Author:Theodore Roosevelt

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    <title>Author:Theodore Roosevelt</title>
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      <text bytes="11712" sha1="69gaq1bohz9xa6dfv1a19tuvw4e4b9f" xml:space="preserve">{{author
 | firstname    = Theodore
 | lastname     = Roosevelt
 | last_initial = Ro
 | description  = American politician; 26th and youngest president of the United States (1901–1909)  {{media|key = y |type = spoken}}
|portal=Presidents of the United States
 }}

==Works==
* [[The Naval War of 1812]], 2 volumes (1882) {{IA small link|navalwarof1812mo00theo}}, {{ssl|The Naval War of 1812.pdf}}
* [[Hunting Trips of a Ranchman]], (1885)
* [[Hunting Trips on the Prairie]], (Companion volume to that above, 1885)
* [[Life of Thomas Hart Benton]], (1887)
* [[Ranch Life and the Hunting Trail]], (1888)
* [[Essays on Practical Politics]], (1888)
* [[Life of Gouverneur Morris]], (1888) {{IA small link|gouverneurmorris00roosuoft}}
* [[The Winning of the West]], 6 volumes. (1889–1896) {{IA small link|winningofwest01roos|vol. 1}}
* [[New York (Roosevelt)|New York]], (Historic Towns Series, 1891)
* [[The Wilderness Hunter]], (1893)
* [[Hunting the Grisly]], (Companion volume to that above, 1893)
* [[Hero Tales from American History]], (1895) with [[Author:Henry Cabot Lodge|Henry Cabot Lodge]]
* [[Trail and Camp Fire]], (1896) with [[Author:George Bird Grinnell|G. B. Grinnell]]
* [[Hunting in Many Lands]], (1896) with G. B. Grinnell
* [[American Ideals]], (1897)
* [[Administration—Civil Service]], (1898)
* [[The Rough Riders]], (1899)
* {{Bird-Lore link|A Letter from Governor Roosevelt|01|2}}
* [[Life of Oliver Cromwell]], (1900)
* ''[[The Strenuous Life (Roosevelt)|The Strenuous Life]]'', (1900)
** [[The Strenuous Life]], Speech before ''The Hamilton Club'', Chicago, 10 April 1899.
** [[Expansion and Peace]], Published in the ''Independent'', 21 December 1899.
** [[Latitude and Longitude Among Reformers]], Published in ''The Century'', June 1900.
** [[Fellow-Feeling as Political Factor]], Published in ''The Century'', January 1900.
** [[Civic Helpfulness]], Published in ''The Century'', October 1900.
** [[Character &amp; Success]], Published in ''The Outlook'', 31 March 1900.
** [[The Eighth and Ninth Commandments in Politics]], Published in ''The Outlook'', 12 May 1900.
** [[The Best and the Good]], Published in the ''Churchman'', 17 March, 1900.
** [[Promise and Performance]], Published in ''The Outlook'', 28 July 1900.
** [[The American Boy]], Published in ''St. Nicholas'', May 1900.
** [[Military Preparedness and Unpreparedness]], Published in ''The Century'', November 1899.
** [[Admiral Dewey]], Published in ''McClure's Magazine'', October 1899.
** [[Grant]], Speech delivered at Galena, Illinois, 27 April 1900.
** [[The Two Americas]], Speech at the formal opening of the Pan-American Exposition, Buffalo, 20 May, 1901.
** [[Manhood and Statehood]], Address at the quarter-centennial celebration of Colorado statehood, Colorado Springs, 2 August 1901.
** [[Brotherhood and the Heroic Virtues]], Address at the Veterans' Reunion, Burlington, Vermont, 5 September, 1901.
** [[National Duties]], Address at the Minnesota State Fair, 2 September 1901.
** [[The Labor Question]], At the Chicago Labor Day Picnic, 3 September 1900.
** [[Christian Citizenship]], Address before the Young Men's Christian Association, Carnegie Hall, New York, 30 December 1900.
* ''[[History as Literature, and Other Essays]]'', (1913)
* [[Theodore Roosevelt: An Autobiography]] (1913) {{ssl|Theodore Roosevelt - An Autobiography.pdf}}
* ''[[Through the Brazilian Wilderness]]'' (1914) also {{ssl|Index:Through the Brazilian Wilderness by Theodore Roosevelt (1925).djvu}}
* &quot;[[The Book of the Homeless/Introduction|Introduction]]&quot;, in ''[[Book of the Homeless]]'' (1916)

===Inaugural address===
* [[Theodore Roosevelt's Inaugural Address]] (4 March 1905)

===State of the Union addresses===
* [[Theodore Roosevelt's First State of the Union Address|First State of the Union address]] (3 December 1901)
* [[Theodore Roosevelt's Second State of the Union Address|Second State of the Union address]] (2 December 1902)
* [[Theodore Roosevelt's Third State of the Union Address|Third State of the Union address]] (7 December 1903)
* [[Theodore Roosevelt's Fourth State of the Union Address|Fourth State of the Union address]] (6 December 1904)
* [[Theodore Roosevelt's Fifth State of the Union Address|Fifth State of the Union address]] (5 December 1905)
* [[Theodore Roosevelt's Sixth State of the Union Address|Sixth State of the Union address]] (3 December 1906)
* [[Theodore Roosevelt's Seventh State of the Union Address|Seventh State of the Union address]] (3 December 1907)
* [[Theodore Roosevelt's Eighth State of the Union Address|Eighth State of the Union address]] (8 December 1908)

===Articles and speeches===
* [[The Duties of American Citizenship]], (1883)
* [[Professionalism in Sports]], (1890)
* [[Practical Work in Politics]], (1894)
* [[What Americanism Means]], (1894)
* [[Resignation letter (Roosevelt)|Resignation letter]] (17 April 1897)
* [[Col. Roosevelt's Reports]] (1898)
* [[The Naval War of 1812]], (1900) {{IA small link|navalwarof181200roos}}
* [[Proclamation 503]], Reserving Lands in Porto Rico for Public Uses, (30 June 1903)
* [[Strength &amp; Decency]], address at the quarterly meeting of the Society of the Holy Name of Brooklyn and Long Island, Oyster Bay, New York, 16 August 1903.
* [[Roosevelt Corollary]] (1904)
* [[The Square Deal]], an address delivered in Syracuse, New York, 7 September 1903.
* [[Roosevelt's Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech|Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech]] (1906)
* [[The Man with the Muck Rake]], (1906)
* [[Sons of the Puritans]], (1907)
* [[Where We Can Work With Socialists]], (1909)
* [[Where We Cannot Work With Socialists]], (1909)
* [[African Game Trails]], (1910)
* [[Citizenship in a Republic]] (The Man in the Arena), Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, France, 23 April 1910.
* [[International Peace]], (1910)
* [[The New Nationalism]], (1910)
* [[Nationalism and Popular Rule]], (1911)
* [[Duty &amp; Self-Control]], Speech at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, 15 April 1911.
* [[A Charter of Democracy]], Ohio, 21 February 1912
* [[The Right of the People to Rule]], address at Carnegie Hall, New York, 20 March 1912; [[The Right of the People to Rule (Outlook)|also published in ''The Outlook'']], 23 March 1912. [[Image:Speaker Icon.svg|20px]]
* [[Introduction to The Wisconsin Idea|Introduction to ''The Wisconsin Idea'']], March 1912, Four page introduction for Charles McCarthy's book about Progressivism in Wisconsin
* [[Who is a Progressive?]], April 1912, ''The Outlook''
* &quot;[[Address to the Boys Progressive League]]&quot;, (3 July 1913) ([[:Image:Roosevelt - Address to the Boys Progressive League.ogg|audio of speech on Commons]]) [[Image:Speaker Icon.svg|20px]]
* [[Address by Theodore Roosevelt before the convention of the National Progressive Party in Chicago]], August 1912
* [[Progressive Cause Greater Than Any Individual]], (14 October, 1912), Speech given just after the assassination attempt by John Flammang Schrank.
* [[Democratic Ideals]], (1913)
* [[The World War: Its Tragedies And Its Lessons]], (23 September 1914)
* &quot;[[Address to the Knights of Columbus]]&quot; (12 October 1915)
* [[The League to Enforce Peace]] (February 1917)
* From the [[Foreword (Roosevelt)]] of ''For France'' by [[Charles Hanson Towne]]{{ext scan link|1=http://books.google.com/books?id=jo_NAAAAMAAJ&amp;dq=%22theodore%20roosevelt%22%20%22for%20france%22&amp;as_brr=4&amp;pg=PR9}} (May 1917)
* [[Lincoln and Free Speech]] (May 1918)
* [[Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star/Sedition, a Free Press, and Personal Rule, May 7, 1918|Sedition, a Free Press, and Personal Rule]] (1918)
* [[Lafayette-Marne-Day Address]] (September 16, 1918)

===Other works===
* [[Message of President Theodore Roosevelt nominating William H. Taft of Ohio to be Secretary of War]] (1904)
* [[The Writings of Carl Schurz/From President Roosevelt, September 8th, 1905|Letter to Carl Schurz]] (September 8, 1905)
* [[Theodore Roosevelt to Amos Pinchot]] (1912)
* '''[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}/Executive orders|Executive Orders]]'''
* '''[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}/Presidential Proclamations|Presidential Proclamations]]'''

===Compilations===
*''The Works of Theodore Roosevelt'' (beginning 1897, initially 14 volumes and later expanded to 18) {{ssl|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 01.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 02.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 03.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 04.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 05.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 06.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 07.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 08.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 09.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 10.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 11.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 12.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 13.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 14.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 15.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 16.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 17.pdf|The Works of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 18.pdf}}
*''Presidential Addresses and State Papers of Theodore Roosevelt'' (1910, seven volumes) {{ssl|Presidential Addresses and State Papers of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 01.pdf|Presidential Addresses and State Papers of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 02.pdf|Presidential Addresses and State Papers of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 03.pdf|Presidential Addresses and State Papers of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 04.pdf|Presidential Addresses and State Papers of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 05.pdf|Presidential Addresses and State Papers of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 06.pdf|Presidential Addresses and State Papers of Theodore Roosevelt Volume 07.pdf}}
*''Theodore Roosevelt and His Time Shown in His Letters'' (1920, two volumes) {{ssl|Theodore Roosevelt and His Time Shown in His Letters 01.pdf|Theodore Roosevelt and His Time Shown in His Letters 02.pdf}}

==Works about Roosevelt==
* ''[[Opposition to Roosevelt for the Governorship of New York]]'' by [[Author:Carl Schurz|Carl Schurz]], letter to the New York ''Evening Post'' (October 21, 1898)
* “[[The New York Times/Carl Schurz on Roosevelt|Carl Schurz on Roosevelt]],” ''[[The New York Times]]'', October 23, 1898
* {{Appletons' Link|Roosevelt, Nicholas I.|author=[[Author:Isa Carrington Cabell|Isa Carrington Cabell]]|year=1900}}
* [[Author:William Allen White|William Allen White]], “[[Theodore Roosevelt (White)|Theodore Roosevelt]],” ''[[McClure's Magazine]]'', Volume 18 (November 1901), pp. 40-47
* ''[[Terrible Teddy, the Grizzly King]]'' (1901), a propaganda film
* ''[[American Boys' Life of Theodore Roosevelt]]'' by [[Author:Edward Stratemeyer|Edward Stratemeyer]], 1904
* ''[[Letter to the Parker Independent Clubs]]'' by [[Author:Carl Schurz|Carl Schurz]], 1904
* {{NIE Link|year=1905|Roosevelt, Theodore}}
* [[Men of Mark in America/Volume 1/Theodore Roosevelt|Theodore Roosevelt]] in [[Men of Mark in America/Volume 1|Men of Mark in America]] (Volume 1), 1905
* {{EB1911 Link|Roosevelt, Theodore}}
* “[[The Presidents of the United States, 1789-1914/Theodore Roosevelt|Theodore Roosevelt]]” by [[Author:Owen Wister|Owen Wister]], in ''[[The Presidents of the United States, 1789-1914]]'' (1914)
* [[Utopia or Hell]], ''The Independent'' Editorials (1915)
* {{NSRW Link|Roosevelt, Theodore}}
* [[Author:Leonard Wood|Leonard Wood]], “[[Theodore Roosevelt (Wood)|Theodore Roosevelt]],” 1920
* {{Americana Link|year=1920|Roosevelt, Theodore|author=[[Author:Charles J. Bonaparte|Charles J. Bonaparte]]}}
* {{Collier's Link|Roosevelt, Theodore (elder)}}
* {{EB1922 Link|Roosevelt, Theodore}}


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  <page>
    <title>Author:James Fenimore Cooper</title>
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      <text bytes="7416" sha1="b95isw1z8xt1hev2q7upso7g6xxikcj" xml:space="preserve">{{author
 | firstname    = James Fenimore
 | lastname     = Cooper
 | last_initial = Co
 | description  = American writer of the early 19th century
 }}

==Works==
* Cooper's Works 1855 {{IAl|coopersworks01bryagoog|vol 1}}, {{IAl|coopersworks02bryagoog|vol 2}}, {{IAl|coopersworks03bryagoog|vol 3}}, {{IAl|coopersworks04bryagoog|vol 4}}, {{IAl|coopersworks05bryagoog|vol 5}}, {{IAl|coopersworks06bryagoog|vol 6}}, {{IAl|coopersworks07bryagoog|vol 7}}, {{IAl|coopersworks08bryagoog|vol 8}}, {{IAl|coopersworks09bryagoog|vol 9}}, {{IAl|coopersworks10bryagoog|vol 10}}, {{IAl|coopersworks11bryagoog|vol 11}}, {{IAl|coopersworks12bryagoog|vol 12}}, {{IAl|coopersworks13bryagoog|vol 13}}, {{IAl|coopersworks14bryagoog|vol 14}}, {{IAl|coopersworks15bryagoog|vol 15}}, {{IAl|coopersworks16bryagoog|vol 16}}, {{IAl|coopersworks17bryagoog|vol 17}}, {{IAl|coopersworks18bryagoog|vol 18}}, {{IAl|coopersworks19bryagoog|vol 19}}, {{IAl|coopersworks20bryagoog|vol 20}}, {{IAl|coopersworks21bryagoog|vol 21}}, {{IAl|coopersworks22bryagoog|vol 22}}, {{IAl|coopersworks23bryagoog|vol 23}}, {{IAl|coopersworks24bryagoog|vol 24}}

===Novels===
*''[[Precaution|Precaution: A Novel]]'' (1820)
*''[[The Spy (Cooper)|The Spy]]: A Tale of the Neutral Ground'', 1821
*''[[The Pioneers (Cooper)|The Pioneers: or The Sources of the Susquehanna]]'', 1823 {{IA small links|pioneersorsource01coopric|pioneersorsource01coopric}}
** Volume 1 - {{small scan link|Pioneersorsource01cooprich.djvu}}
** Volume 2 - {{Small scan link|Pioneersorsource02cooprich.djvu}}
** [[The Pioneers (Cooper)/Introduction (1832)|Introduction (1832)]]
*''[[The Pilot (Cooper)|The Pilot: A Tale of the Sea]]'', 1823
*''[[Lionel Lincoln|Lionel Lincoln: or The Leaguer of Boston]]'', 1825
*''[[The Last of the Mohicans]]'', 1826
** First American Edition {{ssl|The last of the Mohicans (1826 American Volume 1).pdf|The last of the Mohicans (1826 American Volume 2 State B).pdf}}
** First English Edition  {{ssl|The_last_of_the_Mohicans_(1826_Volume_1).djvu}} {{ssl|The_last_of_the_Mohicans_(1826_Volume_2).djvu}} {{ssl|The_last_of_the_Mohicans_(1826_Volume_3).djvu}}
*''[[The Prairie (Cooper)|The Prairie]]'', 1827
*''[[The Red Rover|The Red Rover: A Tale]]'', 1828
*''[[The Wept of Wish-ton-Wish|The Wept of Wish-ton-Wish: A Tale]]'', 1829
*''[[The Water-Witch|The Water-Witch: or the Skimmer of the Seas]]'', 1830
*''[[The Bravo|The Bravo: A Tale]]'', 1831
*''[[The Heidenmauer|The Heidenmauer: or, The Benedictines, A Legend of the Rhine]]'', 1832
*''[[The Headsman: The Abbaye des Vignerons]]'', 1833
*''[[The Monikins]]'', 1835
*''[[Homeward Bound|Homeward Bound: or The Chase: A Tale of the Sea]]'', 1838
*''[[Home as Found]]'', 1838
*''[[The Pathfinder]]'', 1840
*''[[Mercedes of Castile|Mercedes of Castile: or, The Voyage to Cathay]]'', 1840
*''[[The Deerslayer]]'', 1841
*''[[The Two Admirals]]'', 1842
*''[[The Wing-and-Wing|The Wing-and-Wing: le Le Feu-Follet]]'', 1842
*''[[Autobiography of a Pocket-Handkerchief]]'', 1843
*''[[Wyandotté|Wyandotté: or The Hutted Knoll]]''id=eaf073v1&amp;data=/texts/eaf/browse&amp;tag=public], 1843
*''[[Afloat and Ashore|Afloat and Ashore: or The Adventures of Miles Wallingford. A Sea Tale]]'', 1844
*''[[Miles Wallingford|Miles Wallingford: Sequel to Afloat and Ashore]]'', 1844
*''[[Satanstoe|Satanstoe: or The Littlepage Manuscripts, a Tale of the Colony]]'', 1845
*''[[The Chainbearer|The Chainbearer; or, The Littlepage Manuscripts]]'', 1845
*''[[The Redskins|The Redskins; or, Indian and Injin: Being the Conclusion of the Littlepage Manuscripts]]'', 1846
*''[[The Crater|The Crater; or, Vulcan's Peak: A Tale of the Pacific]]'' 
** {{Small scan link|The crater; or, Vulcan's peak.djvu}}
*''[[Jack Tier|Jack Tier: or the Florida Reefs]]'', 1848
*''[[The Oak Openings|The Oak Openings: or the Bee-Hunter]]'', 1848
*''[[The Sea Lions|The Sea Lions: The Lost Sealers]]'', 1849
*''[[The Ways of the Hour]]'', 1850

===Short stories===
*''[[Tales for Fifteen|Tales for Fifteen, or, Imagination and Heart]]''
*&quot;[[No Steamboats]]&quot;, 1832
* &quot;An Evening of Visits&quot; in ''Bentley's Miscellany'', Vol. I, No. 1, 1837 {{small scan link|Bentley's Miscellany 1837-01- Vol 1 (IA sim bentleys-miscellany 1837-01 1).pdf}}
*&quot;[[The Lake Gun]]&quot;, 1851

===Play===
*''[[Upside Down|Upside Down: or Philosophy in Petticoats]]'', 1850

===Non-fiction===
*''[[Notions of the Americans|Notions of the Americans: Picked up by a Travelling Bachelor]]'', 1828
*[[Letter to General Lafayette]], 1830
*[[A Letter to His Countrymen]], 1834
*''[[A Residence in France|A Residence in France: With an Excursion Up the Rhine, and a Second Visit to Switzerland]]'', 1836
*[[Gleanings in Europe]], 1838
*[[The Chronicles of Cooperstown]], 1838
*''[[The American Democrat]]'' or Hints on the Social and Civic Relations of the United States of America, 1838
*[[Lives of Distinguished American Naval Officers]], 1846
* [[New York (Cooper)|New York: or The Towns of Manhattan]], 1851
* [[The History of the Navy of the United States of America]], 1839
* [[Old Ironsides (Cooper)|Old Ironsides]], 1839, [http://external.oneonta.edu/cooper/texts/ironsides.html ''Old Ironsides''], James Fenimore Cooper Society Website
* [[Ned Myers|Ned Myers: or Life before the Mast]], 1843
* [[The Eclipse (James Fenimore Cooper)|The Eclipse]], 1869

===Unsorted works===
*''[[Richard Dale]]'', 1843
*''[[Proceedings of the Naval Court-Martial in the Case of Alexander Slidell Mackenzie, &amp;c.]]'', 1844

== Works about Cooper ==
* ''[[A Fable for Critics#Cooper|A Fable for Critics]]'' (1848) by [[Author:James Russell Lowell|James Russell Lowell]]
* [[Pages and Pictures from the writings of James Fenimore Cooper]] (1861), by daughter [[Author:Susan Fenimore Cooper|Susan Fenimore Cooper]]
* {{AmCyc Link|Cooper, James Fenimore|author=[[Author:A. K. Fiske|A. K. Fiske]]}}
*[[Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offences]] (1895) by [[Author:Mark Twain|Mark Twain]]
* &quot;[[The American Novel/Chapter 2|James Fenimore Cooper]]&quot; in ''[[The American Novel]]'' (1921) by [[Author:Carl Clinton Van Doren|Carl Van Doren]]
* {{Appletons' Link|Cooper, James Fenimore|year=1900|author=[[Author:Charles Ledyard Norton|Charles Ledyard Norton]]}}
* {{NIE Link|Cooper, James Fenimore|year=1905}}
* {{Nuttall link|Cooper, James Fenimore|C}}
* {{SBDEL Link|Cooper, James Fenimore}}
* {{EB1911 Link|Cooper, James Fenimore}}
* [[James Fenimore Cooper]] (1913), by [[Author:Mary E. Phillips|Mary E. Phillips]] {{OCLC|271127}}
* {{NSRW Link|Cooper, James Fenimore}}
* [[The Cambridge History of American Literature/Book II/Chapter VI#§ 12. James Fenimore Cooper; Youth; Naval Career.|''The Cambridge History of American Literature,'' Fiction I: Brown, Cooper]] (1917-1921)
* {{Americana Link|Cooper, James Fenimore|author=[[Author:L. A. Sherman|L. A. Sherman]]}}
* {{Collier's Link|Cooper, James Fenimore}}

===On his works===
* {{Americana link|Deerslayer, The|author=[[Author:Carl Van Doren|Carl Van Doren]]}}
* {{NSRW link|Last of the Mohicans, The}}
* {{Americana link|Last of the Mohicans, The|author=[[Author:Carl Van Doren|Carl Van Doren]]}}
* {{Americana link|Pathfinder, The|author=[[Author:Carl Van Doren|Carl Van Doren]]}}
* {{Americana link|Pilot, The|author=[[Author:Carl Van Doren|Carl Van Doren]]}}
* {{NIE link|Prairie, The}}
* {{Americana link|Spy, The|author=[[Author:Carl Van Doren|Carl Van Doren]]}}

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  <page>
    <title>The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym/Chapter 14</title>
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 | title    = [[../]]
 | author   = Edgar Allan Poe
 | section  = Chapter 14
 | previous = [[../Chapter 13|Chapter 13.]]
 | next     = [[../Chapter 15|Chapter 15.]]
 | notes    = 
}}

The Jane Guy was a fine-looking topsail schooner of a hundred and eighty tons burden. She was unusually sharp in the bows, and on a wind, in moderate weather, the fastest sailer I have ever seen. Her qualities, however, as a rough sea-boat, were not so good, and her draught of water was by far too great for the trade to which she was destined. For this peculiar service, a larger vessel, and one of a light proportionate draught, is desirable—say a vessel of from three hundred to three hundred and fifty tons. She should be bark-rigged, and in other respects of a different construction from the usual South Sea ships. It is absolutely necessary that she should be well armed. She should have, say ten or twelve twelve-pound carronades, and two or three long twelves, with brass blunderbusses, and water-tight arm-chests for each top. Her anchors and cables should be of far greater strength than is required for any other species of trade, and, above all, her crew should be numerous and efficient—not less, for such a vessel as I have described, than fifty or sixty able-bodied men. The Jane Guy had a crew of thirty-five, all able seamen, besides the captain and mate, but she was not altogether as well armed or otherwise equipped, as a navigator acquainted with the difficulties and dangers of the trade could have desired. 

Captain Guy was a gentleman of great urbanity of manner, and of considerable experience in the southern traffic, to which he had devoted a great portion of his life. He was deficient, however, in energy, and, consequently, in that spirit of enterprise which is here so absolutely requisite. He was part owner of the vessel in which he sailed, and was invested with discretionary powers to cruise in the South Seas for any cargo which might come most readily to hand. He had on board, as usual in such voyages, beads, looking-glasses, tinder-works, axes, hatchets, saws, adzes, planes, chisels, gouges, gimlets, files, spokeshaves, rasps, hammers, nails, knives, scissors, razors, needles, thread, crockery-ware, calico, trinkets, and other similar articles. 

The schooner sailed from Liverpool on the tenth of July, crossed the Tropic of Cancer on the twenty-fifth, in longitude twenty degrees west, and reached Sal, one of the Cape Verd islands, on the twenty-ninth, where she took in salt and other necessaries for the voyage. On the third of August, she left the Cape Verds and steered southwest, stretching over toward the coast of Brazil, so as to cross the equator between the meridians of twenty-eight and thirty degrees west longitude. This is the course usually taken by vessels bound from Europe to the Cape of Good Hope, or by that route to the East Indies. By proceeding thus they avoid the calms and strong contrary currents which continually prevail on the coast of Guinea, while, in the end, it is found to be the shortest track, as westerly winds are never wanting afterward by which to reach the Cape. It was Captain Guy's intention to make his first stoppage at Kerguelen's Land—I hardly know for what reason. On the day we were picked up the schooner was off Cape St. Roque, in longitude thirty-one degrees west; so that, when found, we had drifted probably, from north to south, ''not less than five-and-twenty degrees''! 

On board the Jane Guy we were treated with all the kindness our distressed situation demanded. In about a fortnight, during which time we continued steering to the southeast, with gentle breezes and fine weather, both Peters and myself recovered entirely from the effects of our late privation and dreadful sufferings, and we began to remember what had passed rather as a frightful dream from which we had been happily awakened, than as events which had taken place in sober and naked reality. I have since found that this species of partial oblivion is usually brought about by sudden transition, whether from joy to sorrow or from sorrow to joy—the degree of forgetfulness being proportioned to the degree of difference in the exchange. Thus, in my own case, I now feel it impossible to realize the full extent of the misery which I endured during the days spent upon the hulk. The incidents are remembered, but not the feelings which the incidents elicited at the time of their occurrence. I only know, that when they did occur, I ''then'' thought human nature could sustain nothing more of agony. 

We continued our voyage for some weeks without any incidents of greater moment than the occasional meeting with whaling-ships, and more frequently with the black or right whale, so called in contradistinction to the spermaceti. These, however, were chiefly found south of the twenty-fifth parallel. On the sixteenth of September, being in the vicinity of the Cape of Good Hope, the schooner encountered her first gale of any violence since leaving Liverpool. In this neighborhood, but more frequently to the south and east of the promontory (we were to the westward), navigators have often to contend with storms from the northward, which rage with great fury. They always bring with them a heavy sea, and one of their most dangerous features is the instantaneous chopping round of the wind, an occurrence almost certain to take place during the greatest force of the gale. A perfect hurricane will be blowing at one moment from the northward or northeast, and in the next not a breath of wind will be felt in that direction, while from the southwest it will come out all at once with a violence almost inconceivable. A bright spot to the southward is the sure forerunner of the change, and vessels are thus enabled to take the proper precautions. 

It was about six in the morning when the blow came on with a white squall, and, as usual, from the northward. By eight it had increased very much, and brought down upon us one of the most tremendous seas I had then ever beheld. Every thing had been made as snug as possible, but the schooner laboured excessively, and gave evidence of her bad qualities as a seaboat, pitching her forecastle under at every plunge and with the greatest difficulty struggling up from one wave before she was buried in another. Just before sunset the bright spot for which we had been on the look-out made its appearance in the southwest, and in an hour afterward we perceived the little headsail we carried flapping listlessly against the mast. In two minutes more, in spite of every preparation, we were hurled on our beam-ends, as if by magic, and a perfect wilderness of foam made a clear breach over us as we lay. The blow from the southwest, however, luckily proved to be nothing more than a squall, and we had the good fortune to right the vessel without the loss of a spar. A heavy cross sea gave us great trouble for a few hours after this, but toward morning we found ourselves in nearly as good condition as before the gale. Captain Guy considered that he had made an escape little less than miraculous. 

On the thirteenth of October we came in sight of Prince Edward's Island, in latitude 46 degrees 53' S., longitude 37 degrees 46' E. Two days afterward we found ourselves near Possession Island, and presently passed the islands of Crozet, in latitude 42 degrees 59' S., longitude 48 degrees E. On the eighteenth we made Kerguelen's or Desolation Island, in the Southern Indian Ocean, and came to anchor in Christmas Harbour, having four fathoms of water. 

This island, or rather group of islands, bears southeast from the Cape of Good Hope, and is distant therefrom nearly eight hundred leagues. It was first discovered in 1772, by the Baron de Kergulen, or Kerguelen, a Frenchman, who, thinking the land to form a portion of an extensive southern continent carried home information to that effect, which produced much excitement at the time. The government, taking the matter up, sent the baron back in the following year for the purpose of giving his new discovery a critical examination, when the mistake was discovered. In 1777, Captain Cook fell in with the same group, and gave to the principal one the name of Desolation Island, a title which it certainly well deserves. Upon approaching the land, however, the navigator might be induced to suppose otherwise, as the sides of most of the hills, from September to March, are clothed with very brilliant verdure. This deceitful appearance is caused by a small plant resembling saxifrage, which is abundant, growing in large patches on a species of crumbling moss. Besides this plant there is scarcely a sign of vegetation on the island, if we except some coarse rank grass near the harbor, some lichen, and a shrub which bears resemblance to a cabbage shooting into seed, and which has a bitter and acrid taste. 

The face of the country is hilly, although none of the hills can be called lofty. Their tops are perpetually covered with snow. There are several harbors, of which Christmas Harbour is the most convenient. It is the first to be met with on the northeast side of the island after passing Cape Francois, which forms the northern shore, and, by its peculiar shape, serves to distinguish the harbour. Its projecting point terminates in a high rock, through which is a large hole, forming a natural arch. The entrance is in latitude 48 degrees 40' S., longitude 69 degrees 6' E. Passing in here, good anchorage may be found under the shelter of several small islands, which form a sufficient protection from all easterly winds. Proceeding on eastwardly from this anchorage you come to Wasp Bay, at the head of the harbour. This is a small basin, completely landlocked, into which you can go with four fathoms, and find anchorage in from ten to three, hard clay bottom. A ship might lie here with her best bower ahead all the year round without risk. To the westward, at the head of Wasp Bay, is a small stream of excellent water, easily procured. 

Some seal of the fur and hair species are still to be found on Kerguelen's Island, and sea elephants abound. The feathered tribes are discovered in great numbers. Penguins are very plenty, and of these there are four different kinds. The royal penguin, so called from its size and beautiful plumage, is the largest. The upper part of the body is usually gray, sometimes of a lilac tint; the under portion of the purest white imaginable. The head is of a glossy and most brilliant black, the feet also. The chief beauty of plumage, however, consists in two broad stripes of a gold color, which pass along from the head to the breast. The bill is long, and either pink or bright scarlet. These birds walk erect; with a stately carriage. They carry their heads high with their wings drooping like two arms, and, as their tails project from their body in a line with the legs, the resemblance to a human figure is very striking, and would be apt to deceive the spectator at a casual glance or in the gloom of the evening. The royal penguins which we met with on Kerguelen's Land were rather larger than a goose. The other kinds are the macaroni, the jackass, and the rookery penguin. These are much smaller, less beautiful in plumage, and different in other respects. 

Besides the penguin many other birds are here to be found, among which may be mentioned sea-hens, blue peterels, teal, ducks, Port Egmont hens, shags, Cape pigeons, the nelly, sea swallows, terns, sea gulls, Mother Carey's chickens, Mother Carey's geese, or the great peterel, and, lastly, the albatross. 

The great peterel is as large as the common albatross, and is carnivorous. It is frequently called the break-bones, or osprey peterel. They are not at all shy, and, when properly cooked, are palatable food. In flying they sometimes sail very close to the surface of the water, with the wings expanded, without appearing to move them in the least degree, or make any exertion with them whatever. 

The albatross is one of the largest and fiercest of the South Sea birds. It is of the gull species, and takes its prey on the wing, never coming on land except for the purpose of breeding. Between this bird and the penguin the most singular friendship exists. Their nests are constructed with great uniformity upon a plan concerted between the two species—that of the albatross being placed in the centre of a little square formed by the nests of four penguins. Navigators have agreed in calling an assemblage of such encampments a rookery. These rookeries have been often described, but as my readers may not all have seen these descriptions, and as I shall have occasion hereafter to speak of the penguin and albatross, it will not be amiss to say something here of their mode of building and living. 

When the season for incubation arrives, the birds assemble in vast numbers, and for some days appear to be deliberating upon the proper course to be pursued. At length they proceed to action. A level piece of ground is selected, of suitable extent, usually comprising three or four acres, and situated as near the sea as possible, being still beyond its reach. The spot is chosen with reference to its evenness of surface, and that is preferred which is the least encumbered with stones. This matter being arranged, the birds proceed, with one accord, and actuated apparently by one mind, to trace out, with mathematical accuracy, either a square or other parallelogram, as may best suit the nature of the ground, and of just sufficient size to accommodate easily all the birds assembled, and no more- in this particular seeming determined upon preventing the access of future stragglers who have not participated in the labor of the encampment. One side of the place thus marked out runs parallel with the water's edge, and is left open for ingress or egress. 

Having defined the limits of the rookery, the colony now begin to clear it of every species of rubbish, picking up stone by stone, and carrying them outside of the lines, and close by them, so as to form a wall on the three inland sides. Just within this wall a perfectly level and smooth walk is formed, from six to eight feet wide, and extending around the encampment—thus serving the purpose of a general promenade. 

The next process is to partition out the whole area into small squares exactly equal in size. This is done by forming narrow paths, very smooth, and crossing each other at right angles throughout the entire extent of the rookery. At each intersection of these paths the nest of an albatross is constructed, and a penguin's nest in the centre of each square—thus every penguin is surrounded by four albatrosses, and each albatross by a like number of penguins. The penguin's nest consists of a hole in the earth, very shallow, being only just of sufficient depth to keep her single egg from rolling. The albatross is somewhat less simple in her arrangements, erecting a hillock about a foot high and two in diameter. This is made of earth, seaweed, and shells. On its summit she builds her nest. 

The birds take especial care never to leave their nests unoccupied for an instant during the period of incubation, or, indeed, until the young progeny are sufficiently strong to take care of themselves. While the male is absent at sea in search of food, the female remains on duty, and it is only upon the return of her partner that she ventures abroad. The eggs are never left uncovered at all—while one bird leaves the nest the other nestling in by its side. This precaution is rendered necessary by the thieving propensities prevalent in the rookery, the inhabitants making no scruple to purloin each other's eggs at every good opportunity. 

Although there are some rookeries in which the penguin and albatross are the sole population, yet in most of them a variety of oceanic birds are to be met with, enjoying all the privileges of citizenship, and scattering their nests here and there, wherever they can find room, never interfering, however, with the stations of the larger species. The appearance of such encampments, when seen from a distance, is exceedingly singular. The whole atmosphere just above the settlement is darkened with the immense number of the albatross (mingled with the smaller tribes) which are continually hovering over it, either going to the ocean or returning home. At the same time a crowd of penguins are to be observed, some passing to and fro in the narrow alleys, and some marching with the military strut so peculiar to them, around the general promenade ground which encircles the rookery. In short, survey it as we will, nothing can be more astonishing than the spirit of reflection evinced by these feathered beings, and nothing surely can be better calculated to elicit reflection in every well-regulated human intellect. 

On the morning after our arrival in Christmas Harbour the chief mate, Mr. Patterson, took the boats, and (although it was somewhat early in the season) went in search of seal, leaving the captain and a young relation of his on a point of barren land to the westward, they having some business, whose nature I could not ascertain, to transact in the interior of the island. Captain Guy took with him a bottle, in which was a sealed letter, and made his way from the point on which he was set on shore toward one of the highest peaks in the place. It is probable that his design was to leave the letter on that height for some vessel which he expected to come after him. As soon as we lost sight of him we proceeded (Peters and myself being in the mate's boat) on our cruise around the coast, looking for seal. In this business we were occupied about three weeks, examining with great care every nook and corner, not only of Kerguelen's Land, but of the several small islands in the vicinity. Our labours, however, were not crowned with any important success. We saw a great many fur seal, but they were exceedingly shy, and with the greatest exertions, we could only procure three hundred and fifty skins in all. Sea elephants were abundant, especially on the western coast of the mainland, but of these we killed only twenty, and this with great difficulty. On the smaller islands we discovered a good many of the hair seal, but did not molest them. We returned to the schooner on the eleventh, where we found Captain Guy and his nephew, who gave a very bad account of the interior, representing it as one of the most dreary and utterly barren countries in the world. They had remained two nights on the island, owing to some misunderstanding, on the part of the second mate, in regard to the sending a jollyboat from the schooner to take them off.</text>
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  <page>
    <title>The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym/Chapter 16</title>
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 | title    = [[../]]
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 | previous = [[../Chapter 15|Chapter 15.]]
 | next     = [[../Chapter 17|Chapter 17.]]
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It had been Captain Guy's original intention, after satisfying himself about the Auroras, to proceed through the Strait of Magellan, and up along the western coast of Patagonia; but information received at Tristan d'Acunha induced him to steer to the southward, in the hope of falling in with some small islands said to lie about the parallel of 60 degrees S., longitude 41 degrees 20' W. In the event of his not discovering these lands, he designed, should the season prove favourable, to push on toward the pole. Accordingly, on the twelfth of December, we made sail in that direction. On the eighteenth we found ourselves about the station indicated by Glass, and cruised for three days in that neighborhood without finding any traces of the islands he had mentioned. On the twenty-first, the weather being unusually pleasant, we again made sail to the southward, with the resolution of penetrating in that course as far as possible. Before entering upon this portion of my narrative, it may be as well, for the information of those readers who have paid little attention to the progress of discovery in these regions, to give some brief account of the very few attempts at reaching the southern pole which have hitherto been made. 

That of Captain Cook was the first of which we have any distinct account. In 1772 he sailed to the south in the Resolution, accompanied by Lieutenant Furneaux in the Adventure. In December he found himself as far as the fifty-eighth parallel of south latitude, and in longitude 26 degrees 57' E. Here he met with narrow fields of ice, about eight or ten inches thick, and running northwest and southeast. This ice was in large cakes, and usually it was packed so closely that the vessel had great difficulty in forcing a passage. At this period Captain Cook supposed, from the vast number of birds to be seen, and from other indications, that he was in the near vicinity of land. He kept on to the southward, the weather being exceedingly cold, until he reached the sixty-fourth parallel, in longitude 38 degrees 14' W. Here he had mild weather, with gentle breezes, for five days, the thermometer being at thirty-six. In January, 1773, the vessels crossed the Antarctic circle, but did not succeed in penetrating much farther; for upon reaching latitude 67 degrees 15' they found all farther progress impeded by an immense body of ice, extending all along the southern horizon as far as the eye could reach. This ice was of every variety—and some large floes of it, miles in extent, formed a compact mass, rising eighteen or twenty feet above the water. It being late in the season, and no hope entertained of rounding these obstructions, Captain Cook now reluctantly turned to the northward. 

In the November following he renewed his search in the Antarctic. In latitude 59 degrees 40' he met with a strong current setting to the southward. In December, when the vessels were in latitude 67 degrees 31', longitude 142 degrees 54' W., the cold was excessive, with heavy gales and fog. Here also birds were abundant; the albatross, the penguin, and the peterel especially. In latitude 70 degrees 23' some large islands of ice were encountered, and shortly afterward the clouds to the southward were observed to be of a snowy whiteness, indicating the vicinity of field ice. In latitude 71 degrees 10', longitude 106 degrees 54' W., the navigators were stopped, as before, by an immense frozen expanse, which filled the whole area of the southern horizon. The northern edge of this expanse was ragged and broken, so firmly wedged together as to be utterly impassible, and extending about a mile to the southward. Behind it the frozen surface was comparatively smooth for some distance, until terminated in the extreme background by gigantic ranges of ice mountains, the one towering above the other. Captain Cook concluded that this vast field reached the southern pole or was joined to a continent. Mr. J. N. Reynolds, whose great exertions and perseverance have at length succeeded in getting set on foot a national expedition, partly for the purpose of exploring these regions, thus speaks of the attempt of the Resolution. &quot;We are not surprised that Captain Cook was unable to go beyond 71 degrees 10', but we are astonished that he did attain that point on the meridian of 106 degrees 54' west longitude. Palmer's Land lies south of the Shetland, latitude sixty-four degrees, and tends to the southward and westward farther than any navigator has yet penetrated. Cook was standing for this land when his progress was arrested by the ice; which, we apprehend, must always be the case in that point, and so early in the season as the sixth of January—and we should not be surprised if a portion of the icy mountains described was attached to the main body of Palmer's Land, or to some other portions of land lying farther to the southward and westward.&quot; 

In 1803, Captains Kreutzenstern and Lisiausky were dispatched by Alexander of Russia for the purpose of circumnavigating the globe. In endeavouring to get south, they made no farther than 59 degrees 58', in longitude 70 degrees 15' W. They here met with strong currents setting eastwardly. Whales were abundant, but they saw no ice. In regard to this voyage, Mr. Reynolds observes that, if Kreutzenstern had arrived where he did earlier in the season, he must have encountered ice—it was March when he reached the latitude specified. The winds, prevailing, as they do, from the southward and westward, had carried the floes, aided by currents, into that icy region bounded on the north by Georgia, east by Sandwich Land and the South Orkneys, and west by the South Shetland islands. 

In 1822, Captain James Weddell, of the British navy, with two very small vessels, penetrated farther to the south than any previous navigator, and this, too, without encountering extraordinary difficulties. He states that although he was frequently hemmed in by ice ''before'' reaching the seventy-second parallel, yet, upon attaining it, not a particle was to be discovered, and that, upon arriving at the latitude of 74 degrees 15', no fields, and only three islands of ice were visible. It is somewhat remarkable that, although vast flocks of birds were seen, and other usual indications of land, and although, south of the Shetlands, unknown coasts were observed from the masthead tending southwardly, Weddell discourages the idea of land existing in the polar regions of the south. 

On the 11th of January, 1823, Captain Benjamin Morrell, of the American schooner Wasp, sailed from Kerguelen's Land with a view of penetrating as far south as possible. On the first of February he found himself in latitude 64 degrees 52' S., longitude 118 degrees 27' E. The following passage is extracted from his journal of that date. &quot;The wind soon freshened to an eleven-knot breeze, and we embraced this opportunity of making to the west; being however convinced that the farther we went south beyond latitude sixty-four degrees, the less ice was to be apprehended, we steered a little to the southward, until we crossed the Antarctic circle, and were in latitude 69 degrees 15' E. In this latitude there was ''no field ice'', and very few ice islands in sight. 

Under the date of March fourteenth I find also this entry. The sea was now entirely free of field ice, and there were not more than a dozen ice islands in sight. At the same time the temperature of the air and water was at least thirteen degrees higher (more mild) than we had ever found it between the parallels of sixty and sixty-two south. We were now in latitude 70 degrees 14' S., and the temperature of the air was forty-seven, and that of the water forty-four. In this situation I found the variation to be 14 degrees 27' easterly, per azimuth...I have several times passed within the Antarctic circle, on different meridians, and have uniformly found the temperature, both of the air and the water, to become more and more mild the farther I advanced beyond the sixty-fifth degree of south latitude, and that the variation decreases in the same proportion. While north of this latitude, say between sixty and sixty-five south, we frequently had great difficulty in finding a passage for the vessel between the immense and almost innumerable ice islands, some of which were from one to two miles in circumference, and more than five hundred feet above the surface of the water.&quot; 

Being nearly destitute of fuel and water, and without proper instruments, it being also late in the season, Captain Morrell was now obliged to put back, without attempting any further progress to the westward, although an entirely open sea lay before him. He expresses the opinion that, had not these overruling considerations obliged him to retreat, he could have penetrated, if not to the pole itself, at least to the eighty-fifth parallel. I have given his ideas respecting these matters somewhat at length, that the reader may have an opportunity of seeing how far they were borne out by my own subsequent experience. 

In 1831, Captain Briscoe, in the employ of the Messieurs Enderby, whale-ship owners of London, sailed in the brig Lively for the South Seas, accompanied by the cutter Tula. On the twenty-eighth of February, being in latitude 66 degrees 30' S., longitude 47 degrees 31' E., he descried land, and &quot;clearly discovered through the snow the black peaks of a range of mountains running E. S. E.&quot; He remained in this neighbourhood during the whole of the following month, but was unable to approach the coast nearer than within ten leagues, owing to the boisterous state of the weather. Finding it impossible to make further discovery during this season, he returned northward to winter in Van Diemen's Land. 

In the beginning of 1832 he again proceeded southwardly, and on the fourth of February was seen to the southeast in latitude 67 degrees 15' longitude 69 degrees 29' W. This was soon found to be an island near the headland of the country he had first discovered. On the twenty-first of the month he succeeded in landing on the latter, and took possession of it in the name of William IV, calling it Adelaide's Island, in honour of the English queen. These particulars being made known to the Royal Geographical Society of London, the conclusion was drawn by that body &quot;that there is a continuous tract of land extending from 47 degrees 30' E. to 69 degrees 29' W. longitude, running the parallel of from sixty-six to sixty-seven degrees south latitude.&quot; In respect to this conclusion Mr. Reynolds observes: &quot;In the correctness of it we by no means concur; nor do the discoveries of Briscoe warrant any such indifference. It was within these limits that Weddel proceeded south on a meridian to the east of Georgia, Sandwich Land, and the South Orkney and Shetland islands.&quot; My own experience will be found to testify most directly to the falsity of the conclusion arrived at by the society. 

These are the principal attempts which have been made at penetrating to a high southern latitude, and it will now be seen that there remained, previous to the voyage of the Jane, nearly three hundred degrees of longitude in which the Antarctic circle had not been crossed at all. Of course a wide field lay before us for discovery, and it was with feelings of most intense interest that I heard Captain Guy express his resolution of pushing boldly to the southward.</text>
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    <title>The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym/Chapter 17</title>
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We kept our course southwardly for four days after giving up the search for Glass's islands, without meeting with any ice at all. On the twenty-sixth, at noon, we were in latitude 63 degrees 23' S., longitude 41 degrees 25' W. We now saw several large ice islands, and a floe of field ice, not, however, of any great extent. The winds generally blew from the southeast, or the northeast, but were very light. Whenever we had a westerly wind, which was seldom, it was invariably attended with a rain squall. Every day we had more or less snow. The thermometer, on the twenty-seventh stood at thirty-five. 

''January'' 1, 1828.—This day we found ourselves completely hemmed in by the ice, and our prospects looked cheerless indeed. A strong gale blew, during the whole forenoon, from the northeast, and drove large cakes of the drift against the rudder and counter with such violence that we all trembled for the consequences. Toward evening, the gale still blowing with fury, a large field in front separated, and we were enabled, by carrying a press of sail to force a passage through the smaller flakes into some open water beyond. As we approached this space we took in sail by degrees, and having at length got clear, lay-to under a single reefed foresail. 

''January'' 2.—We had now tolerably pleasant weather. At noon we found ourselves in latitude 69 degrees 10' S, longitude 42 degrees 20' W, having crossed the Antarctic circle. Very little ice was to be seen to the southward, although large fields of it lay behind us. This day we rigged some sounding gear, using a large iron pot capable of holding twenty gallons, and a line of two hundred fathoms. We found the current setting to the north, about a quarter of a mile per hour. The temperature of the air was now about thirty-three. Here we found the variation to be 14 degrees 28' easterly, per azimuth. 

''January'' 5.—We had still held on to the southward without any very great impediments. On this morning, however, being in latitude 73 degrees 15' E., longitude 42 degrees 10' W, we were again brought to a stand by an immense expanse of firm ice. We saw, nevertheless, much open water to the southward, and felt no doubt of being able to reach it eventually. Standing to the eastward along the edge of the floe, we at length came to a passage of about a mile in width, through which we warped our way by sundown. The sea in which we now were was thickly covered with ice islands, but had no field ice, and we pushed on boldly as before. The cold did not seem to increase, although we had snow very frequently, and now and then hail squalls of great violence. Immense flocks of the albatross flew over the schooner this day, going from southeast to northwest. 

''January'' 7.—The sea still remained pretty well open, so that we had no difficulty in holding on our course. To the westward we saw some icebergs of incredible size, and in the afternoon passed very near one whose summit could not have been less than four hundred fathoms from the surface of the ocean. Its girth was probably, at the base, three-quarters of a league, and several streams of water were running from crevices in its sides. We remained in sight of this island two days, and then only lost it in a fog. 

''January'' 10.—Early this morning we had the misfortune to lose a man overboard. He was an American named Peter Vredenburgh, a native of New York, and was one of the most valuable hands on board the schooner. In going over the bows his foot slipped, and he fell between two cakes of ice, never rising again. At noon of this day we were in latitude 78 degrees 30', longitude 40 degrees 15' W. The cold was now excessive, and we had hail squalls continually from the northward and eastward. In this direction also we saw several more immense icebergs, and the whole horizon to the eastward appeared to be blocked up with field ice, rising in tiers, one mass above the other. Some driftwood floated by during the evening, and a great quantity of birds flew over, among which were nellies, peterels, albatrosses, and a large bird of a brilliant blue plumage. The variation here, per azimuth, was less than it had been previously to our passing the Antarctic circle. 

''January'' 12.—Our passage to the south again looked doubtful, as nothing was to be seen in the direction of the pole but one apparently limitless floe, backed by absolute mountains of ragged ice, one precipice of which arose frowningly above the other. We stood to the westward until the fourteenth, in the hope of finding an entrance. 

''January'' 14.—This morning we reached the western extremity of the field which had impeded us, and, weathering it, came to an open sea, without a particle of ice. Upon sounding with two hundred fathoms, we here found a current setting southwardly at the rate of half a mile per hour. The temperature of the air was forty-seven, that of the water thirtyfour. We now sailed to the southward without meeting any interruption of moment until the sixteenth, when, at noon, we were in latitude 81 degrees 21', longitude 42 degrees W. We here again sounded, and found a current setting still southwardly, and at the rate of three quarters of a mile per hour. The variation per azimuth had diminished, and the temperature of the air was mild and pleasant, the thermometer being as high as fifty-one. At this period not a particle of ice was to be discovered. All hands on board now felt certain of attaining the pole. 

''January'' 17.—This day was full of incident. Innumerable flights of birds flew over us from the southward, and several were shot from the deck, one of them, a species of pelican, proved to be excellent eating. About midday a small floe of ice was seen from the masthead off the larboard bow, and upon it there appeared to be some large animal. As the weather was good and nearly calm, Captain Guy ordered out two of the boats to see what it was. Dirk Peters and myself accompanied the mate in the larger boat. Upon coming up with the floe, we perceived that it was in the possession of a gigantic creature of the race of the Arctic bear, but far exceeding in size the largest of these animals. Being well armed, we made no scruple of attacking it at once. Several shots were fired in quick succession, the most of which took effect, apparently, in the head and body. Nothing discouraged, however, the monster threw himself from the ice, and swam with open jaws, to the boat in which were Peters and myself. Owing to the confusion which ensued among us at this unexpected turn of the adventure, no person was ready immediately with a second shot, and the bear had actually succeeded in getting half his vast bulk across our gunwale, and seizing one of the men by the small of his back, before any efficient means were taken to repel him. In this extremity nothing but the promptness and agility of Peters saved us from destruction. Leaping upon the back of the huge beast, he plunged the blade of a knife behind the neck, reaching the spinal marrow at a blow. The brute tumbled into the sea lifeless, and without a struggle, rolling over Peters as he fell. The latter soon recovered himself, and a rope being thrown him, returned in triumph to the schooner, towing our trophy behind us. This bear, upon admeasurement, proved to be full fifteen feet in his greatest length. His wool was perfectly white, and very coarse, curling tightly. The eyes were of a blood red, and larger than those of the Arctic bear, the snout also more rounded, rather resembling the snout of the bulldog. The meat was tender, but excessively rank and fishy, although the men devoured it with avidity, and declared it excellent eating. 

Scarcely had we got our prize alongside, when the man at the masthead gave the joyful shout of &quot;''land on the starboard bow!''&quot; All hands were now upon the alert, and, a breeze springing up very opportunely from the northward and eastward, we were soon close in with the coast. It proved to be a low rocky islet, of about a league in circumference, and altogether destitute of vegetation, if we except a species of prickly pear. In approaching it from the northward, a singular ledge of rock is seen projecting into the sea, and bearing a strong resemblance to corded bales of cotton. Around this ledge to the westward is a small bay, at the bottom of which our boats effected a convenient landing. 

It did not take us long to explore every portion of the island, but, with one exception, we found nothing worthy of our observation. In the southern extremity, we picked up near the shore, half buried in a pile of loose stones, a piece of wood, which seemed to have formed the prow of a canoe. There had been evidently some attempt at carving upon it, and Captain Guy fancied that he made out the figure of a tortoise, but the resemblance did not strike me very forcibly. Besides this prow, if such it were, we found no other token that any living creature had ever been here before. Around the coast we discovered occasional small floes of ice- but these were very few. The exact situation of the islet (to which Captain Guy gave the name of Bennet's Islet, in honour of his partner in the ownership of the schooner) is 82 degrees 50' S. latitude, 42 degrees 20' W. longitude. 

We had now advanced to the southward more than eight degrees farther than any previous navigators, and the sea still lay perfectly open before us. We found, too, that the variation uniformly decreased as we proceeded, and, what was still more surprising, that the temperature of the air, and latterly of the water, became milder. The weather might even be called pleasant, and we had a steady but very gentle breeze always from some northern point of the compass. The sky was usually clear, with now and then a slight appearance of thin vapour in the southern horizon- this, however, was invariably of brief duration. Two difficulties alone presented themselves to our view; we were getting short of fuel, and symptoms of scurvy had occurred among several of the crew. These considerations began to impress upon Captain Guy the necessity of returning, and he spoke of it frequently. For my own part, confident as I was of soon arriving at land of some description upon the course we were pursuing, and having every reason to believe, from present appearances, that we should not find it the sterile soil met with in the higher Arctic latitudes, I warmly pressed upon him the expediency of persevering, at least for a few days longer, in the direction we were now holding. So tempting an opportunity of solving the great problem in regard to an Antarctic continent had never yet been afforded to man, and I confess that I felt myself bursting with indignation at the timid and ill-timed suggestions of our commander. I believe, indeed, that what I could not refrain from saying to him on this head had the effect of inducing him to push on. While, therefore, I cannot but lament the most unfortunate and bloody events which immediately arose from my advice, I must still be allowed to feel some degree of gratification at having been instrumental, however remotely, in opening to the eye of science one of the most intensely exciting secrets which has ever engrossed its attention.</text>
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    <title>The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym/Chapter 18</title>
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 | title    = [[../]]
 | author   = Edgar Allan Poe
 | section  = Chapter 18
 | previous = [[../Chapter 17|Chapter 17.]]
 | next     = [[../Chapter 19|Chapter 19.]]
 | notes    = 
}}

January 18.—This morning&lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;/&gt; we continued to the southward, with the same pleasant weather as before. The sea was entirely smooth, the air tolerably warm and from the northeast, the temperature of the water fifty-three. We now again got our sounding-gear in order, and, with a hundred and fifty fathoms of line, found the current setting toward the pole at the rate of a mile an hour. This constant tendency to the southward, both in the wind and current, caused some degree of speculation, and even of alarm, in different quarters of the schooner, and I saw distinctly that no little impression had been made upon the mind of Captain Guy. He was exceedingly sensitive to ridicule, however, and I finally succeeded in laughing him out of his apprehensions. The variation was now very trivial. In the course of the day we saw several large whales of the right species, and innumerable flights of the albatross passed over the vessel. We also picked up a bush, full of red berries, like those of the hawthorn, and the carcass of a singular-looking land-animal. It was three feet in length, and but six inches in height, with four very short legs, the feet armed with long claws of a brilliant scarlet, and resembling coral in substance. The body was covered with a straight silky hair, perfectly white. The tail was peaked like that of a rat, and about a foot and a half long. The head resembled a cat's, with the exception of the ears—these were flopped like the ears of a dog. The ''teeth'' were of the same brilliant scarlet as the claws. 

''January'' 19.—To-day, being in latitude 83 degrees 20', longitude 43 degrees 5' W. (the sea being of an extraordinarily dark colour), we again saw land from the masthead, and, upon a closer scrutiny, found it to be one of a group of very large islands. The shore was precipitous, and the interior seemed to be well wooded, a circumstance which occasioned us great joy. In about four hours from our first discovering the land we came to anchor in ten fathoms, sandy bottom, a league from the coast, as a high surf, with strong ripples here and there, rendered a nearer approach of doubtful expediency. The two largest boats were now ordered out, and a party, well armed (among whom were Peters and myself), proceeded to look for an opening in the reef which appeared to encircle the island. After searching about for some time, we discovered an inlet, which we were entering, when we saw four large canoes put off from the shore, filled with men who seemed to be well armed. We waited for them to come up, and, as they moved with great rapidity, they were soon within hail. Captain Guy now held up a white handkerchief on the blade of an oar, when the strangers made a full stop, and commenced a loud jabbering all at once, intermingled with occasional shouts, in which we could distinguish the words ''Anamoo-moo!'' and ''Lama-Lama!'' They continued this for at least half an hour, during which we had a good opportunity of observing their appearance. 

In the four canoes, which might have been fifty feet long and five broad, there were a hundred and ten savages in all. They were about the ordinary stature of Europeans, but of a more muscular and brawny frame. Their complexion a jet black, with thick and long woolly hair. They were clothed in skins of an unknown black animal, shaggy and silky, and made to fit the body with some degree of skill, the hair being inside, except where turned out about the neck, wrists, and ankles. Their arms consisted principally of clubs, of a dark, and apparently very heavy wood. Some spears, however, were observed among them, headed with flint, and a few slings. The bottoms of the canoes were full of black stones about the size of a large egg. 

When they had concluded their harangue (for it was clear they intended their jabbering for such), one of them who seemed to be the chief stood up in the prow of his canoe, and made signs for us to bring our boats alongside of him. This hint we pretended not to understand, thinking it the wiser plan to maintain, if possible, the interval between us, as their number more than quadrupled our own. Finding this to be the case, the chief ordered the three other canoes to hold back, while he advanced toward us with his own. As soon as he came up with us he leaped on board the largest of our boats, and seated himself by the side of Captain Guy, pointing at the same time to the schooner, and repeating the word ''Anamoo-moo!'' and ''Lama-Lama!'' We now put back to the vessel, the four canoes following at a little distance. 

Upon getting alongside, the chief evinced symptoms of extreme surprise and delight, clapping his hands, slapping his thighs and breast, and laughing obstreperously. His followers behind joined in his merriment, and for some minutes the din was so excessive as to be absolutely deafening. Quiet being at length restored, Captain Guy ordered the boats to be hoisted up, as a necessary precaution, and gave the chief (whose name we soon found to be ''Too-wit'') to understand that we could admit no more than twenty of his men on deck at one time. With this arrangement he appeared perfectly satisfied, and gave some directions to the canoes, when one of them approached, the rest remaining about fifty yards off. Twenty of the savages now got on board, and proceeded to ramble over every part of the deck, and scramble about among the rigging, making themselves much at home, and examining every article with great inquisitiveness. 

It was quite evident that they had never before seen any of the white race—from whose complexion, indeed, they appeared to recoil. They believed the Jane to be a living creature, and seemed to be afraid of hurting it with the points of their spears, carefully turning them up. Our crew were much amused with the conduct of Too-wit in one instance. The cook was splitting some wood near the galley, and, by accident, struck his axe into the deck, making a gash of considerable depth. The chief immediately ran up, and pushing the cook on one side rather roughly, commenced a half whine, half howl, strongly indicative of sympathy in what he considered the sufferings of the schooner, patting and smoothing the gash with his hand, and washing it from a bucket of seawater which stood by. This was a degree of ignorance for which we were not prepared, and for my part I could not help thinking some of it affected. 

When the visitors had satisfied, as well as they could, their curiosity in regard to our upper works, they were admitted below, when their amazement exceeded all bounds. Their astonishment now appeared to be far too deep for words, for they roamed about in silence, broken only by low ejaculations. The arms afforded them much food for speculation, and they were suffered to handle and examine them at leisure. I do not believe that they had the least suspicion of their actual use, but rather took them for idols, seeing the care we had of them, and the attention with which we watched their movements while handling them. At the great guns their wonder was redoubled. They approached them with every mark of the profoundest reverence and awe, but forbore to examine them minutely. There were two large mirrors in the cabin, and here was the acme of their amazement. Too-wit was the first to approach them, and he had got in the middle of the cabin, with his face to one and his back to the other, before he fairly perceived them. Upon raising his eyes and seeing his reflected self in the glass, I thought the savage would go mad; but, upon turning short round to make a retreat, and beholding himself a second time in the opposite direction, I was afraid he would expire upon the spot. No persuasion could prevail upon him to take another look; throwing himself upon the floor, with his face buried in his hands, he remained thus until we were obliged to drag him upon deck. 

The whole of the savages were admitted on board in this manner, twenty at a time, Too-wit being suffered to remain during the entire period. We saw no disposition to thievery among them, nor did we miss a single article after their departure. Throughout the whole of their visit they evinced the most friendly manner. There were, however, some points in their demeanour which we found it impossible to understand; for example, we could not get them to approach several very harmless objects- such as the schooner's sails, an egg, an open book, or a pan of flour. We endeavoured to ascertain if they had among them any articles which might be turned to account in the way of traffic, but found great difficulty in being comprehended. We made out, nevertheless, what greatly astonished us, that the islands abounded in the large tortoise of the Gallipagos, one of which we saw in the canoe of Too-wit. We saw also some ''biche de mer'' in the hands of one of the savages, who was greedily devouring it in its natural state. These anomalies—for they were such when considered in regard to the latitude—induced Captain Guy to wish for a thorough investigation of the country, in the hope of making a profitable speculation in his discovery. For my own part, anxious as I was to know something more of these islands, I was still more earnestly bent on prosecuting the voyage to the southward without delay. We had now fine weather, but there was no telling how long it would last; and being already in the eighty-fourth parallel, with an open sea before us, a current setting strongly to the southward, and the wind fair, I could not listen with any patience to a proposition of stopping longer than was absolutely necessary for the health of the crew and the taking on board a proper supply of fuel and fresh provisions. I represented to the captain that we might easily make this group on our return, and winter here in the event of being blocked up by the ice. He at length came into my views (for in some way, hardly known to myself, I had acquired much influence over him), and it was finally resolved that, even in the event of our finding ''biche de mer'', we should only stay here a week to recruit, and then push on to the southward while we might. Accordingly we made every necessary preparation, and, under the guidance of Too-wit, got the Jane through the reef in safety, coming to anchor about a mile from the shore, in an excellent bay, completely landlocked, on the southeastern coast of the main island, and in ten fathoms of water, black sandy bottom. At the head of this bay there were three fine springs (we were told) of good water, and we saw abundance of wood in the vicinity. The four canoes followed us in, keeping, however, at a respectful distance. Too-wit himself remained on board, and, upon our dropping anchor, invited us to accompany him on shore, and visit his village in the interior. To this Captain Guy consented; and ten savages being left on board as hostages, a party of us, twelve in all, got in readiness to attend the chief. We took care to be well armed, yet without evincing any distrust. The schooner had her guns run out, her boarding-nettings up, and every other proper precaution was taken to guard against surprise. Directions were left with the chief mate to admit no person on board during our absence, and, in the event of our not appearing in twelve hours, to send the cutter, with a swivel, around the island in search of us. 

At every step we took inland the conviction forced itself upon us that we were in a country differing essentially from any hitherto visited by civilized men. We saw nothing with which we had been formerly conversant. The trees resembled no growth of either the torrid, the temperate, of the northern frigid zones, and were altogether unlike those of the lower southern latitudes we had already traversed. The very rocks were novel in their mass, their color, and their stratification; and the streams themselves, utterly incredible as it may appear, had so little in common with those of other climates, that we were scrupulous of tasting them, and, indeed, had difficulty in bringing ourselves to believe that their qualities were purely those of nature. At a small brook which crossed our path (the first we had reached) Too-wit and his attendants halted to drink. On account of the singular character of the water, we refused to taste it, supposing it to be polluted; and it was not until some time afterward we came to understand that such was the appearance of the streams throughout the whole group. I am at a loss to give a distinct idea of the nature of this liquid, and cannot do so without many words. Although it flowed with rapidity in all declivities where common water would do so, yet never, except when falling in a cascade, had it the customary appearance of ''limpidity''. It was, nevertheless, in point of fact, as perfectly limpid as any limestone water in existence, the difference being only in appearance. At first sight, and especially in cases where little declivity was found, it bore resemblance, as regards consistency, to a thick infusion of gum arabic in common water. But this was only the least remarkable of its extraordinary qualities. It was ''not'' colourless, nor was it of any one uniform colour—presenting to the eye, as it flowed, every possible shade of purple; like the hues of a changeable silk. This variation in shade was produced in a manner which excited as profound astonishment in the minds of our party as the mirror had done in the case of Too-wit. Upon collecting a basinful, and allowing it to settle thoroughly, we perceived that the whole mass of liquid was made up of a number of distinct veins, each of a distinct hue; that these veins did not commingle; and that their cohesion was perfect in regard to their own particles among themselves, and imperfect in regard to neighbouring veins. Upon passing the blade of a knife athwart the veins, the water closed over it immediately, as with us, and also, in withdrawing it, all traces of the passage of the knife were instantly obliterated. If, however, the blade was passed down accurately between the two veins, a perfect separation was effected, which the power of cohesion did not immediately rectify. The phenomena of this water formed the first definite link in that vast chain of apparent miracles with which I was destined to be at length encircled. 
{{rule}}
{{reflist|2|refs=
&lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;&gt;The terms ''morning'' and ''evening'', which I have made use of to avoid confusion in my narrative, as far as possible, must not, of course, be taken in their ordinary sense. For a long time past we had had no night at all, the daylight being continual. The dates throughout are according to nautical time, and the bearings must be understood as per compass. I would also remark in this place, that I cannot, in the first portion of what is here written, pretend to strict accuracy in respect to dates, or latitudes and longitudes, having kept no regular journal until after the period of which this first portion treats. In many instances I have relied altogether upon memory.&lt;/ref&gt;}}</text>
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    <title>The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym/Chapter 21</title>
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 | title    = [[../]]
 | author   = Edgar Allan Poe
 | section  = Chapter 21
 | previous = [[../Chapter 20|Chapter 20.]]
 | next     = [[../Chapter 22|Chapter 22.]]
 | notes    = 
}}
As soon as I could collect my scattered senses, I found myself nearly suffocated, and grovelling in utter darkness among a quantity of loose earth, which was also falling upon me heavily in every direction, threatening to bury me entirely. Horribly alarmed at this idea, I struggled to gain my feet, and at last succeeded. I then remained motionless for some moments, endeavouring to conceive what had happened to me, and where I was. Presently I heard a deep groan just at my ear, and afterward the smothered voice of Peters calling to me for aid in the name of God. I scrambled one or two paces forward, when I fell directly over the head and shoulders of my companion, who, I soon discovered, was buried in a loose mass of earth as far as his middle, and struggling desperately to free himself from the pressure. I tore the dirt from around him with all the energy I could command, and at length succeeded in getting him out. 

As soon as we sufficiently recovered from our fright and surprise to be capable of conversing rationally, we both came to the conclusion that the walls of the fissure in which we had ventured had, by some convulsion of nature, or probably from their own weight, caved in overhead, and that we were consequently lost for ever, being thus entombed alive. For a long time we gave up supinely to the most intense agony and despair, such as cannot be adequately imagined by those who have never been in a similar position. I firmly believed that no incident ever occurring in the course of human events is more adapted to inspire the supremeness of mental and bodily distress than a case like our own, of living inhumation. The blackness of darkness which envelops the victim, the terrific oppression of lungs, the stifling fumes from the damp earth, unite with the ghastly considerations that we are beyond the remotest confines of hope, and that such is the allotted portion of ''the dead'', to carry into the human heart a degree of appalling awe and horror not to be tolerated—never to be conceived. 

At length Peters proposed that we should endeavour to ascertain precisely the extent of our calamity, and grope about our prison; it being barely possible, he observed, that some opening might yet be left us for escape. I caught eagerly at this hope, and, arousing myself to exertion, attempted to force my way through the loose earth. Hardly had I advanced a single step before a glimmer of light became perceptible, enough to convince me that, at all events, we should not immediately perish for want of air. We now took some degree of heart, and encouraged each other to hope for the best. Having scrambled over a bank of rubbish which impeded our farther progress in the direction of the light, we found less difficulty in advancing and also experienced some relief from the excessive oppression of lungs which had tormented us. Presently we were enabled to obtain a glimpse of the objects around, and discovered that we were near the extremity of the straight portion of the fissure, where it made a turn to the left. A few struggles more, and we reached the bend, when to our inexpressible joy, there appeared a long seam or crack extending upward a vast distance, generally at an angle of about forty-five degrees, although sometimes much more precipitous. We could not see through the whole extent of this opening; but, as a good deal of light came down it, we had little doubt of finding at the top of it (if we could by any means reach the top) a clear passage into the open air. 

I now called to mind that three of us had entered the fissure from the main gorge, and that our companion, Allen, was still missing; we determined at once to retrace our steps and look for him. After a long search, and much danger from the farther caving in of the earth above us, Peters at length cried out to me that he had hold of our companion's foot, and that his whole body was deeply buried beneath the rubbish beyond the possibility of extricating him. I soon found that what he said was too true, and that, of course, life had been long extinct. With sorrowful hearts, therefore, we left the corpse to its fate, and again made our way to the bend. 

The breadth of the seam was barely sufficient to admit us, and, after one or two ineffectual efforts at getting up, we began once more to despair. I have before said that the chain of hills through which ran the main gorge was composed of a species of soft rock resembling soapstone. The sides of the cleft we were now attempting to ascend were of the same material, and so excessively slippery, being wet, that we could get but little foothold upon them even in their least precipitous parts; in some places, where the ascent was nearly perpendicular, the difficulty was, of course, much aggravated; and, indeed, for some time we thought insurmountable. We took courage, however, from despair, and what, by dint of cutting steps in the soft stone with our bowie knives, and swinging at the risk of our lives, to small projecting points of a harder species of slaty rock which now and then protruded from the general mass, we at length reached a natural platform, from which was perceptible a patch of blue sky, at the extremity of a thickly-wooded ravine. Looking back now, with somewhat more leisure, at the passage through which we had thus far proceeded, we clearly saw from the appearance of its sides, that it was of late formation, and we concluded that the concussion, whatever it was, which had so unexpectedly overwhelmed us, had also, at the same moment, laid open this path for escape. Being quite exhausted with exertion, and indeed, so weak that we were scarcely able to stand or articulate, Peters now proposed that we should endeavour to bring our companions to the rescue by firing the pistols which still remained in our girdles—the muskets as well as cutlasses had been lost among the loose earth at the bottom of the chasm. Subsequent events proved that, had we fired, we should have sorely repented it, but luckily a half suspicion of foul play had by this time arisen in my mind, and we forbore to let the savages know of our whereabouts. 

After having reposed for about an hour, we pushed on slowly up the ravine, and had gone no great way before we heard a succession of tremendous yells. At length we reached what might be called the surface of the ground; for our path hitherto, since leaving the platform, had lain beneath an archway of high rock and foliage, at a vast distance overhead. With great caution we stole to a narrow opening, through which we had a clear sight of the surrounding country, when the whole dreadful secret of the concussion broke upon us in one moment and at one view. 

The spot from which we looked was not far from the summit of the highest peak in the range of the soapstone hills. The gorge in which our party of thirty-two had entered ran within fifty feet to the left of us. But, for at least one hundred yards, the channel or bed of this gorge was entirely filled up with the chaotic ruins of more than a million tons of earth and stone that had been artificially tumbled within it. The means by which the vast mass had been precipitated were not more simple than evident, for sure traces of the murderous work were yet remaining. In several spots along the top of the eastern side of the gorge (we were now on the western) might be seen stakes of wood driven into the earth. In these spots the earth had not given way, but throughout the whole extent of the face of the precipice from which the mass ''had'' fallen, it was clear, from marks left in the soil resembling those made by the drill of the rock blaster, that stakes similar to those we saw standing had been inserted, at not more than a yard apart, for the length of perhaps three hundred feet, and ranging at about ten feet back from the edge of the gulf. Strong cords of grape vine were attached to the stakes still remaining on the hill, and it was evident that such cords had also been attached to each of the other stakes. I have already spoken of the singular stratification of these soapstone hills; and the description just given of the narrow and deep fissure through which we effected our escape from inhumation will afford a further conception of its nature. This was such that almost every natural convulsion would be sure to split the soil into perpendicular layers or ridges running parallel with one another, and a very moderate exertion of art would be sufficient for effecting the same purpose. Of this stratification the savages had availed themselves to accomplish their treacherous ends. There can be no doubt that, by the continuous line of stakes, a partial rupture of the soil had been brought about probably to the depth of one or two feet, when by means of a savage pulling at the end of each of the cords (these cords being attached to the tops of the stakes, and extending back from the edge of the cliff), a vast leverage power was obtained, capable of hurling the whole face of the hill, upon a given signal, into the bosom of the abyss below. The fate of our poor companions was no longer a matter of uncertainty. We alone had escaped from the tempest of that overwhelming destruction. We were the only living white men upon the island.</text>
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    <title>Wikisource:Scriptorium</title>
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        <username>SnowyCinema</username>
        <id>2484340</id>
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      <comment>/* Jersey Journal disconnected from Wikidata */ done</comment>
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      <text bytes="109629" sha1="26hwiufwf943x8bxe6jsdfxxz6tq6hb" xml:space="preserve">{{process header
 | title    = Scriptorium 
 | section  =
 | previous = [[Wikisource:Index/Community|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives|Archives]]
 | shortcut = [[WS:S]]&lt;br/&gt;[[WS:SCRIPTORIUM]]
 | notes    = The '''[[wikt:scriptorium|Scriptorium]]''' is Wikisource's community discussion page. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[{{fullurl:Wikisource:Scriptorium|action=edit&amp;section=new start}} a new one]&lt;/span&gt;; please see '''[[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]'''.

The [[Wikisource:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' noticeboard]] can be used where appropriate. Some announcements and newsletters are subscribed to [[/Announcements/]].

Project members can often be found in the [[liberachat:wikisource|#wikisource]] IRC channel [https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat?channel=#wikisource webclient]. For discussion related to the entire project (not just the English chapter), please discuss at the [[:mul:Scriptorium|multilingual Wikisource]]. There are currently {{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}} [[Special:ActiveUsers|active users]] here.
{{/Navigation}}
}}
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[[Category:Bots/Archival|Scriptorium ]]
[[Category:Wikisource|Scriptorium]]
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
&lt;!-- Interwiki links --&gt;
[[mul:Scriptorium]]
&lt;!-- Interwiki links --&gt;

= Announcements =

= Proposals =
== Overriding Vector 2022 paragraph spacing ==
Since the forced deployment in November 2024, and multiple discussions including [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-01#Paragraph_spacing], [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding V22 paragraph spacing|2]], [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Switching to the Vector 2022 skin: the final date|3]], and [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Deployment of Vector 2022|4]], the idea of overriding the excessive paragraph spacing from V22 was floated multiple times. V22 raised the 0.9em spacing between paragraphs to 1.5em, which broke content that expected text to have similar size across skins (notably but not only {{tl|overfloat image}}).

This proposal is therefore to add to [[MediaWiki:Gadget-Site.css]]:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.mw-body p {
    margin:0.4em 0 0.5em 0;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Technical notes:
* this should have neither false positives nor false negatives given that &lt;code&gt;.mw-body p&lt;/code&gt; is the exact same selector used by V22.
* if site.css is loaded before the skin css, then we can just add a &lt;code&gt;html &lt;/code&gt; at the start of the selector: will not change the selection (given everything's in an html), and will give it more specificity (0,1,2 vs 0,1,1).
* 0.4em 0 0.5em 0 is exactly how it was in V10.
* this may stop working one day whenever WMF decides to IDHT another change through; but so can the entire website, and at least we'll have a fix. If it stops working, we can easily remove it and go back to our current state of having broken content.
— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} as proposer. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}}, strongly. Thanks for starting the vote! --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:51, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:58, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:09, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

= Bot approval requests =
* See [[Wikisource:Bots]]  for information about applying for a bot status
* See [[Wikisource:Bot requests]] if you require an existing bot to undertake a task

==[[User:333Bot]]==
(See also [[#Thinking of an anti-linkrot bot]].)

For non-scan backed works, sometimes the original webpage disappears and we lose the source. This task would archive automatically sources in new mainspace/talk pages at the wayback machine, and add {{tl|wml}}.

To avoid archiving vandalism, it would only do this on pages older than a week. (It won't search beyond the 2000th created page.)

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. Source's at [[User:Alien333/test#Link archiving]].

The idea would be to run this daily. Test edits: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14252&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001840] and [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14251&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001919]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:59, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
: As nearly two weeks have passed without objections, I activated this task per [[WS:BOT]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:59, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The run is over. Before launching the cronjob I will change the code to prevent it from archiving links in mainspace works' content (there are few valid reasons for extlinks in works; but there are some). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:48, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Did that, started cronjob. Will run at 16h14 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Note: For the last few days, it was stopped by an IA error on a certain page. I have now made it not crash on IA errors. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:03, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

==[[User:333Bot]] 2==
(See also [[#Seeking feedback on bot task to tag untagged deletion nominations]] for details and discussion.)

Works proposed for deletion at [[WS:PD]] or &lt;s&gt;[[WS:PD]]&lt;/s&gt;&lt;ins&gt;[[WS:CV]]&lt;/ins&gt; should be accordingly tagged. Occasionally, people forget to tag them. This task would locate these and tag them.

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. The code's at [[User:Alien333/test#Nomination_tagging]]. It would run daily. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:WS:PD or WS:PD ? Aren't they the same ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:24, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, you're right. Got mixed up. Meant PD and CV. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Heads up: I started the cronjob. (No untagged nominations rn, so may do no edits.) Runs will occur at about 5h40 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:27, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

=Repairs (and moves)=

'''Designated for requests related to the repair of works (and scans of works) presented on Wikisource'''

See also [[Wikisource:Scan lab]]

== Explanatory Notes Indices ==
Please move the following indices to their new corresponding filename
* [[Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
[[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:42, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: Errr. Feel free to trout me, but I don't understand what you're asking for.
: As in, move which pages to which titles? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::* Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-16 qp).pdf
::* Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 (UKPGA 2003-31 qp).pdf
::* Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Defamation Act 2013 (UKPGA 2013-26 qp).pdf
::* Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Modern Slavery Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-30 qp).pdf
::* Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Live Music Act 2012 (UKPGA 2012-2 qp).pdf
::* Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 (UKPGA 2011-14 qp).pdf
::This is to match filename move at commons. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:29, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

= Other discussions =
== [[Contra-Props]] ==

This article was published in a British magazine in 1941; the author died in 1946. Would this be still in copyright ? Or PD ?

(This was the subject of a previous query here which got archived without being answered - [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2019-09#1941_UK_publication]]) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:51, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
: Looks copyrighted to me. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:31, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
: Unless there's some reason they count as a US work, all UK works were restored by the URAA. The few exceptions are either Crown Copyright or were published by authors who died before 1926.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:26, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - I have put it as apparant copyright violation - [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions#Contra-Props]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That page has now been deleted so this query can be closed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:48, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Manual indexing of news articles versus Automatic indexing of news articles ==

I want to convert [[Brooklyn Eagle]] to an automatic-index instead of the hand-curated index. The hand curated index looks pretty, but is always missing articles. We can have [[The Brooklyn Eagle]] as the pretty one. See how it is done at [[Jersey Journal]], scroll to the bottom and there is a link to the pretty hand-curated list, missing many articles. This is similar to how Commons does it, you have automatic index at Category:Foo, and hand curated one as Foo, that is always missing entries. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 17:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:More automated curation of Periodicals and Newspapers on this site in the future would in general be a good thing - there's a lot of good work being done across a lot of these works but the process of creating the main-space pages for them can get very tedious and repetitive. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose had to write janky programs to semi-automate their individual workflows for some of these works.
:Your idea of a distinction between '''The Somewhere Argus''' and '''Somewhere Argus''' is interesting (and as I'm not a big user of wikimedia, not something I've particularly noticed on that site), but it doesn't seem particularly intuitive to me that one should be a raw list and another a curated view (or which way round those should be, and it seems quite a big departure from how work is generally presented here. Is it done anywhere else on this site? In the past I've seen a lot of resistance to the same work being included in different main-space pages. 
:In terms of a curated view, that may be better done by creating a Portal for that work. For example, when I worked through the July-Dec 1914 volumes of [[Punch]], I created a summary of all of the books reviewed in that volume which I put here: [[Portal:Punch/Reviewed Books]], that wouldn't really have been appropriate to put in the main page. 
:Alternatively, what's stopping you from having a list of highlights and the automatic index linked from the same page? That's effectively what [[The New York Times]] does - some of the issues are highlighted (those for which enough work has been done for them to have a complete contents page) but for the rest, there are year-based automatic lists using the {{tl|header periodical}} template. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 09:56, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
:* You are right, &quot;Portal:Brooklyn Eagle&quot; would be best for the hand curated ones, we should standardize on that, and migrate older ones to that format. Currently there are six styles of indexes for magazines and newspapers. There were at least ten different styles before I tried to standardized them. I eliminated the ones that were experimental one-of-a-kind ones. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 19:25, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Don't we already have a standard format, as documented at [[Wikisource:Periodical guidelines]] ? —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:24, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:By the way, I fixed [[Jersey Journal]]. There shouldn't be two separate mainspace pages for the same work, so I deleted the one that was simply a dump of subpages, and replaced it with the properly structured list that was previously located at [[The Jersey Journal]].
:In general, the automatic subpage listing should only be used as a temporary stop-gap until a proper page listing can be created. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:31, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::To your original point though - if you can find a way to automatically list all subpages, whether or not they have already been created, and in the correct order they appear in the publication, then that would be amazing and definitely we'd all make extensive use of such a system. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:14, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
Automate portals, have them point to Main.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:50, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

==QuickSurveys==
Apparently some new “feature” has been forced upon us again. These are annoying pop-up boxes which really mess up the formatting, especially if whatever text at the top of the page is centered (as it often is). Can this be disabled by default for everyone? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:32, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Dropped a task ([[phab:T393436]]) to ask them to not barge into the content like this, but I don't have much hope.
: And no, this extension and its parameters are a wmf thing, so we can't really do anything on our own. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:I have no clue what you're talking about. Can you tell me the steps to reproduce this issue? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:49, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::I can see it on any page that I open (and it is very disturbing), so if you do not, you might have it disabled in your preferences. See also the screenshots uploaded to the above linked phabricator task. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I don't. I'm trying to figure out which settings the original person has to see why he sees it, but if you're seeing it also, that is odd to me. I'm not sure why anyone is seeing this. I'm not. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 12:19, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::In the preferences under the &quot;User profile&quot; tab there is a section &quot;QuickSurvey extension&quot; where the surveys can be set as hidden. Currently logged out users also do not see it, but if this feature stays, we can imo expect it will be used to display messages (e.g. pleas for funding) to them as well. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: These things are highly targetable and targeted, see [[mw:Extension:QuickSurveys]]. Probably you aren't counted as an active patroller here (and this precise survey is about patrolling tools). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:57, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just an example of what I am seeing: [https://phab.wmfusercontent.org/file/data/wvrcadows4ftokyz3lyg/PHID-FILE-udsgsisdj2hq2uuva46d/screenshot3jpg.jpg] --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:06, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
*Another awful example: [[Charter Granted by Queen Elizabeth to the East India Company]]. This time, the pop-up is within the delete template. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:59, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*: Well, it just barges into the first thing it finds. They don't appear to be actively paying attention to tasks, and I don't expect them to pay attention to user feedback either, so this probably won't be fixed for a good while. My two cents are go disable it in your settings.
*: At least we've got the comfort most users don't see it.... But of course they make whatever surveys they want targeting whoever they want, so it's not that unlikely that this will become a problem for everyone in the near future.
*: Aaaahh, deploying breaking changes with no discussion, no warning, no community opt-out, and without listening to feedback. Becoming a habit, isn't it? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:43, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::It's showing up for me too.  Once I disable it on one project, then I get it on another.  Those of us who regularly visit multiple projects are going to be the most annoyed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:50, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::: Did you check the global settings? Perhaps there you can opt-out for all projects. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::I don't even have the option of using the same skin globally. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:28, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::: That's weird. So like, when you go [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-rendering-skin here], you don't see a &quot;Skin&quot;, a checkbox on whether to make it a default setting, and radio buttons with the options? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:20, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Might I suggest the following solution? : &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#bodyContent .ext-quick-survey-panel {display:none;}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 00:57, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::There's a setting to always hide them; the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole (except through site css, but Xover is the only active intadmin and has shown much reticence to adding that kind of stuff (see [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding_V22_paragraph_spacing]])). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:18, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: If that is an issue, we can simply come to a consensus, as a community, that the QS system needs to be blocked, and direct him to make the appropriate changes reflecting that consensus. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 12:35, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:Yes, the reticence of one admin should not override community consensus, and Xover knows that as well as the rest of us :) (that being said, I think a proper proposal would be necessary to determine consensus for something like this) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:13, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::Is amending the user profile, as stated by Jan above, not a good enough solution ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:11, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::: From the technical standpoint, yes, changing site CSS is 99% sure to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:::As Alien333 said, the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole - and you can't do that with the user profile. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:00, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Second pair of eyes for unclear letter ==

At [[Page:Poems Hornblower.djvu/110]], the last letter of {{tqi|Draw with their very breath—the poisonous faith}} is not super clear. I think I see the beginning of the arch of an h going right from the vertical bar after the t, but I'd appreciate if someone could give a quick look and confirm or not. (Compare also the {{tqi|faith}} from {{tqi|The world's cold faith,}} a few lines above.) Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:51, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:I think your assessment is good.  &quot;poisonous faith&quot; works with &quot;inglorious views&quot; and the soul straying from a &quot;diviner walk&quot;.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 21:02, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
::I agree; scans of different copies of the same book show the same misprinting ([https://books.google.com/books?id=ox1kAAAAcAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 BL], [https://books.google.com/books?id=fCQOAAAAQAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 Bod]), but the start of the arch of the 'h' is just visible in all. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:40, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to both. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:16, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== FYI: Wikisource: Preserving the Past for the Future ==

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2025/05/13/wikisource-preserving-the-past-for-the-future/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
*Who is Nanteza Divine Gabriella? I don’t recognize the name. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:11, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:* [[User:DivineGaby]] [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:53, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

== Call for Candidates for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
The results of voting on the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement Guidelines and Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) Charter is [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Annual review/2025#Results|available on Meta-wiki]].

You may now [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025/Candidates|submit your candidacy to serve on the U4C]] through 29 May 2025 at 12:00 UTC. Information about [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|eligibility, process, and the timeline are on Meta-wiki]]. Voting on candidates will open on 1 June 2025 and run for two weeks, closing on 15 June 2025 at 12:00 UTC.

If you have any questions, you can ask on [[m:Talk:Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|the discussion page for the election]]. -- in cooperation with the U4C, &lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

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== Billingual template with Welsh Parliament Acts ==

The formatting problems that @[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] complained about in [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] could be fixed by using the {{tl|Bilingual}} template, however this creates its own formatting problems which I have shown at [[Wikisource:Sandbox]]. Additionally, the page numbers don't match up because the page numbers go up every second page due to the welsh version of a page using the same page number as the corresponding english version. Does anyone know how to fix this. 

Additionally, could someone make a version of the Bilingual template that could be more useful for longer works such as [[Index:Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2023 (ASC 2023-3 kp).pdf]] so whoever ends up working on that doesn't have to use the template over 200 times in one page. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:33, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:Not sure about the code for this, but would it be possible to transclude multiple pages at once like [[Template:Side by side]] using the &lt;code&gt;&lt;pages&gt;&lt;/code&gt; syntax, but reset the display each page so that the first lines of each page line up? I'm sure there's some struggle with that preserving the indents using colons like appears when using [[Template:Bilingual]]... [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 21:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
::The current practice for bitexts like this, is to transclude the English here, and the alternate pages at the Wikisource for the other language.  The two can then be linked to each other in the notes section of the header.  There are some exceptions here, and you can see an example at [[Modern Czech Poetry/October sonnet]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The Welsh elements of [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] have been moved over to Welsh Wikisource, and the pages have been linked in Wikidata and mentioned in the notes section! [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:29, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[:File:Weird Tales Volume 13 Number 06 (1929-06).djvu]] ==

This was originally uploaded to Commons with pages that were still in copyright redacted. Those are now out of copyright. What is the best way to restore them ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:19, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:Upload a new version of the file over the top of what's there. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:52, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
: That's assuming that placeholders were left. If not, then we need to first shift the Page:s to give room for the added pages. I can do that; ping me if it's needed. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:15, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you both. Yes, on this one, there are blank pages where the text was redacted, so taht should work fine. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:03, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== HathiTrust ==

[[Help:Image extraction#HathiTrust]] no longer works me; when I try running it, I just get Error 403.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 08:27, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I haven't tried any programs myself, but there are a few image downloader programs for HathiTrust available on GitHub, [https://github.com/Addono/HathiTrust-downloader this one for example]. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of HathiTrust can vouch for a particular method. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:22, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Linking to Explanatory Notes for UK Legislation ==

@[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] @[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] I've seen 3 different ways of linking to Explanatory Notes currently seen at [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]], [[Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011]], and [[Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015]] and I feel like we should have some consistency with how we link to Explanatory Notes. How should we go about linking to Explanatory Notes. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:25, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I did Welsh as I did because the King's Printer version included a formal title page including the mention of the explanatory notes. With Fixed Term Parliaments, it doesn't have that page, so the inclusion of the note makes sense. We could add that to ones that do have the title page. I personally don't know if using the &quot;next&quot; parameter like in Specialist Printing is best, because it prevents us from using that parameter to link to the next act that year, if that's something we wanted to do. I know it's done in some other countries that have full years of acts transcluded. Similar issue in Fixed Term Parliaments using &quot;next&quot; for the Schedules.&lt;br&gt;
:I think best is to link things mentioned within the title/TOC like in [[Scotland Act 1998]], including Explanatory Notes if there, and then we can mention Explanatory Notes in the &quot;notes&quot; of the header, and leave &quot;previous&quot; and &quot;next&quot; for linking to surrounding acts. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:48, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== Page marked historical ==

Heads up that I tagged [[Wikisource:Purchases]] with {{tl|historical}} since it hasn't actually been in use in several years. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:48, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: This project page is interesting and was unknown to me until just now. It is very similar to an idea that [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] and I have discussed recently, which would involve creating a centralized page in the Project namespace for requests for scans to be made where no scans appear to be accessible online (which would replace [[User:TE(æ)A,ea./Requests]] in their personal user space). My suggested name was either [[WS:Requests for scans]], or making that a section of the [[WS:Scan Lab]]. FYI, because of the inter-library loan (ILL) system, very few books would actually need to be ''bought'' in order to be scanned anymore (as far as I understand it), but buying should definitely be an option for those who are willing to donate the material, in cases where ILL is not possible. All in all, the Purchases page has merit conceptually, but in its current implementation inserting {{tl|historical}} was the right move. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:00, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-21 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The Editing Team and the Machine Learning Team are working on a new check for newcomers: [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check|Peacock check]]. Using a prediction model, this check will encourage editors to improve the tone of their edits, using artificial intelligence. We invite volunteers to review the first version of the Peacock language model for the following languages: Arabic, Spanish, Portuguese, English, and Japanese. Users from these wikis interested in reviewing this model are [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check/model test|invited to sign up at MediaWiki.org]]. The deadline to sign up is on May 23, which will be the start date of the test.

'''Updates for editors'''

* From May 20, 2025, [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Oversight policy|oversighters]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Meta:CheckUsers|checkusers]] will need to have their accounts secured with two-factor authentication (2FA) to be able to use their advanced rights. All users who belong to these two groups and do not have 2FA enabled have been informed. In the future, this requirement may be extended to other users with advanced rights. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Mandatory two-factor authentication for users with some extended rights|Learn more]].
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]]  [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|Multiblocks]] will begin mass deployment by the end of the month: all non-Wikipedia projects plus Catalan Wikipedia will adopt Multiblocks in the week of May 26, while all other Wikipedias will adopt it in the week of June 2. Please [[m:Talk:Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|contact the team]] if you have concerns. Administrators can test the new user interface now on your own wiki by browsing to [{{fullurl:Special:Block|usecodex=1}} {{#special:Block}}?usecodex=1], and can test the full multiblocks functionality [[testwiki:Special:Block|on testwiki]]. Multiblocks is the feature that makes it possible for administrators to impose different types of blocks on the same user at the same time. See the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|help page]] for more information. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* Later this week, the [[{{#special:SpecialPages}}]] listing of almost all special pages will be updated with a new design. This page has been [[phab:T219543|redesigned]] to improve the user experience in a few ways, including: The ability to search for names and aliases of the special pages, sorting, more visible marking of restricted special pages, and a more mobile-friendly look. The new version can be [https://meta.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:SpecialPages previewed] at Beta Cluster now, and feedback shared in the task. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219543]
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is being enabled on more wikis. For a detailed list of when the extension will be enabled on your wiki, please read the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart/Project#Deployment Timeline|deployment timeline]].
* [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Main Page|Wikifunctions]] will be deployed on May 27 on five Wiktionaries: [[wikt:ha:|Hausa]], [[wikt:ig:|Igbo]], [[wikt:bn:|Bengali]], [[wikt:ml:|Malayalam]], and [[wikt:dv:|Dhivehi/Maldivian]]. This is the second batch of deployment planned for the project. After deployment, the projects will be able to call [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Introduction|functions from Wikifunctions]] and integrate them in their pages. A function is something that takes one or more inputs and transforms them into a desired output, such as adding up two numbers, converting miles into metres, calculating how much time has passed since an event, or declining a word into a case. Wikifunctions will allow users to do that through a simple call of [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Catalogue|a stable and global function]], rather than via a local template.
* Later this week, the Wikimedia Foundation will publish a hub for [[diffblog:2024/07/09/on-the-value-of-experimentation/|experiments]]. This is to showcase and get user feedback on product experiments. The experiments help the Wikimedia movement [[diffblog:2023/07/13/exploring-paths-for-the-future-of-free-knowledge-new-wikipedia-chatgpt-plugin-leveraging-rich-media-social-apps-and-other-experiments/|understand new users]], how they interact with the internet and how it could affect the Wikimedia movement. Some examples are [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Generated Video|generated video]], the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Roblox game|Wikipedia Roblox speedrun game]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Discord bot|the Discord bot]].
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:29}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:29|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, there was a bug with creating an account using the API, which has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T390751]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Gadgets and user scripts that interact with [[{{#special:Block}}]] may need to be updated to work with the new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|manage blocks interface]]. Please review the [[mw:Help:Manage blocks/Developers|developer guide]] for more information. If you need help or are unable to adapt your script to the new interface, please let the team know on the [[mw:Help talk:Manage blocks/Developers|talk page]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.title&lt;/code&gt; object allows you to get information about a specific wiki page in the [[w:en:Wikipedia:Lua|Lua]] programming language. Starting this week, a new property will be added to the object, named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;isDisambiguationPage&lt;/code&gt;. This property allows you to check if a page is a disambiguation page, without the need to write a custom function. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T71441]
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|15px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] User script developers can use a [[toolforge:gitlab-content|new reverse proxy tool]] to load javascript and css from [[gitlab:|gitlab.wikimedia.org]] with &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.loader.load&lt;/code&gt;. The tool's author hopes this will enable collaborative development workflows for user scripts including linting, unit tests, code generation, and code review on &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;gitlab.wikimedia.org&lt;/bdi&gt; without a separate copy-and-paste step to publish scripts to a Wikimedia wiki for integration and acceptance testing. See [[wikitech:Tool:Gitlab-content|Tool:Gitlab-content on Wikitech]] for more information.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.2|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* The 12th edition of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wiki Workshop 2025|Wiki Workshop 2025]], a forum that brings together researchers that explore all aspects of Wikimedia projects, will be held virtually on 21-22 May. Researchers can [https://pretix.eu/wikimedia/wikiworkshop2025/ register now].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;

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== RfC ongoing regarding Abstract Wikipedia (and your project) ==

&lt;div lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;
''(Apologies for posting in English, if this is not your first language)''

Hello all! We opened a discussion on Meta about a very delicate issue for the development of [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]]: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. Since some of the hypothesis involve your project, we wanted to hear your thoughts too. 

We want to make the decision process clear: we do not yet know which option we want to use, which is why we are consulting here. We will take the arguments from the Wikimedia communities into account, and we want to consult with the different communities and hear arguments that will help us with the decision. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

You can read the various hypothesis and have your say at [[:m:Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]]. Thank you in advance! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|&lt;span class=&quot;signature-talk&quot;&gt;{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}&lt;/span&gt;]]) 15:27, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Weird Tales file and index with incorrect name ==

[[Index:Weird Tales Volume 02 Number 2 (1937-02).djvu]] should say Volume 29. Do you think I should ask for the file on Commons to be moved, and then to have the index and pages here moved ? Or just leave it as it is ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:15, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
: Given some of it is already transcluded, and that the index is not exposed to the end reader, I'd say leaving a comment like {{tqi|(typo in file name)}} in the index title field would be enough of a clarification. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 04:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - thanks. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:39, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== Official Launch of The Million Wiki Project ==

We are thrilled to announce the official launch of [[m:The_Million_Wiki_Project|The Million Wiki Project!]]
[[File:Million Wiki Logo - Colored.svg|200px|right]]
Our mission is to enrich Wikimedia projects with high-quality and diverse content related to the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region. This initiative focuses on creating new articles, multimedia, structured data, and more, covering topics from MENA countries, communities, and diaspora worldwide.

'''Who Can Participate?'''&lt;br&gt;
All registered Wikimedians are welcome to join! Whether you're an individual contributor or part of an organization, your support is valuable. We encourage content creation in any of the six official UN languages (Arabic, English, French, Russian, Spanish, and soon Chinese).

'''What Kind of Content Are We Looking For?'''

* New Wikipedia articles focused on MENA topics
* Multimedia contributions on Wikimedia Commons (photos, videos)
* Structured data for Wikidata
* Language entries on Wiktionary
* Public domain texts on Wikisource

Note: Make sure your content follows local Wikimedia guidelines and licensing policies, including Freedom of Panorama for media files.

Join us in bridging content gaps and showcasing the richness of the MENA region on Wikimedia platforms! &lt;br&gt;
Stay tuned for more updates and participation guidelines. [[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 09:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== New texts list ==

Does a work count as &quot;complete&quot; for the purposes of the new texts list if the book has an index which has not been transcribed nor transcluded ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:56, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
: No. There have been multiple discussions, notably at [[Template talk:New texts]], where a consensus emerged that a work must be proofread and transcluded (but that there was not a need for validation). If you find an unproofread/untranscluded work, you can remove it.
: Sometimes sub-works that are works in their own right without the others (such a play in a collection of plays) also get listed on new text; for such works, it looks like the pratice is to only require that their part of the index be proofread and transcluded. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Radio Times ==

Please join the discussion at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:35, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Beginner's guide to copyright missing a key issue ==

Please could someone add a bullet point to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] about what happens regarding the hosting of scans of works which are considered out-of-copyright by this Wikisource, but not by Wikimedia Commons (for example, where they are still in copyright in Europe, but not the US)? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:30, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

:That's not a copyright concern, but a compatibility concern, so it's covered at [[Help:Licensing compatibility]], which is linked from the bottom of the page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:55, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::It is a copyright concern, and is not about licensing.
::The page to which I referred is styled as a guide for ''Beginners'', and is where a beginner would reasonably look for such information. The page already discusses how other Wikimedia projects choose to respect non-United States copyright law, in contrast to this project, so the additional point under discussion is relevant there.
::Furthermore, the subject is not covered at Help:Licensing compatibility, which includes only one mention of Wikimedia Commons; and that in a section which does not touch on the issue I mention, but is in a section about discussions of the prohibition of &quot;no derivative&quot; clauses. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The &quot;Beginner's guide to copyright&quot; is about copyright itself.  Where our files are stored is not an issue of copyright law.  The Licensing compatibility covers which items are allowed to be hosted here, which ''is'' affected by copyright status, but copyright is ''not'' the only concern, there are other licensing issues that affect what can be hosted here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:37, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Whether a file is stored locally rather than on Commons if often decided ''solely'' on it's copyright status, which is in turn wholly a factor of copyright law.
::::Again: the licensing compatability page does not mention this issue ''at all''.
::::Again: this is not a matter of ''licensing''. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So then, you're looking for [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]]?  Again, where to upload a file may be ''affected'' by the copyright status of the work, but it's not a part of copyright law. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:26, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, I am not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:31, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::This is the page that says: &quot;Usually, the DjVu or PDF file should be uploaded directly to Wikimedia Commons (one of Wikisource's sister sites that holds images and files for general use).  However, Commons chooses to respect the copyright laws of the home country of any work, which Wikisource does not.  In cases where non-United States publications are in the public domain in the United States but not in their home countries, they should be uploaded directly to Wikisource instead.  This method is the same as the method to upload and add images.&quot;  Is that not what you are asking about? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:38, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::No. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:43, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Can you please clarify then? Because this looks to me to be exactly what you were asking about at the start of this thread. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

=== Clarity of Help page ===
User:Pigsonthewing has made [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3ABeginner%27s_guide_to_copyright&amp;oldid=prev&amp;diff=15092053 this change] to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]], with the comment &quot;This is not tangent; it relates directly to the page's pre-existing point about projects &quot;choose to respect non-United States copyright law. English Wikisource does not&quot; and hinges directly on the copyright status of works concerned&quot;

My concern is that this inserts a second tangential issue into a set of paragraphs explaining copyright law.

The text looks like this with the added text in '''bold''':

{{blockquote|
; Non-United States publications
The rules about non-United States publications can get complicated.

Some works may be in the public domain in the United States even if they are still under copyright in their home countries '''(these works should be uploaded directly to Wikisource, not Wikimedia Commons)'''. Other works may be in the public domain in their home countries but still under copyright in the United States '''(these works are not eligible for inclusion on this Wikisource'''.

For example, the last collection of Sherlock Holmes stories, ''[[The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes]]'', was published in 1927
}}

The text is concerned with the copyright status of works, not with the uploading of files.  The added text is concerned with the uploading of files, which is discussed on the page [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]], which has a section devoted to the uploading of source files.

I believe the additions to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] are intrusive, because they insert a second topic into a paragraph that is already about a complicated topic.  I also believe they are superfluous, because we already have a Beginner's guide page that explains where to upload files. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:03, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-22 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* A community-wide discussion about a very delicate issue for the development of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]] is now open on Meta: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. The discussion is open until June 12 at [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]], and every opinion is welcomed. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

'''Updates for editors'''
* Since last week, on all wikis except [[phab:T388604|the largest 20]], people using the mobile visual editor will have [[phab:T385851|additional tools in the menu bar]], accessed using the new &lt;code&gt;+&lt;/code&gt; toolbar button. To start, the new menu will include options to add: citations, hieroglyphs, and code blocks. Deployment to the remaining wikis is [[phab:T388605|scheduled]] to happen in June.
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexist|#ifexist]]&lt;/code&gt; parser function will no longer register a link to its target page. This will improve the usefulness of [[{{#special:WantedPages}}]], which will eventually only list pages that are the target of an actual red link. This change will happen gradually as the source pages are updated. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T14019]
* This week, the Moderator Tools team will launch [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], starting at Indonesian Wikipedia. This new filter highlights edits that are likely to be reverted. The goal is to help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic edits. Other wikis will benefit from this filter in the future.
* Upon clicking an empty search bar, logged-out users will see suggestions of articles for further reading. The feature will be available on both desktop and mobile. Readers of Catalan, Hebrew, and Italian Wikipedias and some sister projects will receive the change between May 21 and mid-June. Readers of other wikis will receive the change later. The goal is to encourage users to read the wikis more. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Reading/Web/Content Discovery Experiments/Search Suggestions|Learn more]].
* Some users of the Wikipedia Android app can use a new feature for readers, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Apps/Team/Android/TrivaGame|WikiGames]], a daily trivia game based on real historical events. The release has started as an A/B test, available to 50% of users in the following languages: English, French, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, and Turkish.
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Newsletter|Newsletter extension]] that is available on MediaWiki.org allows the creation of [[mw:Special:Newsletters|various newsletters]] for global users. The extension can now publish new issues as section links on an existing page, instead of requiring a new page for each issue. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T393844]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:32}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:32|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* The previously deprecated &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Ipblocks table|ipblocks]]&lt;/code&gt; views in [[wikitech:Help:Wiki Replicas|Wiki Replicas]] will be removed in the beginning of June. Users are encouraged to query the new &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block table|block]]&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block target table|block_target]]&lt;/code&gt; views instead.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.3|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects|Wikidata and Sister Projects]] is a multi-day online event that will focus on how Wikidata is integrated to Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. The event runs from May 29 – June 1. You can [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects#Sessions|read the Program schedule]] and [[d:Special:RegisterForEvent/1291|register]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 20:04, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Works as a header ==

Is &quot;Works&quot; by itself as a header in Portals meant to be read as &quot;Works by&quot; or &quot;Works about&quot;? I see it mostly used to mean &quot;Works by&quot; when I see it in Author space and it is separated into &quot;Works by&quot; and &quot;Works about&quot; when the two exist. That is why it looks odd in location Portal space as in [[Portal:Westbrookville, New York]]. IT looks like it the works were written by the location. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 03:15, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: I replaced the L2 &quot;Works about ...&quot; to &quot;Works&quot; to keep it consistent with what's done on most other portal entries on the site. &quot;Works&quot; here means &quot;Works about&quot;. However, as of right now there appears to be no official standard for which header to use. [[Wikisource:Portal guidelines]] and [[Help:Portals]] say nothing about a &quot;Works&quot; section or &quot;Works about&quot; section.
: If &quot;Works&quot; sections should be changed to &quot;Works about&quot; by some informal vote here, then it's probably best to make it an official policy. We should consider also using bots to keep up with the maintenance that would be required to standardize all portal L2s one way or the other.
: Wikisource lacking structure is a massive problem here IMO, since for example Wiktionary has their quite detailed &quot;[[wikt:WT:ELE|Entry layout explained]]&quot; policy page, while the typical Wikisource culture is just to sorta do whatever we want in most areas that could be given a ruleset. This makes things like parsing our content especially difficult, for example. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:06, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::However, there are a number of portals where &quot;works by&quot; is applicable - government departments, for example. 
::If we want to be consistent, I think it would be best to have the same policy for both Authors and Portals. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:39, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That would not make sense for Portals unless they are People Portals.  We would never have &quot;Works by Philosophy&quot; as a header.  And on any larger Portal, it also makes no sense to have a &quot;Works about&quot; header, since potentially everything on the Portal is about the subject of the Portal.  But there are also Portals where the content is '''neither''' by nor about; for example [[Portal:French literature]], where the works ''are'' French literature, and not work written by French literature, nor works about French literature. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:44, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Red link in Monthly Challenge ==

There is a red link in the monthly challenge for [[Author:Department of Defense]] - I understand that author page should not be created. Should that link instead to [[Portal:United States Department of Defense]] ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:42, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

:Yes. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:45, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::Please could somebody make that change - the work is &quot;United States – Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967&quot;. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:40, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::: {{done}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Cheers. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees 2025 Selection &amp; Call for Questions ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
:''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement|{{int:interlanguage-link-mul}}]] • [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&amp;group=page-{{urlencode:Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement}}&amp;language=&amp;action=page&amp;filter= {{int:please-translate}}]''

Dear all,

This year, the term of 2 (two) Community- and Affiliate-selected Trustees on the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees will come to an end [1]. The Board invites the whole movement to participate in this year’s selection process and vote to fill those seats.

The Elections Committee will oversee this process with support from Foundation staff [2]. The Governance Committee, composed of trustees who are not candidates in the 2025 community-and-affiliate-selected trustee selection process (Raju Narisetti, Shani Evenstein Sigalov, Lorenzo Losa, Kathy Collins, Victoria Doronina and Esra’a Al Shafei) [3], is tasked with providing Board oversight for the 2025 trustee selection process and for keeping the Board informed. More details on the roles of the Elections Committee, Board, and staff are here [4].

Here are the key planned dates:

* May 22 – June 5: Announcement (this communication) and call for questions period [6]
* June 17 – July 1, 2025: Call for candidates
* July 2025: If needed, affiliates vote to shortlist candidates if more than 10 apply [5]
* August 2025: Campaign period
* August – September 2025: Two-week community voting period
* October – November 2025: Background check of selected candidates
* Board’s Meeting in December 2025: New trustees seated

Learn more about the 2025 selection process - including the detailed timeline, the candidacy process, the campaign rules, and the voter eligibility criteria - on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025|[link]]].

'''Call for Questions'''

In each selection process, the community has the opportunity to submit questions for the Board of Trustees candidates to answer. The Election Committee selects questions from the list developed by the community for the candidates to answer. Candidates must answer all the required questions in the application in order to be eligible; otherwise their application will be disqualified. This year, the Election Committee will select 5 questions for the candidates to answer. The selected questions may be a combination of what’s been submitted from the community, if they’re alike or related. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates|[link]]]

'''Election Volunteers'''

Another way to be involved with the 2025 selection process is to be an Election Volunteer. Election Volunteers are a bridge between the Elections Committee and their respective community. They help ensure their community is represented and mobilize them to vote. Learn more about the program and how to join on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Election_volunteers|[link].]]

Thank you!

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2022/Results

[2] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Committee:Elections_Committee_Charter

[3] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Committee_Membership,_December_2024

[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections_committee/Roles

[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/FAQ

[6] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates

Best regards,

Victoria Doronina

Board Liaison to the Elections Committee

Governance Committee&lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 03:08, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:RamzyM (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=28618011 --&gt;

== We are looking for a pilot for our new feature, Favourite Templates ==

Hello everyone! [[meta:Community Tech|Community Tech]] are building a new feature, called [[metawiki:Community_Wishlist/Focus_areas/Template_recall_and_discovery|Favourite Templates]], that will provide a better way for new and experienced contributors to recall and discover templates via the template dialog, that works with both VisualEditor and wikitext editor. We hope this will increase dialog usage and the number of templates added.

Since 2013, experienced volunteers have asked for a more intuitive template selector, exposing popular or most-used templates on the template dialog. At this stage of work, we are focusing on allowing users to put templates in a “favourite” list, so that their reuse will be easier. At a later stage, we will focus on helping users discover or find templates.

We are looking for potential additional testers for Favourite Templates, and we thought you might be interested in trying it out. If so, please let us know if it is the case, we would be happy to set up a pilot. So far, the feature has been deployed successfully on Polish and Arabic Wikipedia, and we’re currently in talks with other projects for expanding the pilot phase.

In addition, we’d love to hear your feedback and ideas for helping people find and insert templates. Some ideas we’ve identified are searching or browsing templates by category, or showing the number of times a template has been transcluded.

Of course, we are ready to answer your questions and to give you all the information you need. Thanks in advance!

—[[User:SWilson (WMF)|SWilson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SWilson (WMF)|talk]]) 05:23, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== DTIC file - Colors in Terrain ==


Is this PD-US-Gov?

https://archive.org/details/DTIC_ADA277204/page/n3/mode/2up

If so I'd like to put it on Wikisource. In addition it would be appreciated if someone with expertise could advise on how to reconstruct the XYZ values from the xy and luminance factors given.  This is so I can make used of the dataset (with citation) in respect of other projects. (I would of course be happy with a relevant color chart being constructed as a semi-formal academic paper over on Wikiversity.)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:52, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think, unfortunately, it is not PD-US-Gov. I don't believe US Gov contractors count as federal employees for the purpose of copyright law, and the [https://www.acquisition.gov/far/27.404-3 Federal Acquisition Regulation 27.404-3] specifically outlines that contractor producers of scientific and technical reports have blanket permission to reassert copyright on their research. That same regulation notes that the free unlimited distribution license which is noted on the document is just to the US Gov; I don't believe the public can tap into that license to redistribute.
:Perhaps someone with more US Gov works experience can chime in though. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:13, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

: Bother. Looks like I'll have to find the original journal articles directly then. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:38, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
: The source dataset seems to be a 1940's translation published in Canada of a 1943 Russian language work, This gets interesting. Can someone dig a little deeper? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Have we lost some Validated Indexes? ==

On 11 Sept. 2024 I updated [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] with our 6500th completed index. I just went to check on progress to the next milestone of 7000 only to discover that there are only 5284 in [[:Category:Index Validated]]. How and when did we lose over 1500 validated Indexes? [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:19, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
: I place my bet on the index lua error from two months and a half ago. We have ~12k indexes that just don't have ''any'' categories (out of 35583 total indexes). I think some of those affected by the bug had all their Page:s already transcluded, and so the Page:s didn't count as orphan and we didn't find them yet. The categorylink table must just have not been updated. Confirmation of this: The first thus uncategorised index reported when I queried was [[Index:! Explosive objects in War in Ukraine, 2022 (01).jpg]]. It had page_links_updated set to 20250311190213, which is 11 march, the date of the lua index error. On a null edit, it disappeared from the list. We probably ought to get 'round to null-editing all these indexes. I'm really busy these days but I could patch up some code next week. 12k is not that much. If we say one null edit/min that makes 12k minutes, or 200 hours, or just over a week. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:07, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (FYI: the complete list is [https://quarry.wmcloud.org/query/94236 here]. To refresh (you need to have forked) just re-submit. Replag aside, should update instantaneously.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:24, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Hadn't thought of that, despite the fact that I've been null-editing Indexes via LonelyPages every three days. I'm part way through G with another update due this evening (my time). Any Index that is not pdf or djvu has been skipped over. Where there are Pages without an Index, I've left them for investigation later. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 17:58, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Any specific reason for skipping non-pdf/djvu indexes? Normally they should work like others. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:01, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Because the listing in LonelyPages is the Page namespace and the link to the Index doesn't appear as a tab in the same way. Thus easier to ignore at present and then deal with as a group later. I much prefer dealing with a single workflow at a time. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::By the way - the orphaned pages listing was actually updated yesterday - it starts again on the first of the month,
::::::I have been trying to reduce the main pages on the orphaned pages list. A number of those have been works transcluded but affected by the index lua error. (And so not linked from anywhere else). I have tried adding other links as well. Of course, this means that main pages affected by the lua error do not show there if they already were linked from elsewhere. --
::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::: @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] and [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] : the query I linked to above ''does'' give an exhaustive list, transclusion or no transclusion, exploiting the fact that broken indexes lost their categories. It also gives the indexes not the pages, so there's no trouble of reaching the index from the pages. If you want, I can reasonably easily get the list into a wikipage with links (as opposed to the quarry result of just page names). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:37, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I've made a list at [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]]. Having already dealt with some, it's reduced in size by ca. 500 from the initial. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:21, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: Would you mind other editors editing that page? So we can remove those that are done and keep track of where we're at. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:41, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I've forked the query to select .djvu indexes (&lt;code&gt;page_title like '%.djvu'&lt;/code&gt;). 3600 are remaining. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 10:52, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::: Welp, we do also have to do the PDFs. It's not a good thing, but many indexes are done PDF. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:54, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I have no problems with other editors editing the page. Keeping track and not duplicating effort is always good. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 22:33, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All DjVu indexes done. The page is updated. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All jpg, jpeg, webm indexes done. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All not .pdf indexes done (6,818). [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]] updated. Now 5,641 pages in Category:Index Validated • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The proposed query has to be modified, ~2000 indexes having categories other than &quot;Index:...&quot;.
::::::::::::I have used as a jointure: 
:::::::::::::&lt;code&gt;and page_id not in ( select cl_from  from categorylinks   where cl_to like 'Index%' )&lt;/code&gt;
::::::::::::to get a new list. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:29, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: &lt;code&gt; AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM categorylinks WHERE cl_from = page_id AND cl_to LIKE 'Index%')&lt;/code&gt; is probably faster. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: As a side note, I found why these indexes have some of their cats but not all: the categories that are added manually are actually out of the template; so when the template broke, they only lost the categories that relied on it; which means the status cats &amp;co, but not the manual ones. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:56, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::All Indexes in the second list are now null-edited and [[:Category:Index Validated]] is at 6953, which approximately what I was expecting to see. There are only 141 in the Validated category that need to have their transclusion status checked. Thanks to {{ping|M-le-mot-dit}} for the assistance on getting all the Indexes null-edited so quickly. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:42, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:The milestone of 7000 Validated indexes was reached yesterday. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 07:57, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (I think it's [[Index:Skyes Picot, The Manchester Guardian, Monday, November 26, 1917, p5.jpg]].) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The Category contains a template ({{tl|Proofreadpage_index_template/testcases}}), so it may be [[Index:The President's Proclamation (Proctor, 1963).jpg]]. Quarry gives 7004 indexes. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Indeed, good catch! :) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:13, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-23 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is now available on all Wikimedia wikis. Editors can use this new extension to create interactive data visualizations like bar, line, area, and pie charts. Charts are designed to replace many of the uses of the legacy [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Graph|Graph extension]].

'''Updates for editors'''
* It is now easier to configure automatic citations for your wiki within the visual editor's [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Citoid/Enabling Citoid on your wiki|citation generator]]. Administrators can now set a default template by using the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;_default&lt;/code&gt; key in the local &lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[MediaWiki:Citoid-template-type-map.json]]&lt;/bdi&gt; page ([[mw:Special:Diff/6969653/7646386|example diff]]). Setting this default will also help to future-proof your existing configurations when [[phab:T347823|new item types]] are added in the future. You can still set templates for individual item types as they will be preferred to the default template. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384709]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:20}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:20|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Starting the week of June 2, bots logging in using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=clientlogin&lt;/code&gt; will fail more often. This is because of stronger protections against suspicious logins. Bots using [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Bot passwords|bot passwords]] or using a loginless authentication method such as [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/OAuth/Owner-only consumers|OAuth]] are not affected. If your bot is not using one of those, you should update it; using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; without a bot password was deprecated [[listarchive:list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/3EEMN7VQX5G7WMQI5K2GP5JC2336DPTD/|in 2016]]. For most bots, this only requires changing what password the bot uses. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T395205]
* From this week, Wikimedia wikis will allow ES2017 features in JavaScript code for official code, gadgets, and user scripts. The most visible feature of ES2017 is &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;code&gt;async&lt;/code&gt;/&lt;code&gt;await&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/bdi&gt; syntax, allowing for easier-to-read code. Until this week, the platform only allowed up to ES2016, and a few months before that, up to ES2015. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T381537]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.4|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* Scholarship applications to participate in the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025|GLAM Wiki Conference 2025]] are now open. The conference will take place from 30 October to 1 November, in Lisbon, Portugal. GLAM contributors who lack the means to support their participation can [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025/Scholarships|apply here]]. Scholarship applications close on June 7th.

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 23:54, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28819186 --&gt;

== Copyright status of a work. ==

This is listed as public domain on Hathi:-
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31210024780379&amp;seq=15

However, it contains apparenty reprints of papers published in other works, which may need additional evalaution.

The author of the papers seems to have been an active Employee at the NBS (later NIST), So can someone make a determination as to this work's potential inclusion in Wikisource, given that the works itself is Federal?. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:00, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}} I've sent the NIST an email, hopefully they reply. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:54, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: The concern is that some of the papers appear to be published in Journals, which given the dates would have had active registrations, (even if the individual author concerned didn't make individual periodical ones.). [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:05, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}}
:This is the response from the NIST:
:&quot;Hi,
:Generally, official writings by federal employees are not subject to copyright protection within the United States (a narrow exception to this policy exists in the case of Standard Reference Data published under the provisions of the Standard Reference Data Act (Public Law 90-396). The Act permits NIST to copyright Standard Reference Data.  Click here for more information.)  However, the government may be able to assert copyright in countries other than the United States.  When official writings by NIST employees, except those covered under the Standard Reference Data Act, are submitted to a non-NIST publication, a statement should be included indicating that the material is not subject to copyright protection within the United States. If you are asked to sign a publication permission form, you should have it reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST prior to signing.  Some journals will accept our copyright form. (In fact, some journals will request this copyright form.) (External co-authors may be asked to sign an agreement transferring their copyright to the publisher, which they may choose to do.)
:Sample statement: Official contribution of the National Institute of Standards and Technology; not subject to copyright in the United States.
:Note that in most instances NIST Research Associates could assert copyright but may have agreed not to assert US copyright in their work done at NIST when they signed their NIST Associate’s Agreement. Whether or not to include the ‘not subject to copyright in the United States’ statement on manuscripts jointly authored by federal NIST employees and NIST Associates is a factual matter to be determined when the publication is drafted.
:If you are asked to sign a publisher’s agreement for your publication that agreement must first be reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.
:If you encounter any problems with a publisher, or need any help, contact the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.&quot;
:I think this is a yes, thoughts? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 11:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: Hmm, so that says NIST Research Associate works without other notices, are possibles. However, in respect of this specifc collection, some of the later articles are from Journals with their own copyrights and thus can't be included (because of the Journal Copyright, rather than the contributors.). On that basis, the original papers will have to be tracked down and evaluated on a paper by paper basis. 
:BTW for a Government agency, that response is suprisingly clear for our purposes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Colour vs b/w image? ==

Hi, I was finding the image for [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Taming_Liquid_Hydrogen_The_Centaur_Upper_Stage_Rocket.pdf/58]. For this text, instead of extracting from the low quality PDF, since they are all catalogued NASA images, I have just looked up the image IDs and downloaded them directly from the NASA/DVIDS website. However, for this specific page, the image is black and white, but I found a high-quality colour version at [https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/historic-facilities/rocket-engine-test-facility/retf-staff/]. What should I do? Use the colour version as is or convert it to black/white first? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:29, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: My 2¢ would be convert it to black &amp; white, as that's what the source has. The low-quality is very probably due to bad scanning. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 22:15, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== 'Indexes validated in [month]' category ==

Why does [[Index:Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf]] appear in [[:Category:Indexes validated in June 2025]], yet [[Index:Reference to some of the works executed in stained glass - William Raphael Eginton.pdf]] does not? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:46, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

:I expect it is because the former has an  entry in the box &quot;Validation date&quot; and the latter has that box blank. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:59, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]], @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] It is not longer blank now! But yes, you do have to manually fill in the validation date box, by editing the index page. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:01, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. (Though the index page was amended to show all validated in May.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:18, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:::[https://petscan.wmcloud.org/?psid=35284922 Petscan] lists 136 indexes in the above situation. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::I've sorted 96 of them, but need to call it a night. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 10:14, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Monthly Challenge colors on dark mode ==

For some reason the colors for the to fix header and the to proofread headers are swapped on dark mode. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:34, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: There where some muck-ups in the templates between the statuses (essentially, the classes were swapped and so the colors were swapped again to make it right). Caused some confusion when adding dark mode compat. Should be solved. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::Sorry for the mess up and thanks for the fix by the way! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Thinking REALLY big.. ==

Back in 2020, Fae mirrored PDF's of copyright records on IA to Commons.

Is there a contributor here that is willing to set up Index: here for post 1950's volumes?  

The thought was that it might be a way of finding works that might expire in the next few years, and if the renewals were looked into 
post 1930(rolling) volumes that might also be in scope for the period 1940 to 1950.  Other publications note a Fourth Series which continued to 1982(?) but those entries should already be in the online system. 

&quot;Mars-shot&quot; project, but worth it, if the transcription generated can be fed back into Wikidata as well.  This wouldn't be a project I'd focus on personally, my watchlist is already at 'life's work' length, but I felt this was something to be worked out. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Get IIIF working again. ==
Previously, inductiveload had a script ([[User:Inductiveload/jump_to_file]]) which helped improve the scans presented, by pulling them directly from hathi or IA, rather than  using the lower quality PDF present on Wikisource. 

Due to changes at IA ( URL in the script needs updating), this script stopped functioning.  Can someone PLEASE look into getting this working again, as it greatly assists in the transcription of works, where the PDF quality is exceptionally poor due to over compression or otherwise?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:04, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: As I already told you, the issue is with a line that has to be changed in the toolforge tool's code. See [[phab:T356227|T356227]]. This requires usurpation of the tool (given IL is gone at least for now); which is not easy to get. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:30, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: Thank you. So what could be a useful project is effectively stalled, because of 3 letters in old code, which can't be easily updated because the tool maintainer is absent. {{ping|Sohom Datta}} Another contributor attempted to fix this by patching the url on the Wikisource, but I couldn't get that technique to work.  The endpoint that the toolforge script uses now gives Error 500 suggesting it wasn't a priority to repair or was migrated.)..  As detailed in the phabricator ticket it's 4 characters in a single file that need changing.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:58, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: The project I refer to is above. a Marshsot project on the Catalog of Copyright Entries. (Yes I has strait jacket to hand! :lol:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:39, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

When 5 years after a massive upload, you find it isn't in a good quality:(.. 

I'm going to need some time to consider if I even attempt to work with this, and I am wondering if it's worth it, unless the PDF quality issue is resolved. Others here are working on making the hi-resimage loader work again, provided of course the endpoint it uses remains available. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 17:12, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-24 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product|Trust and Safety Product team]] is finalizing work needed to roll out [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|temporary accounts]] on large Wikipedias later this month. The team has worked with stewards and other users with extended rights to predict and address many use cases that may arise on larger wikis, so that community members can continue to effectively moderate and patrol temporary accounts. This will be the second of three phases of deployment – the last one will take place in September at the earliest. For more information about the recent developments on the project, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts/Updates|see this update]]. If you have any comments or questions, write on the [[mw:Talk:Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|talk page]], and [[m:Event:CEE Catch up Nr. 10 (June 2025)|join a CEE Catch Up]] this Tuesday.

'''Updates for editors'''
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]] The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Watchlist expiry|watchlist expiry]] feature allows editors to watch pages for a limited period of time. After that period, the page is automatically removed from your watchlist. Starting this week, you can set a preference for the default period of time to watch pages. The [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist-pageswatchlist|preferences]] also allow you to set different default watch periods for editing existing pages, pages you create, and when using rollback. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T265716]
[[File:Talk pages default look (April 2023).jpg|thumb|alt=Screenshot of the visual improvements made on talk pages|Example of a talk page with the new design, in French.]]
* The appearance of talk pages will change at almost all Wikipedias ([[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/19|some]] have already received this design change, [[phab:T379264|a few]] will get these changes later). You can read details about the changes [[diffblog:2024/05/02/making-talk-pages-better-for-everyone/|on ''Diff'']]. It is possible to opt out of these changes [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion|in user preferences]] (&quot;{{int:discussiontools-preference-visualenhancements}}&quot;). [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T319146][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T392121]
* Users with specific extended rights (including administrators, bureaucrats, checkusers, oversighters, and stewards) can now have IP addresses of all temporary accounts [[phab:T358853|revealed automatically]] during time-limited periods where they need to combat high-speed account-hopping vandalism. This feature was requested by stewards. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T386492]
* This week, the Moderator Tools and Machine Learning teams will continue the rollout of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], releasing it to several more Wikipedias. This filter utilizes the Revert Risk model, which was created by the Research team, to highlight edits that are likely to be reverted and help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic contributions. The feature will be rolled out to the following Wikipedias: {{int:project-localized-name-afwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bnwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-cywiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-hawwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-iswiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-kkwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-simplewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-trwiki/en}}. The rollout will continue in the coming weeks to include [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|the rest of the Wikipedias in this project]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T391964]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* AbuseFilter editors active on Meta-Wiki and large Wikipedias are kindly asked to update AbuseFilter to make it compatible with temporary accounts. A link to the instructions and the private lists of filters needing verification are [[phab:T369611|available on Phabricator]].
* Lua modules now have access to the name of a page's associated thumbnail image, and on [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/operations/mediawiki-config/+/2e4ab14aa15bb95568f9c07dd777065901eb2126/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php#10849 some wikis] to the WikiProject assessment information. This is possible using two new properties on [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#added-by-extensions|mw.title objects]], named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageImage&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageAssessments&lt;/code&gt;. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T131911][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T380122]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.5|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 01:16, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28846858 --&gt;
:NOTE: The default watchlist expiry time feature isn't available on here and it isn't available on enwiki or commons either. It ''is'' available on mediawikiwiki though, and I'm not sure why. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: See [[wikitech:Deployment train#Groups]]. In a nutshell: mediawiki updates are progressively rolled out in groups; we're in group 2, so we get them on wednesdays; as opposed to mediawikiwiki being in group 1 (tuesday) and enwiki being in group 3 (thursday). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family (archive.org)]] ==

This states that the source was ftp://ia340915.us.archive.org/1/items/LovecraftInPdfFormat/a_jermyn.pdf - trying that link did not work for me, and trying to find this item on Internet Archive gave me nothing. Anyone have any ideas where this source might be ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: That link uses the FTP protocol. Switching to http or https gives a 500 error.
: It also is a link to the direct file as opposed to the IA item.
: However, I can't find any item with such a name either.
: Possibly it was pulled out of IA's collections, but that would seem strange (pre-1930 publication). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. Wikipedia indicates that the story was only published under that title in 1986, so I assume that it was taken from a later collection. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:20, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Ah, that would explain IA pulling it out of their collections. In the last few months they've pulled out a lot of stuff which was plausibly PD (probably afraid of getting sued to death). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:25, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::::And, of course, shows a danger in not uploading the scan to Commons or here.
::::We now have a scan-backed copy of the story from the original Weird Tales printing, and a Weird Tales reprint available for transcription. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Bayonne Times need a link to Wikidata ==

Can someone link The Bayonne Times here at Wikisource to Wikidata Q118610753. Usually a bot does this, so if you see an error, let me know what I did wrong. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 14:58, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}}. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 15:11, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: (Heads up - the bot runs weekly, on saturday evenings UTC. So for this page, which was linked yesterday on the 9th, it would have done it next sat (the 14th).) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== How to improve this table ==

Hi, I made a table at [[Page:A History Of Mathematical Notations Vol I (1928).djvu/35]]. Whilst it works, it probably is quite a bodge solution and probably isn't compatible with mobile. Could anyone give some ideas as to how to improve it? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 17:48, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Matrix|Matrix]] I am not sure if all tables can be made safe for mobile, so I am not sure exactly what to recommend. If you concern is having a table altogether, you could try individual lines of text, with [[:Template:Phantom]] to align the individual terms (alignment would not be preserved on all screens, but it would stop the font size shrinking when viewed in small windows, as presently). Also, very minor, but why call &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Right|}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; on cell contents, when you can apply &lt;nowiki&gt;{{ts|ar}}|&lt;/nowiki&gt;? Maybe it is identical, but it just seemed a little odd. P.S. There is also a quotation mark missing on the last 8 on the page, but I am not sure what the 8 is/isn't supposed to be aligned with (the 1/7th, and the 5,2,1 look like they are in slightly different columns). Up to you where you place it. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Template:Id ==

I have no idea why this template is the ''number one'' spot on [[Special:WantedTemplates]] (all such links are in the Page namespace). My guess is that it is somehow being transcluded by means of a different, broken template. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:12, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:It appears to be something to do with {{tl|float left}} after ShakespeareFan00's last fiddle. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: Due to a typo in [[Special:PermaLink/15019930]], {{tl|float left}} briefly called {{tl|id}} instead of using {{code|{{{id}}}}}. By the time it was corrected, it got the time to spread out it these 3k-ish pages. Discussed this with them back in April; we were hoping that MW would realise and purge pagelinks. Manifestly not. I'd say ignore it? Except if someone fells like going on a null-editing spree again. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:54, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Jersey Journal disconnected from Wikidata ==

You can just restore the deletion at Q7743126. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 20:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{done}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 13:28, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>26hwiufwf943x8bxe6jsdfxxz6tq6hb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131795</id>
      <parentid>15131552</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:55:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Duckmather</username>
        <id>3067252</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Tech News: 2025-24 */ Reply</comment>
      <origin>15131795</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="109747" sha1="j4dcknx088joaev7nkgobnyo2rszvlz" xml:space="preserve">{{process header
 | title    = Scriptorium 
 | section  =
 | previous = [[Wikisource:Index/Community|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives|Archives]]
 | shortcut = [[WS:S]]&lt;br/&gt;[[WS:SCRIPTORIUM]]
 | notes    = The '''[[wikt:scriptorium|Scriptorium]]''' is Wikisource's community discussion page. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[{{fullurl:Wikisource:Scriptorium|action=edit&amp;section=new start}} a new one]&lt;/span&gt;; please see '''[[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]'''.

The [[Wikisource:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' noticeboard]] can be used where appropriate. Some announcements and newsletters are subscribed to [[/Announcements/]].

Project members can often be found in the [[liberachat:wikisource|#wikisource]] IRC channel [https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat?channel=#wikisource webclient]. For discussion related to the entire project (not just the English chapter), please discuss at the [[:mul:Scriptorium|multilingual Wikisource]]. There are currently {{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}} [[Special:ActiveUsers|active users]] here.
{{/Navigation}}
}}
{{autoarchive resolved section
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 | level          = 2
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 | timecompare    = &lt;!--allowing for archiving without resolved--&gt;
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[[Category:Bots/Archival|Scriptorium ]]
[[Category:Wikisource|Scriptorium]]
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
&lt;!-- Interwiki links --&gt;
[[mul:Scriptorium]]
&lt;!-- Interwiki links --&gt;

= Announcements =

= Proposals =
== Overriding Vector 2022 paragraph spacing ==
Since the forced deployment in November 2024, and multiple discussions including [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-01#Paragraph_spacing], [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding V22 paragraph spacing|2]], [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Switching to the Vector 2022 skin: the final date|3]], and [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Deployment of Vector 2022|4]], the idea of overriding the excessive paragraph spacing from V22 was floated multiple times. V22 raised the 0.9em spacing between paragraphs to 1.5em, which broke content that expected text to have similar size across skins (notably but not only {{tl|overfloat image}}).

This proposal is therefore to add to [[MediaWiki:Gadget-Site.css]]:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.mw-body p {
    margin:0.4em 0 0.5em 0;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Technical notes:
* this should have neither false positives nor false negatives given that &lt;code&gt;.mw-body p&lt;/code&gt; is the exact same selector used by V22.
* if site.css is loaded before the skin css, then we can just add a &lt;code&gt;html &lt;/code&gt; at the start of the selector: will not change the selection (given everything's in an html), and will give it more specificity (0,1,2 vs 0,1,1).
* 0.4em 0 0.5em 0 is exactly how it was in V10.
* this may stop working one day whenever WMF decides to IDHT another change through; but so can the entire website, and at least we'll have a fix. If it stops working, we can easily remove it and go back to our current state of having broken content.
— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} as proposer. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}}, strongly. Thanks for starting the vote! --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:51, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:58, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:09, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

= Bot approval requests =
* See [[Wikisource:Bots]]  for information about applying for a bot status
* See [[Wikisource:Bot requests]] if you require an existing bot to undertake a task

==[[User:333Bot]]==
(See also [[#Thinking of an anti-linkrot bot]].)

For non-scan backed works, sometimes the original webpage disappears and we lose the source. This task would archive automatically sources in new mainspace/talk pages at the wayback machine, and add {{tl|wml}}.

To avoid archiving vandalism, it would only do this on pages older than a week. (It won't search beyond the 2000th created page.)

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. Source's at [[User:Alien333/test#Link archiving]].

The idea would be to run this daily. Test edits: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14252&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001840] and [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14251&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001919]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:59, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
: As nearly two weeks have passed without objections, I activated this task per [[WS:BOT]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:59, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The run is over. Before launching the cronjob I will change the code to prevent it from archiving links in mainspace works' content (there are few valid reasons for extlinks in works; but there are some). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:48, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Did that, started cronjob. Will run at 16h14 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Note: For the last few days, it was stopped by an IA error on a certain page. I have now made it not crash on IA errors. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:03, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

==[[User:333Bot]] 2==
(See also [[#Seeking feedback on bot task to tag untagged deletion nominations]] for details and discussion.)

Works proposed for deletion at [[WS:PD]] or &lt;s&gt;[[WS:PD]]&lt;/s&gt;&lt;ins&gt;[[WS:CV]]&lt;/ins&gt; should be accordingly tagged. Occasionally, people forget to tag them. This task would locate these and tag them.

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. The code's at [[User:Alien333/test#Nomination_tagging]]. It would run daily. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:WS:PD or WS:PD ? Aren't they the same ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:24, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, you're right. Got mixed up. Meant PD and CV. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Heads up: I started the cronjob. (No untagged nominations rn, so may do no edits.) Runs will occur at about 5h40 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:27, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

=Repairs (and moves)=

'''Designated for requests related to the repair of works (and scans of works) presented on Wikisource'''

See also [[Wikisource:Scan lab]]

== Explanatory Notes Indices ==
Please move the following indices to their new corresponding filename
* [[Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
[[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:42, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: Errr. Feel free to trout me, but I don't understand what you're asking for.
: As in, move which pages to which titles? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::* Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-16 qp).pdf
::* Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 (UKPGA 2003-31 qp).pdf
::* Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Defamation Act 2013 (UKPGA 2013-26 qp).pdf
::* Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Modern Slavery Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-30 qp).pdf
::* Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Live Music Act 2012 (UKPGA 2012-2 qp).pdf
::* Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 (UKPGA 2011-14 qp).pdf
::This is to match filename move at commons. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:29, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

= Other discussions =
== [[Contra-Props]] ==

This article was published in a British magazine in 1941; the author died in 1946. Would this be still in copyright ? Or PD ?

(This was the subject of a previous query here which got archived without being answered - [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2019-09#1941_UK_publication]]) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:51, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
: Looks copyrighted to me. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:31, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
: Unless there's some reason they count as a US work, all UK works were restored by the URAA. The few exceptions are either Crown Copyright or were published by authors who died before 1926.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:26, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - I have put it as apparant copyright violation - [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions#Contra-Props]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That page has now been deleted so this query can be closed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:48, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Manual indexing of news articles versus Automatic indexing of news articles ==

I want to convert [[Brooklyn Eagle]] to an automatic-index instead of the hand-curated index. The hand curated index looks pretty, but is always missing articles. We can have [[The Brooklyn Eagle]] as the pretty one. See how it is done at [[Jersey Journal]], scroll to the bottom and there is a link to the pretty hand-curated list, missing many articles. This is similar to how Commons does it, you have automatic index at Category:Foo, and hand curated one as Foo, that is always missing entries. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 17:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:More automated curation of Periodicals and Newspapers on this site in the future would in general be a good thing - there's a lot of good work being done across a lot of these works but the process of creating the main-space pages for them can get very tedious and repetitive. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose had to write janky programs to semi-automate their individual workflows for some of these works.
:Your idea of a distinction between '''The Somewhere Argus''' and '''Somewhere Argus''' is interesting (and as I'm not a big user of wikimedia, not something I've particularly noticed on that site), but it doesn't seem particularly intuitive to me that one should be a raw list and another a curated view (or which way round those should be, and it seems quite a big departure from how work is generally presented here. Is it done anywhere else on this site? In the past I've seen a lot of resistance to the same work being included in different main-space pages. 
:In terms of a curated view, that may be better done by creating a Portal for that work. For example, when I worked through the July-Dec 1914 volumes of [[Punch]], I created a summary of all of the books reviewed in that volume which I put here: [[Portal:Punch/Reviewed Books]], that wouldn't really have been appropriate to put in the main page. 
:Alternatively, what's stopping you from having a list of highlights and the automatic index linked from the same page? That's effectively what [[The New York Times]] does - some of the issues are highlighted (those for which enough work has been done for them to have a complete contents page) but for the rest, there are year-based automatic lists using the {{tl|header periodical}} template. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 09:56, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
:* You are right, &quot;Portal:Brooklyn Eagle&quot; would be best for the hand curated ones, we should standardize on that, and migrate older ones to that format. Currently there are six styles of indexes for magazines and newspapers. There were at least ten different styles before I tried to standardized them. I eliminated the ones that were experimental one-of-a-kind ones. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 19:25, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Don't we already have a standard format, as documented at [[Wikisource:Periodical guidelines]] ? —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:24, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:By the way, I fixed [[Jersey Journal]]. There shouldn't be two separate mainspace pages for the same work, so I deleted the one that was simply a dump of subpages, and replaced it with the properly structured list that was previously located at [[The Jersey Journal]].
:In general, the automatic subpage listing should only be used as a temporary stop-gap until a proper page listing can be created. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:31, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::To your original point though - if you can find a way to automatically list all subpages, whether or not they have already been created, and in the correct order they appear in the publication, then that would be amazing and definitely we'd all make extensive use of such a system. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:14, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
Automate portals, have them point to Main.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:50, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

==QuickSurveys==
Apparently some new “feature” has been forced upon us again. These are annoying pop-up boxes which really mess up the formatting, especially if whatever text at the top of the page is centered (as it often is). Can this be disabled by default for everyone? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:32, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Dropped a task ([[phab:T393436]]) to ask them to not barge into the content like this, but I don't have much hope.
: And no, this extension and its parameters are a wmf thing, so we can't really do anything on our own. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:I have no clue what you're talking about. Can you tell me the steps to reproduce this issue? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:49, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::I can see it on any page that I open (and it is very disturbing), so if you do not, you might have it disabled in your preferences. See also the screenshots uploaded to the above linked phabricator task. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I don't. I'm trying to figure out which settings the original person has to see why he sees it, but if you're seeing it also, that is odd to me. I'm not sure why anyone is seeing this. I'm not. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 12:19, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::In the preferences under the &quot;User profile&quot; tab there is a section &quot;QuickSurvey extension&quot; where the surveys can be set as hidden. Currently logged out users also do not see it, but if this feature stays, we can imo expect it will be used to display messages (e.g. pleas for funding) to them as well. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: These things are highly targetable and targeted, see [[mw:Extension:QuickSurveys]]. Probably you aren't counted as an active patroller here (and this precise survey is about patrolling tools). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:57, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just an example of what I am seeing: [https://phab.wmfusercontent.org/file/data/wvrcadows4ftokyz3lyg/PHID-FILE-udsgsisdj2hq2uuva46d/screenshot3jpg.jpg] --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:06, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
*Another awful example: [[Charter Granted by Queen Elizabeth to the East India Company]]. This time, the pop-up is within the delete template. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:59, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*: Well, it just barges into the first thing it finds. They don't appear to be actively paying attention to tasks, and I don't expect them to pay attention to user feedback either, so this probably won't be fixed for a good while. My two cents are go disable it in your settings.
*: At least we've got the comfort most users don't see it.... But of course they make whatever surveys they want targeting whoever they want, so it's not that unlikely that this will become a problem for everyone in the near future.
*: Aaaahh, deploying breaking changes with no discussion, no warning, no community opt-out, and without listening to feedback. Becoming a habit, isn't it? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:43, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::It's showing up for me too.  Once I disable it on one project, then I get it on another.  Those of us who regularly visit multiple projects are going to be the most annoyed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:50, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::: Did you check the global settings? Perhaps there you can opt-out for all projects. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::I don't even have the option of using the same skin globally. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:28, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::: That's weird. So like, when you go [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-rendering-skin here], you don't see a &quot;Skin&quot;, a checkbox on whether to make it a default setting, and radio buttons with the options? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:20, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Might I suggest the following solution? : &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#bodyContent .ext-quick-survey-panel {display:none;}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 00:57, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::There's a setting to always hide them; the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole (except through site css, but Xover is the only active intadmin and has shown much reticence to adding that kind of stuff (see [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding_V22_paragraph_spacing]])). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:18, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: If that is an issue, we can simply come to a consensus, as a community, that the QS system needs to be blocked, and direct him to make the appropriate changes reflecting that consensus. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 12:35, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:Yes, the reticence of one admin should not override community consensus, and Xover knows that as well as the rest of us :) (that being said, I think a proper proposal would be necessary to determine consensus for something like this) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:13, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::Is amending the user profile, as stated by Jan above, not a good enough solution ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:11, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::: From the technical standpoint, yes, changing site CSS is 99% sure to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:::As Alien333 said, the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole - and you can't do that with the user profile. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:00, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Second pair of eyes for unclear letter ==

At [[Page:Poems Hornblower.djvu/110]], the last letter of {{tqi|Draw with their very breath—the poisonous faith}} is not super clear. I think I see the beginning of the arch of an h going right from the vertical bar after the t, but I'd appreciate if someone could give a quick look and confirm or not. (Compare also the {{tqi|faith}} from {{tqi|The world's cold faith,}} a few lines above.) Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:51, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:I think your assessment is good.  &quot;poisonous faith&quot; works with &quot;inglorious views&quot; and the soul straying from a &quot;diviner walk&quot;.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 21:02, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
::I agree; scans of different copies of the same book show the same misprinting ([https://books.google.com/books?id=ox1kAAAAcAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 BL], [https://books.google.com/books?id=fCQOAAAAQAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 Bod]), but the start of the arch of the 'h' is just visible in all. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:40, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to both. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:16, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== FYI: Wikisource: Preserving the Past for the Future ==

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2025/05/13/wikisource-preserving-the-past-for-the-future/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
*Who is Nanteza Divine Gabriella? I don’t recognize the name. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:11, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:* [[User:DivineGaby]] [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:53, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

== Call for Candidates for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
The results of voting on the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement Guidelines and Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) Charter is [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Annual review/2025#Results|available on Meta-wiki]].

You may now [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025/Candidates|submit your candidacy to serve on the U4C]] through 29 May 2025 at 12:00 UTC. Information about [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|eligibility, process, and the timeline are on Meta-wiki]]. Voting on candidates will open on 1 June 2025 and run for two weeks, closing on 15 June 2025 at 12:00 UTC.

If you have any questions, you can ask on [[m:Talk:Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|the discussion page for the election]]. -- in cooperation with the U4C, &lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[m:User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[m:User_talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]])&lt;/bdi&gt; 22:07, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Keegan (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=28618011 --&gt;

== Billingual template with Welsh Parliament Acts ==

The formatting problems that @[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] complained about in [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] could be fixed by using the {{tl|Bilingual}} template, however this creates its own formatting problems which I have shown at [[Wikisource:Sandbox]]. Additionally, the page numbers don't match up because the page numbers go up every second page due to the welsh version of a page using the same page number as the corresponding english version. Does anyone know how to fix this. 

Additionally, could someone make a version of the Bilingual template that could be more useful for longer works such as [[Index:Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2023 (ASC 2023-3 kp).pdf]] so whoever ends up working on that doesn't have to use the template over 200 times in one page. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:33, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:Not sure about the code for this, but would it be possible to transclude multiple pages at once like [[Template:Side by side]] using the &lt;code&gt;&lt;pages&gt;&lt;/code&gt; syntax, but reset the display each page so that the first lines of each page line up? I'm sure there's some struggle with that preserving the indents using colons like appears when using [[Template:Bilingual]]... [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 21:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
::The current practice for bitexts like this, is to transclude the English here, and the alternate pages at the Wikisource for the other language.  The two can then be linked to each other in the notes section of the header.  There are some exceptions here, and you can see an example at [[Modern Czech Poetry/October sonnet]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The Welsh elements of [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] have been moved over to Welsh Wikisource, and the pages have been linked in Wikidata and mentioned in the notes section! [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:29, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[:File:Weird Tales Volume 13 Number 06 (1929-06).djvu]] ==

This was originally uploaded to Commons with pages that were still in copyright redacted. Those are now out of copyright. What is the best way to restore them ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:19, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:Upload a new version of the file over the top of what's there. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:52, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
: That's assuming that placeholders were left. If not, then we need to first shift the Page:s to give room for the added pages. I can do that; ping me if it's needed. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:15, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you both. Yes, on this one, there are blank pages where the text was redacted, so taht should work fine. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:03, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== HathiTrust ==

[[Help:Image extraction#HathiTrust]] no longer works me; when I try running it, I just get Error 403.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 08:27, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I haven't tried any programs myself, but there are a few image downloader programs for HathiTrust available on GitHub, [https://github.com/Addono/HathiTrust-downloader this one for example]. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of HathiTrust can vouch for a particular method. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:22, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Linking to Explanatory Notes for UK Legislation ==

@[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] @[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] I've seen 3 different ways of linking to Explanatory Notes currently seen at [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]], [[Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011]], and [[Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015]] and I feel like we should have some consistency with how we link to Explanatory Notes. How should we go about linking to Explanatory Notes. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:25, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I did Welsh as I did because the King's Printer version included a formal title page including the mention of the explanatory notes. With Fixed Term Parliaments, it doesn't have that page, so the inclusion of the note makes sense. We could add that to ones that do have the title page. I personally don't know if using the &quot;next&quot; parameter like in Specialist Printing is best, because it prevents us from using that parameter to link to the next act that year, if that's something we wanted to do. I know it's done in some other countries that have full years of acts transcluded. Similar issue in Fixed Term Parliaments using &quot;next&quot; for the Schedules.&lt;br&gt;
:I think best is to link things mentioned within the title/TOC like in [[Scotland Act 1998]], including Explanatory Notes if there, and then we can mention Explanatory Notes in the &quot;notes&quot; of the header, and leave &quot;previous&quot; and &quot;next&quot; for linking to surrounding acts. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:48, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== Page marked historical ==

Heads up that I tagged [[Wikisource:Purchases]] with {{tl|historical}} since it hasn't actually been in use in several years. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:48, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: This project page is interesting and was unknown to me until just now. It is very similar to an idea that [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] and I have discussed recently, which would involve creating a centralized page in the Project namespace for requests for scans to be made where no scans appear to be accessible online (which would replace [[User:TE(æ)A,ea./Requests]] in their personal user space). My suggested name was either [[WS:Requests for scans]], or making that a section of the [[WS:Scan Lab]]. FYI, because of the inter-library loan (ILL) system, very few books would actually need to be ''bought'' in order to be scanned anymore (as far as I understand it), but buying should definitely be an option for those who are willing to donate the material, in cases where ILL is not possible. All in all, the Purchases page has merit conceptually, but in its current implementation inserting {{tl|historical}} was the right move. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:00, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-21 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The Editing Team and the Machine Learning Team are working on a new check for newcomers: [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check|Peacock check]]. Using a prediction model, this check will encourage editors to improve the tone of their edits, using artificial intelligence. We invite volunteers to review the first version of the Peacock language model for the following languages: Arabic, Spanish, Portuguese, English, and Japanese. Users from these wikis interested in reviewing this model are [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check/model test|invited to sign up at MediaWiki.org]]. The deadline to sign up is on May 23, which will be the start date of the test.

'''Updates for editors'''

* From May 20, 2025, [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Oversight policy|oversighters]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Meta:CheckUsers|checkusers]] will need to have their accounts secured with two-factor authentication (2FA) to be able to use their advanced rights. All users who belong to these two groups and do not have 2FA enabled have been informed. In the future, this requirement may be extended to other users with advanced rights. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Mandatory two-factor authentication for users with some extended rights|Learn more]].
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]]  [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|Multiblocks]] will begin mass deployment by the end of the month: all non-Wikipedia projects plus Catalan Wikipedia will adopt Multiblocks in the week of May 26, while all other Wikipedias will adopt it in the week of June 2. Please [[m:Talk:Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|contact the team]] if you have concerns. Administrators can test the new user interface now on your own wiki by browsing to [{{fullurl:Special:Block|usecodex=1}} {{#special:Block}}?usecodex=1], and can test the full multiblocks functionality [[testwiki:Special:Block|on testwiki]]. Multiblocks is the feature that makes it possible for administrators to impose different types of blocks on the same user at the same time. See the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|help page]] for more information. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* Later this week, the [[{{#special:SpecialPages}}]] listing of almost all special pages will be updated with a new design. This page has been [[phab:T219543|redesigned]] to improve the user experience in a few ways, including: The ability to search for names and aliases of the special pages, sorting, more visible marking of restricted special pages, and a more mobile-friendly look. The new version can be [https://meta.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:SpecialPages previewed] at Beta Cluster now, and feedback shared in the task. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219543]
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is being enabled on more wikis. For a detailed list of when the extension will be enabled on your wiki, please read the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart/Project#Deployment Timeline|deployment timeline]].
* [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Main Page|Wikifunctions]] will be deployed on May 27 on five Wiktionaries: [[wikt:ha:|Hausa]], [[wikt:ig:|Igbo]], [[wikt:bn:|Bengali]], [[wikt:ml:|Malayalam]], and [[wikt:dv:|Dhivehi/Maldivian]]. This is the second batch of deployment planned for the project. After deployment, the projects will be able to call [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Introduction|functions from Wikifunctions]] and integrate them in their pages. A function is something that takes one or more inputs and transforms them into a desired output, such as adding up two numbers, converting miles into metres, calculating how much time has passed since an event, or declining a word into a case. Wikifunctions will allow users to do that through a simple call of [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Catalogue|a stable and global function]], rather than via a local template.
* Later this week, the Wikimedia Foundation will publish a hub for [[diffblog:2024/07/09/on-the-value-of-experimentation/|experiments]]. This is to showcase and get user feedback on product experiments. The experiments help the Wikimedia movement [[diffblog:2023/07/13/exploring-paths-for-the-future-of-free-knowledge-new-wikipedia-chatgpt-plugin-leveraging-rich-media-social-apps-and-other-experiments/|understand new users]], how they interact with the internet and how it could affect the Wikimedia movement. Some examples are [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Generated Video|generated video]], the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Roblox game|Wikipedia Roblox speedrun game]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Discord bot|the Discord bot]].
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:29}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:29|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, there was a bug with creating an account using the API, which has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T390751]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Gadgets and user scripts that interact with [[{{#special:Block}}]] may need to be updated to work with the new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|manage blocks interface]]. Please review the [[mw:Help:Manage blocks/Developers|developer guide]] for more information. If you need help or are unable to adapt your script to the new interface, please let the team know on the [[mw:Help talk:Manage blocks/Developers|talk page]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.title&lt;/code&gt; object allows you to get information about a specific wiki page in the [[w:en:Wikipedia:Lua|Lua]] programming language. Starting this week, a new property will be added to the object, named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;isDisambiguationPage&lt;/code&gt;. This property allows you to check if a page is a disambiguation page, without the need to write a custom function. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T71441]
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|15px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] User script developers can use a [[toolforge:gitlab-content|new reverse proxy tool]] to load javascript and css from [[gitlab:|gitlab.wikimedia.org]] with &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.loader.load&lt;/code&gt;. The tool's author hopes this will enable collaborative development workflows for user scripts including linting, unit tests, code generation, and code review on &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;gitlab.wikimedia.org&lt;/bdi&gt; without a separate copy-and-paste step to publish scripts to a Wikimedia wiki for integration and acceptance testing. See [[wikitech:Tool:Gitlab-content|Tool:Gitlab-content on Wikitech]] for more information.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.2|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* The 12th edition of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wiki Workshop 2025|Wiki Workshop 2025]], a forum that brings together researchers that explore all aspects of Wikimedia projects, will be held virtually on 21-22 May. Researchers can [https://pretix.eu/wikimedia/wikiworkshop2025/ register now].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 23:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
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== RfC ongoing regarding Abstract Wikipedia (and your project) ==

&lt;div lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;
''(Apologies for posting in English, if this is not your first language)''

Hello all! We opened a discussion on Meta about a very delicate issue for the development of [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]]: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. Since some of the hypothesis involve your project, we wanted to hear your thoughts too. 

We want to make the decision process clear: we do not yet know which option we want to use, which is why we are consulting here. We will take the arguments from the Wikimedia communities into account, and we want to consult with the different communities and hear arguments that will help us with the decision. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

You can read the various hypothesis and have your say at [[:m:Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]]. Thank you in advance! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|&lt;span class=&quot;signature-talk&quot;&gt;{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}&lt;/span&gt;]]) 15:27, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;/div&gt;
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== Weird Tales file and index with incorrect name ==

[[Index:Weird Tales Volume 02 Number 2 (1937-02).djvu]] should say Volume 29. Do you think I should ask for the file on Commons to be moved, and then to have the index and pages here moved ? Or just leave it as it is ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:15, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
: Given some of it is already transcluded, and that the index is not exposed to the end reader, I'd say leaving a comment like {{tqi|(typo in file name)}} in the index title field would be enough of a clarification. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 04:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - thanks. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:39, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== Official Launch of The Million Wiki Project ==

We are thrilled to announce the official launch of [[m:The_Million_Wiki_Project|The Million Wiki Project!]]
[[File:Million Wiki Logo - Colored.svg|200px|right]]
Our mission is to enrich Wikimedia projects with high-quality and diverse content related to the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region. This initiative focuses on creating new articles, multimedia, structured data, and more, covering topics from MENA countries, communities, and diaspora worldwide.

'''Who Can Participate?'''&lt;br&gt;
All registered Wikimedians are welcome to join! Whether you're an individual contributor or part of an organization, your support is valuable. We encourage content creation in any of the six official UN languages (Arabic, English, French, Russian, Spanish, and soon Chinese).

'''What Kind of Content Are We Looking For?'''

* New Wikipedia articles focused on MENA topics
* Multimedia contributions on Wikimedia Commons (photos, videos)
* Structured data for Wikidata
* Language entries on Wiktionary
* Public domain texts on Wikisource

Note: Make sure your content follows local Wikimedia guidelines and licensing policies, including Freedom of Panorama for media files.

Join us in bridging content gaps and showcasing the richness of the MENA region on Wikimedia platforms! &lt;br&gt;
Stay tuned for more updates and participation guidelines. [[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 09:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== New texts list ==

Does a work count as &quot;complete&quot; for the purposes of the new texts list if the book has an index which has not been transcribed nor transcluded ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:56, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
: No. There have been multiple discussions, notably at [[Template talk:New texts]], where a consensus emerged that a work must be proofread and transcluded (but that there was not a need for validation). If you find an unproofread/untranscluded work, you can remove it.
: Sometimes sub-works that are works in their own right without the others (such a play in a collection of plays) also get listed on new text; for such works, it looks like the pratice is to only require that their part of the index be proofread and transcluded. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Radio Times ==

Please join the discussion at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:35, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Beginner's guide to copyright missing a key issue ==

Please could someone add a bullet point to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] about what happens regarding the hosting of scans of works which are considered out-of-copyright by this Wikisource, but not by Wikimedia Commons (for example, where they are still in copyright in Europe, but not the US)? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:30, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

:That's not a copyright concern, but a compatibility concern, so it's covered at [[Help:Licensing compatibility]], which is linked from the bottom of the page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:55, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::It is a copyright concern, and is not about licensing.
::The page to which I referred is styled as a guide for ''Beginners'', and is where a beginner would reasonably look for such information. The page already discusses how other Wikimedia projects choose to respect non-United States copyright law, in contrast to this project, so the additional point under discussion is relevant there.
::Furthermore, the subject is not covered at Help:Licensing compatibility, which includes only one mention of Wikimedia Commons; and that in a section which does not touch on the issue I mention, but is in a section about discussions of the prohibition of &quot;no derivative&quot; clauses. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The &quot;Beginner's guide to copyright&quot; is about copyright itself.  Where our files are stored is not an issue of copyright law.  The Licensing compatibility covers which items are allowed to be hosted here, which ''is'' affected by copyright status, but copyright is ''not'' the only concern, there are other licensing issues that affect what can be hosted here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:37, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Whether a file is stored locally rather than on Commons if often decided ''solely'' on it's copyright status, which is in turn wholly a factor of copyright law.
::::Again: the licensing compatability page does not mention this issue ''at all''.
::::Again: this is not a matter of ''licensing''. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So then, you're looking for [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]]?  Again, where to upload a file may be ''affected'' by the copyright status of the work, but it's not a part of copyright law. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:26, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, I am not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:31, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::This is the page that says: &quot;Usually, the DjVu or PDF file should be uploaded directly to Wikimedia Commons (one of Wikisource's sister sites that holds images and files for general use).  However, Commons chooses to respect the copyright laws of the home country of any work, which Wikisource does not.  In cases where non-United States publications are in the public domain in the United States but not in their home countries, they should be uploaded directly to Wikisource instead.  This method is the same as the method to upload and add images.&quot;  Is that not what you are asking about? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:38, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::No. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:43, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Can you please clarify then? Because this looks to me to be exactly what you were asking about at the start of this thread. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

=== Clarity of Help page ===
User:Pigsonthewing has made [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3ABeginner%27s_guide_to_copyright&amp;oldid=prev&amp;diff=15092053 this change] to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]], with the comment &quot;This is not tangent; it relates directly to the page's pre-existing point about projects &quot;choose to respect non-United States copyright law. English Wikisource does not&quot; and hinges directly on the copyright status of works concerned&quot;

My concern is that this inserts a second tangential issue into a set of paragraphs explaining copyright law.

The text looks like this with the added text in '''bold''':

{{blockquote|
; Non-United States publications
The rules about non-United States publications can get complicated.

Some works may be in the public domain in the United States even if they are still under copyright in their home countries '''(these works should be uploaded directly to Wikisource, not Wikimedia Commons)'''. Other works may be in the public domain in their home countries but still under copyright in the United States '''(these works are not eligible for inclusion on this Wikisource'''.

For example, the last collection of Sherlock Holmes stories, ''[[The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes]]'', was published in 1927
}}

The text is concerned with the copyright status of works, not with the uploading of files.  The added text is concerned with the uploading of files, which is discussed on the page [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]], which has a section devoted to the uploading of source files.

I believe the additions to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] are intrusive, because they insert a second topic into a paragraph that is already about a complicated topic.  I also believe they are superfluous, because we already have a Beginner's guide page that explains where to upload files. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:03, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-22 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* A community-wide discussion about a very delicate issue for the development of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]] is now open on Meta: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. The discussion is open until June 12 at [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]], and every opinion is welcomed. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

'''Updates for editors'''
* Since last week, on all wikis except [[phab:T388604|the largest 20]], people using the mobile visual editor will have [[phab:T385851|additional tools in the menu bar]], accessed using the new &lt;code&gt;+&lt;/code&gt; toolbar button. To start, the new menu will include options to add: citations, hieroglyphs, and code blocks. Deployment to the remaining wikis is [[phab:T388605|scheduled]] to happen in June.
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexist|#ifexist]]&lt;/code&gt; parser function will no longer register a link to its target page. This will improve the usefulness of [[{{#special:WantedPages}}]], which will eventually only list pages that are the target of an actual red link. This change will happen gradually as the source pages are updated. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T14019]
* This week, the Moderator Tools team will launch [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], starting at Indonesian Wikipedia. This new filter highlights edits that are likely to be reverted. The goal is to help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic edits. Other wikis will benefit from this filter in the future.
* Upon clicking an empty search bar, logged-out users will see suggestions of articles for further reading. The feature will be available on both desktop and mobile. Readers of Catalan, Hebrew, and Italian Wikipedias and some sister projects will receive the change between May 21 and mid-June. Readers of other wikis will receive the change later. The goal is to encourage users to read the wikis more. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Reading/Web/Content Discovery Experiments/Search Suggestions|Learn more]].
* Some users of the Wikipedia Android app can use a new feature for readers, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Apps/Team/Android/TrivaGame|WikiGames]], a daily trivia game based on real historical events. The release has started as an A/B test, available to 50% of users in the following languages: English, French, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, and Turkish.
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Newsletter|Newsletter extension]] that is available on MediaWiki.org allows the creation of [[mw:Special:Newsletters|various newsletters]] for global users. The extension can now publish new issues as section links on an existing page, instead of requiring a new page for each issue. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T393844]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:32}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:32|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* The previously deprecated &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Ipblocks table|ipblocks]]&lt;/code&gt; views in [[wikitech:Help:Wiki Replicas|Wiki Replicas]] will be removed in the beginning of June. Users are encouraged to query the new &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block table|block]]&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block target table|block_target]]&lt;/code&gt; views instead.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.3|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects|Wikidata and Sister Projects]] is a multi-day online event that will focus on how Wikidata is integrated to Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. The event runs from May 29 – June 1. You can [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects#Sessions|read the Program schedule]] and [[d:Special:RegisterForEvent/1291|register]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 20:04, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Works as a header ==

Is &quot;Works&quot; by itself as a header in Portals meant to be read as &quot;Works by&quot; or &quot;Works about&quot;? I see it mostly used to mean &quot;Works by&quot; when I see it in Author space and it is separated into &quot;Works by&quot; and &quot;Works about&quot; when the two exist. That is why it looks odd in location Portal space as in [[Portal:Westbrookville, New York]]. IT looks like it the works were written by the location. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 03:15, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: I replaced the L2 &quot;Works about ...&quot; to &quot;Works&quot; to keep it consistent with what's done on most other portal entries on the site. &quot;Works&quot; here means &quot;Works about&quot;. However, as of right now there appears to be no official standard for which header to use. [[Wikisource:Portal guidelines]] and [[Help:Portals]] say nothing about a &quot;Works&quot; section or &quot;Works about&quot; section.
: If &quot;Works&quot; sections should be changed to &quot;Works about&quot; by some informal vote here, then it's probably best to make it an official policy. We should consider also using bots to keep up with the maintenance that would be required to standardize all portal L2s one way or the other.
: Wikisource lacking structure is a massive problem here IMO, since for example Wiktionary has their quite detailed &quot;[[wikt:WT:ELE|Entry layout explained]]&quot; policy page, while the typical Wikisource culture is just to sorta do whatever we want in most areas that could be given a ruleset. This makes things like parsing our content especially difficult, for example. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:06, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::However, there are a number of portals where &quot;works by&quot; is applicable - government departments, for example. 
::If we want to be consistent, I think it would be best to have the same policy for both Authors and Portals. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:39, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That would not make sense for Portals unless they are People Portals.  We would never have &quot;Works by Philosophy&quot; as a header.  And on any larger Portal, it also makes no sense to have a &quot;Works about&quot; header, since potentially everything on the Portal is about the subject of the Portal.  But there are also Portals where the content is '''neither''' by nor about; for example [[Portal:French literature]], where the works ''are'' French literature, and not work written by French literature, nor works about French literature. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:44, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Red link in Monthly Challenge ==

There is a red link in the monthly challenge for [[Author:Department of Defense]] - I understand that author page should not be created. Should that link instead to [[Portal:United States Department of Defense]] ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:42, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

:Yes. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:45, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::Please could somebody make that change - the work is &quot;United States – Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967&quot;. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:40, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::: {{done}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Cheers. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees 2025 Selection &amp; Call for Questions ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
:''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement|{{int:interlanguage-link-mul}}]] • [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&amp;group=page-{{urlencode:Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement}}&amp;language=&amp;action=page&amp;filter= {{int:please-translate}}]''

Dear all,

This year, the term of 2 (two) Community- and Affiliate-selected Trustees on the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees will come to an end [1]. The Board invites the whole movement to participate in this year’s selection process and vote to fill those seats.

The Elections Committee will oversee this process with support from Foundation staff [2]. The Governance Committee, composed of trustees who are not candidates in the 2025 community-and-affiliate-selected trustee selection process (Raju Narisetti, Shani Evenstein Sigalov, Lorenzo Losa, Kathy Collins, Victoria Doronina and Esra’a Al Shafei) [3], is tasked with providing Board oversight for the 2025 trustee selection process and for keeping the Board informed. More details on the roles of the Elections Committee, Board, and staff are here [4].

Here are the key planned dates:

* May 22 – June 5: Announcement (this communication) and call for questions period [6]
* June 17 – July 1, 2025: Call for candidates
* July 2025: If needed, affiliates vote to shortlist candidates if more than 10 apply [5]
* August 2025: Campaign period
* August – September 2025: Two-week community voting period
* October – November 2025: Background check of selected candidates
* Board’s Meeting in December 2025: New trustees seated

Learn more about the 2025 selection process - including the detailed timeline, the candidacy process, the campaign rules, and the voter eligibility criteria - on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025|[link]]].

'''Call for Questions'''

In each selection process, the community has the opportunity to submit questions for the Board of Trustees candidates to answer. The Election Committee selects questions from the list developed by the community for the candidates to answer. Candidates must answer all the required questions in the application in order to be eligible; otherwise their application will be disqualified. This year, the Election Committee will select 5 questions for the candidates to answer. The selected questions may be a combination of what’s been submitted from the community, if they’re alike or related. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates|[link]]]

'''Election Volunteers'''

Another way to be involved with the 2025 selection process is to be an Election Volunteer. Election Volunteers are a bridge between the Elections Committee and their respective community. They help ensure their community is represented and mobilize them to vote. Learn more about the program and how to join on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Election_volunteers|[link].]]

Thank you!

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2022/Results

[2] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Committee:Elections_Committee_Charter

[3] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Committee_Membership,_December_2024

[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections_committee/Roles

[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/FAQ

[6] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates

Best regards,

Victoria Doronina

Board Liaison to the Elections Committee

Governance Committee&lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

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== We are looking for a pilot for our new feature, Favourite Templates ==

Hello everyone! [[meta:Community Tech|Community Tech]] are building a new feature, called [[metawiki:Community_Wishlist/Focus_areas/Template_recall_and_discovery|Favourite Templates]], that will provide a better way for new and experienced contributors to recall and discover templates via the template dialog, that works with both VisualEditor and wikitext editor. We hope this will increase dialog usage and the number of templates added.

Since 2013, experienced volunteers have asked for a more intuitive template selector, exposing popular or most-used templates on the template dialog. At this stage of work, we are focusing on allowing users to put templates in a “favourite” list, so that their reuse will be easier. At a later stage, we will focus on helping users discover or find templates.

We are looking for potential additional testers for Favourite Templates, and we thought you might be interested in trying it out. If so, please let us know if it is the case, we would be happy to set up a pilot. So far, the feature has been deployed successfully on Polish and Arabic Wikipedia, and we’re currently in talks with other projects for expanding the pilot phase.

In addition, we’d love to hear your feedback and ideas for helping people find and insert templates. Some ideas we’ve identified are searching or browsing templates by category, or showing the number of times a template has been transcluded.

Of course, we are ready to answer your questions and to give you all the information you need. Thanks in advance!

—[[User:SWilson (WMF)|SWilson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SWilson (WMF)|talk]]) 05:23, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== DTIC file - Colors in Terrain ==


Is this PD-US-Gov?

https://archive.org/details/DTIC_ADA277204/page/n3/mode/2up

If so I'd like to put it on Wikisource. In addition it would be appreciated if someone with expertise could advise on how to reconstruct the XYZ values from the xy and luminance factors given.  This is so I can make used of the dataset (with citation) in respect of other projects. (I would of course be happy with a relevant color chart being constructed as a semi-formal academic paper over on Wikiversity.)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:52, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think, unfortunately, it is not PD-US-Gov. I don't believe US Gov contractors count as federal employees for the purpose of copyright law, and the [https://www.acquisition.gov/far/27.404-3 Federal Acquisition Regulation 27.404-3] specifically outlines that contractor producers of scientific and technical reports have blanket permission to reassert copyright on their research. That same regulation notes that the free unlimited distribution license which is noted on the document is just to the US Gov; I don't believe the public can tap into that license to redistribute.
:Perhaps someone with more US Gov works experience can chime in though. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:13, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

: Bother. Looks like I'll have to find the original journal articles directly then. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:38, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
: The source dataset seems to be a 1940's translation published in Canada of a 1943 Russian language work, This gets interesting. Can someone dig a little deeper? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Have we lost some Validated Indexes? ==

On 11 Sept. 2024 I updated [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] with our 6500th completed index. I just went to check on progress to the next milestone of 7000 only to discover that there are only 5284 in [[:Category:Index Validated]]. How and when did we lose over 1500 validated Indexes? [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:19, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
: I place my bet on the index lua error from two months and a half ago. We have ~12k indexes that just don't have ''any'' categories (out of 35583 total indexes). I think some of those affected by the bug had all their Page:s already transcluded, and so the Page:s didn't count as orphan and we didn't find them yet. The categorylink table must just have not been updated. Confirmation of this: The first thus uncategorised index reported when I queried was [[Index:! Explosive objects in War in Ukraine, 2022 (01).jpg]]. It had page_links_updated set to 20250311190213, which is 11 march, the date of the lua index error. On a null edit, it disappeared from the list. We probably ought to get 'round to null-editing all these indexes. I'm really busy these days but I could patch up some code next week. 12k is not that much. If we say one null edit/min that makes 12k minutes, or 200 hours, or just over a week. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:07, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (FYI: the complete list is [https://quarry.wmcloud.org/query/94236 here]. To refresh (you need to have forked) just re-submit. Replag aside, should update instantaneously.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:24, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Hadn't thought of that, despite the fact that I've been null-editing Indexes via LonelyPages every three days. I'm part way through G with another update due this evening (my time). Any Index that is not pdf or djvu has been skipped over. Where there are Pages without an Index, I've left them for investigation later. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 17:58, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Any specific reason for skipping non-pdf/djvu indexes? Normally they should work like others. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:01, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Because the listing in LonelyPages is the Page namespace and the link to the Index doesn't appear as a tab in the same way. Thus easier to ignore at present and then deal with as a group later. I much prefer dealing with a single workflow at a time. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::By the way - the orphaned pages listing was actually updated yesterday - it starts again on the first of the month,
::::::I have been trying to reduce the main pages on the orphaned pages list. A number of those have been works transcluded but affected by the index lua error. (And so not linked from anywhere else). I have tried adding other links as well. Of course, this means that main pages affected by the lua error do not show there if they already were linked from elsewhere. --
::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::: @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] and [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] : the query I linked to above ''does'' give an exhaustive list, transclusion or no transclusion, exploiting the fact that broken indexes lost their categories. It also gives the indexes not the pages, so there's no trouble of reaching the index from the pages. If you want, I can reasonably easily get the list into a wikipage with links (as opposed to the quarry result of just page names). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:37, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I've made a list at [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]]. Having already dealt with some, it's reduced in size by ca. 500 from the initial. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:21, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: Would you mind other editors editing that page? So we can remove those that are done and keep track of where we're at. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:41, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I've forked the query to select .djvu indexes (&lt;code&gt;page_title like '%.djvu'&lt;/code&gt;). 3600 are remaining. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 10:52, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::: Welp, we do also have to do the PDFs. It's not a good thing, but many indexes are done PDF. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:54, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I have no problems with other editors editing the page. Keeping track and not duplicating effort is always good. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 22:33, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All DjVu indexes done. The page is updated. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All jpg, jpeg, webm indexes done. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All not .pdf indexes done (6,818). [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]] updated. Now 5,641 pages in Category:Index Validated • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The proposed query has to be modified, ~2000 indexes having categories other than &quot;Index:...&quot;.
::::::::::::I have used as a jointure: 
:::::::::::::&lt;code&gt;and page_id not in ( select cl_from  from categorylinks   where cl_to like 'Index%' )&lt;/code&gt;
::::::::::::to get a new list. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:29, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: &lt;code&gt; AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM categorylinks WHERE cl_from = page_id AND cl_to LIKE 'Index%')&lt;/code&gt; is probably faster. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: As a side note, I found why these indexes have some of their cats but not all: the categories that are added manually are actually out of the template; so when the template broke, they only lost the categories that relied on it; which means the status cats &amp;co, but not the manual ones. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:56, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::All Indexes in the second list are now null-edited and [[:Category:Index Validated]] is at 6953, which approximately what I was expecting to see. There are only 141 in the Validated category that need to have their transclusion status checked. Thanks to {{ping|M-le-mot-dit}} for the assistance on getting all the Indexes null-edited so quickly. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:42, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:The milestone of 7000 Validated indexes was reached yesterday. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 07:57, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (I think it's [[Index:Skyes Picot, The Manchester Guardian, Monday, November 26, 1917, p5.jpg]].) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The Category contains a template ({{tl|Proofreadpage_index_template/testcases}}), so it may be [[Index:The President's Proclamation (Proctor, 1963).jpg]]. Quarry gives 7004 indexes. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Indeed, good catch! :) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:13, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-23 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is now available on all Wikimedia wikis. Editors can use this new extension to create interactive data visualizations like bar, line, area, and pie charts. Charts are designed to replace many of the uses of the legacy [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Graph|Graph extension]].

'''Updates for editors'''
* It is now easier to configure automatic citations for your wiki within the visual editor's [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Citoid/Enabling Citoid on your wiki|citation generator]]. Administrators can now set a default template by using the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;_default&lt;/code&gt; key in the local &lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[MediaWiki:Citoid-template-type-map.json]]&lt;/bdi&gt; page ([[mw:Special:Diff/6969653/7646386|example diff]]). Setting this default will also help to future-proof your existing configurations when [[phab:T347823|new item types]] are added in the future. You can still set templates for individual item types as they will be preferred to the default template. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384709]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:20}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:20|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Starting the week of June 2, bots logging in using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=clientlogin&lt;/code&gt; will fail more often. This is because of stronger protections against suspicious logins. Bots using [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Bot passwords|bot passwords]] or using a loginless authentication method such as [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/OAuth/Owner-only consumers|OAuth]] are not affected. If your bot is not using one of those, you should update it; using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; without a bot password was deprecated [[listarchive:list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/3EEMN7VQX5G7WMQI5K2GP5JC2336DPTD/|in 2016]]. For most bots, this only requires changing what password the bot uses. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T395205]
* From this week, Wikimedia wikis will allow ES2017 features in JavaScript code for official code, gadgets, and user scripts. The most visible feature of ES2017 is &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;code&gt;async&lt;/code&gt;/&lt;code&gt;await&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/bdi&gt; syntax, allowing for easier-to-read code. Until this week, the platform only allowed up to ES2016, and a few months before that, up to ES2015. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T381537]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.4|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* Scholarship applications to participate in the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025|GLAM Wiki Conference 2025]] are now open. The conference will take place from 30 October to 1 November, in Lisbon, Portugal. GLAM contributors who lack the means to support their participation can [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025/Scholarships|apply here]]. Scholarship applications close on June 7th.

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== Copyright status of a work. ==

This is listed as public domain on Hathi:-
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31210024780379&amp;seq=15

However, it contains apparenty reprints of papers published in other works, which may need additional evalaution.

The author of the papers seems to have been an active Employee at the NBS (later NIST), So can someone make a determination as to this work's potential inclusion in Wikisource, given that the works itself is Federal?. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:00, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}} I've sent the NIST an email, hopefully they reply. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:54, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: The concern is that some of the papers appear to be published in Journals, which given the dates would have had active registrations, (even if the individual author concerned didn't make individual periodical ones.). [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:05, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}}
:This is the response from the NIST:
:&quot;Hi,
:Generally, official writings by federal employees are not subject to copyright protection within the United States (a narrow exception to this policy exists in the case of Standard Reference Data published under the provisions of the Standard Reference Data Act (Public Law 90-396). The Act permits NIST to copyright Standard Reference Data.  Click here for more information.)  However, the government may be able to assert copyright in countries other than the United States.  When official writings by NIST employees, except those covered under the Standard Reference Data Act, are submitted to a non-NIST publication, a statement should be included indicating that the material is not subject to copyright protection within the United States. If you are asked to sign a publication permission form, you should have it reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST prior to signing.  Some journals will accept our copyright form. (In fact, some journals will request this copyright form.) (External co-authors may be asked to sign an agreement transferring their copyright to the publisher, which they may choose to do.)
:Sample statement: Official contribution of the National Institute of Standards and Technology; not subject to copyright in the United States.
:Note that in most instances NIST Research Associates could assert copyright but may have agreed not to assert US copyright in their work done at NIST when they signed their NIST Associate’s Agreement. Whether or not to include the ‘not subject to copyright in the United States’ statement on manuscripts jointly authored by federal NIST employees and NIST Associates is a factual matter to be determined when the publication is drafted.
:If you are asked to sign a publisher’s agreement for your publication that agreement must first be reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.
:If you encounter any problems with a publisher, or need any help, contact the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.&quot;
:I think this is a yes, thoughts? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 11:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: Hmm, so that says NIST Research Associate works without other notices, are possibles. However, in respect of this specifc collection, some of the later articles are from Journals with their own copyrights and thus can't be included (because of the Journal Copyright, rather than the contributors.). On that basis, the original papers will have to be tracked down and evaluated on a paper by paper basis. 
:BTW for a Government agency, that response is suprisingly clear for our purposes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Colour vs b/w image? ==

Hi, I was finding the image for [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Taming_Liquid_Hydrogen_The_Centaur_Upper_Stage_Rocket.pdf/58]. For this text, instead of extracting from the low quality PDF, since they are all catalogued NASA images, I have just looked up the image IDs and downloaded them directly from the NASA/DVIDS website. However, for this specific page, the image is black and white, but I found a high-quality colour version at [https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/historic-facilities/rocket-engine-test-facility/retf-staff/]. What should I do? Use the colour version as is or convert it to black/white first? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:29, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: My 2¢ would be convert it to black &amp; white, as that's what the source has. The low-quality is very probably due to bad scanning. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 22:15, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== 'Indexes validated in [month]' category ==

Why does [[Index:Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf]] appear in [[:Category:Indexes validated in June 2025]], yet [[Index:Reference to some of the works executed in stained glass - William Raphael Eginton.pdf]] does not? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:46, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

:I expect it is because the former has an  entry in the box &quot;Validation date&quot; and the latter has that box blank. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:59, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]], @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] It is not longer blank now! But yes, you do have to manually fill in the validation date box, by editing the index page. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:01, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. (Though the index page was amended to show all validated in May.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:18, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:::[https://petscan.wmcloud.org/?psid=35284922 Petscan] lists 136 indexes in the above situation. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::I've sorted 96 of them, but need to call it a night. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 10:14, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Monthly Challenge colors on dark mode ==

For some reason the colors for the to fix header and the to proofread headers are swapped on dark mode. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:34, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: There where some muck-ups in the templates between the statuses (essentially, the classes were swapped and so the colors were swapped again to make it right). Caused some confusion when adding dark mode compat. Should be solved. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::Sorry for the mess up and thanks for the fix by the way! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Thinking REALLY big.. ==

Back in 2020, Fae mirrored PDF's of copyright records on IA to Commons.

Is there a contributor here that is willing to set up Index: here for post 1950's volumes?  

The thought was that it might be a way of finding works that might expire in the next few years, and if the renewals were looked into 
post 1930(rolling) volumes that might also be in scope for the period 1940 to 1950.  Other publications note a Fourth Series which continued to 1982(?) but those entries should already be in the online system. 

&quot;Mars-shot&quot; project, but worth it, if the transcription generated can be fed back into Wikidata as well.  This wouldn't be a project I'd focus on personally, my watchlist is already at 'life's work' length, but I felt this was something to be worked out. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Get IIIF working again. ==
Previously, inductiveload had a script ([[User:Inductiveload/jump_to_file]]) which helped improve the scans presented, by pulling them directly from hathi or IA, rather than  using the lower quality PDF present on Wikisource. 

Due to changes at IA ( URL in the script needs updating), this script stopped functioning.  Can someone PLEASE look into getting this working again, as it greatly assists in the transcription of works, where the PDF quality is exceptionally poor due to over compression or otherwise?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:04, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: As I already told you, the issue is with a line that has to be changed in the toolforge tool's code. See [[phab:T356227|T356227]]. This requires usurpation of the tool (given IL is gone at least for now); which is not easy to get. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:30, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: Thank you. So what could be a useful project is effectively stalled, because of 3 letters in old code, which can't be easily updated because the tool maintainer is absent. {{ping|Sohom Datta}} Another contributor attempted to fix this by patching the url on the Wikisource, but I couldn't get that technique to work.  The endpoint that the toolforge script uses now gives Error 500 suggesting it wasn't a priority to repair or was migrated.)..  As detailed in the phabricator ticket it's 4 characters in a single file that need changing.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:58, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: The project I refer to is above. a Marshsot project on the Catalog of Copyright Entries. (Yes I has strait jacket to hand! :lol:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:39, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

When 5 years after a massive upload, you find it isn't in a good quality:(.. 

I'm going to need some time to consider if I even attempt to work with this, and I am wondering if it's worth it, unless the PDF quality issue is resolved. Others here are working on making the hi-resimage loader work again, provided of course the endpoint it uses remains available. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 17:12, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-24 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product|Trust and Safety Product team]] is finalizing work needed to roll out [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|temporary accounts]] on large Wikipedias later this month. The team has worked with stewards and other users with extended rights to predict and address many use cases that may arise on larger wikis, so that community members can continue to effectively moderate and patrol temporary accounts. This will be the second of three phases of deployment – the last one will take place in September at the earliest. For more information about the recent developments on the project, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts/Updates|see this update]]. If you have any comments or questions, write on the [[mw:Talk:Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|talk page]], and [[m:Event:CEE Catch up Nr. 10 (June 2025)|join a CEE Catch Up]] this Tuesday.

'''Updates for editors'''
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]] The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Watchlist expiry|watchlist expiry]] feature allows editors to watch pages for a limited period of time. After that period, the page is automatically removed from your watchlist. Starting this week, you can set a preference for the default period of time to watch pages. The [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist-pageswatchlist|preferences]] also allow you to set different default watch periods for editing existing pages, pages you create, and when using rollback. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T265716]
[[File:Talk pages default look (April 2023).jpg|thumb|alt=Screenshot of the visual improvements made on talk pages|Example of a talk page with the new design, in French.]]
* The appearance of talk pages will change at almost all Wikipedias ([[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/19|some]] have already received this design change, [[phab:T379264|a few]] will get these changes later). You can read details about the changes [[diffblog:2024/05/02/making-talk-pages-better-for-everyone/|on ''Diff'']]. It is possible to opt out of these changes [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion|in user preferences]] (&quot;{{int:discussiontools-preference-visualenhancements}}&quot;). [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T319146][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T392121]
* Users with specific extended rights (including administrators, bureaucrats, checkusers, oversighters, and stewards) can now have IP addresses of all temporary accounts [[phab:T358853|revealed automatically]] during time-limited periods where they need to combat high-speed account-hopping vandalism. This feature was requested by stewards. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T386492]
* This week, the Moderator Tools and Machine Learning teams will continue the rollout of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], releasing it to several more Wikipedias. This filter utilizes the Revert Risk model, which was created by the Research team, to highlight edits that are likely to be reverted and help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic contributions. The feature will be rolled out to the following Wikipedias: {{int:project-localized-name-afwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bnwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-cywiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-hawwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-iswiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-kkwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-simplewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-trwiki/en}}. The rollout will continue in the coming weeks to include [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|the rest of the Wikipedias in this project]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T391964]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* AbuseFilter editors active on Meta-Wiki and large Wikipedias are kindly asked to update AbuseFilter to make it compatible with temporary accounts. A link to the instructions and the private lists of filters needing verification are [[phab:T369611|available on Phabricator]].
* Lua modules now have access to the name of a page's associated thumbnail image, and on [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/operations/mediawiki-config/+/2e4ab14aa15bb95568f9c07dd777065901eb2126/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php#10849 some wikis] to the WikiProject assessment information. This is possible using two new properties on [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#added-by-extensions|mw.title objects]], named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageImage&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageAssessments&lt;/code&gt;. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T131911][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T380122]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.5|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 01:16, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28846858 --&gt;
:NOTE: The default watchlist expiry time feature isn't available on here and it isn't available on enwiki or commons either. It ''is'' available on mediawikiwiki though, and I'm not sure why. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: See [[wikitech:Deployment train#Groups]]. In a nutshell: mediawiki updates are progressively rolled out in groups; we're in group 2, so we get them on wednesdays; as opposed to mediawikiwiki being in group 1 (tuesday) and enwiki being in group 3 (thursday). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you for explaining! [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 16:55, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family (archive.org)]] ==

This states that the source was ftp://ia340915.us.archive.org/1/items/LovecraftInPdfFormat/a_jermyn.pdf - trying that link did not work for me, and trying to find this item on Internet Archive gave me nothing. Anyone have any ideas where this source might be ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: That link uses the FTP protocol. Switching to http or https gives a 500 error.
: It also is a link to the direct file as opposed to the IA item.
: However, I can't find any item with such a name either.
: Possibly it was pulled out of IA's collections, but that would seem strange (pre-1930 publication). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. Wikipedia indicates that the story was only published under that title in 1986, so I assume that it was taken from a later collection. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:20, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Ah, that would explain IA pulling it out of their collections. In the last few months they've pulled out a lot of stuff which was plausibly PD (probably afraid of getting sued to death). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:25, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::::And, of course, shows a danger in not uploading the scan to Commons or here.
::::We now have a scan-backed copy of the story from the original Weird Tales printing, and a Weird Tales reprint available for transcription. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Bayonne Times need a link to Wikidata ==

Can someone link The Bayonne Times here at Wikisource to Wikidata Q118610753. Usually a bot does this, so if you see an error, let me know what I did wrong. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 14:58, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}}. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 15:11, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: (Heads up - the bot runs weekly, on saturday evenings UTC. So for this page, which was linked yesterday on the 9th, it would have done it next sat (the 14th).) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== How to improve this table ==

Hi, I made a table at [[Page:A History Of Mathematical Notations Vol I (1928).djvu/35]]. Whilst it works, it probably is quite a bodge solution and probably isn't compatible with mobile. Could anyone give some ideas as to how to improve it? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 17:48, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Matrix|Matrix]] I am not sure if all tables can be made safe for mobile, so I am not sure exactly what to recommend. If you concern is having a table altogether, you could try individual lines of text, with [[:Template:Phantom]] to align the individual terms (alignment would not be preserved on all screens, but it would stop the font size shrinking when viewed in small windows, as presently). Also, very minor, but why call &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Right|}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; on cell contents, when you can apply &lt;nowiki&gt;{{ts|ar}}|&lt;/nowiki&gt;? Maybe it is identical, but it just seemed a little odd. P.S. There is also a quotation mark missing on the last 8 on the page, but I am not sure what the 8 is/isn't supposed to be aligned with (the 1/7th, and the 5,2,1 look like they are in slightly different columns). Up to you where you place it. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Template:Id ==

I have no idea why this template is the ''number one'' spot on [[Special:WantedTemplates]] (all such links are in the Page namespace). My guess is that it is somehow being transcluded by means of a different, broken template. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:12, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:It appears to be something to do with {{tl|float left}} after ShakespeareFan00's last fiddle. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: Due to a typo in [[Special:PermaLink/15019930]], {{tl|float left}} briefly called {{tl|id}} instead of using {{code|{{{id}}}}}. By the time it was corrected, it got the time to spread out it these 3k-ish pages. Discussed this with them back in April; we were hoping that MW would realise and purge pagelinks. Manifestly not. I'd say ignore it? Except if someone fells like going on a null-editing spree again. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:54, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Jersey Journal disconnected from Wikidata ==

You can just restore the deletion at Q7743126. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 20:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{done}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 13:28, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>j4dcknx088joaev7nkgobnyo2rszvlz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131923</id>
      <parentid>15131795</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:11:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Have we lost some Validated Indexes? */ Reply</comment>
      <origin>15131923</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="109947" sha1="onun0747mjnadss4s5vsw0txqx2d5lt" xml:space="preserve">{{process header
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 | next     = [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives|Archives]]
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 | notes    = The '''[[wikt:scriptorium|Scriptorium]]''' is Wikisource's community discussion page. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[{{fullurl:Wikisource:Scriptorium|action=edit&amp;section=new start}} a new one]&lt;/span&gt;; please see '''[[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]'''.

The [[Wikisource:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' noticeboard]] can be used where appropriate. Some announcements and newsletters are subscribed to [[/Announcements/]].

Project members can often be found in the [[liberachat:wikisource|#wikisource]] IRC channel [https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat?channel=#wikisource webclient]. For discussion related to the entire project (not just the English chapter), please discuss at the [[:mul:Scriptorium|multilingual Wikisource]]. There are currently {{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}} [[Special:ActiveUsers|active users]] here.
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[[Category:Bots/Archival|Scriptorium ]]
[[Category:Wikisource|Scriptorium]]
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
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= Announcements =

= Proposals =
== Overriding Vector 2022 paragraph spacing ==
Since the forced deployment in November 2024, and multiple discussions including [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-01#Paragraph_spacing], [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding V22 paragraph spacing|2]], [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Switching to the Vector 2022 skin: the final date|3]], and [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Deployment of Vector 2022|4]], the idea of overriding the excessive paragraph spacing from V22 was floated multiple times. V22 raised the 0.9em spacing between paragraphs to 1.5em, which broke content that expected text to have similar size across skins (notably but not only {{tl|overfloat image}}).

This proposal is therefore to add to [[MediaWiki:Gadget-Site.css]]:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.mw-body p {
    margin:0.4em 0 0.5em 0;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Technical notes:
* this should have neither false positives nor false negatives given that &lt;code&gt;.mw-body p&lt;/code&gt; is the exact same selector used by V22.
* if site.css is loaded before the skin css, then we can just add a &lt;code&gt;html &lt;/code&gt; at the start of the selector: will not change the selection (given everything's in an html), and will give it more specificity (0,1,2 vs 0,1,1).
* 0.4em 0 0.5em 0 is exactly how it was in V10.
* this may stop working one day whenever WMF decides to IDHT another change through; but so can the entire website, and at least we'll have a fix. If it stops working, we can easily remove it and go back to our current state of having broken content.
— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} as proposer. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}}, strongly. Thanks for starting the vote! --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:51, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:58, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:09, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

= Bot approval requests =
* See [[Wikisource:Bots]]  for information about applying for a bot status
* See [[Wikisource:Bot requests]] if you require an existing bot to undertake a task

==[[User:333Bot]]==
(See also [[#Thinking of an anti-linkrot bot]].)

For non-scan backed works, sometimes the original webpage disappears and we lose the source. This task would archive automatically sources in new mainspace/talk pages at the wayback machine, and add {{tl|wml}}.

To avoid archiving vandalism, it would only do this on pages older than a week. (It won't search beyond the 2000th created page.)

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. Source's at [[User:Alien333/test#Link archiving]].

The idea would be to run this daily. Test edits: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14252&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001840] and [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14251&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001919]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:59, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
: As nearly two weeks have passed without objections, I activated this task per [[WS:BOT]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:59, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The run is over. Before launching the cronjob I will change the code to prevent it from archiving links in mainspace works' content (there are few valid reasons for extlinks in works; but there are some). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:48, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Did that, started cronjob. Will run at 16h14 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Note: For the last few days, it was stopped by an IA error on a certain page. I have now made it not crash on IA errors. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:03, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

==[[User:333Bot]] 2==
(See also [[#Seeking feedback on bot task to tag untagged deletion nominations]] for details and discussion.)

Works proposed for deletion at [[WS:PD]] or &lt;s&gt;[[WS:PD]]&lt;/s&gt;&lt;ins&gt;[[WS:CV]]&lt;/ins&gt; should be accordingly tagged. Occasionally, people forget to tag them. This task would locate these and tag them.

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. The code's at [[User:Alien333/test#Nomination_tagging]]. It would run daily. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:WS:PD or WS:PD ? Aren't they the same ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:24, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, you're right. Got mixed up. Meant PD and CV. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Heads up: I started the cronjob. (No untagged nominations rn, so may do no edits.) Runs will occur at about 5h40 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:27, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

=Repairs (and moves)=

'''Designated for requests related to the repair of works (and scans of works) presented on Wikisource'''

See also [[Wikisource:Scan lab]]

== Explanatory Notes Indices ==
Please move the following indices to their new corresponding filename
* [[Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
[[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:42, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: Errr. Feel free to trout me, but I don't understand what you're asking for.
: As in, move which pages to which titles? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::* Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-16 qp).pdf
::* Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 (UKPGA 2003-31 qp).pdf
::* Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Defamation Act 2013 (UKPGA 2013-26 qp).pdf
::* Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Modern Slavery Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-30 qp).pdf
::* Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Live Music Act 2012 (UKPGA 2012-2 qp).pdf
::* Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 (UKPGA 2011-14 qp).pdf
::This is to match filename move at commons. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:29, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

= Other discussions =
== [[Contra-Props]] ==

This article was published in a British magazine in 1941; the author died in 1946. Would this be still in copyright ? Or PD ?

(This was the subject of a previous query here which got archived without being answered - [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2019-09#1941_UK_publication]]) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:51, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
: Looks copyrighted to me. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:31, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
: Unless there's some reason they count as a US work, all UK works were restored by the URAA. The few exceptions are either Crown Copyright or were published by authors who died before 1926.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:26, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - I have put it as apparant copyright violation - [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions#Contra-Props]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That page has now been deleted so this query can be closed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:48, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Manual indexing of news articles versus Automatic indexing of news articles ==

I want to convert [[Brooklyn Eagle]] to an automatic-index instead of the hand-curated index. The hand curated index looks pretty, but is always missing articles. We can have [[The Brooklyn Eagle]] as the pretty one. See how it is done at [[Jersey Journal]], scroll to the bottom and there is a link to the pretty hand-curated list, missing many articles. This is similar to how Commons does it, you have automatic index at Category:Foo, and hand curated one as Foo, that is always missing entries. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 17:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:More automated curation of Periodicals and Newspapers on this site in the future would in general be a good thing - there's a lot of good work being done across a lot of these works but the process of creating the main-space pages for them can get very tedious and repetitive. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose had to write janky programs to semi-automate their individual workflows for some of these works.
:Your idea of a distinction between '''The Somewhere Argus''' and '''Somewhere Argus''' is interesting (and as I'm not a big user of wikimedia, not something I've particularly noticed on that site), but it doesn't seem particularly intuitive to me that one should be a raw list and another a curated view (or which way round those should be, and it seems quite a big departure from how work is generally presented here. Is it done anywhere else on this site? In the past I've seen a lot of resistance to the same work being included in different main-space pages. 
:In terms of a curated view, that may be better done by creating a Portal for that work. For example, when I worked through the July-Dec 1914 volumes of [[Punch]], I created a summary of all of the books reviewed in that volume which I put here: [[Portal:Punch/Reviewed Books]], that wouldn't really have been appropriate to put in the main page. 
:Alternatively, what's stopping you from having a list of highlights and the automatic index linked from the same page? That's effectively what [[The New York Times]] does - some of the issues are highlighted (those for which enough work has been done for them to have a complete contents page) but for the rest, there are year-based automatic lists using the {{tl|header periodical}} template. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 09:56, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
:* You are right, &quot;Portal:Brooklyn Eagle&quot; would be best for the hand curated ones, we should standardize on that, and migrate older ones to that format. Currently there are six styles of indexes for magazines and newspapers. There were at least ten different styles before I tried to standardized them. I eliminated the ones that were experimental one-of-a-kind ones. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 19:25, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Don't we already have a standard format, as documented at [[Wikisource:Periodical guidelines]] ? —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:24, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:By the way, I fixed [[Jersey Journal]]. There shouldn't be two separate mainspace pages for the same work, so I deleted the one that was simply a dump of subpages, and replaced it with the properly structured list that was previously located at [[The Jersey Journal]].
:In general, the automatic subpage listing should only be used as a temporary stop-gap until a proper page listing can be created. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:31, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::To your original point though - if you can find a way to automatically list all subpages, whether or not they have already been created, and in the correct order they appear in the publication, then that would be amazing and definitely we'd all make extensive use of such a system. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:14, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
Automate portals, have them point to Main.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:50, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

==QuickSurveys==
Apparently some new “feature” has been forced upon us again. These are annoying pop-up boxes which really mess up the formatting, especially if whatever text at the top of the page is centered (as it often is). Can this be disabled by default for everyone? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:32, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Dropped a task ([[phab:T393436]]) to ask them to not barge into the content like this, but I don't have much hope.
: And no, this extension and its parameters are a wmf thing, so we can't really do anything on our own. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:I have no clue what you're talking about. Can you tell me the steps to reproduce this issue? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:49, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::I can see it on any page that I open (and it is very disturbing), so if you do not, you might have it disabled in your preferences. See also the screenshots uploaded to the above linked phabricator task. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I don't. I'm trying to figure out which settings the original person has to see why he sees it, but if you're seeing it also, that is odd to me. I'm not sure why anyone is seeing this. I'm not. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 12:19, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::In the preferences under the &quot;User profile&quot; tab there is a section &quot;QuickSurvey extension&quot; where the surveys can be set as hidden. Currently logged out users also do not see it, but if this feature stays, we can imo expect it will be used to display messages (e.g. pleas for funding) to them as well. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: These things are highly targetable and targeted, see [[mw:Extension:QuickSurveys]]. Probably you aren't counted as an active patroller here (and this precise survey is about patrolling tools). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:57, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just an example of what I am seeing: [https://phab.wmfusercontent.org/file/data/wvrcadows4ftokyz3lyg/PHID-FILE-udsgsisdj2hq2uuva46d/screenshot3jpg.jpg] --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:06, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
*Another awful example: [[Charter Granted by Queen Elizabeth to the East India Company]]. This time, the pop-up is within the delete template. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:59, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*: Well, it just barges into the first thing it finds. They don't appear to be actively paying attention to tasks, and I don't expect them to pay attention to user feedback either, so this probably won't be fixed for a good while. My two cents are go disable it in your settings.
*: At least we've got the comfort most users don't see it.... But of course they make whatever surveys they want targeting whoever they want, so it's not that unlikely that this will become a problem for everyone in the near future.
*: Aaaahh, deploying breaking changes with no discussion, no warning, no community opt-out, and without listening to feedback. Becoming a habit, isn't it? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:43, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::It's showing up for me too.  Once I disable it on one project, then I get it on another.  Those of us who regularly visit multiple projects are going to be the most annoyed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:50, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::: Did you check the global settings? Perhaps there you can opt-out for all projects. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::I don't even have the option of using the same skin globally. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:28, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::: That's weird. So like, when you go [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-rendering-skin here], you don't see a &quot;Skin&quot;, a checkbox on whether to make it a default setting, and radio buttons with the options? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:20, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Might I suggest the following solution? : &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#bodyContent .ext-quick-survey-panel {display:none;}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 00:57, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::There's a setting to always hide them; the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole (except through site css, but Xover is the only active intadmin and has shown much reticence to adding that kind of stuff (see [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding_V22_paragraph_spacing]])). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:18, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: If that is an issue, we can simply come to a consensus, as a community, that the QS system needs to be blocked, and direct him to make the appropriate changes reflecting that consensus. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 12:35, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:Yes, the reticence of one admin should not override community consensus, and Xover knows that as well as the rest of us :) (that being said, I think a proper proposal would be necessary to determine consensus for something like this) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:13, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::Is amending the user profile, as stated by Jan above, not a good enough solution ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:11, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::: From the technical standpoint, yes, changing site CSS is 99% sure to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:::As Alien333 said, the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole - and you can't do that with the user profile. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:00, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Second pair of eyes for unclear letter ==

At [[Page:Poems Hornblower.djvu/110]], the last letter of {{tqi|Draw with their very breath—the poisonous faith}} is not super clear. I think I see the beginning of the arch of an h going right from the vertical bar after the t, but I'd appreciate if someone could give a quick look and confirm or not. (Compare also the {{tqi|faith}} from {{tqi|The world's cold faith,}} a few lines above.) Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:51, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:I think your assessment is good.  &quot;poisonous faith&quot; works with &quot;inglorious views&quot; and the soul straying from a &quot;diviner walk&quot;.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 21:02, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
::I agree; scans of different copies of the same book show the same misprinting ([https://books.google.com/books?id=ox1kAAAAcAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 BL], [https://books.google.com/books?id=fCQOAAAAQAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 Bod]), but the start of the arch of the 'h' is just visible in all. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:40, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to both. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:16, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== FYI: Wikisource: Preserving the Past for the Future ==

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2025/05/13/wikisource-preserving-the-past-for-the-future/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
*Who is Nanteza Divine Gabriella? I don’t recognize the name. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:11, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:* [[User:DivineGaby]] [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:53, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

== Call for Candidates for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
The results of voting on the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement Guidelines and Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) Charter is [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Annual review/2025#Results|available on Meta-wiki]].

You may now [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025/Candidates|submit your candidacy to serve on the U4C]] through 29 May 2025 at 12:00 UTC. Information about [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|eligibility, process, and the timeline are on Meta-wiki]]. Voting on candidates will open on 1 June 2025 and run for two weeks, closing on 15 June 2025 at 12:00 UTC.

If you have any questions, you can ask on [[m:Talk:Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|the discussion page for the election]]. -- in cooperation with the U4C, &lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[m:User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[m:User_talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]])&lt;/bdi&gt; 22:07, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Keegan (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=28618011 --&gt;

== Billingual template with Welsh Parliament Acts ==

The formatting problems that @[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] complained about in [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] could be fixed by using the {{tl|Bilingual}} template, however this creates its own formatting problems which I have shown at [[Wikisource:Sandbox]]. Additionally, the page numbers don't match up because the page numbers go up every second page due to the welsh version of a page using the same page number as the corresponding english version. Does anyone know how to fix this. 

Additionally, could someone make a version of the Bilingual template that could be more useful for longer works such as [[Index:Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2023 (ASC 2023-3 kp).pdf]] so whoever ends up working on that doesn't have to use the template over 200 times in one page. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:33, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:Not sure about the code for this, but would it be possible to transclude multiple pages at once like [[Template:Side by side]] using the &lt;code&gt;&lt;pages&gt;&lt;/code&gt; syntax, but reset the display each page so that the first lines of each page line up? I'm sure there's some struggle with that preserving the indents using colons like appears when using [[Template:Bilingual]]... [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 21:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
::The current practice for bitexts like this, is to transclude the English here, and the alternate pages at the Wikisource for the other language.  The two can then be linked to each other in the notes section of the header.  There are some exceptions here, and you can see an example at [[Modern Czech Poetry/October sonnet]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The Welsh elements of [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] have been moved over to Welsh Wikisource, and the pages have been linked in Wikidata and mentioned in the notes section! [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:29, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[:File:Weird Tales Volume 13 Number 06 (1929-06).djvu]] ==

This was originally uploaded to Commons with pages that were still in copyright redacted. Those are now out of copyright. What is the best way to restore them ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:19, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:Upload a new version of the file over the top of what's there. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:52, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
: That's assuming that placeholders were left. If not, then we need to first shift the Page:s to give room for the added pages. I can do that; ping me if it's needed. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:15, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you both. Yes, on this one, there are blank pages where the text was redacted, so taht should work fine. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:03, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== HathiTrust ==

[[Help:Image extraction#HathiTrust]] no longer works me; when I try running it, I just get Error 403.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 08:27, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I haven't tried any programs myself, but there are a few image downloader programs for HathiTrust available on GitHub, [https://github.com/Addono/HathiTrust-downloader this one for example]. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of HathiTrust can vouch for a particular method. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:22, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Linking to Explanatory Notes for UK Legislation ==

@[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] @[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] I've seen 3 different ways of linking to Explanatory Notes currently seen at [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]], [[Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011]], and [[Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015]] and I feel like we should have some consistency with how we link to Explanatory Notes. How should we go about linking to Explanatory Notes. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:25, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I did Welsh as I did because the King's Printer version included a formal title page including the mention of the explanatory notes. With Fixed Term Parliaments, it doesn't have that page, so the inclusion of the note makes sense. We could add that to ones that do have the title page. I personally don't know if using the &quot;next&quot; parameter like in Specialist Printing is best, because it prevents us from using that parameter to link to the next act that year, if that's something we wanted to do. I know it's done in some other countries that have full years of acts transcluded. Similar issue in Fixed Term Parliaments using &quot;next&quot; for the Schedules.&lt;br&gt;
:I think best is to link things mentioned within the title/TOC like in [[Scotland Act 1998]], including Explanatory Notes if there, and then we can mention Explanatory Notes in the &quot;notes&quot; of the header, and leave &quot;previous&quot; and &quot;next&quot; for linking to surrounding acts. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:48, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== Page marked historical ==

Heads up that I tagged [[Wikisource:Purchases]] with {{tl|historical}} since it hasn't actually been in use in several years. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:48, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: This project page is interesting and was unknown to me until just now. It is very similar to an idea that [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] and I have discussed recently, which would involve creating a centralized page in the Project namespace for requests for scans to be made where no scans appear to be accessible online (which would replace [[User:TE(æ)A,ea./Requests]] in their personal user space). My suggested name was either [[WS:Requests for scans]], or making that a section of the [[WS:Scan Lab]]. FYI, because of the inter-library loan (ILL) system, very few books would actually need to be ''bought'' in order to be scanned anymore (as far as I understand it), but buying should definitely be an option for those who are willing to donate the material, in cases where ILL is not possible. All in all, the Purchases page has merit conceptually, but in its current implementation inserting {{tl|historical}} was the right move. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:00, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-21 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The Editing Team and the Machine Learning Team are working on a new check for newcomers: [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check|Peacock check]]. Using a prediction model, this check will encourage editors to improve the tone of their edits, using artificial intelligence. We invite volunteers to review the first version of the Peacock language model for the following languages: Arabic, Spanish, Portuguese, English, and Japanese. Users from these wikis interested in reviewing this model are [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check/model test|invited to sign up at MediaWiki.org]]. The deadline to sign up is on May 23, which will be the start date of the test.

'''Updates for editors'''

* From May 20, 2025, [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Oversight policy|oversighters]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Meta:CheckUsers|checkusers]] will need to have their accounts secured with two-factor authentication (2FA) to be able to use their advanced rights. All users who belong to these two groups and do not have 2FA enabled have been informed. In the future, this requirement may be extended to other users with advanced rights. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Mandatory two-factor authentication for users with some extended rights|Learn more]].
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]]  [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|Multiblocks]] will begin mass deployment by the end of the month: all non-Wikipedia projects plus Catalan Wikipedia will adopt Multiblocks in the week of May 26, while all other Wikipedias will adopt it in the week of June 2. Please [[m:Talk:Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|contact the team]] if you have concerns. Administrators can test the new user interface now on your own wiki by browsing to [{{fullurl:Special:Block|usecodex=1}} {{#special:Block}}?usecodex=1], and can test the full multiblocks functionality [[testwiki:Special:Block|on testwiki]]. Multiblocks is the feature that makes it possible for administrators to impose different types of blocks on the same user at the same time. See the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|help page]] for more information. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* Later this week, the [[{{#special:SpecialPages}}]] listing of almost all special pages will be updated with a new design. This page has been [[phab:T219543|redesigned]] to improve the user experience in a few ways, including: The ability to search for names and aliases of the special pages, sorting, more visible marking of restricted special pages, and a more mobile-friendly look. The new version can be [https://meta.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:SpecialPages previewed] at Beta Cluster now, and feedback shared in the task. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219543]
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is being enabled on more wikis. For a detailed list of when the extension will be enabled on your wiki, please read the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart/Project#Deployment Timeline|deployment timeline]].
* [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Main Page|Wikifunctions]] will be deployed on May 27 on five Wiktionaries: [[wikt:ha:|Hausa]], [[wikt:ig:|Igbo]], [[wikt:bn:|Bengali]], [[wikt:ml:|Malayalam]], and [[wikt:dv:|Dhivehi/Maldivian]]. This is the second batch of deployment planned for the project. After deployment, the projects will be able to call [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Introduction|functions from Wikifunctions]] and integrate them in their pages. A function is something that takes one or more inputs and transforms them into a desired output, such as adding up two numbers, converting miles into metres, calculating how much time has passed since an event, or declining a word into a case. Wikifunctions will allow users to do that through a simple call of [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Catalogue|a stable and global function]], rather than via a local template.
* Later this week, the Wikimedia Foundation will publish a hub for [[diffblog:2024/07/09/on-the-value-of-experimentation/|experiments]]. This is to showcase and get user feedback on product experiments. The experiments help the Wikimedia movement [[diffblog:2023/07/13/exploring-paths-for-the-future-of-free-knowledge-new-wikipedia-chatgpt-plugin-leveraging-rich-media-social-apps-and-other-experiments/|understand new users]], how they interact with the internet and how it could affect the Wikimedia movement. Some examples are [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Generated Video|generated video]], the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Roblox game|Wikipedia Roblox speedrun game]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Discord bot|the Discord bot]].
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:29}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:29|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, there was a bug with creating an account using the API, which has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T390751]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Gadgets and user scripts that interact with [[{{#special:Block}}]] may need to be updated to work with the new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|manage blocks interface]]. Please review the [[mw:Help:Manage blocks/Developers|developer guide]] for more information. If you need help or are unable to adapt your script to the new interface, please let the team know on the [[mw:Help talk:Manage blocks/Developers|talk page]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.title&lt;/code&gt; object allows you to get information about a specific wiki page in the [[w:en:Wikipedia:Lua|Lua]] programming language. Starting this week, a new property will be added to the object, named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;isDisambiguationPage&lt;/code&gt;. This property allows you to check if a page is a disambiguation page, without the need to write a custom function. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T71441]
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|15px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] User script developers can use a [[toolforge:gitlab-content|new reverse proxy tool]] to load javascript and css from [[gitlab:|gitlab.wikimedia.org]] with &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.loader.load&lt;/code&gt;. The tool's author hopes this will enable collaborative development workflows for user scripts including linting, unit tests, code generation, and code review on &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;gitlab.wikimedia.org&lt;/bdi&gt; without a separate copy-and-paste step to publish scripts to a Wikimedia wiki for integration and acceptance testing. See [[wikitech:Tool:Gitlab-content|Tool:Gitlab-content on Wikitech]] for more information.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.2|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* The 12th edition of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wiki Workshop 2025|Wiki Workshop 2025]], a forum that brings together researchers that explore all aspects of Wikimedia projects, will be held virtually on 21-22 May. Researchers can [https://pretix.eu/wikimedia/wikiworkshop2025/ register now].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 23:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
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== RfC ongoing regarding Abstract Wikipedia (and your project) ==

&lt;div lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;
''(Apologies for posting in English, if this is not your first language)''

Hello all! We opened a discussion on Meta about a very delicate issue for the development of [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]]: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. Since some of the hypothesis involve your project, we wanted to hear your thoughts too. 

We want to make the decision process clear: we do not yet know which option we want to use, which is why we are consulting here. We will take the arguments from the Wikimedia communities into account, and we want to consult with the different communities and hear arguments that will help us with the decision. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

You can read the various hypothesis and have your say at [[:m:Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]]. Thank you in advance! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|&lt;span class=&quot;signature-talk&quot;&gt;{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}&lt;/span&gt;]]) 15:27, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Sannita_(WMF)/Mass_sending_test&amp;oldid=28768453 --&gt;

== Weird Tales file and index with incorrect name ==

[[Index:Weird Tales Volume 02 Number 2 (1937-02).djvu]] should say Volume 29. Do you think I should ask for the file on Commons to be moved, and then to have the index and pages here moved ? Or just leave it as it is ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:15, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
: Given some of it is already transcluded, and that the index is not exposed to the end reader, I'd say leaving a comment like {{tqi|(typo in file name)}} in the index title field would be enough of a clarification. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 04:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - thanks. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:39, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== Official Launch of The Million Wiki Project ==

We are thrilled to announce the official launch of [[m:The_Million_Wiki_Project|The Million Wiki Project!]]
[[File:Million Wiki Logo - Colored.svg|200px|right]]
Our mission is to enrich Wikimedia projects with high-quality and diverse content related to the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region. This initiative focuses on creating new articles, multimedia, structured data, and more, covering topics from MENA countries, communities, and diaspora worldwide.

'''Who Can Participate?'''&lt;br&gt;
All registered Wikimedians are welcome to join! Whether you're an individual contributor or part of an organization, your support is valuable. We encourage content creation in any of the six official UN languages (Arabic, English, French, Russian, Spanish, and soon Chinese).

'''What Kind of Content Are We Looking For?'''

* New Wikipedia articles focused on MENA topics
* Multimedia contributions on Wikimedia Commons (photos, videos)
* Structured data for Wikidata
* Language entries on Wiktionary
* Public domain texts on Wikisource

Note: Make sure your content follows local Wikimedia guidelines and licensing policies, including Freedom of Panorama for media files.

Join us in bridging content gaps and showcasing the richness of the MENA region on Wikimedia platforms! &lt;br&gt;
Stay tuned for more updates and participation guidelines. [[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 09:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== New texts list ==

Does a work count as &quot;complete&quot; for the purposes of the new texts list if the book has an index which has not been transcribed nor transcluded ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:56, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
: No. There have been multiple discussions, notably at [[Template talk:New texts]], where a consensus emerged that a work must be proofread and transcluded (but that there was not a need for validation). If you find an unproofread/untranscluded work, you can remove it.
: Sometimes sub-works that are works in their own right without the others (such a play in a collection of plays) also get listed on new text; for such works, it looks like the pratice is to only require that their part of the index be proofread and transcluded. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Radio Times ==

Please join the discussion at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:35, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Beginner's guide to copyright missing a key issue ==

Please could someone add a bullet point to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] about what happens regarding the hosting of scans of works which are considered out-of-copyright by this Wikisource, but not by Wikimedia Commons (for example, where they are still in copyright in Europe, but not the US)? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:30, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

:That's not a copyright concern, but a compatibility concern, so it's covered at [[Help:Licensing compatibility]], which is linked from the bottom of the page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:55, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::It is a copyright concern, and is not about licensing.
::The page to which I referred is styled as a guide for ''Beginners'', and is where a beginner would reasonably look for such information. The page already discusses how other Wikimedia projects choose to respect non-United States copyright law, in contrast to this project, so the additional point under discussion is relevant there.
::Furthermore, the subject is not covered at Help:Licensing compatibility, which includes only one mention of Wikimedia Commons; and that in a section which does not touch on the issue I mention, but is in a section about discussions of the prohibition of &quot;no derivative&quot; clauses. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The &quot;Beginner's guide to copyright&quot; is about copyright itself.  Where our files are stored is not an issue of copyright law.  The Licensing compatibility covers which items are allowed to be hosted here, which ''is'' affected by copyright status, but copyright is ''not'' the only concern, there are other licensing issues that affect what can be hosted here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:37, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Whether a file is stored locally rather than on Commons if often decided ''solely'' on it's copyright status, which is in turn wholly a factor of copyright law.
::::Again: the licensing compatability page does not mention this issue ''at all''.
::::Again: this is not a matter of ''licensing''. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So then, you're looking for [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]]?  Again, where to upload a file may be ''affected'' by the copyright status of the work, but it's not a part of copyright law. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:26, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, I am not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:31, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::This is the page that says: &quot;Usually, the DjVu or PDF file should be uploaded directly to Wikimedia Commons (one of Wikisource's sister sites that holds images and files for general use).  However, Commons chooses to respect the copyright laws of the home country of any work, which Wikisource does not.  In cases where non-United States publications are in the public domain in the United States but not in their home countries, they should be uploaded directly to Wikisource instead.  This method is the same as the method to upload and add images.&quot;  Is that not what you are asking about? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:38, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::No. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:43, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Can you please clarify then? Because this looks to me to be exactly what you were asking about at the start of this thread. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

=== Clarity of Help page ===
User:Pigsonthewing has made [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3ABeginner%27s_guide_to_copyright&amp;oldid=prev&amp;diff=15092053 this change] to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]], with the comment &quot;This is not tangent; it relates directly to the page's pre-existing point about projects &quot;choose to respect non-United States copyright law. English Wikisource does not&quot; and hinges directly on the copyright status of works concerned&quot;

My concern is that this inserts a second tangential issue into a set of paragraphs explaining copyright law.

The text looks like this with the added text in '''bold''':

{{blockquote|
; Non-United States publications
The rules about non-United States publications can get complicated.

Some works may be in the public domain in the United States even if they are still under copyright in their home countries '''(these works should be uploaded directly to Wikisource, not Wikimedia Commons)'''. Other works may be in the public domain in their home countries but still under copyright in the United States '''(these works are not eligible for inclusion on this Wikisource'''.

For example, the last collection of Sherlock Holmes stories, ''[[The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes]]'', was published in 1927
}}

The text is concerned with the copyright status of works, not with the uploading of files.  The added text is concerned with the uploading of files, which is discussed on the page [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]], which has a section devoted to the uploading of source files.

I believe the additions to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] are intrusive, because they insert a second topic into a paragraph that is already about a complicated topic.  I also believe they are superfluous, because we already have a Beginner's guide page that explains where to upload files. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:03, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-22 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* A community-wide discussion about a very delicate issue for the development of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]] is now open on Meta: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. The discussion is open until June 12 at [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]], and every opinion is welcomed. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

'''Updates for editors'''
* Since last week, on all wikis except [[phab:T388604|the largest 20]], people using the mobile visual editor will have [[phab:T385851|additional tools in the menu bar]], accessed using the new &lt;code&gt;+&lt;/code&gt; toolbar button. To start, the new menu will include options to add: citations, hieroglyphs, and code blocks. Deployment to the remaining wikis is [[phab:T388605|scheduled]] to happen in June.
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexist|#ifexist]]&lt;/code&gt; parser function will no longer register a link to its target page. This will improve the usefulness of [[{{#special:WantedPages}}]], which will eventually only list pages that are the target of an actual red link. This change will happen gradually as the source pages are updated. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T14019]
* This week, the Moderator Tools team will launch [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], starting at Indonesian Wikipedia. This new filter highlights edits that are likely to be reverted. The goal is to help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic edits. Other wikis will benefit from this filter in the future.
* Upon clicking an empty search bar, logged-out users will see suggestions of articles for further reading. The feature will be available on both desktop and mobile. Readers of Catalan, Hebrew, and Italian Wikipedias and some sister projects will receive the change between May 21 and mid-June. Readers of other wikis will receive the change later. The goal is to encourage users to read the wikis more. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Reading/Web/Content Discovery Experiments/Search Suggestions|Learn more]].
* Some users of the Wikipedia Android app can use a new feature for readers, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Apps/Team/Android/TrivaGame|WikiGames]], a daily trivia game based on real historical events. The release has started as an A/B test, available to 50% of users in the following languages: English, French, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, and Turkish.
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Newsletter|Newsletter extension]] that is available on MediaWiki.org allows the creation of [[mw:Special:Newsletters|various newsletters]] for global users. The extension can now publish new issues as section links on an existing page, instead of requiring a new page for each issue. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T393844]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:32}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:32|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* The previously deprecated &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Ipblocks table|ipblocks]]&lt;/code&gt; views in [[wikitech:Help:Wiki Replicas|Wiki Replicas]] will be removed in the beginning of June. Users are encouraged to query the new &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block table|block]]&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block target table|block_target]]&lt;/code&gt; views instead.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.3|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects|Wikidata and Sister Projects]] is a multi-day online event that will focus on how Wikidata is integrated to Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. The event runs from May 29 – June 1. You can [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects#Sessions|read the Program schedule]] and [[d:Special:RegisterForEvent/1291|register]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 20:04, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Works as a header ==

Is &quot;Works&quot; by itself as a header in Portals meant to be read as &quot;Works by&quot; or &quot;Works about&quot;? I see it mostly used to mean &quot;Works by&quot; when I see it in Author space and it is separated into &quot;Works by&quot; and &quot;Works about&quot; when the two exist. That is why it looks odd in location Portal space as in [[Portal:Westbrookville, New York]]. IT looks like it the works were written by the location. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 03:15, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: I replaced the L2 &quot;Works about ...&quot; to &quot;Works&quot; to keep it consistent with what's done on most other portal entries on the site. &quot;Works&quot; here means &quot;Works about&quot;. However, as of right now there appears to be no official standard for which header to use. [[Wikisource:Portal guidelines]] and [[Help:Portals]] say nothing about a &quot;Works&quot; section or &quot;Works about&quot; section.
: If &quot;Works&quot; sections should be changed to &quot;Works about&quot; by some informal vote here, then it's probably best to make it an official policy. We should consider also using bots to keep up with the maintenance that would be required to standardize all portal L2s one way or the other.
: Wikisource lacking structure is a massive problem here IMO, since for example Wiktionary has their quite detailed &quot;[[wikt:WT:ELE|Entry layout explained]]&quot; policy page, while the typical Wikisource culture is just to sorta do whatever we want in most areas that could be given a ruleset. This makes things like parsing our content especially difficult, for example. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:06, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::However, there are a number of portals where &quot;works by&quot; is applicable - government departments, for example. 
::If we want to be consistent, I think it would be best to have the same policy for both Authors and Portals. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:39, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That would not make sense for Portals unless they are People Portals.  We would never have &quot;Works by Philosophy&quot; as a header.  And on any larger Portal, it also makes no sense to have a &quot;Works about&quot; header, since potentially everything on the Portal is about the subject of the Portal.  But there are also Portals where the content is '''neither''' by nor about; for example [[Portal:French literature]], where the works ''are'' French literature, and not work written by French literature, nor works about French literature. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:44, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Red link in Monthly Challenge ==

There is a red link in the monthly challenge for [[Author:Department of Defense]] - I understand that author page should not be created. Should that link instead to [[Portal:United States Department of Defense]] ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:42, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

:Yes. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:45, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::Please could somebody make that change - the work is &quot;United States – Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967&quot;. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:40, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::: {{done}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Cheers. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees 2025 Selection &amp; Call for Questions ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
:''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement|{{int:interlanguage-link-mul}}]] • [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&amp;group=page-{{urlencode:Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement}}&amp;language=&amp;action=page&amp;filter= {{int:please-translate}}]''

Dear all,

This year, the term of 2 (two) Community- and Affiliate-selected Trustees on the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees will come to an end [1]. The Board invites the whole movement to participate in this year’s selection process and vote to fill those seats.

The Elections Committee will oversee this process with support from Foundation staff [2]. The Governance Committee, composed of trustees who are not candidates in the 2025 community-and-affiliate-selected trustee selection process (Raju Narisetti, Shani Evenstein Sigalov, Lorenzo Losa, Kathy Collins, Victoria Doronina and Esra’a Al Shafei) [3], is tasked with providing Board oversight for the 2025 trustee selection process and for keeping the Board informed. More details on the roles of the Elections Committee, Board, and staff are here [4].

Here are the key planned dates:

* May 22 – June 5: Announcement (this communication) and call for questions period [6]
* June 17 – July 1, 2025: Call for candidates
* July 2025: If needed, affiliates vote to shortlist candidates if more than 10 apply [5]
* August 2025: Campaign period
* August – September 2025: Two-week community voting period
* October – November 2025: Background check of selected candidates
* Board’s Meeting in December 2025: New trustees seated

Learn more about the 2025 selection process - including the detailed timeline, the candidacy process, the campaign rules, and the voter eligibility criteria - on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025|[link]]].

'''Call for Questions'''

In each selection process, the community has the opportunity to submit questions for the Board of Trustees candidates to answer. The Election Committee selects questions from the list developed by the community for the candidates to answer. Candidates must answer all the required questions in the application in order to be eligible; otherwise their application will be disqualified. This year, the Election Committee will select 5 questions for the candidates to answer. The selected questions may be a combination of what’s been submitted from the community, if they’re alike or related. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates|[link]]]

'''Election Volunteers'''

Another way to be involved with the 2025 selection process is to be an Election Volunteer. Election Volunteers are a bridge between the Elections Committee and their respective community. They help ensure their community is represented and mobilize them to vote. Learn more about the program and how to join on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Election_volunteers|[link].]]

Thank you!

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2022/Results

[2] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Committee:Elections_Committee_Charter

[3] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Committee_Membership,_December_2024

[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections_committee/Roles

[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/FAQ

[6] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates

Best regards,

Victoria Doronina

Board Liaison to the Elections Committee

Governance Committee&lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 03:08, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
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== We are looking for a pilot for our new feature, Favourite Templates ==

Hello everyone! [[meta:Community Tech|Community Tech]] are building a new feature, called [[metawiki:Community_Wishlist/Focus_areas/Template_recall_and_discovery|Favourite Templates]], that will provide a better way for new and experienced contributors to recall and discover templates via the template dialog, that works with both VisualEditor and wikitext editor. We hope this will increase dialog usage and the number of templates added.

Since 2013, experienced volunteers have asked for a more intuitive template selector, exposing popular or most-used templates on the template dialog. At this stage of work, we are focusing on allowing users to put templates in a “favourite” list, so that their reuse will be easier. At a later stage, we will focus on helping users discover or find templates.

We are looking for potential additional testers for Favourite Templates, and we thought you might be interested in trying it out. If so, please let us know if it is the case, we would be happy to set up a pilot. So far, the feature has been deployed successfully on Polish and Arabic Wikipedia, and we’re currently in talks with other projects for expanding the pilot phase.

In addition, we’d love to hear your feedback and ideas for helping people find and insert templates. Some ideas we’ve identified are searching or browsing templates by category, or showing the number of times a template has been transcluded.

Of course, we are ready to answer your questions and to give you all the information you need. Thanks in advance!

—[[User:SWilson (WMF)|SWilson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SWilson (WMF)|talk]]) 05:23, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== DTIC file - Colors in Terrain ==


Is this PD-US-Gov?

https://archive.org/details/DTIC_ADA277204/page/n3/mode/2up

If so I'd like to put it on Wikisource. In addition it would be appreciated if someone with expertise could advise on how to reconstruct the XYZ values from the xy and luminance factors given.  This is so I can make used of the dataset (with citation) in respect of other projects. (I would of course be happy with a relevant color chart being constructed as a semi-formal academic paper over on Wikiversity.)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:52, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think, unfortunately, it is not PD-US-Gov. I don't believe US Gov contractors count as federal employees for the purpose of copyright law, and the [https://www.acquisition.gov/far/27.404-3 Federal Acquisition Regulation 27.404-3] specifically outlines that contractor producers of scientific and technical reports have blanket permission to reassert copyright on their research. That same regulation notes that the free unlimited distribution license which is noted on the document is just to the US Gov; I don't believe the public can tap into that license to redistribute.
:Perhaps someone with more US Gov works experience can chime in though. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:13, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

: Bother. Looks like I'll have to find the original journal articles directly then. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:38, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
: The source dataset seems to be a 1940's translation published in Canada of a 1943 Russian language work, This gets interesting. Can someone dig a little deeper? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Have we lost some Validated Indexes? ==

On 11 Sept. 2024 I updated [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] with our 6500th completed index. I just went to check on progress to the next milestone of 7000 only to discover that there are only 5284 in [[:Category:Index Validated]]. How and when did we lose over 1500 validated Indexes? [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:19, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
: I place my bet on the index lua error from two months and a half ago. We have ~12k indexes that just don't have ''any'' categories (out of 35583 total indexes). I think some of those affected by the bug had all their Page:s already transcluded, and so the Page:s didn't count as orphan and we didn't find them yet. The categorylink table must just have not been updated. Confirmation of this: The first thus uncategorised index reported when I queried was [[Index:! Explosive objects in War in Ukraine, 2022 (01).jpg]]. It had page_links_updated set to 20250311190213, which is 11 march, the date of the lua index error. On a null edit, it disappeared from the list. We probably ought to get 'round to null-editing all these indexes. I'm really busy these days but I could patch up some code next week. 12k is not that much. If we say one null edit/min that makes 12k minutes, or 200 hours, or just over a week. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:07, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (FYI: the complete list is [https://quarry.wmcloud.org/query/94236 here]. To refresh (you need to have forked) just re-submit. Replag aside, should update instantaneously.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:24, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Hadn't thought of that, despite the fact that I've been null-editing Indexes via LonelyPages every three days. I'm part way through G with another update due this evening (my time). Any Index that is not pdf or djvu has been skipped over. Where there are Pages without an Index, I've left them for investigation later. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 17:58, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Any specific reason for skipping non-pdf/djvu indexes? Normally they should work like others. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:01, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Because the listing in LonelyPages is the Page namespace and the link to the Index doesn't appear as a tab in the same way. Thus easier to ignore at present and then deal with as a group later. I much prefer dealing with a single workflow at a time. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::By the way - the orphaned pages listing was actually updated yesterday - it starts again on the first of the month,
::::::I have been trying to reduce the main pages on the orphaned pages list. A number of those have been works transcluded but affected by the index lua error. (And so not linked from anywhere else). I have tried adding other links as well. Of course, this means that main pages affected by the lua error do not show there if they already were linked from elsewhere. --
::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::: @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] and [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] : the query I linked to above ''does'' give an exhaustive list, transclusion or no transclusion, exploiting the fact that broken indexes lost their categories. It also gives the indexes not the pages, so there's no trouble of reaching the index from the pages. If you want, I can reasonably easily get the list into a wikipage with links (as opposed to the quarry result of just page names). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:37, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I've made a list at [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]]. Having already dealt with some, it's reduced in size by ca. 500 from the initial. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:21, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: Would you mind other editors editing that page? So we can remove those that are done and keep track of where we're at. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:41, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I've forked the query to select .djvu indexes (&lt;code&gt;page_title like '%.djvu'&lt;/code&gt;). 3600 are remaining. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 10:52, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::: Welp, we do also have to do the PDFs. It's not a good thing, but many indexes are done PDF. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:54, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I have no problems with other editors editing the page. Keeping track and not duplicating effort is always good. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 22:33, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All DjVu indexes done. The page is updated. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All jpg, jpeg, webm indexes done. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All not .pdf indexes done (6,818). [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]] updated. Now 5,641 pages in Category:Index Validated • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The proposed query has to be modified, ~2000 indexes having categories other than &quot;Index:...&quot;.
::::::::::::I have used as a jointure: 
:::::::::::::&lt;code&gt;and page_id not in ( select cl_from  from categorylinks   where cl_to like 'Index%' )&lt;/code&gt;
::::::::::::to get a new list. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:29, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: &lt;code&gt; AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM categorylinks WHERE cl_from = page_id AND cl_to LIKE 'Index%')&lt;/code&gt; is probably faster. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: As a side note, I found why these indexes have some of their cats but not all: the categories that are added manually are actually out of the template; so when the template broke, they only lost the categories that relied on it; which means the status cats &amp;co, but not the manual ones. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:56, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::All Indexes in the second list are now null-edited and [[:Category:Index Validated]] is at 6953, which approximately what I was expecting to see. There are only 141 in the Validated category that need to have their transclusion status checked. Thanks to {{ping|M-le-mot-dit}} for the assistance on getting all the Indexes null-edited so quickly. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:42, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:The milestone of 7000 Validated indexes was reached yesterday. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 07:57, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (I think it's [[Index:Skyes Picot, The Manchester Guardian, Monday, November 26, 1917, p5.jpg]].) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The Category contains a template ({{tl|Proofreadpage_index_template/testcases}}), so it may be [[Index:The President's Proclamation (Proctor, 1963).jpg]]. Quarry gives 7004 indexes. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Indeed, good catch! :) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:13, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::It was indeed The President's Proclamation. [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] has been updated. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-23 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is now available on all Wikimedia wikis. Editors can use this new extension to create interactive data visualizations like bar, line, area, and pie charts. Charts are designed to replace many of the uses of the legacy [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Graph|Graph extension]].

'''Updates for editors'''
* It is now easier to configure automatic citations for your wiki within the visual editor's [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Citoid/Enabling Citoid on your wiki|citation generator]]. Administrators can now set a default template by using the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;_default&lt;/code&gt; key in the local &lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[MediaWiki:Citoid-template-type-map.json]]&lt;/bdi&gt; page ([[mw:Special:Diff/6969653/7646386|example diff]]). Setting this default will also help to future-proof your existing configurations when [[phab:T347823|new item types]] are added in the future. You can still set templates for individual item types as they will be preferred to the default template. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384709]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:20}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:20|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Starting the week of June 2, bots logging in using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=clientlogin&lt;/code&gt; will fail more often. This is because of stronger protections against suspicious logins. Bots using [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Bot passwords|bot passwords]] or using a loginless authentication method such as [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/OAuth/Owner-only consumers|OAuth]] are not affected. If your bot is not using one of those, you should update it; using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; without a bot password was deprecated [[listarchive:list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/3EEMN7VQX5G7WMQI5K2GP5JC2336DPTD/|in 2016]]. For most bots, this only requires changing what password the bot uses. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T395205]
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* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.4|MediaWiki]]

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&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 23:54, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
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== Copyright status of a work. ==

This is listed as public domain on Hathi:-
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31210024780379&amp;seq=15

However, it contains apparenty reprints of papers published in other works, which may need additional evalaution.

The author of the papers seems to have been an active Employee at the NBS (later NIST), So can someone make a determination as to this work's potential inclusion in Wikisource, given that the works itself is Federal?. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:00, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}} I've sent the NIST an email, hopefully they reply. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:54, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: The concern is that some of the papers appear to be published in Journals, which given the dates would have had active registrations, (even if the individual author concerned didn't make individual periodical ones.). [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:05, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}}
:This is the response from the NIST:
:&quot;Hi,
:Generally, official writings by federal employees are not subject to copyright protection within the United States (a narrow exception to this policy exists in the case of Standard Reference Data published under the provisions of the Standard Reference Data Act (Public Law 90-396). The Act permits NIST to copyright Standard Reference Data.  Click here for more information.)  However, the government may be able to assert copyright in countries other than the United States.  When official writings by NIST employees, except those covered under the Standard Reference Data Act, are submitted to a non-NIST publication, a statement should be included indicating that the material is not subject to copyright protection within the United States. If you are asked to sign a publication permission form, you should have it reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST prior to signing.  Some journals will accept our copyright form. (In fact, some journals will request this copyright form.) (External co-authors may be asked to sign an agreement transferring their copyright to the publisher, which they may choose to do.)
:Sample statement: Official contribution of the National Institute of Standards and Technology; not subject to copyright in the United States.
:Note that in most instances NIST Research Associates could assert copyright but may have agreed not to assert US copyright in their work done at NIST when they signed their NIST Associate’s Agreement. Whether or not to include the ‘not subject to copyright in the United States’ statement on manuscripts jointly authored by federal NIST employees and NIST Associates is a factual matter to be determined when the publication is drafted.
:If you are asked to sign a publisher’s agreement for your publication that agreement must first be reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.
:If you encounter any problems with a publisher, or need any help, contact the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.&quot;
:I think this is a yes, thoughts? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 11:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: Hmm, so that says NIST Research Associate works without other notices, are possibles. However, in respect of this specifc collection, some of the later articles are from Journals with their own copyrights and thus can't be included (because of the Journal Copyright, rather than the contributors.). On that basis, the original papers will have to be tracked down and evaluated on a paper by paper basis. 
:BTW for a Government agency, that response is suprisingly clear for our purposes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Colour vs b/w image? ==

Hi, I was finding the image for [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Taming_Liquid_Hydrogen_The_Centaur_Upper_Stage_Rocket.pdf/58]. For this text, instead of extracting from the low quality PDF, since they are all catalogued NASA images, I have just looked up the image IDs and downloaded them directly from the NASA/DVIDS website. However, for this specific page, the image is black and white, but I found a high-quality colour version at [https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/historic-facilities/rocket-engine-test-facility/retf-staff/]. What should I do? Use the colour version as is or convert it to black/white first? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:29, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: My 2¢ would be convert it to black &amp; white, as that's what the source has. The low-quality is very probably due to bad scanning. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 22:15, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== 'Indexes validated in [month]' category ==

Why does [[Index:Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf]] appear in [[:Category:Indexes validated in June 2025]], yet [[Index:Reference to some of the works executed in stained glass - William Raphael Eginton.pdf]] does not? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:46, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

:I expect it is because the former has an  entry in the box &quot;Validation date&quot; and the latter has that box blank. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:59, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]], @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] It is not longer blank now! But yes, you do have to manually fill in the validation date box, by editing the index page. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:01, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. (Though the index page was amended to show all validated in May.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:18, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:::[https://petscan.wmcloud.org/?psid=35284922 Petscan] lists 136 indexes in the above situation. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::I've sorted 96 of them, but need to call it a night. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 10:14, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Monthly Challenge colors on dark mode ==

For some reason the colors for the to fix header and the to proofread headers are swapped on dark mode. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:34, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: There where some muck-ups in the templates between the statuses (essentially, the classes were swapped and so the colors were swapped again to make it right). Caused some confusion when adding dark mode compat. Should be solved. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::Sorry for the mess up and thanks for the fix by the way! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Thinking REALLY big.. ==

Back in 2020, Fae mirrored PDF's of copyright records on IA to Commons.

Is there a contributor here that is willing to set up Index: here for post 1950's volumes?  

The thought was that it might be a way of finding works that might expire in the next few years, and if the renewals were looked into 
post 1930(rolling) volumes that might also be in scope for the period 1940 to 1950.  Other publications note a Fourth Series which continued to 1982(?) but those entries should already be in the online system. 

&quot;Mars-shot&quot; project, but worth it, if the transcription generated can be fed back into Wikidata as well.  This wouldn't be a project I'd focus on personally, my watchlist is already at 'life's work' length, but I felt this was something to be worked out. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Get IIIF working again. ==
Previously, inductiveload had a script ([[User:Inductiveload/jump_to_file]]) which helped improve the scans presented, by pulling them directly from hathi or IA, rather than  using the lower quality PDF present on Wikisource. 

Due to changes at IA ( URL in the script needs updating), this script stopped functioning.  Can someone PLEASE look into getting this working again, as it greatly assists in the transcription of works, where the PDF quality is exceptionally poor due to over compression or otherwise?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:04, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: As I already told you, the issue is with a line that has to be changed in the toolforge tool's code. See [[phab:T356227|T356227]]. This requires usurpation of the tool (given IL is gone at least for now); which is not easy to get. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:30, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: Thank you. So what could be a useful project is effectively stalled, because of 3 letters in old code, which can't be easily updated because the tool maintainer is absent. {{ping|Sohom Datta}} Another contributor attempted to fix this by patching the url on the Wikisource, but I couldn't get that technique to work.  The endpoint that the toolforge script uses now gives Error 500 suggesting it wasn't a priority to repair or was migrated.)..  As detailed in the phabricator ticket it's 4 characters in a single file that need changing.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:58, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: The project I refer to is above. a Marshsot project on the Catalog of Copyright Entries. (Yes I has strait jacket to hand! :lol:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:39, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

When 5 years after a massive upload, you find it isn't in a good quality:(.. 

I'm going to need some time to consider if I even attempt to work with this, and I am wondering if it's worth it, unless the PDF quality issue is resolved. Others here are working on making the hi-resimage loader work again, provided of course the endpoint it uses remains available. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 17:12, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-24 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product|Trust and Safety Product team]] is finalizing work needed to roll out [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|temporary accounts]] on large Wikipedias later this month. The team has worked with stewards and other users with extended rights to predict and address many use cases that may arise on larger wikis, so that community members can continue to effectively moderate and patrol temporary accounts. This will be the second of three phases of deployment – the last one will take place in September at the earliest. For more information about the recent developments on the project, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts/Updates|see this update]]. If you have any comments or questions, write on the [[mw:Talk:Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|talk page]], and [[m:Event:CEE Catch up Nr. 10 (June 2025)|join a CEE Catch Up]] this Tuesday.

'''Updates for editors'''
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]] The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Watchlist expiry|watchlist expiry]] feature allows editors to watch pages for a limited period of time. After that period, the page is automatically removed from your watchlist. Starting this week, you can set a preference for the default period of time to watch pages. The [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist-pageswatchlist|preferences]] also allow you to set different default watch periods for editing existing pages, pages you create, and when using rollback. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T265716]
[[File:Talk pages default look (April 2023).jpg|thumb|alt=Screenshot of the visual improvements made on talk pages|Example of a talk page with the new design, in French.]]
* The appearance of talk pages will change at almost all Wikipedias ([[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/19|some]] have already received this design change, [[phab:T379264|a few]] will get these changes later). You can read details about the changes [[diffblog:2024/05/02/making-talk-pages-better-for-everyone/|on ''Diff'']]. It is possible to opt out of these changes [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion|in user preferences]] (&quot;{{int:discussiontools-preference-visualenhancements}}&quot;). [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T319146][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T392121]
* Users with specific extended rights (including administrators, bureaucrats, checkusers, oversighters, and stewards) can now have IP addresses of all temporary accounts [[phab:T358853|revealed automatically]] during time-limited periods where they need to combat high-speed account-hopping vandalism. This feature was requested by stewards. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T386492]
* This week, the Moderator Tools and Machine Learning teams will continue the rollout of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], releasing it to several more Wikipedias. This filter utilizes the Revert Risk model, which was created by the Research team, to highlight edits that are likely to be reverted and help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic contributions. The feature will be rolled out to the following Wikipedias: {{int:project-localized-name-afwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bnwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-cywiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-hawwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-iswiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-kkwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-simplewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-trwiki/en}}. The rollout will continue in the coming weeks to include [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|the rest of the Wikipedias in this project]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T391964]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* AbuseFilter editors active on Meta-Wiki and large Wikipedias are kindly asked to update AbuseFilter to make it compatible with temporary accounts. A link to the instructions and the private lists of filters needing verification are [[phab:T369611|available on Phabricator]].
* Lua modules now have access to the name of a page's associated thumbnail image, and on [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/operations/mediawiki-config/+/2e4ab14aa15bb95568f9c07dd777065901eb2126/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php#10849 some wikis] to the WikiProject assessment information. This is possible using two new properties on [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#added-by-extensions|mw.title objects]], named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageImage&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageAssessments&lt;/code&gt;. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T131911][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T380122]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.5|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 01:16, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28846858 --&gt;
:NOTE: The default watchlist expiry time feature isn't available on here and it isn't available on enwiki or commons either. It ''is'' available on mediawikiwiki though, and I'm not sure why. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: See [[wikitech:Deployment train#Groups]]. In a nutshell: mediawiki updates are progressively rolled out in groups; we're in group 2, so we get them on wednesdays; as opposed to mediawikiwiki being in group 1 (tuesday) and enwiki being in group 3 (thursday). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you for explaining! [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 16:55, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family (archive.org)]] ==

This states that the source was ftp://ia340915.us.archive.org/1/items/LovecraftInPdfFormat/a_jermyn.pdf - trying that link did not work for me, and trying to find this item on Internet Archive gave me nothing. Anyone have any ideas where this source might be ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: That link uses the FTP protocol. Switching to http or https gives a 500 error.
: It also is a link to the direct file as opposed to the IA item.
: However, I can't find any item with such a name either.
: Possibly it was pulled out of IA's collections, but that would seem strange (pre-1930 publication). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. Wikipedia indicates that the story was only published under that title in 1986, so I assume that it was taken from a later collection. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:20, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Ah, that would explain IA pulling it out of their collections. In the last few months they've pulled out a lot of stuff which was plausibly PD (probably afraid of getting sued to death). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:25, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::::And, of course, shows a danger in not uploading the scan to Commons or here.
::::We now have a scan-backed copy of the story from the original Weird Tales printing, and a Weird Tales reprint available for transcription. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Bayonne Times need a link to Wikidata ==

Can someone link The Bayonne Times here at Wikisource to Wikidata Q118610753. Usually a bot does this, so if you see an error, let me know what I did wrong. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 14:58, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}}. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 15:11, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: (Heads up - the bot runs weekly, on saturday evenings UTC. So for this page, which was linked yesterday on the 9th, it would have done it next sat (the 14th).) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== How to improve this table ==

Hi, I made a table at [[Page:A History Of Mathematical Notations Vol I (1928).djvu/35]]. Whilst it works, it probably is quite a bodge solution and probably isn't compatible with mobile. Could anyone give some ideas as to how to improve it? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 17:48, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Matrix|Matrix]] I am not sure if all tables can be made safe for mobile, so I am not sure exactly what to recommend. If you concern is having a table altogether, you could try individual lines of text, with [[:Template:Phantom]] to align the individual terms (alignment would not be preserved on all screens, but it would stop the font size shrinking when viewed in small windows, as presently). Also, very minor, but why call &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Right|}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; on cell contents, when you can apply &lt;nowiki&gt;{{ts|ar}}|&lt;/nowiki&gt;? Maybe it is identical, but it just seemed a little odd. P.S. There is also a quotation mark missing on the last 8 on the page, but I am not sure what the 8 is/isn't supposed to be aligned with (the 1/7th, and the 5,2,1 look like they are in slightly different columns). Up to you where you place it. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Template:Id ==

I have no idea why this template is the ''number one'' spot on [[Special:WantedTemplates]] (all such links are in the Page namespace). My guess is that it is somehow being transcluded by means of a different, broken template. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:12, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:It appears to be something to do with {{tl|float left}} after ShakespeareFan00's last fiddle. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: Due to a typo in [[Special:PermaLink/15019930]], {{tl|float left}} briefly called {{tl|id}} instead of using {{code|{{{id}}}}}. By the time it was corrected, it got the time to spread out it these 3k-ish pages. Discussed this with them back in April; we were hoping that MW would realise and purge pagelinks. Manifestly not. I'd say ignore it? Except if someone fells like going on a null-editing spree again. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:54, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Jersey Journal disconnected from Wikidata ==

You can just restore the deletion at Q7743126. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 20:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{done}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 13:28, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>onun0747mjnadss4s5vsw0txqx2d5lt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132220</id>
      <parentid>15131923</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:00:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Template:Id */ reply.</comment>
      <origin>15132220</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="110453" sha1="4b0sag9fmctlb5figz15462l78epr9d" xml:space="preserve">{{process header
 | title    = Scriptorium 
 | section  =
 | previous = [[Wikisource:Index/Community|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives|Archives]]
 | shortcut = [[WS:S]]&lt;br/&gt;[[WS:SCRIPTORIUM]]
 | notes    = The '''[[wikt:scriptorium|Scriptorium]]''' is Wikisource's community discussion page. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[{{fullurl:Wikisource:Scriptorium|action=edit&amp;section=new start}} a new one]&lt;/span&gt;; please see '''[[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]'''.

The [[Wikisource:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' noticeboard]] can be used where appropriate. Some announcements and newsletters are subscribed to [[/Announcements/]].

Project members can often be found in the [[liberachat:wikisource|#wikisource]] IRC channel [https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat?channel=#wikisource webclient]. For discussion related to the entire project (not just the English chapter), please discuss at the [[:mul:Scriptorium|multilingual Wikisource]]. There are currently {{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}} [[Special:ActiveUsers|active users]] here.
{{/Navigation}}
}}
{{autoarchive resolved section
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[[Category:Bots/Archival|Scriptorium ]]
[[Category:Wikisource|Scriptorium]]
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
&lt;!-- Interwiki links --&gt;
[[mul:Scriptorium]]
&lt;!-- Interwiki links --&gt;

= Announcements =

= Proposals =
== Overriding Vector 2022 paragraph spacing ==
Since the forced deployment in November 2024, and multiple discussions including [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-01#Paragraph_spacing], [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding V22 paragraph spacing|2]], [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Switching to the Vector 2022 skin: the final date|3]], and [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Deployment of Vector 2022|4]], the idea of overriding the excessive paragraph spacing from V22 was floated multiple times. V22 raised the 0.9em spacing between paragraphs to 1.5em, which broke content that expected text to have similar size across skins (notably but not only {{tl|overfloat image}}).

This proposal is therefore to add to [[MediaWiki:Gadget-Site.css]]:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.mw-body p {
    margin:0.4em 0 0.5em 0;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Technical notes:
* this should have neither false positives nor false negatives given that &lt;code&gt;.mw-body p&lt;/code&gt; is the exact same selector used by V22.
* if site.css is loaded before the skin css, then we can just add a &lt;code&gt;html &lt;/code&gt; at the start of the selector: will not change the selection (given everything's in an html), and will give it more specificity (0,1,2 vs 0,1,1).
* 0.4em 0 0.5em 0 is exactly how it was in V10.
* this may stop working one day whenever WMF decides to IDHT another change through; but so can the entire website, and at least we'll have a fix. If it stops working, we can easily remove it and go back to our current state of having broken content.
— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} as proposer. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}}, strongly. Thanks for starting the vote! --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:51, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:58, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:09, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

= Bot approval requests =
* See [[Wikisource:Bots]]  for information about applying for a bot status
* See [[Wikisource:Bot requests]] if you require an existing bot to undertake a task

==[[User:333Bot]]==
(See also [[#Thinking of an anti-linkrot bot]].)

For non-scan backed works, sometimes the original webpage disappears and we lose the source. This task would archive automatically sources in new mainspace/talk pages at the wayback machine, and add {{tl|wml}}.

To avoid archiving vandalism, it would only do this on pages older than a week. (It won't search beyond the 2000th created page.)

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. Source's at [[User:Alien333/test#Link archiving]].

The idea would be to run this daily. Test edits: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14252&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001840] and [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14251&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001919]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:59, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
: As nearly two weeks have passed without objections, I activated this task per [[WS:BOT]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:59, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The run is over. Before launching the cronjob I will change the code to prevent it from archiving links in mainspace works' content (there are few valid reasons for extlinks in works; but there are some). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:48, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Did that, started cronjob. Will run at 16h14 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Note: For the last few days, it was stopped by an IA error on a certain page. I have now made it not crash on IA errors. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:03, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

==[[User:333Bot]] 2==
(See also [[#Seeking feedback on bot task to tag untagged deletion nominations]] for details and discussion.)

Works proposed for deletion at [[WS:PD]] or &lt;s&gt;[[WS:PD]]&lt;/s&gt;&lt;ins&gt;[[WS:CV]]&lt;/ins&gt; should be accordingly tagged. Occasionally, people forget to tag them. This task would locate these and tag them.

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. The code's at [[User:Alien333/test#Nomination_tagging]]. It would run daily. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:WS:PD or WS:PD ? Aren't they the same ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:24, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, you're right. Got mixed up. Meant PD and CV. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Heads up: I started the cronjob. (No untagged nominations rn, so may do no edits.) Runs will occur at about 5h40 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:27, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

=Repairs (and moves)=

'''Designated for requests related to the repair of works (and scans of works) presented on Wikisource'''

See also [[Wikisource:Scan lab]]

== Explanatory Notes Indices ==
Please move the following indices to their new corresponding filename
* [[Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
[[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:42, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: Errr. Feel free to trout me, but I don't understand what you're asking for.
: As in, move which pages to which titles? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::* Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-16 qp).pdf
::* Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 (UKPGA 2003-31 qp).pdf
::* Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Defamation Act 2013 (UKPGA 2013-26 qp).pdf
::* Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Modern Slavery Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-30 qp).pdf
::* Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Live Music Act 2012 (UKPGA 2012-2 qp).pdf
::* Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 (UKPGA 2011-14 qp).pdf
::This is to match filename move at commons. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:29, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

= Other discussions =
== [[Contra-Props]] ==

This article was published in a British magazine in 1941; the author died in 1946. Would this be still in copyright ? Or PD ?

(This was the subject of a previous query here which got archived without being answered - [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2019-09#1941_UK_publication]]) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:51, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
: Looks copyrighted to me. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:31, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
: Unless there's some reason they count as a US work, all UK works were restored by the URAA. The few exceptions are either Crown Copyright or were published by authors who died before 1926.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:26, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - I have put it as apparant copyright violation - [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions#Contra-Props]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That page has now been deleted so this query can be closed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:48, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Manual indexing of news articles versus Automatic indexing of news articles ==

I want to convert [[Brooklyn Eagle]] to an automatic-index instead of the hand-curated index. The hand curated index looks pretty, but is always missing articles. We can have [[The Brooklyn Eagle]] as the pretty one. See how it is done at [[Jersey Journal]], scroll to the bottom and there is a link to the pretty hand-curated list, missing many articles. This is similar to how Commons does it, you have automatic index at Category:Foo, and hand curated one as Foo, that is always missing entries. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 17:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:More automated curation of Periodicals and Newspapers on this site in the future would in general be a good thing - there's a lot of good work being done across a lot of these works but the process of creating the main-space pages for them can get very tedious and repetitive. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose had to write janky programs to semi-automate their individual workflows for some of these works.
:Your idea of a distinction between '''The Somewhere Argus''' and '''Somewhere Argus''' is interesting (and as I'm not a big user of wikimedia, not something I've particularly noticed on that site), but it doesn't seem particularly intuitive to me that one should be a raw list and another a curated view (or which way round those should be, and it seems quite a big departure from how work is generally presented here. Is it done anywhere else on this site? In the past I've seen a lot of resistance to the same work being included in different main-space pages. 
:In terms of a curated view, that may be better done by creating a Portal for that work. For example, when I worked through the July-Dec 1914 volumes of [[Punch]], I created a summary of all of the books reviewed in that volume which I put here: [[Portal:Punch/Reviewed Books]], that wouldn't really have been appropriate to put in the main page. 
:Alternatively, what's stopping you from having a list of highlights and the automatic index linked from the same page? That's effectively what [[The New York Times]] does - some of the issues are highlighted (those for which enough work has been done for them to have a complete contents page) but for the rest, there are year-based automatic lists using the {{tl|header periodical}} template. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 09:56, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
:* You are right, &quot;Portal:Brooklyn Eagle&quot; would be best for the hand curated ones, we should standardize on that, and migrate older ones to that format. Currently there are six styles of indexes for magazines and newspapers. There were at least ten different styles before I tried to standardized them. I eliminated the ones that were experimental one-of-a-kind ones. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 19:25, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Don't we already have a standard format, as documented at [[Wikisource:Periodical guidelines]] ? —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:24, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:By the way, I fixed [[Jersey Journal]]. There shouldn't be two separate mainspace pages for the same work, so I deleted the one that was simply a dump of subpages, and replaced it with the properly structured list that was previously located at [[The Jersey Journal]].
:In general, the automatic subpage listing should only be used as a temporary stop-gap until a proper page listing can be created. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:31, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::To your original point though - if you can find a way to automatically list all subpages, whether or not they have already been created, and in the correct order they appear in the publication, then that would be amazing and definitely we'd all make extensive use of such a system. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:14, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
Automate portals, have them point to Main.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:50, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

==QuickSurveys==
Apparently some new “feature” has been forced upon us again. These are annoying pop-up boxes which really mess up the formatting, especially if whatever text at the top of the page is centered (as it often is). Can this be disabled by default for everyone? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:32, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Dropped a task ([[phab:T393436]]) to ask them to not barge into the content like this, but I don't have much hope.
: And no, this extension and its parameters are a wmf thing, so we can't really do anything on our own. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:I have no clue what you're talking about. Can you tell me the steps to reproduce this issue? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:49, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::I can see it on any page that I open (and it is very disturbing), so if you do not, you might have it disabled in your preferences. See also the screenshots uploaded to the above linked phabricator task. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I don't. I'm trying to figure out which settings the original person has to see why he sees it, but if you're seeing it also, that is odd to me. I'm not sure why anyone is seeing this. I'm not. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 12:19, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::In the preferences under the &quot;User profile&quot; tab there is a section &quot;QuickSurvey extension&quot; where the surveys can be set as hidden. Currently logged out users also do not see it, but if this feature stays, we can imo expect it will be used to display messages (e.g. pleas for funding) to them as well. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: These things are highly targetable and targeted, see [[mw:Extension:QuickSurveys]]. Probably you aren't counted as an active patroller here (and this precise survey is about patrolling tools). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:57, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just an example of what I am seeing: [https://phab.wmfusercontent.org/file/data/wvrcadows4ftokyz3lyg/PHID-FILE-udsgsisdj2hq2uuva46d/screenshot3jpg.jpg] --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:06, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
*Another awful example: [[Charter Granted by Queen Elizabeth to the East India Company]]. This time, the pop-up is within the delete template. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:59, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*: Well, it just barges into the first thing it finds. They don't appear to be actively paying attention to tasks, and I don't expect them to pay attention to user feedback either, so this probably won't be fixed for a good while. My two cents are go disable it in your settings.
*: At least we've got the comfort most users don't see it.... But of course they make whatever surveys they want targeting whoever they want, so it's not that unlikely that this will become a problem for everyone in the near future.
*: Aaaahh, deploying breaking changes with no discussion, no warning, no community opt-out, and without listening to feedback. Becoming a habit, isn't it? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:43, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::It's showing up for me too.  Once I disable it on one project, then I get it on another.  Those of us who regularly visit multiple projects are going to be the most annoyed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:50, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::: Did you check the global settings? Perhaps there you can opt-out for all projects. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::I don't even have the option of using the same skin globally. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:28, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::: That's weird. So like, when you go [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-rendering-skin here], you don't see a &quot;Skin&quot;, a checkbox on whether to make it a default setting, and radio buttons with the options? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:20, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Might I suggest the following solution? : &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#bodyContent .ext-quick-survey-panel {display:none;}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 00:57, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::There's a setting to always hide them; the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole (except through site css, but Xover is the only active intadmin and has shown much reticence to adding that kind of stuff (see [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding_V22_paragraph_spacing]])). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:18, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: If that is an issue, we can simply come to a consensus, as a community, that the QS system needs to be blocked, and direct him to make the appropriate changes reflecting that consensus. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 12:35, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:Yes, the reticence of one admin should not override community consensus, and Xover knows that as well as the rest of us :) (that being said, I think a proper proposal would be necessary to determine consensus for something like this) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:13, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::Is amending the user profile, as stated by Jan above, not a good enough solution ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:11, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::: From the technical standpoint, yes, changing site CSS is 99% sure to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:::As Alien333 said, the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole - and you can't do that with the user profile. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:00, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Second pair of eyes for unclear letter ==

At [[Page:Poems Hornblower.djvu/110]], the last letter of {{tqi|Draw with their very breath—the poisonous faith}} is not super clear. I think I see the beginning of the arch of an h going right from the vertical bar after the t, but I'd appreciate if someone could give a quick look and confirm or not. (Compare also the {{tqi|faith}} from {{tqi|The world's cold faith,}} a few lines above.) Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:51, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:I think your assessment is good.  &quot;poisonous faith&quot; works with &quot;inglorious views&quot; and the soul straying from a &quot;diviner walk&quot;.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 21:02, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
::I agree; scans of different copies of the same book show the same misprinting ([https://books.google.com/books?id=ox1kAAAAcAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 BL], [https://books.google.com/books?id=fCQOAAAAQAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 Bod]), but the start of the arch of the 'h' is just visible in all. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:40, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to both. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:16, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== FYI: Wikisource: Preserving the Past for the Future ==

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2025/05/13/wikisource-preserving-the-past-for-the-future/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
*Who is Nanteza Divine Gabriella? I don’t recognize the name. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:11, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:* [[User:DivineGaby]] [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:53, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

== Call for Candidates for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
The results of voting on the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement Guidelines and Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) Charter is [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Annual review/2025#Results|available on Meta-wiki]].

You may now [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025/Candidates|submit your candidacy to serve on the U4C]] through 29 May 2025 at 12:00 UTC. Information about [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|eligibility, process, and the timeline are on Meta-wiki]]. Voting on candidates will open on 1 June 2025 and run for two weeks, closing on 15 June 2025 at 12:00 UTC.

If you have any questions, you can ask on [[m:Talk:Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|the discussion page for the election]]. -- in cooperation with the U4C, &lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[m:User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[m:User_talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]])&lt;/bdi&gt; 22:07, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Billingual template with Welsh Parliament Acts ==

The formatting problems that @[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] complained about in [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] could be fixed by using the {{tl|Bilingual}} template, however this creates its own formatting problems which I have shown at [[Wikisource:Sandbox]]. Additionally, the page numbers don't match up because the page numbers go up every second page due to the welsh version of a page using the same page number as the corresponding english version. Does anyone know how to fix this. 

Additionally, could someone make a version of the Bilingual template that could be more useful for longer works such as [[Index:Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2023 (ASC 2023-3 kp).pdf]] so whoever ends up working on that doesn't have to use the template over 200 times in one page. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:33, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:Not sure about the code for this, but would it be possible to transclude multiple pages at once like [[Template:Side by side]] using the &lt;code&gt;&lt;pages&gt;&lt;/code&gt; syntax, but reset the display each page so that the first lines of each page line up? I'm sure there's some struggle with that preserving the indents using colons like appears when using [[Template:Bilingual]]... [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 21:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
::The current practice for bitexts like this, is to transclude the English here, and the alternate pages at the Wikisource for the other language.  The two can then be linked to each other in the notes section of the header.  There are some exceptions here, and you can see an example at [[Modern Czech Poetry/October sonnet]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The Welsh elements of [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] have been moved over to Welsh Wikisource, and the pages have been linked in Wikidata and mentioned in the notes section! [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:29, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[:File:Weird Tales Volume 13 Number 06 (1929-06).djvu]] ==

This was originally uploaded to Commons with pages that were still in copyright redacted. Those are now out of copyright. What is the best way to restore them ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:19, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:Upload a new version of the file over the top of what's there. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:52, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
: That's assuming that placeholders were left. If not, then we need to first shift the Page:s to give room for the added pages. I can do that; ping me if it's needed. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:15, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you both. Yes, on this one, there are blank pages where the text was redacted, so taht should work fine. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:03, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== HathiTrust ==

[[Help:Image extraction#HathiTrust]] no longer works me; when I try running it, I just get Error 403.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 08:27, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I haven't tried any programs myself, but there are a few image downloader programs for HathiTrust available on GitHub, [https://github.com/Addono/HathiTrust-downloader this one for example]. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of HathiTrust can vouch for a particular method. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:22, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Linking to Explanatory Notes for UK Legislation ==

@[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] @[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] I've seen 3 different ways of linking to Explanatory Notes currently seen at [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]], [[Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011]], and [[Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015]] and I feel like we should have some consistency with how we link to Explanatory Notes. How should we go about linking to Explanatory Notes. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:25, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I did Welsh as I did because the King's Printer version included a formal title page including the mention of the explanatory notes. With Fixed Term Parliaments, it doesn't have that page, so the inclusion of the note makes sense. We could add that to ones that do have the title page. I personally don't know if using the &quot;next&quot; parameter like in Specialist Printing is best, because it prevents us from using that parameter to link to the next act that year, if that's something we wanted to do. I know it's done in some other countries that have full years of acts transcluded. Similar issue in Fixed Term Parliaments using &quot;next&quot; for the Schedules.&lt;br&gt;
:I think best is to link things mentioned within the title/TOC like in [[Scotland Act 1998]], including Explanatory Notes if there, and then we can mention Explanatory Notes in the &quot;notes&quot; of the header, and leave &quot;previous&quot; and &quot;next&quot; for linking to surrounding acts. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:48, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== Page marked historical ==

Heads up that I tagged [[Wikisource:Purchases]] with {{tl|historical}} since it hasn't actually been in use in several years. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:48, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: This project page is interesting and was unknown to me until just now. It is very similar to an idea that [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] and I have discussed recently, which would involve creating a centralized page in the Project namespace for requests for scans to be made where no scans appear to be accessible online (which would replace [[User:TE(æ)A,ea./Requests]] in their personal user space). My suggested name was either [[WS:Requests for scans]], or making that a section of the [[WS:Scan Lab]]. FYI, because of the inter-library loan (ILL) system, very few books would actually need to be ''bought'' in order to be scanned anymore (as far as I understand it), but buying should definitely be an option for those who are willing to donate the material, in cases where ILL is not possible. All in all, the Purchases page has merit conceptually, but in its current implementation inserting {{tl|historical}} was the right move. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:00, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-21 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The Editing Team and the Machine Learning Team are working on a new check for newcomers: [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check|Peacock check]]. Using a prediction model, this check will encourage editors to improve the tone of their edits, using artificial intelligence. We invite volunteers to review the first version of the Peacock language model for the following languages: Arabic, Spanish, Portuguese, English, and Japanese. Users from these wikis interested in reviewing this model are [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check/model test|invited to sign up at MediaWiki.org]]. The deadline to sign up is on May 23, which will be the start date of the test.

'''Updates for editors'''

* From May 20, 2025, [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Oversight policy|oversighters]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Meta:CheckUsers|checkusers]] will need to have their accounts secured with two-factor authentication (2FA) to be able to use their advanced rights. All users who belong to these two groups and do not have 2FA enabled have been informed. In the future, this requirement may be extended to other users with advanced rights. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Mandatory two-factor authentication for users with some extended rights|Learn more]].
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]]  [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|Multiblocks]] will begin mass deployment by the end of the month: all non-Wikipedia projects plus Catalan Wikipedia will adopt Multiblocks in the week of May 26, while all other Wikipedias will adopt it in the week of June 2. Please [[m:Talk:Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|contact the team]] if you have concerns. Administrators can test the new user interface now on your own wiki by browsing to [{{fullurl:Special:Block|usecodex=1}} {{#special:Block}}?usecodex=1], and can test the full multiblocks functionality [[testwiki:Special:Block|on testwiki]]. Multiblocks is the feature that makes it possible for administrators to impose different types of blocks on the same user at the same time. See the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|help page]] for more information. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* Later this week, the [[{{#special:SpecialPages}}]] listing of almost all special pages will be updated with a new design. This page has been [[phab:T219543|redesigned]] to improve the user experience in a few ways, including: The ability to search for names and aliases of the special pages, sorting, more visible marking of restricted special pages, and a more mobile-friendly look. The new version can be [https://meta.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:SpecialPages previewed] at Beta Cluster now, and feedback shared in the task. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219543]
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is being enabled on more wikis. For a detailed list of when the extension will be enabled on your wiki, please read the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart/Project#Deployment Timeline|deployment timeline]].
* [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Main Page|Wikifunctions]] will be deployed on May 27 on five Wiktionaries: [[wikt:ha:|Hausa]], [[wikt:ig:|Igbo]], [[wikt:bn:|Bengali]], [[wikt:ml:|Malayalam]], and [[wikt:dv:|Dhivehi/Maldivian]]. This is the second batch of deployment planned for the project. After deployment, the projects will be able to call [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Introduction|functions from Wikifunctions]] and integrate them in their pages. A function is something that takes one or more inputs and transforms them into a desired output, such as adding up two numbers, converting miles into metres, calculating how much time has passed since an event, or declining a word into a case. Wikifunctions will allow users to do that through a simple call of [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Catalogue|a stable and global function]], rather than via a local template.
* Later this week, the Wikimedia Foundation will publish a hub for [[diffblog:2024/07/09/on-the-value-of-experimentation/|experiments]]. This is to showcase and get user feedback on product experiments. The experiments help the Wikimedia movement [[diffblog:2023/07/13/exploring-paths-for-the-future-of-free-knowledge-new-wikipedia-chatgpt-plugin-leveraging-rich-media-social-apps-and-other-experiments/|understand new users]], how they interact with the internet and how it could affect the Wikimedia movement. Some examples are [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Generated Video|generated video]], the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Roblox game|Wikipedia Roblox speedrun game]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Discord bot|the Discord bot]].
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:29}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:29|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, there was a bug with creating an account using the API, which has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T390751]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Gadgets and user scripts that interact with [[{{#special:Block}}]] may need to be updated to work with the new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|manage blocks interface]]. Please review the [[mw:Help:Manage blocks/Developers|developer guide]] for more information. If you need help or are unable to adapt your script to the new interface, please let the team know on the [[mw:Help talk:Manage blocks/Developers|talk page]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.title&lt;/code&gt; object allows you to get information about a specific wiki page in the [[w:en:Wikipedia:Lua|Lua]] programming language. Starting this week, a new property will be added to the object, named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;isDisambiguationPage&lt;/code&gt;. This property allows you to check if a page is a disambiguation page, without the need to write a custom function. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T71441]
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|15px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] User script developers can use a [[toolforge:gitlab-content|new reverse proxy tool]] to load javascript and css from [[gitlab:|gitlab.wikimedia.org]] with &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.loader.load&lt;/code&gt;. The tool's author hopes this will enable collaborative development workflows for user scripts including linting, unit tests, code generation, and code review on &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;gitlab.wikimedia.org&lt;/bdi&gt; without a separate copy-and-paste step to publish scripts to a Wikimedia wiki for integration and acceptance testing. See [[wikitech:Tool:Gitlab-content|Tool:Gitlab-content on Wikitech]] for more information.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.2|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* The 12th edition of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wiki Workshop 2025|Wiki Workshop 2025]], a forum that brings together researchers that explore all aspects of Wikimedia projects, will be held virtually on 21-22 May. Researchers can [https://pretix.eu/wikimedia/wikiworkshop2025/ register now].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 23:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
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== RfC ongoing regarding Abstract Wikipedia (and your project) ==

&lt;div lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;
''(Apologies for posting in English, if this is not your first language)''

Hello all! We opened a discussion on Meta about a very delicate issue for the development of [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]]: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. Since some of the hypothesis involve your project, we wanted to hear your thoughts too. 

We want to make the decision process clear: we do not yet know which option we want to use, which is why we are consulting here. We will take the arguments from the Wikimedia communities into account, and we want to consult with the different communities and hear arguments that will help us with the decision. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

You can read the various hypothesis and have your say at [[:m:Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]]. Thank you in advance! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|&lt;span class=&quot;signature-talk&quot;&gt;{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}&lt;/span&gt;]]) 15:27, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Weird Tales file and index with incorrect name ==

[[Index:Weird Tales Volume 02 Number 2 (1937-02).djvu]] should say Volume 29. Do you think I should ask for the file on Commons to be moved, and then to have the index and pages here moved ? Or just leave it as it is ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:15, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
: Given some of it is already transcluded, and that the index is not exposed to the end reader, I'd say leaving a comment like {{tqi|(typo in file name)}} in the index title field would be enough of a clarification. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 04:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - thanks. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:39, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== Official Launch of The Million Wiki Project ==

We are thrilled to announce the official launch of [[m:The_Million_Wiki_Project|The Million Wiki Project!]]
[[File:Million Wiki Logo - Colored.svg|200px|right]]
Our mission is to enrich Wikimedia projects with high-quality and diverse content related to the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region. This initiative focuses on creating new articles, multimedia, structured data, and more, covering topics from MENA countries, communities, and diaspora worldwide.

'''Who Can Participate?'''&lt;br&gt;
All registered Wikimedians are welcome to join! Whether you're an individual contributor or part of an organization, your support is valuable. We encourage content creation in any of the six official UN languages (Arabic, English, French, Russian, Spanish, and soon Chinese).

'''What Kind of Content Are We Looking For?'''

* New Wikipedia articles focused on MENA topics
* Multimedia contributions on Wikimedia Commons (photos, videos)
* Structured data for Wikidata
* Language entries on Wiktionary
* Public domain texts on Wikisource

Note: Make sure your content follows local Wikimedia guidelines and licensing policies, including Freedom of Panorama for media files.

Join us in bridging content gaps and showcasing the richness of the MENA region on Wikimedia platforms! &lt;br&gt;
Stay tuned for more updates and participation guidelines. [[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 09:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== New texts list ==

Does a work count as &quot;complete&quot; for the purposes of the new texts list if the book has an index which has not been transcribed nor transcluded ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:56, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
: No. There have been multiple discussions, notably at [[Template talk:New texts]], where a consensus emerged that a work must be proofread and transcluded (but that there was not a need for validation). If you find an unproofread/untranscluded work, you can remove it.
: Sometimes sub-works that are works in their own right without the others (such a play in a collection of plays) also get listed on new text; for such works, it looks like the pratice is to only require that their part of the index be proofread and transcluded. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Radio Times ==

Please join the discussion at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:35, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Beginner's guide to copyright missing a key issue ==

Please could someone add a bullet point to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] about what happens regarding the hosting of scans of works which are considered out-of-copyright by this Wikisource, but not by Wikimedia Commons (for example, where they are still in copyright in Europe, but not the US)? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:30, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

:That's not a copyright concern, but a compatibility concern, so it's covered at [[Help:Licensing compatibility]], which is linked from the bottom of the page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:55, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::It is a copyright concern, and is not about licensing.
::The page to which I referred is styled as a guide for ''Beginners'', and is where a beginner would reasonably look for such information. The page already discusses how other Wikimedia projects choose to respect non-United States copyright law, in contrast to this project, so the additional point under discussion is relevant there.
::Furthermore, the subject is not covered at Help:Licensing compatibility, which includes only one mention of Wikimedia Commons; and that in a section which does not touch on the issue I mention, but is in a section about discussions of the prohibition of &quot;no derivative&quot; clauses. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The &quot;Beginner's guide to copyright&quot; is about copyright itself.  Where our files are stored is not an issue of copyright law.  The Licensing compatibility covers which items are allowed to be hosted here, which ''is'' affected by copyright status, but copyright is ''not'' the only concern, there are other licensing issues that affect what can be hosted here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:37, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Whether a file is stored locally rather than on Commons if often decided ''solely'' on it's copyright status, which is in turn wholly a factor of copyright law.
::::Again: the licensing compatability page does not mention this issue ''at all''.
::::Again: this is not a matter of ''licensing''. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So then, you're looking for [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]]?  Again, where to upload a file may be ''affected'' by the copyright status of the work, but it's not a part of copyright law. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:26, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, I am not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:31, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::This is the page that says: &quot;Usually, the DjVu or PDF file should be uploaded directly to Wikimedia Commons (one of Wikisource's sister sites that holds images and files for general use).  However, Commons chooses to respect the copyright laws of the home country of any work, which Wikisource does not.  In cases where non-United States publications are in the public domain in the United States but not in their home countries, they should be uploaded directly to Wikisource instead.  This method is the same as the method to upload and add images.&quot;  Is that not what you are asking about? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:38, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::No. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:43, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Can you please clarify then? Because this looks to me to be exactly what you were asking about at the start of this thread. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

=== Clarity of Help page ===
User:Pigsonthewing has made [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3ABeginner%27s_guide_to_copyright&amp;oldid=prev&amp;diff=15092053 this change] to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]], with the comment &quot;This is not tangent; it relates directly to the page's pre-existing point about projects &quot;choose to respect non-United States copyright law. English Wikisource does not&quot; and hinges directly on the copyright status of works concerned&quot;

My concern is that this inserts a second tangential issue into a set of paragraphs explaining copyright law.

The text looks like this with the added text in '''bold''':

{{blockquote|
; Non-United States publications
The rules about non-United States publications can get complicated.

Some works may be in the public domain in the United States even if they are still under copyright in their home countries '''(these works should be uploaded directly to Wikisource, not Wikimedia Commons)'''. Other works may be in the public domain in their home countries but still under copyright in the United States '''(these works are not eligible for inclusion on this Wikisource'''.

For example, the last collection of Sherlock Holmes stories, ''[[The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes]]'', was published in 1927
}}

The text is concerned with the copyright status of works, not with the uploading of files.  The added text is concerned with the uploading of files, which is discussed on the page [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]], which has a section devoted to the uploading of source files.

I believe the additions to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] are intrusive, because they insert a second topic into a paragraph that is already about a complicated topic.  I also believe they are superfluous, because we already have a Beginner's guide page that explains where to upload files. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:03, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-22 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* A community-wide discussion about a very delicate issue for the development of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]] is now open on Meta: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. The discussion is open until June 12 at [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]], and every opinion is welcomed. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

'''Updates for editors'''
* Since last week, on all wikis except [[phab:T388604|the largest 20]], people using the mobile visual editor will have [[phab:T385851|additional tools in the menu bar]], accessed using the new &lt;code&gt;+&lt;/code&gt; toolbar button. To start, the new menu will include options to add: citations, hieroglyphs, and code blocks. Deployment to the remaining wikis is [[phab:T388605|scheduled]] to happen in June.
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexist|#ifexist]]&lt;/code&gt; parser function will no longer register a link to its target page. This will improve the usefulness of [[{{#special:WantedPages}}]], which will eventually only list pages that are the target of an actual red link. This change will happen gradually as the source pages are updated. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T14019]
* This week, the Moderator Tools team will launch [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], starting at Indonesian Wikipedia. This new filter highlights edits that are likely to be reverted. The goal is to help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic edits. Other wikis will benefit from this filter in the future.
* Upon clicking an empty search bar, logged-out users will see suggestions of articles for further reading. The feature will be available on both desktop and mobile. Readers of Catalan, Hebrew, and Italian Wikipedias and some sister projects will receive the change between May 21 and mid-June. Readers of other wikis will receive the change later. The goal is to encourage users to read the wikis more. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Reading/Web/Content Discovery Experiments/Search Suggestions|Learn more]].
* Some users of the Wikipedia Android app can use a new feature for readers, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Apps/Team/Android/TrivaGame|WikiGames]], a daily trivia game based on real historical events. The release has started as an A/B test, available to 50% of users in the following languages: English, French, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, and Turkish.
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Newsletter|Newsletter extension]] that is available on MediaWiki.org allows the creation of [[mw:Special:Newsletters|various newsletters]] for global users. The extension can now publish new issues as section links on an existing page, instead of requiring a new page for each issue. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T393844]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:32}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:32|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* The previously deprecated &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Ipblocks table|ipblocks]]&lt;/code&gt; views in [[wikitech:Help:Wiki Replicas|Wiki Replicas]] will be removed in the beginning of June. Users are encouraged to query the new &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block table|block]]&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block target table|block_target]]&lt;/code&gt; views instead.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.3|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects|Wikidata and Sister Projects]] is a multi-day online event that will focus on how Wikidata is integrated to Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. The event runs from May 29 – June 1. You can [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects#Sessions|read the Program schedule]] and [[d:Special:RegisterForEvent/1291|register]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 20:04, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Works as a header ==

Is &quot;Works&quot; by itself as a header in Portals meant to be read as &quot;Works by&quot; or &quot;Works about&quot;? I see it mostly used to mean &quot;Works by&quot; when I see it in Author space and it is separated into &quot;Works by&quot; and &quot;Works about&quot; when the two exist. That is why it looks odd in location Portal space as in [[Portal:Westbrookville, New York]]. IT looks like it the works were written by the location. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 03:15, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: I replaced the L2 &quot;Works about ...&quot; to &quot;Works&quot; to keep it consistent with what's done on most other portal entries on the site. &quot;Works&quot; here means &quot;Works about&quot;. However, as of right now there appears to be no official standard for which header to use. [[Wikisource:Portal guidelines]] and [[Help:Portals]] say nothing about a &quot;Works&quot; section or &quot;Works about&quot; section.
: If &quot;Works&quot; sections should be changed to &quot;Works about&quot; by some informal vote here, then it's probably best to make it an official policy. We should consider also using bots to keep up with the maintenance that would be required to standardize all portal L2s one way or the other.
: Wikisource lacking structure is a massive problem here IMO, since for example Wiktionary has their quite detailed &quot;[[wikt:WT:ELE|Entry layout explained]]&quot; policy page, while the typical Wikisource culture is just to sorta do whatever we want in most areas that could be given a ruleset. This makes things like parsing our content especially difficult, for example. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:06, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::However, there are a number of portals where &quot;works by&quot; is applicable - government departments, for example. 
::If we want to be consistent, I think it would be best to have the same policy for both Authors and Portals. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:39, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That would not make sense for Portals unless they are People Portals.  We would never have &quot;Works by Philosophy&quot; as a header.  And on any larger Portal, it also makes no sense to have a &quot;Works about&quot; header, since potentially everything on the Portal is about the subject of the Portal.  But there are also Portals where the content is '''neither''' by nor about; for example [[Portal:French literature]], where the works ''are'' French literature, and not work written by French literature, nor works about French literature. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:44, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Red link in Monthly Challenge ==

There is a red link in the monthly challenge for [[Author:Department of Defense]] - I understand that author page should not be created. Should that link instead to [[Portal:United States Department of Defense]] ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:42, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

:Yes. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:45, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::Please could somebody make that change - the work is &quot;United States – Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967&quot;. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:40, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::: {{done}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Cheers. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees 2025 Selection &amp; Call for Questions ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
:''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement|{{int:interlanguage-link-mul}}]] • [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&amp;group=page-{{urlencode:Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement}}&amp;language=&amp;action=page&amp;filter= {{int:please-translate}}]''

Dear all,

This year, the term of 2 (two) Community- and Affiliate-selected Trustees on the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees will come to an end [1]. The Board invites the whole movement to participate in this year’s selection process and vote to fill those seats.

The Elections Committee will oversee this process with support from Foundation staff [2]. The Governance Committee, composed of trustees who are not candidates in the 2025 community-and-affiliate-selected trustee selection process (Raju Narisetti, Shani Evenstein Sigalov, Lorenzo Losa, Kathy Collins, Victoria Doronina and Esra’a Al Shafei) [3], is tasked with providing Board oversight for the 2025 trustee selection process and for keeping the Board informed. More details on the roles of the Elections Committee, Board, and staff are here [4].

Here are the key planned dates:

* May 22 – June 5: Announcement (this communication) and call for questions period [6]
* June 17 – July 1, 2025: Call for candidates
* July 2025: If needed, affiliates vote to shortlist candidates if more than 10 apply [5]
* August 2025: Campaign period
* August – September 2025: Two-week community voting period
* October – November 2025: Background check of selected candidates
* Board’s Meeting in December 2025: New trustees seated

Learn more about the 2025 selection process - including the detailed timeline, the candidacy process, the campaign rules, and the voter eligibility criteria - on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025|[link]]].

'''Call for Questions'''

In each selection process, the community has the opportunity to submit questions for the Board of Trustees candidates to answer. The Election Committee selects questions from the list developed by the community for the candidates to answer. Candidates must answer all the required questions in the application in order to be eligible; otherwise their application will be disqualified. This year, the Election Committee will select 5 questions for the candidates to answer. The selected questions may be a combination of what’s been submitted from the community, if they’re alike or related. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates|[link]]]

'''Election Volunteers'''

Another way to be involved with the 2025 selection process is to be an Election Volunteer. Election Volunteers are a bridge between the Elections Committee and their respective community. They help ensure their community is represented and mobilize them to vote. Learn more about the program and how to join on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Election_volunteers|[link].]]

Thank you!

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2022/Results

[2] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Committee:Elections_Committee_Charter

[3] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Committee_Membership,_December_2024

[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections_committee/Roles

[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/FAQ

[6] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates

Best regards,

Victoria Doronina

Board Liaison to the Elections Committee

Governance Committee&lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 03:08, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:RamzyM (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=28618011 --&gt;

== We are looking for a pilot for our new feature, Favourite Templates ==

Hello everyone! [[meta:Community Tech|Community Tech]] are building a new feature, called [[metawiki:Community_Wishlist/Focus_areas/Template_recall_and_discovery|Favourite Templates]], that will provide a better way for new and experienced contributors to recall and discover templates via the template dialog, that works with both VisualEditor and wikitext editor. We hope this will increase dialog usage and the number of templates added.

Since 2013, experienced volunteers have asked for a more intuitive template selector, exposing popular or most-used templates on the template dialog. At this stage of work, we are focusing on allowing users to put templates in a “favourite” list, so that their reuse will be easier. At a later stage, we will focus on helping users discover or find templates.

We are looking for potential additional testers for Favourite Templates, and we thought you might be interested in trying it out. If so, please let us know if it is the case, we would be happy to set up a pilot. So far, the feature has been deployed successfully on Polish and Arabic Wikipedia, and we’re currently in talks with other projects for expanding the pilot phase.

In addition, we’d love to hear your feedback and ideas for helping people find and insert templates. Some ideas we’ve identified are searching or browsing templates by category, or showing the number of times a template has been transcluded.

Of course, we are ready to answer your questions and to give you all the information you need. Thanks in advance!

—[[User:SWilson (WMF)|SWilson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SWilson (WMF)|talk]]) 05:23, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== DTIC file - Colors in Terrain ==


Is this PD-US-Gov?

https://archive.org/details/DTIC_ADA277204/page/n3/mode/2up

If so I'd like to put it on Wikisource. In addition it would be appreciated if someone with expertise could advise on how to reconstruct the XYZ values from the xy and luminance factors given.  This is so I can make used of the dataset (with citation) in respect of other projects. (I would of course be happy with a relevant color chart being constructed as a semi-formal academic paper over on Wikiversity.)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:52, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think, unfortunately, it is not PD-US-Gov. I don't believe US Gov contractors count as federal employees for the purpose of copyright law, and the [https://www.acquisition.gov/far/27.404-3 Federal Acquisition Regulation 27.404-3] specifically outlines that contractor producers of scientific and technical reports have blanket permission to reassert copyright on their research. That same regulation notes that the free unlimited distribution license which is noted on the document is just to the US Gov; I don't believe the public can tap into that license to redistribute.
:Perhaps someone with more US Gov works experience can chime in though. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:13, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

: Bother. Looks like I'll have to find the original journal articles directly then. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:38, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
: The source dataset seems to be a 1940's translation published in Canada of a 1943 Russian language work, This gets interesting. Can someone dig a little deeper? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Have we lost some Validated Indexes? ==

On 11 Sept. 2024 I updated [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] with our 6500th completed index. I just went to check on progress to the next milestone of 7000 only to discover that there are only 5284 in [[:Category:Index Validated]]. How and when did we lose over 1500 validated Indexes? [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:19, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
: I place my bet on the index lua error from two months and a half ago. We have ~12k indexes that just don't have ''any'' categories (out of 35583 total indexes). I think some of those affected by the bug had all their Page:s already transcluded, and so the Page:s didn't count as orphan and we didn't find them yet. The categorylink table must just have not been updated. Confirmation of this: The first thus uncategorised index reported when I queried was [[Index:! Explosive objects in War in Ukraine, 2022 (01).jpg]]. It had page_links_updated set to 20250311190213, which is 11 march, the date of the lua index error. On a null edit, it disappeared from the list. We probably ought to get 'round to null-editing all these indexes. I'm really busy these days but I could patch up some code next week. 12k is not that much. If we say one null edit/min that makes 12k minutes, or 200 hours, or just over a week. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:07, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (FYI: the complete list is [https://quarry.wmcloud.org/query/94236 here]. To refresh (you need to have forked) just re-submit. Replag aside, should update instantaneously.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:24, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Hadn't thought of that, despite the fact that I've been null-editing Indexes via LonelyPages every three days. I'm part way through G with another update due this evening (my time). Any Index that is not pdf or djvu has been skipped over. Where there are Pages without an Index, I've left them for investigation later. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 17:58, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Any specific reason for skipping non-pdf/djvu indexes? Normally they should work like others. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:01, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Because the listing in LonelyPages is the Page namespace and the link to the Index doesn't appear as a tab in the same way. Thus easier to ignore at present and then deal with as a group later. I much prefer dealing with a single workflow at a time. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::By the way - the orphaned pages listing was actually updated yesterday - it starts again on the first of the month,
::::::I have been trying to reduce the main pages on the orphaned pages list. A number of those have been works transcluded but affected by the index lua error. (And so not linked from anywhere else). I have tried adding other links as well. Of course, this means that main pages affected by the lua error do not show there if they already were linked from elsewhere. --
::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::: @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] and [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] : the query I linked to above ''does'' give an exhaustive list, transclusion or no transclusion, exploiting the fact that broken indexes lost their categories. It also gives the indexes not the pages, so there's no trouble of reaching the index from the pages. If you want, I can reasonably easily get the list into a wikipage with links (as opposed to the quarry result of just page names). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:37, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I've made a list at [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]]. Having already dealt with some, it's reduced in size by ca. 500 from the initial. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:21, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: Would you mind other editors editing that page? So we can remove those that are done and keep track of where we're at. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:41, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I've forked the query to select .djvu indexes (&lt;code&gt;page_title like '%.djvu'&lt;/code&gt;). 3600 are remaining. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 10:52, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::: Welp, we do also have to do the PDFs. It's not a good thing, but many indexes are done PDF. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:54, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I have no problems with other editors editing the page. Keeping track and not duplicating effort is always good. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 22:33, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All DjVu indexes done. The page is updated. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All jpg, jpeg, webm indexes done. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All not .pdf indexes done (6,818). [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]] updated. Now 5,641 pages in Category:Index Validated • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The proposed query has to be modified, ~2000 indexes having categories other than &quot;Index:...&quot;.
::::::::::::I have used as a jointure: 
:::::::::::::&lt;code&gt;and page_id not in ( select cl_from  from categorylinks   where cl_to like 'Index%' )&lt;/code&gt;
::::::::::::to get a new list. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:29, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: &lt;code&gt; AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM categorylinks WHERE cl_from = page_id AND cl_to LIKE 'Index%')&lt;/code&gt; is probably faster. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: As a side note, I found why these indexes have some of their cats but not all: the categories that are added manually are actually out of the template; so when the template broke, they only lost the categories that relied on it; which means the status cats &amp;co, but not the manual ones. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:56, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::All Indexes in the second list are now null-edited and [[:Category:Index Validated]] is at 6953, which approximately what I was expecting to see. There are only 141 in the Validated category that need to have their transclusion status checked. Thanks to {{ping|M-le-mot-dit}} for the assistance on getting all the Indexes null-edited so quickly. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:42, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:The milestone of 7000 Validated indexes was reached yesterday. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 07:57, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (I think it's [[Index:Skyes Picot, The Manchester Guardian, Monday, November 26, 1917, p5.jpg]].) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The Category contains a template ({{tl|Proofreadpage_index_template/testcases}}), so it may be [[Index:The President's Proclamation (Proctor, 1963).jpg]]. Quarry gives 7004 indexes. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Indeed, good catch! :) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:13, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::It was indeed The President's Proclamation. [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] has been updated. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-23 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is now available on all Wikimedia wikis. Editors can use this new extension to create interactive data visualizations like bar, line, area, and pie charts. Charts are designed to replace many of the uses of the legacy [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Graph|Graph extension]].

'''Updates for editors'''
* It is now easier to configure automatic citations for your wiki within the visual editor's [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Citoid/Enabling Citoid on your wiki|citation generator]]. Administrators can now set a default template by using the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;_default&lt;/code&gt; key in the local &lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[MediaWiki:Citoid-template-type-map.json]]&lt;/bdi&gt; page ([[mw:Special:Diff/6969653/7646386|example diff]]). Setting this default will also help to future-proof your existing configurations when [[phab:T347823|new item types]] are added in the future. You can still set templates for individual item types as they will be preferred to the default template. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384709]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:20}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:20|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Starting the week of June 2, bots logging in using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=clientlogin&lt;/code&gt; will fail more often. This is because of stronger protections against suspicious logins. Bots using [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Bot passwords|bot passwords]] or using a loginless authentication method such as [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/OAuth/Owner-only consumers|OAuth]] are not affected. If your bot is not using one of those, you should update it; using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; without a bot password was deprecated [[listarchive:list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/3EEMN7VQX5G7WMQI5K2GP5JC2336DPTD/|in 2016]]. For most bots, this only requires changing what password the bot uses. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T395205]
* From this week, Wikimedia wikis will allow ES2017 features in JavaScript code for official code, gadgets, and user scripts. The most visible feature of ES2017 is &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;code&gt;async&lt;/code&gt;/&lt;code&gt;await&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/bdi&gt; syntax, allowing for easier-to-read code. Until this week, the platform only allowed up to ES2016, and a few months before that, up to ES2015. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T381537]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.4|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* Scholarship applications to participate in the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025|GLAM Wiki Conference 2025]] are now open. The conference will take place from 30 October to 1 November, in Lisbon, Portugal. GLAM contributors who lack the means to support their participation can [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025/Scholarships|apply here]]. Scholarship applications close on June 7th.

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== Copyright status of a work. ==

This is listed as public domain on Hathi:-
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31210024780379&amp;seq=15

However, it contains apparenty reprints of papers published in other works, which may need additional evalaution.

The author of the papers seems to have been an active Employee at the NBS (later NIST), So can someone make a determination as to this work's potential inclusion in Wikisource, given that the works itself is Federal?. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:00, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}} I've sent the NIST an email, hopefully they reply. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:54, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: The concern is that some of the papers appear to be published in Journals, which given the dates would have had active registrations, (even if the individual author concerned didn't make individual periodical ones.). [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:05, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}}
:This is the response from the NIST:
:&quot;Hi,
:Generally, official writings by federal employees are not subject to copyright protection within the United States (a narrow exception to this policy exists in the case of Standard Reference Data published under the provisions of the Standard Reference Data Act (Public Law 90-396). The Act permits NIST to copyright Standard Reference Data.  Click here for more information.)  However, the government may be able to assert copyright in countries other than the United States.  When official writings by NIST employees, except those covered under the Standard Reference Data Act, are submitted to a non-NIST publication, a statement should be included indicating that the material is not subject to copyright protection within the United States. If you are asked to sign a publication permission form, you should have it reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST prior to signing.  Some journals will accept our copyright form. (In fact, some journals will request this copyright form.) (External co-authors may be asked to sign an agreement transferring their copyright to the publisher, which they may choose to do.)
:Sample statement: Official contribution of the National Institute of Standards and Technology; not subject to copyright in the United States.
:Note that in most instances NIST Research Associates could assert copyright but may have agreed not to assert US copyright in their work done at NIST when they signed their NIST Associate’s Agreement. Whether or not to include the ‘not subject to copyright in the United States’ statement on manuscripts jointly authored by federal NIST employees and NIST Associates is a factual matter to be determined when the publication is drafted.
:If you are asked to sign a publisher’s agreement for your publication that agreement must first be reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.
:If you encounter any problems with a publisher, or need any help, contact the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.&quot;
:I think this is a yes, thoughts? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 11:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: Hmm, so that says NIST Research Associate works without other notices, are possibles. However, in respect of this specifc collection, some of the later articles are from Journals with their own copyrights and thus can't be included (because of the Journal Copyright, rather than the contributors.). On that basis, the original papers will have to be tracked down and evaluated on a paper by paper basis. 
:BTW for a Government agency, that response is suprisingly clear for our purposes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Colour vs b/w image? ==

Hi, I was finding the image for [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Taming_Liquid_Hydrogen_The_Centaur_Upper_Stage_Rocket.pdf/58]. For this text, instead of extracting from the low quality PDF, since they are all catalogued NASA images, I have just looked up the image IDs and downloaded them directly from the NASA/DVIDS website. However, for this specific page, the image is black and white, but I found a high-quality colour version at [https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/historic-facilities/rocket-engine-test-facility/retf-staff/]. What should I do? Use the colour version as is or convert it to black/white first? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:29, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: My 2¢ would be convert it to black &amp; white, as that's what the source has. The low-quality is very probably due to bad scanning. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 22:15, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== 'Indexes validated in [month]' category ==

Why does [[Index:Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf]] appear in [[:Category:Indexes validated in June 2025]], yet [[Index:Reference to some of the works executed in stained glass - William Raphael Eginton.pdf]] does not? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:46, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

:I expect it is because the former has an  entry in the box &quot;Validation date&quot; and the latter has that box blank. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:59, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]], @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] It is not longer blank now! But yes, you do have to manually fill in the validation date box, by editing the index page. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:01, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. (Though the index page was amended to show all validated in May.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:18, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:::[https://petscan.wmcloud.org/?psid=35284922 Petscan] lists 136 indexes in the above situation. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::I've sorted 96 of them, but need to call it a night. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 10:14, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Monthly Challenge colors on dark mode ==

For some reason the colors for the to fix header and the to proofread headers are swapped on dark mode. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:34, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: There where some muck-ups in the templates between the statuses (essentially, the classes were swapped and so the colors were swapped again to make it right). Caused some confusion when adding dark mode compat. Should be solved. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::Sorry for the mess up and thanks for the fix by the way! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Thinking REALLY big.. ==

Back in 2020, Fae mirrored PDF's of copyright records on IA to Commons.

Is there a contributor here that is willing to set up Index: here for post 1950's volumes?  

The thought was that it might be a way of finding works that might expire in the next few years, and if the renewals were looked into 
post 1930(rolling) volumes that might also be in scope for the period 1940 to 1950.  Other publications note a Fourth Series which continued to 1982(?) but those entries should already be in the online system. 

&quot;Mars-shot&quot; project, but worth it, if the transcription generated can be fed back into Wikidata as well.  This wouldn't be a project I'd focus on personally, my watchlist is already at 'life's work' length, but I felt this was something to be worked out. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Get IIIF working again. ==
Previously, inductiveload had a script ([[User:Inductiveload/jump_to_file]]) which helped improve the scans presented, by pulling them directly from hathi or IA, rather than  using the lower quality PDF present on Wikisource. 

Due to changes at IA ( URL in the script needs updating), this script stopped functioning.  Can someone PLEASE look into getting this working again, as it greatly assists in the transcription of works, where the PDF quality is exceptionally poor due to over compression or otherwise?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:04, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: As I already told you, the issue is with a line that has to be changed in the toolforge tool's code. See [[phab:T356227|T356227]]. This requires usurpation of the tool (given IL is gone at least for now); which is not easy to get. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:30, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: Thank you. So what could be a useful project is effectively stalled, because of 3 letters in old code, which can't be easily updated because the tool maintainer is absent. {{ping|Sohom Datta}} Another contributor attempted to fix this by patching the url on the Wikisource, but I couldn't get that technique to work.  The endpoint that the toolforge script uses now gives Error 500 suggesting it wasn't a priority to repair or was migrated.)..  As detailed in the phabricator ticket it's 4 characters in a single file that need changing.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:58, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: The project I refer to is above. a Marshsot project on the Catalog of Copyright Entries. (Yes I has strait jacket to hand! :lol:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:39, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

When 5 years after a massive upload, you find it isn't in a good quality:(.. 

I'm going to need some time to consider if I even attempt to work with this, and I am wondering if it's worth it, unless the PDF quality issue is resolved. Others here are working on making the hi-resimage loader work again, provided of course the endpoint it uses remains available. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 17:12, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-24 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product|Trust and Safety Product team]] is finalizing work needed to roll out [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|temporary accounts]] on large Wikipedias later this month. The team has worked with stewards and other users with extended rights to predict and address many use cases that may arise on larger wikis, so that community members can continue to effectively moderate and patrol temporary accounts. This will be the second of three phases of deployment – the last one will take place in September at the earliest. For more information about the recent developments on the project, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts/Updates|see this update]]. If you have any comments or questions, write on the [[mw:Talk:Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|talk page]], and [[m:Event:CEE Catch up Nr. 10 (June 2025)|join a CEE Catch Up]] this Tuesday.

'''Updates for editors'''
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]] The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Watchlist expiry|watchlist expiry]] feature allows editors to watch pages for a limited period of time. After that period, the page is automatically removed from your watchlist. Starting this week, you can set a preference for the default period of time to watch pages. The [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist-pageswatchlist|preferences]] also allow you to set different default watch periods for editing existing pages, pages you create, and when using rollback. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T265716]
[[File:Talk pages default look (April 2023).jpg|thumb|alt=Screenshot of the visual improvements made on talk pages|Example of a talk page with the new design, in French.]]
* The appearance of talk pages will change at almost all Wikipedias ([[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/19|some]] have already received this design change, [[phab:T379264|a few]] will get these changes later). You can read details about the changes [[diffblog:2024/05/02/making-talk-pages-better-for-everyone/|on ''Diff'']]. It is possible to opt out of these changes [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion|in user preferences]] (&quot;{{int:discussiontools-preference-visualenhancements}}&quot;). [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T319146][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T392121]
* Users with specific extended rights (including administrators, bureaucrats, checkusers, oversighters, and stewards) can now have IP addresses of all temporary accounts [[phab:T358853|revealed automatically]] during time-limited periods where they need to combat high-speed account-hopping vandalism. This feature was requested by stewards. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T386492]
* This week, the Moderator Tools and Machine Learning teams will continue the rollout of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], releasing it to several more Wikipedias. This filter utilizes the Revert Risk model, which was created by the Research team, to highlight edits that are likely to be reverted and help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic contributions. The feature will be rolled out to the following Wikipedias: {{int:project-localized-name-afwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bnwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-cywiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-hawwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-iswiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-kkwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-simplewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-trwiki/en}}. The rollout will continue in the coming weeks to include [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|the rest of the Wikipedias in this project]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T391964]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* AbuseFilter editors active on Meta-Wiki and large Wikipedias are kindly asked to update AbuseFilter to make it compatible with temporary accounts. A link to the instructions and the private lists of filters needing verification are [[phab:T369611|available on Phabricator]].
* Lua modules now have access to the name of a page's associated thumbnail image, and on [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/operations/mediawiki-config/+/2e4ab14aa15bb95568f9c07dd777065901eb2126/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php#10849 some wikis] to the WikiProject assessment information. This is possible using two new properties on [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#added-by-extensions|mw.title objects]], named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageImage&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageAssessments&lt;/code&gt;. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T131911][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T380122]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.5|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 01:16, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28846858 --&gt;
:NOTE: The default watchlist expiry time feature isn't available on here and it isn't available on enwiki or commons either. It ''is'' available on mediawikiwiki though, and I'm not sure why. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: See [[wikitech:Deployment train#Groups]]. In a nutshell: mediawiki updates are progressively rolled out in groups; we're in group 2, so we get them on wednesdays; as opposed to mediawikiwiki being in group 1 (tuesday) and enwiki being in group 3 (thursday). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you for explaining! [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 16:55, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family (archive.org)]] ==

This states that the source was ftp://ia340915.us.archive.org/1/items/LovecraftInPdfFormat/a_jermyn.pdf - trying that link did not work for me, and trying to find this item on Internet Archive gave me nothing. Anyone have any ideas where this source might be ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: That link uses the FTP protocol. Switching to http or https gives a 500 error.
: It also is a link to the direct file as opposed to the IA item.
: However, I can't find any item with such a name either.
: Possibly it was pulled out of IA's collections, but that would seem strange (pre-1930 publication). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. Wikipedia indicates that the story was only published under that title in 1986, so I assume that it was taken from a later collection. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:20, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Ah, that would explain IA pulling it out of their collections. In the last few months they've pulled out a lot of stuff which was plausibly PD (probably afraid of getting sued to death). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:25, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::::And, of course, shows a danger in not uploading the scan to Commons or here.
::::We now have a scan-backed copy of the story from the original Weird Tales printing, and a Weird Tales reprint available for transcription. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Bayonne Times need a link to Wikidata ==

Can someone link The Bayonne Times here at Wikisource to Wikidata Q118610753. Usually a bot does this, so if you see an error, let me know what I did wrong. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 14:58, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}}. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 15:11, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: (Heads up - the bot runs weekly, on saturday evenings UTC. So for this page, which was linked yesterday on the 9th, it would have done it next sat (the 14th).) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== How to improve this table ==

Hi, I made a table at [[Page:A History Of Mathematical Notations Vol I (1928).djvu/35]]. Whilst it works, it probably is quite a bodge solution and probably isn't compatible with mobile. Could anyone give some ideas as to how to improve it? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 17:48, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Matrix|Matrix]] I am not sure if all tables can be made safe for mobile, so I am not sure exactly what to recommend. If you concern is having a table altogether, you could try individual lines of text, with [[:Template:Phantom]] to align the individual terms (alignment would not be preserved on all screens, but it would stop the font size shrinking when viewed in small windows, as presently). Also, very minor, but why call &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Right|}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; on cell contents, when you can apply &lt;nowiki&gt;{{ts|ar}}|&lt;/nowiki&gt;? Maybe it is identical, but it just seemed a little odd. P.S. There is also a quotation mark missing on the last 8 on the page, but I am not sure what the 8 is/isn't supposed to be aligned with (the 1/7th, and the 5,2,1 look like they are in slightly different columns). Up to you where you place it. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Template:Id ==

I have no idea why this template is the ''number one'' spot on [[Special:WantedTemplates]] (all such links are in the Page namespace). My guess is that it is somehow being transcluded by means of a different, broken template. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:12, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:It appears to be something to do with {{tl|float left}} after ShakespeareFan00's last fiddle. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: Due to a typo in [[Special:PermaLink/15019930]], {{tl|float left}} briefly called {{tl|id}} instead of using {{code|{{{id}}}}}. By the time it was corrected, it got the time to spread out it these 3k-ish pages. Discussed this with them back in April; we were hoping that MW would realise and purge pagelinks. Manifestly not. I'd say ignore it? Except if someone fells like going on a null-editing spree again. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:54, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Update: either it was the waiting, or the purging the template, or someone purging all the pages *shrug*, but now the links to {{tl|id}} have disappeared from whatlinkshere. I think [[Special:Wantedtemplates]] will reflect that in a few days' time. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Jersey Journal disconnected from Wikidata ==

You can just restore the deletion at Q7743126. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 20:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{done}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 13:28, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4b0sag9fmctlb5figz15462l78epr9d</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132221</id>
      <parentid>15132220</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:00:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* The Cabin at the Trail's End */ new section</comment>
      <origin>15132221</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="110802" sha1="tawhn3twp8tbvj9cyamuu624f8x6dpg" xml:space="preserve">{{process header
 | title    = Scriptorium 
 | section  =
 | previous = [[Wikisource:Index/Community|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives|Archives]]
 | shortcut = [[WS:S]]&lt;br/&gt;[[WS:SCRIPTORIUM]]
 | notes    = The '''[[wikt:scriptorium|Scriptorium]]''' is Wikisource's community discussion page. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[{{fullurl:Wikisource:Scriptorium|action=edit&amp;section=new start}} a new one]&lt;/span&gt;; please see '''[[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]'''.

The [[Wikisource:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' noticeboard]] can be used where appropriate. Some announcements and newsletters are subscribed to [[/Announcements/]].

Project members can often be found in the [[liberachat:wikisource|#wikisource]] IRC channel [https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat?channel=#wikisource webclient]. For discussion related to the entire project (not just the English chapter), please discuss at the [[:mul:Scriptorium|multilingual Wikisource]]. There are currently {{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}} [[Special:ActiveUsers|active users]] here.
{{/Navigation}}
}}
{{autoarchive resolved section
 | age            = 3
 | archive        = ((FULLPAGENAME))/Archives/((year))-((month:##))
 | level          = 2
 | show           = no
 | timecompare    = &lt;!--allowing for archiving without resolved--&gt;
 | timeout        = 30
}}
[[Category:Bots/Archival|Scriptorium ]]
[[Category:Wikisource|Scriptorium]]
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
&lt;!-- Interwiki links --&gt;
[[mul:Scriptorium]]
&lt;!-- Interwiki links --&gt;

= Announcements =

= Proposals =
== Overriding Vector 2022 paragraph spacing ==
Since the forced deployment in November 2024, and multiple discussions including [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-01#Paragraph_spacing], [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding V22 paragraph spacing|2]], [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Switching to the Vector 2022 skin: the final date|3]], and [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Deployment of Vector 2022|4]], the idea of overriding the excessive paragraph spacing from V22 was floated multiple times. V22 raised the 0.9em spacing between paragraphs to 1.5em, which broke content that expected text to have similar size across skins (notably but not only {{tl|overfloat image}}).

This proposal is therefore to add to [[MediaWiki:Gadget-Site.css]]:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.mw-body p {
    margin:0.4em 0 0.5em 0;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Technical notes:
* this should have neither false positives nor false negatives given that &lt;code&gt;.mw-body p&lt;/code&gt; is the exact same selector used by V22.
* if site.css is loaded before the skin css, then we can just add a &lt;code&gt;html &lt;/code&gt; at the start of the selector: will not change the selection (given everything's in an html), and will give it more specificity (0,1,2 vs 0,1,1).
* 0.4em 0 0.5em 0 is exactly how it was in V10.
* this may stop working one day whenever WMF decides to IDHT another change through; but so can the entire website, and at least we'll have a fix. If it stops working, we can easily remove it and go back to our current state of having broken content.
— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} as proposer. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}}, strongly. Thanks for starting the vote! --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:51, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:58, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:09, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

= Bot approval requests =
* See [[Wikisource:Bots]]  for information about applying for a bot status
* See [[Wikisource:Bot requests]] if you require an existing bot to undertake a task

==[[User:333Bot]]==
(See also [[#Thinking of an anti-linkrot bot]].)

For non-scan backed works, sometimes the original webpage disappears and we lose the source. This task would archive automatically sources in new mainspace/talk pages at the wayback machine, and add {{tl|wml}}.

To avoid archiving vandalism, it would only do this on pages older than a week. (It won't search beyond the 2000th created page.)

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. Source's at [[User:Alien333/test#Link archiving]].

The idea would be to run this daily. Test edits: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14252&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001840] and [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14251&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001919]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:59, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
: As nearly two weeks have passed without objections, I activated this task per [[WS:BOT]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:59, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The run is over. Before launching the cronjob I will change the code to prevent it from archiving links in mainspace works' content (there are few valid reasons for extlinks in works; but there are some). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:48, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Did that, started cronjob. Will run at 16h14 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Note: For the last few days, it was stopped by an IA error on a certain page. I have now made it not crash on IA errors. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:03, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

==[[User:333Bot]] 2==
(See also [[#Seeking feedback on bot task to tag untagged deletion nominations]] for details and discussion.)

Works proposed for deletion at [[WS:PD]] or &lt;s&gt;[[WS:PD]]&lt;/s&gt;&lt;ins&gt;[[WS:CV]]&lt;/ins&gt; should be accordingly tagged. Occasionally, people forget to tag them. This task would locate these and tag them.

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. The code's at [[User:Alien333/test#Nomination_tagging]]. It would run daily. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:WS:PD or WS:PD ? Aren't they the same ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:24, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, you're right. Got mixed up. Meant PD and CV. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Heads up: I started the cronjob. (No untagged nominations rn, so may do no edits.) Runs will occur at about 5h40 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:27, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

=Repairs (and moves)=

'''Designated for requests related to the repair of works (and scans of works) presented on Wikisource'''

See also [[Wikisource:Scan lab]]

== Explanatory Notes Indices ==
Please move the following indices to their new corresponding filename
* [[Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
[[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:42, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: Errr. Feel free to trout me, but I don't understand what you're asking for.
: As in, move which pages to which titles? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::* Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-16 qp).pdf
::* Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 (UKPGA 2003-31 qp).pdf
::* Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Defamation Act 2013 (UKPGA 2013-26 qp).pdf
::* Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Modern Slavery Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-30 qp).pdf
::* Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Live Music Act 2012 (UKPGA 2012-2 qp).pdf
::* Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 (UKPGA 2011-14 qp).pdf
::This is to match filename move at commons. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:29, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

= Other discussions =
== [[Contra-Props]] ==

This article was published in a British magazine in 1941; the author died in 1946. Would this be still in copyright ? Or PD ?

(This was the subject of a previous query here which got archived without being answered - [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2019-09#1941_UK_publication]]) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:51, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
: Looks copyrighted to me. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:31, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
: Unless there's some reason they count as a US work, all UK works were restored by the URAA. The few exceptions are either Crown Copyright or were published by authors who died before 1926.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:26, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - I have put it as apparant copyright violation - [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions#Contra-Props]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That page has now been deleted so this query can be closed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:48, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Manual indexing of news articles versus Automatic indexing of news articles ==

I want to convert [[Brooklyn Eagle]] to an automatic-index instead of the hand-curated index. The hand curated index looks pretty, but is always missing articles. We can have [[The Brooklyn Eagle]] as the pretty one. See how it is done at [[Jersey Journal]], scroll to the bottom and there is a link to the pretty hand-curated list, missing many articles. This is similar to how Commons does it, you have automatic index at Category:Foo, and hand curated one as Foo, that is always missing entries. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 17:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:More automated curation of Periodicals and Newspapers on this site in the future would in general be a good thing - there's a lot of good work being done across a lot of these works but the process of creating the main-space pages for them can get very tedious and repetitive. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose had to write janky programs to semi-automate their individual workflows for some of these works.
:Your idea of a distinction between '''The Somewhere Argus''' and '''Somewhere Argus''' is interesting (and as I'm not a big user of wikimedia, not something I've particularly noticed on that site), but it doesn't seem particularly intuitive to me that one should be a raw list and another a curated view (or which way round those should be, and it seems quite a big departure from how work is generally presented here. Is it done anywhere else on this site? In the past I've seen a lot of resistance to the same work being included in different main-space pages. 
:In terms of a curated view, that may be better done by creating a Portal for that work. For example, when I worked through the July-Dec 1914 volumes of [[Punch]], I created a summary of all of the books reviewed in that volume which I put here: [[Portal:Punch/Reviewed Books]], that wouldn't really have been appropriate to put in the main page. 
:Alternatively, what's stopping you from having a list of highlights and the automatic index linked from the same page? That's effectively what [[The New York Times]] does - some of the issues are highlighted (those for which enough work has been done for them to have a complete contents page) but for the rest, there are year-based automatic lists using the {{tl|header periodical}} template. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 09:56, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
:* You are right, &quot;Portal:Brooklyn Eagle&quot; would be best for the hand curated ones, we should standardize on that, and migrate older ones to that format. Currently there are six styles of indexes for magazines and newspapers. There were at least ten different styles before I tried to standardized them. I eliminated the ones that were experimental one-of-a-kind ones. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 19:25, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Don't we already have a standard format, as documented at [[Wikisource:Periodical guidelines]] ? —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:24, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:By the way, I fixed [[Jersey Journal]]. There shouldn't be two separate mainspace pages for the same work, so I deleted the one that was simply a dump of subpages, and replaced it with the properly structured list that was previously located at [[The Jersey Journal]].
:In general, the automatic subpage listing should only be used as a temporary stop-gap until a proper page listing can be created. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:31, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::To your original point though - if you can find a way to automatically list all subpages, whether or not they have already been created, and in the correct order they appear in the publication, then that would be amazing and definitely we'd all make extensive use of such a system. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:14, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
Automate portals, have them point to Main.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:50, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

==QuickSurveys==
Apparently some new “feature” has been forced upon us again. These are annoying pop-up boxes which really mess up the formatting, especially if whatever text at the top of the page is centered (as it often is). Can this be disabled by default for everyone? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:32, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Dropped a task ([[phab:T393436]]) to ask them to not barge into the content like this, but I don't have much hope.
: And no, this extension and its parameters are a wmf thing, so we can't really do anything on our own. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:I have no clue what you're talking about. Can you tell me the steps to reproduce this issue? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:49, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::I can see it on any page that I open (and it is very disturbing), so if you do not, you might have it disabled in your preferences. See also the screenshots uploaded to the above linked phabricator task. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I don't. I'm trying to figure out which settings the original person has to see why he sees it, but if you're seeing it also, that is odd to me. I'm not sure why anyone is seeing this. I'm not. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 12:19, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::In the preferences under the &quot;User profile&quot; tab there is a section &quot;QuickSurvey extension&quot; where the surveys can be set as hidden. Currently logged out users also do not see it, but if this feature stays, we can imo expect it will be used to display messages (e.g. pleas for funding) to them as well. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: These things are highly targetable and targeted, see [[mw:Extension:QuickSurveys]]. Probably you aren't counted as an active patroller here (and this precise survey is about patrolling tools). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:57, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just an example of what I am seeing: [https://phab.wmfusercontent.org/file/data/wvrcadows4ftokyz3lyg/PHID-FILE-udsgsisdj2hq2uuva46d/screenshot3jpg.jpg] --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:06, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
*Another awful example: [[Charter Granted by Queen Elizabeth to the East India Company]]. This time, the pop-up is within the delete template. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:59, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*: Well, it just barges into the first thing it finds. They don't appear to be actively paying attention to tasks, and I don't expect them to pay attention to user feedback either, so this probably won't be fixed for a good while. My two cents are go disable it in your settings.
*: At least we've got the comfort most users don't see it.... But of course they make whatever surveys they want targeting whoever they want, so it's not that unlikely that this will become a problem for everyone in the near future.
*: Aaaahh, deploying breaking changes with no discussion, no warning, no community opt-out, and without listening to feedback. Becoming a habit, isn't it? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:43, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::It's showing up for me too.  Once I disable it on one project, then I get it on another.  Those of us who regularly visit multiple projects are going to be the most annoyed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:50, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::: Did you check the global settings? Perhaps there you can opt-out for all projects. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::I don't even have the option of using the same skin globally. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:28, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::: That's weird. So like, when you go [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-rendering-skin here], you don't see a &quot;Skin&quot;, a checkbox on whether to make it a default setting, and radio buttons with the options? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:20, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Might I suggest the following solution? : &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#bodyContent .ext-quick-survey-panel {display:none;}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 00:57, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::There's a setting to always hide them; the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole (except through site css, but Xover is the only active intadmin and has shown much reticence to adding that kind of stuff (see [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding_V22_paragraph_spacing]])). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:18, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: If that is an issue, we can simply come to a consensus, as a community, that the QS system needs to be blocked, and direct him to make the appropriate changes reflecting that consensus. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 12:35, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:Yes, the reticence of one admin should not override community consensus, and Xover knows that as well as the rest of us :) (that being said, I think a proper proposal would be necessary to determine consensus for something like this) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:13, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::Is amending the user profile, as stated by Jan above, not a good enough solution ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:11, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::: From the technical standpoint, yes, changing site CSS is 99% sure to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:::As Alien333 said, the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole - and you can't do that with the user profile. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:00, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Second pair of eyes for unclear letter ==

At [[Page:Poems Hornblower.djvu/110]], the last letter of {{tqi|Draw with their very breath—the poisonous faith}} is not super clear. I think I see the beginning of the arch of an h going right from the vertical bar after the t, but I'd appreciate if someone could give a quick look and confirm or not. (Compare also the {{tqi|faith}} from {{tqi|The world's cold faith,}} a few lines above.) Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:51, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:I think your assessment is good.  &quot;poisonous faith&quot; works with &quot;inglorious views&quot; and the soul straying from a &quot;diviner walk&quot;.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 21:02, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
::I agree; scans of different copies of the same book show the same misprinting ([https://books.google.com/books?id=ox1kAAAAcAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 BL], [https://books.google.com/books?id=fCQOAAAAQAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 Bod]), but the start of the arch of the 'h' is just visible in all. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:40, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to both. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:16, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== FYI: Wikisource: Preserving the Past for the Future ==

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2025/05/13/wikisource-preserving-the-past-for-the-future/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
*Who is Nanteza Divine Gabriella? I don’t recognize the name. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:11, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:* [[User:DivineGaby]] [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:53, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

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== Billingual template with Welsh Parliament Acts ==

The formatting problems that @[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] complained about in [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] could be fixed by using the {{tl|Bilingual}} template, however this creates its own formatting problems which I have shown at [[Wikisource:Sandbox]]. Additionally, the page numbers don't match up because the page numbers go up every second page due to the welsh version of a page using the same page number as the corresponding english version. Does anyone know how to fix this. 

Additionally, could someone make a version of the Bilingual template that could be more useful for longer works such as [[Index:Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2023 (ASC 2023-3 kp).pdf]] so whoever ends up working on that doesn't have to use the template over 200 times in one page. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:33, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:Not sure about the code for this, but would it be possible to transclude multiple pages at once like [[Template:Side by side]] using the &lt;code&gt;&lt;pages&gt;&lt;/code&gt; syntax, but reset the display each page so that the first lines of each page line up? I'm sure there's some struggle with that preserving the indents using colons like appears when using [[Template:Bilingual]]... [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 21:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
::The current practice for bitexts like this, is to transclude the English here, and the alternate pages at the Wikisource for the other language.  The two can then be linked to each other in the notes section of the header.  There are some exceptions here, and you can see an example at [[Modern Czech Poetry/October sonnet]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The Welsh elements of [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] have been moved over to Welsh Wikisource, and the pages have been linked in Wikidata and mentioned in the notes section! [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:29, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[:File:Weird Tales Volume 13 Number 06 (1929-06).djvu]] ==

This was originally uploaded to Commons with pages that were still in copyright redacted. Those are now out of copyright. What is the best way to restore them ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:19, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:Upload a new version of the file over the top of what's there. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:52, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
: That's assuming that placeholders were left. If not, then we need to first shift the Page:s to give room for the added pages. I can do that; ping me if it's needed. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:15, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you both. Yes, on this one, there are blank pages where the text was redacted, so taht should work fine. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:03, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== HathiTrust ==

[[Help:Image extraction#HathiTrust]] no longer works me; when I try running it, I just get Error 403.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 08:27, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I haven't tried any programs myself, but there are a few image downloader programs for HathiTrust available on GitHub, [https://github.com/Addono/HathiTrust-downloader this one for example]. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of HathiTrust can vouch for a particular method. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:22, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Linking to Explanatory Notes for UK Legislation ==

@[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] @[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] I've seen 3 different ways of linking to Explanatory Notes currently seen at [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]], [[Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011]], and [[Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015]] and I feel like we should have some consistency with how we link to Explanatory Notes. How should we go about linking to Explanatory Notes. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:25, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I did Welsh as I did because the King's Printer version included a formal title page including the mention of the explanatory notes. With Fixed Term Parliaments, it doesn't have that page, so the inclusion of the note makes sense. We could add that to ones that do have the title page. I personally don't know if using the &quot;next&quot; parameter like in Specialist Printing is best, because it prevents us from using that parameter to link to the next act that year, if that's something we wanted to do. I know it's done in some other countries that have full years of acts transcluded. Similar issue in Fixed Term Parliaments using &quot;next&quot; for the Schedules.&lt;br&gt;
:I think best is to link things mentioned within the title/TOC like in [[Scotland Act 1998]], including Explanatory Notes if there, and then we can mention Explanatory Notes in the &quot;notes&quot; of the header, and leave &quot;previous&quot; and &quot;next&quot; for linking to surrounding acts. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:48, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== Page marked historical ==

Heads up that I tagged [[Wikisource:Purchases]] with {{tl|historical}} since it hasn't actually been in use in several years. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:48, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: This project page is interesting and was unknown to me until just now. It is very similar to an idea that [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] and I have discussed recently, which would involve creating a centralized page in the Project namespace for requests for scans to be made where no scans appear to be accessible online (which would replace [[User:TE(æ)A,ea./Requests]] in their personal user space). My suggested name was either [[WS:Requests for scans]], or making that a section of the [[WS:Scan Lab]]. FYI, because of the inter-library loan (ILL) system, very few books would actually need to be ''bought'' in order to be scanned anymore (as far as I understand it), but buying should definitely be an option for those who are willing to donate the material, in cases where ILL is not possible. All in all, the Purchases page has merit conceptually, but in its current implementation inserting {{tl|historical}} was the right move. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:00, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

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'''Updates for editors'''

* From May 20, 2025, [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Oversight policy|oversighters]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Meta:CheckUsers|checkusers]] will need to have their accounts secured with two-factor authentication (2FA) to be able to use their advanced rights. All users who belong to these two groups and do not have 2FA enabled have been informed. In the future, this requirement may be extended to other users with advanced rights. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Mandatory two-factor authentication for users with some extended rights|Learn more]].
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]]  [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|Multiblocks]] will begin mass deployment by the end of the month: all non-Wikipedia projects plus Catalan Wikipedia will adopt Multiblocks in the week of May 26, while all other Wikipedias will adopt it in the week of June 2. Please [[m:Talk:Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|contact the team]] if you have concerns. Administrators can test the new user interface now on your own wiki by browsing to [{{fullurl:Special:Block|usecodex=1}} {{#special:Block}}?usecodex=1], and can test the full multiblocks functionality [[testwiki:Special:Block|on testwiki]]. Multiblocks is the feature that makes it possible for administrators to impose different types of blocks on the same user at the same time. See the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|help page]] for more information. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* Later this week, the [[{{#special:SpecialPages}}]] listing of almost all special pages will be updated with a new design. This page has been [[phab:T219543|redesigned]] to improve the user experience in a few ways, including: The ability to search for names and aliases of the special pages, sorting, more visible marking of restricted special pages, and a more mobile-friendly look. The new version can be [https://meta.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:SpecialPages previewed] at Beta Cluster now, and feedback shared in the task. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219543]
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is being enabled on more wikis. For a detailed list of when the extension will be enabled on your wiki, please read the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart/Project#Deployment Timeline|deployment timeline]].
* [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Main Page|Wikifunctions]] will be deployed on May 27 on five Wiktionaries: [[wikt:ha:|Hausa]], [[wikt:ig:|Igbo]], [[wikt:bn:|Bengali]], [[wikt:ml:|Malayalam]], and [[wikt:dv:|Dhivehi/Maldivian]]. This is the second batch of deployment planned for the project. After deployment, the projects will be able to call [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Introduction|functions from Wikifunctions]] and integrate them in their pages. A function is something that takes one or more inputs and transforms them into a desired output, such as adding up two numbers, converting miles into metres, calculating how much time has passed since an event, or declining a word into a case. Wikifunctions will allow users to do that through a simple call of [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Catalogue|a stable and global function]], rather than via a local template.
* Later this week, the Wikimedia Foundation will publish a hub for [[diffblog:2024/07/09/on-the-value-of-experimentation/|experiments]]. This is to showcase and get user feedback on product experiments. The experiments help the Wikimedia movement [[diffblog:2023/07/13/exploring-paths-for-the-future-of-free-knowledge-new-wikipedia-chatgpt-plugin-leveraging-rich-media-social-apps-and-other-experiments/|understand new users]], how they interact with the internet and how it could affect the Wikimedia movement. Some examples are [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Generated Video|generated video]], the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Roblox game|Wikipedia Roblox speedrun game]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Discord bot|the Discord bot]].
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:29}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:29|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, there was a bug with creating an account using the API, which has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T390751]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Gadgets and user scripts that interact with [[{{#special:Block}}]] may need to be updated to work with the new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|manage blocks interface]]. Please review the [[mw:Help:Manage blocks/Developers|developer guide]] for more information. If you need help or are unable to adapt your script to the new interface, please let the team know on the [[mw:Help talk:Manage blocks/Developers|talk page]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.title&lt;/code&gt; object allows you to get information about a specific wiki page in the [[w:en:Wikipedia:Lua|Lua]] programming language. Starting this week, a new property will be added to the object, named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;isDisambiguationPage&lt;/code&gt;. This property allows you to check if a page is a disambiguation page, without the need to write a custom function. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T71441]
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|15px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] User script developers can use a [[toolforge:gitlab-content|new reverse proxy tool]] to load javascript and css from [[gitlab:|gitlab.wikimedia.org]] with &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.loader.load&lt;/code&gt;. The tool's author hopes this will enable collaborative development workflows for user scripts including linting, unit tests, code generation, and code review on &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;gitlab.wikimedia.org&lt;/bdi&gt; without a separate copy-and-paste step to publish scripts to a Wikimedia wiki for integration and acceptance testing. See [[wikitech:Tool:Gitlab-content|Tool:Gitlab-content on Wikitech]] for more information.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.2|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* The 12th edition of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wiki Workshop 2025|Wiki Workshop 2025]], a forum that brings together researchers that explore all aspects of Wikimedia projects, will be held virtually on 21-22 May. Researchers can [https://pretix.eu/wikimedia/wikiworkshop2025/ register now].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 23:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
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== RfC ongoing regarding Abstract Wikipedia (and your project) ==

&lt;div lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;
''(Apologies for posting in English, if this is not your first language)''

Hello all! We opened a discussion on Meta about a very delicate issue for the development of [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]]: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. Since some of the hypothesis involve your project, we wanted to hear your thoughts too. 

We want to make the decision process clear: we do not yet know which option we want to use, which is why we are consulting here. We will take the arguments from the Wikimedia communities into account, and we want to consult with the different communities and hear arguments that will help us with the decision. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

You can read the various hypothesis and have your say at [[:m:Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]]. Thank you in advance! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|&lt;span class=&quot;signature-talk&quot;&gt;{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}&lt;/span&gt;]]) 15:27, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Weird Tales file and index with incorrect name ==

[[Index:Weird Tales Volume 02 Number 2 (1937-02).djvu]] should say Volume 29. Do you think I should ask for the file on Commons to be moved, and then to have the index and pages here moved ? Or just leave it as it is ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:15, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
: Given some of it is already transcluded, and that the index is not exposed to the end reader, I'd say leaving a comment like {{tqi|(typo in file name)}} in the index title field would be enough of a clarification. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 04:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - thanks. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:39, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== Official Launch of The Million Wiki Project ==

We are thrilled to announce the official launch of [[m:The_Million_Wiki_Project|The Million Wiki Project!]]
[[File:Million Wiki Logo - Colored.svg|200px|right]]
Our mission is to enrich Wikimedia projects with high-quality and diverse content related to the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region. This initiative focuses on creating new articles, multimedia, structured data, and more, covering topics from MENA countries, communities, and diaspora worldwide.

'''Who Can Participate?'''&lt;br&gt;
All registered Wikimedians are welcome to join! Whether you're an individual contributor or part of an organization, your support is valuable. We encourage content creation in any of the six official UN languages (Arabic, English, French, Russian, Spanish, and soon Chinese).

'''What Kind of Content Are We Looking For?'''

* New Wikipedia articles focused on MENA topics
* Multimedia contributions on Wikimedia Commons (photos, videos)
* Structured data for Wikidata
* Language entries on Wiktionary
* Public domain texts on Wikisource

Note: Make sure your content follows local Wikimedia guidelines and licensing policies, including Freedom of Panorama for media files.

Join us in bridging content gaps and showcasing the richness of the MENA region on Wikimedia platforms! &lt;br&gt;
Stay tuned for more updates and participation guidelines. [[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 09:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== New texts list ==

Does a work count as &quot;complete&quot; for the purposes of the new texts list if the book has an index which has not been transcribed nor transcluded ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:56, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
: No. There have been multiple discussions, notably at [[Template talk:New texts]], where a consensus emerged that a work must be proofread and transcluded (but that there was not a need for validation). If you find an unproofread/untranscluded work, you can remove it.
: Sometimes sub-works that are works in their own right without the others (such a play in a collection of plays) also get listed on new text; for such works, it looks like the pratice is to only require that their part of the index be proofread and transcluded. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Radio Times ==

Please join the discussion at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:35, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Beginner's guide to copyright missing a key issue ==

Please could someone add a bullet point to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] about what happens regarding the hosting of scans of works which are considered out-of-copyright by this Wikisource, but not by Wikimedia Commons (for example, where they are still in copyright in Europe, but not the US)? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:30, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

:That's not a copyright concern, but a compatibility concern, so it's covered at [[Help:Licensing compatibility]], which is linked from the bottom of the page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:55, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::It is a copyright concern, and is not about licensing.
::The page to which I referred is styled as a guide for ''Beginners'', and is where a beginner would reasonably look for such information. The page already discusses how other Wikimedia projects choose to respect non-United States copyright law, in contrast to this project, so the additional point under discussion is relevant there.
::Furthermore, the subject is not covered at Help:Licensing compatibility, which includes only one mention of Wikimedia Commons; and that in a section which does not touch on the issue I mention, but is in a section about discussions of the prohibition of &quot;no derivative&quot; clauses. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The &quot;Beginner's guide to copyright&quot; is about copyright itself.  Where our files are stored is not an issue of copyright law.  The Licensing compatibility covers which items are allowed to be hosted here, which ''is'' affected by copyright status, but copyright is ''not'' the only concern, there are other licensing issues that affect what can be hosted here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:37, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Whether a file is stored locally rather than on Commons if often decided ''solely'' on it's copyright status, which is in turn wholly a factor of copyright law.
::::Again: the licensing compatability page does not mention this issue ''at all''.
::::Again: this is not a matter of ''licensing''. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So then, you're looking for [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]]?  Again, where to upload a file may be ''affected'' by the copyright status of the work, but it's not a part of copyright law. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:26, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, I am not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:31, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::This is the page that says: &quot;Usually, the DjVu or PDF file should be uploaded directly to Wikimedia Commons (one of Wikisource's sister sites that holds images and files for general use).  However, Commons chooses to respect the copyright laws of the home country of any work, which Wikisource does not.  In cases where non-United States publications are in the public domain in the United States but not in their home countries, they should be uploaded directly to Wikisource instead.  This method is the same as the method to upload and add images.&quot;  Is that not what you are asking about? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:38, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::No. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:43, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Can you please clarify then? Because this looks to me to be exactly what you were asking about at the start of this thread. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

=== Clarity of Help page ===
User:Pigsonthewing has made [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3ABeginner%27s_guide_to_copyright&amp;oldid=prev&amp;diff=15092053 this change] to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]], with the comment &quot;This is not tangent; it relates directly to the page's pre-existing point about projects &quot;choose to respect non-United States copyright law. English Wikisource does not&quot; and hinges directly on the copyright status of works concerned&quot;

My concern is that this inserts a second tangential issue into a set of paragraphs explaining copyright law.

The text looks like this with the added text in '''bold''':

{{blockquote|
; Non-United States publications
The rules about non-United States publications can get complicated.

Some works may be in the public domain in the United States even if they are still under copyright in their home countries '''(these works should be uploaded directly to Wikisource, not Wikimedia Commons)'''. Other works may be in the public domain in their home countries but still under copyright in the United States '''(these works are not eligible for inclusion on this Wikisource'''.

For example, the last collection of Sherlock Holmes stories, ''[[The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes]]'', was published in 1927
}}

The text is concerned with the copyright status of works, not with the uploading of files.  The added text is concerned with the uploading of files, which is discussed on the page [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]], which has a section devoted to the uploading of source files.

I believe the additions to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] are intrusive, because they insert a second topic into a paragraph that is already about a complicated topic.  I also believe they are superfluous, because we already have a Beginner's guide page that explains where to upload files. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:03, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-22 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* A community-wide discussion about a very delicate issue for the development of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]] is now open on Meta: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. The discussion is open until June 12 at [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]], and every opinion is welcomed. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

'''Updates for editors'''
* Since last week, on all wikis except [[phab:T388604|the largest 20]], people using the mobile visual editor will have [[phab:T385851|additional tools in the menu bar]], accessed using the new &lt;code&gt;+&lt;/code&gt; toolbar button. To start, the new menu will include options to add: citations, hieroglyphs, and code blocks. Deployment to the remaining wikis is [[phab:T388605|scheduled]] to happen in June.
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexist|#ifexist]]&lt;/code&gt; parser function will no longer register a link to its target page. This will improve the usefulness of [[{{#special:WantedPages}}]], which will eventually only list pages that are the target of an actual red link. This change will happen gradually as the source pages are updated. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T14019]
* This week, the Moderator Tools team will launch [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], starting at Indonesian Wikipedia. This new filter highlights edits that are likely to be reverted. The goal is to help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic edits. Other wikis will benefit from this filter in the future.
* Upon clicking an empty search bar, logged-out users will see suggestions of articles for further reading. The feature will be available on both desktop and mobile. Readers of Catalan, Hebrew, and Italian Wikipedias and some sister projects will receive the change between May 21 and mid-June. Readers of other wikis will receive the change later. The goal is to encourage users to read the wikis more. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Reading/Web/Content Discovery Experiments/Search Suggestions|Learn more]].
* Some users of the Wikipedia Android app can use a new feature for readers, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Apps/Team/Android/TrivaGame|WikiGames]], a daily trivia game based on real historical events. The release has started as an A/B test, available to 50% of users in the following languages: English, French, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, and Turkish.
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Newsletter|Newsletter extension]] that is available on MediaWiki.org allows the creation of [[mw:Special:Newsletters|various newsletters]] for global users. The extension can now publish new issues as section links on an existing page, instead of requiring a new page for each issue. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T393844]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:32}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:32|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* The previously deprecated &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Ipblocks table|ipblocks]]&lt;/code&gt; views in [[wikitech:Help:Wiki Replicas|Wiki Replicas]] will be removed in the beginning of June. Users are encouraged to query the new &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block table|block]]&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block target table|block_target]]&lt;/code&gt; views instead.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.3|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects|Wikidata and Sister Projects]] is a multi-day online event that will focus on how Wikidata is integrated to Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. The event runs from May 29 – June 1. You can [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects#Sessions|read the Program schedule]] and [[d:Special:RegisterForEvent/1291|register]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 20:04, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Works as a header ==

Is &quot;Works&quot; by itself as a header in Portals meant to be read as &quot;Works by&quot; or &quot;Works about&quot;? I see it mostly used to mean &quot;Works by&quot; when I see it in Author space and it is separated into &quot;Works by&quot; and &quot;Works about&quot; when the two exist. That is why it looks odd in location Portal space as in [[Portal:Westbrookville, New York]]. IT looks like it the works were written by the location. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 03:15, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: I replaced the L2 &quot;Works about ...&quot; to &quot;Works&quot; to keep it consistent with what's done on most other portal entries on the site. &quot;Works&quot; here means &quot;Works about&quot;. However, as of right now there appears to be no official standard for which header to use. [[Wikisource:Portal guidelines]] and [[Help:Portals]] say nothing about a &quot;Works&quot; section or &quot;Works about&quot; section.
: If &quot;Works&quot; sections should be changed to &quot;Works about&quot; by some informal vote here, then it's probably best to make it an official policy. We should consider also using bots to keep up with the maintenance that would be required to standardize all portal L2s one way or the other.
: Wikisource lacking structure is a massive problem here IMO, since for example Wiktionary has their quite detailed &quot;[[wikt:WT:ELE|Entry layout explained]]&quot; policy page, while the typical Wikisource culture is just to sorta do whatever we want in most areas that could be given a ruleset. This makes things like parsing our content especially difficult, for example. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:06, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::However, there are a number of portals where &quot;works by&quot; is applicable - government departments, for example. 
::If we want to be consistent, I think it would be best to have the same policy for both Authors and Portals. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:39, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That would not make sense for Portals unless they are People Portals.  We would never have &quot;Works by Philosophy&quot; as a header.  And on any larger Portal, it also makes no sense to have a &quot;Works about&quot; header, since potentially everything on the Portal is about the subject of the Portal.  But there are also Portals where the content is '''neither''' by nor about; for example [[Portal:French literature]], where the works ''are'' French literature, and not work written by French literature, nor works about French literature. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:44, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Red link in Monthly Challenge ==

There is a red link in the monthly challenge for [[Author:Department of Defense]] - I understand that author page should not be created. Should that link instead to [[Portal:United States Department of Defense]] ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:42, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

:Yes. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:45, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::Please could somebody make that change - the work is &quot;United States – Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967&quot;. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:40, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::: {{done}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Cheers. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees 2025 Selection &amp; Call for Questions ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
:''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement|{{int:interlanguage-link-mul}}]] • [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&amp;group=page-{{urlencode:Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement}}&amp;language=&amp;action=page&amp;filter= {{int:please-translate}}]''

Dear all,

This year, the term of 2 (two) Community- and Affiliate-selected Trustees on the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees will come to an end [1]. The Board invites the whole movement to participate in this year’s selection process and vote to fill those seats.

The Elections Committee will oversee this process with support from Foundation staff [2]. The Governance Committee, composed of trustees who are not candidates in the 2025 community-and-affiliate-selected trustee selection process (Raju Narisetti, Shani Evenstein Sigalov, Lorenzo Losa, Kathy Collins, Victoria Doronina and Esra’a Al Shafei) [3], is tasked with providing Board oversight for the 2025 trustee selection process and for keeping the Board informed. More details on the roles of the Elections Committee, Board, and staff are here [4].

Here are the key planned dates:

* May 22 – June 5: Announcement (this communication) and call for questions period [6]
* June 17 – July 1, 2025: Call for candidates
* July 2025: If needed, affiliates vote to shortlist candidates if more than 10 apply [5]
* August 2025: Campaign period
* August – September 2025: Two-week community voting period
* October – November 2025: Background check of selected candidates
* Board’s Meeting in December 2025: New trustees seated

Learn more about the 2025 selection process - including the detailed timeline, the candidacy process, the campaign rules, and the voter eligibility criteria - on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025|[link]]].

'''Call for Questions'''

In each selection process, the community has the opportunity to submit questions for the Board of Trustees candidates to answer. The Election Committee selects questions from the list developed by the community for the candidates to answer. Candidates must answer all the required questions in the application in order to be eligible; otherwise their application will be disqualified. This year, the Election Committee will select 5 questions for the candidates to answer. The selected questions may be a combination of what’s been submitted from the community, if they’re alike or related. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates|[link]]]

'''Election Volunteers'''

Another way to be involved with the 2025 selection process is to be an Election Volunteer. Election Volunteers are a bridge between the Elections Committee and their respective community. They help ensure their community is represented and mobilize them to vote. Learn more about the program and how to join on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Election_volunteers|[link].]]

Thank you!

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2022/Results

[2] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Committee:Elections_Committee_Charter

[3] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Committee_Membership,_December_2024

[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections_committee/Roles

[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/FAQ

[6] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates

Best regards,

Victoria Doronina

Board Liaison to the Elections Committee

Governance Committee&lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 03:08, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
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== We are looking for a pilot for our new feature, Favourite Templates ==

Hello everyone! [[meta:Community Tech|Community Tech]] are building a new feature, called [[metawiki:Community_Wishlist/Focus_areas/Template_recall_and_discovery|Favourite Templates]], that will provide a better way for new and experienced contributors to recall and discover templates via the template dialog, that works with both VisualEditor and wikitext editor. We hope this will increase dialog usage and the number of templates added.

Since 2013, experienced volunteers have asked for a more intuitive template selector, exposing popular or most-used templates on the template dialog. At this stage of work, we are focusing on allowing users to put templates in a “favourite” list, so that their reuse will be easier. At a later stage, we will focus on helping users discover or find templates.

We are looking for potential additional testers for Favourite Templates, and we thought you might be interested in trying it out. If so, please let us know if it is the case, we would be happy to set up a pilot. So far, the feature has been deployed successfully on Polish and Arabic Wikipedia, and we’re currently in talks with other projects for expanding the pilot phase.

In addition, we’d love to hear your feedback and ideas for helping people find and insert templates. Some ideas we’ve identified are searching or browsing templates by category, or showing the number of times a template has been transcluded.

Of course, we are ready to answer your questions and to give you all the information you need. Thanks in advance!

—[[User:SWilson (WMF)|SWilson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SWilson (WMF)|talk]]) 05:23, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== DTIC file - Colors in Terrain ==


Is this PD-US-Gov?

https://archive.org/details/DTIC_ADA277204/page/n3/mode/2up

If so I'd like to put it on Wikisource. In addition it would be appreciated if someone with expertise could advise on how to reconstruct the XYZ values from the xy and luminance factors given.  This is so I can make used of the dataset (with citation) in respect of other projects. (I would of course be happy with a relevant color chart being constructed as a semi-formal academic paper over on Wikiversity.)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:52, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think, unfortunately, it is not PD-US-Gov. I don't believe US Gov contractors count as federal employees for the purpose of copyright law, and the [https://www.acquisition.gov/far/27.404-3 Federal Acquisition Regulation 27.404-3] specifically outlines that contractor producers of scientific and technical reports have blanket permission to reassert copyright on their research. That same regulation notes that the free unlimited distribution license which is noted on the document is just to the US Gov; I don't believe the public can tap into that license to redistribute.
:Perhaps someone with more US Gov works experience can chime in though. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:13, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

: Bother. Looks like I'll have to find the original journal articles directly then. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:38, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
: The source dataset seems to be a 1940's translation published in Canada of a 1943 Russian language work, This gets interesting. Can someone dig a little deeper? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Have we lost some Validated Indexes? ==

On 11 Sept. 2024 I updated [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] with our 6500th completed index. I just went to check on progress to the next milestone of 7000 only to discover that there are only 5284 in [[:Category:Index Validated]]. How and when did we lose over 1500 validated Indexes? [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:19, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
: I place my bet on the index lua error from two months and a half ago. We have ~12k indexes that just don't have ''any'' categories (out of 35583 total indexes). I think some of those affected by the bug had all their Page:s already transcluded, and so the Page:s didn't count as orphan and we didn't find them yet. The categorylink table must just have not been updated. Confirmation of this: The first thus uncategorised index reported when I queried was [[Index:! Explosive objects in War in Ukraine, 2022 (01).jpg]]. It had page_links_updated set to 20250311190213, which is 11 march, the date of the lua index error. On a null edit, it disappeared from the list. We probably ought to get 'round to null-editing all these indexes. I'm really busy these days but I could patch up some code next week. 12k is not that much. If we say one null edit/min that makes 12k minutes, or 200 hours, or just over a week. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:07, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (FYI: the complete list is [https://quarry.wmcloud.org/query/94236 here]. To refresh (you need to have forked) just re-submit. Replag aside, should update instantaneously.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:24, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Hadn't thought of that, despite the fact that I've been null-editing Indexes via LonelyPages every three days. I'm part way through G with another update due this evening (my time). Any Index that is not pdf or djvu has been skipped over. Where there are Pages without an Index, I've left them for investigation later. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 17:58, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Any specific reason for skipping non-pdf/djvu indexes? Normally they should work like others. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:01, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Because the listing in LonelyPages is the Page namespace and the link to the Index doesn't appear as a tab in the same way. Thus easier to ignore at present and then deal with as a group later. I much prefer dealing with a single workflow at a time. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::By the way - the orphaned pages listing was actually updated yesterday - it starts again on the first of the month,
::::::I have been trying to reduce the main pages on the orphaned pages list. A number of those have been works transcluded but affected by the index lua error. (And so not linked from anywhere else). I have tried adding other links as well. Of course, this means that main pages affected by the lua error do not show there if they already were linked from elsewhere. --
::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::: @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] and [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] : the query I linked to above ''does'' give an exhaustive list, transclusion or no transclusion, exploiting the fact that broken indexes lost their categories. It also gives the indexes not the pages, so there's no trouble of reaching the index from the pages. If you want, I can reasonably easily get the list into a wikipage with links (as opposed to the quarry result of just page names). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:37, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I've made a list at [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]]. Having already dealt with some, it's reduced in size by ca. 500 from the initial. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:21, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: Would you mind other editors editing that page? So we can remove those that are done and keep track of where we're at. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:41, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I've forked the query to select .djvu indexes (&lt;code&gt;page_title like '%.djvu'&lt;/code&gt;). 3600 are remaining. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 10:52, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::: Welp, we do also have to do the PDFs. It's not a good thing, but many indexes are done PDF. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:54, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I have no problems with other editors editing the page. Keeping track and not duplicating effort is always good. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 22:33, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All DjVu indexes done. The page is updated. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All jpg, jpeg, webm indexes done. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All not .pdf indexes done (6,818). [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]] updated. Now 5,641 pages in Category:Index Validated • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The proposed query has to be modified, ~2000 indexes having categories other than &quot;Index:...&quot;.
::::::::::::I have used as a jointure: 
:::::::::::::&lt;code&gt;and page_id not in ( select cl_from  from categorylinks   where cl_to like 'Index%' )&lt;/code&gt;
::::::::::::to get a new list. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:29, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: &lt;code&gt; AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM categorylinks WHERE cl_from = page_id AND cl_to LIKE 'Index%')&lt;/code&gt; is probably faster. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: As a side note, I found why these indexes have some of their cats but not all: the categories that are added manually are actually out of the template; so when the template broke, they only lost the categories that relied on it; which means the status cats &amp;co, but not the manual ones. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:56, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::All Indexes in the second list are now null-edited and [[:Category:Index Validated]] is at 6953, which approximately what I was expecting to see. There are only 141 in the Validated category that need to have their transclusion status checked. Thanks to {{ping|M-le-mot-dit}} for the assistance on getting all the Indexes null-edited so quickly. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:42, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:The milestone of 7000 Validated indexes was reached yesterday. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 07:57, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (I think it's [[Index:Skyes Picot, The Manchester Guardian, Monday, November 26, 1917, p5.jpg]].) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The Category contains a template ({{tl|Proofreadpage_index_template/testcases}}), so it may be [[Index:The President's Proclamation (Proctor, 1963).jpg]]. Quarry gives 7004 indexes. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Indeed, good catch! :) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:13, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::It was indeed The President's Proclamation. [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] has been updated. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-23 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is now available on all Wikimedia wikis. Editors can use this new extension to create interactive data visualizations like bar, line, area, and pie charts. Charts are designed to replace many of the uses of the legacy [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Graph|Graph extension]].

'''Updates for editors'''
* It is now easier to configure automatic citations for your wiki within the visual editor's [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Citoid/Enabling Citoid on your wiki|citation generator]]. Administrators can now set a default template by using the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;_default&lt;/code&gt; key in the local &lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[MediaWiki:Citoid-template-type-map.json]]&lt;/bdi&gt; page ([[mw:Special:Diff/6969653/7646386|example diff]]). Setting this default will also help to future-proof your existing configurations when [[phab:T347823|new item types]] are added in the future. You can still set templates for individual item types as they will be preferred to the default template. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384709]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:20}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:20|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Starting the week of June 2, bots logging in using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=clientlogin&lt;/code&gt; will fail more often. This is because of stronger protections against suspicious logins. Bots using [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Bot passwords|bot passwords]] or using a loginless authentication method such as [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/OAuth/Owner-only consumers|OAuth]] are not affected. If your bot is not using one of those, you should update it; using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; without a bot password was deprecated [[listarchive:list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/3EEMN7VQX5G7WMQI5K2GP5JC2336DPTD/|in 2016]]. For most bots, this only requires changing what password the bot uses. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T395205]
* From this week, Wikimedia wikis will allow ES2017 features in JavaScript code for official code, gadgets, and user scripts. The most visible feature of ES2017 is &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;code&gt;async&lt;/code&gt;/&lt;code&gt;await&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/bdi&gt; syntax, allowing for easier-to-read code. Until this week, the platform only allowed up to ES2016, and a few months before that, up to ES2015. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T381537]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.4|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* Scholarship applications to participate in the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025|GLAM Wiki Conference 2025]] are now open. The conference will take place from 30 October to 1 November, in Lisbon, Portugal. GLAM contributors who lack the means to support their participation can [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025/Scholarships|apply here]]. Scholarship applications close on June 7th.

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 23:54, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
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== Copyright status of a work. ==

This is listed as public domain on Hathi:-
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31210024780379&amp;seq=15

However, it contains apparenty reprints of papers published in other works, which may need additional evalaution.

The author of the papers seems to have been an active Employee at the NBS (later NIST), So can someone make a determination as to this work's potential inclusion in Wikisource, given that the works itself is Federal?. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:00, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}} I've sent the NIST an email, hopefully they reply. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:54, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: The concern is that some of the papers appear to be published in Journals, which given the dates would have had active registrations, (even if the individual author concerned didn't make individual periodical ones.). [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:05, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}}
:This is the response from the NIST:
:&quot;Hi,
:Generally, official writings by federal employees are not subject to copyright protection within the United States (a narrow exception to this policy exists in the case of Standard Reference Data published under the provisions of the Standard Reference Data Act (Public Law 90-396). The Act permits NIST to copyright Standard Reference Data.  Click here for more information.)  However, the government may be able to assert copyright in countries other than the United States.  When official writings by NIST employees, except those covered under the Standard Reference Data Act, are submitted to a non-NIST publication, a statement should be included indicating that the material is not subject to copyright protection within the United States. If you are asked to sign a publication permission form, you should have it reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST prior to signing.  Some journals will accept our copyright form. (In fact, some journals will request this copyright form.) (External co-authors may be asked to sign an agreement transferring their copyright to the publisher, which they may choose to do.)
:Sample statement: Official contribution of the National Institute of Standards and Technology; not subject to copyright in the United States.
:Note that in most instances NIST Research Associates could assert copyright but may have agreed not to assert US copyright in their work done at NIST when they signed their NIST Associate’s Agreement. Whether or not to include the ‘not subject to copyright in the United States’ statement on manuscripts jointly authored by federal NIST employees and NIST Associates is a factual matter to be determined when the publication is drafted.
:If you are asked to sign a publisher’s agreement for your publication that agreement must first be reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.
:If you encounter any problems with a publisher, or need any help, contact the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.&quot;
:I think this is a yes, thoughts? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 11:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: Hmm, so that says NIST Research Associate works without other notices, are possibles. However, in respect of this specifc collection, some of the later articles are from Journals with their own copyrights and thus can't be included (because of the Journal Copyright, rather than the contributors.). On that basis, the original papers will have to be tracked down and evaluated on a paper by paper basis. 
:BTW for a Government agency, that response is suprisingly clear for our purposes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Colour vs b/w image? ==

Hi, I was finding the image for [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Taming_Liquid_Hydrogen_The_Centaur_Upper_Stage_Rocket.pdf/58]. For this text, instead of extracting from the low quality PDF, since they are all catalogued NASA images, I have just looked up the image IDs and downloaded them directly from the NASA/DVIDS website. However, for this specific page, the image is black and white, but I found a high-quality colour version at [https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/historic-facilities/rocket-engine-test-facility/retf-staff/]. What should I do? Use the colour version as is or convert it to black/white first? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:29, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: My 2¢ would be convert it to black &amp; white, as that's what the source has. The low-quality is very probably due to bad scanning. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 22:15, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== 'Indexes validated in [month]' category ==

Why does [[Index:Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf]] appear in [[:Category:Indexes validated in June 2025]], yet [[Index:Reference to some of the works executed in stained glass - William Raphael Eginton.pdf]] does not? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:46, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

:I expect it is because the former has an  entry in the box &quot;Validation date&quot; and the latter has that box blank. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:59, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]], @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] It is not longer blank now! But yes, you do have to manually fill in the validation date box, by editing the index page. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:01, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. (Though the index page was amended to show all validated in May.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:18, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:::[https://petscan.wmcloud.org/?psid=35284922 Petscan] lists 136 indexes in the above situation. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::I've sorted 96 of them, but need to call it a night. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 10:14, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Monthly Challenge colors on dark mode ==

For some reason the colors for the to fix header and the to proofread headers are swapped on dark mode. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:34, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: There where some muck-ups in the templates between the statuses (essentially, the classes were swapped and so the colors were swapped again to make it right). Caused some confusion when adding dark mode compat. Should be solved. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::Sorry for the mess up and thanks for the fix by the way! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Thinking REALLY big.. ==

Back in 2020, Fae mirrored PDF's of copyright records on IA to Commons.

Is there a contributor here that is willing to set up Index: here for post 1950's volumes?  

The thought was that it might be a way of finding works that might expire in the next few years, and if the renewals were looked into 
post 1930(rolling) volumes that might also be in scope for the period 1940 to 1950.  Other publications note a Fourth Series which continued to 1982(?) but those entries should already be in the online system. 

&quot;Mars-shot&quot; project, but worth it, if the transcription generated can be fed back into Wikidata as well.  This wouldn't be a project I'd focus on personally, my watchlist is already at 'life's work' length, but I felt this was something to be worked out. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Get IIIF working again. ==
Previously, inductiveload had a script ([[User:Inductiveload/jump_to_file]]) which helped improve the scans presented, by pulling them directly from hathi or IA, rather than  using the lower quality PDF present on Wikisource. 

Due to changes at IA ( URL in the script needs updating), this script stopped functioning.  Can someone PLEASE look into getting this working again, as it greatly assists in the transcription of works, where the PDF quality is exceptionally poor due to over compression or otherwise?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:04, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: As I already told you, the issue is with a line that has to be changed in the toolforge tool's code. See [[phab:T356227|T356227]]. This requires usurpation of the tool (given IL is gone at least for now); which is not easy to get. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:30, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: Thank you. So what could be a useful project is effectively stalled, because of 3 letters in old code, which can't be easily updated because the tool maintainer is absent. {{ping|Sohom Datta}} Another contributor attempted to fix this by patching the url on the Wikisource, but I couldn't get that technique to work.  The endpoint that the toolforge script uses now gives Error 500 suggesting it wasn't a priority to repair or was migrated.)..  As detailed in the phabricator ticket it's 4 characters in a single file that need changing.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:58, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: The project I refer to is above. a Marshsot project on the Catalog of Copyright Entries. (Yes I has strait jacket to hand! :lol:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:39, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

When 5 years after a massive upload, you find it isn't in a good quality:(.. 

I'm going to need some time to consider if I even attempt to work with this, and I am wondering if it's worth it, unless the PDF quality issue is resolved. Others here are working on making the hi-resimage loader work again, provided of course the endpoint it uses remains available. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 17:12, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-24 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product|Trust and Safety Product team]] is finalizing work needed to roll out [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|temporary accounts]] on large Wikipedias later this month. The team has worked with stewards and other users with extended rights to predict and address many use cases that may arise on larger wikis, so that community members can continue to effectively moderate and patrol temporary accounts. This will be the second of three phases of deployment – the last one will take place in September at the earliest. For more information about the recent developments on the project, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts/Updates|see this update]]. If you have any comments or questions, write on the [[mw:Talk:Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|talk page]], and [[m:Event:CEE Catch up Nr. 10 (June 2025)|join a CEE Catch Up]] this Tuesday.

'''Updates for editors'''
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]] The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Watchlist expiry|watchlist expiry]] feature allows editors to watch pages for a limited period of time. After that period, the page is automatically removed from your watchlist. Starting this week, you can set a preference for the default period of time to watch pages. The [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist-pageswatchlist|preferences]] also allow you to set different default watch periods for editing existing pages, pages you create, and when using rollback. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T265716]
[[File:Talk pages default look (April 2023).jpg|thumb|alt=Screenshot of the visual improvements made on talk pages|Example of a talk page with the new design, in French.]]
* The appearance of talk pages will change at almost all Wikipedias ([[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/19|some]] have already received this design change, [[phab:T379264|a few]] will get these changes later). You can read details about the changes [[diffblog:2024/05/02/making-talk-pages-better-for-everyone/|on ''Diff'']]. It is possible to opt out of these changes [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion|in user preferences]] (&quot;{{int:discussiontools-preference-visualenhancements}}&quot;). [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T319146][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T392121]
* Users with specific extended rights (including administrators, bureaucrats, checkusers, oversighters, and stewards) can now have IP addresses of all temporary accounts [[phab:T358853|revealed automatically]] during time-limited periods where they need to combat high-speed account-hopping vandalism. This feature was requested by stewards. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T386492]
* This week, the Moderator Tools and Machine Learning teams will continue the rollout of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], releasing it to several more Wikipedias. This filter utilizes the Revert Risk model, which was created by the Research team, to highlight edits that are likely to be reverted and help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic contributions. The feature will be rolled out to the following Wikipedias: {{int:project-localized-name-afwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bnwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-cywiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-hawwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-iswiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-kkwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-simplewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-trwiki/en}}. The rollout will continue in the coming weeks to include [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|the rest of the Wikipedias in this project]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T391964]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* AbuseFilter editors active on Meta-Wiki and large Wikipedias are kindly asked to update AbuseFilter to make it compatible with temporary accounts. A link to the instructions and the private lists of filters needing verification are [[phab:T369611|available on Phabricator]].
* Lua modules now have access to the name of a page's associated thumbnail image, and on [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/operations/mediawiki-config/+/2e4ab14aa15bb95568f9c07dd777065901eb2126/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php#10849 some wikis] to the WikiProject assessment information. This is possible using two new properties on [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#added-by-extensions|mw.title objects]], named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageImage&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageAssessments&lt;/code&gt;. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T131911][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T380122]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.5|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 01:16, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28846858 --&gt;
:NOTE: The default watchlist expiry time feature isn't available on here and it isn't available on enwiki or commons either. It ''is'' available on mediawikiwiki though, and I'm not sure why. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: See [[wikitech:Deployment train#Groups]]. In a nutshell: mediawiki updates are progressively rolled out in groups; we're in group 2, so we get them on wednesdays; as opposed to mediawikiwiki being in group 1 (tuesday) and enwiki being in group 3 (thursday). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you for explaining! [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 16:55, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family (archive.org)]] ==

This states that the source was ftp://ia340915.us.archive.org/1/items/LovecraftInPdfFormat/a_jermyn.pdf - trying that link did not work for me, and trying to find this item on Internet Archive gave me nothing. Anyone have any ideas where this source might be ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: That link uses the FTP protocol. Switching to http or https gives a 500 error.
: It also is a link to the direct file as opposed to the IA item.
: However, I can't find any item with such a name either.
: Possibly it was pulled out of IA's collections, but that would seem strange (pre-1930 publication). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. Wikipedia indicates that the story was only published under that title in 1986, so I assume that it was taken from a later collection. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:20, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Ah, that would explain IA pulling it out of their collections. In the last few months they've pulled out a lot of stuff which was plausibly PD (probably afraid of getting sued to death). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:25, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::::And, of course, shows a danger in not uploading the scan to Commons or here.
::::We now have a scan-backed copy of the story from the original Weird Tales printing, and a Weird Tales reprint available for transcription. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Bayonne Times need a link to Wikidata ==

Can someone link The Bayonne Times here at Wikisource to Wikidata Q118610753. Usually a bot does this, so if you see an error, let me know what I did wrong. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 14:58, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}}. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 15:11, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: (Heads up - the bot runs weekly, on saturday evenings UTC. So for this page, which was linked yesterday on the 9th, it would have done it next sat (the 14th).) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== How to improve this table ==

Hi, I made a table at [[Page:A History Of Mathematical Notations Vol I (1928).djvu/35]]. Whilst it works, it probably is quite a bodge solution and probably isn't compatible with mobile. Could anyone give some ideas as to how to improve it? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 17:48, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Matrix|Matrix]] I am not sure if all tables can be made safe for mobile, so I am not sure exactly what to recommend. If you concern is having a table altogether, you could try individual lines of text, with [[:Template:Phantom]] to align the individual terms (alignment would not be preserved on all screens, but it would stop the font size shrinking when viewed in small windows, as presently). Also, very minor, but why call &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Right|}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; on cell contents, when you can apply &lt;nowiki&gt;{{ts|ar}}|&lt;/nowiki&gt;? Maybe it is identical, but it just seemed a little odd. P.S. There is also a quotation mark missing on the last 8 on the page, but I am not sure what the 8 is/isn't supposed to be aligned with (the 1/7th, and the 5,2,1 look like they are in slightly different columns). Up to you where you place it. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Template:Id ==

I have no idea why this template is the ''number one'' spot on [[Special:WantedTemplates]] (all such links are in the Page namespace). My guess is that it is somehow being transcluded by means of a different, broken template. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:12, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:It appears to be something to do with {{tl|float left}} after ShakespeareFan00's last fiddle. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: Due to a typo in [[Special:PermaLink/15019930]], {{tl|float left}} briefly called {{tl|id}} instead of using {{code|{{{id}}}}}. By the time it was corrected, it got the time to spread out it these 3k-ish pages. Discussed this with them back in April; we were hoping that MW would realise and purge pagelinks. Manifestly not. I'd say ignore it? Except if someone fells like going on a null-editing spree again. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:54, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Update: either it was the waiting, or the purging the template, or someone purging all the pages *shrug*, but now the links to {{tl|id}} have disappeared from whatlinkshere. I think [[Special:Wantedtemplates]] will reflect that in a few days' time. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Jersey Journal disconnected from Wikidata ==

You can just restore the deletion at Q7743126. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 20:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{done}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 13:28, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Cabin at the Trail's End ==

There are two indexes [[Index:Cabin at the Trail's End (IA cabinattrailsend0000sheb).pdf]] where some pages have been created and [[Index:The Cabin at the Trail's End.djvu]] where, apparantly, the OCR is a page off. Which to keep ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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[[mul:Scriptorium]]
&lt;!-- Interwiki links --&gt;

= Announcements =

= Proposals =
== Overriding Vector 2022 paragraph spacing ==
Since the forced deployment in November 2024, and multiple discussions including [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-01#Paragraph_spacing], [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding V22 paragraph spacing|2]], [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Switching to the Vector 2022 skin: the final date|3]], and [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Deployment of Vector 2022|4]], the idea of overriding the excessive paragraph spacing from V22 was floated multiple times. V22 raised the 0.9em spacing between paragraphs to 1.5em, which broke content that expected text to have similar size across skins (notably but not only {{tl|overfloat image}}).

This proposal is therefore to add to [[MediaWiki:Gadget-Site.css]]:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.mw-body p {
    margin:0.4em 0 0.5em 0;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Technical notes:
* this should have neither false positives nor false negatives given that &lt;code&gt;.mw-body p&lt;/code&gt; is the exact same selector used by V22.
* if site.css is loaded before the skin css, then we can just add a &lt;code&gt;html &lt;/code&gt; at the start of the selector: will not change the selection (given everything's in an html), and will give it more specificity (0,1,2 vs 0,1,1).
* 0.4em 0 0.5em 0 is exactly how it was in V10.
* this may stop working one day whenever WMF decides to IDHT another change through; but so can the entire website, and at least we'll have a fix. If it stops working, we can easily remove it and go back to our current state of having broken content.
— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} as proposer. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}}, strongly. Thanks for starting the vote! --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:51, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:58, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:09, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

= Bot approval requests =
* See [[Wikisource:Bots]]  for information about applying for a bot status
* See [[Wikisource:Bot requests]] if you require an existing bot to undertake a task

==[[User:333Bot]]==
(See also [[#Thinking of an anti-linkrot bot]].)

For non-scan backed works, sometimes the original webpage disappears and we lose the source. This task would archive automatically sources in new mainspace/talk pages at the wayback machine, and add {{tl|wml}}.

To avoid archiving vandalism, it would only do this on pages older than a week. (It won't search beyond the 2000th created page.)

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. Source's at [[User:Alien333/test#Link archiving]].

The idea would be to run this daily. Test edits: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14252&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001840] and [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14251&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001919]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:59, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
: As nearly two weeks have passed without objections, I activated this task per [[WS:BOT]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:59, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The run is over. Before launching the cronjob I will change the code to prevent it from archiving links in mainspace works' content (there are few valid reasons for extlinks in works; but there are some). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:48, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Did that, started cronjob. Will run at 16h14 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Note: For the last few days, it was stopped by an IA error on a certain page. I have now made it not crash on IA errors. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:03, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

==[[User:333Bot]] 2==
(See also [[#Seeking feedback on bot task to tag untagged deletion nominations]] for details and discussion.)

Works proposed for deletion at [[WS:PD]] or &lt;s&gt;[[WS:PD]]&lt;/s&gt;&lt;ins&gt;[[WS:CV]]&lt;/ins&gt; should be accordingly tagged. Occasionally, people forget to tag them. This task would locate these and tag them.

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. The code's at [[User:Alien333/test#Nomination_tagging]]. It would run daily. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:WS:PD or WS:PD ? Aren't they the same ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:24, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, you're right. Got mixed up. Meant PD and CV. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Heads up: I started the cronjob. (No untagged nominations rn, so may do no edits.) Runs will occur at about 5h40 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:27, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

=Repairs (and moves)=

'''Designated for requests related to the repair of works (and scans of works) presented on Wikisource'''

See also [[Wikisource:Scan lab]]

== Explanatory Notes Indices ==
Please move the following indices to their new corresponding filename
* [[Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
[[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:42, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: Errr. Feel free to trout me, but I don't understand what you're asking for.
: As in, move which pages to which titles? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::* Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-16 qp).pdf
::* Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 (UKPGA 2003-31 qp).pdf
::* Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Defamation Act 2013 (UKPGA 2013-26 qp).pdf
::* Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Modern Slavery Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-30 qp).pdf
::* Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Live Music Act 2012 (UKPGA 2012-2 qp).pdf
::* Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 (UKPGA 2011-14 qp).pdf
::This is to match filename move at commons. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:29, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

= Other discussions =
== [[Contra-Props]] ==

This article was published in a British magazine in 1941; the author died in 1946. Would this be still in copyright ? Or PD ?

(This was the subject of a previous query here which got archived without being answered - [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2019-09#1941_UK_publication]]) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:51, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
: Looks copyrighted to me. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:31, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
: Unless there's some reason they count as a US work, all UK works were restored by the URAA. The few exceptions are either Crown Copyright or were published by authors who died before 1926.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:26, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - I have put it as apparant copyright violation - [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions#Contra-Props]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That page has now been deleted so this query can be closed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:48, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Manual indexing of news articles versus Automatic indexing of news articles ==

I want to convert [[Brooklyn Eagle]] to an automatic-index instead of the hand-curated index. The hand curated index looks pretty, but is always missing articles. We can have [[The Brooklyn Eagle]] as the pretty one. See how it is done at [[Jersey Journal]], scroll to the bottom and there is a link to the pretty hand-curated list, missing many articles. This is similar to how Commons does it, you have automatic index at Category:Foo, and hand curated one as Foo, that is always missing entries. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 17:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:More automated curation of Periodicals and Newspapers on this site in the future would in general be a good thing - there's a lot of good work being done across a lot of these works but the process of creating the main-space pages for them can get very tedious and repetitive. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose had to write janky programs to semi-automate their individual workflows for some of these works.
:Your idea of a distinction between '''The Somewhere Argus''' and '''Somewhere Argus''' is interesting (and as I'm not a big user of wikimedia, not something I've particularly noticed on that site), but it doesn't seem particularly intuitive to me that one should be a raw list and another a curated view (or which way round those should be, and it seems quite a big departure from how work is generally presented here. Is it done anywhere else on this site? In the past I've seen a lot of resistance to the same work being included in different main-space pages. 
:In terms of a curated view, that may be better done by creating a Portal for that work. For example, when I worked through the July-Dec 1914 volumes of [[Punch]], I created a summary of all of the books reviewed in that volume which I put here: [[Portal:Punch/Reviewed Books]], that wouldn't really have been appropriate to put in the main page. 
:Alternatively, what's stopping you from having a list of highlights and the automatic index linked from the same page? That's effectively what [[The New York Times]] does - some of the issues are highlighted (those for which enough work has been done for them to have a complete contents page) but for the rest, there are year-based automatic lists using the {{tl|header periodical}} template. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 09:56, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
:* You are right, &quot;Portal:Brooklyn Eagle&quot; would be best for the hand curated ones, we should standardize on that, and migrate older ones to that format. Currently there are six styles of indexes for magazines and newspapers. There were at least ten different styles before I tried to standardized them. I eliminated the ones that were experimental one-of-a-kind ones. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 19:25, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Don't we already have a standard format, as documented at [[Wikisource:Periodical guidelines]] ? —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:24, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:By the way, I fixed [[Jersey Journal]]. There shouldn't be two separate mainspace pages for the same work, so I deleted the one that was simply a dump of subpages, and replaced it with the properly structured list that was previously located at [[The Jersey Journal]].
:In general, the automatic subpage listing should only be used as a temporary stop-gap until a proper page listing can be created. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:31, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::To your original point though - if you can find a way to automatically list all subpages, whether or not they have already been created, and in the correct order they appear in the publication, then that would be amazing and definitely we'd all make extensive use of such a system. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:14, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
Automate portals, have them point to Main.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:50, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

==QuickSurveys==
Apparently some new “feature” has been forced upon us again. These are annoying pop-up boxes which really mess up the formatting, especially if whatever text at the top of the page is centered (as it often is). Can this be disabled by default for everyone? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:32, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Dropped a task ([[phab:T393436]]) to ask them to not barge into the content like this, but I don't have much hope.
: And no, this extension and its parameters are a wmf thing, so we can't really do anything on our own. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:I have no clue what you're talking about. Can you tell me the steps to reproduce this issue? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:49, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::I can see it on any page that I open (and it is very disturbing), so if you do not, you might have it disabled in your preferences. See also the screenshots uploaded to the above linked phabricator task. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I don't. I'm trying to figure out which settings the original person has to see why he sees it, but if you're seeing it also, that is odd to me. I'm not sure why anyone is seeing this. I'm not. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 12:19, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::In the preferences under the &quot;User profile&quot; tab there is a section &quot;QuickSurvey extension&quot; where the surveys can be set as hidden. Currently logged out users also do not see it, but if this feature stays, we can imo expect it will be used to display messages (e.g. pleas for funding) to them as well. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: These things are highly targetable and targeted, see [[mw:Extension:QuickSurveys]]. Probably you aren't counted as an active patroller here (and this precise survey is about patrolling tools). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:57, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just an example of what I am seeing: [https://phab.wmfusercontent.org/file/data/wvrcadows4ftokyz3lyg/PHID-FILE-udsgsisdj2hq2uuva46d/screenshot3jpg.jpg] --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:06, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
*Another awful example: [[Charter Granted by Queen Elizabeth to the East India Company]]. This time, the pop-up is within the delete template. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:59, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*: Well, it just barges into the first thing it finds. They don't appear to be actively paying attention to tasks, and I don't expect them to pay attention to user feedback either, so this probably won't be fixed for a good while. My two cents are go disable it in your settings.
*: At least we've got the comfort most users don't see it.... But of course they make whatever surveys they want targeting whoever they want, so it's not that unlikely that this will become a problem for everyone in the near future.
*: Aaaahh, deploying breaking changes with no discussion, no warning, no community opt-out, and without listening to feedback. Becoming a habit, isn't it? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:43, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::It's showing up for me too.  Once I disable it on one project, then I get it on another.  Those of us who regularly visit multiple projects are going to be the most annoyed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:50, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::: Did you check the global settings? Perhaps there you can opt-out for all projects. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::I don't even have the option of using the same skin globally. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:28, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::: That's weird. So like, when you go [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-rendering-skin here], you don't see a &quot;Skin&quot;, a checkbox on whether to make it a default setting, and radio buttons with the options? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:20, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Might I suggest the following solution? : &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#bodyContent .ext-quick-survey-panel {display:none;}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 00:57, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::There's a setting to always hide them; the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole (except through site css, but Xover is the only active intadmin and has shown much reticence to adding that kind of stuff (see [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding_V22_paragraph_spacing]])). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:18, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: If that is an issue, we can simply come to a consensus, as a community, that the QS system needs to be blocked, and direct him to make the appropriate changes reflecting that consensus. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 12:35, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:Yes, the reticence of one admin should not override community consensus, and Xover knows that as well as the rest of us :) (that being said, I think a proper proposal would be necessary to determine consensus for something like this) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:13, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::Is amending the user profile, as stated by Jan above, not a good enough solution ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:11, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::: From the technical standpoint, yes, changing site CSS is 99% sure to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:::As Alien333 said, the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole - and you can't do that with the user profile. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:00, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Second pair of eyes for unclear letter ==

At [[Page:Poems Hornblower.djvu/110]], the last letter of {{tqi|Draw with their very breath—the poisonous faith}} is not super clear. I think I see the beginning of the arch of an h going right from the vertical bar after the t, but I'd appreciate if someone could give a quick look and confirm or not. (Compare also the {{tqi|faith}} from {{tqi|The world's cold faith,}} a few lines above.) Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:51, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:I think your assessment is good.  &quot;poisonous faith&quot; works with &quot;inglorious views&quot; and the soul straying from a &quot;diviner walk&quot;.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 21:02, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
::I agree; scans of different copies of the same book show the same misprinting ([https://books.google.com/books?id=ox1kAAAAcAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 BL], [https://books.google.com/books?id=fCQOAAAAQAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 Bod]), but the start of the arch of the 'h' is just visible in all. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:40, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to both. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:16, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== FYI: Wikisource: Preserving the Past for the Future ==

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2025/05/13/wikisource-preserving-the-past-for-the-future/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
*Who is Nanteza Divine Gabriella? I don’t recognize the name. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:11, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:* [[User:DivineGaby]] [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:53, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

== Call for Candidates for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
The results of voting on the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement Guidelines and Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) Charter is [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Annual review/2025#Results|available on Meta-wiki]].

You may now [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025/Candidates|submit your candidacy to serve on the U4C]] through 29 May 2025 at 12:00 UTC. Information about [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|eligibility, process, and the timeline are on Meta-wiki]]. Voting on candidates will open on 1 June 2025 and run for two weeks, closing on 15 June 2025 at 12:00 UTC.

If you have any questions, you can ask on [[m:Talk:Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|the discussion page for the election]]. -- in cooperation with the U4C, &lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

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== Billingual template with Welsh Parliament Acts ==

The formatting problems that @[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] complained about in [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] could be fixed by using the {{tl|Bilingual}} template, however this creates its own formatting problems which I have shown at [[Wikisource:Sandbox]]. Additionally, the page numbers don't match up because the page numbers go up every second page due to the welsh version of a page using the same page number as the corresponding english version. Does anyone know how to fix this. 

Additionally, could someone make a version of the Bilingual template that could be more useful for longer works such as [[Index:Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2023 (ASC 2023-3 kp).pdf]] so whoever ends up working on that doesn't have to use the template over 200 times in one page. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:33, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:Not sure about the code for this, but would it be possible to transclude multiple pages at once like [[Template:Side by side]] using the &lt;code&gt;&lt;pages&gt;&lt;/code&gt; syntax, but reset the display each page so that the first lines of each page line up? I'm sure there's some struggle with that preserving the indents using colons like appears when using [[Template:Bilingual]]... [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 21:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
::The current practice for bitexts like this, is to transclude the English here, and the alternate pages at the Wikisource for the other language.  The two can then be linked to each other in the notes section of the header.  There are some exceptions here, and you can see an example at [[Modern Czech Poetry/October sonnet]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The Welsh elements of [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] have been moved over to Welsh Wikisource, and the pages have been linked in Wikidata and mentioned in the notes section! [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:29, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[:File:Weird Tales Volume 13 Number 06 (1929-06).djvu]] ==

This was originally uploaded to Commons with pages that were still in copyright redacted. Those are now out of copyright. What is the best way to restore them ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:19, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:Upload a new version of the file over the top of what's there. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:52, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
: That's assuming that placeholders were left. If not, then we need to first shift the Page:s to give room for the added pages. I can do that; ping me if it's needed. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:15, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you both. Yes, on this one, there are blank pages where the text was redacted, so taht should work fine. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:03, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== HathiTrust ==

[[Help:Image extraction#HathiTrust]] no longer works me; when I try running it, I just get Error 403.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 08:27, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I haven't tried any programs myself, but there are a few image downloader programs for HathiTrust available on GitHub, [https://github.com/Addono/HathiTrust-downloader this one for example]. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of HathiTrust can vouch for a particular method. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:22, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Linking to Explanatory Notes for UK Legislation ==

@[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] @[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] I've seen 3 different ways of linking to Explanatory Notes currently seen at [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]], [[Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011]], and [[Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015]] and I feel like we should have some consistency with how we link to Explanatory Notes. How should we go about linking to Explanatory Notes. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:25, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I did Welsh as I did because the King's Printer version included a formal title page including the mention of the explanatory notes. With Fixed Term Parliaments, it doesn't have that page, so the inclusion of the note makes sense. We could add that to ones that do have the title page. I personally don't know if using the &quot;next&quot; parameter like in Specialist Printing is best, because it prevents us from using that parameter to link to the next act that year, if that's something we wanted to do. I know it's done in some other countries that have full years of acts transcluded. Similar issue in Fixed Term Parliaments using &quot;next&quot; for the Schedules.&lt;br&gt;
:I think best is to link things mentioned within the title/TOC like in [[Scotland Act 1998]], including Explanatory Notes if there, and then we can mention Explanatory Notes in the &quot;notes&quot; of the header, and leave &quot;previous&quot; and &quot;next&quot; for linking to surrounding acts. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:48, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== Page marked historical ==

Heads up that I tagged [[Wikisource:Purchases]] with {{tl|historical}} since it hasn't actually been in use in several years. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:48, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: This project page is interesting and was unknown to me until just now. It is very similar to an idea that [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] and I have discussed recently, which would involve creating a centralized page in the Project namespace for requests for scans to be made where no scans appear to be accessible online (which would replace [[User:TE(æ)A,ea./Requests]] in their personal user space). My suggested name was either [[WS:Requests for scans]], or making that a section of the [[WS:Scan Lab]]. FYI, because of the inter-library loan (ILL) system, very few books would actually need to be ''bought'' in order to be scanned anymore (as far as I understand it), but buying should definitely be an option for those who are willing to donate the material, in cases where ILL is not possible. All in all, the Purchases page has merit conceptually, but in its current implementation inserting {{tl|historical}} was the right move. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:00, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-21 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The Editing Team and the Machine Learning Team are working on a new check for newcomers: [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check|Peacock check]]. Using a prediction model, this check will encourage editors to improve the tone of their edits, using artificial intelligence. We invite volunteers to review the first version of the Peacock language model for the following languages: Arabic, Spanish, Portuguese, English, and Japanese. Users from these wikis interested in reviewing this model are [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check/model test|invited to sign up at MediaWiki.org]]. The deadline to sign up is on May 23, which will be the start date of the test.

'''Updates for editors'''

* From May 20, 2025, [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Oversight policy|oversighters]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Meta:CheckUsers|checkusers]] will need to have their accounts secured with two-factor authentication (2FA) to be able to use their advanced rights. All users who belong to these two groups and do not have 2FA enabled have been informed. In the future, this requirement may be extended to other users with advanced rights. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Mandatory two-factor authentication for users with some extended rights|Learn more]].
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]]  [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|Multiblocks]] will begin mass deployment by the end of the month: all non-Wikipedia projects plus Catalan Wikipedia will adopt Multiblocks in the week of May 26, while all other Wikipedias will adopt it in the week of June 2. Please [[m:Talk:Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|contact the team]] if you have concerns. Administrators can test the new user interface now on your own wiki by browsing to [{{fullurl:Special:Block|usecodex=1}} {{#special:Block}}?usecodex=1], and can test the full multiblocks functionality [[testwiki:Special:Block|on testwiki]]. Multiblocks is the feature that makes it possible for administrators to impose different types of blocks on the same user at the same time. See the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|help page]] for more information. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* Later this week, the [[{{#special:SpecialPages}}]] listing of almost all special pages will be updated with a new design. This page has been [[phab:T219543|redesigned]] to improve the user experience in a few ways, including: The ability to search for names and aliases of the special pages, sorting, more visible marking of restricted special pages, and a more mobile-friendly look. The new version can be [https://meta.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:SpecialPages previewed] at Beta Cluster now, and feedback shared in the task. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219543]
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is being enabled on more wikis. For a detailed list of when the extension will be enabled on your wiki, please read the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart/Project#Deployment Timeline|deployment timeline]].
* [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Main Page|Wikifunctions]] will be deployed on May 27 on five Wiktionaries: [[wikt:ha:|Hausa]], [[wikt:ig:|Igbo]], [[wikt:bn:|Bengali]], [[wikt:ml:|Malayalam]], and [[wikt:dv:|Dhivehi/Maldivian]]. This is the second batch of deployment planned for the project. After deployment, the projects will be able to call [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Introduction|functions from Wikifunctions]] and integrate them in their pages. A function is something that takes one or more inputs and transforms them into a desired output, such as adding up two numbers, converting miles into metres, calculating how much time has passed since an event, or declining a word into a case. Wikifunctions will allow users to do that through a simple call of [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Catalogue|a stable and global function]], rather than via a local template.
* Later this week, the Wikimedia Foundation will publish a hub for [[diffblog:2024/07/09/on-the-value-of-experimentation/|experiments]]. This is to showcase and get user feedback on product experiments. The experiments help the Wikimedia movement [[diffblog:2023/07/13/exploring-paths-for-the-future-of-free-knowledge-new-wikipedia-chatgpt-plugin-leveraging-rich-media-social-apps-and-other-experiments/|understand new users]], how they interact with the internet and how it could affect the Wikimedia movement. Some examples are [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Generated Video|generated video]], the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Roblox game|Wikipedia Roblox speedrun game]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Discord bot|the Discord bot]].
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:29}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:29|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, there was a bug with creating an account using the API, which has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T390751]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Gadgets and user scripts that interact with [[{{#special:Block}}]] may need to be updated to work with the new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|manage blocks interface]]. Please review the [[mw:Help:Manage blocks/Developers|developer guide]] for more information. If you need help or are unable to adapt your script to the new interface, please let the team know on the [[mw:Help talk:Manage blocks/Developers|talk page]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.title&lt;/code&gt; object allows you to get information about a specific wiki page in the [[w:en:Wikipedia:Lua|Lua]] programming language. Starting this week, a new property will be added to the object, named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;isDisambiguationPage&lt;/code&gt;. This property allows you to check if a page is a disambiguation page, without the need to write a custom function. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T71441]
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|15px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] User script developers can use a [[toolforge:gitlab-content|new reverse proxy tool]] to load javascript and css from [[gitlab:|gitlab.wikimedia.org]] with &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.loader.load&lt;/code&gt;. The tool's author hopes this will enable collaborative development workflows for user scripts including linting, unit tests, code generation, and code review on &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;gitlab.wikimedia.org&lt;/bdi&gt; without a separate copy-and-paste step to publish scripts to a Wikimedia wiki for integration and acceptance testing. See [[wikitech:Tool:Gitlab-content|Tool:Gitlab-content on Wikitech]] for more information.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.2|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* The 12th edition of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wiki Workshop 2025|Wiki Workshop 2025]], a forum that brings together researchers that explore all aspects of Wikimedia projects, will be held virtually on 21-22 May. Researchers can [https://pretix.eu/wikimedia/wikiworkshop2025/ register now].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;

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== RfC ongoing regarding Abstract Wikipedia (and your project) ==

&lt;div lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;
''(Apologies for posting in English, if this is not your first language)''

Hello all! We opened a discussion on Meta about a very delicate issue for the development of [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]]: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. Since some of the hypothesis involve your project, we wanted to hear your thoughts too. 

We want to make the decision process clear: we do not yet know which option we want to use, which is why we are consulting here. We will take the arguments from the Wikimedia communities into account, and we want to consult with the different communities and hear arguments that will help us with the decision. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

You can read the various hypothesis and have your say at [[:m:Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]]. Thank you in advance! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|&lt;span class=&quot;signature-talk&quot;&gt;{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}&lt;/span&gt;]]) 15:27, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Weird Tales file and index with incorrect name ==

[[Index:Weird Tales Volume 02 Number 2 (1937-02).djvu]] should say Volume 29. Do you think I should ask for the file on Commons to be moved, and then to have the index and pages here moved ? Or just leave it as it is ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:15, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
: Given some of it is already transcluded, and that the index is not exposed to the end reader, I'd say leaving a comment like {{tqi|(typo in file name)}} in the index title field would be enough of a clarification. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 04:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - thanks. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:39, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== Official Launch of The Million Wiki Project ==

We are thrilled to announce the official launch of [[m:The_Million_Wiki_Project|The Million Wiki Project!]]
[[File:Million Wiki Logo - Colored.svg|200px|right]]
Our mission is to enrich Wikimedia projects with high-quality and diverse content related to the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region. This initiative focuses on creating new articles, multimedia, structured data, and more, covering topics from MENA countries, communities, and diaspora worldwide.

'''Who Can Participate?'''&lt;br&gt;
All registered Wikimedians are welcome to join! Whether you're an individual contributor or part of an organization, your support is valuable. We encourage content creation in any of the six official UN languages (Arabic, English, French, Russian, Spanish, and soon Chinese).

'''What Kind of Content Are We Looking For?'''

* New Wikipedia articles focused on MENA topics
* Multimedia contributions on Wikimedia Commons (photos, videos)
* Structured data for Wikidata
* Language entries on Wiktionary
* Public domain texts on Wikisource

Note: Make sure your content follows local Wikimedia guidelines and licensing policies, including Freedom of Panorama for media files.

Join us in bridging content gaps and showcasing the richness of the MENA region on Wikimedia platforms! &lt;br&gt;
Stay tuned for more updates and participation guidelines. [[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 09:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== New texts list ==

Does a work count as &quot;complete&quot; for the purposes of the new texts list if the book has an index which has not been transcribed nor transcluded ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:56, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
: No. There have been multiple discussions, notably at [[Template talk:New texts]], where a consensus emerged that a work must be proofread and transcluded (but that there was not a need for validation). If you find an unproofread/untranscluded work, you can remove it.
: Sometimes sub-works that are works in their own right without the others (such a play in a collection of plays) also get listed on new text; for such works, it looks like the pratice is to only require that their part of the index be proofread and transcluded. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Radio Times ==

Please join the discussion at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:35, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Beginner's guide to copyright missing a key issue ==

Please could someone add a bullet point to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] about what happens regarding the hosting of scans of works which are considered out-of-copyright by this Wikisource, but not by Wikimedia Commons (for example, where they are still in copyright in Europe, but not the US)? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:30, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

:That's not a copyright concern, but a compatibility concern, so it's covered at [[Help:Licensing compatibility]], which is linked from the bottom of the page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:55, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::It is a copyright concern, and is not about licensing.
::The page to which I referred is styled as a guide for ''Beginners'', and is where a beginner would reasonably look for such information. The page already discusses how other Wikimedia projects choose to respect non-United States copyright law, in contrast to this project, so the additional point under discussion is relevant there.
::Furthermore, the subject is not covered at Help:Licensing compatibility, which includes only one mention of Wikimedia Commons; and that in a section which does not touch on the issue I mention, but is in a section about discussions of the prohibition of &quot;no derivative&quot; clauses. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The &quot;Beginner's guide to copyright&quot; is about copyright itself.  Where our files are stored is not an issue of copyright law.  The Licensing compatibility covers which items are allowed to be hosted here, which ''is'' affected by copyright status, but copyright is ''not'' the only concern, there are other licensing issues that affect what can be hosted here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:37, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Whether a file is stored locally rather than on Commons if often decided ''solely'' on it's copyright status, which is in turn wholly a factor of copyright law.
::::Again: the licensing compatability page does not mention this issue ''at all''.
::::Again: this is not a matter of ''licensing''. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So then, you're looking for [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]]?  Again, where to upload a file may be ''affected'' by the copyright status of the work, but it's not a part of copyright law. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:26, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, I am not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:31, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::This is the page that says: &quot;Usually, the DjVu or PDF file should be uploaded directly to Wikimedia Commons (one of Wikisource's sister sites that holds images and files for general use).  However, Commons chooses to respect the copyright laws of the home country of any work, which Wikisource does not.  In cases where non-United States publications are in the public domain in the United States but not in their home countries, they should be uploaded directly to Wikisource instead.  This method is the same as the method to upload and add images.&quot;  Is that not what you are asking about? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:38, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::No. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:43, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Can you please clarify then? Because this looks to me to be exactly what you were asking about at the start of this thread. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

=== Clarity of Help page ===
User:Pigsonthewing has made [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3ABeginner%27s_guide_to_copyright&amp;oldid=prev&amp;diff=15092053 this change] to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]], with the comment &quot;This is not tangent; it relates directly to the page's pre-existing point about projects &quot;choose to respect non-United States copyright law. English Wikisource does not&quot; and hinges directly on the copyright status of works concerned&quot;

My concern is that this inserts a second tangential issue into a set of paragraphs explaining copyright law.

The text looks like this with the added text in '''bold''':

{{blockquote|
; Non-United States publications
The rules about non-United States publications can get complicated.

Some works may be in the public domain in the United States even if they are still under copyright in their home countries '''(these works should be uploaded directly to Wikisource, not Wikimedia Commons)'''. Other works may be in the public domain in their home countries but still under copyright in the United States '''(these works are not eligible for inclusion on this Wikisource'''.

For example, the last collection of Sherlock Holmes stories, ''[[The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes]]'', was published in 1927
}}

The text is concerned with the copyright status of works, not with the uploading of files.  The added text is concerned with the uploading of files, which is discussed on the page [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]], which has a section devoted to the uploading of source files.

I believe the additions to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] are intrusive, because they insert a second topic into a paragraph that is already about a complicated topic.  I also believe they are superfluous, because we already have a Beginner's guide page that explains where to upload files. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:03, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-22 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* A community-wide discussion about a very delicate issue for the development of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]] is now open on Meta: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. The discussion is open until June 12 at [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]], and every opinion is welcomed. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

'''Updates for editors'''
* Since last week, on all wikis except [[phab:T388604|the largest 20]], people using the mobile visual editor will have [[phab:T385851|additional tools in the menu bar]], accessed using the new &lt;code&gt;+&lt;/code&gt; toolbar button. To start, the new menu will include options to add: citations, hieroglyphs, and code blocks. Deployment to the remaining wikis is [[phab:T388605|scheduled]] to happen in June.
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexist|#ifexist]]&lt;/code&gt; parser function will no longer register a link to its target page. This will improve the usefulness of [[{{#special:WantedPages}}]], which will eventually only list pages that are the target of an actual red link. This change will happen gradually as the source pages are updated. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T14019]
* This week, the Moderator Tools team will launch [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], starting at Indonesian Wikipedia. This new filter highlights edits that are likely to be reverted. The goal is to help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic edits. Other wikis will benefit from this filter in the future.
* Upon clicking an empty search bar, logged-out users will see suggestions of articles for further reading. The feature will be available on both desktop and mobile. Readers of Catalan, Hebrew, and Italian Wikipedias and some sister projects will receive the change between May 21 and mid-June. Readers of other wikis will receive the change later. The goal is to encourage users to read the wikis more. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Reading/Web/Content Discovery Experiments/Search Suggestions|Learn more]].
* Some users of the Wikipedia Android app can use a new feature for readers, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Apps/Team/Android/TrivaGame|WikiGames]], a daily trivia game based on real historical events. The release has started as an A/B test, available to 50% of users in the following languages: English, French, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, and Turkish.
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Newsletter|Newsletter extension]] that is available on MediaWiki.org allows the creation of [[mw:Special:Newsletters|various newsletters]] for global users. The extension can now publish new issues as section links on an existing page, instead of requiring a new page for each issue. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T393844]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:32}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:32|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* The previously deprecated &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Ipblocks table|ipblocks]]&lt;/code&gt; views in [[wikitech:Help:Wiki Replicas|Wiki Replicas]] will be removed in the beginning of June. Users are encouraged to query the new &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block table|block]]&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block target table|block_target]]&lt;/code&gt; views instead.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.3|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects|Wikidata and Sister Projects]] is a multi-day online event that will focus on how Wikidata is integrated to Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. The event runs from May 29 – June 1. You can [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects#Sessions|read the Program schedule]] and [[d:Special:RegisterForEvent/1291|register]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 20:04, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:UOzurumba (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28788673 --&gt;

== Works as a header ==

Is &quot;Works&quot; by itself as a header in Portals meant to be read as &quot;Works by&quot; or &quot;Works about&quot;? I see it mostly used to mean &quot;Works by&quot; when I see it in Author space and it is separated into &quot;Works by&quot; and &quot;Works about&quot; when the two exist. That is why it looks odd in location Portal space as in [[Portal:Westbrookville, New York]]. IT looks like it the works were written by the location. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 03:15, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: I replaced the L2 &quot;Works about ...&quot; to &quot;Works&quot; to keep it consistent with what's done on most other portal entries on the site. &quot;Works&quot; here means &quot;Works about&quot;. However, as of right now there appears to be no official standard for which header to use. [[Wikisource:Portal guidelines]] and [[Help:Portals]] say nothing about a &quot;Works&quot; section or &quot;Works about&quot; section.
: If &quot;Works&quot; sections should be changed to &quot;Works about&quot; by some informal vote here, then it's probably best to make it an official policy. We should consider also using bots to keep up with the maintenance that would be required to standardize all portal L2s one way or the other.
: Wikisource lacking structure is a massive problem here IMO, since for example Wiktionary has their quite detailed &quot;[[wikt:WT:ELE|Entry layout explained]]&quot; policy page, while the typical Wikisource culture is just to sorta do whatever we want in most areas that could be given a ruleset. This makes things like parsing our content especially difficult, for example. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:06, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::However, there are a number of portals where &quot;works by&quot; is applicable - government departments, for example. 
::If we want to be consistent, I think it would be best to have the same policy for both Authors and Portals. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:39, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That would not make sense for Portals unless they are People Portals.  We would never have &quot;Works by Philosophy&quot; as a header.  And on any larger Portal, it also makes no sense to have a &quot;Works about&quot; header, since potentially everything on the Portal is about the subject of the Portal.  But there are also Portals where the content is '''neither''' by nor about; for example [[Portal:French literature]], where the works ''are'' French literature, and not work written by French literature, nor works about French literature. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:44, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Red link in Monthly Challenge ==

There is a red link in the monthly challenge for [[Author:Department of Defense]] - I understand that author page should not be created. Should that link instead to [[Portal:United States Department of Defense]] ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:42, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

:Yes. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:45, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::Please could somebody make that change - the work is &quot;United States – Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967&quot;. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:40, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::: {{done}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Cheers. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees 2025 Selection &amp; Call for Questions ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
:''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement|{{int:interlanguage-link-mul}}]] • [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&amp;group=page-{{urlencode:Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement}}&amp;language=&amp;action=page&amp;filter= {{int:please-translate}}]''

Dear all,

This year, the term of 2 (two) Community- and Affiliate-selected Trustees on the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees will come to an end [1]. The Board invites the whole movement to participate in this year’s selection process and vote to fill those seats.

The Elections Committee will oversee this process with support from Foundation staff [2]. The Governance Committee, composed of trustees who are not candidates in the 2025 community-and-affiliate-selected trustee selection process (Raju Narisetti, Shani Evenstein Sigalov, Lorenzo Losa, Kathy Collins, Victoria Doronina and Esra’a Al Shafei) [3], is tasked with providing Board oversight for the 2025 trustee selection process and for keeping the Board informed. More details on the roles of the Elections Committee, Board, and staff are here [4].

Here are the key planned dates:

* May 22 – June 5: Announcement (this communication) and call for questions period [6]
* June 17 – July 1, 2025: Call for candidates
* July 2025: If needed, affiliates vote to shortlist candidates if more than 10 apply [5]
* August 2025: Campaign period
* August – September 2025: Two-week community voting period
* October – November 2025: Background check of selected candidates
* Board’s Meeting in December 2025: New trustees seated

Learn more about the 2025 selection process - including the detailed timeline, the candidacy process, the campaign rules, and the voter eligibility criteria - on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025|[link]]].

'''Call for Questions'''

In each selection process, the community has the opportunity to submit questions for the Board of Trustees candidates to answer. The Election Committee selects questions from the list developed by the community for the candidates to answer. Candidates must answer all the required questions in the application in order to be eligible; otherwise their application will be disqualified. This year, the Election Committee will select 5 questions for the candidates to answer. The selected questions may be a combination of what’s been submitted from the community, if they’re alike or related. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates|[link]]]

'''Election Volunteers'''

Another way to be involved with the 2025 selection process is to be an Election Volunteer. Election Volunteers are a bridge between the Elections Committee and their respective community. They help ensure their community is represented and mobilize them to vote. Learn more about the program and how to join on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Election_volunteers|[link].]]

Thank you!

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2022/Results

[2] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Committee:Elections_Committee_Charter

[3] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Committee_Membership,_December_2024

[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections_committee/Roles

[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/FAQ

[6] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates

Best regards,

Victoria Doronina

Board Liaison to the Elections Committee

Governance Committee&lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 03:08, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:RamzyM (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=28618011 --&gt;

== We are looking for a pilot for our new feature, Favourite Templates ==

Hello everyone! [[meta:Community Tech|Community Tech]] are building a new feature, called [[metawiki:Community_Wishlist/Focus_areas/Template_recall_and_discovery|Favourite Templates]], that will provide a better way for new and experienced contributors to recall and discover templates via the template dialog, that works with both VisualEditor and wikitext editor. We hope this will increase dialog usage and the number of templates added.

Since 2013, experienced volunteers have asked for a more intuitive template selector, exposing popular or most-used templates on the template dialog. At this stage of work, we are focusing on allowing users to put templates in a “favourite” list, so that their reuse will be easier. At a later stage, we will focus on helping users discover or find templates.

We are looking for potential additional testers for Favourite Templates, and we thought you might be interested in trying it out. If so, please let us know if it is the case, we would be happy to set up a pilot. So far, the feature has been deployed successfully on Polish and Arabic Wikipedia, and we’re currently in talks with other projects for expanding the pilot phase.

In addition, we’d love to hear your feedback and ideas for helping people find and insert templates. Some ideas we’ve identified are searching or browsing templates by category, or showing the number of times a template has been transcluded.

Of course, we are ready to answer your questions and to give you all the information you need. Thanks in advance!

—[[User:SWilson (WMF)|SWilson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SWilson (WMF)|talk]]) 05:23, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== DTIC file - Colors in Terrain ==


Is this PD-US-Gov?

https://archive.org/details/DTIC_ADA277204/page/n3/mode/2up

If so I'd like to put it on Wikisource. In addition it would be appreciated if someone with expertise could advise on how to reconstruct the XYZ values from the xy and luminance factors given.  This is so I can make used of the dataset (with citation) in respect of other projects. (I would of course be happy with a relevant color chart being constructed as a semi-formal academic paper over on Wikiversity.)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:52, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think, unfortunately, it is not PD-US-Gov. I don't believe US Gov contractors count as federal employees for the purpose of copyright law, and the [https://www.acquisition.gov/far/27.404-3 Federal Acquisition Regulation 27.404-3] specifically outlines that contractor producers of scientific and technical reports have blanket permission to reassert copyright on their research. That same regulation notes that the free unlimited distribution license which is noted on the document is just to the US Gov; I don't believe the public can tap into that license to redistribute.
:Perhaps someone with more US Gov works experience can chime in though. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:13, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

: Bother. Looks like I'll have to find the original journal articles directly then. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:38, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
: The source dataset seems to be a 1940's translation published in Canada of a 1943 Russian language work, This gets interesting. Can someone dig a little deeper? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Have we lost some Validated Indexes? ==

On 11 Sept. 2024 I updated [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] with our 6500th completed index. I just went to check on progress to the next milestone of 7000 only to discover that there are only 5284 in [[:Category:Index Validated]]. How and when did we lose over 1500 validated Indexes? [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:19, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
: I place my bet on the index lua error from two months and a half ago. We have ~12k indexes that just don't have ''any'' categories (out of 35583 total indexes). I think some of those affected by the bug had all their Page:s already transcluded, and so the Page:s didn't count as orphan and we didn't find them yet. The categorylink table must just have not been updated. Confirmation of this: The first thus uncategorised index reported when I queried was [[Index:! Explosive objects in War in Ukraine, 2022 (01).jpg]]. It had page_links_updated set to 20250311190213, which is 11 march, the date of the lua index error. On a null edit, it disappeared from the list. We probably ought to get 'round to null-editing all these indexes. I'm really busy these days but I could patch up some code next week. 12k is not that much. If we say one null edit/min that makes 12k minutes, or 200 hours, or just over a week. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:07, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (FYI: the complete list is [https://quarry.wmcloud.org/query/94236 here]. To refresh (you need to have forked) just re-submit. Replag aside, should update instantaneously.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:24, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Hadn't thought of that, despite the fact that I've been null-editing Indexes via LonelyPages every three days. I'm part way through G with another update due this evening (my time). Any Index that is not pdf or djvu has been skipped over. Where there are Pages without an Index, I've left them for investigation later. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 17:58, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Any specific reason for skipping non-pdf/djvu indexes? Normally they should work like others. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:01, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Because the listing in LonelyPages is the Page namespace and the link to the Index doesn't appear as a tab in the same way. Thus easier to ignore at present and then deal with as a group later. I much prefer dealing with a single workflow at a time. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::By the way - the orphaned pages listing was actually updated yesterday - it starts again on the first of the month,
::::::I have been trying to reduce the main pages on the orphaned pages list. A number of those have been works transcluded but affected by the index lua error. (And so not linked from anywhere else). I have tried adding other links as well. Of course, this means that main pages affected by the lua error do not show there if they already were linked from elsewhere. --
::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::: @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] and [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] : the query I linked to above ''does'' give an exhaustive list, transclusion or no transclusion, exploiting the fact that broken indexes lost their categories. It also gives the indexes not the pages, so there's no trouble of reaching the index from the pages. If you want, I can reasonably easily get the list into a wikipage with links (as opposed to the quarry result of just page names). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:37, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I've made a list at [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]]. Having already dealt with some, it's reduced in size by ca. 500 from the initial. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:21, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: Would you mind other editors editing that page? So we can remove those that are done and keep track of where we're at. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:41, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I've forked the query to select .djvu indexes (&lt;code&gt;page_title like '%.djvu'&lt;/code&gt;). 3600 are remaining. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 10:52, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::: Welp, we do also have to do the PDFs. It's not a good thing, but many indexes are done PDF. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:54, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I have no problems with other editors editing the page. Keeping track and not duplicating effort is always good. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 22:33, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All DjVu indexes done. The page is updated. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All jpg, jpeg, webm indexes done. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All not .pdf indexes done (6,818). [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]] updated. Now 5,641 pages in Category:Index Validated • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The proposed query has to be modified, ~2000 indexes having categories other than &quot;Index:...&quot;.
::::::::::::I have used as a jointure: 
:::::::::::::&lt;code&gt;and page_id not in ( select cl_from  from categorylinks   where cl_to like 'Index%' )&lt;/code&gt;
::::::::::::to get a new list. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:29, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: &lt;code&gt; AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM categorylinks WHERE cl_from = page_id AND cl_to LIKE 'Index%')&lt;/code&gt; is probably faster. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: As a side note, I found why these indexes have some of their cats but not all: the categories that are added manually are actually out of the template; so when the template broke, they only lost the categories that relied on it; which means the status cats &amp;co, but not the manual ones. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:56, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::All Indexes in the second list are now null-edited and [[:Category:Index Validated]] is at 6953, which approximately what I was expecting to see. There are only 141 in the Validated category that need to have their transclusion status checked. Thanks to {{ping|M-le-mot-dit}} for the assistance on getting all the Indexes null-edited so quickly. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:42, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:The milestone of 7000 Validated indexes was reached yesterday. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 07:57, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (I think it's [[Index:Skyes Picot, The Manchester Guardian, Monday, November 26, 1917, p5.jpg]].) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The Category contains a template ({{tl|Proofreadpage_index_template/testcases}}), so it may be [[Index:The President's Proclamation (Proctor, 1963).jpg]]. Quarry gives 7004 indexes. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Indeed, good catch! :) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:13, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::It was indeed The President's Proclamation. [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] has been updated. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-23 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is now available on all Wikimedia wikis. Editors can use this new extension to create interactive data visualizations like bar, line, area, and pie charts. Charts are designed to replace many of the uses of the legacy [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Graph|Graph extension]].

'''Updates for editors'''
* It is now easier to configure automatic citations for your wiki within the visual editor's [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Citoid/Enabling Citoid on your wiki|citation generator]]. Administrators can now set a default template by using the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;_default&lt;/code&gt; key in the local &lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[MediaWiki:Citoid-template-type-map.json]]&lt;/bdi&gt; page ([[mw:Special:Diff/6969653/7646386|example diff]]). Setting this default will also help to future-proof your existing configurations when [[phab:T347823|new item types]] are added in the future. You can still set templates for individual item types as they will be preferred to the default template. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384709]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:20}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:20|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Starting the week of June 2, bots logging in using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=clientlogin&lt;/code&gt; will fail more often. This is because of stronger protections against suspicious logins. Bots using [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Bot passwords|bot passwords]] or using a loginless authentication method such as [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/OAuth/Owner-only consumers|OAuth]] are not affected. If your bot is not using one of those, you should update it; using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; without a bot password was deprecated [[listarchive:list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/3EEMN7VQX5G7WMQI5K2GP5JC2336DPTD/|in 2016]]. For most bots, this only requires changing what password the bot uses. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T395205]
* From this week, Wikimedia wikis will allow ES2017 features in JavaScript code for official code, gadgets, and user scripts. The most visible feature of ES2017 is &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;code&gt;async&lt;/code&gt;/&lt;code&gt;await&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/bdi&gt; syntax, allowing for easier-to-read code. Until this week, the platform only allowed up to ES2016, and a few months before that, up to ES2015. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T381537]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.4|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* Scholarship applications to participate in the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025|GLAM Wiki Conference 2025]] are now open. The conference will take place from 30 October to 1 November, in Lisbon, Portugal. GLAM contributors who lack the means to support their participation can [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025/Scholarships|apply here]]. Scholarship applications close on June 7th.

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 23:54, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
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== Copyright status of a work. ==

This is listed as public domain on Hathi:-
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31210024780379&amp;seq=15

However, it contains apparenty reprints of papers published in other works, which may need additional evalaution.

The author of the papers seems to have been an active Employee at the NBS (later NIST), So can someone make a determination as to this work's potential inclusion in Wikisource, given that the works itself is Federal?. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:00, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}} I've sent the NIST an email, hopefully they reply. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:54, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: The concern is that some of the papers appear to be published in Journals, which given the dates would have had active registrations, (even if the individual author concerned didn't make individual periodical ones.). [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:05, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}}
:This is the response from the NIST:
:&quot;Hi,
:Generally, official writings by federal employees are not subject to copyright protection within the United States (a narrow exception to this policy exists in the case of Standard Reference Data published under the provisions of the Standard Reference Data Act (Public Law 90-396). The Act permits NIST to copyright Standard Reference Data.  Click here for more information.)  However, the government may be able to assert copyright in countries other than the United States.  When official writings by NIST employees, except those covered under the Standard Reference Data Act, are submitted to a non-NIST publication, a statement should be included indicating that the material is not subject to copyright protection within the United States. If you are asked to sign a publication permission form, you should have it reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST prior to signing.  Some journals will accept our copyright form. (In fact, some journals will request this copyright form.) (External co-authors may be asked to sign an agreement transferring their copyright to the publisher, which they may choose to do.)
:Sample statement: Official contribution of the National Institute of Standards and Technology; not subject to copyright in the United States.
:Note that in most instances NIST Research Associates could assert copyright but may have agreed not to assert US copyright in their work done at NIST when they signed their NIST Associate’s Agreement. Whether or not to include the ‘not subject to copyright in the United States’ statement on manuscripts jointly authored by federal NIST employees and NIST Associates is a factual matter to be determined when the publication is drafted.
:If you are asked to sign a publisher’s agreement for your publication that agreement must first be reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.
:If you encounter any problems with a publisher, or need any help, contact the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.&quot;
:I think this is a yes, thoughts? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 11:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: Hmm, so that says NIST Research Associate works without other notices, are possibles. However, in respect of this specifc collection, some of the later articles are from Journals with their own copyrights and thus can't be included (because of the Journal Copyright, rather than the contributors.). On that basis, the original papers will have to be tracked down and evaluated on a paper by paper basis. 
:BTW for a Government agency, that response is suprisingly clear for our purposes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Colour vs b/w image? ==

Hi, I was finding the image for [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Taming_Liquid_Hydrogen_The_Centaur_Upper_Stage_Rocket.pdf/58]. For this text, instead of extracting from the low quality PDF, since they are all catalogued NASA images, I have just looked up the image IDs and downloaded them directly from the NASA/DVIDS website. However, for this specific page, the image is black and white, but I found a high-quality colour version at [https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/historic-facilities/rocket-engine-test-facility/retf-staff/]. What should I do? Use the colour version as is or convert it to black/white first? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:29, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: My 2¢ would be convert it to black &amp; white, as that's what the source has. The low-quality is very probably due to bad scanning. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 22:15, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== 'Indexes validated in [month]' category ==

Why does [[Index:Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf]] appear in [[:Category:Indexes validated in June 2025]], yet [[Index:Reference to some of the works executed in stained glass - William Raphael Eginton.pdf]] does not? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:46, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

:I expect it is because the former has an  entry in the box &quot;Validation date&quot; and the latter has that box blank. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:59, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]], @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] It is not longer blank now! But yes, you do have to manually fill in the validation date box, by editing the index page. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:01, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. (Though the index page was amended to show all validated in May.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:18, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:::[https://petscan.wmcloud.org/?psid=35284922 Petscan] lists 136 indexes in the above situation. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::I've sorted 96 of them, but need to call it a night. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 10:14, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Monthly Challenge colors on dark mode ==

For some reason the colors for the to fix header and the to proofread headers are swapped on dark mode. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:34, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: There where some muck-ups in the templates between the statuses (essentially, the classes were swapped and so the colors were swapped again to make it right). Caused some confusion when adding dark mode compat. Should be solved. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::Sorry for the mess up and thanks for the fix by the way! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Thinking REALLY big.. ==

Back in 2020, Fae mirrored PDF's of copyright records on IA to Commons.

Is there a contributor here that is willing to set up Index: here for post 1950's volumes?  

The thought was that it might be a way of finding works that might expire in the next few years, and if the renewals were looked into 
post 1930(rolling) volumes that might also be in scope for the period 1940 to 1950.  Other publications note a Fourth Series which continued to 1982(?) but those entries should already be in the online system. 

&quot;Mars-shot&quot; project, but worth it, if the transcription generated can be fed back into Wikidata as well.  This wouldn't be a project I'd focus on personally, my watchlist is already at 'life's work' length, but I felt this was something to be worked out. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Get IIIF working again. ==
Previously, inductiveload had a script ([[User:Inductiveload/jump_to_file]]) which helped improve the scans presented, by pulling them directly from hathi or IA, rather than  using the lower quality PDF present on Wikisource. 

Due to changes at IA ( URL in the script needs updating), this script stopped functioning.  Can someone PLEASE look into getting this working again, as it greatly assists in the transcription of works, where the PDF quality is exceptionally poor due to over compression or otherwise?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:04, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: As I already told you, the issue is with a line that has to be changed in the toolforge tool's code. See [[phab:T356227|T356227]]. This requires usurpation of the tool (given IL is gone at least for now); which is not easy to get. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:30, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: Thank you. So what could be a useful project is effectively stalled, because of 3 letters in old code, which can't be easily updated because the tool maintainer is absent. {{ping|Sohom Datta}} Another contributor attempted to fix this by patching the url on the Wikisource, but I couldn't get that technique to work.  The endpoint that the toolforge script uses now gives Error 500 suggesting it wasn't a priority to repair or was migrated.)..  As detailed in the phabricator ticket it's 4 characters in a single file that need changing.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:58, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: The project I refer to is above. a Marshsot project on the Catalog of Copyright Entries. (Yes I has strait jacket to hand! :lol:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:39, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

When 5 years after a massive upload, you find it isn't in a good quality:(.. 

I'm going to need some time to consider if I even attempt to work with this, and I am wondering if it's worth it, unless the PDF quality issue is resolved. Others here are working on making the hi-resimage loader work again, provided of course the endpoint it uses remains available. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 17:12, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-24 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product|Trust and Safety Product team]] is finalizing work needed to roll out [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|temporary accounts]] on large Wikipedias later this month. The team has worked with stewards and other users with extended rights to predict and address many use cases that may arise on larger wikis, so that community members can continue to effectively moderate and patrol temporary accounts. This will be the second of three phases of deployment – the last one will take place in September at the earliest. For more information about the recent developments on the project, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts/Updates|see this update]]. If you have any comments or questions, write on the [[mw:Talk:Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|talk page]], and [[m:Event:CEE Catch up Nr. 10 (June 2025)|join a CEE Catch Up]] this Tuesday.

'''Updates for editors'''
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]] The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Watchlist expiry|watchlist expiry]] feature allows editors to watch pages for a limited period of time. After that period, the page is automatically removed from your watchlist. Starting this week, you can set a preference for the default period of time to watch pages. The [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist-pageswatchlist|preferences]] also allow you to set different default watch periods for editing existing pages, pages you create, and when using rollback. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T265716]
[[File:Talk pages default look (April 2023).jpg|thumb|alt=Screenshot of the visual improvements made on talk pages|Example of a talk page with the new design, in French.]]
* The appearance of talk pages will change at almost all Wikipedias ([[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/19|some]] have already received this design change, [[phab:T379264|a few]] will get these changes later). You can read details about the changes [[diffblog:2024/05/02/making-talk-pages-better-for-everyone/|on ''Diff'']]. It is possible to opt out of these changes [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion|in user preferences]] (&quot;{{int:discussiontools-preference-visualenhancements}}&quot;). [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T319146][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T392121]
* Users with specific extended rights (including administrators, bureaucrats, checkusers, oversighters, and stewards) can now have IP addresses of all temporary accounts [[phab:T358853|revealed automatically]] during time-limited periods where they need to combat high-speed account-hopping vandalism. This feature was requested by stewards. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T386492]
* This week, the Moderator Tools and Machine Learning teams will continue the rollout of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], releasing it to several more Wikipedias. This filter utilizes the Revert Risk model, which was created by the Research team, to highlight edits that are likely to be reverted and help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic contributions. The feature will be rolled out to the following Wikipedias: {{int:project-localized-name-afwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bnwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-cywiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-hawwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-iswiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-kkwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-simplewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-trwiki/en}}. The rollout will continue in the coming weeks to include [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|the rest of the Wikipedias in this project]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T391964]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* AbuseFilter editors active on Meta-Wiki and large Wikipedias are kindly asked to update AbuseFilter to make it compatible with temporary accounts. A link to the instructions and the private lists of filters needing verification are [[phab:T369611|available on Phabricator]].
* Lua modules now have access to the name of a page's associated thumbnail image, and on [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/operations/mediawiki-config/+/2e4ab14aa15bb95568f9c07dd777065901eb2126/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php#10849 some wikis] to the WikiProject assessment information. This is possible using two new properties on [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#added-by-extensions|mw.title objects]], named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageImage&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageAssessments&lt;/code&gt;. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T131911][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T380122]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.5|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 01:16, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28846858 --&gt;
:NOTE: The default watchlist expiry time feature isn't available on here and it isn't available on enwiki or commons either. It ''is'' available on mediawikiwiki though, and I'm not sure why. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: See [[wikitech:Deployment train#Groups]]. In a nutshell: mediawiki updates are progressively rolled out in groups; we're in group 2, so we get them on wednesdays; as opposed to mediawikiwiki being in group 1 (tuesday) and enwiki being in group 3 (thursday). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you for explaining! [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 16:55, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family (archive.org)]] ==

This states that the source was ftp://ia340915.us.archive.org/1/items/LovecraftInPdfFormat/a_jermyn.pdf - trying that link did not work for me, and trying to find this item on Internet Archive gave me nothing. Anyone have any ideas where this source might be ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: That link uses the FTP protocol. Switching to http or https gives a 500 error.
: It also is a link to the direct file as opposed to the IA item.
: However, I can't find any item with such a name either.
: Possibly it was pulled out of IA's collections, but that would seem strange (pre-1930 publication). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. Wikipedia indicates that the story was only published under that title in 1986, so I assume that it was taken from a later collection. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:20, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Ah, that would explain IA pulling it out of their collections. In the last few months they've pulled out a lot of stuff which was plausibly PD (probably afraid of getting sued to death). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:25, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::::And, of course, shows a danger in not uploading the scan to Commons or here.
::::We now have a scan-backed copy of the story from the original Weird Tales printing, and a Weird Tales reprint available for transcription. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Bayonne Times need a link to Wikidata ==

Can someone link The Bayonne Times here at Wikisource to Wikidata Q118610753. Usually a bot does this, so if you see an error, let me know what I did wrong. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 14:58, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}}. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 15:11, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: (Heads up - the bot runs weekly, on saturday evenings UTC. So for this page, which was linked yesterday on the 9th, it would have done it next sat (the 14th).) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== How to improve this table ==

Hi, I made a table at [[Page:A History Of Mathematical Notations Vol I (1928).djvu/35]]. Whilst it works, it probably is quite a bodge solution and probably isn't compatible with mobile. Could anyone give some ideas as to how to improve it? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 17:48, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Matrix|Matrix]] I am not sure if all tables can be made safe for mobile, so I am not sure exactly what to recommend. If you concern is having a table altogether, you could try individual lines of text, with [[:Template:Phantom]] to align the individual terms (alignment would not be preserved on all screens, but it would stop the font size shrinking when viewed in small windows, as presently). Also, very minor, but why call &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Right|}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; on cell contents, when you can apply &lt;nowiki&gt;{{ts|ar}}|&lt;/nowiki&gt;? Maybe it is identical, but it just seemed a little odd. P.S. There is also a quotation mark missing on the last 8 on the page, but I am not sure what the 8 is/isn't supposed to be aligned with (the 1/7th, and the 5,2,1 look like they are in slightly different columns). Up to you where you place it. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Template:Id ==

I have no idea why this template is the ''number one'' spot on [[Special:WantedTemplates]] (all such links are in the Page namespace). My guess is that it is somehow being transcluded by means of a different, broken template. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:12, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:It appears to be something to do with {{tl|float left}} after ShakespeareFan00's last fiddle. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: Due to a typo in [[Special:PermaLink/15019930]], {{tl|float left}} briefly called {{tl|id}} instead of using {{code|{{{id}}}}}. By the time it was corrected, it got the time to spread out it these 3k-ish pages. Discussed this with them back in April; we were hoping that MW would realise and purge pagelinks. Manifestly not. I'd say ignore it? Except if someone fells like going on a null-editing spree again. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:54, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Update: either it was the waiting, or the purging the template, or someone purging all the pages *shrug*, but now the links to {{tl|id}} have disappeared from whatlinkshere. I think [[Special:Wantedtemplates]] will reflect that in a few days' time. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Jersey Journal disconnected from Wikidata ==

You can just restore the deletion at Q7743126. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 20:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{done}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 13:28, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Cabin at the Trail's End ==

There are two indexes [[Index:Cabin at the Trail's End (IA cabinattrailsend0000sheb).pdf]] where some pages have been created and [[Index:The Cabin at the Trail's End.djvu]] where, apparantly, the OCR is a page off. Which to keep ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
: Given that a) OCR off by a page is a fixable problem; b) pdfs have more bugs; c) the djvu's OCR is slightly better than the pdf's; my 2¢ are take the djvu.
: I have taken the liberty of realigning the OCR of the djvu. (One of the good sides of djvus is that the hidden text can be easily extracted, tweaked and readded.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nyxxy1q00z6wcetuvgeji43ywxjksmc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132518</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:01:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MediaWiki message delivery</username>
        <id>970150</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Vote now in the 2025 U4C Election */ new section</comment>
      <origin>15132518</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="112445" sha1="gny0ke1o6nvji3uvrm2xrxf9h37mg2j" xml:space="preserve">{{process header
 | title    = Scriptorium 
 | section  =
 | previous = [[Wikisource:Index/Community|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives|Archives]]
 | shortcut = [[WS:S]]&lt;br/&gt;[[WS:SCRIPTORIUM]]
 | notes    = The '''[[wikt:scriptorium|Scriptorium]]''' is Wikisource's community discussion page. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[{{fullurl:Wikisource:Scriptorium|action=edit&amp;section=new start}} a new one]&lt;/span&gt;; please see '''[[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]'''.

The [[Wikisource:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' noticeboard]] can be used where appropriate. Some announcements and newsletters are subscribed to [[/Announcements/]].

Project members can often be found in the [[liberachat:wikisource|#wikisource]] IRC channel [https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat?channel=#wikisource webclient]. For discussion related to the entire project (not just the English chapter), please discuss at the [[:mul:Scriptorium|multilingual Wikisource]]. There are currently {{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}} [[Special:ActiveUsers|active users]] here.
{{/Navigation}}
}}
{{autoarchive resolved section
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[[Category:Bots/Archival|Scriptorium ]]
[[Category:Wikisource|Scriptorium]]
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
&lt;!-- Interwiki links --&gt;
[[mul:Scriptorium]]
&lt;!-- Interwiki links --&gt;

= Announcements =

= Proposals =
== Overriding Vector 2022 paragraph spacing ==
Since the forced deployment in November 2024, and multiple discussions including [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-01#Paragraph_spacing], [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding V22 paragraph spacing|2]], [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Switching to the Vector 2022 skin: the final date|3]], and [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Deployment of Vector 2022|4]], the idea of overriding the excessive paragraph spacing from V22 was floated multiple times. V22 raised the 0.9em spacing between paragraphs to 1.5em, which broke content that expected text to have similar size across skins (notably but not only {{tl|overfloat image}}).

This proposal is therefore to add to [[MediaWiki:Gadget-Site.css]]:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.mw-body p {
    margin:0.4em 0 0.5em 0;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Technical notes:
* this should have neither false positives nor false negatives given that &lt;code&gt;.mw-body p&lt;/code&gt; is the exact same selector used by V22.
* if site.css is loaded before the skin css, then we can just add a &lt;code&gt;html &lt;/code&gt; at the start of the selector: will not change the selection (given everything's in an html), and will give it more specificity (0,1,2 vs 0,1,1).
* 0.4em 0 0.5em 0 is exactly how it was in V10.
* this may stop working one day whenever WMF decides to IDHT another change through; but so can the entire website, and at least we'll have a fix. If it stops working, we can easily remove it and go back to our current state of having broken content.
— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} as proposer. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}}, strongly. Thanks for starting the vote! --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:51, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:58, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:09, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

= Bot approval requests =
* See [[Wikisource:Bots]]  for information about applying for a bot status
* See [[Wikisource:Bot requests]] if you require an existing bot to undertake a task

==[[User:333Bot]]==
(See also [[#Thinking of an anti-linkrot bot]].)

For non-scan backed works, sometimes the original webpage disappears and we lose the source. This task would archive automatically sources in new mainspace/talk pages at the wayback machine, and add {{tl|wml}}.

To avoid archiving vandalism, it would only do this on pages older than a week. (It won't search beyond the 2000th created page.)

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. Source's at [[User:Alien333/test#Link archiving]].

The idea would be to run this daily. Test edits: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14252&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001840] and [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14251&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001919]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:59, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
: As nearly two weeks have passed without objections, I activated this task per [[WS:BOT]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:59, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The run is over. Before launching the cronjob I will change the code to prevent it from archiving links in mainspace works' content (there are few valid reasons for extlinks in works; but there are some). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:48, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Did that, started cronjob. Will run at 16h14 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Note: For the last few days, it was stopped by an IA error on a certain page. I have now made it not crash on IA errors. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:03, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

==[[User:333Bot]] 2==
(See also [[#Seeking feedback on bot task to tag untagged deletion nominations]] for details and discussion.)

Works proposed for deletion at [[WS:PD]] or &lt;s&gt;[[WS:PD]]&lt;/s&gt;&lt;ins&gt;[[WS:CV]]&lt;/ins&gt; should be accordingly tagged. Occasionally, people forget to tag them. This task would locate these and tag them.

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. The code's at [[User:Alien333/test#Nomination_tagging]]. It would run daily. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:WS:PD or WS:PD ? Aren't they the same ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:24, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, you're right. Got mixed up. Meant PD and CV. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Heads up: I started the cronjob. (No untagged nominations rn, so may do no edits.) Runs will occur at about 5h40 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:27, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

=Repairs (and moves)=

'''Designated for requests related to the repair of works (and scans of works) presented on Wikisource'''

See also [[Wikisource:Scan lab]]

== Explanatory Notes Indices ==
Please move the following indices to their new corresponding filename
* [[Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
[[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:42, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: Errr. Feel free to trout me, but I don't understand what you're asking for.
: As in, move which pages to which titles? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::* Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-16 qp).pdf
::* Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 (UKPGA 2003-31 qp).pdf
::* Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Defamation Act 2013 (UKPGA 2013-26 qp).pdf
::* Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Modern Slavery Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-30 qp).pdf
::* Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Live Music Act 2012 (UKPGA 2012-2 qp).pdf
::* Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 (UKPGA 2011-14 qp).pdf
::This is to match filename move at commons. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:29, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

= Other discussions =
== [[Contra-Props]] ==

This article was published in a British magazine in 1941; the author died in 1946. Would this be still in copyright ? Or PD ?

(This was the subject of a previous query here which got archived without being answered - [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2019-09#1941_UK_publication]]) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:51, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
: Looks copyrighted to me. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:31, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
: Unless there's some reason they count as a US work, all UK works were restored by the URAA. The few exceptions are either Crown Copyright or were published by authors who died before 1926.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:26, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - I have put it as apparant copyright violation - [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions#Contra-Props]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That page has now been deleted so this query can be closed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:48, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Manual indexing of news articles versus Automatic indexing of news articles ==

I want to convert [[Brooklyn Eagle]] to an automatic-index instead of the hand-curated index. The hand curated index looks pretty, but is always missing articles. We can have [[The Brooklyn Eagle]] as the pretty one. See how it is done at [[Jersey Journal]], scroll to the bottom and there is a link to the pretty hand-curated list, missing many articles. This is similar to how Commons does it, you have automatic index at Category:Foo, and hand curated one as Foo, that is always missing entries. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 17:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:More automated curation of Periodicals and Newspapers on this site in the future would in general be a good thing - there's a lot of good work being done across a lot of these works but the process of creating the main-space pages for them can get very tedious and repetitive. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose had to write janky programs to semi-automate their individual workflows for some of these works.
:Your idea of a distinction between '''The Somewhere Argus''' and '''Somewhere Argus''' is interesting (and as I'm not a big user of wikimedia, not something I've particularly noticed on that site), but it doesn't seem particularly intuitive to me that one should be a raw list and another a curated view (or which way round those should be, and it seems quite a big departure from how work is generally presented here. Is it done anywhere else on this site? In the past I've seen a lot of resistance to the same work being included in different main-space pages. 
:In terms of a curated view, that may be better done by creating a Portal for that work. For example, when I worked through the July-Dec 1914 volumes of [[Punch]], I created a summary of all of the books reviewed in that volume which I put here: [[Portal:Punch/Reviewed Books]], that wouldn't really have been appropriate to put in the main page. 
:Alternatively, what's stopping you from having a list of highlights and the automatic index linked from the same page? That's effectively what [[The New York Times]] does - some of the issues are highlighted (those for which enough work has been done for them to have a complete contents page) but for the rest, there are year-based automatic lists using the {{tl|header periodical}} template. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 09:56, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
:* You are right, &quot;Portal:Brooklyn Eagle&quot; would be best for the hand curated ones, we should standardize on that, and migrate older ones to that format. Currently there are six styles of indexes for magazines and newspapers. There were at least ten different styles before I tried to standardized them. I eliminated the ones that were experimental one-of-a-kind ones. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 19:25, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Don't we already have a standard format, as documented at [[Wikisource:Periodical guidelines]] ? —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:24, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:By the way, I fixed [[Jersey Journal]]. There shouldn't be two separate mainspace pages for the same work, so I deleted the one that was simply a dump of subpages, and replaced it with the properly structured list that was previously located at [[The Jersey Journal]].
:In general, the automatic subpage listing should only be used as a temporary stop-gap until a proper page listing can be created. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:31, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::To your original point though - if you can find a way to automatically list all subpages, whether or not they have already been created, and in the correct order they appear in the publication, then that would be amazing and definitely we'd all make extensive use of such a system. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:14, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
Automate portals, have them point to Main.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:50, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

==QuickSurveys==
Apparently some new “feature” has been forced upon us again. These are annoying pop-up boxes which really mess up the formatting, especially if whatever text at the top of the page is centered (as it often is). Can this be disabled by default for everyone? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:32, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Dropped a task ([[phab:T393436]]) to ask them to not barge into the content like this, but I don't have much hope.
: And no, this extension and its parameters are a wmf thing, so we can't really do anything on our own. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:I have no clue what you're talking about. Can you tell me the steps to reproduce this issue? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:49, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::I can see it on any page that I open (and it is very disturbing), so if you do not, you might have it disabled in your preferences. See also the screenshots uploaded to the above linked phabricator task. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I don't. I'm trying to figure out which settings the original person has to see why he sees it, but if you're seeing it also, that is odd to me. I'm not sure why anyone is seeing this. I'm not. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 12:19, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::In the preferences under the &quot;User profile&quot; tab there is a section &quot;QuickSurvey extension&quot; where the surveys can be set as hidden. Currently logged out users also do not see it, but if this feature stays, we can imo expect it will be used to display messages (e.g. pleas for funding) to them as well. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: These things are highly targetable and targeted, see [[mw:Extension:QuickSurveys]]. Probably you aren't counted as an active patroller here (and this precise survey is about patrolling tools). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:57, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just an example of what I am seeing: [https://phab.wmfusercontent.org/file/data/wvrcadows4ftokyz3lyg/PHID-FILE-udsgsisdj2hq2uuva46d/screenshot3jpg.jpg] --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:06, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
*Another awful example: [[Charter Granted by Queen Elizabeth to the East India Company]]. This time, the pop-up is within the delete template. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:59, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*: Well, it just barges into the first thing it finds. They don't appear to be actively paying attention to tasks, and I don't expect them to pay attention to user feedback either, so this probably won't be fixed for a good while. My two cents are go disable it in your settings.
*: At least we've got the comfort most users don't see it.... But of course they make whatever surveys they want targeting whoever they want, so it's not that unlikely that this will become a problem for everyone in the near future.
*: Aaaahh, deploying breaking changes with no discussion, no warning, no community opt-out, and without listening to feedback. Becoming a habit, isn't it? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:43, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::It's showing up for me too.  Once I disable it on one project, then I get it on another.  Those of us who regularly visit multiple projects are going to be the most annoyed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:50, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::: Did you check the global settings? Perhaps there you can opt-out for all projects. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::I don't even have the option of using the same skin globally. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:28, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::: That's weird. So like, when you go [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-rendering-skin here], you don't see a &quot;Skin&quot;, a checkbox on whether to make it a default setting, and radio buttons with the options? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:20, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Might I suggest the following solution? : &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#bodyContent .ext-quick-survey-panel {display:none;}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 00:57, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::There's a setting to always hide them; the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole (except through site css, but Xover is the only active intadmin and has shown much reticence to adding that kind of stuff (see [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding_V22_paragraph_spacing]])). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:18, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: If that is an issue, we can simply come to a consensus, as a community, that the QS system needs to be blocked, and direct him to make the appropriate changes reflecting that consensus. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 12:35, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:Yes, the reticence of one admin should not override community consensus, and Xover knows that as well as the rest of us :) (that being said, I think a proper proposal would be necessary to determine consensus for something like this) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:13, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::Is amending the user profile, as stated by Jan above, not a good enough solution ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:11, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::: From the technical standpoint, yes, changing site CSS is 99% sure to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:::As Alien333 said, the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole - and you can't do that with the user profile. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:00, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Second pair of eyes for unclear letter ==

At [[Page:Poems Hornblower.djvu/110]], the last letter of {{tqi|Draw with their very breath—the poisonous faith}} is not super clear. I think I see the beginning of the arch of an h going right from the vertical bar after the t, but I'd appreciate if someone could give a quick look and confirm or not. (Compare also the {{tqi|faith}} from {{tqi|The world's cold faith,}} a few lines above.) Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:51, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:I think your assessment is good.  &quot;poisonous faith&quot; works with &quot;inglorious views&quot; and the soul straying from a &quot;diviner walk&quot;.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 21:02, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
::I agree; scans of different copies of the same book show the same misprinting ([https://books.google.com/books?id=ox1kAAAAcAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 BL], [https://books.google.com/books?id=fCQOAAAAQAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 Bod]), but the start of the arch of the 'h' is just visible in all. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:40, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to both. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:16, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== FYI: Wikisource: Preserving the Past for the Future ==

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2025/05/13/wikisource-preserving-the-past-for-the-future/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
*Who is Nanteza Divine Gabriella? I don’t recognize the name. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:11, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:* [[User:DivineGaby]] [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:53, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

== Call for Candidates for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
The results of voting on the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement Guidelines and Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) Charter is [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Annual review/2025#Results|available on Meta-wiki]].

You may now [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025/Candidates|submit your candidacy to serve on the U4C]] through 29 May 2025 at 12:00 UTC. Information about [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|eligibility, process, and the timeline are on Meta-wiki]]. Voting on candidates will open on 1 June 2025 and run for two weeks, closing on 15 June 2025 at 12:00 UTC.

If you have any questions, you can ask on [[m:Talk:Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|the discussion page for the election]]. -- in cooperation with the U4C, &lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[m:User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[m:User_talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]])&lt;/bdi&gt; 22:07, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Keegan (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=28618011 --&gt;

== Billingual template with Welsh Parliament Acts ==

The formatting problems that @[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] complained about in [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] could be fixed by using the {{tl|Bilingual}} template, however this creates its own formatting problems which I have shown at [[Wikisource:Sandbox]]. Additionally, the page numbers don't match up because the page numbers go up every second page due to the welsh version of a page using the same page number as the corresponding english version. Does anyone know how to fix this. 

Additionally, could someone make a version of the Bilingual template that could be more useful for longer works such as [[Index:Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2023 (ASC 2023-3 kp).pdf]] so whoever ends up working on that doesn't have to use the template over 200 times in one page. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:33, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:Not sure about the code for this, but would it be possible to transclude multiple pages at once like [[Template:Side by side]] using the &lt;code&gt;&lt;pages&gt;&lt;/code&gt; syntax, but reset the display each page so that the first lines of each page line up? I'm sure there's some struggle with that preserving the indents using colons like appears when using [[Template:Bilingual]]... [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 21:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
::The current practice for bitexts like this, is to transclude the English here, and the alternate pages at the Wikisource for the other language.  The two can then be linked to each other in the notes section of the header.  There are some exceptions here, and you can see an example at [[Modern Czech Poetry/October sonnet]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The Welsh elements of [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] have been moved over to Welsh Wikisource, and the pages have been linked in Wikidata and mentioned in the notes section! [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:29, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[:File:Weird Tales Volume 13 Number 06 (1929-06).djvu]] ==

This was originally uploaded to Commons with pages that were still in copyright redacted. Those are now out of copyright. What is the best way to restore them ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:19, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:Upload a new version of the file over the top of what's there. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:52, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
: That's assuming that placeholders were left. If not, then we need to first shift the Page:s to give room for the added pages. I can do that; ping me if it's needed. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:15, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you both. Yes, on this one, there are blank pages where the text was redacted, so taht should work fine. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:03, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== HathiTrust ==

[[Help:Image extraction#HathiTrust]] no longer works me; when I try running it, I just get Error 403.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 08:27, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I haven't tried any programs myself, but there are a few image downloader programs for HathiTrust available on GitHub, [https://github.com/Addono/HathiTrust-downloader this one for example]. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of HathiTrust can vouch for a particular method. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:22, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Linking to Explanatory Notes for UK Legislation ==

@[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] @[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] I've seen 3 different ways of linking to Explanatory Notes currently seen at [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]], [[Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011]], and [[Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015]] and I feel like we should have some consistency with how we link to Explanatory Notes. How should we go about linking to Explanatory Notes. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:25, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I did Welsh as I did because the King's Printer version included a formal title page including the mention of the explanatory notes. With Fixed Term Parliaments, it doesn't have that page, so the inclusion of the note makes sense. We could add that to ones that do have the title page. I personally don't know if using the &quot;next&quot; parameter like in Specialist Printing is best, because it prevents us from using that parameter to link to the next act that year, if that's something we wanted to do. I know it's done in some other countries that have full years of acts transcluded. Similar issue in Fixed Term Parliaments using &quot;next&quot; for the Schedules.&lt;br&gt;
:I think best is to link things mentioned within the title/TOC like in [[Scotland Act 1998]], including Explanatory Notes if there, and then we can mention Explanatory Notes in the &quot;notes&quot; of the header, and leave &quot;previous&quot; and &quot;next&quot; for linking to surrounding acts. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:48, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== Page marked historical ==

Heads up that I tagged [[Wikisource:Purchases]] with {{tl|historical}} since it hasn't actually been in use in several years. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:48, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: This project page is interesting and was unknown to me until just now. It is very similar to an idea that [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] and I have discussed recently, which would involve creating a centralized page in the Project namespace for requests for scans to be made where no scans appear to be accessible online (which would replace [[User:TE(æ)A,ea./Requests]] in their personal user space). My suggested name was either [[WS:Requests for scans]], or making that a section of the [[WS:Scan Lab]]. FYI, because of the inter-library loan (ILL) system, very few books would actually need to be ''bought'' in order to be scanned anymore (as far as I understand it), but buying should definitely be an option for those who are willing to donate the material, in cases where ILL is not possible. All in all, the Purchases page has merit conceptually, but in its current implementation inserting {{tl|historical}} was the right move. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:00, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-21 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The Editing Team and the Machine Learning Team are working on a new check for newcomers: [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check|Peacock check]]. Using a prediction model, this check will encourage editors to improve the tone of their edits, using artificial intelligence. We invite volunteers to review the first version of the Peacock language model for the following languages: Arabic, Spanish, Portuguese, English, and Japanese. Users from these wikis interested in reviewing this model are [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check/model test|invited to sign up at MediaWiki.org]]. The deadline to sign up is on May 23, which will be the start date of the test.

'''Updates for editors'''

* From May 20, 2025, [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Oversight policy|oversighters]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Meta:CheckUsers|checkusers]] will need to have their accounts secured with two-factor authentication (2FA) to be able to use their advanced rights. All users who belong to these two groups and do not have 2FA enabled have been informed. In the future, this requirement may be extended to other users with advanced rights. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Mandatory two-factor authentication for users with some extended rights|Learn more]].
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]]  [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|Multiblocks]] will begin mass deployment by the end of the month: all non-Wikipedia projects plus Catalan Wikipedia will adopt Multiblocks in the week of May 26, while all other Wikipedias will adopt it in the week of June 2. Please [[m:Talk:Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|contact the team]] if you have concerns. Administrators can test the new user interface now on your own wiki by browsing to [{{fullurl:Special:Block|usecodex=1}} {{#special:Block}}?usecodex=1], and can test the full multiblocks functionality [[testwiki:Special:Block|on testwiki]]. Multiblocks is the feature that makes it possible for administrators to impose different types of blocks on the same user at the same time. See the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|help page]] for more information. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* Later this week, the [[{{#special:SpecialPages}}]] listing of almost all special pages will be updated with a new design. This page has been [[phab:T219543|redesigned]] to improve the user experience in a few ways, including: The ability to search for names and aliases of the special pages, sorting, more visible marking of restricted special pages, and a more mobile-friendly look. The new version can be [https://meta.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:SpecialPages previewed] at Beta Cluster now, and feedback shared in the task. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219543]
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is being enabled on more wikis. For a detailed list of when the extension will be enabled on your wiki, please read the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart/Project#Deployment Timeline|deployment timeline]].
* [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Main Page|Wikifunctions]] will be deployed on May 27 on five Wiktionaries: [[wikt:ha:|Hausa]], [[wikt:ig:|Igbo]], [[wikt:bn:|Bengali]], [[wikt:ml:|Malayalam]], and [[wikt:dv:|Dhivehi/Maldivian]]. This is the second batch of deployment planned for the project. After deployment, the projects will be able to call [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Introduction|functions from Wikifunctions]] and integrate them in their pages. A function is something that takes one or more inputs and transforms them into a desired output, such as adding up two numbers, converting miles into metres, calculating how much time has passed since an event, or declining a word into a case. Wikifunctions will allow users to do that through a simple call of [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Catalogue|a stable and global function]], rather than via a local template.
* Later this week, the Wikimedia Foundation will publish a hub for [[diffblog:2024/07/09/on-the-value-of-experimentation/|experiments]]. This is to showcase and get user feedback on product experiments. The experiments help the Wikimedia movement [[diffblog:2023/07/13/exploring-paths-for-the-future-of-free-knowledge-new-wikipedia-chatgpt-plugin-leveraging-rich-media-social-apps-and-other-experiments/|understand new users]], how they interact with the internet and how it could affect the Wikimedia movement. Some examples are [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Generated Video|generated video]], the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Roblox game|Wikipedia Roblox speedrun game]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Discord bot|the Discord bot]].
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:29}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:29|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, there was a bug with creating an account using the API, which has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T390751]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Gadgets and user scripts that interact with [[{{#special:Block}}]] may need to be updated to work with the new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|manage blocks interface]]. Please review the [[mw:Help:Manage blocks/Developers|developer guide]] for more information. If you need help or are unable to adapt your script to the new interface, please let the team know on the [[mw:Help talk:Manage blocks/Developers|talk page]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.title&lt;/code&gt; object allows you to get information about a specific wiki page in the [[w:en:Wikipedia:Lua|Lua]] programming language. Starting this week, a new property will be added to the object, named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;isDisambiguationPage&lt;/code&gt;. This property allows you to check if a page is a disambiguation page, without the need to write a custom function. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T71441]
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|15px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] User script developers can use a [[toolforge:gitlab-content|new reverse proxy tool]] to load javascript and css from [[gitlab:|gitlab.wikimedia.org]] with &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.loader.load&lt;/code&gt;. The tool's author hopes this will enable collaborative development workflows for user scripts including linting, unit tests, code generation, and code review on &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;gitlab.wikimedia.org&lt;/bdi&gt; without a separate copy-and-paste step to publish scripts to a Wikimedia wiki for integration and acceptance testing. See [[wikitech:Tool:Gitlab-content|Tool:Gitlab-content on Wikitech]] for more information.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.2|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* The 12th edition of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wiki Workshop 2025|Wiki Workshop 2025]], a forum that brings together researchers that explore all aspects of Wikimedia projects, will be held virtually on 21-22 May. Researchers can [https://pretix.eu/wikimedia/wikiworkshop2025/ register now].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 23:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
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== RfC ongoing regarding Abstract Wikipedia (and your project) ==

&lt;div lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;
''(Apologies for posting in English, if this is not your first language)''

Hello all! We opened a discussion on Meta about a very delicate issue for the development of [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]]: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. Since some of the hypothesis involve your project, we wanted to hear your thoughts too. 

We want to make the decision process clear: we do not yet know which option we want to use, which is why we are consulting here. We will take the arguments from the Wikimedia communities into account, and we want to consult with the different communities and hear arguments that will help us with the decision. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

You can read the various hypothesis and have your say at [[:m:Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]]. Thank you in advance! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|&lt;span class=&quot;signature-talk&quot;&gt;{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}&lt;/span&gt;]]) 15:27, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;/div&gt;
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== Weird Tales file and index with incorrect name ==

[[Index:Weird Tales Volume 02 Number 2 (1937-02).djvu]] should say Volume 29. Do you think I should ask for the file on Commons to be moved, and then to have the index and pages here moved ? Or just leave it as it is ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:15, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
: Given some of it is already transcluded, and that the index is not exposed to the end reader, I'd say leaving a comment like {{tqi|(typo in file name)}} in the index title field would be enough of a clarification. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 04:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - thanks. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:39, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== Official Launch of The Million Wiki Project ==

We are thrilled to announce the official launch of [[m:The_Million_Wiki_Project|The Million Wiki Project!]]
[[File:Million Wiki Logo - Colored.svg|200px|right]]
Our mission is to enrich Wikimedia projects with high-quality and diverse content related to the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region. This initiative focuses on creating new articles, multimedia, structured data, and more, covering topics from MENA countries, communities, and diaspora worldwide.

'''Who Can Participate?'''&lt;br&gt;
All registered Wikimedians are welcome to join! Whether you're an individual contributor or part of an organization, your support is valuable. We encourage content creation in any of the six official UN languages (Arabic, English, French, Russian, Spanish, and soon Chinese).

'''What Kind of Content Are We Looking For?'''

* New Wikipedia articles focused on MENA topics
* Multimedia contributions on Wikimedia Commons (photos, videos)
* Structured data for Wikidata
* Language entries on Wiktionary
* Public domain texts on Wikisource

Note: Make sure your content follows local Wikimedia guidelines and licensing policies, including Freedom of Panorama for media files.

Join us in bridging content gaps and showcasing the richness of the MENA region on Wikimedia platforms! &lt;br&gt;
Stay tuned for more updates and participation guidelines. [[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 09:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== New texts list ==

Does a work count as &quot;complete&quot; for the purposes of the new texts list if the book has an index which has not been transcribed nor transcluded ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:56, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
: No. There have been multiple discussions, notably at [[Template talk:New texts]], where a consensus emerged that a work must be proofread and transcluded (but that there was not a need for validation). If you find an unproofread/untranscluded work, you can remove it.
: Sometimes sub-works that are works in their own right without the others (such a play in a collection of plays) also get listed on new text; for such works, it looks like the pratice is to only require that their part of the index be proofread and transcluded. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Radio Times ==

Please join the discussion at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:35, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Beginner's guide to copyright missing a key issue ==

Please could someone add a bullet point to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] about what happens regarding the hosting of scans of works which are considered out-of-copyright by this Wikisource, but not by Wikimedia Commons (for example, where they are still in copyright in Europe, but not the US)? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:30, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

:That's not a copyright concern, but a compatibility concern, so it's covered at [[Help:Licensing compatibility]], which is linked from the bottom of the page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:55, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::It is a copyright concern, and is not about licensing.
::The page to which I referred is styled as a guide for ''Beginners'', and is where a beginner would reasonably look for such information. The page already discusses how other Wikimedia projects choose to respect non-United States copyright law, in contrast to this project, so the additional point under discussion is relevant there.
::Furthermore, the subject is not covered at Help:Licensing compatibility, which includes only one mention of Wikimedia Commons; and that in a section which does not touch on the issue I mention, but is in a section about discussions of the prohibition of &quot;no derivative&quot; clauses. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The &quot;Beginner's guide to copyright&quot; is about copyright itself.  Where our files are stored is not an issue of copyright law.  The Licensing compatibility covers which items are allowed to be hosted here, which ''is'' affected by copyright status, but copyright is ''not'' the only concern, there are other licensing issues that affect what can be hosted here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:37, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Whether a file is stored locally rather than on Commons if often decided ''solely'' on it's copyright status, which is in turn wholly a factor of copyright law.
::::Again: the licensing compatability page does not mention this issue ''at all''.
::::Again: this is not a matter of ''licensing''. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So then, you're looking for [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]]?  Again, where to upload a file may be ''affected'' by the copyright status of the work, but it's not a part of copyright law. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:26, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, I am not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:31, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::This is the page that says: &quot;Usually, the DjVu or PDF file should be uploaded directly to Wikimedia Commons (one of Wikisource's sister sites that holds images and files for general use).  However, Commons chooses to respect the copyright laws of the home country of any work, which Wikisource does not.  In cases where non-United States publications are in the public domain in the United States but not in their home countries, they should be uploaded directly to Wikisource instead.  This method is the same as the method to upload and add images.&quot;  Is that not what you are asking about? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:38, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::No. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:43, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Can you please clarify then? Because this looks to me to be exactly what you were asking about at the start of this thread. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

=== Clarity of Help page ===
User:Pigsonthewing has made [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3ABeginner%27s_guide_to_copyright&amp;oldid=prev&amp;diff=15092053 this change] to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]], with the comment &quot;This is not tangent; it relates directly to the page's pre-existing point about projects &quot;choose to respect non-United States copyright law. English Wikisource does not&quot; and hinges directly on the copyright status of works concerned&quot;

My concern is that this inserts a second tangential issue into a set of paragraphs explaining copyright law.

The text looks like this with the added text in '''bold''':

{{blockquote|
; Non-United States publications
The rules about non-United States publications can get complicated.

Some works may be in the public domain in the United States even if they are still under copyright in their home countries '''(these works should be uploaded directly to Wikisource, not Wikimedia Commons)'''. Other works may be in the public domain in their home countries but still under copyright in the United States '''(these works are not eligible for inclusion on this Wikisource'''.

For example, the last collection of Sherlock Holmes stories, ''[[The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes]]'', was published in 1927
}}

The text is concerned with the copyright status of works, not with the uploading of files.  The added text is concerned with the uploading of files, which is discussed on the page [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]], which has a section devoted to the uploading of source files.

I believe the additions to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] are intrusive, because they insert a second topic into a paragraph that is already about a complicated topic.  I also believe they are superfluous, because we already have a Beginner's guide page that explains where to upload files. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:03, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-22 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* A community-wide discussion about a very delicate issue for the development of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]] is now open on Meta: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. The discussion is open until June 12 at [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]], and every opinion is welcomed. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

'''Updates for editors'''
* Since last week, on all wikis except [[phab:T388604|the largest 20]], people using the mobile visual editor will have [[phab:T385851|additional tools in the menu bar]], accessed using the new &lt;code&gt;+&lt;/code&gt; toolbar button. To start, the new menu will include options to add: citations, hieroglyphs, and code blocks. Deployment to the remaining wikis is [[phab:T388605|scheduled]] to happen in June.
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexist|#ifexist]]&lt;/code&gt; parser function will no longer register a link to its target page. This will improve the usefulness of [[{{#special:WantedPages}}]], which will eventually only list pages that are the target of an actual red link. This change will happen gradually as the source pages are updated. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T14019]
* This week, the Moderator Tools team will launch [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], starting at Indonesian Wikipedia. This new filter highlights edits that are likely to be reverted. The goal is to help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic edits. Other wikis will benefit from this filter in the future.
* Upon clicking an empty search bar, logged-out users will see suggestions of articles for further reading. The feature will be available on both desktop and mobile. Readers of Catalan, Hebrew, and Italian Wikipedias and some sister projects will receive the change between May 21 and mid-June. Readers of other wikis will receive the change later. The goal is to encourage users to read the wikis more. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Reading/Web/Content Discovery Experiments/Search Suggestions|Learn more]].
* Some users of the Wikipedia Android app can use a new feature for readers, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Apps/Team/Android/TrivaGame|WikiGames]], a daily trivia game based on real historical events. The release has started as an A/B test, available to 50% of users in the following languages: English, French, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, and Turkish.
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Newsletter|Newsletter extension]] that is available on MediaWiki.org allows the creation of [[mw:Special:Newsletters|various newsletters]] for global users. The extension can now publish new issues as section links on an existing page, instead of requiring a new page for each issue. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T393844]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:32}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:32|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* The previously deprecated &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Ipblocks table|ipblocks]]&lt;/code&gt; views in [[wikitech:Help:Wiki Replicas|Wiki Replicas]] will be removed in the beginning of June. Users are encouraged to query the new &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block table|block]]&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block target table|block_target]]&lt;/code&gt; views instead.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.3|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects|Wikidata and Sister Projects]] is a multi-day online event that will focus on how Wikidata is integrated to Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. The event runs from May 29 – June 1. You can [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects#Sessions|read the Program schedule]] and [[d:Special:RegisterForEvent/1291|register]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 20:04, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Works as a header ==

Is &quot;Works&quot; by itself as a header in Portals meant to be read as &quot;Works by&quot; or &quot;Works about&quot;? I see it mostly used to mean &quot;Works by&quot; when I see it in Author space and it is separated into &quot;Works by&quot; and &quot;Works about&quot; when the two exist. That is why it looks odd in location Portal space as in [[Portal:Westbrookville, New York]]. IT looks like it the works were written by the location. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 03:15, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: I replaced the L2 &quot;Works about ...&quot; to &quot;Works&quot; to keep it consistent with what's done on most other portal entries on the site. &quot;Works&quot; here means &quot;Works about&quot;. However, as of right now there appears to be no official standard for which header to use. [[Wikisource:Portal guidelines]] and [[Help:Portals]] say nothing about a &quot;Works&quot; section or &quot;Works about&quot; section.
: If &quot;Works&quot; sections should be changed to &quot;Works about&quot; by some informal vote here, then it's probably best to make it an official policy. We should consider also using bots to keep up with the maintenance that would be required to standardize all portal L2s one way or the other.
: Wikisource lacking structure is a massive problem here IMO, since for example Wiktionary has their quite detailed &quot;[[wikt:WT:ELE|Entry layout explained]]&quot; policy page, while the typical Wikisource culture is just to sorta do whatever we want in most areas that could be given a ruleset. This makes things like parsing our content especially difficult, for example. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:06, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::However, there are a number of portals where &quot;works by&quot; is applicable - government departments, for example. 
::If we want to be consistent, I think it would be best to have the same policy for both Authors and Portals. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:39, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That would not make sense for Portals unless they are People Portals.  We would never have &quot;Works by Philosophy&quot; as a header.  And on any larger Portal, it also makes no sense to have a &quot;Works about&quot; header, since potentially everything on the Portal is about the subject of the Portal.  But there are also Portals where the content is '''neither''' by nor about; for example [[Portal:French literature]], where the works ''are'' French literature, and not work written by French literature, nor works about French literature. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:44, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Red link in Monthly Challenge ==

There is a red link in the monthly challenge for [[Author:Department of Defense]] - I understand that author page should not be created. Should that link instead to [[Portal:United States Department of Defense]] ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:42, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

:Yes. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:45, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::Please could somebody make that change - the work is &quot;United States – Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967&quot;. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:40, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::: {{done}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Cheers. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees 2025 Selection &amp; Call for Questions ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
:''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement|{{int:interlanguage-link-mul}}]] • [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&amp;group=page-{{urlencode:Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement}}&amp;language=&amp;action=page&amp;filter= {{int:please-translate}}]''

Dear all,

This year, the term of 2 (two) Community- and Affiliate-selected Trustees on the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees will come to an end [1]. The Board invites the whole movement to participate in this year’s selection process and vote to fill those seats.

The Elections Committee will oversee this process with support from Foundation staff [2]. The Governance Committee, composed of trustees who are not candidates in the 2025 community-and-affiliate-selected trustee selection process (Raju Narisetti, Shani Evenstein Sigalov, Lorenzo Losa, Kathy Collins, Victoria Doronina and Esra’a Al Shafei) [3], is tasked with providing Board oversight for the 2025 trustee selection process and for keeping the Board informed. More details on the roles of the Elections Committee, Board, and staff are here [4].

Here are the key planned dates:

* May 22 – June 5: Announcement (this communication) and call for questions period [6]
* June 17 – July 1, 2025: Call for candidates
* July 2025: If needed, affiliates vote to shortlist candidates if more than 10 apply [5]
* August 2025: Campaign period
* August – September 2025: Two-week community voting period
* October – November 2025: Background check of selected candidates
* Board’s Meeting in December 2025: New trustees seated

Learn more about the 2025 selection process - including the detailed timeline, the candidacy process, the campaign rules, and the voter eligibility criteria - on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025|[link]]].

'''Call for Questions'''

In each selection process, the community has the opportunity to submit questions for the Board of Trustees candidates to answer. The Election Committee selects questions from the list developed by the community for the candidates to answer. Candidates must answer all the required questions in the application in order to be eligible; otherwise their application will be disqualified. This year, the Election Committee will select 5 questions for the candidates to answer. The selected questions may be a combination of what’s been submitted from the community, if they’re alike or related. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates|[link]]]

'''Election Volunteers'''

Another way to be involved with the 2025 selection process is to be an Election Volunteer. Election Volunteers are a bridge between the Elections Committee and their respective community. They help ensure their community is represented and mobilize them to vote. Learn more about the program and how to join on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Election_volunteers|[link].]]

Thank you!

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2022/Results

[2] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Committee:Elections_Committee_Charter

[3] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Committee_Membership,_December_2024

[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections_committee/Roles

[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/FAQ

[6] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates

Best regards,

Victoria Doronina

Board Liaison to the Elections Committee

Governance Committee&lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

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== We are looking for a pilot for our new feature, Favourite Templates ==

Hello everyone! [[meta:Community Tech|Community Tech]] are building a new feature, called [[metawiki:Community_Wishlist/Focus_areas/Template_recall_and_discovery|Favourite Templates]], that will provide a better way for new and experienced contributors to recall and discover templates via the template dialog, that works with both VisualEditor and wikitext editor. We hope this will increase dialog usage and the number of templates added.

Since 2013, experienced volunteers have asked for a more intuitive template selector, exposing popular or most-used templates on the template dialog. At this stage of work, we are focusing on allowing users to put templates in a “favourite” list, so that their reuse will be easier. At a later stage, we will focus on helping users discover or find templates.

We are looking for potential additional testers for Favourite Templates, and we thought you might be interested in trying it out. If so, please let us know if it is the case, we would be happy to set up a pilot. So far, the feature has been deployed successfully on Polish and Arabic Wikipedia, and we’re currently in talks with other projects for expanding the pilot phase.

In addition, we’d love to hear your feedback and ideas for helping people find and insert templates. Some ideas we’ve identified are searching or browsing templates by category, or showing the number of times a template has been transcluded.

Of course, we are ready to answer your questions and to give you all the information you need. Thanks in advance!

—[[User:SWilson (WMF)|SWilson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SWilson (WMF)|talk]]) 05:23, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== DTIC file - Colors in Terrain ==


Is this PD-US-Gov?

https://archive.org/details/DTIC_ADA277204/page/n3/mode/2up

If so I'd like to put it on Wikisource. In addition it would be appreciated if someone with expertise could advise on how to reconstruct the XYZ values from the xy and luminance factors given.  This is so I can make used of the dataset (with citation) in respect of other projects. (I would of course be happy with a relevant color chart being constructed as a semi-formal academic paper over on Wikiversity.)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:52, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think, unfortunately, it is not PD-US-Gov. I don't believe US Gov contractors count as federal employees for the purpose of copyright law, and the [https://www.acquisition.gov/far/27.404-3 Federal Acquisition Regulation 27.404-3] specifically outlines that contractor producers of scientific and technical reports have blanket permission to reassert copyright on their research. That same regulation notes that the free unlimited distribution license which is noted on the document is just to the US Gov; I don't believe the public can tap into that license to redistribute.
:Perhaps someone with more US Gov works experience can chime in though. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:13, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

: Bother. Looks like I'll have to find the original journal articles directly then. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:38, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
: The source dataset seems to be a 1940's translation published in Canada of a 1943 Russian language work, This gets interesting. Can someone dig a little deeper? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Have we lost some Validated Indexes? ==

On 11 Sept. 2024 I updated [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] with our 6500th completed index. I just went to check on progress to the next milestone of 7000 only to discover that there are only 5284 in [[:Category:Index Validated]]. How and when did we lose over 1500 validated Indexes? [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:19, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
: I place my bet on the index lua error from two months and a half ago. We have ~12k indexes that just don't have ''any'' categories (out of 35583 total indexes). I think some of those affected by the bug had all their Page:s already transcluded, and so the Page:s didn't count as orphan and we didn't find them yet. The categorylink table must just have not been updated. Confirmation of this: The first thus uncategorised index reported when I queried was [[Index:! Explosive objects in War in Ukraine, 2022 (01).jpg]]. It had page_links_updated set to 20250311190213, which is 11 march, the date of the lua index error. On a null edit, it disappeared from the list. We probably ought to get 'round to null-editing all these indexes. I'm really busy these days but I could patch up some code next week. 12k is not that much. If we say one null edit/min that makes 12k minutes, or 200 hours, or just over a week. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:07, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (FYI: the complete list is [https://quarry.wmcloud.org/query/94236 here]. To refresh (you need to have forked) just re-submit. Replag aside, should update instantaneously.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:24, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Hadn't thought of that, despite the fact that I've been null-editing Indexes via LonelyPages every three days. I'm part way through G with another update due this evening (my time). Any Index that is not pdf or djvu has been skipped over. Where there are Pages without an Index, I've left them for investigation later. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 17:58, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Any specific reason for skipping non-pdf/djvu indexes? Normally they should work like others. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:01, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Because the listing in LonelyPages is the Page namespace and the link to the Index doesn't appear as a tab in the same way. Thus easier to ignore at present and then deal with as a group later. I much prefer dealing with a single workflow at a time. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::By the way - the orphaned pages listing was actually updated yesterday - it starts again on the first of the month,
::::::I have been trying to reduce the main pages on the orphaned pages list. A number of those have been works transcluded but affected by the index lua error. (And so not linked from anywhere else). I have tried adding other links as well. Of course, this means that main pages affected by the lua error do not show there if they already were linked from elsewhere. --
::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::: @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] and [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] : the query I linked to above ''does'' give an exhaustive list, transclusion or no transclusion, exploiting the fact that broken indexes lost their categories. It also gives the indexes not the pages, so there's no trouble of reaching the index from the pages. If you want, I can reasonably easily get the list into a wikipage with links (as opposed to the quarry result of just page names). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:37, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I've made a list at [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]]. Having already dealt with some, it's reduced in size by ca. 500 from the initial. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:21, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: Would you mind other editors editing that page? So we can remove those that are done and keep track of where we're at. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:41, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I've forked the query to select .djvu indexes (&lt;code&gt;page_title like '%.djvu'&lt;/code&gt;). 3600 are remaining. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 10:52, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::: Welp, we do also have to do the PDFs. It's not a good thing, but many indexes are done PDF. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:54, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I have no problems with other editors editing the page. Keeping track and not duplicating effort is always good. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 22:33, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All DjVu indexes done. The page is updated. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All jpg, jpeg, webm indexes done. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All not .pdf indexes done (6,818). [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]] updated. Now 5,641 pages in Category:Index Validated • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The proposed query has to be modified, ~2000 indexes having categories other than &quot;Index:...&quot;.
::::::::::::I have used as a jointure: 
:::::::::::::&lt;code&gt;and page_id not in ( select cl_from  from categorylinks   where cl_to like 'Index%' )&lt;/code&gt;
::::::::::::to get a new list. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:29, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: &lt;code&gt; AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM categorylinks WHERE cl_from = page_id AND cl_to LIKE 'Index%')&lt;/code&gt; is probably faster. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: As a side note, I found why these indexes have some of their cats but not all: the categories that are added manually are actually out of the template; so when the template broke, they only lost the categories that relied on it; which means the status cats &amp;co, but not the manual ones. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:56, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::All Indexes in the second list are now null-edited and [[:Category:Index Validated]] is at 6953, which approximately what I was expecting to see. There are only 141 in the Validated category that need to have their transclusion status checked. Thanks to {{ping|M-le-mot-dit}} for the assistance on getting all the Indexes null-edited so quickly. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:42, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:The milestone of 7000 Validated indexes was reached yesterday. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 07:57, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (I think it's [[Index:Skyes Picot, The Manchester Guardian, Monday, November 26, 1917, p5.jpg]].) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The Category contains a template ({{tl|Proofreadpage_index_template/testcases}}), so it may be [[Index:The President's Proclamation (Proctor, 1963).jpg]]. Quarry gives 7004 indexes. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Indeed, good catch! :) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:13, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::It was indeed The President's Proclamation. [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] has been updated. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-23 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is now available on all Wikimedia wikis. Editors can use this new extension to create interactive data visualizations like bar, line, area, and pie charts. Charts are designed to replace many of the uses of the legacy [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Graph|Graph extension]].

'''Updates for editors'''
* It is now easier to configure automatic citations for your wiki within the visual editor's [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Citoid/Enabling Citoid on your wiki|citation generator]]. Administrators can now set a default template by using the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;_default&lt;/code&gt; key in the local &lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[MediaWiki:Citoid-template-type-map.json]]&lt;/bdi&gt; page ([[mw:Special:Diff/6969653/7646386|example diff]]). Setting this default will also help to future-proof your existing configurations when [[phab:T347823|new item types]] are added in the future. You can still set templates for individual item types as they will be preferred to the default template. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384709]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:20}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:20|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Starting the week of June 2, bots logging in using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=clientlogin&lt;/code&gt; will fail more often. This is because of stronger protections against suspicious logins. Bots using [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Bot passwords|bot passwords]] or using a loginless authentication method such as [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/OAuth/Owner-only consumers|OAuth]] are not affected. If your bot is not using one of those, you should update it; using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; without a bot password was deprecated [[listarchive:list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/3EEMN7VQX5G7WMQI5K2GP5JC2336DPTD/|in 2016]]. For most bots, this only requires changing what password the bot uses. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T395205]
* From this week, Wikimedia wikis will allow ES2017 features in JavaScript code for official code, gadgets, and user scripts. The most visible feature of ES2017 is &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;code&gt;async&lt;/code&gt;/&lt;code&gt;await&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/bdi&gt; syntax, allowing for easier-to-read code. Until this week, the platform only allowed up to ES2016, and a few months before that, up to ES2015. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T381537]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.4|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* Scholarship applications to participate in the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025|GLAM Wiki Conference 2025]] are now open. The conference will take place from 30 October to 1 November, in Lisbon, Portugal. GLAM contributors who lack the means to support their participation can [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025/Scholarships|apply here]]. Scholarship applications close on June 7th.

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== Copyright status of a work. ==

This is listed as public domain on Hathi:-
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31210024780379&amp;seq=15

However, it contains apparenty reprints of papers published in other works, which may need additional evalaution.

The author of the papers seems to have been an active Employee at the NBS (later NIST), So can someone make a determination as to this work's potential inclusion in Wikisource, given that the works itself is Federal?. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:00, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}} I've sent the NIST an email, hopefully they reply. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:54, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: The concern is that some of the papers appear to be published in Journals, which given the dates would have had active registrations, (even if the individual author concerned didn't make individual periodical ones.). [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:05, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}}
:This is the response from the NIST:
:&quot;Hi,
:Generally, official writings by federal employees are not subject to copyright protection within the United States (a narrow exception to this policy exists in the case of Standard Reference Data published under the provisions of the Standard Reference Data Act (Public Law 90-396). The Act permits NIST to copyright Standard Reference Data.  Click here for more information.)  However, the government may be able to assert copyright in countries other than the United States.  When official writings by NIST employees, except those covered under the Standard Reference Data Act, are submitted to a non-NIST publication, a statement should be included indicating that the material is not subject to copyright protection within the United States. If you are asked to sign a publication permission form, you should have it reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST prior to signing.  Some journals will accept our copyright form. (In fact, some journals will request this copyright form.) (External co-authors may be asked to sign an agreement transferring their copyright to the publisher, which they may choose to do.)
:Sample statement: Official contribution of the National Institute of Standards and Technology; not subject to copyright in the United States.
:Note that in most instances NIST Research Associates could assert copyright but may have agreed not to assert US copyright in their work done at NIST when they signed their NIST Associate’s Agreement. Whether or not to include the ‘not subject to copyright in the United States’ statement on manuscripts jointly authored by federal NIST employees and NIST Associates is a factual matter to be determined when the publication is drafted.
:If you are asked to sign a publisher’s agreement for your publication that agreement must first be reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.
:If you encounter any problems with a publisher, or need any help, contact the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.&quot;
:I think this is a yes, thoughts? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 11:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: Hmm, so that says NIST Research Associate works without other notices, are possibles. However, in respect of this specifc collection, some of the later articles are from Journals with their own copyrights and thus can't be included (because of the Journal Copyright, rather than the contributors.). On that basis, the original papers will have to be tracked down and evaluated on a paper by paper basis. 
:BTW for a Government agency, that response is suprisingly clear for our purposes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Colour vs b/w image? ==

Hi, I was finding the image for [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Taming_Liquid_Hydrogen_The_Centaur_Upper_Stage_Rocket.pdf/58]. For this text, instead of extracting from the low quality PDF, since they are all catalogued NASA images, I have just looked up the image IDs and downloaded them directly from the NASA/DVIDS website. However, for this specific page, the image is black and white, but I found a high-quality colour version at [https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/historic-facilities/rocket-engine-test-facility/retf-staff/]. What should I do? Use the colour version as is or convert it to black/white first? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:29, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: My 2¢ would be convert it to black &amp; white, as that's what the source has. The low-quality is very probably due to bad scanning. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 22:15, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== 'Indexes validated in [month]' category ==

Why does [[Index:Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf]] appear in [[:Category:Indexes validated in June 2025]], yet [[Index:Reference to some of the works executed in stained glass - William Raphael Eginton.pdf]] does not? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:46, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

:I expect it is because the former has an  entry in the box &quot;Validation date&quot; and the latter has that box blank. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:59, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]], @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] It is not longer blank now! But yes, you do have to manually fill in the validation date box, by editing the index page. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:01, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. (Though the index page was amended to show all validated in May.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:18, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:::[https://petscan.wmcloud.org/?psid=35284922 Petscan] lists 136 indexes in the above situation. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::I've sorted 96 of them, but need to call it a night. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 10:14, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Monthly Challenge colors on dark mode ==

For some reason the colors for the to fix header and the to proofread headers are swapped on dark mode. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:34, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: There where some muck-ups in the templates between the statuses (essentially, the classes were swapped and so the colors were swapped again to make it right). Caused some confusion when adding dark mode compat. Should be solved. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::Sorry for the mess up and thanks for the fix by the way! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Thinking REALLY big.. ==

Back in 2020, Fae mirrored PDF's of copyright records on IA to Commons.

Is there a contributor here that is willing to set up Index: here for post 1950's volumes?  

The thought was that it might be a way of finding works that might expire in the next few years, and if the renewals were looked into 
post 1930(rolling) volumes that might also be in scope for the period 1940 to 1950.  Other publications note a Fourth Series which continued to 1982(?) but those entries should already be in the online system. 

&quot;Mars-shot&quot; project, but worth it, if the transcription generated can be fed back into Wikidata as well.  This wouldn't be a project I'd focus on personally, my watchlist is already at 'life's work' length, but I felt this was something to be worked out. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Get IIIF working again. ==
Previously, inductiveload had a script ([[User:Inductiveload/jump_to_file]]) which helped improve the scans presented, by pulling them directly from hathi or IA, rather than  using the lower quality PDF present on Wikisource. 

Due to changes at IA ( URL in the script needs updating), this script stopped functioning.  Can someone PLEASE look into getting this working again, as it greatly assists in the transcription of works, where the PDF quality is exceptionally poor due to over compression or otherwise?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:04, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: As I already told you, the issue is with a line that has to be changed in the toolforge tool's code. See [[phab:T356227|T356227]]. This requires usurpation of the tool (given IL is gone at least for now); which is not easy to get. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:30, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: Thank you. So what could be a useful project is effectively stalled, because of 3 letters in old code, which can't be easily updated because the tool maintainer is absent. {{ping|Sohom Datta}} Another contributor attempted to fix this by patching the url on the Wikisource, but I couldn't get that technique to work.  The endpoint that the toolforge script uses now gives Error 500 suggesting it wasn't a priority to repair or was migrated.)..  As detailed in the phabricator ticket it's 4 characters in a single file that need changing.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:58, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: The project I refer to is above. a Marshsot project on the Catalog of Copyright Entries. (Yes I has strait jacket to hand! :lol:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:39, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

When 5 years after a massive upload, you find it isn't in a good quality:(.. 

I'm going to need some time to consider if I even attempt to work with this, and I am wondering if it's worth it, unless the PDF quality issue is resolved. Others here are working on making the hi-resimage loader work again, provided of course the endpoint it uses remains available. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 17:12, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-24 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product|Trust and Safety Product team]] is finalizing work needed to roll out [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|temporary accounts]] on large Wikipedias later this month. The team has worked with stewards and other users with extended rights to predict and address many use cases that may arise on larger wikis, so that community members can continue to effectively moderate and patrol temporary accounts. This will be the second of three phases of deployment – the last one will take place in September at the earliest. For more information about the recent developments on the project, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts/Updates|see this update]]. If you have any comments or questions, write on the [[mw:Talk:Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|talk page]], and [[m:Event:CEE Catch up Nr. 10 (June 2025)|join a CEE Catch Up]] this Tuesday.

'''Updates for editors'''
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]] The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Watchlist expiry|watchlist expiry]] feature allows editors to watch pages for a limited period of time. After that period, the page is automatically removed from your watchlist. Starting this week, you can set a preference for the default period of time to watch pages. The [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist-pageswatchlist|preferences]] also allow you to set different default watch periods for editing existing pages, pages you create, and when using rollback. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T265716]
[[File:Talk pages default look (April 2023).jpg|thumb|alt=Screenshot of the visual improvements made on talk pages|Example of a talk page with the new design, in French.]]
* The appearance of talk pages will change at almost all Wikipedias ([[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/19|some]] have already received this design change, [[phab:T379264|a few]] will get these changes later). You can read details about the changes [[diffblog:2024/05/02/making-talk-pages-better-for-everyone/|on ''Diff'']]. It is possible to opt out of these changes [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion|in user preferences]] (&quot;{{int:discussiontools-preference-visualenhancements}}&quot;). [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T319146][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T392121]
* Users with specific extended rights (including administrators, bureaucrats, checkusers, oversighters, and stewards) can now have IP addresses of all temporary accounts [[phab:T358853|revealed automatically]] during time-limited periods where they need to combat high-speed account-hopping vandalism. This feature was requested by stewards. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T386492]
* This week, the Moderator Tools and Machine Learning teams will continue the rollout of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], releasing it to several more Wikipedias. This filter utilizes the Revert Risk model, which was created by the Research team, to highlight edits that are likely to be reverted and help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic contributions. The feature will be rolled out to the following Wikipedias: {{int:project-localized-name-afwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bnwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-cywiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-hawwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-iswiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-kkwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-simplewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-trwiki/en}}. The rollout will continue in the coming weeks to include [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|the rest of the Wikipedias in this project]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T391964]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* AbuseFilter editors active on Meta-Wiki and large Wikipedias are kindly asked to update AbuseFilter to make it compatible with temporary accounts. A link to the instructions and the private lists of filters needing verification are [[phab:T369611|available on Phabricator]].
* Lua modules now have access to the name of a page's associated thumbnail image, and on [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/operations/mediawiki-config/+/2e4ab14aa15bb95568f9c07dd777065901eb2126/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php#10849 some wikis] to the WikiProject assessment information. This is possible using two new properties on [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#added-by-extensions|mw.title objects]], named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageImage&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageAssessments&lt;/code&gt;. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T131911][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T380122]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.5|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 01:16, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28846858 --&gt;
:NOTE: The default watchlist expiry time feature isn't available on here and it isn't available on enwiki or commons either. It ''is'' available on mediawikiwiki though, and I'm not sure why. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: See [[wikitech:Deployment train#Groups]]. In a nutshell: mediawiki updates are progressively rolled out in groups; we're in group 2, so we get them on wednesdays; as opposed to mediawikiwiki being in group 1 (tuesday) and enwiki being in group 3 (thursday). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you for explaining! [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 16:55, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family (archive.org)]] ==

This states that the source was ftp://ia340915.us.archive.org/1/items/LovecraftInPdfFormat/a_jermyn.pdf - trying that link did not work for me, and trying to find this item on Internet Archive gave me nothing. Anyone have any ideas where this source might be ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: That link uses the FTP protocol. Switching to http or https gives a 500 error.
: It also is a link to the direct file as opposed to the IA item.
: However, I can't find any item with such a name either.
: Possibly it was pulled out of IA's collections, but that would seem strange (pre-1930 publication). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. Wikipedia indicates that the story was only published under that title in 1986, so I assume that it was taken from a later collection. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:20, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Ah, that would explain IA pulling it out of their collections. In the last few months they've pulled out a lot of stuff which was plausibly PD (probably afraid of getting sued to death). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:25, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::::And, of course, shows a danger in not uploading the scan to Commons or here.
::::We now have a scan-backed copy of the story from the original Weird Tales printing, and a Weird Tales reprint available for transcription. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Bayonne Times need a link to Wikidata ==

Can someone link The Bayonne Times here at Wikisource to Wikidata Q118610753. Usually a bot does this, so if you see an error, let me know what I did wrong. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 14:58, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}}. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 15:11, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: (Heads up - the bot runs weekly, on saturday evenings UTC. So for this page, which was linked yesterday on the 9th, it would have done it next sat (the 14th).) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== How to improve this table ==

Hi, I made a table at [[Page:A History Of Mathematical Notations Vol I (1928).djvu/35]]. Whilst it works, it probably is quite a bodge solution and probably isn't compatible with mobile. Could anyone give some ideas as to how to improve it? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 17:48, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Matrix|Matrix]] I am not sure if all tables can be made safe for mobile, so I am not sure exactly what to recommend. If you concern is having a table altogether, you could try individual lines of text, with [[:Template:Phantom]] to align the individual terms (alignment would not be preserved on all screens, but it would stop the font size shrinking when viewed in small windows, as presently). Also, very minor, but why call &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Right|}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; on cell contents, when you can apply &lt;nowiki&gt;{{ts|ar}}|&lt;/nowiki&gt;? Maybe it is identical, but it just seemed a little odd. P.S. There is also a quotation mark missing on the last 8 on the page, but I am not sure what the 8 is/isn't supposed to be aligned with (the 1/7th, and the 5,2,1 look like they are in slightly different columns). Up to you where you place it. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Template:Id ==

I have no idea why this template is the ''number one'' spot on [[Special:WantedTemplates]] (all such links are in the Page namespace). My guess is that it is somehow being transcluded by means of a different, broken template. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:12, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:It appears to be something to do with {{tl|float left}} after ShakespeareFan00's last fiddle. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: Due to a typo in [[Special:PermaLink/15019930]], {{tl|float left}} briefly called {{tl|id}} instead of using {{code|{{{id}}}}}. By the time it was corrected, it got the time to spread out it these 3k-ish pages. Discussed this with them back in April; we were hoping that MW would realise and purge pagelinks. Manifestly not. I'd say ignore it? Except if someone fells like going on a null-editing spree again. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:54, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Update: either it was the waiting, or the purging the template, or someone purging all the pages *shrug*, but now the links to {{tl|id}} have disappeared from whatlinkshere. I think [[Special:Wantedtemplates]] will reflect that in a few days' time. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Jersey Journal disconnected from Wikidata ==

You can just restore the deletion at Q7743126. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 20:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{done}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 13:28, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Cabin at the Trail's End ==

There are two indexes [[Index:Cabin at the Trail's End (IA cabinattrailsend0000sheb).pdf]] where some pages have been created and [[Index:The Cabin at the Trail's End.djvu]] where, apparantly, the OCR is a page off. Which to keep ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
: Given that a) OCR off by a page is a fixable problem; b) pdfs have more bugs; c) the djvu's OCR is slightly better than the pdf's; my 2¢ are take the djvu.
: I have taken the liberty of realigning the OCR of the djvu. (One of the good sides of djvus is that the hidden text can be easily extracted, tweaked and readded.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Vote now in the 2025 U4C Election ==

&lt;div lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;

{{Int:Please-translate}}

Eligible voters are asked to participate in the 2025 [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Coordinating_Committee|Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee]] election. More information–including an eligibility check, voting process information, candidate information, and a link to the vote–are available on Meta at the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Coordinating_Committee/Election/2025|2025 Election information page]]. The vote closes on 17 June 2025 at [https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1750161600 12:00 UTC].

Please vote if your account is eligible. Results will be available by 1 July 2025. -- In cooperation with the U4C, [[m:User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[m:User talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]]) 23:01, 13 June 2025 (UTC) &lt;/div&gt;
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      <comment>archive 1 section: 1 to [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-05]] (after section [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-05#FYI:_Wikisource:_Preserving_the_Past_for_the_Future|FYI:_Wikisource:_Preserving_the_Past_for_the_Future]]) - previous edit: [[:User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]], 2025-06-13 23:01</comment>
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= Announcements =

= Proposals =
== Overriding Vector 2022 paragraph spacing ==
Since the forced deployment in November 2024, and multiple discussions including [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-01#Paragraph_spacing], [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding V22 paragraph spacing|2]], [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Switching to the Vector 2022 skin: the final date|3]], and [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2024-11#Deployment of Vector 2022|4]], the idea of overriding the excessive paragraph spacing from V22 was floated multiple times. V22 raised the 0.9em spacing between paragraphs to 1.5em, which broke content that expected text to have similar size across skins (notably but not only {{tl|overfloat image}}).

This proposal is therefore to add to [[MediaWiki:Gadget-Site.css]]:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.mw-body p {
    margin:0.4em 0 0.5em 0;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Technical notes:
* this should have neither false positives nor false negatives given that &lt;code&gt;.mw-body p&lt;/code&gt; is the exact same selector used by V22.
* if site.css is loaded before the skin css, then we can just add a &lt;code&gt;html &lt;/code&gt; at the start of the selector: will not change the selection (given everything's in an html), and will give it more specificity (0,1,2 vs 0,1,1).
* 0.4em 0 0.5em 0 is exactly how it was in V10.
* this may stop working one day whenever WMF decides to IDHT another change through; but so can the entire website, and at least we'll have a fix. If it stops working, we can easily remove it and go back to our current state of having broken content.
— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} as proposer. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}}, strongly. Thanks for starting the vote! --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:51, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:58, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{support}} [[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:09, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

= Bot approval requests =
* See [[Wikisource:Bots]]  for information about applying for a bot status
* See [[Wikisource:Bot requests]] if you require an existing bot to undertake a task

==[[User:333Bot]]==
(See also [[#Thinking of an anti-linkrot bot]].)

For non-scan backed works, sometimes the original webpage disappears and we lose the source. This task would archive automatically sources in new mainspace/talk pages at the wayback machine, and add {{tl|wml}}.

To avoid archiving vandalism, it would only do this on pages older than a week. (It won't search beyond the 2000th created page.)

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. Source's at [[User:Alien333/test#Link archiving]].

The idea would be to run this daily. Test edits: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14252&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001840] and [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Executive_Order_14251&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15001919]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:59, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
: As nearly two weeks have passed without objections, I activated this task per [[WS:BOT]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:59, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The run is over. Before launching the cronjob I will change the code to prevent it from archiving links in mainspace works' content (there are few valid reasons for extlinks in works; but there are some). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:48, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Did that, started cronjob. Will run at 16h14 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Note: For the last few days, it was stopped by an IA error on a certain page. I have now made it not crash on IA errors. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:03, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

==[[User:333Bot]] 2==
(See also [[#Seeking feedback on bot task to tag untagged deletion nominations]] for details and discussion.)

Works proposed for deletion at [[WS:PD]] or &lt;s&gt;[[WS:PD]]&lt;/s&gt;&lt;ins&gt;[[WS:CV]]&lt;/ins&gt; should be accordingly tagged. Occasionally, people forget to tag them. This task would locate these and tag them.

It uses pywikibot on toolforge. The code's at [[User:Alien333/test#Nomination_tagging]]. It would run daily. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:WS:PD or WS:PD ? Aren't they the same ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:24, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, you're right. Got mixed up. Meant PD and CV. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Heads up: I started the cronjob. (No untagged nominations rn, so may do no edits.) Runs will occur at about 5h40 UTC. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:27, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

=Repairs (and moves)=

'''Designated for requests related to the repair of works (and scans of works) presented on Wikisource'''

See also [[Wikisource:Scan lab]]

== Explanatory Notes Indices ==
Please move the following indices to their new corresponding filename
* [[Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf]]
[[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:42, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: Errr. Feel free to trout me, but I don't understand what you're asking for.
: As in, move which pages to which titles? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::* Index:Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-16 qp).pdf
::* Index:Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 (UKPGA 2003-31 qp).pdf
::* Index:Defamation Act 2013 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Defamation Act 2013 (UKPGA 2013-26 qp).pdf
::* Index:Modern Slavery Act 2015 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Modern Slavery Act 2015 (UKPGA 2015-30 qp).pdf
::* Index:Live Music Act 2012 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Live Music Act 2012 (UKPGA 2012-2 qp).pdf
::* Index:Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 Explanatory Notes.pdf to Index:Explanatory Notes - Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 (UKPGA 2011-14 qp).pdf
::This is to match filename move at commons. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:29, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

= Other discussions =
== [[Contra-Props]] ==

This article was published in a British magazine in 1941; the author died in 1946. Would this be still in copyright ? Or PD ?

(This was the subject of a previous query here which got archived without being answered - [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2019-09#1941_UK_publication]]) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:51, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
: Looks copyrighted to me. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:31, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
: Unless there's some reason they count as a US work, all UK works were restored by the URAA. The few exceptions are either Crown Copyright or were published by authors who died before 1926.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:26, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - I have put it as apparant copyright violation - [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions#Contra-Props]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That page has now been deleted so this query can be closed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:48, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Manual indexing of news articles versus Automatic indexing of news articles ==

I want to convert [[Brooklyn Eagle]] to an automatic-index instead of the hand-curated index. The hand curated index looks pretty, but is always missing articles. We can have [[The Brooklyn Eagle]] as the pretty one. See how it is done at [[Jersey Journal]], scroll to the bottom and there is a link to the pretty hand-curated list, missing many articles. This is similar to how Commons does it, you have automatic index at Category:Foo, and hand curated one as Foo, that is always missing entries. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 17:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:More automated curation of Periodicals and Newspapers on this site in the future would in general be a good thing - there's a lot of good work being done across a lot of these works but the process of creating the main-space pages for them can get very tedious and repetitive. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose had to write janky programs to semi-automate their individual workflows for some of these works.
:Your idea of a distinction between '''The Somewhere Argus''' and '''Somewhere Argus''' is interesting (and as I'm not a big user of wikimedia, not something I've particularly noticed on that site), but it doesn't seem particularly intuitive to me that one should be a raw list and another a curated view (or which way round those should be, and it seems quite a big departure from how work is generally presented here. Is it done anywhere else on this site? In the past I've seen a lot of resistance to the same work being included in different main-space pages. 
:In terms of a curated view, that may be better done by creating a Portal for that work. For example, when I worked through the July-Dec 1914 volumes of [[Punch]], I created a summary of all of the books reviewed in that volume which I put here: [[Portal:Punch/Reviewed Books]], that wouldn't really have been appropriate to put in the main page. 
:Alternatively, what's stopping you from having a list of highlights and the automatic index linked from the same page? That's effectively what [[The New York Times]] does - some of the issues are highlighted (those for which enough work has been done for them to have a complete contents page) but for the rest, there are year-based automatic lists using the {{tl|header periodical}} template. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 09:56, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
:* You are right, &quot;Portal:Brooklyn Eagle&quot; would be best for the hand curated ones, we should standardize on that, and migrate older ones to that format. Currently there are six styles of indexes for magazines and newspapers. There were at least ten different styles before I tried to standardized them. I eliminated the ones that were experimental one-of-a-kind ones. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 19:25, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Don't we already have a standard format, as documented at [[Wikisource:Periodical guidelines]] ? —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:24, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:By the way, I fixed [[Jersey Journal]]. There shouldn't be two separate mainspace pages for the same work, so I deleted the one that was simply a dump of subpages, and replaced it with the properly structured list that was previously located at [[The Jersey Journal]].
:In general, the automatic subpage listing should only be used as a temporary stop-gap until a proper page listing can be created. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:31, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::To your original point though - if you can find a way to automatically list all subpages, whether or not they have already been created, and in the correct order they appear in the publication, then that would be amazing and definitely we'd all make extensive use of such a system. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:14, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
Automate portals, have them point to Main.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:50, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

==QuickSurveys==
Apparently some new “feature” has been forced upon us again. These are annoying pop-up boxes which really mess up the formatting, especially if whatever text at the top of the page is centered (as it often is). Can this be disabled by default for everyone? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:32, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: Dropped a task ([[phab:T393436]]) to ask them to not barge into the content like this, but I don't have much hope.
: And no, this extension and its parameters are a wmf thing, so we can't really do anything on our own. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:I have no clue what you're talking about. Can you tell me the steps to reproduce this issue? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:49, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::I can see it on any page that I open (and it is very disturbing), so if you do not, you might have it disabled in your preferences. See also the screenshots uploaded to the above linked phabricator task. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I don't. I'm trying to figure out which settings the original person has to see why he sees it, but if you're seeing it also, that is odd to me. I'm not sure why anyone is seeing this. I'm not. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 12:19, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::In the preferences under the &quot;User profile&quot; tab there is a section &quot;QuickSurvey extension&quot; where the surveys can be set as hidden. Currently logged out users also do not see it, but if this feature stays, we can imo expect it will be used to display messages (e.g. pleas for funding) to them as well. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: These things are highly targetable and targeted, see [[mw:Extension:QuickSurveys]]. Probably you aren't counted as an active patroller here (and this precise survey is about patrolling tools). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:57, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just an example of what I am seeing: [https://phab.wmfusercontent.org/file/data/wvrcadows4ftokyz3lyg/PHID-FILE-udsgsisdj2hq2uuva46d/screenshot3jpg.jpg] --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:06, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
*Another awful example: [[Charter Granted by Queen Elizabeth to the East India Company]]. This time, the pop-up is within the delete template. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:59, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*: Well, it just barges into the first thing it finds. They don't appear to be actively paying attention to tasks, and I don't expect them to pay attention to user feedback either, so this probably won't be fixed for a good while. My two cents are go disable it in your settings.
*: At least we've got the comfort most users don't see it.... But of course they make whatever surveys they want targeting whoever they want, so it's not that unlikely that this will become a problem for everyone in the near future.
*: Aaaahh, deploying breaking changes with no discussion, no warning, no community opt-out, and without listening to feedback. Becoming a habit, isn't it? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:43, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::It's showing up for me too.  Once I disable it on one project, then I get it on another.  Those of us who regularly visit multiple projects are going to be the most annoyed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:50, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::: Did you check the global settings? Perhaps there you can opt-out for all projects. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::I don't even have the option of using the same skin globally. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:28, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
*::::: That's weird. So like, when you go [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-rendering-skin here], you don't see a &quot;Skin&quot;, a checkbox on whether to make it a default setting, and radio buttons with the options? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:20, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Might I suggest the following solution? : &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#bodyContent .ext-quick-survey-panel {display:none;}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 00:57, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::There's a setting to always hide them; the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole (except through site css, but Xover is the only active intadmin and has shown much reticence to adding that kind of stuff (see [[MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Site.css#Overriding_V22_paragraph_spacing]])). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:18, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: If that is an issue, we can simply come to a consensus, as a community, that the QS system needs to be blocked, and direct him to make the appropriate changes reflecting that consensus. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 12:35, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:Yes, the reticence of one admin should not override community consensus, and Xover knows that as well as the rest of us :) (that being said, I think a proper proposal would be necessary to determine consensus for something like this) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:13, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::Is amending the user profile, as stated by Jan above, not a good enough solution ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:11, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::: From the technical standpoint, yes, changing site CSS is 99% sure to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:::As Alien333 said, the concern is about not being able to opt out the community as a whole - and you can't do that with the user profile. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:00, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

== Second pair of eyes for unclear letter ==

At [[Page:Poems Hornblower.djvu/110]], the last letter of {{tqi|Draw with their very breath—the poisonous faith}} is not super clear. I think I see the beginning of the arch of an h going right from the vertical bar after the t, but I'd appreciate if someone could give a quick look and confirm or not. (Compare also the {{tqi|faith}} from {{tqi|The world's cold faith,}} a few lines above.) Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:51, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:I think your assessment is good.  &quot;poisonous faith&quot; works with &quot;inglorious views&quot; and the soul straying from a &quot;diviner walk&quot;.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 21:02, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
::I agree; scans of different copies of the same book show the same misprinting ([https://books.google.com/books?id=ox1kAAAAcAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 BL], [https://books.google.com/books?id=fCQOAAAAQAAJ&amp;pg=PA98 Bod]), but the start of the arch of the 'h' is just visible in all. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:40, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to both. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:16, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== Call for Candidates for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
The results of voting on the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement Guidelines and Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) Charter is [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Annual review/2025#Results|available on Meta-wiki]].

You may now [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025/Candidates|submit your candidacy to serve on the U4C]] through 29 May 2025 at 12:00 UTC. Information about [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|eligibility, process, and the timeline are on Meta-wiki]]. Voting on candidates will open on 1 June 2025 and run for two weeks, closing on 15 June 2025 at 12:00 UTC.

If you have any questions, you can ask on [[m:Talk:Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2025|the discussion page for the election]]. -- in cooperation with the U4C, &lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[m:User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[m:User_talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]])&lt;/bdi&gt; 22:07, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Keegan (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=28618011 --&gt;

== Billingual template with Welsh Parliament Acts ==

The formatting problems that @[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] complained about in [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] could be fixed by using the {{tl|Bilingual}} template, however this creates its own formatting problems which I have shown at [[Wikisource:Sandbox]]. Additionally, the page numbers don't match up because the page numbers go up every second page due to the welsh version of a page using the same page number as the corresponding english version. Does anyone know how to fix this. 

Additionally, could someone make a version of the Bilingual template that could be more useful for longer works such as [[Index:Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2023 (ASC 2023-3 kp).pdf]] so whoever ends up working on that doesn't have to use the template over 200 times in one page. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:33, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:Not sure about the code for this, but would it be possible to transclude multiple pages at once like [[Template:Side by side]] using the &lt;code&gt;&lt;pages&gt;&lt;/code&gt; syntax, but reset the display each page so that the first lines of each page line up? I'm sure there's some struggle with that preserving the indents using colons like appears when using [[Template:Bilingual]]... [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 21:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
::The current practice for bitexts like this, is to transclude the English here, and the alternate pages at the Wikisource for the other language.  The two can then be linked to each other in the notes section of the header.  There are some exceptions here, and you can see an example at [[Modern Czech Poetry/October sonnet]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The Welsh elements of [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]] have been moved over to Welsh Wikisource, and the pages have been linked in Wikidata and mentioned in the notes section! [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:29, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[:File:Weird Tales Volume 13 Number 06 (1929-06).djvu]] ==

This was originally uploaded to Commons with pages that were still in copyright redacted. Those are now out of copyright. What is the best way to restore them ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:19, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:Upload a new version of the file over the top of what's there. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:52, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
: That's assuming that placeholders were left. If not, then we need to first shift the Page:s to give room for the added pages. I can do that; ping me if it's needed. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:15, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you both. Yes, on this one, there are blank pages where the text was redacted, so taht should work fine. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:03, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== HathiTrust ==

[[Help:Image extraction#HathiTrust]] no longer works me; when I try running it, I just get Error 403.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 08:27, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I haven't tried any programs myself, but there are a few image downloader programs for HathiTrust available on GitHub, [https://github.com/Addono/HathiTrust-downloader this one for example]. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of HathiTrust can vouch for a particular method. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:22, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Linking to Explanatory Notes for UK Legislation ==

@[[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] @[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] I've seen 3 different ways of linking to Explanatory Notes currently seen at [[Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Act 2021]], [[Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011]], and [[Specialist Printing Equipment and Materials (Offences) Act 2015]] and I feel like we should have some consistency with how we link to Explanatory Notes. How should we go about linking to Explanatory Notes. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:25, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I did Welsh as I did because the King's Printer version included a formal title page including the mention of the explanatory notes. With Fixed Term Parliaments, it doesn't have that page, so the inclusion of the note makes sense. We could add that to ones that do have the title page. I personally don't know if using the &quot;next&quot; parameter like in Specialist Printing is best, because it prevents us from using that parameter to link to the next act that year, if that's something we wanted to do. I know it's done in some other countries that have full years of acts transcluded. Similar issue in Fixed Term Parliaments using &quot;next&quot; for the Schedules.&lt;br&gt;
:I think best is to link things mentioned within the title/TOC like in [[Scotland Act 1998]], including Explanatory Notes if there, and then we can mention Explanatory Notes in the &quot;notes&quot; of the header, and leave &quot;previous&quot; and &quot;next&quot; for linking to surrounding acts. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:48, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

== Page marked historical ==

Heads up that I tagged [[Wikisource:Purchases]] with {{tl|historical}} since it hasn't actually been in use in several years. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:48, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: This project page is interesting and was unknown to me until just now. It is very similar to an idea that [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] and I have discussed recently, which would involve creating a centralized page in the Project namespace for requests for scans to be made where no scans appear to be accessible online (which would replace [[User:TE(æ)A,ea./Requests]] in their personal user space). My suggested name was either [[WS:Requests for scans]], or making that a section of the [[WS:Scan Lab]]. FYI, because of the inter-library loan (ILL) system, very few books would actually need to be ''bought'' in order to be scanned anymore (as far as I understand it), but buying should definitely be an option for those who are willing to donate the material, in cases where ILL is not possible. All in all, the Purchases page has merit conceptually, but in its current implementation inserting {{tl|historical}} was the right move. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:00, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-21 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The Editing Team and the Machine Learning Team are working on a new check for newcomers: [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check|Peacock check]]. Using a prediction model, this check will encourage editors to improve the tone of their edits, using artificial intelligence. We invite volunteers to review the first version of the Peacock language model for the following languages: Arabic, Spanish, Portuguese, English, and Japanese. Users from these wikis interested in reviewing this model are [[mw:Edit check/Peacock check/model test|invited to sign up at MediaWiki.org]]. The deadline to sign up is on May 23, which will be the start date of the test.

'''Updates for editors'''

* From May 20, 2025, [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Oversight policy|oversighters]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Meta:CheckUsers|checkusers]] will need to have their accounts secured with two-factor authentication (2FA) to be able to use their advanced rights. All users who belong to these two groups and do not have 2FA enabled have been informed. In the future, this requirement may be extended to other users with advanced rights. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Mandatory two-factor authentication for users with some extended rights|Learn more]].
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]]  [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|Multiblocks]] will begin mass deployment by the end of the month: all non-Wikipedia projects plus Catalan Wikipedia will adopt Multiblocks in the week of May 26, while all other Wikipedias will adopt it in the week of June 2. Please [[m:Talk:Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Multiblocks|contact the team]] if you have concerns. Administrators can test the new user interface now on your own wiki by browsing to [{{fullurl:Special:Block|usecodex=1}} {{#special:Block}}?usecodex=1], and can test the full multiblocks functionality [[testwiki:Special:Block|on testwiki]]. Multiblocks is the feature that makes it possible for administrators to impose different types of blocks on the same user at the same time. See the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|help page]] for more information. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* Later this week, the [[{{#special:SpecialPages}}]] listing of almost all special pages will be updated with a new design. This page has been [[phab:T219543|redesigned]] to improve the user experience in a few ways, including: The ability to search for names and aliases of the special pages, sorting, more visible marking of restricted special pages, and a more mobile-friendly look. The new version can be [https://meta.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:SpecialPages previewed] at Beta Cluster now, and feedback shared in the task. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219543]
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is being enabled on more wikis. For a detailed list of when the extension will be enabled on your wiki, please read the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart/Project#Deployment Timeline|deployment timeline]].
* [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Main Page|Wikifunctions]] will be deployed on May 27 on five Wiktionaries: [[wikt:ha:|Hausa]], [[wikt:ig:|Igbo]], [[wikt:bn:|Bengali]], [[wikt:ml:|Malayalam]], and [[wikt:dv:|Dhivehi/Maldivian]]. This is the second batch of deployment planned for the project. After deployment, the projects will be able to call [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Introduction|functions from Wikifunctions]] and integrate them in their pages. A function is something that takes one or more inputs and transforms them into a desired output, such as adding up two numbers, converting miles into metres, calculating how much time has passed since an event, or declining a word into a case. Wikifunctions will allow users to do that through a simple call of [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Catalogue|a stable and global function]], rather than via a local template.
* Later this week, the Wikimedia Foundation will publish a hub for [[diffblog:2024/07/09/on-the-value-of-experimentation/|experiments]]. This is to showcase and get user feedback on product experiments. The experiments help the Wikimedia movement [[diffblog:2023/07/13/exploring-paths-for-the-future-of-free-knowledge-new-wikipedia-chatgpt-plugin-leveraging-rich-media-social-apps-and-other-experiments/|understand new users]], how they interact with the internet and how it could affect the Wikimedia movement. Some examples are [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Generated Video|generated video]], the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Roblox game|Wikipedia Roblox speedrun game]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Future Audiences/Discord bot|the Discord bot]].
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:29}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:29|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, there was a bug with creating an account using the API, which has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T390751]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Gadgets and user scripts that interact with [[{{#special:Block}}]] may need to be updated to work with the new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Manage blocks|manage blocks interface]]. Please review the [[mw:Help:Manage blocks/Developers|developer guide]] for more information. If you need help or are unable to adapt your script to the new interface, please let the team know on the [[mw:Help talk:Manage blocks/Developers|talk page]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T377121]
* The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.title&lt;/code&gt; object allows you to get information about a specific wiki page in the [[w:en:Wikipedia:Lua|Lua]] programming language. Starting this week, a new property will be added to the object, named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;isDisambiguationPage&lt;/code&gt;. This property allows you to check if a page is a disambiguation page, without the need to write a custom function. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T71441]
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|15px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] User script developers can use a [[toolforge:gitlab-content|new reverse proxy tool]] to load javascript and css from [[gitlab:|gitlab.wikimedia.org]] with &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mw.loader.load&lt;/code&gt;. The tool's author hopes this will enable collaborative development workflows for user scripts including linting, unit tests, code generation, and code review on &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;gitlab.wikimedia.org&lt;/bdi&gt; without a separate copy-and-paste step to publish scripts to a Wikimedia wiki for integration and acceptance testing. See [[wikitech:Tool:Gitlab-content|Tool:Gitlab-content on Wikitech]] for more information.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.2|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* The 12th edition of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wiki Workshop 2025|Wiki Workshop 2025]], a forum that brings together researchers that explore all aspects of Wikimedia projects, will be held virtually on 21-22 May. Researchers can [https://pretix.eu/wikimedia/wikiworkshop2025/ register now].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/21|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W21&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 23:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28724712 --&gt;

== RfC ongoing regarding Abstract Wikipedia (and your project) ==

&lt;div lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;
''(Apologies for posting in English, if this is not your first language)''

Hello all! We opened a discussion on Meta about a very delicate issue for the development of [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]]: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. Since some of the hypothesis involve your project, we wanted to hear your thoughts too. 

We want to make the decision process clear: we do not yet know which option we want to use, which is why we are consulting here. We will take the arguments from the Wikimedia communities into account, and we want to consult with the different communities and hear arguments that will help us with the decision. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

You can read the various hypothesis and have your say at [[:m:Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]]. Thank you in advance! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|&lt;span class=&quot;signature-talk&quot;&gt;{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}&lt;/span&gt;]]) 15:27, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Sannita_(WMF)/Mass_sending_test&amp;oldid=28768453 --&gt;

== Weird Tales file and index with incorrect name ==

[[Index:Weird Tales Volume 02 Number 2 (1937-02).djvu]] should say Volume 29. Do you think I should ask for the file on Commons to be moved, and then to have the index and pages here moved ? Or just leave it as it is ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:15, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
: Given some of it is already transcluded, and that the index is not exposed to the end reader, I'd say leaving a comment like {{tqi|(typo in file name)}} in the index title field would be enough of a clarification. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 04:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::OK - thanks. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:39, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== Official Launch of The Million Wiki Project ==

We are thrilled to announce the official launch of [[m:The_Million_Wiki_Project|The Million Wiki Project!]]
[[File:Million Wiki Logo - Colored.svg|200px|right]]
Our mission is to enrich Wikimedia projects with high-quality and diverse content related to the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region. This initiative focuses on creating new articles, multimedia, structured data, and more, covering topics from MENA countries, communities, and diaspora worldwide.

'''Who Can Participate?'''&lt;br&gt;
All registered Wikimedians are welcome to join! Whether you're an individual contributor or part of an organization, your support is valuable. We encourage content creation in any of the six official UN languages (Arabic, English, French, Russian, Spanish, and soon Chinese).

'''What Kind of Content Are We Looking For?'''

* New Wikipedia articles focused on MENA topics
* Multimedia contributions on Wikimedia Commons (photos, videos)
* Structured data for Wikidata
* Language entries on Wiktionary
* Public domain texts on Wikisource

Note: Make sure your content follows local Wikimedia guidelines and licensing policies, including Freedom of Panorama for media files.

Join us in bridging content gaps and showcasing the richness of the MENA region on Wikimedia platforms! &lt;br&gt;
Stay tuned for more updates and participation guidelines. [[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 09:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== New texts list ==

Does a work count as &quot;complete&quot; for the purposes of the new texts list if the book has an index which has not been transcribed nor transcluded ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:56, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
: No. There have been multiple discussions, notably at [[Template talk:New texts]], where a consensus emerged that a work must be proofread and transcluded (but that there was not a need for validation). If you find an unproofread/untranscluded work, you can remove it.
: Sometimes sub-works that are works in their own right without the others (such a play in a collection of plays) also get listed on new text; for such works, it looks like the pratice is to only require that their part of the index be proofread and transcluded. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Radio Times ==

Please join the discussion at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:35, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Beginner's guide to copyright missing a key issue ==

Please could someone add a bullet point to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] about what happens regarding the hosting of scans of works which are considered out-of-copyright by this Wikisource, but not by Wikimedia Commons (for example, where they are still in copyright in Europe, but not the US)? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:30, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

:That's not a copyright concern, but a compatibility concern, so it's covered at [[Help:Licensing compatibility]], which is linked from the bottom of the page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:55, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::It is a copyright concern, and is not about licensing.
::The page to which I referred is styled as a guide for ''Beginners'', and is where a beginner would reasonably look for such information. The page already discusses how other Wikimedia projects choose to respect non-United States copyright law, in contrast to this project, so the additional point under discussion is relevant there.
::Furthermore, the subject is not covered at Help:Licensing compatibility, which includes only one mention of Wikimedia Commons; and that in a section which does not touch on the issue I mention, but is in a section about discussions of the prohibition of &quot;no derivative&quot; clauses. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The &quot;Beginner's guide to copyright&quot; is about copyright itself.  Where our files are stored is not an issue of copyright law.  The Licensing compatibility covers which items are allowed to be hosted here, which ''is'' affected by copyright status, but copyright is ''not'' the only concern, there are other licensing issues that affect what can be hosted here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:37, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Whether a file is stored locally rather than on Commons if often decided ''solely'' on it's copyright status, which is in turn wholly a factor of copyright law.
::::Again: the licensing compatability page does not mention this issue ''at all''.
::::Again: this is not a matter of ''licensing''. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So then, you're looking for [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]]?  Again, where to upload a file may be ''affected'' by the copyright status of the work, but it's not a part of copyright law. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:26, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, I am not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:31, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::This is the page that says: &quot;Usually, the DjVu or PDF file should be uploaded directly to Wikimedia Commons (one of Wikisource's sister sites that holds images and files for general use).  However, Commons chooses to respect the copyright laws of the home country of any work, which Wikisource does not.  In cases where non-United States publications are in the public domain in the United States but not in their home countries, they should be uploaded directly to Wikisource instead.  This method is the same as the method to upload and add images.&quot;  Is that not what you are asking about? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:38, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::No. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:43, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Can you please clarify then? Because this looks to me to be exactly what you were asking about at the start of this thread. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

=== Clarity of Help page ===
User:Pigsonthewing has made [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3ABeginner%27s_guide_to_copyright&amp;oldid=prev&amp;diff=15092053 this change] to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]], with the comment &quot;This is not tangent; it relates directly to the page's pre-existing point about projects &quot;choose to respect non-United States copyright law. English Wikisource does not&quot; and hinges directly on the copyright status of works concerned&quot;

My concern is that this inserts a second tangential issue into a set of paragraphs explaining copyright law.

The text looks like this with the added text in '''bold''':

{{blockquote|
; Non-United States publications
The rules about non-United States publications can get complicated.

Some works may be in the public domain in the United States even if they are still under copyright in their home countries '''(these works should be uploaded directly to Wikisource, not Wikimedia Commons)'''. Other works may be in the public domain in their home countries but still under copyright in the United States '''(these works are not eligible for inclusion on this Wikisource'''.

For example, the last collection of Sherlock Holmes stories, ''[[The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes]]'', was published in 1927
}}

The text is concerned with the copyright status of works, not with the uploading of files.  The added text is concerned with the uploading of files, which is discussed on the page [[Help:Beginner's guide to sources]], which has a section devoted to the uploading of source files.

I believe the additions to [[Help:Beginner's guide to copyright]] are intrusive, because they insert a second topic into a paragraph that is already about a complicated topic.  I also believe they are superfluous, because we already have a Beginner's guide page that explains where to upload files. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:03, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-22 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* A community-wide discussion about a very delicate issue for the development of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia|Abstract Wikipedia]] is now open on Meta: where to store the abstract content that will be developed through functions from Wikifunctions and data from Wikidata. The discussion is open until June 12 at [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content|Abstract Wikipedia/Location of Abstract Content]], and every opinion is welcomed. The decision will be made and communicated after the consultation period by the Foundation.

'''Updates for editors'''
* Since last week, on all wikis except [[phab:T388604|the largest 20]], people using the mobile visual editor will have [[phab:T385851|additional tools in the menu bar]], accessed using the new &lt;code&gt;+&lt;/code&gt; toolbar button. To start, the new menu will include options to add: citations, hieroglyphs, and code blocks. Deployment to the remaining wikis is [[phab:T388605|scheduled]] to happen in June.
* [[File:Octicons-tools.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Advanced item]] The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexist|#ifexist]]&lt;/code&gt; parser function will no longer register a link to its target page. This will improve the usefulness of [[{{#special:WantedPages}}]], which will eventually only list pages that are the target of an actual red link. This change will happen gradually as the source pages are updated. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T14019]
* This week, the Moderator Tools team will launch [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], starting at Indonesian Wikipedia. This new filter highlights edits that are likely to be reverted. The goal is to help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic edits. Other wikis will benefit from this filter in the future.
* Upon clicking an empty search bar, logged-out users will see suggestions of articles for further reading. The feature will be available on both desktop and mobile. Readers of Catalan, Hebrew, and Italian Wikipedias and some sister projects will receive the change between May 21 and mid-June. Readers of other wikis will receive the change later. The goal is to encourage users to read the wikis more. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Reading/Web/Content Discovery Experiments/Search Suggestions|Learn more]].
* Some users of the Wikipedia Android app can use a new feature for readers, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Apps/Team/Android/TrivaGame|WikiGames]], a daily trivia game based on real historical events. The release has started as an A/B test, available to 50% of users in the following languages: English, French, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, and Turkish.
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Newsletter|Newsletter extension]] that is available on MediaWiki.org allows the creation of [[mw:Special:Newsletters|various newsletters]] for global users. The extension can now publish new issues as section links on an existing page, instead of requiring a new page for each issue. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T393844]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:32}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:32|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* The previously deprecated &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Ipblocks table|ipblocks]]&lt;/code&gt; views in [[wikitech:Help:Wiki Replicas|Wiki Replicas]] will be removed in the beginning of June. Users are encouraged to query the new &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block table|block]]&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;[[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Block target table|block_target]]&lt;/code&gt; views instead.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.3|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects|Wikidata and Sister Projects]] is a multi-day online event that will focus on how Wikidata is integrated to Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. The event runs from May 29 – June 1. You can [[d:Special:MyLanguage/Event:Wikidata and Sister Projects#Sessions|read the Program schedule]] and [[d:Special:RegisterForEvent/1291|register]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W22&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 20:04, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
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== Works as a header ==

Is &quot;Works&quot; by itself as a header in Portals meant to be read as &quot;Works by&quot; or &quot;Works about&quot;? I see it mostly used to mean &quot;Works by&quot; when I see it in Author space and it is separated into &quot;Works by&quot; and &quot;Works about&quot; when the two exist. That is why it looks odd in location Portal space as in [[Portal:Westbrookville, New York]]. IT looks like it the works were written by the location. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 03:15, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: I replaced the L2 &quot;Works about ...&quot; to &quot;Works&quot; to keep it consistent with what's done on most other portal entries on the site. &quot;Works&quot; here means &quot;Works about&quot;. However, as of right now there appears to be no official standard for which header to use. [[Wikisource:Portal guidelines]] and [[Help:Portals]] say nothing about a &quot;Works&quot; section or &quot;Works about&quot; section.
: If &quot;Works&quot; sections should be changed to &quot;Works about&quot; by some informal vote here, then it's probably best to make it an official policy. We should consider also using bots to keep up with the maintenance that would be required to standardize all portal L2s one way or the other.
: Wikisource lacking structure is a massive problem here IMO, since for example Wiktionary has their quite detailed &quot;[[wikt:WT:ELE|Entry layout explained]]&quot; policy page, while the typical Wikisource culture is just to sorta do whatever we want in most areas that could be given a ruleset. This makes things like parsing our content especially difficult, for example. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 18:06, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::However, there are a number of portals where &quot;works by&quot; is applicable - government departments, for example. 
::If we want to be consistent, I think it would be best to have the same policy for both Authors and Portals. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:39, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::That would not make sense for Portals unless they are People Portals.  We would never have &quot;Works by Philosophy&quot; as a header.  And on any larger Portal, it also makes no sense to have a &quot;Works about&quot; header, since potentially everything on the Portal is about the subject of the Portal.  But there are also Portals where the content is '''neither''' by nor about; for example [[Portal:French literature]], where the works ''are'' French literature, and not work written by French literature, nor works about French literature. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:44, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Red link in Monthly Challenge ==

There is a red link in the monthly challenge for [[Author:Department of Defense]] - I understand that author page should not be created. Should that link instead to [[Portal:United States Department of Defense]] ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:42, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

:Yes. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:45, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::Please could somebody make that change - the work is &quot;United States – Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967&quot;. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:40, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::: {{done}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Cheers. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees 2025 Selection &amp; Call for Questions ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;
:''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement|{{int:interlanguage-link-mul}}]] • [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&amp;group=page-{{urlencode:Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Announcement/Selection announcement}}&amp;language=&amp;action=page&amp;filter= {{int:please-translate}}]''

Dear all,

This year, the term of 2 (two) Community- and Affiliate-selected Trustees on the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees will come to an end [1]. The Board invites the whole movement to participate in this year’s selection process and vote to fill those seats.

The Elections Committee will oversee this process with support from Foundation staff [2]. The Governance Committee, composed of trustees who are not candidates in the 2025 community-and-affiliate-selected trustee selection process (Raju Narisetti, Shani Evenstein Sigalov, Lorenzo Losa, Kathy Collins, Victoria Doronina and Esra’a Al Shafei) [3], is tasked with providing Board oversight for the 2025 trustee selection process and for keeping the Board informed. More details on the roles of the Elections Committee, Board, and staff are here [4].

Here are the key planned dates:

* May 22 – June 5: Announcement (this communication) and call for questions period [6]
* June 17 – July 1, 2025: Call for candidates
* July 2025: If needed, affiliates vote to shortlist candidates if more than 10 apply [5]
* August 2025: Campaign period
* August – September 2025: Two-week community voting period
* October – November 2025: Background check of selected candidates
* Board’s Meeting in December 2025: New trustees seated

Learn more about the 2025 selection process - including the detailed timeline, the candidacy process, the campaign rules, and the voter eligibility criteria - on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025|[link]]].

'''Call for Questions'''

In each selection process, the community has the opportunity to submit questions for the Board of Trustees candidates to answer. The Election Committee selects questions from the list developed by the community for the candidates to answer. Candidates must answer all the required questions in the application in order to be eligible; otherwise their application will be disqualified. This year, the Election Committee will select 5 questions for the candidates to answer. The selected questions may be a combination of what’s been submitted from the community, if they’re alike or related. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates|[link]]]

'''Election Volunteers'''

Another way to be involved with the 2025 selection process is to be an Election Volunteer. Election Volunteers are a bridge between the Elections Committee and their respective community. They help ensure their community is represented and mobilize them to vote. Learn more about the program and how to join on this Meta-wiki page [[m:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Election_volunteers|[link].]]

Thank you!

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2022/Results

[2] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Committee:Elections_Committee_Charter

[3] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Committee_Membership,_December_2024

[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections_committee/Roles

[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/FAQ

[6] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Questions_for_candidates

Best regards,

Victoria Doronina

Board Liaison to the Elections Committee

Governance Committee&lt;section end=&quot;announcement-content&quot; /&gt;

[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 03:08, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:RamzyM (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=28618011 --&gt;

== We are looking for a pilot for our new feature, Favourite Templates ==

Hello everyone! [[meta:Community Tech|Community Tech]] are building a new feature, called [[metawiki:Community_Wishlist/Focus_areas/Template_recall_and_discovery|Favourite Templates]], that will provide a better way for new and experienced contributors to recall and discover templates via the template dialog, that works with both VisualEditor and wikitext editor. We hope this will increase dialog usage and the number of templates added.

Since 2013, experienced volunteers have asked for a more intuitive template selector, exposing popular or most-used templates on the template dialog. At this stage of work, we are focusing on allowing users to put templates in a “favourite” list, so that their reuse will be easier. At a later stage, we will focus on helping users discover or find templates.

We are looking for potential additional testers for Favourite Templates, and we thought you might be interested in trying it out. If so, please let us know if it is the case, we would be happy to set up a pilot. So far, the feature has been deployed successfully on Polish and Arabic Wikipedia, and we’re currently in talks with other projects for expanding the pilot phase.

In addition, we’d love to hear your feedback and ideas for helping people find and insert templates. Some ideas we’ve identified are searching or browsing templates by category, or showing the number of times a template has been transcluded.

Of course, we are ready to answer your questions and to give you all the information you need. Thanks in advance!

—[[User:SWilson (WMF)|SWilson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SWilson (WMF)|talk]]) 05:23, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== DTIC file - Colors in Terrain ==


Is this PD-US-Gov?

https://archive.org/details/DTIC_ADA277204/page/n3/mode/2up

If so I'd like to put it on Wikisource. In addition it would be appreciated if someone with expertise could advise on how to reconstruct the XYZ values from the xy and luminance factors given.  This is so I can make used of the dataset (with citation) in respect of other projects. (I would of course be happy with a relevant color chart being constructed as a semi-formal academic paper over on Wikiversity.)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:52, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think, unfortunately, it is not PD-US-Gov. I don't believe US Gov contractors count as federal employees for the purpose of copyright law, and the [https://www.acquisition.gov/far/27.404-3 Federal Acquisition Regulation 27.404-3] specifically outlines that contractor producers of scientific and technical reports have blanket permission to reassert copyright on their research. That same regulation notes that the free unlimited distribution license which is noted on the document is just to the US Gov; I don't believe the public can tap into that license to redistribute.
:Perhaps someone with more US Gov works experience can chime in though. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 23:13, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

: Bother. Looks like I'll have to find the original journal articles directly then. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:38, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
: The source dataset seems to be a 1940's translation published in Canada of a 1943 Russian language work, This gets interesting. Can someone dig a little deeper? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Have we lost some Validated Indexes? ==

On 11 Sept. 2024 I updated [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] with our 6500th completed index. I just went to check on progress to the next milestone of 7000 only to discover that there are only 5284 in [[:Category:Index Validated]]. How and when did we lose over 1500 validated Indexes? [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:19, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
: I place my bet on the index lua error from two months and a half ago. We have ~12k indexes that just don't have ''any'' categories (out of 35583 total indexes). I think some of those affected by the bug had all their Page:s already transcluded, and so the Page:s didn't count as orphan and we didn't find them yet. The categorylink table must just have not been updated. Confirmation of this: The first thus uncategorised index reported when I queried was [[Index:! Explosive objects in War in Ukraine, 2022 (01).jpg]]. It had page_links_updated set to 20250311190213, which is 11 march, the date of the lua index error. On a null edit, it disappeared from the list. We probably ought to get 'round to null-editing all these indexes. I'm really busy these days but I could patch up some code next week. 12k is not that much. If we say one null edit/min that makes 12k minutes, or 200 hours, or just over a week. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:07, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (FYI: the complete list is [https://quarry.wmcloud.org/query/94236 here]. To refresh (you need to have forked) just re-submit. Replag aside, should update instantaneously.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:24, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Hadn't thought of that, despite the fact that I've been null-editing Indexes via LonelyPages every three days. I'm part way through G with another update due this evening (my time). Any Index that is not pdf or djvu has been skipped over. Where there are Pages without an Index, I've left them for investigation later. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 17:58, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Any specific reason for skipping non-pdf/djvu indexes? Normally they should work like others. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:01, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Because the listing in LonelyPages is the Page namespace and the link to the Index doesn't appear as a tab in the same way. Thus easier to ignore at present and then deal with as a group later. I much prefer dealing with a single workflow at a time. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::By the way - the orphaned pages listing was actually updated yesterday - it starts again on the first of the month,
::::::I have been trying to reduce the main pages on the orphaned pages list. A number of those have been works transcluded but affected by the index lua error. (And so not linked from anywhere else). I have tried adding other links as well. Of course, this means that main pages affected by the lua error do not show there if they already were linked from elsewhere. --
::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::: @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] and [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] : the query I linked to above ''does'' give an exhaustive list, transclusion or no transclusion, exploiting the fact that broken indexes lost their categories. It also gives the indexes not the pages, so there's no trouble of reaching the index from the pages. If you want, I can reasonably easily get the list into a wikipage with links (as opposed to the quarry result of just page names). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:37, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I've made a list at [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]]. Having already dealt with some, it's reduced in size by ca. 500 from the initial. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:21, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: Would you mind other editors editing that page? So we can remove those that are done and keep track of where we're at. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:41, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I've forked the query to select .djvu indexes (&lt;code&gt;page_title like '%.djvu'&lt;/code&gt;). 3600 are remaining. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 10:52, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::: Welp, we do also have to do the PDFs. It's not a good thing, but many indexes are done PDF. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:54, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I have no problems with other editors editing the page. Keeping track and not duplicating effort is always good. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 22:33, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All DjVu indexes done. The page is updated. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All jpg, jpeg, webm indexes done. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::All not .pdf indexes done (6,818). [[User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox2]] updated. Now 5,641 pages in Category:Index Validated • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The proposed query has to be modified, ~2000 indexes having categories other than &quot;Index:...&quot;.
::::::::::::I have used as a jointure: 
:::::::::::::&lt;code&gt;and page_id not in ( select cl_from  from categorylinks   where cl_to like 'Index%' )&lt;/code&gt;
::::::::::::to get a new list. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:29, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: &lt;code&gt; AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM categorylinks WHERE cl_from = page_id AND cl_to LIKE 'Index%')&lt;/code&gt; is probably faster. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::: As a side note, I found why these indexes have some of their cats but not all: the categories that are added manually are actually out of the template; so when the template broke, they only lost the categories that relied on it; which means the status cats &amp;co, but not the manual ones. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:56, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::All Indexes in the second list are now null-edited and [[:Category:Index Validated]] is at 6953, which approximately what I was expecting to see. There are only 141 in the Validated category that need to have their transclusion status checked. Thanks to {{ping|M-le-mot-dit}} for the assistance on getting all the Indexes null-edited so quickly. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 09:42, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:The milestone of 7000 Validated indexes was reached yesterday. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 07:57, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (I think it's [[Index:Skyes Picot, The Manchester Guardian, Monday, November 26, 1917, p5.jpg]].) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The Category contains a template ({{tl|Proofreadpage_index_template/testcases}}), so it may be [[Index:The President's Proclamation (Proctor, 1963).jpg]]. Quarry gives 7004 indexes. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 08:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Indeed, good catch! :) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:13, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::It was indeed The President's Proclamation. [[Portal:Proofreading milestones]] has been updated. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-23 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Chart extension]] is now available on all Wikimedia wikis. Editors can use this new extension to create interactive data visualizations like bar, line, area, and pie charts. Charts are designed to replace many of the uses of the legacy [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Graph|Graph extension]].

'''Updates for editors'''
* It is now easier to configure automatic citations for your wiki within the visual editor's [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Citoid/Enabling Citoid on your wiki|citation generator]]. Administrators can now set a default template by using the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;_default&lt;/code&gt; key in the local &lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[MediaWiki:Citoid-template-type-map.json]]&lt;/bdi&gt; page ([[mw:Special:Diff/6969653/7646386|example diff]]). Setting this default will also help to future-proof your existing configurations when [[phab:T347823|new item types]] are added in the future. You can still set templates for individual item types as they will be preferred to the default template. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384709]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:20}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:20|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Starting the week of June 2, bots logging in using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=clientlogin&lt;/code&gt; will fail more often. This is because of stronger protections against suspicious logins. Bots using [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Bot passwords|bot passwords]] or using a loginless authentication method such as [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/OAuth/Owner-only consumers|OAuth]] are not affected. If your bot is not using one of those, you should update it; using &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;action=login&lt;/code&gt; without a bot password was deprecated [[listarchive:list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/3EEMN7VQX5G7WMQI5K2GP5JC2336DPTD/|in 2016]]. For most bots, this only requires changing what password the bot uses. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T395205]
* From this week, Wikimedia wikis will allow ES2017 features in JavaScript code for official code, gadgets, and user scripts. The most visible feature of ES2017 is &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;code&gt;async&lt;/code&gt;/&lt;code&gt;await&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/bdi&gt; syntax, allowing for easier-to-read code. Until this week, the platform only allowed up to ES2016, and a few months before that, up to ES2015. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T381537]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.4|MediaWiki]]

'''Meetings and events'''
* Scholarship applications to participate in the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025|GLAM Wiki Conference 2025]] are now open. The conference will take place from 30 October to 1 November, in Lisbon, Portugal. GLAM contributors who lack the means to support their participation can [[m:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM Wiki 2025/Scholarships|apply here]]. Scholarship applications close on June 7th.

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/23|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W23&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 23:54, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
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== Copyright status of a work. ==

This is listed as public domain on Hathi:-
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31210024780379&amp;seq=15

However, it contains apparenty reprints of papers published in other works, which may need additional evalaution.

The author of the papers seems to have been an active Employee at the NBS (later NIST), So can someone make a determination as to this work's potential inclusion in Wikisource, given that the works itself is Federal?. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:00, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}} I've sent the NIST an email, hopefully they reply. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:54, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: The concern is that some of the papers appear to be published in Journals, which given the dates would have had active registrations, (even if the individual author concerned didn't make individual periodical ones.). [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:05, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00}}
:This is the response from the NIST:
:&quot;Hi,
:Generally, official writings by federal employees are not subject to copyright protection within the United States (a narrow exception to this policy exists in the case of Standard Reference Data published under the provisions of the Standard Reference Data Act (Public Law 90-396). The Act permits NIST to copyright Standard Reference Data.  Click here for more information.)  However, the government may be able to assert copyright in countries other than the United States.  When official writings by NIST employees, except those covered under the Standard Reference Data Act, are submitted to a non-NIST publication, a statement should be included indicating that the material is not subject to copyright protection within the United States. If you are asked to sign a publication permission form, you should have it reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST prior to signing.  Some journals will accept our copyright form. (In fact, some journals will request this copyright form.) (External co-authors may be asked to sign an agreement transferring their copyright to the publisher, which they may choose to do.)
:Sample statement: Official contribution of the National Institute of Standards and Technology; not subject to copyright in the United States.
:Note that in most instances NIST Research Associates could assert copyright but may have agreed not to assert US copyright in their work done at NIST when they signed their NIST Associate’s Agreement. Whether or not to include the ‘not subject to copyright in the United States’ statement on manuscripts jointly authored by federal NIST employees and NIST Associates is a factual matter to be determined when the publication is drafted.
:If you are asked to sign a publisher’s agreement for your publication that agreement must first be reviewed by the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.
:If you encounter any problems with a publisher, or need any help, contact the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST.&quot;
:I think this is a yes, thoughts? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 11:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: Hmm, so that says NIST Research Associate works without other notices, are possibles. However, in respect of this specifc collection, some of the later articles are from Journals with their own copyrights and thus can't be included (because of the Journal Copyright, rather than the contributors.). On that basis, the original papers will have to be tracked down and evaluated on a paper by paper basis. 
:BTW for a Government agency, that response is suprisingly clear for our purposes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Colour vs b/w image? ==

Hi, I was finding the image for [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Taming_Liquid_Hydrogen_The_Centaur_Upper_Stage_Rocket.pdf/58]. For this text, instead of extracting from the low quality PDF, since they are all catalogued NASA images, I have just looked up the image IDs and downloaded them directly from the NASA/DVIDS website. However, for this specific page, the image is black and white, but I found a high-quality colour version at [https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/historic-facilities/rocket-engine-test-facility/retf-staff/]. What should I do? Use the colour version as is or convert it to black/white first? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:29, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: My 2¢ would be convert it to black &amp; white, as that's what the source has. The low-quality is very probably due to bad scanning. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 22:15, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== 'Indexes validated in [month]' category ==

Why does [[Index:Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf]] appear in [[:Category:Indexes validated in June 2025]], yet [[Index:Reference to some of the works executed in stained glass - William Raphael Eginton.pdf]] does not? &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:46, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

:I expect it is because the former has an  entry in the box &quot;Validation date&quot; and the latter has that box blank. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:59, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]], @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] It is not longer blank now! But yes, you do have to manually fill in the validation date box, by editing the index page. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:01, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. (Though the index page was amended to show all validated in May.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:18, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:::[https://petscan.wmcloud.org/?psid=35284922 Petscan] lists 136 indexes in the above situation. • [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit#top|talk]]) 09:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::I've sorted 96 of them, but need to call it a night. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 10:14, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Monthly Challenge colors on dark mode ==

For some reason the colors for the to fix header and the to proofread headers are swapped on dark mode. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 02:34, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: There where some muck-ups in the templates between the statuses (essentially, the classes were swapped and so the colors were swapped again to make it right). Caused some confusion when adding dark mode compat. Should be solved. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::Sorry for the mess up and thanks for the fix by the way! —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Thinking REALLY big.. ==

Back in 2020, Fae mirrored PDF's of copyright records on IA to Commons.

Is there a contributor here that is willing to set up Index: here for post 1950's volumes?  

The thought was that it might be a way of finding works that might expire in the next few years, and if the renewals were looked into 
post 1930(rolling) volumes that might also be in scope for the period 1940 to 1950.  Other publications note a Fourth Series which continued to 1982(?) but those entries should already be in the online system. 

&quot;Mars-shot&quot; project, but worth it, if the transcription generated can be fed back into Wikidata as well.  This wouldn't be a project I'd focus on personally, my watchlist is already at 'life's work' length, but I felt this was something to be worked out. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Get IIIF working again. ==
Previously, inductiveload had a script ([[User:Inductiveload/jump_to_file]]) which helped improve the scans presented, by pulling them directly from hathi or IA, rather than  using the lower quality PDF present on Wikisource. 

Due to changes at IA ( URL in the script needs updating), this script stopped functioning.  Can someone PLEASE look into getting this working again, as it greatly assists in the transcription of works, where the PDF quality is exceptionally poor due to over compression or otherwise?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:04, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: As I already told you, the issue is with a line that has to be changed in the toolforge tool's code. See [[phab:T356227|T356227]]. This requires usurpation of the tool (given IL is gone at least for now); which is not easy to get. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:30, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: Thank you. So what could be a useful project is effectively stalled, because of 3 letters in old code, which can't be easily updated because the tool maintainer is absent. {{ping|Sohom Datta}} Another contributor attempted to fix this by patching the url on the Wikisource, but I couldn't get that technique to work.  The endpoint that the toolforge script uses now gives Error 500 suggesting it wasn't a priority to repair or was migrated.)..  As detailed in the phabricator ticket it's 4 characters in a single file that need changing.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:58, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

: The project I refer to is above. a Marshsot project on the Catalog of Copyright Entries. (Yes I has strait jacket to hand! :lol:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:39, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

When 5 years after a massive upload, you find it isn't in a good quality:(.. 

I'm going to need some time to consider if I even attempt to work with this, and I am wondering if it's worth it, unless the PDF quality issue is resolved. Others here are working on making the hi-resimage loader work again, provided of course the endpoint it uses remains available. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 17:12, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-24 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product|Trust and Safety Product team]] is finalizing work needed to roll out [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|temporary accounts]] on large Wikipedias later this month. The team has worked with stewards and other users with extended rights to predict and address many use cases that may arise on larger wikis, so that community members can continue to effectively moderate and patrol temporary accounts. This will be the second of three phases of deployment – the last one will take place in September at the earliest. For more information about the recent developments on the project, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts/Updates|see this update]]. If you have any comments or questions, write on the [[mw:Talk:Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|talk page]], and [[m:Event:CEE Catch up Nr. 10 (June 2025)|join a CEE Catch Up]] this Tuesday.

'''Updates for editors'''
* [[File:Octicons-gift.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]] The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Watchlist expiry|watchlist expiry]] feature allows editors to watch pages for a limited period of time. After that period, the page is automatically removed from your watchlist. Starting this week, you can set a preference for the default period of time to watch pages. The [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist-pageswatchlist|preferences]] also allow you to set different default watch periods for editing existing pages, pages you create, and when using rollback. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T265716]
[[File:Talk pages default look (April 2023).jpg|thumb|alt=Screenshot of the visual improvements made on talk pages|Example of a talk page with the new design, in French.]]
* The appearance of talk pages will change at almost all Wikipedias ([[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2024/19|some]] have already received this design change, [[phab:T379264|a few]] will get these changes later). You can read details about the changes [[diffblog:2024/05/02/making-talk-pages-better-for-everyone/|on ''Diff'']]. It is possible to opt out of these changes [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion|in user preferences]] (&quot;{{int:discussiontools-preference-visualenhancements}}&quot;). [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T319146][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T392121]
* Users with specific extended rights (including administrators, bureaucrats, checkusers, oversighters, and stewards) can now have IP addresses of all temporary accounts [[phab:T358853|revealed automatically]] during time-limited periods where they need to combat high-speed account-hopping vandalism. This feature was requested by stewards. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T386492]
* This week, the Moderator Tools and Machine Learning teams will continue the rollout of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|a new filter to Recent Changes]], releasing it to several more Wikipedias. This filter utilizes the Revert Risk model, which was created by the Research team, to highlight edits that are likely to be reverted and help Recent Changes patrollers identify potentially problematic contributions. The feature will be rolled out to the following Wikipedias: {{int:project-localized-name-afwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-bnwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-cywiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-hawwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-iswiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-kkwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-simplewiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-trwiki/en}}. The rollout will continue in the coming weeks to include [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/2025 RecentChanges Language Agnostic Revert Risk Filtering|the rest of the Wikipedias in this project]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T391964]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* AbuseFilter editors active on Meta-Wiki and large Wikipedias are kindly asked to update AbuseFilter to make it compatible with temporary accounts. A link to the instructions and the private lists of filters needing verification are [[phab:T369611|available on Phabricator]].
* Lua modules now have access to the name of a page's associated thumbnail image, and on [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/operations/mediawiki-config/+/2e4ab14aa15bb95568f9c07dd777065901eb2126/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php#10849 some wikis] to the WikiProject assessment information. This is possible using two new properties on [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#added-by-extensions|mw.title objects]], named &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageImage&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;pageAssessments&lt;/code&gt;. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T131911][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T380122]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.5|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/24|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W24&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 01:16, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28846858 --&gt;
:NOTE: The default watchlist expiry time feature isn't available on here and it isn't available on enwiki or commons either. It ''is'' available on mediawikiwiki though, and I'm not sure why. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: See [[wikitech:Deployment train#Groups]]. In a nutshell: mediawiki updates are progressively rolled out in groups; we're in group 2, so we get them on wednesdays; as opposed to mediawikiwiki being in group 1 (tuesday) and enwiki being in group 3 (thursday). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you for explaining! [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 16:55, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family (archive.org)]] ==

This states that the source was ftp://ia340915.us.archive.org/1/items/LovecraftInPdfFormat/a_jermyn.pdf - trying that link did not work for me, and trying to find this item on Internet Archive gave me nothing. Anyone have any ideas where this source might be ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: That link uses the FTP protocol. Switching to http or https gives a 500 error.
: It also is a link to the direct file as opposed to the IA item.
: However, I can't find any item with such a name either.
: Possibly it was pulled out of IA's collections, but that would seem strange (pre-1930 publication). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. Wikipedia indicates that the story was only published under that title in 1986, so I assume that it was taken from a later collection. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:20, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Ah, that would explain IA pulling it out of their collections. In the last few months they've pulled out a lot of stuff which was plausibly PD (probably afraid of getting sued to death). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:25, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::::And, of course, shows a danger in not uploading the scan to Commons or here.
::::We now have a scan-backed copy of the story from the original Weird Tales printing, and a Weird Tales reprint available for transcription. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Bayonne Times need a link to Wikidata ==

Can someone link The Bayonne Times here at Wikisource to Wikidata Q118610753. Usually a bot does this, so if you see an error, let me know what I did wrong. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 14:58, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}}. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 15:11, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: (Heads up - the bot runs weekly, on saturday evenings UTC. So for this page, which was linked yesterday on the 9th, it would have done it next sat (the 14th).) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== How to improve this table ==

Hi, I made a table at [[Page:A History Of Mathematical Notations Vol I (1928).djvu/35]]. Whilst it works, it probably is quite a bodge solution and probably isn't compatible with mobile. Could anyone give some ideas as to how to improve it? —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 17:48, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Matrix|Matrix]] I am not sure if all tables can be made safe for mobile, so I am not sure exactly what to recommend. If you concern is having a table altogether, you could try individual lines of text, with [[:Template:Phantom]] to align the individual terms (alignment would not be preserved on all screens, but it would stop the font size shrinking when viewed in small windows, as presently). Also, very minor, but why call &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Right|}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; on cell contents, when you can apply &lt;nowiki&gt;{{ts|ar}}|&lt;/nowiki&gt;? Maybe it is identical, but it just seemed a little odd. P.S. There is also a quotation mark missing on the last 8 on the page, but I am not sure what the 8 is/isn't supposed to be aligned with (the 1/7th, and the 5,2,1 look like they are in slightly different columns). Up to you where you place it. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Template:Id ==

I have no idea why this template is the ''number one'' spot on [[Special:WantedTemplates]] (all such links are in the Page namespace). My guess is that it is somehow being transcluded by means of a different, broken template. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 19:12, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:It appears to be something to do with {{tl|float left}} after ShakespeareFan00's last fiddle. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: Due to a typo in [[Special:PermaLink/15019930]], {{tl|float left}} briefly called {{tl|id}} instead of using {{code|{{{id}}}}}. By the time it was corrected, it got the time to spread out it these 3k-ish pages. Discussed this with them back in April; we were hoping that MW would realise and purge pagelinks. Manifestly not. I'd say ignore it? Except if someone fells like going on a null-editing spree again. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:54, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Update: either it was the waiting, or the purging the template, or someone purging all the pages *shrug*, but now the links to {{tl|id}} have disappeared from whatlinkshere. I think [[Special:Wantedtemplates]] will reflect that in a few days' time. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Jersey Journal disconnected from Wikidata ==

You can just restore the deletion at Q7743126. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 20:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{done}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 13:28, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== The Cabin at the Trail's End ==

There are two indexes [[Index:Cabin at the Trail's End (IA cabinattrailsend0000sheb).pdf]] where some pages have been created and [[Index:The Cabin at the Trail's End.djvu]] where, apparantly, the OCR is a page off. Which to keep ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
: Given that a) OCR off by a page is a fixable problem; b) pdfs have more bugs; c) the djvu's OCR is slightly better than the pdf's; my 2¢ are take the djvu.
: I have taken the liberty of realigning the OCR of the djvu. (One of the good sides of djvus is that the hidden text can be easily extracted, tweaked and readded.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Vote now in the 2025 U4C Election ==

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Eligible voters are asked to participate in the 2025 [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Coordinating_Committee|Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee]] election. More information–including an eligibility check, voting process information, candidate information, and a link to the vote–are available on Meta at the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Coordinating_Committee/Election/2025|2025 Election information page]]. The vote closes on 17 June 2025 at [https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1750161600 12:00 UTC].

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      <text bytes="186934" sha1="06dvwj1izpchcyzdpga9zb5trqxbmf1" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==

The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==

Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==

===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
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      <text bytes="187265" sha1="7xvbjpjnlxhqclwwac2pl8cthz5nggt" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
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 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==

The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==

===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
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      <text bytes="187614" sha1="9devd1r8qz7d5xrfsysi0s7uwlg9db8" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
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 | title    = Proposed deletions
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 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==

===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
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      <text bytes="187981" sha1="tfrw8jnl26o83mbq76fon0gsaeh0pi4" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
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 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==

===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
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      <text bytes="188315" sha1="3rfcqp56vzymzvedo6m4kk1mj4xiihc" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
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 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
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      <text bytes="188324" sha1="1h9opzffzam6py438psztwb2dytcbg2" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
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      <text bytes="189333" sha1="6p3n9o8c2azsdh99mvg5o82099tzbsr" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
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      <text bytes="189703" sha1="ostfnwv54bpmbyny69jty088k3pwued" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

{{engine|archives}}
[[Category:Deletion requests| ]]
[[Category:Wikisource maintenance|Deletions]]
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__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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        <id>24345</id>
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      <comment>/* Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot; */ Reply</comment>
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      <text bytes="190232" sha1="gy6mssfamddcj83dad7l9zxlpu5i055" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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[[Category:Deletion requests| ]]
[[Category:Wikisource maintenance|Deletions]]
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__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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        <id>3086116</id>
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      <comment>/* Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot; */ reply.</comment>
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      <text bytes="190698" sha1="433e60wibk8m7nds3wkgbfugf7ansp3" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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[[Category:Wikisource maintenance|Deletions]]
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__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>433e60wibk8m7nds3wkgbfugf7ansp3</sha1>
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        <username>SnowyCinema</username>
        <id>2484340</id>
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      <comment>/* Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot; */ re</comment>
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      <text bytes="192445" sha1="8a8sapinhrc6ra6wjf12nhgggbvcf1l" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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[[Category:Deletion requests| ]]
[[Category:Wikisource maintenance|Deletions]]
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__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8a8sapinhrc6ra6wjf12nhgggbvcf1l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131798</id>
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        <username>RaboKarbakian</username>
        <id>2427564</id>
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      <text bytes="192686" sha1="e4aqmn11tw6tc2372bi3wxv6drrz2w4" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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[[Category:Deletion requests| ]]
[[Category:Wikisource maintenance|Deletions]]
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__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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      <text bytes="192939" sha1="of4p53li5xjsccxh74lfekn0mk6o87v" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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      <text bytes="193296" sha1="9bgyrayrwy0gbgxqeey53cmjhievlmr" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
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 | title    = Proposed deletions
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 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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      <text bytes="193615" sha1="2f0vm87oawtsx5lxe5vf4sv7a90twsa" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; means PRP; not just image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2f0vm87oawtsx5lxe5vf4sv7a90twsa</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132193</id>
      <parentid>15132174</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:45:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>RaboKarbakian</username>
        <id>2427564</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot; */</comment>
      <origin>15132193</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="193849" sha1="5dfxnnzyldiiqur87hba73wi75bb5g7" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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[[Category:Deletion requests| ]]
[[Category:Wikisource maintenance|Deletions]]
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__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Beardo]] for your precision, &quot;scan-backed&quot; means with Main space publications with page numbers linked to the scan page.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; means PRP; not just image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5dfxnnzyldiiqur87hba73wi75bb5g7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132195</id>
      <parentid>15132193</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:46:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot; */</comment>
      <origin>15132195</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="193881" sha1="38mlvajf4ebskyl4095dsj219hs9h1m" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

{{engine|archives}}
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[[Category:Wikisource maintenance|Deletions]]
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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Beardo]] for your precision, &quot;scan-backed&quot; means with Main space publications with page numbers linked to the scan page.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; more often than not is used to mean PRP; as opposed image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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      <text bytes="193876" sha1="6918p7lqr29wgll3te91r69hknrmfv2" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
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 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Beardo]] for your precision, &quot;scan-backed&quot; means Main space publications with page numbers linked to the scan page.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; more often than not is used to mean PRP; as opposed image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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      <text bytes="194055" sha1="3q47gd3zbgn8b6bjv1mimxub4g9q5zj" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Beardo]] for your precision, &quot;scan-backed&quot; means Main space publications with page numbers linked to the scan page.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; more often than not is used to mean PRP; as opposed image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

This index is now redundant to [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu]] which has single page scans. --</text>
      <sha1>3q47gd3zbgn8b6bjv1mimxub4g9q5zj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132649</id>
      <parentid>15132322</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:56:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf */</comment>
      <origin>15132649</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="194132" sha1="cboxamxmbgn066aecfsdp5bnm0nm712" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

{{engine|archives}}
[[Category:Deletion requests| ]]
[[Category:Wikisource maintenance|Deletions]]
{{autoarchive resolved section
 | age            = 7
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 | overview       = [[/Archives]]
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__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Beardo]] for your precision, &quot;scan-backed&quot; means Main space publications with page numbers linked to the scan page.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; more often than not is used to mean PRP; as opposed image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

This index is now redundant to [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu]] which has single page scans. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:56, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cboxamxmbgn066aecfsdp5bnm0nm712</sha1>
    </revision>
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      <id>15133059</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:53:02Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars */ Reply</comment>
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      <text bytes="194448" sha1="p6wbdhl042jpmduxsp3vpms7306sd8v" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::The first has now been replaced by a scan-backed copy - though a scan of just that piece. 
::As I understand that ther first and third were separate works originally, isn't it acceptable to treat the transalations as separate works ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:53, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Beardo]] for your precision, &quot;scan-backed&quot; means Main space publications with page numbers linked to the scan page.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; more often than not is used to mean PRP; as opposed image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==

Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

This index is now redundant to [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu]] which has single page scans. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:56, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>p6wbdhl042jpmduxsp3vpms7306sd8v</sha1>
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      <text bytes="194790" sha1="gmkmtbokypk9vede378vx4uy2037z8z" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::The first has now been replaced by a scan-backed copy - though a scan of just that piece. 
::As I understand that ther first and third were separate works originally, isn't it acceptable to treat the transalations as separate works ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:53, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Beardo]] for your precision, &quot;scan-backed&quot; means Main space publications with page numbers linked to the scan page.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; more often than not is used to mean PRP; as opposed image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted and recreated as dab; unsourced}}
Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:12, 14 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

This index is now redundant to [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu]] which has single page scans. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:56, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gmkmtbokypk9vede378vx4uy2037z8z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133489</id>
      <parentid>15133485</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T06:15:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits */ reply.</comment>
      <origin>15133489</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="195164" sha1="ctxjs4azh2ic7wwt2g8jk8e8nfpl42z" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

{{engine|archives}}
[[Category:Deletion requests| ]]
[[Category:Wikisource maintenance|Deletions]]
{{autoarchive resolved section
 | age            = 7
 | archive        = ((FULLPAGENAME))/Archives/((year))
 | overview       = [[/Archives]]
}}
}}

__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Eievie|Eievie]]: It looks like you have copied those pages, and so we can delete the index. Is that correct? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:15, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::The first has now been replaced by a scan-backed copy - though a scan of just that piece. 
::As I understand that ther first and third were separate works originally, isn't it acceptable to treat the transalations as separate works ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:53, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Beardo]] for your precision, &quot;scan-backed&quot; means Main space publications with page numbers linked to the scan page.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; more often than not is used to mean PRP; as opposed image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted and recreated as dab; unsourced}}
Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:12, 14 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

This index is now redundant to [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu]] which has single page scans. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:56, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ctxjs4azh2ic7wwt2g8jk8e8nfpl42z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133491</id>
      <parentid>15133489</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T06:17:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits */ Reply</comment>
      <origin>15133491</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="195284" sha1="o399n81chuumt3yaep1ssesh45fz2or" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

{{engine|archives}}
[[Category:Deletion requests| ]]
[[Category:Wikisource maintenance|Deletions]]
{{autoarchive resolved section
 | age            = 7
 | archive        = ((FULLPAGENAME))/Archives/((year))
 | overview       = [[/Archives]]
}}
}}

__FORCETOC__

== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==

[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Eievie|Eievie]]: It looks like you have copied those pages, and so we can delete the index. Is that correct? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:15, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, it's ready for deletion. Go ahead. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 06:17, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::The first has now been replaced by a scan-backed copy - though a scan of just that piece. 
::As I understand that ther first and third were separate works originally, isn't it acceptable to treat the transalations as separate works ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:53, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Beardo]] for your precision, &quot;scan-backed&quot; means Main space publications with page numbers linked to the scan page.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; more often than not is used to mean PRP; as opposed image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted and recreated as dab; unsourced}}
Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:12, 14 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

This index is now redundant to [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu]] which has single page scans. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:56, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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      <comment>/* A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits */ closed: [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] deleted as an inferior duplicate of [[Index:Deespirits.djvu]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="195759" sha1="bmk4xgqc2xfarewboydw3430u4ocj0l" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
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 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==
{{closed/s|1=[[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] deleted as an inferior duplicate of [[Index:Deespirits.djvu]]}}
[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Eievie|Eievie]]: It looks like you have copied those pages, and so we can delete the index. Is that correct? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:15, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, it's ready for deletion. Go ahead. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 06:17, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:20, 14 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::The first has now been replaced by a scan-backed copy - though a scan of just that piece. 
::As I understand that ther first and third were separate works originally, isn't it acceptable to treat the transalations as separate works ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:53, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Beardo]] for your precision, &quot;scan-backed&quot; means Main space publications with page numbers linked to the scan page.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; more often than not is used to mean PRP; as opposed image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted and recreated as dab; unsourced}}
Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:12, 14 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

This index is now redundant to [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu]] which has single page scans. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:56, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bmk4xgqc2xfarewboydw3430u4ocj0l</sha1>
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        <id>8435</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>Ignore this (I'm making a minor change to fix a lint)</comment>
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      <text bytes="195760" sha1="jfjku7tgwvcw3srlysr1jo7toh8viek" xml:space="preserve">:''[[WS:PD]] redirects here. For help with public domain materials, see [[Help:Public domain]].''
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
{{process header
 | title    = Proposed deletions
 | section  =
 | previous = [[WS:I/C|Community pages]]
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]] ([[/Archives/{{CURRENTYEAR}}|current]])
 | shortcut = [[WS:DEL]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:PD]]
 | notes    = This forum is for proposing deletion of specific works or pages on Wikisource in accordance with the [[WS:DP|deletion policy]], and appealing previously-deleted works. '''Please add {{[[Template:delete|delete]]}} to pages you have nominated for deletion.''' [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|What Wikisource includes]] is the policy used to determine whether or not particular works are acceptable on Wikisource. Pages remaining on this forum should be deleted if there is no significant opposition after at least a week. Works in another language than English can be imported to the relevant language Wikisource (or to [[Help:Multilingual Wikisource|multilingual Wikisource]] if no Wikisource exists for that language) prior to deletion.

Possible copyright violations should be listed at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions|Copyright discussions]]. Pages matching a [[WS:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]] should be tagged with {{[[Template:sdelete|sdelete]]}} and ''not'' reported here (see [[:Category:Speedy deletion requests|category]]). 

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== [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 042I, 23 February 2022]] ==

Excerpt of just parts of the title page (a pseudo-toc) of an issue of the journal of record for the EU. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 078, 17 March 2014]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 087I, 15 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 110, 8 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 153, 3 June 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 066, 2 March 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Also [[Official Journal of the European Union, L 116, 13 April 2022]] [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::Note: I have changed these pages' formatting to conform to that of the source. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{vk}} This isn't an excerpt; it matches the Contents page of the on-line journal and links to the same items, which have also been transcribed.  The format does not match as closely as it might, but it's not an excerpt. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
*:That's not the contents page of the online journal, it's the download page for the journal that happens to display the first page of the PDF (which is the title page, that also happens to list the contents). See [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:042I:FULL here] for the published form of this work. What we're hosting is a poorly-formatted de-coupled excerpt of the title page. It's also—regardless of sourcing—just a loose table of contents. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:: I don't understand.  You're saying that it matches the contents of the journal, yet somehow it also doesn't?  Yet, if I click on the individual items in the contents, I get the named items on a subpage.  How is this different from what we do everywhere else on Wikisource? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::They are loose tables of contents extracted from the title pages of issues of a journal. They link horizontally (not to subpages) to extracted texts and function like navboxes, not tables of contents on the top level page of a work. That their formatting is arbitrary wikipedia-like just reinforces this.{{pbr}}The linked texts should strictly speaking also be migrated to a scan of the actual journal, but since those are actual texts (and not a loose navigation aid) I'm more inclined to let them sit there until someone does the work to move them within the containing work and scan-backing them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
*:::: So, do I understand then that the articles should be consolidated as subpages, like a journal?  In which case, these pages are necessary to have as the base page.  Deleting them would disconnect all the component articles.  It sounds more as though you're unhappy with the page formatting, rather than anything else.  They are certainly not &quot;excerpts&quot;, which was the basis for nominating them for deletion, and with that argument removed, there is no remaining basis for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== [[Contracts Awarded by the CPA]] ==

Out of scope per [[WS:WWI]] as it's a mere listing of data devoid of any published context. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{vk}} if scan-backed to [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/Awarded_Contracts.pdf this PDF document]. Since the PDF document is from 2004, a time when the WWW existed but wasn't nearly as universal to society as today, I find the thought that this wasn't printed and distributed absurdly unlikely. And the copyright license would be PD-text, since none of the text is complex enough for copyright, being a list of general facts. Also, this document is {{w|Coalition Provisional Authority|historically significant}}, since it involves the relationships between two federal governments during a quite turbulent war in that region. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: (And it should be renamed to &quot;CPA-CA Register of Awards&quot; to accurately reflect the document.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's still just a list of data devoid of any context that might justify its inclusion (like if it were, e.g., the appendix to a report on something or other). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe I should write a user essay on this, since this is something I've had to justify in other discussions, so I can just link to that in the future.
::: I don't take the policy to mean we don't want compilations of data ''on principle'', or else we'd be deleting works like the US copyright catalogs (which despite containing introductions, etc., the ''body'' is fundamentally just a list of data). The policy says the justification on the very page. What we're trying to avoid is, rather, &quot;user-compiled and unverified&quot; data, like ''Wikisource editors'' (not external publications) listing resources for a certain project. And if you personally disagree, that's fine, but that's how I read the sentiment of the policy. I think that whether something was published, or at least printed or collected by a reputable-enough source, should be considered fair game. I'm more interested in weeding out research that was compiled on the fly by individual newbie editors, than ''federal government official compilations''.
::: But to be fair, even in my line of logic, this is sort of an iffy case, since the version of the document I gave gives absolutely no context besides &quot;CPA-CA REGISTER OF AWARDS (1 JAN 04- 10 APRIL 04)&quot; so it is difficult to verify the actual validity of the document's publication in 2004, but I would lean to keep this just because I think the likelihood is in the favor of the document being valid, and the data is on a notable subject. And if evidence comes to light that proves its validity beyond a shadow of a doubt, then certainly. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
::: Evidence of validity: The search metadata gives a date of April 11, 2004, and [https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/business/ the parent URL] is clearly an early 2000s web page just by the looks of it. My keep vote is sustained. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Kamoliddin Tohirjonovich Kacimbekov's statement]] ==

No source, no license, no indication of being in the public domain —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Found the source: [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf] — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 19:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::The text of the source does not match what we have.  I am having trouble finding our opening passages in the link you posted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
:::&lt;del&gt;(At least, a sentence matched).&lt;/del&gt; {{ping|EncycloPetey}} Found it, the content that corresponds to our page starts in the middle in the page 44 of that pdf, though the delimiting of paragraphs seems to be made up. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 20:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That means we have an extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*No, it appears that the PDF is a compilation of several different, thematically related documents. His statement (English’d) is one such separate document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:In which case we do not yet have a source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*No, that is the source; it’s just that the PDF contains multiple separate documents, like I said. It’s like the “Family Jewel” papers or the “Den of Espionage” documents. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*:Sorry, I meant to say that we do not have a source for it as an independently hosted work. To use the provided source, it would need to be moved into the containing work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::Well these document collections are bit messy, they were originally independent documents / works but they are collected together for release, e.g. because someone filed a FOIA request for all documents related to person X. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone were to extract out the document. I wouldn't object if someone was like I went to an archive and grabbed document X out of Folder Y in Box Z but if someone requested a digital version of the file from the same archive they might just get the whole box from the archive scanned as a single file. Something like the &quot;Family Jewels&quot; is at least editorial collected, has a cover letter, etc., this is more like years 1870-1885 of this magazine are on microfiche roll XXV, we need to organize by microfiche roll. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
::::*:*::: @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] since this PDF is published on the DOD/WHS website, doesn't that make this particular collection of documents a publication of DOD/WHS? (Genuine question, I can imagine there are cases -- and maybe this is one -- where it's not useful to be so literal about what constitutes a publication or to go off a different definition. But I'm interested in your thinking.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::Why would a particular website warrant a different consideration in terms of what we consider a publication?  How and why do you think it should be treated differently?  According to what criteria and standards? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::Your reply seems to assume I have a strong opinion on this. I don't. My question is not for the purpose of advocating a position, but for the purpose of understanding ''your'' position. (As I said, it's a genuine question. Meaning, not a rhetorical or a didactic one.) If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative of course.
:::::*:*::::I'll note that [[Wikisource:Extracts#Project scope]] states, &quot;The creation of extracts and abridgements of original works involves an element of creativity '''on the part of the user''' and falls under the restriction on original writing.&quot; (Emphasis is mine.) This extract is clearly not the work of a Wikisource user, so the statement does not apply to it. It's an extract created by (or at least published) by the [[Portal:United States Department of Defense|United States Department of Defense]], an entity whose publishing has been used to justify the inclusion of numerous works on Wikisource. 
:::::*:*::::But, I have no strong opinion on this decision. I'm merely seeking to understand the firmly held opinions of experienced Wikisource users. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::You misunderstand.  The page we currently have on our site is, based on what we have so far, an extract from a longer document.  And that extract was made by a user on Wikisource.  There is no evidence that the page we currently have was never published independently, so the extract issue applies here.  We can host it as part of the larger work, however, just as we host poems and short stories published in a magazine.  We always want the work to be included in the context in which it was published. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::OK. I did understand that to be TEaeA,ea's position, but it appeared to me that you were disagreeing and I did not understand the reasons. Sounds like there's greater agreement than I was perceiving though. [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::I am unclear what you are referring to as a &quot;longer document.&quot; Are you referring to the need to transcribe the Russian portion? That there are unreleased pages beyond the piece we have here?. Or are you saying the &quot;longer document&quot; is all 53 sets of releases almost 4000 pages listed here (https://www.esd.whs.mil/FOIA/Reading-Room/Reading-Room-List_2/Detainee_Related/)? I hope you are not advocating for merging all ~4000 pages into a single continuous page here, some some subdivision I assume is envisioned. 
:::::*:*:::::::Re the policy statement: I am not sure that is definitive: if someone writes me a letter or a poem and I paste that into a scrapbook, is the &quot;work&quot;  the letter, the scrapbook or both? Does it matter if it is a binder or a folder instead of a scrapbook? If a reporter copies down a speech in a notebook, is the work the speech or the whole notebook. etc. I am pretty sure we haven't defined with enough precision to point to policy to say one interpretation of &quot;work&quot; is clearly wrong, which is why we have the discussion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::The basic unit in [[WS:WWI]] is the published unit; we deal in works that have been published.  We would not host a poem you wrote and pasted into a scrapbook, because it has not been published.  For us to consider hosting something that has not been published usually requires some sort of extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::From WWSI: &quot;Most written work ... created but never published prior to 1929 may be included&quot;, Documentary sources include; &quot;personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; The point isn't the published works, that is clear. If someone takes the poem edits it and publishes in a collection its clear. It's the unpublished works sitting in archives, documentary sources, etc. Is the work the unpublished form it went into the archive (e.g separate letters) or the unpublished form currently in the archives (e.g. bound together) or is it if I request pages 73-78 from the archives those 5 pages in the scan are the work and if you request pages 67-75 those are a separate work? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::I will just add that in every other context we refer to a work as the physical thing and not a mere scanned facsimile. We don't consider Eighteenth Century Collections Online scanning a particular printed editions and putting up a scan as the &quot;published unit&quot; as distinct from the British Library putting up their scan as opposed to the LOC putting up their scan or finding a version on microfilm. Of course, someone taking documents and doing things (like the Pentagon Papers, or the Family Jewels) might create a new work, but AFAICT in this context it is just mere reproduction. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::In the issue at hand, I am unaware of any second or third releases / publications.  As far as I know, there is only the one release / publication.  When a collection or selection is released / published from an archive collection, that release is a publication.  And we do not have access to the archive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::We have access, via filing a FOIA request. That is literally how those documents appeared there, they are hosted under: &quot;5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(2)(D) Records - Records released to the public, under the FOIA,&quot; which are by law where records are hosted that have been requested three times. And in general, every archive has policies around access. And I can't just walk into Harvard or Oxford libraries and handle their books either. 
:::::*:*::::::::::::My point isn't that can't be the interpretation we could adopt or have stricter policies around archival material. Just that I don't believe we can point to a statement saying &quot;work&quot; or &quot;published unit&quot; and having that &quot;obviously&quot; means that a request for pages 1-5 of a ten report is obviously hostable if someone requests just those five pages via FOIA as a &quot;complete work&quot; while someone cutting out just the whole report now needs to be deleted because that was released as part of a 1000 page large document release and hence is now an &quot;extract&quot; of that 1000 page release.  That requires discussion, consensus, point to precedent etc. And if people here agree with that interpretation go ahead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::For example, I extracted [[Index:Alexandra Kollontai - The Workers Opposition in Russia (1921).djvu]] out of [https://archive.org/details/case_hd_8055_i4_r67_box_004]. My understanding of your position is that according to policy the &quot;work&quot; is actually all 5 scans from the Newberry Library archives joined together (or, maybe only if there are work that was previously unpublished?), and that therefore it is an &quot;extract&quot; in violation of policy. But if I uploaded this [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Workers_Opposition_in_Russia/] instead, that is okay? Or maybe it depends on the access policies of Newberry vs. the National Archives? Or it depends on publication status (so I can extract only published pamphlets from the scans but not something like a meeting minutes, so even though they might be in the same scan the &quot;work&quot; is different?)  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*::::::::::::::If the scan joined multiple '''published''' items, that were published separately, I would see no need to force them to be part of the same scan, provided the scan preserves the original publication ''in toto''.  I say that because there are Classical texts where all we have is the set of smushed together documents, and they are now considered a &quot;work&quot;.  This isn't a problem limited to modern scans, archives, and the like.  The problem is centuries old. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::*:*:::::::::::::::So if in those thousands of pages there is a meeting minute or letter between people (&quot;unpublished&quot;) then I can't? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

: This discussion has gone way beyond my ability to follow it. However, I do want to point out that we do have precedent for considering documents like those contained in  [https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Detainne_Related/Set_49_3298-3380_Revised-04-15-2021.pdf this file] adequate sources for inclusion in enWS. I mention this because if the above discussion established a change in precedent, there will be a large number of other works that can be deleted under similar argument (including ones which I have previously unsuccessfully proposed for deletion). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::for example, see the vast majority of works at [[Portal:Guantanamo]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::(@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]) So, to be clear, the idea would be to say that works which were published once and only once, and as part of a collection of works,&lt;ins&gt; but that were created on Wikisource on their own,&lt;/ins&gt; to be treated of extracts and deleted per [[WS:WWI#Extracts]]?
::If this is the case, it ought to be discussed at [[WS:S]] because as BT said a ''lot'' of other works would qualify for this that are currently kept because of that precedent, including most of our non-scan-backed poetry and most works that appeared in periodicals. This is a very significant chunk of our content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 09:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, that would classify encyclopedia articles as extracts, which would finally decide the question of whether it is appropriate to list them on disambiguation pages (i.e., it would not be appropriate, because they are extracts) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Extracts are only good for deletion if created separately from the main work. As far as I understood this, if someone does for example a whole collection of documents, they did the whole work, so it's fine, it's only if it's created separately (like this is the case here) that they would be eligible for deletion. Editing comment accordingly. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp; [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::We would not host an article from an encyclopedia as a work in its own right; it would need to be part of its containing work, such as a subpage of the work, and not a stand-alone article.  I believe the same principle applies here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Much of our non-scan backed poetry looks like this [[A Picture Song]] which is already non-policy compliant (no source). For those listing a source such as an anthology, policy would generally indicate the should end up being listed as subworks of the anthology they were listed in. I don't think I have seen an example of a poetry anthology scan being split up into a hundred different separate poems transcribed as individual works rather than as a hundred subworks of the anthology work. 
:::Periodicals are their own mess, especially with works published serially. Whatever we say here also doesn't affect definitely answer the question of redirects, links, disambiguation as we already have policies and precedent allowing linking to sub-works (e.g. we allow linking to laws or treaties contained in statute books, collections, appendices, etc.). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
::::They are non-policy compliant, but this consensus appears to have been that though adding sourceless works is not allowed, we do not delete the old ones, which this, if done, would do. — [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ( &lt;span style=&quot;display:inline-table;line-height:79%;font-size:79%;top:-.5em;position:relative;font-variant:small-caps&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] &amp;amp;&lt;br/&gt;[[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]&lt;/span&gt; ) 07:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[La Comédie humaine]] ==

This is a list of links to various works by Balzac. I think this is supposed to be an anthology, but the links in it do not appear to be from an edition of the anthology, so this should be deleted. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Of course, if it's not an anthology, but rather a list of related works, it should be moved to Portal space instead. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::This is a Schrödinger's contents: All of the listed items ''were'' published together in a collection by this title, ''however'' the copies we have do not necessarily come from that collection, and meny of the items were published elsewhere first. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::''None'' of the copies we have come from that collection, which is why I nominated it for deletion. The closest is [[Author's Introduction to The Human Comedy]] which is from ''[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1968 The Human Comedy: Introductions and Appendix]''. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::There are also a ''LOT'' of links to this page, and there is [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], which is a reference work tied to the work by Balzac. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The vast majority of the incoming links are through section redirects, so we could just make a portal and change the redirect targets to lead to the portal sections.
:::As for [[Index:Repertory of the Comedie Humaine.djvu]], it goes with [[Repertory of the Comedie Humaine]], which is mentioned at [[La Comédie humaine]] as a more specific, detailed and distinct work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Yes, it is a distinct work, but it is a reference work ''about'' La Comédie humaine, containing links throughout to all the same works, because those works were published in La Comédie humaine, which is the subject of the reference book.  This means that it contains the same links to various works issue that the nominated work has. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::We could make the unusual step of creating a Translations page despite having no editions of this anthology. This would handle all the incoming links, and list various scanned editions that could be added in future. It's not unprecedented. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::These novel series are a bit over the place, things like ''[[The Forsyte Chronicles]]'' and ''[[Organon]]'' get entries, while typically ''The X Trilogy'' does not.  My sense it that current practice is to group them on Authors / Portals so that is my inclination for the series.  Separately, if someone does want to start proofreading one of the published sets under the name, e.g. the Wormeley edition in 30 (1896) or 40 (1906) volumes. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes there is no clear distinction between a &quot;series of works&quot; and a &quot;single multi-volume work&quot;, which leaves a grey area. However, when the distinction is clear, a &quot;series of works&quot; does not belong in mainspace. To your examples: [[The Forsyte Chronicles]] is clearly in the wrong namespace and needs to be moved; but [[Organon]] is a Translations page rather than a series, and [[Organon (Owen)]] is unambiguously a single two-volume work, so it is where it belongs (though the &quot;Taken Separately&quot; section needs to be split into separate Translations pages). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::I support changing the page into a translations page. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Which translations would be listed?  So far, I am aware of just one English translation we could host. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::The translation page can contain a section listing the translation(s) that we host or could host and a section listing those parts of the work which were translated individually. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::That does not answer my question.  I know what a translation page does.  But if there is only a single hostable translation, then we do not create a Translations page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::Although there might not be multiple hostable translations of the whole work, there are various hostable translations of some (or all?) individual parts of the work, which is imo enough to create a translation page for the work. Something like the above discussed [[Organon]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::''Organon'' is a collected work limited in scope to just six of Aristotle's works on a unifying theme.  ''La Comédie humaine'' is more akin to ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'', where we would not list all of his individual works, because that's what an Author page is for. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Well, this work also has some unifying theme (expressed in the title ''La Comédie humaine'') and so it is not just an exhausting collection of all the author's works. Unlike ''The Collected Works of H. G. Wells'' it follows some author's plan (see [[w:La Comédie humaine#Structure of La Comédie humaine]]). So I also perceive it as a consistent work and can imagine that it has its own translation page, despite the large number of its constituents. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::A theme hunted for can always be found.  By your reasoning, should we have a ''Yale Shakespeare'' page in the Mainspace that lists all volumes of the first edition '''and''' a linked list of all of Shakespeare's works contained in the set?  After all, the ''Yale Shakespeare'' is not an exhaustive collection.  I would say &quot;no&quot;, and say the same for ''La Comédie humaine''.  The fact that a collection is not exhaustive is a weak argument. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::You pick one little detail from my reasoning which you twist, this twisted argument you try to disprove and then consider all my reasoning disproved. However, I did not say that the reason is that it is not exhaustive. I said that it is not just an exhausting collection but that it is more than that, that it resembles more a consistent work with a unifying theme. The theme is not hunted, it was set by the author. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Then what is your reason for wanting to list all of the component works on a versions / translations page?  &quot;It has a theme&quot; is not a strong argument; nor is &quot;it was assembled by the author&quot;.  Please note that the assemblage, as noted by the Wikipedia article, was never completed, so there is ''no'' publication anywhere of the complete assemblage envisioned by the author.  This feels more like a shared universe, like the Cthulhu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe, than a published work.  I am trying to determine which part of your comments are the actual justification being used for listing all of the ''component'' works of a set or series on the Mainspace page, and so far I do not see such a justification.  But I do see many reasons ''not'' to do so. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have written my arguments and they are not weak as I see them. Having spent with this more time than I had intended and having said all I wanted, I cannot say more. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::There are multiple reasons why it is different from the Cthulu Mythos or Marvel Cinematic Universe. E.g.
::::::::::::1. It is a fixed set, both of those examples are open-ended, with new works being added. Even the authors are not defined.
::::::::::::2. It was defined and published as such by the original author. Those are creations of, often, multiple editors  meaning that the contents are not necessarily agreed upon.
::::::::::::3. It was envisioned as a concept from the original author, not a tying together of works later by others.
::::::::::::etc.
::::::::::::The argument, &quot;it wasn't completed&quot; is also not a particularly compelling one. Lots of works are unfinished, I have never heard the argument, we can't host play X  as &quot;Play X&quot; because only 4/5 acts were written before the playwright died, or we can't host an unfinished novel as X because it is unfinished. And I doubt that is really a key distinction in your mind anyways, I can't imagine given the comparisons you are making that you would be comfortable hosting it if Balzac lived to 71, completed the original planned 46 novels but not if he lived to 70 and completed 45.5 out of the 46. 
::::::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Re: &quot;It was defined and published as such by the original author&quot;.  Do you mean the ''list'' was published, or that the ''work'' was published?  What is the &quot;it&quot; here? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::&quot;It&quot; is the concept, so both. You could go into a book store in 1855 and buy books labeled La Comedie Humaine, Volume 1, just like you can buy books today labeled A Song of Ice and Fire, First Book. 
::::::::::::::But that is my general point, having a discussion grounded in the publication history of the concept can at least go somewhere. Dismissing out of hand, &quot;it was never finished&quot; gets debating points, not engagement. I may have had interest in researching the history over Balzac's life, but at this point that seems futile. 
::::::::::::::In general, to close out my thoughts, for the reasons I highlighted (fixed set, author intent, enough realization and publication as such, existence as a work on fr Wiki source / WP as a novel series) it seems enough to be beyond a mere list, and a translation page seems a reasonable solution here. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)]] ==

This work has no source text, and I suspect it is an inaccurate transcription of an old print edition, because it frequently substitutes &quot;z&quot; where &quot;ȝ&quot; exists in other source texts. It was added to the site, fully-formed, in 2007, by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.189.10|an IP editor]], so I don't think we'll be able to get much context for it. I think it should be blanked and replaced with a transcription project should the source be identified, and if not, deleted. See further details on identifying its source on [[Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Middle English)|the talk page]]. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 20:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

:The ultimate source is, by unavoidable implication, the [[:Wikipedia:Pearl Manuscript|British Library MS Cotton Nero A X/2]], digital copies of which exist (and may well have existed in 2007). It is possible that the manuscript may be the proximal source, too, though it may be Morris. The substitution of a standard character for an unusual one is common in amateur transcriptions but an old print edition would be unlikely to be that inconsistent. Could we upload a scan of the original source and verify the text we have matches (almost certainly better than an OCR would)? Then we can correct the characters and other errors. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 16:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:*[[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]]: Does [https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/CS.aspx?VP3=DamView&amp;VBID=2R3BXZ51R8SGK&amp;SMLS=1&amp;q=Gawain&amp;RW=1267&amp;RH=593 this] work? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:Looks good. Should we choose that, or Morris, as the &quot;source&quot;? I think the IP could be taken to have implied the MS, but if Morris is closer that would be fine too. I've now noticed that we do have another ME version, [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::Both Morris and Madden have annotations (footnotes, marginal notes) not shown here. So perhaps taking it as a transcription of the MS makes more sense. [[User:HLHJ|HLHJ]] ([[User talk:HLHJ|talk]]) 04:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::We ought to bear in mind that Sir Gawain is only a small part of the larger Pearl manuscript. Would that make using the MS directly an extract? [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Further points against using the MS: I'm not sure how many of Wikisource's users could transcribe it accurately given how heavily faded, archaic, and abbreviated it is. The lack of abbreviation in the Wikisource text is a point in favour of Morris, too: the IP knew how to expand the abbreviations, but kept confusing &quot;ȝ&quot; for &quot;z&quot;? That sounds implausible to me. [[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]] ([[User talk:EnronEvolved|talk]]) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
:*::*[[User:EnronEvolved|EnronEvolved]]: I think that there wouldn’t be an issue with uploading the entire ''Pearl'' manuscript just for this, as there would probably be interest in the remaining works at some point. It may simply be an inaccurate transcription of an old photofacsimile of the manuscript, although in any case the original would be of much value. As for users, that is certainly an issue; even my experience with a borderline Middle/Modern English text wouldn’t help me, as I would still need a lot of practice parsing the light hand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:*:::Re being an extract, there isn't a clear consensus one way or the other, as has come up in other contexts. For example, if it is published in 5 separate parts by the holding library (or even separate libraries), is putting them the five separate scans back together again a prohibited user created compilation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
*I would be interested in proofreading this text, mostly because I thought that &quot;The Green Knight&quot; was a great movie. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*:Note that the Versions page includes a link to our on-going transcription of the edition co-edited by Tolkien, which edition includes the Middle English, copious notes, and a vocabulary list. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] ==

Looks like transcription of some screenshots of web pages. Not in our scope per [[WS:WWI#Reference material]]: &quot;Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is published as part of a complete source text&quot; ... &quot;Some examples of these include... Tables of data or results&quot;.

Besides, the PDF file contains two pages with two tables from two separate database entries, so it is a user-created compilation, which is again not possible per [[WS:WWI]].

(Besides all this, I still believe that our task is not transcribing the whole web, as this creates unnecessary maintenance burden for our small community. But it is not the main reason, though it is important, the main ones are above.)

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:04, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; These reports are published specifically by the United States government at least 3 months after a natural disaster that serve as the finalized reports. There is [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp an entire page] specifically about these sources. The PDF is Wikipedian-made but the tables are not. The U.S. government divides every report by county and by month. The fire was in a single county, but occurred in April &amp; May 2024, therefore, NOAA published an April 2024 and a May 2024 report separately. The PDF was the combination of the two sources. To note, this '''is an official publication of the U.S. government''' as described in that page linked above: &quot;{{red|Storm Data is an official publication of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) which documents the occurrence of storms and other significant weather phenomena having sufficient intensity to cause loss of life, injuries, significant property damage, and/or disruption to commerce.}}&quot; Per [[WS:WWI]], this is a documentary source, which qualifies under Wikisource's scope per &quot;{{green|They are official documents of the body producing them}}&quot;. There is way in hell you can argue a collection of official U.S. government documents does not qualify for Wikisource. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::The definition of the documentary source in [[WS:WWI]] says that &quot;documents may range from constitutions and treaties to personal correspondence and diaries.&quot; Pure tables without any context are refused by the rule a bit below, see my quotation above. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is how the National Weather Service, a branch of the United States government publishes finalized results...Like '''every single fucking natural disaster in the United States''' is published in that format. [[:File:Storm Data Document for the 1970 Lubbock, Texas Tornado.jpg]] is a 1970 publication (pre-Internet) and this is a physical paper that was physcally scanned in. That to is in a chart and table. If charts and tables produced by the US government are not allowed, then y'all need to create something saying no U.S. government natural disaster report is allowed because '''tables is how the U.S. government fucking publishes the information'''. Yeah, good bye Wikisource. There is literally no use to be here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::That is absolutely OK that they publish tables, but our rule does not accept such screenshot-based material. Being rude or shouting with bold or red letters won't help. Although you have achieved that opposing arguments are less visible, it will not have any impact on the final result. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::If/when this is deleted, please make a note somewhere that ''{{w|Storm Data}}'' is not covered under Wikisource's scope, since both the 2024 wildfire and 1970 tornado document above are from Storm Data and they would not be under the scope. There needs to be some note about that somewhere that the U.S. document series ''Storm Data'' is not under Wikisource's scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 22:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Definitely not, it is not a matter of publisher. Besides, our rules are worded generally, we never make them publisher-specific. Speaking about Storm Data, they publish a monthly periodical, see [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/static/images/sdsample.pdf an example] which would definitely be in our scope. Unlike screenshots of their web. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So ''Storm Data'' is allowed, but screenshots of ''Storm Data'' is not allowed? Is that correct? [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:09, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: More or less. We don't accept extracts or user-created compilations, but if you have a government work as a whole, we'll generally take it. Screenshots of works aren't specifically in violation, but it's a horrible way to get a whole work. You can use podman on the HTML, or print it directly from your browser, and that will let the text be copyable.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I went ahead and requested author-requested speedy deletion on it. No use to try to argue or debate. I know you are an administrator who clearly knows it isn't in scope and needs to be deleted. I don't want to argue or debate it anymore and just want to be done with Wikisource transcribing. I do indeed lack the competence to know what is or is not allowed for Wikisource, despite being a veteran editor. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:In general, I would lean towards {{vk}} for reports by federal governments on official events. I know that we keep for example Civil Aeronautics Board / NTSB reports. Presumably, the NTSB dockets could also be added if so inclined. This seems to be the NOAA equivalent where the differences seem to be some level of &quot;lack of narrative / description&quot; and the proper formatting of the sourcing from the DB for structured data. I don't really think the first is particularly compelling to merit deletion, and the second is really about form not content. E.g. it might make sense to download the DB as a csv and then make each line a sub page to be more &quot;official&quot; but this seems fine to me (might make sense to upload the 1 line CSV anyways for posterity). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*On this topic, I want to throw [[2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] into the mix. This is a nearly identical format Wikisource collection ('''and Wikisource {{green|validated}} collection''') for the NOAA finalized report on the {{w|2024 Greenfield tornado}}. I am wanting to throw this into the mix for others to see a better-example of NOAA's finalized report. Also noting the Wikisource document is listed on the EN-Wikipedia article for the tornado (see the top of [[w:2024 Greenfield tornado#Tornado summary]]). [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the NOAA finalized report; it's a stitched together collection of NOAA reports. It's not entirely transparent which reports were stitched together. It's clearly not ''Storm Data''.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:35, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Prosfilaes}} Every URL is cited on the talk page. See [[Talk:2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report]] in the &quot;Information about this edition&quot;. To also note, the &quot;Notes&quot; section actually says, &quot;This tornado crossed through four counties, so the finalized report consists of four separate reports, which have been combined together.&quot; I do not know how that is not transparent enough to say which reports are in the collection. The reports &quot;Event Narrative&quot; also make it clear for the continuations: For example, one ends with &quot;The tornado exited the county into Adair County between Quince Avenue and Redwood Avenue.&quot; and the next starts with &quot;This large and violent tornado entered into south central Adair County from Adams County.&quot; NOAA is very transparent when it is a continuation like that. If you have any suggestions how to make it more transparent, I am all ears! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Also quick P.S., this is in fact Storm Data. You can read the [https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/faq.jsp Storm Data FAQ page]. Everything regarding what is an &quot;Episode&quot; vs &quot;Event&quot; (as seen in the charts aforementioned above) is entirely explained there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|WeatherWriter}} I missed those URLs because they're not listed on the PDF page. Someone should archive completely that Storm Data database, but that's not really Wikisource's job. We store publications, not user-created collections of material from a database. There is no &quot;2024 Greenfield Tornado Finalized Report&quot; from NOAA; there are four separate reports.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 04:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The nominator misreads the relevant policy. The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded; this is a good example of that fact. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:...and besides that it is a user created compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon my request, the two reports compiled in our pdf have been archived by archive.org, see [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114030655/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175617 here] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20250114161013/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=1175619 here]. Archive.org is the service which should be used for web archiving, not Wikisource, where the two screenshot-based tables are now redundant and without any added value. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:It might make sense to add these to field to wikidata for storm events, assuming the event itself is noticeable, given that it is built for handling structured data. But that is a question for the wikidata commmunity. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Imposing Maximum Pressure on the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Denying Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon, and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence]] ==

Unformatted copydump with no backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:KEEP, and add the scan when it becomes available.
:Highly notable, and well sourced here: National Security Presidential Memorandum/NSPM-2 [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ whitehouse.gov]
:It is legible, formatted well enough to read, by anyone interested in actually reading.
:Soon it will be published in the US [[Federal Register]], if it hasn't been already, and scans be available soon.  As such a recent document, you should at least give me and other contributors to [[WS:USEO]] project the time to complete the work, before nominating it for deletion.  Also, the page creator (myself) should have been notified on his user page, and I was not notified.  @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] has made a dozen comments on my user talk page, in the previous hour, after he proposed this deletion, so it seems that failure to notify was intentional.  Why do this behind my back?
:This just discourages people from contributing.  Is that what you want?
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 16:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wikisource has no notability requirement.  Please see the discussions above about adding texts here from the US Federal Register without a backing scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Failure to notify&quot; implies there is a requirement to notify.  There is no such requirement for deletion discussions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I was not aware that there was no requirement.  Perhaps there should be.  But since you were very active on my user talk page in the hour after you proposed this for deletion, 
:::* why did you neglect to mention it?  
:::* Were you hoping I wouldn't find out?  
:::* In general, why should we not have a full discussion with all relevant points of view presented?  
:::* Why not include the primary contributor in a discussion about whether or not to delete the work he has contributed?
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 21:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This ''is'' the full discussion. Right here.  you have participated in it. There is no requirement to notify anyone of a deletion nomination.  They are announced here, on this page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:27, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Of the dozens and dozens of &quot;briefings&quot; and &quot;statements and releases&quot; that I added to [[Author:Joe Biden]] and [[Author:Antony Blinken]] over the last two or three years, almost all of them met this same alleged criteria for deletion.  None of them were backed by scans;  all of them were &quot;copydumps&quot; that I cut and pasted from http://whitehouse.gov or state.gov or some other government website, which I cited in the &quot;notes&quot; field as the source.  With this NSPM from [[Author:Donald Trump]], I did the exact same thing I had been doing for over the previous years.
:Yet not one of them was proposed for deletion.  Why the sudden unequal enforcement?  And where is the policy that states that this is forbidden?
:I am committed to editing in a manner that is '''Non-Partisan''' and '''In the Public Interest'''.  It appears that other administrators here are not.
:[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I went back and looked at those, and no, they do not meet the criteria mentioned above.  Although I do notice that none of the source links are working any longer, since those pages were taken down by the new administration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I just added 10 interesting wikilinks to wikipedia articles that explain the context of this memorandum, starting with 
:::''Imposing [[w:Maximum pressure campaign|Maximum Pressure]] on the Government of the [[w:Islamic Republic of Iran|Islamic Republic of Iran]], Denying [[w:Nuclear program of Iran|Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon]], and Countering Iran’s Malign Influence.''
:::It's true that I'd done this - adding wikilinks - to most of the Biden era documents I published here.  Now that I've added wikilinks to the Trump era document, I expect you all to preserve it.  (A scan will probably become available from the federal register in a few days - if its not available already - and I'll have to do this all over again.)
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Scores of Biden era documents - maybe hundreds - were given pages here by wikisource editors, other than me, and have not been formatted:  they are unformatted copydumps.  Here is a small sample:
::::* [[Memorandum on Renewing the National Security Council System]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum on Advancing the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Persons Around the World]] (2021-02-04)
::::* [[Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021]] (2021-04-16)
::::Admins/editors have placed {{tl|no scan}} tags, but they refrained from placing {{tl|delete}}. And unlike those documents where the link to whitehouse.gov is broken due to presidential transition, the link I've given to document in question here actually works, See for yourself:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/
::::This is unequal enforcement that appears to motivated by political bias.  Like this document, Biden's shouldn't be deleted:  instead we should have a policy explicitly legitimizing this, and use the {{tl|no scan}} to warn readers to use there own judgement in determining whether the document is reliable or not. [[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:16, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The examples you pointed to have all been formatted.  The text being considered was nominated because it had ''not'' been formatted.  I see that some formatting has been added, but that the added formatting does not match the source.  There is still unformatted content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've just formatted it, by removing the indentations.   Is this now &quot;formatted&quot; in your opinion, or what else needs to be done?
::::::The text being considered here, the NSPM-2 is now formatted with ten wikilinks:  the other examples have none.
::::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, all of the source links to whitehouse.gov from presidential documents by [[Author:Joe Biden]], are now broken.  I've checked half a dozen from [[Author:Barack Obama]], and they are all broken too, no one bothered to fix these.  (None of them were backed by scans either, and yet haven't been proposed for deletion.)
:::Maybe we should redirect our efforts toward this pressing need:
:::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Fixing broken links to whitehouse.gov after Presidential Transitions]]
:::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 23:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::This is why we ask for added works to be backed by scans: internet links change and disappear.  Problems present in other works are not reasons to keep this one; they are reasons to consider deletion of additional problematic pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Although many internet links change and disappear, this and other presidential documents are in the U.S. National Archives.  Although they will move from whitehouse.gov to archives.gov, '''we can rely''' on their continued availability in the decades to come.
:::::[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|talk]]) 00:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: it looks to me like this page now conforms with the formatting of [https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/]. Would you agree with that? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, be the original has a nested outline structure, and no bulleted list.  But I would agree that the page is no longer ''un''formatted, as when it was nominated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:DOGE Termination of $8.189 Million USDA Contract for &quot;Environmental Compliance Services for the Implementation of Pilot Projects Developed Under the Partnership for Climate Smart Commodities&quot;.jpg]]==
There are quite a few like this, but I’ll use this one as an example. These are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. If you go to [https://doge.gov/savings this Web-site], and click on the “LINK” icon under “Contracts,” you will be able to find many instances. In addition, these are collections of data, arranged on a form. I believe that neither the form nor the data filled in as part of the form qualify under [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes#Reference_material|Wikisource:What Wikisource includes § Reference material]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' &amp;ndash; Several of these documents are linked at [[w:Department of Government Efficiency#Termination of federal contracts]]. Several sources do indeed indicated these ''are'' “federal contracts” ([[w:Contract|a type of documet]]): [https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-claims-55-billion-government-cuts-figure-hard/story?id=118966190 ABC News] — “{{color|green|DOGE this week posted on its website a list of more than 1,000 federal contracts}}” &amp; “The 1,127 contracts span 39 federal departments and agencies” / [https://apnews.com/article/doge-federal-contracts-canceled-musk-trump-cuts-a65976a725412934ad686389889db0df Associated Press] — “The Department of Government Efficiency, run by Trump adviser Elon Musk, {{color|green|published an updated list Monday of nearly 2,300 contracts}} that agencies terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.” / [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5162621-doge-wall-of-receipts-savings/ The Hill] — “The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has initiated the process to terminate roughly {{color|green|1,125 government contracts}}, however 37 percent of those cancellations aren’t expected to yield any savings. {{color|green|DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts” lists 417 contract annulments}}, many of which are for the embattled Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), on the homepage of their website with a dollar amount for total savings.” These are documents, as confirmed by numerous reliable sources. This is no different than the JFK Assassination documents, which are allowed on Wikisource. Also to note, [[WS:DOGE|WikiProject DOGE]] does exist as well. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
:*I presume “contracts” are documents, but these are not contracts at all: these are forms which indicate the details of contracts (and of their cancelations). DOGE has not “posted” any “contracts”; they have just identified certain contracts which have been canceled. Your sources mentions “lists,” which is what is on the Web-site proper; the “contracts” themselves are not. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[https://time.com/7261360/us-doge-musk-canceled-contracts-no-government-savings/ TIME Magazine] - &quot;{{color|green|The Department of Government Efficiency run by Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts that it terminated in recent weeks across the federal government.}}&quot; I.e. &quot;published....1,125 contracts&quot;. Do you have any proof to indicate these are not federal documents? Key word, &quot;documents&quot;? Every source indicates these are very clearly federal documents. Whether they are a table or not is actually ''not'' an issue on Wikisource. That has been established before. Tables are allowed ''as long as'' they are a document. Actually TE(æ)A,ea., [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Proposed_deletions&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14785456 you stated that] last month: &quot;{{color|red|The fact that a document is in tabular form does not mean that it needs must be excluded}}&quot;, when you stated the deletion nominator for [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]], was &quot;misreading&quot; the exact policy you are claiming here. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 00:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::**Those ellipses are doing a lot of work; the “list” is what has been “published,” not the “1,125 contracts.” I don’t need “proof” that these are not contracts: they are simply not contracts. Have you ever seen a contract? This is not what a contract looks like. Again, these are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages. The fact that they are tables is irrelevant; this belongs on Internet Archive, not here. Just because something is produced by the federal government (and thus in the public domain) does not mean that it belongs here; we do not maintain archives of official government Web-sites because that is duplicitous of other services, like Internet Archive, which do it better. These tables are not documents, but print-outs of Web pages, and as such are out of scope. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::***Well, your thought process of it entirely disagrees with the wording of RS, namely the TIME Magazine article listed, which directly stated they &quot;published&quot; &quot;contracts&quot;. It is in scope, same as the [[The Finalized Report on the 2024 Little Yamsay Fire]] is in scope. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 03:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::****We’re not Wikipedia; “reliable sources” are worthless. In any case, you misread the ''Time'' article: “Elon Musk last week published an initial list of 1,125 contracts.” Thus, a “list” was “published,” not the contracts. Neither ''Time'' nor the other sources you pulled says that “contracts” were “published.” This comports with reality: ''DOGE.gov'' has a list of hyper-links to contract information; this is a “list of … contracts” in that it identifies which contracts have been canceled, not that the tables are themselves the contracts. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::*****We shall wait for others to see. Clearly, we interpret the English language differently, because “a list of contracts” does not mean a “list” was published, but rather “contracts” was published and it is a list of those published contracts. For the record, deletion of this disrupts other Wikimedia Projects…so per [[WS:SCOPE]], “''Some works which may seem to fail the criteria outlined above may still be included if consensus is reached. This is especially true of works of high importance or historical value, and where the work is not far off from being hostable. Such consensus will be based on discussion at the Scriptorium and at Proposed deletions.''” Even if it is determined (somehow) that DOGE is not actually posting federal documents whatsoever, then it 100% qualifies for a discussion to see if these are high important or have high historical value. Noting that several RS are specifically regarding these documents (examples above…). To note, it was already discussion on English Wikipedia that these documents by DOGE are unarchivable to the WayBack Machine, which plays even a more important role for their value on here, given they actually are unarchivable, despite you saying it belongs there…it actually cannot be there. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 04:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unless further info suggesting otherwise comes to light. The present political reality in the USA is rapidly calling into the question what is &quot;official.&quot; I support taking a more liberal view of what is in scope when it comes to documents caught up in present U.S. federal government activity. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:40, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: On what subject would this “further info suggesting otherwise” be? I don’t deny that these are official, but that they are documents, as opposed to print-outs of Web pages (which I believe we traditionally exclude as out of scope). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
**:&quot;Official&quot; vs &quot;documents&quot; -- I see, that is a useful distinction. My best interpretation is that these are not the contracts themselves (which would have signatures); however, does a more formal/official record of the ''cancellation'' of the contract exist? I'm not sure. My position is that we should err on the side of caution in this instance. I hedge my !vote precisely because I don't have a great view of what's going on or how it's being recorded. If a better record of the contract and its cancellation becomes available, then I'd support deleting these. (I concede that this may be a break with tradition; however, many of the activities of the federal government right now break with tradition as well.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 04:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Cicaden]], [[Gespensterbuch]], [[Wunderbuch]] ==

These pages are neither translations nor versions pages, but are lists of things that were published in particular publications in German.  But none of the linked translations or versions pages have copies that are actually from either of these sources. = There is no scan-backed copy on de.WS, and no content here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:The same applies to [[Aus der Geisterwelt]], no ? According to [[w:Gespensterbuch]] only some of the stories have been translated. Could these go as sub-pages of the author pages ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Author pages are for listing works we have, or could have.  These are listings of German editions published in German language books. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I see. In that case, there is nothing that can be done. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] after the discussion below, was wondering if you'd be willing to suspend your vote until there's been a wider discussion on the best way to handle non-English anthologies that have had stories translated into English, as many anthologies link to individual stories, and there are currently no rules or guidelines which prevent this. Would be good to see what the overall community consensus is on this (i.e. whether to support the existing precedent of anthologies linking to individual stories, or to adopt a new hardline approach that prevents this) before deleting! Would appreciate your thoughts either way! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ping @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]. There wasn't a clear precedent when I created these, so I don't think they're covered (or prohibited as far as I know) by any existing policies, but please could we discuss this at the Scriptorium to decide a precedent one way or the other before deletion, as I think there's a strong case for having translations pages for anthologies from other languages (such as, for example [[Grimm's Household Tales]]), that show links to individual short stories that have been translated, ''especially'' in instances where there have been no complete translations of the entire anthology. Many of these anthologies are notable (such as [[Gespensterbuch]]), and having a single link from Wikipedia for readers to easily view all English translations of short stories from them would be very helpful (especially in cases such as [[Fantasmagoriana]], which has several authors and so no straightforward way to link to here without a separate page like this). If it's decided to put these purely in author pages, then it would be good to decide what is the best way to do this in practice (e.g. some authors have many short stories – so should these short stories be sorted alphabetically by title [if so, most widely used English translation, or original language? – either way would make it difficult for readers to find all stories in a given anthology at a glance], or by year of first publication? Should these short story bullet points list the anthology that it was first published in [in which case, some authors like [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E.T.A. Hoffmann]] tended to publish the stories individually in annuals first, and only later collect them in his best known anthology ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' – so it would be difficult for readers, as at present, to find all translations of the ''Serapionsbrüder'' translations from the author page], or all anthologies, or perhaps just notable ones [if so, how do you define this]?) I guess my point is that the situation is quite complex, and I think there's a strong benefit to readers in having these, and very little to lose by having them, as long as we define clearly situations where they are unnecessary (e.g. perhaps in cases where only one story has been translated into English). Sorry for the wall of text – this might not be a big deal to most editors, but to me it is! --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Except that these are ''not'' translations pages; they're lists of things published in a language other than English from a collection that also is not in English.  English Wikisource has never hosted pages for works that are not in English and which have not been translated.  The corresponding Author pages have also been made unnecessarily complex as well by listing each German publication for each story as to where it's been published, making it harder to see the story titles.  The removal of all the extraneous information would make it easier for people to see the story titles, instead of a wall of publication information that isn't relevant. --13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC) [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] if you click on any of the links on these pages, they will take you to the English translations of these stories. For [[Gespensterbuch]], about half of the stories have been translated, for [[Wunderbuch]], currently three stories ([[Cicaden]] does seem excessive to me, as it only has one translated story, so would not pass the condition I suggested above). Another example I gave, [[Grimm's Household Tales]], also has about half the stories with links – do you agree that there is still value in having this page as it is, or would you prefer to delete the Individual Tales section? As a result, I think they should be counted as translations pages, and that any non-English anthologies that have had more than one story translated into English should be given translations pages like this (I would prefer them to have complete lists of contents, rather than only including the tales that have been translated, as it helps readers to see which stories have been translated, and which ones haven't, but again I'm aware that there has been no discussion on this yet and opinions may differ). You could argue that these should be portals, but I think there are several reasons translations pages would be best – either way I think would be good to get a broader community consensus on this. I'm not sure how much transcribing of short story translations into English you've done, but this has been the main area I've been working on – so have thought about the pros/cons of different approaches to this stuff quite a bit – but again, it would be good to have wider community feedback and reach a consensus on best practices for non-English anthologies that have had several stories translated into English. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But they are not translations from those publications.  The translations are published elsewhere.  A portal combining these items might be possible, but again, there is a lot of listed information about a German-language publication, for which we have no content, and which we will not have because (as you note) the books have not been translated. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::If you think more people might participate, you can point people to here from the Scriptorium, but feletion discussions happen on this page, not in the Scriptorium. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Can I ask what you mean by {{tqi|they are not translations from those publications}} and {{tqi|The translations are published elsewhere}}? As I see it, each translations pages is ''entirely'' about a non-English work, and links to ''all'' English translations of that work (including parts of that work), regardless of where it was published. I think you're saying that as you see it, translations pages should only contain links to complete translations of the entire work? In which case, all of the entries on [[Grimm's Household Tales]] should be deleted as none of them are complete, as well as the list of individual stories, which are also not publications. There are very likely to be many, many other examples like this. Excluding translations that are published as part of larger works would also exclude a huge number of novels (for example, many of the transcriptions of Goethe's novels are published in larger collected works). Again, having worked on transcribing translations over the past few years, I think this is a much more complex area than you might be assuming, and I think this type of translations page for anthologies has real value to readers – with no downsides.{{pbr}}
:::::In terms of this deletion discussion – I might be mistaken (please correct me if I am!) but I think the question of how to handle translations pages for anthologies, and whether they are allowed to link to the individual stories is not a settled issue? There's certainly precedent for individual story translations pages being linked to on anthology translations pages, as I've illustrated above, and there do not seem to have been any discussions on how to handle these cases, nor are they in breach of any rules, policies, or guidelines as far as I can tell? I'd argue that as they're not in contravention of any rules, and there's a precedent for doing this, they should not be deleted until there's been a wider discussion to settle this point first, or a very clear consensus that they should go. If the latter, I would ask that we settle the scope of what can and cannot be included on the translations pages of anthologies, as this will affect many other pages, and it seems extremely unfair to delete without setting up clear guidelines – otherwise how am I, or other editors, to know whether my (or their) past, current, or future work will be deleted later down the line? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:04, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You are confusing Translations pages with Versions pages that use a translation header template.  Our Translations pages are user-created translations from a scan that has been transcribed at the original language Wikisource.  Our versions pages list editions that we host or can host.  The pages under discussion are neither English translations, nor are they versions pages listing English translations.  They are lists of German language items in a German language publication.  Such things belong at the German Wikisource, not here on the English one.  They violate our most basic principle of [[WS:WWI]] in that they are not English publications or English translations.  Your comparison with ''[[Grimm's Household Tales]]'' misses the fact that the page lists five published translations of the tales, then the versions pages for the individual tales from those five published translations.  The pages being considered currently are not versions pages for any published translations of those books; they are list articles.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:48, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::By translations page, I was using the term as defined at [[Wikisource:Style guide#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]]: {{tqi|A translations page is a special case of a versions page, listing English language translations of a foreign work.}}, which use the template {{tl|translations}}. To be clear, when I used the term &quot;translations page&quot; above, I wasn't claiming that the pages that we were discussing were complete user-translated texts. [[Wikisource:Versions]] does not set out what is to be included on a translations page, neither does it prohibit linking of the individual stories within an anthology – nor does anywhere else in the guidelines – and as I've pointed out above, there is a clear precedent for many years of this happening – you have not said whether you would delete all of these without any community wide discussion first? To delete these pages many years later, when there is clear precedent for individual stories being linked to on translations pages, and there being no clear rules or guidelines that even suggest this is not allowed seems extraordinary. The fact that [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] does not specifically permit this also seems misleading, as it does not permit versions pages (including translations pages) at all – would you suggest we delete them all? The translations pages I've created all exist to provide links to translations of stories that are permitted by [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]] – as I've mentioned above, being able to have one translations page for an anthology is extremely helpful for readers who are interested in the anthology as a whole. Is the main issue for you that they contain the entire contents of the anthology, including stories that we do not know have any translations yet (I've given the reasons I think that's more helpful above, but again am very much open to discussing this and reaching a consensus on best practice)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And on the point about Grimm – please reread what I wrote :) {{tqi|all of the entries on Grimm's Household Tales should be deleted as none of them are complete, '''as well as''' the list of individual stories, which are also not publications}} (emphasis added) – none of the five translations linked to are complete, and most of them have many fewer than half the tales – the individual stories list also contains many stories that do not have links – precisely like the pages you've nominated for deletion – and the stories they link to are not just taken from the five translations – they also include many stories that were translated in periodicals, other anthologies and the like – which adds to their value. Again, not to press the point too much, but you seem to have reached a strong conclusion despite this seeming like an area you don't edit in a lot? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 23:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Your statement about the Grimm listings is incorrect. [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)]] is complete, scan-backed, and validated.  The copy proofread from [[Index:Grimm-Rackham.djvu]] is also complete.  So the premise for your argument is not true.  These are all English editions of the Grimm collection.  Correct, many of them omit stories found in the original, but that is true of ''many'' English translations.  It is even true of English language editions of English language publications.  The US edition of ''A Clockwork Orange'' was published without the final chapter from the original UK edition.  Incompleteness of an edition or translation does not make it any less an edition.  But all that is tangential to the discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::By &quot;complete&quot; I meant &quot;contains all the stories in the anthology&quot;. Edwardes is the only one that is close to this, but still misses several stories (see [[:de:Kinder- und Hausmärchen|de-ws]] for a complete list), and also adds in stories by [[Author:Johann Gustav Gottlieb Büsching|Büsching]], [[Author:Otmar|Otmar]], and [[Author:Johann Ludwig Tieck|Tieck]] – the other four contain many fewer of the Grimm stories, and so none of these are full translations of the original work, which is what you seemed to be arguing for. The fact that that's true for many English translations is exactly my point – this area is much more complex than you seem to be suggesting. If you consider these partial translations, which contain stories by other authors not found in the original text, to be &quot;versions&quot; of Grimm, where do you draw the line? And why is this line you're drawing not documented in any rules or guidelines? If you consider Taylor and Jardine's [[German Popular Stories]] to be an edition of Grimm, then why not consider [[Tales of the Dead]] to be an edition of [[Gespensterbuch]] (half of the stories are Gespensterbuch stories)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:In general, this is again the same thing we have hit again and again with partial translations, &quot;compound works,&quot; and our &quot;no excerpt policy.&quot; I really don't see the harm of a. listing non complete editions of ''[[One Thousand and One Nights]]'' here and being dogmatic that only complete translations of the whole work are allowed to be listed  and b. listing things like individual Fables here [[Fables (Aesop)]], individual sonnets by Shakespeare here [[Shakespeare's Sonnets]], individual books of the [[Bible]], etc. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::I really would find it annoying if we have to start keeping parallel lists of translations. Oh this translation of the Acts was published in ''The New Testament'' so look there, this other translation is published in ''The Bible'' look there and this other translation was published in individual volumes so look under the individual book.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::What does [[Cicaden]] have that isn't better presented at [[Author:Johann August Apel]]? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Gespensterbuch]] seems perfectly reasonable as it is split across multiple authors and multiple translations, exactly why it makes sense to have a listing. Why would I expect to find a listing of works by Laun on Apel's page or Apel on Laun's page? What is the problem about wikilinking to Gepensterbuch from another work talking about it? Presumably you don't want a cross-namespace redirect Gespesnterbuch --&gt; Author:Apel? What's wrong about having WP link to this page? I am confused about what exact problem we are solving besides separating out complete from partial translations... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::And I am confused about what is the point of scan-backing this at DE WS. How does that help in any way? This isn't claiming to be a WS user-provided translation. Where is there anything about to host any published translation that you need to have a scan-backed version first? That to host [[The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898]] I first need to transcribe the original documents in Latin and Spanish? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:13, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::It is claiming to be an English language translation of ''Cicaden'', but it is not.  It is a bibliographic article written and constructed by a User.  It is original content provided by the user, and not published content.  We do not put user-generated content in the Mainspace. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So the problem is exactly my point about partial translations. Having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Torah misrepresents because it is a partial and not a complete translation, having [[Bible]] link to a translation of only the Gospels misrepresents because it isn't a complete translation, having ''[[The Tale of Genji]]'' link to ''[[The Sacred Tree]]'' is a misrepresentation, etc. I frankly don't see the problem that ''The Tale of Genji'' list 6 sub-books on the translations page, Of course a translations page is bibliographic created by the user, just like every author page listing works is bibliographic. We can discuss the correct '''presentation''' to list the individual poems, stories, plays, volumes etc. in a published collection to make clearer the separation (e.g. whether we should have &quot;Individual stories&quot; section) and provide guidance around that. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The problem with [[Bible]] is different: it's blending a Versions page and a Disambiguation page.  That's not happening with our current discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:16, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Or AEsop's ''Fables,'' ''One Thousand and One Nights'', any of the large collections of poetry, etc. I haven't seen a convincing argument why listing the poems in a poetry collection is bad, listing the stories in a short story collection is bad, etc. My vote is cast. {{vk}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::So, we can start creating pages that list contents of periodicals that were not published in English, and which have not been translated?  As long as one story or poem from the periodical was translated into English somewhere?  Would the listing of [[Loeb Classical Library]] be OK to list translations that were not actually published as part of the Loeb series, as long as the translation were for the same work? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am fine limiting it to parts that are translated if that is really the concern (just like we do for Author pages, where we also don't want Authors with loads of titles that weren't translated). And yes I don't see it obviously bad to have say ''Istra''  or ''Pravda'' and then link to a translation of Lenin's articles published in ''Istra'', a link to a translation of Stalin's articles in ''Istra'' etc. I really don't follow the Loeb point. The first entry is &quot;L001 (1912) Apollonius Rhodius: Argonautica Translation by Seaton.&quot; which links to ''[[Argonautica]]'' which lists all translations of that work. Like ''[[The Works of Aristotle]]'' and many other collective works list the constitute volumes and the texts they contain. I have my opinion that having the context for these work in their original publication is valuable on the merits, you are free to disagree, and I feel that there are common enough occurrences / enough uncertainty within policy statements that there isn't consensus. If more people chime in, I am happy to defer to community consensus. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:47, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::My Loeb concern is a parallel to the current one.  If we can host a page for ''Cicaden'', listing a work that was translated, but for which the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden'', then could the Loeb page link to just ''any'' translation of the same classical work, by any translator, published anywhere?  And if not, then why can we do that for ''Cicaden''? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::But [[Loeb Classical Library]] is not a translations page, it's a &quot;base page&quot; of a book series (along the lines of [[Wikisource:Multi-volume works]]), which links to all the works in the Loeb library. Loeb is a series of translations into English, so its page is about ''those specific translations into English'', while translations pages are another thing altogether: they are about one non-English work, and list all translations of that work into English (I think we agree above, re Grimm, that these do not have to be full translations – partial translations into English are ok – and sometimes they contain translations not in the original text too – however you seem to be saying that translations must be published as separate works in their own right, though there are many cases where this is not the case, e.g. the ''Works of Goethe'' mentioned above). I'm confused when you say {{tqi|the translation was '''not''' in ''Cicaden'', nor part of a translation of ''Cicaden''}}, as translations of non-English works are never ''in'' the non-English work (by definition) and the translation linked to there ''is'' a translation of part of ''Cicaden'' (in a sense, the translation when considered alone is an {{tqi|incomplete edition}} of ''Cicaden'', to paraphrase the term you gave above). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]: Your response dodges the question by stretching the analogy past its intended point of application.
::::::::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] What do you think? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: you still haven't said which rules or guidelines prevent translations pages of anthologies, such as these, from linking to individual stories, yet seem to be implying that this is a settled question. If this does contravene Wikisource policy, why have you not deleted all of the many &quot;individual stories&quot; sections in the examples linked to above? And why are you reluctant for this to be discussed more widely, to see if there is a community consensus on this issue, and to allow guidelines to be written that cover this? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 11:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

:Just a note that I've added &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections to these articles, and removed all stories that have no known English translations, pending any future discussion. Would still like to know which rules the nominator is saying prevents these from being considered as translations pages, or if this is just based on personal interpretation of what translations pages are allowed to be. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 12:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::I say that there is nothing that ''permits'' these to be counted as translations pages, since (as you note) there are no English translations of the works ''Cicaden'', etc.  With no English translations, the pages should not exist.  If you feel that these ''are'' permitted, then there should be some evidence somewhere for that positive claim.  Burden of proof lies in demonstrating positive evidence, not negative, since negative evidence by its very nature cannot exist.  Under what criteria do you think they ''do'' fall within scope? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There clearly ''are'' translations of parts of them, which are linked to – and you already said above that many English translations are not complete – where are you drawing the line of what's allowed to be considered a translations page, any why isn't it documented? You're saying that Wikisource effectively has a &quot;whitelist&quot; approach to what is allowed – that everything must specifically be permitted, rather than a &quot;blacklist&quot; approach, prohibiting things which go against consensus, or some middle ground? Again, please can you link to the policy which says that this is the case. And again, ''nothing'' is specifically permitted on translations pages – no guidelines that I'm aware of have been written, only precedent of what has existed for many years – which is why I'm asking that we settle the principle first with wider community consensus, if you decide that it's no longer allowed. It would make life much easier to have all of this clarified in policy, so that editors can work under the assumption that their work won't be deleted. I'd also say there is no reason that any of this has be an adversarial process – surely the whole point is to be able to work together collaboratively to improve the project, rather than just yelling at each other? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 19:29, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See my question above concerning what this would mean for periodicals. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Your question above shows that this not a settled question – you're admitting that there are no guidelines around this, and explaining rhetorically why you believe your position should be the correct one ad absurdum. Going into the details like this, admitting the complexity of this stuff, and working out where to draw the line is exactly what I'm saying we should do – and that a deletion discussion singling out only a few examples of this isn't the best place for this discussion (especially when the examples you've come up with that show why this approach is bad are purely hypothetical, and aren't anywhere in these articles you've nominated for deletion). Would be good to discuss at Scriptorium to set the rules first, then apply them here. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, you've repeated the same question that I've already answered. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just to be clear, when I asked you to link to the policy these articles are in breach of, you came up with some philosophical reasoning about this, which seems to show that it ''is'' purely your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves, and I then asked you for the rules which support ''this''. So to make sure we're all on the same page, you seem to be saying that Wikisource has a whitelist approach – that only things specifically permitted are allowed, rather than a blacklist approach, or some combination of the two – if so, where is the policy that supports this, or is this again just your interpretation (if you're saying that your answer above is also an answer to this, then you seem to be accepting that ''is'' just your interpretation, and there are no policies that support what you're saying)? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 08:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::As I said, I have already replied.  Please do not spin your own original ideas into my response. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Not trying to spin anything – just trying to understand the rules you're saying these pages are in violation of. (I think you seem to have a very clear idea about how you think these rules should be applied, but it does look a lot like personal interpretation, and not based on any written rules, policies, or guidelines – I'm asking that, regardless of which way the community consensus falls on this issue, this is resolved as a written policy – I'm not sure why you would be opposed to this). --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 09:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I’m not convinced of the deletion rationale in the first place, but the nominator’s ill behaviour throughout the course of the discussion is very unbecoming. If another editor thinks these pages problematic, perhaps they can be nominated again in the future, but I don’t think that this discussion is very useful at this point. These lists are clearly valuable for people interested in approaching a specific bibliographical question; meanwhile, I don’t really see any negative in keeping them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

*Having only skimmed the TL;DR above, and looking at the pages for the first time just now, I wonder why these pages are not in the Portal: namespace. They would seem to me to be about linking to various pages within a wider project of translating the German originals. The pages don't sit comfortably in Mainspace: as they are not works themselves, nor are they any of our type of disambiguation page. Portal: namespace is much more suitable. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] I wouldn't be against this – but I think allowing translations pages to link to individual stories/poems is a better option for a couple of reasons: in cases where there are both full translations '''and''' individual story translations (such as [[Grimm's Household Tales]] and [[Fables (Aesop)]]), it would be easier for readers to have both on the same page, rather than a See also section with a link to a Portal: page (as I think most readers would have no idea what a portal is, or why they would have to go there to see another list about the same work). In cases where an author has some anthologies that have been translated as complete works, and other anthologies where each story has been translated separately (such as [[Author:Ernst Theodor Wilhelm Hoffmann|E. T. A. Hoffmann]], where ''Die Serapionsbrüder'' has been translated in one work, while ''Nachtstücke'' has had each story translated separately) it would be strange to link from the author page to a translations page for one, and a portal for the other – again I think this would confuse readers for no good reason. I would also not be surprised if overzealous Wikidatarers several years from now objected to some Wikidata items for anthologies linking to portal pages here while other anthologies linked to mainspace translations pages! But all that said, I'm glad to be able to discuss this and wouldn't be devastated if portals was what the community consensus agreed on – but as this affects many existing translations pages, not just the three nominated here, and because there's been precedent for many years of translations pages containing &quot;Individual stories&quot; sections, I hope it would be possible to have a Scriptorium discussion to settle the issue first, and ideally create a set of guidelines for the best way to handle this, which we could then apply to ''all'' of these pages. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 10:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

==[[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven, in Fife-shire.pdf]]==
This scan is missing two pages; we have several other copies of the same work ([[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (1).pdf|1]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (2).pdf|2]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|3]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|4]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fife-shire (3).pdf|5]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf|6]], [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buckhaven in Fife-shire.pdf|7]]). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Some of these appear to be different editions.  The image on the title pages differs among them.  Have you determined which one of the others is an identical edition? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}}: none of these appear to be the same edition. The closest that comes is [[Index:Ancient and modern history of Buck-haven in Fifeshire.pdf]], but it was published 11 years later and the formatting is different. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Alien333|Alien]]: That’s why I started a discussion here. There’s no reason to keep a broken scan, which will never be repaired as there is no complete copy in existence, especially when we have half a dozen scans of other editions of the same work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:{{vk}} - that seems to me a good reason to keep what there is. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:56, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Treaty of Vienna (Seventh Coalition)]] ==

Compilation of chosen chapters from a publication and of Wikisource annotations.

The book contains text published in British and Foreign State Papers, Volume 2. First there are some chapters from pages [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA444#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false 443 to 450], followed by a short chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA727#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 727], and again a chapter from [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yptfSzYlxrsC&amp;pg=PA750#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false page 450]. All this is accompanied by user created annotations, while original notes are left out. Overall the page is a compilation created to serve some narrative purpose, not a faithful published edition of a work. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:I am not exactly following the &quot;narrative purpose,&quot; it seems to me that it is a straightforward example of a disambiguation page / versions page as the two separate agreements (the &quot;Russian treaty and the &quot;Austrian treaty&quot;) are what make up the seventh coalition and are referred to as the &quot;Treaty of Vienna&quot;. It wouldn't surprise me if we found a later anthology of treaties that does a presentation exactly like here of them together while others treat them separately (and possibly being the origin of the comparative foot notes). A similar example is the Treaty / Peace of Westphalia, &quot;the collective name for two peace treaties,&quot; where you might have editions that print both treaties as one thing (hence &quot;versions&quot;) while other editions that print each of the two treaties separately (hence &quot;disambiguation&quot;). Until this is sourced it is hard to know which our current example is, it might have been a copy of a later edition that did the joining / annotations or it might have been the user. Given it is short, I would recommend just scan-backing the dozen or so pages linked in the &quot;References&quot;, and convert to a disambiguation page to them.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::Scanbacking would be great, without the Wikisource annotations, especially if the whole book were transcribed. If not the whole book, transcribing only the specific chapters would be good too, but the chapters should not be compiled together, they should be kept in the original order as in the book, with the original book's ToC. Extracting works from anthologies is not a very good practice itself, and combining them into non-existent editions of works is explicitely forbidden in WS.{{pbr}}It is quite possible, though not certain, that some anthology with similar compilation exists. If it does, it can be transcribed here too, but it must not be us who make such compilation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:06, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced editions of poems from The Princess ==

The following poems from Tennyson's ''The Princess'' are unsourced, and we have scan-backed editions of them in [[The Hundred Best Poems (lyrical) in the English language - second series]] (though not, as it happens, in our edition of [[The Princess; a medley]]).

* [[The Splendour Falls]]
* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]
* [[Ask Me No More]]

—[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The first and last both state that they are taken from physical copies of books - so they are not really unsourced, are they ? Just not scan-backed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's true. I still think they should be deleted though. They can't be scan backed because the editions they were checked against are not fully in the public domain. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:23, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That does not seem a strong enough reason for deleting those two. We can have multiple versions of the poems. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 05:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes we can have multiple versions, but we don't keep non-scan-backed versions when we have scan-backed versions. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::From: [[Wikisource:Deletion policy]] &quot;Redundant: Two versions of the same text on different pages, with no significant differences between them. An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've wondered multiple times if this extends to different editions. e.g., should [[Anna Karenina (Garnett)]], a PG copy of the 1901 translation, be deleted as redundant to [[Anna Karenina (Dole)]], a scan-backed copy of the 1899 translation? The &quot;same text&quot; next to the &quot;unsourced [...] redundant to a [...] (scanned) version&quot; can cause confusion. We should probably try to clarify that passage to explicitate whether or not G4 allows for deletion in cases like this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:56, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - does different layout count as a &quot;significant difference&quot; ? Or only the actual text ? --
:::::::[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:01, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] My impression is that what counts as &quot;significant difference&quot; is up to interpretation because people's opinions might vary, and hence the creation of threads on a case-by-case basis rather than something an admin can apply via a clear rule. As an example, edition differences might be something like year of publication from the same plates to for example a text-book being rewritten by another editor with whole new sections. There is also a general trend towards requiring scan-backed as opposed to merely stating a source, even if there may not be consensus around that yet. Hopefully, by slowly chipping away at our backlog of non-scan-backed works, we can reach consensus as the number of affected works by a change in policy become less and less. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 05:08, 7 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::This discussion seems to have ground to a halt. To clarify, I do think that:
:::::::::* [[O Swallow, Swallow]]
:::::::::* [[Thy Voice Is Heard]]
:::::::::* [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]]{{br}}
:::::::::should be made into redirects to the versions in &quot;The Hundred Best Poems&quot;.
:::::::::I suggest the other two should be moved and those pages made into versions pages. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:12, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I want to point out that &quot;Redundant&quot; isn't really the relevant point of policy here; if it were redundant I would have deleted it already under [[WS:CSD]] rather than posting it here for discussion. Instead, the reason I want to delete them, is that editions without scans are generally tolerated only because some works do not have any scans available; but these two poems not only ''do'' have scans available, but those scans have already been proofread and are already present on enWS. The most relevant policy here is not [[WS:CSD]], but rather [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Update: I have deleted [[O Swallow, Swallow]], [[Thy Voice Is Heard]], and [[Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead]] and replaced them with redirects (or in the case of Swallow, with a versions page). 
:However, I still believe that [[The Splendour Falls]] and [[Ask Me No More]] should be deleted, since they are from a publication that cannot be hosted here in full, which is something we usually only allow if no better edition is available, and that is not the case here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;something we usually only allow if no better edition is available&quot; - is that rule stated somewhere ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Probably not, but it's acknowledged at [[WS:WWI#Unsourced]] at least —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:12, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==

Currently [[WS:Copyright discussions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council|discussed]] also in Copyright discussions.

I am nominating it here for deletion as an apparent and imprecise second-hand transcription. While the original source of this work is [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026?v=pdf here], beginning with paragraph 58, the suspected source of our transcription is [https://defence.pk/threads/zulfiqar-ali-bhutto-fiery-speech-at-the-un-security-council-dec-1971.31067/]. Our text contains various typos or differences in wording in comparison with the original, but matches exactly with the other transcription. Just a few examples:

Original: has excelled in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: has excelled; in the art of filibustering&lt;br /&gt;
Suspected source: has excelled; in the art of filibustering

Original: meet at 9.30 a.m. or whether bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: meet at 9.30 a.m. or that bed and breakfast required&lt;br /&gt;

Original: And why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
Our text: Why should China...&lt;br /&gt;
S.Source: Why should China...

I found these after very brief and superficial comparison, so it is certain that a more detailed comparison would discover more. Because second-hand transcriptions are not allowed here (their unreliability being one of the reasons of their exclusion), I suggest deletion of the text. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:Except that site that you link says it was sourced ''from'' wikisource, and was posted in 2009 when our work dates from 2008. So I suppose that either our text was taken from some other unidentified source or it was transcribed directly from the video. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:13, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry, haven't noticed that. However, I have found some original video too, and our text does not follow what is being said there either. For example:

::Video text:...So what if we are obliterated.
::Our text: ...So what if our state is obliterated.

::So it is not a direct transcription of the speech either. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:This strikes as exactly the standard, we have an unsourced edition. Especially with speeches, these type of errors could come from a differences in sourcing, e.g. prepared vs. delivered, official vs various unofficial transcriptions. I would treat this as we routinely do for other unsourced editions, replace with a sourced / backed edition with clear sourcing, as opposed to deleting it without replacement. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
::We cannot keep it as unsourced because I found the probable source and linked to it above. However, our policy regarding second-hand transcriptions does not allow accepting such sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:47, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Which probable source was that ? What you originally thought was the source seemed more likely to have been taken from the wikisource version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, true, you had already written that before, I am sorry. I am still not convinced about this &quot;version&quot; being worthy keeping, but I understand your point. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|I have added a {{tl|delete}}.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:08, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875]] ==

This page is based on a Commons PDF created from a website.  We have not accepted user-created PDFs based on website secondhand transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:54, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], please see my Talk Page for a response to this.
:Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 18:16, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::The deletion discussion is happening here.  If there is information the community should know before making a decision, then that information should be included in the conversation here, and not in some other location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:23, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello all, I have since found the original copies of the legislation on the Legislation Index by the UK government, I plan to upload these to Wiki Commons tomorrow and request for the deletion of the old, source which breaches ToS.
:::The one on the 'www.legislation.gov.uk' is over 100 years old and therefore is covered under the [https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/ Open Government License 3.0], which permits me to upload it.
:::If anyone has anything else to add, don't be hesitant to reply. Most of the talking happened on my [[User talk:Duck Dur|Talk Page]] and can be viewed there.
:::Regards,
:::&lt;br&gt; [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 20:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added in the new source piece from the Legislation Index that is covered under the Open Government License.
::::Please do tell me if this qualifies for a revocation of the deletion order. [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 09:05, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that with a primary source, this can be kept, if that's the question.
:::::(Also: it's not really a question of &quot;order&quot; - it's a discussion, which will, except for a few exceptions, last at least a week.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:20, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Great, thank you! [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 11:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, though, you need to actually change the text of the page. Right now it's still the content from website, and that's very different from the content of the PDF.
:::::::So unless you transcribe the PDF itself, this is still out of scope. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:43, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello [[User:Alien333|Alien333]],
::::::::Thank you for seeing that, I shall update it now (if not, by this evening GMT time)
::::::::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 08:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Updated [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 21:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I think that now we've got this transcribing accurately an actual primary scan. Good to keep? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Where?  I do not see any transcription from a scan on the nominated page, nor any link above to an Index for such a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 11:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::The page's header does links to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_Records_(Ireland)_Act_1867_Amendment_Act_1875.pdf the scan at commons], which itself links to [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/38-39/59/contents/enacted the gov.uk source]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::How does that equate to &quot;now we've got this transcribing accurately&quot;?  No transcription from the scan has been made into Page: namespace for transclusion.  The margin for the sidenotes only covers the numbered items portion of the page, but should run for the entire document.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Though it's certainly better, I think it's not mandatory for transcriptions to be necessarily through proofreadpage. (Or else we've got hundreds of work to delete, if a link to a scan isn't a sufficient source.)
::::::::::::::On sidenotes, {{done}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::When the transcription is supported by a Commons file, but isn't yet proofread in Page space, there really ought to be an Index and a template advising migration to the scan-supported Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:There is now an Index based on the Commons file, BUT it seems to be a damaged file that doesn't want to display.  Delete all and start again with a good scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::Hello ShakespeareFan00, I’m the original creator/uploader of this page. Could you clarify what you mean by &quot;damaged file&quot;? The file seems okay on my end.
::Regards, [[User:Duck Dur|Duck Dur]] ([[User talk:Duck Dur|talk]]) 22:28, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:::The standalone copy at [[Index:The Public Records (Ireland) Act 1867 Amendment Act 1875.pdf]] gives problems with the second and third pages. The underlying file at Commons seems fine when I download from there, but is showing problems with the thimbnails. @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has now added a transclusion from a different source. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Declaration de Ravachol original.djvu]] ==

This is the manuscript original of the ''Déclarations de Ravachol'', which is already translated from [[Index:Déclarations de Ravachol.djvu]].  This makes it a duplicate French text.  Per [[Wikisource:Translations]] (under &quot;Wikisource original translations&quot;): &quot;There should only be a single translation to English per original language work.&quot;  So having a second translation from French of the same French work goes against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' As you yourself state, they are two different works: the manuscript version and the published version. Thus, we may have an English-language translation of each. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:No, they are different manifestions of the ''same'' work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*Yes, they are different; as I said, they are different editions, and can be translated differently. The policy is put in place to avoid multiple different translations of the same work, not to avoid translations of multiple editions. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:32, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:Policy restricts user-created translations to one from each ''work'', not one from each ''edition''.  And it was precisely textual variation possibilities that led to capping the number at one; otherwise, every textual variant of every Biblical book, every Greek play, every Vedic prayer, becomes a possible new Wikisource-original translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*No, that is not the case; the issue is multiple translations of the same specific work, not translations of multiple editions of one work. Using an English work as an example, (and thus presuming it to be written in a foreign language so that we would apply our rules), we could only have one edition of ''Leaves of Grass'', which would have one of two results: either we omit material found in one edition but not another, or we produce a Frankenstein’s monster of an edition (like Project Gutenberg) that contains all of the disparate elements. Both of these options are obviously bad, and they could both be avoided by following my approach. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*:We voted in policy that restricts one translation per ''work'', not per ''edition'', or ''version'', or ''manifestation'', or anything else below the top-level of ''work''.  The term &quot;work&quot; encompasses all variant forms.  In your response above, you witch meanings of &quot;work&quot; within the first sentence alone.  I cannot accept that different editions are actually separate works, or we would have no versions pages and no translations pages; the core idea is that the versions and translations are grouped together because they are the same work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:(I used AI for translating my answer because I figured it would be easier and more clear to write it in my native tongue before translating it) I would like to speak to explain why I think we should either keep both versions or simply the handwritten one. To do so, we need to briefly introduce the history of these texts. Ravachol was arrested and put on trial at the beginning of 1892; during his second trial, he was accused of having committed murders and was facing the death penalty (which he would ultimately receive). He wrote a text to read during the trial, but it was refused by the judge, and Ravachol gave it to his lawyer, Louis Lagasse, on 21st? 22nd? June 1892. On the manuscript, we see two hands: the first corresponds to that of Ravachol, and he corrects his own text by making deletions and changing words, and the second, which does not use the same ink, calligraphy, or spelling. This second hand corrects only the spelling mistakes, so it’s not really important for this discussion, but I mention it anyway. Lagasse passes this text on to the conservative newspaper Le Temps, which republishes it on 23rd June 1892, largely based on the manuscript (although they add punctuation and make some mistakes in reading, the text remains 95% the same, we could say, differing only on orthographic issues here and there).
:This first published version was heavily criticised by French anarchist circles, notably ''La Révolte'', the main French anarchist newspaper of the time (or at least one of the main ones, even if it was losing momentum at the time, but that doesn’t matter much). They found it too ‘stupid’ and not good enough; and ten days later, on 3rd July 1892, Lagasse publishes the second version – which is the one that went down in history but differs greatly from Ravachol’s text. I made a small compilation of the most notable differences, and the text is not very long, so removing or adding a paragraph – something already not insignificant in a long work – is really huge here. There are three types of differences, since I’ll skip over the spelling and typographical questions, which are not very relevant and belong more to the ‘normal’ editorial work, let’s say – Lagasse adds passages, Lagasse removes passages, Lagasse rewrites passages. I think in the sample you have a bit of each; the conclusion, for example, is completely Lagasse’s creation – he makes a sort of lyrical outburst about the fact that he (Lagasse's Ravachol) is merely a worker and that this would give him a particular relationship to repression, etc – which is typically the kind of rhetoric one can find in the bourgeois imaginary of that time, by the way. In the sample, we also see a long passage about his relation to anarchism, the reasons why he chose it, and what he envisions for the future, which Lagasse removes altogether; there are also passages where he talks about manual trades (silk work, baking), characteristic of the working class of the fin de siècle, and one might note that silk work is a profession particularly present in Montbrison, where he was being tried and where he was born; so we probably have here a kind of historical opening either onto his choice of using that example or a reinforcement of the fact that the imaginary he develops in his text is deeply marked by the working-class world of his time. Lagasse removes that.
:In my view, we should keep both; because the text given by Lagasse had an influence on the history of the left, which never read the manuscript nor the edition of the manuscript in Le Temps, if you will; but at the same time, if we had to keep only one – since I was told that was the way it had to be – I would choose to keep Ravachol’s directly; we know it is from him, we know it is his thinking and his text, and it is published in almost identical form except for a few errors by Le Temps, and this publication precedes Lagasse’s (logical).
:{{collapse|Original : For today, if you destroy one criminal, tomorrow ten more will rise. So what must be done? Destroy misery—the seed of crime—by ensuring everyone’s needs are met. And how easy this would be! All it would take is to rebuild society on new foundations, where all is held in common, where each produces according to their abilities and strength, and consumes according to their needs. No longer would we waste labor on useless, harmful things—safes, locks—since there’d be no fear of theft or murder. No more need for money to survive, no dread that the baker might lace bread with dangerous additives to cheat customers. Why would they? Profit would vanish; like everyone else, they’d have easy access to necessities for their work and life. No more inspectors weighing bread, testing coins, or auditing accounts—none of it would matter.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version :
:There will always be criminals, for today you destroy one, and tomorrow ten more will arise. So, what is needed? To destroy poverty, the breeding ground of crime, by ensuring that everyone’s needs are met! And how easy this would be to achieve! It would suffice to reorganize society on new foundations where everything is held in common, and where each person, producing according to their abilities and strengths, could consume according to their needs.
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : In the silk industry, we would no longer see the rampant speculation that has plagued it from the start—where middlemen force silk to absorb various additives to increase its weight or create a false appearance. By the time the silk reaches the dyer, these same additives must be stripped away so the fabric can properly absorb dyes and chemical fixatives. Then, at the dyer’s turn—and because the manufacturer demands it—the silk is made to absorb up to four-fifths (or more) of its natural weight in processing agents.
:::::::This is especially true for black-dyed silk; I cannot confirm if colored silks are as heavily adulterated, but I am certain many are.
:Yet if we carefully consider all the wasted materials and labor expended to produce them, it becomes clear how much effort is squandered in saturating silk with these chemicals—only to later burn them out. The silk itself is ruined by excessive treatments, many of which are hazardous to workers and render the fabric unsafe against the skin. Even the dust released as these chemicals dry poses health risks.
:Under a rational system, dyeing would no longer be a haphazard process, as it is today. Work could be organized efficiently, eliminating the absurdity of dyeing batches ranging from a hundred grams to a hundred kilograms—a practice born solely from the chaos of competing interests. (end of the text)
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version : Removes that whole part
:&lt;br&gt;
:Original : Nothing there 
:&lt;br&gt;
:Lagasse's version (adds a conclusion where Ravachol would say something about the fact that he is a worker and this would make him feel even more the repressive nature of laws ; a whole part of the text (the conclusion) not to be found anywhere else) (and I mean it doesn't take a PhD to figure that this kind of sentences are not from an illiterate man) : &quot;I am only an uneducated worker; but because I have lived the life of the wretched, I feel the injustice of your repressive laws more deeply than any wealthy bourgeois. Where do you get the right to kill or imprison a man who, brought into this world with the necessity to live, found himself forced to take what he lacked in order to feed himself? I worked to live and to provide for my family; as long as neither I nor mine suffered too much, I remained what you call honest. But then work became scarce, and with unemployment came hunger. It was then that the great law of nature, that imperative voice that brooks no reply—the instinct for survival—drove me to commit some of the crimes and offenses you accuse me of, and which I admit to having committed.}} [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 19:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
::And also, I forgot but I should say that we shouldn't forget that Lagasse's version wasn't designed to be an actual rendition of Ravachol's  words or text ; this is probably what he tried to do by giving the manuscript to Le Temps first, but after the huge criticism Le Temps and him received, he probably switched ; what I mean is that we are not in presence of a 'random' editor of the text who would do a normal editorial work ; Lagasse was his lawyer and had to defend him ; and this clearly superceded the idea of giving a good edition of the text. This is why the auction website which published the mss photographs I used claims that while we can't really say that Lagasse falsified, because he did that to help Ravachol and in many cases he actually retook what Ravachol had done, well, it was not that far. [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::And I speak too much (sorry :( ) but I mean I created Author:Ravachol like 2 days ago and was the one who added and translated the Lagasse's version today, like 3/4 hours before adding the manuscript, so it's not like I'm asking to destroy the edition of someone else who did a great job and deserve to keep their text + that is well received in Wikisource since decades, you know. I just feel like if we need to chose, and it seems we do, let's chose the actual base. We would lose the Lagasse's version but I mean it will still exist in FR:Wikisource in 2 different editions (1892 and 1935) + there are translations online of that version (Marxist.org among others) so :shrugging: [[User:Aristoxène|Aristoxène]] ([[User talk:Aristoxène|talk]]) 22:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== All unproofread pages from Plum Bun ==

As discovered in [[User talk:Prospectprospekt#Plum Bun|this conversation]], all of the pages attached to [[Index:Plum bun - a novel without a moral (IA plumbunnovelwith00fausrich).djvu]] were all created by match-and-split using a secondhand text, which runs afoul of [[WS:WWI]]. Therefore, all of the unproofread pages attached to this Index should be deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Unless they are hindering your or others' ability to proofread the work, I believe that these pages should be kept. From my experience, match-and-splitting from a secondhand source slashes proofreading time in half because you can just use the &quot;compare changes&quot; button to check for scannos instead of having to read or skim the entire OCR text. These pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;--I am using them to ''help me proofread''; I am not ''presenting them as proofread''. Only the latter goes against what I believe is the purpose of our prohibition on second-hand transcriptions, which is to prevent misrepresentation. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:25, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::I see no evidence at all that you are using the match-and-split to help you proofread.  You proofread the first 46 in March, then did a match-and-split one month later for the remaining 340 pages, and have done no proofreading since then on any of those match-and-split pages.
::The deletion nomination is the result of misuse of match-and-split.  First, the filling in and Index from a secondhand text is a ''violation of policy''.  The text should be generated ''from the scan'', and not from some secondhand source.  Second, the filling in an Index from a second-hand source itself ''misrepresents what has been done''.  Some of us have a lot more experience with the fallout of match-and-split.  When outside sources are pasted in, that results in errors to spelling and punctuation, and those errors persist for years, even decades.  Third, this is a Monthly Challenge work, and my experience is that once the text has been generated, most new editors who participate in the MC do not compare the text against the scan for discrepancies, but instead look for inherently misspelled words and missing punctuation.  So the secondhand transcription creates problems for Wikisource on multiple levels. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:42, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Your final point is valid, while your second and third points are the reason why the pages are marked &quot;not proofread&quot;. When proofreading, I am not changing the secondhand text; rather, I am changing the OCR-generated text and comparing that to the secondhand text. I did this for the second half of [[Iola Leroy]] and plan to do this for other works. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 01:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The issue isn't that you are not changing the secondhand text, but rather that you're using a secondhand text at all. You used a bot to paste in the secondhand text into every page creation. When you do that, the text (OCR) from the text layer of the scan is gone. At that point no editor has the means to compare them unless they have the technical know-how to directly access the text layer hidden in the scan without using the editor.  The majority of users here do not know how to do that. So you have prevented most users from accessing that text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I don't care anymore if these pages are deleted or kept. This is because this is a scan of the UK edition, while the American edition has different pagination and I want to transcribe that. My sole desire now is to not be prohibited from using second-hand transcriptions in the future. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 13:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just my opinion: if you use second-hand transcription as a basis of a real proofreading process using the proofread extention and if you proofread it in a short time after adding such text to the work's index pages, it could imo be tolerated. However, such a text should definitely not be added here, replacing original OCR layer, and then left abandoned for months. So, I am supporting the deletion, too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:14, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]] - you are comparing the OCR text with this other source ? Are you looking at the actual scans ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:30, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08]] ==

Now redundant to [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu]]. Apparently this used to use single images as pages, but now that we have a full scan, this mapping is redundant. Courtesy ping to previous editors: {{ping|Library Guy|Billinghurst|Bob Burkhardt|Einstein95|Nosferattus|p=}}. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|([[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: IIRC pings don't work without a signature, so I think these people were not pinged in the end. Except if my adding a signature pings them *shrug*.)}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Alien333}} I've tried resigning my own message in the hope it helps. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 18:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{comment}} All of these pages: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:The_New_International_Encyclopædia_1st_ed._v._08]] will need to be edited to fix transclusion.  There are about 50 article pages whose transclusion was broken in a Jan 2022 bot edit.  I am moving all of the .jpg transcribed pages into the new Index, but the articles will still have to be fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:48, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:All of the individual pre-existing content pages have now been migrated to the DjVu Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} All of those jpg pages were fake. Their transcriptions are not accurate and should probably not be copied over. The fake pages were created from a different edition that has different content (including both formatting and wording changes). I think it would be best to re-transcribe them from scratch (considering how cursory most of the proofreading on Wikisource is). [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 19:33, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::They were not &quot;fake&quot;; they were proofread against image pages sources from Google Books.  A cursory examination showed that they contain the same content as the corresponding pages of the DjVu scan.  If there are differences, then they can be proofread against the scan.  As it was, they were hidden from view, without bringing the issue to anyone.  If they should have been deleted for being from a different edition, then they should have been tagged and nominated here.  Likewise for the pages that transclude them.  All this should have been done ''before'' the pages were moved, not after. Could you please provide specific examples of the differences you mention?  I do not see them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Feel free to slap me: was this the volume where we had an issue with photoshopped pages to merge editions, or am I confusing this with an EB1911-related thingy? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:30, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Several of the pages were, in fact, faked with modifications made in Photoshop or a similar program. For example, [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 001.jpg]] (which was deleted from Commons), [[:File:NIE 1905 - p. 810.jpg]], and [[:File:NIE 1905 - title page.jpg]] (which I replaced with a scan of the actual title page). I am sure that there are content differences (not just formatting differences) between the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition. I don't remember what the specific content differences are, but that was the reason I [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14950883 blanked the index] and started the discussion on the Scriptorium. The differences were minor wording changes and I don't think they will be caught by proofreaders. These pages should not be used for the 1905 edition and they should be transcribed from scratch. I'm sorry I didn't nominate them for deletion at the time. I tried to bring this to everyone's attention on the Scriptorium, but I guess that wasn't adequate. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 14:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: See [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-03#The New International Encyclopædia transcription uses fake sources]] for an earlier discussion on this. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:34, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have seen that thread.  But the discussion was about images, and no deletion nomination was ever made for any of the pages, neither those in the Page: namespace nor the articles in the Mainspace that used those transcriptions.. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The following pages should also be deleted per the discussion above, as they are based on the 1903 edition, not the 1905 edition:
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/12]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/13]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/96]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/97]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/98]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/99]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/100]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/101]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/102]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/103]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/104]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/105]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/112]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/113]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/366]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/367]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/373]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/374]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/395]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/396]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/397]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/400]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/466]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/467]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/654]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/655]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/656]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/659]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/660]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/661]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/662]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/663]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/664]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/665]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/666]]
*[[Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 08.djvu/917]]
The pages between 205 and 215 seem to be based on the scan of the actual 1905 edition, however, and can be kept. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 16:07, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm confused now.  The scan of the 1905 edition is the first edition, but these are from an ''earlier'' 1903 edition?  If all the pages are from a different edition, then the original reason for nomination of deletion (redundant) is not valid, because they are different editions.  I also have yet to see any evidence presented that they are in fact different, we have only an assertion that there must be differences, without actually demonstrating any.  So this presents two issues to be resolved: (1) How can the 1905 edition be the first edition, if there was a 1903 edition that is supposed to be so different? (2) Are there in fact any differences between the scans and the transcribed pages listed above? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:30, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Both the 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are the &quot;First Edition&quot;, even though they are different in both layout and content. You can find textual differences in the very first entry: FONTANES. The 1903 edition says &quot;Fontane's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/el1MAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=560] The 1905 edition says &quot;Fontanes's works&quot; in the last sentence.[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu/page12-2049px-The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08.djvu.jpg] The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are significantly different. We cannot use the 1903 edition as sources for the 1905 edition and the pages that were transcribed from the faked 1905 images have to be retranscribed from scratch. If you want to create a 1903 edition transcription project and move the pages to that, feel free to do so, but it seems rather pointless to me. The 1903 edition is basically just a sloppy version of the 1905 edition with lots of typos and different volume organization. It has the same topic entries (as far as I can tell); they're just not as well edited. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:10, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::If the layout and content are in fact different, then they are ''not'' the same edition.  When a work is altered through editing, it's a new edition.  That's what an edition is; it's a particular result of editing.  But the ''only'' difference I have so far been made aware of is the addition of a single letter '''s''', which is not enough to claim they are &quot;significantly different&quot;. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
::::&quot;... then they are ''not'' the same edition.&quot; That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 1903 edition and the 1905 edition are two different editions even though they are both called &quot;First Edition&quot;. Even [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], the user who created the fake pages, admitted that they didn't always correspond.[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index_talk%3AThe_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_1st_ed._v._08&amp;diff=6568581&amp;oldid=6269714] I'm not going to re-find all the differences for you. You can either believe me and delete them or you can use the bogus transcriptions. Using transcriptions from a different edition, however, seems to defeat the whole purpose of having them scan-backed. If you want it to be an accurate transcription of the work as published, those pages should be retranscribed, IMO. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 00:45, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::So, ''if'' they're not the same edition, then labeling them both as &quot;first edition&quot; is likely the source of conflation, and we should change that to a date.  But if they're not the same edition, then the reason for deletion given at the outset of this discussion is incorrect, because if they are different, then one is not redundant to the other.  We do host multiple editions of works when the editions are different.  But again, no evidence has been provided that they are in fact different aside from a single letter.  Such minor differences are not worth worrying about. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::I disagree with the statement that minor differences are not worth worrying about. That's the entire reason that we proofread and verify works against scans. If you want to find more differences between the two editions, just look, they aren't hard to find. I'm not involved in this transcription project at all, so I have no interest in wasting more time on it. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms to begin with. I leave it in the hands of whoever wants to work on the transcription. The only thing I ask is that if the pages are kept there is some notice that they were transcribed from a different edition. [[User:Nosferattus|Nosferattus]] ([[User talk:Nosferattus|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::And I disagree, because we have been given no evidence of any difference, other than the one letter, which is easily corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC).

== [[The Exeter Book (Jebson)]] ==

This is an incomplete copypaste from an electronic transcription of the work. I am not sure whether it should be considered a second-hand transcription or a transcription of an electronic edition, but in any case the original electronical source does not exist anymore and now only its archived version in [https://web.archive.org/web/20090108184531/http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/exeter.html web.archive] survives. In theory somebody could finish the transcription from the archive (though it is not likely), but I believe that our task is not web-archive mirroring and that copypasting the text from there is not the way we should follow.

Besides, all the transcribed sections contain the note &quot;Edited by Tony Jebson..., all rights reserved&quot;. Although there does not seem to be anything really copyrightable on the first sight and so we probably do not have to take the note into account, it at least indicates that the editor did not really wish his transcription to be freely copied. I would ignore the note under other circumstances, but here it is just another small argument added to all the major ones mentioned before.

Therefore I suggest deleting the incomplete transcription, thus creating space for a better one. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Wouldn't we normally proofread a scanned edition first, and then delete the substandard one afterwards? We don't have any other hosted editions of most of the works in this collection. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::Note: there appears to be a decent edition here: {{esl|https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll/page/n13/mode/2up}} —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, that is the usual attitude towards full but unsourced editions, not towards incomplete copypastes whose sources are not unknown, but have been removed from the internet. Here the problems are piling up too much, without much hope of this work being completed in this state of affairs. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Since this is an anthology, we can't treat it only as an incomplete copypaste of ''The Exeter Book'', but also as a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Crist&quot;, a ''complete'' copypaste of &quot;Guthlac A&quot; and &quot;Guthlac B&quot;, and so forth. If we can get better copies of each of these works, I will happily support the deletion of this edition. Note that we do already have editions of some of these poems, e.g. &quot;The Phoenix&quot; and &quot;The Wanderer&quot; which are included in ''[[Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader]]''. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

== Unsourced court cases ==

Added by [[User:Taiwan prepares~enwikisource|Taiwan prepares~enwikisource]] in 2008. None state a source. For most of them, I could find the full text of these cases nowhere online:
* [[Haimes v. Temple University Hospital]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Gerbode]]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1989)]]
* [[Church of Scientology International v. Superior Court]]
For three of them, some versions of these texts exist:
* [[Church of Scientology v. Armstrong]]: [https://archive.org/details/a075027/A075027-Vol-23/page/n275/mode/2up], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/232/1060.html], [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1769387.html]
* [[Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology]]: [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1760305.html], [https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/212/872.html]
* [[Religious Technology Center v. Scott (1996)]]: [https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/religious-technology-center-v-892863245]
However, these possible sources all have different formatting&lt;ins&gt; from what we have&lt;/ins&gt;, and often also different content (for example a {{tqi|[14]}} being present in a source but not in the work). Either these are not the sources of these works, and they are thus still unsourced, or the fidelity is below our standards. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Those whose sources cannot be tracked and which are not to be found anywhere should definitely be deleted as unverifiable. I agree also with deleting the following three pages per nom., i.e. as being bellow our standards. We cannot keep texts which more or less correspond to sources, our standards require texts fully faithful to sources. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:34, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now; I’ve done a lot of work sourcing court cases and should be able to obtain copies of these. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: Our copy is correct in removing the “[14]”, as that number refers to the (copyrighted) syllabus authored by West (the publisher of the reporter in which the case was printed); our copy presumably is sourced originally to the court copy (which does not have the later-added syllabus). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== A True Relation of what passed between Mr. John Dee and some Spirits ==
{{closed/s|1=[[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] deleted as an inferior duplicate of [[Index:Deespirits.djvu]]}}
[[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] and [[Index:A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits.djvu]] are both scans of the same book. (The ''exact'' same; both come from {{IA|truefaithfulrela00deej}}.) I started the second one, not knowing the first one was already underway. We only need one, merged one. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Deespirits.djvu has sharper text, a better file to work with. (Compare [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Deespirits.djvu/page83-2237px-Deespirits.djvu.jpg] to [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu/page83-2237px-A_True_and_Faithful_Relation_of_What_Passed_for_Many_Years_Between_Dr_John_Dee_and_Some_Spirits.djvu.jpg].) However, the later has more pages filled out. I can copy those over. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 20:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{comment}} If you could transfer the contents you created to the other Index, then we can simply delete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The accompanying page [[A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr John Dee and Some Spirits]] should probably be deleted also. This book is unlikely to be page-worthy anytime soon. The page was created in a moment of overconfidence, not reckoning how hard to parse an old book like this is. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: ([[Index:Deespirits.djvu]] is ''much'' more readable than the other one, especially for the details; you may have more luck with that one.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:37, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Some people start transclusion quite early in the process, so that main page could be left - and marked incomplete.
:::::By the way, I note that you have not reflected the colours on the title page. Why was that ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Eievie|Eievie]]: It looks like you have copied those pages, and so we can delete the index. Is that correct? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:15, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, it's ready for deletion. Go ahead. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 06:17, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:20, 14 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Chapter heading]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; deprecated for a year and a half; now not used}}
The last remaining uses have been migrated, and this was already marked as Deprecated for at least a year. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[The Hole of the Pit]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; unsourced copypaste}}
Added without source or license.  Looks like a copy-paste without formatting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::It would be nice to find a scan of this that could be transcribed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars ==
*[[Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians]]
*[[Fragments of poetry by Julius Caesar]]
*[[Lives of Eminent Grammarians]]
All extracts of some form or other of [https://archive.org/details/livesoftwelvecae00suet_1]; the last two being furthermore secondary transcriptions. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Transcription has started at [[Index:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::The first has now been replaced by a scan-backed copy - though a scan of just that piece. 
::As I understand that ther first and third were separate works originally, isn't it acceptable to treat the transalations as separate works ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:53, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Hemingway&amp;#39;s articles for the Toronto Star]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; arbitrary compilations}}
===[[Hemingway's articles for the Kansas City Star]]===

These are not works, but arbitrary compilations. An author page clears up this need fine. This deletion request is just for the &quot;articles for the&quot; compilations, not the pages linked within them. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed - {{vd}}. As you say, the author page covers this, and the pages for the newspapers also gathers these items. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] ==

Inferior dupe of [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]]. Granted, it's the older page, but that page doesn't have a source, while the page I linked does. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 06:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Best to make it a redirect or soft redirect, no ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: My delete votes never preclude redirection as an option. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:My intention on processing the whole first issue of [[The Radio Times]] was to turn the previous single article into a redirect, but I got the impression that I was stepping on the toes of another maintainer, so I moved on to a different periodical which doesn't have anyone else working on it. Sorry for leaving the situation with the 'message to listeners' unresolved. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 14:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Whenever I encounter a sourceless text where there is a source available, I just copy&amp;paste the sourced text over the unsourced one. We want sourced texts anyways, so I figure it's a good thing I'm doing. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 17:06, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
:::But in this case, the source is given on the talk page. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Beardo]]: I am certain that [[User:CitationsFreak]] meant to say &quot;scan backed&quot;. Also, you know of the scan backed preference here.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] - then they need to be more precise in what they write. But even that is not accurate - there's a scan sitting in the talk page ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Beardo]] for your precision, &quot;scan-backed&quot; means Main space publications with page numbers linked to the scan page.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::That discussion is at [[Talk:The Radio Times#Layout of Main Page and Individual Issue Pages]]. In no part of it did I discourage you from continuing to work on the volume. Indeed, my lengthy reply gave you some helpful pointers on copyright and on markup, on the assumption that you would continue. In your response you thanked me and agreed with some of my suggestions. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Keep''' As I have pointed out previously, and contrary to the false claim above, this does have a source - see its talk page. 
: Far from being &quot;inferior&quot;, the original transcription is ''superior'' - it correctly credits the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]], describes the work in {{para|notes}}, and has copyright information.
:It is galling to see a duplicate of one's work deliberately created, then to have that work proposed for deletion, wiping out one's contributions from the history.
:Redirect the new version to the old one. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 12:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension, which provides easier verifiability. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The use of a particular tool is irrelevant to the quality of the transcription which—as I have just evidenced [in a paragraph I have had to restore after you deleted it - don't do that]—is higher in the original. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: sorry for the deleted comments. I use a homemade tools for discussions which apparently doesn't handle edit conflicts well. Going to step back for a moment to avoid further edit conflicts. I think I've readded all I accidentally deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::You didn't; I am having to restore another of my edits which you reverted. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 13:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: God damn it. Sorry for the mess. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::The new version credits the article to Jack Pease, both in the header of the page and in the first line of the article. Granted, the old version does have some information that the new does not have, but I'm just gonna add them in the new version so that no information is lost. [[User:CitationsFreak|CitationsFreak]] ([[User talk:CitationsFreak|talk]]) 19:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Again; the original version correctly ''cites'' the author as [[Author:Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford|Jack Pease, 1st Baron Gainford]]. The other does not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Scan-backing with ProofreadPage isn't just any &quot;tool&quot;—it's ''the'' fundamental way we are supposed to present content here. It's the ideal end-product, as the ultimate goal for content presentation on this site is to scan-back ''everything''. Transcribing a work without scan-backing it is ''technically'' still allowed but not preferred, so it should be ''expected'' to be eventually replaced by a scan-backed and proofread copy.
: The ''source'' of [[Radio Times/1923/09/28/My message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] and [[The Radio Times/1923/09/28/My Message to &quot;Listeners&quot;]] also appear to be fundamentally the same edition of the same work. If there's anything that needs to be improved about the scan-backed version, such as missing info, missing authors, missing PD tags, OCR errors, lower-quality images, etc., these can simply be modified there—no need to defer to a scanless version. Also, this work is a tiny periodical article that's less than a page long anyway, so fixes should be relatively straightforward. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is—as I said—not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::: You misunderstand: I did not comment on the quality on the transcription, but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one, at the equivalent quality of transcription (which is the case here; I could mention in the non-PRP page the missing formatting for the subtitle and the caption). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Your {{tqi|&quot;The version listed here is not of equivalent quality to the newer one: that one uses the ProofreadPage extension&quot;}} was in response to my &quot;the original transcription is ''superior''&quot;. 
::::You're right that the formatting of the captions are different; the newer page lacks the correct emboldening. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: The older page does miss some emboldening too; and also some centering (Lord Gainford, &amp;c). Plus, MW image frames. It at any rate isn't better by a wide margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 21:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{sm|@[[User:Pigsonthewing|Pigsonthewing]]: I have corrected the {{tl|tq}} in your comment to {{tl|tqi}}, as I think that's rather what you meant. Here tq isn't talk quote but an outdated template on text quality.}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:37, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Basically everything is a tool on some level. But as I maintain, it's not ''just a tool''. It's a ''necessity''. The mentality of ProofreadPage isn't just &quot;I should do this to help me get from Point A to Point B&quot;, it's &quot;This is our standardized way of proving the content we gave is authentic to the original scan&quot;.
: Especially considering that the transcription is literally of a newspaper article that spanned less than one page, if you think there are problems with the scan-backed version, just fix them yourself. There's no gatekeeper of ProofreadPage or transclusion—''anyone'' can still edit that content, and if there are problems they can just be fixed. Pages don't exist in a static state on a wiki, and that includes if ProofreadPage was used.
: So, &quot;it was done worse than my non-scan-backed version&quot; == &quot;let's make it better&quot;, not &quot;it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do&quot;. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Again: If you read what I wrote, you will see that my reference to ProofreadPage as a &quot;tool&quot;—which it unquestionably is—was in the context of another editor's claim that its use was material to the quality of the ''transcription of the original''. It is ''still'' not. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 16:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: And again: {{tqi|I did not comment on the quality on the transcription,}} (or of the source for that matter,) {{tqi|but on the quality of the page as a whole: a PRP page is simply better than a non-PRP one}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: (ec) So, that's still not a valid argument to keep the non-scan-backed one alongside the scan-backed one... All the things you've named as potential improvements to the scan-backed version are fixable, and ''pretty much immediately'' fixable at that. So, why is this being positioned as an argument for keeping what are essentially two duplicate works—where one uses a ''deprecated'' sourcing method (sourcing an external link and a crop of a page on the talk page), and the other one uses a ''modern'' sourcing method (using ProofreadPage to centralize the entire newspaper issue as a whole)?
::: And on the topic of &quot;scan-backing having something to do with quality&quot;, I would much rather read a scan-backed work than one that wasn't scan-backed. It shows that our standards were followed better, and that the content can be proven more quickly and in a more central location (WS or Commons filespace). So there ''is'' certainly an argument to be made that scan-backing a work is itself an improvement in quality. ''Does that 100% mean the quality was improved?'' No. But what I'm saying is if you take content that was already on a page, and then scan-back it, you just improved the quality of that page.
::: (And that's not even getting into the ''statistical'' quality argument, which is that scan-backing coincides with works being formatted and transcribed better. And this is overwhelmingly demonstrable. That may not apply to this specific case, since you did format this particular newspaper article well, but you can't deny that a majority of works sent to [[WS:PD]] or even [[WS:CV]] are not scan-backed at all, which already proves it.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 16:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::As has been noted above, the first version is scan-backed. There is no &quot;non-scan-backed&quot; version. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:36, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: &quot;Scan-backed&quot; more often than not is used to mean PRP; as opposed image on the talk / url. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Lady Susan]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted and recreated as dab; unsourced}}
Hello. So we actually have two scan-backed transcriptions of Jane Austen's minor work &quot;Lady Susan&quot;. So I request that the 42 chapters of this unsourced version be deleted, so we can convert [[Lady Susan]] into a versions page which will look something like this:

* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}

Note there are some Libravox links in this unsourced version (divided into 6 parts I think). I don't know if anyone wants to keep those or not. [[User:Pasicles|Pasicles]] ([[User talk:Pasicles|talk]]) 21:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:The LibriVox recordings are based on the [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/946 PG] text, so the edition is unknown and may or may not be the unsourced text. I don't see a strong argument for retaining the recordings, other than as an item on a DAB page. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with the proposal - {{vd}} for the chapters and turn the main page into a versions page -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|— [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:12, 14 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[:Index:Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1930 Books For the Year 1930 New Series Vol 27 Part 1 (IA catalogofcopyri271libr).pdf]] ==

Dire Scan quality. No point in trying to work from this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Kama Sutra ==

I'm cleaning it up. There's the good, text-backed version [[Kama Sutra (Burton)|here]]. Then there's this partial parallel version without any source text.

* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory]]
* [[Kama Sutra/Introductory/Preface]]
# {{strikethrough|Kama Sutra/Part I}}
# [[Kama Sutra/Part II]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 1]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 2]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 3]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 4]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 5]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 6]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 7]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 8]]
## [[Kama Sutra/Part II/Chapter 9]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part III]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part IV]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part V]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VI]]
# [[Kama Sutra/Part VII]]
[[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 04:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Of secondary importance, there are sets of redirects ([[Special:PrefixIndex/Kama Sutra]] + [[Special:PrefixIndex/The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana]]) which I think should probably be cut. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 05:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Per [[WS:CSD#M2]], redirects to deleted or otherwise inexistant pages can be (and are often quickly) deleted. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Brief hagiography of the great Dzogchen yogi, His Holiness Kyabje Kangsar Rinpoche, the Wontrul Tenpai Wangchuk Palzangpo]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as copyvio.}}
This work was added with no source information. A quick internet search turned up no matches. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:50, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} After this deletion discussion was started, it was later revealed by [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] that this was intended to be a user translation from [https://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. Thus, I moved the work to the Translation namespace. I modified the header of this discussion to reflect this. This isn't a defense of the translation, but just noting I moved it to where it should be—so now, we're discussing the merits of a Translation, not an unknown original work. Pinging {{ping|Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Tsewang|འཕྲིན་ལས།}} as they were involved in the creation of this translation. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification. I followed perplexity.ai, which suggested me to use {{tl|translation header}} but it seems the page is still is nominated for deletion. Please guide. I must admit I'm new to this and I want to practice and perfect it this time, so that I can continue to contribute. Thanks. [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] ([[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|talk]]) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the deletion nomination should stay until the discussion here is ended. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::There is a copy at Tibetan Wikisource, but it is not backed by a scan, which is a requirement for hosting [[Wikisource:Translations]] created by a user. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::And it is not clear that the original is PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I have started a deletion discussion at Multilingual Wikisource, [https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%90%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%97%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%81%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BD%B2%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%86%E0%BD%BA%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%A4%E0%BE%B2%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%A6%E0%BE%9F%E0%BD%93%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%95%E0%BE%B1%E0%BD%B4%E0%BD%82%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%91%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%A3%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%96%E0%BD%9F%E0%BD%84%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%94%E0%BD%BC%E0%BD%A0%E0%BD%B2%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%A2%E0%BE%A3%E0%BD%98%E0%BC%8B%E0%BD%90%E0%BD%A2%E0%BC%8B here]. I see no reason (per what I've said there) to think that even the original ''Tibetan'' version this was translated from was an authentic work that we would want to host. In the absence of that evidence, my vote is to {{vd}} this translation until proven otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::In their talk page, Pecha-Tsewang wrote that the author of the original was born in 1938, and added &quot;Not sure about the exact year of publication, but probably in the recent years (2000s). Mostly, books authored by Tibetan Lamas are meant for public use, so there are no copyright issues.&quot; On the basis of the information that we have at the moment, I think that this fails Wikisource policy on more than one ground. {{vd}} -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ping|EncycloPetey|Beardo}} So, [[User:Pecha-Tsewang|Pecha-Tsewang]] has admitted on [[User talk:Pecha-Tsewang|their talk page]]: &quot;Dear WikiFriends, I now come to the understanding that '''the original Tibetan text is copyrighted and therefore couldn't provide a copyright tag neither for the original tibetan source, nor for the translated page. Therefore it should be deleted'''. It has been a good learning process, thank you all.&quot; (emphasis mine) While the creator of the page was under the username [[User:Pecha-Gade|Pecha-Gade]], I think they are the same person—and thus, I recommend '''speedying'''. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 15:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
{{section resolved|1=--[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)}}

== [[Template:Spaced chapter heading]] ==

Deprecated for more than two years (replaced by {{tl|ph}}); now unused. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

This index is now redundant to [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu]] which has single page scans. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:56, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jfjku7tgwvcw3srlysr1jo7toh8viek</sha1>
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{{c/s}}
{|
|-
|''a'' Let the angle EDG be made equal to A,||a 23. 1. 
|-
|and the fide DG ''b'' = DF ''c'' = AC; and let EG,|| b 1. 
|-
|and FG be joined. || c hyp. 
|-
|1. ''Caſe''. Iſ EG fall above EF ; becauſe AE ''d''= ||d hyp. 
|-
|DE, and AC''e'' = DG, and the angle A''e'' = EDG,|| e conjtr. 
|-
|''f'' therefore is BC = EG. But becauſe DF''e'' = DG,|| f 4. 1. 
|-
|''g,'' therefore is the angle DFG = DGF; ''h'' therefore|| g 5. 1. 
|-
|is the angle DFG = FFG, and by conſequence ||h 9. ax. 
|-
|the angle EFG''b'' = EGF, ''k'' wherefore EG(BC)|| k 19. 1. 
|-
|= EF. ||
|}
{|
|-
| width=&quot;80%&quot; || width=&quot;20&quot;
|and the fide DG b = DF c = AC; and let EG,
and FG be joined.
1. Caſe. Iſ EG fall above EF ; becauſe AE,''d'', =
DE, and ACe = DG, and the angle Ae = EDG
f therefore is BC = EG. But becauſe DFe = DG,
g, therefore is the angle DFG = DGF; h therefore
is the angle DFG = FFG, and by conſequence	
the angle EFGb = EGF, k wherefore EG(BC)	
= EF. || e conjitr. &lt;br&gt; f 4. 1. &lt;br&gt; g 5. 1. 
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[[da:Wikisource:Forfattere-S]]
[[id:Wikisource:Pengarang-S]]
[[pt:Autor:S]]
[[vi:Wikisource:Tác gia/S]]
[[zh:Wikisource:作者/S]]

=={{anchor|Sa|Sä}}Sa/Sä/Ša==

* [[Author:Adah Louise Sutton Saalfield|Saalfield, Adah Louise Sutton]] (1860–1935)
* [[Author:Rafael Sabatini|Sabatini, Rafael]] (1875–1950)
* [[Author:Karel Sabina|Sabina, Karel]] (1813–1877)
* [[Author:Edward Sabine|Sabine, Edward]] (1788–1883)
* [[Author:Lorenzo Sabine|Sabine, Lorenzo]] (1803–1877)
* [[Author:Jaime Sabines|Sabines, Jaime]] (1926–1999)
* [[Author:Leopold von Sacher-Masoch|Sacher-Masoch, Leopold von]] (1836–1895)
* [[Author:Henry Sacheverell|Sacheverell, Henry]] (1674–1724)
* [[Author:Edwin Otho Sachs|Sachs, Edwin Otho]] (1870–1919)
* [[Author:Frank Sachs|Sachs, Frank]] (1858–1923)
* [[Author:Julius von Sachs|Sachs, Julius von]] (1832–1897)
* [[Author:Charles Sackville|Sackville, 6th Earl of Dorset, Charles]] (1638–1706)
* [[Author:Thomas Sackville|Sackville, Thomas]] (1536–1608)
* [[Author:Victoria Mary Sackville-West|Sackville-West, The Hon Lady Nicolson, Victoria Mary]] (1892–1962)
* '''[[Author:Marquis de Sade|Sade, Marquis de]]''' (1740–1814)
* [[Author:Michael Ernest Sadler|Sadler, Sir Michael Ernest]] (1861–1943)
* [[Author:Michael Thomas Sadler|Sadler, Michael Thomas]] (1780–1835)
* [[Author:Pavel Jozef Šafárik|Šafárik, Pavel Jozef]] (1795–1861)
* [[Author:Sagami|Sagami]] (998–1061)
* [[Author:Carl Sagan|Sagan, Carl]] (1934–1996)
* [[Author:Dean Sage|Sage, Dean]] (1841–1902)
* [[Author:Sagoyewatha|Sagoyewatha]] (c. 1750 – 1830)
* [[Author:Meghnad Saha|Saha, Meghnad]] (1893–1956)
* [[Author:Saigyō|Saigyō]] (1118–1190)
* [[Author:Antoine Girard de Saint-Amant|Saint-Amant, Antoine Girard de]] (1594–1661)
* [[Author:Charles de Saint-Évremond|Saint-Évremond, Charles de]] (1610–1703)
* [[Author:Étienne Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire|Saint-Hilaire, Étienne Geoffery]] (1772–1844)
* [[Author:Augustin Saint-Hilaire|de Saint-Hilaire, Augustin François César Prouvençal]] (1779–1853)
* [[Author:Molyneux St John|Saint John, Molyneux]] (1838–1904)
* [[Author:Louis Antoine Léon de Saint-Just|Saint-Just, Louis Antoine de]] (1767–1794)
* [[Author:Louis St. Laurent|Saint-Laurent, Louis]] (1882–1973)
* [[Author:Anthyme Saint-Paul|Saint-Paul, Anthyme]] (1843–1911)
* [[Author:Louis de Rouvroy, duc de Saint-Simon|Saint-Simon, Louis de Rouvroy, duc de]] (1675–1755)
* [[Author:George Saintsbury|Saintsbury, George]] (1845–1933)
* [[Author:Saionji Kintsune|Saionji Kintsune]] (1171–1244)
* [[Author:Hiroshi Saito|Saito, Hiroshi]] (1886–1939)
* [[Author:Sakanoue no Korenori|Sakanoue no Korenori]] (9th/10th cent.)
* '''[[Author:Saki|Saki]]''' (1870–1916)
* [[Author:Jaroslav Egon Salaba-Vojan|Salaba-Vojan, Jaroslav Egon]] (1872–1944)
* [[Author:Paul Salama|Salama, Paul]] (20th century – )
* [[Author:František Xaver Šalda|Šalda, František Xaver]] (1867–1937)
* [[Author:Caleb Williams Saleeby|Saleeby, Caleb Williams]] (1878–1940)
* [[Author:Johann Gaudenz Gubert von Salis-Seewis|Salis-Seewis, Johann Gaudenz Gubert von]] (1762–1834)
* [[Author:James Henry Salisbury|Salisbury, James Henry]] (1823–1905)
* [[Author:Richard Salisbury|Salisbury, Richard Anthony]] (1761–1829)
* [[Author:Rollin Daniel Salisbury|Salisbury, Rollin Daniel]] (1858–1922)
* [[Author:Friedrich von Sallet|Sallet, Friedrich von]] (1812–1843)
* [[Author:Salman of Saudi Arabia|Salman of Saudi Arabia]] (b. 1935)
* [[Author:George Salmon|Salmon, George]] (1819–1904)
* [[Author:Stewart Dingwall Fordyce Salmond|Salmond, Stewart Dingwall Fordyce]] (1838–1905)
* [[Author:Hiski Salomaa|Salomaa, Hiski]] (1891–1947)
* [[Author:Ladislav Jan Šaloun|Šaloun, Ladislav Jan]] (1870–1946)
* [[Author:Henry Salt|Salt, Henry]] (1780–1827)
* [[Author:Henry Stephens Salt|Salt, Henry Shakespear Stephens]] (1851–1939)
* [[Author:John Henry Salter|Salter, John Henry]] (1862–1942)
* [[Author:Samuel James Augustus Salter|Salter, Samuel James Augustus]] (1825–1897)
* [[Author:William Mackintire Salter|Salter, William Mackintire]] (1853–1931)
* [[Author:Edgar Everston Saltus|Saltus, Adgar Everston]] (1858–1921)
* [[Author:Mikhail Evgrafovich Saltykov-Shchedrin|Saltykov-Shchedrin, Mikhail]] (1826–1889)
* [[Author:Rosendo Salvado|Salvado, Rosendo]] (1814–1900)
* [[Author:Carlo Salvioni|Salvioni, Carlo]] (1858–1920)
* [[Author:Zdeněk Salzmann|Salzmann, Zdeněk]] (1925–2021)
* [[Author:Alden Sampson|Sampson, Alden]] (1853–1925)
* [[Author:John Sampson|Sampson, John]] (1862–1931)
* [[Author:Ralph Allen Sampson|Sampson, Ralph Allen]] (1866–1939)
* [[Author:William Thomas Sampson|Sampson, William Thomas]] (1840–1902)
* [[Author:Baison Sanada|Sanada, Baison]] (unknown)
* [[Author:Gaspar de San Agustín|de San Agustín, Gaspar]] (1650-1724)
* [[Author:Franklin Benjamin Sanborn|Sanborn, Franklin Benjamin]] (1831–1917)
* [[Author:John Wentworth Sanborn|Sanborn, John Wentworth]] (1848–1922)
* [[Author:Katherine Abbott Sanborn|Sanborn, Kate]](1839–1917)
* [[Author:George Sand|Sand, George]] (1806–1874)
* [[Author:Louis Sand|Sand, Louis]] (''fl''. 1860s)
* [[Author:Mary Frances Sandars|Sandars, Mary Frances]] (1864–1934)
* [[Author:William Sanday|Sanday, William]] (1843–1920)
* '''[[Author:Carl Sandburg|Sandburg, Carl]]''' (1878–1967)
* [[Author:Bernie Sanders|Sanders, Bernard]] (1941–)
* [[Author:Francis Sanders|Sanders, Francis]] (1846–1912)
* [[Author:Lloyd Charles Sanders|Sanders, Lloyd Charles]] (1857–1927)
* [[Author:William John Sanderson|Sanderson, William John]] (1883–1941)
* [[Author:Robert Charles Sands|Sands, Robert Charles]] (1799–1832)
* [[Author:John Edwin Sandys|Sandys, John Edwin]] (1844–1922)
* [[Author:William B. Sandys|Sandys, William B.]] (1792–1874)
* [[Author:Edward Terry Sanford|Sanford, Edward Terry]] (1865–1930)
* [[Author:Fernando Sanford|Sanford, Fernando]] (1856–1948)
* [[Author:William Eli Sanford|Sanford, William Eli]] (1838–1899)
* [[Author:Eugen Sänger|Sänger, Eugen]] (1905–1964)
* [[Author:Larry Sanger|Sanger, Larry]] (b. 1968)
* [[Author:Gianfranco Sanguinetti|Sanguinetti, Gianfranco]] (–)
* [[Author:Ahmad Sanjar|Sanjar, Ahmad]] (11th century – 1157)
* [[Author:José Ignacio de Sanjinés|Sanjinés, José Ignacio de]] (1786–1864)
* [[Author:Sanjō|Sanjō]] (976–1017)
* [[Author:Charles-Henri Sanson|Sanson, Charles-Henri]] (1739–1806)
* [[Author:Francesco Sansovino|Sansovino, Francesco]] (1521–1586/1583)
* [[Author:George Santayana|Santayana, George]] (1863–1952)
* [[Author:Helen Hooven Santmyer|Santmyer,Helen Hooven]] (1895–1986)
* [[Author:Ildefonso Santos|Santos, Idelfonso]] (1896–1984)
* [[Author:Edward Sapir|Sapir, Edward]] (1884–1939)
* [[Author:Antoine de Saporta|de Saporta, Antoine]] (1855–1914)
* [[Author:Gaston de Saporta|de Saporta, Gaston]] (1823–1895)
* [[Author:Luang Saranuprapan|Saranuprapan, Luang]] (1896–1954)
* [[Author:Maciej Kazimierz Sarbiewski|Sarbiewski, Maciej Kazimierz]] (1595–1640)
* [[Author:Arthur John Sargent|Sargent, Arthur John]] (1871–1947)
* [[Author:Epes Sargent|Sargent, Epes]] (1813–1880)
* [[Author:Frederick Le Roy Sargent|Sargent, Frederick Le Roy]] (1863–1928)
* [[Author:Samuel M. Sargent|Sargent, Jr., Samuel M.]] (c. 1928)
* [[Author:Ken Saro-Wiwa|Saro-Wiwa, Ken]] (1941–1995)
* [[Author:Siegfried Sassoon|Sassoon, Siegfried]] (1886–1967)
* [[Author:Jorge Sastre Martínez|Sastre Marínez, Jorge]] (20th century – )
* [[Author:Erik Satie|Satie, Erik]] (1866–1925)
* [[Author:Henry Satoh|Satoh, Henry]] (1857–1934)
* [[Author:Abhay R. Satoskar|Satoskar, Abhay R.]]
* [[Author:Ernest Mason Satow|Satow, Ernest Mason]] (1843–1929)
* [[Author:Joseph Satran|Satran, Joseph]] (1851–1916)
* [[Author:George Saunders|Saunders, George]] (1859–1922)
* [[Author:Prince Saunders|Saunders, Prince]] (1775–1839)
* [[Author:Thomas Bailey Saunders|Saunders, Thomas Bailey]] (1860–1928)
* [[Author:Constance Albuera Saunderson|Saunderson, Constance Albuera]] (1833–1915)
* [[Author:Jacques Saurin|Saurin, Jacques]] (1677–1730)
* [[Author:Horace-Bénédict de Saussure|de Saussure, Horace-Bénédict]] (1740–1799)
* [[Author:René de Saussure|Saussure, René de]] (1868–1943)
* [[Author:George Michael Julius Louis Sauvage|Sauvage, George Michael Julius Louis]] (1873–1951)
* [[Author:Henri Émile Sauvage|Sauvage, Henri Émile]] (1842–1917)
* [[Author:Ernest Albert Savage|Savage, Ernest Albert]] (1877–1966)
* [[Author:Félix Savart|Savart, Felix]] (1791–1841)
* [[Author:Friedrich Carl von Savigny|Savigny, Friedrich Carl von]] (1779–1861)
* [[Author:Girolamo Maria Francesco Matteo Savonarola|Savonarola, Girolamo]] (1452–1498)
* [[Author:Caroline Mehitable Sawyer|Sawyer, Caroline Mehitable]] (1812–1894)
* [[Author:Winona Branch Sawyer|Sawyer, Winona Branch]] (1847–1938)
* [[Author:John Godfrey Saxe|Saxe, John Godfrey]] (1816–1887)
* [[Author:Archibald Henry Sayce|Sayce, Archibald]]
* [[Author:Charles Edward Sayle|Sayle, Charles Edward]] (1864–1924)

==Sc==
* [[Author:Archibald Henderson Scales|Scales, Archibald Henderson]] (1868–1952)
* [[Author:Antonin Scalia|Scalia, Antonin]] (1936–2016)
* [[Author:Domenico Scarlatti|Scarlatti, Domenico]] (1685–1757)
* [[Author:Giovanni Andrea Scartazzini|Scartazzini, Giovanni Andrea]] (1837–1901)
* [[Author:John Scarth|Scarth, John]] (1826–1909)
* [[Author:Thomas Scattergood|Scattergood, Thomas]] (1826–1900)
* [[Author:Nathan Christ Schaeffer|Schaeffer, Nathan Christ]] (1849–1919)
* [[Author:Pierre Schaeffer|Schaeffer, Pierre]] (1910–1995)
* [[Author:Philip Schaff|Schaff, Philip]] (1819–1893)
* [[Author:Jakob Schaffner|Schaffner, Jakob]] (1875–1944)
* [[Author:Robert Haven Schauffler|Schauffler, Robert Haven]] (1879–1964)
* [[Author:Reinhard Scheer|Scheer, Reinhard]] (1863–1928)
* [[Author:Artuš Scheiner|Scheiner, Artuš]] (1863–1938)
* [[Author:Josef Eugen Scheiner|Scheiner, Josef Eugen]] (1861–1932)
* [[Author:Heinrich Schellen|Schellen, Heinrich]] (1818–1884)
* [[Author:Friedrich Wilhelm Joseph von Schelling|Schelling, Friedrich Wilhelm Joseph von]] (1775–1854)
* [[Author:Henry Scherren|Scherren, Henry]] (1842–1911)
* [[Author:Johann Jakob Scheuchzer|Scheuchzer, Johann Jakob]] (1672–1733)
* [[Author:Ernesto Schiaparelli|Schiaparelli, Ernesto]] (1856–1928)
* [[Author:Luigi Schiavonetti|Schiavonetti, Luigi]] (1765–1810)
* [[Author:Philip Schidrowitz|Schidrowitz, Philip]] (1872–1960)
* [[Author:Theodor Schiemann|Schiemann, Theodor]] (1847–1921)
* [[Author:Wolf von Schierbrand|Schierbrand, Wolf von]] (1851–1920)
* [[Author:Ferdinand Canning Scott Schiller|Schiller, F. C. S.]] (1864–1937)
* '''[[Author:Friedrich Schiller|Schiller, Friedrich von]]''' (1759–1805)
* [[Author:Christian Schkuhr|Schkuhr, Christian]] (1741–1811)
* [[Author:Friedrich Daniel Ernst Schleiermacher|Schleiermacher, Friedrich Daniel Ernst]] (1768–1834)
* [[Author:Kathleen Schlesinger|Schlesinger, Kathleen]] (1862–1953)
* [[Author:Winfield Scott Schley|Schley, Winfield Scott]] (1839–1911)
* [[Author:Wilhelm Schlich|Schlich, Wilhelm]] (1840–1925)
* [[Author:Heinrich Schliemann|Schliemann, Johann Ludwig Heinrich Julius]] (1822–1890)
* [[Author:David Frederick Schloss|Schloss, David Frederick]] (1850–1912)
* [[Author:Eduard Oscar Schmidt|Schmidt, Eduard Oscar]] (1823–1886)
* [[Author:Friedrich Schmidt|Schmidt, Friedrich]] (1832–1908)
* [[Author:Nathaniel Schmidt|Schmidt, Nathaniel]] (1862–1939)
* [[Author:Paul Wilhelm Schmiedel|Schmiedel, Paul Wilhelm]] (1851–1935)
* [[Author:Georg Adam Joseph Schmitt|Schmitt, Joseph]] (1734–1791)
* [[Author:Leonhard Schmitz|Schmitz, Leonhard]] (1807–1890)
* [[Author:B. Schmolke|Schmolke, B.]] (1731–?)
* [[Author:Gustav Friedrich von Schmoller|Schmoller, Gustave Friedrich von]] (1838–1917)
* [[Author:Aime Schneider|Schneider, Aime]] (1870–1879)
* [[Author:Elias Schneider|Schneider, Elias]] (1820–1883)
* [[Author:Ferdinand Alexander August Schnezler|Schnezler, Ferdinand Alexander August]] (1809–1853)
* [[Author:Arnold Schoenberg|Schoenberg, Arnold]] (1874–1951)
* [[Author:Otto Schoetensack|Schoetensack, Otto]] (1850–1912)
* [[Author:Evagrius Scholasticus|Scholasticus, Evagrius]] (536/537–after 594)
* [[Author:Clement Cotterill Scholefield|Scholefield, Clement Cotterill]] (1839–1904)
* [[Author:Percy Alfred Scholes|Scholes, Percy Alfred]] (1877–1958)
* [[Author:Wilhelm von Scholz|Scholz, Wilhelm von]] (1874–1969)
* [[Author:Arturo Alfonso Schomburg|Schomburg, Arturo Alfonso]] (1874–1938)
* [[Author:Selmar Schonland|Schonland, Selmar]] (1860–1940)
* [[Author:Arthur Schopenhauer|Schopenhauer, Arthur]] (1788–1860)
* [[Author:Aloys Schreiber|Schreiber, Aloys]] (1761–1841) 
* [[Author:August Schreiber|Schreiber, August]] (1839–1903)
* [[Author:John Frederick Schroeder|Schroeder, John Frederick]] (1800–1857)
* [[Author:Seaton Schroeder|Schroeder, Seaton]] (1849–1922)
* [[Author:Helen Schucman|Schucman, Helen]] (1909–1981)
* [[Author:Sergei Ivanovich Schulenburg|Schulenburg, Sergei Ivanovich]] (1875–1937)
* [[Author:Rudolph Schulthess|Schulthess, Rudolph]] (1802–1832)
* [[Author:Hans Schultz|Schultz, Hans]] (1630–1680)
* [[Author:Ferdinand Schulz|Schulz, Ferdinand]] (1835–1905)
* [[Author:Joachim Christoph Friedrich Schulz|Schulz, Joachim Christoph Friedrich]] (1762–1798)
* [[Author:Ernst Conrad Friedrich Schulze|Schulze, Ernst Conrad Friedrich]] (1789–1817)
* [[Author:Friedrich August Schulze|Schulze, Friedrich August]] (1770–1849)
* [[Author:Hermann A. Schumacher|Schumacher, Hermann A.]] (1868–1952)
* [[Author:Paul Schumacher|Schumacher, Paul]] (1848–1891)
* [[Author:Emil Schürer|Schürer, Emil]] (1844–1910)
* [[Author:Carl Schurz|Schurz, Carl]] (1829–1906)
* [[Author:Franz Arthur Friedrich Schuster|Schuster, Franz Arthur Friedrich]] (1851–1934)
* [[Author:Gudmund Schütte|Schütte, Gudmund]] (1872-1958)
* [[Author:Heinrich Schütz|Schütz, Heinrich]] (1585–1672)
* [[Author:Paul Schützenberger|Schützenberger, Paul]] (1829–1897)
* [[Author:George L. Schuyler|Schuyler, George]] (1811–1890)
* [[Author:Montgomery Schuyler (1877-1955)|Schuyler, Montgomery, Jr.]] (1877–1955)
* [[Author:Gustav Benjamin Schwab|Schwab, Gustav Benjamin]] (1792–1850)
* [[Author:John Christopher Schwab|Schwab, John Christopher]] (1865–1915)
* [[Author:Hanuš Schwaiger|Schwaiger, Hanuš]] (1854–1912)
* [[Author:Friedrich Schwally|Schwally, Friedrich]] (1863–1919)
* [[Author:Jean Schwartz|Schwartz, Jean]] (1878–1956)
* [[Author:Arnold A. Schwarzenegger|Schwarzenegger, Arnold A.]] (b. 1947)
* [[Author:Lin Schwarzkopf|Schwarzkopf, Lin]] (b. 20th century)
* [[Author:Lewis David von Schweinitz|Schweinitz, Lewis David von]] (1780–1834)
* [[Author:Albert Schweitzer|Schweitzer, Albert]] (1875–1965)
* [[Author:Philip Lutley Sclater|Sclater, Philip Lutley]] (1829–1913)
* [[Author:William Lutley Sclater|Sclater, William Lutley]] (1863–1944)
* [[Author:John Scoble|Scoble, John]] (1799–1877)
* [[Author:Richard Henry Scofield|Scofield, Richard Henry]] (1898–1970)
* [[Author:Henry Scogan|Scogan, Henry]] (1361–1407)
* [[Author:Gilbert Campbell Scoggin|Scoggin, Gilbert Campbell]] (d. 1945)
* [[Author:Arthur Pearson Scott|Scott, Arthur P.]] (1884–1961)
* [[Author:Austin Scott|Scott, Austin]] (1848–1922)
* [[Author:Charles Anderson Scott|Scott, Charles Anderson]] (1859–1941)
* [[Author:Dukinfield Henry Scott|Scott, Dukinfield Henry]] (1854–1934)
* [[Author:Edith Margery Scott|Scott, Edith Margery]] (c. 1928)
* [[Author:Edward John Long Scott|Scott, Edward John Long]] (1840–1918)
* [[Author:Ernest Scott|Scott, Sir Ernest]] (1868–1939)
* [[Author:Harold Spencer Scott|Scott, Harold Spencer]] (?–?)
* [[Author:Hugh Stowell Scott|Scott, Hugh Stowell]] (1862–1903)
* [[Author:James Scott|Scott, James]] (1885–1938)
* [[Author:James George Scott|Scott, James George]] (1851–1935)
* [[Author:James Moffat Scott|Scott, James Moffat]] (1848–1910)
* [[Author:John Scott (1841-1904)|Scott, John]] (1841–1904)
* [[Author:John Scott (Doctor)|Scott, John]]
* [[Author:Leonard Scott|Scott, Leonard]] (1810–1895)
* [[Author:Leslie Frederic Scott|Scott, Sir Leslie Frederic]] (1859–1950)
* [[Author:Reginald Thomas Maitland Scott|Scott, Reginald Thomas Maitland]] (1882–1966)
* [[Author:Robert Scott (botanist)|Scott, Robert]] (1757–1808)
* [[Author:Robert Scott (1811-1887)|Scott, Robert]] (1811–1887)
* '''[[Author:Walter Scott|Scott, Walter]]''' (1771–1832)
* [[Author:William Bell Scott|Scott, William Bell]] (1811–1890)
* [[Author:William Berryman Scott|Scott, William Berryman]] (1858–1947)
* [[Author:William Robert Scott|Scott, William Robert]] (1868–1940)
* [[Author:Clarissa Scott Delany|Scott Delany, Clarissa]] (1901–1927)
* [[Author:William Scott Ferguson|Scott Ferguson, William]] (1875–1954)
* [[Author:Charles Kenneth Scott-Moncrieff|Scott-Moncrieff, Charles Kenneth]] (1889–1930)
* [[Author:Brent Scowcroft|Scowcroft, Brent]] (1925—)
* [[Author:Augustin Eugène Scribe|Scribe, Augustin Eugène]] (1791–1861)
* [[Author:Gilbert Hilton Scribner|Scribner, Gilbert Hilton]] (1831–1910)
* [[Author:Joseph Scriven|Scriven, Joseph]] (1819–1886)
* [[Author:Christian Scriver|Scriver, Christian]] (1629–1693)
* [[Author:William Oscar Scroggs|Scroggs, William Oscar]] (1879–1957)
* [[Author:George Julius Poulett Scrope|Scrope, George Julius Poulett]] (1797–1876)
* [[Author:Horace Elisha Scudder|Scudder, Horace Elisha]] (1838–1902)

=={{anchor|Se|Sé}}Se/Sé/Še==
* [[Author:Samuel Seabury|Seabury, Samuel]] (1729–1796)
* [[Author:Owen Seaman|Seaman, Sir Owen]] (1861–1936)
* [[Author:Arthur Searle|Searle, Arthur]] (1837–1920)
* [[Author:George Frederick Charles Searle|Searle, George Frederick Charles]] (1864–1954)
* [[Author:Blanche Burdin Sears|Sears, Blanche Burdin]] (1875–)
* [[Author:Edmund Hamilton Sears|Sears, Edmund Hamilton]] (1810–1876)
* [[Author:Edward S. Sears|Sears, Edward S.]] (fl. 1927)
* [[Author:Thomas Seccombe (1866-1923)|Seccombe, Thomas]] (1866–1923)
* [[Author:Thomas Secker|Secker, Thomas]] (1693–1768)
* [[Author:H. Winfred Secor|Secor, H. Winfred]] (c. 1927)
* [[Author:Edmund Sedding|Sedding, Edmund]] (1836–1868)
* [[Author:John Dando Sedding|Sedding, J. D.]] (1838–1891)
* [[Author:James Seddon|Seddon, James]] (1815–1880)
* [[Author:Walter John Sedgefield|Sedgefield, Walter John]] (1866–1945)
* [[Author:Adam Sedgwick (1785-1873)|Sedgwick, Adam (1785–1873)]]
* [[Author:Adam Sedgwick (1854-1913)|Sedgwick, Adam (1854–1913)]]
* [[Author:Anne Douglas Sedgwick|Sedgwick, Anne Douglas]] (1873–1935)
* [[Author:Catharine Maria Sedgwick|Sedgwick, Catharine Maria]] (1789–1867)
* [[Author:Henry Dwight Sedgwick III|Sedgwick, Henry D.]] (1861–1957)
* [[Author:William Fellows Sedgwick|Sedgwick, William Fellows]] (1872–1949)
* [[Author:William Thompson Sedgwick|Sedgwick, William Thompson]] (1855–1921)
* [[Author:Henri Sée|Sée, Henri]] (1864–1936)
* [[Author:Frank Seebacher|Seebacher, Frank]]
* [[Author:Thomas Johann Seebeck|Seebeck, Thomas Johann]] (1770–1831)
* [[Author:Frederic Seebohm|Seebohm, Frederic]] (1833–1912)
* [[Author:Alan Seeger|Seeger, Alan]] (1888–1916)
* [[Author:John Robert Seeley|Seeley, Sir John Robert]] (1834–1895)
* [[Author:Édouard Séguin|Séguin, Édouard]] (1812–1880)
* [[Author:Comtesse de Ségur|Ségur, Sophie Rostopchine, comtesse de]] (1799–1874)
* [[Author:Sei Shōnagon|Sei Shōnagon]] (966–1025)
* [[Author:Johann Gabriel Seidl|Seidl, Johann Gabriel]] (1804–1875)
* [[Author:Jaroslav Seifert|'''Seifert, Jaroslav''']] (1901–1986)
* [[Author:Sejong|Sejong]] (1397–1450)
* [[Author:František Sekanina|Sekanina, František]] (1875–1958)
* [[Author:Haile Selassie|'''Selassie, Haile''']] (1892–1975)
* [[Author:Richard Ely Selden|Selden, Richard Ely]] (1797–1868)
* [[Author:Jeff Seldin|Seldin, Jeff]]
* [[Author:Karel Šelepa|Šelepa, Karel]] (1885–1969)
* [[Author:Hugh de Sélincourt|Sélincourt, Hugh de]] (1878–1951)
* [[Author:William Young Sellar|Sellar, William Young]] (1825–1890)
* [[Author:Roy Wood Sellars|Sellars, Roy Wood]] (1880–1973)
* [[Author:George Escol Sellers|Sellers, George Escol]] (1808–1899)
* [[Author:Cato Sells|Sells, Cato]] (1859–1948)
* [[Author:Julius Hawley Sellye|Sellye, Julius Hawley]] (1824–1895)
* [[Author:Edmund Selous|Selous, Edmund]] (1857–1934)
* [[Author:Frederick Courteney Selous|Selous, Frederick Courteney]] (1851–1917)
* [[Author:Charles Alden Seltzer|Seltzer, Charles Alden]] (1875-1942)
* [[Author:Thomas Seltzer|Seltzer, Thomas]] (1875–1943)
* [[Author:Robert Sempill|Sempill, Robert]] (1590s–1660s)
* [[Author:Keshub Chunder Sen|Sen, Keshub Chunder]] (1838–1884)
* [[Author:Ramdas Sen|Sen, Ramdas]] (1845–1887)
* [[Author:Étienne-Jean-Baptiste-Pierre-Ignace Pivert de Sénancour|de Sénancour, Étienne-Jean-Baptiste-Pierre-Ignace Pivert]] (1770–1846)
* [[Author:Flavius Magnus Aurelius Cassiodorus Senator|Flavius Magnus Aurelius Cassiodorus Senator]] (c. 485–c. 585)
* '''[[Author:Seneca|Seneca, L. Annaeus]]''' (4 BCE–65 CE)
* [[Author:Nassau William Senior|Senior, Nassau William]] (1790–1864)
* [[Author:William Senior|Senior, William]] (1838–1920)
* [[Author:Charles Herman Senn|Senn, Charles Herman]] (1862–1934)
* [[Author:Seong Hon|Seong Hon]] (1535–1598)
* [[Author:John Iliytch Sergieff|Sergieff, John Iliytch]] (1829–1908)
* [[Author:Serenus of Antinouplis|Serenus of Antinouplis]] (c. 300–c. 360)
* [[Author:Lewis Sergeant|Sergeant, Lewis]] (1841–1902)
* [[Author:Robert W. Service|Service, Robert W.]] (1874–1958)
* [[Author:Garrett Putnam Serviss|Serviss, Garrett Putnam]] (1851–1929)
* [[Author:Jaroslav Šetelík|Šetelík, Jaroslav]] (1881–1955)
* [[Author:Vikram Seth|Seth, Vikram]] (1952–present)
* [[Author:David Seth-Smith|Seth-Smith, David]] (1875–1963)
* [[Author:Ernest Thompson Seton|Seton, Ernest Thompson]] (1860–1946)
* [[Author:Henry Seton-Karr|Seton-Karr, Henry]] (1853–1914)
* [[Author:Robert William Seton-Watson|Seton-Watson, Robert William]] (1879–1951)
* [[Author:Theodor Seuss Geisel|Seuss Geisel, Dr. Theodor]] (1904–1991)
* [[Author:Guillaume Severin|Severin, Guillaume]] (1862–1938)
* [[Author:Madame de Sévigné|Marquise de Sévigné, Marie de Rabutin-Chantal]] (1626–1696)
* [[Author:Samuel Sewall|Sewall, Samuel]] (1652–1730)
* [[Author:Anna Seward|Seward, Anna]] (1747–1809)
* [[Author:Albert Charles Seward|Seward, Albert Charles]] (1863–1941)
* [[Author:Mary Holden Coggeshall Seward|Seward, Mary Coggeshall]] (1839–1919)
* [[Author:William Henry Seward|Seward, William Henry]] (1801–1872)
* [[Author:Anna Sewell|Sewell, Anna]] (1820–1878)
* [[Author:Sextus Empiricus|Sextus Empiricus]] (c. 200)
* [[Author:Emily Seymour|Seymour, Emily]]
* [[Author:Ernest Richard Seymour|Seymour, Ernest Richard]] (1823–1864)
* [[Author:Horatio Seymour|Seymour, Horatio]] (1810–1886)
* [[Author:Thomas Day Seymour|Seymour, Thomas Day]] (1848–1907)
* [[Author:Webb John Seymour|Seymour, Webb John]] (1777–1819)

==Sh==
* [[Author:ʿAbd al-Salam Shabini|Shabini, ʿAbd al-Salam]] (fl. 1820)
* [[Author:John William Shackford|Shackford, John William]] (1839–1905)
* [[Author:Ernest Henry Shackleton|Shackleton, Sir Ernest Henry]] (1874–1922)
* [[Author:Bahā' ad-Dīn Yusuf ibn Rafi ibn Shaddād|ibn Shaddād, Bahā' ad-Dīn Yusuf ibn Rafi]] (1145–1234)
* [[Author:Arthur Shadwell|Shadwell, Arthur]] (1854–1936)
* [[Author:Lionel Lancelot Shadwell|Shadwell, Lionel Lancelot]] (1845–1925)
* [[Author:Thomas Joseph Shahan|Shahan, Thomas Joseph]] (1857–1932)
* [[Author:Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai|Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai]] (1689–1752)
* [[Author:Mīrzā Muhammad Tāraghay bin Shāhrukh|bin Shāhrukh, Mīrzā Muhammad Tāraghay]] (1394–1449)
* [[Author:John Shakespear|Shakespear, John]] (1861–1942)
* '''[[Author:William Shakespeare (1564-1616)|Shakespeare, William]]''' (1564–1616)
* [[Author:William G. Shakespeare|Shakespeare, William G.]]
* [[Author:Charles Dawson Shanly|Shanly, Charles Dawson]] (1811–1875)
* [[Author:Mohammed Habib Shakir|Shakir, Mohammed Habib]] (1866–1939)
* [[Author:Nathaniel Shaler|Shaler, Nathaniel Southgate]] (1841–1906)
* [[Author:R. Shamasastry|Rudrapatnam Shamasastry]] (1868–1944)
* [[Author:Sepideh Shamlou|Shamlou, Sepideh]] (1968–present)
* [[Author:Adi Shankara|Shankara, Adi]] (8th c. CE)
* [[Author:Lewis Piaget Shanks|Shanks, Lewis Piaget]] (1878–1935)
* [[Author:Edward Shann|Shann, Edward]] (1884–1935)
* [[Author:Ariel Sharon|Sharon, Ariel]] (1928–2014)
* [[Author:Archibald Sharp|Sharp, Archibald]] (1862–1934)
* [[Author:Cecil James Sharp|Sharp, Cecil James]] (1859–1924)
* [[Author:David Sharp|Sharp, David]] (1840–1922)
* [[Author:Martha Sharp|Sharp, Martha]]
* [[Author:Robert Farquharson Sharp|Sharp, Robert Farquharson]] (1864–1945)
* [[Author:William Sharp|Sharp, William]] (1855–1905)
* [[Author:John Sharpe|Sharpe, John]]
* [[Author:Richard Bowdler Sharpe|Sharpe, Richard Bowdler]] (1847–1909)
* [[Author:William Sharpey|Sharpey, William]] (1802–1880)
* [[Author:Avner Shats|Shats, Avner]] (1959–)
* [[Author:Bernard Shaw|Shaw, Bernard]] (b. 1940)
* '''[[Author:George Bernard Shaw|Shaw, George Bernard]]''' (1856–1950)
* [[Author:George Kearsley Shaw|Shaw, George Kearsley]] (1779–1833)
* [[Author:Henry Wheeler Shaw|Shaw, Henry Wheeler]] (1818–1885)
* [[Author:Thomas Shaw (1850–1937)|Shaw, Thomas]] (1843–1918)
* [[Author:Thomas Shaw (1850–1937)|Shaw, Thomas]] (1850–1937)
* [[Author:Wilfred Byron Shaw|Shaw, Wilfred Byron]] (1881–1959)
* [[Author:William Shaw|Shaw, William]] (1749–1831)
* [[Author:William Arthur Shaw|Shaw, William Arthur]] (1865–1943)
* [[Author:William Napier Shaw|Shaw, William Napier]] (1854–1945)
* [[Author:Patrick Shaw-Stewart|Shaw-Stewart, Patrick]] (d. 1917)
* [[Author:Joseph Shaylor|Shaylor, Joseph]] (1844–1923)
* [[Author:Zalman Shazar|Shazar, Zalman]] (1889–1974)
* [[Author:Christopher M. Shea|Shea, Christopher M.]]
* [[Author:John Gilmary Shea|Shea, John Gilmary]] (1824–1892)
* [[Author:Robert Joseph Shea|Shea, Robert]] (1933-1994)
* [[Author:James Washington Sheahan|Sheahan, James Washington]] (1824–1883)
* [[Author:Thomas Gaskell Shearman|Shearman, Thomas Gaskell]] (1834–1900)
* [[Author:William Greenough Thayer Shedd|Shedd, William Greenough Thayer]] (1820–1894)
* [[Author:Daniel Desmond Sheehan|Sheehan, Daniel Desmond]] (1873–1948)
* [[Author:Joseph Shehyn|Shehyn, Joseph]] (1829–1918)
* [[Author:Chander Shekhar|Shekhar, Chander]] (?–?)
* [[Author:Addison Erwin Sheldon|Sheldon, Addison Erwin]] (1861–1943)
* [[Author:Charles Monroe Sheldon|Sheldon, Charles Monroe]] (1857–1946)
* [[Author:Samuel Shellabarger|Shellabarger, Samuel]] (1888–1954)
* [[Author:George Ernest Shelley|Shelley, George Ernest]] (1840–1910)
* '''[[Author:Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley|Shelley ''née'' Godwin, Mary Wollstonecraft]]''' (1797–1851)
* '''[[Author:Percy Bysshe Shelley|Shelley, Percy Bysshe]]''' (1792–1822)
* [[Author:Frederick William Shelton|Shelton Frederick William]] (1814–1881)
* [[Author:Thomas Strahan Shenston|Shenston, Thomas Strahan]] (1822-1895)
* [[Author:William Shenstone|Shenstone, William]] (1714–1763)
* [[Author:Edward Morse Shepard|Shepard, Edward Morse]] (1850–1911)
* [[Author:Elliott Fitch Shepard|Shepard, Elliott Fitch]] (1833–1893)
* [[Author:Francis John Shepherd|Shepherd, Francis John]] (1851–1929)
* [[Author:Richard Herne Shepherd|Shepherd, Richard Herne]] (1842–1895)
* [[Author:Edgar Sheppard|Sheppard, Edgar]] (1819–1897)
* [[Author:Henry Fleetwood Sheppard|Sheppard, Henry Fleetwood]] (1824–1901)
* [[Author:Thomas Sheppard (1876-1945)|Sheppard, Thomas]] (1876–1945)
* [[Author:William Fleetwood Sheppard|Sheppard, William Fleetwood]] (1863–1936)
* [[Author:John Walter Sherer|Sherer, John Walter]] (1823–1911)
* [[Author:Louisa Henrietta Sheridan|Sheridan, Louisa Henrietta]] (1810–1842)
* '''[[Author:Richard Brinsley Sheridan|Sheridan, Richard Brinsley]]''' (1751–1816)
* [[Author:Thomas Sheridan (1687-1738)|Sheridan, Thomas (divine)]] (1687–1738)
* [[Author:Thomas Sheridan (1719-1788)|Sheridan, Thomas]] (1719–1788)
* [[Author:Ronald M. Sherin|Sherin, Ronald M.]] (fl. 1927)
* [[Author:Hugh Sheringham|Sheringham, Hugh]] (1876–1930)
* [[Author:Thomas Sherlock|Sherlock, Thomas]] (1678–1761)
* [[Author:Charles Colebrook Sherman|Sherman, Charles Colebrook]] (1860–1927)
* [[Author:John Sherman|Sherman, John]] (1823–1900)
* [[Author:Lucius Adelno Sherman|Sherman, Lucius Adelno]] (1847–1933)
* [[Author:Stuart P. Sherman|Sherman, Stuart P.]] (1881–1926)
* [[Author:Johnson Sherrick|Sherrick, Johnson]] (1841–1914)
* [[Author:Charles Scott Sherrington|Sherrington, Charles Scott]] (1857–1952)
* [[Author:John Filmore Sherry|John Filmore Sherry]] (1866–1894)
* [[Author:William Fiske Sherwin|Sherwin, William F.]] (1826–1888)
* [[Author:Rosina Emmet Sherwood|Sherwood, Rosina Emmet]] (1854–1948)
* [[Author:William Hittell Sherzer|Sherzer, William Hittell]] (1860–1932)
* [[Author:Matthew Phipps Shiel|Shiel, Matthew]] (1865–1947)
* [[Author:Shikishi|Shikishi, Princess]] (1146–1201)
* [[Author:Bohumil Shimek|Shimek, Bohumil]] (1861–1937)
* [[Author:Katsura Shimizu|Shimizu, Katsura]] (1898–1951)
* [[Author:Thomas Shimmin|Shimmin, Thomas]] (1800–1879)
* [[Author:Shin Chaeho|Shin, Chaeho]] (1880–1936)
* [[Author:Shin Suk-ju|Shin Suk-ju]] (1417–1475)
* [[Author:Yajiro Shinagawa|Shinagawa Yajiro]] (1843–1900)
* [[Author:Arthur Everett Shipley|Shipley, Arthur Everett]] (1861–1927)
* [[Author:Andrew Jackson Shipman|Shipman, Andrew Jackson]] (1857–1915)
* [[Author:Anna Shipton|Shipton, Anna]] (1815–1901)
* [[Author:Mother Shipton|Shipton, Mother]] (1488–1651)
* [[Author:George Shiras, Jr.|Shiras, Jr., George]] (1832–1924)
* [[Author:James Shirley|Shirley, James]] (1596–1666)
* [[Author:Frederic Shoberl|Shoberl, Frederic]] (1775–1853)
* [[Author:Paul Shorey|Shorey, Paul]] (1857–1934)
* [[Author:John Thomas Short|Short, John Thomas]] (1850–1883)
* [[Author:Clement King Shorter|Shorter, Clement King]] (1857–1926)
* [[Author:Dora Sigerson Shorter|Shorter, Dora Sigerson]] (1866–1918)
* [[Author:John Shower|Shower, John]] (1657–1715)
* [[Author:Joseph Henry Shorthouse|Shorthouse, Joseph Henry]] (1834–1903)
* [[Author:James Thomson Shotwell|Shotwell, James Thomson]] (1874–1965)
* [[Author:Grant Showerman|Showerman, Grant]] (1870–1935)
* [[Author:Prince Shōtoku|Shōtoku, Prince]] (572–622)
* [[Author:Evelyn Shirley Shuckburgh|Shuckburgh, Evelyn Shirley]] (1843–1906)
* [[Author:Robert Wilson Shufeldt|Shufeldt, Robert Wilson]] (1850–1934)
* [[Author:Ellis William Shuler|Shuler, Ellis William]] (1881–1955)
* [[Author:Shun'e|Shun'e]] (1113–1191)

=={{anchor|Si}}Si/Ši/Ší==
* [[Author:James Sibree|Sibree, James]] (1836–1929)
* [[Author:John Sibthorp|Sibthorp, John]] (1758–1796)
* [[Author:Elizabeth Sican|Sican, Elizabeth]] (fl. 18th century)
* [[Author:J. Sican|Sican, John]] (fl. 18th century)
* [[Author:William James Sidis|Sidis, William James]] (1898–1944)
* [[Author:Arthur Sidgwick|Sidgwick, Arthur]] (1840–1920)
* [[Author:Alfred Sidgwick|Sidgwick, Alfred]] (1850–1943)
* [[Author:Eleanor Mildred Sidgwick|Sidgwick, Eleanor Mildred]] (1845–1936)
* [[Author:Frank Sidgwick|Sidgwick, Frank]] (1879–1939)
* [[Author:Henry Sidgwick|Sidgwick, Henry]] (1838–1900)
* [[Author:Boris Sidis|Sidis, Boris]] (1867–1923)
* [[Author:Adelaide Augusta Willhelmina Sidney|Sidney, Adelaide Augusta Willhelmina]] (1826–1878/1904)
* [[Author:Philip Sidney (1554-1586)|Sidney, Sir Philip]] (1554–1586)
* [[Author:Willem Siebenhaar|Siebenhaar, Willem]] (1863–1936)
* [[Author:Eli Siegel|Siegel, Eli]] (1902–1978)
* [[Author:André Siegfried|Siegfried, Andre]] (1875–1959)
* [[Author:Carl William Siemens|Siemens, Carl William]] (1823–1883)
* [[Author:Eduard Sievers|Sievers, Eduard]] (1850–1932)
* [[Author:Lydia Sigourney|Sigourney, Lydia]] (1791–1865)
* [[Author:Christoph von Sigwart|Sigwart, Christoph von]] (1830–1904)
* [[Author:Edward Ernest Sikes|Sikes, Edward Ernest]] (1867–1940)
* [[Author:Ludwik Silberstein|Silbertstein, Ludwik]] (1872–1948)
* [[Author:Kenneth Charles Morton Sills|Sills, Kenneth Charles Morton]] (1879–1954)
* [[Author:Vladimír Silovský|Silovský, Vladimír]] (1891–1974)
* [[Author:João Manuel Pereira da Silva|Silva, João Manuel Pereira da]] (1817–1898)
* [[Author:José Asunción Silva|Silva, José Asunción]] (1865–1896)
* [[Author:Henry Silver|Silver, Henry]] (1828–1910)
* [[Author:Edward S. Silvera|Silvera, Edward S.]] (1906–1937)
* [[Author:Earl Reed Silvers|Silvers, Earl Reed]] (1891–1948)
* [[Author:Louis Silvers|Silvers, Louis]] (1889–1954)
* [[Author:Shel Silverstein|Silverstein, Shel]] (1930–1999)
* [[Author:Dave Sim|Sim, Dave]] (1956–)
* [[Author:James Sime|Sime, James]] (1843–1895)
* [[Author:William Stewart Simkins|Simkins, William Stewart]] (1842–1929)
* [[Author:Peter Lund Simmonds|Simmonds, Peter Lund]] (1814–1897)
* [[Author:Gene Simmons|Simmons, Gene]] (1929–)
* [[Author:William Gilmore Simms|Simms, William Gilmore]] (1806–1870)
* [[Author:Eugène Louis Simon|Simon, Eugène Louis]] (1848–1924)
* [[Author:Leon Simon|Simon, Leon]] (1881–1965)
* [[Author:Tavík František Šimon|Šimon, Tavík František]] (1877–1942)
* [[Author:Louis Simond|Simond, Louis]] (1767–1831)
* [[Author:Guy Simonds|Simonds, Guy]] (1903–1974)
* [[Author:Menno Simons|Simons, Menno]] (1496–1561)
* [[Author:William Simons|Simons, William]](c. 490–c. 560)
* [[Author:Joe Simmons|Simmons, Joe]] (c. 1928)
* [[Author:Simplicius of Cilicia|Simplicius of Cilicia]]
* [[Author:Walter Simson|Simson, Walter]] (fl. 1865)
* [[Author:Alexander Russell Simpson|Simpson, Alexander Russell]] (1835–1916)
* [[Author:Benjamin Roy Simpson|Simpson, Benjamin Roy]] (b. 1877)
* [[Author:Bertram Lenox Simpson|Simpson, Bertram Lenox]] (1877–1930)
* [[Author:Evelyn Blantyre Simpson|Simpson, Evelyn Blantyre]] (1856–1920)
* [[Author:James Gilliland Simpson|Simpson, James Gilliland]] (1865–1948)
* [[Author:James Young Simpson|Simpson, Sir James Young]] (1811–1870)
* [[Author:John Palgrave Simpson|Simpson, John Palgrave]] (1807–1887)
* [[Author:Matthew Simpson|Simpson, Matthew]] (1811–1884)
* [[Author:Percy Simpson|Simpson, Percy]] (1865–1962)
* [[Author:Thomas Simpson|Simpson, Thomas]] (1808–1840)
* [[Author:William Simpson|Simpson, William]] (1823–1899)
* [[Author:William Augustus Simpson|Simpson, William Augustus]] (1854–1930)
* [[Author:William Henry Randolph Simpson|Simpson, William Henry Randolph]] (1830–1910)
* [[Author:Charles N. Sims|Sims, Charles N.]] (1835–1908)
* [[Author:John Sims|Sims, John]] (1749–1831)
* [[Author:Robert Simson|Simson, Robert]] (1687–1768)
* [[Author:Angus Sinclair|Sinclair, Angus]] (1841–1919)
* '''[[Author:Upton Sinclair|Sinclair, Upton]]''' (1878–1968)
* [[Author:Frank Šindelář|Šindelář, Frank]] (1861–1929)
* [[Author:Joseph B. Sindelar|Sindelar, Joseph B.]] (1853–1931)
* [[Author:Otto Sinding|Sinding, Otto]] (1842–1909)
* [[Author:Margaret Singer|Singer, Margaret Thaler]] (1921–2003)
* [[Author:Bhagat Singh|Singh, Bhagat]] (1907–1931)
* [[Author:Nandini Singh|Singh, Nandini]] (?–?)
* [[Author:Robert Sinker (1869-1941)|Sinker, Robert]] (1869–1941)
* [[Author:Alfred Percy Sinnett|Sinnett, Alfred Percy]] (1840–1921)
* [[Author:Esther Singleton|Singleton, Esther]] (1865–1930)
* [[Author:Curt Siodmak|Siodmak, Curt]] (1902–2000)
* [[Author:Jan Šípek|Šípek, Jan]] (1886–1953)
* [[Author:Sirhan Sirhan|Sirhan, Sirhan]] (b. 1944)
* [[Author:Noble Sissle|Sissle, Noble]] (1889–1975)
*[[Author:Joseph Paul Sitek|Sitek, Joseph Paul]] (1907–2005)
* [[Author:Willem de Sitter|Sitter, Willem de]] (1872–1934)
* [[Author:Edith Sitwell|Sitwell, Edith]] (1887–1964)
* [[Author:George Reresby Sitwell|Sitwell, George Reresby]] (1860–1943)
* [[Author:Sixtus V|Sixtus V, Pope]] (1521–1590)

=={{anchor|Sk}}Sk/Šk==
* [[Author:Walter William Skeat|Skeat, Walter William]] (1835–1912)
* [[Author:John Skelton (1460-1529)|Skelton, John]] (1460–1529)
* [[Author:William Forbes Skene|Skene, William Forbes]] (1809–1892)
* [[Author:Richard Forster Sketchley|Sketchley, Richard Forster]] (1826–1911)
* [[Author:Joseph Skey|Skey, Joseph]] (1779–1833)
* [[Author:Simon Skidelsky|Skidelsky, Simon]] (?–?)
* [[Author:Aaron Nichols Skinner|Skinner, Aaron Nichols]] (1845–1918)
* [[Author:Carlton Skinner|Skinner, Carlton]] (1913–2004)
* [[Author:Charles Montgomery Skinner|Skinner, Charles Montgomery]] (1852–1907)
* [[Author:E. D. Skinner|Skinner, E. D.]] (fl. 1927)
* [[Author:Harry Hall Skinner|Skinner, Harry Hall]] (1858–?)
* [[Author:John Skinner|Skinner, John]] (1721–1807)
* [[Author:Adam Skirving|Skirving, Adam]] (1719–1803)
* [[Author:Britiffe Constable Skottowe|Skottowe, Britiffe Constable]] (1857–1925)
* [[Author:John Huntley Skrine|Skrine, John Huntley]] (1848–1923)
* [[Author:František Jan Škroup|Škroup, František Jan]] (1801–1862)

==Sl==
* [[Author:Daniel Slabey|Slabey, Daniel]] (1899–1971)
* [[Author:Adolphus Slade|Slade, Adolphus]] (1804/1802–1877)
* [[Author:Josef Václav Sládek|Sládek, Josef Václav]] (1845–1912)
* [[Author:Douglas Brooke Wheelton Sladen|Sladen, Douglas Brooke Wheelton]] (1856–1947)
* [[Author:Mohamedou Ould Slahi|Slahi, Mohamedou Ould]] (1970– )
* [[Author:Francis Carey Slater|Slater, Francis Carey]] (1876–1958)
* [[Author:Henry Horrocks Slater|Slater, Henry Horrocks]] (1851–1934)
* [[Author:John William Slater|Slater, John William]] (1820–1898)
* [[Author:Petko Rachov Slaveykov|Slaveikov, Petko Rachov]] (1827–1895)
* [[Author:Antonín Slavíček|Slavíček, Antonín]] (1870–1910)
* [[Author:Fielder Cross Slingluff|Slingluff, Fielder Cross]] (1842–1918)
* [[Author:Hans Sloane|Sloane, Sir Hans]] (1660–1753)
* [[Author:T. O'Conor Sloane|Sloane, T. O'Conor]] (1851–?)
* [[Author:William Milligan Sloane|Sloane, William Milligan]] (1850–1928)
* [[Author:Edwin Kirk Sloat|Sloat, Edwin K.]] (1895–1986)
* [[Author:Joshua Slocum|Slocum, Joshua]] (1844–1909)
* [[Author:Anna Trumbull Slosson|Slosson, Anna Trumbull]] (1838–1926)
* [[Author:Edward Slosson|Slosson, Edward]] (1814–1871)
* [[Author:Edwin Emery Slosson|Slosson, Edwin Emery]] (1865–1929)

=={{anchor|Sm}}Sm/Šm==
* [[Author:James Smail|Smail, James]] (1828–1905)
* [[Author:George Smalridge|Smalridge, George]] (1662–1719)
* [[Author:Christopher Smart|Smart, Christopher]] (1722–1771)
* [[Author:John Semple Smart|Smart, John Semple]] (1868–1925)
* [[Author:Susan Dabney Smedes|Smedes, Susan Dabney]] (1840–1913)
* [[Author:Jonathan Smedley|Smedley, Jonathan]] (1671–1729)
* [[Author:William Thomas Smedley|Smedley, William Thomas]] (1858–1920)
* [[Author:Alfred Hutchison Smee|Smee, Alfred Hutchison]] (1841–1901)
* [[Author:William Smellie|Smellie, William]] (1740–1795)
* [[Author:Bedřich Smetana|'''Smetana, Bedřich''']] (1824–1884)
* [[Author:Jaroslav František Smetánka|Smetánka, Jaroslav František]] (1881–1937)
* [[Author:Václav Smetánka|Smetánka, Václav]] (1886–?)
* [[Author:James Smetham|Smetham, James]] (1821–1889)
* [[Author:Heinrich Smidt|Smidt, Heinrich]] (1798–1867)
* [[Author:Samuel Smiles|Smiles, Samuel]] (1812–1904)
* [[Author:Sarah Frances Smiley|Smiley, Sarah Frances]] (1830–1917)
* [[Author:Thomas William Smillie|Smillie, Thomas William]] (1843–1917)
* [[Author:Alois Vojtěch Šmilovský|Šmilovský, Alois Vojtěch]] (1837–1883)
* '''[[Author:Adam Smith|Smith, Adam]]''' (1723–1790)
* [[Author:Alexander Smith|Smith, Alexander]] (1829–1867)
* [[Author:Allan Corstorphin Smith|Smith, Allan Corstorphin]] (1884–1962)
* [[Author:Alyssa Whitall Pearsall Smith|Smith, Alyssa Whitall Pearsall]] (1867–1951)
* [[Author:Ann Maria Carter Smith|Smith, Ann Maria Carter]] (1835–1909)
* [[Author:Arthur Smith|Smith, Arthur]] (1870–1929)
* [[Author:Arthur Hamilton Smith|Smith, Arthur Hamilton]] (1860–1941)
* [[Author:Arthur Henderson Smith|Smith, Arthur Henderson]] (1845–1932)
* [[Author:Benjamin Eli Smith|Smith, Benjamin Eli]] (1857–1913)
* [[Author:Caroline Louisa Sprague Smith|Smith, Caroline Louisa Sprague]] (1827–1886)
* [[Author:Cecil Smith|Smith, Cecil]] (1826–1890)
* [[Author:Cecil Harcourt Smith|Smith, Cecil Harcourt]] (1859–1944)
* [[Author:Charles Alphonso Smith|Smith, Charles Alphonso]] (1864–1924)
* [[Author:Charles Emory Smith|Smith, Charles Emory]] (1842–1908)
* [[Author:Charles Stewart Smith|Smith, Charles Stewart]] (1832–1909) 
* [[Author:Charlotte Fell Smith|Smith, Charlotte Fell]] (1851–1937)
* [[Author:Charlotte Turner Smith|Smith, Charlotte Turner]] (1749–1806)
* [[Author:Charlotte Smith|Smith, Charlotte]] (1749–1806)
* [[Author:Cicely Fox Smith|Smith, Cicely Fox]] (1882–1954)
* [[Author:Clark Ashton Smith|Smith, Clark Ashton]] (1893–1961)
* [[Author:Clifford P. Smith|Smith, Clifford P.]]
* [[Author:Constance Isabella Stuart Smith|Smith, Constance Isabella Stuart]] (1859–1930)
* [[Author:Edgar Albert Smith|Smith, Edgar Albert]] (1847–1916)
* [[Author:Edgar Fahs Smith|Smith, Edgar Fahs]] (1854–1928)
* [[Author:Edward Smith (1839-1919)|Smith, Edward]] (1839–1919)
* [[Author:Edward Elmer Smith|Smith, Edward Elmer]] (1890–1965)
* [[Author:Edward Shrapnell Smith|Smith, Edward Shrapnell]] (1875–1952)
* [[Author:Edwin Burritt Smith|Smith, Edwin Burritt]] (1854–1906)
* [[Author:Elbert Herring Smith|Smith, Elbert Herring]] (fl. 1849)
* [[Author:Elizabeth Oakes (Prince) Smith|Smith, Elizabeth Oakes (Prince)]] (1806–1893)
* [[Author:Ethan Smith|Smith, Ethan]] (1762–1849)
* [[Author:Francis Hopkinson Smith|Smith, Francis Hopkinson]] (1838–1915)
* [[Author:Frederick Smith (1805-1879)|Smith, Frederick]] (1805–1879)
* [[Author:Garrett Smith|Smith, Garrett]] (1878–1954)
* [[Author:George A. Smith|Smith, George A.]] (1817–1875)
* [[Author:George Barnett Smith|Smith, George Barnett]] (1841–1909)
* [[Author:George Charles Moore Smith|Smith, George Charles Moore]] (1858–1940)
* [[Author:George Gregory Smith|Smith, George Gregory]] (1865–1932)
* [[Author:Goldwin Smith|Smith, Goldwin]] (1823–1910)
* [[Author:Harry Bache Smith|Smith, Harry Bache]] (1860–1936)
* [[Author:Helen Smith|Smith, Helen]] (c. 1798 – 1883)
* [[Author:Henry A. Smith|Smith, Henry A.]] (1830–1915)
* [[Author:Henry Augustus Middleton Smith|Smith, Henry Augustus Middleton]] (1853–1924)
* [[Author:Henry Preserved Smith|Smith, Henry Preserved]] (1847–1927)
* [[Author:H. Greenhough Smith|Smith, Herbert Greenhough]] (1855–1935)
* [[Author:Michael Hoke Smith|Smith, Hoke]] (1855–1931)
* [[Author:Horace Smith|Smith, Horace]] (1779–1849)
* [[Author:Huntington Smith|Smith, Huntington]] (1857–1926)
* [[Author:Isaac Gregory Smith|Smith, Isaac Gregory]] (1826–1920)
* [[Author:James Smith (1802-1862)|Smith, James]] (1802–1862)
* [[Author:James Edward Smith|Smith, James Edward]] (1759–1828)
* [[Author:James McCune Smith|Smith, James McCune]] (1813–1865)
* [[Author:James Power Smith|Smith, James Power]] (1837–1923)
* [[Author:Jessie Willcox Smith|Smith, Jessie Willcox]] (1863–1935)
* [[Author:John Smith (1781-1855)|Smith, John]] (1781–1855)
* [[Author:John Smith|Smith, John]] (1837–1922)
* [[Author:John Alexander Smith (1813-1889)|Smith, John Alexander]] (1813–1889)
* [[Author:John Alexander Smith (1863-1939)|Smith, John Alexander]] (1863–1939)
* [[Author:John Francis Smith|Smith, John Francis]] (c. 1806 – 1840)
* [[Author:John Frederick Smith|Smith, John Frederick]]
* [[Author:John Thomas Smith|Smith, John Thomas]] (1766–1833)
* [[Author:Joseph Smith (1771-1840)|Smith, Joseph (1771–1840)]]
* '''[[Author:Joseph Smith (1805-1844)|Smith, Joseph]]''' (1805–1844)
* [[Author:Joseph Patterson Smith|Smith, Joseph Patterson]] (1856–1898)
* [[Author:Junius Bailey Smith|Smith, Junius Bailey]] (1883–1945)
* [[Author:Langdon Smith|Smith, Langdon]] (1858–1908)
* [[Author:Laura Alexandrine Smith|Smith, Laura Alexandrine]] (1861–1902)
* [[Author:Lucy Toulmin Smith|Smith, Lucy Toulmin]] (1838–1911)
* [[Author:Nora Archibald Smith|Smith, Nora Archibald]] (1859–1934)
* [[Author:Norman Kemp Smith|Smith, Norman Kemp]] (1872–1958)
* [[Author:Philip Smith|Smith, Philip]] (1817–1885)
* [[Author:Preserved Smith|Smith, Preserved]] (1880–1941)
* [[Author:Ray Burdick Smith|Smith, Ray Burdick]] (1867–1939)
* [[Author:Reginald John Smith|Smith, Reginald John]] (1857–1916)
* [[Author:Robert Angus Smith|Smith, Robert Angus]] (1817–1884)
* [[Author:Robert Bache Smith|Smith, Robert Bache]] (1875–1951)
* [[Author:Samuel Francis Smith|Smith, Samuel Francis]] (1808–1895)
* [[Author:Samuel J. Smith|Smith, Samuel J.]] (1820 – c. 1909)
* [[Author:Seba Smith|Smith, Seba]] (1792–1868)
* [[Author:Spenser Theyre Smith|Smith, Spenser Theyre]] (1834–1911)
* [[Author:Sydney Fenn Smith|Smith, Sydney Fenn]] (1843–1922)
* [[Author:Sydney Smith|Smith, Sydney]] (1771–1845)
* [[Author:Thomas Smith|Smith, Thomas]] (1817–1906)
* [[Author:Thomas Watson Smith|Smith, Thomas Watson]] (1836–1902)
* [[Author:Thorne Smith|Smith, Thorne]] (1892–1934)
* [[Author:W. Browning Smith|Smith, W. Browning]]
* [[Author:W. Dexter Smith Jr.|Smith Jr., W. Dexter]] (1842–1909)
* [[Author:Walter George Smith (1854-1924)|Smith, Walter George]] (1854–1924)
* [[Author:Wilford H. Smith|Smith, Wilford H.]]
* [[Author:William Smith (1813-1893)|Smith, Sir William]] (1813–1893)
* [[Author:William Smith (translator)|Smith, William]] (1816–1896)
* [[Author:William Benjamin Smith|Smith, William Benjamin]] (1850–1934)
* [[Author:William Charles Smith|Smith, William Charles]] (1849–1915)
* [[Author:William Henry Smith (1833-1896)|Smith, William Henry]] (1833–1896)
* [[Author:William Robertson Smith|Smith, William Robertson]] (1846–1894)
* [[Author:William Roy Smith|Smith, William Roy]] (1876–1938)
* [[Author:Wyndham Smith|Smith, Wyndham]] (1813–1871)
* [[Author:Arthur Smithells|Smithells, Arthur]] (1860–1939)
* [[Author:Tobias George Smollett|Smollett, Tobias George]] (1721–1771)
* Smyth, Amelia Gillespie: see [[Author:Amelia Gillespie Smyth|Gillespie Smyth, Amelia]] (1788–1876)
* [[Author:Charles Piazzi Smyth|Smyth, Charles Piazzi]] (1819–1900)
* [[Author:Lewis S.C. Smythe|Smythe, Lewis S.C.]] (1901–)
* [[Author:Ruth Smythers|Smythers, Ruth]]

=={{anchor|Sn}}Sn/Šn==
* [[Author:Thomas William Snagge|Snagge, Thomas William]] (1837–1914)
* [[Author:Karel Sudimír Šnajdr|Šnajdr, Karel Sudimír]] (1766–1835)
* [[Author:A. Snape|Snape, A.]]
* [[Author:Frederick John Snell|Snell, Frederick John]] (1862–1935)
* [[Author:Robert Evans Snodgrass|Snodgrass, Robert Evans]] (1875–1962)
* [[Author:Eliza Roxcy Snow|Snow, Eliza Roxcy]] (1804–1887)
* [[Author:Erastus Snow|Snow, Erastus]] (1818–1888)
* [[Author:Freeman Snow|Snow, Freeman]] (1841–1894)
* [[Author:Lorenzo Snow|Snow, Lorenzo]] (1814–1901)
* [[Author:Marshall Solomon Snow|Snow, Marshall Solomon]] (1842–1916)
* [[Author:Robert Anthony Snow|Snow, Robert Anthony]] (1955–2008)
* [[Author:Clinton A. Snowden|Snowden, Clinton A.]] (1847–1922)
* [[Author:Christiaan Snouck Hurgronje|Snouck Hurgronje, Christiaan]] (1857–1936)
* [[Author:Alexander Snyder|Snyder, Alexander]] (c. 1926)
* [[Author:Gary Snyder|Snyder, Gary]] (b. 1930)
* [[Author:Kenneth A. Snyder|Snyder, Kenneth A.]]
* [[Author:Ted Snyder|Snyder, Ted]] (1881–1965)

=={{anchor|So}}So/Sō==
* [[Author:George Soane|Soane, George]] (1790–1860)
* [[Portal:Socialist Party of Great Britain|The Socialist Party of Great Britain]] (1904–present)
* [[Author:Albrecht Socin|Socin, Albrecht]] (1844–1899)
* [[Portal:Socrates|'''Socrates''']] (c. 469 BCE–399 BCE)
* [[Author:Nishiyama Sōin|Sōin, Nishiyama]] (1605–1682)
* [[Author:John Anton Sokol|Sokol, John Anton]] (1875–1943)
* [[Author:Daniel Solander|Solander, Daniel Carlsson]] (1733–1782)
* [[Author:Torald Hermann Sollmann|Sollmann, Torald Hermann]] (1874–1965)
* [[Author:Gerald Brooks Hunt Solomon|Solomon, Gerald Brooks Hunt]] (1930–2001)
* [[Author:A. N. Somers|Somers, A. N.]] (?–?)
* [[Author:Robert Somers|Somers, Robert]] (1822–1891)
* [[Author:Alexander Somerville|Somerville, Alexander]] (1811–1885)
* [[Author:Sone no Yoshitada|Sone no Yoshitada]] (10th cent.)
* [[Author:Song Ik-phil|Song Ik-phil]] (1534–1599)
* [[Author:Song Si-yeol|Song Siyeol]] (1607–1689)
* [[Author:Song Yingxing|Song Yingxing]] (1587–1666)
* [[Author:Edward Adolf Sonnenschein|Sonnenschein, Edward Adolf]] (1851–1929)
* [[Author:Joseph Ferdinand Sonnleithner|Sonnleithner, Joseph Ferdinand]] (1766–1835)
* [[Author:Soong May-ling|Soong, May-ling]] (1897–2003)
* [[Author:Sophocles|'''Sophocles''']] (496 BC–406 BC)
* [[Author:Georges Sorel|Sorel, Georges]] (1847–1922)
* [[Author:Charles Soret|Soret, Charles]] (1854–1904)
* [[Author:Charles Sorley|Sorley, Charles]] (1895–1915)
* [[Author:William Ritchie Sorley|Sorley, William Ritchie]] (1855–1935)
* [[Author:Gaston Sortais|Sortais, Gaston]] (1852–1926)
* [[Author:Sosigenes of Alexandria|Sosigenes of Alexandria]] (''fl.'' 1st century B.C.E.)
* [[Author:Cruz e Sousa|Sousa, Cruz e]] (1861–1898)
* [[Author:Sosei|Sosei]] (816–910)
* [[Author:Dudley le Souef|le Souef, Dudley]] (1856–1923)
* [[Author:František Soukup|Soukup, František]] (1871–1940)
* [[Author:Josef Soukup|Soukup, Josef]] (fl. 1918–1922)
* [[Author:Basil Harrington Soulsby|Soulsby, Basil Harrington]] (1864–1933)
* [[Author:Andrei Sourakov|Sourakov, Andrei]]
* [[Author:John Philip Sousa|Sousa, John Philip]] (1854–1932)
* [[Author:William Soutar|Soutar, William]] (1898–1943)
* [[Author:Alexander Souter|Souter, Alexander]] (1873–1949)
* [[Author:David Souter|Souter, David]] (1939–2025)
* [[Author:Richard South|South, Richard]] (1846–1932)
* [[Author:Robert South|South, Robert]] (1634–1716)
* [[Author:Thomas Edwin Southee|Southee, Thomas Edwin]] (1819–1906)
* [[Author:Robert Southey|Southey, Robert]] (1774–1843)
* [[Author:John Southward|Southward, John]] (1840–1902)
* [[Author:Charles Southwell|Southwell, Charles]] (1814–1860)
* [[Author:Robert Southwell|Southwell, Robert]] (c. 1561–1595)
* [[Author:Thomas Southwell (1831-1909)|Southwell, Thomas]] (1831–1909)
* [[Author:Charles Léon Souvay|Souvay, Charles Léon]] (1870–1939)
* [[Author:Émile Souvestre|Souvestre, Émile]] (1806–1854)
* [[Author:Antonín Sova|Sova, Antonín]] (1864–1928)
* [[Author:George Brettingham Sowerby II|Sowerby, George Brettingham (II)]] (1812–1884)
* [[Author:James Sowerby|Sowerby, James]] (1757–1822)
* [[Author:James de Carle Sowerby|Sowerby, James de Carle]] (1787–1871)
* [[Author:John de Soyres|de Soyres, John]] (1847–1905)
* [[Author:Sozomen|Sozomen, Salminius Hermias]] (400–450)

=={{anchor|Sp}}Sp/Šp==
* [[Author:Adriana Spadoni|Spadoni, Adriana]] (1879–1953)
* [[Author:Martin Spahn|Spahn, Martin]] (1875–1945)
* [[Author:Cyrill Spal|Spal, Cyrill]] (fl. 1906)
* [[Author:Václav Špála|Špála, Václav]] (1885–1946)
* [[Author:Douglas Alexander Spalding|Spalding, Douglas Alexander]] (1841–1877)
* [[Author:Henry Harmon Spalding|Spalding, Henry Harmon]] (1803–1874)
* [[Author:William Spalding|Spalding, William]] (1809–1859)
* [[Author:William Frederick Spaulding|Spaulding, William Frederick]] (1879–1963)
* [[Author:David M. Speaker|Speaker, David A.]] (fl. 1928–1933)
* [[Author:Lancelot Speed|Speed, Lancelot]] (1860–1931)
* [[Author:John Speidell|Speidell, John]] (''fl.'' 1600–1634)
* [[Author:Thomas Wilkinson Speight|Speight, Thomas Wilkinson]] (1830–1915)
* [[Author:Henry Spelman|Spelman, Sir Henry]] (1564–1641)
* [[Author:Anna Garlin Spencer|Spencer, Anna Garlin]] (1851–1931)
* [[Author:Hazelton Spencer|Spencer, Hazelton]] (1893–1944)
* '''[[Author:Herbert Spencer|Spencer, Herbert]]''' (1820–1903)
* [[Author:Ichabod Smith Spencer|Spencer, Ichabod Smith]] (1798–1854)
* [[Author:Leonard James Spencer|Spencer, Leonard James]] (1870–1959)
* [[Author:Harold Spender|Spender, Harold]] (1864–1926)
* [[Author:Oswald Spengler|Spengler, Oswald]] (1880–1936)
* '''[[Author:Edmund Spenser|Spenser, Edmund]]''' (c. 1552–1599)
* [[Author:John George Spenzer|Spenzer, John George]] (1864–1932)
* [[Author:Edward Clarke Spicer|Spicer, Edward Clarke]] (1850–1931)
* [[Author:Marion Harry Alexander Spielmann|Spielmann, Marion Harry Alexander]] (1858–1948)
* [[Author:Richard Phené Spiers|Spiers, Richard Phené]] (1838–1916)
* [[Author:August Vincent Theodore Spies|Spies, August Vincent Theodore]] (1855–1887)
* [[Author:Karel Špillar|Špillar, Karel]] (1871–1939)
* [[Author:Karl Spindler|Spindler, Karl]] (1796–1855)
* [[Author:Matthew Spinka|Spinka, Matthew]] (1890–1972)
* '''[[Author:Benedictus de Spinoza|Spinoza, Benedictus de]]''' (1632–1677)
* [[Author:Susanna Spinsante|Spinsante, Susanna]] (20th century – )
* [[Author:Edward Anthony Spitzka|Spitzka, Edward Anthony]] (1876–1922)
* [[Author:Edward Charles Spitzka|Spitzka, Edward Charles]] (1852–1914)
* [[Author:Henry Maxwell Spooner|Spooner, Henry Maxwell]] (1847–1929)
* [[Author:Lysander Spooner|Spooner, Lysander]] (1807–1887)
* [[Author:William Spottiswoode|Spottiswoode, William]] (1825–1883)
* [[Author:Charles Sprague|Sprague, Charles]] (1791–1875)
* [[Author:Charles Ezra Sprague|Sprague, Charles Ezra]] (1842–1912)
* [[Author:Thomas Sprat|Sprat, Thomas]] (1635–1713)
* [[Author:Ella Správková|Správková, Ella]] (1873–1952)
* [[Author:Gardiner Spring|Spring, Gardiner]] (1785–1873)
* [[Author:Walthère Victor Spring|Spring, Walthère Victor]] (1848–1911)
* [[Author:Stephen Edward Spring-Rice|Spring-Rice, Stephen Edward]] (1856–1902)
* [[Author:George Washington Sprott|Sprott, George Washington]] (1829–1909)
* [[Author:Charles Spurgeon|Spurgeon, Charles]] (1834–1892)
* '''[[Author:Johanna Spyri|Spyri, Johanna]]''' (1827–1901)

==Sq==
* [[Author:James Squire|Squire, James]] (1754–1822)
* [[Author:John Collings Squire|Squire, Sir John Collings]] (1884–1958)
* [[Author:William Barclay Squire|Squire, William Barclay]] (1855–1927)

=={{anchor|Sr}}Sr/Šr==
* [[Author:Fráňa Šrámek|'''Šrámek, Fráňa''']] (1877–1952)
* [[Author:Josef Šrámek|Šrámek, Josef]] (1892/1882/1885–1984)
* [[Author:Sridhara|Sridhara]] (870–930)
* [[Author:Srirangam Srinivasarao|Srirangam Srinivasarao]] (1910–1983)
* [[Author:Vavro Šrobár|Šrobár, Vavro]] (1867–1950)

=={{anchor|St}}St/Št/Šť==
* [[Author:Henry St. John|St. John, Henry]] (1678–1751)
* [[Author:James Augustus St. John|St. John, James Augustus]] (1795–1875)
* [[Author:Marie St. John|St. John, Marie]] (?–1749)
* [[Author:Frederick Edward Molyneux St. John|St. John, Molyneux]] (1838–1904)
* [[Author:Oliver Beauchamp Coventry St John| St John, Oliver Beauchamp Coventry]] (1837–1891)
* [[Author:William St. Lawrence|St. Lawrence, William]] (1688–1748)
* [[Author:William Gordon Stables|Stables, William Gordon]] (1837–1910)
* [[Author:Jonathan Lett Stackhouse|Stackhouse, Jonathan Lett]] (1833–1907)
* [[Author:Thomas Polhill Stafford|Stafford, Thomas Polhill]] (1866–1942)
* [[Author:William Cooke Stafford|Stafford, William Cooke]] (1793–1876)
* [[Author:Erik Johan Stagnelius|Stagnelius, Erik Johan]] (1793–1823)
* [[Author:Henri Stahl|Stahl, Henri]] (1877–1942)
* [[Author:Franz Walter Stahlecker|Stahlecker, Franz]] (1900–1942)
* [[Author:Adolf Stahr|Stahr, Adolf]] (1805–1876)
* [[Author:Joseph Stalin|Stalin, Joseph]] (1878–1953)
* [[Author:John Bernhard Stallo|Stallo, John Bernhard]] (1823–1900)
* [[Author:James Steven Stallybrass|Stallybrass, James Steven]] (1826–1888)
* [[Author:John Knox Stallybrass|Stallybrass, John Knox]] (1823–1879)
* [[Author:Emanuel Staněk|Staněk, Emanuel]] (1862–1920)
* [[Author:František Staněk|Staněk, František]] (1867–1936)
* [[Author:Charles Villiers Stanford|Stanford, Charles Villiers]] (1852–1924)
* [[Author:John Frederick Stanford|Stanford, John Frederick]] (1815–1880)
* [[Author:Philip Dormer Stanhope|Stanhope, Philip Dormer]] (1694–1773)
* [[Author:Philip Henry Stanhope|Stanhope, Philip Henry]] (1805–1875)
* [[Author:Arthur Penrhyn Stanley|Stanley, Arthur Penrhyn]] (1815–1881)
* [[Author:Edward Stanley (1779-1849)|Stanley, Edward, Bishop of Norwich]] (1779–1849)
* [[Author:Edward Smith-Stanley|Stanley, Edward Smith-, 14th Earl of Derby]] (1799–1869)
* [[Author:Henry Edward John Stanley|Stanley, Henry, 3rd Baron Stanley of Alderley]] (1827–1903)
* [[Author:Edward Stanley, 15th Earl of Derby|Stanley, Edward 15th Earl of Derby]] (1826–1893)
* [[Author:Owen Stanley|Stanley, Owen]] (1811–1850)
* [[Author:Milivoy Stoyan Stanoyevich|Stanoyevich, Milivoy Stoyan]] (b. 1882)
* [[Author:Elizabeth Cady Stanton|Stanton, Elizabeth Cady]] (1815–1902)
* [[Author:Henry Stanton|Stanton, Henry]] (1805–1887)
* [[Author:Vincent Henry Stanton|Stanton, Vincent Henry]] (1846–1924)
* [[Author:Ellis Stanyon|Stanyon, Ellis]] (1870–1951)
* [[Author:Edwin Diller Starbuck|Starbuck, Edwin Diller]] (1866–1947)
* [[Author:Arthur Cowell Stark|Stark, Arthur Cowell]] (1846–1899)
* [[Author:Chauncey Clark Starkweather|Starkweather, Chauncey Clark]] (1851–1922)
* [[Author:Frederick Starr|Starr, Frederick]] (1858–1933)
* [[Author:Moses Allen Starr|Starr, Moses Allen]] (1854–1932)
* [[Author:Edwin A. Start|Start, Edwin A.]] (c. 1900)
* [[Author:Ferdinand Šťastný|Šťastný, Ferdinand]] (1873–1957)
* [[Author:Henry Heathcote Statham|Statham, Henry Heathcote]] (1839–1924)
* [[Author:Vernon Stauffer|Stauffer, Vernon]] (1875–1925)
* [[Author:David George Stead|Stead, David George]] (1877–1957)
* [[Author:William Thomas Stead|Stead, William Thomas]] (1849–1912)
* [[Author:Wallace N. Stearns|Stearns, Wallace Nelson]] (1866–?)
* [[Author:Edward Percy Stebbing|Stebbing, Edward Percy]] (1872–1960)
* [[Author:Thomas Roscoe Rede Stebbing|Stebbing, Thomas Roscoe Rede]] (1835–1926)
* [[Author:William Stebbing|Stebbing, William]] (1831–1926)
* [[Author:Arthur Griffin Stedman|Stedman, Arthur Griffin]] (1859–1908)
* [[Author:Edmund Clarence Stedman|Stedman, Edmund Clarence]] (1833–1908)
* [[Author:Henry Wickham Steed|Steed, Henry Wickham]] (1871–1956)
* [[Author:Anne Steele|Steele, Anne]] (1717–1778)
* [[Author:Francis Edward Steele|Steele, Francis Edward]] (1863–1927)
* [[Author:John Charles Steele|Steele, John Charles]] (c. 1821–1892)
* [[Author:Richard Steele|Steele, Sir Richard]] (1672–1729)
* [[Author:Robert Steele|Steele, Robert]] (1860–1944)
* [[Author:Thomas Steele|Steele, Thomas]] (1834–1895)
* [[Author:Jan Havickszoon Steen|Steen, Jan Havickszoon]] (1626–1679)
* [[Author:Henrik Steffens|Steffens, Henrik]] (1773–1845)
* [[Author:Joseph Lincoln Steffens|Steffens, Joseph Lincoln]] (1846–1936)
* [[Author:John Steffler|Steffler, John]] (1947–present)
* [[Author:Edward de Stein|Stein, Edward de]] (1887–1965)
* '''[[Author:Gertrude Stein|Stein, Gertrude]]''' (1874–1946)
* [[Author:Marc Aurel Stein|Stein, Marc Aurel]] (1862–1943)
* [[Author:Robert Stein|Stein, Robert]] (1857–1917)
* [[Author:John Steinbeck|Steinbeck, John]] (1902–1968)
* [[Author:Georg Steindorff|Steindorff, Georg]] (1861–1951)
* [[Author:Rudolf Steiner|Steiner, Rudolf]] (1861–1925)
* [[Author:Henry Steinhauer|Steinhauer, Henry]] (11782–1818)
* [[Author:Wilhelm Steinitz|Steinitz, Wilhelm]] (1836–1900)
* [[Author:Ernst Steinle|Steinle, Ernst]] (fl. 1894–1901)
* [[Author:Stendhal|Stendhal]] (1783–1842)
* [[Author:Edward Step|Step, Edward]] (1855–1931)
* [[Author:Bedřich Štěpánek|Štěpánek, Bedřich]] (1884–1943)
* [[Author:Stephen the Sabaite|Stephen the Sabaite]] (725–796)
* [[Author:Caroline Emilia Stephen|Stephen, Caroline Emilia]] (1834–1909)
* [[Author:Herbert Stephen|Stephen, Herbert]] (1857–1932)
* [[Author:James Stephen|Stephen, Sir James]] (1789–1859)
* [[Author:Julia Prinsep Stephen|Stephen, Julia Prinsep]] (1846–1895)
* [[Author:Leslie Stephen|Stephen, Leslie]] (1832–1904)
* [[Author:Alexander Stephens|Stephens, Alexander]] (1812–1883)
* [[Author:Ann S. Stephens|Stephens, Ann Sophia]] (1810–1886)
* [[Author:Frederic George Stephens|Stephens, Frederic George]] (1828–1907)
* [[Author:Henry Morse Stephens|Stephens, Henry Morse]] (1857–1919)
* [[Author:James Brunton Stephens|Stephens, James Brunton]] (1835–1902)
* [[Author:James Francis Stephens|Stephens, James Francis]] (1792–1852)
* [[Author:John Lloyd Stephens|Stephens, John Lloyd]] (1805–1852)
* [[Author:Percy Somers Tyringham Stephens|Stephens, Percy Somers Tyringham]] (1860–1934)
* [[Author:Sophia Charlotte Winifred Stephens|Stephens, Sophia Charlotte Winifred]] (1870–1944)
* [[Author:William Richard Wood Stephens|Stephens, William Richard Wood]] (1839–1902)
* [[Author:Henry Thew Stephenson|Stephenson, Henry Thew]] (1870–1957)
* [[Author:Cesare Sterbini|Sterbini, Cesare]] (1784–1831)
* [[Author:James Robert Sterndale-Bennett|Sterndale-Bennett, James Robert]] (1847–1928)
* [[Author:Carus Sterne|Sterne, Carus]] (1839–1903)
* [[Author:John Sterne|Sterne, John]] (1660–1745)
* [[Author:Laurence Sterne|Sterne, Laurence]] (1713–1768)
* [[Author:Virginia Frances Sterrett|Sterrett, Virginia Frances]] (1900–1931)
* [[Author:Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben|Steuben, Friedrich Wilhelm von]] (1730–1794)
* [[Author:Tariq Stévart|Stévart, Tariq]] (1973-)
* [[Author:Bertram William Mathyson Francis Stevens|Stevens, Bertram William Mathyson Francis]] (1872–1922)
* [[Author:Henry Stevens|Stevens, Henry]] (1819–1885)
* [[Author:John Austin Stevens|Stevens, John Austin (Jr.)]] (1827–1910)
* [[Author:John Paul Stevens|Stevens, John Paul]] (b. 1920)
* [[Author:Samuel Stevens (1817-1899)|Stevens, Samuel]] (1817–1899)
* [[Author:Wallace Stevens|Stevens, Wallace]] (1879–1955)
* [[Author:Walter Barlow Stevens|Stevens, Walter Barlow]] (1848–1939)
* [[Author:William Brook Bridges Stevens|Stevens, William Brook Bridges]] (1835–1876)
* [[Author:Adlai Stevenson|Stevenson, Adlai]] (1900–1965)
* [[Author:David Alan Stevenson|Stevenson, David Alan]] (1854–1938)
* [[Author:John Horne Stevenson|Stevenson, John Horne]] (1855–1939)
* [[Author:Morley Stevenson|Stevenson, Morley]] (1851–1930)
* [[Author:Robert Alan Mowbray Stevenson|Stevenson, Robert Alan Mowbray]] (1847–1900)
* '''[[Author:Robert Louis Stevenson|Stevenson, Robert Louis]]''' (1850–1894)
* [[Author:Sarah Ann Hackett Stevenson|Stevenson, Sarah Ann Hackett]] (1849–1909)
* [[Author:Thomas Stevenson (1838-1908)|Stevenson, Thomas]] (1838–1908)
* [[Author:Simon Stevin|Stevin, Simon]] (1548–1620)
* [[Author:Balfour Stewart|Stewart, Balfour]] (1828–1887)
* [[Author:Dugald Stewart|Stewart, Dugald]] (1753–1828)
* [[Author:Louisa Stewart|Stewart, Louisa]] (''c''. 1821 – 1881)
* [[Author:Potter Stewart|Stewart, Potter]] (1915–1985)
* [[Author:William Stewart|Stewart, William]] (1709–1769)
* [[Author:William James Stewart|Stewart, William James]] (1831–1863)
* [[Author:Heinrich Wilhelm August Stieglitz|Stieglitz, Heinrich Wilhelm August]] (1801–1849)
* [[Author:James Stiff|Stiff, James]] (1808–1897)
* [[Author:Jenny H. Stickney|Stickney, Jenny H.]] (1840–)
* [[Author:Ezra Stiles|Stiles, Ezra]] (1727–1795)
* [[Author:Robert Stiles|Stiles, Robert]] (1836–1905)
* [[Author:Edward Stillingfleet|Stillingfleet, Edward]] (1635–1699)
* [[Author:John Maxson Stillman|Stillman, John Maxson]] (1852–1923)
* [[Author:William James Stillman|Stillman, William James]] (1828–1901)
* [[Author:Frederic Jesup Stimson|Stimson, Frederic Jesup]] (1855–1943)
* [[Author:James Stirling|Stirling, Sir James]] (1791–1865)
* [[Author:James Hutchison Stirling|Stirling, James Hutchison]] (1820–1909)
* [[Author:Max Stirner|Stirner, Max]] (1806–1856)
* [[Author:Joannes Stobaeus|Stobaeus, Joannes]] (''fl.'' c. 5th century)
* [[Author:Eugene Stock|Stock, Eugene]] (1836–1928)
* [[Author:St George Stock|Stock, St. George]] (1850–?)
* [[Author:John Stockdale|Stockdale, John]] (1750–1814)
* [[Author:William Stocking|Stocking, William]] (1840–1930)
* [[Author:Ernest Norman Stockley|Stockley, Ernest Norman]] (1872–1946)
* [[Author:Ralph Stockman|Stockman, Ralph]] (1861–1946)
* [[Author:Frank R. Stockton|Stockton, Frank R.]] (1834–1902)
* [[Author:Archibald Stodart-Walker|Stodart-Walker, Archibald]] (1869–1934)
* [[Author:Elizabeth Stoddard|Stoddard, Elizabeth]] (1823–1902)
* [[Author:John Tappan Stoddard|Stoddard, John Tappan]] (1852–1919)
* [[Author:Lothrop Stoddard|Stoddard, Lothrop]] (1883–1950)
* [[Author:Richard Henry Stoddard|Stoddard, Richard Henry]] (1825–1903)
* [[Author:Thomas Tod Stoddart|Stoddart, Thomas Tod]] (1810–1880)
* [[Author:Pavel Stoev|Stoev, Pavel]]
* '''[[Author:Bram Stoker|Stoker, Bram]]''' (1847–1912)
* [[Author:Anson Phelps Stokes (1838-1913)|Stokes, Anson Phelps]] (1834–1913)
* [[Author:Anson Phelps Stokes (1874-1958)|Stokes, Anson Phelps]] (1874–1958)
* [[Author:Gabriel Stokes|Stokes, 1st Baronet, Sir George Gabriel]] (1819–1903)
* [[Author:George Thomas Stokes|Stokes, George Thomas]] (1843–1898)
* [[Author:John Lort Stokes|Stokes, John Lort]] (1811–1885)
* [[Author:Isaac Newton Phelps Stokes|Stokes, Isaac Newton Phelps]] (1867–1944) 
* [[Author:Whitley Stokes|Stokes, Whitley]] (1830–1909)
* [[Author:Ferdinand Stoliczka|'''Stoliczka, Ferdinand''']] (1838–1874)
* [[Author:Jens Stoltenberg|Stoltenberg, Jens]] (1959–)
* [[Author:Andrew Leete Stone|Stone, Andrew Leete]] (1815–1892)
* [[Author:Harlan Fiske Stone|Stone, Harlan Fiske]] (1872–1946)
* [[Author:Henry Stone|Stone, Henry]] (1830–1896)
* [[Author:Marc Stone|Stone, Marc]] (fl. 2023)
* [[Author:George Hapgood Stone|Stone, George Hapgood]] (1841-1917)
* [[Author:Samuel John Stone|Stone, Samuel John]] (1839–1900)
* [[Author:Sibyl Wilbur Stone|Stone, Sibyl Wilbur]] (1871–1946)
* [[Author:William Henry Stone|Stone, William Henry]] (1830–1891)
* [[Author:William Leete Stone|Stone, William Leete]] (1835–1908)
* [[Author:George Johnstone Stoney|Stoney, George Johnstone]] (1826–1911)
* [[Author:Henry Butler Stoney|Stoney, Henry Butler]] (1816–1894)
* [[Author:Charlotte Carmichael Stopes|Stopes, Charlotte Carmichael]] (1841–1929)
* [[Author:Marie Carmichael Stopes|Stopes, Marie Carmichael]] (1880–1958)
* [[Author:Moorfield Storey|Storey, Moorfield]] (1845–1929)
* [[Author:Francis Storr|Storr, Francis]] (1839–1919)
* [[Author:Richard Salter Storrs|Storrs, Richard Salter]] (1821–1900)
* [[Author:Alfred Thomas Story|Story, Alfred Thomas]] (1842–1934)
* [[Author:Joseph Story|Story, Joseph]] (1779–1845)
* [[Author:Robert Story|Story, Robert]] (1795–1860)
* [[Author:William Edward Story|Story, William Edward]] (1850–1930)
* [[Author:Leif Størmer|Størmer, Leif]] (1905–1979)
* [[Author:Thomas Stothard|Stothard, Thomas]] (1755–1834)
* [[Author:George Stott|Stott, George]] (''c''. 1814 – 1911)
* [[Author:George Frederick Stout|Stout, George Frederick]] (1860–1944)
* [[Author:Rex Stout|Stout, Rex Todhunter]] (1886–1975)
* [[Author:Z. Barton Stout|Stout, Z. Barton]] (–1864)
* [[Author:Charles Edward Stowe|Stowe, Charles Edward]] (1850–1934)
* '''[[Author:Harriet Beecher Stowe|Stowe, Harriet Beecher]]''' (1811–1896)
* [[Author:William Averill Stowell|Stowell, William Averill]] (1882–1950)
* [[Author:John Strachan|Strachan, John]] (1862–1907)
* [[Author:Giles Lytton Strachey|Strachey, Giles Lytton]] (1880–1932)
* [[Author:Richard Strachey|Strachey, Richard]] (1817–1908)
* [[Author:Alexander Strahan|Strahan, Alexander]] (1834–1918)
* [[Author:Samuel Alexander Kenny Strahan|Strahan, Samuel Alexander Kenny]] (?–1902)
* [[Author:Charles Strange|Strange, Charles]] (1815–1870)
* [[Author:Edward Fairbrother Strange|Strange, Edward Fairbrother]] (1862–1929)
* [[Author:Adolf Stránský|Stránský, Adolf]] (1855–1931)
* [[Author:Johann Nepomuk Strassmaier|Strassmaier, Father Johann Nepomuk]] (1846–1920)
* [[Author:Edward Stratemeyer|Stratemeyer, Edward]] (1862–1930)
* [[Author:Samuel Wesley Stratton|Stratton, Samuel Wesley]] (1861–1931) 
* [[Author:Gene Stratton-Porter|Stratton-Porter, Gene]] (1863–1924)
* [[Author:M. R. Strausberger|Strausberger, M. R.]]
* [[Author:David Friedrich Strauss|Strauss, David Friedrich]] (1808–1874)
* [[Author:Emil Strauß|Strauß, Emil]] (1866–1960)
* [[Author:Richard Georg Strauss|Strauss, Richard Georg]] (1864–1949)
* [[Author:Igor Stravinsky|Stravinsky, Igor]] (1882–1971)
* [[Author:Joseph Strayer|Strayer, Joseph]] (1904–1987)
* [[Author:Richard Alexander Streatfeild|Streatfeild, Richard Alexander]] (1866–1919)
* [[Author:Eleanor Stredder|Stredder, Eleanor]] (1835–1913)
* [[Author:Alfred Billings Street|Street, Alfred Billings]] (1811–1881)
* [[Author:Abel Delos Streight|Streight, Abel Delos]] (1828–1892)
* [[Author:Božena Strejcová|Strejcová, Božena]] (fl. 1907–1916)
* [[Author:Viktor Stretti|Stretti, Viktor]] (1878–1957)
* [[Author:Jaromír Stretti-Zamponi|Stretti-Zamponi, Jaromír]] (1882–1959)
* [[Author:Thomas Sigismund Stribling|Stribling, Thomas Sigismund]] (1881–1965)
* [[Author:Jiří Stříbrný|Stříbrný, Jiří]] (1880–1955)
* [[Author:Agnes Strickland|Strickland, Agnes]] (1796–1874)
* [[Author:Walter George Strickland|Strickland, Walter George]] (1850–1928)
* [[Author:Walter William Strickland|Strickland, Walter William]] (1851–1938)
* '''[[Author:Johan August Strindberg|Strindberg, Johan August]]''' (1849–1912)
* [[Author:Josiah Strong|Strong, Josiah]] (1847–1916)
* [[Author:Thomas Banks Strong|Strong, Thomas Banks]] (1861–1944)
* [[Author:William Strong|Strong, William]] (1828–1902)
* '''[[Author:William Strunk, Jr.|Strunk Jr., William]]''' (1869–1946)
* [[Author:John William Strutt|Strutt, 3rd Baron Rayleigh, John William]] (1842–1919)
* [[Author:Joseph Strutt|Strutt, Joseph]] (1749–1802)
* [[Author:Robert John Strutt|Strutt, 4th Baron Rayleigh, Robert John]] (1875–1947)
* [[Author:John Strype|Strype, John]] (1643–1737)
* [[Author:Paweł Edmund Strzelecki|Strzelecki, Paweł Edmund]] (1797–1873)
* [[Author:Dorothy Margaret Stuart|Stuart, Dorothy Margaret]] (1889–1963)
* [[Author:James Ewell Brown Stuart|Stuart, James Ewell Brown]] (1833–1864)
* [[Author:James Montgomery Stuart|Stuart, James Montgomery]] (1816–1889)
* [[Author:Jesse Stuart|Stuart, Jesse]] (1906–1984)
* [[Author:Leslie Stuart|Stuart, Leslie]] (1863–1928)
* [[Author:Moses Stuart|Stuart, Moses]] (1780–1852)
* [[Author:Henry Stuart Jones|Stuart-Jones, Henry]] (1867–1939)
* [[Author:Charles William Stubbs|Stubbs, Charles William]] (1845–1912)
* [[Author:John Studley|Studley, John]] (1545–1590)
* [[Author:William Stukeley|Stukeley, William]] (1687–1765)
* [[Author:Aleksandras Stulginskis|Stulginskis, Aleksandras]] (1885–1969)
* [[Author:Preston Sturges|Sturges, Preston]] (1898–1959)
* [[Author:Jonathan Sturgis|Sturgis, Jonathan]] dates unknown
* '''[[Author:Snorri Sturluson|Sturluson, Snorri]]''' (1179–1241)
* [[Author:Jacques-Charles-François Sturm|Sturm, Jacques-Charles-François]] (1803–1855)
* [[Author:Frank Pearce Sturm|Sturm, Frank Pearce]] (1879–1942)
* [[Author:Beatrix Marion Sturt|Sturt, Beatrix Marion]] (1849–1944)
* [[Author:Charles Sturt|Sturt, Charles]] (1795–1869)
* [[Author:Henry Sturt|Sturt, Henry]] (1863–1946)
* [[Author:Josef Štýbr|Štýbr, Josef]] (1864–1938)

=={{anchor|Su}}Su/Šu/Śū==
* [[Author:František Adolf Šubert|Šubert, František Adolf]] (1849–1915)
* [[Author:Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar|Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar]] (1910–1995)
* [[Author:Alena Šubrtová|Šubrtová, Alena]] (1935–)
* [[Author:John Suckling|Suckling, John]] (1609–1642)
* [[Author:Joseph Sudik|Sudik, Joseph]] (1859–1943)
* [[Author:Śūdraka|Śūdraka]] (??–??)
* [[Author:Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus|'''Suetonius''']] (ca. 69/75–after 130)
* [[Author:Eugène Sue|Sue, Joseph Marie Eugène]] (1804–1857)
* [[Author:William Dawson Le Sueur|Le Sueur, William Dawson]] (1840–1917)
* [[Author:Sugawara no Michizane|Sugawara no Michizane]] (845–905)
* [[Author:Sugawara no Takasue no musume|Sugawara no Takasue no musume]] (1008–?)
* [[Author:Alan Sullivan|Sullivan, Alan]] (1868–1947)
* [[Author:Arthur Seymour Sullivan|'''Sullivan, Sir Arthur Seymour''']] (1842–1900)
* [[Author:Edward Sullivan (1822-1885)|Sullivan, Edward]] (1822–1885)
* [[Author:Edward Robert Sullivan|Sullivan, Edward Robert]] (1826–1899)
* [[Author:James Sullivan|Sullivan, James]]
* [[Author:James William Sullivan|Sullivan, James William]] (1848–1938)
* [[Author:William Kirby Sullivan|Sullivan, William Kirby]] (1821–1899)
* [[Author:James Sully|Sully, James]] (1842–1923)
* [[Author:Florence Sulman|Sulman, Florence]] (1876–1965)
* [[Author:Georg Sultan|Sultan, Georg]] (1865–1942)
* [[Author:Johann Georg Sulzer|Sulzer, Johann Georg]] (1720–1779)
* [[Author:Frederic Cesar de Sumichrast|Sumichrast, Frederic Cesar [de]]] (1845–1933)
* [[Author:James Summers|Summers, James]] (1828–1891)
* [[Author:Walter Coventry Summers|Summers, Walter Coventry]] (1869–1937)
* [[Author:Charles Sumner|Sumner, Charles]] (1811–1874)
* [[Author:Heywood Sumner|Sumner, Heywood]] (1853–1940)
* [[Author:John Bird Sumner|Sumner, John Bird]] (1780–1862)
* [[Author:William Graham Sumner|Sumner, William Graham]] (1840–1910)
* [[Author:Suō no Naishi|Suō no Naishi]] (1037–1109)
* [[Author:Suppiluliuma I|Suppiluliuma I]] (c. 1344 BCE–1322 BCE)
* [[Author:Wage Rudolf Supratman|Supratman, Wage Rudolf]] (1903–1938)
* [[Author:Su Shi|Su Shi]] (1037–1101)
* [[Author:Sun Tzu|'''Sun Tzu''']] (c. 6th century BCE)
* [[Author:Sun Yat-sen|Sun Yat-sen]] (1866–1925)
* [[Author:Alexander Georg Supan|Supan, Alexander Georg]] (1847–1910)
* [[Author:Pingali Suranna|Suranna, Pingali]] (1500–1550)
* [[Author:Alexander Suslin|Suslin, Alexander]] (?–1349)
* [[Author:Kyūkin Susukida|Susukida, Kyūkin]] (1877–1945)
* [[Author:John Rudolph Sutermeister|Sutermeister, John Rudolph]] (1803–1826)
* [[Author:Paul Sutermeister|Sutermeister, Paul]] (1864–1905)
* [[Author:George Sutherland (1862-1942)|Sutherland, George]] (1862–1942)
* [[Author:William Bruce Sutherland|Sutherland, William Bruce]] (fl. 1916)
* [[Author:Sutoku|Sutoku]] (1119–1164)
* [[Author:Charles William Sutton|Sutton, Charles William]] (1848–1920)
* [[Author:George Augustus Sutton|Sutton, George Augustus]] (1869–1947)

=={{anchor|Sv}}Sv/Šv==
* [[Author:Max Švabinský|Švabinský, Max]] (1873–1962)
* [[Author:Erik Thomas Svedenstierna|Svedenstierna, Erik Thomas]] (1765–1825)
* [[Author:Antonín Švehla|Švehla, Antonín]] (1873–1933)
* [[Author:Sveinbjörn Sveinbjörnsson|Sveinbjörn Sveinbjörnsson]] (1847–1927)
* [[Author:Olga Svejkovská|Svejkovská, Olga]] (1923–)
* [[Author:Karolina Světlá|Světlá, Karolina]] (1830–1899)
* [[Author:Tomas Svitek|Svitek, Tomas]] (1962–)
* [[Author:František Xaver Svoboda|Svoboda, František Xaver]] (1860–1943)
* [[Author:George Svoboda|Svoboda, George]] (1933–2004)
* [[Author:Marie Svoboda|Svoboda, Marie]] (1868–1936)
* [[Author:Tomáš Svoboda|Svoboda, Tomáš]] (1959–)
* [[Author:Růžena Svobodová|Svobodová, Růžena]] (1868–1920)

==Sw==
* [[Author:Maurice Swabey|Swabey, Maurice]] (1830–1902)
* [[Author:Joseph Ward Swain|Swain, Joseph Ward]] (1891–1971)
* [[Author:William Swainson (1789-1855)|Swainson, William]] (1789–1855)
* [[Author:M. S. Swaminathan|Swaminathan, M. S.]] (1925–)
* [[Author:John Swammerdam (1637-1680)|Swammerdam, John]] (1637–1680)
* [[Author:Anna Swanwick|Swanwick, Anna]] (1813–1899)
* [[Author:Swami Swatmarama|Swatmarama, Swami]] (1350–1400 CE)
* [[Author:Harry Swarth|Swarth, Harry Schelwald]] (1856–1935)
* [[Author:Olof Swartz|Swartz, Olof]] (1760–1816)
* [[Author:George Carless Swayne|Swayne, George Carless]] (1818–1892)
* [[Author:Margaret Swayne|Swayne, Margaret]] (1827–1917)
* [[Author:Noah Haynes Swayne|Swayne, Noah Haynes]] (1804–1884)
* [[Author:Emanuel Swedenborg|Swedenborg, Emanuel]] (1688–1772)
* [[Author:Henry Sweet|Sweet, Henry]] (1845–1912)
* [[Author:Moses Forster Sweetser|Sweetser, Moses Forster]] (1848–1897)
* [[Author:Francis Joseph Swehla|Swehla, Francis Joseph]] (1845–1921)
* [[Author:David Ferdinand Swenson|Swenson, David Ferdinand]] (1876–1940)
* [[Author:Sophie Swetchine|Swetchine, Sophie]] (1782–1857)
* [[Author:Rodway Charles John Swinhoe|Swinhoe, Rodway Charles John]] (1863–1927)
* [[Author:Jane Swift|Swift, Jane]] (1666—)
* '''[[Author:Jonathan Swift|Swift, Jonathan]]''' (1667–1745)
* [[Author:Edmund Lewis Lenthal Swifte|Swifte, Edmund Lewis Lenthal]] (1777–1875)
* [[Author:Glen Levin Swiggett|Swiggett, Glen Levin]] (1867–1961)
* [[Author:Algernon Charles Swinburne|Swinburne, Algernon Charles]] (1837–1909)
* [[Author:Henry Lawrence Swinburne|Swinburne, H. Lawrence]] (1857–1909)
* [[Author:John Castleman Swinburne-Hanham|Swinburne-Hanham, John Castleman]] (1860–1935)
* [[Author:Robert Blair Swinton|Swinton, Robert Blair]] (1829–1912)

==Sy==
* [[Author:Lev Sychrava|Sychrava, Lev]] (1887–1958)
* [[Author:Oskar von Sydow|Sydow, Oskar von]] (1811–1886)
* [[Author:Ernest William Sykes|Sykes, Ernest William]] (1870–1958)
* [[Author:William Sykes (1827-1891)|Sykes, William]] (1827–1891)
* [[Author:Sylvester II|Sylvester II, Pope]] (946–1003)
* [[Author:James Joseph Sylvester|Sylvester, James Joseph]] (1814–1897)
* [[Author:Andrew James Symington|Symington, Andrew James]] (1826–1898)
* [[Author:Charles Symmons|Symmons, Charles]] (1749–1826)
* [[Author:John Addington Symonds (1807-1871)|Symonds, John Addington]] (1807–1871)
* [[Author:John Addington Symonds (1840-1893)|Symonds, John Addington]] (1840–1893)
* [[Author:William Law Symonds|Symonds, William Law]] (1833–1862)
* [[Author:William Samuel Symonds|Symonds, William Samuel]] (1818–1887)
* [[Author:Arthur Symons|Symons, Arthur]] (1865–1945)
* [[Author:Henry Symons|Symons, Henry]] (1871–1922)
* [[Author:Jelinger Cookson Symons|Symons, Jelinger Cookson]] (1809–1860)
* [[Author:Thomas William Symons|Symons, Thomas William]] (1849–1920)
* [[Author:Edward Synge|Synge, Edward]] (1691–1762)
* [[Author:John Millington Synge|Synge, John Millington]] (1871–1909)
* [[Author:Syrianus|Syrianus]] (?–c. 437)

==Sz==
* [[Author:Rafael De Szalatnay|Szalatnay, Rafael De]] (1884–1963)
* [[Author:Karol Szymanowski|Szymanowski, Karol]] (1882–1937)</text>
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== [[Index:The ideal lovibond color system for C I E standard illuminants A and C shown in three colorimetric systems (IA ideallovibondcol716haup).pdf]] ==

Derived from data in a previous paper whose author was not a Federal employee, This is a derived work. The prvevious paper has been 
proposed for deletion at Commons, on the same basis.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:38, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:Did you mean to label these as [[WS:CV]] instead? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:09, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:Nothing found in the CCE for this paper.  (The issue here is the contribution of a specific Non-Federal author, in the earlier paper) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:57, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:I've withdrawn both of the Commons DR's, having not been able to locate this in either of 3 relevant catalog systems. This was clearly a US publication, and as far as I can tell there isn't a notice on it. This may make the concern that prompted my concern above an issue that can be handled in a different way.  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:34, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

:However, not all NBS/NIST datasets are under PD-US-Gov terms. So this discussion should remain open. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:02, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:A Bibliography of Parliamentary Debates (1956).pdf]] ==

Started in good faith, but I can't actually find anything in the Document to say it's actually crown copyright, rather than merely just having the HMSO imprint. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:04, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]: I have moved these 4 discussions to [[WS:CV]] from [[WS:PD]]. Copyright issues should be discussed here. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:13, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
::It doesn't need to claim anything in the document. The 1911 act defined it as: &quot;where any work has, whether before or after the commencement of this Act, been prepared or published by or under the direction or control of His Majesty or any Government department,&quot; This states &quot;House of Commons Document&quot;, and the foreword (by the House of Commons Librarian, Strathearn Gordon) says &quot;done by Dr. John A. Woods when he was attached to the Library of the House of Commons.&quot;  This is similar to US government works, we don't ''require'' a copyright statement that it is a US government work for it to be a US government work, if it is published by a US government employee by a US government agency / department etc. {{keep}}. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 19:40, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
: There is a parallel discussion concerning the File: at Commons BTW [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Constitution of Syria (1950)]] ==

Sourced from https://www.worldstatesmen.org/Syria-constitution1950.txt, no sign of the translation being in the public domain. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:56, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:Source seems to be https://archive.org/details/constitutionsele0000unse/page/401 (published in 1953, 1947 ed. registration A10614, 1953 registration A89061). I don't see evidence for renewal on a quick check. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 20:25, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Constitution of Romania (1866)]] ==

Copypasted from https://www.royalhouseofromaniahohenzollern-sigmaringen.com/constitution-1866, there is no sign of the English translation being in the public domain. [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:08, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Constitution of Romania (1923)]] ==

Sourced from https://www.royalhouseofromaniahohenzollern-sigmaringen.com/text-constitution-of-1923, there is no sign of the English translation being in the public domain. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:14, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Constitution of the Republic of Turkey (1961)]] ==

Sourced from https://www.jstor.org/stable/20832714, but no sign of the English translation being in the public domain again. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:00, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:Which is actually sourced from: https://www.jstor.org/stable/25814482 which lists as a source a publication in Ankara, Turkey by Sadik Balkan, Ahmet E. Uysal, and Kemal H. Karpal. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 19:52, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::This can be viewed here: https://www.anayasa.gen.tr/1961constitution.htm which lists permission granted by email. Without being able to see the email, I don't know what terms are applied. {{vd}} [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 19:59, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Thanks for finding this. It seems that the email permitted it just to be reproduced at the site, it most probably did not release it into public domain or under some specific free licence. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:20, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Journal of the Optical Society of America, volume 33, number 7.pdf]] ==

And companion  [[:Index:Journal of the Optical Society of America, volume 30, number 12.pdf]].

I am placing these here because, I recently asked both Hathi and Google to review the access to other related volumes on the basis of the non-renewal. However the response was negative as to opening access to this, suggesting that there is additional information about the status of these volumes which the Online Books page of the Catalog of Copyright Entries does not record. 

As far as could be determined when these were provided in good faith, there was no copyright, All three of the major scan archives now seem to apparently think there are reasons why post 1929 volumes of this Journal cannot be made generally available (IA as for example restricted this volume despite the non renewal.)  Perhaps someone would like to definitively determine if this was in fact renewed, as I'd be extremely annoyed if I wasted my time on the basis of incomplete metadata at the source. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 00:49, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

: https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/cinfo/jopticalsocamerica says that pre-1950 volumes should be safe. I don't think there's any perfect way, but I wouldn't worry about it.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 02:43, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

: Yes and that was the data alongside checks of the Catalog of Copyright Entries scans at Google/IA, at initial upload, I also can't find records to the 1930-1950 volumes on copyright.gov.  However, that doesn't preclude a 'late' renewal post 1978, the record of which hasn't yet shown up in the online databases.  Hmm...
:[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:55, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:: There should be no post-1978 renewal of a 1943 work. It's 28 years, and no matter how you cut the edges, that's too much of a difference.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:33, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
: You are also more than welcome to approach the major archive sites, with a carefully worded comment about the haphazzard nature of some of their curation practices! [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:58, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

: I've now flagged the entire Issue which was transcribed here (and in error marked as no-notice, when this clearly should have marked as non-renewal. ) as copyvio.
*[[Journal of the Optical Society of America/Volume 30/Issue 12/Proceedings of the Twenty-Fifth Annual Meeting]]
*[[Journal of the Optical Society of America/Volume 30/Issue 12/Spacing of the Munsell Colors]]
*[[Journal of the Optical Society of America/Volume 30/Issue 12/Trichromatic Analysis]]
*[[Journal_of_the_Optical_Society_of_America/Volume_30/Issue_12/Analysis_of_the_Munsell_Color_System]]
*[[Journal_of_the_Optical_Society_of_America/Volume_30/Issue_12/History_of_the_Munsell_Color_System]]
*[[Journal_of_the_Optical_Society_of_America/Volume_30/Issue_12/Editorial_Comment]]
*[[Journal of the Optical Society of America/Volume 30/Issue 12/Author Index]]
*[[Journal_of_the_Optical_Society_of_America/Volume_30/Issue_12]]
*[[Journal_of_the_Optical_Society_of_America/Volume_30]]

Perhaps a contributor more experienced in the nuances would be willing to make a determination of the actual status, and provide direct scans of the original printed issues and volume in content, which IA has now restricted, despite originally uploading it in good faith. 

Sometimes it's simply not worth the effort, when there are countless other clearly public domain works from the 19th century and earlier that Wikisource still doesn't have. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 07:59, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
: Parallel disccusions for the Commons files :
:* [[c:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Journal of the Optical Society of America, volume 33, number 7.pdf]]
:* [[c:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Journal of the Optical Society of America, volume 30, number 12.pdf]]
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:09, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

:: I still can't find the renewal(s), I can't even at this stage find the original registrations. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:50, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

::: Conclusion : &quot;Agressive&quot; publisher , as I've gone through the Virtual Card catalog with numerous permutations. Perhaps some here would like to clean up this train-wreck? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 10:39, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Executive Committee of the Communist International Manifesto On China]] ==

The linked source was published in 1960. That means the introductory text is likely copyrighted unless it came from an original publication. Presumably the text was published in English in a Communist International publication in the 1920s but it would be good to check. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:28, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

:I found it https://archive.org/details/per_daily-worker_1924-09-24_2_159/mode/1up [[User:MoAiSang|MoAiSang]] ([[User talk:MoAiSang|talk]]) 07:47, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:: It's not the same text, exactly. Probably another translation of a same text. Examples:
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot;
! ws page !! that article
|-
| The British Government, led by the Labour Party
| The British Government, a government put into power by a Labour Party
|-
| Before the eyes of the world and the international revolutionary workers' movement
| Before the eyes of the whole world and in opposition to the desires of the international revolutionary labour movement
|}
:: — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:38, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Updated with the version of Daily Worker [[User:MoAiSang|MoAiSang]] ([[User talk:MoAiSang|talk]]) 17:14, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Well then, given that new current version of our text was extracted from a 1924 newspaper, which is {{tl|PD-US}}, that's a {{keep}} for me. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:47, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{keep}} as my concerns have been addressed. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 19:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:A Phonetical Study of the Eskimo Language by William Thalbitzer.pdf]] ==

Parallel discussion: [[Commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/File:A_Phonetical_Study_of_the_Eskimo_Language_by_William_Thalbitzer.pdf]]
This originates from a danish orginal, the author Danish died in 1958.  It may well be PD-US in case the file should be localised, as it shouldn't be on Commons, given the status of the Danish original. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:31, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' This is certainly in the public domain in the United States (published 1904), so it should be moved here if it is deleted elsewhere. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:24, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Pattern Drafting And Grading (1961).djvu]] ==

Checking back on something I no longer have confidence in the meta-data IA provided, or in this not having been renewed. 

Doing some recent searches, I've found a near identical work attributed through to an edition in 1968 (reprinted in 1981 according to Hathi).   (https://openlibrary.org/books/OL14242686M/Pattern_drafting_and_grading) for which a copyright exists in the relevant records (the earliest noted edition is 1938.)  Given this I no longer have confidence in this not having been renewed although I can't find any renewals in respect of a 1961 or earlier editions, in the Catalog of Copyright Entries.   The IA version include supplements which are undated. 

Frustrating, but the solution is to delete and stat again with a scan that has clear provenance, which the IA one doesn't, given that it, it names a Micheal Rohr as author, which cannot be determined from the work itself. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 20:44, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' Given that ''this'' edition is from 1961, and that there is no renewal, then it can be presumed that it is in the public domain. I also don’t think that there is sufficient circumstantial evidence to doubt the veracity of the scan, either, and while I’m at it, no copyright notice which applies to the whole of the work (just one notice, dated 1961, on a supplemental part). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:24, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: &lt;s&gt;I checked for the earlier late 30's versions, with no renewal showing up in the searches I did.  Worldcat also mentions a revised 1950 (presumably a version that was revised prior to the 1961 edition), I've been unable to locate.  If the earlier versions were not in copyright either.. then given the fahsion and costume changes between the late 30's and early 60's, there is potential scope for including the earlier editions, assuming we can 'prove' the licensing.&lt;/s&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:22, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: &lt;s&gt;Checked 1960,1961,1962 for an original registration. By author surname and title, and hadn't found it yet. Perhaps you can do parallel searches to check I'm not missing something?&lt;/s&gt;[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:50, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: This was WILL have to be deleted - Per comments here https://forum.seamly.io/t/a-1961-pattern-system-from-archive-org/7896/16. If the original holder does want to keep the legacy available, they would have to fully the VTRS or donation procedures that are in place. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:22, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:: Why? I haven't been involved in checking this one, but it shouldn't matter how pushy the author is, if it's out of copyright in the US, it's out of the copyright in the US. The WMF is pretty good at blocking invalid DMCA claims.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 06:42, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

::: If you want to do an exhaustive search of all the relevant catalogs, I am not stopping you, but based on the current information, I have no confidence in this being under a 'free' license, or expired. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:48, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;This is now REALLY confusing - [[Page:Pattern Drafting And Grading (1961).djvu/153]] says 1961, but mentions two items for which I can only find entries for editions in 1967 and 1968 respectively. (If those mentioned items are earlier editions of those that were  seemingly not registered, there's no easy to show that. This to me suggests this might be a scan of a later edition, and the &quot;title&quot; (or other pages) were not updated from a 1961 or intermediate printing, with the &quot;Supplments&quot; having other dates from the main work. &lt;/s&gt;[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:54, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::*[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]: I agree with Prosfilaes: there is no evidence of potential copyright, so there is no need to search through the ''CCE''. As for the two works mentioned, the ''Women’s and Misses’'' book was published before 1957, and ''Children’s Garment Design'' at least by 1951; I don’t know where you got your 1960s dates from, but those two publications, at least, predate 1961. Even if this ''was'' a post-1961 reprint, it wouldn’t matter in terms of additional copyrights because there is no post-1961 copyright notice (and a notice was required at the time). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: The 1967 and 1968 works were tile I found in the CCE/Card Catalog, and I'll be generous, and perhaps consider I am confused by simillar sounding titles or later editions. So in summary:
* 1961 work with visble notice
* No apparent renewal found, 
* Possibly later editions being revised all the way to a 1981 printing (according to Hathi)  I'm going to let the discussion run on the basis of the forum thread linked. 
:::: I'm going to leave this discussion open, even if the consensus forming, seems to be different from mine. Commenters here might also want to consider the parallel discussion at Commons about the File: [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:14, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[:Index:A Beginners First Course In Cutting.djvu]] ==

I won't tag the file, but this lists a second author J.T. Iley that I've not been able to identify, in terms of date. The concern is that their contribution means the status of this is undetermined, and I could not narrow it down further with FreeBMD. At the very least the file should be made local as it pre-dates 1930. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 07:50, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

: Also the 1900 date, looks like an IA generic date, as the actual one couldn't be identified.  This cannot be later than the late 1920's, given Vincent's lifetime though, so just scrapes in as a pre 1930 work. (So could be hosted locally if Commons deleted it.). [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== File:Bengal Fairy Tales.djvu ==


The file is [[:File:Bengal Fairy Tales.djvu]], File is currently on Commons, However, the author (British) died in 1963, meaning it perhaps should be hosted locally, unless this can be treated as US editon, it is pre 1930 so does this qualify as 'simultaneous' between the US and UK printings?.  Hmm...
*'''Keep.''' It was simultaneously published in the United States, where it is in the public domain. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:'''Withdrawn'''  Simultaneous publication [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Index:The University Hymn Book.djvu ==
[[Index:The University Hymn Book.djvu]] The issue (and I appreciate this work was discussed previously) is that one of the contributors (Canadian) died in 1973, The cut off Canadian works (at 50 pma) is a 1972 death. Canadian terms were extended to 70pma) in 2022. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The file has already been localized, so this discussion is irrelevant. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: '''Withdrawn''' although I converted {{tl|missing score}} to {{tl|text removed}}, which solved the issue for me. You can revert if you wish, but I was being pragmatic. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:39, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Index:A contribution to computer typesetting techniques - tables of coordinates for Hershey's repertory of occidental type fonts and graphic symbols (IA contributiontoco424wolc).pdf ==

Files: -
[[Index:A contribution to computer typesetting techniques - tables of coordinates for Hershey's repertory of occidental type fonts and graphic symbols (IA contributiontoco424wolc).pdf]]
[[Index:FORTRAN IV enhanced character graphics (IA fortranivenhance5003wolc).pdf]]
and related pages. 

Given a specifc authors role at NIST/NBS is this actually Standard Reference Data (and thus in copyright) per the narrow exception to PD-US-Gov terms mentioned elsewhere? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:21, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' Neither of these works has a copyright notice, so they are both &lt;code&gt;PD-US-no-notice&lt;/code&gt;. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:27, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

: I could not find anything in the CCE records either, but like to be sure I didn't miss something. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 16:03, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

: I would assume that Standard Reference Data would need a copyright notice, but to quote a 1986 Usenet post, &quot;Hershey Fonts, Part 1 of 5&quot; by Peter Holzmann:
&lt;pre&gt;This distribution is made possible through the collective encouragement
of the Usenet Font Consortium, a mailing list that sprang to life to get
this accomplished and that will now most likely disappear into the mists
of time... Thanks are especially due to Jim Hurt, who provided the packed
font data for the distribution, along with a lot of other help.

This file describes the Hershey Fonts in general, along with a description of
the other files in this distribution and a simple re-distribution restriction.

USE RESTRICTION:
	This distribution of the Hershey Fonts may be used by anyone for
	any purpose, commercial or otherwise, providing that:
		1. The following acknowledgements must be distributed with
			the font data:
			- The Hershey Fonts were originally created by Dr.
				A. V. Hershey while working at the U. S.
				National Bureau of Standards.
			- The format of the Font data in this distribution
				was originally created by
					James Hurt
					Cognition, Inc.
					900 Technology Park Drive
					Billerica, MA 01821
					(mit-eddie!ci-dandelion!hurt)
		2. The font data in this distribution may be converted into
			any other format *EXCEPT* the format distributed by
			the U.S. NTIS (which organization holds the rights
			to the distribution and use of the font data in that
			particular format). Not that anybody would really
			*want* to use their format... each point is described
			in eight bytes as &quot;xxx yyy:&quot;, where xxx and yyy are
			the coordinate values as ASCII numbers.

&lt;nowiki&gt;*PLEASE*&lt;/nowiki&gt; be reassured: The legal implications of NTIS' attempt to control
a particular form of the Hershey Fonts *are* troubling. HOWEVER: We have
been endlessly and repeatedly assured by NTIS that they do not care what
we do with our version of the font data, they do not want to know about it,
they understand that we are distributing this information all over the world,
etc etc etc... but because it isn't in their *exact* distribution format, they
just don't care!!! So go ahead and use the data with a clear conscience! (If
you feel bad about it, take a smaller deduction for something on your taxes
next week...)

The Hershey Fonts:
	- are a set of more than 2000 glyph (symbol) descriptions in vector 
		( &lt;x,y&gt; point-to-point ) format
	- can be grouped as almost 20 'occidental' (english, greek,
		cyrillic) fonts, 3 or more 'oriental' (Kanji, Hiragana,
		and Katakana) fonts, and a few hundred miscellaneous
		symbols (mathematical, musical, cartographic, etc etc)
	- are suitable for typographic quality output on a vector device
		(such as a plotter) when used at an appropriate scale.
	- were digitized by Dr. A. V. Hershey while working for the U.S.
		Government National Bureau of Standards (NBS).
	- are in the public domain, with a few caveats:
		- They are available from NTIS (National Technical Info.
			Service) in a computer-readable from which is *not*
			in the public domain. This format is described in
			a hardcopy publication &quot;Tables of Coordinates for
			Hershey's Repertory of Occidental Type Fonts and
			Graphic Symbols&quot; available from NTIS for less than
			$20 US (phone number +1 703 487 4763).
		- NTIS does not care about and doesn't want to know about
			what happens to Hershey Font data that is not
			distributed in their exact format.
		- This distribution is not in the NTIS format, and thus is
			only subject to the simple restriction described
			at the top of this file.

Hard Copy samples of the Hershey Fonts are best obtained by purchasing the
book described above from NTIS. It contains a sample of all of the Occidental
symbols (but none of the Oriental symbols).&lt;/pre&gt;

: --[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 18:36, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

: So even though it doesn't actually say it in the file, it's not unrestricted. '''Delete''', given that the problematic section cannot be detached from the core document. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 20:08, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|ShakespeareFan00|Prosfilaes}} '''Keep'''. Standard Reference Data does need a copyright notice. Per [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/290e], it says {{tqi|the Secretary '''may''' secure copyright and renewal thereof on behalf of the United States as author or proprietor in all or any part of any standard reference data}}. This implies that copyright is not assigned by default, but reserved. This agrees with the [https://www.nist.gov/open/copyright-fair-use-and-licensing-statements-srd-data-software-and-technical-series-publications NIST help page] on this topic. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 20:39, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Matrix}} So what to do? Clearly in 1986, NIST(Or NTIS) did not want 'free' distribution of their specific format(and the specfic NTIS computer 'tape') (which the print publication would seem to transcribe in print form.). That 1986 caveat should be respected, after all I would understand why they NIST (NBS formerly) or NIIS, as a scientific publisher in this instance, would not want to have to deal with transcriptions that are inaccurate at best, or worse maliciously altered, an issue of dataset integrity, which for a scientific or standards agency is entirely justified. Blanking the tables, or using an alternative updated format, would not at least to me be an accurate transcription, and thus defeats the rationale for the documents inclusion irrespective of the actual status. Voting '''Delete'' on that basis.
(The same argument also applies in relation to a previous discussion above concerning a different dataset.)
 
And to be &quot;really sure&quot; - [[Index:Calligraphy for computers (Hershey, 1967) (IA DTIC AD0662398).djvu]] should be rexamined as well, given that the above discussion even calls into question the status of the original.  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 20:50, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

:Also : [[Index:NBS Technical Note 11176 (1983) (IAutilityprogramsf1176dick).djvu]] (from 1983). which although an NBS publication, is post 1978 and the the need to have outright notices. It does however still have the agency imprints. '''Delete all 4''' due to the confused status. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:12, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

: It's a shame to '''delete''' &lt;rant tone=&quot;polite&quot;&gt;but this is why datasets (including government held one's)  need clearly stated licenses, instead of the general &quot;It's 'Federal' so don't stress presumption.&quot; &lt;/rant&gt;
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:23, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

:I may reconsider, if a solution avoiding the 'problem' format can be found.. Otherwise I still hold to a '''Delete''' position. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:42, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
::I think it is pretty clear that none of these are Standard Reference Data:
::1. Per the definition until 2017: &quot;The term `standard reference data' means quantitative information, related to a measurable physical or chemical property of a substance or system of substances of known composition and structure&quot; Computer fonts are removed from the &quot;physical or chemical property of a substance&quot;
::2 If it is was SRD it would have been published in the National Standard Reference Data System, e.g. https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/NSRDS/nbsnsrds2.pdf or labeled as SRD
::3. The number of SRD is quite low, 116 per https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/SpecialPublications/NIST.SP.1223.pdf in 2018, with 1 in the Information Technology Lab and 1 in in the Engineering Lab.
::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:48, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::I would think that the only thing that might be of concern is Appendix A, of [[Index:A contribution to computer typesetting techniques - tables of coordinates for Hershey's repertory of occidental type fonts and graphic symbols (IA contributiontoco424wolc).pdf]] in that '''exact''' format, per the usenet thread above. Note that https://github.com/usnistgov/dataplot/tree/master for example contains these fonts in Fortran format. Given it is an Appendix, I think it should be relatively straightforward to strip out. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:26, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: In it's current form this has to go, (along with the Commons file, If someone then substitutes a redacted version, fair enough.  I don't have the editing tools for PDF to do this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 07:33, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::*MarkLSteadman, ShakespeareFan00: I have the ability to redact the appendix, but I don’t see why it’s necessary. Isn’t the appendix a part of the whole technical note? Why would it have a separate copyright status? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:44, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::*:Here is a simple version with it simply removed entirely: [[:File:A contribution to computer typesetting techniques tables of coordinates for Hershey's repertory of occidental type fonts and graphic symbols - redacted.pdf]]. My take:
::*:1. Per the original question, none of these works are Standard Reference Data and should be {{vk}} absent some other concern raised. 
::*:2. The only other concern was raised specifically about the single case outlined above, which only covers Appendix A. It sounds like there might be some claim based on https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/dashboard/searchResults/titleDetail/PB263925.xhtml by Robert Thompson which does mention the Office of Standard Reference Data. So only this file might have been published as Standard Reference Data and hence the licensing claim in this particular format. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 14:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|MarkLSteadman}}  &lt;s&gt;'''Move pages''' (the safe ones anyway to the redacted version. It solves the issue, irrespective of the actual status. of Appendix A.&lt;/s&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)?
:&lt;s&gt; A redacted version exists, The pages (other than Appendix A) can be migrated. Once migrated the original Index and Appendix A pages can be deleted, which resolves this, and this discussion can be concluded. (Aside, It would be nice if someone was able to find a 'free' version of the Hershey fonts, to replace the infile diagrams with SVG longer term.) &lt;/s&gt;  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:16, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]: I’m still not sure what the issue with the Hershey font is: after all, fonts can’t be copyrighted, so there should be no protection on them at all. I also '''oppose''' redacting and replacing the file unless there is consensus that there ''is'' some restriction on Appendix A. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 17:22, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (tldr summary) - The concern is that Appendix A, is in content and presentation thereof in a format over which rights were apparently asserted in 1986.( The format potentially being that also on a master tape, representing a digital version, of the data.). Where there is a reasonable doubt as to something being 'free', Wikisource has generally redacted or removed portions of documents it can't definitively pin down the status of.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 17:42, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::*I don’t want to rely on a 1985 Usenet post which rather vaguely describes what rights are being asserted, but in any case that appears to be a non-copyright usage restriction, which we do not honor, so this should be '''kept'''. In any case, it is not at all clear what rights even could be asserted. They seem to claim a right in the specific format in which the Hershey font was stored. This could imply a patent as to that specific method of storage, but that wouldn’t prevent people from using the results of that method (the results, in this case, being the Hershey font). There can’t be a copyright interest, either, because the font itself can’t be copyrighted and the underlying data going to produce that font isn’t copyrightable. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 18:36, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::*:As I mentioned, my understanding of the issue is that https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/dashboard/searchResults/titleDetail/PB263925.xhtml is both standard reference data (and hence has the copyrightable exemption by NIST) and computer software implementing the font (and hence copyrightable as computer software rather than a typeface). If so Appendix A would be a reproduction of the copyrighted software, per the link: &quot;The first file contains tables of coordinates which make it possible to generate 1377 different alphabetic and graphic characters on either COM devices or on digital plotters. ... The tables are those published in NTIS documentation PB-251 845 entitled: 'A Contribution to Computer Typesetting Techniques: Tables of Coordinates for Hershey's Repertory of Occidental Type Fonts and Graphic Symbols.'&quot; That argument would align with the Usenet post description, without relying on it. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 20:59, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:::: By that logic, I say all the Appendix are potential problem (given that they are ultimately output using the software), and thus there isn't anything left in the file that can be usefully or reasonably included. '''Delete all''' Index, pages and the other items listed. [[Commons:COM:PCP]] applies. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::No, the output isn't. The content on Wikisource isn't copyrighted because I am typing it on Firefox (copyrighted) and it is hosted on Linux (copyrighted), by wiki software (copyrighted) etc. In fact by defintion if it is generated by software, it cannot be copyrighted because it lacks human authorship. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:07, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::And as mentioned typefaces as typefaces aren't copyrighted. We don't say a government work is copyrighted because it uses say Times New Roman (invented in the UK in 1931) from Word etc. A PDF of a page of text set Word in Times New Roman isn't copyrighted by Monotype, Adobe, and Microsoft even if it merely repeats a type specimen, A, B, C, etc.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:15, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::: Hmm... I no longer understand enough to continue in this discussion. Perhaps other can thrash out what if anything is actually the problem? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:36, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Maybe this helps. When Doyle wrote Sherlock Holmes, he received copyright on both the exact words in the book and the &quot;character&quot; of Sherlock Holmes, which covers the idea or usage. If I then use the character of Sherlock Holmes in my own story, I would infringe on Doyle's copyright (while it lasts). Now since Holmes is in the PD, I can add an illustration of Holmes as an appendix and secure copyright on that. That doesn't mean I can sue anyone else who decides to illustrate Holmes, only if there version infringes on my particular image. That might contain it's own distinctive ideas (e.g. the look of his cap and pipe, his mustache, etc). If someone copies those elements their might by trouble.
::::::::If I write a computer program to generate a typeface, it's more limited, I only get copyright on the exact program code, I don't get a copyright on the &quot;idea&quot;. The idea is that there is enough creative decision making in the manual writing of a particular program to merit copyrightable. For a typeface, I can't copyright a particular shape of r and claim it is &quot;mine.&quot; If someone uses that program to make a page of text, I don't get a copyright on the image of the page produced because it contains my &quot;special r.&quot; And if someone then decides to write their own program to reproduce the text, they can do so. There isn't anything magic about the fact that a computer program is runnable. The only derived works would be derived from the program code, nothing else. 
::::::::So in this situation, the question is whether someone secured copyright on that particular program before it was published as an appendix (and hence they lost the copyright as publication without notice). Having that copyright is completely irrelevant to anything else besides that particular program. There is good reason to be skeptical that NIST actual bothered to go through the process, but it is conceivable the bothered to publish the software with proper copyright (under the SRD exemption).
::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:27, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Thank you for that example, and explanation. How to 'find' the specifc computer software copyright (if it exists though.) Hmm..
: Digital data can be subject to copyright, and where I am based font's can be copyright, but this is US work.. hmm.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:29, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

== Index:NBS_Technical_Note_11176_(1983)_(IAutilityprogramsf1176dick).djvu ==

Adding this as I no longer have confidence in this being under the licence concerned, 
the concern is the attached computer program. Transcribed in good faith based on
information available to me at the time. Subsequent discussions have suggested that
this might not be unrestricted as thought. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:51, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' I don’t see why the computer programs would be under a different license than the technical note itself, given that there is no copyright notice anywhere in the document. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:44, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
: Computer code can have a different copyright from the containing work. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 16:07, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]: It is true, of course, that it ''can'' have a different copyright; but why would ''this'' code in ''this'' document have a different copyright? There is no evidence of it here. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 17:22, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{vk}} While true that the program (like anything else incorporated as an appendix) could have a pre-existing copyright from a different publication, there is no indication that is the case in this situation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 14:31, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Gun Violence in the United States: Truth and Facts]] ==

This is marked PD-CN - but is it also public domain in the US ? (I am not marking this as copyvio at the moment, waiting for comments). -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:39, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:Looks like a pretty clear {{tl|PD-EdictGov}} to me? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:59, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
*I have seen many of these around; I have always interpreted the language as a general prohibition on the enforcement of the copyright on behalf of the Chinese government, although I suppose we don’t have VRT documentation of that. In any case, it is ''not'' &lt;code&gt;PD-EdictGov&lt;/code&gt;—this publication originates in the executive, while &lt;code&gt;PD-EdictGov&lt;/code&gt; only covers the judicial and the legislative. It is analogous to &lt;code&gt;PD-USGov&lt;/code&gt;, but because this is not a U.S. government document, 17 U.S.C. 105 doesn’t apply. So, in theory, China could enforce its copyright in this report in the United States, but not in China. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 17:22, 10 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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== We don't take excerpts:  ==
Okay, I have had enough of tidying up your edits that do not comply to the [[Wikisource:Style guide]] and its associated pages, and your continued approach to blithely continue outside of the guidance for additions. You are blocked and we will continue the conversation on this page until I hear that you understand that this site is about generating a quality product, not some slipshod convenience to you, that it is has guidelines and they will be followed unless there is an exceptional reason to step outside the guidance.

I know that you don't like that I am removing components from your edits, however, this site has a strong culture of [[Help:patrolling|patrolling]] and it is an expectation that we get the style right, and you seem point blank not wishing to apply our standard. Patrolling is part of that and it is about getting pages to our style. You have addressed your questions to the most experienced users at this site and they have all supported the continuance of the guidance.

Detail
* No excerpts. This is clearly stated in [[WS:WWI]]. You have been instructed, you have pages moved back to your subpages for completion and our standard will be maintained. If you do not wish to complete the typing on an article, then that is fine, don't add it until is is complete. No more '''...''' in the middle of an article, and such pages will be deleted as they are out of scope.
* No more place name linking. We do not do it by general practice and it would take a strong exception to do it. We do not take our user for fools, and we believe that they can read and comprehend placenames or look them up. A link from an old work to a modern encyclopaedia is generally not pertinent to our works.  We don't not interpret works and links that we add have to add value to specifically comprehend the work. If we did what you are doing in these pieces with our biographical works, eg. [[DNB]], [[EB1911]], they would be butt ugly. So we maintain minimal linking. If you had cared to read the previous discussions you would comprehend this, instead you just persist with an argument that the guidance doesn't address removal. Okay, don't add them and they won't need to be removed.
* Style in headers. The notes field is not for the styling of articles that you have added, and you have not paid heed to the repeated edits you would amend your additions. We have developed a style for linking in headers and it has been explained to you.

So where are we going from here? — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 14:29, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

'''* Resolution: Enforcing their personal preferences as if Wikilaw. The excerpts were accepted, since an encyclopedia entry can be read to completion, and a news article can be read to completion. The linking to Wikidata was also accepted for locations. There are a dozen places named Washington and we need to know if the entry is referring to Moscow, Texas or Moscow, Russia. I still have no idea what &quot;styling of articles in headers&quot; meant.''' --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )#top|talk]]) 06:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

== Moved out of scope works to user namespace ==

Hi. I see that we are again going to go around this roundabout again. Personal letters from non-notable people are not within scope with Wikisource, per [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]]. I have moved the works to your user namespace. I will also point you to [[Wikisource:Wikilinks]] and the remind you of the recent discussion that you initiated in [[WS:AN]] about descriptions.  The only person doing this sort of thing, especially repeatedly, is you.
:: Again, see above, you are enforcing your personal preferences as if they were !Wikilaw. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )#top|talk]]) 21:35, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
Are these your ancestors or relatives? — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 20:49, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

'''* Resolution:  Again enforcing their personal preferences. The letter was accepted and more letters transcribed by other contributors. Wikilinks have also been accepted based on my lobbying effort.''' --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )#top|talk]]) 06:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

== Links ==

Hi RAN,

cf. [[Special:Diff/14382986|this edit]]. When linking to something other than local author pages or another text in mainspace, please use the {{tl|wdl}} template rather than raw interwiki links. The template will automatically start linking to a local author page if one is created later, and by going by way of the template the community can decide over time what are the acceptable linking destinations. The syntax is almost the same as a wikilink: {{tlx|wdl|Q128406748|Carl Schneider}} produces {{wdl|Q128406748|Carl Schneider}}. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 16:43, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
* Got it, thanks. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )#top|talk]]) 17:20, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

== Surname categories ==

These categories need re-thinking as they are parented incorrectly. They seem to contain portals only, but they are in a mainspace category, which is for works. While I get your reasoning for creating them, I'm not convinced this is the best solution to the issue. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 06:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
* They seem straight forward to me and they work. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )#top|talk]]) 06:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

== symbols ==

For whatever reason, I did not like being told to move my personal notes into the main space.  The functioning templates, yes; my notes no.  And they asked nicely that the functioning templates be moved, so there is that also.

I ignored the rest of that thread because you or anyone is perfectly free to copy and paste my [[User:RaboKarbakian/Symbols|Symbols]] to (almost) where ever they want it.

It would be nice to have a repository or gallery page filled with that stuff.

Just an example of well, crap isn't the right word but some word that is better, that has happened here through out the years.  They found this in a markup clean up and it cracked me up!  Maybe you will enjoy it [[Talk:St. Nicholas/Volume 32/Number 4/Miracle]]--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
* I see we both have conflict with the same person who was using their personal preferences as if it were Wikilaw. My philosophy is that we are still in the experimental stage and the person doing the work should be allowed to experiment. Once every book and news article has been transcribed, then we can worry about the small details. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )#top|talk]]) 18:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

== Surname cats linking ==

That's working and done, right?

Just to be sure, as I saw the note on your page. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:33, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Sorry I was sick with the flu for a week, so have not been paying attention. Last I checked the surnames were linking perfectly. You did an amazing job. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )#top|talk]]) 02:47, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[News-Journal]] ==

The description said the newspaper was from [[Portal:Rochester, New York|Rochester, New York]], but it was in [[:Category:Daytona Beach, Florida]] (which is right now a red link). The 1980s article supports the NY theory, but the 1960s one looks Floridian. But also, the Wikidata item links to a Wikipedia article for the Rochester newspaper called the ''Democrat and Chronicle'', which appears to have never been called the ''News-Journal''. Could there be two ''News-Journals'' that are being mixed up here, or was this the result of a copy-paste error? I'm a bit confused by all of this. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 03:47, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

== Town portals to host newspapers headquartered in those towns ==

Hi, just a reminder that I've now made a pretty exhaustive amount of portals for US towns and cities. Just search for a city and state, and it should usually come up now (they were made to fill navboxes like {{tl|New Jersey}}). So, I would strongly recommend putting newspapers into town and city portals they're associated with. For example, I moved ''[[The Bayonne Times]]'' into [[Portal:Bayonne, New Jersey]]. These town portals desperately need as much population as possible to justify their existence, so additions of your content to the portals would be strongly appreciated. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 19:39, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

* {{ping|SnowyCinema}} Do you think the years should be next to the newspaper name? Jersey Journal (1867- ) --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )#top|talk]]) 20:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Yes, that's preferable when known. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 13:27, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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    <title>Author:Ernest Miller Hemingway</title>
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      <text bytes="3076" sha1="2vzmsl4uk461pk0ole0j5plm071uwix" xml:space="preserve">{{author
 | firstname    = Ernest Miller
 | lastname     = Hemingway
 | last_initial = He
 | description  = American novelist, short story writer, and journalist. His distinctive writing style is characterized by terse minimalism and understatement and had a significant influence on the development of twentieth century fiction. Hemingway's protagonists are typically stoics, often seen as projections of his own character—men who must show &quot;grace under pressure.&quot; Many of his works are now considered classics in the canon of American literature. He received the Pulitzer Prize in 1953 for ''The Old Man and the Sea'', and the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1954.
}}

==Works==

===Short stories===
* [[In Our Time]]
* [[Men Without Women]] (1927)
*: [[Men Without Women/Che Ti Dice La Patria?|&quot;Italy, 1927&quot; aka. &quot;Che Ti Dice La Patria?&quot;]]

===Novels===
* ''[[The Torrents of Spring (1987)|The Torrents of Spring]]'' (1926) [1987 Reprint]
* ''[[The Sun Also Rises]]'' (1926) [1954 Reprint]
* {{copyright-until|A Farewell to Arms|pubyear=1929|until=2025|renewal=R177406}}
* {{copyright-until|To Have and Have Not|pubyear=1937|until=2033|renewal=R349056}}
* {{copyright-until|For Whom the Bell Tolls|pubyear=1940|until=2036|renewal=R420407}}
* {{copyright-until|The Old Man and the Sea|pubyear=1952|until=2048}}&lt;!-- RE0000052130 / 1980-01-22 / Mary Hemingway (W) --&gt;

===Poems===
*[[Ultimately]], 1922

===Newspaper articles===
*Articles written for the Kansas City Star
:*[[Kerensky, The Fighting Flea]]
:*[[Battle of Raid Squads]]
:*[[At the End of the Ambulance Run]]
:*[[Throng at Smallpox Case]]
:*[[Laundry Car over Cliff]]
:*[[Six Men Become Tankers]]
:*[[Big Day for Navy Drive]]
:*[[Navy Desk Jobs to Go]]
:*[[Would 'Treat 'em Rough']]
:*[[Recruits for the Tanks]]
:*[[Daredevil Joins Tanks]]
:*[[Mix War, Art and Dancing]]

*Articles written for the Toronto Star
:*[[Living on $1,000 a Year in Paris]]
:*[[Harington Won't Demand Evacuation]]
:*[[Paris is Full of Russians]]
:*[[Tchitcherin Wants Japan Excluded]]
:*[[Italian Premier]]

===High School publications===
*[[How Ballad Writing Affects Our Seniors]], November 1916 article published in high school periodical

===Other===
*[[Three Stories and Ten Poems]] (Privately published in a run of 300 copies by Robert McAlmon's &quot;Contact Publishing&quot; in Paris, in 1923)
#''[[Up in Michigan]]''
#''[[Out of Season]]''
#''[[My Old Man]]''
{{fsx|5%|&lt;br/&gt;}}
#''[[Mitraigliatrice]]''
#''[[Oklahoma]]''
#''[[Oily Weather]]''
#''[[Roosevelt (Hemingway)|Roosevelt]]''
#''[[Captives]]''
#''[[Champs d'Honneur]]''
#''[[Riparto di Assalto]]''
#''[[Montparnasse]]''
#''[[Along with Youth]]''
#''[[Three Stories and Ten Poems/Chapter Heading|Chapter Heading]]''


{{License container begin}}
{{PD/US|1961}}
{{PD-US-no-renewal|1961}}
{{PD-Canada|1961}}
{{License container end}}
{{authority control}}

[[Category:United States authors]]
[[Category:Essayists]]
[[Category:Journalists as authors]]
[[Category:Novelists]]
[[Category:Pulitzer Prize winners]]
[[Category:Short story authors]]
[[Category:Nobel laureates in Literature]]</text>
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{{ambox|text=The template '''new texts''' is designed for contributors to announce their newly completed texts to the community.}}

== Linking corporate author ==

How do I get the author field of the template to link to [[Portal:Australian Freedom League]] for the work [[Facts About Conscription]]? The only other option I can think of is removing the work from the list so it doesn't show that annoying red-link.[[User:Misarxist|Misarxist]] ([[User talk:Misarxist|talk]]) 06:45, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
:Explained at [[Template:New_texts/item]] and I have updated accordingly. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 10:02, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
::Thx, will remember that next time.[[User:Misarxist|Misarxist]] ([[User talk:Misarxist|talk]]) 04:36, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Scope to extend the list length ? ==

We seem to be churning through new texts, and they disappear off the bottom in a wake or two.  Should we be thinking about having a longer list? Obviously we would need to look at the impact on the main page where it transcludes. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 09:18, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
:Is that in terms of &quot;wake of a ship&quot;; or the term of a laying-out?
:In short, Yes; a couple more items should not upset the current layout; and/or a slightly smaller font perhaps would allow a more significant lengthening of the list. [[User:MODCHK|MODCHK]] ([[User talk:MODCHK|talk]]) 09:35, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
::A slightly longer list would be OK.  The right column has seemed to be a bit short lately anyway (NB: I've just added a text without removing one; there was some white space under the column on the main page, so it worked out).  Alternatively, reducing the font size by a notch or adjusting the page could free more space. - [[User:AdamBMorgan|AdamBMorgan]] ([[User talk:AdamBMorgan|talk]]) 18:45, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
:::The longer list works this month, but the list of 7 was too long in February because the FT commentary was shorter. If we want a longer list, is there something else that can go onto the left column under the collaborations? Or do we add a fourth collaboration such as WikiProject of the month? [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 19:29, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
::::Although I'm sure there could be overlap, what if we split up new texts? Like '''New Poetry''', etc. - [[User:Theornamentalist|Theornamentalist]] ([[User talk:Theornamentalist|talk]]) 22:54, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
:::::I like this proposal by {{user|Billinghurst}}, I think a slightly longer list to try out is a great idea. -- '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 18:32, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
::::::Adding something to the left column could work.  While I do like the idea of WikiProject of the Month, that is very similar to Community Collaboration which has been the same for a long time now.  New poetry would be the simplest (or some other separation of new texts, such as non-fiction vs. fiction/poetry) as all the templates and support structure already exists.  We could also feature something else each month; perhaps an author. - [[User:AdamBMorgan|AdamBMorgan]] ([[User talk:AdamBMorgan|talk]]) 21:39, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
:::::::&quot;some other separation of new texts, such as non-fiction vs. fiction/poetry&quot; = this seems like the best idea and easiest to implement. -- '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 20:16, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
:Looks like nothing was ever done with this.  Was it abandoned due to work on a new main page?  --[[User:Doug|Doug.]]&lt;sup&gt;([[User talk:Doug|talk]] &lt;small&gt;•&lt;/small&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Doug|contribs]])&lt;/sup&gt; 17:23, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

== Suggested work for inlcusion ==
*[[:Index:A book of the west; being an introduction to Devon and Cornwall.djvu]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:24, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
*:&quot;New texts&quot; is open for anyone to add a link to their completed work (be it a whole book, or a work that is an independent part of a book) in the main namespace, be it transcribed through ProofreadPage or by traditional proofreading. Note that we would not link to the Index: ns.

== Incorrect link ==

Below the list of the new texts is a line that says: &quot;A partial listing of some new texts&quot;. But when I click &quot;new texts&quot; I go to the New Pages, not to &quot;New Texts&quot;. Perhaps this can be fixed? [[User:Dick Bos|Dick Bos]] ([[User talk:Dick Bos|talk]]) 16:06, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
:I believe that it is the correct link, so I have modified the text accordingly. If it is not what people consider the right link, ie. it should be main namespace only, then let us have that conversation in [[WS:S]] to seek a consensus on what it should be. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 02:40, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

== Validated vs proofread ==

I used to think this was only for validated works, apparently not, few if any are validated when posted.  However, considering the issue of churn, works would get more attention and present more quality if we restricted the list to works that had been validated.  If a work isn't 100% why are we considering it &quot;completed&quot; and why are we displaying it on our mainpage?  This might also encourage validation rather than sending the message to editors that the work is done.--[[User:Doug|Doug.]]&lt;sup&gt;([[User talk:Doug|talk]] &lt;small&gt;•&lt;/small&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Doug|contribs]])&lt;/sup&gt; 17:26, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
:I understand this to mean simply &quot;new&quot; works. Unsourced? Not yet validated? Maybe a couple of images missing? Doesn't matter, so long as the work is present in its entirety and was not there previously. In fact, I would say that it's ''better'' to include unvalidated texts, as this brings them to the forefront so that hopefully they will be more likely to be validated in the near future. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 20:36, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
::Oh, that's definitely a change.  I always understood 'complete' to mean 'done'.  Definitely not unsourced.  I disagree that it brings unvalidated texts to the forefront and makes them more likely to get validated. This is advertising our works to our readers not our editors.--[[User:Doug|Doug.]]&lt;sup&gt;([[User talk:Doug|talk]] &lt;small&gt;•&lt;/small&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Doug|contribs]])&lt;/sup&gt; 20:53, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
:::You may be right, in which case I've been doing it wrong this whole time. Oh well. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 19:18, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
::::Let's see if we get some input from someone like {{Ping|Billinghurst}} or {{Ping|George Orwell III}}.  It may be that we've always allowed works on here when they reach 100% proofread and I'm just not aware of it or that this has changed through consensus (including silent consensus).  My thought would be that such works should go on a works to be validated list such as [[Wikisource:Proofread_of_the_Month/validation_works]] and not placed on &quot;New texts&quot; until they are 100% validated but that's just my opinion.  I do note that /validation works uses the phrase &quot;completed works&quot; to mean 100% validated, but that may simply be relative to the context of that page.--[[User:Doug|Doug.]]&lt;sup&gt;([[User talk:Doug|talk]] &lt;small&gt;•&lt;/small&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Doug|contribs]])&lt;/sup&gt; 19:30, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
:::::Completed, yes, in that the entire document should be there. But this template should be &quot;not a big deal&quot;, and not expected to be as high quality as Featured Texts. -- '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 20:25, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I think the front page of this project should serve a multiple purposes: presenting (1) valuable, complete material that is the best representation of what we do here (i.e., validated texts); (2) valuable, but ''incomplete'' material that helps readers understand this is a collaborative project, and allows them to &quot;peek under the hood&quot; even as they consume material that is good enough for many purposes (i.e., texts that are mostly proofread); and (3) stuff that ''existing'' community members might be interested to know is here, and available to work on.

After all, we are a wiki; it's important to help readers understand the implications of that in multiple ways, as it takes a while to sink in for most people.

All that said, though, it might make sense for this to be split up differently from how it currently is -- e.g., a section for &quot;Newly validated texts&quot; and another for &quot;Texts nearing completion&quot; -- or similar.

While I like the &quot;collaboration of the month projects,&quot; I feel it's important that there be a lower bar, and more ephemeral, way to point out stuff that is in progress, but has come far enough along that it may be of use to readers. How exactly that is defined -- 100% proofread, or 60% proofread, or whatever -- is not a major concern of mine, but perhaps it should be spelled out so we're all on the same page.

(Recent background...I mistakenly added [[Funding Free Knowledge the Wiki Way - Wikimedia Foundation Participatory Grantmaking]] long before it was ready, in a fit of enthusiasm... {{ping|Nonexyst}} rightly reverted me. Just to be very clear, I do not think that such texts -- even at the state it's now in, with most pages OCR'd but not yet proofread -- should be added to the front page. That was just a moment of bad judgment on my part!) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 21:03, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
:It has not been a requirement for works to be validated to display on the main page via this template, maybe you are confusing this with our monthly highlighted works. IMNSHO it would be against our own interests to restrict to validated works as that would provide less incentive to do a new work and wait for someone else to come and valiate it, and by then they would hardly be 'new'. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 23:54, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
::Yeah, the point is for it to be &quot;new&quot; texts, and regularly changed through often, sort of to give our readers a feel for the site. -- '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 01:19, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
:::I'm cool with that, though I'm not sure a proofread work is any more 'new' than a validated work.  However, I would not that there is a bit of discussion above and elsewhere about churn and it appears that recently 1 or 2 times per day for new texts is about what we're running.  There are only 7 items on the list and the bottom item was added only four days ago.  I think we ought to consider that both when thinking about what qualifies and when thinking about the discussions about changing the length of the list.--[[User:Doug|Doug.]]&lt;sup&gt;([[User talk:Doug|talk]] &lt;small&gt;•&lt;/small&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Doug|contribs]])&lt;/sup&gt; 04:45, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
::::I'd be totally fine with even doubling the size of the list to 14 total entries, if we could achieve balance by also increasing the left column of the [[Main Page]] with content somehow. -- '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 04:57, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
:::::Sometimes it rotates slowly, sometimes quickly. If you think that there is the need for a change then [[WS:S]] is the place. It always is worth reviewing how we present out works.. To note that at the end of each month the works are added to a list of works for the year, and we could give that some better vision. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 11:03, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
::::::For information: The alternative suggestion on [[Main Page/sandbox]] has 20 texts, split fiction &amp; non-fiction. - [[User:AdamBMorgan|AdamBMorgan]] ([[User talk:AdamBMorgan|talk]]) 14:12, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
I have used this to display proofread only texts, but agree that it should contain properly validated works for the reasons outlined above—quality, it is for readers and so on—but would add that at least ''two'' contributors would think it is worth reading. On the other hand, the end user is unlikely to enter through the front door. &lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Cygnis insignis|CYGNIS INSIGNIS]]&lt;/span &gt; 15:55, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

== request ==

Could [[Free as in Freedom 2.0]] be added to the new text list?  I wasn't able to easily find a human-readable copy online, so I rebuilt from TeX sources in the FSF repo and uploaded it to here.  There are some links to a PDF on the FSF site but the links are broken (gone, moved, whatever).  Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/173.228.123.101|173.228.123.101]] 04:58, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
: I'm proofreading it; once I'm done I'll add it to the list. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:25, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

== Dot point 2:  two texts by the same author ==

{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Dot point 2 says ==&gt; Try not to have two texts by the same author on this template at the same time, thanks.

So ... if you want to add a text by the same author, the tradition has been to remove the existing text from the list to the archive  and replace it with the new text. As such when I trimmed, I rolled that one. They will all show latter. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 23:37, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

:&quot;Try&quot;--it is not a mandatory rule. Sometimes bending the rules allows us to showcase things we do on Wikisource that otherwise would be invisible to outsiders. In this instance, the two plays had different translators and different formats (prose vs. poetry). They were displayed together to demonstrate that we do carry different editions / translations, which is a rarity for us to be able to highlight. Most of the time different editions / translations are not completed at the same time, and we have very few works that have such diversity anyway.

: Your removal not only broke up the demonstration pair, but also reduced the overall number of items listed. You apparently did not notice that I had added the two plays together as if they were a single item, and expected them to come off together, thus keeping the number of other New Texts on display unaffected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:43, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
::If you want to demonstrate something or deviate from the normal then there is value in using  &lt;kbd&gt;&amp;lt;!-- --&amp;gt;&lt;/kbd&gt; rather than making others guess — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 10:59, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

== &quot;Monopoly&quot; ==

I noticed that ''Atlantic Monthly'' articles have been taking up most of the &quot;bandwidth&quot; of New texts on the Main page recently (currently comprising every slot). May I suggest that if a contributor wishes to announce new (shorter, more frequently added) contributions in such a manner that they swap a prior contribution with a recent one and place the former in the older entries section of New texts? That way other User contributions will have a chance to be showcased as well. [[User:Londonjackbooks|Londonjackbooks]] ([[User talk:Londonjackbooks|talk]]) 18:33, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
:I agree.— [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 18:51, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

: I think one principle at work here is that we don't want too much of the same thing on the front page at the same time. For example, we discourage having two works by the same author listed at the same time. If the &quot;New Texts&quot; are all articles from ''Atlantic Monthly'' then we have too much of the same thing. I think we ought also to make it clear that, although it is nice to have a record of completed new works, not every new work has to be listed as a &quot;New Text&quot; on the Main Page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:18, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

::Yes, I agree. I've started posting things from here to the @wikisource_en Twitter account, but haven't wanted to do too many of {{ping|Jasonanaggie|p=}}'s works (not because they're bad!) because they're all sort of the same. I've also been working from this list of recently validated works, which could be of use in finding things to post here:


&lt;pre&gt;
&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
   category=Index Validated
   count=5
   addfirstcategorydate=true
   namespace=Index
   suppresserrors=true
   ordermethod=categoryadd
&lt;/DynamicPageList&gt;
&lt;/pre&gt;
&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
   category=Index Validated
   count=5
   addfirstcategorydate=true
   namespace=Index
   suppresserrors=true
   ordermethod=categoryadd
&lt;/DynamicPageList&gt;
—[[User:Samwilson|Sam]] [[User_talk:Samwilson|Wilson]] 22:05, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

::The only reason I add the Atlantic pieces to the new texts list is that they seem to me to be a great grab bag of different interesting articles by very well known authors across the spectrum.  Some of these dated pieces are just great; One that just popped out as remarkable was one on &quot;Life Assurance&quot; when Life Insurance was a novel financial product being sold in the United States.  However, I will cease adding them if the community wants me to do so. -- [[User:Jasonanaggie|Jasonanaggie]] ([[User talk:Jasonanaggie|talk]]) 22:42, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

:::{{ping|Jasonanaggie}} You need not cease adding the pieces; either be 'choosy' or swap them out as suggested above. I only took notice the 'run' of ''AM'' articles after noting your add of an Aldrich work to his author page. I liked the piece and was going to add it to New texts myself after I validated it... until I noticed it had already been added to the list previously. [[User:Londonjackbooks|Londonjackbooks]] ([[User talk:Londonjackbooks|talk]]) 23:05, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

:::: Another option is to simply delay posting some of them. I've sometimes completed a play and deliberately held back from listing it as &quot;New&quot; until the new text list stagnated. That way, the addition would help move the list along when it's slow instead of increasing an already rapid turnover. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:57, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

== Timing process for works to be inhaled into JSON ==

{{ping|Inductiveload}} Are you manually running a script to inhale these into the JSON file? We seem to be behind the time in [[Wikisource:Works/2021]] and I am unsure what to now do with those grouped in March on [[Template:New texts]].  If this is a script, is this something that we should be getting run on toolforge through [[User:Wikisource-bot]]? — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 23:50, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

: {{re|Billinghurst}} It's not a script, because there's a little variance in the ways people enter this in the template (e.g. if it inhaled the revision before {{diff|11153884|this}}, a script would struggle).
: The idea here was that the JSON would be a singular ground truth data for {{tl|New texts}} ''as well'' as the archived pages and thereby negate any need for any archiving at all (except ''perhaps'' once a year, though even that can be obviated). But we do need everyone to be happy using the JSON as an input method. [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]]—&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Inductiveload|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Inductiveload|contribs]]&lt;/span&gt; 07:54, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
::{{ping|Inductiveload}} Why not start with the archival bits (those below the line), and that allows us to tidy up the new additions to the form that is required for a script for when they pass to the archival process. Or even get a bot-script to inhale those below the line that are in the right format, and leave those that are not?  I know that I occasionally invert things as it is easier to swap positional parameter numbers, and wouldn't even know if that is problematic for what you have configured. I would think that what we would want to do in the long term is to create a form for users to complete but the knowledge to do that is beyond me. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 08:11, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
:::Can we even have the newbits as individual json components that can then be concatenated as required. There may be value in having these thousand little additions as that allows a different count, and potentially other manipulations. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 08:15, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
:::: {{Re|billinghurst}} Positional parameter order, etc. isn't an issue (mwparserfromhell can handle it). It's more things like non-standard uses of parameters like translator that cause logical problems rather than syntactical.
:::: A form would be ideal.
:::: {{tqi|Can we even have the newbits as individual json components}} not sure how you mean? I don't think that would work in the wikitext (and if it did, you'd still lose all the input validation that the JSON editor has, and things like missing quotes would break stuff). [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]]—&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Inductiveload|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Inductiveload|contribs]]&lt;/span&gt; 08:37, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

== &quot;completed&quot; is unfinished... ==

I note the previous questions above about the word &quot;completed&quot;, as seen in at least these instances:

* From header of Template talk:New texts :
::&quot;The template '''new texts''' is designed for contributors to announce their {{underline|newly completed}} texts to the community.&quot;

* From header when &quot;Editing Template:New texts&quot;
::&quot;This is for {{underline|newly completed}} works.&quot;

* From header of e.g. [[Wikisource:Works/2021]]:
::&quot;These works are from scanned texts and have been {{underline|proofread at least once, if not fully validated}}.&quot;

So having seen nothing *definitive* explained above, nor explained elsewhere, I've just now entered [[Decision of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party Concerning the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution]], having seen that apparently being 'completely' proofread seems to be good enough for the 'complete' criterion.


'''Is the note at WS:Works/YYYY a true and definite description of 'complete' ''' ?
::&quot;... proofread at least once, if not fully validated.&quot;


'''For your bonus extra credit question''', and to further delineate 'complete', how would this apply to the work [[Eminent Chinese of the Ch'ing Period]] ? 

Almost all pages in the contributing volumes, [[Index:Eminent Chinese Of The Ch’ing Period - Hummel - 1943 - Vol. 1.pdf|Vol. 1]] and [[Index:Eminent Chinese Of The Ch’ing Period - Hummel - 1943 - Vol. 2.pdf|Vol. 2]] have been proofread, almost half validated, but a very few bibliographic pages, some indices and appendices are not proofread.

Must every bibliographic page transcluded by mainspace be proofread for the work to qualify as 'complete' ? I'd say yes.

Must every index and appendix referenced from mainspace be proofread for the work to qualify as 'complete' ? If so, Oy! That's a lotta pages to boost the work into being &lt;s&gt;done&lt;/s&gt; complete! [[User:Shenme|Shenme]] ([[User talk:Shenme|talk]]) 06:06, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
:The current custom is that the work must have been fully proofread recently so that it could be listed in the section. However, I have seen also some exceptions, for example works which were fully proofread long time ago and did not appear in the section in that time, were listed there later after they were fully validated, which is an attitude I have nothing against. Additional criterion which is probably not written anywhere, is that the work should not be a subject of any doubts as for its right to be hosted in Wikisource, so there should not be any unclosed discussions about its copyright or if it is in our scope.
:::::(I believe the last sentence above is in reference to [[Wikisource:Copyright_discussions#Decision_of_the_Central_Committee_of_the_Chinese_Communist_Party_Concerning_the_Great_Proletarian_Cultural_Revolution|copyright discussions]] where I unknowingly and quite ''unwillingly'' trespassed on copyright borders.) [[User:Shenme|Shenme]] ([[User talk:Shenme|talk]]) 09:50, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
::::::Not only :-) Such things happen in the section from time to time, anybody can make a mistake. What is more, sometimes the copyright of a work is challenged unnecessarily and later the challenge is withdrawn, but even in such cases it is necessary to wait until the discussion is closed. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:58, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
:However, currently there is no unified attitude to what a &quot;work&quot; is and so what can come into the section separately or only as a part of a larger work is being decided by custom, not by written rules:
:* Works consisting of several more or less independent volumes: While some people list each volume separately after its completions, others insist that the work is complete only after all volumes are complete.
:* Periodicals: Here every single article is considered a separate work, so it is not considered necessary to complete the whole number or volume or whatever. However, only longer and more notable articles are usually considered worthy to be listed in the section.
:* Encyclopaedias: I do not remember any to appear in the section, so I have no clue what the practice is :-) I would understand a similar attitude as with periodicals, but only if really long and notable articles were being listed, otherwise the section could be easily flooded with such works. I would not consider it good if there were more than 1 encyclopaedia article in the list, but that is my opinion.
:* Collections of longer works (short stories, essays…) Both attitudes appear: listing each work independently or listing the whole collection after it is finished. The second attitude is usually preferred when the individual works of the collection are being proofread quickly one after another, not to flood the section.
:* Collections of shorter works (poems…): Only the whole collection is usually listed after it is completed. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:47, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

{{comment}} It is not meant to be overly complex definition.   We know what incomplete is, we know what not started is, NOT those.  So when a work is complete, or where there are significant independent subparts. The purpose is to give works a shot at appearing on the front page when they are presentable and ready to show to the public. It is meant to be encouraging to our users to be able to show off their efforts rather than complete something in the background. We want to give that well-deserved pat on the back.  As JK said when I see works that have been proofread, or even sometimes validated, that have not been transcluded, and I will get them ready and announced. We walk to show our efforts, and have a dynamic aspect to our front page.

{{comment}} It seems to me a single feed is insufficient to cover all the steps of the project, and the &quot;new texts&quot; header is fundamentally ambiguous (flawed, even) - even if we agree on a hard definition, it won't be made clear to contributors as no step of the add - proofread - validate - fully transclude (&quot;complete&quot;) process is named like that internally. I made [[Wikisource:Scriptorium#&quot;New_texts&quot;_feed_is_insufficient|a post]] on central discussion to hopefully draw more eyes into this conversation, as it seems to have gone stale with no new recommendations reached. [[User:YuriNikolai|YuriNikolai]] ([[User talk:YuriNikolai|talk]]) 16:08, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

=== More on &quot;completed&quot; ===

I note that Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/March 2023 uses &quot;completed&quot; to mean something else. One or the other should use a different word, surely ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:31, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
:It is an English language work, not a definition applied.Our definitions for words are 1. Proofread, 2. Validated per [[Help:Page status]], anything else is vernacular. For new texts, we want listed works to be &quot;complete&quot;, and there are a variety of ways that can be achieved, and we give some latitude, as sometimes it can be a chapter or a part of a work. It is meant to be lure, and something changing on the main page. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 02:56, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

==Please help – red-lettered entry in &quot;new text&quot; list==
I apologize for making the error that has caused the entry for &quot;Application for extension of alien bond made by General Douglas MacArthur in respect of Loh Chui&quot; to red-letter: this is my first experience with creating a Wikisource page, though I'm experienced in Wikipedia. Could somebody help to correct it, please? The work is not a book etc. but a single-page document relating to a noteworthy person, published by the Government of the Philippines. Because of that, I sought advice as to its acceptability as a Wikisource text at [[Wikisource:Scriptorium#Will this document associated with General Douglas MacArthur be acceptable in Wikisource?|Scriptorium]]. [[User:SCHolar48|&lt;b style=&quot;color:#7F007F&quot;&gt;{{larger|SCHolar48}}&lt;/b&gt;&amp;nbsp;{{larger|🇦🇺}}]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk: SCHolar48|&lt;b&gt;&amp;#128172;&lt;/b&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;at&amp;nbsp;13:50, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
*[[User:SCHolar48|&lt;b style=&quot;color:#7F007F&quot;&gt;{{larger|SCHolar48}}&lt;/b&gt;&amp;nbsp;{{larger|🇦🇺}}]]: For the work to display here, you would need to [[Help:Transclusion|transclude]] the text. I have done so, and taken the liberty of cleaning up the formatting. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:09, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

::I appreciate immensely the time and skills you have applied to my attempts, [[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] -- I have studied them in depth. Obviously I have a long way to go in Wikisource! With many thanks, [[User:SCHolar44|SCHolar44]] ([[User talk:SCHolar44|talk]]) 03:49, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
:::{{ping|SCHolar44}} The best spot for community help and guidance (and there are numbers of willing people) is [[WS:S]]. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 06:24, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

== Number of entries displayed ==

The instructions say seven.

For a while we have had nine, which seemed to work fine. It was reduced to seven, and then shortly after went back up to nine.

As we are fine with nine, I suggest that we change the instructions. If that becomes a problem in the future, we can change back to seven. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:42, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
: It really depends on the length of the Featured Text, as the goal is to visually balance the two sections on the Main Page.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:34, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
::And the Featured Text should be looking to keep it so it balances close to the seven. It creeps up as people forget to bump to the archive. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 02:50, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
:::We are back up to nine, and that looks fairly balanced (even with several where titles and/or authors go on to two lines). As I said, this doesn't need to be fixed in stone. If the Featured Text is shorter, we can cut it back again. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:46, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
::::We still have nine texts, but the rubrics say seven. How can we change the wording from seven to nine ? It is all too complicated for me. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 23:05, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
And to note that I would love to be able to have the past articles in the month more quickly become visible in the works list, rather than wait until the nxt month. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 02:51, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

:The works list for 2023 doesn't show any works. How is that supposed to happen ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:52, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
::Anyone ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 10:19, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

== Texts by the same author ==

Reacting to the [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:New_texts&amp;oldid=prev&amp;diff=13260512 revert] by [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] accompanied with the summary &quot;stop moving around my stuff&quot;: The instructions for adding texts to the Template:New texts, which appear as an edit notice, quite clearly ask the users to ''&quot;Try not to have two texts by the same author on this template at the same time&quot;'', see point no. 2 of the [[MediaWiki:Editnotice-10-New texts|instructions]]. Traditionally it is achieved either by postponing the appearance of the text on the main page until the previous one by the same author disappears, or moving the previous one to the old texts earlier. The issue has also been discussed above in [[#Dot point 2: two texts by the same author]].{{pbr}}  I think that there is a good reason for having this point in the instructions, which is trying to have the list varied. While I do appreciate that contributors add a lot of important legal stuff to Wikisource, I do not think it is desirable for our main page to resemble a law portal, as there is quite a limited number of audience who would be attracted by that. However, a change of the instructions can be suggested and discussed.{{pbr}}As for the summary, I am afraid that the fact whose &quot;stuff&quot; it is does not make any difference. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:08, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
: I'm of two faces about the whole situation.
: '''On the one hand:''' I'm really happy that these legal texts and court cases are being pumped out in such large numbers. Oftentimes over the years I have seen &quot;New texts&quot; silent for days on end, or even up to a week sometimes, and it is one of many proofs that show the gap Wikisource has between being an amazing project ''in theory'' and not having the ability to produce enough texts to be useful to that many people. (We can't attract enough contributors, so we can't attract enough readers, and readers often become contributors, so it's really a bad cycle.) So, the fact that there are contributors who want to contribute in the area of law, or any other area, is a good thing. I'd like to think these contributions are giving some readers a better understanding of what's going on in the world right now, and them appearing in New texts, especially for more recent documents, is conducive to that. It is not unreasonable, IMO, to say that the fact that the works are similar or by similar authors doesn't destroy the merit of the ''arduous'' work that WS transcription takes, and so do ''deserve'' to be showed off anyway.
: '''On the other hand:''' The essential argument being presented here is a problem of ''variety'' in the &quot;New texts&quot; template, which does take away from the presentability of our user page. The main page appealing only to a certain audience (those interested in strictly legal texts) will only attract that audience, creating a bias for that type of content here, rather than appealing to many audiences.
: '''I want to say that for the time being,''' it's probably best we do follow the practice of not including texts by the same author. ''However,'' the situation opens a different idea. What if we had a way of filtering the new texts by type, so that only certain types of text show up on the main page, but give readers an option to ''expand'' the New texts box for more texts, including more new texts by that same author? We already filter texts by if they're films or not for display purposes, but what if we did this for novels, newspaper articles, magazine articles, edicts, court cases, encyclopedias? Just a thought. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 19:22, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
:: {{comment}} Two problems with filtering by &quot;type&quot;:  (1) Works can vary enormously in length.  Someone who has taken the time to proofread an entire novel may have spent weeks of work proofreading, while someone posting a newspaper obituary may have spent minutes.  (2) Works of fiction can be of many varieties: historical fiction, romance, sci-fi, etc., and magazine articles can do the same if they are fiction, or be of varied interest in differing topics: science, literary criticism, essays, politics.  So two novels or two magazine articles may share the same form, but represent different subject matter, genre, or style.  Such judgments could be very subjective.  The author principle was chosen because it is more objective. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:38, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
:I'd propose that texts that appeared in the past 10 or 20 years are not included in the list of new texts. The main idea of the wikisource project is to re-create texts from scanned texts of the past, so the context is searchable for example. 
:Most of the modern &quot;works&quot; (in particular all the texts that concentrate on recent American politics and jurisdiction) are already available in clear-texts formats elsewhere, I suppose. [[User:R. J. Mathar|R. J. Mathar]] ([[User talk:R. J. Mathar|talk]]) 12:26, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
{{dhr}}
: Can we have a modification of the rule to allow works by the same author, if said work is over 200 pages long? [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 05:18, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

== &quot;Completed&quot; ==

I have until now added texts here after finishing transcluding, but saw a text get removed for not being validated.

I know there are already multiple topics about this on this page, but they are a bit old and none of them ended by a clear answer, so I'd like to ask, should only proofread works appear here, yes or no? [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] — [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 18:19, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

:Text removed for not being validated ? Which was that ? &quot;The Story of the Flute&quot; was removed because it wasn't fully transcluded - only about three chapters had been done at that point. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:54, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
::Oh, ok, then I guess I misunderstood. [[User:Alien333|Alien333]] ([[Special:Contributions/Alien333|what I did]] — [[User_talk:Alien333|why I did it wrong]]) 07:05, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Alien333|Alien333]]: All pages have to be Proofread, and it should be fully transcluded. There is no requirement that any pages should be Validated, but there can be no pages marked Problematic. So, yes, only works whose Page: pages have been at least Proofread should appear here. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 06:37, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

== Piping ==

@[[User:FPTI|FPTI]]: Use the display= parameter to set the appearance of the link. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:55, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

:(So in this case you'd put &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{new texts/item|O. Henry Memorial Award Prize Stories, 1919/Five Thousand Dollars Reward|Melville Davisson Post|1919|display=Five Thousand Dollars Reward}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;, to get 
:{{new texts/item|O. Henry Memorial Award Prize Stories, 1919/Five Thousand Dollars Reward|Melville Davisson Post|1919|display=Five Thousand Dollars Reward}}) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:09, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

== Balancing ==

@[[User:Prospectprospekt|Prospectprospekt]]: the number isn't always 7, it's dependent. The goal is to make it approximately the same height as the &quot;Featured work&quot; box on the left. So eg for this month where the box for Pushkin's ''Poems'' is quite short, we're on 6 entries. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:46, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Is that really a big enough difference to make it an issue ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 13:03, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Nah, I just wanted to tell them because they had themselves [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:New_texts&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=15128821 restored] it to what they thought the correct number (7); if they want to keep an eye on that they should at least know it's not always 7. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:46, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Sorry - I meant is the difference between 6 and 7 enough of a problem ? A couple of times, I have seen the main page with 7 before it got balanced, and it looked fine to me. Though if there are items that are longer than usual, then it may look a bit unbalanced. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:47, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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    <title>Two Years Before the Mast/Chapter XXIII</title>
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===New Ship and Shipmates—My Watchmate===
{{smallcaps|Tuesday, Sept. 8th.}} This was my first day’s duty on board the ship; and though a sailor’s life is a sailor’s life wherever it may be, yet I found everything very different here from the customs of the brig Pilgrim. After all hands were called, at daybreak, three minutes and a half were allowed for every man to dress and come on deck, and if any were longer than that, they were sure to be overhauled by the mate, who was always on deck, and making himself heard all over the ship. The head-pump was then rigged, and the decks washed down by the second and third mates; the chief mate walking the quarter-deck and keeping a general supervision, but not deigning to touch a bucket or a brush. Inside and out, fore and aft, upper deck and between decks, steerage and forecastle, rail, bulwarks, and water-ways, were washed, scrubbed and scraped with brooms and canvas, and the decks were wet and sanded all over, and then holystoned. The holystone is a large, soft stone, smooth on the bottom, with long ropes attached to each end, by which the crew keep it sliding fore and aft, over the wet, sanded decks. Smaller hand-stones, which the sailors call “prayer-books,” are used to scrub in among the crevices and narrow places, where the large holystone will not go. An hour or two, we were kept at this work, when the head-pump was manned, and all the sand washed off the decks and sides. Then came swabs and squilgees; and after the decks were dry, each one went to his particular morning job. There were five boats belonging to the ship, —launch, pinnace, jolly-boat, larboard quarter-boat, and gig,—each of which had a coxswain, who had charge of it, and was answerable for the order and cleanness of it. The rest of the cleaning was divided among the crew; one having the brass and composition work about the capstan; another the bell, which was of brass, and kept as bright as a gilt button; a third, the harness-cask; another, the man-rope stanchions; others, the steps of the forecastle and hatchways, which were hauled up and holystoned. Each of these jobs must be finished before breakfast; and, in the meantime, the rest of the crew filled the scuttle-butt, and the cook scraped his kids (wooden tubs out of which the sailors eat) and polished the hoops, and placed them before the galley, to await inspection. When the decks were dry, the lord paramount made his appearance on the quarter-deck, and took a few turns, when eight bells were struck, and all hands went to breakfast. Half an hour was allowed for breakfast, when all hands were called again; the kids, pots, bread-bags, etc., stowed away; and, this morning, preparations were made for getting under weigh. We paid out on the chain by which we swung; hove in on the other; catted the anchor; and hove short on the first. This work was done in shorter time than was usual on board the brig; for though everything was more than twice as large and heavy, the cat-block being as much as a man could lift, and the chain as large as three of the Pilgrim’s, yet there was a plenty of room to move about in, more discipline and system, more men, and more good will. Every one seemed ambitious to do his best: officers and men knew their duty, and all went well. As soon as she was hove short, the mate on the forecastle, gave the order to loose the sails, and, in an instant, every one sprung into the rigging, up the shrouds, and out on the yards, scrambling by one another, the first up the best fellow,—cast off the yard-arm gaskets and bunt gaskets, and one man remained on each yard, holding the bunt jigger with a turn round the tye, all ready to let go, while the rest laid down to man the sheets and halyards. The mate then hailed the yards—“All ready forward?”—“All ready the cross-jack yards?” etc., etc., and “Aye, aye, sir!” being returned from each, the word was given to let go; and in the twinkling of an eye, the ship, which had shown nothing but her bare yards, was covered with her loose canvas, from the royal-mast-heads to the decks. Every one then laid down, except one man in each top, to overhaul the rigging, and the topsails were hoisted and sheeted home; all three yards going to the mast-head at once, the larboard watch hoisting the fore, the starboard watch the main, and five light hands, (of whom I was one,) picked from the two watches, the mizen. The yards were then trimmed, the anchor weighed, the cat-block hooked on, the fall stretched out, manned by “all hands and the cook,” and the anchor brought to the head with “cheerily men!” in full chorus. The ship being now under weigh, the light sails were set, one after another, and she was under full sail, before she had passed the sandy point. The fore royal, which fell to my lot, (being in the mate’s watch,) was more than twice as large as that of the Pilgrim, and, though I could handle the brig’s easily, I found my hands full, with this, especially as there were no jacks to the ship; everything being for neatness, and nothing left for Jack to hold on by, but his eyelids.

As soon as we were beyond the point, and all sail out, the order was given, “Go below the watch!” and the crew said that, ever since they had been on the coast, they had had “watch and watch,” while going from port to port; and, in fact, everything showed that, though strict discipline was kept, and the utmost was required of every man, in the way of his duty, yet, on the whole, there was very good usage on board. Each one knew that he must be a man, and show himself smart when at his duty, yet every one was satisfied with the usage; and a contented crew, agreeing with one another, and finding no fault, was a contrast indeed with the small, hard-used, dissatisfied, grumbling, desponding crew of the Pilgrim.

It being the turn of our watch to go below, the men went to work, mending their clothes, and doing other little things for themselves; and I, having go my wardrobe in complete order at San Diego, had nothing to do but to read. I accordingly overhauled the chests of the crew, but found nothing that suited me exactly, until one of the men said he had a book which “told all about a great highwayman,” at the bottom of his chest, and producing it, I found, to my surprise and joy, that it was nothing else than Bulwer’s Paul Clifford. This, I seized immediately, and going to my hammock, lay there, swinging and reading, until the watch was out. The between-decks were clear, the hatchways open, and a cool breeze blowing through them, the ship under easy way, and everything comfortable. I had just got well into the story, when eight bells were struck, and we were all ordered to dinner. After dinner came our watch on deck for four hours, and, at four o’clock, I went below again, turned into my hammock, and read until the dog watch. As no lights were allowed after eight o’clock, there was no reading in the night watch. Having light winds and calms, we were three days on the passage, and each watch below, during the daytime, I spent in the same manner, until I had finished my book. I shall never forget the enjoyment I derived from it. To come across anything with the slightest claims to literary merit, was so unusual, that this was a perfect feast to me. The brilliancy of the book, the succession of capital hits, lively and characteristic sketches, kept me in a constant state of pleasing sensations. It was far too good for a sailor. I could not expect such fine times to last long.

While on deck, the regular work of the ship went on. The sailmaker and carpenter worked between decks, and the crew had their work to do upon the rigging, drawing yarns, making spun-yarn, etc., as usual in merchantmen. The night watches were much more pleasant than on board the Pilgrim. There, there were so few in a watch, that, one being at the wheel, and another on the look-out, there was no one left to talk with; but here, we had seven in a watch, so that we had long yarns, in abundance. After two or three night watches, I became quite well acquainted with all the larboard watch. The sailmaker was the head man of the watch, and was generally considered the most experienced seaman on board. He was a thoroughbred old man-of-war’s-man, had been to sea twenty-two years, in all kinds of vessels—men-of-war, privateers, slavers, and merchantmen;—everything except whalers, which a thorough sailor despises, and will always steer clear of, if he can. He had, of course, been in all parts of the world, and was remarkable for drawing a long bow. His yarns frequently stretched through a watch, and kept all hands awake. They were always amusing from their improbability, and, indeed, he never expected to be believed, but spun them merely for amusement; and as he had some humor and a good supply of man-of-war slang and sailor’s salt phrases, he always made fun. Next to him in age and experience, and, of course, in standing in the watch, was an Englishman, named Harris of whom I shall have more to say hereafter. Then, came two or three Americans, who had been the common run of European and South American voyages, and one who had been in a “spouter,” and, of course, had all the whaling stories to himself. Last of all, was a broad-backed, thick-headed boy from Cape Cod, who had been in mackerel schooners, and was making his first voyage in a square-rigged vessel. He was born in Hingham, and of course was called “Bucketmaker.” The other watch was composed of about the same number. A tall, fine-looking Frenchman, with coal-black whiskers and curly hair, a first-rate seaman, and named John, (one name is enough for a sailor,) was the head man of the watch. Then came two Americans (one of whom had been a dissipated young man of property and family, and was reduced to duck trowsers and monthly wages,) a German, an English lad, named Ben, who belonged on the mizen topsail yard with me, and was a good sailor for his years, and two Boston boys just from the public schools. The carpenter sometimes mustered in the starboard watch, and was an old sea-dog, a Swede by birth, and accounted the best helmsman in the ship. This was our ship’s company, beside cook and steward, who were blacks, three mates, and the captain.

The second day out, the wind drew ahead, and we had to beat up the coast; so that, in tacking ship, I could see the regulations of the vessel. Instead of going wherever was most convenient, and running from place to place, wherever work was to be done, each man had his station. A regular tacking and wearing bill was made out. The chief mate commanded on the forecastle, and had charge of the head sails and the forward part of the ship. Two of the best men in the ship—the sailmaker from our watch, and John, the Frenchman, from the other, worked the forecastle. The third mate commanded in the waist, and, with the carpenter and one man, worked the main tack and bowlines; the cook, ''ex-officio'', the fore sheet, and the steward the main. The second mate had charge of the after yards, and let go the lee fore and main braces. I was stationed at the weather cross-jack braces; three other light hands at the lee; one boy at the spanker-sheet and guy; a man and a boy at the main topsail, top-gallant, and royal braces; and all the rest of the crew—men and boys—tallied on to the main brace. Every one here knew his station, must be there when all hands were called to put the ship about, and was answerable for every rope committed to him. Each man’s rope must be let go and hauled in at the order, properly made fast, and neatly coiled away when the ship was about. As soon as all hands are at their stations, the captain, who stands on the weather side of the quarter-deck, makes a sign to the man at the wheel to put it down, and calls out “Helm’s a lee’!” “Helm’s a lee’!” answers the mate on the forecastle, and the head sheets are let go. “Raise tacks and sheets!” says the captain; “tacks and sheets!” is passed forward, and the fore tack and main sheet are let go. The next thing is to haul taught for a swing. The weather cross-jack braces and the lee main braces are each belayed together upon two pins, and ready to be let go; and the opposite braces hauled taught. “Main topsail haul!” shouts the captain; the braces are let go; and if he has taken his time well, the yards swing round like a top; but if he is too late, or too soon, it is like drawing teeth. The after yards are then braced up and belayed, the main sheet hauled aft, the spanker eased over to leeward, and the men from the braces stand by the head yards. “Let go and haul!” says the captain; the second mate lets go the weather fore braces, and the men haul in to leeward. The mate, on the forecastle, looks out for the head yards. “Well, the fore topsail yard!” “top-gallant yard’s well!” “Royal yard too much! Haul into windward! So! well ''that''!” “Well ''all''!” Then the starboard watch board the main tack, and the larboard watch lay forward and board the fore tack and haul down the jib sheet, clapping a tackle upon it, if it blows very fresh. The after yards are then trimmed, the captain generally looking out for them himself. “Well the cross-jack yard!” “Small pull the main top-gallant yard!” “Well ''that''!” “Well the mizen top-gallant yard!” “cross-jack yards all ''well''!” “Well all aft!” “Haul taught to windward!” Everything being now trimmed and in order, each man coils up the rigging at his own station, and the order is given—“Go below the watch!”

During the last twenty-four hours of the passage, we beat off and on the land, making a tack about once in four hours, so that I had a sufficient opportunity to observe the working of the ship; and certainly, it took no more men to brace about this ship’s lower yards, which were more than fifty feet square, than it did those of the Pilgrim, which were not much more than half the size; so much depends upon the manner in which the braces run, and the state of the blocks; and Captain Wilson, of the Ayacucho, who was afterwards a passenger with us, upon a trip to windward, said he had no doubt that our ship worked two men lighter than his brig.

Friday, Sept. 11th. This morning, at four o’clock, went below, San Pedro point being about two leagues ahead, and the ship going on under studding-sails. In about an hour we were waked up by the hauling of the chain about decks, and in a few minutes “All hands ahoy!” was called; and we were all at work, hauling in and making up the studding-sails, overhauling the chain forward, and getting the anchors ready. “The Pilgrim is there at anchor,” said some one, as we were running about decks; and taking a moment’s look over the rail, I saw my old friend, deeply laden, lying at anchor inside of the kelp. In coming to anchor, as well as in tacking, each one had his station and duty. The light sails were clewed up and furled, the courses hauled up and the jibs down; then came the topsails in the buntlines, and the anchor let go. As soon as she was well at anchor, all hands lay aloft to furl the topsails; and this, I soon found, was a great matter on board this ship; for every sailor knows that a vessel is judged of, a good deal, by the furl of her sails. The third mate, a sailmaker, and the larboard watch went upon the fore topsail yard; the second mate, carpenter, and the starboard watch upon the main; and myself and the English lad, and the two Boston boys, and the young Cape-Cod man, furled the mizen topsail. This sail belonged to us altogether, to reef and to furl, and not a man was allowed to come upon our yard. The mate took us under his special care, frequently making us furl the sail over, three or four times, until we got the bunt up to a perfect cone, and the whole sail without a wrinkle. As soon as each sail was hauled up and the bunt made, the jigger was bent on to the slack of the buntlines, and the bunt triced up, on deck. The mate then took his place between the knight-heads to “twig” the fore, on the windlass to twig the main, and at the foot of the mainmast, for the mizen; and if anything was wrong,—too much bunt on one side, clews too taught or too slack, or any sail abaft the yard,—the whole must be dropped again. When all was right, the bunts were triced well up, the yard-arm gaskets passed, so as not to leave a wrinkle forward of the yard-short gaskets with turns close together.

From the moment of letting go the anchor, when the captain ceases his care of things, the chief mate is the great man. With a voice like a young lion, he was hallooing and bawling, in all directions, making everything fly, and, at the same time, doing everything well. He was quite a contrast to the worthy, quiet, unobtrusive mate of the Pilgrim; not so estimable a man, perhaps, but a far better mate of a vessel; and the entire change in Captain T——’s conduct, since he took command of the ship, was owing, no doubt, in a great measure, to this fact. If the chief officer wants force, discipline slackens, everything gets out of joint, the captain interferes continually; that makes a difficulty between them, which encourages the crew, and the whole ends in a three-sided quarrel. But Mr. Brown (the mate of the Alert) wanted no help from anybody; took everything into his own hands; and was more likely to encroach upon the authority of the master, than to need any spurring. Captain T—— gave his directions to the mate in private, and, except in coming to anchor, getting, under weigh, tacking, reefing topsails, and other “all-hands-work,” seldom appeared in person. This is the proper state of things, and while this lasts, and there is a good understanding aft, everything will go on well.

Having furled all the sails, the royal yards were next to be sent down. The English lad and myself sent down the main, which was larger than the Pilgrim’s main top-gallant yard; two more light hands, the fore; and one boy, the mizen. This order, we always kept while on the coast; sending them up and down every time we came in and went out of port. They were all tripped and lowered together, the main on the starboard side, and the fore and mizen, to port. No sooner was she all snug, than tackles were got up on the yards and stays, and the long-boat and pinnace hove out. The swinging booms were then guyed out, and the boats made fast by geswarps, and everything in harbor style. After breakfast, the hatches were taken off, and all got ready to receive hides from the Pilgrim. All day, boats were passing and repassing, until we had taken her hides from her, and left her in ballast trim. These hides made but little show in our hold, though they had loaded the Pilgrim down to the water’s edge. This changing of the hides settled the question of the destination of the two vessels, which had been one of some speculation to us. We were to remain in the leeward ports, while the Pilgrim was to sail, the next morning, for San Francisco. After we had knocked off work, and cleared up decks for the night, my friend S—— came on board, and spent an hour with me in our berth between decks. The Pilgrim’s crew envied me my place on board the ship, and seemed to think that I had got a little to windward of them; especially in the matter of going home first. S—— was determined to go home on the Alert, by begging or buying; if Captain T—— would not let him come on other terms, he would purchase an exchange with some one of the crew. The prospect of another year after the Alert should sail, was rather “too much of the monkey.” About seven o’clock, the mate came down into the steerage, in fine trim for fun, roused the boys out of the berth, turned up the carpenter with his fiddle, sent the steward with lights to put in the between-decks, and set all hands to dancing. The between-decks were high enough to allow of jumping; and being clear, and white, from holystoning, made a fine dancing-hall. Some of the Pilgrim’s crew were in the forecastle, and we all turned-to and had a regular sailor’s shuffle, till eight bells. The Cape-Cod boy could dance the true fisherman’s jig, barefooted, knocking with his heels, and slapping the decks with his bare feet, in time with the music. This was a favorite amusement of the mate’s, who always stood at the steerage door, looking on, and if the boys would not dance, he hazed them round with a rope’s end, much to the amusement of the men.

The next morning, according to the orders of the agent, the Pilgrim set sail for the windward, to be gone three or four months. She got under weigh with very little fuss, and came so near us as to throw a letter on board, Captain Faucon standing at the tiller himself, and steering her as he would a mackerel smack. When Captain T—— was in command of the Pilgrim, there was as much preparation and ceremony as there would be in getting a seventy-four under weigh. Captain Faucon was a sailor, every inch of him; he knew what a ship was, and was as much at home in one, as a cobbler in his stall. I wanted no better proof of this than the opinion of the ship’s crew, for they had been six months under his command, and knew what he was; and if sailors allow their captain to be a good seaman, you may be sure he is one, for that is a thing they are not always ready to say.

After the Pilgrim left us, we lay three weeks at San Pedro, from the 11th of September until the 2nd of October, engaged in the usual port duties of landing cargo, taking off hides, etc., etc. These duties were much easier, and went on much more agreeably, than on board the Pilgrim. “The more, the merrier,” is the sailor’s maxim; and a boat’s crew of a dozen could take off all the hides brought down in a day, without much trouble, by division of labor; and on shore, as well as on board, a good will, and no discontent or grumbling, make everything go well. The officer, too, who usually went with us, the third mate, was a fine young fellow, and made no unnecessary trouble; so that we generally had quite a sociable time, and were glad to be relieved from the restraint of the ship. While here, I often thought of the miserable, gloomy weeks we had spent in this dull place, in the brig; discontent and hard usage on board, and four hands to do all the work on shore. Give me a big ship. There is more room, more hands, better outfit, better regulation, more life, and more company. Another thing was better arranged here: we had a regular gig’s crew. A light whale-boat, handsomely painted, and fitted out with stern seats, yoke, tiller-ropes, etc., hung on the starboard quarter, and was used as the gig. The youngest lad in the ship, a Boston boy about thirteen years old, was coxswain of this boat, and had the entire charge of her, to keep her clean, and have her in readiness to go and come at any hour. Four light hands, of about the same size and age, of whom I was one, formed the crew. Each had his oar and seat numbered, and we were obliged to be in our places, have our oars scraped white, our tholepins in, and the fenders over the side. The bow-man had charge of the boat-hook and painter, and the coxswain of the rudder, yoke, and stern-sheets. Our duty was to carry the captain and agent about, and passengers off and on; which last was no trifling duty, as the people on shore have no boats, and every purchaser, from the boy who buys his pair of shoes, to the trader who buys his casks and bales, were to be taken off and on, in our boat. Some days, when people were coming and going fast, we were in the boat, pulling off and on, all day long, with hardly time for our meals; making, as we lay nearly three miles from shore, from forty to fifty miles’ rowing in a day. Still, we thought it the best berth in the ship; for when the gig was employed, we had nothing to do with the cargo, except small bundles which the passengers carried with them, and no hides to carry, besides the opportunity of seeing everybody, making acquaintances, hearing the news, etc. Unless the captain or agent were in the boat, we had no officer with us, and often had fine times with the passengers, who were always willing to talk and joke with us. Frequently, too, we were obliged to wait several hours on shore; when we would haul the boat up on the beach, and leaving one to watch her, go up to the nearest house, or spend the time in strolling about the beach, picking up shells, or playing hopscotch, and other games, on the hard sand. The rest of the crew never left the ship, except for bringing heavy goods and taking off hides; and though we were always in the water, the surf hardly leaving us a dry thread from morning till night, yet we were young, and the climate was good, and we thought it much better than the quiet, hum-drum drag and pull on board ship. We made the acquaintance of nearly half of California; for, besides carrying everybody in our boat,—men, women, and children,—all the messages, letters, and light packages went by us, and being known by our dress, we found a ready reception everywhere.

At San Pedro, we had none of this amusement, for, there being but one house in the place, we, of course, had but little company. All the variety that I had, was riding, once a week, to the nearest rancho, to order a bullock down for the ship.

The brig Catalina came in from San Diego, and being bound up to windward, we both got under weigh at the same time, for a trial of speed up to Santa Barbara, a distance of about eighty miles. We hove up and got under sail about eleven o’clock at night, with a light land-breeze, which died away toward morning, leaving us becalmed only a few miles from our anchoring-place. The Catalina, being a small vessel, of less than half our size, put out sweeps and got a boat ahead, and pulled out to sea, during the night, so that she had the sea-breeze earlier and stronger than we did, and we had the mortification of seeing her standing up the coast, with a fine breeze, the sea all ruffled about her, while we were becalmed, in-shore. When the sea-breeze died away, she was nearly out of sight; and toward the latter part of the afternoon, the regular north-west wind set in fresh, we braced sharp upon it, took a pull at every sheet, tack, and halyard, and stood after her, in fine style, our ship being very good upon a taughtened bowline. We had nearly five hours of fine sailing, beating up to windward, by long stretches in and off shore, and evidently gaining upon the Catalina at every tack. When this breeze left us, we were so near as to count the painted ports on her side. Fortunately, the wind died away when we were on our inward tack, and she on her outward, so we were in-shore, and caught the land-breeze first, which came off upon our quarter, about the middle of the first watch. All hands were turned-up, and we set all sail, to the skysails and the royal studding-sails; and with these, we glided quietly through the water, leaving the Catalina, which could not spread so much canvas as we, gradually astern, and, by daylight, were off St. Buenaventura, and our antagonist nearly out of sight. The sea-breeze, however, favored her again, while we were becalmed under the headland, and laboring slowly along, she was abreast of us by noon. Thus we continued, ahead, astern, and abreast of one another, alternately; now, far out at sea, and again, close in under the shore. On the third morning, we came into the great bay of Santa Barbara, two hours behind the brig, and thus lost the bet; though, if the race had been to the point, we should have beaten her by five or six hours. This, however, settled the relative sailing of the vessels, for it was admitted that although she, being small and light, could gain upon us in very light winds, yet whenever there was breeze enough to set us agoing, we walked away from her like hauling in a line; and in beating to windward, which is the best trial of a vessel, we had much the advantage of her.

Sunday, Oct. 4th. This was the day of our arrival; and somehow or other, our captain always managed not only to sail, but to come into port, on a Sunday. The main reason for sailing on the Sabbath is not, as many people suppose, because Sunday is thought a lucky day, but because it is a leisure day. During the six days, the crew are employed upon the cargo and other ship’s works, and the Sabbath, being their only day of rest, whatever additional work can be thrown into Sunday, is so much gain to the owners. This is the reason of our coasters, packets, etc., sailing on the Sabbath. They get six good days’ work out of the crew, and then throw all the labor of sailing into the Sabbath. Thus it was with us, nearly all the time we were on the coast, and many of our Sabbaths were lost entirely to us. The Catholics on shore have no trading and make no journeys on Sunday, but the American has no national religion, and likes to show his independence of priestcraft by doing as he chooses on the Lord’s day.

Santa Barbara looked very much as it did when I left it five months before: the long sand beach, with the heavy rollers, breaking upon it in a continual roar, and the little town, imbedded on the plain, girt by its amphitheatre of mountains. Day after day, the sun shone clear and bright upon the wide bay and the red roofs of the houses; everything being as still as death, the people really hardly seeming to earn their sun-light. Daylight actually seemed thrown away upon them. We had a few visitors, and collected about a hundred hides, and every night, at sundown, the gig was sent ashore, to wait for the captain, who spent his evenings in the town. We always took our monkey-jackets with us, and flint and steel, and made a fire on the beach with the driftwood and the bushes we pulled from the neighboring thickets, and lay down by it, on the sand. Sometimes we would stray up to the town, if the captain was likely to stay late, and pass the time at some of the houses, in which we were almost always well received by the inhabitants. Sometimes earlier and sometimes later, the captain came down; when, after a good drenching in the surf, we went aboard, changed our clothes, and turned in for the night—yet not for all the night, for there was the anchor watch to stand.

This leads me to speak of my watchmate for nine months—and, taking him all in all, the most remarkable man I have ever seen—Tom Harris. An hour, every night, while lying in port, Harris and myself had the deck to ourselves, and walking fore and aft, night after night, for months, I learned his whole character and history, and more about foreign nations, the habits of different people, and especially the secrets of sailors’ lives and hardships, and also of practical seamanship, (in which he was abundantly capable of instructing me,) than I could ever have learned elsewhere. But the most remarkable thing about him, was the power of his mind. His memory was perfect; seeming to form a regular chain, reaching from his earliest childhood up to the time I knew him, without one link wanting. His power of calculation, too, was remarkable. I called myself pretty quick at figures, and had been through a course of mathematical studies; but, working by my head, I was unable to keep within sight of this man, who had never been beyond his arithmetic: so rapid was his calculation. He carried in his head not only a log-book of the whole voyage, in which everything was complete and accurate, and from which no one ever thought of appealing, but also an accurate registry of all the cargo; knowing, precisely, where each thing was, and how many hides we took in at every port.

One night, he made a rough calculation of the number of hides that could be stowed in the lower hold, between the fore and main masts, taking the depth of hold and breadth of beam, (for he always knew the dimension of every part of the ship, before he had been a month on board,) and the average area and thickness of a hide; he came surprisingly near the number, as it afterwards turned out. The mate frequently came to him to know the capacity of different parts of the vessel, so he could tell the sailmaker very nearly the amount of canvas he would want for each sail in the ship; for he knew the hoist of every mast, and spread of every sail, on the head and foot, in feet and inches. When we were at sea, he kept a running account, in his head, of the ship’s way—the number of knots and the courses; and if the courses did not vary much during the twenty-four hours, by taking the whole progress, and allowing so many eighths southing or northing, to so many easting or westing; he would make up his reckoning just before the captain took the sun at noon, and often came wonderfully near the mark. Calculation of all kinds was his delight. He had, in his chest, several volumes giving accounts of inventions in mechanics, which he read with great pleasure, and made himself master of. I doubt if he ever forgot anything that he read. The only thing in the way of poetry that he ever read was [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer’s]] [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]], which he was delighted with, and whole pages of which he could repeat. He knew the name of every sailor that had ever been his shipmate, and also, of every vessel, captain, and officer, and the principal dates of each voyage; and a sailor whom he afterwards fell in with, who had been in a ship with Harris nearly twelve years before, was very much surprised at having Harris tell him things about himself which he had entirely forgotten. His facts, whether dates or events, no one thought of disputing; and his opinions, few of the sailors dared to oppose; for, right or wrong, he always had the best of the argument with them. His reasoning powers were remarkable. I have had harder work maintaining an argument with him in a watch, even when I knew myself to be right, and he was only doubting, than I ever had before; not from his obstinacy, but from his acuteness. Give him only a little knowledge of his subject, and, certainly among all the young men of my acquaintance and standing at college, there was not one whom I had not rather meet, than this man. I never answered a question from him, or advanced an opinion to him, without thinking more than once. With an iron memory, he seemed to have your whole past conversation at command, and if you said a thing now which ill agreed with something said months before, he was sure to have you on the hip. In fact, I always felt, when with him, that I was with no common man. I had a positive respect for his powers of mind, and felt often that if half the pains had been spent upon his education which are thrown away, yearly, in our colleges, he would have been a man of great weight in society. Like most self-taught men, he over-estimated the value of an education; and this, I often told him, though I profited by it myself; for he always treated me with respect, and often unnecessarily gave way to me, from an over-estimate of my knowledge. For the intellectual capacities of all the rest of the crew, captain and all, he had the most sovereign contempt. He was a far better sailor, and probably a better navigator, than the captain, and had more brains than all the after part of the ship put together. The sailors said, “Tom’s got a head as long as the bowsprit,” and if any one got into an argument with him, they would call out—“Ah, Jack! you’d better drop that, as you would a hot potato, for Tom will turn you inside out before you know it.”

I recollect his posing me once on the subject of the Corn Laws. I was called to stand my watch, and, coming on deck, found him there before me; and we began, as usual, to walk fore and aft, in the waist. He talked about the Corn Laws; asked me my opinion about them, which I gave him; and my reasons; my small stock of which I set forth to the best advantage, supposing his knowledge on the subject must be less than mine, if, indeed, he had any at all. When I had got through, he took the liberty of differing from me, and, to my surprise, brought arguments and facts connected with the subject which were new to me, to which I was entirely unable to reply. I confessed that I knew almost nothing of the subject, and expressed my surprise at the extent of his information. He said that, a number of years before, while at a boarding house in Liverpool, he had fallen in with a pamphlet on the subject, and, as it contained calculations, had read it very carefully, and had ever since wished to find some one who could add to his stock of knowledge on the question. Although it was many years since he had seen the book, and it was a subject with which he had no previous acquaintance, yet he had the chain of reasoning, founded upon principles of political economy, perfect in his memory; and his facts, so far as I could judge, were correct; at least, he stated them with great precision. The principles of the steam engine, too, he was very familiar with, having been several months on board of a steamboat, and made himself master of its secrets. He knew every lunar star in both hemispheres, and was a perfect master of his quadrant and sextant. Such was the man, who, at forty, was still a dog before the mast, at twelve dollars a month. The reason of this was to be found in his whole past life, as I had it, at different times, from himself.

He was an Englishman, by birth, a native of Ilfracomb, in Devonshire. His father was skipper of a small coaster, from Bristol, and dying, left him, when quite young, to the care of his mother, by whose exertions he received a common-school education, passing his winters at school and his summers in the coasting trade, until his seventeenth year, when he left home to go upon foreign voyages. Of his mother, he often spoke with the greatest respect, and said that she was a strong-minded woman, and had the best system of education he had ever known; a system which had made respectable men of his three brothers, and failed only in him, from his own indomitable obstinacy. One thing he often mentioned, in which he said his mother differed from all other mothers that he had ever seen disciplining their children; that was, that when he was out of humor and refused to eat, instead of putting his plate away, as most mothers would, and saying that his hunger would bring him to it, in time, she would stand over him and oblige him to eat it—every mouthful of it. It was no fault of hers that he was what I saw him; and so great was his sense of gratitude for her efforts, though unsuccessful, that he determined, at the close of the voyage, to embark for home with all the wages he should get, to spend with and for his mother, if perchance he should find her alive.

After leaving home, he had spent nearly twenty years, sailing upon all sorts of voyages, generally out of the ports of New York and Boston. Twenty years of vice! Every sin that a sailor knows, he had gone to the bottom of. Several times he had been hauled up in the hospitals, and as often, the great strength of his constitution had brought him out again in health. Several times, too, from his known capacity, he had been promoted to the office of chief mate, and as often, his conduct when in port, especially his drunkenness, which neither fear nor ambition could induce him to abandon, put him back into the forecastle. One night, when giving me an account of his life, and lamenting the years of manhood he had thrown away, he said that there, in the forecastle, at the foot of the steps—a chest of old clothes—was the result of twenty-two years of hard labor and exposure—worked like a horse, and treated like a dog. As he grew older, he began to feel the necessity of some provision for his later years, and came gradually to the conviction that rum had been his worst enemy. One night, in Havana, a young shipmate of his was brought aboard drunk, with a dangerous gash in his head, and his money and new clothes stripped from him. Harris had seen and been in hundreds of such scenes as these, but in his then state of mind, it fixed his determination, and he resolved never to taste another drop of strong drink, of any kind He signed no pledge, and made no vow, but relied on his own strength of purpose. The first thing with him was a reason, and then a resolution, and the thing was done. The date of his resolution he knew, of course, to the very hour. It was three years before I knew him, and during all that time, nothing stronger than cider or coffee had passed his lips. The sailors never thought of enticing Tom to take a glass, any more than they would of talking to the ship’s compass. He was now a temperate man for life, and capable of filling any berth in a ship, and many a high station there is on shore which is held by a meaner man.

He understood the management of a ship upon scientific principles, and could give the reason for hauling every rope; and a long experience, added to careful observation at the time, and a perfect memory, gave him a knowledge of the expedients and resorts in times of hazard, which was remarkable, and for which I became much indebted to him, as he took the greatest pleasure in opening his stores of information to me, in return for what I was able to do for him. Stories of tyranny and hardship which had driven men to piracy;—of the incredible ignorance of masters and mates, and of horrid brutality to the sick, dead, and dying; as well as of the secret knavery and impositions practised upon seamen by connivance of the owners, landlords, and officers; all these he had, and I could not but believe them; for men who had known him for fifteen years had never taken him even in an exaggeration, and, as I have said, his statements were never disputed. I remember, among other things, his speaking of a captain whom I had known by report, who never handed a thing to a sailor, but put it on deck and kicked it to him; and of another, who was of the best connections in Boston, who absolutely murdered a lad from Boston that went out with him before the mast to Sumatra, by keeping him hard at work while ill of the coast fever, and obliging him to sleep in the close steerage. (The same captain has since died of the same fever on the same coast.)

In fact, taking together all that I learned from him of seamanship, of the history of sailors’ lives, of practical wisdom, and of human nature under new circumstances,—a great history from which many are shut out,—I would not part with the hours I spent in the watch with that man for any given hours of my life passed in study and social intercourse.</text>
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  <page>
    <title>In Search of the Castaways; or Captain Grant's Children</title>
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      <comment>Clarifying the intro. C. F. Horne did not translate this or any other work of Verne.</comment>
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      <text bytes="4486" sha1="r7x0ncrlegifz7kscj6pux2xcjjl30m" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title    = In Search of the Castaways; or Captain Grant's Children
 | author   = Jules Verne
 | translator = Unknown
 | section  = 
 | previous = 
 | next     = 
 | year     = 1911
 | edition  = yes
 | notes    =  ''In Search of the Castaways'' (original title ''Les Enfants du capitaine Grant'', &quot;The Children of Captain Grant&quot;) is a science fiction novel by the French writer Jules Verne, published in 1867-1868. The original edition, by Hetzel, contains a number of illustrations by Edouard Riou.
This edition is based on an English translation first published by Routledge in 1876; heavily abridged in the 1911 &quot;The Works of Jules Verne&quot;, edited by Charles F. Horne.
{{WP link|In Search of the Castaways}}
}}
===Table of Contents===
==Part One: South America==
*[[/Chapter I|Chapter I: The Shark]]
*[[/Chapter II|Chapter II: The Three Documents]]
*[[/Chapter III|Chapter III: The Captain's Children]]
*[[/Chapter IV|Chapter IV: Lady Glenarvan's Proposal]]
*[[/Chapter V|Chapter V: The Departure of the &quot;Duncan&quot;]]
*[[/Chapter VI|Chapter VI: An Unexpected Passenger]]
*[[/Chapter VII|Chapter VII: Jacques Paganel is Undeceived]]
*[[/Chapter VIII|Chapter VIII: The Geographer's Resolution]]
*[[/Chapter IX|Chapter IX: Through the Straits of Magellan]]
*[[/Chapter X|Chapter X: The Course Decided]]
*[[/Chapter XI|Chapter XI: Traveling in Chili]]
*[[/Chapter XII|Chapter XII: Eleven Thousand Feet Aloft]]
*[[/Chapter XIII|Chapter XIII: A Sudden Descent]]
*[[/Chapter XIV|Chapter XIV: Providentially Rescued]]
*[[/Chapter XV|Chapter XV: Thalcave]]
*[[/Chapter XVI|Chapter XVI: The News of the Lost Captain]]
*[[/Chapter XVII|Chapter XVII: A Serious Necessity]]
*[[/Chapter XVIII|Chapter XVIII: In Search of Water]]
*[[/Chapter XIX|Chapter XIX: The Red Wolves]]
*[[/Chapter XX|Chapter XX: Strange Signs]]
*[[/Chapter XXI|Chapter XXI: A False Trail]]
*[[/Chapter XXII|Chapter XXII: The Flood]]
*[[/Chapter XXIII|Chapter XXIII: A Singular Abode]]
*[[/Chapter XXIV|Chapter XXIV: Paganel's Disclosure]]
*[[/Chapter XXV|Chapter XXV: Between Fire and Water]]
*[[/Chapter XXVI|Chapter XXVI: The Return on Board]]

==Part Two: Australia==
*[[/Chapter XXVII|Chapter I: A New Destination]]
*[[/Chapter XXVIII|Chapter II: Tristan D'Acunha and the Isle of Amsterdam]]
*[[/Chapter XXIX|Chapter III: Cape Town and M. Viot]]
*[[/Chapter XXX|Chapter IV: A Wager and How Decided]]
*[[/Chapter XXXI|Chapter V: The Storm on the Indian Ocean]]
*[[/Chapter XXXII|Chapter VI: A Hospitable Colonist]]
*[[/Chapter XXXIII|Chapter VII: The Quartermaster of the &quot;Britannia&quot;]]
*[[/Chapter XXXIV|Chapter VIII: Preparation for the Journey]]
*[[/Chapter XXXV|Chapter IX: A Country of Paradoxes]]
*[[/Chapter XXXVI|Chapter X: An Accident]]
*[[/Chapter XXXVII|Chapter XI: Crime or Calamity]]
*[[/Chapter XXXVIII|Chapter XII: Toline of the Lachlan]]
*[[/Chapter XXXIX|Chapter XIII: A Warning]]
*[[/Chapter XL|Chapter XIV: Wealth in the Wilderness]]
*[[/Chapter XLI|Chapter XV: Suspicious Occurrences]]
*[[/Chapter XLII|Chapter XVI: A Startling Discovery]]
*[[/Chapter XLIII|Chapter XVII: The Plot Unveiled]]
*[[/Chapter XLIV|Chapter XVIII: Four Days of Anguish]]
*[[/Chapter XLV|Chapter XIX: Helpless and Hopeless]]

==Part Three: New Zealand==
*[[/Chapter XLVI|Chapter I: A Rough Captain]]
*[[/Chapter XLVII|Chapter II: Navigators and Their Discoveries]]
*[[/Chapter XLVIII|Chapter III: The Martyr-Roll of Navigators]]
*[[/Chapter XLIX|Chapter IV: The Wreck of the &quot;Macquarie&quot;]]
*[[/Chapter L|Chapter V: Cannibals]]
*[[/Chapter LI|Chapter VI: A Dreaded Country]]
*[[/Chapter LII|Chapter VII: The Maori War]]
*[[/Chapter LIII|Chapter VIII: On the Road to Auckland]]
*[[/Chapter LIV|Chapter IX: Introduction to the Cannibals]]
*[[/Chapter LV|Chapter X: A Momentous Interview]]
*[[/Chapter LVI|Chapter XI: The Chief's Funeral]]
*[[/Chapter LVII|Chapter XII: Strangely Liberated]]
*[[/Chapter LVIII|Chapter XIII: The Sacred Mountain]]
*[[/Chapter LIX|Chapter XIV: A Bold Stratagem]]
*[[/Chapter LX|Chapter XV: From Peril to Safety]]
*[[/Chapter LXI|Chapter XVI: Why the &quot;Duncan&quot; Went to New Zealand]]
*[[/Chapter LXII|Chapter XVII: Ayrton's Obstinacy]]
*[[/Chapter LXIII|Chapter XVIII: A Discouraging Confession]]
*[[/Chapter LXIV|Chapter XIX: A Cry in the Night]]
*[[/Chapter LXV|Chapter XX: Captain Grant's Story]]
*[[/Chapter LXVI|Chapter XXI: Paganel's Last Entanglement]]

[[Category:French novels]]
[[Category:Works originally in French]]

[[fr:Les Enfants du capitaine Grant]]
[[pl:Dzieci kapitana Granta]]</text>
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      <text bytes="442" sha1="c5b5rpfi4q64ogs81wzyhc0dm3iovdt" xml:space="preserve">I'm working on improving [[the Urantia Book]]'s readability (also, [[Index:The Urantia Book, 1st Edition.djvu|djvu index]], and an [[User:Xaxafrad/Urantia Book Index|alternate index]] of pages).

[[User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox|Sandbox]], [[User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox/index.css|Sandbox/index.css]], [[User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox/styles.css|Sandbox/styles.css]]
==See Also==
My [[w:User:Xaxafrad|Wikipedia user page]], [[commons:User:Xaxafrad|Commons user page]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Life</title>
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      <comment>/* Other */ add mention of Life magazine</comment>
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      <text bytes="6491" sha1="b2h1m5set8t3gd0ixy7t0hlvm9u097w" xml:space="preserve">{{disambiguation}}
==Poems==
* &quot;[[Poems (Charlotte Allen)/Life|Life]]&quot;, a poem by [[Author:Charlotte Allen|Charlotte Allen]] (''What is our life? 'Tis like a flower'')
*&quot;[[Poems (Bass)/Life|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Cora C. Bass|Cora C. Bass]] (''Life is like the ocean'')
* &quot;[[Life (Brontë)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Charlotte Brontë|Charlotte Brontë]] (''Life, believe, is not a dream'')
* &quot;[[Poems (Frances Elizabeth Browne)/Life|Life]]&quot;, a poem by [[Author:Frances Elizabeth Browne|Frances Elizabeth Browne]] (''O checkered life! though numerous ills'')
* &quot;[[Life (Coates, &quot;Thou art more ancient than the oldest skies&quot;)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Florence Earle Coates|Florence Earle Coates]] (''Thou art more ancient than the oldest skies'')
* &quot;[[Life (Coates, &quot;Before we knew thee thou wert with us; ay&quot;)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Florence Earle Coates|Florence Earle Coates]]  (''Before we knew thee thou wert with us; ay'')
* &quot;[[Life (Coleridge)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Samuel Taylor Coleridge|Samuel Taylor Coleridge]] (''As late I journeyed o’er the extensive plain'')
* &quot;[[The Works of Abraham Cowley/Volume 2/Life|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Abraham Cowley|Abraham Cowley]] (''We're ill by these grammarians us'd'')
* &quot;[[Life (Cox)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:S. Donald Cox|S. Donald Cox]] (''Lilt of a child's gay laughter'')
* &quot;[[Life (Custance)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Olive Custance|Olive Custance]] (''I play with life on different days'')
* &quot;[[Life (Dunbar)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Paul Laurence Dunbar|Paul Laurence Dunbar]] (''A crust of bread and a corner to sleep in'')
* &quot;[[Life (Gilder)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Richard Watson Gilder|Richard Watson Gilder]] (''Great Universe—what dost thou with thy dead!'')
* &quot;[[Poems, Sacred and Moral/Life|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Thomas Gisborne|Thomas Gisborne]] (''A Soldier's course from battles won'')
* &quot;[[Poems (Griffith)/Life|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Mattie Griffith|Mattie Griffith]] (''Oh, life is very, very beautiful'')
* &quot;[[Poems (Hale)/Life|Life]]&quot;, a poem by [[Author:Mary Whitwell Hale|Mary Whitwell Hale]] (''At day's sweet dawn, the traveler's feet'')
* &quot;[[Life (Herbert)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:George Herbert (1593-1633)|George Herbert]] (''I made a posie, while the day ran by'')
* &quot;[[Poems (Hornblower)/Life|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Jane Elizabeth Roscoe Hornblower|Jane Elizabeth Roscoe Hornblower]] (''The mystery of life—oh how it weighs'')
* &quot;[[Life (Howells)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:William Dean Howells|William Dean Howells]] (''Once a thronged thoroughfare that wound afar'')
* &quot;[[Poems (Jordan)/Life|Life]]&quot;, a poem by [[Author:Rebecca Queen Jordan|Rebecca Queen Jordan]] (''The longest story shaped by lips, left something still untold;'')
* &quot;[[Poems (Lambert)/Life|Life]]&quot;, a poem by [[Author:Mary Eliza Perine Tucker Lambert|Mary Eliza Perine Tucker Lambert]] (''Life? What is life but fleeting bliss,'')
* &quot;[[Life (Landon)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Letitia Elizabeth Landon|Letitia Elizabeth Landon]] (''It is in vain—'')
* &quot;[[Life (Lockhart)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Andrew Francis Lockhart|Andrew Francis Lockhart]] (''Just a little night-time'')
* &quot;[[Life (Motherwell)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:William Motherwell|William Motherwell]] (''O Life! what is thy quest?—What owns this world'')
* &quot;[[Life (Naidu)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Sarojini Naidu|Sarojini Naidu]] (''Children, ye have not lived, to you it seems'')
* &quot;[[Poems (Odom)/Life|Life]]&quot;, a poem by [[Author:Mary Hunt McCaleb Odom|Mary Hunt McCaleb Odom]] (''Life is a problem strange and deep,'')
* &quot;[[Life (Ramos)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:João de Deus de Nogueira Ramos|João de Deus de Nogueira Ramos]], translated by [[Author:Watson Kirkconnell|Watson Kirkconnell]] (''Life is a moment's maze'')
* &quot;[[Life (Rawnsley)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Hardwicke Drummond Rawnsley|Hardwicke Drummond Rawnsley]] (''Oh sadness of decay!'')
* &quot;[[Poems (Ryan)/Life|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Mary C. Ryan|Mary C. Ryan]] (''Oh! what is life, but a short breath,'')
* &quot;[[Life (Sigourney, &quot;Life is like a painted dream&quot;)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Lydia Huntley Sigourney|Lydia Huntley Sigourney]] (''Life is like a painted dream'')
* &quot;[[Life (Sigourney, &quot;Life, passing like the morning ray&quot;)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Lydia Huntley Sigourney|Lydia Huntley Sigourney]] (''Life, passing like the morning ray'')
* &quot;[[Life (Stephens)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Eliza Jane Stephens|Eliza Jane Stephens]] (''We linger here a little time'')
* &quot;[[The Soul Of A Century/Life|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Jaroslav Vrchlický|Jaroslav Vrchlický]] (''Though your life be straight or turning'')
* &quot;[[Life (Wharton, &quot;Life, like a marble block, is given to all&quot;)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Edith Wharton|Edith Wharton]] (''Life, like a marble block, is given to all'')
* &quot;[[Life (Wharton, &quot;Nay, lift me to thy lips, Life, and once more&quot;)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Edith Wharton|Edith Wharton]] (''Nay, lift me to thy lips, Life, and once more'')
*&quot;[[Poems (White)/Life|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Jeannie Copes White|Jeannie Copes White]] (''Light and shade, light and shade—'')
* &quot;[[Life (Wilcox, &quot;I feel the great immensity of life&quot;)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Ella Wheeler Wilcox|Ella Wheeler Wilcox]] (''I feel the great immensity of life'')
* &quot;[[Life (Wilcox, &quot;Life, like a romping schoolboy, full of glee&quot;)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Ella Wheeler Wilcox|Ella Wheeler Wilcox]] (''Life, like a romping schoolboy, full of glee'')
* &quot;[[Life (Wilcox, &quot;Oh! I feel the growing glory&quot;)|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Ella Wheeler Wilcox|Ella Wheeler Wilcox]] (''Oh! I feel the growing glory'')
* &quot;[[Canada and Other Poems/Life|Life]]&quot; by [[Author:Thomas Frederick Young|T. F. Young]] (''What is life?&quot; I asked a lad,'')

==Encyclopaedia articles==
* {{EB1911 link|Life}}
* {{CE link|Life|author=[[Author:Michael Maher|Michael Maher]]}}

==Other==
* ''[[w:Life (magazine)|Life]]'', an American magazine published weekly 1883–1972 then monthly 1978–2000 and currently publishing &quot;special issues&quot; on an irregular basis. 
* &quot;[[The How and Why Library/Life|Life]]&quot; in ''[[The How and Why Library]]'', an article by [[Author:Eleanor Stackhouse Atkinson|Eleanor Stackhouse Atkinson]]
* &quot;[[The Royal Path of Life/Life|Life]]&quot; in ''[[The Royal Path of Life]]'', an essay by [[Author:T. L. Haines|T. L. Haines]] and [[Author:L. W. Yaggy|L. W. Yaggy]]
* &quot;[[Life (Machado de Assis)|Life]]&quot;, a short story by [[Author:Joaquim Maria Machado de Assis|Machado de Assis]], translated by [[Author:Isaac Goldberg|Isaac Goldberg]]
* ''[[A Life]]'' (1883) French: ''Une Vie'' (''L’Humble Vérité''), a novel by [[Author:Guy de Maupassant|Guy de Maupassant]]</text>
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      <text bytes="11981" sha1="jw02c2890pg5rv888v0wsq29ik0kokq" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title    = [[../]]
 | author   = Herman Melville
 | section  = Chapter LXV
 | previous = [[../Chapter LXIV|Chapter LXIV]]
 | next     = [[../Chapter LXVI|Chapter LXVI]]
 | notes    = '''Chapter LXV. A Man-of-War Race.'''
}}

We lay in Rio so long--for what reason the Commodore only knows--that a saying went abroad among the impatient sailors that our frigate would at last ground on the beef-bones daily thrown overboard by the cooks.

But at last good tidings came. &quot;All hands up anchor, ahoy!&quot; And bright and early in the morning up came our old iron, as the sun rose in the East.

The land-breezes at Rio--by which alone vessels may emerge from the bay--is ever languid and faint. It comes from gardens of citrons and cloves, spiced with all the spices of the Tropic of Capricorn. And, like that old exquisite, Mohammed, who so much loved to snuff perfumes and essences, and used to lounge out of the conservatories of Khadija, his wife, to give battle to the robust sons of Koriesh; even so this Rio land-breeze comes jaded with sweet-smelling savours, to wrestle with the wild Tartar breezes of the sea.

Slowly we dropped and dropped down the bay, glided like a stately swan through the outlet, and were gradually rolled by the smooth, sliding billows broad out upon the deep. Straight in our wake came the tall main-mast of the English fighting-frigate, terminating, like a steepled cathedral, in the bannered cross of the religion of peace; and straight after ''her'' came the rainbow banner of France, sporting God's token that no more would he make war on the earth.

Both Englishmen and Frenchmen were resolved upon a race; and we Yankees swore by our top-sails and royals to sink their blazing banners that night among the Southern constellations we should
daily be extinguishing behind us in our run to the North.

&quot;Ay,&quot; said Mad Jack, &quot;St. George's banner shall be as the ''Southern Cross'', out of sight, leagues down the horizon, while our gallant stars, my brave boys, shall burn all alone in the
North, like the Great Bear at the Pole! Come on, Rainbow and Cross!&quot;

But the wind was long languid and faint, not yet recovered from its night's dissipation ashore, and noon advanced, with the Sugar-Loaf pinnacle in sight.

Now it is not with ships as with horses; for though, if a horse walk well and fast, it generally furnishes good token that he is not bad at a gallop, yet the ship that in a light breeze is outstripped, may sweep the stakes, so soon as a t'gallant breeze enables her to strike into a canter. Thus fared it with us. First, the Englishman glided ahead, and bluffly passed on; then the Frenchman politely bade us adieu, while the old Neversink lingered behind, railing at the effeminate breeze. At one time, all three frigates were irregularly abreast, forming a diagonal line; and so near were all three, that the stately officers on the poops stiffly saluted by touching their caps, though refraining from any further civilities. At this juncture, it was a noble sight to behold those fine frigates, with dripping breast-hooks, all rearing and nodding in concert, and to look through their tall spars and wilderness of rigging, that seemed like inextricably-entangled, gigantic cobwebs against the sky.

Toward sundown the ocean pawed its white hoofs to the spur of its helter-skelter rider, a strong blast from the Eastward, and, giving three cheers from decks, yards, and tops, we crowded all sail on St. George and St. Denis.

But it is harder to overtake than outstrip; night fell upon us, still in the rear--still where the little boat was, which, at the eleventh hour, according to a Rabbinical tradition, pushed after the ark of old Noah.

It was a misty, cloudy night; and though at first our look-outs kept the chase in dim sight, yet at last so thick became the atmosphere, that no sign of a strange spar was to be seen. But
the worst of it was that, when last discerned, the Frenchman was broad on our weather-bow, and the Englishman gallantly leading his van.

The breeze blew fresher and fresher; but, with even our main-royal set, we dashed along through a cream-coloured ocean of illuminated foam. White-Jacket was then in the top; and it was glorious to look down and see our black hull butting the white sea with its broad bows like a ram.

&quot;We must beat them with such a breeze, dear Jack,&quot; said I to our noble Captain of the Top.

&quot;But the same breeze blows for John Bull, remember,&quot; replied Jack, who, being a Briton, perhaps favoured the Englishman more than the Neversink.

&quot;But how we boom through the billows!&quot; cried Jack, gazing over the top-rail; then, flinging forth his arm, recited,

:&quot;' ''Aslope, and gliding on the leeward side'',
:''The bounding vessel cuts the roaring tide.'' '

Camoens! White-Jacket, Camoens! Did you ever read him? The Lusiad, I mean? It's the man-of-war epic of the world, my lad. Give me Gama for a Commodore, say I--Noble Gama! And Mickle, White-Jacket, did you ever read of him? William Julius Mickle? Camoens's Translator? A disappointed man though, White-Jacket. Besides his version of the Lusiad, he wrote many forgotten things. Did you ever see his ballad of Cumnor Hall?--No?--Why, it gave Sir Walter Scott the hint of Kenilworth. My father knew Mickle when he went to sea on board the old Romney man-of-war. How many great men have been sailors, White-Jacket! They say Homer himself was once a tar, even as his hero, Ulysses, was both a sailor and a shipwright. I'll swear Shakspeare was once a captain of the forecastle. Do you mind the first scene in ''The Tempest'', White-Jacket? And the world-finder, Christopher Columbus, was a sailor! and so was Camoens, who went to sea with Gama, else we had never had the Lusiad, White-Jacket. Yes, I've sailed over the very track that Camoens sailed--round the East Cape into the Indian Ocean. I've been in Don Jose's garden, too, in Macao, and bathed my feet in the blessed dew of the walks where Camoens wandered before me. Yes, White-Jacket, and I have seen and sat in the cave at the end of the flowery, winding way,
where Camoens, according to tradition, composed certain parts of his Lusiad. Ay, Camoens was a sailor once! Then, there's [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer]], whose '[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Ship-wreck]]' will never founder, though he himself, poor fellow, was lost at sea in the Aurora frigate. Old Noah was the first sailor. And St. Paul, too, knew how to box the compass, my lad! mind you that chapter in Acts? I couldn't spin
the yarn better myself. Were you ever in Malta? They called it Melita in the Apostle's day. I have been in Paul's cave there, White-Jacket. They say a piece of it is good for a charm against
shipwreck; but I never tried it. There's Shelley, he was quite a sailor. Shelley--poor lad! a Percy, too--but they ought to have let him sleep in his sailor's grave--he was drowned in the
Mediterranean, you know, near Leghorn--and not burn his body, as they did, as if he had been a bloody Turk. But many people thought him so, White-Jacket, because he didn't go to mass, and
because he wrote Queen Mab. Trelawney was by at the burning; and he was an ocean-rover, too! Ay, and Byron helped put a piece of a keel on the fire; for it was made of bits of a wreck, they say; one wreck burning another! And was not Byron a sailor? an amateur forecastle-man, White-Jacket, so he was; else how bid the ocean heave and fall in that grand, majestic way? I say, White-Jacket, d'ye mind me? there never was a very great man yet who spent all his life inland. A snuff of the sea, my boy, is inspiration; and having been once out of sight of land, has been the making of many a true poet and the blasting of many pretenders; for, d'ye see, there's no gammon about the ocean; it knocks the false keel right off a pretender's bows; it tells him just what he is, and makes him feel it, too. A sailor's life, I say, is the thing to
bring us mortals out. What does the blessed Bible say? Don't it say that we main-top-men alone see the marvellous sights and wonders? Don't deny the blessed Bible, now! don't do it! How it
rocks up here, my boy!&quot; holding on to a shroud; &quot;but it only proves what I've been saying--the sea is the place to cradle genius! Heave and fall, old sea!&quot;

&quot;And ''you'', also, noble Jack,&quot; said I, &quot;what are you but a sailor?&quot;

&quot;You're merry, my boy,&quot; said Jack, looking up with a glance like that of a sentimental archangel doomed to drag out his eternity in disgrace. &quot;But mind you, White-Jacket, there are many great men in the world besides Commodores and Captains. I've that here, White-Jacket&quot;--touching his forehead--&quot;which, under happier skies--perhaps in you solitary star there, peeping down from those clouds--might have made a Homer of me. But Fate is Fate, White-Jacket; and we Homers who happen to be captains of tops must write our odes in our hearts, and publish them in our heads. But look! the Captain's on the poop.&quot;

It was now midnight; but all the officers were on deck.

&quot;Jib-boom, there!&quot; cried the Lieutenant of the Watch, going forward and hailing the headmost look-out. &quot;D'ye see anything of those fellows now?&quot;

&quot;See nothing, sir.&quot;

&quot;See nothing, sir,&quot; said the Lieutenant, approaching the Captain, and touching his cap.

&quot;Call all hands!&quot; roared the Captain. &quot;This keel sha'n't be beat while I stride it.&quot;

All hands were called, and the hammocks stowed in the nettings for the rest of the night, so that no one could lie between blankets.

Now, in order to explain the means adopted by the Captain to insure us the race, it needs to be said of the Neversink, that, for some years after being launched, she was accounted one of the
slowest vessels in the American Navy. But it chanced upon a time, that, being on a cruise in the Mediterranean, she happened to sail out of Port Mahon in what was then supposed to be very bad trim for the sea. Her bows were rooting in the water, and her stern kicking up its heels in the air. But, wonderful to tell, it was soon discovered that in this comical posture she sailed like a shooting-star; she outstripped every vessel on the station. Thenceforward all her Captains, on all cruises, ''trimmed her by the head;'' and the Neversink gained the name of a clipper.

To return. All hands being called, they were now made use of by Captain Claret as make-weights, to trim the ship, scientifically, to her most approved bearings. Some were sent forward on the
spar-deck, with twenty-four-pound shot in their hands, and were judiciously scattered about here and there, with strict orders not to budge an inch from their stations, for fear of marring the Captain's plans. Others were distributed along the gun and berth-decks, with similar orders; and, to crown all, several carronade guns were unshipped from their carriages, and swung in their breechings from the beams of the main-deck, so as to impart a sort of vibratory briskness and oscillating buoyancy to the frigate.

And thus we five hundred make-weights stood out that whole night, some of us exposed to a drenching rain, in order that the Neversink might not be beaten. But the comfort and consolation of all make-weights is as dust in the balance in the estimation of the rulers of our man-of-war world.

The long, anxious night at last came to an end, and, with the first peep of day, the look-out on the jib-boom was hailed; but nothing was in sight. At last it was broad day; yet still not a
bow was to be seen in our rear, nor a stern in our van.

&quot;Where are they?&quot; cried the Captain.

&quot;Out of sight, astern, to be sure, sir,&quot; said the officer of the deck.

&quot;Out of sight, ''ahead'', to be sure, sir,&quot; muttered Jack Chase, in the top.

Precisely thus stood the question: whether we beat them, or whether they beat us, no mortal can tell to this hour, since we never saw them again; but for one, White-Jacket will lay his two
hands on the bow chasers of the Neversink, and take his ship's oath that we Yankees carried the day.</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Portal:Mormonism</title>
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 | title     = Mormonism
 | class     = B
 | subclass1 = X
 | reviewed  =
 | shortcut  = 
 | wikipedia = Portal:Latter-day Saints
 | commonscat = The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
 | notes     = This category lists works related to [[w:Mormonism|Mormonism]], also known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or simply &quot;LDS&quot;.
}}
[[Image:Joseph Smith first vision stained glass.jpg|right|300px|thumb|[[w:Joseph Smith|Joseph Smith]] described a vision where God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him in a grove of trees.  This event, and the belief that all men and women can learn of and know God through revelation, are fundamental tenets of Mormonism.]]

==LDS Standard Works (Scriptures)==
*[[Bible_(King_James)|The King James Version of the Bible]]
*[[The Book of Mormon]]
*[[The Pearl of Great Price]]
*[[The Doctrine and Covenants]]

==Early LDS Theological Publications==
*The [[Book of Commandments]] (1833), predecessor of The Doctrine and Covenants
*[[Patriarchal Blessings by Joseph Smith Sr Dated 1834-1840]]
*[[The Seer]], 1853 - ? by Orson Pratt
*[[Journal of Discourses]] 1854- 1886
*[[Interesting Account of Several Remarkable Visions|A Interesting Account of Several Remarkable Visions and of the Late Discovery of Ancient American Records]], 1840 by Orson Pratt
*[[Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate|Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate]]
*[[Lectures on Faith]]

===Historical and Analytical===
*[[Missouri Executive Order 44]] by Lillburn W. Boggs (1838) The extermination order.
*[http://www.archive.org/details/themormonsorlatt00mackuoft The Mormons, or Latter-day Saints. With memoirs of the life and death of Joseph Smith, the &quot;American Mahomet&quot;], 1851 by [[Author:Charles Mackay (1814-1889)|Charles Mackay]]
*[http://www.archive.org/details/mormoncountrysum00codmrich The Mormon country : a summer with the &quot;Latter-Day Saints.&quot;], 1874 by [[Author:John Codman|John Codman]]
*[http://www.archive.org/details/ayoungfolkshisto16534gut A Young Folks' History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints], 1889 by [[Author:Nephi Anderson|Nephi Anderson]]
*[http://www.archive.org/details/latterdaysaintsw00willrich Latter Day Saints; who are they?], 1902 by [[Author:T. W. Williams|T. W. Williams]]
*[[The Story of Mormonism]], 1914 by [[Author:James E. Talmage|James E. Talmage]]
*[[History of the Church|History of the Church]]
*[[History of the Life of Joseph Smith|History of the Life of Joseph Smith (1832)]]
*[[Reed Peck manuscript|Reed Peck manuscript]]
*[[J. M. Grant's RIGDON|J. M. Grant's RIGDON]]
*[[Oration Delivered by Mr. S. Rigdon on the 4th of July at Far West, Caldwell County, Missouri|Oration Delivered by Mr. S. Rigdon on the 4th of July at Far West, Caldwell County, Missouri]]
*[[Slavery, Blacks, and the priesthood|Slavery, Blacks, and the Priesthood]]
*[[An Address to All Believers in Christ|An Address to All Believers in Christ]] by [[Author:David Whitmer|David Whitmer]]
*''[[History of Utah, 1540-1886]]'' by [[Author:Hubert Howe Bancroft|Hubert Howe Bancroft]]
* ''[[The Theory of Evolution as an Aid to Faith and God and Belief in the Resurrection]]'' (1911) by [[William Henry Chamberlin (1870-1921) |William Henry Chamberlin]]
* [[Mormonism]]: a lecture delivered before the Mercantile Library Association of Charleston, S. C.  (1853) by [[Author:Benjamin M. Palmer|Benjamin M. Palmer]]

====The Exodus====
* “[http://books.google.com/books?id=lOwGAAAAYAAJ&amp;pg=PA63 Mormons]” from Buechler, August F., Robert J. Barr, and Dale P. Stough, eds. History of Hall County, Nebraska: A Narrative of the Past. Lincoln, Nebraska: Western Publishing &amp; Engraving Co., 1920. Pages 63-64.
* {{Littell's link|The Mormon Camp|volume=10}}

===Reference works===
*''[[A Dictionary of the Book of Mormon]]'' by [[Author:George Reynolds|George Reynolds]]

===Encyclopedia articles===
* {{AmCyc link|Mormons|author=[[Author:Robert Carter|Robert Carter]]}}
* {{EB9 link|Mormons|author=[[Author:John Fraser|John Fraser]]|volume=16}}
* {{Appletons' link|Spaulding, Solomon|year=1900}}
* {{NIE Link|Mormons|year=1905|author=[[Author:I. Woodbridge Riley|I. Woodbridge Riley]]}}
* {{EB1911 link|Mormons}}
* {{EB1911 link|Nauvoo}}
* {{CE link|Mormons|author=W. R. Harris}}
* {{NSRW link|Mormons}}
* {{Americana link|Mormons}}
* {{Collier's link|Mormons}}

===Magazine articles===
*[[Historical Magazine (second series)/Volume 7/May 1870/Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith|Historical Magazine (second series)/Volume 7/May 1870/Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith]]
*[[Tiffany's Monthly/Volume 5/Number 4/Mormonism--No. II|Tiffany's Monthly/Volume 5/Number 4/Mormonism--No. II]]
*{{PSM link|Mormonism from a Mormon Point of View|10|December 1876}}
*“[[The United States Democratic Review/Volume 43/Issue 2/What Can Be Done with the Mormons?|What Can Be Done with the Mormons?]]” in ''[[The United States Democratic Review]]'', [[The United States Democratic Review/Volume 43|v. 43]], [[The United States Democratic Review/Volume 43/Issue 2|no. 2]] (October 1859)

===Newspaper articles===
*[[Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate/Volume 2/Number 1/Letter VIII|Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate, Volume 2, Number 1, Letter VIII]]
* [[Testimony against Chauncey L. Higbee]] (May 9, 1844)
*''[[Nauvoo Expositor]]'', v. 1, no. 1 (June 7, 1844)

===Interviews===
*[[Edmund L. Kelley interview with Lorenzo Saunders (1884)|Edmund L. Kelley interview with Lorenzo Saunders (1884)]]
*[[Peter Bauder interview with Joseph Smith|Peter Bauder interview with Joseph Smith]] October 1830
*[[Joseph Smith Jr. Interview with David Nye White (29 August 1843)|Joseph Smith Jr. Interview with David Nye White (29 August 1843)]]
*[[Historical Magazine (second series)/Volume 7/May 1870/Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith|Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith]] as it appeared in the [[Historical Magazine (second series)|Historical Magazine]] (May 1870)

===Correspondence===
*[[The Wentworth Letter|The Wentworth Letter]] (1842)
*[[The Rupp Letter|The Rupp Letter]] (1844)
*[[Letter from Jesse Smith to Hyrum Smith (17 June 1829)|Letter from Jesse Smith to Hyrum Smith (17 June 1829)]]
*[[Letter from Joseph Smith to Sidney Rigdon (27 March 1843)|Letter from Joseph Smith to Sidney Rigdon (27 March 1843)]]
*[[Letter from Joseph Smith to Thomas Ford (1 January 1844)|Letter from Joseph Smith to Thomas Ford (1 January 1844)]]
*[[Letter from Joseph Smith to Thomas Ford (14 June 1844)|Letter from Joseph Smith to Thomas Ford (14 June 1844)]]
*[[Letter from Joseph Smith to the Whitneys (18 August 1842)|Letter from Joseph Smith to the Whitneys (18 August 1842)]]
*[[Letter from Lucius Fenn to Birdseye Bronson (12 February 1830)|Letter from Lucius Fenn to Birdseye Bronson (12 February 1830)]]
*[[Letters by Oliver Cowdery|Letters by Oliver Cowdery to W.W. Phelps on the Rise of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]

===Diaries and Biographies===
*[[Diary of Joseph Smith, Jr. (1832-1834)|Diary of Joseph Smith, Jr. (1832-1834)]]
*[[Diary of Joseph Smith, Jr. (1835-1836)|Diary of Joseph Smith, Jr. (1835-1836)]]
*[[Biography and family record of Lorenzo Snow|Biography and family record of Lorenzo Snow]]

==Sects==
===RLDS===
===Stangite===
* Book of the Law of the Lord {{esl|https://archive.org/details/bookoflawoflord0000vari/}}
* ''[[A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons on Beaver Island]]'' (1905)

==LDS Authors==
===LDS Presidents===
#[[Author:Joseph Smith, Jr.|Joseph Smith, Jr.]]
#[[Author:Brigham Young|Brigham Young]]
#[[Author:John Taylor (Latter Day Saints)|John Taylor]]
#[[Author:Wilford Woodruff|Wilford Woodruff]]
#[[Author:Lorenzo Snow|Lorenzo Snow]]
#[[Author:Joseph F. Smith|Joseph F. Smith]]

===Other===
*[[Author:Ezra T. Benson|Ezra T. Benson]]
*[[Author:Ralph Vary Chamberlin|Ralph Vary Chamberlin]]
*[[William Henry Chamberlin (1870-1921) |William Henry Chamberlin]]
*[[Author:Jedediah M. Grant|Jedediah M. Grant]]
*[[Author:George A. Smith|George A. Smith]]
*[[Author:Orson Hyde|Orson Hyde]]
*[[Author:Amasa Lyman|Amasa Lyman]]
*[[Author:Orson Pratt|Orson Pratt]]
*[[Author:Parley P. Pratt|Parley P. Pratt]]
*[[Author:Charles Coulson Rich|Charles C. Rich]]
*[[Author:Franklin D. Richards|Franklin D. Richards]]
*[[Author:Sidney Rigdon|Sidney Rigdon]]
*[[Author:Eliza Roxcy Snow|Eliza Roxcy Snow]]
*[[Author:Erastus Snow|Erastus Snow]]
*[[Author:Daniel H. Wells|Daniel H. Wells]]
*[[Author:David Whitmer|David Whitmer]]

==Criticism of Mormonism==
* ''[[Mormonism Unvailed]]'' (1834) by Eber D. Howe
* ''The History of the Saints'' by [[Author:John Cook Bennett|John C. Bennett]] {{ssl|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
* ''Mormonism Portrayed'' (1841) by William Harris
* ''[[Utah and the Mormons]]'' (1854) by [[Author:Benjamin G. Ferris|Benjamin G. Ferris]]
* ''[[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]'' (1857) by John Hyde, Jr.
* ''The Mormon Prophet and His Harem'' (1866) by C. V. Waite
* ''[[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]'' (1873) by [[Author:Thomas Brown Holmes Stenhouse|T. B. H. Stenhouse]]
* ''[[Wife No. 19]]'' (1876) by [[Author:Ann Eliza Young|Ann Eliza Young]]
* ''[[Mormonism Exposed (Hancock)|Mormonism Exposed]]'' (1902) by [[Author:Golman Buford Hancock|Golman Buford Hancock]]

==See also==
* [[Portal:Christianity]]
{{Utah}}

[[Category:Wikisource index pages|Mormonism]]
[[Category:Mormonism| ]]
[[Category:Christian denominations| ]]

[[de:Mormonentum]]</text>
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      <text bytes="9489" sha1="okm3nf262slmr2gm0uoupbvfmnoonra" xml:space="preserve">{{portal header
 | title     = Mormonism
 | class     = B
 | subclass1 = X
 | reviewed  =
 | shortcut  = 
 | wikipedia = Portal:Latter-day Saints
 | commonscat = The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
 | notes     = This category lists works related to [[w:Mormonism|Mormonism]], also known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or simply &quot;LDS&quot;.
}}
[[Image:Joseph Smith first vision stained glass.jpg|right|300px|thumb|[[w:Joseph Smith|Joseph Smith]] described a vision where God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him in a grove of trees.  This event, and the belief that all men and women can learn of and know God through revelation, are fundamental tenets of Mormonism.]]

==LDS Standard Works (Scriptures)==
*[[Bible_(King_James)|The King James Version of the Bible]]
*[[The Book of Mormon]]
*[[The Pearl of Great Price]]
*[[The Doctrine and Covenants]]

==Early LDS Theological Publications==
*The [[Book of Commandments]] (1833), predecessor of The Doctrine and Covenants
*[[Patriarchal Blessings by Joseph Smith Sr Dated 1834-1840]]
*[[The Seer]], 1853 - ? by Orson Pratt
*[[Journal of Discourses]] 1854- 1886
*[[Interesting Account of Several Remarkable Visions|A Interesting Account of Several Remarkable Visions and of the Late Discovery of Ancient American Records]], 1840 by Orson Pratt
*[[Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate|Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate]]
*[[Lectures on Faith]]

===Historical and Analytical===
*[[Missouri Executive Order 44]] by Lillburn W. Boggs (1838) The extermination order.
*[http://www.archive.org/details/themormonsorlatt00mackuoft The Mormons, or Latter-day Saints. With memoirs of the life and death of Joseph Smith, the &quot;American Mahomet&quot;], 1851 by [[Author:Charles Mackay (1814-1889)|Charles Mackay]]
*[http://www.archive.org/details/mormoncountrysum00codmrich The Mormon country : a summer with the &quot;Latter-Day Saints.&quot;], 1874 by [[Author:John Codman|John Codman]]
*[http://www.archive.org/details/ayoungfolkshisto16534gut A Young Folks' History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints], 1889 by [[Author:Nephi Anderson|Nephi Anderson]]
*[http://www.archive.org/details/latterdaysaintsw00willrich Latter Day Saints; who are they?], 1902 by [[Author:T. W. Williams|T. W. Williams]]
*[[The Story of Mormonism]], 1914 by [[Author:James E. Talmage|James E. Talmage]]
*[[History of the Church|History of the Church]]
*[[History of the Life of Joseph Smith|History of the Life of Joseph Smith (1832)]]
*[[Reed Peck manuscript|Reed Peck manuscript]]
*[[J. M. Grant's RIGDON|J. M. Grant's RIGDON]]
*[[Oration Delivered by Mr. S. Rigdon on the 4th of July at Far West, Caldwell County, Missouri|Oration Delivered by Mr. S. Rigdon on the 4th of July at Far West, Caldwell County, Missouri]]
*[[Slavery, Blacks, and the priesthood|Slavery, Blacks, and the Priesthood]]
*[[An Address to All Believers in Christ|An Address to All Believers in Christ]] by [[Author:David Whitmer|David Whitmer]]
*''[[History of Utah, 1540-1886]]'' by [[Author:Hubert Howe Bancroft|Hubert Howe Bancroft]]
* ''[[The Theory of Evolution as an Aid to Faith and God and Belief in the Resurrection]]'' (1911) by [[William Henry Chamberlin (1870-1921) |William Henry Chamberlin]]
* [[Mormonism]]: a lecture delivered before the Mercantile Library Association of Charleston, S. C.  (1853) by [[Author:Benjamin M. Palmer|Benjamin M. Palmer]]

====The Exodus====
* “[http://books.google.com/books?id=lOwGAAAAYAAJ&amp;pg=PA63 Mormons]” from Buechler, August F., Robert J. Barr, and Dale P. Stough, eds. History of Hall County, Nebraska: A Narrative of the Past. Lincoln, Nebraska: Western Publishing &amp; Engraving Co., 1920. Pages 63-64.
* {{Littell's link|The Mormon Camp|volume=10}}

===Reference works===
*''[[A Dictionary of the Book of Mormon]]'' by [[Author:George Reynolds|George Reynolds]]

===Encyclopedia articles===
* {{AmCyc link|Mormons|author=[[Author:Robert Carter|Robert Carter]]}}
* {{EB9 link|Mormons|author=[[Author:John Fraser|John Fraser]]|volume=16}}
* {{Appletons' link|Spaulding, Solomon|year=1900}}
* {{NIE Link|Mormons|year=1905|author=[[Author:I. Woodbridge Riley|I. Woodbridge Riley]]}}
* {{EB1911 link|Mormons}}
* {{EB1911 link|Nauvoo}}
* {{CE link|Mormons|author=W. R. Harris}}
* {{NSRW link|Mormons}}
* {{Americana link|Mormons}}
* {{Collier's link|Mormons}}

===Magazine articles===
*[[Historical Magazine (second series)/Volume 7/May 1870/Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith|Historical Magazine (second series)/Volume 7/May 1870/Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith]]
*[[Tiffany's Monthly/Volume 5/Number 4/Mormonism--No. II|Tiffany's Monthly/Volume 5/Number 4/Mormonism--No. II]]
*{{PSM link|Mormonism from a Mormon Point of View|10|December 1876}}
*“[[The United States Democratic Review/Volume 43/Issue 2/What Can Be Done with the Mormons?|What Can Be Done with the Mormons?]]” in ''[[The United States Democratic Review]]'', [[The United States Democratic Review/Volume 43|v. 43]], [[The United States Democratic Review/Volume 43/Issue 2|no. 2]] (October 1859)

===Newspaper articles===
*[[Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate/Volume 2/Number 1/Letter VIII|Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate, Volume 2, Number 1, Letter VIII]]
* [[Testimony against Chauncey L. Higbee]] (May 9, 1844)
*''[[Nauvoo Expositor]]'', v. 1, no. 1 (June 7, 1844)

===Interviews===
*[[Edmund L. Kelley interview with Lorenzo Saunders (1884)|Edmund L. Kelley interview with Lorenzo Saunders (1884)]]
*[[Peter Bauder interview with Joseph Smith|Peter Bauder interview with Joseph Smith]] October 1830
*[[Joseph Smith Jr. Interview with David Nye White (29 August 1843)|Joseph Smith Jr. Interview with David Nye White (29 August 1843)]]
*[[Historical Magazine (second series)/Volume 7/May 1870/Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith|Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith]] as it appeared in the [[Historical Magazine (second series)|Historical Magazine]] (May 1870)

===Correspondence===
*[[The Wentworth Letter|The Wentworth Letter]] (1842)
*[[The Rupp Letter|The Rupp Letter]] (1844)
*[[Letter from Jesse Smith to Hyrum Smith (17 June 1829)|Letter from Jesse Smith to Hyrum Smith (17 June 1829)]]
*[[Letter from Joseph Smith to Sidney Rigdon (27 March 1843)|Letter from Joseph Smith to Sidney Rigdon (27 March 1843)]]
*[[Letter from Joseph Smith to Thomas Ford (1 January 1844)|Letter from Joseph Smith to Thomas Ford (1 January 1844)]]
*[[Letter from Joseph Smith to Thomas Ford (14 June 1844)|Letter from Joseph Smith to Thomas Ford (14 June 1844)]]
*[[Letter from Joseph Smith to the Whitneys (18 August 1842)|Letter from Joseph Smith to the Whitneys (18 August 1842)]]
*[[Letter from Lucius Fenn to Birdseye Bronson (12 February 1830)|Letter from Lucius Fenn to Birdseye Bronson (12 February 1830)]]
*[[Letters by Oliver Cowdery|Letters by Oliver Cowdery to W.W. Phelps on the Rise of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]

===Diaries and Biographies===
*[[Diary of Joseph Smith, Jr. (1832-1834)|Diary of Joseph Smith, Jr. (1832-1834)]]
*[[Diary of Joseph Smith, Jr. (1835-1836)|Diary of Joseph Smith, Jr. (1835-1836)]]
*[[Biography and family record of Lorenzo Snow|Biography and family record of Lorenzo Snow]]

==Sects==
===RLDS===
===Stangite===
* Book of the Law of the Lord {{esl|https://archive.org/details/bookoflawoflord0000vari/}}
* ''[[A Moses of the Mormons]]'' (1897)
* ''[[A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons on Beaver Island]]'' (1905)

==LDS Authors==
===LDS Presidents===
#[[Author:Joseph Smith, Jr.|Joseph Smith, Jr.]]
#[[Author:Brigham Young|Brigham Young]]
#[[Author:John Taylor (Latter Day Saints)|John Taylor]]
#[[Author:Wilford Woodruff|Wilford Woodruff]]
#[[Author:Lorenzo Snow|Lorenzo Snow]]
#[[Author:Joseph F. Smith|Joseph F. Smith]]

===Other===
*[[Author:Ezra T. Benson|Ezra T. Benson]]
*[[Author:Ralph Vary Chamberlin|Ralph Vary Chamberlin]]
*[[William Henry Chamberlin (1870-1921) |William Henry Chamberlin]]
*[[Author:Jedediah M. Grant|Jedediah M. Grant]]
*[[Author:George A. Smith|George A. Smith]]
*[[Author:Orson Hyde|Orson Hyde]]
*[[Author:Amasa Lyman|Amasa Lyman]]
*[[Author:Orson Pratt|Orson Pratt]]
*[[Author:Parley P. Pratt|Parley P. Pratt]]
*[[Author:Charles Coulson Rich|Charles C. Rich]]
*[[Author:Franklin D. Richards|Franklin D. Richards]]
*[[Author:Sidney Rigdon|Sidney Rigdon]]
*[[Author:Eliza Roxcy Snow|Eliza Roxcy Snow]]
*[[Author:Erastus Snow|Erastus Snow]]
*[[Author:Daniel H. Wells|Daniel H. Wells]]
*[[Author:David Whitmer|David Whitmer]]

==Criticism of Mormonism==
* ''[[Mormonism Unvailed]]'' (1834) by Eber D. Howe
* ''The History of the Saints'' by [[Author:John Cook Bennett|John C. Bennett]] {{ssl|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
* ''Mormonism Portrayed'' (1841) by William Harris
* ''[[Utah and the Mormons]]'' (1854) by [[Author:Benjamin G. Ferris|Benjamin G. Ferris]]
* ''[[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]'' (1857) by John Hyde, Jr.
* ''The Mormon Prophet and His Harem'' (1866) by C. V. Waite
* ''[[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]'' (1873) by [[Author:Thomas Brown Holmes Stenhouse|T. B. H. Stenhouse]]
* ''[[Wife No. 19]]'' (1876) by [[Author:Ann Eliza Young|Ann Eliza Young]]
* ''[[Mormonism Exposed (Hancock)|Mormonism Exposed]]'' (1902) by [[Author:Golman Buford Hancock|Golman Buford Hancock]]

==See also==
* [[Portal:Christianity]]
{{Utah}}

[[Category:Wikisource index pages|Mormonism]]
[[Category:Mormonism| ]]
[[Category:Christian denominations| ]]

[[de:Mormonentum]]</text>
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    <title>The Beaux Stratagem</title>
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{{header
 | title      = The Beaux Stratagem
 | author     = George Farquhar
 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1707
 | notes      = 
}}
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{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu&quot; include=9 /&gt;
{{AuxTOC|title=Contents|
* [[/Prologue|Prologue. Spoken by Mr. Wilks]]
* [[/Epilogue|An Epilogue, design'd to be spoke in the Beaux Stratagem]]
* [[/Dramatis Personae|Dramatis Personæ]]
* [[/Act 1 Scene 1|Act I, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 2 Scene 1|Act II, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 2 Scene 2|Act II, Scene II.]]
* [[/Act 3 Scene 1|Act III, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 3 Scene 2|Act III, Scene II.]]
* [[/Act 3 Scene 3|Act III, Scene III.]]
* [[/Act 4 Scene 1|Act IV, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 1|Act V, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 2|Act V, Scene II.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 3|Act V, Scene III.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 4|Act V, Scene IV.]]
}}

{{PD-old}}
{{authority control}}

==ACT V., SCENE II.==

A Bedchamber in Lady Bountiful's House. Mrs. Sullen and Dorinda discovered undressed; a table and lights.

Dor. 'Tis very late, sister, no news of your spouse yet?

Mrs. Sul. No, I'm condemned to be alone till towards four, and then perhaps I may be executed with his company.

Dor. Well, my dear, I'll leave you to your rest; you 'll go directly to bed, I suppose?

Mrs. Sul. I don't know what to do.—Heigh-ho!

Dor. That's a desiring sigh, sister.

Mrs. Sul. This is a languishing hour, sister.

Dor. And might prove a critical minute if the pretty fellow were here. 

Mrs. Sul. Here! what, in my bedchamber at two o'clock o' th' morning, I undressed, the family asleep, my hated husband abroad, and my lovely fellow at my feet!—O 'gad, sister!

Dor. Thoughts are free, sister, and them I allow you.— So, my dear, good night.

Mrs. Sul. A good rest to my dear Dorinda!—[Exit Dorinda.] Thoughts free! are they so? Why, then, suppose him here, dressed like a youthful, gay, and burning bridegroom--

[Here Archer steals out of a closet behind. 

with tongue enchanting, eyes bewitching, knees imploring--

[Turns a little on one side and sees Archer in the posture she describes.]—Ah!—[Shrieks, and runs to the other side of the stage.] Have my thoughts raised a spirit?—What are you, sir, a man or a devil?

Arch. A man, a man, madam. [Rising.

Mrs. Sul. How shall I be sure of it?

Arch. Madam, I'll give you demonstration this minute.

[Takes her hand.

Mrs. Sul. What, sir! do you intend to be rude? 

Arch. Yes, madam, if you please.

Mrs. Sul. In the name of wonder, whence came ye?

Arch. From the skies, madam—I'm a Jupiter in love, and you shall be my Alcmena.

Mrs. Sul. How came you in?

Arch. I flew in at the window, madam; your cousin Cupid lent me his wings, and your sister Venus opened the casement.

Mrs. Sul. I 'm struck dumb with wonder! 

Arch. And I—with admiration!

[Looks passionately at her.

Mrs. Sul. What will become of me?

Arch. How beautiful she looks!—The teeming jolly Spring smiles in her blooming face, and, when she was conceived, her mother smelt to roses, looked on lilies—

Lilies unfold their white, their fragrant charms,
When the warm sun thus darts into their arms.

[Runs to her.

Mrs. Sul. Ah! [Shrieks.

Arch. 'Oons, madam, what d' ye mean? you 'll raise the house. 

Mrs. Sul. Sir, I 'll wake the dead before I bear this!— What! approach me with the freedom of a keeper! I'm glad on't, your impudence has cured me.

Arch. If this be impudence—[Kneels.] I leave to your partial self; no panting pilgrim, after a tedious, painful voyage, e'er bowed before his saint with more devotion. 

Mrs. Sul. [Aside.] Now, now, I 'm ruined if he kneels! —[Aloud.] Rise, thou prostrate engineer, not all thy undermining skill shall reach my heart.—Rise, and know I am a woman without my sex; I can love to all the tenderness of wishes, sighs, and tears —but go no farther.—Still, to convince you-that I'm more than woman, I can speak my frailty, confess my weakness even for you, but—

Arch. For me! [Going to lay hold on her.

Mrs. Sul. Hold, sir! build not upon that; for my most mortal hatred follows if you disobey what I command you now.—Leave me this minute.—[Aside.] If he denies I 'm lost. 

Arch. Then you'll promise—

Mrs. Sul. Anything another time.

Arch. When shall I come?

Mrs. Sul. To-morrow—when you will.

Arch. Your lips must seal the promise.

Mrs. Sul. Psha!

Arch. They must! they must! [Kisses her.] —Raptures and paradise!—And why not now, my angel? the time, the place, silence, and secrecy, all conspire. And the now conscious stars have preordained this moment for my happiness. [Takes her in his arms.

Mrs. Sul. You will not! cannot, sure! 

Arch. If the sun rides fast, and disappoints not mortals of to-morrow's dawn, this night shall crown my joys.

Mrs. Sul. My sex's pride assist me!

Arch. My sex's strength help me!

Mrs. Sul. You shall kill me first!

Arch. I'll die with you. [Carrying her off.

Mrs. Sul. Thieves! thieves! murder! 

Enter Scrub in his breeches, and one shoe.

Scrub. Thieves! thieves! murder! popery!

Arch. Ha! the very timorous stag will kill in rutting time. [Draws, and offers to stab Scrub.

Scrub. [Kneeling.] O pray, sir, spare all I have, and take my life!

Mrs. Sul. [Holding Archer's hand.] What does the fellow mean?

Scrub. O madam, down upon your knees, your marrow-bones! —he's one of 'em. 

Arch. Of whom?

Scrub. One of the rogues—I beg your pardon, one of the honest gentlemen that just now are broke into the house.

Arch. How!

Mrs. Sul. I hope you did not come to rob me?

Arch. Indeed I did, madam, but I would have taken nothing but what you might ha' spared; but your crying &quot;Thieves&quot; has waked this dreaming fool, and so he takes 'em for granted. 

Scrub. Granted! 'tis granted, sir; take all we have.

Mrs. Sul. The fellow looks as if he were broke out of Bedlam.

Scrub. 'Oons, madam, they 're broke into the house with fire and sword! I saw them, heard them; they 'll be here this minute.

Arch. What, thieves!

Scrub. Under favour, sir, I think so.

Mrs. Sul. What shall we do, sir?

Arch. Madam, I wish your ladyship a good night.

Mrs. Sul. Will you leave me?

Arch. Leave you! Lord, madam, did not you command me to be gone just now, upon pain of your immortal hatred?

Mrs. Sul. Nay, but pray, sir-- [Takes hold of him.

Arch. Ha! ha! ha! now comes my turn to be ravished. —You see now, madam, you must use men one way or other; but take this by the way; good madam, that none but a fool will give you the benefit of his courage, unless you'll take his love along with it. —How are they armed, friend? 

Scrub. With sword and pistol, sir.

Arch. Hush!—I see a dark lantern coming through the gallery—Madam, be assured I will protect you, or lose my life.

Mrs. Sul. Your life! no, sir, they can rob me of nothing that I value half so much; therefore now, sir, let me entreat you to be gone. 

Arch. No, madam, I'll consult my own safety for the sake of yours; I 'll work by stratagem. Have you courage enough to stand the appearance of 'em?

Mrs. Sul. Yes, yes, since I have 'scaped your hands, I can face anything.

Arch. Come hither, brother Scrub! don't you know me?

Scrub. Eh, my dear brother, let me kiss thee.

[Kisses Archer.

Arch. This way—here--

[Archer and Scrub hide behind the bed.

Enter Gibbet, with a dark lantern in one hand, and a pistol in the other.

Gib. Ay, ay, this is the chamber, and the lady alone.

Mrs. Sul. Who are you, sir? what would you have? d' ye come to rob me? 

Gib. Rob you! alack a day, madam, I 'm only a younger brother, madam; and so, madam, if you make a noise, I'll shoot you through the head; but don't be afraid, madam.—[Laying his lantern and pistol upon the table.] These rings, madam; don't be concerned, madam, I have a profound respect for you, madam; your keys, madam; don't be frighted, madam, I'm the most of a gentleman. —[Searching her pockets.] This necklace, madam; I never was rude to any lady;—I have a veneration —for this necklace— [160]

[Here Archer having come round, and seized the pistol takes Gibbet by the collar, trips up his heels, and claps the pistol to his breast.

Arch. Hold, profane villain, and take the reward of thy sacrilege!

Gib. Oh! pray, sir, don't kill me; I an't prepared.

Arch. How many is there of 'em, Scrub?

Scrub. Five-and-forty, sir.

Arch. Then I must kill the villain, to have him out of the way.

Gib. Hold, hold, sir, we are but three, upon my honour.

Arch. Scrub, will you undertake to secure him?

Scrub. Not I, sir; kill him, kill him! 

Arch. Run to Gipsy's chamber, there you'll find the doctor; bring him hither presently.—[Exit Scrub, running.] Come, rogue, if you have a short prayer, say it.

Gib. Sir, I have no prayer at all; the government has provided a chaplain to say prayers for us on these occasions.

Mrs. Sul. Pray, sir, don't kill him: you fright me as much as him. 

Arch. The dog shall die, madam, for being the occasion of my disappointment.—Sirrah, this moment is your last.

Gib. Sir, I 'll give you two hundred pounds to spare my life.

Arch. Have you no more, rascal?

Gib. Yes, sir, I can command four hundred, but I must reserve two of 'em to save my life at the sessions.

Re-enter Scrub and Foigard.

Arch. Here, doctor, I suppose Scrub and you between you may manage him. Lay hold of him, doctor.

[Foigard lays hold of Gibbet.

Gib. What! turned over to the priest already!— Look 'ee, doctor, you come before your time; I an't condemned yet, I thank ye. 

Foi. Come, my dear joy; I vill secure your body and your shoul too; I vill make you a good catholic, and give you an absolution.

Gib. Absolution! can you procure me a pardon, doctor?

Foi. No, joy—

Gib. Then you and your absolution may to the devil! 

Arch. Convey him into the cellar, there bind him:— take the pistol, and if he offers to resist, shoot him through the head—and come back to us with all the speed you can.

Scrub. Ay, ay, come, doctor, do you hold him fast, and I 'll guard him.

[Exit Foigard with Gibbet, Scrub following.

Mrs. Sul. But how came the doctor—

Arch. In short, madam—[Shrieking without.] 'Sdeath! the rogues are at work with the other ladies—I'm vexed I parted with the pistol; but I must fly to their assistance.—Will you stay here, madam, or venture yourself with me? 

Mrs. Sul. [Taking him by the arm.] Oh, with you, dear sir, with you. [Exeunt.


==ACT V., SCENE III.==

Another Bedchamber in the same. Enter Hounslow and Bagshot, with swords drawn, haling in Lady Bountiful and Dorinda.

Houn. Come, come, your jewels, mistress!

Bag. Your keys, your keys, old gentlewoman!

Enter Aimwell and Cherry.

Aim. Turn this way, villains! I durst engage an army in such a cause. [He engages them both.

Dor. O madam, had I but a sword to help the brave man!

Lady Boun. There's three or four hanging up in the hall; but they won't draw. I 'll go fetch one, however. [Exit.

Enter Archer and Mrs. Sullen.

Arch. Hold, hold, my lord! every man his bird, pray. [They engage man to man; Hounslow and Bagshot are thrown and disarmed.

Cher. [Aside.] What! the rogues taken! then they'll impeach my father: I must give him timely notice.

[Runs out.

Arch. Shall we kill the rogues?

Aim. No, no, we 'll bind them.

Arch. Ay, ay.—[To Mrs. Sullen, who stands by him.] Here, madam, lend me your garter.

Mrs. Sul. [Aside.] The devil's in this fellow! he fights, loves, and banters, all in a breath.—[Aloud.] Here's a cord that the rogues brought with 'em, I suppose. 

Arch. Right, right, the rogue's destiny, a rope to hang himself.—Come, my lord—this is but a scandalous sort of an office [Binding the Highwaymen together.] if our adventures should end in this sort of hangman-work; but I hope there is something in prospect, that—

Enter Scrub.

Arch. Well, Scrub, have you secured your Tartar?

Scrub. Yes, sir, I left the priest and him disputing about religion.

Aim. And pray carry these gentlemen to reap the benefit of the controversy. 

[Delivers the prisoners to Scrubs who leads them out.

Mrs. Sul. Pray, sister, how came my lord here?

Dor. And pray, how came the gentleman here?

Mrs. Sul. I'll tell you the greatest piece of villainy—

[They talk in dumb show.

Aim. I fancy, Archer, you have been more successful in your adventures than the housebreakers.

Arch. No matter for my adventure, yours is the principal.—Press her this minute to marry you—now while she's hurried between the palpitation of her fear and the joy of her deliverance, now while the tide of her spirits is at high-flood—throw yourself at her feet, speak some romantic nonsense or other —address her, like Alexander in the height of his victory, confound her senses, bear down her reason, and away with her.—The priest is now in the cellar, and dare not refuse to do the work.

Re-enter Lady Bountiful.

Aim. But how shall I get off without being observed?

Arch. You a lover, and not find a way to get off!—Let me see—

Aim. You bleed, Archer. 

Arch. 'Sdeath, I'm glad on 't; this wound will do the business. I'll amuse the old lady and Mrs. Sullen about dressing my wound, while you carry off Dorinda.

Lady Boun. Gentlemen, could we understand how you would be gratified for the services—

Arch. Come, come, my lady, this is no time for compliments; I 'm wounded, madam.

Lady Boun., Mrs. Sut. How! wounded!

Dor. I hope, sir, you have received no hurt? 

Aim. None but what you may cure——

[Makes love in dumb show.

Lady Boun. Let me see your arm, sir—I must have some powder-sugar to stop the blood.—O me! an ugly gash; upon my word, sir, you must go into bed.

Arch. Ay, my lady, a bed would do very well.—[To Mrs. Sullen.] Madam, will you do me the favour to conduct me to a chamber.

Lady Boun. Do, do, daughter—while I get the lint and the probe and the plaster ready.

[Runs out one way, Aimwell carries off Dorinda another.

[116]Arch. Come, madam, why don't you obey your mother's commands? 

Mrs. Sul. How can you, after what is passed, have the confidence to ask me?

Arch. And if you go to that, how can you, after what is passed, have the confidence to deny me? Was not this blood shed in your defence, and my life exposed for your protection? Look 'ee, madam, I 'm none of your romantic fools, that fight giants and monsters for nothing; my valour is downright Swiss; I'm a soldier of fortune, and must be paid.' 

Mrs. Sul. 'Tis ungenerous in you, sir, to upbraid me with your services!

Arch. 'Tis ungenerous in you, madam, not to reward 'em.

Mrs. Sul. How! at the expense of my honour?

Arch. Honour! can honour consist with ingratitude? If you would deal like a woman of honour, do like a man of honour. D' ye think I would deny you in such a case?

Enter a Servant.

Serv. Madam, my lady ordered me to tell you, that your brother is below at the gate. [Exit.

Mrs. Sul. My brother! Heavens be praised!—Sir, he shall thank you for your services; he has it in his power. 

Arch. Who is your brother, madam?

Mrs. Sul. Sir Charles Freeman.—You'll excuse me, sir; I must go and receive him. [Exit.

Arch. Sir Charles Freeman! 'sdeath and hell! my old acquaintance. Now unless Aimwell has made good use of his time, all our fair machine goes souse into the sea like the Eddystone. [Exit.


==ACT V., SCENE IV.==

The Gallery in the same house. Enter Aimwell and Dorinda.

Dor. Well, well, my lord, you have conquered; your late generous action will, I hope, plead for my easy yielding; though I must own, your lordship had a friend in the fort before.

Aim. The sweets of Hybla dwell upon her tongue!— Here, doctor—

Enter Foigard with a book.

Foi. Are you prepared boat?

Dor. I 'm ready. But first, my lord, one word.—I have a frightful example of a hasty marriage in my own family; when I reflect upon't it shocks me. Pray, my lord, consider a little— 

Aim. Consider! do you doubt my honour or my love?

Dor. Neither: I do believe you equally just as brave: and were your whole sex drawn out forme to choose, I should not cast a look upon the multitude if you were absent. But, my lord, I'm a woman; colours, concealments may hide a thousand faults in me, therefore know me better first; I hardly dare affirm I know myself in anything except my love. 

Aim. [Aside,] Such goodness who could injure! I find myself unequal to the task of villain; she has gained my soul, and made it honest like her own.— I cannot, cannot hurt her.—[Aloud.] Doctor, retire. —[Exit Foigard] Madam, behold your lover and your proselyte, and judge of my passion by my conversion!—I'm all a lie, nor dare I give a fiction to your arms; I 'm all counterfeit, except my passion.

Dor. Forbid it, Heaven! a counterfeit! 

Aim. I am no lord, but a poor needy man, come with a mean, a scandalous design to prey upon your fortune; but the beauties of your mind and person have so won me from myself that, like a trusty servant, I prefer the interest of my mistress to my own.

Dor. Sure I have had the dream of some poor mariner, a sleepy image of a welcome port, and wake involved in storms!—Pray, sir, who are you?

Aim. Brother to the man whose title I usurped, but stranger to his honour or his fortune. 

Dor. Matchless honesty!—Once I was proud, sir, of your wealth and title, but now am prouder that you want it: now I can show my love was justly levelled, and had no aim but love.—Doctor, come in.

Enter Foigard at one door, Gipsy at another-, who whispers Dorinda.

[To Foigard.] Your pardon, sir, we shan't want you now.—[To Aimwell.] Sir, you must excuse me—I 'll wait on you presently. [Exit with Gipsy.

Foi. Upon my shoul, now, dis is foolish. [Exit.

Aim. Gone! and bid the priest depart!—It has an ominous look.

Enter Archer.

Arch. Courage, Tom!—Shall I wish you joy? 

Aim. No.

Arch. 'Oons, man, what ha' you been doing?

Aim. O Archer! my honesty, I fear, has ruined me.

Arch. How?

Aim. I have discovered myself.

Arch. Discovered! and without my consent? What! have I embarked my small remains in the same bottom with yours, and you dispose of all without my partnership?

Aim. O Archer! I own my fault. 

Arch. After conviction—'tis then too late for pardon.— You may remember, Mr. Aimwell, that you proposed this folly: as you begun, so end it. Henceforth I 'll hunt my fortune single—so farewell!

Aim. Stay, my dear Archer, but a minute.

Arch. Stay! what, to be despised, exposed, and laughed at! No, I would sooner change conditions with the worst of the rogues we just now bound, than bear one scornful smile from the proud knight that once I treated as my equal. 

Aim. What knight?

Arch. Sir Charles Freeman, brother to the lady that I had almost—but no matter for that, 'tis a cursed night's work, and so I leave you to make the best on't. [Going.

Aim. Freeman!—One word, Archer. Still I have hopes; methought she received my confession with pleasure.

Arch. 'Sdeath, who doubts it?

Aim. She consented after to the match; and still I dare believe she will be just. 

Arch. To herself, I warrant her, as you should have been.

Aim. By all my hopes she comes, and smiling comes!

Re-enter Dorinda, mighty gay.

Dor. Come, my dear lord—I fly with impatience to your arms—the minutes of my absence were a tedious year. Where's this priest?

Re-enter Foigard.

Arch. 'Oons, a brave girl!

Dor. I suppose, my lord, this gentleman is privy to our affairs? 

Arch. Yes, yes, madam, I'm to be your father.

Dor. Come, priest, do your office.

Arch. Make haste, make haste, couple 'em any way.— [Takes Aimwells hand.] Come, madam, I'm to give you—

Dor. My mind's altered; I won't.

Arch. Eh!

Aim. I 'm confounded!

Foi. Upon my shoul, and sho is myshelf.

Arch. What 's the matter now, madam? 

Dor. Look'ee, sir, one generous action deserves another. —This gentleman's honour obliged him to hide nothing from me; my justice engages me to conceal nothing from him. In short, sir, you are the person that you thought you counterfeited; you are the true Lord Viscount Aimwell, and I wish your Lordship joy.—Now, priest, you may be gone; if my Lord is pleased now with the match, let his Lordship marry me in the face of the world.

Aim., Arch. What does she mean? 

Dor. Here's a witness for my truth.

Enter Sir Charles Freeman and Mrs Sullen.

Sir Chas. My dear Lord Aimwell, I wish you joy.

Aim. Of what?

Sir Chas. Of your honour and estate. Your brother died the day before I left London; and all your friends have writ after you to Brussels;—among the rest I did myself the honour.

Arch. Hark 'ee, sir knight, don't you banter now?

Sir Chas. 'Tis truth, upon my honour.

Aim. Thanks to the pregnant stars that formed this accident! 

Arch. Thanks to the womb of time that brought it forth!—away with it!

Aim. Thanks to my guardian angel that led me to the prize! [Taking Dorinda's hand].

Arch. And double thanks to the noble Sir Charles Freeman.—My Lord, I wish you joy.—My Lady, I wish you joy.—Egad, Sir Freeman, you're the honestest fellow living!—'Sdeath, I'm grown strange airy upon this matter!—My Lord, how d'ye?—A word, my Lord; don't you remember something of a previous agreement, that entitles me to the moiety of this lady's fortune, which I think will amount to five thousand pounds?

Aim. Not a penny, Archer; you would ha' cut my throat just now, because I would not deceive this lady.

Arch. Ay, and I 'll cut your throat again, if you should deceive her now. 

Aim. That's what I expected; and to end the dispute, the lady's fortune is ten thousand pounds, we'll divide stakes: take the ten thousand pounds or the lady.

Dor. How! is your lordship so indifferent?

Arch. No, no, no, madam! his Lordship knows very well that I 'll take the money; I leave you to his Lordship, and so we're both provided for.

Enter Count Bellair.

Count Bel. ''Mesdames et Messieurs,'' I am your servant ''trice humble!'' I hear you be rob here.

Aim. The ladies have been in some danger, sir.

Count Bel. And, begar, our inn be rob too! 

Aim. Our inn! by whom?

Count Bel. By the landlord, begar!—Garzoon, he has rob himself, and run away!

Arch. Robbed himself!

Count Bel. Ay, begar, and me too of a hundre pound.

Arch. A hundred pounds?

Count Bel. Yes, that I owed him.

Aim. Our money's gone, Frank.

Arch. Rot the money! my wench is gone.—[To Count Bellair.] ''Savez-vous quelquechose de Mademoiselle Cherry?''

Enter a Countryman with a strong-box and a letter.

Coun. Is there one Martin here?

Arch. Ay, ay—who wants him?

Coun. I have a box here, and letter for him.

Arch. [Taking the box.] Ha! ha! ha! what's here? Legerdemain!—By this light, my lord, our money again!—But this unfolds the riddle.—[Opening the letter.] Hum, hum, hum!—Oh, 'tis for the public good, and must be communicated to the company.

[Reads.

:&quot;Mr. Martin,                

:&quot;My father being afraid of an impeachment by the rogues that are taken to-night, is gone off; but if you can procure him a pardon, he'll make great discoveries that may be useful to the country. Could I have met you instead of your master to-night, I would have delivered myself into your hands, with a sum that much exceeds that in your strong-box, which I have sent you, with an assurance to my dear Martin that I shall ever be his most faithful friend till death.
:&quot;CHERRY BONIFACE.&quot;

There's a billet-doux for you! As for the father, I think he ought to be encouraged; and for the daughter—pray, my Lord, persuade your bride to take her into her service instead of Gipsy. 

Aim. I can assure you, madam, your deliverance was owing to her discovery.

Dor. Your command, my Lord, will do without the obligation. I'll take care of her.

Sir Chas. This good company meets opportunely in favour of a design I have in behalf of my unfortunate sister. I intend to part her from her husband—gentlemen, will you assist me? 

Arch. Assist you! 'sdeath, who would not?

Count Bel. Assist! garzoon, we all assist!

Enter Squire Sullen.

Squire Sul. What 's all this? They tell me, spouse, that you had like to have been robbed.

Mrs. Sul. Truly, spouse, I was pretty near it, had not these two gentlemen interposed.

Squire Sul. How came these gentlemen here?

Mrs. Sul. That's his way of returning thanks, you must know.

Count Bel. Garzoon, the question be apropos for all dat.

Sir Chas. You promised last night, sir, that you would deliver your lady to me this morning.

Squire Sul. Humph!

Arch. Humph! what do you mean by humph? Sir, you shall deliver her—in short, sir, we have saved you and your family; and if you are not civil, we'll unbind the rogues, join with 'em, and set fire to your house. What does the man mean? not part with his wife! 

Count Bel. Ay, garzoon, de man no understan common justice.

Mrs. Sul. Hold, gentlemen, all things here must move by consent, compulsion would spoil us; let my dear and I talk the matter over, and you shall judge it between us.

Squire Sul. Let me know first who are to be our judges. Pray, sir, who are you?

Sir Chas. I am Sir Charles Freeman, come to take away your wife. 

Squire Sul. And you, good sir?

Aim. Thomas, Viscount Aimwell, come to take away your sister.

Squire Sul. And you, pray, sir?

Arch. Francis Archer, esquire, come——

Squire Sul. To take away my mother, I hope. Gentlemen, you 're heartily welcome; I never met with three more obliging people since I was born!— And now, my dear, if you please, you shall have the first word. 

Arch. And the last, for five pounds!

Mrs. Sul. Spouse!

Squire Sul. Rib!

Mrs. Sul. How long have we been married?

Squire Sul. By the almanac, fourteen months; but by my account, fourteen years.

Mrs. Sul. 'Tis thereabout by my reckoning.

Count Bel. Garzoon, their account will agree.

Mrs. Sul. Pray, spouse, what did you marry for? 

Squire Sul. To get an heir to my estate.

Sir Chas. And have you succeeded?

Squire Sul. No.

Arch. The condition fails of his side.—Pray, madam, what did you marry for?

Mrs. Sul. To support the weakness of my sex by the strength of his, and to enjoy the pleasures of an agreeable society.

Sir Chas. Are your expectations answered?

Mrs. Sul. No. 

Count Bel. A clear case! a clear case!

Sir Chas. What are the bars to your mutual contentment?

Mrs. Sul. In the first place, I can't drink ale with him.

Squire Sul. Nor can I drink tea with her.

Mrs. Sul. I can't hunt with you.

Squire Sul. Nor can I dance with you.

Mrs. Sul. I hate cocking and racing.

Squire Sul. And I abhor ombre and piquet.

Mrs. Sul. Your silence is intolerable.

Squire Sul. Your prating is worse. 

Mrs. Sul. Have we not been a perpetual offence to each other? a gnawing vulture at the heart?

Squire Sul. A frightful goblin to the sight?

Mrs. Sul. A porcupine to the feeling?

Squire Sul. Perpetual wormwood to the taste?

Mrs. Sul. Is there on earth a thing we could agree in?

Squire Sul. Yes—-to part.

Mrs. Sul. With all my heart

Squire Sul. Your hand.

Mrs. Sul. Here. 

Squire Sul. These hands joined us, these shall part us. —Away!

Mrs. Sul. North

Squire Sul. South.

Mrs. Sul. East.

Squire Sul. West—-far as the poles asunder.

Count Bel. Begar, the ceremony be vera pretty!

Sir Chas. Now, Mr. Sullen, there wants only my sister's fortune to make us easy.

Squire Sul. Sir Charles, you love your sister, and I love her fortune; every one to his fancy. 

Arch. Then you won't refund?

Squire Sul. Not a stiver.

Arch. Then I find, madam, you must e'en go to your prison again.

Count Bel. What is the portion?

Sir Chas. Ten thousand pounds, sir.

Count Bel. Garzoon, I 'll pay it, and she shall go home wid me. 

Arch. Ha! ha! ha! French all over.— Do you know, sir, what ten thousand pounds English is?

Count Bel. No, begar, not ''justement.''

Arch. Why, sir, 'tis a hundred thousand ''livres.''

Count Bel. A hundre tousand ''livres''! Ah! garzoon, me canno' do't, your beauties and their fortunes are both too much for me.

Arch. Then I will.—This night's adventure has proved strangely lucky to us all—for Captain Gibbet in his walk had made bold, Mr. Sullen, with your study and escritoir, and had taken out all the writings of your estate, all the articles of marriage with this lady, bills, bonds, leases, receipts to an infinite value: I took 'em from him, and I deliver 'em to Sir Charles.

[Gives Sir Charles Freeman a parcel of papers and parchments.

Squire Sul. How, my writings!—my head aches consumedly.—Well, gentlemen, you shall have her fortune, but I can't talk. If you have a mind, Sir Charles, to be merry, and celebrate my sister's wedding and my divorce, you may command my house—but my head aches consumedly.—Scrub, bring me a dram.

Arch. [To Mrs. Sullen.] Madam, there's a country dance to the trifle that I sung to-day; your hand, and we'll lead it up.

[Here a Dance.

Twould be hard to guess which of these parties is the better pleased, the couple joined, or the couple parted; the one rejoicing in hopes of an untasted happiness, and the other in their deliverance from an experienced misery. 

:Both happy in their several states we find, 
:Those parted by consent, and those conjoined. 
:Consent, if mutual, saves the lawyer's fee. 
:Consent is law enough to set you free.

[Exeunt omnes.

==EPILOGUE==
Designed to be spoken in ''The Beaux-Stratagem''.

:If to our play your judgment can't be kind, 
:Let its expiring author pity find: 
:Survey his mournful case with melting eyes, 
:Nor let the bard be damn'd before he dies. 
:Forbear, you fair, on his last scene to frown, 
:But his true exit with a plaudit crown; 
:Then shall the dying poet cease to fear 
:The dreadful knell, while your applause he hear. 
:At Leuctra so the conquering Theban died, 
:Claim'd his friends' praises, but their tears denied: 
:Pleased in the pangs of death he greatly thought 
:Conquest with loss of life but cheaply bought 
:The difference this, the Greek was one would fight 
:As brave, though not so gay, as Serjeant Kite; 
:Ye sons of Will's, what's that to those who write? 
:To Thebes alone the Grecian owed his bays, 
:You may the bard above the hero raise, 
:Since yours is greater than Athenian praise.

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{{header
 | title      = The Beaux Stratagem
 | author     = George Farquhar
 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1707
 | notes      = 
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu&quot; include=7 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu&quot; include=9 /&gt;
{{AuxTOC|title=Contents|
* [[/Prologue|Prologue. Spoken by Mr. Wilks]]
* [[/Epilogue|An Epilogue, design'd to be spoke in the Beaux Stratagem]]
* [[/Dramatis Personae|Dramatis Personæ]]
* [[/Act 1 Scene 1|Act I, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 2 Scene 1|Act II, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 2 Scene 2|Act II, Scene II.]]
* [[/Act 3 Scene 1|Act III, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 3 Scene 2|Act III, Scene II.]]
* [[/Act 3 Scene 3|Act III, Scene III.]]
* [[/Act 4 Scene 1|Act IV, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 1|Act V, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 2|Act V, Scene II.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 3|Act V, Scene III.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 4|Act V, Scene IV.]]
}}

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{{authority control}}

==ACT V., SCENE II.==

A Bedchamber in Lady Bountiful's House. Mrs. Sullen and Dorinda discovered undressed; a table and lights.

Dor. 'Tis very late, sister, no news of your spouse yet?

Mrs. Sul. No, I'm condemned to be alone till towards four, and then perhaps I may be executed with his company.

Dor. Well, my dear, I'll leave you to your rest; you 'll go directly to bed, I suppose?

Mrs. Sul. I don't know what to do.—Heigh-ho!

Dor. That's a desiring sigh, sister.

Mrs. Sul. This is a languishing hour, sister.

Dor. And might prove a critical minute if the pretty fellow were here. 

Mrs. Sul. Here! what, in my bedchamber at two o'clock o' th' morning, I undressed, the family asleep, my hated husband abroad, and my lovely fellow at my feet!—O 'gad, sister!

Dor. Thoughts are free, sister, and them I allow you.— So, my dear, good night.

Mrs. Sul. A good rest to my dear Dorinda!—[Exit Dorinda.] Thoughts free! are they so? Why, then, suppose him here, dressed like a youthful, gay, and burning bridegroom--

[Here Archer steals out of a closet behind. 

with tongue enchanting, eyes bewitching, knees imploring--

[Turns a little on one side and sees Archer in the posture she describes.]—Ah!—[Shrieks, and runs to the other side of the stage.] Have my thoughts raised a spirit?—What are you, sir, a man or a devil?

Arch. A man, a man, madam. [Rising.

Mrs. Sul. How shall I be sure of it?

Arch. Madam, I'll give you demonstration this minute.

[Takes her hand.

Mrs. Sul. What, sir! do you intend to be rude? 

Arch. Yes, madam, if you please.

Mrs. Sul. In the name of wonder, whence came ye?

Arch. From the skies, madam—I'm a Jupiter in love, and you shall be my Alcmena.

Mrs. Sul. How came you in?

Arch. I flew in at the window, madam; your cousin Cupid lent me his wings, and your sister Venus opened the casement.

Mrs. Sul. I 'm struck dumb with wonder! 

Arch. And I—with admiration!

[Looks passionately at her.

Mrs. Sul. What will become of me?

Arch. How beautiful she looks!—The teeming jolly Spring smiles in her blooming face, and, when she was conceived, her mother smelt to roses, looked on lilies—

Lilies unfold their white, their fragrant charms,
When the warm sun thus darts into their arms.

[Runs to her.

Mrs. Sul. Ah! [Shrieks.

Arch. 'Oons, madam, what d' ye mean? you 'll raise the house. 

Mrs. Sul. Sir, I 'll wake the dead before I bear this!— What! approach me with the freedom of a keeper! I'm glad on't, your impudence has cured me.

Arch. If this be impudence—[Kneels.] I leave to your partial self; no panting pilgrim, after a tedious, painful voyage, e'er bowed before his saint with more devotion. 

Mrs. Sul. [Aside.] Now, now, I 'm ruined if he kneels! —[Aloud.] Rise, thou prostrate engineer, not all thy undermining skill shall reach my heart.—Rise, and know I am a woman without my sex; I can love to all the tenderness of wishes, sighs, and tears —but go no farther.—Still, to convince you-that I'm more than woman, I can speak my frailty, confess my weakness even for you, but—

Arch. For me! [Going to lay hold on her.

Mrs. Sul. Hold, sir! build not upon that; for my most mortal hatred follows if you disobey what I command you now.—Leave me this minute.—[Aside.] If he denies I 'm lost. 

Arch. Then you'll promise—

Mrs. Sul. Anything another time.

Arch. When shall I come?

Mrs. Sul. To-morrow—when you will.

Arch. Your lips must seal the promise.

Mrs. Sul. Psha!

Arch. They must! they must! [Kisses her.] —Raptures and paradise!—And why not now, my angel? the time, the place, silence, and secrecy, all conspire. And the now conscious stars have preordained this moment for my happiness. [Takes her in his arms.

Mrs. Sul. You will not! cannot, sure! 

Arch. If the sun rides fast, and disappoints not mortals of to-morrow's dawn, this night shall crown my joys.

Mrs. Sul. My sex's pride assist me!

Arch. My sex's strength help me!

Mrs. Sul. You shall kill me first!

Arch. I'll die with you. [Carrying her off.

Mrs. Sul. Thieves! thieves! murder! 

Enter Scrub in his breeches, and one shoe.

Scrub. Thieves! thieves! murder! popery!

Arch. Ha! the very timorous stag will kill in rutting time. [Draws, and offers to stab Scrub.

Scrub. [Kneeling.] O pray, sir, spare all I have, and take my life!

Mrs. Sul. [Holding Archer's hand.] What does the fellow mean?

Scrub. O madam, down upon your knees, your marrow-bones! —he's one of 'em. 

Arch. Of whom?

Scrub. One of the rogues—I beg your pardon, one of the honest gentlemen that just now are broke into the house.

Arch. How!

Mrs. Sul. I hope you did not come to rob me?

Arch. Indeed I did, madam, but I would have taken nothing but what you might ha' spared; but your crying &quot;Thieves&quot; has waked this dreaming fool, and so he takes 'em for granted. 

Scrub. Granted! 'tis granted, sir; take all we have.

Mrs. Sul. The fellow looks as if he were broke out of Bedlam.

Scrub. 'Oons, madam, they 're broke into the house with fire and sword! I saw them, heard them; they 'll be here this minute.

Arch. What, thieves!

Scrub. Under favour, sir, I think so.

Mrs. Sul. What shall we do, sir?

Arch. Madam, I wish your ladyship a good night.

Mrs. Sul. Will you leave me?

Arch. Leave you! Lord, madam, did not you command me to be gone just now, upon pain of your immortal hatred?

Mrs. Sul. Nay, but pray, sir-- [Takes hold of him.

Arch. Ha! ha! ha! now comes my turn to be ravished. —You see now, madam, you must use men one way or other; but take this by the way; good madam, that none but a fool will give you the benefit of his courage, unless you'll take his love along with it. —How are they armed, friend? 

Scrub. With sword and pistol, sir.

Arch. Hush!—I see a dark lantern coming through the gallery—Madam, be assured I will protect you, or lose my life.

Mrs. Sul. Your life! no, sir, they can rob me of nothing that I value half so much; therefore now, sir, let me entreat you to be gone. 

Arch. No, madam, I'll consult my own safety for the sake of yours; I 'll work by stratagem. Have you courage enough to stand the appearance of 'em?

Mrs. Sul. Yes, yes, since I have 'scaped your hands, I can face anything.

Arch. Come hither, brother Scrub! don't you know me?

Scrub. Eh, my dear brother, let me kiss thee.

[Kisses Archer.

Arch. This way—here--

[Archer and Scrub hide behind the bed.

Enter Gibbet, with a dark lantern in one hand, and a pistol in the other.

Gib. Ay, ay, this is the chamber, and the lady alone.

Mrs. Sul. Who are you, sir? what would you have? d' ye come to rob me? 

Gib. Rob you! alack a day, madam, I 'm only a younger brother, madam; and so, madam, if you make a noise, I'll shoot you through the head; but don't be afraid, madam.—[Laying his lantern and pistol upon the table.] These rings, madam; don't be concerned, madam, I have a profound respect for you, madam; your keys, madam; don't be frighted, madam, I'm the most of a gentleman. —[Searching her pockets.] This necklace, madam; I never was rude to any lady;—I have a veneration —for this necklace— [160]

[Here Archer having come round, and seized the pistol takes Gibbet by the collar, trips up his heels, and claps the pistol to his breast.

Arch. Hold, profane villain, and take the reward of thy sacrilege!

Gib. Oh! pray, sir, don't kill me; I an't prepared.

Arch. How many is there of 'em, Scrub?

Scrub. Five-and-forty, sir.

Arch. Then I must kill the villain, to have him out of the way.

Gib. Hold, hold, sir, we are but three, upon my honour.

Arch. Scrub, will you undertake to secure him?

Scrub. Not I, sir; kill him, kill him! 

Arch. Run to Gipsy's chamber, there you'll find the doctor; bring him hither presently.—[Exit Scrub, running.] Come, rogue, if you have a short prayer, say it.

Gib. Sir, I have no prayer at all; the government has provided a chaplain to say prayers for us on these occasions.

Mrs. Sul. Pray, sir, don't kill him: you fright me as much as him. 

Arch. The dog shall die, madam, for being the occasion of my disappointment.—Sirrah, this moment is your last.

Gib. Sir, I 'll give you two hundred pounds to spare my life.

Arch. Have you no more, rascal?

Gib. Yes, sir, I can command four hundred, but I must reserve two of 'em to save my life at the sessions.

Re-enter Scrub and Foigard.

Arch. Here, doctor, I suppose Scrub and you between you may manage him. Lay hold of him, doctor.

[Foigard lays hold of Gibbet.

Gib. What! turned over to the priest already!— Look 'ee, doctor, you come before your time; I an't condemned yet, I thank ye. 

Foi. Come, my dear joy; I vill secure your body and your shoul too; I vill make you a good catholic, and give you an absolution.

Gib. Absolution! can you procure me a pardon, doctor?

Foi. No, joy—

Gib. Then you and your absolution may to the devil! 

Arch. Convey him into the cellar, there bind him:— take the pistol, and if he offers to resist, shoot him through the head—and come back to us with all the speed you can.

Scrub. Ay, ay, come, doctor, do you hold him fast, and I 'll guard him.

[Exit Foigard with Gibbet, Scrub following.

Mrs. Sul. But how came the doctor—

Arch. In short, madam—[Shrieking without.] 'Sdeath! the rogues are at work with the other ladies—I'm vexed I parted with the pistol; but I must fly to their assistance.—Will you stay here, madam, or venture yourself with me? 

Mrs. Sul. [Taking him by the arm.] Oh, with you, dear sir, with you. [Exeunt.


==ACT V., SCENE III.==

Another Bedchamber in the same. Enter Hounslow and Bagshot, with swords drawn, haling in Lady Bountiful and Dorinda.

Houn. Come, come, your jewels, mistress!

Bag. Your keys, your keys, old gentlewoman!

Enter Aimwell and Cherry.

Aim. Turn this way, villains! I durst engage an army in such a cause. [He engages them both.

Dor. O madam, had I but a sword to help the brave man!

Lady Boun. There's three or four hanging up in the hall; but they won't draw. I 'll go fetch one, however. [Exit.

Enter Archer and Mrs. Sullen.

Arch. Hold, hold, my lord! every man his bird, pray. [They engage man to man; Hounslow and Bagshot are thrown and disarmed.

Cher. [Aside.] What! the rogues taken! then they'll impeach my father: I must give him timely notice.

[Runs out.

Arch. Shall we kill the rogues?

Aim. No, no, we 'll bind them.

Arch. Ay, ay.—[To Mrs. Sullen, who stands by him.] Here, madam, lend me your garter.

Mrs. Sul. [Aside.] The devil's in this fellow! he fights, loves, and banters, all in a breath.—[Aloud.] Here's a cord that the rogues brought with 'em, I suppose. 

Arch. Right, right, the rogue's destiny, a rope to hang himself.—Come, my lord—this is but a scandalous sort of an office [Binding the Highwaymen together.] if our adventures should end in this sort of hangman-work; but I hope there is something in prospect, that—

Enter Scrub.

Arch. Well, Scrub, have you secured your Tartar?

Scrub. Yes, sir, I left the priest and him disputing about religion.

Aim. And pray carry these gentlemen to reap the benefit of the controversy. 

[Delivers the prisoners to Scrubs who leads them out.

Mrs. Sul. Pray, sister, how came my lord here?

Dor. And pray, how came the gentleman here?

Mrs. Sul. I'll tell you the greatest piece of villainy—

[They talk in dumb show.

Aim. I fancy, Archer, you have been more successful in your adventures than the housebreakers.

Arch. No matter for my adventure, yours is the principal.—Press her this minute to marry you—now while she's hurried between the palpitation of her fear and the joy of her deliverance, now while the tide of her spirits is at high-flood—throw yourself at her feet, speak some romantic nonsense or other —address her, like Alexander in the height of his victory, confound her senses, bear down her reason, and away with her.—The priest is now in the cellar, and dare not refuse to do the work.

Re-enter Lady Bountiful.

Aim. But how shall I get off without being observed?

Arch. You a lover, and not find a way to get off!—Let me see—

Aim. You bleed, Archer. 

Arch. 'Sdeath, I'm glad on 't; this wound will do the business. I'll amuse the old lady and Mrs. Sullen about dressing my wound, while you carry off Dorinda.

Lady Boun. Gentlemen, could we understand how you would be gratified for the services—

Arch. Come, come, my lady, this is no time for compliments; I 'm wounded, madam.

Lady Boun., Mrs. Sut. How! wounded!

Dor. I hope, sir, you have received no hurt? 

Aim. None but what you may cure——

[Makes love in dumb show.

Lady Boun. Let me see your arm, sir—I must have some powder-sugar to stop the blood.—O me! an ugly gash; upon my word, sir, you must go into bed.

Arch. Ay, my lady, a bed would do very well.—[To Mrs. Sullen.] Madam, will you do me the favour to conduct me to a chamber.

Lady Boun. Do, do, daughter—while I get the lint and the probe and the plaster ready.

[Runs out one way, Aimwell carries off Dorinda another.

[116]Arch. Come, madam, why don't you obey your mother's commands? 

Mrs. Sul. How can you, after what is passed, have the confidence to ask me?

Arch. And if you go to that, how can you, after what is passed, have the confidence to deny me? Was not this blood shed in your defence, and my life exposed for your protection? Look 'ee, madam, I 'm none of your romantic fools, that fight giants and monsters for nothing; my valour is downright Swiss; I'm a soldier of fortune, and must be paid.' 

Mrs. Sul. 'Tis ungenerous in you, sir, to upbraid me with your services!

Arch. 'Tis ungenerous in you, madam, not to reward 'em.

Mrs. Sul. How! at the expense of my honour?

Arch. Honour! can honour consist with ingratitude? If you would deal like a woman of honour, do like a man of honour. D' ye think I would deny you in such a case?

Enter a Servant.

Serv. Madam, my lady ordered me to tell you, that your brother is below at the gate. [Exit.

Mrs. Sul. My brother! Heavens be praised!—Sir, he shall thank you for your services; he has it in his power. 

Arch. Who is your brother, madam?

Mrs. Sul. Sir Charles Freeman.—You'll excuse me, sir; I must go and receive him. [Exit.

Arch. Sir Charles Freeman! 'sdeath and hell! my old acquaintance. Now unless Aimwell has made good use of his time, all our fair machine goes souse into the sea like the Eddystone. [Exit.


==ACT V., SCENE IV.==

The Gallery in the same house. Enter Aimwell and Dorinda.

Dor. Well, well, my lord, you have conquered; your late generous action will, I hope, plead for my easy yielding; though I must own, your lordship had a friend in the fort before.

Aim. The sweets of Hybla dwell upon her tongue!— Here, doctor—

Enter Foigard with a book.

Foi. Are you prepared boat?

Dor. I 'm ready. But first, my lord, one word.—I have a frightful example of a hasty marriage in my own family; when I reflect upon't it shocks me. Pray, my lord, consider a little— 

Aim. Consider! do you doubt my honour or my love?

Dor. Neither: I do believe you equally just as brave: and were your whole sex drawn out forme to choose, I should not cast a look upon the multitude if you were absent. But, my lord, I'm a woman; colours, concealments may hide a thousand faults in me, therefore know me better first; I hardly dare affirm I know myself in anything except my love. 

Aim. [Aside,] Such goodness who could injure! I find myself unequal to the task of villain; she has gained my soul, and made it honest like her own.— I cannot, cannot hurt her.—[Aloud.] Doctor, retire. —[Exit Foigard] Madam, behold your lover and your proselyte, and judge of my passion by my conversion!—I'm all a lie, nor dare I give a fiction to your arms; I 'm all counterfeit, except my passion.

Dor. Forbid it, Heaven! a counterfeit! 

Aim. I am no lord, but a poor needy man, come with a mean, a scandalous design to prey upon your fortune; but the beauties of your mind and person have so won me from myself that, like a trusty servant, I prefer the interest of my mistress to my own.

Dor. Sure I have had the dream of some poor mariner, a sleepy image of a welcome port, and wake involved in storms!—Pray, sir, who are you?

Aim. Brother to the man whose title I usurped, but stranger to his honour or his fortune. 

Dor. Matchless honesty!—Once I was proud, sir, of your wealth and title, but now am prouder that you want it: now I can show my love was justly levelled, and had no aim but love.—Doctor, come in.

Enter Foigard at one door, Gipsy at another-, who whispers Dorinda.

[To Foigard.] Your pardon, sir, we shan't want you now.—[To Aimwell.] Sir, you must excuse me—I 'll wait on you presently. [Exit with Gipsy.

Foi. Upon my shoul, now, dis is foolish. [Exit.

Aim. Gone! and bid the priest depart!—It has an ominous look.

Enter Archer.

Arch. Courage, Tom!—Shall I wish you joy? 

Aim. No.

Arch. 'Oons, man, what ha' you been doing?

Aim. O Archer! my honesty, I fear, has ruined me.

Arch. How?

Aim. I have discovered myself.

Arch. Discovered! and without my consent? What! have I embarked my small remains in the same bottom with yours, and you dispose of all without my partnership?

Aim. O Archer! I own my fault. 

Arch. After conviction—'tis then too late for pardon.— You may remember, Mr. Aimwell, that you proposed this folly: as you begun, so end it. Henceforth I 'll hunt my fortune single—so farewell!

Aim. Stay, my dear Archer, but a minute.

Arch. Stay! what, to be despised, exposed, and laughed at! No, I would sooner change conditions with the worst of the rogues we just now bound, than bear one scornful smile from the proud knight that once I treated as my equal. 

Aim. What knight?

Arch. Sir Charles Freeman, brother to the lady that I had almost—but no matter for that, 'tis a cursed night's work, and so I leave you to make the best on't. [Going.

Aim. Freeman!—One word, Archer. Still I have hopes; methought she received my confession with pleasure.

Arch. 'Sdeath, who doubts it?

Aim. She consented after to the match; and still I dare believe she will be just. 

Arch. To herself, I warrant her, as you should have been.

Aim. By all my hopes she comes, and smiling comes!

Re-enter Dorinda, mighty gay.

Dor. Come, my dear lord—I fly with impatience to your arms—the minutes of my absence were a tedious year. Where's this priest?

Re-enter Foigard.

Arch. 'Oons, a brave girl!

Dor. I suppose, my lord, this gentleman is privy to our affairs? 

Arch. Yes, yes, madam, I'm to be your father.

Dor. Come, priest, do your office.

Arch. Make haste, make haste, couple 'em any way.— [Takes Aimwells hand.] Come, madam, I'm to give you—

Dor. My mind's altered; I won't.

Arch. Eh!

Aim. I 'm confounded!

Foi. Upon my shoul, and sho is myshelf.

Arch. What 's the matter now, madam? 

Dor. Look'ee, sir, one generous action deserves another. —This gentleman's honour obliged him to hide nothing from me; my justice engages me to conceal nothing from him. In short, sir, you are the person that you thought you counterfeited; you are the true Lord Viscount Aimwell, and I wish your Lordship joy.—Now, priest, you may be gone; if my Lord is pleased now with the match, let his Lordship marry me in the face of the world.

Aim., Arch. What does she mean? 

Dor. Here's a witness for my truth.

Enter Sir Charles Freeman and Mrs Sullen.

Sir Chas. My dear Lord Aimwell, I wish you joy.

Aim. Of what?

Sir Chas. Of your honour and estate. Your brother died the day before I left London; and all your friends have writ after you to Brussels;—among the rest I did myself the honour.

Arch. Hark 'ee, sir knight, don't you banter now?

Sir Chas. 'Tis truth, upon my honour.

Aim. Thanks to the pregnant stars that formed this accident! 

Arch. Thanks to the womb of time that brought it forth!—away with it!

Aim. Thanks to my guardian angel that led me to the prize! [Taking Dorinda's hand].

Arch. And double thanks to the noble Sir Charles Freeman.—My Lord, I wish you joy.—My Lady, I wish you joy.—Egad, Sir Freeman, you're the honestest fellow living!—'Sdeath, I'm grown strange airy upon this matter!—My Lord, how d'ye?—A word, my Lord; don't you remember something of a previous agreement, that entitles me to the moiety of this lady's fortune, which I think will amount to five thousand pounds?

Aim. Not a penny, Archer; you would ha' cut my throat just now, because I would not deceive this lady.

Arch. Ay, and I 'll cut your throat again, if you should deceive her now. 

Aim. That's what I expected; and to end the dispute, the lady's fortune is ten thousand pounds, we'll divide stakes: take the ten thousand pounds or the lady.

Dor. How! is your lordship so indifferent?

Arch. No, no, no, madam! his Lordship knows very well that I 'll take the money; I leave you to his Lordship, and so we're both provided for.

Enter Count Bellair.

Count Bel. ''Mesdames et Messieurs,'' I am your servant ''trice humble!'' I hear you be rob here.

Aim. The ladies have been in some danger, sir.

Count Bel. And, begar, our inn be rob too! 

Aim. Our inn! by whom?

Count Bel. By the landlord, begar!—Garzoon, he has rob himself, and run away!

Arch. Robbed himself!

Count Bel. Ay, begar, and me too of a hundre pound.

Arch. A hundred pounds?

Count Bel. Yes, that I owed him.

Aim. Our money's gone, Frank.

Arch. Rot the money! my wench is gone.—[To Count Bellair.] ''Savez-vous quelquechose de Mademoiselle Cherry?''

Enter a Countryman with a strong-box and a letter.

Coun. Is there one Martin here?

Arch. Ay, ay—who wants him?

Coun. I have a box here, and letter for him.

Arch. [Taking the box.] Ha! ha! ha! what's here? Legerdemain!—By this light, my lord, our money again!—But this unfolds the riddle.—[Opening the letter.] Hum, hum, hum!—Oh, 'tis for the public good, and must be communicated to the company.

[Reads.

:&quot;Mr. Martin,                

:&quot;My father being afraid of an impeachment by the rogues that are taken to-night, is gone off; but if you can procure him a pardon, he'll make great discoveries that may be useful to the country. Could I have met you instead of your master to-night, I would have delivered myself into your hands, with a sum that much exceeds that in your strong-box, which I have sent you, with an assurance to my dear Martin that I shall ever be his most faithful friend till death.
:&quot;CHERRY BONIFACE.&quot;

There's a billet-doux for you! As for the father, I think he ought to be encouraged; and for the daughter—pray, my Lord, persuade your bride to take her into her service instead of Gipsy. 

Aim. I can assure you, madam, your deliverance was owing to her discovery.

Dor. Your command, my Lord, will do without the obligation. I'll take care of her.

Sir Chas. This good company meets opportunely in favour of a design I have in behalf of my unfortunate sister. I intend to part her from her husband—gentlemen, will you assist me? 

Arch. Assist you! 'sdeath, who would not?

Count Bel. Assist! garzoon, we all assist!

Enter Squire Sullen.

Squire Sul. What 's all this? They tell me, spouse, that you had like to have been robbed.

Mrs. Sul. Truly, spouse, I was pretty near it, had not these two gentlemen interposed.

Squire Sul. How came these gentlemen here?

Mrs. Sul. That's his way of returning thanks, you must know.

Count Bel. Garzoon, the question be apropos for all dat.

Sir Chas. You promised last night, sir, that you would deliver your lady to me this morning.

Squire Sul. Humph!

Arch. Humph! what do you mean by humph? Sir, you shall deliver her—in short, sir, we have saved you and your family; and if you are not civil, we'll unbind the rogues, join with 'em, and set fire to your house. What does the man mean? not part with his wife! 

Count Bel. Ay, garzoon, de man no understan common justice.

Mrs. Sul. Hold, gentlemen, all things here must move by consent, compulsion would spoil us; let my dear and I talk the matter over, and you shall judge it between us.

Squire Sul. Let me know first who are to be our judges. Pray, sir, who are you?

Sir Chas. I am Sir Charles Freeman, come to take away your wife. 

Squire Sul. And you, good sir?

Aim. Thomas, Viscount Aimwell, come to take away your sister.

Squire Sul. And you, pray, sir?

Arch. Francis Archer, esquire, come——

Squire Sul. To take away my mother, I hope. Gentlemen, you 're heartily welcome; I never met with three more obliging people since I was born!— And now, my dear, if you please, you shall have the first word. 

Arch. And the last, for five pounds!

Mrs. Sul. Spouse!

Squire Sul. Rib!

Mrs. Sul. How long have we been married?

Squire Sul. By the almanac, fourteen months; but by my account, fourteen years.

Mrs. Sul. 'Tis thereabout by my reckoning.

Count Bel. Garzoon, their account will agree.

Mrs. Sul. Pray, spouse, what did you marry for? 

Squire Sul. To get an heir to my estate.

Sir Chas. And have you succeeded?

Squire Sul. No.

Arch. The condition fails of his side.—Pray, madam, what did you marry for?

Mrs. Sul. To support the weakness of my sex by the strength of his, and to enjoy the pleasures of an agreeable society.

Sir Chas. Are your expectations answered?

Mrs. Sul. No. 

Count Bel. A clear case! a clear case!

Sir Chas. What are the bars to your mutual contentment?

Mrs. Sul. In the first place, I can't drink ale with him.

Squire Sul. Nor can I drink tea with her.

Mrs. Sul. I can't hunt with you.

Squire Sul. Nor can I dance with you.

Mrs. Sul. I hate cocking and racing.

Squire Sul. And I abhor ombre and piquet.

Mrs. Sul. Your silence is intolerable.

Squire Sul. Your prating is worse. 

Mrs. Sul. Have we not been a perpetual offence to each other? a gnawing vulture at the heart?

Squire Sul. A frightful goblin to the sight?

Mrs. Sul. A porcupine to the feeling?

Squire Sul. Perpetual wormwood to the taste?

Mrs. Sul. Is there on earth a thing we could agree in?

Squire Sul. Yes—-to part.

Mrs. Sul. With all my heart

Squire Sul. Your hand.

Mrs. Sul. Here. 

Squire Sul. These hands joined us, these shall part us. —Away!

Mrs. Sul. North

Squire Sul. South.

Mrs. Sul. East.

Squire Sul. West—-far as the poles asunder.

Count Bel. Begar, the ceremony be vera pretty!

Sir Chas. Now, Mr. Sullen, there wants only my sister's fortune to make us easy.

Squire Sul. Sir Charles, you love your sister, and I love her fortune; every one to his fancy. 

Arch. Then you won't refund?

Squire Sul. Not a stiver.

Arch. Then I find, madam, you must e'en go to your prison again.

Count Bel. What is the portion?

Sir Chas. Ten thousand pounds, sir.

Count Bel. Garzoon, I 'll pay it, and she shall go home wid me. 

Arch. Ha! ha! ha! French all over.— Do you know, sir, what ten thousand pounds English is?

Count Bel. No, begar, not ''justement.''

Arch. Why, sir, 'tis a hundred thousand ''livres.''

Count Bel. A hundre tousand ''livres''! Ah! garzoon, me canno' do't, your beauties and their fortunes are both too much for me.

Arch. Then I will.—This night's adventure has proved strangely lucky to us all—for Captain Gibbet in his walk had made bold, Mr. Sullen, with your study and escritoir, and had taken out all the writings of your estate, all the articles of marriage with this lady, bills, bonds, leases, receipts to an infinite value: I took 'em from him, and I deliver 'em to Sir Charles.

[Gives Sir Charles Freeman a parcel of papers and parchments.

Squire Sul. How, my writings!—my head aches consumedly.—Well, gentlemen, you shall have her fortune, but I can't talk. If you have a mind, Sir Charles, to be merry, and celebrate my sister's wedding and my divorce, you may command my house—but my head aches consumedly.—Scrub, bring me a dram.

Arch. [To Mrs. Sullen.] Madam, there's a country dance to the trifle that I sung to-day; your hand, and we'll lead it up.

[Here a Dance.

Twould be hard to guess which of these parties is the better pleased, the couple joined, or the couple parted; the one rejoicing in hopes of an untasted happiness, and the other in their deliverance from an experienced misery. 

:Both happy in their several states we find, 
:Those parted by consent, and those conjoined. 
:Consent, if mutual, saves the lawyer's fee. 
:Consent is law enough to set you free.

[Exeunt omnes.


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{{header
 | title      = The Beaux Stratagem
 | author     = George Farquhar
 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1707
 | notes      = 
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu&quot; include=7 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu&quot; include=9 /&gt;
{{AuxTOC|title=Contents|
* [[/Prologue|Prologue. Spoken by Mr. Wilks]]
* [[/Epilogue|An Epilogue, design'd to be spoke in the Beaux Stratagem]]
* [[/Dramatis Personae|Dramatis Personæ]]
* [[/Act 1 Scene 1|Act I, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 2 Scene 1|Act II, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 2 Scene 2|Act II, Scene II.]]
* [[/Act 3 Scene 1|Act III, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 3 Scene 2|Act III, Scene II.]]
* [[/Act 3 Scene 3|Act III, Scene III.]]
* [[/Act 4 Scene 1|Act IV, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 1|Act V, Scene I.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 2|Act V, Scene II.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 3|Act V, Scene III.]]
* [[/Act 5 Scene 4|Act V, Scene IV.]]
}}

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==ACT V., SCENE III.==

Another Bedchamber in the same. Enter Hounslow and Bagshot, with swords drawn, haling in Lady Bountiful and Dorinda.

Houn. Come, come, your jewels, mistress!

Bag. Your keys, your keys, old gentlewoman!

Enter Aimwell and Cherry.

Aim. Turn this way, villains! I durst engage an army in such a cause. [He engages them both.

Dor. O madam, had I but a sword to help the brave man!

Lady Boun. There's three or four hanging up in the hall; but they won't draw. I 'll go fetch one, however. [Exit.

Enter Archer and Mrs. Sullen.

Arch. Hold, hold, my lord! every man his bird, pray. [They engage man to man; Hounslow and Bagshot are thrown and disarmed.

Cher. [Aside.] What! the rogues taken! then they'll impeach my father: I must give him timely notice.

[Runs out.

Arch. Shall we kill the rogues?

Aim. No, no, we 'll bind them.

Arch. Ay, ay.—[To Mrs. Sullen, who stands by him.] Here, madam, lend me your garter.

Mrs. Sul. [Aside.] The devil's in this fellow! he fights, loves, and banters, all in a breath.—[Aloud.] Here's a cord that the rogues brought with 'em, I suppose. 

Arch. Right, right, the rogue's destiny, a rope to hang himself.—Come, my lord—this is but a scandalous sort of an office [Binding the Highwaymen together.] if our adventures should end in this sort of hangman-work; but I hope there is something in prospect, that—

Enter Scrub.

Arch. Well, Scrub, have you secured your Tartar?

Scrub. Yes, sir, I left the priest and him disputing about religion.

Aim. And pray carry these gentlemen to reap the benefit of the controversy. 

[Delivers the prisoners to Scrubs who leads them out.

Mrs. Sul. Pray, sister, how came my lord here?

Dor. And pray, how came the gentleman here?

Mrs. Sul. I'll tell you the greatest piece of villainy—

[They talk in dumb show.

Aim. I fancy, Archer, you have been more successful in your adventures than the housebreakers.

Arch. No matter for my adventure, yours is the principal.—Press her this minute to marry you—now while she's hurried between the palpitation of her fear and the joy of her deliverance, now while the tide of her spirits is at high-flood—throw yourself at her feet, speak some romantic nonsense or other —address her, like Alexander in the height of his victory, confound her senses, bear down her reason, and away with her.—The priest is now in the cellar, and dare not refuse to do the work.

Re-enter Lady Bountiful.

Aim. But how shall I get off without being observed?

Arch. You a lover, and not find a way to get off!—Let me see—

Aim. You bleed, Archer. 

Arch. 'Sdeath, I'm glad on 't; this wound will do the business. I'll amuse the old lady and Mrs. Sullen about dressing my wound, while you carry off Dorinda.

Lady Boun. Gentlemen, could we understand how you would be gratified for the services—

Arch. Come, come, my lady, this is no time for compliments; I 'm wounded, madam.

Lady Boun., Mrs. Sut. How! wounded!

Dor. I hope, sir, you have received no hurt? 

Aim. None but what you may cure——

[Makes love in dumb show.

Lady Boun. Let me see your arm, sir—I must have some powder-sugar to stop the blood.—O me! an ugly gash; upon my word, sir, you must go into bed.

Arch. Ay, my lady, a bed would do very well.—[To Mrs. Sullen.] Madam, will you do me the favour to conduct me to a chamber.

Lady Boun. Do, do, daughter—while I get the lint and the probe and the plaster ready.

[Runs out one way, Aimwell carries off Dorinda another.

[116]Arch. Come, madam, why don't you obey your mother's commands? 

Mrs. Sul. How can you, after what is passed, have the confidence to ask me?

Arch. And if you go to that, how can you, after what is passed, have the confidence to deny me? Was not this blood shed in your defence, and my life exposed for your protection? Look 'ee, madam, I 'm none of your romantic fools, that fight giants and monsters for nothing; my valour is downright Swiss; I'm a soldier of fortune, and must be paid.' 

Mrs. Sul. 'Tis ungenerous in you, sir, to upbraid me with your services!

Arch. 'Tis ungenerous in you, madam, not to reward 'em.

Mrs. Sul. How! at the expense of my honour?

Arch. Honour! can honour consist with ingratitude? If you would deal like a woman of honour, do like a man of honour. D' ye think I would deny you in such a case?

Enter a Servant.

Serv. Madam, my lady ordered me to tell you, that your brother is below at the gate. [Exit.

Mrs. Sul. My brother! Heavens be praised!—Sir, he shall thank you for your services; he has it in his power. 

Arch. Who is your brother, madam?

Mrs. Sul. Sir Charles Freeman.—You'll excuse me, sir; I must go and receive him. [Exit.

Arch. Sir Charles Freeman! 'sdeath and hell! my old acquaintance. Now unless Aimwell has made good use of his time, all our fair machine goes souse into the sea like the Eddystone. [Exit.


==ACT V., SCENE IV.==

The Gallery in the same house. Enter Aimwell and Dorinda.

Dor. Well, well, my lord, you have conquered; your late generous action will, I hope, plead for my easy yielding; though I must own, your lordship had a friend in the fort before.

Aim. The sweets of Hybla dwell upon her tongue!— Here, doctor—

Enter Foigard with a book.

Foi. Are you prepared boat?

Dor. I 'm ready. But first, my lord, one word.—I have a frightful example of a hasty marriage in my own family; when I reflect upon't it shocks me. Pray, my lord, consider a little— 

Aim. Consider! do you doubt my honour or my love?

Dor. Neither: I do believe you equally just as brave: and were your whole sex drawn out forme to choose, I should not cast a look upon the multitude if you were absent. But, my lord, I'm a woman; colours, concealments may hide a thousand faults in me, therefore know me better first; I hardly dare affirm I know myself in anything except my love. 

Aim. [Aside,] Such goodness who could injure! I find myself unequal to the task of villain; she has gained my soul, and made it honest like her own.— I cannot, cannot hurt her.—[Aloud.] Doctor, retire. —[Exit Foigard] Madam, behold your lover and your proselyte, and judge of my passion by my conversion!—I'm all a lie, nor dare I give a fiction to your arms; I 'm all counterfeit, except my passion.

Dor. Forbid it, Heaven! a counterfeit! 

Aim. I am no lord, but a poor needy man, come with a mean, a scandalous design to prey upon your fortune; but the beauties of your mind and person have so won me from myself that, like a trusty servant, I prefer the interest of my mistress to my own.

Dor. Sure I have had the dream of some poor mariner, a sleepy image of a welcome port, and wake involved in storms!—Pray, sir, who are you?

Aim. Brother to the man whose title I usurped, but stranger to his honour or his fortune. 

Dor. Matchless honesty!—Once I was proud, sir, of your wealth and title, but now am prouder that you want it: now I can show my love was justly levelled, and had no aim but love.—Doctor, come in.

Enter Foigard at one door, Gipsy at another-, who whispers Dorinda.

[To Foigard.] Your pardon, sir, we shan't want you now.—[To Aimwell.] Sir, you must excuse me—I 'll wait on you presently. [Exit with Gipsy.

Foi. Upon my shoul, now, dis is foolish. [Exit.

Aim. Gone! and bid the priest depart!—It has an ominous look.

Enter Archer.

Arch. Courage, Tom!—Shall I wish you joy? 

Aim. No.

Arch. 'Oons, man, what ha' you been doing?

Aim. O Archer! my honesty, I fear, has ruined me.

Arch. How?

Aim. I have discovered myself.

Arch. Discovered! and without my consent? What! have I embarked my small remains in the same bottom with yours, and you dispose of all without my partnership?

Aim. O Archer! I own my fault. 

Arch. After conviction—'tis then too late for pardon.— You may remember, Mr. Aimwell, that you proposed this folly: as you begun, so end it. Henceforth I 'll hunt my fortune single—so farewell!

Aim. Stay, my dear Archer, but a minute.

Arch. Stay! what, to be despised, exposed, and laughed at! No, I would sooner change conditions with the worst of the rogues we just now bound, than bear one scornful smile from the proud knight that once I treated as my equal. 

Aim. What knight?

Arch. Sir Charles Freeman, brother to the lady that I had almost—but no matter for that, 'tis a cursed night's work, and so I leave you to make the best on't. [Going.

Aim. Freeman!—One word, Archer. Still I have hopes; methought she received my confession with pleasure.

Arch. 'Sdeath, who doubts it?

Aim. She consented after to the match; and still I dare believe she will be just. 

Arch. To herself, I warrant her, as you should have been.

Aim. By all my hopes she comes, and smiling comes!

Re-enter Dorinda, mighty gay.

Dor. Come, my dear lord—I fly with impatience to your arms—the minutes of my absence were a tedious year. Where's this priest?

Re-enter Foigard.

Arch. 'Oons, a brave girl!

Dor. I suppose, my lord, this gentleman is privy to our affairs? 

Arch. Yes, yes, madam, I'm to be your father.

Dor. Come, priest, do your office.

Arch. Make haste, make haste, couple 'em any way.— [Takes Aimwells hand.] Come, madam, I'm to give you—

Dor. My mind's altered; I won't.

Arch. Eh!

Aim. I 'm confounded!

Foi. Upon my shoul, and sho is myshelf.

Arch. What 's the matter now, madam? 

Dor. Look'ee, sir, one generous action deserves another. —This gentleman's honour obliged him to hide nothing from me; my justice engages me to conceal nothing from him. In short, sir, you are the person that you thought you counterfeited; you are the true Lord Viscount Aimwell, and I wish your Lordship joy.—Now, priest, you may be gone; if my Lord is pleased now with the match, let his Lordship marry me in the face of the world.

Aim., Arch. What does she mean? 

Dor. Here's a witness for my truth.

Enter Sir Charles Freeman and Mrs Sullen.

Sir Chas. My dear Lord Aimwell, I wish you joy.

Aim. Of what?

Sir Chas. Of your honour and estate. Your brother died the day before I left London; and all your friends have writ after you to Brussels;—among the rest I did myself the honour.

Arch. Hark 'ee, sir knight, don't you banter now?

Sir Chas. 'Tis truth, upon my honour.

Aim. Thanks to the pregnant stars that formed this accident! 

Arch. Thanks to the womb of time that brought it forth!—away with it!

Aim. Thanks to my guardian angel that led me to the prize! [Taking Dorinda's hand].

Arch. And double thanks to the noble Sir Charles Freeman.—My Lord, I wish you joy.—My Lady, I wish you joy.—Egad, Sir Freeman, you're the honestest fellow living!—'Sdeath, I'm grown strange airy upon this matter!—My Lord, how d'ye?—A word, my Lord; don't you remember something of a previous agreement, that entitles me to the moiety of this lady's fortune, which I think will amount to five thousand pounds?

Aim. Not a penny, Archer; you would ha' cut my throat just now, because I would not deceive this lady.

Arch. Ay, and I 'll cut your throat again, if you should deceive her now. 

Aim. That's what I expected; and to end the dispute, the lady's fortune is ten thousand pounds, we'll divide stakes: take the ten thousand pounds or the lady.

Dor. How! is your lordship so indifferent?

Arch. No, no, no, madam! his Lordship knows very well that I 'll take the money; I leave you to his Lordship, and so we're both provided for.

Enter Count Bellair.

Count Bel. ''Mesdames et Messieurs,'' I am your servant ''trice humble!'' I hear you be rob here.

Aim. The ladies have been in some danger, sir.

Count Bel. And, begar, our inn be rob too! 

Aim. Our inn! by whom?

Count Bel. By the landlord, begar!—Garzoon, he has rob himself, and run away!

Arch. Robbed himself!

Count Bel. Ay, begar, and me too of a hundre pound.

Arch. A hundred pounds?

Count Bel. Yes, that I owed him.

Aim. Our money's gone, Frank.

Arch. Rot the money! my wench is gone.—[To Count Bellair.] ''Savez-vous quelquechose de Mademoiselle Cherry?''

Enter a Countryman with a strong-box and a letter.

Coun. Is there one Martin here?

Arch. Ay, ay—who wants him?

Coun. I have a box here, and letter for him.

Arch. [Taking the box.] Ha! ha! ha! what's here? Legerdemain!—By this light, my lord, our money again!—But this unfolds the riddle.—[Opening the letter.] Hum, hum, hum!—Oh, 'tis for the public good, and must be communicated to the company.

[Reads.

:&quot;Mr. Martin,                

:&quot;My father being afraid of an impeachment by the rogues that are taken to-night, is gone off; but if you can procure him a pardon, he'll make great discoveries that may be useful to the country. Could I have met you instead of your master to-night, I would have delivered myself into your hands, with a sum that much exceeds that in your strong-box, which I have sent you, with an assurance to my dear Martin that I shall ever be his most faithful friend till death.
:&quot;CHERRY BONIFACE.&quot;

There's a billet-doux for you! As for the father, I think he ought to be encouraged; and for the daughter—pray, my Lord, persuade your bride to take her into her service instead of Gipsy. 

Aim. I can assure you, madam, your deliverance was owing to her discovery.

Dor. Your command, my Lord, will do without the obligation. I'll take care of her.

Sir Chas. This good company meets opportunely in favour of a design I have in behalf of my unfortunate sister. I intend to part her from her husband—gentlemen, will you assist me? 

Arch. Assist you! 'sdeath, who would not?

Count Bel. Assist! garzoon, we all assist!

Enter Squire Sullen.

Squire Sul. What 's all this? They tell me, spouse, that you had like to have been robbed.

Mrs. Sul. Truly, spouse, I was pretty near it, had not these two gentlemen interposed.

Squire Sul. How came these gentlemen here?

Mrs. Sul. That's his way of returning thanks, you must know.

Count Bel. Garzoon, the question be apropos for all dat.

Sir Chas. You promised last night, sir, that you would deliver your lady to me this morning.

Squire Sul. Humph!

Arch. Humph! what do you mean by humph? Sir, you shall deliver her—in short, sir, we have saved you and your family; and if you are not civil, we'll unbind the rogues, join with 'em, and set fire to your house. What does the man mean? not part with his wife! 

Count Bel. Ay, garzoon, de man no understan common justice.

Mrs. Sul. Hold, gentlemen, all things here must move by consent, compulsion would spoil us; let my dear and I talk the matter over, and you shall judge it between us.

Squire Sul. Let me know first who are to be our judges. Pray, sir, who are you?

Sir Chas. I am Sir Charles Freeman, come to take away your wife. 

Squire Sul. And you, good sir?

Aim. Thomas, Viscount Aimwell, come to take away your sister.

Squire Sul. And you, pray, sir?

Arch. Francis Archer, esquire, come——

Squire Sul. To take away my mother, I hope. Gentlemen, you 're heartily welcome; I never met with three more obliging people since I was born!— And now, my dear, if you please, you shall have the first word. 

Arch. And the last, for five pounds!

Mrs. Sul. Spouse!

Squire Sul. Rib!

Mrs. Sul. How long have we been married?

Squire Sul. By the almanac, fourteen months; but by my account, fourteen years.

Mrs. Sul. 'Tis thereabout by my reckoning.

Count Bel. Garzoon, their account will agree.

Mrs. Sul. Pray, spouse, what did you marry for? 

Squire Sul. To get an heir to my estate.

Sir Chas. And have you succeeded?

Squire Sul. No.

Arch. The condition fails of his side.—Pray, madam, what did you marry for?

Mrs. Sul. To support the weakness of my sex by the strength of his, and to enjoy the pleasures of an agreeable society.

Sir Chas. Are your expectations answered?

Mrs. Sul. No. 

Count Bel. A clear case! a clear case!

Sir Chas. What are the bars to your mutual contentment?

Mrs. Sul. In the first place, I can't drink ale with him.

Squire Sul. Nor can I drink tea with her.

Mrs. Sul. I can't hunt with you.

Squire Sul. Nor can I dance with you.

Mrs. Sul. I hate cocking and racing.

Squire Sul. And I abhor ombre and piquet.

Mrs. Sul. Your silence is intolerable.

Squire Sul. Your prating is worse. 

Mrs. Sul. Have we not been a perpetual offence to each other? a gnawing vulture at the heart?

Squire Sul. A frightful goblin to the sight?

Mrs. Sul. A porcupine to the feeling?

Squire Sul. Perpetual wormwood to the taste?

Mrs. Sul. Is there on earth a thing we could agree in?

Squire Sul. Yes—-to part.

Mrs. Sul. With all my heart

Squire Sul. Your hand.

Mrs. Sul. Here. 

Squire Sul. These hands joined us, these shall part us. —Away!

Mrs. Sul. North

Squire Sul. South.

Mrs. Sul. East.

Squire Sul. West—-far as the poles asunder.

Count Bel. Begar, the ceremony be vera pretty!

Sir Chas. Now, Mr. Sullen, there wants only my sister's fortune to make us easy.

Squire Sul. Sir Charles, you love your sister, and I love her fortune; every one to his fancy. 

Arch. Then you won't refund?

Squire Sul. Not a stiver.

Arch. Then I find, madam, you must e'en go to your prison again.

Count Bel. What is the portion?

Sir Chas. Ten thousand pounds, sir.

Count Bel. Garzoon, I 'll pay it, and she shall go home wid me. 

Arch. Ha! ha! ha! French all over.— Do you know, sir, what ten thousand pounds English is?

Count Bel. No, begar, not ''justement.''

Arch. Why, sir, 'tis a hundred thousand ''livres.''

Count Bel. A hundre tousand ''livres''! Ah! garzoon, me canno' do't, your beauties and their fortunes are both too much for me.

Arch. Then I will.—This night's adventure has proved strangely lucky to us all—for Captain Gibbet in his walk had made bold, Mr. Sullen, with your study and escritoir, and had taken out all the writings of your estate, all the articles of marriage with this lady, bills, bonds, leases, receipts to an infinite value: I took 'em from him, and I deliver 'em to Sir Charles.

[Gives Sir Charles Freeman a parcel of papers and parchments.

Squire Sul. How, my writings!—my head aches consumedly.—Well, gentlemen, you shall have her fortune, but I can't talk. If you have a mind, Sir Charles, to be merry, and celebrate my sister's wedding and my divorce, you may command my house—but my head aches consumedly.—Scrub, bring me a dram.

Arch. [To Mrs. Sullen.] Madam, there's a country dance to the trifle that I sung to-day; your hand, and we'll lead it up.

[Here a Dance.

Twould be hard to guess which of these parties is the better pleased, the couple joined, or the couple parted; the one rejoicing in hopes of an untasted happiness, and the other in their deliverance from an experienced misery. 

:Both happy in their several states we find, 
:Those parted by consent, and those conjoined. 
:Consent, if mutual, saves the lawyer's fee. 
:Consent is law enough to set you free.

[Exeunt omnes.


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    <title>Author:Antonio Fogazzaro</title>
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 | firstname    = Antonio
 | lastname     = Fogazzaro
 | last_initial = Fo
 | description  = Italian writer of the late 19th and early 20th century; some of his works were not appreciated by the Roman Catholic hierarchy; involved with the Modernist movement
 }}

==Works==
* ''[[Malombra]]'' (1881)
* ''[[Stories by Foreign Authors (Italian)/Pereat Rochus|Pereat Rochus]]'' (1887) translated by [[Author:Arthur Lincoln Frothingham|Arthur Lincoln Frothingham]]
* ''[[Piccolo Mondo Antico]]'' (1895)
* ''[[Piccolo Mondo Moderno]]'' (1901)
* ''[[The Saint]]'' (1905) {{ssl|The Saint (1906, 6th ed.).djvu}}

==Works about Fogazzaro==
* {{EB1911 link|Fogazzaro, Antonio}}


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[[Category:Novelists]]
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 | firstname    = Antonio
 | lastname     = Fogazzaro
 | last_initial = Fo
 | description  = Italian writer of the late 19th and early 20th century; some of his works were not appreciated by the Roman Catholic hierarchy; involved with the Modernist movement
 }}

==Works==
* ''[[Malombra]]'' (1881)
* ''[[Stories by Foreign Authors (Italian)/Pereat Rochus|Pereat Rochus]]'' (1887) translated by [[Author:Arthur Lincoln Frothingham|Arthur Lincoln Frothingham]]
* ''[[Piccolo Mondo Antico]]'' (1895)
* ''[[Piccolo Mondo Moderno]]'' (1901)
* ''[[The Saint]]'' (1905), UK edition - {{ssl|The Saint (1906, 6th ed.).djvu}}

==Works about Fogazzaro==
* {{EB1911 link|Fogazzaro, Antonio}}


{{PD-old}}
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[[Category:Novelists]]
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    <title>Author:Earl Derr Biggers</title>
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      <comment>/* Charlie Chan novels */  ssl - The Chinese Parrot (Chineseparrotnov0000unse).pdf</comment>
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      <text bytes="5780" sha1="bsvls14tu684s0m3awa2d3f6ac5duqf" xml:space="preserve">{{author
 | firstname    = Earl Derr
 | lastname     = Biggers
 | last_initial = Bi
 | description  = American novelist and playwright. Remembered primarily for his novels, especially those featuring the fictional Chinese American detective Charlie Chan, from which popular films were made in the United States and China.
 }}

==Works==
* [[Seven Keys to Baldpate]] (1913) {{small scan link|Earl Derr Biggers - Seven Keys to Baldpate (1913).djvu}}
* [[Seven Keys to Baldpate (play)]] (with [[author:George M. Cohan|George M. Cohan]] (1914) {{smaller|play based on the novel}}
* [[Love Insurance]] (1914) illustrated by [[Author:Frank Snapp|Frank Snapp]]
* [[Inside the Lines (Biggers)|Inside the Lines]] (1915) (play)
* [[Inside the Lines (Biggers and Ritchie)|Inside the Lines]] (novel based on the play, 1915; with [[Author:Robert Welles Ritchie|Robert Welles Ritchie]])  
* [[The Agony Column]] (1916; alternative title: ''Second Floor Mystery'') Illustrated by Will Grefé.
* ''[[Fifty Candles]]'' (1921 serial; 1926 book) {{smaller|precursor to the ''Charlie Chan'' stories}}
* {{copyright-until|Earl Derr Biggers Tells Ten Stories|2029|pubyear=1933|renewal=R273252}}

===Charlie Chan novels===
* ''[[The House Without a Key]]'' (1925) {{small scan link|The house without a key, by Earl Derr Biggins (1925).djvu}}
* ''[[The Chinese Parrot]]'' (1926) {{ssl|The Chinese Parrot (Chineseparrotnov0000unse).pdf}}
* {{copyright-until|Behind That Curtain|2024|pubyear=1928|renewal=R151394}}, serialized in [[The Saturday Evening Post]] starting in [[The Saturday Evening Post/Volume 200|Vol. 200]], [[The Saturday Evening Post/Volume 200/Number 44|No. 44]] (April 28, 1928){{esl|1= https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31175008192240&amp;seq=40}}
* ''[[The Black Camel (Biggers)|The Black Camel]]'' (1929) {{small scan link|The_Black_Camel_(IA_blackcamel0000earl).djvu}}
* {{copyright-until|Charlie Chan Carries On|2026|pubyear=1930|renewal=R213428}} 
* {{copyright-until|Keeper of the Keys|2028|pubyear=1932|renewal=R241203&lt;!-- series of renewals from R241203 to R241209 --&gt;}}

===Magazine stories===
* &quot;[[A Transaction in Sewing Machines]]&quot; (ss), ''Los Angeles Herald Sunday Supplement,''  1907 
* &quot;[[The Red Book Magazine/Volume 14/Number 6/The Cruel Town|The Cruel Town]]&quot; (1910 April, ''The Red Book Magazine'') (ss)
* &quot;[[The Red Book Magazine/Volume 13/Number 3/Tickling the Palate of Pegasus|Tickling the Palate of Pegasus]]&quot; (ss) ''The Red Book Magazine'', 1909 July 
* &quot;[[The Red Book Magazine/Volume 13/Number 5/The Bird in the Cage|The Bird in the Cage]]&quot; (ss) ''The Red Book Magazine'', 1909 Sept 
* &quot;[[The Red Book Magazine/Volume 15/Number 5/The Sob Sister's Man|The Sob Sister's Man]]&quot; (ss) ''The Red Book Magazine'',  1910 Sept
* &quot;[[The Red Book Magazine/Volume 15/Number 6/The Great Reader|The Great Reader]]&quot; (ss)''The Red Book Magazine'', 1910 Oct
* &quot;[[Milly]],&quot; (ss) ''The American Magazine'' 1909
* &quot;[[The Red Book Magazine/Volume 16/Number 1/'Admirer'|'Admirer']]&quot; (ss) ''The Red Book Magazine'', 1910 Nov
* &quot;[[The Red Book Magazine/Volume 19/Number 1/A Patriot|A Patriot]]&quot; (ss)''The Red Book Magazine'', 1912 May 
* &quot;[[The Red Book Magazine/Volume 19/Number 5/Hats|Hats]]&quot; (ss) ''The Red Book Magazine'', 1912 Sept
* &quot;[[The Red Book Magazine/Volume 20/Number 4/Heels|Heels]]&quot; (ss) ''The Red Book Magazine'', 1913 Feb
* &quot;[[A Lost Quixote]]&quot; (ss), ''Harper's Weekly ,'' Aug 2, 1913
* &quot;[[The Ebony Stick (Biggers)|The Ebony Stick]]&quot; (ss) ''Collier's'' weekly, Sep 4, 1916 
* &quot;[[The Red Book Magazine/Volume 28/Number 4/Good Fishing|Good Fishing]]&quot;  (ss)''The Red Book Magazine'', 1917 Feb
* &quot;[[McClure's Magazine/Volume 49/Number 3/Soap and Sophocles|Soap and Sophocles]]&quot; 1917 July, ''McClure's Magazine'' (ss)
* &quot;[[The Red Book Magazine/Volume 31/Number 3/The Red-haired Rooster of the Rapaho|The Red-haired Rooster of the Rapaho]]&quot;  (ss) ''The Red Book Magazine'', 1918 July
* &quot;[[John Henry and the Restless Sex]]&quot; (ss), ''The Saturday Evening Post'',  March 5, 1921 
* &quot;[[The Saturday Evening Post/Trouping With Ellen|Trouping With Ellen]]&quot; 1922 Apr 8, ''The Saturday Evening Post'' (ss)
* &quot;[[The Saturday Evening Post/Meet the Wife|Meet the Wife]]&quot; 1922 May 27, ''The Saturday Evening Post'' (ss)

; Earl Derr Biggers Tells Ten Stories (1933)
* [[Moonlight at the Crossroads]] (''The Saturday Evening Post'', April 23 1927)
* [[Selling Miss Minerva]] (''Saturday Evening Post'', Feb 5 1921)
* [[The Heart of the Loaf]] (''The Saturday Evening Post'', Aug 5 1922)
* [[Possessions (Biggers)|Possessions]] (''The Saturday Evening Post'', Feb 3 1923)
* [[The Dollar Chasers]]  (''The Saturday Evening Post'', Feb 16 &amp; 23, 1924) novella
* [[Idle Hands]]  (''Saturday Evening Post'', Jun 11 1921)
* [[The Girl Who Paid Dividends]]  (''The Saturday Evening Post'', Apr 23 1921)
* [[A Letter to Australia]]  (''The Saturday Evening Post'', Feb 11 1922)
* [[The Saturday Evening Post/Nina and the Blemish|Nina and the Blemish]]  (''The Saturday Evening Post'', Aug 18 1928)
* [[Broadway Broke]] (''Saturday Evening Post'', Oct 7 1922)

;Longer works
* &quot;[[Ladies' Home Journal/Anybody's Husband|Anybody's Husband]]&quot; 1913 Nov to 1924 Jan, ''Ladies' Home Journal'' (3-part serial)
* [[Fifty Candles]] (1921) (''The Saturday Evening Post,'' May 7 &amp; 14, 1921) Illustrated by George E. Wolfe 
* &quot;[[The Saturday Evening Post/The House Without a Key|The House Without a Key]]&quot; 1925 Jan 24, ''The Saturday Evening Post'' (7-part serial)

==External sources==
* For those not subject to American copyright, more of his works are available at [http://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-a-m.html#biggers Project Gutenberg Australia]

{{PD/US|1933}}
{{authority control}}

[[Category:United States authors]]
[[Category:Novelists]]
[[Category:Playwrights]]
[[Category:Mystery authors]]</text>
      <sha1>bsvls14tu684s0m3awa2d3f6ac5duqf</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Talk:In Search of the Castaways; or Captain Grant's Children</title>
    <ns>1</ns>
    <id>240434</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132542</id>
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  |edition      = Vincent Parke and Company (volume 4), 1911.
  |source       = Project Gutenberg.
  |progress     = Text Complete. [[Image:50%.svg]]
  |notes        = See below.
  |contributors = ???
  |proofreaders = 
}}

==Notes==

This is an extremely poor quality version of Verne's work.

This work is based on a translation first published by Routledge in London in 1876, which is a fairly faithful reproduction of Verne. However, the Parke edition (edited by Charles F. Horne, Ph.D.) has removed four chapters (three from Part II, one from Part III), and significant parts of other chapters have been deleted. The friendship that develops between Robert Brown and Paganel (mainly around lengthy geographic/historical recitals by Paganel) is largely missing.

Chapter titles have been largely reinvented. For example, Part II, Chapter II is renamed Tristan d'Acunha and the Isle of Amsterdam, even though the latter is not reached until the following chapter. Chapter III has Cape Town added to the chapter title -- even though Cape Town was reduced to a single paragraph!!

Also note that ship names (DUNCAN) and other phrases that were italicized in Parke, are capitalized in this web version.

All in all, a very poor piece of work, which, unfortunately, is circulating widely on the internet. Even more unfortunately, I can't find any better versions circulating. Routledge (Part III only) is currently on archive.org. --[[User:Zaqrfv|Zaqrfv]] 06:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:You can find parts I and II on google books. Still the Routledge edition however. Still Routledge is the one check Marked by Evans as best available. The only other one is the Ward Lock published in one volume as Among the Cannibals. It likely suffers similar blemishes, though. The Lippincott is also on google-books, but that one has been thoroughly discredited by Evans. So OCR for you! --[[User:Varnesavant|Varnesavant]] 13 December 2008

::Where? I can only find summary pages on google books, and not PDF's, like here: [http://books.google.com/books?id=VwACAAAAQAAJ&amp;dq=intitle:grant+inauthor:verne&amp;lr=&amp;as_brr=0&amp;as_pt=ALLTYPES&amp;pgis=1] Maybe full copies are US only? Google books is like that....  &lt;small&gt;--[[User:Zaqrfv|Zaqrfv]] ([[User talk:Zaqrfv|talk]]) 19:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;
:Updated: Added wikidata {{Q|Q134890648}} (Lippincott) and {{Q|Q134891049}} (Routledge) with more links to Google Books, Internet archive etc for complete editions. [[User:Zaqrfv|Zaqrfv]] ([[User talk:Zaqrfv|talk]]) 23:26, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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        <id>20490</id>
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      <text bytes="2567" sha1="4rasg4qz8esk6ior26nyuy9b17ijddt" xml:space="preserve">{{textinfo
  |edition      = Vincent Parke and Company (volume 4), 1911.
  |source       = Project Gutenberg.
  |progress     = Text Complete. [[Image:50%.svg]]
  |notes        = See below.
  |contributors = ???
  |proofreaders = 
}}

==Notes==

This is an extremely poor quality version of Verne's work.

This work is based on a translation first published by Routledge in London in 1876, which is a fairly faithful reproduction of Verne. However, the Parke edition (edited by Charles F. Horne, Ph.D.) has removed four chapters (three from Part II, one from Part III), and significant parts of other chapters have been deleted. The friendship that develops between Robert Brown and Paganel (mainly around lengthy geographic/historical recitals by Paganel) is largely missing.

Chapter titles have been largely reinvented. For example, Part II, Chapter II is renamed Tristan d'Acunha and the Isle of Amsterdam, even though the latter is not reached until the following chapter. Chapter III has Cape Town added to the chapter title -- even though Cape Town was reduced to a single paragraph!!

Also note that ship names (DUNCAN) and other phrases that were italicized in Parke, are capitalized in this web version.

All in all, a very poor piece of work, which, unfortunately, is circulating widely on the internet. Even more unfortunately, I can't find any better versions circulating. Routledge (Part III only) is currently on archive.org. --[[User:Zaqrfv|Zaqrfv]] 06:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:You can find parts I and II on google books. Still the Routledge edition however. Still Routledge is the one check Marked by Evans as best available. The only other one is the Ward Lock published in one volume as Among the Cannibals. It likely suffers similar blemishes, though. The Lippincott is also on google-books, but that one has been thoroughly discredited by Evans. So OCR for you! --[[User:Varnesavant|Varnesavant]] 13 December 2008

::Where? I can only find summary pages on google books, and not PDF's, like here: [http://books.google.com/books?id=VwACAAAAQAAJ&amp;dq=intitle:grant+inauthor:verne&amp;lr=&amp;as_brr=0&amp;as_pt=ALLTYPES&amp;pgis=1] Maybe full copies are US only? Google books is like that....  &lt;small&gt;--[[User:Zaqrfv|Zaqrfv]] ([[User talk:Zaqrfv|talk]]) 19:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;
:Updated: Added wikidata {{Q|Q134890648}} (Lippincott), {{Q|Q134891049}} (Routledge) and {{Q|Q134891275}} (Ward Lock) with more links to Google Books, Internet archive etc for complete editions. [[User:Zaqrfv|Zaqrfv]] ([[User talk:Zaqrfv|talk]]) 23:26, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Morris-Jones Welsh Grammar 0418.png</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>254635</id>
    <revision>
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      <contributor>
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        <id>551</id>
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      <text bytes="3501" sha1="3uznng5qk6015evwqwju7ggnpgvcj9h" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Mahagaja&quot; /&gt;{{rh|418|{{uc|Accidence}}|§ 215}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{section|s215-iii-7|(7)}} '''yngŵyẟ''' ‘in the presence of’, ''yn fy ngŵydd'' ‘in my presence’, ''i’th ŵydd'' ‘into thy presence’, ''o’i gŵydd'' ‘from her presence’, etc.

''gŵyẟ'' [[A Welsh Grammar, Historical and Comparative/Phonology#s63-iv|§&amp;nbsp;63 iv]].

{{section|s215-iii-8|(8)}} '''o blegid''' ‘on account of’, ''o’th blegid'' ‘on thy account’; ''ym plegyd'' {{sc|m.a.}} i 306 ‘on account of’.

''plegid'' (''i'' for ''y'' after ''g'', [[A Welsh Grammar, Historical and Comparative/Phonology#s77-ii|§&amp;nbsp;77 ii]]) &lt; Lat. ''placitum''.

{{section|s215-iii-9|(9)}} '''ar gyfair''' (now misspelt ''ar gyfer'') ‘opposite’, ''ar fy nghyfair'' ‘opposite me’; ''ynghyfair'' ‘opposite, against, instead of’; Ml. W. ''ar gyveir'', ''yngkyveir'', etc.; ''y gyveir'' {{sc|w.m.}} 449 ‘the direction’.

{{fine block|
O.W. ''ar cyueyr'' {{sc|l.l.}} 141, ''ar ciueir'' do. 196; Ml. W. ''ar gyfeir'' {{sc|w.m.}} 250; ''yg̃hyveir'' do. 449, ''yg̃kyveir'' {{sc|r.m.}} 293 ‘opposite’, ''yn ẏ gyveir'' {{sc|r.m.}} 141 ‘in front of him, straight ahead’, Mn. W. ''ar gyfair'' D.G. 189 (rh. with ''leddf‑air'').

The reason for the misspelling is partly the dialectal pronunc., [[A Welsh Grammar, Historical and Comparative/Phonology#s6-iii|§&amp;nbsp;6 iii]]; and partly perhaps the form ''cyfer-'' in ''cyf-erbyn'' etc. All the derivatives, ''cyfeiriad'' ‘direction’, ''cyfeirio'' ‘to direct’, etc., are from ''cyfair''.

''cyfair'' &lt; *''kom-ari̯o‑'', a compound of *''kom-'' and *''ari̯o-'' &lt; *''pₑri̯‑o‑'', a noun formed from the prep. *''pₑri'': Lat. ''prae'', etc. [[A Welsh Grammar, Historical and Comparative/Accidence1#s156-i-6|§&amp;nbsp;156 i (6)]].
}}

{{section|s215-iii-10|(10)}} '''o flaen''' ‘in front of’, ''ymlaen'' id., ''o’m blaen'' ‘in front of me’, ''dos yn dy flaen'' ‘go in front of thee’, i.e. go on, ''ymlaen llaw'' ‘beforehand’.

{{fine block|
''dyvot'' '''ymlaen''' ''llu Ynys y Kedyrn'' {{sc|w.m.}} 54 ‘to come in front of the host of the Isle of the Mighty’; '''yn ẏ vlaen''' ''ac yn ẏ ol'' {{sc|r.m.}} 149 ‘before him and after him’; ''kerẟet'' '''oe blaen''' do. 49, {{sc|w.m.}} 68 ‘to walk before them’.

''blaen'', O.W. ''blain'': Corn. ''blyn'' ‘tip’, Bret. ''blein'', ''blin'' ‘bout, extrémité’. The meanings of the noun in W. are 1. ‘source’ (of a river) frequent in {{sc|l.l.}}, and common later, 2. ‘point’ (of a needle, blade, epear, twig, etc.), 3. pl. ''blaenau'' in place-names ‘outlying parts where valleys are hemmed in by mountains’. The orig. meaning seems to be therefore ‘discharge, project’; hence prob. √''ɡ{{sup|u̯}}elē‑'': Gk. {{grc|βάλλω}} ‘I throw’, {{grc|βλῆμα, βολή, βόλος}} ‘a throw’, {{grc|βολίς}} ‘arrow’, O.H.G. ''quellan'' ‘to well, to gush’, O. Norse ''kelda'' ‘source’, Gk. {{grc|βελόνη}} ‘needle’, Lith. ''gélti'' ‘to prick’, ''gelonìs'' ‘needle’, etc. The formation is not quite clear; the Corn. and Bret. forms seem to imply Brit. *''blani̯-'' (&lt; *''ɡ{{sup|u̯}}ə‑ni̯‑'': cf. Lith. ''gelonìs''); and the W. may represent the same with met. of ''i̯'', [[A Welsh Grammar, Historical and Comparative/Phonology#s100-v|§&amp;nbsp;100 v]]; *''ai'' &gt; *''oi'' &gt; ''ae'' after the labial. ''blaenaf'' [[A Welsh Grammar, Historical and Comparative/Accidence1#s149|§&amp;nbsp;149 i]].
}}

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    <title>Page:The Wentworth Papers 1715-1739.djvu/114</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133596</id>
      <parentid>8415499</parentid>
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upon the Duke of Barwick's Army and had totally routed 
them, and that the Duke was mortally wounded, and by the 
next post they expected to hear of his death. 

22 August^ 1709. 
* * * * 

The town is very empty and no manner of news but a fresh 
talk of Peace being as good as concluded, and I find few 
people that beleives you are gone to Carlsbad, some fancy 
you are gone upon some Secreet affair with King Augustus, 
Coll S{{sup|t}} Peirre's immagination has sent you to the Zare of 
Moscovy, and this day in the Amsterdam news I read you 
were agoing to Vienna in the Room of S{{+^|r|enor}} Philip Meadows, 
the Date of that paper is the 30th August, N.S. 

Mrs. Davers daughter is made a Bedchamber Woman, wch 
my sister Arundel had hopes of, and I am sorry for the dis- 
appointment, all her comfort is theres six now wch add to the 
number of a chance for a Vacancy. The Queen sent for the 
Dutchess from London to present Bell Davers, till when her 
grace had not been there since the Queen was at Windsor. 
The town talk as if the Dutchess has thoughts of resigning 
the Groom of the Stole, and that upon the condition lady 
Sunderland shou'd succeed her, but they say the Duke of 
Sommersett contess the matter for his Dutchess wch is what 

keeps the Dutchess of M from quiting. The Duke of 

Sommerset does keep close to Windsor, I don't think he has 
been three days absent this season. 'Tis certain the Dutchess 
has not nor does not designe to be much at Windsor, but I 
believe the talk of her resigning is nothing but town talk ; 
her house in the Priory advances prodigiously, 'tis - now a 
covering. 

[Lady Wentworth.] 

December q, IT oc). 

Dearist and best of children, I wish you a merry Crismas 

and a hundred happy new years .... Lady Comten will 

not yet see Lord Dorsett, her grandson, .... Lady Shas- 

bury is .... a pryvit Gentlewoman of noe great famely, her 

��
�&lt;noinclude&gt;
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The Court is still in deep morning, wearing Cofifs upon 
their coats sleeves, wch will be till Lady day, and no Arms 
upon the Coachs ; the rule for the morning of this year is to 
be as for a Father. Long pockets in the summer were liked 
to have obtain'd being an universal fashion, but this Winter 
its totally out again, and theres no but young fellows in the 
Army, and the Smarts of them that wears those Coats with 
bottons up the arms. 

London, 27 January, 17 10. 
Dear Brother, 

The matter of dispute between the Q{{longdash}}n and Duke 
of M{{longdash}} wch I writ you last post of with so much caution, I 
find is talked about everywhere with a great deal of freedom, 
and every body is giving their opinion wch is right, and wch 
is wrong, even of some things wch are doubtfull whether they 
ever were in agitation, being reported to have been so but by 
one Party, the Tories, who say, the junto promised the Duke 
of M{{longdash}} to use all their Interest to have him made General 
for life by the Queen, and then to have it confirm'd to him 
by act of P{{longdash}}; but this is deny'd by the whigs, this I heard 
one of the whigs own that at a meeting that lately was held 
of them, 'twas proposed that at the same time the Duke 
offer'd to lay down, all th' other great officers shou'd do so 
too, as Sir Simon Harcourt and Sir Tho. Mansel did when 
Harley and S{{sup|t}} Georges (''sic'') were turn out, but Lord Summers 
and L{{sup|d}} Treasurers were absolutely against any such thing, 
and I don't hear of many of them that was in earness in 
doing of it, so it went off What was reported as to the 
Duke's friends sounding all the General Officers as to their 
inclinations of standing by him and that 'twas found he cou'd 
depend upon none but Codagan and Merideth is said to be 
all false and an invention of the Tories to alarm the Q n 
with designes of the Duke which he never had, and by the 
relation I am a going to give you, wch I have from a very 
good hand, you'l see that the Duke and his friends deny ever 
having any thoughts of having the Parliament address the 
Queen for the removal of Mrs. Masham. Thus I am told&lt;noinclude&gt;
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soon, and as she told me she wou'd send for me when she 
had writ one, I dare not put her in mind on't, tho' I am very 
impatient you shou'd have it. The talk still continues as if 
there wou'd be changes at court, tho' now 'tis dwindle only 
to the removal of Lord Sunderland, for Earl Poulet, and 
among other reasons that are given that there is not a more 
thurrow rout, is that Harley and Lord Rotchester are not 
agreed who shall fill the vacancees. In most countys in 
England they are allready soliciting for Votes each party for 
Parliament men, for a new Parliament the high Church con- 
clude there will be, and the Whigs seems to fear it ; as for 
the Duke of Shrewsbury 'tis said he has promised the Whigs 
to be intirely in their interest and has promised the same to 
the Torys. Lord Halifax is to be marryed to lady Burling- 
ton. S{{sup|r}} Thomas Skipwith died last week at the Bath, and 
'tis reported to that Jack How is dead also there. 
* * * * 

��[Lady Wentworth.] 

June 13, 17 10. 

My dearist and best of children, I am now packing up for 
Twittingham, indeed the weather has been very colde al last 
week, this is a prety warm day. I hope to giv you a good 

acount next poste of your gardens You would have 

been pleesed to have sett in my place last Sunday at Whit- 
hall Chappell, for thear was Mrs. Brownloes and my Lady ; 
she that sat by me I take to be the youngest, for she has 
very lovly roundnes at the bottom of her face, and lovly eys 
and Ibrows. Thear was but twoe thear, the other is not soe 
handsom, but she is very soon to be marryed to Lord 
Willoby. My Lady was very much set out, but very ugly, 
as al old people ar that is very youthful in thear dres ; but I 
should hold my toung, for I have bought myselfe a very light 
gay mantoe of a silk that is al the mode, in hopse to see you, 
and will not put it one, tell I doe. 

��
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out of the way, and had rather have had my windows broke, 
then the trouble and the stink of the candles. I am just now 
come from dining at the D. of Ormond's, where contrary to 
custom there was but little company : My Lord Peterborough 
one of the number extreamly entertaining. 

[Peter Wentworth.] 

London, May 15, 1713. 
Dear Brother, 

Yesterday I was in the house of Commons from one a 
clock till ten, and had a great deal of sattisfaction in hearing 
a very regular debate, tho' those of the adverse party com- 
plain of not having fair play, the question being so often 
called for. The first dispute was if the several petitions and 
representations from marchants shou'd be read that had been 
given to the Commissionars of trade, and had been ordered 
to be laid before the house and was then before them ; but 
they being very voluminous and that extracts being made 
thereof, 'twas told the house by those that wou'd have the 
main business come on of the 8{{Sup|th}} and 9{{sup|th}} Article, 'twas 
sufficient for them to be read, and if any member wou'd call 
for any one perticular paper they might. But they wou'd not 
be sattisfied with any such thing, they wou'd have all or none, 
so the house devided if they shou'd then go into a committee 
of the whole house, to read over the treaty of Commerce and 
Navigation, wch was carry'd by a great Majority 311 and 103. 
Authur Moor began by setting forth what advantages the 
Queen had obtain'd for her subjects from France by this 
Treaty and talk't for an hour and half very well, and ended 
with this motion that the Committee wou'd come to a reso- 
lution to move the house for leave to bring in a bill to enable 
the Queen to make the 8{{sup|9th}} and 9{{sup|th}} Article effectual, wch was 
seconded by Sir James Bateman.* Letchmore opposed it, 
by desiring that they might read over all the act of Parlia- 
ments that such a Bill must of necessity recind. The Chan- 

* Member for Ilchester, Lord Mayor of London, 1717. 

��
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      <text bytes="1035" sha1="lfqraq9qh5int2sdx5v73z85wn4rq6q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;177 

��MARTYRDOM. (CM.) d = 84. 

��(FIRST TCJN'E) 

��HooH Wilson- (17C4-1S24). 

{{text removed}}

(SECOND TUNE) 
ST. STEPHEN. (CM.) d = 84. 
William Jones (1726-1800). 

{{text removed}}

William Cowper (1731-lSOO). 

OFOR a closer walk with God, 
A calm and heavenly frame! 
A light to shine upon the road 
That leads me to the Lamb! 

Where is the blessedness I knew 
When first I saw the Lord ? 

Where is the soul-refreshing view 
Of Jesus and his Word % 

What peaceful hours I once enjoyed! 

How sweet their memory still ! 
But they have left an aching void 

The world can never fill. 

��Return, Holy Dove ! return, 
Sweet Messenger of rest ! 

I hate the sins that made thee mourn, 
And drove thee from my breast. 

The dearest idol I have known, 

Whate'er that idol be. 
Help me to tear it from thy throne, 

And worship only thee ! 

So shall my walk be close with God, 
Calm and serene my frame ; 

So purer light shall mark the road 
That leads me to the Lamb ! 

��249 

��
�&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lfqraq9qh5int2sdx5v73z85wn4rq6q</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Seven Poems/little tree</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>290099</id>
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      <id>15131805</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>RaboKarbakian</username>
        <id>2427564</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>RaboKarbakian moved page [[Little tree]] to [[Seven Poems/little tree]]: Move within/to containing work</comment>
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      <text bytes="364" sha1="khmnfxxduww86enqcw6huz751wv08c9" xml:space="preserve">{{lowercase}}{{header
 | title      = little tree
 | author     = Edward Estlin Cummings
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | notes      = First published in ''[[Seven Poems]]'' in 1920, in ''[[w:The Dial|The Dial]]'' magazine.
}}

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}}


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[[Category:Modern poetry]]</text>
      <sha1>khmnfxxduww86enqcw6huz751wv08c9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131812</id>
      <parentid>15131805</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:05:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>RaboKarbakian</username>
        <id>2427564</id>
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      <text bytes="400" sha1="o1doacwa94jw9eg66gv9c8ylgh633lw" xml:space="preserve">{{lowercase}}{{header
 | title      = [[../]]
 | author     = Edward Estlin Cummings
 | section    = little tree
 | previous   = 
 | next       = [[../the bigness  of canon/]]
 | notes      = First published in ''[[Seven Poems]]'' in 1920, in ''[[w:The Dial|The Dial]]'' magazine.
}}

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[[Category:Modern poetry]]</text>
      <sha1>o1doacwa94jw9eg66gv9c8ylgh633lw</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 10.djvu/793</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>294582</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133336</id>
      <parentid>12831074</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:37:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa. →  Iowa.</comment>
      <origin>15133336</origin>
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      <text bytes="4350" sha1="fn3tl7ba56zajwc1hpkjok2cmhqtjxj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;'l`HIR'l`Y-SIGCOND CONGRESS. Sess. H. Ch. 65, 67. 1853. 753
John A. Lynch, for his services as a clerk in that department, from the
tenth day of August to the seventh day of December, in the year eighteen
hundred and forty-six, at the ra.te of three dollars per day.
Approved, February 11, 1853.
.11*. LXV.—-An Act Authorz`zz`n the Sccretan 0 t] r ui-
CH the British bark Huggy, under theduzge q“;`I(;d;13:dyLd`ir£2.c a Regmer zo  
Bc it enacted oy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, Tlmt the Secretary of the Register to
Treasury be and he hereby is, authorized to issue to William White, of ;§*“° $° uf
Boston, in the State of Massachusetts, a register for the British built q::,n:,lg,§,1:2;·cl1,°
bark &quot;F:mny,&quot; under the name of “Golden Mirror,&quot; the said bark G&lt;&gt;ld¤¤ M?¤*&gt;¤'-
having entered Boston in zi damaged condition; and was purchased by
the said XVilliam `Wliito, and by him rebuilt or repaired and changed to
n ship: Provided, Tlmt it shall be proved to the satisfaction of the proviso_
Secretary of the Treasury that the repairs upon said bark shall constitute three fourths of the value of the same when so repaired.
APPROVED, February 11, 1853.
CHAP. LXVH.—A1z Act jbr the Relief of the Town of Belleview, and the Cities of Feb. 14, 1853.
Burlington and Dubuque, in the Siau of Iowa. ———————-——
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, That there shall be and hereby Gum to gc]-
is grunted to the town of Belleview, in Iowa, the land bordering on the 1&lt;¤vi&lt;¤~v, I&lt;&gt;w¤, of
Mississippi River, in front of said town, reserved by the act of second #;'éd°}°j2Q’€dgff
July, eighteen hundred and thirty-six, for a public highway, and for other 202. i
public uses : together with the accretions which may have formed thereto,
or in front thereof'; to be disposed of in such manner as the corporate
authorities of said town may direct. The grant mode by this act shall
operate as a. relinquishment only of the right of the United States in and
to said premises, and shall in no manner a.il`ect the rights of third persons
therein, or to the use thereof, but shall be subject to the same; and on
application by El duly authorized agent of the corporate authorities of said
town to the Commissioner of the General Land Office, s. patent of relin- pmnth, mu,
quishment, in accordance with the provisions of this act, shall be issued zmdits etlbct.
therefor, as in other cases.
Sec. 2. And be it further enacted, That there shall be and hereby is _ Grant to Burgranted to the cities of Burlington and Dubuque, in Iowu, the land %LP;f8“l;;“*}0wn
bordering on the Mississippi River, in front of said cities, reserved by 0,- 1,,,,% ,;,0,,.03
the act of second July, eighteen hundred and thirty-six, for :1 public by net of 1836,
highway, and for other public uses, together with the accretions which ch' 262*
may have Formed thereto or in front thereof; to be disposed of in such
manner as the corporate authorities of said cities may direct.
Sec. 3. And be it further enacted, That the grant mode by this not G,,mmw“,m
shall. operate as :1. relinquishment only of the right of the United States operate.
in and to said premises, and shall in no manner a.H'cct the rights of third
persons therein, or to the use thereof, but shall be subject to the same;
and on application by at duly authorized agent of the corporate authorities
of' said cities to the Commissioner of the General Land Oince, u. patent Pntenttoissue.
of relinquishment, in accordance with the provisions of this act, shall be
issued therefor, as in other cases.
Sec. 4. And be it further enacted, That the lot or parcel of land in {,,,,,45,, publ,.
the city of Dubuque heretofore set apart and used by the authorities of &lt;1¤¢3e{1&lt;&gt;*g¤» Y¤;°f
said city as st cemetery or burying ground, under the act of Congress of xg}, ch_y2:;_
the second July, eighteen hundred and thirty-six, entitled “An act for ¤md1827,ch.a6,
the laying oil` the towns of Fort Madison and Burlington, in the county §{x‘“’d“° u‘°
of Des Moines, and the towns of Belleview, Dubuque, and Peru, in the &quot;
county of Dubuque, Territory of Wisconsin, and for other purposes,&quot;
v0L. X. Pmv. —— 95&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fn3tl7ba56zajwc1hpkjok2cmhqtjxj</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 12.djvu/187</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>295740</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133357</id>
      <parentid>12829441</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:43:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
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      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa, →  Iowa,</comment>
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      <text bytes="2918" sha1="ekayagj3j4132qm57n764ar6nlf2o0t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;i THIRTY—SIXTH CONGRESS. Sess. H. Ch. 57. 1861. 157
 W
i and Bedford, Taylor county, Iowa,and Mound City, Holt county, Missouri,
  to Wliite Cloud, Kansas.
2, From Oskaloosa to Montezuma.
  From Montezuma, via Blue Point, to Lynnville, in Jasper county.
i From Oskaloosa, via Flint, Granville, Lynnville, and Sugar Creek, to .
  Grinnell, Poweshiek county.
L From Cedar Bluffs to Mechanicsville.
  From Leoni, Butler county, via Boyland’s Grove, Union Ridge, Hamp-
E ton, County Seat, Franklin county, and Maysville, to Iowa Falls, Hardin
l county.
i From Shell Rock Falls, via Plymouth, Northwood, Shell Rock City,
and Saint Nicholas, to Albert Lee, Freeborn county, Minnesota.
From Wyoming, Jones county, to Louden, Cedar county, on the Cl1i·
cago, Iowa, and Nebraska railroad, crossing the Wapsapinicon river at
Oxford City.
KANSAS. Kunm-
From Merrimac to Eaton City, on the Republican river.
From Palermo to Kennekuk.
From Kennekuk to Louisville.
From Cottonwood Falls to Beach Valle .
From Cottonwood Falls, via Diamond Springs, to Junction City.
From Chelsea to Diamond Springs.
From Raysville (Osage posboffice), via Dayton, Turkey Creek, and
Rockford, to Pawnee City.
From Leavenworth, via Pratt’s Mission, Monticello, Olathe, Spring
Hill, Paolo, Paris, Moneka, Mound City, Mapleton, and Dogtown, to
Marmaton, in Bourbon county.
From Marysville, Marshall county, via Cottonwood Trading Post, to
Washington, Washington county.
From Humboldt, Allen county, via Osage City, Catholic Mission, Free
Point, and Saint John, to Fort Gibson.
From Carlyle, Allen county, via Geneva, to Neosho Falls, Woodson
county.
From Ohio city, Franklin county, via Central City, to Neosho Falls.
From Paoli, Lykins county, via Miami Village, New Lancaster, and
Rockville, to West Point, Bates county, Missouri.
From Topeka, via Burlingame, to Forest Hill.
From Atchison, via Saint Nicholas, Winchester, and Oskaloosa, to Lawrcnce.
From Atchison, via Lancaster, America, Irving City, and Blue River,
to Clifton, in Clay county.
From Lawrence to Salina, via Big Springs, Shields, and Brownville.
From Burlington, via Woodson Center, Nicaraugua, Verdigris, and
Salem, on the Arkansas river, to Sherman, Texas.
From Ossawatamie, via Jackson, Centreville, and Oakwood, in Linn
county, to Xenia, Bourbon county.
From Lawrence, via Minneola and Sac and Fox Agency, to Burlineton.
From Leavenworth City, via Platte City, Missouri, to Cameron, Missouri.
From Fort Riley, via Batchelder, to Gatesville.
From Leroy, Coffee county, to Neosho Falls, Woodson county.
From Atchison to Holton, in Jackson county.
From Atchison, via Lancaster, Monrovia, Morgota, Eureka, America,
and Clear Creek, to Merriman:.
From Junction City, to Denver City, via Smokey Hill, Fork of Kansas
v r.
n From Fort Scott, via Cow Creek, Mr. Baxtcr’s, Hudson’s, Z. Daniels
Sulphur Springs, Landrunfs, John Alberty’s, Pryar’s Creek, Duncan`s,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ekayagj3j4132qm57n764ar6nlf2o0t</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 17.djvu/205</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>305494</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133359</id>
      <parentid>12824578</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:43:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa  →  Iowa</comment>
      <origin>15133359</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3768" sha1="2gyhpshuzj9e95cgptx52pimfdt6c9y" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;FORTY—SECOND CONGRESS. Sess. II. Ch. 233. 1872. 165
CHAP. CCXXXIII.—An Act 'n' ’
Expenses of the Indian Departnnieaaldi   7é0;aiiiwSh';1rd1€z'iiorli.;l   
Indian Tribes, far the Year ending June thirty, eighteen hundred and seventy-three, and
for other Purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, That the following sums be, and Appropnations
they are hereby, appropriated, out of any money in the treasury not other- g’1&quot;}&quot;§i'?“S€f,°f
wise appropriated, for the purpose of paying the current and contingent p,,(;y,:€,m,,,§`
expenses of the Indian department, and fulfilling treaty stipulations with treaty stipulathe various Indian tribes: t‘°&quot;S‘
For pay of eight superintendents of Indian affairs, namely: Two Superintendsuperintendents ,for the tribes east of the Rocky mountains ; one for Ore- 8ms'
gon ; one for the Territory of Washington ; one for the Territory of New
Mexico; one for California; one for the Territory of Arizona; and one
for the Territory of Montana, nineteen thousand one hundred dollars.
For pay of sixty-eight agents of Indian affairs, viz. : Agents for
Five for the tribes in Oregon, viz.: l/Varm Springs, Klamath, Grand Vibes in _
Ronde, Siletz, and Umatilla agencies; Or°g°°’
Three for the tribes in Washington Territory, viz.: Noah Bay, Yakama, wsshgngm,
and S. Kokomish agencies;
Three for the tribes in California, viz.: Hoopa Valley, Round Valley, California;
and Tule River agencies;
Two for the tribes in Nevada, viz.: Pi—Ute and Walker River, and Nevada,
Pyramid Lake agencies ;
Two for the tribes in Idaho, viz. : Nez Perce and Fort Hall agencies; idaho;
Four for the tribes in Montana, viz.: Flat Heads, Blackfeet, Crow, and MO,,,,,,,,,&quot;
Milk River agencies ;
Nine for the tribes in Dakota, viz. : Whetstone, Yankton, Ponca, Upper Dakota;
Missouri, Grand River, Cheyenne River, Fort Berthold, Sisseton, and
Devil’s Lake agencies;
Two for the tribes in Wyoming, viz.: Red Cloud, Shoshone, and Ban- Wyoming;
nock agencies ;
One for the tribes in Utah, viz. : Uintah Valley agency; mah;
Six for the tribes in New Mexico, viz.: Albiquin, Navajo, Cirnmaron, New Mexico;
Mesealero, Apache, Southern Apache, and Pueblo agencies;
Two for the tribes in Colorado, viz.: Los Pinos and White River Colorado;
agencies;
Six for the tribes in Nebraska, viz. : Great Neinaha, Omaha, Winnebago, Nebraska;
Pawnee, Otoe, and Santee agencies ;
Three for the tribes in Kansas, viz.: Pottawatomie, Kaw or Kansas, Kansas;
and Kickapoo agencies;
Ten for the tribes in the Indian Territory, viz. : Sac and Fox, Quapaw, Indian Tern-
Neosho, Kiowa and Comanche, Upper Arkansas, WVich.ita, Cherokee, mi'?
Creek, Choctaw and Chickasaw, and Seminole agencies;
One for the tribes in Minnesota, viz.: Chippewa agency; Minnesota;
One for the tribes in Iowa, viz.: Sac and Fox of Iowa agency; Iowa;
Two for the tribes in Wisconsin, viz.: Green Bay and La Ponte agen· tv;,,,,,,,;,,,
cies ;
One for the tribes in Michigan, viz. : Mackinac agency; M;ch;g,,,,,
One for the New York Indians, viz. : New York agency: New ywk,
Four for the tribes in Arizona, viz.: Papago, Colorado River, Pima Arizona,
and Maricopa, and Moguis Pueblo agencies, one hundred and two thousand
dollars: Provided, That it shall be the duty of the President to dispense services of
with the services of such Indian agents and superintendents herein men- Such égcing Md
tioned as may be practicable ; and where it is practicable he shall require ?gpf;13;;£;:f’
the same person to perform the duties of two agencies or superintendencies with when pi-aofor one salary. “°*‘bl°‘
For pay of special agent for the Goship \Vestern and Northwestern Spscinlsgent&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2gyhpshuzj9e95cgptx52pimfdt6c9y</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 9.djvu/680</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>307981</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133221</id>
      <parentid>12804308</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:20:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa. →  Iowa.</comment>
      <origin>15133221</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4157" sha1="su4jeok3yc419tho4yru02l1j38ttdn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;vi LIST OF THE PRIVATE ACTS OF CONGRESS
John Milsted authorized to enter certain Lands. An act for the relief of John Milsted, of
Escambia. county, Florida. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 140  . ... 667
Daniel H. Warren to receive a Pension. An act for the relief of Daniel H. Warren. Aug. 8,
1846, ch. 141.  668
Patrick Kelly, Sen., to receive a Pension. An act for the relief of Patrick Kelly, senior, of
the county of Indiana, State of Pennsylvania. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 142  . .. 668
Solomon Russell to receive a duplicate Land Warrant. An act for the relief of Solomon Russell, of the county of Somerset, in the State of Maine. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 143. ... 668
Heirs of Dr. John Gray to receive $5000. An act for the relief of the heirs of Doctor John
Gray, deceased. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 144. .. . . .. . . . ... 668
Fishing Bounty on Schr. Washington. An act for the relief of Nathan Smith, Charles K.
Smith, and others. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 145. .. .  669
Amos Hunting to receive a Pension. An act for the relief of Amos Hunting. Aug. 8, 1846,
ch. 146. . 669
Richard H. Lee, $160 to be refunded to. An act for the relief of Richard Hargreave Lee,
Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 147.  669
Aquilla Goodwin to receive a Pension. An act for the relief of Aquilla Goodwin. Aug. 8,
1846, ch. 148 . . . . .. . .. 669
John R. Williams to be paid for Loss ofProperty. An act for the relief of John R. Williams.
Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 149. ... . . 670
Eli Merrill to receive a Land Warrant. An act for the relief of Eli Merrill. Aug. 8, 1846,
ch. 150 ... .  . ... .  . .. . .  670
Owners, &amp;c. of Pilot- Boat Washington to be paid for Loss by Collision with the Col. Harney.
An act for the relief of Gregory Thomas, and others. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 151 ... 670
James Gee to be paidfor Arrears of Pension. An act for the relief of James Gee. Aug. 8,
1846, ch. 152.. . . ... . .  670
Mary Seger to receive a Pension. An act for the relief of Mary Segar, of Jefferson county,
State of New York. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 153 . .  671
Excess of Duties to be refunded to S. D. Walker. An act for the relief of Samuel D. Walker,
of Baltimore. Aug. 8, 1846, cli. 154.  ni.  671
Ebenezer Conant to receive a Pension. An act for the relief of Ebenezer Conant, of the
county of Jefferson, State of New York. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 155. . 671
Land Entry by Administrator of James Anderson confirmed. An act to confirm an entry of
land made by the administrator of James Anderson, deceased, of Iowa. Territory.
Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 156 . . .. . ... . . . .. .. . . 671
Justin Jacobs to receive a Pension. An act for the relief of Justin Jacobs. Aug. 8, 1846,
ch. 157. . . . . . . ... 671
Sam. D. Enochs to be paid for a Metre lost. An act for the relief of Samuel D. Enochs.
Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 158 . .  .. . 672
Heirs, Qu:. of Cyrus Turner to be paid for Loss by Indian Hostilities. An act for the relief of the
heirs and legal representatives of Cyrus Turner, deceased. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 159. 672
Abraham Ansman to receive a Pension. An act granting a pension to Abraham Ansman.
Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 160.. ._ .. .  . .. 672
Elgah C. Babbit to receive a Pension. An act granting a pension to Elijah C. Babbit. Aug.
8, 1846, ch. 161 ... . ... . ... 672
Payment to Langtry Q Jenkins, for Breach of Contract. An act for the relief of Langtry and
Jenkins. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 162.  . .. 673
Representatives of John Ruddle authorized to enter certain Lands. An act for the relief of
the legal representatives ofJohn Ruddle. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 163 .. .  673
Benj. Allen to receive a Pension. An act for the reliefof Benjamin Allen. Aug. 8, 1846,
ch. 164. . . ... —  . ... .  . ... 673
Jolm Campbell to receive a Pension. An act granting a pension to John Campbell, of Garland, in the State of Maine. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 165 ... . .. 673
Surranus Cobb to receive a Pension. An act for the relief of Surranus Cobb. Aug. 8, 1846, I
011.166.  .  .  . .. .    673
Mary Phelps to receive a Pension. An act for the relief of Mary Phelps, of the county of
Gennessee, State of New York. Aug. 8, 1846, ch. 167.. . .. 674
Daniel Pratt to receive a Pension. An act granting a. pension to Daniel Pratt. Aug. S,
V 1846, ch. 168 . . . . . . ... 674&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>su4jeok3yc419tho4yru02l1j38ttdn</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 17.djvu/813</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>309045</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133360</id>
      <parentid>12823905</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:43:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa  →  Iowa</comment>
      <origin>15133360</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3895" sha1="cl9zaul4wqgcavx5hqu6y7fk0iqgms5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;FORTY-SECON D CONGRESS. Sess. III. Ch. 373-376. 1873. 7 73
mental, or acting brigade, division, or post quartermaster, or as regimental, or acting brigade, division, or post commissary of subsistence, which
were burned or otherwise destroyed by the rebel forces at McMinnville,
Tennessee, on or about the second day of October, anno Domiui eighteen
hundred and sixty-three, in such measure as such credit or relief shall
appear to such accounting officers, upon examination, to be justified
Approved, Merch 3, 1873.
HAP. CCCLXXIII. ——An Act or the Relie 0 B. . , e ie
C second Battalion sf; Months' Pfnriéyluangi gmjgewgt MWL uwmnt  
Bc it enacted by the Senate and Muse of Representatives of the (batted
States of America., in Congress assembled, That the paymaster-general Payment to B._
be, and he is hereby, authorized and required to pay to B. F. Speedy, late F- SP“dY·
iirst lieutenant of company G, second battalion six months' Pennsylvania
volunteers, the pay of 2. first lieutenant of intimtry from the ninth day of
July, anno Domini eighteen hundred and sixty-three, to the twenty-first
da.y_0f January, anno llomini eighteen hundred and sixty-four.
A1&gt;1&gt;R0vED, March 3, 1873.
CHAP. CCCLXXIV. —-An Actjbr the Relief of P. W. Standq/ér. Much 3, 1373,
Bc it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America, in Congress assembled, That the proper accounting 0Hi- Cl¤i¤¤ ¢&gt;*` P- W-
cer of the United States be authorized and directed to audit and allow the Eflzgxger °° b°
claim of P. W. Standefer, for services rendered as 2. telegraph operator `
by direction of the military authorities of the United States in the war of
the rebellion, for a, period not exceeding six months, at the rate of one
hundred dollars per month, and that the same be paid out of any money
in the treasury not otherwise appropriated: Provided, That it shall be Pmviso.
satisfactorily proved that such services were actually rendered.
Am-rqovnn, March 3, 1873.
CHAP. CCCLXXV.-An Act for the Reliq`ey&quot;.]Z W. Holliday. March 8, 1873.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America, in Congress assembled, That the paymaster-general of Yglnéniw ·Y·
the army be, and he is hereby, directed to pay to J. W. Holliday, late of W' °md°y’
company B, eighth regiment of Iowa volunteer cavalry, the pay and allowances of a second lieutenant of cavalry, from the twenty-sec0nd day of
February, eighteen hundred and sixty-five, to the date of his muster—0ut
of the service, deducting whatever psy he received as an enlisted man
during such period, and that such payment shall be made out of any
money appropriated for pay of the army.
Approved, Merch 3, 1873.
CHAP. CCCLXXVI. -An Act for the Re/{gf of William E. Ward. March  
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, That the commissioner of xtpplicsrtion of
patents be, and he is hereby, authorized to grant :1 rehearing of the §r’E;{’Q;‘n;§});&quot;v(;‘,l'd
application of William E. Wsi·d for the extension of let.ters·patent mm.; w bg m-
granted to him on the seventh day of October, eighteen hundred and fifty— h¢¤Fdsix, &quot; for improvement in machinery for making nuts,&quot; and' he is hereby
authorized to revive and extend the said letters-patent for the further
term of seven years from and after the seventh day of October, eighteen
hundred and seventy, notwithstanding the original term for which letterspatent were granted had expired, and the said petentee had petentedlthe
said invention in foreign countries, and such foreign patents had ertpired
before the seventh day of October, eighteen hundred and seventy, if in his
judgment the said patenbee was the original inventor of the invention
described in the said letters-patent, and the patentee has failed, without&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cl9zaul4wqgcavx5hqu6y7fk0iqgms5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 18 Part 2b.djvu/68</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>310625</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133365</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:43:17Z</timestamp>
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        <username>BD2412</username>
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      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa. →  Iowa.</comment>
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      <text bytes="2966" sha1="t6dnfrr9shxl2va5lpcymvg92aq0jlz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;66 POST-ROADS.
From Fort Wayne, byhCedar, Leo, Speneerville, Newville, and Panama,
' Oh' , t St J
mFr0lll I?`o·rztml?Vay:l§ by Fel River, Cherubusco, Green, Wolf Lake,
Burr Oak, Noble, Albion, Lngomer, Benton, and Goshen, to Elkhart.
From Fort Wayne, by Haller's Corners, Cherubnsco, Merrnen, Wolf
Lak Nobl Albion Li onier and Benton, to Goshen.
G; 91 1 g 1 ,
From Fort Wayne, to Liberty Mills, by the Manning and Tracy Settlents.
m‘ZFrom Fort Wayne, by New Haven, Antwerp, in Ohio,_ Junction, Deiianoe, Milldale, Florida, Napoleon, Durand, Texas, Providence, Waterville, an%Man$1ee City, tg Toledo) B1
From t a n ssian, n. _
From Flirt W£.yl1,e, by Perry, Butler, Auburn, De_Kalb, Hamilton,
Steulbenvillsaé Aingola, Crooked Creek, Kinderhook, in M1ch1gan, and
0, to C ater.
From Folit Wayne, by Perry, Swan, Avilla, Lisbon, Kendallville, Marseilles, South Milford, Mount Pisgah, Mongoquinnong, Ontario, and
Lima, to Sturges, in Michigan.
From Fort Wayne, by Poughkeepsie, Preble, Decatur, Canoper,
Limber Lost, Bear Creek, Joy Court~House, Bluif Point, and Deerfield,
to Winchester.
From Fort Wayne, by Rochester, Rensselaer, Lacon, in Illinois,
Toulon, New Boston, '1‘oolsboro’, Wapello, Washington, Oskaloosa,
Indianola, and Winterset, to Council Blnifs, in Iowa.
 lFort Wayne, by St. Joseph’s, Harlan, and Hall’s Corners, to
IC s e.
From Fort Wayne, by Saint Vincent, and Oil Ridge, to Auburn.
From Fort Wayne, Taw Taw, and Coesse to Whitly Court·House.
From Fort Wayne, by Warring, and Troy Settlement, to Liberty Mills.
Fiom Fort Wayne, by Zanesville, Markle, Warren, and Green Bush,
to arion.
From Francesville to Winnemac.
From Frankfort to King’s Corners.
TiFt1;»m Frankfort, by Kirkland, Hillsboro’, Berlin, and Tetersburg, to
p n.
From Frankfort, by New Brunswick, Elizabethtown, and Jamestown,
to Reese’s Mill Lebanon, and Danville.
From Franklin, by Bargersville, and Cope, to Martinsville.
From Franklin, by Beardstown, and Bogstown, to London.
wlérom gFtr’anklin, by Far West, Mooresville, Monrovia, and Stilesville,
prin wn.
From Franklin, by Oak Farm, to Elkinsville.
From Franklin, by Trafalgar, and Morgantown, to Martinsville.
stléiioxtnsgrvelplclaom, by Arney, intersecting the present established route
From Freedom, by Newark to Saulsbury.
v£‘v1:&gt;m Freeport, by Nicholas Kern’s, and L. J. Reeve’s, to Pleasant
From Fulton, by Millville, to Kewanna.
Frrgm gogutrywéille to)Felrdinand.
m rgewn yndianol Hik G ,adU bam?, to gimtEl?dti0¤. e, c ory rove n pper Em r
rom en ,byWestP' Sh M
t°I]?_8rmgm,{n¤mut6~ omt, awnee ound, and Sugar Gmvo,
·rom os en by Middleb to White P' .
From G}osheé1;b_y New Parllsfand Locke, tgggymouth.
rom ran i b G t 'll l S ‘
wigs10W, m P0wm%:,_g· y cu ryvi e, Po k Patch, Platt ville, and
rom Grandview by Newt ill B ifal `ll a
Morgan Hill, to Ferdinand. (mv 8, u ow e, S nm ClmS’ and
S°{!;&lt;;¤:1t;}36:;g:€tbeLby Eberle, Bainbridge, New Maysville, and North&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t6dnfrr9shxl2va5lpcymvg92aq0jlz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 18 Part 3.djvu/95</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>310751</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133368</id>
      <parentid>12821337</parentid>
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      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: ORTK → ORTE</comment>
      <origin>15133368</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3518" sha1="hecmc9x989xynr033uytyxr57qgnc2s" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;FORTETEIIRD CONGRESS. Sess. I. GH. 260, 261, 262. 1874. 65
American possessions, or in any case where the seamen are by custom
or agreement entitled to participate in the profits or result of a cruise,
or voyage. — r
· g Approved, June 9, 1874.
CHAP. 261.-An act to reduce the area of the military reservation of Fort Sanders, Juno 9, 1874.
and providing for the survey of said reservation as reduced. &quot;`;&quot;&quot;&quot;
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America, in Congress assembled, That the military reservation of Reduction of mm
Fort Sanders, in the Territory of Wyoming, is hereby reduced in area, Of miiitm; ¤&gt;¤&lt;—&gt;rv¤·
and the said reservation shall, after the passage of this act, be limited Qgg v§*’ MP'; S&quot;
and bounded as follows: Beginning nt the point where the old stage yung3m`&quot;&quot;`
road to Salt Lake crosses the Big Laramie River, end running thence .
east four miles; thence south tour and five tenths miles; thence in a.
west southwest direction to the junction of what is known as the Five
Mile Creek with the present south line of the reserve; thence along this
creek to its junction with the Big Laramie River; thence along said Big
Laramie River, to the place of beginning. ,
Sec. 2. That immediately after the passage of this act it shall be the gm-By
duty of the officerzcommanding the military department of the Platte,
under the direction of the Secretary of War, to cause em direct survey ot
said reservation to be made in conformity with the provisions of the
iirst section of this act, and to have posts or monuments planted at each
of the corners thereof, and so marked that they will indicate the boundaries of said reservation.
Sec. 3. That the lands heretofore constituting the Fort Sanders mili- Luna outside new
mry reservation outside of the limits of the new reservation, as donned 1‘*=¤¤1‘V¤*i&lt;&gt;¤ °1&gt;*&gt;¤ W
in section one of this act, shall be held to be and have been subject and °&quot;'”'Y·
liable to the operation of the laws of the `United States, in the same
manner and to the same extent as if the same had never been included
within the limits of said reservation: Provided, That in all cases where
any of said last mentioned lands would be subject to entry under the
pre-emption and homestead laws of the United States, the actual settlers Rights of sewers.
on said lands shall have the right and privilege to make proof and pay-
ment for their respective claims, under the provisions of the pre-emptiou
and homestead laws, by filing their declaratory statements, as provided
by existing leiws, at any time within six months from the passage of
this act.
Approved, June 9, 1874.
CHAP. 262.-—An act to grant an American register to the stcamship Suifolk and to yum, 9, 1g7d_
change the name of said ntaamship to that of Professor Morse. &quot;&quot;•‘—‘_*·‘·&quot;·—&quot;
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of lhpreeentatryesv of the United
Scam of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the Treas- American r¤·.;i¤t¤r
ury be, end he is hereby, authorized and directed to issue an American ;§lk““°'““*h’P S“f‘
register to the British steamship Suifolk, purchased for the account of '
the International Ocean Telegraph Company, and recently repaired at
the port of Baltimore, Maryland, and to change the nanie of said steam- Name &lt;=h¤·¤g¤d ’¤¤
ship from that of Sutlolk to that of Brofessor Morse, P*°f°“°” M&quot;'&quot;-
Approved, June 9, 1874.
_V01. 18, pb. 3-·5&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hecmc9x989xynr033uytyxr57qgnc2s</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133371</id>
      <parentid>15133368</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:44:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>additional scanno</comment>
      <origin>15133371</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3518" sha1="6gdj6raiz4lxb3s7eoig4azy9blgez0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;FORTY-THIRD CONGRESS. Sess. I. GH. 260, 261, 262. 1874. 65
American possessions, or in any case where the seamen are by custom
or agreement entitled to participate in the profits or result of a cruise,
or voyage. — r
· g Approved, June 9, 1874.
CHAP. 261.-An act to reduce the area of the military reservation of Fort Sanders, Juno 9, 1874.
and providing for the survey of said reservation as reduced. &quot;`;&quot;&quot;&quot;
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America, in Congress assembled, That the military reservation of Reduction of mm
Fort Sanders, in the Territory of Wyoming, is hereby reduced in area, Of miiitm; ¤&gt;¤&lt;—&gt;rv¤·
and the said reservation shall, after the passage of this act, be limited Qgg v§*’ MP'; S&quot;
and bounded as follows: Beginning nt the point where the old stage yung3m`&quot;&quot;`
road to Salt Lake crosses the Big Laramie River, end running thence .
east four miles; thence south tour and five tenths miles; thence in a.
west southwest direction to the junction of what is known as the Five
Mile Creek with the present south line of the reserve; thence along this
creek to its junction with the Big Laramie River; thence along said Big
Laramie River, to the place of beginning. ,
Sec. 2. That immediately after the passage of this act it shall be the gm-By
duty of the officerzcommanding the military department of the Platte,
under the direction of the Secretary of War, to cause em direct survey ot
said reservation to be made in conformity with the provisions of the
iirst section of this act, and to have posts or monuments planted at each
of the corners thereof, and so marked that they will indicate the boundaries of said reservation.
Sec. 3. That the lands heretofore constituting the Fort Sanders mili- Luna outside new
mry reservation outside of the limits of the new reservation, as donned 1‘*=¤¤1‘V¤*i&lt;&gt;¤ °1&gt;*&gt;¤ W
in section one of this act, shall be held to be and have been subject and °&quot;'”'Y·
liable to the operation of the laws of the `United States, in the same
manner and to the same extent as if the same had never been included
within the limits of said reservation: Provided, That in all cases where
any of said last mentioned lands would be subject to entry under the
pre-emption and homestead laws of the United States, the actual settlers Rights of sewers.
on said lands shall have the right and privilege to make proof and pay-
ment for their respective claims, under the provisions of the pre-emptiou
and homestead laws, by filing their declaratory statements, as provided
by existing leiws, at any time within six months from the passage of
this act.
Approved, June 9, 1874.
CHAP. 262.-—An act to grant an American register to the stcamship Suifolk and to yum, 9, 1g7d_
change the name of said ntaamship to that of Professor Morse. &quot;&quot;•‘—‘_*·‘·&quot;·—&quot;
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of lhpreeentatryesv of the United
Scam of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the Treas- American r¤·.;i¤t¤r
ury be, end he is hereby, authorized and directed to issue an American ;§lk““°'““*h’P S“f‘
register to the British steamship Suifolk, purchased for the account of '
the International Ocean Telegraph Company, and recently repaired at
the port of Baltimore, Maryland, and to change the nanie of said steam- Name &lt;=h¤·¤g¤d ’¤¤
ship from that of Sutlolk to that of Brofessor Morse, P*°f°“°” M&quot;'&quot;-
Approved, June 9, 1874.
_V01. 18, pb. 3-·5&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6gdj6raiz4lxb3s7eoig4azy9blgez0</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 18 Part 2b.djvu/182</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>311081</id>
    <revision>
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      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa. →  Iowa.</comment>
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      <text bytes="2779" sha1="7y2s0bzwbgp2z21dqenm9zte4d98h3r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;180 rosrizoans.
From Blair to West Point. _
From Blue Springs, to Atchison, m Kansas.
From Bluff City, in Iowa, to Omaha City.
From Bluff City, in Iowa, to Winter Quarters.
From Brownville, by Falls City, to H1ghland,m Kansas.
From Brownville to New Fort Kearney.
From Brownville to Grant. _
From Brownville, to Linden, in Missour1.
From Brosvnville, by Monterey, Frankhn, and Long Branch, to Table
Rock.
From Brownville, by lemaha City, Archer, Falls City, Monterey,
Salem, Pleasantville, and Pawnee City, to Table Rock.
From Brownville, by Ncmaha City, Monterey, Scott7s, B0denberg’s,
and Middleburg, to Sabetha, in Kansas.
From Brownville, by N omaha City, Pern, Winnebago, Saint Stephens,
Yancton, and Rulo, to Saint Joseph, in Missouri.
From Brownville, to Rockport, in Missouri.
From Brownville, by Saint Frederick, Tecumseh, Vesta, and Austin,
to Camden. ·
From Brownville to Table Rock.
From Brownville, by Tecumseh, and Austin, to Beatrice.
From Brownville, by Weddlie’s Bridge, Steinman, Moses Milk’s, Table Rock, Pawnee City,‘West Branch, and Mission Creek, to Maryville,
in Kansas.
S From Calla, by Tipp’s Branch, Liberty, and Wild Cat, to Blue
PFU188-
From Camden, by the west branch of Blue River, West’s Mills, Beaver Crossing, and McFadden, to Fort Kearney.
From Columbus to Camden.
0 From Columbus, by Clear Creek, Osceola, and Lincoln Creek, to York
entre. '
From Columbus to Crete.
From Columbus, by Hammond, to Niobrara. .
From Columbus, by Lost Creek, William&quot;s Ranch, and Newman’s
Grove, to Oak Dale.
From Columbus to Madison.
From Columbus, by Monroe, to Genoa.
From Columbus to Norfolk.
From Columbus, by Pepperville, and Summit, to Ulysses. `
Dlillrotm Columbus, by Pleasant Run, and Saint Helena, to Yancton, in
a o a.
From Cottonwood Springs to McPherson.
KFrom Cottonwood Springs, by Republican Fork, to Fort Riley, in
ansas.
From Cottonwood Springs, by Stockville, to Red Willow.
From Covington, to Sioux City, in Iowa. »
F Ftrolm Dakota City, by Ayoway Creek, and Running Water River, to
o aramie.
From Dakota City to Fort Pierre.
From Dakota City, along the Missouri River, to Fort Randall.
From Dakota City, by Galena, to Pacilic City.
_From Dakota City, by Ponca, Saint James, Saint John’s, Franklin,
Niobrara, and other intermediate offices, to Fort Randall, in Dakota.
From Dakota City, by Saguachi, Canton, and York City, to Madison.
From Dakota City to Sergeant’s Bluff, in Iowa.
From Dakota City, by Sergeant’s Bluff, to Des Moines, in Iowa.
From Makota City, by West Point, to Columbus. `
From Dakota City, to Yancton, in Dakota.
From Decatur, by Ashton, and Belvidere, to Dennison, in Iowa.
mggrogn Degahting by Logan Valley, West Point, Saint Charles, and Jn-
, u
. From De Soto, by Arizona, to Decatur.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7y2s0bzwbgp2z21dqenm9zte4d98h3r</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 18 Part 3.djvu/469</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>311864</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133366</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:43:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: ORTK → ORTE</comment>
      <origin>15133366</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3188" sha1="3zalv8d5u8jyj6okkcfdl9f8h49irok" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;ivonrrcrmnn oonensss. sees. rr. on. 132. 1875. 439
For interest, at nve per centum, on forty-three thousand and nfty dol- 1g4G, c. 34, v. 0,
lars, transferred from the Ontario Bank to the United States Treasury, P·3°·
per act of June twenty-seventh, eighteen hundred and forty-six, two
thousand one hundred and fifty-two dollars and fifty cents.
p SENEOAS AND SHAWNEES.
For permanent annuity, inspecie, per fourth article of treaty of Sep- S ¢ ¤ e 0 e ¤ Md
tember seventeenth, eighteen hundred and eighteen, and nfth article of Sh‘*&quot;&quot;‘°°“·
treaty of February twenty-third, eighteen hundred and·sixty-seven, one Vc1.7,p. 179.
thousand dollars.
For blacksmith and assistant, shop and tools,iron and steel, per fourth Vol. 7, p. ssa
article of treaty of July twentieth, eighteen hundred and thirty-one, and Vol. 15, pp- 514.
fifth article of treaty of February twentythird, eighteen hundred and 515-
sixty-seven, one thousand and sixty dollars.
SHAWZNEES.
For permanent annuity, for educational purposes, per iourth article of shawnees.
treaty of August third, seventeen hundred and ninety-five, and third Vo1.'I,p.51.
article of treaty of May tenth, eighteen hundred and Bfty-four, one thou- Vol. 10,p. 1056.
sand dollars. .
For permanent annuity in specie for educational purposes, per fourth Vol. 1, p. 161.
article of treaty of September twenty-ninth, eighteen hundred and
seventeen and third article of treaty of May tenth, eighteen hundred
and fifty-flour, two thousand dollars.
_ For interest, at five per centum, on forty thousand dollars, for educational purposes, per third article of treaty of May tenth, eighteen hundred aud fty-four, two thousand dollars
I SHOSHONES.
{ EASTERN BANDS.
For twelfth of twenty installments, to he expended, under the direction Sh°¤h&lt;&gt;¤¤¤·
of the President, in the purchase of such articles as he may deem suit- Eastern hands.
able to their wants, either as hunters or herdsmen, per nfth article of I’&lt;&gt;·¢¢.686·
treaty of July second,‘eighteen hundred and sixty-three, ten thousand
dollars.
wmstrmm BANDS. A
hor twelfth of twenty installments, to be expended under the direction Western bands.
of the President, in the purchase of such articles as he may deem suit- p,,,,, 690.
able to their wants, either as hunters or herdsmen, per seventh article `
of treaty of October first, eighteen hundred and sixty-three, five thousand dollars.
NORTHWESTERN Bhrcos.
For twelfth of twenty installments, to be expended, under the direction Nvrthwen tern
of the President, in the purchase of such articles as he may deem suit- l’“d“·
uble to their wants, either as hunters or herdsmen, per third article of Vol-13.p. 663.,
treaty of July thirtieth, eighteen hundred and sixty-three, five thousand
dollars. ‘ - l
GOSBIP BAND. .
For twelfth of twenty installments, to be expended, under the direction Goship band.
of the President, in the purchase of such articles, including cattle for vc,_13,,,_68g_
herding or other purposes, as he shall deem suitable to their wants and
rendition as hunters or herdsmen, per third article of treaty of October
welfth, eighteen hundred and sixty-three, one thousand dollars.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3zalv8d5u8jyj6okkcfdl9f8h49irok</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 20.djvu/41</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>315112</id>
    <revision>
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      <parentid>12820157</parentid>
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      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa  →  Iowa</comment>
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      <text bytes="2263" sha1="1hh0vta2lifjcltecj8pzfmyie6ohn9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;16 FORTY—F1FTH CONGRESS. Sess. II. Ch. 7. 1878.
GEORGIA.
G¤&lt;&gt;¤‘zl¤· From Bowdon, Georgia, to Copper Mines, Alabama.
From Cave Spring Georgia, to Centre Alabama.
From Blaiusville to Gaddestown.
From Atlanta, via Sand Town, to Chapel Hill.
From Leavy to Twiner’s Store.
From Canton, via Cherokee Mills and Ackwortb, to Dallas.
From Dallas, via Nebo, and Henderson’s Store, to Villa Rica.
From Oakland to Rocky Mount.
From Hickory Flat to Canton.
From Clarksville to Bartons.
From Garden Valley to Reynolds.
From Hartwell by Parker’s Store and Goodwill to Tocoa City.
IOWA.
Iowa. From Waverly to Oelwein.
From Nautreville to Janesville.
From Coldwater to Green.
From Forest City to Fertile.
From Geneva to Congress.
From Hunnerton, via Cambria and Peoria, to Allenton.
From Stewart, via West Milton Hawey’s Mill, and Brough, to Perry.
From Fontanelle, via Adair, Jackson, and Grove to Exira.
From Montezuma, via Telton and Deep River, to Verona.
From Iowa City, via Coralville, North Liberty, Chase, and Danforth,
to Fairfax.
From Iowa City, via Morfordsville, to River Junction.
From Solon, via McLellan’s Ferry, to Lisbon.
From Cresco, via Kendanville, Iowa to Elliota Minnesota.
From Pomeroy to Emmetsburg.
ILLINOIS.
IUi¤¢&gt;i¤· From Bushnell to Babylon.
From Homer to Newmou.
From Petersburg to Loyd.
From St. Anne, via Pembroke, Illinois, to Morocco, Indiana.
From Hennepin, via Florid to Cottage Hill.
INDIANA.
Indians. From Salem to Livonia.
KENTUCKY.
Kentucky- From Lafayette, Kentucky, via Weaver’s Store, Big Rock, and Dyer’s
Creek, to Dover, Tennessee.
From New Columbus, to Corinth. .
From Bergin to Bryantsville.
From Robinson Creek, up the Long Fork of Shelby to its head, down
Boons Fork of the Kentucky River, to the mouth of 'I‘horuton’s Creek
up same to the head, down the Rockhouse Fork of the Kentucky River
to Collins.
From Prestonburg, via the mouth of Beaver Creek, Alphoretta and
McDowell’s to Beaver.
From Cumberland Gap, via Clean Ford of Yellow Creek, Bronney’s
Creek, Josiah Miracles, Bend of Cumberland River, and Ballenger Calloway’s to George Percifull’s on Clear Fork of Yellow Creek.
From Stanton, via Fitchburg to Irvine.
From Harrisonville to Paytona.
From N ew Columbus to Corinth.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 22.djvu/394</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>317225</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133373</id>
      <parentid>12818332</parentid>
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      <text bytes="2634" sha1="qcwa5r9ecnoql70kr9wynjrid2ubbas" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;FORTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS. Sess. I. C11. 448. 1882. 367
VERMONT. Vermont;
From Searsburgh to Heartwellville.
VIRGINIA. Virginia;
From Hardwicksville to Buckingham C. H.
From Abingdon, via Shortsville, to Saltville.
From Dump’s Creek, via Elisha Sutherland’s, the J essee Place, and
James Sutherland’s to Sand Lick.
From Aldie, via Hickory Grove, to Hay Market.
From Independent Hill to Brentsville.
From Lon gfield, via White Shoals and Silver Leaf to Boon’s Path.
From Shawyefs Mill to Nickelsville.
From Pound, via Holly Creek and Grassy Creek, to Big Rock.
From Big Branch to Fugate’s Mill
From Litwalton to Monaskon.
From Wellville Station to Spainville.
From Dennisville to Spainville.
C Féom Factory Mills, via Dabney’s and Perkinsville to Goochland
From Haymarket, via Waterfall, to Landmark.
From Burgess Store to Fairport.
From Shackleford’s to Oakville.
From Whittle’s Station, via Robertson’s old store and Chalk Level,
to Mount Airy.
From Churchville, via Jenning’s Gap and Cross, to Lebanon White
Sulphur Springs.
From Keczletown, via Paulington, Oakwood, O’Rourke, Jirkle’s
Cavern’s, to New Market.
From Elkton to Standardville.
From Palmyra to B. M. Church’s.
From Factory Mills, via Perkinsville, to Goochland C. H.
From Hadensville, via Gum Spring, to Goochland C. H.
From Warm Springs to Letcher. .
From The Falls to Nottoway C. H.
From Shenandoah Iron Works to Furnace No 2 ·
From Young’s Store to Waidsboro.
From Peytonsburgh to Riceville.
From Amelia. C H. via Mannborough, to Church Road. .
From Waynesborough to Hermitage. ,
From Kyle, along Cripple Creek, via Beverly Famer, Wyth and
Irondale Furnaces, Eagle and Raven Clilf Furnaces, Brown Hill Furnace, Wyth Lead and Zinc Mines, New River Furnace, Barun Springs
Furnace, and Bertha Zinc Mine, to Reed’s Island.
From Locust Grove to Burr Hill. -
From Cricket Hill to Mattheus C. H.
From Manteo, via Sycamore and Mount Vinco, to Buckingham C. H.
From Christianburgh, via Auburn, to Childress Store.
From Pamplin City, via Red House, to Baileyfs Store.
From Rocky Gap, via Tazewell C. H. to Grattm.
From Lowesville to Roseland.
From ¥\’eyer’s Cave to Mount Meridan.
From Silcott Springs to Philomont.
From Forkland to Wellville.
From Harper’s Home to Octagon. _
From Hillsville, via Fremont, to Jacksonville. _
From Ridgeway, via M atrimony, to Leaksvllle, North Carolina.
From Bick1ey’s Mills, via Russell, to 0sborn’s Ford. ,
From Lexington, via Wm. Aplin’s and Colhers Town to McKenney s
` l.
Mlliirom Bewler’s Wharf via Centre Cross, Hollow Chestnut, Carlton’s
Store, Stevensville, to Walkertown.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 22.djvu/480</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>317741</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133374</id>
      <parentid>12818239</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:44:27Z</timestamp>
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        <id>1511</id>
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      <text bytes="4151" sha1="re57zldsh16fjb6movgxgw7fm5vek6n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;FORTY SEVENTH CONGRESS. Sess. II. Ch. 90-92. 1883. 453
CHAP. 90.-An act to proyidc for the erection of a public building in Jefferson Mar. 3, 1883.
C1ty, m the State of Missoun. ··€—--
Be it enacted   Unc Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of  AM6T|CG on Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the PHWG b¤im}¤g·
Treasury 18 hereby authorized and directed to purchase :1, site for, and §i‘if?’“&quot;“t.C&quot;§¤ .
cause to be erected thereon, a. suitable building, with Em-proof vaults &amp;u(Qfo,?;:3    ’
extending to each story, in J eiferson City, in the State of Missouri, for Purchase of sim.
the use and accommodation of the United States circuit and district
courts, post-cflicc, and other government offices held and located in said
city, which site shall leave the building uucxposed to danger from fire
in adjacent buildings by an open space of at least fifty feet, including
streets and alleys; the site, and the building thereon, when completed
according to plans and specifications to be previously made and approved by the Secretary of the Treasury, not to exceed the cost: of one cm.
hundred thousand dollars; und said sum of one hundred thousand dol- APP¤&gt;1¤i¤*i°¤·
lars is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwisc appropriated, for the purchase of said site and the completion
of said building: Provided, That no part of said sum shall be expended Pf¢¤€¤¤·
until a valid title to said site shall be vested in the United States, and T‘*1°·
the State of Missouri shall cadc to the United States exclusive jurisdiction ovcr the same, during the time the United States shall be or remain
the owner thereof; for ull purposes except the administration of the
criminal laws of said State and the service of any civil process therein.
Approved, March 3, 1883.
CHAP. 91.-An act to amend the pension laws by increasing the pensions of Mar. 3, 1883.
soldiers and sailors who have lost an arm or leg 1u the service, and for other -—————
pH11i0S8S.
Bc it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, That from and after the pas-  I¤¤¤‘¤¤¤¤_•&gt;f wi;
sage of this act all persons on the pension-roll, and all persons hereafter :‘5:)‘:§°::gf”h:§°
granted a. pension, who, while in the military or naval service of the lowan mm ,,1,,8
United States, and in the line of duty, shall have lost one hand or cnc in service. .
foot, or been totally or permanently disabled in the same, or otherwise ‘
so disabled as to render their incapacity to perform manual labor equiv- Eqnivsiont in
alcnt to the loss of a hand cr a foot, shall receive a pension of twenty- °¤P¤°**Y·
four dollars por month ; that all persons now on the pension-roll, and
all persons horoattcr granted a pension, who in like manner shall have
lost either an arm at or above the elbow, or a log at or above the knee, Lou of nm
or shall have been otherwise so disabled as to be incapacitated for  
performing any manual labor, but not so much up to   regular °g -
personal nid and attendance, shall rcccivo a pension of thirty dollars
por month : Provided, That nothing contained in tlus act shall be con-.   gm
  stmod wraps! suction forty-six hundred and ninety-nine of the Rc- ‘ ’
viscd Statutes of the United States or to change qbc rate   qightocn
dollars par mouth therein mentioned to bqprepcrpnonatcly 4g1V1d8d for
uny degree of disability established for which section forty-su: hundred
and ninety-tivo makes no provision.
Approved, March 3, 1883.
.. ‘’ or he service of the P0¤t·OBcc Dc- Mar. 3 1883.
  §fo1Hb?g;?$§r:£§¥g };;$zh€digth, eighteen hundred and eighty- ————·J—--···
 d for other purposes.
Be it enacted the Senate and House of Repreacntativespf the United _ _  
Staten o Amerieé? in Con ess assembled, That the following sums bc, APP&quot;?P“°*‘° '
f W _   . fornorncc of Postand the sauna are hereby appropriated for tlyc servncc of the Post-Office 0mc°D,pm,m,m 
Department for the year ending J unc thirtneth, engbwcn hundred and 5 sm., a1.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 24.djvu/632</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>318660</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133377</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:44:33Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="4192" sha1="i5pqjnld3cunwl3pgndn46f7ogh15qs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;FORTY-NIN TH CONGRESS. Sess. II. Ch. 392. 1887. 599
dollars each; nine messengers, at one thousand dollars each; seven
laborers, at seven hundred and twenty dollars each; two laborers in the
water-closet, at seven hundred and twenty dollars each; three laborers, including two in the cloak-rooms, at six hundred dollars each;
female attendant in ladies’ retiring-room, six hundred dollars; super- Superintendent
intendent of the tolding-room, two thousand dollars; three clerks in of folding·room.
the folding-room, one at one thousand eight hundred dollars and two
at one thousand two hundred dollars each; one foreman, one thousand five hundred dollars; one messenger, one thousand two hundred dollars; one folder in the sealing-room, one thousand two hundred dollars; one page, flve hundred dollars; one laborer, four hundred
dollars; ten folders, at nine hundred dollars each; five folders, at eight
hundred and forty dollars each; three folders, during the session, at
sixty-seven dollars per month each; and fifteen folders, at seven hundred -
and twenty dollars each; one night watchman, nine hundred dollars;
one driver six hundred dollars; fourteen messengers on the soldiers’
roll, at one thousand two hundred dollars each; two chief pages, at nine Psges,etc.
hundred dollars each; thirty-three pages, during the session, including ·
two riding pages, one telephone page, and one telegraph page, at two
dollars and fifty cents perday each; two messengers, during the session, at sixty-seven dollars per month each; ten laborers, during the
session, at sixty dollars per month; six laborers known as cloak-room
men, during the session, at fifty dollars per month; in all, one hundred and
twen ty-eight thou sand seven hundred and eleven dollars and fifty cents.
OFFICE OF POSTMASTER.—FOT Postmaster, two thousand five hun- Postmaster, asdred dollars; first assistant postmaster, two thousand dollars; ten mes- ¤l¤l¤¤l¢» ¤l&lt;=·
sen gers, including messenger to superintend transportation of mails, at
one thousand two hundred dollars each; three messengers, during the
session, at eight hundred dollars each; four messengers, at one hundred
dollars per month each, during the session; and one laborer, at seven
hundred and twenty dollars; in all, twenty-two thousand four hundred
and twenty doHars. `
For hire of horses and mail-wagons for carrying the mails, five thou- H°”°¤ and “‘°8·
B811d d0ll8.rS. ons. ’
01··1uc1.p. REPORTERS.—Fof one chief otheial reporter, six thousand I?P°m¤H P'°·
dollars; and four official reporters of the proceedings and debates of the °°° ‘&quot;g°‘
House, at five thousand dollars each; messenger to the official reporters, _
one thousand dollars; in all, twenty-seven thousand dollars. And
wherever the words “during the session” occur in the foregoing they _*‘Dnring the sesshall be construed to mean seven months, or two hundred and thirteen ¤*°“” *° '¤°¤¤ “°&quot;·
days- encmonths.
ontin ent cx-
Fon CONTINGENT EXPENSES, NAMELY: For materials for folding, pauses. g
sixteen thousand dollars. fo;g$°&quot;“l“ f ° ’
For fuel and oil for heating apparatus, seven thousand dollars. Fuvluud vil-
For furniture, and repairs of the same, ten thousand dollars. Furniture, ctc.
For packing-boxes, two thousand nine hundred and eighty-seven dol- P¤¤ki¤g-l¤&gt;=¤¤-
lars.
For miscellaneous items and expenses of special and select committees, Miscellaneousthirty thousand dollars. _
For stationery for members of the House of Representatives, inclnding $l=¤¤¤¤¤¤’·
six thousand dollars for stationery for the use of the committees and
officers of the House, torty-seven thousand six hundred and twenty-tive
dollars.
For postage-stamps for the Postmaster, one hundred dollars; for the P&lt;&gt;¤f¤g¤+¤¤¤¤¤r¤·
Clerk, seventy-tive dollars; for Sergeant-at-Arms, one hundred and
twenty-five dollars; and for the Doorkeeper, twenty-tive dollars; in all,
three hundred and twenty-tive dollars. -
PUBLIC PRINTING.
For compensation of the Public Printer, four thousand five hundred c15‘l;gh&quot; P&quot;“*°'·
dollars; for chief clerk, two thousand four hundred dollars; two clerks '&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 23.djvu/949</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>320435</id>
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      <text bytes="4856" sha1="f9kfi8i9vvh8syvgmii60ovodac1fpi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;INDEX. 92 ]_
Pao . r ·· _
Iluddick, Lindley, ae I Sailors, Pl&quot;`,
1·=v_Ym&lt;·¤f tv .- - ·-...»... .- .. . . 579pension to, increased for loss of arm ut
Rudnaell, A n¢I1-ew (ar Rudiaill), I shoulder joint ____ _ _ _ _  __  _  ,  431
Pppyrwrrg to    -.-- .. . ... 582 Sain! Ann'v Infanf Asylum, District of Colum-
.u nc . manue . bia,
payment to  . - .. .. . . .. 582 appropriation for the  126, 314
Rugg, Qeorge W., Saint Bernard, Alexander,
pension to .. . . . ... . -. . 629 pension to  . . . . _.,,... 26
Rugglea, Solomon K., Saint Cloud, Minn.,
pension to. . . ... .. 541 construction of dam across the Mississippi
Rule, Caleb, River at, authorized  ,-. .  154
payment to .. ..  . . 566 Saint Croalt River, Wis.,
Rule, John, appropriation for improvement of, In-low
payment to administrator of  .-.  .. . 566 Taylors Falls. ...,. . .., . ,. 143
Rule, Samuel A., · bridge across the, between Stillwater and
payment to .. 566 Taylor’s Falls, Minn .. . . 2509
Bunnions, George W, Saint Francis River, Ark.,
payment to .. . . ..  - ... .-.. 566 appropriation for improvement of . I4?
Runyon, Aaron A., ‘ ’ forsnag-boat for .. .  ,  142
payment to .. .. . .  566 Saint Lqnatius Minion School. Montana,
Ranald, appropriation for support of Indian pupils
declaration with, concerning the admeas- at .. . .,. . ..,..., ,, , _ ::81
urcment of vessels .. . . . . 789 Saint Jeromda Creek, Md.,
Russian oplcera and nzioctn, appropriation for improvement of harbor
to enable the President to bestow testimo- at entrance of  . . . .  .. ,. . . 1:18
nials upon, for aid to survivors of Saint John’a River, Fla.,
Jeannette Arctic Expedition  478 appropriation for improvement of clmmwl
But, George S., over the bar at mouth of  .. .. l-IU
payllwnt to .. . ... . . . . 579 for establishment of lights on .. . . . . 197
Rutherford, J. WC, for lighting and buoying the . .  . 487
• payment to  .  .  .-.. 566 Saint Joseph, Mich.,
Ryan, Hugh, appropri · tion forimprovementofhnrbornf. 136
pension to  . . .  .  . ... 642 Sain: Jowph, Mo.,
Ryan, Peter, appropriation for post-ofiice at. .  .  lil!}
payment to .. . . .. .. . . 566 for post office and c0urt·b0nse ut  . . ,. 461
Saint Louie. Mo.,
appropriation for salaries in omce of Assist-
S. _ aut Treasurer United States ut ...,. 175, 406
for salaries and expenses of assay-otiice
SiN1w Pau, Tn., at ..      . ... ..177,408
appropriation for improvement of  ---- 135 for paving in front of old custom-house
Banco River, Me., at . .  ... --.  .  448
appropriation for improvement of break- for laundry house, etc., for marine hoswater st mouth of  -...  . . 133 I pim} ut .- ...  .. .. .. 482
Sacramento River, Cal., deficiency appropriation for furniture,
apfpmsriation for improvement of ; proviso 143 carpets, ctc., for custom-house and
or redge-boat ,... ,,,,     144 post-olilce  -... . . IG
Sacramento, Cal. for completion of custom-house at- . , 16
erection of pnnlic building, etc., at, author- Saint Louis Wine Company,
ind ..., ,. .. . ... ---1 336 payment t0... .. .  . . . . 453
appropriation for purchase of site and com- _ Saint Lekés Protestant Epiocoyml Church, D. 41.,
S. I pletion of public building at. . . . 481   remission of cer1;_aiu taxes, interest, and I
e endian, penn tics 0 .. . ... . . 3
appro riation for the, of the Mississippi.- 85 1 Saint Mao-;/s Falls Canal,
of tgg Misgouyi _,,,__ __ __,_ ,_,, ,,,,,, -. S5 i Secretary of War to prescribe rules, etc.,
Sac and Pix: and Iowa Indian, for use of the .. . . . . 148
appropriation to enable theBooretary of In- Saint Margie River, _
tgzior to survey, sell, etc., lands of S‘app;»pr:a$on for range-lights mr  .  4:;*5
t ...,.. ..  .   353 'ut an , Gun., '
8a and Ion Indian of Iowa, appropriation for completion of (public
hcreaftorgolxavetheirperoapitspvtoportion lmildiug for quartermester an comosf moratgznppropristcd for nliillmont missary depot at  .  . . 508
of in -...  , ,...,. . .. 373 Sala and Mm•pI•y’u Canal, La.,
he and Fan: Indian of the Mivbuippiv appropriation to close outlet of river known
appropriation for permanent annuity to; as. . . .. .. . . .  141
mm ..,. ... . ...,. ..-. .., 86,52 Saline River, Ark,
Sao and Indian of the hioomsri, approprim ion for improvement of . . .. I4?.
· a propriation for interest, etc., to., ... 85,373 Saikrbafchre Meer, 8. C,. _
Sofft, l appropriation for improvement of  129
appropriation br, fnrputal service.-  156,386 * Snlnr, A.,
or miie buildings under control 0;% 4   payment to    . . 458
,a•m·y Department .. . 95 l Sam.
Myrna River, Kirk. j nnlmhng eargoeo of imported, etc  .  60
stampnlphiiation for inprovoment of  .  I4?! g Baumann, Richard, 5*7
ag p, _ payment to. . .  . .. . .. ,..-.¤
torm,¢le¤n•d  . . .  . .  ..-. 438 i Sampson, Saul S. (widow),
rules to be {allowed in navigation of .. 438 pension to .. . .  ... N I&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 32 Part 2.djvu/337</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>324376</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133387</id>
      <parentid>12811506</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:45:23Z</timestamp>
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      <minor />
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      <text bytes="3303" sha1="1opu2d15fhzntvbcp3qorml1s2jew2x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;· 1570 FIFTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS. Sess. H. CHS. 327-331. 1903.
January 23, IUI3. CHAP. 827.-An Act Granting an increase of pension to Luman Fuller.
mum' Nm M`] Be it enacted by the Senate and House 0 f R$esentativea 0 f the United
'¢,§{“uj,'},&quot;,',}'*c:,Q',;s,,d_ States of America in Cbngress assembled, at the Secretary of the
Interior be, and he is here y, authorized and directed to place on the
pension roll, subject to the Pprovisions and limitations `of the pension ~
aws, the name of Luman uller, late of Comgmy C, One hundred
and twenty-fourth Refgiment Ohio Volunteer In ntry, and pay him a
pension at the rate 0 thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is
now receiving. ~
Approved, January 23, 1903.
January 2s, 1903- CHAP. 328.-An Act Granting an increase of pension to Mathias Custers.
`VI , . . . , ,
lm te No ml Be it enacted by the Senate and House ofR?z·esentatzves of the United
},',,'}§Q*°'j,‘;,“f‘f?,,,,':·_,d_ States of America in Omgress assembled, That the Secretary of the
Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to place on the
pension roll, subject to the provisions and limitations of the ension
aws, the name of Mathias Custers, late of Company L, Thug' Regiment Iowa Volunteer Veteran Cavalry, and pay him a pension at e
rate of thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
Approved, January 23, 1903. V
;““‘“'Y ”·1°°3· CHAP. 829.-An Act Granting an increase of pension to Cyrus G. Norton. .
[mum, N0`296'] Be it enacted by the Senate and House of llrepresevitatives of the United
p.g°’$§g‘;§§,’-LZ§’gd_ States of Amerzea in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the
Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to place on the
pension roll, subject to the provisions and limitations of the pension ·
aws, the name of C rus G. orton, late of Company K, One hundred
and iirst Regiment Chic Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at
the rate of t irty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
Approved, January 23, 1903.
January 24, 1908. CHAP. 830.—An Act For the relief of Flora A. Darling.
[Pm7m' N0` ml Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Rfgzlvaewntativea of the United
f,'*_g{g,·},,_”°’“¤¤- States ofAme1~ica in Conga-esa assembled, t the Secretary of the
Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to pay to Mrs.
Flora A. Darling, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise
apprlopriated, the sum of five thousand six hundred and eighty-three
do rs, in full satisfaction of all claims growing out of her arrest, imprisonment, and the seizure of her property by military authority at
the-city of New Orleans, in January, cig teen hundred and sixty-four,
while on a ilag·of·truce boat under protection of a safe-conduct given
her by Major-General N. P. Banks, then commanding the Department
of the Gulf.
Approved, January 24, 1903.
January 24, 19N. CHAP. 831.-An Act For the relief of Hiram C. Walker. Q
mmm M M] Be it enacted   the Senate and House of Regzresentatilcresof the United
§;;*,*j,_§-Qf;*§,‘§‘B,e States of America in Congress , That the Secretary of War
ummm. be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to remove the charge of
absence without leave from the name of Hiram C. Walker, late first&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 35 Part 2.djvu/104</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>325849</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133391</id>
      <parentid>12808945</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:45:29Z</timestamp>
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      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa  →  Iowa</comment>
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      <text bytes="4117" sha1="bcwyurn4yeyz4d8z96e3gvtlw7ls22g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;SIXTIETH CONGRESS. Sess. I. Ch. 156. 1908. 1259
The name of Roswell L. Nason, late of Company H, Second Regi- 1z0swe111..x¤s¤n.
ment Minnesota Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at the rate
of twenty-four dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
The name of Andrew J. Black, late of Company l, Fourth Regi— A¤¤1re»»—J.n1¤¤1¤.
ment Ohio Volunteer Infantry, and pa him a pension at the rate of
thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
The name of John B. WVheeler, late of Company A, Seventeenth John B. Wheelen
Regiment Connecticut Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at the
rate of thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
The name of Carlos L. Buzzell, late of Company B, Sixth Re iment canes L.1anm11.
New Hampshire Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at the rate
of twenty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
The name of James Tenbrook, late of Company I, Eighth Regiment Jsmesrenbmek.
United States Colored Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at
the rate of thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
The name of John L. Bennett, late of Company E, Twenty-sixth J°h“ L‘B°““°°&quot;
Regiment Michigan Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at the
rate of thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receivin .
The name of Abraham H. Tompkins, late of Company K, One hun- abmnam n. romp
dred and sixty-eighth Regiment New York Volunteer Infantry, and k“‘*‘· ’
pay him a pension at the rate of thirty dollars per month in lieu of
that he is now receiving. ‘
The name of Josiah Dixon, late of Com ny E, Fortieth Regiment mma num.
New Jersey Volunteer Infantry, and pay hiabm a pension at the rate of
thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
The name of Missouri L. Herron, dependent ste mother of Jona- Pension,
than Herron, late of Company D, Twelfth Regiment Ihdiana Volunteer M‘”°“&quot; L' H°&quot;°“‘
Infangry, and pay her a pension at the rate of twelve dollars per
mont .'
The name of Joseph Farley, late of Company C, One hundred and Pensions increased.
sixty-tirst Regiment Ohio Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension J°&quot;°h F’&quot;1°y‘
at the rate of twenty-four dollars per month in lieu of that he is now _
receiving.
The nihme of Jerome King, late of Company F, Sixth Regiment imma xm;.
Iowa Volunteer Cavalry. and pay him a pension at the rate of thirty
dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
The name of Albert Falcon, late of Company C, Fifteenth Regiment Albert :··.n¢·¤¤.
Illinois Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at the rate of
twenty-four dollars per month in licuof that he is now receiving.
The name of Alexander Mattison, late of Company H, Twenty-fifth Alexander nam-
Regiment Ohio Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at the rate ’°&quot;‘
of twenty-four dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
The name of James M. Reed, late of Company F, Twenty-fifth James M- Reed.
Regiment Iowa Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at the rate
of thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving. _
The name of Francis S. Fletcher, late of Company E, Fourth Regi- *&quot;°“°“ S- “*&quot;°*‘°’·
ment Iowa Volunteer Infantry, and pa him a pension at the rate of
thirty dollars per month in lieu of thathe is now receivin .
The name of Titus W. Allen, late of Company G, Egorty-fourth Titus W- AIM-
Regiment Illinois Volunteer Infantry, and Company A, Seventy-
fourth Regiment Illinois Volunteer Infantry, and payhim a pension
at the rate of twenty-four dollars per month in lieu of that he is now
receivin .
The ngme of Milo Brewster, late of Company E, Seventh Regiment Mi1&lt;&gt;Brewsrer
Michigan Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at the rate of
thirty-six dollars Fper month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
The name of zra Taylor, late of Company G. One hundred and rm T.,,-im,
first Regiment Indiana I olunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at
the rate of thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 28.djvu/799</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>327306</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133379</id>
      <parentid>12813126</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:44:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: POBTER → PORTER</comment>
      <origin>15133379</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4475" sha1="6eoxrt4el4bg36f8e6xumwfoeisw0ff" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;770 FIFTY-THIRD CONGRESS. Sess. III. Ch. 177. 1895.
of document room, and Department messenger, at two thousand dollars
each; two special employees, at one thousand five hundred dollars
each; document lile clerk, one thousand four hundred dollars; assistant
document tile clerk, one thousand three hundred and fourteen dollars;
clerk to Doorkeeper, and janitor, at one thousand two hundred dollars
Messengers. each; nine messengers, including the messenger to the reporters’ gallery, at one thousand two hundred dollars each; nine messengers, at
one thousand dollars each; six laborers, at seven hundred and twenty
dollars each; two laborers in the water-closet, at seven hundred and
twenty dollars each; three laborers, including two in the cloak rooms,
at six hundred dollars each; female attendant in ladies’ retiring room,
f Elqiwrintendent or seven hundred and twenty dollars; superintendent of the folding room,
° &quot;’g&quot;’°&quot;&quot;°°°‘ two thousand dollars; three clerks in the folding room, one at one
thousand eight hundred dollars, and two at one thousand two hundred
dollars each; one foreman, one thousand five hundred dollars; one
&quot; ., messenger, one thousand two hundred dollars; one folder in the seal-
; , ing room, one thousand two hundred dollars; one page, five hundred
' Z dollars one laborer, four .hundred dollars; ten tblders, at nine hundred dollars each; five folders, at eight hundred and forty dollars
each; three folders during the session, at seventy dollars per month
each, one thousand four hundred and sixty-three dollars and twenty-
five cents; fifteen folders, at seven hundred and twenty dollars each;
one night watchman, nine hundred dollars; one driver, six hundred
dollars; fourteen messengers, on the soldiers’ roll, at one thousand
rms. two hundred dollars each; two chief pages, at nine hundred dollars
each; thirty-three pages, boys not under twelve years of age, during
the session, including two riding pages, one telephone page, and one
telegraph page, at two dollars and iiity cents per day each, seventeen
thousand four hundred and ninety dollars; two messengers during
the session, at seventy dollars per month each, nine hundred and_
I·•b&lt;¤•r¤. ow. seventy-five dollars and fifty cents; ten laborers during the session, at
sixty dollars per month each, four thousand one hundred and eighty
dollars and seventy cents; six laborers, known as cloak-room men, at
fifty dollars per month each; horse and buggy, for Department messenger, two hundred and fifty dollars; in all, one hundred and thirty-
one thousand three hundred and fifty-three dollars and forty-five cents.
1;¤:g¤·¤¤r· •¤·i¤*» Orrrcm or POSTMASTERJ For Postmaster, two thousand ive hun-
&quot;`‘ dred dollars; iirst assistant postmaster, two thousand dollars; ten
messengers, including messenger to superintend transportation of
mails, at one thousand two hundred dollars each; three messengers,
during the session, at eight hundred dollars each; four messengers, at
one hundred dollars per month each, during the session, two thousand
seven hundred and eighty-seven dollars and twelve cents; and one
laborer, at seven hundred and twenty dollars; in all, twenty-two thousand four hundred and seven dollars and twelve cents.
ri·»r¤e»»¤¤1w¤g¤¤¤. For hire of horses and mail wagons for carrying the mails, three
thousand seven hundred and seventy-tive dollars, or so much thereof
as may be necessary.
¥&lt;&lt;·i·¤¤‘¤i¤¤ &lt;l¤l&gt;¤¢··¤· OFFICIAL REPORTERS: For live official reporters of the proceedings
and debates of the House, at five thousand dollars each; assistant
official reporter, one thousand two hundred dollars; in all, twenty-six
thousand two hundred dollars.
saqogmpim-s m STENOGRAPHERS T0 COM'MI'1‘TEESt For two stenographers to com-
&quot;°'“‘“&quot;'*°*- mittees, at four thousand dollars each, eight thousand dollars.
··nm-i¤gn.mm.,¤·~ That wherever the words “during the session” occur in the foregoing
°&quot; “‘°““ ”“&quot;&quot;“&gt;'*‘· paragraphs they shall be construed to mean the two hundred and
twelve days beginning the second day of December, eighteen hundred
and ninety-five, and ending the thirtieth day of June, eighteen hundred
and ninety-six.
cmu mm, mm- Fon CLERK HmE,ME1mERs AND DELEGATES, HoUsE OF REPRE-
&quot;°&quot; ‘“‘D°‘°¥&quot;°°· smvrxrrvnsz To pay Members and Delegates the amount which they
certify they have paid or agreed to pay for clerk hire necessarily&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 27.djvu/815</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>327389</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133378</id>
      <parentid>12814569</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:44:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa, →  Iowa,</comment>
      <origin>15133378</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3045" sha1="5tdupr05agri7ra2bodeorvjm4axow5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;FIFTY-SECOND CONGRESS. Sess. I. CHS. 301-305. 1892. 791
CHAP. 301.-An act granting a pension to James Smith. July 27, 1892.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the ·{,=;Q_*gj”§*¤i°*&gt;·
Interior be, and he is hereby, directed to place on the pension roll of the `
United Statesthe name of James Smith, formerly orderly sergeant of
Company F, Sixth Regiment United States Infantry, in the Seminole
Indian war, at the rate of twenty dollars per month, subject to the
rules and regulations governing pensions.
Approved, July 27, 1892.
CHAP. 302.-An act granting a pension to Benjamin Churchill. July 27, 1892.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the gg;-Qggjexgfgggllb
Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to place on the ‘
pension roll, at the rate of thirty dollars per month, the name of Benjamin Churchill, late a private in captain E. Wheeler’s Company, New
York Militia, in the war of eighteen hundred and twelve, the said
soldier being now nearly one hundred years old. Said sum tobe in lieu
of the pension now drawn by him under certificate numbered twenty-
two thousand and nine.
Approved, July 27, 1892. °
CHAP. 303.-An act granting a pension to Julia Bodley, ·T¤ly 27, 1892.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United J l_
States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the p`Q,f§,£,‘{‘“°&quot;‘
Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to place on the
pension roll, subject to the provisions and limitations of the pension
laws, the name of Julia Bodley, widow of James C. Bodley, late major of
the Eighty-eighth Regiment Indiana Volunteer Infantry, at the rate
of twelve dollars per month.
Approved, July 27, 1892.
CHAP. 304.-An act granting a pension to Cecilia White. July 27, 1892.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United U _, _ W
States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the pf§,2§_‘},,_ 1‘&quot;°‘
Interior be, and is hereby, authorized to place the nanne of Cecilia
White, of Burlington, Iowa, on the pension roll, and pay her a pension
oftwelve dollars per month for her services as a nurse during the civil
war.
Approved, July 27, 1892.
CHAP. 305,-An act granting Ll pension to Charity W. Clark, mother of Edmond July 27, 1892.
M. Clark, formerly of Company M, Seventeenth Pennsylvania Cavalry. `—`““`°‘&quot;‘;
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the   W- Cmk-
Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and instructed to place upon the `
pension rolls of the United States the name of Charity W. Clark, mother
ol' the late Edmond M. Clark, of Company M. Seventeenth Regiment
Pennsylvania Cavalry, at the rate of twelve dollars per month.
Approved, July 27, 1892.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 08.djvu/346</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>336440</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132508</id>
      <parentid>7897769</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:47:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Added author and title links</comment>
      <origin>15132508</origin>
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      <text bytes="5901" sha1="sw1in3ns4fvc7i8rhd96iko44ja2bje" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Vincent Steenberg&quot; /&gt;{{rh|Campbell|342|Campbell}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Campbell, Archibald (1682-1761)&quot; /&gt;later years he rebuilt the castle at Inverary. He died suddenly on 15 April 1761. By his wife, the daughter of Mr. Whitfield, paymaster of the forces, he left no issue, and the title descended to his cousin John, son of John Campbell of Mamore, second son of [[Campbell, Archibald (d.1685) (DNB00)|Archibald, ninth earl of Argyll]] [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] His whole property in England was left to Mrs. Anne Williams or Shireburn, by whom he had a son, William Campbell, auditor of excise in Scotland, and a colonel in the army.

&lt;small&gt;[Coxe's Life of Walpole, containing several of his letters; Lockhart Papers; Culloden Papers; Macpherson's Original Papers; MSS. Add. 19797, 23251, ff. 46, 48, 50, 58, 22627, f. 23, 22628, ff. 47-52; Douglas's Peerage of Scotland, i. 114-5; Biog. Brit. (Kippis), iii. 208-9.]&lt;/small&gt;{{DNB TFH}}

&lt;section end=&quot;Campbell, Archibald (1682-1761)&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Campbell, Archibald (fl.1767)&quot; /&gt;'''CAMPBELL''', ARCHIBALD (''fl''. 1767), satirist, was a son of [[Campbell, Archibald (1691-1756) (DNB00)|Archibald Campbell (''d''. 1756)]] [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] His works prove that he was a classical scholar, and he states that he had 'all his lifetime dabbled in books' (''Lexiphanes'', Dedn., p. v); but he became purser of a man-of-war, and remained at sea, leading 'a wandering and unsettled life.' In 1745 [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|William Falconer]], author of the '[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]],' was serving on board the same ship with him, became his servant, and received some educational help from him ({{sc|Chalmers}}, ''English Poets'', xiv. 381). About 1760, being on a long voyage, Campbell read the 'Ramblers,' and staying shortly after at Pensacola wrote there his 'Lexiphanes' and 'Sale of Authors;' the works remained in manuscript for some two years, till he reached England. 'Lexiphanes, a Dialogue in imitation of Lucian,' with a subtitle, saying it was 'to correct as well as expose the affected style ... of our English Lexiphanes, the Rambler,' was issued anonymously in March 1767, and was attributed by Hawkins to Kenrick ({{sc|Boswell}}, ''Johnson'', ii. 55). The 'Sale of Authors' followed it in June of the same year. Campbell called Johnson 'the great corrupter of our taste and language,' and says, 'I have endeavour'd to ... hunt down this great unlick'd cub' (''Lexiphanes'', preface, p. xxxix). In the 'Sale of Authors' the 'sweetly plaintive Gray' was put up to auction, with Whitefield, Hervey, Sterne, Hoyle, &amp;c.

'Lexiphanes' itself found an imitator in 1770 in Colman, who used that signature to a philological squib (''Fugitive Pieces'', ii. 92-7); and a fourth edition of the real work, still anonymous, was issued at Dublin in 1774. After this there is no evidence of anything relating to this author. 'The History of the Man alter God's own Heart,' issued anonymously in 1761, generally attributed to [[Annet, Peter (DNB00)|Peter Annet]] [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], is asserted to have been written by Archibald Campbell (''Notes and Queries'', 1st series, xii. 204, 255), and this view has been adopted in the 1883 edition of Halkett and Laing's 'Dictionary of Anonymous and Pseudonymous Literature,' ii. 1160. If so, the 'Letter to the Rev. Dr. Samuel Chandler, from the Writer of the History of the Man after God's own Heart,' is also Campbell's.

&lt;small&gt;[Lexiphanes and Sale of Authors, Horace Walpole's copies, Grenville Coll., author's Prefaces; Walpole's Letters, Cunningham's ed. vi. 76 and 80 ''n''.; Boswell's Johnson, 1823 ed., ii. 55, iv. 359; Anderson's Life of Johnson, 1815 ed., p. 230 text and note; Chalmers's English Poets, xiv. 381; Notes and Queries, 1st ser. xii. 204, 255, 3rd ser. iii. 210, 357, xii. 332, 449; Halkett and Laing's Dict. of Anon. and Pseudon. Lit. ii. 1160, where p. 255 of Notes and Queries (supra) is by error put 205, and p. 1405.]&lt;/small&gt;{{DNB JH Humphreys}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Campbell, Archibald (fl.1767)&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Campbell, Archibald (1739-1791)&quot; /&gt;'''CAMPBELL''', {{sc|Sir}} ARCHIBALD (1739–1791), of Inverneil, general and governor of Jamaica and Madras, second son of James Campbell of Inverneil, commissioner of the Western Isles of Scotland, chamberlain of Argyllshire, and hereditary usher of the white rod for Scotland, was born at Inverneil on 21 Aug. 1739. He entered the army in 1757 as a captain in the Fraser Highlanders, when Simon Fraser, the only son of [[Fraser, Simon (1667?-1747) (DNB00)|Lord Lovat]] [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], raised that regiment for service in America by special license from the king on the recommendation of Mr. Pitt. With it he served throughout the campaign in North America, and was wounded at Wolfe's taking of Quebec in 1758. On the conclusion of the war in 1764 the Fraser Highlanders were disbanded, and Campbell was transferred to the 29th regiment, and afterwards promoted major and lieutenant-colonel in the 42nd Highlanders, with which he served in India until 1773, when he returned to Scotland, and he was elected M.P. for the Stirling burghs in 1774. In 1775 Simon Fraser again raised a regiment of highlanders for service in the American war of independence, and Campbell was selected by him as lieutenant-colonel of the 2nd battalion. On his arrival in America, however, the ship which carried him took him unfortunately into Boston harbour while that city was in the hands of the rebels, and he consequently remained a prisoner until the following year, when he was exchanged for Ethan Allen. On securing his exchange he was appointed a brigadier-general, and took command of an expedition against the state of Georgia. The expedition was entirely successful, and Campbell seized Savannah, which contained forty-five guns and a large quantity of stores, with a loss of only four killed and five&lt;section end=&quot;Campbell, Archibald (1739-1791)&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 11.djvu/42</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>338450</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133346</id>
      <parentid>7899295</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:41:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Added author and title links, header, typos</comment>
      <origin>15133346</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="5362" sha1="tsfw094hohql08kivtzimqer0q6v0v6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Magnus Manske&quot; /&gt;{{running header|Clennell|36|Clennell}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Clennell, Luke (1781-1840)&quot; /&gt;as a youth with his uncle, Thomas Clennell, a grocer and tanner of Morpeth, he continued to develope an early manifested taste for art until, upon the recommendation of a nobleman who saw one of his drawings, he was transferred from the counter to the care of Bewick, the Newcastle engraver [see {{sc|Bewick, Thomas}}]. This was in April 1797. With Bewick he remained seven years, during which time he copied on the block, and subsequently engraved, several of the designs of Robert Johnson [see {{sc|Johnson, Robert}}], which were used as tail-pieces for Bewick's 'Water Birds,' 1804. By the time his apprenticeship expired he had become an expert draughtsman and designer, with something of his master's love of, and feeling for, nature and natural history. His apprenticeship must have ended early in 1804, about which time he executed a number of cuts for the third edition of Solomon Hodgson's 'I live of Ancient and Modern Literature,' 1800. Probably the majority of the illustrations to this book, some of which bear his initials, were by him, the rest being by Thomas Bewick. He afterwards worked for Bewick on Wallis and Scholev's 'History of England,' but, finding that his old master received the greater portion of the money, he came to London in the autumn of 1804, after having opened direct communications with the publishers. In May 1806 he received the gold palette of the Society of Arts for 'an engraving on wood of a Battle.' Among other engraved work he was employed upon the 'Scripture Illustrated' of Craig [see {{sc|Craig, William Marshall}}], and Thurston's designs for Beattie's 'Minstrel,' 1807. Another volume of this period was {{DNB lkpl|Falconer, William (1732-1769)|Falconer's}} '[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]],' 1808, which contains a well-known picture of a ship in a gale of wind. In 1809 he took part in Ackermann's 'Religious Emblems,' his colleagues being Nesbit, lira 11st on, and Hole. The designs for this book were by Thurston. Clennell's work was unequal, his best cuts being the 'Call to Vigilance' and the 'Soul Encaged.'

After he settled in London he married a daughter of Charles Warren, the copper-plate engraver, a connection which introduced him to the society of Raimbach, Finden, and the little knot of talented men who emulated each other in producing those delicate book embellishments published by Sharpe, Du Rovery, and others, at the beginning of the century. After Ackermann's 'Emblems,' his next work of importance was a large block for the diploma of the Highland Society after a design by Benjamin West. For this, in 1809, he received the gold medal of the Society of Arts. His last work of any moment as a wood engraver was the series of cuts which illustrate Rogers's 'Pleasures of Memory, with Other Poems,' 1810, a volume which has a deserved reputation with collectors for the excellence of its rendering of Stothard's pen-and-ink sketches. Towards 1810 Clennell seems virtually to have relinquished wood-engraving for painting, in which direction he had probably for some time been preluding, since he had prepared many of the sketches for Scott's 'Border Antiquities,' and there is an engraving after one of his designs as far back as 1803. In the Kensington Museum there is, besides other sketches, a water-colour drawing called the 'Sawpit,' dated 1810 ; and the Art Library contains a number of lightly washed designs, afterwards engraved for a series of 'British Novelists,' published by Sherwood, Neely, &amp; Jones, which show considerable vigour and force of realisation. In 1812 he contributed to the Royal Academy a lively picture of 'Fox-hunters regaling,' which was twice engraved. Henceforth he continued to exhibit at the Academy, the British Institution, and the Exhibition of Painters in Water Colours. The 'Baggage Waggons in a Thunderstorm,' 1816, the 'Day after the Fair,' 1818, and the 'Arrival of the Mackerel-Boat,' are good specimens of his work. In fishing scenes and marine subjects he specially excelled.

His two most important pictures, however, were the 'Waterloo Charge,' and the 'Banquet of the Allied Sovereigns in the Guildhall.' The former, which is his masterpiece, gained one of the premiums awarded by the British Institution for finished oil-sketches of the British successes under Wellington. It is a most spirited composition, full of fire and furious movement, and was engraved in 1819 by W. Bromley. The latter was a commission from the Earl of Bridgewater. So much fatigue, vexation, and disappointment was experienced by the artist in assembling the materials for this picture that he became insane, and, with brief lucid intervals, continued so until his death. Under the pressure of this misfortune his wife's mind also gave way, and she died, leaving three children. Friends interested themselves for the father and young family. The 'Waterloo Charge' was engraved for their benefit, and they were also assisted by the Artists' Fund, to which institution Clennell had belonged. 

From 1817 until 9 Feb. 1840, when he died, Clennell never wholly recovered his reason. In his milder moments he amused himself by strange, half-articulate verses, and half-intelligible drawings, specimens of which, dated&lt;section end=&quot;Clennell, Luke (1781-1840)&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="5356" sha1="a8g8vdysy13d2aamv8p15p6g998eril" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Magnus Manske&quot; /&gt;{{running header|Clennell|36|Clennell}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Clennell, Luke (1781-1840)&quot; /&gt;as a youth with his uncle, Thomas Clennell, a grocer and tanner of Morpeth, he continued to develope an early manifested taste for art until, upon the recommendation of a nobleman who saw one of his drawings, he was transferred from the counter to the care of Bewick, the Newcastle engraver [see {{sc|Bewick, Thomas}}]. This was in April 1797. With Bewick he remained seven years, during which time he copied on the block, and subsequently engraved, several of the designs of Robert Johnson [see {{sc|Johnson, Robert}}], which were used as tail-pieces for Bewick's 'Water Birds,' 1804. By the time his apprenticeship expired he had become an expert draughtsman and designer, with something of his master's love of, and feeling for, nature and natural history. His apprenticeship must have ended early in 1804, about which time he executed a number of cuts for the third edition of Solomon Hodgson's 'I live of Ancient and Modern Literature,' 1800. Probably the majority of the illustrations to this book, some of which bear his initials, were by him, the rest being by Thomas Bewick. He afterwards worked for Bewick on Wallis and Scholev's 'History of England,' but, finding that his old master received the greater portion of the money, he came to London in the autumn of 1804, after having opened direct communications with the publishers. In May 1806 he received the gold palette of the Society of Arts for 'an engraving on wood of a Battle.' Among other engraved work he was employed upon the 'Scripture Illustrated' of Craig [see {{sc|Craig, William Marshall}}], and Thurston's designs for Beattie's 'Minstrel,' 1807. Another volume of this period was {{DNB lkpl|Falconer, William (1732-1769)|Falconer's}} '[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]],' 1808, which contains a well-known picture of a ship in a gale of wind. In 1809 he took part in Ackermann's 'Religious Emblems,' his colleagues being Nesbit, Branston, and Hole. The designs for this book were by Thurston. Clennell's work was unequal, his best cuts being the 'Call to Vigilance' and the 'Soul Encaged.'

After he settled in London he married a daughter of Charles Warren, the copper-plate engraver, a connection which introduced him to the society of Raimbach, Finden, and the little knot of talented men who emulated each other in producing those delicate book embellishments published by Sharpe, Du Rovery, and others, at the beginning of the century. After Ackermann's 'Emblems,' his next work of importance was a large block for the diploma of the Highland Society after a design by Benjamin West. For this, in 1809, he received the gold medal of the Society of Arts. His last work of any moment as a wood engraver was the series of cuts which illustrate Rogers's 'Pleasures of Memory, with Other Poems,' 1810, a volume which has a deserved reputation with collectors for the excellence of its rendering of Stothard's pen-and-ink sketches. Towards 1810 Clennell seems virtually to have relinquished wood-engraving for painting, in which direction he had probably for some time been preluding, since he had prepared many of the sketches for Scott's 'Border Antiquities,' and there is an engraving after one of his designs as far back as 1803. In the Kensington Museum there is, besides other sketches, a water-colour drawing called the 'Sawpit,' dated 1810; and the Art Library contains a number of lightly washed designs, afterwards engraved for a series of 'British Novelists,' published by Sherwood, Neely, &amp; Jones, which show considerable vigour and force of realisation. In 1812 he contributed to the Royal Academy a lively picture of 'Fox-hunters regaling,' which was twice engraved. Henceforth he continued to exhibit at the Academy, the British Institution, and the Exhibition of Painters in Water Colours. The 'Baggage Waggons in a Thunderstorm,' 1816, the 'Day after the Fair,' 1818, and the 'Arrival of the Mackerel-Boat,' are good specimens of his work. In fishing scenes and marine subjects he specially excelled.

His two most important pictures, however, were the 'Waterloo Charge,' and the 'Banquet of the Allied Sovereigns in the Guildhall.' The former, which is his masterpiece, gained one of the premiums awarded by the British Institution for finished oil-sketches of the British successes under Wellington. It is a most spirited composition, full of fire and furious movement, and was engraved in 1819 by W. Bromley. The latter was a commission from the Earl of Bridgewater. So much fatigue, vexation, and disappointment was experienced by the artist in assembling the materials for this picture that he became insane, and, with brief lucid intervals, continued so until his death. Under the pressure of this misfortune his wife's mind also gave way, and she died, leaving three children. Friends interested themselves for the father and young family. The 'Waterloo Charge' was engraved for their benefit, and they were also assisted by the Artists' Fund, to which institution Clennell had belonged.

From 1817 until 9 Feb. 1840, when he died, Clennell never wholly recovered his reason. In his milder moments he amused himself by strange, half-articulate verses, and half-intelligible drawings, specimens of which, dated&lt;section end=&quot;Clennell, Luke (1781-1840)&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 09.djvu/191</title>
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      <text bytes="5571" sha1="jlvl9gvz3mvmmqjcjtah84mbgcmwcgw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Charles Matthews&quot; /&gt;{{running header|Carse|185|Carson}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Carruthers, Robert&quot; /&gt;was also a contributor to the ‘North British Review,’ and wrote for the eighth edition of the ‘Encyclopædia Britannica’ a number of biographies, among them those of Queen Elizabeth, William Penn, Lord Jeffrey, and the Ettrick Shepherd. He wrote the memoir of {{DNB lkpl|Falconer, William (1732-1769)|Falconer}} prefixed to the ‘[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]’ (1858 and 1868), and of James Montgomery (1860) and Gray (1876) prefixed to editions of their poems. He delivered several series of lectures before the Edinburgh Philosophical Institution. In April 1871 he received the degree of LL.D. from the university of Edinburgh, and in the November of the same year he was entertained at a public banquet, when he was presented with a portrait and bust of himself.

Carruthers was the friend or correspondent of several of his eminent contemporaries. Rogers furnished him with some material for his edition of Pope, and Macaulay asked for and received from him on highland matters information which was duly acknowledged in the ‘History.’ When Thackeray visited Inverness to lecture on the Four Georges, the acquaintance which he made with Carruthers, who is said to have resembled him in face, ripened into considerable intimacy. Carruthers died at Inverness on 26 May 1878, busy to the last with the newspaper which he had edited for more than half a century. His fellow-townsmen honoured him with a public funeral.
{{smaller block|[Carruthers's writings; obituary notices in the Inverness Courier of 30 May and in the Scotsman of 28 May 1878.]}}{{DNB FE}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Carruthers, Robert&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Carse, Alexander&quot; /&gt;'''CARSE''', ALEXANDER (''fl''. 1812–1820), painter, was a native of Edinburgh, where he enjoyed a good reputation as a painter. About 1812 he came to London, and in the ensuing years exhibited several pictures at the Royal Academy and at the British Institution. His pictures chiefly represented scenes from Scottish domestic life, often of a humorous character. His colouring and drawing met with very favourable criticism. He resided for some years in Grenville Street, Somers Town, but seems about 1820 to have returned to Edinburgh, where he continued to paint for some years. He is sometimes described as ‘Old Carse,’ which seems to point to his being the father of William Carse [q. v.] The date of his death has not been ascertained. A picture by him has recently been presented to the Scottish National Gallery.
{{smaller block|[Graves's Dict. of Artists; Catalogues of the Royal Academy and the British Institution; Annals of the Fine Arts, i. 423, ii. 44; information from Mr. J. M. Gray.]}}{{DNB LC}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Carse, Alexander&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Carse, William&quot; /&gt;'''CARSE''', WILLIAM (''fl''. 1818–1845), painter, was a native of Edinburgh, and seems to have been the son of Alexander Carse [q. v.] In 1818 he was a student at the British Institution, and resided with Alexander Carse at Grenville Street, Somers Town. His first pictures were cattle pieces in the style of Paul Potter, but later he devoted himself to subject pictures, chiefly scenes from lowly Scottish life. In the years 1820–9 he exhibited pictures at the Royal Academy, the British Institution, and the Suffolk Street Exhibition. During the latter part of his residence in London he resided in Southampton Crescent, Euston Square. About 1830 he returned to Edinburgh, and exhibited pictures in the Royal Scottish Academy up to 1845, after which date he cannot be traced.
{{smaller block|[Graves's Dict. of Artists; Catalogues of the Royal Academy and the British Institution; Annals of the Fine Arts, iii. 598; information from Mr. J. M. Gray.]}}{{DNB LC}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Carse, William&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Carsewell, John&quot; /&gt;'''CARSEWELL''', JOHN (''fl''. 1560–1572), bishop of the Isles, was in his earlier years chaplain to the Earl of Argyll and rector of Kilmartin. When the assembly of the kirk, on 20 July 1560, appointed superintendents of the various districts of Scotland, Carsewell was appointed superintendent of Argyll and the Isles ({{sc|Knox}}, ''Works'', ii. 87; {{sc|Calderwood}}, ''History'', ii. 11). He was also dean of the Chapel Royal of Stirling ({{sc|Keith}}, ''History'', Appendix, p. 128). In his capacity of superintendent of Argyll he was appointed by the assembly, in 1567, to ‘take satisfaction’ from Argyll for separation from his wife, and for ‘other heinous offences’ ({{sc|Calderwood}}, ii. 397). In July 1569 he was rebuked by the assembly for accepting the bishopric of the Isles, and for attending a parliament ‘holden by the queen after the murther of the king’ (''ib''. ii. 491). He died some time before 20 Sept. 1572.
{{smaller block|[Keith's Scottish Bishops, 307–8; Calderwood's History of the Church of Scotland., vols. ii. and iii.]}}{{DNB TFH}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Carsewell, John&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Carson, Aglionby Ross&quot; /&gt;'''CARSON''', AGLIONBY ROSS (1780–1850), classical scholar and rector of the high school of Edinburgh, was born at Holywood, Dumfriesshire, in 1780. He was educated at Wallace Hall endowed school, in the parish of Closeburn, and at the university of Edinburgh, which he entered in 1797. In 1801 he was elected rector of the grammar school of Dumfries, and in 1806 a classical master of the high school of Edinburgh, of which he became rector in 1820. In 1826 he received the degree of LL.D. from the university of&lt;section end=&quot;Carson, Aglionby Ross&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="5579" sha1="fglxlqjzji76ia85ztl0ufw9vaisowt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Charles Matthews&quot; /&gt;{{running header|Carse|185|Carson}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Carruthers, Robert&quot; /&gt;was also a contributor to the ‘North British Review,’ and wrote for the eighth edition of the ‘Encyclopædia Britannica’ a number of biographies, among them those of Queen Elizabeth, William Penn, Lord Jeffrey, and the Ettrick Shepherd. He wrote the memoir of {{DNB lkpl|Falconer, William (1732-1769)|Falconer}} prefixed to the ‘[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]’ (1858 and 1868), and of James Montgomery (1860) and Gray (1876) prefixed to editions of their poems. He delivered several series of lectures before the Edinburgh Philosophical Institution. In April 1871 he received the degree of LL.D. from the university of Edinburgh, and in the November of the same year he was entertained at a public banquet, when he was presented with a portrait and bust of himself.

Carruthers was the friend or correspondent of several of his eminent contemporaries. Rogers furnished him with some material for his edition of Pope, and Macaulay asked for and received from him on highland matters information which was duly acknowledged in the ‘History.’ When Thackeray visited Inverness to lecture on the Four Georges, the acquaintance which he made with Carruthers, who is said to have resembled him in face, ripened into considerable intimacy. Carruthers died at Inverness on 26 May 1878, busy to the last with the newspaper which he had edited for more than half a century. His fellow-townsmen honoured him with a public funeral.
{{smaller block|[Carruthers's writings; obituary notices in the Inverness Courier of 30 May and in the Scotsman of 28 May 1878.]}}{{DNB FE}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Carruthers, Robert&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Carse, Alexander&quot; /&gt;'''CARSE''', ALEXANDER (''fl''. 1812–1820), painter, was a native of Edinburgh, where he enjoyed a good reputation as a painter. About 1812 he came to London, and in the ensuing years exhibited several pictures at the Royal Academy and at the British Institution. His pictures chiefly represented scenes from Scottish domestic life, often of a humorous character. His colouring and drawing met with very favourable criticism. He resided for some years in Grenville Street, Somers Town, but seems about 1820 to have returned to Edinburgh, where he continued to paint for some years. He is sometimes described as ‘Old Carse,’ which seems to point to his being the father of William Carse [q. v.] The date of his death has not been ascertained. A picture by him has recently been presented to the Scottish National Gallery.
{{smaller block|[Graves's Dict. of Artists; Catalogues of the Royal Academy and the British Institution; Annals of the Fine Arts, i. 423, ii. 44; information from Mr. J. M. Gray.]}}{{DNB LC}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Carse, Alexander&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Carse, William&quot; /&gt;'''CARSE''', WILLIAM (''fl''. 1818–1845), painter, was a native of Edinburgh, and seems to have been the son of Alexander Carse [q. v.] In 1818 he was a student at the British Institution, and resided with Alexander Carse at Grenville Street, Somers Town. His first pictures were cattle pieces in the style of Paul Potter, but later he devoted himself to subject pictures, chiefly scenes from lowly Scottish life. In the years 1820–9 he exhibited pictures at the Royal Academy, the British Institution, and the Suffolk Street Exhibition. During the latter part of his residence in London he resided in Southampton Crescent, Euston Square. About 1830 he returned to Edinburgh, and exhibited pictures in the Royal Scottish Academy up to 1845, after which date he cannot be traced.
{{smaller block|[Graves's Dict. of Artists; Catalogues of the Royal Academy and the British Institution; Annals of the Fine Arts, iii. 598; information from Mr. J. M. Gray.]}}{{DNB LC}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Carse, William&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Carsewell, John&quot; /&gt;'''CARSEWELL''', JOHN (''fl''. 1560–1572), bishop of the Isles, was in his earlier years chaplain to the Earl of Argyll and rector of Kilmartin. When the assembly of the kirk, on 20 July 1560, appointed superintendents of the various districts of Scotland, Carsewell was appointed superintendent of Argyll and the Isles ({{sc|Knox}}, ''Works'', ii. 87; {{sc|Calderwood}}, ''History'', ii. 11). He was also dean of the Chapel Royal of Stirling ({{sc|Keith}}, ''History'', Appendix, p. 128). In his capacity of superintendent of Argyll he was appointed by the assembly, in 1567, to ‘take satisfaction’ from Argyll for separation from his wife, and for ‘other heinous offences’ ({{sc|Calderwood}}, ii. 397). In July 1569 he was rebuked by the assembly for accepting the bishopric of the Isles, and for attending a parliament ‘holden by the queen after the murther of the king’ (''ib''. ii. 491). He died some time before 20 Sept. 1572.
{{smaller block|[Keith's Scottish Bishops, 307–8; Calderwood's History of the Church of Scotland., vols. ii. and iii.]}}{{DNB TFH}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Carsewell, John&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Carson, Aglionby Ross&quot; /&gt;'''CARSON''', AGLIONBY ROSS (1780–1850), classical scholar and rector of the high school of Edinburgh, was born at Holywood, Dumfriesshire, in 1780. He was educated at Wallace Hall endowed school, in the parish of Closeburn, and at the university of Edinburgh, which he entered in 1797. In 1801 he was elected rector of the grammar school of Dumfries, and in 1806 a classical master of the high school of Edinburgh, of which he became rector in 1820. In 1826 he received the degree of LL.D. from the university of&lt;section end=&quot;Carson, Aglionby Ross&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 10.djvu/437</title>
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      <text bytes="5677" sha1="nybmvxyx8ao4nwgp8iurl14ko7fzzqz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Billinghurst&quot; /&gt;{{RunningHeader|Clarke|429|Clarke}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Clarke, James&quot; /&gt;{{hyphenated word end|hibition|exhibition}} at the association was made in April 1801. For some time previously his health had been failing, and he died on 25 Sept. of that year at the age of sixty-three.
{{smaller block|[Journal of Brit. Archæol. Assoc, vol. xviii. (1862), Proceedings, pp. 367-8; Clarke's Suffolk Antiquary.]}}
{{DNB WW}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Clarke, James&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Clarke, James Fernandez&quot; /&gt;'''CLARKE''', JAMES FERNANDEZ (1812–1876) medical writer, was born at Olney, Buckinghamshire, in 1812. His father and grandfather were prosperous lace merchants. He was much influenced by the non-conformist associations of Olney, and when a schoolboy in London went regularly to hear Edward Irving preach. After one or two brief apprenticeships, in 1828 he was placed under C. Snitch, a general practitioner, in Brydges Street, Covent Garden. Here he managed to get the run of Cadell's library in the Strand, and picked up a large general acquaintance with literature and literary people. In October 1833 he entered as a student at Dermott's Medical School in Gerrard Street, Soho. For a time he acted as Dermott's amanuensis, and afterwards aided Ryan in the short-lived 'London Medical and Surgical Journal.' In 1834 a report by Clarke of a case of Liston's pleased the latter, and led to his introducing him to Wakley, editor of the 'Lancet,' who was then in want of help and engaged Clarke at once. He became a skilled clinical reporter at hospitals, and also was for many years the reporter of numerous medical societies, encountering in both capacities much opposition, but his good judgment kept him out of most of the broils in which the 'Lancet' was involved. For thirty years he was in the service of the 'Lancet,' but at the same time carried on a laborious practice in Gerrard Street, having become a member of the College of Surgeons in 1837. In 1852, 160 members of the medical profession presented him with an inkstand and a service of plate worth 200''l''. as a testimonial for his literary services to the profession.

Clarke was a very hard worker, a model of punctuality, rarely left town or took a holiday, and lived in the same house for nearly forty years. He had a great fund of anecdote. On ceasing to write for the 'Lancet,' after more than thirty years' service, he published his reminiscences in the 'Medical Times and Gazette.' These were brought out in 1874 as 'Autobiographical Recollections of the Medical Profession.' They give many valuable records of medical men and the state of society in his time, including also numerous anecdotes of literary men and public characters. He died on 6 July 1875
{{smaller block|[Medical Times and Gazette and Lancet, 17 July 1875; Clarke's Autobiographical Recollections, 1874; see also British Medical Journal, 1875, ii. 115, 149, in reference to Clarke's dismissal from the Lancet, 'caused by an act impossible to be passed over.']}}
{{DNB GTB}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Clarke, James Fernandez&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Clarke, James Stanier&quot; /&gt;[[Author:James Stanier Clarke|'''CLARKE,''' JAMES STANIER]] (1765?–1834), author, eldest son of the Rev. {{DNB lkpl|Clarke, Edward (1730-1786)|Edward Clarke}} (1730-1786) [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] and brother of the Rev. {{DNB lkpl|Clarke, Edward Daniel|Edward Daniel Clarke}} [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], was born at Minorca, where his father was at the time chaplain to the governor. Having taken holy orders, he was in 1790 appointed to the rectory of Preston in Sussex. He afterwards, February 1795, entered the royal navy as a chaplain; and served, 1796-9, on board the Impetueux in the Channel fleet, under the command of Captain {{DNB lkpl|Payne, John Willett|John Willett Payne}} [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], by whom he was introduced to the Prince of Wales. It was the end of his service afloat, for the prince appointed him his domestic chaplain and librarian, a post which he held for many years, during which time he devoted himself assiduously to literary pursuits. His connection with the navy, short as it was, gave a fixed direction to his labours. Already, in 1798, he had published a volume of 'Sermons preached in the Western Squadron during its services off Brest, on board H.M. ship Impetueux' (1798, 8vo; 2nd edit. 1801); and, in conjunction with Mr. J. McArthur, a purser in the navy and secretary to Lord Hood at Toulon, had started the 'Naval Chronicle,' a monthly magazine of naval history and biography, which ran for twenty years, and which, so far as it treats of contemporary events or characters, is of a very high authority. In 1803 he published the first volume, in 4to, of 'The Progress of Maritime Discovery,' a work which did not receive sufficient encouragement, and was not continued. He issued in 1805 'Naufragia, or Historical Memoirs of Shipwrecks' (3 vols. 12mo); and in 1809, in collaboration with Mr. McArthur, the 'Life of Lord Nelson' (2 vols. 4to; 2nd edit. 1840, 3 vols. 8vo). Two copies were printed on vellum and finely bound; one of these was burnt, and the other is now in the British Museum (see ''Notes and Queries'', 3rd ser. viii. 264). It is by this great work that he is most generally known—a work, great not only in size, but in conception, but which loses much of the value it should have had from the lax way in which it is written; official as well as private letters and documents having been garbled to suit the editor's ideas of elegance, and hearsay anecdotes mixed up indiscriminately with more authentic matter. Of this faulty execution Clarke must bear the blame, for it was {{hyphenated word start|un|unlikely}}&lt;section end=&quot;Clarke, James Stanier&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 10.djvu/438</title>
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      <text bytes="5648" sha1="i2cqxk0yvdajoxo56yzv9fzh1r7p759" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Billinghurst&quot; /&gt;{{RunningHeader|Clarke|430|Clarke}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Clarke, James Stanier&quot; /&gt;{{hyphenated word end|derstood|understood}} that while McArthur supplied the material, Clarke supplied the literary style. In 1816 he published a 'Life of King James II, from the Stuart MSS. in Carlton House' (2 vols. 4to). The work is valuable on account of its containing portions of the king's autobiography, the original of which is now lost. Otherwise it is a servile attempt to portray James II in heroic colours. It obtained for its author from the prince the title of historiographer to the king. Besides the works already named, he edited [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]] '[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]],' with life of the author and notes (1804, 8vo), which ran through several editions, and Lord Clarendon's 'Essays' (1815, 2 vols. 12mo).

In 1806 he took the degree of LL.B. at Cambridge, and in 1816 the further degree of LL.D. was conferred on him per lit reg. He was also a fellow of the Royal Society, was installed canon of Windsor, 19 May 1821; and was deputy clerk of the closet to the king. He died on 4 Oct. 1834.
{{smaller block|[Gent. Mag. (1835), new series, iii. 328; Le Neve's Fasti, ed. Hardy, iii. 414; Gardiner and Mullinger 6 Introd. to Engl. Hist. p. 366; Rankers Hist, of England, vi. app.]}}{{DNB JKL}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Clarke, James Stanier&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Clarke, Jeremiah&quot; /&gt;'''CLARKE''', JEREMIAH (1669?–1707), musical composer, is said to have been born in 1669 (though probably the date should be earlier), but nothing is known of his parentage or early history, save that he studied at the Chapel Royal under {{DNB lkpl|Blow, John|Dr. Blow}} [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] On leaving the chapel he was for a short time organist of Winchester College, but the dates of his stay there cannot now be ascertained, as no lists of the college organists have been preserved. In 1693 Blow resigned to him the posts of almoner and master of the choristers at St. Paul's, and on 6 June 1699 he was admitted to his year of probation as vicar choral, though he was not fully admitted until 3 Oct. 1705 ‘{{lang|la|post annum probationis completum}},’ no explanation appearing in the chapter records for the long interval which had elapsed. On 7 July 1700, Clarke and {{DNB lkpl|Croft, William|Croft}} [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] were sworn gentlemen extraordinary of the Chapel Royal, ‘and to succeed as organists according to merit, when any such place shal fall voyd.’ On 25 May 1704 another entry in the Cheque Book records that the two composers were sworn ‘joyntly into an organist's place, vacant by the death of Mr. Francis Pigott.’ Some time previous to these appointments Clarke began a connection with the theatre. He wrote music for D'Urfey's ‘Fond Husband’ (licensed 15 June 1676)—probably for the revival at the Haymarket, 20 June 1707; for Sedley's version of ‘Antony and Cleopatra’ (licensed 24 April 1677); ‘Titus Andronicus,’ altered by Ravenscroft (1687); Settle's ‘World in the Moon’ (1697, in collaboration with Daniel Purcell); D'Urfey's ‘Campaigners’ (1698); Peter Motteux's ‘Island Princess’ (1699, in collaboration with Daniel Purcell and Leveridge); D'Urfey's ‘The Bath, or the Western Lass’ (1701); Manning's ‘All for the Better’ (1732); the revival of Howard's ‘Committee’ (1706); and D'Urfey's ‘Wife for any Man,’ a play of which Clarke's songs are the only record, but which was produced between 1704 and 1707. Besides the above, Clarke wrote an ode on the union of the king and parliament, an ode in praise of the Barbadoes, a cantata (‘The Assumption’), and many single songs. He was the original composer of Dryden's ode ‘Alexander's Feast,’ which was produced at Stationers' Hall on 22 Nov. 1697. In 1700 he joined Blow, Piggott, Barrett, and Croft in producing a little volume of ‘Ayres for the Harpsichord or Spinett,’ in which he is styled ‘Organist of St. Paul's Cathedral and Composer of the Musick used in the Theatre Royal.’ According to a note in the ‘{{lang|la|Registrum Eleemosynariæ D. Pauli Londinensis}}’ (1827) he was also music-master to Queen Anne. In 1699 a prize of two hundred guineas was offered for a musical work, but Clarke declined to compete, giving as a reason that the judges were to be noblemen. The story of his end, as told by Hawkins and Burney, is somewhat romantic. They relate that he cherished a hopeless passion for a lady of high position, and, falling into a state of melancholy, resolved to kill himself. While riding near London he went into a field where there was a pond, and tossed up to decide whether he should drown or shoot himself. The coin fell with its edge imbedded in the clay, so Clarke returned to London, where, after a short time, he committed suicide by shooting himself in his house in St. Paul's Churchyard, on the site of the present chapterhouse. Unfortunately, the story of this romantic attachment is contradicted by a contemporary broadsheet which seems to have escaped the notice of his biographers. It is a large single sheet, entitled ‘A Sad and Dismal Account of the Sudden and Untimely Death of Mr. Jeremiah Clark, one of the Queen's Organists, who Shot himself in the Head with a Screw Pistol, at the Golden Cup in St. Paul's-Church-Yard, on Monday Morning last, for the supposed Love of a Young Woman, near Pater-noster-Row.’ The account states how Clarke, a bachelor with a salary of over 300''l''. a year, about nine o'clock ‘Monday morning last’ was visited by his father and some friends, ‘at which he seem'd&lt;section end=&quot;Clarke, Jeremiah&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 18.djvu/170</title>
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      <text bytes="5687" sha1="fz8pd1w2gfqzmopi79h333xhfxb0dkt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Billinghurst&quot; /&gt;{{RunningHeader|Falconer|164|Falconer}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, Thomas (1805-1882)&quot; /&gt;{{hyphenated word end|land|England}} in December 1842. In 1850 he was appointed by the governor-general and the council of Canada arbitrator on behalf of that province for the purpose of determining the boundaries between Canada and New Brunswick. On 29 July 1851 he was nominated colonial secretary of Western Australia, but resigning this appointment, he was appointed by Lord-chancellor Truro judge of the county courts of Glamorganshire and Breconshire and of the district of Rhayader on 22 Dec. 1851. After sitting on the bench for thirty years he retired in December 1881, and died at Bath on 28 Aug. 1882, in the seventy-eighth year of his age. Falconer was a laborious worker, a staunch liberal, and an energetic opponent of abuses. He was a member of several learned societies, and was a traveller of much experience. He contributed some articles to the ‘Westminster Review’ and the ‘Colonial Magazine,’ was the author of several books, and of a very large number of pamphlets.

The following is a list of his more important works:
# ‘The History, Opinions, and Present Legal Position of the English Presbyterians,’ published under the direction of the English Presbyterian Association (anon.), London, 1834, 8vo. Some passages of this work were written by other hands.
# ‘Cases of Controverted Elections, determined in Committees of the House of Commons, in the Second Parliament of the Reign of Queen Victoria,’ by Thomas Falconer and Edward H. Fitzherbert, London, 1839, 8vo.
# ‘On the Discovery of the Mississippi, and on the South-Western Oregon and North-Western Boundary of the United States, with a translation from the original manuscript of Memoirs, &amp;c., relating to the discovery of the Mississippi,’ by Robert Cavelier de la Salle and the Chevalier Henry de Tonty, London, 1844, 12mo.
# ‘The Oregon Question,’ London, 1845, 8vo; another edition, New York, 1845; second edition, London, 1845, 8vo.
# ‘On Probate Courts,’ London, 1850, 8vo.
# ‘On Surnames and the Rules of Law affecting their Change,’ Cardiff, 1862, 12mo, privately printed; second edition, with additions, London, 1862, 8vo.
# ‘Supplement to an Essay on Surnames, and the Rules of Law affecting their Change, with Comments on the Speeches delivered in the House of Commons by Sir G. Grey, Bart., and the Solicitor-General,’ London, 1863, 8vo.
# ‘List of County Court Judges;’ ‘Note on the Abolition of certain Franchise Gaols,’ London, 1865, 8vo, privately printed.
# ‘On County Courts, Local Courts of Record, and on the Changes proposed to be made in such Courts in the Second Report of the Judicature Commissioners,’ London, 1873, 8vo.

{{smaller block|[Falconer's List of County Court Judges, p. 8; Falconer's Bibliography of the Writings of the Falconer Family, pp. 20–30; Debrett's House of Commons and the Judicial Bench, 1881, p. 391; Wilkins's History of Merthyr Tydfil (1867), pp. 353–7; Law Times, lxxiii. 315–16; Merthyr Express, 2 Sept. 1882, p. 6; Illustrated London News, 16 Sept. 1882, where a portrait of Falconer will be found; Lincoln's Inn Registers; Brit. Mus. Cat.]}}{{DNB GFRB}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, Thomas (1805-1882)&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, William (1732-1769)&quot; /&gt;[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|'''FALCONER''', WILLIAM]] (1732–1769), poet, was born 11 Feb. 1732 ({{sc|Carruthers}}). His father was a poor barber in Edinburgh. A brother and sister were deaf and dumb; the sister was living in the Royal Infirmary in Edinburgh in 1801. Falconer appears to have had an early taste for literature, which was checked by a ‘freezing blast of adversity’ (see description of ‘Arion’ in Shipwreck, canto 1). He joined a merchant ship at Leith. He was afterwards servant, according to Currie (Burns, 1801, ii. 283), to {{DNB lkpl|Campbell, Archibald (fl.1767)|Archibald Campbell}} (''fl''. 1767) [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], then purser on a man-of-war, who discovered and encouraged his literary tastes. He became second mate to a ship in the Levant trade, which was wrecked on a voyage from Alexandria to Venice, when only three of the crew were saved. In 1751 he published a poem on the death of Frederick, prince of Wales—which is about as good as the subject requires. He contributed a few poems to the ‘Gentleman's Magazine,’ and Clarke guesses, on very slight grounds, that he wrote the popular song ‘Cease, rude Boreas!’ generally attributed to {{DNB lkpl|Stevens, George Alexander|George Alexander Stevens}} [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] In 1762 he published his chief poem, the ‘[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]],’ founded on his own experience and dedicated to the Duke of York, then rear-admiral. The duke advised him to enter the royal navy, where there would be opportunities for patronage. He was rated as a midshipman on Sir E. Hawke's ship the Royal George. When the duke sailed with Sir Charles Hardy in November 1762, Falconer celebrated the auspicious event in an ode, according to his friend Hunter, ‘composed in a small space between the cable tiers and the ship's side.’ The duke is elaborately compared to ‘Alcmena's warlike son,’ tearing himself from pleasure to seek virtue. The Royal George was paid off on the peace of 1763, and Falconer became purser of the Glory frigate. He soon afterwards married Miss Hicks, daughter of the surgeon of Sheerness yard. The Glory was laid up in ordinary at Chatham, and Commissioner Hanway, brother of Jonas, had the captain's cabin fitted up as a study for the literary purser. Here, in 1764, he wrote the&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, William (1732-1769)&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 18.djvu/171</title>
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      <text bytes="5764" sha1="lsle6q6m898arqt9mrrjqf82ksl26u9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Charles Matthews&quot; /&gt;{{RunningHeader|Falconer|165|Falconer}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, William (1732-1769)&quot; /&gt;‘Demagogue,’ a political satire, attacking Wilkes, Churchill, and Lord Chatham, and showing much loyalty and some power of vituperation. In 1767 he was appointed purser to the Swiftsure. In 1769 he published ‘The Universal Marine Dictionary,’ a book well spoken of, in which ‘retreat’ is described as a French manœuvre, ‘not properly a term of the British marine.’ There were later editions in 1771, 1784, 1815, and 1830. By this time Falconer is said to have been living in poverty in London, though the dates of his appointments seem to imply that he cannot have been long unemployed. Chalmers contradicts upon authority Clarke's statement that he had ‘a small pittance for writing in the “Critical Review.”’ Hamilton, the proprietor of the Review, received him hospitably, but did not employ him as a writer. In 1768 John Murray, the first publisher of the name, was starting in business by the purchase of Sandby's bookselling shop opposite St. Dunstan's Church. He offered a partnership in his enterprise to Falconer in a letter dated 16 Oct. 1768 (in {{sc|Nichols}}, ''Lit. Anecd''. iii. 729). The offer seems to prove that Falconer was favourably known to publishers. He declined it, apparently in consequence of an offer of the pursership of the Aurora frigate, which was about to take Messrs. Vansittart, Scrafton, and Ford to India as supervisors of the company's affairs. Falconer was promised the secretaryship. He sailed in the Aurora 20 Sept. 1769. After touching at the Cape the ship was lost. Clarke mentions but disbelieves a report that she was burnt by an accident caused by the supervisors' passion for ‘hot suppers.’ The à priori probability of such a catastrophe is small, he thinks, and is certainly not sufficient to command assent in the absence of all direct testimony. Falconer's widow died 20 March 1796, and was buried at Weston, near Bath (''Notes and Queries'', 1st ser. xi. 322). Cadell, the proprietor of the ‘Marine Dictionary,’ supplied her liberally, even after the ‘expiration of the usual period of copyright.’

A third edition of the ‘[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]’ was prepared by Falconer just before his departure. It contained many alterations, which appear from the preface to have been his own, though Clarke, who thinks them injurious, attributes them to Mallet, who died in 1765. It reached an eleventh edition in 1802, and has since appeared separately and in many collections. Falconer's ‘Shipwreck’ resembles most of the didactic poems of the time, and is marked by the conventionality common to them all. But it deserves a rather exceptional position from the obvious fidelity with which he has painted from nature; and though his use of technical nautical terms is pushed even to ostentation, the effect of using the language of real life is often excellent, and is in marked contrast to the commonplaces of classical imitation which make other passages vapid and uninteresting. In this respect the poem made some mark, and Falconer had certainly considerable powers of fluent versification.

Clarke describes Falconer as five feet seven inches in height, slight in frame, weather-beaten, and pock-marked. His manners were ‘blunt, awkward, and forbidding;’ he talked rapidly and incisively; he was cheerful, kindly, and a good comrade, and seems to have been a thorough seaman, with all the characteristics of his profession. His education had been confined to English and a little arithmetic; but he understood French, Spanish, Italian, and ‘even German.’

{{smaller block|[Lives prefixed to editions of ‘Shipwreck:’ anonymous in 1803; by {{DNB lkpl|Clarke, James Stanier|James Stanier Clarke}} [q. v.] in 1804; by Alexander Chalmers in ‘English Poets,’ vol. xiv., 1810; by R. Carruthers in 1858; and life in David Irving's ‘Lives of Scotish [sic] Authors,’ 1801. Clarke had information from Falconer's friend, Governor Hunter.]}}
{{DNB LS}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, William (1732-1769)&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, William (1744-1824)&quot; /&gt;[[author:William Falconer (1744-1824)|'''FALCONER''', WILLIAM]], M.D. (1744–1824), miscellaneous writer, was born at Chester on 23 Feb. 1744, the younger of two surviving sons of William Falconer of the Inner Temple, recorder of Chester, by marriage with his second cousin, Elizabeth, daughter of Randle Wilbraham of Townsend, near Nantwich, Cheshire. He studied medicine at Edinburgh, where he took the degree of M.D. in 1766 (Dissertatio Medica Inauguralis, ‘De Nephritide Vera,’ 8vo, Edinburgh, 1766). From Edinburgh he went to Leyden, where he attended the lectures of Gaubius and Albinus, proceeding M.D. there on 28 May 1767 (Index of Leyden Students, Index Soc. p. 34). He had been previously admitted an extra-licentiate of the College of Physicians on 12 March 1767. In the same year he was appointed physician to the Chester Infirmary. After attaining to good practice in Chester, Falconer, at the suggestion of Dr. {{DNB lkpl|Fothergill, John (1712-1780)|John Fothergill}} [q. v.], removed to Bath in January 1770, where he was equally successful. On 18 March 1773 he became F.R.S. On 12 May 1784 he was elected physician to the Bath General Hospital, an appointment which he retained until 10 Feb. 1819. He died at his house in the Circus, Bath, on 31 Aug. 1824, and was buried at Weston, near that city. His wife, Henrietta, daughter of Thomas Edmunds of Worsbrough Hall, Yorkshire, had died on 10 Sept. 1803. He left a son, {{DNB lkpl|Falconer, Thomas (1772-1839)|Thomas Falconer}}, M.D. (1772–1839) [q. v.], who is separately&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, William (1744-1824)&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 29.djvu/57</title>
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      <text bytes="5842" sha1="damjcrp7pjj431yhf9hleyj24qajq4b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Billinghurst&quot; /&gt;{{RunningHeader|Irvine|51|Irving}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Irvine, William (1741-1804)&quot; /&gt;appointed agent for the state of Pennsylvania to examine the public lands, and had the administration of the act directing the distribution of the donation-lands promised to the soldiers of the revolution. He suggested the purchase of the piece of land known as ‘The Triangle,’ to give Pennsylvania an outlet on Lake Erie. He was a member of the continental congress of 1786, and was one of the assessors for settling the accounts of the union with individual states. He commanded the Pennsylvanian state militia against the whisky insurgents in 1794; served as a representative in the third congress from 2 Dec. 1793 to 3 March 1795; subsequently he removed to Philadelphia, and in 1801 was made superintendent of military stores there. He was president of the state society of Cincinnati at the time of his death, which took place at Philadelphia 29 July 1804. Two of Irvine's brothers were in the military service of the revolution, Andrew, a captain of infantry, and Matthew, a surgeon; and he left several sons serving as officers in the United States army.

{{smaller block|Appleton's Cyclop. American Biography, vol. iii. The statement in Appleton that Irvine ‘graduated’ at Dublin is doubtful, as the name does not appear in the Dublin Catalogue of Graduates.]}}{{DNB HMC}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Irvine, William (1741-1804)&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Irvine, William (1776-1811)&quot; /&gt;'''IRVINE''', WILLIAM (1776–1811), physician, son of {{DNB lkpl|Irvine, William (1743–1787)|William Irvine}} (1743–1787) [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], professor of chemistry at Glasgow, was born there in 1776. He studied medicine in the university of Edinburgh, where he took the degree of M.D. 25 June 1798. His thesis, ‘De Epispasticis,’ was based upon an unpublished essay of his father's on nervous diseases (''Preface to Chemical Essays'', 1805). He became a licentiate of the College of Physicians of London 25 June 1806, and his professional life was spent in the medical service of the army as physician to the forces. In 1805 he published his father's ‘Essays, chiefly on Chemical Subjects.’ In 1808 he was stationed in Sicily, and in 1810 his most important work appeared, ‘Some Observations upon Diseases, chiefly as they occur in Sicily.’ This book is based upon observations on malarial fever and dysentery made in the general army hospital at Messina, and contains several acute remarks, such as that abscess of the liver is associated with dysentery, that it may burst through the diaphragm into the lung, and the patient nevertheless recover. Shingles was then confused with erysipelas, but he notes accurately a difference in the results of treatment which is due to the definite duration of the former disease. He had carefully compared his own observations with those of {{DNB lkpl|Cleghorn, George|George Cleghorn}} [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] and of {{DNB lkpl|Currie, James|James Currie}} [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] on similar fevers, and had studied minutely the observations of Hippocrates on diseases of the Mediterranean region. He died of fever at Malta, 23 May 1811. After his death were published in 1813 his ‘Letters on Sicily.’

{{smaller block|[Works; Munk's Coll. of Phys. iii. 37.]}}{{DNB NM}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Irvine, William (1776-1811)&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Irving, David&quot; /&gt;[[Author:David Irving (1778-1860)|'''IRVING''', DAVID]], LL.D. (1778–1860), biographer and librarian, fourth and youngest son of Janetus Irving of Langholm, Dumfriesshire, by Helen, daughter of Simon Little, was born at Langholm on 5 Dec. 1778. After a sound preliminary education at Langholm, David entered Edinburgh University in 1796, and in 1801 graduated M.A. While a student he was a successful private tutor, and enjoyed the friendship of the veteran critic, Dr. Anderson, to whom in 1799 he ‘gratefully inscribed’ his ‘Life of Robert Fergusson, with a Critique on his Works.’ This puerile and imperfect performance was followed by similar biographies of {{DNB lkpl|Falconer, William (1732-1769)|William Falconer}} of the ‘[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]],’ and Russell the historian of modern Europe, and the three sketches were republished together in 1800, with a dedication to Andrew Dalzel, the Edinburgh professor of Greek. In 1801 appeared Irving's ‘Elements of English Composition,’ which has been a very popular text-book.

Abandoning his original intention of becoming a clergyman, Irving for a time studied law, but at length settled to literary pursuits. In 1804 he published in two volumes ‘The Lives of the Scotish Poets; with Preliminary Dissertations on the Literary History of Scotland and the Early Scotish Drama.’ This evinced both learning and critical capacity, and it was followed in 1805 by the ‘Life of George Buchanan,’ which amply demonstrated Irving's wide and minute scholarship, exceptional faculty for research, and literary dexterity. Revised and enlarged, the work reappeared in 1817 as ‘Memoirs of the Life and Writings of George Buchanan.’ In 1808 the university of Aberdeen conferred on Irving the honorary degree of LL.D., and in the same year he was candidate for the chair of classics at Belfast, but withdrew before the election. In 1810 he married the daughter of Dr. {{DNB lkpl|Anderson, Robert (1750–1830)|Robert Anderson}} (1750–1830) [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], who died in 1812 after the birth of a son. In 1813 he printed a touching ‘Memorial of Anne Margaret Anderson,’ for private circulation. Up to 1820 Irving devoted himself to literary work, and to the interests of a few university students who boarded with him. His superintendence of their studies led to his printing in 1815 ‘Observations on the Study of the Civil Law,’ which was reprinted in 1820 and&lt;section end=&quot;Irving, David&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Portal:P. J. Kennedy &amp; Sons</title>
    <ns>100</ns>
    <id>346702</id>
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 | title     = P.J. Kennedy &amp; Sons
 | class     = Z
 | subclass1 = E
 | subclass2 = 
 | reviewed  = yes
 | notes     = Publisher,New York, United States
}}

==Cited as copyright owner for ==
* [[Softly and Still Night Comes Stealing]] (1913) Hymn by [[Author:I. Willams|I. Willams]] (lyrics)/ Adapted from Rev F.L. (music){{small scan link|The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu}}{{x-smaller|[[Page:The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu/376|page 376]]}}
* [[With Grateful Hearts]] (1913) Hymn{{small scan link|The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu}}{{x-smaller|[[Page:The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu/379|page 379]]}}
* [[Holy Patron! Thee Saluting]] (1918) Hymn by [[Author:P. J. Nicholas|Rev. P. J. Nicholas]]{{small scan link|The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu}}{{x-smaller|[[Page:The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu/380|page 380]]}}
* [[Pray for the Dead]] (1913)Hymn by [[Author:M. B. Marr|M. B. Marr]], Sentinel of the B. S. (lyrics)/ [[Author:I. Müller]](music){{small scan link|The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu}}{{x-smaller|[[Page:The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu/362|page 362]]}}
* [[Hail, Virgin, Dearest Mary]] (1913) Hymn by Rev L.L.{{small scan link|The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu}}{{x-smaller|[[Page:The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu/374|page 374]]}}
* [[What Shall I Render Unto Thee, O Lord]] (1913) Hymn by [[Author:H. Van Rensselaer|Rev. H. Van Rensselaer]],[[Author:S.J.|S. J.]] (lyrics)/[[Author:Carl Hauser|Carl Hauser]](music){{small scan link|The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu}}{{x-smaller|[[Page:The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu/372|page 372]]}}
* [[Come, O Divine Messiah]] (1913) Hymn adapted from Cabrisseau{{small scan link|The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu}}{{x-smaller|[[Page:The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu/356|page 356]]}}
* [[Adeste Fideles]] (1913) Music arr.{{small scan link|The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu}}{{x-smaller|[[Page:The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu/357|page 357]]}}

[[Category:Publishing companies]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Science vol. 5.djvu/149</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>353612</id>
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      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., removed: � (5)</comment>
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      <text bytes="6425" sha1="gfez2xkckuc0f7dyx9a146ndzmx1vwy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ZSBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;ia Rlcliet's contrlbution towards the 
ling Ihe new phenomenoD nhfcb is just 
atrt^gllDg for recogniition, »niJ which haa been 
bUherto T&amp;riouslf designated as ' Ihuughl-tritiiafer- 
ence,' * mind 'reading,' aud 'telepathy.' 'Thought- 
Innsference,' ll strikes us, l« the worst of these 
tumes, and 'telepathy' the beat; but, as it Is deslr- 
■ble that a pbenomenou should not be too rigidlf 
JMBied before It is known what the plienomenoii Is, 
we shall make trial for the present of the new term, 
'mental suggesUon.' 

Rtchet sajs very happily that the courage of the 
iMlentlBe mao couciaU not only In making eiperl- 
:tBetit« dangerous to life upon cholera, rabies, and Ihe 
~ inefacUou of gates, but also in exposing his repu- 
tetion to blemish by advocating a theory which Is 
(Hterally discredited. Rlcbet has taken his courage 
'}b his hand, and has published an article In whicti 
16 claims to have established a strong probability iu 
ital suggestion. We venture to believe 
It the careful reader will cume to the conclusion 
tc offer such unsatisfactory experiments, so in- 
leqiialely treated, was a greater strain upon his 
Uian the novelty of what he attempts to 
The Society for psychical research has al- 
ly established a strong presumption Id favor of 
ital action at a distance. Bichet's experiments 
not to he compared with lliose of the society, 
«r In the care with which th:ywere performed 
the accuracy with which they are &lt;Ieacril&gt;ed; and 
unfamiliarity with the theory of probabilities 
senders bis numerical deductions, except the most 
Avlons oaes, misleading and useless. 

The experiments are mainly of four kinds, — guess- 
le suit of a card drawn at hazard from a full 
gueasiiig a photogcaph drawn at hazard from a 
of six, Rnding a watch hidden under one of several 
ige-trees by means of the vibrations of a slick, 
and spelling out names by means of table-rappings- 
There is a great deal that is interesting and sugges- 
tive in these experiments, and It Is a pity that they 
are not mure convincing. It wilt hardly he believed 
that in guessing cards the author does not stale 
whether llie two persona engaged in the experiment 
are in contact ornot. Such rcmariiable things are 
done nowadays in any parlor by muscle-reading. 
that DO esi&gt;erlment in which there ia contact is of the 
■lightest weight in establishing mental suggestion. 
Certain precautions, the imibor aays, are Indlbpen- 
cable, — the cards should beafullpack; the one drawn 
&gt;uld be returned after each trial; the person who 
Bl the card should abstain from every word, 
every indicfttlon, however imperceptible it may 
but he omits to say whether he is hand in hand 
.h Ihe person who guesses or not. Doubtless he is 
:; but an experiment in which so essential a cir- 
as this ia left to be inferred by Ihe reader 
ind of experiment that carries conviction 
rith ft. The conditions under which the photo- 
guessed remain equally unde!cribed; but 
reinnrk. &quot; It is necessary to eliminate every sign, 
ither in the direction of the eyes or in the ex- 
by which an indication can bo given,&quot; 

makes it plain that the simple precaution of putting 
the performers in such a position that It should be 
impossible to give any indication by the expressioD 
or the direction of the eyes, was not attended to. We 
pass over the experiments in finding a watch hidden 
under oraiige&lt;treeii, for the reason, that. In order to 
attribute any weight to them, it would be necessary 
to know, among other things, where the person 
stands who has hidden the watch, and nlietlier the 
one who finds U is blindfolded or not. That the 
experiments were performed in a garden In the en- 
vlroiis of Paris, that the orange-trees were cultivated 
in boxes, and thai they stood in two rows, are the 
only details that are given. 

The last series of experiments was made by BIcbet 
and live of his friends, — friends from infancy, intel- 
ligent men, well-Instructed, and not at all mystical, — 
two of whom are mediums. Three of these men sit 
atone table, — the rapplng-table, — and two, A and B, 
at another. Some one thinks of a name. A moves a 
pencil along an alphabet which ia on the table io 
front of him; when he reaches a certain letter, the 
other table, by rapping, ringa a bell, and U write* 
down the letter indicated. In this way something 
like the tiatne thought of la written down, — Jeanr 
for Jfard, Foqdem for Esther, Dierooreg for Cheuv- 
reux, and, the only very good one, Cheval for Che- 
vaion. The person who bas the name in his mind 
n'ett ni ii la table nf H Calphabet; but, to such a 
degree doca Mr. Kichet'a talent for Inconiplete de- 
scription pursue bini, it ia not said thai he Is stand- 
ing where be cannot see the alpliabel. If that is the 
case, the experiment Is n very extraordinary one, 
totally different from simply divining what another 
person has in his mind. The medium, who sits 
laughing, talking, and singing with his friends, Is re- 
quired to give bis table a vigorous shaking at the 
instant that two persons near him, who are think- 
ing of the letters of the alphabet, happen to think of 
the some letter. Such magic as this throws even the 
ghosts of the English society Into the shade; and the 
observer will need to pile Pelion upon Oasa by way 
of proof, before he can hope to gain credence for II. 

Admitting that Bichet's experiments were per- 
formed with a rigor with which they are not de- 
scribed, hia estimation of the iniprobahllily of their 
results arising by chance falls far short of llie truth. 
He Fays, after combining the results of all his ex- 
periments, — those made with medinms, with 'sensi- 
tives,' and with the non-hypnotlzable, — that the 
probabiilly in favor of mental suggestion may bo 
represented by 5- This number is the ratio of 
the difference between the actual number and the 
probable number of successes to the whole number 
of trials. But a comparison of this sort affords no 
measure of the iniprohabiUty of the observed facts 
being the result of chance. It is not the deviation 
from an average, but the probability that a given 
deviation should arise, that givrs the value of the 
evidence in favor of Iheoperalion of a cause. Bicbet 
does not aeem to know that there is a maibematicoi 
formula by which this probability Is determined. 
For Instance: In three series of experiments In guess-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gfez2xkckuc0f7dyx9a146ndzmx1vwy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133291</id>
      <parentid>15133286</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:34:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>more scannos</comment>
      <origin>15133291</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6440" sha1="6lvuhjrduge81iydi0ozkj42tm77v7u" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ZSBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;suggestion is Richet's contribution towards the task of naming new phenomenoD nhfcb is just 
atrt^gllDg for recogniition, »niJ which haa been 
bUherto T&amp;riouslf designated as ' Ihuughl-tritiiafer- 
ence,' * mind 'reading,' aud 'telepathy.' 'Thought- 
Innsference,' ll strikes us, l« the worst of these 
tumes, and 'telepathy' the beat; but, as it Is deslr- 
■ble that a pbenomenou should not be too rigidlf 
JMBied before It is known what the plienomenoii Is, 
we shall make trial for the present of the new term, 
'mental suggesUon.' 

Rtchet sajs very happily that the courage of the 
iMlentlBe mao couciaU not only In making eiperl- 
:tBetit« dangerous to life upon cholera, rabies, and Ihe 
~ inefacUou of gates, but also in exposing his repu- 
tetion to blemish by advocating a theory which Is 
(Hterally discredited. Rlcbet has taken his courage 
'}b his hand, and has published an article In whicti 
16 claims to have established a strong probability iu 
ital suggestion. We venture to believe 
It the careful reader will cume to the conclusion 
tc offer such unsatisfactory experiments, so in- 
leqiialely treated, was a greater strain upon his 
Uian the novelty of what he attempts to 
The Society for psychical research has al- 
ly established a strong presumption Id favor of 
ital action at a distance. Bichet's experiments 
not to he compared with lliose of the society, 
«r In the care with which th:ywere performed 
the accuracy with which they are &lt;Ieacril&gt;ed; and 
unfamiliarity with the theory of probabilities 
senders bis numerical deductions, except the most 
Avlons oaes, misleading and useless. 

The experiments are mainly of four kinds, — guess- 
le suit of a card drawn at hazard from a full 
gueasiiig a photogcaph drawn at hazard from a 
of six, Rnding a watch hidden under one of several 
ige-trees by means of the vibrations of a slick, 
and spelling out names by means of table-rappings- 
There is a great deal that is interesting and sugges- 
tive in these experiments, and It Is a pity that they 
are not mure convincing. It wilt hardly he believed 
that in guessing cards the author does not stale 
whether llie two persona engaged in the experiment 
are in contact ornot. Such rcmariiable things are 
done nowadays in any parlor by muscle-reading. 
that DO esi&gt;erlment in which there ia contact is of the 
■lightest weight in establishing mental suggestion. 
Certain precautions, the imibor aays, are Indlbpen- 
cable, — the cards should beafullpack; the one drawn 
&gt;uld be returned after each trial; the person who 
Bl the card should abstain from every word, 
every indicfttlon, however imperceptible it may 
but he omits to say whether he is hand in hand 
.h Ihe person who guesses or not. Doubtless he is 
:; but an experiment in which so essential a cir- 
as this ia left to be inferred by Ihe reader 
ind of experiment that carries conviction 
rith ft. The conditions under which the photo- 
guessed remain equally unde!cribed; but 
reinnrk. &quot; It is necessary to eliminate every sign, 
ither in the direction of the eyes or in the ex- 
by which an indication can bo given,&quot; 

makes it plain that the simple precaution of putting 
the performers in such a position that It should be 
impossible to give any indication by the expressioD 
or the direction of the eyes, was not attended to. We 
pass over the experiments in finding a watch hidden 
under oraiige&lt;treeii, for the reason, that. In order to 
attribute any weight to them, it would be necessary 
to know, among other things, where the person 
stands who has hidden the watch, and nlietlier the 
one who finds U is blindfolded or not. That the 
experiments were performed in a garden In the en- 
vlroiis of Paris, that the orange-trees were cultivated 
in boxes, and thai they stood in two rows, are the 
only details that are given. 

The last series of experiments was made by BIcbet 
and live of his friends, — friends from infancy, intel- 
ligent men, well-Instructed, and not at all mystical, — 
two of whom are mediums. Three of these men sit 
atone table, — the rapplng-table, — and two, A and B, 
at another. Some one thinks of a name. A moves a 
pencil along an alphabet which ia on the table io 
front of him; when he reaches a certain letter, the 
other table, by rapping, ringa a bell, and U write* 
down the letter indicated. In this way something 
like the tiatne thought of la written down, — Jeanr 
for Jfard, Foqdem for Esther, Dierooreg for Cheuv- 
reux, and, the only very good one, Cheval for Che- 
vaion. The person who bas the name in his mind 
n'ett ni ii la table nf H Calphabet; but, to such a 
degree doca Mr. Kichet'a talent for Inconiplete de- 
scription pursue bini, it ia not said thai he Is stand- 
ing where be cannot see the alpliabel. If that is the 
case, the experiment Is n very extraordinary one, 
totally different from simply divining what another 
person has in his mind. The medium, who sits 
laughing, talking, and singing with his friends, Is re- 
quired to give bis table a vigorous shaking at the 
instant that two persons near him, who are think- 
ing of the letters of the alphabet, happen to think of 
the some letter. Such magic as this throws even the 
ghosts of the English society Into the shade; and the 
observer will need to pile Pelion upon Oasa by way 
of proof, before he can hope to gain credence for II. 

Admitting that Bichet's experiments were per- 
formed with a rigor with which they are not de- 
scribed, hia estimation of the iniprobahllily of their 
results arising by chance falls far short of llie truth. 
He Fays, after combining the results of all his ex- 
periments, — those made with medinms, with 'sensi- 
tives,' and with the non-hypnotlzable, — that the 
probabiilly in favor of mental suggestion may bo 
represented by 5- This number is the ratio of 
the difference between the actual number and the 
probable number of successes to the whole number 
of trials. But a comparison of this sort affords no 
measure of the iniprohabiUty of the observed facts 
being the result of chance. It is not the deviation 
from an average, but the probability that a given 
deviation should arise, that givrs the value of the 
evidence in favor of Iheoperalion of a cause. Bicbet 
does not aeem to know that there is a maibematicoi 
formula by which this probability Is determined. 
For Instance: In three series of experiments In guess-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6lvuhjrduge81iydi0ozkj42tm77v7u</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:History of Richland County, Ohio.djvu/842</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>418204</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133243</id>
      <parentid>14628224</parentid>
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        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
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&gt;u 

830 

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCHES: 

MONROE TOWNSHIP. 

ANDREWS, JAMES (deceased); he was born near 
Cannonsburg, Penn., Feb. 6, 1796; his father, Col. 
John Andrews, commanded a regiment of Ohio militia 
in the war of 1812 ; among the engagements he partic- 
ipated in was the battle of Fort Meigs. .James An- 
drews was married to Miss Levina Carrick Feb. 11, 
1822; she was born near Gettysburg, Adams Co., 
Penn., Jan. 19, 1797 ; her parents removed to Harri- 
son Co., Ohio, about the year 1806. James Andrews 
and wife removed to Richland Co. in the spring of 
1828 ; he purchased a quarter-section of land in Mon- 
roe Township, which is now owned by his son Samuel. 
James and Levina Andrews are the parents of seven 
children, six sons and one daughter ; .John G., the eld- 
est child, was born in Jeiferson Co. Jan. 29, 1823 ; 
James C, their second son, was born Aug. 4, 182-5 ; he 
and his younger brothers and sister were born in Mon- 
roe Township; William R., their third son, was born 
Oct. 18, 1828 ; Mary Jane was born May 26, 1831 ; 
David, their fourth son, was born .June 18, 1833 ; 
Joseph, their fifth son, was born May 21, 1838 ; Sam- 
uel, their youngest son, was born July 29, 1840. Mr. 
and Mrs. Andrews were consistent members of the 
United Presbyterian Church many years. He was of a 
kind and generous disposition. Mr. Andrews depart- 
ed this life Nov. 18, 1850; his disease was cancer on 
the breast ; he had it removed when it had attained to 
several pounds in weight, but this did not suffice to 
save his life ; after enduring for many days agony the 
most intense and suffering the most intolerable, he was 
finally relieved by death ; he was buried in the Pine 
Run graveyard. .John, their eldest son, married 
Rebecca White ; James, Rebecca Paxton ; AVilliam, 
Elizabeth StaufFer; Mary Jane, Daniel McFarland; 
Joseph, Ella Simpkins. .James and Mary Jane reside 
in Kosciusko Co., Ind.; John in lowana Co., Mich., 
and Joseph in Pawnee Co., Kan. .Joseph Andrews 
enlisted in Co. C, 64th 0. V. I., in September, 1861, 
and served his country faithfully during the war of the 
rebellion ; he participated in the battles of Stone River, 
Chickamauga, Mission Ridge, Franklin, Tenn., and 
many other minor engagements ; he was a brave and 
intrepid soldier. David Andrews enlisted in Co. B, 
120th 0. V. I.; he died of disease contracted in the 
service at Milliken's Bend, near Vicksburg, May 5, 
1863. Samuel Andrews enlisted in November, 1861, in 
the 6th Ohio Battery ; he served fourteen months, 
when he was honorably discharged from the service on 
account of general disability. Samuel Andrews was 
married to Miss Amanda C. Wiles June 9, 1864 ; he 
brought his wife home to his mother's house, where 
they continued to reside, caring and providing for his 
aged parent during her declining years, and cultivating 
a portion of the old homestead ; at her decease, he 
became the owner of this farm by purchase, where he 
still continues to reside ; this is one of the best upland 
farms in the township ; it is well watered, well tim- 
bered, and well adapted to the raising of all kinds of 

grain and grasses. Samuel Andrews and wife are the 
parents of seven children, four sons and three daugh- 
ters — Harmon, Cary S., Minnie E., Alta T., Levina C. 
and Samuel L.; one died in infancy ; Harmon is buried 
in the St. John's Cemetery. Mr. Andrews and wife 
have been active members of the Evangelical Lutheran 
Church for many years, and are much respected for 
their many virtues. 

APPLEGATE, JOHN. His parents were born in 
Washington Co., Penn., and emigrated to Richland Co. 
in the year 1820 ;' they located in Monroe Township 
and entered the farm that Mr. Applegate now lives on, 
and his father resided there until his death, which 
occurred Feb. 15, 1878 ; they had a family of eleven 
children. John Applegate was born Feb. 10, 1843 ; in 
getting an education, he went to district school until he 
was 14 years old, when he went to a select school in 
Lucas, taught by Dr. J. E. Strickler. He enlisted Oct. 
15, 1861, in Co. E, 64th 0. V. I., and was in all the 
principal engagements the Army of the Cumberland 
participated in, and re-enlisted .Jan. 1, 1864, as a vet- 
eran, and served until the close of the war ; he was 
mustered out and honorably discharged Jan. 4, 1866, 
having faithfully served his country over four years ; 
after returning home, he rented his father's farm, and 
commenced farming in the spring of 1866. He was 
married to Miss H. C. Winters Feb. 11, 1868, and they 
have a family of three children — George W. and Stiles 
W., who are twins, and were born Jan. 10, 1869 ; Hat- 
,tie E., born July 10, 1874. He moved into Ashland 
Co. April 3, 1869, and resided there until March 17, 
1880, when he moved back to the old homestead (he 
having bought it the fall before), where he, together 
with his family, enjoys the many comforts of life, and 
the esteem of those around them. &gt; 

BARR, SAMUEL, farmer; P. 0. Lucas; was born 
in Bedford Co., Penn., May 25, 1823 ; he is the eldest 
son of David and Mary Barr; his mother's maiden 
name was Kaylor ; his parents were both of German 
descent ; they came to Ohio in the spring of 1830. 
David Barr left his family in Stark Co., during that 
summer, while he came to this county to hunt a loca- 
tion ; he purchased the southeast quarter of Sec. 5, in 
Monroe Township ; he removed his family to this 
township in the fiill of the same year, but, their farm 
being unimproved, they did not move thereon till the 
following spring ; in the mean time, they put up a 
house and removed a portion of the dense forest that 
encumbered their lands ; in the spring, they removed 
to their farm and went to work in earnest to improve 
and cultivate.it; by persevering industry on the part 
of all the members of the family who were old enough 
to labor, the wilderness disappeared and fruitful fields 
appeared in their stead. David and Mary Barr are 
the parents of seven children, three sons and four 
daughters ; they are named in Ihe order of their 
births, as follows : Samuel, Frederick, Nancy, Susan, 
Elizabeth, Ephraim and Mary. Ephraim died when 

If&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2ce9bcm0r0puvnok6mhli94h6nrgqqt</sha1>
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    <revision>
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&gt;u 

830 

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCHES: 

MONROE TOWNSHIP. 

ANDREWS, JAMES (deceased); he was born near 
Cannonsburg, Penn., Feb. 6, 1796; his father, Col. 
John Andrews, commanded a regiment of Ohio militia 
in the war of 1812 ; among the engagements he partic- 
ipated in was the battle of Fort Meigs. .James An- 
drews was married to Miss Levina Carrick Feb. 11, 
1822; she was born near Gettysburg, Adams Co., 
Penn., Jan. 19, 1797 ; her parents removed to Harri- 
son Co., Ohio, about the year 1806. James Andrews 
and wife removed to Richland Co. in the spring of 
1828 ; he purchased a quarter-section of land in Mon- 
roe Township, which is now owned by his son Samuel. 
James and Levina Andrews are the parents of seven 
children, six sons and one daughter ; .John G., the eld- 
est child, was born in Jeiferson Co. Jan. 29, 1823 ; 
James C, their second son, was born Aug. 4, 182-5 ; he 
and his younger brothers and sister were born in Mon- 
roe Township; William R., their third son, was born 
Oct. 18, 1828 ; Mary Jane was born May 26, 1831 ; 
David, their fourth son, was born .June 18, 1833 ; 
Joseph, their fifth son, was born May 21, 1838 ; Sam- 
uel, their youngest son, was born July 29, 1840. Mr. 
and Mrs. Andrews were consistent members of the 
United Presbyterian Church many years. He was of a 
kind and generous disposition. Mr. Andrews depart- 
ed this life Nov. 18, 1850; his disease was cancer on 
the breast ; he had it removed when it had attained to 
several pounds in weight, but this did not suffice to 
save his life ; after enduring for many days agony the 
most intense and suffering the most intolerable, he was 
finally relieved by death ; he was buried in the Pine 
Run graveyard. .John, their eldest son, married 
Rebecca White ; James, Rebecca Paxton ; AVilliam, 
Elizabeth StaufFer; Mary Jane, Daniel McFarland; 
Joseph, Ella Simpkins. .James and Mary Jane reside 
in Kosciusko Co., Ind.; John in Iowana Co., Mich., 
and Joseph in Pawnee Co., Kan. .Joseph Andrews 
enlisted in Co. C, 64th 0. V. I., in September, 1861, 
and served his country faithfully during the war of the 
rebellion ; he participated in the battles of Stone River, 
Chickamauga, Mission Ridge, Franklin, Tenn., and 
many other minor engagements ; he was a brave and 
intrepid soldier. David Andrews enlisted in Co. B, 
120th 0. V. I.; he died of disease contracted in the 
service at Milliken's Bend, near Vicksburg, May 5, 
1863. Samuel Andrews enlisted in November, 1861, in 
the 6th Ohio Battery ; he served fourteen months, 
when he was honorably discharged from the service on 
account of general disability. Samuel Andrews was 
married to Miss Amanda C. Wiles June 9, 1864 ; he 
brought his wife home to his mother's house, where 
they continued to reside, caring and providing for his 
aged parent during her declining years, and cultivating 
a portion of the old homestead ; at her decease, he 
became the owner of this farm by purchase, where he 
still continues to reside ; this is one of the best upland 
farms in the township ; it is well watered, well tim- 
bered, and well adapted to the raising of all kinds of 

grain and grasses. Samuel Andrews and wife are the 
parents of seven children, four sons and three daugh- 
ters — Harmon, Cary S., Minnie E., Alta T., Levina C. 
and Samuel L.; one died in infancy ; Harmon is buried 
in the St. John's Cemetery. Mr. Andrews and wife 
have been active members of the Evangelical Lutheran 
Church for many years, and are much respected for 
their many virtues. 

APPLEGATE, JOHN. His parents were born in 
Washington Co., Penn., and emigrated to Richland Co. 
in the year 1820 ;' they located in Monroe Township 
and entered the farm that Mr. Applegate now lives on, 
and his father resided there until his death, which 
occurred Feb. 15, 1878 ; they had a family of eleven 
children. John Applegate was born Feb. 10, 1843 ; in 
getting an education, he went to district school until he 
was 14 years old, when he went to a select school in 
Lucas, taught by Dr. J. E. Strickler. He enlisted Oct. 
15, 1861, in Co. E, 64th 0. V. I., and was in all the 
principal engagements the Army of the Cumberland 
participated in, and re-enlisted .Jan. 1, 1864, as a vet- 
eran, and served until the close of the war ; he was 
mustered out and honorably discharged Jan. 4, 1866, 
having faithfully served his country over four years ; 
after returning home, he rented his father's farm, and 
commenced farming in the spring of 1866. He was 
married to Miss H. C. Winters Feb. 11, 1868, and they 
have a family of three children — George W. and Stiles 
W., who are twins, and were born Jan. 10, 1869 ; Hat- 
,tie E., born July 10, 1874. He moved into Ashland 
Co. April 3, 1869, and resided there until March 17, 
1880, when he moved back to the old homestead (he 
having bought it the fall before), where he, together 
with his family, enjoys the many comforts of life, and 
the esteem of those around them. &gt; 

BARR, SAMUEL, farmer; P. 0. Lucas; was born 
in Bedford Co., Penn., May 25, 1823 ; he is the eldest 
son of David and Mary Barr; his mother's maiden 
name was Kaylor ; his parents were both of German 
descent ; they came to Ohio in the spring of 1830. 
David Barr left his family in Stark Co., during that 
summer, while he came to this county to hunt a loca- 
tion ; he purchased the southeast quarter of Sec. 5, in 
Monroe Township ; he removed his family to this 
township in the fiill of the same year, but, their farm 
being unimproved, they did not move thereon till the 
following spring ; in the mean time, they put up a 
house and removed a portion of the dense forest that 
encumbered their lands ; in the spring, they removed 
to their farm and went to work in earnest to improve 
and cultivate.it; by persevering industry on the part 
of all the members of the family who were old enough 
to labor, the wilderness disappeared and fruitful fields 
appeared in their stead. David and Mary Barr are 
the parents of seven children, three sons and four 
daughters ; they are named in Ihe order of their 
births, as follows : Samuel, Frederick, Nancy, Susan, 
Elizabeth, Ephraim and Mary. Ephraim died when 

If&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fgj3k5edxiobd81jqt7omnsm2pyandh</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Author:Edna Dean Proctor</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
    <id>418773</id>
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      <id>15131962</id>
      <parentid>14485423</parentid>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Works */ rm redundant retransclusions of part of an already-linked page</comment>
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      <text bytes="649" sha1="nlp0rbp8a5rfv9f50x4g9i90989dxo5" xml:space="preserve">{{author
 | firstname    = Edna
 | lastname     = Proctor
 | last_initial = Pr
 | description  = American poet
 }}

==Works==
*&quot;[[The Psyche (Proctor)|The Psyche]]&quot; (1858)
*&quot;[[A voice from Harper's Ferry/The Virginia scaffold|The Virginia Scaffold]]&quot;, reprinted in [[A voice from Harper's Ferry]] (1859)
*''[[Poems (Proctor)|Poems]]'' (1890)

==Works about Proctor==
*[[Representative women of New England/Edna Dean Proctor|&quot;Edna Dean Proctor&quot;]], in ''[[Representative Women of New England]]'' (1904), by [[Author:Mary H. Graves|Mary H. Graves]]

{{PD/US|1923}}
{{authority control}}

[[Category:United States poets]]
[[Category:Early modern poets]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Journal of botany, British and foreign, Volume 9 (1871).djvu/208</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>463955</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133255</id>
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        <id>1511</id>
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      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: KEPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (3)</comment>
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      <text bytes="3592" sha1="onkbsv3n24bak23zh7ul4r1i4ayplxr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Hesperian&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;186 REPORT OF THE BOTANICAL EXCHANGE CLUB. 

Carex arenar'ia, Linn. &quot; Sandy ground near Frensliam, Surrey.&quot; — 
H. C. Watson. These inland specimens are quite similar to the mari- 
time ones, and show no tendency to become 0. disticka, Huds., which 
Mr. Benthasn considers merely &quot;an inland variety of C. areuaria.'' 

C. aquatUis, Waiil. ?, var. Watsoiii. &quot; River Don, at Dyce, Aberdeen.&quot; 
— J. lloY. Dr. Roy has been good enough to send living specimens of 
the Carex supposed to be C. acuta, which grows in the river Don, near 
Aberdeen. As I expected, it proves to be C. TFatsonl. The leaves are 
narrower and much more glaucous than in the alpine form of C. arjnatiUs, 
the stems 2 to 3 feet high. Dr. Hooker, in the ' Student's Flora,' inad- 
vertently quotes my var. Walsoni as a synonym of Dr. Boott's &quot;var. 
2, minor,&quot; instt-ad of under &quot;var. 1, aqiiatilis proper,&quot; under which, I 
siippose, it ought to be, though the stem can scarcely be described as 
&quot; scaberulous above.&quot; 

Carex flava, var. lepidocarpa . &quot; Orrock Hill, Fife.&quot; — J. BosWELL 
Syme. I collected a few specimens of this plant, but not nearly enough 
to satisfy the demands for it. 'J his can only be from the plant not being 
properly known. I am coutirnied in this opinion by some remarks by a 
botanist so well acquainted with Carices as Mr. Sidebotham at the 
Literary and Fiiilosophical Society of Manchester, where he remarks that 
in C lepidocarpa the fruit is &quot; pale green, or yellowish-green, and the 
beak straight.&quot; There is no perceptible diflerence in the colour of the 
fmit of C. lepidocarpa aiul C.fava (jenidna when examined in the same 
stage of ripeness. They bolh cominence with being green and end with 
being brownish-yellow, and the beak of C. lepidocarpa is always detiexed, 
tbougii not so much so as in the genuine form. Mr. Sidebotham's remarks 
respecting C. lepidocarpa would rather apply to C. (Ederi. C. Q^deri has 
no special partiality for the coast, either in England or Scotland ; this 
is in answer to a query put in the April number of the 'Journal of 
Botany.' (Yol. Y. p. 127). 

C. punctata, Gaiul. &quot; Co. Cork.&quot; — L Carroll. Mr. A. G. More has 
sent a specimen of the veritable plant, so that the ? given after L'eland, 
in the third edition of 'English Botany,' vol. x. p. ]51, must be ex- 
punged. 

Alopecurus f ulcus, Sm. &quot; The locality from which the specimen was 
gathered was discovered by Eev. W. H. Puvchas in IS 69; the plant is 
new to Herefordshire.&quot; — A. Ley. 

y4r/rostis setac.ea, Curtis. &quot; Sparingly on Woking Lleath, between the 
Woking Station and the Dramatic College; confirming the grass to the 
county of Surrey, although in a different part of it from the old and 
doubted localities.&quot; — H. C. W'atson. 

Aba uliginosa, Weihe. &quot; Swampy hollows, nearly dry in July, on 
Woking Heath, Surrey ; one of them about a quarter of a mile southward 
from the Dramatic College, the other f.bout the like distance nearer to 
Woking Station. It may shortly become extinct in both, tin'ough the 
progress of enclosure and drainage. Some specimens were dried for 
distribution, as better showing the tufted growth than did those brought 
from Fleet Pond, Hampshire, in 1869, two months later in the season.&quot; 
— H. C. Watson. &quot; Still occurs at Loch of Park, and in profusion near 
Loch Connor, between Aboyne and Ballater ; indeed I have a suspicion 
now that it is abundant in the interior of this district, but at presenr, 
I can speak with certainty as to these two localities only. The alti- 
tude of Loch Connor is 600 feet.&quot;— J. PiOY.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 88.djvu/256</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="3052" sha1="t6d91h24bird4dvacrw28zk08wrbdkw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Mjbot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;228 

Popular Science Monthly 

ed by the reports for the year 1914, 
which show that fifty Iowans were 
killed on railroad crossings of this 
sort. The death toll from this source 
for 1915 has been almost as large. 

Immediately following a fatal acci- 
dent, when public opinion demands ac- 
tion on the part of the local authori- 
ties, plan and estimates of cost are 
worked out, and a tentative adjust- 
ment of the cost between the county 
and railroad is made. In the majority 
of cases the railroads have been willing 

This old fort has been converted into a 

water tower, and is saving much expense 

to the town 

to co-operate with the state in remov- 
ing these sources of danger from the 
country highways. One railroad in 
particular relocated eleven dangerous 
crossings in one county. 

Dangerous turns in overhead cross- 
ings, bridges undermined during flood 
seasons, sharp turns in roads, &quot;chuck&quot; 
holes, ditches alongside roads, weeds 
and other obstructions on roads, un- 
guarded bridges, speeding on slippery 
roads, reckless driving at night, 

&quot;short&quot; culverts, steep embankments, 
neglect in placing warning signs or 
barricading dangerous places are some 
of the sources of danger the traveler 
in the country must encounter almost 
every day. 

The loss of more than 125 lowans 
in the last two years has not been 
without some beneficial results, as a 
demand for the building of permanent 
roads has been crystalized as the re- 
sult of these sacrifices. It has been 
rather a costly manner in which to 
awaken the public to the need of these 
changes, however. 

Sprinkling Streets with the Aid 
of an old Fort 

ONE of the many Martello towers or 
forts found around the coast in the 
Channel Islands has been put to a novel 
use. These buildings lie idle for the 
most part, having been built over a hun- 
dred years ago, and are now useless 
from a military point of view. 

In Jersey Island, however, a use has 
been found for one of these towers. It 
now forms the base of a water tank used 
for street-sprinkling. 

A windmill pumps water into the tank, 
thus saving considerable expense for- 
merly incurred when water was taken 
from the water company's mains. 

Signal Lights for Traveling Cranes 

W( )RKMEN employed in shops 
where a traveling crane is used 
are constantly on guard to see whether 
the crane is approaching them. This 
consumes a considerable amount of 
time, which, when multiplied by all the 
workmen so occupied in looking up at 
the crane, totals up to a formidable 
loss. An Ohio firm has placed on 
the market a device which is designed 
to warn the workmen, by means of red 
and green lights on the crane, whether 
the latter is coming toward, or moving 
away, from them. When the crane ap- 
proaches the observer, the red light au- 
tomatically lights, and when it departs 
from the observer, a green light gives 
the safety signal. The device has the 
advantage over warning gongs, which 
merely attract without telling the direc- 
tion in which the crane is moving.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 18 Part 1.djvu/164</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>508979</id>
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      <text bytes="4132" sha1="hors3cm9p98pxwzxxvsn2f1xc1yffx2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;92 TITLE xm.-—THE JUDICIARY.——Ch. 1-2.
quehanna, Bradford, Tioga, Union, Northumberland, Columbia, Luzerne,
and Lycoming, as they existed April 20, 1818. The eastern district
includes the residue of said State.
S011th 0¤¤&gt;1i¤¤· Sec. 546. The State of South Carolina is divided into two districts,
&quot;§1'1:,,1,;`§;j_ ,._ which shall be called the eastern and western districts of the district of
11, s. 1,v. 3, p. 726. South Carolina. The western district includes the counties of Lancaster,
Chester, York, Union, Spartanbuilgh, Greenville, Pendleton. Abbeville,
Edgetield, Newberry, Laurens, an Fairiield, as they existed February
21, 1823. The eastern district includes the residue of said State.
T¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¢· Sec. 547. The State of Tennessee is divided into three districts, which
`&quot;1,,_1,,,,,, 1838, 1, shall be called the eastern, western, and middle districts of Tennessee.
118,s.1,v.b, p. 249. The eastern district includes the counties of Anderson, Bledsoe, Blount,
18·1¤¤·» 1831% ¤· Bradley, Campbell, Carter, Claiborne, Cooke, Cumberland, Grain r,
3· fb   Bilgggli Greene, Hami ton, Hancock, Hawkins, Jefferson, Johnson, Knox, Me-
8, ,,_ 1,,,11, p_ 1Minn, Marion, Meigs, Monroe, Morgan, Polk, Rhea, Roanc, Scott, Sevier,
3 Mm., 1875, c. Sullivan, Union, and Washington, as they existed February 19, 1856.
148. v- 18.10- 480- '1`he western district includes the counties of Benton, Carroll, Henry,
Obion, Dyer, Gibson, Lauderdale, Ha wood, Tipton, Shelby, Fayette,
Hardeman, McNairy, Hardin, Perry, Myadison, Henderson, and Weakley,
as they existed June 18, 1838. The middle district includes the residue
of said State.
Texas. Sec. 548. The State of Texas is divided into two districts, which shall
21 F,,1,__ 18,57,,, be called the eastern and western districts of Texas. The eastern dis-
57, s. 1,v. 11,p.164. trict includes the counties of Newton, Jasper, Jefferson, Oran , Tyler,
Polk, Liberty, Galveston, Harris, Montgomery, Austin, Fort lgnd, Brazoria, Colorado, Wharton, Matagorda, Lavaca, Jackson, Calhoun, De
Witt, Victoria Goliad, Rcfugio, ban Patricio, N ueces, Cameron, Starr,
Webb, and Hidalgo, as they existed in eighteen hundred and fifty-two.
The western district includes the residue of said State.
Vi¤‘s1¤i¤· Sec. 549. The State of Virginia is divided into two districts, which
3Feb_’]87],c_35’ shall be called the eastern and western districts of Virginia. The westss.1,3,v.16,p.403. ern district includes the counties of Albemarle, Alle hany, Amherst,
Appomattox, Augusta, Bath, Bedford, Bland, Botetourtgiuchanan, Bucking am, Campbe , Carroll, Charlotte, Clarke, Craig, Cumberland, Floyd,
Franklin, Frederick, Fluvanna, Giles, Grayson, Greene, Halifax, Henry,
Highland, Lee, Madison, Montgomery, Nelson, Patrick, Page, Pulaski,
Pittsylvania, Rappahannock, Roanoke, Rockbridge, Rockingham Russell, Scott, Smvt , Shenandoah, Tazewell, Washin ton, Wise Wythe,
and Warren. The eastern district includes the residine of said State.
Wisconsin. Sec. 550. The State of Wisconsin is divided into two districts, which
Yrmjsm shall be called the eastern and western districts of Wisconsin. The
1·,5,,_1,;.;;v_11;:p_ western district includes the counties of Rock, Jelierson, Dane, Green,
171. Grant, Columbia, Iowa, La Fa ettc, Sauk, Richland, Crawford, Vernon,
La Crosse, Monroe, Adams, Jimeau, Buffalo, Chi pewa, Dunn Clark,
Jackson, Eau Claire, Pepin, Marathon, Wood, Hierce, Polk, Portage,
Saint Croix, Trempealeau, Douglas, Barron, Burnett, Ashland, and Bay-
field. The eastern district includes the residue of said State.
CHAPTER TWO.
DISTRICT 00UBT8—0B.GA1I`IZATIOI.
Sec. 1 Sec.
551. District judges, appointment and res- , 556. Arkansas, western district; clerks.
idenee. 557. Kentucky; clerks.
552. Judges in Alabama, Georgia, Missis- 558. Deputy clerks.
sippi, North Carolina, South Caro- 559. Delputy clerks of the district court il
lina, and Tennessee. ndiana.
553. District judge of southern district of 560. Iowa; deputy clerks.
Florida. 561. Compensation of deputy clerks.
554. Salaries of district judges. 562. Records, where kept.
555. (`Ierks.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 18 Part 1.djvu/407</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>509249</id>
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      <text bytes="4717" sha1="0ded19soyu81t4j7i9sb25vpogpw51c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;'1‘rn.u xxm.—THE TERRI’1‘ORIES.—C¤. 2. 335
such boundary-line to the place of beginning, is erected into a temporary
government by the name of the Territory of New Mexico.
Sec. 1897. All that part of the territory of the United States included Of Uhhwithin the following limits, to wit: Bounded on the west by the State of 9 scp;,, 1853;
California, on the north by the State of Oregon, and on the east by the 51.¤- Lv- 9, p- 453.
summit of the Rocky Mountains, and on the south by the thirty-seventh
parallel of north latitude, is created into a temporary government by the
name of the Territory of Utah.
Sec. 1898. All that portion of Oregon, while that State was a Terri- of W¤¤hi¤z¤0¤-
torv, lying and being south of the fort ·-ninth degree of north latitude,  
and north of the middle of the main channel of the Columbia River, 90, s.1,v. io, p. 192:
from its mouth to where the forty-sixth degree of north latitude crosses
that river, near Fort Walla-Walla; thence with the forty-sixth degree of
latitude to the summit of the Rocky Mountains, is or nized into a temporary government by the name of the Territory of Washington.
Sec. 1899. All that part of the territory of the United States included Of C°l°¤d0·
within the following limits, viz: Commencing on the thirt -seventh par- 28 Feb., 1861,;
allel of north latitude, where the twenty-fifth meridian of longitude west 59.¤-Lv-12.pY172-
from Washington crosses the same; thence north on that meridian to the
forty-first parallel of north latitude; thence alon that parallel west to the
thirty-second meridian of longitude west from Wmhingmn; thence south
on that meridian to the northern line of New Mexico; thence along the
thirty-seventh parallel of north latitude to the place of beginnin , is erected
into a temporarv gpvernment by the name o the Terr1tor 0% Colorado.
Sec. 1900. All t at part of the territory of the United Sytates included Of Dakota.
within the followin limits, namelly: Commencing at a point in the main  
channel of the Reddtiver of the orth, where the forty-ninth degree of g6,s_1,vj2,p_§39Q
north latitude crosses the same; thence u the main channel of the same,
‘and along the boundary of the State of Minnesota to Big Stone Lake;
thence along the boundary-line of the State of Minnesota to the Iowa
line; thence along the boundary line of the State of Iowa to the point
of intersection between the Big Sioux and Missouri Rivers; thence up
the Missouri River, and along the boundary-line of the State of Nebraska,
to the mouth of the Niobrara or Running Water River; thence following u the same, in the middle of the main channel thereof, to the mouth of
the Igaha Paha or Turtle Hill River; thence up that river to the forty-third
parallel of north latitude; thence due west to the twenty-seventh meridian of longitude west from Washington; thence due north on that meridian, to the forty-ninth degree of north latitude; thence east, along the
forty-ninth degree of north latitude, to the place of beginning, is organized
into a tempora government by the name of the Territory of Dakota. _
Sm. 1901. Aril that part of the present Territory of New Mexico sit- 0* A¤¤¤¤¤·-
uate west of a line running due south from the point where the southwest 24 Febq ]863, c_
corner of the Territory of Colorado joins the northern boundarpy of the 56, s.1,v.12, p. 664.
Territor of New Mexico to the southern boundary-line of the erritory
of New Mexico, is erected into a temporary government by the name of
the Territory of Arizona.
Sm. 1902. All that rt of the territory of the United States included Of Idahowithin the following liinits, to wit: Beginning at a point in the middle 3 M,,.&quot; 1883, c_
channel of the Snake River, where the northern boundary of Oregon 117, a 1, v. 12, p.
intersects the same; then follow down the channel of Snake River to 808-
a point o posite the mouth of Kooskooskia or Clear Water River; thence
due north to the forty-ninth parallel of latitude; thence east, along that
parallel, to the thirt -ninth degree of longitude west of Washirigton;
thence south along that degree of longitu e to the crest of the itter
Boot Mountains; thence southward along the crest of the Bitter Root
Mountains till its intersection with the Rocky Mountains; thence southward along the crest of the Rocky Mountains to the thirty'-fourth degree
of longitude west of Washington; thence south along that degree
of longitude to the forty-secon degase of north latitude; thence west,
along that rallel, to the eastern undary of the State of Oregonthence nortliiralong that boundary, to the place of beginning, is created
into a temporary government by the name of the Territory of Idaho.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0ded19soyu81t4j7i9sb25vpogpw51c</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 18 Part 1.djvu/1418</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>510290</id>
    <revision>
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Section. I _ S¤•M•&gt;¤·
BEPEA.L—C0ntinued. [ BEPBESEN‘;'ATIYES—C0ntinued.
not to affect acts done, accrued rights, z taking T»€&gt;8Um0¤}' in ·; -···--···--·—···· 107*09
gw  _ __ ____ 5597 { subpoenas, by whom issued, &amp;c  110-111
how offenses under, rosecuted . 5598 { justices of peace may act, when . 112
of acts of limitation, how affected ... 5599 depositions taken,_without notioe ... 113
acts passed subsequent to Revised Stat- witnesses m, provisions in regard to  114-117
utes to have full effect, dm., when in additional officer to take testimony .. 118
manic; with, are ... 5601 party may appear by agent or attorney- - 119
KEPLEVIN, examination of witnesses .. . . . -120-122
property detained, &amp;c., under authority of pl‘0d\1Ct10¤ of [&gt;·¤P€!`S_ ------ ; ·----------· 123
revenue laws not subject to . 934 adjournments in taking test1m0ny ..,... 5. 124
REPORTERS,subpoena, &amp;c., to be attached to deposito House of Representatives to be approved tions . : . I . _. 125
by Speaker ..._,,_____ , _,,__,_,,,_ 54 certifying, transmission, &amp;e., of testireporter of decisions of Supreme Court  677 mony .. r n  126, 127
duties and Salary ____ _ _______________,, 681, 682 opening of deposition .. 127
reports of, price .,.. 682 fees of witnesses and officers ..,,,_. 128, 129
distribution of ________________,. 386, 387, 683 expenses of parties not paid by House. . - 130
appropriation for three hundred copies BEQUISITIONS,
of ___________________________ p, 729, 3689 of Secretary of Senate, for what money  56
of courts-martial in Army .,._...,.. 1203 by Attorney—General . 369
BEPQRTS, by Secretary of Interior .. 444
annual, of heads of departments  193~198 for money of War and Navy Departof Secretary of State ...,,.. 207-209 ments . L ... 3673
of Treasury ,,,,,,,,,., - . 257, 265 for publications disiributed by Secretary of
of War _,,__.,,,._.,.,.,,...,... 228-232 Interior, by whom made ... 500
of Navy ,,,,,,,..,,,,,.,... . . 429 RESCUEG,
of Secretary of Interior ... 445 property, &amp;c., seized by internal-revenue
of Postmaster-General .. 413 otificers  3177
of Atterney—General .. - ... 384, 385 person found guilty of capital crime, while
of Treasurer ... 311 going to or uring execution  5400
of Comptroller of Currency . 333 persons committed for capital crime, before
of Commissioner of Patents . 494 conviction, or convicted of crime other
of Commissioner of Agriculture  528, 529 than capital ... 5401
of decisions of Supreme Court, price and dead body of executed offender from mardistribution of, to public officers, sha or surgeon  5402
&amp;c . . .386, 387, 682, 683 property detained by officer under revenue
permanent appropriation for certain law ... 5446
copies of ..r . . p. 729, 3689 property seized by customs-officer, or by
of national banks, of assets and liabili- person assisting him .,.,.,,, 5447
ties and special reports . 5211 from custody persons arrested under laws
of dividends ... 5212 resgecting civil rights ,..,., 5516
pcnalt r for failure to make . 5213 BESEBV TIONS,
penalty ior failure or refusal of any officer in District of Columbia, plans, &amp;c., to be
to make, when required  1780 kept by Chief of Engineers .,,,,.,__ 1809
number to be printed of annual, of depart- improper occupation of, by whom prements . 3798 vented .,.. 1818
of bureau officers, &amp;c., how printed ... 3788 of public lands, minimum priceto be fixed
of offers and contracts for carrying mail, for when brought into market .. 2364
not to be 'printed unless, &amp;c  3797 for light-houses, custoimhouses, mints,
BEPBESENTA IVES, (See House of Rep- &amp;c., excepted from operation of laws
re.we11taliz·es.) relating to town sites .,._._.__,,,,,, 2393
constitutional provisions c0ncerning_pp. 18, not subject to preemption __,,_,_._,,___ 2258
19, 23, 27,31. ulawfully cutting or destroying timber
apportionment of  20 on, how punished ...,_._..._,,,,_,_ 5388
on admission of new States ... 21 of live-oak and red-cedar lands for naval
reduction of, from State abridging rights purposes. how made and protected
under fourteenth amendment to gon- (see Timber) ..._.,.______,, 2458-2463, 4751
stitution ... 22 on contracts with Navy Department may
elected by districts ... 23 be relinquished ._,,,_______________ 3730
at what time ... 24, 25 RESERVED FUND,
by ballot .. 27 of national banks, amount, &amp;c,, of ___,____ 5191
in cases of vacancies . ‘ ... 26what it may consist of ,,,_,________ _ _5192, 5193
offenses against rights of voters, &amp;c., at , when half of, may be kept in New York, 5195
elections .. 5511-5515, 5520 ‘ issuing gold-notes .. - ... 5186
compensation of . 35-51 l RESIGNATION,
of Speaker . 37 of judges in certain cases entitles then} to
in case of contested elections  38 salarv for life ,... , .,..,..,, , __,,,,_ 714
ayable monthly. .. 39 in Army, leaving before acceptamge, penroll of, elect, how made, &amp;c .. 31-33 alty ,...,,,___________ p, 234, m-(_ 49, 1342
organization of House of .. 30-34 in Navy, except dismissal by court-martial,
deductions frorv pay of, for absence, for disqualifies from again becoming offibO0l·IS, &amp;c . 40-42 cer, _,_________,_ _ __________ _ ______ 1441
H0 allowance for ¤€WSp8p€1‘B .. 43 or in Marine Corps, leaving post before
H0? for P06U1gé .·.·--...-.- 44 acceptance of, penalty . . p: 278, art. 10, 1624
contested elections .. 105—130 RESOLUTIONS (of Congress),
notice and answer . 105,106 , resolving clause of ,,,,,,,________________ s, 9&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 30.djvu/321</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>514307</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133384</id>
      <parentid>8621057</parentid>
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        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tbr →  thr, POBTER → PORTER</comment>
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      <text bytes="4450" sha1="6bbkpkleekej4pllzeulo72gvva8zfn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;282 FIFTY-FIFTH CONGRESS. Sess. II. Ch. 68. 1898.
P¤z¤¤· each; two chief pages, at nine hundred dollars each; thirty~three pages,
boys not under twelve years of age, during the session, including two
·— piding pérggiséy one tjelephonfn page, land onetflelegraph page, atdtwg deli
ars an cen : per ay eac nine thousand nine un re an
· eighty-two dollars and fifty cents; two messengers during the session,
at seventy dollars per month each, five hundred and sixty dollars · ten
hm&quot;'- laborers during the session, at sixty dollars per month each, two thousand four hundred dollars- six laborers known as cloakroom men at
_ fifty dollars per month each; horse and buggy, for Department inesm,;‘f,Q“,'f,°&quot;{·_f‘f“· °°&quot; “’ senger, two hundred and fifty dollars; four assistants in document
room, one at one thousand six hundred dollars, one at one thousand
two hundred dollars, and two at one thousand dollars each; in all. one
hundred and twenty-six thousand one hundred and forty-six dollars
and fifty cents.
J°°lG&quot;“5’°°“· For employment of Joel Grayson in document room, one thousand
five hundred dollars. ·
P¤¤g¤=»¤¢¤r» •¤¤i¤¢· UFFICE 014* POSTMASTEB: For Postmaster, two thousand five hun-
&quot;&quot;&quot; ° ° dred dollars· assistant postmaster, two thousand dollars; ten messen-
. J . . .
gets, including messenger to superintend transportation of mails, at one
thousand two hundred dollars each- three messengers during the session, at eight hundred dollars each; four messengers; at one hundred
dollar?} pgr zlnonth faalehkduggrég the sessgéngoge tthputsanél lsix hundred
oar·noneaor nun n wn-yoars-ina
twentyjone thousand two ,hundred and twenty dollars. , 7
For hire of horses and mail wagons for carrying the mails, three
thousand dollars, or so much thereof as may be necessary.
Reporting &lt;1¤b¤t·&gt;¤· OFFICIAL REPORTERS: For five official reporters of the proceedings
. and debates of the House, at five thousand dollars each; assistant official reporter, one thousand two hundred dollars; in all, twenty-six
‘ thousand two hundred dollars.
w§f$;Qgc:g_Pb°’° “’ STENOGBAPHERS T0 COMMITTEES: For two stenographers to committees, at four thousand dollars each; assistant stenographer to committees, one thousand two hundred dollars; in all, nine thousand two
lmndreo dollars. .
_,,;,9g,{]§gag f;°d:;:j That wherever the words “ during the session &quot; occur in the foregoing
paragraphs they shall be construed to mean four months, or one hundred
and twenty-one days.
m_*;,*g_lj;¤gl;jégf°¤°°*¤ Fon cmanx LIIRE, Mmmmns AND Dianne-Ares: To pay Members
rm, p. sm, and Delegates the amount which they certify they have paid or agreed
V0] 2_ ) _57 tcl; pay ior clerkdhire necessarily employed by them in the discharge of
· '·l·’ · their officia an representative duties as provided in the Joint Resolution approved March third, eighteen’hnndred and ninety-three, during the session ot Congress, and when Congress is not in session as
provided in_ House Resolution passed May eighth, eighteen hundred
_ and ninety-six, four hundred thousand dollars, or so much thereof as
e,Q;}Q&quot;&quot;&quot;°’ ’·‘°'”&quot;°&quot;’ may be necessary; anddtepresentatives and Delegates elect to Congpesi whose cgzdentials in due thrm of law have been duly filed with the
C er' of the onse of Representatives in accordance with the provi-
R- S-· *·*‘¤-3rv·°· sions of section thirty-one of the Revised Statutes of the United States,
V shall be entitled to payment under this appropriation.
C,;fjjj{;g;“,:,;{BPg:j‘;“· boggln ;;)31;‘ll.*;(;R2NT EXPENSES2g, NAMELY: Fog wréalpping paper, pasie-
' , . _ ine newspa r wrappers an 0 er necessary ma e-
rials for folding, for’ the use of Members of the House, and for use in
tl1IetCIl¢érl€;Ip;°Ihc;]apd ttlhg House folxgn g rpou1§nc;t rricludintgéefivetopes,
p L . 1 o r paper an ma eria s o e prin e ant urnished by the Public Printer upon requisitions from the Clerk of the
&quot;°'·”&quot;· *’*°*'*· House, under the provisions of the Act approved January twelfth,
Ziglitgeu hunldaegd and ninety-five, for the public printing and binding),
've thousand ars.
FM! ¤¤&lt;l eil- For fuel and oil for the heating apparatus, twelve thousand dollars.
Furniture. For furniture, and repairs of the same, nine thousand dollars.
Packing bam. For packing boxes, three thousand two hundred and eighteen dollars
and forty cents.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 30.djvu/399</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>514388</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133385</id>
      <parentid>8621141</parentid>
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      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa, →  Iowa,</comment>
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      <text bytes="4207" sha1="on6cpbr84if76323bzp98bgcziu4leo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;360 FIFTY-FIFTH CONGRESS. Sess. II. CHS. 183·- 185. 1898.
S°°¤‘€*,{¤*Y °fx¤‘*° SECL 5. That any bridge authorized to be constructed under this Act
Pm&quot;` www °°°` shall be built and located under and subject to such regulations for
the security of navigation of said river as the Secretary of War shall
Q‘jt,:g¥;‘f° P1°¤°· prescribe; and to secure that object the said company shall submit to
'the Secretary of War for his examination and approval a design and
drawing of the bridge and a map of location, giving, for the space of
one mile above and one mile below the proposed location, the topography of the banks of the river, the shore lines at high and low water,
the directions and strength of currents at all stages, and soundings
accurately showing the bed of the stream, and the location of any other
bridge or bridges, and shall furnish such other information as may be
required for a full and satisfactory understanding of the subject; and
until the said plan and location of the bridge are approved by the
—&lt;=*¤¤¤g¤¤· Secretary of War, the bridge shall not be commenced or built; and if
any change is required by the Secretary of War in the plan of said
bridge while the same is in progress of construction or after its completion, or if the entire removal of said bridge is required by him at
any time, the cost of sigh change; og removal shall be paid by the company owning or contro in said ri ge.
Am•&gt;¤&lt;i¤¤¤¤¤· Sec. 6. That the right tg alter or amend or repeal this Act i  hereby
expressly reserved.
w&lt;j_¤¤};*g,j,¤;°°¤¤¤*¤¤d Sec. 7. That this Act shall be null and void if actual construction of
Pthe bridge herein authorized be not commenced within one year and
completed within three years from the date hereof ·
Approved, April 21, 1898.
APYU ZL 1**98- CHAP. 184.-An Act To create a board of local inspectors of steam vessels for the
UU; customs district of Alaska.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
I-gags-fl cm States of America in Utmgress assembled, That section forty-four hun-
,,,,,,,,§‘,’v,‘Qs,,'Q1’,$,,,,,f drcd and fourteen of the Revised Statutes of the United States, as
8;*- @1 sg; 4414%;;- amended by the Act of Congress approved March iirst, eighteen huna,..;,,,d€.{_’ p‘ ’ dred and ninety-five, chapter one hundred and forty-six, third session
. Fifty-third Congress (page six hundred and ninety-nine, volume twenty-
eight, United States Statutes at Large), be amended by inserting the
word &quot;Alaska,” in the last line of the third paragraph of said Act,
after the word “Alabau1a” and preceding the word “and.&quot;
Approved, April 21, 1898.
Apr-ii 21, ises. CHAP. 185.-An Act To amend &quot;An Act authorizing the construction of a railway,
M N &quot; w“•·‘—‘ street-railway, motor, wagon, and pedestrian bridge over the Missouri River, near
(jouncil Bluffs, Iowa, and Omaha, Nebraska,&quot; and to extend the time for the completion of the bridge therein provided for. .
I' Be i thenacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
R§j;jl¤·¤§_j;f:¤{1;¤;;;;g; States of America in Congress assembled, That section eight of the Act
i;i..'a·s_ vlosva, ami entitled &quot;An Act authorizing the construction of a railway, street-
&quot;’{l*jf{fg,§;f§,, railway, motor, wagon, and pedestrian bridge over the Missouri River,
vin. er, p. 4:1 near Council Bluils, Iowa, and Omaha, Nebraska,&quot; as amended by an
Act aplproved .ga(puary twentyeighth, eighteen hundred and ninety-
three, e amenv e to read as follows:
,,§‘§§§;,.{§lf,,.‘{f’“*&quot;&quot;'°` &quot;SEC- 8- That this Act shall be null and void if construction or said
bridge shall not be commenced on or before the nrst day of January,
eighteen hundred and ninety-two, and be completed on or before the
/j»···»f·=·»»- iirst day of July, nineteen hundred and three: Provided, That the
,_,,{·,·;,jg;f{f’““‘-’i&quot;&quot;&quot;’ navigation of the Missouri River shall not be obstructed by false works
&gt;it¤ne¤l»¤~· ofme during the construction of the bridge: And providedfurther, That such
&quot;’·&quot;&quot;‘°·· guide piers or dikes as may be required by the Secretary of War tor&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 31.djvu/1831</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>518034</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133386</id>
      <parentid>8622718</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:45:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa  →  Iowa</comment>
      <origin>15133386</origin>
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      <text bytes="2835" sha1="ti1zjiv9bog4cwkl8teimfbl8ubkr6y" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;·FIFTY-SIXTH CONGRESS. Sess. II. CHS. 759-763. 1901. 1779
pension roll, subject to the provisions and limitations of the pension
aws, the name of Corinne R. Strickland, widow of Jesse H. Strickland,
late colonel Eighth Regiment Tennessee Volunteer Cavalry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of thirty dollars per inonth.
Approved, Marchl, 1901.
CHAP. 760.-An Act Granting an increase of pension to Selah V. Reeve. MMC11 r 1001-
Be it enacted by the Senate and House qf]i'{€l¢*esentative.s of t/le U1 ited 1
States of America in Congress assembled, at the Secretary of the §jlf;{Ol,·,f§g;;;eL,
Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to place on the `
pension roll, subject to the provisions and limitations of the pension
aws, the name of Selah V. Reeve, late captain, Company E, Sixty-
third Regiment New York Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension
at the rate of twenty-four dollars per month in lieu of that he is now
receiving.
Approved, March 1, 1901. _
CHAP. 761.—An Act Granting a pension to Samuel F. Radford. March 1. 1001-
Be it enacted by the Senate and House ofRe€resenta-tires of the United _ _ _
States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the §§;,§‘j;{gl,_*·R“‘1‘°’d-
Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to place o11 the
pension roll, subject to the provisions and limitations of the pension
laws, the name of Samuel `. Radford, late of Company K, Third
Regiment·North Carolina Volunteer Mounted Infantry, and pay him
a pension at the rate of twelve dollars per month.
Approved, March 1, 1901.
CHAP. 762.-An Act Granting an increase of pension to John Scott. N=11&quot;°1¤ 1» 1001-
Be it enacted by the Senate and 110use 0 f Rrizgresentatires of t/ae United _
States (gf America in Congress assembled, at the Secretary of the {.‘,§§§,§§‘}§§;,mS€_d_
Inteiior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to place on the
pension roll, subject to the provisions and limitations of the pension
laws, the name of John Scott, late of Company G, Fifth Regiment
Pennsylvania Volunteer Cavalry, and pay him a pension at the rate of
twenty-four dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
Approved, March 1, 1901.
CHAP. '763.—An Act Granting an increase of pension to Philetus M. Axtell. Marsh r 190*
Be it enacted by the Senate and House ofR'i£resentatives of t/te [nite-rl _
States of America in Cbngress assembled, at the Secretary of the  
Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to place on the
pension roll, subject to the provisions and limitations of the pension
laws, the name of Philetus M. Axtell, late of Company H, Second Regiment Iowa Volunteer Cavalry, and pay him a pension at the rate of
sixteen dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
Approved, March 1, 1901.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 34 Part 1.djvu/334</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>521829</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133389</id>
      <parentid>8629305</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:45:26Z</timestamp>
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        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tbe  →  the ,  lowa, →  Iowa,</comment>
      <origin>15133389</origin>
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      <text bytes="3698" sha1="auiv8tn0t1tgftbwp8nptncwq6cj7jf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;304 FIFTY-NINTH CONGRESS. Sess.' I. CHS. 3437, 3438. 1906.
June 19. 1906 CHAP. 3437.-An Act Transferring the county of Clinton, in the State of Iowa,
_ AIHQL 183**} _ A from the northern judicial district of Iowa to the southern judicial district of Iowa.
Public, No. 247.
[ 1 Be it enacted by the Senate and [[0/use af Representatives of the (limited
  States ofAme7·iea in Congress assembled, That the county ot Clinton,
I..w»,¤m¤¤ze¤mem¤§ in the State of Iowa, be, and the same IS hereby, transferred from the
·§§,‘,°§§{&quot; “’ °°““‘°&quot;“ northern judicial district of the United Statescircuit and district courts
R-Sa M- 557. v· 90. for the State of Iowa to the southern judxcial district of the United
°&quot;i$li.izd,'p.iv2. States circuit and district courts of the said State of Iowa, and that
the said county of Clinton be, and the same is hereby, made a part of
the Daven rt division of the said southern judicial district of Iowa. ·
v1vi1vr&lt;¤=•&gt;¤¤- Sec. 2. That all civil process issued against persons resident in the
said county of Clinton and cognizable before the United States courts
shall be made returnable to the courts, respectively, to be held at the
D,f&quot;:,‘j;,}Q,”°*'i°d °‘ city of Davenport, Iowa, and all prosecutions for offenses committed
` in said county of Clinton shall be tried in the appropriate United
§;‘,j'§,‘gk was M, States courts at the city of Davenport, Iowa: Provided, That no procaffccwd. ess issued or prosecution commenced or suit instituted before the
passage of this Act shall be in any way affected by the provisions
hereof, but the same shall be proceeded with and tried in the said
northern district.
Approved, June 19, 1906.
·'““°’ 1** 1906- CHAP. 3438.-An Act To r la e h ee in f em l n i in
__i ?%T District of Columbia where fees d§dlcliartge$llIorIi&gt;r&lt;iT1(iring d)ni)ril[d]yi1lhterItzi;?&gt;r(sii:i1atio£(i
c, c.»2 . Y
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of ltepresentatioes of tlae United
States of America in Congress assembled,
. DEFINITIONS.
l{_§;;gf(fyQ,Q;Y,fl“’;*g;]*; That the term person,_used in this and subsequent sections of this Act,
cn?. MMM when means also a corporation, partnership, company, or assoc1ation. 'lhe
M§€¥€ ch,,g€;;_ term en1ployment agent or agency means any person who procures,
D°“““*°“”· offers to procure, promises to procure, attempts to procure, or aids
in procurmg, either directly or indirectly, help or employment for
another, where any fee, remuneration, protit, or any consideration of
any nature whatsoever is romised, paid, or is received therefor, either
directly or indirectly. '[Phe term fee means every form or nature of
fee, remuneration, roiit, or consideration promised, paid, or received,
directly or indirectly, for any service of whatsoever nature performed,
offered to be performed, or promised to be performed by such employ-
ment agencies. The term applicant shall mean any person seeking
work, employment, or engagement of any legal character. The term
applicant for help shall mean any person or persons seeking help,
employees, or performers in any legitimate enterprise.
· LICENSES.
l·‘°°“”°“· Sec. 2. That no person shall conduct, temporarily or otherwise, any
employment agenciy or perform any of the acts authorized to be performed by an employment agency in the District of Columbia without
procuring a license from the Commissioners of the District of Columbia as herein provided.
APPLICATION ron LICENSE.
AP*&quot;‘°“&quot;°““ ‘°'· Sec. 3. That an application for a license must be made in writing in
the form prescribed by the Commissioners of the District of Colunr&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>auiv8tn0t1tgftbwp8nptncwq6cj7jf</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 34 Part 1.djvu/1235</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>522765</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133388</id>
      <parentid>8628665</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:45:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
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      <text bytes="4089" sha1="es08sksew1nacdkljw90qr28wigcrxa" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;FIFTY-NINTH CONGRESS. Srzss. II. Ch. 2513. 1907. 1205
GHAP. 2518.—An Act Making appropriations for the service of the Post-Office M¤1’¤h 2·1W'·
Department for the fiscal year ending June thirtietb, nineteen hundred and eight, lH‘ R` 25483*]
an for other purposes. [Public, No. 172.]
Bc it enacted by the Senate and House of R esenzfatwhzes of tlee United
States of America in Oongrese assembled, mt the following sums be, P¤ss¤1_ service upand they are hereby, appropriated for the service of the P0st—Office °“{£,T”§&quot;;f°50_
Department in conformity with the Act of July second, eighteen
hundred and, thirty-six, as follows: _
OFFICE OF THE POSTMASTER-GENERAL. P¤¤¢m¤¤t¤r·Gc¤ern1.
For advertising, five thousand dollars. Ad&quot;°“i¤*¤8·
Sammns or rosr-ormon msrnerons: For salaries of fifteen inspect- .,§°*&quot;'°m°° &quot;&quot;’°°“&quot;
ors in charge of divisions, at three thousand dollars each; ten “*'i°*
inspectors,.at two thousand four hundred dollars each; fifteen ins ctors, at two thousand two hundred and fifty dollars each; liilseeen
inspectors, at two thousand dollars each; ten inspectors, at one thousand eigbt hundred dollars each; one hundred and thirty inspectors,
at one thousand six hundred dollars each; one hundred and ten
inspectors, at one thousand four hundred dollars each; and seventy-
two ins tors, at one thousand two hundred dollars each; in all, tive
hundreclthd ninety-nine thousand one hundred and fifty dollars.
For per diem allowance of inspectors in the field while actually Perdim.
traveling on oficial business away from their home, their official domicile, an their headquarters, at a rate to be iixed by the Postmaster-
General, not to exceed four dollars per day, three hundred and fifty
thousand dollars: Provided, That the Postmaster-General may, in his $&amp;*¢·¤¤· mW_
discretion, allow inspectors per diem while temporarily located at any ummm
place on business away from their home, or their designated domicile,
or a period not exceeding twenty consecutive days at any one place,
and make rules and regulations governing the foregoing prov1sions
relating to per diem: Ami provided further, That no per diem shall be ¤¤¤*·
paid to inspectors receiving annual salaries of two thousand dollars or
more.
For com nsation to clerks and laborers at division head uarters, 9****- •&gt;¤·‘-· M di-
Eifteen, at dhce thousand six hundred dollars each; nine, at one tlhousand mm h°°dq`m&quot;m'
four hundred dollars each; twcnt seven, at one thousand two hun—
dred dollars each; eight. at one tlxousand one hundred dollars each;
thirteen, at one thousand dollars each; five at nine hundred dollars
each; and two. at six hundred and sixt dollars each: in ull, ninety-
six thousand six hundred and twenty dollars.
For traveling expenses of inspectors without per diem allowance, W£Q;j*ll¤¤¤· ¤¤·‘·· ¤¤·
inspectors in charge. and the chief post-office inspector, and expenses&quot;
incurred by inspectors not covered ry per diem a lowance, twenty-tive
thousand dollars.
For livery hire incurred by inspectors not covered by their per diem ¥·*V°*Y him
allowance. including livery hire in connection with the installation and
inspection of rural routes, sixty thousand dollars.
For necessary miscellaneous expenses at division headquarters, six Mi*°°“°“°°“*·
thousand dollars.
For payment of rewards for the detection, arrest, and conviction of R“&quot;'“&quot;*“· °*°·
post-oflice bur lars, robbers, and highway mail robbers. twenty thou— _
sand dollars: irovdded, That of the amount herein appropriated not giiiidiiiing mm-m.
to exceed two thousand dollars may be expended, in the discretion of ¤¤¤»¢¤¤-
the Postma.ster—Geneml, for the purpose of securing information concerning violations of the postal laws, and for services and information
looking toward the apprehension of criminals. O _ _ _ I p
To complete the wor of printing and blndm g the opinions of assistant A3g;;;Q}}Ee£;j;jf**“*
attorneys-general for the Post-Oifice Department, ten thousand dollars, `&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 34 Part 2.djvu/1399</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>524592</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133390</id>
      <parentid>8630471</parentid>
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        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
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      <minor />
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      <text bytes="3021" sha1="6mqj3cen6co1v4bbi0wx3t341h2hksp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;FIFTY—N1NTH CONGRESS. Sess. II. CHS. 2365-2369. 1907. 2717
laws, the name of dames T. Piplgott, late of Company F, One hundred
and sixteenth Regiment Ohio olunteer Infantry, and y him a pension at the rate of thirty dollars per month in lieu of £t he is now
receiving.
Approved, March 1, 1907 .
CHAP. 2366.-An Act Granting an increase of pension to Charl =: A. Woodward. i Hagen] 5%:5107.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of.R¥rresentatv}ves of the United [p¤vm,N¤.m4.]
States of America in 0'ongress assembled, That the Secretary of the Chun! A wma_
Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to place on the wm. '
pension roll, subject to the provisions and limitations of the Kpension P°&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;°‘°'°““°°‘
aws, the name of Charles A. Woodward, late of Company , Third
Regiment California Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at the
rate of thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
Approved, March 1, 1907. _
CEA}?. 2387.-An Act Granting an increase of pension to William Booth.  
Bettenacted by the Senate and House of Rentatives of the United lPr1v•¤¤.N&lt;»·¤¤’~I
States of Amerixr in Omzgess assemblbd, Ki the Secretary of the www B0,,,,_
Interior be, and he is here , authorized and directed to place on the P¤¤¤i¤¤ i¤&lt;=¤·¢¤¤¤-
pension roll, subject to the piwisions and limitations of the pension
laws, the name of William th, late second lieutenant Company C,
Second Regiment Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a peusion at the rate of thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now
receiving.
Approved, March 1, 1907.
CHAP. 2368.-—~An Act Granting an increase of pension to George W. Hapgood. M¤{§l¤,’gé33Y'·
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United IP¤·iv¤¤¤. No- ZM-1
States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the GW cw_&quot;,,,_,,,m_
Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to place on the ¤’¤¤;I&lt;··¤ i¤•-r¤·~»&lt;¤*-
nsion roll, subject to the `provisions and limitations of the pension
laews, the name of Georpe . Hapgood, late of Company D, Sixty-
fourth Regiment New ork Volunteer Infantry and Company ,
Second Regiment New York Volunteer Mounted ltiiles, and pay him
a pension at the rate of thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is
now receiving.
Approved, March 1. 1907.
CHAP. 2369.-An Act Granting an increase of pension to Warren M. Fales. Mafgliigé-9i??.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representall ves of the U nited [Private, No. 2207.]
States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the www), Fam
Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to place on the Pension nimuéa
ension roll, subject to the provisions and limitations of the pension
lhws, the name of Warren M. F ales, late of Company I, Sixt Regiment Iowa Volunteer Infantry, and pay him a pension at the rate of
thirty dollars per month in lieu of that he is now receiving.
Approved, March 1, 1907.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 36 Part 1.djvu/1511</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>527338</id>
    <revision>
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      <text bytes="5526" sha1="8dn6l0ubnor0gk2fc3tya1cg4trra78" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;XXV1il INDEX.
Brazos River, Tex., Pwi BnZ¢1ges—Cqntinucd. _ P“g°·
appmpriacion for constructing waterway constrqcuon pf, authorized across Connectbetween Matagorda. Bay and ... 650 1011il BIVCT, OOUH ------·---·---·-- 228
for improvement of, from Velasco to Old Copper R1V€1‘, Alaska ---· - -·-·----··-· 263
Washington _____ _ ______________ 650, 944 Cumberland Rwer, Term .. . 185
Old Washington to Waco, Lock and Current; Rlviél', Ark --·-...·-----·-----· 195
· Dam N0_ 8 _______ _ _______ _ _______ 650, 945 Delaware RIVGI  . . . . 959
for improvement of mouth of .. . . . . 944 Escambm. Bay, E12. . . . . ._ .. 233
preliminary examination of, to be made. . . 675 Gf&amp;HdC&amp;lUm8tR1V€I, East Chicago, Ind. 178
B gum mouth to Waco _____,,,,.,____,_,_ 955 g1iI1Ii1)(gDd,t II1&lt;%.&amp;  . ~ 468  
rea , e un , I1 .,,. ,
duty 011, not specially provided for  36 Green River, gzy  . ..---.·- 852
sweetened, gte ..,,,_____,_,,,__ , , , , 36 H1W38S€(? River, Tenn . 187
Bread Knives, KOOKGDKI Rwqr, Idaho .. .  192, 855
duty on _ ______ . ...,_,___,.._____,__ 27 Lake Champlam, Alburg to Swanton, Vt. 1358
Breakuiy, Lake Jessup, Fla .. 330
no 3 lowance for, 011 imported wines, etc. . 40 Little Calumet River, III .. 178
Breccia, Lumber River,·N. C  178
duty on monuments, etc . . .. . . - . 21 M3$t3WOIH3H Creek, Md  1086
Bremzrtcm, Wash. (scc Puget Sound Navy Mgnprqiuqe River, Mic};. and Wis.   . 350, 868
Yard, Wash). _ MISSISSIPPI Rxver, A.1tkm County, Mmn. 180
Brewer, David J., Late Justwc of Suprenw Bass Brook, Mum ... 190
Court of the United States, Bemidji, Mixm .. 262
deficiency appropriation for widow of;  799 · Blackbeniy, Mkpé ...,.. 910
Briar Root, Briar Wood, etc., Minneapo is, Mimi . . . . . 179, 187, 187, 193
Bggxty ou, unmamifactured, cut into blocks. 33 :%Ifi0liI16, Ill., be Bqtgcndorf, Iowa. . . . . 464
,   ‘ or,   .. .  958
pnxagshment for attempting by, to secure Saint aul, Minn , , ,,.,,_,.. 907
  in rates,_ etc., by Missouri River, Arrow Rock, M0 ,.. 600
shippers .. 550 Atchison, Kaus. . . ._,... 905
of customs officials, ctc  103 Chamberlain, S. Ds.}; _____ , , ,,_______, 993
burden of proof . 103 Saint Charles, Mu .__,,__ _ ____,_______ 690
of officials in customs cases .,... 103 Sible , Mo ____ _ ______________ _ _____ 239
Brick, Mobile £ay, Ala, __________________ _ _ _ 369
duty on, iirc  17 Mobile River, Mqbi1e,‘Ala _____________ 953
0T»}191' $11311 CFB ---· - -..-·----·--·.. 17 Mouongahela. River, McKeesport; to
Bridgeport, Corrm., Mifflin, Pa ________________________ 822
appropriation for improvement of harbor- 633, 729 Morgantown, W_ Va _________________ 195
preliminary examination of harbor to be New Geneva, Pa . . ... 188
_ made . 669 Wilson to Glasgport, Pg, ______________ 195
Bndgeport, Wash., _ Morris and Cumming Channel, Aransas ·
budge authorized acrggg Columbm River 31; 293 P555, Tg; __________ _ _ ___________ 324, 588
Bridger National Foresq, Wyo., Noxubca River, Noxubee County, Miss. *178
ggpmpriation for maintenance, etc., of  1247 Okan n River, Defflins Ferry, Waah.. 294
· B gev, Omg? Wash ... 180
uppmpriatjqn fur constructing, across Little Ouachita River, Ark ______________ , 178 1013
Cglgmdo Rxver, Tm;mgr’5 (jrggging, Pglmgrg River, R_ I_ _ ___________ _ ____ , 300
Ariz .. 1062 Pearl River, Miss. ... · . 179
for constructing two, across Rio Grande, Pend d’Or0i11e River, Wash .   _ l - . 179
at Indian pueblos, N. Mex . 1062 Perdido Bay, Fla. and Ala . - . . - 415
deécieucy apgropriation for, across Du- Piscataqua. River, N. H.. . · _ · · · l 1362
chgsne iver, Mytxm, Utah  124 Red Lake River, MiDH...;: .   - _ . I I 958
constructmn Of, authorized acrggg Ajlg. Red River, Qklg _____ _ { ________ · - I - - - 189
A aéhiny iiigzn Pahé --·--- - ---·----- 179 Shreveport, La -·---.·..--··· XIII; 961
p c ico a Iver,  233 Red Riv I j
Arkansas River, Little Rock to Argcnta, N. Dgkfjf.  -   3* - .I?myt°°’ 894
· Pi*3;kE1&quot;f}'K;E&quot; '`'' &quot;° '`'`''' &quot;&quot;'   R_FaégO7 §` Dak&quot;' `''' '''‘‘'''‘’    
U » ·---·---·------- . . · 10 e D ·
Van Buren be Fort Smith, Ark .. . 229 b;11§--.;. . F3 ? Taxa to Mexican 853
Black River branch of Savannah River, El Oro Tex. to    
‘ Savannah, Ga . 180 Mexico  i A L ’ 853
Bayou Bnrthoiogncwy Ark ----- - ---·.·» 179 Lnrcdo, Ton.- - io niiiiono l `iiéiiééibi
Barren River, ky .. 852 Mexico . . . . . 188
Bcring River, Alaska ..---. 1360 Saint Croix River, Minn and Wio · _ · - t 263
Bkick River, Pafoquct, Ark ------·----- 198 Saint Croix ond Washington Coniiiion
Poplar BluH’ Mg _______ _ ________ _ _ _ _ _   · “`iS___ _ _ _ ____ _ __________ _ _ _    
Pow-honfgw, Ark; ..---·- 178 § Saint Francis River Fisk Mo _ _ U ,352
Calumet River, Chicago, 111 . . .. 180 \ Fisk and Saint F{ancis’Arl{.i· l _   I _ - 179
Chaylgg Rlvgy, BIa$ ____ _ _ ______________ 933   Pa;-kin, AI·k__ ________ ’ · i _ · _ · l - 199
Choctnwhnichoo Rwcr, Fla -·-··-·-...-- 233 § Saint Joseph River Mich ''·''`-'-`-·_' 243
Columbm Rwgr, Bndgeporig, Wash ,____ 293 X Saint; Marys River ’Ga n . · i t - _ · · _ I · · 855
Grant and Iuttitas ouutws .. 600 ; Saline River A1-k.’... U · . U l l . · . _ { -4 · ~ 179
HGH GSR. W9-Sh -·----·-----—·-··.-·. 415 é Snake River; Ontario.   t   A U l · A . l _ 179
bmrthlport, {Nash .. _ .. 1 am Payette, make  Z .  QZZZZZZZZ 1351
`(}01u3;li&gt;i1;,:) giver and Cehlo Canal, I South Branch of Mississippi River .. 964
, mg ... _  230 Stockton Canal, Cal  . ... 601&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 36 Part 1.djvu/1691</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>527519</id>
    <revision>
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      <text bytes="5912" sha1="7cfud4ow7zzym3voy4hfip1jlel1dw0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;ccvm IN DEX.
Public Buildings—C0¤tinu0d. P¤8¤- Public Bu@ld@ng3-—COHt1¤¤€d· _ P°g°‘
appropriation for Richfield, Utah .,... 1380 appropngtxon for Tugelo, M1s¤  - - - 1383
for Richmond, Va  L . 706,1380 for Twin Falls, Ida 0 ---·----·--·--·--- 1383
rent ___________________.._,_____. 706, 1380 for Union, S. C ..-·--~------ - - - - 1383
ici Roanoke, Va  706 for Umon Guy, Tenn ----·-»—-----·-·-- 1383
mnt __________________ _ _____________ 706 for Urbana, 1 1.*  . -·.--- - ··-· 1383
sm- Robinson, 111 ,,.,,_., 1380 for Urbana, Ohm ..------------- -- — 1383
for Rochester, Pa .., 1380 for Uuca, N . Y . . -·------·--------- 1383
for Rock mma, 111 .._.,... 1380 for Uvalde, [Fox .-- · ---------·-- 1383
muh _________________ _ __________ 706, 1380 for Valley City,   Dak . 1383
for Rockville, Conn  .  1380 for V§I1C0\1V€!', Wash --·-···-··—- · ·—-·-· 1383
for Rocky Mount, N. G .. 1380 for V;c1&lt;sl;urglL MM .·-----·--·--·------· 1383
for Rome, G3,_ ______ _ _ ____, , , _,____. . . . 1381 {0]* V]Ct·0l'l2., GX ..··- - ·~-··--· · -··- · 1383
for Roggburg, Omg ____,___ . ...,___, 1381 for Wvabasll, 1-Hd .-··- · ·-·-- · · · - ~ 1383
for Roswell, N. Mex ... .  706, 1381 for Wahoo, Nebr ---·------- · ·-·---·-·-·· 1383
for Rumford Falls, M0 . . . . . 1381 fol' W8hP€€0¤, N - Dak ·-····-·--··-- · - - 1383
for Sacmmento, Cal  .  706, 1381 for Wall?. Walla, Wash .------·--·--- - - — 1383
for Saint Louis, Mo., customhouse .. 1381 for Wallmgford, Conn -·-·-··-·-----·- · - · 1383
post office . . .. 706, 1381 for Waltham, Mass ·-··,..---·-· 1383
gubtrgag ____________,...,_,,,. . . . 1381 for Warrgnton, Va . . . . . 1383
for Salem, Lggjo  . .. . . 1381 fo1‘ W8Bb1Dgt0H, D: C., BU!‘€8l1 of E¤g¥’8·V‘
for Salina, Kam; _,_____,,,. . ,..__,,.. . - 707 ing and Prmtmg; vaults. . ._  1383
for Salisbury, N. C _,,__,,.,.,.,. 1381 Decpartments of State, Jushcc, and
for Salt Lake Cit , Utah  ; ... 707, 1381 »ommcrce and Labor  . - . 1384
for San Angelo, 'lxrcx  707, 1381 post 0506 .. .  1384
for San Antonio, Tax . .  . 707 for Washington, Ind. . ¤ ..-. 1384
for San Bcrmudiuo, Cal. ... 1381 for Washington, Iowa ... 1384
for San Diego, Cal .. 707, 1381 for Washington, N. C ... 1384
for San Francisco, Cal., subtrcasury . 1381 for Waterloo, N. Y., use of balance from
for San J uau, P. R . 1381 Homell ... .  707
for Santa Barbara, Cal . .  1381 for Waterville, Me . 1384
for Santa Cruz, Cal .. . ... 707, 1381 for Waukegan, Ill ..., . . 1334
for Saratoga Springs, N. Y .. 707 for Waupun, Wis .. 1384
for Sault Sainte Marie, Mich . . .. 707 for Waxahachic, Tex ... .  707, 1384
for Savanna, I ll . . .. 1381 for Waycross, Ga  1384
for Schenectady, N. Y  .  1381 for Waynesboro, Va ... .  1384
for Seattle, Wash., post-office ... 1381 for Wa mosvillc, N. C ... - ,.,,,_,.,, 1384
for Seymour, Com: . 1381 for We-zlib City, Mo ..,_. , ..,. 1334
for Seymour, Ind ... 1381 for Wellsburg, W. Va ...,,_,,.,, 1384
for Shamokin, Pa . .  1381 for Wenatchee Wash  1 .,,_,,,,,, 1384
for Shelby, N. C  . ... 1381 for Wastorl   I . . ..,,_______, 3334
for Shelbgglille, Ky  1382 for Westfielyel`, Maas ,_,,_,,,_,,__________ 1334
for Sheri , WE0 .. 707, 1382 for West Point, Miss .,..,,,____,___ 1384
for Shreveport, :1 .. .  707, 1382 for Wichita Falls, Tex ,,,,, , ,,,, 1384
rent  : ..·-... 707 for Wilkesbcro, N. C ..,,, , _,,__, 1334
for Sidney, 01110 .. .  1382 for Williamson, W, Va ___,_____________ 1384
for Sioux Falls, S. Dak . 1382 for Williston, N, Duk ,,__,__,__________ 1384
rent  1382 for Wilmington Del ,_,,___,________ _ _ _ 707
for Skowhegan, Mc . 1382 for \ViI3on, N, (5 _,_____,__________ _ _____ 1384
for Smyrna., Dol  . .  .  1382 for Winchester, Ky ,,_, _ _,,,,______ _ ____ 1334
for Somerset, Ky .. 1382 for Winchester Tenn .,,,,,,,,, 1384
for South Bethlehem, Pa  . . . 1382 {Oi- Wiiifiq-pld, Kam _____________________ 1385
fvr South B0¤§0l1, V3 ..·-- . . 1382 for Winston Salem, N, C ,,,,,__________ 138,5
{O! Sparta, WIS . ° 1382 for Woodbury, N_ J ____________ _ ________ 1385
fol' Spf?-;1FE8ld, M0  . . . .. 1382 for \Voonso(;·ket, R, I _______ _ _______ _ 707 1385
fo!' $3 01*d. C0¤¤ --.·.-·-···-·. · - - 1382 for Yoakum, Tex .,...,. , ,___ _ _____ ’ 1385
foI‘ Sl8.mfOl’d, Tex  . .. 1382 for Yonkers, N_ Y ______ _ ________ _ ____ _ 1385
fo!' Statosboro G8 ...-. . . 1382. for York, P3 ________ _ _____,__ _ __________ 1385
fO!' ST»€9lt0l1, #2.  . .. . .  .  . . 1382 for Ypgilantiy Minh _________ _ _ _________ 1385
fol’ Steubenville, Ohio . . . . . 1382 for repairs and prgggwation_ ________ 708 1385
for Suffolk, Va .. . .. 1382 {ur special repairs Tmasm-y building, Dis. ’
for Sycamore, Ill .. 1382 trict of Columbia, mid gubtygasuyy
T0! SYIBCUSG, N. Y ... . .. 1382 New York City ___________ _ _____ __; 708
f&lt;&gt;f Talladega, Ala -··-·----------...---- 1382 for mechanical equipment for héaliiig,
for Tarboro, N. C.-  . ...,... 1382 hoisting, etc _______ _ ____________ 708 1385
fo1' Tafentllm, P8 ~-...--·-. .  1382 for vaults, safes, and locks ______ ____ _ 708,1385
for Taylorsville. In--  · ··--·. . . . . . . . -   fol'   fotggtign of vau]t8_ __ _    
for Texarkana, Tex  707 for elec tricalp bui~g1ai·-3ia;m, Treasury ’
{or &quot;f_£omaf{vilIe,   .B . . ... 1382 building ,_________ _ __________ _ _____ 1386
or rec ivers, ic ... . . . 1382 for additional to Su wig Arch];
fo1' (HHH, 01110 ...·-··. 1382 tact . ...,,     _____   _ _   _ _ mg 1386
for Titusville, Pa. . 1383 for general expguggs, skilled employees ’
for Toledo, Ohio ... 707 etc., officg of Supervising Archii
{or gopeka, I(‘;2}ns.M. .H  1383 f wet . - ..__,______ _ _________ 708 1386
or raverse .1ty, ic . . .. 1383 or su riutendents, ’ to , _ ’
io: ’1‘u¢.·¤¤¤, Ariz  - ... 1383 bupilidiugg ,,,_____ _ _ _' _____   _  j   1386&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7cfud4ow7zzym3voy4hfip1jlel1dw0</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 37 Part 2.djvu/1015</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>531982</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133396</id>
      <parentid>8640362</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:45:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa  →  Iowa</comment>
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      <text bytes="4170" sha1="jd0htcap1kimgdph7z9fgjz5y2wcjqq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;INDEX. 1957
lliuourt Rivrr—Oontin¤•d. Pen Habib B•2C•ntam:hl Celebration Pan.
preliminary exammation of, to be made at ecknowledgnent by Congrem of resolu-
.   City  . . . 229 tion y Alabama Legislative relating
examination modilied . . ... 825 to  1453
Saint Joseph, Mo . 229 Hooley, Howard, alien Hound Elle,
reconstruction of bridge over, Sibley, Mo., nsmn increased  - ... 1267
authorised . 55 iaagley, James,
time extended for bridging, Council Blum, increased  1228
Iowa- . , . _ . 123  y·ry,
Weldon Springs Landing, Mo ... 1014 Hpenston increased  . ... 1145
Yankton, S. ak; . 2 ..., 357 oblo, George, cha; George Cook,
1%'ss0uriWe:¢ernIudt¢iqlDia¢ne¢, Ipensionincressed  =... 1129
counties constituting; division; .. 52 0uelmy,_Pgtv,
terms, Chillicothe ... ,  52 aspropnatxon lor reimbursement to .. 524
ged]?-son City .   co, Cal.,“f bh bm]
op  acquiringln or pu 'c dmg' at, author-
Kansas C't ... 52 iaed .. Z  877
san: Josglpgi .. sz um Jvageqmx pm, ca., ‘
Spnn¥§?l    .  gg Hzppgolggztnon for maintenance, etc., of.. 284, 840
offices o c er ... , ,
marshal  . .,.., .  52 union increased  1045
Jfitchcll, A. C. , lat¢aReprtsmtati1zs€n Congress, £,;'att, Gqoryc,
deiicienfy appropriation for pay to widow 616      .. 1307
o . 0 att, W . ,
yudlell, A 3,, pension increased  1413
nsion    1051 l'¤tt_, Samuel,
Mpeghell, dlvira F. (widow), {muon inueased  1222
nswn increased  1356 0}% AROUM W,
ymjwll, Aww 17;, lpensron increased  1182
Ensglon  .. _ .. 1079 oja, 1:1;:; (wiobu), · 1214
, -, M10 _,,,...,,_______,____,__
.&amp;&amp;.,1“°‘2’°J‘“..,.”;§°“1‘$&quot;·‘?‘z‘a;2&quot;T1 ‘‘‘‘‘‘‘‘‘‘‘ “°” ”;¤..»&quot;’·°£°{.?&quot;¤»··.r¤`&quot;’ me
'IL , .•·-••-•»-••-.··•-·•-••.
¤¤ié¤mcré»5'?...ir...1 . mz ¤1u¤,Jorm11.
Hpughell, Jmm, Ohio National Guard, Ipsmmn increased . .,. . 1102
mnsgm  ... 1226 ok, [cfg, 1221
gm _ on .. . .
·’ ·em.,d,{ ,,..,...,,_,.. was   · ,0u.mm;,
y.5$,1:;£n};*?,,j3,;d 5_, a propriation for compensation in lieu of.. 434
nsion increased  1034 Hogelumne Eivrr, Qui.,
lair, Jacob U., appropriation for improvement ol .. . . 818
union increased.  . . ...,. 1097 Jreliminary examination ol, to be madsu _ 825
1£ .Paroon B.,   Qridg¢_C'ornpony,
nsion increased ... .  1357 may bridge muippi River ... .  310
lgzeon, John C., Holim, Ill., _ _ _ _ _ _
nsion increased .. . . 1133 bridge authorised across lhssrssnppx River,
lvm; ‘ to Bettsndort, Iowa ... 310
’ pim&quot; (&quot;”d°'”)’ mz rama Jam w
peusmn .. , _ .,
N nbnali est, N ., nnontncrgssed .. .. 1205
;?;:0p:i‘.¤tionfo;,rmaintne11’a¤ce, etc., of. . 284, 840 irloruy, [amok,
Ip;-oclamatien modifying boundaries of . 1722 xpenswn mcrnsed. ,...,., 1031
bf » U ·, _ _ . ¤Mh¢¤_ . _R¤\¤d.
gn1agem:ntelpub1iebuild1ngat,auth¤r- 869      1203
labile,     acqui] niteand erectingpublic building
approprnath on for improvement ol bar.. . 211, 810 at autbgzed  ,  876
or nm vement ol hubcr ... 211, 810   Commmon, Nctgonol,
for pom building . 422 hbnry cl,_l¤qde Fart of Ienbrary of Congreg, 364
uma; ol cost increased, public building&quot;. 866 ‘¤1&gt;p¤&gt;1¤¤•*-3  —----·--- I- ·- 1%
preliminary  llt0b0¤'|ldBd 824 1'¢P¤f¢.€§¢~·d P¤¤ -··-·-·-·   30
harbor and ·-·--... _ ·..~...
‘  I , D. C.,
uternmolcourtatu.;  600 ¤·n¢yI4’t»•;!l:\{“i_“i¤8H- I fmewust
rorlationdor t¤ing,ctc .. 127,872 moretlunepacsntrntssst .. 657
  Ala %nq0nd¤·{Di¤ision,Po•g0,ferD¤par¤r••n¢,
apprepzition lor improvement of chanel appropriation for superintendent, claks,
‘ oouneetingllisiinippi Sound and. 211, 811 etc, . , . Z  402, 7w
project medlned .      lfzney  im  Snu, 552, 800
.»¤.?;.’c“é§§.'{‘.f.?Id’.L€'a“.'.fa ¢¤...§&quot;.¤...;i;a .¤‘i‘22?..&quot;3?». M 231 as;.;.3q,1m,
for bridges, etc., Dauphin Island. . . 137 not to be , etc.; retention as
1&gt;~1i¤¤i¤¤ry ¤=¤¤¤i¤·¢i&lt;&gt;¤ ¤¤ 1&gt;• ¤¤•d· fw rewd ·----·-·--.--.----·--··- 915
  waterway from Perneula S23 Honeypgigfasnq, 1168
Y ...,..••·-••-••-•••••••¤ ••·.•··.-··...
87618**-·vox. 37-rr 2—-N&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Author:John Mason Neale</title>
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      <text bytes="2903" sha1="fqr1rt40dyjlp8y1vumqebzz6idkr0j" xml:space="preserve">{{author
 | firstname    = John Mason 
 | lastname     = Neale
 | last_initial = Ne
 | description  = English priest, scholar and hymn-writer.
 }}

==Works==
* ''[[Mediæval Hymns and Sequences]]'', 1851, with later edition 1867
* ''The Bible, and the Bible only, the religion of Protestants'' (1852) {{ssl|The Bible, and the Bible only}}
* ''[[Carols for Christmas-tide]]'', 1853, with [[Author:Thomas Helmore|Thomas Helmore]]
** &quot;[[Good King Wenceslas]]&quot;
* ''[[Carols for Easter-tide]]'', 1854, with [[Author:Thomas Helmore|Thomas Helmore]]
* ''Mediæval Preachers and Mediæval Preaching,'' 1856 {{IA small link|medivalpreach00neal}}
* ''[[The Lewes Riot, its causes and its consequences]]'', 1857
* ''Notes, ecclesiological and picturesque, on Dalmatia, Croatia, Istria, Styria, with a visit to Montenegro'' (1861) {{small scan link|Notes ecclesiological and picturesque.djvu}}
* ''[[Hymns Ancient and Modern]]'', 1861
* ''[[Hymns of the Eastern Church]]'', 1865
* [[A song for the times]]
* [[Ho! Steward, bid my servants]]

===Translations===
* &quot;[[Stars of the Morning]]&quot; by [[Author:Joseph the Hymnographer|Joseph the Hymnographer]], ??
* &quot;[[When the earth, with spring returning]]&quot;, anon.
* ''The Symbolism of Churches and Church Ornaments'', the first book of ''Rationale Divinorum Officiorum'', by [[Author:Guillaume Durand|Guillaume Durand]], translated by John Mason Neale and [[Author:Benjamin Webb|Benjamin Webb]], 1843
* In ''Mediæval Hymns and Sequences'', 1851
** &quot;[[Be Present, Ye Faithful (Neale)|Be Present, Ye Faithful]]&quot;, {{anon|anonymous}}
** &quot;[[O sons and daughters, let us sing]]&quot; by [[Author:Jean Tisserand|Jean Tisserand]]
** &quot;[[Vexilla Regis]]&quot; by [[Author:Venantius Fortunatus|Venantius Fortunatus]]
* In ''The Hymnal Noted'', 1852
** &quot;[[Before the ending of the day]]&quot; attr. [[Author:Ambrose of Milan|Ambrose of Milan]]
** &quot;[[All Glory, Laud, and Honor]]&quot; by [[Author:Theodulf|Theodulf]]
* In ''Hymns Ancient and Modern'', 1861
** &quot;[[O come, O come, Emmanuel]]&quot;, {{anon|anonymous}}
* &quot;[[The Day of Resurrection]]&quot; by [[Author:John of Damascus|John of Damascus]], 1862
* &quot;[[The Alleluiatic Sequence]]&quot; by [[Author:Gottschalk|Gottschalk]], 1863
* In ''Hymns of the Eastern Church'', 1865
** &quot;[[Safe Home in Port]]&quot; by [[Author:Joseph of Thessalonica|Joseph of Thessalonica]]
* &quot;[[Stabat Mater Speciosa]]&quot; by [[Author:Jacopone da Todi|Jacopone da Todi]], 1866
* ''[[The Celestial Country]]'' by [[Author:Bernard of Cluny|Bernard of Cluny]], 1899
** &quot;[[Jerusalem the Golden]]&quot;, excerpt of this poem used as a hymn
* &quot;[[The World's Famous Orations/Volume 7/The Divine Tragedy|The Divine Tragedy]]&quot; by [[Author:Pierre Abélard|Pierre Abélard]], 1906
* &quot;[[The Moral Concordances of Saint Anthony of Padua]]&quot;, 1856

==Works about Neale==
* {{oxon link|Neale, John Mason|1846}}
* {{DNB link|Neale, John Mason}}
* {{EB1911 link|Neale, John Mason}}

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 | lastname     = Neale
 | last_initial = Ne
 | description  = English priest, scholar and hymn-writer.
 }}

==Works==
* ''[[Mediæval Hymns and Sequences]]'', 1851, with later edition 1867
* ''The Bible, and the Bible only, the religion of Protestants'' (1852) {{ssl|The Bible, and the Bible only.djvu}}
* ''[[Carols for Christmas-tide]]'', 1853, with [[Author:Thomas Helmore|Thomas Helmore]]
** &quot;[[Good King Wenceslas]]&quot;
* ''[[Carols for Easter-tide]]'', 1854, with [[Author:Thomas Helmore|Thomas Helmore]]
* ''Mediæval Preachers and Mediæval Preaching,'' 1856 {{IA small link|medivalpreach00neal}}
* ''[[The Lewes Riot, its causes and its consequences]]'', 1857
* ''Notes, ecclesiological and picturesque, on Dalmatia, Croatia, Istria, Styria, with a visit to Montenegro'' (1861) {{small scan link|Notes ecclesiological and picturesque.djvu}}
* ''[[Hymns Ancient and Modern]]'', 1861
* ''[[Hymns of the Eastern Church]]'', 1865
* [[A song for the times]]
* [[Ho! Steward, bid my servants]]

===Translations===
* &quot;[[Stars of the Morning]]&quot; by [[Author:Joseph the Hymnographer|Joseph the Hymnographer]], ??
* &quot;[[When the earth, with spring returning]]&quot;, anon.
* ''The Symbolism of Churches and Church Ornaments'', the first book of ''Rationale Divinorum Officiorum'', by [[Author:Guillaume Durand|Guillaume Durand]], translated by John Mason Neale and [[Author:Benjamin Webb|Benjamin Webb]], 1843
* In ''Mediæval Hymns and Sequences'', 1851
** &quot;[[Be Present, Ye Faithful (Neale)|Be Present, Ye Faithful]]&quot;, {{anon|anonymous}}
** &quot;[[O sons and daughters, let us sing]]&quot; by [[Author:Jean Tisserand|Jean Tisserand]]
** &quot;[[Vexilla Regis]]&quot; by [[Author:Venantius Fortunatus|Venantius Fortunatus]]
* In ''The Hymnal Noted'', 1852
** &quot;[[Before the ending of the day]]&quot; attr. [[Author:Ambrose of Milan|Ambrose of Milan]]
** &quot;[[All Glory, Laud, and Honor]]&quot; by [[Author:Theodulf|Theodulf]]
* In ''Hymns Ancient and Modern'', 1861
** &quot;[[O come, O come, Emmanuel]]&quot;, {{anon|anonymous}}
* &quot;[[The Day of Resurrection]]&quot; by [[Author:John of Damascus|John of Damascus]], 1862
* &quot;[[The Alleluiatic Sequence]]&quot; by [[Author:Gottschalk|Gottschalk]], 1863
* In ''Hymns of the Eastern Church'', 1865
** &quot;[[Safe Home in Port]]&quot; by [[Author:Joseph of Thessalonica|Joseph of Thessalonica]]
* &quot;[[Stabat Mater Speciosa]]&quot; by [[Author:Jacopone da Todi|Jacopone da Todi]], 1866
* ''[[The Celestial Country]]'' by [[Author:Bernard of Cluny|Bernard of Cluny]], 1899
** &quot;[[Jerusalem the Golden]]&quot;, excerpt of this poem used as a hymn
* &quot;[[The World's Famous Orations/Volume 7/The Divine Tragedy|The Divine Tragedy]]&quot; by [[Author:Pierre Abélard|Pierre Abélard]], 1906
* &quot;[[The Moral Concordances of Saint Anthony of Padua]]&quot;, 1856

==Works about Neale==
* {{oxon link|Neale, John Mason|1846}}
* {{DNB link|Neale, John Mason}}
* {{EB1911 link|Neale, John Mason}}

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    <title>Page:Life of William Blake, Gilchrist.djvu/92</title>
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      <text bytes="1966" sha1="e1oa0hm19buxbd3pss70pryfs4583ed" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Hesperian&quot; /&gt;
{{running header|60|{{smaller|LIFE OF WILLIAM BLAKE.}}|{{smaller|[1787.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;engraved a good deal after Stothard, in a style which evinces a common Master with Blake as well as companionship with him: in particular, the very fine designs, among Stothard's most masterly, to the ''[[The Vicar of Wakefield|Vicar of Wakefield]]'' (1792), which are very admirably engraved; also most of those of [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]] ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]'' (1795). After Flaxman, he executed several of the plates to [[Author:Homer|Homer's]] ''Iliad''; after Smirke, ''The Commemoration of'' 1797; after Northcote, ''The Revolution of'' 1688, and others; and for Boydell's ''Shakspeare'', eleven plates. He died 'about 1805,' according to the Dictionaries.

Blake quitted Broad Street for neighbouring Poland Street: the long street which connects Broad Street with Oxford Street, and into which Great Marlborough Street runs at right angles. He lodged at No. 28 (now a cheesemonger's shop, boasting three brass bells), not many doors from Oxford Street on the right-hand side, going towards that thoroughfare; the houses at which end of the street are smaller and of later date than those between Great Marlborough and Broad Street. Henceforward Mrs. Blake, whom he carefully instructed, remained his sole pupil—sole assistant and companion too; for the gap left by his brother was never filled up by children. In the same year—that of Etty's birth (March, 1787) amid the narrow streets of distant antique York—his friend Flaxman exchanged Wardour Street for Rome, and a seven years' sojourn in Italy. Already educating eye and mind in his own way, Turner, a boy of twelve, was hovering about Maiden Lane, Covent Garden, in which the barber's son was born: some half mile—of (then) staid and busy streets—distant from Blake's Broad Street; Long Acre, in which Stothard first saw the light, lying between the two.
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{{running header|{{smaller|ÆT. 47—48.]}}|{{smaller|LETTERS TO HAYLEY.}}|209}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Hayley's slowly progressing ''Life'', as the following letters show:—

&lt;div style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;
{{right|{{smaller|''May'' 4''th'', 1804.}}}}

{{smallcaps|Dear Sir, }}

I thank you sincerely for [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer]], an admirable Poet, and the admirable prints to it by Pettier. Whether you intended it or not, they have given me some excellent hints in engraving; his manner of working is what I shall endeavour to adopt in many points. I have seen the elder Mr. Walker. He knew and admired without any preface, my print of Romney, and when his daughter came in he gave the print into her hand without a word, and she immediately said, 'Ah! Romney! younger than I have known him, ''but very like indeed''.' Mr. Walker showed me Romney's first attempt at oil painting; it is a copy from a Dutch picture—Dutch boor smoking; on the back is written, 'This was the first attempt at oil painting by G. Romney.' He shew'd me also the last performance of Romney. It is of Mr. Walker and family, the draperies put in by somebody else. It is a very excellent picture, but unfinished. The figures as large as life, half length, Mr. W., three sons, and I believe two daughters, with maps, instruments, &amp;c. Mr. Walker also shew'd me a portrait of himself (W.), whole length on a canvas about two feet by one and a half; it is the first portrait Romney ever painted. But above all, a picture of ''Lear and Cordelia'',' when he awakes and knows her,—an incomparable production which Mr. W. bought for five shillings at a broker's shop; it is about five feet by four, and exquisite for expression, indeed it is most pathetic; the heads of Lear and Cordelia can never be surpassed, and Kent and the other attendant are admirable; the picture is very highly finished. Other things I saw of Romney's first works,—two copies, perhaps from Borgognone, of battles; and Mr. Walker promises to collect all he can of information for you. I much admired his mild and gentle, benevolent manners; it seems as if all Romney's intimate friends were truly amiable and feeling like himself.

I have also seen Alderman Boydel, who has promised to get the number and prices of all Romney's prints as you desired. He has sent a Catalogue of all his Collection, and a Scheme of his Lottery; desires his compliments to you, says he laments your absence from London, as your advice would be acceptable at all times but especially at the present. He is very thin and decay'd, and but the shadow of what he was; so he is now a Shadow's Shadow; but how can we expect a very stout man at eighty-five, which age he tells me he has now&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/6</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633695</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133013</id>
      <parentid>8169320</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (116)</comment>
      <origin>15133013</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2816" sha1="7wrxgwxmmy5m4tg15l60p9hpneqyhnc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;CASES REPORTED. 
Page. 
Duncan v. The C. H Foster 733 
Duncan, Coombs v 733 
Durant, Abendroth v 849 
Eggers, McCarthy v 478 
Ehrman v. Teutonia Ins. Co... 471 
Elfelt V. Hart 264 
Emigrant Ind. Sav. Bank, La- 
vin V 641 
Emma Silver Min. Co. v. Emma 
Bilver Min. Co 39 
Equitable Life As. Soc. v. Pat- 
terson 126 
Eric KoL Mill Ce, In re 885 
Ertheiier, Carroll v 688 
ExcelsiorMfg. Co., Bussey V... 640 
Farr v. British Bteamship Fam- 
ley 631 
Parwell v. Brown 128 
Eifth Nat. Bk. v. Pitts. &amp; C. 8. 
R. Co 190 
First Nat. Bk. v. Bates 702 
First Nat. Bk. v. Btauffer 187 
Fisliei-, Kerosene Lamp Heater 
Co. V 91 
Flood, Bulke v 541 
Forrest v. Home 459 
Fox, Beecher V 273 
Frifik V. Christian Co 250 
Friemansdorf v. Watertown Ins. 
Co 68 
Garrett v. Sayles 371 
Gause v. City of Clarksville.... 353 
Cause V. Knupp 292 
Gebhard V.Canada South. R.Co. 387 
Gilbert v. Quimby 111 
Goggin, Uniied Btates v 49 
Gordon, Green v. 142 
Green V. Betts 289 
Green v. Gordon 142 
Green v. Steamer Helen 916 
Greenwood v. Bracher 856 
Groome, In re 464 
Groves, Meguiar v 279 
Guiding Star, The 347 
Hadji, The, Phalon V 89 
Halberg, Bwenson v 444 
Hall V. Penn. R. Co 226 
Hamilton, In re 800 
Hampden Whip Co., American 
Whip Uo. V 87 
Hansen, Richards v 54 
Harding, Toohey v 174 
Harlow, Crowell v 140 
Hart, Elfelt v 264 
Hart, Turnerv 295 
Hartly, Kimberling v 571 
Page. 
Hathaway v. St. Paul F. &amp; M. , 
Ins. Co 197 
Havemeyer, Hewat v 47 
Hayden v. Androscoggin Mills. 93 
Hayden v. Bates Mfg. Co 93 
Heerman v. Beef Blough Mfg. 
Co 145 
Hordic, In re 242 
Hewat V. Havemj-er 47 
Hcynsobn v. Merriman 728 
Hinckley , Beatty v 385 
Hoe V. Cottrell 597 
Hoerr, Anshutz v 592 
Holmes B. A. Tel. Co., Page v. 304 
Home, Forrest v 459 
Horn, Sawyerv 24 
Janssen v. Patterson 882 
Jefîries v. Union Mut. L. Ina. Co. 450 
Johnston v. Roe 692 
Joslyn V. Nickorson 133 
Judd, Baboock v 408 
Kelley v. Miss. Cent. R. Co 564 
Keokuk N. L. P. Co. , Sbeldon v. 789 
Kerosene Lamp Heater Co. v. 
Fisher 91 
Ketchum, In re 815 
Ketebum, In re 838 
Ketchum, In re 840 
Keystone Bridge Co. v. Britton. 116 
Kilgore v. CrosF! 578 
Kimberling v. llartly 571 
King, Porter v 755 
Kirby Bung Mfg. Co. v. AVhite. 604 
Knapp, Gause v 292 
Kulmer, Claridge v 399 
L.E.E.&amp;S.W. R. Co.,Masonv. 712 
Lamar, Micon v 14 
Lancasbire 1ns. Co., Mack v 193 
Lavin v.Emigrimt Ind.Sav.Bank 641 
Levi V. Columbia Life Ins. Co. . 206 
Lewis, Liiider v 378 
Liggett &amp; M. Tob. Co. v. Miller 203 
Linder v. Lewis 378 
L. M. C. &amp; X. R. Co., United 
Btates v 700 
Loup, United States v 696 
Mack V. Lancasbire Ins. Co 193 
Mainwaring v. Bark Carrie 
Ddap 874 
Mainwaring v. Bark Carrie 
Delap 880 
Malony v. City of Milwaukee. .. 611 
Marrion B. &amp; W. Co. v. Steam- 
boat H. C. Yeager 285 
Mason v. L. E. E. &amp; 8. W. B. Co. 712 
May, In re 737&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7wrxgwxmmy5m4tg15l60p9hpneqyhnc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/52</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633741</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132992</id>
      <parentid>14560444</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:36:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PEDEBAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15132992</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2253" sha1="a40jbp1n9glitkg88878jl43pniu2n3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;44 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
pleaded, the directing of a bill of particulars, and the prae- 
tice of requiring pleadings to be made more definite and cer- 
tain, on motion. The practice of referring the truth of the 
plea may account for the want of precedents for such an 
order. It could not be questioned that it -would be a rea- 
sonable rule of court that in all cases where a record is 
pleaded it should be set forth in the bill, or the plea in hœc 
verba, or by copy annexed to the bill or plea, unless for cause 
shown excused by the court ; and I think it is equally evident 
that, where justice and the interest of all the parties require 
it, or will not be prejudiced by it, and the court may thereby 
be relieved of hearing and deciding a merely imaginary case, 
the same thing may be directed by special order. There is 
nothing in the statutes, or the rules, or the principles of prac- 
tice to prevent it. 
I eau see nothing in the rules of the supreme court to in- 
terfere with the granting of this motion. It is true that rules 
33—38 imply that the plaintiiï will demur, reply or set down 
for argument. This is but the embodiment in rules of the 
ordinary chancery practice. The reference asked for is 
merely preliminary to setting down for argument or replying 
to the pleas. It is not iijconsistent with the rules. These 
rules do not purport to regulate all the points of practice, 
and they exnressly adopt the principles of practice of English 
chancery not inconsistent with these rules. It cannot be 
assumed that they were intended to make the practice more 
difficult and cumbersome, but rather to facilitate and simplify 
it. Therefore, a practice obtaining in the English chancery 
not expressly or obviously inconsistent with the rules, and 
which tends strongly in the direction of abbreviating litiga- 
tion and relieving the parties and the court from unnecessary 
proceedings, should be deemed as adopted by the ninetieth 
rule. This practice is of that nature. 
Cases cited in which it appears that the truth of the plea 
as to the existence of the record lias been tried under plea 
and replication in ordinary course, are of no account, for 
without question the plainfciff may take that coursa if he&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>a40jbp1n9glitkg88878jl43pniu2n3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/78</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633768</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133031</id>
      <parentid>14560542</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, EPORTEB → EPORTER,  FEDK →  FEDE, EDEBAL  → EDERAL, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133031</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2316" sha1="r48aa46m47mvd0c7h0p3ozycc29p1r8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;70 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
in the event of a loss. Such ia the uniform holding of the Illi- 
nois cases; and in the case of Bates v. The Equitable Insurance 
Company, reportedin 10 Wall. 33, the same principle is estab- 
lished. In that case Philbrick, the party insured, received a 
pnlicy, and afterwards he wrote upon the baok of the policy, 
&quot;Payable in case of loss to E. C. Bates,&quot; and signed &quot;W. E. 
Philbrick,&quot; who was the original party to whom the policy 
was issued, and the agent of the company wrote underneath 
this indorsement by Philbrick as foUows: &quot;Consent iahereby 
given to the above indorsement. Equitable Insurance Com- 
pany, by Frederick W. a.rnold, Secretary;&quot; so that it, in legal 
effect, made the policy precisely like the one now before us ; 
that is, a case of a policy with loss, if any, payable to E. C. 
Bates, as his interest may appear. And the supreme court 
there held that the suit must be maintained in the name of 
Philbrick ; that Philbrick was the insured, and any breach of 
the conditions of the policy by Philbrick voided the policy. 
The same rule is held in the case of Fitch, reported in 51 
m., and in the case of the Home Insurance Company, re- 
ported in 53 111., so that I have no doubt the law is well set- 
tled in this state as well as in the federal courts, as I have 
already stated. 
There is a series of cases in the state of New York, com- 
mencing since the adoption of their code of practice, which 
requires that all suits shall be instituted in the name of the 
party in interest, where the courts have allowed a suit to be 
prosecuted in the name of the person to whom the loss was 
payable, where it was made to appear that the entire sum 
insured, or due, upon the policy, was going to the party 
bringing the suit, because such person was really the only 
person actually interested in the event of the suit. And the 
same rule bas been held in the state of Wisconsin, because 
the state of Wisconsin has adopted, bodily almost, the New 
York Code ; and there are a few cases in some of the other 
states depending upon similar reasons. But the general 
scope of authority throughout the United States, unless it is 
otherwise held by reason of some statutory legislation, has 
been and now is, undoubtedly, that all this class of policies&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>r48aa46m47mvd0c7h0p3ozycc29p1r8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/98</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633789</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133081</id>
      <parentid>8169677</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EPORTEB → EPORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133081</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2168" sha1="06c9wzw5p2fdcucfrxtdjlk3e5909b6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;90 FJiDEIlAL KEPORTER. 
places lapping over each other. Between the stanchions 
amidships were open spaces; and in one place, just aft the 
forward beam, several of the deals were too short to extend to 
the forward beam, and these were therefore left with one end 
unsupported by a beam. 
The libellant was employedto assist in stowing the cargo of 
the steamer. In the course of such employment he was di- 
reeted to go to the eyes of the ship for some dunnage. No 
directions were given as to how the libellant was to go for- 
ward. He might have gone upon the stringer with safety, 
Instead of so doing he went upon the deals that were lying 
upon the beams. While so proceeding he stepped upon the 
unsupported ends of the deals that failed to extend to the for- 
ward beam. The deals tilted under his weight and he was 
precipitated to the lower hold, several deals falling with him, 
and thus received the injuries complained of. 
Upon these facts the first question arising is, whether neg- 
ligence bas been proved. Clearly it was not negligence to 
allow the lower deck beams of this steamer to remain uncov- 
ered by a deck. The owners of the vessel had the right to 
construct and use their ship without any lower deck upon the 
lower deck beams. Such a between-decks being a eommon 
feature in ships, it canhot be held that a vessel so conatructed 
was an improper vessel so far as her construction was con- 
cerned. 
Neither was there any negligence in using the lower deck 
beams for the purpose of stowing loose plank upon them for 
a temporary purpose ; such a use of this portion of a vessel 
is-not unusual or improper. If there was any negligence it 
was in placing the loose deals upon the beams in such a 
manner as to leave their ends unsupported at the place where 
the libellant fell. But as already stated the deals were not 
intended to serve as a deck, nor was it neoessary to go upon 
them in order to reach the place to which the libellant was 
sent for dunnage. There being no duty on the part of the 
ship to maintain a deck in the between-decks, and the evi- 
dence rendering it impossible to hold that the deals formed a&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>06c9wzw5p2fdcucfrxtdjlk3e5909b6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133094</id>
      <parentid>15133081</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: KEPORT →  REPORT</comment>
      <origin>15133094</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2168" sha1="rfk0nvmzlrwzsjyluehnx7o4ujdgl2t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;90 FJiDEIlAL REPORTER. 
places lapping over each other. Between the stanchions 
amidships were open spaces; and in one place, just aft the 
forward beam, several of the deals were too short to extend to 
the forward beam, and these were therefore left with one end 
unsupported by a beam. 
The libellant was employedto assist in stowing the cargo of 
the steamer. In the course of such employment he was di- 
reeted to go to the eyes of the ship for some dunnage. No 
directions were given as to how the libellant was to go for- 
ward. He might have gone upon the stringer with safety, 
Instead of so doing he went upon the deals that were lying 
upon the beams. While so proceeding he stepped upon the 
unsupported ends of the deals that failed to extend to the for- 
ward beam. The deals tilted under his weight and he was 
precipitated to the lower hold, several deals falling with him, 
and thus received the injuries complained of. 
Upon these facts the first question arising is, whether neg- 
ligence bas been proved. Clearly it was not negligence to 
allow the lower deck beams of this steamer to remain uncov- 
ered by a deck. The owners of the vessel had the right to 
construct and use their ship without any lower deck upon the 
lower deck beams. Such a between-decks being a eommon 
feature in ships, it canhot be held that a vessel so conatructed 
was an improper vessel so far as her construction was con- 
cerned. 
Neither was there any negligence in using the lower deck 
beams for the purpose of stowing loose plank upon them for 
a temporary purpose ; such a use of this portion of a vessel 
is-not unusual or improper. If there was any negligence it 
was in placing the loose deals upon the beams in such a 
manner as to leave their ends unsupported at the place where 
the libellant fell. But as already stated the deals were not 
intended to serve as a deck, nor was it neoessary to go upon 
them in order to reach the place to which the libellant was 
sent for dunnage. There being no duty on the part of the 
ship to maintain a deck in the between-decks, and the evi- 
dence rendering it impossible to hold that the deals formed a&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rfk0nvmzlrwzsjyluehnx7o4ujdgl2t</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/108</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633799</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133073</id>
      <parentid>14559950</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:00:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EPORTEB → EPORTER,  FEDBB →  FEDER, DERAL BE → DERAL RE, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133073</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2299" sha1="4b8hxidizc1e6jz21vmrv3cvn1gaep6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;100 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
&quot;If any person, ♦ * liable to pay a tax, shall neglect or 
refuse to pay the same after demand, the amount shall be a 
lien in favor of the United States fram the time it was due 
until paid, * * * upon all property, etc., belonging to 
such person,&quot; etc. The statute does not say &quot;upon all prop- 
erty which may have belonged to such person when the tax 
accrued.&quot; 
This or similar language would, I think, have been em- 
ployed if congress had intended to give the statute this effect. 
It must be conceded that the words &quot;ail property * * * 
belonging to such person&quot; must be construed as referring to 
some time to be ascertained by the context ; and it may also 
be conceded that we might, without doing violence to the lan- 
guage of the law, refer them to the time when the tax became 
due, and make the clause read &quot;ail property, etc., belonging 
to such person, etc., at the time the tax became due.&quot; This, 
however, does violence to the spirit of the act for reasons 
already stated. Another reading is authorized by the lan- 
guage, and is in harmony -with the spirit, and that is the one 
I have adopted, namely, that the words in question refer to 
the time when the demand is made, and may be phrased 
thus : &quot;AU property, etc., belonging to such person at the 
time such demand is made.&quot; By this construction the lien, 
when it once attaches, relates back to the time when the tax 
was due, but it does not attach to the property transferred to 
innocent purchasers prier to demand. This view also har- 
monizes with the general policy of the law relating to land 
titles, which is to protect the citizen against loss from secret 
liens, not disolosed by any public record nor ascertainable by 
due diligence. Nor is it unjust toward the government, for it 
is fair to presume that the government, armed as it is with 
so many agencies and appliances for ascertaining what taxes 
are due and unpaid, and from whom, and all-powerful as it 
is to enforce its rights, will, within reasonable time, make 
demand, or take some steps in the direction of making col- 
lections, in all cases where there is delinquency. The gov- 
ernment may protect itself by diligence if the view I take of 
the statute shall prevail; but, if the opposite vifw is sus-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4b8hxidizc1e6jz21vmrv3cvn1gaep6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/138</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633829</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132997</id>
      <parentid>14559966</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:39:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EBPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, ORTEE → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15132997</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2209" sha1="jwfqov68egh6a93izbcg4wirmjfq0h3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;130 FEDERAL REPORTER, 
he has since nearlypaid up; and to balance the account gave 
defendant his note for |470.15, which he has also paid in 
fuU. 
P. E. Brown took possession on the sale, and remained in 
possession up to the time the goods were attached, about the 
last of August, 1879. The evidence all tends to show that 
the consideration paid for the property was adequate; and 
the fact that the stock was sold at 25 per cent, below the 
invoice price is no evidence to the contrary. 
E. H. and P. E. Brown both swear it was all the stock was 
worth; that P. E. Brown afterwards offered and tried to 
resell it for what he paid, but could not, and that it was 
inventoried in the attachment proceedings at $3,000. The 
plaintiff has not even undertaken to prove that the goods 
were worth more than P. E. Brown paid for them, but relies 
in good part upon the testimony of one Joseph Brown and 
A. E. Campbell, to show actual intent on the part of the de- 
fendant to defraud. Campbell was the attomey of Farwell 
&amp; Co., and went to Belmont to secure this claim soon after 
the sale to P. E. Brown, about the last of August. He found 
the defendant in the store, and had a conversation with him ; 
saw him selling goods and giving instructions to clerks, or 
supposed he did. defendant told him he could not pay, and 
that he had sold out to his brother. He says defendant re- 
fused to give him any statement of his affairs ; that he re- 
fused to let him see his books, or to make any explanation 
or give him any satisfaction. All of which the defendant 
denies, and says he told him about his indebtedness, and all 
about the sale to his brother and the consideration, and that 
he had a dispute about the statement defendant had given 
plaintiff as to his financial condition, and that Campbell 
threatened him with criminal prosecution in Chicago, and 
talked to him in a very ugly way about it, and that while he 
was so talking he refused to give him any explanation, but 
afterwards he talked to him about his sickness and the heavy 
expenses he had been to, and told him about the sale and the 
consideration for it, and that they took dinner together aud 
were more friendly.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jwfqov68egh6a93izbcg4wirmjfq0h3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/142</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633833</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132747</id>
      <parentid>14559969</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:48:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15132747</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2305" sha1="oynyya1r86sr9luojdxztshzb66c337" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;134 FEDERAL REPOKTBR. 
was also commissioned by the same board as a firat-clasa 
pilot, &quot;as appears from the certificate, of which a copy, 'C,' is 
annexed.&quot; The certificate I will give presently. The vessel 
was fitted, equipped and used as a passenger steamship be- 
tween Boston and Havana; carried passengers on this voy-' 
age; was under the charge of her said master; and was by 
him piloted into the harbor of Boston. 
By the law of Massachusetts, Statutes of 1862, c. 176, 
schedule, clauses 4, 5 and 10, the &quot;United States&quot; would be 
liable for pilotage, unless relieved by clause 15. The America, 
1 Lowell, 176. Clause 15 is as follows: &quot;Ail passenger 
steam vessels regulated by the laws of the United States, 
and carrying a pilot commissioned by United States commis- 
sioners, are exempt from the compulsory payment of pilotage.&quot; 
When this statute was passed the act of Congress of August 30» 
1852, (10 St. at Large, 51,) regulating steam vessels which 
carried passengers, was in force. By section 9, clauses 7 and 9, 
of that act, the boards of inspectors of steamboats were re- 
quired, within their several jurisdictions, to examine into the 
character and qualifications of any person who should claim 
to be a skilful pilot, and should offer himself for a lieense, 
and, if they found him competent, to grant him a certificate 
licensing him as a pilot of such vessels for one year, within 
the limits prescribed in the certificate. Clause 10 imposes a 
penalty on persons acting as pilots of such steam vessels 
without a lieense from the inspectors. Many able lawyers 
were of opinion that this statute was intended to require all 
local pilots to be licensed by the inspectors of the United 
States, See The Panama, 1 Deady, 27, and the dissenting 
opinion in Steamship Co. v. Joliffe, infra. It is possible that 
the legislature of Massachusetts may have had this belief, 
but the supreme court decided in 1864 that pilots of harbors 
were not within the statute, and that, therefore, the state 
laws as to such pilots remained in force. Steamship Co. v. 
Jolife, 2 Wall. 450. 
After this decision was given an act of congresa was passed 
requiring all American steam vessels, whether carrying pasv 
Bengers or not, excepting public ships of the United States, to&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>oynyya1r86sr9luojdxztshzb66c337</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/148</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633839</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133003</id>
      <parentid>14525285</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, ERAl  → ERAL , OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (13)</comment>
      <origin>15133003</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1782" sha1="tvfz9psr4ryqcj5li0sei8sroh4mnqc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;140 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
parts of the machine next to the grass left uncut to their 
hindrance, nor to have ohtained a patent for that device. The 
use of such rollers is what the orator complains of, but the 
patent she owns does net appear to cover them, therefore the 
defendant does not appear to infringe her patent as it was 
grauted. Decree dismissing bill. 
CboweIjL p. NathanieIj E. Hablow. 
Ceowell ». George Haelow. 
(Oireuît Court, D. Massoehusett». January 17, 1S80.) 
Ln'vestion — IMPEOVBD Phocess OF CuBiNo FisH. — An improvement In 
the process of curing flsh by the removal of the mucous membrane 
is patentable, when it was not formerly knowu that such membrane was 
injurious to the keeping quality of the fish. 
These causes were tried together, it being agreed that the 
facts -were precisely alike in both. 
John Atwood obtained a patent, No. 90,334, May 25, 1869, 
for an improved process of curing and putting up fish. Ile 
declared in his specification that the cause of the offensive 
odor of fish cured in the ordinary way was the mucous mem- 
brane between the skin and the flesh, which when dried and 
afterwards moistened became slimy and offensive. His new 
method was thus described: &quot;When the fish is fresh, I take 
ont the principal bones and fins, the fish remaining whole or 
split in halves. When partially dried and cured with sait I 
remove the skin, and with it the entire mucous membrane, 
the cause of the offensive odor of sait fish. I then pack in 
tight wood boxes, of convenient size, for instance from ten to 
one hundred pound boxes.&quot; He claims: &quot;The method or 
process for curing and putting ap fish substantially as de- 
scribed.&quot; It was explained that the method was particularly 
applicable to cod and liaJdock.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tvfz9psr4ryqcj5li0sei8sroh4mnqc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/160</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633851</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132748</id>
      <parentid>8168840</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:48:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15132748</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2330" sha1="dhdqajt3ro0h79hdcwue73llnllw6r3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;152 FEDBKAL KEPORTER. 
That the plaintiff has often been compelled to suspend, for 
a considerable number of hours at a time, the running of his 
beats, especially by night, in consequence of the danger from 
running logs, imposing large expeuse upon him; and on 
different occasions the rudders, wheels, log chains and guards 
of his boats have been broken and rendered unserviceable in 
consequence of said logs running in said river. That twice 
the plaintiff's barges have been sunk by reason of the running 
logs, and that damages have in varions ways been inflicted 
upon him, exceeding in amount the sum of $6,000. That said 
defendants have, during the spring of 1878, made a boom at 
the head of Beef Island which extends across the main and 
only practicable ohannel of the said Chippewa river in such 
a manner that no boats can safely pass up or down the said 
river unless said boom be opened or taken away. 
That the ostensible purpose thereof is to turn floating logs 
into Beef Slough. but the same is unnecessary for such 
purpose, but the real object and efiect of the same is to 
divert a larger volume of said water into said slough, and the 
efiect of such boom will be to divert the waters to a great 
extent into Beef Slough, so as to practically destroy steam- 
boat navigation on said river, and also to form a sand bar 
across the main channel of said river and efifectually block up 
the same against the passage of boats. And the said defend- 
ants bave constructed 10 or 12 sheer booms in said river in 
such manner as to endanger the passage of steamboats, the 
same projeoting far into the stream, and kept without a light 
or any man upon them, whereby the hulls of steamboats 
ascending said river are in great danger of being struck and 
punctured, and boats are often seriously injured and delayed 
in the effort to pass the same; and that at Round Hill the 
defendants have buiit a boom, more than a third of a mile in 
length, 80 as to bave entirely eut oii the former channel at 
that point and to cause the same to fiU with earth and sand, 
and m extension thereof bave built a sheer boom of such 
length that the same can be extended entirely across the 
river; and in entire disregard of the rights of the plaintiS 
the said defendants frequently carry and extend the same so&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dhdqajt3ro0h79hdcwue73llnllw6r3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133092</id>
      <parentid>15132748</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: KEPORT →  REPORT, BKAL → ERAL</comment>
      <origin>15133092</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2330" sha1="7ngxardyrec50y0jht3rqk2iku0fhyz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;152 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
That the plaintiff has often been compelled to suspend, for 
a considerable number of hours at a time, the running of his 
beats, especially by night, in consequence of the danger from 
running logs, imposing large expeuse upon him; and on 
different occasions the rudders, wheels, log chains and guards 
of his boats have been broken and rendered unserviceable in 
consequence of said logs running in said river. That twice 
the plaintiff's barges have been sunk by reason of the running 
logs, and that damages have in varions ways been inflicted 
upon him, exceeding in amount the sum of $6,000. That said 
defendants have, during the spring of 1878, made a boom at 
the head of Beef Island which extends across the main and 
only practicable ohannel of the said Chippewa river in such 
a manner that no boats can safely pass up or down the said 
river unless said boom be opened or taken away. 
That the ostensible purpose thereof is to turn floating logs 
into Beef Slough. but the same is unnecessary for such 
purpose, but the real object and efiect of the same is to 
divert a larger volume of said water into said slough, and the 
efiect of such boom will be to divert the waters to a great 
extent into Beef Slough, so as to practically destroy steam- 
boat navigation on said river, and also to form a sand bar 
across the main channel of said river and efifectually block up 
the same against the passage of boats. And the said defend- 
ants bave constructed 10 or 12 sheer booms in said river in 
such manner as to endanger the passage of steamboats, the 
same projeoting far into the stream, and kept without a light 
or any man upon them, whereby the hulls of steamboats 
ascending said river are in great danger of being struck and 
punctured, and boats are often seriously injured and delayed 
in the effort to pass the same; and that at Round Hill the 
defendants have buiit a boom, more than a third of a mile in 
length, 80 as to bave entirely eut oii the former channel at 
that point and to cause the same to fiU with earth and sand, 
and m extension thereof bave built a sheer boom of such 
length that the same can be extended entirely across the 
river; and in entire disregard of the rights of the plaintiS 
the said defendants frequently carry and extend the same so&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7ngxardyrec50y0jht3rqk2iku0fhyz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/168</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633859</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132749</id>
      <parentid>14525287</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:48:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PEDEBAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15132749</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2328" sha1="bozejkbg94e91ujmvjbphwnkcixzou5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;160 FEDERAL REPOfiTBB. 
aw, as it is found, and under such regulations as the legisla- 
ture may from time to time niake. the matter is peculiarly 
a subject for municipal regulation. As a matter of fact, the 
lawfnlness of the use of the Ghippewa river by both these 
interests has been fully recognized by the state. 
That the use of the Ghippewa river, in common with many 
other rivers and creeks in the northern half of the state, for 
the floating of legs as well as lumber to market is a lawful 
use, there is no manner of doubt. It has been practiced for 
nearly or quite half a century, and although the right has 
sometimes been denied by those engaged in other commercial 
interests, the use of these streams for such purpose has been 
general and uninterrupted for a long period, and from a time 
antedating the organization of the state government. The 
vast importance of the logging and lumbering interests on the 
Ghippewa river sufficientiy appears from the bill of complaint, 
and if it did not the court should take judicial notice of it. 
To do otherwise would be for the court to affect ignorance 
upon a subject of common notoriety, respecting a leading com- 
mercial interest of the state. 
the lawiulness of this right has been repeatedly recognized 
and upheld by the decisions of the circuit and supreme courts 
of &quot;Wisconsin, as well as by a long course of state legislation, 
and is fully recognized by the act partially set out in the com- 
plaint, by force of which the Beef Slough Manufacturing, 
Booming, Log Driving and Transportation Gompany claims 
the right to maintain the piers and booms in the river, which 
are in part the subject of this suit. 
By chapter 399 of the General Laws of 1876, entitled &quot;An 
act to facilitate the driving of logs down the rivers of this 
state, and their tributaries,&quot; as well as chapter 144 of the Laws 
of 1872, of which it is amendatory, the right is .explicitly rec- 
ognized, and aulhority conferred for the organization of incor- 
porated companies for the purpose of driving, sorting, and 
delivering logs on the rivers of this state, and their tributaries, 
and for the improvement of such rivers and tributariçs for 
such purpose ; and it was under and by virtue of the au- 
thority of these acts that the other defendant, the Ghippewa&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bozejkbg94e91ujmvjbphwnkcixzou5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/174</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633865</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132750</id>
      <parentid>14559977</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:48:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDK →  FEDE, EDEBAL  → EDERAL ,  EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15132750</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2309" sha1="bd1nixyiafvaebjn3c39epl3nx2v814" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;166 FEDERAL REPOETER. 
the policy of the state is once made manifest by legislative 
acts, it is'not in the province of a court of chancery, by its 
decrees, to run counter to that policy, and to declare that a 
nuisance, or the use of that a nuisance, which the law au- 
thorizes. If there be an abuse of the use of the thing so 
authorized by law, the law affords a remedy in damages ; and 
that wojald be the appropriate remedy in this case if the law 
must,;be resorted to for a remedy. It does not foUow, how- 
ever, that, because the plaintiii has suffered damages in the 
passage of his boats by reasonof the defendants' use of their 
dam, the plaintiff sJould be entitled to recover without any 
regard to other questions; such as the question whether, 
under all circumstances, the defendants have made an un- 
reasonable use of the water, and how the beneficiai use to 
the defendants of the water, in the manner charged, com- 
pared with the inconvenience which it caused to the plaintiff. 
Those are questions which would clearly be involved in the 
case, and it would be the province of the jury to determine 
them from all the facts and circumstances in evidence. 
The logging business, the business of sawing lumber and 
running rafts, and that of navigation by boats, are all inter- 
ests that have grown up together on the Chippewa, as also on 
some of the other lumbering streams in the north half of the 
state. They are all interests which the law recognizes, and 
they are all entitled to its protection. They are not and should 
not be regarded as antagonistic. On the contrary, they are 
more or less dependent one upon the others; and by a little 
mutual concession and forbearance, and a just and reasonable 
spirit on the part of those persons severally devoted to them, 
they may, undoubtedly, all fiourish in themselves, and be a 
help to one another. Such a course in the long run will be 
found much more advantageous to the public, and to the 
parties especially concerned, than the engaging in litigation, 
the effect of which, if succcssful, would be to exterminate or 
cripple what some are apt to regard as a rival interest. 
The demurrer must be sustained, and as the plaintiii does 
not desire to amend his bill of complaint it will be dismissed 
with costs.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bd1nixyiafvaebjn3c39epl3nx2v814</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/176</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633867</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133004</id>
      <parentid>8168858</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133004</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2267" sha1="n4klcylr4ifiip2ox94qpthg21awlt5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;168 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
gross amount being subsequently corrected by proper entries 
in the boolis, if the weight was found to be more or less upon 
actual delivery, and if the price of gold should have changed 
when the duties came to be actually paid. The cargoes were 
not actually delivered until required by the superintendeat of 
the refinery for manufacture, and were generally, at the 
time the promissory notes were given, in the custody of the 
United States government, in its bonded store-bouses, sub- 
ject to its lien for tJie daties, and also still pledged to the 
bankers for their advances upon the letters of credit with 
which the bankrupts had purchascd the sugars in Cuba. 
The bankrupts, as the agents of the corporation, kept its 
books of account, and received ail the money paid by its cus- 
tomers for the refined sugars sold to them. Upon an adjust- 
ment of the books of account it was found that up to the lime 
of the failure the bankrupts had received in money and prom- 
issory notes amounts largely in excess of the sums credued to 
them for the sugars they had sold to the corporation; this 
excess, as the account was first made up, being about $055,- 
000. Subsequently it was found that hve cargoes of sugar, 
which had been sold by the bankrupts to the corporation, and 
for which they had been credited, and for which they had 
received the notes of the corporation, could not be obiained. 
They had been pledged by the bankrupts to Alex. I3ra',vu &amp; 
Sons, the bankers, for their fuU value. The amounts credited 
to the bankrupts for these five cargoes being deducted, and 
other corrections being made, the account was made up as 
now presented, and it is this account, now amounting to 
$1,027, 794. 9-i, which the trustees of the corporation are 
seeking to have allowed as a claim against the bankrupts' 
estate. 
One item in this account is for the sum of about $G4,000, 
paid by said trustees, being dividcnds amounting to 50-|- per 
cent, paid by them on a claim l'or about $127,000, proved by 
Alex. Brown &amp; Sons against the estate of the corporation for 
guarantees by the corporation of letters of credit issued by the 
bankers to the bankrupts. 
The assignee of the bankrupts bas petitioned the court not&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>n4klcylr4ifiip2ox94qpthg21awlt5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/184</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633875</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132751</id>
      <parentid>14560370</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:48:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: islied → ished,  EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15132751</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2139" sha1="2hgqxyj5n8i78wfkw2oqz8p6nxhs6jn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;176 FEDEIIA.L REPOETERi 
ble strip, and nothing more. The otject to be accomplished 
was removing the roda without loss of time. The means were 
the headed rods, which were so arranged as to be all drawn 
out at once by pulling off the removable strip. 
It is true that in her specifications she says that the width 
of the board may be inereased at will, by adding a strip to 
one of the edges, but that is not part of the invention which 
she claims as hers, and which she is to be protected in. She 
is, therefore, without ground to complain of the infringement 
of anything except the combination of the headed rods with 
the removable strip. 
There is no evidence that the respondent uses, or suggests 
to his purchasers that they shall use, headed rods, or that 
his object in making his board in the manner he does is other 
than the purpose set forth in the specifications of his patent, 
viz. : to enable the width to be enlarged or diminished. He 
uses, also, his own device for holding the rods on to the 
board. There is no evidence to show that the boards made 
by the respondent do, in fact, when used, accomplish the 
resuit proposed to be accomplished by the complainant's in- 
vention. It was suggested in argument that, as the respond- 
ent's board was made with a detachable strip, when the strip 
was removed, and the board tilted over and slightly shaken, 
the rods would all fall out, thus accomplishing the same 
resuit as when the headed rods were all forcibly drawn out 
by removing the strip in complainant's board. If this be in 
fact so, it is a resuit for which I cannot see that complainant 
bas any remedy. The respondent bas a right to manufacture 
in accordance with his patent, and if by so doing, and with- 
out infringing the claim of complainant, he prodaces a ma- 
chine which incidentally, and without use of her invention, 
accomplishes the useful purpose of her invention, he may 
do so. 
I have come to these conclusions without considering the 
evidence submitted by the respondent and excepted to by the 
complainant. 
The certificate of the patent-office that the respondent filed&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2hgqxyj5n8i78wfkw2oqz8p6nxhs6jn</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/188</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633879</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132752</id>
      <parentid>8168871</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:48:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15132752</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2267" sha1="0e9ply69ix67wypgyd8tyvnv13hawnl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;180 ?EDEEAL REPORTER. 
Schumacher &amp; Co., but they refused it as it, contained tb.B 
■words &quot;sailed or loading at Benizaf,&quot; which they claimed yf&amp;z 
not the agreement. Another charter-party was then executed 
by Gregg &amp; Co. containing the words &quot;sailed or about to sail 
from Benizaf,&quot; which was accepted and agreed by Schumacher 
&amp; Co., and that is the contract under which this controversy 
arises. 
It appears that during the negotiation Schumacher &amp; Co. 
endeavored to get a stipulation inserted in the charter-party 
that the vessel would arrive in time for the August shipment, 
but that was refused. It also appears that in the printed 
charter-party used there was a stipulation in this language : 
&quot;Charterers to have the option of cancelling this charter-party 
should vessel not have arrived at loading port prior to .'* 
This was erased by drawing a pen through it. 
The portions of the charter-party material to this litiga- 
tion were as follows : 
Philadelphia, August 1, 1879. 
&quot;It is this day mntually agreed between T. H. Davidson, 
Esq., owner of the British steamship ' Whickham,' of London, 
built 1876, at Newcastle, of 1124 net tons register, or there- 
abouts, classed 100 A. 1 in British Lloyds, now sailed or about 
to sail from Benizaf witk cargo for Philadelphia, and Messrs. A. 
Schumacher &amp; Co., that said steamship being tight, staunch 
and strong, and in every way fitted for the voyage, with 
liberty to take outward cargo to Philadelphia fôr owner's ben- 
efit, shall, with ail convenient speed, sail and proceed to Phila- 
delphia or Baltimore, at charterer's option, after discharge 
of inward cargo at Philadelphia, and there load from said 
•charterers, or their agents, a full and complete cargo of grain, 
«te, etc., and being so loaded shall therewith proceed to 
■Queenstown, Falmouth or Plymouth, for orders to discharge 
at a safe port in the United Kingdom, etc., and deliver the 
flame on being paid freight, six shillings and three pence ster- 
ling per quarter of 480 Ibs., etc., in full of port charges, etc., 
(the acts of God, restraints of princes and rulers, the dangers 
of the seas and navigation, accidents to boilers, machinery 
etc., always excepted.) Fifteen running days, (if vessel not&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0e9ply69ix67wypgyd8tyvnv13hawnl</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/214</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633905</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132787</id>
      <parentid>8168899</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:57:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTKB → PORTER, removed: � (15)</comment>
      <origin>15132787</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2054" sha1="h3ttfhzewimor0wjofyd35uff5mgfbo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;206 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
rulîng; but as the question is important I am glad that 
counsel has presented it again, so that it may be reviewed, in 
case the supreme court is called to pass upôn the matter. 
The motion is sustained. 
Tbeat, J., coneurred. 
LeYI V. COLUMBIA LiPE InS. Co. 
{Circuit Court, E, D, Missouri. , 1880.) 
jTmiSDicTioN — Execution — Judgment in Federal Cookt — I'hoperty 
m CuSTODT op State Coubt. — Where, under the &quot;lusurauce Act&quot; of 
the state of Missouri, proceedinga have beon instituted in the state 
eottrt against an Insurance company, which finally resuit in the dissolu- 
tion and administration of the affaira of that company, ail intermediate 
proceedinga must be finally diaposed of in that tribunal, even though a 
Talid and subsisting judgment was obtained in the federal court againat 
the company pending auch administration. 
Motion for execution and order on receiver of an insurance 
company, dissolved under proceedings in a state court, for 
the payment of a judgment obtained against such insurance 
company pending said proceedings in the state court. 
Given Campbell, for plaintiff. 
Pope d McGinness, for defendant. 
Teeat, J., (orally.) M. D. Lewis, public adminîstrator, has 
filed his petition to have the judgment in favor of Levi revived; 
and notice thereof having been served on the receiver of the 
defendant, (dissolved,) the latter appeared, and, not objecting 
thereto, it was adjudged that said judgment be revived in the 
name of said administrator, Lewis. Thereupon a rule was 
entered upon said receiver to show cause why he should not 
pay the amount of said judgment, or why execution should 
not issue against the realty or assets of said dissolved corpo- 
ration. To that rule said receiver has made an answer to 
the following efïect, viz : That said corporation was a Mis- 
souri corporation; that on Pebruary 23, 1877, the superin- 
tendent of the insurance department filed in the proper sate 
court a petition for the dissolution, etc., of said corporation ;&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>h3ttfhzewimor0wjofyd35uff5mgfbo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/228</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633919</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133074</id>
      <parentid>8168911</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:00:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EPORTEB → EPORTER,  FEDEBA →  FEDERA, ERAIi → ERAL, DERAL BE → DERAL RE, removed: � (17)</comment>
      <origin>15133074</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2055" sha1="olonrm4rkn5n9lt4ukpumjdoyjmgpe7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;220 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
owned by the Monongahela Navigation Company. It is thus 
à service rendered to the vessel at her home port, compensa- 
tion for which is not enforceable by a libel in rem. 
As the fund for distribution arising from the sale of the 
vessel was insufficient to cover the liens upon it, the appel- 
lant'sclaim was rightfully excluded from any participation in 
it, and its intervening libel must, therefore, be disraissed, with 
eosts, and it is so ordered. 
EuppEii &amp; McKiNLET V. Pattebson and othera. 
{Circuit Court, W. D. Pennsylvania. March 5, 1880.) 
Lkaskhold — AssïQïfOH ATTO AssiQNKB — Re8 Adjubicata. — Question* 
dctermined by a court of competent jurisdiction in a suit against th» 
asBignor of a lease, for rent accruing subsequent to the assignment, 
cannot be reconsideree! in a suit by the assigner against the assignee foi 
the repayment of such rent. 
Same— STAT0TB OF LIMITATIONS.— In such a case the statute of limita- 
tions begins to run in favor of the asasignee from the time the assigner 
paid the accrued rent, and not from the time the assignee made'default 
in the payment of the same. 
Motion for a new trial. 
The plaintiffs leased a tract of coal land from one Stewart, 
in 1S57, and assigned their leasehold to the defendants in 
1858, In 1860 Stewart sold the leased land to the defend- 
ants, releasing them from the payment of certain baek rent 
then due, but reserving the right to collect rent due on the 
lease previous to the date of the sale. In 1873 Stewart 
brought suit on the lease against the plaintiffs for rent due 
in 1859, and recovered the same after a protracted litigation. 
The plaintiffs thereupon brought this suit to recover the money 
paid by them to Stewart, for rent accrued subsequent to their 
assignment of the leasehold to the defendants. 
Kenneth Mcintosh, for plaintiffs. 
S. W. Cunningham and B. D. Kurtz, for defendants. 
Pbk Cueiam. The relation of principal and surety importa 
an obligation on the part of the principal to indemnify the&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>olonrm4rkn5n9lt4ukpumjdoyjmgpe7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/244</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633935</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132753</id>
      <parentid>14644031</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:48:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15132753</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2353" sha1="8x8eiz0ut44ywdnr7ou5gnh8hlmipgs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;236 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
load wag not included in the polioy because the libellants 
•were not willing to pay the respondent's terma for such insur- 
ance. Tiie propriety of the jettison is not qaestioned. 
The doctrine of general average for property tbus lost ^\'a3 
a part of the celebrated maritime code of the ancient Ehodians, 
in which it was thus stated: &quot;If goods are necessarily 
thrown overboard, for the purpose of liglitening the ship, tue 
losa 13 to be made good by the contribution of all, because 
it was insured for the benefit of all.&quot; No clearer statement 
has been made since. The doctrine is founded in pure equity. 
The sacrifice being made for the safety of the vessel and 
remaining cargo, the owner of the goods should bear no more 
than bis just proportion of the loss thus incurred. 
From the benefit of this right to contribution the owner of 
goods loaded above deck was excluded on the ground that 
such loading is improper, tending to embarrass the move- 
ments of the crew and the -working of the ship. To the uni- 
versal application of the rule (excluding deck cargo) serions 
objection has been made from the outset, and strenuous effort 
used to limit its operation. It has been urged that some 
goods may be placed on deck without embarassing the crew, 
or the movements of the vessel, and especially in short voyages 
from port to port; that custom has established the safety of 
such loading in some kinds of cargo and in voyages between 
certain places; and that -where such loading is in pursuance 
of eontract with the carrier hecannot urge the objection that 
it is improper. From the beginning most, if not all, elemen- 
' tary writers on the subject bave stated the rule with excep- 
tions. Valin says : &quot;The doctrine excluding goods carried on 
deck (and jettisoned) from general average ought to be con- 
troUed by the usages of trade; and aocordingly contribution 
may be claimed for goods thrown overboard from the decks 
of small coasting vessels, or river craft, which usually carry 
part of their cargo on deck.&quot; Valin Ord. de la Mar. art. 13. 
The only exception which seems well supported, of an early 
date, is one in favor of goods carried on deck in pursuance of 
custom, What is said in the early cases and elementary 
Works, respecting goods so carried on small coasting vessels,&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8x8eiz0ut44ywdnr7ou5gnh8hlmipgs</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/288</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633979</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132754</id>
      <parentid>14289861</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:48:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15132754</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2210" sha1="jc9yy1cj8r5qrqg1gznem6y2l4dflos" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;280 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
for the accommoclation of Groves, to secure an antecedent 
indebtedness ; (3) that in consideration of a mortgage from 
Groves to Eonald, made September 18, 1876, to secure the 
same debt and a further indebtedness of $1,000, the said 
Eonald bound himself to, and did extend the time to, Groves 
■within -which to pay said note, and agreed to forbear suit 
thereon without the knowledge and consent of said sureties, 
and that they were thereby released; (4) that the said Groves 
bas paid on account of said note, on the sixteenth of Novem- 
ber, 1876, $400, and on the fourteenth of February, 1877, 
$739.65; (5) that Groves shipped tobacco to Eonald for sale 
sufHcient to pay said note, and instructed him to so apply it, 
which he failed to do. 
So far as the foreclosure is concerned, the first, second and 
fifth defences were abandoned upon the hearing. The c'aim 
of payiLe.it of $400 on the sixteenth of November, 1876, set 
up in the fourth defence, was also abandoned, the proof being 
clear ihit Groves paid Eonald the $400 as a part and on 
account of a purchase that day made by Eonald, of Groves &amp; 
Shurley, for Groves' accommodation. It seems that Groves 
&amp; Shurley claimed that Groves was indebted to them in about 
the sum of $5,000; that Eonald undertook to settle and did 
settle the claim for $1,100, and paid $500 in cash, of which 
Groves advanced him $400 on the sixteenth of November, 
1876. 
The payment of $739.65 of February 14, 1877, is still 
insisted upon, but, in my opinion, it is not made out by a pre- 
ponderance of testimony that such payment was ever applied, 
or intended to be applied, upon the note in suit. Defendant 
Groves was a farmer and tobacco speculator, and Eonald was 
the senior member of the firm of Eonald &amp; Go., composed of 
F. S. J. Eonald and his son W. A. Eonald. 
The business of this firm was that of tobacco warehouse- 
men and commission merchants. In January, 1875, GroM;, 
applied to them to advance him money to be used by him ji 
the purchase of tobacco, which he was to consign to them. 
They exacted of him a reasonable, security, as indemn 
against loss, before they would open an account with h. ,i.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jc9yy1cj8r5qrqg1gznem6y2l4dflos</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/294</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633985</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132756</id>
      <parentid>8168983</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:49:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDBB →  FEDER,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15132756</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2229" sha1="bvq9ydtlpi20ezu0s72g6ie7etrt7x8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;286 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
In admiralty. Appeal from the district court 
B. H. Kern, for libellants. 
W. F. Smith, for appellant. 
McCeary, J. The steamboat &quot;H. 0. Yaeger&quot; left the 
port of St. Louis about the twenty-fourth of November, 1878, 
bound upon a voyage dowh the Mississippi river to New 
Orleans. On the way she grounded at a place called Kas- 
kaskia Bend, about 65 or 70 miles below St. Louis. After 
making unsuccessful efforts to free bis vessel from the bar 
on which she was fast, the master engaged the services of the 
tug-boat &quot;Wild Boy,&quot; then in the neighborhood, and owned 
by the libellants, though chartered to Burgess &amp; Go., on terms 
to be hereafter stated. The tug, with a small crew, went to 
the relief of the &quot;Yaeger,&quot; taking a barge along-side, into 
which a portion of the cargo was placed, and after some 
hours' labor the vessel was pried from the bar on which she 
was grounded and enabled to proceed upon her voyage. The 
ofËeers of the two vessels could not agree as to the price to be 
paid for these services, and henoe this suit. There was 
judgment below for $350 and the claimants appeal. Upon 
due consideration I have reached the following conclusions : 
1. That under the circumstances the steamboat &quot;Yaeger&quot; is 
not to be regarded as having been in her home port at the 
time the services were rendered. She was not in port, but 
launched and afloat, proceeding on her voyage, and, theref ore, 
clearly within the admiralty juriadiction, whether within or 
without the territorial limits of the state of Missouri. 
2. The fact that the services were rendered at the request 
of the master, and for the purpose of relieving the vessel 
from her stranded condition, raises a strong presumption that 
they were properly rendered ou the credit of the vessel, and 
were necessary ; and the claimants, in order to overcome this 
presumption, must show afSrmatively that the credit was 
given exclusively to the owners. This they have not done. 
3. At the time the service was rendered the tow-boat 
&quot;Wild Boy&quot; was in the possession of Burgess &amp; Co., who had 
chartered it. These charterers were to pay the owners $20 
ner day, and one-half of what was earned by the boat in such&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bvq9ydtlpi20ezu0s72g6ie7etrt7x8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/296</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>633987</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132758</id>
      <parentid>8168985</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:50:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: whieh → which,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., POKTER → PORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15132758</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2302" sha1="5cmdqa3p8e1uea77iaqnkijbcgcayv6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;as 8 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
McCraby, J. This is a petition iiled by J. Weil &amp; Bro. 
praying an order against the assignee of John Walrup, bank- 
rupt, directing him to return to petitioners certain dry goods 
sold and delivered by them to the bankrupt prior to the com- 
mencement of the bankruptcy proceedings, This order is 
asked upon the ground that the goods in question were ob- 
tained by the bankrupt from the petitioners by means of 
false representations as to his financial condition. There is 
some doubt upon the question whether the proof shows that 
the bankrupt obtained the goods, not intending to pay for 
them, and this, according to the ruling of the supreme court 
in Donaldson, Assignee, t. Farwell, 98 U. S. 631, must appear. 
It is not, however, necessary to go into the proof upon that 
question, for the case may well be determined upon another 
point. It is very clear that the vendor, who has been induced 
by fraudulent and false representations to part with the 
goods, must, upon discovering the fraud, promptiy disaffirm 
the contract in order to be entitled to a return of the prop- 
erty. In this case it appears, from the report of the register, 
that the petitioners not only did not comply with this require- 
ment of the law, but that they failed to take back the. goods 
■when the bankrupt offered to return them, The register, 
in his report, says : 
&quot;The faots appear to be that on receiving notice from the 
debtor of the proposed meeting of creditors for the purpose of 
securing an extension, as heretofore stated, one of the mem- 
bers of petitioners' firm called in person upon the debtor, who 
then made a proposai to return the goods, they then being, as 
now, in unbroken packages; and after some parley between 
the parties no final action was taken.&quot; 
The character of this parley we may gather from/the further 
facts stated by the register, that &quot;there is some evidence tend- 
ing to show that at the time of this interview the petitioners 
f.ndeavored to secure from the debtor some arrangement by 
which their claim would be protected,&quot; etc. I have no doubt 
that an attempt to secure the debt, or to obtain a pref- 
erence, after knowledge of the fraud, would amount to an 
affirmanee of the sale, even if not accompanied by a refusai&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5cmdqa3p8e1uea77iaqnkijbcgcayv6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/314</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634005</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132759</id>
      <parentid>14558770</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:50:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, EPORTEB → EPORTER,  PEDEBAL →  FEDERAL, removed: � (5)</comment>
      <origin>15132759</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2341" sha1="jemsyjfzoo6ulp77k95lizt2ddnvr05" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;306 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
of the bar being regulated by a set-screw, makes a good oir- 
cuit-breaker, and will be found fully described by the said 
Charles G. Page in Silliman's Journal, volume 32, pages 356 to 
358, in a communication dated April 19, 1837. This speeies 
is, however, not so simple as others, and further allusion to 
it is not necessary. A vibrating armature is preferable, as 
it requires no change of pôles to efifect its motion, this being 
produced by merely intercepting the galvanie current at snit- 
able intervais. One form of vibrating armature is shown at 
fig. 8. A small rod of soft iron, about the size of that shown 
in the figure, is mounted upon an axis or shaft, s, -which is 
supported in suitable bearings upon two pillars, r, so as to 
vibrate freely. A small electro-magnet is supported upon 
one of these pillars, and the armature is placed between its 
branches, so that one end is above and the other below the 
plane of the magnet. One end of the armature bears a 
branching copper wire, its branches passing down into mer- 
cury cups c, c'. Cup c may be partly of glass, so that the 
play of the end of the branch wire in and out of the mercury 
in the cup may be seen, and the spark produced on breaking 
the circuit rendered visible. When the magnet is charged 
the armature is attraoted towards its pôles, and around the 
ends of the armature is a ferrule of thin brass or non-mag- 
netic metal, to prevent magnetic adhesion of the armature to 
the magnet. The galvanie connections are under the base 
board and may be traced as f ollows : One pôle of the battery 
being connected with cup p, and the other with cup n, the 
current will pass along from cup p to cup c, as indicated by 
the arrow, thence upward through one branch of the wire 
and downward through the other branch into cup c'. thence 
upward again into one end of the wire around the electro- 
magnet, and, circulating around the wire coil, will pass out 
through the other end to cup n, and so back to the battery. 
The passage of the current charges the magnet, lifts one end 
of the armature, raises the branch wire from the mercury in 
the cups c, c', and breaks the circuit. This end then falls 
by its weight, the branch wire overbalancing the other 
end, the circuit is again completed, and thus it may be&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jemsyjfzoo6ulp77k95lizt2ddnvr05</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/334</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634025</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132760</id>
      <parentid>14560403</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:51:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (5)</comment>
      <origin>15132760</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2430" sha1="cc18a8jhlrrq55uiky9xesow0yzw62g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;826 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
standing said Page's invention may bave been descrîbed or 
in use prior&quot; to bis application of February, 1864, and doea 
not declare that it shall be valid, although Dr. Page might 
bave» before said application, abandoned bis inventions to the 
public ; and that, if it did so declare, it would be void. It is 
urged that Dr. Page, by withdrawing his application of Feb- 
ruary, 1854, abandoned bis inventions to the public. A con- 
sideration of all the language of the act, taken together, shows 
that oongress intended to say, and said, that Dr. Page should 
have a patent whioh «hould be valid, if he Vas the first in- 
venter of the inventions in question, notwithstanding all that 
bad taken place in regard to the prior description by Dr. Page 
of the inventions; and in regord to their use prior to his for- 
mer application, and in regard to such former application. 
The f act of the -withdrawal of the application was necessarily 
known, as it was a public record. That application had been 
rejected solely on the ground of the use by the public of the 
invention, with his presumed consent. No other form of 
abandonment was alleged, and none other is now alleged, 
except the withdrawal of the first application. Congress bas 
a right to secure to an inventer the exclusive right to his 
invention for a limited time. It bas no right to deprive any 
person of his property without due process of law. In the act 
in question it is provided that &quot;any person in possession of 
said apparatus prior to the date of said patent shall possess 
the right to use and vend, to others to use the said specifie 
apparatus in his possession, without liability to the inventor, 
patentee, or any other person interested in said invention or 
patent therefor.&quot; So far as Dr. Page's right to obtain a patent 
was alïected by his presumed consent to the public use of his 
inventions, or by his withdrawal of his first application, con- 
gress had full power, if he was the first inventor of those inven- 
tions, to exercise its sovereign power of waiving any obstacle 
arising from such consent, or from such withdrawal, by exempt- 
ing Dr&quot;. Page from the operation of the general statutory ruie. 
But neither such consent nor such withdrawal operated to vest 
in any one a right, as against the patent finally granted to Dr. 
Page, to use his inventions after the granting of such patent.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cc18a8jhlrrq55uiky9xesow0yzw62g</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/350</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634041</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132762</id>
      <parentid>8169046</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:51:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (14)</comment>
      <origin>15132762</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1995" sha1="rys38jv1j5d4ighw4zk952wnmmn81ok" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;342 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
inventer of what was covered by reissue No. 5,799, or that 
powders such as those involved in this motion did not infringe 
said reissue, or that Dittmar should withhold the testimony 
which he now brings forward. 
There must be a preliminary injunction against Dittmar 
and the Dittmar Powder Manufacturing Company, as to pow- 
ders like the samplesNo, 1 and No; 2. The plaintiff does not 
make out a case for an injunction against any of the other 
defendants. It does not offer any proof as to any articles 
made according to the Dittmar patent, and, therefore, it is 
unnecessary to refer to that patent, and none of the defend- 
ants but Dittmar and the company are shown to have been 
connected withthe said samnlpH 
Dittmar v. Eix and another. 
{Circuit Court, 8. D. New York. March 13, 1860.) 
Patent— CoMPODND Made by Patented Pkocbss. — A patent eontaining 
two claims, the one for a certain process set forth, and the other for a. 
certain compound made by the process set forth, is not infringed by the 
-manufacture of a similar compound, not made by the patented process. 
Motion for preliminary injunction to restrain the infringe- 
ment of letters patent. 
Everett P. Wheeler and Clarence Lexow, for plaintifiF. 
George Gîfford and Gausten Browne, for defendants. 
Blatchfoed, J. This is a motion for a preliminary injunc- 
tion to restrain the infringement of letters patent granted to 
the plaintiff, January 18, 1870, for an &quot;improvement in ex- 
plosive compounds. &quot; The specification states that the pat- 
entee has invented an explosive agent which he calls &quot;Dualin, 
and which is to be used instead of other explosive agents, 
such as powder, gûn-cotton, nitro-glycerine, dynamite, etc.&quot; 
It proceeds : &quot;Dualin is a yellowish brown powder, resem- 
bling in appearance Virginia smoking tobacco. It will, if 
lighted in the open air, burn without exploding ; but, if con- 
fined, it may be made to explode in the same manner as com-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rys38jv1j5d4ighw4zk952wnmmn81ok</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/398</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634090</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133005</id>
      <parentid>8169096</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (10)</comment>
      <origin>15133005</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2220" sha1="bkvbi0qxe277xv3guh0ub22l7xsdiuo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;890 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
judges of England have declared that an act of parliament 
against common right and natural equity is void. Angel on 
Corporations, § 767. 
In our own country we regard such acts as so subversive 
of natural rights as not to be within the authority dolegated 
to the legislative departaient of the government. 
It is sometimes supposed that because the constitution of 
the United States prohibits the state from passing such laws, 
and is silent as to the United States, the authority to pass 
them resides in congress by implication. This is an erroneous 
assumption. As said by Wilson, J., (13 Wend. 328,) &quot;It is now 
considered an universal and f undamental proposition in every 
well regulated and properly administered government, whether 
embodied in a eonstitutional form or not, that private prop- 
erty caimot be taken for private purposes, nor for public, 
without just compensation, and that the obligation of con- 
tracts cannot be abrogated or essentiaUy impaired. These 
and other vested rights of the citizen are held sacred and 
inviolable, even against the plentitude of power of the legis- 
lative department.&quot; 
The same views are expressed by the learned author of 
Cooley's Constitutional Limitations, (176,) as follows : &quot;How- 
ever proper ana prudent it may be expressly to prohibit those 
things which are not understood to be -within the proper 
attributes of legislative power, such prohibition can never be 
essential when the extent of the power apportioned to the 
legislative department is found, upon examination, not to be 
Iroad enough to cover the obnoxious authority. The absence 
of such prohibition cannot, by implication, confer power.&quot; 
A contract is property ; to destroy it partially is to take it, 
and to do this by arbitrary legislative action is to do it with- 
out due process of law. Sinking Fund Cases, 99 U. S. 746-7. 
If any of our own states had passed such an act as the one 
under consideration it would have been the duty of the courts 
of that state to treat it as an unlawf ul exercise of power ; and 
certainly it cannot be expected that this court will tolerate 
legislation by a foreign state which it would not sanction if&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bkvbi0qxe277xv3guh0ub22l7xsdiuo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/424</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634117</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132763</id>
      <parentid>8169127</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:51:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15132763</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1591" sha1="qsmk430rbuvebc9bt807vh80iww8d8o" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;elÇ FEDERAL REPORTER. 
Stephenson V. The Second Avenue Eaileoad Company. 
(Circuit Court, S. D. New York. January 20, 1880.) 
Patent — Re-issue — Identitt oj&quot; Invention. 
Infringement of Patent. 
Wheeler, J. The only real question presented at the 
hearing of this cause upon the pleadiuga as drawn, underthe 
law, and the evidence admissible in support of them, is 
whether the re-issued patent No. 6,697, dated Oetober 11, 
1875, is for the same invention as that for which the original 
patent No. 61,482, dated January 22, 1867, was granted. 
Upon a careful examination of each, although there are sev- 
eral things mentioned and described in the specification of 
the re-issue not mentioned or described in that of the orig- 
inal, and although the claims are quite different, there is 
nothing mentioned or described in the specification of the 
re-issue not shown in the drawings or model of the original, 
so far. as has been observed, and there is no element of any 
combination,or arrangement,or device, claimed in the re-isssue 
that is not either mentioned or described in the original as 
performing, or intended to perform, the office assigned to it 
in the reissue. Therefore, it cannot be held that the re-issue 
is for any different invention from that described in the 
original. 
Let a deeree be entered for the orator for an injunction 
against further infringement of any of the patents described 
in the bill exoept No. 1,969, dated June 14, 1864, for a 
design, which has expired, and for an account according to 
the prayer of the bill, with costs.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qsmk430rbuvebc9bt807vh80iww8d8o</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/430</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634123</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132764</id>
      <parentid>14560420</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:51:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15132764</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2356" sha1="f44ni0m2hnkk9gwj1sjhtqobp1tmjdp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;422 ïfiDEEAL REPOEÏEB. 
new right is given and a specifie relief provided for the vio- 
lation of such right, the punishment or remedy is confined 
to that given by the statuts. Sedgwick on Statutory Law, 
94. In this construction I coneur in the opinion of Mr. At- 
tomey General Devens, of April 30, 1878; but coneeding 
that the act of the defendant in detaining these letters was 
unauthorized, and tha,t the complaiuant might maintain an 
action at law for damages, it does not necessariiy foUow that 
he is entitled to an injunction. The writ of injunction does 
not issue as a matter of course, even if the complainant has 
made out a technical right to relief. An application to the 
court of chancery for the exercise of its prohibiting powers 
or restrictive energies must corne by the dictates of con- 
science, and be sancîioned by the clearest principles of jus- 
tice. The granting of an application is largely a matter of 
discretion, and is addressed to the conscience of the chancel- 
lor, acting in view of all the circumstances connected with 
the case. A party seeking this extraordinary remedy must 
aome into court with clean hands, and show not only that his 
elaim is valid by a strict letter of the law, but that in justice 
and equity he is entitled to this particular mode of relief. 
In the case of the Maryland Savings Institution v. Schroder, 
8 Gill &amp; Johnson, 93, the depositor of a sum weekly in a sav- 
mgs institution, which he was entitled to withdraw at pleasure, 
agreed with and requested the institution to convert and 
invest his deposits permanently into the stock of said Com- 
pany. Upon the conversion he received dividends and par- 
ticipated in its entire profits. The institution became insolv- 
ent, and receiving in the course of its settlement with its 
debtors its certificates of deposit and payment, which would 
absorb all available funds of the depositor, on the ground that 
a conversion of his money into stock ,was in violation of the 
charter of the company, he applied for an injunction. It was 
held that whether the charter authoriaed it or not he was not 
entitled to the restraining power of the court. In delivering 
the opinion the court observed : 
&quot;The objeet of the injunction appears to have boen, and its 
effect and operations are to prevent the officers of the cor-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>f44ni0m2hnkk9gwj1sjhtqobp1tmjdp</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/438</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634131</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132765</id>
      <parentid>8169141</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:51:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: AIi  → AL ,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15132765</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2325" sha1="k7dwu0w7kyqh1jopzy9cfktyauzta8i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;430 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
prizes.&quot; This objection is based on an erroneous reading 
of the statute. The things prescribed are (1) &quot;lotteries,&quot; (2) 
&quot;so-called gift concerts,&quot; (3) &quot;similar enterprises offering 
prizes,&quot; and (4) &quot;schemas devised and intended to deceive and 
defraud the public for the purjDOse of obtaining money under 
false pretences.&quot; The words &quot;offering prizes,&quot; qualify and 
limit the words &quot;similar enterprises.&quot; They indicate the 
nature of the similarity to &quot;lotteries&quot; and &quot;so-called gift con- 
certs,&quot; -which must oharacterize other &quot;enterprises&quot; than 
&quot;lotteries&quot; and &quot;gift concerts,&quot; to bring them alao within the 
embrace of the statute. The words are wholly unnecessary, 
and would be tautological, as descriptive of &quot;lotteries&quot; and 
&quot;gift concerts,&quot; for the offering of prizes is well understood 
to be an essential part of a &quot;lottery&quot; or a &quot;gift concert.&quot; 
This, Tve think, is the obvions construction and meaning of 
the statute. 
3. It is also objected to the first count that it omits aver- 
ments necessary to show the illegal quality of the writing set 
forth; that as setout the paper does not on its face, and with- 
out explanation, concern a lottery ; that the expression &quot;La. 
tickets&quot; is unintelligible until more than intrinsically appears 
is supplied by innwendo, and that there is no allegation of the 
existence of a lottery of and concerning which the paper was 
■written. 
It is undoubtedly an established rule of criminal pleading 
that in setting out a writing as an alleged violation of a stat- 
ute, where words constitate the gist of the offenee, if the paper 
itself, in its own terms, does not purport to be the thing pro- 
hibited.the indictment should by further averment or innuendo 
set forth that essential fact. The word &quot;lottery&quot; is not used 
in the paper set out in the first count. The expressions, &quot;La. 
tickets,&quot; &quot;ail prizes,&quot; and &quot;officiai eopy of drawings,&quot; do not, 
perhaps, necessarily refer to a lottery, although it is difïïcult 
to imagine any other subjeot to which they could be rea- 
sonably attributed, but the paper is averred to be &quot;a cer- 
taiii letter and ciroular concerning a lottery,&quot; and although 
this is an unartificial and informai mode of averring that the 
words &quot;tickets,&quot; &quot;prizes&quot; and &quot;drawings,&quot; used in the pa; er,.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>k7dwu0w7kyqh1jopzy9cfktyauzta8i</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/440</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634134</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133006</id>
      <parentid>8169145</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tlii →  thi, TEB. → TER., POKTER → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133006</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2327" sha1="ttm3ju166ufrcmzz2k0dmt8qb1riwe0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;432 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
indietment on a, motion to quash, or on demurrer, we think it 
no sufficient ground in arrest of judgment. It is quite clear 
the defendant suffered no prejudice on this account. We 
think, also, that this defect in the indietment is one of those 
defects of informai averment which, as distingushed from a 
defect consisting in the total want of an essential averment, 
is cured after verdict, even at common law. Heymann v. The 
Queen, 12 Cox Cr. G. 383; Bradlaugh y. The Queen, L. E. 32, 
B. D. 642. 
4. It is also objected to the first count that it omits necee- 
sary allegations to show that, in the sense contemplated hy the 
statute, the letter set forth was one concerninga lottery. The 
argument is that the statute was not intended to prohibit ail Jet- 
tera concerning a lottery, but only such as were designed to 
promote and further the illegal or immoral business of set- 
ting up and carrying on lotteries. It is true that where an act 
18 prohibited, and upon the necessary construction of the 
statute it is evident that the act is intended to be proscribed 
only under certain circumstances, or uponfacts coming within 
the well understood reaaon of public polîcy which led to 
the enactment of the statute, it is not generally sufficient to 
charge the offence in the words of the statute. Non constat, 
the act may be within some of the implied exceptions, (U. S. v. 
Gooding, 12 Wheat 460 ; U. S. v. Pond 2 Curt. 0. C. 265-268 ;) 
and no doubt many innocent letters may be written and sent 
by mail concerning lotteries; as, for instance, a letter from a 
man to his son, cautioning him not to be induced to spend 
his money for lottery tickets. This statute clearly has many 
implied exceptions. But we think that, assuming that there 
is, as we have held that there is, an averment in substance that 
the expressions in this letter set out referrred to a lottery, it 
does appear clearly on the face of the paper that it was 
such a letter as is within the prohibition of the statute. It 
admits of no possible meaning unless it is understood to be a 
communication in the course of a direct dealing in lottery 
tickets. Such a letter is unmistakably within the reason and 
the prohibition of the statute, 
5. The alleged defeCt in the second count is that the cir-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ttm3ju166ufrcmzz2k0dmt8qb1riwe0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/456</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634150</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132766</id>
      <parentid>14560424</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:51:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (10)</comment>
      <origin>15132766</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2204" sha1="1t7rh3b7be49h534elbzi7tgh038dkc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;448 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
but the creditors of the Lankrupt, and Shogren's equity of 
redemption in block five (5) was not destroyed. 
The assignee is not governed by the state statute regnlating 
the proceedings necessary to be followed by a mortgagor or 
creditors in redeeming. Of course the law prescribing the 
time within which the right of redemption can be exercised 
mil apply, and it cannot be extended by the bankrupt courts. 
Having fuU control over the bankrupt's estate after adjudica- 
tion, the law itself and the spirit and object of it govern the 
court in the exercise of its jurisdiction, necessary &quot;to colleet 
ail the assets of the bankrupt, * * * liquidation of liens, 
* * * and to the marshaling and disposition of the dif- 
ferent funds and assets, so as to secure the rights of all par- 
ties,&quot; etc. Section 1, Bankrupt Law. 
It is the duty of the bankrupt court to protect the rights 
and interests of the bankrupt,, as well as the creditors, and 
secure to the former all the law allows in the way of exemp- 
tions, but no more. The assignee had no title by virtue of 
the assignment to him of the block five, (5,) which was de- 
clared to be the homestead. 
The decision of the bankrupt court did not enlarge the pres- 
ent interest of the bankrupt in this homestead. His right, 
title and interest therein were only an equity of redemption, 
and by the redemption from Torenus and others the assignee 
held this block subject to this right, and the bankrupt, by 
proper proceedings, could have had his interest adjusted before 
he lost it. His homestead right in block 5 was fully recog- 
nized by the court two months before the time for redemption 
expired, and the bankrupt made no effort to ascertain the 
amount necesaary to redeem it. 
The homestead exemption act (Minn. Eev. St. § 2) pro- 
vides that &quot;such exemption shall not extend to any mortgage 
thereon lawfully obtained.&quot; The bankrupt court, on appli- 
cation, in marshaling the assets, would have, by appraisement 
or otherwise, fixed the sum necessary to be paid in order to 
entitle the bankrupt to the homestead, free from all liens. 
Instead of applying to the court, the bankrupt allowed his&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1t7rh3b7be49h534elbzi7tgh038dkc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/460</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634154</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132788</id>
      <parentid>8169167</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:57:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: ORTK → ORTE, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15132788</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2290" sha1="nyr0zd8tdait9ggljr4f5o1d1zqkxq0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;452 FEDERAL REPORTEK. 
oifio contract — ^whioh I certainly do not think commendable — 
whereby these attomeys, (two in number,) should prosecute 
this extremely doubtful claim ; they to receive a certain por- 
tion of the proceeds, with full power to compromise as they 
should please. And they prosecuted under these doubtful 
circumstances, and finally compromised, and, having eom- 
promised, the defendant company has paid this money. It 
is contended that the attorneys thus compromisiug did an 
act which is void in itself, and that without the money 
paid being returned, to-wit, about $9,000, the compromise 
may be declared void, and execution be issued for the whole 
amount of the judgment. 
I am not disposed to go into an examination of the author- 
ities, but merely state, for the purposes of the determination 
of this motion, that here express authority was given with 
regard to the matter; that this claim wafe very doubtful, and 
that in my judgment the compromise was rightly made. I 
heard the case three times, and in my opinion plaintifif would 
not have gotten a sixpence before the supreme court. I 
think that the attorney acted, so far as money considerations 
are concerned, very wisely. Should this entry be now set 
aside ? On what ground ? That the entry was made during 
a term of court on the record instead of in open court ? It so 
happens that there is no express statute of the United States 
as to entering satisfaction; but it is claimed that by analogy 
we might foUow the state statute, and if we follow that 
practice, this entering of satisfaction may be made in open 
court or in vacation, on the margin of the record. But if, on 
the facts stated, this entry is found to be void, the court 
would permit the party to appear in open court at this 
moment, merely to cure a technical error. 
Now, the difficulty arises on the face of the contract. Under 
the old common law such a contract would not bave beeu per- 
mitted. I think it would be better if the old common law was 
retained with regard to it ; but such is not the law, unfortu- 
nately. Parties, at their own expense, may pursue a doubt- 
ful demand, and, when the resuit is accomplished, the contract 
is upheld. But it is said af^ain, tint t'ie original plaintiff&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nyr0zd8tdait9ggljr4f5o1d1zqkxq0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/462</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634156</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132767</id>
      <parentid>8169169</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:51:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPORT →  REPORT, EPORTEE. → EPORTER., removed: � (12)</comment>
      <origin>15132767</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2300" sha1="2n7hvrjg0ep697pa8ba51p4d5n3zpnt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;45 e FEDERAL REPORTER. 
McCrary, J., {orally). This is a suit on bonds issued by 
the county of Ealls on the tenth day of February, 1870. 
Plaintiiï is a citizen of the state of Indiana, and brings suit 
upon the bonds in this court. There is a plea fo the juris- 
diction. No question is made as to the citizenship of the 
parties, nor is it claimed that there is anything to bar the 
jurisdiction of this court except a recent statute of the state 
of Missouri, which is found in section 5359 cf the Eevised 
Statutes of Missouri of 1879, providing as foUows: &quot;Ail 
actions whatsoever, against any county, shall be commenced 
in the circuit court of such county, and prosecuted to final 
judgment and execution therein, unless removed by change 
of venue to some other county, in which case the action or 
actions so removed shall be prosecuted to final judgment and 
execution in the circuit court of such other county.&quot; 
This is an amendment to a previous statute, which read as 
follows: &quot;Ail actions, local or transitory, against any county, 
may be commenced and prosecuted to final judgment in the 
circuit court of the county against which the action is 
brought.&quot; 1 Wagner St. 408, § 4. 
In a case against Lincoln county, brought before this court 
Bometime ago, there was a plea to the jurisdiction, under the 
original statute above quoted, which was overruled, (7 Cent. 
Law J. 264,) Judge Dillon expressing the decided opinion 
that ,the statute did not take the case out of the jurisdiction 
of this court. He further said that if the statute was in- 
tended to have this effect it would, under the ruling in the 
case of Insurance Go. v. Morse, 20 Wall. 445, be unconstitu- 
tional; and he added: &quot;We cannot assent to the conclusion 
that it is within the power of the state to create politieal 
bodies capable of contracting debts with eitizens of other 
states, and yet privileged against being. compelled to pay 
those obligations by suit in the national courts.&quot; 
It will be seen that no stress was placed upon the fact that 
the language of that act was permissive, using the word 
&quot;may&quot; instead of &quot;shall,&quot; but the ruling was put upon the 
ground that the jurisdiction of the federal courts cannot be 
interfered with by state legislation. The recent statute, if&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2n7hvrjg0ep697pa8ba51p4d5n3zpnt</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/476</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634170</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133007</id>
      <parentid>8169184</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133007</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2234" sha1="t3xca71rab9o3bbgas0parqi56hpq2s" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;468 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
Agaia, Carter's petition does not expressly or substantially 
traverse the averaient in the bankrupt's petition that the 
bankrupt carried on business in the district aforesaid for six 
months next immediately preceding the filing of this peti- 
tion. Clearly want of jurisdiction is not sufficiently shown 
by the averments of Carter's petition. His learned counsel 
themselves seem to have had doubts on this point, for they 
have moved the court for leave to amend the petition by in- 
serting the words: &quot;Nor had the said Samuel W. Groome 
resided or carried on business in the said western district 
during the six months immediately preceding the time of 
filing his petition in bankruptcy, nor during any portion of 
said six months.&quot; 
I must decline to allow this amendment, and must sustain 
the motion to dismiss Mr. Carter's petition on two grounds : 
First, for the reason already expressed, I am of opinion that 
under ail the circumstances the question of jurisdiction ought 
not to be raised by the petitioner in the manner proposed, 
and at this stage of the case; second, I think the object the 
petitioning creditor bas in view may be reached without an- 
nuUing the adjudication. His real purpose (as I infer from 
the argument of his counsel) is to prevent the bankrupt's 
discharge. Now it is entirely competent for him to oppose 
the discharge on the ground that the court bas no jurisdiction 
of the case, and if this is shown the discharge will be refused. 
In re lÀttle, 2 B. E. 294; In re Penn, 3 B. E. 582. 
I am now brought to the consideration of another motion 
made by the counsel of Mr. Carter, viz. : that he be permitted 
to take part in the examination of the bankrupt before the 
register in bankruptcy, in any hearing upon the bankrupt's 
application for his diseharge, and that the bankrupt be 
ordered to attend for such examination before the register 
upon reasonable notice, and submit to an examination by said 
Carter or his counsel. 
It bas been already stated that Carter has not proved his 
debt against the bankrupt, but this is immaterial. The faot 
that he has a provable debt is shown by the bankrupt's 
=rhprhile and otherwise, and is admitted.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t3xca71rab9o3bbgas0parqi56hpq2s</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/480</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634174</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132789</id>
      <parentid>12451912</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:57:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: t!ie  →  the ,  EEPORT →  REPORT,  PBD →  FED, BAL RE → RAL RE, EDBRA → EDERA, ORTK → ORTE, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15132789</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2755" sha1="5pv5yb06by5zyh1qjpszl5u7ve8mh8e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;472 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
Insurance CoMPANrKs— Noît-Compltance wiïh Statute of State — 
Vamditt op PoLicrBS. — By failing to comply with the requirements of 
the Arkansaa statuts, prescribing the terms upon which Insurance com- 
panies of other states may do business in that state, such companies 
and their agents and brokers render themselves liable to the penalties 
denounced by the act, but such failure does not afifect the validity of the 
policies issued by them, or in any manner operate to the prejudice of the 
policy holder. 
Same — Suit on Policy — Pkgcess — Sbevice on State Auditor — Ks- 
TOPPEL. — A statute of Arkansas provides that no insurance compan\-, 
not of that state, shall do business in the state until it has liied with tiie 
auditor a stipulation in writing agreeing that legal process aiïecting the 
Company, served on the auditor of state, shall have the same elïecl as if 
served personally on the company. Held, that if an insurance company 
does business in the state, and issues policies to citizens of the state i)n 
property within the state, that in a suit on such a policy service of pro- 
cess on the auditor was good personal service on the company, aUiiouL;li 
the written stipulation to that effect was not flled with the auditor ; that i n 
such case the company waa estopped to say that it had not flled the stip- 
ulation and had not assented to such service. 
This action was brought to recover for an alleged loss on a 
fire policy. The eomplaint alleged the plaintifï was a citi- 
zen of the state of Arkansas, and that the defendant was a 
corporation created by the laws of the state of Louisiana and 
a citizen of that state &quot;doing business and taking risks of 
insurance in the state of Arkansas, &quot; and that plaintiff paid 
the premium and the defendant issued to him the policy in 
suit. The property insured was then contained and during 
the life of the policy was to be kept in a building situated in 
the city of Helena, Arkansas, and that the loss occurred there. 
Summons was issued and duly served on the auditor of state, 
under section 3561 of Gantt's Digest, as amended by act of 
February 27, 1875. 
The defendant entered a special appearance, and filed the 
following plea, not sworn to: &quot;Now, on this day cornes the 
defendant, the Teutonic Insurance Company, and, without 
entering their appearance herein, say, by way of abatement of 
the writ in this behalf, that they never had any agent in tlùs 
state; they never had any certificate of authority, as provided 
for by the act of February 27, 1875 ; that they never, in any 
manner, complied with the laws of the state of Arkansas pro- 
viding for the duties and liabilities of foreign insurance com-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5pv5yb06by5zyh1qjpszl5u7ve8mh8e</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/492</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634187</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132790</id>
      <parentid>8169202</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:58:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (12)</comment>
      <origin>15132790</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2254" sha1="oyhpiw9e5s84cv2egueplyu144sysqa" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;4:84 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
manner or capacity, upon any work or business of such cor- 
poration, any Chinese or Mongolian, is K^ilty of a miscle- 
meanor, and is punishable by a fine of not less than $100 
nor more than $1,000, or by imprisonment in the coimty jail 
of not less than 50 nor more than 500 days, or by both such 
fine and imprisonment; provided, that no director of a cor- 
poration shall be deemed guilty under this section who re- 
fuses to assent to such employment, and has such dissent 
recdrded in the minutes of the board of directors. 
&quot;1. Every person who, having been convicted for violating 
the provisions of this section, commits any subsequent viola- 
tion thereof after such conviction, is punishable as follows : 
&quot;2. For each subsequent conviction such person shall be 
fined not less than $500 nor more than $5,000, or by impris- 
onment not less than 200 days nor more than two years, or 
by both such fine and imprisonment. 
&quot;Sec. 2. A new section is hereby added to the penal code, 
to be known as section 179, to read as follows: 
&quot;Sec. 179. Any corporation now existing, or hereafter to 
be formed under the laws of this state, that shall employ, 
directly or indirectly, in any capacity, any Chinese or Mon- 
golian, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and, upon convic- 
tion thereof, shall, for the first offence, be fined not less than 
$500 nor more than $5,000 ; and, upon the second conviction, 
shall, in addition to said penalty, forfeifc its charter and fran- 
chise, and ail its corporate rights and privileges, and it shall 
be the duty of the attorney general to take the necessary 
eteps to enforce such forfeiture. 
&quot;This act shall take effect immediately.&quot; 
It is claimed on behalf of the petitioner that this provision 
of the constitution, and the law passed in pursuauce of it, 
are void because in violation of the fourteenth amendment 
of the constitution of the United States, and the law passed 
to enforce its provisions known as the civil rights law ; and 
also of the treaty between the United States and the Chinese 
Empire, commonly called the Burlingame Treaty. 
The fourteenth amendment enacts that &quot;no state shall 
deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>oyhpiw9e5s84cv2egueplyu144sysqa</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/510</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634205</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132791</id>
      <parentid>13036659</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:58:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15132791</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2344" sha1="hv6yb0j49q09ej5j6x42887i85h7h88" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;503 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
to that treaty, or any other made under the authority of the 
United States, null and void. National or federal jiulges are 
bound hy duty and oath to the same conduct.&quot; Id. 237. And 
again : &quot;It is asked, did the fourth article intend to annul a 
law of the state, and destroy rights under it? I answer,that 
the fourth article did intend to destroy ail lawful impedi- 
ments, past and future ; and that the law of Virginia, and the 
payment under it, is a lawful impediment, and would bar a 
recovery if not destroyed by this article of the treaty. * * 
* I have already proved that a treaty can totally annihi- 
late any part of the constitution of any of the individual states 
that is contrary to a treaty.&quot; Id. 242-3. 
The case of Hauenstein v. Lynham, being an action by cit- 
izensand residents of Switzerland, heirs of an alien who died 
in Virginia, leaving property which had been adjudged to have 
escheated to the state, to recover the proceeds of said prop- 
erty, was decided at the present term of the United States 
supreme court on writ of error to the court of appeals of the 
state of Virginia. The courts of Virginia had held that, under 
the laws of Virginia, the proceeds of the property sought to 
be recovered belonged to the state; but the judgment was 
reversed by the supreme court of the United States, on the 
ground that the laws of Virginia were in conflict with a treaty 
of the United States with the Swiss Confederation. After 
construing the treaty, the court says : &quot;It remains to con- 
sider the eiïect of the treaty thus construed upon the right» 
of the parties. That the laws of the state, irrespective of the 
treaty, would put the fund into her coffers, is no objection to 
the right or the remedy claimed by the plaintiiïs in error. 
The efficacy of the treaty is declared and guaranteed by the 
constitution of the United States.&quot; 
The court cites and comments upon Ware v. Hylton, supra, 
and then proceeds : &quot;In Chirac v. Chirac, 2 Wheat. 259, it 
was held by this court that a treaty with France ga-ve to the 
citizens of that country the right to purohase and hold laud 
in the United States, and that it removed the incapacity of 
alienage, and plaaed the parties in precisely the same situa- 
tinn aa if they had been citizens of this country. The state&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hv6yb0j49q09ej5j6x42887i85h7h88</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/514</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634209</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132794</id>
      <parentid>14560438</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:58:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: Wlien → When,  EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15132794</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2327" sha1="mctkkotrg0sbn97rnjqr7kc5ghfqm4u" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;506 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
from adopting a lawf ul employaient, or from follcwing a law- 
ful employment previously adopted, does deprive them of liberty, 
as weU as property, witkout due process of law, Their right of 
choice is a portion of their liberty; their occupation is their prop- 
erty. Such a law also deprives those citizens of the equal pro- 
tection of the latvs, contrary ta the last clause of the section. &quot; 
Id. 122. 
And Mr. Justice Swayne supports this view in the follow- 
ing eloquent and emphatic language : &quot;Life is the gift of 
God, and the right to preserve it is the most sacred of the 
rights of man. Liberty is freedom from all restraints but 
such as are justly imposed by law. Beyond that line lies the 
domain of usurpation and tyranny. Property is everything 
which has an exchangeable value, and the right of property 
includes the power to dispose of it according to the will of 
the owner. Labor is property, and, as such, merits protection. 
The right to make it availàble is next in importance to the rights 
of life and liberty. It lies, to a large extent, at the foundation 
of most other forms of property.&quot; Id. 127. 
Some of these extracts are from the dissenting opinions, 
but not upon points where there is any disagreement. There 
is no difference of opinion as to the significance of the terms 
&quot;privileges and immunities.&quot; Indeed, it seems quite im- 
possible that any definition of these terms could be adopted, 
or even seriously proposed, so narrow as to exclude the right 
to labor for subsistence. As to by far the greater portion of 
the Chinese, as well as other foreigners who land upon our 
shores, their labor is the only exchangeable commodity they 
possess. To deprive them of the right to labor is to consign 
them to starvation. The right to labor is, of all others, after 
the right to live, the fundamental, inalienable right of man, 
■wherever he may be permitted to be, of which he eannot be 
deprived, either under the guise of law or otherwise, except 
by usurpation and force. Man ate and died. When God 
drove him &quot;forth from the Garden of Bden to till the ground, 
from whenee he was taken,&quot; and said to him, &quot;in the sweat 
of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the 
ground,&quot; He invested him with an inalienable right to labor&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mctkkotrg0sbn97rnjqr7kc5ghfqm4u</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/524</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634219</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133008</id>
      <parentid>8169237</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED,  FEDBB →  FEDER, PORTKB → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133008</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2305" sha1="nty9ii7phn8gnxdjbtc9rcgwnrrrj0k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;516 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
only parties, and their rights the only rights affected, Had 
the legislature, instead of prohibiting the corporation from 
doing business in the state, as a penalty for violation of the 
conditions prescribed, attempted to enforce compliance by 
criminally punishing the agent who transferred the action 
brought against the corporation from the state to the national 
court, the question would certainly have been different, and 
the statute making the transfer a misdemeanor would have 
been void; for, under the constitution of the United States, 
the foreign corporation had a right to transfer the case, of 
which the state could not by law, nor the corporation by 
stipulation, deprive it, as was held in Insurance Company v. 
Morse, 20 Wall. 445. It being lavrful to transfer, and the 
right to transfer being secured by the national constitution, 
it was incompetent for the legislature to make the transfer 
an offence, and punish it as such, in violation of the supreme 
law of the land. The act could not at the same time be bofch 
lawful and criminal. And this is the plain distinction be- 
tween the case relied on and the one now under considera- 
tion. 
The object, and the only object, to be accomplished by the 
state constitutional and statutory provisions in question is 
manifestly to restrict the right of the Chinese residents to 
labor, and thereby deprive them of the means of living, in 
order to drive those now here from the state, and prevent 
others from coming hither ; and this abridges their privileges 
and immunities, and deprives them of the equal protection 
of the laws, in direct violation of the treaty and constitution 
— the supreme law of the land. To perceive that the means 
employed are admirably adapted to the end proposed, it is 
only necessary to eonsider for a moment some of the leading 
provisions of article 19 of the state constitution. Section 1 
provides that &quot;the legislature shall prescribe ail necessary 
regulations for the protection of the state * * * from 
the burdens and evils arising from the presence of aliens who 
are or may become vagrants, paupers, mendicants, criminals, 
etc., • • • and to impose conditions upon which such 
persons may reside in the state, and to provide the means and&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nty9ii7phn8gnxdjbtc9rcgwnrrrj0k</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/528</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634223</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133009</id>
      <parentid>8169241</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133009</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2325" sha1="b3j14334v3c2z3jfuds04e32qkbvibl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;C20 FEDERA.L REPORTER. 
In view of recent events transpiring in the city of San Fran- 
cisco, in anticipation of the passage of the statute now in 
question, which have become a part of the public history of 
the times, I deem it not inappropriate in this connection to 
call attention to the fact, of which many are probably una- 
ware, that the statutes of the United States are not without 
provisions, both of a civil and criminal nature, framed and 
designed expressly to give effect to, and enforce that provision 
of, the fourteenth amendment to the national constitution, 
■which guarantees to every &quot;person&quot; — which term, as we have 
r.een, includes Chinese — &quot;withiia the jurisdiction&quot; of Califor- 
nia &quot;the equal protection of the laws.&quot; Section 1979 of the 
Eevised Statutes provides a civil remedy for infractions of this 
amendment. It is as follows : &quot;Every person who, under the 
color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage 
of any state or territory, subjects, or causes to be subjected, 
any citizen of the United States, or other person within the 
jurisdiction thereof, to the deprivation of any rights, privi- 
leges or immunities, secured by the constitution and laws, 
shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit 
in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress.&quot; 
Thus a remedy by action is given to any &quot;person,&quot; against 
any other person who deprives him of &quot;any right, privilege, 
or immunity,&quot; secured to him by the constitution, even if it 
is done &quot;under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, 
custom or usage of the state.&quot; Possibly the prisoner might 
have been liable had he, in pursuance of the mandate of the 
statute in question, and on Uiat ground, discharged the China- 
men for whose employment he is now under arrest. But it is 
unnecessary to so determine now. At ail events, he stood 
between two statutes, and he was bound to yield obedience 
to that which is superior. 
Section 5510 makes a similar deprivation of rights under 
color of any statute, etc., a criminal offence, punishable by 
fine and imprisonment. And section 5519 provides that 
&quot;if two or more persons in any state * * * conspire 
* * * for the purpose of depriving, either directly or 
indirectly, any person or class of persons of the equal pro-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>b3j14334v3c2z3jfuds04e32qkbvibl</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/532</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634227</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133010</id>
      <parentid>14560446</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: POBTER → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (14)</comment>
      <origin>15133010</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2646" sha1="9wqa59pwl50qg18ov84e3c7bnlk03is" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;624 FEDERAL REPORTER, 
As To Location and Salb bt ah Alien. — If, in the attempt by an alien 
to locate a claim, he performs all the acts necessary to a valid location 
by a citizen, and then conveys such claim to a citizen, who takes posses- 
sion and continues to perform all the conditions required by law to liold 
such claim, such citizen thereby acquires and holds a valid title to the 
claim so located by the alien, as against all persons having acquired no 
right therein before such conveyance by the alien. 
Joint Location bt Citizen and Alien. — If a citizen and an alien 
jointly locate a claim, not exceeding the amount of ground allowed by 
law to one locator, such location is valid as to the citizen, and a convey- 
ance from both of such locators to a citizen gives a valid title. 
Coeporation when Dbemed a Citizen.— a corporation organized and 
existing under the laws of California, is to be deemed a citizen in the 
sense of the act of congress of May 10, 1872. 
What 18 Actual Possession. — A person who has purchased a mining 
claim which had been properly located and marked out on the ground, 
and who is, personally or by agents, upon the claim, working and devel- 
oping it, and keeping up the boundary stakes and marks thereof, is not 
mei'cly in the constructive possession of such claim, by virtue of mining 
laws, but is in the actual possession of the whole claim. Such posses- 
sion is a ponsemo pedis, extending to the boundary lines of the claim. 
This was an action in the nature of an action of trespass 
upon a Iode mining claim, in the Bodie mining district, Cal- 
ifornia, in which the defendant pleaded title to the locus in quo. 
The case was removed from the state court to the circuit 
court of the United States, where it was tried by a jury. 
Stewmrt, Vanclief e Herrin, for plaintiiï. 
R. M. Clark and George B. Merrill, for defendant. 
Sawyee, J., (in charging jury.) Gentlemen of the jury, I 
congratulate you that we are apJ)roaching the conclusion of 
this trial. It has run through many days, but has not been 
without interest. 
The questions that bave been presented are many, and 
some of them difficult ; but the case has been thoroughly pre- 
pared. It has been zealously, exhaustively, and ably tried 
and argued on both sides. Whatever great ability, great 
zeal, thorough preparation, and a thorough knowledge of the 
subject is able to contribute, has been contributed to explain 
and illustrate this case. Science has also been called into 
exercise. You have had a glass model here, which shows you 
the internai condition of these mines. You have had another&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9wqa59pwl50qg18ov84e3c7bnlk03is</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/570</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634265</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133011</id>
      <parentid>8169288</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133011</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2272" sha1="tlxzlctt8ta3001mec2rlobbvu09kpi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;662 FEDERAL REPORTEfi. 
in substance, so that the case is now before the court upon 
the question of the sufficiency of the plea, and there is per- 
haps ineidentally involved, though it was not argued, the de- 
murrer filed by other parties. 
Enough has been stated of the character and history of 
this litigation to show with sufficient accuracy the present 
status of this case and of the parties to the litigation. And 
the attitude of the case, as it now cornes before us upon the 
amended bill and the demurrer and pleas thereto, would seem 
to be that of an independent ineasure, in course of regular 
prosecution and defence. As already stated, when the case 
was previously before ub it was supposed by the court that 
the views then expressed would resuit in a transfer of this 
whole controversy to the trustees' suit, where, in our opinion, 
it rightfully belonged. That suit had been commenced by 
the trustees and was pending when Stern filed his independent 
biU. 
The trustees' suit, as originally commenced, was one which 
involved the rights, equities and interests of ail parties in- 
terested, and it then seemed to us that it would be an 
anomaly to have pending in the same court two such suits as 
these; one brought and prosecuted by the trustees under the 
mortgage, and the other by a single bond holder, and a 
review of the status of this controversy, in connection with 
the questions whioh directly arise under the issues made by 
the amended bill, and the demurrers and pleas, does not 
incline us to recede from the position first taken. There was 
much discussion upon the argument as to whether the nature 
of the suit brought by the trustees, especially in view of the 
character of their second supplemental bill, was such that it 
could be plead in bar of the Stern suit. 
Whatever technical distinctions may be taken in this re- 
gard, we think it clear that no such relief as is asked in either 
of the bills filed in the trustees' suit could be granted with- 
out affecting the interests of the bond holders, and that no such 
relief could be granted to the complainant Stern, as is prayed 
in his bill, without affecting the trustees and other parties 
in interest. And we think it equally clear that this litigation&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tlxzlctt8ta3001mec2rlobbvu09kpi</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/572</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634267</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133012</id>
      <parentid>8169290</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., removed: � (15)</comment>
      <origin>15133012</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1981" sha1="em69up5jc27jbav067kk6ffh41objci" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;664 FEDERAL REPOP.TER. 
intended by the court to curtail or prejudice any rights which 
Mr. Stern as a bond holder bas in the premises. It is with 
the view of giving to him and to ail other parties as complete 
and just adjudication of any rights and equities which they 
have, and at the same time maintain an orderly course of 
procedure, that we take the action now contemplated. 
For the present the demurrer and pleas to complainant's 
amended bill will stand undisposed of. Proceedings in this 
case will be stayed until further order, with the right, however, 
reserved to complainant, if he shall so elect, to bave the cases 
Consolidated. 
The litigation between these parties will be transferred to 
the trustees' suit, and complainant, Stern, will have the right, 
if he bas not already done so, to take such suitable and apt 
proceedings in that suit as he may be advised, for the purpose 
of securing an adjudication of any rights to which he may 
be entitled. 
Kbllet V. Mississippi Cesteal E. Go, 
(Circuit Court, W. D. Tennessee. March, 1880.) 
CoKPORATioN — Extinction — Plea in Abatement. Where certain per- 
sonswere servod with process as the representatives of an alleged corpo- 
ration, the plaintift' cannot preclude them from pleading in their own 
names^he extinction of such corporation. 
Humes dh Poston, for plaintiff. 
James Fentress and Wright, Folkea d Wright, for defend- 
ants. 
Hammond, J. The only question to be now determined is 
wbether the persons named in the marshal's return shall be 
allowed to plead. The question here raised usually arises in 
some collateral way, and when it bas been directly presented, 
as in this case, the courts are always beset with technical dif- 
ficulties. On the one hand it is urged that a dead party 
cannot speak ; that a non-existing thing cannot, without ad- 
mitting the very question in dispute, plead in the manner it 
might if it did exist; while on the other hand it is said with&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>em69up5jc27jbav067kk6ffh41objci</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/592</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634287</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133075</id>
      <parentid>8169312</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED, AIi  → AL , TEB. → TER., removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133075</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1973" sha1="2xv6koikwszhs8mz23ojklshumepoz9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;68e FEDERAL REPORTER. 
It is obvious from the evidence that the plaintiff, at the 
very time he made this trade, ought to have been in his bed 
receiving proper medical treatment for his injuries; and he 
probably wonld bave been there if the purpose of visiting 
Little Eock to dispose of his property had not been the one 
thought fixed in his mind and in course of execution at the 
moment of the injury. In his deiirious condition, after the 
injury, he fancied that purpose must be carried out ; and his 
trip to Little Eock, while laboring under concussion of the 
brain, and suffering excruciating pain from the injury to his 
ankle, was itself an insane act, or at least an act that no 
man in the full possession of his senses would have attempted. 
A party is not bound by a contract entered into where his 
mental condition is suoh as to preclude any fair or reasonable 
exercise of the reasoning faculties. While the plaintiff's 
injuries did not produce a total eclipse of his mental faculties, 
they did so vreaken and derange them that he was not capable 
of comprehending the subject of the contract, and its nature 
and probable consequences, and he is not, therefore, bound 
by it. It is a fortunate circumstance that the carriage re- 
ceived by plaintiff from the defendants has been securely 
housed during this litigation, and that it remains in the same 
condition as when plaintiff received it, so that defendants can 
be placed in statu quo, The defendants having parted with 
the property received from the plaintiff must account for the 
fair cash value of the same at the time the trade was made, 
which is found to be $750, and 6 per cent, interest on the 
same to date of decree. 
The cross-bill of defendants, seeking to foreclose the mort- 
gage on the carriage, given to secure the $160 &quot;boot money.&quot; 
must be dismissed, and the defendants required to surre nlor 
the notes and mortgages for cancellation, and to pay ail costs.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2xv6koikwszhs8mz23ojklshumepoz9</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/602</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634297</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133014</id>
      <parentid>8169324</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15133014</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2203" sha1="ojw9szgcr3vw2hswfu3wco8vdwl11bv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;594 l'EûEiiAL REPOaTEE. 
he brought a suit, now pending in this court against Klein, 
to set aside the alleged unlawful preference acquired by him. 
But it is conceded on ail hands that the judgment and execu- 
tion of Lindsay, Sterrett &amp; Co. were valid and unimpeachable. 
At the trial of this case the defendant, Hoerr, prayed for 
the foUowing instructions, viz. : 
&quot;4. That the levy and sale by the sheriff having been made 
before commencement of proceedings in bankruptcy upon 
other executions, issued upon judgments which wereunques- 
tionably good and valid under the bankrupt law, the said sale 
cannot be impeached; and the only claim the assignee could 
make would be to the fund realized from the sale, and the 
defendant would only be liable for the amount of the fund 
received by him. 
&quot;5. That the evidence showingthat the execution of Lind- 
say, Sterrett &amp; Co. would have been entitled to the fund pro- 
duced by the sheriff's sale, if execution of defendant was 
set aside, the assignee could have no interest in said fund, 
and cannot recover. 
&quot;6. That the sale of the sheriff having been regular, and 
having taken place before proceedings in bankruptcy were 
commenced, the assignes should bave made his claim to the 
state court, which had jurisdiction of the fund, and the money 
having been distributed according to law in said court, its 
judgment cannot now be impeached. 
&quot;7. That the declaration in this case claima the value of 
the goods as damages, and the said goods having been sold 
by dus prooess of law, under a judgment good under the pro- 
visions of the bankrupt law, there can be no recovery.&quot; 
The questions raised by these four points are the question» 
of law reserved. The verdict of the jury establishes that 
Philip Hoerr's judgment and execution were fraudulent, as an 
unlawful preference under the bankrupt law. Now, it is well 
settled that a security or priority in fraud of the bankrupt 
act, gained by a suit in a state court, bas no better claim to 
protection than a payment by the debtor himself, and if the 
property of a bankrupt has been seized and sold under pro- 
cess from a state court, issued on a judgment which is void&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ojw9szgcr3vw2hswfu3wco8vdwl11bv</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/604</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634299</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133015</id>
      <parentid>8169326</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED, EDEBAL  → EDERAL ,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133015</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2014" sha1="s5alu9snabjpkk00tpyzb5iui3nkdmr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;696 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
in the defendant 's hands by the assertion of a superior title 
conferred upon him by the bankrupt law. The defendant is 
in no better position than if the money had been paid to him 
directly by the bankrupt in fraud of the law. Therefore, as 
against the assignee, he cannot retain the money. Moreover, 
Lindsay, Sterrett &amp; Co., it will be perceived, having taken 
nothing by their execution, are thrown upon the general assets 
of the bankrupt, and justice to the general creditors requires 
that the fund in the defendant's hands — the fruit of an unlaw- 
f ul execution — shall corne to the assignee for distribution pro 
rata among the creditors. 
Upon the questions of law raised by the defendant's lifth, 
sixth and seventh points the opinion of the court is with the 
plaintif. 
The verdict of the jury was for the value of the goods sold 
by the sheriiï. But clearly the defendant's liability does not 
extend so far. His writ did not authorize the sheriflf to sell 
more of the bankrupt's goods than was necessary to satisfy 
that execution. In fact the sherifF sold by virtue of three 
writs oîji.fa., andone of these was unimpeachable. Part of 
the prooeeds of sale went to the second execution creditor, 
against whom the assignee is prosecuting a suit to recover 
the money so paid to him. The extent of the defendant's 
liability is indicated in his fourth point. The sheriff applied 
to thecosts of his writ $128.45, and to his judgment $803.46, 
or in ail $931.91. The plaintifï, therefore, is only entitled to 
recover in this action the last mentioned sum, with interest 
from the time of payment to the defendant, March 6, 1876. 
Upon that basis the true verdict, on May 30, 1879, would 
have been for the sum of $1,112.62. 
And now, to-wit, February 17, 1880, it is ordered that 
judgment be entered upon the questions of law, reserved in 
favor of the plaiiitilï, ;or the sum of $1,112.63, with interest 
from May 30, 1879, ion ohsiante verdicto.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>s5alu9snabjpkk00tpyzb5iui3nkdmr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/608</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634303</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133076</id>
      <parentid>14560466</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tho  →  the , PORTEB → PORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133076</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2276" sha1="6fwprawzkt07jrqamrqtzg3qg0tj3oq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;600 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
anthority to amend or alter the specification; and that the 
specification had been sufficiently sworn to by the inventor. 
If the patent is invalid by reason of any or all of these defects 
its invalidity is to be determined in a proceeding to set aside 
the patent by scire facias, or by bill, or information. Sey- 
mour V. Oshorne, 11 Wall. 7, 96 ; Jackson v. Lawton, 10 
John. 23. 
The defendants insist in the third place that, in viow of 
the state of the art, there was an entire lack of inveutiou in 
the combination which is the subject-matter of the third and 
only claim which is said to have been infringed, or that the 
combination was old. The improved press was for litho- 
graphie printing. The invention recited in the third claim 
was for the combination of a sheet Hier with an impression 
cylinder without tapes, and a receiving cylinder provided with 
grippera and tapes, substaniially as described and specified. 
The object of the invention was to have the whole width or 
surface of a sheet of paper printed with heavy color on the 
impression cylinder, and to be deli\-ered automatically, with- 
out smuttiug, face side uppermost on the fly board or table. 
The whole width of the paper is enabled to be printed, because 
the impression cylinder is without tapes underlying the sheet. 
The sheet is taken by the grippers of the receiving cylinder 
and is delivered upon tapes running from the receiving cylin- 
der over pulleys near the roots of the fly Angers. These tapes 
are above the fly Angers, and thus prevent the sheet from 
being smutted in consequence of sliding down the smooth fly 
frame. When the sheet is in proper position it is automat- 
ically turned by the fly frame, face side uppermost, upon the 
table. 
If there was invention in this combination, and the patentee 
was the first inventor, the claim is not invalid upon the 
ground that the sheet flyer and impression cylinder have no 
conjoint action, and no active connection to produce a joint 
resuit. The combination is of the class mentioued in For- 
bush V. Cook, 2 Fisher, 668, in which case Judge Curtis says : 
&quot;To make a valid claim for a combination it is not necessary 
fhat the several elementary parts of the combination should&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6fwprawzkt07jrqamrqtzg3qg0tj3oq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/622</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634317</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133077</id>
      <parentid>8169346</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER,  KBPOR →  REPOR, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133077</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2284" sha1="t36byf9nsvs05ti63280vyc858rozx5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;614 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
kepi the tides down, the water ail runs out of tlais basin and 
leaves the flats bare where these boats lay; but the preponder- 
ance of the proof is that ordinary low water mark is within 
less than 150 feet from the westerly side of Henderson street, 
at the part of the basin where the boats lay, and that they 
were below low water mark at the time they were seized. 
This exception must therefore be overruled. 
3. The merits are clearly with the libellant. The libellant's 
boat was coming east ; the two steam canal boats were going 
west. The night was dark and rainy. The wind was blow- 
ing a violent gale; so violent that shortly before this collision 
the two steam canal boats were windbound on the berme 
bank of the canal, towards which side the wind blew. Before 
that they had been proceeding with the City of Syracuse 
ahead, pushed by the City of Milwaukee. The wind was 
so strong that this method of proceeding was abandoned as 
impracticable, and the City of Milwaukee took the City of 
Syracuse on a hawser of about 100 feet in length, and towed 
her in that way till the collision. The collision happened 
about 200 to 300 feet w-est of the &quot;wide water&quot; or &quot;ox-bow,&quot; 
near Freeport. Before the two steam canal boats got out of 
the &quot;wide water&quot; they saw the light of the Gibson ahead, 
in the canal. Her light indicated that she was a horse-boat 
and the lights of the other boats indicated that they were 
steamboats. The rules, as understood by both parties, re- 
quired the steamboats to take the berme bank side, and the 
horse-boat the tow-path side of the canal. The distance at 
which the Gibson's light was made appears, by the evi- 
dence of the master and wheelsman of the City of Mil- 
waukee, to have been from 300 to 500 feet. 
The allegation of the answer is that when the light was 
made the two steamboats were proceeding in the middie of 
the canal. The proofs show that they were not, properly 
speaking, in the canal, but still in the wide water, approaching 
and very near to the canal. But the proofs and the answer 
both show that, in order to get into their proper place in the 
canal for passing the Gibson safely, it was necessary for the 
steamboats to haul further towards the berme bank, which»&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t36byf9nsvs05ti63280vyc858rozx5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/624</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634319</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133016</id>
      <parentid>8169348</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED,  FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133016</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2339" sha1="ooxzvjxxidr782g6qmq0whzg7c9opos" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;.616 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
to throw her stern towarda the berme bank to clear the Gib- 
son, then the City of Syracuse, if she waa stretched out straight 
behind the City of Milwaukee, as the master and wheelsman 
of the City of Milwaukee say she was, was further out than 
the stern of the City of Milwaukee towards the tow-path side, 
and in very great danger of coming in collision with her, sincc 
at that time those two boats were only 100 feet apart, and 
approaching at a combined rate of three and a half miles an 
hour. These facts show conclusively that the City of Mil- 
waukee did not turn out soon enough to enable the City of 
Syracuse to clear the Gibson and fix the liability for the col- 
lision on the two steamboats, which were under one command, 
unless the Gibson is shown to bave contributed to the disas- 
ter by encroaching on the other boats, or by sheering out after 
passing the City of Milwaukee, as alleged in the answer. But 
the evidence is, I think, very satisfactory that the Gibson was 
on the tow-path side when she was struck. 
The City of Syracuse is a very sharp beat, and her stern 
struck and broke into the bow of the Gibson about two feet 
from her stern, on the starboard side, breaking two of the 
heavy iron wales, and her planking and timbers, causing her 
to sink within a vôry short time. The blow was nearly head 
on, and I see no force in the argument, upon the proofs in the 
case, that the blow pushed the bow of the Gibson in any 
doser than she was before to the tow-path. It is clear that 
if the City of Syracuse had been going straight along on the 
berme bank side, as is claimed for her, and the Gibson quar- 
tering towards that side as is also claimed, and so far over 
as to be struck where she was, her bow would not be thrown 
by the blow towards the tow-path, nor would she bave sunk, 
as the proof is that she did sink, with her bow aground, close 
by that side. To those on the two steamboats proceeding at 
an angle towards the berme bank, as is above shown, the 
Gibson may bave seemed to be sheering out upon their course, 
although in faot she was going straight, and this explains 
the contradiction in the testimony on that point. 
Great stress bas been laid by the claimants upon the fact 
testified to by some of their witnessos that in pulling out tha&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ooxzvjxxidr782g6qmq0whzg7c9opos</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/628</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634323</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133017</id>
      <parentid>8169352</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133017</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2288" sha1="bokxhtc069qngmwaka7xb71fs4sk61p" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;620 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
vicinity, below tîie bridge, are three or more piers or doclcef, to 
which it is customary for steam tugs coining up the river to 
bring canal beats. The libellant having arrived at this place 
reported his arrivai to the consignee, Mr, Banta. The con- 
signee directed the libellant to bring his boat up to his (tho 
consignee's) wharf to discharge, and offered to send him two 
men to help him pôle his boat up to that wharf, which was 
situated within what is known as the port of Hackensack, 
about a mile further up the river. 
The libellant denied the consignee's right to require him to 
do this, claiming that he had come as far as his contract 
required him to bring his boat, but offered to go up if the 
consignee would insure his boat, which the consignee refused 
to do. The parties, having come to no adjustment of the 
difference between them, then agreed to meet the next day at 
the office of the shippers of the coal in New York. They met 
there but never came to any agreement, and after remaining 
at the wharf in Hackensack, where the tug left him, several 
days, and after notifying the consigner that he must take the 
coal away if the consignee did not receive it, the libellant had 
his boat towed down the river and brought the coal to Gowanus 
basin, Brooklyn; and while the cargo was there he libelled it 
for breach of the contract contained in the bill of lading. 
The question is whether the libellant had performed his 
agreement by bringing the boat alongside this wharf below 
the bridge and offering the coal to the consignee there. If 
he had done ail that the bill of lading required itis clearthat 
he can maintain this suit for damages. The claimants, how- 
ever, insist that he was obliged to go to the consignee's wharf, 
if the consignee required it, as in fact he did. 
I think the rule of law is that where the vessel is chartered, 
or the shipment is of the entire cargo to one consignee, by bill 
of lading, and no place of discharge within the port is named 
in the contract, the charterer or consignee bas the right to 
designate the place of discharge within the port, provided 
that the place so designated is a usual and proper place. The 
Boston, 1 Lowell, 464; The E. H. Fittler, Id. 114; Davis v&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bokxhtc069qngmwaka7xb71fs4sk61p</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/648</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634343</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133018</id>
      <parentid>8169375</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: wben →  when,  FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (15)</comment>
      <origin>15133018</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2022" sha1="pb0epkzrzblf3co1pgrj3yu0bwlt7oz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;t)4U FEDERAL REPORTER. 
appears when the ownership of the coal is traced to the 
respondents. The law impliea a contract from the relations 
of the parties growing out of the transaction. Bobbins y. Welsh, 
9 Phila. E. 409; Griffiths v. Ingledew, 6 S. &amp; E. 429; R. Co. 
V. Northham, 2 Benedict's E. 1. The case is readily distin- 
guishable from an ordinary claim for demarrage where the 
obligation of the vessel is to carry to a particular port, leaving 
to it the selection of a place to unload. 
A decree must be entered for the libellants. 
Btjsset V. ExcBLsroB Manpg. Co. 
{Circuit Court, E. B. Missouri. Pebruary 5, 1880.) 
Patent— Inpringement — Damages— Evidence. — A rescindee! contract in 
relation to the payment of royalty for thie use of a patent is not com- 
petent evidence in determining the measure of damages for the inf ringe- 
ment of the same. 
Exceptions of complainant to report of master as to assass- 
inent of damages. 
Sprague e Hunt, for complainant. 
Samuel S. Boyd, for respondent. 
Trbat, J., (orally.) Complainant relied for the measure of 
damages upon a rescinded contract, wherein the respondent 
agreed that if ail or any of the several patents named therein 
■were used by the respondent, one dollar royalty for each 
stove manufactured should be paid, There was no other evi- 
dence oiïered before the master. Now, as said contract had 
no longer existence, and the court held that but two of the 
several patents were infringed, it became necessary to ascer- 
tain, in some intelligent manner, the damages sustained by 
the complainant for the use thereof. No evidence on that 
subject was offered, and thereupon the master reported nom- 
inal damages. The contention is that he should have gone 
back to the rescinded contract, and applied the terms thereof 
to the condition of affaira after such contract ceased to be 
obligatory. The court holds otherwise. The exceptions are 
overruled, the report confirmed, and costs divided as hereto- 
fore ordered.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pb0epkzrzblf3co1pgrj3yu0bwlt7oz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/666</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634361</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133019</id>
      <parentid>8169392</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PEDEBAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133019</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2216" sha1="dvsly61tjytuly1k4n1syyjb0u6wst5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;658 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
and to place him within its iuriadiction.&quot; And the court, 
in conclusion, say: 
&quot;Prom this it appears that ample provision bas been made 
for the trial of the contestation before a court of competent 
jurisdiction, for bringing the party against whom the pro- 
ceeding is had before the court and notifying him of the case 
he is required to meet, for giving him an opportunity to be 
heard in bis defence, for the deliberation and judgment of 
the court, for an appeal from this judgment to the highest 
court of the state, and for.hearing judgment thereon. A 
mere statement of the facts carries with it a complete answer 
to ail the constitutional objections urged against the validity 
of the act. The remedy provided was certainly speedy, but 
it could only be enforced by means of orderly proeeedings, in 
a court of competent jurisdiction, in accordance with rules 
and forma established for the protection of the rights of 
parties.&quot; 
In the United States v. Cruikshank, 92 TJ. S. 554, the 
supreme court again say: &quot;The fourteenth amendment pro- 
hibits a state from depriving any person of life, liberty or 
property without due process of law, but this adds nothing to 
the rights of one citizen as against another. It simply fur- 
nishes an additional guaranty against any encroachment by 
the states upon the fundamental rights which belong to every 
citizen as a member of society. As was said by Mr. Justice 
Johnson, in Bank of Columbia v. Okely, 4 Wheat. 244, it secures 
the individual from the arbitrary exercise of the powers of 
government, unrestrained by the established principles of pri- 
vate rights and distributive justice.&quot; 
In the case of Bank of Columbia v. Okely, A Wheat, 
235, last referred to, it was held that a statute of Mary- 
land, incorporating a bank and giving to the corporation 
a summary process by execution, in the nature of an attach- 
ment against its debtors, who had, by an express consent 
in writing, made the bonds, bills or notes by them drawn 
or indorsed negotiable at the bank, was not repugnant to 
the constitution of the state of Maryland, which provided 
that &quot;no freeman ought to be imprisoned, etc., or deprived of&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dvsly61tjytuly1k4n1syyjb0u6wst5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/668</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634363</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133020</id>
      <parentid>8169394</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133020</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2308" sha1="cm0iqjj3pgta1hyms14g8cgq47fzey6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;660 FEDBEAL REPORTER. 
ernment under a distresa warrant issued by the soliciter of 
the treasury, pursuant to an act of congress, was not depriv- 
ing the owner of his property without &quot;due process of law,&quot; 
within the meaning of the fifth amendment to the constitu- 
tion. It was held that &quot;due proceess&quot; was not necessarily 
and exclusively judicial process ; that the term included pro- 
cess for the collection of taxes, and that the process for col- 
lection of a balance due from a tax collector by such a war- 
rant was sustained as due process by the practice of the 
government in these states, and in England before the adop- 
tion of the constitution. 
Mr. Justice Curtis, in giving the opinion of the court, says : 
&quot;Tested by the common and statute law of England prior to 
the emigration of our ancestors, and by the laws of many of 
the states at the time of the adoption of the amendment, 
the proceedings authorized by the act of 1820 cannot be 
denied to be due process of law when applied to the ascer- 
tainment and recovery of balances due to the government from 
a collector of customs, unless there exists some other pro- 
vision which restrains congress from authorizing such pro- 
ceedings. For, though 'due process of law' generally im- 
plies and includes actor, reua, judex, regulat allegations, 
opportunity to answer, and a triai according to some settled 
course of judicial proceedings, yet this is not universally true. 
There may be, and we have seen that there are, cases under 
the law of England after Magna Charta, and as it was 
brought to this country and acted on here, in which process, 
in its nature final, issues against the body, lands and goods 
of certain public creditors without any such trial.&quot; 
But, perhaps, as full, precise and well considered an expo- 
sition of this constitutional guaranty as has been made is 
f urnished by the supreme court of the state of New York in 
the case of Taylor v. Porter, 4 Hill, 145. Mr. Justice Bron- 
son there says : &quot;The words ' by the law of the land,' as here 
used, (i. e., in the state constitution,) do not mean a statute 
passed for the purpose of working the wrong. That con- 
struction would render the restriction abiolutely nugatory, 
and turn this part of the constitution into nonsense. The&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cm0iqjj3pgta1hyms14g8cgq47fzey6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/670</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634365</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133021</id>
      <parentid>8169397</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tlie →  the, POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133021</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2265" sha1="5p3jo63o1wherj7k0hiwf4ibzofvg95" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;662 FEDERAI BBPORTER, 
ing the appropriation of private property to public use, im- 
pliedly declares that for any other use private property shall 
not be taken from one and applied to the private use of 
another.' And in Bloodgood v. The Mohawk e Hudson R. R. 
Go. 18 Wend. 59, Mr. Senator Traoy said : ' The words should 
be construed as equivalent to a constitutional declaration that 
private property, without the consent of the owner, shall be 
taken only for the public use, and then only upon a just com- 
pensation.' 
&quot;I feel no disposition to question the soundness of these 
views, but still it seems to me that the case stands stronger 
upon the first member of the clause, 'No person shall be 
deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.' 
The words 'due process of law,' in tkis place, cannot mean less 
than a prosecution or suit instituted and conducted according to 
the prescribed forms and solemnities for ascertaining guilt, or 
determining the title to property. It will be seen that the same 
measure of protection against legislative encroachment is 
extended to life, liberty and property, and if the latter can be 
taken without a forensic trial and judgment, there is no seour- 
ity for the others. If the legislature can take the property 
of A. and transfer it to B., they can take A. himself and either 
shut him up in prison or put him to death. But none of 
these things can be done by legislation. There must be 'due 
process of law.'&quot; 
These authorities would seem to be more than sufficient t» 
establish the proposition that it is not competent for a state, 
by a law declaring a judicial determination that a man is 
dead, made in his absence, and without any notice to or pro- 
cess issued against him, conclusive for the purpose of divest- 
ing him of his property, and of vesting it in an administrator 
for the benefit of his creditors and next of kin, either abso- 
lutely or in f avor of those only who innocently deal with such 
administrator. The immediate and necessary effect of such 
a law is to deprive him of his property without any process 
of law whatever as against him, although it is done by process 
of law against other people, his next of kin, to whom notice 
is given.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5p3jo63o1wherj7k0hiwf4ibzofvg95</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/672</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634367</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133022</id>
      <parentid>8169399</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: AIi  → AL ,  EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133022</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2216" sha1="7z0cqmbdfvnhha8y3pzk1oddwpsolt7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;664 PEDBEAL REPOKTBB. 
of proceedinga in admiralty causes, and some other cases 
■where the proceeding is strictly in rem, may be supposed to 
be exceptions to the rule. They are not properly exceptions. 
The law regards the seizure of the thing as constructive notice 
to the whole world, and ail persons concerned in interest are 
considered as affected by thîs constructive notice. But, if 
these cases do form an exception, the exception is confined to 
Cases of the class already noticed, where the proceeding is 
strictly and properly in rem, and in which the thing con- 
demned is first seized and taken into the custody of the 
court.&quot; 
In Walden's Lessees v. Craig's Heirs, 14 Pet. 154, the same 
court says: &quot;It is admitted that the service of process or 
notice is neoessary to enable a court to exercise jurisdiction 
in a case, and if jurisdiction be taken where there bas been 
no service of process or notice the proceeding is a nullity. 
It is not only voidable, but it is absolutely void.&quot; In Shelton 
V. Tiffin, 6 How. 186, the same court says : &quot;Had the circuit 
court which rendered that judgment jurisdiction of the case ? 
* * * No process was served upon L. P. Perry, nor does 
it appear chat he had notice of the suit until long after the 
proceedings were had. But there was an appearance by 
counsel for the defendants, and defence was made to the 
action. This being done by a regularly practicing attorney 
it affords prima fade evidence, at least, of an appearance in 
the suit by both the defendants. Any individual may waive 
process and appear voluntarily.&quot; 
The court then discusses the evidence tending to show that 
the attorney was not authorized by L. P. Perry to appear, 
and proceeds : &quot;But the appearance by counsel, who had no 
authority to waive process or to defend the suit for L. P. 
Perry, may be explained. An appearance by counsel under 
Buch circumstances, to the prejudice of a party, subjects the 
counsel to damages, but this would not sufSciently protect the 
rights of the defendant. He is not bound by the proceedings, 
and there is no other principle which can afford him adequate 
protection. The judgment, therefore, against L. P. Perry must&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7z0cqmbdfvnhha8y3pzk1oddwpsolt7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/678</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634373</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133023</id>
      <parentid>14560495</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., POKTER → PORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133023</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2373" sha1="at7f4n751ukgfb0hijizfjiaqxqihlk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;670 ÎEDEEAL REPORTER. 
ence, therefore, to the power to subject the property of absent 
persons to attachment for their debts does not tend to show 
that the process in this case was &quot;due process of law,&quot; but 
rather thecontrary; all the ordinary incidents of such process 
which alone make it &quot;due process&quot; are wanting, Nor is the 
object and design of the laws in question to apply the prop- 
erty to the payment of debts. Though that is incidentally 
provided for, their chief object, as well as their chief effeot, 
is to distribute it among the supposed next of kin, who have in 
fact no right to it. 
There can be no question, also, that it ia within the power, 
and is the duty, of the state to provide all proper safeguards 
for the protection of innocent persons who bave been led into 
mistake, to their injury, by the action of the surrogate, or 
otherwise; but, as it seems to me, this laudable and proper 
legislation must stop where it will operate to deprive another 
innocent person of his property for their benefit, There are 
some misfortunes that aven the most innocent cannot be pro- 
teoted against by the power of the state. Such is the case of 
persons who are innoeently misled into the belief that void 
judgments are valid, as in the case of a suit carried on against 
a person supposed to be alive, but in reality dead. Lorlng v. 
Folger, 7 Gray, 505; Jochimsen v. Savings Bank, 3 Allen, 87. 
In fact, this argument for the protection of the innocent 
sufferer against the consequences of the acts of another, by 
whom he has been misled into the misfortune of parting with 
his money, seems to be a misapplication of the doctrine of 
estoppel in pais. If the plaintiff has, by his conduct or decla- 
rations, induced the defendant to pay this money to the per- 
son holding the letters, then he will be estopped to deny the 
authority of that person to reçoive it; but every case of estop- 
pel in pais must rest on its own peeuliar circumstances. The 
defendant has not pleaded an estoppel in pais, but an estoppel 
by record — a judgment alleged to be binding on the plaintif. 
Nor has any court directly or plainly put the exemption of the 
defendant from liability, in a case like this, on any other 
ground than such an estoppel by record. Nor does it seem to 
me that a person remaining out of the state for however long&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>at7f4n751ukgfb0hijizfjiaqxqihlk</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/724</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634419</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133078</id>
      <parentid>14560522</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL, EPORTEB → EPORTER, DERAL BE → DERAL RE, removed: � (12)</comment>
      <origin>15133078</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2270" sha1="gb6jj3q0t9hvqoqvxhzcci6cqnnfh41" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;716 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
tins case, it seems to me impossible to be unînfluenced by the 
priee which the petitioner gave for more property than is 
in controversy in tbis case. That price was only $3,250. 
The sale to the petitioner was a public sale, after ample 
advertisement. It is difficult, of course, to lay down any 
absolute rule, even as to the reduction of the amount allowed 
by the master. We must necessarily generalize, to a greater 
or less extent, in considering a question of this kind under the 
character of the evidence. On the whole, I bave corne to the 
conclusion that I shall reduce the amount allowed by the 
master to the sum of $10,000, and for that amount a decree 
will be allowed to the petitioner, which the owners of the 
railway will be required to pay upon the execution of a deed 
by the petitioner to them. 
Wbight and others v. Thomas and others. 
{Circuit Court, D. Indiana. January, 1880. ) 
ASSTGNMENT FOR BENEFIT OF CbEDITORS — INDIANA StATD CES CONBTRUED. 
Under the statutes of Indiana an assignment for the beneflt of credit- 
toTs is not void, (1) because the assignees did net make oath that the 
indentures and schedules required by the law contained a statement of 
ail the property belonging to them, and did not malie oath to otherfacts 
named in the statute; (2) because the trustees, before entering upon 
their trust, did not make oath that they would faithfully execute the 
same, togelher with other things named in the statute ; (3) because the 
aesignees reserved in the deed the right to instruct the trustees as to their 
duties; (4) because they reserved the riglit, with the cousent of two- 
thirds in value of their creditors, to remove one or all of the trustees ; 
(S) because they authorized the trustees to scll the propei^ty on credit, or 
in any other manner that miglit seem for the best interest of all the 
creditors. 
Drummond, J. This was a bill ûled by the assignees in 
bankruptcy of Ebenezer Nutting, Frank Wright and Francis 
N. Eandolph, partners, under the style of E. Nutting &amp; Co., 
to determine the right and title to certain property formerly 
owned by the bankrupts, and also to enjoin certain creditors of 
the bankrupts from prosecuting suits to enforce liens claimed&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gb6jj3q0t9hvqoqvxhzcci6cqnnfh41</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/726</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634421</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133024</id>
      <parentid>14560526</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: AIi  → AL , EDBRA → EDERA,  EEPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15133024</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2319" sha1="moj4niaizhze4bl3x8x0pcjui7k73bx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;718 
FEDERAL REPORTBE, 
now under consideration alleges that it is claimed on the 
part of the creditors that the deed of trust of the twentieth 
of July, 1875, is fraudulent and void /or varions reasons — 
First, becanse the bankrupts did not make the oath that the 
indentures and schedules required by the law contained a 
statement of all the property belonging to them, and because 
they did not make oath to other facts named in the statute ; 
second, because the trustees, before entering upon their trust, 
did not make oath that they -would faithfully execute the 
same, together with other things named in the statute; third, 
because the bankrupts reserved in the deed of trust the right 
to instruct the trustees as to their duties ; fourth, because they 
reserved the right, with the consent of two-thirds in value of 
their crediiors, to remove one or all of the trustees; Jifth, 
because they authorized the trustee to sell the property on 
credit, or in any other manner that might seem for the beat 
interests of all the creditors. 
The general question in the case is whether the assign- 
ment made by the bankrupts in trust for the benefit of all 
their creditors was valid, or whether, on account of any or all 
the reasons named in the bill or presented in the argument 
on the demurrer by the defendants, it is fraudulent and void. 
Independent of the bankrupt law of the United States, there 
can be no doubt that it was competent for the bankrupts to 
make such an assignment as that named in the bill. Being 
insolvent, it was the most equitable distribution that could be 
made of their property to divide it equally among all their 
creditors. Then, unless the assignment was rendered invalid 
by virtue of the bankrupt law of the United States or of the 
provisions of the state law already referred to, it must be con- 
sidered a valid assignment. If it was inoperative, by virtue 
of the bankrupt law, then the property, being all in the pos- 
session of the assignees in bankruptcy, the object of the 
bankrupt law is accomplished, and it is ready for distribution 
to the creditors of the bankrupts according to the terms of 
that law; and so there coula be no objection to the bill on 
the ground that the assignment was invalid under the opera- 
tion of a banKrupt law.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>moj4niaizhze4bl3x8x0pcjui7k73bx</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/730</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634425</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133025</id>
      <parentid>14560529</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2248" sha1="rw19fzuyxd3wuljl3djb17abhts8ek0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;723 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
MoMiLLAN and others v. Eees and others. 
{Circuit Court, W. D. Peanaylvania. March 22, 1880.) 
Two Patents fob Samb Ikvbntion. — Of two patents for the sama 
invention the one last granted is void, although it may have been flrst 
applied for. 
Same — How Identity of Invention is Dbtermined. — &quot;Whether two 
patents cover the same invention must be determined by the tenor and 
Bcope of their claims, not by the description in the speciflcations. 
Sbpabatb Patents fob Beverablb Parts of Same Invention. — Sep- 
arate patents for severable parts of the same invention may be pat- 
ented, although the whole invention is fully described in each of them, 
to explain the purpose and mode of operation of the parts covered by 
the claims in such patents. 
CoMBiNATioN OF Patented Devich -wiTH Otheb Deviœb. — The con- 
nection or combination of a patented device or improvement with other 
devices may be the subject of a valid subsequent patent. 
In Equity. 
Bakewell de Kerr, for complainanta. 
Eowland Cox, for respondents. 
McKennan, J. In McMillan v. Barclay the patent upon 
which the present bill is founded was contested upon various 
grounds, all of which were fully considered by the court, and 
a decree was rendered in favor of the complainant. No 
question is now made touching any of the specifie defences 
set up in that case, but the patent is assaUed for a reason 
not before suggested. It is urged that the patent, No. 63,- 
917, set up in this case, is a duplicate of patent 52,730, 
granted to the same persons and for the same invention. 
On the twenty-third of July, 1855, the patent involved in 
this case was applied for, and was disallowed by the commis- 
sioner of patents on the twenty-fifth of August, 1866. After 
repeated efforts to obtain a rehearing, in the early part of 
1867, the applicant amended bis specification, and again 
pressed his application for consideration. 
This amendment consisted in a modification of the claim, 
the body of the specification and the drawings remaining 
unchanged. A re-examination was finally made, and a patent 
granted on the sixteenth of April, 1867, This patent is for 
&quot;an improved application of steam power to the capstana of&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rw19fzuyxd3wuljl3djb17abhts8ek0</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/744</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634439</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133026</id>
      <parentid>8169461</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="2109" sha1="ozr03azpny8y5v96ncnbtyfvnv3rye5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Î36 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
supposing that they had undertaken a salvage service. Noth- 
ing was said by either party at the time ; and if the wind 
had gone down rapidly, and the barkentine had been towed to 
Boston without much difficulty, we might never have heard 
of a salvage claim. But matters did not turn out in this 
way. There was difficulty and danger, and another tug was 
obliged to corne to the assistance of the libellants, to prevent 
serions danger if not loss to the Frank Lambirth. That tug 
was undoubtedly a salvor, and bas been paid as such siuce 
the case left the district court. 
Upon the whole evidence, which was very elaborate and 
full, I am of opinion that the Frank Lambirth was in danger 
at the time the tug WooUey came up. I think there had 
been one failure to tack. Some of the witnesses deny this, 
but they are, perhaps, referring to a later period than at 
which the second mate of the barque says that they did try 
to go about without success. Whether he is aceurate or not, 
I think the vessel either was, or was thought to be, unable to 
tack, and would bave found it necessary to come to anehor in 
a very short time; and, as she was on a lee shore, there can 
be no doubt that if she had been at anehor there would bave 
been, as the wind and sea then were, need of speedy relief. 
I do not think that the libellants were as careful as they 
should bave been in respect to the scope of hawser, and it is 
not improbable that the parting of the hawser would not 
bave occurred if more scope had been given. But I am not 
at ail sure that this accident had much effect upon the resuit 
of the adventure. Without it the tug must bave had assist- 
ance, and the assisting tug would bave been a salvor. 
Upon the whole, while I would not encourage any real or 
Bupposed readiness which owners of tugs may bave to con- 
vert a simple towage service into one of salvage, I find 
that the peculiar facts of this case relieve it of any such 
appearance. 
ïhe amount awarded was liberal, but no serions objection 
was raised to it. 
Decree affîrmed, with costs.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ozr03azpny8y5v96ncnbtyfvnv3rye5</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/750</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634445</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133027</id>
      <parentid>8169467</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="2282" sha1="kzn2kpkywdu0jc0weylidlm7cl4vi3e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;r43 
FEDBEAL REPORTER. 
be oHiged to state that the man claimed to represent the 
defence, and leave no time to disabuse tbeir minds, 
He furilier says that his action in maintaining his position 
for an acquittai upon the jury was in accordance with his 
judgment upon the evidence, as confirmed by the charge of 
the court, and that, added to this, the information that he 
had received as before stated, convincing him of indirect 
methods having been used to influence him, the respondent, 
impelled him to maintain the innocence of said Eothschild 
on the jury to the last. He further denied receiving money 
or any other consideration for his vote upon the jury, and 
submitted that his conduct had been free from censure. 
S. M. Cutcheon, District Attorney, and H. J. Bealces, for 
the government. 
John Atkinson and Theodore Romcyn, for respondent. 
Beown, J. By Eey. St. § 725, the power of the federal 
courts to punish for contempts is limited to three classes of 
cases : First, a misbehavior of any person in the presence of 
the court, or so near thereto as to obstruct the administration 
of justice; second, misbehavior of any officer of the court in 
his oiEcial transactions; and, third, disobedience or resistance 
of any ofScer, party, juror, witness or other person, to any 
lawful writ, process, order, rule, decree or command of the 
courts. Ex parte Robinson, 19 Wall. 505, 511. 
It is not necessary here to discuss the question whether, in 
the absence of the express order of the court to the jury to 
refrain from conversing with any one regarding the case, a 
juror could be punished for such misconduct. It would seem, 
hovrever, that such violation of duty might be reaohed under 
the first class of cases, as the misbehavior of a person so near 
the presence of the court as to obstruct the administration of 
justice therein. The act does not deane how near the court 
the misbehavior must be, nor the character of such misbe- 
havior, and I think it may be fairly construed to extend to 
any misbehavior by a juror, in his capaeity as such, -wherever 
committed, siuce such misbehavior necessarily tends to ob- 
struct the administration of justice. U. S. v. Devaughan, S 
Gr. G. C. 84; State v. Doty, 32 N. J. 403. Otherwise it would&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>kzn2kpkywdu0jc0weylidlm7cl4vi3e</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/762</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634457</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133028</id>
      <parentid>8169480</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (10)</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2252" sha1="p2agw9ufoeh961muj1b16gsln6gzfza" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;754 KEDEEAL REPORTER. 
the court would have said : &quot;You must corne into this tribunal 
with clean hands; you must do equity before you can seek 
the aid of a court of conscience.&quot; 
The contention of the railroad company is that it should 
be permitted to take possession of the property in controversy 
without process or legal proceedings. While I am clear that 
the contracts under which the property is held by plaintiff 
are ultra vires, there is a dispute upon that subject, and such 
a dispute as in my judgment cannot be determined by the 
railroad company of its own motion. 
The right of rescission does not justify the railroad com- 
pany in taking possession ezcept by lawful means. The 
plaintiff has a right to be heard upon issue joined in a proper 
proceeding before being ejected. The present question is not 
■whether the contracts should be rescinded and the property 
restored to the railroad company, but whether this should be 
done by the railroad company upon its own motion, and in a 
way to deprive the plaintiff not only of a hearing in the regu- 
lar course of this court, but also deprive it of the right of 
appeal. 
It is one thing for me to hold that the contracts are in my 
judgment ultra vires, and quite another to say to the railroad 
company, &quot;You may tum the plaintiff out and take posses- 
sion without giving it a day in court.&quot; 
An injunction will often be granted to restrain a party from 
deciding for himself a question involving controverted rights, 
and to compel him to resort to the courts, and this without 
regard to the absolute merits of the controversy. It is enough 
that there is a controversy to justify a court of equity in direct- 
ing that it be settled by legal proceedings. Eckelkamp v. 
Schroeder, 45 Mo. 505 ; Varick v. New York, e John. Ch. 53 ; 
Dudley V. Trustees, 12. B. Monroe, 610; Farmers v. Beno, 53 
Pa. St. 224; Sunsing v. Steamboat Co. 7 John. Ch. 162. 
The prineiple settled by these and many other cases is that 
a party who is in actual possession of property, claiming under 
color of title, is not to be ousted, except by the means provided 
by law, and such a possession the court will protect by in- 
junction from disturbance by any other means. For this&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>p2agw9ufoeh961muj1b16gsln6gzfza</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/766</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634461</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133029</id>
      <parentid>8169484</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133029</origin>
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      <text bytes="2248" sha1="airauv8tanmaswegh4jyi37yi90x381" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;758 FEDERAL REPOBTEE. 
From the statements in these receipf.s King supposed that 
Gill had made an assignaient to him of the mortgage on the 
margin of the record; btit, in faet, Grill did not assign the 
mortgage of record. This, however, was not discovered by 
King until after Gill had absconded. Within three days after 
Gill had left, King gave formai notice of his claim to Ham- 
ilton Lacock. 
On September 11, 1877, Lacock paid Gill, for King, the 
first instalment of interest, for which Gill gave Lacock a 
receipt which states that the mortgage ia &quot;now held by Mr. 
Wm. G. King.&quot; This interest Gill paid over to King. S. B. 
W. Gill was a member of the Pittsburgh bar, and until he 
left, in September, 1877, his professional standing was good, 
and he possessed the confidence of the community. 
I bave been thus particular, in stating every fact which I 
regard as material, bocause I am constrained to dissent from 
the conclusion of the learned master in respect to the con- 
flicting assignments to PoUock and King, which he thus states : 
&quot;Neither of them being entered of record in the recorder's 
office, on the margin of the recorded mortgage, it is simply a 
question as to whose assignment was first delivered.&quot; And, 
treating the assignment to PoUock as delivered when it was 
deposited in the post-office on April 9, 1877, he reports a 
decree in his favor for the portion of the mortgage assigned 
to him. But the case, it seems to me, is not one for the 
application of the maxim, qui prior est tempore potior est jure^ 
There are here other considerations besides that of time, 
which cannot be ignored if we would reach a just conclusion. 
Mathew M. Pollock, it must be observed, parted with no 
money or other valuable thing upon the faith of the Lacock 
bond and mortgage. He had left in Gill's hands $1,000, to 
be by hina invested in a mortage at his discretion ; and uot 
in this particular mortgage, which was not then so much as 
mentioned. 
In confiding his money to Gill, Pollock, in the first instance, 
trusted exclusively to his personal responsibility and integrity. 
His subsequent arrangement with Gill, which the latter carried 
ont, was for an assignment which was entirely inadec[uate for&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>airauv8tanmaswegh4jyi37yi90x381</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/774</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634469</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133030</id>
      <parentid>14558831</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL, PORTEB → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133030</origin>
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      <text bytes="2279" sha1="hyoe503ndql07zybd7hwbjybps974k0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;766 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
choose to contract that any wilfully false swearing to a mate- 
rial fact shall defeat the claim, the courts may hold them to 
their agreement without a violation of principle, and may, 
perhaps, look to the policy as a whole, to ascertain what th» 
parties cousider a material fact. 
There are a few cases in which perjury in respect to facts 
required to be disclosed, such as title, etc., has been held to 
■work a forfeiture, under the contract of the parties, although 
no court or jury oould have said that any attempt to defraud 
the Company had been made. If the courts have used the word 
&quot;fraudulent&quot; in qualifying such a statement, they must be 
understood by the context as using the word, in a somewbat 
loose sense, for dishonesty, in a material particular, without 
intending to change the definition of fraud, which did not 
enter into the question. I do not know whether there ara 
many such cases. Even in construing this broad condition, the 
distinction between perjury and fraud has sometimes been 
insisted on, as in Marion v. Great BepubUc Ins. Co. 35 Mo. 
148. I do not think it necessary to inquire whether the 
preponderance of authority is one way or the other on this 
point, when there is a distinct stipulation against false 
swearing. 
Two cases are cited by the defendants as laying down the 
rule which they say should govern this case. In Park v. 
Phœnix Ins. Co. 19 Q. B. (Upper Canada,) 110, £2,500 were 
underwritten on buildings and machinery by the defendants 
and othei-s who were to contribute, and the loss was sworn at 
£3,750, The condition of the policy avoided the claim, &quot;if 
there appears any fraud, overcharge, or imposition, or any 
false swearing.&quot; Page 119. The sixth plea averred an &quot;over- 
charge,&quot; in that £3,760 was said to be the loss, when in 
truth it was but £1,500. The seventh plea averred' fraud in 
this : that, with the intent to impose on the defendants and 
procm-e them to pay more than the loss, which was £1,500, 
they delivered a false and fraudulent account. The eighth 
plea set up false swearing in stating the loss at £3,750, when 
it was only £1,500. The chief justice charged the jury that, 
in order to defend successfully under either the sixth or sev-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hyoe503ndql07zybd7hwbjybps974k0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/788</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634483</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133032</id>
      <parentid>8169508</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: fuUy → fully (5),  FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (11)</comment>
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      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2200" sha1="1cgxu1fjup3shsvu7whruss1q66980n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;780 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
The indictment is founded on section 5486 of the Eevised 
Statutes. 
The first count charges the defendant with wrongfully with- 
holding from one Andrew J. Henderson, a pensioner of the 
United States, certain moneys which came to the defendant 
as an agent and attorney of the said Henderson. 
The second and third counts charge him with being instru- 
mental in prosecuting the claim of Henderson for a pension, 
and, being so instrumental in the prosecution of the claim, 
withholding wrongfully from him certain moneys of the pen- 
sioner. 
The first question made is as to the validity of the counts 
in the indictment upon which he was found guilty. 
It is sufficient ordinarily, in cases of a misdemeanor, to 
allege .he offence in the language of the statute ; and to state 
that the defendant was instrumental in presenting the claim 
of Henderson for a pension, without setting forth the partic- 
ular circumstanoes in which that instrumentality consisted, 
was ail that was requisite in this case. 
The main offence, if any, was in wrongfully withholding 
money from the pensioner. The law punishes a person be- 
cause, being instrumental in the prosecution of a claim for a 
pension, he is presumed to bave a special connection with the 
circumstanoes which constitute the gravamen of the charge. 
And it seems, for that reason, to declare that no person who 
bas this connection with the prosecution of a claim shall be 
permitted unlawfully to withhold money from the pensioner. 
There is another question in the case growing out of the 
legislation of congress as to the description of the offence. 
The thirteenth section of the act of July 4, 1864, declared 
that no agent or attorney should demand or receiye any 
greater compensation than that prescribed in the act ; and it 
also declared, in language somewhat similar to a portion of 
section 5485 of the Eevised Statutes, that if an agent or 
attorney wrongfully withheld from a pensioner any part of a 
pension or claim allowed he was to be deemed guilty of a high 
misdemeanor, and punished as prescribed in the statute. It 
will be seen that in this section, while the &quot;withholding&quot; fol-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1cgxu1fjup3shsvu7whruss1q66980n</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/792</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634487</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133079</id>
      <parentid>8169513</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER,  BBPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (12)</comment>
      <origin>15133079</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2213" sha1="4hkfwm4yuolh3kljpssodcffcuih9d6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;784 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
over to the pensioiiQr ? Is it not naturel that the transaction 
should have been as Mrs. Henderson tells you it was?&quot; etc. 
Now there were two theories, one on the part of the pros- 
ecution and the other on the part of the defence, as to how 
the defendant got possession of the money. And, in com- 
menting upon the testimony bearing upon this point, the 
court asked whether one theory was not the probable or 
natural theory, rather than the other. The court made no 
assertion that it was, but merely put the question to the jury. 
There was no withholding from the jury its right to determine 
what the facts were. I cannot see that it was going outside 
of the province of the court to put it in this form. It might 
have been put in this way: &quot;Which is the more probable or 
natural of these two theories (referring to the one and to the 
other) it is for you to say.&quot; I do not think, although it is 
put in a little different form, that the jury could have under- 
stood that they were deprived of the right to judge of the 
facts, or that they were unduly influenced by the court in 
ietermining, according to their own views of the facts, the 
truth of the case. 
United States v. Baugh. 
{Circuit Court, M. D. Virginia. January, 1880.) 
Bmbezzlement — Lbtter Containing Trbasuby Notes — Informa- 
tion — llBV. St. § 5467. — In a proseoution by information, under .section 
5467 of the Kevised Btatutes, for the embezzlement of a lettercoutaining 
treasury notes, by a person in the employ of the postal service, it is not 
necessary to allege ownership of the notes in some person other than 
the accused, where the taking or stealing of the notes is alleged by 
way of description, for the purpbse of bringing the oiïence fully within 
the terms of definition employed by the statute. 
Same — &quot;iNFAMOus Crime &quot;—Amendmbnt to Constitution, Art. 5. — 
This statulory offlence is not an &quot; infamous crime&quot; within the meaning 
of the flfth amendment to the constitution, precluding a prosecution by 
information. 
Motion in arrest of judgment, after vei'dict, upon prosecu- 
tion by information for a violation of section 5467 of the 
Eevised Statutes.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4hkfwm4yuolh3kljpssodcffcuih9d6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/796</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634491</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133205</id>
      <parentid>14560546</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EPORTEE. → EPORTER.,  BEPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (10)</comment>
      <origin>15133205</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2217" sha1="a0h4aeo6oiocxfvxm4duaw5pskkm1qs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;788 FEDBEAL REPORTER. 
much of the confusion which exists in the minds of many of 
our best lawyers upon the question now raised in this case. 
By the Virginia statute, all offences are declared to be 
felonious which are punishable capitally, or by confinement 
in the penitentiary ; and if this statute prescribed a rule of 
decision for the federal courts in the state when trying crimi- 
nal offences against the United States, there is no doubt that 
the defendant at bar could be tried for bis offence only upon 
an indictment, inasmuch as the offence is punishable by hard 
lahor, which is not necessarily, but is generally, a species of 
punishment inflicted only in a penitentiary. But this state 
statute does not apply at all in the federal courts in crimi- 
nal trials. The rules for our procedure in such cases are 
derived from the common law. See XJ. S. v. Reid, 12 How. 
561. 
Under the federal laws, nothing is felony unless expressly 
60 declared to be by congress, with exception of capital 
offences. And it bas always been the policy of congress to 
avoid, as much as possible, the multiplication of statutory fel- 
onies. See 1 Greenleaf on Evidence, § 373; apd 1 Whar. 
€rim. Law, § 760. 
I may add that informations are never brought in this 
court except after formai complaint under oath, and full 
«xamination before a commissioner of the court wherein the 
witnesses testify while confronted by the accused; nor are 
ihey filed except by leave of court. In the case at bar the 
information was filed upon motion for leave to do so, in the 
presence of the accused and his counsel, without objection on 
their part or offer to show cause to the contrary. 
On the whole, therefore, I must overrule the objection in 
arrest of judgment founded upon the fifth article of the 
amendments to the constitution. 
2. I have already virtually disposed of the second objec- 
tion, viz., that this is an information charging larceny, and, 
for that reason, is defective in not charging ownership of the 
treasury notes in some person other than the accused. I 
have already shown that this is a prosecution for the embez- 
zlement of a letter, and that one of the ingredients of the&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>a0h4aeo6oiocxfvxm4duaw5pskkm1qs</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/798</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634493</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133033</id>
      <parentid>14627550</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133033</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2214" sha1="n1zgezr6adlrliwjdwomgr183rhg5ty" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;790 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
between citizens of different states, * » • either party 
may remove saià suit into the circuit court of the United 
States for the proper district. And when, in any suit men- 
tioned in this section, there shall be a controversy which is 
wbolly between citizens of different states, and which can be 
fully determined as between them, then either one or more of 
the plaintifïs or defendants actually interested in such con- 
troversy may remove said suit into the circuit court of the 
United States for the proper district. &quot; 
The suit is a creditor's bill brought to reach property in the 
hands of the Keokuk Northern Line Packet Company, and 
certain other property held by Peyton S. Davidson, to be 
applied in satisfaction of judgments separately obtained by 
the plaintiffs against the Northwestern Union Packet Com- 
pany in 1873 and 1874. The complaint charges that in 
March, 1873, there was a fraudulent transfer made by the 
defendant, the Northwestern Union Packet Company, of all its 
steamboats, barges and other personal effects to the defend- 
ant, the Keokuk Northern Line Packet Company, which 
ought in equity to be now applied in satisfaction of th&amp; 
plaintiff's judgments. And, also, that about April 1, 18T3, 
there was a fraudulent conveyance by the Northwestern 
Union Packet Company of certain lots and real estate, sit- 
uate at La Crosse, to the defendant Peyton S. Davidson, 
which they are also entitled to have applied toward the pay- 
ment of their said claims. The Northwestern Union Packet 
Company bas not been doing business for many years, was 
not served with process, and makes no appearance. The 
Keokuk Northern Line Packet Company contends that there is 
a controversy between citizens of different states, and, also, 
that there is a controversy in the case that is wholly between 
it and the plaintiffs, who are citizens of the different states, 
and which can be fully determined as between them, within 
the meaning of section 2 of the act of 1875, so as to entitle 
it to a removal to this court. 
The plaintiffs contend that the suit is one controversy, and 
that no removal can bô allowod, because all of the defendants&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>n1zgezr6adlrliwjdwomgr183rhg5ty</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/810</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634505</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133093</id>
      <parentid>8169534</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: BKAL → ERAL, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133093</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2194" sha1="smfc8kbalpaxjef1pnpv1atdn7sp4jt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;802 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
The hogs were bought in the name of Anderson, Hamilton 
&amp; Co., and the product was also sold in their name. A new 
set of books was opened, and the transactions relating to said 
business were entered under the name of Anderson, Hamil- 
ton &amp; Co. After making this contraet, and while the pork 
paeking season. was going on, Swearingen &amp; Biggs continued 
their business as before, at the same store, and Anderson, 
Hamilton &amp; Co. continued their office at the same place as 
before, kept up their separate books in the name of Ander- 
son, Hamilton &amp; Co., and borrowed money and did business 
in that name as before. Neither of these firms had any 
interest in the business of the other, except the joint interest 
in the hog product of that season. In the course of their 
business a large amount of paper was drawn by Swearingen 
&amp; Biggs upon Anderson, Hamilton &amp; Co., and accepted by 
them, generally, in favor of Hamilton Bros., who indorsed 
the paper, which was also indorsed and negotiated by Wil- 
liam B. Hamilton. Amongst the paper so negotiated were 
the bills proven in this case by the bank of Kentucky, amount- 
ing to 180,000. 
In June, 1876, the conjoint firm was dissolved by reason 
of great financial embarrassment, and the control of the hog 
product and the other assets of the joint account was trans- 
ferred to Swearingen &amp; Biggs. On the twenty-sixth of June 
an agreement or settlement was made between the conjoint 
firm and its creditors holding paper drawn, accepted and in- 
dorsed as above stated, by which it was agreed that upon the 
turning over by Swearingen &amp; Biggs to a trustee (William 
Hughes being afterwards named by the creditors as such 
trustee) of ail the hog product and other assets of Anderson, 
Hamilton &amp; Co., and paying the creditor $66,000 in 6, 
12 and 18 months, with interest, securing the same upon 
real estate, and by warehouse receipts upon whisky of Swear- 
ingen &amp; Biggs, the creditors would obligate themselves not to 
sue Swearingen &amp; Biggs, and to acoept such hog products and 
the sum of $66,000 in full satisfaction of the liabilities of 
said Anderson, Hamilton &amp; Cq. and Swearingen &amp; Biggs,&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>smfc8kbalpaxjef1pnpv1atdn7sp4jt</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/816</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634511</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133034</id>
      <parentid>8169540</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: wliere → where,  FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL, DERAL BE → DERAL RE, POKTER → PORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133034</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2284" sha1="bv3vgjq7i2popuodf9901yos35s4km9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;. 808 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
position with the maker of the notes, whereby the maker 
conveyed certain properfcy in trust to pay one-fiftii of the 
debts, which the creditor accepted, reserving his remedy 
against the indorser. Here there was an agreement accepted 
by them to receive a specifie sum, not an uncertain amount, 
to be made certain by the sale of property, and the court held 
it to be substantially a payment of that amount. It was also 
held in that case that the other creditors, who had made proof 
of their claims against the indorsers before they entered into 
the composition with the acceptors, were entitled to prove the 
full amount due upon their bilis. 
In re Hicks, 19 N. B. B. 299, the makers of the notes 
effected a composition with their creditors, the composition to 
be paid in three, six and nine months, for which notes were 
given. The creditor was offered the notes to which he was 
entitled, but refused to receive them until the twenty-fifth of 
September, 1878, when, one of them having matured, he 
accepted cash for that note and the other two notes. Mean- 
while, on the ninth of September, the indorsers having been ad- 
judicated bankrupts, the creditors proved against their estates 
for the full amount of the original notes. The learned judge 
for the southern district of New York held that as, at the 
time the proof was made against the indorser, no dividend 
had been paid or become payable to the creditor out of the 
estate of the maker, he was entitled to prove against the 
indorser for the whole debt. The case seems to be distin- 
guishable from that of Sohier v. Loring only in the fact that 
he refused to receive the composition notes until after he had 
filed his proof of debt. 
But both of these cases are clearly distinguishable from 
the one under consideration, in the fact that the compromise 
with the conjoint firm was for no specifie amount of money, 
but for certain p*operty, the value of which was not deter^ 
mined until long after the proofs of debt were made. The 
property received by the trustee might not have paid more 
than 50 per cent, had the market taken a decided upward 
turn. It might have realized the entire amount 3f 'beii 
claims, but it was difficult, at the time the agreemeni was&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bv3vgjq7i2popuodf9901yos35s4km9</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/838</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634533</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133080</id>
      <parentid>14644057</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER,  BBPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133080</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2248" sha1="7aysuwhbrp48u2hns757gmebcmlohld" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;830 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
as between himself and his copartner, took it as money, could 
not well be made out. 
If it is suggested that the mere payment of money into the 
firm operated ■yjso facto, and because it was money, as a dis- 
charge of that amount of the indebtedness of Belknap to his 
copartner, whether the copartner knew of it or not, and 
whether he consented to it or not; it may be answered, so far 
as this case is concerned, that it is not proved that Belknap 
was then indebted to his copartner in account ; but if the par- 
ties desire to have the true state of that account appear, in 
case of an appeal, leave will be given to show the facts. But 
another answer is, that to hold that payment of the money 
in, without the knowledge and consent of the copartner, oper- 
ates, because it is money that is paid in, as a payment, would 
simply be to apply to the case blindly, and without regard to 
its reason and nature, the maxim that money has no ear- 
mark. 
As above pointed out, this rule goes no further than this 
in proteoting the receiver of money, and extinguishing the 
former title ; that the title changes only where the money is 
received as money, with the bona fide belief on the part of 
the receiver that it was the money of the party paying it. 
Clearly, Franklin M. Ketchum, if his rights as an individual, 
in his relations to his copartner, are considered — and it will 
be observed those are the only rights entitled to considera- 
tion — was not such a receiver of this money. It must not be 
lost sight of in this matter that if the firm is not liable for 
the money received and used by the firm, through Belknap, 
with fuU notice of the rights of Morris Ketchum in it, it is an 
exception from the well settled rules of the law of partner- 
ship, which, for strong reasons of public policy and justice, 
make the act of one partner, in the course of the firm's busi- 
ness, the act of all, and the knowledge of the one partner, in 
the like case, the knowledge of ail; and the equity of the 
innocent partner, which is strong enough to countervail and 
override this well settled and ]ust rule of law, must be a real 
equity, based on the actual existence of facts, which would ren-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7aysuwhbrp48u2hns757gmebcmlohld</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/854</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634549</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133035</id>
      <parentid>8169583</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTKB → PORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133035</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2305" sha1="infdgnonsbddjnmqo6p64qpvvn9c2dk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;846 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
the bankrupt had a large amount of money and personal 
property, which, with the knowledge and connivance of his 
voluntary assignee, and to defraud his creditors, he was per- 
mitted to use as his -own in continuing his business. That 
part of his property, if any, which he did deliver to the 
voluntary assignee was delivered in form only, and really 
remained subject to the control and use of the bankrupt in 
his business, the assignee permitting the money to be depos- 
ited in a bank account opened in his name as assignee, and to 
be drawn out by or for the use of the bankrupt, and for the 
bankrupt's own business purposes. The bank account of the 
assignee was, on the case made, a mere blind for creditors. 
This state of things continued till the assignee died, hav- 
ing rendered no account, and having to his credit, in the 
bank, only about $500. A new assignee bas, since his death, 
been appointed by the court, having jurisdiction of the trust, 
on the application of the present petitioners. The moneys 
and property now alleged to be in the hands of the bankrupt 
are the proceeda and resuit of the business so carried on, or, 
perhaps, partly the very money which the bankrupt failed to 
deliver to his voluntary assignee. 
Upon this case I am clearly of opinion, if the facts shall 
be established by the evidence, that the bankrupt should 
be compelled to pay over and deliver the money and prop- 
erty to the assignee in bankruptcy. Whatever money or 
property is in the possession of the bankrupt at the time of 
filing his petition, which he is actually using and holding as 
his own, passes to his assignee in bankruptcy, and he cannot set 
up in defence to the claim of the assignee a title in a third 
person, merely for the purpose of holding on to it himself. 
If third persons have the possession this court cannot, on 
Bummary petition, order it to be delivered to the assignee. 
But if the bankrupt has it, it passes to the assignee, subject 
to the liens or rights of third persons, whatever they may 
be. After the assignee gets the property any third person 
may, by petition or suit, assert his rights in it. 
If the bankrupt has property which he is using as his own 
the court will not be curious to inquire how he came by it.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>infdgnonsbddjnmqo6p64qpvvn9c2dk</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/882</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634577</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133036</id>
      <parentid>8169613</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED,  FEDBB →  FEDER,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, removed: � (12)</comment>
      <origin>15133036</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2510" sha1="gubrigz9089kn42eu8kbatw3623kx8o" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;874 FEDERAL REPORTBB. 
Mainwaeing V. Baek Caebib Dblap, etc. 
{Distriet Court, S. D. Mw York. March 6, 1880.) 
Gbnbkai. Cargo— Stowage — Dangbbous Abticle— LrABn^rar of Ship. 
— &quot;The ship is not responsible for injury neceasarily resulting to the 
goods of one shipper, by a general ship, from their being carried in the&quot; 
same vessel with the goods of other shippera, which, by usage, are a 
proper part of the same general cargo ; but if such injury, nevertheless, 
could have been avoided by the exercise of reasonable skill and attention 
on the part of the persons employed in the conveyance of the goods, then 
it is not deemed to be, in the sense of the law, such a loss as will exempt 
the carrier from liability, but rathcr a loss occasioned by his negligence 
and inattention to his duty.&quot; 
Certain baies of empty bags were shipped on an open-beam veasel, put 
up as a general ship, under a bill of lading stipulating for their delivery in 
good order, the &quot; perils of the sea &quot; exoepted. The bags were placed on 
a temporJiry deck of planks, covered with mats, directly over certain 
tierces of bleaching powder stowed in the lower hold. Hdd, that the 
ship was liable for the destruction of such bags caused by the fumes of 
the bleaching powder, set free by the pressure and workingof the cargo 
during heavy weather, without any negligence upon the part of those 
in charge of the vessel, in the absence of direct proof that such stowaga 
was necesaary to the trim of the vessel. 
In Adràiralty. 
E. G. Bell, for libellant. 
A. J. Heath, for claimants. 
Choatb, J. This is a suit to recover damages for injury 
done to baies of empty grain bags, shipped by the libellant at 
Liverpool for New York, under a bill of lading which stipu- 
lated in the usual form for their delivery in good order, &quot;the 
perils of the sea&quot; excepted. The bark was put up as a general 
ship. Her cargo consisted of 323 tierces and 40 casks of 
soda ash, 300 drums of caustic soda, 265 tierces of bleaching 
powder, 1,850 saoksof sait, 10,000 fire-brick, 1,703 empty 
petroleum barrels, 840 boxes of cutch, and 110 baies of bags, 
of which 67 were shipped by the libellant. There was some 
other miscellaneous cargo, of no great amount, which it ia 
unnecessary to mention in detail. The bark is what is ealled 
a,n open-beam vessel, having two deoks, the lower deck being 
laid only for a space about 25 feet long in the bow and about 
30 feet long in the after-part of the vessel. Upon the beama&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gubrigz9089kn42eu8kbatw3623kx8o</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/884</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634579</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133037</id>
      <parentid>8169615</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: AIi  → AL ,  PEDE →  FEDE,  EBPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133037</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2295" sha1="eb09q63dicbljeez41few633tf5m9tu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;876 FEDEBAL REPORTER. 
There is, I think, no doubt, upon the testimony, that the 
bleaching powders and. soda ash were properly dunnaged and 
stowed in the lower hold, and that the breaking up of some 
of the casks was owing to the pressure and working of the 
cargo during the heavy weather encountered, and the effect 
oî the bleaching powders on the casks themselves during the 
long voyage, and that it could not have been prevented by any 
reasônable care and skill on the part of those in charge of the 
vessel. 
It was not shown, by any direct evidence, in what part of 
the ship the damaged bags were stowed; whether they were 
those stowed on the temporary deck above the bleaching pow- 
ders, or aft on the permanent deck. It is the theory of the 
claimants that the fumes in the hold of a ship penetrate into 
ail parts of the ship, and that they are espeeially strong in 
the after-part. In the absence of proof, however, which it 
would seem that the vessel could easily have produced, of the 
place from which the damaged bags came, I am unable to 
believe that these dangerous and corrosive fumes passed up, 
by and around these baies of bags on the temporary deck im- 
mediately above, without injuring them, to attack with accu- 
mulated destructive force other baies at a greater distance. 
I think, although the claimant's theory has some support in 
the opinions of some of the witnesses, the weight of evidence 
is that the danger of injury from bleaching powders depends 
in. a great manner on the distance between them and the 
articles liable to be injured, and that it must be taken as 
proved that the damaged bags were those immediately above 
the bleaching powders on the temporary deck. 
It is also cleai-ly proved that the earrying of bleaching 
powders and soda ash in the same vessel with baies of bags, 
as parts of a general cargo, is a well-established usage of the 
trade between Liverpool and New York, and that the usage 
extends to the use of open-beamed vessels, like this bark, for 
the carriage of such general cargoes, including these articles. 
It is claimed, on the part of the libellant, that the injury was 
caused by the stowing of the baies of bags too near the bleach- 
ing powders, and upon this temporary and loosely laid deck,&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>eb09q63dicbljeez41few633tf5m9tu</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/890</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634585</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133038</id>
      <parentid>8169622</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tho  →  the  (2),  FEDERAIi  →  FEDERAL , TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (20)</comment>
      <origin>15133038</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1999" sha1="kxw0s0hwej2jv6un2kw3v2669ijy7og" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;882 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
proximity to the bleaohing powders ; and the court observed, 
&quot;There is no testimony on the subject.&quot; 
The testimony of the chief officer was simply that the stow- 
age, as it was, had reference to the trim. This was doubtless 
true. The stowage of every ship must have reference to the 
trim of the ship, but upon the particular question as to whether, 
safely to the ship and the rest of the cargo, a different mode 
of stowage could have been adopted which would have been, 
in this respect, safer for the bags, neither he nor any other 
witness gave any testimony. 
For these reasons the motion must be denied. 
Dent v. Rs.dmann. 
Janssbn V. Pattebson and othera. 
District Gourt, E. D. New York. Mardi 9, 1880., 
Attachment — Attachablb Ckedit — Conditi6sal Liability. — The 
difference between the charter money and the freight list of a steamer, 
payable upon the performance of the voyage and the collection of the 
freight according to the bills of lading, is net an attachable credit until 
the performance of these conditions. 
Samb — Answbe of Gaknisheb— Patmbnt of Dbbt into Coubt.— The 
answer of the garnishee, admitting an indebtedness for this difference of 
freight, is not conclusive as between two attaching creditors, upon the 
impounding of the amount of the debt after its payment into the registry 
of the court, in a proceeding in rem to try the title to the f und. 
Patment of Fond — Pboof of Claimant. — In disposing of a f und in its 
registry it is competent for a court of admiralty to require proof of the 
right of a claimant to any part of the same. 
In Admiralty. 
Butler, StiUman e Huhhard, for Dent, Patterson and others. 
Beebe, Wilcox e Hobbs, for Eadmann and Janssen. 
Benedict, J. In order to a correct imderstanding of the 
questions presented in the above entitled causes it will be 
neeessary to state with some detail the proceedings had 
therein; 
The £rsl action was oommenced by John Dent, Jr.^, to&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>kxw0s0hwej2jv6un2kw3v2669ijy7og</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/896</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634591</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133039</id>
      <parentid>8169628</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: AIi  → AL ,  EEPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, ORTEE → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133039</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2233" sha1="33q1m2r5fom8synqxthxp5jwk16ggox" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;888 raDEEAL REPORTER. 
ancy between the amount paid into the regîstry and the 
amounts stated in Patterson's answer, which I suppose is 
accounted for by a deduction of the brokerage on sale of the 
captain's draft, and a further deduction of $10. But as this 
small difference bas not been alluded to by counsel, I do not 
notice it. 
From the foregoing statement it is apparent that at the 
time Of the service of the attachment upon Patterson the 
only debt due Eadmann, attachable in the hands of Patterson 
or the owners of the Blagden, was the indebteduesa of the 
owners of the Blagden for address commission and freight 
brokerage. This sum, according to the eyideuce, became 
due Eadmann in New York, at the completion of the loadiag 
of the steamer, and it was therefore a debt attachable, as a 
credit of Eadmann with the owners of the steamer, at the 
time of the service of the attachment upon Patterson. But 
there was then no attachable credit arising out of the differ- . 
ence between the charter money and the freight list of the 
steamer, beoause the amount of that difference was due only 
in the event of the delivery of the cargo in Hamburg. Any 
liability for that difference in freight was dependent upon the 
performance of the voyage, and the collection of the freight 
according to the bills of lading. To an action in asaumpsit 
by Eadmann against Patterson, at the time the attachment 
was served, the perfect answer would be, that the excess of 
freight had not been coUected, and might never be. There 
being no cause of action by Eadmann against the owners of 
the Bladgen for this difference of freight, there was no such 
debt attachable in their hands. Such is the established law. 
Drake on Attachments, § 641 ; Keyea v. Milwaukee a St. Paul 
R. Co. 25 Wis. . 
But it is said Patterson, in bis answer as garnishee, had 
admitted an indebtedness for this difference of freiglit. If 
the proceeding on the part of Dent was against Patterson 
personally, to recover the amount of bis liability to Dent by 
reason of the attachment served upon him, there might • be 
force ia the suggestion that Patterson would be estopped 
ftdïUdeÀymg the existence of snch a debt. But here, upon&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>33q1m2r5fom8synqxthxp5jwk16ggox</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/904</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634599</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133040</id>
      <parentid>8169638</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, EPORTEE. → EPORTER., removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133040</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2311" sha1="1jewetz8zemq6r4fmi2hbctwmumyg8b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;896 FEDERAI REPORTER. 
anchor ; that thîs making of the bark to pass to leeward being 
observed from the Bteamship, the latter's helm was ordered 
to be and was shifted to hard a-etarboard, by which the 
course and direction of the steamship was changed to the 
Bouthward, and so far to the southward, and with speed re- 
dueed by slowing and stopping her angines, that if the bark 
had continued on the course she was making to pass to lee- 
ward the steamship and bark would have cleared at a safe 
distance off, and so far off that there could not have been a 
collision; that instead of keeping on this last mentioned 
course, the bark, through want of proper seamanship, or 
other fault of persons in charge of her navigation, again 
changed, this time suddenly porting and standing on a port 
helm, so as to throw herself across the bow of the steamship, 
and in such close proximity, through the mismanagement 
and fault of the bark, that the collision followed as the resuli 
of this last change, not with standing the use of ail the pre- 
cautionary measures to avoid the collision, in her power, by 
the steamship, on board of which, immediately upon observ- 
ing this last change of the bark, \he engines were reversed 
full speed astern; that the steamship at the time of the collis- 
ion had but little, if any, headway through the water, and 
the bark was forging ahead on a port helm, angling across, 
until her port side, between the fore and main rigging, struck 
against the stem of the steamship, and thereby the bark was 
badly damaged ; that the collision was caused by the want of 
a proper lookout on the bark, the want of proper attention to 
the sounding of the steamship's steam-whistle, and the mis- 
take by the persons navigating the bark of the steamship for 
a fishing vessel at anchor, through their fault, and their want 
of proper seamanship, and the changing of the bark's course 
each time, after the steamship changed her course to clear 
the bark, so as to cross the bows of the steamship, or other- 
wise, through the sole fault of the master and crew of the 
bark, and without negligence or fault on the part of the 
steamship. &quot; 
The Utopia is a British steamer, and by the merchant ship- 
ping act of 1854, § 282, (17 and 18 Vict. c. 104,) itis required&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1jewetz8zemq6r4fmi2hbctwmumyg8b</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/908</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634603</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133041</id>
      <parentid>14644060</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, EDEBAL  → EDERAL , PORTBR → PORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133041</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2239" sha1="bzp61c04efruxety3b2q82p61317ojr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;900 d-EDERAL REPORTER. 
«rhen she firsi saw the bark, and the bark nearly one point 
on her starboard bow, and upon a course nearly south-east, 
and, of course, crossing the bow of the steamer to the south- 
ward. 
Then the steamer is represented as porting, with her engines 
slowed and stopped, and moving ahead quite slow, making a 
course two points to starboard of her forruer course, and 
running one-fourth of a mile after porting, the bark mean- 
while having kept on her course one-sixteenth of a mile, and 
then starboarding and keeping off four points to the lee- 
ward, running a quarter of a mile on this course, and then 
the steamer starboarding three points and running on this 
new course an eighth of a mile, coming into collision with 
the bark about head on, or at a right angle upon the port 
side, the bark meanwhile having ported four and a half 
points and run a sixteenth of a mile to the place of collision. 
The witnesses on the part of the steamer, who observed 
the collision, were the master, the mate, and the third offi- 
cer, who were on the bridge, one lookout on the bow, and one 
on the fore-bridge, the carpenter of the ship, and one of the 
quartermasters, who were not on duty, but hapjDened to be 
on deck. These witnesses testify that when they first saw 
the bark she was nearly ahead, all but one of the witnesses 
other than the master putting her a little on the starboard 
bow. The master testified that she was right ahead, and, 
though pressed, refused to say that she bore at all on either 
bow. His diagram, however, shows her on the starboard 
bow, and the answer so avers. The witnesses testified that 
^hey could see her Siiils and her port bow; that she appeared 
to them to be on a course to the southward of them, crossing 
their bow. They vary greatly as to her distance atthat time, 
from a quarter of a mile to more than a mile. The mate puts 
her more than a mile oflf, and the master &quot;a good mile off.&quot; 
The master was on duty, and directing the movements of the 
ship. She was so nearly ahead that she was reported by the 
lookout as &quot;ahead.&quot; 
The wheel of the steamer was imme Jîately put hard a-port, 
and the master testifies that he at the same time gave an&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bzp61c04efruxety3b2q82p61317ojr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 1.djvu/918</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>634613</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133042</id>
      <parentid>14560606</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133042</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2234" sha1="qnpybmnbdl31ep5a2z68d9sqpfpl3tl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;910 ÏEDEEAL REPORTEH. 
fog towards each other would leave time only for a momentary 
delusion. And so the log says, with reference to the porting 
of the steamer, &quot;instantly&quot; the ship kept away. The star- 
boardiug of the steamer is represented as immediately fol- 
lowing on this movement of the ship, and the vessels were 
already in instant peril of an inevitable collision. 
Nothing can be plainer than that this oeBcial log makes 
the distance very short, and the time very brief, from the 
point where the ship was observed to be on her east by 
south course to leeward of the steamer's course, to the col- 
lision. The first orders given on the steamer also show that 
the distance was very short. The orders were &quot;hard a-port&quot; 
and &quot;slow.&quot; 
Why should thb wheel have been put hard a-port, espeeially ' 
if, at the same time the steamer slowed, the approaching ship 
being but a quarter of a point on the starboard bow, and, as 
then observed. making a course to the southward of the 
steamer's course, if she were a mile, or even a half a toile, 
off ? The answer, as if anticipating this eriticism, character- 
izes the movement as made &quot;for greater caution.&quot; It was 
indeed, if true, upon the relative positions of the vessels as 
given by the steamer, extreme caution, and so much so as to 
Buggest in itself a serious doubt as to the truth of the case 
ehe makes. At the distance apart of a mile, a comparatively 
slight porting of the wheel would have been all that was re- 
quired, if anything, to clear the bark, her movement being all 
the time to the windward of the steamer's course. 
But the master of the steamer is not only contradicted on 
this point by the necessary inferences to be drawn from the 
of&amp;cial log, and by the probable inferences to be drawn from 
the measures he took on seeing the bark, but in his examina- 
tion before the receiver of the wrecks, dictated by himself, 
he expressly states the distance: &quot;She appeared to be 
about one-fourth of a mile distant. Instantly put the helm 
hard a-port,&quot; etc. 
It is claimed, on the part of the steamer, that this docu- 
ment is not competent evidence in the cause. This is so. 
The stat.ute making it admissible bas been repealed, and,&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qnpybmnbdl31ep5a2z68d9sqpfpl3tl</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/1</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639287</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133124</id>
      <parentid>8170606</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (31)</comment>
      <origin>15133124</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="271" sha1="glj4yudpl9ujkarrp35t2uqka86y63j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;National Reporter System. United States Series. 
THE FEDERAL REPORTEK. 
VOL. 2. 
CASES ARGUED AND DETERMINED 
m THB 
CIRCUIT AND DISTRICT COURTS 
OF THB 
UNITED STATES. 
MAT— JOLY, 1880. 
PEVTON BOYLE, Edilor 
SAINT PAUL ! 
WEST PUBLISHING COMPANY. 
1880.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>glj4yudpl9ujkarrp35t2uqka86y63j</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/5</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639291</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133160</id>
      <parentid>8171041</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: Tlie → The,  KEPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (118)</comment>
      <origin>15133160</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2843" sha1="fd92w65wz4wcivb4918a4rsgxtcjf3i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;GASBS REPORTED. 
ÏV 
HoMen, Murray ▼...&gt;. 740 
Holmes Burglar Alarm Tel. Co., 
Page V 330 
Hudson Ins. Co., Poor ▼ 432 
Ira Chaffee, Tho, Scott v. 401 
Jackson, United States v 502 
James, Oampbell v 33B 
James, Davia v 618 
Jerkowski, drampton v 48!) 
Jillett, Fuller v 30 
Jordan, In re 319 
Joseph Nixon, The, v, Steam- 
tug George Lysle 259 
Keithv.Levi 743 
Keitli T. Town of Kockingliam. 834 
Kennedy, Salil'^ard v 295 
Kennedy V. Steamer Sarmatian. 911 
Kidder y. Peatteaii 616 
Kimball V. Tudor Co 61 
King V. Ohio &amp; Misa. R. Co. . . . 36 
King, Strauss v 236 
Kittle, Missouri Valley Life Ins. 
Co. V 113 
Kneedler, Alleman v 671 
Kneeland v. Bheriff 901 
Kropholler v. 8t. Paul, M. &amp; M. 
R.Co 302 
Lalance&amp;Qrosjean Manuf'gCo., 
Matthews v 232 
Lamar Ins. Co. , Runkle v 9 
Laporte, Bickford v 214 
Latimer, Woodman T 842 
Leach, Patrick V 120 
Leathers, Tolman v 653 
Leete, Brown v 440 
Leonard, United States T 669 
Levi, Keith ▼ 743 
lindsay, Peck, Stow &amp; Wilcox 
Co. V 688 
Lindsay, Btrobridge t 692 
Lissburger, In the matter of . . . . 153 
Littlefie M, Perry v 464 
Locomotive Safety Truck Co. t. 
PennsylvaniaKailroadCo.... 677 
Ijods, Cummins v 661 
Lofle, Zane v 229 
Lorillard v. Standard Oil Co. ... 902 
Louisville, C. &amp; L. Ry. Co., 
Dinsmore v 465 
Lyles V. Steam-ship Santiago de 
Cuba 271 
Macomb, Chicago, St. L. &amp; N. 
O.R.CO.V 18 
Maguire v. Steamboat Svlvan 
Glen ■ 905 
Page 
Manhattan Firolns. Co.,&quot;Whlte- 
house V 498 
Marshall v. Tng Conroy 785 
Martin, Bchuelenburg v 747 
Mather v. Anirrican Ex. Co. . . . 49 
Matthews v. Lalance &amp; Qrosjean 
Manuf'gCo. 232 
Mattocka v. Baker 455 
May, In re 845 
McGonigle, In re 767 
McLauglilin, Merchants' Nat. 
Bk.of Bt. Paulv 128 
McNi-li V. Everson 899 
McWilliams v. Steam-tug Vim. 874 
Merchants' Nat. Bk. of Indian- 
apnlis, Adama v 174 
Merchants' Nat. Bk. of Little 
Rock V. Oounty of Pulaski.. 64S 
Merchants' Nat. Bk. of St. Paul 
V. McLaughlin 128 
Merritt, Stewart V 531 
Metcalf V. Offlcer 640 
Miami Valley Ins. Co., Wash- 
bum V 633 
Middlesex Quarry Co. T. Schoon- 
er Albert Mason 821 
Mircovich t. British Bark Star 
of Scotia 678 
Missouri River Packet Co. v. 
Hannibal &amp; St. J. R. Co 285 
Missouri Valley Life 1ns. Co. v. 
Kittle 113 
Moody V. Pive Hundred Thou- 
sand Laths 607 
Morgan v. Gilbert 835 
Morganstem, Smith V 674 
Morse, Sirams v 325 
Moyer v. Adams 182 
Murray v. Iferry-boat F. B. 
Nimick 86 
Murray v. Holden 740 
Nashua Gard &amp; Glazed Paper 
Co., Perkins v 451 
Nashville, C. &amp; St. L. Ry. Co., 
Southern Ex. Co. v 466 
Nathan v. New York Elevated 
R.Co 225 
Neddo, Bealsv 41 
New York CofEee Polishing Co. 
V. Wilson 904 
New York Elevated R. Co., Na- 
than V 226 
NewYorkSavingsBk.jBaileyv. 14 
Noble, &quot;Warford v 202 
Noyes, White v 782 
NuU.Inre 71 
Offlcer, Metcalf v 640 
Ohio &amp; Miss. R. Co., Campbell V. S6&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fd92w65wz4wcivb4918a4rsgxtcjf3i</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/21</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639307</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133138</id>
      <parentid>14560679</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:10:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tlie →  the, PORTKB → PORTER, removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15133138</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2515" sha1="sfconwxkzf7q0xtlvobr6zr4g6b0fgp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;14 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
BaixjEt V. The New Yoek Savings Bank and another. 
{Cireiiit Court, 8. D. New York. April 24, 1880.) 
Kek_*tai,— Necessaby Pakty to Suit — Savings Bank — Act of Mauch 
3, 1875.— An action was brought bya widow residing in New York to 
reoover moneys deposited by her late husband, as trustee, in a New- 
York savings bank. On petition of the bank, under a statute of the 
state, (Laws 1875, c. 371, p. 401,) the alleged executer of the decedent, 
resident in Connecticut, was made a party defendant. The bank subse- 
quently put in an answer, setting up that it could not ascertain which of 
the two claimants was entitled to the moneys ; averred its readiness to 
pay them to the person lawfully entitled thereto ; asked for a stay of 
proceedings until a legal representative of the estate of the decedent 
should be appointed and made a party to the action ; and prayed that, 
when all the parties necesaary to render the judgment of the court a 
protection to it should have been brought in, such parties might inter- 
plead and settle their rights among themselves, and that such bank 
might pay the moneys into court to await the final determination of 
the action, and be stricken out as a party to the action, and ita liability 
for the said moneys thereupon cease. Edd, that until the moneys had 
been paid into court, and its liability for the deposit had ceased, the 
bank was a necessary party to the suit ; and, therefore, under the cir- 
cumstances ot the case, the cause could not be removed from the state 
court under section 2 of the act of March 3, 187S. 
Motion to remand. 
Francis N. Bangs, for motion. 
Charles G. Beaman, Jr., contra. 
Blatchfobd, C. J. This suit was originally brought in the 
supreme court of New York by the plaintiff against the New 
York Savings Bank. The complaint put in in the state court 
demanded judgment against the bank for $25,000, and inter- 
est and costs. It prayed no other relief. The claim sued on 
was made under an alleged right of the plaintiff to moneys 
which her deceased husband, Benjamin Bailey, had on de- 
posit in the bank at the time of his death in the name of 
&quot;Benjamin Bailey, trustee.&quot; 
The bank is a savings bank incorporated under the laws of 
New York. By section 25 of the act of the legislature of New 
York, passed May 17, 1875, (Laws 1875, c. 371, p. 408,) it is 
provided as follows : &quot;In all actions against any savings bank, 
to recover for moneys on deposit therewith, if there be any&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>sfconwxkzf7q0xtlvobr6zr4g6b0fgp</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/27</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639313</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133143</id>
      <parentid>14560703</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:10:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, PORTBR → PORTER, AIi  → AL, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133143</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2217" sha1="la05ow9czh0wx1tgd2z8bq7teku4omc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;20 FEDEEAL REPORTER. 
beeause it does not point out with certainty the parts of the 
bill demurred to. 
The rule, undoubtedly, is that a special demur/er to part of 
a bill must point out with eerfcainty the part demurred to. 
This is not only necessary for reasons of convenience, but, 
nnless the demurrer has this precision, there must be great 
uncertainty in the judgment, if a judgment is entered, sus- 
taining the demurrer. Atwell v. Terrett, 2 Bl. 0. C. 39. The 
defendant's counsel relies, however, on the case of Claridge 
V. Hoar, le Ves. Jr. 65, as an authority for rejecting the 
words &quot;or elsewhere&quot; as surplusage. That was not a case of 
a demurrer, but of a plea, and I think it hns no relevancy to 
this question. 
It would seem that if the demurrrer is sustained it must 
be sustained as a whole. And if that is so the judgment 
would evidently be uncerfcain as to what parts of the bill 
under the judgment on the demurrer the defendant would be 
cxcused from answering. But as bo+ h parties have also fully 
argued this demux'rer on the merita, as if it were a demurrer 
to the discovery sought in the enumerated interrogatories 
only, I have examined it as if the words &quot;or elsewhere&quot; Jiad 
been omitted or could be rejected. 
The bill alleges that the first mortgage bonds to which iliese 
interrogatories relate are void in the hands of the defendant, 
on several grounds ; and among other things alleged in re- 
spect to all of that class of bonds held by this defendant it ia 
stated in the bill that thoy had not the certificate of the 
trustees to their genuineness, as required by the mortgage. 
This defect is alleged as one of the grounds for holding them 
void in the hands of the defendant, who is also alleged to hold 
them with notice of their invalidity, and without having 
parted with value for them. 
The objection to these interrogatories is, as stated in f'o- 
fendant's brief, that &quot;inasmuch as the bill only charges 
Macomb with holding uncertificated bonds, can the plaintiff 
have a discovery as to any other bonds?&quot; It is also objected 
that the plaintiff is not entitled to any discovery as to any 
bonds not held by the defendant Macomb, The interrog; •&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>la05ow9czh0wx1tgd2z8bq7teku4omc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/31</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639317</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133146</id>
      <parentid>8170834</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:11:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PEDEBAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (15)</comment>
      <origin>15133146</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2153" sha1="67xyggi4romx7gh1319rwf8bqp2jh68" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;24 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
under the New York Code for the trial of an issue of law which 
the hearing upon a demurrer is. 
By that code 14 days' notice must be given. I think this 
is a matter of &quot;practice&quot; within the meaningof section 914 of 
the Eevised Statutes, and I see no difficulty in its being 
adapted to the trial of causes in the federal courts. There- 
fore, it must be deemed applicable, and, so far as the rules 
of this court allowed a shorter notice, they are abrogated by 
the statute. Case stricken from the calendar. 
CoMBiNATiON Teust Co. and others v. Weed and others.* 
{Oireuit Court, E. D. Pennsylvania. April 6, 1880.} 
CORPOEATION— CONTBACT WiTH PkBSIDBNT — FiDUCIAnY RELATION— IK- . 
JUKCTION. — The president ol a corporation occupies a position of trust, 
and may be called upon by bill in equity to account for and make resti- 
tution of any part of the property conflded to his care which he lias 
improperly applied to his own use, While a contract by which a corpo- 
ration delivers to its president, with power of sale, unissued stock, as 
security for a loan from him, will be looljed upon with suspicion, it wiil 
be enforced when sUown to have been made for the Leneflt of the corpo- 
ration, and to be just. 
PiiBDGB OF Unisstjbd Stock. — A Corporation may pledge, as security for 
a loan, unissued stock held by it in trust for the advancemeut of ita 
best interests. 
Motion to dissolve injunction. 
This -was a bill in equity filed in a state court by the corpo- 
ration plaintiff against its president, to restrain him from sell- 
ing certain stock which had been transferred to him by the 
corporation, and held by him under a written agreement as 
collateral security for the repayment of a loan of |10,000, 
made by him to the corporation, with power of sale in case of 
default in repayment of the loan. The bill alleged that most 
of this stock was unissued stock held by the corporation in trust 
for the advancement of its best interests ; that instead of pay- 
ingto the corporation $10,000 defendant had deducted from 
*Reported by Frank P. Prichard, Esq., of the Philadelphia bar.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>67xyggi4romx7gh1319rwf8bqp2jh68</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/45</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639332</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133153</id>
      <parentid>8170985</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133153</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2303" sha1="8nq0gxd3bs7wsynmfbiq6fo9oztl9w1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;38 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
rangements which were made the preferred stock was issued 
with the certificates in the form referred to, and these certifi- 
cates were issued for the certificates isaued by the trustees, 
Before stating the form of the certificates, we may refer to 
the mortgages or deeds of trust which are sought to be fore- 
closed in the original and cross suits. One was executed 
December 24, 1867, by the railway company to Allen Camp- 
bell and J. U. P. Odell. This waa on the railway from Cin- 
cinnati to East St. Louis, and including the branch to Lou- 
isville in a certain contingency; and another deed of trust or 
mortgage was executed March 25, 1871, by the 0. &amp; M. Co. 
This is called the second mortgage, and recites the lien and 
priority of $6,800,000 of first mortgage bonds. 'This last 
mortgage was made to seeure $4,000,000 of bonds. The cer- 
tificates which were issued to the stockholders were in the 
following form : 
&quot;Thia is to certify that. is entitled to 
ehares of the preferred capital stock of the Ohio &amp; Missis- 
sippi Eailway Company, of one hundred dollars each, trans- 
ferable only on the books of said company in the city of New 
York, in person, or by attorney, on the surrender of this cer- 
tificate. The preferred stock is to be and remain a first claim 
upon the property of the corporation after its indebtedness, 
and the holder thereof shall be entitled to receive from the 
net earnings of the company seven per cent, per annum, pay- 
able semi-annually, and to have such interest paid in full for 
each and every year before any payment of dividend upon the 
common stock; and whenever the net earnings of the corpo- 
ration, which shall be applied in payment of interest on tha 
preferred stock and of dividends on the common stock, shall 
be more than sufficient to pay both — said interest of seven per 
cent, on the preferred stock, in full, and seven per cent, divi- 
dend upon the common stock for the year in which said net 
earnings are so applied — then the excess of such net earnings, 
after such payments, shall be divided upon the preferred and 
common shares eoually, share by share.&quot; 
It is insisted by the preferred stockholders that because of 
their ownership of stock in this way they severally bave a lieu&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8nq0gxd3bs7wsynmfbiq6fo9oztl9w1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/49</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639336</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133159</id>
      <parentid>8171030</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133159</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2289" sha1="b4tvobyqtla60zn4vphyn352bd04hig" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;42 FEDERAL REPORTEH. 
Neddo, his wife, for a decree of foreclosure of a certain mort- 
gage made by said defendants, on February 1, 1876, on 160 
acres of land in Shawnee county, the same then and now 
being the homestead of defendants, which mortgage was 
made to J. ïï. Fairbanks to secure a negotiable promissory 
note, for the sum of $1,500, bearing even date herewith, and 
payable three years after date. Before the maturity of said 
note, and on March 27, 1877, the said Fairbanks indorsed 
said note and assigned said mortgage for a valuable consid- 
eration to this plaintifif, who had no notice of any infirmities 
in said papers, or of any equities against the same. 
Louisa Neddo sets up in her answer to plaintiff'a bill that 
she was induced to sigu said mortgage, as also the note, 
under threats of personal violence from her husband, said A. 
P. Neddo; and that by reason of said duress she never gave 
her voluntary consent to said contract, and that the said 
mortgage is null and void. The evidence tends to show that 
on the day of the execution of the paper by Mrs. Neddo her 
husband threatened that if she did not sign said mortgage 
he would eut her throat ; that at the time he made the threat 
he had in his hand a large pocket knife, and the threats were 
made in the presence of a grown son and daughter of Mrs. 
Neddo ; that shortly af terwards, in a few minutes, the notary 
came into the room with the papers, and Mrs. Neddo signed 
and acknowledged the same in his presence ; that there was 
uothing in her appearance or manner to excite the suspicion 
of the notary, or cause him to think she was acting under 
duress or excitement ; that the money was borrowed and used 
mainly to pay off a prior mortgage on said homestead given 
by defendants. 
The constitution of the state (section 9, art. 15) and statute 
(Geu. St. 473, § 1) provide that the homestead shall not be 
a;lienated without the joint consent of husband and wife. 
The constitutional and statutory provision makes the con- 
sent of both husband and wife necessary to the validity of 
the conveyance, and if the consent of either is wanting, the 
deed or mortgage is illegal in toto, and gives no title or lien 
whatever on the premises. In this respect it seems to change&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>b4tvobyqtla60zn4vphyn352bd04hig</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/67</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639354</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133177</id>
      <parentid>14644107</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133177</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2140" sha1="rmijhwr15ax52p4i9x3rp2wtc1r8pm2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;60 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
cle 2, § 2, Con. U. S.) is another question of a more serious 
character. 
The constitution of this state limits the privilege of suffrage 
to &quot;white maies.&quot; Article 2, § 2, Con. Or. But by the oper- 
ation of the fourteenth and fifteenth amendments this word 
&quot;white&quot; is, in effeet, stricken out of the constitution of the 
Btate. The fourteenth one provides that &quot;ail persons born 
or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the juris- 
diction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the 
state where they reside;&quot; and the fifteenth one declares that 
&quot;the right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not 
be denied or abridged by the United States, or by any state, 
on aceount of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.&quot; 
The resuit is that citizens of the United States cannot be ex- 
cluded from the poils on aceount of color. Therefore, negroes 
born in the United States, being born &quot;subject to the juris- 
diction&quot; thereof, became citizens and votera. 
But the Indian tribes in the United States, or the mem- 
bers thereof, are not born &quot;subject to the jurisdiction&quot; of the 
United States. McKay v. Campbell, 2 Saw. 132. There are 
no Indians in Oregon that were born subject to its jarisdiction 
or that have since become so. In the report of the senate 
judiciary committee, made by Mr. Carpenter, Deccniber 14, 
1870, it was stated that the Indian tribes, or the members 
thereof, are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United 
States, and, therefore, such Indians are not made citizens 
by the fourteenth amendment. 1 Dillon, 348, note. 
The state may make any Indian a voter, or the United 
States may make him a citizen, and then by operation of the 
fifteenth amendment he becomes a voter within the state 
where he resides, if he is otherwise qualified according to 
its laws. 
By the treaty of January 31, 1855, (10 Stat. 1157,) the 
tribal organization and relation of the Wyandotte Indians, 
in Kansas, with the United States, was dissolved and termi- 
nated, and they were made &quot;citizens of the United States to 
all intents and purposes.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rmijhwr15ax52p4i9x3rp2wtc1r8pm2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/115</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639402</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133125</id>
      <parentid>14558880</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tbey  →  they ,  FBD →  FED,  FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133125</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2229" sha1="3ay3kq3rmwgvrzprslog77xth5mu6ys" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;108 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
the only questions are, what lights did they show each otiier, 
and did the schooner, while on that tack, change further to 
the &quot;westward just before reaching the steamboat. 
There is neither probability nor evidence to support such a 
hypothesis. The testimony is clear that, though a dark, 
windy, and stormy night, lights could be easily seen, and I 
have no doubt that the schooner's light must have been visi- 
ble at least a mile off to those on the steamboat; probably 
considerably more. 
Upon the whole testimony, I think, it is elearly proved that 
the schooner kept her course on her port tack for at least a 
mile until the collision, showing her port light, and that the 
steamboat, without observing it, changed her course at least 
twice after she came in sight, for some reasons not fully ex- 
plained — probably in consequence of seeing other vessels; 
that she was negligent in her lookout, and did not observe 
the Farwell till she saw her red light on her starboard bow, and 
BO close that it was too late to avoid a collision, although she 
then rung to slow and stop ; and that, theref ore, the f ault was 
with the steamboat and not with the schooner. Nor is there 
any force in the claim of the steamboat that the schooner 
should, when she saw that the collision was imminent, have 
starboarded to avoid the consequences of the steamboat's 
mistake. The cases in which a vessel is bound to disobey 
the positive rule which requires her to keep her course on 
meeting a steamer, and in which she is chargeable as for a 
fault in not doing so, are very rare indeed, if any such case 
ever occurs. The Havre and The Scotland, U. S. Circuit 
Court, S. D. New York, unreported. 
One question still remains: Was the schooner in fault 
in not showing a flash light ? The rule requiring a sailing 
vessel in the night-time to show a light on that &quot;point or 
quarter&quot; towards which a steam vessel is approaching, (Eev. 
St. § 423e,) bas its most obvions application to the case of a 
steam vessel approaching a sail vessel from abaft the beam, 
where the sailing vessel's regulation lights do not show. In- 
dependently of the rule, there is authority for this requirement&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3ay3kq3rmwgvrzprslog77xth5mu6ys</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/117</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639404</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133126</id>
      <parentid>14560618</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: AIi  → AL , EDBRA → EDERA, POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133126</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1579" sha1="dn66z0llg37adlo2roy6fkv4q4o365w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;110 FEDERAL HEPORTER. 
could be determinee! with reasonable certainty and a flash 
light shown, she had swung so far that the red light was no 
longer visible. It js difficult to find from the evidence how 
far off she was while thus showing both lights, or during 
what length of time she showed them. The time was, how- 
ever, very short, and the event showed that she was during 
that time constantly on the swing under a starboard wheel. 
I think, upon all the evidence, that the showing of a flash 
light would not have aided in avoiding the collision. When 
it could flrst have been properly shown, if at ail, the steamer 
was swinging around across the schooner's bow, under a star- 
board helm, in such a way, and the vessels were coming 
together with such speed, that there is no reason to be- 
lieve that the collision would have been avoided, although 
by porting the steamer might have struck the schooner, in- 
stead of the schooner striking the steamer on her starboard 
side as she did. Moreover, I do not think it can be fairly 
said that there was any particular point on the schooner 
which, 80 far as those on the schooner could see, the steamer 
was approaching, at which they could, conformably to the 
rule, show the light. For these reasons I think this defence 
of the steamboat is not made out. See The Leopard, 2 Low- 
ell, 238. 
Decrees for the libellants in the two suits against the 
steamboat, with costs, and reference to compute damages. 
Decree for the claimants in the suit against the schooner, 
dismissing the libel, with costs.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dn66z0llg37adlo2roy6fkv4q4o365w</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/139</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639427</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133127</id>
      <parentid>14560627</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: ougli  → ough ,  PBD →  FED, AIi  → AL ,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133127</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2352" sha1="03i8udrtt6z6e7tec0ns939f7ul8ba2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;182 FEDBEAL REPORTBB. 
mensuration, with the mortgage before him, going, at the time 
it was executed, to the Grindstone creek, and examining the 
logs in the north fork, could ascertain accurately the specifie 
logs mortgaged, which is all that is required to make the mort- 
gage sufSciently definite and certain. 
There is some confiict in the evidence about the surround- 
ing facta and circumstances. It is claimed the agent of the 
mortgagee agreed to permit the mortgagors to drive the entire 
lot of logs totheir mill, and manufacture and sell them. The 
evidence, however, does not satisfy my mind that such was 
the understanding. 
If I am right m my construction of the mortgage, then, 
manifestly, so far as the executions are concerned, the sheriiï 
cannot hold the property by virtue of any rights of the judg- 
ment creditors as against the plaintiiï. The absolute right 
of possession of the mortgaged property belonged to the plain- 
tiff on default by the mortgagors, which was prior to the 
seizure, by the sheriff, upon the executions. Authorities are 
numerous. See Edson v. Newell, 14 Minn. 228, aud citations. 
Can the sheriff avail himself of the rights which the statute 
gives certain laborers to secure liens and preferences for serv- 
ices performed ? There is some doubt about the construction of 
the statute of Minnesota, and the nature of the prooeedings nec. 
essary to establish and perfect the lien given by it. It is not 
necessary, in determining this case, to consider the rights of 
claimants under this statute. If the claim is an equitable 
one, then, coneeding that the lien claimants, by serving notice 
upon the sheriff, did all that is necessary to preserve their 
liens under the statute, it cannot avail the sheriff to defeat 
the plaintiff's right to the property mortgaged. The money 
in the hands of the sheriff far exceeds the amount of plain- 
tiff's claim, and the overplus is more than enough to secure 
payment for the services of the workmen, who urge prior liens 
under the statute ; and, if it is admitted that these workmen 
have a first lien on all the logs eut, or lumber manufactured, 
includingthe logs mortgaged to the plaintiff, the lien not being 
upon any specifie portion, the rule prevails that where there 
are two funds to which ;he other lien claimants can resort,&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>03i8udrtt6z6e7tec0ns939f7ul8ba2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/141</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639429</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133128</id>
      <parentid>8170651</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (10)</comment>
      <origin>15133128</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2297" sha1="f41niqgbccibodfwomwo0xdugwf4xys" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;134 FEDERAL REPOBTBB. 
Nelson, D. J. The original suit was brought to set aside a 
deed executed by Julinah P. Atwater to John D. Seely, Jr., 
dated April 19, 1875. The bill contains a prayer, also, that 
certain real estate therein described be partitioned among the 
owners, or sold and the proceeds distributed according to the 
interest of the parties as alleged therein. A cross-bill is filed 
by the defendants, Seely and others, and affirmative relief 
prayed. The cases have been fully presented and argued 
upon the pleadings and proofs. 
The controversy involves the title to real estate claimed by 
the complainants in the original suit, as heirs at law of Jo- 
sephine Seely, and by the defendant John D. Seely, as the 
heir at law of her husband, John D. Seely, Jr. ; the other de- 
fendant, Norman G. Seely, being adminiatrator of his estate. 
The testimony is voluminous, and discloses a very bitter 
feeling on both sides. 
The foUowing facts are established by the proofs, and I so 
find : On August 12, 1873, John D. Seely, Jr., and Josephine, 
his wife, were in possession and seizedin fee of the north-west 
quarter of section fourteen, (14,) township one hundred and 
seven, (107,) range twenty-one (21) west, situatedinthecounty 
of Steele, Minnesota, and on that day, by warranty deed, they 
conveyed these premises to Julinah P. Atwater, a sister of 
Josephine Seely, for the consideration expressed in the deed 
of $6,000, when in fact no consideration was paid at the 
time of the conveyance, or ever has been, but the deed was 
executed and delivered from apprehension of a slander suit 
against John D. Seely, Jr., by one Prisley, and to prevent a 
lien of any judgment obtained in that suit. I also find that 
John D. Seely, Jr., made an attempt to create a secret trust 
for his benefit; and I further find that on October 14, 1873, 
Julinah P. Atwater, at , in the state of New York, by a 
quitclaim deed of the real estate above described, executed in 
accordance with the laws of the state of New York, conveyed 
the real estate in controversy to Josephine Seely, and the 
deed was delivered to and received by her, but was not so 
executed as to admit it to record according to the laws of 
Minnesota then existing, for the reason that there were no&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>f41niqgbccibodfwomwo0xdugwf4xys</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/155</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639447</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133129</id>
      <parentid>8170665</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER., OBTER → ORTER, BKAL → ERAL, removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15133129</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2369" sha1="o2yv1ku9lndtb6yhs462hl5rko1o4ko" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;148 , FEDERAL BBPORTER. 
Same— Execution of Bond— Pbestjmption as to Action of Clerk. 
A bail-bond present in the record wasexecutedbefore a clerk, who wrote 
at the foot of it &quot; signed, sealed and acknowledged, and approved by,&quot; 
signing his name thereto. It did not appear from the bond or otherwise 
tliat the , defendant was brought before the clerk for examination and 
bail as a magistrate. The court was in session that daj. Held, that it 
would be presumed to have been taken by the clerk under the immedi- 
ate direction of the court. 
Same — Power to Tare — Ci.EnKs. — Courts have inherent power to take 
a recognizance. Clerks have such power onljr by virtue of statute. 
W. W. Murray, District Attorney, and John B. Clough, 
Assistant, for the United States. 
Emerson Etheridge and W. I. McFarland, for defendants. 
The case was submitted to the court upon the following 
agreed statement of facts : 
On June 19, 1876, E. L. D. Evans, the defendant, was 
twice indicted for passing counterfeit money. Nos. 1,313, 
1,314, On May 30 and 31, 1878, he was tried by jury in 
one case on a plea of not guilty, resulting in a mistrial. On 
May 31, 1878, after the jury were discharged and while the 
defendant was under bond for that (the May, 1878) term, 
and when no capais was outstanding for his arrest, nor any 
order for one entered, and when he was in court under said 
bond, the said defendant, with his counsel, in opeij court, 
(Judge Trigg presiding,) with his sureties, offered to enter 
into recognizances for his appearance at the following No. 
vember term, 1878, and was directed by the court to execute 
the bond before the clerk of said court, who at that time had 
not been appomted one of the commissioners of said court in 
addition to his appointment as clerk. In pursuance of the 
verbal direction of the court, the bond was executed in the 
clerk's office adjoining the court room, in each case. On 
January 20, 1879, judgment nisi was taken on the bonds, and 
on the same day scire fadas issued. The return of the mar- 
shal shows service on W. E. Evans only, the other two not 
being found. We agree to the above statement of facts, and 
agree that judgment may be pronounced as though an alias 
writ had been isBued and returned non est inventus as to the 
defendant E. L. D. Evans. We also agree that the defend-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>o2yv1ku9lndtb6yhs462hl5rko1o4ko</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/171</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639469</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133130</id>
      <parentid>8170682</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tbem →  them,  EEPORT →  REPORT, EDERAIi  → EDERAL, removed: � (7)</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2325" sha1="2wuzvt6eunfgq5vm82g250nordgg1fu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;164 TEDERAL REPORTEH. 
of the firm of Brewstei' &amp; Baldwin while that firm clid tus- 
mess in 1869. Whether the omission to eommunicate a fact 
will be considered a fraud depends largely on the circum- 
stances attending the particular case, and what diity, in 
respect to the matter in question, the part,y charged with 
improper concealment owes to the other party. Brewster 
undoubtedly had an interest in Baldwin's obtaining a partner 
with capital, and when the connection -with Burr was first 
proposed he certainly desired, and had reason to desire, its 
consummation. He knew, also, that in the interviews be- 
tween himself and Burr that possible partnership was in 
contemplation, and that the interviewa, or one of them, were 
specially arranged for the purpose of considering this subject. 
Assuming, however, that the circumstances were such as 
called for the communication on his part of any thing known 
to him which might influence Burr, and which he had any rea- 
son to believe Burr was ignorant of or would desire to know — 
and this, I think, is as strongly as the complainant's case 
at this point can be put — there is still no proof of fraudulent 
concealment. Brewster knew that Baldwin and Burr were 
intimate friends and constantly together; that for several 
months Burr had been aiding Baldwin financially; that he 
had obtained from him the preceding April a pledge of a 
large part of his stock of carriages as security for his loans of 
some $35,000. He had good reason to believe, and did be- 
lieve, that Burr knew that Baldwin was, and had for several 
months been, in financial straits ; that he f ound it difficult to 
meet his current maturing obligations in his business. 
The fact that the business had been poor, and carried on at 
a loss for the last year, was not concealed from Burr. On 
the contrary, it was matter of discussion between the parties. 
In the settlement of their partnership affairs Baldwin &amp; 
Brewster agreed upon a certain sum, about $46,000, which 
was treated as the amount of the losses in the business, for 
the purpose of such settlement. It was not strictly and 
exclusively losses in business. It included allowances for 
d spreeiation in what had been spent on the premises leased 
by the firm and other matters. The account had been made&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2wuzvt6eunfgq5vm82g250nordgg1fu</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/181</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639483</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133131</id>
      <parentid>8170692</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: isb  → ish ,  PBD →  FED,  FEDEBA →  FEDERA, ERAIi → ERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, removed: � (16)</comment>
      <origin>15133131</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2402" sha1="dfczm5h2qr7u1ztjm61x8ebf6enkbl4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;I7e FEDERAL REPORTBB. 
Adams, Assignee, etc., v. Mbrchants' National Bank of 
Indianapolis. 
(Circuit Oovrt, D. Indiana. April, 1880.) 
Wa-rbhotish Recbipts— Indiana Statutb. — The provisions of the act 
of March 9, 1875, (1 Davis, 1876, p. 927, Ind.) making warehouse re- 
celpts negotiable, and an indorsement of such receipts a transfer of 
the property, helà not applicable to a transaction where a private 
warehouseman took ont a permit for his warehouse, in class B, and 
then Issued receipts for his own property stored therein. 
Plbdge — Warehousi; Receipts. — As againgt creditors, possession, act- 
ual or constructive, is essential to the validity of a pledge. Where  a 
private warehouseman issued receipta for his own property, in his own 
warehouse, and deliverod them as secunty for his indebtedness, Tield, 
that the person to whom they were so delivered acquired no title to the 
property described therein as against other creditors; and, in bankruptcy 
proceedings, was not entitled to any preference. 
Bankrtiptcy — Assignee. — An assignee in bankruptcy represents ail the 
creditors, and as such may contest transfers binding upon the bankrupt. 
Samb — Pbefbrhed Ceeditor — Unlawful Oontbact. — The fact that a 
bankrupt received money or property upon an unlawful contra'ct, under 
which a crediter seeks a preference, which property went to iacrease 
the estate, will not render such contract valid. 
Petition in review of order of the district court. 
McMaster e Boice and Judah e Caldwell, for assignee. 
R. 0. Hawkim and Dailey e PickeriU, for defendants. 
Dbummond, C. J. In the fall of 1877, Van Camp &amp; Son were 
engaged in business at Indianapolis, in buying and selling 
apples and other produce, and in the manufacture and putting 
up of meats, fruits, etc. They had a storehouse at Indian- 
apolis, where they kept articles which they wished to hold 
for better priees. At that time they applied to the bank for 
a loan of $2,000. The bank agreed to make the loan upon 
the execution of a note by the bankrupts, with certain sure- 
ties, and on the condition that they would couvert their 
storehouse into a public warehouse of class &quot;B, &quot; by taking 
out a permit therefor under the statute, and would place the 
800 barrels of apples, for the purchase of which they made the 
loan, in the warehouse, issuing warehouse receipts therefor&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dfczm5h2qr7u1ztjm61x8ebf6enkbl4</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/185</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639488</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133132</id>
      <parentid>8170696</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133132</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2210" sha1="5ovstgjx4pp9a6ib8xmxnmkyhe3yoo1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;178 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
there was no sale, unless the circumstances attending the 
transaction amounted to a sale. In nearly ail the cases which 
have been cited in support of the decree herein the court 
found that there was a sale of the property. For instance, in 
Gibson t. Stevens, 8 Howard, 384, the case proceeds through- 
out upon the assumption that the party through whom the 
plaintiff claimed the property had purchased it of the ware- 
housemen, who issued the receipts therefor. It was the case, 
therefore, of a sale of property for which receipts were given, 
and in consequence of which the vendors became bailees of 
the purchasers, and so the title of the property was in the 
purehasers or in their assignees by virtue of the indorsement 
of the warehouse receipts. 
The case of Gibson v. ChiUicothe Bank, 11 Ohio St. 311, 
was in many respects like this, and there would seem, from a 
statement of the evidence, to he strong grounds for the claim 
that it was a case of mere security, although the contract 
under which the advances were made and the receipts given 
in that case are not set forth ; but the court found that the 
receipts were not merely given as security, but that the 
money was advanced upon an agreement that the title of the 
property was passed when the receipts were given ; and that 
it was to be held for the payment of the advances made. 
In Yenni v. McNamee, 45 N. Y. 614, the court referred to 
the difference between the case of a sale of property for 
which a receipt was given, and one where it was a mere se- 
curity, distinguishing the case from that of Gibson v. Stevens, 
and holding that as the property was held merely as a secur- 
ity, and there was not an absolute sale, it came within the 
principle of a mortgage of chattels, and, the law of the state 
not being complied with, it was invalid as against other 
creditors. 
In the case of Shepardson v. Green, 21 Wis. 539, the owners 
of coal gave a warehouse receipt to the plaintiff for a certain 
quantity of coal then in their possession. They treated the 
coal as their own, and sold portions of it to their customers, 
appropriating the proceeds to their own use, and af terwards&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5ovstgjx4pp9a6ib8xmxnmkyhe3yoo1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/189</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639493</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133133</id>
      <parentid>8170700</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER, removed: � (12)</comment>
      <origin>15133133</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2050" sha1="bm13x3c94a3jpkvpjl4ans318101p2h" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;182 FEDERAL RBPORTER. 
MoTER and anotîier ». Adams, Assignee of Stoner &amp; Moyer. 
Stoneb and another v. Adams, Assignee of Stoner &amp; Moyer. 
[Circuit Court, D. Indiana. April, 1880.) 
HrrsBAKi) aîtdWiph — Fraudulent Conveyance to ATifb. — Awifecan- 
not allow the husband to use and appropriate her property as liis owa 
for years, and incorporate a part of his own means into it, and then, upon 
a conveyance of the whole from her husband, make valid claim to it as 
against his creditors. 
Mr. Winter, for appellants. 
Mr. Harris, for appellee. 
Dbummond, C. J. The case of Moyer et al. v. Adams was a 
bill filed in the district court by the assignee of Stoner &amp; 
Moyer to set aside eonveyances made on the twenty-fourth 
of November, 1877, by Moyer to Stephen C. Shank, and by 
Shank to the wife of Moyer, on the ground they were fraudu- 
lent as against creditors. Stoner &amp; Moyer were adjudicated 
bankrupts ontheir own petition on May 18, 1878. 
It does not clearly appear, by the evidence submitted to 
the court in this case, at what time Moyer became the owner 
of the property covered by the conveyance. The inference is 
that it was not later than 1869. Moyer bought the land with 
his own money and property. He had sold some real estate 
belonging to him many.years before the bankruptcy, when he 
was comparatively frae from debts, and made a present to his 
wife ont of the proceeds of the sale of the sum of $500, and 
she took possession of the money and retained it, as she says, 
about a year. Then Moyer wanted it, and she gave it to 
him for the purpose of being used in the construction of the 
house placed on the property, and in which they lived ; this 
must have been as early as 1869. When she gave her hus- 
band the money no note or other evidence of the debt was 
executed to her. There was no agreement about paying any 
interest. AVhen needing the money, he asked for it to use 
in building, and she voluntarily gave it to him for that pur- 
pose. He says that the deed was made to her to secure her&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bm13x3c94a3jpkvpjl4ans318101p2h</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/223</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639531</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133139</id>
      <parentid>8170737</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:10:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDBB →  FEDER,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (12)</comment>
      <origin>15133139</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2024" sha1="mxfrfrdu4komps91kz553h31yht1q7j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;216 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
the butts of the needle to lift the end of the swing cam up to 
free the latch, the yarn carrier hàd been adapted to efïect the 
same object; and to throw down the swing cam a simple 
weight had been attached to the end thereof and used for the 
purpose. 
It is quite obvions that theee changes are mereiy equiva- 
lents of the complainant's devices, and that their use is an 
infringement on the claim of his patents. 
2. As to the want of novelty, Among the large number 
of patents which the defendant exhibited to prove the 
laek of novelty, it is remarkable that many of them are 
younger than the complainants', and there is no evidence 
that the date of the alleged inventions was earlier than the 
date of the respective patents. 
At the hearing the counsel of the defendant seemed to rely 
chiefly upon three machines, which he produced, and which 
are known as the Lamb machine, the Leech machine, and 
the Franz &amp; Pope machine. They were exhibited as show- 
ing machines made in accordanee with letters patent of prior 
date to some of the patents of the complainant, and as antic- 
ipating his inventions. 
The defendant, on his cross -examination, admits that the 
Lamb machine is not circular, but has a straight bed for the 
needles and cams, and that it cannot make a circular web 
without using both sets of needles and cams. 
In reference to the Franz &amp; Pope machine the defendant 
proved, on the cross-examination of the comjjlainant, that the 
complainant in fact made the identical model which accom- 
panied their application for letters patent as early as the 
latter part of the year 1867, or the beginning of 1868. 
As to the Leach machine: Mr. Leach, also, was in the 
employ of the complainant at the time he made his model for 
his patents, and the date of his patents is long after the date 
of the complainants.* 
I am of the opinion, also, that the defendant has failed in 
his defence of want of novelty, and there must be a decree 
for the complainant.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mxfrfrdu4komps91kz553h31yht1q7j</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/251</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639560</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133140</id>
      <parentid>14560695</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:10:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: persoii →  person,  FBD →  FED,  FEDBB →  FEDER,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133140</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2275" sha1="4c6wn2oy9ej87voe34dbcbnsqnu01az" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;244 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
In cases of this description the ship heraelf is held respon- 
eible for the failure of her crew to discharge a duty ariaing 
ont of the navigation of the ship, and owing to all other ships 
and the persons on board thereof. In such cases admiralty 
courts apply to the ship herself the rule that &quot;a principal is 
liable for the acts and negligence of the agent in the course 
of his employment, although he did not authorize or did not 
know of the acts complained of.&quot; R. Co. v. Hanning, 15 Wall. 
649. &quot;By the maritime law the vessel, as well as the owners, is 
liable to the party injured for damages caused by its torts. By 
that law the vessel is deemed to be an offending thing, and may 
be prosecuted without any reference to the adjustment of re- 
sponsibility between the owners and employes for the negli- 
gence which resillted in the injury.&quot; Sherlock v. AUing, 93 
U. S. 108. 
So, also, ships are oharged in the admiralty for a failure of 
their crews to perform contracts made for the transportation 
and safe delivery of the cargo of the ship. In those cases 
the ship herself is oharged because of the relation of the con- 
traet to the employment of the ship ; but the liability of the 
ship is not confined to cases arising from faulty navigation, 
or eut of a breach of the contract of affreightment, as waa 
said by the learned judge who rendered the decision in the 
case of the Germania, so greatly relied on by the claimants. 
But in all these cases there is a duty on the part of the offi- 
cers and crew, as representing the owner, and in the discharge 
of the authority entrusted to them by him, and while acting 
within the scope of such authority, not be negligent towards 
the person to whom the liabilit/ is incurred. The duty may 
arise out of the fact that the vessel is being navigated, or is 
anchored in the pathway of other vessels, or has a relation by 
contract to the person injured, in person or property, and no 
-doubt out of other circumstances. Jennings v. Bark Ger- 
mania, Blatchford, J., MSS. March 12, 1878. 
Such a liability, in my opinion, exista where damage arisea 
from the neglect on the part of the owner of a ship to dis- 
charge any duty arising on navigable waters out of the em-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4c6wn2oy9ej87voe34dbcbnsqnu01az</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/261</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639570</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133141</id>
      <parentid>14558892</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:10:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER,  FEDBB →  FEDER, EDERAIi  → EDERAL ,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133141</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2233" sha1="rlnj2m22y35t021ybn5sb023pv4yc07" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;254 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
The respondent claims that the piece of the boiler found on 
the deck might have been burned after the explosion by the 
fire left in the furnace. This is mere conjecture, without any 
evidence to support it, and the resuit of the explosion, as dis- 
closed by the evidence, renders such a theory extremely im- 
probable. This evidence makes it perfectly clear that the 
boilers of the boat were not in a sound condition at the time 
of that explosion, and that their unsafe condition v^as due to 
the carelessness of the engineers, or one of them. It may 
have been owing to the carelessness of Moultrie, the engineer 
on duty at the time of the explosion, or of the second engineer, 
Sherman, who admitted after the disaster that it was not his 
habit to try the water-gauge cocks, and who for this negli- 
gence has had his license revoked. 
It is also in evidence that the boat very frequently carried 
more passeng'ers than she was allowed to. With ail this tes- 
timony touching the management of the boat by her engineers 
and the condition of the boilers at the time of the explosion, 
we are asked to find that the explosion was caused by some 
hidden defect in the material out of which the boilers were 
constructed, and not to defects caused by carelessness and 
bad management. No hidden defect is shown to exist, and 
we are asked to infer it from the good character of the engi- 
neers. The facts prove that the engineers were careless and 
negligent, and the resuit of that negligence is shown by the 
condition of the boilers at the time of the explosion. The 
natural and almost unavoidable inference is that the explosion 
was the resuit of the bad treatment of the boilers by the 
engineers, and not the resuit of some concealed flaw. 
In my judgment, the presumption of negligence arising 
from the fact of the explosion is not removed, but is greatly 
strengthened, by the evidence in the case, and the libellant 
must have a decree for the damage that he has sustained. 
Upon the facts, as disclosed by the evidence, I estimate his 
damage at $5,000, and direct a decree in his favor against 
the boat for that sum, and costs, both in this court and in 
the district court.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rlnj2m22y35t021ybn5sb023pv4yc07</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/269</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639579</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133142</id>
      <parentid>8170789</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:10:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133142</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2214" sha1="t1jyev8fxyui5hbhzelwelsa32okr8r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;262 FEDBEAL REPORTBB. 
contract price and the market price. His losg was $486.78. 
The evidence on this subject appears in the testimony of 
Joseph Nixon, at page 67 et seq., and of John F. Kelling, at 
page 146 et seq. It does not appear that there was any 
market for coal at New Cumberland, or that the libellant could 
have done anything to avert or lessen the loss. 
The respondents insist that they ought not to be charged 
with this loss.' But why not ? Upon what just principle can 
it be thrown upon the libellant ? His loss was neither re- 
mote, speculative nor uncertain. It was an actual loss, and 
the direct resuit of the collision. If the rule of indemnity or 
compensation is to prevail, the damages decreed to the libel- 
lant should embrace the loss he sustained on his coal. It 
has been held that the owner of the injured vessel may re- 
cover for freight lost by reason of the collision. The Atlas, 
3 Otto, 307, And in Van Tine v. The Lake, 2 Wall. Jr. 62, 
there was an allowance for loss of profits to the vessel during 
the time she was being repaired. Was the libellant's loss on 
his coal any less direct or certain than sueh loss of profits, or 
a loss of freight earnings ? I am of opinion that the second 
item of the libellant's claim is well founded and should be 
allowed. 
Third. But the item as set down in the bill of particulara 
— &quot;loss on trip, $612.49&quot; — stands on a different footing. This 
estimate is made by the libellant upon a comparison of the 
net earnings of the hoat upon a prior and subsequent trip. 
His opinion as to this supposed loss is no doubt an honest one. 
But his own witness, J. W. Clarke, in answer to a question as 
to the probable profits of that trip, said : &quot;It is a pretty hard 
thing to figure that thing up. If she made a steady trip she 
wouldn't make very much.&quot; Page 187. If it be conceded 
that such loss of profits would be allowable in a proper case, 
the claim as here presented, it se.ems to me, is not satisfac- 
torily established. It rests largely upon mere conjecture. 
Moreover, after the interruption of llj days, the trip was 
resumed and completed. 
A more reasonable claim set up by the libellant is that for&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t1jyev8fxyui5hbhzelwelsa32okr8r</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/277</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639587</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133144</id>
      <parentid>14560705</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:11:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: wheu  →  when ,  FBD →  FED,  FEDBB →  FEDER, EDERAIi  → EDERAL , POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133144</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1877" sha1="nj1n8k1ttmlu4qemrbtlefyfw16cvan" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;270 FEDERAL SEPORTER. 
avail anything to save her. Moreover, the service rendered 
by the tug would have been qf no value whatever had it not 
been for the presence of the fire department. Indeed, had not 
the firemen been present on the dock, the barge could not 
have been aided in the least by the tug, as it would in that 
case have been impossible to have taken her to a pier for 
fear of igniting other vessels, and of no service to her to have 
been towed elsewhere. The presence of the firemen on the 
pier enabled the tug to place the barge where water could be 
got upon the fire a few moments sooner than would have been 
the case had the barge been left to be dealt with by the Have- 
meyer. 
The barge was saved by the fire department, the tug con- 
tributing in some degree to that resuit. It is not a case, 
therefore, where the service of the tug can be rewarded as in 
case of saving derelict property. Nor can the tug be entitled 
to all the credit of saving the property ; and, of course she 
bas no right to compensation for what the fire department 
did. 
The tug should bave a compensation liberal for the time 
and labor expended, and increased by the fact that the ser- 
vice was rendered in the face of a supposed danger which 
caused one tug to abandon an attempt to render service ; and 
this reward should also be suoh as to encourage tugs to ren- 
der aid to vessels that may be similarly situated in the future. 
But the law of salvage, while it gives a liberal reward, does 
not encourage extortionate demanda. In view of all the cir- 
cumstances, I am of the opinion that $350 is a proper sal- 
vage to be awarded to the tug for her services on the occasion 
in question. 
The libellants are entitled to a decree for that amount, and 
also to their costs. An apportionment among those entitled 
to share will be made when required.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nj1n8k1ttmlu4qemrbtlefyfw16cvan</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/305</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639615</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133145</id>
      <parentid>8170829</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:11:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133145</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2340" sha1="o79hu5yd9ol5wspib9jetyif7bhso0n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;298 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
not doubtful, and the bill must stand, unless there is no equity 
stated therein, and this brings me to the consideration of the 
other ground of demarrer. 
2, The defendants demur for want of equity in the bill. 
The bill alleges, in substance, that the trustees, in the deed to 
secure the $3,000,000 issue of bonds, in May, 1874, at the 
instance of John S. Kennedy, one of the defendants in this suit, 
and the agent of a eommittee of Amsterdam bond holders, 
having in their hands and under their control a majority of 
the bonds of this series, commenced a suit against the First 
Division of the St. Paul &amp; Pacific Kailroad Company and othera 
to foreclose the trust deed, and that after the commence- 
ment' of the suit Kennedy, the agent, entered into an agree- 
ment with the defendant company for the suspension of the 
prosecution of the suit, and the trustees who instituted it, at 
his instance, suspended the prosecution of the same for sev- 
eral years, and until requested by him to proceed; that some- 
time in 1878 one of the trustees resigned, and Kennedy was 
appointed as trustee and co-complainant in said foreclosure 
suit, and thereafter acted in the capacity of trustee in said 
trust deed and foreclosure suit, and as the special agent of 
the eommittee, and of the bond holders who had placed their 
bonds in the hands of the eommittee for control and manage 
ment; that on the ninth of October, 1876, the trustees, in- 
cluding Kennedy, under the authority conferred in the deed 
of trust, took possession of the railroad appurtenances and 
property covered by the trust deed, and operated the road, 
and that in 1876 or 1877 Donald A. Smith, George Stephen, 
N. W. Kittson, James J. Hill and others formed a syndicats 
for the purpose of acquiring the Une of railroad, etc., covered 
by the mortgage, under the foreclosure proceedings and a 
sale, and made a proposition, through Kennedy, to the eom- 
mittee of Amsterdam bond holders for the purohase and con- 
trol of the bonds in their hands, and that Kennedy, the agent 
of a eommittee of bond holders, and trustee for ail the bond 
holders, entered into an agreement with Smith, Stephen, Kitt- 
eon and Hill for the purchase and control of the bonds held by 
the eommittee, and into negotiations which contemplated the&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>o79hu5yd9ol5wspib9jetyif7bhso0n</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/359</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639670</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133148</id>
      <parentid>8170885</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: POBTER → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, FEBBBAL → FEDERAL, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133148</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2230" sha1="qr42hdd02sitlvnf1m1dn4c78jhr7ve" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;353 ' FEDERAL REPORTER. 
in tHat way, because the assignors were -willing to stand by 
its effect upon their property of various kinds, situated under 
various circumstances, whatever the effect might turn out to 
be ; and an assignment of what by law could be taken was 
ail the creditors had any right to claim. So Caswell is enti- 
tled to one-ninth of the whole sum reported by the master, 
$7,000, and Clexton is entitled also to one-ninth, and so much 
of the profits of one-ninth as accrued before March 31, 1879, 
in addition; and Eddy is entitled to the profits of the same 
ninth -which accrued subsequently to that time. 
The profits allowed consist in money saved from salaries, 
at a uniform rate, so that the amount due to the ninth share 
of Eddy, for the time before March 31, 1879, and for the 
time subsequent, is readily computed. For the time before it 
is $6,125, and for the time subsequent $875. 
Therefore, of the profits reported by the mas- 
ter, the orator is entitled to - - - $42,000 
Samuel E. Clexton to - - - - 13,125 
Horace T. Caswell to - ■ - - 7,000 
Charles Eddy to .... 875 
The defendant James bas moved for a stay of proceedings 
in this cause, on aecount of a suit brought in this court 
against him for the same infringement, by the personal rep- 
resentatives of William W. Secombe, under whom the plain- 
tiff claims title, in which it is alleged that the title to this 
patent did not pass from Secombe because the deed from 
him did not in terms cover it ; and that, if it did, the contraot 
pursuant to which the deed was made was that this patent 
should not be conveyed, and that the deed should be reformed 
to that extent. This motion bas been heard at the same 
time with the exceptions to the master 's report. As the cases 
now stand this plaintiff cannot be affected by any paroi contract 
between the parties to that deed, as to what it should cover. 
He is a purchaser for valuable consideration, without notice 
of any such outstanding equitable claim to the patent, if it 
exists. The laws relating to patents require the title to the 
patent to be shown by the records of the patent of&amp;ee, and he 
had a right to rely upon the title there shown. That the&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qr42hdd02sitlvnf1m1dn4c78jhr7ve</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/397</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639715</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133149</id>
      <parentid>8170927</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPORT →  REPORT, EPORTEB → EPORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133149</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2298" sha1="t2u0xfmry6rm53qo1vrjy1w40gftr3y" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;390 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
New York the Plainmeller, after putting her machinery in 
order, proceeded to Philadelphia, where siae waited several 
days before her cargo was ready for her. The ordinary 
speed of the Plainmeller, as she was before taking the Adi- 
rondack in tow, was nine and a half knots. Her speed with 
the other vessel in tow was about seven knots. 
Upon these facts I think there can be no question that the 
sum demanded by the captain of the Plainmeller and finally 
assented to by the captain of the Adirondack — £4,000 — was 
very largely in excess of that liberal compensation which 
courts of admiralty award for similar services, and that the 
amoiint tendered, which is a little more than £1,500, is fully 
up to the measure of salvage award which any court of admi- 
ralty would give for the service rendered- 
The Adirondack was in no present peril. She was teûipo- 
rarily disabled in her machinery, but unless overtaken by 
very tempestuous weather her machinery could have been soon 
repaired, so that she could proceed on her voyage. Her 
cargo was not perishable. There is no proof that the broken 
machinery endangered the safety of the ship. She was oth- 
erwise sound and able to keep the sea for an indeûnite time. 
The place where she was was the open ocean, with no risk of 
going ashore. She had no passengers. The Plainmeller dô- 
viated very little from her voyage. She had neither cargo 
nor passengers. Although her compensation was contingent 
on her success there was little risk of failure to complete the 
service, as she was a powerful' steamer, well able to tow the 
Adirondack. She incurred very little appreciable danger in 
rendering the service beyond that incident to every sea voy- 
age. The necessary delay was not, under the circumstances 
in which she was placed, such as involved any special damage 
or inconvenienee to her. In no one of the several elements 
which the courts of admiralty consider, in estimating the 
amount of salvage, was the case such as to require an extra- 
ordinary reward. See The City of Berlin, 37 L. T. 307; The 
Herman Ludwig, Vice Adm'y Ct. of Nova Scotia; Pacific M. 
S. S. Co. V. Ten Baies Gunny Bags, 3 Sawy. 187; The Cityof 
Eichmond, 25 Mitch. Mar. Eeg. 271; The Yorkshire, Id. 114;&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t2u0xfmry6rm53qo1vrjy1w40gftr3y</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/409</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639728</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133150</id>
      <parentid>14627577</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEBA →  FEDERA, ERAIi → ERAL, DERAL BE → DERAL RE, REFORT → REPORT, ORTK → ORTE, ORTEB → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133150</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2279" sha1="17sq7yub8i2tvefyvbc4tcqb4bwo0ek" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;402 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
-contraot, and may be proceeded against in rem for a non- 
performance. Such was the view taken by Judge Emmons 
in the case of The Williams, 1 Brown's Adm. 208; and 
although the court went much further in that case, and held 
that every maritime contract, f rom the moment of its inception, 
pledged the vessel to its complete performance, the case cannot 
be considered as a controUing authority for this proposition. 
In that case a tug was hired to go to the assistance of a vessel 
whioh had been reported aground on the shore of Lake Huron. 
On arriving at the spot it was found that the vessel had been 
gotten ofif, and the tug returned home without rendering her 
*ny actual assistance. It was held that a proceeding in rem 
would lie to recover the stipulated compensation. I bave no 
doubt whatever of the correctness of this ruling. I bave had 
occasion myself to apply the same doctrine in several cases 
wbich bave arisen in this district since I bave been upon the 
bencb. Judge Baxter also adopted it in the recent unreported 
case of the Melissa. 
Prior to the decisions of the supreme court in the case of 
The Freeman, 18 How. 182, and The Yankee Blade, (in Van- 
derwater v. Milla,) 19 How. 82, the question of jurisdiotion 
in the cases of executory agreements was unsettled, and 
even those cases cannot be said to bave definitely fixed the 
measure of liability. They seem rather to bave announced 
in general terms a doctrine from which the supreme court 
bas not as yet shown any disposition to recede. 
The question does not seem to bave been settled in Eng- 
land, although in the case of The City of London, 1 Wm. Rob- 
inson, 88, Dr. Lushington was disposed to concede that &quot;if 
a seaman is engaged on board a vessel, and the owners 
think fit to abandon the voyage for which the seaman bas 
been engaged, he would not be entitled to sue in admiralty 
for bis redress, but must seek bis remedy at common law, 
by an action on the case.&quot; This is the only intimation I 
bave found upon the subject in the English admiralty, prob- 
ably owing to the fact that it had no jurisdiotion over con- 
iraots' of aflfreigbtment nntil recently. The case of The 
Sckooner Tribune, 3 Sumner, 144, decided by Mr. Justice Story,&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>17sq7yub8i2tvefyvbc4tcqb4bwo0ek</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/417</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639737</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133151</id>
      <parentid>8170950</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTKB → PORTER,  BEPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133151</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2323" sha1="5emqi04x4h7pusymid2iaudkrd5nwj3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;*10 MiDBBAt REPORTER. 
Nblsoh, D. J. ThiB iB a libel in rem against ressel and 
freight for f ailure to deliver goods according to the tenus of a bill 
of lading. It appears by the bill of lading and indorsementa 
thereon that in May, 1879, the schooner Centennial, then 
lying in the port of Cardenas, in the island of Cuba, bound 
for Bostbn, received on board, in good order and well condi- 
tioned, 500 hogsheads of sugar, to be delivered in like good 
order and condition (the dangers of the seas only excepted) 
to the libellants, at Boston, they paying freight for the same. 
On her voyage to Boston she sprung a leak, and a consider- 
able portion of the sugar was destroyed by the action of sea 
water. The question in the case is whether the loss arose 
from dangers of the seas, within the exception in the bill of 
lading, or from the unseaworthiness of the vessel. 
The Centennial is a three-masted, two-decked, center-board 
schooner, of 654 tons register. Her length is 135 feet on her 
keel, her breadth of beam 35 feet, and her draft of water when 
loaded is 13J feet. She sailed from Cardenas May 27th. In 
her passage through the straits of Florida she encountered 
the cross seas usually met with in that region, which caused 
her to labor heavily, owing to her great length and breadth 
of beam as compared with her light draft, a peculiarity com- 
mon to center-board vessels of her class. Her after-pumps 
were regularly tried or sounded once in four hours, from the 
time she left Cardenas until she arrived off Cape Hatteras, 
Jnne 3d, without diselosing the presence of water, when ail at 
once it was discovered that she had seven and a half feet of 
water in her hold. As soon as this was known her course 
was immediately changea, and she proceeded to Philadelphia, 
her home port, where she was pumped out and her cargo dis- 
charged. She was then placed in a dry-dock and examined, 
and it was ascertained that she had suffered no strain in her 
timbers and planking, but that her seams were generally slack, 
and a space seven inches long was found in the seam next 
the garboard streak, at about the center of the huU, whero 
the oakum was entirely gone. She was then newly caulked 
througbout, her cargo reloaded, and she proceeded to Boston 
with what was left of her sugar.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5emqi04x4h7pusymid2iaudkrd5nwj3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/429</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639749</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133152</id>
      <parentid>14560794</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133152</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2274" sha1="4ezcqcgs5ny6onympy1s6h5ozx0urx3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;423 PE»BEAL REPORTER. 
where they are incurrçd. Story Conflict of Laws, §§ 101-102; 
Wharton, § 115. 
That this contrariety of opinion still exista is shown by a 
very recent case in England, (Sattomeyer v. De Barros,) de- 
cided by the Ligh court of justice, in which Sir James Haunen 
takes occasion to eriticise the views expressed by the lord 
justices, in the court of appeals, in the same case. Upon an 
appeal from the decision of Sir E. Pillimore, Sir James 
Haunen says: &quot;The lord justices appear to have laid down 
as a principle of law a proposition which was much wider in 
its terms than was necessary for the determination of the 
case before them. It is there expressed : 'It is a well-recog- 
nized principle of law that the question of personal inca- 
pacity to enter into any contract is to be decided by the law 
of domicile.* And, again: 'As in other contraots, so in that 
of marriage, personal capacity must depend on the law of 
domicile.&quot; It is, of course, competent for the court of ap- 
peals to lay down a principle which, if it forma the basis of 
the judgment of that court, must, unless it be disclaimed by 
the house of lorda, be binding on all future cases. But I 
trust I may be permitted, without disrespect, to say that the 
principle thus laid down bas not hitherto been 'well recog- 
nized.' On the contrary, it appears to me to be a novel 
principle, for which, up to the present time, there bas been no 
English authority. What authority there is seems to be dis- 
tinctly the other way. 
&quot;Thia is the case of Meade v. Roherîs, 3 Exch. 183. The 
contract on which defendant was sued was made in Scotland. 
The defence was that the defendant was an infant; but Lord 
Eldon held the defence bad, saying : ' If the law of Scotland 
is that such a contract as the present could not be enforced 
against an infant, it should bave been given in evidence. 
The law of the country where the contract arose must gov- 
ern the contract.' Sir E. Simpson, in the case of Schrim- 
shire v. Schrimshire, 2 Cons. 395, when dealing with the sub- 
ject, says: 'These authorities show that all contracta are to 
be considered according to the laws of the country where they 
are made; and the practice of civilized countries has been&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4ezcqcgs5ny6onympy1s6h5ozx0urx3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/465</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639788</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133154</id>
      <parentid>14560824</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PEDEEA → FEDERA,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133154</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2284" sha1="lxnen8v1lpw98k47tz8aos8lr5ybpg5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;458 FEDERAL REPORTBB. 
plea, have duly presented the same to the court, or otherwîse 
he would be debarred from asserting it. This was not done 
by him. The defence of want of jurisdiction under such cir- 
cumstances is purely technical, and the bankrupt bas chosen 
not to present it and insist upon it. Creditors of the bank- 
rupt are in no respect damnified by the conduct of the bank- 
rupt. Whatever their rights may have been they are still in 
full force, and nothing has transpired which can in any way 
injure any one of the creditors. It is said very often in the 
books that an assignee in bankruptcy is not estopped by fraud 
of the bankrupt, but by this ia understood a fraud which in 
some way may prove detrimental to the rights of creditors. 
The circuit court has prescribed its rules as to the methods 
and times at which objections to its jurisdiction must be pre- 
sented for determination, and if, upon the record as it stands, 
the court has jurisdiction, and the defendant does not, within 
the rules, make manifest his objection, he will be forever 
estopped from availing himself of it ; and so, likewise, will be 
ail other parties who are in privity with such defendant. 
If a party has in apt words duly averred his citizenship, in 
an action instituted by him in the circuit court, and the 
defendant at the proper time fails to controvert it, the ques- 
tion of citizenship is no longer open to inquiry, either on the 
part of the defendant or any one claiming under him, smi 
according to well-settled principles his assignee in bankruptcj 
cannot be heard to deny such citizenship of the plaintiff. 
The case is clearly within the rule hereinbefore stated, as 
taken from the opinion of the supreme court in Yeapman v. 
Savings Institution. 
If the court is willing to accept the allegations and assume 
jurisdiction, and hear and determine the cause, all the fraud 
which has been perpetrated has been practiced upon the court, 
and in the present case, in the opinion of the court, each 
party has been alike involved in it. The court has thus been 
induced to act and assume a jurisdiction which it should not 
have been called upon to do, but the judgment itself is en- 
tirely valid, and the rights of the parties cannot be said to&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lxnen8v1lpw98k47tz8aos8lr5ybpg5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/473</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639808</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133155</id>
      <parentid>14560833</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tbey  →  they ,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133155</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2278" sha1="iaqoyrhswpcwearabvmpao22e8y7097" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;466 PEDBBAL REPORT];a. 
value between the cities of Boston and New York over the 
line of the Boston &amp; Worcester Eailroad, and the Une of 
Bteamers Connecting therewith, and plying between New York 
and Norwich. This enterprise proved remunerative. His 
Buccess induced others to establish and maintain similar 
express lines between New York and Philadelphia, and Phila- 
delphia and Baltimore, and other important commercial 
points. These all succeeded well, and grew into general 
favor, and continued in actual operation until July, 1854. 
Ai this time, by the mutual consent of the parties interested, 
these several express companies were Consolidated and merged 
into the Adams Express Company, a voluntary association or 
partnership, which was formed and organized under the 
authority of the laws of New York. This company, upon its 
organization, entered actively upon business, and prosecuted 
the same with unusual energy and success; it extended its 
operations over many of the most prominent railroads and 
water lines, and earned, as it justly merited, the confidence 
of its patrons and the general public. At the commence- 
ment of the rebellion it was doing an extensive and profitable 
business within the southern states, but the exigencies of 
war forced a suspension of its business within the insurrec- 
tionary territory, of which exigencies the complainant, the 
Southern Express Company, was born. 
The complainant is a corporation organized under and 
pursuant to a charter granted by the state of Georgia, and 
by purchase succeeded to the property, business and good- 
will of the Adams Express Company, within the southern 
states ; but the two companies,'notwithstanding their separate 
existence, sustained close business relations, and agreed to 
the interchange of freights on terms beneficiai to themselves 
and to their customers. By this friendly co-operation and 
judicious interchange of business they so far preserved their 
unity as to secure to their patrons all the conveniences fchat 
could have been afforded by one company doing the business 
within the territory ocoupied by them both. Among other 
business of the Adams Express Company, to which complain- 
ant succeeded, was the business which the former company&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>iaqoyrhswpcwearabvmpao22e8y7097</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/475</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639810</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133156</id>
      <parentid>8171013</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133156</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2354" sha1="h0jtd4nc0kag7hjg5a36tqziy150tjy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;468 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
bïiefly the objecta for which railroada were created, and the 
obligations and duties imposed on them by law. 
Eailroads are quasi public institutions; they are authorized 
to facilitate, and not to control or force from legitimate and 
natural channels, or hinder or obstruot, the business of the 
country. Hence, the companies organized to construct them 
were invested with the right of eminent domain, with authority 
to condemn private property necessarytothefullenjoymentof 
their franchise, on paying just compensation therefor. The 
authority to do this could only be conferred upon the theory 
that the public interests which they are supposed to repre- 
Bent require such seizure and appropriation. Under our 
government private property cannot be taken for any other 
than public uses; vested rights can be made to yield only to 
the public necessities. Eailroads are held to be such necessi- 
ties, and it is solely on this ground that their constraction has 
been encouraged by liberal grants of power, and aided by 
private and public contributions. As quasi public instru- 
mentalities, organized to promote the public good, they are, 
unless plainly and constitutionally exempted from such lia- 
bility, amenable to such just regulations as the legislative 
department may choose from time to time to prescribe. AU 
laws deemed necessary to insure good faithin the exercise of 
their franchises, or to enforce an honest, impartial and 
«fiScient discharge of their legal duties and obligations, may 
be enacted, and if the right has not been contracted away the 
legislature may prescribe their schedule of charges, compel 
every necessary facility to the public and to individuals, to 
the estent of their means, enact police regulations, limit the 
speed of trains, command the use of signais, and order or 
iuhibit the doing of any and everything expedient to advance 
the general interest of commerce and intercommunication, 
insure safety to travelers, and generally to subserve the pur- 
poses of their creation, restricted only by the constitutional 
limitation that vested rights are not impaired without just 
compensation ; and they are as amenable to the unwritten (as 
j't has been judicially expounded) as to the statute law. 
The first, and perhaps the most important, of these prinoi-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>h0jtd4nc0kag7hjg5a36tqziy150tjy</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/477</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639812</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133157</id>
      <parentid>8171015</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EDEBAL  → EDERAL ,  TEDERAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133157</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2351" sha1="olp5lvqd07bvd5g20k1mh0tmza9uiuo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;470 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
further consideration is found to be more plausible than sub- 
stantial. As a common carrier the defendant is as much 
bound to carry for another common carrier as it is to carry 
for other persona. Tiie proposition, as it is stated, will not 
be controverted. Defendant cannot, and does not, deny its 
obligation to carry for the complainant. Its claim is that it 
is only bound to carry for the complainant when complainant, 
like other forwarders, delivers its freight into its care and 
custody to be handled, transported and delivered by it through 
its own agents and servants, and that complainant bas no 
legal right to demand and enforce the use of defendant 'a 
passenger trains for the purpose of carrying freight in the 
special keeping of its own employes, to be by them handled 
in transit, and delivered at way stations and other places of 
consignment, and to have provided therefor special accom- 
modations, such as have been heretofore supplied to it under 
special contraets. It is upon this point the contest is to turn. 
The issue is not, therefore, -whether the defendant is bound 
to carry for the complainant, but can it be compelled to carry 
in the manner and with the divided responsibility proposed, 
Herein lies the novelty and importance of the question. 
No such question could have well arisen a half a century 
ago, because the methods of doing business and the facilities 
then provided for inland tra,nsportation were not such as to 
raise it. But we have made wonderful progress since that 
time in physical as well as mechanical development, and no 
instrumentality subject to man's service bas been more po- 
tential in bringing about the change than railroads. Trop- 
ical fruits, fish from the oceans and lakes, and oysters from 
the bays, are now, through the co-operative energies of rail- 
roads and express carriers, within the reach of almost every 
community. These facilities, making possible and suggest- 
ing never-ending changes in the methods of business, and 
gradually, but certamly, making changes in the habits and 
tastes of the masses of our people, have opened up the way 
for and called express transportation into use. The dutiea 
aud offices of railroads and express carriers are widely dif- 
ferent and totally distinct. The former was created to fur-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>olp5lvqd07bvd5g20k1mh0tmza9uiuo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/485</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639821</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133158</id>
      <parentid>8171025</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (5)</comment>
      <origin>15133158</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2315" sha1="90k4b2vlyjfbpldor4nfezry4awy2gb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;473 FEDBEAL REPOKTEE. 
interfering with, or disturbing in any manner, the enjoyraent 
by the Adams Express Company of the facilities now ac- 
corded to it by the said defendant upon its lines of railway, 
for the transaction of the business of the said Adams Ex- 
press Company, and of the express business of the public 
confided to its care; and from interfering with any of the 
express matter or messengers of the Adams Express Com- 
pany; and from excluding or ejecting any of its express 
matter, or messengers, or employes, from the depôts, cars 
and lines of said defendant, as the same bave been hereto- 
fore and are now enjoyed and occupied by the said Adams 
Express Company ; and from refusing to receive and trans- 
port in like manner, as the said defendant is now doing, 
over its lines of railway, express matter and messengers of 
the said Adams Express Company ; and from interfering with 
or disturbing the business of the said Adams Express Com- 
pany in any way or manner whatsoever, and from refusing 
to permit the Adams Express Company to continue the trans- 
action of its said business over the lines of the defendant 
on the same terms, conditions, privileges, facilities and ac- 
comodations as are or may be permitted or accorded to any 
other express company, or to or by the defendant itself, in 
the conduct of an express business over its railway lines, 
npon the payment by the said Adams Express Company of 
ail lawful and reasonable charges which may be properly de- 
manded by the said defendant, or paid by such other express 
company or by the public to the defendant therefor, not in 
excess of the rates authorized by its charter, and not in 
excess of the rates charged to others for similar services, 
nor of those received by the defendant from shippers of ex- 
press matter to be carried by the defendant as such ; in the 
last case, less the reasonable cost of the accessorial service 
rendered by the railroad lines, and at the stations and on the 
trains of the said defendant, and with liberty to the parties 
to make such further application herein to the court as they 
may be advised is necessary to fix what is and shall be a 
lawful and reasonable compensation, or for any other matter 
growing out of the case. In event of a dispute betweea the&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>90k4b2vlyjfbpldor4nfezry4awy2gb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/527</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639864</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133161</id>
      <parentid>12451938</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:13:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PEDE →  FEDE,  EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133161</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2345" sha1="h14ufexd6yzu0uscfoxhg0eohw2yc0d" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;520 FEDEKAL REPOP.TER. 
ment roU or tax list, shall make application to the county 
judge of the county in which such municipal corporation is 
situate, by petition verified by one of the petitioners, setting 
forth that they are such majority of tax payers, and are taxed 
or assessed for, or represent, such a majority of taxable prop- 
erty, and that they desire that such municipal corporation 
shall create and issue its bonds to an amount named in such 
petition, and invest the same, or the proceeds thereof, in the 
stock or bonds (as said petition may direct) of such railroad 
company in this state as may be named in said petition, it 
shall be the duty of said county judge to order that a notice 
shall be forthwith pubished, ******»♦* 
direeted to whom it may concern, setting forth that, on a day 
therein named, * * * he will proceed to take proof of 
the facts set forth in said petition as to the number of tax 
payers joining in said petition, and as to the amount of tax- 
able property represented by them. * * * ïiie words 
' municipal corporation,' when used in this act, shall be con- 
strued to mean any city, town or incorporated village in this 
state, and the words 'tax payer' shall mean any incorporation 
or person assessed or taxed for property, either individually 
or as agent, trustee, guardian, executor or administrator, or 
who shall bave been intended to have been thus taxed, and 
shall have paid, or are liable to pay, the tax as hereinbefore 
provided, or the owner of any non-resident lands taxed as such, 
notincluding those taxed for dogs or highway tax only. * *&quot; 
The second section of the act of 1869, as amended by the 
act of 1871, provides as follows : 
&quot;Sec. 2. It shall be the duty of the said judge, at the time 
and place named in the said notice, to proceed and take 
proof as to the said allegations in said petition, and if it shall 
appear satisfactorily to him that the said petitioners, or the 
said petitioners and such other tax payers of said municipal 
corporation as may then and there appear before him, and ex- 
press a desire to join as petitioners in said petition, do rep- 
resent a majority of the tax payers of said municipal corpo- 
ration, as shown by the last preceding tax list or assessment 
roll, and do represent a majority of the taxable property&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>h14ufexd6yzu0uscfoxhg0eohw2yc0d</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/529</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639866</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133162</id>
      <parentid>14644102</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:13:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL, TEB. → TER., POKTER → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133162</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2264" sha1="7mjufyttx61komo64le52kh9lb1ojdo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;522 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
that the supreme court, at general term, shall have power at 
any time, by the usual process of said court in like cases, on 
notice and for good cause shown, to prevent, by injunction, 
the issuing of the bonds. 
Section 4 of the act of May 12, 1871, providea as foUows: 
&quot;Eeview of proceedings under the acts hereby amended,&quot; 
(that is 1869, c. 907, and 1870, c. 507,) &quot;shall be by certiorari, 
and no certiorari shall be allowed unless said writ shall be 
allowed within 60 days after the last publication of the notice 
of the judge's final determination, as provided in section 2 
of this act. ••**** On the return of the 
certiorari the court out of which the same issued shall pro- 
ceed to consider the matter brought up thereby, and shall 
review all questions of law or of fact determined for or 
against either party by the , oounty judge. And the said 
courts, or court of appeals, in appeals now pending, and in 
all future proceedings, may reverse, or affirm, or modify, in 
all questions of law or fact, his final determination, or may 
remand the whole matter baek to said county judge to be 
again heard and determined by him. * * * Applica- 
tions for certiorari shall be on notice. On review, persons 
taxed for dogs or highway tax only shall not be counted as 
tax payera, unless that olaim was made before the county 
judge. * • •&quot; 
At the trial the plaintiff put in evidence the judgment roll 
of the judgment of the county judge of the county of Yates, 
recorded and entered in the book of judgments of that county 
on the ninth of October, 1871. There is, first, the petition, 
which was filed with the county judge on the fourth of Au- 
gust, 1871, and bears 246 signatures. It is in these words : 
&quot;To the Honorable, the County Judge of the County of ïates : 
The undersigned respectfully represent that they are a ma- 
jority of the tax payers of the town of Potter, in the county 
of Yates, whose names appear upon the last preceding tax 
list or assessment roll of said town as owning or represent- 
ing a majority of the taxable property in the corporate limita 
of said town ; and they f urther represent that they desire that 
said town of Potter shall create and issue its bonds to the&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7mjufyttx61komo64le52kh9lb1ojdo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/533</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639870</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133163</id>
      <parentid>8171079</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:13:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: wlio →  who, OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (5)</comment>
      <origin>15133163</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2347" sha1="nw8nz6v5mv2m86hkgijfwel92c2cmwy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;526 FEDEBaL BEFORTER. 
desire to join as petitioners in said petition as aforesaid, and 
did 80 join, and whose names also appear upon said tax list 
or assessment roll, do represent a majority of the tax payera 
of said town of Potter, as shown by the said last preceding 
tax list or assessment roll, the same being the tax list 
or assessment roll of the year 1870, and do represent a 
majority of the taxable property of the said town of Pot- 
ter, as shown by said last preeeding tax list or assessment 
roll, that the said amoant of bonds named in sueh petition 
does not exceed 20 per cent, of the whole amount of taxable 
property, as shown by the said tax list or assessment roll, and 
it is hereby adjudged and determined by the said county 
judge, and the said county judge doth hereby adjudge and 
determine, in purauance of the etatutes in such case made 
and provided, that the said petitioners whose names appear 
upon said tax list or assessment roll, and the other tax payers, 
aforesaid, of said town who did then and there on such pro- 
ceedings appear before him, and express a desire to join as 
petitioners in said petition as aforesaid, and did so join, and 
whose names also appear upon said tax list or assessment 
roll, do represent a majority of the tax payers of said town 
of Potter, as shown by said last preceding tax list or assess- 
ment roll, the same being the tax list or assessment roll of 
the year 1870, and do represent a majority of the taxable 
property of said town of Potter, as shown by said preeeding 
tax list or assessment roll ; and the said county judge hereby 
orders and directs that this judgment and determination be 
duly entered of record with the olerk of the county of ïates 
aforesaid, and the said county judge, in pursuance of the 
statute in such cases made and provided, doth hereby order 
adjudge and decree that Morris B. Flinn, John Southerland, 
and Lyman Loomis, who are freeholders, residents and tax 
payers within the corporate limits of the said town of Pot- 
ter, be and they are hereby appointed and commissioned by 
said county judge as commissioners for said town of Potter, 
for the purposes and uses provided for in chapter 907 of the 
Laws of the State of New York for the year 1869, and acta 
amendatory of the laws. In witness whereof, the said county&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nw8nz6v5mv2m86hkgijfwel92c2cmwy</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/543</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639881</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133164</id>
      <parentid>14560880</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:13:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, EPORTEB → EPORTER,  FEDK →  FEDE, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133164</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2301" sha1="7jua1k948jn7jdtgv5w9vsonl5j8xxc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;636 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
Pottle was indebted to the insurance company, on account of 
past transactions for the company, in the sum of $5,223.80, 
and between the date of the execution of the bond and Sep- 
tember 19, 1877, there became due to the company from Pot- 
tle, on account of business donc by him between those periods, 
$4,114.70. From April 6, 1877, the date of the bond, to 
September 19th of the same year, Pottle remitted to the com- 
pany $3,370, all of which was, by his direction, applied upon 
his indebtedness to the company which accrued prior to the 
execution of the bond. The purpose of the present bill is to 
obtain an injunction restraining proceedings for the collection 
of the judgment at law against complainants, for an account- 
ing to ascertain what is justly due to the defendant company 
on account of the defalcations of Pottle, and to avoid the legal 
effect of the judgment recovered against complainants as 
Pottle 's sureties on the bond. 
The material allegations of the bill are that at the time 
of and prior to the making of the bond Pottle was informed 
by the company that if he would give a bond, with good sure- 
ties, he should be at liberty to deposit the moneys of the 
company in bank with his other moneys, to his own credit 
and in his own name; that all of Pottle's remittances, after 
the execution of the bond, should be applied upon his old 
accounts, on which he was in arrears to the insurance com- 
pany, and that Pottle then understood from the company that 
if he would give such a bond, and apply his collections after- 
wards made to the payment of his former deficits, he would 
be allowed to go on as previously, and act as the agent 
of the company; that Pottle, at the time of making the 
bond, understood from the insurance company that by giving 
the same he would be allowed to continue in business as 
agent, and to deposit moneys collected for the comi&gt;any in 
bank with his own funds and in his own name, and would be 
required ont of such account to make remittances and to 
allow the same to be applied on account of his prior defalca- 
tions, and that he acted upon this understanding with the 
company in remitting and directing the application of the 
moneys afterwards collected by him, supposing that in so&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7jua1k948jn7jdtgv5w9vsonl5j8xxc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/567</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639906</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133165</id>
      <parentid>8171109</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:13:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (18)</comment>
      <origin>15133165</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1950" sha1="mrw0mo9h5suhe2vt6ujvewnh28rddjq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;560 FEDERAL REPOBTEE. 
Amount of daims as admitted hy the bankrupt 
against him, as per schedules filed, - $71,584.30 
Amount of claims or debts proven before the 
register, .... 43,984.12 
Debts increased by proof of larger amoants than 
set forth in bankrupt's schedule, as assumed 
in the argument on both sides, - - 8,281.39 
— which, added to the aggregate scheduled debts of $71,- 
584.30, $8,281.39— $79,865.69— being the total liability as 
principal debtor of the bankrupt, without regard to the time 
the debts were contracted. 
One-third in value, $79,866.69, - - $26,621.89 
The amount of the claims of the creditors, who 
have assented to the bankrupt's discharge, 
$24,667.60, which, deducted from $26,621.89, 
leaves a deficiency of $1,954,29, - - $26,621.89 
24,667.60 
$ 1,954,29 
Prior to June, 1874, 60 per cent, of proven claims was nec- 
essary for the discharge of the bankrupt without the assent 
of his creditors, and if the bankrupt had no assets, or not the 
required amount, he must have had a majority in number 
and in value of his creditors who had proven their claims. 
The law as it then stood was in these words: &quot;Section 
5112. In ail proceedings in bankruptcy commenced after the 
first day of January, 1869, no discharge shall be granted to a 
debtor whose assets shall not be equal to 50 per centum of 
the claims proved against his estate upon which he shall be 
liable as the principal debtor, unless the assent, in writing, 
of a majority in number and value of his creditors to whom 
he shall have become liable as principal debtor, and who shall 
have proved their claims, is filed in the case, at or before the 
time of the hearing of the application for discharge ; but this 
provision shall not apply to those debts from which the bank- 
rupt seeks a discharge which were contracted prior to the 
first day of January, 1869.&quot; 
Section 9 of the act of June 22, 1874, (18 U. S. Statutes,&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mrw0mo9h5suhe2vt6ujvewnh28rddjq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/583</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639922</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133166</id>
      <parentid>8171128</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:13:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, PORTBR → PORTER,  FEDEBA →  FEDERA, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133166</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2205" sha1="nqhlyf2j8o55s6u7xwgzicd9p918fbr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;576 FEDERA.Ii REPORTER. 
backing for the same and adapt it to enter the corners of the 
sash.&quot; 
Now, the question is does the construction of this device 
involve invention within the meaning of the patent law? 
That it may and does produce a useful resuit is undoubtedly 
true, l&gt;ut does its construction involve anything more than 
mechanical skill ? In the case of Reckendorfer v. Faber, 9 Otto, 
347, it was settled by the supreme court that the granting of 
letters patent and the decision of the commissioner on the ques- 
tion of invention, its utility and importance, is not conclu- 
sive; that his decision in the allowance and issue of a patent 
creates a prima facie right only, and upon ail the questions 
involved therein the validity of the patent is subject to an 
examination by the courts. 
The erasive and cleaning qualities of rubbcr bave been long 
known. Its use in cleaning mndow-glass is but a new use 
of an old and -well-known article. Long used for erasing 
pencil marks upon paper, there is nothing new or in the 
nature of discovery in the application or use of this article in 
cleaning window-glass. The idea of the patentee in putting 
rubber to such a use may be, and undoubtedly was, an excel- 
lent one ; but the question is, is his device in its construction, 
and with reference to its own use in connection with an old 
and well-known material, of such character as to entitle him, 
under his patent, to protection as an inventor ? 
As was said by the supreme court in Reckendorfer v. Faber, 
supra, &quot;this device is for the performance of a mechanical 
operation to produce mechanical results, and is a mechanical 
instrument as much as a brush, a pen, a stamp, a knife, a 
rule, or a screw. Whether it is styled a manufacture, a 
tool, or a machine, it is an instrument intended to produce a 
useful mechanical resuit, * * • Does it embody any 
new device or any combination of new devices producing 
a new resuit ?&quot; 
The combination consists only in the adjustment of the 
rubbing strip, and the supporting tubular cushion, in such 
manner as will bring the edge of the strip in contact with 
the glass. Now, &quot;the law requires more than a mere juxta-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nqhlyf2j8o55s6u7xwgzicd9p918fbr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/599</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639938</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133167</id>
      <parentid>8171145</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:13:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, ORTEE → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133167</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2344" sha1="c61khit2doltw82sojq9qc6ba2rxy1j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;592 FEDERAIT REPORTER. 
light of the Sansego was brought, and, as the two vessels 
approached, how it continued to bear, — in other words, how 
far to leeward of the course of the Sansego the Star of Scotia 
put herself, when, as she claims, she steadied, and how far 
to leeward she kept before the vessels were apparantly in 
immediate danger of collision, — is, I think.left in great uncer- 
tainty on the testimony of those on the Star of Scotia. And 
on this point, unfortunately, those on the Sansego can give but 
ïittle assistance, beoause they did not see the red light of the 
Star of Scotia, and saw nothing, after the green light disap- 
peared some distance ofif on their starboard bow, till the loom 
of the vessel was seen rapidly coming upon them on their 
starboard bow. The cause of the red light of the Star of 
Scotia not being seen will be hereafter considered. The sec- 
ond mate of the Star of Scotia, who was the ofticer respour 
sible for the navigation, testifies that, when the red light 
appeared, it bore about two and a-half to three points on bis 
port bow. He testified, also, several times, with great posi- 
tiveness, that it ranged with or a Ïittle abaft the port fore 
rigging, as he stood on the weather or port side of the wheel. 
This would be iess than half a point. It is ciear that if 
the latter statement be true the light was not brought well or 
safely on the port bow. Having brought the light on bis 
port bow, so far as in bis judgment made it safe to steady the 
wbeel, and having given the order to steady, it was then his 
duty to watch the light as the two vessels approached. If 
his caleulation was right, and he was safely to leeward, the 
red light, provided the other vessel kept her course, .would 
have constantly broadened on the bow; yet his testimony as 
to the movement of the light after it was first seen is very 
confused. He does not testify that it broadened at ail on his 
bow. On the contrary, he always puts it as ranging with the 
fore rigging, and he puts it there when it suddenly changed to 
green, and the other vessel was found under his bow. Yet, if 
it did not broaden, he should have noticed it, and should not 
have been taken by surprise, as he was, by its sudden change 
to green. 
The lookout testified that the ship was payhig off when he&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>c61khit2doltw82sojq9qc6ba2rxy1j</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/613</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639953</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133168</id>
      <parentid>8171161</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:13:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PEDEBAL →  FEDERAL, TEB. → TER., POKTER → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (10)</comment>
      <origin>15133168</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1658" sha1="9up78fj37i84qkjwxvod35ew4xu9jea" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;606 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
judicial notice of a question of jurisdietion not suggested by 
the record ; ) (2) that such a decree is properly entered against 
the stipulators and claimant, and (3) that the owners of the 
bark should not have further time to place themselves on the 
record. [Note. And if they. should do thia they could, in 
view of the delay, be put under such terms as would clear 
away ail questions in reference to the record, to-wit, file on 
oath a proper claim and give stipulation.] 
The question of jurisdietion, I leave. 
By the authority of the twenty-ninth and thirtieth rulea 
(supreme court, in admiralty) there can be very little ques- 
tion as to the second point. They must be interpreted to 
mean that the libellant is entitled to a decree against the 
owners, claimants and stipulators of and for the vessel; and 
the stipulators having agreed by their bond that they would 
answer for the default of the owners, they must be held now 
to their bond. 
The fact that the owners are not specially named in the 
bond ought not to avail the stipulators. The true owners were 
known to them only and they knew when they signed the bond 
and received the vessel, that the owners were not joined in 
the bond. I am aware that there are decisions and one quite 
recently, Johnson v. Township of Kimball, 39 Mich. , which 
say that a bond not signed by the principal is uncollectible 
against the sureties, but these are cases where it was intended 
and expected that the principal should join. In the present 
case the sureties gave the bond knowing that the principal 
would not sign, and it was so taken to oblige them.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9up78fj37i84qkjwxvod35ew4xu9jea</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/627</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639968</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133169</id>
      <parentid>8171176</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:13:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, PEDEEA → FEDERA, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133169</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2201" sha1="4tq8ll8xaouglis231fv3ng4plnphw2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;620 FEDERAL REPORTER, 
county court where letters of guardianship were granted to 
the mortgagor. 
At the tiine these trust deeda were executed the judiciary 
act of the United States declared that circuits courts of the 
United States should have jurisdiction where the matter in 
dispute, exclusive of costs, should exceed the sum of $500, 
provided the citizenship of the parties should be such as to 
■warrant it, and I regard it a satisfactory answer to the posi- 
tion that the provisions of the state statute, including those 
relating to remedies, became part of the contract betwoen the 
parties; that the statute of the United States which gave to 
complainant the right to proseoute his remedy in this court 
was also, with even higher potency, a part of the contract. 
Decisions of the supreme court bearing upon the question 
seem clearly to determine that even in a case where the right 
of action is originally derivable wholly from the state stat- 
ute, which also designates the court in which such remedy 
may be enforced, state legislation cannot limit a party's right 
to enforce his remedy in the court thus designated by the stat- 
ute, provided the citizenship of the parties is such as would 
otherwise authorize the prosecution of such remedy in the 
federal court. 
In the case of Railway Co. v. Whiton, 13 Wall. 285, there 
was a statute which declared a liability by a person or cor- 
poration to an action for damages when death ensues from a 
wrongful act, neglect or default of such person or corpora- 
tion, and which statute contained a proviso that such action 
should be brought, for a death caused within the state, in 
eome court established by the constitution and laws of the 
same. Here, although the right of action existed only in 
virtue of the statute, and only in cases where the death 
was caused within the state, the supreme court held that 
the proviso requiring action to be brought in the court of 
the state did not prevent a non-resident plaintiiï from 
removing the action to a federal court and maintaining it 
there. The court said : &quot;In ail cases where a general right 
is thus conferred it can be enforced in any federal court&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4tq8ll8xaouglis231fv3ng4plnphw2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/629</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639970</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133170</id>
      <parentid>8171178</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:15:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133170</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2180" sha1="9q61a7supulvwgw6qykll9s28p92i7z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;623 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
tion, by exempting the person or corporation in such state 
from suit. A citizen of another state, in this respect, pos- 
sesses a right not pertaining to one of the same state.&quot; 
Upon the argument, counsel earnestly pressed upon the 
consideration of the court a distinction between these cases 
and the case at bar, the distinction consisting in the fact that 
in the present case the subject-matter involvedis real estate; 
the point being urged that, as the state must be held to have 
controlling authority in regulating the transmission and alien- 
ation of real property situated within the state, the federal 
courts are limited in their right to exercise jurisdiction in 
proceedings which contemplate the ultimate transfer of title 
of such character of property. But I am unable to perceive 
solid foundation for such distinction. The question is one 
involving the righfc to pursue a remedy. The statute of the 
United States, at the time of the. execution of these trust 
deeds, declared that the circuit court of the United States 
should have cognizance concurrent with the courts of the 
several states of ail suits of a civil nature, at common law 
or in equity, with a proviso as to the citizenship of the par- 
ties. No state legislation could take away the right thua 
granted by congress under the constitution of the United 
States. And if, in the case where a right of action, whether 
it pertain to persons or property, exists only in virtue of , and 
is solely derivable from, a statute of a state, that statute also 
declaring that the remedy to enforce such right shall be 
brought in a court of the state, — if, I say, in such a case the 
remedy may be enforced in a court of the United States, as 
bas been distinctly held, I am unable to perceive why, in a 
case like that in hand, the remedy may not also be pursued 
in the federal court, notwithstanding the state statute. That 
statute, in my opinion, can only be construed as limiting the 
right of the party to pursue his remedy in a particular form, 
■where such remedy is sought to be enforced in the courts of 
the state. 
The pleas will be overruled.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9q61a7supulvwgw6qykll9s28p92i7z</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/633</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639974</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133172</id>
      <parentid>8171183</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PEDEBAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133172</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2174" sha1="67fwlnsw7pcusgsvfl6xr449ynq2mv2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;■626 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
from a grave, vault, or other receptacle or burial place, the 
body or remains of a deceased person, ■without a permit 
therefor, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and be pun- 
ished by fine not less than $50 nor more than |500, or by 
imprisonment in the county jail for not less than thirty 
•days nor more than six months, or by both such fine and 
imprisonment. Nor shall it be lawful to receive such body, 
bones, or remains, on any vehicle, car, barge, boat, ship, 
Bteamship, steamboat, or vessel, for transportation in or 
from this state, unless the permit to transport the same is 
first received and is retained in evidence by the owner, driver, 
agent, superintendent, or master of the vehicle, car, or 
vessel. 
&quot;Sec, 4. Any person or persons who shall move or trans- 
port, or cause to be moved or transported, on or through the 
streets or highways of any oity or town, or city and county, of 
this state, the body or remains of a deceased person which 
shall have been disinterred or exhumed, without a permit as 
described in section 2 of this act, shall be guilty of a misde- 
meanor, and be punishable as provided in section 3 of this 
act. 
&quot;Sec. 6. Nothing in this act contained shall be taken to 
apply to the removal of the remains of deceased persons from 
one place of interment to another cemetery or place of inter- 
ment within the same county ; provided, that no permit shall 
l&gt;e issued for the disinterment or removal of any body, unless 
such body bas been buried for two years.&quot; Stat. 1877-8, 
1050. 
The petitioner, Wong Yung Quy, is, and Wong Wai Toon 
uras, in his life-time, a subject of the emperor of China, of the 
Mongolian race, residing in the United States. Wong Wai 
Toon died in January, 1876, and was buried in Laurel Hill 
Cemetery, a public cemetery of the city and county of San 
Francisco. In October, 1879, petitioner, a relative of the 
deceased, having complied with ail the provisions of said act, 
«xcept the payment of $10 required by said act to be paid 
for an exhumation and removal permit, demanded from the 
proper authorities permission to remove the remains of said&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>67fwlnsw7pcusgsvfl6xr449ynq2mv2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/637</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>639978</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133173</id>
      <parentid>14560918</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133173</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2281" sha1="fudn4nz4hl7kzio4g0opid4i62dxkmm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;630 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
labor of a country; to fit thein for exportation; or it may be 
for domestic use. They act uporl the subjeet belore it be- 
comes an article of foreign commerce, or of commerce among 
the states, and prepare it for that purpose. They form a 
portion of that immense mass of legislation which embraces 
everything within the territory of a state not surrendered to 
a general government, all of which can be most advauta- 
geously exercised by the states themselves. Inspection laws, 
quarantine laws, health laws of every description, as well as 
laws for regulating the internai commerce of a state, and 
those which respect turnpike roads, ferries, etc., are compo- 
nent parts of this mass.&quot; 
If, then, as claimed, the transportation of the remaius of 
deceased persons to China is a part of foreign commerce, 
these supervising and inspection laws &quot;act upon the subjeet 
before it becomes an article of foreign commerce,&quot; and while 
the remains are being &quot;prepared for that purpose.&quot; They 
simply provide that the preparations of the remains for for- 
eign transportation, while still within the state and under its 
jurisdiction, shall be made in auch a manner as not to be 
detrimental to the public health, 
The principles relating to sanitary laws recognized in City 
of New York v. MUn, 11 Pet. 102; Thorpe v. B. d B. B. 
Co. 27 Vt. 140; The Passer^ger Cases, 7 How. 283; Railroad 
Ce. V. Huson, 95 U. S. 471, and numerous other cases, are 
broad enough to cover the provisions in question. In these 
respects this case differa materially from the Queue Case, 
reported in 6 Sawyer, 553, and is more like the case arising 
under the cubic air statute, which we held to be constiu- 
tional. It being within the constitutional power to regulate 
the disinterment and removal of the dead, and to provido 
officers to scrutinize and supervise the operation in order to 
secure a conformity to the laws, we see no reason why a fee 
cannot be charged to and collected from those who desire to 
exercise the privilege, to defray the expanses of the inspec- 
tion and siipervision. The fee is charged under the law, not 
for the transportation or for the privilege of carrying the 
remains out of the country, but to pay the expenses of super-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fudn4nz4hl7kzio4g0opid4i62dxkmm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/655</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640258</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133174</id>
      <parentid>8171200</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: whieh → which, coUateral → collateral,  EBPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, ORTEE → ORTER, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133174</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2286" sha1="m2io3qzpko8xwvjvlkm1lfim5xhcgja" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;C48 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
based on these transactions. The opposing crediter, however, 
haa not offered evidence in this proceeding of the alleged false 
entries in the books. He has oiïered the judgment roll in 
said suit for fraud, which involves, as he claims, a conolusive 
determination of this fact of false entries. He has also offered 
secondary evidence of what was proved upon the trial in said 
action. To ail this evidence the bankrupts have objected. 
, Christie first recovered a judgment after a trial on the 
merits, establishing the fraud, and on the trial evidence of 
the false entries in the books was given as part of the plain- 
tifs proofs, although the eomplaint did not allege the false 
entries in the books, but false accounts rendered and other 
fraudulent practices. This judgment was, however, set aside 
and a new trial was ordered, and when the cause came on 
for trial again the bankrupts suffered default, and judgment 
was taken against them oh their default. The first judgment 
having been set aside concludes nobody. It is olear, also, as 
matter of law, that, even if the eomplaint had alleged the false 
entries in the books, the judgment recovered by default would 
not be evidence of the truth of the allegations in the eom- 
plaint in another proceeding, on another cause of action, as 
this proceeding for a discharge must be considered. &quot;A judg- 
ment by default only admits for, the purpose of the action the 
legality of the demand or claim in suit ; it does not make the 
allegations of the declaration or eomplaint evidence in an 
action upon a different claim.&quot; Cromwell v. County ofSac, 94 
U. S. 356. 
Still less is the judgment conclusive evidence collaterally of 
facts, of which evidence was offered in the course of the trial, 
in support of the allegations of the declaration or eomplaint. 
The secondary evidence of the entries in the books, as put in 
proof on the trial, was also clearly incompetent, and cannot 
be considered as any proof of the specification of false en- 
tries in the bankrupt's books, or of bis keeping improper 
books. The papers make it highly probable that these speci- 
fications, or one of them, could be proved, but the opposing 
creditors bave chosen to rely on modes of proof which are&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>m2io3qzpko8xwvjvlkm1lfim5xhcgja</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/665</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640268</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133175</id>
      <parentid>8171212</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PEDEEA → FEDERA,  lowa. →  Iowa.,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (13)</comment>
      <origin>15133175</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1907" sha1="8rvz9x6whn9y5pzhh0j50ztprae7ihr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;658 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
Much less can the parties themselves do this without the 
order of the court. 
We sent out an order in chancery to a master of this court, 
and it is now claiîned that, in response to this order, a report 
may be brought in by a referee at law in relation to a com- 
mon-law action, upon which we may render judgment at law. 
Not 80. The proceedingB of the master, in so far as he acted 
as referee, were unauthorized ; as much so as if they had 
been had before any other person. His report will be con- 
&quot;fiidered only so far as it presents matter for the consideration 
of a chancellor, and is responsive to the order of appoint- 
ment. Being so considered, it shows clearly that petitioner 
ahould be permitted to prosecute his claim by suit at law 
against the railroad eompany, and such permission is granted. 
The parties being before the court, the issues may be joined 
■without delay, and the cause will be submitted to a jury at 
the present term, unless a jury be waived. 
Love, D. J., coneurs. 
Wallaoe V. Geeman-Amebioan Insueanob Company. 
[Circuit Court, D. Iowa. ]VIay, 1880.) 
Ihstjkancb, Pire — Conditions m Poucy Oonstkubd — PLBADma. 
Demurrer to amended replication. 
McCeaby, g. J., (orally.) This is an action upon a policy of 
insurance issued by the defendant, to insure the plaintiff 
against loss by fire upon a certain building, therein desoribed. 
The policy oontains numerous conditions, among which is 
•one (numbered 9) from which I quote, as foUows : &quot;In case 
differences shall arise touching any loss or damage, after proof 
thereof has been received in due form, the matter shall, at the 
written request of either party, be submitted to impartial 
arbitrators, whose award in writing shall be binding on the 
parties as to amount of such loss or damage, but shall not 
decide the liability of the eompany under this policy.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8rvz9x6whn9y5pzhh0j50ztprae7ihr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/669</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640272</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133176</id>
      <parentid>8171216</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tho  →  the ,  FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133176</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2242" sha1="5j0darqhsbal8a5j9kysxvojhd3zapp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;662 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
MoCeary, C. J., (orally.) This ia a bill in equity filed by 
complainant, as assignee of the firm of Thornburg &amp; Van 
Leuven, bankrupts, to set aside the conveyance of a certain 
tract of land, and cancel a contract, on the ground of fraud. 
The parties who are represented by the plaintiff, as assignee, 
bought from the respondents an 80-acre tract of land with- 
out seeing it, and upon the faith of certain representations 
made by respondents. It is alleged that these representa- 
tions were false and fraudaient, and the prayer is for a decree 
to set aside the contract and restore the parties to their orig- 
inal rights. 
Upon the question of fact involved in the case, as to whether 
the representations made by respondents concerning thi qual- 
ity and character of the land were intentionally lalse and 
fraudaient, there is a serious conflict in the testimony, and 
upon some of the most material points it would seem to be 
almost evenly balanced. 
It is, however, in my judgment, not necessary to decide 
that question, since the case may weU be disposed of upon a 
question of law 'which arises upon the record. The claim of 
the plaintiff here is that the contract should be rescinded, 
and set aside, on account of fraud. By the terms of the con- 
tract the said bankrupts were to transfer to respondents a 
certain stock of hardware, and respondents were to convey to 
the bankrupts an 80-aere tract of land in Tama county, 
lowa. The contract was executed. The transfer of the stock 
of hardware was made. A deed to the real estate was exe- 
cuted, acknowledged and delivered. 
It is a well-settled rule of law that where the right to 
rescind a contract springs from diseovered fraud, the party 
defrauded must rescind as soon as circumstances permit ; or, 
in other words, at once, on discovery of the fraud. He is 
not bound to rescind, and any delay, especially if it be injuri- 
ous to the other party, amounts to a waiver of his right. 
&quot;The mere lapse of time,&quot; says Mr. Parsons, &quot;if it be con- 
siderable, goes far to establish a waiver of this right, and if 
it be connected with an obvious ability on the part of the 
defrauded person to discover the fraud at a much earlier&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5j0darqhsbal8a5j9kysxvojhd3zapp</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/677</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640280</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133178</id>
      <parentid>8171225</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: fuUy → fully (3),  wbo →  who,  FBD →  FED, EDEBAL  → EDERAL ,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, ORTEE → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133178</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2327" sha1="rillwydkytaen51ntfowftu1vzevs38" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;670 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
vessel, being a bark named Archer, belonging în whole or in 
part to a citizen orcitizens of the United States, whose name 
or names are to the jurors aforesaid unknown, the said bark 
then and there being alioat upon the high seas aforesaid, and 
within the jurisdiction of this court — with force and arms in 
and upon one Anton Klourtouski, in the peace of God and of 
the said United States, then and there being, piratically, 
feloniously, wilfully, maliciously, and of his malice afore- 
thought, did make an assault and stab, the said Daniel Leon- 
ard, with a certain sheath knife, having a blade five and 
one-half inches long, and one and one-eighth inches in width, 
which said sheath knife he, the said Daniel Leonard, in his 
right hand then and there had and held, him, the said Anton 
Klourtouski, in and upon the right side of the abdomen of him, 
the said Anton Klourtouski, a little above the groin of him, the 
said Anton Klourtouski, piratically, feloniously, wilfully, ma- 
liciously, and of his malice aforethought, did strike, stab and 
and wound, then and there giving him, the said Anton Klour- 
touski, with the sheath knife aforesaid, in and upon the right 
side of the abdomen of him, the said Anton Klourtouski, a 
little above the groin of him, the said Anton Klourtouski, one 
grievous and mortal wound, he, the said Anton Klourtouski, 
from * * » until * * » did languish, and, languish- 
ing, did live, and on the said * * * in and on board the 
Baid bark Archer, at sea and upon the high seas aforesaid, 
without the said United States, of the said grievous and mortal 
wound died; and so the jurors aforesaid, upon their oath 
aforesaid, do say that the said Daniel Leonard, him, the said 
Anton Klourtouski, in manner, and form and by the means 
aforesaid, piratically, feloniously, wilfully, maliciously, and of 
his malice aforethought, did kill, slay and murder, against 
the peace of the United States, and their dignity, and against 
the form of the statute of the said United States in such case 
made and provided.&quot; 
On being tried on this indictment the verdict of the jury 
was that the defendant was guilty of manslaughter. 
The defendant now moves in arrest of judgment, on the 
ground — (1) That the defendant was not indicted for man-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rillwydkytaen51ntfowftu1vzevs38</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/679</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640282</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133179</id>
      <parentid>8171227</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDBB →  FEDER,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133179</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2263" sha1="itrthnh3pllfhuahrmi7rm2dfuskeh8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;672 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
bankrupt to respondent, and subsequently sold by the latter. 
An answer was filed denying the fraud, and the case was re- 
ferred to an examiner to take testimony. 
The testimony on behalf of eomplainants was to the effect 
that in Aiigust, 1875, Eamsey became insolvent; that bis 
Personal property was sold at that time at sberiff 's sale, 
under an execution against him, and that the respondent 
attended the sale; that on September 1, 1875, Eamsey con- 
veyed to respondent for the nominal consideration of $1,500 
a lot of ground and building worth |4:,000 above a ground 
rent which was upon it; that on October 6, 1875, a petition 
in bankruptcy was filed against Eamsey, under which he was 
adjudicated a bankrupt ; that afterwards, upon a demand 
being made by the assignee for a reconveyance of the real 
estate, respondent had said. that Eamsey had corne to him 
and wanted him to take a deed for the property, because if 
he did not take it his (Eamsey's) creditors would get it, and 
that he (Eamsey) preferred that respondent should bave it ; 
that respondent had also admitted that he paid no consid- 
eration for the property. 
The testimony on behalf of respondent was to the effect 
that about September, 1875, Eamsey requested Solomon A. 
Kneedler, the father of respondent, to purchase the property, 
and that the latter agreed to purchase it for $1,500; that 
Solomon A. Kneedler then applied to respondent to allow 
title to be taken in the latter's name, and respondent con- 
Benting, a deed was executed to him, but that he paid no 
consideration and took the title merely in trust for his father; 
that Solomon A. Kneedler then employed a conveyancer \ j 
make searches, when it was discovered that thsre were arrear- 
ages of ground rent, taxes, etc., against the property amount- 
ing to more than $1,500.; that Eamsey then agreed that 
Solomon A. Kneedler should bave the property for the arrear- 
ages ; that subsequently and more than a year before the 
filing of this bill, respondent, at Solomon A. Kneedler's re- 
quest, and to enable the latter torebuild, conveyed the prop- 
erty, without consideration, to one Newcomer, in five lots, 
and recei\ed from Kewtomer five mortgages, tue on cach&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>itrthnh3pllfhuahrmi7rm2dfuskeh8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/685</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640288</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133180</id>
      <parentid>14644109</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tho  →  the ,  PEDEBAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15133180</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2600" sha1="7947ub2acr3t8qj9fllb2nc9sbx3d7g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;678 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
Samb — Statb of THE ART. — In such case the state of the art when the 
invention was made is always to be considered. 
Same — Peofits incapable of Mbasueement. — Alfhotigh an infringer 
may be answerable in damages, he is not to be Iield liable for profits, 
unless there is some satisfactory evidence from which the value of the 
advantage derived from the use of the invention can be measured. 
Same — Combinatioiî op Locomotivb with Sv^ing-Teuck.— The use of a 
combination of a swing- truck with a locomotive having flanges on all 
its driving-wheels, not shown to have any advantage over the use of a 
locomotive with plain forvvard driving-wheels and a rigid truck. 
Damages — Standard of — Royalties. — Where a patentee had afixed roy- 
alty for the use of his patent, Tidd, that this was a proper standard by 
which to measure his damages from an infringement. 
Same — Inteeest on Royalties. — In such case, in estimating the dam- 
ages, interest should be added to the royalties from the time of infringe- 
ment to the date of the decree. 
Exceptions to the report of a master appointed to state an 
account of the profits realized by defendants by reason qf an 
infringement of complainants' patent, and also to aasess the 
damages caused by such infringement. 
The master (Kobert N. Willson, Esq.) reported that com- 
plainants' patent was for a combination of a swiùg-truck 
with a locomotive; that the evidence showed that prier to 
using such invention defendants had used locomotives having 
a rigid truck and flanged driving-wheels ; that the advantages 
derived from the use of complainants' invention could have 
been obtained by the use of a locomotive having a rigid truck 
and having no flanges on its forward driving-wheels, and that 
this latter form of locomotive was then in common and un- 
restricted use. He also reported that in estimating profits 
the comparison of advantages should be made between com- 
plainants' invention and an engine having a rigid truck and 
forward driving-wheels without flanges; that complainants 
had scarcely attempted to meet such a comparison, but relied, 
apparently, upon a comparison with a locomotive having all its 
driving-wheels flanged, and that upon the evidence he was 
unable to find that defendants had realized any profits. He 
also i-eported that complainants had a fixed royalty of $100 
per engine for the use of their invention, and adopting this as 
a measure of damages, and adding interest, he assessed the 
damages at $89,644. Both parties filed exceptions.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7947ub2acr3t8qj9fllb2nc9sbx3d7g</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/689</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640292</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133181</id>
      <parentid>14560930</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED, EDEBAL  → EDERAL ,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133181</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2240" sha1="no04eky0cadim63vvdonmd3eym5ibnk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;682 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
from those existing when plain forward drivers are used. In 
regard to the alleged additional safety attendant uponthe use 
of the swing tmcks, there is the same difficulty. I am not 
convinced that there is any increased safety in running loco- 
motives with it. But if there is, there is no mater by which 
the value of that advantage, as a profit, can be measured, 
and during the argument the complainants disavowed any 
claim for profits on that account. 
The case, therefore, is one for damages only. The evi- 
dence shows to my satisfaction that the complainants had a 
fixed royalty of $100 for each locomotive to which the 
invention was applied. The master adopted that as a 
proper standard for estimating the damages. In this I think 
he was justified by the case of Birdsall v. CooUdge, S Otto, 
64. That, it is true, was an action at law. But there is no 
conceivable reason why the damages sustained by a patentee 
from the infringement of his patent are not the same whether 
he proceeds at law or in equity. Applying this standard, and 
adding interest to the royalties, the master has reported the 
damages to be $89,644, the invention having been used 
by the defendants in 614 engines. That sum will certainly 
cover all the damages the complainants have sustained, and 
ail possible profits the defendants have made, if they made 
any. 
A doubt arose in my mind at first whether interest should 
bave been addëd by the master to the aggregate of the royal- 
ties, but further reflection has removed the doubt. As I 
bave noticed, the royalties were allowed as the measure of 
damages. It is doubtless the general rule that interest prior 
to the final decree is not to be allowed upon profits or dam- 
ages, because, until the decree, they are unliquidated. Mowry 
V. Whitney, 14 Wall. 653. But the rule is not without excep- 
tions. We said in that case: &quot;We will not say that, in no 
possible case, can interest be allowed.&quot; The present seems 
to be one not within the reason of the rule, and therefore 
proper for an exception. The damages cannot be said to 
have been unliquidated from the first. The amount of the 
royalty was fixed when the defendants began to use the inven-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>no04eky0cadim63vvdonmd3eym5ibnk</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/691</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640294</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133182</id>
      <parentid>8171241</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED,  FEDBB →  FEDER,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133182</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2245" sha1="fw2lpxq3sqwn2s9otg6j7n2u7ixor14" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;684 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
overlapping was underneath the foxing, almost as a matter of 
course, but the invention would be the same if the foxing did 
not exist. 
The patentee says, in his specifications : &quot;My invention 
relates to that class of cloth and rubber gaiters vrhich are 
provided with flaps and buckles, and it consists in a peculiar 
construction of certain double water-proofed jointed flaps, so 
arranged that the flap tongue passing over the inatep will 
dra-w equally upon the aides of the quarter vrhen buckled to 
the foot, and render the gaiter water-proof at ail points adja- 
cent to the flap.&quot; The description which is contained in the 
patent consists mainly of a reference to the drawinga. 
The claim is as follows: &quot;As a new article of manufac- 
ture, a cloth and rubber gaiter overshoe, having a double 
water-proof flap, composed of extensions of the vamp and 
qUarter, folded on each side of the instep, and provided with 
a buckle and flap tongue, which are arranged to draw equally 
on each side of the quarter across the instep, substantially as 
described.&quot; 
Before the date of this invention, an Engliah patent, dated 
January 23, 1856, had been granted to Stephen Norris for an 
improvement in leather shoes. His improvement consisted 
in the insertion of a gore or gusset between the vamp and 
quarter, which folded upon itself inside the shoe, and ex- 
cluded water to a certain extent. The shoe was not perfectly 
water-proof, because the truncated apex of the gore at the 
point of union of vamp quarter and gore did not form a 
folded or an overlapping joint with vamp or quarter. The 
union of the three pieces of leather was made by sewing, and 
there was no turning of the water by a fold of the leather 
80 as to exclude the admission of moisture to the foot. The 
great effort upon the part of the defendant was to limit the 
WilHams patent, in view of the Norris invention, to the ex- 
act eut of vàijip and quarter, and of their extension into a 
flap tongue, which is shown in the drawings. The defendant 
construes the patent to be for an overshoe having the pecu- 
liarly constructed water-proof jointed flaps, shown in the 
drawings, composed of extensions of both vamp and quarter,&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fw2lpxq3sqwn2s9otg6j7n2u7ixor14</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/695</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640298</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133183</id>
      <parentid>8171245</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: whieh → which, OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (16)</comment>
      <origin>15133183</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1806" sha1="ee997pv4bykqv7jz3vx0r92zpfzpgmm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;688 FEDERAL RErORTER. 
smoothly upon the last by reason of the flap pieces, and it 
■was also desirable to line the flaps or ear pieces with a lighter 
material than that used for the shoe proper, so that they 
could be folded smoothly around the ankle. Novelty and 
patentability are not denied. I do not understand that any 
substantial defence is attempted to be made to the charge of 
infringement of the first claim. 
Let there be a decree for an injunction and an accounting. 
The Peok, Stow &amp; Wilcox Co. v. Linbsat, Steeeitt &amp; Co. 
{Circuit Court, W. D. Pennaylvania. , 18B0. 
Pa-S^NT— PhIVIKS to IkTBEFBKENCE— IMPIIOVBMEKT m COFFEB &amp; SpICB 
MixjiS. 
In Equity. 
AoHEsoN, D. J. This is a motion for an injunction on 
re-issued letters patent No. 8,866, dated August 19, 1879, 
granted to the oomplainant, assignee of Amoa Shepard, for 
an improvement in coffee and spice mills, 
The defendants are hardware merchants at Pittsburgh, 
Pennsylvania, and sell coffee mills manufactured by Landers, 
Frary &amp; Clark, which mills, it is alleged, infringe the first 
claim of said patent. 
It clearly appears, both from the af&amp;davits in the case and by 
an inspection of the Landers, Frary &amp; Clark mill, that it em- 
bodies the first claim of the said re-issued patent. This claim 
is in these words : &quot;In a box mill a metal hopper and flange, 
said flange projecting laterally at or near the top of the hop- 
per, so as to form the cover of and means of attachment to 
the wooden box, in combina'tion with a hinged hopper cover 
and grinding mechanism, substautially as and for the purpose 
set forth.&quot; 
The invention relates particularly to that style of box mills 
whioh bave the bulk of the hopper located below the box top. 
The metalliç hopper is made with a wide £ange projecting&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ee997pv4bykqv7jz3vx0r92zpfzpgmm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/703</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640307</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133184</id>
      <parentid>8171255</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133184</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2251" sha1="27oq29d7ocqapkciszihp8kjnv92jb5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;696 rEDEEAL REPOEXEB. 
nevr, and, as a resuit, we have a superior mill, cliaracterized 
by simplicity of construction and the facility with which its 
several parts may be set up; and, when finished, compact, 
convenient and durable. 
The merits of the invention were quickly perceived by the 
public, The box mills in the general market prior to the 
introduction of the Strobridge mill had the hopper above the 
top of the box. Immediately upon the appearance of the com- 
plainant's mill it met with great popular favor and obtained 
a ready sale. It was accepted and adopted by the trade and 
went into general use. The Charles Parker Company, of Mer- 
iden, Connecticut, and the Peck, Stow &amp; Wilcox Company, of 
Southington, Connecticut, soon took lioenses from the com- 
plainant, and these companies — both large manufacturera of 
coffee-mills — respectively make under the patent the mills 
known in this case as &quot;Exhibit Charles Parker Mill&quot; and 
&quot;Exhibit Peck, Stow &amp; Wilcox.&quot;- 
Nelson H. Camp, agent for the Charles Parker Company, 
teetifles: &quot;Shortly after we commenced selling these mills 
[Charles Parker millj in the market we received notice that 
we were infringing the said Strobridge patent, and, upon inves- 
tigation, concluded it was so, and took out a license to manu- 
facture under the patent which they granted us under a roy- 
aity ; and from that day to the present we have manufactured 
them very largely. The sale of these mills has been very 
large as compared with ail other mills we manufacture.&quot; 
Webster L. Walkley testifies: &quot;I have sold some mills, 
similarto 'Exhibit Strobridge,' manufactured by the Charles 
Parker Co., and more manufactured by the Peck, Stow &amp; 
Wilcox Co. * * • From the first introduction of these 
mills they met with unparalleled success, and the trade who 
had been purchasing the raised hopper mills, about the coi'- 
responding size and price, to a very large degree substituted 
in their place, these sunken hopper mills. So that I should 
say that the sale of the ordinary raised hopper mill, as sold 
previous to the introduction of these mills, must have fallen 
oflF, in the aggregate, about one-half.&quot; 
The letters patent themselvesj?nma/ade establish that the&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>27oq29d7ocqapkciszihp8kjnv92jb5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/705</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640309</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133185</id>
      <parentid>14560932</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tho  →  the , TEB. → TER., removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133185</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2308" sha1="ryxjvgds9vz2t67s0ckpn0n5b141c06" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;698 FEDERAL BBFORTER. 
upward and become mixed and go to the flame. In some of 
them the mixture burnt upon the diaphragm ; in others there 
■were caps over the upper ends of the tubes larger than the 
tubes, and forming a chamber above the diaphragm, in the 
sides of which were holes for the mixture to pass out through, 
and it was burned in jets as it escaped through the holes. 
The chamber was generally larger than the tube below, and 
made separate from it, and both were put together so as to 
hpld the diaphragm in place. In all these the caps were held 
by the sides of the chamber through which the mixture must 
pass, and which could not be perforated to give an unbroken 
sheet of the mixture to the flame without weakening them 
too much for such support. Kelly appears to have invented 
a humer head consisting of two ciroular horizontal plates, one 
above the other, with flanges approaching each other afound 
the edges, leaving a oontinuous aperture, and having a ver- 
tical diaphragm extending around between them a short 
distance inside of the flanges, forming an annular chamber 
between the diaphragm and flanges, all held together by a 
boit and nnt in the center of the plates, with an aperture 
leading from the feeding tube below through the lower plate, 
each side of a bar left across for the boit, so as to pass the 
air and gas upward through the tube and lower plate into the 
space between the plates, theuce laterally in all directions 
through the diaphragm into the chamber outside of it, and 
thence in an unbroken sheet horizontally through the aper- 
ture between the flanges to the flame, thus supplying a con- 
tinuons flame all around the edge of the upper plate and 
effecting thorough combustion of the gas. 
In the specifications of his patent he described the whole of 
this arrangement; set forth the nature of his invention as 
consisting in forming a chamber in the burner between the 
perforated diaphragm and the external opening, and in the 
employment of a vertical diaphragm in combination with an 
annular opening around the same; and the claim was the 
combination of a vertically arranged diaphragm with the 
external annular opening, as therein shown. The specifica- 
tions of the re-issue are not materially different from those of&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ryxjvgds9vz2t67s0ckpn0n5b141c06</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/733</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640338</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133186</id>
      <parentid>8171287</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: AIi  → AL ,  EEPO →  REPO, POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133186</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2271" sha1="i2w6pezql48ntk68fxfm6nvd1hc01fr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;726 FEDBEAL REPORTER. 
upon the sea, and to be executed thereon, (making locality 
the test,) is entirely inadmissible, and that the true criterion 
is the nature and subject-matter of the contract, as wLether 
it was a maritime contract, having reference to maritime ser- 
vice or maritime transactions.&quot; 
In the case of The A. R. Dunlap, 1 Low. 361, (1869,) Judge 
Lowell followed, with hesitation, the cases of The Amstel, The 
Joseph Cunard, and The S. G. Owens, remarking, however, that 
the reason given that the service was not maritime did not 
appear to be decisive, because the contracts of other mate- 
rial men are no more so, and that the reason given that the 
cargo is a collateral matter, and no part of the necessary 
equipment of the ship, was also unsatisfactory, because a ship 
cannot be used to advantage without a cargo. He adhered to 
the rule, however, in respect to stevedores, while doubtingits 
correctness, as a point settled by authority. 
In the case of the Bark Ilex, 2 Woods, 229, (1876,) Mr. 
Justice Bradley denied the lien of a stevedore as settled 
by authority, citing Cox v. Murray and The S. G. Owens^ 
Referring, doubtless, to the case of The A. R. Dunlap, he says 
that Judge Lowell thinks the reasons given in Cox v. Murray 
are not satisfactory ; and referring to Justice Grier's views in 
The S. G. Owens, he says they are so clear and forcible' &quot;that 
he is not certain that he should corne to a different conclusion 
if the question were a new one.&quot; But in the case of The 
Geœge T. Kemp, 2 Low. 482, (1876,) Judge Lowell reconsid- 
ered his decision in The A. R. Dunlap, and came to the con- 
clusion that the course of reasoning in the early cases, which 
he had followed before, had been declared unsound by the 
highest authority, so that &quot;an adherence to the mere resuit 
of those cases is not defensible on the ground of stare decisis, 
because it is standing by the- letter at the expense of the 
principle.&quot; Upon a careful review of the authorities he up- 
held the stevedore's claim for a lien on the vessel, enforceable 
in admiralty, as being for a maritime service. 
The case of The Ilex is not cited by him. As it was de- 
cided but a few months earlier it had not probably then been. 
published.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>i2w6pezql48ntk68fxfm6nvd1hc01fr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/739</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640344</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133187</id>
      <parentid>8171294</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PEDEBAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, ORTK → ORTE, ORTEB → ORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133187</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="912" sha1="ihk9v5qwo8cmrtbmec0pwhkmq7718qy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;733 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
under the first exception, I shall assume that this is the only 
point wiiich the claimant desires to make. 
XJpon this question I cannot distinguiah the case from that 
of The Onore, 6 Ben. 564, in which it was held that the serv- 
ices of a cooper, in putting the cargo in order for delivery, 
performed partly on the ship and partly on the wharf, were 
maritime services. The reasons for this conclusion are given 
at length in the case of The Windermere, ante, 722. 
As Judge Benedict says, in The Onore: &quot;Many maritime 
contraets are performed on land and by persons having no 
immediate connection with the sea. The services in ques- 
tion are maritime, because they are a necessary part of the 
maritime service which the ship renders to the cargo, and 
without which the object of the voyage would not be aocom- 
Dlished.&quot; 
Exceptions overruled, with leave to answer.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ihk9v5qwo8cmrtbmec0pwhkmq7718qy</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/747</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640352</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133188</id>
      <parentid>8171303</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (16)</comment>
      <origin>15133188</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1786" sha1="1v1kgv3iydytb443t0kt3lzmt5azkwo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Y40 TEDERili REPORTER. 
constitutional conventions and legislative bodies are liable to 
be betrayed by their anxiety and efforts to accomplish, by 
indirection and circumlocution, an unconstitutional purpose 
which they cannot efïect by direct means. 
The act under which the several prisoners are held being 
void, for the reasons stated, they are in custody in violation 
of the constitution and a treaty of the United States, and are 
entitled to be discharged ; and it is so ordered. 
MuERAT V. HoLDEN and others. 
{Circuit Court, W. D. Missouri. June, 1880.) 
Removal — Time or FiLEsa Petition. — Under the act of 1875 a petition 
for removal must be filed before or at the term at which the cause might 
flrst by law be tried, altUotigh the pleadings have not been settled at 
that time. 
Motion to Eemand. 
This suit was originally brougbt to the September term, 
1878, of the circuit court of Jackson county, Missouri, and 
it could have been tried at that term if the issues had been 
joined and the parties had been ready. At that term the 
defendants interposed a demurrer to the petition, which was 
argued and submitted, and taken under advisement by the 
court. The record does not show what action was taken by 
the court upon the demurrer, but eounsel agree that it was 
held under consideration until the subsequent Maich term, 
1879, when it was overruled. Whereupon, at the said March 
term, the defendants filed their petition for removal on the 
ground that the case is one arising under the constitution 
and laws of the United States. 
The plaintiff moves to remand, upon the ground that the 
petition for removal was not filed in the state court within 
the time required by the statuts, and upon another ground 
which need not be considered.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1v1kgv3iydytb443t0kt3lzmt5azkwo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/757</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640363</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133189</id>
      <parentid>8171314</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, ORTEE → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133189</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2315" sha1="scmbsy00jhr1cpxy2ut9pn0vukzjaj7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;750 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
The U. s, Y. Jantuiry et al. 7 Cranch, 572. This rule has been 
applied by the supreme court of Kansas. Shellaharger v, 
Binns, 18 Kan. 345. &lt;&gt; 
3. It is insisted by counsel for defendants that this rule is 
only applicable to a case where there are several separate 
and distinct debts, and that it is, therefore, not a proper 
guide for the determination of the present case, which is one 
of a continuons or running account. In such a case it is 
insisted that the payments must be applied to the extinguish- 
ment of the first or oldest items of the account. The general 
rule, that payments made on an open running account are 
presumably to be applied to the extinguishment of the items 
thereof in the order of their dates, is well settied. Postmaster 
General v. Farlen, 4 Mason, 333; The U. S. v. Wardwell, 5 
Mason, 82; The U. S. v. Kirkpatrick, 9 Wheat. 738; Jones 
V. The U. S. 7 How. 681. But a different rule must prevail, 
under the authority of Field et al. v. Holland et al., in a case 
where the earlier items of the account are secured, and the 
later items unsecured. Besides, the question of the applica- 
tion of the payments, in such a case, rests largely in the dis- 
cretion of the chancelier, and in this case the proof shows, 
as already suggested, that the parties intended to preserve 
the security of the plaintiffs' mortgage to the extent of $5,000 
of the indebtedness, and it is clearly equitable to apply the 
payments so as to carry out that intention. It may be added 
that we have here two separate contracts : first, the mortgage 
aôd the indebtedness secured thereby; and, secondly, the 
open account not connected with, or secured by, the mortgage. 
Viewed in this light, we may, for the purpose of applying the 
payments, separate the secured from the unsecured portion 
of the account, and treat them as separate debts. 
4. The fact that plaintiffs proved their entire debt as 
against the estate of KuUak, and received two dividends 
thereon from the assets of said estate, does not extinguish 
their rights under the mortgage, The sum coUected from the 
estate upon that portion of the debt which is secured by the 
mortgage must, however, be credited thereon. It appears 
from the stipulation of the parties that the plaintiffs have&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>scmbsy00jhr1cpxy2ut9pn0vukzjaj7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/759</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640365</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133190</id>
      <parentid>14644119</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PBD →  FED,  FEDEBA →  FEDERA,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133190</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2326" sha1="5oj8wt7i0arfc2etnxz95f6mfviw6c6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;752 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
with the exception of the last one. That one had been passed 
upon and confirmed, except as to a fcw items to which the 
receiver himself took exceptions. The two other receivers 
had never made any iinal account. As regards them, their 
last accounts were open and not passed upon. The last 
receiver in the case, Mr. Morrill, had, as far as I know, pre- 
sented no account at all. If he has, there is dothing to show 
but what his account is open to determination. 
TJnder that state of the case the court came to make a final 
decree, (as near as it could make a final decree.) Corning to 
make a final decree they tried to conclude as much as they 
could. Among other things, none of these receivers were dis- 
charged, and they made this order that the receivers should 
appear before the master and pass their accounts. What did 
the court mean by that, under that condition of affairs ? Did 
they mean to make an order equivalent to this, that all the 
accounts of all the receivers for all the time shall be open for 
re-examination ? That is contrary to the usual course of 
proceedings in court; contrary to all the practiees of dealing 
with accounts with administrative afïairs ; and if the court had 
meant it, it would have been very easy to say that the ac- 
counts of all these receivers are all of them open to full inves- 
tigation, and they shall all corne and pass their accounts, as 
they have never been settled at all. 
That would bave been the proper way to say that thing if the 
court meant it ; and I think that where there is such a depart- 
ure from the practice of the court — from the sound principles 
in regard to all accounting — whether private accounts or 
otherwise, stated accounts, a passing of receipts, or any set- 
tlement whatever, or a settlement in court having a judieial 
character, such is the strength of the principle that if you can 
go behind these without formai proceedings, (which I will pres- 
ently mention,) and if the court meant in that instance to say 
that much, that every one of these receivers should corne here 
without regard to any accounting heretofore, and all should 
be open as if it had never been settled, they would have said it, 
Certainly, if I had been on the bench, I should have said it if 
I meant that.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5oj8wt7i0arfc2etnxz95f6mfviw6c6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/761</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640367</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133191</id>
      <parentid>12096754</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: witb →  with,  FEDK →  FEDE,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (13)</comment>
      <origin>15133191</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2321" sha1="g5r1wlbr4j0nkig39l14y6jx9a1bh88" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;75e FEDEEAL REPORTER. 
instruct Mr. Lomax that he bas nothing to do with Mr. Grin- 
nell's aocounts. What is open, as I understand, of Mr. Grin- 
neU's case, is simply Lis own exception to the last report of 
the master. Why it bas not been disposed of, and why 
nobody takes any measures to dispose of it, we cannot say. 
We instruct the master that be bas notbing f urtber to do in 
the present condition of affairs with Mr. Grinnell's accounts. 
Possibly it may be my duty, after the argument made bere 
yesterday as to the proper mode of proceeding, to say that 
the mode of revising the report of the master on the re- 
ceiver's account may be different from revising bis report on 
any other subject. It is unnecessary to decide tbis, be- 
cause even the authorities read by Judge Gole show that the 
receiver's report stands in the same attitude as if it bad 
been passed by the master, and that it is only assailable by 
direct proceeding in court, in the nature of a petition, calling 
its attention to some error, fraud or mistake, or anything of 
the kind, and we are of opinion that no other mode of assail- 
ing these accounts exists but a direct proceeding in court and 
before the court, showing special reasons why the report 
ehould be re-examined over? 
Thb United States v. Saoia and others. 
{District Court, B. Ifeie Jersey. , 1880.) 
CoNSPiKACT — Rbv. 8t. § 5440. — A conspiracy is an agreement or 00101)1- 
nation between two or more persons to eflEect an unlawful purpose. 
8amb — Samb. — The agreement or combination is the olience, but the per- 
formance of the alleged act to efiectuate it is necessary to make it in- 
dictable under the statute. 
Samb — Sahb — Parties. — A. conspiracy may be inf erred where ît is shown 
that any two or more of the parties charged aimed, by their acts, to 
accomplish the same unlawful purpose or object, one performing one 
part and another another part of the same, so as to complete it, although 
they never met together to concert the means, or to give efEect to the 
design. 
Same — Same — Same. — ^It is not necessary that the conspiracy should 
originale with the persons charged. 
Same— Testimonï — Co-Conspibatob. — A co-conspirator is a competent 
: witness upon the trial of an indictment for conspiracy.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>g5r1wlbr4j0nkig39l14y6jx9a1bh88</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/769</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640375</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133192</id>
      <parentid>8171327</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, EPORTB → EPORTE, AIi  → AL , ORTEE → ORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133192</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2259" sha1="onhxc5odl82z1bdhtplpgeaqunht74v" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;762 FEDEEAL REPORTER. 
Lewis in carrying out the fraud. Dr. Park says that, on th&amp; 
contrary, the information was obtained solely to prepare an 
article on the deceased Lewis for publication, and the reason 
aasigned for not publishing is that the reporters had antiei- 
pated him. Inquire how the faets of the interview with the 
Bensons support these respective contentions. I was some- 
what impressed with the importance which Dr. Park seemed, 
by his conduct, to attach to the color of the eyes of one or two 
of Lewis' old servants. Both Mr. and Mrs. Benson alludeto 
the anxiety of the doctor on the subject. 
The jury will inquire whether that was an important fact 
in posting Mrs. Lewis as to her duties and responsibilities, or 
an important fact to disclose to the public in an article in 
reference to the life and habits of Lewis. You have listened 
to the comments of the respective counsel, as to his motives 
in obtaining the information, and it is for you to decide 
where the truth lies. 
The district attorney and the counsel for the defendants 
have entered so fully into the evidence of the different wit- 
nesses, showing the corroboration or want of corroboration to 
be found there, that I do not deem it necessary to pursue the 
subject further. I will only add, that if the testimony of Mrs. 
Lewis in regard to Park, taken in connection with his own 
evidence and the corroboration of other witnesses, do not 
satisfy you beyond a reasonable doubt that he was a party to 
the conspiracy, with a knowledge at any stage of the pro- 
ceedings of the attempted fraud, it is your duty to acquit him. 
If, on the other hand, you have no reasonable doubt of the 
fact, you must not be deterred by any consideration of sym- 
pathy or meroy from finding him guilty. Your duty is to 
decide according to the evidence, without regard to the conse- 
quences. 
You will then proceed in the same manner to consider the 
case of the other defendants. The direct testimony in regard 
to them is, to a small extent, from Mrs. Lewis, but mainly 
from Elijah Caldwell. If he epeaks the truth, then, doubtless, 
Sacia, Allison and Bassford are parties to the fraud. But he 
also was, in the earlier stages of the proceedings in the state&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>onhxc5odl82z1bdhtplpgeaqunht74v</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/779</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640386</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133193</id>
      <parentid>8171337</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: POBTER → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133193</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2272" sha1="iawq96xxvgcgspvng9dk5146doxwwwq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;772 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
received the same having reasonable cause to believe said 
Frederic was insolvent, and knowing that said conveyance 
was in fraud of the provisions of the bankrupt act, and the 
amendmenta therefco. And, by the second amendment, to 
these was added the charge that said conveyance is void and 
of no effect in equity and at common law, being an instru- 
ment which, in effect, hinders and delays the creditors of 
said Whipple in the collection of their just debts against him, 
and is void, also, under the provisions of chapter 163 of the 
General Statutes of Ehode Island. But inasmuch as these 
points, though stated in defendant's brief, were net pressed 
by the complainant in the close, I dismiss them from consid- 
eration as not sustained. 
Not so, however, as to the charges in the bill as first 
amended. The several averments as to the insolvency of the 
grantor, the belief of the grantee as to the grantor's insolvency, 
the intent of the grantor, and the knowledge of the grantee 
that the conveyance was in fraud of the provisions of the 
bankrupt act, were the subjeots of prolonged and exhaustive 
discussion by the learned counsel of the parties, who, agreeing 
Bubstantially as to the principles of law involved, differed 
widely and irreconcilably as to the weight and materiality of 
the facts claimed to be established by the testimony, bearing 
upon the relations, and dealings, and correspondeuce of the 
mother and son. 
In view of these facts, and especially of the legitimate pre- 
Bumptions which they warrant and necessitate, I am con- 
strained to adjudge that the complainant, by his testimony 
and argument, establishes satisfactorily the several allega- 
tions upon which his claim for a deeree is grounded and 
pressed. As this evidence is set forth in extenso in the 
printed record, it seema not necessary in this connection to 
Btate it in detail, or to indulge in comment upon any portion 
of it. Neither does it seem necessary in this connection to 
Btate in explicit terms what portion of the testimony sub- 
mitted I have been constrained to disregard as either incom- 
petent, irrelevant, ineredible or mendacious. It seems suffi- 
oient to say that, upon the issues presented at the hearing,&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>iawq96xxvgcgspvng9dk5146doxwwwq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/785</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640392</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133194</id>
      <parentid>14560972</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER, EDERAIi  → EDERAL ,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133194</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2254" sha1="bc9bqoj55kqisdrgsemxq6nw0p3pv6x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;'îTS TEDERAL REPORTER. 
quires, the burden is shifted on to the plaintiff to show 
invention or discovery by the patentee still prior to that. 
The evidence on which the plaintiff claims to make this out 
is weak; not so much in the number and charaoter of the wit- 
nesses, as in what they pretend and appear to know that 
Eagleton discovered and did, They fail to set forth such 
experiments and tests, and resulta examined by him, as would 
ordinarily accompany such a discovery. On this subject bis 
original application is very weighty and important. As said 
by Mr. Justice Nelson in Manny v. Jagger, 1 Blatchf. 372 : 
&quot; The description of the invention by the patentee, in his own 
language, affords the highest evidence of the thing or instru- 
ment which he claims to bave discovered.&quot; 
In view of all the evidence on this subject, it not only does 
not appear that Eagleton did make this invention or discov- 
ery before the others, but it appears that he did not, and that 
probably it never came to his knowledge while he lived. 
It is said in argument that it is not necessary he should 
bave known the full effect of the process he invented in order 
to uphold the patent, and that if he invented japanning it 
might not be necessary for him to know that japanning would 
temper. It is doubtless true that an inventor need not know 
ail the uses to which his invention is capable of being put; 
and equally true that there must be some patentable invention 
patented before any use of it can be covered by the patent. 
Here, japanning by itself was not patentable, Eagleton 
described no mode of japanning which would temper or 
strengthen the steel. The temper and strength are produced 
by the beat altogether, and not at all by the japan, He did not 
even mention that &quot;the japan was to be applied with beat, 
Had a patent been granted to him on his application it would 
have covered japanned springs, not tempered springs. He 
did not invent or discover anything patentable of which any 
one use eould be made, and, a fortiori, not anything of which 
more tban one use could be made. 
Upon this view of these questions of fact, the issue of fact 
joined upon the traverse of the answer must be found for the 
defendants.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bc9bqoj55kqisdrgsemxq6nw0p3pv6x</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/795</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640402</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133195</id>
      <parentid>8171353</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (13)</comment>
      <origin>15133195</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2070" sha1="hieu6710cmk5t2o7xzpilucg5z4syi8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;788 FEDERAL REPORTBB. 
a-half months' demurrage. From the ship-carpenter's own 
testimony it appearSj I think, that three months should have 
been a reasonably sufficient time in which to have com.- 
pleted the repairs made necessary by the collision. I there- 
fore deduct one month and a-half, which would reduce the 
demarrage from $553 to $368.67. 
White V. Stbam-Tug Lavbrgnb, etc. 
(District Court, S. D. New York. May 20, 1880.) 
Nboligkncb— BoAT m Tow of Tug— Landino Baege.— A tug cannot 
expose a boat in its tow to any unnecesaary peril in the course of the 
voyage, while leaving a barge in its tow at an intermediate landing. 
Same — LiABUiTT OF Tug- Boat Pilot.— A tug-boat pilot must ordinarily 
be held to be able to anticlpate the action of the wind and aea on boats 
in bis charge. 
Samb — CosTHiBUTOBT NEGLIGENCE — Master of Boat. — The master of a 
towed boat is not chargeable with contributory negligence in acquies- 
cing in the exposure of such boat to an unnecessary peril by the tug- 
boat pilot, unleas the danger about to be incurred is very obvions. 
W. R. Beebe, for libellant. 
S. H. Valentine, for claimant. 
Choate, D. J. This is a libel to recover damages alleged 
to have been sustained by the libellant's canal-boat F. W. 
Walker, on the fourteenth day of April, 1878, while in tow 
of the steam-tug Lavergne, through the carelessness of the 
•tug. The tug undertook to tow the canal-boat, which waa 
light, from Nyack to Hoboken. She had also to tow from 
Nyaek to Irvington, four miles below Nyack, on the east side 
of the Hudson, a heavily-loaded barge. She took the canal- 
boat on her port side and the barge on her starboard side, 
and proceeded down the river. There was a brisk north-west 
wind, making a short, chopping sea in that part of the river 
which broadens into what is known as the Tappan Sea. The 
&quot;weather was pleasant, and there is no evidence of any change 
in wind or sea up to the time of the accident. After getting 
into the middle of the river and proceeding down for about&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hieu6710cmk5t2o7xzpilucg5z4syi8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/797</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640404</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133196</id>
      <parentid>8171355</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED,  FEDEK →  FEDER, POKTER → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133196</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2308" sha1="duj43oggatdanqqbliz3j8bzr80xus4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;790 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
shown or suggested for the break in the timber, and the spring- 
ing of the timbers proved, except this. 
The testimony of the libellant and his wife, which tend to 
show a very violent rocking and thumping of the canal-boat 
while in this position, is confirmed to some extent by the tes- 
timony of the pilot of the tug, who admits that while his en- 
gine was stopped and he was heading about N. E. which 
would have brought him about broadside to the wind and 
sea, and in the trough of what sea there was, the libellant, 
from his boat hailing him, complained of his stopping there 
and said something about his boat jumping. I do not think 
it controls the evidence on the part of the libellant, that the 
witnesses from the tug and the barge did not observe or do 
not now recollect any sueh thumping as would account for 
so serions an injury to libellant's boat. The tug and the 
barge were deep in the water, and had the canal-boat on the 
windward side of them. The tug and barge were much less 
liable to be affected by the motion of the water than the 
canal-boat, and those on them were much less likely to no- 
tice its effect on the canal-boat than those on her. 
Great importance seems to have been attached in the trial 
and the argument to the question, how long the canal-boat 
was thus kept broadside to the sea and wind in rounding to. 
The libellant insists that they stopped there several minutes ; 
that they were held in that position much longer than was 
really necessary to effect the landing of the barge ; that by 
going down stream a little further before rounding to, and 
keeping the engine working constantly tiU they got headed up 
the river, they would have passed more quickly through this 
dangerous point of the navigation, giving the canal-boat less 
opportunity to pound against the tug; that by handling her 
in this way the slowing or stopping of the engine to deaden 
the headWay of the barge, which was necessary in order to 
bring her up to the pier without too violent contact, could 
have been avoided altogether, or, at any rate, might have 
been made after rounding to and while heading up the river, 
and not, as wasdone, while broadside to the wind and sea. 
I think, upon the evidence, that the stopping of the engine&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>duj43oggatdanqqbliz3j8bzr80xus4</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/813</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640420</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133197</id>
      <parentid>8171374</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133197</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2237" sha1="80qo4xhgi2vvmfy7t13uzgkj2xbq7ao" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;806 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
light he thinks she was one-quarter of a mile off, and to lee- 
ward of the Mason. The mate says when the Calkins' green 
light was seen, she was about one-quarter of a mile away, 
and that when he saw both her lights her distance was 
about 600 feet. The wheelsman says that when he saw the 
Calkins' green light she was from 600 to 700 feet away; that 
when he saw her red light she was from 300 to 400 feet dis- 
tant, and that when he put the Mason's wheel hard down the 
Calkins was from 150 to 200 feet distant. The master tes- 
tifies that when he saw the Calkins' green light he judged 
she was a quarter of a mile away to leeward of the Mason, 
and that this light disappeared when the two vessels were 
between one and two hundred feet apart, and he instantly 
ordered the wheel hard down. Simmons, one of the crew, 
who came on deck from the watch below, says the Calkins 
was about 500 feet distant when he saw both her lights. 
On the part of respondent the testimony tends to show 
that the two vessels were about a mile or a mile and a-half 
apart when the hom of the Mason was first heard, and that 
they were not much more than a vessel's length apart when 
the Mason's light was seen. The witnesses differ in their 
testimony pf the time that elapsed between the lirst signal 
heard and the time of the collision, and as to the time 
between the discovery of lights and the collision, and in , 
estimates of time and distance there is a greater liability to 
error; but I am convinced that the Calkins' lights were seen 
OA the Mason before the Mason's lights were seen on the 
Calkins. 
Now, it is plainly shown, by respondent's proofs, that the 
movements of the Calkins proceeded wholly upon the sup- 
position that she had not crossed the Mason's course, and I 
regard it equally clear that if she was about to cross, or was 
crossing, or had crossed her course when the signais were 
first heard, then the movements she made were just such as 
might bring the vessels together. It is a most singular cir* 
cumstance that it does not seem to have occurred to the 
master of the Calkins, when he changed the course of his 
vessel, nor even when he saw the Mason's lights, that he&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>80qo4xhgi2vvmfy7t13uzgkj2xbq7ao</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/819</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640426</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133198</id>
      <parentid>8171380</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133198</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2360" sha1="ibqtrsc5h42dpq7gctllxzp74d9kdgv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;812 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
Second. That on the fifteenth day of December, A. D. 1879, 
Baid schooner Mary Weaver sailed from Port Comfort, in the 
Btate of Virginia, with a valuable cargo of coal on board, 
bound for the port of Providence, in the state and district of 
Bhode Island, and that during said voyage, to-wit, about 11 
o'clock p. M. of the seventeenth day of December, A. D. 1879, 
when in Long Island sound, oiï Saybrook, in the state of Gon- 
necticut, and about six miles southerly therefrom, and heading 
east by north, with the wind blowing an eight-knot breeze 
from a little west of north, and with her lights ail as required 
by law, set and burning brightly, and the master and two of 
crew on the lookout for the protection and management of 
the vessel, the said master and crew descried at some dis- 
tance ahead, to-wit, about half of a mile, and about one point 
on their starboard bow, a vessel which afterwards proved to be 
the schooner Onmst, aforesaid, approaching and heading about 
from west to north, to west by north- west, or thereabouts, and 
being on her starboard tack, and showing to those on the 
Mary Weaver her red light plainly, Whereupon, the master 
of said schooner Mary Weaver ordered the helm of his vessel 
put hard a-port, which was done, and thereby opened the 
lights of said Onmst f uUy five points to the windward or port, 
said Mary Weaver keeping her wheel hard a-port, when of a 
sudden the red light of the said Onmst was obscured to him 
and his crew, and her green light became visible ; and although 
he kept his helm hard a-port as possible, and slackened his 
main peaks and tried to keep out of her way, yet the said 
Onmst continued to bear down on the weather or port side of 
the said Mary Weaver, and struck her on that side near her 
stem, cutting her down to within one streak of her water line, 
carrying away one corner of her house, and her wheel and 
wheel-post and attachments, and the stern-post and davit, and 
rail and attachment, and injuring and carrying down her boat, 
and doing much other damage to said schooner Mary Weaver. 
Third. That said collision and damage were caused solely 
by the fault of the person having charge of and navigating 
said schooner Onmst, in not keeping her on the course she 
was sailing when the vessels descried and neared each other,&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ibqtrsc5h42dpq7gctllxzp74d9kdgv</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/827</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640434</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133199</id>
      <parentid>14560988</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: witb →  with,  PEDEBAL →  FEDERAL, PORTKB → PORTER, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133199</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2153" sha1="rb0ck3z2h7g1l7kx4emglydkdumkzfh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;820 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
to the fourth set the breach alleged is the failure to delîvei 
214 42-60 bushels of the wheat shipped. 
The answer denies all knowledge as to the quantity of 
wheat shipped; avers that it was expressly understood that 
the quantity shipped was unknown; denies any breach of 
the contraet, and avers a delivery of aU the wheat shipped 
under the bills of lading referred to. Under these pleadinga 
the burden of proof is upon the libellants, and in order to 
recover they must show a deficieney in the wheat delivered, 
and the amount thereof. This bas not been done. No wit- 
ness bas been called who undertakes to state or pretends to 
know the quantity of wheat delivered in Havre; and tha 
case, so far as the libellants are concerned, is bare of evi- 
dence upon that point. But the master of the vessel is sworn 
by the claimants, and testifies, without qualification or dis- 
pute, that all the grain shipped was duly delivered in Havre ; 
and in this he is oonfirmed by the circumstances that the 
bills of lading are produeed by the claimants at the trial, 
and must therefore be presumed to have been surrendered by 
the oonsignee« of tha grain upon the delivery of the grain. 
I bave mot overlooked the testimony from which it was 
argued that upon the arrivai of the steamship at Bristol, 
England, whither jhe proceeded from Havre, that the master 
there sold wheat from the vestsel to the value of some nine 
pounds. The master's explanation of this circumstanoe is 
that he had the steamer cleaned at Bristol, and what he sold 
was &quot;sweepings&quot; -f the value of five pounds, which he paid 
over to the owners. But if the facts in regard to this trans- 
action be as contended by the libellants, (and I confess that 
the weight of the evidence appears to me to be with the mas- 
ter,) still it would do no more than create a suspicion. There 
would still be a total failure of evidence upon which it would 
be possible to find that any specifie quantity of grain shipped 
onder any of the bills of lading in suit had not been delivered. 
The result is that tha libel must ba dismissed, and with 
costs.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rb0ck3z2h7g1l7kx4emglydkdumkzfh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/831</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640438</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133200</id>
      <parentid>8171394</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, EPORTB → EPORTE, ORTEE → ORTER, removed: � (13)</comment>
      <origin>15133200</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1905" sha1="civ14sc2nnz93fqfvpyhjvt6ag7oiyt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;82e FEDEEAli REPORTER. 
study of the testimony, with the aid of the able arguments 
and briefs of counsel, to come to any reasonably certain con- 
clusion as to which of these two classes of witnesses tells the 
truth in respect to this light. I think neither can be mis- 
taken, therefore I am obliged to hold that the libellants have 
not Bustained the burden of proof which is upou them to 
show that they had a light. 
Libel dismissed, with costs. 
ToPFEB V. The Sohooner Mary Zephyr, etc. 
{District Court, D. Oalifornia. May 19, 1880.) 
Fdnd in Regisïky — Advances by Part Ownbr — Statutort LtEîr— 
CrviL Code Califoenia, f 3055. — Where the part owner of a ship haa 
a statutory lien for advances, (Civil Code California, } 3055,) as against 
a co-owner, he may be pald out of surplus proceeds remaining in tha 
registry of the court. 
Petition against Proceeda. 
HoFPMAN, D. J. It cannot be disputed that the petitioner 
to establish his right to be paid out of the surplus proceeds re- 
maining in the registry, must show not merely that his co- 
owner is indebted to him, but that he had a lien upon the 
vessel for the debt. 
This court cannot, in an admiralty suit, exercise the func- 
tions of a court of bankruptcy and distribute the surplus pro- 
ceeds of a vessel sold under its decree among the general 
creditors of the owner. But the privilege, or jm in rc, which 
the court in such cases will recognize and enforce need not 
necessarily be a maritime lien, or a lien on which an original 
suit in the admiralty oould be brought. Thus a mortgagee, 
though his rights could not be enforced by a libel to foreclose, 
may, nevertheless, claim and receive as against the mortgagor 
the remuants and surplus in the registry, and apply them in 
satisfaction of his mortgage. In like manner the lien of an 
attaching crediter will be respected after the satisfaction of&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/839</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640446</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133201</id>
      <parentid>8171402</parentid>
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      <text bytes="2303" sha1="eodsawrx0htzmz01fhq72ygw474355k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;833 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
the liabîlity of the trustees upon their disclosure. The defend- 
ant, by its treasurer, became indoraer upon two notes made 
by other railroad companies, forming a Connecting and contin- 
uous Une with the defendant's road, for the purpose of rais- 
ing money for those companies to enable them to complete a 
email portion of the line, and to carry out a consolidation 
arrangement between them. The defendant is a corporation 
of the state of Maine, and the incurring such liability is 
brought directly within the scope of its corporate powers by 
chapter 591 of the acts of the legislature of that state for 
1868, and an amendment thereto passed in 1875. The direct- 
ors of the defendant voted that the treasurer should be au- 
thorized to indorse Buch notes, provided that Horace Fair- 
banks should agree that the portion of the line to be built 
should be completed before the first note should fall due, and 
to save the defendant harmless if it was not so completed. 
Severe siokness of Pairbanks stood in the way of obtaining 
Buch agreement from him seasonably, and it was waived by 
the officers of the defendant on other assurances, and notes 
were indorsed by the treasurer and discounted by the plain- 
tiff. The piece of road was completed before the first note 
fell due. The notes were not paid when due, and these two 
notes were afterwards made and indorsed in renewal of them. 
The plaintiff knew ail the facts connected with the indorse- 
ments. By the provisions of the by-laws of the defendant 
the treasurer had not authority to indorse these notes with- 
out the approval of the directors; and it is contended, in 
behalf of the defendant, that as the directors only authorized 
the indorsement of these notes provided Fairbanks should 
give the guaranty, there was no authority, and the indorse- 
ments could not be binding without the guaranty. The prin- 
cipal question as to the liability of the defendant arises upon 
this claim. 
The law of the defendant's existence did not require any 
such guaranty in order to create such liability. The directors 
were in no wise compelled to require it. They could require 
it or not, and if they did require it could waive it. It was 
waived, and must have been waived by them. The indorse-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/843</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640450</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133202</id>
      <parentid>8171407</parentid>
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      <text bytes="2150" sha1="k1pwz5pe6re0n9o1ia8qylrf1jaf873" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;836 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
WiTHET, D. J. On the second of Januarj, 1875, the mem- 
bers composing the firm of Colby &amp; Co. owned and mort- 
gaged lands to plaintiff to secure the payment of $25,000; 
among other lands, lot No. 2, of section 10 north, of range 7 
west, situated in Montcalm county, Michigan, on which was 
pine timber constituting the principal value of the premises. 
Ten thousand dollars, with interest, were payable July 2, 
1876, and $16,000, and interest, January 2, 1877. 
In January, 1878, while the mortgage remained wholly 
nnpaid, defendant entered upon said premises, and eut and 
removed 650,000 feet, board measure, of pine timber, of the 
value of $1,300, or two dollars per 1,000 feet. It was without 
the knowledge of plaintiff, who alleges that thereby defendant 
&quot;greatly injured and damaged said premises,&quot; etc., &quot;whereby 
the plaintiff's security for the said sum of $25,000 and in- 
terest was greatly lessened, impaired and destroyed, to the 
plaintiff's damage,&quot; etc. 
Defendant pleaded the general issue. 
It appears that defendant and the mortgagors, after the 
date of the mortgage, agreed to exchange the pine upon their 
respective lands for convenience in hauling, defendant to pay 
$1,000 as the difference in value, he to have the pine in ques- 
tion. Defendant paid part of the $1,000 to the mortgagors, 
Colby &amp; Co., and the balance was subsequently paid to their 
assignees in bankruptcy. 
When the mortgage was given there were over 1.3,000,000 
feet of pine* timber on the mortgaged land. At the time de- 
fendant took the timber in question from this particular lot 
the quantity remaining on the entire tract had been reduced 
to about 6,500,000 feet by Colby &amp; Co., in their kimbering 
business, and with the knowledge and consent of plaintiff, 
but upon an understanding between them not necessary or 
material to be stated. 
It further appeared that at the time of the agreement to 
exchange timber defendant was informed by Colby &amp; Co. 
that they had no right to permit the timber to be eut without 
the consent of the mortgagee. 
There was a prier mortgage upon the lands covered by&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/851</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640458</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133203</id>
      <parentid>8171416</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:21Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2299" sha1="akt67jlsjyxu1ixnvz3fvxiad7qv3vc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;844 rStHSSAL REPORTER. 
That the notes claimed upon were procured by saîd Boycr 
from Seitzinger upon June 24, 1876, by untrue representa- 
tions made by Boyer to Seitzinger that E. D. Wood &amp; Co. 
needed accommodation. That neither Seitzinger nor HuddeH 
&amp; Seitzinger received any consideration therefor. ThatE. D. 
Wood &amp; Co. had no knowledge or notice of this, and suppoaed 
the notes represented a debt due by the maker to Boyer. 
That if the court should be of opinion that the plaintiffs 
are entitled to recoTer, judgment is to be entered for the plain- 
. tiffs for $351.49, being 5 per cent, on the amount of the said 
two notes, with interest, viz., $7,029.84, the said 5 per cent, 
being the dividend theretofore declared upon the allowed 
claims against the estate of Huddell &amp; Seitzinger, bankrupts; 
otherwise, judgment for defendants. Both parties reserved 
the right to take a writ of error to the judgment. 
Thomas Hart, Jr., for plaintiffs. 
E. O. Platt and Samuel Dickson, for defendants. 
Pkk Curiam. Is the holder of a negotiable note, who bas 
takcn it as a security for a pre-existing debt, a holder for value, 
and so protected against any equities subsiating between the 
original parties to it? This is the only question presented 
by this case. If the rule established in Pennsylyania by the 
decisions of her highest court is to be foUowed, it must b« 
answered in the negative. But these decisions are only per- 
suasive, as may be said aîso of the recent decision in thia 
court by a late eminent judge, conformably to the state rule. 
The question involved is not one of local law, but of general 
commercial jurisprudence; henof? the duty of the court is 
imperative to follow the guidance of general judicial opinion 
concerning it. As to the preponderating weight of this opin- 
ion there is scarcely ground for doubt. 
In perhaps a majority of the United States the law is 
eettled that the taking of a note as collateral security for a 
pre-existing debt is a holding for value. So it is held in Eng- 
land. See 2 C. M. &amp; E. 180; Percival v. Frampton and Poi- 
rier V. Morris, 2 E. &amp; B. 89. It is stated to b« the better 
doctrine in 3 Kent's Com. *81 ; in Story on Prom. Notes, § 195 ; 
in 1 Parsons' Prom. Notes, 218; and in Byles on Bills, by&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 2.djvu/855</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>640462</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133351</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:41:48Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2318" sha1="nin6eidu161u307u4xskf91vnctgwm4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;848 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
Now, it is not pretended that at the time of the conveyances 
to the wife Thomas May contemplated embarking in any 
hazardous business, nor is it shown that he then had any 
intention to contract new indebtedness. Indeed, there is not 
a particle of evidence to show that any fraud was intended 
upon future creditors. Therefore, even if the conveyances to 
his wife were fraudaient as to then-existing creditors, they 
were good and valid as respects subsequent creditors. Snyder 
V. Christ, 39 Pa. St. 499 ; Monroe v. Smith, 79 Pa. St. 4.59 ; 
Harlan v. Maglaughlin, Pittsburgh L. J., May 19, 1 880. More- 
over, before Judson Lûtes made his first loan to Thomas May 
he was fully informed of the conveyances to the wife. As to 
him, therefore, there could be no fraud. Snyder v. Christ, 
supra; Monroe v. Smith, supra. 
Most certainly a fraudulent conveyance is binding on the 
grantor and those claiming under him. Hence, if it ever so 
clearly appeared that the intentions of Thomas May were 
covinous as respects his then-existing creditors, yet as against 
him and a subsequent crediter, who became such with full 
knowledge of the facts, the estate conveyed to the wife was 
as absohitely hers as if the transaction was free from the 
taint of fraud. But one of the exceptions is that &quot;the regis- 
ter erred in not finding that Marilla May held said land in 
trust for her husband, Thomas May, the bankrupt;&quot; and a 
very earnest and able argument to show that such trust 
relationship existed was made by the learned counsel for the 
exceptant', who cited in support of the proposition Kelly' s Ap- 
peal, 77 Pa. St. 232. But in that case the court adopted th» 
theory pf a trust in the wife for her husband, because the 
wife never claimed the land, but permitted it to be taken in 
execution and sold as the estate of her deceased husband, 
and there was no evidence that the title was put in the wife 
to defraud her husband's creditors. Here, however, the very 
evidence upon which the exceptant relies to show the trust 
q,rrangement alleged, if accepted as true, establishes that the 
conveyances to Marilla May were in fraud of her husband's 
creditors, and that the intention was to withdraw the land 
from their reach — a purpose entirely inconsistent with any&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 55.djvu/486</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>658498</id>
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      <text bytes="7097" sha1="favshwygrj56ie9iy16zk4ke65r54d6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Charles Matthews&quot; /&gt;{{running header|Taylor|480|Taylor}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Taylor, Wittewronge&quot; /&gt;the Weasel sloop and sent home. He paid her off in May 1749. In March 1755 he commanded the Seaford and afterwards the Raven in the Channel, and with the western squadron till posted, on 2 Dec., to the Monarch. During the next two years Taylor held several temporary commands—the Magnanime, Neptune, Magnanime again, Royal William—and early in 1758 was appointed to the Ramillies, the flagship of Sir Edward (afterwards Lord) Hawke [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], with whom he continued through 1758 and the blockade of Brest in 1759, while Hawke was teaching the navy what the blockade of Brest meant. After the many months at sea the Ramillies was in need of refitting, and when preparing to leave Torbay on 14 Nov. Hawke struck his flag in the Ramillies and went on board the Royal George. Taylor remained in the Ramillies, and took her round to Plymouth to be repaired. In the following February (1760) she sailed, one of a squadron of three-deckers under the command of Admiral Boscawen. A violent westerly gale drove them back; the ships were separated; the weather was thick and hazy, and the Ramillies was suddenly found in dangerous proximity to the Bolt Head. She let go her anchors, which brought her up for the moment; but the storm was at its height, the cables parted, and the ship was hurled on the rocks. Out of the crew of 734, twenty-five only and one midshipman, improbably said to have been {{DNB lkpl|Falconer, William (1732-1769)|William Falconer}} (1732–1769) [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], author of ‘[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]’—whose name does not appear in the ship's paybook—were saved.

&lt;small&gt;[The memoir in Charnock's Biog. Nav. vi. 151, is very meagre; further details are to be looked for in the logs, pay-books, and captain's letters in the Public Record Office.]&lt;/small&gt;{{DNB JKL}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Taylor, Wittewronge&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Taylor, Zachary&quot; /&gt;'''TAYLOR''', ZACHARY (1653–1705), the ‘Lancashire Levite,’ was born at Bolton, Lancashire, on 20 April 1653, and baptised at the parish church on 24 April. His father, Zachary Taylor (1619–1693), a graduate of Trinity College, Dublin, had held preferment in Ireland, and been chaplain in the royal army. About 1649 he held the rectory of Grappenhall, Cheshire; in 1651 he was incumbent of Gorton chapel, Lancashire; he became master of the grammar school at Bolton in 1653, and joined the second presbyterian classis of Lancashire, officiating at Cockey chapel, 1653–7; he then became assistant to Robert Bathe (1604–1674), vicar of Rochdale, with whom he suffered ejection in 1662; he again became schoolmaster successively at Rochdale and (from 1673–4) at the grammar school of Kirkham; he married (before 1644) Abigail Ward. He is mentioned in the diary of Henry Newcome [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], but must not be confused with Zachary Taylor (''b''. 1606) of Holt Hall, Rusholme, mentioned also as Newcome's neighbour.

Zachary, the son, was admitted at Jesus College, Cambridge, on 19 April 1671, and graduated B.A. in 1675, and M.A. in 1678; he was incorporated at Oxford on 13 July 1678. He was appointed vicar of Ormskirk on 9 March 1680, and resigned in 1693, becoming curate to the rector of Wigan. On 10 Dec. 1695 he was appointed by the crown to the rectory of Croston, Lancashire, still retaining the curacy of Wigan. He died in 1705, probably in May; his will, dated 30 April, was proved at Chester on 19 June 1705. He married, first, on 12 July 1685, Barbara (''d''. September 1689), daughter of Sir Edward Stanley, baronet, of Bickerstaff. His second wife, Anne, survived him, with several children.

Taylor, a hard-headed whig, was the first to ‘demonstrate’ in an anonymous tract, ‘Submission and Obedience to the Present Government,’ 1690, 4to, the duty of taking the oaths of allegiance to William and Mary from ‘Bishop Overall's Convocation Book.’ This work had lately been published for the first time by Archbishop Sancroft in order to justify the attitude of non-jurors, but Taylor interpreted the argument of the book in quite an opposite sense. The author, John Overall [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], had drawn up the manuscript in 1606, but had not published it. It consisted of a series of canons which had been submitted to convocation and accepted by it early in James I's reign in regard to the right of subjects to resist oppressive government. The canons, which were ambiguous in temper, denied the subjects' right of resistance, but at the same time recognised that a government originating in successful rebellion might acquire the stamp of divine authority. To the latter doctrine James I objected, and the canons were suffered to drop before they received official confirmation. Sancroft had brought the matter to public notice by insisting on Overall's doctrine of non-resistance to the exclusion of the conflicting corollary. Taylor's pamphlet put the opposite construction on Overall's argument, and his interpretation seems to have influenced the course of William Sherlock, D.D. [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], who forsook his previous scruples and took the oaths to the new government of William III and Mary. Taylor added a ‘Vindication,’ 1691, 4to (anon.). A local religious controversy drew from him ‘The Devil turn'd Casuist; or the Cheats of Rome,’ 1696, 4to. He is remembered for the prominent part he took in exposing the foibles of dissenters in the case of Richard Dugdale [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], the ‘Surey demoniac,’ by publishing ‘The Surey Impostor,’ 1697, 4to. It had been claimed for Dugdale, a humble youth of Surey, near Whalley in Lancashire, who was subject to epileptic seizures, that he was ‘possessed,’ in the Gospel sense, and many nonconformist divines in Lancashire, including Thomas Jollie [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], the ejected minister of Altham, stoudly declared their belief in the miraculous nature of Dugdale's condition. Taylor denounced the affair as a mere imposture on the credulous. Jollie replied. Taylor rejoined in ‘Popery, Superstition, Ignorance, and Knavery … very fully proved,’ 1698, 4to. He was then attacked in ‘The Lancashire Levite Rebuk'd,’ 1698, 4to (anon.), probably by John Carrington of Lancaster. Hence his nickname, which deceived Calamy (followed by Halley and Nightingale) into supposing that Taylor, the object of the tract, was its author. Taylor retorted in ‘Popery, Superstition, Ignorance, and Knavery confess'd and fully proved,’ 1699, 4to. His published discourses include funeral sermons for Lady Elizabeth Bradshaigh (1695) and John Risley (1705).

&lt;small&gt;[Calamy's Account, 1713, pp. 399 seq.; Halley's Lancashire, 1869, ii. 179; Fishwick's Kirkham (Chetham Soc.), 1874, pp. 145 seq.; Scholes's Bolton Bibliogr. 1886, pp. 37 seq.; Minutes of Manchester Presbyterian Classis (Chetham Soc.), 1890, i. 81, iii. 446; Minutes of Bury Presbyterian Classis (Chetham Soc.), 1896, i. 133; Nightingale's Lancashire Nonconformity [1892], iii. 240; Foster's Alumni Oxon. 1500–1714.]&lt;/small&gt;{{DNB AG}}&lt;section end=&quot;Taylor, Zachary&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>The New International Encyclopædia/Volume VII Ellesmere - Fontanel</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>676013</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133698</id>
      <parentid>15043958</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:48:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133698</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8108" sha1="tceb4jhmbv2wmh2c3ribgwof8txc1wo" xml:space="preserve">{{NIE Index Page
 |current          = Volume VII
 |previous         = Volume VI Davioud - Ellery
 |next             = Volume VIII Fontanes - Goethe
 |extra_notes      =
 |other_projects   = the [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 07.djvu|scan index]]
 |previous_subpage =
 |next_subpage     =
 |column_1         = El - Em
 |column_2         = En - Ez
 |column_3         = F - Fe
 |column_4         = Fi - Fo
 |defaultsort      = New International Encyclopædia, The/Volume 07
}}
|valign=&quot;top&quot;|
*[[../Key to pronunciation/]]

*[[../Ellesmere, Francis Egerton, first Earl of/]]
*[[../Ellis, George Edward/]]
*[[../Ellsworth/]]
*[[../Ellsworth, Ephraim Elmer/]]
*[[../Ellsworth, Oliver/]]
*[[../Ellwangen/]]
*[[../Ellwood, Thomas/]]
*[[../Elm (village)/]]
*[[../Elm/]]
*[[../Elm-Insects/]]
*[[../Elmira/]]
*[[../Elmira College/]]
*[[../Elmira Reformatory/]]
*[[../Elohim/]]
*[[../Elohist and Yahwist/]]
*[[../Emancipation/]]
*[[../Emancipation, Proclamation of/]]
*[[../Embury, Philip/]]
*[[../Emden/]]
*[[../Emelé, Wilhelm/]]
*[[../Emerson/]]
*[[../Emerson, Alfred/]]
*[[../Emerson, Benjamin Kendall/]]
*[[../Emerson, George Barrell/]]
*[[../Emerson, Ralph Waldo/]]
|valign=&quot;top&quot;|
*[[../Encke, Erdmann/]]
*[[../Encke, Johann Franz/]]
*[[../Encyclopædia/]]
*[[../Encyclopédie/]]
*[[../End/]]
*[[../Ende, Hermann/]]
*[[../Endeavor, The/]]
*[[../Endecott, John/]]
*[[../Endemann, Wilhelm/]]
*[[../Engel, Carl/]]
*[[../Engel, Ernst/]]
*[[../Engel, Franz/]]
*[[../Engel, Johann Christian von/]]
*[[../Engel, Johann Jakob/]]
*[[../Engel, Joseph/]]
*[[../Engel, Karl Dietrich Leonhard/]]
*[[../Engelberg/]]
*[[../Engelbert/]]
*[[../Engelbert I./]]
*[[../Engelbrecht, Theodor/]]
*[[../Engelbrechtsen, Cornelis/]]
*[[../Engelhard, Wilhelm/]]
*[[../Engelhardt, Georg von/]]
*[[../Engelhardt, Moritz von/]]
*[[../Engelmann, George/]]
*[[../Engelmann, Johannes/]]
*[[../Engels, Friedrich/]]
*[[../Engerth, Eduard von/]]
*[[../Engerth, Wilhelm, Baron/]]
*[[../Enghien, Louis Antoine Henri de Bourbon, Duc d'/]]
*[[../Epistolæ Obscurorum Virorum/]]
*[[../Essenes/]]
*[[../Esther/]]
*[[../Esther (Racine)/]]
*[[../Esther, Apocryphal Book of/]]
*[[../Esther, Book of/]]
*[[../Ethnography/]]
*[[../Ethnology/]]
*[[../Eubulus (poet)/]]
*[[../Eudiometer/]]
*[[../Eudocia/]]
*[[../Eudoxia Feodorovna/]]
*[[../Eudoxus/]]
*[[../Eufaula/]]
*[[../Euganean Hills/]]
*[[../Eugen, Friedrich Karl/]]
*[[../Eulenburg, Philipp, Prince/]]
*[[../Eulenspiegel, Till/]]
*[[../Euler, Leonhard/]]
*[[../Eupolis/]]
*[[../Euripides/]]
*[[../Europa/]]
*[[../Europa and the Bull/]]
*[[../Europe/]]
*[[../Europe, Peoples of/]]
*[[../Evanston (Illinois)/]]
*[[../Evanston (Wyoming)/]]
*[[../Evansville/]]
*[[../Ewald, Georg Heinrich August von/]]
*[[../Ex Post Facto/]]
*[[../Express/]]
*[[../Expression/]]
*[[../Exterritoriality/]]
*[[../Exterior Ballistics/]]
*[[../Extinct Animals/]]
*[[../Extinct Birds/]]
*[[../Extinction of Species/]]
*[[../Extortion/]]

*[[../Extraterritoriality/]]
|valign=&quot;top&quot;|
*[[../Fabian Society, The/]]
*[[../Fakhr-ad-Din ar-Razi/]]
*[[../Fakir/]]
*[[../Falaise/]]
*[[../Falanaka/]]
*[[../Falashas/]]
*[[../Falb, Rudolf/]]
*[[../Falck, Niels Nikolaus/]]
*[[../Falcón/]]
*[[../Falcon/]]

*[[../Falconer, Hugh/]]
*[[../Falconer, William/]]

*[[../Falkland, Lucius Cary, second Viscount/]]
*[[../Falkland Islands/]]
*[[../Falkner, Roland Post/]]
*[[../Falkner, Thomas/]]
*[[../Falköping/]]
*[[../Far Eastern Question/]]
*[[../Farel, Guillaume/]]
*[[../Farensbach, Jürgen von/]]
*[[../Farewell, Cape/]]
*[[../Farfa, Abbey of/]]
*[[../Fargo/]]
*[[../Fargus, Frederick John/]]
*[[../Faria, Abbé/]]
*[[../Faria y Sousa, Manoel/]]
*[[../Faribault/]]
*[[../Faridkot/]]
*[[../Farīd-ud-Dīn ʿAṭṭār/]]
*[[../Farina/]]
*[[../Farmer George/]]
*[[../Farmers' Alliance/]]
*[[../Farrar, Eliza Ware/]]
*[[../Fast/]]
*[[../Fast and Loose/]]
*[[../Fastenrath, Johann/]]
*[[../Feckenham, John de/]]
*[[../Fecundation/]]
*[[../Fedalma/]]
*[[../Federal Government/]]
*[[../Federalist, The/]]
*[[../Federalists/]]
*[[../Feijó, Diogo Antonio/]]
*[[../Feis-Ceoil/]]
*[[../Feisi/]]
*[[../Feith, Rhijnvis/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (emperor)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (emperor)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand III. (emperor)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I., the Just/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (King of Aragon)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (Emperor of Austria)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I., Prince of Bulgaria/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (King of Castile and Leon)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (King of Leon)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand III. (King of Castile and Leon)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand IV./]]
*[[../Ferdinand V., the Catholic/]]
*[[../Ferdinand VI./]]
*[[../Ferdinand VII./]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (King of Naples)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (King of Naples)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand III (King of Naples)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (King of Portugal)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (King of the Two Sicilies)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (King of the Two Sicilies)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (Grand Duke of Tuscany)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (Grand Duke of Tuscany)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand III. (Grand Duke of Tuscany)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand IV. (Grand Duke of Tuscany)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand (Duke of Bavaria)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand (Duke of Brunswick)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand (King of Portugal)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand of Portugal/]]
*[[../Ferdinand, Victor Albert Mainrad/]]
*[[../Ferdinand Albert II./]]
*[[../Ferdinand William/]]
*[[../Ferdinand. (fictional)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand And Isabella, History of the Reign of/]]
*[[../Ferdinand, Count Fathom, the Adventures of/]]
*[[../Ferentino/]]
*[[../Ferento/]]
*[[../Fern/]]
*[[../Ferney/]]
*[[../Ferney, The Patriarch of/]]
*[[../Fernkorn, Anton Dominikus/]]
*[[../Fernow, Bernhard Eduard/]]
*[[../Ferris, Albert Warren/]]
*[[../Fessenden, Thomas Green/]]
*[[../Fessenden, William Pitt/]]
*[[../Fessler, Ignaz Aurelius/]]
*[[../Festivals/]]
|valign=&quot;top&quot;|
*[[../Fichel, Eugène/]]
*[[../Fichet, Guillaume/]]
*[[../Fichte, Immanuel Hermann/]]
*[[../Fichte, Johann Gottlieb/]]
*[[../Fillmore, Millard/]]
*[[../Final Cause/]]
*[[../Finale/]]
*[[../Finale Nell'Emilia/]]
*[[../Finality John/]]
*[[../Finance/]]
*[[../Finland/]]
*[[../Finland, Gulf of/]]
*[[../Fischbach, Friedrich/]]
*[[../Fischer, Emil/]]
*[[../Fischer, Gustav Adolf/]]
*[[../Fischer, Jean Chrétien/]]
*[[../Fischer, Johann/]]
*[[../Fischer, Johann Georg/]]
*[[../Fischer, Kuno/]]
*[[../Fischer, Ludwig Hans/]]
*[[../Fischer, Paul Henri/]]
*[[../Fischer, Theobald/]]
*[[../Fischer von Erlach, Johann Bernhard/]]
*[[../Fischer von Waldheim, Gotthelf/]]
*[[../Fish/]]
*[[../Fish as Food/]]
*[[../Fish, Royal/]]
*[[../Fish, Hamilton/]]
*[[../Fish, Hamilton, Jr./]]
*[[../Fish, Nicholas (soldier)/]]
*[[../Fish, Nicholas (diplomatist)/]]
*[[../Fish-Crow/]]
*[[../Fish Culture/]]
*[[../Fisher/]]
*[[../Fisher, Charles (statesman)/]]
*[[../Fisher, Charles (comedian)/]]
*[[../Fisher, Clara/]]
*[[../Fisher, George Jackson/]]
*[[../Fisher, George Park/]]
*[[../Fisher, John (Churchman)/]]
*[[../Fisher, John (theologian)/]]
*[[../Fisher, Joshua Francis/]]
*[[../Fisher, Payne/]]
*[[../Fisher, Sydney George/]]
*[[../Fisher, William Arms/]]
*[[../Fisheries/]]
*[[../Fisher's Island/]]
*[[../Fish-Fly/]]
*[[../Fish-Hawk/]]
*[[../Fishing/]]
*[[../Fishing Birds/]]
*[[../Fishing Bounties/]]
*[[../Fishing Cat/]]
*[[../Fishing Creek, Battle of/]]
*[[../Fishing Eagle/]]
*[[../Fishing Frog/]]
*[[../Fishing Laws/]]
*[[../Fishkiller/]]
*[[../Fishkill Landing/]]
*[[../Fish-Louse/]]
*[[../Fish Manure/]]
*[[../Fish of Paradise/]]
*[[../Fish-Owl/]]
*[[../Fish Plate/]]
*[[../Fishtail Palm/]]
*[[../Fisk, Clinton Bowen/]]
*[[../Fisk, Fidelia/]]
*[[../Fisk, James, Jr./]]
*[[../Fisk, Wilbur/]]
*[[../Fiske, Daniel Willard/]]
*[[../Fitchburg/]]
*[[../Fitchy/]]
*[[../Fitger, Arthur Heinrich Wilhelm/]]
*[[../Fittig, Rudolf/]]
*[[../Fitting, Hermann Heinrich/]]
*[[../Flad, Henry/]]
*[[../Fliedner, Theodor/]]
*[[../Florida/]]
*[[../Florida (vessel)/]]
*[[../Florida Agricultural College/]]
*[[../Flour/]]
*[[../Flour Beetle/]]
*[[../Flourens, Gustave/]]
*[[../Flourens, Léopold Emile/]]
*[[../Flourens, Marie Jean Pierre/]]
*[[../Folks, Homer/]]
*[[../Follen, August/]]
*[[../Follen, Charles Theodore Christian/]]
*[[../Follen, Eliza Lee (Cabot)/]]
|}</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133711</id>
      <parentid>15133698</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:57:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133711</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8169" sha1="s3hcsbwf4z44wuwgfpy87u7sfk3k4d4" xml:space="preserve">{{NIE Index Page
 |current          = Volume VII
 |previous         = Volume VI Davioud - Ellery
 |next             = Volume VIII Fontanes - Goethe
 |extra_notes      =
 |other_projects   = the [[Index:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 07.djvu|scan index]]
 |previous_subpage =
 |next_subpage     =
 |column_1         = El - Em
 |column_2         = En - Ez
 |column_3         = F - Fe
 |column_4         = Fi - Fo
 |defaultsort      = New International Encyclopædia, The/Volume 07
}}
|valign=&quot;top&quot;|
*[[../Key to pronunciation/]]

*[[../Ellesmere, Francis Egerton, first Earl of/]]
*[[../Ellis, George Edward/]]
*[[../Ellsworth/]]
*[[../Ellsworth, Ephraim Elmer/]]
*[[../Ellsworth, Oliver/]]
*[[../Ellwangen/]]
*[[../Ellwood, Thomas/]]
*[[../Elm (village)/]]
*[[../Elm/]]
*[[../Elm-Insects/]]
*[[../Elmira/]]
*[[../Elmira College/]]
*[[../Elmira Reformatory/]]
*[[../Elohim/]]
*[[../Elohist and Yahwist/]]
*[[../Emancipation/]]
*[[../Emancipation, Proclamation of/]]
*[[../Embury, Philip/]]
*[[../Emden/]]
*[[../Emelé, Wilhelm/]]
*[[../Emerson/]]
*[[../Emerson, Alfred/]]
*[[../Emerson, Benjamin Kendall/]]
*[[../Emerson, George Barrell/]]
*[[../Emerson, Ralph Waldo/]]
|valign=&quot;top&quot;|
*[[../Encke, Erdmann/]]
*[[../Encke, Johann Franz/]]
*[[../Encyclopædia/]]
*[[../Encyclopédie/]]
*[[../End/]]
*[[../Ende, Hermann/]]
*[[../Endeavor, The/]]
*[[../Endecott, John/]]
*[[../Endemann, Wilhelm/]]
*[[../Engel, Carl/]]
*[[../Engel, Ernst/]]
*[[../Engel, Franz/]]
*[[../Engel, Johann Christian von/]]
*[[../Engel, Johann Jakob/]]
*[[../Engel, Joseph/]]
*[[../Engel, Karl Dietrich Leonhard/]]
*[[../Engelberg/]]
*[[../Engelbert/]]
*[[../Engelbert I./]]
*[[../Engelbrecht, Theodor/]]
*[[../Engelbrechtsen, Cornelis/]]
*[[../Engelhard, Wilhelm/]]
*[[../Engelhardt, Georg von/]]
*[[../Engelhardt, Moritz von/]]
*[[../Engelmann, George/]]
*[[../Engelmann, Johannes/]]
*[[../Engels, Friedrich/]]
*[[../Engerth, Eduard von/]]
*[[../Engerth, Wilhelm, Baron/]]
*[[../Enghien, Louis Antoine Henri de Bourbon, Duc d'/]]
*[[../Epistolæ Obscurorum Virorum/]]
*[[../Essenes/]]
*[[../Esther/]]
*[[../Esther (Racine)/]]
*[[../Esther, Apocryphal Book of/]]
*[[../Esther, Book of/]]
*[[../Ethnography/]]
*[[../Ethnology/]]
*[[../Eubulus (poet)/]]
*[[../Eudiometer/]]
*[[../Eudocia/]]
*[[../Eudoxia Feodorovna/]]
*[[../Eudoxus/]]
*[[../Eufaula/]]
*[[../Euganean Hills/]]
*[[../Eugen, Friedrich Karl/]]
*[[../Eulenburg, Philipp, Prince/]]
*[[../Eulenspiegel, Till/]]
*[[../Euler, Leonhard/]]
*[[../Eupolis/]]
*[[../Euripides/]]
*[[../Europa/]]
*[[../Europa and the Bull/]]
*[[../Europe/]]
*[[../Europe, Peoples of/]]
*[[../Evanston (Illinois)/]]
*[[../Evanston (Wyoming)/]]
*[[../Evansville/]]
*[[../Ewald, Georg Heinrich August von/]]
*[[../Ex Post Facto/]]
*[[../Express/]]
*[[../Expression/]]
*[[../Exterritoriality/]]
*[[../Exterior Ballistics/]]
*[[../Extinct Animals/]]
*[[../Extinct Birds/]]
*[[../Extinction of Species/]]
*[[../Extortion/]]

*[[../Extraterritoriality/]]
|valign=&quot;top&quot;|
*[[../Fabian Society, The/]]
*[[../Fakhr-ad-Din ar-Razi/]]
*[[../Fakir/]]
*[[../Falaise/]]
*[[../Falanaka/]]
*[[../Falashas/]]
*[[../Falb, Rudolf/]]
*[[../Falck, Niels Nikolaus/]]
*[[../Falcón/]]
*[[../Falcon/]]

*[[../Falconer, Edmund/]]
*[[../Falconer, Hugh/]]
*[[../Falconer, William/]]
*[[../Falconet, Etienne Maurice/]]

*[[../Falkland, Lucius Cary, second Viscount/]]
*[[../Falkland Islands/]]
*[[../Falkner, Roland Post/]]
*[[../Falkner, Thomas/]]
*[[../Falköping/]]
*[[../Far Eastern Question/]]
*[[../Farel, Guillaume/]]
*[[../Farensbach, Jürgen von/]]
*[[../Farewell, Cape/]]
*[[../Farfa, Abbey of/]]
*[[../Fargo/]]
*[[../Fargus, Frederick John/]]
*[[../Faria, Abbé/]]
*[[../Faria y Sousa, Manoel/]]
*[[../Faribault/]]
*[[../Faridkot/]]
*[[../Farīd-ud-Dīn ʿAṭṭār/]]
*[[../Farina/]]
*[[../Farmer George/]]
*[[../Farmers' Alliance/]]
*[[../Farrar, Eliza Ware/]]
*[[../Fast/]]
*[[../Fast and Loose/]]
*[[../Fastenrath, Johann/]]
*[[../Feckenham, John de/]]
*[[../Fecundation/]]
*[[../Fedalma/]]
*[[../Federal Government/]]
*[[../Federalist, The/]]
*[[../Federalists/]]
*[[../Feijó, Diogo Antonio/]]
*[[../Feis-Ceoil/]]
*[[../Feisi/]]
*[[../Feith, Rhijnvis/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (emperor)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (emperor)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand III. (emperor)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I., the Just/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (King of Aragon)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (Emperor of Austria)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I., Prince of Bulgaria/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (King of Castile and Leon)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (King of Leon)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand III. (King of Castile and Leon)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand IV./]]
*[[../Ferdinand V., the Catholic/]]
*[[../Ferdinand VI./]]
*[[../Ferdinand VII./]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (King of Naples)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (King of Naples)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand III (King of Naples)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (King of Portugal)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (King of the Two Sicilies)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (King of the Two Sicilies)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand I. (Grand Duke of Tuscany)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand II. (Grand Duke of Tuscany)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand III. (Grand Duke of Tuscany)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand IV. (Grand Duke of Tuscany)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand (Duke of Bavaria)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand (Duke of Brunswick)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand (King of Portugal)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand of Portugal/]]
*[[../Ferdinand, Victor Albert Mainrad/]]
*[[../Ferdinand Albert II./]]
*[[../Ferdinand William/]]
*[[../Ferdinand. (fictional)/]]
*[[../Ferdinand And Isabella, History of the Reign of/]]
*[[../Ferdinand, Count Fathom, the Adventures of/]]
*[[../Ferentino/]]
*[[../Ferento/]]
*[[../Fern/]]
*[[../Ferney/]]
*[[../Ferney, The Patriarch of/]]
*[[../Fernkorn, Anton Dominikus/]]
*[[../Fernow, Bernhard Eduard/]]
*[[../Ferris, Albert Warren/]]
*[[../Fessenden, Thomas Green/]]
*[[../Fessenden, William Pitt/]]
*[[../Fessler, Ignaz Aurelius/]]
*[[../Festivals/]]
|valign=&quot;top&quot;|
*[[../Fichel, Eugène/]]
*[[../Fichet, Guillaume/]]
*[[../Fichte, Immanuel Hermann/]]
*[[../Fichte, Johann Gottlieb/]]
*[[../Fillmore, Millard/]]
*[[../Final Cause/]]
*[[../Finale/]]
*[[../Finale Nell'Emilia/]]
*[[../Finality John/]]
*[[../Finance/]]
*[[../Finland/]]
*[[../Finland, Gulf of/]]
*[[../Fischbach, Friedrich/]]
*[[../Fischer, Emil/]]
*[[../Fischer, Gustav Adolf/]]
*[[../Fischer, Jean Chrétien/]]
*[[../Fischer, Johann/]]
*[[../Fischer, Johann Georg/]]
*[[../Fischer, Kuno/]]
*[[../Fischer, Ludwig Hans/]]
*[[../Fischer, Paul Henri/]]
*[[../Fischer, Theobald/]]
*[[../Fischer von Erlach, Johann Bernhard/]]
*[[../Fischer von Waldheim, Gotthelf/]]
*[[../Fish/]]
*[[../Fish as Food/]]
*[[../Fish, Royal/]]
*[[../Fish, Hamilton/]]
*[[../Fish, Hamilton, Jr./]]
*[[../Fish, Nicholas (soldier)/]]
*[[../Fish, Nicholas (diplomatist)/]]
*[[../Fish-Crow/]]
*[[../Fish Culture/]]
*[[../Fisher/]]
*[[../Fisher, Charles (statesman)/]]
*[[../Fisher, Charles (comedian)/]]
*[[../Fisher, Clara/]]
*[[../Fisher, George Jackson/]]
*[[../Fisher, George Park/]]
*[[../Fisher, John (Churchman)/]]
*[[../Fisher, John (theologian)/]]
*[[../Fisher, Joshua Francis/]]
*[[../Fisher, Payne/]]
*[[../Fisher, Sydney George/]]
*[[../Fisher, William Arms/]]
*[[../Fisheries/]]
*[[../Fisher's Island/]]
*[[../Fish-Fly/]]
*[[../Fish-Hawk/]]
*[[../Fishing/]]
*[[../Fishing Birds/]]
*[[../Fishing Bounties/]]
*[[../Fishing Cat/]]
*[[../Fishing Creek, Battle of/]]
*[[../Fishing Eagle/]]
*[[../Fishing Frog/]]
*[[../Fishing Laws/]]
*[[../Fishkiller/]]
*[[../Fishkill Landing/]]
*[[../Fish-Louse/]]
*[[../Fish Manure/]]
*[[../Fish of Paradise/]]
*[[../Fish-Owl/]]
*[[../Fish Plate/]]
*[[../Fishtail Palm/]]
*[[../Fisk, Clinton Bowen/]]
*[[../Fisk, Fidelia/]]
*[[../Fisk, James, Jr./]]
*[[../Fisk, Wilbur/]]
*[[../Fiske, Daniel Willard/]]
*[[../Fitchburg/]]
*[[../Fitchy/]]
*[[../Fitger, Arthur Heinrich Wilhelm/]]
*[[../Fittig, Rudolf/]]
*[[../Fitting, Hermann Heinrich/]]
*[[../Flad, Henry/]]
*[[../Fliedner, Theodor/]]
*[[../Florida/]]
*[[../Florida (vessel)/]]
*[[../Florida Agricultural College/]]
*[[../Flour/]]
*[[../Flour Beetle/]]
*[[../Flourens, Gustave/]]
*[[../Flourens, Léopold Emile/]]
*[[../Flourens, Marie Jean Pierre/]]
*[[../Folks, Homer/]]
*[[../Follen, August/]]
*[[../Follen, Charles Theodore Christian/]]
*[[../Follen, Eliza Lee (Cabot)/]]
|}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Author:Hugh Falconer</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
    <id>677345</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133745</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:24:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
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      <text bytes="1257" sha1="d5arc079mt4hbif5o5s87ay2gjx3pfs" xml:space="preserve">{{author
 | firstname    = Hugh
 | lastname     = Falconer
 | last_initial = Fa
 | description  = Scottish geologist, botanist, palaeontologist and paleoanthropologist
 }}

==Works==
* ''Fauna Antiqua Sivalensis, being the Fossil Zoology of the Sewalik Hills, in the North of India, Part I, Proboscidea,'' 1846 with [[Author:Proby Thomas Cautley|Proby Thomas Cautley]] {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/faunaantiquasiva00falc}}
* ''Palæontological memoirs and notes of the late Hugh Falconer,'' edited, with a biographical sketch, by [[Author:Charles Murchison|Charles Murchison]], M.D., 2 vols., 1868 {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/b22650738_0001|2=https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_4r4wAQAAMAAJ}}
* Falconer's works were documented in the Royal Society's ''Catalogue of Scientific Papers,'' vol. ii, 1968.

==Works about Falconer==
* {{IDUB link|Falconer, Hugh}}
* {{EB9 link|Falconer, Hugh|volume=9}}
* {{AmCyc link|Falconer, Hugh|year=1879}}
* {{DNB link|Falconer, Hugh}}
* {{NIE link|Falconer, Hugh}}
* {{Nuttall link|Falconer, Hugh|F}}
* {{EB1911 link|Falconer, Hugh}}


{{PD-old}}
{{authority control}}

[[Category:Scottish authors]]
[[Category:Paleontologists as authors]]
[[Category:Paleoanthropologists as authors]]</text>
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    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 8.djvu/4</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>700419</id>
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CASES REPORTED. 
Page 
Clatsop Chief , The 163, 767 
Coates, Commercial Bank of Cincin- 
nati V 540 
Coates, First Nat. Bank of Cincin- 
nati V 540 
Coates, Reno County State Bank v... 640 
Coates, Third Nat. Bank of Cincin- 
nati V 540 
Cobb V. Kidd 695 
Coburn v. Schroeder 519, 521 
Cooliran , Missouri Furnace Co. v . . . . 463 
Coes, Collins Co. v 517 
Coe Y. Cayuga Lake R. Co 534 
Collignon v. Hayes 912 
Collins Co. V. Coes 517 
Columbia, The, Baysen v 716 
Columbia, The, Cahill v 716 
Columbia, The, Nat. Freight &amp; 
Lighterage Co. v 716 
Commercial Bank of Cincinnati v. 
Coates 340 
Connecticut Mut. Life Ins. Co., 
Ellisv 81 
Connecticut Mut. Life 1ns. Co. v. 
Jones 303 
Conrad Seipp Brewing Ce, Gott- 
f ried v 322 
Cook V. Bidwell 452 
Corvallis Fruit Co. v. Curran 150 
Cote V. Moffltt 152 
Courier Co., Judson v 422 
Coyne v. Oaples 638 
Crandall v. Richardson 808 
Cross, Andrews v 369 
Crossman v. Pendery 693 
Curran, Corvallis Fruit Co. v 150 
Davis V. Stewart 803 
Dayton, Hayes v 702 
De Florez v. Raynolds 434 
Delaware, L. &amp; W. R. Co., Thomas v. 729 
Des Moines Navigation &amp; Bailroad 
Co., Iowa Homestead Co. V 97 
Detrick v. Balfour 468 
Detweiler v. Voege 600 
Dodge V. Fearey 329 
Donovan v. A Cargo of Two Hundred 
and Porty Tons of Coal 368 
Dowdell, United States v 881 
Dowell V. Applegate 698 
Dows &amp; Co., Greenleaf V 550 
Du Bois, McKloskey v 710 
Eames, Maguire v 761 
Ellisv. Connecticut Mut. Life Ins.. 
Co 81 
Emerson, American Saw Co. v 806 
Emerson, State of Delaware v 411 
Eknerson v. Howe 327 
E. P. Gleason Manuf'g Co., White v. 917 
Bquator Mining &amp; Smelting Co., 
Harris v 863 
Erhardt v. Boaro 692, 860 
Page 
Esselborn, In re 904 
Evansville JSTat. Bank v. Britton.... 867 
Eyre, Nat. Bank of Winterset v 733 
Farmers' Loan &amp; Trust Co. v. Cent. 
R. of Iowa 60 
Farnley, The 629 
Farwell v. Houghton Copper Works. 66 
Fearey, Dodge v 329 
First Nat. Bank of Cincinnati v. 
Coates 540 
First Nat. Bank of Marietta v. Hovey, 
Iams&amp; Co 314 
First Nat. Bank of New Orleans v. 
Bohne 115 
Fisher, United States v 414 
Pitch V. Bragg 588 
Frank G. Powler, The 331, 340, 360 
Frank G. &amp; S. M. Co. v. Larimer 
M.&amp;8.C0 724 
Freddie L. Porter, The 170 
Fussell V. Gregg 384 
Fussell V. Hughes 384 
Galvin, Von Utassy v 746 
Gaskill V. Benton 746 
Gatling Gun Co. , Palmer v 513 
Gteorge A. Hoyt, The 845 
George v. Rails County 647 
German Savings Institution v. Adae 106 
Ghen v. Rich 169 
Gillespie, United States v 140 
Glover V. Ames 351 
Gottfried v. Conrad Seipp Brewing 
Co 322 
Gould, Hobart v 57 
Graf Klot Trautvetter, The 833 
Greenleaf v. Dows &amp; Co 550 
Greenwalt v. Tucker 792 
Gregg, Fussell v 384 
Gregory v. Orrall 287 
GriflSths v. Holmes, Booth &amp; Hay- 
dens 154 
Griswold, United States v 496, 656 
Harriman v. Rockaway Beach Pier 
Co 94 
Harris v. Equator Mining &amp; Smelt- 
ing Co 863 
Harrison, Third Nat. Bank of Bt. 
Louis V 721 
Hayes v. Dayton 702 
Hayes, Collignon v 913 
Hazard, United States v 380 
Henry Stewart Manuf'g Co., Singer 
Manuf-g Co. V 920 
Herraan, Roesner v 782 
Hicks, Brown v 155 
Higgins V. City of Fond du Lac 289 
Hobart v. Gould 57 
Hobart v. Johnson 493 
Hobbs V. King 91 
Hodges, Beatty V 610&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 8.djvu/543</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>700972</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132741</id>
      <parentid>14027920</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:47:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa  →  Iowa ,  lowa, →  Iowa, (2),  lowa. →  Iowa., removed: � (19)</comment>
      <origin>15132741</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3061" sha1="4vtxhlf02bqq3yym90k2l5q0z18ahvf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;BBooss V. o'hara. 629 
Brooks &amp; Hardy v. O'Hara Bros. 
[Circuit Court, p. Iowa. 1881.) 
1. EqUITT PLBADrNG— A.LTEKNATIVE AXIiEOATIONS. 
A bill is demurrable because too indeflnite, wherein it is alleged that the 
decree which ia sought to be set aside was obtained either by the mistake of all 
parties, or by deception practiced upon the complainant, or by the collusion of 
the respondent with third parties. 
2. SaMB — AVBRMBNTS UPON INFORMATION AND BkIiIEF— FbAUD — INJONCTIONS. 
Where aa Injutiction is aalied for, in the flrat instance, upon the grouud of 
fraud, the facts constituting the fraud must be made to appear l)y positive 
averments, based upon the Icnowledge of the complainant, or that of some one 
else who is personally cognizant of them. Allegations based upon information 
and belief only are Insufflcient. 
3. Rbs Adjudicata. 
One is estopped from raising any question which might have been deter- 
mined in a former suit between the same parties and upon the same subject- 
matter, provided he was not prevented from raising it in such former suit by 
the wrongful act of the other party, 
Bill in equity brought to set aside a decree in favor of respondents, 
establishing a mechanic's lien upon the Burlington &amp; South western 
Railway for $39,763.26, heretofore rendered in this court. The ma- 
terial allegations of the bill are the following : 
&quot;Your orators represent and show to the court that heretofore, to-wit, 
about 1870, the Burlington &amp; Southwestem Railway Company, a corporation 
in Iowa, constructing, owning, and operating a railroad in Iowa and Missouri, 
by a certain deed of trust, duly and legally executed, conveyed its railroad 
property and franchises to your orators and one James F. Joy, who subse- 
quently assigned his interest in said trust to your orators; said railway Com- 
pany being then and now a citizen of the state of Iowa, and your orators cit- 
izens of the state of Massachusetts, and said James F. Joy a citizen of the 
state of Michigan. 
&quot;That said deed of trust was made to secure certain bonds, to be issued 
by said railway company to aid in constructing said railway, to the amount of 
$20,000 per mile of road, which bonds were actually issued and sold ; and said 
railway having made default in payment of interest on said bonds, your ora- 
tors flled their bill to foreclose said mortgage in this court, and such proceed- 
ings were had that on the eighth day of June, 1871, a decree of foreclosure 
was entered, whereby it was found and decreed by the court that said com- 
pany was indebted to your orators in the su m of million dollars, and 
said property ordered to be sold. 
&quot;Your orators further state and charge that said respondents, prior tol874, 
were engaged in constructing a certain portion of said road, having a contract 
to do the grading under J. W. Barnes, who was the original eontractor, and 
which grading was to be done at certain prices set ont and stipulated between 
him and said Burlington &amp; Southwestern Railway Company. 
V.8,no.8— 3e&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 8.djvu/544</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>700973</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132742</id>
      <parentid>8176572</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:47:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: ihe  →  the ,  lowa, →  Iowa, (2), removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15132742</origin>
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      <text bytes="3513" sha1="8rhee6wt1ybqz3hyn9vibyx8x31zaa9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;530 FEDERAL REFOBTEB. 
&quot;That said respondents, prior to January 1, 1874, made out and rendered to 
sald railway company statements of the amount of work done by them and 
claimed to be paid therefor, and certain estimates were made by the engineer 
of said railway eompany for the sums so claimed, under the beliei and sup- 
position that said statements made by them were true and correct. 
&quot; That prior to the flrst of January, as aforesaid, said railway eompany had 
paid to said respondents large sums of money on account of said work, and 
they held a large amount of said estimates, so called, for work done, as claimed 
by them, which were not paid. 
&quot;That In December, 1873, said respondents brought suit in the circuit 
court of Appanoose county, Iowa, upon these estimates, claiming that there 
was yet the amount thereof due to them for grading done on said railroad, and 
such proceedings were had in the premises that a judgment and decree was 
rendered in their favor against said railway eompany on the ninth day of 
January, 1874, for the sum of $39,763.24, besides costs; but your orators were 
not parties thereto; but your orators charge that said estimates were issued 
and said judgments obtained upon the belief that said respondents had done 
the work claimed by them, and that, in rendering their accounts, they had 
acted in good faith, and that their representations of the amount of work done 
were true and correct. 
&quot; That it was subsequent to the obtaining of this judgment that your ora- 
tors commenced proceedings in this court to foreclose said mortgages, and in 
that proceeding said respondents were made* parties to the bill, and appeared 
and flled their cross-bill, setting up said judgment and decree rendered in the 
circut court of Appanoose county, Your orators beg to refer to said proceed- 
ing in said cause in this court as part of this bill, and, without setting the 
same out in hœn verba, to show what was done therein. 
&quot;That during the pendency of said suit, and before decree therein, the par- 
ties, by counsel, entered into an agreed statenient of the facts, whereby it was 
admitted that said respondents' claim was correct, as shown by the judgment 
in Appanoose county, but sueh agreement was made under the belief and 
upon the representations that said judgment in Appanoose county was prop- 
erly obtained upon a true state of the facts, and without any knowledge that 
said claim was not correct, or that the work upun which it was based had not 
been done. 
&quot;Such other proceedings were had in said cause in this court that on the 
eighth day of June, 1877, a decree was entered awarding to said respondents 
the amount of said judgment in Appanoose county, Iowa, and ordering that 
the same be a lien on the property of said railway eompany paramount and 
superior to that of the mortgage to your orators hereinbefore mentioned. 
&quot; That your orators and their counsel were wholly ignorant of what state 
of facts was proved in Appanoose county, or upon what representations or 
daim said decree was rendered, or whether the claim upon which it was based 
was correct or not ; and your orators had no reason to know, and had no real 
knowledge, of the incorrectness of the same until withih a few weeks last 
past. But so it is ; and your orators now charge upon information and belief 
that the claim made by the respondents iii said Appanoose county, and upon 
which said judgment and decree was rendered, was vvholly friiudulent and&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 9.djvu/825</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702223</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133225</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:20:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDBB →  FEDER, DERAL BE → DERAL RE, POKTER → PORTER, removed: � (10)</comment>
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      <text bytes="2640" sha1="esminfpkw06tdt9v7pw85a652vkzjem" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;810 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
demurrer was not certifled by counsel to be, in their opinions, well founded in 
point of law, nor was it supported by the affldavit of the defendants that it 
was not interposed for delay, 
Baker e Hughes, for plaintiffs. 
Waldo P. Johnson and H. A. Cunningham, for defendants. 
Tbbat, D. J. a so-called demurrer was filed to the amended bill 
in thia case on April 1, 1880, not in conformity with rule 31, United 
States supreme court. The plaintif! might have moved, therefore, 
more than a year ago, for a decree pro confessa as to said demar- 
rants. That so-called demurrer is now submitted and oyerruled. 
An examination of the case satisfies the court that if said demurrer 
had conformed to the rules, it would not have been well taken. It 
was interposed, obviously, for mere delay, inasmuch as the only legal 
question involved had been decided, as set out in the bill, (65 Mo. 
123,) adversely; which decision this court recognizes as conclusive 
on a question of state taxation. 
To the amended bill, filed January 7, 1880, only one answer bas 
been filed, which is a general deniai, couohed in the form of an 
answer to a law action in the state court, and not sworn to. No 
replication thereto bas been filed ; so the case bas been suffered to 
float. More than a year ago the plaintiff could have had, by proper 
motion, a decree pro confesso; (1) Because the so-called demurrer 
was no demurrer in conformity with the rules of the supreme court; 
and, even if it were, it was not well taken, under the conclusive 
rulings of the supreme court of Missouri. (2) Several of the defend- 
ants had interposed no answer to the amended bills. (3) The only 
defendant purporting to answer, interposed merely a general deniai 
to the allegations of the bill, to which there should, possibly, have 
beon a pro forma replication. Such practice as a general deniai in 
form of a general issue is wholly unknown in equity ; and, whether 
allowable or not, the case might have been set down for hearing on 
the pleadings, with such evidence as had been presented within the 
time prescribed for taking the same. If such a deniai as to Holliday 
puts the party to a formai replication and proofs, the said defendant 
could, on motion, have the case dismissed as to him. But the man- 
ner in which these faulty proceedings have been pursued induces the 
court to permit, on terms, further action to be had, so far as the 
same may pertain to the merits, and no further. 
The demurrer will be overruled, at the cost of the demurrants. 
Plaintiffs may take such further action as they may deem necessary.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>esminfpkw06tdt9v7pw85a652vkzjem</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 9.djvu/845</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702243</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133226</id>
      <parentid>14630835</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:20:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, OBTER → ORTER</comment>
      <origin>15133226</origin>
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      <text bytes="2670" sha1="gz7utfa6rql8a0a47mzudutb9jfq44x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;830 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
Vangundy, and Pratt, and the model of Whiteley. I read frcm the 
specifications of Vangundy's patent of 18G4 this extract : 
&quot;The central portion of the front bar, D, (tbat is, the arched coupling-bar,) 
is bent upwards so as to pass over the tops of the rows of growing coni or 
other grain without injuring the crop, and the rear bar, E, is forked for the 
same purpose.&quot; 
Nor was the idea of a jointed beam-yoke or axle which would 
allow one plow to advance to a limited extent without the other new 
to Schroeder, Eichholtz, Norton, Pattee, or Poling. Constant made 
provision for it by the pivoting of his beam-yoke to the beam, as 
shown in his model, thereby securing the evener motion of Schroeder 
and Eichholtz, or parallel-rule motion of Norton and Pattee. 
Vangundy made express provision for it in his specifications, as 
follows : 
&quot;As the retaining pins, c c c c, act as pivots, the longitudinal playing of the 
ends of the bar, D, upon the pins, 6 6, permit, to a certain degree, the inde- 
pendeut movement of the two draught-bearas in parallel Unes, whilst a similar 
play of the ends of the bars E and F, upon their retaining pins, c c, within the 
slots in the share-beams, B B', permit the end of either draught-beam to be 
elevated or depressed independent of the other.&quot; 
So that here is express provision for the independent action of 
each plow to a certain extent, and provision also for the lateral and 
vertical movement which is shown in the patents of the complainants. 
Pratt says, in his specifications : 
&quot;The invention consists in Connecting together two plow-beams, arranged 
in such a manner that each beam will have an independent movement, or one 
to a certain extent independent of the other, whereby the implement is 
placed TOore under the control of the operator than usual, and managed with 
less labor and with less fatigue to the team.&quot; 
&gt;fC •!* T* T* n* V T* •!• 
«One draught animal is attached to each beam, A, and it will be seen from 
the above description that each beam. A, in consequence of being connected 
by the cross-bars, D D, as shown, is allowed a certain independent movement 
longitudinally, and may therefore be managed and operated with facility in 
case of meeting with obstructions, and the implement is not so liable to be 
strained or raclied as when ths rigid frames are used, nor the team so much 
fatigued.&quot; 
&quot; In plowing or cultivating corn I remove the bars, D D, and put on curved 
metal bars, H, as shown in figure 3.&quot; 
Here we have, in the Pratt device, all of the subatantial idea 
shown in Schroeder; that is, the connection of the plow-beams by a&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gz7utfa6rql8a0a47mzudutb9jfq44x</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 9.djvu/853</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702251</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133227</id>
      <parentid>8177835</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:20:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: whieh → which,  ihe  →  the ,  lowa, →  Iowa, (2), removed: � (16)</comment>
      <origin>15133227</origin>
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      <text bytes="3402" sha1="ct9yf550pevs4o7b75rgt9nb7c0s2io" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;838 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
298; Butler v. Suffolh Glass Co. 126 Mass. 512; Drought v. Curtiss, 
8 How. (N. Y.) 56. 
As there is no claim that the trial in the state court was not a full 
and fair trial, leave to file the supplemental answer should be granted, 
and the judgment roll, when offered in evidence, would be a bar to 
the further prosecution of the libellants' claim. Bven if not pleaded, 
this judgment, as an adjudication against the libellants upon the same 
breaches of contract alleged by them in their libel, would be com- 
petent, if not conclusive, evidence against them on the trial. IIop- 
kins V. Lee, 6 Wheat. 109; Young v. Rummall, 2 Hill, (N. Y.) 478; 
S. C. 5 Hm, (N. Y.) 61. 
Ab the judgment in the state court may be reversed on the appeal 
pending, the libel should not be dismissed, but the proceedings stayed 
untU the determination of the appeal. 
NOTE. 
Conclusiveness of Judgments in Personam. 
General Bule. An adjudication upon the raerits of a demand by a court 
o£ competent jurisdiction is conclusive against the parties and those in privity 
wlth them before every other court, both of the cause of action and of every 
fact which is a necessary part of that cause of action ; and, with regard to the 
facts going to make up the cause of action, the adjudication is conclusive not 
only in a subsequent suit upon the same cause of action, but in any suit that 
may be instituted between the same parties or their privies.(a) 
Judgment must have been Final. In order to bar a new suit upon the 
same cause of action the judgment must have been flnal(6) in the sense of 
being capable of being made the subject of an appeal. No interlocutory judg- 
ment or decision upon a motion not going to the merits of the action will bar 
another suit upon the same demand.(c) The New York Code has, however, 
Bomewhat enlarged the efCect of interlocutory judgments. (d) 
On THE Mkrits. the judgment, further, must have been reiulered on the 
merits to bar a new suit upon the Scame cause of action. Judgment upon a 
plea in abatement, or upon a plea to the jurisdiction, or because the suit is 
(a)Bo(fcuin v. Satcher, 61 Ala. 81; Kelty v. Donlin, 70 ni. 378 j Stati y. Ramsburg, 43 Md, 325; De 
Proui V. Soyg-en», 70 Me. 266 i jlrfams v. Camaro», 40 Mich. 506; TOsonT. Daois, 32 Gratt. 92; Weturn 
M- f M. Co. V. Virginia Coal Co. 10 W. Va. 250: HendricIcSony. Iforcroas, i 0. K. Green, 417; Baliwin v. 
McCrae, Si Ga. 65i&gt;; Tioga R. Co. t. Btoasburg tf O. R. Co. 20 Wall. 137; Aurora City v. We^t, 7 Wall. 
B2; Beloit y. .Morgan. lA. 619; GoodricU v. T/ie Olty,BWtin.b66; Dotjlev. Iieillij,lSl0W:i,liB; Pamter 
T. Hogue, 45 Iowa, 426; Allie v. Schmitz, 17 WlB. IG:i; Il alh v. Frackleta n, 2i) Wia.320; Smitli v. Wat/, 
9 Allen, 472; Jordan v. Pairctoth, 34 Ga. 47; D^marett v. Darg, 32 N. Y. 281; Eimer v. Richards, 25 
m. 289; Baicock v. Cami&gt;, 12 0hlo St. 11; BsU v. MeCulloch, 31 Ohin St. ,397; Sergeant T. ISwing, 36 
Pa.St.l66; Cabotv. Wa3hingloa,4i Vt. 153; Gu/wooi? v. Ganonoi, 2;) Cal. 511 ; Frsnr.hv. Howard, It 
Ind. 465; Sliutilcaxdorth v. Uuglisy, 9 Bicli. 337; Stewart T. Dcnl, 24 Mo. 111; Waliier V. Mitchcll, IS B. 
Mon. 5(1. 
(») Webb V. Buckeleio, 82 N. Y. 655. 
(c)Iil.; Coltina v. Jenninga, 42 Iowa, 447. 
id')Webi T. Buclcalew, tupra; Emton v. Ptckeragill, 75 N. Y. 539; Rtgga v. Purcell, 74 N. Y. 370: 
Dwight V. St. John, I5 N. Y. 203.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ct9yf550pevs4o7b75rgt9nb7c0s2io</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 9.djvu/859</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702257</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133228</id>
      <parentid>8177841</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:20:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT, EPORTEB → EPORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133228</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2815" sha1="gdvvmtst5i5o4vauh1ipckhknw3nbt7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;844 FEDETIAL REPORTER, 
at a distance from it variously estimated in the testimony from a 
quarter of a mile to a mile. Shortly before, the Bohooner Aiexaudria, 
also bound down the river, had come to anchor at a point a little 
below the Repplier, and from 100 to 200 yards nearer to the southerly 
shore. The night was dark, but neither foggy nor thick. The Eepplier 
had on board the captain, a mate, and a colored lad acting as stew- 
ard. No watch was kept during the night, but before going to bed 
they set the usual light in the fore-rigging, about eight f eet above 
deck, and the Alexandria had a similar light. 
The Isaac Bell belongs to the Old Dominion line of steamships, 
running from Richmond to New York. On that evening she came 
down the river upon one of her regular trips, and, some time before 
reaching the White Shoal light, sighted the light of the Alexandria, 
as well as the White Shoal light. She proceeded in her usual 
course, S. E. by E., keeping the light of the Alexandria a little off 
her starboard bow. As she approached this light her wheel was put 
to starboard, and a few moments afterwards she ran upon the Eep- 
plier, her paddle-box upon the port side, carrying away the bowsprit 
and rigging of the schooner, sweeping along her side, and causing 
such injury that in a few hours afterwards she sank. No light was 
seen upon the Repplier, prior to this collision, by those on board the 
Isaac Bell. The pilot and wheelsman were in the pilot-house at the 
time, and the lookout at the bow. They all testify that no light was 
visible upon the Eepplier, and that she was not perceived at all until 
just before the collision, shortly after veering to port to avoid the 
Alexandria. No person was awake on board the Alexandria or the 
Eepplier at the time of the collision, unless the testimony of the col- 
ored lad, that he was on deck at the time, is to be credited. 
A few hours before, at about 11 o'clock at night, the steamer 
Norfolk, of the Clyde line, had also gone down the river upon one of 
her regular trips, and nearly in the same traok. Her captain testi- 
fied that his course is usually somewhat nearer to the White Shoal 
light than that of the Isaac Bell, and that he saw the light of the 
Alexandria ; that he passed from 40 to 50 yards inside of the Eep- 
plier, and near enough to distingiiish her, and that she had no light 
then burning; that he &quot;took particular notice, and if there had beeu a 
light he would certainly have seen it.&quot; The pilot, the quartermas- 
ter who was at the wheel, and the lookout of the Isaac Bell, all of 
whom were obviously attending to their duties at the time, testify to 
the same thing. They saw the light of the Alexandria long before. 
She was properly avoided, and there is no reason to suppose if the&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gdvvmtst5i5o4vauh1ipckhknw3nbt7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 9.djvu/867</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702265</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133229</id>
      <parentid>12964716</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:20:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa, →  Iowa,, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133229</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3720" sha1="8fyya7gemwjzqeptdt13mob3z3xnx0p" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;852 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
ship fimds, for partnership purposes, and which lemains after paying the 
Jebts of the firm and adjustiiig the equitable clairas of the different members 
of the firm, as between themselves, is accordingiy considered and treated as 
real estate. Buckley v. Buckley, 11 Barb. 43 ; Sci-uggs v. Blair, 44 Miss. 456. 
See, however, Thayer v. Lane, Walk. Ch. 200. And, where not needed for 
such purposes, it descends to the heir, lilie other real estate. Williamson v. Fon- 
tain, 7 J. Bax. (Tenu.) 212; Foster's Appeal, 74 Pa. St. 391. See, also, Teat- 
inan v. Woods, 6 Yerg. 20; Gaines v. Catron, 1 Humph. 514; Piper v. Smith, 
1 Head, 93 ; McGrath v, Sinclair, 55 Miss. 89 ; Summey v. Fatton, 1 Wins. (N. 
C.) Ec(. (No. 2) 52. And,in the settlement of the estate of a deceased partner, 
any real estate of the partnership, remaining after the fulfllment of all part- 
nership obligations, is to be treated as realty. Wilcox v. Wilcox, 13 Allen, 
252. Keal estate owned and used by a firm may, however, be deemed per- 
sonalty, not only for purposes of the partnership, but for distribution also, 
when the intention of the partners that it should be so treated appears. In 
the absence of their agreement, express or implied, to this effect, it should only 
be so regarded for the purposes of the partnership, and after these are an- 
swered, the surplus should be held to be real estate for all other purposes. 
Lowe V. Lowe, 13 Bush, 688. See, also, ScTuggs v. Blair, 44 Miss. 406. Com- 
pare Bank of Louisville v. Haie, 8 Bush, 672; Cornwall v. Cornwail,&amp; Bush, 
369. Partnership real estate can only be conveyed as real estate by those 
holding the legal title; and if only one partner executes the deed, whether it 
be in his own name or in the name of the firm, such deed will not convey 
more than the interest of the partner executing the conveyance. Coles v. Cales, 
15 Johns. 159; Jackson v. Stanford, 19 Ga. 14; Davis v. Christian, 15 Gratt. 
11; Anderson v. Tompkins, 1 Brock. 456; Willey v. Carter, 4 La. Ann. 56; 
Arnold v. Stecenson, 2 Nev. 234 ; Bonaldson v. Bank of Cape Fear, 1 Dev. Eq. 
103; Goddard v. Renner, 57 Ind. 532. 
Partnership real estate must, like other partnership assets, be first applied 
to the satisfaction of the partnership debts. Matlock v. Matlock, S'Ind. 403 ; 
Win^low V. ChiffelU, 1 Harp. Ch. 25; Hunter v. Martin, 2 Rich. 541; Ovm-- 
holt's Appeal, 12 Pa. St. 222; Marvin v. Trumhull, Wright^ 386; Bryant v. 
Hunter, 6 Bush, 75; Cornwall v. Cornwall, Id. 369; Nat. Bank of Metropolis 
V. Sprague, 20 N. J. Eq. 13; Uhler v. Semple, Id. 288. The doctrine, however, 
that a separate debt of one partner shall not be paid out of the partnership 
property till all the partnership debts are paid, is said to be applicable only 
where the prihciples of equity are invoked to interfere in the distribution of 
the partnership property among the creditors. Mittnight v. Smith, 17 IT. J. 
Eq. 259. See, also, Qillaspy v. Peck, 46 Iowa, 461. 
As the ordinary creditors of an individual have no lien on his property, and 
cannot prevent him from disposing of it as he pleases, so the ordinary cred- 
itors of a firm have no lien on the property of the firm,so as to be able to pre- 
vent it from parting with that property to whomsoever it chooses. 2 Lind- 
ley, Part. (Ewell's Ed.) *654, 655, and cases cited in note. Partners have the 
power, therefore, while the partnership assets remain under their control, to 
appropriate any portion of them to pay or secure their individual debts. A 
mortgage, given by them to secure individual debts, fairly due, is not rendered 
void by the mere fact that it operates to give individual debts a preference&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8fyya7gemwjzqeptdt13mob3z3xnx0p</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/1</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702343</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133043</id>
      <parentid>8169679</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (31)</comment>
      <origin>15133043</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="277" sha1="tqo81ggr7rk4n1j3jqrknr2upamhmbk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;National Reporter System. United States Series. 
THE FEDERAL REPORTEK 
VOL. 10. 
CASES ARGUED AND DETERMUED 
tNTHB 
CIRCUIT AND DISTRICT COURTS 
OF THE 
UNITED STATES. 
FEBRUARY— APBIL, 1882. 
EOBEET DESTY, Editou. 
SAINT PAUL: 
yntSI PUBLI8HING COUPANT. 
1882.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tqo81ggr7rk4n1j3jqrknr2upamhmbk</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/16</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702364</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133046</id>
      <parentid>8169745</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTKB → PORTER, removed: � (17)</comment>
      <origin>15133046</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2546" sha1="e6yyi6kfm5ce3rvu7emf5p5q5kv8e52" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;i FEDERAL REPORTER. 
practice it was usual to examine witnesses abroad by written inter- 
rogatories and cross-interrogatories. 
The provision of rule 68, for taking testimony in an equity case, 
after it is at issue, by deposition, according to the acts of congress, 
is still in force. Under sections 863 and 1750 of the Revised Stat- 
utes, depositions de bene esse in civil causes may be taken in a 
foreign country by any secretary of legation or consular officer. The 
mode of taking such depositions under sections 863, 864, and 865 is 
by oral questions put at the time, if desired, and not necessarily by 
written interrogatories given to the officer before commeneing the 
taking. It is the same mode provided for by the amendment to rule 
67. As, after either party bas given notice to the other that he 
desires the evidence to be adduced in the cause to be taken orally, 
the testimony is not, except for special reasons, to be taken other- 
wise, so, by analogy, where testimony in a foreign country can be 
taken orally, it ought not, except for special reasons, to be taken 
otherwise. What would in any given case be sufficient special rea- 
sons must be left to be decided in each case. In the present case the 
defendants are, I think, entitled to cross-examine the plaintiff orally. 
There is no reason why his direct examination should not be taken 
on written interrogatories if desired. 
Lewis v. Hitchcock and another. 
{District Court, S. D. New York. January 26, 1882.) 
Civil Rights Act — Dbmurkbr — Iiw — Restaurant — Videltcet. 
In an action to recover a penalty of $500 under section 2 of the civil righta 
act of March 1, 1875, (18 8t. at Large, part 3, p. 335, Sup. Rev. St. 148,) the 
plaintift' must allege and prove that he is a &quot; citizen.&quot; 
Where the penalt}' is claimed fOr a deniai of the privileges of an &quot; inn,&quot; 
under the first section of that act, the complaint will be held sufficient on de- 
murrer if it alleges a deniai of those privileges &quot; at a certain inn, to-wit, a 
restaurant at No. 9 Chatliamstreet.&quot; The word &quot; restaurant &quot; hasuo flxedand 
certain legal meaning, and a place known by that name may or may not be an 
inn ; i. e., provide lodgings as well as food for guests. 
The description of the place in question under a viddieet is not repugnant to 
the previoua description as an inn ; if it were, semble it would be disregarded. 
Demurrer to Complaint. 
Peter Mitchell and John F. Quarles, for plaintiff. 
JV. J. Dittenhoefer and Albert Englehardt, for defendants.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>e6yyi6kfm5ce3rvu7emf5p5q5kv8e52</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/24</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702376</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133065</id>
      <parentid>8169833</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:00:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133065</origin>
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      <text bytes="2370" sha1="nyqh50do14897jh67d73gso3fxs3vac" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;12 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
from a third party, a stranger to the suit, because that cannot be said 
to be in the hands of the ofucer in any way. If that construction 
should be given to the law, it would be necessary that the officer 
should determine the value of the indebtedness ; the amount and 
value of it. Now, the garnishee is not required to answer before 
him; it appears to be optional with him whether he will answer be- 
fore the officer or corne into court. 
Mr. Wells. Your honor is mistaken about that provision. If the 
party garnished don't give a statemeat of what is in bis hands he is 
treated as in contempt. 
The Court. Well, I doubt whether that is the construction to be put 
upon the statute. But if that be so, the garnishee may not answer 
truly; he may deny; and if he admits the indebtedness, he may not 
admit the full amount. When he denies, it is competent for the 
plaintifi to meet his deniai, and goto trial upon fhe issue so joined. 
And if he admits an indebtedness, and the plaintiff contends that he 
owes more than he admits, he may deny that also, and go to trial upon 
that, and compel him to pay the full amount that he may be able to 
show is due from him. So that if the garnishee be compelled to 
answer before the officer, and does answer, it cannot be said that his 
answer shall be taken to be true for the purpose of fixing the amount 
of the bond to be given to the officer in case he be.discharged. 
Indecd, it seems to me there is no provision which will be ade- 
quate and sufficient to secure the plaintifi for the .discharge of a gar- 
nishee, except it be one to pay the judgment, such as is often found 
in these statutes regulating attachments; and I think it is very clear, 
as the statute stands here, that the garnishees are not within its 
provisions. If the garnishee pays over the money in his hands to 
the sheriff, then it may be said that that is money collected by the 
sheriff within the provisions of section 111; and unquestionably when 
the garnishee pays, the defendant may by giving bond as provided 
in these sections have that money released and surrendered to him. 
But I think the sections as they stand are applicable only to prop- 
erty which is in the hands of the officer, either money or goods; 
something which he actually holds in his possession. 
The motion will be denied.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nyqh50do14897jh67d73gso3fxs3vac</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/28</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702382</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133069</id>
      <parentid>8169877</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:00:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED, EDEBAL  → EDERAL ,  EEPO →  REPO, POKTER → PORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
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      <text bytes="2364" sha1="0pv2udkce27051bzsb6b86iechnc96v" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;16 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
it is expected to stop, as the train slows up and immediately before 
it actually stops, are in the habit of going out on the platform of the 
car, and often, as was the fact in this case, leaving the steps of the 
car. Admitting that there was a sudden jerk of the car, with more 
or less violence, was there such negligence on the part of the peti- 
titioner as to relieve the receiver from all liability in the case '? We 
need make no controversy as to the position of the receiver, or of his 
liability as such, and may assume, as to the rights of the petitioner, 
that he stands in the place of the Company. We think it must be 
stated, as a sound proposition in law, that wherever passengers under- 
take to leave a train under such circumstances as these, before it bas 
actually stopped, they take the risk upon themselves. If they choose 
to act in accordanee with the promptings caused by their own impa- 
tience, and to leave the train before it can be done with safety, the 
risk is theirs. In this case, in addition to the statement that has 
been made of the actual condition of the petitioner at the time, there 
is reason to believe that his attention was withdrawn from what he 
was about to do by conversation with another person, who was then 
or had just been talking to him. 
It has been decided by the supreme court of this state that a pas- 
senger has no right to attempt to alight from a train of cars when in 
motion; and if he undertakes to do so, without the knowledge or 
direction of any employe of the company, it is at his peril. 0. e M. 
R. Co. v. Stratton, 78 111. 88 ; El. Cent. R. Co. v. Slation, 54 111. 133 ; 
CM. e Alton R. Co. v. Randolph, 53 111. 510; Chi. e N. W. R. Co. v. 
Scates, 90 111. 586. 
It would seem to follow, from the proposition just stated, that a 
railroad passenger cannot recover for any injury caused as this one 
was, although it may have been occasioned by the combined act of 
himself in thus attempting to alight from the train, and the jerk of 
the car. It was his duty not to expose himself to such a contingency, 
and to remain in the car before thus subjecting himself to danger ; 
and it also follows that those who have the management of a train 
are not bound to assume that the passengers will attempt to alight 
from a car until it has actually stopped.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0pv2udkce27051bzsb6b86iechnc96v</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/86</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702446</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133119</id>
      <parentid>8170513</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133119</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2803" sha1="j6h80qfvwql8si9z168f35vqrs018nt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;74 FEDERAL BBPORTER. 
relief where additional circumstances constitute sufficient grounds for 
interposition, and always where there is encouragement, misrepre- 
sentation, or ignorance taken advantage of by the party receiving the 
payment. Bisph. Eq. § 188. Whether the facts here would be held 
to show a mistaks of law as to the legal effect of the supposed request 
for delay, or of facts as to the existence of a valid request, would be a 
nice question if it were necessary to decide it. But, on all the above 
authorities, an agent or attorney employed to manage his client's 
affairs, who, whether by ignorance or design, leads that client to sup- 
pose that, as a matter of law, he can safely make a payment to him- 
self, cannot relieve himself from liability to refund on the ground 
that there has been a voluntary payment made under a mutual mis- 
take of law. 
The executer here had a right to a correct judgment from Joel L. 
Pulliam on that question, and he cannot protect himself against an 
erroneous judgment on sueh a ground. In Lupton v. Lupton, 2 Johns. 
Ch. 626, it was ruled that a legatee receiving more than his share 
must refund in favor of others. David v. Frowd, 1 Myl. &amp; K. 200; 
Williams v. Gibbes, 17 How, 239, 255 ; 2 Williams, Ex'rs, 1244 ; Orr v. 
Kaines, 2 Ves. Sr. 194. It was ruled in Johnson v. Moseby, (MSS. 
opinion, Knoxville, Sept. 1880,) 1 South. Law J. (N. S.) 802, that 
a crediter who, without an iudemnity bond, received more than his 
share, could not upou subsequent insolvency, at the instance of other 
creditors, be oompelled to refund the exeess over his pro rata; while 
in Ewing v. Morey, 3 Lea. 381, where, in insolvency proceedings, a 
crediter received more than his share, he was held to be a trustee as 
to the excesB for the others. But in these cases there was a valid 
and subsisting claim; here there was no valid claim, but, on the 
contrary, one that was extinguished. The distinction is obvions. 
Nor need I conaider the question whether the debt was really extin- 
guished or remained so far obligatory that it would support a pay- 
ment. There is undoubtedly a principle (and it was that misled 
me at the former hearing) that a debt barred by the statute of lim- 
itations or discharged in bankruptcy, will, nevertheless, support a pay- 
ment, or a new promise to pay, after the bar has attached or the 
discharge has taken eflfect. But this must be confined to the ordi- 
nary statute of limitations, and cannot be said of the statutes in 
favor of dead men's estates. As to a new promise to pay, the execu- 
ter or administrator cannot make a valid one after the bar of these 
statutes has attached, and it is settled that he cannot waive this 
statute, while he may the ordinary statute of limitations. Batson v.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>j6h80qfvwql8si9z168f35vqrs018nt</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/128</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702489</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133044</id>
      <parentid>8169710</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: witb →  with,  EEPORT →  REPORT, AIi  → AL , BAL RE → RAL RE, removed: � (12)</comment>
      <origin>15133044</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2953" sha1="bwszikgcmt3ky1w8id1wmfpvwini2vk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;116 TEDERAL REPORTER. 
winding up of the business was in a considerable measure entrusted 
to the assigner, who was employed by the assignee ; but I do not lind 
suiScient evidence to show that the assigner was eitheroverpaid for his 
services, or that the assignment was made, or was intended to be made, 
subsidiary to bis own purposes. Whatever errors existed seem to me 
errors in management rather than in anything belonging to the as- 
signment in its inception. The plaintiff shows varions eircumstances 
raising doubts of good faith, but he called the defendants as bis own 
witnesses. He is bound by their answers where not shown erroneous, 
and they have given their answers to such suspicions eircumstances. 
The proofs do not go beyond suspicion, and this is not enough. The 
bonds required from the assignee f urnish security to the creditera for a 
true account by him of the assets coming to his hands, or with which 
he is justly chargeable, and for the faithful discharge of his duties, 
I do not think I should be justified, either upon thelawor the facts, 
in setting the assignment aside as fraudulent a'gainst creditors, and 
the bill must therefore be dismissed, with costs. 
Allen &amp; Ce. v. Thompson. 
(District Court, W.D. Tennessee. January 7, 1882.) 
Baitkrbptct — Vacating Discharge — Want op Notice — Rbv. St. } 5109 — 
JUEKDICTION — WHAT PETITION ShOULD SHOW. 
If no notice be given to the creditors of the separate application for a dis- 
charge, as required hy Rev. 8t. § 6109, the certificate of discharge will be 
vacated on petition of the creditors. The district court has inherent power, 
by necessary implication, from the statuts to entertain a petition for that 
purpose. It seems that the petition should show a ground for withholdlng the 
discharge if set aside, but it was not for special reason required in this case. 
Same — Partners— Opposing Dischargb — Want of Jurisdiction in the 
Court — Bankkupt Not a Resident nor Doing Business in the District 
— Objbctioii, When Must bb Takbn — When Waived. 
The creditors, when notified that bankruptcy proceedings have been com- 
menced, must promptly, by a motion or petition to vacate the adjudication, 
object to the jurisdiction of the court, or the objection is waived. They can- 
not prove their debts, appoint an assignee, distribute the estate, use the 
proceeds for their beneflt, and for the flrst time object to the jurisdiction 
in opposition to the discharge. An application to vacate the certificate for 
want of jurisdiction of the original bankruptcy petition by copartners, be- 
cause one of the members of the flrm did not reside within, or the flrm do 
business within, the district, as required by statute, was denied. These facts 
will be presumed in favor of the jurisdiction, however the truth may be, 
especially if the petition defectively states enough from which jurisdictional 
facts may be inferred.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bwszikgcmt3ky1w8id1wmfpvwini2vk</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/136</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702497</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133045</id>
      <parentid>8169719</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: iduai  → idual , PORTEB → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133045</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2645" sha1="lzlnjbtuuaybs6tk8mfbx5xhcehaou6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;124 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
I N. B. E. 386; S. C. 1 Low. 237; Re Goodfellow, 3 N. B. R. 452; 
S. C. 1 Low. 510; Re Little, 2 N. B. R. 294; S. C. 3 Ben. 25; Re 
Dapee.e N.B. R. 89; Re Penn, 8 N. B. R. 582; S. C. 4 Ben. 99; 
Re Fogerty e Gerrity, 4 N. B. R. 149; S. C. 1 Sawy. 234; Re Thomas, 
II N. B. E. 330; Re Bergeron, 12 N. B. R. 385; Re Griffith, 18 N- 
B. R. 510; Re Hamlin, 16 N. B. R. 522, 528. 
Some of these cases would support the position that the discharge 
may be opposed or vacated by showing that the jurisdictional facts 
ayen-ed in the original bankruptcy petition are untrue, but I am net 
willing to assent to that doctrine, and must, for reasons I have stated, 
hold that the creditors, when they were served with notice of the filing 
of the petition, should have then promptly taken such steps as were 
necessary to complain of the jurisdiction, and that they cannot go on 
to the end and set up such an objection for the first time in opposi- 
tion to the discharge, or by petition to vacate it. The ouly doubt I have 
in the matter of vacating this certificate for want of notice of the sep- 
arate application for the discharge under section 5109, Rey. St., is 
■whether sound practice does not require that a creditor moving to 
vacate it must, in analogy to our state practice in certiorari smAcoram 
nobis cases, show that he has been injured by setting out facts from 
which it will appear that the bankrupt is not entitled to a discharge on 
Bome ground the statute recognizes as a reason forwithholdingit. Why 
should this disoharge be vacated only to grant another, or should the 
creditor be permitted to enter into a fruitless opposition? It is, no 
doubt, a better practice to require such a showing, and if I were to pre- 
Bcribe a rule of practice in such cases it would be so framed; but 
here there are the appearances of a fraud on the court in procuring this 
certificate, and inasmuch as this bankrupt never, so far as I can 
nowsee, filed any schedule of his individual assets and liabilities, nor 
gave any notice to these creditors, it may be that there should be 
steps taken to compel such schedules, appoint an assignee, and 
administer the estate ; and in the progress of that administration 
there may be developments for which a discharge would be withheld. 
I shall not, therefore, in this case, require the petitioner to set out 
grounds for which the discharge should be withheld, but if on the 
hearing the want of notice should be shown as alleged, will, for that 
reason alone, reopen the case by vacating the discharge. 
Overrule the demurrer in accordance with this opinion.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lzlnjbtuuaybs6tk8mfbx5xhcehaou6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/160</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702521</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133047</id>
      <parentid>8169746</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, removed: � (10)</comment>
      <origin>15133047</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2699" sha1="q2xe4nw1j6gtcflc3qzq4kk9lamnuiy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;148 FEDERAI* REPORTBR. 
aa it wag not fraudaient, and did not entrap or mislead the defend- 
ants, will not vitiate the eontract, although the actual measurements 
oxceeded the representation by some 100 tons. See Ashburner v. 
Balchen, 3 Selden, 262; Barker v. Windle, 6 Ellis &amp; Black, 675; 
Thomas v. Clarke, 2 Starkie, i50. 
The authorities cited by defendants' proctor all cover cases where 
the misrepresentations affected the time of receivhig or delivering the 
cargo, or of the sailing or arrivai of the veasel, which may well enter 
into the object and consideration of the eontract. To my mind it is 
clear that the defendants were in default for not complying with their 
eontract, and are iiable for the damages resulting. What is the rule 
of damages is to me a very serions question. 
The libellants claim that, as the eontract was entered into in Lou- 
isiana, the law of Louisiana forms part of the eontract, and under 
that law (Civil Code, arts. 2117-2129) the full amount of the stip- 
ulated penalty, the estimated amount of freight, is claimed. The 
defendants claim that the charter-party is an admiralty eontract, to 
be enforced and construed by the settled principles of admiralty law ; 
wherever the eontract is made, that it is usually made on land, must 
be made somewhere, but wherever made, does not change or affect 
the principles of admiralty law which a court of admiralty enforces. 
And they daim, under the admiralty and commercial law, that the 
stipulated penalty in this case in the charter-party should not be 
treated as liquidated damages, but as a mere covenant to pay actual 
damages. 
The learned proctors on each side have made strong arguments, 
well supported by authorities, — that for the libellant being particu- 
larly logieal and forcible, and almost compelling conviction, but for 
the harsh resulta following its application. And it might be here 
noticed that under the Louisiana law, as claimed, it is only where there 
is a total breach that the total amount of the penalty can be exacted. 
SeeEev. Civil Code, art. 2127. 
The rule of damages as claimed by the defendants is the more 
equitable. It is the rule that prevails in the commercial world, and 
ia the one recognized in all the text-books. See 1 Parsons, Adm. 
Law. 247, 248; Story, Cont. § 1022; Sedgw. Dam. 436, § 301; Conk- 
ling, Adm. verho &quot;Affreightments;&quot; Abbott, Ship. 285. 
The harsh rule claimed by libellant may be, and I am inclined to 
think is, the law of Louisiana, (Kev. Civil Code, arts. 2117 et seq.,) 
and in her courts, or on the law side of this circuit court, I might, 
in proper cases, enforce it ; but sitting in admiralty, enforcing admi-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>q2xe4nw1j6gtcflc3qzq4kk9lamnuiy</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/188</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702549</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133048</id>
      <parentid>13412290</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: wlie →  whe (2),  FBD →  FED,  EEPORT →  REPORT, EPORTEB → EPORTER, EDEBAL  → EDERAL, removed: � (13)</comment>
      <origin>15133048</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2676" sha1="h8jnun4mhyo6ui0nul6tp8yla7grgoh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;176 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
ists who were accused of maintaining the doctrine that whenever an 
end to be attained is right, any means necessary to attain it would 
be justifiable. They were accused of practicing such a process of 
reasoning as would justify every sin in the decalogue when occasion 
required it. They incurred the odium of nearly all Christendom in 
consequence. But the mode of reasoning attributed to them would 
seem to be impliedly, if not expressly, reproduced in the papers writ- 
ten by the defendant and shown in evidence : 
&quot;It would be a right and patriotic thing to unite the republican party and 
save the republic. Whatever means may be necessary for that object would 
be justifiable. The death of the president by violence is the only and there- 
fore the necessary means of accomplishing it, and therefore it is justifiable. 
Being justifiable as a political necessity, it is not murder.&quot; 
Such seems to be the substance of the ideas which be puts forth 
to the world as his justification in these papers. If this is the whole 
of his position, it presents one of those vagaries of opinion for which 
the law has no toleration, and which furnishes no excuse whatever 
for crime. 
This, however, is not all that the defendant now claims. 
There is, undoubtedly, a form of insane delusion, consisting of a 
belief by a person that he is inspired by the Almighty to do sonie- 
thing, — to kill another, for example, — and this delusion may be so 
Btrong as to impel him to the commission of a crime. 
The defendant, in this case, claims that he labored under such a 
delusion and impulse, or pressure, as he calls it, at the time of the 
-assassination. 
The prisoner's unsworn declarations, since the assassination, on 
this subject, in his own favor, are, of course, not evidence, and are 
not to be considered by you. A man's language, when sincere, may 
be evidence of the condition of his mind when it is uttered, but it is 
not evidence in his favor of the facts declared by him, or as to his 
previous acts or condition. He can never manufacture evidence in 
this way in his own exoneration. 
It is true that the law allows a prisoner to testify in his own be- 
half, and thereby makes his sworn testimony on the witness-stand 
legal evidence, to be received and considered by you, but it leaves 
the weight of that evidence to be determined by you also. 
I need hardly say to you that no verdict could safely be rendered 
upon the evidence of the accused party only, under such circum- 
stances. If it were recognized, by such a verdict, that a man on 
trial for his life could secure an acquittai by simply testifying, him-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>h8jnun4mhyo6ui0nul6tp8yla7grgoh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/190</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702551</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133049</id>
      <parentid>8169780</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDBB →  FEDER,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, ORTEE → ORTER, removed: � (12)</comment>
      <origin>15133049</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2595" sha1="69pgizwr3tbbq2yd139i9jfaytebaa5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;178 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
stalwart mng of the republican party were delusive, and that these 
men were denouncing his deed, and that then, for the first time, 
when he saw the necessity of making out some defence, he broached 
this theory of inspiration and irresistible pressure, forcing him to the 
commission of the act. 
It this be true, you would have nothing to indioate the real motives 
of the act except what I have already considered. Whether it is true 
or not, you must determine from all the evidence. 
It is true that the term &quot;inspiration&quot; does not appear in the papers 
first written by the defendant, nor in those delivered to Gen. Eey- 
nolds, except at the close of the one dated July 19th, in which he 
says that the inspiration is -worked out of him; though what that 
means is not clear. It is true, also, that this was after, according 
to Gen. Eeynolds, he had been informed how he was being de- 
nounced by the stalwart republicans. 
In one of the urst papers I have referred to, the president's removal 
was called an act of God, as were his nomination and election; but 
whether this meant anything more than that it was an act of God, in 
the sense in which all great events are said to be ordered by Provi- 
dence, is not clear. 
Dr. Noble Young testifies that a few days after defendant's ou- 
trance into the prison — a time not definitely fixed — he told him he 
was inspired to do the act, but qualified it by saying that if the pres- 
ident should die he would be oonfirmed in his belief that it was an 
inspiration ; but if not, perhaps not. 
The emphatic manner in which, in both the papers delivered to Gen. 
Eeynolds, the defendant declared that the assassination was his own 
concept'ion and execution, and whether right or wrong he took the entire 
respousiblity, his detailed description of the manner in which the 
idea occurred to him, and how it was strengthened by his reading, 
etc., and his omission to state anything about a direct inspiration 
from the Deity at that time, are all circumstances to be considered 
by you on the question whether he then held that idea. 
On the other hand, you have the prisoner's testimony in which he 
nmv asserts that he conceived himself to be under an inspiration at 
the time. He also advanced this claim in his interviews with the 
expert witnesses shortly before the trial. 
It becomes necessary, then, to examine the case on the assumption 
that the prisoner's testimony may be true, and to ascertain from his 
declaration and testimony what kind of inspiration it is which he 
thus asserts.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>69pgizwr3tbbq2yd139i9jfaytebaa5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/192</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702553</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133082</id>
      <parentid>8169782</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EPORTEB → EPORTER, j'  → y ,  PBD →  FED,  FEDEBA →  FEDERA, DERAL BE → DERAL RE, removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15133082</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2646" sha1="2o609fqkunpk5iyad3symzqu04519l8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;180 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
the idea kept pressing on him; that he waa horrified; kept throwing 
it off ; did not want to give it attention ; tried to shake it off ; but it 
kept growing upon him, so that at the end of two weeks his mind was 
thoroughly fixed as to the necessity for the president's removal and the 
divinity of the inspiration. He never had the slightest doubt of the 
divinity of the inspiration from the first of June. He kept praying 
about it, and that if it was not the Lord's will that he should remove 
the president there would be some way by which His providence 
would intereept the act. He kept reading the newspapers, and his 
inspiration was being confirined every day, and since the first day of 
June he has never had a doubt about the divinity of the act. 
In the cross-examination he said : If the political necessity had not 
existed the president would not have been removed — there would have 
been no necessity for the inspiration. About the first of June he made 
up his mind as to the inspiration of the act, and the necessity for it ; 
from the sixteenth of June to the second of July he prayed that if he 
was wrong, the Deity would stop him by His providence ; in May it 
was an embryo inspiration — a mere impression that possibly it might 
have to be done ; he was doubting whether it was the Deity that was 
inspiring him, and was praying that the Deity would not let him 
make a mistake about it; and that at last it was the Deity, and 
not he, who killed the president. 
Again, the confirmation that it was the Deity, and not the devil, 
who inspired the idea of removing the president, came to him in the 
fact that the newspapers were all denouncing the president. He saw 
that the political situation required the removal of the president, and 
that is the way he knew that his intended act was inspired by the 
Deity; but for the political situation, he would have thought that it 
came from the devil. 
This is the substance of all that appears in the case on the sub- 
ject of inspiration. 
It is proper to call your attention to some variations in the prison- 
er's statements at different times. 
In two of the papers of July he says it was his own conception, and 
he took the entire responsibility. 
In the conversations reported by Dr. Gray, in November, he did 
not connect the Deity with the inception of the act. The conception 
was his own, and the inspiration came after he made up his mind ; 
but he does not explain what he meant by the inspiration, unless it 
was that it was a pressure upon him, or, as he expresses it, the 
duty of doing it was pressing upon him.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2o609fqkunpk5iyad3symzqu04519l8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/194</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702555</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133050</id>
      <parentid>8169784</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: whieh → which,  tbr →  thr,  FEDBB →  FEDER, EDERAIi  → EDERAL , POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15133050</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2533" sha1="3ibxrx77u4fr0ossjgmqbiywfzj5mb9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;182 FEDERAL BBPORTER. 
sliows a present knowledge of the wrongfulness of the act in itself ; but 
this declaration is of value on this question of knowledge, only in 
case you should believe that he had the same appreciation of the act 
at the time of its commission and disbelieve bis story about the in- 
spiration. 
I have said nearly all that I need say on the subject of insane 
delusion. 
The answer of the English judges, that I have referred to, bas not 
been deemed entirely satisfactory, and the courts have settled down 
upon the question of knowledge of right and wrong as to the particu- 
lar act, or rather the capacity to know it, as the test of responsibility ; 
and the question of insane delusion is only important as it throws 
light upon the question of knowledge of, or capacity to know, the 
right and wrong. 
If a man is under an insane delusion that another is attempting 
bis life, and kills him in self-defence, he does not know that he is 
committing an unnecessary homicide. If a man insanely believes 
that he has a command from the Almighty to kill, it is difficult to 
understand how sueh a man can know that it is wrong for him to do 
it. A man may have some other insane delusion which would be 
quite consistent with a knowledge that such an act is wrong, — such as, 
that he had received an injury, — and he might kill in revenge for it 
knowing that it would be wrong. 
And I have dwelt upon the question of insane delusion, simply 
beca use evidence relating to that is evidence touching the defendant's 
power, or want of power, from mental disease, to distinguish between 
right and wrong, as to the act doue by him, which is the broad ques- 
tion for you to determine, and beeause that is the kind of evidence on 
this question which is relied on by the defence. 
It has been argued with great force, on the part of the defendant, 
that there are a great many things in bis conduct which could never 
be expected of a sane man, and which are only explainable on the 
theory of insanity. The very extravagance of bis expectations in 
connection with this deed — that he would be protected by the men 
he was to benefit, would be applauded by the whole country when his 
motives were made known — has been dwelt upon as the strongest evi- 
dence of unsoundness. 
Whether this and other strange things in his career are really indic- 
ative of partial insanity, or can be accounted for by ignorance of men, 
exaggerated egotism, or perverted moral sense, might be a question&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3ibxrx77u4fr0ossjgmqbiywfzj5mb9</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/218</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702579</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133051</id>
      <parentid>7246675</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: whieh → which, PORTKB → PORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133051</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2835" sha1="ob9mnu5qx61jnzefm3xmapfsa632bns" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;206 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
It necessarily results from this that all proceedings in the state 
court, after a due demand for removal by either party, are cwamnon 
judice. Its jurisdiotion is lost.and no order by that court — I say it 
with great personal respect forthelearned judge who made the order 
in this case — can beinvoked as ground for an application to remand. 
The suggestion was made at the hearing that if I could not find 
grounds for remanding the case, on the proceedings or action of the 
state court, I could at least authorize the defendants in this court to 
withdraw the appearance heretofore entered in the Hudson circuit, 
and thus allow the outside creditors to corne in and share in the pro- 
ceeds of the attached property. But there are two difficulties in the 
way : the first is that all the presumptions in the case lead to the con- 
clusion that the appearance was authorized in efiect if not in express 
terms; the second is that the attaching creditors have acquired an 
exclusive lien upon the property under the attachment act of the 
state of New Jersey, of which this coi.rt bas no right, if it had the 
disposition to deprive them. 
The provisions of sections 14, 35, 38, and 39 of the &quot;Act for the 
relief of creditors against absconding and absent debtors,&quot; (Eev. St. 
N. J. 42,) show that when the defendant in attachment enters an 
appearance to the suit without the execution of the bond prescribed by 
the thirty-third section of the act, the property seisied by virtue of the 
wriii romains in the custody of the ofi&amp;cer and under the control of 
the court, and is held for the satisfaction of the claims of the plain- 
tiff in attachment, and of such persons as, before the appearance, 
have entered rules in the minutes of the court to be admitted as 
creditors under such attachment. AU other creditors are then ex- 
cluded from participating in the proceeds of the res until the plain- 
tifif and such applying creditors are paid in full. 
This may seem inequitable and unjust to other meritorious credit- 
ors, who have for any reasons refrained from becoming parties to 
the proceedings, but it is the reward which the law gives to the dili- 
gent. When the defendant corporation signed the petition for re- 
moval, and executed the bond, and gave instructions to the attorney 
to take the necessary steps to effect the removal of the suit, into this 
court, it was probably not aware of the legal consequences of the act, 
and had no thought of depriving other creditors, who had not become 
parties to the attachment proceedings, of sharing in the pro rata dis- 
tribution of the assets. In other words, a mistake in law was made ; 
but I do not understand that I have any power to corre et mistakes 
in law, if by so doing I take away from other innocent parties any&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ob9mnu5qx61jnzefm3xmapfsa632bns</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/226</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702587</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133052</id>
      <parentid>8169818</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:42:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: whieh → which,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15133052</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2691" sha1="jz0x8vksxjzbgxna2xizlgfst6bjsxb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;214 .1. . FEDERAL REPOBTKB. '' 
this business, that these packages should be in the immediate charge 
of an agent or messenger of the person or company engaged in it; 
and to refuse permission to this agent to accompany these packages 
on steam-boats or raiiroads in which they are carried, and to deny 
them the right to the control of them while so carried, is destruc- 
tive to the business, and of the rights which the public have to the use 
of the raiiroads in this class of transportation. 
3. I am of the opinion that when express matter is so confided to 
the charge of an agent or messenger the railroad company is no 
longer liable to all the obligations of a common carrier, but that, when 
loss or injury occurs, the liability depends upon the exercise of due 
care, skill, and diligence on the part of the railroad company, 
4. That under these circumstances there does not exist, on the part 
of the railroad company, the right to open and inspect -11 packages 
so carried, especially -when they have been duly closed or sealed up 
by their owners or by the express carrier. 
5. I am of the opinion that it is the duty of every railroad company 
,to provide 8uch conveyances by special cars, or otherwise, attached 
to thejr freight or passenger trains, as are required for the safe and 
proper transportation of this express matter on their roads, and that 
the use of these facilities should be extended on equal terms to 
all who are actually and usually engaged in the express business. 
If the number of persons claiming the right to engage in this 
business at the same time, on the same road, should become op- 
pressive, other considerations might prevail ; but, until such a State 
of aiiairs is shown to be actually in existence in good faith, it is 
unneeessary to consider it. 
6. This express matter and the person in charge of it should be 
carried by the railroad company at fair and reasonable rates of com- 
pensation, and where the parties concerned cannot agree upon what 
that is, it is a question for the courts to decide. 
7. I am of the opinion that a court of equity in a case properly 
made out has the authority to compel the railroad oompanies to earry 
this express matter, and to perform the duties in that respect which 
1 have already indicated, and to make such orders and decrees, and 
to enforce them by the ordinary methods in use, necessary to that 
end. 
8. While I doubt the right of the court to fix in advance the pre- 
cise rates which the express companies shall pay and the railroad 
companies shall accept, I have no doubt of its right to compel the 
performance of the service by the railroad company, and after it is&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jz0x8vksxjzbgxna2xizlgfst6bjsxb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/232</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702593</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133064</id>
      <parentid>14558851</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:00:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL, TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (20)</comment>
      <origin>15133064</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2271" sha1="h4grujchfm0riepcjusxho856uz74nk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;220 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
A very analogous case of relief is found in National Bank of N. A. v. 
Norwich Savings Soc. 37 Conn. 444. There a decree of foreclosure 
had been made by a court having j'urisdiction, and a second mortga- 
gee had notice by mail, as required by the statute, and the decree 
recited that notice had been given ; but, as it had not been received, the 
foreclosure was opened after the full time allowed by the decree had 
expired. 
There are many cases where statutory foreclosures are held condu- 
sive in equity but they are cases in which there was actual notice, 
and the only question was whether, when a statute bas given ample 
time for redemption, by parties having notice, anything short of fraud 
should be permitted to excuse a failure to act within the ample time 
allowed by statute. 
I hold, therefore, that the plaintiff may amend within 60 days, on 
these terms ; that she shall pay all costs to the date of this decree, 
and a reasonable attorney fee to the counsel who conducted the case 
for the defendants. If this is done, she may redeem against Graf- 
fam and Doble. 
Interlocutory decree acccordingly. 
Caerieb V. TowN OF Shawangunk.* 
{Circuit Court, S. D. New York. February 9, 1883.) 
, MuNiciFAL Bonds — Bona Flde FunciiASKR — Constructive Kotice of In- 
VALIDITT. 
Apurchaser before maturity of municipal bonds payable to bearer, is iiot, ipso 
facto, chargeable with constructive notice of their alleged invalidity becuuse he 
undertook to satisfy himself by investigation that the condition necessary for 
their issuance had been fuifllled, and did not rely on their face. Sucli knowl- 
edge, when there are no marks of inflrmity on the face of the bonds aud no 
want of powor in the municipality, la a question of fact. 
. Same — Samb — RpjciTAL op Fdlpilmbnt of Conditions. 
Where the offleers issuing municipal bonds are invested with power to de- 
cide whether the conditions precedent to their issue have been complied with, 
their recitals to that eftect in the bonds, when held by a bonafide purchasei, 
are conclusive. 
Motion for new trial. 
Charles C. Leeds and Charles H. Winfield, for plaintiff. 
D. M. De Witt, for defendant. 
*Keported l)y S. Nelson White, Esq., of the Nev/ York bar.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>h4grujchfm0riepcjusxho856uz74nk</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/242</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702603</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133066</id>
      <parentid>12964694</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:00:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tp  →  to ,  EBPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133066</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2740" sha1="lg6a6xefe73i6kgjkd6y0bn0yv150m1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;230 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
at law, and for their exclusive benefit ; since in making a contract for 
the payment of money to &quot;devisees&quot; the decedent clearly excluded 
the other classes for whose benefit alone he could have contracted 
according to the articles of incorporation. Since, then, the adminis- 
trator must, if he collects the money at all, proceed upon the ground 
that it is assets of the estate, it is clear that the creditors must be 
first satisfied — a resuit manifestly inadmissible. No one, surely, will 
seriously contend that the creditors of the decedent are entitled to 
payment ont of the fund in question. 
Why the decedent did not by will appoint some beneficiary, some 
devisee, to receive his bounty under the contract in question we know 
not. He was himself a Mason, and a member of the benevolent 
association represented by the defendant corporation. He may, in 
making the contract, have had in contemplation some individual 
whom he purposed to make the object of his bounty, and he may have 
changed his mind with respect to the object of his intended bounty. 
He may have made up his mind that his associates should not be 
called upon to contribute the sums required to fulfil the contract 
•which he had entered into with the corporation. At all events, he 
died without appointing by will any one to receive the money, and 
the only presumption we can indulge in is that he intended not to do 
what he omitted to perform. Can we presume without proof thathe 
failed to appoint devisees, as contemplated by the contract, in conse- 
quence of carelessness or inadvertence ? Is negligence to be pre- 
sumed? 
If B. stipulates with A., upon a consideration flowing from A., to 
pay money to G., howmust A., suingB. upon the contract, assign the 
breach ? Must he not allege the non-payment to C. as the breach of 
the contract ? Would it not be a fatal variance to assign the non- 
payment to A. as the breach of the contract ? And, A. dying, must 
not his administrator, suing at law to enforoe the contract, allege the 
breach to be a non-payment of the money to C. ? The contract pro- 
viding that the money be paid to C, the administrator would certainly 
fail on the ground of variance if he assigned as a breach of the con- 
tract non-payment to any party other than C. So, in the present 
case, the administrator must assign his breach to be the non-payrnent 
to the decedent's devisees, as required by the contract. 
To meet this difSoulty the complainant's counsel suggested in the 
oral argument the analogy between a note payable to the order of the 
payee and the present case. Suppose the payee should die without 
making any order appointing the party to whom payment should be&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lg6a6xefe73i6kgjkd6y0bn0yv150m1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/262</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702623</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133067</id>
      <parentid>8169857</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:00:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: ihe  →  the , AIi  → AL ,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133067</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3564" sha1="d78cooch2qnjp6q0b57ezfvvyon5jzy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;250 J-EDEfiAL REPORTER. 
&quot;In this country the same doctrine has been held substantially in the fol- 
lowing cases: Lehman v. Strasslerger, 2 Woods, 554; Warren v. Hcivitt, 45 Ga. 
501 ; ClarTc v. Foss, 10 Chicago Leg. N. 213. 
&quot;In the case oi Marshall v. Thurston the court says. ' We umiei-stand 
the charge of the lower court to be, in substance, that if the broker knovv- 
ingly assisted the defendant by an advance of money and active agency, 
though net as principal, to gamble in the rise and fall of bonds, no recovery 
can be had; but if the broker merely acted as his,agent in effecting contraets 
between him and third parties for the purchase or sale of bonds on time, the 
defendant and third parties intending to speculate in the rise and fall of 
priees, and defendant suliered losses which were paid by the broker at defend- 
ant's request, or were paid and the payments subsequently ratifled by the 
defendant by executing notes therefor, a recovery can be had. In this view 
the charge is supported by the authorities.' 
&quot;The rule which bas the support of the great weight of authority (what- 
ever may be thought of the policy and morality of the rule) seeins to be as 
follows: If a factor, broker, or commission raerchant be employed by his 
principal to buy or sell commodities for the purpose of speculating on the rise 
and fall of priees merely, and the agent buys or sells in his own nanie, but on 
his principars account, and subsequently, after losses ]iave oecurred in such 
transactions, the agent advances money at his principal's request lo pay such 
losses; or if the agent pay such losses and the principal aftetwards executes 
notes in the agent's favor to cover the aipounts so advanced, the agent may 
recover against his principal the advances so made at his request, or upon the 
notes so executed, notwithstanding the illegal character of the original ven- 
tiire. the promise implied in the one instance and expressed in the other is 
nelther void for want of consideration nor tainted with illegality. It was even 
held in the case of the Planters' Bank v. Union Bank that where the de- 
fendant, in violation of law, had sold bonds for the plaintiff and received the 
proceeds, the plaintiff might recover the amount from the defendant, and 
that the illegal character of the transaction out of which the f und arose was 
no defence. 
&quot;But, on the other hand, if a broker or factor supply his principal with 
funds for the express purpose of enabling him to engage in illegal transac. 
tions, and if he (the agent) conducts the illegal venture in his ovvn name, it 
seems clear that he becomes a particeps criminis, and the law will not aid him 
to recover moneys advanced for such purpose, nor will it enforce secivrities 
taken therefor. 
&quot;The facts proven in the case at bar seem to bring the case within the 
principle last stated. The original notes involved in this controversy, of 
which those in suit were mere renewals, were not given after the varions 
contraets had been settled, to cover losses which the agent had paid for his 
principal. The notes see«i to have been drawn by the principal in favor of 
his agent at the inception of the alleged illegal ventures, or within a few days 
thereafter, while the transactions were still pending and the resuit undeter- 
mined. They were either given to secure moneys advanced by the broker to 
his principal, to enable the latter to prosecute the ventures, or they were 
given as an indemnity to the broker, to shield him from losses that lie nilght&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>d78cooch2qnjp6q0b57ezfvvyon5jzy</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/272</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702633</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133068</id>
      <parentid>8169869</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:00:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133068</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2799" sha1="p0hk9aib3h49cdpp75kmmk637krsue2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;260 FEDERAL REfORTER. 
obligation for each one of these instalments of irtterest, — a kind of obli- 
gation which our court bas held, and which all courts now hold, is 
capable of a distinct suit, andis so far a separate obligation, — ^that the 
statute of limitations applicable to the bond is not applicable to the 
coupon, but begins to run against the coupon, according to its nature, 
from the time it falls due, and not against the bond. I say that 
when the governor of the state of Missouri had out so many of these 
pieces of paper, they were each an item of debt owing at the time 
this transaction occurred. They need not resort to the word &quot;liabili- 
ties;&quot; but, perhaps, to make that which might have been clear a little 
clearer, and to prevent any mistake whatever, they use a word that 
covers everything. Whatever the state had become liable for under 
her issue of those bonds was to be paid by a sum of money eqtial to 
it, if paid in money, before the right to the assignment of the statu- 
tory lien accrued ; and this has not been done. 
This view of the matter receives illustration from another clause. 
By the third section of the act of 1865, the complainants can entitle 
themselves to recoive this assignment without paying a dollar in 
money to the governor or into the state treasury. That was an obli- 
gation which had its condition, and it throws light upon what the 
other was, when a sum of money equal to so and so was to be paid. 
And what is that obligation? &quot;The treasurer of the state is hereby 
authorized and directed to i-eceive of the trustees aforesaid, in pay- 
ment of the $3,000,000 and interest&quot; — that bas to be paid — &quot;as 
provided in the second section of this act;&quot; that is as much as to 
say : &quot;By section 2 of this act we did provide that for the payment of 
$3,000,000 and interest the treasurer might receive any of the out- 
standing bonds of the state bearing not less than 6 per cent, interest, 
or of the unpaid coupons thereof at their par value.&quot; He not only 
could receive the bonds, but you might go round, if it would do you 
any good, and buy up these coupons and pay the debt in that way. 
At all events, it is quite clear, taking those two sections together, that 
the legislature intended that the coupons to the bonds were to be pro- 
vided for as well as the bonds themselves. That view of it is con- 
firmed also by the original act of 1851. The fifth section of that act 
is: &quot;The said bonds thus issued to the Pacific Bailroad Company 
shall be denominated 'Pacific Eailroad state bonds,' and the said 
bonds thus issued to the Hannibal &amp; St. Joseph Eailroad Company 
shall be denominated ' The Hannibal &amp; St. Joseph Eailroad state 
bonds;' and the faith and credit of this state are hereby pledged for&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>p0hk9aib3h49cdpp75kmmk637krsue2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/318</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702682</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133070</id>
      <parentid>8169919</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:00:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPORT →  REPORT, EPORTEB → EPORTER, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133070</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2859" sha1="oot6ceki7hp3rwi3qxhb5lsqrqn9rj5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;'aOa FEDERAL REPORTERi 
bond given under the act of congress, and the transeript haa now 
been presented to this court, and the court is again called upon to 
determine whether the cause is properly removable. 
There is no other objection except that the application was not in 
time, and we may at present consider the question as if the applica- 
tion were made only under the act of 1875, the third section of 
which declares that it must be made &quot;before or at the terni at which 
the cause could be first tried, and before the trial thereof.&quot; The 
only difference between the application now and when the cause 
was before this court on the former application, is that in the sec- 
ond petition which was fiied in the state court Croueh says that 
the cause could not previously have been tried or heard in the 
circuit court of Cook.county. Why it could not have been heard or 
tried he does not state, and the question for the court to determine is 
whether, upon this statement, wheti connected with the other facts 
disclosed in the record, it can be presumed that the application was 
made in time under the act of congress; and, I think, it cannot be so 
presumed, and that the case is not essentially changed from the 
position which it occupied at the former hearing before this court. It 
is no further changed than by the above allegation npon the face of 
the petition, and the court cannot assume that constitutes a sufficient 
reason why the application was not made befor'e. If we consider it^ 
as perhaps we cannot — an application made on the twentieth day 6f 
October, 1881, and not on the twenty-fifth day of January, 1882, I 
am of the same opinion that I was on the former occasion, that it 
does not affirmatively appear upon this record, or even by the peti- 
tion, that the case could not have been heard and tried before the 
application was made on the twentieth of October; and, of course, 
for a much stronger reason, before it was made on the twenty-fifth 
of January of this year. Suppose there must be an issue made up in 
the case, and the cause is in a condition in which it cannot be heard 
and tried on account of pressure of business, if the return term bas 
arrived, and the pleadings aire filed according to the rules and prac- 
tices of the court, it is not competent for a party to lie by and allow 
a term to elapse, and then make his application and say that he is 
in time. I take it that the true construction of the statute is that if 
the case is in a condition where it can be tried in conformit'y vsith the 
law and the practice of the court, then an application after that term 
in which it is in, that condition comes too late. Now, it may be that 
there was a pressure of business, so that the court could not very well 
try the case. But if that were so, and there were other cases having&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>oot6ceki7hp3rwi3qxhb5lsqrqn9rj5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/330</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702696</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133071</id>
      <parentid>8169933</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:00:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (14)</comment>
      <origin>15133071</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3367" sha1="3bbf4x0ekio0drokmui89cbp546nje6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;318 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
That the contract between the republic and Mercer created an express trust 
as to all the lands embraced in the lindts assigned to the Mercer colony, 
which trust bas never been satisfied, reversed, abandoned, nor forfeited. 
That by the stipulation atteuding upon the annexation of Texas to the 
Union an express trust was created upon all the vacant and unappropriated 
lands retained by Texas to secure the payment of all the debts and liabilities 
of the republic. 
That the rights acquired by Mercer and his associates constituted one of the 
liabilities recorded by this express trust resulting from annexation, and that 
the said liability has never been satisfied, extinguished, nor forfeited. 
That there was never any intention of the deputies of thepeople, in conven- 
tion assembled, to declare any forfeiture of colony contracts, or to establish by 
any constitutional enactinent how and virhy any forfeiture should be declared ; 
and that no method has ever been declared by law for the forfeiture of such 
grants and the disposition qf the lands. 
That, notwithstanding the grant to Mercer and his associates, the defendant 
and his predeeessors in office, without warrant of law, have assumed and pre- 
tended to make and issue and deliver eertiflcates and patenta for lands within 
the limits of the Mercer grant to numerous persons uot claiming through or 
under privity of Mercer or the Texas Association, which persons have paid 
money and made improveinents in ignorance of their infringement on the 
rights of the Texas Association, and that this has been done to such an extent 
that the remaining lands within the limits of the Mercer grant are inadequate 
to satisfy the just demanda and rights of the complainant. 
That complainant is unwilling to interfere with the persons so acquiring 
rights, as they have expended money and labor in apparent good faith, and an 
interference would resuit in great hardship, 
That the defendant is violating the prelirainary injunction issued in this 
case, and, confederating with 0. M. Boberts, governor of Texas, is issuing eer- 
tiflcates and patents for lands in contempt of this court, and to the great in- 
jury of complainant. 
That defendant, confederating with said Boberts, has procured the passage of 
an obstruction act by the legislature of the state, which aet makes it the 
duty of the governor to countersign all eertiflcates and patents of public 
lands. 
That the lands within the limits of the Mercer colony, by reason of their 
location and fertility, are more valuable than the other vacant lands in the 
state, and that if orator is driven to the other lands to satisfy his claim 
quantity should compensate for quality. 
That under the constitution and laws of Texas, as they existed when Mer- 
eer's rights attached, and when this suit was instituted, the records and sur- 
veys and plats and maps relating to the public lands were to be kept in a 
general office, to be under the charge of a general land commissioner, who, 
upon proper showing, should issue patents for lands under the seal of the ^fcate. 
And that defendant is such commissioner in charge of such office, and that he 
and his predeeessors, though duly demanded, have refused to issue to orator 
and the Texas Association such eertiflcates and patents as the records of the&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3bbf4x0ekio0drokmui89cbp546nje6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/338</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702706</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133083</id>
      <parentid>8169941</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED, EDEBAL  → EDERAL ,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, ORTK → ORTE, ORTEB → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133083</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2822" sha1="pn1n30r1f2q3lso82kskj2cd9qmpvp3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;326 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
fact is that these two last-mentioned cases furnish neariy the entire 
law of this case. At the same time I deem it proper to say that 
nearly every proposition involved herein, I believe, from the examina- 
tion I have been able to make, and from the authorities citadin argu- 
ment by the distinguished counsel on both sides who have aided in 
this case, can be and is fully sustained by Texas authority, as de- 
clared by the supreme court of the state. 
Now, applying the law as I understand it to the facts of this case, 
I think it clearly follows that complainant is entitled to a decree in 
his favor embodying such relief as he has asked and the court bas 
jurisdietion to give. He asks for an injunction restraining the de- 
fendant, as oommissioner of the general land-office of the state, his 
servants, agents, employes, etc., from issuing, passing, or granting any 
certifieates or patents for lands lying within the limits of the Mercer col- 
ony to any person or persons other than the complainant or the Texas 
Association, and persons holding and claiming under or in priority 
with the said association ; and restraining the defendant, etc., from hin- 
dering and obstructing complainant in the execution and performance 
of the Mercer contraot, and in obtaining the certifieates and patents 
of lands to which the complainant and the said association are enti- 
tled under the terms and conditions of said contract. The relief is 
within the jurisdietion of the court, and is after the manner of the 
proceedings in equity. The complainant asks further for a manda- 
tory injunction to restrain the defendant from refusing to issue to com- 
plainant patents and certifieates for 1,376 sections of land to which 
complainant is entitled under the contract, by reason of settlers in- 
troduced thereunder, and to 1,376 sections of land to which he is 
also entitled under said contract by tendering in payment thereof 
$12 in coin and scrip to the amount of $640, or its equivalent 
in money, for each section, and restraining said defendant from 
hindering him from locating the said certifieates and patents upon 
any of the vacant and unocoupied lands of T«xus within or without the 
limits of the Mercer colony, etc. This relief, no matter how just, I 
conceive to be beyond the jurisdietion of the court in this case for 
want of proper parties. 
The whole theory of this case is that the contract with Mercer cre- 
ated an express trust, which, by operation of law and compact, 
devolved upon the state of Texas; that the state of Texas is now 
the trustee, the Texas Association the cestui que trust; that the legal 
title is in the state, the equitable title in the association. It has been 
veliemently alleged by complainant and adjudged by this court that&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pn1n30r1f2q3lso82kskj2cd9qmpvp3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/348</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702716</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133084</id>
      <parentid>8169952</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133084</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2658" sha1="6unnc75x4u6pfbei6ociqzks5rap3hq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;836 FEDERAL REFORTER. 
1880; the plea and demurrer, September 6, 1880; the replications, 
JulySO, 1881; and that soon after (Augu8t4th) the plaintiflfs' counsel 
asked the court to fix a day for the argument. It further appears 
that after the filing of the plea and demurrer, September 6, 1880, a 
stipulation was entered into by counsel upon both sides extending 
the time for hearing to the November rule-day, 1880, meantime the 
complainants to be allowed to file proper pleadings in reply to said 
plea and demurrer. By further written agreements between counsel 
the postponement provided for by this stipulation was extended 
monthly until February, 1881. Then we find a further stipulation 
as f ollows : 
&quot;It is hereby agreed that no movement on either side shall be made in this 
cause until May, 1881, without prejudice to complainants' right to flle evi- 
dence of appointment as administrators in Boston.&quot; 
By the affidavit of Mr. Payne, orie of complainants' counsel, it 
appears that in October or November, 1880, Mr. Lothrop, one of 
defendants' counsel, stated, in effect, that while he would sign the 
stipulation, the complainants' counsel might take their own time 
about bringing the case to a hearing. 
In the light of all these circumstances it is fair to presume that 
complainants' counsel understood that any rigid enforcement of the 
rule now invoked had been waived, impliedly by acts and conduct, if 
not in express terms; and we are of this opinion. 
Considering the repeated postponements which had takeu place, 
for the mutual accommodation of both sides, bo far as appears, the 
languagtj used by defendants' counsel as to time of hearing; and 
hearing also in mind that the replications were filed within three 
months after May, 1881; and that within a week thereafter the 
plaintiffs moved the court to set a time for hearing, — it would, we 
think, be inequitable to allow the defendants' motion to dismiss to 
prevail. Indirectly, as bearing on this question of laches, reference 
is made to the fact that the original bill in this case was brought in 
1871, the answer filed in 1873, the replication not put in until 1875; 
also, that the original complainant died in 1876, and that the bill of 
revivor was not brought until 1880. In answer to this charge, the 
complainants say that the delay has been owing to the pendency of 
another suit in the state court of Rhode Island, the determination of 
which might affect the prosecution of this suit, and that, conse- 
ijuently, the delay was acquiesced in by both sides. They further 
state that within a short time after the final decision by the Rhode&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6unnc75x4u6pfbei6ociqzks5rap3hq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/360</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702728</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133085</id>
      <parentid>12451923</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: whieh → which, islied → ished, POKTER → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133085</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2849" sha1="qufmafe60jakoll2dlnl2y0fkyra5n3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;348 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
under oar Code of Practice they would be termed, dilatoiy exceptions, 
along with the plea to the merits. These pleas are to the effect that 
the conditions precedent established by the policyhave net been per- 
forried : (1) In that no proper preliminary proofs were furnished ; 
and (2) that there had been no arbitration whereby the &quot;amount of 
loss&quot; must be determined, and that until these conditions have been 
performed no right of action in the plaintiff exists. The court ruled 
that the plaintiffs, having alleged performance by furnishing prelim- 
inary proofs, were confined to evidence in support of that allegation, 
unless they elected to amend and plead a waiver of that obligation ; 
and the plaintiffs elected to stand upon the allegation that prelim- 
inary proofs were ftirnished. Under rule 3 of this court these special 
or dilatory pleas were first tried, and when the evidence on the part 
of the plaintiffs was finished, defendants' counsel asked the court to 
exclude the testimony from the consideration of the jury as being 
insufficient to show the delivery of preliminary proofs or any arbi- 
tration and award. The policy of insurauce offered in evidence by 
the plaintiffs contains certain provisions which are deelared therein 
to be conditions with reference to the preliminary proofs, and with 
reference to arbitration. These provisions are held to be conditions 
precedent by an unbroken line of authorities. Unless they are against 
the policy of the law, or have been waived, they must be proved to 
have been performed as stipulated, for they are the law of the case 
established by the parties themselves. 
1. First, as to the preliminary proofs. The stipulations on this 
subject are as follows: 
No. 8. &quot;AU persons insured by this oompaiiy, aiistaining any loss or damage 
by fire, shall immediately give notice to the compaiiy or their agents, and 
within 14 days after such loss or damage bas occuned sball deliver in as pai- 
ticular an account of their loss or damage as the nature of the case will admit 
of, and malie proof of the same by their declaration or affirmation, and by 
their books of account, or such other proper evidence as the directors of tiiis 
Company or their agents may reasonably require ; and until such declaration 
or affirmation, account and evidence be produeed, the amount of such loss, or 
any part thereof, shall not be payable, or recoverable.&quot; 
And— 
No. 10. &quot;Payment of any loss or damage shall be made within 60 days after 
satisfactory proof thereof shall have been made to the company in accordauce 
with the conditions of tiiis policy, and in every case of loss the company will 
reserve to itself the right of reinstatement, in preference to the payment of 
claims, if it shall judge the former course to be most expedient.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qufmafe60jakoll2dlnl2y0fkyra5n3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/366</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702734</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133086</id>
      <parentid>7246677</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133086</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2799" sha1="7ml5foga0gt23k4hahmiwunj5zdgmxo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;354 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
pliance with the stipulation requiring proofs, that would have been 
for the jury. In all the cases where courts have held that tiie suffi- 
ciencyof preliminary proofs must go to the jurytherehas been either 
the question of defective ones having been rendered sufBcient ones 
because of waiver, or because of destruction of books or other inabil- 
ity to f arnish proper proofs from some cause beyond the control of 
the assured. In those cases the question reaches out to matters 
extrinsic to the papers themselves, claimed as constituting proofs, and 
the question of sufficiency is for the jury. But this case finds neither 
evidence tending to establish waiver, nor destruction of books nor 
other cause of inability. It presents simply the question whether, 
intrinsically judged, in and of themselves, the papers submitted con- 
stituted proofs. The decisions of the supreme court of the United 
States and of the supreme courts of the states have with well nigh 
unanimity defined with exactitude the principle which separates ques- 
tions of law from questions of fact. The question which presents the 
closest analogy to the one before the court is, what constitutes due 
diligence in giving notice to an indorser of a promissory note of non- 
payment ? and a long Une of concurrent decisions bas established the 
laiw as being that when the facts are undisputed what is due' diligence 
is a question for the court. In the cases collated — 1 Brightly's Dig. 
verbo, &quot;Jury 7,&quot; (a,) No. 102, p. 511 — it is also held that when the facts 
are admitted or established, the question as to what is a reasonable 
time for the production of preliminary proofs is for the court. Colutn- 
bia Ins. Co. v. Lawrence, 10 Pet. 507-513. 
In the cases where, as here, nothing was before the court except 
the measurement of the papers profiered as preliminary proofs by the 
requirements of the contract — no extrinsic question — the court bas 
uniformly determined as to the sufficiency of proofs. Justice Story 
did this in Catlin v. Springfield Ins. Co. 1 Sumn. 437; Lycoming Ins. 
Co. V. Updegraff, 4 Wright, (Pa.) 311; Beatty v. Lycoming Ins. Co. 
66 Pa. St. 17; Wellcome v. People's Equitable Fire Ins. Co. H Gray, 
(Mass.) 480; Norton v. Rensselaer e S. Ins. Co. 7 Cow. 645; and 
Kimball v. Hamilton Fire Ins. Co. supra; 8 Bos. 503. As to the 
question whether the 60 days had elapsed since the service of the 
last set of papers, and before the institution of this suit, see ruling 
of Judge Duer. 7 Cow. 647. From an examination of the cases 
eited, and of all the cases I could consult, I am of the opinion that 
the question here presented is for the court to respond to, and the 
court declares that there had not been preliminary proofs fumished&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7ml5foga0gt23k4hahmiwunj5zdgmxo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/382</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702750</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133087</id>
      <parentid>8169990</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133087</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2787" sha1="3ctj4qqoz06lc39nv5g0xmysw3rnr2n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;370 FEDERAL REPOBTBR. . 
The defendant at once submitted to the authority of the deputy mar- 
shal, who told him that he might depart from eustody if he would 
promise to attend the commissioner's court on a certain designated 
day. The defendant agreed to the proposition and went off, and did 
raot afterwards appear at the time and place designated. 
I am of opinion that this was not such a service of the warrant as 
entitled the marshal to the fee charged. The service of a commis- 
fjioner's warrant in a criminal case consists of more than a mere 
arrest, as the marshal must keep the defendant in eustody until he is 
carried before an examining magistrate for a preliminary hearing 
upon the charges in the warrant. Where an arrest is made on a 
commissioner's warrant, the officer making the arrest bas no authority 
in law to take bail, and if he voluntarily allows the defendant to 
depart from eustody before the case bas been heard by the magis- 
trate, it is a voluntary escape. The liability of the officer is abso- 
lute, and cannot be relieved by a subsequent arrest of the defendant ; 
but the warrant is not inyalidated, and the defendant may be retaken 
Tjnder the same warrant, and by the same officer. The misconduct 
of the officer does not prevent an arrest, as the public good iequires 
that the defendant should be brought to justice. 1 Chit. Crim. Law, 61. 
The rule of law is somewhat different in mesne proeess in civil cases, 
as the officer becomes special bail if he allows a defendant to depart 
out of eustody without giving a bail-bond. Upon final proeess of 
execution if there is a voluntary escape the liability of the officer is 
absolute. If there is a negligent escape the officer may retake the 
prisoner on fresh pursuit and hold him, so as to relieve his liability. 
Adams y. Turrentine, 8 Ired. 147. ' 
The action of the deputy marshal in this case, and the submission 
of the defendant to the coiitrol of the officer, constituted a valid arrest. 
Whether acts constitute an arrest depends upon the intent of the 
'pattiesat the time. An arrest may be made without touehing'the 
person of the defendant at the time, if he voluntarily submits tb the 
proeess of the law in the hands of the officer. Jones v. Johesj 13 
Ired. 4re8. , , . , 
; Although there was a valid arrest in this case there was; not a due 
■service of proeess, and the marshal is not entitled to the fee charged. 
In his answer the marshal insists that the defendant was retaken on 
the warrant on a subsequent day and carried before the ppnamis- 
sioner for a preliminary hearing. The evidence shows that- the de- 
fendant, previous to the second arrest, and while he was still lurking 
in the woods and evading the officer, had an appearance-bond, with&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3ctj4qqoz06lc39nv5g0xmysw3rnr2n</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/384</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702752</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133088</id>
      <parentid>8169992</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: AIi  → AL , ORTK → ORTE, ORTEB → ORTER, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133088</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2794" sha1="7jq2i7255tj5kz520rbvsjdb3n03dkd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;372 FSDEBAL BEFORTER. 
nature of a recognizance, where the parties sign their names, I can 
see no absolute necessity for the principal being present before the 
person authorized to accept such bond. During the absence of the 
principal the magistrate might refuse to accept such bond, but if he 
is satisfied that the bond was duly signed and sealed, and the sure- 
ties are suEficient and he accepta the bond, I am of the opinion that 
it is valid. At the common law, eren in the case of a formai recog- 
nizance, where the defendant is an infant or in prison, and so absent, 
sureties were allowed to enter into l'ecognizance of bail, and a war- 
rant called a liberate, was issued by the person taking bail for the 
enJargement of the defendant. 2 Haie, P. C. 126. 
If the bond in this case was as good as a recognizance, I am of 
opinion that it operated as a supersedeas of the warrant in the hands 
of the deputy marshal without any formai supersedeas writ, At the 
common-law an apprehension under a warrant could, in many cases, 
be prevented by a party going before a justice of the peace and find- 
ing sufiicient sureties for his appearance to answer any indictment, 
and obtaining the supersedeas of the magistrate. This could be done 
even after an indictment found in a court. 1 Chit. Crim. Law. 46. 
If proeess of arrest from a court after indictment could thus be 
Buperseded by a justice of the peace, I see no reason why a commis- 
sioner, having the powers of a justice of the peace in such matters, 
cannot supersede a warrant which he has issued to bring a person 
before him for an examination upon a charge of crime, by accepting 
a bond with sufficient sureties to secure an appearance in a bailable 
case, and where the defendant is entitled to have his witnesses 
heard upon the investigation. 
I do not approve of this practice of accepting bail to prevent an 
apprehension upon legal proeess, and I will instruct the commission- 
ers of this district not to adopt it, as I think it most proper and reg- 
ular for defendants to enter into bond or recognizance in person be- 
fore the magistrate, and that other proceedings should be in accordance 
with the usual course and practice of the courts. No justice of the 
peace can supersede the warrant of another without a formai and 
legal examination, (1 Chit. 36,) but we may reasonably suppose that 
a justice with whom a complaint was filed and who had issued the 
warrant, may supersede such warrant when the appearance of the 
defendant had been secured by him in taking a sufficient bond. 
Commissioners are invested with many of the powers and f unctions 
of justices of the peace, and they act within the seope of such, powers 
upon their own judgment and reaponsibility. A district attomey has&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7jq2i7255tj5kz520rbvsjdb3n03dkd</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/422</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702790</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133089</id>
      <parentid>14390516</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:01:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED,  FEDBB →  FEDER,  EEPO →  REPO, removed: � (18)</comment>
      <origin>15133089</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2473" sha1="64bswhgzhr63t1l6109dhgeey7r2kc3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;410 FEDERAL REPORIEK, 
Here is a distinct and independent cause of action given by tiie 
last clause of the section. The plaintiff's allegations are founded 
upon facts which he claims bring him within the terms of this sec- 
tion. The gravamen of his action is fraud, and he prays judgment 
for damages. It may have been necessary for him to set out the 
judgment and show that an execution has been returned unsatisfied, 
to meet the conditions of the 1083d section, but the judgment is not 
the foundation of his action. He has a controversy with new parties 
distinct from that upon which the judgment was rendered; He seeks 
io establish a new liabilityagainst these new parties. 
It is further argued by defendant that this action cannot be main- 
tained here because it is in the nature of an action to enforee iastat- 
utory penalty. To this the answer is that it is hot an action to 
recover penalties, but unliquidated damages. It is a civil, not a 
penal action. Its object is not punishment, but indemnity for a civil 
injury. It is to no purpose to say that the same section of the stat- 
utes provides for the punishment of the ofience committed by the 
defendants as a crime. It is not unusual foc the same statute thus 
to provide for indemnity by civil action to the individual injured, and 
■protection to the public by penal action and indictment. 
The motion to remand in this case is denied. 
Note, Proceedings in garnishment process are ancillary to tJie main suit, 
and they cannot be removed after judgment, Fratt v. Albright, 9 Fed. Bep. 
634.— [Ed, 
Mabion V. Ellis,* 
{Circuit Court, E. D. Lovuiana. February 14, 1882. ) 
JuliiSDicTioN OF Circuit Courts — Tbansfer opNegotiable Paper to Givb 
JUEISDICTIOH. 
Where a citizen of one state transfers mortgage notes lield by Lim to a citi- 
zen of another state, or a foreigner, who thereupon, by virtue of his citizenship, 
brings suit upon the same in a circuit court, the circuit court will take juris- 
diction of such a suit, although the transfer was inade for the purpose of giving 
the court jurisdietion, provided such transfer be not accorapanied with an 
agreement to retransfer the property to the grantor after the termination of 
the litigation. The court, in the absence of such agreement, will not inquire 
into the motives which induced the transfer. 
Be iMveaga v. Williams, 6 Sawy. 574, followed. 
•Reported by Joseph P. Horuor, Esq., of the A'ew Orleans bar.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>64bswhgzhr63t1l6109dhgeey7r2kc3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/424</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702792</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133095</id>
      <parentid>12096732</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL, EPORTEB → EPORTER,  KEPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (11)</comment>
      <origin>15133095</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2713" sha1="m0nf9gi49d0mpaw1p0wnmwhcllbrizj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;412 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
plea must fail under the rules laid down in numerous adjudicated 
cases. 
In the case of De Laveaga v. Williams, reporfced in 5 Sawy. 573, 
Mr. Justice Field said : 
&quot; There is no doubt that the sole object of the deed to the eompliiinant was 
to give this court jurisdiction, and that the grantor has borne, and still bears, 
the expanses of the suit. But neither of these facts renders the deed inopera- 
tive to transfer the title. The defendants are not in a position to question 
the right of the grantor to give away the property if he chooses to do so. And 
the court will not, at the suggestion of a stranger to the title. inquire into the 
motives which induced the grantor to part with liis iuterest. It is suificient 
that the instrument executed is valid in law, and that the grantee is of the 
class entitled under the laws of congress to proceed in the federal courts for 
the protection of his rights. It is only when the conveyance is executed to 
give the court jurisdiction, and isaccompaiiied with an agieeiaent toretransfer 
the property at the request of the grantor upoti the termination of the litiga- 
tion, that the proceeding will be treated as a fraud on the court.&quot; See, also, 
Briggs v. French, 2 Sumn. 256; Smith v. Kernoolian, 7 How, 215; Barney v. 
Baltimore, 6 Wall. 288. 
Counsel, by brief, attempt to raise the question that Grobel &amp; Co., 
being themselves the pledgees of the notes against defendant, had no 
right to repledge them to plaintiff. To this it may be answered : (1) 
That is no issue no^ in the case ; (2) the defendant can raise no such 
issue, it being no concern of his; (3) that so far as it was in this 
case it haa been settled by the ruling on the demurrers lately decided. 
The complainant must have judgment on this plea to the jurisdic- 
tion. And as the balance of the defendant's petition or cross-bill has 
been held bad on demurrer, there is nothing left in the case tb sustain 
the outstanding injunction to restrain the sale originally ordered in 
the premises. Judgment may therefore be also entered dissolving the 
injunction heretofore issued in this case, with eosts, and reserving to 
complainant his right to proceed on the injunction bond for ali dam- 
age incurred by reason of said injunction. 
Let a decree in accordance herewith be entered. 
ifoTE. A honaflde conveyance of property in controversy for the express 
purpose of conferring jurisdiction, is no ground for remanding a cause to the 
state court, {Hoyt v. Wright, 4 Ped. Eep. 168;) but a defendant can not ac- 
quire the right to a removal by the purchase of the interests of his co-defend- 
ants. Temple v. Smith, 4 Ted. Eep. 392. — [Ed.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>m0nf9gi49d0mpaw1p0wnmwhcllbrizj</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/426</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702794</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133096</id>
      <parentid>8170038</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: TEB. → TER.,  EBPO →  REPO, OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (5)</comment>
      <origin>15133096</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2851" sha1="t44fy9chnvhheh0py9hgyab7lix62lp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;ile FEDERAL REPORTER. 
cross and eonnect and unite therewith at the same level;&quot; that &quot;the 
development of the business of passenger traffic on elevated railways 
in said city has made it necessary for each of said companies to run 
trains in such manner and with such speed and frequenoy that the 
&lt;iroBsing of the trains of one company over and upon the tracks of 
the other company, and the running of the trains of both companies 
updn the portions of the tfack and route jointly owned or used by 
them, isdeemed impracticable except at the risk of inconvenience 
and delay to the public and danger to human life;&quot; that, &quot;after pro- 
tracted efforts to devise plans for operating all said lines so as to 
afford to the public perfect fullness of accommodation and safety, it 
is the opinion of both companies that such management cannot be 
assured while the trains of the two companies are run under the con- 
trol of differing managing officers, or btherwise than by placing the 
lines of both companies under one sole control, with power to change 
f rom time to time the termini of routes, to regulate and limit the pas- 
sage of trains from the tracks of one company upon the tracks of the 
other at the Connecting and crossing points, and to do such other 
things and make such other changes, from time to time, in the entire 
management of trafSc upon the lines of both railways, as experience 
may show to be necessary or desirable ; &quot; that the Manhattan &quot;is by 
law authorized to construct and operate elevated railroads in the city 
of New York, whether owned or leased by it, and is willing and 
desirons to accept,&quot; and the Metropolitan and the New York &quot;have 
agreed to execute and deliver to it leases of all their respective rail- 
ways and properties as described in this instrument, and in a similar 
instrument of even date herewith to be executed by the New York,&quot; 
&quot;as lessor to the Manhattan,&quot; &quot;upon all and singular the terms, 
agreements, and conditions herein and therein nientioned and set 
forth;&quot; that the Metropolitan &quot;has heretofore executed to the Central 
Trust Company of New York its first mortgage, bearing date July 10, 
1878,&quot; &quot;securing the bonds therein provided for, the total amount 
thereof now issued and agreed to be issued being $8,500,000 of prin- 
cipal; that the Metropolitan &quot;may be hereafter required&quot; by the 
Manhattan &quot;to issue further amounts of the said bonds secured by 
the said mortgage in excess of said $8,500,000,&quot; for the purpose of 
construeting and equipping extensions of the line of the Metropolitan, 
&quot;payment of all which bonds, principal and interest, is to be assumed 
by the Manhattan;&quot; and that the Metropolitan &quot;haa issued and 
agreed to issue its capital stock to the amount, at its par value,&quot; of 
$6,500,000, upon which stock the Manhattan &quot;has agreed to guar-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t44fy9chnvhheh0py9hgyab7lix62lp</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/454</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702822</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133097</id>
      <parentid>8170070</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT,  FEDERAIi  →  FEDERAL , PORTBR → PORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133097</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2777" sha1="0asqtjfs13a1xf52ogdq7gjm521eu8c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;442 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
The respondent contends that the Sioux City &amp; St. Paul road was 
prior to its rival in location and construction, and that &quot;priority of 
location of route, of construction of road, and of selection of lands on 
the line of location give prior, paramount, and exclusive title to the 
lands thus selected.&quot; This proposition is untenable. It is impossi- 
ble to conceive that congress could have intended that the whole of 
the lands within the overlapping limits should go to one or the other 
of the enterprises in question. The only rational inferenoe is that 
congress intended that both roads should participate in these lands. 
Now, by applying the principle that priority of location and construc- 
tion gives priority of right, it would have been inevitable that the 
intention of congress would have been utterly defeated. Both roads 
could bardly, in the nature of things, be located and constructed 
at the same precise time. It was inevitable that one should be 
located and constructed sooner or later than the other. The Mc- 
Gregor enterprise had more than 250 miles to locate and construct; 
the Sioux City &amp; St. Paul about 60 miles. A race of diligence 
between them would have been no race at all. If congress had 
intended that the principle of priority should be applied it might 
just as well have given the lands at the place of intersection out- 
right to the Sioux City &amp; St. Paul enterprise. Nothing but an utter 
want of all diligence on the part of the last-named enterprise could 
have given the McGregor Company any chance whatever to secure a 
single acre in the overlapping limits. 
Take the case for illustration of a grant in the same act to two par- 
allel roads with overlapping limits. In such a case, if one road, by 
superior diligence in location or construction, or both, could secure 
all the lands, the building of the other road would be prevented and 
the will of the grantor defeated, for it must be assumed that in such 
a case the purpose of the grantor would be to secure the building of 
both roads, and not one or the other of the two. Hence we are clear 
that the principle of priority contended for cannot be adopted to solve 
the difficulty of overlapping grants, and in this we are sustained by 
authority. See Mr. Justice Miller's opinion on page 24 of complain- 
ant's brief; Mr. Justice Harlan's, on page 25 of same; also, Judge 
Dillon, in 4 Dill. 307. 
Again, the defendant's couneel contend that the rights of the corn- 
plainant company were immutably fixed by the line which the Mc- 
Gregor Company caused to be located and returned to the proper 
department of the government in August, 1864; that by virtue of this 
line the limits of the grant under which the complainant claims&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0asqtjfs13a1xf52ogdq7gjm521eu8c</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/474</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702842</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133098</id>
      <parentid>8170093</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EPORTEB → EPORTER,  FEDEBA →  FEDERA, ERAIi → ERAL, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133098</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2786" sha1="qjqxtg5g6iusa4g5ld1ljrz8rklv590" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;462 FEDERAL SEPORTER. 
to him, or for any reason he does not wish to perform them, why may 
lie not give it up for that reason as well after as before mandatory 
process, and this without any responsibility for or inquiry into the 
motive for his action? It seems to me wholly untenable, when an 
officer bas the right of resignation, to hold that he is guilty of con- 
tempt of court if he resigna rather than obey a writ of mandamus. 
He cannot delay obedience without contempt, and he remains in con- 
tempt as long as he continues in office without obedience. Hoff v. 
Jasper County, 20 Am. Law Eeg. (N. S.) 435. But if before the oppor- 
tunity to obey arrives, or before the time prescribed by law for obe- 
dience, he resigns effectually or vaeates the office, I do not recognize in 
the act of resignation any contempt, no matter what his motives. The 
mere fact that the creditor may be thus defeated of his remedy does 
not furnish a reason,. though even this is merely temporary, as the suc- 
cesBor is amenable to the same process. Com'rs v. Sellew, 99 U. S. 
624; Thompson v. U. S. 103 U. S. 480, 484; U. S. v. Labette 
County, 7 Fed. Rep. 318, 320. No authority has been produced 
which supports the contrary doctrine, and I think these views accord 
with the general principles involved in the consideration of the sub- 
ject, and are a proper inference from the cases. Rees v. Watertown, 
19 Wall. 107; Barkley v. Levee ComWs, 93 U. S. 258; Meriwether v. 
Garrett, 102 U. S. 472, 511-518; Edwards v. U. S. 103 U. S. 471; 
Thompson v. V. S. supra. 
The leading question in this case is whether or not these respond- 
ents have effectually resigned, or are still the justices of Lauderdale 
county and liable for a non-compliance with the writ commanding 
them to levy the tax to pay the relator's judgment. This question 
depends upon a proper construction of the constitution of Tennessee, 
and there is no decision of the supreme court of the state to guide 
the court in ita determination. 
Prior to the constitution of 1870 there can be but little doubt that 
the laws of Tennessee permitted to all ofiicers the most i|inrestricted 
right of resignation. The resignations of the respondents were ten- 
dered aocording to the Code and accepted by the county court, which 
was, under the law as it existed, independently of the constitution, 
sufficient to vacate their offices, although relator's counsel suggest 
that a formai acceptance is required, which was wanting as to some 
of the justices. It seems, however, to be generally conceded by the 
authorities that where the of&amp;cer or tribunal designated by law to 
receive resignations has no duty to perform in respect to supplying a 
successor, the bare receipt of the resignation without objection&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qjqxtg5g6iusa4g5ld1ljrz8rklv590</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/494</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702862</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133099</id>
      <parentid>8170115</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, BKAL → ERAL, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133099</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1873" sha1="6l89hrb6qi78d4zc0vriv8nmxyq7s47" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;482 PEDERAL REPORTER. 
&quot;In regard to Ihe Van Skelline machine, there is not in it any such heated 
eylinder as the cylinder a of claim 1 of No. 8,460, or as the cylinder C of the 
defendant. It does not anticipaite claim 2 of No. 8,460, because not only is 
there not in it a roller which transfers the melted wax from the trough to the 
paper, but there is no scraper between the roller and the paper. It does not 
meet claim 3 ol ifo. 8,460, because it has no heated cylinder like the heated 
cylinder a; nor does it meet claim 5 of Nb. 8,460. The operation of spreading 
the wax upon the surface of the paper, substantially as set forth in the descrip- 
tion of No. 8i460, involves spreading it by means of a uniform layer of wax 
on the spreading-cylinder, produced by a scraper applied to such cylinder be- 
tvyeen the trough and the place of contact with the paper, which removes 
from the cylinder the surplus wax taken up by it from the trough. In Van 
Skelline's machine the paper is dipped into the bath of wax and takes up all 
the wax it will, and then the scraper is applied to the paper. The defend- 
ant's procoss imitates the plaintifC's, and not Van Skelline's.&quot; 
As respects the question before us, the operation of the defendants' 
machine, and his process, are precisely similar to Van Skelline's. 
This view is also fully sustained by the testimony of the several ex- 
perts called by the defendants,. — some of whom are men of very great 
experience and unusual intelligence, respeeting the matters of which 
they speak. 
It is unnecessary to inquire whether the defendants employ or imi- 
tate other steps of the plaintiff's process. What we have said is suf- 
ficient to indicate our reasons for holding that they do not employ 
the process protected by his patent. 
The motion must therefore be refused. 
MoKennan, G. J., concurred.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6l89hrb6qi78d4zc0vriv8nmxyq7s47</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/564</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702932</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133100</id>
      <parentid>8170193</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, POKTER → PORTER, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133100</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2362" sha1="f0d3mn3cqoc5xzlt2m2hofrott9a7w8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;552 TEDKBAL REPORTER. 
of an objection made upon that ground, it is net now oien to the 
defendant to contend that the circumstance that Smith ■«as a party 
to the record rendered it impossible for the defendant to present 
Smith's testimony to the jury. The defendant's present position, in 
asking for a new trial upon the ground that the incompetency of 
Smith entitled him to have the jury charged as requested, is, in legal 
eiiect, the same as if, at the trial, he had offered Smith as a wituess, 
and the court having, upon his request, ruled Smith to be competent, 
he was seeking a new trial because that ruling was wrong. Such a 
position is wholly untenable. As the case stood at the trial, it is 
plain to see that Smith would have been sworn if the defendant had 
ofiered to swear him, and therefore the question whether it be error 
to permit a jury to draw an inference unfavorable to the defendant, 
from his omission to call as a witness a person who could not be 
sworn in his behalf, which is the question that bas been pressed upon 
this application, was not raised by the objection to the charge, or by 
the request to charge, and could not have been then raised. The 
only question which then arose was whether the jury, in weighing the 
testimony of the defendant, when he stood contradicted by two wit- 
nesses, had the right to consider the circumstance that he had omit- 
ted to call as a witness one who, as the evidence showed, was fully 
able to confirm his testimony if it was true, and whose interest was 
identical with that of the defendant, without assigning any reason 
for the omission; it being incumbent on the defendant, in view of the 
evidence as to Smith to show that he was not accessible. As to the 
correctness of the ruling upon that question there appears no room 
for a reasonable doubt. The jury were not instructed that they were 
bound to draw an inference uufavorable to the defendant from the 
omission to call Smith, nor was the weight to be given to this circum- 
stance made the subject of a suggestion to the jury. The fact of the 
omission was simply called to their attention, and it was left to the 
jury to attach to it such weight as they might deem it entitled to, 
under the cireumstances. In this there was no error. 
The motion is denied. 
See U. S. V. Connally, 1 Eed. Eep. 779.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>f0d3mn3cqoc5xzlt2m2hofrott9a7w8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/610</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702978</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133101</id>
      <parentid>8170245</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133101</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2661" sha1="72t7atnq34kta8ol41fw5hd8c0t8n4l" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;598 FEDERAL REIPORTER. 
because said transfer was a mere fraudaient scheme to deprive Vue 
plaintiff of bis rights against said property. But he had no diatinct- 
ive right against any other than the guilty res respectively; certainly 
no lien upon all the property of the owners prior to a judgment in 
personam in admiralty, or upon execution levied subsequent to. judg- 
ment at common law. It is true that under exceptional circum- 
stanees courts of equity have lent their aid to creditors at large, and 
generally when the property sought to be charged was already in the 
custody of the court by force of a trust, receivership, etc. 
The case of Garrisony. Memphis Ins. Co. 19 How. 312, canhardly 
be considered as fully sustaining the plaintili's proposition, although, 
from the imperfect statement of that case, it would seem to be held 
that because an insurer is in equity subrogated to the rights of the 
insured, he may before judgment at law proceed to enf orce his demand 
against the owners of a vessel. The cases cited in that opinion do 
not go to the length here claimed; for the court only insists upon the 
rule whereby the insurer, subrogated to the rights of the insured, may 
enforce the lien on a judgment recovered by the insured, and &quot;may 
apply to equity whenever an impediment exista to the exei'cise ef his 
legal remedy in the name of the assured.&quot; To those familiar with 
the common-law practice then prevailing to a large extent, the true 
meaning of that expression \^ the court is clear. In that case there 
were 11 contractsof affreightment dependent on the construction each 
was to receive — the disaster being one and the same — and, to avoid 
multiplicity of suits, embraced in one bill. 
In Case v. Beauregard, 99 U. S. 119; S. C. 101 U. S. 688, a fuller 
exposition of equitable principles is given. The same case was twice 
before the United States supreme court, substantially, and the views 
expressed in 101 U. S. 688, are especially instructive. The first bill 
was dismissed because, as the court says, &quot;it was not averred that 
judgment at law had ever been recovered against the parfcnership for 
the debt, and that an execution had been issued thereon and returned 
fruitless.&quot; It then proceeds to state under what circumstances a 
crediter may, without judgment and execution previously had, pursue 
his demand in equity. Taking the most liberal of the rules stated in 
that case, as exceptions to the general proposition, the case before 
the court will not fall strictly within any of them ; for each must be 
considered in the light of the equitable circumstances upon which it 
depends.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>72t7atnq34kta8ol41fw5hd8c0t8n4l</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/626</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>702994</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133102</id>
      <parentid>14027855</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED,  FEDEK →  FEDER,  EEPO →  REPO, TEB. → TER., REPOETER → REPORTER, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133102</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2846" sha1="3kulku89p5gecqnb1fl48puh1qto8cb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Qli FEDERAL REPORTER. 
121 provides that &quot;any bank which shall neglect or omit to make a 
return of dividends or additions to its surplus or contingent funds as 
often as once in six months, shall make a list or return in duplicata, 
under oath, to the assessor of the amount of profits which have accrued 
or been earned and received by such bank during the six months 
preceding.&quot; In ascertaining the &quot;amount of profits which have ac- 
crued or been earned or received,&quot; every loss which bas oecurred in 
its legitimate business shouid be takcn into account. A loss through 
the crime of one of its offioers by defalcation or embezzlement is as 
much a loss incident to its business as a loss through the robhery of 
its funds by some person not connected with the bank, or a loss through 
forged checks or altered bonds, or through bad debts, or a destruction 
of its property. It cannot be supposed that the term &quot;profits,&quot; in 
section 121, just quoted, means gross receipts on the profit side of 
its ledger without deductions for expenses in carrying on the business, 
and losses of whatever nature to which it is exposed in the legiti- 
mate prosecution of its business. By &quot;profits&quot; is meant its net prof- 
ita after all such losses and expenses are deducted. Had its losses 
by embezzlement been known to the bank at the time of its returns 
in 1866, theymight, therefore, have beeti properly deducted from the 
returns for that year. They were not so deducted, and they equal 
the full amount alleged in the complaint not to have been returned, 
which it appears was deducted by the bank on account of the state 
tax which it had paid on account of the stockholders. Even, thf re- 
fore, if the bank had no right to deduct the state tax which it had 
paid, it would still be true, as alleged in the second defence, that the 
bank had made full return of all its profits for that year as required 
by section 121. This defence of the answer is, therefore, held good; 
and it applies to the years 1866, 1867, and 1868 as a complete de- 
fence to the full amount claimed. 
As regards the amount claimed for the year 1870, the only defence 
demurred to relates to the deduction for the state tax. The answer 
is not clear in its statements regarding the mode in which the state 
tax was paid, whether &quot;out of its funds&quot; generally, or out of divi- 
nends previously declared; nor does it aver with any clearness or 
certainty whether any dividends at all were declared, although that 
fact is rendered extremely probable from other facts stated, and has 
been assumed by both sides as a fact in their briefs. But assuming 
that to be the fact, the only cause of action which could arise under 
the law would be under section 120 for a duty on &quot;dividends&quot; or 
&quot;additions to surplus or contingent funds.&quot; That section and section&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3kulku89p5gecqnb1fl48puh1qto8cb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/652</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703020</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133103</id>
      <parentid>8170291</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EPORTEB → EPORTER, EDEBAL  → EDERAL ,  IEDERA →  FEDERA,  KEPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (5)</comment>
      <origin>15133103</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2804" sha1="8mm8pg1gw9xbfjkimelzoxq8p1a12iw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;6*0 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
The fact that the execution is regular in fonn for a money judg- 
ment, under the Code of Civil Procedure, can no more affect the 
power of the sheriff to sell in the mode prohibited than an execution 
entirely regular, and apparently valid upon its face, issued upon a 
judgment absolutely void upon the face of the cecord. I am unable 
to distinguish this case from the cases cited, and must hold the sale 
and the sheriff's deed to be void. This view renders it unnecessary 
to consider the other objections to the validity of the sale. 
As to the second ground relied on for a recovery : 
It appears from the facts found that the plaintiff has a patent is- 
sued upon a confirmation of a claim arising under the laws of Mexico, 
which includes eight small tracts of the land described in the com- 
plaint, amounting in the aggregate to a little over 76 acres ; while 
the patent of the defendants, in express terms, reserves and excludes 
those tracts from the operation of their patent. To those tracts, then, 
the plaintiff has a patent of the United States, and the defendants 
have none. It is claimed by defendants that their decree of comfir- 
mation covers these pieces of land ; that they ought, therefore, to have 
been included in the patent, and that their exclusion was unauthor- 
ized and without eflfect. I do net so understand the law, as settled 
in regard to such titles, as applied to actions at law to recover the 
possession of lands. As I understand the law as settled in a long 
line of decisions in the supreme court of California, and now afSrmed 
and fully established by the decisions of the supreme court of the 
United States, the patent issued upon a confirmed Mexican grant is 
the final, authentic, and conclusive record which establishes the legal 
title in the patentee, which must prevail in an action at law against 
any party having no patent to the land; that it is conclusive and 
unassailable collaterally by any party having no patent. This is 
so held, following the California decisions, in Beard v. Federey, 3 Wall. 
492, where the patent is declared to be record evidence that not 
only the claim is valid, but that the grant &quot;is correctly located now so 
as to embrace the promises as they are surveyed and described, &quot; and 
that &quot;it is in this effect of the patent as a record of the government 
that its security and protection chiefly lie.&quot; So, also, the principle 
is asserted in Mora v. Foster, 3 Sawy. 472-3, and distinctly affirmed 
on appeal in Foster v. Mora, 98 U. S. 427. The series of the princi- 
pal California cases on the point will be found cited in Bissell v. Hen- 
skaw, 1 Sawy. 565 et seq. It is true that in Beard v. Federey there 
was no final decree of confirmation of the opposing grant. But in&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8mm8pg1gw9xbfjkimelzoxq8p1a12iw</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/656</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703024</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133104</id>
      <parentid>8170295</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: witli → with,  FBD →  FED, EPORTEB → EPORTER, AIi  → AL ,  BEPORT →  REPORT, removed: � (16)</comment>
      <origin>15133104</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2760" sha1="ed73dnfgiitvpebt6vsvpl6uxcexvde" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;64e FEDEEAL REPORTER. 
that the principal had on that day entered at the port of Ne-cf York 
100 baies of imported cinnamon, under the laws of the United States 
providing for the warehousing of marchandise in bond, and was con- 
ditional that the bond should be void &quot;if within one year the goods 
should be lawfully and regularly withdrawn on payment of duties and 
charges, or if, after one year, and within three years, they should be 
withdrawnon like payment, with 10 par cent, additional, or if within 
three years they should be so withdrawn for actual export !)eyond the 
United States; otherwise to remain in full force.&quot; 
The cinnamon, consisting of 9,364 pounds, was imported by De 
Visser for Townsend, Glinch &amp; Dyke. It was sold to them in bond 
at 10 cents per pound; was transferred to them shortly after impor- 
tation, and a memorandum thereof made on June 21, 1871, upon 
the withdrawal ledger of the custom-house. 
None of the cinnamon having been withdrawn, nor any of the du- 
ties paid, the goods were advertised for sale by the collector on the 
ninetoenth of July, 1876, as &quot;abandoned goods. &quot; This sale was post- 
poned by the collector, without the knowledge or consent of the defend- 
ants, upon the receipt of the following letter from the secretary of the 
treasury: 
&quot;Treasuhy Department, 
&quot;Washington, D. C, July 18, 1876. 
&quot;Colledor of CiMoms, New York — SiE: Mr. Solomon Townsend, repiesent- 
ing the late flrm (in liquidation) of iowusend, Clinch &amp; Dyke, lias luude Per- 
sonal application to the department for leave to export certain 100 baies cin- 
namon, marked ' C. J.,' which appear upon the catalogue of goods to be sold by 
your order on the 19th inst., as lot No. 254. 
&quot;The department declines at present to entertain the said application, but, 
upon the further request of Mr. Townsend, hereby authorizes and directs you 
to withdraw said lot from sale, and to retain the same in your cnstody until 
further advised by the department, provided the interests of the government 
will noE be prejudiced thereby. 
&quot; It is understood by the department that the continued possession of the 
goods, together with security offered by the bond given on the warehouse 
entry, will be amply sulucient to protect the government from loss by reason 
of the temporary withdrawal of said cinnamon from public sale, as hereby 
authorized. 
&quot; Please report to the department your action in the premises. 
&quot;Eespectfully, Lot M. Mokkill, Secretary.&quot; 
The cinnamon was thereafter sold by the collector at a similar 
Baie on October 17, 1877, realizing $573.50. The duties, at the rate 
of 20 cents per pound and 10 per cent, ad valorem, were liquidated 
on August 3, 1871, at $1,935.90, which, after adding penalty and&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ed73dnfgiitvpebt6vsvpl6uxcexvde</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/662</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703030</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133105</id>
      <parentid>8170302</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL, POBTER → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (6)</comment>
      <origin>15133105</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2853" sha1="jkpvln9r7u77kwjb6hutx5syb2m8z2o" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;650 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
of the period for payment of dutieg, and to secure prompt payment 
&quot;within the time intended to be limited by the warehouse acts, some 
provision of this kind was necessary. Moreover, the handling of the 
vast amount of warehoxised goods, the orderly collection of the 
duties upon them through the proper subordinate officers, and the 
necessity of a transfer of the goods to different handa for the purpose 
of a government sale, — in other words, the conveniencies of the pub- 
lic business, — also required that a period be fixed when the import- 
er's right to pay the duties and , to control the goods should cease, 
and when the government might proceed to sell without ineon- 
venience and without question. The varions acts passed since the 
adoption of the warehouse System show, I think, that the purpose of 
the statute in question was not only for convenience in the transac- 
tion of the public business, but especially, also, to secure the prompt 
payment of duties within the prescribed period. 
The aot of August 6, 184-6, (9 St. at Large, 53,) establishing the 
warehouse system, allowed but one year for the payment of duties, 
or for re-exportation without payment ; and it provided that in case 
any goods should remain in public store beyond one year without pay- 
ment, they should be sold by the colleetor, &quot;on due public notice given 
in the manner and for the time prescribed by the general regulations of 
the treasury department, and the proceeds of such sale, after deduet- 
ing storage, charges, expenses, and duties, should be paid over to the 
owner, importer, consignee, or agent.&quot; These regulations applied 
alike to goods deposited in public store for want of due entry, and 
to those entered for warehouse under the act. By act of March 3, 
1849, (9 St. at Large, p. 399, § 5,) a period of two years was allowed 
for exportation. By the act of March 28, 1854, (10 St. at Large, p. 
271, § 4,) it is provided that &quot;all goods entered for warehousing i;nder 
bond may continue in warehouse, after payment of duties thereupon, 
for a period of three years from the date of original importation, 
and may be withdrawn for consumption on due entry and payment 
of the duties and charges, or, upon entry for exportation, without the 
payment of duties, at any time within the period aforesaid; in the 
latter case the goods to be subject only to the payment of such stor- 
age and charges as. may be due thereon.&quot; By the act of August 5, 
1861, (12 St. at Large, p. 293, § 5,) it is provided that &quot;all goods 
thereafter deposited in bonded warehouse, if designed for consump- 
tion in the United States, must be withdrawn, or the duties paid, 
within three months after the same are deposited,&quot; or &quot;within tico 
years, upon payment of the duties, with 25 per cent, additional,&quot; or&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jkpvln9r7u77kwjb6hutx5syb2m8z2o</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/668</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703036</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133106</id>
      <parentid>14627565</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EPORTEB → EPORTER,  FEDBB →  FEDER, DERAL BE → DERAL RE, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133106</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2829" sha1="d38fbrip20p0wl4hcnor5w2osxioz7d" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;656 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
TJntil after the sale, therefore, there is never a moment when the 
surety has any power to do anythiiig for his own protection, either 
by payment, subrogation, or suit against his principal. His risk, 
therefore, necessariiy continues up to that time. It is the sale which 
first puis a period to his risk ; until then his hands are tied, and he 
oan take no steps against his principal for his indemnity. 
In this point of view, therefore, the provision for the sale in the 
statute of 1861 becomes of vital importance to the surety, siuce it is 
that which determines the duration of his risk, and when it may be 
terminated. The surety is entitled to the benefit of the provision for 
the sale in terminating his risk, because it is a part of the same stat- 
ute which enters by necessary implication into his contract, so as to 
eut ofi or suspend his ordinary right to end his liability by payment 
and subrogation immediately on the lapse of three years ; and if the 
statute forms a part of the bond for this purpose, then it must also 
form a part of it for the purpose of fixing the time when this suspen- 
sion of his ordinary rights shall cease. The same statutory provis- 
ion cannot be both in the contract and out of it at the same time. The 
provision for the &quot;sale&quot; is an inseparable part of the provision for 
the abandonment of the goods to the government ; and if the surety's 
ordinary rights to terminais his risk by payment and subrogation are 
eut off by the latter, he must be entitled to whatever protection, in 
limiting the duration of his risk, the clause providing for a sale may 
afford him ; and this provision enures to his benefit as a part of the 
implied terms of the bond. The provision for a sale in this statute 
is, therefore, as much &quot;an obligation owing direetly to the surety&quot; as 
the provision for an abandonment of the goods to the government is 
an enactment operating direetly to defeat his ordinary rights. The 
postponement of the sale was, therefore, a violation of a duty owed to 
the surety under this bond, and involved a prolongation of his risk 
beyond the period contemplated by law and by the implied terms of 
his contract, upon the observance of which he had a legal right to 
rely. 
Any different construction seems to me to be unreasonable, and to 
place sureties in a most anomalous position. Warehouse bonds with 
such sureties are now required by law (section 29G4) to the amount 
of nearly $100,000,000 annually at this port alone. While requir- 
ing sureties to this vast extent, it seems scarcely reasonable to hold 
that the law was intended to eut off their ordinary right of self-pro- 
tection through payment and subrogation at the end of three years, 
without any provision as a substitute unon which the sureties might&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>d38fbrip20p0wl4hcnor5w2osxioz7d</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/672</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703040</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133107</id>
      <parentid>8170312</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PEDEBAL →  FEDERAL,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133107</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1816" sha1="k9iviwrhstxgnfwd76bpxyuid7e5kue" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;6 GO FEDERAL REPOBTEE. 
as involving a prolongation of his risk bcyond the period contem- 
plated by the implied terms of his agreemeut. 
The case of De Visser, the principal in the bond, is different. It 
does not appear that upon his sale to Townsend, Clinch &amp; Dike the 
latter personally assumed to pay the duties, or, if they did, that the 
officers of the government were apprised of that fact. The govern- 
ment, therefore, had no other principal to look to than De Visser. 
He was liable for the whole duties as importer, without limitation of 
time and irrespeetive of the goods held as security. U. S. v. Phelps, 
17 Blatchf. 312, 316; Du7nont v. U. S. 98 U. S. 142, 144; U.S. y. 
Coiisinery, 7 Ben. 251; U. S. v. Westray, 18 Wall. 322. It does not 
appear, therefore, that he ever became, even in equity, a surety for any 
other person as principal to whom he eould look for indemnity. The 
postponement of the sale involved, as respects him, no increase of 
risk, and no defeat or postponement of any right of reconrse against 
another. His liability to be called on for payment might, upon suf- 
ficient facts proved, be postponed in equity, irrespective of the stat- 
ute, until a sale of the goods had been had ; but this equitable right 
bas been observed. The injury to him, if any, would consist solely 
in delay in disposing of the security; and that alone, without notice 
from him to sell, or damages proved, is no defenoe. 
Judgment must, therefore, be rendered in favor of the defendant 
Turnure, and against the defendant De Visser, with costs. 
As the questions involved concern the daily transactions of the gov- 
ernment to a large amount, I have given to the subject, in the 
absence of any known adjudications, the consideration which its im- 
portance has seemed to demand.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>k9iviwrhstxgnfwd76bpxyuid7e5kue</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/678</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703046</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133108</id>
      <parentid>14027856</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tho  →  the ,  PBD →  FED, POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (20)</comment>
      <origin>15133108</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2033" sha1="0wxcvzdlhavyb48jrgzwbzlouywv8mn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;666 FEDERiL BKPORTER. 
WOOSTER V. H0W3 MACHINE Co.* 
{Œreuit Court, 8. D. New York. February 10, 1882.) 
1. PliACTICE— EXTEKSION OF TlSEE TO TaEB TESTIMONr. 
The time to take tegtimony extended, where such testiraony, if admissilite 
nnder the answer, applies eciually to other cases in which the time to put in 
proofs had net expired. 
In Equity. 
F. H. Betts, for plaintiff. 
J. F.Dillon and W. H. L. Lee, for defendants. 
BiATCHFOED, C. J. In this case, and in the cases against Schenck 
and the Singer Company, if these three cases stood alone, and there 
were net the two cases in which the three months have not expired, 
and in which the testimony referred to in the notice of motion has 
been or can be put in, I should regard the defendants as precluded 
by laches and by their stipulation from asking for the extension in 
these three cases to put in such testimony. But, as the testimony 
will apply to every case equally with every other case if admissible 
under the answer in the case, it seems proper, as the testimony ia 
not fully closed, to allow the extension for the purpose named in the 
notice, subject to all objections to be made, or already made, on the 
record to its admissibility or relevancy, except the objection that the 
time to take it has expired. 
Schneider v. LovsLii and another.* 
[Gireuit Court, 8. D. New Y&amp;rTt,. February 10, 1882.) 
1. Lettetis Patent — Shade-Holderb fot: Lamps— Constkuction op. 
Reissue 7,511, granted to B. B. Schneider, February 13, 1877, for an &quot;im- 
provement in shade-holders for lamps,&quot; Tidd to be limited to the particulai 
form of shade sliown in the drawings, as nothing is ssiid in the specification or 
daims as to the sliape or size or proportion of the parts of the shade. 
Gifford d Gifford, for plaintiff. 
J. P. Fitch, for defendants. 
Blatchfokd, c. j. This suit is bronght on reissned letters patent No. 
7,511, granted to the plaintiff, February 13, 1877, for an &quot;improve- 
♦Reported by S. Nelson White, Esq., of the New York bar.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0wxcvzdlhavyb48jrgzwbzlouywv8mn</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/708</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703076</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133110</id>
      <parentid>12451930</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (16)</comment>
      <origin>15133110</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3150" sha1="97tvaz02eud5zfpn8gluddcslxjk2ej" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;69e fEUSBAL BEFORTER. 
MooH and another v. Vibginia Pire k Marine Ins. Co. 
[Oircull Court, B. B. Virginia. February, 1882.) 
L JuEisDiCTioir— Rb8 Adjudicata. 
Where a court of general jurisdiction in another sovereignty has passed upon 
the question of its own jurisdiction, when expressly raised by plea and neces- 
sarily considered in giving judgment, the parties to auch suit are bound in a 
home court under the principle of res adjudicata. 
%. Bame— FoREiGN Judgment — Estoppel. 
In such a suit against an insurance company in a home court on a judgment 
from a court of another sovereignty, though the court may looli behind the 
judgment of the court a quo into the question of the jurisdiction of that court 
over the subject-matter or parties, and into the validity of the process by which 
suit there was commenced ; yet this power does not, as of course, relieve par- 
ties to the suits from the operation of the principle of re» adjudicata. 
3. Instjrancib Company — Non-Rebident— Service of Procbss on Rbsiobnt 
Agent. 
An insurance company, chartered and reaident in one state, which does busi- 
ness in another state through an agent there, who recoives risks, collects 
premiums, signs and delivers policies, and transacts the business usually done 
by the resident agent of a non-resident corporation, may be sued in that state, 
if its statute law does not forbid, by the service of process on that agent, 
whether he has express power of attorney to receive or aocept such service or 
not. 
4. Same — Statb Law as to Non-Rksident Corporations. 
And this is especially so where a law of such state requires every non-resi- 
dent insurance company to have at least one agent in the state empowered to 
receive service of process, and requires evert/ agent who receives risks, or col- 
leots premiums, or transacts business for such company, to have a certiticate of 
such warrant. 
6. Practice — Plea to JtrRisDiOTiON — Decision on, is Binding Eveuywhere. 
A peremptory exception, such as is used in the practice in Louisiana, which 
denies that a resident agent of a non-resident insurance corporation is such 
an agent as that service upon him of process for commencing a suit will bring 
the corporation into court, is equivalent to the common-law plea to the juris- 
diction ; and, although it alleges that the defendant corporation appears 
&quot;alone to file it,&quot; it submits the question of jurisdiction to the court in such 
manner that judgment against the defendant, upon it there, by a court of gen- 
erai jurisdiction, binds the defendants everywhere. 
This is an action brought upon a judgment for $3,000, with inter- 
est and costs, obtained by the plaintiff against the defendant in the 
district court of the parish of Caddo, Loaisiana, on the twelfth of 
April, 1879. The judgment in Louisiana was obtained on a policy 
of fire insurance issued by the defendant to the plaintiff, through 
John W. Taber, its agent at Shreveport. Process there was issued 
on the seventeenth of January, 1879, against the defendant company, 
&quot;through its agent, John W. Taber,&quot; and was served on Taber. The&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>97tvaz02eud5zfpn8gluddcslxjk2ej</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/712</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703081</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133111</id>
      <parentid>14558867</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDBB →  FEDER, DERAL BE → DERAL RE, POKTER → PORTER, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133111</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2706" sha1="fnpnlwlrrhlkjxf9xb3wk2istxltfpo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;700 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
Without meaning to refer to such &quot;exceptions&quot; in general, I have 
to say that, for reasons given in the sequel, I caimot take tfae lutter 
view of the peremptory &quot;exception&quot; which was pleaded in the suit 
between these parties in Louisiana, the judgment in which is sued 
upon here. The Code of Practice in Louisiana dofines pereuiptory 
exceptions to be &quot;those which tend to the dismissal of the suit;&quot; 
some of them relating to forms, others arisiug from the law. the 
exception in this case tended to the dismissal of the suit on the 
ground that, as a matter of law, the defendant could not be brought 
into court by service of process upon the agent who, as the petition 
alleged and the exception did not deny, negotiated the insurance, 
received the premiums, delivered the policy, and was the acting agent 
of the defendant in the city of Shreveport ; could not, for the reason 
that he was not what the plea calls the &quot;general&quot; agent of the Com- 
pany in Louisiana, appointed in accordance with the law concerning 
non-resident insurance companies enacted in 1877. 
I consider that such was the matter of law fornially submitted for 
decision on the twelfth of April, 1879, by defendant 's counael io the 
exception set eut in the record; and though the court, in its judgment 
rendered on that day, probably after argument on the exception, does 
not expressly declare that the exception was formally overruled, yet 
that it was overruled is a necessary implication from the tenor of the 
j udgment. 
The court of Louisiana having decided that the defendant was 
before it by force of the service of citation on its agent, Taber, and 
not merely byits appearance &quot;alone to file&quot; the exception, it may not 
be competent for me to pass upon the propriety of that decision ; but I 
feel bound by the earnestness of defendant's contention to looli behind 
the judgment of the court a quo, into the validity of the process by 
which the defendant was held to have been brought into court. 
That a corporation doing business in a state other than that from 
which its charter is derived, and in which its principal office is held 
and its chief business is conducted, — doing business there and every- 
where else, as corporations must of necesity do, through the agency 
of natural persons, — may be sued and brought into court in that state 
by the service of process on its agent there, independently of any stat- 
ute law or warrant of attorney expressly authorizing such service, 
has been very authoritatively decided. 
The case of Moulin v. Ins. Co. 1 Dutcher, 57, was similar to the 
one at bar in its essential features, except that there, there was no&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fnpnlwlrrhlkjxf9xb3wk2istxltfpo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/740</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703109</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133112</id>
      <parentid>14027858</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPORT →  REPORT,  FEDBB →  FEDER, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133112</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2741" sha1="0vts80zi29ggft7lqgvs7ezuph2gp3u" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;728 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
part of defendant's rider which, if true, would show an intentional 
fouling of plaintifs horse. 
The defendant has given proof tending to show that his mare was 
in the lead well ahead of Wolverton when he fell, and that hia fall was 
occasioned either by collision with some other horse, or by his stum- 
bling, or some other inherent weakness. The proof ou the part of 
defendant tends to show that immediately after leaving the wire the 
Belle of Nelson and the horse Clan Alpine rushed to the front; that 
they became the leading horses in the race and were clear ahead, a 
length or more, of Nero and Wolverton at the first turn, and at the 
time when Wolverton fell, so that a collision between Wolverton and 
the Belle of Nelson, according to the testimony of the plaintifs wit- 
nesses, was impossible; the defendant's proof, as I have said, tending 
to show that the Belle of Nelson and Clan Alpine took the lead within 
a few jumps after leaving the wire, and that she could not have col- 
lided with Wolverton at the turn, as she had been ahead of him for 
quite a distance before they reaohed the turn. The defendant has 
also given proof tending to show that plaintiff's horse was badly rid- 
den ; that his rider was incompetent and did not understand the 
proper management of his horse, and that the horse was out of con- 
dition; that hehad stumbled in his exercises before the race, and was 
in such condition as to be liable to fall upon being pushed to his 
utmost in the second heat of a contest like this 
You will see, therefore, that there is a oonflict of testimony here, 
which you must settle, as to whether this injury was occasioned by 
the fault of defendant's jockey. 
It is for you to say which one of these witnesses you will believe, or 
where you will place credence ; not that you must necessarily conclude 
that either of these witnesses have sworn falsely, because you must 
see from the manner in which these witnesses have testified that it 
was very difficult to judge just exactly, at the critical moment when 
this horse fell, what horse was next to him, or what horse caused 
him to fall, or what did actually cause him to fall. 
The whole matter seems to have occurred instantaneously, and wit- 
nesses of equal intelligence and equal credibility have given you dif- 
ferent versions of the way in which this accident occurred, and the 
manner in which the horse fell, and what horse was nearest to him. 
Some say the Belle of Nelson was ahead; some say she was clear 
ahead of him — more than a length ; and others say she was running 
with Wolverton's nose about at her saddle-girth, when her rider pulled 
her in ahead of him and thereby tripped him up.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0vts80zi29ggft7lqgvs7ezuph2gp3u</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/752</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703121</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133113</id>
      <parentid>15130868</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, POKTER → PORTER</comment>
      <origin>15133113</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3654" sha1="twdmel0fq78lphndfjnqd52672bp59t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;740 
FEDEEAL REPORTER. 
reasonable and founded in good public policy. It will be seen I5y the author- 
ities hereafter referred to that wh crever carriers or inn-keepers have been 
permitted to provide separate accommodations, that it bas been required that 
such accommodations should afford equal advantages and facUities in every 
respect with thoae furnished whites; and even this discrimination, limited as 
I have mentioned, is not clearly justifiable. Cooley, Torts, 283 et seq.; 
Westchester, etc., R. Co. v. Miller, 55 Pa. St. 200. 
The case of Railroad Co. v. Brown, 17 Wall. 446, arose under an act grant- 
ing certain privileges to a railroad company, which provided that &quot;no person 
shall be excluded f rom the cars on account of color ;&quot; and the supreme court of 
the United States held &quot; that this meant that persons of color should travel iu 
the same cars that white ones did, and along with them in such cars ; and that 
the enaetment was not satisfled by the company providing cars assigned 
exclusively to persons of color, though they were as good as tiiose assigned 
exclusively for white persons, and, in fact, the very cars which were, at cer- 
tain times, assigned exclusively to white persons.&quot; In Chicago, etc., Ry. Co. 
v. Williams, 55 111. 185; S. C. 8 Am. Rep. 641, (1870,) it was held that, if a 
car had been set apart for the exclusive use of ladies, and gentlemen accom- 
panied by ladies, a colored woman eould not be excluded upon the ground of 
her color; but the court suggested that the carrier's duty would probably be 
performed if it furnished a separate car or seats equally as comfortable for 
colored women. See Bay v. Owen, 5 Mich. 520, (1858;) Thompson, Car. 
Pass. 335; Hutchinson, Carriers. Where a colored lady passenger on a 
steam-boat was not permitted to dine in the cabin, but was ofEered accommo- 
dations on the guards or in the pantry, a recovery against the carrier was siis- 
tained. The court held that under the laws and constitution, and its amend- 
ments, of the state of Iowa and of the federal government, a person of color is 
entitled to the same rights and privileges when traveling as a white person, 
and cannot be required by any rule or custom, based on distinctions of race or 
color, to accept other or different accommodations than those furnished to 
white persons. Coger v. N. W. Union Pack. Co. 37 Iowa, 145. See this case 
referred to by Justice Clifford in Hall v. De Cuir, 95 U. S. 507, 508. A rail- 
road company may rightfully exclude from the ladies' car a female passenger 
whose reputation is so notoriously bad as to furnish reasonable grounds to 
believe that her conduct will be offensive, or whose demeanor at the time is 
annoying to other passengera ; but mere unchastity will not warrant her ex- 
clusion from such car whether she be white or colored. Brown v. Memphis, 
etc., R. Co. 5 FED. Eep. 499; 11 Hep. 424; 12 Cent. Law J. 442. Inn-keepers 
and carriers may provide separate accommodations for colored guests and 
passengers, but they must be equal in quality and eonvenience with those 
furnished white persons. TJie Civil Rights Bill, 1 Iluglies, 541, 547; &amp;reen v. 
City of Bridgetown, (Dist. Ga.) 9 Cent. Law J. 206. See Cully v. B. &amp; O. R. 
Co. 1 Hughes, 536. Also under the Pennsylvania statute prohibiting classifi- 
cation on account of color. Central R. Co. v. Qreen, 86 Pa. St. 427. Laws 
have been adopted in some states securing to all persons equal rights in the 
vehioles of common carriers, at theaters, inns, etc., and giving a right of action 
for the deniai thereof ; and such legislation bas been fully sustained. Joseph&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>twdmel0fq78lphndfjnqd52672bp59t</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/766</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703136</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133114</id>
      <parentid>8170413</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED,  FEDBB →  FEDER, EDERAIi  → EDERAL ,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133114</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2615" sha1="8lkjppnrrvqd8s4pwgvb577d3t1mma3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;75e FEDERAL REPORTER. 
seeing the green light hails of warning were shouted by those on 
the schooner; that the schooner made no effort to change her course 
until the steamer was in the act of striking her, when her master 
ordered her helm hard a-port to ease the blow, but before the order 
could be executed the steamer struck her port aide, nearly amidship, 
and she sank in a few minutes. 
The case for the steamer, as stated in the answer, is that she was 
on a course N. by E., her speed six and one-half miles an hour, in 
charge of a pilot, when the lookout reported a white light a point or 
a point and a half off the steamer's starboard bow, apparently borne 
by a vessel at anchor; that the pilot, upon looking at the light for a 
short time with a glass, discovered that it was on a vessel under way, 
showing no side light, and that she was changing her course and 
going across the steamer's bow; that thereupon he signalled to 
reverse the engines full speed astern, and ordered the wheel hard 
a-port ; that at the moment of collision, which occurred very shortly 
afterwards, the steamer's headway was almost checked, aud her bow 
was going off to, the starboard or eastward. 
The allegations of the libel and of the answer are contradictory in 
almost every material point, and the testimony adduced in support 
of each utterly irreooncilable. I have found the attempt to discover 
how the collision was brought about attended with more than the 
usual embarrassment. At the conclusion of the first hearing I was 
strongly inclined to take the same view of the case as at present, but 
a great anxiety lest by overlooking some fact, or failing properly to 
estimate some portion of the testimony, I might be doing injustice to 
men v^ho have already been great sufferers by this disaster, caused 
me to hesitate. After a second hearing I find my first impressions 
strengthened, and I am able to adhere to them with increased confi- 
dence since the learned circuit judge, with his larger experience in 
dealing with such cases, bas independently arrived at the same de- 
termination. 
Why it is that in case of direct conflict the statements of some 
witnesses eonvince the mind, and the statements of others fail to du 
so, is of ten difficult of explanation, and in this case I shall be able to 
do hardly more than indicate some of the considerations which have 
had influence in bringing us to the conclusions I am now to an- 
nounce. 
It is first to be noticed that the case stated in the libel is highly 
improbable. It is alleged that the red light of the steamer was seeu&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8lkjppnrrvqd8s4pwgvb577d3t1mma3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/782</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703152</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133115</id>
      <parentid>12096743</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FEDEEAL →  FEDERAL,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, ORTEE → ORTER, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133115</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2596" sha1="4f3o49va5id4b3hau95nzs0ou7uixa5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;770 FEDERAL REPORTER, 
compliance with their bills of lading, and in their rate of charges 
for freight. One advertisment in an AUegheny newspaper was 
offered in evidence, in which the Mollie Moore, one of the steam- 
ers attached, is announced as forming, with the Yaeger and three 
other steamers, the Kountz line steamers, running from St. Louis to 
New Orleans, from the Kountz line wharf-boat, St. Louis, and the 
public were invited to apply for further information to &quot;John W. 
King, Kountz line wharf-boat. St. Louis, Mo. ; &quot; &quot;G. L. Brennan, Kountz 
line office, 106 Gravier street, New Orleans;&quot; &quot;or to W. J. Kountz, 
AUegheny, Pa.&quot; 
But the evidence establishes that the aceounts of each of these 
boats were kept upon the booka of the Kountz line separately, and that 
in these accounts each boat was credited with all its own earuings, 
after deducting $150 as the charge of the Kountz line for each 
trip ; that each boat was charged with the priee of goods purffhased 
for and forwarded by it, and was separately credited with the pro- 
ceeds of all the goods carried by it when sold. The evidence also 
shows that in two of these boat corporations a dividend had been 
declared, and that in case of one of these boats the corporation which 
owned it, out of its earnings, had built a second boat, which it con- 
tinued to own, and which also ran under the management of the 
Kountz line. 
The question presented is whether the bills of lading issued by King, 
agent of the Kountz line, for goods shipped by the Yaeger, bound the 
owners of the Yaeger alone, or whether they bound the owners of all 
the boats which ran in or constituted the Kountz line steamers. 
These bills of lading were issued by the &quot;agent of the Kountz line,&quot; 
i. e., by the Kountz line, and the question is whether the relations of 
the boats were such, either when viewed as actually existing or when 
considered as they were held out to the public as existing, as to make 
the Mil of lading issued for one boat the act of the owners of all the 
boats which were operated by a eommon agent, and were so con- 
nected that they constituted one line. 
The questions as to the joint liability of carriers for the acts 
of a eommon agent bas most frequently arisen with reference to 
transportation over connected lines, but in principle the question is 
the same where the owners, having a single agent, represent, not 
different sections of a continuons route, but different vehicles trav- 
ersing the same route. The cases with reference to this question 
divide themselves into three classes:&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4f3o49va5id4b3hau95nzs0ou7uixa5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/820</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703190</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133116</id>
      <parentid>8170470</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EPORTEB → EPORTER, EDEBAL  → EDERAL ,  TEDERAL →  FEDERAL, DERAL BE → DERAL RE, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133116</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2728" sha1="oucikue4a694e0zrbddtb0c2os84o2e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;808 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
make examination of the matter, and may liold to bail oi commit the 
prisoner to the jail of his own county or to the jail of the county in 
which the offence was committed. If he commits to the jail of his 
own county, I am inclined to think that his power ceases, and he can- 
not afterwards issue a warrant to transport such prisoner to another 
county for trial. This transportation can only properly be done by 
a writ of habeas corpus issued by a judge of a court of superior juris- 
diction. 
In England it was provided by the habeas corpus act that if any 
subject should be committed to any prison, or in custody of any officer, 
for any supposed criminal matter, he should not be removed from 
such custody iuto the custody of any other officer unless it be by 
liaheas corpus or some other legal writ. 1 Chit. C. L. 108. 
I believe, however, that the general practice in this state is that 
the sheriff or jailer, having a prisoner in custody, conveys him to 
the proper county for trial, upon the request of the proaecuting officer, 
without being required so to do by writ of habeas corpus. The writ 
of habeas corpus especially provided for in the statutes of this state 
and of the United States is the high prerogative writ of right granted 
upon the application of a person illegally imprisoned or in any way 
restrained of his liberty. We must look to the common law for guidance 
in the use of the aneillary writ of habeas corpus to remove a prisoner 
to take his trial in the county where the ofience was committed. 
Power to award such writ is conferred in general terms by statute 
upon courts of the United States. 
The powers and duties of a commissioner are co-extensive with the 
limits of the judicial district in which he is appointed, and he may in 
the iirst instance commit a prisoner to the jailer of the county in 
which the United States court is held, but I think it best for him to 
commit to the jailer of the county of residence, that the prisoner may 
have convenient opportunity of procuring sureties or bail. If the 
commitment be to the last-mentioned jail without any qualification, 
the commissioner bas no further control over the prisoner except to 
admit him to bail. Under a statute of thia state justices of the 
peace have power to let to bail persons committed to prison charged 
with crime in all cases where the punishment is not capital; and the 
recognizanee taken must be filed with the clerk of the court of trial. 
Bat. Eev. c. 33, § 38. Commissioners have similar powers in United 
States cases. 
When a prisoner gives notice that he is prepared and desires to 
give bail, a commissioner is not required by law to go to the jail to&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>oucikue4a694e0zrbddtb0c2os84o2e</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/830</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703200</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133117</id>
      <parentid>8170482</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: FBD →  FED,  FEDBB →  FEDER,  EEPO →  REPO, REPOB → REPOR, TEB. → TER., removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133117</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2792" sha1="a1rinrl620pl8yoqvfc0ns3lvdhoetq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;818 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
gdods have been once regularly withdrawn and the dufies paid as 
liquidated at the time of withdrawal, and after the lapse of the period 
of three yeare specified on the bond for payment. 
The question here presented could not arise as regards the importer 
himself, for he ia liable for any deficiency in payment of the lawful 
duties, irrespective of the withdrawal of the goods, and, prior to the 
act of 1874, reliquidation as against him might be had at any subse- 
quent time, and suit brought against him for the deficiency. U. S. 
V. Phelps, ITBIatchf. 312, 316; Dumont v. U. S. 98 U. S. 142, 144; 
U. S. V. Cousinery, 7 Ben. 251; Westray v. U. S. 18 Wall. 322. 
The situation of the surety is different. His liability is limited to 
the conditions of the bond itself. U. S. v. Dumont, 98 TJ. S. 142; 
Miller v. Stewart, 9 Wheat. 681; U. S. v. Boecker, 21 Wall. 652m. 
These conditions are that the bond should be &quot;void&quot; if in one year 
the goods should be regularly and lawfully withdrawn upon payment 
of the duties and charges to which they shall then be subject, or if they 
should be so withdrawn within three years, on payment of sueh duties 
and charges, and 10 per cent, additional. &quot; These goods were regularly 
and lawfully withdrawn within one year, i. «., in the usual and ous- 
tomary manner, upon payment of the duties as liquidated at that time. 
The &quot;legal duties&quot; to which the goods were &quot;then subject&quot; were, in 
legal contemplation, the duties as then liquidated and fixed by the 
collector. He and those under him are the persons charged by law 
with the duty of making the necessary examination of the goods, and 
of determining &quot;the rate and the amount of duties.&quot; By the act of 
June 30, 1864, under which this entry was made, it is declared that 
&quot;the decision of the collector as to the rate and amount of duties shall 
be final and conclusive against all persons interested therein, unless 
the owner appeal, etc., within 10 days after the ascertainment and 
liquidation of the duties by the properofficers,&quot; and that &quot;sueh goods 
shall be liable to duty accordingly, any act of eongress notwithstanding,&quot; 
etc. 13 St. at Large, c. 171 p. 214, § 14. 
In the case of U. S. v. Cousinery, 7 Ben. 255, which was approved 
by the chief justice in Watt v. U. S. 15 Blatchf. 33, Blatchford, C. 
J., says, in reference to this clause of the statute: &quot;This means that 
the decision (i e., of the collector, if there be no appeal, or of the sec- 
retary, if there be an appeal) is made the test and standard of the pay- 
ment of the daties to the government, even if there be an act of eon- 
gress which seems to prescribe something different from the decision.&quot; 
Page 257. And in the same case he also says : &quot;The amount fixed by&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>a1rinrl620pl8yoqvfc0ns3lvdhoetq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/858</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703228</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133118</id>
      <parentid>8170511</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: aiithor → author,  tho  →  the , POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (9)</comment>
      <origin>15133118</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2757" sha1="sigrm8vz9rx1y4007am5v1i2913w8nz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;846 PEbEEAL RBPORTER. 
section applies to any oiie other than a person within the category 
of pei'sons just before eniim'erated ; that is, a person sustaining some 
relation to the owner that authorizes him to employ the labor or 
purchase the material in question. 
- A mere trespasseror intruder upon the boat of another surely can- 
not fasten a lien upon it for the value of labor and materials used in 
unauthorized repairs thereon; 
As was said by this court in The Augusta, 5 Am. L. T. Eep, 495: 
&quot; A person -who puts work or materials ihto the ship of another as a 
mere trespasser or intruder, does not thereby become a material-man, 
entitled to a lien thereon for the value of such work or materials. 
But the consent of the owner may be implied from the circumstances 
of the case. For instance, when the respondent [the owner] con- 
tracted with Butter to repair the vessel, it was neeessarily implied 
that he might employ the libellants, and they might be so employed 
tO' Work thereon. They are, therefore, not intruders or strangers to 
this tessel, but persons employed to work thereon with the implied 
consent of the owner. &quot; 
It isadmitted by the answer that at the time alleged by the libellants 
that they- labored on the Gity of Salem she was in the possession of 
Stetfen under a contract with the respondent to repair her. This 
being so, he was authorized to employ the libellants to do any work 
upon her within the scope of his contract. Assuming that the libel- 
lants Weire employed by Steffen, and did the work on the boat, as 
they allege, they thereby acquired a lien thereon for the value of their 
laboi^. Neither is it necessary that they should, at the time of per- 
forming the labor, have expressed a purpose or oonsciously intended 
to claim a lien theref or upon the vessel. The law gives the lien upon 
the performance of the labor as a tneans of securing the payment for 
it; It is an incident which the law attaches to the, transaction, and 
can only be waived or discharged by an agreement or understanding 
to that effect on the part of the person eutitled to it. 
These exceptions for impertinence are well taken. It matters not, 
so far as the claims of the libellants are concerned, what controversy 
exists betweeu Steffen and his creditors, or how the respondent is 
involved in it — whether as garnishee or otherwise. If they perf ormed 
■ the work on the respondent's boat, as they allege they did, they have 
a lien thereon for its value, irrespective of the state of the accounts 
between him and Steffen, and are entitled to maintain this suit to 
estabMsh their claim, and enforce such lien by the sale of the boat. 
They are not creditors of the respondent, and the only relation&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>sigrm8vz9rx1y4007am5v1i2913w8nz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/862</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703232</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133120</id>
      <parentid>8170516</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: wbere → where,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (8)</comment>
      <origin>15133120</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3069" sha1="r9r70s26orhneacej6z25ddjtt0ix8g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;850 .FEDEBAl. REPOBTES. 
as follows: The N. E. J of the N. W. ^ of section 34, in towusbip 
No. 30 north, of range No. 15 west. 
The suit is founded in part upon a written contract entered into 
between the defendant Pati'ick Bellew on the one side, and Erastus 
Corning, Horatio Seymour, William Allen Butler, William Ef. Ogden, 
and other persons residing in the state of New York, and B. J. 
Stevens, residing in the state bf Wisconsin, land-owners, by Angus- 
tus Ledyard Smith, their attorney, on the other. This contract was 
made in Augast, 1875. The defendant Patrick Bellew was a.lum- 
berman residing in Wisconsin. The other parties to the contract 
were the owners in severalty of large quantities of pine lands lying 
in northern Wisconsin. By the contract they, through their agent, 
AugustuB Ledyard Smith, residing at Appleton,' Wisconsin, agree to 
sell to Bellew a quantity of pine lands lying in the county of St. 
Croix, the price to be determined by an estimate to. be afterwards 
made of the amount of pine timber upon each description of land at 
$2.50 an acre for the stumpage. They also agree to sell to Bellew 
the pine timber upon certain other lands described in the contract 
at the rate of |3. 50 per thousand feet for stumpage. 
Bellew is to build a saw-mill worth $9,000 upon one of the 40- 
acre tracts of land included in the contract, to be selected by him, 
and the other parties to the contract agree to give him title to the 40 
acres so selected for the mill site, after which Bellew is to have the 
privilege of mortgaging the land selected for the mill site to an out- 
side party in the sum of $6,500, and then is to give a second mort- 
gage back to the other parties to the contract to secure the faithf ul 
performance of the contract. The material provision in the contract, 
on which the suit is in part founded, is as follows : 
&quot;And the said party of the second part does hereby covenant and agree 
witTi the said parties of the flrst part, for and in consideration of one dollar, 
to him in hand paidj the receipt whereof is hereby acknowledged, to build, 
maintain, and erect a good, substantial saw-mill upon certain lands, to be 
hereinafter described ; the mill to be of the value of at least $9,000. The land 
upon which said mill is to be built is to be hereafter selected by the party of 
the second part, and the forty upon which it is built and erected is to be con- 
veyed by the parties of the tirst part, by good and sufflcient deed, conveying 
to the party of the second part the title thereof iu fee-siraple. And, the said 
party of the second part is to have the right to mortgage the forty upon 
which the said mill is built, after the same shall have beeu cqnvjeyed to him 
as aforesaid, to an outside or third party, in a sum not exceeding $6,500, and 
after the same is so mortgaged he covenanta and agrees to giVe to the party 
of the flrst part a second mortgage on the said laid upon wMch the- mill is 
built, as aforesaid, and which is couveyed to him, as aforesaid, :artd which said&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>r9r70s26orhneacej6z25ddjtt0ix8g</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/890</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703260</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133121</id>
      <parentid>8170546</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: POBTER → PORTER,  EBPO →  REPO, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133121</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2672" sha1="7gzdwu2zzhxi6q8llnmrrlazc1l1ucz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;878 FEDERAL REPORTER. 
accumulated, and the respondent bought it for the purpose of remanufacture 
into snufE or cigars, then the defendant Is not liable for having it in his pos- 
session, as he bought it; and, (3) that if the government tax had been paid 
upon it prior to the time alleged in the indictment, then the defendant is not 
liable. 
The verdict of the jury settles conclusively the fact that this was 
manufactured tobacco. The Laws of 1868, July 30, § 78, (15 St. at 
Large, 169,) provide that &quot;after the first day of Jannary, 1869, all 
smoking, fine-cut chewing tobacco, or snuff, and after the first day of 
July, 1869, all other manufactured tobacco of every description, shall 
be taken and deemed as having been manufactured after the passage 
of this act,&quot; — that is, the aet of July 20, 1868; so that this tobacco, 
whenever manufactured, being on hand after the time fixed by the 
statute, must be taken and deemed to have been manufactured 
since the passage of that act, and be treated as such. If actually 
manufactured before that time, it must be treated as if manu, 
factured afterwards, and the court could not instruct the jury that 
the defendant was not liable if the tobacco was manufactured 
before. The law settled that matter, and it was a matter imma- 
terial to the jury, as the judge who tried the cause charged. 
Again, the statute of July 20, 1868, § 71, under which section the 
respondent is indicted, (15 St. at Large, 156,) provides that any 
person who shall use, sell, or offer for sale, or have in posses- 
sion, except in the manufaetory or in a bonded warehouse, any 
manufactured tobacco, or snuff, without proper stamps affixed and 
caneelled, shall on conviction thereof be liable to the penalty therein 
prescribed. The language is any manufactured tobacco. There is 
no exception of refuse or worthless tobacco, or of tobacco to be re- 
manufactured, or of tobacco on which the tax bas been paid, or any 
other kind. Therein is included every kind of manufactured tobacco, 
no matter what its value or condition, or what the person who bas it 
in possession is about to do with it, if it be out of the manufaetory, 
and not in a bonded warehouse, it must be stamped and the stamps 
caneelled. 
The government bas imposed a tax on all kinds of manufactured 
tobacco, even refuse scraps and sweepings; have required it to be 
put up in a particular way or ways, and to be stamped with stamps, 
for the.payment of the tax, and the stamps caneelled; and have im- 
posed this penalty, not for, having in possession manufactured tcoacco 
pn which the tax has been paid, but manufactured tobacco on which&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7gzdwu2zzhxi6q8llnmrrlazc1l1ucz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/932</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703302</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133122</id>
      <parentid>8170591</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: I7th →  17th,  tho  →  the , POBTER → PORTER, removed: � (13)</comment>
      <origin>15133122</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3120" sha1="2t4jn3bq0gjn9nu0n62pmn0nxhi3n2v" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;920 FEDERAL BBPORTER. 
fi. Common-Law Lien Pkotbctbd. 
The common-law lien of a shipwright In possession Ls recognized and pro- 
tected in admiralty where the vessel ls seized under proceas of the court in 
other proceedings. 
6. Casb State d. 
■Where H., a shipwright, made repairs upon a vessel inhis yard beyond wnat 
was necessary, and enlarged her at the request of the cwners of seven-eighths, 
but with notice of dissent from the other part owner ; launched lier in course 
of the worli ; retained her in the stream adjacent to his yard ; worked upon her 
daily until three days prior to the time when she was seized by the marshal 
under process of this court upon a libel by another for supplies, and the ves- 
sel was still unflnighed in her forecastle and her center-board not being in, but 
in the shipwright's yard ; and the mate in the employ of the owner had contin- 
ued on the vessel from the time she was taken for repairs to the ship-yard until 
she was seized by the marshal, sleeping on board; and the captain with his son, 
after she was launched, having been more or less aboard with the shipwright's 
assent, though forbidden to interfere ; and the marshal, upon coming to arrest 
the vessel, being forbidden by H. on the ground that she was in his possession : 
HM, that the presence of the mate, and also of the captain upon sulierance, 
were not suflBcient evidence of any surrender of the vessel by H.; that the ves- 
sel continued in his possession in the stream, as upon shore, at the time when 
she was seized by the marshal ; and that H. was therefore entitled to intervene 
as a claimant for the protection of his interest as against the shares of those 
who employed him. 
Hearing on Exceptions to Intervenor's Claim. 
H. B. Kinghorn and R. D. Benedict, for libellant. 
Scudder d Carter and G. A . Black, for Hawkins, lienor. 
Brown, d. J. This hearing arises upon the report of the clerk, to 
whom it was referred on December 23, 1879, to take such testimony 
as might ie offered concerning the interest of John P. Hawkins in 
the Bchooner Two Marys, and his right to appear as claimant. The 
claim of Hawkins was filed September 22, 1879, and averred that he 
was in possession of the schooner at the time she was seized by the 
marshal on September 17th; that he had been repairing and recon- 
structing her; that his work was not completed, and the sum of 
$5,000 was due him. Libellant filed exceptive allegations to this 
claim, averring that Hawkins had no lien, was not in possession, had 
surrendered and abandoned her, that nothing was owing him, and 
that he had no interest in the vessel. 
At the time of seizure, Hawkins, and Crowley, the master, each 
claim to have been in possession. On the twenty-second of Septem- 
ber, Hawkins, as claimant, gave a bond for libellant's claim under 
the act of 1847, and the usual order for the release of the vessel was 
given on that day, and Hawkins received from the marshal a notice 
to the keeper for the discharge of the vessel. On going aboard he 
found Crowley already there. A controversy arose, the resuit of&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2t4jn3bq0gjn9nu0n62pmn0nxhi3n2v</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Federal Reporter, 1st Series, Volume 10.djvu/934</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>703304</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133123</id>
      <parentid>8170593</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: OBTER → ORTER, removed: � (7)</comment>
      <origin>15133123</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2780" sha1="9777oaa2tylw0u978knvc51uhowb3lc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;a22 FEDSSAL BEFORTER. 
has been taken. On behalf of the libellant it is claimed (1) that 
Hawkins never had any lien upon the vessel; (2) that if lie ever had 
such a lien it was lost by surrendering the vessel before the seizure 
by the marshal on the sixteenth of September, 
1. The lien claimed is simply that of a common-law possessory 
lien by Hawkins, the shipwright, for repairs while in bis possession. 
The libellant eontends that he never acquired any common-law lien, 
for the reason that he was notified by several of the owners, before 
proceeding with the work, that they protested against the proposed 
repairs; that, consequently, neither such owners nor their property 
could be made liable for repairs made against their consent; that no 
lien could, therefore, bind their interest in the schooner ; that there 
could be no common-law lien upon the interests of part owners only; 
and that under such circumstances the repairs must be presumed to 
have been made upon the personal credit of those who ordered them. 
It is also contended that Hawkins never had such exclusive posses- 
sion as would sustain a common-law lien. 
The vessel was sent by the libellant, about December 1, 1878, to 
Hawkins' ship-yard at City Island to be repaired, with directions to 
make first a preliminary examination to ascertain how much repair 
was necessary. The schooner was hauled on the ways and fouud to 
be in need of greater repairs than were anticipated. In February, 
1879, after the libellant had acquired almost the entire interest in the 
vessel, it was determined to substantially rebuild her. Captain 
Crowley accompanied the vessel to the yard, and remained with her 
a few days. The mate, Lawrence, in the employ of the libellant, 
remained with her while the repairs were going on, down to the time of 
her seizure by the marshal. He slept in the cabin until it was re- 
moved in the course of the repairs, and then continued to sleep in it, 
near by, until he was again put aboard the vessel. His meals were 
furnished by the libellant. He did such work as was assigned to 
him by Hawkins upon the schooner, as well as some odd jobs upon 
other vessels. The work of doing the repairs and rebuilding was 
under the exclusive management and control of Hawkins. While 
this was going on, the vessel, in my judgment, must be deemed to 
have been in the possession of Hawkins sufficient to sustain a 
common-law possessory lien. The presence of the mate during these 
repairs, in the pay of the libellant, whether as seaman or assistant, 
or for any other purpose, in looking after the interest of the libellant, 
was in no way incompatible with Hawkins' control of the work upon 
the vessel while in his yard undergoing repairs, or his possession for&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9777oaa2tylw0u978knvc51uhowb3lc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 58.djvu/147</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>707310</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133417</id>
      <parentid>8853998</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:54:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Added author and title links, header</comment>
      <origin>15133417</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5217" sha1="gpweekd6pak7k906d0pf853u782t3ha" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Charles Matthews&quot; /&gt;{{rh|Vansittart|139|Vansittart}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the council for joining in Clive's famous remonstrance of 1759, and placed his party in a minority. In addition the change sent Ellis, Vansittart's strongest opponent, to Patna, the residence of the nabob. Under these circumstances matters took a serious turn. The company's factors, annoyed at the restraint the nabob endeavoured to place on their exactions, retaliated by arresting his officers. Unable to afford redress, Vansittart endeavoured to pursue a policy of conciliation, and, while retaining the nabob's confidence, to soften the animosity of the council. After Warren Hastings, who had consistently supported Vansittart, had been despatched in August 1762 on a preliminary mission of investigation, Vansittart, at the end of the year, taking Hastings as assistant, visited the nabob at Mungír, whither he had removed to avoid Ellis. Vansittart came to an agreement with him whereby the goods of servants of the company should pay a duty of nine per cent., a rate far below that levied on native traders (Clive's speech in the House of Commons, 30 March 1772). This arrangement was immediately repudiated by the council on 1 March 1763, notwithstanding the protest of Vansittart and Warren Hastings, and the nabob, in exasperation, abolished the whole system of duties on internal trade. The council declared that his action was contrary to treaty obligations, and called on him to re-establish the customs. The subadar had long seen that a rupture was inevitable and had made preparations for war. Hostilities were commenced by Ellis, who made an unjustifiable and unsuccessful attack on Patna, was taken prisoner, and put to death at Patna with other European captives. Mír Kasim, after some successes, was overthrown by Major Thomas Adams (1730?–1764) [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], and sought refuge with the nawáb of Oudh. Vansittart, chagrined at the manner in which his policy had been thwarted, resigned the presidency on the conclusion of the war, and left Calcutta on 28 Nov. 1764.

He was assailed by his opponents in England with great vehemence both before and after his arrival. Clive, already aggrieved by the deposition of Mír Jafar, which he considered a reversal of his policy, had been completely alienated from Vansittart by a personal quarrel, and Vansittart was supported in the India House by Clive's opponent, Lawrence Sulivan. In 1764 Vansittart transmitted to London copies of the political correspondence during his administration, which were published by his friends under the title ‘Original Papers relative to the Disturbances in Bengal’ (London, 1764, 2 vols. 8vo). Finding on his arrival that the court of directors would not grant him an interview, he republished the papers with a connecting narrative under the title ‘A Narrative of the Transactions in Bengal from 1760 to 1764’ (London, 1766, 3 vols. 8vo). The rough draft of the narrative, with corrections by Warren Hastings, is preserved in the British Museum (Addit. MS. 29211).

On 16 March 1768 Vansittart was returned to parliament for the borough of Reading. The reports sent home by Clive, who had been despatched to Bengal with extraordinary powers, justified him in the eyes of the company by exposing the corruption existing among their servants in Bengal. Early in 1769 he was elected a director of the company. On 14 June 1769 he was appointed, together with Luke Scrafton, a former official, and Francis Forde [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], to proceed to India with the title of supervisor, and with authority to examine every department of administration. The three supervisors sailed from Portsmouth in September 1769 in the Aurora frigate, left Cape Town on 27 Dec., and were never heard of again (''Gent. Mag''. 1771 p. 237, 1773 pp. 346, 403, 1774 p. 85). {{DNB lkpl|Falconer, William (1732-1769)|William Falconer}} (1732–1769) [q.&amp;nbsp;v.], the author of the ‘[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]],’ who was on board in the capacity of purser, perished with them.

In 1754 Vansittart was married to Amilia (''d''. 1819), daughter of Nicholas Morse, governor of Madras. By her he left five sons—Henry, Arthur, Robert, George, and Nicholas, created Baron Bexley [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] —and two daughters, Ann and Sophia. In 1765 Vansittart purchased the manors of Great and Little Fawley, Whatcombe, and Foxley in Berkshire, as well as a house at Greenwich, which descended to his children.

Owing chiefly to his quarrel with Clive, Vansittart has been unjustly treated by writers on Indian history. His conduct in Bengal was far-sighted, and his dealings with the subadar were distinguished by statesmanlike moderation. On every question that arose his proceedings were in accordance with the principles to which his successors were eventually obliged to conform. Had he been vested with sufficient authority, his administration would have been brilliant, but, like Warren Hastings at a later time, he found himself at the mercy of a hostile majority in the council, and was able only to indicate the right policy, not to carry it out. He was a good scholar and linguist, and was the author of several oriental translations. His son Henry afterwards transmitted several to&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gpweekd6pak7k906d0pf853u782t3ha</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>The Nuttall Encyclopædia/F</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>714935</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133675</id>
      <parentid>14791277</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:28:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133675</origin>
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      <text bytes="215539" sha1="kmjga6upk2t79kmyapcwa8np4tyd1pb" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = [[../]]
 | author     = James Wood
 | translator = 
 | section    = F
 | previous   = [[../E/]]
 | next       = [[../G/]]
 | notes      = 
}}
{{c|{{font-size-x|140%|F}}}}


{{anchor|Faber, Frederick William}}'''Faber, Frederick William''', a Catholic divine and hymn-writer, born at
Calverley, Yorkshire; at Oxford he won the Newdigate Prize in 1836; for
three years was rector of Elton, but under the influence of Newman joined
the Church of Rome (1845), and after founding a brotherhood of converts
at Birmingham in 1849, took under his charge a London branch of the
Oratory of St. Philip Neri; wrote several meritorious theological works,
but his fame chiefly rests on his fine hymns, the &amp;ldquo;Pilgrims of the Night&amp;rdquo;
one of the most famous (1814-1863).

{{anchor|Faber, George Stanley}}'''Faber, George Stanley''', an Anglican divine, born in Holland; a
voluminous writer on theological subjects and prophecy (1773-1854).

{{anchor|Fabian, St.}}'''Fabian, St.''', Pope from 236 to 251; martyred along with St. Sebastian
during the persecution of Decius.

{{anchor|Fabian Society}}'''Fabian Society''', a middle-class socialist propaganda, founded in
1883, which &amp;ldquo;aims at the reorganisation of society by the emancipation of
land and industrial capital from individual and class ownership, and
vesting of them in the community for the general benefit&amp;rdquo;; has
lectureships, and issues &amp;ldquo;Essays&amp;rdquo; and &amp;ldquo;Tracts&amp;rdquo;; it watches and seizes its
opportunities to achieve Socialist results, and hence the name. See
[[../F#Fabius Quintus|Fabius Quintus]] (1).

{{anchor|Fabii}}'''Fabii''', a family of ancient Rome of 307 members, all of whom perished
in combat with the Veii, 477 B.C., all save one boy left behind in Rome,
from whom descended subsequent generations of the name.

{{anchor|Fabius Pictor}}'''Fabius Pictor''', the oldest annalist of Rome; his annals of great
value; 216 B.C.

{{anchor|Fabius Quintus}}'''Fabius Quintus''', (Maximus Verrucosus), a renowned Roman general, five
times consul, twice censor and dictator in 221 B.C.; famous for his
cautious generalship against Hannibal in the Second Punic War, harassing
to the enemy, which won him the surname of &amp;ldquo;Cunctator&amp;rdquo; or delayer; ''d''.
203 B.C.

{{anchor|Fabius Quintus}}'''Fabius Quintus''' (Rullianus), a noted Roman general, five times consul
and twice dictator; waged successful war against the Samnites in 323 B.C.

{{anchor|Fabius, The American}}'''Fabius, The American''', General Washington, so called from his Fabian
tactics. See [[../F#Fabius Quintus|Fabius Quintus]] (1).

{{anchor|Fable of the Bees}}'''Fable of the Bees''', a work by Mandeville, a fable showing how vice
makes some people happy and virtue miserable, conceived as bees.

{{anchor|Fabliaux}}'''Fabliaux''', a species of metrical tales of a light and satirical
nature in vogue widely in France during the 12th and 13th centuries; many
of the stories were of Oriental origin, but were infused with the French
spirit of the times; La Fontaine, Boccaccio, and Chaucer drew freely on
them; they are marked by all the vivacity and perspicuity, if also
lubricity, of their modern successors in the French novel and comic
drama.

{{anchor|Fabre, Jean}}'''Fabre, Jean''', a French Protestant, celebrated for his filial piety;
he took the place of his father in the galleys, who had been condemned to
toil in them on account of his religious opinions (1727-1797).

{{anchor|Fabre d'Eglantine}}'''Fabre d'Eglantine''', a French dramatic poet, born at Carcassonne;
wrote comedies; was a member of the Convention and of the Committee of
Public Safety, of the extreme party of the Revolution; falling under
suspicion, was guillotined along with Danton (1752-1794).

{{anchor|Fabricius, Caius}}'''Fabricius, Caius''', a Roman of the old school, distinguished for the
simplicity of his manners and his incorruptible integrity; his name has
become the synonym for a poor man who in public life deals honourably and
does not enrich himself; was consul 282 B.C.

{{anchor|Fabricius}}'''Fabricius''' or '''Fabrizio, Girolamo''', a famous Italian anatomist,
born at Aquapendente; became professor at Padua in 1565, where he gained
a world-wide reputation as a teacher; Harvey declares that he got his
first idea of the circulation of the blood from attending his lectures
(1537-1619).

{{anchor|Fabroni, Angelo}}'''Fabroni, Angelo''', a learned Italian, born in Tuscany; wrote the Lives
of the illustrious literati of Italy in the 17th and 18th centuries, and
earned for himself the name of the &amp;ldquo;Plutarch&amp;rdquo; of his country (1732-1803).

{{anchor|Facciolati, Jacopo}}'''Facciolati, Jacopo''', lexicographer, born at Torreglia; became a
professor of Theology and Logic at Padua; chiefly interested in classical
literature; he, in collaboration with an old pupil, Egidio Forcellini
(1688-1768), began the compilation of a new Latin dictionary, which was
completed and published two years after his death by his colleague; this
work has been the basis of all subsequent lexicons of the Latin language
(1682-1769).

{{anchor|Facial Angle}}'''Facial Angle''', an angle formed by drawing two lines, one horizontally
from the nostril to the ear, and the other perpendicularly from the
advancing part of the upper jawbone to the most prominent part of the
forehead, an angle by which the degree of intelligence and sagacity in
the several members of the animal kingdom is by some measured.

{{anchor|Faërie Queene}}'''Faërie Queene''', the name of an allegorical poem by Edmund Spenser, in
which 12 knights were, in twelve books, to represent as many virtues,
described as issuing forth from the castle of Gloriana, queen of England,
against certain impersonations of the vices and errors of the world. Such
was the plan of the poem, but only six of the books were finished, and
these contain the adventures of only six of the knights, representing
severally Holiness, Temperance, Chastity, Friendship, Justice, and
Courtesy.

{{anchor|Faed, John}}'''Faed, John''', a Scottish artist, son of a millwright, born at Barley
Mill, Kirkcudbright; was elected an A.R.S.A. in 1847, and R.S.A. in
1851; his paintings are chiefly of humble Scottish life, the &amp;ldquo;Cottar's
Saturday Night&amp;rdquo; among others; ''b''. 1820.

{{anchor|Faed, Thomas}}'''Faed, Thomas''', brother of the preceding, born at Barley Mill;
distinguished himself in his art studies at Edinburgh; went to London,
where his pictures of Scottish life won him a foremost place among those
of his contemporaries; was elected R.A. in 1864 and honorary member of
the Vienna Royal Academy; ''b''. 1826.

{{anchor|Faenza}}'''Faenza''' (14), an old Italian cathedral town, 31 m. SE. of Bologna;
noted for its manufacture of majolica ware, known from the name of the
town as &amp;ldquo;faience.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Fagel, Gaspar}}'''Fagel, Gaspar''', a Dutch statesman, distinguished for his integrity
and the firmness with which he repelled the attempts of Louis XIV.
against his country, and for his zeal in supporting the claims of the
Prince of Orange to the English throne (1629-1688).

{{anchor|Fagot vote}}'''Fagot vote''', a vote created by the partitioning of a property into as
many tenements as will entitle the holders to vote.

{{anchor|Fahrenheit, Gabriel Daniel}}'''Fahrenheit, Gabriel Daniel''', a celebrated physicist, born at Danzig;
spent much of his life in England, but finally settled in Holland;
devoted himself to physical research; is famed for his improvement of the
thermometer by substituting quicksilver for spirits of wine and inventing
a new scale, the freezing-point being 32&amp;deg; above zero and the boiling 212&amp;deg;
(1686-1736).

{{anchor|Faineant, Le Noir}}'''Faineant, Le Noir''', Richard Coeur-de-Lion in &amp;ldquo;Ivanhoe.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Faineants}}'''Faineants''' (''i. e''. the Do-nothings), the name given to the kings of
France of the Merovingian line from 670 to 752, from Thierry III. to
Childéric III., who were subject to their ministers, the mayors of the
palace, who discharged all their functions.

{{anchor|Fair City}}'''Fair City''', Perth, from the beauty of its surroundings.

{{anchor|Fair Maid of Kent}}'''Fair Maid of Kent''', the Countess of Salisbury, eventually wife of the
Black Prince, so called from her beauty.

{{anchor|Fair Maid of Norway}}'''Fair Maid of Norway''', daughter of Eric II. of Norway, and
granddaughter of Alexander III. of Scotland; died on her way from Norway
to succeed her grandfather on the throne of Scotland, an event which gave
rise to the famous struggle for the crown by rival competitors.

{{anchor|Fair Maid of Perth}}'''Fair Maid of Perth''', a beauty of the name of Kate Glover, the heroine
of Scott's novel of the name.

{{anchor|Fair Rosamond}}'''Fair Rosamond''', the mistress of Henry II.; kept in a secret bower at
Woodstock, in the heart of a labyrinth which only he could thread.

{{anchor|Fairbairn, Andrew M.}}'''Fairbairn, Andrew M.''', able and thoughtful theologian, born in
Edinburgh where he also graduated (1839); received the charge of the
Evangelical Church at Bathgate, and subsequently studied in Berlin. In
1878 became Principal of the Airedale Congregational College at Bradford;
was Muir Lecturer on Comparative Religions in Edinburgh University in
1881-83, and five years later was elected Principal of Mansfield College
at Oxford; author of &amp;ldquo;The Place of Christ in Modern Theology,&amp;rdquo; and
several other scholarly works; ''b''. 1838.

{{anchor|Fairbairn, Sir William}}'''Fairbairn, Sir William''', an eminent engineer, born at Kelso; served
an apprenticeship in N. Shields, and in 1817 started business in
Manchester, where he came to the front as a builder of iron ships;
improved upon Robert Stephenson's idea of a tubular bridge, and built
upwards of 1000 of these; introduced iron shafts into cotton mills, and
was employed by Government to test the suitability of iron for purposes
of defence; created a baronet in 1869 (1789-1874).

{{anchor|Fairfax, Edward}}'''Fairfax, Edward''', translator of Tasso, born at Denton, Yorkshire,
where he spent a quiet and studious life; his stately translation of
Tasso's &amp;ldquo;Gerusalemme Liberata&amp;rdquo; was published in 1600, and holds rank as
one of the best poetical translations in the language; he wrote also a
&amp;ldquo;Discourse&amp;rdquo; on witchcraft (about 1572-1632).

{{anchor|Fairfax, Thomas, Lord}}'''Fairfax, Thomas, Lord''', a distinguished Parliamentary general, nephew
of the preceding, born at Denton, Yorkshire; served in Holland, but in
1642 joined the Parliamentarians, of whose forces he became general
(1645); after distinguishing himself at Marston Moor and Naseby, was
superseded by Cromwell (1650), and retired into private life until
Cromwell's death, when he supported the restoration of Charles II. to the
English throne (1612-1671).

{{anchor|Fairies}}'''Fairies''', imaginary supernatural beings conceived of as of diminutive
size but in human shape, who play a conspicuous part in the traditions of
Europe during the Middle Ages, and are animated more or less by a spirit
of mischief out of a certain loving regard for, or humorous interest in,
the affairs of mankind, whether in the way of thwarting or helping.

{{anchor|Fairservice, Andrew}}'''Fairservice, Andrew''', a shrewd gardener in &amp;ldquo;Rob Roy.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Fairy Rings}}'''Fairy Rings''', circles of seemingly withered grass often seen in lawns
and meadows, caused by some fungi below the surface, but popularly
ascribed in superstitious times to fairies dancing in a ring.

{{anchor|Faith}}'''Faith''', in its proper spiritual sense and meaning is a deep-rooted
belief affecting the whole life, that the visible universe in every
section of it, particularly here and now, rests on and is the
manifestation of an eternal and an unchangeable Unseen Power, whose name
is Good, or God.

{{anchor|Faith, St.}}'''Faith, St.''', a virgin martyr who, in the 4th century, was tortured on
an iron bed and afterwards beheaded.

{{anchor|Fakir}}'''Fakir''' (''lit''. poor), a member of an order of monkish mendicants in
India and adjoining countries who, from presumed religious motives,
practise or affect lives of severe self-mortification, but who in many
cases cultivate filthiness of person to a disgusting degree.

{{anchor|Falaise}}'''Falaise''' (8), a French town in the dep. of Calvados, 22 m. SW. of
Caen; the birthplace of William the Conqueror.

{{anchor|Falconer, Hugh}}'''Falconer, Hugh''', botanist and palæontologist, born at Forres,
Elginshire; studied at Aberdeen and Edinburgh; joined the East India
Company's medical service; made large collections of fossils and plants;
became professor of Botany in Calcutta; introduced the tea-plant into
India, and discovered the asafoetida plant; died in London (1808-1865).

{{anchor|Falconer, Ion Keith}}'''Falconer, Ion Keith''', missionary and Arabic scholar, the third son of
the Earl of Kintore; after passing through Harrow and Cambridge, his
ardent temperament carried him into successful evangelistic work in
London; was appointed Arabic professor at Cambridge, but his promising
career was cut short near Aden while engaged in missionary work;
translated the Fables of Bidpaï; a noted athlete, and champion cyclist of
the world in 1878 (1856-1887).

{{anchor|Falconer, William}}'''[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer, William]]''', poet, born in Edinburgh; a barber's son; spent most of his life at sea; perished in the wreck of the frigate ''Aurora'', of which he was purser; author of the well-known poem &amp;ldquo;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]&amp;rdquo; (1732-1769).

{{anchor|Falconry}}'''Falconry''', the art and practice of employing trained hawks in the
pursuit and capture on the wing of other birds, a sport largely indulged
in by the upper classes in early times in Europe.

{{anchor|Falk, Adalbert}}'''Falk, Adalbert''', Prussian statesman, born at Metschkau, Silesia; as
Minister of Public Worship and Education he was instrumental in passing
laws designed to diminish the influence of the clergy in State affairs;
retired in 1879; ''b''. 1827.

{{anchor|Falkirk}}'''Falkirk''' (20), a town in Stirlingshire, 26 m. NW. of Edinburgh, noted
for its cattle-markets and the iron-works in its neighbourhood; Wallace
was defeated here in 1298 by Edward I.

{{anchor|Falkland}}'''Falkland''' (2), a royal burgh in Fifeshire, 10 m. SW. of Cupar; has
ruins of a famous palace, a royal residence of the Stuart sovereigns,
which was restored by the Marquis of Bute in 1888.

{{anchor|Falkland, Lucius Gary, Viscount}}'''Falkland, Lucius Gary, Viscount''', soldier, scholar, and statesman,
son of Sir Henry Cary, Viscount Falkland; was lord-deputy of Ireland
under James I.; entered the service of the new Dutch Republic, but soon
returned to England and settled at Tew, Oxfordshire, where he indulged
his studious tastes, and entertained his scholarly friends Clarendon,
Chillingworth, and others; after joining Essex's expedition into Scotland
he sat in Parliament, and in 1642 became Secretary of State; suspicious
of Charles's weakness and duplicity, he as much distrusted the
Parliamentary movement, and fell at Newbury fighting for the king
(1610-1643).

{{anchor|Falkland Islands}}'''Falkland Islands''' (2), a group of islands in the S. Atlantic, 240 m.
E. of Tierra del Fuego; discovered in 1592 by Davis; purchased from the
French in 1764 by Spain, but afterwards ceded to Britain, by whom they
were occupied in 1833 and used as a convict settlement until 1852;
besides E. and W. Falkland there are upwards of 100 small islands, mostly
barren; wheat and flax are raised, but sheep-farming is the main
industry.

{{anchor|Fall, The}}'''Fall, The''', the first transgression of divine law on the part of man,
conceived of as involving the whole human race in the guilt of it, and
represented as consisting in the wilful partaking of the fruit of the
forbidden tree of the ''knowledge'' of both good and evil. The story of the
Fall in Genesis has in later times been regarded as a spiritual allegory,
and simply the Hebrew attempt, one amongst many, to explain the origin of
evil. It is worthy of note that a narrative, similar even to detail,
exists in the ancient religious writings of the Hindus and Persians.

{{anchor|Fallopius, Gabriello}}'''Fallopius, Gabriello''', anatomist, born at Modena; professor of
Anatomy at Pisa and at Padua; the Fallopian tubes which connect the
ovaries with the uterus, first accurately described by him, are called
after his name, as also the duct which transmits the facial nerve after
it leaves the auditory nerve (1523-1562).

{{anchor|Falloux, Frédéric Alfred Pierre, Vicomte de}}'''Falloux, Frédéric Alfred Pierre, Vicomte de''', author and statesman,
born at Angers; member of the House of Deputies; favoured the
revolutionaries of 1848, and under the Presidency of Louis Napoleon
became Minister of Public Instruction; retired in 1849, and became a
member of the French Academy (1857); author of a &amp;ldquo;History of Louis XVI.&amp;rdquo;
and a &amp;ldquo;History of Pius V.,&amp;rdquo; both characterised by a strong Legitimist
bias (1811-1886).

{{anchor|Falmouth}}'''Falmouth''' (13), a seaport on the Cornish coast, on the estuary of the
Fal, 18 m. NE. of the Lizard; its harbour, one of the finest in England,
is defended E. and W. by St. Mawes Castle and Pendennis Castle; pilchard
fishing is actively engaged in, and there are exports of tin and copper.

{{anchor|Falstaff, Sir John}}'''Falstaff, Sir John''', a character in Shakespeare's &amp;ldquo;Henry IV.&amp;rdquo; and the
&amp;ldquo;Merry Wives of Windsor&amp;rdquo;; a boon companion of Henry, Prince of Wales; a
cowardly braggart, of sensual habits and great corpulency. See
[[../F#Fastolf, Sir John|Fastolf]].

{{anchor|Familiar Spirits}}'''Familiar Spirits''', certain supernatural beings presumed, agreeably to
a very old belief (Lev. xix. 31), to attend magicians or sorcerers, and
to be at their beck and call on any emergency.

{{anchor|Familists}}'''Familists''', or the Brotherhood of Love, a fanatical sect which arose
in Holland in 1556, and affected to love all men as brothers.

{{anchor|Family Compact}}'''Family Compact''', a compact concluded in 1761 between the Bourbons of
France, Spain, and Italy to resist the naval power of England.

{{anchor|Fan}}'''Fan''', a light hand implement used to cause a draught of cool air to
play upon the face; there are two kinds, the folding and non-folding; the
latter, sometimes large and fixed on a pole, were known to the ancients,
the former were invented by the Japanese in the 7th century, and became
popular in Italy and Spain in the 16th century; but Paris soon took a
lead in their manufacture, carrying them to their highest pitch of
artistic perfection in the reign of Louis XIV.

{{anchor|Fanariots}}'''Fanariots''', the descendants of the Greeks of noble birth who remained
in Constantinople after its capture by Mahomet II. in 1453, so called
from Fanar, the quarter of the city which they inhabited; they rose at
one time to great influence in Turkish affairs, though they have none
now.

{{anchor|Fandango}}'''Fandango''', a popular Spanish dance, specially in favour among the
Andalusians; is in &amp;frac34; time, and is danced to the accompaniment of guitars
and castanets.

{{anchor|Fans}}'''Fans''', an aboriginal tribe dwelling between the Gaboon and Ogoway
Rivers, in western equatorial Africa; are brave and intelligent, and of
good physique, but are addicted to cannibalism.

{{anchor|Fanshawe, Sir Richard}}'''Fanshawe, Sir Richard''', diplomatist and poet, born at Ware Park,
Hertford; studied at the Inner Temple, and after a Continental tour
became attached to the English embassy at Madrid; sided with the
Royalists at the outbreak of the Civil War; was captured at the battle of
Worcester, but escaped and shared the exile of Charles II.; on the
Restoration negotiated Charles's marriage with Catharine, and became
ambassador at the court of Philip IV. of Spain; translated Camoëns's
&amp;ldquo;Lusiad&amp;rdquo; and various classical pieces (1608-1666).

{{anchor|Fantine}}'''Fantine''', one of the most heart-affecting characters in &amp;ldquo;Les
Misérables&amp;rdquo; of Victor Hugo.

{{anchor|Fantis}}'''Fantis''', an African tribe on the Gold Coast, enemies of their
conquerors the Ashantis; fought as allies of the British in the Ashanti
War (1873-74), but, although of strong physique, proved cowardly allies.

{{anchor|Farad}}'''Farad''', the unit of electrical energy, so called from Faraday.

{{anchor|Faraday, Michael}}'''Faraday, Michael''', a highly distinguished chemist and natural
philosopher, born at Newington Butts, near London, of poor parents;
received a meagre education, and at 13 was apprenticed to a bookseller,
but devoted his evenings to chemical and electrical studies, and became a
student under Sir H. Davy, who, quick to detect his ability, installed
him as his assistant; in 1827 he succeeded Davy as lecturer at the Royal
Institution, and became professor of Chemistry in 1833; was pensioned in
1835, and in 1858 was allotted a residence in Hampton Court; in chemistry
he made many notable discoveries, ''e. g''. the liquefaction of chlorine,
while in electricity and magnetism his achievements cover the entire
field of these sciences, and are of the first importance (1791-1867).

{{anchor|Faraizi}}'''Faraizi''', a Mohammedan sect formed in 1827, and met with chiefly in
Eastern Bengal; they discard ''tradition'', and accept the Korân as their
sole guide in religious and spiritual concerns, in this respect differing
from the Sunnites, with whom they have much else in common; although of a
purer morality than the main body of Mohammedans, they are narrow and
intolerant.

{{anchor|Farel, William}}'''Farel, William''', a Swiss reformer, born at Dauphiné; introduced, in
1534, after two futile attempts, the reformed faith into Geneva, where he
was succeeded in the management of affairs by John Calvin; he has been
called the &amp;ldquo;pioneer of the Reformation in Switzerland and France&amp;rdquo;
(1489-1565).

{{anchor|Faria y Sousa, Manuel de}}'''Faria y Sousa, Manuel de''', a Portuguese poet and historian; entered
the diplomatic service, and was for many years secretary to the Spanish
embassy at Rome; was a voluminous writer of history and poetry, and did
much to develop the literature of his country (1590-1649).

{{anchor|Farinata}}'''Farinata''', a Florentine nobleman of the Ghibelline faction, whom for
his infidelity and sensuality Dante has placed till the day of judgment
in a red-hot coffin in hell.

{{anchor|Farinelli, Carlo}}'''Farinelli, Carlo''', a celebrated singer, born in Naples; his singing
created great enthusiasm in London, which he visited in 1734 (1705-1782).

{{anchor|Farini, Luigo Carlo}}'''Farini, Luigo Carlo''', an Italian statesman and author, born at Russi;
practised as a doctor in his native town; in 1841 was forced, on account
of his liberal sympathies, to withdraw from the Papal States, but
returned in 1846 on the proclamation of the Papal amnesty, and afterwards
held various offices of State; was Premier for a few months in 1863;
author of &amp;ldquo;Il Stato Romano,&amp;rdquo; of which there is an English translation by
Mr. Gladstone (1812-1866).

{{anchor|Farmer, Richard}}'''Farmer, Richard''', an eminent scholar, born at Leicester;
distinguished himself at Cambridge, where he became classical tutor of
his college, and in the end master (1775); three years later he was
appointed chief-librarian to the university, and afterwards was
successively canon of Lichfield, Canterbury, and St. Paul's; wrote an
erudite essay on &amp;ldquo;The Learning of Shakespeare&amp;rdquo; (1735-1797).

{{anchor|Farmer George}}'''Farmer George''', George III., a name given to him from his plain,
homely, thrifty manners and tastes.

{{anchor|Farmers-General}}'''Farmers-General''', a name given in France prior to the Revolution to a
privileged syndicate which farmed certain branches of the public revenue,
that is, obtained the right of collecting certain taxes on payment of an
annual sum into the public treasury; the system gave rise to corruption
and illegal extortion, and was at best an unproductive method of raising
the national revenue; it was swept away at the Revolution.

{{anchor|Farne}}'''Farne''' or '''Ferne Isles, The''', also called the Staples, a group of
17 isles 2 m. off the NE. coast of Northumberland, many of which are mere
rocks visible only at low-water; are marked by two lighthouses, and are
associated with a heroic rescue by [[../G#Darling, Grace|Grace Darling]] (''q. v''.) in
1838; on House Isle are the ruins of a Benedictine priory; about 50
people have their homes upon the larger isles.

{{anchor|Farnese}}'''Farnese''', the surname of a noble Italian family dating its rise from
the 13th century.

{{anchor|Farnese, Alessandro}}'''Farnese, Alessandro''', attained the papal chair as Paul III. in 1534;
the excommunication of Henry VIII. of England, the founding of the Order
of the Jesuits (1540), the convocation of the Council of Trent (1542),
mark his term of office (1468-1549).

{{anchor|Farnese, Alessandro}}'''Farnese, Alessandro''', grandson of the following, and 3rd duke of
Parma, a famous general; distinguished himself at the battle of Lepanto;
was governor of the Spanish Netherlands, and fought successfully against
France, defeating Henry IV. before the walls of Paris, and again two
years later at Rouen, where he was mortally wounded (1546-1592).

{{anchor|Farnese, Pietro Luigi}}'''Farnese, Pietro Luigi''', a natural son of Pope Paul III., who figures
in Benvenuto Cellini's Life; received in fief from the Papal See various
estates, including the dukedom of Parma; he ill requited his father's
trust and affection by a life of debauchery and finally suffered
assassination in 1549.

{{anchor|Faroe Islands}}'''Faroe Islands''' (13), a group of 22 islands of basaltic formation,
about 200 m. NW. of the Shetlands; originally Norwegian, they now belong
to Denmark; agriculture is limited, and fishing and sheep-farming chiefly
engage the natives; there is an export trade in wool, fish, and wild-fowl
leathers. The people, who still speak their old Norse dialect, although
Danish is the language of the schools and law courts, are Lutherans, and
enjoy a measure of self-government, and send representatives to the
Danish ''Rigsdag''.

{{anchor|Farquhar, George}}'''Farquhar, George''', comic dramatist, born at Londonderry; early famous
for his wit, of which he has given abundant proof in his dramas, &amp;ldquo;Love
and a Bottle&amp;rdquo; being his first, and &amp;ldquo;The Beaux' Stratagem&amp;rdquo; his last,
written on his deathbed; died young; he commenced life on the stage, but
threw the profession up in consequence of having accidentally wounded a
brother actor while fencing (1678-1707).

{{anchor|Farr, William}}'''Farr, William''', statistician, born at Kenley, Shropshire; studied
medicine, and practised in London; obtained a post in the
Registrar-General's office, and rose to be head of the statistical
department; issued various statistical compilations of great value for
purposes of insurance (1807-1883).

{{anchor|Farragut, David Glasgow}}'''Farragut, David Glasgow''', a famous American admiral, of Spanish
extraction, born at Knoxville, Tennessee; entered the navy as a boy; rose
to be captain in 1855, and at the outbreak of the Civil War attached
himself to the Union; distinguished himself by his daring capture of New
Orleans; in 1862 was created rear-admiral, and two years later gained a
signal victory over the Confederate fleet at Mobile Bay; was raised to
the rank of admiral in 1866, being the first man to hold this position in
the American navy (1801-1870).

{{anchor|Farrar, Frederick William}}'''Farrar, Frederick William''', a celebrated divine and educationalist,
born at Bombay; graduated with distinction at King's College, London, and
at Cambridge; was ordained in 1854, and became head-master of Marlborough
College; was for some years a select preacher to Cambridge University,
and held successively the offices of honorary chaplain and
chaplain-in-ordinary to the Queen; became canon of Westminster, rector of
St. Margaret's, archdeacon, chaplain to the House of Commons, and dean of
Canterbury; his many works include the widely-read school-tales, &amp;ldquo;Eric&amp;rdquo;
and &amp;ldquo;St. Winifred's,&amp;rdquo; philological essays, and his vastly popular Lives
of Christ and St. Paul, besides the &amp;ldquo;Early Days of Christianity,&amp;rdquo;
&amp;ldquo;Eternal Hope,&amp;rdquo; and several volumes of sermons; in recent years have
appeared &amp;ldquo;Darkness and Dawn&amp;rdquo; (1892) and &amp;ldquo;Gathering Clouds&amp;rdquo; (1895); ''b''.
1831.

{{anchor|Fasces}}'''Fasces''', a bundle of rods bound round the helve of an axe, and borne
by the lictors before the Roman magistrates in symbol of their authority
at once to scourge and decapitate.

{{anchor|Fascination}}'''Fascination''', the power, originally ascribed to serpents, of
spell-binding by the eye.

{{anchor|Fasti}}'''Fasti''', the name given to days among the Romans on which it was
lawful to transact business before the prætor; also the name of books
among the Romans containing calendars of times, seasons, and events.

{{anchor|Fastolf, Sir John}}'''Fastolf, Sir John''', a distinguished soldier of Henry V.'s reign, who
with Sir John Oldcastle shares the doubtful honour of being the prototype
of Shakespeare's Falstaff, but unlike the dramatist's creation was a
courageous soldier, and won distinction at Agincourt and at the &amp;ldquo;Battle
of the Herrings&amp;rdquo;; after engaging with less success in the struggle
against Joan of Arc, he returned to England and spent his closing years
in honoured retirement at Norfolk, his birthplace; he figures in the
&amp;ldquo;Paston Letters&amp;rdquo; (1378-1459).

{{anchor|Fata Morgana}}'''Fata Morgana''', a mirage occasionally observed in the Strait of
Messina, in which, from refraction in the atmosphere, images of objects,
such as men, houses, trees, etc., are seen from the coast under or over
the surface of the water.

{{anchor|Fatalism}}'''Fatalism''', the doctrine that all which takes place in life and
history is subject to fate, that is is to say, takes place by inevitable
necessity, that things being as they are, events cannot fall out
otherwise than they do.

{{anchor|Fates, The}}'''Fates, The''', in the Greek mythology the three goddesses who presided
over the destinies of individuals&amp;mdash;[[../C#Clotho|Clotho]], [[../L#Lachesis|Lachesis]], and
[[../A#Atropos|Atropos]] (''q. v''.). See [[../P#Parcæ|Parcæ]].

{{anchor|Father of Comedy}}'''Father of Comedy''', [[../A#Aristophanes|Aristophanes]] (''q. v''.).

{{anchor|Father of Ecclesiastical History}}'''Father of Ecclesiastical History''', [[../E#Eusebius Pamphili|Eusebius]] (''q. v''.).

{{anchor|Father of French History}}'''Father of French History''', [[../D#Duchesne, André|Duchesne]] (''q. v''.).

{{anchor|Father of German Literature}}'''Father of German Literature''', [[../L#Lessing, Gotthold Ephraim|Lessing]] (''q. v''.).

{{anchor|Father of History}}'''Father of History''', [[../H#Herodotus|Herodotus]] (''q. v''.).

{{anchor|Father of Tragedy}}'''Father of Tragedy''', [[../A#Æschylus|Eschylus]] (''q. v''.).

{{anchor|Father Paul}}'''Father Paul''', [[../P#Sarpi, Paul|Paul Sarpi]] (''q. v''.).

{{anchor|Fathers of the Church}}'''Fathers of the Church''', the early teachers of Christianity and
founders of the Christian Church, consisting of live &lt;i&gt;Apostolic
Fathers&lt;/i&gt;&amp;mdash;Clement of Home, Barnabas, Hermes, Ignatius, and Polycarp, and
of nine in addition called ''Primitive Fathers''&amp;mdash;Justin, Theophilus of
Antioch, Irenæus, Clemens of Alexandria, Cyprian of Carthage, Origen,
Gregory Thaumaturgus, Dionysius of Alexandria, and Tertullian. The
distinctive title of ''Apostolic Fathers'' was bestowed upon the immediate
friends and disciples of the Apostles, while the ''patristic'' period
proper may be said to commence with the 2nd century, but no definite date
can be assigned as marking its termination, some closing it with the
deaths of Gregory the Great (601) and John of Damascus (756), while
Catholic writers bring it down as far as the Council of Trent (1542);
discarded among Protestants, the Fathers are regarded by Catholics as
decisive in authority on points of faith, but only when they exhibit a
unanimity of opinion.

{{anchor|Fathom}}'''Fathom''', a measure of 6 ft. used in taking marine soundings,
originally an Anglo-Saxon term for the distance stretched by a man's
extended arms; is sometimes used in mining operations.

{{anchor|Fathom, Count Ferdinand}}'''Fathom, Count Ferdinand''', a villain in the novel of Smollett so
named.

{{anchor|Fatima}}'''Fatima''', the last of Bluebeard's wives, and the only one who escaped
being murdered by him; also Mahomet's favourite daughter.

{{anchor|Fatimides}}'''Fatimides''', a Mohammedan dynasty which assumed the title of caliphs
and ruled N. Africa and Egypt, and later Syria and Palestine, between the
10th and 12th centuries inclusive; they derived their name from the claim
(now discredited) of their founder, Obeidallah Almahdi, to be descended
from Fatima, daughter of Mahomet and wife of Ali; they were finally
expelled by Saladin in 1169.

{{anchor|Faucher, Léon}}'''Faucher, Léon''', a political economist, brought into notice by the
Revolution of 1830; edited ''Le Temps''; opposed Louis Philippe's minister,
M. Guizot; held office under the Presidency of Louis Napoleon, but threw
up office on the ''coup d'état'' of 1851 (1803-1854).

{{anchor|Fauchet, Abbé}}'''Fauchet, Abbé''', a French Revolutionary, a Girondin; blessed the
National tricolor flag; &amp;ldquo;a man of ''Te Deums'' and public consecrations&amp;rdquo;;
was a member of the first parliament; stripped of his insignia, lamented
the death of the king, perished on the scaffold (1744-1793).

{{anchor|Faucit, Helen}}'''Faucit, Helen''', a famous English actress; made her ''début'' in London
(1836), and soon won a foremost place amongst English actresses by her
powerful and refined representations of Shakespeare's heroines under the
management of Macready; she retired from the stage in 1851 after her
marriage with [[../T#Martin, Sir Theodore|Theodore Martin]] (''q. v''.); in 1885 she published a
volume of studies &amp;ldquo;On Some of Shakespeare's Female Characters&amp;rdquo;
(1820-1899).

{{anchor|Fauns}}'''Fauns''', divinities of the woods and fields among the Romans, and
guardians of flocks against the wolf.

{{anchor|Fauntleroy, Henry}}'''Fauntleroy, Henry''', banker and forger; in his twenty-third year
became a partner in the bank of Marsh, Sibbald, &amp;amp; Co., London; was put on
trial for a series of elaborate forgeries, found guilty, and hanged; the
trial created a great sensation at the time, and efforts were made to
obtain a commutation of the sentence (1785-1824).

{{anchor|Faunus}}'''Faunus''', a god, grandson of Saturn, who figures in the early history
of Latium, first as the god of fields and shepherds, and secondly, as an
oracular divinity and founder of the native religion, afterwards
identified with the Greek Pan.

{{anchor|Faure, Fran&amp;ccedil;ois Felix}}'''Faure, Fran&amp;ccedil;ois Felix''', President of the French Republic, born in
Paris; carried on business in Touraine as a tanner, but afterwards
settled in Havre and became a wealthy shipowner; he served with
distinction as a volunteer in the Franco-German War; entered the Assembly
in 1881, where he held office as Colonial and Commercial Minister in
various Cabinets; was elected President in 1895 (1841-1899).

{{anchor|Faust, Johannes}}'''Faust, Johannes'''. See [[../F#Fust Johann|Fust]].

{{anchor|Faust}}'''Faust''', or '''Doctor Faustus''', a reputed professor of the black art,
a native of Germany, who flourished in the end of the 15th century and
the beginning of the 16th century, and who is alleged to have made a
compact with the devil to give up to him body and soul in the end,
provided he endowed him for a term of years with power to miraculously
fulfil all his wishes. Under this compact the devil provided him with a
familiar spirit, called Mephistopheles, attended by whom he traversed the
world, enjoying life and working wonders, till the term of the compact
having expired, the devil appeared and carried him off amid display of
horrors to the abode of penal fire. This myth, which has been subjected
to manifold literary treatment, has received its most significant
rendering at the hands of Goethe, such as to supersede and eclipse every
other attempt to unfold its meaning. It is presented by him in the form
of a drama, in two parts of five acts each, of which the first, published
in 1790, represents &amp;ldquo;the conflicting union of the higher nature of the
soul with the lower elements of human life; of Faust, the son of Light
and Free-Will, with the influences of Doubt, Denial, and Obstruction, or
[[../M#Mephistopheles|Mephistopheles]] (''q. v''.), who is the symbol and spokesman of
these; and the second, published in 1832, represents Faust as now
elevated, by the discipline he has had, above the hampered sphere of the
first, and conducted into higher regions under worthier circumstances.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Fausta}}'''Fausta''', the wife of Constantino the Great.

{{anchor|Faustina, Annia Galeri}}'''Faustina, Annia Galeri''', called Faustina, Senior, wife of Antoninus
Pius, died three years after her husband became emperor (105-141).

{{anchor|Faustina, Annia, Junior}}'''Faustina, Annia, Junior''', wife of the Emperor Marcus Aurelius,
daughter of the preceding. Both she and her mother are represented by
historians as profligate and unfaithful, and quite unworthy the affection
lavishly bestowed upon them by their husbands.

{{anchor|Faustulus}}'''Faustulus''', the shepherd who, with his wife Laurentia, was the
foster-parent of Romulus and Remus, who, as infants, had been exposed on
the Palatine Hill.

{{anchor|Favart, Charles Simon}}'''Favart, Charles Simon''', French dramatist, born at Paris, where he
became director of the Opéra Comique; was celebrated as a vivacious
playwright and composer of operas; during a temporary absence from Paris
he established his Comedy Company in the camp of Marshal Saxe during the
Flanders campaign; his memoirs and correspondence give a bright picture
of theatrical life in Paris during the 18th century (1710-1792).

{{anchor|Favonius}}'''Favonius''', the god of the favouring west wind.

{{anchor|Favre, Jules Claude Gabriel}}'''Favre, Jules Claude Gabriel''', a French Republican statesman, born at
Lyons; called to the Paris bar in 1830; a strong Republican, he joined
the Revolutions of 1830 and 1848; held office as Minister of the Interior
in the New Republic, and disapproving of the ''coup d'état'', resumed
practice at the bar; defended the Italian conspirator [[../O#Orsini, Felice|Orsini]] (&lt;i&gt;q.
v&lt;/i&gt;.), and in 1870, on the dissolution of the Empire, became Minister of
Foreign Affairs; mistakes in his negotiations with Bismarck led to his
resignation and resumption of his legal practice (1809-1880).

{{anchor|Fawcett, Henry}}'''Fawcett, Henry''', statesman and political economist, born at
Salisbury; though blind, it was his early ambition to enter the arena of
politics, and he devoted himself to the study of political economy, of
which he became professor at Cambridge; entering Parliament, he became
Postmaster-General under Mr. Gladstone in 1880; he wrote and published
works on his favourite study (1832-1884).

{{anchor|Fawkes, Guy}}'''Fawkes, Guy''', a notorious English conspirator, born of a respected
Yorkshire family; having spent a slender patrimony, he joined the Spanish
army in Flanders; was converted to the Catholic faith; and on his return
to England allied himself with the conspirators of the [[../G#Gunpowder Plot|Gunpowder Plot]]
(''q. v''.), and was arrested in the cellars of the House of
Commons when on the point of firing the explosive; was tried and executed
(1570-1606).

{{anchor|Fay, Andreas}}'''Fay, Andreas''', Hungarian dramatist and novelist, born at Kohany;
studied law, but the success of a volume of fables confirmed him in his
choice of literature in preference; wrote various novels and plays; was
instrumental in founding the Hungarian National Theatre; was a member of
the Hungarian Diet (1786-1804).

{{anchor|Fayal}}'''Fayal''' (26), a fruit-bearing island among the [[../A#Azores|Azores]] (&lt;i&gt;q.
v&lt;/i&gt;.), exports wine and fruits; Horta, with an excellent bay, is its chief
town.

{{anchor|Fayyum}}'''Fayyum''' (160), a fertile province of Central Egypt, lies W. of the
Nile, 65 miles from Cairo, is in reality a southern oasis in the Libyan
desert, irrigated by means of a canal running through a narrow gorge to
the Nile valley; its area is about 840 sq. m., a portion of which is
occupied by a sheet of water, the Birket-el-Kern (35 m. long), known to
the ancients as Lake Moeris, and by the shores of which stood one of the
wonders of the world, the famous &amp;ldquo;Labyrinth.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Feasts, Jewish, of Dedication}}'''Feasts, Jewish, of Dedication''', a feast in commemoration of the
purification of the Temple and the rebuilding of the altar by Judas
Maccabæus in 164 B.C., after profanation of them by the Syrians: &lt;b&gt;of the
Passover&lt;/b&gt;, a festival in April on the anniversary of the exodus from
Egypt, and which lasted eight days, the first and the last days of solemn
religious assembly: '''of Pentecost''', a feast celebrated on the fiftieth
day after the second of the Passover, in commemoration of the giving of
the law on Mount Sinai; both this feast and the Passover were celebrated
in connection with harvest, what was presented in one in the form of a
sheaf being in the other presented as a loaf of bread: '''of Purim''', a
feast in commemoration of the preservation of the Jews from the wholesale
threatened massacre of the race in Persia at the instigation of Haman:
'''of Tabernacles''', a festival of eight days in memory of the wandering
tentlife of the people in the wilderness, observed by the people dwelling
in bowers made of branches erected on the streets or the roofs of the
house; it was the Feast of Ingathering as well.

{{anchor|February}}'''February''', the second month of the year, was added along with January
by Numa to the end of the original Roman year of 10 months; derived its
name from a festival offered annually on the 15th day to Februus, an
ancient Italian god of the nether world; was assigned its present
position in the calendar by Julius Cæsar, who also introduced the
intercalary day for leap-year.

{{anchor|Fécamp}}'''Fécamp''' (13), a seaport in the dep. of Seine-Inférieure, 25 m. NE. of
Havre; has a fine Gothic Benedictine church, a harbour and lighthouse,
hardware and textile factories; fishing and sugar refineries also
flourish; exports the celebrated Benedictine liqueurs.

{{anchor|Fechner, Gustav Theodor}}'''Fechner, Gustav Theodor''', physicist and psychophysicist, born at
Gross-Särchen, in Lower Lusatia; became professor of Physics in Leipzig,
but afterwards devoted himself to psychology; laid the foundations of the
science of psychophysics in his &amp;ldquo;Elements of Pyschophysics&amp;rdquo;; wrote
besides on the theory of colour and galvanism, as well as poems and
essays (1801-1887).

{{anchor|Fechter, Charles Albert}}'''Fechter, Charles Albert''', a famous actor, born in London, his father
of German extraction and his mother English; made his ''début'' in Paris at
the age of 17; after a tour through the European capitals established
himself in London as the lessee of the Lyceum Theatre in 1863; became
celebrated for his original impersonations of Hamlet and Othello; removed
to America in 1870, where he died (1824-1879).

{{anchor|Feciales}}'''Feciales''', a college of functionaries in ancient Rome whose duty it
was to make proclamation of peace and war, and confirm treaties.

{{anchor|Federal Government}}'''Federal Government''', in modern parlance is the political system which
a number of independent and sovereign States adopt when they join
together for purposes of domestic and especially International policy;
local government is freely left with the individual States, and only in
the matter of chiefly foreign relations is the central government
paramount, but the degree of freedom which each State enjoys is a matter
of arrangement when the contract is formed, and the powers vested in the
central authority may only be permitted to work through the local
government, as in the German Confederation, or may bear directly upon the
citizens throughput the federation, as in the U.S. of America, and since
1847 in Switzerland.

{{anchor|Federalist}}'''Federalist''', a name in the United States for a supporter of the Union
and its integrity as such; a party which was formed in 1788, but
dissolved in 1820; has been since applied to a supporter of the integrity
of the Union against the South in the late Civil War.

{{anchor|Federation, The Champs-de-Mars}}'''Federation, The Champs-de-Mars''', a grand féte celebrated in the
Champs-de-Mars, Paris, on July 14, 1790, the anniversary of the taking of
the Bastille, at which deputies from the newly instituted departments
assisted to the number of 80,000, as well as deputies from other nations,
&amp;ldquo;Swedes, Spaniards, Polacks, Turks, Chaldeans, Greeks, and dwellers in
Mesopotamia,&amp;rdquo; representatives of the human race, &amp;ldquo;with three hundred
drummers, twelve hundred wind-musicians, and artillery planted on height
after height to boom the tidings all over France, the highest recorded
triumph of the Thespian art.&amp;rdquo; Louis XVI. too assisted at the ceremony,
and took solemn oath to the constitution just established in the interest
of mankind. See [[../C#Carlyle, Thomas|Carlyle's]] &amp;ldquo;French Revolution.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Fehmgericht}}'''Fehmgericht'''. See [[../V#Vehmgerichte|Vehmgerichte]].

{{anchor|Feith}}'''Feith''', a Dutch poet, born at Zwolle, where, after studying at
Leyden, he settled and died; his writings include didactic poems, songs,
and dramas; had a refining influence on the literary taste of his
countrymen (1753-1824).

{{anchor|Félicité, St.}}'''Félicité, St.''', a Roman matron, who with her seven sons suffered
martyrdom in 164. Festival, July 10.

{{anchor|Felix}}'''Felix''', the name of five Popes: '''F. I., St.''', Pope from 269 to
274, said to have been a victim of the persecution of Aurelius; &lt;b&gt;F.
II.&lt;/b&gt;, Pope from 356 to 357, the first anti-pope having been elected in
place of the deposed Liberius who had declined to join in the persecution
of [[../A#Athanasius|Athanasius]] (''q. v''.), was banished on the restoration of
Liberius; '''F. III.''', Pope from 483 to 492, during his term of office
the first schism between the Eastern and Western Churches took place; &lt;b&gt;F.
IV.&lt;/b&gt;, Pope from 526 to 530, was appointed by Theodoric in face of the
determined opposition of both people and clergy; '''F. V.''', Pope from
1439 to 1449. See [[../A#Amadeus VIII.|Amadeus VIII.]].

{{anchor|Felix, Claudius}}'''Felix, Claudius''', a Roman procurator of Judæa in the time of Claudius
and Nero; is referred to in Acts xxiii. and xxiv. as having examined the
Apostle Paul and listened to his doctrines; was vicious in his habits,
and formed an adulterous union with Drusilla, said by Tacitus to have
been the granddaughter of Antony and Cleopatra; was recalled in A.D. 62.

{{anchor|Felix Holt}}'''Felix Holt''', a novel of George Eliot's, written in 1866.

{{anchor|Fell, John}}'''Fell, John''', a celebrated English divine; Royalist in sympathy, he
continued throughout the Puritan ascendency loyal to the English Church,
and on the Restoration became Dean of Christ Church and a royal chaplain;
was a good man and a charitable, and a patron of learning; in 1676 was
raised to the bishopric of Oxford; was the object of the well-known
epigram, &amp;ldquo;I do not like thee, Dr. Fell, The reason why I cannot tell&amp;rdquo;
(1625-1686).

{{anchor|Fellah}}'''Fellah''', the name applied contemptuously by the Turks to the
agricultural labourer of Egypt; the Fellahin (''pl''. of Fellah) comprise
about three-fourths of the population; they are of good physique, and
capable of much toil, but are, despite their intelligence and sobriety,
lazy and immoral; girls marry at the age of 12, and the children grow up
amidst the squalor of their mud-built villages; their food is of the
poorest, and scarcely ever includes meat; tobacco is their only luxury;
their condition has improved under British rule.

{{anchor|Fellows, Sir Charles}}'''Fellows, Sir Charles''', archæologist, born at Nottingham; early
developed a passion for travel; explored the Xanthus Valley in Asia
Minor, and discovered the ruins of the cities Teos and Xanthus, the
ancient capital of Lycia (1838); returned to the exploration of Lycia in
1839 and again in 1841, discovering the ruins of 13 other ancient cities;
accounts of these explorations and discoveries are fully given in his
various published journals and essays; was knighted in 1845 (1799-1861).

{{anchor|Fellowship}}'''Fellowship''', a collegiate term for a status in many universities
which entitles the holder (a Fellow) to a share in their revenues, and in
some cases to certain privileges as regards apartments and meals in the
college, as also to a certain share in the government; formerly
Fellowships were usually life appointments, but are now generally for a
prescribed number of years, or are held during a term of special
research; the old restrictions of celibacy and religious conformity have
been relaxed.

{{anchor|Felo-de-se}}'''Felo-de-se''', in English law the crime which a man at the age of
discretion and of a sound mind commits when he takes away his life.

{{anchor|Felony}}'''Felony''', &amp;ldquo;a crime which involves a total forfeiture of lands or goods
or both, to which capital or other punishment may be superadded,
according to the degree of guilt.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Felton, Cornelius Conway}}'''Felton, Cornelius Conway''', American scholar, born at West Newbury,
Massachusetts; graduated at Harvard in 1827, and became professor of
Greek there, rising to the Presidency of the same college in 1860; edited
Greek classics, and made translations from the German; most important
work is &amp;ldquo;Greece, Ancient and Modern,&amp;rdquo; in 2 vols. (1807-1862).

{{anchor|Felton, John}}'''Felton, John''', the Irish assassin of the Duke of Buckingham in 1628.

{{anchor|Femmes Savantes}}'''Femmes Savantes''', a comedy in five acts by Molière, and one of his
best, appeared in 1672.

{{anchor|Fenella}}'''Fenella''', a fairy-like attendant of the Countess of Derby, deaf and
dumb, in Scott's &amp;ldquo;Peveril of the Peak,&amp;rdquo; a character suggested by Goethe's
Mignon in &amp;ldquo;Wilhelm Meister.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Fénélon, Fran&amp;ccedil;ois de Salignac de la Mothe}}'''Fénélon, Fran&amp;ccedil;ois de Salignac de la Mothe''', a famous French prelate
and writer, born in the Château de Fénélon, in the prov. of Périgord; at
the age of 15 came to Paris, and, having already displayed a remarkable
gift for preaching, entered the Plessis College, and four years later
joined the Seminary of St. Sulpice, where he took holy orders in 1675;
his directorship of a seminary for female converts to Catholicism brought
him into prominence, and gave occasion to his well-known treatise &amp;ldquo;De
l'Éducation des Filles&amp;rdquo;; in 1685, after the revocation of the Edict of
Nantes, he conducted a mission for the conversion of the Huguenots of
Saintonge and Poitou, and four years later Louis XIV. appointed him tutor
to his grandson, the Duke of Burgundy, an appointment which led to his
writing his &amp;ldquo;Fables,&amp;rdquo; &amp;ldquo;Dialogues of the Dead,&amp;rdquo; and &amp;ldquo;History of the
Ancient Philosophers&amp;rdquo;; in 1694 he became abbé of St. Valery, and in the
following year archbishop of Cambrai; soon after this ensued his
celebrated controversy with [[../B#Bossuet, Jacques Bénigne|Bossuet]] (''q. v''.) regarding the
doctrines of [[../Q#Quietism|Quietism]] (''q. v''.), a dispute which brought him into
disfavour with the king and provoked the Pope's condemnation of his
&amp;ldquo;Explication des Maximes des Saints sur la Vie intérieure&amp;rdquo;; the
surreptitious publication of his most famous work &amp;ldquo;Télémache,&amp;rdquo; the MS. of
which was stolen by his servant, accentuated the king's disfavour, who
regarded it as a veiled attack on his court, and led to an order
confining the author to his own diocese; the rest of his life was spent
in the service of his people, to whom he endeared himself by his
benevolence and the sweet piety of his nature; his works are extensive,
and deal with subjects historical and literary, as well as philosophical
and theological (1651-1715).

{{anchor|Fenians}}'''Fenians''', an Irish political organisation having for its object the
overthrow of English rule in Ireland and the establishment of a republic
there. The movement was initiated in the United States soon after the
great famine in Ireland of 1846-47, which, together with the harsh
exactions of the landlords, compelled many Irishmen to emigrate from
their island with a deeply-rooted sense of injustice and hatred of the
English. The Fenians organised themselves so far on the model of a
republic, having a senate at the head, with a virtual president called
the &amp;ldquo;head-centre,&amp;rdquo; and various &amp;ldquo;circles&amp;rdquo; established in many parts of the
U.S. They collected funds and engaged in military drill, and sent agents
to Ireland and England. An invasion of Canada in 1866 and a rising at
home in 1867 proved abortive, as also the attack on Clerkenwell Prison in
the same year. Another attempt on Canada in 1871 and the formation of the
''Skirmishing Fund'' for the use of the ''Dynamitards'' and the institution
of the ''Clan-na-Gael'' leading to the &amp;ldquo;Invincibles,&amp;rdquo; and the Phoenix Park
murders (1882) are later manifestations of this movement. The Home Rule
and Land League movements practically superseded the Fenian. The name is
taken from an ancient military organisation called the Fionna Eirinn,
said to have been instituted in Ireland in 300 B.C.

{{anchor|Ferdinand the Catholic}}'''Ferdinand the Catholic''', V. of Castile, II. of Aragon and Sicily, and
III. of Naples, born at Sos, in Aragon, married Isabella of Castile in
1849, a step by which these ancient kingdoms were united under one
sovereign power; their joint reign is one of the most glorious in the
annals of Spanish history, and in their hands Spain quickly took rank
amongst the chief European powers; in 1492 Columbus discovered America,
and the same year saw the Jews expelled from Spain and the Moorish power
crushed by the fall of Granada. In 1500-1 Ferdinand joined the French in
his conquest of Naples, and three years later managed to secure the
kingdom to himself, while by the conquest of Navarre in 1512 the entire
Spanish peninsula came under his sway. He was a shrewd and adroit ruler,
whose undoubted abilities, both as administrator and general, were,
however, somewhat marred by an unscrupulous cunning, which found a
characteristic expression in the institution of the notorious
Inquisition, which in 1480 was started by him, and became a powerful
engine for political as well as religious persecution for long years
after (1452-1516).

{{anchor|Ferdinand I.}}'''Ferdinand I.''', emperor of Germany (1556-64), born at Alcalá, in
Spain, son of Philip I., married Anna, a Bohemian princess, in 1521; was
elected king of the Romans (1531), added Bohemia and Hungary to his
domains (1503-1564).

{{anchor|Ferdinand II.}}'''Ferdinand II.''', emperor of Germany (1619-37), grandson of the
preceding and son of Charles, younger brother of Maximilian II., born at
Grätz; his detestation of the Protestants, early instilled into him by
his mother and the Jesuits, under whom he was educated, was the ruling
passion of his life, and involved the empire in constant warfare during
his reign; an attempt on the part of Bohemia, restless under religious
and political grievances, to break away from his rule, brought about the
Thirty Years' War; by ruthless persecutions he re-established Catholicism
in Bohemia, and reduced the country to subjection; but the war spread
into Hungary and Germany, where Ferdinand was opposed by a confederacy of
the Protestant States of Lower Saxony and Denmark, and in which the
Protestant cause was in the end successfully sustained by the Swedish
hero, [[../G#Gustavus (II.) Adolphus|Gustavus Adolphus]] (''q. v''.), who had opposed to him the
imperial generals [[../T#Tilly, Johann Tserklaes, Count of|Tilly]] and [[../W#Wallenstein|Wallenstein]] (''q. v''.); his
reign is regarded as one of disaster, bloodshed, and desolation to his
empire, and his connivance at the assassination of Wallenstein will be
forever remembered to his discredit (1578-1637).

{{anchor|Ferdinand III.}}'''Ferdinand III.''', emperor of Germany (1637-57), son of the preceding,
born at Grätz; more tolerant in his views, would gladly have brought the
war to a close, but found himself compelled to face the Swedes reinforced
by the French; in 1648 the desolating struggle was terminated by the
Peace of Westphalia; the rest of his reign passed in tranquillity
(1608-1657).

{{anchor|Ferdinand I.}}'''Ferdinand I.''', king of the Two Sicilies, third son of Charles III. of
Spain, succeeded his father on the Neapolitan throne (1759), married
Maria Caroline, daughter of Maria-Theresa; joined the Allies in the
struggle against Napoleon, and in 1806 was driven from his throne by the
French, but was reinstated at the Congress of Vienna; in 1816 he
constituted his two States (Sicily and Naples) into the kingdom of the
Two Sicilies, and in the last four years of his reign ruled, with the aid
of Austria, as a despot, and having broken a pledge to his people, was
compelled ere his return to grant a popular constitution (1751-1825).

{{anchor|Ferdinand II.}}'''Ferdinand II.''', king of the Two Sicilies, grandson of the preceding
and son of Francis I.; after the death of his first wife, a daughter of
Victor Emmanuel I., he married the Austrian princess Maria-Theresa, and
fell under the influence of Austria during the rest of his reign; in 1848
he was compelled to grant constitutional rights to his people, but was
distrusted, and an insurrection broke out in Sicily; with merciless
severity he crushed the revolt, and by his savage bombardment of the
cities won him the epithet &amp;ldquo;Bomba&amp;rdquo;; a reign of terror ensued, and in 1851
Europe was startled by the revelations of cruel injustice contained in
Mr. Gladstone's famous Neapolitan letters (1810-1859).

{{anchor|Ferdinand III.}}'''Ferdinand III.''', Grand-duke of Tuscany and Archduke of Austria, born
at Florence; succeeded to the government of Tuscany in 1790; introduced
many wise measures of reform, which brought peace and prosperity to his
State; reluctantly joined the coalition against Napoleon in 1793, but two
years later entered into friendly relations with France, and in 1797, in
order to save his States being merged in the Cisalpine Republic,
undertook to make payment of an annual subsidy; later he formed an
alliance with Austria, and was by Napoleon driven from his possessions,
which were, however, restored to him in 1814 by the Peace of Paris
(1769-1824).

{{anchor|Ferdinand VII. of Spain}}'''Ferdinand VII. of Spain''', son of Charles IV. of Spain; too weak to
steer his way through the intrigues of the court, he appealed to Napoleon
in 1807 to support the king, his father, and himself; but his letter was
discovered, and his accomplices exiled; the following year the French
entered Spain, and Charles abdicated in favour of his son Ferdinand; but
soon after, under Napoleon's influence, the crown was surrendered to the
French, and Joseph Bonaparte became king; in 1813 Ferdinand was
reinstated, but found himself immediately met by a demand of his people
for a more liberal representative government; the remaining years of his
reign were spent in an internecine struggle against these claims, in
which he had French support under Louis XVIII. (1784-1833).

{{anchor|Ferdusi}}'''Ferdusi'''. See [[../F#Firdausi|Firdausi]].

{{anchor|Feretrum}}'''Feretrum''', the shrine containing the sacred effigies and relics of a
saint.

{{anchor|Fergus}}'''Fergus''', the name of three Scottish kings: '''F. I.''', ''d''. 356; &lt;b&gt;F.
II.&lt;/b&gt;, king from 411 to 427; and '''F. III.''', king from 764 to 767.

{{anchor|Ferguson, Adam}}'''Ferguson, Adam''', a Scotch philosopher and historian, born at
Logierait, Perthshire; after passing through the universities of St.
Andrews and Edinburgh, he in 1745 was appointed Gaelic chaplain to the
Black Watch Highland Regiment, and was present at the battle of Fontenoy;
in 1757 he became keeper of the Advocates' Library in Edinburgh; two
years later professor of Natural Philosophy, and subsequently of Moral
Philosophy in the university there; during his professorship he, as
secretary, was attached to the commission sent out by Lord North to bring
about a friendly settlement of the dispute pending between England and
the North American colonies; resigning his chair in 1785 he retired to
Neidpath Castle, to engage in farming at Hallyards, an estate in the same
neighbourhood; died at St. Andrews; his best-known works are &amp;ldquo;Institutes
of Moral Philosophy,&amp;rdquo; &amp;ldquo;History of the Roman Republic,&amp;rdquo; and &amp;ldquo;Principles
of Moral and Political Science&amp;rdquo; (1723-1816).

{{anchor|Ferguson, James}}'''Ferguson, James''', a popular writer on astronomy and mechanics, born
at Rothiemay, Banff, son of a labourer; his interest in astronomy was
first aroused by his observation of the stars while acting as a &amp;ldquo;herd
laddie,&amp;rdquo; and much of his time among the hills was spent in the
construction of mechanical contrivances; compelled by circumstances to
betake himself to various occupations, pattern-drawing, clock-mending,
copying prints, and portrait sketching, he still in his leisure hours
pursued those early studies, and coming to London in 1743 (after a
residence of some years in Edinburgh), began lecturing on his favourite
subjects; a pension of &amp;pound;50 was granted him out of the privy purse, and in
1763 he was elected an F.R.S.; besides publishing lectures on mechanics,
hydrostatics, optics, &amp;amp;c., he wrote several works on astronomy, chiefly
popular expositions of the methods and principles of Sir Isaac Newton
(1710-1776).

{{anchor|Ferguson, Patrick}}'''Ferguson, Patrick''', soldier and inventor of the breech-loading gun,
born at Pitfour, Aberdeenshire; served in the English army in Germany and
Tobago; brought out his new rifle in 1766, which was tried with success
in the American War of Independence; rose to be a major, and fell at the
battle of King's Mountains, in South Carolina (1744-1780).

{{anchor|Ferguson, Robert}}'''Ferguson, Robert''', a notorious plotter, who took part in Monmouth's
invasion in 1685 and was prominent in the various plots against Charles
II. and James II., but after the Revolution turned Jacobite; published a
history of the Revolution in 1706; died in poverty (about 1637-1714).

{{anchor|Fergusson, James}}'''Fergusson, James''', a writer on the history and art of architecture,
born at Ayr; went to India as an indigo-planter, but afterwards gave
himself up to the study of the rock-temples; published various works, and
in his later years interested himself in the fortifications of the United
Kingdom; his &amp;ldquo;History of Architecture,&amp;rdquo; in 4 vols., is a standard work
(1808-1886).

{{anchor|Fergusson, Robert}}'''Fergusson, Robert''', a Scottish poet, born in Edinburgh; after a
university course at St. Andrews he obtained a post in the office of the
commissionary-clerk of Edinburgh; his first poems appeared in &lt;i&gt;Ruddiman's
Weekly Magazine&lt;/i&gt;, and brought him a popularity which proved his ruin;
some years of unrestrained dissipation ended in religious melancholia,
which finally settled down into an incurable insanity; his poems,
collected in 1773, have abundant energy, wit, and fluency, but lack the
passion and tenderness of those of Burns; he was, however, held in high
honour by Burns, who regarded him as &amp;ldquo;his elder brother in the Muses.&amp;rdquo;
&amp;ldquo;In his death,&amp;rdquo; says Mr. Henley, &amp;ldquo;at four-and-twenty, a great loss was
inflicted to Scottish literature; he had intelligence and an eye, a right
touch of humour, the gifts of invention and observation and style,
together with a true feeling for country and city alike ... Burns, who
learned much from him, was an enthusiast in his regard for him, bared his
head and shed tears over 'the green mound and the scattered gowans,'
under which he found his exemplar lying in Canongate Churchyard, and got
leave from the managers to put up a headstone at his own cost there&amp;rdquo;
(1750-1774). See Mr. Henley's &amp;ldquo;Life of Burns&amp;rdquo; in the Centenary Burns,
published by the Messrs. T. C. and E. C. Jack.

{{anchor|Fergusson, Sir W.}}'''Fergusson, Sir W.''', surgeon, born at Prestonpans; graduated at
Edinburgh; was elected to the chair of Surgery in King's College, London,
and in 1866 was made a baronet; was serjeant-surgeon to the Queen, and
president of the Royal College of Surgeons; Fergusson was a bold and
skilful surgeon; is the author, amongst other treatises, of a &amp;ldquo;System of
Practical Surgery,&amp;rdquo; besides being the inventor of many surgical
instruments (1808-1877).

{{anchor|Ferishtah}}'''Ferishtah''', a Persian historian, born at Astrabad, on the Black Sea;
went at an early age, accompanied by his father, to India, where his life
was spent in the service, first of Murtaza Nizam Shah, in Ahmednagar, and
afterwards at the court of the prince of Bijapur; his famous history of
the Mohammedan power in India, finished in 1609, and the writing of which
occupied him for 20 years, is still a standard work, and has been
translated into English (about 1570-1611).

{{anchor|Fermanagh}}'''Fermanagh''' (74), an Irish county in the SW. corner of Ulster, of a
hilly surface, especially in the W.; is well wooded, and produces
indifferent crops of oats, flax, and potatoes; some coal and iron, and
quantities of limestone, are found in it; the Upper and Lower Loughs Erne
form a waterway through its centre; chief town, Enniskillen.

{{anchor|Fermat, Pierre de}}'''Fermat, Pierre de''', a French mathematician, born near Montauban; made
important discoveries in the properties of numbers, and with his friend
Pascal invented a calculus of probabilities; was held in high esteem by
Hallam, who ranks him next to Descartes (1601-1665).

{{anchor|Fernandez, Juan}}'''Fernandez, Juan''', a Spanish navigator, discovered the island off the
coast of Chile that bears his name; ''d''. in 1576.

{{anchor|Fernando Po}}'''Fernando Po''' (25), a mountainous island, with an abrupt and rocky
coast, in the Bight of Biafra, W. Africa; the volcano, Mount Clarence
(9300 ft.), rises in the N.; is covered with luxuriant vegetation, and
yields maize and yams, some coffee, and palm-oil and wine; is inhabited
by the Bubis, a Bantu tribe; is the chief of the Spanish Guinea Isles.

{{anchor|Ferozepore}}'''Ferozepore''' (50), the chief town of the district of the same name in
the Punjab, India, a few miles S. of the Sutlej; is strongly fortified,
and contains a large arsenal; the present town was laid out by Lord
Lawrence. '''F. District''' (887), lies along the S. bank of the Sutlej;
came into the possession of the British in 1835; cereals, cotton, sugar,
and tobacco are cultivated.

{{anchor|Ferrar, Nicholas}}'''Ferrar, Nicholas''', a religious enthusiast in the reign of Charles I.;
was elected a Fellow of Clare Hall, Cambridge, in 1610; afterwards
devoted himself to medicine and travelled on the Continent; subsequently
joined his father in business in London, and entered Parliament in 1624;
but a year later retired to the country, and at Little Gidding,
Huntingdonshire, founded, with some of his near relations, a religious
community, known as the &amp;ldquo;Arminian Nunnery,&amp;rdquo; some account of which is
given in Shorthouse's &amp;ldquo;John Inglesant&amp;rdquo;; it was broken up by the Puritans
in 1647; he was the intimate friend of George Herbert; this community
consisted of some &amp;ldquo;fourscore persons, devoted to a kind of Protestant
monasticism; they followed celibacy and merely religious duties, employed
themselves in binding prayer-books, &amp;amp;c., in alms-giving and what
charitable work was possible to them in their desert retreat, kept up,
night and day, a continual repetition of the English liturgy, never
allowing at any hour the sacred fire to go out&amp;rdquo; (1592-1637).

{{anchor|Ferrar, Robert}}'''Ferrar, Robert''', an English prelate, born at Halifax, was prior of
the monastery of St. Oswald's, embraced the Reformation, and was made
Bishop of St. David's by Edward VI.; suffered martyrdom under Mary in
1555.

{{anchor|Ferrara}}'''Ferrara''', a broadsword bearing the name of Andrea Ferrara, one of an
Italian family famous in the 16th and 17th centuries for the quality of
their swords.

{{anchor|Ferrara}}'''Ferrara''' (31), a fortified and walled Italian city, capital of the
province of the name, situated on a low and marshy plain between the
dividing branches of the Po, 30 m. from the Adriatic; it has many fine
ecclesiastical buildings and a university founded in 1264, with a library
of 100,000 vols., but now a mere handful of students; a fine old Gothic
castle, the residence of the [[../E#Este (family)|Estes]] (''q. v''.), still stands; it was the
birthplace of Savonarola, and the sometime dwelling-place of Tasso and
Ariosto; once populous and prosperous, it has now fallen into decay.

{{anchor|Ferrari, Gaudenzio}}'''Ferrari, Gaudenzio''', Italian painter and sculptor, born at Valduggia,
in Piedmont; studied at Rome under Raphael; many of his paintings and
frescoes are to be found in the Lombard galleries, and principally in
Milan; his work is characterised by bold and accurate drawing,
inventiveness, and strong colouring, but it somewhat lacks the softer
qualities of his art (1484-1550).

{{anchor|Ferrari, Paolo}}'''Ferrari, Paolo''', Italian dramatist, born at Modena; produced his
first play at the age of 25; his numerous works, chiefly comedies, and
all marked by a fresh and piquant style, are the finest product of the
modern Italian drama; in 1860 he was appointed professor of History at
Modena and afterwards at Milan; his dramatic works have been published in
14 vols. (1822-1889).

{{anchor|Ferrier, David}}'''Ferrier, David''', a distinguished medical scientist, born at Woodside,
Aberdeen; graduated in arts there; studied at Heidelberg, and coming to
Edinburgh graduated in medicine with high distinction in 1868; in 1872
became professor of Forensic Medicine at King's College, London, and
afterwards physician to the National Hospital for the Paralysed and
Epileptic; his most notable work has been done in connection with the
brain, and his many experiments on the brains of living animals have
resulted in much valuable information, embodied in his various writings;
is editor and co-founder of the periodical ''Brain''; ''b''. 1843.

{{anchor|Ferrier, James Frederick}}'''Ferrier, James Frederick''', a metaphysician of singular ability and
originality, born at Edinburgh; after graduating at Oxford was called to
the Scotch bar in 1832; but under the influence of Sir W. Hamilton,
metaphysics became his dominant interest, and he found an outlet for his
views in the pages of ''Blackwood'' by a paper on &amp;ldquo;Consciousness,&amp;rdquo; which
attracted the attention of Emerson; in 1842 was appointed professor of
History in Edinburgh University, and three years later of Moral
Philosophy in St. Andrews; published the &amp;ldquo;Institutes of Metaphysics,&amp;rdquo; a
lucid exposition of the Berkleian philosophy, and &amp;ldquo;Lectures on Greek
Philosophy,&amp;rdquo; and edited the works of his uncle and father-in-law,
Christopher North; &amp;ldquo;he belongs,&amp;rdquo; says Dr. Stirling, &amp;ldquo;to an era of thought
that was inaugurated by Thomas Carlyle&amp;rdquo; (1808-1864).

{{anchor|Ferrier, Susan Edmonston}}'''Ferrier, Susan Edmonston''', a Scottish novelist, aunt of the
preceding, born in Edinburgh, where her life was chiefly spent, her
father being Clerk in the Court of Session, and a colleague of Sir Walter
Scott; her novels, &amp;ldquo;Marriage,&amp;rdquo; &amp;ldquo;The Inheritance,&amp;rdquo; and &amp;ldquo;Destiny,&amp;rdquo; &amp;amp;c., are
rich in humour and faithful in their pictures of Scottish life and
character; Scott held her in high esteem, and kept up a warm friendship
with her till his death (1782-1854).

{{anchor|Ferrol}}'''Ferrol''' (26), a strongly fortified seaport in Galicia, Spain, 10 m.
NE. of Coru&amp;ntilde;a, on a narrow inlet of the sea which forms a splendid
harbourage, narrow at the entrance and capacious within, and defended by
two forts; it possesses one of the largest Spanish naval arsenals;
manufactures linen and cotton, and exports corn, brandy, and sardines.

{{anchor|Ferry, Jules Fran&amp;ccedil;ois Camille}}'''Ferry, Jules Fran&amp;ccedil;ois Camille''', a distinguished French statesman,
born at Saint Dié, in the Vosges; called to the Paris bar in 1854, he
speedily plunged into the politics of the time, and offered
uncompromising opposition to the party of Louis Napoleon; as a member of
the ''Corps Législatif'' he opposed the war with Prussia, but as central
mayor of Paris rendered signal service during the siege by the Germans;
during his tenure of office as Minister of Public Instruction in 1879 was
instrumental in bringing about the expulsion of the Jesuits; as Prime
Minister in 1880 and again in 1883-85 he inaugurated a spirited colonial
policy, which involved France in war in Madagascar, and brought about his
own downfall (1832-1893).

{{anchor|Fesch, Joseph}}'''Fesch, Joseph''', an eminent French ecclesiastic, born at Ajaccio, the
half-brother of Napoleon's mother; was educated for the Church, but, on
the outbreak of the Revolution, joined the revolutionaries as a
storekeeper; co-operated with his illustrious nephew in restoring
Catholicism in France, and became in 1802 archbishop of Lyons, and a
cardinal in 1803; as ambassador at Rome in 1804 he won the Pope's favour,
and brought about a more friendly understanding between him and Napoleon;
later he lost favour with the emperor, and retired to Lyons, whence in
1814 he fled to Rome, there to end his life; was a lover of art, and left
a magnificent collection of pictures (1763-1839).

{{anchor|Festus}}'''Festus''', the name of a poem by [[../B#Bailey, Philip James|Philip James Bailey]] (''q. v''.), first
published in 1839, but extended to three times its length since, a poem
that on its first production produced no small sensation.

{{anchor|Festus, Sextus Pompeius}}'''Festus, Sextus Pompeius''', a Latin grammarian of probably the 3rd
century; noted for an epitome of a great work by Verrius Flaccus on the
meaning and derivation of Latin words, which, although only a portion of
it exists, is regarded as an invaluable document, and is preserved at
Naples.

{{anchor|Fetichism}}'''Fetichism''', the worship of a fetich, an object superstitiously
invested with divine or demonic power, and as such regarded with awe and
worshipped.

{{anchor|Feudalism}}'''Feudalism''', or the Feudal system, that system which prevailed in
Europe during the Middle Ages and in England from the Norman Conquest, by
which vassals held their lands from the lord-superior on condition of
military service when required, for &amp;ldquo;the extreme unction day&amp;rdquo; of which
see [[../C#Carlyle, Thomas|Carlyle's &amp;ldquo;French Revolution,&amp;rdquo; vol. i. Bk. 4]].

{{anchor|Feuerbach, Ludwig Andreas}}'''Feuerbach, Ludwig Andreas''', German philosopher, son of the
succeeding, born at Landshut; studied theology at Hiedelberg, but coming
under the influence of Hegel went to Berlin and devoted himself to
philosophy; after failing in an attempt to support himself by lecturing
in Erlangen, he was fortunate in his marriage, and upon his wife's means
lived a retired and studious life at Bruckberg; in his philosophy, which
is a degeneracy and finally total departure from Hegel, he declines to
find a higher sanction for morality than man's own conception of right
and wrong as based on a doctrine of [[../H#Hedonism|Hedonism]] (''q. v''.); his chief work,
on the nature of Christianity, which was translated into English by
George Eliot, is extravagant in its departure from orthodox lines of
thought; his influence has been trifling outside his own country; he
began with Hegel, but &amp;ldquo;descended at last from Hegel's logical idea to
naked sense,&amp;rdquo; and what guidance for life might be involved in it
(1804-1872).

{{anchor|Feuerbach, Paul Johann Anselm von}}'''Feuerbach, Paul Johann Anselm von''', a highly distinguished criminal
jurist, born at Jena, where he studied philosophy and law; at 23 came
into prominence by a vigorous criticism of Hobbes's theory on civil
power; and soon afterwards, in lectures on criminal jurisprudence he set
forth his famous theory, that in administering justice judges should be
strictly limited in their decisions by the penal code; this new doctrine
gave rise to a party called &amp;ldquo;Rigorists,&amp;rdquo; who supported his theory; he
held professorships in Jena and in Kiel, and in 1804 was appointed to an
official post in Münich; in 1814 he became president of the Court of
Appeal at Anspach; his chief work was the framing of a penal code for
Bavaria, which became a model for several other countries (1775-1833).

{{anchor|Feuillans}}'''Feuillans''', a reformed brotherhood of Cistercian monks, founded in
1577 by Jean de la Barrière, abbot of the Cistercian monastery at
Feuillans, in Languedoc. The movement thus organised was a protest
against the laxity which had crept into the Church, and probably received
some stimulus from the Reformation, which was then in progress. The
Feuillans settled in a convent in the Rue St. Honoré, Paris, which in
after years became the meeting-place of a revolutionary club, which took
the name of Feuillans; founded in 1790 by Lafayette, La Rochefoucauld,
&amp;amp;c., and which consisted of members of the respectable property classes,
whose views were more moderate than those of the Jacobins. They could not
hold out against the flood of revolutionary violence, and on March 28,
1791, a mob burst into their place of meeting and dispersed them.

{{anchor|Féuillet, Octave}}'''Féuillet, Octave''', a celebrated French novelist, born at Saint-Lò, in
La Manche; started his literary career as one of Dumas' assistants, but
made his first independent success in the ''Revue des Deux Mondes'' by a
series of tales, romances, &amp;amp;c., begun in 1848; in 1862 he was elected a
member of the Academy, and later became librarian to Louis Napoleon; his
novels, of which &amp;ldquo;Le Roman d'un Jeune Homme Pauvre&amp;rdquo; and &amp;ldquo;Sibylle&amp;rdquo; are the
most noted, are graceful in style, and reveal considerable dramatic
force, but often lapse into sentimentality, and too often treat of
indelicate subjects, although in no spirit of coarseness (1812-1890).

{{anchor|Fez}}'''Fez''' (150), the largest city in Morocco, of which it is the second
capital; is surrounded by walls and prettily situated in the valley of
the Sebu, a stream which flows through its centre and falls into the
Atlantic 100 m. to the E. It has been for many centuries one of the most
important of the sacred cities of the Moslem; has many fine mosques, the
Sultan's palace, and an important university; is yet a busy commercial
centre, although signs of decay appear all over the city, and carries on
an active caravan trade with Central Africa.

{{anchor|Fezzan}}'''Fezzan''' (50), a Turkish province lying to the S. of Tripoli, to which
it is politically united; in character partakes of the desert region to
which it belongs, being almost wholly composed of barren sandy plateaux,
with here and there an oasis in the low valleys, where some attempt at
cultivation is made. The people, who belong to the Berber stock, are
Mohammedans, honest, but lazy and immoral. Murzuk (6) is the chief town.

{{anchor|Fiars}}'''Fiars''', an expression in Scotch law given to the prices of grain
which are determined, by the respective sheriffs in the various counties
assisted by juries. The Court for &amp;ldquo;striking the fiars&amp;rdquo; is held towards
the end of February in accordance with Acts of Sederunt of the Court of
Session. The prices fixed are used in the settling of contracts where no
prices have been determined upon, ''e. g''. in fixing stipends of ministers
of the Church of Scotland, and are found useful in other ways.

{{anchor|Fichte, Johann Gottlieb}}'''Fichte, Johann Gottlieb''', a celebrated German philosopher, born in
Upper Lusatia; a man of an intensely thoughtful and noble nature; studied
theology at Jena, and afterwards philosophy; became a disciple of Kant,
and paid homage to him personally at Königsberg; was appointed professor
of Philosophy at Jena, where he enthusiastically taught, or rather
preached, a system which broke away from Kant, which goes under the name
of &amp;ldquo;Transcendental Idealism,&amp;rdquo; and which he published in his
&amp;ldquo;Wissenschaftslehre&amp;rdquo; and his &amp;ldquo;System der Sittenlehre&amp;rdquo;; obliged to resign
his chair at Jena on a charge of atheism, he removed to Berlin, where he
rose into favour by his famous &amp;ldquo;Address to the Germans&amp;rdquo; against the
tyranny of Napoleon, and after a professorate in Erlangen he became head
of the New University, and had for colleagues such men as Wolff,
Humboldt, Scheiermacher, and Neander; he fell a victim to the War of
Independence which followed, dying of fever caught through his wife and
her nursing of patients in the hospitals, which were crowded with the
wounded; besides his more esoterico-philosophical works, he was the
author of four of a popular cast, which are worthy of all regard, on &amp;ldquo;The
Destiny of Man,&amp;rdquo; &amp;ldquo;The Nature of the Scholar,&amp;rdquo; &amp;ldquo;The Characteristics of the
Present Age,&amp;rdquo; and &amp;ldquo;The Way to the Blessed Life&amp;rdquo;; &amp;ldquo;so robust an intellect,
a soul so calm,&amp;rdquo; says Carlyle, &amp;ldquo;so lofty, massive, and immovable, has not
mingled in philosophic discussion since the time of Luther ... the cold,
colossal, adamantine spirit, standing erect and clear, like a Cato Major
among degenerate men; fit to have been the teacher of the Stoa, and to
have discoursed of Beauty and Virtue in the groves of Academe&amp;rdquo;
(1762-1814).

{{anchor|Fichtelgebirge}}'''Fichtelgebirge''', a mountain chain in North-East Bavaria, so called
from its having once been covered with pines, Fichtel meaning a pine. In
its valleys rise the Elbe, Rhine, and Danube; considerable quantities of
iron, copper, and lead are found, which give rise to a smelting industry,
while mother-of-pearl is obtained from the streams. The climate is cold
and damp, but the district has of late become a favourite resort of
tourists.

{{anchor|Ficino, Marsilio}}'''Ficino, Marsilio''', an eminent Italian Platonist, born at Florence; in
1463 became president of a Platonic school, founded by Cosmo de' Medici,
where he spent many years spreading and instilling the doctrines of
Plato, and, indeed, ancient philosophy generally; entered the Church in
1473, and under the patronage of Lorenzo de' Medici was appointed to the
canonry of Florence Cathedral; his religious beliefs were a strange blend
of Platonism and Christianity, but were the foundation of a pure life,
while his interest in classical studies helped considerably to further
the Renaissance (1433-1499).

{{anchor|Fick, August}}'''Fick, August''', a German philologist, born at Petershagan; spent his
life chiefly at Göttingen, where he first studied philology under Benfey;
became a teacher in the Gymnasium, and eventually in 1876 professor of
Comparative Philology in the university; in 1887 accepted a professorship
in Breslau, but retired four years later; author of a variety of learned
works on philology; ''b''. 1833.

{{anchor|Fidelio}}'''Fidelio''', a celebrated opera by Beethoven, and his only one.

{{anchor|Fides}}'''Fi`des''', the Roman goddess of fidelity, or steadfast adherence to
promises and engagements. Numa built a shrine for her worship and
instituted a festival in her honour; in later times a temple containing a
statue of her dressed in white adjoined the temple of Jupiter, on the
Capitol at Rome.

{{anchor|Field, Cyrus West}}'''Field, Cyrus West''', brother of the following, born at Stockbridge,
Massachusetts; was first a successful paper manufacturer, but turning his
attention to submarine telegraphy was instrumental in establishing cable
communication between England and America, and founded the Atlantic
Telegraph Company in 1856; on the successful laying of the 1866 cable,
since which time communication between the Old and New Worlds has never
been interrupted, he was awarded a gold medal and the thanks of the
nation; afterwards interested himself in developing the overhead railway
in New York (1819-1892).

{{anchor|Field, David Dudley}}'''Field, David Dudley''', an eminent American Jurist, born in Haddam,
Connecticut; for 57 years a prominent member of the New York bar, during
which time he brought about judiciary reforms, and drew up, under
Government directions, political, civil, and penal codes; interested
himself in international law, and laboured to bring about an
international agreement whereby disputes might be settled by arbitration
and war done away with; was President of the London Peace Congress in
1890 (1805-1894).

{{anchor|Field of the Cloth of Gold}}'''Field of the Cloth of Gold''', a plain near Guisnes, where Henry VIII.
had an interview with Francis I.; was so called from the magnificence
displayed on the occasion on the part of both sovereigns and their
retinue.

{{anchor|Fielding, Copley}}'''Fielding, Copley''', an eminent English water-colour painter; became
secretary and treasurer and finally president of the Society of
Water-Colour Painters (1787-1855).

{{anchor|Fielding, Henry}}'''Fielding, Henry''', a famous novelist, who has been styled by Scott
&amp;ldquo;the father of the English novel,&amp;rdquo; born at Sharpham Park, Glastonbury,
son of General Edmund Fielding and a cousin of [[../L#Montagu, Lady Mary Wortley|Lady Mary Wortley Montagu]]
(''q. v''.); was educated at Eton and at Leyden, where he
graduated in 1728; led for some years a dissipated life in London, and
achieved some celebrity by the production of a series of comedies and
farces, now deservedly sunk into oblivion; in 1735 he married Miss
Charlotte Cradock, and after a brief experiment as a theatre lessee
studied law at the Middle Temple, and was called to the bar; literature
was, however, his main pursuit, and in 1742 he came to the front with
&amp;ldquo;Joseph Andrews,&amp;rdquo; a burlesque on Richardson's &amp;ldquo;Pamela,&amp;rdquo; in which his
powers as a novelist first showed themselves; in 1743 followed three
volumes of &amp;ldquo;Miscellanies,&amp;rdquo; including &amp;ldquo;Jonathan Wild&amp;rdquo;; after his wife's
death he turned again to law, but in 1745 we find him once more engaged
in literature as editor of the ''True Patriot'' and afterwards of the
''Jacobite's Journal''; &amp;ldquo;Tom Jones,&amp;rdquo; his masterpiece, appeared in 1749, and
three years later &amp;ldquo;Amelia&amp;rdquo;; journalism and his duties as a justice of the
peace occupied him till 1754, when ill-health forced him abroad to
Lisbon, where he died and was buried. Fielding is a master of a fluent,
virile, and attractive style; his stories move with an easy and natural
vigour, and are brimful of humour and kindly satire, while his characters
in their lifelike humanness, with all their foibles and frailties, are a
marked contrast to the buckram and conventional figures of his
contemporary Richardson; something of the laxity of his times, however,
finds its way into his pages, and renders them not always palatable
reading to present-day readers (1707-1754).

{{anchor|Fieschi, Count}}'''Fieschi, Count''', a Genoese of illustrious family who conspired
against Andrea Doria, but whose plot was frustrated on the eve of its
fulfilment by his falling into the sea and being drowned as he stept
full-armed from one of his ships into another (1523-1547).

{{anchor|Fieschi, Joseph Marco}}'''Fieschi, Joseph Marco''', a Corsican conspirator; served under Murat
and in Russia in 1812; obtained a government post in 1830, and in
consequence of his discharge from this five years later he, by means of
an infernal machine, made an unsuccessful attempt to assassinate Louis
Philippe, for which, along with his accomplices, he was tried and
executed (1790-1836).

{{anchor|Fiesole}}'''Fiesole''', a small town, 3 m. from Florence, where the wealthy
Florentines have villas, and near which Fra Angelico lived as a monk.

{{anchor|Fife}}'''Fife''' (190), a maritime county in the E. of Scotland, which juts out
into the German Ocean and is washed by the Firths of Tay and Forth on its
N. and S. shores respectively, thus forming a small peninsula; has for
the most part a broken and hilly surface, extensively cultivated however,
while the &amp;ldquo;How of Fife,&amp;rdquo; watered by the Eden, is a fertile valley, richly
wooded; and valuable coal deposits are worked in the S. and W.; its long
coast-line is studded with picturesque towns, many of them of ancient
date, a circumstance which led James VI. to describe the county as &amp;ldquo;a
beggar's mantle fringed with gold&amp;rdquo;; it is associated with much that is
memorable in Scottish history.

{{anchor|Fifth-Monarchy Men}}'''Fifth-Monarchy Men''', a set of fanatics of extreme levelling
tendencies, who, towards the close of the Protectorate, maintained that
Jesus Christ was about to reappear on the earth to establish a fifth
monarchy that would swallow up and forcibly suppress all that was left of
the four preceding&amp;mdash;the Assyrian, the Persian, the Macedonian, and the
Roman; their standard exhibited the lion of the tribe of Judah couchant,
with the motto, &amp;ldquo;Who will rouse him up?&amp;rdquo; some of them conspired to murder
the Protector, but were detected and imprisoned till after his death.

{{anchor|Figaro}}'''Figaro''', a name given by the French dramatist Beaumarchais to a
cunning and intriguing barber who figures in his &amp;ldquo;Barbier de Seville&amp;rdquo; and
his &amp;ldquo;Mariage de Figaro,&amp;rdquo; and who has since become the type of all such
characters. The name has been adopted by various journals in England and
in France.

{{anchor|Figaro, Mariage de}}'''Figaro, Mariage de''', a play by Beaumarchais, &amp;ldquo;issued on the stage in
Paris 1784, ran its hundred nights; a lean and barren thing; succeeded,
as it flattered a pruriency of the time and spoke what all were feeling
and longing to speak.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Figuier, Louis}}'''Figuier, Louis''', a popular writer on scientific subjects, born at
Montpellier, where he became professor of Pharmacy in 1846, and
subsequently in Paris; his voluminous writings have done much to
popularise science, and they comprise a volume on alchemy and one in
defence of immortality; many of these have been received with favour in
England (1819-1894).

{{anchor|Fiji}}'''Fiji''' (125), a group of islands in the S. Pacific Ocean, known also
as the Viti Islands; they lie between 15&amp;deg;-22&amp;deg; S. lat. and 176&amp;deg; E.-178&amp;deg; W.
long., and are a dependency of Britain; sighted by Tasman in 1643, though
first discovered, properly speaking, by Cook in 1773, came first into
prominence in 1858, when the sovereignty was offered to England and
declined, but in 1874 were taken over and made a crown colony; they
number over 200 islands, of which Viti Leon and Vanua Leon are by far the
largest; Suva is the capital; sugar, cotton, vanilla, tea, and coffee are
cultivated, besides fruit.

{{anchor|Fildes, S. Luke}}'''Fildes, S. Luke''', artist, born in Lancashire; made his mark first as
a designer of woodcuts; contributed to various magazines and illustrated
books, notably Dickens's &amp;ldquo;Edwin Drood&amp;rdquo;; his most noted pictures are
&amp;ldquo;Applicants for a Casual Ward,&amp;rdquo; &amp;ldquo;The Widower,&amp;rdquo; and &amp;ldquo;The Doctor&amp;rdquo;; he was
made an R.A. in 1887; ''b''. 1844.

{{anchor|Filibuster}}'''Filibuster''', a name given to buccaneers who infested the
Spanish-American coasts or those of the West Indies, but more specially
used to designate the followers of Lopez in his Cuban expedition in 1851,
and those of Walker in his Nicaraguan in 1855; a name now given to any
lawless adventurers who attempt to take forcible possession of a foreign
country.

{{anchor|Filigree}}'''Filigree''', a name given to a species of goldsmith's ornamental work
fashioned out of fine metallic (usually gold or silver) wire into
lace-like patterns; the art is of ancient date, and was skilfully
practised by the Etruscans and Egyptians, as well as in Central Asia and
India.

{{anchor|Filioque Controversy}}'''Filioque Controversy''', a controversy which ended in the disruption of
the Western from the Eastern Church on the question whether the Spirit
proceeded from the Father and the Son or from the Father only, the
Western maintaining the former and the Eastern the latter.

{{anchor|Fillan, St.}}'''Fillan, St.''', a name borne by two Scottish saints: (1) the son of a
Munster prince, lived in the 8th century, was first abbot of the
monastery on the Holy Loch in Argyll, and afterwards laboured at
Strathfillan, Perthshire; some of his relics are to be seen in the
Edinburgh Antiquarian Museum; (2) or Faolan, known as &amp;ldquo;the leper,&amp;rdquo; had
his church at the end of Loch Earn, Perthshire; a healing well and chair
are associated with his name.

{{anchor|Fillmore}}'''Fillmore''', President of the United States from 1850 to 1853.

{{anchor|Finality John}}'''Finality John''', Lord John Russell, from his complacently pronouncing
the Reform Bill of 1832 a final measure.

{{anchor|Finch, Heneage}}'''Finch, Heneage''', first Earl of Nottingham and Lord Chancellor of
England, born in Kent, studied at Oxford, and was called to the bar in
1645; at the Restoration he was appointed Solicitor-General, and took an
active part in prosecuting the regicides; in 1670 he became
Attorney-General, and in 1675 Lord-Chancellor; he presided as Lord-High
Steward at the trial of Stafford in 1680, and pronounced judgment in a
speech of great eloquence (1621-1682).

{{anchor|Findlater, Andrew}}'''Findlater, Andrew''', encyclopedist, born near Aberdour, in
Aberdeenshire, of humble parentage; graduated at Aberdeen, and became a
schoolmaster at Tillydesk, and afterwards held the post of head-master of
Gordon's Hospital in Aberdeen; in 1853 joined the staff of Messrs. W. &amp;amp;
R. Chambers, Edinburgh, and became eventually editor of the first edition
of their encyclopedia (1861-1868); amongst other work done for the
Messrs. Chambers were various manuals on astronomy, geography, &amp;amp;c.; was a
man of wide and accurate scholarship (1810-1877).

{{anchor|Fingal}}'''Fingal''' or '''Fionn''', the great hero of Gaelic mythology,
represented by [[../O#Ossian|Ossian]] (''q. v''.) to have ruled over the kingdom of
Morven, which may be said to have been then co-extensive with Argyllshire
and the West Highlands; in ballad literature he is represented as
belonging also to Ireland.

{{anchor|Fingal's Cave}}'''Fingal's Cave''', a remarkable cave of basaltic formation on the coast
of the [[../S#Staffa|Isle of Staffa]] (''q. v''.); entrance to the cave is effected
in boats through a natural archway 42 ft. wide and 66 ft. high, and the
water fills the floor of this great hall to a distance of 227 ft.

{{anchor|Finisterre}}'''Finisterre''' or '''Finistère''' (727), the most westerly department of
France, washed on the N. by the English Channel, and on the S. and W. by
the Atlantic; has a rugged and broken coast-line, but inland presents a
picturesque appearance with tree-clad hills and fertile valleys; the
climate is damp, and there is a good deal of marshy land; mines of
silver, lead, &amp;amp;c., are wrought, and quarries of marble and granite;
fishing is largely engaged in; and the manufacture of linen, canvas,
pottery, &amp;amp;c., are important industries, while large quantities of grain
are raised.

{{anchor|Finland}}'''Finland''' (2,431), a grand-duchy forming the NW. corner of Russia; was
ceded by the Swedes in 1809, but still retains an independent
administration. The coast-line is deeply indented, and fringed with small
islands; the interior, chiefly elevated plateau, consists largely of
forest land, and is well furnished with lakes, many of which are united
by canals, one 36 m. connecting Lake Saima with the Gulf of Finland.
Various cereals (barley, oats, &amp;amp;c.) are grown, and there is a varied and
valuable fauna; fishing is an extensive industry, and no less than 80
kinds of fish are found in the rivers, lakes, and coast waters. The
country is divided into eight counties, and is governed by a Senate and
Diet, the reigning Russian emperor holding rank as grand-duke; education
is highly advanced; Swedish and Finnish are the two languages of the
country, Russian being practically unknown. There is an excellent Saga
literature, and the beginnings of a modern literature. The Finns came
under the dominion of the Swedes in the 12th and 13th centuries, and were
by them Christianised.

{{anchor|Finlay, George}}'''Finlay, George''', a distinguished historian, horn at Faversham, Kent,
but of Scotch parents; received a university training at Glasgow and
Göttingen, and in 1822 went to Greece, where he met Byron and fought in
the War of Independence; henceforth Greece became his home, and there,
after an unavailing effort to promote agriculture, he betook himself to a
studious life and to writing the history of his adopted country; his
valuable history, published in various parts, traces the national life of
Greece from 146 B.C. to A.D. 1864 (1799-1875).

{{anchor|Finmark}}'''Finmark''' (29), a province of Norway, lying in the extreme N., with a
rocky and indented coast and a barren and mountainous interior; fishing
is the main industry of the inhabitants, who are chiefly Lapps.

{{anchor|Finns}}'''Finns''', the native inhabitants of Finland, and originally of the
districts in Sweden and Norway as well, are of the Mongolian type, and
were settled in Europe before the arrival of the Slavic and Teutonic
races.

{{anchor|Fiords}}'''Fiords''', deep indentations forming inlets of the sea, especially on
the coast of Norway, overlooked by high mountains and precipitous cliffs.

{{anchor|Firdausi}}'''Firdausi''' or '''Firdusi''', the pseudonym of Abu-'l Kasim Mansur, the
great poet of Persia, born near Tûs, in Khorassan; flourished in the 10th
century B.C.; spent 30 years in writing the &amp;ldquo;Shah Nama,&amp;rdquo; a national
epic, but having been cheated out of the reward promised by Sultan
Mahmud, he gave vent to bitter satire against his royal master and fled
the court; for some time he led a wandering life, till at length he
returned to his birthplace, where he died; a complete translation of his
great poem exists in French.

{{anchor|Fire-Worship}}'''Fire-Worship''', worship of fire, especially as embodied in the sun
viewed as the most express and emphatic exhibition of beneficent divine
power.

{{anchor|Firmament}}'''Firmament''', a name given to the vault of the sky conceived as a solid
substance studded with stars, so applied in the Vulgate.

{{anchor|Firman}}'''Firman''', a Persian word denoting a mandate or decree; among the Turks
the term is applied to such decrees as issue from the Ottoman Porte, and
also to passports, the right of signing which lies with the Sultan or a
Pasha; the word is also used in India to denote a permit to trade.

{{anchor|Firmin, St.}}'''Firmin, St.''', bishop of Amiens, who suffered martyrdom in 287.
Festival, Sept. 25.

{{anchor|First Gentleman of Europe}}'''First Gentleman of Europe''', George IV., from his fine style and
manners.

{{anchor|Fischart, Johann}}'''Fischart, Johann''', a German satirist; an imitator of Rabelais
(1545-1589).

{{anchor|Fischer, Ernst Kuno Berthold}}'''Fischer, Ernst Kuno Berthold''', a German historian of philosophy, born
at Sandewalde, Silesia; as a student of Erdmann at Halle he was smitten
with the love of philosophy, and gave his life to the study of it; after
graduating he went to Heidelberg and there established himself as a
private lecturer, in which capacity he was eminently successful, but in
1853 was deprived of his status by Government, probably on account of the
alleged Pantheistic trend of his teaching; in 1856, however, he was
elected to the chair of Philosophy in Jena, and 16 years later was called
back to Heidelberg as Zeller's successor; his chief work is a &amp;ldquo;History of
Modern Philosophy&amp;rdquo;; ''b''. 1824.

{{anchor|Fisher, John}}'''Fisher, John''', bishop of Rochester, born at Beverley; was
distinguished at Cambridge, and became chaplain and confessor to the
Countess of Richmond, Henry VII.'s mother, who had him appointed
professor of Divinity at his ''alma mater''; in 1504 he was elected
Chancellor of the University and made bishop of Rochester, but incurred
the royal displeasure by opposing Henry VIII.'s divorce of Catherine of
Aragon, and by upholding the Pope's supremacy; became involved in the
deceptions of Elizabeth Barton, maid of Kent, and was sent to the Tower
in 1534 for refusing to take the oath of succession; was created a
cardinal, but was beheaded by order of the king ere his hat arrived; was
beatified in 1886 (1469-1535).

{{anchor|Fiske, John}}'''Fiske, John''', American writer, born at Hartford, Conn., U.S.;
studied at Harvard; in 1869 lectured at his old university as a
Positivist, and was under-librarian from 1872 to 1879; he is the author
of a number of works on Darwinism, American history, philosophy, etc.;
''b''. 1842.

{{anchor|Fitch, John}}'''Fitch, John''', an American inventor, born in Connecticut; led a life
of adventure, at one time acting as gunsmith to the American
revolutionaries and at another falling into the hands of Indians whilst
trading in the West; in 1785 he brought out a model steamboat with side
wheels, and in 1788 and in 1790 constructed larger vessels, one of the
latter being for some time employed as a passenger boat; some of his
plans are said to have fallen into Robert Fulton's hands and given him
the idea of his steamship; disheartened by the ill-success of a trip to
France he committed suicide at Bardstown, Kentucky (1743-1798).

{{anchor|Fitz-Boodle, George}}'''Fitz-Boodle, George''', Thackeray's pseudonym in ''Fraser's Magazine''.

{{anchor|FitzGerald, Edward}}'''FitzGerald, Edward''', English scholar, born in Suffolk; at Cambridge,
where he graduated in 1830, he formed close friendships with James
Spedding and Thackeray, and afterwards was on intimate terms with Carlyle
and Tennyson; his life was quietly spent in his country residence in
Suffolk, varied by yachting expeditions and visits to London, where he
made the round of his friends; his first book, &amp;ldquo;Euphranor,&amp;rdquo; a dialogue on
youth, appeared when he was 42, &amp;ldquo;Polonius&amp;rdquo; followed and some Spanish
translations, but his fame rests on his translations of Persian poetry,
and especially on his rendering of the 11th-century poet, Omar Khayyám
(1809-1883).

{{anchor|Fitzgerald, Lady}}'''Fitzgerald, Lady''', a daughter of Egalité and Mme. Genlis, called
Pamela; distinguished for her beauty and enthusiasm for liberty, and who
became the wife of [[../L#Fitzgerald, Lord Edward|Lord Fitzgerald]], the Irish patriot (''q. v''.);
''d''. 1831.

{{anchor|Fitzgerald, Lord Edward}}'''Fitzgerald, Lord Edward''', the younger son of the Duke of Leinster,
born at Carlton Castle, near Dublin; spent his early years in France;
joined the English army and served with distinction in the American War;
in 1784 he was elected to the Irish Parliament, and opposed the English
Government; was attracted to France by the Revolution, but returned to
Ireland and joined the United Irishmen in 1796, and began plotting the
rising of 1798; his scheme was betrayed, and he was arrested in Dublin
after a determined resistance, during which he received wounds of which
he died in prison (1763-1798).

{{anchor|Fitzherbert, Mrs.}}'''Fitzherbert, Mrs.''', a Roman Catholic lady, maiden name Maria Anne
Smythe, with whom, after her second widowhood, George IV., while Prince
of Wales, contracted a secret marriage in 1785, which, however, under the
Royal Marriage Act, was declared invalid (1756-1837).

{{anchor|Fitzroy, Robert}}'''Fitzroy, Robert''', admiral, navigator, and meteorologist, born at
Ampton Hall, near Bury St. Edmunds; entered the navy at 14, and in
1828-1830 conducted a survey of the coasts of Patagonia and Tierra del
Fuego, a work he continued while commanding the ''Beagle'' (1831-1836), in
which Darwin accompanied him; in 1843-1845 was governor of New Zealand;
in his later years devoted himself to meteorology, and, on the retired
list, rose to be vice-admiral; published accounts of his voyages, etc.;
under pressure of work his mind gave way, and he committed suicide
(1805-1865).

{{anchor|Fitzwilliam, William, Earl}}'''Fitzwilliam, William, Earl''', a politician of George the Third's time;
the excesses of the French Revolution caused him to come over from the
Whigs and support Pitt; favoured Catholic emancipation during his
Lord-Lieutenancy of Ireland, but was recalled; held office under
Grenville in 1806, and took some part in the Reform Bill agitation of the
day (1748-1833).

{{anchor|Fiume}}'''Fiume''' (29), a seaport of Hungary, on the Adriatic, at the rocky
entrance of the Fiumara, 40 m. SE. of Trieste; a new town of spacious and
colonnaded streets and many fine buildings, has grown up on the ground
sloping down from the old town; has an excellent harbour, and flourishing
industries in paper, torpedoes, tobacco, etc., besides being the entrepôt
of an important and increasing commerce.

{{anchor|Flacius}}'''Flacius''' or '''Vlacich, Matthias''', surnamed Illyricus, a German
theologian, born at Albona, in Illyria; was the pupil of Luther and
Melanchthon; became professor of the Old Testament Scriptures at
Wittenberg, but four years later lost his position on account of certain
attacks he made on Melanchthon; subsequently he was elected professor at
Jena, but was again deposed for heterodox notions on original sin; died
in poverty; was author of an ecclesiastical history and other works
(1520-1575).

{{anchor|Flagellants}}'''Flagellants''', a set of medieval fanatics, who first arose in Italy in
1260, and subsequently appeared in other quarters of Europe, and who
thought by self-flagellation to atone for sin and avert divine judgment,
hoping by a limited number of stripes to compensate for a century of
scourgings; the practice arose at a time when it was reckoned that the
final judgment of the world was at hand.

{{anchor|Flahault de la Billarderie, Auguste Charles Joseph, Comte de}}'''Flahault de la Billarderie, Auguste Charles Joseph, Comte de''', a
French soldier and diplomatist, born at Paris; was aide-de-camp to
Napoleon, and for distinguished services in the Peninsular war and at
Leipzig was made a general and count; fought at Waterloo, and two years
later married Margaret Elphinston, who by inheritance became Baroness
Keith; he was ambassador at the Courts of Venice (1841-48) and at London
(1860) (1785-1870).

{{anchor|Flambard, Randolph}}'''Flambard, Randolph''', a Norman who came over with the Conqueror to
England and became chaplain to William Rufus, whom he abetted and
pandered to in his vices, in return for which, and a heavy sum he paid,
he was in 1099 made bishop of Durham.

{{anchor|Flamboyant}}'''Flamboyant''', the name given, from the flame-like windings of its
tracery, to a florid style of architecture in vogue in France during the
15th and 16th centuries.

{{anchor|Flamens}}'''Flamens''', priests elected in Rome by the people and consecrated by
the chief pontiff to the service of a particular god, such as Jupiter,
Mars, &amp;amp;c.

{{anchor|Flaminius, Caius}}'''Flaminius, Caius''', a Roman tribune and consul, who constructed the
Flaminian Way; perished at Lake Trasimene, where he was defeated by
Hannibal in the Second Punic War, 217 B.C.

{{anchor|Flaminius, T. Quintus}}'''Flaminius, T. Quintus''', a Roman consul, who defeated Philip of
Macedon and proclaimed the freedom of Greece, and it was his close
neighbourhood to Hannibal that induced the latter to take poison rather
than fall into his hands (230-174 B.C.).

{{anchor|Flammarion, Camille}}'''Flammarion, Camille''', French astronomer, born at Montigny-le-Roi; he
was attached to the Paris Observatory in 1858, and by means of books and
lectures has spent a busy life in popularising his science; many of his
works have been translated into English; ''b''. 1842.

{{anchor|Flamsteed, John}}'''Flamsteed, John''', the first astronomer-royal of England, born near
Derby; his devotion to astronomy gained him the favour of Sir Jonas
Moore, who was the means of getting him the appointment of
astronomer-royal in 1675; from the Observatory of Greenwich, specially
built for his use, he catalogued the fixed stars and supplied Newton with
useful information bearing on his lunar theory; in 1675 he took holy
orders, and was presented to the living of Burstow in Surrey, which he
held till his death (1646-1719).

{{anchor|Flanders}}'''Flanders''', the land of the Flemings, borders upon the North Sea,
formerly extended from the Scheldt to the Somme, and included, besides
the present Belgian provinces of East and West Flanders, part of Zealand,
and also of Artois, in France; the ancient county dates from 862, in
which year Charles the Bold of France, as suzerain, raised it to the
status of a sovereign county, and bestowed it upon his son Baldwin I.; it
has successively belonged to Spain and Austria, and in Louis XIV.'s reign
a portion of it was ceded to France, now known as French Flanders, while
Zealand passed into the hands of the Dutch; the remainder was in 1714
made the Austrian Netherlands, and in 1831 was incorporated with the new
kingdom of [[../B#Belgium|Belgium]] (''q. v''.).

{{anchor|Flandrin}}'''Flandrin''', a French painter, born at Lyons; was a pupil of Ingres;
represented the religious movement in art in the 19th century
(1809-1864).

{{anchor|Flaubert, Gustave}}'''Flaubert, Gustave''', a realistic romancer, born at Rouen; author of
&amp;ldquo;Madame Bovary,&amp;rdquo; a study of provincial life, which became the subject of
a prosecution, and &amp;ldquo;Salammbô,&amp;rdquo; wonderful for its vigour and skill in
description; he indulged in repulsive subjects (1821-1880).

{{anchor|Flavel, John}}'''Flavel, John''', an English Nonconformist divine of spiritualising
tendencies, much read by pious people of his class; ''d''. 1691.

{{anchor|Flaxman, John}}'''Flaxman, John''', an eminent sculptor, born at York; was brought up in
London, where his father carried on business as a moulder of plaster
figures; his love of drawing and modelling soon marked him out as an
artist, and helped by friends he devoted himself to art; exhibited at the
age of 12, and won the silver medal of the Royal Academy at 14; for some
years he supplied the Wedgwoods with designs for their famous pottery,
and in 1787 he went to Rome, which for seven years became his home; in
1810 became professor of Sculpture to the Royal Academy; besides many
fine statues of eminent men and much exquisite work in bas-reliefs, he
executed a series of noble designs illustrating Homer, Dante, and
Æschylus; he was a Swedenborgian by religious creed (1755-1826).

{{anchor|Flechier}}'''Flechier''', a famous French pulpit orator, bishop of Nîmes; his
funeral orations compare with Bossuet's (1632-1710).

{{anchor|Fleet Marriages}}'''Fleet Marriages''', clandestine marriages, suppressed in 1754,
performed without license by the chaplains of Fleet Prison, London.

{{anchor|Fleet Prison}}'''Fleet Prison''', a celebrated London jail in Farringdon Street; was a
debtor's prison as far back as the 12th century.

{{anchor|Fleetwood, Charles}}'''Fleetwood, Charles''', a Cromwellian officer; fought as
lieutenant-general against the king at Worcester, and acted as
lord-deputy in Ireland; on the death of Cromwell advised the abdication
of Richard; ''d''. 1692.

{{anchor|Flegel}}'''Flegel''', African explorer, born in Wilna, of German descent; made
three journeys from Europe to explore the Niger territory, in which he
made important discoveries; was suddenly stricken down in the last
(1855-1886).

{{anchor|Fleischer, Heinrich Leberecht}}'''Fleischer, Heinrich Leberecht''', Orientalist, born at Schandau,
Saxony; after a university training at Leipzig he undertook a catalogue
of the Oriental MSS. in the royal library at Dresden, and in 1836 became
professor of Oriental Languages at Leipzig; did important work as a
critical editor of Oriental works and MSS. (1801-1888).

{{anchor|Fleming, Paul}}'''Fleming, Paul''', a celebrated German poet, born at Hartenstein,
Vogtland; received a medical training at Leipzig, and was engaged in
embassies in Russia and Persia; settled in Hamburg in 1639, but died the
following year; as a lyrist he stood in the front rank of German poets
(1609-1640).

{{anchor|Flemish School}}'''Flemish School''', a school of painting established in the 15th
century, and to which Reubens, Vandyck, and Teniers belonged.

{{anchor|Fleshly School}}'''Fleshly School''', a name given by Robert Buchanan to a realistic
school of poets, to which Rossetti, William Morris, and Swinburne belong.

{{anchor|Flesselles}}'''Flesselles''', the last provost of the merchants of the Hôtel de Ville,
Paris; &amp;ldquo;shot by an unknown hand at the turn of a street&amp;rdquo; after the fall
of the Bastille (1721-1789).

{{anchor|Fletcher, Andrew}}'''Fletcher, Andrew''', of Saltoun, a Scottish patriot and politician;
after travelling on the Continent for four years he entered the Scottish
Parliament, but got into trouble through his opposition to James, Duke of
York, the Royal Commissioner in Scotland, and fled to Holland; his
estates were confiscated, and for the next seven years he was a political
refugee; he took part in the Rye House Plot and in Monmouth's invasion;
his estates were restored in 1688, and he again sat in the Scottish
Parliament; he was an active promoter of the abortive Darien Scheme, and
a strong opponent of the Union of 1707 (1653-1716).

{{anchor|Fletcher, Giles}}'''Fletcher, Giles''', an English poet, born in London; was the
unappreciated rector of Alderton, in Suffolk, and author of a fervid and
imaginative poem, &amp;ldquo;Christ's Victory and Triumph,&amp;rdquo; which won the
admiration of Milton (1588-1623).

{{anchor|Fletcher, John}}'''[[Author:John Fletcher|Fletcher, John]]''', English dramatist, the son of a bishop of London;
was left an orphan and in poverty; collaborated with [[../B#Beaumont, Francis|Beaumont]] (&lt;i&gt;q.
v&lt;/i&gt;.) in the production of the plays published under their joint names;
died of the plague (1570-1625).

{{anchor|Fletcher, Phineas}}'''Fletcher, Phineas''', poet, brother of preceding; was rector of Hilgay,
Norfolk; celebrated for his poem the &amp;ldquo;Purple Island, or the Isle of Man,&amp;rdquo;
an ingenious allegory descriptive of the human body&amp;mdash;''i. e''. the Purple
Island&amp;mdash;and its vices and virtues.

{{anchor|Fleurant, Monsieur}}'''Fleurant, Monsieur''', a character in Molière's &amp;ldquo;Malade Imaginaire.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Fleur-de-lis}}'''Fleur-de-lis''' (''i. e''. lily-flower), a badge of ultimately three
golden ''fleurs-de-lis'' on a blue field, borne from the days of Clovis on
their arms by the kings of France.

{{anchor|Fleury, André Hercule de. Cardinal}}'''Fleury, André Hercule de. Cardinal''', French statesman, born at
Lodève, in Languedoc; studied philosophy in Paris; became a doctor of the
Sorbonne and almoner to the Queen and King Louis XIV., who subsequently
made him bishop of Frèjus and tutor to his son Louis; in 1726 he was
chosen Prime Minister by Louis XV., and created a cardinal; he carried
through a successful war with Germany, which resulted in the acquisition
of Lorraine by France, but although honest and cautious, he cannot be
styled a great statesman (1653-1743).

{{anchor|Fleury, Claude, Abbé}}'''Fleury, Claude, Abbé''', an ecclesiastical historian, born in Paris;
was at the outset of his career a successful advocate, but afterwards
entered the Church; as tutor he educated various princes, including an
illegitimate son of Louis XIV., who in reward appointed him to the priory
of Argenteuil; was chosen confessor to the young Louis XV., and in 1696
was elected to the Academy; his chief work is his great &amp;ldquo;Ecclesiastical
History&amp;rdquo; in 20 vols., on which he laboured for 30 years, and the
learning, ability, and impartiality of which procured for him the esteem
of all parties (1640-1723).

{{anchor|Flinders, Matthew}}'''Flinders, Matthew''', a naval officer, born in Lincolnshire; explored
the coast of Australia, experiencing not a few adventures, and adding
materially to our geographical knowledge (1760-1814).

{{anchor|Flint}}'''Flint''', 1, a maritime county (77) of North Wales, between Lancashire
and Denbigh, of which a detached portion lies to the N. of Shropshire;
low stretches of sand form its foreshore, but inland it is hilly, with
here and there a picturesque and fertile valley in which dairy-farming is
extensively carried on. 2, a seaport (5), on the estuary of the Dee, 13
m. NW. of Chester; has ruins of a castle with interesting historical
associations; in the neighbourhood are copper-works and lead and coal
mines.

{{anchor|Flint, Robert}}'''Flint, Robert''', a theologian, born in Dumfriesshire; professor of
Divinity in Edinburgh University; an eminent scholar, a vigorous thinker,
and a man of broad sympathies, who takes a deep interest in all the vital
questions of the times, and has contributed to the solution of them; has
written on Theism, the Philosophy of History, Socialism, &amp;amp;c.; ''b''. 1838.

{{anchor|Floating Islands}}'''Floating Islands''' are sometimes formed of masses of driftwood on
which débris, vegetation, &amp;amp;c., gradually form a soil, but are more
commonly portions of river banks detached by the force of the current
when swollen and drifted put, sometimes as much as 100 m., to sea,
carrying with them plants, reptiles, and larger animals, and thus
contributing to the distribution to distant shores of animal and
vegetable life; they are to be met with off the mouths of the larger
American, Asian, and African rivers, and sometimes in inland seas and
lakes; Derwent Lake, in England, has a notable one, which sinks, and
rises periodically; they are also made artificially in districts subject
to floods as asylums of refuge.

{{anchor|Flodden, Battle of}}'''Flodden, Battle of''', fought on Flodden Hill, a low spur of the
Cheviots, 6 m. S. of Coldstream, between James IV. of Scotland and the
English under the Earl of Surrey on the 9th of September 1513, which
resulted in the crushing defeat of the Scots, who lost their king and the
flower of their nobility, an event celebrated in Jean Elliot's &amp;ldquo;Flowers
of the Forest&amp;rdquo;; a spirited account is given in the sixth canto of Scott's
&amp;ldquo;Marmion.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Flood, Henry}}'''Flood, Henry''', an Irish Nationalist, trained at Dublin and Oxford
Universities; entering the Irish Parliament, he by his fervid oratory
soon won a place in the front rank of Irish politicians; in 1769 he was
put on trial for killing an opponent in a duel, but was acquitted; from
1775 to 1781 he was Vice-Treasurer of Ireland; to Grattan's Irish Bill of
Right he offered bitter opposition, holding it to be an altogether
inadequate measure; in 1783 he was returned to the English House of
Commons, but failed to make his mark (1732-1791).

{{anchor|Flora}}'''Flora''', goddess of the blossom of flowers and the spring, an early
Roman divinity; had in the time of [[../N#Numa Pompilius|Numa]] a flamen (''q. v''.) to
herself.

{{anchor|Florence}}'''Florence''' (137), a famous Italian city, situated 50 m. from the sea;
it lies in the valley of the Arno, and is built on both sides of the
river, but chiefly on the N.; the outlying suburbs are singularly
beautiful, and are surrounded by finely wooded hills, bright with gay
villas and charming gardens; the old city itself is characterised by a
sombre grandness, and is full of fine buildings of historic and artistic
interest; chief amongst these is the cathedral, or Duomo, begun in 1298,
with its grand dome and campanile (293 ft.), by Giotto. It is the city of
Dante, Petrarch, Michael Angelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Boccaccio,
Machiavelli, Galileo and many more of Italy's great men, and has a
history of exceptional interest; it has many fine art galleries; is an
educational centre, and carries on a trade in straw-plaiting and silk.

{{anchor|Florian, Jean Pierre de}}'''Florian, Jean Pierre de''', a French novelist and writer of fables; was
the friend of Voltaire, from whom he received his first literary impulse;
was the author of several romances plays, &amp;amp;c., but his finest work is
found in his Fables, in which department of literature he ranks next La
Fontaine (1755-1794).

{{anchor|Florida}}'''Florida''' (391), &amp;ldquo;Land of Flowers,&amp;rdquo; the most southern of the American
States, forms a bold peninsula on the E. side of the Gulf of Mexico, and
has on its eastern shore the Atlantic; has a coast-line of 1150 m.; the
chief physical feature is the amount of water surface, made up of 19
navigable rivers and lakes and ponds to the number of 1200, besides
swamps and marshes; the climate is, however, equable, and for the most
part healthy; fruit-growing is largely engaged in; the timber trade
flourishes, also the phosphate industry, and cotton and the sugar-cane
are extensively cultivated; a successful business in cigar-making has
also of recent years sprung up, and there are valuable fisheries along
the coast; Florida was admitted into the Union in 1845; the capital is
Tallahassee.

{{anchor|Florio, John}}'''Florio, John''', the translator of Montaigne, born in London, of
Italian parents; was a tutor of foreign languages for some years at
Oxford, and in 1581 became a member of Magdalen College and teacher of
French and Italian; published two works of a miscellaneous character,
called &amp;ldquo;First Fruits&amp;rdquo; and &amp;ldquo;Second Fruits,&amp;rdquo; and an English-Italian
dictionary called a &amp;ldquo;World of Words,&amp;rdquo; but his fame rests on his
translation of Montaigne, which Shakespeare used so freely (1553-1625).

{{anchor|Florus}}'''Florus''', a Latin historian, contemporary of Trajan.

{{anchor|Fludd, Robert}}'''Fludd, Robert''', physician and theosophist, born at Milgate, Kent;
studied at Oxford, and travelled on the Continent, where he came under
the influence of Paracelsus's writings; settled in London as a doctor,
and published a work embodying a vague theosophy (1574-1637).

{{anchor|Flushing}}'''Flushing''' (13), a Dutch seaport, strongly fortified, on the island of
Walcheren, at the mouth of the western Scheldt; has an active shipping
trade, docks, arsenals, &amp;amp;c.

{{anchor|Fluxions}}'''Fluxions''', a method, invented by Sir Isaac Newton, of determining the
rate of increase or decrease of a quantity or magnitude whose value
depends on that of another which itself varies in value at a uniform and
given rate. See [[../C#Calculus, Differential and Integral|Calculus, Differential, and Integral]].

{{anchor|Flying Dutchman}}'''Flying Dutchman''', a Dutch captain, fated for his sins to scour the
sea and never reach port, who appeared from time to time to sea-captains
as on a black spectral ship, and from the very terror he inspired made
them change their course; there are many versions of this fable in the
German mythology.

{{anchor|Fo}}'''Fo''', the name in China for Buddha.

{{anchor|Fo-Hi}}'''Fo-Hi''', or '''Fuh-He''', the mythical founder of the Chinese dynasty,
is said to have introduced cattle-rearing, instituted marriage, and
invented letters.

{{anchor|Foix, Gaston de}}'''Foix, Gaston de''', illustrious French captain, nephew of Louis XII.,
was from his daring exploits called the Thunderbolt of Italy; he beat the
Swiss, routed the Papal troops, captured Brescia from the Venetians, and
gained the battle of Ravenna against the Spaniards, but was slain when
pursuing the fugitives (1489-1512).

{{anchor|Foix, Gaston III. de}}'''Foix, Gaston III. de''', French captain, surnamed Phoebus on account of
his beauty and handsome presence; distinguished in the wars against the
English and in the Jacquerie revolt, in which he rescued the dauphin at
Meaux (1331-1391).

{{anchor|Foley, John Henry}}'''Foley, John Henry''', an eminent sculptor, born in Dublin; his first
success was achieved in a series of classical figures, including some
Shakespearian subjects; statues of Hampden, Burke, J. S. Mill, Goldsmith,
&amp;amp;c., brought him further fame, and he was commissioned by the Queen to
execute the figure of Prince Albert in the Albert Memorial; his vigour
and genius were further revealed in the noble equestrian statues of
Hardinge and Outram (1818-1874).

{{anchor|Folkestone}}'''Folkestone''' (24), a seaport and watering-place on the coast of Kent,
7 m. SW. of Dover; has a fine harbour and esplanade; is much engaged in
the herring and mackerel fisheries, and is steam-packet station for
Boulogne; a fine railway viaduct spans the valley in which the old town
lies.

{{anchor|Fonblanque, Albany William}}'''Fonblanque, Albany William''', journalistic editor, after serving on
the staff of the ''Times'' and the ''Morning Chronicle'' became editor of the
''Examiner'', which he conducted successfully from 1830 to 1847; Carlyle
was introduced to him on his visit to London in 1831, and describes him
as &amp;ldquo;a tall, loose, lank-haired, wrinkly, wintry, vehement-looking flail
of a man,&amp;rdquo; but &amp;ldquo;the best of the Fourth Estate&amp;rdquo; then extant; &amp;ldquo;I rather
like the man,&amp;rdquo; he adds, &amp;ldquo;has the air of a true-hearted Radical&amp;rdquo;
(1793-1872).

{{anchor|Fontainebleau}}'''Fontainebleau''', a town on the left bank of the Seine, 35 m. SE. of
Paris, and famous for a château or palace of the kings of France, and the
forest that surrounds it. This château, founded towards the end of the
10th century, was enlarged and embellished by successive kings, beginning
with Francis I., and was the place where Napoleon signed his abdication
in 1814.

{{anchor|Fontanes, Louis, Marquis de}}'''Fontanes, Louis, Marquis de''', poet and man of letters, born at Niort,
Poitou; came to Paris and achieved some celebrity by his poems and
translations from Pope and Gray; changing from the Royalist side, he,
during the Revolution, edited two journals in the Republican interest,
and held the post of professor of Literature at the College of the Four
Nations; was for some time a refugee in England, but afterwards returned
and became a zealous supporter of Napoleon, on the downfall of whom he
embraced the Bourbon cause, and was raised to the peerage (1757-1821).

{{anchor|Fontenelle, Bernard le Bovier de}}'''Fontenelle, Bernard le Bovier de''', a miscellaneous French writer,
born at Rouen, a nephew of Corneille, whose Life he wrote; was designed
for the bar, but under his uncle's patronage embarked on a literary
career in Paris; he vehemently upheld the moderns in the famous literary
quarrel of Moderns ''versus'' Ancients, and brought upon himself the
satirical attacks of Boileau and Racine; became Secretary and then
President of the Académie des Sciences; died in his hundredth year; his
vigorous and versatile nature found vent in a wide variety of
writings&amp;mdash;literary, scientific, and historical; author of &amp;ldquo;Dialogues of
the Dead,&amp;rdquo; in imitation of Lucian, and &amp;ldquo;Conversations on the Plurality of
Worlds&amp;rdquo;; is credited with the saying, &amp;ldquo;A man may have his hand full of
truth, and yet only care to open his little finger,&amp;rdquo; and this other, &amp;ldquo;No
man was ever written down but by himself&amp;rdquo; (1657-1757).

{{anchor|Fontenoy}}'''Fontenoy''', a village in Belgium, 5 m. SW. of Tournay, where Marshal
Saxe beat the English, Dutch, and Austrians under the Duke of Cumberland
in 1745.

{{anchor|Foochow}}'''Foochow''' (630), a Chinese city, the capital of the province of
Fu-chien, situated on the Min, 125 m. NE. of Amoy. Massive walls 30 ft.
high enclose the original town, but the extensive suburbs reach down to
the river, which is bridged, and is a convenient waterway for trading
with the interior; it was made a free port in 1842, and is the centre of
a busy trade in tea, timber, and textiles.

{{anchor|Fools, Feast of}}'''Fools, Feast of''', a festival of wild mirth in the Middle Ages, held
on 1st January, in which the Ass of Scripture celebrity played a chief
part, and in which many of the rites and ceremonies of the Church were
travestied.

{{anchor|Foot-Pound}}'''Foot-Pound''', the name given in mechanics to the force required to
raise 1 lb. through 1 foot, the unit of work.

{{anchor|Foote, Samuel}}'''Foote, Samuel''', a celebrated English actor and playwright, born at
Truro, Cornwall, of a good family; was educated at Oxford, and studied
law, but ruined himself by gaming, and took to the stage; he became the
successful lessee of Haymarket Theatre in 1747, where, by his inimitable
powers of mimicry and clever comedies, he firmly established himself in
popular favour (1720-1777).

{{anchor|Forbes, Archibald}}'''Forbes, Archibald''', a noted war-correspondent, born in Morayshire;
was educated at Aberdeen University; served in a cavalry regiment, acted
as war-correspondent for the ''Daily News'' during the Franco-German war,
and has since been the brilliant chronicler of war news in all parts of
the globe; has published several volumes; ''b''. 1838.

{{anchor|Forbes, Duncan}}'''Forbes, Duncan''', of Culloden, a distinguished lawyer and patriotic
politician, born at Bunchrew; was trained at Edinburgh and Leyden, and
called to the Scotch bar in 1709; took an active part in putting down the
rebellion of 1715, and in 1722 entered Parliament; three years later he
was appointed Lord Advocate and Lord President of the Court of Session;
succeeded his brother in the estates of Culloden and Bunchrew; during the
1745 rebellion he was active in the Hanoverian interest, and did much to
quell the uprising; Forbes was a devoted Scot, and unweariedly strove to
allay the Jacobite discontent and to establish the country in peace, and
used his great influence and wealth to further these ends, services
which, in the end, impoverished him, and received little or no
recognition at the hands of Government (1685-1747).

{{anchor|Forbes, Edward}}'''Forbes, Edward''', a noted naturalist, born at Douglas, in the Isle of
Man; studied medicine at Edinburgh, where he became smitten with the love
of natural science, to which he devoted his life; in 1841 he accompanied
the ''Beacon'' as naturalist, and returning in 1843 found himself elected
to the chair of Botany in King's College, London; various geological
appointments followed, and in 1852 he became President of the Geological
Society, and two years later received the chair of Natural History in
Edinburgh; Forbes was a prolific author, and his writings cover the whole
field of natural science, to every section of which he has made
contributions of great value (1815-1854).

{{anchor|Forbes, James David}}'''Forbes, James David''', physicist, born at Edinburgh, the grandson of
Sir William, and the son of the first lady-love of Sir Walter Scott, and
very like her; was called to the bar in 1830; physical science, however,
was his ruling passion, and in 1833 he became professor of Natural
Philosophy in Edinburgh University, from which he was called in 1859 to
the Principalship of the United College, St. Andrews, in which he
succeeded Sir David Brewster, whom he had defeated in obtaining the
Edinburgh chair; he made some valuable contributions to natural science,
including discoveries in the polarisation of heat and in regard to the
motion of glaciers, to investigate which he travelled in Norway and in
the Alps (1809-1868).

{{anchor|Forbes, Sir John}}'''Forbes, Sir John''', physician, born at Cuttlebrae, Banffshire; entered
the navy as assistant-surgeon in 1807, and became M.D. of Edinburgh ten
years later; practised at Penzance and Chichester, but finally settled at
London in 1840, where he became physician to the Queen; was for twelve
years editor of the ''British and Foreign Medical Review'', which he
founded in 1836, and was joint-author of the &amp;ldquo;Cyclopædia of Practical
Medicine&amp;rdquo;; first to use the stethoscope in England (1787-1861).

{{anchor|Forbes, Sir William}}'''Forbes, Sir William''', an eminent banker, son of a Scotch advocate and
baronet, born in Edinburgh; became partner in the banking firm of Messrs.
John Coutts &amp;amp; Co.; two years later a new company was formed, of which he
rose to be manager, and which in 1830 became the Union Bank of Scotland;
he is author of a Life of his friend Beattie, the Scottish poet, and of
&amp;ldquo;Memoirs of a Banking-House&amp;rdquo; (1739-1806).

{{anchor|Ford, John}}'''Ford, John''', dramatist, born at Islington, North Devon; studied at
Oxford, and entered the Middle Temple in 1602, but was never called to
the bar; in 1606 appeared his first poetic work &amp;ldquo;Fame's Memorial,&amp;rdquo; an
elegy on the death of the Earl of Devonshire, and for the next 33 years
he was a prolific writer of plays, chiefly tragedies, collaborating in
some cases with Dekker and Webster; &amp;ldquo;The Broken Heart&amp;rdquo; was greatly
admired by Charles Lamb, and &amp;ldquo;Perkin Warbeck&amp;rdquo; is considered by Stopford
Brooke the best historical drama after Shakespeare; there is little of
the lighter graces about his work, and he is prone to go beyond the
bounds of nature in his treatment of the tragic, but his grip on the
greater human passions, and his power of moving presentment, are
undoubted (1586-1639).

{{anchor|Fordun, John of}}'''[[Author:John Fordun|Fordun, John of]]''', a Scottish chronicler; lived in the 14th century;
was a canon of Aberdeen Cathedral, and wrote a chronicle of Scottish
history, bringing the story up to 1153; materials for further volumes,
which he left, were utilised by Walter Bower, an abbot of Inchcolm, in
the Forth, who extended the account to 1437, but often tampered with
Fordun's narrative; the work is the chief authority in Scottish history
up to the time it treats of.

{{anchor|Foreland, North and South}}'''Foreland, North and South''', two rocky promontories on the E. coast of
Kent, which lie 16 m. apart; have the Downs and Goodwin Sands between
them; they are well marked with lighthouses.

{{anchor|Forensic Medicine}}'''Forensic Medicine''', or '''Medical Jurisprudence''', a branch of legal
science in which the principles of medicine are applied to the purposes
of the law, and originating out of the frequency with which medical
points arise in the administration of justice, ''e. g''. in murder trials
and in cases where insanity is involved.

{{anchor|Forest Laws}}'''Forest Laws''', laws enacted in ancient times for the purpose of
guarding the royal forest lands as hunting preserves, and which were up
to the time of Henry III. of excessive harshness, death being a not
infrequent penalty for infringement. The privileges of forest (at one
time the sole prerogative of the sovereign, but by him capable of being
vested in another), which might include the right to the wild animals in
the forests lying in the domains of a private estate, have now fallen
into abeyance, as also the special Forest Courts, while many of the royal
forests, which in Henry VIII.'s time numbered 69, have been
disafforested.

{{anchor|Forfar}}'''Forfar''' (13), the county town of Forfarshire, 14 m. NE. of Dundee;
manufactures linen; was once an important royal residence, and was made a
royal burgh by David I.

{{anchor|Forfarshire}}'''Forfarshire''' or '''Angus''' (278), a maritime county on the E. side of
Scotland, lying N. of the Firth of Tay; Strathmore and the Carse of
Gowrie are fertile valleys, where agriculture and cattle-rearing
flourish, and which, with the Braes of Angus in the N. and the Sidlaw
Hills to the S., make up a finely diversified county; jute and linen are
the most important articles of manufacture, of which Dundee and Arbroath
are centres; Forfarshire is a county particularly rich in
antiquities&amp;mdash;Roman remains, castles, priories, &amp;amp;c.

{{anchor|Formosa}}'''Formosa''' (3,500), a large island off the coast of China, from which
it is separated by the Fukien Channel, 90 m. broad. Formosa was ceded to
Japan by the Chinese in 1895; it is an island of much natural beauty, and
is traversed N. and S. by a fine range of hills; is famed for its
bamboos, and exports coal, rice, tea, &amp;amp;c. Name also of a large territory
in the Argentine.

{{anchor|Fornarina}}'''Fornarina''', a Roman lady of great beauty, a friend of Raphael's, and
who frequently posed as a model to him.

{{anchor|Forres}}'''Forres''' (3), a royal burgh in Elginshire, on the Findhorn, 2 m. from
the sea and 10 m. SW. of Elgin by railway; has ruins of a castle&amp;mdash;once a
royal residence&amp;mdash;and a famous &amp;ldquo;Stan'in Stane,&amp;rdquo; Sueno's Stone, 25 ft.
high, placed in the year 900.

{{anchor|Forrest, Edwin}}'''Forrest, Edwin''', a celebrated American actor, born in Philadelphia;
went on the stage at 14, and from the provinces made his way to New York,
where his rendering of Othello at the age of 20 raised him to the front
rank among actors; he made three tours in England, but during his last in
1845 he entirely lost the popular favour through his conduct in an
embittered quarrel with Macready; after his final appearance on the stage
in 1871 he continued for a short while to give Shakespearian readings; he
was a tragedian of the highest order, and in his profession amassed a
large fortune (1806-1872).

{{anchor|Fors Clavigera}}'''Fors Clavigera''', the name given by Ruskin to a series of letters to
workmen, written during the seventies of this century, and employed by
him to designate three great powers which go to fashion human destiny,
viz., ''Force'', wearing, as it were, (''clava'') the club of Hercules;
''For''titude, wearing, as it were, (''clavis'') the key of Ulysses; and
''For''tune, wearing, as it were, (''clavus'') the nail of Lycurgus; that is
to say, Faculty waiting on the right moment, and then striking in. See
Shakespeare's &amp;ldquo;Time and tide in the affairs of men,&amp;rdquo; &amp;amp;c., the &amp;ldquo;flood&amp;rdquo; in
which is the &amp;ldquo;Third Fors.&amp;rdquo; The letters are represented as written at the
dictation of the Third Fors, or, as it seems to the author, the right
moment, or the occurrence of it.

{{anchor|Förster, Ernst}}'''Förster, Ernst''', an art critic, brother of succeeding, author of a
number of elaborate and important works bearing on the history of art in
Germany and Italy; was the son-in-law of Jean Paul, whose works he
edited, and to whose biography he made contributions of great value
(1800-1885).

{{anchor|Förster, Friedrich Christoph}}'''Förster, Friedrich Christoph''', German poet and historian; his poetic
gifts were first called into exercise during the war of liberation, in
which he served as a volunteer, and the series of spirited war-songs he
then wrote procured him a wide-spread fame; afterwards he lived in
Berlin, teaching in the school of artillery, and subsequently becoming
custodian of the Royal Art Museum; besides poems he wrote several
historical and biographical works (1791-1868).

{{anchor|Forster, Johann George Adam}}'''Forster, Johann George Adam''', naturalist, son of the succeeding;
accompanied his father in the voyage with Cook, and contributed to the
literature anent the expedition; subsequently became professor of Natural
History at Cassel and at Wilna, and eventually librarian to the Elector
of Mayence in 1788; his works are published in 9 vols. (1754-1794).

{{anchor|Forster, Johann Reinhold}}'''Forster, Johann Reinhold''', a German naturalist and traveller, born in
Prussia; accompanied Captain Cook as a naturalist on his second
expedition to the South Seas, and in connection with which he wrote a
volume of observations; died professor of Natural History and Mineralogy
at Halle (1729-1798).

{{anchor|Forster, John}}'''Forster, John''', a noted English writer, born at Newcastle; was
educated for the bar, but took to journalism, and soon made his mark as a
political writer in the ''Examiner''; he subsequently edited the &lt;i&gt;Foreign
Quarterly Review&lt;/i&gt;, the ''Daily News'' (succeeding Dickens), and the
''Examiner'' (1847-56); he was the author of several historical sketches,
but his best-known works are the admirable biographies of Goldsmith,
Landor, and Dickens (1812-1876).

{{anchor|Forster, William Edward}}'''Forster, William Edward''', statesman, born at Bradpole, Dorset, son of
a Quaker; entered upon a commercial career in a worsted manufactory at
Bradford, but from the first politics engaged his paramount attention,
and in 1861 he became member of Parliament for Bradford; became in
succession Under-Secretary for the Colonies, Vice-president of the
Council of Education, and a Privy Councillor; his chief legislative
measure was the Elementary Education Bill of 1870, which, as a member of
Mr. Gladstone's Cabinet, he carried through Parliament, two years after
which the Ballot Act was introduced by him; in 1874 he visited the United
States, and on his return was elected Lord Rector of Aberdeen University;
as Irish Secretary in 1880 he made an earnest effort to grapple with the
Irish problem, but losing the support of his colleagues, over the
imprisonment of Mr. Parnell and other Land League leaders, he resigned;
he was married to Jane, eldest daughter of Dr. Arnold of Rugby; his
transparent honesty and rugged independence of character won him
universal esteem (1819-1886).

{{anchor|Fort Augustus}}'''Fort Augustus''', a small village on the Caledonian Canal, 33 m. SW. of
Inverness; the fort, built in 1716 and enlarged in 1730, was utilised as
a barrack during the disturbances in the Highlands, but after being
dismantled and again garrisoned down to 1857, it finally, in 1876, passed
into the hands of the [[../B#Benedictines|Benedictines]] (''q. v''.), who have converted
it into an abbey and college.

{{anchor|Fort George}}'''Fort George''', a fortress on the Moray Firth, 12 m. NE. of Inverness;
was built in 1748, and is now the head-quarters of the Seaforth
Highlanders.

{{anchor|Fort William}}'''Fort William''', a small police-burgh in Inverness-shire, 66 m. SW. of
Inverness, near the southern end of the Caledonian Canal; the railway
station stands on the site of the old fort, which in 1655 was built by
Monk; a meteorological observatory was erected here in 1889.

{{anchor|Fortescue, Sir John}}'''Fortescue, Sir John''', an eminent English lawyer, born in
Somersetshire; flourished in the 15th century; was called to the bar at
Lincoln's Inn, and in 1442 became Lord Chief-Justice of the Court of
King's Bench; he was a staunch Lancastrian during the Wars of the Roses,
and shared the exile of Queen Margaret and her son Edward, for whom he
wrote in dialogue form his famous &amp;ldquo;De Laudibus Legum,&amp;rdquo; a treatise still
read; the fate of the Lancastrian cause was sealed on the field of
Tewkesbury, and he himself was taken prisoner; he died at the advanced
age of 90.

{{anchor|Forth}}'''Forth''', a river of Scotland, formed by the junction of Duchray Water
and the Avondhu, streams which rise one on Ben Lomond and the other on
Ben Venue, and which, after 14 and 9 m., unite at Aberfoyle; the river
thence flows with many windings, called Links, through some of the
fairest country of the eastern lowlands to Alloa (51&amp;frac12; m.), where begins
the Firth, which stretches 51 m. to the German Ocean, and which at
Queensferry is spanned by a massive railway bridge known as the Forth
Bridge (1882-1890).

{{anchor|Fortuna}}'''Fortuna''', a Roman divinity, the goddess of luck, and especially good
luck, to whom Servius Tullius, in acknowledgment of her favours to him,
erected several temples in Rome; is represented in art as standing poised
on a globe or a wheel, to express her inconstancy.

{{anchor|Fortunatus}}'''Fortunatus''', a character in a popular German legend, who possessed a
''purse'' out of which he was able to provide himself with money as often
as he needed it and ''cap'', by putting on of which, and wishing to be
anywhere, he was straightway there; these he got, by his own free
election and choice, conceded to him by the Upper Powers, and they proved
a curse to him rather than a blessing, he finding out when too late that
&amp;ldquo;the god Wish is not the true God.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Forty Thieves}}'''Forty Thieves''', a fraternity in the &amp;ldquo;Arabian Nights&amp;rdquo; who inhabited a
secret den in a forest, the gate of which would open only to the magic
word &amp;ldquo;Sesamë.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Forum}}'''Forum''', a public place in Rome and Roman cities where the courts of
justice were held, and popular assemblies for civic business.

{{anchor|Forwards, Marshal}}'''Forwards, Marshal''', [[../B#Blücher|Marshal Blücher]] (''q. v''.).

{{anchor|Foscari}}'''Foscari''', a Doge of Venice from 1423 to his death; his reign was
distinguished by the glories of conquest, but his life was embittered by
the misfortunes of his sons, and the judicial tortures inflicted on one
of them which he was compelled to witness; he died at the age of 87,
broken-hearted (1370-1457).

{{anchor|Foscolo, Ugo}}'''Foscolo, Ugo''', an Italian patriot and author, born at Zante; his
literary career began in Venice with the successful performance of his
tragedy &amp;ldquo;Trieste,&amp;rdquo; but on the Austrian occupation of the town he joined
the French army; disappointed in the hope that France would unite with
and free Italy, he returned to literary work in Milan, and in 1809 was
called to the chair of Eloquenco in Pavia; but the conquering Austrians
again forced him to become a refugee, first in Switzerland and finally in
England, where he died; he was the author of various essays, poems, etc.,
and of a translation of Sterne's &amp;ldquo;Sentimental Journey&amp;rdquo; (1778-1827).

{{anchor|Foster, Birket}}'''Foster, Birket''', a celebrated artist, born at North Shields; his
earliest work was done in wood-engraving under the direction of Landells,
and many of his sketches appeared in the ''Illustrated London News'';
following this he executed, in collaboration with John Gilbert, a series
of illustrations for the works of Goldsmith, Cowper, Scott, and other
poets, in which he exhibited a rare skill in rural scenes; subsequent
work has been in water-colours, and in 1861 he was elected a member of
the Water-Colour Society (1825-1899).

{{anchor|Foster, John}}'''Foster, John''', an English essayist, born in Halifax, Yorkshire; was
trained for the Baptist ministry, and for 25 years officiated in various
congregations, but met with little success; from 1817 he devoted himself
solely to literature, and became a contributor to the ''Eclectic Review'',
for which he wrote no fewer than 184 articles; his best-known work is an
&amp;ldquo;Essay on the Evils of Popular Ignorance,&amp;rdquo; in which he advocates a system
of national education (1770-1843).

{{anchor|Fotheringay}}'''Fotheringay''', a village in Northamptonshire, on the Nen, 9 m. SW. of
Peterborough; the ruined castle there was the scene of the execution of
Mary, Queen of Scots, in 1587.

{{anchor|Foucault, John Bernard}}'''Foucault, John Bernard''', a French physicist, born in Paris;
distinguished for his studies in optics and problems connected with
light; demonstrated the rate of the rotation of the globe by the
oscillation of a pendulum (1819-1868).

{{anchor|Fouché, Joseph}}'''Fouché, Joseph''', Duke of Otranto, born at Nantes, a member of the
National Convention, and voted for the death of Louis XVI.; became
Minister of Police under Napoleon; falling into disfavour, was sent into
exile, but recalled to Paris in 1814; advised Napoleon to abdicate at
that time and again after Waterloo; served under Louis XVIII. for a time,
but was obliged at length to quit France for good; died at Trieste
(1763-1820).

{{anchor|Foula}}'''Foula''', a high and rocky islet among the Shetlands, 32 m. W. of
Lerwick; its sandstone cliffs on the NW. are 1220 ft. in height, and rise
sheer from the water; it is sparsely peopled; fishing is the almost sole
pursuit.

{{anchor|Fould, Achille}}'''Fould, Achille''', French statesman, born at Paris; entered political
life in 1842; became an authority in finance, served in that capacity
under Louis Napoleon (1800-1865).

{{anchor|Foulis, Robert}}'''Foulis, Robert''' and '''Andrew''', celebrated printers; were brought up
in Glasgow, where Robert, the elder, after practising as a barber, took
to printing, and in 1743 became printer to the university; his press was
far-famed for the beauty and accuracy of editions of the classics; Andrew
was trained for the ministry, but subsequently joined his brother; an
academy, started by the brothers in 1753 for engraving, moulding, etc.,
although a complete success artistically, involved them in expense, and
eventually financial ruin; they have been called the &amp;ldquo;Scottish Elzevirs&amp;rdquo;
(Robert, 1707-1776; Andrew, 1712-1775).

{{anchor|Foulon}}'''Foulon''', a French financier, nicknamed the ''Ame damnée'', Familiar
demon, of the parlement of Paris prior to the Revolution; &amp;ldquo;once, when it
was objected to some financial scheme of his, 'What will the people do?'
made answer, 'The people may eat grass,'&amp;rdquo; words which the people never
forgot; when attacked by them &amp;ldquo;he defended himself like a mad lion, but
was borne down, trampled, hanged, and mangled,&amp;rdquo; his head thereafter
paraded through the city on a pike and the mouth stuffed with grass
(1715-1789).

{{anchor|Foundling Hospitals}}'''Foundling Hospitals''' are institutions for the rearing of children who
have been deserted by their parents, and exist with varying regulations
in most civilised countries; the first foundling hospital was established
at Milan in 787, and others arose in Germany, Italy, and France before
the 14th century; the Paris foundling hospital is a noted institution of
the kind, and offers every encouragement for children to be brought in,
and admits legitimate orphans and children pronounced incorrigible
criminals by the court; the London foundling hospital was founded by
Captain Thomas Coram, and supports about 500 illegitimates.

{{anchor|Fouquier-Tinville}}'''Fouquier-Tinville''', a merciless revolutionary, born near Artois;
member of the Jacobin Club, Attorney-General of the Revolutionary
Tribunal, purveyor of the guillotine; was guillotined himself after the
fall of Robespierre (1747-1795).

{{anchor|Fourth Estate}}'''Fourth Estate''', the daily press, so called by Edmund Burke, pointing,
in the House of Commons, to the reporters' gallery.

{{anchor|Fourth of July}}'''Fourth of July''', the anniversary of the declaration of American
Independence in 1776.

{{anchor|Fowler, Sir John, K.C.M.G.}}'''Fowler, Sir John, K.C.M.G.''', civil engineer, born at Sheffield; was
actively engaged in the construction of numerous railways (notably the
London and Brighton), and in dock and bridge building; carried through
important works in Egypt in 1885, and, along with Sir B. Baker, he
designed the Forth Bridge, on the completion of which he received a
baronetcy (1817-1889).

{{anchor|Fox, Charles James}}'''[[Author:Charles James Fox|Fox, Charles James]]''', an eminent Whig statesman, third son of Henry
Fox, first Lord Holland, born in London; was educated at Eton and Oxford,
and at the age of 19 sat in Parliament for Midhurst; under Lord North he
held office, but quarrelled with the premier and went over to the Whigs,
then led by Rockingham; here he came under the influence of Burke, and
with him offered uncompromising opposition to the American War; in the
Rockingham ministry which followed he was Foreign Secretary, and
subsequently joined North in the short-lived coalition ministry of 1783;
during the next 14 years he was the great opponent of Pitt's Government,
and his brilliant powers of debate were never more effectively displayed
than in his speeches against Warren Hastings and in the debates arising
out of the French Revolution, in which he advocated a policy of
non-intervention; his sympathy with the French revolutionaries cost him
the friendship of Burke; during a retirement of five years he wrote his
&amp;ldquo;History of James II.&amp;rdquo;; on Pitt's death in 1806 he again came into office
as Foreign Secretary, but died shortly afterwards when about to plead in
the House of Commons the cause of slave abolition; Fox stands in the
front rank of our parliamentary debaters, and was a man of quick and
generous sympathies, but the reckless dissipation of his private life
diminished his popular influence, and probably accounts for the fact that
he never reached the highest office of State (1749-1806).

{{anchor|Fox, George}}'''[[Author:George Fox|Fox, George]]''', the first of the Quakers, born at Drayton,
Leicestershire; son of a poor weaver, and till his twentieth year plied
the trade of a shoemaker; conceived, as he drudged at this task, that he
had a call from above to withdraw from the world and give himself up to a
higher ministry; stitched for himself one day a suit of leather, and so
encased wandered through the country, rapt in his thoughts and bearing
witness to the truth that God had revealed to him; about 1646 began his
crusade against the religion of mere formality, and calling upon men to
trust to the &amp;ldquo;inner light&amp;rdquo; alone; his quaint garb won him the title of
&amp;ldquo;the man with the leather breeches,&amp;rdquo; and his mode of speech with his
&amp;ldquo;thou's&amp;rdquo; and &amp;ldquo;thee's&amp;rdquo; subjected him to general ridicule; but despite
these eccentricities he by his earnestness gathered disciples about him
who believed what he said and adopted his principles, and in the
prosecution of his mission he visited Wales, Scotland, America, and
various parts of Germany, not without results; he had no kindly feeling
towards Cromwell, with whom he had three interviews, and who in his
public conduct seemed to him to pay no regard to the claims of the &amp;ldquo;inner
light&amp;rdquo; and the disciples of it (1624-1690). See &amp;ldquo;[[../S#Sartor Resartus|Sartor Resartus]],&amp;rdquo;
Book iii. chap. i.

{{anchor|Fox, William Johnson}}'''Fox, William Johnson''', religious and political orator, born near
Southwold, Suffolk; was trained for the Independent ministry, but seceded
to the Unitarians, and subsequently established himself as a preacher of
pronounced rationalism at Finsbury; as a supporter of the Anti-Corn-Law
movement he won celebrity as an impassioned orator, and from 1847 to 1863
represented Oldham in Parliament; he was editor of the &lt;i&gt;Monthly
Repository&lt;/i&gt;, and a frequent contributor to the ''Westminster Review'', and
published various works on political and religious topics (1786-1864).

{{anchor|Foxe, John}}'''Foxe, John''', martyrologist, born at Boston, Lincolnshire; in 1545 he
resigned his Fellowship in Magdalen College, Oxford, on account of his
espousing the doctrines of the Reformation, and for some years after he
acted as a private tutor in noble families; during Queen Mary's reign he
sought refuge on the Continent, where he formed acquaintance with Knox
and other leading Reformers; he returned to England on the accession of
Elizabeth, and was appointed a prebend in Salisbury cathedral, but his
Nonconformist leanings precluded his further preferment; his most famous
work is his &amp;ldquo;Book of Martyrs,&amp;rdquo; first published in Latin on the Continent,
the noble English version appearing in 1563 (1516-1587).

{{anchor|Foyers, Fall of}}'''Foyers, Fall of''', a fine cascade, having a fall of 165 ft., on the
lower portion of the Foyers, a river of Inverness-shire, which enters
Loch Ness on the E. side, 10 in. NE. of Fort Augustus.

{{anchor|Fra Diavolo}}'''Fra Diavolo''', chief of a band of Italian brigands, born in Calabria;
leader in sundry Italian insurrections; was hanged at Naples for
treachery, in spite of remonstrances from England; gave name to an opera
by Auber, but only the name (1760-1806).

{{anchor|Fracastoro, Girolamo}}'''Fracas`toro, Girolamo''', a learned physician and poet, born at Verona;
became professor of Dialectic at Padua in his twentieth year;
subsequently practised as a physician, but eventually gave himself up to
literature (1483-1553).

{{anchor|Fragonard, Jean Honoré}}'''Fragonard, Jean Honoré''', a French artist, born at Grasse; gained the
&amp;ldquo;prix de Rome&amp;rdquo; in 1752, and afterwards studied in Rome; was a member of
the French Academy, and during the Revolution became keeper of the Musée;
many of his paintings are in the Louvre, and are characterised by their
free and luscious colouring (1732-1806).

{{anchor|Franc}}'''Franc''', a silver coin 835/1000 fine, the monetary unity of France
since 1799, weighs 5 grammes and equals about 9&amp;frac12; d. in English currency
(&amp;pound;1 = 25.3 francs); has been adopted by Belgium and Switzerland, while
under other names a similar coin is in use in Spain (peseta), Italy
(lira), and Greece (drachma).

{{anchor|France}}'''France''' (38,343), the land of the French; a nation standing in the
front rank among the powers of Europe. It occupies a geographical
position of peculiar advantage in the western portion of it, having a
southern foreshore on the Mediterranean and a western and northern
seaboard washed by the Atlantic and the English Channel, possessing
altogether a coast-line, rather undeveloped however, of upwards of 2000
m., while to the E. it abuts upon Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, and
Italy. It is divided into 87 departments, including Corsica. It is mainly
composed of lowland and plateau, but has the Cévennes in the S., while
the Pyrenees and Alps (with the Vosges and Ardennes farther N.) lie on
its southern and eastern boundaries. Rivers abound and form, with the
splendid railway, canal, and telegraph systems, an unrivalled means of
internal communication; but there are singularly few lakes. It enjoys on
the whole a fine climate, which favours the vineyards in the centre (the
finest in the world), the olive groves in the S., and the wheat and
beetroot region in the N. The mineral wealth is inconsiderable, and what
of coal and iron there is lies widely apart. Her manufactures, which
include silk, wine, and woollen goods, are of the best, and in fine
artistic work she is without an equal. The colonies are together larger
in area than the mother-country, and include Algeria, Madagascar, and
Cochin China. The French are a people of keen intelligence, of bright,
impulsive, and vivacious nature; urbane, cultured, and pleasure-loving in
the cities, thrifty and industrious in the country; few races have given
so rich a bequest to the literature and art of the world. Roman
Catholicism is the dominant form of religion, but Protestantism and the
Jewish religion are also State supported, as also Mohammedanism in
Algiers. Free compulsory education is in vogue. The Government is a
Republic, and there are two chambers&amp;mdash;a Senate and a Chamber of Deputies.
Originally occupied by Celts, the country, then called Gallia, was
conquered by the Romans between 58 and 51 B.C., who occupied it till the
4th century, when it was overrun by the Teutons, including the Franks,
who became dominant; and about 870 the country, under Charles the Bald,
became known as France. The unsettling effects of the great cataclysm of
1789 have been apparent in the series of political changes which have
swept across the country this century; within that time it has been
thrice a monarchy, thrice an empire, and thrice a republic.

{{anchor|Francesca, Pistro della}}'''Francesca, Pistro della''', an Italian painter, sometimes called Piero
Borghese after his native place; did fresco-work in Florence and at
Loretto; painted pictures for the Duke of Rimini, notably &amp;ldquo;The
Flagellation&amp;rdquo;; was a friend of Raphael's father; some of his pictures are
in the London National Gallery (1420-1492).

{{anchor|Francesca da Rimini}}'''Francesca da Rimini''', a beautiful Italian lady of the 13th century,
whose pathetic love story finds a place in Dante's &amp;ldquo;Inferno&amp;rdquo;; she was
betrothed by her father, the Lord of Ravenna, to Giovanni of Rimini, but
her affections were engaged by Paolo, his brother; the lovers were found
together by Giovanni and murdered by him.

{{anchor|Francesco di Paula}}'''Francesco di Paula''' or '''St. Francis of Paola''', founder of the
order of the Minims, born at Paula, in Calabria; was trained in a
Franciscan convent, but at the age of 19 took up his abode in a cave,
where the severe purity and piety of his life attracted to him many
disciples; subsequently he founded an ascetic brotherhood, first called
the Hermits of St. Francis of Assisi, but afterwards changed to
Minim-Hermits of St. Francis of Paola; he eventually lived in France,
where convents were built for him and his brotherhood under royal
patronage (1416-1507).

{{anchor|Franche-Comté}}'''Franche-Comté''', an ancient province in the E. of France, added to the
crown of France in the reign of Louis XIV. at the peace of Nimeguen in
1671.

{{anchor|Francia, Dr. José Gaspar Rodriguez da}}'''Francia, Dr. José Gaspar Rodriguez da''', dictator of Paraguay, born
near Asun&amp;ccedil;ion, in Paraguay; graduated as a doctor of theology, but
subsequently took to law, in the practice of which profession he was
engaged for 30 years, and won a high reputation for ability and
undeviating honesty; in the revolutionary uprising which spread
throughout Spanish South America, Paraguay played a conspicuous part, and
when in 1811 she declared her independence, Francia was elected secretary
of the first national junta, and two years later one of two consuls;
eventually, in 1814, he became dictator, a position he held till his
death; he ruled the country with a strong hand and with scrupulous, if
somewhat rough, justice, making it part of his policy to allow no
intercourse, political or commercial, with other countries; the country
flourished under his rule, but fell into disorder after his death; he is
the subject of a well-known essay by Carlyle, who finds him a man very
much after his own heart (1757-1840).

{{anchor|Francis, St., of Assisi}}'''Francis, St., of Assisi''', founder of the Franciscan order, born at
Assisi, in Umbria; began life as a soldier, but during a serious illness
his thoughts were turned from earth to heaven, and he devoted himself to
a life of poverty and self-denial, with the result that his enthusiasm
provoked emulation, and some of his neighbours associated with him and
formed a brotherhood, which gave rise to the order; St. Dominic and he
were contemporaries, &amp;ldquo;the former teaching Christian men how to behave,
and the latter what they should think&amp;rdquo;; each sent a little company of
disciples to teach and preach in Florence, where their influence soon
made itself felt, St. Francis in 1212 and St. Dominic in 1220.

{{anchor|Francis, St., of Sales}}'''Francis, St., of Sales''', bishop of Geneva, born In the château of
Sales, near Amiens, founder of the Order of the Visitation; was sent to
persuade the Calvinists of Geneva back to the Church of Rome, and applied
himself zealously to the reform of his diocese and the monasteries
(1567-1622).

{{anchor|Francis Joseph}}'''Francis Joseph''', emperor of Austria and king of Hungary; succeeded to
the throne in 1848 on the abdication of his uncle, Ferdinand I.; the
Hungarian difficulty has been the chief problem of his reign, with which
he at first dealt in a spirit of harsh oppression, but since 1866 a
milder policy has been adopted, and the desire for national autonomy was
met by the creation of a dual monarchy in 1867, Francis being crowned
king of Hungary; other important events have been the cession of Lombardy
to Sardinia in 1859 and of Venetia in 1866, after an unsuccessful war
with Prussia; ''b''. 1830.

{{anchor|Franciscans}}'''Franciscans''', or '''Minorites''', an order of monks founded by St.
Francis of Assisi in 1208; according to Ruskin, they were the order that
preached with St James the gospel of Works as distinct from the
Dominicans, who preached with St. Paul the gospel of Faith, and their
gospel required three things: &amp;ldquo;to work without money and be poor, to work
without pleasure and be chaste, and to work according to orders and be
obedient&amp;rdquo;; these were the rules they were sworn to obey at first, but
they gradually forsook the austerity they enjoined, acquired great
wealth, instituted a highly sensuous ceremonial, and became invested with
privileges which excited the jealousy of the regular clergy; with the
order were associated a number of men eminent in the Church, and many no
less so in philosophy, literature, and art.

{{anchor|Franck, Sebastian}}'''Franck, Sebastian''', early German writer, born at Donauwörth; from a
Catholic priest became a Protestant, but fell into disfavour for
promulgating the doctrine that regeneration of life is of more importance
than reform of dogma, and in 1531 was banished from Strasburg;
subsequently he became a soap-boiler and eventually a printer; his most
noted work is his &amp;ldquo;Chronica,&amp;rdquo; a rough attempt&amp;mdash;the first in Germany&amp;mdash;at a
general history (1499-1542).

{{anchor|Francke, August Hermann}}'''Francke, August Hermann''', a German religious philanthropist, born at
Lübeck; was professor of Oriental Languages and subsequently of Theology
at Halle; he founded various educational institutions and a large
orphanage, all of which still exist and afford education for some 3000
children annually; he was active in promoting [[../P#Pietists|Pietism]], ''q. v''.
(1663-1727).

{{anchor|Franconia}}'''Franconia''', the name formerly applied to a loosely defined district
in Central Germany, which, as the home of the Franks, was regarded as the
heart of the Holy Roman Empire; the emperors long continued to be crowned
within its boundaries; subsequently it was divided into two duchies, East
Franconia and Rhenish Franconia; the latter was abolished in 1501 and the
former much diminished; from 1806 to 1837 the name had no official
existence, but in 1837 the names Upper, Middle, and Lower Franconia were
given to the three northern divisions of Bavaria.

{{anchor|Franc-Tireurs}}'''Franc-Tireurs''' (''i. e''. free-shooters), French volunteers, chiefly
peasants, who carried on a guerilla warfare against the Germans in the
Franco-German War; were at first denied the status of regular soldiers by
the Germans and mercilessly shot when captured, but subsequently, having
joined in the movements of the regular army, they were when captured
treated as prisoners of war.

{{anchor|Frankenstein}}'''Frankenstein''', a monster of romance created without a soul, yet not
without craving for human sympathy, who found existence on these terms a
curse, as a man with high cravings might find science to be without God.

{{anchor|Frankfort-on-the-Main}}'''Frankfort-on-the-Main''' (180), one of the old free cities of Germany,
a centre of importance under the Kaisers and the seat of the Diet of the
Germanic Confederation, and one of the great banking cities of the world;
it is the birthplace of the poet Goethe, and is associated with his early
history.

{{anchor|Frankfort-on-the-Oder}}'''Frankfort-on-the-Oder''' (56), a town of Prussia, in the province of
Brandenburg, 51 m. SE. of Berlin, is a well-built town; has a university
incorporated with Breslau in 1811, and is actively engaged in the
manufacture of machinery, chemicals, paper, &amp;amp;c.

{{anchor|Frankland, Sir Edward}}'''Frankland, Sir Edward''', an eminent chemist, born at Churchtown,
Lancashire; has held successively the chairs of Chemistry in Owens
College, in Bartholomew's Hospital, in the Royal Institution, in the
Royal College of Chemistry, and in the Normal School of Science, South
Kensington, the latter of which he resigned in 1885; has published
various works, and was engaged with Lockyer in researches on the
atmosphere of the sun; ''b''. 1825.

{{anchor|Franklin, Benjamin}}'''Franklin, Benjamin''', born in Boston, was the youngest son of a
tallow-chandler and one of a family of 17; received a meagre education,
and at the age of 12 became apprenticed to his brother, a printer and
proprietor of a small newspaper, to whose columns he began to contribute;
but subsequently quarrelling with him made his way almost penniless to
Philadelphia, where he worked as a printer; in 1724 he came to England
under promises of assistance, which were not fulfilled, and for 18 months
laboured at his printing trade in London, when he returned to
Philadelphia, and there, by steady industry, won a secure position as a
printer and proprietor of the ''Pennsylvania Gazette''; in 1732 began to
appear his ''Poor Richard's Almanac'', which, with its famous maxims of
prudential philosophy, had a phenomenal success; four years later he
entered upon a public career, rising through various offices to the
position of Deputy Postmaster-General for the Colonies, and sitting in
the Assembly; carried through important political missions to England in
1757 and 1764, and was prominent in the deliberations which ended in the
declaration of American independence in 1776; he visited France and
helped to bring about the French alliance, and made an unavailing effort
to bring in Canada, and, as American minister, signed the Treaty of
Independence in 1783; was subsequently minister to France, and was twice
unanimously elected President of Pennsylvania; his name is also
associated with discoveries in natural science, notably the discovery of
the identity of electricity and lightning, which he achieved by means of
a kite; received degrees from Oxford and Edinburgh Universities, and was
elected an F.R.S.; in 1730 he married Deborah Reid, by whom he had two
children (1706-1790).

{{anchor|Franklin, Sir John}}'''Franklin, Sir John''', a famous Arctic explorer, born at Spilsby,
Lincolnshire; entered the navy in 1800; was a midshipman; was present at
the battle of Copenhagen; shortly afterwards accompanied an expedition,
under Captain Minders, to explore and survey the coasts of Australia; was
wrecked, and returned home on board the ''Camden'' as a signal-midshipman;
he subsequently distinguished himself at the battle of Trafalgar, and
took part in the attack on New Orleans; in 1818 he was second in command
of an expedition sent out under Captain Buchan to discover a North-West
Passage, which, although unsuccessful, contributed to reveal Franklin's
admirable qualities as a leader, and in 1819 he was chosen to head
another Arctic expedition, which, after exploring the Saskatchewan and
Copper-Mine Rivers and adjacent territory, returned in 1822; Franklin was
created a post-captain, and for services in a further expedition in
search of a North-West Passage was, in 1829, knighted; after further
services he was in 1845 put in command of an expedition, consisting of
the ''Erebus'' and ''Terror'', for the discovery of the North-West Passage;
the expedition never returned, and for many years a painful interest was
manifested in the various expeditions (17 in all) which were sent out to
search for the lost party; many relics of this unfortunate explorer were
found, demonstrating the discovery of the North-West Passage; but the
story of his fate has never been precisely ascertained (1786-1847).

{{anchor|Franks}}'''Franks''', the name given in the 3rd century to a confederation of
Germanic tribes, who subsequently grouped themselves into two main bodies
called the Salians and the Ripuarians, the former dwelling on the Upper
Rhine, and the latter on the Middle Rhine. Under their king, Clovis, the
Salians overran Central Gaul, subjugating the Ripuarians, and extending
their territory from the Scheldt to the Loire, whence in course of time
there generally developed the kingdom of France. The Franks were of a
tall and martial bearing, and thoroughly democratic in their political
instincts.

{{anchor|Franz, Robert}}'''Franz, Robert''', musical composer, born at Halle; his first songs
appeared in 1843, and were cordially appreciated by Mendelssohn and other
masters; in 1868 ill-health forced him to resign his musical appointments
in Halle, but by the efforts of Liszt, Joachim, and others, funds were
raised by means of concerts to ensure him a competence for life; he
published upwards of 250 songs (1815-1892).

{{anchor|Franzensbad}}'''Franzensbad''' or '''Franzensbrunn''' (2), a watering-place on the NW.
frontier of Bohemia, 3 m. NW. of Eger; is 1460 ft. above sea-level,
amidst a mountainous country; is much frequented by invalids for its
mineral springs.

{{anchor|Franz-Josef Land}}'''Franz-Josef Land''', an archipelago in the Arctic Ocean, N. of Nova
Zembla; was discovered and partly explored in 1873-74 by Payer and
Weyprecht; consists of two main divisions, Wilczek Land to the E., and
Zichy Land to the W., between which runs Austria Sound. Arctic animals
are found in good numbers. It is considered an excellent base for
expeditions in quest of the North Pole.

{{anchor|Fraser, Alexander Campbell}}'''Fraser, Alexander Campbell''', philosopher, born at Ardchattan,
Argyllshire; after a university training at Edinburgh and Glasgow he
entered the Free Church; was for a brief term Free Church minister of
Cramond, from which he was transferred to a chair in the Free Church
College, but in 1856 succeeded Sir William Hamilton as professor of Logic
and Metaphysics at Edinburgh, a position he held till 1891, when he
resigned; his writings include the standard edition of Berkeley, with
notes and a life, monographs on Locke and Berkeley in the series of
&amp;ldquo;Philosophical Classics,&amp;rdquo; and two vols. on the &amp;ldquo;Philosophy of Theism,&amp;rdquo;
being the Gifford Lectures delivered 1895-96; ''b''. 1819.

{{anchor|Fraser, James}}'''Fraser, James''', bishop of Manchester, born near Cheltenham, became a
Fellow of Oriel after graduating with highest honours, and in 1847 was
appointed to a college living; he issued in 1862-1864 valuable reports on
education in Canada and the United States after visiting these countries;
and in 1870 was appointed bishop by Mr. Gladstone; his strong sense and
wide sympathy and interest in the labour questions won him universal
respect (1818-1885).

{{anchor|Fraser River}}'''Fraser River''', the chief river of British Columbia, is formed by the
junction near Fort George of two streams, one rising in the Rockies, the
other flowing out of the Lakes Stuart and Fraser; it discharges into the
Georgian Gulf, 800 m. below Fort George. Rich deposits of gold are found
in the lower basin, and an active industry in salmon-catching and canning
is carried on.

{{anchor|Fraticelli}}'''Fraticelli''' (''i. e''. Little Brethren), a religious sect which arose
in Italy in the 13th century, and continued to exist until the close of
the 15th. They were an offshoot from the [[../F#Franciscans|Franciscans]] (''q. v''.),
who sought in their lives to enforce more rigidly the laws of St.
Francis, and declined to accept the pontifical explanations of monastic
rules; ultimately they broke away from the authority of the Church, and
despite the efforts of various popes to reconcile them, and the bitter
persecutions of others, maintained a separate organisation, going the
length of appointing their own cardinals and pope, having declared the
Church in a state of apostasy. Their régime of life was of the severest
nature; they begged from door to door their daily food, and went clothed
in rags.

{{anchor|Fraunhofer, Joseph von}}'''Fraunhofer, Joseph von''', German optician, born in Straubing, Bavaria;
after serving an apprenticeship as a glass-cutter in Münich, he rose to
be manager of an optical institute there, and eventually attained to the
position of professor in the Academy of Sciences; his name is associated
with many discoveries in optical science as well as inventions and
improvements in the optician's art; but he is chiefly remembered for his
discovery of the dark lines in the solar spectrum, since called after him
the Fraunhofer lines (1787-1826).

{{anchor|Fredegonda}}'''Fredegonda''', wife of Chilpéric I. of Neustria; a woman of low birth,
but of great beauty and insatiable ambition, who scrupled at no crime to
attain her end; made away with Galswintha, Chilpéric's second wife, and
superseded her on the throne; slew Siegbert, who had been sent to avenge
Galswintha's death, and imprisoned Brunhilda, her sister, of Austrasia,
and finally assassinated her husband and governed Neustria in the name of
her son, Clotaire II. (543-597).

{{anchor|Frederick I.}}'''Frederick I.''', surnamed Barbarossa (Red-beard), of the house of
Swabia, emperor of the [[../E#Empires|Holy Roman Empire]] (''q. v''.) from 1152 till
1190; &amp;ldquo;a magnificent, magnanimous man, the greatest of all the Kaisers&amp;rdquo;;
his reign is the most brilliant in the annals of the empire, and he
himself among the most honoured of German heroes; his vast empire he
ruled with iron rigour, quelling its rival factions and extending his
sovereign rights to Poland, Hungary, Denmark, and Burgundy; the great
struggle of his reign, however, was with Pope Alexander III. and the
Lombard cities, whose right to independence he acknowledged by the treaty
of Constanz (1183); he &amp;ldquo;died some unknown sudden death&amp;rdquo; at 70 in the
crusade against Saladin and the Moslem power; his lifelong ambition was
to secure the independence of the empire, and to subdue the States of
Italy to the imperial sway (1123-1190).

{{anchor|Frederick II.}}'''Frederick II.''', called the Wonder of the World, grandson of the
preceding; he was crowned emperor in 1215, at Aix-la-Chapelle, having
driven Otto IV. from the throne; he gave much attention to the
consolidating of his Italian possessions, encouraged learning and art,
founded the university of Naples, and had the laws carefully codified; in
these attempts at harmonising the various elements of his empire he was
opposed by the Papal power and the Lombards; in 1228 he gained possession
of Jerusalem, of which he crowned himself king; his later years were
spent in struggles with the Papal and Lombard powers, and darkened by the
treachery of his son Henry and of an intimate friend; he was a man of
outstanding intellectual force and learning, but lacked the moral
greatness of his grandfather (1194-1250).

{{anchor|Frederick III.}}'''Frederick III.''', emperor of Germany, born at Potsdam; bred for the
army; rose to command; did signal service at Königgratz in 1860, and
again in 1870 in the Franco-German War; married the Princess Royal of
England; succeeded his father, but fell a victim to a serious throat
malady after a reign of only 101 days, June 18 (1831-1888).

{{anchor|Frederick V.}}'''Frederick V.''', Electoral Prince Palatine; succeeded to the Palatinate
in 1610, and three years later married Elizabeth, daughter of James I. of
England; an attempt to head the Protestant union of Germany and his
usurpation of the crown of Bohemia brought about his ruin and expulsion
from the Palatinate in 1620 by the Spaniards and Bavarians; he took
refuge in Holland, but two years later his principality was given to
Bavaria by the emperor (1596-1632).

{{anchor|Frederick III.}}'''Frederick III.''', of Denmark, succeeded to the throne in 1648; during
his reign the arrogance and oppression of the nobles drove the commons,
headed by the clergy, to seek redress of the king by proclaiming the
constitution a hereditary and absolute monarchy (1609-1670).

{{anchor|Frederick V.}}'''Frederick V.''', of Denmark, ascended the throne in 1746; during his
reign Denmark made great progress, manufactures were established,
commerce extended, while science and the fine arts were liberally
patronised (1723-1766).

{{anchor|Frederick VI.}}'''Frederick VI.''', of Denmark, became regent in 1784 during the insanity
of his father, who died in 1808; his reign is noted for the abolishment
of feudal serfdom and the prohibition of the slave-trade in Danish
colonies, and the granting of a liberal constitution in 1831; while his
participation in the maritime confederation between Russia, Sweden, and
Prussia led to the destruction of the Danish fleet off Copenhagen in 1800
by the British, and his sympathy and alliance with Napoleon brought about
the bombardment of Copenhagen in 1807, and the cession of Norway to
Sweden in 1814 (1768-1839).

{{anchor|Frederick I.}}'''Frederick I.''', first king of Prussia, third elector of Brandenburg,
and son of the Great Elector Frederick-William, whom as elector he
succeeded in 1688; he extended his territory by purchase; supported
William of Orange in his English expedition, and lent assistance to the
Grand Alliance against France, for which he received the title of king of
Prussia, being crowned such in Königsberg in 1701; he was &amp;ldquo;an expensive
Herr, and much given to magnificent ceremonies, etiquettes, and
solemnities&amp;rdquo; (1657-1713).

{{anchor|Frederick II.}}'''Frederick II.''', king of Prussia from 1740 to 1786, surnamed &amp;ldquo;The
Great,&amp;rdquo; grandson of the preceding, and nephew of George I. of England,
born at Berlin; the irksome restraints of his early military education
induced him to make an attempt, which failed, to escape to England, an
episode which incensed his father, and nearly brought him to the
scaffold; after his marriage in 1733 he resided at Rheinsburg, indulging
his taste for music and French literature, and corresponding with
Voltaire; he came to the throne with the ambition of extending and
consolidating his power; from Austria, after two wars (1740-1744), he
wrested Silesia, and again in the Seven Years' War (1756-1763), and in
1778 by force of arms acquired the duchy of Franconia; as administrator
he was eminently efficient, the country flourished under his just, if
severe, rule; his many wars imposed no debt on the nation; national
industries were fostered, and religious toleration encouraged; he was not
so successful in his literary attempts as his military, and all he wrote
was in French, the spirit of it as well as the letter; he is accounted
the creator of the Prussian monarchy &amp;ldquo;the first,&amp;rdquo; says Carlyle, &amp;ldquo;who, in
a highly public manner, announced its creation; announced to all men that
it was, in very deed, created; standing on its own feet there, and would
go a great way on the impulse it got from him and others&amp;rdquo; (1712-1786).

{{anchor|Frederick Charles, Prince}}'''Frederick Charles, Prince''', nephew of William I. of Germany; bred for
the army; distinguished himself in the wars against Denmark and Austria,
and in the Franco-German War (1828-1885).

{{anchor|Frederick-William I.}}'''Frederick-William I.''', king of Prussia, born at Berlin, ascended the
throne in 1713; in 1720, at the peace of Stockholm, he received part of
Pomerania with Stettin for espousing the cause of Denmark in her war with
Russia and Poland against Sweden; the rest of his reign was passed in
improving the internal conditions of his country and her military
resources; in praise of him as a sternly genuine man and king, Carlyle
has much to say in the early volumes of his &amp;ldquo;Frederick&amp;rdquo;; &amp;ldquo;No Baresark of
them&amp;rdquo; (&amp;ldquo;the primeval sons of Thor&amp;rdquo;), among whom he ranks him, &amp;ldquo;no
Baresark of them, not Odin's self, I think, was a bit of truer human
stuff; his value to me in these times, rare and great&amp;rdquo; (1688-1740).

{{anchor|Frederick-William II.}}'''Frederick-William II.''', king of Prussia, nephew of
[[../F#Frederick II.|Frederick the Great]] (''q. v''.); succeeded to the throne in 1786, but soon lost
favour by indolence and favouritism; in 1788 the freedom of the press was
withdrawn, and religious freedom curtailed; he involved himself in a weak
and vacillating foreign policy, wasting the funds accumulated by his
uncle in a useless war with Holland; at the partition of Poland in 1793
and 1795 various districts were added to the kingdom (1744-1797).

{{anchor|Frederick-William III.}}'''Frederick-William III.''', king of Prussia from 1797 till 1840; incited
by the queen and the commons he abandoned his position of neutrality
towards Napoleon and declared war in 1806; defeat followed at Jena and in
other battles, and by the treaty of Tilsit (1807) Prussia was deprived of
half her possessions; under the able administration of Stein the country
began to recover itself, and a war for freedom succeeded in breaking the
power of France at the victory of Leipzig (1813), and at the treaty of
Vienna (1815) her lost territory was restored; his remaining years were
spent in consolidating and developing his dominions, but his policy was
sometimes reactionary in its effects (1770-1840).

{{anchor|Frederick-William IV.}}'''Frederick-William IV.''', king of Prussia from 1840 till 1861; his
reign is marked by the persistent demands of the people for a
constitutional form of government, which was finally granted in 1850; a
year previous he had declined the imperial crown offered by the Frankfort
Diet; in 1857 he became insane, and his brother was appointed regent
(1795-1861).

{{anchor|Frederikshald}}'''Frederikshald''', a fortified seaport of Norway, 65 m. SE. of
Christiania; was burnt in 1826, but handsomely restored in modern style;
timber is the main trade; in the immediate neighbourhood is the
impregnable fortress of Frederiksteen, associated with the death of
Charles XII. of Sweden, who fell fighting in the trenches before its
walls in 1718.

{{anchor|Free Church of Scotland}}'''Free Church of Scotland''', an ecclesiastical body formed by those who
left the Established Church in 1843 on the ground that they were not free
in their connection with the State to enforce certain obligations which
they considered lay on them as a Church of Christ, to whom, and not to
the State, they held themselves as a Church subject.

{{anchor|Free Cities of Germany}}'''Free Cities of Germany''', were cities which enjoyed sovereign rights
within their own walls, independent representation in the Diet, and owned
allegiance solely to the emperor. Their internal government was sometimes
democratic, sometimes the opposite. Their peculiar privileges were
obtained either by force of arms, by purchase, or by gift of the
emperors, who found in them a convenient means of checking the power of
their feudal lords. Most of them lost their privileges in 1803, and since
1866 only Lübeck, Bremen, and Hamburg remain in the category of free
cities.

{{anchor|Free Port}}'''Free Port''', name given to a port at which ships of all nations may
discharge or load cargo without payment of customs or other duties, save
harbour dues. They were created in various Continental countries during
the Middle Ages for the purpose of stimulating trade, but Copenhagen and,
in a restricted sense, Hamburg and Bremen are now the only free ports in
Europe. The system of bonded warehousing has superseded them.

{{anchor|Free Soilers}}'''Free Soilers''', a political party which arose in the United States in
1848 to oppose slave-extension. In 1856 their principles were adopted,
and the party absorbed in the newly-formed Republican party.

{{anchor|Free Trade}}'''Free Trade''', the name given to the commercial policy of England,
first elaborately set forth with cogent reasoning by Adam Smith in his
&amp;ldquo;Wealth of Nations,&amp;rdquo; and of which the repeal of the Corn Laws in 1846 was
the first step towards its adoption. Strictly used, the term is
applicable only to international or foreign trade, and signifies a policy
of strict non-intervention in the free competition of foreign goods with
home goods in the home markets. Differential duties, artificial
encouragements (''e. g''. bounties, drawbacks), to the home producer, all
of which are characteristic of a protective system of trading, are
withheld, the belief being entertained by free-traders that the
industrial interests of a country are best served by permitting the
capital to flow into those channels of trade into which the character and
resources of the country naturally dispose it to do, and also by bringing
the consumer as near as possible to the cheapest producer. But it is not
considered a violation of the Free Trade principles to impose a duty for
revenue purposes on such imported articles as have no home competitor,
''e. g''. tea.

{{anchor|Freeman, Edward Augustus}}'''Freeman, Edward Augustus''', historian, born at Mitchley Abbey,
Staffordshire; was a Fellow of Trinity College, Oxford; examiner in the
School of Law and Modern History; in 1884 he was elected Regius Professor
of Modern History at Oxford; most of his life was spent in country
retirement at Somerleaze, varied by Continental travel; he is the author
of many scholarly works ranging over the whole field of history, his
fame, however, mainly resting on his great &amp;ldquo;History of the Norman
Conquest&amp;rdquo; (1823-1892).

{{anchor|Freemasonry}}'''Freemasonry''', in modern times is the name given to a world-wide
institution of the nature of a friendly benevolent society, having for
its objects the promotion of social intercourse amongst its members, and,
in its own language, &amp;ldquo;the practice of moral and social virtue,&amp;rdquo; the
exercise of charity being particularly commended. By a peculiar grip of
the hand and certain passwords members are enabled to recognise each
other, and the existence of masonic lodges in all countries enables the
freemason to find friendly intercourse and assistance wherever he goes.
Its origin is found in the masonic brotherhoods of the Middle Ages, and
some of the names, forms, and symbols of these old craft guilds are still
preserved. In an age when great cathedrals and monasteries were rapidly
springing up masons were in great demand, and had to travel from place to
place, hence signs were adopted by which true masons might be known
amongst each other and assisted. The idea of utilising this secret method
of recognition for general, social, and charitable purposes, without
reference to the mason's craft, seems to have originated in the Edinburgh
Lodge, where, in 1600, speculative or theoretical masons were admitted.
In its present form of organisation it dates back to 1813, when the
&amp;ldquo;United Grand Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons of England&amp;rdquo; was
formed, and of which, since 1874, the Prince of Wales has been
Grand-Master, and which has nearly 2000 local lodges under its
protection.

{{anchor|Freeport, Sir Andrew}}'''Freeport, Sir Andrew''', a London merchant; a member of the imaginary
club under whose auspices the ''Spectator'' was issued.

{{anchor|Freiberg}}'''Freiberg''' (29), in the centre of the Saxon mining district, 20 m. SW.
of Dresden; is an old town, which arose upon the discovery of its silver
mines in 1163. It has a fine old cathedral, and a famous school of mines;
and the manufactures comprise gold and silver work, wire, chemicals, etc.

{{anchor|Freiburg}}'''Freiburg''', 1, a Swiss canton (119) between Bern and Vaud, and having
three esclaves in the latter; the population consists chiefly of French
Catholics; is hilly; dairy-farming, watchmaking, and straw-plaiting are
the chief industries. 2, Capital (12) of the canton, is situated on the
Saane, 19 m. SW. of Bern; the river is spanned by a suspension bridge,
and there is an old Gothic cathedral with one of the finest-toned organs
in Europe.

{{anchor|Freiburg}}'''Freiburg''' (49), in Breisgau, an important town in Baden, at the W.
side of the Black Forest, and 32 m. NE. of Basel; has a Gothic cathedral
famous for its architectural beauty, a university with 87 professors and
teachers and 884 students; has important manufactures in silk, cotton,
thread, paper, etc.; is the seat of a Catholic archbishop, and is
associated with many stirring events in German history.

{{anchor|Freiligrath, Ferdinand}}'''Freiligrath, Ferdinand''', a popular German poet, born at Detmold; was
engaged in commerce in his early years, but the success of a small
collection of poems in 1838 induced him to adopt a literary career;
subsequently his democratic principles, expressed in stirring verse,
involved him in trouble, and in 1846 he became a refugee in London; he
was permitted to return in 1848, and shortly afterwards was the
successful defendant in a celebrated trial for the publication of his
poem &amp;ldquo;The Dead to the Living,&amp;rdquo; after which fresh prosecution drove him to
London in 1851, where, till his return in 1868, he engaged in poetical
work, translating Burns, Shakespeare, and other English poets
(1810-1876).

{{anchor|Freischütz}}'''Freischütz''' (''i. e''. Freeshooter), a legendary hunter who made a
compact with the devil whereby of seven balls six should infallibly hit
the mark, and the seventh be under the direction of the devil, a legend
which was rife among the troopers in the 13th and 14th centuries, and has
given name to one of Weber's operas.

{{anchor|Frémont, John Charles}}'''Frémont, John Charles''', an American explorer, born at Savannah,
Georgia; at first a teacher of mathematics in the navy, subsequently took
to civil-engineering and surveying; in 1843 explored the South Pass of
the Rockies, and proved the practicability of an overland route; explored
the Great Salt Lake, the watershed between the Mississippi and Pacific,
and the upper reaches of the Rio Grande; he rendered valuable services in
the Mexican War, but was deprived of his captaincy for disobedience;
after unsuccessfully standing for the Presidency in the anti-slavery
interest, he again served in the army as major-general; a scheme for a
southern railway to the Pacific brought him into trouble with the French
government in 1873, when he was tried and condemned for fraud, unjustly
it would seem; from 1878 to 1882 he was governor of Arizona; he was the
recipient of distinctions from various geographical societies
(1813-1890).

{{anchor|French Philosophism}}'''French Philosophism''', an analysis of things conducted on the
presumption that scientific knowledge is the key to unlock the mystery
and resolve the riddle of the universe.

{{anchor|French Revolution}}'''French Revolution''', according to Carlyle &amp;ldquo;the open violent revolt,
and victory, of disimprisoned Anarchy against corrupt, worn-out
Authority, the crowning Phenomenon of our Modern Time,&amp;rdquo; but for which, he
once protested to Mr. Froude, he would not have known what to make of
this world at all; it was a sign to him that the God of judgment still
sat sovereign at the heart of it.

{{anchor|Frere, Sir Henry Bartle Edward}}'''Frere, Sir Henry Bartle Edward''', a distinguished diplomatist and
colonial governor, born near Abergavenny; entering the East India Company
in 1834, he rendered important services as administrator in Mahratta and
as Resident in Sattara in 1847; as the chief-commissioner in Sind he did
much to open up the country by means of canals, roads, etc.; during the
Mutiny, which arrested these works of improvement, he distinguished
himself by the prompt manner in which he suppressed the rising in his own
province; from 1862 to 1867 he was governor of Bombay; in 1867 was
knighted, and five years later carried through important diplomatic work
in Zanzibar, signing the treaty abolishing the slave-trade; his last
appointment was as governor of the Cape and High-Commissioner for the
settlement of South African affairs; the Kaffir and Zulu Wars involved
him in trouble, and in 1880 he was recalled, having effected little
(1815-1884).

{{anchor|Frere, John Hookham}}'''Frere, John Hookham''', English politician and author, born in London,
uncle of the preceding; he was a staunch supporter of Pitt, and in 1799
became Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs; a year later he was envoy to
Lisbon, and subsequently minister to Spain; in 1821 he retired to Malta,
where he devoted himself to scholarly pursuits, twice declining a
peerage; in his early days he was a contributor to the ''Anti-Jacobin'',
and shares with his school-fellow Canning the authorship of the &amp;ldquo;Needy
Knife-Grinder&amp;rdquo;; but he is best known by his fine translations of some of
Aristophanes' plays (1769-1841).

{{anchor|Fresco}}'''Fresco''', the art of painting on walls freshly laid with plaster, or
which have been damped so as to permit of the colour sinking into the
lime; there were two methods, the ''fresco secco'' and the ''fresco buon'';
in the first the wall was sprinkled with water, and the colours were then
worked into the damp surface; in the second process, in which finer and
more permanent effects were obtained, the artist worked upon the fresh
plaster of the wall (which is laid for him as he proceeds), pouncing or
tracing his designs with a stylus; only colours which are natural earths
can be employed, as they require to be mixed with lime ere being applied,
and are subject to the destroying effect of that substance; as a method
of mural decoration it was known to the ancients, and some of the finest
specimens are to be seen in the Italian cathedrals of the 14th and 15th
centuries; the art is still in vogue, but can only be practised
successfully in a dry climate.

{{anchor|Fresnel, Augustin Jean}}'''Fresnel, Augustin Jean''', French physicist, born at Broglie, Eure; as
an engineer he rose to be head of the Department of Public Works at
Paris; in 1825 he was elected an F.R.S. of London; he made discoveries
in optical science which helped to confirm the undulatory theory of
light, also invented a compound lighthouse lens (1783-1827).

{{anchor|Fresno}}'''Fresno''' (11), a town in California, on the Southern Pacific Railway,
207 m. SE. of San Francisco; the surrounding district, extensively
irrigated, produces abundance of fruit, and raisins and wine are largely
exported.

{{anchor|Freund, Wilhelm}}'''Freund, Wilhelm''', German philologist, born at Kempen, in Posen;
studied education at Berlin and Breslau, and was chiefly occupied in
teaching till 1870, when he retired in order to devote himself to his
literary pursuits; besides classical school-books and some works on
philology, he compiled an elaborate Latin dictionary in 4 vols., which
has been the basis of the standard English-Latin dictionaries since; ''b''.
1806.

{{anchor|Freyr}}'''Freyr''', figures in the Scandinavian mythology as the god who rules
the rain and sunshine, and whose gifts were peace, wealth, and abundant
harvests; the wooing of Gerda, daughter of the giant Gymer, by Freyr is
one of the most beautiful stories in the northern mythology; his festival
was celebrated at Christmas, and his first temple was built at Upsala by
the Swedes, who especially honoured him.

{{anchor|Freytag, Gustav}}'''Freytag, Gustav''', an eminent German novelist and dramatist, born at
Kreuzburg, Silesia; from 1839 was teacher of German language and
literature at Breslau, and became editor of a journal, a position he held
till 1870; was a member of the North German Diet, and accompanied the
Crown Prince during the war of 1870-71; from 1879 resided at Wiesbaden;
his many novels and plays and poems, which reveal a powerful and
realistic genius, place him in the front rank of modern German
littérateurs; several of his novels have been translated into English,
amongst which his masterpiece, &amp;ldquo;Soll und Haben&amp;rdquo; (Debit and Credit)
(1816-1895).

{{anchor|Friar}}'''Friar''' (''i. e''. brother), a name applied generally to members of
religious brotherhoods, but which in its strict significance indicated an
order lower than that of priest, the latter being called &amp;ldquo;father,&amp;rdquo; while
they differed from monks in that they travelled about, whereas the monk
remained secluded in his monastery; in the 13th century arose the Grey
Friars or Franciscans, the Black Friars or Dominicans, the White Friars
or Carmelites, Augustinians or Austin Friars, and later the Crutched
Friars or Trinitarians.

{{anchor|Friar John}}'''Friar John''', a friar of Seville, in Rabelais' &amp;ldquo;Pantagruel,&amp;rdquo; notorious
for his irreverence in the discharge of his religious duties and for his
lewd, lusty ways.

{{anchor|Friar Tuck}}'''Friar Tuck''', Robin Hood's chaplain and steward, introduced by Scott
into &amp;ldquo;Ivanhoe&amp;rdquo; as a kind of clerical Falstaff.

{{anchor|Friday}}'''Friday''', the young savage, the attendant of Robinson Crusoe, so
called as discovered on a Friday.

{{anchor|Friday}}'''Friday''', the sixth day of the week, so called as consecrated to
Freyia or Frigga, the wife of Odin; is proverbially a day of ill luck;
held sacred among Catholics as the day of the crucifixion, and the
Mohammedan Sunday in commemoration as the day on which, as they believe,
Adam was created.

{{anchor|Friedland, Valentin}}'''Friedland, Valentin''', an eminent scholar and educationist, born in
Upper Lusatia; friend of Luther and Melanchthon; his fame as a teacher
attracted to Goldberg, in Silesia, where he taught, pupils from far and
near; the secret of his success lay in his inculcating on his pupils
respect for their own honour; had a great faith in the intelligence that
evinced itself in clear expression (1490-1556).

{{anchor|Friend of Man}}'''Friend of Man''', Marquis de Mirabeau, so called from the title of one
of his works, &amp;ldquo;L'Ami des Hommes.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Friendly Islands}}'''Friendly Islands''', islands of the S. Pacific, some 180 in number,
mostly of coral or volcanic origin, and of which 30 are inhabited; the
natives rank high among the South Sea islanders for intelligence. See
[[../T#Tonga Islands|Tonga Islands]].

{{anchor|Friendly Societies}}'''Friendly Societies''', associations of individuals for the purpose of
mutual benefit in sickness and distress, and of old and wide-spread
institution and under various names and forms.

{{anchor|Friends, Society of}}'''Friends, Society of''', a community of Christians popularly known as
Quakers, founded in 1648 by [[../G#Fox, George|George Fox]] (''q. v''.), distinguished
for their plainness of speech and manners, and differing from other sects
chiefly in the exclusive deference they pay to the &amp;ldquo;inner light,&amp;rdquo; and
their rejection of both clergy and sacrament as media of grace; they
refuse to take oath, are averse to war, and have always been opposed to
slavery.

{{anchor|Friends of the People}}'''Friends of the People''', an association formed as far back as 1792 to
secure by constitutional means parliamentary reform.

{{anchor|Fries, Elias}}'''Fries, Elias''', Swedish cryptogamic botanist, professor at Upsala;
wrote on fungi and lichens (1794-1878).

{{anchor|Fries, Jakob Friedrich}}'''Fries, Jakob Friedrich''', a German Kantian philosopher; was professor
at Jena; aimed at reconciling the Kantian philosophy with Faith, or the
intuitions of the Pure Reason (1773-1843).

{{anchor|Friesland}}'''Friesland''', the most northerly province of Holland, with a rich soil;
divided into East and West Friesland; low-lying and pastoral; protected
by dykes.

{{anchor|Frigga}}'''Frigga''', a Scandinavian goddess, the wife of Odin; worshipped among
the Saxons as a goddess mother; was the earth deified, or the Norse
Demeter.

{{anchor|Frisians}}'''Frisians''', a Low German people, who occupied originally the shores of
the North Sea from the mouths of the Rhine and Ems; distinguished for
their free institutions; tribes of them at one time invaded Britain,
where traces of their presence may still be noted.

{{anchor|Frith, William Powell}}'''Frith, William Powell''', an English painter, born near Ripon,
Yorkshire; his works are numerous, his subjects varied and interesting,
and his most popular pictures have brought large sums; ''b''. 1819.

{{anchor|Fritz, Father}}'''Fritz, Father''', name given to Frederick the Great by his subjects
&amp;ldquo;with a familiarity which did not breed contempt in his case.&amp;rdquo;

{{anchor|Frobisher, Sir Martin}}'''Frobisher, Sir Martin''', famous English sailor and navigator, born
near Doncaster; thrice over enthusiastically essayed the discovery of the
North-West Passage under Elizabeth; accompanied Drake to the West Indies;
was knighted for his services against the Armada; conducted several
expeditions against Spain; was mortally wounded when leading an attack on
Brest, and died on his passage home (1535-1594).

{{anchor|Froebel, Friedrich}}'''Froebel, Friedrich''', a devoted German educationist on the principles
of Pestalozzi, which combined physical, moral, and intellectual training,
commencing with the years of childhood; was the founder of the famous
''Kindergarten'' system (1782-1852).

{{anchor|Frogmore}}'''Frogmore''', a royal palace and mausoleum in Windsor Park, the
burial-place of Prince Albert.

{{anchor|Froissart, Jean}}'''Froissart, Jean''', a French chronicler and poet, born at Valenciennes;
visited England in the reign of Edward III., at whose Court, and
particularly with the Queen, he became a great favourite for his tales of
chivalry, and whence he was sent to Scotland to collect more materials
for his chronicles, where he became the guest of the king and the Earl of
Douglas; after this he wandered from place to place, ranging as far as
Venice and Rome, to add to his store; he died in Flanders, and his
chronicles, which extend from 1322 to 1400, are written without order,
but with grace and ''naïveté'' (1337-1410).

{{anchor|Fromentin, Eugène}}'''Fromentin, Eugène''', an eminent French painter and author, born at
Rochelle; was the author of two travel-sketches, and a brilliant novel
&amp;ldquo;Dominique&amp;rdquo; (1820-1876).

{{anchor|Fronde}}'''Fronde''', a name given to a revolt in France opposed to the Court of
Anne of Austria and Mazarin during the minority of Louis XIV. The war
which arose, and which was due to the despotism of Mazarin, passed
through two phases: it was first a war on the part of the people and the
parlement, called the Old Fronde, which lasted from 1648 till 1649, and
then a war on the part of the nobles, called the New Fronde, which lasted
till 1652, when the revolt was crushed by Turenne to the triumph of the
royal power. The name is derived from the mimic fights with slings in
which the boys of Paris indulged themselves, and which even went so far
as to beat back at times the civic guard sent to suppress them.

{{anchor|Froude, Hurrell}}'''Froude, Hurrell''', elder brother of the succeeding, a leader in the
Tractarian movement; author of Tracts IX. and LXIII. (1803-1836).

{{anchor|Froude, James Anthony}}'''Froude, James Anthony''', an English historian and man of letters, born
at Totnes, Devon; trained originally for the Church, he gave himself to
literature, his chief work being the &amp;ldquo;History of England from the Fall of
Wolsey to the Defeat of the Spanish Armada,&amp;rdquo; in 12 vols., of which the
first appeared in 1854 and the last in 1870, but it is with Carlyle and
his &amp;ldquo;Life of Carlyle&amp;rdquo; that his name has of late been most intimately
associated, and in connection with which he will ere long honourably
figure in the history of the literature of England, though he has other
claims to regard as the author of the &amp;ldquo;Nemesis of Faith,&amp;rdquo; &amp;ldquo;Short Studies
on Great Subjects,&amp;rdquo; a &amp;ldquo;Life of Cæsar,&amp;rdquo; a &amp;ldquo;Life of Bunyan,&amp;rdquo; &amp;ldquo;The English
in Ireland in the Eighteenth Century,&amp;rdquo; and &amp;ldquo;English Seamen in the
Sixteenth Century&amp;rdquo;; he ranks as one of the masters of English prose, and
as a man of penetration, insight, and enlarged views, if somewhat
careless about minor details (1818-1894).

{{anchor|Froude, William}}'''Froude, William''', another brother, a civil engineer, assistant to
Brunel; made important discoveries in hydro-dynamics of great practical
avail (1810-1879).

{{anchor|Fry, Mrs. Elizabeth}}'''Fry, Mrs. Elizabeth''', philanthropist, born at Norwich, third daughter
of John Gurney, the Quaker banker; married Joseph Fry of Plashet, Essex;
devoted her life to prison reform and the reform of criminals, as well as
other benevolent enterprises; she has been called &amp;ldquo;the female Howard&amp;rdquo;
(1780-1845).

{{anchor|Fuad-Mahmed, Pasha}}'''Fuad-Mahmed, Pasha''', a Turkish statesman, diplomatist, and man of
letters; studied medicine, but soon turned himself to politics; was much
esteemed and honoured at foreign courts, at which he represented Turkey,
for his skill, sagacity, and finesse; became Minister of Foreign Affairs
in 1852; was hostile to the pretensions of Russia, and gave umbrage to
the Czar; published a Turkish grammar, which is received with favour
(1814-1869).

{{anchor|Fudge Family, The}}'''Fudge Family, The''', a satiric piece by Thomas Moore, published in
1818.

{{anchor|Fuentes, Count}}'''Fuentes, Count''', a Spanish general and statesman, eminent both in war
and diplomacy; commanded the Spanish infantry at the siege of Rocroi when
he was eighty-two, borne on a litter in the midst of the fight, and
perished by the sword, the Great Condé having attacked the besiegers
(1560-1643).

{{anchor|Fuero-Fuego}}'''Fuero-Fuego''', a Wisigoth Spanish law of the 7th century, a curious
monument of the legislation of the Middle Ages.

{{anchor|Fugger}}'''Fugger''', the name of a family of Augsburg who rose from the loom by
way of commerce to great wealth and eminence in Germany, particularly
under the Emperors Maximilian and Charles V., the real founder of the
wealth being Jacob, who died 1409.

{{anchor|Fulham}}'''Fulham''', a suburb of London, on the Middlesex bank of the Thames,
opposite Putney, with the palace and burying-place of the bishops of
London.

{{anchor|Fullah}}'''Fullah''', a people of the Upper Soudan whose territory extends between
Senegal and Darfur, a race of superior physique and intelligence, and of
a certain polish of manners, and with Caucasian type of feature.

{{anchor|Fuller, Andrew}}'''[[Author:Andrew Fuller|Fuller, Andrew]]''', an eminent Baptist minister, born in Cambridgeshire,
was settled at Kettering, and a zealous controversialist in defence of
the gospel against hyper-Calvinism on the one hand and Socinianism on the
other, but he is chiefly distinguished in connection with the foundation
of the Baptist Missionary Society, to which he for most part devoted the
energies of his life (1754-1815).

{{anchor|Fuller, Margaret}}'''[[Author:Sarah Margaret Fuller|Fuller, Margaret]]''', an American authoress, born at Cambridgepont,
Mass., a woman of speculative ability and high aims, a friend of Emerson,
and much esteemed by Carlyle, though he thought her enthusiasm
extravagant and beyond the range of accomplishment; she was one of the
leaders of the transcendental movement in America; visited Europe, and
Italy in particular; engaged there in the struggle for political
independence; married the young Marquis of Ossoli; sailed for New York,
and was drowned with her husband and child on the sand-bars of Long
Island (1810-1850).

{{anchor|Fuller, Thomas}}'''[[Author:Thomas Fuller|Fuller, Thomas]]''', historian, divine, and wit, born in
Northamptonshire, son of the rector of Sarum; entering into holy orders,
he held in succession several benefices in the Church of England, and was
a prebend in Salisbury Cathedral; taking sides with the king, he lost
favour under the Commonwealth; wrote a number of works, in which one
finds combined gaiety and piety, good sense and whimsical fancy; composed
among other works the &amp;ldquo;History of the Holy War,&amp;rdquo; a &amp;ldquo;History of the
Crusades,&amp;rdquo; &amp;ldquo;The Holy and the Profane States,&amp;rdquo; the &amp;ldquo;Church History of
Great Britain,&amp;rdquo; and the &amp;ldquo;Worthies of England,&amp;rdquo; the last his principal
work, and published posthumously; he was a man of great shrewdness, broad
sympathies, and a kindly nature; was an author much admired by Charles
Lamb (1608-1661).

{{anchor|Fulton, Robert}}'''Fulton, Robert''', an American engineer, born in Pennsylvania; began
life as a miniature portrait and landscape painter, in which he made some
progress, but soon turned to engineering; he was one of the first to
apply steam to the propulsion of vessels, and devoted much attention to
the invention of submarine boats and torpedoes; he built a steamboat to
navigate the Hudson River, with a very slow rate of progress however,
making only five miles an hour (1615-1765).

{{anchor|Fum}}'''Fum''', a grotesque animal figure, six cubits high, one of four
presumed to preside over the destinies of China.

{{anchor|Funchal}}'''Funchal''' (19), the capital of Madeira, at the head of a bay on the S.
coast, and the base of a mountain 4000 ft. high, extends a mile along the
shore, and slopes up the sides of the mountain; famous as a health
resort, more at one time than now.

{{anchor|Fundy Bay}}'''Fundy Bay''', an arm of the sea between New Brunswick and Nova Scotia;
it is of difficult navigation owing to the strong and rapid rush of the
tides.

{{anchor|Fünen}}'''Fünen''' (221), the second in size of the Danish islands, separated
from Zealand on the E. by the Great Belt and from Jutland on the W. by
the Little Belt; is flat except on S. and W., fertile, well cultivated,
and yields crops of cereals.

{{anchor|Furies}}'''Furies'''. See [[../E#Erinnyes, The|Erinnyes]].

{{anchor|Furnivall, Frederick James}}'''Furnivall, Frederick James''', English barrister, born at Egham, in
Surrey; devoted to the study of Early and Middle English Literature;
founder and director of numerous societies for promoting the study of
special works, such as the Early English Text, Chaucer, Ballad, and New
Shakespeare Societies, and editor of publications in connection with
them; was in his early days a great authority on boating and
boat-building; ''b''. 1825.

{{anchor|Fürst, Julius}}'''Fürst, Julius''', a distinguished German Orientalist, born in Posen, of
Jewish descent; a specialist in Hebrew and Aramaic; author of a Hebrew
and Chaldee Manual (1805-1873).

{{anchor|Fürst, Walter}}'''Fürst, Walter''', of Uri, a Swiss patriot, who, along with William
Tell, contributed to establish the liberty and independence of
Switzerland; ''d''. 1317.

{{anchor|Fuseli, Henry}}'''Fuseli, Henry''', properly '''Fusoli''', a famous portrait-painter, born
at Zurich; coming to England at the age of 22, he became acquainted with
Sir Joshua Reynolds, who advised him to go to Rome; after eight years
spent in study of the Italian masters, and Michael Angelo in particular,
he returned to England and became an R.A.; he painted a series of
pictures, afterwards exhibited as the &amp;ldquo;Milton Gallery&amp;rdquo; (1741-1825).

{{anchor|Fust Johann}}'''Fust Johann''', a rich burgher of Mainz, associated with Gutenberg and
Schöffer, to whom along with them the invention of printing has been
ascribed; ''d''. 1466.

{{anchor|Fyne, Loch}}'''Fyne, Loch''', an Argyllshire arm of the sea, extending N. from Bute to
Inveraray, and from 1 m. to 5 m. broad; famed for its herrings.

{{anchor|Fyzabad}}'''Fyzabad''' (78), capital of Oudh, in India, at one time, 78 m. E. of
Lucknow; much decayed.</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Folklore1919.djvu/15</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>728933</id>
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      <id>15133693</id>
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      <text bytes="1386" sha1="lz8d4utpft6v8mceirnnrw04vqs08q4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cygnis insignis&quot; /&gt;{{RunningHeader||''Minutes of Meetings.''|3}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;[[Author:Edward Clodd|Edward Clodd]], [[Author:William Crooke|W. Crooke]], C.I.E., D.Sc, [[Author:James George Frazer|Sir J. G. Frazer]], D.C.L., LL.D., [[Author:Moses Gaster|M. Gaster]], Ph.D., [[Author:Edwin Sidney Hartland|E. S. Hartland]], F.S.A., LL.D., [[Author:Robert Ranulph Marett|R. R. Marett]], D.Sc, [[Author:William Henry Denham Rouse|W. H. D. Rouse]], Litt.D., [[Author:Archibald Henry Sayce|The 
Rev. Professor A. H. Sayce]], LL.D., D.D., and A. R. Wright, F.S.A. 

As ''Members of Council''—Mrs. [[Author:Mary MacLeod Banks|M. M. Banks]], G. R. Carline, [[Author:Mansel Longworth Dames|M. Longworth Dames]], Capt. A. Allan Gomme, Lady Gomme, P. J. Heather, [[Author:Walter Leo Hildburgh|W. L. Hildburgh]], M.A., Ph.D., T. C. Hodson, [[Author:Eleanor Hull|Miss E. Hull]], Sir E. F. im Thurn, C.B., K.C.M.G., E. Lovett, A. F. Major, Miss Moutray Read, [[Author:W. H. R. Rivers|W. H. R. Rivers]], M.D., F.R.S., [[Author:H. A. Rose|H. A. Rose]], C. J. Tabor, 
His Hon. J. S. Udal, F.S.A., and Sir B. C. A. Windle, F.R.S. 

As ''Hon. Treasurer''—Edward Clodd. 

As ''Hon. Auditor.''—C. J. Tabor. 

As Editor of '' Folk-Lore''—W. Crooke, C.I.E., D.Sc. 

The Chairman delivered his Presidential Address, for which he was accorded a hearty vote of thanks on the motion of Dr. Hartland, seconded by Dr. Gaster. 


{{rule|8em}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 56.djvu/363</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>740627</id>
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      <id>15132496</id>
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      <text bytes="5748" sha1="m7cltxgz167osy9owsu09xpwcyokh77" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Charles Matthews&quot; /&gt;{{rh|Thurstan|357|Thurston}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Thurstan&quot; /&gt;gious houses (''Historians of York'', ii. 267), though this is probably an exaggeration. He certainly founded the nunnery of Clementhorp, near York (''Monasticon'', iv. 323), and may perhaps be said to have founded Fountains Abbey. The foundation of St. Leonard's Hospital at York has been ascribed to him ({{sc|Gervase}}, i. 100), but it existed as St. Peter's Hospital before his time; he obtained grants to it from Henry I; it was burnt in the fire of 1137; and was rebuilt by Stephen with a dedication to St. Leonard (Monasticon, vi. 609). His influence, however, was great with Walter Espec [q. v.], William Paganel [see under {{sc|Paganel, Ralph}}], and other founders of monasteries in the north.

The works attributed to Thurstan by Bale (Cent. ii. 185) are: 1. ‘De origine Fontanensis cœnobii’ (either a mistake for the work of Hugh of Kirkstall; see ''Monasticon'', v. 293, and fully in ''Memorials of Fountains Abbey'', edited by Raine; or else is identical with Thurstan's long and interesting letter to William, archbishop of Canterbury, on the subject printed in the same book). 2. ‘De suo primatu ad Calixtum,’ a matter on which he doubtless wrote much to that pope. 3. ‘Contra juniorem Anselmum,’ probably a reference to the extract from a letter preserved by Diceto and noticed above. Bale adds, ‘Et quædam alia,’ of which nothing is known. A constitution of his ‘De debitis defunctorum Clericorum’ is printed in Wilkins's ‘Concilia’ (i. 412).

&lt;small&gt;[A full life of Thurstan is given in Raine's Fasti Ebor.; it is written with some bias in his favour and on the York side in the dispute with the see of Canterbury, being founded on the life by Hugh the Chantor, or precentor, and archdeacon of York, a contemporary of Thurstan, which is printed in Historians of York, vol. ii. (Rolls Ser.) In the same volume are a letter from Archbishop Ralph to Calixtus complaining of Thurstan, also printed by Twysden; a short life of Thurstan, made up partly of verses by Hugh of Pontefract and Geoffrey Turcople, and partly of prose by a late writer, and of little value, and a chronicle of the Archbishops of York, also printed by Twysden as the work of T. Stubbs, and, so far as Thurstan is concerned, mainly founded on the life by Hugh the Chantor. Also on the York side are Richard of Hexham, ed. Twysden, and John of Hexham, ed. Twysden, and ap. Opp. Symeonis Dunelm. (Rolls Ser.), both also in Raine's Hexham Priory (Surtees Soc. pp. 44, 46). The Canterbury side is represented in Eadmer's Hist. Nov. ed. Migne; see also Chron. Mailros, ed. Gale; Flor. Wig. with Cont. (Engl. Hist. Soc.); Sym. Dunelm. Will. of Malmesbury's Gesta Pontiff. Hen. Huntingdon, Gervase of Cant., R. de Diceto (all Rolls Ser); S. Bernardi Opp. ed. 1690; Ailred's De Bello Standardi, ed. Twysden; Walbran's Memorials of Fountains (Surtees Soc. pp 42, 67). There is a life of Thurstan in C. Henriquez's Phœnix Reviviscens (1626).]&lt;/small&gt;{{DNB WH}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Thurstan&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Thurston, John (1774-1822)&quot; /&gt;'''THURSTON''', JOHN (1774–1822), draughtsman, was born at Scarborough in 1774, and commenced his career as a copperplate engraver, working under James Heath [q. v.], whom he assisted on two of his chief plates, ‘The Death of Major Peirson,’ after Copley, and ‘The Dead Soldier,’ after Wright of Derby. He then took up wood-engraving and eventually devoted himself exclusively to designing book illustrations, in which he was highly successful, and most of the editions of the poets and novelists published during the first twenty years of the present century, especially those issued by the Chiswick Press, were embellished by his pencil. Many of Thurston's drawings were engraved on copper for Sharpe's and Cooke's classics and similar works, but the bulk of them, drawn on the block, were cut by Clennell, Branston, Nesbit, Thompson, and other able wood-engravers. Among his designs of this class are the illustrations to Thomson's ‘Seasons,’ 1805; Beattie's ‘Minstrel,’ 1807; Thomas's ‘Religious Emblems,’ 1809 (a much admired work, which was reissued in 1816 and published in Germany in 1818); Shakespeare's works, 1814; Somerville's ‘Rural Sports,’ 1814; Puckle's ‘Club,’ 1817; [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]] ‘[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]],’ 1817; and Savage's ‘Hints on Decorative Printing,’ 1822. Thurston's drawings were graceful and pleasing, though somewhat artificial and admirably adapted to the wood-engraver's art, which was carried to its greatest perfection under his influence. He was elected an associate of the Water-colour Society in 1806, but contributed only to the exhibition of that year, sending five Shakespearean groups; he was also an occasional exhibitor at the Royal Academy from 1794 to 1812. Being of delicate constitution and retired habits, Thurston was personally little known; he died at his house at Holloway, London, in 1822, his life being shortened by excessive devotion to his art. He had two sons, G. and J. Thurston, who practised as artists and occasionally exhibited at the Royal Academy.

&lt;small&gt;[Redgrave's Dict. of Artists; Jackson and Chatto's Hist. of Wood Engraving; Linton's Masters of Wood Engraving; Nagler's Künstler-Lexikon; Annual Biography and Obituary, 1823.]&lt;/small&gt;{{DNB FMO'D}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Thurston, John (1774-1822)&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Thurston, John Bates&quot; /&gt;'''THURSTON''', {{sc|Sir}} JOHN BATES (1836–1897), colonial governor, eldest son of John Noel Thurston of Bath, and Eliza West, was born in London on 31 Jan. 1836. He was educated at a private school in the&lt;section end=&quot;Thurston, John Bates&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Author:Robert Carruthers</title>
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 | lastname     = Carruthers
 | last_initial = Ca
 | description  = Journalist and editor (of the ''Inverness Courier''){{EB9 contributor|{{small-caps|R. Ca.}}}} {{EB1911 contributor|{{small-caps|R. Ca.}}}}
 }}

==Works==
* ''History of Huntingdon'' (1824)
* ''The Poetry of Milton's Prose'' (1827)
* ''The Highland Note-book, or Sketches and Anecdotes'' (1843)
* ''The Life of Alexander Pope, with Extracts from his Correspondence'' (1857)
* ''Chambers's Cyclopædia of English Literature'' (1843–4), co-authored with [[Author:Robert Chambers (1802-1871)|Robert Chambers]]

===As editor===
* ''Journal of a Tour in the Hebrides'' by [[Author:James Boswell|James Boswell]] (1851)
* ''The Poetical Works of Alexander Pope'' (1853), in 4 vols.

===Essays===
* &quot;Literary Sketches and Parallels&quot; in ''[[The Edinburgh Literary Journal]]'' (1831) {{ssl|The Edinburgh Literary Journal (Volume 5, 1831).djvu}}

===Contributions to [[EB9]]===
* {{EB9 Link|Falconer, William|volume=9}}
* {{EB9 Link|Gray, Thomas|volume=11}}

===Contributions to [[EB1911]]===
* {{EB1911 Link|Garrick, David}} (''in part'')

==Works about Carruthers==
* {{DNB link|Carruthers, Robert}}
* {{SBDEL link|Carruthers, Robert}}

{{PD-old}}
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[[Category:United Kingdom authors]]</text>
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    <title>Author:Joseph Ritson</title>
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 | firstname    = Joseph
 | lastname     = Ritson
 | last_initial = Ri
 | description  = English antiquary
 }}

==Works==
* ''The Stockton Jubilee, or Shakespeare in all his Glory'' (1781) 
* ''Observations on the three first volumes of the &quot;History of English Poetry&quot;'' (1782)
* ''Remarks Critical and Illustrative on the Text of the last Edition of Shakespeare'' (1783)
* ''The Spartan Manual or Tablet of Morality'' (1785)
* ''The Quip Modest'' (1788)
* ''The Office of Constable'' (1791)
* ''The Jurisdiction of the Court Leet'' (1791)
* ''[[Cursory Criticisms on the Edition of Shakspeare Published by Edmond Malone]]'' (1792) [http://name.umdl.umich.edu/004909875.0001.000 EEBO]
* ''An Essay on Abstinence from Animal Food as a Moral Duty'' (1802) {{small scan link|An essay on abstinence from animal food, as a moral duty.djvu}}
* ''Bibliographia Poetica: a Catalogue of English Poets of the Twelfth, Thirteenth, Fourteenth, Fifteenth, and Sixteenth Centurys, with a Short Account of their Works'' (1802) 
* ''The Office of Bailiff of a Liberty'' (1811) 
* ''The Caledonian Muse: a Chronological Selection of Scottish Poetry from the earliest times'' (1821). 
* ''The Life of King Arthur'' (1825)
* ''Memoirs of the Celts or Gauls'' (1827) 
* ''Annals of the Caledonians, Picts, and Scots'' (1828), in 2 vols. 
* ''[[Fairy Tales, Now First Collected]]'' (1831)

===As editor===
* ''[[Gammer Gurton's Garland|Gammer Gurton's Garland, or the Nursery Parnassus]]'' (1783)
* ''Select Collection of English Songs'' (1783), in 3 vols.
* ''Bishopric Garland, or Durham Minstrel'' (1784)
* ''Yorkshire Garland'' (1788) 
* ''Pieces of Ancient Popular Poetry from Authentic Manuscripts and old printed Copies adorned with [fifteen] Cuts’ by Thomas and John Bewick'' (1791)
* ''Ancient Songs from the time of King Henry the Third to the Revolution'' (1792), in 2 vols.
* ''The North Country Chorister'' (1792)
* ''The Northumbrian Garland, or Newcastle Nightingale'' (1793)
* ''English Anthology'' (1793–1794), in 3 vols. 
* ''Scottish Song with the genuine Music'' (1794), in 2 vols.
* ''Poems, written anno-MCCCLII'' (1795), by [[author:Laurence Minot|Laurence Minot]] [https://archive.org/details/poemswrittenanno00minorich/page/n4 external scan]
* ''Robin Hood, a Collection of all the Ancient Poems, Songs, and Ballads now extant relating to that celebrated English Outlaw'' (1795), in 2 vols.
* ''Ancient Engleish Metrical Romanceës'' (1802), in 3 vols.

==Works about Ritson==
* {{DNB link|Ritson, Joseph}}
* {{EB1911 link|Ritson, Joseph}}
* {{SBDEL link|Ritson, Joseph}}


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    <title>Page:Hoyt's New Cyclopedia Of Practical Quotations (1922).djvu/742</title>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:14:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="6969" sha1="me877roltsytt0fpcfoyyh9ea5gm9t7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh|704|SHIPWRECK|SHIPWRECK}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 1
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;The barge she sat in, like a burnish'd throne,
Burn'd on the water: the poop was beaten gold;
Purple the sails, and so perfumed that
The winds were love-sick with them: the oars were silver,
Which to the tune of flutes kept stroke, and made
The water which they beat to follow faster,
As amorous of their strokes.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = Antony and Cleopatra.
 | place = Act II. Sc. 2. L. 196.
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 2
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;It would have been as though he [Pres. Johnson] were in a boat of stone with masts of steel, 
sails of lead, ropes of iron, the devil at the helm, 
the wrath of God for a breeze, and hell for his 
destination. 
Emory A. Stobrs—Speech in Chicago, about 
1865-6, when President Johnson threatened to imitate Cromwell and force Congress with troops to adjourn. As reported 
in the Chicago Tribune. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;And the stately ships go on 
To their haven under the hill. 
 | author = [[Author:Alfred Tennyson|Tennyson]]
 | work =  Break. Break, Break. St. 3. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Ships, dim discover'd, dropping from the clouds. 
Thomson—The Seasons. Summer. L. 946. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Whoever you are, motion and reflection are especially for you, 
The divine ship sails the divine sea for you. 
Walt Whitman—Song of the Rolling Earth. 2. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Speed on the ship;—But let her bear 
No merchandise of sin, 
No groaning cargo of despair 
Her roomy hold within; 
No Lethean drug for Eastern lands, 
Nor poison-draught for ours; 
But honest fruits of toiling hands 
And Nature's sun and showers. 
Whittier—The Ship-Builders. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;If all the ships I have at sea 
Should come a-sailing home to me, 
Ah, well! the harbor would not hold 
So many ships as there would be 
If all my ships came home from sea. 
Ella Wheeler Wilcox—My Ships. From 
Poems of Passion. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;One ship drives East, and one drives West, 
By the selfsame wind that blowsIt's the set of the sails, and not the gales, 
Which determines the way it goes. 
Ella Wheeler Wilcox—Winds of Fate. 
SHIPWRECK
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Ships) 
Some hoisted out the boats, and there was one 
That begged Pedrillo for an absolution, 
Who told him to be damn'd,—in his confusion.
 | author = [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]
 | work = Don Juan. Canto II. St. 44. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Then rose from sea to sky the wild farewell—
Then shriek'd the timid, and stood still the 
brave,—
Then some leap'd overboard with fearful yell, 
As eager to anticipate their grave.
 | author = [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]
 | work = Don Juan. Canto II. St. 52. 

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 11
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Again she plunges! hark! a second shock 
Bilges the splitting vessel on the rock; 
Down on the vale of death, with dismal cries, 
The fated victims shuddering cast their eyes 
In wild despair; while yet another stroke 
With strong convulsion rends the solid oak: 
Ah Heaven!—behold her crashing ribs divide! 
She loosens, parts, and spreads in ruin o'er the 
tide. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:William Falconer|Falconer]]
 | work = [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]
 | place = Canto III. L. 642.
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;And fast through the midnight dark and drear, 
Through the whistling sleet and snow, 
Like a sheeted ghost, the vessel swept 
Towards the reef of Norman's Woe. 
 | author = [[Author:Henry Wadsworth Longfellow|Longfellow]]
 | work =  The Wreck of the Hesperus. St. 
15. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Naufragium sibi quisque facit. 
Each man makes his own shipwreck. 
Lucanus—Pharsalia. I. 499. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Through the black night and driving rain 
A ship is struggling, all in vain. 
To live upon the stormy main;—
Miserere Domine! 
Adelaide A. Procter—The Storm. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;But hark! what shriek of death comes in the 
gale, 
And in the distant ray what glimmering sail 
Bends to the storm?—Now sinks the note of 
fear! 
Ah! wretched mariners!—no more shall day 
Unclose his cheering eye to light ye on your way! 
Mrs. Radcliffe—Mysteries of Udolpho. 
Shipwreck. 
16 O, I have suffer'd 
With those that I saw suffer: a brave vessel, 
Who had, no doubt, some noble creature in her, 
Dash'd all to pieces. O, the cry did knock 
Against my very heart! Poor souls, they perTempest. Act I. Sc. 2. L. 5. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;A rotten carcass of a boat, not rigged, 
Nor tackle, sail, nor mast; the very rats 
Instinctively have quit it. 
Tempest. Act I. Sc. 2. L. 146. 
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 15
 | text = Every drunken skipper trusts to Providence. 
But one of the ways of Providence with drunken 
skippers is to run them on the rocks. 
Bernard Shaw—Heartbreak House. Act III. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Improbe Neptunum accusat, qui iterum naufragium facit. 
He wrongly accuses Neptune, who makes 
shipwreck a second time. 
Syrus. Gellius. 17. 14; Macrobius—
Satires. II. 7. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Apparent rari nantes in gurgite vasto. 
Here and there they are seen swimming in 
the vast flood. 
[[Author:Virgil|Vergil]]—Æneid. I. 118. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Or shipwrecked, kindles on the coast 
False fires, that others may be lost. 
Wordsworth—To the Lady Fleming. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133565</id>
      <parentid>15133555</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:31:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133565</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7346" sha1="aojytvsnwdh6yh4w4a32bfgx62xtuhn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh|704|SHIPWRECK|SHIPWRECK|{{nil}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 1
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;The barge she sat in, like a burnish'd throne,
Burn'd on the water: the poop was beaten gold;
Purple the sails, and so perfumed that
The winds were love-sick with them: the oars were silver,
Which to the tune of flutes kept stroke, and made
The water which they beat to follow faster,
As amorous of their strokes.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = Antony and Cleopatra.
 | place = Act II. Sc. 2. L. 196.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 2
 | text = It would have been as though he [Pres. Johnson] were in a boat of stone with masts of steel, sails of lead, ropes of iron, the devil at the helm, the wrath of God for a breeze, and hell for his destination.
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Emory A. Storrs
 | work = Speech in Chicago, about 1865-6, when President Johnson threatened to imitate {{sc|Cromwell}} and force Congress with troops to adjourn. As reported in the Chicago ''Tribune''. 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 3
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;And the stately ships go on 
To their haven under the hill.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = [[Author:Alfred Tennyson|Tennyson]]
 | work =  Break. Break, Break.  
 | place = St. 3.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 4
 | text = Ships, dim discover'd, dropping from the clouds. 
 | author = Thomson
 | work = The Seasons
 | place = Summer. L. 946.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 5
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Whoever you are, motion and reflection are especially for you, 
The divine ship sails the divine sea for you. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Walt Whitman
 | work = Song of the Rolling Earth
 | place = 2
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 6
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Speed on the ship;—But let her bear 
{{em}}No merchandise of sin, 
No groaning cargo of despair 
{{em}}Her roomy hold within; 
No Lethean drug for Eastern lands, 
{{em}}Nor poison-draught for ours; 
But honest fruits of toiling hands 
{{em}}And Nature's sun and showers. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Whittier
 | work = The Ship-Builders
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 7
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;If all the ships I have at sea 
Should come a-sailing home to me, 
{{em|2}}Ah, well! the harbor would not hold 
So many ships as there would be 
If all my ships came home from sea. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Ella Wheeler Wilcox
 | work = My Ships
 | place = 
 | note = From ''Poems of Passion''.
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 8
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;One ship drives East, and one drives West, 
By the selfsame wind that blows;
It's the set of the sails, and not the gales, 
Which determines the way it goes. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Ella Wheeler Wilcox
 | work = Winds of Fate
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt topic|SHIPWRECK (See also {{sc|Ships)}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 9
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;Some hoisted out the boats, and there was one 
That begged Pedrillo for an absolution, 
Who told him to be damn'd,—in his confusion.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Don Juan
 | place   = Canto II. St. 44.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 10
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Then rose from sea to sky the wild farewell—
Then shriek'd the timid, and stood still the brave,—
Then some leap'd overboard with fearful yell, 
As eager to anticipate their grave.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]
 | work = Don Juan. Canto II. St. 52. 
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Don Juan
 | place   = Canto II. St. 52.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 11
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Again she plunges! hark! a second shock 
Bilges the splitting vessel on the rock; 
Down on the vale of death, with dismal cries, 
The fated victims shuddering cast their eyes 
In wild despair; while yet another stroke 
With strong convulsion rends the solid oak: 
Ah Heaven!—behold her crashing ribs divide! 
She loosens, parts, and spreads in ruin o'er the tide. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:William Falconer|Falconer]]
 | work = [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]
 | place = Canto III. L. 642.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 12
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;And fast through the midnight dark and drear, 
{{em}}Through the whistling sleet and snow, 
Like a sheeted ghost, the vessel swept 
{{em}}Towards the reef of Norman's Woe. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Henry Wadsworth Longfellow|Longfellow]]
 | work =  The Wreck of the Hesperus 
 | place = St. 15. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 13
 | text = Naufragium sibi quisque facit. 
 | trans = Each man makes his own shipwreck.
 | author = Lucanus
 | work = Pharsalia
 | place = I. 499.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 14
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Through the black night and driving rain 
A ship is struggling, all in vain. 
To live upon the stormy main;—
{{em|2}}Miserere Domine! &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Adelaide A. Procter
 | work = The Storm
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;But hark! what shriek of death comes in the 
gale, 
And in the distant ray what glimmering sail 
Bends to the storm?—Now sinks the note of 
fear! 
Ah! wretched mariners!—no more shall day 
Unclose his cheering eye to light ye on your way! 
Mrs. Radcliffe—Mysteries of Udolpho. 
Shipwreck. 
16 O, I have suffer'd 
With those that I saw suffer: a brave vessel, 
Who had, no doubt, some noble creature in her, 
Dash'd all to pieces. O, the cry did knock 
Against my very heart! Poor souls, they perTempest. Act I. Sc. 2. L. 5. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;A rotten carcass of a boat, not rigged, 
Nor tackle, sail, nor mast; the very rats 
Instinctively have quit it. 
Tempest. Act I. Sc. 2. L. 146. 
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 15
 | text = Every drunken skipper trusts to Providence. 
But one of the ways of Providence with drunken 
skippers is to run them on the rocks. 
Bernard Shaw—Heartbreak House. Act III. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Improbe Neptunum accusat, qui iterum naufragium facit. 
He wrongly accuses Neptune, who makes 
shipwreck a second time. 
Syrus. Gellius. 17. 14; Macrobius—
Satires. II. 7. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Apparent rari nantes in gurgite vasto. 
Here and there they are seen swimming in 
the vast flood. 
[[Author:Virgil|Vergil]]—Æneid. I. 118. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Or shipwrecked, kindles on the coast 
False fires, that others may be lost. 
Wordsworth—To the Lady Fleming. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = 
 | page = 704
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133604</id>
      <parentid>15133565</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:51:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133604</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="7648" sha1="al5uttcj77lea9wk2tw27s24naqvjmn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh|704|SHIPWRECK|SHIPWRECK|{{nil}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 1
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;The barge she sat in, like a burnish'd throne,
Burn'd on the water: the poop was beaten gold;
Purple the sails, and so perfumed that
The winds were love-sick with them: the oars were silver,
Which to the tune of flutes kept stroke, and made
The water which they beat to follow faster,
As amorous of their strokes.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = Antony and Cleopatra.
 | place = Act II. Sc. 2. L. 196.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 2
 | text = It would have been as though he [Pres. Johnson] were in a boat of stone with masts of steel, sails of lead, ropes of iron, the devil at the helm, the wrath of God for a breeze, and hell for his destination.
 | author = Emory A. Storrs
 | work = Speech in Chicago, about 1865-6, when President Johnson threatened to imitate {{sc|Cromwell}} and force Congress with troops to adjourn. As reported in the Chicago ''Tribune''. 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 3
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;And the stately ships go on 
To their haven under the hill.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = [[Author:Alfred Tennyson|Tennyson]]
 | work =  Break. Break, Break.  
 | place = St. 3.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 4
 | text = Ships, dim discover'd, dropping from the clouds. 
 | author = Thomson
 | work = The Seasons. Summer. 
 | place = L. 946.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 5
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Whoever you are, motion and reflection are especially for you, 
The divine ship sails the divine sea for you. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Walt Whitman
 | work = Song of the Rolling Earth.
 | place = 2
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 6
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Speed on the ship;—But let her bear 
{{em}}No merchandise of sin, 
No groaning cargo of despair 
{{em}}Her roomy hold within; 
No Lethean drug for Eastern lands, 
{{em}}Nor poison-draught for ours; 
But honest fruits of toiling hands 
{{em}}And Nature's sun and showers. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Whittier
 | work = The Ship-Builders.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 7
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;If all the ships I have at sea 
Should come a-sailing home to me, 
{{em|2}}Ah, well! the harbor would not hold 
So many ships as there would be 
If all my ships came home from sea. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Ella Wheeler Wilcox
 | work = My Ships.
 | place = 
 | note = From ''Poems of Passion''.
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 8
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;One ship drives East, and one drives West, 
By the selfsame wind that blows;
It's the set of the sails, and not the gales, 
Which determines the way it goes. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Ella Wheeler Wilcox
 | work = Winds of Fate.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt topic|SHIPWRECK}} (See also {{sc|Ships}})
{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 9
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;Some hoisted out the boats, and there was one 
That begged Pedrillo for an absolution, 
Who told him to be damn'd,—in his confusion.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Don Juan.
 | place   = Canto II. St. 44.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 10
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Then rose from sea to sky the wild farewell—
Then shriek'd the timid, and stood still the brave,—
Then some leap'd overboard with fearful yell, 
As eager to anticipate their grave.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]
 | work = Don Juan.
 | place   = Canto II. St. 52.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 11
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Again she plunges! hark! a second shock 
Bilges the splitting vessel on the rock; 
Down on the vale of death, with dismal cries, 
The fated victims shuddering cast their eyes 
In wild despair; while yet another stroke 
With strong convulsion rends the solid oak: 
Ah Heaven!—behold her crashing ribs divide! 
She loosens, parts, and spreads in ruin o'er the tide. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:William Falconer|Falconer]]
 | work = [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]].
 | place = Canto III. L. 642.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 12
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;And fast through the midnight dark and drear, 
{{em}}Through the whistling sleet and snow, 
Like a sheeted ghost, the vessel swept 
{{em}}Towards the reef of Norman's Woe. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Henry Wadsworth Longfellow|Longfellow]]
 | work =  The Wreck of the Hesperus.
 | place = St. 15. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 13
 | text = Naufragium sibi quisque facit. 
 | trans = Each man makes his own shipwreck.
 | author = Lucanus
 | work = Pharsalia.
 | place = I. 499.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 14
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Through the black night and driving rain 
A ship is struggling, all in vain. 
To live upon the stormy main;—
{{em|2}}Miserere Domine! &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Adelaide A. Procter
 | work = The Storm.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 15
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;{{em}}But hark! what shriek of death comes in the gale, 
{{em}}And in the distant ray what glimmering sail 
{{em}}Bends to the storm?—Now sinks the note of fear! 
Ah! wretched mariners!—no more shall day 
Unclose his cheering eye to light ye on your way! &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author  = [[Author:Anne Radcliffe|Mrs. Radcliffe]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = [[Mysteries of Udolpho]]. Shipwreck.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 16
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;{{phantom|With those that I saw su}}O, I have suffer'd 
With those that I saw suffer: a brave vessel, 
Who had, no doubt, some noble creature in her, 
Dash'd all to pieces. O, the cry did knock 
Against my very heart! Poor souls, they perished.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | trans   = 
 | author  = 
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Tempest.
 | place   = Act I. Sc. 2. L. 5.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 17
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;A rotten carcass of a boat, not rigged, 
Nor tackle, sail, nor mast; the very rats 
Instinctively have quit it. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = Tempest.
 | place = Act I. Sc. 2. L. 146.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 18
 | text = Every drunken skipper trusts to Providence. But one of the ways of Providence with drunken skippers is to run them on the rocks. 
 | author = [[Author:George Bernard Shaw|Bernard Shaw]]
 | work = Heartbreak House.
 | place = Act III.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 19
 | text = Improbe Neptunum accusat, qui iterum naufragium facit. 
 | trans = He wrongly accuses Neptune, who makes shipwreck a second time. 
 | author = Syrus. Gellius.
 | work = 
 | place = 17. 14;
 | note = 
 | seealso = Macrobius—Satires. II. 7. 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 20
 | text = Apparent rari nantes in gurgite vasto. 
 | trans = Here and there they are seen swimming in the vast flood. 
 | author = [[Author:Virgil|Vergil]]
 | work = Æneid.
 | place = I. 118.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 21
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Or shipwrecked, kindles on the coast 
False fires, that others may be lost. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:William Wordsworth|Wordsworth]]
 | work = To the Lady Fleming.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15133607</id>
      <parentid>15133604</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:53:17Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="7870" sha1="0c1k1i6exvpof33vzci2aohbvmp7r2j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh|704|SHIPWRECK|SHIPWRECK|{{nil}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 1
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;The barge she sat in, like a burnish'd throne,
Burn'd on the water: the poop was beaten gold;
Purple the sails, and so perfumed that
The winds were love-sick with them: the oars were silver,
Which to the tune of flutes kept stroke, and made
The water which they beat to follow faster,
As amorous of their strokes.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = Antony and Cleopatra.
 | place = Act II. Sc. 2. L. 196.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 2
 | text = It would have been as though he [Pres. Johnson] were in a boat of stone with masts of steel, sails of lead, ropes of iron, the devil at the helm, the wrath of God for a breeze, and hell for his destination.
 | author = Emory A. Storrs
 | work = Speech in Chicago, about 1865-6, when President Johnson threatened to imitate {{sc|Cromwell}} and force Congress with troops to adjourn. As reported in the Chicago ''Tribune''. 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 3
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;And the stately ships go on 
To their haven under the hill.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = [[Author:Alfred Tennyson|Tennyson]]
 | work =  Break. Break, Break.  
 | place = St. 3.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 4
 | text = Ships, dim discover'd, dropping from the clouds. 
 | author = [[Author:James Thomson (1700-1748)|Thomson]]
 | work = The Seasons. Summer. 
 | place = L. 946.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 5
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Whoever you are, motion and reflection are especially for you, 
The divine ship sails the divine sea for you. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Walt Whitman|Walt Whitman]]
 | work = Song of the Rolling Earth.
 | place = 2
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 6
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Speed on the ship;—But let her bear 
{{em}}No merchandise of sin, 
No groaning cargo of despair 
{{em}}Her roomy hold within; 
No Lethean drug for Eastern lands, 
{{em}}Nor poison-draught for ours; 
But honest fruits of toiling hands 
{{em}}And Nature's sun and showers. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:John Greenleaf Whittier|Whittier]]
 | work = The Ship-Builders.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 7
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;If all the ships I have at sea 
Should come a-sailing home to me, 
{{em|2}}Ah, well! the harbor would not hold 
So many ships as there would be 
If all my ships came home from sea. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Ella Wheeler Wilcox|Ella Wheeler Wilcox]]
 | work = My Ships.
 | place = 
 | note = From ''Poems of Passion''.
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 8
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;One ship drives East, and one drives West, 
By the selfsame wind that blows;
It's the set of the sails, and not the gales, 
Which determines the way it goes. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Ella Wheeler Wilcox|Ella Wheeler Wilcox]]
 | work = Winds of Fate.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt topic|SHIPWRECK}} (See also {{sc|Ships}})
{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 9
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;Some hoisted out the boats, and there was one 
That begged Pedrillo for an absolution, 
Who told him to be damn'd,—in his confusion.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Don Juan.
 | place   = Canto II. St. 44.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 10
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Then rose from sea to sky the wild farewell—
Then shriek'd the timid, and stood still the brave,—
Then some leap'd overboard with fearful yell, 
As eager to anticipate their grave.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]
 | work = Don Juan.
 | place   = Canto II. St. 52.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 11
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Again she plunges! hark! a second shock 
Bilges the splitting vessel on the rock; 
Down on the vale of death, with dismal cries, 
The fated victims shuddering cast their eyes 
In wild despair; while yet another stroke 
With strong convulsion rends the solid oak: 
Ah Heaven!—behold her crashing ribs divide! 
She loosens, parts, and spreads in ruin o'er the tide. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:William Falconer|Falconer]]
 | work = [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]].
 | place = Canto III. L. 642.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 12
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;And fast through the midnight dark and drear, 
{{em}}Through the whistling sleet and snow, 
Like a sheeted ghost, the vessel swept 
{{em}}Towards the reef of Norman's Woe. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Henry Wadsworth Longfellow|Longfellow]]
 | work =  The Wreck of the Hesperus.
 | place = St. 15. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 13
 | text = Naufragium sibi quisque facit. 
 | trans = Each man makes his own shipwreck.
 | author = [[Author:Marcus Annaeus Lucanus|Lucanus]]
 | work = Pharsalia.
 | place = I. 499.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 14
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Through the black night and driving rain 
A ship is struggling, all in vain. 
To live upon the stormy main;—
{{em|2}}Miserere Domine! &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Adelaide A. Procter|Adelaide A. Procter]]
 | work = The Storm.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 15
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;{{em}}But hark! what shriek of death comes in the gale, 
{{em}}And in the distant ray what glimmering sail 
{{em}}Bends to the storm?—Now sinks the note of fear! 
Ah! wretched mariners!—no more shall day 
Unclose his cheering eye to light ye on your way! &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author  = [[Author:Ann Radcliffe|Mrs. Radcliffe]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = [[Mysteries of Udolpho]]. Shipwreck.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 16
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;{{phantom|With those that I saw su}}O, I have suffer'd 
With those that I saw suffer: a brave vessel, 
Who had, no doubt, some noble creature in her, 
Dash'd all to pieces. O, the cry did knock 
Against my very heart! Poor souls, they perished.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | trans   = 
 | author  = 
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Tempest.
 | place   = Act I. Sc. 2. L. 5.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 17
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;A rotten carcass of a boat, not rigged, 
Nor tackle, sail, nor mast; the very rats 
Instinctively have quit it. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = Tempest.
 | place = Act I. Sc. 2. L. 146.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 18
 | text = Every drunken skipper trusts to Providence. But one of the ways of Providence with drunken skippers is to run them on the rocks. 
 | author = [[Author:George Bernard Shaw|Bernard Shaw]]
 | work = Heartbreak House.
 | place = Act III.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 19
 | text = Improbe Neptunum accusat, qui iterum naufragium facit. 
 | trans = He wrongly accuses Neptune, who makes shipwreck a second time. 
 | author = Syrus. Gellius.
 | work = 
 | place = 17. 14;
 | note = 
 | seealso = Macrobius—Satires. II. 7. 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 20
 | text = Apparent rari nantes in gurgite vasto. 
 | trans = Here and there they are seen swimming in the vast flood. 
 | author = [[Author:Virgil|Vergil]]
 | work = Æneid.
 | place = I. 118.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 21
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Or shipwrecked, kindles on the coast 
False fires, that others may be lost. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:William Wordsworth|Wordsworth]]
 | work = To the Lady Fleming.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15133610</id>
      <parentid>15133607</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:54:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
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      <text bytes="7872" sha1="l97b594rb510m5rgvbhmq54ie2yw8ms" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh|704|SHIPWRECK|SHIPWRECK|{{nil}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 1
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;The barge she sat in, like a burnish'd throne,
Burn'd on the water: the poop was beaten gold;
Purple the sails, and so perfumed that
The winds were love-sick with them: the oars were silver,
Which to the tune of flutes kept stroke, and made
The water which they beat to follow faster,
As amorous of their strokes.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = Antony and Cleopatra.
 | place = Act II. Sc. 2. L. 196.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 2
 | text = It would have been as though he [Pres. Johnson] were in a boat of stone with masts of steel, sails of lead, ropes of iron, the devil at the helm, the wrath of God for a breeze, and hell for his destination.
 | author = Emory A. Storrs
 | work = Speech in Chicago, about 1865-6, when President Johnson threatened to imitate {{sc|Cromwell}} and force Congress with troops to adjourn. As reported in the Chicago ''Tribune''. 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 3
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;And the stately ships go on 
To their haven under the hill.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = [[Author:Alfred Tennyson|Tennyson]]
 | work =  Break. Break, Break.  
 | place = St. 3.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 4
 | text = Ships, dim discover'd, dropping from the clouds. 
 | author = [[Author:James Thomson (1700-1748)|Thomson]]
 | work = The Seasons. Summer. 
 | place = L. 946.
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 5
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Whoever you are, motion and reflection are especially for you, 
The divine ship sails the divine sea for you. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Walt Whitman|Walt Whitman]]
 | work = Song of the Rolling Earth.
 | place = 2
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 6
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Speed on the ship;—But let her bear 
{{em}}No merchandise of sin, 
No groaning cargo of despair 
{{em}}Her roomy hold within; 
No Lethean drug for Eastern lands, 
{{em}}Nor poison-draught for ours; 
But honest fruits of toiling hands 
{{em}}And Nature's sun and showers. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:John Greenleaf Whittier|Whittier]]
 | work = The Ship-Builders.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 7
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;If all the ships I have at sea 
Should come a-sailing home to me, 
{{em|2}}Ah, well! the harbor would not hold 
So many ships as there would be 
If all my ships came home from sea. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Ella Wheeler Wilcox|Ella Wheeler Wilcox]]
 | work = My Ships.
 | place = 
 | note = From ''Poems of Passion''.
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 8
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;One ship drives East, and one drives West, 
By the selfsame wind that blows;
It's the set of the sails, and not the gales, 
Which determines the way it goes. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Ella Wheeler Wilcox|Ella Wheeler Wilcox]]
 | work = Winds of Fate.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Ships
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt topic|SHIPWRECK}} (See also {{sc|Ships}})
{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 9
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;Some hoisted out the boats, and there was one 
That begged Pedrillo for an absolution, 
Who told him to be damn'd,—in his confusion.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Don Juan.
 | place   = Canto II. St. 44.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 10
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Then rose from sea to sky the wild farewell—
Then shriek'd the timid, and stood still the brave,—
Then some leap'd overboard with fearful yell, 
As eager to anticipate their grave.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]
 | work = Don Juan.
 | place   = Canto II. St. 52.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 11
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Again she plunges! hark! a second shock 
Bilges the splitting vessel on the rock; 
Down on the vale of death, with dismal cries, 
The fated victims shuddering cast their eyes 
In wild despair; while yet another stroke 
With strong convulsion rends the solid oak: 
Ah Heaven!—behold her crashing ribs divide! 
She loosens, parts, and spreads in ruin o'er the tide. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:William Falconer|Falconer]]
 | work = [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]].
 | place = Canto III. L. 642.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 12
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;And fast through the midnight dark and drear, 
{{em}}Through the whistling sleet and snow, 
Like a sheeted ghost, the vessel swept 
{{em}}Towards the reef of Norman's Woe. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Henry Wadsworth Longfellow|Longfellow]]
 | work =  The Wreck of the Hesperus.
 | place = St. 15. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 13
 | text = Naufragium sibi quisque facit. 
 | trans = Each man makes his own shipwreck.
 | author = [[Author:Marcus Annaeus Lucanus|Lucanus]]
 | work = Pharsalia.
 | place = I. 499.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 14
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Through the black night and driving rain 
A ship is struggling, all in vain. 
To live upon the stormy main;—
{{em|2}}Miserere Domine! &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:Adelaide Anne Procter|Adelaide A. Procter]]
 | work = The Storm.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 15
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;{{em}}But hark! what shriek of death comes in the gale, 
{{em}}And in the distant ray what glimmering sail 
{{em}}Bends to the storm?—Now sinks the note of fear! 
Ah! wretched mariners!—no more shall day 
Unclose his cheering eye to light ye on your way! &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author  = [[Author:Ann Radcliffe|Mrs. Radcliffe]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = [[Mysteries of Udolpho]]. Shipwreck.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 16
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;{{phantom|With those that I saw su}}O, I have suffer'd 
With those that I saw suffer: a brave vessel, 
Who had, no doubt, some noble creature in her, 
Dash'd all to pieces. O, the cry did knock 
Against my very heart! Poor souls, they perished.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | trans   = 
 | author  = 
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Tempest.
 | place   = Act I. Sc. 2. L. 5.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 17
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;A rotten carcass of a boat, not rigged, 
Nor tackle, sail, nor mast; the very rats 
Instinctively have quit it. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = Tempest.
 | place = Act I. Sc. 2. L. 146.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 18
 | text = Every drunken skipper trusts to Providence. But one of the ways of Providence with drunken skippers is to run them on the rocks. 
 | author = [[Author:George Bernard Shaw|Bernard Shaw]]
 | work = Heartbreak House.
 | place = Act III.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 19
 | text = Improbe Neptunum accusat, qui iterum naufragium facit. 
 | trans = He wrongly accuses Neptune, who makes shipwreck a second time. 
 | author = Syrus. Gellius.
 | work = 
 | place = 17. 14;
 | note = 
 | seealso = Macrobius—Satires. II. 7. 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 20
 | text = Apparent rari nantes in gurgite vasto. 
 | trans = Here and there they are seen swimming in the vast flood. 
 | author = [[Author:Virgil|Vergil]]
 | work = Æneid.
 | place = I. 118.
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 21
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Or shipwrecked, kindles on the coast 
False fires, that others may be lost. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = [[Author:William Wordsworth|Wordsworth]]
 | work = To the Lady Fleming.
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Shipwreck
 | page = 704
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Hoyt's New Cyclopedia Of Practical Quotations (1922).djvu/803</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>771222</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133778</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:53:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133778</origin>
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      <text bytes="6581" sha1="7bce1fnbtsp2bmtdnn2rv5f45mxejg9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh||SUN |SUN|765}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 1
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = Richard III.
 | place = Act I. Sc. 1. L. 1.
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 2
 | text = Thy eternal summer shall not fade. 
 | author = 
 | work = Sonnet XVIII.
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 3
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Heat, ma'am! it was so dreadful here, that 
I found there was nothing left for it but to 
take off my flesh and sit in my bones.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Sydney Smith
 | work = Lady Holland's Memoir.
 | place = Vol. I. P. 267.
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 4
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Then came the jolly sommer, being dight 
In a thin silken cassock, coloured greene, 
That was unlyned all, to be more light. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Spenser
 | work = Faerie Queene.
 | place = Bk. VII. Canto VII. St. 29. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 5
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;From brightening fields of ether fair-disclosed, 
Child of the Sun, refulgent Summer comes, 
In pride of youth, and felt through Nature's depth; 
He comes, attended by the sultry Hours, 
And ever-fanning breezes, on his way.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Thomson
 | work = Seasons. Summer.
 | place = L. 1. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 6
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;All-conquering Heat, O, intermit thy wrath! 
And on my throbbing temples, potent thus, 
Beam not so fierce! incessant still you flow, 
And still another fervent flood succeeds, 
Pour'd on the head profuse. In vain I sigh, 
And restless turn, and look around for night; 
Night is far off; and hotter Hours approach. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Thomson
 | work = Seasons. Summer.
 | place = L. 451. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}
 
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 7
 | text = Patient of thirst and toil, 
Son of the desert, e'en the Camel feels, 
Shot through his wither'd heart, the fiery blast. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Thomson
 | work = Seasons. Summer.
 | place = L. 965. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt topic|SUN (The) }}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 8
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;When the Sun 
Clearest shineth 
Serenest in the heaven, 
Quickly are obscured 
All over the earth 
Other stars.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = 
 | work = King Alfred.
 | place = Trans, of Boethius—Consolation.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 9
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;The sun, which passeth through pollutions and itself remains as pure as before.  
 | author = Bacon
 | work = Advancement of Learning.
 | place = Bk. II.
 | note = 
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Diogenes, Lyly, Taylor}}, also {{sc|Augustine}} under {{sc|Corruption}})
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 10
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;The sun, centre and sire of light, 
The keystone of the world-built arch of heaven. 
Bailey—Festus. Sc. Heaven. 
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}


See the sun! 
God's crest upon His azure shield, the Heavens. 
Bailey—Festus. Sc. A Mountain. 
See the gold sunshine patching, 
And streaming and streaking across 
The gray-green oaks: and catching, 
By its soft brown beard, the moss. 
Bailey—Festus. Sc. The Surface. L. 409. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = Pleasantly, between the pelting showers, the sunshine gushes down.
 | author = Bryant
 | work = The Cloud on the Way.
 | place = L. 18.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = Make hay while the sun shines.
 | author = Cervantes
 | work = Don Quixote.
 | place = Pt. I. Bk. III. Ch. 11. 


The sun, too, shines into cesspools, and is 
not polluted. 
Diogenes Laertius—Bk. VI. Sec. 63. 
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Bacon}}) 


Behold him setting in his western skies, 
The shadows lengthening as the vapours rise. 
[[Author:John Dryden|Dryden]]—Absalom and Achitophel. St. 1. 
L. 268. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = 
 | place = 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;The glorious lamp of heaven, the radiant sun, 
Is Nature's eye. 
[[Author:John Dryden|Dryden]]—The Story of Acis, Polyphemus, and 
Galatea from the Thirteenth Book of Ovid's 
. L. 165. 
Out of the solar walk and Heaven's highway. 
[[Author:John Dryden|Dryden]]—Threnodia Augustalis. 
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Gray) 
 |

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 19
 | text    = High in his chariot glow'd the lamp of day.
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck.]]
 | place   = Canto I. III. L. 3. 
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}} 
 

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 20
 | text = Such words fall too often on our cold and careless ears with the triteness of long familiarity; but to Octavia {{...|3}} they seemed to be written in sunbeams. 
 | trans   = 
 | author  = Dean Farrar
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Darkness and Dawn.
 | place   = Chap. XLVI.
 | note    =
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Jortin, Tertullian}})
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 21
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Let others hail the rising sun: 
I bow to that whose course is run.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = [[Author:David Garrick|Garrick]]
 | work =  On the Death of Henry Pelham. 
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Plutarch) 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 22
 | text    = In climes beyond the solar road.
 | trans   = 
 | author  = Gray
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Progress of Poesy.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Dryden}})
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 23
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;Failing yet gracious, 
Slow pacing, soon homing, 
A patriarch that strolls 
Through the tents of his children, 
The sun as he journeys 
His round on the lower 
Ascents of the blue, 
Washes the roofs 
And the hillsides with clarity.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | trans   = 
 | author  = W. E. Henley
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Rhymes and Rhythms.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}
 
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 24
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Father of rosy day, 
No more thy clouds of incense rise; 
But waking flow'rs, 
At morning hours, 
Give out their sweets to meet thee in the skies. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Hood
 | work = Hymn to the Sun.
 | place = St. 4.
 | note =  
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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 | num = 1
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = Richard III.
 | place = Act I. Sc. 1. L. 1.
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 2
 | text = Thy eternal summer shall not fade. 
 | author = 
 | work = Sonnet XVIII.
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 3
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Heat, ma'am! it was so dreadful here, that 
I found there was nothing left for it but to 
take off my flesh and sit in my bones.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Sydney Smith
 | work = Lady Holland's Memoir.
 | place = Vol. I. P. 267.
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 4
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Then came the jolly sommer, being dight 
In a thin silken cassock, coloured greene, 
That was unlyned all, to be more light. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Spenser
 | work = Faerie Queene.
 | place = Bk. VII. Canto VII. St. 29. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 5
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;From brightening fields of ether fair-disclosed, 
Child of the Sun, refulgent Summer comes, 
In pride of youth, and felt through Nature's depth; 
He comes, attended by the sultry Hours, 
And ever-fanning breezes, on his way.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Thomson
 | work = Seasons. Summer.
 | place = L. 1. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 6
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;All-conquering Heat, O, intermit thy wrath! 
And on my throbbing temples, potent thus, 
Beam not so fierce! incessant still you flow, 
And still another fervent flood succeeds, 
Pour'd on the head profuse. In vain I sigh, 
And restless turn, and look around for night; 
Night is far off; and hotter Hours approach. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Thomson
 | work = Seasons. Summer.
 | place = L. 451. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}
 
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 7
 | text = Patient of thirst and toil, 
Son of the desert, e'en the Camel feels, 
Shot through his wither'd heart, the fiery blast. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Thomson
 | work = Seasons. Summer.
 | place = L. 965. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt topic|SUN (The) }}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 8
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;When the Sun 
Clearest shineth 
Serenest in the heaven, 
Quickly are obscured 
All over the earth 
Other stars.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = 
 | work = King Alfred.
 | place = Trans, of Boethius—Consolation.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 9
 | text = The sun, which passeth through pollutions and itself remains as pure as before.  
 | author = Bacon
 | work = Advancement of Learning.
 | place = Bk. II.
 | note = 
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Diogenes, Lyly, Taylor}}, also {{sc|Augustine}} under {{sc|Corruption}})
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 10
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;The sun, centre and sire of light, 
The keystone of the world-built arch of heaven.&lt;/poem&gt;  
 | author = Bailey
 | work = Festus.
 | place = Sc. Heaven.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 11
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;{{phantom|God's crest upon His azure shiel}}See the sun! 
God's crest upon His azure shield, the Heavens.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | trans   = 
 | author  = Bailey
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Festus.
 | place   = Sc. ''A Mountain''.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 12
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;{{phantom|}}See the gold sunshine patching, 
{{em}}And streaming and streaking across 
The gray-green oaks: and catching, 
{{em}}By its soft brown beard, the moss.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = Bailey
 | work = Festus.
 | place = Sc. The Surface. L. 409.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 13
 | text = Pleasantly, between the pelting showers, the sunshine gushes down.
 | author = Bryant
 | work = The Cloud on the Way.
 | place = L. 18.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 14
 | text = Make hay while the sun shines.
 | author = Cervantes
 | work = Don Quixote.
 | place = Pt. I. Bk. III. Ch. 11. 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 15
 | text    = The sun, too, shines into cesspools, and is not polluted. 
 | trans   = 
 | author  = Diogenes Laertius
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Bk. VI. Sec. 63.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Bacon}})
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 16
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;Behold him setting in his western skies, 
The shadows lengthening as the vapours rise.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:John Dryden|Dryden]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Absalom and Achitophel.
 | place   = St. 1. L. 268.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 17
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;The glorious lamp of heaven, the radiant sun, 
Is Nature's eye.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = [[Author:John Dryden|Dryden]]
 | work = The Story of Acis, Polyphemus, and Galatea from the Thirteenth Book of Ovid's Metamorphoses.
 | place = L. 165.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 18
 | text    = Out of the solar walk and Heaven's highway.
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:John Dryden|Dryden]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Threnodia Augustalis.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Gray) 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 19
 | text    = High in his chariot glow'd the lamp of day.
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck.]]
 | place   = Canto I. III. L. 3. 
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}} 

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 20
 | text = Such words fall too often on our cold and careless ears with the triteness of long familiarity; but to Octavia {{...|3}} they seemed to be written in sunbeams. 
 | trans   = 
 | author  = Dean Farrar
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Darkness and Dawn.
 | place   = Chap. XLVI.
 | note    =
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Jortin, Tertullian}})
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 21
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Let others hail the rising sun: 
I bow to that whose course is run.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = [[Author:David Garrick|Garrick]]
 | work =  On the Death of Henry Pelham. 
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Plutarch) 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 22
 | text    = In climes beyond the solar road.
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:Thomas Gray (1716-1771)|Gray]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Progress of Poesy.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Dryden}})
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 23
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;Failing yet gracious, 
Slow pacing, soon homing, 
A patriarch that strolls 
Through the tents of his children, 
The sun as he journeys 
His round on the lower 
Ascents of the blue, 
Washes the roofs 
And the hillsides with clarity.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | trans   = 
 | author  = W. E. Henley
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Rhymes and Rhythms.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}
 
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 24
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Father of rosy day, 
No more thy clouds of incense rise; 
But waking flow'rs, 
At morning hours, 
Give out their sweets to meet thee in the skies. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Hood
 | work = Hymn to the Sun.
 | place = St. 4.
 | note =  
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="7429" sha1="sj0ozya97lxn951jnlpq1tvoy8od4dw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh||SUN |SUN|765}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 1
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = 
 | work = Richard III.
 | place = Act I. Sc. 1. L. 1.
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 2
 | text = Thy eternal summer shall not fade. 
 | author = 
 | work = Sonnet XVIII.
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 3
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Heat, ma'am! it was so dreadful here, that 
I found there was nothing left for it but to 
take off my flesh and sit in my bones.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Sydney Smith
 | work = Lady Holland's Memoir.
 | place = Vol. I. P. 267.
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 4
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Then came the jolly sommer, being dight 
In a thin silken cassock, coloured greene, 
That was unlyned all, to be more light. 
&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Spenser
 | work = Faerie Queene.
 | place = Bk. VII. Canto VII. St. 29. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 5
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;From brightening fields of ether fair-disclosed, 
Child of the Sun, refulgent Summer comes, 
In pride of youth, and felt through Nature's depth; 
He comes, attended by the sultry Hours, 
And ever-fanning breezes, on his way.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Thomson
 | work = Seasons. Summer.
 | place = L. 1. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 6
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;All-conquering Heat, O, intermit thy wrath! 
And on my throbbing temples, potent thus, 
Beam not so fierce! incessant still you flow, 
And still another fervent flood succeeds, 
Pour'd on the head profuse. In vain I sigh, 
And restless turn, and look around for night; 
Night is far off; and hotter Hours approach. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Thomson
 | work = Seasons. Summer.
 | place = L. 451. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}
 
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 7
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Patient of thirst and toil, 
Son of the desert, e'en the Camel feels, 
Shot through his wither'd heart, the fiery blast. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Thomson
 | work = Seasons. Summer.
 | place = L. 965. 
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt topic|SUN (The) }}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 8
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;When the Sun 
Clearest shineth 
Serenest in the heaven, 
Quickly are obscured 
All over the earth 
Other stars.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = 
 | work = King Alfred.
 | place = Trans, of Boethius—Consolation.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 9
 | text = The sun, which passeth through pollutions and itself remains as pure as before.  
 | author = Bacon
 | work = Advancement of Learning.
 | place = Bk. II.
 | note = 
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Diogenes, Lyly, Taylor}}, also {{sc|Augustine}} under {{sc|Corruption}})
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 10
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;The sun, centre and sire of light, 
The keystone of the world-built arch of heaven.&lt;/poem&gt;  
 | author = Bailey
 | work = Festus.
 | place = Sc. Heaven.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 11
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;{{phantom|God's crest upon His azure shiel}}See the sun! 
God's crest upon His azure shield, the Heavens.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | trans   = 
 | author  = Bailey
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Festus.
 | place   = Sc. ''A Mountain''.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 12
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;{{phantom|}}See the gold sunshine patching, 
{{em}}And streaming and streaking across 
The gray-green oaks: and catching, 
{{em}}By its soft brown beard, the moss.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = Bailey
 | work = Festus.
 | place = Sc. The Surface. L. 409.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 13
 | text = Pleasantly, between the pelting showers, the sunshine gushes down.
 | author = Bryant
 | work = The Cloud on the Way.
 | place = L. 18.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 14
 | text = Make hay while the sun shines.
 | author = Cervantes
 | work = Don Quixote.
 | place = Pt. I. Bk. III. Ch. 11. 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}
{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 15
 | text    = The sun, too, shines into cesspools, and is not polluted. 
 | trans   = 
 | author  = Diogenes Laertius
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Bk. VI. Sec. 63.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Bacon}})
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 16
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;Behold him setting in his western skies, 
The shadows lengthening as the vapours rise.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:John Dryden|Dryden]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Absalom and Achitophel.
 | place   = St. 1. L. 268.
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 17
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;The glorious lamp of heaven, the radiant sun, 
Is Nature's eye.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = [[Author:John Dryden|Dryden]]
 | work = The Story of Acis, Polyphemus, and Galatea from the Thirteenth Book of Ovid's Metamorphoses.
 | place = L. 165.
 | note = 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 18
 | text    = Out of the solar walk and Heaven's highway.
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:John Dryden|Dryden]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Threnodia Augustalis.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Gray}}) 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 19
 | text    = High in his chariot glow'd the lamp of day.
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck.]]
 | place   = Canto I. III. L. 3. 
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}} 

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 20
 | text = Such words fall too often on our cold and careless ears with the triteness of long familiarity; but to Octavia {{...|3}} they seemed to be written in sunbeams. 
 | trans   = 
 | author  = Dean Farrar
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Darkness and Dawn.
 | place   = Chap. XLVI.
 | note    =
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Jortin, Tertullian}})
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 21
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Let others hail the rising sun: 
I bow to that whose course is run.&lt;/poem&gt; 
 | author = [[Author:David Garrick|Garrick]]
 | work =  On the Death of Henry Pelham. 
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Plutarch}}) 
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 22
 | text    = In climes beyond the solar road.
 | trans   = 
 | author  = [[Author:Thomas Gray (1716-1771)|Gray]]
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Progress of Poesy.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso = (See also {{sc|Dryden}})
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}

{{Hoyt quote
 | num     = 23
 | text    = &lt;poem&gt;Failing yet gracious, 
Slow pacing, soon homing, 
A patriarch that strolls 
Through the tents of his children, 
The sun as he journeys 
His round on the lower 
Ascents of the blue, 
Washes the roofs 
And the hillsides with clarity.&lt;/poem&gt;
 | trans   = 
 | author  = W. E. Henley
 | cog     = 
 | work    = Rhymes and Rhythms.
 | place   = 
 | note    =
 | seealso =
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
}}
 
{{Hoyt quote
 | num = 24
 | text = &lt;poem&gt;Father of rosy day, 
No more thy clouds of incense rise; 
But waking flow'rs, 
At morning hours, 
Give out their sweets to meet thee in the skies. &lt;/poem&gt;
 | author = Hood
 | work = Hymn to the Sun.
 | place = St. 4.
 | note =  
 | topic = Sun
 | page = 765
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 | previous =
 | next     = [[/Archives|Archives]], [[/Archives/2021|Last archive]]
 | shortcut = [[WS:S/H]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:H]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:RFA]]
 | notes    = The '''[[../|Scriptorium]]''' is Wikisource's community discussion page. This subpage is especially designated for requests for help from more experienced Wikisourcers. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or [{{fullurl:Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help|action=edit&amp;section=new}} a new one]. Project members can often be found in the [[liberachat:wikisource|#wikisource]] IRC channel (a [https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat?channel=#wikisource web client] is available).

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__NEWSECTIONLINK__

== [[Template:Symbol missing]] ==

This is supposed to add a specialized tracking category only if specifically mentioned, but it does so in every case. I’m not sure what the intended function is, though, so I hope someone else will make the appropriate change. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:52, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing something in the documentation, but the only if/then statement is &quot;if you have a character from a specific language or script, then choose that&quot; (e.g. Korean or Hebrew). If you insert {{tl|symbol missing}} then I think it's supposed to have the tracking category, near as I can tell. Can you give an example of a page that shouldn't be tracked but is? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]: The template will always produce ''a'' tracking category, but usually produces the ''wrong'' one: see [[Page:History of the Literature of Ancient Greece (Müller) 2ed.djvu/209]]. In this case, because there are no specified parameters, it should be put into the generic category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters]]), but is instead put in the specific category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters not in unicode]]). (In addition, “Unicode” should be capitalized.) [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:45, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Ah, I see. I think this is a non-issue, as it ''is'' in the generic one as well as the &quot;not in unicode&quot; one. For that matter, the &quot;Unicode&quot; issue is pretty trivial to fix, so I can do that now if it matters, but I also don't think that's a big issue. The template is somewhat inefficient or redundant, but everything is in the category it should be in, it's just ''also'' in a secondary and seemingly unnecessary one with a small typo. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 19:48, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:I just updated {{tl|symbol missing}} to fix this error, should hopefully behave properly now —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:04, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Colored Bulleted List ==

How do I make a bulleted list where the bullet points are colored? [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 16:58, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: CSS:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.whateverparentselector li::marker {
  color: whatevercolor;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
: Should do the trick. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:39, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== multicol template current best practices ==

I am using multicol for strict parallel columns across many pages, paragraph by paragraph (showing a translation).

1.  Is nop or nopt required when using this template?  (It seems not, since every page ends with multicol-end.)

2.  What is the best practice for paragraphs that span pages?  I have tried putting codes in the footer/header within the split (like for tables), but it does not work.  I have searched the Scriptorium archives and looked at a lot of pages/works that use multicol, trying to find examples.  The best I have found so far appears to be copying the entire rest of the paragraph (from the next page) into the footer of the page on which the paragraph begins, with a multicol-end code also in the footer, then using noinclude (?) for the same text on the next page (I may have that wrong).  Is this really the best way?  Thanks for any suggestions, and especially any links to pages using a particular technique, so that I may copy/paste. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 18:18, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]],
:Regarding point 1. Multicol breaks paragraphs between pages, whether you want it to or not (as you have seen). Thus, you do not need nop/nopt.
:Regarding point 2. I am not sure of the best practices for multicol per se, but using noinclude and includeonly should work. However, neither needs to be placed in the footer. I have provided an example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/99]]. Note also that hws/hwe doesn't help with noinclude/includeonly, and the hyphenated word has to be handled manually (as in the example). I also recommend transcluding as you go, to make sure this is all working, and to identify other pages in the text where noinclude/includeonly should be added.
:For reference, I believe the only way to avoid copy pasting text from page to page would be to use a raw html table, rather than the multicol environment. If you would prefer to do this, I could help set something up, but otherwise, the above should work.
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:28, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you so much!  I will study what you have done tomorrow.  I thought perhaps the &quot;answer&quot; was tables, but I am not very good at tables.  I have been transcluding at [[User:Laura1822/sandbox3]]. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 00:43, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
:::P.S. @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I did a little more testing, and you can probably save yourself some time by placing half the duplicate text in either the header/footer (as you said in your original post), to save you typing out the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; tags. Then you need only add the includeonly tags on the previous/next page. I have added another example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/97]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]], placing text from djvu/97 into the footer, and using includeonly on the next page (djvu/98), noting in this case that spaces should appear after the last word inside the includeonly tags, not before the first word outside the includeonly tags. I also modified the example on djvu/98 and djvu/99, this time moving text from djvu/99 into the header, and using includeonly on the previous page (djvu/98). Hopefully this will be slightly faster. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:37, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you.  I am studying.  I did experiment myself just a little in the paragraph from 98-99, because I saw that there is an extra blank line in the transcluded text.  I wondered if it was because the multicol-related templates were outside the include-related tags, but when I enclosed them all within the tag, it made no difference that I could see.  I still don't quite understand how it's all supposed to work, but I will study it some more.  Thank you for helping me. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 12:24, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I am not sure if there was an entire blank line, but I agree that there was a small gap in the 1px black line which runs along the center of the multicol environment. What I should have done (and which fixes the issue), is to start and end the multicolumn environment on the same page (so either duplicate all the content from the first page to the second, or duplicate all the content from the second page to the first; and if the multicol would have to span three pages, then you need a table, as far as I am aware). I have accordingly corrected the djvu 98-99 example (the djvu 97-98 example was already fine). Apologies for any past confusion, as I do not use multicol all that much. Note that you also want to place the &lt;nowiki&gt;line=1px solid&lt;/nowiki&gt; arguments in the multicol-section template calls in most cases. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:13, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you, I just figured out that last bit about the vertical line yesterday.  I use inverted colors so I thought I just wasn't seeing it because it was black on black, but it turns out that I simply misunderstood what I saw on a page in another book that I was copying from.  I will study what you changed.  I will get it all figured out eventually! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== include ==

Can anyone please direct me to a Help page that will explain the purpose of the tags includeonly, noinclude, and onlyinclude, explaining their purposes and how and why they are intended to be used? [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: We have no such page in WS, but [[w:WP:NOINCLUDE]] covers the three of them. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:14, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you!!!! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 16:29, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

== Continuing a TOC across multiple pages with TOC row template ==

I had an issue with the table of contents formatting for pages [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/18|18]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/19|19]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/20|20]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/191|191]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/192|192]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/193|193]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/194|194]], and [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/195|195]] of my transcription for ''[[The Life, Studies, and Works of Benjamin West]]''. I used the TOC row 1-dot-1 template, but couldn't figure out how to extend it over different pages when the table of contents continues. I'm sure there's a way to do this, but I don't have that knowledge. Any help would be appreciated. [[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]] ([[User talk:JohnSon12a|talk]]) 22:27, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: AFAIK there isn't really a clean way to make a single line continue across pages. The approach you took of moving the end of it to the previous page seems good to me. Though you should use a comment (&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!-- text here --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;) for such notes, rather than putting them visible in the content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:31, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
*[[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]]: I’m not sure that it’s possible with the TOC row family of templates, but if you switch to dtpl you can! For the part on the bottom of the first page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/top'' in the text body and ''dotted TOC page listing/suspend'' in the footer, and then on the top of the second page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/resume'' in the header and ''dotted TOC page listing/bottom'' in the body. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:45, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
*: {{tl|dtpl}} really shouldn't be used, because it gives unreasonably large outputs. See [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2022#Orley_Farm_Contents+Illustrations_Lists] for size comparisons. Why? dtpl makes one separate table for each row, plus its dot leader hack is noticeably worse than others (putting {{tl|gap}}s in there).
*: IMO the best solution that would include keeping content on its page, would be taking the first half of the markup of {{tl|TOC row 1-dot-1}}, putting it at the end of the first page, and putting the second half of the invocation at the top of the second page. ''I could try and make a TOC row template to do this, one of these days.''' — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:54, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== The Mythology of All Races ==

Dear Friends.

I just looked at The Mythology of All Races. It seems to me that all the volumes are out of copyrights, yet there are many tomes that have red links. As a person that kind of likes mythologies, this makes me sad. Could I do something about this? Still, the books look kinda longish, I believe I would need to manually check every page, and I have some other projects right now to keep me busy, thus, I cannot promise anything in my current situation.

How much, do you think, as experienced users, time would be needed to be spent in order to publish all the tomes of this collection? And how hard and time-consuming is following all the steps in adding new content to Wikisources?

Best wishes!

-- [[User:Kaworu1992|Kaworu1992]] ([[User talk:Kaworu1992|talk]]) 00:02, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: It depends on how much time you have daily, but I'd say one or two weeks per 400-page volume, so if one person were to focus only on this it would perhaps take somewhere between two and four months. (This is a ''very'' rough approximation; the actual time something takes also depends on IRL events, on complexity of formatting, on motivation, on OCR quality, and whatnot. The question of &quot;how long will this take&quot; is really hard to answer.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Issue with imported file ==

I am attempting to create an index for ''The Making of Americans'' by Gertrude Stein. I used IA-upload to create a .djvu located at [[:File:The_Making_of_Americans,_1925.djvu]]. The file currently is listed as having 1,000×1,500 px. dimensions on Wikimedia Commons but is listed as having 0×0 px. dimensions on Wikisource. I do not know why this happened or how to fix it, and there does not seem to be documentation about this. Please help.

[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]] ([[User talk:Alef.person|talk]]) 00:15, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

:You may need to clear your cache.  It is displaying correctly for me. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:49, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The 0x0 bug that DJVUs get (as opposed to the PDF-specific one) disappears quite fase; probably the servers emptied their cache in the two-ish hours.
:: @[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]]: in general the way to fix this is to purge the server's cache; for this you can use the &quot;UTCLiveClock&quot; gadget from [[c:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:34, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== Search *inside* all works by author? ==

Let's say I heard of a saying (eg. &quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;) attributed to a particular author (&quot;Giambattista Vico&quot;), and I want to find out where and if the author himself actually uses this expression. I would search for &quot;ricorsi&quot;, but global full-text search is way too much information to sift through, and the only other option is manually searching all works, which is still very time-consuming.

Any ideas for searching all works all at once? [[User:AddyLockPool|AddyLockPool]] ([[User talk:AddyLockPool|talk]]) 10:35, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
: I'd do {{tqi|insource:&quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;}}, and then turn on all namespaces. Ought to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:55, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

== I think I need two new TOC-row templates ==

Per my current [[User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox|sandbox]] example, I'm trying to format a TOC with the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; templates, and I can get really close to the source format, but I'm encountering a couple hangups. Specifically, I'm using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-1-1-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and I don't know how to how to get the 2nd and 3rd columns center aligned, like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-c-c-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, which doesn't exist.

But that one's just the header row, so maybe there's another workaround that doesn't involve the creation of a 56th template.

The other hangup is the need for dots and left-alignment in the 2nd column, via something like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-ldot-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;. The closest existing template I could find is [[Template:TOC row 1-l-dot-1|&lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;]].

I'm open to any kind of suggestions. Thanks everybody! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:40, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: IMO, this doesn't warrant new templates. Just use CSS. For alignment, you can use index CSS to realign everything. For instance: &lt;code&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(2), .wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(3) { text-align:center }&lt;/code&gt;. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:13, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Is there any documentation here that helps with explaining how to do this? CSS is great for those who know how to parse and write it, as well as when there are good examples in the documentation (like adding AuxTOC coloring to a TOC-row template), but in other cases finding a template or combination of templates is more straightforward. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 14:12, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Okay. How do I access the index.css for a page? Should I insert your code example into [[Template:TOC_templates/styles.css]]? [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::It's at Index:&lt;var&gt;Name of work&lt;/var&gt;/styles.css. The easiest way to get there is to edit any page, scroll to the bottom and you'll see the CSS linked. If there's nothing there (which is true for 90%+ of works), it will be a red link. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:57, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Even easier, when you're in the index page, at the top left, next to &quot;index&quot; and &quot;discussion&quot; there is &quot;styles&quot;, which leads to the index css. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:08, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Those are incredibly straight-forward instructions, thank you both so much! I tried reading through the page on Wikipedia about TemplateStyles[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TemplateStyles], which &quot;work on all types of pages, not just templates, despite the name.&quot; I couldn't understand anything there without studying a bunch of other material. This ought to work on a sandbox page, so I can tinker with it and learn by doing, now. Thanks again!! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 05:11, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Happy to help. Not sure what your proficiency is with CSS, but if you need help with something, let me know: I'm pretty okay at tinkering with CSS, particularly prior to 4.0. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 05:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

The first template has been handled. The second template has me stumped bad. I've looked at several template, style.css pages, and help pages, but I still have no clue how to add dots to &lt;nowiki&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-l-dot-1 td:nth-child(2)&lt;/nowiki&gt;. It looks like several wrapper classes were needed to implement the dots in the first place, so maybe it's not as easy to replicate them in another td element. Or if it is easy, I have no clue how to identify the parent class/div names, nor the inheritance syntax for applying it. [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 00:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Weird symbols ==

Right before the title of many poems of [[Index:XLI poems.djvu]], there is a weird sort of symbol (ex [[Page:XLI poems.djvu/15]]). It's never the same. To me, it looks like a hastily hand-drawn circle. Given this, and that its position varies (horizontally close to the center but not centered), I think that it is an annotation of a librarian or whatnot, post-publication. And so I've concluded that these shouldn't be transcribed. Do you agree? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Given the inconsistent shapes, usage, and placement, I'd agree with the assumption that they aren't part of the work. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:Agreed that this seems to be someone scribbling in the book. I'd say assume that until you know otherwise (e.g. if you find another scan that has it). —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:46, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059899487&amp;seq=266&amp;q1=+the+sky+was+can+dy is a reprint of the poem a couple years later, and shows no sign of any such mark.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 02:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Case closed. 🙅 —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to everyone for the input! — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:49, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::You do a lot of great work around here and are very helpful. Let me thank you as well. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:55, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Problems with transcluded texts ==

Referring to: [[The Chinese language and how to learn it/The Written Language#]]

There are a large number of errors - figures turned into random modern characters, spaces added into words, characters deleted from words and spaces inserted into their places, chinese characters rendered as modern QWERTY symbols, etc.

In non-transcluded texts, I'd mark the page as problematic. What's the protocol for pointing out problems with a page (problems which the reader doesn't have the skill/knowledge to fix)? [[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] ([[User talk:Grayautumnday|talk]]) 17:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:This chapter was transcluded too early as some the pages are not proofread. Click on the page links in the left margin of the text for the problem pages and mark them as problematic in the Page: namespace. This will be represented in the status bar at the top of the transcluded text. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Documents with numbered pargraphs ==

I have a document where the paragraphs are numbered throughout the entire document; is there set (or recommended) way to implement these numbers?

Example page with the numbered paragraphs:[[Page:The_collapse_of_NATM_tunnels_at_Heathrow_Airport.pdf/9]] -- [[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:''(Wording error in original question fixed)'' --[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:51, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Hello @[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]],
::Two options come to mind. The first would be to implement these numbers with sidenotes, e.g. [[:Template:Sidenote]]. The problem is, sidenotes are trouble from a technical point of view, and the likelihood that they render correctly in both page and namespace is probably low. If you see my example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/9]], to reduce the left margin below the 11em default has led to the line numbers overflowing left (into the wiki toolbar links on the left). This will (sort of) correct itself once transcluded, although may look worse for wide layouts (e.g. layout 1). The other option, see example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/10]] is to use [[:Template:Pline]]. Adjusting the (now small) margin might not look so great either, but at least it isn't (at present) colliding with any text. It may also be possible to apply changes across the entire work with some custom css styles, if you are interested in pursuing the [[:Template:Pline]] option (e.g. changing the color or margin - please ask if unsure how to go about this).
::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 05:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Other possibility: a table. Where the left column is the para numbers, and the right column is the para. For unnumeberd paras (like titles) you can just leave the left cell empty. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:59, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The template {{tl|numbered div/s}} might be of help here. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:11, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: The issue would be with the margins: except by putting all paras in a numbered div even when they don't have a number, the unnumbered divs will be missing the left margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:: A table with the necessary styling templates could take the work beyond the expansion limit. Personally, I would use {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} on the single digit numbers for alighment. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 20:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Given no formatting would need to be added to the table from what I can see, I think it wouldn't go above PEIS. The text added per para would be |-\n|[a few digits, less than 10]||. So about 16 chars per para. That's shorter than a single {{tl|fqm}} invocation (109 chars). Styling can be done through index css.
::: Plus, {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} would mean not having the margins on the whole paragraphs, no? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Looking over the options folks suggested, using [[:Template:Pline]] seems like it might be the simplest approach. Bonus if the look of the Pline numbers can be modified.--[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 04:51, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: They have the css class {{code|wst-pline}}, so you can target them in index CSS with something like {{code|.wst-pline { color: inherit; font-size:inherit }}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:54, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: There is also {{tl|*!/s}}{{tl|*!/i}}{{tl|*!/e}} for doing block based lists. I wrote these to work around some limitations of wikitext lists, but for a 'list' of numbered paragraphs it would be a 'use-case'. You do have to mark the start of each item though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

== Rotated book ==

Most of the content pages of ''[https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000108920392&amp;seq=16 Christmas tree]'' are turned sideways (as in, the text's put in landscape rather than portrait mode).

Do you think that the rotation is part of the content, or was it just a technical device to allow for larger text? And so, should they be transcribed {{rotate|-90|rotated}} (which is technically doable) or normally ? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:What would be cool is if it had a button that would show the as published layout. [[:Index:Christmas Tree-EEC.djvu]] Did the book that was scanned have a silver page?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:10, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Maybe change the way a {{tl|class block}} works?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:12, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Technically, there wouldn't be an issue. I'm wondering on whether we ''should''. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:21, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]], a side note for future cases: it's nice, but don't bother generating files for me; I prefer to do it myself because of my OCR setup and a few other things; and that requires going through PDF first; so I don't use preexisting DJVUs.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: [[User:Alien333|Alien 333]]: Sorry for the (what for me would have been an) annoyance. I think it should be okay to upload in the same namespace; you know of the upload a new version link on the commons page?  I also did some images.  I have a pretty good cover and that first image, with the stars and such, I brightened the faded colors and I removed that underline from the &quot;C&quot;, because I think it is a librarian mark, just in red.  There seems to be an &quot;underlining the first letter of the title and first letter in the last name ritual&quot; that many libraries practice(d).  I am tempted to upload my image into your images namespace, but see the annoyance apology.

:::I am going to upload the cover and put that onto the header, but that can be easily reverted away.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:37, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Based on the shape of the cover and the how the scan looks, I think it was printed {{rotate|-90|rotated}}. That said, I think it would look and read better on screen if transcribed non-rotated -- the same way we handle photos that are printed &quot;turned.&quot; &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 18:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Good point on the images - Thanks. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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 | notes    = The '''[[../|Scriptorium]]''' is Wikisource's community discussion page. This subpage is especially designated for requests for help from more experienced Wikisourcers. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or [{{fullurl:Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help|action=edit&amp;section=new}} a new one]. Project members can often be found in the [[liberachat:wikisource|#wikisource]] IRC channel (a [https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat?channel=#wikisource web client] is available).

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== [[Template:Symbol missing]] ==

This is supposed to add a specialized tracking category only if specifically mentioned, but it does so in every case. I’m not sure what the intended function is, though, so I hope someone else will make the appropriate change. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:52, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing something in the documentation, but the only if/then statement is &quot;if you have a character from a specific language or script, then choose that&quot; (e.g. Korean or Hebrew). If you insert {{tl|symbol missing}} then I think it's supposed to have the tracking category, near as I can tell. Can you give an example of a page that shouldn't be tracked but is? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]: The template will always produce ''a'' tracking category, but usually produces the ''wrong'' one: see [[Page:History of the Literature of Ancient Greece (Müller) 2ed.djvu/209]]. In this case, because there are no specified parameters, it should be put into the generic category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters]]), but is instead put in the specific category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters not in unicode]]). (In addition, “Unicode” should be capitalized.) [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:45, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Ah, I see. I think this is a non-issue, as it ''is'' in the generic one as well as the &quot;not in unicode&quot; one. For that matter, the &quot;Unicode&quot; issue is pretty trivial to fix, so I can do that now if it matters, but I also don't think that's a big issue. The template is somewhat inefficient or redundant, but everything is in the category it should be in, it's just ''also'' in a secondary and seemingly unnecessary one with a small typo. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 19:48, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:I just updated {{tl|symbol missing}} to fix this error, should hopefully behave properly now —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:04, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Colored Bulleted List ==

How do I make a bulleted list where the bullet points are colored? [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 16:58, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: CSS:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.whateverparentselector li::marker {
  color: whatevercolor;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
: Should do the trick. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:39, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== multicol template current best practices ==

I am using multicol for strict parallel columns across many pages, paragraph by paragraph (showing a translation).

1.  Is nop or nopt required when using this template?  (It seems not, since every page ends with multicol-end.)

2.  What is the best practice for paragraphs that span pages?  I have tried putting codes in the footer/header within the split (like for tables), but it does not work.  I have searched the Scriptorium archives and looked at a lot of pages/works that use multicol, trying to find examples.  The best I have found so far appears to be copying the entire rest of the paragraph (from the next page) into the footer of the page on which the paragraph begins, with a multicol-end code also in the footer, then using noinclude (?) for the same text on the next page (I may have that wrong).  Is this really the best way?  Thanks for any suggestions, and especially any links to pages using a particular technique, so that I may copy/paste. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 18:18, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]],
:Regarding point 1. Multicol breaks paragraphs between pages, whether you want it to or not (as you have seen). Thus, you do not need nop/nopt.
:Regarding point 2. I am not sure of the best practices for multicol per se, but using noinclude and includeonly should work. However, neither needs to be placed in the footer. I have provided an example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/99]]. Note also that hws/hwe doesn't help with noinclude/includeonly, and the hyphenated word has to be handled manually (as in the example). I also recommend transcluding as you go, to make sure this is all working, and to identify other pages in the text where noinclude/includeonly should be added.
:For reference, I believe the only way to avoid copy pasting text from page to page would be to use a raw html table, rather than the multicol environment. If you would prefer to do this, I could help set something up, but otherwise, the above should work.
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:28, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you so much!  I will study what you have done tomorrow.  I thought perhaps the &quot;answer&quot; was tables, but I am not very good at tables.  I have been transcluding at [[User:Laura1822/sandbox3]]. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 00:43, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
:::P.S. @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I did a little more testing, and you can probably save yourself some time by placing half the duplicate text in either the header/footer (as you said in your original post), to save you typing out the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; tags. Then you need only add the includeonly tags on the previous/next page. I have added another example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/97]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]], placing text from djvu/97 into the footer, and using includeonly on the next page (djvu/98), noting in this case that spaces should appear after the last word inside the includeonly tags, not before the first word outside the includeonly tags. I also modified the example on djvu/98 and djvu/99, this time moving text from djvu/99 into the header, and using includeonly on the previous page (djvu/98). Hopefully this will be slightly faster. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:37, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you.  I am studying.  I did experiment myself just a little in the paragraph from 98-99, because I saw that there is an extra blank line in the transcluded text.  I wondered if it was because the multicol-related templates were outside the include-related tags, but when I enclosed them all within the tag, it made no difference that I could see.  I still don't quite understand how it's all supposed to work, but I will study it some more.  Thank you for helping me. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 12:24, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I am not sure if there was an entire blank line, but I agree that there was a small gap in the 1px black line which runs along the center of the multicol environment. What I should have done (and which fixes the issue), is to start and end the multicolumn environment on the same page (so either duplicate all the content from the first page to the second, or duplicate all the content from the second page to the first; and if the multicol would have to span three pages, then you need a table, as far as I am aware). I have accordingly corrected the djvu 98-99 example (the djvu 97-98 example was already fine). Apologies for any past confusion, as I do not use multicol all that much. Note that you also want to place the &lt;nowiki&gt;line=1px solid&lt;/nowiki&gt; arguments in the multicol-section template calls in most cases. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:13, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you, I just figured out that last bit about the vertical line yesterday.  I use inverted colors so I thought I just wasn't seeing it because it was black on black, but it turns out that I simply misunderstood what I saw on a page in another book that I was copying from.  I will study what you changed.  I will get it all figured out eventually! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== include ==

Can anyone please direct me to a Help page that will explain the purpose of the tags includeonly, noinclude, and onlyinclude, explaining their purposes and how and why they are intended to be used? [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: We have no such page in WS, but [[w:WP:NOINCLUDE]] covers the three of them. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:14, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you!!!! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 16:29, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

== Continuing a TOC across multiple pages with TOC row template ==

I had an issue with the table of contents formatting for pages [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/18|18]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/19|19]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/20|20]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/191|191]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/192|192]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/193|193]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/194|194]], and [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/195|195]] of my transcription for ''[[The Life, Studies, and Works of Benjamin West]]''. I used the TOC row 1-dot-1 template, but couldn't figure out how to extend it over different pages when the table of contents continues. I'm sure there's a way to do this, but I don't have that knowledge. Any help would be appreciated. [[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]] ([[User talk:JohnSon12a|talk]]) 22:27, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: AFAIK there isn't really a clean way to make a single line continue across pages. The approach you took of moving the end of it to the previous page seems good to me. Though you should use a comment (&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!-- text here --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;) for such notes, rather than putting them visible in the content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:31, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
*[[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]]: I’m not sure that it’s possible with the TOC row family of templates, but if you switch to dtpl you can! For the part on the bottom of the first page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/top'' in the text body and ''dotted TOC page listing/suspend'' in the footer, and then on the top of the second page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/resume'' in the header and ''dotted TOC page listing/bottom'' in the body. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:45, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
*: {{tl|dtpl}} really shouldn't be used, because it gives unreasonably large outputs. See [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2022#Orley_Farm_Contents+Illustrations_Lists] for size comparisons. Why? dtpl makes one separate table for each row, plus its dot leader hack is noticeably worse than others (putting {{tl|gap}}s in there).
*: IMO the best solution that would include keeping content on its page, would be taking the first half of the markup of {{tl|TOC row 1-dot-1}}, putting it at the end of the first page, and putting the second half of the invocation at the top of the second page. ''I could try and make a TOC row template to do this, one of these days.''' — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:54, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== The Mythology of All Races ==

Dear Friends.

I just looked at The Mythology of All Races. It seems to me that all the volumes are out of copyrights, yet there are many tomes that have red links. As a person that kind of likes mythologies, this makes me sad. Could I do something about this? Still, the books look kinda longish, I believe I would need to manually check every page, and I have some other projects right now to keep me busy, thus, I cannot promise anything in my current situation.

How much, do you think, as experienced users, time would be needed to be spent in order to publish all the tomes of this collection? And how hard and time-consuming is following all the steps in adding new content to Wikisources?

Best wishes!

-- [[User:Kaworu1992|Kaworu1992]] ([[User talk:Kaworu1992|talk]]) 00:02, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: It depends on how much time you have daily, but I'd say one or two weeks per 400-page volume, so if one person were to focus only on this it would perhaps take somewhere between two and four months. (This is a ''very'' rough approximation; the actual time something takes also depends on IRL events, on complexity of formatting, on motivation, on OCR quality, and whatnot. The question of &quot;how long will this take&quot; is really hard to answer.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Issue with imported file ==

I am attempting to create an index for ''The Making of Americans'' by Gertrude Stein. I used IA-upload to create a .djvu located at [[:File:The_Making_of_Americans,_1925.djvu]]. The file currently is listed as having 1,000×1,500 px. dimensions on Wikimedia Commons but is listed as having 0×0 px. dimensions on Wikisource. I do not know why this happened or how to fix it, and there does not seem to be documentation about this. Please help.

[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]] ([[User talk:Alef.person|talk]]) 00:15, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

:You may need to clear your cache.  It is displaying correctly for me. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:49, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The 0x0 bug that DJVUs get (as opposed to the PDF-specific one) disappears quite fase; probably the servers emptied their cache in the two-ish hours.
:: @[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]]: in general the way to fix this is to purge the server's cache; for this you can use the &quot;UTCLiveClock&quot; gadget from [[c:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:34, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== Search *inside* all works by author? ==

Let's say I heard of a saying (eg. &quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;) attributed to a particular author (&quot;Giambattista Vico&quot;), and I want to find out where and if the author himself actually uses this expression. I would search for &quot;ricorsi&quot;, but global full-text search is way too much information to sift through, and the only other option is manually searching all works, which is still very time-consuming.

Any ideas for searching all works all at once? [[User:AddyLockPool|AddyLockPool]] ([[User talk:AddyLockPool|talk]]) 10:35, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
: I'd do {{tqi|insource:&quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;}}, and then turn on all namespaces. Ought to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:55, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

== I think I need two new TOC-row templates ==

Per my current [[User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox|sandbox]] example, I'm trying to format a TOC with the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; templates, and I can get really close to the source format, but I'm encountering a couple hangups. Specifically, I'm using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-1-1-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and I don't know how to how to get the 2nd and 3rd columns center aligned, like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-c-c-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, which doesn't exist.

But that one's just the header row, so maybe there's another workaround that doesn't involve the creation of a 56th template.

The other hangup is the need for dots and left-alignment in the 2nd column, via something like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-ldot-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;. The closest existing template I could find is [[Template:TOC row 1-l-dot-1|&lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;]].

I'm open to any kind of suggestions. Thanks everybody! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:40, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: IMO, this doesn't warrant new templates. Just use CSS. For alignment, you can use index CSS to realign everything. For instance: &lt;code&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(2), .wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(3) { text-align:center }&lt;/code&gt;. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:13, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Is there any documentation here that helps with explaining how to do this? CSS is great for those who know how to parse and write it, as well as when there are good examples in the documentation (like adding AuxTOC coloring to a TOC-row template), but in other cases finding a template or combination of templates is more straightforward. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 14:12, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Okay. How do I access the index.css for a page? Should I insert your code example into [[Template:TOC_templates/styles.css]]? [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::It's at Index:&lt;var&gt;Name of work&lt;/var&gt;/styles.css. The easiest way to get there is to edit any page, scroll to the bottom and you'll see the CSS linked. If there's nothing there (which is true for 90%+ of works), it will be a red link. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:57, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Even easier, when you're in the index page, at the top left, next to &quot;index&quot; and &quot;discussion&quot; there is &quot;styles&quot;, which leads to the index css. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:08, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Those are incredibly straight-forward instructions, thank you both so much! I tried reading through the page on Wikipedia about TemplateStyles[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TemplateStyles], which &quot;work on all types of pages, not just templates, despite the name.&quot; I couldn't understand anything there without studying a bunch of other material. This ought to work on a sandbox page, so I can tinker with it and learn by doing, now. Thanks again!! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 05:11, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Happy to help. Not sure what your proficiency is with CSS, but if you need help with something, let me know: I'm pretty okay at tinkering with CSS, particularly prior to 4.0. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 05:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

The first template has been handled. The second template has me stumped bad. I've looked at several template, style.css pages, and help pages, but I still have no clue how to add dots to &lt;nowiki&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-l-dot-1 td:nth-child(2)&lt;/nowiki&gt;. It looks like several wrapper classes were needed to implement the dots in the first place, so maybe it's not as easy to replicate them in another td element. Or if it is easy, I have no clue how to identify the parent class/div names, nor the inheritance syntax for applying it. [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 00:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Weird symbols ==

Right before the title of many poems of [[Index:XLI poems.djvu]], there is a weird sort of symbol (ex [[Page:XLI poems.djvu/15]]). It's never the same. To me, it looks like a hastily hand-drawn circle. Given this, and that its position varies (horizontally close to the center but not centered), I think that it is an annotation of a librarian or whatnot, post-publication. And so I've concluded that these shouldn't be transcribed. Do you agree? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Given the inconsistent shapes, usage, and placement, I'd agree with the assumption that they aren't part of the work. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:Agreed that this seems to be someone scribbling in the book. I'd say assume that until you know otherwise (e.g. if you find another scan that has it). —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:46, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059899487&amp;seq=266&amp;q1=+the+sky+was+can+dy is a reprint of the poem a couple years later, and shows no sign of any such mark.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 02:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Case closed. 🙅 —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to everyone for the input! — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:49, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::You do a lot of great work around here and are very helpful. Let me thank you as well. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:55, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Problems with transcluded texts ==

Referring to: [[The Chinese language and how to learn it/The Written Language#]]

There are a large number of errors - figures turned into random modern characters, spaces added into words, characters deleted from words and spaces inserted into their places, chinese characters rendered as modern QWERTY symbols, etc.

In non-transcluded texts, I'd mark the page as problematic. What's the protocol for pointing out problems with a page (problems which the reader doesn't have the skill/knowledge to fix)? [[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] ([[User talk:Grayautumnday|talk]]) 17:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:This chapter was transcluded too early as some the pages are not proofread. Click on the page links in the left margin of the text for the problem pages and mark them as problematic in the Page: namespace. This will be represented in the status bar at the top of the transcluded text. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Documents with numbered pargraphs ==

I have a document where the paragraphs are numbered throughout the entire document; is there set (or recommended) way to implement these numbers?

Example page with the numbered paragraphs:[[Page:The_collapse_of_NATM_tunnels_at_Heathrow_Airport.pdf/9]] -- [[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:''(Wording error in original question fixed)'' --[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:51, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Hello @[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]],
::Two options come to mind. The first would be to implement these numbers with sidenotes, e.g. [[:Template:Sidenote]]. The problem is, sidenotes are trouble from a technical point of view, and the likelihood that they render correctly in both page and namespace is probably low. If you see my example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/9]], to reduce the left margin below the 11em default has led to the line numbers overflowing left (into the wiki toolbar links on the left). This will (sort of) correct itself once transcluded, although may look worse for wide layouts (e.g. layout 1). The other option, see example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/10]] is to use [[:Template:Pline]]. Adjusting the (now small) margin might not look so great either, but at least it isn't (at present) colliding with any text. It may also be possible to apply changes across the entire work with some custom css styles, if you are interested in pursuing the [[:Template:Pline]] option (e.g. changing the color or margin - please ask if unsure how to go about this).
::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 05:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Other possibility: a table. Where the left column is the para numbers, and the right column is the para. For unnumeberd paras (like titles) you can just leave the left cell empty. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:59, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The template {{tl|numbered div/s}} might be of help here. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:11, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: The issue would be with the margins: except by putting all paras in a numbered div even when they don't have a number, the unnumbered divs will be missing the left margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:: A table with the necessary styling templates could take the work beyond the expansion limit. Personally, I would use {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} on the single digit numbers for alighment. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 20:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Given no formatting would need to be added to the table from what I can see, I think it wouldn't go above PEIS. The text added per para would be |-\n|[a few digits, less than 10]||. So about 16 chars per para. That's shorter than a single {{tl|fqm}} invocation (109 chars). Styling can be done through index css.
::: Plus, {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} would mean not having the margins on the whole paragraphs, no? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Looking over the options folks suggested, using [[:Template:Pline]] seems like it might be the simplest approach. Bonus if the look of the Pline numbers can be modified.--[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 04:51, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: They have the css class {{code|wst-pline}}, so you can target them in index CSS with something like {{code|.wst-pline { color: inherit; font-size:inherit }}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:54, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: There is also {{tl|*!/s}}{{tl|*!/i}}{{tl|*!/e}} for doing block based lists. I wrote these to work around some limitations of wikitext lists, but for a 'list' of numbered paragraphs it would be a 'use-case'. You do have to mark the start of each item though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

== Rotated book ==

Most of the content pages of ''[https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000108920392&amp;seq=16 Christmas tree]'' are turned sideways (as in, the text's put in landscape rather than portrait mode).

Do you think that the rotation is part of the content, or was it just a technical device to allow for larger text? And so, should they be transcribed {{rotate|-90|rotated}} (which is technically doable) or normally ? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:What would be cool is if it had a button that would show the as published layout. [[:Index:Christmas Tree-EEC.djvu]] Did the book that was scanned have a silver page?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:10, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Maybe change the way a {{tl|class block}} works?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:12, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Technically, there wouldn't be an issue. I'm wondering on whether we ''should''. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:21, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]], a side note for future cases: it's nice, but don't bother generating files for me; I prefer to do it myself because of my OCR setup and a few other things; and that requires going through PDF first; so I don't use preexisting DJVUs.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: [[User:Alien333|Alien 333]]: Sorry for the (what for me would have been an) annoyance. I think it should be okay to upload in the same namespace; you know of the upload a new version link on the commons page?  I also did some images.  I have a pretty good cover and that first image, with the stars and such, I brightened the faded colors and I removed that underline from the &quot;C&quot;, because I think it is a librarian mark, just in red.  There seems to be an &quot;underlining the first letter of the title and first letter in the last name ritual&quot; that many libraries practice(d).  I am tempted to upload my image into your images namespace, but see the annoyance apology.

:::I am going to upload the cover and put that onto the header, but that can be easily reverted away.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:37, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: It's not an annoyance, no; it's just I thought you could spare yourself the effort since I'm not going to use them. If you want, you can reupload the illustrations under the same title if you've got better ones; it's specifically for the whole scans (the djvus) that I really like to do them myself. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 13 June 2025 (UTC)


:Based on the shape of the cover and the how the scan looks, I think it was printed {{rotate|-90|rotated}}. That said, I think it would look and read better on screen if transcribed non-rotated -- the same way we handle photos that are printed &quot;turned.&quot; &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 18:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Good point on the images - Thanks. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2hla2fw6sw0qqub6gjzs81vazt9hvqz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131753</id>
      <parentid>15131705</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:10:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>RaboKarbakian</username>
        <id>2427564</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Rotated book */</comment>
      <origin>15131753</origin>
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== [[Template:Symbol missing]] ==

This is supposed to add a specialized tracking category only if specifically mentioned, but it does so in every case. I’m not sure what the intended function is, though, so I hope someone else will make the appropriate change. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:52, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing something in the documentation, but the only if/then statement is &quot;if you have a character from a specific language or script, then choose that&quot; (e.g. Korean or Hebrew). If you insert {{tl|symbol missing}} then I think it's supposed to have the tracking category, near as I can tell. Can you give an example of a page that shouldn't be tracked but is? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]: The template will always produce ''a'' tracking category, but usually produces the ''wrong'' one: see [[Page:History of the Literature of Ancient Greece (Müller) 2ed.djvu/209]]. In this case, because there are no specified parameters, it should be put into the generic category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters]]), but is instead put in the specific category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters not in unicode]]). (In addition, “Unicode” should be capitalized.) [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:45, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Ah, I see. I think this is a non-issue, as it ''is'' in the generic one as well as the &quot;not in unicode&quot; one. For that matter, the &quot;Unicode&quot; issue is pretty trivial to fix, so I can do that now if it matters, but I also don't think that's a big issue. The template is somewhat inefficient or redundant, but everything is in the category it should be in, it's just ''also'' in a secondary and seemingly unnecessary one with a small typo. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 19:48, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:I just updated {{tl|symbol missing}} to fix this error, should hopefully behave properly now —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:04, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Colored Bulleted List ==

How do I make a bulleted list where the bullet points are colored? [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 16:58, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: CSS:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.whateverparentselector li::marker {
  color: whatevercolor;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
: Should do the trick. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:39, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== multicol template current best practices ==

I am using multicol for strict parallel columns across many pages, paragraph by paragraph (showing a translation).

1.  Is nop or nopt required when using this template?  (It seems not, since every page ends with multicol-end.)

2.  What is the best practice for paragraphs that span pages?  I have tried putting codes in the footer/header within the split (like for tables), but it does not work.  I have searched the Scriptorium archives and looked at a lot of pages/works that use multicol, trying to find examples.  The best I have found so far appears to be copying the entire rest of the paragraph (from the next page) into the footer of the page on which the paragraph begins, with a multicol-end code also in the footer, then using noinclude (?) for the same text on the next page (I may have that wrong).  Is this really the best way?  Thanks for any suggestions, and especially any links to pages using a particular technique, so that I may copy/paste. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 18:18, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]],
:Regarding point 1. Multicol breaks paragraphs between pages, whether you want it to or not (as you have seen). Thus, you do not need nop/nopt.
:Regarding point 2. I am not sure of the best practices for multicol per se, but using noinclude and includeonly should work. However, neither needs to be placed in the footer. I have provided an example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/99]]. Note also that hws/hwe doesn't help with noinclude/includeonly, and the hyphenated word has to be handled manually (as in the example). I also recommend transcluding as you go, to make sure this is all working, and to identify other pages in the text where noinclude/includeonly should be added.
:For reference, I believe the only way to avoid copy pasting text from page to page would be to use a raw html table, rather than the multicol environment. If you would prefer to do this, I could help set something up, but otherwise, the above should work.
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:28, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you so much!  I will study what you have done tomorrow.  I thought perhaps the &quot;answer&quot; was tables, but I am not very good at tables.  I have been transcluding at [[User:Laura1822/sandbox3]]. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 00:43, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
:::P.S. @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I did a little more testing, and you can probably save yourself some time by placing half the duplicate text in either the header/footer (as you said in your original post), to save you typing out the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; tags. Then you need only add the includeonly tags on the previous/next page. I have added another example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/97]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]], placing text from djvu/97 into the footer, and using includeonly on the next page (djvu/98), noting in this case that spaces should appear after the last word inside the includeonly tags, not before the first word outside the includeonly tags. I also modified the example on djvu/98 and djvu/99, this time moving text from djvu/99 into the header, and using includeonly on the previous page (djvu/98). Hopefully this will be slightly faster. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:37, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you.  I am studying.  I did experiment myself just a little in the paragraph from 98-99, because I saw that there is an extra blank line in the transcluded text.  I wondered if it was because the multicol-related templates were outside the include-related tags, but when I enclosed them all within the tag, it made no difference that I could see.  I still don't quite understand how it's all supposed to work, but I will study it some more.  Thank you for helping me. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 12:24, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I am not sure if there was an entire blank line, but I agree that there was a small gap in the 1px black line which runs along the center of the multicol environment. What I should have done (and which fixes the issue), is to start and end the multicolumn environment on the same page (so either duplicate all the content from the first page to the second, or duplicate all the content from the second page to the first; and if the multicol would have to span three pages, then you need a table, as far as I am aware). I have accordingly corrected the djvu 98-99 example (the djvu 97-98 example was already fine). Apologies for any past confusion, as I do not use multicol all that much. Note that you also want to place the &lt;nowiki&gt;line=1px solid&lt;/nowiki&gt; arguments in the multicol-section template calls in most cases. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:13, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you, I just figured out that last bit about the vertical line yesterday.  I use inverted colors so I thought I just wasn't seeing it because it was black on black, but it turns out that I simply misunderstood what I saw on a page in another book that I was copying from.  I will study what you changed.  I will get it all figured out eventually! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== include ==

Can anyone please direct me to a Help page that will explain the purpose of the tags includeonly, noinclude, and onlyinclude, explaining their purposes and how and why they are intended to be used? [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: We have no such page in WS, but [[w:WP:NOINCLUDE]] covers the three of them. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:14, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you!!!! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 16:29, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

== Continuing a TOC across multiple pages with TOC row template ==

I had an issue with the table of contents formatting for pages [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/18|18]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/19|19]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/20|20]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/191|191]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/192|192]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/193|193]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/194|194]], and [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/195|195]] of my transcription for ''[[The Life, Studies, and Works of Benjamin West]]''. I used the TOC row 1-dot-1 template, but couldn't figure out how to extend it over different pages when the table of contents continues. I'm sure there's a way to do this, but I don't have that knowledge. Any help would be appreciated. [[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]] ([[User talk:JohnSon12a|talk]]) 22:27, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: AFAIK there isn't really a clean way to make a single line continue across pages. The approach you took of moving the end of it to the previous page seems good to me. Though you should use a comment (&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!-- text here --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;) for such notes, rather than putting them visible in the content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:31, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
*[[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]]: I’m not sure that it’s possible with the TOC row family of templates, but if you switch to dtpl you can! For the part on the bottom of the first page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/top'' in the text body and ''dotted TOC page listing/suspend'' in the footer, and then on the top of the second page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/resume'' in the header and ''dotted TOC page listing/bottom'' in the body. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:45, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
*: {{tl|dtpl}} really shouldn't be used, because it gives unreasonably large outputs. See [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2022#Orley_Farm_Contents+Illustrations_Lists] for size comparisons. Why? dtpl makes one separate table for each row, plus its dot leader hack is noticeably worse than others (putting {{tl|gap}}s in there).
*: IMO the best solution that would include keeping content on its page, would be taking the first half of the markup of {{tl|TOC row 1-dot-1}}, putting it at the end of the first page, and putting the second half of the invocation at the top of the second page. ''I could try and make a TOC row template to do this, one of these days.''' — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:54, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== The Mythology of All Races ==

Dear Friends.

I just looked at The Mythology of All Races. It seems to me that all the volumes are out of copyrights, yet there are many tomes that have red links. As a person that kind of likes mythologies, this makes me sad. Could I do something about this? Still, the books look kinda longish, I believe I would need to manually check every page, and I have some other projects right now to keep me busy, thus, I cannot promise anything in my current situation.

How much, do you think, as experienced users, time would be needed to be spent in order to publish all the tomes of this collection? And how hard and time-consuming is following all the steps in adding new content to Wikisources?

Best wishes!

-- [[User:Kaworu1992|Kaworu1992]] ([[User talk:Kaworu1992|talk]]) 00:02, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: It depends on how much time you have daily, but I'd say one or two weeks per 400-page volume, so if one person were to focus only on this it would perhaps take somewhere between two and four months. (This is a ''very'' rough approximation; the actual time something takes also depends on IRL events, on complexity of formatting, on motivation, on OCR quality, and whatnot. The question of &quot;how long will this take&quot; is really hard to answer.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Issue with imported file ==

I am attempting to create an index for ''The Making of Americans'' by Gertrude Stein. I used IA-upload to create a .djvu located at [[:File:The_Making_of_Americans,_1925.djvu]]. The file currently is listed as having 1,000×1,500 px. dimensions on Wikimedia Commons but is listed as having 0×0 px. dimensions on Wikisource. I do not know why this happened or how to fix it, and there does not seem to be documentation about this. Please help.

[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]] ([[User talk:Alef.person|talk]]) 00:15, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

:You may need to clear your cache.  It is displaying correctly for me. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:49, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The 0x0 bug that DJVUs get (as opposed to the PDF-specific one) disappears quite fase; probably the servers emptied their cache in the two-ish hours.
:: @[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]]: in general the way to fix this is to purge the server's cache; for this you can use the &quot;UTCLiveClock&quot; gadget from [[c:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:34, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== Search *inside* all works by author? ==

Let's say I heard of a saying (eg. &quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;) attributed to a particular author (&quot;Giambattista Vico&quot;), and I want to find out where and if the author himself actually uses this expression. I would search for &quot;ricorsi&quot;, but global full-text search is way too much information to sift through, and the only other option is manually searching all works, which is still very time-consuming.

Any ideas for searching all works all at once? [[User:AddyLockPool|AddyLockPool]] ([[User talk:AddyLockPool|talk]]) 10:35, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
: I'd do {{tqi|insource:&quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;}}, and then turn on all namespaces. Ought to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:55, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

== I think I need two new TOC-row templates ==

Per my current [[User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox|sandbox]] example, I'm trying to format a TOC with the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; templates, and I can get really close to the source format, but I'm encountering a couple hangups. Specifically, I'm using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-1-1-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and I don't know how to how to get the 2nd and 3rd columns center aligned, like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-c-c-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, which doesn't exist.

But that one's just the header row, so maybe there's another workaround that doesn't involve the creation of a 56th template.

The other hangup is the need for dots and left-alignment in the 2nd column, via something like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-ldot-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;. The closest existing template I could find is [[Template:TOC row 1-l-dot-1|&lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;]].

I'm open to any kind of suggestions. Thanks everybody! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:40, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: IMO, this doesn't warrant new templates. Just use CSS. For alignment, you can use index CSS to realign everything. For instance: &lt;code&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(2), .wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(3) { text-align:center }&lt;/code&gt;. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:13, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Is there any documentation here that helps with explaining how to do this? CSS is great for those who know how to parse and write it, as well as when there are good examples in the documentation (like adding AuxTOC coloring to a TOC-row template), but in other cases finding a template or combination of templates is more straightforward. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 14:12, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Okay. How do I access the index.css for a page? Should I insert your code example into [[Template:TOC_templates/styles.css]]? [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::It's at Index:&lt;var&gt;Name of work&lt;/var&gt;/styles.css. The easiest way to get there is to edit any page, scroll to the bottom and you'll see the CSS linked. If there's nothing there (which is true for 90%+ of works), it will be a red link. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:57, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Even easier, when you're in the index page, at the top left, next to &quot;index&quot; and &quot;discussion&quot; there is &quot;styles&quot;, which leads to the index css. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:08, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Those are incredibly straight-forward instructions, thank you both so much! I tried reading through the page on Wikipedia about TemplateStyles[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TemplateStyles], which &quot;work on all types of pages, not just templates, despite the name.&quot; I couldn't understand anything there without studying a bunch of other material. This ought to work on a sandbox page, so I can tinker with it and learn by doing, now. Thanks again!! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 05:11, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Happy to help. Not sure what your proficiency is with CSS, but if you need help with something, let me know: I'm pretty okay at tinkering with CSS, particularly prior to 4.0. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 05:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

The first template has been handled. The second template has me stumped bad. I've looked at several template, style.css pages, and help pages, but I still have no clue how to add dots to &lt;nowiki&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-l-dot-1 td:nth-child(2)&lt;/nowiki&gt;. It looks like several wrapper classes were needed to implement the dots in the first place, so maybe it's not as easy to replicate them in another td element. Or if it is easy, I have no clue how to identify the parent class/div names, nor the inheritance syntax for applying it. [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 00:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Weird symbols ==

Right before the title of many poems of [[Index:XLI poems.djvu]], there is a weird sort of symbol (ex [[Page:XLI poems.djvu/15]]). It's never the same. To me, it looks like a hastily hand-drawn circle. Given this, and that its position varies (horizontally close to the center but not centered), I think that it is an annotation of a librarian or whatnot, post-publication. And so I've concluded that these shouldn't be transcribed. Do you agree? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Given the inconsistent shapes, usage, and placement, I'd agree with the assumption that they aren't part of the work. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:Agreed that this seems to be someone scribbling in the book. I'd say assume that until you know otherwise (e.g. if you find another scan that has it). —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:46, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059899487&amp;seq=266&amp;q1=+the+sky+was+can+dy is a reprint of the poem a couple years later, and shows no sign of any such mark.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 02:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Case closed. 🙅 —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to everyone for the input! — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:49, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::You do a lot of great work around here and are very helpful. Let me thank you as well. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:55, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Problems with transcluded texts ==

Referring to: [[The Chinese language and how to learn it/The Written Language#]]

There are a large number of errors - figures turned into random modern characters, spaces added into words, characters deleted from words and spaces inserted into their places, chinese characters rendered as modern QWERTY symbols, etc.

In non-transcluded texts, I'd mark the page as problematic. What's the protocol for pointing out problems with a page (problems which the reader doesn't have the skill/knowledge to fix)? [[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] ([[User talk:Grayautumnday|talk]]) 17:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:This chapter was transcluded too early as some the pages are not proofread. Click on the page links in the left margin of the text for the problem pages and mark them as problematic in the Page: namespace. This will be represented in the status bar at the top of the transcluded text. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Documents with numbered pargraphs ==

I have a document where the paragraphs are numbered throughout the entire document; is there set (or recommended) way to implement these numbers?

Example page with the numbered paragraphs:[[Page:The_collapse_of_NATM_tunnels_at_Heathrow_Airport.pdf/9]] -- [[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:''(Wording error in original question fixed)'' --[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:51, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Hello @[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]],
::Two options come to mind. The first would be to implement these numbers with sidenotes, e.g. [[:Template:Sidenote]]. The problem is, sidenotes are trouble from a technical point of view, and the likelihood that they render correctly in both page and namespace is probably low. If you see my example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/9]], to reduce the left margin below the 11em default has led to the line numbers overflowing left (into the wiki toolbar links on the left). This will (sort of) correct itself once transcluded, although may look worse for wide layouts (e.g. layout 1). The other option, see example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/10]] is to use [[:Template:Pline]]. Adjusting the (now small) margin might not look so great either, but at least it isn't (at present) colliding with any text. It may also be possible to apply changes across the entire work with some custom css styles, if you are interested in pursuing the [[:Template:Pline]] option (e.g. changing the color or margin - please ask if unsure how to go about this).
::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 05:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Other possibility: a table. Where the left column is the para numbers, and the right column is the para. For unnumeberd paras (like titles) you can just leave the left cell empty. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:59, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The template {{tl|numbered div/s}} might be of help here. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:11, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: The issue would be with the margins: except by putting all paras in a numbered div even when they don't have a number, the unnumbered divs will be missing the left margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:: A table with the necessary styling templates could take the work beyond the expansion limit. Personally, I would use {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} on the single digit numbers for alighment. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 20:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Given no formatting would need to be added to the table from what I can see, I think it wouldn't go above PEIS. The text added per para would be |-\n|[a few digits, less than 10]||. So about 16 chars per para. That's shorter than a single {{tl|fqm}} invocation (109 chars). Styling can be done through index css.
::: Plus, {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} would mean not having the margins on the whole paragraphs, no? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Looking over the options folks suggested, using [[:Template:Pline]] seems like it might be the simplest approach. Bonus if the look of the Pline numbers can be modified.--[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 04:51, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: They have the css class {{code|wst-pline}}, so you can target them in index CSS with something like {{code|.wst-pline { color: inherit; font-size:inherit }}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:54, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: There is also {{tl|*!/s}}{{tl|*!/i}}{{tl|*!/e}} for doing block based lists. I wrote these to work around some limitations of wikitext lists, but for a 'list' of numbered paragraphs it would be a 'use-case'. You do have to mark the start of each item though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

== Rotated book ==

Most of the content pages of ''[https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000108920392&amp;seq=16 Christmas tree]'' are turned sideways (as in, the text's put in landscape rather than portrait mode).

Do you think that the rotation is part of the content, or was it just a technical device to allow for larger text? And so, should they be transcribed {{rotate|-90|rotated}} (which is technically doable) or normally ? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:What would be cool is if it had a button that would show the as published layout. [[:Index:Christmas Tree-EEC.djvu]] Did the book that was scanned have a silver page?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:10, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Maybe change the way a {{tl|class block}} works?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:12, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Technically, there wouldn't be an issue. I'm wondering on whether we ''should''. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:21, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]], a side note for future cases: it's nice, but don't bother generating files for me; I prefer to do it myself because of my OCR setup and a few other things; and that requires going through PDF first; so I don't use preexisting DJVUs.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: [[User:Alien333|Alien 333]]: Sorry for the (what for me would have been an) annoyance. I think it should be okay to upload in the same namespace; you know of the upload a new version link on the commons page?  I also did some images.  I have a pretty good cover and that first image, with the stars and such, I brightened the faded colors and I removed that underline from the &quot;C&quot;, because I think it is a librarian mark, just in red.  There seems to be an &quot;underlining the first letter of the title and first letter in the last name ritual&quot; that many libraries practice(d).  I am tempted to upload my image into your images namespace, but see the annoyance apology.

:::I am going to upload the cover and put that onto the header, but that can be easily reverted away.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:37, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: It's not an annoyance, no; it's just I thought you could spare yourself the effort since I'm not going to use them. If you want, you can reupload the illustrations under the same title if you've got better ones; it's specifically for the whole scans (the djvus) that I really like to do them myself. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], I am unsure what you do to your pdf files, but perhaps you could strip the watermarks from the pages?  If I were just picking a version to use, I would have picked the version without Google et al slapped on them.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:10, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Based on the shape of the cover and the how the scan looks, I think it was printed {{rotate|-90|rotated}}. That said, I think it would look and read better on screen if transcribed non-rotated -- the same way we handle photos that are printed &quot;turned.&quot; &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 18:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Good point on the images - Thanks. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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== [[Template:Symbol missing]] ==

This is supposed to add a specialized tracking category only if specifically mentioned, but it does so in every case. I’m not sure what the intended function is, though, so I hope someone else will make the appropriate change. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:52, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing something in the documentation, but the only if/then statement is &quot;if you have a character from a specific language or script, then choose that&quot; (e.g. Korean or Hebrew). If you insert {{tl|symbol missing}} then I think it's supposed to have the tracking category, near as I can tell. Can you give an example of a page that shouldn't be tracked but is? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]: The template will always produce ''a'' tracking category, but usually produces the ''wrong'' one: see [[Page:History of the Literature of Ancient Greece (Müller) 2ed.djvu/209]]. In this case, because there are no specified parameters, it should be put into the generic category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters]]), but is instead put in the specific category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters not in unicode]]). (In addition, “Unicode” should be capitalized.) [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:45, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Ah, I see. I think this is a non-issue, as it ''is'' in the generic one as well as the &quot;not in unicode&quot; one. For that matter, the &quot;Unicode&quot; issue is pretty trivial to fix, so I can do that now if it matters, but I also don't think that's a big issue. The template is somewhat inefficient or redundant, but everything is in the category it should be in, it's just ''also'' in a secondary and seemingly unnecessary one with a small typo. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 19:48, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:I just updated {{tl|symbol missing}} to fix this error, should hopefully behave properly now —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:04, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Colored Bulleted List ==

How do I make a bulleted list where the bullet points are colored? [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 16:58, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: CSS:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.whateverparentselector li::marker {
  color: whatevercolor;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
: Should do the trick. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:39, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== multicol template current best practices ==

I am using multicol for strict parallel columns across many pages, paragraph by paragraph (showing a translation).

1.  Is nop or nopt required when using this template?  (It seems not, since every page ends with multicol-end.)

2.  What is the best practice for paragraphs that span pages?  I have tried putting codes in the footer/header within the split (like for tables), but it does not work.  I have searched the Scriptorium archives and looked at a lot of pages/works that use multicol, trying to find examples.  The best I have found so far appears to be copying the entire rest of the paragraph (from the next page) into the footer of the page on which the paragraph begins, with a multicol-end code also in the footer, then using noinclude (?) for the same text on the next page (I may have that wrong).  Is this really the best way?  Thanks for any suggestions, and especially any links to pages using a particular technique, so that I may copy/paste. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 18:18, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]],
:Regarding point 1. Multicol breaks paragraphs between pages, whether you want it to or not (as you have seen). Thus, you do not need nop/nopt.
:Regarding point 2. I am not sure of the best practices for multicol per se, but using noinclude and includeonly should work. However, neither needs to be placed in the footer. I have provided an example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/99]]. Note also that hws/hwe doesn't help with noinclude/includeonly, and the hyphenated word has to be handled manually (as in the example). I also recommend transcluding as you go, to make sure this is all working, and to identify other pages in the text where noinclude/includeonly should be added.
:For reference, I believe the only way to avoid copy pasting text from page to page would be to use a raw html table, rather than the multicol environment. If you would prefer to do this, I could help set something up, but otherwise, the above should work.
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:28, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you so much!  I will study what you have done tomorrow.  I thought perhaps the &quot;answer&quot; was tables, but I am not very good at tables.  I have been transcluding at [[User:Laura1822/sandbox3]]. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 00:43, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
:::P.S. @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I did a little more testing, and you can probably save yourself some time by placing half the duplicate text in either the header/footer (as you said in your original post), to save you typing out the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; tags. Then you need only add the includeonly tags on the previous/next page. I have added another example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/97]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]], placing text from djvu/97 into the footer, and using includeonly on the next page (djvu/98), noting in this case that spaces should appear after the last word inside the includeonly tags, not before the first word outside the includeonly tags. I also modified the example on djvu/98 and djvu/99, this time moving text from djvu/99 into the header, and using includeonly on the previous page (djvu/98). Hopefully this will be slightly faster. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:37, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you.  I am studying.  I did experiment myself just a little in the paragraph from 98-99, because I saw that there is an extra blank line in the transcluded text.  I wondered if it was because the multicol-related templates were outside the include-related tags, but when I enclosed them all within the tag, it made no difference that I could see.  I still don't quite understand how it's all supposed to work, but I will study it some more.  Thank you for helping me. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 12:24, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I am not sure if there was an entire blank line, but I agree that there was a small gap in the 1px black line which runs along the center of the multicol environment. What I should have done (and which fixes the issue), is to start and end the multicolumn environment on the same page (so either duplicate all the content from the first page to the second, or duplicate all the content from the second page to the first; and if the multicol would have to span three pages, then you need a table, as far as I am aware). I have accordingly corrected the djvu 98-99 example (the djvu 97-98 example was already fine). Apologies for any past confusion, as I do not use multicol all that much. Note that you also want to place the &lt;nowiki&gt;line=1px solid&lt;/nowiki&gt; arguments in the multicol-section template calls in most cases. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:13, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you, I just figured out that last bit about the vertical line yesterday.  I use inverted colors so I thought I just wasn't seeing it because it was black on black, but it turns out that I simply misunderstood what I saw on a page in another book that I was copying from.  I will study what you changed.  I will get it all figured out eventually! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== include ==

Can anyone please direct me to a Help page that will explain the purpose of the tags includeonly, noinclude, and onlyinclude, explaining their purposes and how and why they are intended to be used? [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: We have no such page in WS, but [[w:WP:NOINCLUDE]] covers the three of them. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:14, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you!!!! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 16:29, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

== Continuing a TOC across multiple pages with TOC row template ==

I had an issue with the table of contents formatting for pages [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/18|18]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/19|19]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/20|20]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/191|191]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/192|192]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/193|193]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/194|194]], and [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/195|195]] of my transcription for ''[[The Life, Studies, and Works of Benjamin West]]''. I used the TOC row 1-dot-1 template, but couldn't figure out how to extend it over different pages when the table of contents continues. I'm sure there's a way to do this, but I don't have that knowledge. Any help would be appreciated. [[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]] ([[User talk:JohnSon12a|talk]]) 22:27, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: AFAIK there isn't really a clean way to make a single line continue across pages. The approach you took of moving the end of it to the previous page seems good to me. Though you should use a comment (&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!-- text here --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;) for such notes, rather than putting them visible in the content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:31, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
*[[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]]: I’m not sure that it’s possible with the TOC row family of templates, but if you switch to dtpl you can! For the part on the bottom of the first page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/top'' in the text body and ''dotted TOC page listing/suspend'' in the footer, and then on the top of the second page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/resume'' in the header and ''dotted TOC page listing/bottom'' in the body. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:45, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
*: {{tl|dtpl}} really shouldn't be used, because it gives unreasonably large outputs. See [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2022#Orley_Farm_Contents+Illustrations_Lists] for size comparisons. Why? dtpl makes one separate table for each row, plus its dot leader hack is noticeably worse than others (putting {{tl|gap}}s in there).
*: IMO the best solution that would include keeping content on its page, would be taking the first half of the markup of {{tl|TOC row 1-dot-1}}, putting it at the end of the first page, and putting the second half of the invocation at the top of the second page. ''I could try and make a TOC row template to do this, one of these days.''' — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:54, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== The Mythology of All Races ==

Dear Friends.

I just looked at The Mythology of All Races. It seems to me that all the volumes are out of copyrights, yet there are many tomes that have red links. As a person that kind of likes mythologies, this makes me sad. Could I do something about this? Still, the books look kinda longish, I believe I would need to manually check every page, and I have some other projects right now to keep me busy, thus, I cannot promise anything in my current situation.

How much, do you think, as experienced users, time would be needed to be spent in order to publish all the tomes of this collection? And how hard and time-consuming is following all the steps in adding new content to Wikisources?

Best wishes!

-- [[User:Kaworu1992|Kaworu1992]] ([[User talk:Kaworu1992|talk]]) 00:02, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: It depends on how much time you have daily, but I'd say one or two weeks per 400-page volume, so if one person were to focus only on this it would perhaps take somewhere between two and four months. (This is a ''very'' rough approximation; the actual time something takes also depends on IRL events, on complexity of formatting, on motivation, on OCR quality, and whatnot. The question of &quot;how long will this take&quot; is really hard to answer.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Issue with imported file ==

I am attempting to create an index for ''The Making of Americans'' by Gertrude Stein. I used IA-upload to create a .djvu located at [[:File:The_Making_of_Americans,_1925.djvu]]. The file currently is listed as having 1,000×1,500 px. dimensions on Wikimedia Commons but is listed as having 0×0 px. dimensions on Wikisource. I do not know why this happened or how to fix it, and there does not seem to be documentation about this. Please help.

[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]] ([[User talk:Alef.person|talk]]) 00:15, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

:You may need to clear your cache.  It is displaying correctly for me. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:49, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The 0x0 bug that DJVUs get (as opposed to the PDF-specific one) disappears quite fase; probably the servers emptied their cache in the two-ish hours.
:: @[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]]: in general the way to fix this is to purge the server's cache; for this you can use the &quot;UTCLiveClock&quot; gadget from [[c:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:34, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== Search *inside* all works by author? ==

Let's say I heard of a saying (eg. &quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;) attributed to a particular author (&quot;Giambattista Vico&quot;), and I want to find out where and if the author himself actually uses this expression. I would search for &quot;ricorsi&quot;, but global full-text search is way too much information to sift through, and the only other option is manually searching all works, which is still very time-consuming.

Any ideas for searching all works all at once? [[User:AddyLockPool|AddyLockPool]] ([[User talk:AddyLockPool|talk]]) 10:35, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
: I'd do {{tqi|insource:&quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;}}, and then turn on all namespaces. Ought to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:55, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

== I think I need two new TOC-row templates ==

Per my current [[User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox|sandbox]] example, I'm trying to format a TOC with the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; templates, and I can get really close to the source format, but I'm encountering a couple hangups. Specifically, I'm using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-1-1-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and I don't know how to how to get the 2nd and 3rd columns center aligned, like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-c-c-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, which doesn't exist.

But that one's just the header row, so maybe there's another workaround that doesn't involve the creation of a 56th template.

The other hangup is the need for dots and left-alignment in the 2nd column, via something like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-ldot-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;. The closest existing template I could find is [[Template:TOC row 1-l-dot-1|&lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;]].

I'm open to any kind of suggestions. Thanks everybody! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:40, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: IMO, this doesn't warrant new templates. Just use CSS. For alignment, you can use index CSS to realign everything. For instance: &lt;code&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(2), .wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(3) { text-align:center }&lt;/code&gt;. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:13, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Is there any documentation here that helps with explaining how to do this? CSS is great for those who know how to parse and write it, as well as when there are good examples in the documentation (like adding AuxTOC coloring to a TOC-row template), but in other cases finding a template or combination of templates is more straightforward. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 14:12, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Okay. How do I access the index.css for a page? Should I insert your code example into [[Template:TOC_templates/styles.css]]? [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::It's at Index:&lt;var&gt;Name of work&lt;/var&gt;/styles.css. The easiest way to get there is to edit any page, scroll to the bottom and you'll see the CSS linked. If there's nothing there (which is true for 90%+ of works), it will be a red link. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:57, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Even easier, when you're in the index page, at the top left, next to &quot;index&quot; and &quot;discussion&quot; there is &quot;styles&quot;, which leads to the index css. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:08, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Those are incredibly straight-forward instructions, thank you both so much! I tried reading through the page on Wikipedia about TemplateStyles[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TemplateStyles], which &quot;work on all types of pages, not just templates, despite the name.&quot; I couldn't understand anything there without studying a bunch of other material. This ought to work on a sandbox page, so I can tinker with it and learn by doing, now. Thanks again!! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 05:11, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Happy to help. Not sure what your proficiency is with CSS, but if you need help with something, let me know: I'm pretty okay at tinkering with CSS, particularly prior to 4.0. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 05:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

The first template has been handled. The second template has me stumped bad. I've looked at several template, style.css pages, and help pages, but I still have no clue how to add dots to &lt;nowiki&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-l-dot-1 td:nth-child(2)&lt;/nowiki&gt;. It looks like several wrapper classes were needed to implement the dots in the first place, so maybe it's not as easy to replicate them in another td element. Or if it is easy, I have no clue how to identify the parent class/div names, nor the inheritance syntax for applying it. [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 00:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Weird symbols ==

Right before the title of many poems of [[Index:XLI poems.djvu]], there is a weird sort of symbol (ex [[Page:XLI poems.djvu/15]]). It's never the same. To me, it looks like a hastily hand-drawn circle. Given this, and that its position varies (horizontally close to the center but not centered), I think that it is an annotation of a librarian or whatnot, post-publication. And so I've concluded that these shouldn't be transcribed. Do you agree? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Given the inconsistent shapes, usage, and placement, I'd agree with the assumption that they aren't part of the work. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:Agreed that this seems to be someone scribbling in the book. I'd say assume that until you know otherwise (e.g. if you find another scan that has it). —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:46, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059899487&amp;seq=266&amp;q1=+the+sky+was+can+dy is a reprint of the poem a couple years later, and shows no sign of any such mark.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 02:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Case closed. 🙅 —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to everyone for the input! — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:49, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::You do a lot of great work around here and are very helpful. Let me thank you as well. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:55, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Problems with transcluded texts ==

Referring to: [[The Chinese language and how to learn it/The Written Language#]]

There are a large number of errors - figures turned into random modern characters, spaces added into words, characters deleted from words and spaces inserted into their places, chinese characters rendered as modern QWERTY symbols, etc.

In non-transcluded texts, I'd mark the page as problematic. What's the protocol for pointing out problems with a page (problems which the reader doesn't have the skill/knowledge to fix)? [[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] ([[User talk:Grayautumnday|talk]]) 17:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:This chapter was transcluded too early as some the pages are not proofread. Click on the page links in the left margin of the text for the problem pages and mark them as problematic in the Page: namespace. This will be represented in the status bar at the top of the transcluded text. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Documents with numbered pargraphs ==

I have a document where the paragraphs are numbered throughout the entire document; is there set (or recommended) way to implement these numbers?

Example page with the numbered paragraphs:[[Page:The_collapse_of_NATM_tunnels_at_Heathrow_Airport.pdf/9]] -- [[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:''(Wording error in original question fixed)'' --[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:51, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Hello @[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]],
::Two options come to mind. The first would be to implement these numbers with sidenotes, e.g. [[:Template:Sidenote]]. The problem is, sidenotes are trouble from a technical point of view, and the likelihood that they render correctly in both page and namespace is probably low. If you see my example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/9]], to reduce the left margin below the 11em default has led to the line numbers overflowing left (into the wiki toolbar links on the left). This will (sort of) correct itself once transcluded, although may look worse for wide layouts (e.g. layout 1). The other option, see example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/10]] is to use [[:Template:Pline]]. Adjusting the (now small) margin might not look so great either, but at least it isn't (at present) colliding with any text. It may also be possible to apply changes across the entire work with some custom css styles, if you are interested in pursuing the [[:Template:Pline]] option (e.g. changing the color or margin - please ask if unsure how to go about this).
::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 05:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Other possibility: a table. Where the left column is the para numbers, and the right column is the para. For unnumeberd paras (like titles) you can just leave the left cell empty. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:59, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The template {{tl|numbered div/s}} might be of help here. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:11, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: The issue would be with the margins: except by putting all paras in a numbered div even when they don't have a number, the unnumbered divs will be missing the left margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:: A table with the necessary styling templates could take the work beyond the expansion limit. Personally, I would use {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} on the single digit numbers for alighment. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 20:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Given no formatting would need to be added to the table from what I can see, I think it wouldn't go above PEIS. The text added per para would be |-\n|[a few digits, less than 10]||. So about 16 chars per para. That's shorter than a single {{tl|fqm}} invocation (109 chars). Styling can be done through index css.
::: Plus, {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} would mean not having the margins on the whole paragraphs, no? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Looking over the options folks suggested, using [[:Template:Pline]] seems like it might be the simplest approach. Bonus if the look of the Pline numbers can be modified.--[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 04:51, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: They have the css class {{code|wst-pline}}, so you can target them in index CSS with something like {{code|.wst-pline { color: inherit; font-size:inherit }}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:54, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: There is also {{tl|*!/s}}{{tl|*!/i}}{{tl|*!/e}} for doing block based lists. I wrote these to work around some limitations of wikitext lists, but for a 'list' of numbered paragraphs it would be a 'use-case'. You do have to mark the start of each item though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

== Rotated book ==

Most of the content pages of ''[https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000108920392&amp;seq=16 Christmas tree]'' are turned sideways (as in, the text's put in landscape rather than portrait mode).

Do you think that the rotation is part of the content, or was it just a technical device to allow for larger text? And so, should they be transcribed {{rotate|-90|rotated}} (which is technically doable) or normally ? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:What would be cool is if it had a button that would show the as published layout. [[:Index:Christmas Tree-EEC.djvu]] Did the book that was scanned have a silver page?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:10, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Maybe change the way a {{tl|class block}} works?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:12, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Technically, there wouldn't be an issue. I'm wondering on whether we ''should''. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:21, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]], a side note for future cases: it's nice, but don't bother generating files for me; I prefer to do it myself because of my OCR setup and a few other things; and that requires going through PDF first; so I don't use preexisting DJVUs.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: [[User:Alien333|Alien 333]]: Sorry for the (what for me would have been an) annoyance. I think it should be okay to upload in the same namespace; you know of the upload a new version link on the commons page?  I also did some images.  I have a pretty good cover and that first image, with the stars and such, I brightened the faded colors and I removed that underline from the &quot;C&quot;, because I think it is a librarian mark, just in red.  There seems to be an &quot;underlining the first letter of the title and first letter in the last name ritual&quot; that many libraries practice(d).  I am tempted to upload my image into your images namespace, but see the annoyance apology.

:::I am going to upload the cover and put that onto the header, but that can be easily reverted away.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:37, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: It's not an annoyance, no; it's just I thought you could spare yourself the effort since I'm not going to use them. If you want, you can reupload the illustrations under the same title if you've got better ones; it's specifically for the whole scans (the djvus) that I really like to do them myself. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], I am unsure what you do to your pdf files, but perhaps you could strip the watermarks from the pages?  If I were just picking a version to use, I would have picked the version without Google et al slapped on them.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:10, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: I would definitely appreciate watermark stripping. How do you do that? Last time I tried removing the google watermarks I got the impression that they were actually rasterised onto the jpgs and that they couldn't really be easily removed. I was probably wrong.
::: On my setup: it's essentially raw images (JP2 if from IA, else JPGs) -[https://gitlab.mister-muffin.de/josch/img2pdf img2pdf]&gt; pdfs -[https://github.com/ocrmypdf/OCRmyPDF ocrmypdf]&gt; pdfs with OCR -[https://github.com/jwilk-archive/pdf2djvu pdf2djvu]&gt; djvus.
::: The in-between PDF conversion is the weak spot, but with my setup I manage to get OCR greatly superior to what I can get on-site or on the internet, and ocrmypdf as the name says does only pdfs. To me, getting good OCR is more important than the actual page image; given of course that the image is still clear and legible. [https://github.com/jwilk-archive/ocrodjvu ocrodjvu] looks promising but I never managed to get it up and running (missing dependencies not in my package manager IIRC) [[User:Inductiveload/Scripts/DJVU OCR]] also looks like a possible improvement, but it's python 2.X and I haven't bothered trying to update it (definitely should at some point).
::: I'd be interested if you have tips for file conversions. Regards, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)


:Based on the shape of the cover and the how the scan looks, I think it was printed {{rotate|-90|rotated}}. That said, I think it would look and read better on screen if transcribed non-rotated -- the same way we handle photos that are printed &quot;turned.&quot; &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 18:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Good point on the images - Thanks. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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== [[Template:Symbol missing]] ==

This is supposed to add a specialized tracking category only if specifically mentioned, but it does so in every case. I’m not sure what the intended function is, though, so I hope someone else will make the appropriate change. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:52, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing something in the documentation, but the only if/then statement is &quot;if you have a character from a specific language or script, then choose that&quot; (e.g. Korean or Hebrew). If you insert {{tl|symbol missing}} then I think it's supposed to have the tracking category, near as I can tell. Can you give an example of a page that shouldn't be tracked but is? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]: The template will always produce ''a'' tracking category, but usually produces the ''wrong'' one: see [[Page:History of the Literature of Ancient Greece (Müller) 2ed.djvu/209]]. In this case, because there are no specified parameters, it should be put into the generic category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters]]), but is instead put in the specific category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters not in unicode]]). (In addition, “Unicode” should be capitalized.) [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:45, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Ah, I see. I think this is a non-issue, as it ''is'' in the generic one as well as the &quot;not in unicode&quot; one. For that matter, the &quot;Unicode&quot; issue is pretty trivial to fix, so I can do that now if it matters, but I also don't think that's a big issue. The template is somewhat inefficient or redundant, but everything is in the category it should be in, it's just ''also'' in a secondary and seemingly unnecessary one with a small typo. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 19:48, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:I just updated {{tl|symbol missing}} to fix this error, should hopefully behave properly now —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:04, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Colored Bulleted List ==

How do I make a bulleted list where the bullet points are colored? [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 16:58, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: CSS:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.whateverparentselector li::marker {
  color: whatevercolor;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
: Should do the trick. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:39, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== multicol template current best practices ==

I am using multicol for strict parallel columns across many pages, paragraph by paragraph (showing a translation).

1.  Is nop or nopt required when using this template?  (It seems not, since every page ends with multicol-end.)

2.  What is the best practice for paragraphs that span pages?  I have tried putting codes in the footer/header within the split (like for tables), but it does not work.  I have searched the Scriptorium archives and looked at a lot of pages/works that use multicol, trying to find examples.  The best I have found so far appears to be copying the entire rest of the paragraph (from the next page) into the footer of the page on which the paragraph begins, with a multicol-end code also in the footer, then using noinclude (?) for the same text on the next page (I may have that wrong).  Is this really the best way?  Thanks for any suggestions, and especially any links to pages using a particular technique, so that I may copy/paste. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 18:18, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]],
:Regarding point 1. Multicol breaks paragraphs between pages, whether you want it to or not (as you have seen). Thus, you do not need nop/nopt.
:Regarding point 2. I am not sure of the best practices for multicol per se, but using noinclude and includeonly should work. However, neither needs to be placed in the footer. I have provided an example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/99]]. Note also that hws/hwe doesn't help with noinclude/includeonly, and the hyphenated word has to be handled manually (as in the example). I also recommend transcluding as you go, to make sure this is all working, and to identify other pages in the text where noinclude/includeonly should be added.
:For reference, I believe the only way to avoid copy pasting text from page to page would be to use a raw html table, rather than the multicol environment. If you would prefer to do this, I could help set something up, but otherwise, the above should work.
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:28, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you so much!  I will study what you have done tomorrow.  I thought perhaps the &quot;answer&quot; was tables, but I am not very good at tables.  I have been transcluding at [[User:Laura1822/sandbox3]]. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 00:43, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
:::P.S. @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I did a little more testing, and you can probably save yourself some time by placing half the duplicate text in either the header/footer (as you said in your original post), to save you typing out the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; tags. Then you need only add the includeonly tags on the previous/next page. I have added another example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/97]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]], placing text from djvu/97 into the footer, and using includeonly on the next page (djvu/98), noting in this case that spaces should appear after the last word inside the includeonly tags, not before the first word outside the includeonly tags. I also modified the example on djvu/98 and djvu/99, this time moving text from djvu/99 into the header, and using includeonly on the previous page (djvu/98). Hopefully this will be slightly faster. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:37, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you.  I am studying.  I did experiment myself just a little in the paragraph from 98-99, because I saw that there is an extra blank line in the transcluded text.  I wondered if it was because the multicol-related templates were outside the include-related tags, but when I enclosed them all within the tag, it made no difference that I could see.  I still don't quite understand how it's all supposed to work, but I will study it some more.  Thank you for helping me. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 12:24, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I am not sure if there was an entire blank line, but I agree that there was a small gap in the 1px black line which runs along the center of the multicol environment. What I should have done (and which fixes the issue), is to start and end the multicolumn environment on the same page (so either duplicate all the content from the first page to the second, or duplicate all the content from the second page to the first; and if the multicol would have to span three pages, then you need a table, as far as I am aware). I have accordingly corrected the djvu 98-99 example (the djvu 97-98 example was already fine). Apologies for any past confusion, as I do not use multicol all that much. Note that you also want to place the &lt;nowiki&gt;line=1px solid&lt;/nowiki&gt; arguments in the multicol-section template calls in most cases. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:13, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you, I just figured out that last bit about the vertical line yesterday.  I use inverted colors so I thought I just wasn't seeing it because it was black on black, but it turns out that I simply misunderstood what I saw on a page in another book that I was copying from.  I will study what you changed.  I will get it all figured out eventually! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== include ==

Can anyone please direct me to a Help page that will explain the purpose of the tags includeonly, noinclude, and onlyinclude, explaining their purposes and how and why they are intended to be used? [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: We have no such page in WS, but [[w:WP:NOINCLUDE]] covers the three of them. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:14, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you!!!! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 16:29, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

== Continuing a TOC across multiple pages with TOC row template ==

I had an issue with the table of contents formatting for pages [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/18|18]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/19|19]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/20|20]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/191|191]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/192|192]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/193|193]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/194|194]], and [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/195|195]] of my transcription for ''[[The Life, Studies, and Works of Benjamin West]]''. I used the TOC row 1-dot-1 template, but couldn't figure out how to extend it over different pages when the table of contents continues. I'm sure there's a way to do this, but I don't have that knowledge. Any help would be appreciated. [[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]] ([[User talk:JohnSon12a|talk]]) 22:27, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: AFAIK there isn't really a clean way to make a single line continue across pages. The approach you took of moving the end of it to the previous page seems good to me. Though you should use a comment (&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!-- text here --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;) for such notes, rather than putting them visible in the content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:31, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
*[[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]]: I’m not sure that it’s possible with the TOC row family of templates, but if you switch to dtpl you can! For the part on the bottom of the first page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/top'' in the text body and ''dotted TOC page listing/suspend'' in the footer, and then on the top of the second page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/resume'' in the header and ''dotted TOC page listing/bottom'' in the body. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:45, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
*: {{tl|dtpl}} really shouldn't be used, because it gives unreasonably large outputs. See [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2022#Orley_Farm_Contents+Illustrations_Lists] for size comparisons. Why? dtpl makes one separate table for each row, plus its dot leader hack is noticeably worse than others (putting {{tl|gap}}s in there).
*: IMO the best solution that would include keeping content on its page, would be taking the first half of the markup of {{tl|TOC row 1-dot-1}}, putting it at the end of the first page, and putting the second half of the invocation at the top of the second page. ''I could try and make a TOC row template to do this, one of these days.''' — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:54, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== The Mythology of All Races ==

Dear Friends.

I just looked at The Mythology of All Races. It seems to me that all the volumes are out of copyrights, yet there are many tomes that have red links. As a person that kind of likes mythologies, this makes me sad. Could I do something about this? Still, the books look kinda longish, I believe I would need to manually check every page, and I have some other projects right now to keep me busy, thus, I cannot promise anything in my current situation.

How much, do you think, as experienced users, time would be needed to be spent in order to publish all the tomes of this collection? And how hard and time-consuming is following all the steps in adding new content to Wikisources?

Best wishes!

-- [[User:Kaworu1992|Kaworu1992]] ([[User talk:Kaworu1992|talk]]) 00:02, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: It depends on how much time you have daily, but I'd say one or two weeks per 400-page volume, so if one person were to focus only on this it would perhaps take somewhere between two and four months. (This is a ''very'' rough approximation; the actual time something takes also depends on IRL events, on complexity of formatting, on motivation, on OCR quality, and whatnot. The question of &quot;how long will this take&quot; is really hard to answer.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Issue with imported file ==

I am attempting to create an index for ''The Making of Americans'' by Gertrude Stein. I used IA-upload to create a .djvu located at [[:File:The_Making_of_Americans,_1925.djvu]]. The file currently is listed as having 1,000×1,500 px. dimensions on Wikimedia Commons but is listed as having 0×0 px. dimensions on Wikisource. I do not know why this happened or how to fix it, and there does not seem to be documentation about this. Please help.

[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]] ([[User talk:Alef.person|talk]]) 00:15, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

:You may need to clear your cache.  It is displaying correctly for me. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:49, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The 0x0 bug that DJVUs get (as opposed to the PDF-specific one) disappears quite fase; probably the servers emptied their cache in the two-ish hours.
:: @[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]]: in general the way to fix this is to purge the server's cache; for this you can use the &quot;UTCLiveClock&quot; gadget from [[c:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:34, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== Search *inside* all works by author? ==

Let's say I heard of a saying (eg. &quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;) attributed to a particular author (&quot;Giambattista Vico&quot;), and I want to find out where and if the author himself actually uses this expression. I would search for &quot;ricorsi&quot;, but global full-text search is way too much information to sift through, and the only other option is manually searching all works, which is still very time-consuming.

Any ideas for searching all works all at once? [[User:AddyLockPool|AddyLockPool]] ([[User talk:AddyLockPool|talk]]) 10:35, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
: I'd do {{tqi|insource:&quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;}}, and then turn on all namespaces. Ought to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:55, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

== I think I need two new TOC-row templates ==

Per my current [[User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox|sandbox]] example, I'm trying to format a TOC with the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; templates, and I can get really close to the source format, but I'm encountering a couple hangups. Specifically, I'm using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-1-1-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and I don't know how to how to get the 2nd and 3rd columns center aligned, like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-c-c-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, which doesn't exist.

But that one's just the header row, so maybe there's another workaround that doesn't involve the creation of a 56th template.

The other hangup is the need for dots and left-alignment in the 2nd column, via something like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-ldot-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;. The closest existing template I could find is [[Template:TOC row 1-l-dot-1|&lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;]].

I'm open to any kind of suggestions. Thanks everybody! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:40, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: IMO, this doesn't warrant new templates. Just use CSS. For alignment, you can use index CSS to realign everything. For instance: &lt;code&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(2), .wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(3) { text-align:center }&lt;/code&gt;. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:13, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Is there any documentation here that helps with explaining how to do this? CSS is great for those who know how to parse and write it, as well as when there are good examples in the documentation (like adding AuxTOC coloring to a TOC-row template), but in other cases finding a template or combination of templates is more straightforward. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 14:12, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Okay. How do I access the index.css for a page? Should I insert your code example into [[Template:TOC_templates/styles.css]]? [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::It's at Index:&lt;var&gt;Name of work&lt;/var&gt;/styles.css. The easiest way to get there is to edit any page, scroll to the bottom and you'll see the CSS linked. If there's nothing there (which is true for 90%+ of works), it will be a red link. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:57, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Even easier, when you're in the index page, at the top left, next to &quot;index&quot; and &quot;discussion&quot; there is &quot;styles&quot;, which leads to the index css. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:08, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Those are incredibly straight-forward instructions, thank you both so much! I tried reading through the page on Wikipedia about TemplateStyles[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TemplateStyles], which &quot;work on all types of pages, not just templates, despite the name.&quot; I couldn't understand anything there without studying a bunch of other material. This ought to work on a sandbox page, so I can tinker with it and learn by doing, now. Thanks again!! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 05:11, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Happy to help. Not sure what your proficiency is with CSS, but if you need help with something, let me know: I'm pretty okay at tinkering with CSS, particularly prior to 4.0. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 05:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

The first template has been handled. The second template has me stumped bad. I've looked at several template, style.css pages, and help pages, but I still have no clue how to add dots to &lt;nowiki&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-l-dot-1 td:nth-child(2)&lt;/nowiki&gt;. It looks like several wrapper classes were needed to implement the dots in the first place, so maybe it's not as easy to replicate them in another td element. Or if it is easy, I have no clue how to identify the parent class/div names, nor the inheritance syntax for applying it. [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 00:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Weird symbols ==

Right before the title of many poems of [[Index:XLI poems.djvu]], there is a weird sort of symbol (ex [[Page:XLI poems.djvu/15]]). It's never the same. To me, it looks like a hastily hand-drawn circle. Given this, and that its position varies (horizontally close to the center but not centered), I think that it is an annotation of a librarian or whatnot, post-publication. And so I've concluded that these shouldn't be transcribed. Do you agree? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Given the inconsistent shapes, usage, and placement, I'd agree with the assumption that they aren't part of the work. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:Agreed that this seems to be someone scribbling in the book. I'd say assume that until you know otherwise (e.g. if you find another scan that has it). —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:46, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059899487&amp;seq=266&amp;q1=+the+sky+was+can+dy is a reprint of the poem a couple years later, and shows no sign of any such mark.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 02:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Case closed. 🙅 —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to everyone for the input! — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:49, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::You do a lot of great work around here and are very helpful. Let me thank you as well. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:55, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Problems with transcluded texts ==

Referring to: [[The Chinese language and how to learn it/The Written Language#]]

There are a large number of errors - figures turned into random modern characters, spaces added into words, characters deleted from words and spaces inserted into their places, chinese characters rendered as modern QWERTY symbols, etc.

In non-transcluded texts, I'd mark the page as problematic. What's the protocol for pointing out problems with a page (problems which the reader doesn't have the skill/knowledge to fix)? [[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] ([[User talk:Grayautumnday|talk]]) 17:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:This chapter was transcluded too early as some the pages are not proofread. Click on the page links in the left margin of the text for the problem pages and mark them as problematic in the Page: namespace. This will be represented in the status bar at the top of the transcluded text. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Documents with numbered pargraphs ==

I have a document where the paragraphs are numbered throughout the entire document; is there set (or recommended) way to implement these numbers?

Example page with the numbered paragraphs:[[Page:The_collapse_of_NATM_tunnels_at_Heathrow_Airport.pdf/9]] -- [[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:''(Wording error in original question fixed)'' --[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:51, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Hello @[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]],
::Two options come to mind. The first would be to implement these numbers with sidenotes, e.g. [[:Template:Sidenote]]. The problem is, sidenotes are trouble from a technical point of view, and the likelihood that they render correctly in both page and namespace is probably low. If you see my example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/9]], to reduce the left margin below the 11em default has led to the line numbers overflowing left (into the wiki toolbar links on the left). This will (sort of) correct itself once transcluded, although may look worse for wide layouts (e.g. layout 1). The other option, see example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/10]] is to use [[:Template:Pline]]. Adjusting the (now small) margin might not look so great either, but at least it isn't (at present) colliding with any text. It may also be possible to apply changes across the entire work with some custom css styles, if you are interested in pursuing the [[:Template:Pline]] option (e.g. changing the color or margin - please ask if unsure how to go about this).
::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 05:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Other possibility: a table. Where the left column is the para numbers, and the right column is the para. For unnumeberd paras (like titles) you can just leave the left cell empty. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:59, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The template {{tl|numbered div/s}} might be of help here. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:11, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: The issue would be with the margins: except by putting all paras in a numbered div even when they don't have a number, the unnumbered divs will be missing the left margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:: A table with the necessary styling templates could take the work beyond the expansion limit. Personally, I would use {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} on the single digit numbers for alighment. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 20:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Given no formatting would need to be added to the table from what I can see, I think it wouldn't go above PEIS. The text added per para would be |-\n|[a few digits, less than 10]||. So about 16 chars per para. That's shorter than a single {{tl|fqm}} invocation (109 chars). Styling can be done through index css.
::: Plus, {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} would mean not having the margins on the whole paragraphs, no? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Looking over the options folks suggested, using [[:Template:Pline]] seems like it might be the simplest approach. Bonus if the look of the Pline numbers can be modified.--[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 04:51, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: They have the css class {{code|wst-pline}}, so you can target them in index CSS with something like {{code|.wst-pline { color: inherit; font-size:inherit }}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:54, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: There is also {{tl|*!/s}}{{tl|*!/i}}{{tl|*!/e}} for doing block based lists. I wrote these to work around some limitations of wikitext lists, but for a 'list' of numbered paragraphs it would be a 'use-case'. You do have to mark the start of each item though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

== Rotated book ==

Most of the content pages of ''[https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000108920392&amp;seq=16 Christmas tree]'' are turned sideways (as in, the text's put in landscape rather than portrait mode).

Do you think that the rotation is part of the content, or was it just a technical device to allow for larger text? And so, should they be transcribed {{rotate|-90|rotated}} (which is technically doable) or normally ? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:What would be cool is if it had a button that would show the as published layout. [[:Index:Christmas Tree-EEC.djvu]] Did the book that was scanned have a silver page?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:10, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Maybe change the way a {{tl|class block}} works?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:12, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Technically, there wouldn't be an issue. I'm wondering on whether we ''should''. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:21, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]], a side note for future cases: it's nice, but don't bother generating files for me; I prefer to do it myself because of my OCR setup and a few other things; and that requires going through PDF first; so I don't use preexisting DJVUs.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: [[User:Alien333|Alien 333]]: Sorry for the (what for me would have been an) annoyance. I think it should be okay to upload in the same namespace; you know of the upload a new version link on the commons page?  I also did some images.  I have a pretty good cover and that first image, with the stars and such, I brightened the faded colors and I removed that underline from the &quot;C&quot;, because I think it is a librarian mark, just in red.  There seems to be an &quot;underlining the first letter of the title and first letter in the last name ritual&quot; that many libraries practice(d).  I am tempted to upload my image into your images namespace, but see the annoyance apology.

:::I am going to upload the cover and put that onto the header, but that can be easily reverted away.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:37, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: It's not an annoyance, no; it's just I thought you could spare yourself the effort since I'm not going to use them. If you want, you can reupload the illustrations under the same title if you've got better ones; it's specifically for the whole scans (the djvus) that I really like to do them myself. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], I am unsure what you do to your pdf files, but perhaps you could strip the watermarks from the pages?  If I were just picking a version to use, I would have picked the version without Google et al slapped on them.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:10, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: I would definitely appreciate watermark stripping. How do you do that? Last time I tried removing the google watermarks I got the impression that they were actually rasterised onto the jpgs and that they couldn't really be easily removed. I was probably wrong.
::: On my setup: it's essentially raw images (JP2 if from IA, else JPGs) -[https://gitlab.mister-muffin.de/josch/img2pdf img2pdf]&gt; pdfs -[https://github.com/ocrmypdf/OCRmyPDF ocrmypdf]&gt; pdfs with OCR -[https://github.com/jwilk-archive/pdf2djvu pdf2djvu]&gt; djvus.
::: The in-between PDF conversion is the weak spot, but with my setup I manage to get OCR greatly superior to what I can get on-site or on the internet, and ocrmypdf as the name says does only pdfs. [https://github.com/jwilk-archive/ocrodjvu ocrodjvu] looks promising but I never managed to get it up and running (missing dependencies not in my package manager IIRC) [[User:Inductiveload/Scripts/DJVU OCR]] also looks like a possible improvement, but it's python 2.X and I haven't bothered trying to update it (definitely should at some point).
::: To me, getting good OCR is more important than the actual page image; given of course that the image is still clear and legible.
::: I'd be interested if you have tips for file conversions. Regards, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)


:Based on the shape of the cover and the how the scan looks, I think it was printed {{rotate|-90|rotated}}. That said, I think it would look and read better on screen if transcribed non-rotated -- the same way we handle photos that are printed &quot;turned.&quot; &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 18:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Good point on the images - Thanks. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kvq2d77flr09wyk6g31rclota6m0bjs</sha1>
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 | shortcut = [[WS:S/H]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:H]]&lt;br /&gt;[[WS:RFA]]
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== [[Template:Symbol missing]] ==

This is supposed to add a specialized tracking category only if specifically mentioned, but it does so in every case. I’m not sure what the intended function is, though, so I hope someone else will make the appropriate change. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:52, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing something in the documentation, but the only if/then statement is &quot;if you have a character from a specific language or script, then choose that&quot; (e.g. Korean or Hebrew). If you insert {{tl|symbol missing}} then I think it's supposed to have the tracking category, near as I can tell. Can you give an example of a page that shouldn't be tracked but is? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]: The template will always produce ''a'' tracking category, but usually produces the ''wrong'' one: see [[Page:History of the Literature of Ancient Greece (Müller) 2ed.djvu/209]]. In this case, because there are no specified parameters, it should be put into the generic category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters]]), but is instead put in the specific category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters not in unicode]]). (In addition, “Unicode” should be capitalized.) [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:45, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Ah, I see. I think this is a non-issue, as it ''is'' in the generic one as well as the &quot;not in unicode&quot; one. For that matter, the &quot;Unicode&quot; issue is pretty trivial to fix, so I can do that now if it matters, but I also don't think that's a big issue. The template is somewhat inefficient or redundant, but everything is in the category it should be in, it's just ''also'' in a secondary and seemingly unnecessary one with a small typo. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 19:48, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:I just updated {{tl|symbol missing}} to fix this error, should hopefully behave properly now —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:04, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Colored Bulleted List ==

How do I make a bulleted list where the bullet points are colored? [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 16:58, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: CSS:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.whateverparentselector li::marker {
  color: whatevercolor;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
: Should do the trick. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:39, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== multicol template current best practices ==

I am using multicol for strict parallel columns across many pages, paragraph by paragraph (showing a translation).

1.  Is nop or nopt required when using this template?  (It seems not, since every page ends with multicol-end.)

2.  What is the best practice for paragraphs that span pages?  I have tried putting codes in the footer/header within the split (like for tables), but it does not work.  I have searched the Scriptorium archives and looked at a lot of pages/works that use multicol, trying to find examples.  The best I have found so far appears to be copying the entire rest of the paragraph (from the next page) into the footer of the page on which the paragraph begins, with a multicol-end code also in the footer, then using noinclude (?) for the same text on the next page (I may have that wrong).  Is this really the best way?  Thanks for any suggestions, and especially any links to pages using a particular technique, so that I may copy/paste. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 18:18, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]],
:Regarding point 1. Multicol breaks paragraphs between pages, whether you want it to or not (as you have seen). Thus, you do not need nop/nopt.
:Regarding point 2. I am not sure of the best practices for multicol per se, but using noinclude and includeonly should work. However, neither needs to be placed in the footer. I have provided an example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/99]]. Note also that hws/hwe doesn't help with noinclude/includeonly, and the hyphenated word has to be handled manually (as in the example). I also recommend transcluding as you go, to make sure this is all working, and to identify other pages in the text where noinclude/includeonly should be added.
:For reference, I believe the only way to avoid copy pasting text from page to page would be to use a raw html table, rather than the multicol environment. If you would prefer to do this, I could help set something up, but otherwise, the above should work.
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:28, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you so much!  I will study what you have done tomorrow.  I thought perhaps the &quot;answer&quot; was tables, but I am not very good at tables.  I have been transcluding at [[User:Laura1822/sandbox3]]. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 00:43, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
:::P.S. @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I did a little more testing, and you can probably save yourself some time by placing half the duplicate text in either the header/footer (as you said in your original post), to save you typing out the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; tags. Then you need only add the includeonly tags on the previous/next page. I have added another example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/97]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]], placing text from djvu/97 into the footer, and using includeonly on the next page (djvu/98), noting in this case that spaces should appear after the last word inside the includeonly tags, not before the first word outside the includeonly tags. I also modified the example on djvu/98 and djvu/99, this time moving text from djvu/99 into the header, and using includeonly on the previous page (djvu/98). Hopefully this will be slightly faster. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:37, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you.  I am studying.  I did experiment myself just a little in the paragraph from 98-99, because I saw that there is an extra blank line in the transcluded text.  I wondered if it was because the multicol-related templates were outside the include-related tags, but when I enclosed them all within the tag, it made no difference that I could see.  I still don't quite understand how it's all supposed to work, but I will study it some more.  Thank you for helping me. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 12:24, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I am not sure if there was an entire blank line, but I agree that there was a small gap in the 1px black line which runs along the center of the multicol environment. What I should have done (and which fixes the issue), is to start and end the multicolumn environment on the same page (so either duplicate all the content from the first page to the second, or duplicate all the content from the second page to the first; and if the multicol would have to span three pages, then you need a table, as far as I am aware). I have accordingly corrected the djvu 98-99 example (the djvu 97-98 example was already fine). Apologies for any past confusion, as I do not use multicol all that much. Note that you also want to place the &lt;nowiki&gt;line=1px solid&lt;/nowiki&gt; arguments in the multicol-section template calls in most cases. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:13, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you, I just figured out that last bit about the vertical line yesterday.  I use inverted colors so I thought I just wasn't seeing it because it was black on black, but it turns out that I simply misunderstood what I saw on a page in another book that I was copying from.  I will study what you changed.  I will get it all figured out eventually! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== include ==

Can anyone please direct me to a Help page that will explain the purpose of the tags includeonly, noinclude, and onlyinclude, explaining their purposes and how and why they are intended to be used? [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: We have no such page in WS, but [[w:WP:NOINCLUDE]] covers the three of them. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:14, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you!!!! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 16:29, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

== Continuing a TOC across multiple pages with TOC row template ==

I had an issue with the table of contents formatting for pages [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/18|18]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/19|19]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/20|20]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/191|191]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/192|192]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/193|193]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/194|194]], and [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/195|195]] of my transcription for ''[[The Life, Studies, and Works of Benjamin West]]''. I used the TOC row 1-dot-1 template, but couldn't figure out how to extend it over different pages when the table of contents continues. I'm sure there's a way to do this, but I don't have that knowledge. Any help would be appreciated. [[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]] ([[User talk:JohnSon12a|talk]]) 22:27, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: AFAIK there isn't really a clean way to make a single line continue across pages. The approach you took of moving the end of it to the previous page seems good to me. Though you should use a comment (&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!-- text here --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;) for such notes, rather than putting them visible in the content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:31, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
*[[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]]: I’m not sure that it’s possible with the TOC row family of templates, but if you switch to dtpl you can! For the part on the bottom of the first page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/top'' in the text body and ''dotted TOC page listing/suspend'' in the footer, and then on the top of the second page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/resume'' in the header and ''dotted TOC page listing/bottom'' in the body. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:45, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
*: {{tl|dtpl}} really shouldn't be used, because it gives unreasonably large outputs. See [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2022#Orley_Farm_Contents+Illustrations_Lists] for size comparisons. Why? dtpl makes one separate table for each row, plus its dot leader hack is noticeably worse than others (putting {{tl|gap}}s in there).
*: IMO the best solution that would include keeping content on its page, would be taking the first half of the markup of {{tl|TOC row 1-dot-1}}, putting it at the end of the first page, and putting the second half of the invocation at the top of the second page. ''I could try and make a TOC row template to do this, one of these days.''' — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:54, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== The Mythology of All Races ==

Dear Friends.

I just looked at The Mythology of All Races. It seems to me that all the volumes are out of copyrights, yet there are many tomes that have red links. As a person that kind of likes mythologies, this makes me sad. Could I do something about this? Still, the books look kinda longish, I believe I would need to manually check every page, and I have some other projects right now to keep me busy, thus, I cannot promise anything in my current situation.

How much, do you think, as experienced users, time would be needed to be spent in order to publish all the tomes of this collection? And how hard and time-consuming is following all the steps in adding new content to Wikisources?

Best wishes!

-- [[User:Kaworu1992|Kaworu1992]] ([[User talk:Kaworu1992|talk]]) 00:02, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: It depends on how much time you have daily, but I'd say one or two weeks per 400-page volume, so if one person were to focus only on this it would perhaps take somewhere between two and four months. (This is a ''very'' rough approximation; the actual time something takes also depends on IRL events, on complexity of formatting, on motivation, on OCR quality, and whatnot. The question of &quot;how long will this take&quot; is really hard to answer.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Issue with imported file ==

I am attempting to create an index for ''The Making of Americans'' by Gertrude Stein. I used IA-upload to create a .djvu located at [[:File:The_Making_of_Americans,_1925.djvu]]. The file currently is listed as having 1,000×1,500 px. dimensions on Wikimedia Commons but is listed as having 0×0 px. dimensions on Wikisource. I do not know why this happened or how to fix it, and there does not seem to be documentation about this. Please help.

[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]] ([[User talk:Alef.person|talk]]) 00:15, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

:You may need to clear your cache.  It is displaying correctly for me. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:49, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The 0x0 bug that DJVUs get (as opposed to the PDF-specific one) disappears quite fase; probably the servers emptied their cache in the two-ish hours.
:: @[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]]: in general the way to fix this is to purge the server's cache; for this you can use the &quot;UTCLiveClock&quot; gadget from [[c:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:34, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== Search *inside* all works by author? ==

Let's say I heard of a saying (eg. &quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;) attributed to a particular author (&quot;Giambattista Vico&quot;), and I want to find out where and if the author himself actually uses this expression. I would search for &quot;ricorsi&quot;, but global full-text search is way too much information to sift through, and the only other option is manually searching all works, which is still very time-consuming.

Any ideas for searching all works all at once? [[User:AddyLockPool|AddyLockPool]] ([[User talk:AddyLockPool|talk]]) 10:35, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
: I'd do {{tqi|insource:&quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;}}, and then turn on all namespaces. Ought to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:55, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

== I think I need two new TOC-row templates ==

Per my current [[User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox|sandbox]] example, I'm trying to format a TOC with the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; templates, and I can get really close to the source format, but I'm encountering a couple hangups. Specifically, I'm using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-1-1-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and I don't know how to how to get the 2nd and 3rd columns center aligned, like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-c-c-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, which doesn't exist.

But that one's just the header row, so maybe there's another workaround that doesn't involve the creation of a 56th template.

The other hangup is the need for dots and left-alignment in the 2nd column, via something like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-ldot-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;. The closest existing template I could find is [[Template:TOC row 1-l-dot-1|&lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;]].

I'm open to any kind of suggestions. Thanks everybody! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:40, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: IMO, this doesn't warrant new templates. Just use CSS. For alignment, you can use index CSS to realign everything. For instance: &lt;code&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(2), .wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(3) { text-align:center }&lt;/code&gt;. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:13, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Is there any documentation here that helps with explaining how to do this? CSS is great for those who know how to parse and write it, as well as when there are good examples in the documentation (like adding AuxTOC coloring to a TOC-row template), but in other cases finding a template or combination of templates is more straightforward. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 14:12, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Okay. How do I access the index.css for a page? Should I insert your code example into [[Template:TOC_templates/styles.css]]? [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::It's at Index:&lt;var&gt;Name of work&lt;/var&gt;/styles.css. The easiest way to get there is to edit any page, scroll to the bottom and you'll see the CSS linked. If there's nothing there (which is true for 90%+ of works), it will be a red link. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:57, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Even easier, when you're in the index page, at the top left, next to &quot;index&quot; and &quot;discussion&quot; there is &quot;styles&quot;, which leads to the index css. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:08, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Those are incredibly straight-forward instructions, thank you both so much! I tried reading through the page on Wikipedia about TemplateStyles[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TemplateStyles], which &quot;work on all types of pages, not just templates, despite the name.&quot; I couldn't understand anything there without studying a bunch of other material. This ought to work on a sandbox page, so I can tinker with it and learn by doing, now. Thanks again!! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 05:11, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Happy to help. Not sure what your proficiency is with CSS, but if you need help with something, let me know: I'm pretty okay at tinkering with CSS, particularly prior to 4.0. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 05:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

The first template has been handled. The second template has me stumped bad. I've looked at several template, style.css pages, and help pages, but I still have no clue how to add dots to &lt;nowiki&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-l-dot-1 td:nth-child(2)&lt;/nowiki&gt;. It looks like several wrapper classes were needed to implement the dots in the first place, so maybe it's not as easy to replicate them in another td element. Or if it is easy, I have no clue how to identify the parent class/div names, nor the inheritance syntax for applying it. [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 00:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Weird symbols ==

Right before the title of many poems of [[Index:XLI poems.djvu]], there is a weird sort of symbol (ex [[Page:XLI poems.djvu/15]]). It's never the same. To me, it looks like a hastily hand-drawn circle. Given this, and that its position varies (horizontally close to the center but not centered), I think that it is an annotation of a librarian or whatnot, post-publication. And so I've concluded that these shouldn't be transcribed. Do you agree? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Given the inconsistent shapes, usage, and placement, I'd agree with the assumption that they aren't part of the work. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:Agreed that this seems to be someone scribbling in the book. I'd say assume that until you know otherwise (e.g. if you find another scan that has it). —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:46, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059899487&amp;seq=266&amp;q1=+the+sky+was+can+dy is a reprint of the poem a couple years later, and shows no sign of any such mark.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 02:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Case closed. 🙅 —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to everyone for the input! — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:49, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::You do a lot of great work around here and are very helpful. Let me thank you as well. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:55, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Problems with transcluded texts ==

Referring to: [[The Chinese language and how to learn it/The Written Language#]]

There are a large number of errors - figures turned into random modern characters, spaces added into words, characters deleted from words and spaces inserted into their places, chinese characters rendered as modern QWERTY symbols, etc.

In non-transcluded texts, I'd mark the page as problematic. What's the protocol for pointing out problems with a page (problems which the reader doesn't have the skill/knowledge to fix)? [[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] ([[User talk:Grayautumnday|talk]]) 17:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:This chapter was transcluded too early as some the pages are not proofread. Click on the page links in the left margin of the text for the problem pages and mark them as problematic in the Page: namespace. This will be represented in the status bar at the top of the transcluded text. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Documents with numbered pargraphs ==

I have a document where the paragraphs are numbered throughout the entire document; is there set (or recommended) way to implement these numbers?

Example page with the numbered paragraphs:[[Page:The_collapse_of_NATM_tunnels_at_Heathrow_Airport.pdf/9]] -- [[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:''(Wording error in original question fixed)'' --[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:51, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Hello @[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]],
::Two options come to mind. The first would be to implement these numbers with sidenotes, e.g. [[:Template:Sidenote]]. The problem is, sidenotes are trouble from a technical point of view, and the likelihood that they render correctly in both page and namespace is probably low. If you see my example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/9]], to reduce the left margin below the 11em default has led to the line numbers overflowing left (into the wiki toolbar links on the left). This will (sort of) correct itself once transcluded, although may look worse for wide layouts (e.g. layout 1). The other option, see example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/10]] is to use [[:Template:Pline]]. Adjusting the (now small) margin might not look so great either, but at least it isn't (at present) colliding with any text. It may also be possible to apply changes across the entire work with some custom css styles, if you are interested in pursuing the [[:Template:Pline]] option (e.g. changing the color or margin - please ask if unsure how to go about this).
::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 05:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Other possibility: a table. Where the left column is the para numbers, and the right column is the para. For unnumeberd paras (like titles) you can just leave the left cell empty. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:59, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The template {{tl|numbered div/s}} might be of help here. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:11, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: The issue would be with the margins: except by putting all paras in a numbered div even when they don't have a number, the unnumbered divs will be missing the left margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:: A table with the necessary styling templates could take the work beyond the expansion limit. Personally, I would use {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} on the single digit numbers for alighment. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 20:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Given no formatting would need to be added to the table from what I can see, I think it wouldn't go above PEIS. The text added per para would be |-\n|[a few digits, less than 10]||. So about 16 chars per para. That's shorter than a single {{tl|fqm}} invocation (109 chars). Styling can be done through index css.
::: Plus, {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} would mean not having the margins on the whole paragraphs, no? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Looking over the options folks suggested, using [[:Template:Pline]] seems like it might be the simplest approach. Bonus if the look of the Pline numbers can be modified.--[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 04:51, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: They have the css class {{code|wst-pline}}, so you can target them in index CSS with something like {{code|.wst-pline { color: inherit; font-size:inherit }}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:54, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: There is also {{tl|*!/s}}{{tl|*!/i}}{{tl|*!/e}} for doing block based lists. I wrote these to work around some limitations of wikitext lists, but for a 'list' of numbered paragraphs it would be a 'use-case'. You do have to mark the start of each item though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

== Rotated book ==

Most of the content pages of ''[https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000108920392&amp;seq=16 Christmas tree]'' are turned sideways (as in, the text's put in landscape rather than portrait mode).

Do you think that the rotation is part of the content, or was it just a technical device to allow for larger text? And so, should they be transcribed {{rotate|-90|rotated}} (which is technically doable) or normally ? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:What would be cool is if it had a button that would show the as published layout. [[:Index:Christmas Tree-EEC.djvu]] Did the book that was scanned have a silver page?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:10, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Maybe change the way a {{tl|class block}} works?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:12, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Technically, there wouldn't be an issue. I'm wondering on whether we ''should''. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:21, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]], a side note for future cases: it's nice, but don't bother generating files for me; I prefer to do it myself because of my OCR setup and a few other things; and that requires going through PDF first; so I don't use preexisting DJVUs.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: [[User:Alien333|Alien 333]]: Sorry for the (what for me would have been an) annoyance. I think it should be okay to upload in the same namespace; you know of the upload a new version link on the commons page?  I also did some images.  I have a pretty good cover and that first image, with the stars and such, I brightened the faded colors and I removed that underline from the &quot;C&quot;, because I think it is a librarian mark, just in red.  There seems to be an &quot;underlining the first letter of the title and first letter in the last name ritual&quot; that many libraries practice(d).  I am tempted to upload my image into your images namespace, but see the annoyance apology.

:::I am going to upload the cover and put that onto the header, but that can be easily reverted away.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:37, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: It's not an annoyance, no; it's just I thought you could spare yourself the effort since I'm not going to use them. If you want, you can reupload the illustrations under the same title if you've got better ones; it's specifically for the whole scans (the djvus) that I really like to do them myself. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], I am unsure what you do to your pdf files, but perhaps you could strip the watermarks from the pages?  If I were just picking a version to use, I would have picked the version without Google et al slapped on them.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:10, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: I would definitely appreciate watermark stripping. How do you do that? Last time I tried removing the google watermarks I got the impression that they were actually rasterised onto the jpgs and that they couldn't really be easily removed. I was probably wrong.
::: On my setup: it's essentially raw images (JP2 if from IA, else JPGs) -[https://gitlab.mister-muffin.de/josch/img2pdf img2pdf]&gt; pdfs -[https://github.com/ocrmypdf/OCRmyPDF ocrmypdf]&gt; pdfs with OCR -[https://github.com/jwilk-archive/pdf2djvu pdf2djvu]&gt; djvus.
::: The in-between PDF conversion is the weak spot, but with my setup I manage to get OCR greatly superior to what I can get on-site or on the internet, and ocrmypdf as the name says does only pdfs. [https://github.com/jwilk-archive/ocrodjvu ocrodjvu] looks promising but I never managed to get it up and running (missing dependencies not in my package manager IIRC) [[User:Inductiveload/Scripts/DJVU OCR]] also looks like a possible improvement, but it's python 2.X and I haven't bothered trying to update it (definitely should at some point).
::: To me, getting good OCR is more important than the actual page image; given of course that the image is still clear and legible.
::: I'd be interested if you have tips for file conversions. Regards, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Removing watermarks can be easily done with Hathi PDF using xpdf tools. If you have evince installed, try typing &quot;pdf&quot; at a cmdline and tab to show what tools you have. It will be obvious from that list. My tesseract is good, but the djvu software seems to be having problems with some characters. I want to fix the first problem with all my computer first to verify that though.

:::: The watermarks are embedded in the Hathi downloads which are not pdf.

:::: If there is a dislike here after non-scan backed works, it is any irrelevant watermarks and/or logos. I have been told I was wrong, but I blame the option to remove the &quot;ugly&quot; Google and Hathi cover pages for IAUpload's brokenness.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 18:54, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Based on the shape of the cover and the how the scan looks, I think it was printed {{rotate|-90|rotated}}. That said, I think it would look and read better on screen if transcribed non-rotated -- the same way we handle photos that are printed &quot;turned.&quot; &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 18:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Good point on the images - Thanks. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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== [[Template:Symbol missing]] ==

This is supposed to add a specialized tracking category only if specifically mentioned, but it does so in every case. I’m not sure what the intended function is, though, so I hope someone else will make the appropriate change. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:52, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing something in the documentation, but the only if/then statement is &quot;if you have a character from a specific language or script, then choose that&quot; (e.g. Korean or Hebrew). If you insert {{tl|symbol missing}} then I think it's supposed to have the tracking category, near as I can tell. Can you give an example of a page that shouldn't be tracked but is? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]: The template will always produce ''a'' tracking category, but usually produces the ''wrong'' one: see [[Page:History of the Literature of Ancient Greece (Müller) 2ed.djvu/209]]. In this case, because there are no specified parameters, it should be put into the generic category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters]]), but is instead put in the specific category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters not in unicode]]). (In addition, “Unicode” should be capitalized.) [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:45, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Ah, I see. I think this is a non-issue, as it ''is'' in the generic one as well as the &quot;not in unicode&quot; one. For that matter, the &quot;Unicode&quot; issue is pretty trivial to fix, so I can do that now if it matters, but I also don't think that's a big issue. The template is somewhat inefficient or redundant, but everything is in the category it should be in, it's just ''also'' in a secondary and seemingly unnecessary one with a small typo. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 19:48, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:I just updated {{tl|symbol missing}} to fix this error, should hopefully behave properly now —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:04, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Colored Bulleted List ==

How do I make a bulleted list where the bullet points are colored? [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 16:58, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: CSS:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.whateverparentselector li::marker {
  color: whatevercolor;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
: Should do the trick. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:39, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== multicol template current best practices ==

I am using multicol for strict parallel columns across many pages, paragraph by paragraph (showing a translation).

1.  Is nop or nopt required when using this template?  (It seems not, since every page ends with multicol-end.)

2.  What is the best practice for paragraphs that span pages?  I have tried putting codes in the footer/header within the split (like for tables), but it does not work.  I have searched the Scriptorium archives and looked at a lot of pages/works that use multicol, trying to find examples.  The best I have found so far appears to be copying the entire rest of the paragraph (from the next page) into the footer of the page on which the paragraph begins, with a multicol-end code also in the footer, then using noinclude (?) for the same text on the next page (I may have that wrong).  Is this really the best way?  Thanks for any suggestions, and especially any links to pages using a particular technique, so that I may copy/paste. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 18:18, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]],
:Regarding point 1. Multicol breaks paragraphs between pages, whether you want it to or not (as you have seen). Thus, you do not need nop/nopt.
:Regarding point 2. I am not sure of the best practices for multicol per se, but using noinclude and includeonly should work. However, neither needs to be placed in the footer. I have provided an example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/99]]. Note also that hws/hwe doesn't help with noinclude/includeonly, and the hyphenated word has to be handled manually (as in the example). I also recommend transcluding as you go, to make sure this is all working, and to identify other pages in the text where noinclude/includeonly should be added.
:For reference, I believe the only way to avoid copy pasting text from page to page would be to use a raw html table, rather than the multicol environment. If you would prefer to do this, I could help set something up, but otherwise, the above should work.
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:28, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you so much!  I will study what you have done tomorrow.  I thought perhaps the &quot;answer&quot; was tables, but I am not very good at tables.  I have been transcluding at [[User:Laura1822/sandbox3]]. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 00:43, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
:::P.S. @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I did a little more testing, and you can probably save yourself some time by placing half the duplicate text in either the header/footer (as you said in your original post), to save you typing out the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; tags. Then you need only add the includeonly tags on the previous/next page. I have added another example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/97]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]], placing text from djvu/97 into the footer, and using includeonly on the next page (djvu/98), noting in this case that spaces should appear after the last word inside the includeonly tags, not before the first word outside the includeonly tags. I also modified the example on djvu/98 and djvu/99, this time moving text from djvu/99 into the header, and using includeonly on the previous page (djvu/98). Hopefully this will be slightly faster. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:37, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you.  I am studying.  I did experiment myself just a little in the paragraph from 98-99, because I saw that there is an extra blank line in the transcluded text.  I wondered if it was because the multicol-related templates were outside the include-related tags, but when I enclosed them all within the tag, it made no difference that I could see.  I still don't quite understand how it's all supposed to work, but I will study it some more.  Thank you for helping me. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 12:24, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I am not sure if there was an entire blank line, but I agree that there was a small gap in the 1px black line which runs along the center of the multicol environment. What I should have done (and which fixes the issue), is to start and end the multicolumn environment on the same page (so either duplicate all the content from the first page to the second, or duplicate all the content from the second page to the first; and if the multicol would have to span three pages, then you need a table, as far as I am aware). I have accordingly corrected the djvu 98-99 example (the djvu 97-98 example was already fine). Apologies for any past confusion, as I do not use multicol all that much. Note that you also want to place the &lt;nowiki&gt;line=1px solid&lt;/nowiki&gt; arguments in the multicol-section template calls in most cases. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:13, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you, I just figured out that last bit about the vertical line yesterday.  I use inverted colors so I thought I just wasn't seeing it because it was black on black, but it turns out that I simply misunderstood what I saw on a page in another book that I was copying from.  I will study what you changed.  I will get it all figured out eventually! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== include ==

Can anyone please direct me to a Help page that will explain the purpose of the tags includeonly, noinclude, and onlyinclude, explaining their purposes and how and why they are intended to be used? [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: We have no such page in WS, but [[w:WP:NOINCLUDE]] covers the three of them. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:14, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you!!!! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 16:29, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

== Continuing a TOC across multiple pages with TOC row template ==

I had an issue with the table of contents formatting for pages [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/18|18]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/19|19]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/20|20]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/191|191]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/192|192]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/193|193]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/194|194]], and [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/195|195]] of my transcription for ''[[The Life, Studies, and Works of Benjamin West]]''. I used the TOC row 1-dot-1 template, but couldn't figure out how to extend it over different pages when the table of contents continues. I'm sure there's a way to do this, but I don't have that knowledge. Any help would be appreciated. [[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]] ([[User talk:JohnSon12a|talk]]) 22:27, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: AFAIK there isn't really a clean way to make a single line continue across pages. The approach you took of moving the end of it to the previous page seems good to me. Though you should use a comment (&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!-- text here --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;) for such notes, rather than putting them visible in the content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:31, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
*[[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]]: I’m not sure that it’s possible with the TOC row family of templates, but if you switch to dtpl you can! For the part on the bottom of the first page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/top'' in the text body and ''dotted TOC page listing/suspend'' in the footer, and then on the top of the second page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/resume'' in the header and ''dotted TOC page listing/bottom'' in the body. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:45, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
*: {{tl|dtpl}} really shouldn't be used, because it gives unreasonably large outputs. See [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2022#Orley_Farm_Contents+Illustrations_Lists] for size comparisons. Why? dtpl makes one separate table for each row, plus its dot leader hack is noticeably worse than others (putting {{tl|gap}}s in there).
*: IMO the best solution that would include keeping content on its page, would be taking the first half of the markup of {{tl|TOC row 1-dot-1}}, putting it at the end of the first page, and putting the second half of the invocation at the top of the second page. ''I could try and make a TOC row template to do this, one of these days.''' — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:54, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== The Mythology of All Races ==

Dear Friends.

I just looked at The Mythology of All Races. It seems to me that all the volumes are out of copyrights, yet there are many tomes that have red links. As a person that kind of likes mythologies, this makes me sad. Could I do something about this? Still, the books look kinda longish, I believe I would need to manually check every page, and I have some other projects right now to keep me busy, thus, I cannot promise anything in my current situation.

How much, do you think, as experienced users, time would be needed to be spent in order to publish all the tomes of this collection? And how hard and time-consuming is following all the steps in adding new content to Wikisources?

Best wishes!

-- [[User:Kaworu1992|Kaworu1992]] ([[User talk:Kaworu1992|talk]]) 00:02, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: It depends on how much time you have daily, but I'd say one or two weeks per 400-page volume, so if one person were to focus only on this it would perhaps take somewhere between two and four months. (This is a ''very'' rough approximation; the actual time something takes also depends on IRL events, on complexity of formatting, on motivation, on OCR quality, and whatnot. The question of &quot;how long will this take&quot; is really hard to answer.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Issue with imported file ==

I am attempting to create an index for ''The Making of Americans'' by Gertrude Stein. I used IA-upload to create a .djvu located at [[:File:The_Making_of_Americans,_1925.djvu]]. The file currently is listed as having 1,000×1,500 px. dimensions on Wikimedia Commons but is listed as having 0×0 px. dimensions on Wikisource. I do not know why this happened or how to fix it, and there does not seem to be documentation about this. Please help.

[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]] ([[User talk:Alef.person|talk]]) 00:15, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

:You may need to clear your cache.  It is displaying correctly for me. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:49, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The 0x0 bug that DJVUs get (as opposed to the PDF-specific one) disappears quite fase; probably the servers emptied their cache in the two-ish hours.
:: @[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]]: in general the way to fix this is to purge the server's cache; for this you can use the &quot;UTCLiveClock&quot; gadget from [[c:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:34, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== Search *inside* all works by author? ==

Let's say I heard of a saying (eg. &quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;) attributed to a particular author (&quot;Giambattista Vico&quot;), and I want to find out where and if the author himself actually uses this expression. I would search for &quot;ricorsi&quot;, but global full-text search is way too much information to sift through, and the only other option is manually searching all works, which is still very time-consuming.

Any ideas for searching all works all at once? [[User:AddyLockPool|AddyLockPool]] ([[User talk:AddyLockPool|talk]]) 10:35, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
: I'd do {{tqi|insource:&quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;}}, and then turn on all namespaces. Ought to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:55, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

== I think I need two new TOC-row templates ==

Per my current [[User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox|sandbox]] example, I'm trying to format a TOC with the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; templates, and I can get really close to the source format, but I'm encountering a couple hangups. Specifically, I'm using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-1-1-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and I don't know how to how to get the 2nd and 3rd columns center aligned, like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-c-c-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, which doesn't exist.

But that one's just the header row, so maybe there's another workaround that doesn't involve the creation of a 56th template.

The other hangup is the need for dots and left-alignment in the 2nd column, via something like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-ldot-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;. The closest existing template I could find is [[Template:TOC row 1-l-dot-1|&lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;]].

I'm open to any kind of suggestions. Thanks everybody! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:40, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: IMO, this doesn't warrant new templates. Just use CSS. For alignment, you can use index CSS to realign everything. For instance: &lt;code&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(2), .wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(3) { text-align:center }&lt;/code&gt;. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:13, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Is there any documentation here that helps with explaining how to do this? CSS is great for those who know how to parse and write it, as well as when there are good examples in the documentation (like adding AuxTOC coloring to a TOC-row template), but in other cases finding a template or combination of templates is more straightforward. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 14:12, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Okay. How do I access the index.css for a page? Should I insert your code example into [[Template:TOC_templates/styles.css]]? [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::It's at Index:&lt;var&gt;Name of work&lt;/var&gt;/styles.css. The easiest way to get there is to edit any page, scroll to the bottom and you'll see the CSS linked. If there's nothing there (which is true for 90%+ of works), it will be a red link. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:57, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Even easier, when you're in the index page, at the top left, next to &quot;index&quot; and &quot;discussion&quot; there is &quot;styles&quot;, which leads to the index css. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:08, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Those are incredibly straight-forward instructions, thank you both so much! I tried reading through the page on Wikipedia about TemplateStyles[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TemplateStyles], which &quot;work on all types of pages, not just templates, despite the name.&quot; I couldn't understand anything there without studying a bunch of other material. This ought to work on a sandbox page, so I can tinker with it and learn by doing, now. Thanks again!! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 05:11, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Happy to help. Not sure what your proficiency is with CSS, but if you need help with something, let me know: I'm pretty okay at tinkering with CSS, particularly prior to 4.0. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 05:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

The first template has been handled. The second template has me stumped bad. I've looked at several template, style.css pages, and help pages, but I still have no clue how to add dots to &lt;nowiki&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-l-dot-1 td:nth-child(2)&lt;/nowiki&gt;. It looks like several wrapper classes were needed to implement the dots in the first place, so maybe it's not as easy to replicate them in another td element. Or if it is easy, I have no clue how to identify the parent class/div names, nor the inheritance syntax for applying it. [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 00:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Weird symbols ==

Right before the title of many poems of [[Index:XLI poems.djvu]], there is a weird sort of symbol (ex [[Page:XLI poems.djvu/15]]). It's never the same. To me, it looks like a hastily hand-drawn circle. Given this, and that its position varies (horizontally close to the center but not centered), I think that it is an annotation of a librarian or whatnot, post-publication. And so I've concluded that these shouldn't be transcribed. Do you agree? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Given the inconsistent shapes, usage, and placement, I'd agree with the assumption that they aren't part of the work. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:Agreed that this seems to be someone scribbling in the book. I'd say assume that until you know otherwise (e.g. if you find another scan that has it). —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:46, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059899487&amp;seq=266&amp;q1=+the+sky+was+can+dy is a reprint of the poem a couple years later, and shows no sign of any such mark.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 02:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Case closed. 🙅 —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to everyone for the input! — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:49, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::You do a lot of great work around here and are very helpful. Let me thank you as well. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:55, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Problems with transcluded texts ==

Referring to: [[The Chinese language and how to learn it/The Written Language#]]

There are a large number of errors - figures turned into random modern characters, spaces added into words, characters deleted from words and spaces inserted into their places, chinese characters rendered as modern QWERTY symbols, etc.

In non-transcluded texts, I'd mark the page as problematic. What's the protocol for pointing out problems with a page (problems which the reader doesn't have the skill/knowledge to fix)? [[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] ([[User talk:Grayautumnday|talk]]) 17:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:This chapter was transcluded too early as some the pages are not proofread. Click on the page links in the left margin of the text for the problem pages and mark them as problematic in the Page: namespace. This will be represented in the status bar at the top of the transcluded text. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Documents with numbered pargraphs ==

I have a document where the paragraphs are numbered throughout the entire document; is there set (or recommended) way to implement these numbers?

Example page with the numbered paragraphs:[[Page:The_collapse_of_NATM_tunnels_at_Heathrow_Airport.pdf/9]] -- [[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:''(Wording error in original question fixed)'' --[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:51, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Hello @[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]],
::Two options come to mind. The first would be to implement these numbers with sidenotes, e.g. [[:Template:Sidenote]]. The problem is, sidenotes are trouble from a technical point of view, and the likelihood that they render correctly in both page and namespace is probably low. If you see my example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/9]], to reduce the left margin below the 11em default has led to the line numbers overflowing left (into the wiki toolbar links on the left). This will (sort of) correct itself once transcluded, although may look worse for wide layouts (e.g. layout 1). The other option, see example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/10]] is to use [[:Template:Pline]]. Adjusting the (now small) margin might not look so great either, but at least it isn't (at present) colliding with any text. It may also be possible to apply changes across the entire work with some custom css styles, if you are interested in pursuing the [[:Template:Pline]] option (e.g. changing the color or margin - please ask if unsure how to go about this).
::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 05:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Other possibility: a table. Where the left column is the para numbers, and the right column is the para. For unnumeberd paras (like titles) you can just leave the left cell empty. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:59, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The template {{tl|numbered div/s}} might be of help here. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:11, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: The issue would be with the margins: except by putting all paras in a numbered div even when they don't have a number, the unnumbered divs will be missing the left margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:: A table with the necessary styling templates could take the work beyond the expansion limit. Personally, I would use {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} on the single digit numbers for alighment. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 20:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Given no formatting would need to be added to the table from what I can see, I think it wouldn't go above PEIS. The text added per para would be |-\n|[a few digits, less than 10]||. So about 16 chars per para. That's shorter than a single {{tl|fqm}} invocation (109 chars). Styling can be done through index css.
::: Plus, {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} would mean not having the margins on the whole paragraphs, no? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Looking over the options folks suggested, using [[:Template:Pline]] seems like it might be the simplest approach. Bonus if the look of the Pline numbers can be modified.--[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 04:51, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: They have the css class {{code|wst-pline}}, so you can target them in index CSS with something like {{code|.wst-pline { color: inherit; font-size:inherit }}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:54, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: There is also {{tl|*!/s}}{{tl|*!/i}}{{tl|*!/e}} for doing block based lists. I wrote these to work around some limitations of wikitext lists, but for a 'list' of numbered paragraphs it would be a 'use-case'. You do have to mark the start of each item though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

== Rotated book ==

Most of the content pages of ''[https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000108920392&amp;seq=16 Christmas tree]'' are turned sideways (as in, the text's put in landscape rather than portrait mode).

Do you think that the rotation is part of the content, or was it just a technical device to allow for larger text? And so, should they be transcribed {{rotate|-90|rotated}} (which is technically doable) or normally ? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:What would be cool is if it had a button that would show the as published layout. [[:Index:Christmas Tree-EEC.djvu]] Did the book that was scanned have a silver page?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:10, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Maybe change the way a {{tl|class block}} works?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:12, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Technically, there wouldn't be an issue. I'm wondering on whether we ''should''. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:21, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]], a side note for future cases: it's nice, but don't bother generating files for me; I prefer to do it myself because of my OCR setup and a few other things; and that requires going through PDF first; so I don't use preexisting DJVUs.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: [[User:Alien333|Alien 333]]: Sorry for the (what for me would have been an) annoyance. I think it should be okay to upload in the same namespace; you know of the upload a new version link on the commons page?  I also did some images.  I have a pretty good cover and that first image, with the stars and such, I brightened the faded colors and I removed that underline from the &quot;C&quot;, because I think it is a librarian mark, just in red.  There seems to be an &quot;underlining the first letter of the title and first letter in the last name ritual&quot; that many libraries practice(d).  I am tempted to upload my image into your images namespace, but see the annoyance apology.

:::I am going to upload the cover and put that onto the header, but that can be easily reverted away.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:37, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: It's not an annoyance, no; it's just I thought you could spare yourself the effort since I'm not going to use them. If you want, you can reupload the illustrations under the same title if you've got better ones; it's specifically for the whole scans (the djvus) that I really like to do them myself. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], I am unsure what you do to your pdf files, but perhaps you could strip the watermarks from the pages?  If I were just picking a version to use, I would have picked the version without Google et al slapped on them.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:10, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: I would definitely appreciate watermark stripping. How do you do that? Last time I tried removing the google watermarks I got the impression that they were actually rasterised onto the jpgs and that they couldn't really be easily removed. I was probably wrong.
::: On my setup: it's essentially raw images (JP2 if from IA, else JPGs) -[https://gitlab.mister-muffin.de/josch/img2pdf img2pdf]&gt; pdfs -[https://github.com/ocrmypdf/OCRmyPDF ocrmypdf]&gt; pdfs with OCR -[https://github.com/jwilk-archive/pdf2djvu pdf2djvu]&gt; djvus.
::: The in-between PDF conversion is the weak spot, but with my setup I manage to get OCR greatly superior to what I can get on-site or on the internet, and ocrmypdf as the name says does only pdfs. [https://github.com/jwilk-archive/ocrodjvu ocrodjvu] looks promising but I never managed to get it up and running (missing dependencies not in my package manager IIRC) [[User:Inductiveload/Scripts/DJVU OCR]] also looks like a possible improvement, but it's python 2.X and I haven't bothered trying to update it (definitely should at some point).
::: To me, getting good OCR is more important than the actual page image; given of course that the image is still clear and legible.
::: I'd be interested if you have tips for file conversions. Regards, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Removing watermarks can be easily done with Hathi PDF using xpdf tools. If you have evince installed, try typing &quot;pdf&quot; at a cmdline and tab to show what tools you have. It will be obvious from that list. My tesseract is good, but the djvu software seems to be having problems with some characters. I want to fix the first problem with all my computer first to verify that though.

:::: The watermarks are embedded in the Hathi downloads which are not pdf.

:::: If there is a dislike here after non-scan backed works, it is any irrelevant watermarks and/or logos. I have been told I was wrong, but I blame the option to remove the &quot;ugly&quot; Google and Hathi cover pages for IAUpload's brokenness.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 18:54, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: Could you describe precisely your method for removing google tags? (I do have all the xpdf tools.)
::::: Of course, the watermarks don't really matter that much. It's just a small annoyance. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)


:Based on the shape of the cover and the how the scan looks, I think it was printed {{rotate|-90|rotated}}. That said, I think it would look and read better on screen if transcribed non-rotated -- the same way we handle photos that are printed &quot;turned.&quot; &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 18:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Good point on the images - Thanks. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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== [[Template:Symbol missing]] ==

This is supposed to add a specialized tracking category only if specifically mentioned, but it does so in every case. I’m not sure what the intended function is, though, so I hope someone else will make the appropriate change. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:52, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing something in the documentation, but the only if/then statement is &quot;if you have a character from a specific language or script, then choose that&quot; (e.g. Korean or Hebrew). If you insert {{tl|symbol missing}} then I think it's supposed to have the tracking category, near as I can tell. Can you give an example of a page that shouldn't be tracked but is? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]: The template will always produce ''a'' tracking category, but usually produces the ''wrong'' one: see [[Page:History of the Literature of Ancient Greece (Müller) 2ed.djvu/209]]. In this case, because there are no specified parameters, it should be put into the generic category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters]]), but is instead put in the specific category ([[:Category:Pages with missing symbol characters not in unicode]]). (In addition, “Unicode” should be capitalized.) [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:45, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:Ah, I see. I think this is a non-issue, as it ''is'' in the generic one as well as the &quot;not in unicode&quot; one. For that matter, the &quot;Unicode&quot; issue is pretty trivial to fix, so I can do that now if it matters, but I also don't think that's a big issue. The template is somewhat inefficient or redundant, but everything is in the category it should be in, it's just ''also'' in a secondary and seemingly unnecessary one with a small typo. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 19:48, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
:*:I just updated {{tl|symbol missing}} to fix this error, should hopefully behave properly now —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:04, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== Colored Bulleted List ==

How do I make a bulleted list where the bullet points are colored? [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 16:58, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
: CSS:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot;&gt;
.whateverparentselector li::marker {
  color: whatevercolor;
}
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
: Should do the trick. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:39, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

== multicol template current best practices ==

I am using multicol for strict parallel columns across many pages, paragraph by paragraph (showing a translation).

1.  Is nop or nopt required when using this template?  (It seems not, since every page ends with multicol-end.)

2.  What is the best practice for paragraphs that span pages?  I have tried putting codes in the footer/header within the split (like for tables), but it does not work.  I have searched the Scriptorium archives and looked at a lot of pages/works that use multicol, trying to find examples.  The best I have found so far appears to be copying the entire rest of the paragraph (from the next page) into the footer of the page on which the paragraph begins, with a multicol-end code also in the footer, then using noinclude (?) for the same text on the next page (I may have that wrong).  Is this really the best way?  Thanks for any suggestions, and especially any links to pages using a particular technique, so that I may copy/paste. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 18:18, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]],
:Regarding point 1. Multicol breaks paragraphs between pages, whether you want it to or not (as you have seen). Thus, you do not need nop/nopt.
:Regarding point 2. I am not sure of the best practices for multicol per se, but using noinclude and includeonly should work. However, neither needs to be placed in the footer. I have provided an example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/99]]. Note also that hws/hwe doesn't help with noinclude/includeonly, and the hyphenated word has to be handled manually (as in the example). I also recommend transcluding as you go, to make sure this is all working, and to identify other pages in the text where noinclude/includeonly should be added.
:For reference, I believe the only way to avoid copy pasting text from page to page would be to use a raw html table, rather than the multicol environment. If you would prefer to do this, I could help set something up, but otherwise, the above should work.
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:28, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you so much!  I will study what you have done tomorrow.  I thought perhaps the &quot;answer&quot; was tables, but I am not very good at tables.  I have been transcluding at [[User:Laura1822/sandbox3]]. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 00:43, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
:::P.S. @[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I did a little more testing, and you can probably save yourself some time by placing half the duplicate text in either the header/footer (as you said in your original post), to save you typing out the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; tags. Then you need only add the includeonly tags on the previous/next page. I have added another example on pages [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/97]] and [[:Page:Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf/98]], placing text from djvu/97 into the footer, and using includeonly on the next page (djvu/98), noting in this case that spaces should appear after the last word inside the includeonly tags, not before the first word outside the includeonly tags. I also modified the example on djvu/98 and djvu/99, this time moving text from djvu/99 into the header, and using includeonly on the previous page (djvu/98). Hopefully this will be slightly faster. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 20:37, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you.  I am studying.  I did experiment myself just a little in the paragraph from 98-99, because I saw that there is an extra blank line in the transcluded text.  I wondered if it was because the multicol-related templates were outside the include-related tags, but when I enclosed them all within the tag, it made no difference that I could see.  I still don't quite understand how it's all supposed to work, but I will study it some more.  Thank you for helping me. [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 12:24, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] I am not sure if there was an entire blank line, but I agree that there was a small gap in the 1px black line which runs along the center of the multicol environment. What I should have done (and which fixes the issue), is to start and end the multicolumn environment on the same page (so either duplicate all the content from the first page to the second, or duplicate all the content from the second page to the first; and if the multicol would have to span three pages, then you need a table, as far as I am aware). I have accordingly corrected the djvu 98-99 example (the djvu 97-98 example was already fine). Apologies for any past confusion, as I do not use multicol all that much. Note that you also want to place the &lt;nowiki&gt;line=1px solid&lt;/nowiki&gt; arguments in the multicol-section template calls in most cases. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 21:13, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you, I just figured out that last bit about the vertical line yesterday.  I use inverted colors so I thought I just wasn't seeing it because it was black on black, but it turns out that I simply misunderstood what I saw on a page in another book that I was copying from.  I will study what you changed.  I will get it all figured out eventually! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== include ==

Can anyone please direct me to a Help page that will explain the purpose of the tags includeonly, noinclude, and onlyinclude, explaining their purposes and how and why they are intended to be used? [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: We have no such page in WS, but [[w:WP:NOINCLUDE]] covers the three of them. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:14, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you!!!! [[User:Laura1822|Laura1822]] ([[User talk:Laura1822|talk]]) 16:29, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

== Continuing a TOC across multiple pages with TOC row template ==

I had an issue with the table of contents formatting for pages [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/18|18]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/19|19]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/20|20]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/191|191]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/192|192]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/193|193]], [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/194|194]], and [[Page:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu/195|195]] of my transcription for ''[[The Life, Studies, and Works of Benjamin West]]''. I used the TOC row 1-dot-1 template, but couldn't figure out how to extend it over different pages when the table of contents continues. I'm sure there's a way to do this, but I don't have that knowledge. Any help would be appreciated. [[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]] ([[User talk:JohnSon12a|talk]]) 22:27, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
: AFAIK there isn't really a clean way to make a single line continue across pages. The approach you took of moving the end of it to the previous page seems good to me. Though you should use a comment (&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!-- text here --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;) for such notes, rather than putting them visible in the content. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:31, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
*[[User:JohnSon12a|JohnSon12a]]: I’m not sure that it’s possible with the TOC row family of templates, but if you switch to dtpl you can! For the part on the bottom of the first page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/top'' in the text body and ''dotted TOC page listing/suspend'' in the footer, and then on the top of the second page, put ''dotted TOC page listing/resume'' in the header and ''dotted TOC page listing/bottom'' in the body. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:45, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
*: {{tl|dtpl}} really shouldn't be used, because it gives unreasonably large outputs. See [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2022#Orley_Farm_Contents+Illustrations_Lists] for size comparisons. Why? dtpl makes one separate table for each row, plus its dot leader hack is noticeably worse than others (putting {{tl|gap}}s in there).
*: IMO the best solution that would include keeping content on its page, would be taking the first half of the markup of {{tl|TOC row 1-dot-1}}, putting it at the end of the first page, and putting the second half of the invocation at the top of the second page. ''I could try and make a TOC row template to do this, one of these days.''' — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:54, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

== The Mythology of All Races ==

Dear Friends.

I just looked at The Mythology of All Races. It seems to me that all the volumes are out of copyrights, yet there are many tomes that have red links. As a person that kind of likes mythologies, this makes me sad. Could I do something about this? Still, the books look kinda longish, I believe I would need to manually check every page, and I have some other projects right now to keep me busy, thus, I cannot promise anything in my current situation.

How much, do you think, as experienced users, time would be needed to be spent in order to publish all the tomes of this collection? And how hard and time-consuming is following all the steps in adding new content to Wikisources?

Best wishes!

-- [[User:Kaworu1992|Kaworu1992]] ([[User talk:Kaworu1992|talk]]) 00:02, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
: It depends on how much time you have daily, but I'd say one or two weeks per 400-page volume, so if one person were to focus only on this it would perhaps take somewhere between two and four months. (This is a ''very'' rough approximation; the actual time something takes also depends on IRL events, on complexity of formatting, on motivation, on OCR quality, and whatnot. The question of &quot;how long will this take&quot; is really hard to answer.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:43, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== Issue with imported file ==

I am attempting to create an index for ''The Making of Americans'' by Gertrude Stein. I used IA-upload to create a .djvu located at [[:File:The_Making_of_Americans,_1925.djvu]]. The file currently is listed as having 1,000×1,500 px. dimensions on Wikimedia Commons but is listed as having 0×0 px. dimensions on Wikisource. I do not know why this happened or how to fix it, and there does not seem to be documentation about this. Please help.

[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]] ([[User talk:Alef.person|talk]]) 00:15, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

:You may need to clear your cache.  It is displaying correctly for me. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:49, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
:: The 0x0 bug that DJVUs get (as opposed to the PDF-specific one) disappears quite fase; probably the servers emptied their cache in the two-ish hours.
:: @[[User:Alef.person|Alef.person]]: in general the way to fix this is to purge the server's cache; for this you can use the &quot;UTCLiveClock&quot; gadget from [[c:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:34, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

== Search *inside* all works by author? ==

Let's say I heard of a saying (eg. &quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;) attributed to a particular author (&quot;Giambattista Vico&quot;), and I want to find out where and if the author himself actually uses this expression. I would search for &quot;ricorsi&quot;, but global full-text search is way too much information to sift through, and the only other option is manually searching all works, which is still very time-consuming.

Any ideas for searching all works all at once? [[User:AddyLockPool|AddyLockPool]] ([[User talk:AddyLockPool|talk]]) 10:35, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
: I'd do {{tqi|insource:&quot;corsi e ricorsi storici&quot;}}, and then turn on all namespaces. Ought to work. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:55, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

== I think I need two new TOC-row templates ==

Per my current [[User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox|sandbox]] example, I'm trying to format a TOC with the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; templates, and I can get really close to the source format, but I'm encountering a couple hangups. Specifically, I'm using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-1-1-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and I don't know how to how to get the 2nd and 3rd columns center aligned, like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-c-c-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, which doesn't exist.

But that one's just the header row, so maybe there's another workaround that doesn't involve the creation of a 56th template.

The other hangup is the need for dots and left-alignment in the 2nd column, via something like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-ldot-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;. The closest existing template I could find is [[Template:TOC row 1-l-dot-1|&lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-dot-1}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;]].

I'm open to any kind of suggestions. Thanks everybody! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:40, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
: IMO, this doesn't warrant new templates. Just use CSS. For alignment, you can use index CSS to realign everything. For instance: &lt;code&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(2), .wst-toc-row-1-1-1-1 td:nth-child(3) { text-align:center }&lt;/code&gt;. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:13, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Is there any documentation here that helps with explaining how to do this? CSS is great for those who know how to parse and write it, as well as when there are good examples in the documentation (like adding AuxTOC coloring to a TOC-row template), but in other cases finding a template or combination of templates is more straightforward. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 14:12, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Okay. How do I access the index.css for a page? Should I insert your code example into [[Template:TOC_templates/styles.css]]? [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::It's at Index:&lt;var&gt;Name of work&lt;/var&gt;/styles.css. The easiest way to get there is to edit any page, scroll to the bottom and you'll see the CSS linked. If there's nothing there (which is true for 90%+ of works), it will be a red link. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:57, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Even easier, when you're in the index page, at the top left, next to &quot;index&quot; and &quot;discussion&quot; there is &quot;styles&quot;, which leads to the index css. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:08, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Those are incredibly straight-forward instructions, thank you both so much! I tried reading through the page on Wikipedia about TemplateStyles[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TemplateStyles], which &quot;work on all types of pages, not just templates, despite the name.&quot; I couldn't understand anything there without studying a bunch of other material. This ought to work on a sandbox page, so I can tinker with it and learn by doing, now. Thanks again!! [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 05:11, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Happy to help. Not sure what your proficiency is with CSS, but if you need help with something, let me know: I'm pretty okay at tinkering with CSS, particularly prior to 4.0. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 05:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

The first template has been handled. The second template has me stumped bad. I've looked at several template, style.css pages, and help pages, but I still have no clue how to add dots to &lt;nowiki&gt;.wst-toc-row-1-l-dot-1 td:nth-child(2)&lt;/nowiki&gt;. It looks like several wrapper classes were needed to implement the dots in the first place, so maybe it's not as easy to replicate them in another td element. Or if it is easy, I have no clue how to identify the parent class/div names, nor the inheritance syntax for applying it. [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 00:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Weird symbols ==

Right before the title of many poems of [[Index:XLI poems.djvu]], there is a weird sort of symbol (ex [[Page:XLI poems.djvu/15]]). It's never the same. To me, it looks like a hastily hand-drawn circle. Given this, and that its position varies (horizontally close to the center but not centered), I think that it is an annotation of a librarian or whatnot, post-publication. And so I've concluded that these shouldn't be transcribed. Do you agree? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Given the inconsistent shapes, usage, and placement, I'd agree with the assumption that they aren't part of the work. &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 16:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:Agreed that this seems to be someone scribbling in the book. I'd say assume that until you know otherwise (e.g. if you find another scan that has it). —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:46, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059899487&amp;seq=266&amp;q1=+the+sky+was+can+dy is a reprint of the poem a couple years later, and shows no sign of any such mark.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 02:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::Case closed. 🙅 —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Thanks to everyone for the input! — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:49, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
::::You do a lot of great work around here and are very helpful. Let me thank you as well. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:55, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Problems with transcluded texts ==

Referring to: [[The Chinese language and how to learn it/The Written Language#]]

There are a large number of errors - figures turned into random modern characters, spaces added into words, characters deleted from words and spaces inserted into their places, chinese characters rendered as modern QWERTY symbols, etc.

In non-transcluded texts, I'd mark the page as problematic. What's the protocol for pointing out problems with a page (problems which the reader doesn't have the skill/knowledge to fix)? [[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] ([[User talk:Grayautumnday|talk]]) 17:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:This chapter was transcluded too early as some the pages are not proofread. Click on the page links in the left margin of the text for the problem pages and mark them as problematic in the Page: namespace. This will be represented in the status bar at the top of the transcluded text. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

== Documents with numbered pargraphs ==

I have a document where the paragraphs are numbered throughout the entire document; is there set (or recommended) way to implement these numbers?

Example page with the numbered paragraphs:[[Page:The_collapse_of_NATM_tunnels_at_Heathrow_Airport.pdf/9]] -- [[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:''(Wording error in original question fixed)'' --[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 02:51, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Hello @[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]],
::Two options come to mind. The first would be to implement these numbers with sidenotes, e.g. [[:Template:Sidenote]]. The problem is, sidenotes are trouble from a technical point of view, and the likelihood that they render correctly in both page and namespace is probably low. If you see my example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/9]], to reduce the left margin below the 11em default has led to the line numbers overflowing left (into the wiki toolbar links on the left). This will (sort of) correct itself once transcluded, although may look worse for wide layouts (e.g. layout 1). The other option, see example edit on [[:Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/10]] is to use [[:Template:Pline]]. Adjusting the (now small) margin might not look so great either, but at least it isn't (at present) colliding with any text. It may also be possible to apply changes across the entire work with some custom css styles, if you are interested in pursuing the [[:Template:Pline]] option (e.g. changing the color or margin - please ask if unsure how to go about this).
::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 05:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Other possibility: a table. Where the left column is the para numbers, and the right column is the para. For unnumeberd paras (like titles) you can just leave the left cell empty. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:59, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::The template {{tl|numbered div/s}} might be of help here. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 19:11, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: The issue would be with the margins: except by putting all paras in a numbered div even when they don't have a number, the unnumbered divs will be missing the left margin. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:: A table with the necessary styling templates could take the work beyond the expansion limit. Personally, I would use {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} on the single digit numbers for alighment. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 20:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Given no formatting would need to be added to the table from what I can see, I think it wouldn't go above PEIS. The text added per para would be |-\n|[a few digits, less than 10]||. So about 16 chars per para. That's shorter than a single {{tl|fqm}} invocation (109 chars). Styling can be done through index css.
::: Plus, {{tl|fqm}} and {{tl|fsp}} would mean not having the margins on the whole paragraphs, no? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 20:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Looking over the options folks suggested, using [[:Template:Pline]] seems like it might be the simplest approach. Bonus if the look of the Pline numbers can be modified.--[[User:The Navigators|The Navigators]] ([[User talk:The Navigators|talk]]) 04:51, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: They have the css class {{code|wst-pline}}, so you can target them in index CSS with something like {{code|.wst-pline { color: inherit; font-size:inherit }}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:54, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
: There is also {{tl|*!/s}}{{tl|*!/i}}{{tl|*!/e}} for doing block based lists. I wrote these to work around some limitations of wikitext lists, but for a 'list' of numbered paragraphs it would be a 'use-case'. You do have to mark the start of each item though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

== Rotated book ==

Most of the content pages of ''[https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000108920392&amp;seq=16 Christmas tree]'' are turned sideways (as in, the text's put in landscape rather than portrait mode).

Do you think that the rotation is part of the content, or was it just a technical device to allow for larger text? And so, should they be transcribed {{rotate|-90|rotated}} (which is technically doable) or normally ? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:What would be cool is if it had a button that would show the as published layout. [[:Index:Christmas Tree-EEC.djvu]] Did the book that was scanned have a silver page?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:10, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::Maybe change the way a {{tl|class block}} works?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 17:12, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::: Technically, there wouldn't be an issue. I'm wondering on whether we ''should''. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:21, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: (@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]], a side note for future cases: it's nice, but don't bother generating files for me; I prefer to do it myself because of my OCR setup and a few other things; and that requires going through PDF first; so I don't use preexisting DJVUs.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::: [[User:Alien333|Alien 333]]: Sorry for the (what for me would have been an) annoyance. I think it should be okay to upload in the same namespace; you know of the upload a new version link on the commons page?  I also did some images.  I have a pretty good cover and that first image, with the stars and such, I brightened the faded colors and I removed that underline from the &quot;C&quot;, because I think it is a librarian mark, just in red.  There seems to be an &quot;underlining the first letter of the title and first letter in the last name ritual&quot; that many libraries practice(d).  I am tempted to upload my image into your images namespace, but see the annoyance apology.

:::I am going to upload the cover and put that onto the header, but that can be easily reverted away.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:37, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: It's not an annoyance, no; it's just I thought you could spare yourself the effort since I'm not going to use them. If you want, you can reupload the illustrations under the same title if you've got better ones; it's specifically for the whole scans (the djvus) that I really like to do them myself. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:39, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], I am unsure what you do to your pdf files, but perhaps you could strip the watermarks from the pages?  If I were just picking a version to use, I would have picked the version without Google et al slapped on them.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:10, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::: I would definitely appreciate watermark stripping. How do you do that? Last time I tried removing the google watermarks I got the impression that they were actually rasterised onto the jpgs and that they couldn't really be easily removed. I was probably wrong.
::: On my setup: it's essentially raw images (JP2 if from IA, else JPGs) -[https://gitlab.mister-muffin.de/josch/img2pdf img2pdf]&gt; pdfs -[https://github.com/ocrmypdf/OCRmyPDF ocrmypdf]&gt; pdfs with OCR -[https://github.com/jwilk-archive/pdf2djvu pdf2djvu]&gt; djvus.
::: The in-between PDF conversion is the weak spot, but with my setup I manage to get OCR greatly superior to what I can get on-site or on the internet, and ocrmypdf as the name says does only pdfs. [https://github.com/jwilk-archive/ocrodjvu ocrodjvu] looks promising but I never managed to get it up and running (missing dependencies not in my package manager IIRC) [[User:Inductiveload/Scripts/DJVU OCR]] also looks like a possible improvement, but it's python 2.X and I haven't bothered trying to update it (definitely should at some point).
::: To me, getting good OCR is more important than the actual page image; given of course that the image is still clear and legible.
::: I'd be interested if you have tips for file conversions. Regards, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::: Removing watermarks can be easily done with Hathi PDF using xpdf tools. If you have evince installed, try typing &quot;pdf&quot; at a cmdline and tab to show what tools you have. It will be obvious from that list. My tesseract is good, but the djvu software seems to be having problems with some characters. I want to fix the first problem with all my computer first to verify that though.

:::: The watermarks are embedded in the Hathi downloads which are not pdf.

:::: If there is a dislike here after non-scan backed works, it is any irrelevant watermarks and/or logos. I have been told I was wrong, but I blame the option to remove the &quot;ugly&quot; Google and Hathi cover pages for IAUpload's brokenness.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 18:54, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::::: Could you describe precisely your method for removing google tags? (I do have all the xpdf tools.)
::::: Of course, the watermarks don't really matter that much. It's just a small annoyance. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::: pdfimage -jp2 -p name_of.pdf but this is only close. pdfimage -h or some variation (--help) should show the syntax better than I can type from memory. It is so easy, I was ashamed I hadn't poked around in the old (really really old) tools before.

:::::: Honest! It wasn't me at the time disliking the logo spam.  I have come to agree with it.  It seems like they were uploading Google pdfs to IA so that IAUpload could convert them. And, I am surprised how much I miss that opinionated Aussie lately.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:37, 13 June 2025 (UTC)


:Based on the shape of the cover and the how the scan looks, I think it was printed {{rotate|-90|rotated}}. That said, I think it would look and read better on screen if transcribed non-rotated -- the same way we handle photos that are printed &quot;turned.&quot; &amp;mdash;[[User:Tcr25|Tcr25]] ([[User talk:Tcr25|talk]]) 18:40, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:: Good point on the images - Thanks. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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 | firstname    = Mary MacLeod
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==Works==
{{populate}}


{{PD-US|1951}}
{{authority control}}

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 | description  = folklorist
 }}

==Works==
* (ed.) {{cite|[[Morte Arthure]]. An alliterative Poem of the 14th Century}}, compiled by {{w|Robert Thornton (scribe)|Robert Thornton}} (1900) {{HTlink|000951618}}
* {{cite|[[Memories of Pioneer Days in Queensland]]}} (1931) {{esl|https://www.textqueensland.com.au/item/book/44ffe84cb13b157d8d07507e0edd8240}}


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 | firstname    = Mary MacLeod
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 | description  = folklorist
 }}

==Works==
* (ed.) {{cite|[[Morte Arthure]]. An alliterative Poem of the 14th Century}}, compiled by {{w|Robert Thornton (scribe)|Robert Thornton}} (1900) {{HTlink|000951618}}
* {{cite|[[Memories of Pioneer Days in Queensland]]}} (1931) {{esl|https://espace.library.uq.edu.au/view/UQ:193543}}


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    <title>Page:The Genealogy of Morals.djvu/14</title>
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        <username>Plan9fromInnerSpace</username>
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      <text bytes="1642" sha1="2uax46jk8u38ksriq7nxuq6zutrcf71" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Xholdingstrongx&quot; /&gt;{{RunningHeader|ii|PREFACE|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;as I have explained, all the twelve throbbing beats of the clock of our experience, of our life, of our being—ah!—and count wrong in the endeavour. Of necessity we remain strangers to ourselves, we understand ourselves not, in ourselves we are bound to be mistaken, for of us holds good to all eternity the motto, &quot;Each one is the farthest away from himself&quot;—as far as ourselves are concerned we are not &quot;knowers.&quot; 


{{center|2.}}

My thoughts concerning the ''genealogy'' of our moral 
prejudices—for they constitute the issue in this polemic—have their first, bald, and provisional expression in that collection of aphorisms entitled ''[[Human All-Too-Human|Human, all-too-Human, a Book for Free Minds]]'', the writing of which was begun in Sorrento, during a winter which allowed me to gaze over the broad and dangerous territory through which my mind had up to that time wandered. This took place in the winter of 1876-77; the thoughts themselves are older.
 
They were in their substance already the same thoughts 
which I take up again in the following treatises:—we hope 
that they have derived benefit from the long interval, 
that they have grown riper, clearer, stronger, more complete. The fact, however, that I still cling to them even now, that in the meanwhile they have always held faster by each other, have, in fact, grown out of their original shape and into each other, all this strengthens in my mind the joyous confidence that they must have been originally neither separate disconnected capricious nor sporadic phenomena, but have sprung from a common root, from a&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1693" sha1="04oygtu8r3569egulhs11401dj2aa13" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;William Maury Morris II&quot; /&gt;
 {{rh||&quot;GOOD AND EVIL,&quot; &quot;GOOD AND BAD&quot; |7}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''{{hwe|dings|schlecterdings}}''&quot;)—which, originally and as yet without any sinister innuendo, simply denoted the plebeian man in contrast to the aristocratic man. It is at the sufficiently late period of the [[w:Thirty Years' War|Thirty Years' War]] that this sense becomes changed to the sense now current. From the standpoint of the Genealogy of Morals this discovery seems to be substantial: the lateness of it is to be attributed to the retarding influence exercised in the modern world by democratic prejudice in the sphere of all questions of origin. This extends, as will shortly be shown, even to the province of natural science and physiology, which ''prima facie'' is the most objective. The extent of the mischief which is caused by this prejudice (once it is free of all trammels except those of its own malice), particularly to Ethics and History, is shown by the notorious case of [[w:Henry Thomas Buckle|Buckle]]: it was in Buckle that that ''plebeianism'' of the modern spirit, which is of English origin, broke out once again from its malignant soil with all the violence of a slimy volcano, and with that salted, rampant, and vulgar eloquence with which up to the present time all volcanoes have spoken.


{{center|5.}}

With regard to ''our'' problem, which can justly be called an ''intimate'' problem, and which elects to appeal to only a limited number of ears: it is of no small interest to ascertain that in those words and roots which denote &quot;good&quot; we catch glimpses of that arch-trait, on the strength of which the aristocrats feel themselves to be beings of a higher order than their fellows. Indeed, they&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1576" sha1="p0xrf4jkzocrf72k9z9mzg3s6wyledb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;William Maury Morris II&quot; /&gt;{{rh|16|THE GENEALOGY OF MORALS|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and transvaluation of all values, has up to the present always triumphed again over all other ideals, over all more aristocratic ideals.


{{center|9.}}

&quot;But why do you talk of nobler ideals? Let us submit to the facts; that the people have triumphed—or the slaves, or the populace, or the herd, or whatever name you care to give them—if this has happened through the Jews, so be it! In that case no nation ever had a greater mission in the world's history. The 'masters' have been done away with; the morality of the vulgar man has triumphed. This triumph may also be called a blood-poisoning (it has mutually fused the races)—I do not dispute it; but there is no doubt but that this intoxication has succeeded. The 'redemption' of the human race (that is, from the masters) is progressing; swimmingly; everything is obviously becoming Judaised, or Christianised, or vulgarised (what is there in the words?). It seems impossible to stop the course of this poisoning through the whole body politic of mankind—but its ''tempo'' and pace may from the present time be slower, more delicate, quieter, more discreet—there is time enough. In view of this context has the Church nowadays any necessary purpose? Has it, in fact, a right to live? Or could man get on without it? ''Quaeritur''. It seems that it fetters and retards this tendency, instead of accelerating it. Well, even that might be its utility. The Church certainly is a crude and boorish institution, that is repugnant to an intelligence with any pretence at&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1669" sha1="4cessecuyuldule0hpjaksce2lyhe6z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;William Maury Morris II&quot; /&gt;{{rh||&quot;GUILT&quot; AND &quot;BAD CONSCIENCE&quot;|61}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;up to a certain point, to ''isolate'' the offender from his act. As the power and the self-consciousness of a community increases, so proportionately does the penal law become mitigated; conversely every weakening and jeopardising of the community revives the harshest forms of that law. The creditor has always grown more humane proportionately as he has grown more rich; finally the amount of injury he can endure without really suffering becomes the criterion of his wealth. It is possible to conceive of a society blessed with so great a ''consciousness of its own power'' as to indulge in the most aristocratic luxury of letting its wrong-doers go ''scot-free''.—&quot;What do my parasites matter to me?&quot; might society say. &quot;Let them live and flourish! I am strong enough for it.&quot;—The justice which began with the maxim, &quot;Everything can be paid off, everything must be paid off,&quot; ends with connivance at the escape of those who cannot pay to escape—it ends, like every good thing on earth, by ''destroying itself''.—The self-destruction of Justice! we know the pretty name it calls itself—''Grace!'' it remains, as is obvious, the privilege of the strongest, better still, their super-law.


{{center|11.}}

A deprecatory word here against the attempts, that have lately been made, to find the origin of justice on quite another basis—namely, on that of ''resentment''. Let me whisper a word in the ear of the psychologists, if they would fain study revenge itself at close quarters: this plant blooms its prettiest at present among Anarchists and anti-Semites, a hidden flower, as it has ever been, like&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1563" sha1="d44dlx8uihzvv2bnpagwmb0j6v4qghz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;William Maury Morris II&quot; /&gt;{{rh||&quot;GUILT&quot; AND &quot;BAD CONSCIENCE&quot;|89}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;by an invincible horror—in man there is so much that is
ghastly—too long has the world been a mad-house.


{{center|23.}}

Let this suffice once for all concerning the origin of the &quot;holy God.&quot; The fact that ''in itself'' the conception of gods is not bound to lead necessarily to this degradation of the imagination (a temporary representation of whose vagaries we felt bound to give), the fact that there exist ''nobler'' methods of utilising the invention of gods than in this self-crucifixion and self-degradation of man, in which the
last two thousand years of Europe have been past masters—these facts can fortunately be still perceived from
every glance that we cast at the Grecian gods, these mirrors of noble and grandiose men, in which the ''animal'' in man felt itself deified, and did ''not'' devour itself in subjective frenzy. These Greeks long utilised their gods as simple buffers against the &quot;bad conscience&quot;—so that they could continue to enjoy their freedom of soul: this, of course, is diametrically opposed to Christianity's theory of its god. They went ''very far'' on this principle, did these splendid and lion-hearted children; and there is no lesser
authority than that of the Homeric Zeus for making them realise occasionally that they are taking life too casually. &quot;Wonderful,&quot; says he on one occasion—it has to do with
the case of [[w:Aegisthus|Ægistheus]], a ''very'' bad case indeed—
&lt;poem&gt;
&quot;Wonderful how they grumble, the mortals against the
     immortals
&lt;/poem&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1932" sha1="27fysad9rhdchv2eihyrcure4yaib0j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;William Maury Morris II&quot; /&gt;{{rh||ASCETIC IDEALS|115}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|ing|looking}} round to see if no one would come to their help; further, they were afraid of all who looked at them. Just enumerate in order the particular tendencies and virtues of the philosopher—his tendency to doubt, his tendency to deny, his tendency to wait (to be &quot;[[wikt:ephectic|ephectic]]&quot;), his tendency to analyse, search, explore, dare, his tendency to compare and to equalise, his will to be neutral and objective, his will for everything which is ''&quot;[[w:sine ira et studio|sine ira et studio]]&quot;'': has it yet been realised that for quite a lengthy period these tendencies went counter to the first claims of morality and conscience? (To say nothing at all of ''Reason,'' which even Luther chose to call ''Frau Klüglin,&lt;ref&gt;Mistress Sly.—Tr.&lt;/ref&gt; the sly whore.'') Has it been yet appreciated that a philosopher, in the event of his ''arriving'' at self-consciousness, must needs feel himself an incarnate ''&quot;nitimur in vetitum,&quot;''&lt;ref&gt;&quot;We strive for the forbidden&quot;, from Ovid's fourth elegy.—WS editor.&lt;/ref&gt;—and consequently ''guard'' himself against &quot;his own sensations,&quot; against self-consciousness? It is, I repeat, just the same with all good things, on which we now pride ourselves; even judged by the standard of the ancient Greeks, our whole modern life, in so far as it is not weakness, but power and the consciousness of power, appears pure &quot;[[w:Hubris|Hybris]]&quot; and godlessness: for the things which are the very reverse of those which we honour to-day, have had for a long time conscience on their side, and God as their guardian. &quot;Hybris&quot; is our whole attitude to nature nowadays, our violation of nature with the help of machinery, and all the unscrupulous ingenuity of our scientists and engineers. &quot;Hybris&quot; is our attitude to God, that is, to some alleged teleological and ethical spider behind the meshes of the great trap of the causal web. Like&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The letters of William Blake (1906).djvu/218</title>
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      <text bytes="1634" sha1="tev42hfpasft128u6612gcwl3pjgl73" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Cygnis insignis&quot; /&gt;
{{rh|152|LETTERS OF WILLIAM BLAKE.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{center|37.

To {{small-caps|William Hayley}}.

4''th May'' 1804.}}

{{small-caps|Dear Sir}},—I thank you sincerely for Falconer,&lt;ref&gt;''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]'', a poem by [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|William Falconer]], 1804, contains three plates and five vignettes engraved in line by J. Fittler, A.R.A., after N. Pocock. Blake's plate of &quot;The Shipwreck&quot; has certainly some traces of Fittler's manner of engraving.&lt;/ref&gt; an admirable poet, and the admirable prints to it by Fittler. Whether you intended it or not, they have given me some excellent hints in engraving; his manner of working is what I shall endeavour to adopt in many points. I have seen the elder Mr. Walker. He knew and admired without any preface my print of Romney, and when his daughter came in he gave the print into her hand without a word, and she immediately said, &quot;Ah! Romney! younger than I knew him, ''but very like indeed''.&quot; Mr. Walker showed me Romney's first attempt at oil painting; it is a copy from a Dutch picture—&quot;Dutch Boor Smoking&quot;; on the back is written, &quot;This was the first attempt at oil painting by G. Romney.&quot; He shewed me also the last performance of Romney. It is of Mr. Walker and family,&lt;ref&gt;Adam Walker, his wife and daughter, sitting at a table; the three sons standing in the background; the father explaining a diagram; landscape background. Canvas, 65 x 53 in. Now in the National Portrait Gallery (see ''Romney'', by [[Author:Humphry Ward|Humphry Ward]] and W. Roberts, 1904, vol. ii. p. 163).&lt;/ref&gt; the draperies put&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{block center|{{smallrefs}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
    <id>786337</id>
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      <comment>/* Poetry */</comment>
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      <text bytes="796" sha1="bqg8nr30trcjwjzcs5yo3e3g295x6x7" xml:space="preserve">{{similar|Author:William Falconer}}
{{author
 | firstname    = William
 | lastname     = Falconer
 | last_initial = Fa
 | description  = Scottish poet
 }}

==Works==
===Poetry===
* &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer)|The Shipwreck]]&quot; (1762)
* &quot;[[The Smiling Plains]]&quot;

===Prose===
* An account of the epidemic catarrhal fever, commonly called the influenza, as it appeared at Bath, in the months of May and June, 1782, (1782) short work {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/b21441492}}
* An Essay on the Plague, 1801 {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/anessayonplague00falcgoog}}

==Works about Falconer==
* {{DNB link|Falconer, William (1732-1769)}}
* {{SBDEL link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB1911 link|Falconer, William}}

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{{author
 | firstname    = William
 | lastname     = Falconer
 | last_initial = Fa
 | description  = Scottish poet
 }}

==Works==
===Poetry===
* &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer)|The Shipwreck]]&quot; (1762)
* &quot;[[The Smiling Plains]]&quot;

===Prose===
* An account of the epidemic catarrhal fever, commonly called the influenza, as it appeared at Bath, in the months of May and June, 1782, (1782) short work {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/b21441492}}
* An Essay on the Plague, 1801 {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/anessayonplague00falcgoog}}

==Works about Falconer==
* {{Eminent Scotsmen link|Falconer, William|p=254|pp=258|volume=3}}
* {{DNB link|Falconer, William (1732-1769)}}
* {{SBDEL link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB1911 link|Falconer, William}}

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{{author
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 | lastname     = Falconer
 | last_initial = Fa
 | description  = Scottish poet
 }}

==Works==
===Poetry===
* &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer)|The Shipwreck]]&quot; (1762)
* &quot;[[The Smiling Plains]]&quot;

===Prose===
* An account of the epidemic catarrhal fever, commonly called the influenza, as it appeared at Bath, in the months of May and June, 1782, (1782) short work {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/b21441492}}
* An Essay on the Plague, 1801 {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/anessayonplague00falcgoog}}

==Works about Falconer==
* {{Eminent Scotsmen link|Falconer, William|p=254|pp=258|volume=3}}
* {{EB9 link|Falconer, William|volume=9}}
* {{DNB link|Falconer, William (1732-1769)}}
* {{SBDEL link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB1911 link|Falconer, William}}

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{{author
 | firstname    = William
 | lastname     = Falconer
 | last_initial = Fa
 | description  = Scottish poet
 }}

==Works==
===Poetry===
* &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer)|The Shipwreck]]&quot; (1762)
* &quot;[[The Smiling Plains]]&quot;

===Prose===
* An account of the epidemic catarrhal fever, commonly called the influenza, as it appeared at Bath, in the months of May and June, 1782, (1782) short work {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/b21441492}}
* An Essay on the Plague, 1801 {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/anessayonplague00falcgoog}}

==Works about Falconer==
* {{Eminent Scotsmen link|Falconer, William|p=254|pp=258|volume=3}}
* {{IDUB link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB9 link|Falconer, William|volume=9}}
* {{DNB link|Falconer, William (1732-1769)}}
* {{SBDEL link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB1911 link|Falconer, William}}

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{{author
 | firstname    = William
 | lastname     = Falconer
 | last_initial = Fa
 | description  = Scottish poet
 }}

==Works==
===Poetry===
* &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer)|The Shipwreck]]&quot; (1762)
* &quot;[[The Smiling Plains]]&quot;

===Prose===
* An account of the epidemic catarrhal fever, commonly called the influenza, as it appeared at Bath, in the months of May and June, 1782, (1782) short work {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/b21441492}}
* An Essay on the Plague, 1801 {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/anessayonplague00falcgoog}}

==Works about Falconer==
* {{Eminent Scotsmen link|Falconer, William|p=254|pp=258|volume=3}}
* {{IDUB link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB9 link|Falconer, William|volume=9}}
* {{DNB link|Falconer, William (1732-1769)}}
* {{Nuttall link|Falconer, William|F}}
* {{SBDEL link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB1911 link|Falconer, William}}


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{{author
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 | lastname     = Falconer
 | last_initial = Fa
 | description  = Scottish poet
 }}

==Works==
===Poetry===
* &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer)|The Shipwreck]]&quot; (1762)
* &quot;[[The Smiling Plains]]&quot;

===Prose===
* An account of the epidemic catarrhal fever, commonly called the influenza, as it appeared at Bath, in the months of May and June, 1782, (1782) short work {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/b21441492}}
* An Essay on the Plague, 1801 {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/anessayonplague00falcgoog}}

==Works about Falconer==
* {{Eminent Scotsmen link|Falconer, William|p=254|pp=258|volume=3}}
* {{IDUB link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB9 link|Falconer, William|volume=9}}
* {{DNB link|Falconer, William (1732-1769)}}
* {{NIE link|Falconer, William}}
* {{Nuttall link|Falconer, William|F}}
* {{SBDEL link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB1911 link|Falconer, William}}


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{{author
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 | lastname     = Falconer
 | last_initial = Fa
 | description  = Scottish poet
 }}

==Works==
===Poetry===
* &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer)|The Shipwreck]]&quot; (1762)
* &quot;[[The Smiling Plains]]&quot;

===Prose===
* An account of the epidemic catarrhal fever, commonly called the influenza, as it appeared at Bath, in the months of May and June, 1782, (1782) short work {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/b21441492}}
* An Essay on the Plague, 1801 {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/anessayonplague00falcgoog}}

==Works about Falconer==
* {{Eminent Scotsmen link|Falconer, William|p=254|pp=258|volume=3}}
* {{IDUB link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB9 link|Falconer, William|volume=9}}
* {{DNB link|Falconer, William (1732-1769)}}
* {{NIE link|Falconer, William}}
* {{Nuttall link|Falconer, William|F}}
* {{SBDEL link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB1911 link|Falconer, William}}
* {{AmCyc link|Falconer, William}}

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{{author
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 | lastname     = Falconer
 | last_initial = Fa
 | description  = Scottish poet
 }}

==Works==
===Poetry===
* &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer)|The Shipwreck]]&quot; (1762)
* &quot;[[The Smiling Plains]]&quot;

===Prose===
* An account of the epidemic catarrhal fever, commonly called the influenza, as it appeared at Bath, in the months of May and June, 1782, (1782) short work {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/b21441492}}
* An Essay on the Plague, 1801 {{ext scan link|1=https://archive.org/details/anessayonplague00falcgoog}}

==Works about Falconer==
* {{Eminent Scotsmen link|Falconer, William|p=254|pp=258|volume=3}}
* {{IDUB link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB9 link|Falconer, William|volume=9}}
* {{AmCyc link|Falconer, William}}
* {{DNB link|Falconer, William (1732-1769)}}
* {{NIE link|Falconer, William}}
* {{Nuttall link|Falconer, William|F}}
* {{SBDEL link|Falconer, William}}
* {{EB1911 link|Falconer, William}}


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    <title>Page:The Genealogy of Morals.djvu/191</title>
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      <text bytes="1888" sha1="65gjbp8bqhn6e6dp22w9twesqfjp2v6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;William Maury Morris II&quot; /&gt;{{rh||ASCETIC IDEALS|167}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;garb, its masquerade, with its temporary hardening, stiffening, and dogmatising—it makes the life in the ideal free once more, while it repudiates its superficial elements. These two phenomena, science and the ascetic ideal, both rest on the same basis—I have already made this clear—the basis, I say, of the same over-appreciation of truth (more accurately the same belief in the ''impossibility'' of valuing and of criticising truth), and consequently they are ''necessarily'' allies, so that, in the event of their being attacked, they must always be attacked and called into question together. A valuation of the ascetic ideal inevitably entails a valuation of science as well; lose no time in seeing this clearly, and be sharp to catch it! (''Art'', I am speaking provisionally, for I will treat it on some other occasion in greater detail,—art, I repeat, in which lying is sanctified and the ''will for deception'' has good conscience on its side, is much more fundamentally opposed to the ascetic ideal than is science: Plato's instinct felt this—Plato, the greatest enemy of art which Europe has produced up to the present. Plato ''versus'' Homer, that is the complete, the true antagonism—on the one side, the wholehearted &quot;transcendental,&quot; the great defamer of life; on the other, its involuntary panegyrist, the ''golden'' nature. An artistic subservience to the service of the ascetic ideal is consequently the most absolute artistic ''corruption'' that there can be, though unfortunately it is one of the most frequent phases, for nothing is more corruptible than an artist.) Considered physiologically, moreover, science rests on the same basis as does the ascetic ideal: a certain ''impoverishment of life'' is the presupposition of the latter as of the former—add, frigidity of the emotions, {{hws|slacken|slackening}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1886" sha1="88d2oiwvwvxl1widd7165d91t0c7tu2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;William Maury Morris II&quot; /&gt;{{rh|168|THE GENEALOGY OF MORALS|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|ing|slackening}} of the ''tempo'', the substitution of dialectic for instinct, ''seriousness'' impressed on mien and gesture (seriousness, that most unmistakable sign of strenuous metabolism, of Struggling, toiling life). Consider the periods in a nation in which the learned man comes into prominence; they are the periods of exhaustion, often of sunset, of decay—the effervescing strength, the confidence in life, the confidence in the future are no more. The {{SIC|preponderence|preponderance}} of the mandarins never signifies any good, any more than does the advent of democracy, or arbitration instead of war, equal rights for women, the religion of pity, and all the other symptoms of declining life. (Science handled as a problem! what is the meaning of science?—upon this point the Preface to the ''Birth of Tragedy''.) No! this &quot;modern science&quot;—mark you this well—is at times the ''best'' ally for the ascetic ideal, and for the very reason that it is the ally which is most unconscious, most automatic, most secret, and most subterranean! They have been playing into each other's hands up to the present, have these &quot;poor in spirit&quot; and the scientific opponents of that ideal (take care, by the bye, not to think that these opponents are the antithesis of this ideal, that they are the ''rich'' in spirit—that they are ''not;'' I have called them the ''hectic'' in spirit). As for these celebrated ''victories'' of science; there is no doubt that they are victories—but victories over what? There was not for a single minute any victory among their list over the ascetic ideal, rather was it made stronger, that is to say, more elusive, more abstract, more insidious, from the fact that a wall, an outwork, that had got built on to the main fortress and disfigured its appearance, should from time to time be&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1526" sha1="9ofwscagzrui6ozh4d1ks0kv5pnbgxo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;William Maury Morris II&quot; /&gt;{{rh|188|THE GENEALOGY OF MORALS|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;:(''c'') We require an unconditional union with Russia, together with a mutual plan of action which shall not permit any English schemata to obtain the mastery in Russia. No American future!

:(''d'') A national system of politics is untenable, and embarrassment by Christian views is a very great evil. In Europe all sensible people are sceptics, whether they say so or not.


{{center|18.}}

I see over and beyond all these national wars, new &quot;empires,&quot; and whatever else lies in the foreground. What I am concerned with—for I see it preparing itself slowly and hesitatingly—is the United Europe. It was the only real work, the one impulse in the souls, of all the broad-minded and deep-thinking men of this century—this preparation of a new synthesis, and the tentative effort to anticipate the future of &quot;the European.&quot; Only in their weaker moments, or when they grew old, did they fall back again into the national narrowness of the &quot;Fatherlanders&quot;—then they were once more &quot;patriots.&quot; I am thinking of men like Napoleon, Heinrich Heine, Goethe, Beethoven, Stendhal, Schopenhauer. Perhaps Richard Wagner likewise belongs to their number, concerning whom, as a successful type of German obscurity, nothing can be said without some such &quot;perhaps.&quot;

But to the help of such minds as feel the need of a new unity there comes a great explanatory economic fact: the small States of Europe—I refer to all our present kingdoms and &quot;empires&quot;—will in a short time become&lt;noinclude&gt;
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    <title>United States v. Des Moines Nav Railway</title>
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      <text bytes="19023" sha1="cjphhliq9c1ji9ts2dirqn0ev4x63v4" xml:space="preserve">{{Parallel reporter|12 S.Ct. 308}}
{{Parallel reporter|35 L.Ed. 1099}}

{{header
| title    = United States v. Des Moines Nav Railway
| author   =  David Josiah Brewer
| section  = Syllabus 
| previous = 
| next     = 
| portal = Supreme Court of the United States
| wikipedia = 
| notes    = 
}}
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| court = United States Supreme Court 
| volume = 142 
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| page = 510 
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&lt;div class='courtopinion'&gt;
Action by the United States against the Des Moines Navigation &amp; Railway Company and others to set aside certain conveyances of public lands, etc. Plaintiff appeals from a decree sustaining defendants' demurrer to plaintiff's bill and dismissing the bill. Affirmed.

STATEMENT BY MR. JUSTICE BREWER.

On August 8, 1846, an act was passed by the congress of the United States granting certain lands to the then territory of Iowa, to aid in the improvement of the navigation of the Des Moines river, 9 St. 77. The first section defined the extent of the grant, and is in these words:

'''Be it enacted by the senate and house of representatives'' ''of the United States of America in congress assembled,'' that there be, and hereby is, granted to the territory of Iowa, for the purpose of aiding said territory to improve the navigation of the Des Moines river from its mouth to the Raccoon fork (so-called) in said territory, one equal moiety, in alternate sections of the public lands (remaining unsold, and not otherwise disposed of, incumbered, or appropriated) in a strip five miles in width on each side of said river; to be selected within said territory by an agent or agents to be appointed by the governor thereof, subject to the approval of the secretary of the treasury of the United States.'

On January 9, 1847, (the territory in the mean time having become a state,) its first general assembly passed a joint resolution accepting this grant. A question soon arose as to its extent. The northern limit of the improvement was the Raccoon fork; and the contention on one side was that the grant extended no further than the improvement, and on the other, that, there being no limitation in the granting clause, it included lands on either side of the river up to its source, or at least to the northern boundary of the state.

This question was submitted at various times to the general executive officers of the United States having charge of the land department, with the result that conflicting opinions were given by them thereon. On February 23, 1848, Richard M. Young, the commissioner of the general land-office, by letter addressed to the state authorities, ruled that 'the state is entitled to the alternate sections within five miles of the Des Moines river, throughout the whole extent of that river, within the limits of Iowa.'

On March 2, 1849, Robert J. Walker, secretary of the treasury, to whose department at that time the control of the administration of public lands belonged, replying to a communication from the representatives of the state of Iowa in congress, sustained the ruling of the commissioner of the general land-office. In his letter he says: 'I concur with you in the views contained in your communication, and am of the opinion that the grant in question extends, as therein stated, on both sides of the river, from its source to its mouth, but not to lands on the river in the state of Missouri. I have transmitted your communication and accompanying papers, with a copy of this letter, to the commissioner of the general land-office.'

On June 1, 1849, notice was issued from the general land-office to the registers and receivers of the local land-offices to reserve from sale all the odd-numbered sections within five miles of the river up to the northern limits of the state, and lists were directed to be prepared of the sales and locations within those limits already made, with a view of certifying the remainder to the state. After these lists had been completed, but before any further action was taken, the department of the interior was created by congress, and the administration of public lands transferred to that department; and on April 6, 1850, Thomas Ewing, the secretary of the interior, ruled that the Raccoon fork was the limit of the grant. His ruling is contained in a letter of that date to the commissioner of the general land-office, as follows:

'Sir: Having considered the question submitted to me connected with the claim of the state of Iowa to select, under the act of August 8, 1846, lands for the improvement of the Des Moines river, I am clearly of the opinion that you cannot recognize the grant as extended above the Raccoon fork without the aid of an explanatory act of congress. It is clear, to my mind, from the language of the act of August 8, 1846, itself, that it was not the intent of the act to extend it further.'

He, however, added this further direction:

'As congress is now in session, and may take action on the subject, it will be proper, in my opinion, to postpone any immediate steps for bringing into market the lands embraced in the state's selections.'

Application was made to the president to reverse this ruling. The question was referred by the president to the attorney general, and, on July 19, 1850, Reverdy Johnson, the then attorney general, advised the president that he concurred with the views of the secretary of the treasury, and dissented from those of the secretary of the interior; holding that the grant extended to the northern limits of the state.

Before any action was taken on this opinion President Taylor died, and a new administration succeeded; and on June 30, 1851, the then attorney general, John J. Crittenden, in response to inquiry, gave it as his opinion, differing from his predecessor, that the grant terminated at the Raccoon fork. The secretary of the interior concurred in the opinion of the attorney general, but at the same time continued the reservation of the lands from market made by his predecessor; and afterwards, believing that the question of title was one for the decision of the courts, approved the selection made by the state up to the northern limits, without prejudice to the rights of other parties. His letter of instructions to the commissioner of the general land-office, of date October 29, 1851, was in these words:

'Department of the Interior, Washington, October 29, 1851. Sir: I herewith return all the papers in the Des Moines case, which were recalled from your office about the first of the present month. I have reconsidered and carefully reviewed my decision of the 26th of July last, and, in doing so, find that no decision which I can make will be final, as the question involved partakes more of a judicial than an executive character, which must ultimately be determined by the judicial tribunals of the country; and, although my own opinion on the true construction of the grant is unchanged, yet, in view of the great conflict of opinion among the executive officers of the government, and also in view of the opinions of several eminent jurists which have been presented to me in favor of the construction contended for by the state, I am willing to recognize the claim of the state, and to approve the selections, without prejudice to the rights, if any there be, of other parties, thus leaving the question as to the proper construction of the statute entirely open to the action of the judiciary. You will please, therefore, as soon as may be practicable, submit for my approval such lists as may have been prepared, and proceed to report for like approval lists of the alternate sections claimed by the state of Iowa, above the Raccoon fork as far as the surveys have progressed, or may hereafter be completed and returned. Very respectfully, etc., A. H. H. STUART, Secretary. The Commissioner of the General Land-Office.'

And the lists, having been made out, were by the secretary approved in the qualified way indicated in the letter, and thereafter transmitted to he state authorities and to the local land-offices.

Subsequently, and at its December term, 1859, the question as to the extent of the grant came before this court, and in the case of Railroad Co. v. Litchfield, 23 How. 66, it was held that the Raccoon fork was the northern limit of the grant, and that the state took no title to lands above that fork. After this decision, and on March 2, 1861, a joint resolution passed congress in these words:

'Resolved by the senate and house of representatives of the United States of America in congress assembled, that all the title which the United States still retain in the tracts of land along the Des Moines river and above the mouth of the Raccoon fork thereof in the state of Iowa which have been certified to said state improperly by the department of the interior as part of the grant by act of congress approved August 8, 1846, and which is now held by ''bona fide'' purchasers under the state of Iowa, be, and the same is hereby, relinquished to the state of Iowa.' 12 State. 251.

And on July 12, 1862, the following act:

'Be it enacted by the senate and house of representatives of the United States of America in congress assembled, that the grant of lands to the then territory of Iowa, for the improvement of the Des Moines river, made by the act of August 8, 1846, is hereby extended so as to include the alternate sections (designated by odd numbers) lying within five miles of said river, between the Raccoon fork and the northern boundary of said state. Such lands are to be held and applied in accordance with the provisions of the original grant, except that the consent of congress is hereby given to the application of a portion thereof to aid in the construction of the Keokuk, Fort Des Moines and Minnesota Railroad, in accordance with the provisions of the act of the general assembly of the state of Iowa, approved March 22, 1858. And if any of said lands shall have been sold or otherwise disposed of by the United States before the passage of this act, excepting those released by the United States to the grantees of the state of Iowa under the joint resolution of March 2, 1861, the secretary of the interior is hereby directed to set apart an equal amount of lands within said state to be certified in lieu thereof: provided, that, if the said state shall have sold and conveyed any portion of the lands lying within the limits of this grant the title of which had proved invalid, any lands which shall be certified to said state in lieu thereof by virtue of the provisions of this act shall inure to and be held as a trust fund for the benefit of the person or persons, respectively, whose titles shall have failed as aforesaid.' 12 St. 543.

Long prior to the last three matters noticed the state had taken action in respect to the improvement of the Des Moines river, and had disposed of the lands covered by the grant as it was claimed to be, including those above as well as those below the Raccoon fork. Such action and disposition had been in this way: Some work was done by the state, in the first instance, through its board of public works. Thereafter, and on December 17, 1853, a contract was made with Henry O'Reilly therefor. This was released on June 8, 1854, and on June 9, 1854, a new contract was entered into between the state and the principal defendant herein, the Des Moines Navigation &amp; Railway Company. By its terms, the navigation company was to expend in the improvement not less than $1,300,000, and to receive in pay the lands at $1.25 per acre; the lands to be conveyed from time to time, as $30,000 worth of work was done, in pursuance to the original act of congress.

Under this agreement, the navigation company proceeded to do some work on the improvement. On March 22, 1858, the state of Iowa passed an act, whose recital and first clause are as follows:

'Whereas, the Des Moines Navigation and Railroad Company have heretofore claimed, and do now claim, to have entered into certain contracts with the state of Iowa, by its officers and agents, concerning the improvement of the Des Moines river, in the state of Iowa; and whereas, disagreements and misunderstandings have arisen, and do now exist, between the state of Iowa and said company, and it being conceived to be to the interest of all parties concerned to have said matters, and all matters and things between said company and the state of Iowa, settled and adjusted: Now, therefore, be it resolved by the general assembly of the state of Iowa, that for the purpose of such settlement, and for that purpose only, the following propositions are made by the state to said company: That the said company shall execute to the state of Iowa full releases and discharges of all contracts, agreements, and claims with or against the state, including rights to water-rents which may have heretofore or do now exist, and all claims of all kinds against the state of Iowa, and the lands connected with the Des Moines river improvement, excepting such as are hereby by the state secured to the said company; and also surrender to said state the dredge-boat and its appurtenances, belonging to said improvement; and the state of Iowa shall, by its proper officer, certify and convey to the said company all lands granted by an act of congress approved August 8, 1846, to the then territory of Iowa, to aid in the improvement of the Des Moines river, which have been approved and certified to the state of Iowa by the general government, saving and excepting all lands sold or conveyed, or agreed to be sold or conveyed, by the state of Iowa, by its officers and agents, prior to the 23d day of December, 1853, under said grant; and said company, or its assignees, shall have right to all of said lands as herein granted to them as fully as the state of Iowa could have under or by virtue of said grant, or in any manner whatever, with full power to settle all errors, false locations, omissions, or claims in reference to the same, and all pay or compensation therefor by the general government, but at the costs and charges of said company, and the state to hold all the balance of said lands, and all rights, powers, and privileges under and by virtue of said grant, entirely released from any claim by or through said company; and it is understood that among the lands excepted and not granted by the state to said company are 25,487.87 acres lying immediately above Raccoon fork, supposed to have been sold by the general government, but claimed by the state of Iowa.' Revision Iowa 1860, p. 906.

The proposition of settlement made by this act was accepted by the navigation company on April 15, 1858, and the terms of the settlement carried into effect. On April 28, 1858, the governor of the state certified to the president the amount expended in the work, and the amount of land to be conveyed to the navigation company under the settlement. The certificate was in these words:

'Executive Chamber, Iowa, Des Moines, April 28, 1858. To his Excellency James Buchanan, President of the United States: I, Ralph P. Lowe, governor of the state of Iowa, as required by act of congress approved August 8, 1846, 'granting certain lands to the territory of Iowa to aid in the improvement of the navigation of the Des Moines river in said territory,' do hereby certify that there has been expended from time to time prior to the date hereof on the improvement of said river, as the work has progressed, and the money has been required, under certain contracts made by the state of Iowa with the Des Moines Navigation &amp; Railroad Company, the sum of three hundred and thirty-two thousand six hundred and thirty-four 4-100 dollars, ($332,634.04,) and in consideration of said expenditures on said improvement, and in pursuance of the provisions of the act of congress approved as aforesaid, there will be conveyed to said Des Moines Navigation &amp; Railroad Company two hundred and sixty-six thousand one hundred and seven 23-100 acres (266,107 23-100 acres) of the land belonging to said grant, and which have been certified and approved to the state of Iowa under said act for the prosecution of the improvement of said River Des Moines. In testimony whereof I, Ralph P. Lowe, governor of the state of Iowa, have caused the great seal of the state of Iowa to be hereunto affixed, together with my signature. RALPH P. LOWE. [Seal.] By the governor: ELIJAH SELLS, Secretary of State.'

And on the 3d day of May, 1858, the governor conveyed to the navigation company, by 14 deeds, the lands referred to.

On September 28, 1889, the present suit was commenced by the filing of the bill in behalf of the United States, in the circuit court of the United States for the northern district of Iowa, in which bill the complainant prayed that on final hearing a decree might be entered canceling and setting aside the certificate of the United States made by the secretary of the interior, the resolution of settlement passed by the general assembly of the state of Iowa, and the deeds of the governor to the navigation company, made in pursuance of such settlement, and quieting and confirming plaintiff's title to all the lands. To this bill were made parties defendant the navigation company and several individuals holding title to tracts of land by conveyance from it. The navigation company demurred to the bill; the other defendants answered. Proofs were taken under the issues presented by the bill and answer, and on final hearing a decree was entered sustaining the demurrer of the navigation company, and on the merits dismissing the bill. 43 Fed. Rep. 1. From such decree the United States has appealed to this court.

''Atty. Gen. Miller'' and ''John Y. Stone'', for the United States.

[Argument of Counsel from pages 520-527 intentionally omitted]

''B. J. Hall, Frank T. Brown, C. H. Gatch, Wm. Connor'', and ''Wm. G. Wilson'', for appellees.

Mr. Justice Brewer, after stating the facts in the foregoing language, delivered the opinion of the court. 

==Notes==

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The single question in this case is as to the validity of the assignment. Its invalidity is claimed under section 2115 of the Code of Iowa: 'No general assignment by an insolvent, or in contemplation of insolvency, for the benefit of creditors, shall be valid unless it be made for the benefit of all his creditors in proportion to the amount of their respective claims.' Rev.Code. p. 569. This statute has been in force since 1851. Code 1851, § 977; Revision 1860, § 1826. The assignment in question, standing by itself, presents no ground of challenge. It purports to be a general assignment, is for the benefit of all creditors, and contains no preferences; but the contention of plaintiff is that nearly contemporaneously with it were executed by Ott, the assignor, certain other instruments, which are to be taken as part of the one transaction, and by which preferences were given. The object of the statute was to secure equality among creditors, an object which certainly has the merit of equity. Curiously enough, counsel for plaintiff insists that this equity misled the circuit court, and protests against its like infiuence upon our judgment, while strenuously insisting upon such a construction of the transaction as will enable his client to obtain that preference which it was the purpose of the statute to prevent. He says: 'Somestress is laid by the learned judge who decided this case in the court below upon the inequitable result of holding the Ott assignment void, as it would give to the attachment creditors the entire estate. Undoubtedly it would be much more satisfactory to a court of equity had the law provided that the preferences and not the assignment should be void. The fact that the penalty imposed by the legislature was a harsh one, and operated unjustly upon the right of others, seems to have been something of an obstacle in the way in determining Ott's intent.' But if we apply the letter alone of the statute, then he has no cause of complaint; for the assignment, standing by itself, is without preferences, and only an assignment with preferences is denounced. Only by going beyond the letter, and, in obedience to the spirit, inquiring whether antecedent instruments were not so related to the assignment as fairly to be taken as parts thereof, and constituting with it but one transaction, has the plaintiff any standing in court. But shall we ignore the letter and heed the spirit to give a party a standing in court, and then ignore the spirit and heed only the letter in the further consideration of the case?

The rights of the parties are determined by this local statute, and the construction placed thereon by the supreme court of the state is decisive: 'The question of the construction and effect of a statute of a state, regulating assignments for the benefit of creditors, is a question upon which the decisions of the highest court of the state, establishing a rule of property, are of controlling authority in the courts of the United States. Brashear v. West, 7 Pet. 608, 615; Allen v. Massey, 17 Wall. 351; Lloyd v. Fulton, [[91 U.S. 479]], 485; Sumner v. Hicks, 2 Black, 532, 534; Jaffray v. McGehee. [[107 U.S. 361]], 365, 2 Sup. Ct. Rep. 367; Peters v. Bain, [[133 U.S. 670]], 686, 10 Sup. Ct. Rep. 354; Randolph's Ex'r v. Quidnick Co., [[135 U.S. 457]], 10 Sup. Ct. Rep. 655.' Union Bank of Chicago v. Kansas City Bank, [[136 U.S. 223]], 235, 10 Sup. Ct. Rep. 1013.

This statute, which, as we have seen, has been in force in the state of Iowa for 30 years, has been repeatedly before its highest court. In the margin may be found a list of cases decided by that court in which it has been the subject of construction. &lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;/&gt; These propositions seem to be established:

''First'', this section does not prevent partial assignments with preferences, or sales or mortgages of any or all of the party's property in payment of or security for indebtedness. Its operation is limited to the matter of general assignments, and does not destroy that ''jus disponendi'' which is an incident to title. Cowles v. Ricketts, 1 Iowa, 582; Fromme v. Jones, 13 Iowa, 474; Lampson v. Arnold, 19 Iowa, 479, 486. In this latter case the court enters into a full consideration of the import of the statute, and says: 'This statute, it will be observed, does not limit or affect the right of an insolvent debtor, or one contemplating insolvency, or, indeed, any other, to sell or mortgage a part or all of his property to one or more of his many creditors, in payment or security of a particular debt or debts. And this is true, although such sale or mortgage may, practically, defeat all other creditors than the grantee from collecting their demands. Nor does the statute prohibit or interfere with the right of any debtor, as it existed prior to the statute, to make a partial assignment. In other words, the statute does not, expressly or by implication, extend any further, or apply to any instrument or conveyance, other than to a general assignment. Bock v. Perkins, [[139 U.S. 628]], 641, 11 Sup. Ct. Rep. 677. And therefore it is still competent for any debtor to pay a part of his creditors in full; to secure another part by mortgage or deed of trust upon a part of his property; to make a partial assignment of still other property for the benefit of certain other creditors, with or without preference, and afterwards to make a general assignment. The statute simply provides that such general assignment shall not be valid, unless it is made for the benefit of all the creditors ''pro rata''.'

''Second'', several instruments executed by a debtor, at about the same time, may be considered as parts of one transaction, and in law forming but one instrument; and if, as thus construed, they have the effect of a general assignment with preferences, they are within the denunciation of the statute. Burrows v. Lehndorff, 8 Iowa, 96; Cole v. Dealham, 13 Iowa, 551; Van Patten v. Burr, 52 Iowa, 518, 3 N. W. Rep. 524.

And, ''third'', that although several instruments may be executed by the debtor at about the same time, they do not necessarily create one transaction or are to be considered as one instrument; and whether they do or not, and whether they come within the denunciation of the statute, depend upon the character of the instruments, the circumstances of the case, and the intent of the parties. Lampson v. Arnold, 19 Iowa, 479; Van Patten v. Burr, 55 Iowa, 224, 7 N. W. Rep. 522; Perry v. Vezina, 63 Iowa, 25, 18 N. W. Rep. 657; Gage v. Parry, 69 Iowa, 605, 29 N. W. Rep. 822; Garrett v. Plow Co., 70 Iowa, 697, 29 N. W. Rep. 395; Bolles v. Creighton, 73 Iowa, 199, 34 N. W. Rep. 815; Loomis v. Stewart, 75 Iowa, 387, 39 N. W. Rep. 660.

The case of Van Patten v. Burr, in 52 and 55 Iowa, and 3 and 7 N. W. Rep., is instructive. In that case the debtor, being insolvent, had executed two chattel mortgages and an assignment, all bearing date November 30, 1878. When first presented to the supreme court it came on demurrer to the petition, in which it was alleged that the debtor, 'in contemplation of insolvency, and being then insolvent, made, executed, and delivered in writing a general assignment of his property for the benefit of his creditors, contained in three instruments executed by him,' etc.; and also 'that said instruments were intended and do constitute as a whole a general assignment of his property for the benefit of creditors.' And it was held, under such allegations, that the three instruments were to be treated as one, and together making a general assignment with preferences. The case went back for trial, and upon the testimony it appeared that one of the mortgages was accepted by the mortgagee without any knowledge of the contemplated assignment; and in 55 Iowa, and 7 N. W. Rep., it was held that such mortgage was good.

In Perry v. Vezina, 63 Iowa, 25, 18 N. W. Rep. 657, it appeared that a chattel mortgage was executed about three hours before a general assignment; but as it was agreed that, when the mortgage was made, the debtor did not contemplate making the assignment, the latter was held valid. The court said: 'But, to justify a court in finding that a mortgage may be taken in connection with some other instrument as constituting an assignment, it should appear that the mortgagor, at the time he made the mortgage, had the intention to make an assignment.' Similar expressions are found in others of the cases cited. Obviously, it is a fair inference from these decisions that, as well said by Judge LOVE in deciding this case, 'the intention of the assignor must be the true and guiding principle of decision.' With what intent did Ott in this case execute the various instruments prior to the general assignment? Was he intending a general assignment, and seeking to evade the statute, and to give preferences by other instruments? or was he, finding himself involved and likely to be closed out by some of his creditors, simply preferring some, uncertain as to what disposition he should make of the balance of his property after they had been secured?

Upon the basis of these rulings interpreting the scope and effect of this statute, we perceive no error in the conclusions of the circuit court. Quite an amount of testimony was offered, for the purpose of showing that the debt of the appellant was fraudulently contracted by Ott. The assumption seems to be that if this be proved it follows that the assignment was made in violation of the statute, and void; but there is no sequence in these propositions. Even if it were established beyond doubt that Ott, with deliberate purpose to defraud the appellant, contracted this debt, this would not determine the scope or effect of his assignment. It were as reasonable to suppose that, having made the personal gain he designed, his interest ceased, and that he never contemplated an assignment until the very moment of its execution. Indeed, if he were guilty of fraud in the first instance, it would imply a state of mind indifferent to all results after the primary purpose of his own profit had been secured.

It would be unjust, however, to the parties to leave this statement with the inference which might follow, that we consider it established that the debt was fraudulently contracted. The basis of the contention in this respect is in the inaccurate statements furnished by Ott to appellant in reference to his financial condition during the years prior to this assignment. Obviously they were so as to values; but, as he named the property, his overestimate of value is not to be adjudged necessarily fraudulent. We note one matter upon which stress is laid,-a quarry, valued by him at $14,000. Notwithstanding the testimony as to its utter worthlessness, yet he had invested large sums in trying to develop and work it, and was not without hopes of ultimately realizing much from it. He named this quarry as a part of his assets, and gave his estimate of its value. If the lumber company desired further information as to its location, its condition, and its prospects, it could have asked of him, or made itself an independent investigation. If it was content with his statement, it must show not merely that he had overestimated, but, further, that he had fraudulently given the vaiue. He furnished to the lumber company the ''data'' for investigation, and, while ''caveat emptor'' is the rule as to the thing sold, ''caveat venditor'' is also the rule as to the pecuniary condition and solvency of the purchaser. Something more than overestimate of value on the purchaser's part is necessary before it can be said that on this account the debt was fraudulently contracted. A deliberate overestimate and an intention to defraud are essential.

But we do not care to tarry upon this feature of the case. The business relations between the lumber company and Ott had been running for a series of years. He had purchased from it to an amount exceeding $180,000. His business had averaged about $300,000 a year. His statements, while inaccurate and overestimated as to values, disclosed the property which he possessed, and enabled the lumber company to investigate. But, whatever may have been the character of the relations between the lumber company and him, the inquiry before us is limited to the assignment; and here five matters are referred to and claimed by the appellant to be so related to it as to be in fact part and parcel of it, and thus together constituting a general assignment with preferences, within the denunciation of the statute. Two of them are chattel mortgages, executed on the 20th day of February, 1886, more than two months before the assignment,-one to Charles Hill and the other to Addie Kloppenberg. That these were executed without any thought of an assignment is clear. At the time there was no threatened interference and no apparent danger of trouble to Ott in his business. The one to Hill was to secure him as an indorser. It is true that while executed on February 20th, and delivered to Hill, it was not recorded until the day before the assignment; and this failure to record was upon an agreement made by Hill with Ott for fear that such record would precipitate an attack upon the latter by his creditors. On this account it was adjudged void by the circuit court, a question which we cannot consider, as, the amount of the mortgage being less than $5,000, Hill could bring no appeal to this court. But this stipulated agreement not to record, while it amy have vitiated the mortgage, in no manner affected the assignment made long after, and for the reason that when the one was executed there was no thought or intent on the part of Ott of the other. The same may be said of the mortgage to Addie Kloppenberg. She was a minor, a girl of about 14 years of age, his granddaughter, of whose estate he had been appointed guardian, and whose moneys he had taken into his business. Security for these moneys he had been directed by the probate court, having charge of her estate, to give. Instead of real-estate security, he gave this chattel mortgage, and placed it in the hands of the attorney who was looking after the business of the estate, with a like suggestion not to record, and it was not in fact recorded until the day before the assignment. That he had this amount belonging to this minor in his possession is not questioned; that he gave the mortgage under the direction of the probate court is not disputed; and that he gave the same long before the closing out of his business was thought of is clear. Of course, it was not part of the assignment.

With respect to the three other matters, there is more of a question. It appears that on the 12th of April, on receipt of a statement of account, Francis Beidler, the representative of the appellant, came to Davenport to investigate the situation. The outcome of that investigation was not satisfactory. A demand was made for a reduction of the indebtedness. The plain import of the interview was that things could not continue as they had been. Two or three days before the assignment the bank with which Ott had been doing business for a series of years, and which had been discounting his drafts before acceptance, and which was at such time carrying about $11,000 of such drafts, intimated that it must have acceptances before discounting. His son, who was his principal salesman, his only traveling man, returned from one of his trips. While ordinarily selling from $18,000 to $20,000, his sales on that trip had practically amounted to nothing. Strikes in the south-west were significant of labor troubles, and shadowed the business outlook. With these accumulating facts, evidently Ott began to think that the end of his business career, at least so far as his present undertakings were concerned, was at hand. On the day before the assignment he gave to one Mueller, to whom he owed about $9,000, drafts on his customers for goods sold to the amount of $1,239.46. On the same day he gave to McClelland &amp; Co., to apply on a debt of $900, a like draft to the amount of $660.80; and on the very morning of the assignment he sent a letter to George F. White, the agent of the railroad company, notifying him that he might hold four carloads of glass, then in the possession and on the tracks of the railroad company, as security for a balance of between eight and nine hundred dollars of freight due.

Now, these transactions were but shortly prior to the assignment. They were in a general sense contemporaneous with it. They took place when Ott was conscious of the impending danger of the closing out of his business, and they operated as preferences to these creditors. They were so nearly related in time to the assignment, and made under such circumstances, that if, in an action at law and under proper instructions, the question had been submitted to a jury whether they were made with a view to an assignment, and to evade the statute, and the verdict had been in the affirmative, it would be difficult to say that such verdict was not warranted by the testimony. All this may be-must be conceded; yet over against it are these matters: The positive testimony of Ott that when he gave these drafts to Mueller and McClelland he had not determined upon an assignment. He knew that he was in financial trouble, and considered himself under special obligations as to one at least of these debts. His purpose was simply payment, and that he had a right to make. He supposed he should have to stop business, but in what manner the close should be brought about, whether by the action of creditors or his own voluntary transfer, was undetermined. He was waiting and considering, and only decided upon an assignment on the morning of the 27th. If such was the fact, then, within the rules laid down by the supreme court of Iowa, these preferences are not to be taken as part and parcel of the assignment, or as vitiating it.

In reference to the letter from Ott to White, with respect to holding the four car-loads of glass as security for freights, it is clear that this was only putting in writing an agreement made long before. For the testimony of White and Ott both show, and to their testimony there is no contradiction, that White, months before, had again and again urged prompt payment of freights, and that Ott had agreed to always leave on the track goods enough to secure any amount of freight that might be due. The prior agreement, though oral, was valid; and the letter was not a new contract, giving them a preference, but only a written expression of that which had theretofore been agreed upon, and agreed upon when there was no thought of an assignment. This brings the transaction within the reasoning of this court in the case of Hauselt v. Harrison, [[105 U.S. 401]], in which, as against the claims of an assignee in bankruptcy, a transfer made immediately before the adjudication in bankruptcy was held to relate back and to carry into effect an agreement entered into long before, and therefore not to be vitiated by the bankruptcy proceedings.

Further, it may be stated, as sustaining the conclusions of the circuit court, that the payments made by Ott during the few days before and up to the very time of the assignment were not extraordinary, not differing from the usual course of his business in prior months. McClelland's and Mueller's were only partial payments, and made in consequence of repeated requests, so that he was not hastening unnecessarily to pay or secure them. And, further, though there was a mortgage on his homestead which he might have paid off, though there was money in the bank which he might have withdrawn and pocketed, he did neither; nor did he act as though intending an assignment, or seeking to benefit himself as much as possible prior thereto. His conduct seems to have been in the utmost good faith; and while these drafts did operate to secure these creditors a portion of their claims, yet they were not given under such circumstances that the court must conclude that they were in anticipation of an assignment, or find that he was guilty of untruth in his testimony that when he made them he had not decided what to do. As intimated, the testimony in reference to these last matters does not leave the case free from doubt, yet we are of the opinion that the circuit court rightly read it, and properly held that it was not shown that at the date of those instruments Ott had determined upon an assignment. They were therefore valid as in the exercise by him of his undoubted ''jus disponendi;'' and the assignment subsequently determined upon and subsequently made was without preferences, was not void under the statute of Iowa, but was a valid general assignment, transferring all of the property then in his possession for the benefit of all his creditors.

The decree will be affirmed. 

==Notes==

{{smallrefs|refs=
&lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;&gt;Cowles v. Ricketts, 1 Iowa, 582; Meeker v. Sanders, 6 Iowa, 61; Burrows v. Lehndorff, 8 Iowa, 96; Johnson v. McGrew, 11 Iowa, 151; Fromme v. Jones, 13 Iowa, 474; Cole v Dealham, Id. 551; Graves v. Alden. Id. 573; Buell v. Buckingham, 16 Iowa, 284; Hutchinson v. Watkins, 17 Iowa. 475; Ruble v. McDonald, 18 Iowa, 493; Lampson v. Arnold, 19 Iowa, 479; Lyon v. McIlvaine, 24 Iowa, 9; Davis v. Gibbon, Id. 257, 263; Farwell v. Howard, 26 Iowa, 381; Van Patten v. Burr, 52 Iowa, 518, 3 N. W. Rep. 524; Id., 55 Iowa, 224, 7 N. W. Rep. 522; Kohn v. Clement, 58 Iowa, 589, 12 N. W. Rep. 550; Van Horn v. Smith, 59 Iowa, 142, 12 N. W. Rep. 789; Perry v. Vezina, 63 Iowa, 25, 18 N. W. Rep. 667; Farwell v. Jones, 63 Iowa, 316, 19 N. W. Rep. 241; Jaffray v. Greenbaum, 64 Iowa, 492, 20 N. W. Rep. 775; Bank v. Crittenden, 66 Iowa, 237, 23 N. W. Rep. 646; Carson v. Byers, 67 Iowa, 606, 25 N. W. Rep. 826; Gage v. Parry, 69 Iowa, 605, 29 N. W. Rep. 822; Garrett v. Plow Co., 70 Iowa, 697, 29 N. W. Rep. 395; Aulman v. Aulman, 71 Iowa, 124, 32 N. W. Rep. 240; Van Patten v. Thompson, 73 Iowa, 103, 34 N. W. Rep. 763; Bolles v. Creighton, 73 Iowa, 199, 34 N. W. Rep. 815; Loomis v. Stewart, 75 Iowa, 387, 39 N. W. Rep. 660; King v. Gustafson, 80 Iowa, 207, 45 N. W. Rep. 565; Bradley v. Bischel, (Iowa,) 46 N. W. Rep. 755.&lt;/ref&gt;}}

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    <title>Union Pacific Railroad Company v. Laramie Stock Yards Company/Opinion of the Court</title>
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&lt;div class='courtopinion'&gt;


Ejectment to recover certain described lands alleged to constitute part of the right of way of plaintiff (being such in the court below, we will so call it).

The allegations of the complaint are that plaintiff and defendant are corporations, and that plaintiff is engaged in the operation of a railroad from Ogden, in Utah, easterly through certain states to Council Bluffs, Iowa, and over the lands in controversy, they being portions of its right of way made by the act of Congress of July 1, 1862 [12 Stat. at L. 489, chap. 120], of the width of 400 feet. The right of way was acquired under said act of Congress, which is entitled, 'An Act to Aid in the Construction of a Railroad and Telegraph Line from the Missouri River to the Pacific Occan, and to Secure to the Government the Use of the Same for Postal, Military, and Other Purposes.' Section 2 of the act provides as follows: 'That the right of way through the public lands be and the same is hereby granted to said company [the Union Pacific Railroad Company] for the construction of said railroad and telegraph line; and the right, power, and authority is hereby given to said company to take from the public lands adjacent to the line of said road, earth, stone, timber, and other materials for the construction thereof; said right of way is granted to said railroad to the extent of two hundred feet in width on each side of said railroad where it may pass over the public lands, including all necessary grounds for stations, buildings, workshops, and depots, machine shops, switches, side tracks, turntables, and water stations.' By virtue of said act of Congress and amendatory acts, certain railroad companies, which are enumerated, theretofore organized and existing in pursuance of said acts, and subject to and enjoying the rights created thereby, were consolidated into a new corporation known as 'The Union Pacific Railway Company,' and the corporation thus created became vested with all the rights of the said constituent corporations, and the plaintiff has become the successor of the Union Pacific Railway Company and is entitled to the possession of the land in controversy, and that defendant wrongfully keeps it out of the possession thereof. The ground of the asserted right of defendant is alleged to be an act of Congress entitled, 'An Act Legalizing Certain Conveyances Heretofore Made by the Union Pacific Railroad Company,' approved June 24, 1912 [37 Stat. at L. 138, chap. 181], which act, it is alleged, is unconstitutional in that it seeks to deprive plaintiff of its vested rights and titles in and to the lands, and to deprive it of its lands and property without due process of law.

The answer of defendant admits all of the allegations of the complaint except the possession of the legal title to the lands in plaintiff, and that they are anlawfully held from it, and alleges that defendant and its immediate grantors have been for more than ten years prior to the filing of the complaint in the adverse possession thereof under the act of Congress of June 24, 1912, and that such possession constitutes a bar to the action.

Plaintiff demurred to the answer as not constituting a defense. The demurrer was overruled, and, plaintiff declining to plead further, judgment was entered that it 'take nothing in said action,' and that the defendant have and recover costs. This appeal was then prosecuted.

The crux of the controversy is the act of June 24, 1912. There is no question of the grant of the right of way and its extent, or that the lands in suit are within it.

The act provides that all conveyances and agreements heretofore made by the enumerated railway or railroad companies 'of certain land forming part of the right of way' under the act of Congress of July 1, 1862, 'and all conveyances or agreements confining the limits of said right of way, or restricting the same, are hereby legalized, validated, and confirmed to the extent that the same would have been legal or valid if the land involved therein had been held by the corporation making such conveyance or agreement under absolute or fee-simple title.

'That in all instances in which title or ownership of any part of said right of way heretofore mentioned is claimed as against said corporations or either of them, or the successors or assigns of any of them, by or through adverse possession of the character and duration prescribed by the laws of the state in which the land is situated, such adverse possession shall have the same effect as though the land embraced within the lines of said right of way had been granted by the United States absolutely or in fee instead of being granted as a right of way.'

Two contentions are made by plaintiff: (1) The act is not retroactive; (2) if it be so construed, it is unconstitutional because it takes plaintiff's vested right and title to the property, and transfers the same to defendant without due process of law.

It is established that the right of way to the several railroads was a present, absolute grant, subject to no conditions except those necessarily implied, such as that the roads should be constructed and used. And it has been decided that the right of way was a very important aid given to the roads (St. Joseph &amp; D. C. R. Co. v. Baldwin, [[103 U.S. 426]], 26 L. ed. 578; Stuart v. Union P. R. Co. [[227 U.S. 342]], 57 L. ed. 535, 33 Sup. Ct. Rep. 338), and that it could not be voluntarily transferred by the companies, nor acquired against them by adverse possession (Northern P. R. Co. v. Townsend, [[190 U.S. 267]], 47 L. ed. 1044, 23 Sup. Ct. Rep. 671; Northern P. R. Co. v. Smith, [[171 U.S. 260]], 275, 43 L. ed. 157, 163, 18 Sup. Ct. Rep. 794; Northern P. R. Co. v. Ely, [[197 U.S. 1]], 5, 49 L. ed. 639, 640, 25 Sup. Ct. Rep. 302). Of this defect of power in the companies and the defect of right in the possessors of the right of way, the act of June 24th was intended to be corrective. But of what time was it intended to speak-to the past or future?-to apply to that which was done, or that which was to be done? There is no doubt as to the answer in the case of agreements or conveyances by the company. The act is explicit that they are those 'heretofore made' by the enumerated companies. There is no such qualifying word of the 'title or ownership' 'claimed as against' the corporation by adverse possession. Construction, therefore, becomes necessary, and the first rule of construction is that legislation must be considered as addressed to the future, not to the past. The rule is one of obvious justice, and prevents the assigning of a quality or effect to acts or conduct which they did not have or did not contemplate when they were performed. The rule has been expressed in varying degrees of strength, but always of one import, that a retrospective operation will not be given to a statute which interferes with antecedent rights, or by which human action is regulated, unless such be 'the unequivocal and inflexible import of the terms, and the manifest intention of the legislature.' United States v. Heth, 3 Granch, 413, 2 L. ed. 483; Reynolds v. M'Arthur, 2 Pet. 417, 7 L. ed. 470; United States v. American Sugar Ref. Co. [[202 U.S. 563]], 577, 50 L. ed. 1149, 1152, 26 Sup. Ct. Rep. 717; Winfree v. Northern P. R. Co. [[227 U.S. 296]], 57 L. ed. 518, 33 Sup. Ct. Rep. 273. Surely such imperative character cannot be assigned to the words of the act of June 24; and the intention is not so manifest as to strengthen the insufficiency of the words. Indeed, all reasonable considerations determine the other way.

We have seen that the conveyances and agreements which were legalized were those theretofore made; that is, consummated acts of the company deliberately done to transfer its right. Can it be said that the adverse possession which was to transfer the right was to be less complete, not fully adverse in fact and law, at once assertive of title and concessive of it? It is to be remembered that there was no sanction of a right to the possession of the defendant, or possibility of a right by the railroad company's nonaction. There was not a moment of time in which the railroad was called upon to act or lose its right; there was not a moment of time when the possession of defendant initiated an adverse right or constituted an adverse right. This being the situation, it is difficult to believe-or certainly a belief is not compelled-that Congress intended to give to the past conduct of the railroad company a consequence it was not intended to have and did not have. A statute having such a result may incur the opposition of the Constitution. When such may be the result, a different construction of the statute is determined. United States ex rel. Atty. Gen. v. Delaware &amp; H. Co. [[213 U.S. 366]], 408, 53 L. ed. 836, 849, 29 Sup. Ct. Rep. 527; Harriman v. Interstate Commerce Commission, [[211 U.S. 407]], 53 L. ed. 253, 29 Sup. Ct. Rep. 115.

In Sohn v. Waterson, 17 Wall. 596, 21 L. ed. 737, the questions we are now discussing came up for consideration. We there expressed, in considering a statute of limitations whose literal interpretation would have had the effect of making it applicable to actions which had accrued prior to its passage, the rule against retrospective operation,-the injustice and unconstitutionality of it. We said that a statute of limitations may affect actions which have accrued as well as those to accrue, and 'whether it does or not will depend upon the language of the act and the apparent intent of the legislature to be gathered therefrom.' But it was said that, even against a literal interpretation of the terms of the statute, 'it will be presumed that such was not the intent of the legislature. Such an intent would be unconstitutional. To avoid such a result, and to give the statute a construction that will enable it to stand, courts have given it a prospective operation.' and three modes were pointed out as having been adopted by the courts: (1) to make the statute apply only to causes of action arising after its passage; (2) to construe the statute as applying to such actions only as have run out a portion of the time, but which still have a reasonable time left for the prosecution of the action before the statutory time expires,-which reasonable time is to be estimated by the court,-leaving all other actions accruing prior to the statute unaffected by it; and (3) the rule announced in Ross v. Duval, 13 Pet. 62, 10 L. ed. 59, and Lewis v. Lewis, 7 How. 778, 12 L. ed. 910.

Of the first two modes there was condemnation. The third was approved. It was said of the first that it left 'all actions existing at the passage of the act, without any limitation.' Which would not be presumed as intended. The second was said to be founded on no better principle than the first, and was a more arbitrary rule than that, as it left 'a large class of actions entirely unprovided with any limitation whatever, or, as to them, unconstitutional.'

Speaking of the rule announced in the cited cases, it was said: 'In those cases certain statutes of limitation-one in Virginia and the other in Illinois-had originally excepted from their operation nonresidents of the state, but this exception had been afterwards repealed; and this court held that the nonresident parties had the full statutory time to bring their actions after the repealing acts were passed, although such actions may have accrued, at an earlier period. 'The question is,' says Chief Justice Taney (speaking in the latter of the cases just cited), 'from what time is this limitation to be calculated? Upon principle, it would seem to be clear that it must commence when the cause of action is first subjected to the operation of the statute, unless the legislature has otherwise provided.&quot;

Sohn v. Waterson was cited and its principle applied in Herrick v. Boquillas Land &amp; Cattle Co. [[200 U.S. 97]], 50 L. ed. 389, 26 Sup. Ct. Rep. 192. A paragraph in the statutes of Arizona prescribed a limitation of actions as follows: 'Any person who has a right of action for recovery of any lands, tenements, or hereditaments against another having peaceable and adverse possession thereof, cultivating, using, and enjoying the same, shall institute his suit therefor within ten years next after his cause of action shall have accrued, and not afterward.'

It will be observed that the language of the paragraph, as of the statute passed on in Sohn v. Waterson, or, it may be, the act of June 24th under review, literally interpreted, would apply to causes of action which have accrued. The supreme court of the territory refused to give that effect to the provision, and 'decided,' as this court said, 'that under no canon of construction or rule giving a retroactive effect to a new statute of limitations could paragraph 2938 be made to apply to the case.' And, after considering all possible constructions of the statute expressed by the supreme court of the territory, among others, that if it be construed as absolutely barring causes of action existing at the time of its passage, it was unconstitutional, citing Sohn v. Waterson, this court approved the views expressed, and said that the court committed no error in determining that under no possible hypothesis could the limitation prescribed operate to bar the plaintiff's action.

The principle of these cases forbids a retrospective operation to be given to the statute under consideration. To do so would cause in a high degree the evil and injustice of retroactive legislation. As said by plaintiff's counsel, the possession of defendant prior to the statute 'had no effect on the title, and was not, as between the parties, even a threat against it.' And we are loath to believe that Congress intended by an imperative declaration of law, immediately operating, to give defendant's possession another character,-one hostile to the title.

Defendant does not combat plaintiff's contentions based on considering the act of June 24th as one of limitation. Indeed, the admission is 'that prior to the passage of the act in controversy, title by adverse possession could not be acquired as against the plaintiff in error in its original right-of-way grant, and it is further admitted that title could not have been acquired by adverse possession subsequent to the passage of the act.' Defendant does not regard the act as a limitation of the remedy, but as amendatory of the charter of the company,-an exercise of a right reserved in the acts of 1862  and 1864.   The argument is, disregarding its involutions, that the right of way was not a right in fee, but only a right to use, which was forfeited by nonuse, and that the right which thereby reverted to the United States was, by the act of June 24th, conveyed to those in possession of the land. And the exercise of the right reserved, it is contended, neither impairs any contract with the railroad nor devests its property. Nor does it come under the condemnation of being retroactive legislation, it is further contended. We need not follow the discussion by which these contentions are attempted to be supported. We meet them all by the declaration that Congress, by the act of June 24th, did not intend to exercise the power over the charters of the companies reserved to it. The exercise of such power would naturally only find an impulse in some large national purpose, and would hardly be provoked by a desire to legalize the encroachments here and there on the right of way of a transcontinental railroad.

We are constrained to believe that when Congress intends to forfeit or limit any of the rights conveyed to aid that great enterprise, it will do so explicitly and directly

'Congress may at any time, having due regard for the rights of said companies named herein, add to, alter, amend, or repeal this act.' 12 Stat. at L. 497, chap. 120.

'And be it further enacted, that Congress may at any time after, amend, or repeal this act.' 13 Stat. at L. 365, chap. 216. by a measure proportionate to the purpose, and not leave it to be accomplished in a piecemeal and precarious way,-not by confirming a few conveyances which may have been made, or legalizing trespasses which may be made.

But if it could be conceded that the act of June 24th was intended as an amendment of the charters of the companies, the question would still occur as to its effect,-as to what time it should be considered as applying, whether to the past or the future. That question we have decided.

Judgment reversed and cause remanded, with directions to sustain the demurrer to the answer.

Mr. Justice Hughes dissents.

Mr. Justice Holmes, Mr. Justice Lurton, and Mr. Justice Pitney took no part in the decision. 

==Notes==

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&lt;div class='courtopinion'&gt;
In 1940 the only two daily newspapers in Tucson, the Citizen, an evening paper, and the Star, a daily and Sunday paper, negotiated a joint operating agreement, which was to run for 25 years. Prior thereto the papers had been vigorous competitors. The agreement provided that each paper was to retain its news and editorial departments and corporate identity, but that generally business operations were to be integrated. Three types of controls were imposed: (1) price-fixing—papers were to be distributed and advertising sold by a jointly held company, and subscription and advertising rates were to be set jointly; (2) profit pooling—all profits were to be pooled and distributed under an agreed ratio; and (3) market control—neither paper nor any of their stockholders or officers were to engage in any other business in the county in conflict with the agreement. In 1953 the agreement was extended until 1990. Combined profits before taxes rose from $27,531 in 1940 to $1,727,217 in 1964. In 1965 the Star's stock was acquired by Citizen's shareholders pursuant to an option in the agreement, and the Star is now published by a company formed as a vehicle for the acquisition. The Government charged appellants with unreasonable restraint of trade in violation of § 1 of the [[Sherman Act]], monopolization in violation of § 2 of that Act, and violation of § 7 of the [[Clayton Act]] by the acquisition of the Star stock. The District Court found that the agreement contained provisions unlawful ''per se'' under § 1 of the Sherman Act and granted the Government's motion for summary judgment. The case was tried on the other charges and the court found monopolization of the newspaper business in Tucson in violation of § 2 of the Act, and held that, in Pima County, the appropriate geographic market, acquisition of the Star caused a substantial lessening of competition in daily newspaper publishing in violation of § 7 of the Clayton Act. The decree requires appellants to submit a plan for divestiture of the Star and its re-establishment as an independent competitor and to modify the joint operating agreement to eliminate price-fixing, market control, and profit-pooling provisions.


''Held:''

:1. The violations of § 1 of the Sherman Act are plain, as price-fixing is illegal ''per se'', pooling of profits pursuant to an inflexible ratio reduces incentives to compete, and the agreement not to engage in any other publishing business in Pima County is a division of fields proscribed by the Act. Pp. 135-136.

:2. The requirements of the failing company doctrine were not met. Pp. 136-139.

::(a) There is no indication that the Citizen's owners were thinking of liquidating the company or selling the newspaper, and there is no evidence that the agreement was the last straw at which the Citizen grasped. Pp. 137-138.

::(b) The failing company doctrine can be applied only if it is established that the acquiring company is the only available purchaser. P. 138.

::(c) The prospects for the failing company of reorganization through receivership or through Chapter X or Chapter XI of the Bankruptcy Act would have to be dim or nonexistent to make the failing company doctrine applicable. P. 138.

::(d) The burden of proving that the requirements of the doctrine are met is on those who seek refuge under it, and that burden has not been satisfied here. Pp. 138-139.

:3. The decree deals only with private restraints on business competition and does not regulate news gathering or dissemination in derogation of [[First Amendment to the United States Constitution|First Amendment]] rights. ''Associated Press v. United States'', [[326 U.S. 1]]. Pp. 139-140.


280 F.Supp. 978, affirmed.


''Richard J. MacLaury'' argued the cause for appellants. With him on the briefs were ''Francis N. Marshall, Thomas J. Klitgaard, John L. Donahue, Jr.'', and ''George Read Carlock''.

''Daniel M. Friedman'' argued the cause for the United States. On the brief were ''Attorney General Clark, Solicitor General Griswold, Assistant Attorney General Zimmerman, Howard E. Shapiro, Charles D. Mahaffie, Jr.'', and ''Gerald A. Connell''.

Briefs of ''amici curiae'' urging reversal were filed by ''Arthur B. Hanson'' for the American Newspaper Publishers Assn., and by ''Robert L. Stern'' for a number of newspaper publishers.

==Notes==

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PUBLIC LAW 109–351—OCT. 13, 2006
(2) by striking the comma after ‘‘his shares shall equal’’.

SEC. 302. SIMPLIFYING DIVIDEND CALCULATIONS FOR NATIONAL
BANKS.

(a) IN GENERAL.—Section 5199 of the Revised Statutes of the
United States (12 U.S.C. 60) is amended to read as follows:
‘‘SEC. 5199. NATIONAL BANK DIVIDENDS.

‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—Subject to subsection (b), the directors of
any national bank may declare a dividend of so much of the undivided profits of the bank as the directors judge to be expedient.
‘‘(b) APPROVAL REQUIRED UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.—
A national bank may not declare and pay dividends in any year
in excess of an amount equal to the sum of the total of the net
income of the bank for that year and the retained net income
of the bank for the preceding 2 years, minus the sum of any
transfers required by the Comptroller of the Currency and any
transfers required to be made to a fund for the retirement of
any preferred stock, unless the Comptroller of the Currency
approves the declaration and payment of dividends in excess of
such amount.’’.
(b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of sections for chapter
three of title LXII of the Revised Statutes of the United States
is amended by striking the item relating to section 5199 and
inserting the following:
‘‘5199. National bank dividends.’’.
SEC.

303.

REPEAL OF OBSOLETE LIMITATION ON REMOVAL
AUTHORITY OF THE COMPTROLLER OF THE CURRENCY.

Section 8(e)(4) of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act (12 U.S.C.
1818(e)(4)) is amended by striking the 5th sentence.
SEC. 304. REPEAL OF OBSOLETE PROVISION IN THE REVISED STATUTES.

Section 5143 of the Revised Statutes of the United States
(12 U.S.C. 59) is amended to read as follows:
‘‘SEC. 5143. REDUCTION OF CAPITAL.

‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—Subject to the approval of the Comptroller
of the Currency, a national banking association may, by a vote
of shareholders owning, in the aggregate, two-thirds of its capital
stock, reduce its capital.
‘‘(b) SHAREHOLDER DISTRIBUTIONS AUTHORIZED.—As part of its
capital reduction plan approved in accordance with subsection (a),
and with the affirmative vote of shareholders owning at least two
thirds of the shares of each class of its stock outstanding (each
voting as a class), a national banking association may distribute
cash or other assets to its shareholders.’’.
SEC. 305. ENHANCING THE AUTHORITY FOR BANKS TO MAKE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT INVESTMENTS.

(a) NATIONAL BANKS.—The paragraph designated as the ‘‘Eleventh.’’ of section 5136 of the Revised Statutes of the United States
(12 U.S.C. 24) is amended to read as follows:
‘‘Eleventh. To make investments directly or indirectly, each
of which promotes the public welfare by benefiting primarily low- and moderate-income communities or families (such as by providing

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94 STAT. 335

Public Law 96-235
96th Congress
An Act
To amend the District of Columbia Self-Government and Governmental Reorganization Act to authorize the Council of the District of Columbia to delegate its
authority to issue revenue bonds for undertakings in the area of housing to any
housing finance agency established by it and to provide that payments of such
bonds may be made without further approval.

Apr. 12, 1980
[H.R. 3824]

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America in Congress assembled. That section 490 ofB.C.
the District of Columbia Self-Government and Governmental Reorga- Revenue bonds
nization Act, relating to revenue bonds and other obligations, is for housing,
issuance.
amended by adding after subsection (f) the following new subsection: Delegation of
&quot;(g)(1) The Council may delegate to any housing finance agency authority.
established by it (whether established before or after the date of the D.C. Code 47-254.
enactment of this subsection) the authority of the Council under
subsection (a) to issue revenue bonds, notes, and other obligations to
borrow money to finance or assist in the financing of undertakings in
the area of primarily low- and moderate-income housing. The Council
shall define for the purposes of the preceding sentence what undertakings shall constitute undertakings in the area of primarily low-and moderate-income housing. Any such housing finance agency may
exercise authority delegated to it by the Council as described m the
first sentence of this paragraph (whether such delegation is made
before or after the date of the enactment of this subsection) only in
accordance with this subsection.
&quot;(2) Revenue bonds, notes, and other obligations issued by a
housing finance agency of the District under a delegation of authority
described in paragraph (1) shall be issued by resolution of the agency,
and any such resolution shall not be considered to be an act of the
Council.
&quot;(3) The fourth sentence of section 446 shall not apply to (A) the D.C. Code
expenditure of funds derived from the sale of any revenue bond, note, 47-224.
or other obligation issued by a housing finance agency established by
the Council to which a delegation of authority described in paragraph
(1) has been made, (B) the creation by such an agency of a security
interest in the revenues or assets of such agency in connection with
the sale of any such bond, note, or other obligation, or (C) the
payment (as to either principal or interest or both) of any such bond,
note, or other obligation.&quot;.
Approved April 12, 1980.
LEGISLATIVE HISTORY:
HOUSE REPORTS: No. 96-129 (Comm. on the District of Columbia) and No. 96-830
(Comm. of Conference).
SENATE REPORTS: No. 96-262 (Comm. on Governmental Affairs) and No. 96-619
(Comm. of Conference).
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD:
Vol. 125 (1979): May 14, considered and passed House.
Aug. 2, considered and passed Senate, amended.
Vol. 126 (1980): Mar. 11, Senate agreed to conference report.
Apr. 1, House agreed to conference report.
WEEKLY COMPILATION OF PRESIDENTIAL DOCUMENTS:
Vol. 16, No. 16 (1980): Apr. 12, Presidential statement.

79-194

O—81—pt. 1

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92 STAT. 3223

public utility and for good cause, determines that such law o r regulation prohibits a public utility from taking any action required to be
taken under this Part o r that such law or regulation requires o r permits any public utility to take any action prohibited under this Part.
(b) L A W S KELATING TO U N F A I R COMPETITION AND DECEPTIVE ACT S. —

Nothing in this Part shall be construed as restricting the authority of
any agency o r instrumentality of the United States o r of any State
under any provision of law to prevent unfair methods of competition
and unfair o r deceptive acts or practices.
(c) T R U T H I N LENDING.—Nothing contained in section 104(4) of
the T r u t h in Lending Act (15 U.S.C. 1603 (4)) or the regulations issued
ursuant thereto shall be deemed to exempt sales or credit extensions
y public utilities under this Part.

E

(d) MANUFACTURER'S W A R R A N T I E S. — W i t h respect to the last sen-

tence of section 210(11) respecting warranties offered by a manufacturer, all Federal and State laws otherwise applicable to such
warranties offered by a manufacturer shall apply, except to the extent
inconsistent with such last sentence.
SEC. 221. RULES.
The Secretary is authorized to promulgate such rules as he determines may be necessary to carry out this Part.
SEC. 222. PRODUCT STANDARDS.
The Secretary shall consult with the Secretary of Commerce, acting
through the National Bureau of Standard s, with regard to any product
or material standard which is relied on in implementing this Part as a
basis for j u d g i n g the efficacy, e n e r ^ efficiency, safety, or other a t t r i butes of energy conservation materials, products, or devices, and with
the Federal Trade Commission for the purpose of insuring that such
standards do not operate to deceive consumers or unreasonaoly restrict
consumer o r producer options, and that such standards (when applicable) are suitable as a basis for making truthful and reliable disclosures to consumers regarding performance and safety attributes of
energy conservation products, materials, and devices.
SEC. 223. AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.
There a r e hereby authorized to be appropriated $5,000,000 to the
Secretary for each of the first three fiscal years 1979, 1980, and 1981,
to carry out his responsibilities under this Part.
SEC. 224. REPORT ON ENERGY CONSERVATION IN APARTMENT
BUILDINGS.
(a) REPORT.—The Secretary shall, within six months after the date
of enactment of this Act, p r e p a r e a report on the potential for energy
conservation i n a part m e n t buildings.
(b) CONSIDERATION REQUIRED.—The report required under this section shall include a consideration of:
(1) structural and energy control measures which may result
in energy conservation in apartment buildings;
(2) potential for energy conservation i n a part m e n t buildings
which could be achieved by the application of a utility program
(such as provided in this part) to a part m e n t buildings;
(^3) the costs of achieving energy conservation in apartment
buildings, and the need for Federal financial assistance to achieve
energy savings; andj
(4) recommendations for a p p r o p r i a t e legislation.

42 USC 8222.

42 USC 8223.

42 USC 8224.

42 USC 8225.

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92 STAT. 3237

(1) the extent to which such requirement would protect a prospective purchaser from the uncertainty of not knowing the
energy efficiency of the property he proposes to purchase;
(2) the extent to which such requirement would contribute to
the Nation's energy conservation goals;
(3) the extent to which such a requirement would affect the
real estate, home building, and mortgage banking industries;
(4) the sanctions which might be necessary to make such a
requirement effective and the administrative impediments there
might be to enforcement of such sanctions;
(5) the possible impact on sellers and purchasers as a result of
the implementation of mandatory Federal actions, taking into
account the experience of the Federal Government in imposing
mandatory requirements concerning the purchase and sale of real
property as occurred under the Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act of 1974 and the Federal Disaster Protection Act of
1973'
(6) an analysis of the effect of such a requirement on the economy as a whole and on the Nation's security as compared to the
impact on the credit and housing markets caused by such a
requirement;
(7) the effect of such a requirement on availability of credit
in the housing i n d u s t r y;
(8) the extent to which the imposition of mandatory Federal
requirements would temporarily reduce the number of residential
dwellings available for sale and the resulting effect of such mandatory actions on the price of those remaining dwelling units
eligible for sale; and
(9) the possible uncertainty, during the period of developing
the standards, as to what standards might be imposed and any
resulting effect on major housing rehabilitation efforts and voluntary efforts for energy conservation.

12 USC 2601
note.
^^ ^^^ ^^^^
^^^^'

(c) COMMENTS AND F I N D I N G S B T SECRETARY OP E N E R G Y. — The Secre-

t a r y shall incorporate into such study comments by the Secretary of
E n e r ^ on the effects on the economy as a whole and on the Nation's
security which may result from the requirement described in subsection (a) as compared to the impact on the credit and housing markets
likely to be cau-^ed by such a requirement. I n addition, the Secretary
shall incorporate into such study the following findings by the
Secretary of Energy:
(1) the savings in energy costs resulting from the requirement
described in subsection (a) throughout the estimated remaining
useful life of the existing residential buildings to which such
*
requirement would a p p l y; and
(2) the total cost per barrel of oil equivalent, in obtaining the
energy savings likely to result from such requirement, computed
for each class of existing residential buildings to which such
requirement would apply.
(d) REPORT DATE. — The Secretary shall report, no later than one
year after the date of enactment of this section, to both Houses of the
Congress with regard to the findings made as a result of such study
along with any recommendations for legislative proposals which the
Secretary determines should be enacted with respect to the subject of
such study.
SEC. 254. WEATHERIZATION STUDY.
The President shall conduct a study which shall monitor the weath- 42 USC 8233.
erization activities authorized by this Act and amendments made&lt;noinclude&gt;
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92 STAT. 2089

than other reasonable alternatives by which the Secretary can further
the goals of—
(1) preserving the housing units so that they can remain available to and affordable by low- and moderate-income families;
(2) preserving and revitalizing residential neighborhoods;
(3) maintaining the existing housing stock in a decent, safe,
and sanitary condition;
(4) minimizing the involuntary displacement of tenants; and
(5) minimizing the need to demolish projects.
The Secretary, in determining the manner by which a project shall be
managed or disposed of, may balance competing goals relating to
individual projects in a manner which will further the achievement of
the overall purpose of this section.
(b) The Secretary is authorized, in carrying out this section—
(1) to dispose of a niultifamily housing project owned by the
Secretary on a negotiated, competitive bid, or other basis, on such
terms as the Secretary deems appropriate considering the low- and moderate-income character of the project and the requirements of subsection (a) of this section, to a purchaser determined
by the Secretary to be capable of (A) satisfying the conditions
of the disposition; (B) implementing a sound financial and
physical management program; (C) responding to the needs of
the tenants and working cooperatively with resident organizations; (D) providing adequate organizational, staff and financial
resources to the project; and (E) meeting such other requirements as the Secretary may determine; and
(2) to contract for management services for a multifamily
housing project, owned by the Secretary, on a negotiated, competitive bid, or other basis at a price determined by the Secretary to
be reasonable, with a manager the Secretary has determined is
capable of (A) implementing a sound financial and physical
management program, (B) responding to the needs of the tenants and working cooperatively with resident organizations, (C)
providing adequate organizational, staff, and other resources to
implement a management program determined by the Secretary,
and (D) meeting such other requirements as the Secretary may
determine.
(e) Except where the Secretary has determined on a case-by-case
basis that it would be clearly inappropriate, given the manner by
which an individual project is to be managed or disposed of pursuant
to subsection (a) of this section, the Secretary shall seek to—
(1) maintain all occupied multifamily housing projects owned
by the Secretary in a decent, safe, and sanitary condition; and
(2) to the greatest extent possible, maintain full occupancy in
all multifamily housing projects owned by the Secretary.
(d)(1) Whenever tenants will be displaced as a result of the dis- Tenant
position of, or repairs to, a multifamily housing project owned by the displacement,
Secretary, the Secretary shall identify tenants who will be displaced, notification.
and shall notify all such tenants of their pending displacement and of
any relocation assistance which may be available.
(2) The Secretary shall seek to assure the maximum opportunity
for any such tenant—
(A) to return, whenever possible, to a repaired unit;
(B) to occupy a unit in another multifamily housing project
owned by the Secretary;
(C) to obtain housing assistance under the United States
Housing Act of 1937; or
42 USC 1437
note.&lt;noinclude&gt;
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    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 90 Part 2.djvu/582</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1012664</id>
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Application,
approval.

Report to
Congress.

PUBLIC LAW 94-469—OCT. 11, 1976
(D) contain or be supported by assurances satisfactory to the
Administrator that such program shall, to the extent feasible,
be integrated with other programs of the applicant for environmental and public health protection,
(E) provide for the making of such reports and evaluations
as the Administrator may require, and
(F) contain such other information as the Administrator may
prescribe.
(2) The Administrator may approve an application submitted in
accordance with paragraph (1) only if the applicant has established to
the satisfaction of the Administrator a priority need, as determined
under rules of the Administrator, for the grant for which the application has been submitted. Such rules shall take into consideration the
seriousness of the health effects in a State which are associated with
chemical substances or mixtures, including cancer, birth defects, and
gene mutations, the extent of the exposure in a State of human beings
and the environment to chemical substances and mixtures, and the
extent to which chemical substances and mixtures are manufactured,
processed, used, and disposed of in a State.
(c) ANNUAL REPORTS.—Not later than six months after the end of
each of the fiscal years 1979, 1980, and 1981, the Administrator shall
submit to the Congress a report respecting the programs assisted by
grants under subsection (a) in the preceding fiscal year and the extent
to which the Administrator has disseminated information respecting
such programs.
(d) AUTHORIZATION.—For the purpose of making grants under
subsection (a) there are authorized to be appropriated $1,500,000 for
the fiscal year ending September 30, 1977, $1,500,000 for the fiscal year
ending September 30, 1978, and $1,500,000 for the fiscal year ending
September 30, 1979. Sums appropriated under this subsection shall
remain available until expended.
SEC. 29. AUTHORIZATION FOR APPROPRIATIONS.

15 USC 2628.

Report to
President and
G&gt;ngres8.
15 USC 2629.

f

There are authorized to be appropriated to the Administrator for
purposes of carrying out this Act (other than sections 27 and 28 and
subsections (a) and (c) through (g) of section 10 thereof) $10,100,000
for the fiscal year ending September 30, 1977, $12,625,000 for the fiscal
year ending September 30, 1978, $16,200,000 for the fiscal year ending
September 30, 1979. No part of the funds appropriated under this
section may be used to construct any research laboratories.
SEC. 30. ANNUAL REPORT.
The Administrator shall prepare and submit to the President and
the Congress on or before January 1, 1978, and on or before January 1
of each succeeding year a comprehensive report on the administration
of this Act during the preceding fiscal year. Such report shall include—
(1) a list of the testing required under section 4 during the year
for which the report is made and an estimate of the costs incurred
during such year by the persons required to perform such tests;
(2) the number of notices received during such year under
section 5, the number of such notices received during such year
under such section for chemical substances subject to a section 4
rule, and a summary of any action taken during such year under
section 5(g);
(3) a list of rules issued during such year under section 6;
(4) a list, with a brief statement of the issues, of completed or
pending judicial actions under this Act and administrative actions
under section 16 during such year;&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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20 USC 1134r-l.

PUBLIC LAW 94-482—OCT. 12, 1976
subsistence and other expenses for such persons and their dependents)
as he may determine to be consistent with prevailing practices under
comparable federally supported programs.
&quot; (b) The Commissioner shall (in addition to the stipends paid to
persons under subsection (a)) pay to the institution of higher education at which such person is pursuing his course of study, such amounts
as the Commissioner may determine to be consistent with prevailing
practices under comparable federally supported programs, except
that such amount charged to a fellowship recipient and collected from
such recipient by the institution for tuition and other expenses required
by the institution as part of the recipient's instructional program shall
be deducted from the payments to the institution under this
subsection.&quot;.
(5) Section 966 of the Act is amended by striking out &quot; July 1, 1978&quot;
and inserting in lieu thereof &quot;October 1, 1979&quot;.
(e) Title IX of the Act is amended by inserting after part D the
following new part:
&quot; P A R T E — A N N U A L F E L L O W S H I P REPORT
UREPORT

20 USC 1134r-2.

ON GRADUATE FELLOWSHIPS AND ASSISTANCE

&quot; SEC. 971. (a) W i t h i n one hundred and twenty days after the end of
each fiscal year during which g r a n t s or fellowships are awarded
under the provisions of this title the Commissioner shall p r e p a r e
and submit to the Congress a report which—
&quot; (1) specifies the authority for and amount of each g r a n t or
fellowship so a w a r d e d;
&quot; (2) identifies the institutions which received such g r a n t s; and
&quot; (3) identifies the institutions which students receiving such
fellowships attended.
&quot; (b) E a c h report required by this section shall contain an evaluation
which—
&quot; (1) examines the extent to which g r a n t s or fellowships
awarded under this title emphasized studies relating to—
&quot; (A) innovation in the field of graduate education;
&quot; (B) emerging fields of knowledge;
&quot; (C) areas of overriding national concern; or
&quot; (D) the education and employment of personnel in areas
which the Commissioner finds to be of special need; and
&quot; (2) examines the extent to which grants and fellowships
awarded under this title made substantial progress toward achieving the purposes of the various part s of this title under which they
were awarded.&quot;.
LAW SCHOOL CLINICAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM

20 USC 1136b.

SEC. 172. Section 1103 of the Act is amended by striking out &quot; July 1,
1975&quot; and inserting in lieu thereof &quot;October 1, 1979&quot;.
P A R T I — COMMUNITY COLLEGES AND STATE POSTSECONDARY P L A N N I N G
EXTENSION AND REVISION OF TITLE X

SEC. 176. (a)(1) The heading of title X of the Act is amended to
read as follows:&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mjnep1dc9l9jle6goa4gp3i4sbsfmc9</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 90 Part 2.djvu/889</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1012977</id>
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9 0 STAT. 2357

&quot; (c) REPORTS.—The Commission shall submit to the President and Reports to
the Congress such interim reports as it deems advisable, and not later President and
than three years after the day on which the first appropriation is made Congress.
available under subsection (d), a final report containing a detailed
statement of the findings and conclusions of the Commission, together
with such recommendations for legislation as it deems advisable.
&quot; (d) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.—There are authorized to

be appropriated to the Commission, effective with the fiscal year
beginning October 1, 1977, such sums as may be necessary to carry out
the provisions of this section.&quot;.
SEC. 12. PROHIBITION ON USE FOR LOBBYING PURPOSES.
Section 123 (relating to miscellaneous provisions) is amended by 31 USC 1243.
adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:
&quot; (e) PROHIBITION OF U S E FOR LOBBYING PURPOSES.—No State gov-

ernment or unit of local government may use any part of the funds i t
receives under subtitle A for the purpose of lobbying or other activities
intended to influence any legislation regarding the provisions of this
Act. For the purpose of this subsection, dues paid to National or State
associations shall be deemed not to have been paid from funds received
under subtitle A.&quot;.
SEC. 13. EFFECTIVE DATES.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this Act, the amendments made
by this Act shall apply to entitlement periods beginning on or after
January 1, 1977.
(b) The amendment made by section 11 takes effect on February 1,
1977.
Approved October 13, 1976.

LEGISLATIVE HISTORY:
HOUSE REPORTS: No. 94-1165, Part 1 and No. 94-1165, Part II (both from Comm.
on Government Operations), No. 94-1165, Part 3 (Comm. on
Appropriations) and No. 94-1720 (Comm. of Conference).
SENATE REPORT No. 94-1207 (Comm. on Finance).
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD:
Vol. 122 (1976): June 10, considered and passed House.
Sept. 13, 14, considered and passed Senate, amended.
Sept. 30, House receded and concurred in Senate amendment
with an amendment; Senate agreed to House amendment.
WEEKLY COMPILATION OF PRESIDENTIAL DOCUMENTS:
VoL 12, No. 40 (1976): Sept. 30, Presidential statement.
Vol. 12, No. 42 (1976): Oct. 13, Presidential statement.

31 USC 1221.

31 USC 1222
&quot;°*^31 USC 1265
note.&lt;noinclude&gt;
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Presidential
report to
Congress.
22 USC 2220e.

PUBLIC LAW 94-161—DEC. 20, 1975
&quot;SEC. 300. ANNUAL, REPORT.—The President shall transmit to the

Congress, not later than April 1 of each year, a report detailing the
activities carried out pursuant to this title during the preceding fiscal
yg^j. g^^^ containing a projection of programs and activities to be
conducted during the subsequent five fiscal years. Each report shall
contain a summary of the activities of the Board established pursuant
to section 298 of this title and may include the separate views of the
Board with respect to any aspect of the programs conducted or proposed to be conducted under this title.&quot;.
INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS AND PROGRAMS

22 USC 2222.

22 USC 2225.
22 USC 2221.

SEC. 313. (a) Section 302 of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 is
amended—
(1) in subsection (a), by (A) inserting immediately before
the period &quot;, and for the fiscal year 1976, $194,500,000 and for
the fiscal year 1977, $219,900,000. Of such amounts, not to exceed
$250,000 during the fiscal year 1976 shall be availabk&gt; for contribution to the Namibia Institute&quot;, (B) inserting &quot; (1) &quot; immediately after &quot; (a) &quot; and (C) adding at the end of the subsection
the following new paragraph:
&quot;(2) The Congress reaffirms its support for the work of the
Inter-American Commission on Human Rights. To permit such
Commission to better fulfill its function of insuring observance
and respect for human rights within this hemisphere, not less than
$357,000 of the amount appropriated for fiscal year 1976 and
$358,000 of the amount appropriated for fiscal year 1977, for contributions to the Organization of American States, shall be used
only for budgetary support for the Inter-American Commission
on Human Eights.&quot;;
(2) in subsection (b)(1), by striking out &quot;$51,220,000&quot; and
inserting in lieu thereof &quot;$61,220,000&quot;:
(3) in subsection (b)(2), by inserting &quot;and for use beginning
in the fiscal year 1976, $27,000,000,&quot; immediately after &quot;fiscal year
1975, $14,500,000,&quot;; and
(4) in subsection (d) by striking out &quot;1974 and 1975,
$18,000,000&quot; and inserting in lieu thereof &quot;1976 and 1977,
$20,000,000&quot;.
(b) Section 54 of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1974 is amended
by striking out &quot;part III &quot; and inserting in lieu thereof &quot;part I&quot;.
(c) Section 301 of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 is amended
by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:
&quot;(f) The President is hereby authorized to permit United States
participation in the International Fertilizer Development Center and
is authorized to use any of the funds made available under this part
for the purpose of furnishing assistance to the Center on such terms
and conditions as he may determine.&quot;.
ASSISTANCE TO FORMER PORTUGUESE COLONIES I N AFRICA

22 USC 2293.

SEC. 314. Section 496 of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 is
amended—
(1) by inserting &quot; (a) &quot; immediately after the section caption:
(2) by stiliking out &quot;$5,000,000&quot; and inserting in lieu thereof
&quot;$7,750,000&quot; &gt;
(3) by striking out &quot;$20,000,000&quot; and inserting in lieu thereof
&quot;$17,250,000&quot;; and&lt;noinclude&gt;
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PUBLIC LAW 93-633-JAN. 3, 1975

[88 STAT.

(2) establish and maintain a central reporting system and data
center so as to be able to provide the law-enforcement and firefighting personnel of communities, and other interested persons and
government officers, with technical and other information and
advice for meeting emergencies connected with the transportation of hazardous materials; and
(3) conduct a continuing review of all aspects of the transportation of hazardous materials in order to determine and to be
able to recommend appropriate steps to assure the safe transportation of hazardous materials.
Presid°ent^°trans.
(®) ANNUAL REPORT.—The Sccrctarj shall prepare and submit to
mittai to Conthc Presidcut for transmittal to the Congress on or before May 1 of
g'^^ss.
each year a comprehensive report on the transportation of hazardous
Contents.
matcHals during the preceding calendar year. Such report shall
include, but need not be limited to—
(1) a thorough statistical compilation of any accidents and
casualties involving the transportation of hazardous materials;
(2) a list and summary of applicable Federal regulations, criteria, orders, and exemptions in effect;
(3) a summary of the basis for any exemptions granted or maintained;
(4) an evaluation of the effectiveness of enforcement activities
and the degree of voluntary compliance with applicable regulations;
(5) a summary of outstanding problems confronting the administration of this title, in order of priority; and
(6) such recommendations for additional legislation as are
deemed necessary or appropriate.
PENALTIES
49 USC 1809.

SEC. 110, (a) CIVIL.— (1) Any person (except an employee who acts
without knowledge) who is determined by the Secretary, after notice
and an opportunity for a hearing, to have knowingly committed an act
which is a violation of a provision of this title or of a regulation issued
under this title, shall be liable to the United States for a civil penalty.
Whoever knowingly commits an act which is a violation of any regulation, applicable to any person who transports or causes to be transported or shipped hazardous materials, shall be subject to a civil
penalty of not more than $10,000 for each violation, and if any such
violation is a continuing one, each day of violation constitutes a separate offense. Whoever knowingly commits an act which is a violation
of any regulation applicable to any person who manufactures, fabricates, marks, maintains, reconditions, repairs, or tests a package or
container which is represented, marked, certified, or sold by such
person for use in the transportation in commerce of hazardous materials shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $10,000 for each
violation. The amount of any such penalty shall be assessed by the Secretary by written notice. I n determining the amount of such penalty,
the Secretary shall take into account the nature, circumstances, extent,
and gravity of the violation committed and, with respect to the person
found to have committed such violation, the degree of culpability, any
history of prior offenses, ability to pay, effect on ability to continue to
do business, and such other matters as justice may require.
(2) Such civil penalty may be recovered in an action brought by the
Attorney General on behalf of the United States in the appropriate
district court of the United States or, prior to referral to the Attorney
General, such civil penalty may be compromised by the Secretary.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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PUBLIC LAW 93-633-JAN. 3, 1975

[88 STAT.

(2) The Secretary shall take all steps necessary to bring orders,
determinations, rules, and regulations into conformity with the purposes and provisions of this title as soon as practicable, but in any
event no permits, contracts, certificates, licenses, or privileges granted
prior to the date of enactment of this title, or renewed or extended
thereafter, shall be of any effect more than 2 years after the date of
enactment of this title, unless there is full compliance with the purposes and provisions of this Act and regulations thereunder.
(c) Proceedings pending upon the date of enactment of this title
shall not be affected by the provisions of this title and shall be completed as if this title had not been enacted, unless the Secretary makes
a determination that the public health and safety otherwise require.
AUTHORIZATION TOR APPROPRIATIONS

49 USC 1812.
Rail Safety

gj;Q. 115, Thcpe is authorized to be appropriated for the purposes of
this title, not to exceed $7,000,000 for the fiscal year ending June 30,
1975.
TITLE II—KAIL SAFETY

Improvement Act
of 1974.
SHORT TITLE
45 USC 440
note.

SEC. 201. This title may be cited as the &quot;Kail Safety Improvement
Act of 1974&quot;.
DECLARATION

note &quot;^*^ ''''°
45 USC 431
note.

O F POLICY

SEC. 202. The Congress finds that more effective realization of the
purposes of the Federal Railroad Safety Act of 1970 requires that Act
to be amended to mandate comprehensive analysis and evaluation of
the rail safety program, to increase the amount and percentage of
available resources for inspection, investigation, and enforcement, and
to increase the enforcement powers of the Secretary of Transportation.
C O M P R E H E N S IV E RAILROAD SAFETY REPORT

Presi'dJnt'and
cong'ret&quot;.^&quot;
Contents.

45 USC 435.

SEC. 203. Section 211 of the Federal Kailroad Safety Act of 1970
(45 U.S.C. 440) is amended by adding at the end thereof the following
new subsection:
&quot;^^^^ SPECIAL REPORT,—The Secretary shall prepare and submit to
the Prcsldeut and the Congress, not later than March 17, 1976, a
comprchensivc railroad safety report. Such report shall—
&quot; (1) contain a description of the areas of railroad safety with
respect to which Federal safety standards issued under this Act
are in effect (as of June 30, 1975);
&quot;(2) identify any area of railroad safety with respect to which
Federal safety standards have been proposed but have not been
issued under this Act (as of June 30, 1975);
&quot;(3) identify any area of railroad safety with respect to which
Federal safety standards have not been issued under this Act (as
of June 30, 1975);
&quot;(4) identify alternative and more cost-effective methods for
inspection and enforcement of Federal safety standards, including
mechanical and electronic inspectioUj and contain an evaluation
of problems involved in implementing such alternatives, with
specific attention to the need for cooperation with the railroad
industry;
&quot;(5) identify the areas of railroad safety listed in accordance
with paragraphs (1) through (3) of this subsection which involve,
or which may involve. State participation under section 206 of
^j^ig ^ c t;&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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PUBLIC LAW 100-242—FEB. 5, 1988

Subtitle C—Multifamily Housing Management
and Preservation
SEC. 181. MANAGEMENT AND PRESERVATION OF HUD-OWNED MULTIFAMILY HOUSING PROJECTS.

(a) GOALS.—Section 203(a) of the Housing and Community Devel12 USC 1701Z-11. opment Amendments of 1978 is amended by striking &quot;(a)&quot; and all
that follows through the semicolon at the end of paragraph (1) and
inserting the following:
„,-^. j,
&quot;(a) The Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (in this
section referred to as the 'Secretary') shall manage or dispose of
multifamily housing projects that are owned by the Secretary, or
that are subject to a mortgage held by the Secretary that is either
delinquent, under a workout agreement, or being foreclosed upon by
the Secretary, in a manner that is consistent with the National
Housing Act and this section and that will, in the least costly
fashion among the reasonable alternatives available, further the
goals of—
&quot;(1) preserving so that they are available to and affordable by
low- and moderate-income persons—
&quot;(A) all units in multifamily housing projects that are
subsidized projects or formerly subsidized projects;
., ^,,.
&quot;(B) in other multifamily housing projects owned by the
M. i'
»
•
Secretary, at least the units that are occupied by low- and
,,„
moderate-income persons or vacant; and
&gt;tTj.
,(^Q^ ^^ ^2j other multifamily housing projects, at least the
units that are, on the date of assignment, occupied by low and moderate-income persons;&quot;.
(b) MANAGEMENT SERVICES.—Section 203(b)(2) of the Housing and

-^

K;

Community Development Amendments of 1978 is amended—
(1) by inserting &quot;(A)&quot; after the paragraph designation;
(2) by redesignating clauses (A) through (D) as clauses (i)
through (iv), respectively;
(3) by striking &quot;, owned by the Secretary&quot; and inserting the
following: &quot;subject to subsection (a) that is owned by the Secfij. ^
retary (or for which the Secretary is mortgagee in possession)&quot;;
(4) by striking the period at the end and inserting &quot;; and&quot;; and
(5) by adding at the end the following new subparagraph:
' «
•
&quot;(B) to require the owner of a multifamily housing project
subject to subsection (a) that is not owned by the Secretary (and
for which the Secretary is not mortgagee in possession), to
contract for management services for the project in the manner
'
described in subparagraph (A).&quot;.
(c) MAINTAINING OF PROJECTS.—Section 203(c) of the Housing and

, itTi

ii \:

Community Development Amendments of 1978 is amended to read
as follows:
&quot;(c)(1) In the case of multifamily housing projects subject to
subsection (a) that are owned by the Secretary (or for which the
Secretary is mortgagee in possession), the Secretary shall—
&quot;(A) to the greatest extent possible, maintain all such occupied projects in a decent, safe, and sanitary condition;
&quot;(B) to the greatest extent possible, maintain full occupancy
in all such projects; and
&quot;(C) maintain all such projects for purposes of providing
rental or cooperative housing for the longest feasible period.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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104 STAT. 2603
conservation measures had not been implemented.
Upon the date of any such certification by the Secretary of Energy, all allowances which, but for this
paragraph, would have been allocated under subparagraph (A) before such date, shall be allocated to the
electric utility. This clause is not a requirement for
qualified renewable energy.
&quot;(v) Such utility or any subsidiary of the utility's
holding company owns or operates at least one eiffected
unit.
&quot;(C) PERIOD OF APPLICABILITY.— Allowances under this
subsection shall be allocated only with respect to kilowatt
hours of electric energy saved by qualified energy conservation mesisures or generated by qualified renewable energy
after January 1, 1992 and before the earlier of (i) December
31, 2000, or (ii) the date on which any electric utility steam
generating unit owned or operated by the electric utility to
which the allowances are allocated becomes subject to this
title (including those sources that elect to become affected
by this title, pursuant to section 410).
&quot;(D) DETERMINATION OF AVOIDED EMISSIONS. —
&quot;(i) APPLICATION.— In order to receive allowances
under this subsection, an electric utility shall make an
application which—
&quot;(I) designates the qualified energy conservation
measures implemented and the qualified renewable energy sources used for purposes of avoiding
emissions,
&quot;(II) calculates, in accordance with subparagraphs (F) and (G), the number of tons of emissions
avoided by reason of the implementation of such
measures or the use of such renewable energy
sources; and
&quot;(III) demonstrates that the requirements of
subparagraph (B) have been met.
Such application for allowances by a State-regulated
electric utility shall require approval by the State regulatory authority with jurisdiction over such electric
utility. The authority shall review the application for
accuracy and compliance with this subsection and the
rules under this subsection. Electric utilities whose
retail rates are not subject to the jurisdiction of a State
regulatory authority shall apply directly to the
Administrator for such approval.
&quot;(E) AVOIDED EMISSIONS FROM QUALIFIED ENERGY CON-
SERVATION MEASURES. —For the purposes of this subsection,
the emission tonnage deemed avoided by reason of the
implementation of qualified energy conservation measures
for any calendar year shall be a tonnage equal to the
product of multiplying—
&quot;(i) the kilowatt hours that would otherwise have
been supplied by the utility during such year in the
absence of such qualified energy conservation measures, by
&quot;(ii) 0.004,
and dividing by 2,000.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9klaxvhummpnl25qfml200cxqxd7heb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 104 Part 4.djvu/311</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1092583</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133341</id>
      <parentid>8509820</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:40:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
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      <text bytes="2825" sha1="plhlu05coosaaqq4ml68rzm2nmpzaoi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;PUBLIC LAW 101-549—NOV. 15, 1990
104 STAT. 2627
date of the enactment of the Clean Air Act Amendments of
1990);
&quot;(C) does not generate electric energy sold to any affiliate
(as defined in section 2(a)(ll) of the Public Utility Holding
Company Act of 1935) of the facility's owner or operator
unless the owner or operator of the facility demonstrates
that it cannot obtain allowances from the affiliate; and
&quot;(D) is a new unit required to hold allowances under this
title.
&quot;(3) The term 'required allowances' means the allowances
required to operate such unit for so much of the unit's useful
life as occurs after January 1, 2000.
&quot;(b) SPECIAL RESERVE OF ALLOWANCES.— Within 36 months after Regulations,
the date of the enactment of the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990,
the Administrator shall promulgate regulations establishing a Special Allowance Reserve containing allowances to be sold under this
section. For purposes of establishing the Special Allowance Reserve,
the Administrator shall withhold—
&quot;(1) 2.8 percent of the allocation of allowances for each year
from 1995 through 1999 inclusive; and
&quot;(2) 2.8 percent of the basic Phase II allowance allocation of
allowances for each year beginning in the year 2000
which would (but for this subsection) be issued for each affected unit
at an affected source. The Administrator shall record such withhold- Records,
ing for purposes of transferring the proceeds of the allowance sales
under this subsection. The allowances so withheld shall be deposited
in the Reserve under this section.
&quot; (c) DIRECT SALE AT $1,500 PER TON.—
&quot;(1) SUBACCOUNT FOR DIRECT SALES. — In accordance with regulations under this section, the Administrator shall establish a
Direct Sale Subaccount in the Special Allowance Reserve established under this section. The Direct Sale Subaccount shall
contain allowances in the amount of 50,000 tons per year for
each year beginning in the year 2000.
&quot;(2) SALES.— Allowances in the subaccount shall be offered for
direct sale to any person at the times and in the amounts
specified in table 1 at a price of $1,500 per allowance, adjusted
by the Consumer Price Index in the same manner as provided in
paragraph (3). Requests to purchase allowances from the Direct
Sale Subaccount established under paragraph (1) shall be approved in the order of receipt until no allowances remain in
such subaccount, except that an opportunity to purchase such
allowances shall be provided to the independent power producers referred to in this subsection before such allowances are
offered to any other person. Each applicant shall be required to
pay 50 percent of the total purchase price of the allowances
within 6 months after the approval of the request to purchase.
The remainder shall be paid on or before the transfer of the
allowances.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>plhlu05coosaaqq4ml68rzm2nmpzaoi</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 104 Part 5.djvu/767</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1094241</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133345</id>
      <parentid>8511453</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:41:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="3253" sha1="08figji515j4qhcsvl516e44da29h0n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;PUBLIC LAW 101-625—NOV. 28, 1990
104 STAT. 4089
production of new units, rehabilitation of old units, or acquisition of existing units;
(4) explain whether the cost of housing or the incentives to
develop, maintain, or improve affordable housing in the jurisdiction are affected by public policies, particularly by policies of
the jurisdiction, including tax policies affecting land and other
property, land use controls, zoning ordinances, building codes,
fees and charges, growth limits, and policies that affect the
return on residential investment, and describe the jurisdiction's
strategy to remove or ameliorate negative effects, if any, of such
policies;
(5) explain the institutional structure, including private industry, nonprofit organizations, and public institutions, through
which the jurisdiction will carry out its housing strategy, assessing the strengths and gaps in that delivery system and describing what the jurisdiction will do to overcome those gaps;
(6) indicate resources from private and non-Federal public
sources that are reasonably expected to be made available to
carry out the purposes of this Act, explaining how funds made
available will leverage those additional resources and identify-
ing, where the jurisdiction deems it appropriate, publicly owned
land or property located within the jurisdiction that may be
utilized to carry out the purposes of this Act;
(7) set forth the jurisdiction's plan for investment or other use
of housing funds made available under title II of this Act, the
United States Housing Act of 1937, the Housing and Community Development Act of 1974, and the Stewart B. McKinney
Homeless Assistance Act, during the ensuing year or such
longer period as the Secretary determines to be appropriate,
indicating the general priorities for allocating investment geographically within the jurisdiction and among different activities and housing needs;
(8) describe the means of cooperation and coordination among
the State and any units of general local government in the
development, submission, and implementation of their housing
strategies;
(9) in the case of a unit of local government, describe the
number of public housing units in the jurisdiction, the physical
condition of such units, the restoration and revitalization needs
of public housing projects within the jurisdiction, the public
housing agency's strategy for improving the msmagement and
operation of such public housing, and the public housing
agency's strategy for improving the living environment of low- and very-low-income families residing in public housing;
(10) in the case of a State, describe the strategy to coordinate
the Low-Income Tax Credit with development of housing,
including public housing, that is affordable to very low-income
and low-income families;
(11) describe the jurisdiction's activities to encourage public
housing residents to become more involved in management and
participate in homeownership;
(12) describe the standards and procedures according to which
the jurisdiction will monitor activities authorized under this Act
and ensure long-term compliance with the provisions of this
Act;
(13) include a certification that the jurisdiction will affirmatively further fair housing;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>08figji515j4qhcsvl516e44da29h0n</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 104 Part 6.djvu/608</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1095251</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133347</id>
      <parentid>8512356</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:41:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="2711" sha1="ru00pv46te2mskplo2pv4mbw3a4lruo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;104 STAT. 4998
PUBLIC LAW 101-649—NOV. 29, 1990
section 201(a) (other than paragraph (3) thereof) or who
were admitted or otherwise provided lawful permanent
resident status as an immediate relative or other alien
described in section 201(b)(2).
&quot; (B) IDENTIFICATION OF HIGH-ADMISSION AND LOW-ADMIS-
SION REGIONS AND HIGH-ADMISSION AND LOW-ADMISSION
STATES. — The Attorney General—
&quot; (i) shall identify—
&quot;(I) each region (each in this paragraph referred
to as a 'high-admission region') for which the total
of the numbers determined under subparagraph
(A) for states in the region is greater than Ve of the
total of all such numbers, and
&quot;(II) each other region (each in this paragraph
referred to as a 'low-admission region'); and
&quot;(ii) shall identify—
&quot;(I) each foreign state for which the number
I
determined under subparagraph (A) is greater
than 50,000 (each such state in this paragraph
referred to as a 'high-admission state'), and
&quot;(II) each other foreign state (each such state in
this paragraph referred to as a 'low-admission
state').
&quot; (C) DETERMINATION OF PERCENTAGE OF WORLDWIDE
IMMIGRATION ATTRIBUTABLE TO HIGH-ADMISSION REGIONS.—
The Attorney General shall determine the percentage of
the total of the numbers determined under subparagraph
(A) that are numbers for foreign states in high-admission
regions.
&quot; (D) DETERMINATION OF REGIONAL POPULATIONS EXCLUD-
ING HIGH-ADMISSION STATES AND RATIOS OF POPULATIONS OF
REGIONS WITHIN LOW-ADMISSION REGIONS AND HIGH-ADMIS-
SION REGIONS. —The Attorney General shall determine—
&quot;(i) based on available estimates for each region, the
total population of each region not including the population of any high-admission state;
&quot;(ii) for each low-admission region, the ratio of the
population of the region determined under clause (i) to
the total of the populations determined under such
clause for all the low-admission regions; and
&quot;(iii) for each high-admission region, the ratio of the
population of the region determined under clause (i) to
the total of the populations determined under such
clause for all the high-admission regions.
&quot;(E) DISTRIBUTION OF VISAS.—
&quot;(i) No VISAS FOR NATIVES OF HIGH-ADMISSION
STATES. —The percentage of visas made available under
this paragraph to natives of a high-admission state is 0.
&quot;(ii) FOR LOW-ADMISSION STATES IN LOW-ADMISSION RE-
GIONS.—Subject to clauses (iv) and (v), the percentage of
visas made available under this paragraph to natives
(other than natives of a high-admission state) in a low-admission region is the product of—
&quot;(I) the percentage determined under subparagraph (C), and
&quot;(II) the population ratio for that region determined under subparagraph (D)(ii).&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ru00pv46te2mskplo2pv4mbw3a4lruo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 105 Part 3.djvu/368</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1098252</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133348</id>
      <parentid>8515103</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:41:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="2649" sha1="12amwg5n66joyvwytx55k82jo6jvnp8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;105 STAT. 2252
PUBLIC LAW 102-242 —DEC. 19, 1991
Discrimination.
Disadvantaged.
Discrimination.
Disadvantaged.
(d) CONTENTS.— The information required under subsection (a)
may include information regarding the following:
(1) The total number and aggregate dollar amount of commercial loans and commercial mortgage loans to small businesses.
(2) Charge-offs, interest, and interest fee income on commercial loans and commercial mortgage loans to small businesses.
(3) Agricultural loans to small farms.
SEC. 123. FDIC PROPERTY DISPOSITION STANDARDS.
(a) IN GENERAL.— Section ll(d)(13) of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act (12 U.S.C. 1821(d)(13)) is amended by adding at the end the
following new subparagraph:
&quot;(E) DISPOSITION OF ASSETS. —In exercising any right,
power, privilege, or authority as conservator or receiver in
connection with any sale or disposition of assets of any
insured depository institution for which the Corporation
has been appointed conservator or receiver, including any
sale or disposition of assets acquired by the Corporation
under section 13(d)(1), the Corporation shall conduct its
operations in a manner which—
&quot;(i) maximizes the net present value return from the
sale or disposition of such assets;
&quot;(ii) minimizes the amount of any loss realized in the
resolution of cases;
&quot;(iii) ensures adequate competition and fair and
consistent treatment of offerors;
&quot;(iv) prohibits discrimination on the basis of race,
sex, or ethnic groups in the solicitation and consideration of offers; and
&quot;(v) maximizes the preservation of the availability
and affordability of residential real property for low- and moderate-income individuals.&quot;.
(b) CORPORATE CAPACITY. — Section 13(d)(3) of the Federal Deposit
Insurance Act (12 U.S.C. 1823(d)(3)) is amended by adding at the end
the following new subparagraph:
&quot;(D) DISPOSITION OF ASSETS. —In exercising any right,
power, privilege, or authority described in subparagraph (A)
regarding the sale or disposition of assets sold to the Corporation pursuant to paragraph (1), the Corporation shall
conduct its operations in a manner which—
&quot;(i) maximizes the net present value return from the
sale or disposition of such assets;
&quot;(ii) minimizes the amount of any loss realized in the
resolution of cases;
&quot;(iii) ensures adequate competition and fair and
consistent treatment of offerors;
&quot;(iv) prohibits discrimination on the basis of race,
sex, or ethnic groups in the solicitation and consideration of offers; and
&quot;(v) maximizes the preservation of the availability
and affordability of residential real property for low- and moderate-income individuals.&quot;.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>12amwg5n66joyvwytx55k82jo6jvnp8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 106 Part 2.djvu/711</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1100805</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133349</id>
      <parentid>8517388</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:41:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
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      <text bytes="3496" sha1="0g1dcfnjx6zakwp5j73p481o6pqx4ia" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;PUBLIC LAW 102-389 —OCT. 6, 1992
106 STAT. 1591
(Contract No. 4511 CDBG ED 89) for the purpose of providing
a loan through the Miami Area Economic Development Services,
Inc., for Sac and Fox Industries to retain and create jobs for low- and moderate-income persons. Notwithstanding any other provision
of law or other Department of Housing and Urban Development
regulations and requirements, $490,700 of funds appropriated for
community development block grants and allocated to the State
of Oklahoma or other funds available to the Secretary of Housing
and Urban Development shall be used to close out said a^eement.
Furthermore, the Miami Area Economic Development Services, Inc.,
the City of Commerce, Oklahoma, and the Oklahoma Department
of Commerce are relieved of all liability to the government for
the outstanding balance, any amount of accrued interest, and cuiy
other fees and charges payable in connection with this transaction.
The provisions of title I, section 104(g)(2) of the Housing and
Urban Development Act of 1974, as amended, are hereby waived
for the following urban development action grant projects in the
City of Youngstown, Ohio:
(1) H. L. Libby parking deck—project #: B-87-AA-39 -
0319;
(2) The Bitonte Medical Center—project #: B-86-AA -39 -
0321; and
(3) The Erie Terminal Development Office Complex—
project #: B-87 -AA -39 -0329.
During fiscal year 1993, notwithstanding any other provision
of law, the number of individuals employed by the Department
of Housing and Urban Development in other than &quot;career appointee&quot;
positions in the Senior Executive Service shall not exceed 15.
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of
Housing and Urban Development shall cancel the indebtedness
of the Sunbright Utility District in Morgan County, Tennessee,
relating to loan number TENN-PFL-43, and the Administrator
of the Economic Development Administration shall cemcel the
indebtedness of the Simbright Utility District in Morgan County,
Tennessee, relating to loans numbered 040100-342-1 and 04010()-
342-2. The Simbright Utility District in Morgan County, Tennessee,
is relieved of all liability to the Government for the outstanding
principal balance on such loans, for the amount of accrued interest
on such loans, and for any other fees and charges payable in
connection with such loans.
Section 213(e) of the Housing and Community Development
Act of 1974, as amended (42 U.S.C. 1439(e)), is amended by striking
&quot;the Park Central New Community Project or in adjacent areas
that are recognized by the imit of general local government in
which such Project is located as being included within the Park
Central New Town in Town Project^ and inserting &quot;Jefferson
County, Texas&quot;; and, notwithstanding the provisions of section
213(c) of such Act, of the budget authority set aside in section
213(e) of such Act, the Secretary shall entor into annual contributions contracts under section 8(b) of the United Stotes Housing
Act of 1937 with the Housing Authority of the City of Galveston,
Galveston, Texas, for 18 units, with the Housing Authority for
the City of Rockwall, Rockwall, Texas, for 36 umts, and for the
balance of such budget authority, with the Port Arthur Housing
Authority, Port Arthur, Texas.
The first sentence of section 203(b)(2) of the National Housing
Act (12 U.S.C. 1709(b)(2)) is amended to read as follows: &quot;Involve
Government
employees.
Labor.
Sunbright
Utility District.
Tennessee.
Loans.
Contracts.
Texas.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0g1dcfnjx6zakwp5j73p481o6pqx4ia</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 106 Part 5.djvu/296</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1103639</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133350</id>
      <parentid>8519914</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:41:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="2723" sha1="lc6amql39rsmog7tuk28wateqcka2hg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;106 STAT. 3934
PUBLIC LAW 102-550—OCT. 28, 1992
made as a condition of obtaining access to such public improvements, unless—
(A) funds received under this section are used to pay
the proportion of such fee or assessment that relates to
the capital costs of such public improvements that are
financed from revenue sources other than under this section; or
(B) for purposes of assessing any amount against properties owned and occupied by persons of moderate income,
the grantee certifies to the Secretary that it lacks sufficient
funds received under this section to comply with the
requirements of subparagraph (A); and
(5) the unit of general local government will comply with
the other provisions of this title and with other applicable
laws,
(d) A^^^DISPLACEME^^^ AND RELOCATION PLAN. —
(1) CONTENTS.—The residential antidisplacement and
relocation assistence plan referred to in subsection (b)(3) shall,
in connection with activities assisted under this section—
(A) provide that, in the event of such displacement—
(i) governmentel agencies or private developers
shall provide, within the same community, comparable
replacement dwellings for the same number of occupants as could have been housed in the occupied and
vacant occupiable low- and moderate-income dwelling
imits demolished or converted to a use other than
for housing for low- and moderate-income persons, and
provide that such replacement housing may include
existing housing assisted with project based assistance
provided under section 8 of the United States Housing
Act of 1937;
(ii) such comparable replacement dwellings shall
be designed to remain affordable to persons of low- and moderate-income for 10 years from the time of
initial occupancy;
(iii) relocation benefits shall be provided for all
low- or moderate-income persons who occupied housing
demolished or converted to a use other than for lowor moderate-income housing, including reimbursement
for actual and reasonable moving expenses, security
deposits, credit checks, and other moving-related
expenses, including any interim living costs; and in
the case of displaced persons of low- and moderateincome, provide either—
(I) compensation sufficient to ensure that, for
a 5-year period, the displaced families shall not
bear, after relocation, a ratio of shelter coste to
income that exceeds 30 percent; or
(II) if elected by a family, a lump-sum payment
equal to the capitelized value of the benefits available under subclause (I) to permit the household
to secure participation in a housing cooperative
or mutual housing association; and
(iv) persons displaced shall be relocated into comparable replacement housing that is—
(I) decent, safe, and sanitery;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lc6amql39rsmog7tuk28wateqcka2hg</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 106 Part 5.djvu/297</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1103640</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133352</id>
      <parentid>8519915</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:41:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="2944" sha1="2e3m6j9801is65p64fdpj2s1arocpzn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;PUBLIC LAW 102-550 —OCT. 28, 1992
106 STAT. 3935
(II) adequate in size to accommodate the occupants;
(III) functionally equivalent; and
(IV) in an area not subject to unreasonably
adverse environmental conditions; and
(B) provide that persons displaced shall have the right
to elect, as an alternative to the benefits under this subsection, to receive benefits under the Uniform Relocation
Assistance and Real Property Acquisition Policies Act of
1970 if such persons determine mat it is in their best
interest to do so; and
(C) provide that where a claim for assistance under
subparagraph (A)(iv) is denied by the unit of general local
government, the claimant may appeal to the Secretary,
and that the decision of the Secretary shall be final unless
a court determines the decision was arbitrary and capricious.
(2) EXCEPTION. — Paragraphs (IXAXi) and (IXAXii) shall
not apply in any case in which the Secretary finds, on the
basis of objective data, that there is available in the area
an adequate supply of habitable affordable housing for low- and moderate-income persons. A determination under this paragraph shall be final and nonreviewable.
(e) ELIGIBLE ACTIVITIES. — Activities assisted with amounts provided under this section may include only the following activities:
(1) ACQUISITION OF REAL PROPERTY.— The acquisition of
real property (including air rights, water rights, and other
interests therein) that is located within the new town demonstration area and is—
(A) blighted, deteriorated, imdeveloped, or inappropriately developed from the standpoint of sound community
development and growth;
(B) appropriate for rehabilitation activities;
(C) appropriate for the preservation or restoration of
historic sites, the beautification of urban land, the conservation of open spaces, natural resources, and scenic
areas, the provision of recreational opportunities, or the
guidance of urban development;
(D) to be used for the provision of public works, facilities, and improvements eligible for assistance under this
section;
(E) to be used as a facility for coordinating and providing activities and services for high risk youth (as such
term is defined in section 509A of the Public Health Service
Act); or
(F) to be used for other public purposes.
(2) CONSTRUCTION OF PUBLIC WORKS AND FACILITIES. —The
acquisition, construction, rehabilitation, or installation of public
works or public facilities within the new town demonstration
area, including buildings for the general conduct of government
and facilities for coordinating ana providing activities and services for high risk youth (as such term is defined in section
509A of the Public Health Service Act).
(3) CLEARANCE AND REHABILITATION OF BUILDINGS.—The
clearance, removal, and rehabilitation of buildings and improvements located within the new town demonstration area, including interim assistance, assistance for facilities for coordinating&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2e3m6j9801is65p64fdpj2s1arocpzn</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 108 Part 1.djvu/476</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1109095</id>
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      <text bytes="2949" sha1="qp8a8iid40t5hjpb53kwubpdfk4aywy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;108 STAT. 450
PUBLIC LAW 103-236—APR. 30, 1994
(i) assistance haviiu^ a value of less than $3,000,000
in the case of nonreimburseable assistance or less than
$14,000,000 in the case of reimburseable assistance, or
(ii) assistance provided under the emergency drawdown
authority of sections 506(a)(l) and 552(c)(2) of the Foreign
Assistance Act of 1961 (22 U.S.C. 2318(a)(l) and
2348a(c)(2)).
(B) The President shall submit quarterly reports to the
designated congressional committees on all £U(sistance provided
by the United States during the preceding calendar quarter
to the United Nations to support peacekeeping operations. Each
report shall describe the assistance provided for each such
operation, listed by categoiy of assistance. The report for the
fourth calendar quarter of each year shall be submitted as
part of the annual report reauired by section 4(d) of the United
Nations Participation Act or 1945 (as added by subsection (b)
of this section) and shall include cumulative information for
the preceding calendar year.
(b) ANNUAL REPORTS.— Section 4 of the United Nations Participation Act of 1945 (22 U.S.C. 287b), SB amended b^ the preceding
section of this title, is further amended by adding at the end
the following:
&quot;(d) ANNUAL REPORT.— In addition to the report required by
subsection (a), the President, at the time of submission of the
annual budget request to the Congress, shall submit to the designated congressional committees a report that includes the following:
&quot;(1) COSTS OF PEACEKEEPING OPERATIONS. —
&quot;(A) In accordance with section 407(a)(5)(B) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1994 and
1995, a description of all assistance provided by the United
States to the United Nations to support peacekeeping operations during the previous calendar quarter and during
the previous year.
&quot;(B) With respect to United Nations peacekeeping
operations—
&quot;(i) the aggregate cost of all United Nations peacekeeping operations for the priorfiscalyear;
&quot;(ii) the costs of each United Nations peacekeeping
operation for the priorfiscalyear; and
&quot;(iii) the amount of United States contributions
(both assessed and voluntary) to United Nations peacekeeping operations on an operation-by -operation basis
for the priorfiscalyear.
&quot;(C) With respect to other international peacekeeping
operations in which the United States participates—
&quot;(i) the aggregate cost of all such operations for
the priorfiscalyear;
&quot;(ii) the costs of each such operation for the prior
fiscal ^ear; and
&quot;(iii) the amount of United States contributions
(both assessed and volimtary) to such operations on
an operation-by -operation basis for the priorfiscalyear.
&quot;(D) In the case of the first 2 reports submitted pursuant to this subsection, a projection of all United States
costs for United Nations peacekeeping operations diudng
each of the next 2 fiscal years, including assessed and
voluntary contributions.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 112 Part 4.djvu/456</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1130611</id>
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      <text bytes="3146" sha1="f8h4ayhn1fr7n4na1fxr1er4mvylpkf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;112 STAT. 2681-427 PUBLIC LAW 105-277—OCT. 21, 1998
Act or subtitle D of title I of the Workforce Investment Act
of 1998&quot;.
(36) DOMESTIC VOLUNTEER SERVICE ACT OF 1973.—
(A) SECTION 103.— The second sentence of section
103(d) of the Domestic Volunteer Service Act of 1973 (42
U.S.C. 4953(d)) is amended to read as follows: &quot;Whenever
feasible, such efforts shall be coordinated with an appropriate private industry council established under the Job
Training Partnership Act or local workforce investment
board established under section 117 of the Workforce
Investment Act of 1998.&quot;.
(B) SECTION 109. —Subsections (c)(2) and (d)(2) of section 109 of the Domestic Volunteer Service Act of 1973
(42 U.S.C. 4959) is amended by striking &quot;administrative
entities designated to administer job training plans under
the Job Training Partnership Act&quot; and inserting &quot;administrative entities designated to administer job training plans
under the Job Training Partnership Act and eligible providers of employment and training activities under subtitle
B of title I of the Workforce Investment Act of 1998&quot;.
(37) AGE DISCRIMINATION ACT OF 1975.— Section 304(c)(1)
of the Age Discrimination Act of 1975 (42 U.S.C. 6103(c)(1))
is amended by striking &quot;Except with&quot; and all that follows
through &quot;nothing&quot; and inserting &quot;Nothing&quot;.
(38) ENERGY CONSERVATION AND PRODUCTION ACT.— Section
414(b)(3) of the Energy Conservation and Production Act (42
U.S.C. 6864(b)(3)) is amended by striking &quot;the Comprehensive
Emplo3maent and Training Act of 1973&quot; and inserting &quot;the
Job Training Partnership Act or title I of the Workforce Investment Act of 1998&quot;.
(39) NATIONAL ENERGY CONSERVATION POLICY ACT. —Section
233 of the National Energy Conservation Policy Act (42 U.S.C.
6873) is amended, in the matter preceding paragraph (1), by
striking &quot;the Comprehensive Employment and Training Act
of 1973&quot; and inserting &quot;the Job Training Partnership Act or
title I of the Workforce Investment Act of 1998&quot;.
(40) COMMUNITY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ACT OF 1981.—
Section 617(a)(3) of the Community Economic Development Act
of 1981 (42 U.S.C. 9806(a)(3)) is amended by striking &quot;activities
such as those described in the Comprehensive Employment
and Training Act&quot; and inserting &quot;activities such as the activities
described in the Job Training Partnership Act or title I of
the Workforce Investment Act of 1998&quot;.
(41) STEWART B. MCKINNEY HOMELESS ASSISTANCE ACT.—
Section 103(b)(2) of the Stewart B. McKinney Homeless Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 11302(b)(2)) is amended by striking &quot;the
Job Training Partnership Act&quot; and inserting &quot;the Job Training
Partnership Act or title I of the Workforce Investment Act
of 1998&quot;.
(42) NATIONAL AND COMMUNITY SERVICE ACT OF 1990.—
(A) SECTION 177.—Section 177(d) of the National and
Community Service Act of 1990 (42 U.S.C. 12637(d)) is
amended to read as follows:
&quot;(d) TREATMENT OF BENEFITS. —Allowances, earnings, and pay-
ments to individuals participating in programs that receive assistance under this title shall not be considered to be income for
the purposes of determining eligibility for and the amount of income&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 115 Part 2.djvu/648</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1143227</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133356</id>
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      <text bytes="2918" sha1="p44rk8uh5ojc1mhwlgpq6znwqrsbgnn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TarmstroBot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;115 STAT. 1632
PUBLIC LAW 107-110—JAN. 8, 2002
especially parents of limited English proficient and
immigrant children; and
&quot;(v) provide training on how to understand and
use data and assessments to improve classroom practice and student learning.
&quot;(4) Developing and implementing initiatives to promote
retention of highly qualified teachers and principals, particularly within elementary schools and secondary schools with
a high percentage of low-achieving students, including programs that provide—
&quot;(A) teacher mentoring from exemplary teachers, principals, or superintendents;
&quot;(B) induction and support for teachers and principals
during their first 3 years of employment as teachers or
principals, respectively;
&quot;(C) incentives, including financial incentives, to retain
teachers who have a record of success in helping low-achieving students improve their academic achievement;
or
&quot;(D) incentives, including financial incentives, to principals who have a record of improving the academic
achievement of all students, but particularly students from
economically disadvantaged families, students from racial
and ethnic minority groups, and students with disabilities.
&quot;(5) Carrying out programs and activities that are designed
to improve the quality of the teacher force, such as—
&quot;(A) innovative professional development programs
(which may be provided • through partnerships including
institutions of higher education), including programs that
train teachers and principals to integrate technology into
curricula and instruction to improve teaching, learning,
and technology literacy, are consistent with the requirements of section 9101, and are coordinated with activities
carried out under part D;
&quot;(B) development and use of proven, cost-effective
strategies for the implementation of professional development activities, such as through the use of technology
and distance learning;
&quot;(C) tenure reform;
&quot;(D) merit pay programs; and
&quot;(E) testing of elementary school and secondary school
teachers in the academic subjects that the teachers teach.
&quot;(6) Carrying out professional development activities
designed to improve the quality of principals and superintendents, including the development and support of academies to
help talented aspiring or current principals and superintendents become outstanding managers and educational leaders.
&quot;(7) Hiring highly qualified teachers, including teachers
who become highly qualified through State and local alternative
routes to certification, and special education teachers, in order
to reduce class size, particularly in the early grades.
&quot;(8) Carrying out teacher advancement initiatives that promote professional growth and emphasize multiple career paths
(such as paths to becoming a career teacher, mentor teacher,
or exemplary teacher) and pay differentiation.
&quot;(10) Carrying out programs and activities related to exemplary teachers.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>The American Cyclopædia (1879)/Volume VII: Evesham - Glascock</title>
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 |previous = Volume VI: Dempster - Everett
 |current = Volume VII
 |next = Volume VIII: Glasgow - Hortense
 |other_projects = the [[Index:The American Cyclopædia (1879) Volume VII.djvu|scan index]]
 |column_1 = E - Fi
 |column_2 = Fl - Fo
 |column_3 = Fr - Ga
 |column_4 = Ge - Gi
 |defaultsort      = American Cyclopædia (1879), The/Volume 07
}}
|valign=&quot;top&quot;|
*[[../Evolution/]]
*[[../Exeter (New Hampshire)/]]


*[[../Falconer, Hugh/]]
*[[../Falconer, William/]]


*[[../Fandango/]]
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*[[../Fannin/]]
*[[../Fannin, James W./]]
*[[../Fedchenko, Alexei/]]
*[[../Fesca/]]
*[[../Fillmore, Millard/]]
*[[../Finds/]]
*[[../Fingal's Cave/]]
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*[[../Finland/]]
*[[../Finland, Gulf of/]]
*[[../Finlay, George/]]
*[[../Finlay, John/]]
*[[../Finlayson, George/]]
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*[[../Finley, Samuel/]]
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*[[../Finns/]]
*[[../Finsteraarhorn/]]
*[[../Fiorelli, Giuseppe/]]
*[[../Fiorentino, Pier-Angelo/]]
*[[../Fisher/]]
*[[../Fisher, Alvan/]]
*[[../Fisher, George Park/]]
*[[../Fisher, John/]]
*[[../Fisheries/]]
*[[../Fitchburg/]]
*[[../Fitch, John/]]
|valign=&quot;top&quot;|
*[[../Fliedner, Theodor/]]
*[[../Florian, Saint/]]
*[[../Florida/]]
*[[../Follen, August/]]
*[[../Follen, Charles/]]
*[[../Fordham/]]
*[[../Fort Donelson and Fort Henry|Fort Donelson ...]]
*[[../Fort Jackson/]]
*[[../Fort Madison/]]
*[[../Fort Royal/]]
*[[../Fort St. David/]]
*[[../Fort Scott/]]
*[[../Fort Smith/]]
*[[../Fort Sumter/]]
*[[../Fortuna/]]
*[[../Fortunate Islands/]]
*[[../Fortunatus/]]
*[[../Fortune, Robert/]]
*[[../Fort Wayne/]]
*[[../Fossil Footprints/]]
*[[../Fox/]]
*[[../Fox, Charles James/]]
*[[../Fox, George/]]
|valign=&quot;top&quot;|
*[[../Francke, August Hermann/]]
*[[../François, Jean Charles/]]
*[[../Francolin/]]
*[[../Franconia/]]
*[[../Franconia Notch/]]
*[[../Franeker/]]
*[[../Frank/]]
*[[../Frankel, Zacharias/]]
*[[../Frankenhausen/]]
*[[../Frankenstein/]]
*[[../Frankfort/]]
*[[../Frankfort-on-the-Main/]]
*[[../Frankfort-on-the-Oder/]]
*[[../Freiligrath, Ferdinand/]]
*[[../Fugger/]]
*[[../Fugitive/]]
*[[../Fugue/]]
*[[../Führich, Joseph von/]]
*[[../Fulda/]]
*[[../Galilee/]]
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*[[../Galileo Galilei/]]
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*[[../Gaskell, Elizabeth Cleghorn/]]
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*[[../Georgetown (port or town)/]]
*[[../Georgia (American Union)/]]
*[[../Georgia (Russian Transcaucasia)/]]
*[[../German Catholics/]]
*[[../Germanic Races and Languages/]]
*[[../Germanicus Cæsar/]]
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*[[../Germany, Wines of/]]
*[[../Germersheim/]]
*[[../Gerok, Karl/]]
*[[../Gérôme, Jean Léon/]]
*[[../Gerona/]]
*[[../Gerry, Elbridge/]]
*[[../Gers/]]
*[[../Gettysburg/]]
*[[../Gettysburg, Battle of/]]
*[[../Geysers/]]
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*[[../Gift/]]
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|}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Author:Helen Stratton</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
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 | firstname    = Helen
 | lastname     = Stratton
 | last_initial = St
 | description  = illustrator
 }}

==Works==

* ''[[The fairy tales of Hans Christian Andersen]]'' Stratton (ill.) Lippincott, 1899. {{smaller|([[Index:The fairy tales of Hans Christian Andersen (c1899).djvu|page scan index]])}}
* ''[[The Lily of Life]]'' by [[Author:Marie of Romania|Marie of Romania]] (1912)
* ''[[A Book of Myths]]'' Jean Lang; Stratton (ill.) New York : G. P. Putnam's sons. 1915

{{PD/US|1961}}
{{authority control}}

[[Category:Illustrators as authors]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 46.djvu/12</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1192714</id>
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      <text bytes="5365" sha1="5gbcp3cxif7mizy0vo473hipdx1htab" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Charles Matthews&quot; /&gt;{{running header|Pocock|6|Pocock}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Pocock, Nicholas&quot; /&gt;he subsequently refused the presidency; and though he withdrew on the temporary dissolution of the society in 1812, he continued to contribute to its exhibitions till 1817. He exhibited altogether 320 works, 182 at the Water-colour Society, 113 at the Royal Academy, and twenty-five at the British Institution. In 1817 he left London for 36 St. James's Parade, Bath, and he died at Maidenhead, Berkshire, on 19 March 1821, at the age of eighty.

Pocock married Ann, daughter of John Evans of Bristol. His sons Isaac [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] and William Innes [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] are noticed separately.

Though Pocock earned his reputation mainly by his pictures of naval engagements (for which the wars of his time supplied ample material) and other sea pieces, he also painted landscapes in oil and water-colour. As an artist he had taste and skill, but his large naval pictures, though accurate and careful, are wanting in spirit, and in water-colours he did not get much beyond the ‘tinted’ drawings of the earlier draughtsmen.

There are two of his sea-fights at Hampton Court, and four pictures by him at Greenwich Hospital, including the ‘Repulse of the French under De Grasse by Sir Samuel Hood's Fleet at St. Kitts in January 1782.’ The Bristol Society of Merchants possess a picture of the defeat of the same French admiral in the West Indies, 12 April 1782. This was engraved in line by Francis Chesham, and published 1 March 1784, the society subscribing ten guineas towards the expense. Many others of his marine subjects have been engraved.

Four of his water-colours, two dated 1790 and one 1795, are at the South Kensington Museum. Three of these are of Welsh scenery. Other drawings by him are in the British Museum and the Whitworth Institute at Manchester. He illustrated [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]] ‘[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]],’ 1804, and Clarke and M'Arthur's ‘Life of Napoleon,’ 1809. The engravings (eight in the former and six in the latter) are by James Fittler.

A portrait of Nicholas Pocock by his eldest son Isaac [q.&amp;nbsp;v.] was exhibited at the Royal Academy in 1811, and there is a caricature of him in A. E. Chalon's drawing of ‘Artists in the British Institution’ (see ''Portfolio'', November 1884, p. 219).

&lt;small&gt;[Redgrave's Dict.; Bryan's Dict. (Graves and Armstrong); Owen's Two Centuries of Ceramic Art at Bristol; Roget's ‘Old’ Water-colour Society; Notes and Queries, 4th ser. xi. 331, and 8th ser. iv. 108, 197, and 291; Leslie and Taylor's Life of Sir Joshua Reynolds.]&lt;/small&gt;{{DNB CM}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Pocock, Nicholas&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Pocock, Robert&quot; /&gt;'''POCOCK''', ROBERT (1760–1830), printer and antiquary, born at Gravesend, Kent, on 21 Feb. 1760, was the second son of John Pocock (1720–1772), grocer. He was educated at the free school, and, after a short experience of his father's business, established himself as a printer in his native town. He married in 1779 his first wife, Ann Stillard (d. 1791), by whom he had three children. In 1786 he founded the first circulating library and printing-office at Gravesend ({{sc|Pocock}}, ''Chronology'', 1790, p. 14). His first literary productions were some children's books. In 1792 he married his second wife, a daughter of John Hinde (''d''. 1818), who bore him seven children. He published an excellent history of Gravesend (1797), as well as other contributions to the topographical and family history of Kent. He also wrote a history of Dartford, and some other works, which were never printed.

Pocock was a man of great versatility but imperfect business capacity, and combined the occupations of bookseller, printer, publisher, naturalist, botanist, and local antiquary. He was proud of his collections (see ''Journals'' ap. {{sc|Arnold}}), but was obliged occasionally to sell specimens. His latter years were passed in comparative poverty. He died on 26 Oct. 1830, and was buried at Wilmington.

Pocock's chief publications were: 1. ‘Pocock's Child's First Book, or Reading made easy,’ n.d., and ‘Child's Second Book,’ n.d. (the two were bound up and sold as ‘Pocock's Spelling Book).’ 2. ‘A Chronology of the most Remarkable Events that have occurred in the Parishes of Gravesend, Milton, and Denton, in Kent,’ Gravesend, 1790, 8vo. 3. ‘The History of the Incorporated Town and Parishes of Gravesend and Milton in Kent,’ Gravesend, 1797, 4to, plates. 4. ‘Kentish Fragments,’ Gravesend, 1802, 8vo. 5. ‘Memoirs of the Family of Tufton, Earls of Thanet,’ Gravesend, 1800, 8vo. 6. ‘Pocock's Gravesend Water Companion, describing all the Towns, Churches, Villages, Parishes, and Gentlemen's Seats, as seen from the Thames between London Bridge and Gravesend,’ Gravesend, 1802, sm. 8vo. 7. ‘Pocock's Margate Water Companion,’ Gravesend, 1802, sm. 8vo. (No. 6 continued to Margate). 8. ‘Pocock's Everlasting Songster, containing a Selection of the most approved Songs,’ Gravesend, 1804, sm. 8vo. 9. ‘Pocock's Sea Captains' Assistant, or Fresh Intelligence for Salt-water Sailors,’ Gravesend, n.d. [1802], sm. 8vo. 10. ‘God's Wonders in the Great Deep,’ n.d. 11. ‘The Antiquities of Rochester Cathedral,’ n.d. 12. ‘Memoirs of the Families of Sir&lt;section end=&quot;Pocock, Robert&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dictionary of National Biography. Sup. Vol I (1901).djvu/254</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="5420" sha1="hrk4p95otzagq78eoc3iaxtoth25fd8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{RunningHeader|Beverley|192|Beverley}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Best, William Thomas&quot; /&gt;ably painstaking and conscientious (''Musical Herald'', October 1900, p. 293). He was deeply studied in Handel's music, and edited his concertos and large selections of airs from the operas and oratorios. A Handel-Album, which extended to twenty volumes, was originally intended to consist of selections from the lesser-known instrumental works arranged for the organ; it was afterwards taken from more varied sources — the operas especially. He arranged for organ some hundreds of excerpts from other great masters' vocal and instrumental works. Another of Best's editions was 'Cecilia' (1883), a collection, in fifty-six parts, of original organ pieces by modern composers of various countries; it included his own sonata in D. minor, a 'Christmas Pastorale,' a set of twelve preludes on English psalm-tunes, a concert-fugue, a scherzo, and several other pieces of his own composition. 'The Art of Organ-Playing' (1869) is a very complete and thoroughly practical instruction book, ranging from the rudiments of execution to the highest proficiency. At the bicentenary of Bach's birth in 1885 Best began an edition of Bach's organ works, which he almost completed before he died. 

Best was somewhat eccentric and in the main a recluse. He associated little with other musicians. He would not join the Royal College of Organists, and refused to play on any organ whose pedal-keyboard had been constructed on the plan recommended by that college. For many years he refused to let any other organist play on his own organ. He kept the tuner in attendance at his recitals in St. George's Hall, and would leave his seat in the middle of a performance to expostulate with him; on one occasion he informed the audience that the tuner received a princely salary and neglected his work. He would indulge his fancies to the full in brilliant extemporisations when a church organist, but his recitals in St. George's Hall were invariably restrained and classical. 
{{smaller block|[Musical Herald, January 1890 and June 1897; Monthly Musical Record, July 1871; Musical Times, June and July 1897; Brown and Stratton's British Musical Biography, p. 44. All these accounts differ in details.]}}{{DNB HD}} 
&lt;section end=&quot;Best, William Thomas&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Beverley, William Roxby&quot; /&gt;'''BEVERLEY,''' WILLIAM ROXBY (1814?–1889), scene painter, born at Richmond, Surrey, apparently in 1814, was youngest son of William Roxby (1765–1842), a well-known actor-manager, who, on taking to the boards, had added to his name the suffix of Beverley, from the old capital of the east riding of Yorkshire. The family consisted of four sons and a daughter, all of whom were identified with the stage—some under the name of Beverley and others under that of Roxby; of these Henry Roxby Beverley and Robert Roxby are noticed separately. Beverley at an early age developed a remarkable aptitude for drawing, and quickly turned his attention to scene painting. Under his father's management of the Theatre Royal, Manchester, in 1830, he painted a striking scene of the ‘Island of Mist’ for the dramatic romance of ‘The Frozen Hand.’ When in 1831 his father and his brothers Samuel and Robert Roxby [q. v.] took over the control of the Durham circuit, comprising Scarborough, Stockton, Durham, Sunderland, and North and South Shields, Beverley followed their fortunes, and for a few seasons played heavy comedy besides painting scenery. His work at Sunderland created a very favourable impression, although one of his predecessors there had been Clarkson Stanfield. In December 1838 he was specially engaged to paint the major portion of the scenery for the pantomime of ‘Number Nip’ at Edinburgh, his principal contribution being a moving diorama depicting scenes from {{DNB lkpl|Falconer, William (1732-1769)|Falconer's}} ‘[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]].’ On 16 Sept. 1839 his brother, Harry Beverley, assumed the control of the Victoria Theatre in London for a short time, and there he painted for the first time in the metropolis, executing the scenery for the pantomime of ‘Baron Munchausen.’

In December 1842 Beverley was engaged as principal artist by Knowles of the Theatre Royal, Manchester. In 1845 he executed a beautiful act drop for the new Theatre Royal, Manchester, which remained in use for a quarter of a century. At the same house in June 1846 some magnificent scenery from his brush was seen in the opera of ‘Acis and Galatea.’ A little earlier in the year he had been engaged by Maddox as principal artist at the Princess's, London. In July the scenery for the revival of Planché's ‘Sleeping Beauty’ was from his brush, as were the vividly imaginative backgrounds in the Christmas pantomime of ‘The Enchanted Beauties of the Golden Castle.’ In Easter 1847 he provided a beautiful setting, with some ingenious transformations, for the revival of ‘A Midsummer Night's Dream.’ While still continuing his association with the Princess's, Beverley proceeded to the Lyceum under the Vestris-Mathews ''régime'' (1847–55), where his scenery illustrated the extravaganzas of Planché Combining, as Planché said, ‘the pictorial talent of Stanfield with the mechanical ingenuity of [William] Bradwell [the mechanist],’ Beverley&lt;section end=&quot;Beverley, William Roxby&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dictionary of Artists of the English School (1878).djvu/357</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="5294" sha1="1pj4z7nyodm2p6dnlgu6kd2itzezgku" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh||PLA|POC|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of mezzo-tint, and drew many local buildings and objects. His drawings are done with the pen, slightly shaded in the foreground with Indian ink or bistre, minute and weak in manner, and chiefly date between 1673 and 1713, signed with his initials only. He etched some animals and insects which were published, and mezzo-tinted some portraits after Vandyck and Kneller. He tried an experimental porcelain manufactory, and some specimens of his work still exist. He resided some time in Dimsdale, Durham. Died at the Manor House, York, 1728.

PLACE, {{sc|George}}, ''miniature painter''. Was the son of a fashionable linen-draper in Dublin, and a student in the schools of the Irish Academy. He came to London and practised here with repute for several years, exhibiting at the Academy yearly from 1791 to 1797. Afterwards he went to Yorkshire, where he followed his profession about the end of the century.

PLAYFAIR, {{sc|William Henry}}, U.S.A., ''architect''. Was born in London, in July 1780, the son of an architect known in his day. He settled in Edinburgh, and in 1829 became one of the foundation members of the Royal Scottish Academy. His works in Edinburgh are in the classic style, in which he excelled. He was the architect of St. Stephen's Church, the Royal Institution, the National Gallery, the Free College, the Surgeons' Hall, and of Donaldson's Hospital, an edifice in the Tudor style, He died in Edinburgh, after a long illness, March 19, 1857.

PLAYFORD, {{longdash}}, ''miniature painter''. He practised in London with some ability in the latter half of the 18th century. Died in Lamb's Conduit Street, October 24, 1780.

PLAYTER, C. G., ''engraver''. He practised in the dot manner in the second half of the 18th century, and was employed on the Shakespeare Gallery. He engraved after Rigaud, 'A Scene from the Comedy of Errors;' after Hamilton, R. A., 'Lady Godiva,' and two subjects after Samuel Shelley.

PLIMER, {{sc|Andrew}}, ''miniature painter''. He was born at Bridgwater, and first exhibited at the Royal Academy, in 1786, some miniatures in ivory and on enamel, several of them in character. His finish was excellent, his portraits powerful, admirably drawn and expressed. He resided at Exeter, and continued to exhibit up to 1819. He died at Brighton, January 29, 1837, aged 74.

PLIMER, {{sc|Nathaniel}}, ''miniature painter''. Brother to the above. Born 1751, at Wellington, Shropshire. He exhibited miniatures at the Academy for the first time in 1787, and from that year was an occasional exhibitor. His works were carefully drawn and finished, but weak in execution, and not agreeable in colour. He died in 1822.

PLOTT, {{sc|John}}, ''miniature painter''. Born at Winchester in 1732. Commenced life as clerk to an attorney and accountant. Had a taste for painting, came to London in 1756, and was for awhile the pupil of R. Wilson, R.A., and was afterwards with Hone, R. A., whom he assisted in miniature, both enamel and water-colour. On leaving him he practised as a miniature painter, and in 1777 was living in London, and exhibited at the Academy, to which he continued an occasional contributor. Later he went to reside at Winchester, and was elected a member of the City Corporation. He painted a few portraits in oil. He had also acquired a knowledge of natural history, and executed some drawings of natural objects which had great merit. He commenced a history of 'Land Snails,' and had made some of the drawings, which showed great truth and beauty. He died at Stoke, Winchester, October 27, 1803, aged 71.

POCOCK, {{sc|Nicholas}}, ''marine painter''. Born about 1741. He was the son of a Bristol merchant of good family, and when a young man commanded a merchant vessel sailing from Bristol. He had a great taste for drawing and illustrated his journal with sketches which he met with on his voyages. Then cultivating art, and entirely self-taught, he left the sea to adopt art as his profession. He drew portraits, landscapes, and sea pieces, devoting himself chiefly to marine subjects. In 1780 Sir Joshua Reynolds wrote him an encouraging letter criticising his first picture in oil, which had arrived at the Academy too late for exhibition. Continuing to reside at Bristol, he was a constant exhibitor of marine subjects from 1782 to 1789, and at that time removed to London, and continued to exhibit up to 1815. He early attained distinction, and painted the chief naval battles of the war. One of these is in the gallery at Greenwich Hospital, and two others in the Hampton Court Galleries. These latter are large pictures, careful and literal, but lifeless, and wanting the interest and spirit of a battle. He was one of the original members of the Water-Colour society, and from 1805 to 1813, when he resigned his membership, a constant contributor of marines, with an occasional Welsh landscape, to the Society's exhibitions, and continued so up to 1817. He designed the illustrations for an edition of '[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]] [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]].' He died at Maidenhead, March 19, 1821, aged 80.

POCOCK, {{sc|Isaac}}, ''portrait and history painter''. Was born at Bristol, March 2, 1782, son of the above. He showed great ability for drawing when a child, and was,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Cousins's Short Biographical Dictionary of English Literature.djvu/145</title>
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      <text bytes="4289" sha1="5qbkrwtcquy1lqg4fdg4n9iwsroazco" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh|   | {{larger|Dictionary of English Literature}} |{{larger|133}}  }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;EvelynJ&quot; /&gt;his ''Diary''. He was all his life a staunch Royalist, and joined the King as a volunteer in 1642, but soon after repaired again to the Continent. After 1652 he was at home, settled at Sayes Court, near Deptford, where his gardens were famous. After the Restoration he was employed in various matters by the Government, but his lofty and pure character was constantly offended by the manners of the Court. In addition to his ''Diary'', kept up from 1624-1706, and which is full of interesting details of public and private events, he wrote upon such subjects as plantations, ''[[Sylva]]'' (1664), gardening, ''Elysium Britannicum'' ({{tooltip|unpub.|The remaining manuscript material of 'Elysium Britannicum' was published in 2001 by the University of Pennsylvania Press (ISBN: 9780812235364)}}), architecture, [[Fumifugium: or, the Inconveniencie of the Aer and Smoake of London|prevention of smoke in London]], engraving, ''[[Sculptura]]'' (1662), and he was one of the founders of the Royal Society, of which he was for a time sec. The dignity and purity of E'.s character stand forth in strong relief against the laxity of his times.

&lt;section end=&quot;EvelynJ&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;EwingJH&quot; /&gt;'''[[Author:Juliana Horatia Ewing|{{sc|Ewing, Mrs. Juliana Horatia}}]] ({{sc|Gatty}})''' (1842-1885).—Writer of children's stories, ''dau''. of {{SBDEL lkpl|Gatty, Mrs. Alfred|Mrs. Alfred Gatty|nosc=x}} (''q.v''.), also a writer for children. Among her tales, which have hardly been excelled in sympathetic insight into child-life, and still enjoy undiminished popularity, are: ''[[A Flat Iron for a Farthing]]'', ''[[Jackanapes]]'', ''[[Jan of the Windmill]]'', ''[[Mrs. Overtheway's Remembrances]]'', and ''[[The Story of a Short Life]]''.

&lt;section end=&quot;EwingJH&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FaberFW&quot; /&gt;'''[[Author:Frederick William Faber|{{sc|Faber, Frederick William}}]]''' (1814-1863).—Theologian and hymn-writer, was ''b''. at Calverley, Yorkshire, and ''ed''. at Harrow and Oxf., where he came under the influence of {{SBDEL lkpl|Newman, John Henry|Newman|nosc=x}}, whom he followed into the Church of Rome. He wrote various theological treatises, but has a place in literature for his hymns, which include ''[[The Pilgrims of the Night]]'', ''[[My God, How Wonderful Thou Art|My God how wonderful thou art]]'', and ''[[Sweet Saviour, bless us ere we go]]''.

&lt;section end=&quot;FaberFW&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FabyanR&quot; /&gt;'''[[Author:Robert Fabyan|{{sc|Fabyan, Robert}}]]''' (d. 1513).—Chronicler, was ''b''. in London, of which he became an Alderman and Sheriff. He kept a diary of notable events, which he expanded into a chronicle, which he entitled, ''The Concordance of Histories''. It covers the period from the arrival of Brutus in England to the death of Henry VII., and deals mainly with the affairs of London. It was not printed until 1515, when it appeared under the title of ''[[The New Chronicles of England and France]]''.

&lt;section end=&quot;FabyanR&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FairfaxE&quot; /&gt;'''[[Author:Edward Fairfax|{{sc|Fairfax, Edward}}]]''' (1580?-1635).—Translator, natural ''s''. of Sir Thomas F., lived at Fuystone, near Knaresborough, in peace and prosperity. His translation of [[Author:Torquato Tasso|Tasso's]] ''[[Jerusalem Delivered]]'', on which his fame is founded, is a masterpiece, one of the comparatively few translations which in themselves are literature. It was highly praised by {{SBDEL lkpl|Dryden, John|Dryden|nosc=x}} and {{SBDEL lkpl|Waller, Edmund|Waller|nosc=x}}. The first ed. appeared in 1600, and was dedicated to Queen Elizabeth. F. also wrote a treatise on ''[[Demonology]]'', in which he was a devout believer.

&lt;section end=&quot;FairfaxE&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FalconerW&quot; /&gt;'''[[Author:William Falconer|{{sc|Falconer, William}}]]''' (1732-1769).—Poet, ''s''. of a barber in
Edin., where he was ''b''., became a sailor, and was thus thoroughly competent to describe the management of the storm-tossed vessel, the career and fate of which are described in his poem, ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]'' (1762), a work of genuine, though unequal, talent. The efforts which F. made to improve the poem in the successive ed. which&lt;section end=&quot;FalconerW&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A dictionary of printers and printing.djvu/672</title>
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      <text bytes="8757" sha1="k1ht11g25fbhy1t3o097hu4tq5fkkqw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;LA2-bot&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|663|EIGHTEENTH CENTURY.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Mr. Ogle to translate some of Chaucer's ''Tales'' into modern English, which he did, with great spirit, at the rate of three-pence per line for his trouble. Poor Boyse wore a blanket, because he was destitute of breeches; and was, at last, found famished to death, with a pen in his hand.

Falconer's* deaf and dumb sister, notwithstanding the success of his poem of the ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]'', was for some time the tenant of an hospital.

Buchan's ''Domestic Medicine'', which has been one of the most popular works ever published, and yielded immense sums, was sold for £5; and [[Author:Fanny Burney|Miss Burney]] obtained only five guineas for her ''[[Evelina]]'',

[[Author:Richard Savage|Savage]] was in continual distress, independent of an unnatural mother's persecution. He sold his beautiful poem of the ''[[The Wanderer|Wanderer]]'' for £10.

[[Author:James Thomson (1700-1748)|Thomson's]] ''Winter'' was bought by Andrew Millar, the bookseller, through the intercession of [[Author:David Mallet|Mallet]], for a small sum.

Poor [[Author:Thomas Chatterton|Chatterton]], one of the greatest geniuses of any age, and who is styled—

{{c|{{fine|The sleepless boy, that perish'd in his pride,}}}}

destroyed himself through want, (though insanity would be the better term, since it was in the family,) still left wherewithal, by the aid of friends, to preserve his sister from want and poverty in her latter years.

[[Author:Christopher Smart|Christopher Smart]], the translator of ''[[Author:Quintus Horatius Flaccus|Horace]]'', and no mean poet, died in the rules of the king's


&lt;ref&gt;William Falconer was born in the conntf of Vtfe, in Scotland, of homble parent*, and bred to the aea. Tboagh he possessed few advantages from education, he bad good natural talents, which he cultivated with assiduity. In 1751 he published a poem on the iHBtk of the Prbtet of Walet I but his reputation rest* on the Shipwreek, a poem In three cantos, which is highly descriptive and pathetic. It originated in the circumstance of the author's being shipwrecked in a voyage from Alexandria to Venice, when only three of the crew escaped. Falconer also wrote an Ode to Ike Dukt of York, which obtained him the post of purser to the Royal George. He likewise compiled the Marme Diciiouani, 4to. t and published a poem against WUkes and Churellll, under the title of the Demagogue. He sailed fhimEneland in irOV, in the Aurora, fortheKast ladies, but after her departure ftom the Cape of Good Hope the ship was never heard of.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref&gt;t William Bnchan was born at Acram, Roxburghshire, in ITW, and educated at Edinburgh, with a view to the cbotch, which, lunrever, he quitted for the study of medicine. He settled at Ackworth, In Yorkshire, where he l&gt;ecame physician to the foundlinK hospital there. In 1770 he published his popular book, entitled DomeaHe Medieine, or a Treatlle on tke Cure and Prevention of Biteaiet. He finally settled in London, where he died Feb. », 1805.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref&gt;t Thomas Chatterton was born at Bristol, Nov. 10, I75S, and educated at a charity school, in that dty. At fourteen years of age, he was articled clerk to an attorney at Bristol, with whom he continued about three years 1 yet, though hi* education was confined, he diseovetvd an eariy turn towards poetry and English antiquitie*, and parllcalaily towards heraldry. In April, 1770, he left Bristol, disgusted with his profession, and the line of life in which be was placed, and went to London, in hopes of advancing his fortune by his pen; he sunk at once from the sublimity of liis views to an absolute dependence on the patronage of booksellers. The exertions of his genius brouf^ht in so little profit, that he was soon reduced to extreme indigence; so that at last, oppressed with poverty and disease, in a fit of despair, he put an end to liia existence, August, 1770, with a dose of poison. Concerning the anthenticity of the poenu, under the name of Romtep, (that is, whether they are really written by a person of that name, or were only,what they are generally considered to be, the forgeries of Chatterton) there long existed a mighty controversy; and the war among the critics ha* even now scarcely subsided.&lt;/ref&gt;

bench. Poor Smart* when at Pembroke college, wore a path upon one of the paved walks.

[[Author:Joseph Warton|Joseph Warton]] informs us, that when [[Author:Thomas Gray (1716-1771)|Gray]] published his exquisite ''[[Ode on Eton College]]'', his first publication, little notice was taken of it.

[[Author:Samuel Butler (1612-1680)|Butler]], the author of ''[[Hudibras]]'', according to [[Author:John Dennis (1658-1734)|Dennis]], was left to starve, and died in a garret; and [[Author:Thomas Otway|Otway]], perished through want in an obscure public-house on Tower hill.

[[Author:Oliver Goldsmith|Goldsmith]] disposed of his ''[[The Vicar of Wakefield|Vicar of Wakefield]]'', for £60, partly from compassion and partly from deference to Johnson's judgment; but Mr. John Newbery, the purchaser, had so little confidence in the value of his purchase that it remained in manuscript until the publication of the ''[[Traveller]]'' had established the fame of the author.

[[Author:Robert Tannahill|Tannahill]], in whose hands the lyre of Scotland retained its native, artless, sweet, and touching notes; and whose songs are distinguished by elevation and tenderness of sentiment, richness of rural imagery, and simplicity of diction, put a period to his existence, principally, because Mr.

&lt;ref&gt;* Christopher Smart, a poet and miscellaneous writer, was born at Shtpbourae, April 13, 1711, and died at London, May IS, 1771. Mr. Smart was liberally patronized by Mr. John Newbery, the eminent bookseller, in St. Pml't church-yard.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref&gt;t John Dennis was born in London in 1897, and became celebrated as a poet, dramatist, and critic. In 1712, he attacked [[Author:Joseph Addison|Addison's]] ''[[Cato, a Tragedy|Cato]]'', which occasioned a whimsical pamphlet, called the ''Narrative of Dr. John Norris, concerning the strange and deplorable phrenzy of Mr. John Dennis''. Be died Jan. 6, I734. The following epigram was written by Savage, and first published in Johnson's preface to the ''Lives of the English Poets''.{{pbr}}{{ppoem|start=open|end=close|Should Dennis publish you had stabb'd your brother, Lampoon'd your monarch, or debauch'd your mother; Say what revenge on Dennis can be had. Too dull fbr laughter, for reply too mad? On one so poor you cannot take the law; On one so old your sword you scorn to draw; Uncag'd then let the harmless monster rage. Secure in dulness, madness, want, and age.}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref&gt;t Robert Tannahill was born at Paisley, Junes, 1774) his father was a weaver, and both his parents were much . respected for their intelligence and worth; the subject of this slight sketdi was the fourth child of six sons and one daughter. After learning to read, write, and cast acconnta^ Tannahill was sent to the loom, and early began to distinguish himself by writing verses. At thu time Paisley was in a very flourishing condition j and dancing partiea and rural excursions were fNquent among the young people of both sexes, and in these he olten Joined. He then formed many of those poetical attachments, which he afterwards celebrated in song. About I BOO, accompanied by a younger brother, he came to England. Robert obtuned work at Bolton, and the other at Preston, where they remained about two years, and then retired home. Tannahill's appearance was not indicative of superior endowment. He was small in stature, and his manners were so retiring, and his reliance on hlinseif so small, that wlthont the assurance of Mends, of which he fbund many, he probably would never have been induced to give to the world many of those pieces which are pronounced to be the very perfection of song writing. A mere ennmeratioB of some of their titles will be sufllcient to remind most readers of their excellence. The Braes o* Balquither; Gloomy Winter's now awa \ Blythe was the time when he feed wi* my tether; London's boimy Woods and Brees; Jessie the ilower o' Dnmblane; Och hey! Johnie lad; Clean Pease Straw; O, are you sleeping, Maggie; Lowland lassie, wilt thou go r The Harper of^Mnll; The Wood of Craiglelee; The Braes o'Glenlfltori The Ijlss o' Arranteenie, &amp;c Stc— In his disposition he was tender and humane, and extremely attached to hia home, his kindred, and his frioid*. His life was simple and unvaried in its details, but even the nnevenlftil character of his existence renders more striking and more affecting its tragic cioae, being found drowned May 17, 1810, when he had only reached hia thiity-sixth year.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule}}
{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Folk-Lore Journal Volume 3 1885.djvu/393</title>
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SEVENTH ANNUAL REPORT OF THE COUNCIL, 

27th JUNE, 1885. 

The Council are glad to report that, although the past year has 
not been one of special activity, there are signs that the steady 
work now being accomplished, particularly the progress of the 
Tabulation of Folk-talcs under the superintendence of, and in 
accordance with the scheme promulgated by, the Folk-tale 
Committee, is having very wide and important influence upon 
the study of Folk-lore, not only in this country, but abroad. 

It is not surprising that in the seventh year of the Society's 
existence there should have arisen a desire for the determination 
of the scope and functions of the study of folk-lore. Upon this 
subject a very useful discussion has taken place in the pages of 
the Folk-lore Journal; to which the following Members of the 
Society have contributed, Miss Burne, Messrs. Gomme, Hart- 
land, Machado y Alvarez, Nutt, Wake, and Wheatley. Differ- 
ences of opinion exist as to the scope and functions of the study, 
but the writers are practically unanimous that folk-lore should 
be henceforth recognised as an independent science, and should 
no longer be confused or amalgamated with the science of com- 
parative mythology. Much discussion has at various times taken 
place in the pages of the Academy^ Mdlusine, and elsewhere as 
to the methods and scope of folk-lore, and the work of the 
Society has been frequently misunderstood by scholars and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Folk-Lore Journal Volume 7 1889.djvu/496</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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ANNUAL REPORT, 26tH NOVEMBER, 1889. 

Howard, David, Rectory Manor, Walthamstow. 
Tabor, Charles, 11, Victoria Road, Forest Gate. 
Waddington, F. S., Prospect Hill Park, Walthamstow. 

13. Gloucestershire. 

George, Charles W., 51, Hampton Road, Clifton. 

Hodgson, B. H., F.L.S., &amp;c., The Grange, Alderley, Wootton-under-Edge. 

Mendham, Miss Edith, Cajraham Villa, Richmond Road, Clifton. 

14. Hampshire. 
[Nil.] 

15. Herefordshire. 
Murray- Aynsley, Mrs., Great Brampton, near Hereford. 

16. Hertfordshire. 

Evans, John, Esq., D,C.L.,LL.D., F.R.S., P.S.A., Nash Mills, Hemel Hempstead. 

Gosselin, Hellier, Blakesware, Ware. 

Stuart, J., Bishop's Stortford. 

Verulam, Right Hon. the Earl of, Gorhambury, St. Albans. 

17. Huntingdon. 
[Nil.] 

18. Kent. 

Davis, Lt.-Col. John, Bifrons, Farnborough. 

Johnston, F. J., Lamas, Chislehurst. 

Joyce, T. Heath, Freshford, South Hill, Bromley. 

Lubbock, Sir J., Bart., M.P., F.R.S., High Elms, Beckenham. 

O'Neill, John, Trafalgar House, Selling, Faversham. 

Phillips, Rev. T. Lloyd, M.A., F.S.A, The Abbey, Beckenham. 

Tolhurst, John, Esq., F.S.A., Glenbrook, Beckenham. 

Walton, Charles, Ardenhurst Culverden, Tunbridge Wells. 

19. Lancashire.' 

Adshead, G. H., Fern Villas, 94, Bolton Road, Pendleton. 
Chorlton, Thomas, 32, Brazenose Street, Manchester. 
Green, Miss Marian, Girls' High School, Blackburn. 
Heape, Charles, Glebe House, Rochdale. 
Manchester Free Library, King Street, Manchester.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Folk-Lore Journal Volume 7 1889.djvu/500</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="1796" sha1="7uo6krepu68hi4xf5w0sxhz8780vj5i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;LA2-bot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;364 ANNUAL REPORT, 26tH NOVEMBER, 1889. 

Scotland. 

Black, William George, 1, Alfred Terrace, Hillhead, Glasgow. 

Brown, J. A. Harvie, Dunipace, Larbert, N.B. 

Crombie, John W., M.A., Balgownie, Aberdeen. 

Davidson, Thomas, 339, High Street, Edinburgh. 

Duncan, J., Dalrymple, 211, Hope Street, Glasgow. 

Forlong, Major-Gen. J. G. R., 11, Douglas Crescent, Edinburgh. 

Glasgow University Library, per Messrs. Maclehose, 61, Vincent Street, Glasgow 

Glasgow Archaeological Society, per Messrs. Maclehose, 61, Vincent Street, 

Glasgow. 
Gregor, Eev. Walter, Pitsligo, Fraserburg, Aberdeenshire, 
Herbertson, John T., Port Dundas, Glasgow. 
Kerniack, John, University Club, Edinburgh. 
MacBain, Alexander, M.A., Rainings School, Inverness. 
Mackinlay, Dr., 6, Great Western Terrace, Kelvinside, Glasgow. 
Maclagan, R. C, 5, Coates Crescent, Edinburgh. 
MacRitchie, D., 4, Archibald Place, Edinburgh. 

Mitchell Library, 60, Ingram Street, Glasgow, care of F. T. Barrett, Esq. 
Murdoch, J. B., Hamilton Place, Longside, Glasgow. 
Veitch Professor, J., LL.D., Glasgow University. 
Stuart, Mrs. Alexander, 19, Regent's Terrace, Edinburgh. 
Wilson, William, 42, Glasford Street, Glasgow. 

Ireland. 

Irish Archaeological Society (Colonel Wood Martin). 
Kinahan, G. H., M.R.I.A., Leinster Road, Rathmines. 
King, L. White, 52, Lansdowne Road, Dublin. 

Examination and Arrangement of Existing Material, 

The Council have every reason to be satisfied with the work, 
and the promise of it, which has signalised the past year. A plan 
is under consideration for the compilation of a bibliographical 
hand-list of folk-tales, and it is hoped a first draft of this 
may be soon ready for circulation among the members ; the 
handbook of folklore, which has been unfortunately so long&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Folk-Lore Journal Volume 7 1889.djvu/506</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1269118</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133308</id>
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      <text bytes="1849" sha1="2nsou8xd7bjcvorc3ahavhoqscwh74o" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;LA2-bot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;370 ANNUAL REPORT, 26tH NOVEMBER, 1889. 

the first of January, so that the volume will be ready For delivery 
to members early next year as the second volume for 1890. 

The Council are glad to be able to report that they have 
accepted an advantageous offer from Mr. Nutt, by which a 
volume of Gaelic tales with English translation by the Rev. Dr. 
Maclnnes will be issued to members of the Society as the 
second volume for the current year. 

The Council have- also arranged for an English translation of 
the mythical portions of Saxo Grammaticus, with an introduction 
by Professor York Powell, and they hope to arrange for volumes 
of folklore extracts from classical and mediaeval writers, such 
as ^lian, Gervase of Tilbury, and the chroniclers. 

A most important step has been taken with reference to the 
Folklore Journal. It was felt that in its present shape it did not 
sufficiently represent the scientific aims of the Society, and Mr. 
Nutt came forward with a proposal which the Council, after the 
most careful consideration, have accepted. It involves the 
issue of the Journal under a new title. It will be divided 
into sections, as follows: 

(1) Original articles, whether collections of facts or exposi- 
tions of theory. 

(2) Eeprints of English material, not easily accessible, and 
translations of little-read languages. 

(3) A record of the progress of study in folklore, and in 
allied branches of science. This record will comprise: 

(a) A bibliography of English and non-English books 

relating to folklore, mythology, archaic and savage 
institutions, mediaeval romantic literature, archaic 
history, etc. 

(b) Summaries of contents of folklore periodicals, and 
citation of articlesr of interest to the folklorist in 
general periodicals. 

(c) Reports on well-defined sections of folklore, to be&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:EB1911 - Volume 26.djvu/202</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1309819</id>
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        <id>522506</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="9077" sha1="8lc4nudbz759yae6710tl5cbxwmm3vs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Htonl&quot; /&gt;{{EB1911 Page Heading|184|Swat|Swaziland|  }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Swartz&quot; /&gt;Linnaeus and Thunberg, and began early to make excursions. He made a voyage to America in 1783, visited England in 1788, returned to Sweden in 1789, and was made professor of natural history in Stockholm. He was the author of many systematic works, and largely extended our knowledge of both flowering plants and cryptogams. He died in 1818.
&lt;section end=&quot;Swartz&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Swat&quot; /&gt;'''SWAT,''' a tract on the Peshawar border of the North-West Frontier Province of India, consisting of the valley of the Swat river above its confluence with the Panjkora. This valley is some 70&amp;nbsp;m. long, varying from 10&amp;nbsp;m. to a few hundred yards in breadth; it is intersected by ravines and glens, which bring down the drainage of the ranges on either side. Only that portion of the valley which lies beyond the Peshawar frontier hills, and which is reached by the Malakand, the Shahkot and other passes from the south, is Swat. To the east are the independent hill tracts of Kohistan and Buner, all bordering the Indus, and to the west are Dir and Bajour.

The Swat river rises among snow mountains in the Kohistan, not far from the source of the Gilgit river. After flowing due south for nearly 70&amp;nbsp;m., it turns to the west and is joined by the Panjkora. It then passes through the Mohmand country, and on entering Peshawar district spreads out to the south-east in many channels which ultimately fall into the Kabul river. Total length about 400&amp;nbsp;m. In British territory its waters have been utilised by a series of canals to irrigate an area of about 160,000 acres; and the system is now being extended by means of a tunnel through the Malakand range, which will tap the river much higher up.

Swat was better known to the ancients, and to the warriors of Baber’s time, than it was to us until the frontier risings of 1895–97 gave British surveyors the opportunity of visiting the country. The ancient name of the river was Suastos, and that of the Panjkora was Ghoura, under which names they figure in the history of Alexander’s campaign. The site of the city Massaga, the capital of the Assakeni, is supposed to be near the modern Manglaur. But since the adoption of the Khyber as the main high road from Kabul to India the Swat routes had passed into oblivion. Only the lower portion of the Swat valley, where the river intervenes between Malakand and the passes leading to Dir from the Panjkora, is of military significance. The upper valley is closely gripped between mountain spurs stretching southwards from the Hindu Koh, rising to 15,000&amp;nbsp;ft. on one side and 19,000&amp;nbsp;ft. on the other, leaving but a narrow space between their rugged summits and the banks of the river. The valley, narrow though it is, and traversed by the worst conceivable type of hill tracks, contains many villages or hamlets, and is pretty thickly populated. The district has come into prominence of recent years, on account of its lying on the direct road to Chitral.

The Swatis are a clan of Yusafzai Pathans numbering 40,000 fighting men but are of weakly and thin physique, due to the malaria with which the valley is saturated. They are divided into three main clans, the Baizais, Ranizais and Khwazozais. They had not much name for valour, but they opposed a stout resistance to Sir Robert Low’s advance over the Malakand Pass in 1895 to the relief of Chitral; and again in 1897, under the influence of fanaticism, they showed desperate bravery in the attack on the Malakand Fort and Chakdara. They are all Suni Mahommedans, and have earned the reputation of being the most bigoted of all the Afghan tribes. For many years they were under the religious dominance of the Akhund of Swat, Abdul Ghafur, who, born in 1794, obtained ascendancy by means of his ascetic practices, ruled practically undisputed in Swat for the last 30 years of his life, and died in 1877. The Akhund, after his experience of the British strength in the Umbeyla Campaign of 1863, always exerted his influence in favour of peace with the British government, though in his earlier days he was sometimes troublesome. He was succeeded by his son Mian Gul, who never possessed the same influence as his father.
&lt;section end=&quot;Swat&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Swatow&quot; /&gt;'''SWATOW''' (also ''Shan''ʽ''tow''), a port of China, in the province of Kwang-tung, opened to foreign trade in 1869. The population is upwards of 60,000. The town is situated at the mouth of the main branch of the river Han, which 30 miles inland flows past the great city of Ch’aochow Fu or Tai-chu (Tie-chu), while the surrounding country is more populous and full of towns and villages than any other part of the province. The climate is good, but being situated at the southern end of the Formosa Strait the town is exposed to the full force of the typhoons, and much destruction is occasionally wrought. English merchants settled on Double Island in the river as early as 1856; but the city, which is built on ground but recently recovered from the sea, was formerly a mere fishing village. The trade of the port has rapidly increased. In 1869 the total value of the trade was £4,800,000, in 1884 £5,519,772, and in 1904 £7,063,579. The surrounding country is a great sugar-cane district producing annually about 2,400,000 cwt. of sugar, and there is an extensive refinery in the town employing upwards of 600 workmen and possessing a reservoir for 7,000,000 gallons of water. Next in value comes the manufacture of bean-cake, which is also imported in large quantities from Niuchwang, Chifu, Shanghai, Amoy and Hong-Kong. Among the leading exports are tea (since about 1872); grass-cloth, manufactured at Swatow from so-called Taiwan hemp (the fibre of the ''Boehmeria nivea'' from Formosa); pine-apple cloth, manufactured in the villages about Chieh-Yang (a town 22&amp;nbsp;m. distant); oranges, for which the district is famous; cheap fans; and pewter, iron and tin wares. Swatow is also a great emigration port and was the scene of many kidnapping adventures on the part of foreigners in the early days. Their outrages gave rise to much hostile feeling towards foreigners who were not allowed to enter the city of Ch’aochow Fu until the year 1861. Of the whole foreign trade of the port upwards of 83% is in British bottoms, the trade with Hong-Kong being of especial importance.

About 1865 the whole Swatow district was still divided into a number of “independent townships, each ruled by its own headmen,” and the population was described in the official gazetteer, as “generally rebellious and wicked in the highest degree.” Mr Forrest, British consular agent, relates that in that year he was witness to the preparations for a fight between the people living on the opposite sides of the estuary, which was only prevented by a British war-vessel. The Tʽaipʽings swept over the country, and by their ravages and plundering did much to tame the independence of the clans. The punishment inflicted in 1869 by Commander Tones on the inhabitants of Otingpui (Ou-ting-pei), about 8&amp;nbsp;m. from Swatow, for the attack they had made on the boats of H.M.S. “Cockchafer,” showed the Chinese authorities that such piratical villages were not so strong as had been supposed. General Fang (a native of Ch’aochow Fu) was sent to reduce the district to order, and he carried out his instructions with remorseless rigour.
&lt;section end=&quot;Swatow&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Swaziland&quot; /&gt;'''SWAZILAND''' (native name Pungwane), a country of British South Africa bounded S., W. and N. by the Transvaal, E. by the Portuguese possessions at Delagoa Bay and the Ingwavuma division of Zululand. It lies between the Drakensberg and Lebombo Mountains and is separated from the Indian Ocean by low land varying in width from 30 to 50&amp;nbsp;m. It has an area of 6536 sq.&amp;nbsp;m. (being somewhat larger than Yorkshire) and a population (1904), of 85,484, of whom 898 were whites. The natives are nearly all Ama-Swazi Bantus, commonly called Swazis, and are closely allied to the Zulus.

Spurs from the Drakensberg occupy a large part of the country, which may be divided into three parallel belts running north and south. The western belt has an average altitude of about 4500&amp;nbsp;ft., and is known as the high veld. It is succeeded by the middle veld—not more than 2500&amp;nbsp;ft. above the sea, and that by the low veld—1000&amp;nbsp;ft. high, which reaches to the foot of the Lebombo Mountains. These are flat-topped, nowhere higher than 2000&amp;nbsp;ft. The country is well watered by numerous rivers, all of which discharge into Delagoa Bay. The central and southern parts are drained by the Usutu and other tributaries of the Maputa; the northern region by the {{EB1911 lkpl|Komati}} (''q.v.'') and the Umbelozi. The Umbelozi has two chief headstreams, the Black and the White Umbelozi, the White branch being the more southerly. The climate is warm but healthy save in some of the river valleys. The flora and fauna differ in no&lt;section end=&quot;Swaziland&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Urantia Book, 1st Edition.djvu/7</title>
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{{ph/leveled|level=3|PART I. [[The Urantia Book/Part 1|THE CENTRAL AND SUPERUNIVERSES]]}}

{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-c-c-1||{{sc|Paper}}|{{sc|Author}}|{{sc|Page}}}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1||[[The Urantia Book/Foreword|Foreword]]|Divine Counselor|1}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|1.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 1|The Universal Father]]|Divine Counselor|21}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|2.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 2|The Nature of God]]|Divine Counselor|33}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|3.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 3|The Attributes of God]]|Divine Counselor|44}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|4.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 4|God's Relation to the Universe]]|Divine Counselor|54}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|5.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 5|God's Relation to the Individual]]|Divine Counselor|62}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|6.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 6|The Eternal Son]]|Divine Counselor|73}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|7.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 7|Relation of the Eternal Son to the Universe]]|Divine Counselor|81}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|8.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 8|The Infinite Spirit]]|Divine Counselor|90}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|9.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 9|Relation of the Infinite Spirit to the Universe]]|Divine Counselor|98}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|10.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 10|The Paradise Trinity]]|Universal Censor|108}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|11.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 11|The Eternal Isle of Paradise]]|Perfector of Wisdom|118}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|12.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 12|The Universe of Universes]]|Perfector of Wisdom|128}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|13.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 13|The Sacred Spheres of Paradise]]|Perfector of Wisdom|143}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|14.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 14|The Central and Divine Universe]]|Perfector of Wisdom|152}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|15.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 15|The Seven Superuniverses]]|Universal Censor|164}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|16.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 16|The Seven Master Spirits]]|Universal Censor|184}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|17.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 17|The Seven Supreme Spirit Groups]]|Divine Counselor|197}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|18.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 18|The Supreme Trinity Personalities]]|Divine Counselor|207}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|19.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 19|The Co-ordinate Trinity-Origin Beings]]|Divine Counselor|214}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|20.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 20|The Paradise Sons of God]]|Perfector of Wisdom|223}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|21.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 21|The Paradise Creator Sons]]|Perfector of Wisdom|234}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|22.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 22|The Trinitized Sons of God]]|Mighty Messenger|243}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|23.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 23|The Solitary Messengers]]|Divine Counselor|256}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|24.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 24|Higher Personalities of the Infinite Spirit]]|Divine Counselor|264}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|25.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 25|The Messenger Hosts of Space]]|One High in Authority|273}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|26.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 26|Ministering Spirits of the Central Universe]]|Perfector of Wisdom|285}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|27.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 27|Ministry of the Primary Supernaphim]]|Perfector of Wisdom|298}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|28.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 28|Ministering Spirits of the Superuniverses]]|Mighty Messenger|306}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{TOC end}}
{{c|vii}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Urantia Book, 1st Edition.djvu/8</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1374395</id>
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      <parentid>15130989</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:16:23Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Xaxafrad</username>
        <id>9974</id>
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      <text bytes="3865" sha1="cnr3ykn5z6hgkikhksrr36e8vknrfdb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;{{rh|viii|{{sc|The Titles of the Papers}}}}
{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-c-c-1||{{sc|Paper}}|{{sc|Author}}|{{sc|Page}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|29.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 29|The Universe Power Directors]]|Universal Censor|319}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|30.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 30|Personalities of the Grand Universe]]|Mighty Messenger|330}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|31.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 31|The Corps of the Finality]]|Divine Counselor and One Without Name and Number|345}}
{{TOC end}}


{{ph/leveled|level=3|PART II. [[The Urantia Book/Part 2|THE LOCAL UNIVERSE]]}}

{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|32.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 32|The Evolution of Local Universes]]|Mighty Messenger|357}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|33.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 33|Administration of the Local Universe]]|Chief of Archangels|366}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|34.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 34|The Local Universe Mother Spirit]]|Mighty Messenger|374}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|35.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 35|The Local Universe Sons of God]]|Chief of Archangels|384}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|36.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 36|The Life Carriers]]|Vorondadek Son|396}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|37.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 37|Personalities of the Local Universe]]|Brilliant Evening Star|406}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|38.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 38|Ministering Spirits of the Local Universe]]|Melchizedek|418}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|39.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 39|The Seraphic Hosts]]|Melchizedek|426}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|40.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 40|The Ascending Sons of God]]|Mighty Messenger|443}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|41.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 41|Physical Aspects of the Local Universe]]|Archangel|455}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|42.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 42|Energy—Mind and Matter]]|Mighty Messenger|467}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|43.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 43|The Constellations]]|Malavatia Melchizedek|485}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|44.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 44|The Celestial Artisans]]|Archangel|497}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|45.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 45|The Local System Administration]]|Melchizedek|509}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|46.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 46|The Local System Headquarters]]|Archangel|519}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|47.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 47|The Seven Mansion Worlds]]|Brilliant Evening Star|530}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|48.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 48|The Morontia Life]]|Archangel|541}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|49.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 49|The Inhabited Worlds]]|Melchizedek|559}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|50.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 50|The Planetary Princes]]|Secondary Lanonandek|572}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|51.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 51|The Planetary Adams]]|Secondary Lanonandek|580}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|52.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 52|Planetary Mortal Epochs]]|Mighty Messenger|589}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|53.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 53|The Lucifer Rebellion]]|Manovandet Melchizedek|601}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|54.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 54|Problems of the Lucifer Rebellion]]|Mighty Messenger|613}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|55.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 55|The Spheres of Light and Life]]|Mighty Messenger|621}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|56.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 56|Universal Unity]]|Mighty Messenger and Machiventa Melchizedek|637}}
{{TOC end}}


{{ph/leveled|level=3|PART III. [[The Urantia Book/Part 3|THE HISTORY OF URANTIA]]}}

{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|57.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 57|The Origin of Urantia]]|Life Carrier|651}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|58.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 58|Life Establishment on Urantia]]|Life Carrier|664}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|59.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 59|The Marine-Life Era on Urantia]]|Life Carrier|672}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|60.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 60|Urantia during the Early Land-Life Era]]|Life Carrier|685}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|61.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 61|The Mammalian Era on Urantia]]|Life Carrier|693}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|62.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 62|The Dawn Races of Early Man]]|Life Carrier|703}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{TOC end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15132843</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:23:52Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Xaxafrad</username>
        <id>9974</id>
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      <text bytes="3859" sha1="g60l3x57zmpddngjtijwh5m0w5318pn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;{{rh|viii|{{sc|The Titles of the Papers}}}}
{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-c-c-1||{{sc|Paper}}|{{sc|Author}}|{{sc|Page}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|29.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 29|The Universe Power Directors]]|Universal Censor|319}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|30.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 30|Personalities of the Grand Universe]]|Mighty Messenger|330}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|31.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 31|The Corps of the Finality]]|Divine Counselor and One Without Name and Number|345}}

{{nop}}

{{TOC row c|4|{{ph/leveled|level=3|PART II. [[The Urantia Book/Part 2|THE LOCAL UNIVERSE]]}}}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|32.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 32|The Evolution of Local Universes]]|Mighty Messenger|357}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|33.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 33|Administration of the Local Universe]]|Chief of Archangels|366}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|34.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 34|The Local Universe Mother Spirit]]|Mighty Messenger|374}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|35.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 35|The Local Universe Sons of God]]|Chief of Archangels|384}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|36.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 36|The Life Carriers]]|Vorondadek Son|396}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|37.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 37|Personalities of the Local Universe]]|Brilliant Evening Star|406}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|38.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 38|Ministering Spirits of the Local Universe]]|Melchizedek|418}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|39.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 39|The Seraphic Hosts]]|Melchizedek|426}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|40.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 40|The Ascending Sons of God]]|Mighty Messenger|443}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|41.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 41|Physical Aspects of the Local Universe]]|Archangel|455}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|42.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 42|Energy—Mind and Matter]]|Mighty Messenger|467}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|43.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 43|The Constellations]]|Malavatia Melchizedek|485}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|44.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 44|The Celestial Artisans]]|Archangel|497}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|45.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 45|The Local System Administration]]|Melchizedek|509}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|46.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 46|The Local System Headquarters]]|Archangel|519}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|47.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 47|The Seven Mansion Worlds]]|Brilliant Evening Star|530}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|48.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 48|The Morontia Life]]|Archangel|541}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|49.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 49|The Inhabited Worlds]]|Melchizedek|559}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|50.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 50|The Planetary Princes]]|Secondary Lanonandek|572}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|51.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 51|The Planetary Adams]]|Secondary Lanonandek|580}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|52.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 52|Planetary Mortal Epochs]]|Mighty Messenger|589}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|53.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 53|The Lucifer Rebellion]]|Manovandet Melchizedek|601}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|54.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 54|Problems of the Lucifer Rebellion]]|Mighty Messenger|613}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|55.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 55|The Spheres of Light and Life]]|Mighty Messenger|621}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|56.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 56|Universal Unity]]|Mighty Messenger and Machiventa Melchizedek|637}}

{{nop}}

{{TOC row c|4|{{ph/leveled|level=3|PART III. [[The Urantia Book/Part 3|THE HISTORY OF URANTIA]]}}}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|57.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 57|The Origin of Urantia]]|Life Carrier|651}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|58.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 58|Life Establishment on Urantia]]|Life Carrier|664}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|59.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 59|The Marine-Life Era on Urantia]]|Life Carrier|672}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|60.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 60|Urantia during the Early Land-Life Era]]|Life Carrier|685}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|61.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 61|The Mammalian Era on Urantia]]|Life Carrier|693}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|62.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 62|The Dawn Races of Early Man]]|Life Carrier|703}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{TOC end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Urantia Book, 1st Edition.djvu/9</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1374396</id>
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{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-c-c-1||{{sc|Paper}}|{{sc|Author}}|{{sc|Page}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|63.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 63|The First Human Family]]|Life Carrier|711}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|64.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 64|The Evolutionary Races of Color]]|Life Carrier|718}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|65.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 65|The Overcontrol of Evolution]]|Life Carrier|730}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|66.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 66|The Planetary Prince of Urantia]]|Melchizedek|741}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|67.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 67|The Planetary Rebellion]]|Melchizedek|754}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|68.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 68|The Dawn of Civilization]]|Melchizedek|763}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|69.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 69|Primitive Human Institutions]]|Melchizedek|772}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|70.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 70|The Evolution of Human Government]]|Melchizedek|783}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|71.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 71|Development of the State]]|Melchizedek|800}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|72.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 72|Government on a Neighboring Planet]]|Melchizedek|808}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|73.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 73|The Garden of Eden]]|Solonia|821}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|74.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 74|Adam and Eve]]|Solonia|828}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|75.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 75|The Default of Adam and Eve]]|Solonia|839}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|76.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 76|The Second Garden]]|Solonia|847}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|77.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 77|The Midway Creatures]]|Archangel|855}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|78.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 78|The Violet Race after the Days of Adam]]|Archangel|868}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|79.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 79|Andite Expansion in the Orient]]|Archangel|878}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|80.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 80|Andite Expansion in the Occident]]|Archangel|889}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|81.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 81|Development of Modern Civilization]]|Archangel|900}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|82.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 82|The Evolution of Marriage]]|Chief of Seraphim|913}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|83.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 83|The Marriage Institution]]|Chief of Seraphim|922}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|84.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 84|Marriage and Family Life]]|Chief of Seraphim|931}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|85.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 85|The Origins of Worship]]|Brilliant Evening Star|944}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|86.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 86|Early Evolution of Religion]]|Brilliant Evening Star|950}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|87.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 87|The Ghost Cults]]|Brilliant Evening Star|958}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|88.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 88|Fetishes, Charms, and Magic]]|Brilliant Evening Star|967}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|89.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 89|Sin, Sacrifice, and Atonement]]|Brilliant Evening Star|974}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|90.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 90|Shamanism—Medicine Men and Priests]]|Melchizedek|986}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|91.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 91|The Evolution of Prayer]]|Chief of Midwayers|994}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|92.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 92|The Later Evolution of Religion]]|Melchizedek|1003}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|93.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 93|Machiventa Melchizedek]]|Melchizedek|1014}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|94.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 94|The Melchizedek Teachings in the Orient]]|Melchizedek|1027}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|95.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 95|The Melchizedek Teachings in the Levant]]|Melchizedek|1042}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|96.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 96|Yahweh—God of the Hebrews]]|Melchizedek|1052}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|97.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 97|Evolution of the God Concept among the Hebrews]]|Melchizedek|1062}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|98.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 98|The Melchizedek teachings in the Occident]]|Melchizedek|1077}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|99.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 99|Social Problems of Religion]]|Melchizedek|1086}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|100.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 100|Religion in Human Experience]]|Melchizedek|1094}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|101.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 101|The Real Nature of Religion]]|Melchizedek|1104}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|102.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 102|The Foundations of Religious Faith]]|Melchizedek|1118}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{TOC end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Urantia Book, 1st Edition.djvu/10</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1374397</id>
    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:18:15Z</timestamp>
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{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-c-c-1||{{sc|Paper}}|{{sc|Author}}|{{sc|Page}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|103. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 103|The Reality of Religious Experience]]|Melchizedek|1129}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|104. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 104|Growth of the Trinity Concept]]|Melchizedek|1143}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|105. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 105|Deity and Reality]]|Melchizedek|1152}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|106. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 106|Universe Levels of Reality]]|Melchizedek|1162}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|107. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 107|Origin and Nature of Thought Adjusters]]|Solitary Messenger|1176}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|108. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 108|Mission and Ministry of Thought Adjusters]]|Solitary Messenger|1185}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|109. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 109|Relation of Adjusters to Universe Creatures]]|Solitary Messenger|1195}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|110. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 110|Relation of Adjusters to Individual Mortals]]|Solitary Messenger|1203}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|111. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 111|The Adjuster and the Soul]]|Solitary Messenger|1215}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|112. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 112|Personality Survival]]|Solitary Messenger|1225}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|113. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 113|The Seraphic Guardians of Destiny]]|Chief of Seraphim|1241}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|114. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 114|Seraphic Planetary Government]]|Chief of Seraphim|1250}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|115. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 115|The Supreme Being]]|Mighty Messenger|1260}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|116. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 116|The Almighty Supreme]]|Mighty Messenger|1268}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|117. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 117|God the Supreme]]|Mighty Messenger|1278}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|118. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 118|Supreme and Ultimate—Time and Space]]|Mighty Messenger|1294}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|119. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 119|The Bestowals of Christ Michael]]|Chief of Evening Stars|1308}}
{{TOC end}}


{{ph/leveled|level=3|PART IV. [[The Urantia Book/Part 4|THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF JESUS]]}}

{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|120. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 120|The Bestowal of Michael on Urantia]]|Mantutia Melchizedek|1323}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|121. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 121|The Times of Michael's Bestowal]]|Midwayer Commission|1332}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|122. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 122|Birth and Infancy of Jesus]]|Midwayer Commission|1344}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|123. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 123|The Early Childhood of Jesus]]|Midwayer Commission|1355}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|124. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 124|The Later Childhood of Jesus]]|Midwayer Commission|1366}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|125. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 125|Jesus at Jerusalem]]|Midwayer Commission|1377}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|126. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 126|The Two Crucial Years]]|Midwayer Commission|1386}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|127. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 127|The Adolescent Years]]|Midwayer Commission|1395}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|128. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 128|Jesus' Early Manhood]]|Midwayer Commission|1407}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|129. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 129|The Later Adult Life of Jesus]]|Midwayer Commission|1419}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|130. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 130|On the Way to Rome]]|Midwayer Commission|1427}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|131. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 131|The World's Religions]]|Midwayer Commission|1442}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|132. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 132|The Sojourn at Rome]]|Midwayer Commission|1455}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|133. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 133|The Return from Rome]]|Midwayer Commission|1468}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|134. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 134|The Transition Years]]|Midwayer Commission|1483}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|135. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 135|John the Baptist]]|Midwayer Commission|1496}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|136. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 136|Baptism and the Forty Days]]|Midwayer Commission|1509}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|137. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 137|Tarrying Time in Galilee]]|Midwayer Commission|1524}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|138. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 138|Training the Kingdom's Messengers]]|Midwayer Commission|1538}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|139. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 139|The Twelve Apostles]]|Midwayer Commission|1548}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|140. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 140|The Ordination of the Twelve]]|Midwayer Commission|1568}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|141. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 141|Beginning the Public Work]]|Midwayer Commission|1587}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|142. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 142|The Passover at Jerusalem]]|Midwayer Commission|1596}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{TOC end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-c-c-1||{{sc|Paper}}|{{sc|Author}}|{{sc|Page}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|103. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 103|The Reality of Religious Experience]]|Melchizedek|1129}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|104. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 104|Growth of the Trinity Concept]]|Melchizedek|1143}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|105. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 105|Deity and Reality]]|Melchizedek|1152}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|106. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 106|Universe Levels of Reality]]|Melchizedek|1162}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|107. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 107|Origin and Nature of Thought Adjusters]]|Solitary Messenger|1176}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|108. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 108|Mission and Ministry of Thought Adjusters]]|Solitary Messenger|1185}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|109. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 109|Relation of Adjusters to Universe Creatures]]|Solitary Messenger|1195}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|110. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 110|Relation of Adjusters to Individual Mortals]]|Solitary Messenger|1203}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|111. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 111|The Adjuster and the Soul]]|Solitary Messenger|1215}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|112. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 112|Personality Survival]]|Solitary Messenger|1225}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|113. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 113|The Seraphic Guardians of Destiny]]|Chief of Seraphim|1241}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|114. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 114|Seraphic Planetary Government]]|Chief of Seraphim|1250}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|115. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 115|The Supreme Being]]|Mighty Messenger|1260}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|116. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 116|The Almighty Supreme]]|Mighty Messenger|1268}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|117. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 117|God the Supreme]]|Mighty Messenger|1278}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|118. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 118|Supreme and Ultimate—Time and Space]]|Mighty Messenger|1294}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|119. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 119|The Bestowals of Christ Michael]]|Chief of Evening Stars|1308}}

{{nop}}

{{TOC row c|4|{{ph/leveled|level=3|PART IV. [[The Urantia Book/Part 4|THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF JESUS]]}}}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|120. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 120|The Bestowal of Michael on Urantia]]|Mantutia Melchizedek|1323}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|121. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 121|The Times of Michael's Bestowal]]|Midwayer Commission|1332}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|122. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 122|Birth and Infancy of Jesus]]|Midwayer Commission|1344}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|123. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 123|The Early Childhood of Jesus]]|Midwayer Commission|1355}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|124. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 124|The Later Childhood of Jesus]]|Midwayer Commission|1366}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|125. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 125|Jesus at Jerusalem]]|Midwayer Commission|1377}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|126. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 126|The Two Crucial Years]]|Midwayer Commission|1386}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|127. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 127|The Adolescent Years]]|Midwayer Commission|1395}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|128. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 128|Jesus' Early Manhood]]|Midwayer Commission|1407}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|129. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 129|The Later Adult Life of Jesus]]|Midwayer Commission|1419}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|130. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 130|On the Way to Rome]]|Midwayer Commission|1427}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|131. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 131|The World's Religions]]|Midwayer Commission|1442}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|132. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 132|The Sojourn at Rome]]|Midwayer Commission|1455}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|133. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 133|The Return from Rome]]|Midwayer Commission|1468}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|134. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 134|The Transition Years]]|Midwayer Commission|1483}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|135. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 135|John the Baptist]]|Midwayer Commission|1496}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|136. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 136|Baptism and the Forty Days]]|Midwayer Commission|1509}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|137. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 137|Tarrying Time in Galilee]]|Midwayer Commission|1524}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|138. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 138|Training the Kingdom's Messengers]]|Midwayer Commission|1538}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|139. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 139|The Twelve Apostles]]|Midwayer Commission|1548}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|140. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 140|The Ordination of the Twelve]]|Midwayer Commission|1568}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|141. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 141|Beginning the Public Work]]|Midwayer Commission|1587}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|142. |[[The Urantia Book/Paper 142|The Passover at Jerusalem]]|Midwayer Commission|1596}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{TOC end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-c-c-1||{{sc|Paper}}|{{sc|Author}}|{{sc|Page}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|143.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 143|Going Through Samaria]]|Midwayer Commission|1607}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|144.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 144|At Gilboa and in the Decapolis]]|Midwayer Commission|1617}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|145.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 145|Four Eventful Days at Capernaum]]|Midwayer Commission|1628}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|146.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 146|First Preaching Tour of Galilee]]|Midwayer Commission|1637}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|147.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 147|The Interlude Visit to Jerusalem]]|Midwayer Commission|1647}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|148.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 148|Training Evangelists at Bethsaida]]|Midwayer Commission|1657}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|149.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 149|The Second Preaching Tour]]|Midwayer Commission|1668}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|150.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 150|The Third Preaching Tour]]|Midwayer Commission|1678}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|151.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 151|Tarrying and Teaching by the Seaside]]|Midwayer Commission|1688}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|152.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 152|Events Leading up to the Capernaum Crisis]]|Midwayer Commission|1698}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|153.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 153|The Crisis at Capernaum]]|Midwayer Commission|1707}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|154.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 154|Last Days at Capernaum]]|Midwayer Commission|1717}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|155.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 155|Fleeing Through Northern Galilee]]|Midwayer Commission|1725}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|156.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 156|The Sojourn at Tyre and Sidon]]|Midwayer Commission|1734}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|157.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 157|At Caesarea-Philippi]]|Midwayer Commission|1743}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|158.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 158|The Mount of Transfiguration]]|Midwayer Commission|1752}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|159.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 159|The Decapolis Tour]]|Midwayer Commission|1762}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|160.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 160|Rodan of Alexandria]]|Midwayer Commission|1772}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|161.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 161|Further Discussions with Rodan]]|Midwayer Commission|1783}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|162.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 162|At the Feast of Tabernacles]]|Midwayer Commission|1788}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|163.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 163|Ordination of the Seventy at Magadan]]|Midwayer Commission|1800}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|164.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 164|At the Feast of Dedication]]|Midwayer Commission|1809}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|165.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 165|The Perean Mission Begins]]|Midwayer Commission|1817}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|166.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 166|Last Visit to Northern Perea]]|Midwayer Commission|1825}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|167.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 167|The Visit to Philadelphia]]|Midwayer Commission|1833}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|168.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 168|The Resurrection of Lazarus]]|Midwayer Commission|1842}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|169.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 169|Last Teaching at Pella]]|Midwayer Commission|1850}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|170.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 170|The Kingdom of Heaven]]|Midwayer Commission|1858}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|171.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 171|On the Way to Jerusalem]]|Midwayer Commission|1867}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|172.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 172|Going into Jerusalem]]|Midwayer Commission|1878}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|173.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 173|Monday in Jerusalem]]|Midwayer Commission|1888}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|174.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 174|Tuesday Morning in the Temple]]|Midwayer Commission|1897}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|175.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 175|The Last Temple Discourse]]|Midwayer Commission|1905}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|176.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 176|Tuesday Evening on Mount Olivet]]|Midwayer Commission|1912}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|177.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 177|Wednesday, The Rest Day]]|Midwayer Commission|1920}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|178.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 178|Last Day at the Camp]]|Midwayer Commission|1929}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|179.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 179|The Last Supper]]|Midwayer Commission|1936}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|180.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 180|The Farewell Discourse]]|Midwayer Commission|1944}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|181.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 181|Final Admonitions and Warnings]]|Midwayer Commission|1953}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|182.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 182|In Gethsemane]]|Midwayer Commission|1963}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|183.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 183|The Betrayal and Arrest of Jesus]]|Midwayer Commission|1971}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|184.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 184|Before the Sanhedrin Court]]|Midwayer Commission|1978}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|185.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 185|The Trial Before Pilate]]|Midwayer Commission|1987}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|186.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 186|Just Before the Crucifixion]]|Midwayer Commission|1997}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|187.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 187|The Crucifixion]]|Midwayer Commission|2004}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|188.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 188|The Time of the Tomb]]|Midwayer Commission|2012}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|189.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 189|The Resurrection]]|Midwayer Commission|2020}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|190.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 190|Morontia Appearances of Jesus]]|Midwayer Commission|2029}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{TOC end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-c-c-1||{{sc|Paper}}|{{sc|Author}}|{{sc|Page}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|191.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 191|Appearances to the Apostles and Other Leaders]]|Midwayer Commission|2037}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|192.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 192|Appearances in Galilee]]|Midwayer Commission|2045}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|193.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 193|Final Appearances and Ascension]]|Midwayer Commission|2052}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|194.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 194|Bestowal of the Spirit of Truth]]|Midwayer Commission|2059}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|195.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 195|After Pentecost]]|Midwayer Commission|2069}}
{{TOC row 1-l-1-1|196.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 196|The Faith of Jesus]]|Midwayer Commission|2087}}
{{TOC end}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Works of Lord Byron (ed. Coleridge, Prothero) - Volume 2.djvu/203</title>
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{{block center/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;as far as Sunium (now Cape Colonna),&lt;ref name=&quot;page203&quot;&gt;In all Attica, if we except Athens itself and Marathon, there is no scene more interesting than Cape Colonna.{{ref|a}} To the antiquary and artist, sixteen columns are an inexhaustible source of observation and design; to the philosopher, the supposed scene of some of Plato's conversations will not be unwelcome; and the traveller will be struck with the beauty of the prospect over &quot;Isles that crown the Ægean deep:&quot; but, for an Englishman, Colonna has yet an additional interest, as the actual spot of [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]]{{ref|b}} shipwreck. Pallas and Plato are forgotten in the recollection of Falconer and Campbell:—

{{block center|{{shift left|&quot;Here in the dead of night, by Lonna's steep,{{ref|c}}|.4em}}&lt;br /&gt;
The seaman's cry was heard along the deep.&quot;}}

This temple of Minerva may be seen at sea from a great distance. In two journeys which I made, and one voyage to Cape Colonna, the view from either side, by land, was less striking than the approach from the isles. In our second land excursion, we had a narrow escape from a party of Mainotes, concealed in the caverns beneath. We were told afterwards, by one of their prisoners, subsequently ransomed, that they were deterred from attacking us by the appearance of my two Albanians: conjecturing very sagaciously, but falsely, that we had a complete guard of these Arnaouts at hand, they remained stationary, and thus saved our party, which was too small to have opposed any effectual&lt;/ref&gt; till he accompanied
us in our second excursion. However, his works, as far as&lt;!-- The following has been copied to the next page for correct rendering in the Main -- {{note|a}} a. [This must have taken place in 1811, after Hobhouse returned to England.—''Travels in Albania'', i. 373, ''note''.]&lt;br /&gt;
{{note|b}} b. [William Falconer (1732-1769), second mate of a vessel in the Levant trade, was wrecked between Alexandria and Venice. Only three of the crew survived. His poem, ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]'', was published in 1762. It was dedicated to the Duke of York, and through his intervention he was &quot;rated as a midshipman in the Royal Navy.&quot; Either as author or naval officer, he came to be on intimate terms with John Murray the first, who thought highly of his abilities, and offered him (October 16, 1768) a partnership in his new bookselling business in Fleet Street. In September, 1769, he embarked for India as purser of the ''Aurora'' frigate, which touched at the Cape, but never reached her destination. See ''Memoir'', by J. S. Clarke; ''The Shipwreck'', 1804, pp. viii.-xlvi.]&lt;br /&gt;
{{note|c}} c. {{block center|''Yes, at the dead of night, etc''.—
{{right|[''Pleasures of Hope'', lines 149, 150.]}}}} --&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{block center/e}}
{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Works of Lord Byron (ed. Coleridge, Prothero) - Volume 2.djvu/204</title>
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{{block center/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;they go, are most beautiful: but they are almost all unfinished. While he and his patrons confine themselves to tasting medals, appreciating cameos, sketching columns, and cheapening gems, their little absurdities are as harmless as insect or fox-hunting, maiden-speechifying, barouche-driving, or any such pastime; but when they carry away three or four ship-loads of the most valuable and massy relics that time and barbarism have left to the most injured and most celebrated of cities: when they destroy, in a vain attempt to tear down, those works which have been the admiration of ages, I know no motive which can excuse, no name which can designate, the perpetrators of this dastardly devastation. It was not the least of the crimes laid to the charge of Verres, that he had plundered Sicily, in the manner since imitated at Athens. The most unblushing impudence could hardly go farther than to affix the name of its plunderer to the walls of the Acropolis; while the wanton and useless defacement of the whole range of the basso-relievos, in one compartment of the temple, will never permit that name to be pronounced by an observer without execration.

On this occasion I speak impartially: I am not a collector or admirer of collections, consequently no rival; but I have some early prepossession in favour of Greece, and do not think the honour of England advanced by plunder, whether of India or Attica.

Another noble Lord [Aberdeen] has done better, because he has done less: but some others, more or less noble, yet &quot;all honourable men,&quot; have done ''best'', because, after a deal of excavation and execration, bribery to the Waywode, mining and countermining, they have done nothing at all. We had such ink-shed, and wine-shed, which almost ended&lt;ref follow=&quot;page203&quot;&gt;resistance. Colonna is no less a resort of painters than of pirates; there

{{block center|{{shift left|&quot;The hireling artist plants his paltry desk,|.4em}}&lt;br /&gt;
And makes degraded nature picturesque.&quot;
{{right|See Hodgson's ''Lady Jane Grey'', etc.{{ref|d}} [1809, p. 214].}}}}

But there Nature, with the aid of Art, has done that for herself. I was fortunate enough to engage a very superior German artist; and hope to renew my acquaintance with this and many other Levantine scenes, by the arrival of his performances.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- The following notes a, b &amp; c are brought over from the previous page for correct rendering in the Main --&gt;
{{note|a}} a. [This must have taken place in 1811, after Hobhouse returned to England.—''Travels in Albania'', i. 373, ''note''.]&lt;br /&gt;
{{note|b}} b. [[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|William Falconer]] (1732-1769), second mate of a vessel in the Levant trade, was wrecked between Alexandria and Venice. Only three of the crew survived. His poem, ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]'', was published in 1762. It was dedicated to the Duke of York, and through his intervention he was &quot;rated as a midshipman in the Royal Navy.&quot; Either as author or naval officer, he came to be on intimate terms with John Murray the first, who thought highly of his abilities, and offered him (October 16, 1768) a partnership in his new bookselling business in Fleet Street. In September, 1769, he embarked for India as purser of the ''Aurora'' frigate, which touched at the Cape, but never reached her destination. See ''Memoir'', by J. S. Clarke; ''The Shipwreck'', 1804, pp. viii.-xlvi.]&lt;br /&gt;
{{note|c}} c. {{block center|''Yes, at the dead of night, etc''.—
{{right|[''Pleasures of Hope'', lines 149, 150.]}}}}
{{note|d}} d. [The quotation is from Hodgson's &quot;Lines on a Ruined Abbey in a Romantic Country,&quot; ''vide ante'', Canto I., p. 20, ''note''.]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{block center/e}}
{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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 | title     = Proofreading milestones
 | class     = X
 | subclass1 = P
 | reviewed  = yes
 | shortcut  = 
 | notes     = A list of milestones in proofreading of indexes pages in terms of index validation time and date. For example,  [[Frontiers]] by [[Author:George Curzon|George Curzon]] was the first index page to be marked as validated after all of its content pages had also been proofread and validated.
}}

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; {{table style|float}}
! {{table style|width:2em}} | # || {{table style|width:5em}} | Date validated || {{table style|width:4em}} | Time validated || Work || Index || Year || Author
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 1
| 2009-12-18 || 14:00:47 || [[Frontiers]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Frontiers.djvu]]}} || 1907 || [[Author:George Curzon|George Curzon]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 50
| 2010-01-21 || 17:16:55 || [[Charles von Hügel]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Charles von Hügel (1903 memoir).djvu]]}} || 1903 || [[Author:Anatole von Hügel|Anatole von Hügel]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 100
| 2010-02-27 || 11:24:31 || [[The Origin of the Knowledge of Right and Wrong/Book reviews/International Journal of Ethics|Review of ''The Origin of the Knowledge of Right and Wrong'']] || {{smaller|[[Index:Review of Franz Brentano's The Origin of the Knowledge of Right and Wrong.djvu]]}} || 1903 || [[Author:George Edward Moore|George Edward Moore]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 150
| 2010-06-09 || 01:18:37 || [[Tales (Poe)|Tales]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Tales, Edgar Allan Poe, 1846.djvu]]}}  || 1846 || [[Author:Edgar Allan Poe|Edgar Allan Poe]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 200
| 2010-10-21 || 21:30:52 || [[United Nations Security Council Resolution 1840]] || {{smaller|[[Index:UN Security Council Resolution 1840.djvu]]}} || 2008 || [[Portal:United Nations|United Nations]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 250
| 2010-11-26 || 00:12:28 || [[Flatland (first edition)]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Flatland, a Romance of Many Dimensions (1884).djvu]]}} || 1884 || [[Author:Edwin Abbott Abbott|Edwin Abbott Abbott]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 300
| 2011-01-14 || 23:51:54 || [[Little Red Riding Hood: an entirely new edition with new pictures by an eminent artist|Little Red Riding Hood]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Little Red Riding Hood.djvu]]}} || 1843 || [[Author:Felix Summerly|Felix Summerly]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 350
| 2011-05-17 || 08:44:58 || [[Social Justice without Socialism]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Social Justice without Socialism.djvu]]}} || 1914 || [[Author:John Bates Clark|John Bates Clark]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 400
| 2011-07-16 || 12:50:51 || [[Your teenage children and smoking]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Your teenage children and smoking.djvu]]}} || 1964 || United States Department of Health, Education, and Welfare
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 450
| 2011-08-02 || 04:12:09 || [[Constitution Amendment Act, 1977]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Constitution Amendment Act 1977.djvu]]}} || 1977 || [[Portal:Parliament of South Africa|Parliament of South Africa]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 500
| 2011-09-02 || 21:40:09 || [[Recognition of Customary Marriages Act, 1998]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Recognition of Customary Marriages Act 1998 from Government Gazette.djvu]]}} || 1997 || [[Portal:Parliament of South Africa|Parliament of South Africa]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 550
| 2011-12-13 || 18:35:10 || [[The prophetic books of William Blake, Milton]] || {{smaller|[[Index:The prophetic books of William Blake, Milton.djvu]]}} || 1907 || [[Author:William Blake|William Blake]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 600
| 2012-02-02 || 01:03:19 || [[Alterations to Winston Churchill to Franklin D. Roosevelt (December 7, 1940)]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Alterations to Winston Churchill to Franklin D. Roosevelt - NARA - 194814.jpg]]}} || 1940 || [[Author:Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill|Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 650
| 2012-04-01 || 10:06:40 || [[Charters of the Weehawken ferry company]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Charters of the Weehawken ferry company.djvu]]}} || 1853 || Weehawken Ferry Company
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 700
| 2012-07-17 || 18:53:52 || [[A Wayfarer in China]] || {{smaller|[[Index:A Wayfarer in China.djvu]]}} || 1913 || [[Author:Elizabeth Kimball Kendall|Elizabeth Kimball Kendall]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 750
| 2012-08-19 || 08:45:15 || [[Independent Broadcasting Legislative Proposals]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Independent Broadcasting Legislative Proposals.pdf]]}} || 1979 || [[Author:John Biffen|John Biffen]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 800
| 2012-09-09 || 13:22:53 || [[Copy of Winston Churchill to Franklin D. Roosevelt (September 24, 1940)]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Winston Churchill to Franklin D. Roosevelt - NARA - 194828.jpg]]}} || 1940 || [[Author:Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill|Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 850
| 2012-10-14 || 02:47:37 || [[A Geologist's Paradise]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Walcott A Geologists Paradise.djvu]]}} || 1911 || [[Author:Charles Doolittle Walcott|Charles Doolittle Walcott]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 900
| 2012-12-06 || 01:59:02 || [[United States – Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967: A Study Prepared by the Department of Defense]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Pentagon-Papers-Part II.djvu]]}} || 1967 || United States Department of Defence
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 950
| 2013-01-27 || 02:46:17 || [[Mr. Punch's Book of Sports]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Mr. Punch's Book of Sports.djvu]]}} || 1910 || [[Portal:Punch|Punch]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 1000
| 2013-04-19 || 09:35:15 || [[Address on the opening of the Free Public Library of Ballarat East, on Friday, 1st. January, 1869]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Address on the opening of the Free Public Library of Ballarat East, on Friday, 1st. January, 1869.djvu]]}} || 1869 || [[Author:Redmond Barry|Redmond Barry]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 1100
| 2013-08-03 || 09:21 || [[Harbor Blaze]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Harbor Blaze.ogv]]}} || 1959 || [[Portal:Universal Newsreel|Universal Newsreel]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 1200
| 2013-10-31 || 19:00 || [[On the tendency of species to cause varieties]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Onthetendencyofspecies.pdf]]}} || 1858 || [[Author:Charles Darwin|Charles Darwin]] &amp; [[Author:Alfred Russell Wallace|Alfred Wallace]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 1300
| 2014-01-31 || 09:10 || [[Deserted Tenements Act 1817]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Deserted Tenements Act 1817(ukpga 18170052 en).pdf]]}} || 1817 || Parliament of the United Kingdom
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 1400
| 2014-05-25 || 03:33 || [[The Goddesses in Congress at Olympus-on-Spree]] || {{smaller|[[Index:The Goddesses in Congress on Olympus-on-Spree.djvu]]}} || 1878 || {{anon}}
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 1500
| 2014-10-19 || 23:02 || [[The Education and Employment of Women]] || {{smaller|[[Index:The Education and Employment of Women.djvu]]}} || 1868 || [[Author:Josephine Elizabeth Grey Butler|Josephine Elizabeth Grey Butler]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 1600
| 2015-02-14 || 13:04 || [[A Song of the English (1909)]] || {{smaller|[[Index:A song of the English (1909).djvu]]}} || 1909 || [[Author:Rudyard Kipling|Rudyard Kipling]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 1700
| 2015-06-17 || 15:00 || [[Notes by an Oxford Chiel]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Carroll - Notes by an Oxford Chiel.djvu]]}} || 1865–1874 || [[Author:Lewis Carroll|Lewis Carroll]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 1800
| 2015-08-16 || 09:27 || [[Physical Geography of the Sea and its Meteorology]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Physical Geography of the Sea and its Meteorology.djvu]]}} || 1864 || [[Author:Matthew Fontaine Maury|Matthew Fontaine Maury]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 1900
| 2016-01-12 || 10:45 || [[Women are people!]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Alice Miller (1917) Women are people (Internet Archive).djvu]]}} || 1917 || [[Author:Alice Duer Miller|Alice Duer Miller]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 2000
| 2016-05-02 || 21:38 || [[Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm (Wiggin)]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm (1903).djvu]]}} || 1903 || [[Author:Kate Douglas Wiggin|Kate Douglas Wiggin]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 2100
| 2016-08-05 || 08:28 || [[An address on compulsory education]] || {{smaller|[[Index:An address on compulsory education.djvu]]}} || 1871 || [[Author:Richard Gardner|Richard Gardner]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 2200
| 2016-11-24 || 05:49 || [[Iolanthe]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Iolanthe lib.djvu]]}} || 1882 || [[Author:William Schwenck Gilbert|William Schwenck Gilbert]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 2300
| 2017-03-20 || 14:48 || [[Cabinet Memorandum. Policy in regard to Malaya and Borneo. Memorandum by the Secretary of State for the Colonies. 29 August 1945]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Cabinet Memoranda 29 August 1945 (cab-129-1-cp-133).pdf]]}} || 1945 || Government of the United Kingdom
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 2500
| 2017-05-23 || 14:51 || [[Aviation Accident Report: United Air Lines Flight 12]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Aviation Accident Report, United Air Lines Flight 12.pdf]]}} || 1942 || Civil Aeronautics Board
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 2600
| 2017-07-11 || 07:02 || [[Passage of an Iron Rod Through the Head]] || {{smaller|[[Index:Harlow BMSJ1848 Passage of an Iron Rod through the Head.pdf]]}} || 1848 || Boston Medical and Surgical Journal
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 2700
| 2018-01-06 || 02:18 || [[The Holly &amp; ivy (1818)]] || {{smaller|[[Index:The Holly and Ivy broadside.jpg]]}} || 1818 || H. Wadsworth, Publishers
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 2800
| 2018-06-03 || 04:52 || [[Proceedings of the Astronomical Society of the Pacific/The Moon|The Moon]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:The moon (1917).djvu]] || 1917 || [[Author:Robert Grant Aitken|Robert Grant Aitken]]
|-
! {{table style|right}} | 2900
| 2018-09-17 || 05:57 || [[Views of Ottawa]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Views of Ottawa.djvu]] || 1884 || Publisher: Jas. Hope &amp; Co.
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 3000
| 2019-01-17 || 23:39 || [[Amazing Stories/Volume 01/Number 02]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Amazing Stories Volume 01 Number 02.djvu]] || 1926 || Editor: [[Author:Hugo Gernsback|Hugo Gernsback]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 3100
| 2019-03-16 || 10:20 || [[Cartoons by Bradley]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Cartoons by Bradley.djvu]] || 1917 || [[Author:Luther Daniels Bradley|Luther Daniels Bradley]] &amp; [[Author:Henry Justin Smith|Henry J. Smith]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 3200
| 2019-04-21 || 09:19 || [[The Trial and Execution of the Sparrow for Killing Cock Robin]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:TrialofSparrow.djvu]] || undated || Anonymous author
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 3300
| 2019-09-08 || 05:58 || [[The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy (1846)]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Newton's Principia (1846).djvu]] || 1846 || [[Author:Isaac Newton|Isaac Newton]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 3400
| 2019-11-16 || 10:53 || [[Poems of Felicia Hemans in The Pledge of Friendship, 1828]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Felicia Hemans in The Pledge of Friendship 1828.pdf]] || 1827 || [[Author:Felicia Hemans|Felicia Hemans]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 3500
| 2020-04-05 || 12:12 || [[An account of the dreadful Accident and great loss of lives which occurred at Kirkcaldy, on Sunday the 15th June, 1828]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Account of the dreadful accident and great loss of lives which occurred at Kirkcaldy, on Sunday the 15th June, 1828.pdf]] || 1828 || Anonymous author
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 3600
| 2020-05-20 || 18:30 || [[Agrarian Justice]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Agrarian Justice facsimile.pdf]] || 1797 || [[Author:Thomas Paine|Thomas Paine]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 3700
| 2020-07-04 || 10:53 || [[Poems of Felicia Hemans in The Court Magazine Volume III 1833]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Felicia Hemans in The Court Magazine Volume III 1833.pdf]] || 1833 || [[Author:Felicia Hemans|Felicia Hemans]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 3800
| 2020-07-31 || 08:07 || [[Highland laddie (3)]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Highland laddie (3).pdf]] || 1820 || Anonymous author
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 3900
| 2020-08-23 || 13:22 || [[Prevention of Insults to National Honour Act, 1971]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Prevention of Insults to National Honour Act, 1971 on Gazette of India.pdf]] || 1971 || Parliament of India
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 4000
| 2020-09-02 || 13:22 || [[Shepherd Lubin and his dog Tray]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Shepherd Lubin and his dog Tray.pdf]] || 1799 || Anonymous author
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 4100
| 2020-09-19 || 10:21 || [[Sair sair was my heart (1)]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Sair sair was my heart (1).pdf]] || n.d. || Anonymous author
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 4200
| 2020-10-07 || 00:30 || [[True relation of the surprising foreknowledge and wonderful predictions of the Rev. Mr. Allan Logan]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:True relation of the surprising foreknowledge and wonderful predictions of the Rev. Mr. Allan Logan.pdf]] || 1790 || Anonymous author
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 4300
| 2020-11-19 || 13:18 || [[The Buchanshire tragedy, or, Sir James the Ross]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Buchanshire tragedy, or, Sir James the Ross (4).pdf]] || n.d. || Anonymous author
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 4400
| 2020-11-23 || 23:14 || [[History of Jack the giant killer]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:History of Jack the giant killer.pdf]] || 1840 || Anonymous author
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 4500
| 2020-11-27 || 11:33 || [[The Wife of Beith (1840s)]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Wife of Beith (5).pdf]] || 1840s || Anonymous author
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 4600
| 2020-12-08 || 12:00 || [[Heliogabulus's magic tablets]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Heliogabulus's magic tablets.pdf]] || n.d. || Anonymous author
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 4700
| 2021-01-12 || 04:37 || [[Uncle Abner: Master of Mysteries]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:Post - Uncle Abner (Appleton, 1918).djvu]] || 1918 || [[Author:Melville Davisson Post|Melville Davisson Post]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 4800
| 2021-02-22 || 12:10 || [[The League of Nations and Labour]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:The League of Nations and labour.djvu]] || 1918 || [[Author:Arthur Henderson|Arthur Henderson]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 4900
| 2021-04-08 || 17:30 || [[History of the life &amp; sufferings of the Rev. John Welch]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:History of the life &amp; sufferings of the Rev. John Welch (1).pdf]] || n.d. || Anonymous author
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 5000
| 2021-04-16 || 07:11 || [[American Rescue Plan Fact Sheet: Impact on Kentucky]] ||{{ts|sm}}| [[Index:American Rescue Plan Fact Sheet - Impacts on Kentucky.pdf]] || 2021 || [[Author:Joseph Robinette Biden|Joe Biden]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 5500
| 2022-01-16 || 12:49 || [[A Biographical Dictionary of the Celebrated Women of Every Age and Country]] ||{{ts|sm}}|[[Index:A Biographical Dictionary of the Celebrated Women of Every Age and Country (1804).djvu]] || 1804 || [[Author:Mary Matilda Betham|Mary Matilda Betham]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 6000
| 2023-07-31 || 04:22 || [[America a Prophecy]] ||{{ts|sm}}|[[Index:America a Prophecy.djvu]] || 1793 || [[Author:William Blake|William Blake]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 6500
| 2024-09-11 || 21:03 || [[The authentic and genuine history of the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi, New Zealand, February 5 and 6, 1840]] ||{{ts|sm}}|[[Index:The authentic and genuine history of the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi, New Zealand, February 5 and 6, 1840.pdf]] || 1890 || [[Author:William Colenso|William Colenso]]
|-
! {{ts|right}} | 7000
| 2025-06-13 || 03:35 || [[The President's Proclamation]] || {{ts|sm}}|[[Index:The President's Proclamation (Proctor, 1963).jpg]] || 1863 || [[Author:Edna Dean Proctor|Edna Dean Proctor]]
|}

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 | previous = [[../Merchant/|The Marchantes Tale]]
 | section  = Notes on the Squieres Tale
 | next     = [[../Franklin/|The Frankeleyns Tale]]
 | notes    =  
}}

{{pagenum|370}}


{{c|&gt;&gt; [[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Squire|Text of the Squieres Tale]]}}

{{c|NOTES TO GROUP F.}}

{{c|{{larger|NOTES TO THE SQUIERES TALE.}}}}

{{c|'''The Squieres Tale.'''}}

1. There is nothing to link this tale with the preceding one; hence it begins a new Group. In many MSS. (including E.) it follows the preceding Epilogue without any break. In other MSS. it follows the Man of Law's Tale; but that is the wrong place for it. See note to B. 1165; also vol. iii. p. 462.

2. An allusion to Prol. l. 97, unless (which is quite as probable) the passage in the Prologue was written afterwards.

9. ''Sarray'', Sarai. This place has been identified, past all doubt, by Colonel Yule in his edition of Marco Polo's Travels, vol. i. p. 5, and vol. ii. p. 424. The modern name is Tzarev, near Sarepta. Sarepta is easily found on any good map of Russia by following the course of the Volga from its mouth ''upwards''. At first this backward course runs N. W. till we have crossed the province of Astrakhan, when it makes a sudden bend, at Sarepta and Tsaritzin. Tsarev is now a place of no importance, but the ancient Sarai was so well known, that the Caspian Sea was sometimes named from it; thus it is called 'the sea of Sarain' in Marco Polo, ed. Yule, ii. 424; 'the sea of Sarra' in the Catalan map of 1375; and Mare Seruanicum, or the Sea of Shirwan, by Vincent of Beauvais. Thynne, in his Animadversions on Speight's Chaucer, speaks to the same effect, and says of 'Sara' that it is 'a place yet well knowen, and bordering vppon the lake Mare Caspium.' Sarai was the place where Batu Khan, the grandson of Gengis Khan, held his court. Batu, with his Mongolian followers known as the ''Golden Horde'', had established an empire in Kaptchak, or Kibzak, now S.&amp;nbsp;E. Russia, about {{asc|A.D.}} 1224. The Golden Horde further invaded Russia, and made Alexander Newski grand-duke of it, {{asc|A.D.}} 1252. (See ''Golden Horde'' in Haydn's Dictionary of Dates.)

Chaucer has here confused two accounts. There were two celebrated Khans, both grandsons of Gengis Khan, who were ruling about the same time. Batu Khan held his court at Sarai, and ruled over the S. E. of Russia; but the Great Khan, named Kublai, held his court at Cambaluc, the modern Pekin, in a still more magnificent manner. And it is easy to see that, although Chaucer ''names'' Sarai, his description really ''applies to'' Cambaluc. See vol. iii. pp. 471-2. {{pagenum|371}}

10. ''Russye'', Russia; invaded by the Golden Horde, as just explained. The end of the Tartar influence in Russia was in the year 1481, when Svenigorod, general of Ivan III., defeated them at the battle of Bielawisch. In the following year Ivan assumed the title of czar.

12. ''Cambinskan''; so in all seven MSS. (Six-text and Harleian), except that in the Ellesmere MS. it more resembles ''Cambyuskan''. Yet Tyrwhitt prints ''Cambuscan'', probably in deference to Milton, who, however, certainly accents the word wrongly, viz. on the second syllable; Il Penseroso, l. 110. Thynne, in his Animadversions on Speight's Chaucer, speaking of the year 1240, says—'whiche must be in the tyme of the fyrst Tartariane emperor called ''Caius canne'', beinge, I suppose, he whome Chaucer namethe ''Cambiuscan'', for so ys [it in] the written copies, such affynytye is there betwene those two names.' Now, although the celebrated Gengis Khan died probably in 1227, the allusion to the 'fyrst Tartariane emperor' is clear; so that Thynne makes the forms ''Cambius'', ''Caius'' (perhaps miswritten for Cāius, i.&amp;nbsp;e. Ca''m''ius) and ''Gengis'' all equivalent. But this is the very result for which Colonel Yule has found authority, as explained in vol. iii. p. 471; to which the reader is referred. It is there explained that Chaucer has again confused two accounts; for, whilst he ''names'' Gengis Khan (the first 'Grand Khan'), his description really ''applies'' to Kublai Khan, his grandson, the celebrated 'Grand Khan' described by Marco Polo.

18. ''lay'', religious profession or belief. 'King Darie swor by his ''lay''&amp;apos;: King Alisaunder, ed. Weber, l. 1325. From A.&amp;nbsp;F. ''lei'', law. See ''lei'' in Stratmann.

20. This line scans ill as it stands in most MSS. Tyrwhitt and Wright insert ''and'', which gives ''two'' accented 'ands'—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And pí | tous ánd | just ánd | alwéy | ylíche.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

The Hengwrt MS. has—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Pietous and Iust, and euere-moore yliche,
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

which, otherwise spelt, becomes—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Pitous and Iust, and ever-more y-liche—
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

and this is the reading which I have adopted in the text. However, I have since observed that Chaucer twice makes ''pi-e-tous'' trisyllabic, viz. in Troil. iii. 1444, v. 451; and the Hengwrt MS. has the same spelling here. The common reading, with this alteration, becomes quite right. That is, we may read—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And piëtous and Iust, alwey y-liche.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

22. ''centre''; often used in the sense of a fulcrum or pivot, or point of extreme stability. Cf. Milton, Par. Reg. iv. 533—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'Proof against all temptation, as a rock&lt;/span&gt;
Of adamant, ''and, as a centre, firm''.'
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

The old astronomy supposed the centre of the earth to be the ''fixed'' centre of the universe.

30. Tyrwhitt inserts ''sone'' after ''eldeste''; fortunately, it is not in the {{pagenum|372}} MSS. ''Whichë'' is a dissyllable, the ''e'' denoting the plural form. The words ''th' eldest&amp;apos;'' form but two syllables, the ''e''&amp;apos;s being elided; but we may fairly preserve the ''e'' in ''highte'' (cf. l. 33) from elision, for the greater emphasis, by a short pause; and we then have a perfect line—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Of which | e th' el | dest' high | te—Al | garsyf.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

31. ''Cambalo.'' I have no doubt that this name was suggested by the ''Cambaluc'' of Marco Polo. See vol. iii. p. 472.

39. ''longing for'', belonging to. Cf. ''longen'', Kn. Ta. 1420 (A. 2278).

44. ''I deme'', I suppose. This looks as if Chaucer had read some account of a festival made by the Grand Khan on ''one'' of his birthdays, from which he inferred that he ''always'' held such a feast every year; as, indeed, was the case. See vol. iii. p. 473.

45. ''He leet don cryen'', he caused (men) to have the feast cried. The use of both ''leet'' and ''don'' is remarkable; cf. E. 523. He gave his orders to his officers, and they took care that the proclamation was made.

47. It is not clear ''why'' Chaucer hit upon this day in particular. Kublai's birthday was in September, but perhaps Chaucer noted that the White Feast was on New Year's day, which he took to mean the vernal equinox, or some day near it. The day, however, is well defined. The 'last Idus' is the very day of the Ides, i.&amp;nbsp;e. March 15. The sun entered Aries, according to Chaucer (Treatise on the Astrolabe, ii. 1. 4) on March 12, at the vernal equinox; and, as a degree answers to a day very nearly, would be in the ''first'' degree of Aries on the 12th, in the ''second'' on the 13th, in the ''third'' on the 14th, in the ''fourth'' on the 15th, and in the ''fifth'' (or at the end of the ''fourth'') on the 16th, as Chaucer most expressly says below; see note to l. 386. The sign Aries was said, in astrology, to be the ''exaltation'' of the Sun, or that sign in which the Sun had most influence for good or ill. In particular, the 19th degree of Aries, for some mysterious reason, was selected as the Sun's exaltation, when most exactly reckoned. Chaucer says, then, that the Sun was in the sign of Aries, in the fourth degree of that sign, and therefore nigh (and approaching to) the 19th degree, or his special degree of exaltation. Besides this, the poet says the sun was in the 'face' of Mars, and in the mansion of Mars; for &amp;apos;''his'' mansioun' in l. 50 means ''Mars's'' mansion. This is exactly in accordance with the astrology of the period. Each sign, such as Aries, was said to contain 30 degrees, or 3 ''faces''; a ''face'' being 10 degrees. The first face of Aries (degrees 1-10) was called the face of Mars, the second (11-20) the face of the Sun, the third (21-30) that of Venus. Hence the sun, being in the fourth degree, was in Mars's ''face''. Again, every planet had its (so-called) ''mansion'' or ''house''; whence Aries was called the mansion of Mars, Taurus that of Venus, Gemini that of Mercury, &amp;c. See Chaucer's Astrolabe, in vol. iii. p. lxxviii; or Johannis Hispalensis Isagoge in Astrologiam, which gives all the technical terms.

50. ''Martes'' is a genitive from the nom. ''Mart.'' or ''Marte'' (A. 2021), which is itself formed, as usual, from the Latin acc. ''Martem''. {{pagenum|373}}

51. In the old astrology, different qualities are ascribed to the different signs. Thus Aries is described as ''choleric and fiery'' in MS. Trin. Coll. Cam. R. 15. 18, tract 3, p. 11. So, too, Tyrwhitt quotes from the Calendrier des Bergers that Aries is 'chault et sec,' i.&amp;nbsp;e. hot and dry.

53. ''agayn'', against, opposite to. So also in Kn. Ta. 651 (A. 1509).

54. ''What for''; cf. Mod. Eng. ''what with''. See Kn. Tale, 595 (A. 1453).

59. ''deys'', raised platform, as at English feasts. But this is in Marco Polo too; see vol. iii. p. 473. Cf. Kn. Tale, l. 1342 (A. 2200); and note to Prol. l. 370.

63. In a similar indirect manner, Chaucer describes feasts, &amp;c. elsewhere: see Kn. Ta. 1339 (A. 2197); Man of Lawes Tale, B. 701-707. And Spenser imitates him; F.&amp;nbsp;Q. i. 12. 14; v. 3. 3.

67. ''sewes'', seasoned broths. &amp;apos;''Sewes'' and potages'; Babees Book, ed. Furnivall, p. 151, l. 523; cf. p. 149, l. 509.

68. Mr. Wright's note on the line is—'It is hardly necessary to observe that ''swans'' were formerly eaten at table, and considered among the choicest ornaments of the festive board. Tyrwhitt informs us that at the intronization of Archbp. Nevil, 6 Edward iv, there were &quot;Heronshawes iiijc.&quot; [i.&amp;nbsp;e. 400]; Leland's Collectanea, vi. 2: and that at another feast in 1530 we read of &quot;16 ''Heronsews'', every one 12''d''&quot;; Peck's Desiderata Curiosa, ii. 12.' ''Heronsew'' is derived from A.&amp;nbsp;F. ''heronceau'', variant of ''heroncel''. Godefroy gives ''herouncel'', from the Liber Custumarum, i. 304 (14 Edw. II.), and the pl. ''heroncaulx'' in an account dated 1330. Cotgrave only has 'Haironneau, a young heron,' and 'Hairon, a heron, herne, ''herneshaw''.' Halliwell quotes 'Ardeola, an ''hearnesew''&amp;apos; from Elyot's Dict. 1559, and the form ''herunsew'' from Reliquiae Antiquae, i. 88. Certainly ''heronsewe'' is the name of a bird, not of a dish, as some have guessed, by comparing the ''sewes'' in l. 67. In fact, the word ''heronsew'' (for heron) is still used in Swaledale, Yorkshire. And in Hazlitt's old Plays (The Disobedient Child), vol. ii. p. 282, we have—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'There must be also pheasant and swan;&lt;/span&gt;
There must be ''heronsew'', partridge, and quail.'
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

See the quotations in Nares; also Notes and Queries, 1st Ser. iii. 450, 507; iv. 76; vii. 13; Babees Book, ed. Furnivall, p. 152, l. 539. Cf. ''handsaw'', for ''hernshaw'', in Hamlet, ii. 2. ''Heroncel'', or ''-ceu'', or ''-ceau'', is simply the diminutive form; so also, ''lioncel'', or ''lionçeau'', as a diminutive of ''lion''.

70. ''som mete''; viz. 'horses, dogs, and Pharaoh's rats.' See vol. iii. p. 474.

73. ''pryme''; the word ''prime'' seems to mean, in Chaucer, the first quarter of the day, reckoned from 6 {{smaller|A.M.}} to 6 {{smaller|P.M.}}; and more particularly, the ''end'' of that period, i.&amp;nbsp;e. 9 {{smaller|A.M.}} In the Nonne Prestes Tale, B. 4387, the cock crew at ''prime'', or 9 {{smaller|A.M.}} So here, the Squire says it is 9 o'clock, and he must proceed quickly with his story. The word is used in different senses by different writers. {{pagenum|374}}

75. ''firste'', first design or purpose. I believe this reading is right. MS. Harl. has ''purpos'', which will not scan: unless ''my'' be omitted, as in Tyrwhitt, though that MS. retains ''my''. MSS. Cp. Ln. insert ''purpos'' as well as ''firste'', making the line too long: whilst Hn. Cm. Pt. agree with the text here given, from MS. E.

76. The second syllable in ''after'' is rapidly pronounced, and ''thridde'' is a dissyllable.

78. ''thinges'', pieces of music. Minstrelsy at feasts was common; cf. Man of Lawes Tale, B. 705; March. Tale, E. 1715.

80. The incident of a man ''riding'' into the hall is nothing uncommon. Thus we have, in the Percy Folio MS. ii. 486, the line—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'The one came ''ryding into the hall''.'&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

Warton observes—'See a fine romantic story of a Comte de Macon who, while revelling in his hall with many knights, is suddenly alarmed by the entrance of a gigantic figure of a black man, mounted on a black steed. This terrible stranger, without receiving any obstruction from guards or gates, rides directly forward to the high table, and, with an imperious tone, orders the count to follow him—Nic. Gillos. Chron. ann. 1120.' Alexander rode into a hall up to the high table, according to the romance, ed. Weber, l. 1083. See also Warton's Obs. on the Fairy Queen, p. 202; the Ballad of King Estmere; and Stowe's Survey of London, p. 387, ed. 1599. In Scott's Rokeby, Bertram ''rides'' into a church.

81. ''stede of bras'', &amp;c. See note to I. 209, and vol. iii. pp. 465, 475.

95. Sir Gawain, nephew to king Arthur, according to the British History which goes by the name of Geoffrey of Monmouth, is always upheld as a model of courtesy in the French romances and the English translations of them. He is often contrasted with Sir Kay, who was equally celebrated for churlishness. See the Percy Folio MS.; Sir Gawain, ed. by Sir F. Madden; Sir Gawain and the Grene Knight, ed. by Dr. Morris; the Morte D'Arthur, &amp;c. Cf. Rom. Rose, 2205-12.

103. ''Accordant'', according. The change from the Fr. ''-ant'' to the common Eng. ''-ing'' should be noted.—M.

106. ''style'', stile. Such puns are not common in Chaucer; cf. E. 1148.—M.

116. ''day naturel.'' In his Treatise on the Astrolabe, pt. ii. c. 7 (see vol. iii. p. 194), Chaucer explains that the day ''artificial'' is the time from sunrise to sunset, which varies; to which he adds—'but the ''day natural'', that is to seyn 24 houres, is the revolucioun of the equinoxial with as moche partie of the zodiak as the sonne of his propre moevinge passeth in the mene whyle.' See note to B. 2.

122. ''the air'', pronounced ''th'air'', as usual with Chaucer; see D. 1939.

129. ''wayted'', watched; alluding to the care with which the maker watched for the moment when the stars were in a propitious position, according to the old belief in astrology.

131. ''seel'', seal. Mr. Wright notes that 'the making and arrangement {{pagenum|375}} of seals was one of the important operations of medieval magic, and treatises on this subject are found in MSS.' He refers to MS. Arundel, no. 295, fol. 265. ''Solomon's seal'' is still commemorated in the name of a flower.

132. ''mirour.'' For some account of this, see vol. iii. p. 476, and note to l. 231.

137. ''over al this'', besides all this. Elsewhere ''over-al'' is a compound word, meaning ''everywhere''; as in Prol. 216.—M.

150. Compare Tale xv (The Ravens) in the Seven Sages, ed. Weber, about the child who understood the language of all birds.

154. ''and whom'', &amp;c., and to whom it will do good, or operate as a remedy; alluding to the virtues attributed to many herbs. So Spenser, F.&amp;nbsp;Q. i. 2. 10—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
{{gap|7.15em}}'O who can tell
The hidden power of herbes, and might of magicke spell!'
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

162. ''with the platte'', with the flat side of it; see l. 164. Cf. Troil. iv. 927.

171. ''Stant'', stands; contracted from ''standeth''; so also in l. 182. Cf. ''sit'' for ''sitteth'' in l. 179, ''hit'' for ''hideth'' in l. 512, and note to E. 1151.

184. 'By means of any machine furnished with a windlass or a pulley.' The modern ''windlass'' looks like a compound of ''wind'' and ''lace'', but really stands for ''windel-as'', variant of the form ''windas'' here used. The confusion would be facilitated by the fact that there was another form ''windlas'' (probably from ''wind'' and ''lace'') with a different meaning, viz. that of a circuitous way or path; see note to Hamlet, ii. 1. 65 (Clar. Press). In the Promptorium Parvulorum, our word is spelt both ''wyndlas'' and ''wyndas''; p. 529. The Mid. E. ''windas'' may have been derived from the Low-German directly, or more probably from the Old French, which has both ''guindas'' and ''windas''. The meaning and derivation are clearly shewn by the Du. ''windas'', which means a winding-axle or capstan, from the sb. ''as'', an axle; so, too, the Icel. ''vindâss''. In [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]] [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]], canto 1, note 3, the word ''windlass'' is used in the sense of capstan.

190. ''gauren'', gaze, stare. Used again by Chaucer, A. 3827, B. 3559, and in Troil. and Cres. ii. 1157 (vol. ii. p. 225). In the Clerkes Tale (E. 1003), he has ''gazed''. Mr. Wedgwood is perhaps right in considering ''gaze'' and ''gaure'' (also spelt ''gare'') as mere variations of the same word. Cf. the adj. ''garish'', i.&amp;nbsp;e. staring, in Milton, Il Pens. 141. For the occasional change of ''s'' to ''r'', see my Principles of Eng. Etymology, i. 379.

''gauring'', i.&amp;nbsp;e. stupor, occurs in Batman upon Bartholomè, lib. vii. c. 7.

193. ''Lumbardye'', Lombardy, formerly celebrated for horses. Tyrwhitt quotes from a patent in Rymer, 2 Edw. II—'De dextrariis in ''Lumbardiâ'' emendis,' i.&amp;nbsp;e. of horses to be bought in Lombardy.

195. ''Poileys'', Apulian. Apulia was called ''Poille'' or ''Poile'' in Old French, and even in Middle English; the phrase 'king of ''Poile''&amp;apos; occurs in the Seven Sages (ed. Weber), l. 2019. It was celebrated for {{pagenum|376}} its horses. Tyrwhitt quotes from MS. James vi. 142 (Bodleian Library), a passage in which Richard, archbishop of Armagh, in the fourteenth century, has the words—'nec mulus Hispaniae, nec ''dextrarius Apuliae'', nec repedo Æthiopiae, nec elephantus Asiae, nec camelus Syriae.' Chaucer ascribes strength and size to the horses of Lombardy, and high breeding to those of Apulia.

200. ''goon'', i.&amp;nbsp;e. move, go about, have motion.

201. ''of Fairye'', of fairy origin, magical. I do not subscribe to Warton's opinion (Obs. on Faerie Queene, p. 86) that this necessarily means that it was 'the work of the devil.' Cf. the same expression in Piers Pl. B. prol. 6.

203. Compare the Latin proverb—'quot homines, tot sententiae.' See Hazlitt's Eng. Proverbs, pp. 340, 437. A good epigram on this proverb is given in Camden's Remaines concerning Britaine, ed. 1657, sig. Gg.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'So many heads, so many wits—fie, fie!&lt;/span&gt;
Is't not a shame for Proverbs thus to lie?
My selfe, though my acquaintance be but small,
Know many heads that have ''no wit at all''.'
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

207. ''the Pegasee'', Pegasus. In the margin of MSS. E. Hn. Hl. is written 'i. equs Pegaseus,' meaning 'id est, equus Pegaseus'; shewing that Chaucer was thinking of the adjective ''Pegaseus'' rather than of the sb. ''Pegasus'', the name of the celebrated winged horse of Bellerophon and of the Muses. Cf. Lydgate's Complaint of the Black Knight, l. 92.

209. 'Or else it was the horse of the Greek named Sinon.' This very singular-looking construction is really common in Middle English; yet the scribe of the Harleian MS. actually writes 'the Grekissch hors Synon,' which makes Sinon the ''name of the horse''; and this odd blunder is retained in the editions by Wright, Bell, and Morris. The best way of clearing up the difficulty is by noting similar examples; a few of which are here appended:—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'The kinges meting Pharao';&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

i.&amp;nbsp;e. the dream of King Pharaoh; Book of the Duchesse, l. 282.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'The erles wif Alein';&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

i.&amp;nbsp;e. the wife of earl Alein; Rob. of Gloucester, in Spec. of Eng., ed. Morris and Skeat, p. 11, l. 303.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'Themperours moder william,'&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

i.&amp;nbsp;e. the mother of the Emperor named William; Will. of Palerne, l. 5437.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'Pieres pardon þe plowman';&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

i.&amp;nbsp;e. the pardon of Piers the Plowman; P. Pl. B. xix. 182.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'In Piers berne þe plowman';&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

i.&amp;nbsp;e. in the barn of Piers the Plowman; id. xix. 354.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'For Piers loue þe plowman';&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

i.&amp;nbsp;e. for love of Piers the Plowman; id. xx. 76. Chaucer again alludes {{pagenum|377}} to Sinon in the House of Fame, i. 152, and in the Legend of Good Women, Dido, 8; which shews that he took that legend partly from Vergil, Aen. ii. 195. But note that Chaucer here compares a horse of ''brass'' to the Trojan horse; this is because the latter was also said to have been of brass, not by Vergil, but by Guido delle Colonne; see note to l. 211. This is why Gower, in his Confess. Amant. bk. i., and Caxton, in his Recuyell of the Historyes of Troy, both speak of the Trojan horse as a 'horse of brass'; see Spec. of English, 1394-1579, ed. Skeat, p. 91, l. 67.

211. ''olde gestes'', old accounts. The account of the taking of Troy most valued in the middle ages was not that by Vergil or Homer, but the Latin prose story written in 1287 by Guido delle Colonne, who obtained a great reputation very cheaply, since he borrowed his work almost entirely from an old French ''Roman de Troie'', written by Benoit de Sainte-Maure. See the preface to The Gest Hystoriale of the Destruction of Troy, ed. Panton and Donaldson (Early English Text Society). And see vol. ii. p. lxi.

219. ''Iogelours'', jugglers. See the quotation from Marco Polo, i. 340, in vol. iii. p. 473; and cf. The Franklin's Tale, F. 1140-1151, and the notes.

223. ''comprehende''; so in the MSS. But read ''comprende''; see Troil. iii. 1687; and pronounce ''lew-ed-nes'' fully.

224. 'They are very prone to put down things to the worst cause.'

226. ''maister-tour'', principal tower, the donjon or keep-tower. So also ''maistre strete'', principal street, Kn. Ta. 2044 (A. 2902); ''maister temple'', Leg. of Good Women, l. 1016.

230. For ''slye'', MS. Hl. has ''heigh'', an inferior reading. Mr. Marsh observes upon this line—'This reasoning reminds one of the popular explanation of table-turning and kindred mysteries. Persons who cannot detect the trick ... ascribe the alleged facts to ''electricity''.... Men love to cheat themselves with hard words, and indolence often accepts the ''name'' of a phenomenon as a substitute for the reason of it'; Origin and Progress of the English Language, Lect. ix. p. 427.

231. The magic mirror in Rome was said to have been set up there by Vergil, who was at one time reverenced, not as a poet, but as a great enchanter. The story occurs in the Seven Sages, in the Introduction to his edition of which Mr. Wright says, at p. lix., 'The story of Virgil's tower, which was called ''salvatio Romae'', holds rather a conspicuous place in the legendary history of the magician. Such a tower is first mentioned, but without the name of Virgil, in a Latin MS. of the eighth century, in a passage published by Docen and republished by Keller, in his introduction to the ''Sept Sages''. Vincent of Beauvais, in the thirteenth century ... describes Virgil's tower; and it is the subject of a chapter in the legendary history of Virgilius.' See also the other version of the Seven Sages edited by Weber, and reprinted in Mätzner's Sprachproben, i. 254; where the ''mirror'' is mentioned. {{pagenum|378}} Gower tells the story of this mirror in his Confessio Amantis, bk. v. It occurs also in the Chronicle of Helinand, and in the Otia Imperialia of Gervase of Tilbury; Morley's Eng. Writers, iv. 225. Warton notes that the same fiction is in Caxton's Troybook, bk. ii. ch. 22. It also occurs in Higden, Polychronicon, bk. i. c. 24.

232. &amp;apos;''Alhazeni et Vitellonis Opticae'' are extant, printed at Basil, 1572. The first is supposed by his editor to have lived about {{asc|A.D.}} 1100, and the second to {{asc|A.D.}} 1270.'—Tyrwhitt. Hole's Brief Biographical Dictionary has the notices—'Alhazel or Alhazen, Arabian Astronomer and Optician; died {{asc|A.D.}} 1038'; and—'Vitello or Vitellio, Polish Mathematician; floruit circa 1254.' See also the remarks in Warton (Hist. Eng. Poetry), on the Clerk's Tale. ''Alhacen (sic)'' is mentioned in Le Rom. de la Rose, l. 18234. In l. 18376 of the same, we find the very phrase: 'Par composicions diverses'; and again, in l. 18387: 'Par les diversités des angles.' Mirrors are there described at length. R. Scot, in his Discoverie of Witchcraft, bk. xiii. c. 19, declares that 'the wonderous deuises and miraculous sights and conceipts made and conteined in glasse, doo farre exceed all other.'

233. Aristotle, the famous Grecian philosopher, born {{asc|B.C.}} 384, died 322. ''writen in hir lyves'', wrote in their lifetime. Observe that ''writen'' is here the past tense. The pres. pl. is ''wryten''; pt. s. ''wrat'', ''wrot'', or ''wroot''; pt. pl. ''writen''; pp. ''writen''.

238. ''Thelophus.'' Telephus, king of Mysia, in opposing the landing of the Greeks in the expedition against Troy, was wounded by the spear of Achilles. But as an oracle declared that the Greeks would require his aid, he was healed by means of the rust taken from the same spear. Chaucer may easily have learnt this story from his favourite Ovid, who says—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'Telephus aeterna consumptus tabe perisset&lt;/span&gt;
{{gap|0.7em}}Si non quae nocuit dextra tulisset opem.
{{gap|9.45em}}Tristium, lib. v. El. 2. 15.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

And again—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'Vulnus Achilleo quae quondam fecerat hosti,&lt;/span&gt;
{{gap|0.7em}}Vulneris auxilium Pelias hasta tulit.'
{{gap|12.25em}}Remed. Amor. 47.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

See also Met. xii. 112; xiii. 171; Ex Ponto, ii. 2. 26; Propertius, Eleg. ii. 1. 65 (''or'' 63). Or he may have taken it from Dante, Inferno, xxxi. 5; or from Hyginus, Fab. 101. Cf. Shak. 2 Hen. VI., v. i. 100.

247. ''Canaceës''; four syllables, as in l. 631.

250. Great skill in magic was attributed in the middle ages to Moses and Solomon, especially by the Arabs. Moses was supposed to have learnt magic from the Egyptians; cf. Acts vii. 22; Exod. vii. 11. See the story of the Fisherman and Genie in the Arabian Nights' Entertainments, where the genie invokes the name of Solomon.

253. 'Some said it was a wonderful thing to make glass from fern-ashes, since glass does not resemble fern-ashes at all.' Glass contains two principal ingredients, sand and some kind of alkali. For the latter, {{pagenum|379}} the calcined ashes of seaweed, called ''kelp'', were sometimes used; or, according to Chaucer, the ashes of ferns. Modern chemistry has developed many greater wonders.

256. 'But, because men have known it (the art of glass-making) so long, their talking and wonder about it ceases.' The art is of very high antiquity, having been known even to the Egyptians. ''so fern'', so long ago; Chaucer sometimes rimes words which are spelt exactly alike, but only when their meanings differ. See Prol. l. 17, where ''seke'', to seek, rimes with ''seke'', sick. Other examples are seen in the Kn. Tale, ''see'' being repeated in A. 1955-6; ''caste'' in A. 2171-2; ''caas'' in A. 2357-8; and ''fare'' in A. 2435-6. Imperfect rimes like ''disport'', ''port'', Prol. 137, 138, are common; see Prol. 241, 433, 519, 579, 599, 613, 811; Kn. Ta. 379, 381 (A. 1237, 1239), &amp;c. For examples of ''fern'' compare—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'Ye, farewel al the snow of ''ferne'' yere,'&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

i.&amp;nbsp;e. good bye to all last year's snow; Troil. and Cres. v. 1176 (see vol. ii. p. 394). So also ''fernyere'', long ago, in P. Pl. B. v. 440; spelt ''uernyere'', in Ayenbite of Inwyt, ed. Morris, p. 92. Adverbs commonly terminate in ''-e'', but the scribes are right in writing ''fern'' here; see A.&amp;nbsp;S. Gospels, Matt. xi. 21, for the forms ''gefyrn'', ''gefern'', meaning ''long ago''. Occleve, in La Male Regle, 196, uses the expression ''fern ago'', i.&amp;nbsp;e. long ago; Poems, ed. Furnivall, p. 31. And in Levins's Manipulus Vocabulorum, ed. Wheatley, we find—'Old farne years, ''anni praeteriti, seculum prius''.'

With these examples in view, we might interpret ''ferne halwes'' in Chaucer's Prologue, l. 14, by 'olden' rather than by 'distant' saints; yet the latter is decisively authenticated by a passage in his translation of Boethius, bk. ii. met. 7, where the expression 'renoun ysprad to ''ferne poeples'', goth by dyverse tonges,' can only mean 'distant' peoples. ''Fern'', in the sense of ''old'', is explained at once by the Gothic ''fairnis'', old; but, in the sense of ''distant'', would seem to be corruptly and incorrectly formed, since the A.&amp;nbsp;S. ''feorran'', meaning ''far'', is strictly an adverb, from the adjective ''feorr''. But in course of time this adverb came to be declined as an adjective; see the examples in Stratmann, s.&amp;nbsp;v. ''feorren''.

258. Cf. 'What is the cause of thunder'; K. Lear, iii. 4. 160. The opinions of various ancient philosophers as to the cause of thunder are given in Plutarch's treatise, De Placitis Philosophorum ({{Polytonic|{{Tooltip|texttip=peri tôn areskontôn tois philosophois|target=περὶ τῶν ἀρεσκόντων τοῖς φιλοσόφοις}}}}), lib. iii. c. 3. It was usually believed to result from the collision of clouds. 'Fulmina autem collisa nubila faciunt'; Isidore, Originum lib. xiii. c. 9. Cf. A.&amp;nbsp;S. Leechdoms, iii. 281.

263. For a full explanation of this difficult passage, I must be content to refer the reader to Mr. Brae's edition of Chaucer's Astrolabe, pp. 77 and 86, and my own edition of the same (E. E. T. S.), p. lvi. The chief points that now seem tolerably certain are these.

(1) The Angle Meridional was an astrological term. The heavens were divided into twelve equal parts called 'mansions,' and four of {{pagenum|380}} these mansions were technically called 'angles'; the ''angle meridional'' was the same as the ''tenth mansion'', which was bounded on the one edge by the meridian, and on the other by a semi-circle passing through the N. and S. points of the horizon, and lying 30° to the E. of the meridian; so that, at the equinoxes, at any place situate on the equator, the sun would cross this portion of the sky between 10 {{smaller|A. M.}} and the hour of noon.

(2) Since this 'angle' corresponds to the end of the forenoon, the sun leaves the said angle at the moment of noon, and l. 263 means no more than 'it was now past noon.'

(3) The 'royal beast' means the king of beasts, the lion, and (here in particular) the sign of the zodiac named Leo. This sign, on March 15, in Chaucer's time, and in the latitude of London, began to 'ascend,' or rise above the horizon, just about noon. An additional reason for calling Leo 'royal' is because the principal star in the constellation is called ''Regulus'' in Latin, {{Polytonic|{{Tooltip|texttip=Basiliskos|target=Βασιλίσκος}}}} in Greek, and ''Melikhi'' in Arabic, all epithets signifying ''kingly'' or ''royal''.

(4) But, before the Tartar king rose from the feast, the time past noon had so increased that the star called Aldiran, situate in Leo, was now rising above the horizon. In other words it was very nearly two o'clock. It may be added, that, by the time the ''whole'' of the sign had ascended, it would be about a quarter to three. Hence Chaucer speaks of the sign as yet (i.&amp;nbsp;e. still) ascending.

The chief remaining point is to fix the star ''Aldiran''.

Most MSS. read ''Aldrian'', owing to the frequent shifting of ''r'' in a word; just as ''brid'', for instance, is the old spelling of ''bird''. But the Hengwrt MS. is right. The name ''Aldiran'', ''Aldurin'', or ''Aldiraan'', occurs in the old Parisian star-lists as the name of a star in the constellation Leo, and is described in them as being 'in fronte Leonis.' The word means 'the two fore-paws,' and the notes of the star's position are such that I am persuaded it is the star now called θ Hydrae, situate near the Lion's fore-paws, as commonly drawn. The only objection to this explanation arises from the comparative insignificance of the star; but whoever will take the trouble to examine the old lists will see that certain stars were chosen quite as much for the sake of ''position'' as of ''brightness''. When it was desired to mark particular points in the sky, bright stars were chosen if they were conveniently placed; but, failing that, any would serve the purpose that were fairly distinct. This is why, in a star-list of only 49 stars in MS. Camb. Univ. Lib. Ii. 3. 3, such stars as δ Capricorni, δ Aquarii, δ Ophiuchi, &amp;c., find a place. The star ''Aldiran'' (θ Hydrae) was remarkable for rising, in the latitude of Paris, ''just before'' the splendid star α Leonis of the first magnitude, whose coming it thus heralded. That star is ''also'' found in the same star-lists, with the name ''Calbalesed'', or 'the lion's heart'; in Latin, Cor Leonis; another name for it being ''Regulus'', as stated above.

On the whole, we fairly suppose Chaucer's meaning to be, that before {{pagenum|381}} the feast concluded, it was not only ''past noon'', but nearly ''two hours past noon''.

269. ''chambre of parements.'' Tyrwhitt's note is—&amp;apos;''Chambre de parement'' is translated by Cotgrave, the presence-chambre, and ''lit de parement'', a bed of state. ''Parements'' originally signified all sorts of ornamental furniture or clothes, from Fr. ''parer'', to adorn. See Kn. Ta. 1643 (A. 2501), and Legend of Good Women; Dido, l. 181.' He adds that the Italians use ''camera de' paramenti'' in the same sense.

272. ''Venus children'', the worshippers or subjects, of Venus. It merely means the knights and ladies at the feast, whose thoughts then turned upon love, because the season was astrologically favourable for it; cf. Kn. Tale, 1628, 1629 (A. 2486). The reason is given in l. 273, viz. that 'hir lady,' i.&amp;nbsp;e. ''their'' lady or goddess, as represented by the planet Venus, was then situate in the sign Pisces. This sign, in astrology, is called the 'exaltation' of Venus, or the sign in which she exerts most power. Hence the expression ''ful hye'', and the statement that Venus regarded her servants with a friendly aspect. In the Wyf of Bathes Prol. (D. 704), Chaucer has the line—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'In ''Pisces'', wher ''Venus is exaltat''.'&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

'Who will not commend the wit of astrology? Venus, born out of the sea, hath her exaltation in Pisces'; Sir T. Browne, Works, ed. Wilkin, iv. 382.

287. ''Lancelot'', the celebrated lover of queen Guinever in the Arthur romances. Cp. Dante, Inf. v. 128.

291. 'The steward bids (them) to be quick with the spices.' Cf. Joseph of Arimathea, ed. Skeat, note to l. 698. And see vol. ii. 506.

300. ''Hath'' is here used like the mod. F. ''il y a'', for which O. F. often has ''a'' only. The sense is—'there is plenty.' The idiom is borrowed from French, and the text is correct. (I owe this note to a friend.)

316. 'You must twirl round a pin (which) stands in his ear.'

318. 'You must also tell him to what place or country you wish to ride.'

334. ''Ryde'', ride; so in the Six-text; Hl. has ''Byd'', i.&amp;nbsp;e. bid.

340. The bridle is here said to have been put away with the ''jewels''. So also, when Richard I., in a crusade, took Cyprus, among the treasures in the castles are mentioned precious stones, golden cups, &amp;c., together with golden saddles, ''bridles'', and spurs; Geoffrey of Vinsauf, Iter Hierosol. c. xli. p. 328; in Vet. Script. Angl. tom. ii.

346. Tyrwhitt inserts ''that'' after ''Til'', to fill up the line. It is not required; it is one of the many lines in which the first syllable is lacking.

347. 'Sleep, digestion's nurse, winked upon them, and bade them take notice, that much drink and exercise must require repose.' Cf. 2 Hen. IV., iii. 1. 6. Tyrwhitt supposes l. 349 to be corrupt; I do not know why.

351. To scan the line, retain the ''e'' in ''seyde'', preserved by the caesura. {{pagenum|382}}

352. By the old physicians, blood was supposed to be in domination, or chief power, for seven hours, from the ninth hour of the night (beginning at 8 {{smaller|P. M.}}) to the third hour of the day. Tyrwhitt quotes from a book De Natura, ascribed to Galen, tom. v. p. 327—&amp;apos;''Sanguis dominatur'' horis septem, ab hora noctis nona ad horam diei tertiam.' Other authorities were pleased to state the matter somewhat differently. 'Six houres after midnight bloud hath the mastery, and in the sixe houres afore noon choler reigneth, and six houres after noon raigneth melancholy, and six hours afore midnight reigneth the flegmatick'; Shepheardes Kalender, ed. 1656, ch. xxix. Chaucer no doubt followed this latter account, which he may have found in the original French Calendrier des Bergers; see note to l. 51, p. 373.

358. ''fumositee'', fumes arising from wine-drinking. See C. 567; and concerning dreams, see the Nonne Prestes Tale, 103-149 (B. 4113-59).

359. ''no charge'', no weight; to which no weight, or no significance, can be attached.

360. ''pryme large''; probably the same as ''fully pryme'', Sir Thop., B. 2015, which see. It must then mean the time when the period of prime was quite ended; i.&amp;nbsp;e. 9 {{smaller|A. M.}} This would be a very late hour for rising, but the occasion was exceptional.

365. ''appalled'', enfeebled, languid; lit. 'rendered pallid,' cf. Kn. Ta. 2195 (A. 3053); and Shipm. Tale, B. 1290-2:—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'&quot;Nece,&quot; quod he, &quot;it oghte y-nough suffyse&lt;/span&gt;
Fyve houres for to slepe upon a night,
But it were for an old ''appalled'' wight,&quot;' &amp;c.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

373. 'Before the sun began to rise'; i.&amp;nbsp;e. before 6 {{smaller|A. M.}}, as it was near the equinox.

374. ''maistresse'', governess; as appears from the Phis. Tale, C. 72.

376-377. Though the sense is clear, the grammar is incurably wrong. Chaucer ''says''—'These old women, that would fain seem wise, just as did her governess, answered her at once.' What he ''means'' is—'This governess, that would fain seem wise, as such old women often do, answered her,' &amp;c. The second part of this tale seems to have been hastily composed, left unfinished, and never revised. Cf. l. 382.

383. ''wel a ten'', i.&amp;nbsp;e. about ten. Cf. Prol. l. 24.

386. ''four.'' The Harl. MS. wrongly has ''ten''. There is no doubt about it, because on March 15, the day before, the sun was in the ''third'' degree of the sign; on the 16th, he was in the ''fourth'' degree.

387. It means—'and, moreover, the sun had risen but four degrees above the horizon'; i.&amp;nbsp;e. it was not yet a quarter past six.

396. ''her hertes'', their hearts. ''lighte'', to feel light, to feel happy; an unusual use of the verb; but see F. 914. In l. 398, the sudden change to the singular ''she'' is harsh.

401. Again hastily written. Chaucer says—'The point for which every tale is told—if it be delayed till the pleasure of them that have {{pagenum|383}} hearkened after (or listened attentively to) the former part of it grows cold—then the pleasantness of it passes off, on account of the prolixity in telling it; and the more so, the longer it is spun out.' ''Knotte'' is cognate with the Lat. ''nodus'' (written for ''gnodus''), as used by Horace, Ars Poet. l. 191.

409. ''fordrye'', exceedingly dry. The tree was white too, owing to loss of its bark. This reminds me of the famous ''Arbre Sec'', or Dry Tree; see Marco Polo, ed. Yule, i. 119; Maundeville, ed. Halliwell, p. 68; Mätzner, Sprachproben, ii. 185.

428. ''faucon peregryn.'' 'This species of falcon is thus described in the Tresor de Brunet Latin, P. i. ch. ''Des Faucons''; MS. Reg. 19 C. x. &quot;La seconde lignie est ''faucons'', qui hom apele ''pelerins'', par ce que nus ne trove son ni; ains est pris autresi come en ''pelerinage'', et est mult legiers a norrir, et mult cortois et vaillans, et de bone maniere&quot; [i.&amp;nbsp;e. the second kind is the falcon which is called the pilgrim (or peregrine), because no one ever finds its nest; but it is otherwise taken, as it were on ''pilgrimage'', and is very easily fed, and very tame and bold, and well-mannered]. Chaucer adds that this falcon was of ''fremde lond'', i.&amp;nbsp;e. from a foreign country.'—Tyrwhitt.

435. ''ledene'', language; from A. S. ''læden'', ''leden'', sometimes used in the sense of language, though it is, after all, a mere corruption of ''Latin'', which is the sense which it most often bears. Thus, the inscription on the cross of Christ is said to have been written 'Ebreisceon stafon, and Grecisceon, and ''Leden'' stafon,' in Hebrew letters and in Greek and Latin letters; John, xix. 20. So also 'on ''Ledenisc'' gereorde,' in the Latin language; Beda, bk. iv. c. 1. Hence the word was used more generally in the sense of language; as, 'Mara is, on ure ''lyden'', biternes,' i.&amp;nbsp;e. Marah is, in our speech, bitterness; Exod. xv. 23. This extension of the meaning, and the form of the word, were both influenced, probably, by confusion with the sb. ''lēod'', people. The student should learn to distinguish this word from the A.&amp;nbsp;S. ''lēoð'', G. ''lied'', a song. Tyrwhitt notes that Dante uses ''latino'' in the sense of language; 'E cantine gli augelli Ciascuno in suo ''latino''&amp;apos;; Canzone 1.

458. ''as dooth'', so do, pray do. See Note to Cler. Tale, E. 7.

469. 'As verily as may the great God of nature help me.' ''Wisly'', verily, is quite different from ''wysly'', wisely; cf. Kn. Ta. 1376 (A. 2234).

471. 'To heal your hurts with quickly.' Note the position of ''with''; and cf. l. 641.

474. ''aswowne'' = ''a swowne'' = ''on swoune'', in a swoon.

479. Chaucer's favourite line; he repeats it four times. See Kn. Ta. 903 (A. 1761); March. Ta. 9860 (E. 1986); Prol. to Leg. G. W. 503. Also, in The Man of Lawes Ta. B. 660, we have it again in the form—'As gentil herte is fulfild of pitee.'

480. ''similitude'' is pronounced nearly as ''sim'litude''.

483. ''kytheth'', manifests. Cf. Rom. Rose, 2187-2238 (vol. i. p. 172).

490. 'And to make others take heed by my example, as the lion is {{pagenum|384}} chastised (or reproved) by means of the dog.' The explanation of this passage was a complete riddle to me till I fortunately discovered the proverb alluded to. It appears in George Herbert's Jacula Prudentum (Herbert's Works, ed. Willmott, 1859, p. 328) in the form 'Beat the dog before the lion,' where ''before'' means ''in the sight of''. This is cleared up by Cotgrave, who, in his French Dictionary, s.&amp;nbsp;v. ''Batre'', has the proverb—'Batre le chien devant le Lion, to punish a mean person in the presence, and to the terror of, a great one.' It is even better explained by Shakespeare, Othello, ii. 3. 272—'What, man! there are ways to recover the general again: you are but now cast in his mood, ''a punishment more in policy than in malice''; even so as one would beat his offenceless dog to affright an imperious lion.'

499. ''Ther'', where. The numerous expressions in this narrative certainly shew that the falcon was really a princess (cf. l. 559) who had been changed into a falcon for a time, as is so common in the Arabian Tales. Thus, in l. 500, the ''roche'' or rock may be taken to signify a palace, and the ''tercelet'' (l. 504) to be a prince. This gives the whole story a human interest.

505-506. ''welle'', well, fountain. ''Al were he'', although he was.

511. ''coloures'', colours; and, in a secondary sense, pretences, which meaning is also intended; cf. l. 560. On dyeing ''in grain'', i.&amp;nbsp;e. of a fast colour, see note to Sir Thopas, B. 1917.

512. ''hit him'', hideth himself. The allusion is to the well-known lines 'Qui legitis flores ... fugite hinc, latet anguis in herba'; Verg. Bucol. iii. 92. Cf. D. 1994; and Macbeth, i. 5. 66.

516. Read ''kēp'th''. MS. Hl. gives lines 514-6 thus:—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'Right so this god of loue, this ypocrite,&lt;/span&gt;
Doth so his sermonys and his obseruaunce
Under subtil colour and aqueyntaunce.'
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

517. ''sowneth in-to'', tend to, are consonant with; see Prol. 307.

518. Cf. P. Plowm. B. xv. 109. Both passages are from Matt. xxiii. 27.

537. Chaucer clearly quotes this as a proverb; ''true'' man means ''honest'' man, according to Dogberry; Much Ado about Nothing, iii. 3. 54. The sense seems to be much the same as 'You cannot make a silk purse of a sow's ear,' or 'Once a knave, always a knave.' Compare the use of ''theef'' in Anelida, l. 161; also—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'Alas! I see a serpent or a theef,&lt;/span&gt;
That many a trewe man hath doon mescheef;
{{gap|7.7em}}Knightes Tale, 467 (A. 1325).
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

548. The reading ''Troilus'' (in E. Hn.) must be a mistake, because he was not guilty of transferring his love to another; it was ''Cressida'' who did that, so that the falcon would take care not to refer to that story. Paris deserted Oenone for Helen, and Jason deserted Medea for Glauce. Lamech was the first to have two wives, viz. Adah and Ziilah; {{pagenum|385}} Gen. iv. 23. The whole of this passage is a recast of Chaucer's earlier poem of Anelida, where Lamech is introduced just in the same way (l. 150).

555. Imitated, but not with good taste, from Mark, i. 7.

558. This line resembles Troil. ii. 637.

579. 'Whether it was a grief to me, does not admit of doubt.'

583. 'Such grief I felt because he could not stay.'

593. Chaucer has this expression again, Kn. Ta. 2184 (A. 3042); Troilus, iv. 1586. It was a common proverb. Shakespeare has it frequently; Two G. of Ver. iv. i. 62; Rich. II., i. 3. 278; King Lear, iii. 2. 70. An early example of it is in Matt. Paris (Record Series), i. 20:—'Vitam in tantam sanctitatem commutavit, faciendo de necessitate virtutem,' &amp;c.

596. ''to borwe'', for a security; ''borwe'' being a sb., not a verb. Cf. Kn. Ta. 360, 764 (A. 1218, 1622). Hence it means, 'Saint John being for a security,' i.&amp;nbsp;e. Saint John being my security; as in The Complaint of Mars, l. 9. She pledges herself by Saint John, the apostle of truth; see 1 John, iii. 19, iv. 20. Lydgate has 'seint John to borowe' in his Complaint of the Black Knight, st. 2.

601. 'When he has well ''said'' everything, he has done (all he means to do).'

602. This is a common proverb; cf. Com. of Errors, iv. 3. 64; Tempest, ii. 2. 103; Marlowe, Jew of Malta, iii. 4.

607. From Boethius, De Cons. Phil. lib. iii. met. 2:—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'Repetunt proprios quaeque recursus&lt;/span&gt;
Redituque suo singula gaudent.'
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

A few lines above is a passage answering to ll. 611-620, which in the original runs thus (cf. vol. ii. p. 56):—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'Quae canit altis garrula ramis&lt;/span&gt;
Ales, caueae clauditur antro:
Huic licet illita pocula melle,
Largasque dapes dulci studio
Ludens hominum cura ministret,
Si tamen, arto saliens tecto,
Nemorum gratas uiderit umbras,
Sparsis pedibus proterit escas,
Siluas tantum maesta requirit,
Siluas dulci uoce susurrat.'
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

Chaucer repeats the example yet a third time, in the Manciple's Tale, H. 163. Moreover, Jean de Meun copied the whole passage in Le Roman de la Rose, 14145.

617-1223. Eight leaves are here lost in MS. Hl.

618. ''newefangel'', i.&amp;nbsp;e. eager for novelty; of four syllables, as in l. 89 of the Manc. Tale, H. 193. The word ''newefangelnesse'' will be found in the poem of Anelida, l. 141, and in Leg. of Good Wom., Prol. {{pagenum|386}} 154. 'Be not ''newfangil'' in no wise'; Babees Book, ed. Furnivall, p. 51, l. 115; cf. p. 9, l. 13. And see the Balade against Women Unconstant, l. 1 (vol. i. p. 409).

624. ''kyte.'' Mr. Jephson notes that 'the kite is a cowardly species of hawk, quite unfit for falconry, and was therefore the emblem of everything base.'

640. Compare ll. 153-155, which shew that Canace knew what herbs to choose.

644. ''Blue'' was the colour of truth and constancy; hence the expression 'true blue'; cf. Cler. Tale, E. 254. ''Green'' (l. 646) signified ''inconstancy''. Lydgate, in his Fall of Princes, fol. ''e'' 7, speaking of Dalilah, says—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'In stede of ''blewe'', which stedefast is and clene,&lt;/span&gt;
She louyd chaungys of many diuers ''grene''.'

&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'True blue will never stain'; Proverb.&lt;/span&gt;

&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;''Twas Presbyterian true blue''; Hudibras, i. i. 191.&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

Tyrwhitt draws attention to the Balade against Women Unconstant (in vol. i. p. 409), the burden of which is—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'In stede of ''blew'', thus may ye were al ''grene''.'&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

648. ''tidifs.'' The ''tidif'' is mentioned as an inconstant bird in Prol. to Leg. G. W. l. 154—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;margin-left:-0.2em&quot;&gt;'And tho that hadde doon unkindenesse&lt;/span&gt;
As dooth the ''tydif'', for newfangelnesse,' &amp;c.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}

Drayton uses ''tydy'' as the name of a small bird, Polyolb. xiii. 79; ''not'' the wren, which is mentioned five lines above. In a piece called The Parlament of Byrdes, pr. for A. Kytson, one of the birds is called a ''tytyfer''; see Hazlitt's Early Pop. Poetry, iii. 177. Schmeller gives ''Zitzerl'' as the Bavarian name for a wren; but cf. E. ''tit''.

649-650. These lines are transposed in Tyrwhitt's edition. Such a transposition makes the sense much clearer, beyond doubt. But I am not convinced that the confused construction in the text is not Chaucer's own. It is very like his manner. Cf. notes to ll. 376, 401.

667. Observe that ''Cambalo'', if not inserted here in the MSS. by error, is quite a different person from the ''Cambalus'' in l. 656 (called ''Cambalo'' in l. 31). He is Canace's ''lover'', who is to fight in the lists ''against'' her brothers Cambalo and Algarsif, and win her. Spenser (F. Q. iv. 3) introduces three brethren as suitors for Canace, who have to fight against Cambello her brother; this is certainly not what Chaucer intended, nor is it very satisfactory.

671-672. Some suppose these two lines to be spurious. I believe them to be genuine; for they occur in MS. E. Hn. Cp. Pt., and others, and are not to be too lightly rejected. The Lansdowne MS. has ''eight'' lines here, which are certainly spurious. In MS. E., after l. 672, the rest of the page is ''blank''. The lines are quite intelligible, if we add the words ''He entreth''. We then have—'Apollo (the sun) whirls up his chariot so highly (continues his course in the zodiac) till he enters the {{pagenum|387}} mansion of the god Mercury, the cunning one'; the construction in the last line being similar to that in l. 209. The sun was described as in Aries, l. 51. By continuing his ''upward'' course, i.&amp;nbsp;e. his ''Northward'' course, by which he approached the zenith daily, he would soon come to the sign Gemini, which was the mansion of Mercury. It is a truly Chaucerian way of saying that two months had elapsed. We may conclude that Chaucer just began the Third Part of this Tale, but never even finished the first sentence. It is worth noting that these two lines are imitated at the beginning of the (spurious) poem called The Flower and the Leaf; and in Skelton's Garland of Laurel, l. 1471.</text>
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 | title       = [[../|The Vision and Creed of Piers Ploughman]]
 | author      = William Langland
 | override_editor = [[Author:Thomas Wright (1810-1877)|Thomas Wright]]
 | translator  = 
 | previous    = [[../Creed/|The Creed]]
 | section     = Notes
 | next        = [[../Glossary/]]
 | year        = 
 | notes       = 
 | edition     = 
}}
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{{c|{{xx-larger|NOTES AND GLOSSARY}}}}

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{{c|{{xx-larger|NOTES.}}}}

Line [[../Introduction#vs1|1]]{{anchor|notevs1}}. Bale, quoting the first two lines, translates them ''In æstivo tempore, cum sol caleret''. The printers of the early editions altered ''softe'' to ''set''.

[[../Introduction#vs4|4]]{{anchor|notevs4}}, [[../Introduction#vs5|5]]{{anchor|notevs5}}. ''shroudes ... sheep''. The other text of this poem reads ''Yshop into shrobbis | as y shepherde were''. See the Introduction.

[[../Introduction#vs28|28]]{{anchor|notevs28}}. The text represented in Whitaker's edition here differs much from the other. Our dreamer is there introduced very unadvisedly telling us of this tower, 'truthe was therynne,' a piece of information which he only learns afterwards from dame 'Holy Churche:'

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ich was aferd of hure face,
Thauh hue faire were,
And saide, mercy, madame,
Wat may this be to mene,
''The tour upon toft'', quath hue,
Treuthe ys therynne.
{{gap|5.25em}}(Passus Secundus, ed. Whit.)
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Where there is an evident reference to the &quot;tour on a toft,&quot; which has been previously mentioned in the more correct text.

[[../Introduction#vs43|43]]{{anchor|notevs43}}, [[../Introduction#vs44|44]]{{anchor|notevs44}}. Dr. Whitaker, misunderstanding this passage, has printed 'ther' for 'that,' which is in all the MSS. In his gloss, he interprets 'wonnen' by 'to dwell;' and he paraphrases the sentence, 'some destroying themselves by gluttony and excess,' translating it, I suppose, &quot;And there dwell wasters whom gluttony destroyeth.&quot; The meaning is, the ploughmen worked hard, &quot;and obtained (wan) that which wasters destroy with their gluttony.&quot; The writer of the second Trin. Coll. MS. seems to have understood the meaning of the passage, but not the words, and has 'whom that thise wastours.'

[[../Introduction#vs68|68]]{{anchor|notevs68}}. I have here to preserve the alliteration, adopted 'giltles,' from the second Trin. Coll. MS., and one of the printed editions, in place of 'synneles,' which the other MS. has. Though we find instances of irregularity in the sub-letters (or alliterative letters in the first line) in Pierce Plowman, the chief letter is not so often neglected. In Whitaker's text the account of the minstrels is very confused. Here the minstrels get gold by their song without sin, but the japers and janglers are condemned as getting their living by what is afterwards called 'turpiloquium,' when they had ability to get it in an honester way.

[[../Introduction#vs88|88]]{{anchor|notevs88}}. ''Roberdes knaves.'' These are the same class of malefactors who are named ''Roberdesmen'' in the Statutes, 5 Ed. III. c. 14. &quot;Et diverses roberies, homicides, et felonies ont esté faitz eintz ces heures par gentz qui sont appellez Roberdesmen, Wastours, et Draghelatche, si est acordé et establi que si homme eit suspecion de mal de nuls tielx, soit-il de jour soit-il de nuyt, que meintenant soient arestus par les conestables des villes.&quot; This law was confirmed by 7 Ric. II. c. 5, where the word is again introduced. Whitaker supposes, without any reason, the 'Roberdes knaves' to be Robin Hood's men. The other Trin. Coll. MS. reads ''Robertis knaves''.

[[../Introduction#vs93|93]]{{anchor|notevs93}}. ''Seint Jame.'' St. James of Compostello was a famous resort of pilgrims in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. An amusing song on the inconveniences which attended the voyage is printed in the Reliquiæ Antiquæ, vol. i, p. 2.

[[../Introduction#vs107|107]]{{anchor|notevs107}}. ''Walsyngham.'' The shrine of the Virgin Mary at Walsingham in Norfolk, also enjoyed an extraordinary celebrity, as a resort of English pilgrims. It appears that the first complaints of the Wicliffite reformers were strongly expressed against this pilgrimage. &quot;Lolardi sequaces Johannis Wiclif ... prædicaverunt peregrinationes non debere fieri, et præcipue apud Walsingham,&quot; etc. Th. Walsingh. p. 340.

[[../Introduction#vs116|116]]{{anchor|notevs116}}. The four orders of friars were, of course, the Franciscans, Augustines, Dominicans, and Carmelites.

[[../Introduction#vs131|131]]{{anchor|notevs131}}. These four lines stand thus in Whitaker's text, ''Bote holy churche and charité | choppe a-doun swich shryvers, | the moste myschif of molde | mounteth up faste.'' Whitaker has translated it quite wrong, &quot;May true charity and church discipline knock down these, the greatest pests on earth, who are rapidly increasing!&quot; The simple meaning of the passage, as given by Whitaker, is, &quot;Unless holy church and charity chop down such shrivers (confessors), the greatest mischief of the world is increasing fast.&quot; The present text affords a better and equally clear meaning, &quot;Unless holy church and they hold better together, the greatest mischief in the world is increasing, or gaining ground very fast.&quot;

[[../Introduction#vs141|141]]{{anchor|notevs141}}. ''of falshede of fastynge'', the comma has slipped in by accident. The meaning is &quot;of breaking fast-days.&quot;

[[../Introduction#vs147|147]]{{anchor|notevs147}}. ''He bunchith hem'', MS. Trin. 2.

[[../Introduction#vs168|168]]{{anchor|notevs168}}. ''the pestilence tyme.'' See further on, the [[#notevs2497|note]] on l. 2497. The great plague of 1349 and 1350 had carried off so much people, that hands were wanting to cultivate the lands in many parishes, and the distress which followed, with the failure of tithes which naturally accompanied it, drove the parsons to plead poverty as an excuse for going to London and seeking other occupations.

[[../Introduction#vs192|192]]{{anchor|notevs192}}. Whitaker's text inserts the following passage between this line and the one following{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Conscience cam and acusede hem,
And the commune herde hit,
And seide, &quot;Ydolatrie ye soffren
In sondrye places menye,
And boxes ben y-set forth
Bounden with yren,
To undertake the tool
Of untrewe sacrifice,
In menynge of miracles
Muche wex hongeth there,
Al the worldle wot wel
Hit myghte nat be trywe.
Ac for it profitith yow to pors-warde,
Ye prelates soffren
That lewede men in mysbylyve
Leven and deien.
Ich lyve wel, by oure Lorde!
For love of youre covetyse,
That al the worlde be the wors;
As holy wryght telleth
What cheste and meschaunce
To children of Israel
Ful on hem that free were,
Thorwe two false preestes.
For the synne of Ophni
And of Finees hus brother,
Thei were disconfit in bataille,
And losten ''Archa Dei'',
And fore hure syre sauh hem syngen,
And aoffred hem don ylle,
And noght chasted hem therof,
And wolde noght rebukie hem,
Anon as it was y-told hyme
That the children of Israel
Weren disconfit in bataille,
And ''Archa Dei'' y-lore,
And hus sones slayen,
Anon he ful for sorwe
Fro hus chaire thare he sat,
And brak hus necke a-tweyne;
And al was for venjaunce
That he but noght hus children.
And for they were preestes,
And men of holy churche,
God was well wrother,
And toke the rather venjaunce.
For-thei ich seye, ye preestes,
And men of holy churche,
That soffren men do sacrifice
And worsheppen mawmettes,
And ye sholde be here fadres,
And techen hem betere;
God shal take venjaunce
In alle swiche preestes
Wel harder and grettere,
On suche shrewede faderes,
Than ever he dude on Ophni
And Finees, or in here fadere.
For youre shrewede suffraunce,
And youre owen synne,
Youre masse and youre matynes,
And meny of youre houres, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Introduction#vs225|225]]{{anchor|notevs225}}. This is the constitutional principle which was universally acknowledged by our early political writers, and of which some strong declarations will be found in my &quot;Political Songs&quot; (published by the Camden Society). The doctrine of &quot;right divine&quot; was certainly not a prevalent one in the middle ages.

[[../Introduction#vs291|291]]{{anchor|notevs291}}. This fable appears to be of middle-age formation, for it is not found in any of the ancient collections. It does not occur in the fables of Marie. It is however found in the old collection, in French verse of the fourteenth century, entitled Ysopet; and M. Robert has also printed a Latin metrical version of the story from a MS. of the same century. La Fontaine has given it among his fables. It may be observed that the fable is nowhere so well told as in Piers Ploughman. (See Robert, Fables Inédites, des xii{{sup|e}}, xiii{{sup|e}}, et xiv{{sup|e}} siècles, i, pp. 98-101.) The readers of Scottish history will remember the application of this fable in 1481, by the earl of Angus (popularly named, from this circumstance, Archibald Bell-the-cat), in the conspiracy against the royal favourites, which forms an excellent illustration of our text.

[[../Introduction#vs381|381]]{{anchor|notevs381}}. ''Væ terræ, etc.'' Ecclesiastes, x, 16. &quot;Væ tibi, terra, cujus rex puer est, et cujus principes mane comedunt.&quot;

[[../Introduction#vs423|423]]{{anchor|notevs423}}. ''and pointeth the lawe.'' MS. Trin. 2.

[[../Introduction#vs429|429]]{{anchor|notevs429}}. after this line the following are inserted in the second MS. of Trin. Coll.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
I saugh bisshopis bolde,
And bacheleris of devyn,
Become clerkis of acountis
The king for to serve,
Archideknes and denis,
That dignités haven,
To preche the peple
And pore men to fede,
Ben y-lope to Lundone
Be leve of hire bisshop,
And ben clerkis of the kinges bench
The cuntré to shende.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Introduction#vs438|438]]{{anchor|notevs438}}. ''Taillours, tanneris, | And tokkeris bothe.'' MS. Trin. 2.

[[../Introduction#vs453|453]]{{anchor|notevs453}}. The Cottonian MS. Vespas. B. xvi, from which Price has given a long extract in his edition of Warton, has here &quot;With wyne of Oseye | and wyn of Gascoyne.&quot; Whitaker's reading is &quot;Whit wyn of Oseye and of Gascoyne.&quot; Price observes, in a note, &quot;good wyne of Gaskyne, and the wyne of Osee [is the reading of MS. Harl. No. 875].—The same hand already noticed has corrected ''wyn'' to ''weyte'' (wheat) ''of Gascoyne'';—an obvious improvement.&quot; I by no means partake in this opinion: ''wine'' of Gascony, and ''not wheat'' of Gascony, is perpetually alluded to in the literature of France and England from the twelfth to the sixteenth century. The reading of the text now printed is evidently the original one, which has been corrupted in the others: the wine more particularly known as Gascon, was a red wine. The writer of &quot;La Desputoison du Vin et de l'Iaue,&quot; says of it—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Vin de Gascoigne, sa coulour
N'est pas de petite valour;
Les autres vins fet honnorer.
Quant de soi les veult coulourer:
Force donne, aide, et confort,
Et d'un vin foible, fet. i. fort.
Il a de vin plaine sustance;
Il nourrist sans faire grevance:
Aus testes est bons et au flanc.
Et du rouge y a et du blanc.
(''Jubinal, Nouveau Recueil de Contes, &amp;c.'', i. 399.)
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The 'wyn of the Rochel' (vin de la Rochelle) was also a favourite wine.—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Rochelle, qui tant a de pris,
Que l'en la va de partout querre;
Chascun si l'enclot et l'enserre,
Car il n'est pas à garçonner,
N'en ne la doit q'aus bons donner;—
Por les grans seignors l'en salache.
{{gap|9.8em}}(''ib.'' p. 300).
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The &quot;wyn of Oseye&quot; (vin d'Osaie) was a foreign wine, very rare and dear, and sought up by 'gourmands:' it is mentioned with those of Malvoisia, Rosetta, and Muscadet. (Depping Réglemens sur les Arts et Métiers de Paris, p. lxiii.) It is unnecessary to explain what was 'wyn of the Ryn' (Rhine).

[[../Introduction#vs456|456]]{{anchor|notevs456}}. ''of the Reule | and of the Rochel.'' Whitaker.

[[../Introduction#vs458|458]]{{anchor|notevs458}}. These two lines, omitted in the MS. from which our text is printed, have been added from MS. Trin. 2.

[[../Passus 1#vs489|489]]{{anchor|notevs489}}. ''fyve wittes.'' The five wits were equivalent to the five ''senses''. One of the characters in the early interlude of The Four Elements, a production of the earlier part of the sixteenth century, says{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
I am callyd Sensuall Apetyte,
All craturs in me delyte;
I comforte the ''wyttys fyve'',
The tastyng, smellyng, and herynge,
I refresh the syght and felynge,
To all creaturs alyve.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Stephen Hawes, in his Pastime of Pleasure (chap. xxiv), belonging to this same age, refines upon this notion, and talks of five &quot;internall wittes,&quot; answering to the five external wits, or to those which were commonly understood by that name.

[[../Passus 1#vs522|522]]{{anchor|notevs522}}. Genesis xix, 32 . It is very singular that this story of Lot and his daughters was the favourite example of the medieval preachers against drunkenness.

[[../Passus 1#vs563|563]]{{anchor|notevs563}}. Luke xx, 25 .

[[../Passus 1#vs595|595]]{{anchor|notevs595}}. ''on an eller.'' It was the prevailing belief during the middle ages, that the tree on which Judas hanged himself was an elder. Maundevile tells us that this tree was still in existence, when he visited Jerusalem. &quot;Also streghte from Natatorie Siloe is an ymage of ston and of olde auncyen werk, that Absalon leet make; and because thereof, men clepen it the hond of Absalon. And faste by is yit the ''tree of eldre'' that Judas henge himself upon for despeyr that he hadde, whan he solde and betrayed oure Lord.&quot; The same notion continued to exist in the age of Shakespeare, and is alluded to by Shakespeare himself, Ben Jonson, and others.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
''Hol.'' What mean you, sir?

''Boyet.'' To make Judas hang himself.

''Hol.'' Begin, sir; you are ''my elder''.

''Biron.'' Well followed: ''Judas was hang'd on an elder.''

{{gap|15.4em}}''Love's Labours Lost'', v, 2.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 1#vs681|681]]{{anchor|notevs681}}. ''Lucifer with legions.'' The story of Lucifer's rebellion and fall was extremely popular in the middle ages, and particularly among the Anglo-Saxons, who, in the fine poem ascribed to Cædmon, had given it almost as much detail as Milton had done at a later date. This legend is related in prose in an Anglo-Saxon tract in MS. Cotton. Vespas. D. xiv, fol. 2.

[[../Passus 1#vs682|682]]{{anchor|notevs682}}. The second Trin. Col. MS. has, ''Leride it in hevene, | and as the lovelokest | to loke on, aftir oure Lord''.

[[../Passus 1#vs697|697]]{{anchor|notevs697}}-[[../Passus 1#vs704|704]]. Instead of these lines, we find the following in Whitaker's text:

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Lord, why wolde he tho,
Thulke wrechede Lucifer,
Lepen on a-lofte
In the northe syde,
To sitten in the sonne side
Ther the day roweth,
Ne were it for northerne men,
Anon ich wolde telle:
Ac ich wolle lacke no lyf,
Quath that lady sotthly.
'Hyt is sykerer by southe,
Ther the sonne regneth,
Than in the north, by meny notes,
No man loyne other.
For theder as the fend flegh,
Hus fote for to sette,
Ther he failede and fuel,
And hus felawes alle.
And helle is ther he is,
And he ther y-bounde,
Evene contrarie suteth Criste,
Cierkus knowen the sothe,
''Dixit Dominus Domino meo, sede a dextris meis.''

{{gap|0.7em}}'Ac of this matere
No more mene ich nelle,
He was in the halyday
After heten wayten,
They care noght thauh it be cold
Knaves wen thei worchen.'
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Whitaker has translated the last four lines of the foregoing extract thus, &quot;Excepting that hyndes on the holyday look out for warm places, but knaves (servants) when working hard, are indifferent to cold.&quot;

[[../Passus 1#vs695|695]]{{anchor|notevs695}}. Isaiah xiv, 14 . The citation varies a little from the text of the printed vulgate.

[[../Passus 1#vs707|707]]{{anchor|notevs707}}. ''Somme in the eyr.'' The monks in the middle ages endeavoured to explain the existence of different classes of spirits and fairies, which the popular creed represented as harmless, or even beneficent creatures, by supposing that some of the angels who fell with Lucifer were less guilty than others, and were allowed to occupy the different elements on the earth instead of being condemned to &quot;the pit.&quot; In &quot;The Master of Oxford's Catechism,&quot; written early in the fifteenth century, and printed in the Reliquiæ Antiquæ, vol. i, p. 231, we have the following question and answer,—&quot;''C.'' Where be the anjelles that God put out of heven, and bycam devilles? ''M.'' Som into hell, and som reyned in the skye, and som in the erth, and som in waters and in wodys.&quot;

[[../Passus 1#vs815|815]]{{anchor|notevs815}}. Mark iv, 24 . In qua mensura mensi fueritis, remetietur vobis, et adjicietur vobis.

[[../Passus 1#vs835|835]]{{anchor|notevs835}}. Epist. Jac. ii, 17 . Sic et fides, si non habeat opera, mortua est in semetipsa.

[[../Passus 1#vs862|862]]{{anchor|notevs862}}. Luke vi, 38 .

[[../Passus 2#vs901|901]]{{anchor|notevs901}}. The second Trin. Col. MS. has—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Frettid with rynges,
Of the pureste perreighe
That prince werde evere,
In red scarlet robid
And ribande with gold.
Ther nis no quen queyntere
That quyk is o-lyve,
'What is this womman,' quod I.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 2#vs934|934]]{{anchor|notevs934}}. Matth. vii, 17 . ''bonus'' (for ''bona'') is the reading of the MS. Perhaps it was thought allowable to use the masculine thus before a fem. noun beginning with ''a'', for the sake of euphony, as the French still write ''mon amie'', instead of ''ma amie'', and the like. Whitaker's text has here—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
''Talis pater, talis filius.''
For shal never brere bere
Beries as a vyne,
No on crokyd kene thorne
Kynde fygys wexe.
''Bona arbor bonum fructum facit.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The lines which follow differ considerably in the two texts.

[[../Passus 2#vs958|958]]{{anchor|notevs958}}. Psalm xiv, 1 .

[[../Passus 2#vs991|991]]{{anchor|notevs991}}-[[../Passus 2#vs994|994]]. Instead of these lines, the following are substituted in the second Trin. Coll. MS.{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Sire Symonye is assent
To asele the chartres,
That Fals and Favel
Be any fyn halden,
And feffe Mede therwith
In mariage for evere.
Ther nas halle ne hous
To herberwe the peple,
That iche feld nas ful
Of folk al aboute.
In myddis a mounteyne
At myd-morewe tide
Was pight up a pavyloun
Proud for the nones,
And ten thousand of tentis
Teldit beside,
Of knightes of cuntrés,
Of comeres aboute,
For sisours, for somonours, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


And the rest, as far as line 1100, differs very much in the two MSS.

[[../Passus 2#vs1103|1103]]{{anchor|notevs1103}}. ''of Banneburies sokne, | Reynald the reve, | and the redyngkynges menye, | Munde the mylnere.'' Whit.

[[../Passus 2#vs1128|1128]]{{anchor|notevs1128}}. Luke x, 7 .

[[../Passus 2#vs1177|1177]]{{anchor|notevs1177}}. ''With floryns ynowe.'' Edward III had issued, not very long before the date of this poem, the first extensive English gold coinage, to which he gave the Italian name of florins, derived originally from that of the city of Florence.

[[../Passus 2#vs1204|1204]]{{anchor|notevs1204}}. ''to Westmynstre'': ''i. e.'' to the courts of law which were held there.

[[../Passus 3#vs1404|1404]]{{anchor|notevs1404}}. ''A moton of golde.'' A mutton (mouton) was a small French coin of gold, which bore the stamp of a lamb or sheep. See Ducange, v. ''Multo''.

[[../Passus 3#vs1501|1501]]{{anchor|notevs1501}}. Matth. vi, 3 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1523|1523]]{{anchor|notevs1523}}. Regrating, or the buying up of provisions and other things to make extravagant profits by retailing them, was one of the great sources of oppression of the poor by the rich in the middle ages, and was a constant subject of popular complaint.

[[../Passus 3#vs1529|1529]]{{anchor|notevs1529}}. Whitaker's text adds here,—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thei have no puteye of the puple
That parcel-mele mote biggen,
Thauh thei take hem untydy thyng,
Thei hold it no treson;
And thauh thei fulle nat ful,
That for lawe y-seelde,
He gripeth therfor as grete
As for the grete treuthe.

{{gap|0.7em}}Meny sondry sorwes
In cyté fallen ofte,
Bothe thorw fyur and flod,
And al for false puple,
That bygylen good men,
And greveth hem wrongliche,
The wiche cryen on hure knees
That Christ hem avenge
Here on this erthe,
Other elles on helle,
That so bygyleth hem of here good,
And God on hem sendeth
Feveres, other fouler hyveles,
Other fur on here houses,
Moreyne, other meschaunce.
And menye tyme hit falleth,
That innocence ys y-herde
In hevene amonge seyntes,
That louten for hem to oure Lorde,
And to oure Lady bothe,
To granten gylours on erthe
Grace to amende,
And have here penaunce on pure erthe,
And noght in the pyne of helle.
And thenne falleth the fur
On false menne houses,
And good men for here gultes
Gloweth on fuyr after.
Al thys have we seyen,
That some tyme thorw a brewere
Many burgages y-brent,
And bodyes therynne,
And thorw a candel cloming
In a cursed place,
Fel a-don and for-brende
Forth al the rewe,
For-thy mayres that maken free-men,
Me thynken that thei ouhten
For to spure and aspye,
For eny speche of selver,
What manere mester
Of merchaundise he usede,
Er he were underfonge free
And felawe in youre rolles.
Hit ys nought semly, for soth,
In cyté ne in borw-ton,
That usurers other regratours
For eny kynne geftes,
Be fraunchised for a free-man,
And have fals name.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 3#vs1548|1548]]{{anchor|notevs1548}}. Job, xv, 34 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1611|1611]]{{anchor|notevs1611}}. ''Youre fader she felled.'' An allusion to the deposition and death of Edward II.

[[../Passus 3#vs1652|1652]]{{anchor|notevs1652}}. Provisors were people who obtained from the pope the reversion of ecclesiastical dignities, and several severe statutes were made against them, one well-known one by Edward III.

[[../Passus 3#vs1674|1674]]{{anchor|notevs1674}}. ''Love-daies.'' See further on, the [[#notevs5634|note]] on l. 5634.

[[../Passus 3#vs1735|1735]]{{anchor|notevs1735}}. ''In Normandie.'' [[../Passus 3#vs1750|1750]]{{anchor|notevs1750}}. ''To Caleis.'' Allusions, no doubt, to recent events in the wars of Edward III. See the Introduction.

[[../Passus 3#vs1769|1769]]{{anchor|notevs1769}}. ''Caytiflyche thow, Conscience, | Consailedist the kyng leten | In hus enemys honde | Ys heritage of Fraunce.'' Whit.

[[../Passus 3#vs1827|1827]]{{anchor|notevs1827}}. Psalm xiv, 1 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1835|1835]]{{anchor|notevs1835}}. Ps. xiv, 2 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1845|1845]]{{anchor|notevs1845}}. Ps. xiv, 5 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1862|1862]]{{anchor|notevs1862}}. Psalm xxv, 10 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1875|1875]]{{anchor|notevs1875}}. Matth. vi, 5 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1885|1885]]{{anchor|notevs1885}}. ''Regum.'' The reference is to 1 Sam. xv, which in the old Vulgate was called ''primus liber regum''.

[[../Passus 3#vs1985|1985]]{{anchor|notevs1985}}, [[../Passus 3#vs2019|2019]]{{anchor|notevs2019}}. Isaiah ii, 4 .

[[../Passus 3#vs2043|2043]]{{anchor|notevs2043}}. Prov. xxii, 9 . Victoriam et honorem acquiret qui dat munera; animam autem aufert accipientium.

[[../Passus 4#vs2099|2099]]{{anchor|notevs2099}}. ''lernest.'' Whitaker's text has ''ledest''.

[[../Passus 4#vs2149|2149]]{{anchor|notevs2149}}. Psalm xiii, 3 . The quotation which follows is from the same verse.

[[../Passus 4#vs2171|2171]]{{anchor|notevs2171}}. ''his sone.'' The Black Prince, who was a great favourite with the people.

[[../Passus 4#vs2175|2175]]{{anchor|notevs2175}}-[[../Passus 4#vs2186|2186]]. The variation in Whitaker's text deserves notice. This passage there stands as follows{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thenne cam Pees into parlement,
And putte up a bylle.
How that Wrong wilfullich
Hadde hus wif for-leyen;
And how he ravysed Rose,
The riche widewe, by nyghte;
And Margarete of here maidenhod,
As he met hure late.
'Both my goos, and my grys,
And my gras he taketh,
Ich dar nouht for is felaweshepe,
In faith!' Pees saide,
'Bere sickerlich eny selver
To seint Gyles doune;
He watteth ful wel,
Wan ich sulfere taketh,
Wat wey ich wende.
Wel yerne he aspieth,
To robbe me and to ryfle me,
Yf ich ride softe.
Yut he is bolde for to borwe,
And baldelich he payeth:
He borwede of me Bayarde,' etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 4#vs2177|2177]]{{anchor|notevs2177}}. ''How Wrong ayeins his wille.'' What follows is a true picture of the oppressions to which the peasantry were frequently subjected by the king's purveyors, and by others in power. See the Political Songs, pp. 377, 378; and Hartshorne's Ancient Metrical Tales, pp. 41, 42.

[[../Passus 4#vs2197|2197]]{{anchor|notevs2197}}. ''taillé'', a tally. See the Political Songs, as above quoted. Whitaker translates this passage, which stands thus in his edition,

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And taketh me bote a taile
For ten quarters other twelve,
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


by, &quot;and for ten or twelve quarters of it repaid me but ''a sheep's tail''!&quot;

[[../Passus 4#vs2298|2298]]{{anchor|notevs2298}}. ''in my stokkes.'' In my prison. Prisons were usually furnished with stocks, in which, instead of fetters, prisoners were set.

[[../Passus 4#vs2323|2323]]{{anchor|notevs2323}}. ''Beneyt.'' St. Benedict, the founder of the Benedictine order; St. Bernard, of the order of Cistercians; St. Francis, of the Franciscans.

[[../Passus 4#vs2335|2335]]{{anchor|notevs2335}}. ''Galis.'' Compostello in Galicia.

[[../Passus 5#vs2473|2473]]{{anchor|notevs2473}}. ''Passus Quintus.'' In Whitaker's text, this section, which is called ''Passus Sextus'', is prefaced by the following long exordium, intended as a satire against the mendicant friars{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thus ich awaked, God wot!
Wanne ich wonede on Cornhulle,
Kytte and ich in a cote,
Clothede as a lollere:
And a lytel ich let by,
Leyve me, for sothe,
Among lolleres of London,
And lewede heremytes.
For ich made of the men,
As Reson me tauhte.
For as ich cam by Conscience,
Wit Reson ich mette,
In an hote hervest,
Wenne ich hadde myn hele,
And lymes to labore with,
And lovede wel fare,
And no dede to do
Bote drynke and to slepe,
In hele and in unité,
On me aposede,
Romynge in remembraunce.
Thus Reson me arated:
'Canstow serven,' he seide,
'Other syngen in a churche?
Other loke for my cokers?
Other to the carte picche?
Mowe, other mowen,
Other make bond to sheves?
Repe, other be a repe-reyve
And arise erliche?
Other have an horne and be hay-warde,
And liggen out a nyghtes,
And kepe my corn in my croft
From pykers and theeves?
Other shap shoon other clothes?
Other shep other kyne kepe?
Eggen, other harwen,
Other swyne other gees dryve?
Other eny kyne craft
That to the comune nudeth,
Hem that bed-reden be
Bylyve to fynde?'

{{gap|0.7em}}'Certes,' ich seyde,
'And so me God helpe!
Ich am to waik to worche
With sykel other with sythe;
And to long, leyf me,
Lowe for to stoupe,
To worchen as workeman
Eny wyle to dure.'
'Then havest thow londes to lyve by,'
Quath Reson, 'other lynage ryche
That fynden the thy fode?
For an hydel man thow semest,
A spendour that spende mot,
Other a spille-tyme;
Other beggest thy lyve
Aboute ate menne hatches;
Other faitest upon Fridays
Other feste dayes in churches;
The wiche is lollerene lyf,
That lytel is preysed
Ther ryghtfulnesse rewardeth
Ryght as men deserveth.
''Reddit unicuique juxta opera sua.''
Ether thow ert broke, so may be,
In body other in membre,
Other y-maymed thorow som myshap.
Werby thow myght be excusede.'
'Wanne ich yong was,' quath ich,
'Many yer hennes,
My fader and my frendes
Founden me to scole,
Tyl ich wiste wyterliche
Wat holy wryt menede,
And wat is best for the body,
As the bok telleth,
And sykerest for the soule,
By so ich wolle continue.
And yut fond ich never in faith,
Sytthen my frendes deyden,
Lyf that me lyked,
Bote in thes long clothes.
Hyf ich by laboure sholde lyf,
And lyflode deserven,
That labour that ich lerned best
Therwhit lyve ich sholde.
''In eadem vocatione qua vocati estis.''
And ich lyve in Londene
And on Londen bothe.
The lomes that ich laboure with
And lyflode deserve,
Ys paternoster and my prymer,
''Placebo et dirige'',
And my sauter some tyme,
And my sevene psalmes.
Thus ich synge for hure soules
Of suche as me helpen.
And the that fynden me my fode
Vochen saf, ich trowe,
To be wolcome wan ich come
Other wyle in a monthe,
Now with hym, and now with hure,
And thus gate ich begge
Withoute bagge other botel,
Bote my wombe one.
And also, moreover,
Me thynketh, syre Reson,
Men sholde constreyne
No clerke to knavene werkes.
For by law of Livitici,
That oure Lord ordeynede,
Clerkes that aren crowned
Of kynde understondyng,
Sholde nother swynke ne swete,
Ne swere at enquestes,
Ne fyghte in no vauntwarde,
Ne hus fo greve.
''Nou reddas malum pro malo.''
For it ben aires of hevene,
And alle that ben crounede
And in queer in churches,
Cristes owene mynestres.
''Dominus pars hæreditatis meæ''

{{gap|0.7em}}''Et alibi, Clementia non constringit.''
Hit bycometh for clerkus
Crist for to serven;
And knaves uncrounede
To cart and to worche.
For shold no clerk be crouned,
Bote yf he y-come were
Of franklens and freemen
And of folke y-weddede.
Bondmen and bastardes,
And beggers children,
Thuse bylongeth to labour.
And lordes children sholde serven,
Bothe God and good men,
As here degree asketh;
Some to synge masses,
Others sitten and wryte,
Rede and receyve
That Reson oughte spende.
And sith bondemenne barnes
Han be made bisshopes,
And barnes bastardes
Han ben archidekenes;
And sopers and here sones
For selver han be knyghtes,
And lordene sones here laboreres,
And leid here rentes to wedden
For the ryght of the reame,
Ryden ayens oure enemys,
In consort of the comune
And the kynges worshep.
And monkes and moniales.
That mendinauns sholden fynde,
Han mad here kyn knyghtes,
And knyght fees purchase.
Popes and patrones
Povre gentil blod refuseth,
And taken Symondes sonne
Seyntewarie to kepe.
Lyf-holynesse and love
Han ben longe hennes,
And wole, til hit be wered out,
Or otherwise y-chaunged.
For-thy rebuke me ryht nouht,
Reson, ich yow praye;
For in my conscience ich knowe
What Crist wolde that ich wroughte.
Preyers of perfyt man,
And penaunce discret,
Is the levest labour
That oure Lord pleseth.
''Non de solo'', ich seyde,
For sothe ''vivit homo'',
''Nec in pane et pabulo'',
The paternoster witnesseth.
''Fiat voluntas tua''
Fynt ous alle thynges.'
Quath Conscience, 'By Crist!
Ich can nat see this lyeth.
Ac it semeth nouht perfitnesse
In cyties for to begge,
Bote he be obediencer
To pryour other to mynstre.'
'That ys soth,' ich seide,
'And so ich by-knowe
That ich have tynt tyme,
And tyme mys-spended.
And yut ich hope, as he
That ofte haveth chaffarede,
That ay hath lost and lost,
And at the latest hym happeth
He bouhte suche a bargayn
He was the bet evere,
And sette hus lost at a lef
At the laste ende;
Suche a wynnynge hym warth
Thorw wyrdes of his grace.
''Simile est regnum cœlorum thesauro abscondito in agro, etc.''

{{gap|0.7em}}''Mulier quæ inveniet dragmam, etc.''
So hope ich to have of hym
That his almyghty
A gobet of hus grace,
And bygynne a tyme
That alle tymes of my tyme
To profit shal turne.'
'Ich rede the,' quath Reson tho,
'Rathe the to bygynne
The lyf that ys lowable
And leel to the soule.'
'Ye, and continue,' quath Conscience.
And to the church ich wente.

{{gap|0.7em}}And to the church gan ich go,
God to honourie,
Byfor the crois on my knees
Knocked ich my brest,
Sykinge for my sennes,
Segginge my paternoster,
Wepyng and wailinge,
Tyl ich was a-slepe
Thenne mete me moche more
Than ich byfor tolde,
Of the mater that ich mete fyrst
On Malverne hulles.
Ich sawe the feld ful of folk
Fram ende to the other;
And Reson revested
Ryght as a pope,
And Conscience his crocer
Byfore the kynge stande.
Reson reverentliche
Byfor all the reame
Prechede and provede
That thuse pestilences
Was for pure synne, etc.
{{gap|1.4em}}''See'' l. [[../Passus 5#vs2497|2497]], of the present edition.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs2497|2497]]{{anchor|notevs2497}}. ''thise pestilences.''—There were three great pestilences in the reign of Edward III, the terrible effects of which were long fresh in people's minds, and they were often taken as points from which to date common events. Two of them had passed at the period when the Visions of Piers Ploughman are believed to have been written, and are the ones here alluded to. Of the first, or great pestilence, which lasted from 31 May, 1348, to 29 Sept. 1349, the contemporary chroniclers give a fearful account. In a register of the Abbey of Gloucester (MS. Cotton. Domit. A. VIII, fol. 124), we have the following entry:—&quot;Anno Domini m{{sup|o}}.ccc{{sup|o}}.xlviij{{sup|o}}. anno vero regni regis Edwardi III, post conquestum xxij{{sup|o}}. incepit magna pestilentia in Anglia, ita quod ''vix tertia pars'' hominum remansit.&quot; This pestilence, known as the ''black plague'', ravaged most parts of Europe, and is said to have carried off in general about two-thirds of the people. It was the pestilence which gave rise to the Decameron of Boccaccio. For an interesting account of it, see Michelet's Hist. de France, iii, 342-349. The second pestilence lasted from 15 Aug. 1361, to May 3, 1362, and was much less severe. The third pestilence raged from 2 July to 29 September, 1369.

[[../Passus 5#vs2500|2500]]{{anchor|notevs2500}}. ''The south-westrene wynd | on Saterday at even.'' Tyrwhitt, in his Preface to Chaucer, first pointed out the identity of this wind with the one mentioned by the old chroniclers (Thorn, Decem. Script. col. 2122; Walsingham, p. 178; the continuator of Adam Murimuth, p. 115), as occurring on the evening of Jan. 15, 1362. The fifteenth of January in that year was a Saturday. The following is the account given by Walsingham: &quot;Anno gratiæ millesimo trecentesimo sexagesimo secundo, qui est annus regni regis Edwardi a conquestu tertii tricesimus sextus, tenuit rex natale apud Wyndesor, et quinto decimo die sequente ventus vehemens, nothus auster affricus, tanta vi erupit, quod flatu suo domos altas, ædificia sublimia, turres, et campanilia, arbores, et alia quæque durabilia et fortia violenter prostravit pariter et impegit, in tantum quod residua quæ modo extant, sunt hactenus infirmiora.&quot; The continuator of Murimuth is more particular as to the time of the day, and in other respects more exact. &quot;A.D. m. ccc. lxii, xv die Januarii, ''circa horam vesperarum'', ventus vehemens notus australis affricus tanta rabie erupit,&quot; etc.

[[../Passus 5#vs2529|2529]]{{anchor|notevs2529}}. ''And fecche Felis his wyf | Fro wyuene pyne.'' MS. Trin. Col. 2.

[[../Passus 5#vs2547|2547]]{{anchor|notevs2547}}. This was a very old and very common proverb in England. Thus in the Proverbs of Hending (Reliquiæ Antiquæ, vol. i, p. 110){{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ne bue thi child never so duere,
Ant hit wolle unthewes lerne,
{{gap|0.7em}}Bet hit other whyle;
Mote hit al habben is wille,
Woltou nultou hit wolle spille,
{{gap|0.7em}}Ant bicome a fule.
''Luef child lore byhoveth'';
{{gap|4.2em}}Quoth Hendyng.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The proverb is a little varied in another copy of these &quot;Proverbs,&quot; p. 194 of the same work. There is a German proverb closely resembling it, &quot;Je lieberes Kind, je schärfere Ruthe.&quot;

[[../Passus 5#vs2551|2551]]{{anchor|notevs2551}}. Prov. xiii, 24 .

[[../Passus 5#vs2569|2569]]{{anchor|notevs2569}}. After this line Whitaker's text has inserted a passage, answering nearly word for word (except in the few first lines) to the passage in our text, ll. 6218-6274.

[[../Passus 5#vs2573|2573]]{{anchor|notevs2573}}. In the same text, the following lines are here added{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
'And also,' quath Reson,
'Ich rede yow, riche
And comuners, to acorden
In alle kynne treuthe.
Let no kynne consail
Ne covetyze yow departe,
That on wit and on wil
Alle youre wardes kepe.
Lo! in hevene on hy
Was an holy comune,
Til Lucifer the lyere
Leyved that hymselve
Were wittyour and worthiour
Than he that was hus maister.
Hold yow in unité.
And ye that hother wolde
Is cause of alle combraunce
To confounde a reame.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs2586|2586]]{{anchor|notevs2586}}. Matt. xxv, 12 .

[[../Passus 5#vs2594|2594]]{{anchor|notevs2594}}. Whitaker's ''Passus Sextus'' ends with this line.

[[../Passus 5#vs2625|2625]]{{anchor|notevs2625}}. Before Envy's confession, and in the place of Lechery, Whitaker's text introduces the confession of Pride—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ich, Pruyde, patientliche
Penaunce ich aske;
For ich formest and ferst
To fader and to moder
Have y-be unboxome,
Ich beseche God of mercy;
And unboxome y-be,
Nouht abaissed to agulte
God and alle good men,
So gret was myn herte;
Inobedient to holy churche,
And to hem that ther serven,
Demed for hure yvel vices,
And excited othere
Thorw my word and al my wit
Hure yvel workes to shewe;
And scorned hem and othere,
Yf a skyle founde,
Lauhynge al aloude,
For lewede men sholde
Wene that ich were witty
And wyser than anothere;
Scorner and unskilful to hem
That skil shewede,
In all manere manners
My name to be y-knowe,
Semeng a sovereyn on,
Wer so me byfulle
To telle eny tale.
Ich trowede me wiser
To carpen other to counsaile
Than eny, lered other lewede.
Proud of aparail
In porte amonge the puple,
Otherwise than ich have,
Withynne other withoute,
Me wilnede that men wende
Ich were in aveyr
Riche and resonable,
And ryghtful of lyvynge;
Bostynge and braggynge
Wyt meny bolde othes;
Avauntyng upon my veine glorie
For eny undernemynge;
And yut so syngeler by myself
Ne non so pomp holy,
Som tyme on a secte,
Sam tyme on another;
In all kynne covetyse
Contrevede how ich myghte
Be holde for holy,
And hondred sithe by that encheison;
Wilnede that men wende
My werkes were the beste
And konnygest of my craft,
Clerkes other othere,
And strengest upon my stede,
And styvest under gurdell,
And lovelokest to loken on,
And lykyngest a-bedde;
And lykynge of such a lif
That no lawe preyseth;
Proud of my faire fetours;
And for ich songe shrille;
And what ich gaf for Godes love,
To godsybbes ich tolde,
Ther to wene that ich were
Wel holy and wel almesful.
And non so bold begger
To bydden an[d] crave,
Tales to telle
In tavernes and in stretes,
Thyng that nevere was thouhte,
And yut ich swor ich sauh hit,
And lyed on my lykame
And on my lyf bothe.
Of werkes that ich wel dude
Witnesse ich take,
And syggen to such
That sytten me bysyde,
'Lo! yf ye leyve me nouht,
Other that ye wene ich lye,
Ask of hym other of hure,
And thei conne yow telle
What ich soffrede an[d] seih,
And som tyme hadde,
And what ich knew and couthe,
Of wat kyn ich kam of;
Al ich wolde that men wuste,
When it to pruyde sonede,
As to preised among the puple,
Thauh ich povre semede.'
''Si hominibus placerem, Christi servus non essem. Nemo potest duobus dominis servire.''
'Now God, of hus goodnesse,
Geve the grace to amende!'
Quath Repentaunce ryght with that;
And thenne roos Envye.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The description of Envy, which follows, is shorter in Whitaker's text, and differs much from our text.

[[../Passus 5#vs2819|2819]]{{anchor|notevs2819}}-[[../Passus 5#vs2822|2822]]. The discipline here described seems to have been peculiar to the chapter-house of the monasteries. Matth. Paris, p. 848, has an anecdote which illustrates curiously this passage of Piers Ploughman. In speaking of the turbulent Falcasius de Breuté, who had been warned in a vision to offer himself to suffer penance in the monastery of St. Albans, in the reign of Henry III, he says, &quot;Vestibus igitur spoliatus cum suis militibus, similiter indumentis spoliatis, ferens in manu virgam quam vulgariter ''baleis'' appellamus, et confitens culpam suam, ... a singulis fratribus disciplinas nuda carne suscepit.&quot;

[[../Passus 5#vs2846|2846]]{{anchor|notevs2846}}. In the text which Whitaker has printed, the confession of Wrath was followed by that of Luxury or Lechery. It stands as follows in the copy of the same text in MS. Cotton. Vespas. B. xvi. (''See'' l. [[../Passus 13#vs8713|8713]], of our present text.)

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thanne seide Lecherie, Alas!
And to oure Ladi criede,
'Ladi, for thi leve sone,
Loute for me nouthe,
That he have pité on me, putour,
For his pure merci.'
'With that I schal,' quod that schrewe,
'Saterdaies, for thi love,
Drynke with the doke,
And dine but ones.'

{{gap|0.7em}}I, gulti in gost,
To God I me schrive,
As in likyng of lecherige
My licames gultes,
In wordes, in wedes,
In waityng of eyen,
To eche maide that I mette
I made here a sigge,
Semyng to synne-ward,
And summe can I taste
Aboute the mouth, and binethe
Bigon I to grope,
Til bothe oure wil was on,
To werke we yeden,
As wel fastyng daies,
And hi festes eves,
And wel in Lente as out of Lente,
Al tymes i-liche;
Swiche werkes with us
Weren nevere out of seson,
Til we mighten ne more,
Tho hadde we muri tales
Of putrige and of paramours,
And provede thorw speche,
Handelyng, and halsyng,
And also thorw cussyng,
Excityng heither other
To oure elde synne;
Sotilde songes,
And sente out elde baudes
For te wynne to my wil
Wemmen with gile;
Bi sorcerie sum time,
And sum time be maistrie,
I lai bi the lovelokest,
And lovede hem nevere aftur.

{{gap|0.7em}}Whan I was eld and hor,
And hadde i-lorn that kynde,
I hadde likyng to lige
Of lecherous tales.
Now, lord, for thi lewté,
On lecheres have merci.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs2850|2850]]{{anchor|notevs2850}}. ''Sire Hervy.'' Whitaker and Price (in Warton) suppose that there is here a personal allusion, which at the time had become proverbial.

[[../Passus 5#vs2874|2874]]{{anchor|notevs2874}}. ''Symme at the Style.'' Whit.

[[../Passus 5#vs2881|2881]]{{anchor|notevs2881}}. ''To Wy and to Wynchestre | I wente to the feyre.'' Warton (Hist. of Eng. p. ii, 55, edit. 1840) supposes Wy to be Weyhill, in Hampshire, &quot;where a famous fair still subsists.&quot; In fact it is one of the greatest fairs in England, lasting ten days. For anecdotes of the celebrity of the great fair at Winchester in former times, and for some interesting observations on fairs in general, ''see'' Warton, loc. cit.

[[../Passus 5#vs2933|2933]]{{anchor|notevs2933}}. ''The Roode of Bromholm.'' At the Priory of Bromholm, in Norfolk, there was a celebrated cross, said to be made of fragments of the real cross, and much resorted to by pilgrims. It was brought from Constantinople to England in 1223. The history of this cross, and the miracles said to have been performed by it at Bromholm, are told by Matthew Paris (p. 268). In the MS. Chronicle of Barthol. de Cotton, it is recorded at the date 1223, &quot;Eo tempore Peregrinatio de Bromholm incepit.&quot;

[[../Passus 5#vs2949|2949]]{{anchor|notevs2949}}. ''Frensshe ... of Northfolk.'' Norfolk, it would appear by this, was one of the least refined parts of the island.

[[../Passus 5#vs3030|3030]]{{anchor|notevs3030}}. In this part of the poem, the smaller variations between the present text and Whitaker's are very numerous. After this line, the following passage is inserted{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
With false wordes and writes
Ich have wonne my goodes,
And with gyle and glosynge
Gadered that ich have;
Meddled my merchaundise,
And mad a good moustre,
The werst lay withynne,
A gret wit ich let hit.
And yf my neyhgebore had an hyne,
Other eny best ellys,
More profitable than myn,
Ich made meny wentes,
How ich myght have hit
Al my wit ich caste;
And bote ich hadde hit by othes away,
At last ich stal hit,
Other pryvyliche hus pors shok,
Unpiked his lokes.
And yf ich yede to the plouh,
Ich pynchede on hus half acre,
That a fot londe other a forwe
Fetchen ich wolde
Of my neyhgeboris next,
Nymen of hus erthe,
And yf y repe, over reche,
Other gaf hem red that repen
To sese to me with here sykel,
That ich sewe nevere.
In haly dayes at holy churche
Wenne ich hurde messe,
Ich hadde nevere witerlich
To byseche mercy
For my mysdedes,
That ich ne mornede ofter
For lost of good, leyve me,
Then for lycames gultes.
Thauh ich dedliche synne dude,
Ich dradde hit nat so sore
As wenne ich lenede and leyvede hit lost,
Other longe er hit were paied.
And yf [ich] sente over see
My servaunt to Brugges,
Other into Prus my prentys,
My profit to awaite,
To marchaunde with monye
And maken here eshaunge,
Myght nevere man comforty me
In the meyn time,
Neither matyns ne masse,
Ne othere manere syghtes,
And nevere penaunce performede,
Ne paternoster seyde.
That my mynde ne was
More in my goodes,
Than in Godes grace,
And hus grete myghte.
''Ubi thesaurus tuus, ibi cor tuum.''
{{gap|2.8em}}''See'' ll. [[../Passus 13#vs8751|8751]]-[[../Passus 13#vs8827|8827]].
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs3039|3039]]{{anchor|notevs3039}}. Psa. l, 8 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3083|3083]]{{anchor|notevs3083}}. The confessions of the robber and the glutton are reversed in Whitaker's text, and present many variations. The robber's confession is there preceded by the following curious lines{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Then was ther a Walishman
That was wonderlich sory,
He hight Yyvan Yeld ageyn;
'If ich so moche have,
Al that ich wickedlich wan
Setthen ich hit hadde;
And thauh my liflode lache
Leten ich nelle
That ech man shal have hus,
Er ich hennes wende.
For me ys levere in this lif
As a lorel beggen,
Than in lysse to lyve,
And lese lyf and soule.'
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs3162|3162]]{{anchor|notevs3162}}. Between this line and the next, MS. Trin. Col. 2, inserts ''Bargoynes and beverechis | Begonne for to arise.''

[[../Passus 5#vs3277|3277]]{{anchor|notevs3277}}, [[../Passus 5#vs3278|3278]]{{anchor|notevs3278}}. ''rymes of Robyn Hood | and Randolf erl of Chestre.'' This seems to be the earliest mention of the ballads of Robin Hood which can now be found. Ritson was quite mistaken (Robin Hood, Introd. p. xlix) in the supposed mention of him by the prior of Alnwick, the title of the Latin song being modern. The passage of Fordun, in which Robin Hood is spoken of, is probably an interpolation.

I am not sure that Ritson is right in taking the ''Randolf erl of Chester'' of Piers Ploughman, to be Ranulf de Blundevile: it is quite as probable that he was the Ranulf of Chester of the days of Stephen, whose turbulent deeds may have been the subject of popular ballads. Warton (H. E. P. ii, 373), quoting the passage of Piers Ploughman with the word ''erl'' omitted, conceives it to mean Ralph Higden, and imagines the ''rymes'' to be the Chester Mysteries, of which he conjectured that Ralph Higden was the author.

[[../Passus 5#vs3311|3311]]{{anchor|notevs3311}}. ''Ite missa est.'' The concluding sentence of the service of the Mass.

[[../Passus 5#vs3408|3408]]{{anchor|notevs3408}}. ''the Rode of Chestre.'' There was a celebrated cross or rood at Chester, which was long an object of great veneration, and even of pilgrimage, among our Roman Catholic forefathers. &quot;I do not recollect any thing remarkable (says Mr. Pennant, speaking of Chester) on the outside of the walls which has been unnoticed, unless it be the Rood-eye, and the adjacent places.&quot;—&quot;The name of this spot is taken from ''eye'', its watery situation, and rood, the cross which stood there, whose base is still to be seen.&quot; Pennant's Tour in Wales, edit. 1778, p. 191. According to Gough's Camden, the base was still remaining in 1789.

[[../Passus 5#vs3410|3410]]{{anchor|notevs3410}}. ''Roberd the robbere.'' This name is rather curious in conjunction with the term ''Roberdesmen'' mentioned in the [[#notevs88|note]] on l. 88. It was no uncommon practice to give punning names in this way to people or classes of people. In a Latin song of the reign of Henry III (Political Songs, p. 49), we have a very curious instance of it, one of the names being, as here, ''Robert''{{nowrap|:—}}

Competentur per ''Robert'', ''robbur'' designatur; Robertus excoriat, extorquet, et minatur.— Vir quicunque rabidus consors est Roberto.

Still earlier (12th cent.) a scribe says of one of his brothers, &quot;Secundus dicebatur ''Robertus'', quia a re nomen habuit, ''spoliator'' enim diu fuit et ''prædo''.&quot; (Polit. Songs, p. 354.)

[[../Passus 5#vs3419|3419]]{{anchor|notevs3419}}. ''Dysmas.'' In middle-age legends, Dismas and Gestas were the names of the two thieves who were crucified with Christ. The former was the one who believed in the Saviour, and received a promise of paradise.

[[../Passus 5#vs3443|3443]]{{anchor|notevs3443}}. Before this line, Whitaker's text has the following passage{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ac whiche be the braunches
That bryngeth me to sleuthe,
Ys wanne a man mourneth nat
For hus mysdedes;
The penaunce that the prest enjoyneth
Parfourmeth uvele;
Doth non almys-dedes,
And drat nat of synne:
Lyveth ayens the byleyve,
And no lawe kepeth;
And hath no lykynge to lerne,
Ne of houre Lord hure,
Bote harlotrie other horedom,
Other elles of som wynnyng.
Wan men carpen of Crist
Other of clennesse of soule,
He wext wroth, and wol not huyre
Bote wordes of murthe,
Penaunce and povre men,
The passion of seyntes,
He hateth to huyre therof
And alle that therof carpen.
Thuse beth the braunches, be war,
That bryngeth man to wanhope.
Ye lordes and ladyes,
And legates of holy churche,
That feden fool sages,
Flaterers and lyers,
And han lykynge to lythen hem,
In hope to do yow lawe—
''Væ! vobis qui ridetis, etc.''
And geveth suche mede an mete,
And povre men refusen;
In youre deth deynge,
Ich drede me sore
Lest the maner men
To moche sorwe yow brynge.
''Consensientes et agentes pari pæna punientur.''
Patriarkes and prophetes,
Prechours of Godes wordes,
Saven thorgh here sermons
Mannes soule fro helle:
Ryght so flaterers and foles
Aren the fendes procuratores,
Entysen men thorgh here tales
To synne and to harlotrie.
Clerkus that knowen this,
Sholde kennen lordes
What David seide of suche men,
As the Sauter telleth:
''Non habitabit in medio domus meæ qui facit superbiam, qui loquitur iniquum.''
Sholde non harlot have audience
In halle ne in chaumbre,
Ther that wys men were.
Whitnesse of Godes wordes;
Nother a mys-prout man
Among lordes alouwed.
Clerkus and knyghtes
Wolcometh kynges mynstrales,
For love of here lordes
Lithen hem at festes:
Muche more, me thenketh,
Riche men auhte
Have beggers byfore hem,
Wiche beth Godes mynstreles,
As he seith hymself,
Seynt Johan berith whittnesse:
''Qui vos spernit, me etiam spernit.''
Therfor ich rede yow, riche,
Reveles when ye maken,
For to solace youre soules,
Suche mynstrales to have,
The povre for a foul sage
Syttynge at thy table,
Whith a lered man to lere the
What oure Lord suffrede,
For to savy thy saule
Fram Satan thyn enemye,
And fitayle the withoute flateryng
Of Good Friday the feste:
And a blynde man for a bordiour,
Other a bed-reden womman
To crye a largesse byfor oure Lord,
Youre good loos to shewe.
Thuse thre manere mynstrales
Maken a man to lauhe;
In hus deth deyng
Thei don hym gret comfort,
That by hus lyfe loveth hem,
And loveth hem to huyre.
Thuse solaceth the soule,
Til hymself be falle
In a wele good hope, for he wroghte so,
Among worthy seyntes,
Ther flaterers and foles
Whith here foule wordes
Leden the that lithen hem
To Luciferes feste,
With ''Turpiloquio'', a lay of sorwe,
And Lucifers fitele,
To perpetual peyne
Other purgatorye as wykke,
For he litheth and loveth
That Godes lawe despiteth.
''Qui histrionibus dat, dæmonibus sacrificat.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs3466|3466]]{{anchor|notevs3466}}. ''qui manet, &amp;c.'' Epist. Joan. iv, 16 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3477|3477]]{{anchor|notevs3477}}. Epist. Paul, ad Ephes. iv, 8 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3484|3484]]{{anchor|notevs3484}}. Isai. ix, 2 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3496|3496]]{{anchor|notevs3496}}. Matt. ix, 13 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3502|3502]]{{anchor|notevs3502}}. John i, 14 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3520|3520]]{{anchor|notevs3520}}. Psalm xxxv, 8 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3545|3545]]{{anchor|notevs3545}}. ''Signes of Synay, | and shelles of Galice ... keyes of Rome.'' It is perhaps hardly necessary to remark that the articles mentioned here were borne by the pilgrim to indicate the particular holy sites which he had visited. The reader will readily call to mind the lines of a modern poet{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
The summon'd Palmer came in place,
His sable cowl o'erhung his face;
In his black mantle was he clad,
With ''Peter's keys'' in cloth of red
{{gap|0.7em}}On his broad shoulders wrought;
The ''scallop shell'' his cap did deck;
The crucifix around his neck
{{gap|0.7em}}Was from Loretto brought.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs3622|3622]]{{anchor|notevs3622}}. ''Seint Thomas shryne.'' St. Thomas of Canterbury. It may not perhaps be generally known that an interesting description of this shrine, when in its glory, is given by Erasmus, Colloq. ''Peregrinatio Religionis ergo.''

[[../Passus 5#vs3713|3713]]{{anchor|notevs3713}}. ''eten apples un-rosted.'' One of the many specimens of the burlesque manner in which scripture was frequently quoted in these times. A very singular passage (but in a tract professedly burlesque) occurs in the Reliquiæ Antiquæ, vol. i, p. 83:—&quot;Peter askud Adam a full greyt dowtfull question, and seyd, 'Adam, Adam, why ete thu the appull unpard?' 'For sothe,' quod he, 'for y had no wardyns fryde.'&quot;

[[../Passus 6#vs3826|3826]]{{anchor|notevs3826}}. ''leven'', should be ''lenen''.

[[../Passus 6#vs3890|3890]]{{anchor|notevs3890}}. Luke xiv, 10 .

[[../Passus 6#vs3944|3944]]{{anchor|notevs3944}}, [[../Passus 6#vs3948|3948]]{{anchor|notevs3948}}. Psalm lxviii, 29 .

[[../Passus 6#vs3997|3997]]{{anchor|notevs3997}}. ''the rode of Lukes.'' The second Trin. Col. MS. has ''be the rode of Chestre.'' There was a famous cross at Lucca, but whether a part of the real cross, I have not ascertained. Calvin, in his most able and entertaining ''Admonitio de Reliquiis'', declines undertaking a list of all the places where pieces of the real cross were shown. &quot;Denique si congesta in acervum essent omnia quæ reperiri possent, integrum navis onus efficerent: cum tamen evangelium testificetur ab unico homine ferri potuisse. Quantæ igitur audaciæ fuit, ligneis frustis sic totum implere orbem, quibus ferendis ne trecenti quidem homines sufficiant?&quot; ''Calvini'', ''Opusc.'' p. 277. There was also at Lucca one of the impressions of our Saviour's face on the handkerchief of Veronica. The peculiar oath of William Rufus was by the holy face at Lucca.

[[../Passus 6#vs4027|4027]]{{anchor|notevs4027}}. ''with hey trolly lolly.'' MS. Trin. Col. 2.

[[../Passus 6#vs4154|4154]]{{anchor|notevs4154}}. In the second Trin. Col. MS. the passage stands as follows{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ne hadde Peris but a pese lof,
Thei preyede hym beleve,
And with a bene batte
He hadde betwene,
And hitte hunger therwith
Amydde hise lippes,
And blodde in it the bodyward
A bolle ful of growel,
Ne hadde the fisician ferst
Defendite him watir,
To abate the barly bred,
And the benis y-grounde,
Thei hadde be ded be this day,
And dolven al warm.
Faitours for fer, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 6#vs4194|4194]]{{anchor|notevs4194}}. ''Thei corven here coppes, | and courtepies made.'' Whitaker, who translates it, &quot;They ''carved wooden cups'', and made themselves short cloaks.&quot; It ought to be, &quot;They cut their copes to make courtpies (a kind of short cloaks) of them.&quot;

[[../Passus 6#vs4242|4242]]{{anchor|notevs4242}}. Paul Epist. ad Galat. vi, 2 .

[[../Passus 6#vs4251|4251]]{{anchor|notevs4251}}. Scimus enim qui dixit, mihi vindicta, et ego retribuam. Paul. ad Heb. x, 30 ; conf. Paul. ad Rom. xii, 19 .

[[../Passus 6#vs4256|4256]]{{anchor|notevs4256}}. Luke xvi, 9 .

[[../Passus 6#vs4272|4272]]{{anchor|notevs4272}}. Propter frigus piger arare noluit. Prov. xx, 4 .

[[../Passus 6#vs4306|4306]]{{anchor|notevs4306}}. Labores manuum tuarum quia manducabis, beatus es et bene tibi erit. Psal. cxxvii, 2 .

[[../Passus 6#vs4336|4336]]. ''His mawe is alongid.'' MS. Trin. Coll. 2.

[[../Passus 6#vs4336|4336]]{{anchor|notevs4336}}. Whitaker's text inserts here the following passage, which is curious as containing the same word, ''latchdrawers'', that occurs in Edward's statute, quoted before in the [[#notevs88|note]] to l. 88{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thenk that Dives for hus delicat lyf
To the devel wente,
And Lazar the lene beggere
That longed after cromes,
And yut had he hem nat,
For ich Hunger culde hym,
And suthe ich sauh hym sute,
As he a syre were,
At alle manere ese
In Abrahame lappe.
An yf you be of power,
Peers, ich the rede,
Alle that greden at thy gate
For Godes love after fede,
Parte wit hem of thy payn,
Of potage and of souel,
Lene hem som of thy loof,
Thauh thu the lesse chewe.
And thauh lyers and latchedrawers,
And lolleres knocke,
Let hem abyde tyl the bord be drawe,
Ac bere hem none cromes,
Tyl al thyn nedy neihebores
Have none y-maked.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 6#vs4339|4339]]{{anchor|notevs4339}}. ''Phisik ... hise furred hodes ... his cloke of Calabre.'' Whitaker cites, in illustration of the dress of the physician, the costume still worn by the Doctors of Medicine in the universities. Chaucer gives the following description of the dress of the &quot;Doctour of Phisike&quot;{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
In sangwin and in pers he clad was al,
Lyned with taffata, and with sendal.
{{gap|9.8em}}([[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Prologue#441|Cant. T. Prolog. 441.]])
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


''Calabre'' appears to have been a kind of fur: a document in Rymer, quoted by Ducange, speaks of an ''indumentum foderatum cum Calabre''.

[[../Passus 6#vs4390|4390]]{{anchor|notevs4390}}. ''ripe chiries manye.'' This passage, joined with the mention of cherry-time in l. 2794, shows that cherries were a common fruit in the fourteenth century. &quot;Mr. Gough, in his British Topography, says that cherries were first brought in by the Romans, but were afterwards lost and brought in again in the time of Henry VIII, by Richard Harris, the king's fruiterer; but this is certainly a mistake. When in the New Forest in Hampshire in the summer of 1808, I saw a great many cherry-trees, apparently, of much more considerable age than the time of Henry VIII. The ''very old'' trees were universally of the kind called ''merries''.&quot; H. E.

[[../Passus 6#vs4431|4431]]{{anchor|notevs4431}}. Cato, Distich. i, 21{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Infantem nudum quum te natura crearit,
Paupertatis onus patienter ferre memento.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 6#vs4453|4453]]{{anchor|notevs4453}}. ''so seide Saturne.'' See the Introduction, p. xii.

[[../Passus 7#vs4490|4490]]{{anchor|notevs4490}}. Whitaker's text reads after this line{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Leel and ful of love,
And no lord dreden,
Merciable to meek,
And mylde to the goode,
And bytynge on badde men
Bote yf thei wolde amende,
And dredeth nat for no deth
To distruye by here powere
Lecherie among lordes,
And hure luther custymes,
And sithen lyve as thei lereth men,
Oure lorde Treuthe hem graunteth,
To be peeres to Apostles, &amp;c.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4525|4525]]{{anchor|notevs4525}}. ''sette scolers to scole.'' It was common in the ''scholastic'' ages for scholars to wander about gathering money to support them at the universities. In a poem in MS. Lansdowne, No. 762, the husbandman, complaining of the many burdens he supports in taxes to the court, payments to the church, and charitable contributions of different kinds, enumerates among the latter the alms to scholars{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Than cometh clerkys of Oxford, and mak their mone,
To her scole-hire they most have money.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4547|4547]]{{anchor|notevs4547}}. Psa. xiv, 5 . Qui pecuniam suam non dedit ad usuram, et munera super innocentem non accepit.

[[../Passus 7#vs4571|4571]]{{anchor|notevs4571}}. Psa. xiv, 1 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4593|4593]]{{anchor|notevs4593}}. Matt. vii, 12 . Luke vi, 31 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4618|4618]]{{anchor|notevs4618}}. ''the clerc of stories.'' Called, elsewhere, ''maister of stories''. These names were given popularly to Peter Comestor, author of the famous Historia Scolastica, a paraphrase of the Bible history, with abundance of legendary matter added to it. The title given him by the author of Piers Ploughman is not uncommon in English treatises of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. Lydgate, Minor Poems, p. 102 (Ed. Halliwell), speaks of Comestor thus{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
''Maister of storyes'', this doctour ful notable,
Holding a chalice here in a sonne cliere.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4619|4619]]{{anchor|notevs4619}}. ''Catons techyng.'' &quot;Cui des videto,&quot; is the twenty-third of the &quot;Distichorum Lemmata&quot; of Dionysius Cato.

[[../Passus 7#vs4621|4621]]{{anchor|notevs4621}}. Instead of ll. 4621-4658, the following long and curious passage is substituted in the text adopted by Mr. Whitaker{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Wot no man, as ich wene,
Who is worthy to have.
The most needy aren oure neighebores,
And we nyme good hede;
As prisoners in puttes,
And poore folke in cotes
Charged with children
And chef lordes rente,
That thei spynnynge may spare,
Spynen hit in hous hyre,
Bothe in mylk and in mele.
To maken with papelotes
To aglotye with here gurles
That greden after fode.
Al so hemselve
Suffren muche hunger,
And wo in winter tyme;
With wakyng a-nyghtes
To ryse to the ruel,
To rocke the cradel,
Bothe to karde and to kembe,
To clouten and to wasche,
To rubbe and to rely,
Russhes to pilie,
That reuthe is to rede
Othere in ryme shewe
The wo that theese women
That wonyeth in cotes,
And of meny other men
That muche wo suffren,
Bothe a-fyngrede and a-furst,
To turne the fayre outwarde;
And beth abasshed for to begge,
And wolle nat be y-knowe
What hem needeth att here neihebores
At non and at even.
This Wit wot witerly,
As the world techeth,
What other byhoveth
That hath meny children.
And hath no catel bote hus crafte
To clothy hem and to fede,
And fele to fonge therto,
And fewe pans taketh.
Ther is payn and peny ale,
As for a pytaunce y-take;
Cold flesch and cold fyssh,
For veneson y-bake.
Frydays and fastyng-dayes
Ferthyng worth of muscles
Were a feste for suche a folke,
Other so fele cockes.
Theese were almes to helpe
That han suche charges,
And to comforte suche cotyers,
And crokede men and blynde.
Ac beggers with bagges, the wiche
Brewhouses ben here churches,
Bote thei be blynde other broke,
Other elles syke,
Thauh he falle for defaute,
That faiteth for hus lyflode,
Reicheth nevere, ye ryche,
Thauh suche lorelles sterven;
For all that han here hele
And here eyen syghte,
And lymes to laborye with,
And lolleres lyf usen,
Lyven ayens Godes lawe,
And love of holy churche.
And yut arn ther other beggers,
In hele, as it semeth;
Ac hem wanteth here witt,
Men and women bothe,
The wiche aren lunatik lollers
And leperes aboute,
And mad, as the mone sitt,
More other lasse:
Thei caren for no cold,
Ne counteth of no hete,
And are mevenge after the mone,
Moneyles thei walke,
With a good wil wit-lees,
Meny wyde contreys,
Ryght as Peter dude and Paul,
Save that thei preche nat,
Ne myracles maken;
Ac meny tymes hem happeth
To prophetien of the puple,
Pleyninge, as hit were,
And to oure sight, as hit semeth,
Suththe God hath the myghte
To yeven eche a whit wit,
Welthe, and his hele,
And suffreth suche so gon,
Hit semeth to myn inwitt,
Hit arn as hus aposteles suche puple,
Other as his prevye disciples;
For he sente hem forth selverles,
In a somer garnement,
Withoute bred and bagge,
As the Bok telleth.
''Quando misi vos sine pane et pera.''
Bar fot and bred-les,
Beggeth thei of no man;
And thauh he mete with the meyere
In mydest the strete,
He reverenceth hym ryght nouht
No rather than another.
''Neminem salutaveris per viam'',
Suche manere of men,
Matheu ous techeth,
We sholde have hem to house,
And help hem when thei come.
''Et egenos vagosque induc in domum tuam.''
For hit aren murye mouthede men,
Mynstrales of hevene
And Godes boyes bordiours,
As the Bok telleth.
''Si quis videtur sapiens, fiet stultus ut sit sapiens.''
And alle manere mynstrales,
Men wot wel the sothe,
To underfonge hem faire
Byfalle for the ryche;
For the lordes love and ladies
That thei with lengen,
Men suffren al that suche seyn,
And in solas taken;
And yut more to suche men
Doth, er thei passe,
Gyven hem gyftes and gold,
For grete lordes sake.
Ryght so, ye riche,
Rather ye sholde, for sothe,
Wolcomen and worsshepen
And with youre goode helpen
Godes mynstrales, and hus messagers,
And hus murye burdiers,
The wiche are lunatik lollares
And leperes aboute.
For under Godes secré seel
Here synnes ben y-keverede.
For thei bereth no bagges,
Ne non botels under clokes,
The wiche is lollaren lyf
And lewede eremytes,
That loken ful louheliche
To lacchen mennes almesse,
In hope to suten at even
By the hote coles,
Unlouke hus legges abrod,
Other lygge at hus ese,
Reste hym and roste hym,
And his ryg turne,
Drynke drue and deepe,
And drawe hym thanne to bedde,
And when hym lyketh and lust
Hus leve ys is to aryse;
When he rysen, rometh out,
And ryght wel aspieth
War he may rathest have a repast,
Other a rounde of bacon,
Sulver other fode-mete
And some tyme bothe,
A loof other alf a loof,
Other a lompe of chese,
And carieth it hom to hus cote,
And cast hym to lyve
In ydelnesse and in ese,
And by others travayle.
And wat frek of thys tolde
Fisketh thus aboute
With a bagge at hus bak,
Abegeneldes wyse,
And can som manere craft,
In cas he wolde hit use.
Thorgh wiche craft he couthe come
To bred and to ale,
And ovar more to an hater
To helye with hus bones,
And lyveth like a lollere,
Godes lawe him dampneth.
Lolleres lyvinge in sleuthe,
And overe lond stryken,
Beeth nat in thys bulle, quath Peers,
Til thei ben amended.
Nother beggars that beggen,
Bote yf thei have neede.
The Bok blameth alle beggerye,
And banneth in this manere: etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4645|4645]]{{anchor|notevs4645}}. Luke xix, 23 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4659|4659]]{{anchor|notevs4659}}. Ps. xxxvi, 25 . Junior fui, etenim senui: et non vidi justum derelictum, nec semen ejus quærens panem.

[[../Passus 7#vs4695|4695]]{{anchor|notevs4695}}. Here again, after many verbal variations from our text, Whitaker's text adds the following long passage, which is very curious, and well worthy to be preserved. Whitaker calls it &quot;one of the finest passages in the whole poem.&quot;

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ac eremites that enhabiten hem
By the heye weyes,
And in borwes among brewesters,
And beggen in churches
Al that holy eremytes
Hateden and despisede,
As rychesses and reverences
And ryche mennes almesse.
These lolleres, latche-draweres,
Lewede eremytes,
Coveyten the contrarie,
As cotyers thei lybben,
For hit beth bote boyes,
Lolleres atten ale,
Of linguage of lettrure
Ne lyf-holy as eremytes
That wonnede wyle in wodes
With beres and lyones.
Some had lyflode of here lynage,
And of no lyf elles;
And some lyvede by here lettrure
And labour of here hondes;
Some had foreynes to frendes,
That hem fode sente;
And bryddes brouhten to some bred,
Werby thei lyveden.
Alle thuse holy eremytes
Were of hye kynne,
Forsoke londe and lordshep
And lykynges of the body;
Ac thuse eremytes, that edefyen
Thus by the hye weyes,
Wylen were workmen,
Webbes and taillours,
And carters knaves
And clerkus without grace,
Heelden hungry hous,
And had much defaute,
Long labour and lyte wynnynge,
And atte laste aspiden
That faitours in frere clothynge
Had fatte chekus;
For-thi lefte thei here laboure,
Theese lewede knaves,
And clothed hem in copes,
Clerkus as hit were.
Other on of som ordre,
Othere elles prophite,
Ayens the lawe he lyveth,
Yf Latyn be trywe:
''Non licet nobis legem voluntate, sed voluntatem conjungere legi.''
Now kyndeliche, by Crist!
Beth suche callyd lolleres,
As by Englisch of oure eldres,
Of olde menne techynge,
He that lolleth his lame,
Other his leg out of the joynte,
Other meymed in som membre,
For to meschief hit souneth;
And ryght so sothlyche
Suche manere eremytes
Lollen ayen the bylyeve
And lawe of holy churche.
For holy churche hoteth
Alle manere puple
Under obedience to bee,
And buxum to the lawe,
Furst religious of religion
Here ruele to holde,
And under obedience to be
By dayes and by nyghtes,
Lewede men to laborie,
Lordes to honte
In frythes and in forestes
For fox and other bestes
That in wilde wodes ben,
And in wast places,
As wolves that wyrhyeth men,
Wommen, and children,
And upon Sonedayes to cesse,
Godes service to huyre,
Bothe matyns and messe,
And after mete in churches
To huyre here eve song
Every man ouhte.
Thus it bylongeth for lorde,
For lered and lewede,
Eche halyday to huyre
Hollyche the service,
Vigiles and fastyng dayes
Forthere to knowe,
And fulfille the fastynges
Bote infirmité hit made,
Poverte othere penaunces,
As pilgrymages and travayles.
Under this obedience
Arn we echone.
Who so brekyeth this, be wel war,
Bot yf he repente,
Amenden hym and mercy aske,
And meekliche hym shryve,
Ich drede me, and he deye,
Hit worth for dedlich synne
Acounted byfore Crist,
Bote Conscience excuse hym.
Loke now were theese lolleres
And lewede eremytes,
Yf thei breke thys obedience
That ben so fro churche,
Wher see we hem on Sonedays
The servise to huyre?
As matyns by the morwe
Tyl masse bygynne,
Other Sonedays at eve songe,
See we wol fewe;
Othere labory for our lyflode
As the lawe wolde
Ac at mydday meel tyme
Ich mete with hem ofte,
Conynge in a cope
As he a clerke were,
A bachelor other a beaupere
Best hym bysemeth,
And for the cloth that kevereth hem
Cald his here a frere,
Whassheth and wypeth,
And with the furste suteth.
Ac while he wrought in thys worlde,
And wan hus mete with Treuthe,
He sat atte syd benche
And secounde table,
Com no wyn in hus wombe
Thorw the weke longe,
Nother blankett in hus bed,
Ne white bred byfore hym.
The cause of al thys caitifté
Cometh of meny bisshepes,
That suffren suche sottes
And othere synnes regne.
Certes ho so thurste hit segge,
''Symon quasi dormit.''
''Vigilate'' were fairour,
For thow hast gret charge:
For meny waker wolves
Ben broke into foldes.
Thyne berkeres ben al blynde,
That bryngeth forth thy lambren;
''Disperguntur oves'', thi dogge
Dar nat beerke.
The tarre is untydy
That to thyne sheep bylongeth;
Hure salve ys of ''supersedeas''
In someneres boxes,
Thyne sheep are ner al shabbyd,
The wolf sheteth woolle.
''Sub molli pastore lupus lanam cacat, et grex incustoditus dilaceratur eo.''
Hoow hurde wher is thyn hounde,
And thyn hardy herte,
For to wyne the wolf
That thy woolle fouleth.
Ich leyve for thy lacchesse
Thow leest meny wederes,
And ful meny fayre flus
Falsliche wasshe.
When thy lord loketh to have
Alowance for hus bestes,
And of the monye thow haddist thermyd,
Hus meable to save,
And the woolle worth weye,
Woo ys the thenne!
''Redde rationem villicationis tuæ'',
Other arerage, ffalle.
Then hyre hurde, as ich hope,
Hath nouht to quyty thy dette,
Ther as mede ne mercy
May nat a myte avayle,
Bote have this for that,
Tho that thow toke
Mercy for mede,
And my lawe breke;
Loke now for thi lacchesse
Whether lawe wol the graunt
Purgatorie for thy paye,
Other perpetuel helle.
For shal no pardone praye for yowe ther,
Nother princes letteres.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4708|4708]]{{anchor|notevs4708}}. Matth. xxv, 46 . Et ibunt hi in supplicium æternum; justi autem in vitam æternam.

[[../Passus 7#vs4721|4721]]{{anchor|notevs4721}}. Psal. xxii, 4 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4739|4739]]{{anchor|notevs4739}}. Psal. xli, 4 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4745|4745]]{{anchor|notevs4745}}. Luke xii, 22 . Conf. Matth. vi, 25 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4764|4764]]{{anchor|notevs4764}}. &quot;Dixit insipiens in corde suo, non est Deus,&quot; is the commencement of Psalms xiii.  and lii. 

[[../Passus 7#vs4769|4769]]{{anchor|notevs4769}}. Prov. xxii, 10 . Ejice derisorem, et exibit cum eo jurgium, cessabuntque causæ et contumeliæ.

[[../Passus 7#vs4771|4771]]{{anchor|notevs4771}}. ''Perkyn'', the diminutive of Peter, or Piers. Formerly the diminutives of people's names were constantly used as marks of familiarity or endearment, as Hawkyn or Halkyn for Henry, Tymkyn for Tim or Timothy, Dawkyn for David, Tomkyn for Thomas, &amp;c.

[[../Passus 7#vs4796|4796]]{{anchor|notevs4796}}. Cato, Distich. ii, 31.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Somnia ne cures, nam mens humana quod optans,
Dum vigilat, sperat, per somnum cernit id ipsum.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4847|4847]]{{anchor|notevs4847}}. Matth. xvi, 19 .

[[../Passus 8#vs4941|4941]]{{anchor|notevs4941}}. Prov. xxiv, 16 . Septies enim cadet justus, ''et resurget''; impii autem corruent in malum.

[[../Passus 8#vs4963|4963]]{{anchor|notevs4963}}. ''To falle and to stonde.'' I by no means agree with Price's interpretation of this phrase, or in his preference of the reading ''to falle if he stonde''. (Note on Warton ii, 67.) The motion of the boat causes the firm man alternately to fall and stand; be he ever so stable, he stumbles now and then, but his strength is shown in his being able to recover himself. Such are the moral slips which even the just man cannot avoid. But if the man in the boat be too weak to arise again and place himself at the helm, his boat and himself will be lost for want of strength and guidance. So it is with the wicked man. The completion of the phrase quoted from Proverbs, as given in the preceding note, shows the justice of this explanation.

[[../Passus 8#vs5014|5014]]{{anchor|notevs5014}}. ''if I may lyve and loke.'' Price (in Warton) first pointed out the identity between this expression and the one so common in Homer: it is &quot;one of those primitive figures which are common to the poetry of every country.&quot;

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
{{Polytonic|{{Tooltip|texttip=Outis, emeu zôntos kai epi chthoni derkomenoio,|target=Οὔτις, ἐμεῦ ζῶντος καὶ ἐπὶ χθονὶ δερκομένοιο,}}}}
{{Polytonic|{{Tooltip|texttip=Soi koilêis para nêusi bareias cheiras epoisei.|target=Σὸι κοίλῃς παρὰ νηυσί βαρείας χεῖρας ἐποίσει.}}}}
{{gap|14.35em}}Il. i, 88.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Whitaker's interpretation is nonsense, &quot;If I have space to live and look in the book.&quot; Other instances of this phrase occur in ll. [[../Passus 20#vs12132|12132]], [[../Passus 20#vs13268|13268]], and [[../Passus 20#vs13303|13303]] of Piers Ploughman.

[[../Passus 8#vs5082|5082]]{{anchor|notevs5082}}. 2 Corinth. xi, 19 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5157|5157]]{{anchor|notevs5157}}. ''of four kynnes thynges.'' The medieval notion of the manner in which the elements were mixed together in the formation of the human body, here alluded to, appears to partake more of Western legend than of Eastern tradition. In the English verses on Popular Science (given in my &quot;Popular Treatises of Science written during the Middle Ages,&quot; p. 138), we have the following curious account of the four things forming the body, and the influence of each{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Man hath of urthe al his bodi, of water he haveth wete,
Of eyr he haveth wynd, of fur he haveth hete.
Ech quic thing of alle this foure, of some hath more other lasse;
Ho so haveth of urthe most, he is slou as an asse;
Of vad colour, of hard hide, boustes forme, and ded strong,
Of moche thoght, of lute speche, of stille grounynge, and wraththe long,
A slough wrecche and ferblet, fast and loth to geve his god,
Sone old, and noght wilful, stable and stedefast of mode.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


And so on with the other elements. This doctrine of the composition of man from the four elements became a very popular one in the sixteenth century, when the poets frequently allude to it, as may be seen in the examples given by Nares (''v.'' {{sc|Elements}}). In the ''Mirror for Magistrates'' (''King Forrex'', page 76), it is said{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
If we behold the substance of a man,
{{gap|0.7em}}How he is made of ''elements'' by kind,
Of earth, of water, aire, and fire, than
{{gap|0.7em}}We would full often call unto our mind,
{{gap|0.7em}}That all our earthly joys we leave behind.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Massinger (''Renegado'' iii, 2) says{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
{{gap|7em}}——I've heard
Schoolmen affirm, man's body is compos'd
Of ''the four elements''.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


In Shakespeare (''Twel. N.'' ii, 3), Sir Toby Belch inquires, &quot;Does not our life consist of ''the four elements''?&quot; and Brutus is commended for possessing these elements properly blended, in which the perfection of a man's nature was supposed to consist{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
His life was gentle; and the ''elements''
So mix'd in him, that Nature might stand up
And say to all the world, This ''was a man''.
{{gap|7.7em}}''Jul. Cæs.'' v, 5.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


On the other hand, the ill mixing of these elements was supposed to be accompanied with a corresponding derangement of the intellectual faculties. Thus, in one of the plays of Beaumont and Fletcher, a madman is addressed{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
I prithee, thou ''four elements'' ill brew'd
Torment none but thyself: Away, I say,
Thou beast of passion.
{{gap|7.7em}}''B. and Fl. Nice Valour'', act i, p. 312.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The more mythic form of this legend gives ''eight things'' to the formation of the body, instead of four. Our earliest notice of this legend in England occurs in the prose Anglo-Saxon Dialogue between Saturn and Solomon (Thorpe's Analecta, p. 95):—&quot;Saga me þæt andworc þe Adám wæs of-ge-worht se ærusta man? Ic þe secge of viii punda ge-wihte. Saga me hwæt hatton þage? Ic þe secge þæt æroste wæs fóldan pund, of ðam him wæs flesc ge-worht; oðer wæs fyres pund, þanon him wæs þæt blód reád and hát; þridde wæs windes pund, þanon him wæs seo æðung ge-seald; feorðe wæs wolcnes pund, þanon him wæs his módes unstaðelfæstnes ge-seald; fifte wæs gyfe pund, þanon him wæs ge-seald se fat and geðang; syxste wæs blostnena pund, þanon him wæs eagena myssenlicnys ge-seald; seofoðe wæs deawes pund, þanon him becom swat; eahtothe wæs sealtes pund, þanon him wæron þa tearas sealte.&quot;—''Tell me the matter of which Adam the first man was made? I tell thee, of eight pound-weights. Tell me their names? I tell thee, the first was a pound of earth, of which his flesh was made; the second was a pound of fire, from which his blood was red and hot; the third was a pound of wind, of which breath was given him; the fourth was a pound of cloud, whereof was given him his instability of mood; the fifth was a pound of ..., whereof was given him fat and sinew; the sixth was a pound of flowers, whereof was given him diversity of eyes; the seventh was a pound of dew, whereof he had sweat; the eighth was a pound of salt, whereof he had salt tears.'' This legend was still prevalent in England as late as the fifteenth century, when we find it among the curious collection of questions (closely resembling those of Saturn and Solomon just quoted) entitled &quot;Questions bitwene the Maister of Oxinford and his Scoler&quot; (Reliquiæ Antiquæ, vol. i, p. 230),—&quot;''C.'' Whereof was Adam made? ''M.'' Of viij. thingis: the first of erthe, the second of fire, the iij{{sup|de}} of wynde, the iiij{{sup|th}} of clowdys, the v{{sup|th}} of aire wherethorough he speketh and thinketh, the vj{{sup|th}} of dewe wherby he sweteth, the vij{{sup|th}} of flowres, wherof Adam hath his ien, the viij{{sup|th}} is salte wherof Adam hath salt teres.&quot; A similar account is given in an extract from an old Friesic manuscript communicated to the Zeitschrift für Deutsches Alterthum, by Dr. James Grimm,—&quot;God scôp thene êresta meneska, thet was Adam, fon achta wendem; that bênete fon tha stêne, thet flâsk fon there erthe, thet blôd fon tha wetere, tha herta fon tha winde, thene togta (l. thochta) fon tha wolken, the(ne) suêt fon tha dawe, tha lokkar fon tha gerse, tha âgene fon there sunna, and tha blêrem on thene helga ôm.&quot;—''God created the first man, who was Adam, of eight elements: the bone from the stone, the flesh from the earth, the blood from the water, the heart from the wind, the thought from the cloud, the sweat from the dew, the hair from the grass, the eyes from the sun.''

[[../Passus 9#vs5169|5169]]{{anchor|notevs5169}}. ''a proud prikere of Fraunce.'' A proud rider of France. Until the fifteenth century there appears to have been a strong prejudice among the lower orders against horsemen: their name was connected with oppressors and foreigners. Horses appear to have been comparatively little used for riding among the Anglo-Saxons until they were introduced by the Norman favourites of Edward the Confessor, in whose reign we read that the Anglo-Saxon soldiers in Herefordshire were defeated by the Welsh owing to their awkwardness on horseback, having been unadvisedly mounted by their Norman commander. The Anglo-Norman barons of the three following centuries, with their numerous household of knights and attendants who plundered and oppressed the peasantry and middle classes of society, kept alive the prejudice alluded to, and we trace it in several popular songs. In a song of the reign of Edward I (Political Songs, p. 240), we find the following lines{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Whil God wes on erthe
{{gap|0.7em}}And wondrede wyde,
Whet wes the resoun
{{gap|0.7em}}Why he nolde ryde?
For he nolde no grom
{{gap|0.7em}}To go by ys syde,
Ne grucchyng of no gedelyng
{{gap|0.7em}}To chaule ne to chyde.
Spedeth ou to spewen,
{{gap|0.7em}}Ase me doth to spelle;
The fend ou afretie
{{gap|0.7em}}With fleis ant with felle!
Herkneth hideward, horsmen,
{{gap|0.7em}}A tidyng ich ou telle,
That ye shulen hongen,
{{gap|0.7em}}Ant herbarewen in helle!
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 9#vs5276|5276]]{{anchor|notevs5276}}. Epist. ad. Philippens. iii, 19 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5283|5283]]{{anchor|notevs5283}}. Epist. Joan. iv, 16 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5289|5289]]{{anchor|notevs5289}}. Matth. xxv, 12 ; Psal. lxxx, 13 . Et dimisi eos secundum desideria cordis eorum, ibunt in adventionibus suis.

[[../Passus 9#vs5305|5305]]{{anchor|notevs5305}}. ''the four doctours.'' The four doctors ''par excellence'' of the western church were, I believe, Gregory, Ambrose, Augustine, and Jerome.

[[../Passus 9#vs5354|5354]]{{anchor|notevs5354}}. Ecclesiast. i, 16 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5363|5363]]{{anchor|notevs5363}}. Epist. Jacob. ii, 10 . Quicunque autem totam legem servaverit, offendat autem in uno, factus est omnium reus.

[[../Passus 9#vs5412|5412]]{{anchor|notevs5412}}. ''as Caym was on Eve.'' See further on l. [[../Passus 9#vs5549|5549]]. According to a very curious legend, which was popular in the middle ages, Cain was born during the period of penitence and fasting to which our first parents were condemned for their breach of obedience.

[[../Passus 9#vs5415|5415]]{{anchor|notevs5415}}. Psa. vii, 15 . Concepit dolorem et peperit iniquitatem.

[[../Passus 9#vs5417|5417]]{{anchor|notevs5417}}. Whitaker's text inserts before this line—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Caym, the cursed creature,
Conceyved was in synne;
After that Adam and Eve
Hadden y-synged,
Withoute repentaunce
Of here rechelessnesse,
A rybaud thei engendrede,
And a gome unryghtful;
As an hywe that ereth nat
Auntreth hym to sowe
On a leye lond,
Ayens hus lordes wille,
So was Caym conceyved,
And so ben cursed wrettches
That lycame han ayen the lawe
That oure Lord ordeynede.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 9#vs5433|5433]]{{anchor|notevs5433}}. Gen. vi, 7 . pænitet enim me fecisse eos.

[[../Passus 9#vs5464|5464]]{{anchor|notevs5464}}. Ezech. xviii, 20 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5470|5470]]{{anchor|notevs5470}}. Whitaker's text adds here{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Westminster lawe, ich wot,
Worcheth the contrarie;
For thauh the fader be a frankelayne,
And for a felon be hanged,
The heritage that the air sholde have
Ys at the kynges wille.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 9#vs5479|5479]]{{anchor|notevs5479}}. Matt. vii, 16 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5497|5497]]{{anchor|notevs5497}}. John xiv, 6 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5507|5507]]{{anchor|notevs5507}}. ''many a peire, sithen the pestilence.'' The continuator of William de Nangis, who gives a detailed account of the effects of the great pestilence on the Continent, mentions the hasty marriages which followed it, but he gives quite a different account of their fruitfulness. &quot;Cessante autem dicta epidimia, pestilentia, et mortalitate, nupserunt viri qui remanserunt et mulieres ad invicem, conceperunt uxores residuæ per mundum ultra modum, nulla sterilis efficiebatur, sed prægnantes hinc inde videbantur, et plures geminos pariebant, et aliquæ tres infantes insimul vivos emittebant.&quot; The writer goes on to observe, &quot;Sed proh dolor! ex hujus renovatione sæculi non est mundus propter hoc in melius commutatus. Nam homines fuerunt postea magis avari et tenaces, cum multo plura bona quam antea possiderent; magis etiam cupidi et per lites, brigas, et rixas, atque per placita, seipsos conturbantes.... Charitas etiam ab illo tempore refrigescere cæpit valde, et iniquitas abundavit cum ignorantiis et peccatis; nam pauci inveniebantur qui scirent aut vellent in domibus, villis, et castris informare pueros in grammaticalibus rudimentis.&quot;—''Contin. G. de Nangis, in Dacherii Spicileg.'' iii, 110 (''ed.'' 1723).

[[../Passus 9#vs5515|5515]]{{anchor|notevs5515}}. ''do hem to Dunmowe.'' This is, I believe, the earliest allusion at present known to the custom of the flitch of bacon at Dunmow, which was evidently, at that time, a matter of general celebrity. In Chaucer, about half a century later, the Wife of Bath says of her two old husbands, and of the way in which she tyrannized over them,—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
The bacoun was nought fet for hem, I trowe,
That som men fecche in Essex at Donmowe.—[[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Wife of Bath#217|''Cant. T.'' 5799.]]
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


In a curious religious poem preserved in a manuscript in the Bodleian Library at Oxford, written about the year 1460, from which some extracts are printed in the &quot;Reliquiæ Antiquæ,&quot; ii, 27-29, we have the following satirical allusion to this custom{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
I can fynde no man now that wille enquere
The parfyte wais unto Dunmow;
For they repent hem within a yere,
And many within a weke, and sonner, men trow;
That cawsith the weis to be rowgh and over-grow,
That no man may fynd path or gap,
The world is turnyd to another shap.

Befe and moton wylle serve wele enow;
And for to seche so ferre a lytill bakon flyk,
Which hath long hanggid resty and tow
And the wey, I telle you, is comborous and thyk,
And thou might stomble, and take the cryk;
Therfor bide at home, what so ever hap
Tylle the world be turnyd into another shap.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


One or two other allusions to this custom have been found in manuscripts of the fifteenth century, and in the sixteenth century these allusions become more numerous.

[[../Passus 9#vs5563|5563]]{{anchor|notevs5563}}. 1 Corinth. vii, 1 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5613|5613]]{{anchor|notevs5613}}. ''Margery perles.'' A margarite pearl, ''perle marguerite''. The Latin name for a pearl (''margarita'') seems to be the origin of this expression.

[[../Passus 10#vs5634|5634]]{{anchor|notevs5634}}. ''a love day | to lette with truthe.'' Love days (''Dies amoris'') were days fixed for settling differences by umpire, without having recourse to law or to violence. The ecclesiastics seem generally to have had the principal share in the management of these transactions, which throughout the Visions of Piers Ploughman appear to be censured as the means of hindering justice and of enriching the clergy. A little further on, Religion is blamed for being &quot;a ledere of love-dayes.&quot; (l. [[../Passus 10#vs6219|6219]].) In Chaucer, it is said of the friar{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And over'al, ther eny profyt schulde arise,
Curteys he was, and lowe of servyse.
&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;
And rage he couthe and pleye as a whelpe,
In love-dayes, ther couthe he mochil helpe.
For ther was he not like a cloysterer
With a thredbare cope, as a pore scoler,
But he was like a maister or a pope.—[[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Prologue#249|''Cant. T.'' 249, 259.]]
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 10#vs5646|5646]]{{anchor|notevs5646}}. The quotation is made up from Job xxi, 7 ; and Jerem. xii, 2 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5651|5651]]{{anchor|notevs5651}}. Psal. lxxii, 12 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5659|5659]]{{anchor|notevs5659}}. Psal. x, 4 . Quoniam quæ perfecisti, destruxerunt: justus autem quid fecit?

[[../Passus 10#vs5739|5739]]{{anchor|notevs5739}}. Psal. cxxxi, 6 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5769|5769]]{{anchor|notevs5769}}. Isai. lviii, 7 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5778|5778]]{{anchor|notevs5778}}. Tob. iv, 9 . Si multum tibi fuerit, abundanter tribue; si exiguum tibi fuerit, etiam exiguum libenter impertiri stude.

In what follows, Whitaker's text is in parts much more brief than the one now printed; there are also many transpositions, and other variations, which are not of sufficient importance to be pointed out more particularly.

[[../Passus 10#vs5801|5801]]{{anchor|notevs5801}}. ''in a pryvee parlour.'' [[../Passus 10#vs5803|5803]]{{anchor|notevs5803}}. ''in a chambre with a chymenee.'' This is a curious illustration of contemporary manners. The hall was the apartment in which originally the lord of the household and the male portion of the family passed nearly all their time when at home, and where they lived in a manner in public. The chambers were only used for sleeping, and as places of retirement for the ladies, and had, at first, no fire-places (''chymenees''), which were added, in course of time, for their comfort. The parlour was an apartment introduced also at a comparatively late period, and was, as its name indicates, a place for private conferences or conversation. As society advanced in refinement, people sought to live less and less in public, and the heads of the household gradually deserted the hall, except on special occasions, and lived more in the parlour and in the &quot;chambre with a chymenee.&quot; With the absence of the lord from the hall, its festive character and indiscriminate hospitality began to diminish; and the popular agitators declaimed against this as an unmistakeable sign of the debasement of the times.

[[../Passus 10#vs5829|5829]]{{anchor|notevs5829}}. Ezech. xviii, 19 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5835|5835]]{{anchor|notevs5835}}. Galat. vi, 5 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5844|5844]]{{anchor|notevs5844}}. Pauli Epist. ad Rom. xii, 3 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5911|5911]]{{anchor|notevs5911}}. ''seven artz.'' In the scholastic system of the middle ages, the whole course of learning was divided into seven arts, which were, grammar, dialectics, rhetoric, music, arithmetic, geometry, astronomy. They were included in the following memorial distich{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Gram. loquitur, Dia. vera docet, Rhet. verba colorat,
Mus. canit, Ar. numerat, Geo. ponderat, As. colit astra.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 10#vs5963|5963]]{{anchor|notevs5963}}. ''a baleys.'' See before, the [[#notevs2819|note]] on l. 2819.

[[../Passus 10#vs5990|5990]]{{anchor|notevs5990}}. ''Caton.'' Distich. lib. i, 26.

[[../Passus 10#vs6009|6009]]{{anchor|notevs6009}}. Galat. vi, 10 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6022|6022]]{{anchor|notevs6022}}. Epist. ad Rom. xii, 19 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6037|6037]]{{anchor|notevs6037}}. The second Trin. Coll. MS. reads here—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Experimentis of Alkenemye
Of Albertis makyng,
Nigromancie and permansie
The pouke to reisen,
Gif thou thenke, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 10#vs6146|6146]]{{anchor|notevs6146}}. Matth. vii, 3 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6179|6179]]{{anchor|notevs6179}}. Matth. xv, 14 ; Luke vi, 39 ; Mark (?)

[[../Passus 10#vs6186|6186]]. ''mausede.'' An error of the press for ''mansede''. See the Glossary.

[[../Passus 10#vs6191|6191]]{{anchor|notevs6191}}. ''Offyn and Fynes''. Ophni and Phinees. See 1 Samuel iv. (in the Vulgate called 1 Kings).

[[../Passus 10#vs6199|6199]]{{anchor|notevs6199}}. Psal. xlix, 21 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6207|6207]]{{anchor|notevs6207}}. Isai. lvi, 10 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6217|6217]]{{anchor|notevs6217}}. The text of the Trin. Coll. MS. 2, differs very much from ours in this part of the poem. Instead of 6217-6277, we have the following lines{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ac now is Religioun a ridere
And a rennere aboute,
A ledere of ladies,
And a lond biggere;
Poperith on a palfrey
To toune and to toune;
A bidowe or a biselard
He berith be his side;
Godis flessh and his fet
And hise fyve woundis
Arn more in his mynde
Than the memorie of his foundours.
This is the lif of this lordis
That lyven shulde with Do-bet,
And wel awey wers,
And I shulde al telle.
I wende that kinghed and knighthed,
And caiseris with erlis,
Wern Do-wel and Do-bet
And Do-best-of-hem-alle.
For I have seighe it myself,
And siththen red it aftir,
How Crist counseilleth the comune,
And kenneth hem this tale,
''Super cathedram Moisi sederunt principes''
For-thi I wende that the wyes
Wern Do-best-of-alle.
I nile not scorne, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 10#vs6223|6223]]{{anchor|notevs6223}}. ''an heepe of houndes.'' &quot;Walter de Suffield, bishop of Norwich, bequeathed by will his pack of hounds to the king, in 1256. Blomefield's Norf. ii, 347. See Chaucer's Monke, [[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Prologue#165|Prol. v, 165]]. This was a common topic of satire. It occurs again fol. xxvii, a [l. [[../Passus 5#vs3321|3321]], of the present Edition]. See Chaucer's Testament of Love, [[Chaucerian and Other Pieces/Piece1#2_65|page 492, col. ii]], Urr. The Archdeacon of Richmond, on his visitation, comes to the priory of Bridlington in Yorkshire, in 1216, with ninety-seven horses, twenty dogs, and three hawks. Dugd. Mon. ii, 65.&quot; {{sc|Warton.}}

[[../Passus 10#vs6251|6251]]{{anchor|notevs6251}}. Psal. xix, 8 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6259|6259]]{{anchor|notevs6259}}. ''the abbot of Abyngdone.'' There was a very ancient and famous abbey at Abingdon in Berkshire. Geoffrey of Monmouth was abbot there. It was the house into which the monks, strictly so called, were first introduced in England, and is, therefore, very properly introduced as the representative of English monachism.

[[../Passus 10#vs6266|6266]]{{anchor|notevs6266}}. Isai. xiv, 4 , 5.

[[../Passus 10#vs6289|6289]]{{anchor|notevs6289}}. Ecclesiasticus x, 10 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6291|6291]]{{anchor|notevs6291}}. Catonis Distich. iv, 4.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Dilige denari, sed parce dilige, formam;
Quem nemo sanctus nec honestus captat ab ære.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 10#vs6327|6327]]{{anchor|notevs6327}}. Colos. iii, 1 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6353|6353]]{{anchor|notevs6353}}. ''mœchaberis.'' A mistake in the original MS. for ''necaberis'', as it is rightly printed in Crowley's edition.

[[../Passus 10#vs6372|6372]]{{anchor|notevs6372}}. John iii, 13 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6414|6414]]{{anchor|notevs6414}}. Matth. xxiii, 2 . Super cathedram Moysi sederunt Scribæ et Pharisæi.

[[../Passus 10#vs6440|6440]]{{anchor|notevs6440}}. Psal. xxxv, 8 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6476|6476]]{{anchor|notevs6476}}. Ecclesiastes ix, 1 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6504|6504]]{{anchor|notevs6504}}. Matth. x, 18 . The quotation is not quite literal.

[[../Passus 10#vs6528|6528]]. For ''idiotæ irapiunt'', read ''idiotæ vi rapiunt'': the error was caused accidentally in the printing, and has escaped in the present edition.

[[../Passus 10#vs6571|6571]]{{anchor|notevs6571}}. Matth. xx, 4 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6741|6741]]{{anchor|notevs6741}}. John iii, 3 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6755|6755]]{{anchor|notevs6755}}. Matth. vii, 1 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6764|6764]]{{anchor|notevs6764}}. Psal. l, 21 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6815|6815]]{{anchor|notevs6815}}. Isai. lv, 1 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6825|6825]]{{anchor|notevs6825}}. Mark xvi, 16 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6831|6831]]{{anchor|notevs6831}}. ''may no cherl chartre make.'' Such was the law of ''vileinage'', then in existence. There is a curious story illustrative of the condition of the ''cherl'' or peasant, in the Descriptio Norfolciensium, in my Early Mysteries and other Latin Poems of the Twelfth and Thirteenth Centuries, p. 94. The 'cherl,' vilein, or bondman, could not even be put apprentice without the licence of the lord of the soil. In the curious poem on the Constitution of Masonry (14th cent.) published by Mr. Halliwell, the master is particularly cautioned on this point{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
The fowrthe artycul thys moste be,
That the mayster hym wel be-se
That he no bondemon prentys make,
Ny for no covetyse do hym take;
For the lord that he ys bonde to,
May fache the prentes whersever he go.
{{gap|3.5em}}''Early History of Freemasonry in England'', p. 14.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 11#vs6859|6859]]{{anchor|notevs6859}}. ''Trojanus.'' [[../Passus 11#vs6869|6869]]{{anchor|notevs6869}}. ''Gregorie.'' The legend here alluded to is given briefly as follows, in the life of St. Gregory in the Golden Legend, fol. lxxxxvii,—

&quot;In the tyme that Trayan themperour regned, and on a tyme as he wente toward a batayll out of Rome, it happed that in hys waye as he shold ryde a woman a wydowe came to hym wepyng and sayd: I praye thee, syre, that thou avenge the deth of one my sone, whyche innocently and wythout cause hath ben slayn. Themperour answerd: yf I come agayn fro the batayll hool and sounde, thenne I shall do justyce for the deth of thy sone. Thenne sayd the wydowe: Syre, and yf thou deye in the bataylle, who shall thenne avenge hys deth for me? And the wydowe sayd, is it not better that thou do to me justice, and have the meryte thereof of God, than another have it for thee? Then had Trayan pyté, and descended fro his horse, and dyde justyce in avengynge the deth of her sone. On a tyme saynt Gregory went by the marked of Rome whyche is called the marked of Trayan. And thenne he remembred of the justyce and other good dedes of Trayan, and how he had ben pyteous and debonayr, and was moche sorowfull that he had ben a paynem; and he tourned to the chyrche of saynt Peter waylyng for thorrour of the mescreaunce of Trayan. Thenne answerd a voys fro God, sayng: I have now herd thy prayer, and have spared Trayan fro the payne perpetuelly. By thys thus, as somme saye, the payne perpetuell due to Trayan as a mescreaunt was somme dele take awaye, but for all that was he not quyte fro the pryson of helle; for the sowle may well be in helle, and fele ther no payne, by the mercy of God.&quot;

[[../Passus 11#vs6907|6907]]{{anchor|notevs6907}}. 1 John iii, 15 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6938|6938]]{{anchor|notevs6938}}. Luke xiv, 12 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6964|6964]]{{anchor|notevs6964}}. John viii, 34 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6981|6981]]{{anchor|notevs6981}}. Galat. vi, 2 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7015|7015]]{{anchor|notevs7015}}. Matth. vii, 3 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7063|7063]]{{anchor|notevs7063}}. Luke x, 40 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7072|7072]]{{anchor|notevs7072}}. Luke x, 42 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7113|7113]]{{anchor|notevs7113}}. Although our writer quotes the circumstance from Luke xviii, the words he gives are from Matth. xix, 21 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7113|7113]]. In Whitaker's text the following passage is here inserted{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thus consaileth Crist
In comun ous alle,
'Ho so coveyteth to come
To my kynriche,
He mot forsake hymself,
Hus suster, and hus brother,
And al that the worlde wolde,
And my wil folwen.'
''Nisi renunciaveritis omnia quæ possidetis, etc.''
Meny proverbis ich myghte have
Of meny holy seyntes,
To testifie for treuthe
The tale that ich shewe,
And poetes to preoven hit,
Porfirie and Plato,
Aristotle, Ovidius,
And ellevene hundred,
Tullius, Tholomeus,
Ich can nat telle here names,
Preoven pacient poverte
Pryns of alle vertues.
And by greyn that groweth,
God ous alle techeth.
''Nisi granum frumenti cadens in terra, et mortuum fuit, ipsum solum manet.''
Bot yf that sed that sowen is,
In the sloh sterve,
Shal nevere spir springen up,
Ne spik on strawe curne;
Sholde nevere wete wexe,
Bote wete fyrste deyde;
And other sedes also
In the same wyse,
That ben leide on louh eerthe,
Y-lore as hit were,
And thorw the grete grace of God,
Of greyn ded in erthe
Atte the laste launceth up
Werby lyven alle.
Ac sedes that ben sowen
And mowe suffre wyntres,
Aren tydyor and tower
To mannes by-hofte,
Than seedes that sowen beeth
And mowe nouht with forste,
With wyndes, ne with wederes,
As in wynter tyme,
As lynne-seed, and lik-seed,
And Lente-seedes alle,
Aren nouht so worthy as whete,
Ne so wel mowen
In the feld with the forst,
And hit freese longe.
Ryght so, for sothe,
That suffre may penaunces
Worth alowed of oure Lorde
At here laste ende,
And for here penaunce be preysed,
As for puyre martir,
Other for a confessour y-kud,
That counteth nat a ruysshe
Fere ne famyne,
Ne false menne tonges;
Bote as an hosebonde hopeth
After an hard wynter,
Yf God gyveth hym the lif
To have a good hervest,
So preoveth thees prophetes
That pacientliche suffreth
Myschiefs and myshappes,
And menye tribulacions,
Bytokneth ful triweliche
In tyme comynge after
Murthe for hus mornynge,
And that muche plenté.
For Crist seide to hus seyntes
That for hus sake tholeden
Poverte, penaunces,
Persecution of body,
Angeles in here angre
On this wise hem grate,
''Tristitia vestra vertetur in gaudium.''
Youre sorwe into solas
Shal turne atte laste,
And out of wo into wele
Youre wyrdes shul chaunge.
Ac so redeth of riche,
The revers he may fynde,
How God, as the Godspel telleth,
Geveth hem foul towname,
And that hus gost shal go,
And hus good byleve,
And asketh hym after
Ho shal hit have,
The catel that he kepeth so
In coffres and in hernes,
And ert so loth to lene
Thet leve shalt needes.
''O stulte, ista nocte anima tua egrediatur, thesauriza et ignorat.''
An unredy reve
Thi residue shal spene,
That menye moththe was ynne
In a mynte while;
Upholderes on the hul
Shullen have hit to selle.
Lo! lo! lordes, lo!
And ladies taketh hede,
Hit lasteth nat longe
That is lycour swete,
Ac pees-coddes and pere-ronettes,
Plomes and chiries,
That lyghtliche launceth up,
Litel wile dureth,
And that that rathest rypeth,
Roteth most sannest.
On fat londe and ful of donge
Foulest wedes groweth,
Right so, for sothe,
Suche that ben bysshopes,
Erles and archdekenes,
And other ryche clerkes.
That chaffaren as chapmen,
And chiden bote thei wynne,
And haven the worlde at here wil
Other wyse to lyve;
Right as weodes wexen
In wose and in dunge,
So of rychesse upon richesse
Arist al vices.
Lo! lond overe-layde
With marle and with donge,
Whete that wexeth theron
Worth lygge ar hit repe;
Right so, for sothe,
For to sigge treuthe,
Over plenté pryde norssheth
Ther poverte destrueth hit.
For how hit evere be y-wonne,
Bote hit be wel dispended,
Worliche wele is wuked thynge
To hym that hit kupeth.
For yf he be feer therfro,
Ful ofte hath he drede
That fals folke fetche away
Felonliche hus godes.
And yut more hit maketh men
Meny time and ofte
To synegen, and to souchen
Soteltees of gyle,
For covetyze of that catel
To culle hem that hit kepeth;
And so is meny men y-morthred
For hus money and goodes;
And the that duden the dede
Y-dampned therfore after,
And he, for hus harde heldynge,
In helle paraunter;
So covetise of catel
Was combraunce to hem alle.
Lo! how pans purchasede
Faire places, and drede,
That rote is robbers
The richesse withynne.

{{gap|1.4em}}[''Passus quartus de Dowel.'']

Ac wel worth Poverte,
For he may walke unrobbede,
Among pilours in pees,
Yf pacience hym folwe,
Oure prynce Jhesu poverte chees,
And hus aposteles alle,
And ay the lenger thei lyveden
The lasse good thei hadde.
''Tanquam nihil habentes, et omnia possidentes.''
Yut men that of Abraam
And Job were wonder ryche,
And out of numbre the men
Menye meobles hadden.
Abraam, for al hus good,
Hadde muche teene,
In gret poverte was y-put,
A pryns as hit were
Bynom hym ys housewif
And heeld here hymself,
And Abraam nat hardy
Ones to letten hym,
Ne for brightnesse of here beauté
Here spouse to be byknowe.
And for he suffrede and seide nouht,
Oure Lord sente tokne,
That the kynge cride
To Abraam mercy,
And deliverede hym hus wif,
With muche welthe after.
And also Job the gentel
What joye hadde he on erthe,
How bittere he hit bouhte!
As the book telleth.
And for he songe in hus sorwe,
''Si bona accipimus a Domino'',
Dereworthe dere God,
Do we so ''mala'';
Al hus sorwe to solas
Thorgh that songe turnede,
And Job bycam a jolif man,
And al hus joye newe.
Lo how patience in here poverte
Thees patriarkes relevede,
And brouhte hem al above
That in bale rotede,
As greyn that lyth in the greot
And thorgh grace atte laste
Spryngeth up and spredeth,
So spedde the fader Abraam,
And also the gentel Job,
Here joie hath non ende.
Ac leveth nouht, ye lewede men,
That ich lacke richesse,
Thauh ich preise poverte thus,
And preove hit by ensamples,
Worthiour as by holy writ,
And wise philosophers,
Bothe two but goode,
Be ye ful certayn,
And lyves that our Lorde loveth,
And large weyes to hevene.
Ac the povre pacient
Purgatorye passeth
Rathere than the ryche,
Thauh thei renne at ones.
For yf a marchaunt and a messager
Metten to-gederes,
For the parcels of hus paper
And other pryvey dettes,
Wol lette hym as ich leyve
The lengthe of a myle;
The messager doth namore
Bote hus mouth telleth,
Hus lettere and hus ernde sheweth,
And is anon delyvered;
And thauh thei wende by the wey
Tho two to-gederes.
Thauh the messager made hus wey
Amyde the whete,
Wole no wys man wroth be,
Ne hus wed take,
Ys non haiwarde y-hote
Hus wed for to take.
''Necessitas non habet legem.''
Ac yf the marchaunt make hus way
Overe menne cornne,
And the haywarde happe
With hym for to mete,
Other hus hatt, other hus hed,
Other elles hus gloves,
The merchaunt mot for-go,
Other moneys of huse porse,
And yut be lett, as ich leyve,
For the lawe asketh
Marchauns for here merchandise
In meny place to tullen.
Yut thauh thei wenden on wey
As to Wynchestre fayre,
The marchaunt with hus marchaundise
May nat go so swythe
As the messager may,
Ne with so mochel ese.
For that on bereth bote a boxe,
A brevet therynne,
Ther the marchaunt ledeth a male
With meny kynne thynges;
And dredeth to be ded therefore,
And he in derke mete
With robbours and with revers
That riche men despoilen,
Ther the messager is ay murye,
Hus mouthe ful of songes,
And leyveth for hus letters
That no wight wol hym greve.
Ac yut myghte the marchaunt
Thorgh monye and other yeftes
Have hors and hardy men,
Thauh he mette theoves,
Wolde non suche asailen hym
For hem that hym folweth,
As safliche passe as the messager,
And as sone at hus hostel.
Ye, wyten wel, ye wyse men,
What this is to mene.
The marchaunt is no more to mene
Bote men that ben ryche
Aren acountable to Crist
And to the kyng of hevene,
That holden mote the heye weye,
Evene ten hestes,
Bothe lovye and lene,
The leele and the unleele,
And have reuthe, and releve
With hus grete richesse
By hus power alle manere men
In meschief y-falle,
Fynde beggars bred,
Backes for the colde,
Tythen here goodes tryweliche,
A tol as hit semeth
That oure Lord loketh after
Of eche a lyf that wyneth,
Withoute wyles other wrong,
Other wommen atte stuwes,
And yut more, to make pees,
And quyte menne dettes,
Bothe spele and spare
To spene upon the needful,
As Crist self comandeth
To alle Cristene puple.
''Alter alterius onera porta.''
The messager aren the mendinans
That lyveth by menne almesse,
Beth nat y-bounde, as beeth the riche,
To bothe the two lawes,
To lene and to lere,
Ne lentenes to faste,
And other pryvey penaunces
The wiche the preest wol wel,
That the law yeveth leve
Suche lowe folke to be excused,
As none tythes to tythen,
Ne clothe the nakede,
Ne in enquestes to come,
Ne contumax thauh he worthe
Halyday other holy eve
Hus mete to deserve;
For yf he loveth and byleyveth
As the lawe techeth,
''Qui crediderit et baptizatus fuerit, etc.''
Telleth the lord a tale,
As a triwe messager,
And sheweth by seel and suthe by lettere
With wat lord he dwelleth,
Kneweleche hym crystene
And of holy churche byleyve,
Ther is no lawe, as ich leyve,
Wol let hym the gate,
Ther God is gatwarde hymself
And eche a gome knoweth.
The porter of pure reuthe
May parforme the lawe
In that he wilneth and wolde
Ech wight as hemself;
For the wil is as muche worth
Of a wretche beggere
As al that the ryche may reyme
And ryght fulliche dele,
And as much mede
For a myte that he offreth,
As the riche man for al is moneye,
And more, as by the Godspel:
''Amen dico vobis quia hæc vidua paupercula, etc.''
So that povre pacient
Is parfitest lif of alle,
And alle parfit preestes
To poverte sholde drawe.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 11#vs7128|7128]]{{anchor|notevs7128}}. Matth. xvii, 20 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7131|7131]]{{anchor|notevs7131}}. Psal. xxxiii, 11 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7141|7141]]{{anchor|notevs7141}}. Psal. xlii, 1 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7191|7191]]{{anchor|notevs7191}}. James ii, 10 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7194|7194]]{{anchor|notevs7194}}. ''over-skipperis.'' Those who skipped over words in reading or chanting the service of the church. The following distich points out the classes of defaulters in this respect{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ecclesiæ tres sunt qui servitium maie fallunt;
Momylers, for-scyppers, ovre-lepers, non bene psallunt.
{{gap|3.5em}}''Reliq. Antiq.'' p. 90. ''Poems of Walter Mapes'', p. 148.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


A still more numerous list of such offenders is given in the following lines from MS. Lansdowne, 762, fol. 101, v{{sup|o}}{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Hii sunt qui Psalmos corrumpunt nequitur almos:
Jangler cum jasper, lepar, galper quoque, draggar,
Momeler, for-skypper, for-reynner, sic et over-leper,
Fragmina verborum Tutivillus colligit horum.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Tutivillus was the popular name of one of the fiends (see Towneley Mysteries, pp. 310, 319; Reliq. Antiq. p. 257). According to an old legend, a hermit walking out met one of the devils bearing a large sack, very full, under the load of which he seemed to labour. The hermit asked him what he carried in his sack. He answered that it was filled with the fragments of words which the clerks had skipped over or mutilated in the performance of the service, and that he was carrying them to hell to be deposited among the stores there.

[[../Passus 11#vs7195|7195]]{{anchor|notevs7195}}. Psal. xlvi, 7, 8. 

[[../Passus 11#vs7264|7264]]{{anchor|notevs7264}}. ''Briddes I biheld.'' A similar sentiment is expressed in the following parallel passage of a modern poet{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
But most of all it wins my admiration
To view the structure of this little work—
A bird's nest. Mark it well, within, without,
No tool had he that wrought, no knife to cut,
No nail to fix, no bodkin to insert,
No glue to join; his little beak was all:
And yet how neatly finished! What nice hand,
With every implement and means of art,
And twenty years' apprenticeship to boot,
Could make me such another? Fondly then
We boast of excellence, where noblest skill
Instinctive genius foils.—''Hurdis.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 11#vs7342|7342]]{{anchor|notevs7342}}. Ecclesiasticus xi, 9 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7344|7344]]{{anchor|notevs7344}}. Instead of ll. 7344-7363, Whitaker's text has the following passage{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
'Ho suffreth more than God?' quath he,
'No gome, as ich leyve.
He myght amende in a mynt while
Al that amys stondes.
Ac he suffreth, in ensaumple
That we sholde all suffren.
Ys no vertue so feyr
Of value ne of profit,
As ys suffraunce, soveraynliche,
So hit be for Godes love,
And so wittnesseth the wyse,
And wysseth the Frenshe,
''Bele vertue est suffraunce,''
{{gap|1.4em}}''Mal dire est petite venjaunce;''
{{gap|1.4em}}''Bien dire e bien suffrer''
{{gap|1.4em}}''Fait ly suffrable à bien vener.''
For-thi.' quath Reson, 'Ich rede the,
Rewele thi tonge evere;
And er thow lacke eny lyf,
Loke ho is to preise.
For is no creature under Cryst,
That can hymselve make;
And yf cristene creatures
Couthen make hemselve,
Eche lede wolde be lacles,
Leyf thow non othere.
Man was mad of suche matere,
He may nat wel asterte,
That som tymes hym tit
To folwen hus kynde.
Caton acordeth herwith:
''Nemo sine crimine vivit.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 11#vs7347|7347]]{{anchor|notevs7347}}. Genes. i, 31 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7363|7363]]{{anchor|notevs7363}}. Cato, Distich. i, 5.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Si vitam inspicias hominum, si denique mores,
Quum culpent alios, nemo sine crimine vivit.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


It may be observed here, that Whitaker, in his note on this passage, has very much misunderstood Tyrwhitt (in Chaucer, [[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Miller#3227|Cant. T. 3227]]), in making him the authority for calling the author of the ''Disticha de Moribus'' an obscure French writer. Tyrwhitt says that the mode in which Chaucer spells his name (Caton) seems to show that the French translation was more read than the Latin original. The same observation would apply to the present poem: but I am very doubtful how far it is correct. The Distiches of Cato were translated into English, French, German, &amp;c., and were extremely popular. The author of these Distiches, Dionysius Cato, is supposed to have lived under the Antonines, and has certainly no claim to the title of ''an obscure French writer''.

[[../Passus 12#vs7441|7441]]{{anchor|notevs7441}}-[[../Passus 12#vs7642|7642]]. Instead of these lines, Whitaker has the following{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And wissede the ful ofte
What Dowel was to mene,
And counsailede the, for Cristes sake,
No creature to bygyle,
Nother to lye nor to lacke,
Ne lere that is defendid,
Ne to spille speche,
As to speke an ydel;
And no tyme to tene,
Ne trywe thyng to teenen;
Lowe the to lyve forth
In the lawe of holy churche,
Thenne dost thow wel, withoute drede,
Ho can do bet no forse.
Clerkes that connen al, ich hope,
Thei con do bettere;
Ac hit suffuseth to be saved,
And to be suche as ich tauhte:
Ac for to lovye and lene,
And lyve wel and byleyve,
Ys y-calid ''Caritas'',
Kynde-love in English,
And that is Dobet, yf eny suche be,
A blessed man that helpeth,
And pees be and pacience,
And povre withoute defaute.
''Beatius est dare quam petere.''
As catel and kynde witt
Encombre ful menye,
Woo is hym that hem weldeth,
Bote he hym wel dispeyne.
''Scientes et non facientes variis flagellis vapulabunt.''
Ac comunliche connynge
And unkynde rychesse,
As lorels to be lordes,
And lewede men techeres,
And holy churche horen help,
Averous and coveytous,
Droweth up Dowel,
And destruyeth Dobest.
Ac grace is a gras therfore
To don hem eft growe;
Ac grace groweth nat,
Til God wil gynne reyne,
And wokie thorwe goode werkes
Wikkede hertes;
Ac er suche a wil wol wexe,
God hymself worcheth,
And send forth seint espirit
To don love sprynge.
''Spiritus ubi vult spirat, etc.''
So grace withoute grace
Of God and of good werkes,
May nat bee, bee thow siker,
Thauh we bid evere.
Cleregie cometh bote of siht,
And kynd witt of sterres,
As to be bore other bygete
In suche constellacion
That wit wexeth therof,
And othere wordes bothe.
''Vultus hujus sæculi sunt subjecti vultibus cœlestibus.''
So grace is a gyfte of God,
And kynde witt a chaunce,
And cleregie and connyng of kynde
Wittes techynge;
And yut is cleregie to comende
Fore Cristes love more,
Than eny connynge of kynde witt,
Bote cleregie hit rewele.
For Moyses wutnesseth that God wrot
In stoon with hus fynger,
Lawe of love owre Lorde wrot,
Long ere Crist were;
And Crist cam and confermede,
And holy-churche made,
And in sond a sygne wrot,
And seide to the Jewes,
'That seeth hym synneles,
Cesse nat, ich hote,
To stryke with stoon other with staf
This strompett to dethe.'
''Qui vestrum sine peccato est, etc.''
For-thi ich consaily alle Cristene
Cleregie to honoure, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7453|7453]]{{anchor|notevs7453}}. Luke xii, 38 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7461|7461]]{{anchor|notevs7461}}. Heb. xii, 6 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7464|7464]]{{anchor|notevs7464}}. Psalm xxii, 4 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7470|7470]]{{anchor|notevs7470}}. ''makynges.'' [[../Passus 12#vs7483|7483]]{{anchor|notevs7483}}. ''make.''—There is a curious analogy between the Greek and the Teutonic languages in the name given to the poet—the Greek {{Polytonic|{{Tooltip|texttip=poiêtês|target=ποιήτης}}}} (from {{Polytonic|{{Tooltip|texttip=poiein|target=ποιεῖν}}}}), the Anglo-Saxon ''scóp'' (from ''sceopan'', to make or create), and the Middle-English ''maker'', preserved in the later Scottish ''makkar'' (also applied to a poet), have all the same signification. In the Neo-Latin tongues a different, though somewhat analogous, word was used: the French and Anglo-Norman ''trouvère'', and the Provençal ''trobador'', signify a finder or inventor.

[[../Passus 12#vs7484|7484]]{{anchor|notevs7484}}. Catonis Distich. iii, 5.

[[../Passus 12#vs7500|7500]]{{anchor|notevs7500}}. 1 Cor. xiii, 13 . Nunc autem manent fides, spes, charitas, tria hæc: major autem horum est charitas.

[[../Passus 12#vs7528|7528]]{{anchor|notevs7528}}, &amp;c. ''Aristotle'', ''Ypocras'', and ''Virgile''.—These three names were the great representatives of ancient science and literature in the middle ages. Aristotle represented philosophy, in its most general sense; Virgil represented literature in general, and more particularly the ancient writers who formed the ''grammar'' course of scholastic learning, whether verse or prose; Ypocras, or Hippocrates, represented medicine. They are here introduced to illustrate the fact that men of science and learning, as well as warriors and rich men, experience the vicissitudes of fortune.

[[../Passus 12#vs7534|7534]]{{anchor|notevs7534}}. ''Felice.'' Perhaps this name is only introduced for the sake of alliteration.

[[../Passus 12#vs7536|7536]]{{anchor|notevs7536}}. ''Rosamounde.'' I suppose the reference is to &quot;fair Rosamond.&quot;

[[../Passus 12#vs7554|7554]]{{anchor|notevs7554}}. Luc. vi, 38 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7567|7567]]{{anchor|notevs7567}}. John iii, 8 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7572|7572]]{{anchor|notevs7572}}. John iii, 11 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7582|7582]]{{anchor|notevs7582}}. John iii, 8 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7600|7600]]{{anchor|notevs7600}}. ''thorugh caractes.'' It was the popular belief in the middle ages, that while the Jews were accusing the woman taken in adultery, Christ wrote with his staff on the ground the sins of the accusers, and that when they perceived this they dropped their accusation in confusion at finding that their own guilt was known. See this point curiously illustrated in Mr. Halliwell's Coventry Mysteries, pp. 220, 221. These are the ''characters'' alluded to in Piers Ploughman.

[[../Passus 12#vs7624|7624]]{{anchor|notevs7624}}. Luke vi, 37 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7701|7701]]{{anchor|notevs7701}}. 1 Cor. iii, 19 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7709|7709]]{{anchor|notevs7709}}. Luke ii, 15 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7714|7714]]{{anchor|notevs7714}}. Matth. ii, 1 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7721|7721]]{{anchor|notevs7721}}. Luke ii, 7 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7779|7779]]{{anchor|notevs7779}}. Psalm xxxi, 1 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7795|7795]]{{anchor|notevs7795}}. Luke vi, 39 . The ignorance and inefficiency of the parish priests appear to have become proverbial in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. In the latter century a canon of Lilleshul in Shropshire, named John Myrk, or Myrkes, composed an English poem, or rather metrical treatise, on their duties, which he commences by applying to them this same aphorism of our Saviour{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
God seyth hymself, as wryten we fynde,
That whenne the blynde ledeth the blynde,
Into the dyche they fallen boo,
For they ne sen whare by to go.
So faren prestes now by dawe,
They beth blynde in Goddes lawe, etc.
{{gap|11.55em}}''MS. Cotton. Claud.'' A. II.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


It had previously been applied in the same manner to the parish priests by the author of a long French poem (apparently written in England in the fourteenth century) entitled ''Le Miroir de l'Ome'' (Speculum Hominis), as follows{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Dieus dist, et c'est tout verité,
Qe si l'un voegle soit mené
D'un autre voegle, tresbucher
Falt ambedeux en la fossée.
C'est un essample comparé
As fols curetz, qui sanz curer
Ne voient pas le droit sentier,
Dont font les autres forsvoier,
Qui sont après leur trace alé.
Car fol errant ne puet quider,
Ne cil comment nous puet saner,
Qui mesmes est au mort naufré.
{{gap|1.4em}}''MS. in the possession of Mr. J. Russell Smith.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The following picture of the corrupt manners of the parish priests at this time is extracted from a much longer and more minute censure in the same poem{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Des fols curetz auci y a,
Qui sur sa cure demourra
Non pour curer, mais q'il sa vie
Endroit le corps plus easera.
Car lors ou il bargaignera
Du seculiere marchandie,
Dont sa richesce multeplie;
Ou il se donne à leccherie,
Du quoy son corps delitera;
Ou il se prent à venerie,
Qant duist chanter sa letanie,
Au bois le goupil huera.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7802|7802]]{{anchor|notevs7802}}. Psal. xv, 5 . We might be led to suppose that this was the &quot;neck verse&quot; in the time of Piers Ploughman. In later times the text which was given to read to those who claimed the benefit of clergy is said to have been the beginning of Psal. lv, ''Miserere mei, &amp;c.'' 

[[../Passus 12#vs7840|7840]]{{anchor|notevs7840}}. Eccl. v, 5 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7846|7846]]{{anchor|notevs7846}}. ''Trojanus.'' See the [[#notevs6859|note]] on line 6859.

[[../Passus 12#vs7854|7854]]{{anchor|notevs7854}}. Matth. xvi, 27 . Filius enim hominis venturus est in gloria Patris sui cum angelis suis: et tunc reddet unicuique secundum opera ejus.

[[../Passus 12#vs7915|7915]]{{anchor|notevs7915}}. ''his flessh is foul flessh.'' Yet in spite of the &quot;foulness&quot; of its flesh, the peacock was a very celebrated dish at table. For an account of the use made of the peacock in feasts, see Le Grand d'Aussy, Histoire de la Vie privée des Français, tom. i, pp. 299-301, and 361. In the Romance of Mahomet, 13th century, it is said of Dives—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Et dou Riche qui ''tant poon''
''Englouti'' et tant bon poisson,
Tante piéche de venison,
Et but bon vin par grant delit, &amp;c.
{{gap|6.65em}}''Roman de Mahommet'', l. 301.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7944|7944]]{{anchor|notevs7944}}. ''Avynet.'' In the 14th and 15th centuries, as any grammar was called a ''Donet'', because the treatise of Donatus was the main foundation of them all, so, from Esop and Avienus from whom the materials were taken, any collection of fables was called an ''Avionet'' or an ''Esopet''. The title of one of these collections in a MS. of the Bibl. du Roi at Paris is, ''Compilacio Ysopi alata cum Avionetto, cum quibusdam addicionibus et moralitatibus''. (''Robert, Fabl. Inéd. Essay'', p. clxv.) Perhaps the reference in the present case is to the fable of the Peacock who complained of his voice, the 39th in the collection which M. Robert calls ''Ysopet'', in the morality to which are the following lines{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Les riches conteront
Des biens qu'il aront
En ce siecle conquis.
Cil qui petit ara,
De petit contera
Au Roy de paradis.
Qui vit en povreté,
Sans point d'iniquité,
Moult ara grant richesse
Es cieux, en paradis,
O dieux et ses amis
Seront joyeux et aise.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7961|7961]]{{anchor|notevs7961}}. Whitaker's text reads here{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thus Porfirie and Plato,
And poetes menye,
Lykneth in here logyk
The leeste fowel oute;
And whether hii be saf other nat saf
The sothe wot not clergie,
Ne of Sortes ne of Salamon
No scripture can telle,
Wether thei be in helle other in hevene,
Other Aristotle the wise.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7961|7961]]. ''Aristotle, the grete clerk.'' From the eleventh to the sixteenth centuries the influence of Aristotle's writings in the schools was all-powerful. It was considered almost an impiety to go against his authority. He was indeed &quot;the great clerk.&quot;

[[../Passus 12#vs7967|7967]]{{anchor|notevs7967}}. ''Sortes.'' I suppose this is an abbreviated form of the name Socrates. It occurs again in one of the poems printed among the Latin Poetry attributed to Walter Mapes (Camden Society's Publication), which has the following lines{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Adest ei bajulus cui nomen Gnato,
Præcedebat logicum gressu fatigato,
Dorso ferens sarcinam ventre tensus lato,
Plenam vestro dogmate, o ''Sortes et Plato''.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7987|7987]]{{anchor|notevs7987}}. 1 Peter iv, 18 .

[[../Passus 12#vs8015|8015]]{{anchor|notevs8015}}. Psalm xxii, 4 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8073|8073]]{{anchor|notevs8073}}. ''a maister.'' This word was generally used in the scholastic ages in a restricted sense, to signify one who had taken his degrees in the schools—a master of arts.

[[../Passus 13#vs8103|8103]]{{anchor|notevs8103}}. Luke x, 7 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8133|8133]]{{anchor|notevs8133}}-[[../Passus 13#vs8137|8137]]{{anchor|notevs8137}}. These are the indications of different Psalms. Psalm li  begins with the words, ''Miserere mei, Deus'', secundum magnam misericordiam tuam. The thirty-first Psalm  commences with the words, ''Beati quorum'' remissæ sunt iniquitates, ''et quorum tecta sunt peccata''. ''Beatus vir'', is the beginning of Psalm i . The fifth verse of Psalm xxxi  contains the words ''Dixi: Confitebor'' adversum me injustitiam meam Domino.

[[../Passus 13#vs8141|8141]]{{anchor|notevs8141}}. Psalm xxxi, 6 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8145|8145]]{{anchor|notevs8145}}. Psalm l, 19 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8153|8153]]{{anchor|notevs8153}}. Isaiah v, 22 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8155|8155]]{{anchor|notevs8155}}. Whitaker's text has—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And ete meny sondry metes,
Mortrews and poddynges,
Braun and blod of the goos,
Bacon and colhopes.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The second Trin. Coll. MS. has—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And sette many sundry metis,
Mortreux and puddynges,
Braun and blood of gees,
Bacoun and colopis.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 13#vs8167|8167]]{{anchor|notevs8167}}. 2 Corinth. xi, 24 , 25, 27.

[[../Passus 13#vs8173|8173]]{{anchor|notevs8173}}, [[../Passus 13#vs8180|8180]]{{anchor|notevs8180}}. 2 Cor. xi, 26 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8202|8202]]{{anchor|notevs8202}}. ''Mahoun.'' Mahoun was the middle-age name of Mohammed, and in the popular writers was often taken in the mere sense of an idol or pagan deity.

[[../Passus 13#vs8204|8204]]{{anchor|notevs8204}}. ''justly wombe.'' MS. Trin. Coll. 2.

[[../Passus 13#vs8225|8225]]{{anchor|notevs8225}}. ''in a frayel.'' Whitaker's text has ''in a forel'', which he explains by &quot;a wicker basket.&quot; The second Trin. Coll. MS. has also ''in a forell''. ''Forel'' is the Low-Latin ''forellus'', a bag, sack, or purse: a ''frayel'' (''fraellum'') was a little wicker basket, such as were used for carrying figs or grapes.

[[../Passus 13#vs8273|8273]]{{anchor|notevs8273}}. Matth. v, 19 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8292|8292]]{{anchor|notevs8292}}. Psalm xiv, 1 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8368|8368]]{{anchor|notevs8368}}. 1 John iv, 18 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8416|8416]]{{anchor|notevs8416}}. Luke xix, 8 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8418|8418]]{{anchor|notevs8418}}. Luke xxi, 1-4.

[[../Passus 13#vs8444|8444]]{{anchor|notevs8444}}. ''Surré.'' Syria.

[[../Passus 13#vs8474|8474]]{{anchor|notevs8474}}. ''a mynstrall.'' The description of the minstrel given here is very curious. For a sketch of the character of this profession see Mr. Shaw's &quot;Dresses and Decorations of the Middle Ages;&quot; and for more enlarged details of the history of the craft the reader may consult the Introduction to Percy's Reliques, and Chappell's History of National Airs.

[[../Passus 13#vs8518|8518]]{{anchor|notevs8518}}. ''a pardon with a peis of leed.'' The papal bulls, &amp;c., had seals of lead, instead of wax.

[[../Passus 13#vs8526|8526]]{{anchor|notevs8526}}. Marc. xvi, 17 , 18.

[[../Passus 13#vs8541|8541]]{{anchor|notevs8541}}. Acts iii, 6 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8554|8554]]{{anchor|notevs8554}}. Whitaker's text omits all that follows here to l. 8958 of our text, entering very abruptly upon the subject there treated. Some of the intervening matter had already been inserted in other places in Whitaker's text. See our notes on ll. [[#notevs2846|2846]] and [[#notevs3030|3030]].

[[../Passus 13#vs8567|8567]]{{anchor|notevs8567}}. ''cart ... with breed fro Stratforde.'' Stratford-at-Bow is said to have been famous in old times for its numerous bakers, who supplied a great part of the metropolis. Stowe, in his Survey of London, p. 159 (who appears to have altered the text of Piers Ploughman to suit his own calculation, for all the manuscripts and printed editions I have collated give &quot;twice ''twenty'' and ten&quot;), observes, &quot;And because I have here before spoken of the bread carts comming from Stratford at the Bow, ye shall understand that of olde time the bakers of breade at Stratford were allowed to bring dayly (except the Sabbaoth and principall feast) diverse long cartes laden with bread, the same being two ounces in the pennie wheate loafe heavier than the penny wheate loafe baked in the citie, the same to be solde in Cheape, three or foure carts standing there, betweene Gutherans lane and Fausters lane ende, one cart on Cornehill, by the conduit, and one other in Grasse streete. And I have reade that in the fourth yere of Edward the second, Richard Reffeham being maior, a baker named John of Stratforde, for making bread lesser than the assise, was with a fooles whoode on his head, and loaves of bread about his necke, drawne on a hurdle through the streets of this citie. Moreover in the 44. of Edward the third, John Chichester being maior of London, I read in the visions of Pierce Plowman, a booke so called, as followeth. ''There was a careful commune when no cart came to towne with baked bread from Stratford: the gan beggers weepe, and workemen were agast, a little this will be thought long in the date of our Dirte, in a drie Averell a thousand and three hundred, twise thirtie and ten, &amp;c.'' I reade also in the 20. of Henrie the eight, Sir James Spencer being maior, six bakers of Stratford were merced in the Guildhall of London, for baking under the size appoynted. These bakers of Stratford left serving of this citie, I know not uppon what occasion, about 30 yeares since.&quot;

[[../Passus 13#vs8572|8572]]{{anchor|notevs8572}}. ''a drye Aprill.'' This is without doubt the dry season placed by Fabyan in the year 1351, which, as he describes it, began with the month of April. The difference of the date arises probably from a different system of computation. Fabian says, &quot;In the sommer of this xxvii yeare, it was so drie that it was many yeres after called the drie sommer. For from the latter ende of March, till the latter ende of Julye, fell lytle rayne or none, by reason whereof manye inconveniences ensued.&quot;

[[../Passus 13#vs8576|8576]]{{anchor|notevs8576}}. ''Whan Chichestre was maire.'' According to Fabyan, John Chichester was mayor only once, in 1368, 1369, which was the period of the &quot;thirde mortalytie.&quot; The other authorities seem to agree in giving this as the year of Chichester's mayoralty. He may perhaps have been mayor more than once. See {{sc|Introduction}}.

[[../Passus 13#vs8645|8645]]{{anchor|notevs8645}}. Galat. i, 10 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8685|8685]]{{anchor|notevs8685}}. Psalm x, 7 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8707|8707]]{{anchor|notevs8707}}, [[../Passus 13#vs8708|8708]]{{anchor|notevs8708}}. The two persons mentioned here (the shoemaker of Southwark and dame Emma of Shoreditch) were probably eminent sorcerers and fortune-tellers of the time.

[[../Passus 13#vs8769|8769]]{{anchor|notevs8769}}-[[../Passus 13#vs8778|8778]]. To understand fully this passage, it must be borne in mind that the corn lands were not so universally hedged as at present, and that the portions belonging to different persons were separated only by a narrow furrow, as is still the case in some of the uninclosed lands in Cambridgeshire.

[[../Passus 13#vs8812|8812]]{{anchor|notevs8812}}. ''Brugges.'' Bruges was the great mart of continental commerce during the thirteenth, fourteenth, and fifteenth centuries.

[[../Passus 13#vs8813|8813]]{{anchor|notevs8813}}. ''Pruce-lond''—Prussia, which was then the farthest country in the interior of Europe with which a regular trade was carried on by the English merchants.

[[../Passus 13#vs8827|8827]]{{anchor|notevs8827}}. Matth. vi, 21 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8858|8858]]{{anchor|notevs8858}}. Luke vi, 25 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8879|8879]]{{anchor|notevs8879}}. Psalm ci, 7 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8891|8891]]{{anchor|notevs8891}}. ''a lady of sorwe.'' The old printed edition has a ''laye of sorow''.

[[../Passus 14#vs8900|8900]]{{anchor|notevs8900}}. Whitaker has no division here, but continues the previous ''passus'', and omits many lines and has many variations in what follows.

[[../Passus 14#vs8903|8903]]{{anchor|notevs8903}}. ''I slepe therinne o nyghtes.'' This passage is curious, because at the time the poem was written, it was the custom for all classes of society to go to bed quite naked, a practice which is said to have been not entirely laid aside in the sixteenth century. We see constant proofs of this practice in the illuminations of old manuscripts. The following memorial lines are written in the margin of a MS. of the thirteenth century{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ne be thi winpil nevere so jelu ne so stroutende,
Ne thi faire tail so long ne so trailende,
That tu ne schalt at evin al kuttid bilevin,
And tou schalt to bedde gon so nakid as tou were [borin].
{{gap|9.8em}}''MS. Cotton. Cleop. C.'' VI, fol. 22, r{{sup|o}}.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


In the Roman de la Violette, the old nurse expresses her astonishment that her young mistress should retain her chemise when she goes to bed{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Et quant elle son lit fait a,
Sa dame apiele, si se couche
Nue en chemise en la couche;
C'onques en trestoute sa vie
La biele, blonde, l'escavie,
Ne volt demostrer sa char nue.
La vielle en est au lit venue,
Puis li a dit: 'Dame, j'esgart
Une chose, se Dex me gart,
Dont je sui molt esmervillie
C'onques ne vous vi despoillie,
Et si vous ai vij. ans gardée;
Molt vous ai souvent esgardée
Que vo chemise ne sachiés!'
{{gap|6.3em}}''Rom. de la Viol.'' l. 577.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The lady explains her conduct by stating that she has a mark on the breast which she had promised that no one should ever see.

[[../Passus 14#vs8906|8906]]{{anchor|notevs8906}}. Luke xiv, 20 .

[[../Passus 14#vs8950|8950]]{{anchor|notevs8950}}. ''noon heraud ne harpour.'' Robes and other garments were among the most usual gifts bestowed upon minstrels and heralds by the princes and great barons. See before, ll. [[../Passus 13#vs8480|8480]], [[../Passus 13#vs8481|8481]].

[[../Passus 14#vs8970|8970]]{{anchor|notevs8970}}. Matth. vi, 25 , 26.

[[../Passus 14#vs8999|8999]]{{anchor|notevs8999}}. John xiv, 13 ; xv, 16. Matth. iv, 4 .

[[../Passus 14#vs9037|9037]]{{anchor|notevs9037}}. Psalm cxliv, 16 .

[[../Passus 14#vs9039|9039]]{{anchor|notevs9039}}. ''fourty wynter.'' During the forty years that the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness, they did not apply themselves to agriculture.

[[../Passus 14#vs9049|9049]]{{anchor|notevs9049}}. ''Sevene slepe.'' The legend of the seven sleepers was remarkably popular during the middle ages.

[[../Passus 14#vs9101|9101]]{{anchor|notevs9101}}. Psalm xxxi. 1.

[[../Passus 14#vs9176|9176]]{{anchor|notevs9176}}. Psalm lxxv, 6 .

[[../Passus 14#vs9178|9178]]{{anchor|notevs9178}}. Psalm lxxii, 20 . Whitaker's ''Passus sextus de Dowel'' ends with this quotation.

[[../Passus 14#vs9317|9317]]{{anchor|notevs9317}}. Both in the Vision of Piers Ploughman, and in the Creed, there are frequent expressions of indignation at the extravagant expenditure in painting the windows of the abbeys and churches. It must not be forgotten that a little later the same feeling as that exhibited in these satires led to the destruction of many of the noblest monuments of medieval art.

[[../Passus 14#vs9344|9344]]{{anchor|notevs9344}}. Mat. xix, 23 , 24.

[[../Passus 14#vs9347|9347]]{{anchor|notevs9347}}. Apocal. xiv, 13 .

[[../Passus 14#vs9352|9352]]{{anchor|notevs9352}}. Matth. v, 3 .

[[../Passus 14#vs9452|9452]]{{anchor|notevs9452}}. Compare the defence of poverty in Chaucer ([[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Wife of Bath#1192|Cant. T. 6774]]){{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Juvenal saith of poverte merily:
The poore man, whan he goth by the way,
Beforn the theves he may sing and play.
''Poverte is hateful good''; and, as I gesse,
A ful gret ''bringer out of besinesse'';
A ''gret amender'' eke ''of sapience'',
To him that taketh it in patience.
Poverte is this although it seme elenge,
''Possession that no wight wol challenge.''
Poverte ful often, whan a man is low,
Maketh his God and eke himself to know:
Poverte a spectakel is, as thinketh me,
Thurgh which he may his veray frendes see.
And therfore, sire, sin that I you not greve,
Of my poverte no more me repreve.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The definition given in Piers Ploughman is taken from the Dialogues of Secundus, where it is thus expressed:—&quot;Quid est paupertas? Odibile bonum, sanitatis mater, curarum remotio, absque sollicitudine semita, sapientiæ reparatrix, negotium sine damno, intractabilis substantia, possessio absque calumnia, incerta fortuna, sine sollicitudine felicitas.&quot; (MS. Reg. 9 A xiv, fol. 140 v{{sup|o}}.) See also Roger de Hoveden, p. 816, and Vincent de Beauvais, Spec. Hist. lib. x, c. 71.

[[../Passus 14#vs9517|9517]]{{anchor|notevs9517}}. ''the paas of Aultone.'' Whitaker has ''Haultoun'', and says that this pass is Halton &quot;in Cheshire, formerly infamous to a proverb as a haunt of robbers.&quot;

[[../Passus 14#vs9529|9529]]{{anchor|notevs9529}}. ''Cantabit, etc.'' The author has modified, or the scribes have corrupted, the well-known line of Juvenal,

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Cantabit vacuus coram latrone viator.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 15#vs9665|9665]]{{anchor|notevs9665}}. These definitions will be found in Isidore, Etymol. lib. xl, c. 1, and Different, lib. ii, c. 29. They are repeated by Alcuin, De Anim. Rat. N. x, p. 149, ''Anima'' est, dum vivificat; dum contemplatur, ''spiritus'' est; dum sentit, ''sensus'' est; dum sapit, ''animus'' est; dum intelligit, ''mens'' est; dum discernit, ''ratio'' est; dum consentit, ''voluntas'' est; dum recordatur, ''memoria'' est.

[[../Passus 15#vs9708|9708]]{{anchor|notevs9708}}. Prov. xxv, 27 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9740|9740]]{{anchor|notevs9740}}. Epist. ad Rom. xii, 3 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9751|9751]]{{anchor|notevs9751}}. ''the seven synnes.'' The seven deadly sins were—pride, anger, envy, sloth, covetousness, gluttony, and lechery. &quot;Now ben they cleped chiefetaines, for as moche as they be chiefe, and of hem springen alle other sinnes. The rote of thise sinnes than is pride, the general rote of alle harmes. For of this rote springen certain braunches: as, ire, envie, accidie or slouthe, avarice or coveitise, (to commun understonding) glotonie, and lecherie: and eche of thise chief sinnes hath his braunches and his twigges.&quot; Chaucer, {{Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Parson#s23|Persones Tale, p. 40]].

[[../Passus 15#vs9766|9766]]{{anchor|notevs9766}}. Psal. xcvi, 7 ; iv, 3 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9828|9828]]{{anchor|notevs9828}}. ''in Latyn.'' The monks had collections of comparisons, similitudes, proverbs, &amp;c., to be introduced in their sermons, and even when preaching in English they generally quoted them in Latin. This I suppose to be the meaning of the expression here.

[[../Passus 15#vs9918|9918]]{{anchor|notevs9918}}. Matth. xviii, 3 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9934|9934]]{{anchor|notevs9934}}. 1 Corinth. xiii, 4 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9946|9946]]{{anchor|notevs9946}}. 1 Corinth. xiii, 12 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9957|9957]]{{anchor|notevs9957}}. ''a tunicle of Tarse.'' Tarse was the name given to a kind of silk, said to have been brought from a country of that name on the borders of Cathai, or China. Chaucer ([[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Knight#2160|Cant. T. l. 2162]]), describing &quot;the king of Inde,&quot; says—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
His coote armour was of a cloth of Tars,
Cowched of perlys whyte, round and grete.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Ducange (v. ''Tarsicus'') quotes a visitation of the treasury of St. Paul's, London, in 1295, where there is mention of Tunica et dalmatica de ''panno Indico Tarsico'' Besantato de auro, and of a Casula de ''panno Tarsico''.

[[../Passus 15#vs10004|10004]]{{anchor|notevs10004}}. Psal. vi, 7 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10009|10009]]{{anchor|notevs10009}}. Psal. l, 19 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10062|10062]]{{anchor|notevs10062}}. Matth. vi, 16 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10069|10069]]{{anchor|notevs10069}}. ''Edmond and Edward.'' St. Edmund the martyr, king of East Anglia, and king Edward the Confessor.

[[../Passus 15#vs10124|10124]]{{anchor|notevs10124}}. Psal. iv, 9 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10159|10159]]{{anchor|notevs10159}}. ''Antony and Egidie.'' Whitaker has ''Antonie and Ersenie''. St. Antony is well known as the father and patron of monks, and for the persecutions he underwent from the devil. St. Giles, or Egidius, is said to have been a Greek, who came to France about the end of the seventh century, and established himself in a hermitage near the mouth of the Rhone, and afterwards in the neighbourhood of Nismes. Arsenius was a noble Roman who, at the end of the fourth century, retired to Egypt to live the life of an anchoret in the desert.

[[../Passus 15#vs10174|10174]]{{anchor|notevs10174}}. ''after an hynde cride.'' The monkish biographer of St. Giles relates, that he was for some time nourished with the milk of a hind in the forest, and that a certain prince discovered his retreat while hunting in his woods, by pursuing the hind till it took shelter in St. Giles's hermitage.

[[../Passus 15#vs10183|10183]]{{anchor|notevs10183}}. ''Hadde a bird.'' This incident is not found in the common lives of St. Antony.

[[../Passus 15#vs10187|10187]]{{anchor|notevs10187}}. ''Poul.'' Paul was a Grecian hermit, who lived in the tenth century in the wilderness of Mount Latrus, and became the founder of one of the monastic establishments there. He was famous for the rigorous severity of his life.

[[../Passus 15#vs10203|10203]]{{anchor|notevs10203}}. ''Marie Maudeleyne.'' By Mary Magdalen here is meant probably St. Mary the Egyptian, who lived in the fifth century, and who, according to the legend, after having spent her youth in unbridled debauchery, repented in her twenty-ninth year, and lived during the remainder of her life (forty-seven years) in the wilderness beyond the Jordan, without seeing one human being during that time, and sustained only by the precarious food which she found in the desert.

[[../Passus 15#vs10239|10239]]{{anchor|notevs10239}}. Whitaker's text here adds a passage relating to Tobias{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Marie Magdalene
By mores levede and dewes;
Love and leel byleyve
Heeld lyf and soule togedere.

{{gap|0.7em}}Maria Egyptiaca
Eet in thyrty wynter
Bote thre lytel loves,
And love was her souel.
Ich can nat rekene hem ryght now,
Ne reherce here names,
That lyveden thus for oure Lordes love
Meny longe yeres,
Whitoute borwyng other beggyng,
Other the boke lyeth;
And woneden in wildernesse
Among wilde bestes;
Ac dorst no beste byten hem
By daye ne by nyghte,
Bote myldeliche whan thei metten
Maden louh chere,
And feyre byfore the men
Fauhnede whith the tayles.
Ac bestes brouhte hem no mete,
Bote onliche the fouweles;
In tokenynge that trywe man
Alle tymes sholde
Fynde honeste men in holy men
And other ryghtful peuple.
For wolde never feithful goud
That freres and monkes token
Lyflode of luther wynnynges
In al here lyf tyme;
As wytnesseth holy writt
Whot Thobie deyde
To is wif, whan he was blynde,
Herde a lambe blete,—
'A! wyf, be war,' quath he,
'What ye have here ynne.
Lord leyve,' quath the lede,
'No stole thyng be here!'
''Videte ne furtum sit. Et alibi, Melius est mori quam male vivere.''
This is no more to mene,
Bote men of holy churche
Sholde receyve ryght nauth
Bot that ryght wolde,
And refuse reverences
And raveneres offrynges;
Thenne wolde lordes and ladies
Be loth to agulte,
And to take of here tenaunts
More than treuthe wolde;
And marchauns merciable wolde be,
And men of lawe bothe.
Wold religeouse refuse
Raveneres almesse,
Then Grace sholde growe yut
And grene-leved wexe,
And Charité, that child is now,
Sholde chaufen of hem self,
And comfortye all crystene,
Wold holy churche amende.
Job the parfit patriarch
This proverbe wrot and tauhte,
To makye a man lovye mesure,
That monkes beeth and freeres.
''Nunquam dicit Job, rugiet onager, etc.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Throughout this part of the poem, Whitaker's text differs very much in words and phraseology from the one now printed, but it would take up too much space to point out all these variations.

[[../Passus 15#vs10247|10247]]{{anchor|notevs10247}}. Job vi, 5 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10270|10270]]{{anchor|notevs10270}}. 2 Corinth. ix, 9 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10303|10303]]{{anchor|notevs10303}}. These sentences appear to be quotations from the fathers of the Latin Church.

[[../Passus 15#vs10322|10322]]{{anchor|notevs10322}}. ''lussheburwes.'' A foreign coin, much adulterated, common in England in the middle of the fourteenth century. Chaucer ([[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Monk#3149|C. T. 15445]]) uses the word in a very expressive passage{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
This maketh that oure wyfes wol assaye
Religious folk, for thay may bettre paye
Of Venus payementes than may we:
God woot! no ''lusscheburghes'' paye ye.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Among the foreign money, mostly of a base quality, which came into this country in the fourteenth century, the coinage of the counts of Luxemburg, or, as it was then called, Lusenburg (hence called ''lussheburwes'' and ''lusscheburghes''), seems to have been the most abundant, and to have given most trouble. These coins were the subject of legislation in 1346, 1347, 1348, and 1351; so that the grievance must have been at its greatest height at the period to which the poem of Piers Ploughman especially belongs. Many of these coins are preserved, and found in the cabinets of collectors; they are in general very much like the contemporary English coinage, and might easily be taken for it, but the metal is very base.

[[../Passus 15#vs10368|10368]]{{anchor|notevs10368}}. ''Grammer, the ground of al.'' In the scholastic learning of the middle ages, grammar was considered as the first of the seven sciences, and the foundation-stone of all the rest. See my Essay on Anglo-Saxon Literature, introductory to vol. i. of the ''Biographia Britannica Literaria'', p. 72. The importance of grammar is thus stated in the ''Image du Monde'' of Gautier de Metz (thirteenth century){{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Li primeraine des vij. ars,
Dont or n'est pas seus li quars,
A ichest tans, chou est gramaire,
Sans laquele nus ne vaut gaire
Qui à clergie veut aprendre:
Car petit puet sans li entendre.
Gramaires si est fondemens
De clergie et coumenchemens;
Cou est li porte de science,
Par cui on vient à sapience.
De lettres en gramaire escole
Qui ensegne et forme parole,
Soit en Latin ou en Roumans,
Ou en tous langages palans;
Qui bien saroit toute gramaire,
Toute parole saroit faire.
Par parole fist Dius le monde,
Et sentence est parole monde.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 15#vs10398|10398]]{{anchor|notevs10398}}. ''Corpus Christi feeste.'' Corpus Christi day was a high festival of the Church of Rome, held annually on the Thursday after Trinity Sunday, in memory, as was said, of the miraculous confirmation of transubstantiation under pope Urban IV.

[[../Passus 15#vs10418|10418]]{{anchor|notevs10418}}. ''This Makometh.'' This account of Mohammed was the one most popularly current in the middle ages. According to Hildebert, who wrote a life of the pseudo-prophet in Latin verse in the twelfth century, Mohammed was a Christian, skilled in magical arts, who, on the death of the patriarch of Jerusalem, aspired to succeed him{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Nam male devotus quidam baptismate lotus,
{{gap|1.4em}}Plenus perfidia vixit in ecclesia.
&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;
Nam cum transisset Pater illius urbis, et isset
{{gap|1.4em}}In cœlum subito corpore disposito,
Tunc exaltari magus hic et pontificari
{{gap|1.4em}}Affectans avide; se tamen hæc pavide
Dixit facturum, nisi sciret non nociturum
{{gap|1.4em}}Si præsul fiat, cum Deus hoc cupiat.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


His intrigues being discovered, the emperor drives him away, and in revenge he goes and founds a new sect. The story of the pigeon (which is not in Hildebert) is found in Vincent of Beauvais, Spec. Hist. lib. xxiii, c. 40. This story is said to be founded in truth. Neither of them are found in the Roman de Mahomet (by Alexander du Pont), written in the thirteenth century, and edited by MM. Reinaud and Michel, Paris, 1831, 8vo, a work which contains much information concerning the Christian notions relative to Mohammed in the middle ages.

[[../Passus 15#vs10478|10478]]{{anchor|notevs10478}}. John xvi, 24 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10481|10481]]{{anchor|notevs10481}}, [[../Passus 15#vs10486|10486]]{{anchor|notevs10486}}. Matth. v, 13 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10499|10499]]{{anchor|notevs10499}}. ''Ellevene holy men.'' The eleven apostles who remained after the apostasy of Judas and the crucifixion of their Lord.

[[../Passus 15#vs10550|10550]]{{anchor|notevs10550}}. ''Ne fesauntz y-bake.'' The pheasant was formerly held in the same honour as the peacock (see before the note on l. 7915), and was served at table in the same manner. It was considered one of the most precious dishes. See Le Grand d'Aussy, Hist. de la Vie privée des François, ii, 19. The Miroir de l'Ome (MS. in the possession of Mr. Russell Smith) says (punning) of the luxurious prelates of the fourteenth century,—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Pour le phesant et le bon vin
Le bien-faisant et le divin
L'evesque laist à nonchalure;
Si quiert la coupe et crusequin,
Ainz que la culpe du cristin
Pour corriger et mettre en cure.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 15#vs10553|10553]]{{anchor|notevs10553}}. Matth. xxii, 4 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10581|10581]]{{anchor|notevs10581}}. Mark xvi, 15 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10585|10585]]{{anchor|notevs10585}}. ''So manye prelates.'' [[../Passus 15#vs10699|10699]]{{anchor|notevs10699}}. ''that huppe aboute in Engelond.'' The pope appointed many titular bishops of foreign sees in which, from the nature of circumstances, they could not possibly reside, and who therefore were a burthen upon the church. Some of these prelates appear to have resorted to England, and to have exercised the episcopal functions, consecrating churches, &amp;c. The church of Elsfield, in Oxfordshire, was consecrated by a foreign bishop. (See Kennett's Parochial Antiquities.)

[[../Passus 15#vs10593|10593]]{{anchor|notevs10593}}. John x, 11 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10599|10599]]{{anchor|notevs10599}}. Matth. xx, 4 , 7.

[[../Passus 15#vs10606|10606]]{{anchor|notevs10606}}. Matth. vii, 7 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10617|10617]]{{anchor|notevs10617}}. Galat. vi, 14 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10632|10632]]{{anchor|notevs10632}}. ''That roode thei honoure.'' A cross was the common mark on the reverse of our English money at this period, and for a long time previous to it. The point of satirical wit in this passage of Piers Ploughman appears to be taken from the old Latin rhymes of the beginning of the thirteenth century. See the curious poem ''De Cruce Denarii'', in Walter Mapes, p. 223. Another poem in the same volume (p. 38) speaks thus of the court of Rome{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Nummis in hac curia non est qui non vacet;
''Crux'' placet, rotunditas, et albedo placet.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 15#vs10637|10637]]{{anchor|notevs10637}}. ''Shul torne as templers dide.'' The suppression of the order of the Templars was at this time fresh in people's memories. It was the general belief, and not without some foundation, that the Templars had entirely degenerated from their original sanctity and faithfulness, and that before the dissolution of the order they were addicted to degrading vices and superstitions; and they were accused of sacrificing everything else to their grasping covetousness.

[[../Passus 15#vs10659|10659]]{{anchor|notevs10659}}. ''Whan Constantyn.'' The Christian church began first to be endowed with wealth and power under the emperor Constantine the Great.

[[../Passus 15#vs10649|10649]]{{anchor|notevs10649}}. Luke i, 52 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10695|10695]]{{anchor|notevs10695}}-[[../Passus 20#vs10699|10699]]. Instead of these lines, Whitaker's text has the following{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And bereth name of Neptalym,
Of Nynyve and Damaske.
For when the holy kynge of hevene
Sende hus sone to eerthe,
Meny myracles he wroughte,
Man for to turne,
In ensample that men sholde
See by sad reyson
That men myghte nat be savede
Bote thorw mercy and grace,
And thorw penaunce and passioun,
And parfyght byleyve;
And bycam a man of a mayde,
And ''metropolitanus''
And baptisede an busshoppede
Whit the blode of hus herte,
Alle that wilnede other wolde
Whit inwhight byleyve hit.
Meny seint sitthe
Suffrede deth alsoo,
For to enferme the faithe
Ful wyde where deyden,
In Inde and in Alisaundrie,
In Ermanye, in Spayne;
An fro mysbyleve
Meny man turnede.
In savacion of mannys saule
Seynt Thomas of Cauntelbury
Among unkynde Cristene
In holy churche was sleye,
And alle holy churche
Honourede for that deyinge:
He is a forbusur to alle busshopes,
And a bryghthe myrour,
And sovereynliche to alle suche
That of Surrye bereth name,
And nat in Engelounde to huppe aboute,
And halewen men auters.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


In the remainder of this passus, Whitaker's text differs much from the one I have printed, but in such a manner that to give here the variations it would be necessary to reprint the whole. In the remainder of the poem, the variations are not great or important, being only such as we always find in different copies of poems which enjoyed considerable popularity.

[[../Passus 15#vs10716|10716]]{{anchor|notevs10716}}. Isai. iii, 7 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10721|10721]]{{anchor|notevs10721}}. Malach. iii, 10 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10733|10733]]{{anchor|notevs10733}}. Luke x, 27 . Diliges Dominum Deum tuum ex toto corde tuo, et ex tota anima tua, et ex omni mente tua, et proximum tuum sicut teipsum.

[[../Passus 15#vs10755|10755]]{{anchor|notevs10755}}. John xi, 43 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10787|10787]]{{anchor|notevs10787}}. ''litlum and litlum'', by little and little, gradually. It is the pure Anglo-Saxon phrase. In the Anglo-Saxon version of Genesis xl, 10 , the Latin ''paulatim'' is rendered by ''lytlum and lytlum''.

[[../Passus 16#vs10844|10844]]{{anchor|notevs10844}}. Psal. xxxvi, 24 .

[[../Passus 16#vs10891|10891]]{{anchor|notevs10891}}. Matth. xii, 32 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11000|11000]]{{anchor|notevs11000}}. Luke i, 38 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11023|11023]]{{anchor|notevs11023}}. Matth. ix, 12 . Mark ii, 17 . Luke v, 31 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11033|11033]]{{anchor|notevs11033}}. Matth. xxvi, 37 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11044|11044]]{{anchor|notevs11044}}. Matth. xi, 18 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11075|11075]]{{anchor|notevs11075}}. Matth. xxi, 13 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11121|11121]]{{anchor|notevs11121}}. Matth. xviii, 7 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11238|11238]]{{anchor|notevs11238}}. Matth. xxvii, 46 , and Mark xv, 34 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11300|11300]]{{anchor|notevs11300}}. Rom. iv, 13 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11322|11322]]{{anchor|notevs11322}}. John i, 29  and 36.

[[../Passus 17#vs11396|11396]]{{anchor|notevs11396}}. Matth. xx, 40.

[[../Passus 17#vs11518|11518]]{{anchor|notevs11518}}, [[../Passus 17#vs11520|11520]]{{anchor|notevs11520}}. ''lo! here silver ... two pens.'' It must be remembered that at this period the mass of the coinage, including pence, halfpence, and farthings, was of silver; copper came into use for the smaller coinage at a later period. Two pence of Edward III would be worth about two shillings of our modern money.

[[../Passus 17#vs11670|11670]]{{anchor|notevs11670}}. John xii, 32.

[[../Passus 17#vs11708|11708]]{{anchor|notevs11708}}. ''tu fabricator omnium.'' This was one of the hymns of the catholic church.

[[../Passus 17#vs11866|11866]]{{anchor|notevs11866}}. Luke xiii, 27 .

[[../Passus 17#vs11883|11883]]{{anchor|notevs11883}}. 1 Corinth. xiii, 1 .

[[../Passus 17#vs11894|11894]]{{anchor|notevs11894}}. Matth. vii, 21 .

[[../Passus 17#vs11998|11998]]{{anchor|notevs11998}}. ''Thre thynges.'' This proverb is frequently quoted by the satirical and facetious writers of the middle ages. Thus in Chaucer ([[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Wife of Bath#278|C. T. 5860]]){{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thou saist, that droppyng houses, and eek smoke,
And chydyng wyves, maken men to fle
Out of here oughne hous.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


In the poem entitled Golias de Conjuge non ducenda, in Walter Mapes, p. 83, the proverb is alluded to in the following words{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Fumus, et mulier, et stillicidia,
Expellunt hominem a domo propria.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


There was an old French proverbial distich to the same effect,—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Fumée, pluye, et femme sans raison,
Chassent l'homme de sa maison.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 17#vs12040|12040]]{{anchor|notevs12040}}. 2 Corinth. xii, 9.

[[../Passus 18#vs12097|12097]]{{anchor|notevs12097}}. ''to be dubbed.'' These and the following lines contain a continued allusion to the ceremonies of knighthood and tournaments.

[[../Passus 18#vs12106|12106]]{{anchor|notevs12106}}. Psal. cxvii, 26 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12211|12211]]{{anchor|notevs12211}}. Matth. xxvii, 54 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12232|12232]]{{anchor|notevs12232}}, [[../Passus 18#vs12244|12244]]{{anchor|notevs12244}}. ''Longeus ... this blynde bacheler.'' This alludes to one of the many legends which the monks engrafted upon the scripture history. Longeus is said to have been the name of the soldier who pierced the side of Christ with his spear; and it is pretended that he was previously blind from his birth, but that the blood of the Saviour ran down his spear, and a drop of it touching his eye, he was instantly restored to sight, by which miracle he was converted. See, in illustration of this subject, Halliwell's Coventry Mysteries, p. 334; The Towneley Mysteries, p. 321; Jubinal, Mystères inédits du quinzième Siècle, tom. ii, pp. 254-257; &amp;c.

[[../Passus 18#vs12319|12319]]{{anchor|notevs12319}}, [[../Passus 18#vs12418|12418]]{{anchor|notevs12418}}, [[../Passus 18#vs12420|12420]]{{anchor|notevs12420}}. ''Mercy and Truthe, ... Pees ... Rightwisnesse.'' Lydgate seems to have had this passage in his mind, when he described the four sisters in the following lines at the commencement of one of his poems (MS. Harl. 2255, fol. 21){{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Mercy and Trouthe mette on an hih mounteyn
Briht as the sonne with his beemys cleer,
Pees and Justicia walkyng on the pleyn,
And with foure sustryn, moost goodly of ther cheer,
List nat departe nor severe in no maneer,
Of oon accoord by vertuous encrees,
Joyned in charité, pryncessis moost enteer,
Mercy and Trouthe, Rihtwisnesse and Pees.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 18#vs12361|12361]]{{anchor|notevs12361}}. ''a tale of Waltrot.'' This name, like [[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Merchant#1424|Wade in Chaucer]], appears to have been that of a hero of romances and tales, or a personage belonging to the popular superstitions. Perhaps it may be connected with the old German ''Waltschrat'' (''satyrus'', ''pilosus''). See Grimm, Deutsche Mythologie, p. 270.

[[../Passus 18#vs12438|12438]]{{anchor|notevs12438}}. Psal. xxix, 6 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12566|12566]]{{anchor|notevs12566}}. Matth. xiv, 28 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12599|12599]]{{anchor|notevs12599}}. ''a spirit speketh to helle.'' The picture of the &quot;Harrowing of Hell,&quot; which here fol, bears a striking resemblance to the analogous scene in the old Mysteries, particularly in that edited by Mr. Halliwell under this title, 8vo, 1840. Compare the play on the same subject in the Towneley Mysteries, p. 244.

[[../Passus 18#vs12601|12601]]{{anchor|notevs12601}}. Psal. xxiii, 7 , 9.

[[../Passus 18#vs12645|12645]]{{anchor|notevs12645}}, [[../Passus 18#vs12669|12669]]{{anchor|notevs12669}}, [[../Passus 18#vs12676|12676]]{{anchor|notevs12676}}. ''sevene hundred wynter ... thritty wynter ... two and thritty wynter.'' Our Anglo-Saxon forefathers always counted duration of time by ''winters'' and ''nights''; for so many years, they said so many winters, and so many nights for so many days. This form continued long in popular usage, and still remains in our words ''fortnight'' and ''se'nnight''.

[[../Passus 18#vs12663|12663]]{{anchor|notevs12663}}. ''Gobelyn.'' Goblin is a name still applied to a devil. It belongs properly to a being of the old Teutonic popular mythology, a hob-goblin, the &quot;lubber-fiend&quot; of the poet, and seems to be identical with the German ''kobold''. (See Grimm, Deutsche Mythologie, p. 286.) ''Gobelin'' occurs as the name of one of the shepherds in the Mystery of the Nativity, printed by M. Jubinal in his Mystères inédits, vol. ii, p. 71. It occurs as the name of a devil in a song of the commencement of the fourteenth century, Political Songs, p. 238{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Sathanas huere syre
{{gap|0.7em}}Seyde on is sawe,
Gobelyn made is gerner
{{gap|0.7em}}Of gromene mawe.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 18#vs12679|12679]]{{anchor|notevs12679}}. ''to warne Pilates wif.'' This is an allusion to a popular legend prevalent at this time that the devil wished to hinder Christ's crucifixion, and that he appeared to Pilate's wife in a dream, and caused her to beseech her husband not to condemn the Saviour. It was founded on the passage in Matthew xxvii, 19. Sedente autem illo pro tribunali, misit ad eum uxor ejus, dicens: Nihil tibi et justo illi: multa enim passa sum hodie per visum propter eum. The most complete illustration of the passage of Piers Ploughman will be found in Halliwell's Coventry Mysteries, p. 308, &quot;Pilate's Wife's Dream.&quot;

[[../Passus 18#vs12691|12691]]{{anchor|notevs12691}}. ''And now I se wher a soule | Cometh hiderward seillynge, | With glorie, &amp;c.'' With this beautiful passage may be compared a very similar one in the Samson Agonistes of Milton{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
But who is this, what thing of sea or land?
Female of sex it seems,
That so bedeck'd, ornate and gay,
''Comes this way sailing''
Like a stately ship
Of Tarsus, bound for th' isles
Of Javan or Gadire,
With all her bravery on, and tackle trim.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 18#vs12753|12753]]{{anchor|notevs12753}}. ''y-lik a lusard.'' In the illuminations of manuscripts representing the scene of the temptation, the serpent is often figured with legs like a lizard or crocodile, and a human face.

[[../Passus 18#vs12759|12759]]{{anchor|notevs12759}}. Matth. v, 38 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12781|12781]]{{anchor|notevs12781}}. Matth. v, 17 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12801|12801]]{{anchor|notevs12801}}. ''thorugh a tree.'' Some of the medieval legends go still farther, and pretended that the tree from which the wood of the cross was made was descended directly from a plant from the tree in Paradise of which Adam and Eve were tempted to eat the fruit.

[[../Passus 18#vs12805|12805]]{{anchor|notevs12805}}. Psal. vii, 16 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12840|12840]]{{anchor|notevs12840}}. Psal. l, 6 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12876|12876]]{{anchor|notevs12876}}. 2 Corinth. xii, 4 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12886|12886]]{{anchor|notevs12886}}. Psal. cxlii, 2 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12896|12896]]{{anchor|notevs12896}}. ''Astroth.'' This name, as given to one of the devils, occurs in a curious list of actors in the Miracle Play of St. Martin, given by M. Jubinal, in the preface to his Mystères inédits, vol. ii, p. ix. It is similarly used in the Miracle Play of the Martyrdom of St. Peter and St. Paul, Jubinal, ib. vol. i, p. 69. In one of the Towneley Mysteries (p. 246), this name is likewise given to one of the devils{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Calle up ''Astarot'' and Anaballe,
To gyf us counselle in this case.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 18#vs12937|12937]]{{anchor|notevs12937}}. Psal. lxxxiv, 11 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12943|12943]]{{anchor|notevs12943}}. Psal. cxxxii, 1 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13222|13222]]{{anchor|notevs13222}}. 1 Sam. xviii, 7 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13274|13274]]{{anchor|notevs13274}}. Luke xxiv, 46 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13317|13317]]{{anchor|notevs13317}}. John xx, 29 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13375|13375]]{{anchor|notevs13375}}. ''Veni creator spiritus.'' The first line of the hymn at vespers, on the feast of Pentecost.

[[../Passus 19#vs13412|13412]]{{anchor|notevs13412}}. 1 Corinth. xii, 4 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13550|13550]]{{anchor|notevs13550}}. Cato, Distich. 14, lib. ii{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Esto forti animo cum sis damnatus inique;
Nemo diu gaudet qui judice vincit iniquo.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 19#vs13789|13789]]{{anchor|notevs13789}}. ''I knew nevere cardynal.'' The contributions levied upon the clergy for the support of the pope's messengers and agents was a frequent subject of complaint in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries.

[[../Passus 19#vs13807|13807]]{{anchor|notevs13807}}. ''At Avynone among the Jewes.'' In the middle ages there was a large congregation of Jews at Avignon, as in most of the principal cities in the south of France. In the civil dissensions which disturbed Italy during this century, the pope was frequently obliged to take shelter at Avignon and other places within the French territory.

[[../Passus 19#vs13825|13825]]{{anchor|notevs13825}}. Matth. v, 45 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13855|13855]]{{anchor|notevs13855}}. Rom. xii, 19 ; Hebr. x, 30 .

[[../Passus 20#vs14142|14142]]{{anchor|notevs14142}}. ''Kynde cessede.'' The lines which follow contain an allusion to the dissipation of manners which followed the pestilence.

[[../Passus 20#vs14191|14191]]{{anchor|notevs14191}}, [[../Passus 20#vs14196|14196]]{{anchor|notevs14196}}. ''Westmynstre Halle ... the Arches.'' The law courts have been held at Westminster from the earliest Anglo-Norman times, it being the king's chief palace. The court of the arches was a very ancient consistory court of the archbishop of Canterbury, held at Bow church in London, which was called St. Mary de Arcubus or St. Mary le Bow, from the circumstance of its having been built on arches.

[[../Passus 20#vs14211|14211]]{{anchor|notevs14211}}. ''leet daggen hise clothes.'' An account of the mode in which the rich fashionable robes of the dandies of the fourteenth century were dagged, or cut in slits at the edges and borders, will be found in any work on costume: it is frequently represented in the contemporary illuminations in manuscripts. Chaucer, in the &quot;[[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Parson#s27|Persones Tale]],&quot; when treating of pride and of the &quot;superfluitee of clothing,&quot; speaks of &quot;the costlewe furring in hir gounes, so moche pounsoning of chesel to maken holes, so moche ''dagging of sheres'',&quot; &amp;c. And again, &quot;if so be that they wolden yeve swiche pounsoned and ''dagged'' clothing to the povre peple, it is not convenient to were for hir estate,&quot; &amp;c. In the Alliterative Poem on the Deposition of Richard II (printed for the Camden Society), p. 21, the clergy is blamed for not preaching against the new fashions in dress{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
For wolde they blame the burnes
That broughte newe gysis,
And dryve out ''the dagges''
And alle the Duche cotis.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Whitaker gives the following singular explanation of this passage:—&quot;''Let dagge hus clothes'', probably, let them fall to the ground, or divested himself of them; for warriors are 'succinct' for battle as well as 'for speed!'&quot;

[[../Passus 20#vs14269|14269]]{{anchor|notevs14269}}. ''A glazene howve.'' I suppose this means that, in return for his gold, Physic gave him a hood of glass, ''i. e.'' a very frail protection for his person.

[[../Passus 20#vs14367|14367]]{{anchor|notevs14367}}. ''of the Marche of Walys.'' Whitaker's text reads, ''of the Marche of Yrelonde''. The clergy of the Welsh border appear, from allusions in other works, to have been proverbial for their ignorance and irregularity of life.

[[../Passus 20#vs14438|14438]]{{anchor|notevs14438}}. Psal. cxlvi, 4 .

[[../Passus 20#vs14444|14444]]{{anchor|notevs14444}}. ''wage menne to werre.'' This is a curious account of the composition of an army in the fourteenth century.

[[../Passus 20#vs14482|14482]]{{anchor|notevs14482}}. Exod. xx, 17 .

[[../Passus 20#vs14511|14511]]{{anchor|notevs14511}}. ''suffre the dede in dette'', ''i. e.'', The friars persuade people to leave to them, under pretence of saving their souls, the property which was due to their creditors, and thus, after their death, their debts remain unpaid.

[[../Passus 20#vs14615|14615]]{{anchor|notevs14615}}, [[../Passus 20#vs14617|14617]]{{anchor|notevs14617}}. ''this lymytour ... he salvede so oure wommen.'' The whole of this passage, taken with what precedes, is an amusing satire upon the limitour. Compare the description of the limitour given by Chaucer in the Canterbury Tales, [[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Prologue#208|ll. 208-271]], who alludes to his kindness for the women. The limitour was a friar licensed to visit and beg within certain limits. His pertinacity and inquisitiveness in visiting, alluded to in the name given him in Piers Ploughman (Sir Penetrans-domos), is admirably satirized by Chaucer, in the opening of the &quot;[[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Wife of Bath#857|Wif of Bathes Tale]]:&quot;—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
In olde dayes of the kyng Arthour,
Of which that Britouns speken gret honour,
Al was this lond fulfilled of fayrie;
The elf-queen, with hir joly compaignye,
Daunced ful oft in many a grene mede.
This was the old oppynyoun, as I rede
I speke of many hundrid yer ago;
But now can no man see noon elves mo.
For now the grete charité and prayeres
Of lymytours and other holy freres,
That sechen every lond and every streem,
As thik as motis in the sonne-beem,
Blesynge halles, chambres, kichenes, and boures,
Citees and burghes, castels hihe, and toures,
Thropes and bernes, shepnes and dayeries,
This makith that ther ben no fayeries:
For ther as wont was to walken an elf,
Ther walkith noon but the lymytour himself,
In undermeles and in morwenynges,
And saith his matyns and his holy thinges,
As he goth in his lymytacioun.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


{{c|———}}

{{c|NOTES TO THE CREED.}}

[[../Creed#cr65|65]]{{anchor|notecr65}}. ''a Minoure.'' These were the Gray or Franciscan Friars, founded at the beginning of the thirteenth century by St. Francis of Assise. They are supposed to have come to England in 1224, when they settled, first at Canterbury, and afterwards at London.

[[../Creed#cr75|75]]{{anchor|notecr75}}. ''a Carm.'' [[../Creed#cr95|95]]{{anchor|notecr95}}. ''Maries men.'' The Carmelites, or White Friars, pretended to be of great antiquity, and were originally established at Mount Carmel, from whence they were driven by the Saracens about the year 1238. They were brought into England in 1244, and settled first at Alnwick in Northumberland, and at Ailesford in Kent.

About the date (or a little before) of our poem, the Carmelites appear to have been very active in asserting in a boasting manner the superiority of their order over the others. An anecdote told by Fuller (History of Cambridge, p. 113), under the year 1371, affords a curious illustration. &quot;John Stokes, a Dominican, born at Sudbury, in Suffolk, but studying in Cambridge, as champion of his order, fell foul on the Carmelites, chiefly for calling themselves 'The brothers of the Blessed Virgin,' and then by consequence all knew whose uncle they pretend themselves. He put them to prove their pedigree by Scripture, how the kindred came in. In brief, Bale saith, 'he left red notes in the white coats of the Carmelites,' he so belaboured them with his lashing language. But John Hornby a Carmelite (born at Boston in Lincolnshire) undertook him, called by Bale Cornutus, by others Hornet-bee, so stinging his stile. He proved the brothership of his order to the Virgin Mary by visions, allowed true by the infallible popes, so that no good Christian durst deny it.&quot;

[[../Creed#cr130|130]]{{anchor|notecr130}}. ''Freres of the Pye.'' The Fratres de Pica, or Friars of the Pye, are said to have received their name from the circumstance of their wearing their outer garment black and white like a magpie. Very little is known of their history. They are said to have had but one house in England.

[[../Creed#cr143|143]]{{anchor|notecr143}}. ''Robartes men.'' See before the notes on the Vision, [[#notevs88|ll. 88]] and [[#notevs3410|ll. 3410]].

[[../Creed#cr155|155]]{{anchor|notecr155}}. ''miracles of mydwyves.'' The monks had many relics and superstitious practices to preserve and aid women in childbirth. One of the commissioners for the suppression of the monasteries mentions among the relics of a house he had visited, &quot;Mare Magdalens girdell, and yt is wrappyde and coveride with white, sent also with gret reverence to women traveling:&quot; he had previously spoken of &quot;oure Lades gyrdell of Bruton, rede silke, wiche is a solemne reliquie sent to women travelyng wiche shall not miscarie ''in partu''.&quot; (MS. Cotton. Cleop. E. iv, fol. 249.) See the account of a gem, which had a similar virtue, in Matthew Paris's History of the Abbots of St. Albans.

[[../Creed#cr305|305]]{{anchor|notecr305}}. ''the Prechoures.'' The Black Friars, or Dominicans, were founded by St. Dominic, a Spanish monk of the end of the eleventh century. They were called Friars Preachers, because their chief duty was to preach and convert heretics. They came into England in 1221, and had their first houses in Oxford.

[[../Creed#cr327|327]]{{anchor|notecr327}}. ''posternes in privité.'' These private posterns are frequently alluded to in the reports of the Commissioners for the Dissolution of the Monasteries in the reign of Henry VIII. One of them, speaking of the abbey of Langden, says, &quot;Wheras immediatly descendying fro my horse, I sent Bartlett your servant, with all my servantes to circumcept the abbay and surely to kepe ''all bake dorres and startyng hoilles'', and I myself went alone to the abbottes logeying joyning upon the feldes and wode, ''evyn lyke a cony clapper full of startyng hoilles''.&quot; (MS. Cotton. Cleop. E. iv, fol. 127.) Another commissioner (MS. Cotton. Cleop. E. iv, fol. 35), in a letter concerning the monks of the Charter-house in London, says, &quot;These charterhowse monkes wolde be callyde solytary, but to the cloyster dore ther be above xxiiij. keys in the handes of xxiiij. persons, and hit is lyke my letters, unprofytable tayles and tydinges and sumtyme perverse concell commythe and goythe by reason therof. Allso to the buttrey dore ther be xij. sundrye keys in xij. [mens] handes wherin symythe to be small husbandrye.&quot;

[[../Creed#cr351|351]]{{anchor|notecr351}}. ''merkes of merchauntes.'' Their ciphers or badges painted in the windows. For examples, see the note in Warton's History of English Poetry, vol. ii, p. 98, last edition.

[[../Creed#cr481|481]]{{anchor|notecr481}}. ''euelles.'' Perhaps for ''evel-les'', ''i. e.'' without evil.

[[../Creed#cr534|534]]{{anchor|notecr534}}. ''the Austyns.'' The Austin Friars, or Friars Eremites of the order of St. Augustine, came into England about the year 1250. Before the end of the fourteenth century they possessed a great number of houses in this island.

[[../Creed#cr566|566]]{{anchor|notecr566}}. ''the foure ordres.'' The four principal orders of Mendicant Friars. See [[#notevs116|note]] on the Vision, l. 116.

[[../Creed#cr721|721]]{{anchor|notecr721}}. ''harkne at Herdforthe.'' This appears to be an allusion to some event which had recently occurred among the Franciscans at Hertford, or at Hereford: if the latter, perhaps they had been active in the persecution of Walter Brut. [[#notecr1309|See below]], l. 1309.

[[../Creed#cr745|745]]{{anchor|notecr745}}. ''than ther lefte in Lucifere.'' Than there existed in Lucifer, before his fall. See before, the [[#notevs681|note]] on l. 681 of the Vision.

[[../Creed#cr771|771]]{{anchor|notecr771}}. ''couuen''. Probably an error of the old printed edition for ''connen''.

[[../Creed#cr869|869]]{{anchor|notecr869}}. ''lath.'' Perhaps an error of the printer of the first edition for ''lay''.

[[../Creed#cr911|911]]{{anchor|notecr911}}. Matth. vii, 15 .

[[../Creed#cr913|913]]{{anchor|notecr913}}. ''werwolves.'' People who had the power of turning themselves into, or were turned into, wolves. This fearful superstition, which is very ancient, was extremely prevalent in the middle ages. In French they were called ''Loup-garous''. The history of a personage of this kind forms the subject of the Lai de Bisclaveret, by Marie de France. Sir Frederick Madden has published a very remarkable Early-English metrical romance on the subject of &quot;William and the Werwolf.&quot; See on this superstition Grimm's Deutsche Mythologie, pp. 620-622.

[[../Creed#cr954|954]]{{anchor|notecr954}}. ''Golias.'' There is perhaps here an allusion to the famous satire on the Monkish orders entitled Apocalypsis Goliæ, printed among the poems of Walter Mapes.

[[../Creed#cr967|967]]{{anchor|notecr967}}. ''the kynrede of Caym.'' In the popular belief of the middle ages, hob-goblins and evil spirits (which haunted the wilds and the waters) literally, and bad men figuratively, were represented as being descended from the first murderer, Cain. In Old-English poetry, ''Caymes kyn'' is a common epithet for very wicked people. In the Anglo-Saxon romance of Beowulf, the Grendel is said to be of &quot;Cain's kin.&quot;

[[../Creed#cr1051|1051]]{{anchor|notecr1051}}. ''wytnes on Wyclif.'' In the persecutions to which Wycliffe was subjected for his opinions in 1382, his most violent opponents were the Mendicants. He died in 1384, quietly at his living of Lutterworth.

[[../Creed#cr1189|1189]]{{anchor|notecr1189}}. ''a lymytoure.'' See before, the [[#notevs14615|note]] on l. 14615 of the Vision.

[[../Creed#cr1178|1178]]{{anchor|notecr1178}}. ''stumlen in tales.'' An allusion to the idle and superstitious tales with which the monks filled their sermons, in place of simple and sound doctrine.

[[../Creed#cr1309|1309]]{{anchor|notecr1309}}. ''Water Brut.'' Walter Brut (or Bright) was a native of Herefordshire, and was prosecuted by the Bishop of Hereford for heresy in 1393. A long account of his defence will be found in Foxe's Acts and Monuments.

[[../Creed#cr1401|1401]]{{anchor|notecr1401}}. ''Hildegare.'' I suppose this refers to St. Hildegardis, a nun who flourished in the middle of the twelfth century, and who was celebrated among the Roman Catholics as a prophetess. Her prophecies are not uncommon in manuscripts, and they have been printed. Those which relate to the future corruptions in the monkish orders are given in Foxe's Acts and Monuments, book vi, and in other works.

[[Image:Piers Ploughman Decoration 11.png|center|180px|]]</text>
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 | title       = [[../|The Vision and Creed of Piers Ploughman]]
 | author      = William Langland
 | override_editor = [[Author:Thomas Wright (1810-1877)|Thomas Wright]]
 | translator  = 
 | previous    = [[../Creed/|The Creed]]
 | section     = Notes
 | next        = [[../Glossary/]]
 | year        = 
 | notes       = 
 | edition     = 
}}
[[Image:Piers Ploughman Decoration 01.png|center|250px|]]

{{c|{{xx-larger|NOTES AND GLOSSARY}}}}

[[Image:Piers Ploughman Decoration 01.png|center|250px|]]

{{rule|10em}}

[[Image:Piers Ploughman Decoration 04.png|center|420px|]]

{{c|{{xx-larger|NOTES.}}}}

Line [[../Introduction#vs1|1]]{{anchor|notevs1}}. Bale, quoting the first two lines, translates them ''In æstivo tempore, cum sol caleret''. The printers of the early editions altered ''softe'' to ''set''.

[[../Introduction#vs4|4]]{{anchor|notevs4}}, [[../Introduction#vs5|5]]{{anchor|notevs5}}. ''shroudes ... sheep''. The other text of this poem reads ''Yshop into shrobbis | as y shepherde were''. See the Introduction.

[[../Introduction#vs28|28]]{{anchor|notevs28}}. The text represented in Whitaker's edition here differs much from the other. Our dreamer is there introduced very unadvisedly telling us of this tower, 'truthe was therynne,' a piece of information which he only learns afterwards from dame 'Holy Churche:'

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ich was aferd of hure face,
Thauh hue faire were,
And saide, mercy, madame,
Wat may this be to mene,
''The tour upon toft'', quath hue,
Treuthe ys therynne.
{{gap|5.25em}}(Passus Secundus, ed. Whit.)
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Where there is an evident reference to the &quot;tour on a toft,&quot; which has been previously mentioned in the more correct text.

[[../Introduction#vs43|43]]{{anchor|notevs43}}, [[../Introduction#vs44|44]]{{anchor|notevs44}}. Dr. Whitaker, misunderstanding this passage, has printed 'ther' for 'that,' which is in all the MSS. In his gloss, he interprets 'wonnen' by 'to dwell;' and he paraphrases the sentence, 'some destroying themselves by gluttony and excess,' translating it, I suppose, &quot;And there dwell wasters whom gluttony destroyeth.&quot; The meaning is, the ploughmen worked hard, &quot;and obtained (wan) that which wasters destroy with their gluttony.&quot; The writer of the second Trin. Coll. MS. seems to have understood the meaning of the passage, but not the words, and has 'whom that thise wastours.'

[[../Introduction#vs68|68]]{{anchor|notevs68}}. I have here to preserve the alliteration, adopted 'giltles,' from the second Trin. Coll. MS., and one of the printed editions, in place of 'synneles,' which the other MS. has. Though we find instances of irregularity in the sub-letters (or alliterative letters in the first line) in Pierce Plowman, the chief letter is not so often neglected. In Whitaker's text the account of the minstrels is very confused. Here the minstrels get gold by their song without sin, but the japers and janglers are condemned as getting their living by what is afterwards called 'turpiloquium,' when they had ability to get it in an honester way.

[[../Introduction#vs88|88]]{{anchor|notevs88}}. ''Roberdes knaves.'' These are the same class of malefactors who are named ''Roberdesmen'' in the Statutes, 5 Ed. III. c. 14. &quot;Et diverses roberies, homicides, et felonies ont esté faitz eintz ces heures par gentz qui sont appellez Roberdesmen, Wastours, et Draghelatche, si est acordé et establi que si homme eit suspecion de mal de nuls tielx, soit-il de jour soit-il de nuyt, que meintenant soient arestus par les conestables des villes.&quot; This law was confirmed by 7 Ric. II. c. 5, where the word is again introduced. Whitaker supposes, without any reason, the 'Roberdes knaves' to be Robin Hood's men. The other Trin. Coll. MS. reads ''Robertis knaves''.

[[../Introduction#vs93|93]]{{anchor|notevs93}}. ''Seint Jame.'' St. James of Compostello was a famous resort of pilgrims in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. An amusing song on the inconveniences which attended the voyage is printed in the Reliquiæ Antiquæ, vol. i, p. 2.

[[../Introduction#vs107|107]]{{anchor|notevs107}}. ''Walsyngham.'' The shrine of the Virgin Mary at Walsingham in Norfolk, also enjoyed an extraordinary celebrity, as a resort of English pilgrims. It appears that the first complaints of the Wicliffite reformers were strongly expressed against this pilgrimage. &quot;Lolardi sequaces Johannis Wiclif ... prædicaverunt peregrinationes non debere fieri, et præcipue apud Walsingham,&quot; etc. Th. Walsingh. p. 340.

[[../Introduction#vs116|116]]{{anchor|notevs116}}. The four orders of friars were, of course, the Franciscans, Augustines, Dominicans, and Carmelites.

[[../Introduction#vs131|131]]{{anchor|notevs131}}. These four lines stand thus in Whitaker's text, ''Bote holy churche and charité | choppe a-doun swich shryvers, | the moste myschif of molde | mounteth up faste.'' Whitaker has translated it quite wrong, &quot;May true charity and church discipline knock down these, the greatest pests on earth, who are rapidly increasing!&quot; The simple meaning of the passage, as given by Whitaker, is, &quot;Unless holy church and charity chop down such shrivers (confessors), the greatest mischief of the world is increasing fast.&quot; The present text affords a better and equally clear meaning, &quot;Unless holy church and they hold better together, the greatest mischief in the world is increasing, or gaining ground very fast.&quot;

[[../Introduction#vs141|141]]{{anchor|notevs141}}. ''of falshede of fastynge'', the comma has slipped in by accident. The meaning is &quot;of breaking fast-days.&quot;

[[../Introduction#vs147|147]]{{anchor|notevs147}}. ''He bunchith hem'', MS. Trin. 2.

[[../Introduction#vs168|168]]{{anchor|notevs168}}. ''the pestilence tyme.'' See further on, the [[#notevs2497|note]] on l. 2497. The great plague of 1349 and 1350 had carried off so much people, that hands were wanting to cultivate the lands in many parishes, and the distress which followed, with the failure of tithes which naturally accompanied it, drove the parsons to plead poverty as an excuse for going to London and seeking other occupations.

[[../Introduction#vs192|192]]{{anchor|notevs192}}. Whitaker's text inserts the following passage between this line and the one following{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Conscience cam and acusede hem,
And the commune herde hit,
And seide, &quot;Ydolatrie ye soffren
In sondrye places menye,
And boxes ben y-set forth
Bounden with yren,
To undertake the tool
Of untrewe sacrifice,
In menynge of miracles
Muche wex hongeth there,
Al the worldle wot wel
Hit myghte nat be trywe.
Ac for it profitith yow to pors-warde,
Ye prelates soffren
That lewede men in mysbylyve
Leven and deien.
Ich lyve wel, by oure Lorde!
For love of youre covetyse,
That al the worlde be the wors;
As holy wryght telleth
What cheste and meschaunce
To children of Israel
Ful on hem that free were,
Thorwe two false preestes.
For the synne of Ophni
And of Finees hus brother,
Thei were disconfit in bataille,
And losten ''Archa Dei'',
And fore hure syre sauh hem syngen,
And aoffred hem don ylle,
And noght chasted hem therof,
And wolde noght rebukie hem,
Anon as it was y-told hyme
That the children of Israel
Weren disconfit in bataille,
And ''Archa Dei'' y-lore,
And hus sones slayen,
Anon he ful for sorwe
Fro hus chaire thare he sat,
And brak hus necke a-tweyne;
And al was for venjaunce
That he but noght hus children.
And for they were preestes,
And men of holy churche,
God was well wrother,
And toke the rather venjaunce.
For-thei ich seye, ye preestes,
And men of holy churche,
That soffren men do sacrifice
And worsheppen mawmettes,
And ye sholde be here fadres,
And techen hem betere;
God shal take venjaunce
In alle swiche preestes
Wel harder and grettere,
On suche shrewede faderes,
Than ever he dude on Ophni
And Finees, or in here fadere.
For youre shrewede suffraunce,
And youre owen synne,
Youre masse and youre matynes,
And meny of youre houres, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Introduction#vs225|225]]{{anchor|notevs225}}. This is the constitutional principle which was universally acknowledged by our early political writers, and of which some strong declarations will be found in my &quot;Political Songs&quot; (published by the Camden Society). The doctrine of &quot;right divine&quot; was certainly not a prevalent one in the middle ages.

[[../Introduction#vs291|291]]{{anchor|notevs291}}. This fable appears to be of middle-age formation, for it is not found in any of the ancient collections. It does not occur in the fables of Marie. It is however found in the old collection, in French verse of the fourteenth century, entitled Ysopet; and M. Robert has also printed a Latin metrical version of the story from a MS. of the same century. La Fontaine has given it among his fables. It may be observed that the fable is nowhere so well told as in Piers Ploughman. (See Robert, Fables Inédites, des xii{{sup|e}}, xiii{{sup|e}}, et xiv{{sup|e}} siècles, i, pp. 98-101.) The readers of Scottish history will remember the application of this fable in 1481, by the earl of Angus (popularly named, from this circumstance, Archibald Bell-the-cat), in the conspiracy against the royal favourites, which forms an excellent illustration of our text.

[[../Introduction#vs381|381]]{{anchor|notevs381}}. ''Væ terræ, etc.'' Ecclesiastes, x, 16. &quot;Væ tibi, terra, cujus rex puer est, et cujus principes mane comedunt.&quot;

[[../Introduction#vs423|423]]{{anchor|notevs423}}. ''and pointeth the lawe.'' MS. Trin. 2.

[[../Introduction#vs429|429]]{{anchor|notevs429}}. after this line the following are inserted in the second MS. of Trin. Coll.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
I saugh bisshopis bolde,
And bacheleris of devyn,
Become clerkis of acountis
The king for to serve,
Archideknes and denis,
That dignités haven,
To preche the peple
And pore men to fede,
Ben y-lope to Lundone
Be leve of hire bisshop,
And ben clerkis of the kinges bench
The cuntré to shende.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Introduction#vs438|438]]{{anchor|notevs438}}. ''Taillours, tanneris, | And tokkeris bothe.'' MS. Trin. 2.

[[../Introduction#vs453|453]]{{anchor|notevs453}}. The Cottonian MS. Vespas. B. xvi, from which Price has given a long extract in his edition of Warton, has here &quot;With wyne of Oseye | and wyn of Gascoyne.&quot; Whitaker's reading is &quot;Whit wyn of Oseye and of Gascoyne.&quot; Price observes, in a note, &quot;good wyne of Gaskyne, and the wyne of Osee [is the reading of MS. Harl. No. 875].—The same hand already noticed has corrected ''wyn'' to ''weyte'' (wheat) ''of Gascoyne'';—an obvious improvement.&quot; I by no means partake in this opinion: ''wine'' of Gascony, and ''not wheat'' of Gascony, is perpetually alluded to in the literature of France and England from the twelfth to the sixteenth century. The reading of the text now printed is evidently the original one, which has been corrupted in the others: the wine more particularly known as Gascon, was a red wine. The writer of &quot;La Desputoison du Vin et de l'Iaue,&quot; says of it—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Vin de Gascoigne, sa coulour
N'est pas de petite valour;
Les autres vins fet honnorer.
Quant de soi les veult coulourer:
Force donne, aide, et confort,
Et d'un vin foible, fet. i. fort.
Il a de vin plaine sustance;
Il nourrist sans faire grevance:
Aus testes est bons et au flanc.
Et du rouge y a et du blanc.
(''Jubinal, Nouveau Recueil de Contes, &amp;c.'', i. 399.)
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The 'wyn of the Rochel' (vin de la Rochelle) was also a favourite wine.—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Rochelle, qui tant a de pris,
Que l'en la va de partout querre;
Chascun si l'enclot et l'enserre,
Car il n'est pas à garçonner,
N'en ne la doit q'aus bons donner;—
Por les grans seignors l'en salache.
{{gap|9.8em}}(''ib.'' p. 300).
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The &quot;wyn of Oseye&quot; (vin d'Osaie) was a foreign wine, very rare and dear, and sought up by 'gourmands:' it is mentioned with those of Malvoisia, Rosetta, and Muscadet. (Depping Réglemens sur les Arts et Métiers de Paris, p. lxiii.) It is unnecessary to explain what was 'wyn of the Ryn' (Rhine).

[[../Introduction#vs456|456]]{{anchor|notevs456}}. ''of the Reule | and of the Rochel.'' Whitaker.

[[../Introduction#vs458|458]]{{anchor|notevs458}}. These two lines, omitted in the MS. from which our text is printed, have been added from MS. Trin. 2.

[[../Passus 1#vs489|489]]{{anchor|notevs489}}. ''fyve wittes.'' The five wits were equivalent to the five ''senses''. One of the characters in the early interlude of The Four Elements, a production of the earlier part of the sixteenth century, says{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
I am callyd Sensuall Apetyte,
All craturs in me delyte;
I comforte the ''wyttys fyve'',
The tastyng, smellyng, and herynge,
I refresh the syght and felynge,
To all creaturs alyve.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Stephen Hawes, in his Pastime of Pleasure (chap. xxiv), belonging to this same age, refines upon this notion, and talks of five &quot;internall wittes,&quot; answering to the five external wits, or to those which were commonly understood by that name.

[[../Passus 1#vs522|522]]{{anchor|notevs522}}. Genesis xix, 32 . It is very singular that this story of Lot and his daughters was the favourite example of the medieval preachers against drunkenness.

[[../Passus 1#vs563|563]]{{anchor|notevs563}}. Luke xx, 25 .

[[../Passus 1#vs595|595]]{{anchor|notevs595}}. ''on an eller.'' It was the prevailing belief during the middle ages, that the tree on which Judas hanged himself was an elder. Maundevile tells us that this tree was still in existence, when he visited Jerusalem. &quot;Also streghte from Natatorie Siloe is an ymage of ston and of olde auncyen werk, that Absalon leet make; and because thereof, men clepen it the hond of Absalon. And faste by is yit the ''tree of eldre'' that Judas henge himself upon for despeyr that he hadde, whan he solde and betrayed oure Lord.&quot; The same notion continued to exist in the age of Shakespeare, and is alluded to by Shakespeare himself, Ben Jonson, and others.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
''Hol.'' What mean you, sir?

''Boyet.'' To make Judas hang himself.

''Hol.'' Begin, sir; you are ''my elder''.

''Biron.'' Well followed: ''Judas was hang'd on an elder.''

{{gap|15.4em}}''Love's Labours Lost'', v, 2.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 1#vs681|681]]{{anchor|notevs681}}. ''Lucifer with legions.'' The story of Lucifer's rebellion and fall was extremely popular in the middle ages, and particularly among the Anglo-Saxons, who, in the fine poem ascribed to Cædmon, had given it almost as much detail as Milton had done at a later date. This legend is related in prose in an Anglo-Saxon tract in MS. Cotton. Vespas. D. xiv, fol. 2.

[[../Passus 1#vs682|682]]{{anchor|notevs682}}. The second Trin. Col. MS. has, ''Leride it in hevene, | and as the lovelokest | to loke on, aftir oure Lord''.

[[../Passus 1#vs697|697]]{{anchor|notevs697}}-[[../Passus 1#vs704|704]]. Instead of these lines, we find the following in Whitaker's text:

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Lord, why wolde he tho,
Thulke wrechede Lucifer,
Lepen on a-lofte
In the northe syde,
To sitten in the sonne side
Ther the day roweth,
Ne were it for northerne men,
Anon ich wolde telle:
Ac ich wolle lacke no lyf,
Quath that lady sotthly.
'Hyt is sykerer by southe,
Ther the sonne regneth,
Than in the north, by meny notes,
No man loyne other.
For theder as the fend flegh,
Hus fote for to sette,
Ther he failede and fuel,
And hus felawes alle.
And helle is ther he is,
And he ther y-bounde,
Evene contrarie suteth Criste,
Cierkus knowen the sothe,
''Dixit Dominus Domino meo, sede a dextris meis.''

{{gap|0.7em}}'Ac of this matere
No more mene ich nelle,
He was in the halyday
After heten wayten,
They care noght thauh it be cold
Knaves wen thei worchen.'
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Whitaker has translated the last four lines of the foregoing extract thus, &quot;Excepting that hyndes on the holyday look out for warm places, but knaves (servants) when working hard, are indifferent to cold.&quot;

[[../Passus 1#vs695|695]]{{anchor|notevs695}}. Isaiah xiv, 14 . The citation varies a little from the text of the printed vulgate.

[[../Passus 1#vs707|707]]{{anchor|notevs707}}. ''Somme in the eyr.'' The monks in the middle ages endeavoured to explain the existence of different classes of spirits and fairies, which the popular creed represented as harmless, or even beneficent creatures, by supposing that some of the angels who fell with Lucifer were less guilty than others, and were allowed to occupy the different elements on the earth instead of being condemned to &quot;the pit.&quot; In &quot;The Master of Oxford's Catechism,&quot; written early in the fifteenth century, and printed in the Reliquiæ Antiquæ, vol. i, p. 231, we have the following question and answer,—&quot;''C.'' Where be the anjelles that God put out of heven, and bycam devilles? ''M.'' Som into hell, and som reyned in the skye, and som in the erth, and som in waters and in wodys.&quot;

[[../Passus 1#vs815|815]]{{anchor|notevs815}}. Mark iv, 24 . In qua mensura mensi fueritis, remetietur vobis, et adjicietur vobis.

[[../Passus 1#vs835|835]]{{anchor|notevs835}}. Epist. Jac. ii, 17 . Sic et fides, si non habeat opera, mortua est in semetipsa.

[[../Passus 1#vs862|862]]{{anchor|notevs862}}. Luke vi, 38 .

[[../Passus 2#vs901|901]]{{anchor|notevs901}}. The second Trin. Col. MS. has—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Frettid with rynges,
Of the pureste perreighe
That prince werde evere,
In red scarlet robid
And ribande with gold.
Ther nis no quen queyntere
That quyk is o-lyve,
'What is this womman,' quod I.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 2#vs934|934]]{{anchor|notevs934}}. Matth. vii, 17 . ''bonus'' (for ''bona'') is the reading of the MS. Perhaps it was thought allowable to use the masculine thus before a fem. noun beginning with ''a'', for the sake of euphony, as the French still write ''mon amie'', instead of ''ma amie'', and the like. Whitaker's text has here—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
''Talis pater, talis filius.''
For shal never brere bere
Beries as a vyne,
No on crokyd kene thorne
Kynde fygys wexe.
''Bona arbor bonum fructum facit.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The lines which follow differ considerably in the two texts.

[[../Passus 2#vs958|958]]{{anchor|notevs958}}. Psalm xiv, 1 .

[[../Passus 2#vs991|991]]{{anchor|notevs991}}-[[../Passus 2#vs994|994]]. Instead of these lines, the following are substituted in the second Trin. Coll. MS.{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Sire Symonye is assent
To asele the chartres,
That Fals and Favel
Be any fyn halden,
And feffe Mede therwith
In mariage for evere.
Ther nas halle ne hous
To herberwe the peple,
That iche feld nas ful
Of folk al aboute.
In myddis a mounteyne
At myd-morewe tide
Was pight up a pavyloun
Proud for the nones,
And ten thousand of tentis
Teldit beside,
Of knightes of cuntrés,
Of comeres aboute,
For sisours, for somonours, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


And the rest, as far as line 1100, differs very much in the two MSS.

[[../Passus 2#vs1103|1103]]{{anchor|notevs1103}}. ''of Banneburies sokne, | Reynald the reve, | and the redyngkynges menye, | Munde the mylnere.'' Whit.

[[../Passus 2#vs1128|1128]]{{anchor|notevs1128}}. Luke x, 7 .

[[../Passus 2#vs1177|1177]]{{anchor|notevs1177}}. ''With floryns ynowe.'' Edward III had issued, not very long before the date of this poem, the first extensive English gold coinage, to which he gave the Italian name of florins, derived originally from that of the city of Florence.

[[../Passus 2#vs1204|1204]]{{anchor|notevs1204}}. ''to Westmynstre'': ''i. e.'' to the courts of law which were held there.

[[../Passus 3#vs1404|1404]]{{anchor|notevs1404}}. ''A moton of golde.'' A mutton (mouton) was a small French coin of gold, which bore the stamp of a lamb or sheep. See Ducange, v. ''Multo''.

[[../Passus 3#vs1501|1501]]{{anchor|notevs1501}}. Matth. vi, 3 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1523|1523]]{{anchor|notevs1523}}. Regrating, or the buying up of provisions and other things to make extravagant profits by retailing them, was one of the great sources of oppression of the poor by the rich in the middle ages, and was a constant subject of popular complaint.

[[../Passus 3#vs1529|1529]]{{anchor|notevs1529}}. Whitaker's text adds here,—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thei have no puteye of the puple
That parcel-mele mote biggen,
Thauh thei take hem untydy thyng,
Thei hold it no treson;
And thauh thei fulle nat ful,
That for lawe y-seelde,
He gripeth therfor as grete
As for the grete treuthe.

{{gap|0.7em}}Meny sondry sorwes
In cyté fallen ofte,
Bothe thorw fyur and flod,
And al for false puple,
That bygylen good men,
And greveth hem wrongliche,
The wiche cryen on hure knees
That Christ hem avenge
Here on this erthe,
Other elles on helle,
That so bygyleth hem of here good,
And God on hem sendeth
Feveres, other fouler hyveles,
Other fur on here houses,
Moreyne, other meschaunce.
And menye tyme hit falleth,
That innocence ys y-herde
In hevene amonge seyntes,
That louten for hem to oure Lorde,
And to oure Lady bothe,
To granten gylours on erthe
Grace to amende,
And have here penaunce on pure erthe,
And noght in the pyne of helle.
And thenne falleth the fur
On false menne houses,
And good men for here gultes
Gloweth on fuyr after.
Al thys have we seyen,
That some tyme thorw a brewere
Many burgages y-brent,
And bodyes therynne,
And thorw a candel cloming
In a cursed place,
Fel a-don and for-brende
Forth al the rewe,
For-thy mayres that maken free-men,
Me thynken that thei ouhten
For to spure and aspye,
For eny speche of selver,
What manere mester
Of merchaundise he usede,
Er he were underfonge free
And felawe in youre rolles.
Hit ys nought semly, for soth,
In cyté ne in borw-ton,
That usurers other regratours
For eny kynne geftes,
Be fraunchised for a free-man,
And have fals name.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 3#vs1548|1548]]{{anchor|notevs1548}}. Job, xv, 34 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1611|1611]]{{anchor|notevs1611}}. ''Youre fader she felled.'' An allusion to the deposition and death of Edward II.

[[../Passus 3#vs1652|1652]]{{anchor|notevs1652}}. Provisors were people who obtained from the pope the reversion of ecclesiastical dignities, and several severe statutes were made against them, one well-known one by Edward III.

[[../Passus 3#vs1674|1674]]{{anchor|notevs1674}}. ''Love-daies.'' See further on, the [[#notevs5634|note]] on l. 5634.

[[../Passus 3#vs1735|1735]]{{anchor|notevs1735}}. ''In Normandie.'' [[../Passus 3#vs1750|1750]]{{anchor|notevs1750}}. ''To Caleis.'' Allusions, no doubt, to recent events in the wars of Edward III. See the Introduction.

[[../Passus 3#vs1769|1769]]{{anchor|notevs1769}}. ''Caytiflyche thow, Conscience, | Consailedist the kyng leten | In hus enemys honde | Ys heritage of Fraunce.'' Whit.

[[../Passus 3#vs1827|1827]]{{anchor|notevs1827}}. Psalm xiv, 1 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1835|1835]]{{anchor|notevs1835}}. Ps. xiv, 2 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1845|1845]]{{anchor|notevs1845}}. Ps. xiv, 5 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1862|1862]]{{anchor|notevs1862}}. Psalm xxv, 10 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1875|1875]]{{anchor|notevs1875}}. Matth. vi, 5 .

[[../Passus 3#vs1885|1885]]{{anchor|notevs1885}}. ''Regum.'' The reference is to 1 Sam. xv, which in the old Vulgate was called ''primus liber regum''.

[[../Passus 3#vs1985|1985]]{{anchor|notevs1985}}, [[../Passus 3#vs2019|2019]]{{anchor|notevs2019}}. Isaiah ii, 4 .

[[../Passus 3#vs2043|2043]]{{anchor|notevs2043}}. Prov. xxii, 9 . Victoriam et honorem acquiret qui dat munera; animam autem aufert accipientium.

[[../Passus 4#vs2099|2099]]{{anchor|notevs2099}}. ''lernest.'' Whitaker's text has ''ledest''.

[[../Passus 4#vs2149|2149]]{{anchor|notevs2149}}. Psalm xiii, 3 . The quotation which follows is from the same verse.

[[../Passus 4#vs2171|2171]]{{anchor|notevs2171}}. ''his sone.'' The Black Prince, who was a great favourite with the people.

[[../Passus 4#vs2175|2175]]{{anchor|notevs2175}}-[[../Passus 4#vs2186|2186]]. The variation in Whitaker's text deserves notice. This passage there stands as follows{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thenne cam Pees into parlement,
And putte up a bylle.
How that Wrong wilfullich
Hadde hus wif for-leyen;
And how he ravysed Rose,
The riche widewe, by nyghte;
And Margarete of here maidenhod,
As he met hure late.
'Both my goos, and my grys,
And my gras he taketh,
Ich dar nouht for is felaweshepe,
In faith!' Pees saide,
'Bere sickerlich eny selver
To seint Gyles doune;
He watteth ful wel,
Wan ich sulfere taketh,
Wat wey ich wende.
Wel yerne he aspieth,
To robbe me and to ryfle me,
Yf ich ride softe.
Yut he is bolde for to borwe,
And baldelich he payeth:
He borwede of me Bayarde,' etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 4#vs2177|2177]]{{anchor|notevs2177}}. ''How Wrong ayeins his wille.'' What follows is a true picture of the oppressions to which the peasantry were frequently subjected by the king's purveyors, and by others in power. See the Political Songs, pp. 377, 378; and Hartshorne's Ancient Metrical Tales, pp. 41, 42.

[[../Passus 4#vs2197|2197]]{{anchor|notevs2197}}. ''taillé'', a tally. See the Political Songs, as above quoted. Whitaker translates this passage, which stands thus in his edition,

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And taketh me bote a taile
For ten quarters other twelve,
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


by, &quot;and for ten or twelve quarters of it repaid me but ''a sheep's tail''!&quot;

[[../Passus 4#vs2298|2298]]{{anchor|notevs2298}}. ''in my stokkes.'' In my prison. Prisons were usually furnished with stocks, in which, instead of fetters, prisoners were set.

[[../Passus 4#vs2323|2323]]{{anchor|notevs2323}}. ''Beneyt.'' St. Benedict, the founder of the Benedictine order; St. Bernard, of the order of Cistercians; St. Francis, of the Franciscans.

[[../Passus 4#vs2335|2335]]{{anchor|notevs2335}}. ''Galis.'' Compostello in Galicia.

[[../Passus 5#vs2473|2473]]{{anchor|notevs2473}}. ''Passus Quintus.'' In Whitaker's text, this section, which is called ''Passus Sextus'', is prefaced by the following long exordium, intended as a satire against the mendicant friars{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thus ich awaked, God wot!
Wanne ich wonede on Cornhulle,
Kytte and ich in a cote,
Clothede as a lollere:
And a lytel ich let by,
Leyve me, for sothe,
Among lolleres of London,
And lewede heremytes.
For ich made of tho men,
As Reson me tauhte.
For as ich cam by Conscience,
Wit Reson ich mette,
In an hote hervest,
Wenne ich hadde myn hele,
And lymes to labore with,
And lovede wel fare,
And no dede to do
Bote drynke and to slepe,
In hele and in unité,
On me aposede,
Romynge in remembraunce.
Thus Reson me arated:
'Canstow serven,' he seide,
'Other syngen in a churche?
Other loke for my cokers?
Other to the carte picche?
Mowe, other mowen,
Other make bond to sheves?
Repe, other be a repe-reyve
And arise erliche?
Other have an horne and be hay-warde,
And liggen out a nyghtes,
And kepe my corn in my croft
From pykers and theeves?
Other shap shoon other clothes?
Other shep other kyne kepe?
Eggen, other harwen,
Other swyne other gees dryve?
Other eny kyne craft
That to the comune nudeth,
Hem that bed-reden be
Bylyve to fynde?'

{{gap|0.7em}}'Certes,' ich seyde,
'And so me God helpe!
Ich am to waik to worche
With sykel other with sythe;
And to long, leyf me,
Lowe for to stoupe,
To worchen as workeman
Eny wyle to dure.'
'Then havest thow londes to lyve by,'
Quath Reson, 'other lynage ryche
That fynden the thy fode?
For an hydel man thow semest,
A spendour that spende mot,
Other a spille-tyme;
Other beggest thy lyve
Aboute ate menne hatches;
Other faitest upon Fridays
Other feste dayes in churches;
The wiche is lollerene lyf,
That lytel is preysed
Ther ryghtfulnesse rewardeth
Ryght as men deserveth.
''Reddit unicuique juxta opera sua.''
Ether thow ert broke, so may be,
In body other in membre,
Other y-maymed thorow som myshap.
Werby thow myght be excusede.'
'Wanne ich yong was,' quath ich,
'Many yer hennes,
My fader and my frendes
Founden me to scole,
Tyl ich wiste wyterliche
Wat holy wryt menede,
And wat is best for the body,
As the bok telleth,
And sykerest for the soule,
By so ich wolle continue.
And yut fond ich never in faith,
Sytthen my frendes deyden,
Lyf that me lyked,
Bote in thes long clothes.
Hyf ich by laboure sholde lyf,
And lyflode deserven,
That labour that ich lerned best
Therwhit lyve ich sholde.
''In eadem vocatione qua vocati estis.''
And ich lyve in Londene
And on Londen bothe.
The lomes that ich laboure with
And lyflode deserve,
Ys paternoster and my prymer,
''Placebo et dirige'',
And my sauter some tyme,
And my sevene psalmes.
Thus ich synge for hure soules
Of suche as me helpen.
And tho that fynden me my fode
Vochen saf, ich trowe,
To be wolcome wan ich come
Other wyle in a monthe,
Now with hym, and now with hure,
And thus gate ich begge
Withoute bagge other botel,
Bote my wombe one.
And also, moreover,
Me thynketh, syre Reson,
Men sholde constreyne
No clerke to knavene werkes.
For by law of Livitici,
That oure Lord ordeynede,
Clerkes that aren crowned
Of kynde understondyng,
Sholde nother swynke ne swete,
Ne swere at enquestes,
Ne fyghte in no vauntwarde,
Ne hus fo greve.
''Nou reddas malum pro malo.''
For it ben aires of hevene,
And alle that ben crounede
And in queer in churches,
Cristes owene mynestres.
''Dominus pars hæreditatis meæ''

{{gap|0.7em}}''Et alibi, Clementia non constringit.''
Hit bycometh for clerkus
Crist for to serven;
And knaves uncrounede
To cart and to worche.
For shold no clerk be crouned,
Bote yf he y-come were
Of franklens and freemen
And of folke y-weddede.
Bondmen and bastardes,
And beggers children,
Thuse bylongeth to labour.
And lordes children sholde serven,
Bothe God and good men,
As here degree asketh;
Some to synge masses,
Others sitten and wryte,
Rede and receyve
That Reson oughte spende.
And sith bondemenne barnes
Han be made bisshopes,
And barnes bastardes
Han ben archidekenes;
And sopers and here sones
For selver han be knyghtes,
And lordene sones here laboreres,
And leid here rentes to wedden
For the ryght of the reame,
Ryden ayens oure enemys,
In consort of the comune
And the kynges worshep.
And monkes and moniales.
That mendinauns sholden fynde,
Han mad here kyn knyghtes,
And knyght fees purchase.
Popes and patrones
Povre gentil blod refuseth,
And taken Symondes sonne
Seyntewarie to kepe.
Lyf-holynesse and love
Han ben longe hennes,
And wole, til hit be wered out,
Or otherwise y-chaunged.
For-thy rebuke me ryht nouht,
Reson, ich yow praye;
For in my conscience ich knowe
What Crist wolde that ich wroughte.
Preyers of perfyt man,
And penaunce discret,
Is the levest labour
That oure Lord pleseth.
''Non de solo'', ich seyde,
For sothe ''vivit homo'',
''Nec in pane et pabulo'',
The paternoster witnesseth.
''Fiat voluntas tua''
Fynt ous alle thynges.'
Quath Conscience, 'By Crist!
Ich can nat see this lyeth.
Ac it semeth nouht perfitnesse
In cyties for to begge,
Bote he be obediencer
To pryour other to mynstre.'
'That ys soth,' ich seide,
'And so ich by-knowe
That ich have tynt tyme,
And tyme mys-spended.
And yut ich hope, as he
That ofte haveth chaffarede,
That ay hath lost and lost,
And at the latest hym happeth
He bouhte suche a bargayn
He was the bet evere,
And sette hus lost at a lef
At the laste ende;
Suche a wynnynge hym warth
Thorw wyrdes of his grace.
''Simile est regnum cœlorum thesauro abscondito in agro, etc.''

{{gap|0.7em}}''Mulier quæ inveniet dragmam, etc.''
So hope ich to have of hym
That his almyghty
A gobet of hus grace,
And bygynne a tyme
That alle tymes of my tyme
To profit shal turne.'
'Ich rede the,' quath Reson tho,
'Rathe the to bygynne
The lyf that ys lowable
And leel to the soule.'
'Ye, and continue,' quath Conscience.
And to the church ich wente.

{{gap|0.7em}}And to the church gan ich go,
God to honourie,
Byfor the crois on my knees
Knocked ich my brest,
Sykinge for my sennes,
Segginge my paternoster,
Wepyng and wailinge,
Tyl ich was a-slepe
Thenne mete me moche more
Than ich byfor tolde,
Of the mater that ich mete fyrst
On Malverne hulles.
Ich sawe the feld ful of folk
Fram ende to the other;
And Reson revested
Ryght as a pope,
And Conscience his crocer
Byfore the kynge stande.
Reson reverentliche
Byfor all the reame
Prechede and provede
That thuse pestilences
Was for pure synne, etc.
{{gap|1.4em}}''See'' l. [[../Passus 5#vs2497|2497]], of the present edition.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs2497|2497]]{{anchor|notevs2497}}. ''thise pestilences.''—There were three great pestilences in the reign of Edward III, the terrible effects of which were long fresh in people's minds, and they were often taken as points from which to date common events. Two of them had passed at the period when the Visions of Piers Ploughman are believed to have been written, and are the ones here alluded to. Of the first, or great pestilence, which lasted from 31 May, 1348, to 29 Sept. 1349, the contemporary chroniclers give a fearful account. In a register of the Abbey of Gloucester (MS. Cotton. Domit. A. VIII, fol. 124), we have the following entry:—&quot;Anno Domini m{{sup|o}}.ccc{{sup|o}}.xlviij{{sup|o}}. anno vero regni regis Edwardi III, post conquestum xxij{{sup|o}}. incepit magna pestilentia in Anglia, ita quod ''vix tertia pars'' hominum remansit.&quot; This pestilence, known as the ''black plague'', ravaged most parts of Europe, and is said to have carried off in general about two-thirds of the people. It was the pestilence which gave rise to the Decameron of Boccaccio. For an interesting account of it, see Michelet's Hist. de France, iii, 342-349. The second pestilence lasted from 15 Aug. 1361, to May 3, 1362, and was much less severe. The third pestilence raged from 2 July to 29 September, 1369.

[[../Passus 5#vs2500|2500]]{{anchor|notevs2500}}. ''The south-westrene wynd | on Saterday at even.'' Tyrwhitt, in his Preface to Chaucer, first pointed out the identity of this wind with the one mentioned by the old chroniclers (Thorn, Decem. Script. col. 2122; Walsingham, p. 178; the continuator of Adam Murimuth, p. 115), as occurring on the evening of Jan. 15, 1362. The fifteenth of January in that year was a Saturday. The following is the account given by Walsingham: &quot;Anno gratiæ millesimo trecentesimo sexagesimo secundo, qui est annus regni regis Edwardi a conquestu tertii tricesimus sextus, tenuit rex natale apud Wyndesor, et quinto decimo die sequente ventus vehemens, nothus auster affricus, tanta vi erupit, quod flatu suo domos altas, ædificia sublimia, turres, et campanilia, arbores, et alia quæque durabilia et fortia violenter prostravit pariter et impegit, in tantum quod residua quæ modo extant, sunt hactenus infirmiora.&quot; The continuator of Murimuth is more particular as to the time of the day, and in other respects more exact. &quot;A.D. m. ccc. lxii, xv die Januarii, ''circa horam vesperarum'', ventus vehemens notus australis affricus tanta rabie erupit,&quot; etc.

[[../Passus 5#vs2529|2529]]{{anchor|notevs2529}}. ''And fecche Felis his wyf | Fro wyuene pyne.'' MS. Trin. Col. 2.

[[../Passus 5#vs2547|2547]]{{anchor|notevs2547}}. This was a very old and very common proverb in England. Thus in the Proverbs of Hending (Reliquiæ Antiquæ, vol. i, p. 110){{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ne bue thi child never so duere,
Ant hit wolle unthewes lerne,
{{gap|0.7em}}Bet hit other whyle;
Mote hit al habben is wille,
Woltou nultou hit wolle spille,
{{gap|0.7em}}Ant bicome a fule.
''Luef child lore byhoveth'';
{{gap|4.2em}}Quoth Hendyng.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The proverb is a little varied in another copy of these &quot;Proverbs,&quot; p. 194 of the same work. There is a German proverb closely resembling it, &quot;Je lieberes Kind, je schärfere Ruthe.&quot;

[[../Passus 5#vs2551|2551]]{{anchor|notevs2551}}. Prov. xiii, 24 .

[[../Passus 5#vs2569|2569]]{{anchor|notevs2569}}. After this line Whitaker's text has inserted a passage, answering nearly word for word (except in the few first lines) to the passage in our text, ll. 6218-6274.

[[../Passus 5#vs2573|2573]]{{anchor|notevs2573}}. In the same text, the following lines are here added{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
'And also,' quath Reson,
'Ich rede yow, riche
And comuners, to acorden
In alle kynne treuthe.
Let no kynne consail
Ne covetyze yow departe,
That on wit and on wil
Alle youre wardes kepe.
Lo! in hevene on hy
Was an holy comune,
Til Lucifer the lyere
Leyved that hymselve
Were wittyour and worthiour
Than he that was hus maister.
Hold yow in unité.
And ye that hother wolde
Is cause of alle combraunce
To confounde a reame.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs2586|2586]]{{anchor|notevs2586}}. Matt. xxv, 12 .

[[../Passus 5#vs2594|2594]]{{anchor|notevs2594}}. Whitaker's ''Passus Sextus'' ends with this line.

[[../Passus 5#vs2625|2625]]{{anchor|notevs2625}}. Before Envy's confession, and in the place of Lechery, Whitaker's text introduces the confession of Pride—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ich, Pruyde, patientliche
Penaunce ich aske;
For ich formest and ferst
To fader and to moder
Have y-be unboxome,
Ich beseche God of mercy;
And unboxome y-be,
Nouht abaissed to agulte
God and alle good men,
So gret was myn herte;
Inobedient to holy churche,
And to hem that ther serven,
Demed for hure yvel vices,
And excited othere
Thorw my word and al my wit
Hure yvel workes to shewe;
And scorned hem and othere,
Yf a skyle founde,
Lauhynge al aloude,
For lewede men sholde
Wene that ich were witty
And wyser than anothere;
Scorner and unskilful to hem
That skil shewede,
In all manere manners
My name to be y-knowe,
Semeng a sovereyn on,
Wer so me byfulle
To telle eny tale.
Ich trowede me wiser
To carpen other to counsaile
Than eny, lered other lewede.
Proud of aparail
In porte amonge the puple,
Otherwise than ich have,
Withynne other withoute,
Me wilnede that men wende
Ich were in aveyr
Riche and resonable,
And ryghtful of lyvynge;
Bostynge and braggynge
Wyt meny bolde othes;
Avauntyng upon my veine glorie
For eny undernemynge;
And yut so syngeler by myself
Ne non so pomp holy,
Som tyme on a secte,
Sam tyme on another;
In all kynne covetyse
Contrevede how ich myghte
Be holde for holy,
And hondred sithe by that encheison;
Wilnede that men wende
My werkes were the beste
And konnygest of my craft,
Clerkes other othere,
And strengest upon my stede,
And styvest under gurdell,
And lovelokest to loken on,
And lykyngest a-bedde;
And lykynge of such a lif
That no lawe preyseth;
Proud of my faire fetours;
And for ich songe shrille;
And what ich gaf for Godes love,
To godsybbes ich tolde,
Ther to wene that ich were
Wel holy and wel almesful.
And non so bold begger
To bydden an[d] crave,
Tales to telle
In tavernes and in stretes,
Thyng that nevere was thouhte,
And yut ich swor ich sauh hit,
And lyed on my lykame
And on my lyf bothe.
Of werkes that ich wel dude
Witnesse ich take,
And syggen to such
That sytten me bysyde,
'Lo! yf ye leyve me nouht,
Other that ye wene ich lye,
Ask of hym other of hure,
And thei conne yow telle
What ich soffrede an[d] seih,
And som tyme hadde,
And what ich knew and couthe,
Of wat kyn ich kam of;
Al ich wolde that men wuste,
When it to pruyde sonede,
As to preised among the puple,
Thauh ich povre semede.'
''Si hominibus placerem, Christi servus non essem. Nemo potest duobus dominis servire.''
'Now God, of hus goodnesse,
Geve the grace to amende!'
Quath Repentaunce ryght with that;
And thenne roos Envye.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The description of Envy, which follows, is shorter in Whitaker's text, and differs much from our text.

[[../Passus 5#vs2819|2819]]{{anchor|notevs2819}}-[[../Passus 5#vs2822|2822]]. The discipline here described seems to have been peculiar to the chapter-house of the monasteries. Matth. Paris, p. 848, has an anecdote which illustrates curiously this passage of Piers Ploughman. In speaking of the turbulent Falcasius de Breuté, who had been warned in a vision to offer himself to suffer penance in the monastery of St. Albans, in the reign of Henry III, he says, &quot;Vestibus igitur spoliatus cum suis militibus, similiter indumentis spoliatis, ferens in manu virgam quam vulgariter ''baleis'' appellamus, et confitens culpam suam, ... a singulis fratribus disciplinas nuda carne suscepit.&quot;

[[../Passus 5#vs2846|2846]]{{anchor|notevs2846}}. In the text which Whitaker has printed, the confession of Wrath was followed by that of Luxury or Lechery. It stands as follows in the copy of the same text in MS. Cotton. Vespas. B. xvi. (''See'' l. [[../Passus 13#vs8713|8713]], of our present text.)

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thanne seide Lecherie, Alas!
And to oure Ladi criede,
'Ladi, for thi leve sone,
Loute for me nouthe,
That he have pité on me, putour,
For his pure merci.'
'With that I schal,' quod that schrewe,
'Saterdaies, for thi love,
Drynke with the doke,
And dine but ones.'

{{gap|0.7em}}I, gulti in gost,
To God I me schrive,
As in likyng of lecherige
My licames gultes,
In wordes, in wedes,
In waityng of eyen,
To eche maide that I mette
I made here a sigge,
Semyng to synne-ward,
And summe can I taste
Aboute the mouth, and binethe
Bigon I to grope,
Til bothe oure wil was on,
To werke we yeden,
As wel fastyng daies,
And hi festes eves,
And wel in Lente as out of Lente,
Al tymes i-liche;
Swiche werkes with us
Weren nevere out of seson,
Til we mighten ne more,
Tho hadde we muri tales
Of putrige and of paramours,
And provede thorw speche,
Handelyng, and halsyng,
And also thorw cussyng,
Excityng heither other
To oure elde synne;
Sotilde songes,
And sente out elde baudes
For te wynne to my wil
Wemmen with gile;
Bi sorcerie sum time,
And sum time be maistrie,
I lai bi the lovelokest,
And lovede hem nevere aftur.

{{gap|0.7em}}Whan I was eld and hor,
And hadde i-lorn that kynde,
I hadde likyng to lige
Of lecherous tales.
Now, lord, for thi lewté,
On lecheres have merci.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs2850|2850]]{{anchor|notevs2850}}. ''Sire Hervy.'' Whitaker and Price (in Warton) suppose that there is here a personal allusion, which at the time had become proverbial.

[[../Passus 5#vs2874|2874]]{{anchor|notevs2874}}. ''Symme at the Style.'' Whit.

[[../Passus 5#vs2881|2881]]{{anchor|notevs2881}}. ''To Wy and to Wynchestre | I wente to the feyre.'' Warton (Hist. of Eng. p. ii, 55, edit. 1840) supposes Wy to be Weyhill, in Hampshire, &quot;where a famous fair still subsists.&quot; In fact it is one of the greatest fairs in England, lasting ten days. For anecdotes of the celebrity of the great fair at Winchester in former times, and for some interesting observations on fairs in general, ''see'' Warton, loc. cit.

[[../Passus 5#vs2933|2933]]{{anchor|notevs2933}}. ''The Roode of Bromholm.'' At the Priory of Bromholm, in Norfolk, there was a celebrated cross, said to be made of fragments of the real cross, and much resorted to by pilgrims. It was brought from Constantinople to England in 1223. The history of this cross, and the miracles said to have been performed by it at Bromholm, are told by Matthew Paris (p. 268). In the MS. Chronicle of Barthol. de Cotton, it is recorded at the date 1223, &quot;Eo tempore Peregrinatio de Bromholm incepit.&quot;

[[../Passus 5#vs2949|2949]]{{anchor|notevs2949}}. ''Frensshe ... of Northfolk.'' Norfolk, it would appear by this, was one of the least refined parts of the island.

[[../Passus 5#vs3030|3030]]{{anchor|notevs3030}}. In this part of the poem, the smaller variations between the present text and Whitaker's are very numerous. After this line, the following passage is inserted{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
With false wordes and writes
Ich have wonne my goodes,
And with gyle and glosynge
Gadered that ich have;
Meddled my merchaundise,
And mad a good moustre,
The werst lay withynne,
A gret wit ich let hit.
And yf my neyhgebore had an hyne,
Other eny best ellys,
More profitable than myn,
Ich made meny wentes,
How ich myght have hit
Al my wit ich caste;
And bote ich hadde hit by othes away,
At last ich stal hit,
Other pryvyliche hus pors shok,
Unpiked his lokes.
And yf ich yede to the plouh,
Ich pynchede on hus half acre,
That a fot londe other a forwe
Fetchen ich wolde
Of my neyhgeboris next,
Nymen of hus erthe,
And yf y repe, over reche,
Other gaf hem red that repen
To sese to me with here sykel,
That ich sewe nevere.
In haly dayes at holy churche
Wenne ich hurde messe,
Ich hadde nevere witerlich
To byseche mercy
For my mysdedes,
That ich ne mornede ofter
For lost of good, leyve me,
Then for lycames gultes.
Thauh ich dedliche synne dude,
Ich dradde hit nat so sore
As wenne ich lenede and leyvede hit lost,
Other longe er hit were paied.
And yf [ich] sente over see
My servaunt to Brugges,
Other into Prus my prentys,
My profit to awaite,
To marchaunde with monye
And maken here eshaunge,
Myght nevere man comforty me
In the meyn time,
Neither matyns ne masse,
Ne othere manere syghtes,
And nevere penaunce performede,
Ne paternoster seyde.
That my mynde ne was
More in my goodes,
Than in Godes grace,
And hus grete myghte.
''Ubi thesaurus tuus, ibi cor tuum.''
{{gap|2.8em}}''See'' ll. [[../Passus 13#vs8751|8751]]-[[../Passus 13#vs8827|8827]].
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs3039|3039]]{{anchor|notevs3039}}. Psa. l, 8 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3083|3083]]{{anchor|notevs3083}}. The confessions of the robber and the glutton are reversed in Whitaker's text, and present many variations. The robber's confession is there preceded by the following curious lines{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Then was ther a Walishman
That was wonderlich sory,
He hight Yyvan Yeld ageyn;
'If ich so moche have,
Al that ich wickedlich wan
Setthen ich hit hadde;
And thauh my liflode lache
Leten ich nelle
That ech man shal have hus,
Er ich hennes wende.
For me ys levere in this lif
As a lorel beggen,
Than in lysse to lyve,
And lese lyf and soule.'
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs3162|3162]]{{anchor|notevs3162}}. Between this line and the next, MS. Trin. Col. 2, inserts ''Bargoynes and beverechis | Begonne for to arise.''

[[../Passus 5#vs3277|3277]]{{anchor|notevs3277}}, [[../Passus 5#vs3278|3278]]{{anchor|notevs3278}}. ''rymes of Robyn Hood | and Randolf erl of Chestre.'' This seems to be the earliest mention of the ballads of Robin Hood which can now be found. Ritson was quite mistaken (Robin Hood, Introd. p. xlix) in the supposed mention of him by the prior of Alnwick, the title of the Latin song being modern. The passage of Fordun, in which Robin Hood is spoken of, is probably an interpolation.

I am not sure that Ritson is right in taking the ''Randolf erl of Chester'' of Piers Ploughman, to be Ranulf de Blundevile: it is quite as probable that he was the Ranulf of Chester of the days of Stephen, whose turbulent deeds may have been the subject of popular ballads. Warton (H. E. P. ii, 373), quoting the passage of Piers Ploughman with the word ''erl'' omitted, conceives it to mean Ralph Higden, and imagines the ''rymes'' to be the Chester Mysteries, of which he conjectured that Ralph Higden was the author.

[[../Passus 5#vs3311|3311]]{{anchor|notevs3311}}. ''Ite missa est.'' The concluding sentence of the service of the Mass.

[[../Passus 5#vs3408|3408]]{{anchor|notevs3408}}. ''the Rode of Chestre.'' There was a celebrated cross or rood at Chester, which was long an object of great veneration, and even of pilgrimage, among our Roman Catholic forefathers. &quot;I do not recollect any thing remarkable (says Mr. Pennant, speaking of Chester) on the outside of the walls which has been unnoticed, unless it be the Rood-eye, and the adjacent places.&quot;—&quot;The name of this spot is taken from ''eye'', its watery situation, and rood, the cross which stood there, whose base is still to be seen.&quot; Pennant's Tour in Wales, edit. 1778, p. 191. According to Gough's Camden, the base was still remaining in 1789.

[[../Passus 5#vs3410|3410]]{{anchor|notevs3410}}. ''Roberd the robbere.'' This name is rather curious in conjunction with the term ''Roberdesmen'' mentioned in the [[#notevs88|note]] on l. 88. It was no uncommon practice to give punning names in this way to people or classes of people. In a Latin song of the reign of Henry III (Political Songs, p. 49), we have a very curious instance of it, one of the names being, as here, ''Robert''{{nowrap|:—}}

Competentur per ''Robert'', ''robbur'' designatur; Robertus excoriat, extorquet, et minatur.— Vir quicunque rabidus consors est Roberto.

Still earlier (12th cent.) a scribe says of one of his brothers, &quot;Secundus dicebatur ''Robertus'', quia a re nomen habuit, ''spoliator'' enim diu fuit et ''prædo''.&quot; (Polit. Songs, p. 354.)

[[../Passus 5#vs3419|3419]]{{anchor|notevs3419}}. ''Dysmas.'' In middle-age legends, Dismas and Gestas were the names of the two thieves who were crucified with Christ. The former was the one who believed in the Saviour, and received a promise of paradise.

[[../Passus 5#vs3443|3443]]{{anchor|notevs3443}}. Before this line, Whitaker's text has the following passage{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ac whiche be the braunches
That bryngeth me to sleuthe,
Ys wanne a man mourneth nat
For hus mysdedes;
The penaunce that the prest enjoyneth
Parfourmeth uvele;
Doth non almys-dedes,
And drat nat of synne:
Lyveth ayens the byleyve,
And no lawe kepeth;
And hath no lykynge to lerne,
Ne of houre Lord hure,
Bote harlotrie other horedom,
Other elles of som wynnyng.
Wan men carpen of Crist
Other of clennesse of soule,
He wext wroth, and wol not huyre
Bote wordes of murthe,
Penaunce and povre men,
The passion of seyntes,
He hateth to huyre therof
And alle that therof carpen.
Thuse beth the braunches, be war,
That bryngeth man to wanhope.
Ye lordes and ladyes,
And legates of holy churche,
That feden fool sages,
Flaterers and lyers,
And han lykynge to lythen hem,
In hope to do yow lawe—
''Væ! vobis qui ridetis, etc.''
And geveth suche mede an mete,
And povre men refusen;
In youre deth deynge,
Ich drede me sore
Lest tho maner men
To moche sorwe yow brynge.
''Consensientes et agentes pari pæna punientur.''
Patriarkes and prophetes,
Prechours of Godes wordes,
Saven thorgh here sermons
Mannes soule fro helle:
Ryght so flaterers and foles
Aren the fendes procuratores,
Entysen men thorgh here tales
To synne and to harlotrie.
Clerkus that knowen this,
Sholde kennen lordes
What David seide of suche men,
As the Sauter telleth:
''Non habitabit in medio domus meæ qui facit superbiam, qui loquitur iniquum.''
Sholde non harlot have audience
In halle ne in chaumbre,
Ther that wys men were.
Whitnesse of Godes wordes;
Nother a mys-prout man
Among lordes alouwed.
Clerkus and knyghtes
Wolcometh kynges mynstrales,
For love of here lordes
Lithen hem at festes:
Muche more, me thenketh,
Riche men auhte
Have beggers byfore hem,
Wiche beth Godes mynstreles,
As he seith hymself,
Seynt Johan berith whittnesse:
''Qui vos spernit, me etiam spernit.''
Therfor ich rede yow, riche,
Reveles when ye maken,
For to solace youre soules,
Suche mynstrales to have,
The povre for a foul sage
Syttynge at thy table,
Whith a lered man to lere the
What oure Lord suffrede,
For to savy thy saule
Fram Satan thyn enemye,
And fitayle the withoute flateryng
Of Good Friday the feste:
And a blynde man for a bordiour,
Other a bed-reden womman
To crye a largesse byfor oure Lord,
Youre good loos to shewe.
Thuse thre manere mynstrales
Maken a man to lauhe;
In hus deth deyng
Thei don hym gret comfort,
That by hus lyfe loveth hem,
And loveth hem to huyre.
Thuse solaceth the soule,
Til hymself be falle
In a wele good hope, for he wroghte so,
Among worthy seyntes,
Ther flaterers and foles
Whith here foule wordes
Leden tho that lithen hem
To Luciferes feste,
With ''Turpiloquio'', a lay of sorwe,
And Lucifers fitele,
To perpetual peyne
Other purgatorye as wykke,
For he litheth and loveth
That Godes lawe despiteth.
''Qui histrionibus dat, dæmonibus sacrificat.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs3466|3466]]{{anchor|notevs3466}}. ''qui manet, &amp;c.'' Epist. Joan. iv, 16 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3477|3477]]{{anchor|notevs3477}}. Epist. Paul, ad Ephes. iv, 8 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3484|3484]]{{anchor|notevs3484}}. Isai. ix, 2 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3496|3496]]{{anchor|notevs3496}}. Matt. ix, 13 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3502|3502]]{{anchor|notevs3502}}. John i, 14 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3520|3520]]{{anchor|notevs3520}}. Psalm xxxv, 8 .

[[../Passus 5#vs3545|3545]]{{anchor|notevs3545}}. ''Signes of Synay, | and shelles of Galice ... keyes of Rome.'' It is perhaps hardly necessary to remark that the articles mentioned here were borne by the pilgrim to indicate the particular holy sites which he had visited. The reader will readily call to mind the lines of a modern poet{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
The summon'd Palmer came in place,
His sable cowl o'erhung his face;
In his black mantle was he clad,
With ''Peter's keys'' in cloth of red
{{gap|0.7em}}On his broad shoulders wrought;
The ''scallop shell'' his cap did deck;
The crucifix around his neck
{{gap|0.7em}}Was from Loretto brought.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 5#vs3622|3622]]{{anchor|notevs3622}}. ''Seint Thomas shryne.'' St. Thomas of Canterbury. It may not perhaps be generally known that an interesting description of this shrine, when in its glory, is given by Erasmus, Colloq. ''Peregrinatio Religionis ergo.''

[[../Passus 5#vs3713|3713]]{{anchor|notevs3713}}. ''eten apples un-rosted.'' One of the many specimens of the burlesque manner in which scripture was frequently quoted in these times. A very singular passage (but in a tract professedly burlesque) occurs in the Reliquiæ Antiquæ, vol. i, p. 83:—&quot;Peter askud Adam a full greyt dowtfull question, and seyd, 'Adam, Adam, why ete thu the appull unpard?' 'For sothe,' quod he, 'for y had no wardyns fryde.'&quot;

[[../Passus 6#vs3826|3826]]{{anchor|notevs3826}}. ''leven'', should be ''lenen''.

[[../Passus 6#vs3890|3890]]{{anchor|notevs3890}}. Luke xiv, 10 .

[[../Passus 6#vs3944|3944]]{{anchor|notevs3944}}, [[../Passus 6#vs3948|3948]]{{anchor|notevs3948}}. Psalm lxviii, 29 .

[[../Passus 6#vs3997|3997]]{{anchor|notevs3997}}. ''the rode of Lukes.'' The second Trin. Col. MS. has ''be the rode of Chestre.'' There was a famous cross at Lucca, but whether a part of the real cross, I have not ascertained. Calvin, in his most able and entertaining ''Admonitio de Reliquiis'', declines undertaking a list of all the places where pieces of the real cross were shown. &quot;Denique si congesta in acervum essent omnia quæ reperiri possent, integrum navis onus efficerent: cum tamen evangelium testificetur ab unico homine ferri potuisse. Quantæ igitur audaciæ fuit, ligneis frustis sic totum implere orbem, quibus ferendis ne trecenti quidem homines sufficiant?&quot; ''Calvini'', ''Opusc.'' p. 277. There was also at Lucca one of the impressions of our Saviour's face on the handkerchief of Veronica. The peculiar oath of William Rufus was by the holy face at Lucca.

[[../Passus 6#vs4027|4027]]{{anchor|notevs4027}}. ''with hey trolly lolly.'' MS. Trin. Col. 2.

[[../Passus 6#vs4154|4154]]{{anchor|notevs4154}}. In the second Trin. Col. MS. the passage stands as follows{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ne hadde Peris but a pese lof,
Thei preyede hym beleve,
And with a bene batte
He hadde betwene,
And hitte hunger therwith
Amydde hise lippes,
And blodde in it the bodyward
A bolle ful of growel,
Ne hadde the fisician ferst
Defendite him watir,
To abate the barly bred,
And the benis y-grounde,
Thei hadde be ded be this day,
And dolven al warm.
Faitours for fer, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 6#vs4194|4194]]{{anchor|notevs4194}}. ''Thei corven here coppes, | and courtepies made.'' Whitaker, who translates it, &quot;They ''carved wooden cups'', and made themselves short cloaks.&quot; It ought to be, &quot;They cut their copes to make courtpies (a kind of short cloaks) of them.&quot;

[[../Passus 6#vs4242|4242]]{{anchor|notevs4242}}. Paul Epist. ad Galat. vi, 2 .

[[../Passus 6#vs4251|4251]]{{anchor|notevs4251}}. Scimus enim qui dixit, mihi vindicta, et ego retribuam. Paul. ad Heb. x, 30 ; conf. Paul. ad Rom. xii, 19 .

[[../Passus 6#vs4256|4256]]{{anchor|notevs4256}}. Luke xvi, 9 .

[[../Passus 6#vs4272|4272]]{{anchor|notevs4272}}. Propter frigus piger arare noluit. Prov. xx, 4 .

[[../Passus 6#vs4306|4306]]{{anchor|notevs4306}}. Labores manuum tuarum quia manducabis, beatus es et bene tibi erit. Psal. cxxvii, 2 .

[[../Passus 6#vs4336|4336]]. ''His mawe is alongid.'' MS. Trin. Coll. 2.

[[../Passus 6#vs4336|4336]]{{anchor|notevs4336}}. Whitaker's text inserts here the following passage, which is curious as containing the same word, ''latchdrawers'', that occurs in Edward's statute, quoted before in the [[#notevs88|note]] to l. 88{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thenk that Dives for hus delicat lyf
To the devel wente,
And Lazar the lene beggere
That longed after cromes,
And yut had he hem nat,
For ich Hunger culde hym,
And suthe ich sauh hym sute,
As he a syre were,
At alle manere ese
In Abrahame lappe.
An yf you be of power,
Peers, ich the rede,
Alle that greden at thy gate
For Godes love after fede,
Parte wit hem of thy payn,
Of potage and of souel,
Lene hem som of thy loof,
Thauh thu the lesse chewe.
And thauh lyers and latchedrawers,
And lolleres knocke,
Let hem abyde tyl the bord be drawe,
Ac bere hem none cromes,
Tyl al thyn nedy neihebores
Have none y-maked.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 6#vs4339|4339]]{{anchor|notevs4339}}. ''Phisik ... hise furred hodes ... his cloke of Calabre.'' Whitaker cites, in illustration of the dress of the physician, the costume still worn by the Doctors of Medicine in the universities. Chaucer gives the following description of the dress of the &quot;Doctour of Phisike&quot;{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
In sangwin and in pers he clad was al,
Lyned with taffata, and with sendal.
{{gap|9.8em}}([[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Prologue#441|Cant. T. Prolog. 441.]])
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


''Calabre'' appears to have been a kind of fur: a document in Rymer, quoted by Ducange, speaks of an ''indumentum foderatum cum Calabre''.

[[../Passus 6#vs4390|4390]]{{anchor|notevs4390}}. ''ripe chiries manye.'' This passage, joined with the mention of cherry-time in l. 2794, shows that cherries were a common fruit in the fourteenth century. &quot;Mr. Gough, in his British Topography, says that cherries were first brought in by the Romans, but were afterwards lost and brought in again in the time of Henry VIII, by Richard Harris, the king's fruiterer; but this is certainly a mistake. When in the New Forest in Hampshire in the summer of 1808, I saw a great many cherry-trees, apparently, of much more considerable age than the time of Henry VIII. The ''very old'' trees were universally of the kind called ''merries''.&quot; H. E.

[[../Passus 6#vs4431|4431]]{{anchor|notevs4431}}. Cato, Distich. i, 21{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Infantem nudum quum te natura crearit,
Paupertatis onus patienter ferre memento.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 6#vs4453|4453]]{{anchor|notevs4453}}. ''so seide Saturne.'' See the Introduction, p. xii.

[[../Passus 7#vs4490|4490]]{{anchor|notevs4490}}. Whitaker's text reads after this line{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Leel and ful of love,
And no lord dreden,
Merciable to meek,
And mylde to the goode,
And bytynge on badde men
Bote yf thei wolde amende,
And dredeth nat for no deth
To distruye by here powere
Lecherie among lordes,
And hure luther custymes,
And sithen lyve as thei lereth men,
Oure lorde Treuthe hem graunteth,
To be peeres to Apostles, &amp;c.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4525|4525]]{{anchor|notevs4525}}. ''sette scolers to scole.'' It was common in the ''scholastic'' ages for scholars to wander about gathering money to support them at the universities. In a poem in MS. Lansdowne, No. 762, the husbandman, complaining of the many burdens he supports in taxes to the court, payments to the church, and charitable contributions of different kinds, enumerates among the latter the alms to scholars{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Than cometh clerkys of Oxford, and mak their mone,
To her scole-hire they most have money.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4547|4547]]{{anchor|notevs4547}}. Psa. xiv, 5 . Qui pecuniam suam non dedit ad usuram, et munera super innocentem non accepit.

[[../Passus 7#vs4571|4571]]{{anchor|notevs4571}}. Psa. xiv, 1 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4593|4593]]{{anchor|notevs4593}}. Matt. vii, 12 . Luke vi, 31 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4618|4618]]{{anchor|notevs4618}}. ''the clerc of stories.'' Called, elsewhere, ''maister of stories''. These names were given popularly to Peter Comestor, author of the famous Historia Scolastica, a paraphrase of the Bible history, with abundance of legendary matter added to it. The title given him by the author of Piers Ploughman is not uncommon in English treatises of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. Lydgate, Minor Poems, p. 102 (Ed. Halliwell), speaks of Comestor thus{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
''Maister of storyes'', this doctour ful notable,
Holding a chalice here in a sonne cliere.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4619|4619]]{{anchor|notevs4619}}. ''Catons techyng.'' &quot;Cui des videto,&quot; is the twenty-third of the &quot;Distichorum Lemmata&quot; of Dionysius Cato.

[[../Passus 7#vs4621|4621]]{{anchor|notevs4621}}. Instead of ll. 4621-4658, the following long and curious passage is substituted in the text adopted by Mr. Whitaker{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Wot no man, as ich wene,
Who is worthy to have.
The most needy aren oure neighebores,
And we nyme good hede;
As prisoners in puttes,
And poore folke in cotes
Charged with children
And chef lordes rente,
That thei spynnynge may spare,
Spynen hit in hous hyre,
Bothe in mylk and in mele.
To maken with papelotes
To aglotye with here gurles
That greden after fode.
Al so hemselve
Suffren muche hunger,
And wo in winter tyme;
With wakyng a-nyghtes
To ryse to the ruel,
To rocke the cradel,
Bothe to karde and to kembe,
To clouten and to wasche,
To rubbe and to rely,
Russhes to pilie,
That reuthe is to rede
Othere in ryme shewe
The wo that theese women
That wonyeth in cotes,
And of meny other men
That muche wo suffren,
Bothe a-fyngrede and a-furst,
To turne the fayre outwarde;
And beth abasshed for to begge,
And wolle nat be y-knowe
What hem needeth att here neihebores
At non and at even.
This Wit wot witerly,
As the world techeth,
What other byhoveth
That hath meny children.
And hath no catel bote hus crafte
To clothy hem and to fede,
And fele to fonge therto,
And fewe pans taketh.
Ther is payn and peny ale,
As for a pytaunce y-take;
Cold flesch and cold fyssh,
For veneson y-bake.
Frydays and fastyng-dayes
Ferthyng worth of muscles
Were a feste for suche a folke,
Other so fele cockes.
Theese were almes to helpe
That han suche charges,
And to comforte suche cotyers,
And crokede men and blynde.
Ac beggers with bagges, the wiche
Brewhouses ben here churches,
Bote thei be blynde other broke,
Other elles syke,
Thauh he falle for defaute,
That faiteth for hus lyflode,
Reicheth nevere, ye ryche,
Thauh suche lorelles sterven;
For all that han here hele
And here eyen syghte,
And lymes to laborye with,
And lolleres lyf usen,
Lyven ayens Godes lawe,
And love of holy churche.
And yut arn ther other beggers,
In hele, as it semeth;
Ac hem wanteth here witt,
Men and women bothe,
The wiche aren lunatik lollers
And leperes aboute,
And mad, as the mone sitt,
More other lasse:
Thei caren for no cold,
Ne counteth of no hete,
And are mevenge after the mone,
Moneyles thei walke,
With a good wil wit-lees,
Meny wyde contreys,
Ryght as Peter dude and Paul,
Save that thei preche nat,
Ne myracles maken;
Ac meny tymes hem happeth
To prophetien of the puple,
Pleyninge, as hit were,
And to oure sight, as hit semeth,
Suththe God hath the myghte
To yeven eche a whit wit,
Welthe, and his hele,
And suffreth suche so gon,
Hit semeth to myn inwitt,
Hit arn as hus aposteles suche puple,
Other as his prevye disciples;
For he sente hem forth selverles,
In a somer garnement,
Withoute bred and bagge,
As the Bok telleth.
''Quando misi vos sine pane et pera.''
Bar fot and bred-les,
Beggeth thei of no man;
And thauh he mete with the meyere
In mydest the strete,
He reverenceth hym ryght nouht
No rather than another.
''Neminem salutaveris per viam'',
Suche manere of men,
Matheu ous techeth,
We sholde have hem to house,
And help hem when thei come.
''Et egenos vagosque induc in domum tuam.''
For hit aren murye mouthede men,
Mynstrales of hevene
And Godes boyes bordiours,
As the Bok telleth.
''Si quis videtur sapiens, fiet stultus ut sit sapiens.''
And alle manere mynstrales,
Men wot wel the sothe,
To underfonge hem faire
Byfalle for the ryche;
For the lordes love and ladies
That thei with lengen,
Men suffren al that suche seyn,
And in solas taken;
And yut more to suche men
Doth, er thei passe,
Gyven hem gyftes and gold,
For grete lordes sake.
Ryght so, ye riche,
Rather ye sholde, for sothe,
Wolcomen and worsshepen
And with youre goode helpen
Godes mynstrales, and hus messagers,
And hus murye burdiers,
The wiche are lunatik lollares
And leperes aboute.
For under Godes secré seel
Here synnes ben y-keverede.
For thei bereth no bagges,
Ne non botels under clokes,
The wiche is lollaren lyf
And lewede eremytes,
That loken ful louheliche
To lacchen mennes almesse,
In hope to suten at even
By the hote coles,
Unlouke hus legges abrod,
Other lygge at hus ese,
Reste hym and roste hym,
And his ryg turne,
Drynke drue and deepe,
And drawe hym thanne to bedde,
And when hym lyketh and lust
Hus leve ys is to aryse;
When he rysen, rometh out,
And ryght wel aspieth
War he may rathest have a repast,
Other a rounde of bacon,
Sulver other fode-mete
And some tyme bothe,
A loof other alf a loof,
Other a lompe of chese,
And carieth it hom to hus cote,
And cast hym to lyve
In ydelnesse and in ese,
And by others travayle.
And wat frek of thys tolde
Fisketh thus aboute
With a bagge at hus bak,
Abegeneldes wyse,
And can som manere craft,
In cas he wolde hit use.
Thorgh wiche craft he couthe come
To bred and to ale,
And ovar more to an hater
To helye with hus bones,
And lyveth like a lollere,
Godes lawe him dampneth.
Lolleres lyvinge in sleuthe,
And overe lond stryken,
Beeth nat in thys bulle, quath Peers,
Til thei ben amended.
Nother beggars that beggen,
Bote yf thei have neede.
The Bok blameth alle beggerye,
And banneth in this manere: etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4645|4645]]{{anchor|notevs4645}}. Luke xix, 23 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4659|4659]]{{anchor|notevs4659}}. Ps. xxxvi, 25 . Junior fui, etenim senui: et non vidi justum derelictum, nec semen ejus quærens panem.

[[../Passus 7#vs4695|4695]]{{anchor|notevs4695}}. Here again, after many verbal variations from our text, Whitaker's text adds the following long passage, which is very curious, and well worthy to be preserved. Whitaker calls it &quot;one of the finest passages in the whole poem.&quot;

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ac eremites that enhabiten hem
By the heye weyes,
And in borwes among brewesters,
And beggen in churches
Al that holy eremytes
Hateden and despisede,
As rychesses and reverences
And ryche mennes almesse.
These lolleres, latche-draweres,
Lewede eremytes,
Coveyten the contrarie,
As cotyers thei lybben,
For hit beth bote boyes,
Lolleres atten ale,
Of linguage of lettrure
Ne lyf-holy as eremytes
That wonnede wyle in wodes
With beres and lyones.
Some had lyflode of here lynage,
And of no lyf elles;
And some lyvede by here lettrure
And labour of here hondes;
Some had foreynes to frendes,
That hem fode sente;
And bryddes brouhten to some bred,
Werby thei lyveden.
Alle thuse holy eremytes
Were of hye kynne,
Forsoke londe and lordshep
And lykynges of the body;
Ac thuse eremytes, that edefyen
Thus by the hye weyes,
Wylen were workmen,
Webbes and taillours,
And carters knaves
And clerkus without grace,
Heelden hungry hous,
And had much defaute,
Long labour and lyte wynnynge,
And atte laste aspiden
That faitours in frere clothynge
Had fatte chekus;
For-thi lefte thei here laboure,
Theese lewede knaves,
And clothed hem in copes,
Clerkus as hit were.
Other on of som ordre,
Othere elles prophite,
Ayens the lawe he lyveth,
Yf Latyn be trywe:
''Non licet nobis legem voluntate, sed voluntatem conjungere legi.''
Now kyndeliche, by Crist!
Beth suche callyd lolleres,
As by Englisch of oure eldres,
Of olde menne techynge,
He that lolleth his lame,
Other his leg out of the joynte,
Other meymed in som membre,
For to meschief hit souneth;
And ryght so sothlyche
Suche manere eremytes
Lollen ayen the bylyeve
And lawe of holy churche.
For holy churche hoteth
Alle manere puple
Under obedience to bee,
And buxum to the lawe,
Furst religious of religion
Here ruele to holde,
And under obedience to be
By dayes and by nyghtes,
Lewede men to laborie,
Lordes to honte
In frythes and in forestes
For fox and other bestes
That in wilde wodes ben,
And in wast places,
As wolves that wyrhyeth men,
Wommen, and children,
And upon Sonedayes to cesse,
Godes service to huyre,
Bothe matyns and messe,
And after mete in churches
To huyre here eve song
Every man ouhte.
Thus it bylongeth for lorde,
For lered and lewede,
Eche halyday to huyre
Hollyche the service,
Vigiles and fastyng dayes
Forthere to knowe,
And fulfille tho fastynges
Bote infirmité hit made,
Poverte othere penaunces,
As pilgrymages and travayles.
Under this obedience
Arn we echone.
Who so brekyeth this, be wel war,
Bot yf he repente,
Amenden hym and mercy aske,
And meekliche hym shryve,
Ich drede me, and he deye,
Hit worth for dedlich synne
Acounted byfore Crist,
Bote Conscience excuse hym.
Loke now were theese lolleres
And lewede eremytes,
Yf thei breke thys obedience
That ben so fro churche,
Wher see we hem on Sonedays
The servise to huyre?
As matyns by the morwe
Tyl masse bygynne,
Other Sonedays at eve songe,
See we wol fewe;
Othere labory for our lyflode
As the lawe wolde
Ac at mydday meel tyme
Ich mete with hem ofte,
Conynge in a cope
As he a clerke were,
A bachelor other a beaupere
Best hym bysemeth,
And for the cloth that kevereth hem
Cald his here a frere,
Whassheth and wypeth,
And with the furste suteth.
Ac while he wrought in thys worlde,
And wan hus mete with Treuthe,
He sat atte syd benche
And secounde table,
Com no wyn in hus wombe
Thorw the weke longe,
Nother blankett in hus bed,
Ne white bred byfore hym.
The cause of al thys caitifté
Cometh of meny bisshepes,
That suffren suche sottes
And othere synnes regne.
Certes ho so thurste hit segge,
''Symon quasi dormit.''
''Vigilate'' were fairour,
For thow hast gret charge:
For meny waker wolves
Ben broke into foldes.
Thyne berkeres ben al blynde,
That bryngeth forth thy lambren;
''Disperguntur oves'', thi dogge
Dar nat beerke.
The tarre is untydy
That to thyne sheep bylongeth;
Hure salve ys of ''supersedeas''
In someneres boxes,
Thyne sheep are ner al shabbyd,
The wolf sheteth woolle.
''Sub molli pastore lupus lanam cacat, et grex incustoditus dilaceratur eo.''
Hoow hurde wher is thyn hounde,
And thyn hardy herte,
For to wyne the wolf
That thy woolle fouleth.
Ich leyve for thy lacchesse
Thow leest meny wederes,
And ful meny fayre flus
Falsliche wasshe.
When thy lord loketh to have
Alowance for hus bestes,
And of the monye thow haddist thermyd,
Hus meable to save,
And the woolle worth weye,
Woo ys the thenne!
''Redde rationem villicationis tuæ'',
Other arerage, ffalle.
Then hyre hurde, as ich hope,
Hath nouht to quyty thy dette,
Ther as mede ne mercy
May nat a myte avayle,
Bote have this for that,
Tho that thow toke
Mercy for mede,
And my lawe breke;
Loke now for thi lacchesse
Whether lawe wol the graunt
Purgatorie for thy paye,
Other perpetuel helle.
For shal no pardone praye for yowe ther,
Nother princes letteres.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4708|4708]]{{anchor|notevs4708}}. Matth. xxv, 46 . Et ibunt hi in supplicium æternum; justi autem in vitam æternam.

[[../Passus 7#vs4721|4721]]{{anchor|notevs4721}}. Psal. xxii, 4 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4739|4739]]{{anchor|notevs4739}}. Psal. xli, 4 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4745|4745]]{{anchor|notevs4745}}. Luke xii, 22 . Conf. Matth. vi, 25 .

[[../Passus 7#vs4764|4764]]{{anchor|notevs4764}}. &quot;Dixit insipiens in corde suo, non est Deus,&quot; is the commencement of Psalms xiii.  and lii. 

[[../Passus 7#vs4769|4769]]{{anchor|notevs4769}}. Prov. xxii, 10 . Ejice derisorem, et exibit cum eo jurgium, cessabuntque causæ et contumeliæ.

[[../Passus 7#vs4771|4771]]{{anchor|notevs4771}}. ''Perkyn'', the diminutive of Peter, or Piers. Formerly the diminutives of people's names were constantly used as marks of familiarity or endearment, as Hawkyn or Halkyn for Henry, Tymkyn for Tim or Timothy, Dawkyn for David, Tomkyn for Thomas, &amp;c.

[[../Passus 7#vs4796|4796]]{{anchor|notevs4796}}. Cato, Distich. ii, 31.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Somnia ne cures, nam mens humana quod optans,
Dum vigilat, sperat, per somnum cernit id ipsum.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 7#vs4847|4847]]{{anchor|notevs4847}}. Matth. xvi, 19 .

[[../Passus 8#vs4941|4941]]{{anchor|notevs4941}}. Prov. xxiv, 16 . Septies enim cadet justus, ''et resurget''; impii autem corruent in malum.

[[../Passus 8#vs4963|4963]]{{anchor|notevs4963}}. ''To falle and to stonde.'' I by no means agree with Price's interpretation of this phrase, or in his preference of the reading ''to falle if he stonde''. (Note on Warton ii, 67.) The motion of the boat causes the firm man alternately to fall and stand; be he ever so stable, he stumbles now and then, but his strength is shown in his being able to recover himself. Such are the moral slips which even the just man cannot avoid. But if the man in the boat be too weak to arise again and place himself at the helm, his boat and himself will be lost for want of strength and guidance. So it is with the wicked man. The completion of the phrase quoted from Proverbs, as given in the preceding note, shows the justice of this explanation.

[[../Passus 8#vs5014|5014]]{{anchor|notevs5014}}. ''if I may lyve and loke.'' Price (in Warton) first pointed out the identity between this expression and the one so common in Homer: it is &quot;one of those primitive figures which are common to the poetry of every country.&quot;

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
{{Polytonic|{{Tooltip|texttip=Outis, emeu zôntos kai epi chthoni derkomenoio,|target=Οὔτις, ἐμεῦ ζῶντος καὶ ἐπὶ χθονὶ δερκομένοιο,}}}}
{{Polytonic|{{Tooltip|texttip=Soi koilêis para nêusi bareias cheiras epoisei.|target=Σὸι κοίλῃς παρὰ νηυσί βαρείας χεῖρας ἐποίσει.}}}}
{{gap|14.35em}}Il. i, 88.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Whitaker's interpretation is nonsense, &quot;If I have space to live and look in the book.&quot; Other instances of this phrase occur in ll. [[../Passus 20#vs12132|12132]], [[../Passus 20#vs13268|13268]], and [[../Passus 20#vs13303|13303]] of Piers Ploughman.

[[../Passus 8#vs5082|5082]]{{anchor|notevs5082}}. 2 Corinth. xi, 19 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5157|5157]]{{anchor|notevs5157}}. ''of four kynnes thynges.'' The medieval notion of the manner in which the elements were mixed together in the formation of the human body, here alluded to, appears to partake more of Western legend than of Eastern tradition. In the English verses on Popular Science (given in my &quot;Popular Treatises of Science written during the Middle Ages,&quot; p. 138), we have the following curious account of the four things forming the body, and the influence of each{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Man hath of urthe al his bodi, of water he haveth wete,
Of eyr he haveth wynd, of fur he haveth hete.
Ech quic thing of alle this foure, of some hath more other lasse;
Ho so haveth of urthe most, he is slou as an asse;
Of vad colour, of hard hide, boustes forme, and ded strong,
Of moche thoght, of lute speche, of stille grounynge, and wraththe long,
A slough wrecche and ferblet, fast and loth to geve his god,
Sone old, and noght wilful, stable and stedefast of mode.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


And so on with the other elements. This doctrine of the composition of man from the four elements became a very popular one in the sixteenth century, when the poets frequently allude to it, as may be seen in the examples given by Nares (''v.'' {{sc|Elements}}). In the ''Mirror for Magistrates'' (''King Forrex'', page 76), it is said{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
If we behold the substance of a man,
{{gap|0.7em}}How he is made of ''elements'' by kind,
Of earth, of water, aire, and fire, than
{{gap|0.7em}}We would full often call unto our mind,
{{gap|0.7em}}That all our earthly joys we leave behind.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Massinger (''Renegado'' iii, 2) says{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
{{gap|7em}}——I've heard
Schoolmen affirm, man's body is compos'd
Of ''the four elements''.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


In Shakespeare (''Twel. N.'' ii, 3), Sir Toby Belch inquires, &quot;Does not our life consist of ''the four elements''?&quot; and Brutus is commended for possessing these elements properly blended, in which the perfection of a man's nature was supposed to consist{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
His life was gentle; and the ''elements''
So mix'd in him, that Nature might stand up
And say to all the world, This ''was a man''.
{{gap|7.7em}}''Jul. Cæs.'' v, 5.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


On the other hand, the ill mixing of these elements was supposed to be accompanied with a corresponding derangement of the intellectual faculties. Thus, in one of the plays of Beaumont and Fletcher, a madman is addressed{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
I prithee, thou ''four elements'' ill brew'd
Torment none but thyself: Away, I say,
Thou beast of passion.
{{gap|7.7em}}''B. and Fl. Nice Valour'', act i, p. 312.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The more mythic form of this legend gives ''eight things'' to the formation of the body, instead of four. Our earliest notice of this legend in England occurs in the prose Anglo-Saxon Dialogue between Saturn and Solomon (Thorpe's Analecta, p. 95):—&quot;Saga me þæt andworc þe Adám wæs of-ge-worht se ærusta man? Ic þe secge of viii punda ge-wihte. Saga me hwæt hatton þage? Ic þe secge þæt æroste wæs fóldan pund, of ðam him wæs flesc ge-worht; oðer wæs fyres pund, þanon him wæs þæt blód reád and hát; þridde wæs windes pund, þanon him wæs seo æðung ge-seald; feorðe wæs wolcnes pund, þanon him wæs his módes unstaðelfæstnes ge-seald; fifte wæs gyfe pund, þanon him wæs ge-seald se fat and geðang; syxste wæs blostnena pund, þanon him wæs eagena myssenlicnys ge-seald; seofoðe wæs deawes pund, þanon him becom swat; eahtothe wæs sealtes pund, þanon him wæron þa tearas sealte.&quot;—''Tell me the matter of which Adam the first man was made? I tell thee, of eight pound-weights. Tell me their names? I tell thee, the first was a pound of earth, of which his flesh was made; the second was a pound of fire, from which his blood was red and hot; the third was a pound of wind, of which breath was given him; the fourth was a pound of cloud, whereof was given him his instability of mood; the fifth was a pound of ..., whereof was given him fat and sinew; the sixth was a pound of flowers, whereof was given him diversity of eyes; the seventh was a pound of dew, whereof he had sweat; the eighth was a pound of salt, whereof he had salt tears.'' This legend was still prevalent in England as late as the fifteenth century, when we find it among the curious collection of questions (closely resembling those of Saturn and Solomon just quoted) entitled &quot;Questions bitwene the Maister of Oxinford and his Scoler&quot; (Reliquiæ Antiquæ, vol. i, p. 230),—&quot;''C.'' Whereof was Adam made? ''M.'' Of viij. thingis: the first of erthe, the second of fire, the iij{{sup|de}} of wynde, the iiij{{sup|th}} of clowdys, the v{{sup|th}} of aire wherethorough he speketh and thinketh, the vj{{sup|th}} of dewe wherby he sweteth, the vij{{sup|th}} of flowres, wherof Adam hath his ien, the viij{{sup|th}} is salte wherof Adam hath salt teres.&quot; A similar account is given in an extract from an old Friesic manuscript communicated to the Zeitschrift für Deutsches Alterthum, by Dr. James Grimm,—&quot;God scôp thene êresta meneska, thet was Adam, fon achta wendem; that bênete fon tha stêne, thet flâsk fon there erthe, thet blôd fon tha wetere, tha herta fon tha winde, thene togta (l. thochta) fon tha wolken, the(ne) suêt fon tha dawe, tha lokkar fon tha gerse, tha âgene fon there sunna, and tha blêrem on thene helga ôm.&quot;—''God created the first man, who was Adam, of eight elements: the bone from the stone, the flesh from the earth, the blood from the water, the heart from the wind, the thought from the cloud, the sweat from the dew, the hair from the grass, the eyes from the sun.''

[[../Passus 9#vs5169|5169]]{{anchor|notevs5169}}. ''a proud prikere of Fraunce.'' A proud rider of France. Until the fifteenth century there appears to have been a strong prejudice among the lower orders against horsemen: their name was connected with oppressors and foreigners. Horses appear to have been comparatively little used for riding among the Anglo-Saxons until they were introduced by the Norman favourites of Edward the Confessor, in whose reign we read that the Anglo-Saxon soldiers in Herefordshire were defeated by the Welsh owing to their awkwardness on horseback, having been unadvisedly mounted by their Norman commander. The Anglo-Norman barons of the three following centuries, with their numerous household of knights and attendants who plundered and oppressed the peasantry and middle classes of society, kept alive the prejudice alluded to, and we trace it in several popular songs. In a song of the reign of Edward I (Political Songs, p. 240), we find the following lines{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Whil God wes on erthe
{{gap|0.7em}}And wondrede wyde,
Whet wes the resoun
{{gap|0.7em}}Why he nolde ryde?
For he nolde no grom
{{gap|0.7em}}To go by ys syde,
Ne grucchyng of no gedelyng
{{gap|0.7em}}To chaule ne to chyde.
Spedeth ou to spewen,
{{gap|0.7em}}Ase me doth to spelle;
The fend ou afretie
{{gap|0.7em}}With fleis ant with felle!
Herkneth hideward, horsmen,
{{gap|0.7em}}A tidyng ich ou telle,
That ye shulen hongen,
{{gap|0.7em}}Ant herbarewen in helle!
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 9#vs5276|5276]]{{anchor|notevs5276}}. Epist. ad. Philippens. iii, 19 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5283|5283]]{{anchor|notevs5283}}. Epist. Joan. iv, 16 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5289|5289]]{{anchor|notevs5289}}. Matth. xxv, 12 ; Psal. lxxx, 13 . Et dimisi eos secundum desideria cordis eorum, ibunt in adventionibus suis.

[[../Passus 9#vs5305|5305]]{{anchor|notevs5305}}. ''the four doctours.'' The four doctors ''par excellence'' of the western church were, I believe, Gregory, Ambrose, Augustine, and Jerome.

[[../Passus 9#vs5354|5354]]{{anchor|notevs5354}}. Ecclesiast. i, 16 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5363|5363]]{{anchor|notevs5363}}. Epist. Jacob. ii, 10 . Quicunque autem totam legem servaverit, offendat autem in uno, factus est omnium reus.

[[../Passus 9#vs5412|5412]]{{anchor|notevs5412}}. ''as Caym was on Eve.'' See further on l. [[../Passus 9#vs5549|5549]]. According to a very curious legend, which was popular in the middle ages, Cain was born during the period of penitence and fasting to which our first parents were condemned for their breach of obedience.

[[../Passus 9#vs5415|5415]]{{anchor|notevs5415}}. Psa. vii, 15 . Concepit dolorem et peperit iniquitatem.

[[../Passus 9#vs5417|5417]]{{anchor|notevs5417}}. Whitaker's text inserts before this line—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Caym, the cursed creature,
Conceyved was in synne;
After that Adam and Eve
Hadden y-synged,
Withoute repentaunce
Of here rechelessnesse,
A rybaud thei engendrede,
And a gome unryghtful;
As an hywe that ereth nat
Auntreth hym to sowe
On a leye lond,
Ayens hus lordes wille,
So was Caym conceyved,
And so ben cursed wrettches
That lycame han ayen the lawe
That oure Lord ordeynede.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 9#vs5433|5433]]{{anchor|notevs5433}}. Gen. vi, 7 . pænitet enim me fecisse eos.

[[../Passus 9#vs5464|5464]]{{anchor|notevs5464}}. Ezech. xviii, 20 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5470|5470]]{{anchor|notevs5470}}. Whitaker's text adds here{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Westminster lawe, ich wot,
Worcheth the contrarie;
For thauh the fader be a frankelayne,
And for a felon be hanged,
The heritage that the air sholde have
Ys at the kynges wille.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 9#vs5479|5479]]{{anchor|notevs5479}}. Matt. vii, 16 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5497|5497]]{{anchor|notevs5497}}. John xiv, 6 .

[[../Passus 9#vs5507|5507]]{{anchor|notevs5507}}. ''many a peire, sithen the pestilence.'' The continuator of William de Nangis, who gives a detailed account of the effects of the great pestilence on the Continent, mentions the hasty marriages which followed it, but he gives quite a different account of their fruitfulness. &quot;Cessante autem dicta epidimia, pestilentia, et mortalitate, nupserunt viri qui remanserunt et mulieres ad invicem, conceperunt uxores residuæ per mundum ultra modum, nulla sterilis efficiebatur, sed prægnantes hinc inde videbantur, et plures geminos pariebant, et aliquæ tres infantes insimul vivos emittebant.&quot; The writer goes on to observe, &quot;Sed proh dolor! ex hujus renovatione sæculi non est mundus propter hoc in melius commutatus. Nam homines fuerunt postea magis avari et tenaces, cum multo plura bona quam antea possiderent; magis etiam cupidi et per lites, brigas, et rixas, atque per placita, seipsos conturbantes.... Charitas etiam ab illo tempore refrigescere cæpit valde, et iniquitas abundavit cum ignorantiis et peccatis; nam pauci inveniebantur qui scirent aut vellent in domibus, villis, et castris informare pueros in grammaticalibus rudimentis.&quot;—''Contin. G. de Nangis, in Dacherii Spicileg.'' iii, 110 (''ed.'' 1723).

[[../Passus 9#vs5515|5515]]{{anchor|notevs5515}}. ''do hem to Dunmowe.'' This is, I believe, the earliest allusion at present known to the custom of the flitch of bacon at Dunmow, which was evidently, at that time, a matter of general celebrity. In Chaucer, about half a century later, the Wife of Bath says of her two old husbands, and of the way in which she tyrannized over them,—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
The bacoun was nought fet for hem, I trowe,
That som men fecche in Essex at Donmowe.—[[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Wife of Bath#217|''Cant. T.'' 5799.]]
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


In a curious religious poem preserved in a manuscript in the Bodleian Library at Oxford, written about the year 1460, from which some extracts are printed in the &quot;Reliquiæ Antiquæ,&quot; ii, 27-29, we have the following satirical allusion to this custom{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
I can fynde no man now that wille enquere
The parfyte wais unto Dunmow;
For they repent hem within a yere,
And many within a weke, and sonner, men trow;
That cawsith the weis to be rowgh and over-grow,
That no man may fynd path or gap,
The world is turnyd to another shap.

Befe and moton wylle serve wele enow;
And for to seche so ferre a lytill bakon flyk,
Which hath long hanggid resty and tow
And the wey, I telle you, is comborous and thyk,
And thou might stomble, and take the cryk;
Therfor bide at home, what so ever hap
Tylle the world be turnyd into another shap.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


One or two other allusions to this custom have been found in manuscripts of the fifteenth century, and in the sixteenth century these allusions become more numerous.

[[../Passus 9#vs5563|5563]]{{anchor|notevs5563}}. 1 Corinth. vii, 1 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5613|5613]]{{anchor|notevs5613}}. ''Margery perles.'' A margarite pearl, ''perle marguerite''. The Latin name for a pearl (''margarita'') seems to be the origin of this expression.

[[../Passus 10#vs5634|5634]]{{anchor|notevs5634}}. ''a love day | to lette with truthe.'' Love days (''Dies amoris'') were days fixed for settling differences by umpire, without having recourse to law or to violence. The ecclesiastics seem generally to have had the principal share in the management of these transactions, which throughout the Visions of Piers Ploughman appear to be censured as the means of hindering justice and of enriching the clergy. A little further on, Religion is blamed for being &quot;a ledere of love-dayes.&quot; (l. [[../Passus 10#vs6219|6219]].) In Chaucer, it is said of the friar{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And over'al, ther eny profyt schulde arise,
Curteys he was, and lowe of servyse.
&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;
And rage he couthe and pleye as a whelpe,
In love-dayes, ther couthe he mochil helpe.
For ther was he not like a cloysterer
With a thredbare cope, as a pore scoler,
But he was like a maister or a pope.—[[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Prologue#249|''Cant. T.'' 249, 259.]]
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 10#vs5646|5646]]{{anchor|notevs5646}}. The quotation is made up from Job xxi, 7 ; and Jerem. xii, 2 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5651|5651]]{{anchor|notevs5651}}. Psal. lxxii, 12 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5659|5659]]{{anchor|notevs5659}}. Psal. x, 4 . Quoniam quæ perfecisti, destruxerunt: justus autem quid fecit?

[[../Passus 10#vs5739|5739]]{{anchor|notevs5739}}. Psal. cxxxi, 6 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5769|5769]]{{anchor|notevs5769}}. Isai. lviii, 7 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5778|5778]]{{anchor|notevs5778}}. Tob. iv, 9 . Si multum tibi fuerit, abundanter tribue; si exiguum tibi fuerit, etiam exiguum libenter impertiri stude.

In what follows, Whitaker's text is in parts much more brief than the one now printed; there are also many transpositions, and other variations, which are not of sufficient importance to be pointed out more particularly.

[[../Passus 10#vs5801|5801]]{{anchor|notevs5801}}. ''in a pryvee parlour.'' [[../Passus 10#vs5803|5803]]{{anchor|notevs5803}}. ''in a chambre with a chymenee.'' This is a curious illustration of contemporary manners. The hall was the apartment in which originally the lord of the household and the male portion of the family passed nearly all their time when at home, and where they lived in a manner in public. The chambers were only used for sleeping, and as places of retirement for the ladies, and had, at first, no fire-places (''chymenees''), which were added, in course of time, for their comfort. The parlour was an apartment introduced also at a comparatively late period, and was, as its name indicates, a place for private conferences or conversation. As society advanced in refinement, people sought to live less and less in public, and the heads of the household gradually deserted the hall, except on special occasions, and lived more in the parlour and in the &quot;chambre with a chymenee.&quot; With the absence of the lord from the hall, its festive character and indiscriminate hospitality began to diminish; and the popular agitators declaimed against this as an unmistakeable sign of the debasement of the times.

[[../Passus 10#vs5829|5829]]{{anchor|notevs5829}}. Ezech. xviii, 19 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5835|5835]]{{anchor|notevs5835}}. Galat. vi, 5 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5844|5844]]{{anchor|notevs5844}}. Pauli Epist. ad Rom. xii, 3 .

[[../Passus 10#vs5911|5911]]{{anchor|notevs5911}}. ''seven artz.'' In the scholastic system of the middle ages, the whole course of learning was divided into seven arts, which were, grammar, dialectics, rhetoric, music, arithmetic, geometry, astronomy. They were included in the following memorial distich{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Gram. loquitur, Dia. vera docet, Rhet. verba colorat,
Mus. canit, Ar. numerat, Geo. ponderat, As. colit astra.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 10#vs5963|5963]]{{anchor|notevs5963}}. ''a baleys.'' See before, the [[#notevs2819|note]] on l. 2819.

[[../Passus 10#vs5990|5990]]{{anchor|notevs5990}}. ''Caton.'' Distich. lib. i, 26.

[[../Passus 10#vs6009|6009]]{{anchor|notevs6009}}. Galat. vi, 10 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6022|6022]]{{anchor|notevs6022}}. Epist. ad Rom. xii, 19 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6037|6037]]{{anchor|notevs6037}}. The second Trin. Coll. MS. reads here—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Experimentis of Alkenemye
Of Albertis makyng,
Nigromancie and permansie
The pouke to reisen,
Gif thou thenke, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 10#vs6146|6146]]{{anchor|notevs6146}}. Matth. vii, 3 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6179|6179]]{{anchor|notevs6179}}. Matth. xv, 14 ; Luke vi, 39 ; Mark (?)

[[../Passus 10#vs6186|6186]]. ''mausede.'' An error of the press for ''mansede''. See the Glossary.

[[../Passus 10#vs6191|6191]]{{anchor|notevs6191}}. ''Offyn and Fynes''. Ophni and Phinees. See 1 Samuel iv. (in the Vulgate called 1 Kings).

[[../Passus 10#vs6199|6199]]{{anchor|notevs6199}}. Psal. xlix, 21 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6207|6207]]{{anchor|notevs6207}}. Isai. lvi, 10 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6217|6217]]{{anchor|notevs6217}}. The text of the Trin. Coll. MS. 2, differs very much from ours in this part of the poem. Instead of 6217-6277, we have the following lines{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ac now is Religioun a ridere
And a rennere aboute,
A ledere of ladies,
And a lond biggere;
Poperith on a palfrey
To toune and to toune;
A bidowe or a biselard
He berith be his side;
Godis flessh and his fet
And hise fyve woundis
Arn more in his mynde
Than the memorie of his foundours.
This is the lif of this lordis
That lyven shulde with Do-bet,
And wel awey wers,
And I shulde al telle.
I wende that kinghed and knighthed,
And caiseris with erlis,
Wern Do-wel and Do-bet
And Do-best-of-hem-alle.
For I have seighe it myself,
And siththen red it aftir,
How Crist counseilleth the comune,
And kenneth hem this tale,
''Super cathedram Moisi sederunt principes''
For-thi I wende that tho wyes
Wern Do-best-of-alle.
I nile not scorne, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 10#vs6223|6223]]{{anchor|notevs6223}}. ''an heepe of houndes.'' &quot;Walter de Suffield, bishop of Norwich, bequeathed by will his pack of hounds to the king, in 1256. Blomefield's Norf. ii, 347. See Chaucer's Monke, [[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Prologue#165|Prol. v, 165]]. This was a common topic of satire. It occurs again fol. xxvii, a [l. [[../Passus 5#vs3321|3321]], of the present Edition]. See Chaucer's Testament of Love, [[Chaucerian and Other Pieces/Piece1#2_65|page 492, col. ii]], Urr. The Archdeacon of Richmond, on his visitation, comes to the priory of Bridlington in Yorkshire, in 1216, with ninety-seven horses, twenty dogs, and three hawks. Dugd. Mon. ii, 65.&quot; {{sc|Warton.}}

[[../Passus 10#vs6251|6251]]{{anchor|notevs6251}}. Psal. xix, 8 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6259|6259]]{{anchor|notevs6259}}. ''the abbot of Abyngdone.'' There was a very ancient and famous abbey at Abingdon in Berkshire. Geoffrey of Monmouth was abbot there. It was the house into which the monks, strictly so called, were first introduced in England, and is, therefore, very properly introduced as the representative of English monachism.

[[../Passus 10#vs6266|6266]]{{anchor|notevs6266}}. Isai. xiv, 4 , 5.

[[../Passus 10#vs6289|6289]]{{anchor|notevs6289}}. Ecclesiasticus x, 10 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6291|6291]]{{anchor|notevs6291}}. Catonis Distich. iv, 4.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Dilige denari, sed parce dilige, formam;
Quem nemo sanctus nec honestus captat ab ære.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 10#vs6327|6327]]{{anchor|notevs6327}}. Colos. iii, 1 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6353|6353]]{{anchor|notevs6353}}. ''mœchaberis.'' A mistake in the original MS. for ''necaberis'', as it is rightly printed in Crowley's edition.

[[../Passus 10#vs6372|6372]]{{anchor|notevs6372}}. John iii, 13 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6414|6414]]{{anchor|notevs6414}}. Matth. xxiii, 2 . Super cathedram Moysi sederunt Scribæ et Pharisæi.

[[../Passus 10#vs6440|6440]]{{anchor|notevs6440}}. Psal. xxxv, 8 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6476|6476]]{{anchor|notevs6476}}. Ecclesiastes ix, 1 .

[[../Passus 10#vs6504|6504]]{{anchor|notevs6504}}. Matth. x, 18 . The quotation is not quite literal.

[[../Passus 10#vs6528|6528]]. For ''idiotæ irapiunt'', read ''idiotæ vi rapiunt'': the error was caused accidentally in the printing, and has escaped in the present edition.

[[../Passus 10#vs6571|6571]]{{anchor|notevs6571}}. Matth. xx, 4 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6741|6741]]{{anchor|notevs6741}}. John iii, 3 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6755|6755]]{{anchor|notevs6755}}. Matth. vii, 1 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6764|6764]]{{anchor|notevs6764}}. Psal. l, 21 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6815|6815]]{{anchor|notevs6815}}. Isai. lv, 1 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6825|6825]]{{anchor|notevs6825}}. Mark xvi, 16 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6831|6831]]{{anchor|notevs6831}}. ''may no cherl chartre make.'' Such was the law of ''vileinage'', then in existence. There is a curious story illustrative of the condition of the ''cherl'' or peasant, in the Descriptio Norfolciensium, in my Early Mysteries and other Latin Poems of the Twelfth and Thirteenth Centuries, p. 94. The 'cherl,' vilein, or bondman, could not even be put apprentice without the licence of the lord of the soil. In the curious poem on the Constitution of Masonry (14th cent.) published by Mr. Halliwell, the master is particularly cautioned on this point{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
The fowrthe artycul thys moste be,
That the mayster hym wel be-se
That he no bondemon prentys make,
Ny for no covetyse do hym take;
For the lord that he ys bonde to,
May fache the prentes whersever he go.
{{gap|3.5em}}''Early History of Freemasonry in England'', p. 14.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 11#vs6859|6859]]{{anchor|notevs6859}}. ''Trojanus.'' [[../Passus 11#vs6869|6869]]{{anchor|notevs6869}}. ''Gregorie.'' The legend here alluded to is given briefly as follows, in the life of St. Gregory in the Golden Legend, fol. lxxxxvii,—

&quot;In the tyme that Trayan themperour regned, and on a tyme as he wente toward a batayll out of Rome, it happed that in hys waye as he shold ryde a woman a wydowe came to hym wepyng and sayd: I praye thee, syre, that thou avenge the deth of one my sone, whyche innocently and wythout cause hath ben slayn. Themperour answerd: yf I come agayn fro the batayll hool and sounde, thenne I shall do justyce for the deth of thy sone. Thenne sayd the wydowe: Syre, and yf thou deye in the bataylle, who shall thenne avenge hys deth for me? And the wydowe sayd, is it not better that thou do to me justice, and have the meryte thereof of God, than another have it for thee? Then had Trayan pyté, and descended fro his horse, and dyde justyce in avengynge the deth of her sone. On a tyme saynt Gregory went by the marked of Rome whyche is called the marked of Trayan. And thenne he remembred of the justyce and other good dedes of Trayan, and how he had ben pyteous and debonayr, and was moche sorowfull that he had ben a paynem; and he tourned to the chyrche of saynt Peter waylyng for thorrour of the mescreaunce of Trayan. Thenne answerd a voys fro God, sayng: I have now herd thy prayer, and have spared Trayan fro the payne perpetuelly. By thys thus, as somme saye, the payne perpetuell due to Trayan as a mescreaunt was somme dele take awaye, but for all that was he not quyte fro the pryson of helle; for the sowle may well be in helle, and fele ther no payne, by the mercy of God.&quot;

[[../Passus 11#vs6907|6907]]{{anchor|notevs6907}}. 1 John iii, 15 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6938|6938]]{{anchor|notevs6938}}. Luke xiv, 12 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6964|6964]]{{anchor|notevs6964}}. John viii, 34 .

[[../Passus 11#vs6981|6981]]{{anchor|notevs6981}}. Galat. vi, 2 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7015|7015]]{{anchor|notevs7015}}. Matth. vii, 3 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7063|7063]]{{anchor|notevs7063}}. Luke x, 40 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7072|7072]]{{anchor|notevs7072}}. Luke x, 42 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7113|7113]]{{anchor|notevs7113}}. Although our writer quotes the circumstance from Luke xviii, the words he gives are from Matth. xix, 21 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7113|7113]]. In Whitaker's text the following passage is here inserted{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thus consaileth Crist
In comun ous alle,
'Ho so coveyteth to come
To my kynriche,
He mot forsake hymself,
Hus suster, and hus brother,
And al that the worlde wolde,
And my wil folwen.'
''Nisi renunciaveritis omnia quæ possidetis, etc.''
Meny proverbis ich myghte have
Of meny holy seyntes,
To testifie for treuthe
The tale that ich shewe,
And poetes to preoven hit,
Porfirie and Plato,
Aristotle, Ovidius,
And ellevene hundred,
Tullius, Tholomeus,
Ich can nat telle here names,
Preoven pacient poverte
Pryns of alle vertues.
And by greyn that groweth,
God ous alle techeth.
''Nisi granum frumenti cadens in terra, et mortuum fuit, ipsum solum manet.''
Bot yf that sed that sowen is,
In the sloh sterve,
Shal nevere spir springen up,
Ne spik on strawe curne;
Sholde nevere wete wexe,
Bote wete fyrste deyde;
And other sedes also
In the same wyse,
That ben leide on louh eerthe,
Y-lore as hit were,
And thorw the grete grace of God,
Of greyn ded in erthe
Atte the laste launceth up
Werby lyven alle.
Ac sedes that ben sowen
And mowe suffre wyntres,
Aren tydyor and tower
To mannes by-hofte,
Than seedes that sowen beeth
And mowe nouht with forste,
With wyndes, ne with wederes,
As in wynter tyme,
As lynne-seed, and lik-seed,
And Lente-seedes alle,
Aren nouht so worthy as whete,
Ne so wel mowen
In the feld with the forst,
And hit freese longe.
Ryght so, for sothe,
That suffre may penaunces
Worth alowed of oure Lorde
At here laste ende,
And for here penaunce be preysed,
As for puyre martir,
Other for a confessour y-kud,
That counteth nat a ruysshe
Fere ne famyne,
Ne false menne tonges;
Bote as an hosebonde hopeth
After an hard wynter,
Yf God gyveth hym the lif
To have a good hervest,
So preoveth thees prophetes
That pacientliche suffreth
Myschiefs and myshappes,
And menye tribulacions,
Bytokneth ful triweliche
In tyme comynge after
Murthe for hus mornynge,
And that muche plenté.
For Crist seide to hus seyntes
That for hus sake tholeden
Poverte, penaunces,
Persecution of body,
Angeles in here angre
On this wise hem grate,
''Tristitia vestra vertetur in gaudium.''
Youre sorwe into solas
Shal turne atte laste,
And out of wo into wele
Youre wyrdes shul chaunge.
Ac so redeth of riche,
The revers he may fynde,
How God, as the Godspel telleth,
Geveth hem foul towname,
And that hus gost shal go,
And hus good byleve,
And asketh hym after
Ho shal hit have,
The catel that he kepeth so
In coffres and in hernes,
And ert so loth to lene
Thet leve shalt needes.
''O stulte, ista nocte anima tua egrediatur, thesauriza et ignorat.''
An unredy reve
Thi residue shal spene,
That menye moththe was ynne
In a mynte while;
Upholderes on the hul
Shullen have hit to selle.
Lo! lo! lordes, lo!
And ladies taketh hede,
Hit lasteth nat longe
That is lycour swete,
Ac pees-coddes and pere-ronettes,
Plomes and chiries,
That lyghtliche launceth up,
Litel wile dureth,
And that that rathest rypeth,
Roteth most sannest.
On fat londe and ful of donge
Foulest wedes groweth,
Right so, for sothe,
Suche that ben bysshopes,
Erles and archdekenes,
And other ryche clerkes.
That chaffaren as chapmen,
And chiden bote thei wynne,
And haven the worlde at here wil
Other wyse to lyve;
Right as weodes wexen
In wose and in dunge,
So of rychesse upon richesse
Arist al vices.
Lo! lond overe-layde
With marle and with donge,
Whete that wexeth theron
Worth lygge ar hit repe;
Right so, for sothe,
For to sigge treuthe,
Over plenté pryde norssheth
Ther poverte destrueth hit.
For how hit evere be y-wonne,
Bote hit be wel dispended,
Worliche wele is wuked thynge
To hym that hit kupeth.
For yf he be feer therfro,
Ful ofte hath he drede
That fals folke fetche away
Felonliche hus godes.
And yut more hit maketh men
Meny time and ofte
To synegen, and to souchen
Soteltees of gyle,
For covetyze of that catel
To culle hem that hit kepeth;
And so is meny men y-morthred
For hus money and goodes;
And tho that duden the dede
Y-dampned therfore after,
And he, for hus harde heldynge,
In helle paraunter;
So covetise of catel
Was combraunce to hem alle.
Lo! how pans purchasede
Faire places, and drede,
That rote is robbers
The richesse withynne.

{{gap|1.4em}}[''Passus quartus de Dowel.'']

Ac wel worth Poverte,
For he may walke unrobbede,
Among pilours in pees,
Yf pacience hym folwe,
Oure prynce Jhesu poverte chees,
And hus aposteles alle,
And ay the lenger thei lyveden
The lasse good thei hadde.
''Tanquam nihil habentes, et omnia possidentes.''
Yut men that of Abraam
And Job were wonder ryche,
And out of numbre tho men
Menye meobles hadden.
Abraam, for al hus good,
Hadde muche teene,
In gret poverte was y-put,
A pryns as hit were
Bynom hym ys housewif
And heeld here hymself,
And Abraam nat hardy
Ones to letten hym,
Ne for brightnesse of here beauté
Here spouse to be byknowe.
And for he suffrede and seide nouht,
Oure Lord sente tokne,
That the kynge cride
To Abraam mercy,
And deliverede hym hus wif,
With muche welthe after.
And also Job the gentel
What joye hadde he on erthe,
How bittere he hit bouhte!
As the book telleth.
And for he songe in hus sorwe,
''Si bona accipimus a Domino'',
Dereworthe dere God,
Do we so ''mala'';
Al hus sorwe to solas
Thorgh that songe turnede,
And Job bycam a jolif man,
And al hus joye newe.
Lo how patience in here poverte
Thees patriarkes relevede,
And brouhte hem al above
That in bale rotede,
As greyn that lyth in the greot
And thorgh grace atte laste
Spryngeth up and spredeth,
So spedde the fader Abraam,
And also the gentel Job,
Here joie hath non ende.
Ac leveth nouht, ye lewede men,
That ich lacke richesse,
Thauh ich preise poverte thus,
And preove hit by ensamples,
Worthiour as by holy writ,
And wise philosophers,
Bothe two but goode,
Be ye ful certayn,
And lyves that our Lorde loveth,
And large weyes to hevene.
Ac the povre pacient
Purgatorye passeth
Rathere than the ryche,
Thauh thei renne at ones.
For yf a marchaunt and a messager
Metten to-gederes,
For the parcels of hus paper
And other pryvey dettes,
Wol lette hym as ich leyve
The lengthe of a myle;
The messager doth namore
Bote hus mouth telleth,
Hus lettere and hus ernde sheweth,
And is anon delyvered;
And thauh thei wende by the wey
Tho two to-gederes.
Thauh the messager made hus wey
Amyde the whete,
Wole no wys man wroth be,
Ne hus wed take,
Ys non haiwarde y-hote
Hus wed for to take.
''Necessitas non habet legem.''
Ac yf the marchaunt make hus way
Overe menne cornne,
And the haywarde happe
With hym for to mete,
Other hus hatt, other hus hed,
Other elles hus gloves,
The merchaunt mot for-go,
Other moneys of huse porse,
And yut be lett, as ich leyve,
For the lawe asketh
Marchauns for here merchandise
In meny place to tullen.
Yut thauh thei wenden on wey
As to Wynchestre fayre,
The marchaunt with hus marchaundise
May nat go so swythe
As the messager may,
Ne with so mochel ese.
For that on bereth bote a boxe,
A brevet therynne,
Ther the marchaunt ledeth a male
With meny kynne thynges;
And dredeth to be ded therefore,
And he in derke mete
With robbours and with revers
That riche men despoilen,
Ther the messager is ay murye,
Hus mouthe ful of songes,
And leyveth for hus letters
That no wight wol hym greve.
Ac yut myghte the marchaunt
Thorgh monye and other yeftes
Have hors and hardy men,
Thauh he mette theoves,
Wolde non suche asailen hym
For hem that hym folweth,
As safliche passe as the messager,
And as sone at hus hostel.
Ye, wyten wel, ye wyse men,
What this is to mene.
The marchaunt is no more to mene
Bote men that ben ryche
Aren acountable to Crist
And to the kyng of hevene,
That holden mote the heye weye,
Evene ten hestes,
Bothe lovye and lene,
The leele and the unleele,
And have reuthe, and releve
With hus grete richesse
By hus power alle manere men
In meschief y-falle,
Fynde beggars bred,
Backes for the colde,
Tythen here goodes tryweliche,
A tol as hit semeth
That oure Lord loketh after
Of eche a lyf that wyneth,
Withoute wyles other wrong,
Other wommen atte stuwes,
And yut more, to make pees,
And quyte menne dettes,
Bothe spele and spare
To spene upon the needful,
As Crist self comandeth
To alle Cristene puple.
''Alter alterius onera porta.''
The messager aren the mendinans
That lyveth by menne almesse,
Beth nat y-bounde, as beeth the riche,
To bothe the two lawes,
To lene and to lere,
Ne lentenes to faste,
And other pryvey penaunces
The wiche the preest wol wel,
That the law yeveth leve
Suche lowe folke to be excused,
As none tythes to tythen,
Ne clothe the nakede,
Ne in enquestes to come,
Ne contumax thauh he worthe
Halyday other holy eve
Hus mete to deserve;
For yf he loveth and byleyveth
As the lawe techeth,
''Qui crediderit et baptizatus fuerit, etc.''
Telleth the lord a tale,
As a triwe messager,
And sheweth by seel and suthe by lettere
With wat lord he dwelleth,
Kneweleche hym crystene
And of holy churche byleyve,
Ther is no lawe, as ich leyve,
Wol let hym the gate,
Ther God is gatwarde hymself
And eche a gome knoweth.
The porter of pure reuthe
May parforme the lawe
In that he wilneth and wolde
Ech wight as hemself;
For the wil is as muche worth
Of a wretche beggere
As al that the ryche may reyme
And ryght fulliche dele,
And as much mede
For a myte that he offreth,
As the riche man for al is moneye,
And more, as by the Godspel:
''Amen dico vobis quia hæc vidua paupercula, etc.''
So that povre pacient
Is parfitest lif of alle,
And alle parfit preestes
To poverte sholde drawe.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 11#vs7128|7128]]{{anchor|notevs7128}}. Matth. xvii, 20 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7131|7131]]{{anchor|notevs7131}}. Psal. xxxiii, 11 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7141|7141]]{{anchor|notevs7141}}. Psal. xlii, 1 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7191|7191]]{{anchor|notevs7191}}. James ii, 10 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7194|7194]]{{anchor|notevs7194}}. ''over-skipperis.'' Those who skipped over words in reading or chanting the service of the church. The following distich points out the classes of defaulters in this respect{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ecclesiæ tres sunt qui servitium maie fallunt;
Momylers, for-scyppers, ovre-lepers, non bene psallunt.
{{gap|3.5em}}''Reliq. Antiq.'' p. 90. ''Poems of Walter Mapes'', p. 148.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


A still more numerous list of such offenders is given in the following lines from MS. Lansdowne, 762, fol. 101, v{{sup|o}}{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Hii sunt qui Psalmos corrumpunt nequitur almos:
Jangler cum jasper, lepar, galper quoque, draggar,
Momeler, for-skypper, for-reynner, sic et over-leper,
Fragmina verborum Tutivillus colligit horum.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Tutivillus was the popular name of one of the fiends (see Towneley Mysteries, pp. 310, 319; Reliq. Antiq. p. 257). According to an old legend, a hermit walking out met one of the devils bearing a large sack, very full, under the load of which he seemed to labour. The hermit asked him what he carried in his sack. He answered that it was filled with the fragments of words which the clerks had skipped over or mutilated in the performance of the service, and that he was carrying them to hell to be deposited among the stores there.

[[../Passus 11#vs7195|7195]]{{anchor|notevs7195}}. Psal. xlvi, 7, 8. 

[[../Passus 11#vs7264|7264]]{{anchor|notevs7264}}. ''Briddes I biheld.'' A similar sentiment is expressed in the following parallel passage of a modern poet{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
But most of all it wins my admiration
To view the structure of this little work—
A bird's nest. Mark it well, within, without,
No tool had he that wrought, no knife to cut,
No nail to fix, no bodkin to insert,
No glue to join; his little beak was all:
And yet how neatly finished! What nice hand,
With every implement and means of art,
And twenty years' apprenticeship to boot,
Could make me such another? Fondly then
We boast of excellence, where noblest skill
Instinctive genius foils.—''Hurdis.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 11#vs7342|7342]]{{anchor|notevs7342}}. Ecclesiasticus xi, 9 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7344|7344]]{{anchor|notevs7344}}. Instead of ll. 7344-7363, Whitaker's text has the following passage{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
'Ho suffreth more than God?' quath he,
'No gome, as ich leyve.
He myght amende in a mynt while
Al that amys stondes.
Ac he suffreth, in ensaumple
That we sholde all suffren.
Ys no vertue so feyr
Of value ne of profit,
As ys suffraunce, soveraynliche,
So hit be for Godes love,
And so wittnesseth the wyse,
And wysseth the Frenshe,
''Bele vertue est suffraunce,''
{{gap|1.4em}}''Mal dire est petite venjaunce;''
{{gap|1.4em}}''Bien dire e bien suffrer''
{{gap|1.4em}}''Fait ly suffrable à bien vener.''
For-thi.' quath Reson, 'Ich rede the,
Rewele thi tonge evere;
And er thow lacke eny lyf,
Loke ho is to preise.
For is no creature under Cryst,
That can hymselve make;
And yf cristene creatures
Couthen make hemselve,
Eche lede wolde be lacles,
Leyf thow non othere.
Man was mad of suche matere,
He may nat wel asterte,
That som tymes hym tit
To folwen hus kynde.
Caton acordeth herwith:
''Nemo sine crimine vivit.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 11#vs7347|7347]]{{anchor|notevs7347}}. Genes. i, 31 .

[[../Passus 11#vs7363|7363]]{{anchor|notevs7363}}. Cato, Distich. i, 5.

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Si vitam inspicias hominum, si denique mores,
Quum culpent alios, nemo sine crimine vivit.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


It may be observed here, that Whitaker, in his note on this passage, has very much misunderstood Tyrwhitt (in Chaucer, [[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Miller#3227|Cant. T. 3227]]), in making him the authority for calling the author of the ''Disticha de Moribus'' an obscure French writer. Tyrwhitt says that the mode in which Chaucer spells his name (Caton) seems to show that the French translation was more read than the Latin original. The same observation would apply to the present poem: but I am very doubtful how far it is correct. The Distiches of Cato were translated into English, French, German, &amp;c., and were extremely popular. The author of these Distiches, Dionysius Cato, is supposed to have lived under the Antonines, and has certainly no claim to the title of ''an obscure French writer''.

[[../Passus 12#vs7441|7441]]{{anchor|notevs7441}}-[[../Passus 12#vs7642|7642]]. Instead of these lines, Whitaker has the following{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And wissede the ful ofte
What Dowel was to mene,
And counsailede the, for Cristes sake,
No creature to bygyle,
Nother to lye nor to lacke,
Ne lere that is defendid,
Ne to spille speche,
As to speke an ydel;
And no tyme to tene,
Ne trywe thyng to teenen;
Lowe the to lyve forth
In the lawe of holy churche,
Thenne dost thow wel, withoute drede,
Ho can do bet no forse.
Clerkes that connen al, ich hope,
Thei con do bettere;
Ac hit suffuseth to be saved,
And to be suche as ich tauhte:
Ac for to lovye and lene,
And lyve wel and byleyve,
Ys y-calid ''Caritas'',
Kynde-love in English,
And that is Dobet, yf eny suche be,
A blessed man that helpeth,
And pees be and pacience,
And povre withoute defaute.
''Beatius est dare quam petere.''
As catel and kynde witt
Encombre ful menye,
Woo is hym that hem weldeth,
Bote he hym wel dispeyne.
''Scientes et non facientes variis flagellis vapulabunt.''
Ac comunliche connynge
And unkynde rychesse,
As lorels to be lordes,
And lewede men techeres,
And holy churche horen help,
Averous and coveytous,
Droweth up Dowel,
And destruyeth Dobest.
Ac grace is a gras therfore
To don hem eft growe;
Ac grace groweth nat,
Til God wil gynne reyne,
And wokie thorwe goode werkes
Wikkede hertes;
Ac er suche a wil wol wexe,
God hymself worcheth,
And send forth seint espirit
To don love sprynge.
''Spiritus ubi vult spirat, etc.''
So grace withoute grace
Of God and of good werkes,
May nat bee, bee thow siker,
Thauh we bid evere.
Cleregie cometh bote of siht,
And kynd witt of sterres,
As to be bore other bygete
In suche constellacion
That wit wexeth therof,
And othere wordes bothe.
''Vultus hujus sæculi sunt subjecti vultibus cœlestibus.''
So grace is a gyfte of God,
And kynde witt a chaunce,
And cleregie and connyng of kynde
Wittes techynge;
And yut is cleregie to comende
Fore Cristes love more,
Than eny connynge of kynde witt,
Bote cleregie hit rewele.
For Moyses wutnesseth that God wrot
In stoon with hus fynger,
Lawe of love owre Lorde wrot,
Long ere Crist were;
And Crist cam and confermede,
And holy-churche made,
And in sond a sygne wrot,
And seide to the Jewes,
'That seeth hym synneles,
Cesse nat, ich hote,
To stryke with stoon other with staf
This strompett to dethe.'
''Qui vestrum sine peccato est, etc.''
For-thi ich consaily alle Cristene
Cleregie to honoure, etc.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7453|7453]]{{anchor|notevs7453}}. Luke xii, 38 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7461|7461]]{{anchor|notevs7461}}. Heb. xii, 6 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7464|7464]]{{anchor|notevs7464}}. Psalm xxii, 4 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7470|7470]]{{anchor|notevs7470}}. ''makynges.'' [[../Passus 12#vs7483|7483]]{{anchor|notevs7483}}. ''make.''—There is a curious analogy between the Greek and the Teutonic languages in the name given to the poet—the Greek {{Polytonic|{{Tooltip|texttip=poiêtês|target=ποιήτης}}}} (from {{Polytonic|{{Tooltip|texttip=poiein|target=ποιεῖν}}}}), the Anglo-Saxon ''scóp'' (from ''sceopan'', to make or create), and the Middle-English ''maker'', preserved in the later Scottish ''makkar'' (also applied to a poet), have all the same signification. In the Neo-Latin tongues a different, though somewhat analogous, word was used: the French and Anglo-Norman ''trouvère'', and the Provençal ''trobador'', signify a finder or inventor.

[[../Passus 12#vs7484|7484]]{{anchor|notevs7484}}. Catonis Distich. iii, 5.

[[../Passus 12#vs7500|7500]]{{anchor|notevs7500}}. 1 Cor. xiii, 13 . Nunc autem manent fides, spes, charitas, tria hæc: major autem horum est charitas.

[[../Passus 12#vs7528|7528]]{{anchor|notevs7528}}, &amp;c. ''Aristotle'', ''Ypocras'', and ''Virgile''.—These three names were the great representatives of ancient science and literature in the middle ages. Aristotle represented philosophy, in its most general sense; Virgil represented literature in general, and more particularly the ancient writers who formed the ''grammar'' course of scholastic learning, whether verse or prose; Ypocras, or Hippocrates, represented medicine. They are here introduced to illustrate the fact that men of science and learning, as well as warriors and rich men, experience the vicissitudes of fortune.

[[../Passus 12#vs7534|7534]]{{anchor|notevs7534}}. ''Felice.'' Perhaps this name is only introduced for the sake of alliteration.

[[../Passus 12#vs7536|7536]]{{anchor|notevs7536}}. ''Rosamounde.'' I suppose the reference is to &quot;fair Rosamond.&quot;

[[../Passus 12#vs7554|7554]]{{anchor|notevs7554}}. Luc. vi, 38 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7567|7567]]{{anchor|notevs7567}}. John iii, 8 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7572|7572]]{{anchor|notevs7572}}. John iii, 11 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7582|7582]]{{anchor|notevs7582}}. John iii, 8 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7600|7600]]{{anchor|notevs7600}}. ''thorugh caractes.'' It was the popular belief in the middle ages, that while the Jews were accusing the woman taken in adultery, Christ wrote with his staff on the ground the sins of the accusers, and that when they perceived this they dropped their accusation in confusion at finding that their own guilt was known. See this point curiously illustrated in Mr. Halliwell's Coventry Mysteries, pp. 220, 221. These are the ''characters'' alluded to in Piers Ploughman.

[[../Passus 12#vs7624|7624]]{{anchor|notevs7624}}. Luke vi, 37 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7701|7701]]{{anchor|notevs7701}}. 1 Cor. iii, 19 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7709|7709]]{{anchor|notevs7709}}. Luke ii, 15 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7714|7714]]{{anchor|notevs7714}}. Matth. ii, 1 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7721|7721]]{{anchor|notevs7721}}. Luke ii, 7 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7779|7779]]{{anchor|notevs7779}}. Psalm xxxi, 1 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7795|7795]]{{anchor|notevs7795}}. Luke vi, 39 . The ignorance and inefficiency of the parish priests appear to have become proverbial in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. In the latter century a canon of Lilleshul in Shropshire, named John Myrk, or Myrkes, composed an English poem, or rather metrical treatise, on their duties, which he commences by applying to them this same aphorism of our Saviour{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
God seyth hymself, as wryten we fynde,
That whenne the blynde ledeth the blynde,
Into the dyche they fallen boo,
For they ne sen whare by to go.
So faren prestes now by dawe,
They beth blynde in Goddes lawe, etc.
{{gap|11.55em}}''MS. Cotton. Claud.'' A. II.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


It had previously been applied in the same manner to the parish priests by the author of a long French poem (apparently written in England in the fourteenth century) entitled ''Le Miroir de l'Ome'' (Speculum Hominis), as follows{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Dieus dist, et c'est tout verité,
Qe si l'un voegle soit mené
D'un autre voegle, tresbucher
Falt ambedeux en la fossée.
C'est un essample comparé
As fols curetz, qui sanz curer
Ne voient pas le droit sentier,
Dont font les autres forsvoier,
Qui sont après leur trace alé.
Car fol errant ne puet quider,
Ne cil comment nous puet saner,
Qui mesmes est au mort naufré.
{{gap|1.4em}}''MS. in the possession of Mr. J. Russell Smith.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The following picture of the corrupt manners of the parish priests at this time is extracted from a much longer and more minute censure in the same poem{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Des fols curetz auci y a,
Qui sur sa cure demourra
Non pour curer, mais q'il sa vie
Endroit le corps plus easera.
Car lors ou il bargaignera
Du seculiere marchandie,
Dont sa richesce multeplie;
Ou il se donne à leccherie,
Du quoy son corps delitera;
Ou il se prent à venerie,
Qant duist chanter sa letanie,
Au bois le goupil huera.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7802|7802]]{{anchor|notevs7802}}. Psal. xv, 5 . We might be led to suppose that this was the &quot;neck verse&quot; in the time of Piers Ploughman. In later times the text which was given to read to those who claimed the benefit of clergy is said to have been the beginning of Psal. lv, ''Miserere mei, &amp;c.'' 

[[../Passus 12#vs7840|7840]]{{anchor|notevs7840}}. Eccl. v, 5 .

[[../Passus 12#vs7846|7846]]{{anchor|notevs7846}}. ''Trojanus.'' See the [[#notevs6859|note]] on line 6859.

[[../Passus 12#vs7854|7854]]{{anchor|notevs7854}}. Matth. xvi, 27 . Filius enim hominis venturus est in gloria Patris sui cum angelis suis: et tunc reddet unicuique secundum opera ejus.

[[../Passus 12#vs7915|7915]]{{anchor|notevs7915}}. ''his flessh is foul flessh.'' Yet in spite of the &quot;foulness&quot; of its flesh, the peacock was a very celebrated dish at table. For an account of the use made of the peacock in feasts, see Le Grand d'Aussy, Histoire de la Vie privée des Français, tom. i, pp. 299-301, and 361. In the Romance of Mahomet, 13th century, it is said of Dives—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Et dou Riche qui ''tant poon''
''Englouti'' et tant bon poisson,
Tante piéche de venison,
Et but bon vin par grant delit, &amp;c.
{{gap|6.65em}}''Roman de Mahommet'', l. 301.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7944|7944]]{{anchor|notevs7944}}. ''Avynet.'' In the 14th and 15th centuries, as any grammar was called a ''Donet'', because the treatise of Donatus was the main foundation of them all, so, from Esop and Avienus from whom the materials were taken, any collection of fables was called an ''Avionet'' or an ''Esopet''. The title of one of these collections in a MS. of the Bibl. du Roi at Paris is, ''Compilacio Ysopi alata cum Avionetto, cum quibusdam addicionibus et moralitatibus''. (''Robert, Fabl. Inéd. Essay'', p. clxv.) Perhaps the reference in the present case is to the fable of the Peacock who complained of his voice, the 39th in the collection which M. Robert calls ''Ysopet'', in the morality to which are the following lines{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Les riches conteront
Des biens qu'il aront
En ce siecle conquis.
Cil qui petit ara,
De petit contera
Au Roy de paradis.
Qui vit en povreté,
Sans point d'iniquité,
Moult ara grant richesse
Es cieux, en paradis,
O dieux et ses amis
Seront joyeux et aise.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7961|7961]]{{anchor|notevs7961}}. Whitaker's text reads here{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thus Porfirie and Plato,
And poetes menye,
Lykneth in here logyk
The leeste fowel oute;
And whether hii be saf other nat saf
The sothe wot not clergie,
Ne of Sortes ne of Salamon
No scripture can telle,
Wether thei be in helle other in hevene,
Other Aristotle the wise.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7961|7961]]. ''Aristotle, the grete clerk.'' From the eleventh to the sixteenth centuries the influence of Aristotle's writings in the schools was all-powerful. It was considered almost an impiety to go against his authority. He was indeed &quot;the great clerk.&quot;

[[../Passus 12#vs7967|7967]]{{anchor|notevs7967}}. ''Sortes.'' I suppose this is an abbreviated form of the name Socrates. It occurs again in one of the poems printed among the Latin Poetry attributed to Walter Mapes (Camden Society's Publication), which has the following lines{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Adest ei bajulus cui nomen Gnato,
Præcedebat logicum gressu fatigato,
Dorso ferens sarcinam ventre tensus lato,
Plenam vestro dogmate, o ''Sortes et Plato''.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 12#vs7987|7987]]{{anchor|notevs7987}}. 1 Peter iv, 18 .

[[../Passus 12#vs8015|8015]]{{anchor|notevs8015}}. Psalm xxii, 4 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8073|8073]]{{anchor|notevs8073}}. ''a maister.'' This word was generally used in the scholastic ages in a restricted sense, to signify one who had taken his degrees in the schools—a master of arts.

[[../Passus 13#vs8103|8103]]{{anchor|notevs8103}}. Luke x, 7 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8133|8133]]{{anchor|notevs8133}}-[[../Passus 13#vs8137|8137]]{{anchor|notevs8137}}. These are the indications of different Psalms. Psalm li  begins with the words, ''Miserere mei, Deus'', secundum magnam misericordiam tuam. The thirty-first Psalm  commences with the words, ''Beati quorum'' remissæ sunt iniquitates, ''et quorum tecta sunt peccata''. ''Beatus vir'', is the beginning of Psalm i . The fifth verse of Psalm xxxi  contains the words ''Dixi: Confitebor'' adversum me injustitiam meam Domino.

[[../Passus 13#vs8141|8141]]{{anchor|notevs8141}}. Psalm xxxi, 6 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8145|8145]]{{anchor|notevs8145}}. Psalm l, 19 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8153|8153]]{{anchor|notevs8153}}. Isaiah v, 22 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8155|8155]]{{anchor|notevs8155}}. Whitaker's text has—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And ete meny sondry metes,
Mortrews and poddynges,
Braun and blod of the goos,
Bacon and colhopes.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The second Trin. Coll. MS. has—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And sette many sundry metis,
Mortreux and puddynges,
Braun and blood of gees,
Bacoun and colopis.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 13#vs8167|8167]]{{anchor|notevs8167}}. 2 Corinth. xi, 24 , 25, 27.

[[../Passus 13#vs8173|8173]]{{anchor|notevs8173}}, [[../Passus 13#vs8180|8180]]{{anchor|notevs8180}}. 2 Cor. xi, 26 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8202|8202]]{{anchor|notevs8202}}. ''Mahoun.'' Mahoun was the middle-age name of Mohammed, and in the popular writers was often taken in the mere sense of an idol or pagan deity.

[[../Passus 13#vs8204|8204]]{{anchor|notevs8204}}. ''justly wombe.'' MS. Trin. Coll. 2.

[[../Passus 13#vs8225|8225]]{{anchor|notevs8225}}. ''in a frayel.'' Whitaker's text has ''in a forel'', which he explains by &quot;a wicker basket.&quot; The second Trin. Coll. MS. has also ''in a forell''. ''Forel'' is the Low-Latin ''forellus'', a bag, sack, or purse: a ''frayel'' (''fraellum'') was a little wicker basket, such as were used for carrying figs or grapes.

[[../Passus 13#vs8273|8273]]{{anchor|notevs8273}}. Matth. v, 19 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8292|8292]]{{anchor|notevs8292}}. Psalm xiv, 1 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8368|8368]]{{anchor|notevs8368}}. 1 John iv, 18 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8416|8416]]{{anchor|notevs8416}}. Luke xix, 8 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8418|8418]]{{anchor|notevs8418}}. Luke xxi, 1-4.

[[../Passus 13#vs8444|8444]]{{anchor|notevs8444}}. ''Surré.'' Syria.

[[../Passus 13#vs8474|8474]]{{anchor|notevs8474}}. ''a mynstrall.'' The description of the minstrel given here is very curious. For a sketch of the character of this profession see Mr. Shaw's &quot;Dresses and Decorations of the Middle Ages;&quot; and for more enlarged details of the history of the craft the reader may consult the Introduction to Percy's Reliques, and Chappell's History of National Airs.

[[../Passus 13#vs8518|8518]]{{anchor|notevs8518}}. ''a pardon with a peis of leed.'' The papal bulls, &amp;c., had seals of lead, instead of wax.

[[../Passus 13#vs8526|8526]]{{anchor|notevs8526}}. Marc. xvi, 17 , 18.

[[../Passus 13#vs8541|8541]]{{anchor|notevs8541}}. Acts iii, 6 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8554|8554]]{{anchor|notevs8554}}. Whitaker's text omits all that follows here to l. 8958 of our text, entering very abruptly upon the subject there treated. Some of the intervening matter had already been inserted in other places in Whitaker's text. See our notes on ll. [[#notevs2846|2846]] and [[#notevs3030|3030]].

[[../Passus 13#vs8567|8567]]{{anchor|notevs8567}}. ''cart ... with breed fro Stratforde.'' Stratford-at-Bow is said to have been famous in old times for its numerous bakers, who supplied a great part of the metropolis. Stowe, in his Survey of London, p. 159 (who appears to have altered the text of Piers Ploughman to suit his own calculation, for all the manuscripts and printed editions I have collated give &quot;twice ''twenty'' and ten&quot;), observes, &quot;And because I have here before spoken of the bread carts comming from Stratford at the Bow, ye shall understand that of olde time the bakers of breade at Stratford were allowed to bring dayly (except the Sabbaoth and principall feast) diverse long cartes laden with bread, the same being two ounces in the pennie wheate loafe heavier than the penny wheate loafe baked in the citie, the same to be solde in Cheape, three or foure carts standing there, betweene Gutherans lane and Fausters lane ende, one cart on Cornehill, by the conduit, and one other in Grasse streete. And I have reade that in the fourth yere of Edward the second, Richard Reffeham being maior, a baker named John of Stratforde, for making bread lesser than the assise, was with a fooles whoode on his head, and loaves of bread about his necke, drawne on a hurdle through the streets of this citie. Moreover in the 44. of Edward the third, John Chichester being maior of London, I read in the visions of Pierce Plowman, a booke so called, as followeth. ''There was a careful commune when no cart came to towne with baked bread from Stratford: tho gan beggers weepe, and workemen were agast, a little this will be thought long in the date of our Dirte, in a drie Averell a thousand and three hundred, twise thirtie and ten, &amp;c.'' I reade also in the 20. of Henrie the eight, Sir James Spencer being maior, six bakers of Stratford were merced in the Guildhall of London, for baking under the size appoynted. These bakers of Stratford left serving of this citie, I know not uppon what occasion, about 30 yeares since.&quot;

[[../Passus 13#vs8572|8572]]{{anchor|notevs8572}}. ''a drye Aprill.'' This is without doubt the dry season placed by Fabyan in the year 1351, which, as he describes it, began with the month of April. The difference of the date arises probably from a different system of computation. Fabian says, &quot;In the sommer of this xxvii yeare, it was so drie that it was many yeres after called the drie sommer. For from the latter ende of March, till the latter ende of Julye, fell lytle rayne or none, by reason whereof manye inconveniences ensued.&quot;

[[../Passus 13#vs8576|8576]]{{anchor|notevs8576}}. ''Whan Chichestre was maire.'' According to Fabyan, John Chichester was mayor only once, in 1368, 1369, which was the period of the &quot;thirde mortalytie.&quot; The other authorities seem to agree in giving this as the year of Chichester's mayoralty. He may perhaps have been mayor more than once. See {{sc|Introduction}}.

[[../Passus 13#vs8645|8645]]{{anchor|notevs8645}}. Galat. i, 10 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8685|8685]]{{anchor|notevs8685}}. Psalm x, 7 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8707|8707]]{{anchor|notevs8707}}, [[../Passus 13#vs8708|8708]]{{anchor|notevs8708}}. The two persons mentioned here (the shoemaker of Southwark and dame Emma of Shoreditch) were probably eminent sorcerers and fortune-tellers of the time.

[[../Passus 13#vs8769|8769]]{{anchor|notevs8769}}-[[../Passus 13#vs8778|8778]]. To understand fully this passage, it must be borne in mind that the corn lands were not so universally hedged as at present, and that the portions belonging to different persons were separated only by a narrow furrow, as is still the case in some of the uninclosed lands in Cambridgeshire.

[[../Passus 13#vs8812|8812]]{{anchor|notevs8812}}. ''Brugges.'' Bruges was the great mart of continental commerce during the thirteenth, fourteenth, and fifteenth centuries.

[[../Passus 13#vs8813|8813]]{{anchor|notevs8813}}. ''Pruce-lond''—Prussia, which was then the farthest country in the interior of Europe with which a regular trade was carried on by the English merchants.

[[../Passus 13#vs8827|8827]]{{anchor|notevs8827}}. Matth. vi, 21 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8858|8858]]{{anchor|notevs8858}}. Luke vi, 25 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8879|8879]]{{anchor|notevs8879}}. Psalm ci, 7 .

[[../Passus 13#vs8891|8891]]{{anchor|notevs8891}}. ''a lady of sorwe.'' The old printed edition has a ''laye of sorow''.

[[../Passus 14#vs8900|8900]]{{anchor|notevs8900}}. Whitaker has no division here, but continues the previous ''passus'', and omits many lines and has many variations in what follows.

[[../Passus 14#vs8903|8903]]{{anchor|notevs8903}}. ''I slepe therinne o nyghtes.'' This passage is curious, because at the time the poem was written, it was the custom for all classes of society to go to bed quite naked, a practice which is said to have been not entirely laid aside in the sixteenth century. We see constant proofs of this practice in the illuminations of old manuscripts. The following memorial lines are written in the margin of a MS. of the thirteenth century{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Ne be thi winpil nevere so jelu ne so stroutende,
Ne thi faire tail so long ne so trailende,
That tu ne schalt at evin al kuttid bilevin,
And tou schalt to bedde gon so nakid as tou were [borin].
{{gap|9.8em}}''MS. Cotton. Cleop. C.'' VI, fol. 22, r{{sup|o}}.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


In the Roman de la Violette, the old nurse expresses her astonishment that her young mistress should retain her chemise when she goes to bed{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Et quant elle son lit fait a,
Sa dame apiele, si se couche
Nue en chemise en la couche;
C'onques en trestoute sa vie
La biele, blonde, l'escavie,
Ne volt demostrer sa char nue.
La vielle en est au lit venue,
Puis li a dit: 'Dame, j'esgart
Une chose, se Dex me gart,
Dont je sui molt esmervillie
C'onques ne vous vi despoillie,
Et si vous ai vij. ans gardée;
Molt vous ai souvent esgardée
Que vo chemise ne sachiés!'
{{gap|6.3em}}''Rom. de la Viol.'' l. 577.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The lady explains her conduct by stating that she has a mark on the breast which she had promised that no one should ever see.

[[../Passus 14#vs8906|8906]]{{anchor|notevs8906}}. Luke xiv, 20 .

[[../Passus 14#vs8950|8950]]{{anchor|notevs8950}}. ''noon heraud ne harpour.'' Robes and other garments were among the most usual gifts bestowed upon minstrels and heralds by the princes and great barons. See before, ll. [[../Passus 13#vs8480|8480]], [[../Passus 13#vs8481|8481]].

[[../Passus 14#vs8970|8970]]{{anchor|notevs8970}}. Matth. vi, 25 , 26.

[[../Passus 14#vs8999|8999]]{{anchor|notevs8999}}. John xiv, 13 ; xv, 16. Matth. iv, 4 .

[[../Passus 14#vs9037|9037]]{{anchor|notevs9037}}. Psalm cxliv, 16 .

[[../Passus 14#vs9039|9039]]{{anchor|notevs9039}}. ''fourty wynter.'' During the forty years that the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness, they did not apply themselves to agriculture.

[[../Passus 14#vs9049|9049]]{{anchor|notevs9049}}. ''Sevene slepe.'' The legend of the seven sleepers was remarkably popular during the middle ages.

[[../Passus 14#vs9101|9101]]{{anchor|notevs9101}}. Psalm xxxi. 1.

[[../Passus 14#vs9176|9176]]{{anchor|notevs9176}}. Psalm lxxv, 6 .

[[../Passus 14#vs9178|9178]]{{anchor|notevs9178}}. Psalm lxxii, 20 . Whitaker's ''Passus sextus de Dowel'' ends with this quotation.

[[../Passus 14#vs9317|9317]]{{anchor|notevs9317}}. Both in the Vision of Piers Ploughman, and in the Creed, there are frequent expressions of indignation at the extravagant expenditure in painting the windows of the abbeys and churches. It must not be forgotten that a little later the same feeling as that exhibited in these satires led to the destruction of many of the noblest monuments of medieval art.

[[../Passus 14#vs9344|9344]]{{anchor|notevs9344}}. Mat. xix, 23 , 24.

[[../Passus 14#vs9347|9347]]{{anchor|notevs9347}}. Apocal. xiv, 13 .

[[../Passus 14#vs9352|9352]]{{anchor|notevs9352}}. Matth. v, 3 .

[[../Passus 14#vs9452|9452]]{{anchor|notevs9452}}. Compare the defence of poverty in Chaucer ([[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Wife of Bath#1192|Cant. T. 6774]]){{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Juvenal saith of poverte merily:
The poore man, whan he goth by the way,
Beforn the theves he may sing and play.
''Poverte is hateful good''; and, as I gesse,
A ful gret ''bringer out of besinesse'';
A ''gret amender'' eke ''of sapience'',
To him that taketh it in patience.
Poverte is this although it seme elenge,
''Possession that no wight wol challenge.''
Poverte ful often, whan a man is low,
Maketh his God and eke himself to know:
Poverte a spectakel is, as thinketh me,
Thurgh which he may his veray frendes see.
And therfore, sire, sin that I you not greve,
Of my poverte no more me repreve.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


The definition given in Piers Ploughman is taken from the Dialogues of Secundus, where it is thus expressed:—&quot;Quid est paupertas? Odibile bonum, sanitatis mater, curarum remotio, absque sollicitudine semita, sapientiæ reparatrix, negotium sine damno, intractabilis substantia, possessio absque calumnia, incerta fortuna, sine sollicitudine felicitas.&quot; (MS. Reg. 9 A xiv, fol. 140 v{{sup|o}}.) See also Roger de Hoveden, p. 816, and Vincent de Beauvais, Spec. Hist. lib. x, c. 71.

[[../Passus 14#vs9517|9517]]{{anchor|notevs9517}}. ''the paas of Aultone.'' Whitaker has ''Haultoun'', and says that this pass is Halton &quot;in Cheshire, formerly infamous to a proverb as a haunt of robbers.&quot;

[[../Passus 14#vs9529|9529]]{{anchor|notevs9529}}. ''Cantabit, etc.'' The author has modified, or the scribes have corrupted, the well-known line of Juvenal,

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Cantabit vacuus coram latrone viator.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 15#vs9665|9665]]{{anchor|notevs9665}}. These definitions will be found in Isidore, Etymol. lib. xl, c. 1, and Different, lib. ii, c. 29. They are repeated by Alcuin, De Anim. Rat. N. x, p. 149, ''Anima'' est, dum vivificat; dum contemplatur, ''spiritus'' est; dum sentit, ''sensus'' est; dum sapit, ''animus'' est; dum intelligit, ''mens'' est; dum discernit, ''ratio'' est; dum consentit, ''voluntas'' est; dum recordatur, ''memoria'' est.

[[../Passus 15#vs9708|9708]]{{anchor|notevs9708}}. Prov. xxv, 27 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9740|9740]]{{anchor|notevs9740}}. Epist. ad Rom. xii, 3 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9751|9751]]{{anchor|notevs9751}}. ''the seven synnes.'' The seven deadly sins were—pride, anger, envy, sloth, covetousness, gluttony, and lechery. &quot;Now ben they cleped chiefetaines, for as moche as they be chiefe, and of hem springen alle other sinnes. The rote of thise sinnes than is pride, the general rote of alle harmes. For of this rote springen certain braunches: as, ire, envie, accidie or slouthe, avarice or coveitise, (to commun understonding) glotonie, and lecherie: and eche of thise chief sinnes hath his braunches and his twigges.&quot; Chaucer, {{Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Parson#s23|Persones Tale, p. 40]].

[[../Passus 15#vs9766|9766]]{{anchor|notevs9766}}. Psal. xcvi, 7 ; iv, 3 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9828|9828]]{{anchor|notevs9828}}. ''in Latyn.'' The monks had collections of comparisons, similitudes, proverbs, &amp;c., to be introduced in their sermons, and even when preaching in English they generally quoted them in Latin. This I suppose to be the meaning of the expression here.

[[../Passus 15#vs9918|9918]]{{anchor|notevs9918}}. Matth. xviii, 3 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9934|9934]]{{anchor|notevs9934}}. 1 Corinth. xiii, 4 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9946|9946]]{{anchor|notevs9946}}. 1 Corinth. xiii, 12 .

[[../Passus 15#vs9957|9957]]{{anchor|notevs9957}}. ''a tunicle of Tarse.'' Tarse was the name given to a kind of silk, said to have been brought from a country of that name on the borders of Cathai, or China. Chaucer ([[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Knight#2160|Cant. T. l. 2162]]), describing &quot;the king of Inde,&quot; says—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
His coote armour was of a cloth of Tars,
Cowched of perlys whyte, round and grete.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Ducange (v. ''Tarsicus'') quotes a visitation of the treasury of St. Paul's, London, in 1295, where there is mention of Tunica et dalmatica de ''panno Indico Tarsico'' Besantato de auro, and of a Casula de ''panno Tarsico''.

[[../Passus 15#vs10004|10004]]{{anchor|notevs10004}}. Psal. vi, 7 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10009|10009]]{{anchor|notevs10009}}. Psal. l, 19 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10062|10062]]{{anchor|notevs10062}}. Matth. vi, 16 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10069|10069]]{{anchor|notevs10069}}. ''Edmond and Edward.'' St. Edmund the martyr, king of East Anglia, and king Edward the Confessor.

[[../Passus 15#vs10124|10124]]{{anchor|notevs10124}}. Psal. iv, 9 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10159|10159]]{{anchor|notevs10159}}. ''Antony and Egidie.'' Whitaker has ''Antonie and Ersenie''. St. Antony is well known as the father and patron of monks, and for the persecutions he underwent from the devil. St. Giles, or Egidius, is said to have been a Greek, who came to France about the end of the seventh century, and established himself in a hermitage near the mouth of the Rhone, and afterwards in the neighbourhood of Nismes. Arsenius was a noble Roman who, at the end of the fourth century, retired to Egypt to live the life of an anchoret in the desert.

[[../Passus 15#vs10174|10174]]{{anchor|notevs10174}}. ''after an hynde cride.'' The monkish biographer of St. Giles relates, that he was for some time nourished with the milk of a hind in the forest, and that a certain prince discovered his retreat while hunting in his woods, by pursuing the hind till it took shelter in St. Giles's hermitage.

[[../Passus 15#vs10183|10183]]{{anchor|notevs10183}}. ''Hadde a bird.'' This incident is not found in the common lives of St. Antony.

[[../Passus 15#vs10187|10187]]{{anchor|notevs10187}}. ''Poul.'' Paul was a Grecian hermit, who lived in the tenth century in the wilderness of Mount Latrus, and became the founder of one of the monastic establishments there. He was famous for the rigorous severity of his life.

[[../Passus 15#vs10203|10203]]{{anchor|notevs10203}}. ''Marie Maudeleyne.'' By Mary Magdalen here is meant probably St. Mary the Egyptian, who lived in the fifth century, and who, according to the legend, after having spent her youth in unbridled debauchery, repented in her twenty-ninth year, and lived during the remainder of her life (forty-seven years) in the wilderness beyond the Jordan, without seeing one human being during that time, and sustained only by the precarious food which she found in the desert.

[[../Passus 15#vs10239|10239]]{{anchor|notevs10239}}. Whitaker's text here adds a passage relating to Tobias{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Marie Magdalene
By mores levede and dewes;
Love and leel byleyve
Heeld lyf and soule togedere.

{{gap|0.7em}}Maria Egyptiaca
Eet in thyrty wynter
Bote thre lytel loves,
And love was her souel.
Ich can nat rekene hem ryght now,
Ne reherce here names,
That lyveden thus for oure Lordes love
Meny longe yeres,
Whitoute borwyng other beggyng,
Other the boke lyeth;
And woneden in wildernesse
Among wilde bestes;
Ac dorst no beste byten hem
By daye ne by nyghte,
Bote myldeliche whan thei metten
Maden louh chere,
And feyre byfore tho men
Fauhnede whith the tayles.
Ac bestes brouhte hem no mete,
Bote onliche the fouweles;
In tokenynge that trywe man
Alle tymes sholde
Fynde honeste men in holy men
And other ryghtful peuple.
For wolde never feithful goud
That freres and monkes token
Lyflode of luther wynnynges
In al here lyf tyme;
As wytnesseth holy writt
Whot Thobie deyde
To is wif, whan he was blynde,
Herde a lambe blete,—
'A! wyf, be war,' quath he,
'What ye have here ynne.
Lord leyve,' quath the lede,
'No stole thyng be here!'
''Videte ne furtum sit. Et alibi, Melius est mori quam male vivere.''
This is no more to mene,
Bote men of holy churche
Sholde receyve ryght nauth
Bot that ryght wolde,
And refuse reverences
And raveneres offrynges;
Thenne wolde lordes and ladies
Be loth to agulte,
And to take of here tenaunts
More than treuthe wolde;
And marchauns merciable wolde be,
And men of lawe bothe.
Wold religeouse refuse
Raveneres almesse,
Then Grace sholde growe yut
And grene-leved wexe,
And Charité, that child is now,
Sholde chaufen of hem self,
And comfortye all crystene,
Wold holy churche amende.
Job the parfit patriarch
This proverbe wrot and tauhte,
To makye a man lovye mesure,
That monkes beeth and freeres.
''Nunquam dicit Job, rugiet onager, etc.''
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Throughout this part of the poem, Whitaker's text differs very much in words and phraseology from the one now printed, but it would take up too much space to point out all these variations.

[[../Passus 15#vs10247|10247]]{{anchor|notevs10247}}. Job vi, 5 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10270|10270]]{{anchor|notevs10270}}. 2 Corinth. ix, 9 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10303|10303]]{{anchor|notevs10303}}. These sentences appear to be quotations from the fathers of the Latin Church.

[[../Passus 15#vs10322|10322]]{{anchor|notevs10322}}. ''lussheburwes.'' A foreign coin, much adulterated, common in England in the middle of the fourteenth century. Chaucer ([[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Monk#3149|C. T. 15445]]) uses the word in a very expressive passage{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
This maketh that oure wyfes wol assaye
Religious folk, for thay may bettre paye
Of Venus payementes than may we:
God woot! no ''lusscheburghes'' paye ye.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Among the foreign money, mostly of a base quality, which came into this country in the fourteenth century, the coinage of the counts of Luxemburg, or, as it was then called, Lusenburg (hence called ''lussheburwes'' and ''lusscheburghes''), seems to have been the most abundant, and to have given most trouble. These coins were the subject of legislation in 1346, 1347, 1348, and 1351; so that the grievance must have been at its greatest height at the period to which the poem of Piers Ploughman especially belongs. Many of these coins are preserved, and found in the cabinets of collectors; they are in general very much like the contemporary English coinage, and might easily be taken for it, but the metal is very base.

[[../Passus 15#vs10368|10368]]{{anchor|notevs10368}}. ''Grammer, the ground of al.'' In the scholastic learning of the middle ages, grammar was considered as the first of the seven sciences, and the foundation-stone of all the rest. See my Essay on Anglo-Saxon Literature, introductory to vol. i. of the ''Biographia Britannica Literaria'', p. 72. The importance of grammar is thus stated in the ''Image du Monde'' of Gautier de Metz (thirteenth century){{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Li primeraine des vij. ars,
Dont or n'est pas seus li quars,
A ichest tans, chou est gramaire,
Sans laquele nus ne vaut gaire
Qui à clergie veut aprendre:
Car petit puet sans li entendre.
Gramaires si est fondemens
De clergie et coumenchemens;
Cou est li porte de science,
Par cui on vient à sapience.
De lettres en gramaire escole
Qui ensegne et forme parole,
Soit en Latin ou en Roumans,
Ou en tous langages palans;
Qui bien saroit toute gramaire,
Toute parole saroit faire.
Par parole fist Dius le monde,
Et sentence est parole monde.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 15#vs10398|10398]]{{anchor|notevs10398}}. ''Corpus Christi feeste.'' Corpus Christi day was a high festival of the Church of Rome, held annually on the Thursday after Trinity Sunday, in memory, as was said, of the miraculous confirmation of transubstantiation under pope Urban IV.

[[../Passus 15#vs10418|10418]]{{anchor|notevs10418}}. ''This Makometh.'' This account of Mohammed was the one most popularly current in the middle ages. According to Hildebert, who wrote a life of the pseudo-prophet in Latin verse in the twelfth century, Mohammed was a Christian, skilled in magical arts, who, on the death of the patriarch of Jerusalem, aspired to succeed him{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Nam male devotus quidam baptismate lotus,
{{gap|1.4em}}Plenus perfidia vixit in ecclesia.
&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; . &amp;nbsp;
Nam cum transisset Pater illius urbis, et isset
{{gap|1.4em}}In cœlum subito corpore disposito,
Tunc exaltari magus hic et pontificari
{{gap|1.4em}}Affectans avide; se tamen hæc pavide
Dixit facturum, nisi sciret non nociturum
{{gap|1.4em}}Si præsul fiat, cum Deus hoc cupiat.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


His intrigues being discovered, the emperor drives him away, and in revenge he goes and founds a new sect. The story of the pigeon (which is not in Hildebert) is found in Vincent of Beauvais, Spec. Hist. lib. xxiii, c. 40. This story is said to be founded in truth. Neither of them are found in the Roman de Mahomet (by Alexander du Pont), written in the thirteenth century, and edited by MM. Reinaud and Michel, Paris, 1831, 8vo, a work which contains much information concerning the Christian notions relative to Mohammed in the middle ages.

[[../Passus 15#vs10478|10478]]{{anchor|notevs10478}}. John xvi, 24 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10481|10481]]{{anchor|notevs10481}}, [[../Passus 15#vs10486|10486]]{{anchor|notevs10486}}. Matth. v, 13 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10499|10499]]{{anchor|notevs10499}}. ''Ellevene holy men.'' The eleven apostles who remained after the apostasy of Judas and the crucifixion of their Lord.

[[../Passus 15#vs10550|10550]]{{anchor|notevs10550}}. ''Ne fesauntz y-bake.'' The pheasant was formerly held in the same honour as the peacock (see before the note on l. 7915), and was served at table in the same manner. It was considered one of the most precious dishes. See Le Grand d'Aussy, Hist. de la Vie privée des François, ii, 19. The Miroir de l'Ome (MS. in the possession of Mr. Russell Smith) says (punning) of the luxurious prelates of the fourteenth century,—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Pour le phesant et le bon vin
Le bien-faisant et le divin
L'evesque laist à nonchalure;
Si quiert la coupe et crusequin,
Ainz que la culpe du cristin
Pour corriger et mettre en cure.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 15#vs10553|10553]]{{anchor|notevs10553}}. Matth. xxii, 4 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10581|10581]]{{anchor|notevs10581}}. Mark xvi, 15 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10585|10585]]{{anchor|notevs10585}}. ''So manye prelates.'' [[../Passus 15#vs10699|10699]]{{anchor|notevs10699}}. ''that huppe aboute in Engelond.'' The pope appointed many titular bishops of foreign sees in which, from the nature of circumstances, they could not possibly reside, and who therefore were a burthen upon the church. Some of these prelates appear to have resorted to England, and to have exercised the episcopal functions, consecrating churches, &amp;c. The church of Elsfield, in Oxfordshire, was consecrated by a foreign bishop. (See Kennett's Parochial Antiquities.)

[[../Passus 15#vs10593|10593]]{{anchor|notevs10593}}. John x, 11 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10599|10599]]{{anchor|notevs10599}}. Matth. xx, 4 , 7.

[[../Passus 15#vs10606|10606]]{{anchor|notevs10606}}. Matth. vii, 7 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10617|10617]]{{anchor|notevs10617}}. Galat. vi, 14 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10632|10632]]{{anchor|notevs10632}}. ''That roode thei honoure.'' A cross was the common mark on the reverse of our English money at this period, and for a long time previous to it. The point of satirical wit in this passage of Piers Ploughman appears to be taken from the old Latin rhymes of the beginning of the thirteenth century. See the curious poem ''De Cruce Denarii'', in Walter Mapes, p. 223. Another poem in the same volume (p. 38) speaks thus of the court of Rome{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Nummis in hac curia non est qui non vacet;
''Crux'' placet, rotunditas, et albedo placet.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 15#vs10637|10637]]{{anchor|notevs10637}}. ''Shul torne as templers dide.'' The suppression of the order of the Templars was at this time fresh in people's memories. It was the general belief, and not without some foundation, that the Templars had entirely degenerated from their original sanctity and faithfulness, and that before the dissolution of the order they were addicted to degrading vices and superstitions; and they were accused of sacrificing everything else to their grasping covetousness.

[[../Passus 15#vs10659|10659]]{{anchor|notevs10659}}. ''Whan Constantyn.'' The Christian church began first to be endowed with wealth and power under the emperor Constantine the Great.

[[../Passus 15#vs10649|10649]]{{anchor|notevs10649}}. Luke i, 52 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10695|10695]]{{anchor|notevs10695}}-[[../Passus 20#vs10699|10699]]. Instead of these lines, Whitaker's text has the following{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
And bereth name of Neptalym,
Of Nynyve and Damaske.
For when the holy kynge of hevene
Sende hus sone to eerthe,
Meny myracles he wroughte,
Man for to turne,
In ensample that men sholde
See by sad reyson
That men myghte nat be savede
Bote thorw mercy and grace,
And thorw penaunce and passioun,
And parfyght byleyve;
And bycam a man of a mayde,
And ''metropolitanus''
And baptisede an busshoppede
Whit the blode of hus herte,
Alle that wilnede other wolde
Whit inwhight byleyve hit.
Meny seint sitthe
Suffrede deth alsoo,
For to enferme the faithe
Ful wyde where deyden,
In Inde and in Alisaundrie,
In Ermanye, in Spayne;
An fro mysbyleve
Meny man turnede.
In savacion of mannys saule
Seynt Thomas of Cauntelbury
Among unkynde Cristene
In holy churche was sleye,
And alle holy churche
Honourede for that deyinge:
He is a forbusur to alle busshopes,
And a bryghthe myrour,
And sovereynliche to alle suche
That of Surrye bereth name,
And nat in Engelounde to huppe aboute,
And halewen men auters.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


In the remainder of this passus, Whitaker's text differs much from the one I have printed, but in such a manner that to give here the variations it would be necessary to reprint the whole. In the remainder of the poem, the variations are not great or important, being only such as we always find in different copies of poems which enjoyed considerable popularity.

[[../Passus 15#vs10716|10716]]{{anchor|notevs10716}}. Isai. iii, 7 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10721|10721]]{{anchor|notevs10721}}. Malach. iii, 10 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10733|10733]]{{anchor|notevs10733}}. Luke x, 27 . Diliges Dominum Deum tuum ex toto corde tuo, et ex tota anima tua, et ex omni mente tua, et proximum tuum sicut teipsum.

[[../Passus 15#vs10755|10755]]{{anchor|notevs10755}}. John xi, 43 .

[[../Passus 15#vs10787|10787]]{{anchor|notevs10787}}. ''litlum and litlum'', by little and little, gradually. It is the pure Anglo-Saxon phrase. In the Anglo-Saxon version of Genesis xl, 10 , the Latin ''paulatim'' is rendered by ''lytlum and lytlum''.

[[../Passus 16#vs10844|10844]]{{anchor|notevs10844}}. Psal. xxxvi, 24 .

[[../Passus 16#vs10891|10891]]{{anchor|notevs10891}}. Matth. xii, 32 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11000|11000]]{{anchor|notevs11000}}. Luke i, 38 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11023|11023]]{{anchor|notevs11023}}. Matth. ix, 12 . Mark ii, 17 . Luke v, 31 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11033|11033]]{{anchor|notevs11033}}. Matth. xxvi, 37 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11044|11044]]{{anchor|notevs11044}}. Matth. xi, 18 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11075|11075]]{{anchor|notevs11075}}. Matth. xxi, 13 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11121|11121]]{{anchor|notevs11121}}. Matth. xviii, 7 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11238|11238]]{{anchor|notevs11238}}. Matth. xxvii, 46 , and Mark xv, 34 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11300|11300]]{{anchor|notevs11300}}. Rom. iv, 13 .

[[../Passus 16#vs11322|11322]]{{anchor|notevs11322}}. John i, 29  and 36.

[[../Passus 17#vs11396|11396]]{{anchor|notevs11396}}. Matth. xx, 40.

[[../Passus 17#vs11518|11518]]{{anchor|notevs11518}}, [[../Passus 17#vs11520|11520]]{{anchor|notevs11520}}. ''lo! here silver ... two pens.'' It must be remembered that at this period the mass of the coinage, including pence, halfpence, and farthings, was of silver; copper came into use for the smaller coinage at a later period. Two pence of Edward III would be worth about two shillings of our modern money.

[[../Passus 17#vs11670|11670]]{{anchor|notevs11670}}. John xii, 32.

[[../Passus 17#vs11708|11708]]{{anchor|notevs11708}}. ''tu fabricator omnium.'' This was one of the hymns of the catholic church.

[[../Passus 17#vs11866|11866]]{{anchor|notevs11866}}. Luke xiii, 27 .

[[../Passus 17#vs11883|11883]]{{anchor|notevs11883}}. 1 Corinth. xiii, 1 .

[[../Passus 17#vs11894|11894]]{{anchor|notevs11894}}. Matth. vii, 21 .

[[../Passus 17#vs11998|11998]]{{anchor|notevs11998}}. ''Thre thynges.'' This proverb is frequently quoted by the satirical and facetious writers of the middle ages. Thus in Chaucer ([[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Wife of Bath#278|C. T. 5860]]){{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Thou saist, that droppyng houses, and eek smoke,
And chydyng wyves, maken men to fle
Out of here oughne hous.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


In the poem entitled Golias de Conjuge non ducenda, in Walter Mapes, p. 83, the proverb is alluded to in the following words{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Fumus, et mulier, et stillicidia,
Expellunt hominem a domo propria.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


There was an old French proverbial distich to the same effect,—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Fumée, pluye, et femme sans raison,
Chassent l'homme de sa maison.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 17#vs12040|12040]]{{anchor|notevs12040}}. 2 Corinth. xii, 9.

[[../Passus 18#vs12097|12097]]{{anchor|notevs12097}}. ''to be dubbed.'' These and the following lines contain a continued allusion to the ceremonies of knighthood and tournaments.

[[../Passus 18#vs12106|12106]]{{anchor|notevs12106}}. Psal. cxvii, 26 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12211|12211]]{{anchor|notevs12211}}. Matth. xxvii, 54 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12232|12232]]{{anchor|notevs12232}}, [[../Passus 18#vs12244|12244]]{{anchor|notevs12244}}. ''Longeus ... this blynde bacheler.'' This alludes to one of the many legends which the monks engrafted upon the scripture history. Longeus is said to have been the name of the soldier who pierced the side of Christ with his spear; and it is pretended that he was previously blind from his birth, but that the blood of the Saviour ran down his spear, and a drop of it touching his eye, he was instantly restored to sight, by which miracle he was converted. See, in illustration of this subject, Halliwell's Coventry Mysteries, p. 334; The Towneley Mysteries, p. 321; Jubinal, Mystères inédits du quinzième Siècle, tom. ii, pp. 254-257; &amp;c.

[[../Passus 18#vs12319|12319]]{{anchor|notevs12319}}, [[../Passus 18#vs12418|12418]]{{anchor|notevs12418}}, [[../Passus 18#vs12420|12420]]{{anchor|notevs12420}}. ''Mercy and Truthe, ... Pees ... Rightwisnesse.'' Lydgate seems to have had this passage in his mind, when he described the four sisters in the following lines at the commencement of one of his poems (MS. Harl. 2255, fol. 21){{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Mercy and Trouthe mette on an hih mounteyn
Briht as the sonne with his beemys cleer,
Pees and Justicia walkyng on the pleyn,
And with foure sustryn, moost goodly of ther cheer,
List nat departe nor severe in no maneer,
Of oon accoord by vertuous encrees,
Joyned in charité, pryncessis moost enteer,
Mercy and Trouthe, Rihtwisnesse and Pees.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 18#vs12361|12361]]{{anchor|notevs12361}}. ''a tale of Waltrot.'' This name, like [[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Merchant#1424|Wade in Chaucer]], appears to have been that of a hero of romances and tales, or a personage belonging to the popular superstitions. Perhaps it may be connected with the old German ''Waltschrat'' (''satyrus'', ''pilosus''). See Grimm, Deutsche Mythologie, p. 270.

[[../Passus 18#vs12438|12438]]{{anchor|notevs12438}}. Psal. xxix, 6 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12566|12566]]{{anchor|notevs12566}}. Matth. xiv, 28 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12599|12599]]{{anchor|notevs12599}}. ''a spirit speketh to helle.'' The picture of the &quot;Harrowing of Hell,&quot; which here fol, bears a striking resemblance to the analogous scene in the old Mysteries, particularly in that edited by Mr. Halliwell under this title, 8vo, 1840. Compare the play on the same subject in the Towneley Mysteries, p. 244.

[[../Passus 18#vs12601|12601]]{{anchor|notevs12601}}. Psal. xxiii, 7 , 9.

[[../Passus 18#vs12645|12645]]{{anchor|notevs12645}}, [[../Passus 18#vs12669|12669]]{{anchor|notevs12669}}, [[../Passus 18#vs12676|12676]]{{anchor|notevs12676}}. ''sevene hundred wynter ... thritty wynter ... two and thritty wynter.'' Our Anglo-Saxon forefathers always counted duration of time by ''winters'' and ''nights''; for so many years, they said so many winters, and so many nights for so many days. This form continued long in popular usage, and still remains in our words ''fortnight'' and ''se'nnight''.

[[../Passus 18#vs12663|12663]]{{anchor|notevs12663}}. ''Gobelyn.'' Goblin is a name still applied to a devil. It belongs properly to a being of the old Teutonic popular mythology, a hob-goblin, the &quot;lubber-fiend&quot; of the poet, and seems to be identical with the German ''kobold''. (See Grimm, Deutsche Mythologie, p. 286.) ''Gobelin'' occurs as the name of one of the shepherds in the Mystery of the Nativity, printed by M. Jubinal in his Mystères inédits, vol. ii, p. 71. It occurs as the name of a devil in a song of the commencement of the fourteenth century, Political Songs, p. 238{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Sathanas huere syre
{{gap|0.7em}}Seyde on is sawe,
Gobelyn made is gerner
{{gap|0.7em}}Of gromene mawe.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 18#vs12679|12679]]{{anchor|notevs12679}}. ''to warne Pilates wif.'' This is an allusion to a popular legend prevalent at this time that the devil wished to hinder Christ's crucifixion, and that he appeared to Pilate's wife in a dream, and caused her to beseech her husband not to condemn the Saviour. It was founded on the passage in Matthew xxvii, 19. Sedente autem illo pro tribunali, misit ad eum uxor ejus, dicens: Nihil tibi et justo illi: multa enim passa sum hodie per visum propter eum. The most complete illustration of the passage of Piers Ploughman will be found in Halliwell's Coventry Mysteries, p. 308, &quot;Pilate's Wife's Dream.&quot;

[[../Passus 18#vs12691|12691]]{{anchor|notevs12691}}. ''And now I se wher a soule | Cometh hiderward seillynge, | With glorie, &amp;c.'' With this beautiful passage may be compared a very similar one in the Samson Agonistes of Milton{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
But who is this, what thing of sea or land?
Female of sex it seems,
That so bedeck'd, ornate and gay,
''Comes this way sailing''
Like a stately ship
Of Tarsus, bound for th' isles
Of Javan or Gadire,
With all her bravery on, and tackle trim.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 18#vs12753|12753]]{{anchor|notevs12753}}. ''y-lik a lusard.'' In the illuminations of manuscripts representing the scene of the temptation, the serpent is often figured with legs like a lizard or crocodile, and a human face.

[[../Passus 18#vs12759|12759]]{{anchor|notevs12759}}. Matth. v, 38 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12781|12781]]{{anchor|notevs12781}}. Matth. v, 17 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12801|12801]]{{anchor|notevs12801}}. ''thorugh a tree.'' Some of the medieval legends go still farther, and pretended that the tree from which the wood of the cross was made was descended directly from a plant from the tree in Paradise of which Adam and Eve were tempted to eat the fruit.

[[../Passus 18#vs12805|12805]]{{anchor|notevs12805}}. Psal. vii, 16 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12840|12840]]{{anchor|notevs12840}}. Psal. l, 6 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12876|12876]]{{anchor|notevs12876}}. 2 Corinth. xii, 4 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12886|12886]]{{anchor|notevs12886}}. Psal. cxlii, 2 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12896|12896]]{{anchor|notevs12896}}. ''Astroth.'' This name, as given to one of the devils, occurs in a curious list of actors in the Miracle Play of St. Martin, given by M. Jubinal, in the preface to his Mystères inédits, vol. ii, p. ix. It is similarly used in the Miracle Play of the Martyrdom of St. Peter and St. Paul, Jubinal, ib. vol. i, p. 69. In one of the Towneley Mysteries (p. 246), this name is likewise given to one of the devils{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Calle up ''Astarot'' and Anaballe,
To gyf us counselle in this case.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 18#vs12937|12937]]{{anchor|notevs12937}}. Psal. lxxxiv, 11 .

[[../Passus 18#vs12943|12943]]{{anchor|notevs12943}}. Psal. cxxxii, 1 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13222|13222]]{{anchor|notevs13222}}. 1 Sam. xviii, 7 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13274|13274]]{{anchor|notevs13274}}. Luke xxiv, 46 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13317|13317]]{{anchor|notevs13317}}. John xx, 29 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13375|13375]]{{anchor|notevs13375}}. ''Veni creator spiritus.'' The first line of the hymn at vespers, on the feast of Pentecost.

[[../Passus 19#vs13412|13412]]{{anchor|notevs13412}}. 1 Corinth. xii, 4 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13550|13550]]{{anchor|notevs13550}}. Cato, Distich. 14, lib. ii{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
Esto forti animo cum sis damnatus inique;
Nemo diu gaudet qui judice vincit iniquo.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


[[../Passus 19#vs13789|13789]]{{anchor|notevs13789}}. ''I knew nevere cardynal.'' The contributions levied upon the clergy for the support of the pope's messengers and agents was a frequent subject of complaint in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries.

[[../Passus 19#vs13807|13807]]{{anchor|notevs13807}}. ''At Avynone among the Jewes.'' In the middle ages there was a large congregation of Jews at Avignon, as in most of the principal cities in the south of France. In the civil dissensions which disturbed Italy during this century, the pope was frequently obliged to take shelter at Avignon and other places within the French territory.

[[../Passus 19#vs13825|13825]]{{anchor|notevs13825}}. Matth. v, 45 .

[[../Passus 19#vs13855|13855]]{{anchor|notevs13855}}. Rom. xii, 19 ; Hebr. x, 30 .

[[../Passus 20#vs14142|14142]]{{anchor|notevs14142}}. ''Kynde cessede.'' The lines which follow contain an allusion to the dissipation of manners which followed the pestilence.

[[../Passus 20#vs14191|14191]]{{anchor|notevs14191}}, [[../Passus 20#vs14196|14196]]{{anchor|notevs14196}}. ''Westmynstre Halle ... the Arches.'' The law courts have been held at Westminster from the earliest Anglo-Norman times, it being the king's chief palace. The court of the arches was a very ancient consistory court of the archbishop of Canterbury, held at Bow church in London, which was called St. Mary de Arcubus or St. Mary le Bow, from the circumstance of its having been built on arches.

[[../Passus 20#vs14211|14211]]{{anchor|notevs14211}}. ''leet daggen hise clothes.'' An account of the mode in which the rich fashionable robes of the dandies of the fourteenth century were dagged, or cut in slits at the edges and borders, will be found in any work on costume: it is frequently represented in the contemporary illuminations in manuscripts. Chaucer, in the &quot;[[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Parson#s27|Persones Tale]],&quot; when treating of pride and of the &quot;superfluitee of clothing,&quot; speaks of &quot;the costlewe furring in hir gounes, so moche pounsoning of chesel to maken holes, so moche ''dagging of sheres'',&quot; &amp;c. And again, &quot;if so be that they wolden yeve swiche pounsoned and ''dagged'' clothing to the povre peple, it is not convenient to were for hir estate,&quot; &amp;c. In the Alliterative Poem on the Deposition of Richard II (printed for the Camden Society), p. 21, the clergy is blamed for not preaching against the new fashions in dress{{nowrap|:—}}

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
For wolde they blame the burnes
That broughte newe gysis,
And dryve out ''the dagges''
And alle the Duche cotis.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


Whitaker gives the following singular explanation of this passage:—&quot;''Let dagge hus clothes'', probably, let them fall to the ground, or divested himself of them; for warriors are 'succinct' for battle as well as 'for speed!'&quot;

[[../Passus 20#vs14269|14269]]{{anchor|notevs14269}}. ''A glazene howve.'' I suppose this means that, in return for his gold, Physic gave him a hood of glass, ''i. e.'' a very frail protection for his person.

[[../Passus 20#vs14367|14367]]{{anchor|notevs14367}}. ''of the Marche of Walys.'' Whitaker's text reads, ''of the Marche of Yrelonde''. The clergy of the Welsh border appear, from allusions in other works, to have been proverbial for their ignorance and irregularity of life.

[[../Passus 20#vs14438|14438]]{{anchor|notevs14438}}. Psal. cxlvi, 4 .

[[../Passus 20#vs14444|14444]]{{anchor|notevs14444}}. ''wage menne to werre.'' This is a curious account of the composition of an army in the fourteenth century.

[[../Passus 20#vs14482|14482]]{{anchor|notevs14482}}. Exod. xx, 17 .

[[../Passus 20#vs14511|14511]]{{anchor|notevs14511}}. ''suffre the dede in dette'', ''i. e.'', The friars persuade people to leave to them, under pretence of saving their souls, the property which was due to their creditors, and thus, after their death, their debts remain unpaid.

[[../Passus 20#vs14615|14615]]{{anchor|notevs14615}}, [[../Passus 20#vs14617|14617]]{{anchor|notevs14617}}. ''this lymytour ... he salvede so oure wommen.'' The whole of this passage, taken with what precedes, is an amusing satire upon the limitour. Compare the description of the limitour given by Chaucer in the Canterbury Tales, [[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Prologue#208|ll. 208-271]], who alludes to his kindness for the women. The limitour was a friar licensed to visit and beg within certain limits. His pertinacity and inquisitiveness in visiting, alluded to in the name given him in Piers Ploughman (Sir Penetrans-domos), is admirably satirized by Chaucer, in the opening of the &quot;[[Canterbury Tales (ed. Skeat)/Wife of Bath#857|Wif of Bathes Tale]]:&quot;—

{{left margin|10%|&lt;poem&gt;
In olde dayes of the kyng Arthour,
Of which that Britouns speken gret honour,
Al was this lond fulfilled of fayrie;
The elf-queen, with hir joly compaignye,
Daunced ful oft in many a grene mede.
This was the old oppynyoun, as I rede
I speke of many hundrid yer ago;
But now can no man see noon elves mo.
For now the grete charité and prayeres
Of lymytours and other holy freres,
That sechen every lond and every streem,
As thik as motis in the sonne-beem,
Blesynge halles, chambres, kichenes, and boures,
Citees and burghes, castels hihe, and toures,
Thropes and bernes, shepnes and dayeries,
This makith that ther ben no fayeries:
For ther as wont was to walken an elf,
Ther walkith noon but the lymytour himself,
In undermeles and in morwenynges,
And saith his matyns and his holy thinges,
As he goth in his lymytacioun.
&lt;/poem&gt;}}


{{c|———}}

{{c|NOTES TO THE CREED.}}

[[../Creed#cr65|65]]{{anchor|notecr65}}. ''a Minoure.'' These were the Gray or Franciscan Friars, founded at the beginning of the thirteenth century by St. Francis of Assise. They are supposed to have come to England in 1224, when they settled, first at Canterbury, and afterwards at London.

[[../Creed#cr75|75]]{{anchor|notecr75}}. ''a Carm.'' [[../Creed#cr95|95]]{{anchor|notecr95}}. ''Maries men.'' The Carmelites, or White Friars, pretended to be of great antiquity, and were originally established at Mount Carmel, from whence they were driven by the Saracens about the year 1238. They were brought into England in 1244, and settled first at Alnwick in Northumberland, and at Ailesford in Kent.

About the date (or a little before) of our poem, the Carmelites appear to have been very active in asserting in a boasting manner the superiority of their order over the others. An anecdote told by Fuller (History of Cambridge, p. 113), under the year 1371, affords a curious illustration. &quot;John Stokes, a Dominican, born at Sudbury, in Suffolk, but studying in Cambridge, as champion of his order, fell foul on the Carmelites, chiefly for calling themselves 'The brothers of the Blessed Virgin,' and then by consequence all knew whose uncle they pretend themselves. He put them to prove their pedigree by Scripture, how the kindred came in. In brief, Bale saith, 'he left red notes in the white coats of the Carmelites,' he so belaboured them with his lashing language. But John Hornby a Carmelite (born at Boston in Lincolnshire) undertook him, called by Bale Cornutus, by others Hornet-bee, so stinging his stile. He proved the brothership of his order to the Virgin Mary by visions, allowed true by the infallible popes, so that no good Christian durst deny it.&quot;

[[../Creed#cr130|130]]{{anchor|notecr130}}. ''Freres of the Pye.'' The Fratres de Pica, or Friars of the Pye, are said to have received their name from the circumstance of their wearing their outer garment black and white like a magpie. Very little is known of their history. They are said to have had but one house in England.

[[../Creed#cr143|143]]{{anchor|notecr143}}. ''Robartes men.'' See before the notes on the Vision, [[#notevs88|ll. 88]] and [[#notevs3410|ll. 3410]].

[[../Creed#cr155|155]]{{anchor|notecr155}}. ''miracles of mydwyves.'' The monks had many relics and superstitious practices to preserve and aid women in childbirth. One of the commissioners for the suppression of the monasteries mentions among the relics of a house he had visited, &quot;Mare Magdalens girdell, and yt is wrappyde and coveride with white, sent also with gret reverence to women traveling:&quot; he had previously spoken of &quot;oure Lades gyrdell of Bruton, rede silke, wiche is a solemne reliquie sent to women travelyng wiche shall not miscarie ''in partu''.&quot; (MS. Cotton. Cleop. E. iv, fol. 249.) See the account of a gem, which had a similar virtue, in Matthew Paris's History of the Abbots of St. Albans.

[[../Creed#cr305|305]]{{anchor|notecr305}}. ''the Prechoures.'' The Black Friars, or Dominicans, were founded by St. Dominic, a Spanish monk of the end of the eleventh century. They were called Friars Preachers, because their chief duty was to preach and convert heretics. They came into England in 1221, and had their first houses in Oxford.

[[../Creed#cr327|327]]{{anchor|notecr327}}. ''posternes in privité.'' These private posterns are frequently alluded to in the reports of the Commissioners for the Dissolution of the Monasteries in the reign of Henry VIII. One of them, speaking of the abbey of Langden, says, &quot;Wheras immediatly descendying fro my horse, I sent Bartlett your servant, with all my servantes to circumcept the abbay and surely to kepe ''all bake dorres and startyng hoilles'', and I myself went alone to the abbottes logeying joyning upon the feldes and wode, ''evyn lyke a cony clapper full of startyng hoilles''.&quot; (MS. Cotton. Cleop. E. iv, fol. 127.) Another commissioner (MS. Cotton. Cleop. E. iv, fol. 35), in a letter concerning the monks of the Charter-house in London, says, &quot;These charterhowse monkes wolde be callyde solytary, but to the cloyster dore ther be above xxiiij. keys in the handes of xxiiij. persons, and hit is lyke my letters, unprofytable tayles and tydinges and sumtyme perverse concell commythe and goythe by reason therof. Allso to the buttrey dore ther be xij. sundrye keys in xij. [mens] handes wherin symythe to be small husbandrye.&quot;

[[../Creed#cr351|351]]{{anchor|notecr351}}. ''merkes of merchauntes.'' Their ciphers or badges painted in the windows. For examples, see the note in Warton's History of English Poetry, vol. ii, p. 98, last edition.

[[../Creed#cr481|481]]{{anchor|notecr481}}. ''euelles.'' Perhaps for ''evel-les'', ''i. e.'' without evil.

[[../Creed#cr534|534]]{{anchor|notecr534}}. ''the Austyns.'' The Austin Friars, or Friars Eremites of the order of St. Augustine, came into England about the year 1250. Before the end of the fourteenth century they possessed a great number of houses in this island.

[[../Creed#cr566|566]]{{anchor|notecr566}}. ''the foure ordres.'' The four principal orders of Mendicant Friars. See [[#notevs116|note]] on the Vision, l. 116.

[[../Creed#cr721|721]]{{anchor|notecr721}}. ''harkne at Herdforthe.'' This appears to be an allusion to some event which had recently occurred among the Franciscans at Hertford, or at Hereford: if the latter, perhaps they had been active in the persecution of Walter Brut. [[#notecr1309|See below]], l. 1309.

[[../Creed#cr745|745]]{{anchor|notecr745}}. ''than ther lefte in Lucifere.'' Than there existed in Lucifer, before his fall. See before, the [[#notevs681|note]] on l. 681 of the Vision.

[[../Creed#cr771|771]]{{anchor|notecr771}}. ''couuen''. Probably an error of the old printed edition for ''connen''.

[[../Creed#cr869|869]]{{anchor|notecr869}}. ''lath.'' Perhaps an error of the printer of the first edition for ''lay''.

[[../Creed#cr911|911]]{{anchor|notecr911}}. Matth. vii, 15 .

[[../Creed#cr913|913]]{{anchor|notecr913}}. ''werwolves.'' People who had the power of turning themselves into, or were turned into, wolves. This fearful superstition, which is very ancient, was extremely prevalent in the middle ages. In French they were called ''Loup-garous''. The history of a personage of this kind forms the subject of the Lai de Bisclaveret, by Marie de France. Sir Frederick Madden has published a very remarkable Early-English metrical romance on the subject of &quot;William and the Werwolf.&quot; See on this superstition Grimm's Deutsche Mythologie, pp. 620-622.

[[../Creed#cr954|954]]{{anchor|notecr954}}. ''Golias.'' There is perhaps here an allusion to the famous satire on the Monkish orders entitled Apocalypsis Goliæ, printed among the poems of Walter Mapes.

[[../Creed#cr967|967]]{{anchor|notecr967}}. ''the kynrede of Caym.'' In the popular belief of the middle ages, hob-goblins and evil spirits (which haunted the wilds and the waters) literally, and bad men figuratively, were represented as being descended from the first murderer, Cain. In Old-English poetry, ''Caymes kyn'' is a common epithet for very wicked people. In the Anglo-Saxon romance of Beowulf, the Grendel is said to be of &quot;Cain's kin.&quot;

[[../Creed#cr1051|1051]]{{anchor|notecr1051}}. ''wytnes on Wyclif.'' In the persecutions to which Wycliffe was subjected for his opinions in 1382, his most violent opponents were the Mendicants. He died in 1384, quietly at his living of Lutterworth.

[[../Creed#cr1189|1189]]{{anchor|notecr1189}}. ''a lymytoure.'' See before, the [[#notevs14615|note]] on l. 14615 of the Vision.

[[../Creed#cr1178|1178]]{{anchor|notecr1178}}. ''stumlen in tales.'' An allusion to the idle and superstitious tales with which the monks filled their sermons, in place of simple and sound doctrine.

[[../Creed#cr1309|1309]]{{anchor|notecr1309}}. ''Water Brut.'' Walter Brut (or Bright) was a native of Herefordshire, and was prosecuted by the Bishop of Hereford for heresy in 1393. A long account of his defence will be found in Foxe's Acts and Monuments.

[[../Creed#cr1401|1401]]{{anchor|notecr1401}}. ''Hildegare.'' I suppose this refers to St. Hildegardis, a nun who flourished in the middle of the twelfth century, and who was celebrated among the Roman Catholics as a prophetess. Her prophecies are not uncommon in manuscripts, and they have been printed. Those which relate to the future corruptions in the monkish orders are given in Foxe's Acts and Monuments, book vi, and in other works.

[[Image:Piers Ploughman Decoration 11.png|center|180px|]]</text>
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 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1857
 | portal     = Biography/Scotland
 | notes      = Second edition, in nine volumes. Based on the first edition of four volumes by [[Author:Robert Chambers (1802-1871)|Robert Chambers]] with supplementary material
{{incomplete|scan=yes}}{{DEFAULTSORT:Biographical dictionary of eminent Scotsmen}}
{{Eminent Scotsmen indexes}}
}}

{{#tag:pages||index=A biographical dictionary of eminent Scotsmen, vol 1.djvu|from=7|to=8}}

{{page break|label=}}

{{#tag:pages||index=A biographical dictionary of eminent Scotsmen, vol 1.djvu|include=11}}

{{page break|label=}}

{{#tag:pages||index=A biographical dictionary of eminent Scotsmen, vol 1.djvu|include=13}}

{{page break|label=}}

{{#tag:pages||index=A biographical dictionary of eminent Scotsmen, vol 1.djvu|include=14}}

{{page break|label=}}

{{auxiliary Table of Contents|
==A==
* [[/Abercromby, The Honourable Alexander/]]
* [[/Abercromby, John/]]
* [[/Abercromby, Patrick/]]
* [[/Abercromby, Sir Ralph/]]
* [[/Abernethy, John/]]
* [[/Adam, Alexander/]]
* [[/Adam, Robert/]]
* [[/Adamson, Henry/]]
* [[/Adamson, Patrick/]]
* [[/Aidan, Saint/]]
* [[/Aikman, William/]]
* [[/Aiton, William/]]
* [[/Ales or Alesse, Alexander/]]
* [[/Alexander, William/]]
* [[/Alexander I./]]
* [[/Alexander II./]]
* [[/Alexander III./]]
* [[/Allan, David/]]
* [[/Alston, Charles/]]
* [[/Alves, Robert/]]
* [[/Anderson, Adam/]]
* [[/Anderson, Alexander/]]
* [[/Anderson, James/]]
* [[/Anderson, James, D.D./]]
* [[/Anderson, James, of Hermiston/]]
* [[/Anderson, John, M.A./]]
* [[/Anderson, John, F.R.S./]]
* [[/Anderson, Robert, M.D./]]
* [[/Anderson, Walter, D.D./]]
* [[/Annand, William/]]
* [[/Arbuthnot, Alexander/]]
* [[/Arbuthnot, John, M.D./]]
* [[/Armstrong, John, M.D./]]
* [[/Arnot, Hugo/]]
* [[/Ayton, (Sir) Robert/]]

==B==

* [[/Baillie, Robert/]]
* [[/Baillie, Robert, of Jerviswood/]]
* [[/Baillie, Matthew, M.D./]]
* [[/Baird, (the Right Honourable, General Sir) David/]]
* [[/Balcanquel, Walter, D.D./]]
* [[/Balfour, Alexander/]]
* [[/Balfour, (Sir) Andrew, Bart., M.D./]]
* [[/Balfour, (Sir) James, lawyer/]]
* [[/Balfour, (Sir) James, antiquary/]]
* [[/Balfour, Robert/]]
* [[/Baliol, John/]]
* [[/Baliol, Edward/]]
* [[/Ballantyne, John/]]
* [[/Ballentyne, (or Bellenden,) John/]]
* [[/Balnaves, Henry, of Halhill/]]
* [[/Bannatyne, George/]]
* [[/Barbour, John/]]
* [[/Barclay, Alexander/]]
* [[/Barclay, John, A.M./]]
* [[/Barclay, John, M.D./]]
* [[/Barclay, Robert/]]
* [[/Barclay, William/]]
* [[/Barclay, John, poet/]]
* [[/Bassantin, or Bassantoun, James/]]
* [[/Bassol, John/]]
* [[/Baxter, Andrew/]]
* [[/Bayne, (or Baine) James, A.M./]]
* [[/Beaton, or Beatoun (Cardinal) David/]]
* [[/Beaton, James, prelate and statesman/]]
* [[/Beaton, James, Archbishop of Glasgow/]]
* [[/Beatson, Robert, LL.D./]]
* [[/Beattie, James/]]
* [[/Bell, Andrew, D.D./]]
* [[/Bell, Benjamin/]]
* [[/Bell, Henry/]]
* [[/Bell, John, of Antermony/]]
* [[/Bell, John, surgeon/]]
* [[/Bellenden, William/]]
* [[/Bernard/]]
* [[/Berry, William/]]
* [[/Binning, Hugh/]]
* [[/Bissat, or Bissart, Peter/]]
* [[/Bisset, Charles/]]
* [[/Black, Joseph/]]
* [[/Blackadder, John/]]
* [[/Blacklock, Thomas/]]
* [[/Blackwell, Alexander and Elizabeth/]]
* [[/Blackwell, Thomas/]]
* [[/Blackwood, Adam/]]
* [[/Blackwood, Henry/]]
* [[/Blackwood, William/]]
* [[/Blair, Hugh, D.D./]]
* [[/Blair, James/]]
* [[/Blair, John, churchman/]]
* [[/Blair, John, LL.D., chronologist/]]
* [[/Blair, Patrick, M.D./]]
* [[/Blair, Robert, divine/]]
* [[/Blair, Robert, author/]]
* [[/Boece, Hector/]]
* [[/Bogue, David/]]
* [[/Boston, Thomas/]]
* [[/Boswell, James, biographer/]]
* [[/Boswell, Alexander and James/]]
* [[/Boswell, James, son of biographer/]]
* [[/Bower, Archibald/]]
* [[/Bower, Walter/]]
* [[/Boyd, Mark/]]
* [[/Boyd, Robert/]]
* [[/Boyd, Zachary/]]
* [[/Brown, James/]]
* [[/Brown, John of Haddington/]]
* [[/Brown, John, M.D./]]
* [[/Brown, John, artist/]]
* [[/Brown, William Laurence/]]

==F==
* [[/Falconer, William/]]

==T==

* [[/Tytler, James/]]


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{{header
 | title      = A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons on Beaver Island
 | author     = Elizabeth Whitney Williams 
 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1905
 | portal     = 
 | notes      = Originally published in Harbor Springs, Michigan in 1905, this book is an autobiography giving a first-hand account of the personal life of the author about her experiences on Beaver Island, Michigan and surrounding areas before, during, and after the reign of the 'Mormon King' James Jesse Strang. Elizabeth Whitney Williams (1842-1938), wrote this book while working as a female light house keeper at the Little Traverse Lighthouse. This work was later republished in 2004, but the orginal text without additions is in the public domain.
}}

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* [[/Part 1/]]
* [[/Part 2/]]
}}

[[Category:Mormonism]]
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justice and five (formerly tour, until 31 8: 32
v'ict c. 12:3. 5 11, suhsec. S) 1:-uisné judges.
It was detached from the king's court («um
rcgis) as early as the reign of Richard L.
and the fourteenth clause of lllngna Clmrtn
enacted that it should not follow the king's
court, but be held in some certain piace Its
jurisdiction was altogether confined to civil
matters, having no cognizance in criminal
cases, and was concurrent with that of the
queen's bench and excheqner in personal
actions and ejectment. Wharton.

{{anchor+|.|'''COMMON RECOVERY.'''}} In conveyancing. A species of common assurance, or mode of conveying lands by matter of record,
formeriy in frequent use in Englnlid It
was in the nature and form of an action at
law, carried reguinrly through, and ending
in a reomrry of the lands against the tenant of the freehold: which recovery, hemg a
supposed adjudication of the right, hound all
persons, and rested a free and ahsolute feesimple in the recoxerer. 2 Bl. Comm. 357.
Christy v. Burch. 25 Fla. 94:2. 2 South. 258.
Common recoveries were abolished by the
statutes 3 &amp; 4 Wm. IV. c. 74.

COMMONABLE. Entitled to common.
Communable beasts are either beasts of the
piow, as horses and oxen, or such as manure
the land, as kins and sheep. Beasts not
common-able are swine, goats, and the like.
Co. Litt. 1%; 2 Bl. Comm. 33.

'''COMMONAGE.''' In old deeds. The right
of common. See Common.

COMMONALTY. Inflnglish law. The
great body of citizens; the mass of the peo-
ple, excluding the nobility.

In American law. The body of people
composing a municipal corporation, excluding the corporate ofilcers.

COMMONANCE. The commoners, or
tenants and inhabitants, who have the right
of common or commoning in open field. Cow-
ell.

COMMONERS. In English law. Persons having a right of common. so called
because they have a right to pasture on the
naste, in common with the lord. 2 H. B1.
389.

COMMONS. 1. The class of subjects in
Great Britain exclusive or the royal family
and the nobility. They are represented in
pnriiament by the house of commons.

2. Part of the demesne land or a mnnor,
(or land the property of which was in the
lord,) which, being uncultivated, was termed
the &quot;lord's waste,&quot; and served for public
roads and for common of pasture to the lord
-«s:;I;_~sns+s.-=2.-.gs. ‘Lian rinsing. on.

228 COMMOTION
COMMONS HOUSE OF PARLIA-
MSENI‘. In the English pariisment. The
lower house, so called because the common:
of the realm, that is, the lxnights. citizens,
and burgesses returned to parliament. representing the whole body of the commons, sit
there.

COMKONTY. In Scotch law. land pop-
sessed in common by difitorent proprietors. or
by those having acquired rights of servitude.
Bell.

COMMONWEALTH. The public or com-
mon weai or welfare. This cannot be re-
garded as a technical term or public law,
though often used in political science. 1o
generally designates, when so employed, a
republican frame of government.—one in
which the welfare and rights of the entirn
mass of people are the main consideration,
rather than the privileges of a class or the
will of a monarch; or it may designate the
body of citizens living under such a government. Sometimes it may denote the corpo-
rate entity, or the government, of a jurnl
society (or state) possessing powers of sait-
government in respect of its immediate cocnerns, but forming an integral part of a larger government, (or nation.) In this latter
sense. it is the official title of several of the
United States, (as Pennsylvania and Massa-
chusetts,) and would be appropriate to them
all. In the former sense, the word was used
to designate the English government during
the protectorate of Cromwell. See Gorr:aiv-
MINT; Narzon; Sun. (State v. Lambert,
44 W. Va. 308. 28 s. E. 930.)

COMMORANCY. The dwelllng in any
place as an lnhahitant; which consists in
usually lying there. 4 Bl. Comm. 273. In
American law it ls used to denote a mere
temporary residence. Ames v. Winsor. 19
Pick. (Mass.) $8; Pullen v. Monk, 82 Me,
412, 19 At). 909: Gilman v. Imnan, 85 Me.
105. 26 Atl. 1049.

COMHORANT. Staying or abiding;
dwelling temporarily in a place.

COMKORIIENTES. Severed persons who
perish at the same time in consequence of the same caialnity.

COMMORTE, or COMORTE. A contri-
hution which was gathered at marriages,
and when young priests said or sung the
first masses. Prohibited by 26 Hen. VIII.
C. 6. (Jewell.

COMHOTE. Half a cantred or hundred
in Wales. containing fifty vilages. Also in
great seignory or lordship, and may include
one or divers manors. O0. Litt 5.

COMMOTION. A &quot;clvil commotion&quot; in
an insurrection of the people for gem-xal
v.;;sx:s9aas._\, it. ma.v,,not ammml. to re

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justice and five (formerly tour, until 31 8: 32
v'ict c. 12:3. 5 11, suhsec. S) 1:-uisné judges.
It was detached from the king's court («um
rcgis) as early as the reign of Richard L.
and the fourteenth clause of lllngna Clmrtn
enacted that it should not follow the king's
court, but be held in some certain piace Its
jurisdiction was altogether confined to civil
matters, having no cognizance in criminal
cases, and was concurrent with that of the
queen's bench and excheqner in personal
actions and ejectment. Wharton.

{{anchor+|.|'''COMMON RECOVERY.'''}} In conveyancing. A species of common assurance, or mode of conveying lands by matter of record,
formeriy in frequent use in Englnlid It
was in the nature and form of an action at
law, carried reguinrly through, and ending
in a reomrry of the lands against the tenant of the freehold: which recovery, hemg a
supposed adjudication of the right, hound all
persons, and rested a free and ahsolute feesimple in the recoxerer. 2 Bl. Comm. 357.
Christy v. Burch. 25 Fla. 94:2. 2 South. 258.
Common recoveries were abolished by the
statutes 3 &amp; 4 Wm. IV. c. 74.

COMMONABLE. Entitled to common.
Communable beasts are either beasts of the
piow, as horses and oxen, or such as manure
the land, as kins and sheep. Beasts not
common-able are swine, goats, and the like.
Co. Litt. 1%; 2 Bl. Comm. 33.

'''COMMONAGE.''' In old deeds. The right
of common. See Common.

COMMONALTY. Inflnglish law. The
great body of citizens; the mass of the peo-
ple, excluding the nobility.

In American law. The body of people
composing a municipal corporation, excluding the corporate ofilcers.

COMMONANCE. The commoners, or
tenants and inhabitants, who have the right
of common or commoning in open field. Cow-
ell.

COMMONERS. In English law. Persons having a right of common. so called
because they have a right to pasture on the
naste, in common with the lord. 2 H. B1.
389.

COMMONS. 1. The class of subjects in
Great Britain exclusive or the royal family
and the nobility. They are represented in
pnriiament by the house of commons.

2. Part of the demesne land or a mnnor,
(or land the property of which was in the
lord,) which, being uncultivated, was termed
the &quot;lord's waste,&quot; and served for public
roads and for common of pasture to the lord
-«s:;I;_~sns+s.-=2.-.gs. ‘Lian rinsing. on.

228 COMMOTION
COMMONS HOUSE OF PARLIA-
MSENI‘. In the English pariisment. The
lower house, so called because the common:
of the realm, that is, the lxnights. citizens,
and burgesses returned to parliament. representing the whole body of the commons, sit
there.

COMKONTY. In Scotch law. land pop-
sessed in common by difitorent proprietors. or
by those having acquired rights of servitude.
Bell.

COMMONWEALTH. The public or com-
mon weai or welfare. This cannot be re-
garded as a technical term or public law,
though often used in political science. 1o
generally designates, when so employed, a
republican frame of government.—one in
which the welfare and rights of the entirn
mass of people are the main consideration,
rather than the privileges of a class or the
will of a monarch; or it may designate the
body of citizens living under such a government. Sometimes it may denote the corpo-
rate entity, or the government, of a jurnl
society (or state) possessing powers of sait-
government in respect of its immediate cocnerns, but forming an integral part of a larger government, (or nation.) In this latter
sense. it is the official title of several of the
United States, (as Pennsylvania and Massa-
chusetts,) and would be appropriate to them
all. In the former sense, the word was used
to designate the English government during
the protectorate of Cromwell. See Gorr:aiv-
MINT; Narzon; Sun. (State v. Lambert,
44 W. Va. 308. 28 s. E. 930.)

COMMORANCY. The dwelling in any place as an lnhabitant; which consists in usually lying there. 4 Bl. Comm. 273. In American law it ls used to denote a mere temporary residence. Ames v. Winsor. 19 Pick. (Mass.) $8; Pullen v. Monk, 82 Me, 412, 19 Atl. 909: Gilman v. Imnan, 85 Me. 105. 26 Atl. 1049.

COMMORANT. Staying or abiding; dwelling temporarily in a place.

COMMORIIENTES. Severed persons who perish at the same time in consequence of the same calamity.

COMMORTH, or COMORTH. A contribution which was gathered at marriages, and when young priests said or sung the first masses. Prohibited by 26 Hen. VIII. C. 6. Cowell.

COMHOTE. Half a cantred or hundred in Wales. containing fifty vilages. Also in great seignory or lordship, and may include one or divers manors. O0. Litt 5.

COMMOTION. A &quot;civil commotion&quot; is an insurrection of the people for general purposes, though it may not amount to re

4&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:EB1911 - Volume 24.djvu/21</title>
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      <text bytes="10882" sha1="hkgh74pnk5mw0t0fbrknui5vxac3usv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Diverman&quot; /&gt;{{EB1911 Page Heading| |ST HELENA||7}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;St Gotthard Pass&quot; /&gt;valleys, much exposed to avalanches. The hospice on the summit is first mentioned in 1331, and from 1683 onwards was in charge of two Capuchin friars. But in 1775 the buildings near it were damaged by an avalanche, while in 1799–1800 everything was destroyed by the French soldiery. Rebuilt in 1834, the hospice was burnt in March 1905. The mule path (dating from about 1293) across the pass served for many centuries, for though Mr&amp;nbsp;Greville, in 1775, succeeded in taking a light carriage across, the carriage-road was only constructed between 1820 and 1830. Now the pass is deserted in favour of the great tunnel (pierced in 1872–1880, {{nowrap|9{{EB1911 tfrac|4}} m.}} in length, and attaining a height of 3786&amp;nbsp;ft.), through which runs the railway (opened in 1882) from Lucerne to Milan {{nowrap|(175{{EB1911 tfrac|2}} m.),}} one of the greatest engineering feats of the 19th century. It runs mainly along the eastern shore of the Lake of Lucerne, from Lucerne to Flüelen {{nowrap|(32{{EB1911 tfrac|4}} m.),}} and then up the Reuss valley past Altdorf and Wassen, near which is the first of the famous spiral tunnels, to Goeschenen (56&amp;nbsp;m. from Lucerne). Here the line leaves the Reuss valley to pass through the tunnel and so gain, at Airolo, the valley of the Ticino or the Val Leventina, which it descends, through several spiral tunnels, till at Biasca (38&amp;nbsp;m. from Goeschenen) it reaches more level ground. Thence it runs past Bellinzona to Lugano {{nowrap|(30{{EB1911 tfrac|2}} m.}} from Biasca) and reaches Italian territory at Chiasso, 35&amp;nbsp;m. from Milan. In 1909 the Swiss government exercised the right accorded to it by the agreement of 1879 of buying the St&amp;nbsp;Gotthard Railway from the company which built it within thirty years of that date. {{EB1911 footer initials|William Augustus Brevoort Coolidge|W.A.B.C.}}

&lt;section end=&quot;St Gotthard Pass&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;St Helena&quot; /&gt;'''ST HELENA,''' an island and British possession in the South Atlantic in 15°&amp;nbsp;55′&amp;nbsp;26″&amp;nbsp;S., 5°&amp;nbsp;42′&amp;nbsp;30″&amp;nbsp;W. (Ladder Hill Observatory). It lies 700&amp;nbsp;m. S.E. of the island of Ascension (the nearest land), 1200&amp;nbsp;m. W. of Mossamedes (the nearest African port), 1695 N.W. of Cape Town, and is distant from Southampton 4477&amp;nbsp;m. It has an area of about 47&amp;nbsp;sq.&amp;nbsp;m., the extreme length from S.W. to N.E. being {{nowrap|10{{EB1911 tfrac|4}} m.}} and the extreme breadth 8{{EB1911 tfrac|4}}. The island is of volcanic formation, but greatly changed by oceanic abrasion and atmospheric denudation. Its principal feature, a semicircular ridge of mountains, open towards the south-east and south, with the culminating summit of Diana's Peak (2704&amp;nbsp;ft.) is the northern rim of a great crater; the southern rim has disappeared, though its débris apparently keeps the sea shallow (from 20 to 50 fathoms) for some 2&amp;nbsp;m. S.E. of Sandy Bay, which hypothetically forms the centre of the ring. From the crater wall outwards water-cut gorges stretch in all directions, widening as they approach the sea into valleys, some of which are 1000&amp;nbsp;ft. deep, and measure one-eighth of a mile across at bottom and three-eighths across the top (Melliss). These valleys contain small streams, but the island has no rivers properly so called. Springs of pure water are, however, abundant. Along the enclosing hillsides caves have been formed by the washing out of the softer rocks. Basalts, andesites and phonolites, represent the chief flows. Many dikes and masses of basaltic rock seem to have been injected subsequently to the last volcanic eruptions from the central crater. The Ass's Ears and Lot's Wife, picturesque pinnacles standing out on the S.E. part of the crater ridge, and the Chimney on the coast south of Sandy Bay, are formed out of such injected dikes and masses. In the neighbourhood of Man and Horse (S.W. corner of the island), throughout an area of about 40 acres, scarcely 50 sq. yds. exist not crossed by a dyke. On the leeward (northern) side of St&amp;nbsp;Helena the sea-face is generally formed by cliffs from 600 to 1000&amp;nbsp;ft. high, and on the windward side these heights rise to about 2000&amp;nbsp;ft., as at Holdfast Tom, Stone Top and Old Joan Point. The only practicable landing-place is on the leeward side at St&amp;nbsp;James’s Bay—an open road stead. From the head of the bay a narrow valley extends for {{nowrap|1{{EB1911 tfrac|2}} m.}} The greatest extent of level ground is in the N.E. of the island, where are the Deadwood and Longwood plains, over 1700&amp;nbsp;ft. above the sea.

''Climate''.—Although it lies within the tropics the climate of the island is healthy and temperate. This is due to the south-east trade-wind, constant throughout the year, and.to the effect of the cold waters of the South Atlantic current. As a result the temperature varies little, ranging on the sea. level from 68° to 84° in summer and 57° to 70° in winter. The higher regions are about 10° cooler. The rainfall varies considerably, being from 30 to 50 in. a year in the hills.

''Flora''.—St Helena is divided into three vegetation zones: (1) the coast zone, extending inland for 1&amp;nbsp;m. to {{nowrap|1{{EB1911 tfrac|2}} m.,}} formerly clothed with a luxuriant vegetation, but now “dry, barren, soilless, lichen coated, and rocky,” with little save prickly pears, wire grass and ''Mesembryanthemum''; (2)&amp;nbsp;the middle zone (400–1800&amp;nbsp;ft.), extending about three-quarters of a mile inland, with shallower valleys and grassier slopes—the English broom and gorse, brambles, willows, poplars, Scotch pines, &amp;c., being the prevailing forms; and (3)&amp;nbsp;the central zone, about 3&amp;nbsp;m. long and 2&amp;nbsp;m. wide, the home, for the most part, of the indigenous flora. According to W.&amp;nbsp;B. Hemsley (in his report on the botany of the Atlantic Islands),&lt;ref&gt;In the “Challenger” expedition reports, ''Botany'', vol. i. (1885).&lt;/ref&gt; the certainly indigenous species of plants are 65, the probably indigenous 24 and the doubtfully indigenous 5; total 94. Of the 38 flowering plants 20 are shrubs or small trees. With the exception of ''Scirpus nodosus'', all the 38 are peculiar to the island; and the same is true of 12 of the 27 vascular cryptogams (a remarkable proportion). Since the flora began to be studied, two species—''Melhania melanoxylon'' and ''Acalypha rubra''—are known to have become extinct; and at least two others have probably shared the same fate—''Heliotropism pennifolium'' and ''Demazeria obliterata''. ''Melhania melanoxylon'', or “ native ebony,” once abounded in parts of the island now barren; but the young trees were allowed to be destroyed by the goats of the early settlers, and it is now extinct. Its beautiful congener ''Melhania'' ''erythfoxylon'' (“ redwood ”) was still tolerably plentiful in 1810, but is now reduced to a few specimens. Very rare, too, has become ''Pelargonium'' ''cotyledonis'', called “ Old Father Live-for-ever,” from its retaining vitality for months without soil or water. ''Commidendron robustum'' (“gumwood”), a tree about 20&amp;nbsp;ft. high, once the most abundant in the island, was represented in 1868 by about 1300 or 1400 examples; and ''Commidendron rugosum'' (“scrub wood”) is confined to somewhat limited regions. Both these plants are characterized by a daisy- or aster-like blossom. The affinities of the indigenous flora of St&amp;nbsp;Helena were described by Sir Joseph Hooker as African, but George Bentham points out that the ''Compositae'' shows, at least in its older forms, a connexion rather with South America. The exotic flora introduced from all parts of the world gives the island almost the aspect of a botanic garden. The oak, thoroughly naturalized, grows alongside of the bamboo and banana. Among other trees and plants are the common English gorse; ''Rubus pinnatus'', probably introduced from Africa about 1775; ''Hypochaeris radicata'', which above 1500&amp;nbsp;ft. forms the dandelion of the country; the beautiful but aggressive ''Buddleia Madagascariensis''; ''Physalis peruviana''; the common castor-oil plant; and the pride of India. The peepul is the principal shade tree in Jamestown, and in Jamestown valley the date-palm grows freely. Orange and lemon trees, once common, are now scarce.

''Fauna''.—St Helena possesses no indigenous vertebrate land fauna. The only land groups well represented are the beetles and the land shells. T.&amp;nbsp;V. Wollaston, in ''Coleoptera Sanctae Helenae'' (1877), shows that out of a total list of 203 species of beetles 129 are probably aboriginal and 128 peculiar to the island—an individuality perhaps unequalled in the world. More than two-thirds are weevils and a vast majority wood-borers, a fact which bears out the tradition of forests having once covered the island. The ''Hemiptera'' and the land-shells also show a strong residuum of peculiar genera and species. A South American white ant (''Termes tenuis'', Hagen.), introduced from a slave-ship in 1840, soon became a plague at Jamestown, where it consumed a large part of the public library and the woodwork of many buildings, public and private. Practically everything had to be rebuilt with teak or cypress—the only woods the white ant cannot devour. Fortunately it cannot live in the higher parts of the island. The honey-bee, which throve for some time after its introduction, again died out (cf. A.&amp;nbsp;R. Wallace, ''Island Life'', 1880). Besides domestic animals the only land mammals are rabbits, rats and mice, the rats being especially abundant and building their nests in the highest trees. Probably the only endemic land bird is the wire bird, ''Aegialitis sanctae Helenae''; the averdevat, Java sparrow, cardinal, ground-dove, partridge (possibly the Indian ''chukar''), pheasant and guinea-fowl are all common. The pea-fowl, at one time not uncommon in a wild state, is long since exterminated. There are no freshwater fish, beetles or shells. Of sixty-five species of sea-fish caught off the island seventeen are peculiar to St&amp;nbsp;Helena; economically the more important kinds are gurnard, eel, cod, mackerel, tunny, bullseye, cavalley, flounder, hog-fish, mullet and sculpin.

''Inhabitants''.—When discovered the island was uninhabited. The majority of the population are of mixed European (British, Dutch, Portuguese), East Indian and African descent—the Asiatic strain perhaps predominating; the majority of the early settlers having been previously members of the crews of ships returning to Europe from the East. From 1840 onward for a considerable period numbers of freed slaves of West African origin were settled here by men-of-war engaged in suppressing the slave trade. Their descendants form a distinct element&lt;section end=&quot;St Helena&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:EB1911 - Volume 10.djvu/152</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1756531</id>
    <revision>
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      <parentid>14977074</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:25:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
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      <comment>Added title link</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9339" sha1="q7ogpp1773hm9o1e8cnkbxihwokzo6w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;DivermanAU&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{x-larger|140}}|{{x-larger|FALCONE—FALCONER, W.}}|{{em|2.4}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;ordinary food. It is a summer visitant to most parts of Europe,
including the British Islands, and is most wantonly and needlessly
destroyed by gamekeepers. A second European species
of the group is the beautiful ''F. eleonorae'', which hardly comes
farther north than the countries bordering the Mediterranean,
and, though in some places abundant, is an extremely local bird.
The largest species of this section seems to be the Neotropical
''F. femoralis'', for ''F. diroleucus'' though often ranked here, is now
supposed to belong to the group of typical falcons. {{EB1911 footer initials|Alfred Newton|A. N.}}

&lt;section end=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;'''FALCONE, ANIELLO''' (1600–1665), Italian battle-painter, was
the son of a tradesman, and was born in Naples. He showed his
artistic tendency at an early age, received some instruction from
a relative, and then studied under Ribera (Lo Spagnoletto), of
whom he ranks as the most eminent pupil. Besides battle-pictures,
large and small, taken from biblical as well as secular
history, he painted various religious subjects, which, however,
count for little in his general reputation. He became, as a battle-painter,
almost as celebrated as Borgognone (Courtois), and was
named “L’Oracolo delle Battaglie.” His works have animation,
variety, truth to nature, and careful colour. Falcone was bold,
generous, used to arms, and an excellent fencer. In the insurrection
of Masaniello (1647) he resolved to be bloodily avenged
for the death, at the hands of two Spaniards, of a nephew
and of a pupil in the school of art which he had established in
Naples. He and many of his scholars, including Salvator Rosa
and Carlo Coppola, formed an armed band named the ''Compagnia''
''della Morte'' (“Company of Death”; see {{EB1911 article link|Rosa, Salvator}}).
They scoured the streets by day, exulting in slaughter; at night
they were painters again, and handled the brush with impetuous
zeal. Peace being restored, they had to decamp. Falcone and
Rosa made off to Rome; here Borgognone noticed the works of
Falcone, and became his friend, and a French gentleman induced
him to go to France, where Louis XIV. became one of his patrons.
Ultimately Colbert obtained permission for the painter to return
to Naples, and there he died in 1665. Two of his battle-pieces
are to be seen in the Louvre and in the Naples museum; he
painted a portrait of Masaniello, and engraved a few plates.
Among his principal scholars, besides Rosa and Coppola (whose
works are sometimes ascribed to Falcone himself), were Domenico
Gargiuolo (named Micco Spadaro), Paolo Porpora and Andrea
di Lione.

&lt;section end=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s3&quot; /&gt;[[Author:Hugh Falconer|'''FALCONER, HUGH''']] (1808–1865), British palaeontologist and
botanist, descended from an old Scottish family, was born at
Forres on the 29th of February 1808. In 1826 he graduated at
Aberdeen, where he manifested a taste for the study of natural
history. He afterwards studied medicine in the university of
Edinburgh, taking the degree of M.D. in 1829; during this
period he zealously attended the botanical classes of Prof. R.
Graham (1786–1845), and those on geology by Prof. R. Jameson.
Proceeding to India in 1830 as assistant-surgeon on the Bengal
establishment of the East India Company, he made on his
arrival an examination of the fossil bones from Ava in the
possession of the Asiatic Society of Bengal, and his description
of the collection, published soon afterwards, gave him a recognized
position among the scientists of India. Early in 1831 he
was appointed to the army station at Meerut, in the North-Western
Provinces, but in the same year he was asked to officiate
as superintendent of the botanic garden of Saharanpur, during
the ill-health and absence of Dr J. F. Royle; and in 1832 he
succeeded to this post. He was thus placed in a district that
proved to be rich in palaeontological remains; and he set to
work to investigate its natural history and geology. In 1834 he
published a geological description of the Siwalik hills, in the
Tertiary strata of which he had in 1831 discovered bones of
crocodiles, tortoises and other animals; and subsequently, with
conjoint labourers, he brought to light a sub-tropical fossil
fauna of unexampled extent and richness, including remains of
''Mastodon'', the colossal ruminant ''Sivatherium'', and the enormous
tortoise ''Colossochelys Atlas''. For these valuable discoveries he
and Captain (afterwards Sir Proby T.) Cautley (1802–1871)
received in 1837 the Wollaston medal in duplicate from the
Geological Society of London. In 1834 Falconer was appointed
to inquire into the fitness of India for the growth of the tea-plant,
and it was on his recommendation that it was introduced
into that country.

He was compelled by illness to leave India in 1842, and
during his stay in England he occupied himself with the classification
and arrangement of the Indian fossils presented to the
British Museum and East India House, chiefly by himself and
Sir Proby T. Cautley. He then set to work to edit the great
memoir by Cautley and himself, entitled ''Fauna Antiqua Sivalensis'',
of which Part I. text was issued in 1846, and a series of
107 plates during the years 1846–1849. Unfortunately the
work, owing partly to Dr Falconer’s absence from England and
partly to ill-health, was never completed. He was elected F.R.S.
in 1845. In 1847 he was appointed superintendent of the
Calcutta botanical garden, and professor of botany in the
medical college; and on entering on his duties in the following
year he was at once employed by the Indian government and the
Agricultural and Horticultural Society as their adviser on all
matters connected with the vegetable products of India. He
prepared an important report on the teak forests of Tenasserim,
and this was the means of saving them from destruction by
reckless felling; and through his recommendation the cultivation
of the cinchona bark was introduced into the Indian empire.
Being compelled by the state of his health to leave India in
1855, he spent the remainder of his life chiefly in examining
fossil species in England and the Continent corresponding to
those which he had discovered in India, notably the species of
mastodon, elephant and rhinoceros; he also described some new
mammalia from the Purbeck strata, and he reported on the
bone-caves of Sicily, Gibraltar, Gower and Brixham. In the
course of his researches he became interested in the question of
the antiquity of the human race, and actually commenced a work
on “Primeval Man,” which, however, he did not live to finish.
He died on the 31st of January 1865. Shortly after his death a
committee was formed for the promotion of a “Falconer
Memorial.” This took the shape of a marble bust, which was
placed in the rooms of the Royal Society of London, and of a
Falconer scholarship of the annual value of £100, open for
competition to graduates in science or medicine of the university
of Edinburgh.

{{EB1911 fine print/s}}
Dr Falconer’s botanical notes, with 450 coloured drawings of
Kashmir and Indian plants, have been deposited in the library at
Kew Gardens, and his ''Palaeontological Memoirs and Notes'', comprising
all his papers read before learned societies, have been edited,
with a biographical sketch, by Charles Murchison, M.D. (London,
1868). Many reminiscences of Dr Falconer, and a portrait of him,
were published by his niece, Grace, Lady Prestwich, in her ''Essays''
''descriptive and biographical'' (1901).
{{EB1911 fine print/e}}

&lt;section end=&quot;s3&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s4&quot; /&gt;'''[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|FALCONER, WILLIAM]]''' (1732–1769), British poet, was born
in Edinburgh on the 11th of February 1732. His father was a
wig-maker, and carried on business in one of the small shops
with wooden fronts at the Netherbow Port, an antique castellated
structure which remained till 1764, dividing High Street from
the Canongate. The old man became bankrupt, then tried
business as a grocer, and finally died in extreme poverty.
William, the son, having received a scanty education, was put
to sea. He served on board a Leith merchant vessel, and in his
eighteenth year obtained the appointment of second mate of the
“Britannia,” a vessel employed in the Levant trade, and
sailed from Alexandria for Venice. The “Britannia” was overtaken
by a dreadful storm off Cape Colonna and was wrecked,
only three of the crew being saved. Falconer was happily one
of the three, and the incidents of the voyage and its disastrous
termination formed the subject of his poem of ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]''
(1762). Meanwhile, on his return to England, Falconer, in his
nineteenth year, printed at Edinburgh an elegy on Frederick,
prince of Wales, and afterwards contributed short pieces to the
''Gentleman’s Magazine''. Some of these descriptive and lyrical
effusions possess merit. The fine naval song of “The Storm”
(“Cease, rude Boreas”), reputed to be by George Alexander
Stevens, the dramatic writer and lecturer, has been ascribed to
Falconer, but apparently on no authority. The duke of York,
to whom ''The Shipwreck'' had been dedicated, advised Falconer&lt;section end=&quot;s4&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:EB1911 - Volume 13.djvu/350</title>
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      <text bytes="9959" sha1="dkpw53fyimoqms6d5c3j2twgta4aukt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;DivermanAU&quot; /&gt;{{EB1911 Page Heading|334|HERBARIUM||  }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;
herbarium in Brussels are the specimens obtained by the traveller
Karl Friedrich Philipp von Martius, the majority of which
formed the groundwork of his ''Flora Brasiliensis''. The Berlin
herbarium is especially rich in more recent collections, and other
national herbaria sufficiently extensive to subserve the requirements
of the systematic botanist exist at St&amp;nbsp;Petersburg, Vienna,
Leiden, Stockholm, Upsala, Copenhagen and Florence. Of
those in the United States of America, the chief, formed by Asa
Gray, is the property of Harvard university; there is also a
large one at the New York Botanical Garden. The herbarium
at Melbourne, Australia, under Baron Müller, attained large
proportions; and that of the Botanical Garden of Calcutta is
noteworthy as the repository of numerous specimens described
by writers on Indian botany.

Specimens of flowering plants and vascular &lt;span style=&quot;border-bottom: 1px dashed red;&quot; title=&quot;amended from 'cryptograms'&quot;&gt;cryptogams&lt;/span&gt;
are generally mounted on sheets of stout smooth paper, of
uniform quality; the size adopted at Kew is 17&amp;nbsp;in. long by 11&amp;nbsp;in.
broad, that at the British Museum is slightly larger; the palms
and their allies, however, and some ferns, require a larger size.
The tough but flexible coarse grey paper (German ''Fliesspapier''),
upon which on the Continent specimens are commonly fixed by
gummed strips of the same, is less hygroscopic than ordinary
cartridge paper, but has the disadvantage of affording harbourage
in the inequalities of its surface to a minute insect, ''Atropos'' 
''pulsatoria'', which commits great havoc in damp specimens,
and which, even if noticed, cannot be dislodged without difficulty.
The majority of plant specimens are most suitably fastened on
paper by a mixture of equal parts of gum tragacanth and gum
arabic made into a thick paste with water. Rigid leathery
leaves are fixed by means of glue, or, if they present too smooth
a surface, by stitching at their edges. Where, as in private
herbaria, the specimens are not liable to be handled with great
frequency, a stitch here and there round the stem, tied at the
back of the sheet, or slips of paper passed over the stem through
two slits in the sheet and attached with gum to its back, or
simply strips of gummed paper laid across the stem, may be
resorted to.

To preserve from insects, the plants, after mounting, are
often brushed over with a liquid formed by the solution of
{{EB1911 tfrac|1|4}}&amp;nbsp;℔. each of corrosive sublimate and carbolic acid in 1&amp;nbsp;gallon
of methylated spirits. They are then laid out to dry on shelves
made of a network of stout galvanized iron wire. The use of
corrosive sublimate is not, however, recommended, as it forms
on drying a fine powder which when the plants are handled
will rub off and, being carried into the air, may prove injurious
to workers. If the plants are subjected to some process, before
mounting, by which injurious organisms are destroyed, such
as exposure in a closed chamber to vapour of carbon bisulphide
for some hours, the presence of pieces of camphor or naphthalene
in the cabinet will be found a sufficient preservative. After
mounting are written—usually in the right-hand corner of the
sheet, or on a label there affixed—the designation of each species,
the date and place of gathering, and the name of the collector.
Other particulars as to habit, local abundance, soil and claim
to be indigenous may be written on the back of the sheet or on
a slip of writing paper attached to its edge. It is convenient
to place in a small envelope gummed to an upper corner of the
sheet any flowers, seeds or leaves needed for dissection or
microscopical examination, especially where from the fixation
of the specimen it is impossible to examine the leaves for oil-receptacles
and where seed is apt to escape from ripe capsules
and be lost. The addition of a careful dissection of a flower
greatly increases the value of the specimen. To ensure that
all shall lie evenly in the herbarium the plants should be made
to occupy as far as possible alternately the right and left sides
of their respective sheets. The species of each genus are then
arranged either systematically or alphabetically in separate
covers of stout, usually light brown paper, or, if the genus be
large, in several covers with the name of the genus clearly indicated
in the lower left-hand corner of each, and opposite
it the names or reference numbers of the species. Undetermined
species are relegated to the end of the genus. Thus prepared,
the specimens are placed on shelves or movable trays, at intervals
of about 6&amp;nbsp;in., in an air-tight cupboard, on the inner side of the
door of which, as a special protection against insects, is suspended
a muslin bag containing a piece of camphor.

The systematic arrangement varies in different herbaria. In
the great British herbaria the orders and genera of flowering
plants are usually arranged according to Bentham and Hooker’s
''Genera plantarum''; the species generally follow the arrangement
of the most recent complete monograph of the family. In non-flowering
plants the works usually followed are for ferns, Hooker
and Baker’s ''Synopsis filicum''; for mosses, Müller’s ''Synopsis''
''muscorum frondosorum'', Jaeger &amp; Sauerbeck’s ''Genera et species''
''muscorum'', and Engler &amp; Prantl’s ''Pflanzenfamilien''; for algae,
de Toni’s ''Sylloge algarum''; for hepaticae, Gottsche, Lindenberg
and Nees ab Esenbeck’s ''Synopsis hepaticarum'', supplemented
by Stephani’s ''Species hepaticarum''; for fungi, Saccardo’s
''Sylloge fungorum'', and for mycetozoa Lister’s monograph of
the group. For the members of large genera, ''e.g.'' ''Piper'' and
''Ficus'', since the number of cosmopolitan or very widely distributed
species is comparatively few, a geographical grouping is
found specially convenient by those who are constantly receiving
parcels of plants from known foreign sources. The ordinary
systematic arrangement possesses the great advantage, in the
case of large genera, of readily indicating the affinities of any
particular specimen with the forms most nearly allied to it.
Instead of keeping a catalogue of the species contained in the
herbarium, which, owing to the constant additions, would be
almost impossible, such species are usually ticked off with a
pencil in the systematic work which is followed in arranging
them, so that by reference to this work it is possible to see at a
glance whether the specimen sought is in the herbarium and
what species are still wanted.

{{EB1911 fine print/s}}
Specimens intended for the herbarium should be collected when
possible in dry weather, care being taken to select plants or portions
of plants in sufficient number and of a size adequate to illustrate
all the characteristic features of the species. When the root-leaves
and roots present any peculiarities, they should invariably be
collected, but the roots should be dried separately in an oven at a
moderate heat. Roots and fruits too bulky to be placed on the sheet
of the herbarium may be conveniently arranged in glass-covered
boxes contained in drawers. The best and most effective mode of
drying specimens is learned only by experience, different species
requiring special treatment according to their several peculiarities.
The chief points to be attended to are to have a plentiful supply of
botanical drying paper, so as to be able to use about six sheets for
each specimen; to change the paper at intervals of six to twelve
hours; to avoid contact of one leaf or flower with another; and to
increase the pressure applied only in proportion to the dryness of the
specimen. To preserve the colour of flowers pledgets of cotton wool,
which prevent bruising, should be introduced between them, as also,
if the stamens are thick and succulent, as in ''Digitalis'', between these
and the corolla. A flower dissected and gummed on the sheets will
often retain the colour which it is impossible to preserve in a crowded
inflorescence. A flat sheet of lead or some other suitable weight
should be laid upon the top of the pile of specimens, so as to keep up
a continuous pressure. Succulent specimens, as many of the ''Orchidaceae''
and sedums and various other Crassulaceous plants, require
to be killed by immersion in boiling water before being placed in
drying paper, or, instead of becoming dry, they will grow between the
sheets. When, as with some plants like ''Verbascum'', the thick hard
stems are liable to cause the leaves to wrinkle in drying by removing
the pressure from them, small pieces of bibulous paper or cotton wool
may be placed upon the leaves near their point of attachment to
the stem. When a number of specimens have to be submitted to
pressure, ventilation is secured by means of frames corresponding
in size to the drying paper, and composed of strips of wood or wires
laid across each other so as to form a kind of network. Another mode
of drying is to keep the specimens in a box of dry sand in a warm
place for ten or twelve hours, and then press them in drying paper.
A third method consists in placing the specimen within bibulous
paper, and enclosing the whole between two plates of coarsely
perforated zinc supported in a wooden frame. The zinc plates are
then drawn close together by means of straps, and suspended before
a fire until the drying is effected. By the last two methods the
colour of the flowers may be well preserved. When the leaves are
finely divided, as in ''Conium'', much trouble will be experienced in
lifting a half-dried specimen from one paper to another; but the
plant may be placed in a sheet of thin blotting paper, and the sheet
containing the plant, instead of the plant itself, can then be moved.
Thin straw-coloured paper, such as is used for biscuit bags, may be
conveniently employed by travellers unable to carry a quantity of&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{EB1911 fine print/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dkpw53fyimoqms6d5c3j2twgta4aukt</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:EB1911 - Volume 24.djvu/610</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1798752</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133405</id>
      <parentid>14208059</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:49:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>DivermanAU</username>
        <id>522506</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>cryptograms→cryptogams; en-dash for date ranges, {{EB1911 tfrac|2}} etc.</comment>
      <origin>15133405</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8718" sha1="j9ap7je85pvnv0zutu7kn5xvy3b8ee0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Library Guy&quot; /&gt;{{EB1911 Page Heading|580|SEDULIUS|SEELEY|  }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Seduction&quot; /&gt;by the Divorce Act 1857 which substituted for it a claim for
damages against the co-respondent in a divorce suit; but if a
married woman were living apart from her husband in her
father’s house, and giving her services to her father in the slightest
degree, an action for seduction would lie. Seduction in England
is not as a rule a criminal offence. But a conspiracy to seduce
is indictable at common law. And the Criminal Law Amendment
Act 1885 (which extends to the United Kingdom) makes
it felony to seduce a girl under the the age of thirteen, and misdemeanour
to seduce a girl between thirteen and sixteen (§§&amp;nbsp;4, 5).
The same act also deals severely with the cognate offences of
procuration, abduction and unlawful detention with the intent
to seduce a woman of any age. The Children Act 1908 gave
a further protection to young people, enacting that if any
person having the custody, charge or care of a girl under the
age of sixteen causes or encourages the seduction of that girl he
shall be guilty of a misdemeanour, and be liable to imprisonment,
with or without hard labour, for a term not exceeding
two years.

{{fine block|''United States''.—In the United States state legislation has generally
modified the common law. In some states the father brings the
action as the representative of the family whose purity has been invaded;
in others the woman herself may bring the action. In many
states there is a criminal as well as a civil remedy. The penal codes
of New York, New Jersey, Louisiana and other states make it a crime
to seduce under promise of marriage an unmarried woman of good
reputation. Subsequent intermarriage of the parties is in most cases
a bar to criminal proceedings. The state legislation of the United
States is in remarkable opposition to the rule of the canon law, by
which the seduction of a woman by her betrothed was not punishable
on account of the inchoate right over her person given by the
betrothal.}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Seduction&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Sedulius&quot; /&gt;'''SEDULIUS,''' {{sc|Coelius}} or {{sc|Caelius}} (a praenomen of doubtful
authenticity), a Christian poet of the first half of the 5th century,
is termed a presbyter by Isidore of Seville and in the Gelasian
decree. He must not be confused with Sedulius the Irish-Scot
grammarian of the 9th century. His fame rests mainly upon a
long poem, ''Carmen paschale'', based on the four gospels. In
style a bombastic imitator of Virgil, he shows, nevertheless, a
certain freedom in the handling of the Biblical story, and the
poem soon became a quarry for the minor poets. A hymn by
Sedulius in honour of Christ, consisting of twenty-three quatrains
of iambic dimeters, has partly passed into the liturgy,
the first seven quatrains forming the Christmas hymn ''A solis''
''ortus cardine'', and some later ones the Epiphany hymn, ''Hostis''
''Herodes impie''. A ''Veteris et novi Testamenti collatio'' in elegiac
couplets has also come down, but we have no grounds for ascribing
to him the Virgilian cento, ''De verbi incarnatione''.

{{fine block|Sedulius’s works were edited by F. Arevalo (Rome, 1794), reprinted
in J.&amp;nbsp;P. Migne’s ''Patrol. Lat.'' vol.&amp;nbsp;xix.; and finally by
J.&amp;nbsp;Huemer (Vienna, 1885). See J.&amp;nbsp;Huemer, ''De Sedulii poëtae vita et'' 
''scriptis commentatio'' (Vienna, 1878); M. Manitius, ''Geschichte der'' 
''christlich-lateinischen Poesie'' (Stuttgart, 1891); Teuffel-Schwabe,
''Hist. of Roman Lit.'' (Eng. trans.), 473; Herzog-Hauck, ''Realencyklopädie'' 
''für protestantische Theologie'', xviii. (Leipzig, 1900); Smith
and Wace, ''Dictionary of Christian Biography'' (1887).}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Sedulius&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Sedum&quot; /&gt;'''SEDUM,''' in botany, a genus of the natural order Crassulaceae,
containing about 120 species, natives chiefly of the north temperate
and frigid regions, and mostly perennial herbs with succulent
leaves of varied form, but never compound. The white or yellow,
rarely, pink or blue, flowers are usually small and grouped in
cymes. They have a calyx of fine sepals, as many petals, usually
ten stamens and five distinct carpels, which have as many glands
at their base and ripen into as many dry seed-pods. Several
species are British, including some with tuberous roots and large
leaves (''Telephium''), and others of smaller size, chiefly found on
rocks, walls and dry banks; ''S.&amp;nbsp;acre'' is stonecrop (see fig.&amp;nbsp;1),
well, known also in gardens, a variety of which, ''aureum'', is in
cultivation with golden-yellow tips to the leaves and shoots.
Many others are cultivated for the beauty of their foliage or
flowers, and many are remarkable for their vitality under adverse
circumstances. They succeed on rockwork, old walls or as
border plants; some, ''e.g.'' ''S.&amp;nbsp;Lydium'', a native of Asia Minor, are
excellent for carpet bedding. ''S.&amp;nbsp;spectabile'', 1 to {{nowrap|1{{EB1911 tfrac|2}} ft.,}} with pink
flowers in great cymose heads, is a fine plant for the borders,
&lt;!-- column 2 --&gt;
and worthy also of pot-culture for greenhouse decoration.
''S.&amp;nbsp;Sieboldi'' and its variegated form, from Japan, are often grown
in hanging pots or baskets in cottage windows. ''Sedums'' are very
closely allied to ''Sempervivums'' (see {{EB1911 article link|Houseleek}}).

{{center|[[Image:EB1911 Sedum - Sedum acre.jpg|400px]]

{{sm|''Sedum acre'' (Stonecrop). (After Curtis.) Flora Lindinensis.&lt;br&gt;1, Diagram of flower; 2, flower enlarged.}}}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Sedum&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;See&quot; /&gt;'''SEE''' (Lat. ''sedes'', a seat), a seat or throne, particularly the
throne of a bishop, the ''cathedra'', the symbol of his office and
dignity, the placing of which in a church makes it a {{EB1911 lkpl|cathedral}}
(''q.v.''). The term is thus applied to the place where the bishop’s
cathedral is situated and from which he properly takes his
title, and so is to be distinguished from {{EB1911 lkpl|diocese}} (''q.v.''), the territorial
province over which his jurisdiction extends (see {{EB1911 article link|Bishop}}).
&lt;section end=&quot;See&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Seebach, Marie&quot; /&gt;'''SEEBACH, MARIE''' (1830–1897), German actress, was born at
Riga, in Russia, on the 24th of February 1830, being the daughter
of an actor, Wilhelm Friedrich Seebach (1798–1863). After
appearing first at Nuremberg as ''Julie'' in ''Kean'', she played
soubrette parts at Lübeck, Danzig and Cassel. In 1852 she
achieved her first great success at the Thaliatheater in Hamburg
as Gretchen in Goethe’s ''Faust'', and she remained there until
1854, when she appeared in Vienna. She then played in Munich,
establishing her reputation as a tragic actress with the roles of
Jane Eyre and Adrienne Lecouvreur. From 1855 to 1866 she was
engaged at the court theatre at Hanover, and there in 1859 she
married the tenor Albert Niemann. In 1866 she followed her
husband to Berlin, but separated from him after two years.
In 1870–1871 she visited the United States, and gave in
seventeen cities no less than 160 performances—mostly of
Faust; and in 1886 she accepted a permanent engagement at
the Schauspielhaus in Berlin. She retired from the stage in
1897, and died on the 3rd of August of that year. In 1895 she
endowed a home for poor actors and actresses at Weimar, called
the Marie Seebach Stiftung.

{{fine block|See Gensichen, ''Aus Marie Seebachs Leben'' (Berlin, 1900).}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Seebach, Marie&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Seed&quot; /&gt;'''SEED''' (from the root seen in Lat. ''serere'', to sow), the fertilized
ovule of plants. The seeds of the cryptogams or flowerless
plants are not-true seeds and are properly designated “spores”
(see {{EB1911 article link|Fruit}}). For the sowing of seed see {{EB1911 article link|Sowing}}.
&lt;section end=&quot;Seed&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Seeley, Sir John Robert&quot; /&gt;'''SEELEY, SIR JOHN ROBERT''' (1834–1895), English essayist and historian, was born in London in 1834. His father, R.&amp;nbsp;B. Seeley, was a publisher, and author of several religious books and of ''The Life and Times of Edward&amp;nbsp;I.'', which was highly esteemed by historians. From his father Seeley doubtless derived his taste for religious and historical subjects. He was educated at the City of London School and at Christ’s College, Cambridge, where he was head of the classical tripos and senior chancellor’s medallist, was elected fellow and became classical tutor of his college. For a time he was a master at his old school, and in 1863 was appointed professor of Latin at University College, London. His essay ''Ecce Homo'', published anonymously in 1866, and afterwards owned by him, was widely read, and called forth&lt;section end=&quot;Seeley, Sir John Robert&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Index talk:History of the University of Pennsylvania - Montgomery (1900).djvu</title>
    <ns>107</ns>
    <id>1805143</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131779</id>
      <parentid>14580577</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:38:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>update to remove reference to deleted template</comment>
      <origin>15131779</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1315" sha1="2114nrzov9fxkz1hkh2rv8mfmmfz7tn" xml:space="preserve">== Chapter numbers ==
I've been using the {{tl|pseudoheading}} template for chapter numbers, to get the layout better (gaps):

&lt;pre&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;
{{pseudoheading|###}}
&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;

&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:#808080 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em&quot; class=&quot;texhtml&quot;&gt;[[User:Hazmat2|The Haz]] &lt;sub&gt;[[User talk:Hazmat2|&lt;span style=&quot;color:black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 04:37, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

== Asterisks / Ellipsis ==
The author uses varying numbers of asterisks in place of ellipses. It's probably prudent to use the {{tl|nw}} template to keep them from getting broken up by a line break.

&lt;pre&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{nw|* *}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;
&lt;pre&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{nw|* * *}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;
&lt;pre&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{nw|* * * *}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;
&lt;pre&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{nw|* * * * *}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;

&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:#808080 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em&quot; class=&quot;texhtml&quot;&gt;[[User:Hazmat2|The Haz]] &lt;sub&gt;[[User talk:Hazmat2|&lt;span style=&quot;color:black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 20:38, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

== Quotes ==

There are two main types of quotes, long inline quotes, and long block quotes. I have used {{tl|QuoteHUP/s}} and {{tl|QuoteHUP/e}} to deal with the formatting. &lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:#808080 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em&quot; class=&quot;texhtml&quot;&gt;[[User:Hazmat2|The Haz]] &lt;sub&gt;[[User talk:Hazmat2|&lt;span style=&quot;color:black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 22:42, 4 April 2015 (UTC)</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User:Fernando de Gorocica</title>
    <ns>2</ns>
    <id>1841878</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132555</id>
      <parentid>14998642</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:41:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fernando de Gorocica</username>
        <id>490184</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132555</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="17137" sha1="9kf6jc48s6ydr0ejp6vjsy4cxfs4lm2" xml:space="preserve">{{DISPLAYTITLE:User:&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, serif; color:#0c5e43&quot;&gt;Fernando de Gorocica&lt;/span&gt;}}
[[File:Fernando_de_Gorocica.jpg|thumb|right|250px|En Playa Chica, [[w:es:Bulevar_Marítimo_Patricio_Peralta_Ramos|Bulevar Marítimo Patricio Peralta Ramos]], [[w:es:Mar_del_Plata|Mar del Plata]], Provincia de Buenos Aires. &lt;br /&gt;
[[w:es:República_Argentina|República Argentina]].]] 

== '''Biography, Job Profile and Albums''' == 

'''Fernando Tomás de Gorocica Rocca''' (born in [[w:es:Buenos_Aires|Buenos Aires]], [[Argentina]], August 2 th., 1962)
Systems Licenciate, [[w:es:Universidad_de_Belgrano|Universidad de Belgrano]]), amateur [[Astronomer]] (member of the [[w:es:Asociación_Argentina_Amigos_de_la_Astronomía|A.A.A.A.]]).

=== '''Job and Amateur Profiles ''' ===

==== '''Professional Profile''' ====
Informatic and Mathematics professor at Secondary School.

==== '''Amateur Astronomy Profile''' ====
* Astronomy interest since 1976. 

* Star catalog compilation and edition: '''&quot;Catálogo de las Constelaciones y de la Estrellas. Descripciones&quot;''', 11.1998.

* Astronomical Software Programming [https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BzIimqHayXqkS0VZUHc3VjVzVHM?usp=sharing '''&quot;M1 Sistema Astronómico&quot;©'''] (since 1998) oriented to the position astronomy: Sun, Moon, planets, asteroids, comets, Jupiter´s satéllites, stars, nebulae, galaxies and others celestial objects from the deep space; eclipses and astronomical almanac (ephemerids); celestial charts (owm design) and zodiacal diary position of the principal celestial objects.

* The Almagest's Ptolemy translated from the english version of Gerald J. Toomer in 2000. See: [https://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Almagesto'''Almagesto de Claudio Ptolomeo'''].

* Assay '''&quot;Cosmogonía del Sistema Solar&quot;''', 2002.

* Art: astronomical paintings since 2007.

* Web Publications since 2010. Facebook web page '''&quot;El Observador Astronómico&quot;''' (see links).

==== '''External webs links''' ====

* [https://www.facebook.com/fernando.de.gorocica'''Fernando de Gorocica (Facebook)''']

* [http://www.facebook.com/El.Observador.Astronomico'''El Observador Astronómico (Facebook)''']

* [http://www.youtube.com/user/EOAstronomico'''El Observador Astronómico (YouTube)''']

* [http://www.panoramio.com/user/2870005'''Google Earth (Guritxu)''']

==='''Books &amp; Articles'''===

==== '''Ptolemy's Almagest''' ====

* [[s:es:Almagesto|'''Almagesto''']]

* [[s:es:Almagesto:_Libro_VII_-_Capítulo_05 |'''Catálogo de Estrellas de Claudio Ptolomeo''']]

* [[s:es:Almagesto:_Sistema_Ptolemaico_o_Sistema_Geocéntrico |'''Sistema Ptolemaico o Sistema Geocéntrico''']]

* [[s:es:Almagesto:_Tabla_Cronológica_de_las_Observaciones |'''Tabla Cronológica de las Observaciones en el Almagesto''']]

* [[s:es:Almagesto:_Catálogo_de_Estrellas_de_Ptolomeo._Datación_en_el_Almagesto |'''Datación del Catálogo de Estrellas de Ptolomeo y de algunas Tablas''']]

* [[s:es:Almagesto:_Astrónomos_en_el_Almagesto |'''Mapa de los Astrónomos en el Almagesto''']]

* [[w:es:Anexo:Gerardo de Cremona. Lista de traducciones|'''Gerardo de Cremona. Lista de traducciones''']]

==== '''Eclipse Analysis. Theory of Friedrich Wilhelm Bessel''' ====

* [http://sedici.unlp.edu.ar/handle/10915/155074 '''Análisis de los Eclipses. Tratados X, XI y XIII. Libro segundo del ''Astronomische Untersuchungen'''''] ''', de''' [[:w:es:Friedrich_Bessel|'''Friedrich Wilhelm Bessel''']]

* [http://sedici.unlp.edu.ar/handle/10915/155705 '''Tránsito de Mercurio por el Sol del 05.05.1832. Tratado XII. Libro segundo del ''Astronomische Untersuchungen'''''] ''', de''' [[:w:es:Friedrich_Bessel|'''Friedrich Wilhelm Bessel''']]

* [[b:es:Cálculo_de_un_Eclipse_Solar_y_Lunar._Ocultación_y_Tránsito| '''Cálculo de un Eclipse Solar y Lunar. Ocultación y Tránsito''']]

* [[w:es:Anexo:Eclipses_lunares_desde_Argentina|'''Eclipses Lunares desde Argentina''']]

* [[w:es:Anexo:Eclipses_solares_en_Argentina|'''Eclipses Solares en Argentina''']]

==== '''Alfonsine tables''' ====

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Introducción '''Historia (History)''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Tiempo_y_Calendarios '''Eras, Calendarios y Tiempo. Raíces  o inicios (Eras, Time and Calendars. Roots or beginnings)''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Seno,_Ecuación_del_Tiempo_y_Coordenadas '''Seno, Ecuación del Tiempo y Coordenadas (Trigonometry: Sinus. Equation of Time and Coordinates)''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Sol '''Sol (Sun)''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Luna '''Luna (Moon)''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Eclipses '''Eclipses Solares y Lunares (Solar and lunar Eclipses''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Planetas '''Planetas (Planets)''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Estrellas '''Estrellas. Trepidación y Precesión. (Stars. Trepidation and Precession)''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Catálogo_de_Estrellas '''Catálogo de Estrellas (Star Catalogue)''']

==== '''Other Works''' ====

* [[b:es:Lluvia_de_Meteoros| '''Lluvia de Meteoros''']]

=== '''Astronomical Albums''' === 

==== '''Celestial Charts''' ====

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Cartas_Celestes'''Celestial Charts''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Zodíaco'''Zodiacal Celestial Charts''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Constelaciones_del_Hemisferio_Sur'''Southern Hemisphere Constellations''']

==== '''Others Astronomy Albums''' ====

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Albedo,_Luz_Zodiacal_y_Gegenschein'''Albedo, Zodiacal Light and Gegenschein''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Pinturas_Astronómicas'''Astronomical Paints''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Coordenadas_Celestes'''Celestial Coordinates''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Cometas'''Comets. Long and Short Periods''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Conjunciones_y_Ocultaciones_por_la_Luna'''Conjunctions and Occultations by the Moon''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Cosmogonía_u_Origen_del_Universo'''Cosmogony or Origin of the Universe''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Galaxias_y_la_Vía_Láctea'''Galaxies and the Milky Way''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Galileo_Galilei'''Galileo Galilei''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Fuerzas_Gravitatorias_y_Mecánica_Celeste'''Gravitational Forces and Celestial Mechanics''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Catálogo_Messier'''Messier Catalogue''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Lluvias_de_Meteoros'''Meteor Showers''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Meteoritos'''Meteorites''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Eclipses'''Moon and Solar Eclipses''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Observatorios_y_Telescopios'''Observatories and Telescopes''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Órbitas_y_Distancias_Astronómicas'''Orbits and Astronomical Distances''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Conjunciones_y_Oposiciones_Planetarias'''Planetary Opositions and Conjunctions''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Conjunciones_entre_Planetas_y_Estrellas'''Planets and Stars Conjunctions''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Planetas'''Planets''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Precesión,_Nutación_y_Movimientos_de_los_Polos'''Precession, Nutation and Pole Movement''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Refracción_y_Depresión_del_Horizonte'''Refraction and Depression of the Horizon''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Religión_y_Astronomía'''Religion and Astronomy''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Estrellas'''Stars''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Relojes_de_Sol_o_Gnómones'''Sundials''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Luna_y_Sol'''The Moon and the Sun''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tiempo_y_Calendarios'''Time and Calendars''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tránsitos_de_Mercurio_y_de_Venus'''Transits of Mercury and Venus''']

=== '''Mathematics &amp; Geometry''' === 

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Matemática'''Mathematics''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Geometría'''Geometry''']

{{DISPLAYTITLE:User:&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, serif; color:#0c5e43&quot;&gt;Fernando de Gorocica&lt;/span&gt;}}
[[File:Fernando_de_Gorocica.jpg|thumb|right|250px|En Playa Chica, [[w:es:Bulevar_Marítimo_Patricio_Peralta_Ramos|Bulevar Marítimo Patricio Peralta Ramos]], [[w:es:Mar_del_Plata|Mar del Plata]], Provincia de Buenos Aires. &lt;br /&gt;
[[w:es:República_Argentina|República Argentina]].]] 

* Información biográfica, laboral y amateur [[:en:User:Fernando_de_Gorocica |'''click here''']]

== '''Libros &amp; Artículos''' == 

=== '''Almagesto de Claudio Ptolomeo''' ===

* [[s:es:Almagesto|'''Almagesto''']]

* [[s:es:Almagesto:_Libro_VII_-_Capítulo_05 |'''Catálogo de Estrellas de Claudio Ptolomeo''']]

* [[s:es:Almagesto:_Sistema_Ptolemaico_o_Sistema_Geocéntrico |'''Sistema Ptolemaico o Sistema Geocéntrico''']]

* [[s:es:Almagesto:_Tabla_Cronológica_de_las_Observaciones |'''Tabla Cronológica de las Observaciones en el Almagesto''']]

* [[s:es:Almagesto:_Catálogo_de_Estrellas_de_Ptolomeo._Datación_en_el_Almagesto |'''Datación del Catálogo de Estrellas de Ptolomeo y de algunas Tablas''']]

* [[s:es:Almagesto:_Astrónomos_en_el_Almagesto |'''Mapa de los Astrónomos en el Almagesto''']]

=== '''Análisis de los Eclipses. Teoría de Friedrich Wilhelm Bessel''' ===

* [http://sedici.unlp.edu.ar/handle/10915/155074 '''Análisis de los Eclipses. Tratados X, XI y XIII. Libro segundo del ''Astronomische Untersuchungen'''''] ''', de''' [[:w:es:Friedrich_Bessel|'''Friedrich Wilhelm Bessel''']]

* [http://sedici.unlp.edu.ar/handle/10915/155705 '''Tránsito de Mercurio por el Sol del 05.05.1832. Tratado XII. Libro segundo del ''Astronomische Untersuchungen'''''] ''', de''' [[:w:es:Friedrich_Bessel|'''Friedrich Wilhelm Bessel''']]

* [[b:es:Cálculo_de_un_Eclipse_Solar_y_Lunar._Ocultación_y_Tránsito| '''Cálculo de un Eclipse Solar y Lunar. Ocultación y Tránsito''']]

* [[w:es:Anexo:Eclipses_lunares_desde_Argentina|'''Eclipses Lunares desde Argentina''']]

* [[w:es:Anexo:Eclipses_solares_en_Argentina|'''Eclipses Solares en Argentina''']]

=== '''Tablas Alfonsíes''' ===

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Introducción '''Historia''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Tiempo_y_Calendarios '''Eras, Calendarios y Tiempo. Raíces o inicios''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Seno,_Ecuación_del_Tiempo_y_Coordenadas '''Trigonometría: Seno. Ecuación del Tiempo y Coordenadas''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Sol '''Sol''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Luna '''Luna''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Eclipses '''Eclipses Solares y Lunares''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Planetas '''Planetas''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Estrellas '''Estrellas. Trepidación y Precesión''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tablas_Alfonsíes/Catálogo_de_Estrellas '''Catálogo de Estrellas''']

=== '''Otros Trabajos''' ===

* [[b:es:Lluvia_de_Meteoros| '''Lluvia de Meteoros''']]

== '''Álbumes sobre Astronomía''' == 

=== '''Cartas Celestes''' ===

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Cartas_Celestes'''Cartas Celestes''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Zodíaco'''Cartas Celestes del Zodíaco''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Constelaciones_del_Hemisferio_Sur'''Constelaciones del Hemisferio Sur''']

=== '''Otros Álbumes de Astronomía''' ===

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Albedo,_Luz_Zodiacal_y_Gegenschein'''Albedo, Luz Zodiacal y Gegenschein''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Catálogo_Messier'''Catálogo Messier''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Cometas'''Cometas Periódicos''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Conjunciones_y_Ocultaciones_por_la_Luna'''Conjunciones y Ocultaciones por la Luna''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Conjunciones_y_Oposiciones_Planetarias '''Conjunciones y Oposiciones Planetarias''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Conjunciones_entre_Planetas_y_Estrellas'''Conjunciones entre Planetas y Estrellas''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Coordenadas_Celestes'''Coordenadas Celestes''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Cosmogonía_u_Origen_del_Universo'''Cosmogonía u Origen del Universo''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Eclipses'''Eclipses Lunares y Solares''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Estrellas'''Estrellas''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Fuerzas_Gravitatorias_y_Mecánica_Celeste'''Fuerzas Gravitatorias y Mecánica Celeste''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Galaxias_y_la_Vía_Láctea'''Galaxias y la Vía Láctea''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Galileo_Galilei'''Galileo Galilei''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Luna_y_Sol'''La Luna y el Sol''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Lluvias_de_Meteoros'''Lluvias de Meteoros''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Meteoritos'''Meteoritos (Meteorites)''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Observatorios_y_Telescopios'''Observatorios y Telescopios''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Órbitas_y_Distancias_Astronómicas'''Órbitas y Distancias Astronómicas''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Pinturas_Astronómicas'''Pinturas Astronómicas''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Planetas'''Planetas''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Precesión,_Nutación_y_Movimientos_de_los_Polos'''Precesión, Nutación y Movimientos de los Polos''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Refracción_y_Depresión'''Refracción y Depresión del Horizonte (Refraction and Depression of the Horizon)''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Religión_y_Astronomía'''Religión y Astronomía''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Relojes_de_Sol_o_Gnómones'''Relojes de Sol o Gnómones''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tiempo_y_Calendarios'''Tiempo y Calendarios''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Tránsitos_de_Mercurio_y_de_Venus'''Tránsitos de Mercurio y de Venus''']

== '''Matemática y Geometría''' == 
* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Matemática'''Matemática (Mathematics)''']

* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Geometría'''Geometría (Geometry)''']

== '''Compañía Marítima Gorocica S.A.''' == 
* [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fernando_de_Gorocica/Compañía_Marítima_Gorocica_S.A. '''Compañía Marítima Gorocica S.A. (Wikicommons)''']

* [https://www.facebook.com/Compania.Maritima.Gorocica '''Compañía Marítima Gorocica S.A. (Facebook)''']
&lt;br&gt;

{{Userboxtop|align=left}}
{{#babel:es|en-2|it-1|eu-0}}
{{Userboxbottom}}</text>
      <sha1>9kf6jc48s6ydr0ejp6vjsy4cxfs4lm2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:EB1911 - Volume 20.djvu/576</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1853558</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133337</id>
      <parentid>14376878</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:38:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>DivermanAU</username>
        <id>522506</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>amend printer's error: Cryptograms→Cryptogams; add a non-break space</comment>
      <origin>15133337</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="10723" sha1="3or28z3gna3xff90wd5pp29unk20mty" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;DivermanAU&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{x-larger|526 }}|{{x-larger|PALAEOBOTANY}}|[PALAEOZOIC}}
{{EB1911 fine print/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Professor Seward, however, has found a ''Zygosporites'' ''in situ'', terminating
an apparently fungal hypha: he suggests a possible comparison
with the mould ''Mucor''. Bodies closely resembling the perithecia of
Sphaeriaceous Fungi have often been observed on impressions of
Palaeozoic plants, and may probably belong to the group indicated.
Professor F.&amp;nbsp;E. Weiss has obtained interesting evidence that the
symbiotic association between roots and Fungi, known as
“Mycorhiza,” already occurred among Carboniferous plants. The few
and incomplete data which we at present possess as to Palaeozoic
Fungi do not as yet justify any inferences as to the evolution of
these plants. The writer is not aware of any evidence for the
occurrence of Palaeozoic Lichens.
{{EB1911 fine print/e}}

The important class of the Bryophyta, which, on theoretical
grounds, is commonly regarded as more primitive than the
Pteridophyta, is as yet scarcely represented among
known fossils of Palaeozoic age. In the Lower
Carboniferous of Scotland Mr Kidston has found several specimens
of a large dichotomous thallus, with a very distinct midrib;
{{EB1911 Shoulder Heading|Bryophyta.}}
the specimens, referred to the provisional genus ''Thallites'', much
resemble the larger thalloid Liverworts. Similar fossils have
been described from still older rocks. In one or two cases
Palaeozoic plants, resembling the true Mosses in habit, have
been discovered; the best example is the ''Muscites polytrichaceus''
of Renault and Zeiller, from the Coal Measures of Commentry.
In the absence, however, both of reproductive organs and of
anatomical structure, it cannot be said that there is at present
conclusive evidence for the existence of either Hepaticae or
Musci in Palaeozoic times.

Our knowledge of the Vascular &lt;span style=&quot;border-bottom: 1px dashed red;&quot; title=&quot;amended from 'Cryptograms'&quot;&gt;Cryptogams&lt;/span&gt; of the Palaeozoic
period, though recent discoveries have somewhat reduced their
relative importance, is still more extensive than of any
other class of plants, and in fact it is here that the
evidence of Palaeontology first becomes of essential
importance to the botanist. They extend back through the
{{EB1911 Shoulder Heading|Pteridophyta.}}
Devonian, possibly to the Silurian system, but the systematic
summary now to be given is based primarily on the rich materials
afforded by the Carboniferous and Permian formations, from
which our detailed knowledge of Palaeozoic plants has been
chiefly derived.

In addition to the three classes, Equisetales, Lycopodiales and
Filicales, under which recent Pteridophytes naturally group
themselves, a fourth class, Sphenophyllales, existed in Palaeozoic
times, clearly related to the Horsetails and more remotely to
the Ferns and perhaps the Club-mosses, but with peculiarities
of its own demanding an independent position. We further find
that, whereas the Ferns of the present day form a well-defined
and even isolated class, this was not the case at the time when
the primary rocks were deposited. A great group of Palaeozoic
fossils, showing evident affinity to Ferns, has proved to consist
of seed-bearing plants allied to Gymnosperms, especially Cycads.
This important class of plants will be described at the beginning
of the Spermophyta under the name Pteridospermeae. The
arrangement which we shall adopt for the Palaeozoic Pteridophyta
is therefore as {{nowrap|follows:—}}

{|{{Ts|ma|lh110}}
|{{Ts|ar}}|I.||&amp;nbsp;''Equisetales''. ||{{Ts|ar}}|II.||&amp;nbsp;''Sphenophyllales''.
|-
|{{Ts|ar}}|III.||&amp;nbsp;''Lycopodiales''.   ||{{Ts|ar}}|IV.||&amp;nbsp;''Filicales''.
|}

We must bear in mind that throughout the Palaeozoic period,
and indeed far beyond it, vascular plants, so far as the existing
evidence shows, were represented only by the Pteridophyta,
Pteridosperms and Gymnosperms. Although the history of the
Angiosperms may probably go much further back than present
records show, there is no reason to suppose that they were
present, as such, amongst the Palaeozoic vegetation.
Consequently, the Pteridophytes, Gymnosperms and their allies had
the field to themselves, so far as regards the higher plants, and
filled places in nature which have now for the most part been
seized on by families of more modern origin. Hence it is not
surprising to find that the early Vascular &lt;span style=&quot;border-bottom: 1px dashed red;&quot; title=&quot;amended from 'Cryptograms'&quot;&gt;Cryptogams&lt;/span&gt; were,
beyond comparison, more varied and more highly organized than
their displaced and often degraded successors. It is among the
fossils of the Palaeozoic rocks that we first learn the possibilities
of Pteridophytic organization.

I. ''Equisetales''.—This class, represented in the recent flora
by the single genus ''Equisetum'', with about twenty species, was
&lt;!-- column 2 --&gt;
one of the dominant groups of plants in Carboniferous times.
The Calamarieae, now known to have been the chief Palaeozoic
representatives of the Horsetail stock, attained the dimensions
of trees, reaching, according to Grand’ Eury, a height of from
30 to 60&amp;nbsp;metres, and showed in all respects a higher and more
varied organization than their recent successors.
{{EB1911 fine print/s}}
Their remains occur in three principal forms of preservation.
(1) carbonaceous impressions of the leafy branches, the fructifications
and other parts; (2)&amp;nbsp;casts of the stem; these are usually
internal, or ''medullary'' casts, as described above. Around the cast
the organic tissues may be represented by a carbonaceous layer,
on the outer surface of which the external features, such as the
remains of leaves, can sometimes be traced. More usually, however,
the carbonaceous film is thin, and merely shows the impress of the
medullary cast within; (3)&amp;nbsp;petrified specimens of all parts—stem,
roots, leaves and fructifications—showing the internal structure,
more or less perfectly preserved. The correlation of these various
remains presents considerable difficulties. Casts surrounded by
wood, with its structure preserved, have sometimes been found,
and have established their true relations. The position of the
branches is shown both on casts and in petrified specimens, and has
helped in their identification, while the petrified remains sometimes
show enough of the external characters to allow of their
correlation with impressions. Fructifications have often been
found in connexion with leafy shoots, and the anatomical structure
of the axis in sterile and fertile specimens has proved a valuable
means of identification.

In ''habit'' the Calamarieae appear to have borne, on the whole,
a general resemblance to the recent Equisetaceae, in spite of their
enormously greater bulk. The leaves were constantly in whorls,
and were usually of comparatively small size and of simple form.
In the oldest known Calamarian, however, ''Archaeocalamites''
(Devonian and Lower Carboniferous), the leaves were repeatedly
forked. There is evidence that in some, at least, of the Calamarieae
the leaves of each verticil were united at the base to form a sheath.
The free lamina, however, was always considerably more developed
than in the recent family; in form it was usually linear or narrowly
lanceolate. Different genera have been founded on leaf-bearing
branches of Calamarieae; apart from ''Archaeocalamites'', already
mentioned, and ''Autophyllites'' (Grand’ Eury), in both of which the
leaves were dichotomous, we have ''Annularia'', ''Asterophyllites'' and
''Calamocladus'' (in Grand’ Eury’s limited sense), with simple leaves.
In some species of ''Annularia'' the extremely delicate ultimate twigs,
bearing whorls of small lanceolate leaves, give a characteristic
habit, suggesting that they may have belonged to herbaceous
plants; other Annulariae, however, have been traced with certainty
into connexion with the stems of large Calamites. In ''Asterophyllites'',
the generic distinction of which from ''Annularia'' is not
always clear, the narrow linear leaves are in crowded whorls, and
the ultimate branches distichously arranged; in the ''Calamocladus''
of Grand’ Eury—characteristic of the Upper Coal Measures—the
whorls are more remote, and the twigs polystichous in arrangement.
In all these groups a leaf-sheath has been recognized.

The distribution of the branches on the main stem shows
considerable variations, on which genera or sub-genera have been
founded by C.&amp;nbsp;E. Weiss. In ''Archaeocalamites'', which certainly
deserves generic rank, the branches may occur on every node,
but only in certain parts of the stem; the ribs of successive internodes
do not alternate, but are continuous, indicating that the
leaves were superposed. Using ''Calamites'' as a generic name for
all those Calamarian stems in which the ribs alternate at the nodes,
we have, on Weiss’s system, the following sub-genera: ''Stylocalamites'',
branches rare and irregularly arranged; ''Calamitina'', branches
in regular verticils, limited to certain nodes, which surmount
specially short internodes; ''Eucalamites'', branches present on every
node. These distinctions can be recognized on petrified specimens,
as well as on the casts, but their taxonomic value is somewhat
doubtful. In many Calamites there is evidence that the aerial
stem sprang from a horizontal rhizome, as in the common species
''C.''&amp;nbsp;(''Stylocalamites'') ''Suckowi''; in other specimens the aerial stem has
an independent, rooting base.

The ''anatomical structure'' of all parts of the plant is now known,
in various Calamarieae, thanks more especially to the work of
Williamson in England and of Renault in France. The stem has a
structure which may be briefly characterized as that of an ''Equisetum''
with secondary growth in thickness (fig.&amp;nbsp;1, Plate). The usually
fistular pith is surrounded by a ring of collateral vascular bundle,
(see {{EB1911 article link|Anatomy of Plants|Plants}}, and {{EB1911 article link|Pteridophyta}}), each of which,
with rare exceptions, has an intercellular canal at its inner edge,
containing the disorganized spiral tracheae, just as in the recent
genus. The cortex is often preserved; in certain cases it was
strengthened by hypodermal strands of fibres, as in ''Equisetum''.
It is only in the rare cases where a very young twig is preserved
that the primary structure of the stem is found unaltered. In all
the larger specimens a broad zone of wood, with its elements in
radial series, had been added. This secondary wood, in the true
Calamites (''Arthropitys'', Goeppert), has a simple structure
comparable to that of the simplest Coniferous woods; it is made up&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{EB1911 fine print/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3or28z3gna3xff90wd5pp29unk20mty</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:EB1911 - Volume 22.djvu/621</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1862901</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132341</id>
      <parentid>15131013</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:52:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>DivermanAU</username>
        <id>522506</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */ Ophioglossaccae→Ophioglossaceae</comment>
      <origin>15132341</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9016" sha1="fxqw834gv81w2tw1hfsdq1k7yi9j5sz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;DivermanAU&quot; /&gt;{{EB1911 Page Heading|  |PTERIDOPHYTA||605}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Pteria&quot; /&gt;diverted the Persian “royal road” far to the north of its natural
line. This road, in fact, followed an earlier main track whose
ultimate objective had been different.
{{EB1911 fine print/s}}
The remains of Boghaz Keui are indubitably pre-Persian and pre-Greek.
They consist of a large fortified city on a steep slope enclosed
by two deep ravines, and falling to northward over 800&amp;nbsp;ft. from
summit to base. The acropolis was strengthened with a circle of
stone redoubts, between which led very narrow gateways, and with
internal redoubts as well. Just inside what seems to have been its
principal entrance is a rock face inscribed with nine lines of “Hittite”
characters, greatly perished (Nishan Tash), and a similar inscription,
equally illegible, can be detected on a neighbouring rock. Below the
acropolis on the north-east is a residential quarter, containing large
ruins of what seems to have been a palace or temple built round a
central court. The whole site is surrounded by a strong wall, 14&amp;nbsp;ft.
thick, with towers about 100&amp;nbsp;ft. apart. The monument, however,
which earliest rendered Bogaz Keui famous is the sculptured rock
grotto, 1&amp;nbsp;m. to the east, called Yasili Kaya. Here two hypaethral
galleries are adorned with reliefs in panels, the larger gallery
showing two processions, which, starting on both walls from the
entrance, meet at the head of the grotto. On the left wall are
45 figures, headed by a gigantic male figure, erect on the bent necks
of two men. On the right wall he is opposed by a female of almost
equal stature standing on a leopard or lioness, and followed by a
young male with battle-axe, erect on a similar beast. Behind these
are some 20 figures of mitred priests, &amp;c. There can be no doubt
that the female is the great Nature goddess of western Asia, attended
by her spontaneously-generated son, with whose help she creates
the world (see {{EB1911 article link|Great Mother of the Gods}}). Priests or minor
divinities follow them. The other procession, according to the
analogy of other monuments, should be composed of mortals bearing
''sacra'' and headed by their king, who makes offering or dedicates his
city to, or engages in some mystic union with, the goddess. The
figure following him seems to be that of his high priest. “Hittite”
symbols are carved above many of the figures. Besides the processions
there are five independent reliefs in the small gallery and its
approach, one repeating the figure of the high priest.

In 1906, as the result of the discovery of cuneiform tablets at
Boghaz Keui by E. Chantre in 1890, a concession for the excavation
of the site was obtained by the Berlin Oriental Society and H.
Winckler was sent to make a preliminary examination. He found a
number of tablets in two languages, Babylonian and local, the latter
being that of the Arzawa letters found at Tell el-Amarna. Among
them was a cuneiform copy of the treaty made by Rameses II. in
his 20th year with the king of the Kheta, and inscribed on a wall
at Karnak. In 1907 Winckler returned with O. Puchstein and others
and made regular excavations, laying bare much of the fortifications
and two temples, and finding inscribed monuments and many more
tablets. From those written in Babylonian Winckler has established
the fact that Boghaz Keui was the capital of a powerful Hatti
dynasty from the middle of the 16th century {{asc|B.C.}} to at least 1200 {{asc|B.C.}}
He claims further that its ancient name was Hatti. At the height
of its power it ruled all Asia Minor down to the Aegean and northern
Syria to the headwaters of the Orontes, and was also overlord of
the Mitanni and the Amurri (Amarru) in Mesopotamia. It had
continual relation on terms of equality with Egypt and Babylonia.
The four kings of the Kheta, alluded to by name in Egyptian texts,
have been identified with kings of Boghaz Keui. The decline of
Hatti power began with the expansion of Assyria after 1100 {{asc|B.C.}}
and Cappadocia seems to have been inferior to Phrygia after the
rise of the Midaean dynasty in the 9th and 8th centuries. It should
be added that the identification of Boghaz Keui with the Pteria of
Heroditus has not yet been confirmed, and the latter name has been
claimed for a primitive site at Ak-alan near Samsun by Th. Makridi
Bey, as the result of his excavations for the Constantinople Museum
in 1907 (see {{EB1911 article link|Hittites}}).

{{sc|Authorities.}}—C. Ritter, ''Erdkunde'', xviii; C. Texier, ''Descr. de l’Asie''
''Mineure'' (i., 1843); J. Hamilton, ''Researches'', &amp;c. (1842); H. Barth,
''Reise von Trapezunt'', &amp;c. (''Ergänz. Petermann’s Geog. Mith.''; 1860);
G.&amp;nbsp;Perrot and E.&amp;nbsp;Guillaume, ''Expl. arch. de la Galatie'' (1862–1872);
K. &amp;nbsp;Humann and O.&amp;nbsp;Puchstein, ''Reisen in Kleinasien u. Nordsyrien''
(1890); Murray’s ''Guide to Asia Minor'' (1894): G.&amp;nbsp;Perrot and
C.&amp;nbsp;Chipiez, ''Hist. de l’art'' (1886) vol. iv.; Lord Warkworth, ''Notes of a''
''Diary'', &amp;c. (1898); E.&amp;nbsp;Chantre, ''Mission en Cappadocie'' (1898). (For
recent excavations see {{EB1911 article link|Hittites}}.) {{Fs|108%|{{EB1911 footer initials|David George Hogarth|D. G. H.}}}}
{{EB1911 fine print/e}}

&lt;section end=&quot;Pteria&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Pteridophyta&quot; /&gt;'''PTERIDOPHYTA''' (Gr. {{Greek|πτέρις}}, fern, and {{Greek|φυτόν}} plant), or as
they are frequently called, the Vascular Cryptogams, the third
of the large subdivisions of the vegetable kingdom. The Ferns
form the great majority of existing Pteridophytes; the importance
and interest of the other groups, of which the Club-mosses and
Horsetails are the most familiar examples, depend largely on
the fact that they are the surviving representatives of large
families of plants which flourished in earlier geological periods.
(See {{EB1911 article link|Palaeobotany}}.)

{|{{Ts|mc|fs092|lh120}}
|colspan=4|[[Image:EB1911 Pteridophyta - prothalli.jpg|400px]]
|-
|colspan=4 {{Ts|ac}}|{{sc|Fig.}} 1.—Diagrammatic sketches of prothalli of—
|-
| ''a'', ||Equisetum.||''e'', ||Selaginella.
|-
| ''b'', ||Lycopodium cernuum.||''f'', ||Botrychium virginianum.
|-
| ''c'', ||L. phlegmaria.||''g'', ||Helminthostachys.
|-
| ''d'', ||L. clavatum.||''h'', ||A Fern.
|-
|colspan=4 {{Ts|ac}}|''i'', Salvinia. 
|}

The relation which exists between the two alternating stages
&lt;!-- column 2 --&gt;
or generations, which together constitute the complete life-cycle
of all plants higher than the Thallophyta, is perhaps the most
natural characteristic of the Pteridophyta. From the
germinated spore of a fern plant, which must not be
confused with the “seed” of seed-bearing plants, a small, flat,
{{EB1911 Shoulder Heading|width=7|Life history.}}
green organism is developed; this is the prothallus (gametophyte,
sexual generation; fig.&amp;nbsp;7). As the result of fertilization of an
ovum produced by this, the fern plant (sporophyte, asexual
generation) originates; from it spores are ultimately set free,
with the germination of which the life-history again commences.
The point common to all Pteridophyta is that from the first the
gametophyte is an independent organism, while the sporophyte,
though in the first stages of its development it obtains nutriment
from the prothallus, becomes physiologically independent
when its root develops. This independence of the two generations
for the greater part of their lives distinguishes this group
on the one hand from the Bryophyta (in which the sporophyte
is throughout its life attached to the gametophyte), and on the
other hand from the Gymnosperms and Angiosperms (in which
the more or less reduced gametophyte remains enclosed within
the tissues of the sporophyte). The gametophyte, which is
usually dorsiventral, though in some cases radially symmetrical
(fig.&amp;nbsp;1, ''b''), is a small thallus attached to the soil by rhizoids. In
structure it is equally simple, being composed of parenchymatous
tissue without any clearly marked conducting system.
Usually it grows exposed to the light and contains chlorophyll,
but subterranean saprophytic prothalli also occur in the
Lycopodiaceae and Ophioglossaceae (fig.&amp;nbsp;1, ''c'', ''d'', ''f'', ''g'').  In the heterosporous
forms the gametophyte is more or less reduced (fig.&amp;nbsp;1,
''e'', ''i''). The reproductive organs ultimately produced on the same
or on different individuals are of two kinds, the antheridia and
archegonia; the origin of both is from single superficial cells of
the prothallus. The antheridium (fig.&amp;nbsp;8) at maturity consists
of a layer of cells forming the wall which encloses a group of
small cells; from each of the latter a single motile spermatozoid
originates. The archegonium (fig.&amp;nbsp;9) consists of a more or less
projecting neck and the venter, which is usually enclosed by the
tissue of the prothallus. A central series of cells can be distinguished
in it, the lowest of which is the ovum; above this come&lt;section end=&quot;Pteridophyta&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fxqw834gv81w2tw1hfsdq1k7yi9j5sz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:EB1911 - Volume 22.djvu/622</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1862902</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132326</id>
      <parentid>15131014</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:39:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>DivermanAU</username>
        <id>522506</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */ laced→placed; multi-column table for image caption</comment>
      <origin>15132326</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7764" sha1="i6hkhf0opnjuf95bbttjt6kyn0e8e5b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;DivermanAU&quot; /&gt;{{EB1911 Page Heading|606|PTERIDOPHYTA||  }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the ventral canal cell and one or more canal cells. When the
archegonium has opened by the separation of the terminal cells
of the neck, the disintegration of the canal cells leaves a tubular
passage, at the base of which is the ovum (fig.&amp;nbsp;9, ''b''). Down this
canal the spermatozoid, which in the Ferns has been shown to
be attracted by reason of its positive irritability to malic acid,
passes and fuses with the ovum. After fertilization the latter
surrounds itself with a cell-wall and develops into the sporophyte.
The early segmentation of the embryo differs in the
several groups, but usually the first leaf or leaves, the apex of the
stem and the first root are differentiated early, while a special
absorbent organ (the foot) maintains for some time the physiological
connexion between the sporophyte and the prothallus.
The sporophyte is always highly organized both as regards
form and structure. Root, stem and leaf can be distinguished
even in the simplest forms, and the plant is traversed by a
well-developed vascular system. The reproductive organs of the
sporophyte are the sporangia, within which the spores are
produced; the sporangia are often borne on or in relation to
leaves, which may be more or less distinct from the foliage
leaves in form and structure (cf. fig.&amp;nbsp;2). The cells of the wall
of the sporangium are usually so constructed as to determine
the dehiscence of the sporangium and the liberation of its spores.
The spores produced in each sporangium vary from very many
to a single one in the case of some heterosporous forms. These
latter bear spores of two kinds, microspores and megaspores,
in separate sporangia. From the microspore an extremely
reduced male prothallus and from the megaspore the female
prothallus, develops (cf. fig.&amp;nbsp;1,&amp;nbsp;''e''). The spores of the homosporous
Vascular Cryptogams are usually of small size; the prothalli
produced from them usually bear both antheridia and archegonia,
though under special conditions an imperfect sexual differentiation
may result. The complete life-history, with its regular
alternation of gametophyte and sporophyte, is now known in all
except a few rare genera of recent Pteridophyta, and will be
described in connexion with the several groups. A cytological
difference of great importance between the two generations can
only be mentioned in passing. The nuclei of the cells of the
sexual generation possess a definite number of chromosomes
and this number is also characteristic of the sexual cells. On
fertilization the number is doubled and all the cells of the
spore-bearing generation have the double number. On the formation
&lt;!-- column 2 --&gt;
of the spores a reduction to the number characteristic of the
gametophyte takes place.

{|{{Ts|mc|fs09|lh120|width:435px}}
|colspan=6|[[Image:EB1911 Pteridophyta - spore-producing members.jpg|center|390px]]
|-
|colspan=6|{{sc|Fig.}} 2.—Diagrammatic sketches of spore-producing members of—
|-
| ''a'', ||Equisetum.||''d'', ||Ophioglossum.||''g'', ||Nephrodium.
|-
| ''b'', ||Lycopodium.||''e'', ||Kaulfussia.||''h'', ||Salvinia.
|-
| ''c'', ||Psilotum.||''f'', ||Angiopteris.||
|-
|colspan=6|(All except ''d'' represent vertical sections of sporangiophore or sorus.)
|}

The systematic arrangement of the Vascular Cryptogams
for the purposes of identification and description necessarily
remains unchanged, while the comparative morphology
is being more fully worked out. But modifications
in the order of placing the natural groups are of
importance in expressing the results of such investigations.
{{EB1911 Shoulder HeadingSmall|width=7|Classification.}}
Such a scheme may be placed here in a tabular form before
entering on the consideration of the life-history, natural
history, morphology, and classification of the several {{nowrap|groups:—}}
{{EB1911 fine print/s}}
{|{{Ts|mc}} cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot;
|colspan=&quot;2&quot;|'''Pteridophyta.'''
|-
|rowspan=&quot;2&quot; align=&quot;right&quot;|I.
|rowspan=&quot;2&quot;|{{sc|&amp;nbsp;Equisetales}}
|rowspan=&quot;2&quot;|{{brace2|2|l}}
|''Equisetaceae''.
|-
|''Calamariaceae''.
|-
|rowspan=&quot;2&quot; align=&quot;right&quot;|II.
|rowspan=&quot;2&quot;|{{nowrap|{{sc|&amp;nbsp;Sphenophyllales}}&amp;emsp;}}
|rowspan=&quot;2&quot;|{{brace2|2|l}}
|''Sphenophyllaceae''.
|-
|''Cheirostrobaceae''.
|-
|align=&quot;right&quot;|III.
|{{sc|&amp;nbsp;Psilotales}}
|
|''Psilotaceae''.
|-
|rowspan=&quot;4&quot; align=&quot;right&quot;|IV.
|rowspan=&quot;4&quot;|{{sc|&amp;nbsp;Lycopodiales}}
|rowspan=&quot;4&quot;|{{brace2|4|l}}
|''Lycopodiaceae''.
|-
|''Selaginellaceae''.
|-
|''Lepidodendraceae''.
|-
|''Isoetaceae''.
|-
|align=&quot;right&quot;|V.
|{{sc|&amp;nbsp;Ophioglossales}}
|
|''Ophioglossaceae''.
|-
|rowspan=&quot;11&quot; align=&quot;right&quot;|VI.
|rowspan=&quot;11&quot;|{{sc|&amp;nbsp;Filicales}}
|rowspan=&quot;11&quot;|{{brace2|11|l}}
|rowspan=&quot;9&quot;|''Filicaceae''
|rowspan=&quot;9&quot;|{{brace2|9|l}}
|''Marattiaceae''.
|-
|''Osmundaceae''.
|-
|''Schizaeaceae''.
|-
|''Gleicheniaceae''.
|-
|''Matoniaceae''.
|-
|''Loxsomaceae''.
|-
|''Hymenophyllaceae''.
|-
|''Cyatheaceae''.
|-
|''Polypodiaceae''.
|-
|rowspan=&quot;2&quot;|''Hydropterideae''
|rowspan=&quot;2&quot;|{{brace2|2|l}}
|''Salviniaceae''.
|-
|''Marsiliaceae''.
|}

These main subdivisions are of unequal size and importance.
The Sphenophyllales are only known in a fossil state, while the
Equisetales, Lycopodiales and Filicales include both living and
extinct representatives. The small groups of recent plants forming
the Psilotales and Ophioglossales are given independence in this
scheme of classification owing to their exact affinities with the other
phyla being at present doubtful.
{{EB1911 fine print/e}}
I. {{sc|Equisetales}}.—The plants of the single living genus
''Equisetum'', which vary in height from a few inches to 40&amp;nbsp;ft.,
have subterranean rhizomes, from which the erect shoots arise.
The habit of the plant depends on the degree of branching rather
than upon the foliage. The internodes are elongated and
hollow. The leaves are borne in whorls, those of each whorl
cohering, except at their extreme tips, to form a sheath. The
leaves of successive whorls alternate with one another, and this
applies also to the branches which arise in the axil of the leaf
sheath. In most species many of these buds, which alternate
with the leaves, remain dormant, but in others the aerial shoots
are copiously and repeatedly branched. In some species
branches of the rhizome with tuberous internodes are formed,
which serve as a means of vegetative reproduction. The roots
which arise from the base of the lateral buds remain undeveloped
on the aerial stem. The vascular bundles equal in number the
leaf-teeth from which they enter the stem and form a single ring.
Each bundle runs downwards through one internode and then
divides into two branches which insert themselves on the alternating
bundles entering at this node. The young stems, and the
older stems of certain species, are clearly monostelic; but in
other species an inner and outer endodermis may be present,
or an endodermal layer surrounds each bundle. The vascular
bundles themselves are collateral, the xylem consisting of the
protoxylem, towards the centre of the stem, and two groups of
xylem, between which the phloem is situated; the protoxylem
elements soon break down, giving rise to the carinal canal.
Only the median or carinal strand of xylem is common to stem
and leaf; the lateral cauline strands possibly represent the
remains of a centripetally developed mass of primary xylem.
There is no secondary thickening except at the node in ''E.''
''maximum'', where some short tracheides, arranged in radial rows,
arise from a cambium. The stems, the surface of which exhibits
a number of ridges with intervening furrows, perform the greater
part of the work of assimilation. The chlorophyll-containing
tissue reaches the surface at the sides and base of the furrows,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>i6hkhf0opnjuf95bbttjt6kyn0e8e5b</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:EB1911 - Volume 22.djvu/623</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1862905</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132358</id>
      <parentid>6838406</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:03:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>DivermanAU</username>
        <id>522506</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */ inter node→internode; fructiiication→fructification after cf. web.archive.org/web/20120707012752/http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Pteridophyta</comment>
      <origin>15132358</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8556" sha1="7w49j0xmmll0dqvyevc2tuxdzu5fzix" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;DivermanAU&quot; /&gt;{{EB1911 Page Heading|  |PTERIDOPHYTA||607}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;where stomata of peculiar form occur in the epidermis, while
subepidermal strands of sclerenchyma occupy the ridges. In
the cortical tissue beneath each furrow a wide intercellular space
is present running the length of the internode, and called the
vallecular canal. The central cylinder of the root, in which
there are several xylem and phloem strands, has around it a
two-layered endodermis, the inner layer of which appears to
take the place of a pericycle. The sporangia are borne upon
lateral outgrowths of the axis (the sporangiophores), which
arise in whorls and are associated in definite strobili or cones
(fig.&amp;nbsp;3,&amp;nbsp;C); at the base of the cone an outgrowth of the axis like
a rudimentary leaf sheath (the annulus) is present, Each
sporangiophore (fig.&amp;nbsp;3&amp;nbsp;D) consists of a stalk expanding into
a peltate disk of hexagonal outline; from the inner surface of
the latter six to nine large sporangia hang parallel with the stalk.
The single vascular bundle supplies a branch to the base of each
sporangium. The latter arises from a number of superficial
cells, the cells destined to form the spores being derived from a
single one of these. A tapetal layer is derived from the cells
surrounding the sporogenous group, and the arrest of a number
of the spore-mother-cells further contributes to the nourishment
of the remainder, each of which gives rise to four spores. The
outermost layer of the cell-wall of the ripe spore splits along
spiral lines, giving rise to the elaters; these two long strips of
wall, attached by their middle points to the spore, tend to
straighten out in dry, and close round the spore in damp air.
They thus assist in the opening of the sporangium, which takes
place by a slit on its inner face. Further, several spores will be
likely to germinate together owing to their elaters becoming
entangled; a fact of some importance, since the antheridia and
archegonia, though occurring sometimes on the same prothallus,
are more often borne on separate individuals. The prothalli
contain abundant chlorophyll, and are dorsiventral. Those
that bear the antheridia are the smaller, and are either filamentous,
or flattened, and irregularly lobed. The antheridia are
&lt;!-- column 2 --&gt;
deeply sunk in the tissue; the spermatozoids consist of a spiral
of two or three coils, the numerous cilia being attached to the
pointed anterior end. The female prothalli, which are sometimes
branched, consist of a thick cushion bearing thin, erect lobes, at
the base of which the archegonia are situated. The necks
of the latter are short, the central series of cells consisting of
ovum, ventral canal cell and one or two canal cells. The
half of the embryo directed towards the archegonial neck
gives rise to the apex of the stem and a sheath of three leaves,
the other half to the small foot and the primary root. The first
shoots are of limited growth, being replaced by lateral branches,
which gradually acquire the number of leaf-teeth characteristic
of the species.
{{EB1911 fine print/s}}
{|{{Ts|mc}}
|[[Image:EB1911 Pteridophyta - Equisetum maximum.jpg|400px]]
|-
|width=400px|
{{sm|(''C'', ''D'', ''E'' from Strasburger’s ''Lehrbuch der Botanik'', by permission of Gustav Fischer.)}}
|-
|{{Ts|ac}}|{{sc|Fig.}} 3.—''Equisetum maximum''.
|-
|
 A, Longitudinal section of the rhizome, including a node and
portions of the adjoining internodes; ''k'', septum between the two
internodal cavities, ''hh''; ''gg'', vascular bundles; ''l'', vallecular canal;
''s'', leaf-sheath.

 B, Transverse section of the rhizome; ''g'', vascular bundle; ''l'', vallecular
canal.

 C, Fertile shoot showing two leaf-sheaths and the terminal
strobilus.

 D, E, Sporophylls bearing sporangia, which in E have opened.
|}
Fossil species, some of which attained a great size, are known, to
which the name ''Equisetites'' is given, since they appear to be closely
allied to the existing forms. Two other extinct genera, ''Phyllotheca''
and ''Schizoneura'', may be mentioned here. Abnormal specimens of
''Equisetum'' in which the strobilus is interrupted by whorls of leaves
are of interest for comparison with the fructification of ''Phyllotheca''.
The most important and best known of the extinct Equisetales are,
however, the Calamites (see {{EB1911 article link|Palaeobotany}}: ''Palaeozoic''). In the
primary structure of the stem the Calamites present many points
of resemblance to ''Equisetum'', but secondary thickening went on in
both stem and root. These plants, which appear to have grown
in swampy soil, thus attained the dimensions of considerable trees.
The leaves, which were of simple form (except in ''Archaeocalamites'',
where they forked), were inserted in whorls at the nodes; they were
either free from one another or cohered by their bases into a sheath.
The branches alternated in position with the leaves, and sprang
from just above the insertion of the latter. Some of the branches
terminated in cones, which present a general similarity to those of
''Equisetum''. This similarity is closest in ''Archaeocalamites'', an ancient
type found in Upper Devonian rocks; in this the strobilus consists
of peltate sporangiophores inserted in whorls on the axis. In the
other Calamarian strobili known the whorls of sporangiophores are
separated by whorls of bracts. In some the sporangiophores stood
midway between the sterile whorls, while in others they approached
the whorl above or below. There is a close resemblance between
these sporangiophores and those of ''Equisetum'', but as a rule only
four sporangia were borne on each. Some Calamites were heterosporous,
sporangia with microspores and megaspores being found
in the same cone.

Our knowledge of the extinct Equisetales, full as it is with respect
to certain types, does not suffice for a strictly phylogenetic classification
of the group. The usual subdivision is into Equisetaceae
including ''Equisetum'' and ''Equisetites'' (with which ''Phyllotheca'' and
''Schizoneura'' may be provisionally associated), and Calamariaceae,
including ''Calamites'' and ''Archaeocalamites''.
{{EB1911 fine print/e}}
II. {{sc|Sphenophyllales.}}—The two very distinct genera
''Sphenophyllum'' and ''Cheirostrobus'', included in this group, are
known only from the Palaeozoic rocks. Though the high
specialization of this ancient group of plants renders the determination
of their natural affinities difficult, indications are
afforded by anatomy and the morphology of the strobilus.
{{EB1911 fine print/s}}
In general appearance the species of ''Sphenophyllum'' (the remains
of ''Cheirostrobus'' known do not allow of any idea of its habit being
formed) present some resemblances to the Equisetales. The long,
sparingly branched stem bore at the somewhat swollen nodes whorls
of six to eighteen wedge-shaped or linear leaves, which did not alternate
in successive whorls. Both the broader and narrower leaves
may be more or less deeply divided, and both forms may occur on
the same shoot. From the relation of the thickness of the stem to its
length it may be inferred that the shoots of ''Sphenophyllum'' derived
support from adjoining plants. Without entering into detail regarding
the anatomy, it may be stated that secondary thickening took
place in both genera. The single stele in the stem consisted of the
phloem surrounding a solid central strand of xylem, the groups of
protoxylem being situated at the projecting angles. In ''Sphenophyllum'',
in which the transverse section of the xylem is triangular,
there were three or six protoxylem groups; in ''Cheirostrobus'' they were
more numerous. The anatomy of the stem is thus very unlike that
characteristic of the Equisetales, and presents essential points of
resemblance to the Lycopodiales and especially to the Psilotales.
The general morphology of the cones, on the other hand, suggests
some affinity with the Equisetales. The cone of ''Sphenophyllum''
consisted of an axis bearing at the nodes whorls of bracts, united
below into a sheath. The overlapping bracts afforded protection
to the sporangia, which were borne on sporangiophores springing
from the upper surface of the coherent bracts near their origin
from the axis; two sporangiophores usually arose from each bract,
and sometimes adhered to its upper surface for some distance.
Each bent round at the upper end, and bore one or two sporangia
on the side turned towards the axis. The mature sporangium
had a wall of a single layer of cells, which were larger towards the&lt;noinclude&gt;
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  <page>
    <title>Page:EB1911 - Volume 22.djvu/624</title>
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{{EB1911 fine print/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;base, where they continued into the epidermis of the sporangiophore.
In ''Sphenophyllum fertile'' both the ventral lobes of the sporophyll
(corresponding to the sporangiophores in other species) and the dorsal
lobes, which in other species are sterile, were developed as peltate
sporangiophores. In other species of ''Sphenophyllum'', which are
known only as impressions, single sporangia, or groups of four,
appear to have been inserted directly on the upper surface of the
bracts. In ''Cheirostrobus'' a similar relation of sporangiophores to
bracts existed, but here each bract was divided into three segments.
From each segment, near its base, a stalked peltate sporangiophore
arose; this bore four sporangia, which hung parallel to the stalk.
That these three sterile segments, with their sporangiophores, are
together comparable to one of the bracts of ''Sphenophyllum'', with its
sporangiophores, is shown by the vascular supply in each case being
derived from a single leaf-trace. So far as is at present known,
the Sphenophyllales were homosporous. The differences between the
two genera described above are sufficiently marked to justify the
division of the Sphenophyllales into the two orders Sphenophyllaceae
and Cheirostrobaceae. A consideration of the characters of both
shows that the Psilotales are the nearest living representatives of
the Sphenophyllales, while resemblances suggesting actual relationship
exist between this group and the Equisetales and Lycopodiales.
It has been suggested that the Sphenophyllales may have sprung
from a very old stock which existed prior to the divergence of the
latter groups. So long, however, as our knowledge of these phyla
is confined, as at present, to specialized forms, the nature of the
relationship between them must remain to some extent hypothetical.
{{EB1911 fine print/e}}
III. {{sc|Psilotales.}}—The two genera ''Psilotum'' and ''Tmesipteris'',
which are provisionally isolated in this group, have usually been
classed with the Lycopodiales. Recent work both on their
anatomy and on the morphology and structure of their spore-producing
organs has however tended to show that their
peculiarities can be best understood in the light of our knowledge
of the Sphenophyllales. Some authorities place them in this
group and there is much to be said in support of the close relationship
implied. The Psilotaceae, however, differ from the
Sphenophyllales in a number of definite features, such as the
arrangement of the leaves singly and not in whorls, and the mode
of branching. These differences and our comparatively imperfect
knowledge of the Sphenophyllaceous plants which most
closely resemble the Psilotaceae appear to justify the provisional
isolation of the latter as a distinct group, showing affinities with
both the Sphenophyllales and Lycopodiales. In both ''Psilotum''
and ''Tmesipteris'' the functions of the root-system, which is completely
absent, are performed by leafless rhizomes bearing
absorbent hairs and inhabited by an endophytic fungus. ''Psilotum''
lives epiphytically or in soil rich in humus, while ''Tmesipteris''
is epiphytic (and, it has been suggested, partially parasitic)
upon stems of tree ferns: the former has small scale-like leaves;
those of the latter are of considerable size. The stem is monostelic,
the protoxylem groups being towards the periphery of
the xylem, the development of which is thus centripetal; the
centre of the stele is occupied by sclerenchymatous tissue. The
leaves, which bear the sporangia, are dichotomous, and do not
form definite cones, but alternate in irregular zones with the
foliage leaves. The sporophylls may exceptionally undergo
further dichotomies and bear more numerous synangia. The
sporangia of the Psilotaceae are associated in synangia, which
occupy the same position relatively to the sporophyll, as the
single sporangium of ''Lycopodium'' or the group of sporangia in
''Spenophyllum majus''. The careful study of the development
of the synangium of ''Tmesipteris'', which consists of two loculi,
and of ''Psilotum'', which consists of three, has shown that their
structure can be explained as originating by the septation of a
single sporangium resembling that of ''Lycopodium''. Other
views of the nature of the Psilotaceous synangium are, however,
possible, and indeed the existence of both simple and complicated
sporangiophores in the Sphenophyllaceae leaves the question
open as to whether the synangium in existing Psilotaceae is a
relatively simple type of sporangiophore which has persisted
unaltered or is the result of reduction from a more elaborate
structure. There is some reason to believe that the prothallus
of ''Psilotum'' resmbles some ''Lycopodium'' prothalli, but conclusive
evidence is wanting; that of ''Tmesipteris'' is unknown.

IV. {{sc|Lycopodiales.}}—The living representatives of this group
are of small size compared with the related plants which lived in
Palaeozoic times. A large proportion of the living species are
&lt;!-- column 2 --&gt;
tropical, though others have a wide distribution. As general
characteristics of the Lycopodiales, the simple form of the
leaves, which are generally of small size, and the situation
of the sporangia on the upper surface of the sporophylls,
which are often associated in cones, close to their insertion on
the axis, may be mentioned; there are both homosporous and
heterosporous forms, the prothalli exhibiting corresponding
differences. A number of species of ''Lycopodium'' are epiphytic
and those of ''Isoëtes'' live submerged in water. Vegetative
reproduction is effected in various ways: by the separation of
the branches of a creeping stem in some ''Lycopodia'', the persistence
through the winter of the apex of the shoot in ''L. inundatum'',
and by the formation of leafy bulbils on the aerial stem of
''L. Selago'' and others. A highly specialized means of vegetative
reproduction is seen in the tubers of ''Phylloglossum'' and the
embryos of some Lycopods. The modifications shown by the
gametophyte of ''Lycopodium'' will be described below. All such
special relations of the plant to its environment, which might
be expected in the few forms of a large group which has persisted
beyond the others, are less marked in the genus ''Selaginella''.
It would appear as if the latter was more suited to the conditions
of the existing flora, and many of the specific forms within it may
rather be regarded as recently evolved than as simply persistent.
{{EB1911 fine print/s}}
{|{{Ts|mc}} cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot;
|[[Image:EB1911 Pteridophyta - Lycopodium clavatum.jpg|center|360px]]
|-
|width=400px|{{sm|(From Strasburger’s ''Lehrbuch der Botanik''.)}}
|-
|{{ts|ac}}|{{sc|Fig.}} 4.—''Lycopodium clavatum''.
|-
|''A'', Old prothallus.
|-
|''B'', Prothallus bearing young sporophyte.
|-
|{{Ts|al}}|''G'', Portion of a mature plant showing the creeping habit, the&lt;br&gt;adventitious roots and the specialized erect branches bearing the&lt;br&gt;strobili or cones.
|-
|''H'', Sporophyll bearing the single sporangium on its upper surface.
|-
|''J'',&amp;ensp;Spore, highly magnified.
|}
Lycopodiaceae.—This order contains the two genera ''Phylloglossum''
and ''Lycopodium''; the former has a single species, confined to Australia,
Tasmania and New Zealand, while nearly one hundred species of
''Lycopodium'' are known. Erect and creeping terrestrial plants and
pendulous epiphytes occur in the latter genus. The simple leaves,
which are of small size and do not possess a ligule, are arranged
spirally around the branched stem in the majority of the species.
The roots of the erect forms often grow downwards in the cortex
of the stem to reach the soil. The anatomy of ''Lycopodium'' presents
considerable variety in detail, but the stem is always monostelic
and the development of the xylem centripetal, the protoxylems
being situated at the periphery of the stele; pericycle and endodermis
surround the stele, and the wide cortex may be more or less&lt;noinclude&gt;
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{{EB1911 fine print/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;sclerenchymatous. The central cylinder of the root often shows a
striking resemblance to that of the stem. The Lycopodiaceae are
homosporous. The spores are formed in sporangia of considerable size,
situated on the upper surface and near the base of the sporophylls.
The latter may differ from the foliage leaves and be arranged in
definite cones, or the two may be similar and occupy alternate
zones of a shoot with continued growth; sometimes rudiments of
sporangia are found at the bases of the leaves (fig.&amp;nbsp;4). In the
development of the sporangium the sporogenous tissue is derived
from a number of superficial cells by divisions parallel to the surface.
The tapetum is derived from the layer of cells surrounding the sporogenous
group. Short trabeculae of sterile tissue have been found to
project into the cavity of the sporangium of some species. The
spores, when liberated by the dehiscence of the sporangium, give
rise to the prothallus, which is now, owing mainly to the investigations
of Treub and Bruchmann, known in a number of tropical and
temperate species. In habit and mode of life of the prothallus
these present striking differences, which may be correlated with
the situations inhabited by the sporophyte, and are perhaps to be
regarded as adaptations which have enabled the species to survive.
Thus in ''L.&amp;nbsp;cernuum'' and others the prothallus is green and grows
on the surface of the soil (fig.&amp;nbsp;1,&amp;nbsp;''b''); in the species living on the moors
it is subterranean and saprophytic, though sometimes capable of
developing chlorophyll when exposed to light (fig.&amp;nbsp;1,&amp;nbsp;''d''); while in
''L.&amp;nbsp;Phlegmaria'' and other epiphytic forms the prothallus consists of
fine branches growing saprophytically in rotting wood (fig.&amp;nbsp;1,&amp;nbsp;''c'').
A comparison of these various types would appear to indicate that
the primitive form of prothallus in the genus was radially symmetrical
and contained chlorophyll. The prothalli of ''L.&amp;nbsp;cernuum'' come
nearest to this; in them the meristem forms a zone slightly below the
summit, which may bear a number of green lobes. The different
forms of the prothallus found in ''L.&amp;nbsp;Selago'' give an idea of how the
more extremely modified types could be derived from such a prothallus
as that of ''L.&amp;nbsp;cernuum''. All the saprophytic prothalli contain
an endophytic fungus in definite layers of their tissue. The antheridia
and archegonia are produced above the meristematic zone, and
are more or less sunk in the tissues of the prothallus. The most
important difference in the sexual organs concerns the length of the
archegonial neck; this is shortest and has only a single canal cell
in ''L.&amp;nbsp;cernuum'', while in ''L.&amp;nbsp;complanatum'' it is longer than in any other
Vascular Cryptogam, and contains a number of canal cells. The
spermatozoids are biciliate. The embryo in ''L.&amp;nbsp;cernuum'' and other
forms with superficial green prothalli is attached to the prothallus
by a small foot, and develops at first as a tuberous body (the protocorm)
bearing rhizoids; this forms a number of simple leaves, and upon
it the apex of the shoot arises later. In the saprophytic forms the
protocorm is absent, and in some of them the foot is of large size
(fig.&amp;nbsp;4,&amp;nbsp;''B''). When new individuals of species which possess a protocorm
arise vegetatively from the leaves or roots of young plants,
the protocorm appears in the young sporophyte. This fact leads to
the consideration of ''Phylloglossum'', which
resembles the embryo of ''Lycopodium''
''cernuum'' in so many respects that it has
been spoken of as a permanently embryonic
form of Lycopod: it is in some
respects the simplest existing Pteridophyte.
Its prothallus resembles that of
''L.&amp;nbsp;cernuum'', but wants the crown of assimilating
lobes. The plant is reproduced by
tubers, which resemble the protocorm in
bearing first a number of protophylls and
later the upright shoot with its single
terminal strobilus. The sporangia agree
with those of ''Lycopodium'' in structure
and position.

{|align=&quot;right&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; style=&quot;margin-left: 1em&quot;
|[[Image:EB1911 Pteridophyta - Selaginella.jpg|155px]]
|-
|{{Ts|sm|lh110|width:155px|ac}}|(From Strasburger’s ''Lehrbuch der Botanik''.)
|-
|{{Ts|ac}}|{{sc|Fig.}} 5.—''Selaginella''.
|-
|''A'', ''S. helvetica'' (nat. size).
|-
|{{hi|1em|''B'', ''S. denticulata'', young plant attached to the megaspore (enlarged).}}
|}
Selaginellaceae.—The single genus of
this order (''Selaginella'') contains between
three and four hundred species. There
is considerable diversity among them as
regards external form, the majority having
dorsiventral aerial shoots with dimorphic
leaves (fig.&amp;nbsp;5, ''A''), while in others the shoots
are radially symmetrical and the leaves
alike. The stem contains one, two or several
steles; in one species the stele is tubular.
The phloëm completely surrounds the
xylem, which usually develops from two
prot&lt;del&gt;r&lt;/del&gt;oxylem groups. In the aerial stem
of the British species (''S.&amp;nbsp;spinosa'') the
radial stele has a number of protoxylem
groups arranged round the periphery,
much as in ''Lepidodendron''. The cells of
the endodermis are developed as trabeculae,
which traverse the continuous
air-space surrounding each stele. The
simple, uni-nerved leaves have a ligule near the base; the base
of the ligule is somewhat sharply marked off from the other
tissues of the leaf. In some species a depression of the leaf-surface
encloses the ligule, regarding the function of which little is known.
The roots, the stele of which is monarch, may arise directly from
&lt;!-- column 2 --&gt;
the stem, or are borne on rhizophores, which spring from the
shoot at the point of branching, and root on reaching the soil.
In structure they resemble the roots, but their morphological nature
is uncertain. The sporophylls are arranged radially in the cones,
which are terminal on the branches. A single sporangium is borne
on the axis just above the insertion of each sporophyll. ''Selaginella''
is heterosporous, the megasporangia being often found towards the
base of the cone. The development of the micro- and megasporangia
is the same up to the stage of isolation of the
spore mother-cells. The sporogenous tissue, which is referable
to several archesporial cells, is surrounded by a tapetum, mostly
derived from the sporogenous group. In the microsporangium
all the mother-cells undergo the tetrad division, giving rise to the
numerous microspores. In the megasporangium, on the other hand,
the four megaspores, which arise from a single mother-cell, are
nourished at the expense of the other sporogenous cells and of the
tapetum. On germination the microspores give rise to a reduced
prothallus, consisting of the small cell first cut off and a wall of cells
enclosing two to four central ones; from these latter the biciliate
spermatozoids originate. The megaspore becomes filled with the
female prothallus, the formation of cell-walls commencing at the
pointed end of the spore, where from the first the nuclei are more
numerous, and later extending to the base. The surface of the
prothallus, which is exposed when the thick wall of the spore is
ruptured, may produce a few rhizoids; upon it the archegonia, consisting
of a short neck and the central series of ovum, ventral canal
cell and canal cell, arise (fig.&amp;nbsp;1,&amp;nbsp;''e''). After fertilization the embryo
forms a short suspensor; the apex of the stem, with a leaf on each side
of it, is first distinguishable; at the base of this is the foot; while
the root arises on the farther side of the latter. Thus the position
of the root in ''Selaginella'' is different from what obtains in the other
Vascular Cryptogams. A point of interest in this heterosporous
genus is that the formation of the prothallus may commence before
the megaspore is liberated from the sporangium.

Lepidodendraceae.—This order includes only extinct forms, the
best known of which are the plants placed in the genera ''Lepidodendron''
and ''Sigillaria''. These plants, a fuller description of which
must be sought in the article {{EB1911 article link|Palaeobotany}}: ''Palaeozoic'', underwent
secondary increase in thickness and attained the size of large
trees; the aerial stem was more or less branched dichotomously.
The leaves, which were of simple form and provided with a ligule,
were, as the leaf-scars on the stem show, variously arranged. In
''Sigillaria'' the latter form vertical rows, while in ''Lepidodendron''
the arrangement is a complicated spiral. The stem had a single
stele, the primary xylem of which was polyarch and centripetally
developed. The upright stems were attached to the soil by a
number of dichotomously branched members (''Stigmaria''), which,
whatever their morphological nature may be, appear to have performed
the function of roots: they bore numerous cylindrical appendages,
which penetrated the soil on all sides. The cones, which in
some instances at least were heterosporous, presented a general
resemblance to those of ''Lycopodium'' and ''Selaginella'', a single sporangium
being situated on the upper surface of each sporophyll. The
cavities of the large sporangia were sometimes traversed by trabeculae
of sterile tissue resembling those found in ''Isoëtes''. In some of
the heterosporous forms (''Lepidocarpon'', ''Miadesmia'') the sporangia
were sometimes surrounded by an integument; and since only a
single megaspore attained maturity, the structure of the megasporangium
suggests a comparison with an ovule.

Isoëtaceae.—The single genus (''Isoëtes'') contains about fifty, mostly
aquatic, species, though a few are amphibious or terrestrial. The
plants present considerable uniformity in general habit, consisting
of a short, unbranched stem, bearing the closely-crowded awl-shaped
leaves, which in the larger species attain the length of a foot. Each
leaf bears a ligule resembling that of ''Selaginella'' in structure and
position. The stem is monostelic, the centre of the stele being
occupied by a mass of short tracheides; but little can be said as to
the primary structure of the central cylinder, which appears to be
reduced. A meristematic zone forms a short distance outside the
xylem, from which secondary tissue is developed both internally
and externally; that to the inside contains both xylem and phloëm
elements. By the unequal development of the secondary cortex
the stem becomes two- or three-lobed; the roots, which branch
dichotomously, spring from the furrows between the lobes. The
leaves have a single main bundle, and in the mesophyll are four
longitudinal series of large intercellular spaces separated by transverse
diaphragms. The sporangia, which are situated singly on the
adaxial surface of the leaves, between their insertion on the stem and
the ligule, arise from a considerable number of epidermal cells.
The cells composing the young sporangium are at first similar, but
ultimately become differentiated into sterile trabeculae, which may
stretch from the inner to the outer wall, and the mother-cells of the
spores. The latter are more numerous in the microsporangium than
in the megasporangium. The tapetal layer is partly formed from the
sporangial wall and partly as a layer covering the trabeculae. The
spores, which are set free by the rotting of the sporangial wall,
germinate much as in the case of ''Selaginella'', though the similarity
may be a case of independent resemblance. Important points of
difference are found in the multiciliate spermatozoids, and in the
embryo, which has no suspensor.
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Popular Educator Volume 1.djvu/14</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="7944" sha1="i42oz63v7s9cdkmd2czyp59902lzwjq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Megaminxwin&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;LESSONS IN FRENCH.—I 

{{sc|In}} commencing these Lessons in French, instead of beginning with a long chapter exclusively devoted to the pronunciation of words, and the variations which are caused in the sounds of vowels and consonants by changes in their relative position, we have thought it best to enter at once into the construction of the language, and endeavour, without unnecessary delay, in as plain a manner as possible, to make our readers familiar with its various idioms and peculiarities. The Section on French pronunciation will be divided into several portions, one of which will be given at the commencement of each lesson in French, until the subject is exhausted.

SECTION I.—FRENCH PRONUNCIATION.

I. THE FRENCH ALPHABET. 

1. A ''tolerable pronunciation'' of any spoken language may be acquired by ''imitating the sounds of that language'', as uttered by a living teacher. But the ''reading'' and ''writing'' of any language cannot thus be learnt. The pupil must bring into requisition something else besides his ''imitative powers'', if he would thoroughly comprehend any language. The alphabet of the language to be learnt must be exhibited and ''examined'', and then ''mastered''. 

2. An alphabet is a collection of different characters called ''letters'', each of which represents its own peculiar sound. These letters differ from each other in ''name'', ''form'', ''size'', and ''sound''. Used as vehicles of thought, they must not only be familiar to the eye, but their ''use'', both singly and combined, must be understood. 

3. Two objects are to be before the student whilst perusing these preliminary lessons on French pronunciation, namely:— 

First.—The acquisition of the correct pronunciation of the various sounds of the letters of the French alphabet. 

Second.—To learn how to combine and use these sounds, in order to ''read'' the French language easily, intelligibly, and profitably. 

4. The first object will be accomplished ''by the aid of analogous English sounds''; that is, every sound represented by a letter or combination of letters of the French alphabet, will be unfolded, analysed, and defined, as far as possible, by means of analogous sounds of a letter or combination of letters of the English alphabet. 

5. The second object will be accomplished by ''learning a few brief and simple rules'', illustrated and enforced by appropriate examples. 

6. Diligent attention, patient labour, and ''a determination to succeed'', will enable the learner to overcome every obstacle, and thus make him master of a language, not only exceedingly difficult for foreigners to acquire, but beautiful in itself, and co-existent with the triumphs of civilisation.

7. The student's attention is next directed to the French alphabet. While the English alphabet contains twenty-six letters, in the French alphabet there are only twenty-five. It has no letter which corresponds to the English ''w'', though it is occasionally found in French books. It is used only in foreign words, and then pronounced like the English ''v''. 

8. The French alphabet is divided into ''vowels'' and ''consonants''. 

9. {{sc|The Vowels}}.—The vowels are ''six'' in number, namely:—

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;a&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;e&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;i&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;o&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;u&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;y.

10. {{sc|The Consonants}}.—The remaining letters of the alphabet, ''nineteen'' in number, are called consonants, namely :— 

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;b&amp;nbsp;c&amp;nbsp;d&amp;nbsp;f&amp;nbsp;g&amp;nbsp;h&amp;nbsp;j&amp;nbsp;k&amp;nbsp;l&amp;nbsp;m

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;n&amp;nbsp;p&amp;nbsp;q&amp;nbsp;r&amp;nbsp;s&amp;nbsp;t&amp;nbsp;v&amp;nbsp;x&amp;nbsp;z.

11. {{sc|The Compound Vowels}}.—There are seven compound vowels, namely:—

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;ai&amp;nbsp;au&amp;nbsp;eau&amp;nbsp;ei&amp;nbsp;eu&amp;nbsp;oi&amp;nbsp;ou.

They are thus called because, being united together, each vowel loses its own simple sound, and helps to form another new sound. They form but one syllable, and are consequently pronounced by one emission of the voice.

12. {{sc|The Diphthongs}}.—There are ''six'' diphthongs, namely:—

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;ia&amp;nbsp;ie&amp;nbsp;io&amp;nbsp;ua&amp;nbsp;ue&amp;nbsp;ui.

They are thus called because, though pronounced as one syllable, the sound of both vowels is distinctly heard.

The following ''ten'' combinations of ''three successive vowels'' are also called diphthongs, namely:—

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;iai&amp;nbsp;aiu&amp;nbsp;ieu&amp;nbsp;oua&amp;nbsp;oue&amp;nbsp;oui&amp;nbsp;uai&amp;nbsp;uei

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;uie&amp;nbsp;ueu.

These diphthongs are thus divided into syllables:—

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;i-ai&amp;nbsp;i-au&amp;nbsp;i-eu&amp;nbsp;ou-a&amp;nbsp;ou-e&amp;nbsp;ou-i&amp;nbsp;u-ai

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;u-ei&amp;nbsp;u-ie&amp;nbsp;u-eu

They must, however, be pronounced ''quickly'', and as ''one syllable''. 

Sometimes, also, we find ''four successive vowels'' in the same word, namely:—

ouai in the word jou-ai, 

oueu &quot; jou-eur,

ouée &quot; bou-ée.

The first example—ouai, is composed of two compound vowels, viz.: ou and ai. 

The second example—oueu, is also composed of two compound vowels, viz.: ou and eu. 

In the last example—ouée, the final ''e'' is silent, and the three vowels are thus divided, viz.: ou and é. 

13. {{sc|The Vowel Y.}}.—The vowel ''y'' is frequently found combined with other vowels, but in such combinations it is never used as a diphthong. Its use in combination is peculiar, and will be fully explained hereafter.

14. {{sc|The Nasal Vowel Sounds}}.—There are certain sounds called nasal vowel sounds, produced by the combination of the vowels with the consonants ''m'' and ''n'', namely:— 

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;am&amp;nbsp;em&amp;nbsp;im&amp;nbsp;om&amp;nbsp;um&amp;nbsp;ym

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;an&amp;nbsp;en&amp;nbsp;in&amp;nbsp;on&amp;nbsp;un&amp;nbsp;yn.

These sounds will be explained hereafter. 

15. {{sc|The Nasal Diphthongal Sounds}}.—There are also certain sounds called nasal diphthongal sounds, produced by the combination of ''nasal vowel'' sounds with a ''vowel, not nasal'', before them, namely:—

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;ian&amp;nbsp;ien&amp;nbsp;ion&amp;nbsp;uau&amp;nbsp;uiu&amp;nbsp;ouau&amp;nbsp;ouiu.

These sounds will also be explained hereafter. 

16. {{sc|The Liquids}}. The following combinations of the consonants are called liquids, namely: 

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;ll&amp;nbsp;gn. 

The sounds of these liquids are very common in the French language, and will be explained hereafter. 

SECTION II.—THE ARTICLE. 

1. In French the article [§ 13 (2)]* has, in the singular, a distinct form for each gender, as:—

Le fils, ''the son''.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;La fille, ''the daughter, the girl.'' 

Le frère, the brother. La sœur, ''the sister''. 

2. Before a word commencing with a vowel or an ''h'' mute, the final ''e'' or ''a'' of the article ''le'' or ''la'' is cut off, and replaced by an 
apostrophe, leaving the article apparently the same for both genders [§ 13 (7)], as:—

L'aïeul [l(e) aïeul], ''the grandfather''. 

L'aïeule [l(a) aïeule], ''the grandmother''. 

L'hôte [l(e) hôte], ''the landlord''. 

L'hôtesse [l(a) hôtesse], ''the landlady''. 

3. There are in French only two genders, the masculine and the feminine [§ 4]. Every noun, whether denoting an animate or inanimate object, belongs to one of these two genders. 

{{sc|Masc}}. L'homme, ''the man''.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;{{sc|Fem}}. La femme, the woman. 

Le livre, ''the book''.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;La table, ''the table''. 

L'arbre, ''the tree''.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;La plume, ''the pun''. 

Le lion, ''the lion''.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;La lionne, ''the lioness''. 

4. {{sc|Avoir, to have, in the Present of the Indicative}}. 

''Affirmatively''.

{{sc|Sing}}. J'ai, ''I have''. 

Tu as [§ 33 (1) (2)] ''Thou hast''. 

Il a, ''He has''. 

Elle a, ''She has''.  

{{sc|Plur}}. Nous avons, ''We have.''

Vous avez, ''You have.''

Ils ont, m., ''They have.''

Elles ont, f., ''They have.''

&lt;nowiki&gt;*&lt;/nowiki&gt; References thus [§ 13 (2)] refer to Sections in Part II. of these Lessons, but by references in Roman numerals, thus, [Sect. I. 30] the learner is directed to Sections in Part I., the portion of our &quot;Lessons in French&quot; which we are now commencing.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="8420" sha1="hde31p2jjnwi3pwaraiiyr395ui4cm3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Megaminxwin&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;''Interrogatively.''

{{sc|Sing.}}

Ai-je? ''Have I?''

As-tu? ''Hast thou?''

A-t-il? ''Has he?''

A-t-elle? ''Has she?''

{{sc|Plur.}}

Avons-nous? ''Have we?''

Avez-vous? ''Have you?''

Ont-ils? m. ''Have they?''

Ont-elles? f. ''Have they?''

5. The ''e'' of the pronoun ''je'' is elided, when that pronoun comes 
before a vowel or an ''h'' mute, and replaced by an apostrophe, as
J'ai [J(e)ai], I have, as above [§ 146].

6. In interrogative sentences, when the third person singular of a verb ends with a vowel, and is immediately followed by a pronoun, the letter ''t'', called ''euphonic'' [Sect. I. 30], must be placed between the verb and the pronoun, and joined by two hyphens, as:—

A-t-il? ''Has he?''&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;A-t-elle? ''Has she?''

{{sc|Résumé of Examples.}}

Le père a la viande, vous avez le café, et j'ai l'eau. ''The father has the meat, you have the coffee, and I have the water.''

L'homme a le pain, l'enfant a le sel, et nous avons le poivre. ''The man has the bread, the child has the salt, and we have the pepper.''

{{sc|Vocabulary.}} 

Avoine, f., ''oats''.

Blé, m., ''wheat''.

Boucher, m., ''butcher''.

Boulanger, m., ''baker''.

Cheval, m., ''horse''.

Et, ''and''.

Farine, f., ''flour''.

Frère, m., ''brother''.

Livre, m., ''book''.

Madame, ''Madam''.

Mademoiselle, ''Miss''.

Meunier, m., ''miller''.

Monsieur, ''Mr., Sir''.

Non, ''no''.

Oui, ''yes''.

Pain, m., ''bread''.

Plume, f., ''pen''.

Qui, ''who''.

Sel, m., ''salt''.

Seulement, ''only''.

Table, f., ''table''.

Thé, m., ''tea''.

Viaude, f., ''meat''.

Vin, m., ''wine''.

Vinaigre, m., ''vinegar''.

{{sc|Obs.}}—Note and remember that the noun livre, ''book'', is masculine, but the nouns livre, ''a pound'' (in weight), and livre, a piece of money equivalent to a franc, are feminine.

{{sc|Exercise 1.}}

''To be translated into English.''

1. Qui a le pain? 2. Le boulanger a le pain. 3. A-t-il la farine? 4. Oui, Monsieur, il a la farine. 5. Avons-nous la viande? 6. Oui, Monsieur, vous avez la viande et la pain. 7. Le meunier a la farine. 8. Le boulanger a la farine et le blé. 9. Avons-nous le livre et la plume? 10. Oui, Mademoiselle, vous avez le livre et la plume. 11. Le boucher a la viande. 12. Le meunier a la viande et j'ai le café. 13. Avez-vous l'eau et le sel? 14. Oui, Monsieur, nous avons l'eau, le sel, et l'avoine. 15. Avons-nous le thé? 16. Non, Monsieur, la fille a le thé, le vinaigre, et le sel. 17. Ai-je le vin? 18. Non, Madame, vous avez seulement le vinaigre et la viande. 19. Avez-vous la table? 20. Oui, Madame, j'ai la table.

{{sc|Exercise 2.}}

''To be translated into French.''

1. Have you the wheat? 2. Yes, Sir, I have the wheat. 3. Who has the meat? 4. The butcher has the meat and the salt. 5. Has he the oats? C. No, Madam, the horse has the oats. 7. Have we the wheat ? 8. You have the wheat and the flour. 9. Who has the salt ? 10. I have the salt and the meat. 
11. Have we the vinegar, the tea, and the coffee? 12. No, Sir, the brother has the vinegar. 13. Who has the horse? 14. The baker has the horse. 15. Have we the book and the pen? 16. No, Miss, the girl has the pen, and the miller has the book. 17. Have you the table, Sir? 18. No, Sir, I have only the book. 19. Who has the table? 20. We have the table, the pen, and the book. 

SECTION III.-THE ARTICLE (''Continued''). 

1. The article ''le'', with the preposition ''de'' preceding, must be 
contracted into ''du'', when it comes before a word in the ''masculine'' singular, commencing with a consonant or an ''h'' aspirated 
[§ 13 (8) (9)], as:—

Du frère, ''of the brother''.

Du château, ''of the castle''. 

Du héros, ''of the hero''. 

Du chemin, ''of the way''. 

2. Before ''feminine'' words, and before masculine words commencing with a vowel or an ''h'' mute, the article is not blended 
with the preposition, as:—

De la dame, f., ''of the lady''.

De l'argent, m., ''of the money''.

De l'amie, f., ''of the female friend''.

De l'honneur, m., ''of the honour''.

3. In French, the name of the possessor follows the name of 
the object possessed [§ 76 (10)], as:—

La maison du médecin, ''The physician's house''.

L'arbre du jardin, ''The tree of the garden''.

La lettre de la sœur, ''The sister's letter''.

4. The name of the material of which an object is composed always follows the name of the object; the two words being connected by the preposition ''de'' [§ 76 (11)], as:—

L'habit de drap, ''The cloth coat''.

La robe de soie, ''The silk dress''.

La montre d'or, ''The gold watch''.

{{sc|Résumé of Examples.}}

Le tailleur a l'habit de drap du médecin. ''The tailor has the physician's cloth coat.''

Vous avez la lettre de la sœur du boulanger. ''You have the baker's sister's letter (the letter of the sister of the baker).''

A-t-il le livre de la dame? ''Has he the lady's book?''

{{sc|Vocabulary.}}

Argent, m., ''silver, money''.

Bas, m., ''stocking''.

Bois, m., ''wood''.

Chapeau, m., ''hat''.

Charpentier, m., ''carpenter''.

Cordonnier, m., ''shoemaker''.

Coton, m., ''cotton''.

Couteau, m., ''knife''.

Cuir, m., ''leather''.

Dame, f., ''lady''.

Drap, m., ''cloth''.

Foin, m., ''hay''.

Habit, m., ''coat''.

Laine, f., ''wool''.

Médecin, m., ''physician''.

Montre, f., ''watch''.

Or, m., ''gold''.

Porte-crayon, m., ''pencil-case''.

Robe, f., ''dress''.

Satin, m., ''satin''.

Sœur, m., ''sister''.

Soie, f., ''silk''.

Soulier, m., ''shoe''.

Table, f., ''table''.

Tailleur, m., ''tailor''.

{{sc|Exercise 3.}}

''To be translated into English.''

1. Avez-vous la montre d'or? 2. Oui, Madame, j'ai la montre d'or et le chapeau de soie. 3. Monsieur, avez-vous le livre du tailleur? 4. Non, Monsieur, j'ai le livre du médecin. 5. Ont-ile le pain du boulanger? 6. Ils ont le pain du boulanger et la farine du meunier. 7. Avez-vous le porte-crayon d'argent? 8. Oui, Monsieur, nous avons le porte-crayon d'argent. 9. Avons-nous l'avoine du cheval? 10. Vous avez l'avoine et le foin du cheval. 11. Qui a l'habit de drap du charpentier? 12. Le cordonnier a le chapeau de soie du tailleur. 13. Le tailleur a le soulier de cuir du cordonnier. 14. Avez-vous la table de bois? 15. Oui, Monsieur, j'ai la table de bois du charpentier. 16. Ont-ils le conteau d'argent? 17. Ils ont le couteau d'argent. 18. Le frère du médecin a la montre d'argent. 19. La sœur du cordonnier a la robe de soie. 20. A-t-elle le soulier de cuir? 21. Non, Madame, elle a le soulier de satin. 22. Avons-nous le bas de laine? 23. Non, Monsieur, vous avez le bas de soie du tailleur. 24. Qui a le bas de coton? 25. Le médecin a le bas de coton. 26. La dame a le soulier de satin de la sœur du boulanger.

EXERCISE 4. 
To be translated into French. 
1. Have you the tailor's book? 2. No, Sir, I have the physician's watch. 3. Who has the gold watch ? 4. The lady has the gold watch and the silver pencil-case. 5. Have you the tailor's shoe ? 6. I have the tailor's cloth shoe. 7. Have we the wooden table? 8. Yes, Sir, you have the wooden table.
9. Have they the silver knife ? 10. They have the silver knife. 11. The lady has the silver knife and the gold pencil-case. 12. Has she the satin dress? 13. The physician's sister has the satin dress. 14. Who has the wood? 15. The carpenter's brother has the wood. 16. Have you the woollen stockings? 17. No, Sir, I have the cotton stockings. 18. Who has the baker's bread ? 19. We have the baker's bread and the miller's flour. 20. Have we the horse's hay? 21. You have the horse's oats. 22. Have we the tailor's silk hat ? 23. Yes, Sir, you have the tailor's silk hat and the shoemaker's leather shoe. 24. Have you the cloth shoe of the physician's sister? 25. No, Madam, I have the lady's silk dress. 

LESSONS IN GEOGRAPHY.—I. 

EARLY NOTIONS; THE GEOGRAPHY OF THE SCRIPTURES.

{{sc|The}} term Geography is derived from two Greek words, ''γη'', the earth, and ''γραφη'', a description (pronounced ''ghee'' and ''gra-phe''), and simply means ''a description of the earth's surface''; it is therefore rightly applied to that science which treats of the natural outline and extent, the political division and constitution, the civil and social condition, and the industrial wealth and population of the various countries, kingdoms, and states which have appeared, or which now exist on the face of the globe. Geography includes also the description of the form of the earth, its&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="7201" sha1="jqd3szqh1ssseadfw31o41ecc4aepbt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Megaminxwin&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;LESSONS IN FRENCH.—II.

SECTION I.—FRENCH PRONUNCIATION (''continued'').

II. FRENCH ACCENTS.

17. {{sc|The}} constant use of certain marks called ''accents'' in the French language constitutes a marked peculiarity which cannot escape the attention of the student. Rarely, except in elementary works of the English language, is the syllable of any given word which requires an emphasis marked.

18. But it is not so in the French language: here, accents of various kinds are constantly meeting the eye on every page. One thing, however, must be observed, namely:—the position of the accent ''does not always and infallibly mark the syllable of a word'' which must receive the stress of voice in common pronunciation.

19. Modern French grammarians have established the following rule, namely:—''to place the stress of voice on the last pronounced syllable of every word''.

20. A slight inspection only of the following examples will illustrate the above remarks.

&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;1. Dé-vo-rer (pronounced Day-vo-ray).

The first syllable of this word is marked with an accent; must the stress of the voice, therefore, be placed upon the syllable ''de?'' No: if the rule be applied to this word, the stress of voice falls on the ''last'' syllable, ''rer''.

It will then be asked, What is the use of this accent? We answer, ''It modifies the sound of the vowel over which it is placed''.

2. Lé-gère-ment (pronounced Lay-zhair-mo''n'', with the sound of the final ''n'' suspended).

Again, the word used now as an example has the same kind of an accent as the word used in the previous example had; and also, it is placed of the same vowel. But it has ''another different accent'' over the first vowel of the second syllable; and, according to the rule, the stress of voice is not placed either upon the first or second syllable, but upon the last.

The second accent (observe its form and position) only serves ''to modify the sound of the vowel over which it is placed''. Sometimes, however, an accent is placed over a vowel of the syllable which, according to the rule, receives the stress of voice, viz.:—Cé-lé-bri-té.

3. Bâ-ti-ment (pronounced Bat-tee-mo''n'', with the sound of the final ''n''&lt;nowiki&gt;*&lt;/nowiki&gt; stopped).

Again, in the word used here as an example, a third and still different accent is placed over the vowel ''a''. Its presence affects ''the sound of that vowel only''. It has nothing whatever to do with the proper accent of that word, as the term ''accent'' is understood when applied to words in the English language. As a general rule, the stress of voice is not so strong in the French as in the English language.

21. Accents, therefore, as used in the French language, are certain marks differing from each other, and placed over certain ''vowels only'', for specific purposes.

22. There are three accents, viz.:—

´ called the Acute accent (thus, é)

` &quot; Grave &quot; (&quot; è)

^ &quot; Circumflex &quot; (&quot; â)

23. The acute accent is used ''only'' over the vowel ''e'', and serves two purposes:

First, to modify its sound.

Secondly, to mark the existence of a distinct and final syllable, as:—

Dé,

Pé-tar-dé,

Trom-pé,

Cér-é-mo-nie.

24. The grave accent is used ''only'' over the vowels ''a'', ''e'', and  ''u'', as,

à, Père, Où,

and serves two purposes:

First, to modify the sound of the vowel ''e''.

Secondly, to distinguish one part of speech from another; thus,

''a'' is a verb.

''à'' &quot; preposition.

''la'' is an article.

''là'' &quot; adverb.

''ou'' is a conjunction.

''où'' is an adverb.

25. The circumflex accent is the union of the acute and grave accents, and is placed over each of the vowels except ''y''. It indicates that the letter over which it is placed ''has a sound twice as long as it has without it'', vis.:—

Âge, Bête, Bûche, Côte, Gîte, Mê-lée, Tête.

This accent also indicates the suppression of the letter ''s, after the vowel over which it is placed;'' thus

Bête, Fête, Tête,

were formerly written

Beste, Feste, Teste.

The ''s'' was not sounded, but gave to the preceding vowel that prolonged sound now represented by the circumflex accent.

The circumflex accent also serves to distinguish parts of speech from each other; thus,

''Crû'' is a participle from the verb ''croítre''.

''Cru'' is a noun and adjective.

''Dû'' is a participle from the verb ''devoir''.

''Du'' is an article and noun.

''Sûr'' is an adjective.

''Sur'' is a preposition.

''Tû'' is a participle from the verb ''taire''.

''Tu'' is a pronoun.

26. Besides the kinds of accents just enumerated, certain other marks or signs are used, called

Cedilla, Diæresis, Hyphen, and Apostrophe.

The {{sc|Cedilla}} (ç) is a peculiar mark, somewhat resembling a figure 5 inverted, ''and placed only under the letter c,'' before the vowels ''a'', ''o'', and ''u'', thus: ''ç''.

It indicates that the letter ''c'' under which it is placed, has the soft sound of ''ss'', as in the word ''lesson'':—

Çà pronounced ssà.

Deçà &quot; dus-sà.

Façade &quot; fas-sad.

Façonner, pronounced fas-son-nay.

Maçon &quot; mas-son.

Reçu &quot; rus-su.

27. The {{sc|Diæresis}} (¨) consists of two dots placed ''over'' the vowels ''e'', ''i'', and ''u''. It shows that the vowel over which it is placed is pronounced separately from the preceding vowel, thus indicating, in reality, a distinct syllable, as:—

Naïveté pronounced Na-ive-té.

Ouïr &quot; Ou-ir.

Poëte &quot; Po-ete.

28. The {{sc|Hyphen}} (-) is a short horizontal mark, which is used to connect words and syllables, as:—

A-t-il, Belles-lettres, Celui-ci, Demi-kilomètre, Fait-on, Suis-je, Très-rarement.

Its use in connecting syllables is precisely the same as in the English language; that is, when a word is divided, so that a part of it is at the extreme right hand of a line, and the rest at the extreme left of the line following.

29. The {{sc|Apostrophe}} (') is like a comma placed at the upper and of letters instead of at the lower end, or at the bottom on a line with the lower end.

Its use is to show the elision, or cutting off, of a vowel before words commencing with a vowel or ''h'' mute, and is much used in the French language, as:—

L'ami, instead of le ami.

L'église &quot; la église.

L'homme, instead of le homme.

S'il &quot; si il.

30. The {{sc|Euphonic T}} is thus called on account of its peculiar position between two parts of speech, vis., the verb and the pronoun.

It is used ''only'' in asking questions, and then a hyphen is placed both before and after it, thus:—

A-t-elle? A-t-il? Ira-t-on? Demande-t-on? Parle-t-il? Va-t-on? prouve-t-il?

This letter cannot be translated, because it has no meaning. It is thus used merely for the sake of euphony, or agreeable sound.

31. {{sc|Parenthesis and Punctuation.}}—In the French language, the marks used in punctuation, etc., are the same, and used for the same purposes, as in the English language. (''See'' {{sc|Reading and Elocution.}})

SECTION IV.—THE ARTICLE USED PARTITIVELY.

1. The article, preceded by or contracted with the preposition ''de'' [Sect. III. 1, 2], is placed in French before words used in a partitive sense. Such words may generally be known in English&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="8899" sha1="e06xtdsdxeddweqxh97e3qz9rqpb6qw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Megaminxwin&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nop}}when ''some'' or ''any'' is or may be prefixed to them [§ 13 (10), § 78 (1)].

Du pain&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Bread'', or ''some bread''.

De la viande&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Meat'', or ''some meat''.

De l'argent&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Money'' or ''some money''.

2. The French numeral adjective ''un'', m., ''une'', f., answers to the English indefinite article ''a'' or ''an'' [§ 13 (4) (11)].

Un homme&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''A man.''

Une femme&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''A woman.''

3. The ''e'' of the preposition ''de'' is elided before ''un'' and ''une'' [§ 146], and replaced by an apostrophe.

D'un livre, m.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Of'' or ''from a book''.

D'une maison, f.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Of'' or ''from a house''.

4. When the nominative or subject of an interrogative sentence is a noun, it should be placed before the verb; and immediately after the verb in simple tenses, and after the auxiliary in compound tenses, a pronoun must be placed agreeing with the nominative in gender, number, and person [§ 76 (4) (5)].

Le médecin a-t-il de l'argent?&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Has the physician money?''

Le boucher a-t-il de la viande?&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Has the butcher meat?''

Le libraire a-t-il du papier?&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Has the bookseller paper?''

La dame a-t-elle de la soie?&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Has the lady silk?''

{{sc|Résumé of Examples.}}

Avez-vous du pain?&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Have you bread?''

Vous avez du pain, du beurre, et du fromage.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''You have bread, butter, and cheese.''

Votre frère a-t-il une livre de beurre?&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Has your brother a pound of butter?''

Avez-vous le livre du libraire?&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Have you the bookseller's book?''

Non, j'ai le livre de la dame.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''No, I have the lady's book.''

La sœur du médecin a-t-elle du papier et de l'encre?&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Has the physician's sister paper and ink?''

5. It will be seen, by some of the above examples, that the article must be repeated before every noun used in a partitive sense.

{{sc|Vocabulary.}}

Acajou, m., ''mahogany''.

Acier, m., ''steel''.

Aujourd'hui, ''to-day''.

Encre, f., ''ink''.

Epicier, m., ''grocer''.

Fils, m., ''son''.

Fourchette, f., ''fork''.

Fromage, m., ''cheese''.

Gant, m., ''glove''.

Beurre, m., ''butter''.

Bière, f., ''beer''.

Bœuf, m., ''beef''.

Libraire, m., ''bookseller''.

Livre, m., ''book''.

Livre, f., ''pound''.

Morceau, m., ''piece''.

Papier, m., ''paper''.

Café, m., ''coffee''.

Cuiller, f., ''spoon''.

Dé, m., ''thimble''.

Plume, f., ''pen''.

Sucre, m., ''sugar''.

Vin, m., ''wine''.

Votre, ''your''.

Thé, m., ''tea''.

{{sc|Exercise 5.}}

1. Avez-vous de la viande? 2. Oui, Monsieur, j'ai une livre de viande. 3. Votre fils a-t-il un morceau de pain? 4. Oui, Madame, il a un morceau de pain. 5. Le libraire a-t-il un livre? 6. Il a de l'encre et du papier. 7. Votre sœur a-t-elle une montre d'or? 8. Elle a une montre d'or et un dé d'argent. 9. Le boulanger a-t-il du vin ou de la bière? 10. Le boulanger a du thé et du café. 11. Votre frère a-t-il du fromage? 12. Il a du fromage et du beurre. 13. La dame a-t-elle une cuiller d'argent? 14. La dame a une cuiller et une fourchette d'argent. 15. Le boucher a-t-il de la viande aujourd'hui? Oui, Monsieur, il a un morceau de bœuf. 17. Le charpentier a-t-il une table? 18. Oui, Monsieur, il a une table d'acajou. 19. Avez-vous le livre du médecin? 20. Non, Madame, mais j'ai le livre de votre sœur. 21. Qui a du café et du sucre? 22. L'épicier a du café et du sucre. 23. La sœur du libraire a-t-elle un gant? 24. Non, Monsieur, mais elle a un livre. 25. A-t-elle une plume d'acier? 26. Non, Monsieur, elle a une plume d'or. 27. Vous avez le porte-crayon du médecin.

{sc|Exercise 6.}}

1. Have you any tea? 2. Yes, Madam, I have a pound of tea. 3. Who has bread? 4. The baker has bread, butter, and cheese. 5. Has the tailor cloth? 6. The tailor has a piece of cloth. 7. Has the physician gold? 8. Yes, Sir the physician has gold and silver. 9. Has the lady a silver watch? 10. Yes, Miss, the lady has a silver watch and a gold pen. 11. Has your sister silk? 12. Yes, Sir, she has silk and cotton. 13. Have you a knife? 14. Yes, Sir, I have a steel knife and a silver fork. 15. Have you meat to-day, Sir? 16. Yes, Sir, I have a piece of beef. 17. Has your carpenter a mahogany table? 18. Yes, Sir, he has a mahogany table. 19. Has your sister a glove? 20. Yes, Sir, my sister has a silk glove. 21. Has the bookseller's son a gold pencil-case? 22. Yes, Sir, he has a gold pencil-case and a steel pen. 23. Who has your sister's watch? 24. Your brother has the gold watch and the silk hat. 25. We have gold, silver, and steel. (''See'' Rule 5.)

{{sc|SECTION V.—THE NEGATIVES, etc.}}

1. To render a sentence negative, ''ne'' is placed before the verb, and ''pas'' after it.

Je n'ai pas le cheval.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''I have not the horse.''

Vous n'avez pas la maison.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''You have not the house.''

2. When the verb is in a compound tense [§ 45 (8)], the first negative ''ne'' is placed before the auxiliary, and the second between the auxiliary and the participle.

Je n'ai pas eu le cheval.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''I have not had the horse.''

Vous n'avez pas eu la maison.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''You have not had the house.''

3. It will be seen in the above examples that the ''e'' of ''ne'' is elided, and replaced by an apostrophe, when the verb begins with a vowel. [§ 146].

4. When the words ni, ''neither;'' rien, ''nothing;'' jamais, ''never;'' personne, ''no one, nobody,'' occur, the word ''ne'' only is used, and those words take the place of ''pas'' [§ 41 (3)].

Je n'ai ni le livre ni le papier. ''I have neither the book nor the paper.''

Avez-vous quelque chose? ''Have you anything?''

Nous n'avons rien. ''We have nothing,'' or ''not anything.''

Personne n'a le livre. ''No one has the book.''

Vous n'avez jamais le couteau. ''You never have the knife.''

5. A noun used in a partitive sense (Sect. IV. 1), and being the object of a verb, conjugated negatively, should not be preceded by the article, but by the preposition ''de'' only [§ 78 (7)].

Nous n'avons pas d'argent. ''We have no money.''

Vous n'avez pas de viande. ''You have no meat.''

6. Quelqu'un, ''some one, any one'' [§ 41 (7)]; quelque chose, ''something, anything,'' should only be used in an affirmative or interrogative sentence, or in a sentence which is negative and interrogative at the same time.

Avons-nous quelqu'un? ''Have we any one?''

Avez-vous quelque chose? ''Have you anything?''

N'avons-nous pas quelque chose? ''Have we not something?''

7. In a negative sentence, ne—personne, signifies ''nobody, not anybody;'' and ne—rien, ''nothing, not anything''.

Je n'ai personne. ''I have no one, not any one.''

Vous n'avez rien. ''You have nothing,'' or ''not anything.''

8. {{sc|Avoir, to have, in the Present of the Indicative.}}

''Negatively.''

{{sc|Singular.}}

Je n'ai pas, ''I have not.''

Tu n'as pas, ''Thous hast not.''

Il n'a pas, ''He has not.''

Elle n'a pas, ''She has not.''

{{sc|Plural.}}

Nous n'avons pas, ''We have not.''

Vous n'avez pas, ''You have not.''

Ils n'ont pas, ''They,'' m., ''have not.''

Elles n'ont pas, ''They,'' f., ''have not.''

''Negatively and Interrogatively.''

{{sc|Singular.}}

N'ai-je pas? ''Have I not?''

N'as-tu pas? ''Hast thou not?''

N'a-t-il pas? ''Has he not?''

N'a-t-elle pas? ''Has she not?''

{{sc|Plural.}}

N'avons-nous pas? ''Have we not?''

N'avez-vous pas? ''Have you not?''

N'ont-ils pas? ''Have they,'' m., ''not?''

N'ont-elles pas? ''Have they,'' f., ''not?''

{{sc|Résumé of Examples.}}

Le tailleur a-t-il le bouton? ''Has the tailor the button?''

Le tailleur n'a pas le bouton. ''The tailor has not the button.''

Il n'a pas eu le drap. ''He has not had the cloth.''

Il n'a eu ni le drap ni le cuir. ''He has neither the cloth not the leather.''

Ai-je de la viande? ''Have I meat?''

Vous n'avez pas de viande. (R. 5.) ''You have no meat.''

Avons-nous quelque chose? ''Have we anything?''

Nous n'avons rien. ''We have nothing,'' or ''not anything.''

Nous n'avons jamais de café. (R. 5.) ''We never have coffee.''

{{sc|Vocabulary.}}

Ami, m., ''friend.''

Angleterre, f., ''England.''

Aussi, ''also.''

Autre, ''other.''

Chapelier, m., ''hatter.''

Chien, m., ''dog.''

Coton, m., ''cotton.''

Cousin, m., ''cousin.''

Deux, ''two.''

Drap, m., ''cloth.''

Du tout, adv., ''at all.''

France, f., ''France.''

Histoire, f., ''history.''

Libraire, m., ''bookseller.''

Marchand, m., ''merchant.''

Mon, m., ''my.''

Ni, conj., ''neither, nor.''

Personne, m., ''nobody.''

Quelque chose, m., ''something, anything.''

Quelqu'un, m., ''some one, any one.''

Soie, f., ''silk.''

Velours, m., ''velvet.''

Voisin, m., ''neighbour.''

{{sc|Exercise 7.}}

1. Le chapelier a-t-il de la soie? 2. Le chapelier n'a pas de soie, mais il a du velours. 3. A-t-il du velours de coton?&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{#babel:en-n}}
;Here and other places
* [[User:RaboKarbakian/Bibliographies|Bibliographies and the like]]
* [[User:RaboKarbakian/Books|Books]]
* [[User:RaboKarbakian/Species|Species]]
* [[User:RaboKarbakian/Field Guide|Field Guide]]
* [[Portal:Houghton, Mifflin &amp; Co./The Riverside Literature Series|Literature Cut-and-Paste]]
* [[User:RaboKarbakian/Office supply|Office supply]]
* [[User:RaboKarbakian/Trial and error]]
* [[User:RaboKarbakian/Calendar]]


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== Big beautiful book projects ==

First of all, I’ve sent for the book. Hopefully it will be sent, but if it’s rare enough it might not be. [I myself own a few of the old readers, but not this 1930 example.] I ''have'' been dealing with “book projects,” but unfortunately not much in the way of “big beautiful.” Lots of text, not a lot of images. And when there are images, they are not all that interesting. Your three other Rackhams have been sitting in unprocessed requests because they’re all too rare and won’t come out of special collections. For your scanning example, I would recommend scanning in a (small) public-domain book as an example, as I don’t quite understand your explanation and wouldn’t want you to needlessly violate the law. For some of the Rackhams, I’ve been waiting on SnowyCinema to develop his QuickProofread system, which would really help with, ''e.g.'', ''The Castle Inn'' (one image, 371 pages of novel). Most of my scanning right now is developed towards a book with a lot of images, although they’re not all that interesting: ''Japanese'', the U.S. government’s official, 21-volume guide to the language. I’m going to combine all of the volumes into one part once I’m finished with scanning. The only other of my recent uploads (I’m a little behind on it because I keep finding new projects) is [[Index:Compendium Maleficarum.djvu]]—there are already images on Commons, but they’re not very good. I can upload the images if you would be interested. Another thing I almost forgot: a few years ago, I sent in requests for a number of Rackham’s early works in ''Little Folks'', but they’ve been ignored for a while. I asked my ILL contact to put them through again, and one came back! [[:File:Reginald's Comic Song (The Songs of Simple Simon).pdf]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:16, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:In these last few years, when I can understand the &quot;not letting the old books into the public&quot; ([[Raggedy Ann's Alphabet Book]] had [[Page:Raggedy Anns Alphabet-1925.djvu/25|blue crayon scribbles]] throughout), I have been imagining going to these universities and scanning them while there.  

:The scans at Hathi, some of them are from a university close to me and while they are good scans for the text, they are terrible for the images.  How they got to Hathi is left to the imagination except for the watermarks that were left on them.  It looks like a big google project.  And the scans are consistent and can be easily deconstructed because of this consistency.  But the beautiful books; the image heavy books, and especially the important books like ''Fun with Dick and Jane'' and the ''Little House'' books--in the late 1990s my friend had a scanner that would scan 1200dpi.  She, and later me, were so new to computers then; and the home computers then were also really cranky about working with files that large.  600dpi is great!  1200dpi for Dick and Jane seems like a good idea though, when you think of the generations that learned from them; the Roosevelt and Eisenhauer youth.  Probably they stopped using them, but maybe not.  I have no idea how little kids learn to read these days.  But, I ramble.

:I can well imagine small groups in a wikimedia project, touring their local universities, armed with disposable white gloves, having appointments with the universities libraries and one of the great scanners there and rescanning the beautiful books that are there.  

:The magazines too!  Every magazine I spend time with here, I find something very interesting in the ads.  Example: &quot;101 ways to use a pencil&quot; back when they were a new invention, for example.  What a great document that must be!  Maybe somewhere at that company (which still exists and makes pencils) has an old copy of it.

:Inside, I ''piff'' a bit when I see kids stuff, it is an AdultExceptionalism. The child inside ''piff''s a bit also, because the new stuff isn't Captain Kangaroo (CaptKangarooExceptionalism?).  When I was working on the books that I thought were PD, I started to remember the Captain reading them to me; feeling so sad when Choo Choo lost his tender.  Those were formative years where I really wanted to learn to read. I never knew that there were Raggedy Ann books, but along with that patent, I discovered an industry.  Who knew?  My ''piffs'' are not so loud any longer.  At the least, Dick and Jane deserve a good publicly available scan.

:Big books!  I got a handful of Watty Piper books that were too big for my scanner before I had the idea for the top and bottom scanning and I turned them back.  I should get those back and scan them now; refine the script.  I am pretty sure I made a djvu of Katy and the Big Snow, it was rough but useable.  

:I will do whatever images you need, happily.  I am going to download that ''Little Folks'' pdf today.  I am going to keep imagining going to Calvin University and scanning Dick and Jane.  My dutch friend never heard of Calvin; I was surprised.  Also, good to know that Snowy hasn't completely disappeared.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 13:28, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:*He’s been a bit on-and-off lately, but he’s definitely still around. Most of the books on HathiTrust are imported from Google Books, which allows more ready attribution to the universities from which the books were scanned. The scanner I used years ago had dedicated DPI settings, but it was a lot harder to scan actual books, as opposed to loose pieces of paper. The new scanner, which is the freely available one at the local college, had generically named “Standard,” “High,” and “Photo” levels—I scan the text in “High” PDF, and the images in “Photo” TIFF. You could probably figure out what those levels of quality mean by looking at the scans. Funnily enough about the white gloves, the practice on that has changed: unless the books is metallic or poisonous, you’re not supposed to use them. For the newspaper letters, you’d be surprised what they let go. I just got to see a letter from Coca-Cola, urging businesses to keep buying their products—despite the reduced sugar content, done to help with the war effort. Despite how cool it is, and how big the company is, they don’t actually have a copy of it! The nice thing about the books in general collections is that they’ll be shipped out—that’s how I got [[Arabian Nights (Sterrett)|Sterrett’s ''Arabian Nights'']], after all, although was in somewhat poorly condition. I had a book shipped for one of the items on my requests page, and it’s unfortunately just too large for my scanner. The images are in [[:Category:Compendium Maleficarum images]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 18:31, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
:*Another one, from the same issue: [[:File:The Maker of Ghosts and the Maker of Shadows, 2 (April 1896).pdf]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 21:09, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:::We did this one already [[The Land of Enchantment/The Maker of Ghosts and the Maker of Shadows]].  It is good to have the issue date!--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 11:47, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
I am right now very confused about ''Little Folks'' from USA and ''Little Folks'' from Britain.  I am thinking that these two (three if you count the first Simple Simon) are from the British mag due to authors/illustrators and the date which is a year before wikipedia claims that the American LF started.  I guess I need confirmation before I start making and moving things.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 12:49, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
*[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]]: Based on metadata from the actual scan I was shipped, it’s the British one. In any case, Rackham would have had no connection with the United States at this early date. Also, for “The Maker of Ghosts,” I put the “2” in the title because it’s the second part (the first part having been published in an earlier issue). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:35, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
*Two more Rackham ''Little Folks'' items: [[:File:The Terrible Trouble of Forty Winks.pdf]] (the last part of “The Maker of Ghosts”) and [[:File:The Mines of Experience.pdf]] (in two parts). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:48, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
::I have uploaded djvus.  [[Index:The Mines of Experience-1896.djvu]] and [[Index:The Terrible Trouble of Forty Winks.djvu]]--I feel clueless about how to deal with them here and at wikidata.  I rarely feel this &lt;u&gt;much&lt;/u&gt; cluelessness.  I still need to do the images for Forty-Winks but I am pretty sure that the images from the book are better than anything I can do with the pdf.  I am going to work on the Art Songs, which I am the regular amount of clueless about.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 16:48, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
*Also, could you create the three images ([[Page:Art Songs of Japan.djvu/5|1]], [[Page:Art Songs of Japan.djvu/34|2]], [[Page:Art Songs of Japan.djvu/36|3]]) from ''Art Songs of Japan'', please? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 17:51, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
::That &quot;2&quot; is music notation; are you sure you want that via pixel manipulation?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 19:15, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
::*Yes; unlike the music in the rest of the book, which is intended to be read, this music is just advertisement for other sheet music. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 23:02, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
:::I accidentally chopped about &quot;an inch&quot; of the cover off when I was working on this.  If you find it to be too annoying, I can surely put the two pieces back together.  And of course, the wikisourcerer musicians do not do adverts here!--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 16:48, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
*Your images (for ''Art Songs'') look fine; I didn’t even notice the crop. I’ve just finished proofreading the two new Rackham ''Little Folks'' indices, but I’ve left the transclusion for you as well as I see that you have begun putting these works under the work title. I noticed the images for the ''Compendium Maleficarum'' pages which I have proofread; could you add the illustrated border to the image on the title page, please? I have finally finished scanning the text of my longest-running project (21 vols.), and now just need to scan the images from the last volume in high quality. I also need to go back and get some of the volumes I had scanned, as the copy from which I scanned was missing a few pages. Then, I just need to find a way to combine 5,000-odd pages’ worth of PDFs…. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:23, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
::About Art Songs: when I looked at the IA cropped image (included in the djvu) apparently they cropped at the same place.  Also, the line at that edge is on the original and is only close to where I accidentally cropped (yes, a little defensive here) and truly on the original.  Anyway, it has been repaired/fixed and is good now.

::About ''Little Folks'': I did the image for Forty Winks and it looks pretty good for having started with a bitonal scan.  That being said, there is something between me and commons right now and I will get to them as soon as I have direct access, which will not be today.  Without the Volume number, I feel like I am well, to quote an old joke &quot;farting in the general direction of&quot; where to put those.  So, I will start my day with them, not end it and that should help some with my disorientation.  Pretty silly, I guess but there you go.
:::[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] So, I woke up this morning ''certain'' I would find the volume information in the Rackham bibliography.  I did not find it, then I screwed up the Compendium index and now I learn (and should have known) that The Mines has two additional images.  I am frustrated and also being frustrating!  So, two more images and I really should check that other bibliography (it had a better listing iirc.) So, sorry and sorry and better days to everyone!--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 14:10, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
:::*I checked both bibliographies that we have ([[Arthur Rackham: A Bibliography|Latimore and Haskell, 1936]] and [[Arthur Rackham: His Life and Work/Appendix C|Rota in Hudson, 1960]]), but neither gives the volume and issue information. Latimore and Haskell has more detailed information on each item, while Rota has very minimal information but his list is more complete. (I would also like to go through and try to Wiki-link the references in these two lists, like you’ve done for the books in Latimore and Haskell.) [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:59, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
::I had forgotten about that border!  Things were working more bad than the usual on that computer.  When I tried to reboot, there was an mDNS job that was preventing it.  Not being online or on the internet at all, I got pretty frustrated with this and have started removing software.  Anyway, soon with that too!  Thanks for the reminder.  

::I think that pdf job sounds just great!  Especially as the scanning is already done.  Let me do it, please!  3 volumes at a time, we could get it done in 2 weeks or so I guess.  I could work on that while you are scanning the images.  Just volunteering.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 14:10, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
::*I thank you for your volunteering! I still need to clean up the scan before I combine and upload it; there are a few pages missing here and there, and volume 2 probably needs to be completely re-done as the copy from which I was scanning was missing about 50 pages. For ''Little Folks'', unfortunately little is known, and the existence of an American periodical of that name just makes things worse. I really need to finish it up next month; I hope, sooner rather than later. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:46, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
::*I’ve finally combined the book: [[Index:Japanese.pdf]]. (5292 pages and 21 volumes—about a year and a quarter of scanning, on and off, altogether.) I have already uploaded some of the images [https://archive.org/details/JBC_DLI_images here]; I can upload the remaining images as an update to that listing, as that would probably be the easiest way of going about this. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 03:26, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::When you mentioned this project, 21 volumes in one file is something I did not imagine.  I am so impressed that the wiki can handle it!  Just to make sure, did you want the pdf to be 21 separate djvu?  

:::I have bad news about all the computer here.  They are all breached.  I start them up and the $35 pi and the old clangy borrowed laptop, which both make much noise, stop making noise early in the boot process.  It is creepy for me to use them like this and also, people think I am that stupid.  It is not stupidity (not knowing) but ignorance (knowing and working with them anyways) that I am using either one of them.  This is not a long no, but it is a not like this.  The information that I have about who is on the other side of these hack is &quot;spineless twits who will not or cannot ask before taking and who will not or cannot own their own actions&quot;.  I cannot take on a big job like this with all the creepy I have here.  Given more information, that feeling might change.  So not &quot;no&quot; but &quot;not in this situation&quot;.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 10:37, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::*I’m fine without the DJVU files in this case, as I used PDF as it was more available. If you can work out the images separately that would be appreciated, but while the images are interesting they aren’t a huge demand. For that future time, by the way, would it work for me to upload them to the images directory on Internet Archive (the one that already has some of them)? The better to get them off of my computer. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:13, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::IA is fine.  Downloadable in one file is really good!  It would be nice for an option to download a zipped category from wikimedia sites!  I've been paying google $20 a year so that I can provide files to be downloaded.  I cannot recommend that.  A very bad experience.  But yes, IA is fine.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 13:42, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Okay, I don't know where in the distance between me and IA that people are pasting their faces into my work; but those images I looked at seemed to be not that kind of image.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 14:04, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
*Could you create the few images from [[Les Mouches Fantastiques (amateur journal)/March 1920|here]]? The other four issues don’t have any images. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 18:47, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
*I’ve just finished proofreading the text of ''[[Compendium Maleficarum]];'' would you mind finishing up the images from it? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:47, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

== Duplicated ID's.. ==

[[Page:St. Nicholas (serial) (IA stnicholasserial321dodg).pdf/391]] You have a duplicated ID. This was why it was removed. Perhaps you can check your anchors are in fact unique over a transclusion?[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:18, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] You were right.  It needed to be &quot;on&quot; but I changed everything to &quot;lr&quot;.  Not &quot;wi&quot; at all! Thanks for the check-up!--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 14:23, 15 April 2025 (UTC)


== Strand Magazine ==

I realise the concept of who ''owns'' different texts on this site can be rather fraught, but I have put quite a lot of work into ''The Strand Magazine'' since becoming active on the site (and it's a text that I've worked on electronically in different forms and on different sites for 20 years (!) ), including creating the contents pages for the first 10 volumes, codifying the formatting styles, cropping processing and uploading the images for the first 6 volumes, and doing the vast majority of the proofreading on the project over the last three years (including completely proofreading and transcluding the first 31 issues). As a result, I do feel some sense of 'ownership' over the look and feel of ''The Strand Magazine''.

As a result, I have reverted your edits to [[The Strand Magazine]] main page, which seem to have been in order to add a link to an alternate edition of a work which also appeared in ''The Strand Magazine'' in a different form (but the ''Strand Magazine'' version of which has not been proofread), and because you disagreed with the way I formatted the main page. 

When we get around to proofreading the ''Strand Magazine''s version of that work, we will add it to ''The Strand Magazine'' page. Until then it will not appear. When it does appear, the link to ''The Strand Magazine's'' version can be put in the disambiguation page. 

On the formatting of the main page, I consider that your change made it look materially worse. You may like 500 red links on a page, but I don't. There is some good work on some of the later volumes of ''Strand Magazine'' which I have been monitoring and which does need to be on the main page, but I need to properly write the contents pages for those editions so that it fits the formatting of the first 10 volumes. 

I saw in the Scriptorium that you had a post about your ideas about how serial publications should look, and given the nature of the site there are a *lot* of moribund periodicals where I'm sure having a more consistent system is a good idea, but I'm currently quite happy with how the periodicals that *I'm* working on are looking, so I'll keep them the way they were until we have some much larger site-wide discussion about how periodicals should look (you can see on my user page which periodicals I'm currently working on - some purely as a contributor, and some as a higher-level organiser).

[[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 07:42, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:[[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]]: It was (well, is) beautiful but it is not functional except as a presentation that makes it look as if there is nothing to be done there.  It isn't the way of things here.  One should be able to visit any journal here and expect to see approximately the same thing.  That I can paste links to any first publication of a work any where except The Strand is weird and somewhat wrong.  Hiding the red links is a en.wikipedia way but this is en.wikisource.

:That was the third H. G. Wells original publication I found that came from The Strand.  There are prolific people here who transcribe articles before the source is available here and keeping track of them is a pain.  Almost every wikipedia rule I have butted heads with (on wiki that are not en.wikipedia) cause research to be researched and researched and researched.

:I know I don't &quot;own&quot; magazines here, but I have recently been making ''many'' of them look like the existing magazines here.  Also, the original work at the Strand was accomplished by a lot of people and kindly software, who are not you. Which involves a lot more than the formatting of the main page.

:Please, two things!

# [[Scriptorium#Magazines,_Newspapers_and_other_works_with_many_volumes]] comment or if your wikipedia ways are so strong &quot;vote&quot; there, where I told all of my plans and was open for comments.
# Tell me of the already authored articles which exist below the namespace [[The Strand Magazine]] and when and how you found them and your plans for remembering them.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 11:51, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
#:Thank you - I have replied to some of your thoughts in your post on the Scriptorium.
#:I am very aware that the work on ''The Strand Magazine'' involves a lot of work other than formatting of the main page. Almost all of this (aside from the glory hunters who proofread the Sherlock Holmes stories) in volume 2-6 has been by me, at least in the last 2-3 years. 
#:On point (2), respectfully, I will be doing this myself. [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 16:08, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

== Clipper of the Clouds / Master of the World ==

If ''Clipper of the Clouds'' was published in 1887, surely it can't include ''Maître du monde'' as that was not until 1904 ? 

Also, wikipedia has the article without the leading &quot;The&quot; which matches the French title. Should it have &quot;The&quot; ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:06, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

:[[User:Beardo|Beardo]] For sure you know more about this than I do.  I am sorting through the mess at wikidata.  &quot;full work&quot; pointing to a german translation.  &quot;open library&quot; pointing to a 2003 spanish paperback edition.  etc.  I will remove the Clipper and move it to something &quot;the-less&quot;.

:wikidata is complaining because 1904 is greater than the last year of the publisher of Voyages Extraodi-something french.  Do you know anything about that?  I might just leave that for someone who knows French business or at least can speak french.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 19:15, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::I really only know what I have read here and there. ''Clipper of the Clouds'' appears to be a tran;ation of ''Robur the Conqueror'' - and I guess there is confusion because some editions of ''Master of the World'' include both books.
::According to [[w:Voyages extraordinaires]], they continued up to 1905, (and beyond with works completed by Verne's son) - so that seems to be an error in wikidata. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:09, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:::For the publisher, like many companies, it was started by a person and used his name.  But when he died, the publishing company continued.  Almost all of the data are linking to that person so I am relinking to his company.  That really happened often.

:::And yes, the son finished some and re-worked others.  I am not sure how to reflect this at wikidata, and I really don't want to get involved with this now.  It is a good research project for someone, though.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 20:51, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

== [[Author:Walter Noble Burns]] ==

I see that you noted him as Lebanese/American. According to wikipedia, he was born in [[w:Lebanon, Kentucky]] - I don't think that makes him Lebanese. --  [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:07, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
:Oops! I apparently read the wikidata entry without clicking on it to see which city. I am on an upload flurry and on a mobile device; can you fix that? It is clearly wrong. Thanks for finding it.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 21:16, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::Done. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:39, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

== Class block ==

I noticed you adding these in Billy the Kid. What do they do ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:46, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Two things: 1) it adds some space between the header and the start of the text, which I like; and more importantly 2) it controls the page breaks for the exporter.

:{{tl|class block}} grabs instruction from styles.css. --[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian#top|talk]]) 11:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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      <text bytes="4013" sha1="3izkoqukc1q5adiobnqjwokkoiamg41" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh||THOMAS ERSKINE.|281}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;which the orator must have felt to exist at the moment, between himself and his audience, this singular effort must have been fatal to the cause it was designed to support; as it was, however, the sensation produced by these words, and the look, voice, gesture, and whole manner of the speaker, were tremendous. The result is well known; but it may not be equally well known that Dr Johnson himself, notwithstanding his hostility to the test laws, was highly gratified by the verdict which was obtained: &quot;I am glad,&quot; said he, &quot;that lord George Gordon has escaped, rather than a precedent should be established of hanging a man for constructive treason.&quot;

In 1783, Mr Erskine received the honour of a silk gown: his majesty's letter of precedency being conferred upon him at the suggestion of the venerable lord Mansfield. In the same year he was elected member of parliament for Portsmouth.

The defence of John Stockdale, who was tried for publishing a libel against the commons house of parliament, has been pronounced the first in oratorical talent, and is certainly not the last in importance of Mr Erskine's speeches. This trial may be termed the case of libels, and the doctrine maintained and expounded in it by Stockdale's counsel is the foundation of that liberty which the press enjoys in this country. When the house of commons ordered the impeachment of Warren Hastings, the articles were drawn up by Mr Burke, who infused into them all that fervour of thought and expression which ever characterized his compositions. The articles, so prepared, instead of being confined to the records of the house until they were carried up to the lords for trial, were printed and allowed to be sold in every bookseller's shop in the kingdom, before the accused was placed upon his trial; and undoubtedly, from the style and manner of their composition, made a deep and general impression upon the public mind against Mr Hastings. To repel or neutralize the effect of the publication of the charges, Mr Logan, one of the ministers of Leith, wrote a pamphlet, which Stockdale published, containing several severe and unguarded reflections upon the conduct of the managers of the impeachments, which the house of commons deemed highly contemptuous and libellous. The publisher was accordingly tried, on an information filed by the attorney-general. In the speech delivered by Mr Erskine upon this occasion, the very highest efforts of the orator and the rhetorician were united to all the coolness and precision of the ''nisi prius'' lawyer. It was this rare faculty of combining the highest genius with the minutest attention to whatever might put his case in the safest position, which rendered Mr Erskine the most consummate advocate of the age. To estimate the mightiness of that effort by which he defeated his powerful antagonists in this case, we must remember the imposing circumstances of Mr Hastings' trial, the &quot;terrible, unceasing, exhaustless artillery of warm zeal, matchless vigour of understanding, consuming and devouring eloquence, united with the highest dignity,&quot; to use the orator's own language which was then daily pouring forth upon the man, in whose defence Logan had written and Stockdale published. It was &quot;amidst the blaze of passion and prejudice,&quot; that Mr Erskine extorted that verdict, which rescued his client from the punishment which a whole people seemed interested in awarding against the reviler of its collective majesty. And be it remembered, that in defending Stockdale, the advocate by no means identified his cause with a defence of Hastings. He did not attempt to palliate the enormities of the governor-general's administration; he avowed that he was neither his counsel, nor desired to have any thing to do with his guilt or innocence; although in the collateral defence of his client, he was driven to state matters which might be considered by many as hostile to the impeachment. Our gifted countryman never perverted his transcendant talents&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="3585" sha1="ifsa27fpcda6q802ob0goxg6a8pd3p2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|282|WILLIAM FALCONER.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;by devoting them to screen villany from justice, or to the support of any cause which he did not conscientiously approve. His speech for the defendant at the trial of a case of adultery in the court of king's bench, may be considered as an exception to this remark. It must not be forgotten that it was delivered in behalf of a gentleman of high family who had been attached to a young lady, his equal in years and birth, but was prevented from marrying her by the sordid interference of her relatives, who induced or rather constrained her to an alliance with a nobler house. The marriage was, as might have been anticipated, a most unhappy one, and the original attachment seems never to have been replaced by any other, and ultimately produced the elopement which occasioned the action. Mr Erskine does not affect to palliate the crime of seduction ; on the contrary, he dwells at length on the miserable consequences occasioned by this crime ; but, after having adverted with exquisite delicacy to the sacrifice of affection and enjoyment which had been made in this case, he charges the plaintiff with being the original seducer of a woman, whose affections he knew to be irretrievably bestowed upon and pledged to another. 

In 1807, Mr Erskine was exalted to the peerage by the title of lord Erskine of Restormal castle, in Cornwall, and accepted of the seals as lord high chancellor; but resigned them on the dissolution of the short lived administration of that period, and retired upon a pension of £4000 per annum. Prom that time to the period of his death, his lordship steadily devoted himself to his duties in parliament, and never ceased to support, in his high station, those measures and principles which he had advocated in his younger years. It is deeply to be regretted, that, by an unhappy second marriage and some eccentricities of conduct, very incompatible with his years and honours, this nobleman should have at once embittered the declining years of his own life, and tarnished that high and unsullied character which he had formerly borne in public estimation. His death was produced by an inflammation of the chest, with which he was seized while on the voyage betwixt London and Edinburgh. He was landed at Scarborough, and proceeded to Scotland by short stages, but died on the 17th of November, 1823, at Ammondell house. Mr Erskine's peculiar sphere seems to have been oratorical advocacy; his appearance as a senator never equalled that which he made at the bar. Nor is he entitled, as a political writer, to much distinction. His pamphlet, entitled &quot;A View of the Causes and Consequences of the War with France,&quot; which he published in support of Mr Fox's principles, indeed, ran through forty-eight editions; but owed its unprecedented sale more to the spirit of the times and the celebrity of its author's name, than to its own intrinsic merit. The preface to Mr Fox's collected speeches was also written by him, as well as a singular political romance, entitled &quot;Armaba,&quot; and some spirited pamphlets in support of the Greek cause. 

By his first wife, lord Erskine had three sons and five daughters. The eldest of his sons, David Montague, now lord Erskine, was for some time member plenipotentiary to the United States, and afterwards president at the court of Wirtemberg. 

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[[author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|FALCONER, {{sc|William}}]], author of &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck, a poem]],&quot; was born in Edinburgh about the year 1730. His father was a barber and wig-maker, in a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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In 1807, Mr Erskine was exalted to the peerage by the title of lord Erskine of Restormal castle, in Cornwall, and accepted of the seals as lord high chancellor; but resigned them on the dissolution of the short lived administration of that period, and retired upon a pension of £4000 per annum. Prom that time to the period of his death, his lordship steadily devoted himself to his duties in parliament, and never ceased to support, in his high station, those measures and principles which he had advocated in his younger years. It is deeply to be regretted, that, by an unhappy second marriage and some eccentricities of conduct, very incompatible with his years and honours, this nobleman should have at once embittered the declining years of his own life, and tarnished that high and unsullied character which he had formerly borne in public estimation. His death was produced by an inflammation of the chest, with which he was seized while on the voyage betwixt London and Edinburgh. He was landed at Scarborough, and proceeded to Scotland by short stages, but died on the 17th of November, 1823, at Ammondell house. Mr Erskine's peculiar sphere seems to have been oratorical advocacy; his appearance as a senator never equalled that which he made at the bar. Nor is he entitled, as a political writer, to much distinction. His pamphlet, entitled &quot;A View of the Causes and Consequences of the War with France,&quot; which he published in support of Mr Fox's principles, indeed, ran through forty-eight editions; but owed its unprecedented sale more to the spirit of the times and the celebrity of its author's name, than to its own intrinsic merit. The preface to Mr Fox's collected speeches was also written by him, as well as a singular political romance, entitled &quot;Armaba,&quot; and some spirited pamphlets in support of the Greek cause.

By his first wife, lord Erskine had three sons and five daughters. The eldest of his sons, David Montague, now lord Erskine, was for some time member plenipotentiary to the United States, and afterwards president at the court of Wirtemberg.

{{c|{{larger|F}}}}

[[author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|FALCONER, {{sc|William}}]], author of &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck, a poem]],&quot; was born in Edinburgh about the year 1730. His father was a barber and wig-maker, in a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="3664" sha1="32tqk7kl88sglg3u9yoe2kiyuqnom8l" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|282|WILLIAM FALCONER.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;by devoting them to screen villany from justice, or to the support of any cause which he did not conscientiously approve. His speech for the defendant at the trial of a case of adultery in the court of king's bench, may be considered as an exception to this remark. It must not be forgotten that it was delivered in behalf of a gentleman of high family who had been attached to a young lady, his equal in years and birth, but was prevented from marrying her by the sordid interference of her relatives, who induced or rather constrained her to an alliance with a nobler house. The marriage was, as might have been anticipated, a most unhappy one, and the original attachment seems never to have been replaced by any other, and ultimately produced the elopement which occasioned the action. Mr Erskine does not affect to palliate the crime of seduction; on the contrary, he dwells at length on the miserable consequences occasioned by this crime; but, after having adverted with exquisite delicacy to the sacrifice of affection and enjoyment which had been made in this case, he charges the plaintiff with being the original seducer of a woman, whose affections he knew to be irretrievably bestowed upon and pledged to another.

In 1807, Mr Erskine was exalted to the peerage by the title of lord Erskine of Restormal castle, in Cornwall, and accepted of the seals as lord high chancellor; but resigned them on the dissolution of the short lived administration of that period, and retired upon a pension of £4000 per annum. Prom that time to the period of his death, his lordship steadily devoted himself to his duties in parliament, and never ceased to support, in his high station, those measures and principles which he had advocated in his younger years. It is deeply to be regretted, that, by an unhappy second marriage and some eccentricities of conduct, very incompatible with his years and honours, this nobleman should have at once embittered the declining years of his own life, and tarnished that high and unsullied character which he had formerly borne in public estimation. His death was produced by an inflammation of the chest, with which he was seized while on the voyage betwixt London and Edinburgh. He was landed at Scarborough, and proceeded to Scotland by short stages, but died on the 17th of November, 1823, at Ammondell house. Mr Erskine's peculiar sphere seems to have been oratorical advocacy; his appearance as a senator never equalled that which he made at the bar. Nor is he entitled, as a political writer, to much distinction. His pamphlet, entitled &quot;A View of the Causes and Consequences of the War with France,&quot; which he published in support of Mr Fox's principles, indeed, ran through forty-eight editions; but owed its unprecedented sale more to the spirit of the times and the celebrity of its author's name, than to its own intrinsic merit. The preface to Mr Fox's collected speeches was also written by him, as well as a singular political romance, entitled &quot;Armaba,&quot; and some spirited pamphlets in support of the Greek cause.

By his first wife, lord Erskine had three sons and five daughters. The eldest of his sons, David Montague, now lord Erskine, was for some time member plenipotentiary to the United States, and afterwards president at the court of Wirtemberg.
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&lt;section begin=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;[[author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|FALCONER, {{sc|William}}]], author of &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck, a poem]],&quot; was born in Edinburgh about the year 1730. His father was a barber and wig-maker, in a
&lt;section end=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="3722" sha1="jp18i0njlj565g0kpt0n6fckvmvka2m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|282|WILLIAM FALCONER.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Erskine, William&quot; /&gt;by devoting them to screen villany from justice, or to the support of any cause which he did not conscientiously approve. His speech for the defendant at the trial of a case of adultery in the court of king's bench, may be considered as an exception to this remark. It must not be forgotten that it was delivered in behalf of a gentleman of high family who had been attached to a young lady, his equal in years and birth, but was prevented from marrying her by the sordid interference of her relatives, who induced or rather constrained her to an alliance with a nobler house. The marriage was, as might have been anticipated, a most unhappy one, and the original attachment seems never to have been replaced by any other, and ultimately produced the elopement which occasioned the action. Mr Erskine does not affect to palliate the crime of seduction; on the contrary, he dwells at length on the miserable consequences occasioned by this crime; but, after having adverted with exquisite delicacy to the sacrifice of affection and enjoyment which had been made in this case, he charges the plaintiff with being the original seducer of a woman, whose affections he knew to be irretrievably bestowed upon and pledged to another.

In 1807, Mr Erskine was exalted to the peerage by the title of lord Erskine of Restormal castle, in Cornwall, and accepted of the seals as lord high chancellor; but resigned them on the dissolution of the short lived administration of that period, and retired upon a pension of £4000 per annum. Prom that time to the period of his death, his lordship steadily devoted himself to his duties in parliament, and never ceased to support, in his high station, those measures and principles which he had advocated in his younger years. It is deeply to be regretted, that, by an unhappy second marriage and some eccentricities of conduct, very incompatible with his years and honours, this nobleman should have at once embittered the declining years of his own life, and tarnished that high and unsullied character which he had formerly borne in public estimation. His death was produced by an inflammation of the chest, with which he was seized while on the voyage betwixt London and Edinburgh. He was landed at Scarborough, and proceeded to Scotland by short stages, but died on the 17th of November, 1823, at Ammondell house. Mr Erskine's peculiar sphere seems to have been oratorical advocacy; his appearance as a senator never equalled that which he made at the bar. Nor is he entitled, as a political writer, to much distinction. His pamphlet, entitled &quot;A View of the Causes and Consequences of the War with France,&quot; which he published in support of Mr Fox's principles, indeed, ran through forty-eight editions; but owed its unprecedented sale more to the spirit of the times and the celebrity of its author's name, than to its own intrinsic merit. The preface to Mr Fox's collected speeches was also written by him, as well as a singular political romance, entitled &quot;Armaba,&quot; and some spirited pamphlets in support of the Greek cause.

By his first wife, lord Erskine had three sons and five daughters. The eldest of his sons, David Montague, now lord Erskine, was for some time member plenipotentiary to the United States, and afterwards president at the court of Wirtemberg.
&lt;section end=&quot;Erskine, William&quot; /&gt;
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&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;[[author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|FALCONER, {{sc|William}}]], author of &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck, a poem]],&quot; was born in Edinburgh about the year 1730. His father was a barber and wig-maker, in a
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      <text bytes="3720" sha1="m8qlk4l57hvi34ewuyl25vlma6efa0c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|282|WILLIAM FALCONER.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Erskine, Thomas&quot; /&gt;by devoting them to screen villany from justice, or to the support of any cause which he did not conscientiously approve. His speech for the defendant at the trial of a case of adultery in the court of king's bench, may be considered as an exception to this remark. It must not be forgotten that it was delivered in behalf of a gentleman of high family who had been attached to a young lady, his equal in years and birth, but was prevented from marrying her by the sordid interference of her relatives, who induced or rather constrained her to an alliance with a nobler house. The marriage was, as might have been anticipated, a most unhappy one, and the original attachment seems never to have been replaced by any other, and ultimately produced the elopement which occasioned the action. Mr Erskine does not affect to palliate the crime of seduction; on the contrary, he dwells at length on the miserable consequences occasioned by this crime; but, after having adverted with exquisite delicacy to the sacrifice of affection and enjoyment which had been made in this case, he charges the plaintiff with being the original seducer of a woman, whose affections he knew to be irretrievably bestowed upon and pledged to another.

In 1807, Mr Erskine was exalted to the peerage by the title of lord Erskine of Restormal castle, in Cornwall, and accepted of the seals as lord high chancellor; but resigned them on the dissolution of the short lived administration of that period, and retired upon a pension of £4000 per annum. Prom that time to the period of his death, his lordship steadily devoted himself to his duties in parliament, and never ceased to support, in his high station, those measures and principles which he had advocated in his younger years. It is deeply to be regretted, that, by an unhappy second marriage and some eccentricities of conduct, very incompatible with his years and honours, this nobleman should have at once embittered the declining years of his own life, and tarnished that high and unsullied character which he had formerly borne in public estimation. His death was produced by an inflammation of the chest, with which he was seized while on the voyage betwixt London and Edinburgh. He was landed at Scarborough, and proceeded to Scotland by short stages, but died on the 17th of November, 1823, at Ammondell house. Mr Erskine's peculiar sphere seems to have been oratorical advocacy; his appearance as a senator never equalled that which he made at the bar. Nor is he entitled, as a political writer, to much distinction. His pamphlet, entitled &quot;A View of the Causes and Consequences of the War with France,&quot; which he published in support of Mr Fox's principles, indeed, ran through forty-eight editions; but owed its unprecedented sale more to the spirit of the times and the celebrity of its author's name, than to its own intrinsic merit. The preface to Mr Fox's collected speeches was also written by him, as well as a singular political romance, entitled &quot;Armaba,&quot; and some spirited pamphlets in support of the Greek cause.

By his first wife, lord Erskine had three sons and five daughters. The eldest of his sons, David Montague, now lord Erskine, was for some time member plenipotentiary to the United States, and afterwards president at the court of Wirtemberg.
&lt;section end=&quot;Erskine, Thomas&quot; /&gt;
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&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;[[author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|FALCONER, {{sc|William}}]], author of &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck, a poem]],&quot; was born in Edinburgh about the year 1730. His father was a barber and wig-maker, in a
&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133463</id>
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      <text bytes="3721" sha1="eiju4mpw96anj7dgpf4v41g89t13014" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|282|WILLIAM FALCONER.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Erskine, Thomas&quot; /&gt;by devoting them to screen villany from justice, or to the support of any cause which he did not conscientiously approve. His speech for the defendant at the trial of a case of adultery in the court of king's bench, may be considered as an exception to this remark. It must not be forgotten that it was delivered in behalf of a gentleman of high family who had been attached to a young lady, his equal in years and birth, but was prevented from marrying her by the sordid interference of her relatives, who induced or rather constrained her to an alliance with a nobler house. The marriage was, as might have been anticipated, a most unhappy one, and the original attachment seems never to have been replaced by any other, and ultimately produced the elopement which occasioned the action. Mr Erskine does not affect to palliate the crime of seduction; on the contrary, he dwells at length on the miserable consequences occasioned by this crime; but, after having adverted with exquisite delicacy to the sacrifice of affection and enjoyment which had been made in this case, he charges the plaintiff with being the original seducer of a woman, whose affections he knew to be irretrievably bestowed upon and pledged to another.

In 1807, Mr Erskine was exalted to the peerage by the title of lord Erskine of Restormal castle, in Cornwall, and accepted of the seals as lord high chancellor; but resigned them on the dissolution of the short lived administration of that period, and retired upon a pension of £4000 per annum. Prom that time to the period of his death, his lordship steadily devoted himself to his duties in parliament, and never ceased to support, in his high station, those measures and principles which he had advocated in his younger years. It is deeply to be regretted, that, by an unhappy second marriage and some eccentricities of conduct, very incompatible with his years and honours, this nobleman should have at once embittered the declining years of his own life, and tarnished that high and unsullied character which he had formerly borne in public estimation. His death was produced by an inflammation of the chest, with which he was seized while on the voyage betwixt London and Edinburgh. He was landed at Scarborough, and proceeded to Scotland by short stages, but died on the 17th of November, 1823, at Ammondell house. Mr Erskine's peculiar sphere seems to have been oratorical advocacy; his appearance as a senator never equalled that which he made at the bar. Nor is he entitled, as a political writer, to much distinction. His pamphlet, entitled &quot;A View of the Causes and Consequences of the War with France,&quot; which he published in support of Mr Fox's principles, indeed, ran through forty-eight editions; but owed its unprecedented sale more to the spirit of the times and the celebrity of its author's name, than to its own intrinsic merit. The preface to Mr Fox's collected speeches was also written by him, as well as a singular political romance, entitled &quot;Armaba,&quot; and some spirited pamphlets in support of the Greek cause.

By his first wife, lord Erskine had three sons and five daughters. The eldest of his sons, David Montague, now lord Erskine, was for some time member plenipotentiary to the United States, and afterwards president at the court of Wirtemberg.

{{c|{{larger|F}}}}

&lt;section end=&quot;Erskine, Thomas&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;[[author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|FALCONER, {{sc|William}}]], author of &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck, a poem]],&quot; was born in Edinburgh about the year 1730. His father was a barber and wig-maker, in a
&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A biographical dictionary of eminent Scotsmen, vol 3.djvu/255</title>
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      <text bytes="3705" sha1="gffk9aujtzhcvdigd5ub0hizgy0iqwg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh||WILLIAM FALCONER.|283}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;well-known street called the Netherbow, where he ultimately became insolvent. A brother and sister of the tuneful Falconer—the only individuals who stood in that relation to him—were born deaf and dumb; and the latter, on account of her infirmities, was a constant inmate of the royal infirmary of Edinburgh, some time after the beginning of the present century. The father of the poet was a cousin-german of the Rev. Mr Robertson, minister of the parish of Borthwick; so that this humble bard was a very near relation of the author of the History of Scotland, and also of lord Brougham and Vaux. Old Falconer being reduced to insolvency, was enabled by his friends to open a grocer's shop; but being deprived of his wife, who was a prudent and active woman, his affairs once more became deranged, and he terminated his life in extreme indigence. 

The education of young Falconer was of that humble kind which might have been expected from his father's circumstances. A teacher of the name of Webster gave him instructions in reading, writing, and arithmetic. He used to say that this was the whole amount of his school education. It appears that he possessed, even in early youth, an ardour of genius, and a zeal in the acquisition of knowledge, which in a great measure supplied his deficiences. In his poem of the Shipwreck, he evidently alludes to his own attainments, in the following lines:—

{{fine block|{{ppoem|{{fqm}}On him fair science dawned in happier hour,
Awakening into bloom young fancy's flower;
But soon adversity, with freezing blast,
The blossom withered and the dawn o'ercast;
Forlorn of heart, and, by severe decree,
Condemned, reluctant, to the faithless sea;
With long farewell, he left the laurel grove,
Where science and the tuneful sisters rove.&quot; }}}}

When very young, he was torn from his self-pursued studies, and entered as an apprentice on board a merchant vessel belonging to Leith. He afterwards became servant to Mr Campbell, the author of Lexiphanes, who was purser of the ship to which he belonged, and who, finding in him an aptitude for knowledge, kindly undertook to give him some instructions in person. He subsequently became second mate in the Britannia, a vessel in the Levant trade, which, on her passage from Alexandria to Venice, was shipwrecked off Cape Colonna, on the coast of Greece. Only three of the crew were saved, and Falconer was of the number. The event furnished him with the material of a poem, by which it is probable his name will be for ever remembered. 

The poet was at this time about eighteen years of age. In 1751, when two or three years older, he is found residing in his native city, where he published his first known work, a poem, &quot;Sacred to the Memory of his Royal Highness, Frederick, Prince of Wales.&quot; He is said to have followed up this effort by several minor pieces, which he transmitted to the Gentleman's Magazine. Mr Clarke, the editor of a respectable edition of his poems, points out &quot;The Chaplain's Petition to the Lieutenants in the Ward-room,&quot; the &quot;Description of a Ninety Gun Ship,&quot; and some lines &quot;On the Uncommon Scarcity of Poetry,&quot; as among these fugitive productions. Mr Clarke has likewise presented his readers with a whimsical little poem, descriptive of the abode and sentiments of a midshipman, which was one of the poet's early productions; and offers some reasons for supposing that he was the author of the popular song, &quot;Cease, rude Boreas.&quot; 

Little is known of Falconer during this period of his life, except that he must have been making considerable additions to his stock of knowledge and ideas. His poem, &quot;The Shipwreck,&quot; was published in 1762, being dedicated&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A biographical dictionary of eminent Scotsmen, vol 3.djvu/256</title>
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      <text bytes="3940" sha1="dvbt3u763udz45mrkvx5ir16rbs5mgz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|284|WILLIAM FALCONER.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;to Edward, duke of York, brother of George&amp;nbsp;III. This composition displays a degree of polish, and an array of classical allusions, which could only have been acquired by extensive reading. It was at once placed in the first rank of 
descriptive poetry, where it has ever since continued. &quot;The distant ocean,&quot; says an eminent critic, &quot;and its grand phenomena, have employed the pens of the most eminent poets, but they have generally produced an effect by indefinite outlines and imaginary incidents. In Falconer, we have the painting of a great artist, taken on the spot, with such minute fidelity, as well as picturesque effect, that we are chained to the scene with all the feelings of actual terror. In the use of imagery, Falconer displays original powers. His sunset, midnight, morning, &amp;c., are not such as have descended from poet to poet. He beheld these objects under circumstances in which it is the lot of few to be placed. His images, therefore, cannot be transferred or borrowed ; they have an appropriation which must not be disturbed, nor can we trace them to any source but that of genuine poetry.&quot; Another writer remarks, &quot;The Shipwreck-is didactic as well as descriptive, and may be recommended to a young sailor, not only to excite his enthusiasm, but improve his knowledge of the art. It is of inestimable value to this country, since it contains within itself the rudiments of navigation: if not sufficient to form a complete seaman, it may certainly be considered as the grammar of his professional science. I have heard many experienced officers declare, that the rules and maxims delivered in this poem, for the conduct of a ship in the most perilous emergency, form the best, indeed; the only opinions which a skilful mariner should adopt.&quot; Against such a poem it forms no proper objection, that much of the language, being technical, is only perfectly understood by a class. 

By his dedication, the poet gained the notice and patronage of the duke of York, who, it will be recollected, was himself a seaman. Almost immediately after the poem was published, his royal highness induced Falconer to leave the merchant service, and procured him the rank of a midshipman in Sir Edward Hawke's ship, the Royal George. In gratitude, Falconer wrote an &quot;Ode on the duke of York's second departure from England as rear-admiral,&quot; which was published, but displays a merit more commensurate with the unimportance of the subject than the genius of the author. It is said that Falconer composed this poem &quot;during an occasional absence from his messmates, when he retired into a small space formed between the cable tiers and the ship's side.&quot; 

In 1763, the war being brought to a close, Falconer's ship was paid off, long before he had completed that period of service which could have entitled him to promotion. He then exchanged the military for the civil department of the naval service, and became purser of the Glory frigate of 32 guns. Either in the interval between the two services, or before his appointment as a midshipman, he paid a visit to Scotland, and spent some time in the manse of Gladsmuir, with Dr Robertson, the historian, who, we are told, was proud to acknowledge the relationship that existed between him and this self-instructed and ingenious man. 

Soon after this period, Falconer married a Miss Hicks, daughter of the Surgeon of Sheerness Yard. She has been described as &quot;a woman of cultivated mind, elegant in her person, and sensible and agreeable in conversation.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Letter by Joseph Moser, ''European Magazine,'' 1803, p. 424.&lt;/ref&gt; It is said that the match was entered into against the will of her parents, who, looking only to the external circumstances of the poet, thought her thrown away upon a poor Scottish adventurer. Notwithstanding this painful circumstance, and, there is reason to fear, real poverty besides, the pair lived happily.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133446</id>
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      <text bytes="3940" sha1="l6n58i183xexv17587rqh30vhvplfvs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|284|WILLIAM FALCONER.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;to Edward, duke of York, brother of George&amp;nbsp;III. This composition displays a degree of polish, and an array of classical allusions, which could only have been acquired by extensive reading. It was at once placed in the first rank of 
descriptive poetry, where it has ever since continued. &quot;The distant ocean,&quot; says an eminent critic, &quot;and its grand phenomena, have employed the pens of the most eminent poets, but they have generally produced an effect by indefinite outlines and imaginary incidents. In Falconer, we have the painting of a great artist, taken on the spot, with such minute fidelity, as well as picturesque effect, that we are chained to the scene with all the feelings of actual terror. In the use of imagery, Falconer displays original powers. His sunset, midnight, morning, &amp;c., are not such as have descended from poet to poet. He beheld these objects under circumstances in which it is the lot of few to be placed. His images, therefore, cannot be transferred or borrowed ; they have an appropriation which must not be disturbed, nor can we trace them to any source but that of genuine poetry.&quot; Another writer remarks, &quot;The Shipwreck is didactic as well as descriptive, and may be recommended to a young sailor, not only to excite his enthusiasm, but improve his knowledge of the art. It is of inestimable value to this country, since it contains within itself the rudiments of navigation: if not sufficient to form a complete seaman, it may certainly be considered as the grammar of his professional science. I have heard many experienced officers declare, that the rules and maxims delivered in this poem, for the conduct of a ship in the most perilous emergency, form the best, indeed; the only opinions which a skilful mariner should adopt.&quot; Against such a poem it forms no proper objection, that much of the language, being technical, is only perfectly understood by a class. 

By his dedication, the poet gained the notice and patronage of the duke of York, who, it will be recollected, was himself a seaman. Almost immediately after the poem was published, his royal highness induced Falconer to leave the merchant service, and procured him the rank of a midshipman in Sir Edward Hawke's ship, the Royal George. In gratitude, Falconer wrote an &quot;Ode on the duke of York's second departure from England as rear-admiral,&quot; which was published, but displays a merit more commensurate with the unimportance of the subject than the genius of the author. It is said that Falconer composed this poem &quot;during an occasional absence from his messmates, when he retired into a small space formed between the cable tiers and the ship's side.&quot; 

In 1763, the war being brought to a close, Falconer's ship was paid off, long before he had completed that period of service which could have entitled him to promotion. He then exchanged the military for the civil department of the naval service, and became purser of the Glory frigate of 32 guns. Either in the interval between the two services, or before his appointment as a midshipman, he paid a visit to Scotland, and spent some time in the manse of Gladsmuir, with Dr Robertson, the historian, who, we are told, was proud to acknowledge the relationship that existed between him and this self-instructed and ingenious man. 

Soon after this period, Falconer married a Miss Hicks, daughter of the Surgeon of Sheerness Yard. She has been described as &quot;a woman of cultivated mind, elegant in her person, and sensible and agreeable in conversation.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Letter by Joseph Moser, ''European Magazine,'' 1803, p. 424.&lt;/ref&gt; It is said that the match was entered into against the will of her parents, who, looking only to the external circumstances of the poet, thought her thrown away upon a poor Scottish adventurer. Notwithstanding this painful circumstance, and, there is reason to fear, real poverty besides, the pair lived happily.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A biographical dictionary of eminent Scotsmen, vol 3.djvu/257</title>
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      <text bytes="3978" sha1="n8hhd3zfmopw3hng8rsj4875pldem6e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh||WILLIAM FALCONER.|285}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Falconer endeavoured to support himself by literature. He compiled a &quot;Universal Marine Dictionary,&quot; which, from its usefulness as a book of reference, soon became generally used in the navy. Like most other literary Scotsmen of that period, he was a zealous partisan of the Bute administration, and endeavoured to defend it against the attacks of its jealous and illiberal enemies. For this purpose, he published a satire, called &quot;the Demagogue,&quot; which was more particularly aimed at lord Chatham, Wilkes, and Churchill. We have not learned that it was attended with any particular effect. Falconer, at this time, lived in a manner at once economical, and highly appropriate to his literary character. &quot;When the Glory was laid in ordinary at Chatham, commissioner Hanway, brother to the benevolent Jonas Hanway, became delighted with the genius of its purser. The captain's cabin was ordered to be fitted up with a stove, and with every addition of comfort that could be procured; in order that Falconer might thus be enabled to enjoy his favourite propensity, without either molestation or expense.&quot;—''Clark's Life of Falconer''.

In 1769, the poet had removed to London, and resided for some time in the former buildings of Somerset house. From this place he dated the last edition of the Shipwreck published in his own life-time. That Falconer must have possessed the personal qualities of a man of the world, rather than those of an abstracted student or child of the muses, seems to be proved by Mr Murray, the bookseller, having proposed to take him into partnership. He is supposed to have been only prevented from acceding to this proposal by receiving an appointment to the pursership of the Aurora frigate, which was ordered to carry out to India, Messrs Vansittart, Scrofton, and Forde, as supervisors of the affairs of the company. He was also promised the office of private secretary to those gentlemen, a situation from which his friends conceived hopes that he might eventually obtain lasting advantages. It had been otherwise ordered. The Aurora sailed from England on the 30th of September, 1769, and, after touching at the Cape, was lost during the remainder of the passage, in a manner which left no trace by which the cause of the calamity could be discovered. It was conjectured that the vessel took fire at sea; but the more probable supposition is that she foundered in the Mosambique channel. The widow of Falconer (who eventually died at Bath,) resided for some years afterwards in his apartments at Somerset house, partly supported by Mr Miller, the bookseller, who, in consideration of the rapid sale of the Marine Dictionary, generously bestowed upon her sums not stipulated for in his contract with the author. Mr Moser, whom we have already quoted, mentions that he once met her walking in the garden, near her lodging, and, without knowing who she was, happened, in conversation, to express his admiration of &quot;the Shipwreck.&quot; She was instantly in tears. &quot;She presented me,&quot; says Mr M.&quot; with a copy of the Shipwreck, and seemed much affected by my commiseration of the misfortunes of a man, whose work appears in its catastrophe prophetic.&quot; They had never had any children.

&quot;In person,&quot; says Mr Clarke, &quot;Falconer was about five feet seven inches in height; of a thin light make, with a dark weather-beaten complexion, and rather what is termed hard-featured, being considerably marked with the small pox; his hair was of a brownish hue. In point of address, his manner was blunt, awkward, and forbidding; but he spoke with great fluency; and his simple yet impressive diction was couched in words which reminded his hearers of the terseness of Swift. Though he possessed a warm and friendly disposition, he was fond of controversy, and inclined to satire. His observation was keen and rapid; his criticisms on any inaccuracy of language or expression, were frequently severe; yet this severity was always intended to&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A biographical dictionary of eminent Scotsmen, vol 3.djvu/258</title>
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      <text bytes="4094" sha1="h2y3ukhjel99qlc99fr8d7xxw86ys01" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|286|DR. ADAM FERGUSON. |}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;create mirth, and not by any means to show his own superiority, or to give the smallest offence. In his natural temper, he was cheerful, and frequently used to amuse his messmates by composing acrostics on their favourites, in which he particularly excelled. As a professional man, he was a thorough seaman; and, like most of that profession, was kind, generous, and benevolent.&quot;

FERGUSON, {{sc|Dr Adam}}, was the son of the Rev. Adam Ferguson, parish minister of Logie Rait, in Perthshire, descended of the respectable family of Dunfallandy; his mother was from the county of Aberdeen. He was born in the year 1721, in the manse of his father's parish, and was the youngest of a numerous family. He received the rudiments of his education at the parish school; but his father, who had devoted much of his time to the tuition of his son, became so fully convinced of the superior abilities of the boy, that he determined to spare no expense, but to afford him every advantage in the completion of his education. He was accordingly sent to Perth and placed under the care of Mr Martin, Avho enjoyed great celebrity as a teacher. At this seminary Ferguson greatly distinguished himself, as well in the classical branches of education, as in the composition of essays; an exercise which his master was in the habit of prescribing to his pupils. His theses were not only praised at the time of their being delivered, but were long preserved and shown with pride by Mr Martin, as the production of a youthful scholar. In October, 1539, Ferguson was, at the age of fifteen, removed to the university of St Andrews, where he was particularly recommended to the notice of Mr Tullidelph, who had been lately promoted to the office of Principal of one of the colleges. At St Andrews, there is an annual exhibition for four bursaries, when the successful competitors, in writing and translating Latin, obtain gratuitous board at the college table, during four years. Ferguson stood first among the competitors of the under-graduate course for the year he entered the college. At that period the Greek language was seldom taught in the grammar schools in Scotland; and although young Ferguson had thus honourably distinguished himself by his knowledge of Latin, he seems to have been unacquainted with Greek. By his assiduity, hon-ever, he amply regained his lost time; for so ardently did he apply himself to the study of that language, that, before the close of the session, he was able to construe Homer; nor did his ardour cease with his attendance at college, for during the vacation, he tasked himself to prepare one hundred lines of the Iliad every day, and facility increasing as he advanced in knowledge, he was enabled to enlarge his task, so that by the commencement of the succeeding session, or term, he had gone through the whole poem. This laborious course of study enabled him to devote the succeeding years of his attendance at college to the attainment of a knowledge of mathematics, logic, metaphysics, and ethics.

From St Andrews, on the close of his elementary studies, Mr Ferguson removed to Edinburgh to mix with, and form a distinguished member of that galaxy of great men which illustrated the northern metropolis about the middle of the 1 8th century. Nor was it long before his acquaintance among those who were thus to shed a lustre over Scotland commenced, for soon after his arrival in Edinburgh, he became a member of a philosophical society, which comprehended Dr Robertson, Ur Blair, Mr John Home, the author of &quot;Douglas,&quot; and Mr Alexander Carlyle. A society composed of young men of abilities so eminent, it may easily be believed, was an institution peculiarly well adapted to promote intellectual improvement and the acquisition of knowledge. This society afterwards merged in the Speculative Society, which still exists, and has been the favourite resort of most of the young men of talent who have been educated in Edinburgh during the last sixty years.

&quot;In his private studies,&quot; (we are informed by one of his most intimate friends,)&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="4234" sha1="0gzdfr0ys145hrslczppbr9u1tjive8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|286|DR. ADAM FERGUSON. |}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;create mirth, and not by any means to show his own superiority, or to give the smallest offence. In his natural temper, he was cheerful, and frequently used to amuse his messmates by composing acrostics on their favourites, in which he particularly excelled. As a professional man, he was a thorough seaman; and, like most of that profession, was kind, generous, and benevolent.&quot;

&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Ferguson, Adam&quot; /&gt;FERGUSON, {{sc|Dr Adam}}, was the son of the Rev. Adam Ferguson, parish minister of Logie Rait, in Perthshire, descended of the respectable family of Dunfallandy; his mother was from the county of Aberdeen. He was born in the year 1721, in the manse of his father's parish, and was the youngest of a numerous family. He received the rudiments of his education at the parish school; but his father, who had devoted much of his time to the tuition of his son, became so fully convinced of the superior abilities of the boy, that he determined to spare no expense, but to afford him every advantage in the completion of his education. He was accordingly sent to Perth and placed under the care of Mr Martin, Avho enjoyed great celebrity as a teacher. At this seminary Ferguson greatly distinguished himself, as well in the classical branches of education, as in the composition of essays; an exercise which his master was in the habit of prescribing to his pupils. His theses were not only praised at the time of their being delivered, but were long preserved and shown with pride by Mr Martin, as the production of a youthful scholar. In October, 1539, Ferguson was, at the age of fifteen, removed to the university of St Andrews, where he was particularly recommended to the notice of Mr Tullidelph, who had been lately promoted to the office of Principal of one of the colleges. At St Andrews, there is an annual exhibition for four bursaries, when the successful competitors, in writing and translating Latin, obtain gratuitous board at the college table, during four years. Ferguson stood first among the competitors of the under-graduate course for the year he entered the college. At that period the Greek language was seldom taught in the grammar schools in Scotland; and although young Ferguson had thus honourably distinguished himself by his knowledge of Latin, he seems to have been unacquainted with Greek. By his assiduity, hon-ever, he amply regained his lost time; for so ardently did he apply himself to the study of that language, that, before the close of the session, he was able to construe Homer; nor did his ardour cease with his attendance at college, for during the vacation, he tasked himself to prepare one hundred lines of the Iliad every day, and facility increasing as he advanced in knowledge, he was enabled to enlarge his task, so that by the commencement of the succeeding session, or term, he had gone through the whole poem. This laborious course of study enabled him to devote the succeeding years of his attendance at college to the attainment of a knowledge of mathematics, logic, metaphysics, and ethics.

From St Andrews, on the close of his elementary studies, Mr Ferguson removed to Edinburgh to mix with, and form a distinguished member of that galaxy of great men which illustrated the northern metropolis about the middle of the 1 8th century. Nor was it long before his acquaintance among those who were thus to shed a lustre over Scotland commenced, for soon after his arrival in Edinburgh, he became a member of a philosophical society, which comprehended Dr Robertson, Ur Blair, Mr John Home, the author of &quot;Douglas,&quot; and Mr Alexander Carlyle. A society composed of young men of abilities so eminent, it may easily be believed, was an institution peculiarly well adapted to promote intellectual improvement and the acquisition of knowledge. This society afterwards merged in the Speculative Society, which still exists, and has been the favourite resort of most of the young men of talent who have been educated in Edinburgh during the last sixty years.

&quot;In his private studies,&quot; (we are informed by one of his most intimate friends,)
&lt;section end=&quot;Ferguson, Adam&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Biographical Dictionary of America, vol. 05.djvu/507</title>
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IRISH 


serving. 1883-87. At the close of his second term 
he retired to private life at Seguin, declining 
further official honors. He was twice married : 
first, in 1854, to Mrs. Matilda Wicks Faircloth, 
and secondly, in 1857. to Anna Penn. But one 
child, the daughter of his first wife, survived 
him, and she became the wife of Evan Shelby 
Carpenter, of Seguin. Governor Ireland died at 
San Antonio, Texas, after a brief illness, and 
was buried in the state cemetery at Austin, with 
military, civic and Masonic ceremonies. The 
date of his death is March 5, 1896. 

IRELAND, John, R.C. archbishop, was born 
in Ireland. Sept. 11, lb38. His parents emigrated 
to America in 1849, and settled in St. Paul, Minn. 
Here John was educated at the Cathedral school. 
In September, 1853, he entered the &quot; Petit Semi- 
naire &quot; of Meximieux, 
France, and complet- 
ed an eight years' 
course in four years. 
In 1857 he commenc- 
ed his theological 
course at the Grand 
Seminaire at Hyeres, 
and was graduated in 
1861. He returned to 
America and received 
ordination at the 
hands of Bishop 
Thomas L. Grace, in 
St. Paul, Minn., Dec. 
21, 1861. He was ap- 
pointed chaplain of 
the 5th ^linnesota volunteers, and went with 
the regiment to the front. After a service of 
two years, dui'ing which time he took an active 
part in several battles, notably Corinth and 
luka, he returned to St. Paul and was appointed 
rector of the Cathedral of St. Paul. He was also 
appointed secretary of the diocese. He held 
both these positions until his consecration as 
titular bishop of Maronea and coadjutor to the 
Rt. Rev. Thomas L. Grace, Dec. 1, 1875. He 
oi-ganized the first total abstinence society in 
Minnesota, in 1869, and founded a regular system 
of temperance societies in connection with the 
various parishes. In 1870 he was the accredited 
representative of Bishop Grace at the Vatican 
council in Rome. The death of the Rt. Rev. 
James Micliael O'Gorman, vicar apostolic of 
Nebraska, July 4, 1874, led to Father Ireland's 
appointment as his successor in February, 1875, 
Bishop Grace appealed to Rome for the cancella- 
tion of the appointment, and asked that Father 
Ireland be made liis coadjutor. He was conse- 
crated at the cathedral by Bishop Grace, as- 
sisted by Bishops Seidenbush and Heiss, Dec. 21, 
1875, the sermon being preached by the Rev. 


^/^^^^ CTV^^i^h^ 


Thomas O'Gorman, of Rochester, Minn., after- 
ward Bishop of Sioux Falls, Dak. He at once 
undertook the colonization of the northwest 
through the National Colonization association, of 
which he was a director. In 1876 he made large 
purchases of land in Minnesota, and settled 
thereon over 900 Catholic colonists, and in 1877 he 
bought 50,000 acres from the St. Paul &amp; Pacific 
railroad, which he sold to settlers. In this last 
purchase he was involved in some litigation, 
which was not settled until January, 1899, when 
his rights were maintained by the courts. He 
succeeded to the see of St. Paul on the resignation 
of Bishop Grace, July 31, 1884, and on May 15, 
1888, he was promoted archbisliop, his diocese 
having been raised to a metropolitan see, May 4, 
1888. He was president of the Minnesota State 
Historical society for several years. In the 
troubles with Spain, in April, 1898, Archbishop 
Ireland went to Washington and used his best 
endeavors to avert a declaration of war by the 
United States. He then expressed himself as 
follows: &quot;I have labored for peace, but if the 
will of the nation is for war, I pray that victory 
alight on the banners of my country.&quot; 

IRELAND, Joseph Norton, dramatic author, 
was born in New York city, April 24, 1817 ; son of 
Joseph and Sophia (Jones) Ireland ; grandson of 
John and Hannah (Norton) Ireland, and a de- 
scendant of Thomas Ireland, of Hempstead, L.I., 
who was one of the original proprietors by 
patent from Governor Kieft. November, 1644, and 
by purchase from the Indians. He received an 
excellent education and became a successful 
merchant in New York. He retired from busi- 
ness in 1853, and made Bridgeport, Conn., his 
home. He published : Fifty Years of a Play- 
Goer's Journal ; or Aniials of the New Yoi^k 
Stage, 179S-1S4S (2 parts, 1860) ; Records of the 
New York Stage from 1750 to isno ( 2 vols., 1866); 
Some account of the Ireland Family originally of 
Long Island, N.Y., 16U-1SS0 (1880) ; Mrs. Duff 
(1882); Actors and Actresses of Great Britain and 
the United States (monographs, 1886); Thomas 
Abthorpe Cooper; a Memoir of his Professional 
Life (1888). He died at Bridgeport, Dec. 29. 1898. 

IRISH, John Powell, journalist, was born in 
Iowa City. Iowa, Jan. 1, 1843 ; son of Frederick M. 
and Elizabeth A. (Robinson) Irish ; grandson of 
Jonathan Irish ; and a descendant of John Irish, 
soldier under Myles Standish, a settler of Dux- 
borough in Plymouth colony ; and of the Rev. 
John Robinson, pastor of the Pilgrims at Leyden, 
Holland. He was educated in the common 
schools of his native city ; was a grammar school 
master ; became editor and proprietor of the 
State Press there in 1864 ; was an unsuccessful 
candidate for representative in congress from 
Iowa, 1868 and 1872 ; a member of the Iowa legis-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Biographical Dictionary of America, vol. 09.djvu/188</title>
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ROSS 


Ross of Templeton. ^lass., reputed to have been 
a Scotchman, and a descendant of Sampson 
Mason. Jonathan Ross was born on the farm 
cleared by his parental grandfather, and worked 
on the farm till 1847. Ho attended the St. Johns- 
bury academy, and 
was graduated from 
Dartmouth college in 
1851. He was mar- 
ried, Nov. 22, 1852. to 
Eliza Ann, daughter 
of Isaiah and Caro- 
line (Bugbee) Carpen- 
ter of Waterfurd, Vt., 
who died, Jan. 15, 
,^ 18SG; and secondly, 
&gt; July 4, 1887, to Helen 
Augusta Daggett. 
^;,:i'^^'-'^'// ■; He was principal of 

J .// Ai^ , , Chelsea and Crafts- 

^a^Ut^ ^^^^ bury academies, Vt.. 

1851-56; was ad- 
mitted to the bar in January, 1856, and prac- 
tised in St. Johnsbury, 1856-70. He was state 
attorney for Caledonia county, 1862-63; a rep- 
resentative in the state legislature, 1865-67; state 
senator in 1870, and a member of the state board 
of education, 1866-70. He was judge of the 
supreme court of Vermont, 1870-90; chief jus- 
tice, 1890-99; and was appointed U.S. senator by 
Governor Edward C. Smith, Jan. 11, 1899, and 
served in the vacancy caused by the death of 
Justin S. Morrill until Oct. 18, 1900, when Wil- 
liam Paul Dillingham was elected to complete 
the term. He was made chairman of the state 
railroad commission of Vei-mont, Dec. 1, 1900. 
The honorary degree of LL.D. was conferred on 
him by Dartmouth in 1885. 

ROSS, Lawrence Sullivan, governor of Texas, 
was born in Bentonsport, Iowa, Sept. 27, 1838; 
son of Capt. Shapley Prince and Katharine (Falk- 
erson) Ross; grandson of Shapley and Mary 
(Prince) Ross; great-grandson of Lawrence and 
Susan (Oldham) Ross, and 
a descendant of Lawrence 
Ross, born in Scotland, who 
in his boyliood removed to 
Virginia with his father, 
attended school, and was 
wounded and captured from 
the schoolliouse by the In- 
dians with whom lie lived until twenty-three years 
old. He afterwards married Susan, daughter of 
Gen. &quot;William Oldham. Lawrence S. Ross re- 
moved with his parents to Texas in 1839, attended 
Baylor university, and was graduated from Wes- 
leyan university, Florence, Ala., in 18.59. He 
raised a company of 135 Indians and whites, and 
enlisted under Capt. Earl Van Dorn in the expedi- 


tion against the Comanche Indians in 1858, dis- 
tinguishing liimself at the battle of Wichita. He 
was commissioned major of state militia and 
commanded the Texas Frontier battalion in later 
fights with the Comanches. He married, May 28, 
1801, Lizzie, daughter of David R. and Sarah Ann 
(Holt) Tinsley of Waco, Tex. In 1861 he enlisted 
as a private in the Confederate army; was pro- 
moted major of the 6th Texas cavalry in Septem- 
ber, 1861, and colonel in May, 1862. He M'^as pro- 
moted brigadier-general in 1863 for his skill in 
covering the retreat of Gen. Earl Van Dorn from 
Corinth, Miss.; commanded a brigade, Wheeler's 
cavalry, Army of Tennessee, and later was in 
command of the Texas cavalry, Army of the 
W©gt. After the war he returned to Texas and 
engaged in farming. He was sheriff of McLen- 
nan county in 1875; a member of the state con- 
stitutional convention in 1875; state senator in 
1881-86, and governor of Texas, succeeding John 
Ireland, 1887-91. During his term of office the 
new state capitol was completed in May, 1888. 
He was president of the Agricultural and Me- 
chanical college of Texas, 1891-98. He died in 
College Station, Tex., Jan. 4, 1898. 

ROSS, Leonard Fulton, soldier, was born in 
Lewistown, III., July 18, 1823; son of Ossian M. 
and Mary (Winans) Ross; brother of Lewis 
Winans Ross (q.v.). He attended Illinois col- 
lege, 1841-42, was admitted to the bar in 1844, 
and Nov. 13, 1845, was married to Catlierine M., 
daughter of Reuben C. and Frances (Graves) 
Simms of Virginia. On July 18, 1846, he enlisted 
as a private in the 4th Illinois volunteers, for 
service in the war with Mexico, was commis- 
sioned first lieutenant, September, 1846, and com- 
manded his company at Vera Cruz and Cerro 
Gordo. He was probate justice of Fulton county, 
111., in 1847, clerk of Fulton county in 1S49, and 
in 1861 recruited a company for the civil war. 
He was commissioned colonel of the 17th Illinois 
volunteers, was engaged at Fredericktown, Mo., 
under General Fremont in October, 1861, and at 
Belmont, Mo., under General McClernand, Nov. 
7, 1861. He was attached to the 3d brigade, 1st 
division, Grant's army, and fought at Fort Henry, 
Feb. 6, 1862, and at Fort Donelson, Feb. 15, 18^2, 
where he succeeded Colonel Morrison in the com- 
mand of the brigade. He was placed in command 
of Fort Girardeau, Mo., and April 25, 1862, was 
promoted brigadier-general. He was stationed 
in southwestern Tennessee, later took part in the 
operations about Vicksburg and was mustered 
out in 1865. He was apjiointed collector of inter- 
nal revenue in 1867, in 1868 was unsucce.ssful Re- 
publican candidate for representative in the 41st 
congress, removed to Iowa City, Ia., and engaged 
in raising cattle, but in 1894 returned to Lewis- 
ton, 111. He was a delegate to the Democratic&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:EB1911 - Volume 26.djvu/121</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>1949745</id>
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      </contributor>
      <comment>Added author and title links</comment>
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      <text bytes="10164" sha1="5r0tkld2ax2dw1tcr83piveucg2oq62" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Library Guy&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{x-larger|SUNIUM—SUNNITES}}|{{x-larger|103}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Sunium&quot; /&gt;'''SUNIUM''' ({{Polytonic|Σούνιον}}; mod. Cape Colonna), a cape at the
southern extremity of Attica, with a temple of Poseidon upon
it, which serves as a landmark for all ships approaching Athens
from the east. The rocky promontory on which the temple
stands was fortified by a wall with towers, in 413 {{asc|B.C.}}, as a
protection against the Spartans in Decelea; but it was soon after
seized by a body of fugitive slaves from the Laurium mines.
In the 4th century it was still kept up as a fortress. The temple
was shown by an inscription found in 1898 to be dedicated to
Poseidon, not, as formerly supposed, to Athena, the remains
of whose temple are to be seen about a quarter of a mile away
to the north-east; they are of a peculiar plan, consisting of a hall
with a colonnade on two sides only. The extant temple on the
promontory was probably built in the time of Pericles. It took
the place of an earlier one, of similar proportions but built of
tufa or “poros” stone. There are still standing nine columns
of the south side and two of the north of the peristyle, and one
of the ''antae'' and an inner column of the ''pronaos''. They are
built of local white marble, which has suffered much from the
weather. In form they resemble those of the Parthenon and
Theseum, but they have only sixteen flutings. Recent excavations
have revealed porticoes, a gateway and other buildings,
and also the remains of several colossal early statues, the best
preserved of which is now in the museum at Athens. The site
of Cape Colonna is extolled by Byron, and is the scene of
[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]] “[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]].” {{EB1911 footer initials|Ernest Arthur Gardner|E. Gr}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Sunium&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Sunn&quot; /&gt;'''SUNN''', or {{sc|India Hemp}} (''Crotalaria juncea''), a plant which is
a native of India and Ceylon. It frequently receives other
names, ''e.g.'' false hemp, brown hemp, Bombay hemp, Jubbulpore
hemp, sana, &amp;c. The plant is an annual, requires a light soil,
and is easily cultivated. The ground is ploughed two or three
times, and from 80 to 100 ℔ of seed are sown broadcast. The
seedlings quickly appear above the surface, but it is about four
months before the plant begins to flower. Sometimes the seed
is sown in October for the winter crop, and sometimes in May
or June for the summer crop. When the seeds are sown in
May, the bright yellow flowers appear in August, when the plant
may be gathered. It is not unusual, however, to defer this
operation until the seed is ripe, especially if a fibre of great
strength is desired. The stems may be pulled up, as is the case
with flax, or they may be cut down. Different opinions exist
as to whether the stems should be steeped immediately after
they are pulled, or left to dry and then steeped: in the wet
districts they are taken direct to the water. Since the root ends
are much thicker and coarser than the tops, it is common to
place the bundles erect, and to immerse the root ends in about
a foot of water. Afterwards the bundles are totally immersed
in the ponds, and in two to four days the fibre should be ready
for stripping. There is the same danger of over-retting and
under-retting as in other fibres, but when the retting is complete, the
workmen enter the ponds, take up a handful of stems, and swish
them upon the surface of the water until the fibre becomes loose.
After the fibre has been peeled off it is hung over poles to dry.
When intended for cloth it is combed in order to remove any
foreign matter, but if it is intended to be used for rope or similar
purposes, the fibres are simply separated and the woody matter
combed out with the fingers. The fibre is of a light grey colour,
and has an average length of 3 to 4 ft. It is extensively used
for rope and cordage and also for paper-making in its native
country, but it has made little, if any, progress in this country.
According to Warden, the fibre was tried in Dundee in the
beginning of the 19th century. About 1820 the price of India
hemp bagging, as quoted in the ''Dundee Advertiser'', was 1½d.
per yard below hemp bagging, and ¾d. a yard below tow warp
bagging.
{{EB1911 fine print/s}}
It is stated in Sir G. Watt's ''Dictionary of the Economic Products''
''of India'' that a cord 8 in. in size of best Petersburg hemp broke
with 14 tons, 8 cwt. 1 qr., while a similar rope of sunn only gave way
with 15 tons, 7 cwt. 1 qr. Roxburgh's experiments with ropes made
from this and other fibres appear on p. 607 of the above work. The
ropes were tested in the fresh state, and also after having been immersed
in water for 110 days. His results, reproduced in the
following table, show the comparison.

&lt;!-- column 2 --&gt;
{|align=&quot;center&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; rules=&quot;cols&quot; border=&quot;1&quot; style=&quot;text-align: center&quot;
|rowspan=&quot;5&quot; style=&quot;width: 12em&quot;|Names of the Plants.
|colspan=&quot;6&quot;|{{nowrap|&amp;nbsp;Average Weight at which each sort of line broke.&amp;nbsp;}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;6&quot;|{{rule}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|When fresh.
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|{{nowrap|&amp;nbsp;After 110 days' maceration.&amp;nbsp;}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|{{rule}}
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|{{rule}}
|-
|&amp;nbsp;White.&amp;nbsp;||&amp;nbsp;Tanned.&amp;nbsp;||&amp;nbsp;Tarred.&amp;nbsp;||&amp;nbsp;White.&amp;nbsp;||&amp;nbsp;Tanned.&amp;nbsp;||&amp;nbsp;Tarred.&amp;nbsp;
|-
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|{{rule}}
|-
|style=&quot;padding-left: 2em; text-indent: -1.5em; text-align: left&quot;|English hemp, a piece of new tiller-rope
|
{|cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot;
|&amp;nbsp;||{{brace2|2|r}}||105&amp;nbsp;
|}
|—||—||colspan=&quot;3&quot;|&amp;nbsp;Rotten, as was also&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;the English log-line.
|-
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|{{rule}}
|-
|style=&quot;padding-left: 2em; text-indent: -1.5em; text-align: left&quot;|Hemp from the East India Company's farm near Calcutta
|
{|cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot;
|{{brace2|2|r}}||&amp;ensp;74
|}
|139&amp;ensp;||45||colspan=&quot;3&quot;|All rotten.
|-
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|{{rule}}
|-
|style=&quot;padding-left: 2em; text-indent: -1.5em; text-align: left&quot;|Sunn hemp of the Bengalese
|
{|cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot;
|{{brace2|2|r}}||&amp;ensp;68
|}
|69||60||Rotten||51||65
|-
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|{{rule}}
|-
|style=&quot;padding-left: 0.5em; text-align: left&quot;|Jute (Bunghi-pāt)
|align=&quot;right&quot;|68&amp;nbsp;||69||61||40||49||60
|}

It would appear that, after maceration, neither ordinary hemp nor
sunn hemp can compare with jute for strength.
{{EB1911 fine print/e}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Sunn&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Sunnites&quot; /&gt;'''SUNNITES''', literally, “those of the path,” ''sunna'', ''i.e.'' followers
of the Prophet's directions, the name of one of the two main
divisions of Islam, the other being the {{EB1911 article link|nosc=x|Shī‘ites|Shi'ites}} (''q.v.''). The
Sunnites, who accept the orthodox tradition (Sunna) as well
as the Koran as a source of theologico-juristic doctrines, predominate
in Arabia, the Turkish Empire, the north of Africa,
Turkestan, Afghanistanand the Mahommedan parts of India
and the east of Asia; the Shī‘ites have their main seat in Persia,
where their confession is the state religion, but are also scattered
over the whole sphere of Islam, especially in India and the regions
bordering on Persia, except among the nomad Tatars, who are
all nominally Sunnite. Even in Turkey there are many native
Shī‘ites, generally men of the upper classes, and often men in
high office (see generally {{EB1911 article link|Mahommedan Religion}}). Orthodox Islam preserves unchanged the form of doctrine
established in the 10th century by Abū ‘l-Ḥasan al-Ash‘arī
(see {{EB1911 article link|Ash‘arī|Ash'arī}}). The attacks of rationalism, aided by Greek
philosophy, were repelled and vanquished by the weapons of
scholastic dialectic borrowed from the enemy; on most points
of dispute discussion was forbidden altogether, and faith in
what is written in Koran and tradition was enjoined without
question as to how these things were true (''bilā kaifa''). Freer
allegorical views, however, were admitted on some specially
perplexing points, such as the doctrine of the eternity of the
Koran, the crude anthropomorphisms of the sacred text, &amp;c.;
and, since Mo‘tazilite (Mu‘tazilite) views had never taken deep
root among the masses, while the caliphs required the help of
the clergy, and from the time of Motawakkil ({{asc|A.D.}} 847) became
ever more closely bound to orthodox views, the freethinking
tendency was thoroughly put down, and to the present day
no rationalizing movement has failed to be crushed in the bud.
Philosophy still means no more than scholastic dialectic, and
is the humble servant of orthodoxy, no man venturing on devious
paths except in secret. In the years 1872-1878 the Afghan
Jamāl ud-Dīn, a professor in the Azhar mosque at Cairo,
attempted to read Avicenna with his scholars, and to exercise
them in things that went beyond theology, bringing, for example,
a globe into the mosque to explain the form of the earth. But
the other professors rose in arms, forbade him to enter the
mosque, and in 1879 procured his exile on the pretext that he
entertained democratic and revolutionary ideas. Thus the
later movements of thought in Islam never touch on the great
questions that exercised Mahommedanism in its first centuries
''e.g.'' the being and attributes of God, the freedom of the will,
sin, heaven and hell, &amp;c. Religious earnestness, ceasing to
touch the higher problems of speculative thought, has expressed
itself in later times exclusively in protest against the extravagances
of the dervishes, of the worship of saints, and so forth,
and has thus given rise to movements analogous to Puritanism.

That even in early times the masses were never shaken in
their attachment to the traditional faith, with all its crude and
{{EB1911 Shoulder Heading|Ulemā.}}
grotesque conceptions, is due to the zeal of the
ulemā (clergy). Mahommedanism has no priesthood
standing between God and the congregation, but Koran
and Sunna are full of minute rules for the details of private&lt;section end=&quot;Sunnites&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="10907" sha1="4rdh1xwhcld2mg43tgah0ya43q6vi3q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{x-larger|MEASUREMENT]}}|{{x-larger|{{uc|TOOL}}}}|{{x-larger|43}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;cutters and feeding simultaneously. Corner-locking, or cutting
parallel tongues and grooves in the edges of boxes, &amp;c., is a rather
more rapid operation than dovetailing, and is done with suitable
cutter blocks or disks of appropriate thickness and pitching apart.
The general joiner, as its name implies, will do a large variety of
operations, and is used in shops and on estates where a complete
plant of machines would be out of the question. It usually has a
circular saw and sometimes a band-saw also, together with planing
and moulding apparatus, a moulding spindle, boring spindle and
tenoning apparatus.

The lathes used in woodworking comprise the plain hand types
with a simple T-rest on which the turner rests the tools to deal with
the work revolving between centres, and the copying or Blanchard
lathes, in which a master form or copy is rotated and caused by the
contact and coercion of a roller to move the cutter rest in a corresponding
fashion, so that the work is cut away until it exactly
matches the shape of the copy.

Sand-papering machines, which finish the surface of wood to a
high degree, deal with both flat and curved faces. Flat boards,
panels, &amp;c., can be done by contact against revolving drums or
disks covered with glass-paper, being fed along over them by hand
or by rotating rollers. In one class of machine a revolving disk is
placed at the end of a series of jointed arms, by which the disk can
be moved about over the work resting on a table underneath.

{{center|XIII.—MEASUREMENT}}

An advance of the greatest importance made in mechanical
engineering is that of measurement. Since the beginning of the 19th
century steady movement has been going on in this direction until it
seems impossible that much greater refinement can now be looked for.
Probably the chief advances to be expected will lie in the general
extension in workshop practice of the knowledge already acquired,
rather than in the acquisition of higher degrees of refinement.
Methods of measurement adopted in woodworking have but little
application in high-class engineers' work. They are adopted, however,
to a considerable extent in the metal trades which are allied
to engineering, as sheet metal working, girder work, &amp;c. Nhen a
carpenter or joiner sets about constructing a door, window sash,
roof or box he takes a two-foot rule, a flat lead pencil, and marks off
the dimensions and lines by which he intends to work. If he has to
work very carefully, then instead of using a pencil he cuts a line
with the edge of a keen scriber or chisel-like tool, by which to saw,
plane or chisel. If outlines are curved, the compasses are brought
into requisition, and these cut a fine line or lines on the surface of
the wood. But in any case the eye alone judges of the coincidence
of the cutting with the lines marked. Whether the tool used be saw,
chisel, gouge or plane, the woodworker estimates by sight alone
whether or not the lines marked are worked by.
The broad difference between his method and that of the engineer's
machinist lies in this, that while the first tests his work by the eye,
the second judges of its accuracy or otherwise by the sense of touch.
It may seem that there cannot be very much difference in these two
methods, but there is. To the first, the sixty-fourth part of an inch
is a fine dimension, to the second one-thousandth of an inch is rather
coarse. Now the thickness of tissue paper is about one-thousandth
of an inch, and no one could possibly work so closely as that by the
eye alone. Engineers' steel rules usually have one inch which is
divided into one hundred parts. Tolerably keen sight is required
to distinguish those divisions, and few could work by them by ocular
measurement alone, that is, by placing them in direct juxtaposition
with the work. A thousandth part of an inch seems by comparison
a fine dimension. But it is very coarse when considered
in relation to modern methods of measurement. In what are called
“limit gauges ” the plugs and rings are made of slightly different
dimensions. If a plug is made a thousandth of an inch less than
its ring it will slip through it easily with very perceptible slop.
The common rule is therefore scarcely seen in modern machine
shop, while the common calipers fill but a secondary place, their
function having been invaded by the gauges. A minute dimension
cannot be tested by lines of division on a rule, neither can a dimension
which should be fixed be tested with high precision with a
movable caliper of ordinary type. Yet it must not be supposed
that the adoption of the system of gauging instead of the older
methods of rule measurement relieves men of responsibility. The
instruments of precision require delicate handling. Rough forcing
of gauges will not yield correct results. A clumsy Workman is as
much out of place in a modern machine shop as he would be in a
watch factory. Without correctness of measurement mechanical
constructions would be impossible, and the older device of mutual
fitting of parts is of lessening value in face of the growth of the interchangeable
system, of international standards, and of automatic
machine tools which are run with no intervention save that of feeding
stock.

The two broad divisions of measurement by sight and by contact
are represented in a vast number of instruments. To the first named
belong the numerous rules in wood and metal and with
English and metric divisions, and the scales which are used for
setting out dimensions on drawings smaller than those of the real
objects, but strictly proportional thereto. The second include all
the gauges. These are either fixed or movable, an important subdivision.
The first embrace two groups-one for daily workshop
service, the other for testing and correcting the wear of these, hence
termed “reference gauges.” They are either made to exact standard
sizes, or they embody “limits of tolerance,&quot; that is, allowances for
certain classes of fits, and for the minute degrees of inaccuracy
which are permissible in an interchangeable system of manufacture.
The movable group includes a movable portion, either corresponding
with one leg of a caliper or having an adjustable rod, with provision
for precise measurement in the form of a vernier or of a screw
thread divided micro metrically. These may be of general character
for testing internal or external diameters, or for special functions
as screw threads. Subtitles indicate some particular aspect or
design of the gauges, as “plug and ring,” “caliper,” “horseshoe,&quot;
“depth,&quot; “rod,&quot; “end measure,&quot; &amp;c. So severe are the requirements
demanded of instruments of measurement that the manufacture
of the finer kinds remains a speciality in the hands of a very
few firms. The cost and experience necessary are so great that
prices rule high for the best instruments. As these, however, are
not required for ordinary workshop use, two or three grades are
manufactured, the limits of inaccuracy being usually stated and a
guarantee given that these are not exceeded.

''Measurement by Sight. Rules and Scales''.—The rules are used
for marking off distances and dimensions in conjunction with other
instruments, as scribers, compasses, dividers, squares; and for testing
and checking dimensions when marked, and work in course of
reduction or erection, directly or from calipers. They are made in
boxwood and in steel, the latter being either rigid or fiexible, as
when required to go round curves. Rules are fitted in combination
with other instruments, as sliding calipers, squares, depth gauges,
&amp;c. The scales are of boxwood, of ivory, the value of which is discounted
by its shrinkage, and of paper. They are of fiat section
with bevelled edges, and of oval and of triangular sections, each
giving a thin edge to facilitate readings. They are fully divided,
or open divided; in the first case each division is alike subdivided,
in the second only the end ones are thus treated.

''The Gauges. Fixed Gauges''.—These now embrace several kinds,
the typical forms being represented by the cylindrical or plug and
ring gauges and by the caliper form or snap gauges. The principle
in each is that a definite dimension being embodied in the gauge,
the Workman has not to refer to the rule, either directly or through
the medium of a caliper. This distinction, though slight, is of
immense importance in modern manufacturing. Broadly it corresponds
with the difference between the older heterogeneous and the
present interchangeable systems.

''Plug and Ring Gauges''.—The principal ones and the originals of
all the rest, termed Whitworth gauges after the inventor, are the
plug and ring gauges (fig. 67, ''A'' and ''B''). The principle on which they depend is that if the two gauges are made to fit with perfect accuracy, without tightness on the one hand or slop on the other, then any work which is measured or turned   
and bored or ground by them will also fit with equal accuracy. Bored holes are tested by the plug gauge, and spindles are tested by the ring gauge, and such spindles and holes make a close fit if the work is done carefully. Of course, in practice, there is very much variation in the character of the work done, and the finest gauges are too fine for a large proportion of engineers' work. It is possible to make these
gauges within yuh; of an inch. But they are seldom required so
fine as that for shop use; 5156 is generally fine enough. For general shop work the gauges are made

[[File:EB1911 - Tool - Fig 67.png|center|200px]]
{{center|{{sc|Fig}}. 67.}}
''A'', ''B'', Plug and ring gauges.&lt;br /&gt;
''C'', Difference gauge.&lt;br /&gt;
''D'', Stepped reference gauge.

to within about 3-Dfw, of an inch. Standard gauges in which the plug and ring are of the same diameter will only fit by the application of a thin film of oil and by keeping the plug in slight movement within the ring. Without these precautions the two would “seize” so hard that they could not be separated without force and injury.

''Plug and Ring'' v. ''Horseshoe Gauges''.—The horseshoe, snap or
caliper gauges (fig. 68) are often used in preference to the plug and
ring types. They are preferred because the surfaces in contact
are narrow. These occur in various designs, with and without
handles, separately and in combination and in a much larger range
of dimensions than the plug and ring. Ring gauges are not quite
such delicate instruments as the fixed caliper gauges. But since
they measure diameter only, and turned work is not always quite
circular, the caliper gauges are not so convenient for measurement
as the round gauges, which fit in the same manner as the parts have
to fit to one another.

''Fixed Gauges. Limit Gauges''.—Some fits have to be what
is termed in the shops “driving fits, ” that is, so tight that they&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="6458" sha1="ogghcexpbqd2k9xvuu5brj8rmstq9b3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{x-larger|44}}|{{x-larger|{{uc|TOOL}}}}|{{x-larger|[MEASUREMENT}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;have to be effected by driving with a hammer or a press, while others have to be &quot; working fits, &quot; suitable, say, for the revolution of a loose pulley on its shaft or of an axle in its bearings. The &quot;limit&quot; or &quot;difference gauges&quot; (figs. 67 and 68) are designed for producing these working fits; that is, the plug and ring gauges differ in dimensions so that the work bored will drive tightly, or slide freely over

[[File:EB1911 - Tool - Fig 68.png|center|400px]]
{{center|{{sc|Fig}}. 68.}}

''A'', Separate caliper or snap gauges.&lt;br /&gt;
''B'', Combined internal and external gauges.&lt;br /&gt;
''C'', Difference gauge.&lt;br /&gt;  
''D'', Newall adjustable limit gauge.  ''a'', ''b'', Plugs.

the work turned. These are variously sub-classified. The system which is generally accepted is embodied in the gauges by the Newall Engineering Co. These embrace ''force fits'', which require the application of a screw or hydraulic press; ''driving fits'', that require less power, as that of a hammer; ''push fits'', in which a spindle can be thrust into its hole by hand; and ''running fits'', such as that of shafts in bearings. Fixed gauges are made for each of these, but as this involves a heavy outlay the Newall firm have adjustable limit gau es (fig. 68, ''D'') for external dimensions, the standard plug being used for holes. The setting is done by screwed plugs or anvils adjusted by reference bars. In all these gauges the &quot;go on&quot; and &quot;not go on&quot; ends respectively are stamped on the gauge, or the equivalents of + and -.

''Fixed Reference Gauges''. ''Reference Disks and End Measuring Rods''.—Shop working gauges become in time so damaged by service that they fail to measure so accurately as when new. To correct these errors reference gauges are provided, by which the inaccuracy of the worn ones is brought to the test. These are never used in the shops for actual measurement of work, but are only kept for checking the truth of the working gauges. They include disk, stepped and end measurement gauges. The disk and the stepped are used for testing the ring gauges, the stepped kind comprising essentially a collection of disks in one piece (fig. 67, ''D''). The end measure pieces test the external gauges. The end measure standard lengths made by the Pratt &amp; Whitney Co. are so accurate that any sizes taken at random in any numbers from i in. to 4 in., varying by sixteenths of an inch, will, when placed end to end, make up an exact length; this is a difficult test, since slight variations in the lengths of the components would add up materially when multiplied by the number of pieces. The ends are ground off with diamond dust or emery in a special machine under water, and are so true that one piece will support another by cohesive force, and this though the surfaces are less than i in. square. 

''Movable Gauges''.—This extensive group may be regarded as compounded of the common caliper and the Whitworth measuring machine. They are required when precise dimensions have to be ascertained in whole numbers and minute fractional parts. They combine the sense of touch by contact, as in the calipers, with the exact dimensions obtained by inspection of graduate cf) scales, either the vernier or the micrometer screw. If gauges must not vary by more than &quot;gh-5 of an inch, which is the limit imposed by modern shop ideals, then instruments must be capable of measuring to finer dimensions than this. Hence, while the coarser classes of micrometers read directly to -fi, -5 part of an inch, the finest measure up to ~{0;5-0-.5 of an inch, about 200 times as fine as the diameter of a human hair. They range in price correspondingly from about a sovereign to £100.

''The Calipers''.-Common calipers (fig. 69) are adjusted over or within work, and the dimensions are taken therefrom by a rule or a gauge. They usually have no provision for minute adjustment beyond the gentle tapping of one of the legs when setting. In some forms screw adjustment is provided, and in a few instances a vernier attachment on the side of the pivot opposite to the legs. Vernier Calipers.-The vernier fitting, so named after its inventor, Pierre Vernier, in 163I, is fitted to numerous calipers and caliper rules. It is applied to calipers for engineers' use to read to11, '~m; of an inch without requiring a magnifier. The beam of the caliper is divided into inches and tenths of the inch, and each tenth into fourths and the vernier into twenty-five parts, or the beam is divided into fiftieths of an inch (fig. 70) and the vernier has 20 divisions to I9 on the rule. The caliper jaws are adapted to take both external and internal dimensions. These &quot;beam calipers '7 are also made for metric divisions. Minor variations in design by different manufacturers are numerous.

[[File:EB1911 - Tool - Fig 69.png|center|400px]]
{{center|{{sc|Fig}}. 69.—Calipers.}}

''A'', Ordinary external type, adjusted by tapping the legs.&lt;br /&gt;
''B'', Type adjusted by screw in auxiliary leg.&lt;br /&gt;
''C'', Screw calipers, opened by contraction of curved spring and closed by nut.&lt;br /&gt;
''D'', Self-registering caliper, with pointer moving over quadrant.&lt;br /&gt; 
''E'', Common internal type.&lt;br /&gt;
''F'', Screw type with spring.
''G'', Combined internal and external for measuring chambered holes.&lt;br /&gt; 
''H'', Compass caliper for finding centres.&lt;br /&gt;
''J'', Keyhole caliper for measuring from hole to outside of boss. 

[[File:EB1911 - Tool - Fig 70.png|center|400px]]
{{center|{{sc|Fig}}. 70.—Vernier Caliper.}}

''A'', Beam; ''B'', vernier; ''C'', fixed jaw; ''D'', movable jaw; ''E'', clamping head; ''F'', abutment head, with adjusting screw ''a'', for Fine adjustment of ''D''.


[[File:EB1911 - Tool - Fig 71.png|center|400px]]
{{center|{{sc|Fig}}. 71.—Measuring Machine. (The Newall Engineering Co.)}} 
''A'', Hollow base or bed, mounted on three points.&lt;br /&gt;
''B'', Measuring or fast headstock.&lt;br /&gt;
''C'', Movable head, or tail stock.&lt;br /&gt;
''D'', Spirit-level to indicate alterations in length of piece being measured due to changes in temperature, termed the indicator or comparator.&lt;br /&gt;
''E'', Measuring screw.&lt;br /&gt;
''F'', Nut for rapid adjustment of ditto.&lt;br /&gt;
''G'', Knob of speed screw for slow movement of ditto.&lt;br /&gt; ''H'', Dividing and measuring wheel.&lt;br /&gt;
''J'', Vernier or reading bar.&lt;br /&gt;
''a'', ''a'', Points between which contact is made.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="6863" sha1="mprg8y75ffqrzdoy46f16kdg6bw0e3u" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{x-larger|344}}|{{x-larger|TRYPANOSOMES}}|{{em|2.4}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt; 
rise to little fusiform parasites; with growth, these gradually assume
the adult appearance.

Comprehensive researches (1905, seq.) have made it evident
that Trypanosomes have a much more varied and complex development
and life-history than was previously supposed.
This has now been found to be the case in widely-differing
parasites, occurring in widely-different hosts.{{EB1911 Shoulder Heading|Development&lt;br&gt;and Life-cycle.}}
The following examples have been investigated:
''Trypanosoma lewisi'' (also, but much less completely, ''T. brucei''),&lt;ref&gt;''T. brucei'' has also been studied in a Tsetse-fly (''G. fusca'') by
Stuhlmann (54''a'').&lt;/ref&gt;
among mammalian forms, described by Prowazek (47); T. ziemanni
and ''Tryparwmorpha noctuae'', among avian parasites, described by
Schaudinn (50); ''Trypanosoma inopinatum'', among batrachian
forms, described by A. Billet (1''a'' and 2), ''T. barbatulae'' and ''Trypanoplasma''
''varium'', described by Léger (32 and 33), and ''T. borreli'', by
G. Keysselitz (16), from fishes; also several other piscine Trypanosomes
have their development phases in leeches worked on by
Brumpt (5''a''). In addition, a Trypanosome whose vertebrate host
is yet unknown (''T. grayi'') has been studied in detail by Minchin
(41''a'').

[[File:EB1911 - Trypanosomes - Fig 6.png|center|400px]]
{{smaller|(A–E, after Lav. and Mesnil; F, after Wasiel and Senn.)}}&lt;br&gt;
{{center|{{sc|Fig}}. 6.—Unequal Division and “Budding” process in ''T. lewisi.''}}
''m'', Parent-individual; ''d'', Daughter-individual; ''d''′, Daughter-individual dividing.

It is impracticable here to consider fully all the various developmental
phases and modifications of the life-cycle described as occurring
in the above parasites. In view, however, of the great interest
excited by Schaudinn’s work on avian parasites, as well as on
account of the far-reaching importance of his conclusions to the
study of the Haematozoa, a brie summary of his celebrated research
is necessary.

According to Schaudinn’s account, he was dealing with two
separate Trypanosome parasites of the Little Owl (''Athene noctua''),
viz. ''Trypanomorpha'' (''Trypanosoma'') ''noctuae'' and ''Trypanosoma''
(''Spirochaete'') ''ziemanni''. The latter organism, in certain phases,
very closely resembles a ''Spirochaete''. In the blood of the owl
resting, intracellular phases of both parasites alternate with active
trypaniform ones; and, when in the former condition, Schaudinn
considers that the parasites are identical with what have been
formerly regarded as distinct Haemosporidia, Halteridium and a
Leucocytozoon respectively. In other words, he considers that
these two Haemosporidian forms are really only phases in the
life-history of particular Trypanosomes To this life-cycle belongs
the formation of sexual individuals and their conjugation on arrival
in the gnat (Culex); the process is described as agreeing in the main,
in both cases, with what has already been made known by Mac-Callum
for another species of Halteridium. The male gametes,
it may be noted, are said to possess the essential characters of a
Trypanosome. The motile copula or ookinete formed in the gnat gives
&lt;!-- col. 2 --&gt;
rise to one of three types of Trypanosome individual: indifferent,
male or female. The development of an indifferent ookinete into
an indifferent Trypanosome is shown in fig. 7, from which it will be
seen that the cytological details are very complex, The indifferent
parasites exhibit an alternation of resting, attached phases with
active periods, during which they multiply actively and become
very abundant in the insect. The male forms, which are very
small and the homologies of the micro gametes developed in the
blood, appear to die off soon. The female Trypanosomes, on the
other hand, grow to a large size, laying up a store of reserve nutriment.
They are very sluggish and do not divide. They are the
most resistant to unfavourable conditions of environment, and are
able, by a process of parthenogenesis, to give rise to ordinary,
indifferent forms again, which can repopulate the gnat.

So far as regards the remarkable Connexion between Trypanosomes
and Haemos oridia indicated by Schaudinn, this has met with a
great deal of) criticism on the art of Novy and McNeal among
others, and it must be admitted that up to 1909 no definite corroboration
can be said to have been brought forward. Again, the spirochaetiform
''Trypanosoma'' (''T. ziemanni'') described may have
been really a true Spirochaete, i.e. a Bacterium. In short, it is
quite possible Schaudinn did not sufficiently distinguish between
the life-cycles of four distinct parasites of the Little Owl: a Trypanosome,
a ''Spirochaete'', a ''Halteridium'' and a ''Leucocytozoon''; though,
on the other hand, this is by no means proved. However this
may be, the research of subsequent workers-e.g. Brumpt (5a),
Léger (32, 33), Keysselitz (16), Prowazek (47), Minchin (41b) and
others-has undoubtedly shown that much of Schaudinn’s scheme
of the life-history of a Trypanosome is well-founded. It is certain,
for instance, that the three types of form which he discovered,
viz. indifferent, male or female, can be recognized in many cases,
often in the vertebrate, but always more sharply differentiated in
the invertebrate. Moreover, it is very probable that conjugation
occurs soon after the arrival of the parasites in their specific invertebrate
host; and this act may perhaps give rise to an aflagellar
copula, which is gregariniform and comparable to an ookinete.
Different investigators, it may be noted, have described various


[[File:EB1911 - Trypanosomes - Fig 7.png|center|400px]]
{{smaller|(After Schaudinn.)}}&lt;br&gt;
{{center|{{sc|Fig}}. 7.-Development of an Ookinete (of ''Halteridium'') into an
indifferent Trypanosome (''Trypanomorpha'').}}&lt;br&gt;
A–D shows the formation of the two nuclear elements (trophonucleus
and kinetonucleus) from the definitive nucleus (synkaryon)
of the ookinete.

E–H shows the formation of the myonemes and the flagella border
(Hagellum) of the undulating membrane, by means of a greatly
elongated nuclear-spindle.
{|{{Ts|ma}}
|''t.chr'', ||Trophonuclear chromosome&amp;emsp;||''t''. ||Trophonuclear centrosome.
|-
|''k.chr'', ||Kinetonuclear do.,||''m''||. Myonemes.
|-
|''c'',||Centrosomic granule. ||rowspan=2 {{Ts|vtp}}| ''f.b'',||rowspan=2 {{Ts|vtp}}| Flagellar border of undulating-&lt;br&gt;membrane (3rd axial spindle).
|-
|''a.s'', ||First axial spindle.
|-
|''a.s''&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;, ''a.s''&lt;sup&gt;3&lt;/sup&gt;, ||Second and third do. ||rowspan=3 {{Ts|vtp}}| ''c''.&lt;sup&gt;3&lt;/sup&gt;||rowspan=3 {{Ts|vtp}}| Its proximal centrosorne&lt;br&gt;&amp;emsp;(its distal one vanishing&lt;br&gt;&amp;emsp;as such).
|-
|''t'', ||Trophonucleus.
|-
|''k'', ||Kinetonucleus. 
|-
|''k.c'',||Kinetonuclear centrosome.
|}&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{smallrefs|90%}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule|5em}}{{rule|5em}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;{{di|A}}'''R'ISTAR'CHUS''' (Gk. {{polytonic|Ἀρίσταρχος}}, ''Aristarchos'') of {{sc|Samos}}. A celebrated ancient astronomer of the Alexandrian School, who made his observations about {{sm|B.C.}} 280-264. All his writings have perished, excepting a short essay on the sizes and distances of the sun and the moon. In this he shows the method of estimating the relative distances of the sun and moon from the earth, from the angle formed by the two bodies at the observer's eye when the moon's phase reaches exactly the first or third quarter; i.e., when we see a half moon.
[[Image:NIE 1905 - Ar'istar'chus - Solar Distance.jpg|100px|left]]
Remembering that the moon's light is simply reflected solar light, it is easy to see from the annexed figure that the three bodies must then form a right-angled triangle, with the moon at the right angle. The angle MES being then observed, we can readily calculate the ratio EM to ES. This is quite correct in theory; but the impossibility of determining when the moon is exactly half illuminated renders the method inaccurate in practice. Besides, in the days of Aristarchus there were no instruments for measuring angles with anything like accuracy. Aristarchus estimated the angle at E at 83° and determined EM to be one-twentieth of ES, the truth being that the angle at E differs only by a fraction of a minute from a right angle, and that EM. the distance of the moon from the earth, is about 1·400 of ES, the distance of the sun. According to some accounts, Aristarchus held, with the Pythagorean School, that the earth moves around the sun. Vitruvius speaks of Aristarchus as the inventor of a kind of concave sun-dial. His essay was first published in Latin (Venice, 1498), then in Greek (Oxford, 1688). and it has since been republished.
&lt;section end=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;'''ARISTARCHUS'''  {{sc|of Samothrace}} ({{sm|B.C.}} 216–144). A Greek scholar. He was the pupil of Aristophanes of Byzantium, became tutor to the son of Ptolemy Philometor, and succeeded his master as head of the Alexandrian library. He died in Cyprus at the age of 72. Aristarchus represents the highest attainments of philological criticism in antiquity, and his influence dominated all later workers. He gave his attention chiefly to exegesis of the poets, particularly of the Homeric poems; his recension is the basis of our common text of Homer to-day. He wrote an enormous number of exegetical works—according to Suidas over 800—and many special treatises besides. Fragments of his comments are preserved, e.g., in the Venetian scholia to the [[Iliad]]. He founded a school of ''Aristarcheans'' at Alexandria, which continued to work on classical texts until after the beginning of the Empire. For an account of Aristarchus's Homeric studies, consult Lehrs, ''De Aristrirchi Studiis Homericis'' (Königsberg, 1882).
&lt;section end=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s3&quot; /&gt;'''ARISTE''', a'rest'. A male character in [[author:Molière|Molière's]] ''[[The Learned Women|Les femmes savantes]]'', the common-sense brother of Chrysale. He befriends the lovers, and, through his pardonable falsehood concerning Chrysale's financial loss, exposes the knavery of Trissotin.
&lt;section end=&quot;s3&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s4&quot; /&gt;'''ARIS'TEAS''' (Gk. {{polytonic|Άριστέας}}). An officer at the court of Ptolemy Philadelphus. He is said to have been sent by the latter to Jerusalem ({{sm|B.C.}} 273), where he obtained from the high-priest Eleazar a genuine copy of the Pentateuch and a body of seventy-two elders who could translate it into Greek. See Hody, ''De Bibliorum Textu Originali'' (Oxford, 1705); Dale, ''Dissertatio super Aristea'' (Amsterdam, 1705) . See {{NIE article link|Bible}}.
&lt;section end=&quot;s4&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s5&quot; /&gt;'''ARISTEAS,''' A magician of antiquity who rose after his death, and whose soul left and reentered his body according to its pleasure. His earliest appearance is as the teacher of [[author:Homer|Homer]]. We also hear of him as having been born, at a period later than Homer, at Proconnesus, an island in the Propontis. He is said to have traveled through the countries north and east of the Euxine, and to have visited the Arimaspi, the Cimmierii, the Hyperborei, and other mythical nations, and after his return and subsequent disappearance to have written an epic poem in three books, called ''Arimaspia'', a composition belonging probably to the Sixth Century {{sm|B.C.}}. Aristeas is fabled to have entered a fuller's shop at Proconnesus and there died. Later a traveler appeared who said that he had met him on the road between Cyzicus and Artace. When the fuller's shop was entered no body was found. It was seven years after&lt;section end=&quot;s5&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;PUBLISHED BY MR. MURRAY. 17 


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{{italic block/s}}
In the literature of all countries there will be found a certain number of works treating especially of love. Everywhere the subject is dealt with differently, and from various points of view. In the present publication it is proposed to give a complete translation of what is considered the standard work on love in Sanscrit literature, and which is called the ''&quot;Vatsyayana Kama Sutra,&quot;'' or ''Aphorisms on Love,'' by ''Vatsyayana''.

While the Introduction will deal with the evidence concerning the date of the writing, and the commentaries written upon it, the chapters following the Introduction will give a translation of the work itself. It is, however, advisable to furnish here a brief analysis of works of the same nature, prepared by authors who lived and wrote years after Vatsya had passed away, but who still considered him as the great authority, and always quoted him as the chief guide to Hindoo erotic literature.

Besides the treatise of ''Vatsyayana'' the following works on the same subject are procurable in India:—

# ''The Ratirahasya'', or ''secrets of love''.
# ''The Panchasakya'', or ''the five arrows''.
# ''The Smara Pradipa'', or ''the light of love''.
# ''The Ratimanjari'', or ''the garland of love''.
# ''The Rasmanjari'', or ''the sprout of love''.
# ''The Anunga Runga'', or ''the stage of love'' also called ''Kamaledhiplava'', or ''a boat in the ocean of love''.

The author of the ''&quot;Secrets of Love&quot;''(No. 1) was a poet named ''Kukkoka''. He composed his work to please one ''Venudutta'', who was perhaps a king. When writing his own name at the end of each chapter he calls himself ''&quot;Siddha patiya pandita,&quot;'' i.e., an ingenious man among learned men. The work was translated into Hindi years ago, and in this the author's name was written as ''Koka''. And as the same name crept into all the translations into other languages in India, the book became generally known, and the subject was popularly called ''Koka Shastra'', or doctrines of ''Koka'', which is identical with the ''Kama Shastra'', or ''doctrines of love'', and the words ''Koka Shastra'' and ''Kama Shastra'' are used indiscriminately.

The work contains nearly eight hundred verses, and is divided into ten chapters, which are called ''Pachivedas''. Some&lt;noinclude&gt;{{italic block/e}}
{{c|xv}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{italic block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of the things treated of in this work are not to be found in the ''Vatsyayana'', such as the four classes of women, viz., the ''Padmini, Chitrini, Shankini'', and ''Hastini'', as also the enumeration of the days and hours on which the women of the different classes become subject to love. The author adds that he wrote these things from the opinions of ''Gonikaputra'' and ''Nandikeshwara'', both of whom are mentioned by ''Vatsyayana'', but their works are not now extant. It is difficult to give any approximate idea as to the year in which the work was composed. It is only to be presumed that it was written after that of ''Vatsyayana'', and previous to the other works on this subject that are still extant. ''Vatsyayana'' gives the names of ten authors on the subject, all of whose works he had consulted, but none of which are extant, and does not mention this one. This would tend to show that ''Kukkoka'' wrote after ''Vatsya'', otherwise ''Vatsya'' would assuredly have mentioned him as an author in this branch of literature along with the others.

The author of the ''&quot;Five Arrows&quot;'' (No. 2 in the list) was one ''Jyotirisha''. He is called the chief ornament of poets, the treasure of the sixty-four arts, and the best teacher of the rules of music. He says that he composed the work after reflecting on the aphorisms of love as revealed by the gods, and studying the opinions of ''Gonikaputra, Muladeva, Babbravya, Ramtideva, Nundikeshwara'' and ''Kshemandra''. It is impossible to say whether he had perused all the works of these authors, or had only heard about them; anyhow, none of them appear to be in existence now. This work contains nearly six hundred verses, and is divided into five chapters, called ''Sayakas'' or ''Arrows''.

The author of the ''&quot;Light of Love&quot;'' (No. 3) was the poet ''Gunakara'', the son of ''Vechapati''. The work contains four hundred verses, and gives only a short account of the doctrines of love, dealing more with other matters.

''&quot;The Garland of Love&quot;'' (No. 4) is the work of the famous poet ''Jayadeva'', who said about himself that he is a writer on all subjects. This treatise is, however, very short, containing only one hundred and twenty-five verses.

The author of the ''&quot;Sprout of Love&quot;'' (No. 5) was a poet called ''Bhanudatta''. It appears from the last verse of the manuscript that he was a resident of the province of ''Tirhoot'', and son of a ''Brahman'' named ''Ganeshwar'', who was also a poet. The work, written in Sanscrit, gives the descriptions&lt;noinclude&gt;{{italic block/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{italic block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of different classes of men and women, their classes being made out from their age, description, conduct, etc. It contains three chapters, and its date is not known, and cannot be ascertained. 

''&quot;The Stage of Love&quot;'' (No, 6) was composed by the poet ''Kullianmull'', for the amusement of ''Ladkhan'', the son of ''Ahmed Lodi'', the same ''Ladkhan'' being in some places spoken of as ''Ladana Mull'', and in others as ''Ladanaballa''. He is supposed to have been a relation or connection of the house of ''Lodi'', which reigned in Hindostan from ''{{smaller|A.D.}}'' 1450–1526. The work would, therefore, have been written in the fifteenth or sixteenth century. It contains ten chapters, and has been translated into English but only six copies were printed for private circulation. This is supposed to be the latest of the Sanscrit works on the subject, and the ideas in it were evidently taken from previous writings of the same nature.

The contents of these works are in themselves a literary curiosity. There are to be found both in Sanscrit poetry and in the Sanscrit drama a certain amount of poetical sentiment end romance, which have, in every country and in every language, thrown an immortal halo round the subject. But here it is treated in a plain, simple, matter of fact sort of way. Men and women are divided into classes and divisions in the same way that Buffon and other writers on natural history have classified and divided the animal world. As Venus was represented by the Greeks to stand forth as the type of the beauty of woman, so the Hindoos describe the ''Padmini'' or Lotus-woman as the type of most perfect feminine excellence, as fellows: 

She in whom the following signs and symptoms appear is called a ''Padmini''. Her face is pleasing as the full moon; her body, well clothed with flesh, is soft as the ''Shiras'' or mustard flower, her skin is fine, tender, and fair as the yellow lotus, never dark coloured. Her eyes are bright and beautiful as the orbs of the fawn, well cut, and with reddish corners. Her bosom is hard, full and high; she has a good neck; her nose is straight and lovely, and three folds or wrinkles cross her middle—about the umbilical region. Her yoni resembles the opening lotus bud, and her love seed (''Kama salila'') is perfumed like the lily that has newly burst. She walks with swan-like gait, and her voice is low and musical as the note of the ''Kokila'' bird, she delights in white raiments, in fine jewels, and in rich dresses. She eats little, sleeps lightly, and&lt;noinclude&gt;{{italic block/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{italic block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;being as respectful and religious as she is clever and courteous, she is ever anxious to worship the gods, and to enjoy the conversation of ''Brahmans''. Such, then, is the ''Padmini'' or ''Lotus-woman''.

Detailed descriptions then follow of the ''Chitrini'' or ''Art-woman:'' the ''Shankhini'' or ''Conch-woman,'' and the ''Hastini'' or ''Elephant-woman,'' their days of enjoyment, their various seats of passion, the manner in which they should be manipulated and treated in sexual intercourse, along with the characteristics of the men and women of the various countries in Hindostan. The details are so numerous, and the subjects so seriously dealt with, and at such length, that neither time nor space will permit of their being given here.

One work in the English language is somewhat similar to these works of the Hindoos. It is called ''&quot;[[Kalogynomia; or the Laws of Female Beauty]],&quot;'' being the elementary principles of that science, by ''[[w:John Roberton (1776)|T. Bell, M.D.]],'' with twenty-four plates, and printed in London in 1821. It treats of Beauty, of Love, of Sexual Intercourse, of the Laws regulating that Intercourse, of Monogamy and Polygamy, of Prostitution, of Infidelity, ending with a catalogue raisonne of the defects of female beauty.

Another work in English also enters into great details of private and domestic life. It is called ''&quot;[[The Elements of Social Science]] or Physical, Sexual and Natural Religion, with a Solution of the Social Problem,&quot;'' by a Doctor of Medicine. London, ''Edward Truelove,'' 256, High Holborn. To persons interested in the above subjects this work wilt be found to contain such details as have been seldom before published, and which ought to be thoroughly understood by all philanthropists and benefactors of society.

After a perusal of the Hindoo work, and of the English books above mentioned, the reader will understand the subject, at all events from a materialistic, realistic, and practical point of view. If all science is founded more or less on a stratum of facts, there can be no harm in making known to mankind generally certain matters intimately connected with their private, domestic, and social life.

Alas! complete ignorance of them has unfortunately wrecked many a man and many a woman, while a little knowledge of a subject generally ignored by the masses would have enabled numbers of people to have understood many things which they believed to be quite incomprehensible, or which were not thought worthy of their consideration.
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{{italic block/s}}
It may be interesting to some persons to team how it came about that ''Vatsyayana'' was first brought to light and translated into the English language. It happened thus. While translating with the pundits the ''&quot;Anunga runga, or the stage of love,&quot;'' reference was frequently found to be made to one ''Vatsya''. The sage ''Vatsya'' was of this opinion, or of that opinion. The sage ''Vatsya'' said this, and so on. Naturally questions were asked who the sage was, and the pundits replied that ''Vatsya'' was the author of the standard work on love in Sanscrit literature, that no Sanscrit library was complete without his work, and that it was most difficult now to obtain in its entire state. The copy of the manuscript obtained in Bombay was defective, and so the pundits wrote to Benares, Calcutta, and Jeypoor for copies of the manuscript from Sanscrit libraries in those places. Copies having been obtained, they were then compared with each other, and with the aid of a Commentary called ''&quot;Jayamangla&quot;'' a revised copy of the entire manuscript was prepared, and from this copy the English translation was made. The following is the certificate of the chief pundit:—

&quot;The accompanying manuscript is corrected by me after comparing four different copies of the work. I had the assistance of a Commentary called ''{{'}}Jayamangla{{'}}'' for correcting the portion in the first five parts, but found great difficulty in correcting the remaining portion, because, with the exception of one copy thereof which was tolerably correct, all the other copies I had were far too incorrect. However, I took that portion as correct in which the majority of the copies agreed with each other.&quot;

The ''&quot;Aphorisms on Love,&quot;'' by ''Vatsyayana'' contain about one thousand two hundred and fifty slokas or verses, and are divided into parts, parts into chapters, and chapters into paragraphs. The whole consists of seven parts, thirty-six chapters, and sixty-four paragraphs. Hardly anything is known about the author. His real name is supposed to be ''Viallinaga'' or ''Mrillana'', ''Vatsyayana'' being his family name. At the close of the work this is what he writes about himself: 

&quot;After reading and considering the works of ''Babhravya'' and other ancient authors, and thinking over the meaning of the rules given by them, this treatise was composed, according&lt;noinclude&gt;{{italic block/e}}
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{{italic block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;to the precepts of the Holy Writ, for the benefit of the world, by ''Vatsyayana'', while leading the life of a religious student at Benares, and wholly engaged in the contemplation of the Deity. This work is not to be used merely as an instrument for satisfying our desires. A person acquainted with the true principles of this science, who preserves his ''Dharma'' (virtue or religious merit), his ''Artha'' (worldly wealth), and his ''Kama'' (pleasure or sensual gratification), and who has regard to the customs of the people, is sure to obtain the mastery over his senses. In short, an intelligent and knowing person, attending to ''Dharma'' and ''Artha'' and also to ''Kama'', without becoming the slave of his passions, will obtain success in everything that he may do.&quot;

It is impossible to fix the exact date either of the life of ''Vatsyayana'' or of his work. It is supposed that he must have lived between the first and sixth century of the Christian era, on the following grounds:—He mentions that  ''Satkarni Satvahan,'' a king of ''Kuntal'', killed ''Malayevati'' his wife with an instrument called ''kartari'' by striking her in the passion of love, and ''Vatsya'' quotes this case to warn people of the danger arising from some old customs of striking woman when under the influence of this passion. Now this king of ''Kuntal'' is believed to have lived and reigned during the first century {{fine|A.D.}} and consequently ''Vatsya'' must have lived after him. On the other hand, ''Virahamihira'', in the {{SIC|eighteenh}} chapter of his ''&quot;Brihatsanhita.''&quot; treats of the science of love, and appears to have borrowed largely from ''Vatsyayana'' on the subject. Now ''Virahamihira'' is said to have lived during the sixth century {{fine|A.D.}}, and as ''Vatsya'' must have written his works previously, therefore not earlier than the first century {{fine|A.D.}}, and not later than the sixth century {{fine|A.D.}}, must be considered as the approximate date of his existence.

On the text of the ''&quot;Aphorisms on Love,&quot;'' by ''Vatsyayana'', only two commentaries have been found. One called ''&quot;Jayamangla&quot;'' or ''&quot;Sutrabashya,&quot;'' and {{SIC|other other}} ''&quot;Sutra vritti.&quot;'' The date of the ''&quot;Jayamangla&quot;'' is fixed between the tenth and thirteenth century {{fine|A.D.}}, because while treating of the sixty-four arts an example is taken from the ''&quot;Kavyaprakasha.&quot;'' which was written about the tenth century {{fine|A.D.}} Again, the copy of the commentary procured was evidently a transcript of a manuscript which once had a place in the library of a ''Chaulukyan'' king named ''Vishaladeva'', a fact elicited from the following sentence at the end of it:—
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{{italic block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;to the precepts of the Holy Writ, for the benefit of the world, by ''Vatsyayana'', while leading the life of a religious student at Benares, and wholly engaged in the contemplation of the Deity. This work is not to be used merely as an instrument for satisfying our desires. A person acquainted with the true principles of this science, who preserves his ''Dharma'' (virtue or religious merit), his ''Artha'' (worldly wealth), and his ''Kama'' (pleasure or sensual gratification), and who has regard to the customs of the people, is sure to obtain the mastery over his senses. In short, an intelligent and knowing person, attending to ''Dharma'' and ''Artha'' and also to ''Kama'', without becoming the slave of his passions, will obtain success in everything that he may do.&quot;

It is impossible to fix the exact date either of the life of ''Vatsyayana'' or of his work. It is supposed that he must have lived between the first and sixth century of the Christian era, on the following grounds:—He mentions that  ''Satkarni Satvahan,'' a king of ''Kuntal'', killed ''Malayevati'' his wife with an instrument called ''kartari'' by striking her in the passion of love, and ''Vatsya'' quotes this case to warn people of the danger arising from some old customs of striking woman when under the influence of this passion. Now this king of ''Kuntal'' is believed to have lived and reigned during the first century ''{{fine|A.D.}}'' and consequently ''Vatsya'' must have lived after him. On the other hand, ''Virahamihira'', in the {{SIC|eighteenh}} chapter of his ''&quot;Brihatsanhita.''&quot; treats of the science of love, and appears to have borrowed largely from ''Vatsyayana'' on the subject. Now ''Virahamihira'' is said to have lived during the sixth century ''{{fine|A.D.}}'', and as ''Vatsya'' must have written his works previously, therefore not earlier than the first century ''{{fine|A.D.}}'', and not later than the sixth century ''{{fine|A.D.}}'', must be considered as the approximate date of his existence.

On the text of the ''&quot;Aphorisms on Love,&quot;'' by ''Vatsyayana'', only two commentaries have been found. One called ''&quot;Jayamangla&quot;'' or ''&quot;Sutrabashya,&quot;'' and {{SIC|other other}} ''&quot;Sutra vritti.&quot;'' The date of the ''&quot;Jayamangla&quot;'' is fixed between the tenth and thirteenth century ''{{fine|A.D.}}'', because while treating of the sixty-four arts an example is taken from the ''&quot;Kavyaprakasha.&quot;'' which was written about the tenth century ''{{fine|A.D.}}'' Again, the copy of the commentary procured was evidently a transcript of a manuscript which once had a place in the library of a ''Chaulukyan'' king named ''Vishaladeva'', a fact elicited from the following sentence at the end of it:—
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{{italic block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;to the precepts of the Holy Writ, for the benefit of the world, by ''Vatsyayana'', while leading the life of a religious student at Benares, and wholly engaged in the contemplation of the Deity. This work is not to be used merely as an instrument for satisfying our desires. A person acquainted with the true principles of this science, who preserves his ''Dharma'' (virtue or religious merit), his ''Artha'' (worldly wealth), and his ''Kama'' (pleasure or sensual gratification), and who has regard to the customs of the people, is sure to obtain the mastery over his senses. In short, an intelligent and knowing person, attending to ''Dharma'' and ''Artha'' and also to ''Kama'', without becoming the slave of his passions, will obtain success in everything that he may do.&quot;

It is impossible to fix the exact date either of the life of ''Vatsyayana'' or of his work. It is supposed that he must have lived between the first and sixth century of the Christian era, on the following grounds:—He mentions that  ''Satkarni Satvahan,'' a king of ''Kuntal'', killed ''Malayevati'' his wife with an instrument called ''kartari'' by striking her in the passion of love, and ''Vatsya'' quotes this case to warn people of the danger arising from some old customs of striking woman when under the influence of this passion. Now this king of ''Kuntal'' is believed to have lived and reigned during the first century ''{{smaller|A.D.}}'' and consequently ''Vatsya'' must have lived after him. On the other hand, ''Virahamihira'', in the {{SIC|eighteenh}} chapter of his ''&quot;Brihatsanhita.''&quot; treats of the science of love, and appears to have borrowed largely from ''Vatsyayana'' on the subject. Now ''Virahamihira'' is said to have lived during the sixth century ''{{smaller|A.D.}}'', and as ''Vatsya'' must have written his works previously, therefore not earlier than the first century ''{{smaller|A.D.}}'', and not later than the sixth century ''{{smaller|A.D.}}'', must be considered as the approximate date of his existence.

On the text of the ''&quot;Aphorisms on Love,&quot;'' by ''Vatsyayana'', only two commentaries have been found. One called ''&quot;Jayamangla&quot;'' or ''&quot;Sutrabashya,&quot;'' and {{SIC|other other}} ''&quot;Sutra vritti.&quot;'' The date of the ''&quot;Jayamangla&quot;'' is fixed between the tenth and thirteenth century ''{{smaller|A.D.}}'', because while treating of the sixty-four arts an example is taken from the ''&quot;Kavyaprakasha.&quot;'' which was written about the tenth century ''{{smaller|A.D.}}'' Again, the copy of the commentary procured was evidently a transcript of a manuscript which once had a place in the library of a ''Chaulukyan'' king named ''Vishaladeva'', a fact elicited from the following sentence at the end of it:—
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{{italic block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;Here ends the part relating to the art of love in the commentary on the ''&quot;Vatsyayana Kama Sutra,&quot;'' a copy from the library of the king of kings, ''Vishaladeva'', who was a powerful hero, as it were a second ''Arjuna'', and head jewel of the ''Chaulukya'' family.&quot; 

Now it is well known that this king ruled in ''Guzerat'' from 1244 to 1262 ''{{smaller|A.D.}}'', and founded a city called ''Visalnagur''. The date, therefore, of the commentary is taken to be not earlier than the tenth and not later than the thirteenth century. The author of it is supposed to be one ''Yashodhara'', the name given him by his preceptor being ''Indrapada''. He seems to have written it during the time of affliction caused by his separation from a clever and shrewd woman, at least that is what he himself says at the end of each chapter. It is presumed that he called his work after the name of his absent mistress, or the word may have some connection with the meaning of her name. 

This commentary was most useful in explaining the true meaning of ''Vatsyayana'', for the commentator appears to have had a considerable knowledge of the times of the older author, and gives in some places very minute information. This cannot be said of the other commentary, called ''&quot;Sutra vritti,&quot;'' which was written about ''{{smaller|A.D.}}'' 1789, by ''Narsing Shastri'', a pupil of a ''Sarveshwar Shastri;'' the latter was a descendant of ''Bhaskur'', and so also was our author, for at the conclusion of every part he calls himself ''Bhaskur Narsing Shastri''. He was induced to write the work by order of the learned ''Raja Vrijalala'', while he was residing in Benares, but as to the merits of this commentary it does not deserve much commendation. In many cases the writer does not appear to have understood the true meaning of the original author, and has changed the text in many places to fit in with his own explanations. 

A complete translation of the original work now follows. It has been prepared in complete accordance with the text of the manuscript, and is given, without further comments, as made from it.
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{{ph/sub|Salutation to Dharma, Artha, and Kama.}}

{{sc|In}} the beginning, the Lord of Beings created men and women, and in the form of commandments in one hundred thousand chapters laid down rules for regulating their existence with regard to ''Dharma'',&lt;ref&gt;''Dharma'' is acquisition of religious merit, and is fully described in Chapter 5, Volume III, of ''Talboys Wheeler's &quot;History of India,&quot;'' and in the edicts of ''Asoka''.&lt;/ref&gt; ''Artha'',&lt;ref&gt;''Artha'' is acquisition of wealth and property, etc.&lt;/ref&gt; and ''Kama''.&lt;ref&gt;Kama is love, pleasure and sensual gratification.

{{pbr}}These three words are retained throughout in their original, as technical terms. They may also be defined as virtue, wealth, and pleasure, the three things repeatedly spoken of in the Laws of Manu.&lt;/ref&gt; Some of these commandments, namely those which treated of ''Dharma'', were separately written by ''Swayambhu Manu''; those that related to ''Artha'' were compiled by ''Brihaspati''; and those that referred to ''Kama'' were expounded by ''Nandi'', the follower of ''Mahadeva'', in one thousand chapters.

Now these ''&quot;Kama Sutra&quot;'' (''Aphorisms on Love''), written by ''Nundi'' in one thousand chapters, were reproduced by ''Shvetaketu'', the son of ''Uddvalaka'', in an abbreviated form in five hundred chapters, and this work was again similarly reproduced in an abridged form, in one hundred and fifty chapters, by ''Babhravya'', an inheritant of the ''Punchala'' (South of Delhi) country. These one hundred and fifty chapters were then put together under seven heads or parts named severally—

: 1st. ''Sadharana'' (general topics).
: 2nd. ''Samprayogika'' (embraces, etc.).
: 3rd. ''Kanya Samprayuktaka'' (union of males and females).
: 4th. ''Bharyadhikarika'' (on one's own wife).
: 5th. ''Paradarika'' (on the wives of other people).
: 6th. ''Vaisika'' (on courtezans).
: 7th. ''Aupamishadika'' (on the arts of seduction, tonic medicines, etc.).

The sixth part of this last work was separately expounded by ''Dattaka'' at the request of the public women of ''Pataliputra'' (''Patna''), and in the same way ''Charayana'' explained the first&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}
{{c|6}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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LECTURE THE FIRST.

INDIA THE LAND OF RELIGIONS. – THE VEDA.

Multiplicity of Hindu religions – Brahmanism – Buddhism – Profound hold of religion upon the Hindu mind – Hindu life dominated by religious institutions – The four stages of life – The institution of caste – Caste then and now – Symptoms of revulsion against caste – Other pernicious religious institutions – Continuity of India's religious history – Date of the conception of ''ṛta,'' or &quot;cosmic order&quot; – Close relationship of the religions of India and Persia – Slight connection between India and Persia in secular history – The Parsis in India – Close relation between Veda and Avesta – The Veda and the Indo-European period – The Veda as a whole – The date of the Veda – Its great uncertainty – Nature of Vedic tradition – The Grotriyas, or &quot;Oral Traditionalists&quot; – Uncertain character of Vedic life and institutions – Origin of the Veda – Contents of Vedic literature as a whole – The four Vedas – The Rig-Veda – The books of the Rig-Veda – Theme and character of the Rig-Veda – A hymn to Goddess Dawn – The Yajur-Veda – Character of the ''yajus''-formulas – The Sāma-Veda – Origin and purpose of the Sama-Veda – The Atharva-Veda – Contents of the Atharva-Veda – Religious Quality of the Atharva-Veda – Two Atharvan hymns – The Brahmana Texts – Some legends of the Brāhmanas – The Āranyakas, or &quot;Forest Treatises&quot; – The Upanishads – Literary history&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|xi}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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LECTURE THE FIRST.

INDIA THE LAND OF RELIGIONS. – THE VEDA.

Multiplicity of Hindu religions – Brahmanism – Buddhism – Profound hold of religion upon the Hindu mind – Hindu life dominated by religious institutions – The four stages of life – The institution of caste – Caste then and now – Symptoms of revulsion against caste – Other pernicious religious institutions – Continuity of India's religious history – Date of the conception of ''ṛta,'' or &quot;cosmic order&quot; – Close relationship of the religions of India and Persia – Slight connection between India and Persia in secular history – The Parsis in India – Close relation between Veda and Avesta – The Veda and the Indo-European period – The Veda as a whole – The date of the Veda – Its great uncertainty – Nature of Vedic tradition – The Grotriyas, or &quot;Oral Traditionalists&quot; – Uncertain character of Vedic life and institutions – Origin of the Veda – Contents of Vedic literature as a whole – The four Vedas – The Rig-Veda – The books of the Rig-Veda – Theme and character of the Rig-Veda – A hymn to Goddess Dawn – The Yajur-Veda – Character of the ''yajus''-formulas – The Sāma-Veda – Origin and purpose of the Sāma-Veda – The Atharva-Veda – Contents of the Atharva-Veda – Religious Quality of the Atharva-Veda – Two Atharvan hymns – The Brāhmana Texts – Some legends of the Brāhmanas – The Āranyakas, or &quot;Forest Treatises&quot; – The Upanishads – Literary history&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|xi}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mw6ve4e4g20tuly7yklz3277hc7citx</sha1>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/12</title>
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of the Upanishads – The Upanishads in the West – Critical estimate of the Upanishads
1-59

LECTURE THE SECOND.

THE HIERATIC RELIGION. – THE PANTHEON OF THE VEDA.

Fundamental traits of early Vedic religion – False view of the nature of Vedic poetry – The Rig-Veda as sacrificial poetry – Difficulty of understanding the ritual character of the Rig-Veda – Poetry addressed to the Goddess Dawn – A hymn to the sacrifice post – The Goddess Dawn as the symbol of liberality at the sacrifice – Some erroneous estimates of Goddess Dawn – Agni the son of &quot;Baksheesh&quot; – Practical purposes of Vedic poetry – The Rig-Veda contains the religion of the upper classes – The ritual of the Rig-Veda – The ''āpri''-hymns – Nature-worship the keynote of the Rig-Veda – India's climate and nature-worship – Vedic and Hellenic mythology compared – Arrested anthropomorphism – Definition of the word Pantheon as applied to the Veda – -Faulty classifications of the Vedic gods – Chronology of the gods – Different degrees of certainty about the origin of the gods – Classification of the gods in these lectures
60-98

LECTURE THE THIRD.

THE PREHISTORIC GODS.

Two prehistoric periods bearing upon Hindu religion – Scepticism about Comparative Mythology – Difficulties in the way of Comparative Mythology – Comparative Mythology and Ethnology – The myth of Cerberus – The Indo-European period – Prehistoric words for god – Father Sky and Mother Earth – The Thunderer – The Vedic Açvins, or &quot;Horsemen,&quot; the two Sons of Heaven – The Dioscuri in Greek&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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of the Upanishads – The Upanishads in the West – Critical estimate of the Upanishads
1-59

LECTURE THE SECOND.

THE HIERATIC RELIGION. – THE PANTHEON OF THE VEDA.

Fundamental traits of early Vedic religion – False view of the nature of Vedic poetry – The Rig-Veda as sacrificial poetry – Difficulty of understanding the ritual character of the Rig-Veda – Poetry addressed to the Goddess Dawn – A hymn to the sacrifice post – The Goddess Dawn as the symbol of liberality at the sacrifice – Some erroneous estimates of Goddess Dawn – Agni the son of &quot;Baksheesh&quot; – Practical purposes of Vedic poetry – The Rig-Veda contains the religion of the upper classes – The ritual of the Rig-Veda – The ''āpri''-hymns – Nature-worship the keynote of the Rig-Veda – India's climate and nature-worship – Vedic and Hellenic mythology compared – Arrested anthropomorphism – Definition of the word Pantheon as applied to the Veda – Faulty classifications of the Vedic gods – Chronology of the gods – Different degrees of certainty about the origin of the gods – Classification of the gods in these lectures
60-98

LECTURE THE THIRD.

THE PREHISTORIC GODS.

Two prehistoric periods bearing upon Hindu religion – Scepticism about Comparative Mythology – Difficulties in the way of Comparative Mythology – Comparative Mythology and Ethnology – The myth of Cerberus – The Indo-European period – Prehistoric words for god – Father Sky and Mother Earth – The Thunderer – The Vedic Açvins, or &quot;Horsemen,&quot; the two Sons of Heaven – The Dioscuri in Greek&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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mythology – The Lettish myth of the two &quot;Sons of God&quot; – Common kernel of the myth of the two &quot;Sons of Heaven&quot; – The Aryan, or Indo-Iranian period – Important religious ideas common to the two peoples – The dual gods Varuna and Mitra – Ahura Mazda and Varuna – The conception of ''rta,'' or &quot;cosmic order&quot; – The Ādityas – Aditi, the mother of the Ādityas – Mitra, a sun god – The sun, the moon, and the planets – The Ādityas and Amesha Spentas – Early ethical concepts among the Indo-Europeans – Varuna and Greek Ouranos (Uranus) – The origin of man – Sundry parents of man – &quot;Father Manu&quot; – Yama and Yamī, the &quot;Twins&quot; – Interlacing of the myths of the first man – The human character of Manu and Yama – Yama, the god of the dead – Soma, the sacrificial drink of the gods – The myth of Soma and the Heavenly Eagle – Value of the preceding reconstructions
99-149

LECTURE THE FOURTH.

THE TRANSPARENT, TRANSLUCENT, AND OPAQUE GODS – RELIGIOUS CONCEPTIONS AND RELIGIOUS FEELING IN THE VEDA.

The transparent gods: their importance for the study of religion – Father Sky and Daughter Dawn – Sūrya, a god of the sun – Vāta and Vayu, gods of wind – The most transparent god: Agni, Fire – Agni as the sacrifice fire – Prehistoric gods of fire – Birth and youth of Agni – Agni as god of the morning – New births of Agni – Agni on the altar, the agent of the gods – Priesthood and divinity of Agni – A hymn to Agni – Other myths of the Fire God – The translucent gods: definition of the term – God Vishnu – God Pūshan – God Indra, as an example of an opaque god – Traditional explanation of the myth of Indra and Vritra – Professor Hillebrandt's inter-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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mythology – The Lettish myth of the two &quot;Sons of God&quot; – Common kernel of the myth of the two &quot;Sons of Heaven&quot; – The Aryan, or Indo-Iranian period – Important religious ideas common to the two peoples – The dual gods Varuna and Mitra – Ahura Mazda and Varuna – The conception of ''ṛta,'' or &quot;cosmic order&quot; – The Ādityas – Aditi, the mother of the Ādityas – Mitra, a sun god – The sun, the moon, and the planets – The Ādityas and Amesha Spentas – Early ethical concepts among the Indo-Europeans – Varuna and Greek Ouranos (Uranus) – The origin of man – Sundry parents of man – &quot;Father Manu&quot; – Yama and Yamī, the &quot;Twins&quot; – Interlacing of the myths of the first man – The human character of Manu and Yama – Yama, the god of the dead – Soma, the sacrificial drink of the gods – The myth of Soma and the Heavenly Eagle – Value of the preceding reconstructions
99-149

LECTURE THE FOURTH.

THE TRANSPARENT, TRANSLUCENT, AND OPAQUE GODS – RELIGIOUS CONCEPTIONS AND RELIGIOUS FEELING IN THE VEDA.

The transparent gods: their importance for the study of religion – Father Sky and Daughter Dawn – Sūrya, a god of the sun – Vāta and Vayu, gods of wind – The most transparent god: Agni, Fire – Agni as the sacrifice fire – Prehistoric gods of fire – Birth and youth of Agni – Agni as god of the morning – New births of Agni – Agni on the altar, the agent of the gods – Priesthood and divinity of Agni – A hymn to Agni – Other myths of the Fire God – The translucent gods: definition of the term – God Vishnu – God Pūshan – God Indra, as an example of an opaque god – Traditional explanation of the myth of Indra and Vritra – Professor Hillebrandt's inter-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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pretation of the same myth – Renewed definition of the religion of the Rig-Veda – Renewed definition of Vedic practicalities – Conflicting prayers and sacrifices – The conception of faith – Faith related to Truth and Wisdom – Faith personified – Faith and works – The reward for faith postponed to heaven – Contrast between early &quot;faith&quot; (''çraddha'') and later &quot;devotion&quot; (''bhakti'') – &quot;Gift praises,&quot; another sop to the sacrificer – The religious feeling of the Rig-Veda. – The utilitarian sense--The glory of the gods. – Absence of real sentiment towards the gods – Poetic inspiration the true religious feeling – The complacent master-singers – The poets' own estimate of their work – The divine quality of devotion
150-207

LECTURE THE FIFTH.

THE BEGINNINGS OF HINDU THEOSOPHY.

Statement of the problem – Time when theosophy originated – Metempsychosis and pessimism unknown in the earlier Vedic records – Place where the higher religion originated – Priest philosophy at the sacrifice – The theosophic charade – Specimens of the theosophic charade – The riddle hymn of Dirghatamas – Interrelation between the sacrifice and theosophy – On the supposed origin of theosophy with the royal caste – Criticism of this view – Transition from ritualistic polytheism to theosophy – Early scepticism  – &quot;Götterdämmerung&quot; – Failure of God Varuna – Monism, or the idea of unity – The creation hymn – Translation and analysis of the creation hymn – Attempts at Monotheism – Prajāpati, the Lord of Creatures – Viçvakarman, creator of the universe, and kindred conceptions – Purusha, the world man – Brihaspati, the Lord of Devotion – Transcendental monotheistic conceptions: &quot;Time,&quot; &quot;Love,&quot; etc. – Defects of the earlier monotheistic and monistic attempts
208-248&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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pretation of the same myth – Renewed definition of the religion of the Rig-Veda – Renewed definition of Vedic practicalities – Conflicting prayers and sacrifices – The conception of faith – Faith related to Truth and Wisdom – Faith personified – Faith and works – The reward for faith postponed to heaven – Contrast between early &quot;faith&quot; (''çraddha'') and later &quot;devotion&quot; (''bhakti'') – &quot;Gift praises,&quot; another sop to the sacrificer – The religious feeling of the Rig-Veda. – The utilitarian sense – The glory of the gods. – Absence of real sentiment towards the gods – Poetic inspiration the true religious feeling – The complacent master-singers – The poets' own estimate of their work – The divine quality of devotion
150-207

LECTURE THE FIFTH.

THE BEGINNINGS OF HINDU THEOSOPHY.

Statement of the problem – Time when theosophy originated – Metempsychosis and pessimism unknown in the earlier Vedic records – Place where the higher religion originated – Priest philosophy at the sacrifice – The theosophic charade – Specimens of the theosophic charade – The riddle hymn of Dirghatamas – Interrelation between the sacrifice and theosophy – On the supposed origin of theosophy with the royal caste – Criticism of this view – Transition from ritualistic polytheism to theosophy – Early scepticism  – &quot;Götterdämmerung&quot; – Failure of God Varuna – Monism, or the idea of unity – The creation hymn – Translation and analysis of the creation hymn – Attempts at Monotheism – Prajāpati, the Lord of Creatures – Viçvakarman, creator of the universe, and kindred conceptions – Purusha, the world man – Brihaspati, the Lord of Devotion – Transcendental monotheistic conceptions: &quot;Time,&quot; &quot;Love,&quot; etc. – Defects of the earlier monotheistic and monistic attempts
208-248&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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LECTURE THE SIXTH.

THE FINAL PHILOSOPHY OF THE VEDA.

Death and future life in paradise – Early notions of Hell – The idea of retribution – Limit of reward for good deeds – The notion of &quot;death-anew,&quot; or &quot;re-death&quot; – How comes the belief in transmigration – Hindu doctrine of transmigration – The method of transmigration – The doctrine of karma, or spiritual evolution – How transmigration and karma appear to Western minds – The pessimist theory of life – Cause of Hindu pessimism – Pessimism and the perfect principle (Brahma) – Dualistic pessimism – Salvation through realisation of one's own Brahmahood – The conception of the ''ātman,'' &quot;breath,&quot; as life principle – Ātman, the soul of the Universe – Brahma, the spiritual essence of the Universe – Fusion of Ātman and Brahma – Māyā, or the world an illusion – The unknowableness of Brahma – Emerson's poem on the Brahma – The fulness of Brahma: a story of Yājnavalkya and his wife Maitreyī – Transition from philosophy to piety – Hindu asceticism – Professor Huxley's critique of ascetiism – Pilgrim's progress under the religion of Brahma – Investiture and disciplehood – The life of the householder – The life of the forest-dweller and wandering ascetic – Ultima Thule
249-289

INDEX
291&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1600" sha1="mqyvx14wfko30zlf9colf3172odqwwr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Srkris&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;LECTURE THE FIRST.

INDIA THE LAND OF RELIGIONS. – THE VEDA.

Multiplicity of Hindu religions – Brahmanism – Buddhism – Profound hold of religion upon the Hindu mind – Hindu life dominated by religious institutions – The four stages of life – The institution of caste – Caste then and now – Symptoms of revulsion against caste – Other pernicious religious institutions – Continuity of India's religious history – Date of the conception of ''ṛta,'' or &quot;cosmic order&quot; – Close relationship of the religions of India and Persia – Slight connection between India and Persia in secular history – The Parsis in India – Close relation between Veda and Avesta – The Veda and the Indo-European period – The Veda as a whole – The date of the Veda – Its great uncertainty – Nature of Vedic tradition – The Grotriyas, or &quot;Oral Traditionalists&quot; – Uncertain character of Vedic life and institutions – Origin of the Veda – Contents of Vedic literature as a whole – The four Vedas – The Rig-Veda – The books of the Rig-Veda – Theme and character of the Rig-Veda – A hymn to Goddess Dawn – The Yajur-Veda – Character of the ''yajus''-formulas – The Sāma-Veda – Origin and purpose of the Sāma-Veda – The Atharva-Veda – Contents of the Atharva-Veda – Religious Quality of the Atharva-Veda – Two Atharvan hymns – The Brāhmana Texts – Some legends of the Brāhmanas – The Āranyakas, or &quot;Forest Treatises&quot; – The Upanishads – Literary history of the Upanishads – The Upanishads in the West – Critical estimate of the Upanishads.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/27</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2048107</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132800</id>
      <parentid>12556121</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:01:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
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      <text bytes="1338" sha1="6xk6c5hwz68juqfu7izwvc08xg8xspj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||India the Land of Religions|11}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;a friendly refuge for themselves and the religion of Zarathushtra (Zoroaster) in the West of India. Aside from that there is no record of permanent outside influence on a larger scale, until, in the last century, the above-mentioned Brāhma Samāj, a kind of religious Volapük, or Esperanto, undertakes, in the most praiseworthy spirit, upon a universal theistic platform, to blend and harmonise the best in Hindu religious thought, with the best that may be found in other religions. In this way Hindu religion is more strictly native than any of the great religions of mankind. This is no doubt due mainly to India's geographical isolation, and to her insular secular history. It has had the merit of keeping her religious development continuous and organic. Every important idea has a traceable past history; every important idea is certain to develop in the future. We may say that a body of 3500 years of organic religious growth lies more or less open before the eyes of the student of India's religions, to dissect, to study, and to philosophise upon.

This great period of time has of late become definite in a rather important sense. Within recent years there were discovered at Tel-el-Amarna, in Upper Egypt, numerous cuneiform tablets containing letters from tributary kings of Babylonia,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6xk6c5hwz68juqfu7izwvc08xg8xspj</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/28</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2048108</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132808</id>
      <parentid>12556122</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:07:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
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      <text bytes="1453" sha1="qc48l2n5t7ah3v98ziijrnct7ncfn3n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|12|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Assyria, Mitani, Phœnicia, and Canaan, addressed to certain Egyptian Pharaohs, their liege lords. These tablets have thrown much new light upon the history of Western Asia. There is among them a letter written by a king of Mitani in Syria, Dushratta by name. In this letter figure among others the names of his brother Artashuvara and his grandfather Artatama. These names are obviously Iranian (Persian), or &quot;Iranoid&quot;; with the tablets themselves they date back to at least 1600 B.C.&lt;ref&gt;See the author, ''American Journal of Philology,'' xxv., p. 8; F. Hommel in ''Sitzungsberichte der Königlich Böhmischen Gesellschaft der Wissenschaften,'' 1898, Number vi.&lt;/ref&gt; The names Artashuvara and Artatama open out with the syllables ''arta-,'' familiar to Western students of history as part of the numberless Persian names like Artaxerxes, Artaphernes, etc. This stem ''arta'' is identical with ''arta-'' of the Western Iranian, Achemenidan inscriptions, with ''asha'' of the Avesta, and with ''ṛta'' of the Veda. The word means &quot;cosmic order,&quot; or &quot;order of the universe.&quot; We shall find it later on, figuring as one of the most important religious conceptions of the Rig-Veda. We have here at any rate a definite lower date for the idea; it is likely to have existed a long time before 1600 B.C. From the point of view of the history of religious ideas we may, in fact we must, begin the history of Hindu religion at&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/29</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2048109</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132813</id>
      <parentid>12556123</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:09:53Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1388" sha1="mzl7yvec0sx23xnnlzoymsu2zm00ci3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||India the Land of Religions|13}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;least with the history of this conception. Broad as the ocean, and as uninterrupted in its sweep there lies before us a period of thousands of years of the religious thought and practice of the most religious people in the history of the world.

Now this brings us face to face with the tried and true fact that the religious history of India does not really begin at the time when the Veda, the earliest literature, was composed, but that it begins much earlier. In the first place, it shares a fairly clear common life with the ancient religion of Iran (Persia) in a prehistoric time, the so-called Indo-Iranian or Aryan period.&lt;ref&gt;See below page 119.&lt;/ref&gt; The reconstruction of these common religious properties is purely prehistoric. It partakes of the fate of all prehistoric studies; it is not definite, but more or less hazy. Yet, such as it is, it counts fairly with the best that may be achieved in this way. It is based upon the plainly evident relationship between the Hindu Veda and the Persian Avesta, the most ancient sacred books of the two peoples. No student of either religion questions that they drew largely from a common source, and therefore mutually illumine each other.

I am sure that the full meaning of this last statement will appear clearer after a word of explanation. Students of profane history are accustomed to see&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/30</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2048110</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131649</id>
      <parentid>12556124</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:47:13Z</timestamp>
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        <username>8582e</username>
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      <text bytes="1433" sha1="q4gz9bsu5iuoth3pgevc32rimbb9vdz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|14|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ancient Persia with her face turned westward. It is to them the Persia that conquers, or controls through her satrapies, Assyria and Babylonia, Palestine, Egypt, or parts of Asia Minor. It is to them the Persia that falls down before Greece. In the day of her greatest glory Darius I. Hystaspes carved into the Behistan rock, 300 feet above the ground, the hugh trilingual cuneiform inscription, in which he claims suzerainty over twenty-three countries. To all intents and purposes he claims the earth for his own. Among the countries mentioned are parts adjacent to the extreme north-west of India: Drangiana, Arachosia, Gandhāra, etc. Between 500-330 B.C., the rule of the Achemenidan Persian dynasty had without doubt sent out its loosely attached satrapies to the land of the Indus River. But this did not result in the permanent attachment of one country to the other. Again, the so-called Graeco-Parthian rulers, successors of Alexander the Great in the Persian countries of Parthia and Baktria, from about 200 B.C. to 200 A.D., established principalities in the north-west of India, notably the Indo-Parthian kingdoms of Taxila and Arachosia.&lt;ref&gt;See Vincent Smith, ''The Indo-Parthian Dynasties,'' in ''Journal of the German Oriental Society,'' vol. lx., p. 49 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; But this political relation, again, proved unstable and transient.

A small number of Parsis, after the Mohammedan&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/33</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2048113</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132549</id>
      <parentid>12556128</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:37:30Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1284" sha1="72cz03ol6vcvzwlt1my5l3dbfry0fnw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Srkris&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Veda|17}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the shaping of Vedic thought. For the present it will be advantageous to turn to the Vedic religion of historic times, so that there may be some basis for discriminating between what is old and what is new. And as it would not be gracious to presume too much knowledge of so remote a theme as the Veda, we must first describe briefly the documents of which consists the Veda, the most ancient literary monument of India, the most ancient literary document of the Indo-European peoples – the foundation for all time of India's religious thought.

THE VEDA

The word ''veda'' means literally “knowledge,&quot; that is, &quot;sacred knowledge.&quot; It is derived from ''vid,'' &quot;to know,&quot; and connected with Greek (F)''οἶδα,'' Gothic ''wait,'' German ''weiss,'' English wit, &quot;to know.&quot; The term Veda is used in two ways: either as the collective designation of the entire oldest sacred literature of India, or as the specific name of single books belonging to that literature. So then, on the one hand, we speak of ''the'' Veda as the bible of ancient India; or, on the other hand, we speak of Rig-Veda, Atharva-Veda, etc., as individual books of that great collection. The number of books which, in one sense or another, are counted as Veda is a hundred or more. The Hindus&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/34</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2048114</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132546</id>
      <parentid>12556129</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:30:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
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      <origin>15132546</origin>
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      <text bytes="1366" sha1="l7z85hn0g0cj2ph38v1v1nxgfbeshhl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|18|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;themselves were never very keen about canonicity; quasi-Vedic books, or, as we should say, Pseudo-Vedic books were composed at a very late date, when the various and peculiar sources of early inspiration had dried up; they kept pouring new, mostly sour wine into the old skins. The huge Concordance of the Vedas, which it has been my fate to publish this year (1906), absorbs about 120 texts more or less Vedic.

It is truly humiliating to students of ancient India to have to answer the inevitable question as to the age of the Veda with a meek, &quot;We don't know.&quot; As regards their texture, the books of the Veda claim great antiquity with no uncertain voice. One should like to see this intrinsically archaic quality held up by actual dates; those same, almost fabulous, yet perfectly authentic dates that are being bandied about in the ancient history of Assyria, Babylonia, and Egypt. The late Professor William D. Whitney left behind the witty saying that Hindu dates are merely ten-pins set up to be bowled down again. This is not altogether so. Buddha died 477 B.C. Alexander invaded India in 326 B.C. In the year 315 B.C. Candragupta, or Sandrakottos, &quot;Alexander-Killer,&quot; as Greek writers ominously mouthed over his name, led a successful revolt against Alexander's prefects and established the Maurya dynasty in Pātaliputra,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/35</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2048115</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132543</id>
      <parentid>12556130</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:27:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132543</origin>
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      <text bytes="1376" sha1="ox47u4jy6o57ng0vkaikv1pnts7mbxv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Veda|19}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the Palibothra of the Greeks, the Patna of to-day. The most important date in Hindu secular history is that of Candragupta's grandson, the famous Buddhist Emperor Açoka or Piyadassi, who ruled India from north to south around about 250 B.C. His edicts, carved into rock all over his great empire, show us the singular spectacle of a great ruler who used his power to propagate his religion peacefully. His inscriptions upon pillars and rocks boast not of victory or heroic deed; they exhort his people to virtue, warn against sin, and plead for tolerance and love of humanity. This is an important date in the history of India, but an even more important date in the history of good manners.

Unquestionably a century or two must have passed between the conclusion of the Vedic period and the beginnings of Buddhism. Buddhist literature presupposes Brahmanical literature and religion in a stage of considerable advancement beyond the Vedas. We are, therefore, reasonably safe in saying that the real Vedic period was concluded about 700 B.C. We are further on safe ground in demanding a number of centuries for the much stratified language, literature, and religion of the Veda. But how many? It is as easy to imagine three as thirteen or twenty-three. Only one thing is certain. Vedic ideas are very old. I have noted the fact that the concept ''ṛat,''&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/36</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2048116</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132513</id>
      <parentid>12556132</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:57:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132513</origin>
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      <text bytes="1343" sha1="7bittyk210yi3bbfy503wxcy6yasud9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|20|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;cosmic or universal order,&quot; is found in cut and dried Iranian names in Western Asia as early as 1600 B.C. I am, for my part, and I think I voice many scholars, now much more inclined to listen to an early date, say 2000 B.C., for the beginnings of Vedic literary production, and to a much earlier date for the beginnings of the institutions and religious concepts which the Veda has derived from those prehistoric times which cast their shadows forward into the records that are in our hands. Anyhow, we must not be beguiled by that kind of conservatism which merely salves the conscience into thinking that there is better proof for any later date, such as 1500, 1200, or 1000 B.C., rather than the earlier date of 2000 B.C. Once more, frankly, we do not know.

Vedic tradition is in some respects the most remarkable in recorded history. From the entire Vedic period we have not one single piece of antiquarian or archæological material, not one bit of real property; not a building, nor a monument; not a coin, jewel, or utensil; – nothing but winged words. Even the manuscripts of these precious texts, splendid as we know their authority to be on inner evidence are of comparatively recent date. We do not know when the Vedas were first committed to writing. Even if they were written down during the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/50</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2048131</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132491</id>
      <parentid>12556149</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:33:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
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      <text bytes="1469" sha1="7k1i7c9gillc15hlj78y0fampln457w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|34|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;The Hindus have always had reason to fear serpents; they must have at times been stung by serpents whom they mistook for ropes, because the two things are often correlated in their literature. A Hindu figure of speech (or kenning) for serpent is &quot;toothed rope.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;See the author in ''Hymns of the Atharva-Veda'' (''Sacred Books of the East,'' vol. xlii.), pp. 147, 368.&lt;/ref&gt; For instance, a theosophic text of Upanishad character establishes the following comparison: &quot;As a rope which is not clearly seen in the dark is mistaken for a serpent, so the unenlightened mistake the character of their own self.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Māndūkya-Kārikā, 2. 17. ''Cf.'' the adage in ''Petronius,'' 45: ''colubra restem non parit,'' &quot;a serpent does not beget a rope.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt; That is to say, they do not comprehend the divine nature of their self. This is sensible, and there is sense also in the following: Kings are conceived as rulers of the earth. Therefore, at the ceremony of consecration the king looks down upon the earth, and prays: &quot;O mother Earth, do not injure me, nor let me injure thee!&quot; But often prayer passes over into litany, here as in other secondary stages of religious literature. The following is an all too typical case: &quot;May life prosper through the sacrifice! May life's breath prosper through the sacrifice! May the eye prosper through the sacrifice! May the ear prosper through the sacrifice! May the back prosper through the sac-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/51</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15132482</id>
      <parentid>12556150</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:24:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
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      <text bytes="1371" sha1="4ysa4ymkz4p3gafxw3ya6m2czpb8cvh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;The Veda
35&lt;/noinclude&gt;rifice!&quot; And finally – O deepest bathos! – &quot;May the sacrifice prosper through the sacrifice!&quot;&lt;ref&gt;''Cf.'' Winternitz, ''Geschichte der Indischen Litteratur,'' Part First, p. 155 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt;

The many thousand formulas of this sort which occur in the Yajur-Veda and its accessory literature are now for the first time collected in my Vedic Concordance. I am sure that the enduring impression which they leave upon the mind, aside from their partial foolishness, is that of a formalism and mental decay upon the very brink of dissolution. The practices which accompany these formulas, though they contain much that is natural and vigorous, are also covered up by silly details of formalism, so that it is often difficult to discover their real human meaning. It is remarkable, however, that new life springs up on this arid waste. It is as though this phase of Hindu religion had prepared itself by its very excesses for a salutary and complacent hara-kiri. In its last outcome, in the very same Brahmanical schools where all this folly runs riot, spring up the Upanishads, those early theosophic treatises of India which pave the way for her enduring philosophies. The Upanishads in reality, though not professedly, sweep aside the ritual like cobwebs, and show the Hindu mind, not yet perfectly trained, but far from choked; and quite capable of carrying&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4ysa4ymkz4p3gafxw3ya6m2czpb8cvh</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132483</id>
      <parentid>15132482</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:24:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132483</origin>
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      <text bytes="1379" sha1="ot81mmwsxmtnla6sppqpprg5avsje84" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Veda|35}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;rifice!&quot; And finally – O deepest bathos! – &quot;May the sacrifice prosper through the sacrifice!&quot;&lt;ref&gt;''Cf.'' Winternitz, ''Geschichte der Indischen Litteratur,'' Part First, p. 155 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt;

The many thousand formulas of this sort which occur in the Yajur-Veda and its accessory literature are now for the first time collected in my Vedic Concordance. I am sure that the enduring impression which they leave upon the mind, aside from their partial foolishness, is that of a formalism and mental decay upon the very brink of dissolution. The practices which accompany these formulas, though they contain much that is natural and vigorous, are also covered up by silly details of formalism, so that it is often difficult to discover their real human meaning. It is remarkable, however, that new life springs up on this arid waste. It is as though this phase of Hindu religion had prepared itself by its very excesses for a salutary and complacent hara-kiri. In its last outcome, in the very same Brahmanical schools where all this folly runs riot, spring up the Upanishads, those early theosophic treatises of India which pave the way for her enduring philosophies. The Upanishads in reality, though not professedly, sweep aside the ritual like cobwebs, and show the Hindu mind, not yet perfectly trained, but far from choked; and quite capable of carrying&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ot81mmwsxmtnla6sppqpprg5avsje84</sha1>
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      <text bytes="1425" sha1="50n55znd6fw2aobwfwqtzmozkvc8qlx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|36|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;on the development of Hindu religions to the really great results which they eventually reach.

The Sāma-Veda is of all the Vedas the least clear as regards its origin and purpose. As a literary production it is almost entirely secondary and negative. The Sāma-Veda is interesting chiefly, because it is the Veda of music. In addition it contains some original practices to which tradition has attached a number of legends unknown in the other Vedic schools. There are no connected hymns in this Veda, only more or less detached verses, borrowed in the main from the Rig-Veda. Even the sense of these verses is subordinated to the music to which they are set. The verses are grouped in strophes which, when accompanied by their music, are known as ''sāmāni,'' &quot;melodies.&quot; The ''sāman''-stanzas are preserved in three forms. First, in the Rig-Veda, as ordinary poetry accented in the usual way, and not accompanied by melodies. They are contained mostly in the first fifty hymns of the first book, and in Books viii and ix. Most of these stanzas are composed in the metre ''gāyatrī,'' or in strophes known as ''pragātha,'' which are compounded of ''gāyatrī'' and ''jagatī'' verse-lines. Both the words ''gāyatrī'' and ''pragātha'' are derived from the verb ''gai,'' &quot;sing,&quot; and show that the stanzas and strophes composed in these metres were from the start intended to be sung.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/55</title>
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      <text bytes="1349" sha1="63ig2p585jf9oms4i5sizpg051y7lxt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Veda|39}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Sāma-Veda is held in small regard. The Brahmanical law-books prescribe that the recitation of Rig-Veda and Yajur-Veda must stop whenever the shout of ''sāmans'' is heard. One of these law-books, for instance, counts the barking of dogs, the bray of asses, the howling of wolves, and the sound of the ''sāman'' as noises so obnoxious or defiling that, when heard, the study of the other Vedas must stop.&lt;ref&gt;Compare on this point Professor Ludwig's remark in ''Der Rig-Veda,'' vol. v., p. 8.&lt;/ref&gt;

The interest of the Sāma-Veda for the history of Hindu religion and literature amounts to very little. It represents in fact little more than the secondary employment in the service of religion of popular music and other quasi-musical noises. These were developed and refined in the course of civilisation, and worked into the formal ritual of Brahmanism in order to add an element of beauty and emotion. In more modern times the ''sāman''-chants at the sacrifice are said to be quite impressive.&lt;ref&gt;See the author in the ''Vienna Oriental Journal,'' vol. xvii., p. 162.&lt;/ref&gt;

The oldest name of the Atharva-Veda is ''atharvāñgirasah,'' a compound formed of the names of two semi-mythic families of priests, the Atharvans and Angirases. At a very early time the former term was regarded as synonymous with &quot;holy charms,&quot; or&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/61</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2048143</id>
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      <id>15131678</id>
      <parentid>12556160</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:08:13Z</timestamp>
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        <username>8582e</username>
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      <text bytes="1306" sha1="jphsl998kjsczt6a9iu1vwhsgwrp0p6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Veda|45}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;are distracted by the licenses and restrictions that go with poetic form. Secondly, the Brāhmanas are an almost inexhaustible mine for the history of the sacrifice, religious practices, and the institutions of priesthood. These institutions in time became so systematic and formidable as to make the names Brahman and Brahmanism typical everywhere for priest and priesthood. Thirdly, the Brāhmana texts not only describe and expound the sacrifice, but they illustrate and enliven it by numerous stories and legends. While engaged in expounding the technicalities of the ritual, they at the same time unconsciously supplement the poetic Vedas. The Hebrew Talmud interrupts the hair-splitting, logic-chopping expositions of its ritual Hallacha, by picking from time to time rare flowers from the garden of its Haggada, or legendary lore. The Brāhmanas no less make drafts upon the past and present of the great storehouse of myths and stories that India has cherished from the beginning of her time. The poetic value of many of these stories may be judged from the fact that they remain stock themes for the Hindu poets of later times.

Here we find, first of all, the story of the flood, wonderfully analogous to the flood legends of all Western Asia, and especially the account of the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1358" sha1="98py3ge8r56h4yejyfkyouemglfsbxj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|52|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;present we may content ourselves with some facts in the literary history of these extraordinary compositions. As regards their date we can say at least this much, that the older Upanishads antedate Buddha and Buddhism. The production of after-born Upanishads continued, however, many centuries after Buddhism, into very modern times. Next to the Rig-Veda the Upanishads are decidedly the most important literary document of early India. For the history of religion they are even more important.

In the year 1656 the Mogul (Mussalman) Prince Mohammed Dārā Shukoh invited several Hindu Pandits from Benares to Delhi, and induced them to translate the Upanishads into Persian. Dārā Shukoh was the oldest son of that Mogul Emperor Shah Jehān, who built at Agra, as a mausoleum for his favourite Sultana, the Taj Mahal, perhaps the most beautiful edifice on earth. He was afterwards deposed from the throne by another son of his, the bloody and powerful Emperor Aurengzeb. Dārā Shukoh was a man of another sort. He was the spiritual follower of the famous liberal Emperor Akbar, and wrote a book intended to reconcile the religious doctrines of the Hindus and Mohammedans. Hence his extraordinary desire to spread the knowledge of infidel writings. Three years after the accomplishment of the Upanishad translation he was&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1355" sha1="4d4njz5cl7ioud4pskgrf1di158pv8e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Veda|55}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;time the Upanishads were yet unknown in Europe. Notwithstanding its double disguise, first the Persian, and next the Latin, Anquetil's Latin rendering proved to be the medium through which Schopenhauer became acquainted with the thought of the Upanishads. As is well known, Schopenhauer, who is the father of Western pessimism, was powerfully impregnated with their pantheistic, or, more precisely, monistic philosophy. His own system is really based upon conceptions that coincide in one way or another with the more detached teachings of the Upanishads. Schopenhauer used to have the Oupnekhat lie open upon his table, and was in the habit, before going to bed, of performing his devotions from its pages. His own estimate of the character of the Oupnekhat is preserved to us in the following statement: &quot;Next to the original it is the most rewardful reading possible in the world. It has been the solace of my life; it will be the solace of my death.&quot; Schopenhauer himself tells us the reason for his faith in the Upanishads. The fundamental thought of the Upanishads, he says, is what has at all times called forth the scoffing of fools and the unceasing meditation of the wise, namely, the doctrine of unity; the doctrine that all plurality is only apparent; that in all individuals of this world, in whatsoever endless number they&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15132580</id>
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      <text bytes="1291" sha1="p5tdv5zztux55o3b8qbzyc6rqgeissz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|56|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;present themselves, one after another, and one beside another, there is manifested one and the same true being. Therefore the Upanishads are in his eyes the fruit of the profoundest insight that the world has ever seen; almost superhuman thought, whose authors can scarcely be imagined to have been mere men.

Schopenhauer unquestionably caught with lynx-like perspicacity, through the murky medium of the Oupnekhat, the spirit of the Upanishads, which are now before us in many editions of their Sanskrit originals. It is what is known in philosophy as monism – the most uncompromising, perfervid monism that the world has ever seen. Nor is his estimate of the religious or philosophical quality of the Upanishads to be brushed aside lightly. Professor Deussen, one of the profoundest living students of Hindu philosophy, himself a trained philosopher, does not fall far behind Schopenhauer when he says that the thought of the Upanishads has not its equal in India nor perhaps anywhere else in the world; that to these thinkers came, if not the most scientific, yet the most intimate and immediate insight into the ultimate mystery of being. This is not far behind Schopenhauer's estimate; both estimates reflect pretty nearly the position of the Hindus&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <parentid>12556178</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:58:21Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1369" sha1="54p8w7jiqvipm18uhq760fderern4d2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|58|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of the Upanishads is literary and historical, We are captivated by the quality of the endeavor more than by the quality of the thing accomplished.

From the literary side the Upanishads captivate not because they are finished products – they are anything but that – but because they show great power and originality as a kind of rhapsodic philosophic prose poems. From the point of view of the history of human thought, what entitles them to enduring respect is that they show us the human mind engaged in the most plucky and earnest search after truth – and let me add that this search is carried on in the sweetest of spirit, without fear of offending established interests, and entirely free from the zealotism that goes with a new intellectual era.

But the Upanishads do not contain consummation. On the contrary, it is the dear, familiar, earnest human fight, doomed rather to disappointment, which very early Hindus here carry on, to find the secret of the world and the secret of self-conscious man in the hiddenmost folds of their own heart – that is what always holds attention, and that is the endearing quality of these texts. Therefore it is true that, wherever the spirit of the Upanishads has been carried there has sprung up genuine human sympathy, if not final intellectual consent. How this is so I shall hope&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="336" sha1="40x7e5bz3efp70i52yjc38x6c543a8i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Veda|59}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;to show later, at the proper point in the development of the religion of the Veda. But for a good while we shall be occupied with more primitive religious forms, though even through these sounds from time to time, almost in the manner of a Wagnerian ''leitmotif,'' the clarion note of the leading Hindu idea.

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1417" sha1="gqs1lsn2xco3v1j7m90c57lzl0flfzj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Srkris&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;LECTURE THE SECOND.

The Hieratic Religion. – The Pantheon of the Veda.

Fundamental traits of early Vedic religion – False view of the nature of Vedic poetry – The Rig-Veda as sacrificial poetry – Difficulty of understanding the ritual character of the Rig-Veda – Poetry addressed to the Goddess Dawn – A hymn to the sacrifice post – The Goddess Dawn as the symbol of liberality at the sacrifice – Some erroneous estimates of Goddess Dawn – Agni the son of &quot;Baksheesh&quot; – Practical purposes of Vedic poetry – The Rig-Veda contains the religion of the upper classes – The ritual of the Rig-Veda – The ''āprī''-hymns – Nature-worship the keynote of the Rig-Veda – India's climate and nature-worship – Vedic and Hellenic mythology compared – Arrested anthropomorphism – Definition of the word Pantheon as applied to the Veda – Faulty classifications of the Vedic gods – Chronology of the gods – Different degrees of certainty about the origin of the gods – Classification of the gods in these lectures.


THE religion which is contained in the bulk of the the so-called &quot;revealed&quot; (''çrauta'') Vedic literature, that is in the main body of the hymns of the Rig-Veda, the Yajur Veda, the Sāma-Veda, and the Brahmanas, is a hieratic or priestly religion. As regards its mechanism, or its external practices, it is unmistakably liturgic or ritualistic. As regards its&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|60}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2289" sha1="ghuh51u7u4o0a3jk83ts56gn8i8yh4f" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER II.}}
{{ph/sub|On the Acquisition of Dharma, Artha and Kama}}

{{sc|Man}}, the period of whose life is one hundred years, should practice ''Dharma'', ''Artha'', and ''Kama'' at different times and in such a manner that they may harmonize together and not clash in any way. He should acquire learning in his childhood, in his youth and middle age he should attend to ''Artha'' and ''Kama'', and in his old age he should perform ''Dharma'', and thus seek to gain ''Moksha'', i.e., release from further transmigration. Or, on account of the uncertainty of life, he may practice them at times when they are enjoined to be practiced. But one thing is to be noted, he should lead the life of a religious student until he finishes his education.

''Dharma'' is obedience to the command of the ''Shastra'' or Holy Writ of the Hindoos to do certain things, such as the performance of sacrifices, which are not generally done, because they do not belong to this world, and produce no visible effect; and not to do other things, such as eating meat, which is often done because it belongs to this world, and has visible effects.

''Dharma'' should be learnt from the ''Shruti'' (Holy Writ), and from those conversant with it.

''Artha'' is the acquisition of arts, land, gold, cattle, wealth, equipages, and friends. It is, further, the protection of what is acquired, and the increase of what is protected.

''Artha'' should be learnt from the king's officers, and from merchants who may be versed in the ways of commerce.

''Kama'' is the enjoyment of appropriate objects by the five senses of hearing, feeling, seeing, tasting, and smelling, assisted by the mind together with the soul. The ingredient in this is a peculiar contact between the organ of sense and its object, and the consciousness of pleasure which arises from that contact is called Kama.

''Kama'' is to be learnt from the ''Kama Sutra'' (aphorisms on love) and from the practice of citizens.

When all the three, viz., ''Dharma'', ''Artha'', and ''Kama'' come together, the former is better than the one which follows it, i.e., ''Dharma'' is better than ''Artha'', and ''Artha'' is better than ''Kama''. But ''Artha'' should always be practiced by the king, for the livelihood of men is to be obtained from it only.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/35</title>
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      <text bytes="2146" sha1="tdmwlhf98kdnu8ds786fstgxgl4oiez" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|9 }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Again, ''Kama'' being the occupation of public women, they should prefer it to the other two, and these are exceptions to the general rule.

{{ph/sub|Objection.}}

Some learned men say that as ''Dharma'' is connected with things not belonging to this world, it is appropriately treated of in a book; and so also is ''Artha'', because it is practiced only by the application of proper means, and a knowledge of those means can only be obtained by study and from books. But ''Kama'' being a thing which is practiced even by the brute creation, and which is to be found everywhere, does not want any work on the subject.

{{ph/sub|Answer.}}

This is not so. Sexual intercourse being a thing dependent on man and woman requires the application of proper means by them, and those means are to be learnt from the ''Kama Shastra''. The non-application of proper means, which we see in the brute creation, is caused by their being unrestrained, and by the females among them only being fit for sexual intercourse at certain seasons and no more, and by their intercourse not being preceded by thought of any kind.

{{ph/sub|Objection 2.}}

The ''Lokayatikas''&lt;ref&gt;These were certainly materialists who seemed to think that a bird in the hand was worth two in the bush.&lt;/ref&gt; say:—Religious ordinances should not be observed, for they bear a future fruit, and at the same time it is also doubtful whether they will bear any fruit at all. What foolish person will give away that which is in his own hands into the hands of another? Moreover, it is better to have a pigeon today than a peacock tomorrow; and a copper coin which we have the certainty of obtaining, is better than a gold coin, the possession of which is doubtful.

{{ph/sub|Answer.}}

It is not so. 1st. Holy Writ, which ordains the practice of ''Dharma'', does not admit of a doubt.

2nd. Sacrifices such as those made for the destruction of enemies, or for the fall of rain, are seen to bear fruit.

3rd. The sun, moon, stars, planets and other heavenly bodies appear to work intentionally for the good of the world.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
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      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="822" sha1="ffmqlljan9dwi2n5vzjb8jnqhli8fhy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|7}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;part of it. The remaining parts, viz., the second, third, fourth, fifth, and seventh were each separately expounded by:—

: ''Suvarnanabha'' (second part).
: ''Ghotakamukha'' (third part).
: ''Gonatdiya'' (fourth part).
: ''Gonikaputra'' (fifth part).
: ''Kuchumara'' (seventh part), respectively.

Thus the work being written in part by different authors was almost unobtainable, and as the parts which were expounded by ''Dattaka'' and the others treated only of the particular branches of the subject to which each part related, and moreover as the original work of ''Babhravya'' was difficult to be mastered on account of its length, ''Vatsyayana'', therefore, composed this work in a small volume as an abstract of the whole of the works of the above-named authors.
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      <text bytes="2373" sha1="ie2vmz6o3qclo422fbxurv6w4jzf3ce" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|10|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;4th. The existence of this world is effected by the observance of the rules respecting the four classes&lt;ref&gt;Among the Hindoos the four classes of men are the ''Brahmans'' or priestly class, the ''Kshutrya'' or warlike class, the ''Vaishya'' or agricultural and mercantile class, and the ''Shoodra'' or menial class. The four stages of life are, the life of a religious student, the life of a householder, the life of a hermit, and the life of a ''Sunyasi'' or devotee.&lt;/ref&gt; of men and their four stages of life.

5th. We see that seed is thrown into the ground with the hope of future crops.

''Vatsyayana'' is therefore of opinion that the ordinances of religion must be obeyed.

{{ph/sub|Objection 3.}}

Those who believe that destiny is the prime mover of all things say:—We should not exert ourselves to acquire wealth, for sometimes it is not acquired although we strive to get it, while at other times it comes to us of itself without any exertion on our part. Everything is therefore in the power of destiny, who is the lord of gain and loss, of success and defeat, of pleasure and pain. Thus we see that ''Bali''&lt;ref&gt;''Bali'' was a demon who had conquered ''Indra'' and gained his throne, but was afterwards overcome by ''Vishnu'' at the time of his fifth incarnation.&lt;/ref&gt;  was raised to the throne of ''Indra'' by destiny, and was also put down by the same power, and it is destiny only that can reinstate him.

{{ph/sub|Answer.}}

It is not right to say so. As the acquisition of every object presupposes at all events some exertion on the part of man, the application of proper means may be said to be the cause of gaining all our ends, and this application of proper means being thus necessary (even where a thing is destined to happen), it follows that a person who does nothing will enjoy no happiness.

{{ph/sub|Objection 4.}}

Those who are inclined to think that ''Artha'' is the chief object to be obtained argue thus. Pleasures should not be sought for, because they are obstacles to the practice of ''Dharma'' and ''Artha'', which are both superior to them, and are also disliked by meritorious persons. Pleasures also bring a man into distress, and into contact with low persons; they cause him to commit unrighteous deeds, and produce impurity in him; they make him regardless of the future, and&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/37</title>
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      <text bytes="2828" sha1="pvu00gz01o0e1apf5v12z843jhhab3t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|11}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;encourage carelessness and levity. And lastly, they cause him to be disbelieved by all, received by none, and despised by everybody, including himself. It is notorious, moreover, that many men who have given themselves up to pleasure alone, have been ruined along with their families and relations. Thus, ''King Dandakya'',&lt;ref&gt;''Dandakya'' is said to have abducted from the forest the daughter of a ''Brahman'', named ''Bhargava'', and being cursed by the ''Brahman'', was buried with his kingdom under a shower of dust. The place was called after his name the ''Dandaka'' forest, celebrated in the ''Ramayana'', but now unknown.&lt;/ref&gt; of the ''Bhoja'' dynasty, carried off a Brahman's daughter with evil intent, and was eventually ruined and lost his kingdom. Indra, too, having violated the chastity of ''Ahalya''&lt;ref&gt;''Ahalya'' was the wife of the sage ''Gautama''. ''Indra'' caused her to believe that he was ''Gautama'', and thus enjoyed her. He was cursed by ''Gautama'' and subsequently afflicted with a thousand ulcers on his body.&lt;/ref&gt; was made to suffer for it. In a like manner the mighty ''Kichaka'',&lt;ref&gt;''Kichaka'' was the brother-in-law of ''King Virata'', with whom the ''Pandavas'' had taken refuge for one year. ''Kichaka'' was killed by ''Bhima'', who assumed the disguise of ''Draupadi''. For this story the ''Mahabarata'' should be referred to.&lt;/ref&gt;  who tried to seduce ''Draupadi'', and ''Ravana'',&lt;ref&gt;The story of ''Ravana'' is told in the ''Ramayana'', which with the ''Mahabarata'' form the two great epic poems of the Hindoos; the latter was written by ''Vyasa'', and the former by ''Valmiki''.&lt;/ref&gt; who attempted to gain over ''Sita'', were punished for their crimes. These and many others fell by reason of their pleasures.

{{ph/sub|Answer 4.}}

This objection cannot be sustained, for pleasures, being as necessary for the existence and well being of the body as food, are consequently equally required. They are, moreover, the results of ''Dharma'' and ''Artha''. Pleasures are therefore, to be followed with moderation and caution. No one refrains from cooking food because there are beggars to ask for it, or from sowing seed because there are deer to destroy the corn when it is grown up.

Thus a man practicing ''Dharma'', ''Artha'', and ''Kama'' enjoys happiness both in this world and in the world to come. The good perform those actions in which there is no fear as to what is to result from them in the next world, and in which there is no danger to their welfare. Any action which conduces to the practice of ''Dharma'', ''Artha'', and ''Kama'' together, or of any two, or even one of them, should be performed, but an action which conduces to the practice of one of them at the expense of the remaining two should not be performed.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2290" sha1="5tn577yl41hr7z11pe21uvktm8pq7gw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER III.}}
{{ph/sub|On the Arts and Sciences to be Studied.}}

{{sc|Man}} should study the ''Kama Sutra'' and the arts and sciences subordinate thereto, in addition to the study of the arts and sciences contained in ''Dharma'' and ''Artha''. Even young maids should study this ''Kama Sutra'' along with its arts and sciences before marriage, and after it they should continue to do so with the consent of their husbands.

Here some learned men object, and say that females, not being allowed to study any science, should not study the ''Kama Sutra''.

But ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that this objection does not hold good, for women already know the practice of ''Kama Sutra'', and that practice is derived from the ''Kama Shastra'', or the science of ''Kama'' itself. Moreover, it is not only in this but in many other cases that though the practice of a science is known to all, only a few persons are acquainted with the rules and laws on which the science is based. Thus the ''Yadnikas'' or sacrificers, though ignorant of grammar, make use of appropriate words when addressing the different Deities, and do not know how these words are framed. Again, persons do the duties required of them on auspicious days, which are fixed by astrology, though they are not acquainted with the science of astrology. In a like manner riders of horses and elephants train these animals without knowing the science of training animals, but from practice only. And similarly the people of the most distant provinces obey the laws of the kingdom from practice and because there is a king over them, and without further reason.&lt;ref&gt;The author wishes to prove that a great many things are done by people from practise and custom, without their being acquainted with the reason of things, or the laws on which they are based, and this is perfectly true.&lt;/ref&gt; And from experience we find that some women, such as the daughters of princes and their ministers, and public women, are actually versed in the ''Kama Shastra''.

A female, therefore, should learn the ''Kama Shastra'', or at least a part of it, by studying its practice from some confidential friend. She should study alone in private the sixty-four practices that form a part of the ''Kama Shastra''. Her&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}
{{c|12}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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# Solution of riddles, enigmas, covert speeches, verbal puzzles, and enigmatical questions.
# A game, which consisted in repeating verses, and as one person finished, another person had to commence at once, repeating another verse, beginning with the same letter with which the last speaker’s verse ended, whoever failed to repeat, was considered to have lost and to be subject to pay a forfeit or stake of some kind.
# The art of mimicry or imitation.
# Reading, including chanting and intoning.
# Study of sentences difficult to pronounce. It is played as a game chiefly by women and children, and consists of a difficult sentence being given, and when repeated quickly, the words are often transposed or badly pronounced.
# Practice with sword, single stick, quarter staff, and bow and arrow.
# Drawing inferences, reasoning or infering.
# Carpentry, or the work of a carpenter.
# Architecture, or the art of building.
# Knowledge about gold and silver coins, and jewels and gems.
# Chemistry and mineralogy.
# Coloring jewels, gems and beads.
# Knowledge of mines and quarries.
# Gardening; knowledge of treating the diseases of trees and plants, of nourishing them, and determining their ages.
# Art of cock fighting, quail fighting, and ram fighting.
# Art of teaching parrots and starlings to speak.
# Art of applying perfumed ointments to the body, and of dressing the hair with unguents and perfumes and braiding it.
# The art of understanding writing in cypher and the writing of words in a peculiar way.
# The art of speaking by changing the forms of words. It is of various kinds. Some speak by changing the beginning and end of words, others by adding unnecessary letters between every syllable of a word, and so on.
# Knowledge of languages and of the vernacular dialects.
# Art of making flower carriages.
# Art of framing mystical diagrams, of addressing spells and charms, and binding armlets.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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# Composing poems.
# Knowledge of dictionaries and vocabularies.
# Knowledge of ways of changing and disguising the appearance of persons.
# Knowledge of the art of changing the appearance of things, such as making cotton to appear as silk, coarse and common things to appear as fine and good.
# Various ways of gambling.
# Art of obtaining possession of the property of others by means of ''muntras'' or incantations.
# Skill in youthful sports.
# Knowledge of the rules of society, and of how to pay respects and compliments to others.
# Knowledge of the art of war, of arms, armies, etc.
# Knowledge of gymnastics.
# Art of knowing the character of a man from his features.
# Knowledge of scanning or constructing verses.
# Arithmetical recreations.
# Making artificial flowers.
# Making figures and images in clay.

A public woman, endowed with a good disposition, beauty, and other winning qualities, and also versed in the above arts, obtains the name of a ''Ganika'', or public woman of high quality, and receives a seat of honor in an assemblage of men. She is, moreover, always respected by the king, and praised by learned men, and her favor sought for by all, she becomes an object of universal regard. The daughter of a king, too, as well as the daughter of a minister, being learned in the above arts can make their husbands favorable to them, even though these may have thousands of other wives besides themselves. And in the same manner, if a wife becomes separated from her husband, and falls into distress, she can support herself easily, even in a foreign country, by means&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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The following are the arts to be studied, together with the ''Kama Sutra'':—

# Singing.
# Playing on musical instruments.
# Dancing.
# Union of dancing, singing, and playing instrumental music.
# Writing and drawing.
# Tattooing.
# Arraying and adorning an idol with rice and flowers.
# Spreading and arranging beds or couches of flowers, or flowers upon the ground.
# Coloring the teeth, garments, hair, nails and bodies, i.e., staining, dyeing, coloring and painting the same.
# Fixing stained glass into a floor.
# The art of making beds, and spreading out carpets and cushions for reclining.
# Playing on musical glasses filled with water.
# Storing and accumulating water in aqueducts, cisterns, and reservoirs.
# Picture making, trimming, and decorating.
# Stringing of rosaries, necklaces, garlands, and wreaths.
# Binding of turbans and chaplets, and making crests and top-knots of flowers.
# Scenic representations. Stage playing.
# Art of making ear ornaments.
# Art of preparing perfumes and odors.
# Proper disposition of jewels and decorations, and adornment in dress.
# Magic or sorcery.
# Quickness of hand or manual skill.
# Culinary art, i.e., cooking and cookery.
# Making lemonades, sherbets, acidulated drinks, and spirituous extracts with proper flavor and color.
# Tailor's work and sewing.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2519" sha1="fqmhxk8iajuu7m3a01eoyin7yuwj67i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|18|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Now the householder, having got up in the morning and performed his necessary duties,&lt;ref&gt;The calls of nature always performed by the Hindoos the first thing in the morning.&lt;/ref&gt; should wash his teeth, apply a limited quantity of ointments and perfumes to his body, put some ornaments on his person and collyrium on his eyelids and below his eyes, color his lips with alacktaka,&lt;ref&gt;A colour made from lac.&lt;/ref&gt; and look at himself in the glass. Having then eaten betel leaves, with other things that give fragrance to the mouth, he should perform his usual business. He should bathe daily, anoint his body with oil every other day, apply a lathering&lt;ref&gt;This would act instead of soap, which was not introduced until the rule of the Mahomedans.&lt;/ref&gt; substance to his body every three days, get his head (including face) shaved every four days, and the other parts of his body every five or ten days.&lt;ref&gt;Ten days are allowed when the hair is taken out with a pair of pincers.&lt;/ref&gt; All these things should be done without fail, and the sweat of the armpits should also be removed. Meals should be taken in the forenoon, in the afternoon, and again at night, according to ''Charayana''. After breakfast, parrots and other birds should be taught to speak, and the fighting of cocks, quails, and rams should follow. A limited time should be devoted to diversion with ''Pithamardas'', ''Vitas'', and ''Vidushakas'',&lt;ref&gt;These are characters generally introduced in the Hindoo drama: their characteristics will be explained further on.&lt;/ref&gt; and then should be taken the midday sleep.&lt;ref&gt;Noonday sleep is only allowed in summer, when the nights are short.&lt;/ref&gt; After this the householder, having put on his clothes and ornaments, should, during the afternoon, converse with his friends. In the evening there should be singing, and after that the householder, along with his friend, should await in his room, previously decorated and perfumed, the arrival of the woman that may be attached to him, or he may send a female messenger for her, or go to her himself. After her arrival at his house, he and his friend should welcome her, and entertain her with a loving and agreeable conversation. Thus end the duties of the day.

The following are the things to be done occasionally as diversions or amusements.

# Holding festivals&lt;ref&gt;These are very common in all parts of India.&lt;/ref&gt; in honor of different Deities.
# Social gatherings of both sexes.
# Drinking parties.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{ph/sub|The Life of a Citizen&lt;ref&gt;This term would appear to apply generally to an inhabitant of Hindoostan. It is not meant only for a dweller in a city, like the Latin ''Urbanus'' as opposed to ''Rusticus''.&lt;/ref&gt;}}

{{sc|Having}} thus acquired learning, a man, with the wealth that he may have gained by gift, conquest, purchase, deposit,&lt;ref&gt;Gift is peculiar to a ''Brahman'', conquest to a ''Kshatrya'', while purchase, deposit, and other means of acquiring wealth belong to the ''Vaishya''.&lt;/ref&gt; or inheritance from his ancestors, should become a householder, and pass the life of a citizen. He should take a house in a city, or large village, or in the vicinity of good men, or in a place which is the resort of many persons. This abode should be situated near some water, and divided into different compartments for different purposes. It should be surrounded by a garden, and also contain two rooms, an outer and an inner one. The inner room should be occupied by the females, while the outer room, balmy with rich perfumes, should contain a bed, soft, agreeable to the sight, covered with a clean white cloth, low in the middle part, having garlands and bunches of flowers&lt;ref&gt;Natural garden flowers.&lt;/ref&gt; upon it, and a canopy above it, and two pillows, one at the top, another at the bottom. There should be also a sort of couch besides, and at the head of this a sort of stool, on which should be placed the fragrant ointments for the night, as well as flowers, pots containing collyrium and other fragrant substances, things used for perfuming the mouth, and the bark of the common citron tree. Near the couch, on the ground, there should be a pot for spitting, a box containing ornaments, and also a lute hanging from a peg made of the tooth of an elephant, a board for drawing, a pot containing perfume, some books, and some garlands of the yellow amaranth flowers. Not far from the couch, and on the ground, there should be a round seat, a toy cart, and a board for playing with dice; outside the outer room there should be cages of birds,&lt;ref&gt;Such as quails, partridges, parrots, starlings, etc.&lt;/ref&gt; and a separate place for spinning, carving and such like {{SIC|diversons|diversions}}. In the garden there should be a whirling swing and a common swing, as also a bower of creepers covered with flowers, in which a raised parterre should be made for sitting.
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      <text bytes="755" sha1="mtbs531jldefocinbeujfxidzqpv7s0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|22|''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;age,&lt;ref&gt;This means, it is presumed, that the citizen should be acquainted with several languages. The middle part of this paragraph might apply to the ''Nihilists'' and ''[[w:Fenian|Fenians]]'' of the day, or to secret societies. It was perhaps a reference to the ''[[w:Thugee|Thugs]]''.&lt;/ref&gt; nor wholly in the dialects of the country, on various topics in society, obtains great respect. The wise should not resort to a society disliked by the public, governed by no rules, and intent on the destruction of others. But a learned man living in a society which acts according to the wishes of the people, and which has pleasure for its only object is highly respected in this world.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/46</title>
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      <text bytes="2053" sha1="aeiw8ovs64bnqwf010na5ekufhlnbw7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|20|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the most beautiful, who may like the same things that the men like, and who may have power to attract the minds of others, are here done homage to.

{{ph/sub|Drinking Parties}}

Men and women should drink in one another’s houses. And here the men should cause the public women to drink, and should then drink themselves, liquors such as the ''Madhu'', ''Aireya'', ''Sara'', and ''Asawa'', which are of bitter and sour taste; also drinks concocted from the barks of various trees, wild fruits, and leaves.

{{ph/sub|Going to Gardens or Picnics}}

In the forenoon, men, having dressed themselves, should go to gardens on horseback, accompanied by public women and followed by servants. And having done there all the duties of the day, and passed the time in various agreeable diversions, such as the fighting of quails, cocks, and rams, and other spectacles, they should return home in the afternoon in the same manner, bringing with them bunches of flowers, etc.

The same also applies to bathing in the summer in water from which wicked or dangerous animals have previously been taken out, and which has been built in on all sides.

{{ph/sub|Other Social Diversions}}

Spending nights playing with dice. Going out on moon-light nights. Keeping the festive day in honor of spring. Plucking the sprouts and fruits of the mangoe trees. Eating the fibres of lotuses. Eating the tender ears of corn. Picnicing in the forests when the trees get their new foliage. The ''Udakakshvedika'' or sporting in the water. Decorating each other with the flowers of some trees. Pelting each other with the flowers of the Kadamba tree, and many other sports which may either be known to the whole country, or may be peculiar to particular parts of it. These and similar other amusements should always be carried on by citizens.

The above amusements should be followed by a person who diverts himself alone in company with a courtezan, as well as by a courtezan who can do the same in company with her maid servants or with citizens.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/45</title>
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      <text bytes="2882" sha1="fdlj7bzpb4b9bkw2mn3zrs9rb6nwn6a" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|19}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;# &lt;li value=&quot;4&quot;&gt;Picnics.&lt;/li&gt;
# Other social diversions.

{{ph/sub|Festivals}}

On some particular auspicious day, an assembly of citizens should be convened in the temple of ''Saraswati''.&lt;ref&gt;In the “''Astatic Miscellany'',” and in ''Sir W. Jones’s'' works, will be found a spirited hymn addressed to this goddess, who is adored as the patroness of the fine arts, especially of music and rhetoric, as the inventress of the Sanscrit language, etc., etc. She is the goddess of harmony, eloquence, and language. and is somewhat analogous to Minerva. For further information about her, see ''Edward Moor’s'' “''Hindoo Pantheon''.”&lt;/ref&gt; There the skill of singers, and of others who may have come recently to the town, should be tested, and on the following day they should always be given some rewards. After that they may either be retained or dismissed, according as their performances are liked or not by the assembly. The members of the assembly should act in concert both in times of distress as well as in times of posterity, and it is also the duty of these citizens to show hospitality to strangers who may have come to the assembly. What is said above should be understood to apply to all the other festivals which may be held in honor of the different Deities according to the present rules.

{{ph/sub|Social Gatherings}}
When men of the same age, disposition and talents, fond of the same diversions, and with the same degree of education, sit together in company with public women,&lt;ref&gt;The public women, or courtezans (''Vesya''), of the early Hindoos have often been compared with the ''[[w:Hetaira|Hetaerae]]'' of the Greeks. The subject is dealt with at some length in ''H. H. Wilson’s'' “''Select Specimens of the Theatre of the Hindoos''.” in two volumes, Trubner &amp; Co., 1871. It may be fairly considered that the courtezan was one of the elements, and an important element too, of early Hindoo society, and that her education and intellect were both superior to that of the women of the household. Wilson says, “By the ''Vesya'' or courtezan, however, we are not to understand a female who has disregarded the obligation of law or the precepts of virtue, but a character reared by a state of manners unfriendly to the admission of wedded females into society, and opening it only at the expense or reputation to women who were trained for association with men by personal and mental acquirements to which the matron was a stranger.”&lt;/ref&gt; or in an assembly of citizens, or at the abode of one among themselves, and engage in agreeable discourse with each other, such is called a sitting in company or a social gathering. The subjects of discourse are to be the completion of verses half composed by others, and the testing the knowledge of one another in the various arts. The woman who may be&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/49</title>
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      <text bytes="2345" sha1="j2jnncwza3fpfev9nuck6ch2fbqxziu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER V.}}
{{ph/sub|About the Kinds of Women Resorted to by the Citizens, and of Friends and Messengers.}}

{{sc|When}} ''Kama'' is practiced by men of the four castes according to the rules of the Holy Writ (i.e., by lawful marriage) with virgins of their own caste, it then becomes a means of acquiring lawful progeny and good fame, and it is not also opposed to the customs of the world. On the contrary the practice of ''Kama'' with women of the higher castes, and with those previously enjoyed by others, even though they be of the same caste, is prohibited. But the practice of ''Kama'' with women of the lower castes, with women excommunicated from their own caste, with public women, and with women twice married,&lt;ref&gt;This term does not apply to a widow, but to a woman who has probably left her husband, and is living with some other person as a married woman, ''maritalement'', as they say in France.&lt;/ref&gt; is neither enjoined nor prohibited. The object of practicing ''Kama'' with such women is pleasure only.

''Nayikas'',&lt;ref&gt;Any woman fit to be enjoyed without sin. The object of the enjoyment of women is twofold, viz., pleasure and progeny. Any woman who can be enjoyed without sin for the purpose of accomplishing either the one or the other of these two objects is a ''Nayika''. The fourth kind of ''Nayika'' which ''Vatsya'' admits further on is neither enjoyed for pleasure or for progeny, but merely for accomplishing some special purpose in hand. The word ''Nayika'' is retained as a technical term throughout.&lt;/ref&gt;  therefore, are of three kinds, viz., maids, women twice married, and public women. ''Gonikaputra'' has expressed an opinion that there is a fourth kind of ''Nayika'', viz., a woman who is resorted to on some special occasion even though she be previously married to another. These special occasions are when a man thinks thus:–

:(''a'') This woman is self-willed, and has been previously enjoyed by many others besides myself. I may, therefore, safely resort to her as to a public woman though she belongs to a higher caste than mine, and in so doing I shall not be violating the ordinances of ''Dharma''.
Or thus:–
:(''b'') This is a twice-married woman and has been enjoyed by others before me, there is, therefore, no objection to my resorting to her.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}
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      <text bytes="2345" sha1="s4cflq5tjlw0815ygqpaxs6v9sp4x6s" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER V.}}
{{ph/sub|About the Kinds of Women Resorted to by the Citizens, and of Friends and Messengers.}}

{{sc|When}} ''Kama'' is practiced by men of the four castes according to the rules of the Holy Writ (i.e., by lawful marriage) with virgins of their own caste, it then becomes a means of acquiring lawful progeny and good fame, and it is not also opposed to the customs of the world. On the contrary the practice of ''Kama'' with women of the higher castes, and with those previously enjoyed by others, even though they be of the same caste, is prohibited. But the practice of ''Kama'' with women of the lower castes, with women excommunicated from their own caste, with public women, and with women twice married,&lt;ref&gt;This term does not apply to a widow, but to a woman who has probably left her husband, and is living with some other person as a married woman, ''maritalement'', as they say in France.&lt;/ref&gt; is neither enjoined nor prohibited. The object of practicing ''Kama'' with such women is pleasure only.

''Nayikas'',&lt;ref&gt;Any woman fit to be enjoyed without sin. The object of the enjoyment of women is twofold, viz., pleasure and progeny. Any woman who can be enjoyed without sin for the purpose of accomplishing either the one or the other of these two objects is a ''Nayika''. The fourth kind of ''Nayika'' which ''Vatsya'' admits further on is neither enjoyed for pleasure or for progeny, but merely for accomplishing some special purpose in hand. The word ''Nayika'' is retained as a technical term throughout.&lt;/ref&gt;  therefore, are of three kinds, viz., maids, women twice married, and public women. ''Gonikaputra'' has expressed an opinion that there is a fourth kind of ''Nayika'', viz., a woman who is resorted to on some special occasion even though she be previously married to another. These special occasions are when a man thinks thus:—

:(''a'') This woman is self-willed, and has been previously enjoyed by many others besides myself. I may, therefore, safely resort to her as to a public woman though she belongs to a higher caste than mine, and in so doing I shall not be violating the ordinances of ''Dharma''.
Or thus:—
:(''b'') This is a twice-married woman and has been enjoyed by others before me, there is, therefore, no objection to my resorting to her.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/50</title>
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      <text bytes="1693" sha1="8asg08kb8ehi5hvx46ahr2k22q3gfza" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|24|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Or thus:—
:(''c'') This woman has gained the heart of her great and powerful husband, and exercises a mastery over him, who is a friend of my enemy; if, therefore, she becomes united with me she will cause her husband to abandon my enemy.
Or thus:—
:(''d'') This woman will turn the mind of her husband, who is very powerful, in my favor, he being at present disaffected towards me, and intent on doing me some harm.
Or thus:—
:(''e'') By making this woman my friend I shall gain the object of some friend of mine, or shall be able to effect the ruin of some enemy, or shall accomplish some other difficult purpose.
Or thus:—
:(''f'') By being united with this woman, I shall kill her husband, and so obtain his vast riches which I covet.
Or thus:—
:(''g'') The union of this woman with me is not attended with any danger, and will bring me wealth, of which, on account of my poverty and inability to support myself, I am very much in need. I shall, therefore obtain her vast riches in this way without any difficulty.
Or thus:—
:(''h'') This woman loves me ardently, and knows all my weak points, if therefore, I am unwilling to be united with her, she will make my faults public, and thus tarnish my character and reputation. Or she will bring some gross accusation against me, of which it may be hard to clear myself, and I shall be ruined. Or perhaps she will detach from me her husband who is powerful, and yet under her control, and will unite him to my enemy, or will herself join the latter.
Or thus:—
:(''i'') The husband of this woman has violated the chastity of my wives, I shall therefore return that injury by seducing his wives.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/51</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:32:31Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1949" sha1="j2gwah4dh8opm6fr6nttgwrzh5ix7ba" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|25}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Or thus:—
:(''j'') By the help of this woman I shall kill an enemy of the king, who has taken shelter with her, and whom I am ordered by the king to destroy.
Or thus:—
:(''k'') The woman whom I love is under the control of this woman. I shall, through the influence of the latter, be able to get at the former.
Or thus:—
:(''l'') This woman will bring to me a maid, who possesses wealth and beauty, but who is hard to get at, and under the control of another.
Or lastly thus:—
:(''m'') My enemy is a friend of this woman’s husband, I shall therefore cause her join him, and will thus create an enmity between her husband and him.

For these and similar other reasons the wives of other men may be resorted to, but it must be distinctly understood that is only allowed for special reasons, and not for mere carnal desire.

''Charayana'' thinks that under these circumstances there is also a fifth kind of of ''Nayika'', viz., a woman who is kept by a minister, or who repairs to him occasionally; or a widow who accomplishes the purpose of a man with the person to whom she resorts.

''Suvarnanabha'' adds that a woman who passes the life of an ascetic and in the condition of a widow may be considered as a sixth kind of ''Nayika''.

''Ghotakamukha'' says that the daughter of a public woman, and a female servant, who are still virgins, form a seventh kind of ''Nayika''.

''Gonardiya'' puts forth his doctrine that any woman born of good family, after she has come of age, is an eighth kind of ''Nayika''.

But these four latter kinds of ''Nayikas'' do not differ much from the first four kinds of them, as there is no separate object in resorting to them. Therefore, ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that there are only four kinds of ''Nayikas'', i. e., the maid, the twice-married woman, the public woman, and the woman resorted to for a special purpose.

The following women are not to be enjoyed:—
:A leper.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <parentid>15132705</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:35:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="1982" sha1="1ui4cgdr8lv0n542gmi06uj9x8xbewz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|25}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Or thus:—
:(''j'') By the help of this woman I shall kill an enemy of the king, who has taken shelter with her, and whom I am ordered by the king to destroy.
Or thus:—
:(''k'') The woman whom I love is under the control of this woman. I shall, through the influence of the latter, be able to get at the former.
Or thus:—
:(''l'') This woman will bring to me a maid, who possesses wealth and beauty, but who is hard to get at, and under the control of another.
Or lastly thus:—
:(''m'') My enemy is a friend of this woman’s husband, I shall therefore cause her join him, and will thus create an enmity between her husband and him.

For these and similar other reasons the wives of other men may be resorted to, but it must be distinctly understood that is only allowed for special reasons, and not for mere carnal desire.

''Charayana'' thinks that under these circumstances there is also a fifth kind of of ''Nayika'', viz., a woman who is kept by a minister, or who repairs to him occasionally; or a widow who accomplishes the purpose of a man with the person to whom she resorts.

''Suvarnanabha'' adds that a woman who passes the life of an ascetic and in the condition of a widow may be considered as a sixth kind of ''Nayika''.

''Ghotakamukha'' says that the daughter of a public woman, and a female servant, who are still virgins, form a seventh kind of ''Nayika''.

''Gonardiya'' puts forth his doctrine that any woman born of good family, after she has come of age, is an eighth kind of ''Nayika''.

But these four latter kinds of ''Nayikas'' do not differ much from the first four kinds of them, as there is no separate object in resorting to them. Therefore, ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that there are only four kinds of ''Nayikas'', i. e., the maid, the twice-married woman, the public woman, and the woman resorted to for a special purpose.

The following women are not to be enjoyed:—

{{plainlist/s}}
* A leper.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{hi/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;:A lunatic.
:A woman turned out of caste.
:A woman who reveals secrets.
:A woman who publicly expresses a desire for sexual intercourse.
:A woman who is extremely white.
:A woman who is extremely black.
:A bad-smelling woman.
:A woman who is a near relation.
:A woman who is a female friend.
:A woman who leads the life of an ascetic.
:And, lastly the wife of a relation, of a friend, of a learned ''Brahman'', and of the king.
{{hi/e}}

The followers of ''Babhravya'' say that any woman who has been enjoyed by five men is a fit and proper person to be enjoyed. But ''Gonikaputra'' is of opinion that even when this is the case, the wives of a relation, of a learned ''Brahman'' and of a king should be excepted.

The following are the kind of friends:—

{{hi|
:One who has played with you in the dust, i. e., in childhood.
:One who is bound by an obligation.
:One who is of the same disposition and fond of the same things.
:One who is a fellow student.
:One who is acquainted with your secrets and faults, and whose faults and secrets are also known to you.
:One who is a child of your nurse.
:One who is brought up with you.
:One who is an hereditary friend.
}}

These friends should possess the following qualities:—

{{hi|
:They should tell the truth.
:They should not be changed by time.
:They should be favorable to your designs.
:They should be firm.
:They should be free from covetousness.
:They should not be {{SIC|ceapable|capable}} of being gained over by others.
:They should not reveal your secrets.
}}

''Charayana'' says that citizens form friendships with washer-men, barbers, cowherds, florists, druggists, betal-leaf sellers, tavern keepers, beggars, ''Pithamardas'', ''Vitas'', and ''Vidushekas'', as also with the wives of all these people. 
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{{plainlist/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* A lunatic.
* A woman turned out of caste.
* A woman who reveals secrets.
* A woman who publicly expresses a desire for sexual intercourse.
* A woman who is extremely white.
* A woman who is extremely black.
* A bad-smelling woman.
* A woman who is a near relation.
* A woman who is a female friend.
* A woman who leads the life of an ascetic.
* And, lastly the wife of a relation, of a friend, of a learned ''Brahman'', and of the king.
{{plainlist/e}}

The followers of ''Babhravya'' say that any woman who has been enjoyed by five men is a fit and proper person to be enjoyed. But ''Gonikaputra'' is of opinion that even when this is the case, the wives of a relation, of a learned ''Brahman'' and of a king should be excepted.

The following are the kind of friends:—

{{plainlist|
* One who has played with you in the dust, i. e., in childhood.
* One who is bound by an obligation.
* One who is of the same disposition and fond of the same things.
* One who is a fellow student.
* One who is acquainted with your secrets and faults, and whose faults and secrets are also known to you.
* One who is a child of your nurse.
* One who is brought up with you.
* One who is an hereditary friend.
}}

These friends should possess the following qualities:—

{{plainlist|
* They should tell the truth.
* They should not be changed by time.
* They should be favorable to your designs.
* They should be firm.
* They should be free from covetousness.
* They should not be {{SIC|ceapable|capable}} of being gained over by others.
* They should not reveal your secrets.
}}

''Charayana'' says that citizens form friendships with washer-men, barbers, cowherds, florists, druggists, betal-leaf sellers, tavern keepers, beggars, ''Pithamardas'', ''Vitas'', and ''Vidushekas'', as also with the wives of all these people. 
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/53</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2049889</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132718</id>
      <parentid>8986992</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:38:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="808" sha1="4rygcdli8mwzmcelijp0ea0fn17xu02" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|27}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;A messenger should possess the following qualities:—

{{plainlist|
* Skilfulness.
* Boldness.
* Knowledge of the intention of men by their outward signs.
* Absence of confusion, i. e., no shyness.
* Knowledge of the exact meaning of what others do or say.
* Good manners.
* Knowledge of appropriate times and places for doing different things.
* Ingenuity in business.
* Quick comprehension.
* Quick application of remedies, i. e., quick and ready resources.
}}

And this part ends with a verse:—

The man who is ingenious and wise, who is accompanied by a friend, and who knows the intentions of others, as also the proper time and place for doing everything, can gain over, very easily, even a woman who is very hard to be obtained.

{{dhr|4}}

{{c|{{fine|END OF PART I}}.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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of

{{sc|Sexual Union}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132916</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:59:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
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of

{{sc|Sexual Union}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132918</id>
      <parentid>15132916</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:59:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <text bytes="54" sha1="ionsxd04kpt9gdwyqhs9s7d4ripth3k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cyarenkatnikh&quot; /&gt;{{dhr|12}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|PART II&lt;br&gt;
of&lt;br&gt;
{{sc|Sexual Union}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ionsxd04kpt9gdwyqhs9s7d4ripth3k</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/59</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15132671</id>
      <parentid>10965420</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:13:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <text bytes="1407" sha1="oum917ch0nuk2981t5vn29yuwl59yc0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Anton.t.gregersen&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}
{{c|CHAPTER I.}}

{{block center|''Kinds of Sexual Union According to ''
:''(a) Dimensions.''
:''(b) Force of Desire or Passion.''
:''(c) Time.''}}

{{ph|Kinds of Union.}}

{{sc|Man}} is divided into three classes, viz., the ''hare-man'', the ''bull-man'', and the ''horse-man'', according to the size of his lingam.

Woman also, according to the depth of her yoni, is either a ''female-deer'', a ''mare'', or a ''female-elephant''.

There are thus three unions between persons of corresponding dimensions, and there are six unequal unions, when the dimensions do not correspond, or nine in all, as the following table shows:

{| class=&quot;column-table&quot;
|-
!colspan=2|EQUAL.
!colspan=2|UNEQUAL.
|-
! Men. !! Women.
! Men. !! Women.
|-
|Hare.
|Deer.
|Hare.
|Mare.
|-
|Bull.
|Mare.
|Hare.
|Elephant.
|-
|Horse.
|Elephant.
|Bull.
|Deer.
|-
|
|
|Bull.
|Elephant.
|-
|
|
|Horse.
|Deer.
|-
|
|
|Horse.
|Mare.
|}

In these unequal unions, when the male exceeds the female in point of size, his union with a woman who is immediately next to him in size is called ''high-union'', and is of two kinds; while his union with the woman most remote from him in size is called the ''highest-union'', and is of one kind only. On the other hand, when the female exceeds the male in point of size, her union with a man immediately next to her in size is called ''low-union'', and is of two kinds; while her union&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|31}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>oum917ch0nuk2981t5vn29yuwl59yc0</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132673</id>
      <parentid>15132671</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:14:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1411" sha1="093754cpnz50fbf9xa1dqjp0rofpmyn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Anton.t.gregersen&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}
{{c|CHAPTER I.}}

{{block center|''Kinds of Sexual Union According to ''
:''(a) Dimensions.''
:''(b) Force of Desire or Passion.''
:''(c) Time.''}}

{{ph/sub|Kinds of Union.}}

{{sc|Man}} is divided into three classes, viz., the ''hare-man'', the ''bull-man'', and the ''horse-man'', according to the size of his lingam.

Woman also, according to the depth of her yoni, is either a ''female-deer'', a ''mare'', or a ''female-elephant''.

There are thus three unions between persons of corresponding dimensions, and there are six unequal unions, when the dimensions do not correspond, or nine in all, as the following table shows:

{| class=&quot;column-table&quot;
|-
!colspan=2|EQUAL.
!colspan=2|UNEQUAL.
|-
! Men. !! Women.
! Men. !! Women.
|-
|Hare.
|Deer.
|Hare.
|Mare.
|-
|Bull.
|Mare.
|Hare.
|Elephant.
|-
|Horse.
|Elephant.
|Bull.
|Deer.
|-
|
|
|Bull.
|Elephant.
|-
|
|
|Horse.
|Deer.
|-
|
|
|Horse.
|Mare.
|}

In these unequal unions, when the male exceeds the female in point of size, his union with a woman who is immediately next to him in size is called ''high-union'', and is of two kinds; while his union with the woman most remote from him in size is called the ''highest-union'', and is of one kind only. On the other hand, when the female exceeds the male in point of size, her union with a man immediately next to her in size is called ''low-union'', and is of two kinds; while her union&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|31}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>093754cpnz50fbf9xa1dqjp0rofpmyn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132720</id>
      <parentid>15132673</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:39:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132720</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1404" sha1="ly3r4ui8im56fdrxz6lpcgops0juden" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Anton.t.gregersen&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER I.}}

{{block center|''Kinds of Sexual Union According to ''
:''(a) Dimensions.''
:''(b) Force of Desire or Passion.''
:''(c) Time.''}}

{{ph/sub|Kinds of Union.}}

{{sc|Man}} is divided into three classes, viz., the ''hare-man'', the ''bull-man'', and the ''horse-man'', according to the size of his lingam.

Woman also, according to the depth of her yoni, is either a ''female-deer'', a ''mare'', or a ''female-elephant''.

There are thus three unions between persons of corresponding dimensions, and there are six unequal unions, when the dimensions do not correspond, or nine in all, as the following table shows:

{| class=&quot;column-table&quot;
|-
!colspan=2|EQUAL.
!colspan=2|UNEQUAL.
|-
! Men. !! Women.
! Men. !! Women.
|-
|Hare.
|Deer.
|Hare.
|Mare.
|-
|Bull.
|Mare.
|Hare.
|Elephant.
|-
|Horse.
|Elephant.
|Bull.
|Deer.
|-
|
|
|Bull.
|Elephant.
|-
|
|
|Horse.
|Deer.
|-
|
|
|Horse.
|Mare.
|}

In these unequal unions, when the male exceeds the female in point of size, his union with a woman who is immediately next to him in size is called ''high-union'', and is of two kinds; while his union with the woman most remote from him in size is called the ''highest-union'', and is of one kind only. On the other hand, when the female exceeds the male in point of size, her union with a man immediately next to her in size is called ''low-union'', and is of two kinds; while her union&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|31}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ly3r4ui8im56fdrxz6lpcgops0juden</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/62</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2049897</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132725</id>
      <parentid>12319012</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:42:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132725</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2942" sha1="ghktqbz9ai9okdaqhj1gusbdqlbrtkm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Sharfshak&quot; /&gt;{{rh|34|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tinually, and after the semen of both has all fallen away they wish for the discontinuance of coition.”&lt;ref&gt;The strength of passion with women varies a great deal, some being easily satisfied, and others eager and willing to go on for a long time. To satisfy these last thoroughly a man must have recourse to art. It is certain that a fluid flows from the woman in larger or smaller quantities, but her satisfaction is not complete until she has experienced the &quot;''spasme genesique'',&quot; as described in a French work recently published and called ''Breviare de l'Amour Experimental''  par le ''Dr. Jules Guyot''.&lt;/ref&gt;

Lastly, ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that the semen of the female, falls in the same way as that of the male.

Now some one may ask here: If men and women are beings of the same kind, and are engaged in bringing about the same result, why should they have different works to do.

''Vatsya'' says that this is so, because the ways of working as well as the consciousness of pleasure in men and women are different. The difference in the ways of working, by which men are the actors, and women are the persons acted upon, is owing to the nature of the male and the female, otherwise the actor would be sometimes the person acted upon, and vice versa. And from this difference in the ways of working follows the difference in the consciousness of pleasure, for a man thinks, “this woman is united with me,” and a woman thinks, “I am united with this man.”

It may be said that if the ways of working in men and women are different, why should not there be a difference, even in the pleasure they feel, and which is the result of those ways.

But this objection is groundless, for the person acting and the person acted upon being of different kinds, there is a reason for the difference in their ways of working; but there is no reason for any difference in the pleasure they feel, because they both naturally derive pleasure from the act they perform.&lt;ref&gt;This is a long dissertation very common among Sanscrit authors, both when writing and talking socially. They start certain propositions, and then argue for and against them. What it is presumed the author means, is, that though both men and women derive pleasure from the act of coition, the way it is produced is brought about by different means, each individual performing his own work in the matter irrespective of the other, and each deriving individually their own consciousness of pleasure from the act they perform. There is a difference in the work that each does, and a difference in the consciousness of pleasure that each has, but no difference in the pleasure they feel, for each feels that pleasure to a greater or lesser degree.&lt;/ref&gt;

On this again some may say that when different persons are engaged in doing the same work, we find that they accomplish the same end or purpose; while, on the contrary,&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ghktqbz9ai9okdaqhj1gusbdqlbrtkm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132727</id>
      <parentid>15132725</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:42:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132727</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2951" sha1="deqju9vlstwixflbpnyruowtdv6krn8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Sharfshak&quot; /&gt;{{rh|34|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tinually, and after the semen of both has all fallen away they wish for the discontinuance of coition.”&lt;ref&gt;The strength of passion with women varies a great deal, some being easily satisfied, and others eager and willing to go on for a long time. To satisfy these last thoroughly a man must have recourse to art. It is certain that a fluid flows from the woman in larger or smaller quantities, but her satisfaction is not complete until she has experienced the &quot;''spasme genesique'',&quot; as described in a French work recently published and called ''Breviare de l'Amour Experimental''  par le ''Dr. Jules Guyot''.&lt;/ref&gt;

Lastly, ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that the semen of the female, falls in the same way as that of the male.

Now some one may ask here: If men and women are beings of the same kind, and are engaged in bringing about the same result, why should they have different works to do.

''Vatsya'' says that this is so, because the ways of working as well as the consciousness of pleasure in men and women are different. The difference in the ways of working, by which men are the actors, and women are the persons acted upon, is owing to the nature of the male and the female, otherwise the actor would be sometimes the person acted upon, and vice versa. And from this difference in the ways of working follows the difference in the consciousness of pleasure, for a man thinks, “this woman is united with me,” and a woman thinks, “I am united with this man.”

It may be said that if the ways of working in men and women are different, why should not there be a difference, even in the pleasure they feel, and which is the result of those ways.

But this objection is groundless, for the person acting and the person acted upon being of different kinds, there is a reason for the difference in their ways of working; but there is no reason for any difference in the pleasure they feel, because they both naturally derive pleasure from the act they perform.&lt;ref&gt;This is a long dissertation very common among Sanscrit authors, both when writing and talking socially. They start certain propositions, and then argue for and against them. What it is presumed the author means, is, that though both men and women derive pleasure from the act of coition, the way it is produced is brought about by different means, each individual performing his own work in the matter irrespective of the other, and each deriving individually their own consciousness of pleasure from the act they perform. There is a difference in the work that each does, and a difference in the consciousness of pleasure that each has, but no difference in the pleasure they feel, for each feels that pleasure to a greater or lesser degree.&lt;/ref&gt;

On this again some may say that when different persons are engaged in doing the same work, we find that they accomplish the same end or purpose; while, on the contrary,&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>deqju9vlstwixflbpnyruowtdv6krn8</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/60</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2049900</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132723</id>
      <parentid>12442942</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:40:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1989" sha1="35uxolsquo7af0tinkcdih9lru1cwv3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Anton.t.gregersen&quot; /&gt;{{rh|32|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;with a man most remote from her in size is called the ''lowest-union'', and is of one kind only.

In other words, the ''horse'' and ''mare'', the ''bull'' and ''deer'', form the ''high-union'', while the ''horse'' and ''deer'' form the ''highest-union''. On the female side, the ''elephant'' and ''bull'', the ''mare'' and ''hare'', form ''low-unions'', while the ''elephant'' and the ''hare'' make the ''lowest-unions''.

There are then, nine kinds of union according to dimensions. {{SIC|Amongest}} all these, ''equal-unions'' are the best, those of a superlative degree, i.e., the highest and lowest, are the worst, and the rest are middling, and with them the high&lt;ref&gt;''High-unions'' are said to be better than ''low-ones'', for in the former it is possible for the male to satisfy his own passion without injuring the female, while in the latter it is difficult for the female to be satisfied by any means.&lt;/ref&gt; are better than the low.

There are also nine kinds of union according to the force of passion or carnal desire, as follows:—

{| class=&quot;column-table&quot;
|-
! MEN.
! WOMEN.
! MEN.
! WOMEN.
|-
| Small.
| Small.
| Small.
| Middling.
|-
| Middling.
| Middling.
| Small.
| Intense.
|-
| Intense.
| Intense.
| Middling.
| Small.
|-
|
|
| Middling.
| Intense.
|-
|
|
| Intense.
| Small.
|-
|
|
| Intense.
| Middling.
|}

A man is called a man of small passion whose desire at the time of sexual union is not great, whose semen is scanty, and who cannot bear the warm embraces of the female.

Those who differ from this temperament are called men of middling passion, while those of intense passion are full of desire.

In the same way, women are supposed to have the three degrees of feeling as specified above.

Lastly, according to time there are three kinds of men and women, viz., the ''short-timed'', the ''moderate-timed'', and the ''long-timed'', and of these as in the previous statements, there are nine kinds of union.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>35uxolsquo7af0tinkcdih9lru1cwv3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132728</id>
      <parentid>15132723</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:42:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132728</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1998" sha1="958gocs87wu8hdgh42znztax4452gen" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Anton.t.gregersen&quot; /&gt;{{rh|32|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;with a man most remote from her in size is called the ''lowest-union'', and is of one kind only.

In other words, the ''horse'' and ''mare'', the ''bull'' and ''deer'', form the ''high-union'', while the ''horse'' and ''deer'' form the ''highest-union''. On the female side, the ''elephant'' and ''bull'', the ''mare'' and ''hare'', form ''low-unions'', while the ''elephant'' and the ''hare'' make the ''lowest-unions''.

There are then, nine kinds of union according to dimensions. {{SIC|Amongest}} all these, ''equal-unions'' are the best, those of a superlative degree, i.e., the highest and lowest, are the worst, and the rest are middling, and with them the high&lt;ref&gt;''High-unions'' are said to be better than ''low-ones'', for in the former it is possible for the male to satisfy his own passion without injuring the female, while in the latter it is difficult for the female to be satisfied by any means.&lt;/ref&gt; are better than the low.

There are also nine kinds of union according to the force of passion or carnal desire, as follows:—

{| class=&quot;column-table&quot;
|-
! MEN.
! WOMEN.
! MEN.
! WOMEN.
|-
| Small.
| Small.
| Small.
| Middling.
|-
| Middling.
| Middling.
| Small.
| Intense.
|-
| Intense.
| Intense.
| Middling.
| Small.
|-
|
|
| Middling.
| Intense.
|-
|
|
| Intense.
| Small.
|-
|
|
| Intense.
| Middling.
|}

A man is called a man of small passion whose desire at the time of sexual union is not great, whose semen is scanty, and who cannot bear the warm embraces of the female.

Those who differ from this temperament are called men of middling passion, while those of intense passion are full of desire.

In the same way, women are supposed to have the three degrees of feeling as specified above.

Lastly, according to time there are three kinds of men and women, viz., the ''short-timed'', the ''moderate-timed'', and the ''long-timed'', and of these as in the previous statements, there are nine kinds of union.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2320" sha1="aczribp98wxaurt0mfjqgwegsvagayt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Sharfshak&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|33}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;But on this last head there is a difference of opinion about the female, which should be stated.

''Auddalika'' says, “Females do not emit as males do. The males simply remove their desire, while the females, from their consciousness of desire, feel a certain kind of pleasure, which gives them satisfaction, but it is impossible for them to tell you what kind of pleasure they feel. The fact from which this becomes evident is, that males, when engaged in coition, cease of themselves after emission, and are satisfied, but it is not so with females.”

This opinion is however objected to on the grounds, that if a male be ''long-timed'', the female loves him the more, but if he be ''short-timed'', she is dissatisfied with him. And this circumstance, some say, would prove that the female emits also.

But this opinion does not hold good, for if it takes a long time to allay a woman's desire, and during this time she is enjoying great pleasure, it is quite natural then that she should wish for its continuation. And on this subject there is a verse as follows:—

“By union with men the lust, desire, or passion of women is satisfied, and the pleasure derived from the consciousness of it is called their satisfaction.”

The followers of ''Babhravya'', however, say that the semen of women continues to fall from the beginning of the sexual union to its end, and it is right that it should be so, for if they had no semen there would be no embryo.

To this there is an objection. In the beginning of coition the passion of the woman is middling, and she cannot bear the vigorous thrusts of her lover, but by degrees her passion increases until she ceases to think about her body, and then finally she wishes to stop from further coition.

This objection, however, does not hold good, for even in ordinary things that revolve with great force, such as a potter's wheel, or a top, we find that the motion at first is slow, but by degrees it becomes very rapid. In the same way the passion of the woman having gradually increased, she has a desire to discontinue coition, when all the semen has fallen away. And there is a verse with regard to this as follows:—

“The fall of the semen of the man takes place only at the end of coition, while the semen of the woman falls con-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/63</title>
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      <text bytes="2563" sha1="ogl7847chjwfo90nqbu2c36z43eveuf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|35}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;in the case of men and women we find that each of them accomplishes his or her own end separately, and this is inconsistent. But this is a mistake, for we find that sometimes two things are done at the same time, as for instance in the fighting of rams, both the rams receive the shock at the same time on their heads. Again, in throwing one wood apple against another, and also in a fight or struggle of wrestlers. If it be said that in these cases the things employed are of the same kind, it is answered that even in the case of men and women, the nature of the two persons is the same. And as the difference in their ways of working arises from the difference of their conformation only, it follows that men experience the same kind of pleasure as women do.

There is also a verse on this subject as follows:—

&quot;Men and women being of the same nature, feel the same kind of pleasure, and therefore a man should marry such a woman as will love him ever afterwards.&quot;

The pleasure of men and women being thus proved to be of the same kind, it follows that in regard to time, there are nine kinds of sexual intercourse, in the same way as there are nine kinds according to the force of passion.

There being thus nine kinds of union with regard to dimensions, force of passion, and time, respectively, by making combinations of them, innumerable kinds of union would be produced. Therefore in each particular kind of sexual union, men should use such means as they may think suitable for the occasion.&lt;ref&gt;This paragraph should be particularly noted, for it specially applies to married men and their wives. So many men utterly ignore the feelings of the woman, and never pay the slightest attention to the passion of the latter. To understand the subject thoroughly, it is absolutely necessary to study it, and then a person will know that, as dough is prepared for baking, so must a woman be prepared for sexual intercourse, if she is to derive satisfaction from it.&lt;/ref&gt;

At the first time of sexual union the passion of the male is intense, and his time is short, but in subsequent unions on the same day the reverse of this is the case. With the female however it is the contrary, for at the first time her passion is weak, and then her time long, but on subsequent {{SIC|occassions}} on the same day, her passion is intense and her time short, until her passion is satisfied.

{{ph|On the different Kinds of Love.}}

Men learned in the humanities are of opinion that love is of four kinds, viz.:
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      <text bytes="2567" sha1="cjwfciuiwufji6j9r9rhnwv2sjo5ois" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|35}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;in the case of men and women we find that each of them accomplishes his or her own end separately, and this is inconsistent. But this is a mistake, for we find that sometimes two things are done at the same time, as for instance in the fighting of rams, both the rams receive the shock at the same time on their heads. Again, in throwing one wood apple against another, and also in a fight or struggle of wrestlers. If it be said that in these cases the things employed are of the same kind, it is answered that even in the case of men and women, the nature of the two persons is the same. And as the difference in their ways of working arises from the difference of their conformation only, it follows that men experience the same kind of pleasure as women do.

There is also a verse on this subject as follows:—

&quot;Men and women being of the same nature, feel the same kind of pleasure, and therefore a man should marry such a woman as will love him ever afterwards.&quot;

The pleasure of men and women being thus proved to be of the same kind, it follows that in regard to time, there are nine kinds of sexual intercourse, in the same way as there are nine kinds according to the force of passion.

There being thus nine kinds of union with regard to dimensions, force of passion, and time, respectively, by making combinations of them, innumerable kinds of union would be produced. Therefore in each particular kind of sexual union, men should use such means as they may think suitable for the occasion.&lt;ref&gt;This paragraph should be particularly noted, for it specially applies to married men and their wives. So many men utterly ignore the feelings of the woman, and never pay the slightest attention to the passion of the latter. To understand the subject thoroughly, it is absolutely necessary to study it, and then a person will know that, as dough is prepared for baking, so must a woman be prepared for sexual intercourse, if she is to derive satisfaction from it.&lt;/ref&gt;

At the first time of sexual union the passion of the male is intense, and his time is short, but in subsequent unions on the same day the reverse of this is the case. With the female however it is the contrary, for at the first time her passion is weak, and then her time long, but on subsequent {{SIC|occassions}} on the same day, her passion is intense and her time short, until her passion is satisfied.

{{ph/sub|On the different Kinds of Love.}}

Men learned in the humanities are of opinion that love is of four kinds, viz.:
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/64</title>
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      <text bytes="1426" sha1="m314quk8ee50wme293tyx3kd4b9vj0j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|36|''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;# Love acquired by continual habit.
# Love resulting from the imagination.
# Love resulting from belief.
# Love resulting from the perception of external objects.

(1) Love resulting from the constant and continual performance of some act, is called love acquired by constant practice and habit, as for instance the love of sexual intercourse, the love of hunting, the love of drinking, the love of gambling, etc., etc.

(2) Love which is felt for things to which we are not habituated, and which proceeds entirely from ideas, is called love resulting from imagination, as for instance, that love which some men and women and eunuchs feel for the ''Auparishtaka'' or mouth congress, and that which is felt by all for such things as embracing, kissing, etc., etc.

(3) The love which is mutual on both sides, and proved to be true, when each looks upon the other as his or her very own, such is called love resulting from belief by the learned.

(4) The love resulting from the perception of external objects is quite evident and well known to the world, because the pleasure which it affords is superior to the pleasure of the other kinds of love, which exist only for its sake.

What has been said in this chapter upon the subject of sexual union is sufficient for the learned; but for the edification of the ignorant, the same will now be treated of at length and in detail.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/65</title>
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      <text bytes="1998" sha1="t2x725guirjjazt6t5tjtvzijdhuisu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cyarenkatnikh&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER II.}}
{{ph/sub|Of the Embrace}}

{{sc|This}} part of the ''Kama Shastra'', which treats of sexual union, is also called &quot;Sixty-four.&quot; (''Chatushshashti'') . Some old authors say that it is called so, because it contains sixty-four chapters. Others are of opinion that the author of this part being a person named ''Panchala'', and the person who recited the part of the ''Rig Veda'' called ''Dashatapa'', which contains sixty-four verses, being also called ''Panchala'', the name &quot;sixty-four&quot; has been given to the part of the work in honor of the ''Rig Vedas''. The followers of ''Babhravya'' say on the other hand that this part contains eight subjects, viz., the embrace, kissing, scratching with nails or fingers, biting, lying down, making various sounds, playing the part of a man and the ''Auparishtaka'', or mouth congress. Each of these subjects being of eight kinds, and eight multiplied by eight being sixty-four, this part is therefore named &quot;sixty-four.&quot; But ''Vatsyayana'' affirms that as this part contains also the following subjects, viz., striking, crying, the acts of a man during congress, the various kinds of congress, and other subjects, the name &quot;sixty-four&quot; is given to it only accidentally. As, for instance, we say this tree is &quot;''Saptaparna'',&quot; or seven-leaved, this offering of rice is &quot;''Panchavarna'',&quot; or five-colored, but the tree has not seven leaves, neither has the rice seven colors.

However the part sixty-four is now treated of, and the embrace, being the first subject, will now be considered.

Now the embrace which indicates the mutual love of a man and woman who have come together is of four kinds, viz.—

{{center block|{{plainlist|
* Touching.
* Piercing.
* Rubbing.
* Pressing.}}}}

The action in each case is denoted by the meaning of the word which stands for it.

(1) When a man under some pretext or other goes in front or alongside of a woman and touches her body with his own, it is called the &quot;touching embrace.&quot;
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/66</title>
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      <text bytes="2281" sha1="4obhia7p43q63uy9kahdkoxc8n07m4t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cyarenkatnikh&quot; /&gt;{{rh|38|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;(2) When a woman in a lonely place bends down, as if to pick up something, and pierces, as it were, a man sitting or standing, with her breasts, and the man in return takes hold of them, it is called a &quot;piercing embrace.&quot;

The above two kinds of embrace take place only between persons who do not, as yet, speak freely with each other.

(3) When two lovers are walking slowly together, either in the dark, or in a place of public resort, or in a lonely place, and rub their bodies against each other, it is called a &quot;rubbing embrace.&quot;

(4) When on the above occasion one of them presses the other's body forcibly against a wall or pillar, it is called a &quot;pressing embrace.&quot;

These two last embraces are peculiar to those who know the intentions of each other.

At the time of meeting the four following kinds of embrace are used, viz.—

{{plainlist|
* ''Jataveshtitaka'', or the twining of a creeper.
* ''Vrikshadhirudhaka'', or climbing a tree.
* ''Tila-Tandulaka'', or the mixture of sesamum seed with rice.
* ''Kshiraniraka'', or milk and water embrace.
}}

(1) When a woman, clinging to a man as a creeper twines round a tree, bends his head down to hers with the desire of kissing him and slightly makes the sound of ''sut sut'', embraces him, and looks lovingly towards him, it is called an embrace like the &quot;twining of a creeper.&quot;

(2) When a woman, having placed one of her feet on the foot of her lover, and the other on one of his thighs, passes one of her arms round his back, and the other on his shoulders, makes slightly the sounds of singing and cooing, and wishes, as it were, to climb up him in order to have a kiss, it is called an embrace like the &quot;climbing of a tree.&quot;

These two kinds of embrace take place when the lover is standing.

(3) When lovers lie on a bed and embrace each other so closely that the arms and thighs of the one are encircled by the arms and thighs of the other, and are, as it were, rubbing up against them, this is called an embrace like &quot;the mixture of sesamum seed with rice.&quot;

(4) When a man and a woman are very much in love with each other, and, not thinking of any pain or hurt, embrace each other as if they were entering into each other's bodies either while the woman is sitting on the lap of the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/67</title>
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      <text bytes="2234" sha1="s8w31n6gd8o129pana3kb40y5uzlaba" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cyarenkatnikh&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|39}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;man, or in front of him, or on a bed, then it is called an embrace like a &quot;mixture of milk and water.&quot;

These two kinds of embrace take place at the time of sexual union.

''Babhravya'' has thus related to us the above eight kinds of embraces.

''Suvarnanabha'' moreover gives us four ways of embracing simple members of the body, which are:

{{plainlist|
* The embrace of the thighs.
* The embrace of the ''jaghana'', i.e., the part of the body from the {{SIC|naval|navel}} downwards to the thighs.
* The embrace of the breasts.
* The embrace of the forehead.
}}

(1) When one of two lovers presses forcibly one or both of the thighs of the other between his or her own, it is called the &quot;embrace of thighs.&quot;

(2) When the man presses the ''jaghana'' or middle part of the woman's body against his own, and mounts upon her to practice, either scratching with the nail or finger, or biting, or striking, or kissing, the hair of the woman being loose and flowing, it is caller the &quot;embrace of the ''jaghana''.&quot;

(3) When a man places his breast between the breasts of a woman and presses her with it, it is called the &quot;embrace of the breasts.&quot;

(4) When either of the lovers touches the mouth, the eyes and the forehead of the other with his or her own, it is called the &quot;embrace of the forehead.&quot;

Some say that even shampooing is a kind of embrace, because there is a touching of bodies in it. But ''Vatsyayana'' thinks that shampooing is performed at a different time, and for a different purpose, and as it is also of a different character, it cannot be said to be included in the embrace.

There are also some verses on the subject as follows:—

&quot;The whole subject of embracing is of such a nature that men who ask questions about it, or who hear about it, or who talk about it, acquire thereby a desire for enjoyment. Even those embraces that are not mentioned in the ''Kama Shastra'' should be practiced at the time of sexual enjoyment, if they are in any way conducive to the increase of love or passion. The rules of the ''Shastra'' apply so long as the passion of man is middling, but when the wheel of love is once set in motion, there is then no ''Shastra'' and no order.&quot;
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/68</title>
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{{ph/sub|On Kissing}}

It is said by some that there is no fixed time or order between the embrace, the kiss, and the pressing or scratching with the nails or fingers, but that all these things should be done generally before sexual union takes place, while striking and making the various sounds generally takes place at the time of the union. ''Vatsyayana'', however, thinks that anything may take place at any time, for love does not care for time or order.

On the occasion of the first congress, kissing and the other things mentioned above should be done moderately, they should not be continued for a long time, and should be done alternately. On subsequent occasions, however, the reverse of all this may take place, and moderation will not be necessary, they may continue for a long time, and for the purpose of kindling love, they may be all done at the same time.

The following are the places for kissing, viz., the forehead, the eyes, the cheeks, the throat, the bosom, the breasts, the lips, and the interior of the mouth. Moreover the people of the ''Lat'' country kiss also the following places, viz., the joints of the thighs, the arms, and the navel. But ''Vatsyayana'' thinks that though kissing is practiced by these people in the above places on account of the intensity of their love, and the customs of their country, it is not fit to be practiced by all.

Now in a case of a young girl there are three sorts of kisses, viz.:

{{center block|{{plainlist|
* The nominal kiss.
* The throbbing kiss.
* The touching kiss.}}}}

(1) When a girl only touches the mouth of her lover with her own, but does not herself do anything, it is called the &quot;nominal kiss.&quot;

(2) When a girl, setting aside her bashfulness a little, wishes to touch the lip that is pressed into her mouth, and with that object moves her lower lip, but not the upper one, it is called the &quot;throbbing kiss.&quot;

(3) When a girl touches her lover's lip with her tongue,&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|40}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2210" sha1="oph6dfu9ihkdir1cz1uu5t705v8rz9p" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|41}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and having shut her eyes, places her hands on those of her lover, it is called the &quot;touching kiss.'

Other authors describe four other kinds of kisses, viz.:

{{block center|{{plainlist|
* The straight kiss.
* The bent kiss.
* The turned kiss.
* The pressed kiss.}}}}

(1) When the lips of two lovers are brought into direct contact with each other, it is called a &quot;straight kiss.&quot;

(2) When the heads of two lovers are bent towards each other, and when so bent, kissing takes place, it is called a &quot;bent kiss.&quot;

(3) When one of them turns up the face of the other by holding the head and chin, and then kissing, it is called a &quot;turned kiss.&quot;

(4) Lastly when the lower lip is pressed with much force, it is called a &quot;pressed kiss.&quot;

There is also a fifth kind of kiss called the &quot;greatly pressed kiss,&quot; which is effected by taking hold of the lower lip between two fingers, and then after touching it with the tongue, pressing it with great force with the lip.

As regards kissing, a wager may be laid as to which will get hold of the lips of the other first. If the woman loses, she should pretend to cry, should keep her lover off by shaking her hands, and turn away from him and dispute with him saying, &quot;Let another wager be laid.&quot; If she loses this a second time, she should appear doubly distressed, and when her lover is off his guard or asleep, she should get hold of his lower lip, and hold it in her teeth, so that it should not slip away, and then she should laugh, make a loud noise, deride him, dance about, and say whatever she likes in a joking way, moving her eyebrows, and rolling her eyes. Such are the wagers and quarrels as far as kissing is concerned, but the same may be applied with regard to the pressing or scratching with the nails and fingers, biting and striking. All these however are only peculiar to men and women of intense passion.

When a man kisses the upper lip of a woman, while she in return kisses his lower lip, it is called the &quot;kiss of the upper lip.&quot;

When one of them takes both the lips of the other between his or her own, it is called &quot;a clasping kiss.&quot; A woman, however, only takes this kind of kiss from a man who has&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2204" sha1="bhwlz2qza4arsw1w1bqifm1yd579524" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Rajasekhar1961&quot; /&gt;{{rh|42|''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;no moustache. And on the occasion of this kiss, if one of them touches the teeth, the tongue, and the palate of the other, with his or her tongue, it is called the &quot;fighting of the tongue.&quot; In the same way, the pressing of the teeth of the one against the mouth of the other is to be practiced.

Kissing is of four kinds, viz., moderate, contracted, pressed, and soft, according to the different parts of the body which are kissed, for different kinds of kisses are appropriate for different parts of the body.

When a woman looks at the face of her lover while he is asleep, and kisses it to show her intention or desire, it is called a &quot;kiss that kindles love.&quot;

When a woman kisses her lover while he is engaged in business, or while he is quarreling with her, or while he is looking at something else, so that his mind may be turned away, it is called a &quot;kiss that turns away.&quot;

When a lover coming home late at night kisses his beloved who is asleep on her bed in order to show her his desire, it is called a &quot;kiss that awakens.&quot; On such an occasion the woman may pretend to be asleep at the time of her lover's arrival, so that she may know his intention and obtain respect from him.

When a person kisses the reflection of the person he loves in a mirror, in water, or on a wall, it is called a &quot;kiss showing the intention.&quot;

When a person kisses a child sitting on his lap, or a picture, or an image, or figure, in the presence of the person beloved by him, it is called a &quot;transferred kiss.&quot;

When at night at a theatre, or in an assembly of caste men, a man coming up to a woman kisses a finger of her hand if she be standing, or a toe of her foot if she be sitting, or when a woman in shampooing her lover's body, places her face on his thigh (as if she were sleepy) so as to inflame his passion, and kisses his thigh or great toe, it is called a &quot;demonstrative kiss.&quot;

There is also a verse on this subject as follows:

&quot;Whatever things may be done by one of the lovers to the other, the same should be returned by the other, i.e., if the woman kisses him he should kiss her in return, if she strikes him he should also strike her in return.&quot;
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{{ph/sub|On Pressing, or Marking, or Scratching with the Nails}}

{{sc|When}} love becomes intense, pressing with the nails or scratching the body with them is practiced, and it is done on the following occasions: On the first visit; at the time of setting out on a journey; on the return from a journey; at the time when an angry lover is reconciled; and lastly when
the woman is intoxicated.

But pressing with the nails is not an usual thing except with those who are intensely passionate, i.e., full of passion. It is employed together with biting, by those to whom the practice is agreeable.

Pressing with the nails is of the eight following kinds, according to the forms of the marks which are produced, viz:

# Sounding.
# Half moon.
# A circle.
# A line.
# A tiger's nail or claw.
# A peacock's foot.
# The jump of a hare.
# The leaf of a blue lotus.

The places that are to be pressed with the nails are as follows: the arm pit, the throat, the breasts, the lips, the ''jaghana'', or middle parts of the body, and the thighs. But ''Suvarnanabha'' is of opinion that when the impetuosity of passion is excessive, then the places need not be considered.

The qualities of good nails are that they should be bright, well set, clean, entire, convex, soft, and glossy in appearance. Nails are of three kinds according to their size, viz:

{{block center|{{plainlist|
* Small
* Middling
* Large
}}}}

Large nails, which give grace to the hands, and attract the hearts of women from their appearance, are possessed by the ''Bengalees''.

Small nails, which can be used in various ways, and are to be applied only with the object of giving pleasure, are possessed by the people of the southern districts.
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      <text bytes="2345" sha1="fpwa40l3wb2wsgd3nwos14bdmcpyjtd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|44|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Middling nails, which contain the properties of both the above kinds, belong to the people of the ''Maharashtra''.

(1) When a person presses the chin, the breasts, the lower lip, or the ''jaghana'' of another so softly that no scratch or mark is left, but only the hair on the body becomes erect from the touch of the nails, and the nails themselves make a sound, it is called a &quot;sounding or pressing with the nails.&quot;

This pressing is used in the case of a young girl when her lover shampoos her, scratches her head, and wants to trouble or frighten her.

(2) The curved mark with the nails, which is impressed on the neck and the breasts is called the &quot;half moon.&quot;

(3) When the half moons are impressed opposite to each other, it is called a &quot;circle.&quot; This mark with the nails is generally made on the navel, the small cavities about the buttocks, and on the joints of the thigh.

(4) A mark in the form of a small line, and which can be made on any part of the body, is called a &quot;line.&quot;

(5) This same line, when it is curved, and made on the breast, is called a &quot;tiger's nail.&quot;

(6) When a curved mark is made on the breast by means of the five nails, it is called a &quot;peacock's foot.&quot; This mark is made with the object of being praised, for it requires a great deal of skill to make it properly.

(7) When five marks with the nails are made close to one another near the nipple of the breast, it is called &quot;the jump of a hare.&quot;

(8) A mark made on the breast or on the hips in the form of a leaf of the blue lotus, is called the &quot;leaf of a blue lotus.&quot;

When a person is going on a journey, and makes a mark on the thighs, or on the breast, it is called a &quot;token of remembrance.&quot; On such an occasion three or four lines are impressed close to one another with the nails.

Here ends the marking with the nails. Marks of other kinds than the above may also be made with the nails, for the ancient authors say, that as there are innumerable degrees of skill among men (the practice of this art being known to all), so there are innumerable ways of making these marks. And as pressing or marking with the nails is dependent on love, no one can say with certainty how many different kinds of marks with the nails do actually exist. The reason of this is, ''Vatsyayana'' says, that as variety is necessary in love, so&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1533" sha1="pqmp1w7yeh33rbdrt10ueeretpm6orm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|45 }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;love is to be produced by means of variety. It is on this account that courtezans, who are well acquainted with various ways and means, become so desirable, for if variety is sought in all the arts and amusements, such as archery and others, how much more should it be sought after in the present case.

The marks of the nails should not be made on married women, but particular kinds of marks may be made on their private parts for the remembrance and increase of love.

There are also some verses on the subject, as follows:

&quot;The love of a woman who sees the marks of nails on the private parts of her body, even though they are old and almost worn out, becomes again fresh and new. If there be no marks of nails to remind a person of the passages of love, then love is lessened in the same way as when no union takes place for a long time.&quot;

Even when a stranger sees at a distance a young woman with the marks of nails on her breast, &lt;ref&gt;From this it would appear that in ancient times the breasts of women were not covered, and this is seen on the paintings of the ''Ajunta'' and other caves, where we find that the breasts of even royal ladies and others are exposed.&lt;/ref&gt; he is filled with love and respect for her.

A man, also, who carries the marks of nails and teeth on some parts of his body, influences the mind of a woman, even though it be ever so firm. In short, nothing tends to increase love so much as the effects of marking with the nails, and biting.
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{{ph/sub|On Biting, and the Means to be Employed with Regard to Women of Different Countries.}}

{{sc|All}} the places that can be kissed, are also the places that can be bitten, except the upper lip, the interior of the mouth, and the eyes.

The qualities of good teeth are as follows: They should be equal, possessed of a pleasing brightness, capable of being colored, of proper proportions, unbroken, and with sharp ends.

The defects of teeth on the other hand are, that they are blunt, protruding from the gums, rough, soft, large, and loosely set.

The following are the different kinds of biting, viz:

{{block center|{{plainlist|
* The hidden bite.
* The swollen bite.
* The point.
* The line of points.
* The coral and the jewel.
* The line of jewels.
* The broken cloud.
* The biting of the boar.}}}}

(i) The biting which is shown only by the excessive redness of the skin that is bitten, is called the &quot;hidden bite.&quot;

(2) When the skin is pressed down on both sides, it is called the &quot;swollen bite.&quot;

(3) When a small portion of the skin is bitten with two teeth only, it is called the &quot;point.&quot;

(4) When such small portions of the skin are bitten with all the teeth, it is called the &quot;line of points.&quot;

(5) The biting which is done by bringing together the teeth and the lips, is called the &quot;coral and the jewel.&quot; The lip is the coral, and the teeth the jewel.

(6) When biting is done with all the teeth, it is called the line or jewels.

(7) The biting which consists of unequal risings in a circle, and which comes from the space between the teeth, is called the &quot;broken cloud.&quot; This is impressed on the breasts.

(8) The biting which consists of many broad rows of&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|46}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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marks near to one another, and with red intervals, is called the &quot;biting of a boar.&quot; This is impressed on the breasts an the shoulders; and these two last modes of biting are peculiar to persons of intense passion.

The lower lip is the place on which the &quot;hidden bite,&quot; the &quot;swollen bite,&quot; and the &quot;point&quot; are made; again the &quot;swollen bite,&quot; and the &quot;coral and the jewel&quot; bite are done on the cheek. Kissing, pressing with the nails, and biting are the ornaments of the left cheek, and when the word cheek is used, it is to be understood as the left cheek.

Both the &quot;line of points&quot; and the &quot;line of jewels&quot; are to be impressed on the throat, the arm pit, and the joints of the thighs; but the &quot;line of points&quot; alone is to be impressed on the forehead and the thighs.

The marking with the nails, and the biting of the following things, viz., an ornament of the forehead, an ear ornament, a bunch of flowers, a betel leaf, or a tamala leaf, which are worn by, or belong to the woman that is beloved, are signs of the desire of enjoyment.

Here end the different kinds of biting.

{{***|3|char=៛|4em}}

In the affairs of love a man should do such things as are agreeable to the women of different {{SIC|countires}}.

The women of the central countries (i.e., between the ''Ganges'' and the ''Jumna'') are noble in their character, not accustomed to disgraceful practices, and dislike pressing with the nails and biting.

The women of the ''Balhika'' country are gained over by striking.

The women of ''Avantika'' are fond of foul pleasures, and have not good manners.

The women of the ''Maharashtra'' are fond of practicing the sixty-four arts, they utter low and harsh words, and like to be spoken to in the same way, and have an impetuous desire of enjoyment.

The women of ''Pataliputra'' (i.e., the modern Patna) are of the same nature as the women of the ''Maharashtra'', but show their likings only in secret.

The women of the ''Dravida'' country, though they are rubbed and pressed about at the time of sexual enjoyment, have a slow fall of semen, that is they are very slow in the act of coition.
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      <text bytes="2171" sha1="hrd0hcpttvnjs16yqc770d5sv3and1r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|{{SIC|4|47}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;marks near to one another, and with red intervals, is called the &quot;biting of a boar.&quot; This is impressed on the breasts an the shoulders; and these two last modes of biting are peculiar to persons of intense passion.

The lower lip is the place on which the &quot;hidden bite,&quot; the &quot;swollen bite,&quot; and the &quot;point&quot; are made; again the &quot;swollen bite,&quot; and the &quot;coral and the jewel&quot; bite are done on the cheek. Kissing, pressing with the nails, and biting are the ornaments of the left cheek, and when the word cheek is used, it is to be understood as the left cheek.

Both the &quot;line of points&quot; and the &quot;line of jewels&quot; are to be impressed on the throat, the arm pit, and the joints of the thighs; but the &quot;line of points&quot; alone is to be impressed on the forehead and the thighs.

The marking with the nails, and the biting of the following things, viz., an ornament of the forehead, an ear ornament, a bunch of flowers, a betel leaf, or a tamala leaf, which are worn by, or belong to the woman that is beloved, are signs of the desire of enjoyment.

Here end the different kinds of biting.

{{***|3|char=៛|4em}}

In the affairs of love a man should do such things as are agreeable to the women of different {{SIC|countires}}.

The women of the central countries (i.e., between the ''Ganges'' and the ''Jumna'') are noble in their character, not accustomed to disgraceful practices, and dislike pressing with the nails and biting.

The women of the ''Balhika'' country are gained over by striking.

The women of ''Avantika'' are fond of foul pleasures, and have not good manners.

The women of the ''Maharashtra'' are fond of practicing the sixty-four arts, they utter low and harsh words, and like to be spoken to in the same way, and have an impetuous desire of enjoyment.

The women of ''Pataliputra'' (i.e., the modern Patna) are of the same nature as the women of the ''Maharashtra'', but show their likings only in secret.

The women of the ''Dravida'' country, though they are rubbed and pressed about at the time of sexual enjoyment, have a slow fall of semen, that is they are very slow in the act of coition.
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      <text bytes="2171" sha1="c0vz40bdykunnseklqkj24itr2z41hf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|{{SIC|4|47}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;marks near to one another, and with red intervals, is called the &quot;biting of a boar.&quot; This is impressed on the breasts an the shoulders; and these two last modes of biting are peculiar to persons of intense passion.

The lower lip is the place on which the &quot;hidden bite,&quot; the &quot;swollen bite,&quot; and the &quot;point&quot; are made; again the &quot;swollen bite,&quot; and the &quot;coral and the jewel&quot; bite are done on the cheek. Kissing, pressing with the nails, and biting are the ornaments of the left cheek, and when the word cheek is used, it is to be understood as the left cheek.

Both the &quot;line of points&quot; and the &quot;line of jewels&quot; are to be impressed on the throat, the arm pit, and the joints of the thighs; but the &quot;line of points&quot; alone is to be impressed on the forehead and the thighs.

The marking with the nails, and the biting of the following things, viz., an ornament of the forehead, an ear ornament, a bunch of flowers, a betel leaf, or a tamala leaf, which are worn by, or belong to the woman that is beloved, are signs of the desire of enjoyment.

Here end the different kinds of biting.

{{***|3|char=†|4em}}

In the affairs of love a man should do such things as are agreeable to the women of different {{SIC|countires}}.

The women of the central countries (i.e., between the ''Ganges'' and the ''Jumna'') are noble in their character, not accustomed to disgraceful practices, and dislike pressing with the nails and biting.

The women of the ''Balhika'' country are gained over by striking.

The women of ''Avantika'' are fond of foul pleasures, and have not good manners.

The women of the ''Maharashtra'' are fond of practicing the sixty-four arts, they utter low and harsh words, and like to be spoken to in the same way, and have an impetuous desire of enjoyment.

The women of ''Pataliputra'' (i.e., the modern Patna) are of the same nature as the women of the ''Maharashtra'', but show their likings only in secret.

The women of the ''Dravida'' country, though they are rubbed and pressed about at the time of sexual enjoyment, have a slow fall of semen, that is they are very slow in the act of coition.
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      <text bytes="2285" sha1="21h1z7ji24nobkk8usp3a1xt3cdwqmp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|48|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;The women of ''Vanavasi'' are moderately passionate, they go through every kind of enjoyment, cover their bodies, and abuse those who utter low, mean, and harsh words.

The women of ''Avanti'' hate kissing, marking with the nails, and biting, but they have a fondness for various kinds of sexual union.

The women of ''Malwa'' like embracing and kissing, but not wounding, and they are gained over by striking.

The women of ''Abhira'', and those of the country about the Indus and five rivers (i.e., the Punjab), are gained over by the ''Auparishtaka'' or mouth congress.

The women of ''Aparatika'' are full of passion, and make slowly the sound &quot;Sit.&quot;

The women of the ''Lat'' country have even more impetuous desire, and also make the sound &quot;Sit.&quot;

The women of the ''Stri Rajya'', and of ''Koshola'' (''Oude'') are full of impetuous desire, their semen falls in large quantities, and they are fond of taking medicine to make it do so.

The women of the ''Audhra'' country have tender bodies, they are fond of enjoyment, and have a liking for voluptuous pleasures.

The women of ''Ganda'' have tender bodies, and speak sweetly.

Now ''Suvarnanabha'' is of opinion that that which is agreeable to the nature of a particular person, is of more consequence than that which is agreeable to a whole nation, and that therefore the peculiarities of the country should not be observed in such cases. The various pleasures, the dress, and the sports of one country are in time borrowed by another, and in such a case these things must be considered as belonging originally to that country.

Among the things mentioned above, viz., embracing, kissing, etc., those which increase passion should be done first, and those which are only for amusement or variety should be done afterwards.

There are also some verses on this subject as follows:

&quot;When a man bites a woman forcibly, she should angrily do the same to him with double force. Thus a 'point' should be returned with a 'line of points,' and a 'line of points' with a 'broken cloud,' and if she be excessively chafed, she should at once begin a love quarrel with him. At such a time she should take hold of her lover by the hair, and bend his head down, and kiss his lower lip, and then, being intoxicated&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="545" sha1="s89ldg3w4dqvcd303608clnxko76py5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|49}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;with love, she should shut her eyes and bite him in various places. Even by day, and in a place of public resort, when her lover shows her any mark that she may have inflicted on his body, she should smile at the sight of it, and turning her face as if she were going to chide him, she should show him with an angry look the marks on her own body that have been made by him. Thus if men and women act according to each other's liking, their love for each other will not be lessened even in one hundred years.&quot;
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/78</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="1981" sha1="sfu6rxvldru9fglwh7pgd29c952r006" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER VI.}}
{{ph/sub|Of the Different Ways of Lying Down, and Various Kinds of Congress.}}

{{sc|On}} the occasion of a &quot;high congress&quot; the ''Mrigi'' (deer-woman) should lie down in such a way as to widen her yoni, while in a &quot;low congress&quot; the ''Hastini'' (elephant-woman) should lie down so as to contract hers. But in an &quot;equal congress&quot; they should lie down in the natural position. What is said above concerning the ''Mrigi'' and the ''Hastini'' applies also to the ''Vadawa'' (mare-woman).  In the &quot;low congress&quot; the women should particularly make use of medicine, to cause her desires to be satisfied quickly.

The deer-woman has the following three ways of lying down.

{{block center|{{plainlist|
* The widely opened position.
* The yawning position.
* The position of the wife of ''Indra''. }}

(1) When she lowers her head and raises her middle parts, it is called the &quot;widely opened position.&quot; At such a time the man should apply some unguent, so as to make the entrance easy.

(2) When she raises her thighs and keeps them wide apart and engages in congress, it is called the &quot;yawning position.&quot;

(3) When she places her thighs with her legs doubled on them upon her sides, and thus engages in congress, it is called the position of ''Indrani'', and this is learnt only by practice. The position is also useful in the case of the &quot;highest congress.&quot;

The &quot;clasping position&quot; is used in &quot;low congress,&quot; and in the &quot;lowest congress,&quot; together with the pressing position,&quot; the &quot;twining position,&quot; and the &quot;mare's position.&quot;

When the legs of both the male and the female are stretched straight out over each other, it is called the &quot;clasping position.&quot;. It is of two kinds, the side position and the supine position, according to the way in which they lie down. In the side position the male should invariably lie on his left side, and cause the woman to lie on her right side, and this rule is to be observed in lying down with all kinds of women.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|50}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132795</id>
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      <text bytes="1983" sha1="jc4iymatinlhhasbhbp14vllaa1h9xn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER VI.}}
{{ph/sub|Of the Different Ways of Lying Down, and Various Kinds of Congress.}}

{{sc|On}} the occasion of a &quot;high congress&quot; the ''Mrigi'' (deer-woman) should lie down in such a way as to widen her yoni, while in a &quot;low congress&quot; the ''Hastini'' (elephant-woman) should lie down so as to contract hers. But in an &quot;equal congress&quot; they should lie down in the natural position. What is said above concerning the ''Mrigi'' and the ''Hastini'' applies also to the ''Vadawa'' (mare-woman).  In the &quot;low congress&quot; the women should particularly make use of medicine, to cause her desires to be satisfied quickly.

The deer-woman has the following three ways of lying down.

{{block center|{{plainlist|
* The widely opened position.
* The yawning position.
* The position of the wife of ''Indra''.
}}}}

(1) When she lowers her head and raises her middle parts, it is called the &quot;widely opened position.&quot; At such a time the man should apply some unguent, so as to make the entrance easy.

(2) When she raises her thighs and keeps them wide apart and engages in congress, it is called the &quot;yawning position.&quot;

(3) When she places her thighs with her legs doubled on them upon her sides, and thus engages in congress, it is called the position of ''Indrani'', and this is learnt only by practice. The position is also useful in the case of the &quot;highest congress.&quot;

The &quot;clasping position&quot; is used in &quot;low congress,&quot; and in the &quot;lowest congress,&quot; together with the pressing position,&quot; the &quot;twining position,&quot; and the &quot;mare's position.&quot;

When the legs of both the male and the female are stretched straight out over each other, it is called the &quot;clasping position.&quot;. It is of two kinds, the side position and the supine position, according to the way in which they lie down. In the side position the male should invariably lie on his left side, and cause the woman to lie on her right side, and this rule is to be observed in lying down with all kinds of women.
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/102</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055617</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132397</id>
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      <text bytes="1317" sha1="rvtqmbe363ut7mdq7s6bfubqh750aix" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|86|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and was beginning to enter upon a career of rigmarole. Thus the Rig-Veda says of God Savitar, the sun conceived as the promoter of life: &quot;God Savitar, approaching on the dark blue sky, sustaining mortals and immortals, comes on his golden chariot, beholding all the worlds.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Rig-Veda 1. 35. 2.&lt;/ref&gt; It is the fiery ball that rises from the sea or over the hills, nothing more in the first place. The ordinary way of mythology would be to make of this Savitar a wonderful charioteer, given over, say, to racing or to warlike deeds. Instead, this process is, as I say, arrested. The natural phenomenon remains the repository of renewed and deepening thought. Even in the Rig-Veda itself the conception of the sun makes great onward strides as the most prominent symbol of the ultimate force at work in the universe. Another stanza, speaking of Sūrya, another sun-god, says, &quot;The sun is the Self or Soul of all that moves or stands.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Rig-Veda 1. 115. 1.&lt;/ref&gt; And yet another, the famous so-called Sāvitrī, or Gāyatrī, which remains sacro-sanct at all times, and is recited daily even now by every orthodox Hindu,&lt;ref&gt;See Monier Williams, ''Transactions of the Fifth International Congress of Orientalists,'' vol. ii., p. 163 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; again turns to Savitar:

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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/105</title>
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    <id>2055620</id>
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      <id>15132621</id>
      <parentid>12556215</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:41:40Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1372" sha1="dsls28yvuexp9lnpky39qgrvr5roaje" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Pantheon of the Veda|89}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;they have more or less definite habitations. In the time of the great Epic, the Mahābhārata, no one knows how many hundreds of years later, they really do manage to foregather in the heaven of one of them, namely, Indra's heaven. They begin to take rank: Indra first, Agni second, and so on. With that comes a little, very little, of those roseate poetic and plastic possibilities which the poets and artists of all ages have read into the finishedly human Greek Olympus. We have seen enough of our theme to know that many gods of the Veda are scarcely more than half persons, their other half being an active force of nature. Such material is not yet ripe even for a Hindu Olympus. The mind of the Vedic poet is the rationalistic mind of the ruminating philosopher, rather than the artistic mind which reproduces the finished product. It is engaged too much in reasoning about and constantly altering the wavering shapes of the gods, so that these remain to the end of Vedic time too uncertain in outline, too fluid in substance for the modelling hand of the artist. On a pinch we could imagine a statue of the most material of the Vedic gods, Indra; but it is hard to imagine a statue of the god Varuna. As a matter of fact there is no record of Vedic ikons, or Vedic temples. In all these senses there is no Vedic Pantheon.

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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/106</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055621</id>
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      <id>15132640</id>
      <parentid>12556216</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:49:44Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1294" sha1="dpvwiwlpluxp44ftom3i199vwha77pg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|90|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;It would seem possible to present the Vedic gods in the order of their importance, but many are equally, or nearly equally, important. We find nearly a dozen of them engaged in creating the world, and rather more than a dozen engaged in producing the sun, placing it on the sky, or preparing a path for it; under these circumstances it is not easy to rank them.&lt;ref&gt;See Macdonell, ''Vedic Mythology,'' p. 15.&lt;/ref&gt; The gods have not all of them come into existence at the same time. Some belong to Indo-European times; others to Indo-Iranian times. Of the rest some come from an earlier, some from a later period of the Veda. If we had all the dates we might try a chronological arrangement pure and simple, but we do not have all the dates.

A celebrated ancient Hindu glossographer and etymologer of the name of Yāska reports three lists, respectively of 32, 36, and 31 gods, or semi-divine beings.&lt;ref&gt;Nighantu 5. 4-6.&lt;/ref&gt; The last of these seems to begin to tell us in what succession the Vedic gods appear on the stage day by day, especially in the morning.&lt;ref&gt;''Cf.'' Nirukta 12. 1. Brhaddevatā 2. 7 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; He begins well with the Açvins, or &quot;Horsemen&quot; (the Vedic Dioscuri),&lt;ref&gt;See below, p. 112.&lt;/ref&gt; Ushas, the Goddess Dawn, and Sūryā,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/108</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055623</id>
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      <id>15131457</id>
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      <text bytes="1285" sha1="iphvcmi10oqhz61etggel9nf3sd6xyj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|92|The Religion of the Veda|}}{{rule|10em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;end the later Vedic texts insist that Agni, &quot;Fire&quot; belongs to, or is typical of the earth; Vāta or Vāyu, &quot;Wind,&quot; of the mid-air, and Sūrya, &quot;Sun,&quot; of the sky.&lt;ref&gt;Cf. Brihaddevatā I. 5 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; So far it is the philosophy of the obvious. They continue cleverly along that line in the following arrangement. I state only the more important members of each class:

Celestial gods: Dyaus or Dyaush Pitar (&quot;Sky&quot; or &quot;Father Sky&quot;), Varuna, Mitra. Sūrya and the Ādityas, Savitar, Pūshan, Vishnu, Ushas, and the Açvins.&lt;ref&gt;See the index at the end of this book for these and most of the following gods.&lt;/ref&gt;

Atmospheric gods: Vāta or Vāyu (&quot;Wind&quot;) Indra, Parjanya, Rudra, and the Maruts.

Terrestrial gods: Prithivī (&quot;Earth&quot;), Agni, and Soma.

This threefold division, in order to be consistent, would have to be carried on to the end, so as to include all the gods. As a matter of fact it is uncertain in many places, even when carried no farther. We are not so certain as are the Hindus that Indra, for instance, is a god of the mid-air,&lt;ref&gt;See below, p. 173.&lt;/ref&gt; even though we must admire this, on the whole successful, appreciation of the place in nature that belongs to a goodly proportion of the chief gods.

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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/111</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055626</id>
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      <id>15131680</id>
      <parentid>12556221</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:11:26Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1427" sha1="ll898xgv20u42njxxeshftc1skyjeba" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Pantheon of the Veda|95}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tain amount of the complications and entanglements of human life must be imported into mythology before it becomes mythology. Otherwise it remains philosophy, primitive cosmic philosophy, or primitive empirical natural science.

Let me paraphrase a statement made some years ago in a learned journal.&lt;ref&gt;''Journal of the American Oriental Society,'' vol. xv., pp. 185, 186.&lt;/ref&gt; Mythological investigation must draw a sharp line between the primary attributes of a mythic personage which are the cause of the personification, and the attributes and events which are assigned to him or her, and are supposed to happen after the personification had been completed. Zeus, as we all know, originally meant &quot;sky,&quot; and Zeus pater was the personified &quot;Father Sky,&quot; contrasted with &quot;Mother Earth.&quot; But it would be foolish to search for these primary qualities of Zeus or the other Greek gods in a play of Euripides, where the gods are afflicted with all the passions and weaknesses of mortal men. Yet he who refuses to mythologise on the basis of Euripides' treatment need not therefore be sceptical about the naturalistic origin of most of the Greek gods; he may be willing at the right time, and in the right stage of the history of any myth, to point out the physical factors or the physical events which gave it a start. But to be present at the right time, that is not always so easy.

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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/114</title>
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      <text bytes="224" sha1="f2x9i2ribeiuvtjt1ga7rvl44dxm8ht" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|98|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;sacrificial hocus-pocus and poetic fable. And when the twilight has engulfed these gods, then, and not until then, in India as elsewhere, do real religion and real philosophy begin.

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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/115</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <parentid>12556225</parentid>
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      <text bytes="1369" sha1="4spvktarqb68lpf707bumxzj7880s3c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Srkris&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;LECTURE THE THIRD.

The Prehistoric Gods.

Two prehistoric periods bearing upon Hindu religion – Scepticism about Comparative Mythology-Difficulties in the way of Comparative Mythology – Comparative Mythology and Ethnology – The myth of Cerberus – The Indo-European period – Prehistoric words for god – Father Sky and Mother Earth – The Thunderer – -The Vedic Açvins, or &quot;Horsemen,&quot; the two Sons of Heaven – The Dioscuri in Greek mythology – The Lettish myth of the two &quot;Sons of God&quot; – Common kernel of the myth of the two &quot;Sons of Heaven&quot; – The Aryan, or Indo-Iranian period – Important religious ideas common to the two peoples – The dual gods Varuna and Mitra – Ahura Mazda and Varuna – The conception of ''ṛta,'' or &quot;cosmic order&quot; – The Ādityas – Aditi, the mother of the Ādityas – Mitra, a sun god – The sun, the moon, and the planets – The Ādityas and Amesha Spents – Early ethical concepts among the Indo-Europeans – Varuna and Greek Ouranos (Uranus) – The origin of man – Sundry parents of man – &quot;Father Manu&quot; – Yama and Yamī, the &quot;Twins&quot; – Interlacing of the myths of the first man – The human character of Manu and Yama – Yama, the god of the dead – Soma, the sacrificial drink of the gods – The myth of Soma and the Heavenly Eagle – Value of the preceding reconstructions.

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;c|99&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1372" sha1="7kpy1krhjovo7lp9gbdw5qpcjp6ohy2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Srkris&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;LECTURE THE THIRD.

The Prehistoric Gods.

Two prehistoric periods bearing upon Hindu religion – Scepticism about Comparative Mythology – Difficulties in the way of Comparative Mythology – Comparative Mythology and Ethnology – The myth of Cerberus – The Indo-European period – Prehistoric words for god – Father Sky and Mother Earth – The Thunderer – The Vedic Açvins, or &quot;Horsemen,&quot; the two Sons of Heaven – The Dioscuri in Greek mythology – The Lettish myth of the two &quot;Sons of God&quot; – Common kernel of the myth of the two &quot;Sons of Heaven&quot; – The Aryan, or Indo-Iranian period – Important religious ideas common to the two peoples – The dual gods Varuna and Mitra – Ahura Mazda and Varuna – The conception of ''ṛta,'' or &quot;cosmic order&quot; – The Ādityas – Aditi, the mother of the Ādityas – Mitra, a sun god – The sun, the moon, and the planets – The Ādityas and Amesha Spents – Early ethical concepts among the Indo-Europeans – Varuna and Greek Ouranos (Uranus) – The origin of man – Sundry parents of man – &quot;Father Manu&quot; – Yama and Yamī, the &quot;Twins&quot; – Interlacing of the myths of the first man – The human character of Manu and Yama – Yama, the god of the dead – Soma, the sacrificial drink of the gods – The myth of Soma and the Heavenly Eagle – Value of the preceding reconstructions.

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;c|99&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/116</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055631</id>
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      <id>15131637</id>
      <parentid>12556226</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:38:02Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1343" sha1="fim9bgls10t5ad9d8e3mk0z7r80baa9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Srkris&quot; /&gt;{{rh|100|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;THE treatment of India's prehistoric gods takes on of itself the outer form of a chapter of Comparative Mythology. We have seen in the past that the events which preceded the migration of the Aryas into India belong to two very different prehistoric periods.&lt;ref&gt;See above, p. 13.&lt;/ref&gt; One of these is the period when the Hindu and Iranian (Persian) peoples, the so-called Aryas, were still one people, a period which does not lie so very far behind the Veda itself, just behind the curtain which separates the earliest historical records of both India and Iran from the very long past which preceded both of them. This is the Indo-Iranian, or Aryan period. The second is the still remoter period of Indo-European unity; the languages, institutions, and religions of this great group of peoples permit us to assume that there was once upon a time one Indo-European people, and that this people possessed religious ideas which were not altogether obliterated from the minds of their descendants, the Indo-Europeans of historical times (Hindus, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Celts, Teutons, Slavs, etc.).

It is my painful duty to report that there has been of recent years a great &quot;slump&quot; in the stock of this subject. In fact, some scholars, critics, and publicists have formally declared bankruptcy against the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1414" sha1="nrvbd1pzbwml3dhdsw4aigm5wyy7wpw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|103}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;pardonably excessive zeal of its early friends. Since then the pruning knife has kept busy. At the present time this is a subject that should be handled very gingerly by all those who do not know how to winnow the chaff from the grain. But there still is Comparative Mythology, and it is here to stay.

There is yet another difficulty which should be rated at its right value, not too much and not too little. The primary object of the comparative mythology of the Indo-European peoples is to collect, compare, and sift the religious beliefs of these peoples, so as to determine what they owned as common property before their separation. What now, we hear it frequently asked, about the strange peoples, not Indo-European, nor Aryan, who share these beliefs with the Indo-Europeans or have similar beliefs? Without question, in the earlier stages of the science, similarities which were independent products in different quarters, due to the similar endowment of the human mind, were confused with genetic similarities. By genetic similarities I mean such similarities as transmitted mythological conceptions which were already in vogue among the prehistoric Indo-Europeans, so that they were continued, with later modifications, by the separate branches of the Indo-European peoples. Should not, therefore, this entire subject be handed over to those broader students of Ethnology&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/123</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055638</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131710</id>
      <parentid>12556233</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:46:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131710</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1413" sha1="eyddl6d30podcvqm76isb5iyr3x4wbv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|107}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;strayed into this sphere of conceptions without any organic mythological meaning, simply as a baying, hostile, watchdog in heaven or hell. We cannot therefore ignore the wonderful yet simple Indo-European myth which is begotten of high reason and keen appreciation of myth-making opportunity. Plainly, this myth requires no further explanation from the usually vague and half-understood analogies that may be found on the broad ground of universal Ethnology and Folk-lore. Far be it from me to suggest that mythological evidence, whencesoever obtainable, should be excluded from these deliberations: all I want to prevent is the importation of bad coal into Newcastle. Since the Indo-Europeans are one people, let us first study their own minds in their own literature or archeological remains, before turning to the Iroquois, the Papuas, or the inhabitants of the Alcutian Islands for sporadic reports that, more often than not, reach our ear out of their proper connection, or with their point bent. When the smoke shall have cleared there will be – of this I am certain – less airy reliance on ethnological quantities irrational in Indo-European mathematics. But there will be left a goodly stock of Indo-European divinities and simple myths, profoundly interesting, not only with the interest of hoary antiquity, but even more so because they determine and explain the main&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/124</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055639</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131701</id>
      <parentid>12556234</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:31:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
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      <origin>15131701</origin>
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      <text bytes="1403" sha1="7ioqeblj7hll78zkttm3hw5aa5m8bsf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|108|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;lines along which move the mythologies of the Indo-European peoples of historical times. The main substance, though by no means the entire substance, of the mythologies and religions of these peoples – this is as true to-day as it was in the days of Benfey, Kuhn and Müller – is the nature myth. If we count Brahmanical theosophy and Buddhism as the two great yields of the study of Hinduism, we may safely add Comparative Mythology as the third great field of religious history that has been opened out by the study of India. Had we but fuller records of ancient Indo-European history and literature, these fuller records would reveal more common myths and religious ideas. The added facts would fill in the necessarily sketchy picture, but it would still be the same picture.

We are by the limits of our plan restricted here to those religious ideas which concern the early religion of India, and even of these we shall select only the more important. We begin with the remoter of the two periods, the Indo-European period.

The universal Indo-European word for &quot;god&quot; was ''deivos,'' gone over into archaic Latin as ''deivos'' (''deus''), Celtic ''devos'' in the Gallic proper name ''Devognata,'' Old Scandinavian ''tivar,'' &quot;gods,&quot; Lithuanian ''divas,'' and Sanskrit ''devas.'' The irreproachable etymology which connects this word with the verb ''div, dyu,''&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7ioqeblj7hll78zkttm3hw5aa5m8bsf</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/125</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055640</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131698</id>
      <parentid>12556240</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:27:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
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      <origin>15131698</origin>
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      <text bytes="1492" sha1="9xczwpdvw9jbn3m99kz6cfqycptihu6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|109}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;shine,&quot; shows that the word came from the luminous manifestations of nature by day and night, and determines authoritatively the source from which the Indo-Europeans derived their first and most pervasive conception of divine power. On more limited Indo-European territory appears another general term, Slavic ''bogŭ,'' Old Persian ''baga'' Avestan ''bagha'' &quot;god,&quot; Sanskrit ''bhaga'' &quot;god of fortune.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;The &quot;Phrygian&quot; Zeus Bagaios reported by the Greek glossographer Hesychios is nothing but the Persian Baga; see the author in ''Transactions of the American Philological Association,'' vol. xxxv., p. xxxi.&lt;/ref&gt; The word is again of clear origin: it means spender of goods, or blessings.&quot; It contains the abstract conception of a good god, embodying an eternal and never slumbering wish of mankind. The same eastern region of the Indo-European territory has in common another sacred word, used as an attribute of divinity, namely, Avestan (Persian) ''spenta,'' Lithuanian ''szventas,'' Old Slavic ''svȩtŭ'' &quot;pure&quot; or &quot;holy.&quot; This secures for prehistoric religion an important spiritual concept. Two important conceptions expressing sentiment towards the gods, that of reverence (Sanskrit ''yaj,'' Avestan ''yaz,'' Greek ''άγ'' in ἅζομαι,&quot;revere&quot;), and that of belief (Sanskrit ''çraddha,'' Latin ''credo,'' Celtic ''cretim,'' &quot;believe&quot;) come from old times, though they need not necessarily have been in vogue in every part of the territory&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9xczwpdvw9jbn3m99kz6cfqycptihu6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131699</id>
      <parentid>15131698</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:28:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
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      <text bytes="1497" sha1="g078gg9ebqu037fbt969yx6e0j7mosa" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|109}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;shine,&quot; shows that the word came from the luminous manifestations of nature by day and night, and determines authoritatively the source from which the Indo-Europeans derived their first and most pervasive conception of divine power. On more limited Indo-European territory appears another general term, Slavic ''bogŭ,'' Old Persian ''baga'' Avestan ''bagha'' &quot;god,&quot; Sanskrit ''bhaga'' &quot;god of fortune.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;The &quot;Phrygian&quot; Zeus Bagaios reported by the Greek glossographer Hesychios is nothing but the Persian Baga; see the author in ''Transactions of the American Philological Association,'' vol. xxxv., p. xxxi.&lt;/ref&gt; The word is again of clear origin: it means spender of goods, or blessings.&quot; It contains the abstract conception of a good god, embodying an eternal and never slumbering wish of mankind. The same eastern region of the Indo-European territory has in common another sacred word, used as an attribute of divinity, namely, Avestan (Persian) ''spenta,'' Lithuanian ''szventas,'' Old Slavic ''svȩtŭ'' &quot;pure&quot; or &quot;holy.&quot; This secures for prehistoric religion an important spiritual concept. Two important conceptions expressing sentiment towards the gods, that of reverence (Sanskrit ''yaj,'' Avestan ''yaz,'' Greek ''άγ'' in ''ἅζομαι,'' &quot;revere&quot;), and that of belief (Sanskrit ''çraddha,'' Latin ''credo,'' Celtic ''cretim,'' &quot;believe&quot;) come from old times, though they need not necessarily have been in vogue in every part of the territory&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/128</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055643</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131665</id>
      <parentid>12556243</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:02:12Z</timestamp>
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        <username>8582e</username>
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      <text bytes="1388" sha1="2fogp3yljhz7xdt5tgqnuqaq7nuvcs7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|112|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and &quot;rejoices in lightning,&quot; or, &quot;twists the lightning&quot; (''τερπικέραυνος''). The Lithuanian Perkunas has absorbed the functions of Zeus and has become chief god. In the Veda also&lt;ref&gt;Rig-Veda 5. 83. 6.&lt;/ref&gt; Parjanya is called &quot;Father Asura,&quot; making him for the moment the double of Father Sky, the Asura. In another passage he is even more directly identified with Dyaus.&lt;ref&gt;Divaḥ parjanyād antarikshāt pṛthivyāḥ. Vājasaneyi Sanhitā, 18, 55 ''et al.''&lt;/ref&gt;

The Veda has a pair of twin gods, known as the &quot;two Horsemen&quot; (''açvin''). They are frequently called &quot;Sons of Heaven&quot; (''divo napātā''). Of all Vedic divinities they have the most pronounced mythical and legendary character. They put in their appearance regularly in the morning, along with other divinities of morning light. A maiden by the name of Sūryā, that is &quot;Sun-Maiden,&quot; or daughter of Sūrya, that is &quot;Daughter of the Sun,&quot; is captivated by the youthful beauty of the Açvins, chooses them for her husbands, and ascends their chariot that is drawn by birds. A different yet related touch is added to their character in a riddlesome brief story&lt;ref&gt;Told in Rig-Veda 10. 17. 1, 2; see the author in ''Journal of the American Oriental Society,'' vol. xv., p. 172 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; which furnishes them with another female relation, namely, a mother by the name&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/129</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055644</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132587</id>
      <parentid>12556244</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:08:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
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      <text bytes="1389" sha1="9gh0goi3pm396xhgndy5cicob8r4kwb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|113}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of Saranyū. And, once more, with considerable deviation, they figure in a heavenly marriage in which they themselves are not the principals. They are the wooers in a marriage which their own bride Sūryā, according to a later view, enters into with Soma, the Moon. The specific use of the Açvins is that they are the most reliable helpers in need. The hymns harp persistently upon the fact that all sorts of men and women have in the past appealed to them for aid, and have not been disappointed.&lt;ref&gt;See Macdonell, ''Vedic Mythology,'' p. 51 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; Even animals are helped or cured by them. In one instance they perform a cure calculated to make green with envy even the most skilled of modern veterinary surgeons, if by any chance he should hear of it. When the racing mare Viçpalā breaks a leg they put an iron one in its place: with that she handily wins the race.&lt;ref&gt;See Pischel, ''Vedische Studien,'' vol. i., p. 171 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt;

Even the most stalwart sceptics in this field have not found it in their hearts to deny the connection of these divinities and their female relative with the Dioscuri, the &quot;Sons of Zeus,&quot; Castor and Pollux (Poludeukes), and their sister Helena. The name of the Açvins' mother Saranyū may, according to a suggestion of Professor E. W. Fay, in its first two syllables contain the sound for sound equivalent&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/134</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055649</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132613</id>
      <parentid>8396231</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:33:30Z</timestamp>
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        <username>8582e</username>
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      <text bytes="1433" sha1="5abyxpdwmhtzexwp6b0ri8rc2z0t8jd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|118|The Religion of the Ved}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;two peoples, the Hindus and the Iranians.&lt;ref&gt;See above, p. 13.&lt;/ref&gt; Separated only by a chain of mountains, they are entirely unconscious of the close relationship of their languages, literatures, and religions. Nowhere in the Veda is there the slightest knowledge of the Avesta; nowhere is the Avesta conscious that there is going on across the Himālaya Mountains in India an intense and characteristic religious development which started with a good many of the same primitive beliefs as were absorbed by the religion of Zoroaster, As time went by the religions of the two peoples became about as different as it is possible for religions of civilised peoples to be. On the one side, Parsism or Zoroastrianism, molded by the mind of a single prophet, Zarathushtra, or Zoroaster: a dualistic religion, believing in God and Satan; an ethical, optimistic, but at the bottom really unphilsophical religion; yet sufficient, as the modern Parsis show, to guide a people into a very superior form of life. On the other side, higher Hinduism, monistic, pessimistic, and speculative; without real leadership, except that which is present in the own spirit of each individual bent upon finding the way out of a hated round of existences through a keen conviction that there is only one fundamental truth, the Brahma in the universe and in one's self; that, consequently, this world of things is illusory,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/135</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055650</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132393</id>
      <parentid>8396232</parentid>
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      <text bytes="1477" sha1="fh04fahg9lfu6rc7put5xapzln8zd4c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|119}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and must be discarded in order to release from existence.

But these two religions began at approximately the same point, and they continue with enough of the same materials to make the study of each in some measure dependent upon the other. We are here concerned with the Vedic side only. A very considerable number of important Vedic divinities, religious conceptions, and sacred institutions belong to this common Aryan period.&lt;ref&gt;See, Spiegel, ''Die Arische Periode;'' Darmestetter, ''Sacred Books of the East,'' iv., p. lvi, ''ff''; Oldenberg, ''Die Religion des Veda,'' pp. 26 ''ff.,'' 341 ''ff''; Hillebrandt, ''Rituallitteratur,'' p. 11, and the bibliographic notes there given; Macdonell, ''Vedic Mythology,'' p. 7 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; Their sphere is enlarged, their meaning better defined, and their chronology shifted across long periods of time, if we keep our eye on the Avesta. Of course we must not neglect to allow for the process of recoining which these ideas have passed through in India. In a certain sense every prehistoric religious idea that has managed to survive and to emerge in India has become Hindu; not the least fascinating part of these researches is to show just how the spirit of India nationalises or individualises the ideas that were born on a different soil.

Two spheres of Vedic ideas and practices concern us here in a particular degree. The first is the sphere of the great Vedic god Varuna, his dual partner&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/138</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055653</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132876</id>
      <parentid>8396235</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:36:43Z</timestamp>
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        <username>8582e</username>
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      <text bytes="1353" sha1="e5d7n371r997nul0worpqvoodv5rnp2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|122|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;light, earth, and all that is good. He was the first progenitor, the first father of divine order. He made a way for the sun and the stars. It is he that causes the moon to grow or wane.&lt;ref&gt;Yasna 37. 1; 44. 3.&lt;/ref&gt; As guardian of divine order Ahura is not to be deceived, does not sleep; he sees all human deeds, overt or covert.&lt;ref&gt;Yasna 31. 13; 43. 6; 45. 4; Vendidad 19-20. ''Cf.'' Oldenberg in ''Journal of the German Oriental Society,'' vol. I, p. 48.&lt;/ref&gt;

The Veda describes Varuna in the same spirit, at times in almost the same words. He is the supporter of beings; he has spread the atmosphere over the forests; has put fleetness into the steed, and milk into the cows. He has placed intelligence into the heart, fire into the waters, the sun upon the sky, the ''soma''-plant upon the mountains. He has opened a path for the sun; the floods of the rivers hasten seaward like racers obeying the divine order.&lt;ref&gt;Rig-Veda 5. 85. 2; 87, 1; 8. 41. 5.&lt;/ref&gt; Even more pointed than Ahura's is the expression of Varuna's omniscience and undeceivableness: he sees all the past and all the future; he is present as a third wherever two men secretly scheme; his spies do not close their eyes.

The hymn Atharva-Veda 4. 16 presents a rugged picture of Varuna in his rôle of omniscient and omnipotent god:

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1291" sha1="9owyvcqefunmjks8krcdeqlf06hw5t3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|123}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{blockquote/s}}
&quot;The great guardian among these gods sees as if from anear. He that thinketh he is moving stealthily – all this the gods know.

&quot;Whoso stands, walks, or sneaks about, and whoso goes slinking off, whoso runs to cover; – if two sit together and scheme, King Varuna is there as the third and knows it.

&quot;Both this earth here belongs to King Varuna and also yonder broad sky, whose bounds are far away. The two oceans are Varuna's loins; yea, in this petty drop of water is he hidden.

&quot;Whoso should flee beyond the heavens far away would yet not be free from King Varuna. From the sky his spies come hither; with a thousand eyes they do watch over the earth.

&quot;All this King Varuna does behold – what is between the two firmaments, what beyond. Numbered of him are the winkings of men's eyes. As a (winning) gamester puts down the dice, thus does he establish these (laws).&quot;
{{blockquote/e}}

Another hymn, Rig-Veda 7. 86, depicts Varuna as guardian of moral order, hence angry at the misdeeds of men. The contrite attitude of his suppliant, a singer of the family of the Vasishthas, the authors of the seventh book of the Rig-Veda, has a strong Hebraic flavor, and, like the preceding hymn, suggests many a passage of the Psalms:

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/144</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055659</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131469</id>
      <parentid>8396242</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:46:21Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1459" sha1="oekzd79cia91bwjsb5s6gmrd2xk6gec" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|128|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;fire, is &quot;scion of the ''ṛta,''&quot; or &quot;first-born of the ''ṛta.''&quot; He performs his work with ''ṛta,'' carries oblations to the gods &quot;on the path of ''ṛta.''&quot; Prayers, lowing like cattle, &quot;longing for the ''soma''-drink,&quot; take effect in accordance with ''ṛta.''&lt;ref&gt;Rig-Veda 9. 94. 2.&lt;/ref&gt; A figure of speech, bold to the point of grotesqueness, turns prayer into &quot;''ṛta-''fluid, distilled by the tongue.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Ibid., 9. 75. 2.&lt;/ref&gt; Holy sacrifice, in distinction from foul magic, is performed with ''ṛta'': &quot;I call upon the gods, undefiled by witchcraft. With ''ṛta'' I perform my work, carry out my thought.&quot; Thus exclaims a poctic mind conscious of its own rectitude.&lt;ref&gt;Ibid., 7. 34. 8.&lt;/ref&gt;

Finally in man's activity the ''ṛta'' manifests itself as the moral law. Here it takes by the hand the closely kindred idea of truth, ''satya.'' Untruth, on the other hand, is ''anṛta,'' more rarely ''asatya,'' the same two words with prefix of negation. The two words ''satya'' and ''anṛta'' form a close dual compound, &quot;truth and lie,&quot; &quot;sincerity and falsehood,&quot; both zealously watched over by God Varuna.&lt;ref&gt;Ibid., 7. 49. 3.&lt;/ref&gt; They remain the standard words for these twin opposites for all Hindu time. Varuna is the real trustee of the ''ṛta.'' When God Agni struggles towards the ''ṛta'' he is said in a remarkable passage to become for the time being God Varuna.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Ibid., 10. 8. 5.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/145</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055660</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131498</id>
      <parentid>8396243</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:02:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
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      <text bytes="1349" sha1="6lwp2jaghhw5g4yy3s4aby67sc5oa1n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|129}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Truth and lie include, by an easy transition, right and wrong-doing. In a famous hymn&lt;ref&gt;Rig-Veda 10. 10.&lt;/ref&gt; Yamī (Eve) invites Yama (Adam) to incestuous intercourse. Mythically speaking this is, of course, unavoidable: they are the first pair, and there are no other human beings whatsoever. But the poet conceives of the situation in the spirit of his own time. When Yamī pretends to justify the act Yama exclaims pithily: &quot;In saying the ''ṛta'' we shall really say the ''anṛta,''&quot; which, rendered more broadly, means to say: &quot;When we pretend to justify the act as being ''ṛta,'' 'right-doing,' we really shall knowingly engage in ''anṛta,'' 'wrong-doing.'&quot; We may imagine Yama finally saying: &quot;Anyhow, don't let us beat the devil about the stump!&quot;

Varuna and Mitra, the dual pair, are implicated still further in a group of divinities of the name ''āditya.'' The number of these gods is very uncertain. Sometimes it is three: Mitra and Varuna, with Aryaman as third. This third god, no less than the first two, is Indo-Iranian: the name of Aryaman's Avestan counterpart is Airyama. The name of this not too determinate god seems to mean &quot;comrade&quot;; accordingly Aryaman figures in the Veda as the typical groomsman at the wedding rites. Beyond this triad the name ''āditya'' becomes very indefinite,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/146</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055661</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131510</id>
      <parentid>8396244</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:08:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
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      <origin>15131510</origin>
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      <text bytes="1356" sha1="gs5yfi06k8u5rs2xqvtph2mdo92m5rr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|130|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;both as to number and the individuals which it is supposed to harbor. As regards number, the god Indra sometimes swells the three to four. Then there is seven, a favourite and vague number; to this the legendary Mārtānda&lt;ref&gt;See Macdonell, ''Vedic Mythology,'' p. 43.&lt;/ref&gt; (Indra) is at times added as eighth. In later times the number rises to twelve. Not more than six are ever mentioned by name outright in the Veda: Bhaga, Daksha, and Ança in addition to the three mentioned above. Bhaga, Fortune,&quot; is not only Indo-Iranian, but even Indo-European, as we have seen.&lt;ref&gt;Above, p. 109.&lt;/ref&gt; Ança, &quot;Portion,&quot; &quot;Apportioner,&quot; is a very faint abstraction. And so is Daksha, &quot;Dexterity,&quot; &quot;Cleverness.&quot;

Now the Veda conceives of the Ādityas as the descendants of a feminine Aditi who cuts a considerable figure as a very abstract female, suggesting the ideas of &quot;freedom from fetters,&quot; &quot;freedom from guilt,&quot; &quot;boundlessness,&quot; and &quot;universe.&quot; She is finally identified in the Hindu mind with &quot;earth.&quot; A father who might be responsible for the offspring of this interesting lady is never mentioned. We are struck first of all with the fact that Aditi, the mother, a purely Hindu product, is obviously younger than her own sons, the best of whom are at least as old as the Indo-Iranian period. I have, for my part little&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gs5yfi06k8u5rs2xqvtph2mdo92m5rr</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/148</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055663</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131437</id>
      <parentid>8396246</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:32:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
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      <text bytes="1322" sha1="sw5t1mvrkr4w838fax530x340ry28pg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|132|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;myth of Varuna and the Ādityas. The interpretation of Aditi as &quot;boundlessness,&quot; or &quot;universe,&quot; sits very well upon an assumed mother of these great gods. Aditi is later deﬁned as &quot;earth,&quot; a narrowing of her scope, somewhat as we of the modern languages make synonymous the terms &quot;world&quot; and &quot;earth.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;See the author in ''Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenländischen Gesellschaft,'' xlviii., 552, note; Macdonell, ''Vedic Mythology,'' p. 125.&lt;/ref&gt;

The mythic cycle represented by Mitra-Mithra and Varuna-Ahura is important for early Vedic religion, and, more permanently, for the whole history of Persian religion. There is no chapter of Aryan religion and mythology that has stimulated the instinct of ultimate interpretation more persistently than this very one. I am of those who cannot imagine any cessation of these attempts for any great length of time. The one solid point in. the genesis of these myths is the solar character of the Aryan Mitra. In later Persian the word ''mithra'' in the form ''mihir'' is the name of the sun. As previously stated,&lt;ref&gt;Above, p. 85.&lt;/ref&gt; this solar Mithras passed, in the centuries after Christ, out of the bounds of Persia and started upon a career of conquest which threatened at one time to subject all Western civilisation.

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/149</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055664</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132703</id>
      <parentid>8396247</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:31:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
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      <text bytes="1366" sha1="j7837od148xf1yk8y4p4igy1q2e1bat" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|133}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Now what is the natural origin of that other partner in the dual partnership, namely, Vedic Varuna the Asura, Avestan Ahura Mazda? Not very many years ago Professor Oldenberg advanced and defended ingeniously the hypothesis&lt;ref&gt;See his latest treatment of the matter in ''Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenländischen Gesellschaft,'' vol. l., p. 43 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; that Varuna is the Moon, and this theory he did not hesitate to follow to a very logical conclusion. Mitra and Varuna are Sun and Moon. They are members, as we have seen, in a group of gods called Ādityas. Oldenberg chooses, perhaps a little hastily, the number seven as the sum total of this group.&lt;ref&gt;See above, p. 129.&lt;/ref&gt; Similarly in the Avesta, Ahura is accompanied by the so-called &quot;Immortal Holy Ones,&quot; the Amesha Spents, the angels of the Puritan Zoroastrian faith. They also make up the number seven. Mithra, we may note, is altogether absent from the Avestan arrangement. Now Oldenberg believes not only that Varuna and Mitra were the Moon and the Sun, but that the Ādityas, essentially identical with the Amesha Spents, were the planets. He assumes still further that the whole set, originally, were not Indo-European divinities at all, but that they were borrowed by the Aryans from a Shemitic people – presumably the Babylonians – far enough advanced&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/150</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055665</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132722</id>
      <parentid>8396249</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:40:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
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      <text bytes="1332" sha1="qe0liv25ek2retz66fsln2pit30aj40" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|134|The Religion of Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;in astronomical knowledge to observe the interrelations of sun, moon, and the planets.

The Ādityas and the Amesha Spents have been compared often, perhaps over-confidently. It is not necessary, in order to feel unconvinced by Professor Oldenberg's chain of consequences, to deny a certain nebulous cluster of ancillary or subsidiary divinities which hovered about the persons of the supreme Indo-Iranian twin-gods Ahura-Mithra, Varuna-Mitra. As a matter of fact the Amesha Spents are not the Ādityas. I do not believe that the Ādityas, indefinite in number and gradual in their development în India, represent that cluster, or even its very gradual Hindu substitutes. Several Ādityas, notably Mitra, Bhaga, and Aryaman recur in the Avesta, but are not listed as Amesha Spents. Either Macdonell's or my own hypothesis&lt;ref&gt;See above, p. 131.&lt;/ref&gt; as to the origin of the Ādityas presupposes that their origin as a class of gods is gradual and secondary. The Amesha Spents, on the other hand, are sheer abstractions. I confess that there is not in me the faith to see in them anything as concrete as personified planets. The mere names of the &quot;Immortal Holy Ones&quot; show what I mean. They are: Vohu Manah, &quot;Good Mind&quot;; Asha Vahishta, &quot;Best Righteousness&quot;; Khshathra Vairya, &quot;Wished-for Kingdom,&quot; or&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/151</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055666</id>
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      <id>15132740</id>
      <parentid>8396250</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:47:21Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1341" sha1="8b61l0w0gmtzytxkv07on9ny9ioozq1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|135}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;Good Kingdom&quot;; Spenta Armaiti, &quot;Holy Harmony&quot;; Haurvatāt, &quot;Soundness,&quot; &quot;Health&quot;; and Ameretat, &quot;Immortality.&quot; It is a beautiful, heavenly hierarchy, but it is unmythological, non-naturalistic to the bone. If anywhere, then here is the place where sprang up purely symbolic gods in the manner of the symbolic creations in Bunyan's ''Pilgrim's Progress.''

As for the Shemitic source of this deified solar system, Professor Oldenberg, if I understand him aright, is in part led thereto by the striking ethical character which is manifested by the gods of this group at so early a period of Indo-European history as is the common period of Persia and India. He thinks that the Shemites preceded the Indo-Europeans in the evolution of ethical concepts, and that the ethical coloring of the Ahura-Varuna myth came along with the divinities themselves. But, as I have shown, we find the chief Aryan ethical concept, the ''ṛta,'' safely imbedded in the Persian dynastic Arta-names that are reported in the Cuneiform Tel-el-Amarna tablets, 1600 years B.C. Now that date lies far back of the period from which Professor Oldenberg would deduce his results. I should prefer to judge that the wide prevalence of this idea at a very early date shows rather that some, if not all, Indo-Europeans had advanced in ethical&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/152</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055667</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131787</id>
      <parentid>8396251</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:44:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131787</origin>
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      <text bytes="1412" sha1="qbfyb8s6lnhooh6n28erwwwlqzot5xu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Srkris&quot; /&gt;{{rh|136|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;perception at an earlier date than has hitherto been suspected, at a date when the Shemites had not as yet evolved any ethical ideas of quite as fine a flavor as the ''ṛta.''

Professor Oldenberg is not the only scholar to
whom Varuna has suggested the moon. Yet I think
that this interpretation, when taken outside of that
hypothesis which involves the entire solar system,
has not very much in its favor beyond the close
dualic connection of Varuna with Mitra, the sun. I
confess, moreover, that I am not quite willing to
listen to any interpretation of this god which leaves
out in the cold Greek ''Οὐρανός.'' There has been
some phonetic scepticism about the equation
''varuṇas=οὐρανός'' which time has not justified. Greek
oupavós is Indo-European noru-ṇnos or noru-enos;
Sanskrit ''varunas'' is Indo-European uoru-nos. The
two forms differ no more than, for instance, Vedic ''nūtanas'' and ''nūtnas,'' &quot;recent,&quot; or Greek ''στεγανός'' and ''στεγνός,'' &quot;covered.&quot; Here is a situation met with quite often in this kind of inquiry. The interpretation of the myth is, as usual, not quite certain. Few interpretations of advanced myths are quite certain. Next, the etymology, like that of many etymologies of mythic proper names, likewise brings with it no bonded guaranty. The next step is, that they who do not believe in the interpre-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/153</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055668</id>
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      <id>15132772</id>
      <parentid>8396252</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:52:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
        <id>2903218</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1319" sha1="qyy5nieg2wwwm4ik0w365iw56aqpy8z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Srkris&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|137}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tation are prone to belittle the etymology. But there is little gain in pooh-poohing an etymology which will not stay pooh-poohed. The time will never be when any interpretation that disregards this obvious comparison will pass current free from perplexity and misgivings. All settlements that do not regard it will be temporary and doomed in the end to be repudiated. It would seem to me that we must accept this important etymology, and submit to its guidance. It shows that Varuna belongs not only to the Indo-Iranian (Aryan) time, but reaches back to the Indo-European time, and that he represents, on the impeccable testimony of ''οὐρανός,'' some aspect of the heavens, probably the encompassing sky, in accordance with the stem ''uoru'' which is its essential element. Rig-Veda 8. 41. 3 states that Varuna, the distinguished god, embraces the all, and Rig-Veda 1. 50. 6 states that Mitra (the sun) is the eye of Varuna. The dualism of Heaven and its eye, the sun, is not less well taken than the dualism sun and moon.

Into the gusty discussion which has grown up in a particular degree around this point of interpretation I would lead my hearers no farther. There is perhaps not a single point in the comparative study of this most important sphere of Aryan religion which&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/157</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055672</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131691</id>
      <parentid>8396256</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:15:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>8582e</username>
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      <text bytes="1386" sha1="aexq6oa0tc93ng5ncgein8tlbrdtl3m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Prehistoric Gods|141}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Adam. She is, however, not Yama's bone, but his independent, self-poised sister. As a truthful historian I have been compelled to record that Yamī, like Eve, was the prime mover in the nefarious but necessary act of peopling the world.

Both Manu and Yama are primarily nothing but first men. Yama's father Vivasvant is probably primarily the sun, whose divine character is, however, at that time quite completely forgotten: old as is this affiliation it is probably not original, because the first twins, Yama and Yamī, are in reality an attempt to beg the question of the origin of the human race altogether. The descent of man from the sun represents another start towards solving the difficulty; of course this conception must and does blend with the Yama pair. In the same way Manu begins quite early to adopt Vivasvant for his father, and he remains so for all time. The myths begin to interlace very much, and to sprout shoots in unexpected directions. A famous pair of riddle-stanzas, Rig-Veda 10. 17. 1 and 2, expand the theme in an interesting fashion, according to an interpretation which I have proposed&lt;ref&gt;''Journal of the American Oriental Society,'' xv., 172 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt;: it is worth while to present it as an extreme example of the blend of original mythic roots into a real myth:

Tvashtar, the creator, offers his daughter Saranyū&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/176</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="1305" sha1="0taatypx7mp7wzegxu2u5lw0mfef1kp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Srkris&quot; /&gt;{{rh|160|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;supposed to lift daily the eternally youthful sun to
the sky to furnish light to the people.'

Such is his cosmic aspect in the morning. On the
other hand his ritualistic character betrays itself in his
epithet usharbudh, which means &quot;waking at dawn.&quot;
We have seen before that he is also regarded as the
son of Dawn. All this emphasises the opening of
the sacrificial day, ushered in by the Goddess Dawn,
God Agni, and the gods that wake in the morning
and come in the morning, like the Açvins and
others.

Every morning Agni is produced anew for the
sacrifice; this secures for him the appropriate epithet
&quot;the youngest.&quot; On the other hand he is the same
old Agni, and now comes a good deal of playful or
mystic handling of this paradox. His new births are
contrasted with his old; having grown old he is
born again as a youth. Thus it happens that he
is called &quot;ancient&quot; and &quot;very young&quot; in the same
passage; the Vedic poets delight in this kind of
mental see-saw. The mystery is shallow; what is
meant is, that the vigorous life of the present-day
Agni recalls his traditional importance in the past.
There is no sacrificer older than Agni, for he con-
ducted the first sacrifice. Just as he flames up to-
1 &lt;ref&gt;Rig-Veda 10. 156. 4.&lt;/ref&gt;
2 &lt;ref&gt;Above, p. 73.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15132540</id>
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      <text bytes="1314" sha1="dr40xfmkuaf2w1ndeovl65vjamhziq4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|160|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;supposed to lift daily the eternally youthful sun to the sky to furnish light to the people.&lt;ref&gt;Rig-Veda 10. 156. 4.&lt;/ref&gt;

Such is his cosmic aspect in the morning. On the other hand his ritualistic character betrays itself in his epithet ''usharbudh,'' which means &quot;waking at dawn.&quot; We have seen before that he is also regarded as the son of Dawn.&lt;ref&gt;Above, p. 73.&lt;/ref&gt; All this emphasises the opening of the sacrificial day, ushered in by the Goddess Dawn, God Agni, and the gods that wake in the morning and come in the morning, like the Açvins and others.

Every morning Agni is produced anew for the sacrifice; this secures for him the appropriate epithet &quot;the youngest.&quot; On the other hand he is the same old Agni, and now comes a good deal of playful or mystic handling of this paradox. His new births are contrasted with his old; having grown old he is born again as a youth. Thus it happens that he is called &quot;ancient&quot; and &quot;very young&quot; in the same passage; the Vedic poets delight in this kind of mental see-saw. The mystery is shallow; what is meant is, that the vigorous life of the present-day Agni recalls his traditional importance in the past. There is no sacrificer older than Agni, for he conducted the first sacrifice. Just as he flames up {{hws|to|to-day}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/177</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132536</id>
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      <text bytes="1375" sha1="k19grti7rvhk6xuzn99xwfyfhgpxn1b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||Transparent and Opaque Gods|161}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;day at dawn so he shone forth under the auspices of former dawns at the sacrifice of many a great forefather: Bharata, or Vadhryaçva; Divodāsa, or Trasadasyu.

After having been kindled Agni is placed upon the altar or, if we trust the testimony of the ritual texts of the Veda, upon three altars.&lt;ref&gt;''Cf.'' Rig-Veda 2. 36. 4; 5. 11. 2; 10. 105. 9.&lt;/ref&gt; Fagots are now piled on, fat oblations are poured in; he waxes big; his tongues, three, or seven, shoot up; he has four eyes, or a thousand eyes – both things mean that he is sharp-sighted; his jaws are sharp; and his teeth shine golden, or his iron grinders clutch. Then the figure is changed: he is flame-haired, tawny-haired, tawny-bearded; his glowing head faces in all directions. Ghee, or melted butter, is his food: he is therefore called ghee-backed, ghee-faced, ghee-haired. Once, even more boldly, Agni himself says, ghee is his eye. This is the point where Agni begins to take on a little more of the flesh and blood of personality upon the skeleton of his elemental qualities. For he receives the offerings neither passively nor selfishly. At as late a time as that of the great Epic, the Mahābhārata&lt;ref&gt;1. 7. 7. ''ff'' = 917 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; he is made to say: &quot;The ghee that is poured into my mouth, in the way prescribed in the Veda, nourishes the Gods and the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132539</id>
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      <text bytes="1390" sha1="q9apktd6qe1rjy5b515oagoa3eg5kv9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||Transparent and Opaque Gods|161}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|day|to-day}} at dawn so he shone forth under the auspices of former dawns at the sacrifice of many a great forefather: Bharata, or Vadhryaçva; Divodāsa, or Trasadasyu.

After having been kindled Agni is placed upon the altar or, if we trust the testimony of the ritual texts of the Veda, upon three altars.&lt;ref&gt;''Cf.'' Rig-Veda 2. 36. 4; 5. 11. 2; 10. 105. 9.&lt;/ref&gt; Fagots are now piled on, fat oblations are poured in; he waxes big; his tongues, three, or seven, shoot up; he has four eyes, or a thousand eyes – both things mean that he is sharp-sighted; his jaws are sharp; and his teeth shine golden, or his iron grinders clutch. Then the figure is changed: he is flame-haired, tawny-haired, tawny-bearded; his glowing head faces in all directions. Ghee, or melted butter, is his food: he is therefore called ghee-backed, ghee-faced, ghee-haired. Once, even more boldly, Agni himself says, ghee is his eye. This is the point where Agni begins to take on a little more of the flesh and blood of personality upon the skeleton of his elemental qualities. For he receives the offerings neither passively nor selfishly. At as late a time as that of the great Epic, the Mahābhārata&lt;ref&gt;1. 7. 7. ''ff'' = 917 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; he is made to say: &quot;The ghee that is poured into my mouth, in the way prescribed in the Veda, nourishes the Gods and the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/191</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132465</id>
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      <text bytes="1429" sha1="325e9fvjortowlw0lc70z794qredz76" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||Transparent and Opaque Gods|175}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;He slays dragons and monsters; he is the typical slayer of the foes of the pious sacrificer. To these deeds of heroic valor he is stimulated by immense potations of intoxicating ''soma.'' In order to accomplish the slaughter of the arch-dragon Vritra he drank on one occasion three lakes of that delightful beverage, so that decidedly he had a jag on, which, it has been noted, rhymes well with dragon. Accordingly he has a tremendous body, strong jaws and lips. He is tawny-haired and bearded, carries a club in his hand, and fights on a chariot drawn by two bay steeds. In general the Vedic poets cannot be accused of coarseness; yet it seems that, in this instance, they were irresistibly attracted by the mighty deeds of this, &quot;Lord of Strength,&quot; as they call him. This is probably owing to the fact that he is felt to be the national hero of the Aryan invaders in their struggles against the dark-skinned aborigines, whom they must overcome in order to hold possession of the land which they invaded. And nations are never coarser than when they put their own nationality into antagonism against another nation. In a recent war, familiar to all of us, a prominent warrior on the side of the stronger nation expressed his consuming desire to make, by his own valorous deeds, the language of the weaker nation the vernacular of Hades. This is the spirit of the worship of Indra.

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/192</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055708</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132468</id>
      <parentid>8396293</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:11:19Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1379" sha1="ff47q4g9r9k9gvmzwcdlxxwh58w589r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|176|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;But it would be a mistake to suppose that Indra is a mere coarse embodiment of the jingo valor of a superior race exercised against a weak enemy fated to subjection. Indra's character is not even translucent, that is, we can no longer define his origin with certainty, but there is no doubt that he originated somewhere in visible nature. The difficulty is to tell where. To begin with, there is no belittling the fact that Indra's origin is prehistoric. His name occurs in the Avesta (Andra) where, as is often the case with earlier Aryan divinities, he is degraded to a demon. But his chief Vedic epithet, Vritrahan, &quot;Slayer of Vritra,&quot; is the same name as that of the abstract genius of Victory, Verethraghna in the Avesta, and the Armenian dragon slayer Vahagn.&lt;ref&gt;See Hillebrandt, ''Vedische Mythologie,'' vol. iii., p. 188 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; On the other hand there is no real Indra literature outside of India. If then we are forced to turn to India in order to explain Indra, we must not forget that his origin is outside of India and precedes Hindu history.

The following specimen, Rig-Veda i. 32, is done into prose, rather than into metre, in order to show clearly how Indra and his principal exploit, namely, the slaughter of the dragon Vritra and the liberation of the waters, really presents itself to the mind of the poets:

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/194</title>
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      <id>15132474</id>
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      <text bytes="1365" sha1="6fjpbss0l0n505acmhbws8ff9v6hwi8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|178|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;myth whose three elements bring with them three questions: First, what are the waters? Secondly, who is Vritra that shuts them in? Thirdly, who is Indra that liberates them after a struggle that puts him so very much on his mettle? Hindu tradition, commentators and later classical Sanskrit literature, has always had an unhesitating answer: The waters are rain; Vritra is the cloud that shuts them off from the earth; Indra, therefore, is the storm or thunder god that rends the clouds with his lightning bolt and frees their waters. This interpretation, at first sight thoroughly sensible and most satisfactorily suggestive, was for a good while held to be good by most western students of the Veda and Comparative Mythology. The trouble with it turned out to be that the Veda has the real storm and rain god Parjanya,&lt;ref&gt;See above, p. 111.&lt;/ref&gt; and that the hymns addressed to him describe thunder-storms in language that is very different, and cannot be mistaken for anything else than the phenomena of the thunder-storm. The sober facts of the Indra-Vritra myth are as follows: A god armed with a bolt fights a dragon or serpent who holds the rivers in confinement within the mountains. He kills the dragon, cleaves the mountains. The rivers flow from the mountains to the sea. Thus the texts: there is nothing to show that&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/195</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132476</id>
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      <text bytes="1355" sha1="9u5t8vijg339ju14garqbmtur0erexw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||Transparent and Opaque Gods|179}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the mountains mean clouds, and the rivers the flow of rain.

After such and other premonitory symptoms of scepticism and unrest, Professor Hillebrandt has recently advanced a new theory of Indra, Vritra, and the waters, which he expounds with great ingenuity and learning.&lt;ref&gt;See Hillebrandt, ''Vedische Mythologie,'' vol. iii., p. 157 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt; He argues that the streams of India and the neighboring Iranian countries are at their lowest level in the winter; that the confiner of their waters is the frozen winter, conceived as a winter monster by the name of Vritra, &quot;confiner;&quot; that Vritra holds captive the rivers on the heights of the glacier mountains; and that, consequently, Indra can be no other than the spring or summer sun who frees them from the clutches of the winter dragon: &quot;Behold, in winter's chain sleeps the song of the waterfall under the dungeon roof of crystal ice!&quot; So sings a Swedish poet, Count Snoilsky. And another Swedish poet, Andreas Aabel, rings out the antistrophe: &quot;Hear the mountains proud cascade! Just now it has broken winter's check and prison, and now it courses free along its road!&quot;&lt;ref&gt;See ''ibid,'' p. 187.&lt;/ref&gt;

Now it is true that the emergence of spring from winter is sometimes treated poetically as a battle. We can understand this much better in a north coun-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/198</title>
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      <id>15132554</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:41:15Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1303" sha1="daxc4005mn2nytshs9nl6plqvdsb5da" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Srkris&quot; /&gt;{{rh|182|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Indo-Persian time from which, if not from a still earlier time, dates their beginning. If these earlier data should by any chance ever show Indra and Vritra in the mutual relation of summer and winter, then Hillebrandt's hypothesis, and I fear not until then, would be triumphantly vindicated.

RELIGIOUS CONCEPTIONS AND RELIGIOUS FEELING IN THE VEDA.

The religion of the Rig-Veda, as we have seen, is in its most superficial aspect a priestly religion of works designed to propitiate and to barter with personal gods. The outer form in which it presents itself is as poetry of the sacrifice. The sacrifice with its ceremonial formalities is, as I have ventured to say, the epidermis of Vedic religion. In its next layer the religion of the Veda is expressed in hymnal worship of the same personal gods who get the offerings. Whatever we may say about the origin of these gods, one by one, they are to the Hindu conception for the most part related to the visible and audible forces of nature. Nature in its larger aspect, cosmic nature, is the prime source of inspiration of the Vedic religious hard, just as it was the inspiration of his prehistoric Aryan and Indo-European ancestors. The conception of nature and the nature gods, notwithstanding many erudities, is&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/226</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2055742</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131673</id>
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      <text bytes="1470" sha1="kjyho63kqk02m0dc9nxqs5srmlmr11x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|210|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Atharva-Veda it even shows signs of at least temporary going to seed.&lt;ref&gt;Some stanzas of the Atharvan occupy the most advanced position of the Upanishads. For instance, 10. 8. 44: &quot;Free from desire, true, eternal, self-begotten, full of joy, subject to none, he no longer fears death who knows the wise, ageless Ātman.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt; We cannot expect the family-books of the Rig-Veda, or the ninth, ''soma'' book to break out in theosophy. These books are collections of hymns addressed to the gods at a definite sacrifice: to that business they attend. It does not follow that what they do not mention does not exist at that time. We must beware of too straight-lined a view of these matters, one type following another like a row of bricks, or like different troops of the same army. I am not wise enough to say when the following stanza was pronounced: &quot;They call (it) Indra, Mitra, Varuna, and Agni, or the heavenly bird Garutmant (the Sun). The sages call the One Being in many ways; they call it Agni, Yama, Mātariçvan.&quot;

This verse states that the great gods of the Veda are but One Being; therefore it at once takes a high stand in the range of possible human thought. And yet it occurs in a hymn of the Rig-Veda, namely, the famous riddle-hymn of Dīrghatamas, in the first book of that collection.&lt;ref&gt;Rig-Veda I. 164. 46.&lt;/ref&gt; Another statement in the tenth book&lt;ref&gt;Rig-Veda 10. 129. 2.&lt;/ref&gt; is as follows: &quot;That One breathed&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/227</title>
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    <id>2055743</id>
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      <id>15132517</id>
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      <text bytes="1407" sha1="6ncrdcutp58q9wcnazl5iz7n0thcwfb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Beginnings of Hindu Theosophy|211}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;without breath, by inner power; than it, truly, nothing whatever else existed besides.&quot;

Here are two statements in two Brahmanical hymns, composed in the ''trishtubh'' metre, the same metre in which the Vedic poets love to call upon their fustian god Indra, and yet their intention is unmistakable. They herald monism; they claim that there is but one essence, one true thing: it is but a step from such ideas to the pantheistic, absolute, without a second, Brahman-Ātman of the Upanishads and the later Vedānta philosophy.

On the other hand, there are in the earlier religion, whether it be hymn and sacrifice to the gods, or theosophic thought, no clear signs of belief in the transmigration of souls; no pessimistic view of life, and consequently no scheme of salvation, or rather release (''mukti'') from the eternal round of existences, in which birth, old age, decay, and death are the nodal points in the chain of lives. That this phase of the higher religion belongs to a later time, to a different geographical locality, and to an economic and social state different from that of the earliest Vedic time, seems exceedingly likely. So we are led to the conclusion that there was a period of monistic speculation, tentative in character, yet fairly advanced at the time of the composition of at least the later hieratic hymns of the Rig-Veda. But this&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/228</title>
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    <id>2055744</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132522</id>
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      <text bytes="1380" sha1="ti3zz6bn8nmohv35jmejbfqgy0l2vk9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|212|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;higher religious thought lacked the twin factors of metempsychosis and pessimism which really determine its Hindu character. Pessimist view of transmigration, and release from transmigration are the true signs of Hinduism in the broadest sense of that word: through these twin conceptions the Hindu idea, as we may call it, is marked off from all the rest of human thought; without these, Hindu speculations about the divine might readily pose as a kind of Volapük, or Esperanto, for all the world of religious thought from the Prophets and Plato to Spinoza and Kant. We may safely date the entrance of metempsychosis and pessimism towards the end, rather than the beginning of Vedic tradition. It seems to mark a most important division of the Veda into two periods. Other marks, such as more or less advanced priestly ritual; the presence or absence of complicated witchcraft practices; the sudden and unexpected glint of a brilliant theosophic idea; or the varying forms of Vedic literary tradition involve real distinctions of time, but they are more gradual, and are easily construed subjectively. They do not, at any rate, involve anything as vital as the presence or absence of that pessimist doctrine of transmigration which holds India captive – to its cost – even at the present day.

Next, where did the higher religion spring up&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/229</title>
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      <id>15132525</id>
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      <text bytes="1428" sha1="42567ruvfvbwlsayraae0i9h7yq9kbe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Beginnings of Hindu Theosophy|213}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;There is at this time no centre of learning, no stoa, no monastery, no university. With the beginning of the growth of the higher religion there are connected many names, but not ''one'' name. There is no great teacher of genius like Buddha who is of a later time. We have no reason to look to some confined space within which this business of world philosophy was carried on exclusively. Indeed, the sporadic, tentative nature of the earliest high thought, the way in which it was approached from many different sides and in many different moods, shows that it flitted about from place to place, and was the play-ball of many minds. But, I believe, we can tell pretty definitely the kind of environment from which theosophy received its first impulse, and within which it prospered up to goodly size and strength. That, curiously enough, was the great Vedic sacrifice with its mock business and endless technicalities, calculated to deaden the soul, and apparently the very thing to put the lid tight on higher religious inspiration and aspiration.

The great Vedic sacrifices, the so-called ''çrauta'' sacrifices, such as the ''rājasūya'' (coronation of a king), or the ''açvamedha'' (horse-sacrifice) were performances intended to strengthen the temporal power of kings. They were, of course, undertaken either by kings or at least rich Kshatriyas, rather than by the class of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1477" sha1="38co46z17mislo9ej6r7r075t4gh8rg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Beginnings of Hindu Theosophy|215}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;kingdoms on such occasions, and kings became themselves glorious expounders of theosophic religion.

The beginnings of theosophic thought are not in the Upanishads but, as we have said before, in the polytheistic and ritualistic religion that preceded the Upanishad. Especially in connection with the great sacrifices of the kind just mentioned the Brahmans, in the long run, found it to their advantage to impress the &quot;generous givers,&quot; the patrons of the sacrifice, not only with their mastery of sacrificial technique, but also with their theological profundity. To some extent learned theological discussions in prose, of a highly scholastic (Talmudic) nature, fulfil this purpose. This we may call the philosophy of the sacrifice, such as is displayed, for instance, in the exposition of the ''agnihotra'' sacrifice in Çatapatha Brāhmana 11. 6. 2. But furthermore, they employ a very interesting form of poetic riddle or charade to enliven the mechanical and technical progress of the sacrifice by impressive intellectual pyrotechnics. I question whether such a type of religious literature is known in any other religion, or whether the riddle has ever elsewhere been drafted into the service of religion as one of the stages of its advancement. In other words, religious charades are a part of Hindu religious literature.&lt;ref name=&quot;p215-1&quot;&gt;See Haug, ''Vedische Räthselfragen und Räthselsprüche, Transac-''&lt;/ref&gt;

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/232</title>
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      <text bytes="1545" sha1="dl9zwevrqkht8nxopbbirzhpcwhftjn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|216|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;The Vedic word for higher speculative discussion as a whole, and especially for the religious, mostly poetic, riddle is ''brahmodya'' or ''brahmavadya,'' that is, &quot;analysis or speculation about the ''brahma,'' or religion.&quot; It is very generally carried on by two priests, one of whom asks questions, the other answers them. It is a kind of theological &quot;quiz,&quot; prearranged by the two parties: questioner and responder know their parts to perfection.

At the horse-sacrifice two priests ask and answer:

{{blockquote/s}}
&quot;Who, verily, moveth quite alone; who, verily, is born again and again; what, forsooth, is the remedy for cold; and what is the great (greatest) pile&quot;?
{{blockquote/e}}

The answer is:

{{blockquote/s}}
&quot;The sun moveth quite alone; the moon is born again and again; Agni (fire) is the remedy for cold; the earth is the great (greatest) pile.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Vājasaneyi Samhitā 23. 9 and 10.&lt;/ref&gt;
{{blockquote/e}}

The priest called Hotar asks the priest called Adhvaryu:

{{blockquote/s}}
&quot;What, forsooth, is the sun-like light; what sea is there like unto the ocean; what, verily, is higher than the earth; what is the thing whose measure is not known&quot;?
{{blockquote/e}}

The answer is:

{{blockquote/s}}
&quot;Brahma is the sun-like light; heaven is the sea like
&lt;ref follow=&quot;p215-1&quot;&gt;''tions of the Munich Academy,'' 1875, p. 7 ''ff.'' of the reprint; Ludwig, ''Der Rig-Veda,'' vol. iii., p. 390 ''ff.''; the author, ''Journal of the American Oriental Society,'' vol. xv., p. 172.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{blockquote/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/233</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="1477" sha1="kx1ryp8ct5cpp8zcjrkahya7an4hwkn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;The Beginnings of Hindu Theosophy 217
{{blockquote/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;unto the ocean; (the god) Indra is higher than the earth; the measure of the cow is (quite) unknown.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;The same text, 23. 47 and 48.&lt;/ref&gt;
{{blockquote/e}}

Again the following questions and answers:

{{blockquote/s}}
&quot;I ask thee for the highest summit of the earth; I ask thee for the navel of the universe; I ask thee for the seed of the lusty steed; I ask thee for the highest heaven of speech.&quot;

&quot;This altar is the highest summit of the earth; this sacrifice is the navel of the universe; this ''soma'' (the intoxicating sacrificial drink) is the seed of the lusty steed (God Indra?); this Brahman priest is the highest heaven. (that is to say, the highest exponent) of speech.&lt;ref&gt;''Ibid.,'' 23. 61 and 62.&lt;/ref&gt;
{{blockquote/e}}

It is interesting to note that these riddles show us again the Hindu mind preoccupied with the nature phenomena of the world, at a time when the old nature gods have become completely crystallised. Again, as regards the status of these riddles, the Kena Upanishad opens with a very similar pair of riddle-stanzas, showing that the state of mind at the bottom of nature-worship, ''brahmodya,'' and Upanishad marks advancing mental interests, but yet advance along the same line.

The Rig-Veda (1. 164) contains a hymn which is nothing but a collection of fifty-two verses of poetry, all of them, except one, riddles whose answers are not given. There can be little doubt that the occa-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132426</id>
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      <text bytes="1485" sha1="el30bx1bta2ys752bfz76v4cdjxse3e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Beginnings of Hindu Theosophy|217}}
{{blockquote/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;unto the ocean; (the god) Indra is higher than the earth; the measure of the cow is (quite) unknown.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;The same text, 23. 47 and 48.&lt;/ref&gt;
{{blockquote/e}}

Again the following questions and answers:

{{blockquote/s}}
&quot;I ask thee for the highest summit of the earth; I ask thee for the navel of the universe; I ask thee for the seed of the lusty steed; I ask thee for the highest heaven of speech.&quot;

&quot;This altar is the highest summit of the earth; this sacrifice is the navel of the universe; this ''soma'' (the intoxicating sacrificial drink) is the seed of the lusty steed (God Indra?); this Brahman priest is the highest heaven. (that is to say, the highest exponent) of speech.&lt;ref&gt;''Ibid.,'' 23. 61 and 62.&lt;/ref&gt;
{{blockquote/e}}

It is interesting to note that these riddles show us again the Hindu mind preoccupied with the nature phenomena of the world, at a time when the old nature gods have become completely crystallised. Again, as regards the status of these riddles, the Kena Upanishad opens with a very similar pair of riddle-stanzas, showing that the state of mind at the bottom of nature-worship, ''brahmodya,'' and Upanishad marks advancing mental interests, but yet advance along the same line.

The Rig-Veda (1. 164) contains a hymn which is nothing but a collection of fifty-two verses of poetry, all of them, except one, riddles whose answers are not given. There can be little doubt that the occa-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/234</title>
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    <id>2055750</id>
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      <id>15132461</id>
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      <text bytes="1411" sha1="7jx8nqm0lnu8h9082o59yqmhmc3ipk7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|218|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;sion upon which these riddles were let off was the same as with those just cited, namely, the sacrifice. The subjects of these riddles are cosmic, that is, pertaining to the nature phenomena of the universe; mythological, that is, referring to the accepted legends about the gods; psychological, that is, pertaining to the human organs and sensations; or, finally, crude and tentative philosophy or theosophy. Heaven and earth, sun and moon, air, clouds and rain; the course of the sun, the year, the seasons, months, days and nights; the human voice, self-consciousness, life and death; the origin of the first creature and the originator of the universe – such are the abrupt and bold themes. Here figures also (stanza 46) that seemingly precocious statement which contains the suggestion, symptomatic for all future Hindu thought, namely, that above and behind the great multitude of gods there is one supreme personality; behind the gods there is that &quot;Only Being&quot; of whom the gods are but various names – ''πολλών ὀνομάτων μορφὴ μία'':

{{blockquote/s}}
&quot;They call it Indra, Mitra, Varuna, and Agni, or the heavenly bird Garutmant (the sun). The sages call the One Being in many ways; they call it Agni, Yama, Mātariçvan.&quot;
{{blockquote/e}}

How closely attached to the sacrifice theosophic speculations remained as they grew in clearness and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/235</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15132464</id>
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      <text bytes="1430" sha1="pjw9gwypxdtkwj62kwo9e9qp43gv5gp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Beginnings of Hindu Theosophy|219}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;importance, we cannot say; all that we can say is, that in time the two intrinsically uncongenial themes parted company. Nor can we assert that theosophic thought would not have sprung up in the Hindu mind, endowed as we see it to be, independently from the sacrifice and its perverted scholastic scintillations. Given the mind, the thought will come. But it is easy to see that the beginnings of higher religion started around the sacrifice, by calling out the higher aspirations of the patrons of the sacrifice. Wisdom-searching Rājas, weary of the world, Janaka and Ajātaçatru at an earlier time, Buddha and Bimbisāra at a later time, have as much to do with the development of Hindu religion as the thirst for newer and larger truth on the part of the Brahmans themselves. The Rājas were the Mæcenases of the &quot;poor clerics.&quot; We imagine very easily that some of them got a surfeit of the world, and were attracted to the things beyond. The beginnings of theosophy grew up around the sacrifice which was under their patronage. The Brahmans grew up to their patrons' – and, we may add, to their own – higher needs. They began to offer these patrons something more than ritual technicalities. In the long run they must hold their position and reputation by something better than by handling with ludicrous correctness fire-wood and sacrificial ladle; ''soma'' drink and obla-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/236</title>
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    <revision>
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      <text bytes="1456" sha1="i7xnonvgj7ru6k5b40aafcjhl94o95t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|220|The Religion of the Veda}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tions of melted butter. And in the long run their minds, which somehow, the hocus-pocus of the sacrifice had neither deadened nor satisfied, rose to those higher and permanent requirements which led to practical abandonment of the sacrifice and lasting devotion to philosophic religion.

The question, next, as to who carried on the higher religion has been answered incidentally in what has just been said. If what is stated there is stated correctly, we shall not go astray if we assume that the Brahmans were the mainspring in the advance of higher thought, just as they were the main factors in the worship of the gods and in ceremonial practices. But this same question requires to be stated more precisely for the following reason. A number of distinguished scholars have recently advanced the theory that Hindu theosophy is not, as has been tacitly assumed, in the main the product of Brahmanical intellect, but that it was due to the spiritual insight of the Royal or Warrior Caste.&lt;ref&gt;See Deussen, ''Allgemeine Geschichte der Philosophie,'' vol. i., part 2, pp. 354 ''ff.''; Garbe, ''Beiträge zur Indischen Kulturgeschichte,'' pp. 3 ''ff.''; Winternitz, ''Geschichte der Indischen Litteratur,'' pp. 196 ''ff.''&lt;/ref&gt;

Professor Garbe of the University of Tübingen, an eminent student of Hindu philosophy and at the same time a scholar well versed in the early literature of the Vedas, is the most ardent advo-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/243</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132860</id>
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      <text bytes="1416" sha1="83csfo7ulol2pv7nqs4unu5etl6k1lc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Beginnings of Hindu Theosophy|227}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Yājnavalkya's brilliant exposition of theosophy by repeated gifts of a thousand cows – we may wonder who counted them, and what Yājnavalkya did with them – King Ajātaçatru of Benares, real intellectual as he is, will not allow admiring Brahmans to starve.

I think that a saying of the modern sage and pious ascetic, the Paramahansa Rāmakrishna,&lt;ref&gt;See Max Müller, ''Rāmakrishna, His Life and Sayings,'' p. 127.&lt;/ref&gt; throws essentially the right light upon the exceptional character of the theosophic exploits of kings: &quot;Men always quote the example of the King Janaka, as that of a man who lived in the world and yet attained perfection. But throughout the whole history of mankind there is only this solitary example. His case was not the rule but the exception.&quot; We may tone down this statement, and apply it to the present question as follows: Not all Brahmans were intellectually or morally sound, but some Brahmans were at all times, as they were in the days of Çankara and Kumārila, the intellectual leaders of India; brilliant helpers from the other castes, more especially the Royal caste,&lt;ref&gt;See above. p. 219.&lt;/ref&gt; lent occasional aid, and this aid justly compelled acknowledgment and admiration.

I am now come at last to the &quot;how&quot; of Hindu higher thought, that is, my task is now to show how the main or essential thoughts of Hindu theosophy&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/245</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132529</id>
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      <text bytes="1392" sha1="43boykiv4cbakd8hw9vqpnylez7x919" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Beginnings of Hindu Theosophy|229}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;record of any period of Hindu thought of which we can say definitely that it was wanting in the highest and most strenuous thought, from the time of the riddle hymn of Dīrghatamas and the creation-hymn,&lt;ref&gt;Rig-Veda 1. 164 and 10. 129.&lt;/ref&gt; to the modern Vedāntins and Paramahansas of the type of Rāmakrishna and Vivekānanda.

To begin with, negatively speaking, there are at a very early time traces of scepticism. The old mythological gods in strong flesh tints are just the least bit disconcerting. There are those who begin to say of the gods: &quot;They are not,&quot; and, doubtless, there is a growing number of those who begin to weaken in that faith (''çraddha'') which means monotonously sacrifice, and gifts to the Brahmans. The way in which the Veda insists upon this faith shows that it could not always be taken for granted. Especially the god Indra who is a good deal of a Bombastes Furioso must have presented himself to the eye of the more enlightened as a brummagem god, tricky, braggart, drunken, and immoral. Indra, like Zeus, will have his fling. There is a story about himself and a lady by the name of Ahalyā in which he assumes the outer form of that lady's august priestly husband for his own purposes, and this as well as other treacherous acts are a fruitful source of moralising in the later Veda. Even in the Rig-Veda, if&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Religion of the Veda.djvu/267</title>
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      <text bytes="1352" sha1="5rsuf5w1nfxevr4btqazgxka990wjfm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Final Philosophy of the Veda|251}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;mortal man. The Fathers of old have travelled it, and this path leads every earth-born mortal thither. There in the midst of highest heaven, in the lap of the Goddess Dawn, beams unfading light, there eternal waters flow. There Yama sits under a tree of beautiful foliage, engaged in an everlasting bout in the company of the gods; there mortals gather after death at Yama's call to behold Varuna. They have left all imperfections behind them on returning to their true home, the rich meadows of which no one can rob them. In that place there are no lame nor crooked of limb; the weak no longer pay tribute to the strong; all alike share with Yama and the gods the feast of the gods.

Underneath the coat of sugar the pill of death is bitter after all. Fitfully the Vedic Hindu regales himself with the hope of paradise, but his real craving is expressed in Vedic literature countless times: &quot;May we live a hundred autumns, surrounded by lusty sons!&quot; On the way to Yama the dead must pass the two broad-nosed, four-eyed dogs, the speckled and the dark; according to another turn of this myth these same dogs, originally sun and moon,&quot;&lt;ref&gt;See above, p. 105.&lt;/ref&gt; wander among men and pick the daily candidates that are to go on their last pilgrimage. Soon we hear of the foot-snare of Yama. Think or do what&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/79</title>
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      <text bytes="2217" sha1="30qfqg9kg0093zgnow7xpp7r5tp4wee" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|51}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;When, after congress has begun in the clasping position, the woman presses her lover with her thighs, it is called the &quot;pressing position.&quot;

When the woman places one of her thighs across the thigh of her lover, it is called the &quot;twining position,&quot;

When the woman forcibly holds in her yoni the lingam after it is in, it is called the &quot;mare's position.&quot; This is learnt by practice only, and is chiefly found among the women of the ''Andra'' country.

The above are the different ways of lying down, mentioned by ''Babhravya; Suvarnanabha'', however, gives the following in addition.

When the female raises both of her thighs straight up, it is called the &quot;rising position.&quot;

When she raises both of her legs, and places them on her lover's shoulders, it is called the &quot;yawning position.&quot;

When the legs are contracted, and thus held by the lover before his bosom, it is called the &quot;pressed position.&quot;

When only one of her legs is stretched out, it is called the &quot;half-pressed position

When the woman places one of her legs on her {{SIC|lovers'|lover's}} shoulder, and stretches the other out, and then places the latter on his shoulder, and stretches out the other, and continues to do so alternately, it is called the &quot;splitting of a bamboo.&quot;

When one of her legs is placed on the head, and the other is stretched out, it is called the &quot;fixing of a nail.&quot; This is learnt by practice only.

When both the legs of the woman are contracted, and placed on her stomach, it is called the &quot;crab's position.&quot;

When the thighs are raised and placed one upon the other, it is called the &quot;packed position.&quot;

When the shanks are placed one upon the other, it is called the &quot;lotus-like position.&quot;

When a man, during congress, turns round, and enjoys the woman without leaving her, while she embraces him round the back all the time, it is called the &quot;turning position,&quot; and is learnt only by practice.

Thus, says ''Suvarnanabha'', these different ways of lying down, sitting, and standing should be practiced in water, because it is easy to do so therein. But ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that congress in water is improper, because it is prohibited by the religious law.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="452" sha1="h9lwbp9b3fw00iqhuofy3zeitn376z8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|53}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Thus end the various kinds of congress. There are also two verses on the subject as follows.

&quot;An ingenious person should multiply the kinds {{SIC|cf|of}} congress after the fashion of the different kinds of beasts and of birds. For these different kinds of congress, performed according to the usage of each country, and the liking of each individual, generate love, friendship, and respect in the hearts of women.&quot;
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/82</title>
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      <text bytes="1475" sha1="cvmg9m5hzhc2a3q8q3kwre4wrenlxa5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER VII.}}
{{ph/sub|Of the Various Modes of Striking, and of the Sounds Appropriate to Them.}}

Sexual intercourse can be compared to a quarrel, on account of the contrarieties of love and its tendency to dispute. The place of striking with passion is the body, and on the body the special places are:

{{plainlist|
* The shoulders.
* The head.
* The space between the breasts.
* The back.
* The ''jaghana'', or middle part of the body.
* The sides.}}

Striking is of four kinds, viz.:

{{plainlist|
* Striking with the back of the hand.
* Striking with the fingers a little contracted.
* Striking with the fist.
* Striking with the open palm of the hand.}}

On account of its causing pain, striking gives rise to the hissing sound, which is of various kinds, and to the eight kinds of crying, viz.:

{{plainlist|
* The sound Hin.
* The thundering sound.
* The cooing sound.
* The weeping sound.
* The sound Phut.
* The sound Phat.
* The sound Sut.
* The sound Plat.}}

Besides these, there are also words having a meaning, such as &quot;mother,&quot; and those that are expressive of prohibition, sufficiency, desire of liberation, pain or praise, and to which may be added sounds like those of the dove, the cuckoo, the green pigeon, the parrot, the bee, the sparrow, the flamingo, the duck, and the quail, which arc all occasionally made use of.

Blows with the fist should be given on the back of the woman, which she is sitting on the lap of the man, and she&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center|54}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/80</title>
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      <text bytes="2301" sha1="c228g100btzrp75nno3prg5puc4p23a" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|52|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;When a man and a woman support themselves on each other's bodies, or on a wall, or pillar, and thus while standing engage in congress, it is called the &quot;supported congress.&quot;

When a man supports himself against a wall, and the woman, sitting on his hands joined together and held underneath her, throws her arms round his neck, and putting her thighs alongside his waist, moves herself by her feet, which are touching the wall against which the man is leaning, it is called the &quot;suspended congress.&quot;

When a woman stands on her hands and feet like a quadruped, and her lover mounts her like a bull, it is called the &quot;congress of a cow.&quot; At this time every thing that is ordinarily done on the bosom should be done on the back.

In the same way can be carried on the congress of a dog, the congress of a goat, the congress of a deer, the forcible mounting of an ass, the congress of a cat, the jump of a tiger, the pressing of an elephant, the rubbing of a boar, and the mounting of a horse. And in all these cases the {{SIC|chraacteristics|characteristics}} of these different animals should be manifested by acting like them.

When a man enjoys two women at the same time, both of whom love him equally, it is called the &quot;united congress.&quot;

When a man enjoys many women together, it is called the &quot;congress of a herd of cows.&quot;

The following kinds of congress, viz., sporting in water, or the congress of an elephant with many female elephants which is said to take place only in the water, the congress of a collection of goats, the congress of a collection of deer, take place in imitation of these animals.

In ''Gramaneri'' many young men enjoy a woman that may be married to one of them, either one after the other, or at the same time. Thus one of them holds her, another enjoys her, a third uses her mouth, a fourth holds her middle part, and in this way they go on enjoying her several parts alternately.

The same things can be done when several men are sitting in company with one courtezan, or when one courtezan is alone with many men. In the same way this can be done by the women of the King's harem when they accidentally get hold of a man.

The people in the Southern countries have also a congress in the anus, that is called the &quot;lower congress.&quot;
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/83</title>
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      <text bytes="2689" sha1="em3c26rkhu4ox9ewsahxd01svwz1txn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|55}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;should give blows in return, abusing the man as if she were angry, and making the cooing and the weeping sounds. While the woman is engaged in congress the space between the breasts should be struck with the back of the hand, slowly at first, and then proportionately to the increasing excitement, until the end.

At this time the sounds Hin and others may be made, alternately or optionally, according to habit. When the man, making the sound Phat, strikes the woman on the head, with the fingers of his hand a little contracted, it is called ''Prasritaka'', which means striking with the fingers of the hand a little contracted. In this case the appropriate sounds are the cooing sound, the sound Phat, and the sound Phut in the interior of the mouth, and at the end of congress the sighing and weeping sounds. The sound Phat is an imitation of the sound of a bamboo being split, while the sound Phut is like the sound made by something falling into water. At all times when kissing and such like things are begun, the woman should give a reply with a hissing sound. During the excitement when the woman is not accustomed to striking, she continually utters words expressive of prohibition, sufficiency, or desire of liberation, as well as the words &quot;father,&quot; &quot;mother,&quot; intermingled with the sighing, weeping and thundering sounds. &lt;ref&gt;Men who are well acquainted with the art of love are well aware how often one woman differs from another in her sighs and sounds during the time of congress. Some women like to be talked to in the most loving way, others in the most lustful way, others in the most abusive way, and so on. Some women enjoy themselves with closed eyes in silence, others make a great noise over it, and some almost faint away. The great art is to ascertain what gives them the greatest pleasure, and what specialities they like best. &lt;/ref&gt;  Towards the conclusion of the congress, the breasts, the ''jaghana'',and the sides of the woman should be pressed with the open palms of the hand, with some force, until the end of it, and then sounds like those of the quail, or the goose should be made.

There are also two verses on the subject as follows:

&quot;The characteristics of manhood are said to consist of roughness and impetuosity, while weakness, tenderness, sensibility, and an inclination to turn away from unpleasant things are the distinguishing marks of womanhood. The excitement of passion, and peculiarities of habit may sometimes cause contrary results to appear, but these do not last long, and in the end the natural state is resumed.&quot;

The wedge on the bosom, the scissors on the head, the&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2688" sha1="dkxww60dgz2wxdc49qotfcwepldezk8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|55}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;should give blows in return, abusing the man as if she were angry, and making the cooing and the weeping sounds. While the woman is engaged in congress the space between the breasts should be struck with the back of the hand, slowly at first, and then proportionately to the increasing excitement, until the end.

At this time the sounds Hin and others may be made, alternately or optionally, according to habit. When the man, making the sound Phat, strikes the woman on the head, with the fingers of his hand a little contracted, it is called ''Prasritaka'', which means striking with the fingers of the hand a little contracted. In this case the appropriate sounds are the cooing sound, the sound Phat, and the sound Phut in the interior of the mouth, and at the end of congress the sighing and weeping sounds. The sound Phat is an imitation of the sound of a bamboo being split, while the sound Phut is like the sound made by something falling into water. At all times when kissing and such like things are begun, the woman should give a reply with a hissing sound. During the excitement when the woman is not accustomed to striking, she continually utters words expressive of prohibition, sufficiency, or desire of liberation, as well as the words &quot;father,&quot; &quot;mother,&quot; intermingled with the sighing, weeping and thundering sounds.&lt;ref&gt;Men who are well acquainted with the art of love are well aware how often one woman differs from another in her sighs and sounds during the time of congress. Some women like to be talked to in the most loving way, others in the most lustful way, others in the most abusive way, and so on. Some women enjoy themselves with closed eyes in silence, others make a great noise over it, and some almost faint away. The great art is to ascertain what gives them the greatest pleasure, and what specialities they like best. &lt;/ref&gt; Towards the conclusion of the congress, the breasts, the ''jaghana'', and the sides of the woman should be pressed with the open palms of the hand, with some force, until the end of it, and then sounds like those of the quail, or the goose should be made.

There are also two verses on the subject as follows:

&quot;The characteristics of manhood are said to consist of roughness and impetuosity, while weakness, tenderness, sensibility, and an inclination to turn away from unpleasant things are the distinguishing marks of womanhood. The excitement of passion, and peculiarities of habit may sometimes cause contrary results to appear, but these do not last long, and in the end the natural state is resumed.&quot;

The wedge on the bosom, the scissors on the head, the&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/84</title>
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      <text bytes="2221" sha1="4fx1cmhevmh3vk5dc4arvmtyqvljifl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|56|''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;piercing instrument on the cheeks, and the pinchers on the breasts and sides may also be taken into consideration with the other four modes of striking, and thus give eight ways altogether. But these four ways of striking with instruments are peculiar to the people of the southern countries, and the marks caused by them are seen on the breasts of their women. They are local peculiarities, but ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that the practice of them is painful, barbarous, and base, and quite unworthy of imitation.

In the same way anything that is a local peculiarity should not always be adopted elsewhere, and even in the place where the practice is prevalent, excess of it should always be avoided. Instances of the dangerous use of them may be given as follows. The ''King of the Panchalas'' killed the courtezan ''Madhavasena'' by means of the wedge during congress. ''King Shatakarni Shatavahana of the Kuntalas'' deprived his great Queen ''Malayavati'' of her life by a pair of scissors, and ''Naradeva'', whose hand was deformed, blinded a dancing girl by directing a piercing instrument in a wrong way.

There are also two verses on the subject as follows:

&quot;About these things there cannot be either enumeration or any definite rule. Congress having once commenced, passion alone gives birth to all the acts of the parties.&quot;

Such passionate actions and amorous gesticulations or movements, which arise on the spur of the moment, and during sexual intercourse, cannot be defined, and are as irregular as dreams. A horse having once attained the fifth degree of motion goes on with blind speed, regardless of pits, ditches, and posts in his way; and in the same manner a loving pair become blind with passion in the heat of congress, and go on with great impetuosity paying not the least regard to excess. For this reason one who is well acquainted with the science of love, and knowing his own strength as also the tenderness, impetuosity, and strength of the young woman, should act accordingly. The various modes of enjoyment are not for all times or for all persons, but they should only be used at the proper time, and in the proper countries and places.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/85</title>
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      <text bytes="2219" sha1="pbjqwhl0miy9enqag5odrf8jrwrhbz2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cyarenkatnikh&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER VIII}}
{{ph/sub|About Women Acting the Part of a Man; and of the Work of a Man.}}

{{sc|When}} a woman sees that her lover is fatigued by constant congress, without having his desire satisfied, she should, with his permission, lay him down upon his back, and give him assistance by acting his part. She may also do this to satisfy the curiosity of her lover, or her own desire of novelty.

There are two ways of doing this, the first is when during congress she turns round, and gets on the top of her lover, in such a manner as to continue the congress, without obstructing the pleasure of it; and the other is when she acts the man's part from the beginning. At such a time, with flowers in her hair hanging loose, and her smiles broken by hard breathings, she should press upon her lover's bosom with her own breasts, and lowering her head frequently should do in return the same actions which he used to do before, returning his blows and chaffing him, should say, &quot;I was laid down by you, and fatigued with hard congress, I shall now therefore lay you down in return.&quot; She should then again manifest her own bashfulness, her fatigue, and her desire of stopping the congress. In this way she should do the work of a man, which we shall presently relate.

Whatever is done by a man for giving pleasure to a woman is called the work of a man, and is as follows:—

While the woman is lying on his bed, and is as it were abstracted by his conversation, he should loosen the knot of her under garments, and when she begins to dispute with him, he should overwhelm her with kisses. Then when his lingam is erect he should touch her with his hands in various places, and gently manipulate various parts of the body. If the woman is bashful, and if it is the first time that they have come together, the man should place his hands between her thighs, which she would probably keep close together, and if she is a very young girl, he should first get his hands upon her breasts, which she would probably cover with her own hands, and under her armpits and on her neck. If however she is a seasoned woman, he should do whatever is agreeable either to him or to her, and whatever is fitting for the&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center|57}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2003" sha1="762a1ian8wiwo92iyd4enxrqyibip8m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cyarenkatnikh&quot; /&gt;{{rh|58|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;occasion. After this he should take hold of her hair, and hold her chin in his fingers for the purpose of kissing her. On this, if she is a young girl, she will become bashful and close her eyes. Any how he should gather from the action of the woman what things would be pleasing to her during congress.

Here ''Suvarnanabha'' says that while a man is doing to the woman what he likes best during congress, he should always make a point of pressing those parts of her body on which she turns her eyes.

The signs of the enjoyment and satisfaction of the woman are as follows: her body relaxes, she closes her eyes, she puts aside all bashfulness, and shows increased willingness to unite the two organs as closely together as possible. On the other hand, the signs of her want of enjoyment and of failing to be satisfied are as follows: she shakes her hands, she does not let the man get up, feels dejected, bites the man, kicks him, and continues to go on moving after the man has finished. In such cases the man should rub the yoni of the woman with his hand and fingers (as the elephant rubs anything with his trunk) before engaging in congress, until it is softened, and after that is done he should proceed to put his lingam into her.

The acts to be done by the man are:

{{block center|{{plainlist|
* Moving forward.
* Friction or churning.
* Piercing.
* Rubbing.
* Pressing.
* Giving a blow.
* The blow of a boar.
* The blow of a bull.
* The sporting of a sparrow.
}}}}

(1) When the organs are brought together properly and directly it is called &quot;moving the organ forward.&quot;

(2) When the lingam is held with the hand, and turned all round in the yoni, it is called &quot;churning.&quot;

(3) When the yoni is lowered, and the upper part of it is struck with the lingam, it is called &quot;piercing.&quot;

(4) When the same thing is done on the lower part of the yoni, it is called &quot;rubbing.&quot;

(5) When the yoni is pressed by the lingam for a long time, it is called &quot;pressing.&quot;
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      <text bytes="1845" sha1="65iqx1rgdq2a0t863d9m1roqsgco5ak" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cyarenkatnikh&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|59}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;(6) When the lingam is removed to some distance from the yoni, and then forcibly strikes it, it is called &quot;giving a blow.&quot;

(7) When only one part of the yoni is rubbed with the lingam, it is called the &quot;blow of a boar.&quot;

(8) When both sides of the yoni are rubbed in this way, it is called the &quot;blow of a bull.&quot;

(9) When the lingam is in the yoni, and is moved up and down frequently, and without being taken out, it is called the &quot;sporting of a sparrow.&quot; This takes place at the end of congress.

When a woman acts the part of a man, she has the following things to do in addition to the nine given above, viz.

{{block center|{{plainlist|
* The pair of tongs.
* The top.
* The swing.}}}}

(1) When the woman holds the lingam in her yoni, draws it in, presses it, and keeps it thus in her for a long time, it is called the &quot;pair of tongs.&quot;

(2) When, while engaged in congress, she turns round like a wheel, it is called the &quot;top.&quot; This is learnt by practice only.

(3) When, on such an occasion, the man lifts up the middle part of his body, and the woman turns round her middle part, it is called the &quot;swing.&quot;

When the woman is tired, she should place her forehead on that of her lover, and should thus take rest without disturbing the union of the organs, and when the woman has rested herself the man should turn round and begin the congress again.

There are also some verses on the subject as follows:

&quot;Though a woman is reserved, and keeps her feelings concealed, yet when she gets on the top of a man, she then shows all her love and desire. A man should gather from the actions of the woman of what disposition she is, and in what way she likes to be enjoyed. A woman during her monthly courses, a woman who has been lately confined, and a fat woman should not be made to act the part of a man.&quot;
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/88</title>
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      <text bytes="2473" sha1="956kp58sef1qoa6ot5tvkow2vuthutw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cyarenkatnikh&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER IX.}}
{{ph/sub|Of the Auparishtaka&lt;ref&gt;This practice appears to have been prevalent in some parts of India from a very ancient time. The &quot;''Shushruta'',&quot; a work on medicine some two thousand years old, describes the wounding of the lingam with the teeth as one of the causes of a disease treated upon in that work. Traces of the practice are found as far back as the eighth century, for various kinds of the ''Auparishtaka'' are represented in the sculptures of many ''Shaiva'' temples at ''Bhuvaneshwara'', near ''Cuttack'', in ''Orissa'', and which were built about that period. From these sculptures being found in such places, it would seem that this practice was popular in that part of the country at that time. It does not seem to be so prevalent now in Hindustan, its place perhaps is filled up by the practice of sodomy introduced since the Mahomedan period. &lt;/ref&gt; or Mouth Congress}}

{{sc|There}} are two kinds of eunuchs, those that are disguised as males, and those that are disguised as females. Eunuchs disguised as females imitate their dress, speech, gestures, tenderness, timidity, simplicity, softness and bashfulness. The acts that are done on the ''jaghana'' or middle parts of women, are done in the mouths of these eunuchs, and this is called ''Auparishtaka''. These eunuchs derive their imaginative pleasure, and their livelihood from this kind of congress, and they lead the life of courtezans. So much concerning eunuchs disguised as females.

Eunuchs disguised as males keep their desires secret, and when they wish to do anything they lead the life of shampooers. Under the pretence of shampooing, an eunuch of this kind embraces and draws towards himself the thighs of the man whom he is shampooing, and after this he touches the joints of his thighs and his ''jaghana'' or central portions of his body. Then, if he finds the lingam of the man erect, he presses it with his hands, and chaffs him for getting into that state. If after this, and after knowing his intention, the man does not tell the eunuch to proceed, then the latter does it of his own accord and begins the congress. If, however, he is ordered by the man to do it, then he disputes with him, and only consents at last with difficulty.

The following eight things are then done by the eunuch one after the other, viz.

{{block center/s}}{{plainlist/s}}
* The nominal congress.
* Biting the sides.
* Pressing outside.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}{{block center/e}}
{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15132815</id>
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      <text bytes="2482" sha1="mcqf2up4575ujdh6lxgh1ska5z4me4k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cyarenkatnikh&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER IX.}}
{{ph/sub|Of the Auparishtaka&lt;ref&gt;This practice appears to have been prevalent in some parts of India from a very ancient time. The &quot;''Shushruta'',&quot; a work on medicine some two thousand years old, describes the wounding of the lingam with the teeth as one of the causes of a disease treated upon in that work. Traces of the practice are found as far back as the eighth century, for various kinds of the ''Auparishtaka'' are represented in the sculptures of many ''Shaiva'' temples at ''Bhuvaneshwara'', near ''Cuttack'', in ''Orissa'', and which were built about that period. From these sculptures being found in such places, it would seem that this practice was popular in that part of the country at that time. It does not seem to be so prevalent now in Hindustan, its place perhaps is filled up by the practice of sodomy introduced since the Mahomedan period. &lt;/ref&gt; or Mouth Congress}}

{{sc|There}} are two kinds of eunuchs, those that are disguised as males, and those that are disguised as females. Eunuchs disguised as females imitate their dress, speech, gestures, tenderness, timidity, simplicity, softness and bashfulness. The acts that are done on the ''jaghana'' or middle parts of women, are done in the mouths of these eunuchs, and this is called ''Auparishtaka''. These eunuchs derive their imaginative pleasure, and their livelihood from this kind of congress, and they lead the life of courtezans. So much concerning eunuchs disguised as females.

Eunuchs disguised as males keep their desires secret, and when they wish to do anything they lead the life of shampooers. Under the pretence of shampooing, an eunuch of this kind embraces and draws towards himself the thighs of the man whom he is shampooing, and after this he touches the joints of his thighs and his ''jaghana'' or central portions of his body. Then, if he finds the lingam of the man erect, he presses it with his hands, and chaffs him for getting into that state. If after this, and after knowing his intention, the man does not tell the eunuch to proceed, then the latter does it of his own accord and begins the congress. If, however, he is ordered by the man to do it, then he disputes with him, and only consents at last with difficulty.

The following eight things are then done by the eunuch one after the other, viz.

{{block center/s}}{{plainlist/s}}
* The nominal congress.
* Biting the sides.
* Pressing outside.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}{{block center/e}}
{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/89</title>
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{{block center/s}}{{plainlist/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* Pressing inside.
* Kissing.
* Rubbing.
* Sucking a {{SIC|mangoe}} fruit.
* Swallowing up.
{{plainlist/e}}{{block center/e}}

At the end of each of these, the eunuch expresses his wish to stop, but when one of them is finished, the man desires him to do another, and after that is done, then the one that follows it and so on.

(1) When, holding the man's lingam with his hand, and placing it between his lips, the eunuch moves about his mouth, it is called the &quot;nominal congress.&quot;

(2) When, covering the end of the lingam with his fingers collected together like the bud of a plant or flower, the eunuch presses the sides of it with his lips, using his teeth also, it is called &quot;biting the sides.&quot;

(3) When, being desired to proceed, the eunuch presses the end of the lingam with his lips closed together, and kisses it as if he were drawing it out, it is called the &quot;outside pressing.&quot;

(4) When, being asked to go on, he puts the lingam further into his mouth, and presses it with his lips and then takes it out, it is called the &quot;inside pressing.&quot;

(5) When, holding the lingam in his hand, the eunuch kisses it as if he were kissing the lower lip, it is called kissing.

(6) When, after kissing it, he touches it with his tongue everywhere, and passes the tongue over the end of it, it is called &quot;rubbing.&quot;

(7) When, in the same way, he puts the half of it into his mouth, and forcibly kisses and sucks it, this is called &quot;sucking a mangoe fruit.&quot;

(8) And lastly, with the consent of the man, the eunuch puts the whole lingam into his mouth, and presses it to the very end, as if he were going to swallow it up, it is called &quot;swallowing up.&quot;

Striking, scratching, and other things may also be done during this kind of congress.

The ''Auparishtaka'' is practised only by unchaste and wanton women, female attendants and serving maids, i.e., those who are not married to any body, but who live by shampooing.

The ''Acharyas'' (i.e., ancient and venerable authors) are of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/90</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2074391</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132818</id>
      <parentid>8986978</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:12:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
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      <text bytes="2461" sha1="r8vs7sui3phma4tw1ibykm590phlce8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cyarenkatnikh&quot; /&gt;{{rh|62|''The Kama Sutra'' }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;opinion that this ''Auparishtaka'' is the work of a dog and not of a man, because it is a low practice, and opposed to the orders of the Holy Writ, and because the man himself suffers by bringing his lingam into contact with the mouths of eunuchs and women. But ''Vatsyayana'' says that the orders of the Holy Writ do not affect those who resort to courtezans, and the law prohibits the practice of the ''Auparishtaka'' with married women only. As regards the injury to the male, that can be easily remedied.

The people of Eastern India do not resort to women who practice the ''Auparishtaka''.

The people of ''Ahichhatra'' resort to such women, but do nothing with them so far as the mouth is concerned.

The people of ''Saketa'' do with these women every kind of mouth congress, while the people of ''Nagara'' do not practice this, but do every other thing.

The people of the ''Shurasena'' country, on the southern bank of the ''Jumna'' do everything without any hesitation, for they say that women being naturally unclean, no one can be certain about their character, their purity, their conduct, their practices, their confidences, or their speech. They are not, however, on this account to be abandoned, because religious law, on the authority of which they are reckoned pure, lays down that the udder of a cow is clean at the time of milking, though the mouth of a cow, and also the mouth of her calf, are considered unclean by the Hindoos. Again a dog is clean when he seizes a deer in hunting, though food touched by a dog is otherwise considered very unclean. A bird is clean when it causes a fruit to fall from a tree by pecking at it, though things eaten by crows and other birds are considered unclean. And the mouth of a woman is clean for kissing and such like things at the time of sexual intercourse. ''Vatsyayana'' moreover thinks that in all these things connected with love, everybody should act according to the custom of his country, and his own inclination.

There are also the following verses on the subject.

The male servants of some men carry on the mouth congress with their masters. It is also practiced by some citizens, who know each other well, among themselves. Some women of the harem, when they are amorous, do the acts of the mouth on the yonis of one another, and some men do the same thing with women. The way of doing this (i.e., of kissing the yoni) should be known from kissing the mouth.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/91</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132819</id>
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      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="1484" sha1="0r88ezjfd0bkckxlme7p0fa05bchj1m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Cyarenkatnikh&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|63 }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;When a man and woman lie down in an inverted order, i.e., with the head of the one towards the feet of the other and carry on this congress, it is called the &quot;congress of a crow.&quot;

For the sake of such things courtezans abandon men possessed of good qualities, liberal and clever, and become attached to low persons, such as slaves and elephant drivers. The ''Auparishtaka'', or mouth congress, should never be done by a learned ''Brahman'', by a minister that carries on the business of a state, or by a man of good reputation, because though the practice is allowed by the ''Shastras'', there is no reason why it should be carried on, and need only be practiced in particular cases. As for instance the taste, and the strength, and the digestive qualities of the flesh of dogs are mentioned in works on medicine, but it does not therefore follow that it should be eaten by the wise. In the same way there are some men, some places, and some times, with respect to which these practices can be made use of. A man should therefore pay regard to the place, to the time, and to the practice which is to be carried out, as also as to whether it is agreeable to his nature and to himself, and then he may or may not practice these things according to circumstances. But after all, these things being done secretly, and the mind of the man being fickle, how can it be known what any person will do at any particular time and for any particular purpose.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/94</title>
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      <text bytes="2323" sha1="1w2eoci2a97wvm4r3jwmoaux4azvo12" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|66|''The Kama Sutra'' }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;that between citizens and the women of villages, and bordering countries, is called &quot;deceitful congress.&quot;

(7) The congress that takes place between two persons who are attached to one another, and which is done according to their own liking is called &quot;spontaneous congress.&quot;

Thus end the kinds of congress.

We shall now speak of love quarrels.

A woman who is very much in love with a man cannot bear to hear the name of her rival mentioned, or to have any conversation regarding her, or to be addressed by her name through mistake. If such takes place, a great quarrel arises, and the woman cries, becomes angry, tosses her hair about, strikes her lover, falls from her bed or seat, and, casting aside her garlands and ornaments, throws herself down on the ground.

At this time, the lover should attempt to reconcile her with conciliatory words, and should take her up carefully and place her on her bed. But she, not replying to his questions, and with increased anger, should bend down his head by pulling his hair, and having kicked him once, twice, or thrice on his arms, head, bosom or back, should then proceed to the door of the room. ''Dattaka'' says that she should then sit angrily near the door and shed tears, but should not go out, because she would be found fault with for going away. After a time, when she thinks that the conciliatory words and actions of her lover have reached their utmost, she should then embrace him, talking to him with harsh and reproachful words, but at the same time showing a loving desire for congress.

When the woman is in her own house, and has quarrelled with her lover, she should go to him and show how angry she is, and leave him. Afterwards the citizen having sent the Vita,&lt;ref name=&quot;*&quot;&gt;The characteristics of these three individuals have been given in Part 1., page 21. &lt;/ref&gt; the Vidushaka&lt;ref name=&quot;*&quot; /&gt; or the Pithamurda&lt;ref name=&quot;*&quot; /&gt; to pacify her, she should accompany them back to the house, and spend the night with her lover.

Thus end the love quarrels.

In conclusion.

A man, employing the sixty-four means mentioned by Babhravya, obtains his object, and enjoys the woman of the first quality. Though he may speak well on other subjects, if he does not know the sixty-four divisions, no great respect&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/95</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="760" sha1="4ek3twycsypkfsvoawa86ue2wklwak3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Rajasekhar1961&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|67}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;is paid to him in the assembly of the learned. A man, devoid of other knowledge, but well acquainted with the sixty-four divisions, becomes a leader in any society of men and women. What man will not respect the sixty-four parts, &lt;ref&gt;A definition of the sixty-four parts, or divisions, is given in Chapter II, page 37. &lt;/ref&gt; considering they are respected by the learned, by the cunning, and by the courtezans. As the sixty- four parts are respected, are charming, and add to the talent of women, they are called by the ''Acharyas'' dear to women. A man skilled in the sixty-four parts is looked upon with love by his own wife, by the wives of others, and by courtezans.

{{c|{{sc|End of Part II.}}}}
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/92</title>
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      <text bytes="2287" sha1="f7109e7gjbx6phze3cwxgtyw7pjp6aq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Rajasekhar1961&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER X.}}
{{ph/sub|Of the Way How to Begin and How to End the Congress. Different Kinds of Congress and Love Quarrels.}}

{{sc|In}} the pleasure-room, decorated with flowers, and fragrant with perfumes, attended by his friends and servants, the citizen should receive the woman, who will come bathed and dressed, and will invite her to take refreshment and to drink freely. He should then seat her on his left side, and holding her hair, and touching also the end and knot of her garment, he should gently embrace her with his right arm. They should then carry on an amusing conversation on various subjects, and may also talk suggestively of things which would be considered as coarse, or not to be mentioned generally in society. They may then sing, either with or without gesticulations, and play on musical instrument, talk about the arts, and persuade each other to drink. At last when the woman is overcome with love and desire, the citizen should dismiss the people that may be with him, giving them flowers, ointments, and betel leaves, and then when the two are left alone, they should proceed as has been already described in the previous chapters.

Such is the beginning of sexual union. At the end of the congress, the lovers, with modesty, and not looking at each other, should go separately to the washing-room. After this, sitting in their own places, they should eat some betel leaves, and the citizen should apply with his own hand to the body of the woman some pure sandal wood ointment, or ointment of some other kind. He should then embrace her with his left arm, and with agreeable words should cause her to drink from a cup held in his own hand, or he may give her water to drink. They can then eat sweetmeats, or anything else, according to their liking, and may drink fresh juice,&lt;ref&gt;The fresh juice of the cocoa nut tree, the date tree, and other kinds of palm trees are drunk in India. It will not keep fresh very long, but ferments rapidly, and is then distilled into liquor.&lt;/ref&gt;  soup, gruel, extracts of meat, sherbet, the juice of mangoe fruits, the extract of the juice of the citron tree mixed with sugar, or anything that may be liked in different countries, and known to be sweet, soft, and pure. The lovers may&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}
{{c|64}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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This is the end of sexual union.

Congress is of the following kinds, viz.:

{{block center|{{plainlist|
* Loving congress.
* Congress of subsequent love.
* Congress of artificial love.
* Congress of transferred love.
* Congress like that of eunuchs.
* Deceitful congress.
* Congress of spontaneous love.
}}}}

(1) When a man and a woman, who have been in love with each other for some time, come together with great difficulty, or when one of the two returns from a journey, or is reconciled after having been separated on account of a quarrel, then congress is called the &quot;loving congress.&quot; It is carried on according to the liking of the lovers, and as long as they choose.

(2) When two persons come together, while their love for each other is still in its infancy, their congress is called the &quot;congress of subsequent love.&quot;

(3) When a man carries on the congress by exciting himself by means of the sixty-four ways, such as kissing, etc., etc., or when a man and a woman come together, though in reality they are both attached to different persons, their congress is then called &quot;congress of artificial love.&quot; At this time all the ways and means mentioned in the ''Kama Shastra'' should be used.

(4) When a man, from the beginning to the end of the congress, though having connection with the woman, thinks all the time that he is enjoying another one whom he loves, it is called the &quot;congress of transferred love.&quot;

(5) Congress between a man and a female water carrier or a female servant of a caste lower than his own, lasting only until the desire is satisfied, is called &quot;congress like that of eunuchs.&quot; Here external touches, kisses, and manipulations are not to be employed.

(6) The congress between a courtezan and a rustic, and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Encyclopædia Britannica, Ninth Edition, v. 5.djvu/409</title>
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      <text bytes="8201" sha1="8zdsayu5czz1w1cj088ojnanncp9o8d" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{x-larger|CHA—CHA}}|{{larger|397}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;CHAPMAN&quot; /&gt;{{hwe|frequently|unfrequently}} with flashes of fancy, and kindled at times into heat of imagination. The main fault of his style is one more commonly found in the prose than in the verse of his time,—a quaint and florid obscurity, rigid with elaborate rhetoric and tortuous with labyrinthine illustration; not dark only to the rapid reader through closeness and subtlety of thought, like Donne, whose miscalled obscurity is so often &quot;all glorious within,&quot; but thick and slab as a witch's gruel with forced and barbarous eccentricities of articulation. As his language in the higher forms of comedy is always pure and clear, and sometimes exquisite in the simplicity of its earnest and natural grace, the stiffness and density of his more ambitious style may perhaps be attributed to some pernicious theory or conceit of the dignity proper to a moral and philosophic poet. Nevertheless, many of the gnomic passages in his tragedies and allegoric poems are of singular weight and beauty; the best of these, indeed, would not discredit the fame of the very greatest poets for sublimity of equal thought and expression: witness the lines chosen by Shelley as the motto for a poem, and fit to have been chosen as the motto for his life.

The romantic and sometimes barbaric grandeur of Chapman's Homer remains attested by the praise of Keats, of Coleridge, and of Lamb; it is written at a pitch of strenuous and laborious exaltation, which never flags or breaks down, but never flies with the ease and smoothness of an eagle native to Homeric air. From his occasional poems an expert and careful hand might easily gather a noble anthology of excerpts, chiefly gnomic or meditative, allegoric or descriptive. The most notable examples of his tragic work are comprised in the series of plays taken, and adapted sometimes with singular licence, from the records of such part of French history as lies between the reign of Francis&amp;nbsp;I. and the reign of Henry&amp;nbsp;IV., ranging in date of subject from the trial and death of Admiral Chabot to the treason and execution of Marshal Biron. The two plays bearing as epigraph the name of that famous soldier and conspirator are a storehouse of lofty thought and splendid verse, with scarcely a flash or sparkle of dramatic action. The one play of Chapman's whose popularity on the stage survived the Restoration is ''Bussy d'Ambois'' (d'Amboise),—a tragedy not lacking in violence of action or emotion, and abounding even more in sweet and sublime interludes than in crabbed and bombastic passages. His rarest jewels of thought and verse detachable from the context lie embedded in the tragedy of ''Cæsar and Pompey'', whence the finest of them were first extracted by the unerring and unequalled critical genius of Charles Lamb. In most of his tragedies the lofty and labouring spirit of Chapman may be said rather to shine fitfully through parts than steadily to pervade the whole; they show nobly altogether as they stand, but even better by help of excerpts and selections. But the excellence of his best comedies can only be appreciated by a student who reads them fairly and fearlessly through, and, having made some small deductions on the score of occasional pedantry and occasional indecency, finds in ''All Fools, Monsieur d'Olive, The Gentleman Usher'', and ''The Widow's Tears'' a wealth and vigour of humorous invention, a tender and earnest grace of romantic poetry, which may atone alike for these passing blemishes and for the lack of such clear-cut perfection of character and such dramatic progression of interest as we find only in the yet higher poets of our heroic age.

So much it may here suffice to say of Chapman as an original poet, one who held of no man and acknowledged no master, but throughout the whole generation of our greatest men, from the birth of Marlowe well-nigh to the death of Jonson, held on his own hard and haughty way of austere and sublime ambition, not without kindly and graceful inclination of his high grey head to salute such younger and still nobler compeers as Jonson and Fletcher. With Shakespeare we should never have guessed that he had come at all in contact, had not the keen intelligence of a living critic, Mr Minto, divined or rather discerned him to be the rival poet referred to in Shakespeare's sonnets with a grave note of passionate satire, hitherto as enigmatic as almost all questions connected with those divine and dangerous poems. This conjecture the critic has fortified by such apt collocation and confrontation of passages that we may now reasonably accept it as an ascertained and memorable fact.

The objections which a just and adequate judgment may bring against Chapman's master-work, his translation of Homer, may be summed up in three epithets: it is romantic, laborious, Elizabethan. The qualities implied by these epithets are the reverse of those which should distinguish a translator of Homer; but setting this apart, and considering the poems as in the main original works, the superstructure of a romantic poet on the submerged foundations of Greek verse, no praise can be too warm or high for the power, the freshness, the indefatigable strength and inextinguishable fire which animate this exalted work, and secure for all time that shall take cognizance of English poetry an honoured place in its highest annals for the memory of Chapman. {{EB9 footer initials|Algernon Charles Swinburne|A. C. S.}}
&lt;section end=&quot;CHAPMAN&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;CHAPPE&quot; /&gt;{{ti|1em|{{larger|'''CHAPPE'''}}, '''{{sc|Claude}}''' (1763-1805), a French engineer, and the inventor of the simple French telegraph, was born in Normandy in 1763. His invention consisted of an upright post, on the top of which was fastened a transverse bar, while at the ends of the latter two smaller arms moved on pivots. The positions of these four bars represented words or letters; and by means of machines placed at intervals such that each was distinctly visible from the next, messages could be conveyed through 50 leagues in a quarter of an hour. It was said that Chappe borrowed the design from Hooke and Amontons, and the charge so deeply affected him that, notwithstanding the success of his machine, which had been adopted by the Legislative Assembly in 1792, he was seized with deep melancholia, under which he committed suicide in 1805.}}
&lt;section end=&quot;CHAPPE&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;CHAPTAL&quot; /&gt;{{text-indent/s|1em}}{{larger|'''CHAPTAL'''}}, '''{{sc|Jean Antoine}}''' (1756-1832), count of Chanteloup, an eminent French chemist and statesman, born at Nogaret, Lozère, 4th June 1756. At Montpellier, where he first studied chemistry, he obtained his doctor's diploma in 1777, when he repaired to Paris. In 1781, the States of Languedoc founded a chair of chemistry for him at the school of medicine in Montpellier, where he taught with success the doctrines of Lavoisier, in opposition to those of Stahl. The capital he acquired by the death of a wealthy uncle he employed in the establishment of chemical works for the manufacture of mineral acids, alum, white-lead, soda, and other substances. His labours in the cause of applied science were at length recognized by the French Government, which presented him with letters of nobility, and the cordon of the order of Saint Michel. A publication by Chaptal, entitled ''Dialogue entre un Montagnard et un Girondin'', caused him to be arrested; but being speedily set at liberty through the intermission of his friends, he undertook, in 1793, the management of the saltpetre works at Grenelle. In the following year he went to Montpellier, where he remained till 1797, when he returned to Paris. After the revolution of the 18th of Brumaire (9th November 1799) he was made a councillor of state by the first consul, and succeeded Lucien Bonaparte as minister of the interior, in which capacity he established a chemical manufactory near Paris, a school of arts, and a society of industries: he also reorganized the hospitals, introduced the metrical system of weights and measures, and otherwise greatly encouraged the arts and sciences. A&lt;section end=&quot;CHAPTAL&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{text-indent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{dropinitial|A}} faint stirring seemed to be going on about, which gradually made itself felt on my yet somnolent senses. Rising time was evidently drawing nigh. The uncertainty shortly came to an end when, in harsh tones, the familiar call sounded; ‘Lash up and stow, lash up and stow; 8-30 and time all hands were up.’

This announcement, coming as it did from a pair of lungs boasting of an early training in St. Paul’s Cathedral, and matured in the Navy, was calculated to effectually wake the profoundest slumberer, but did not prevent me turning over for a final doze.

It hardly seemed any time, however, before we were exerting our best efforts dragging the sledges onwards towards the southern goal. The drudgery of the journey over the great ‘sastrugi’ ruffled plateau of Victoria Land had now become felt by all.

Everlastingly our eyes wandered over the horizon in search of new objects, but as yet nothing greeted&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Dial- a monthly magazine for literature, philosophy and religion 1.djvu/784</title>
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      <text bytes="1274" sha1="9a53oe04k6zbpqakb7p9ix9a1i6b4mb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Jasonanaggie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;ZMtabUshed in 183S. 
&quot;WILLIAM TVISWELL, JR, 
ART REPOSITORY &amp; FREE GALLERY, 
ALSO IMPORTER AND DIALER IN ' 
FIRST-CLASS EUROPEAN AND AMERICAN 
ENGRAVINGS, DRAWINGS, AND OTHER WORKS OF ARt 
PIGTVBS8 AHD XATEBIAL VOB GBECIAK AVD OXIBirCAL 
PAIHTIHG. 
No. 70 West Fourth. Street, Cmcimiati, O. 
LOOKING-GLASS WABEBOOMS. 
In which may be always found the largest and most complete as- 
sorlment of Mantel and Pier Mirrors, Portrait, Picture, Miniaturo 
and fancy frames, Windrow Cornice, Ornamental Bases, etc., eto. 
to be met with in America, which, under his own supervision, is 
manufactured of the best materials, from Original Designs, em- 
bracing every style from the plainest to the most elaborate. 
ART UNION AND OTHER ENGRAVINGS 
Framed to order in Rioh, Tasteful and Appropriate Frames. 
LOOKINQ GLASS PLATES AND FRENCH SHEET GLASS, 
By the Box or Single Light. 
French Plate Glass, for Store Fronts, Private Dwellings, i4c. Jkc, 
Bough Glass, for Sky-Lights, Vaults, &lt;fec. &amp;c. 
GILT MOULDINGS. 
'fhe Agent for the West and South for Black (fe Graham'i 
Gilt Mouldings, a superior article to any ever manufactured, 
for sale in large or small quantities, to suit purchasers. 
All goods packed by careful and competent men so aa to insara 
perfect safety in shipment.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Atlantic Monthly Volume 2.djvu/164</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="3766" sha1="rtxol6ue9j8j2dotjhfvtqt42wo552x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Hilohello&quot; /&gt;{{rh|156|''The Kinloch Estate.''|[July,}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;And now to bring these desultory remarks to a practical conclusion. I have written these seemingly trifling fragments with a serious purpose. It is to show that the seaman has little or no art or part in the poetry of the seas. I have put down facts, have given what experience I have had of some of the idiosyncrasies of the forecastle. The poetry of the sea has been written on shore and by landsmen. [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]] &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]&quot; is a clever nautical tract, written in verse,—or if it be anything more, it is but the solitary exception which proves and enforces the rule. Midshipmen have written ambitious verses about the sea; but by the time the young gentlemen were promoted to the ward-room they have dropped the habit or found other themes for their stanzas. In truth, the stern manliness of his calling forbids the seaman to write poetry. He acts it. His is a profession which leaves no room for any assumed feeling or for any reflective tendencies. His instincts are developed, rather than his reason. He has no time to speculate. He must be prepared to lay his hand on the right rope, let the night be the darkest that ever came down upon the waves. He obeys orders, heedless of consequences; he issues commands amid the uproar and tumult of pressing emergencies. There is no chance for quackery in his work. The wind and the wave are infallible tests of all his knots and splices. He cannot cheat them. The gale and the lee-shore are not pictures, but fierce realities, with which he has to grapple for life or death. The soldier and the fireman may pass for heroes upon an assumed stock of courage; but the seaman must be a brave man in his calling, or Nature steps in and brands him coward. Therefore he cares little about the romance of his duties. If you would win his interest and regard, it must be on the side of his personal and human sensibilities. Cut off during his whole active life from any but the most partial sympathy with his kind, he yearns for the life of the shore, its social pleasures and its friendly greetings. Captains, whose vessels have been made hells-afloat by their tyranny, have found abundant testimony in the courts of law to their gentle and humane deportment on land. Therefore, when you would address seamen effectively, either in acts or words, let it be by no shallow mimicry of what you fancy to be their life afloat. It will be at best but &quot;shop&quot; to them, and we all know how distasteful that is in the mouth of a stranger to our pursuits. They laugh at your clumsy imitations, or are puzzled by your strange misconceptions. It is painful to see the forlorn attempts which are made to raise the condition of this noble race of men, to read the sad nonsense that is perpetrated for their benefit. If you wish really to benefit them, it must be by raising their characters as men; and to do this, you must address them as such, irrespectively of the technicalities of their calling.
{{nop}}
&lt;section end=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;
{{rule|15em|margin_tb=2em}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;{{c|{{larger|{{uc|The Kinloch Estate, and How it was Settled.}}}}}}

{{c|CHAPTER I.}}

{{sc|&quot;Mildred,}} my daughter, I am faint. Run and get me a glass of cordial from the buffet.&quot;

The girl looked at her father as he sat in his bamboo chair on the piazza, his pipe just let fall on the floor, and his face covered with a deadly pallor. She ran for the cordial, and poured it out with a trembling hand.

&quot;Shan't I go for the doctor, father?&quot; she asked.

&quot;No, my dear, the spasm will pass off presently.&quot; But his face grew more ashy pale, and his jaw drooped.

&quot;Dear father,&quot; said the frightened girl, &lt;section end=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{sc|About the Acquisition of a Wife}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{ph/sub|On Marriage}}

{{sc|When}} a girl of the same caste, and a virgin, is married in accordance with the precepts of Holy Writ, the results of such an union are: the acquisition of ''Dharma'' and ''Artha'', offspring, affinity, increase of friends, and untarnished love. For this reason a man should fix his affections upon a girl who is of good family, whose parents are alive, and who is three years or more younger than himself. She should be born of a highly respectable family, possessed of wealth, well connected, and with many relations and friends. She should also be beautiful, of a good disposition, with lucky marks on her body, and with good hair, nails, teeth, ears, eyes, and breasts, neither more nor less than they ought to be, and no one of them entirely wanting, and not troubled with a sickly body. The man should, of course, also possess these qualities himself. But at all events, says ''Ghotakamukha'', a girl who has been already joined with others (i.e., no longer a maiden) should never be loved, for it would be reproachable to do such a thing.

Now in order to bring about a marriage with such a girl as described above, the parents and relations of the man should exert themselves, as also such friends on both sides as may be desired to assist in the matter. These friends should bring to the notice of the girl's parents, the faults, both present and future, of all the other men who may wish to marry her, and should at the same time extol even to exaggeration all the excellences, ancestral and paternal, of their friend, so as to endear him to them, and particularly to those that may be liked by the girl's mother. One of the friends should also disguise himself as an astrologer, and declare the future good fortune and wealth of his friend by showing the existence of all the lucky omens &lt;ref&gt;The flight of a blue jay on a person's left side is considered a lucky omen when one starts on any business; the appearance of a cat before anyone at such a time is looked on as a bad omen. There are many omens of the same kind.&lt;/ref&gt; and signs,&lt;ref&gt;Such as the throbbing of the right eye of men and the left eye of women, etc.&lt;/ref&gt; the good influence of planets, the auspicious entrance of the sun into a sign of the&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}
{{c|71}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2232" sha1="6773vdyk8pab8l0b82loynv1n8ob59a" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|72|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Zodiac, propitious stars and fortunate marks on his body. Others again should rouse the jealousy of the girl’s mother by telling her that their friend has a chance of getting from some other quarter even a better girl than hers.

A girl should be taken as a wife, as also given in marriage, when fortune, signs, omens, and the words&lt;ref&gt;Before anything is begun it is a custom to go early in the morning to a neighbor’s house, and overhear the first words that may be spoken in his family, and according as the words heard are of good or bad import, so draw an inference as to the success or failure of the undertaking.&lt;/ref&gt; of others are favorable, for, says ''Ghotakamukha'', a man should not marry at any time he likes. A girl who is asleep, crying, or gone out of the house when sought in marriage, or who is betrothed to another, should not be married. The following also should be avoided.

{{center block|{{plainlist|
* One who is kept concealed.
* One who has an ill-sounding name.
* One who has her nose depressed.
* One who has her nostril turned up.
* One who is formed like a male.
* One who is bent down.
* One who has crooked thighs.
* One who has a projecting forehead.
* One who has a bald head.
* One who does not like purity.
* One who has been polluted by another.
* One who is affected with the ''Gulma''.&lt;ref&gt;A disease consisting of any glandular enlargement in any part of the body.&lt;/ref&gt;
* One who is disfigured in any way.
* One who has fully arrived at puberty.
* One who is a friend.
* One who is a younger sister.
* One who is a ''Varshakari''.&lt;ref&gt; A woman, the palms of whose hands and the soles of whose feet are always perspiring.&lt;/ref&gt;
}}}}

In the same way a girl who is called by the name of one of the twenty-seven stars, or by the name of a tree, or of a river, is considered worthless, as also a girl whose name ends in “r” or “l.” But some authors say that prosperity is gained only by marrying that girl to whom one becomes attached, and that therefore no other girl but the one who is loved should be married by anyone.

When a girl becomes marriageable her parents should dress her smartly, and should place her where she can be&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2273" sha1="4pc2052utlt9rjxj0za2jpxrcrze120" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|73}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;easily seen by all. Every afternoon, having dressed her and decorated her in a becoming manner, they should send her with her female companions to sports, sacrifices, and marriage  ceremonies, and thus show her to advantage in society, because she is a kind of merchandise. They should also receive with kinds words and signs of friendliness those of an auspicious appearance who may come accompanied by their friends and relations for the purpose of marrying their daughter, and under some pretext or other having first dressed her becomingly, should then present her to them. After this they should await the pleasure of fortune, and with this object should appoint a future day on which a determination could be come to with regard to their daughter’s marriage. On this occasion when the persons have come, the parents of the girl should ask them to bathe and dine, and should say, “Everything will take place at the proper time,” and should not then comply with the request, but should settle the matter later.

When a girl is thus acquired either according to the custom of the country, or according to his own desire, the man should marry her in accordance with the precepts of the Holy Writ, according to one of the four kinds of marriage.

Thus ends marriage.

There are also some verses on the subject as follows:

Amusement in society, such as completing verses begun by others, marriages, and auspicious ceremonies should be carried on neither with superiors, nor inferiors, but with our equals. That should be known as a high connection when a man, after marrying a girl, has to serve her and her relations afterwards like a servant, and such a connection is censured by the good. On the other hand, that reproachable connection, where a man, together with his relations, lords it over his wife, is called a low connection by the wise. But when both the man and the women afford mutual pleasure to each other, and where the relatives on both sides pay respect to one another, such is called a connection in the proper sense of the word. Therefore a man should contract neither a high connection by which he is obliged to bow down afterwards to his kinsmen, nor a low connection, which is universally reprehended by all.
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{{ph/sub|Of Creating Confidence in the Girl.}}

{{sc|For}} the first three days after marriage, the girl and her husband should sleep on the floor, abstain from sexual pleasures, and eat their food without seasoning it either with alkali or salt. For the next seven days they should bathe amidst the sounds of auspicious musical instruments, should decorate themselves, dine together, and pay attention to their relations as well as to those who may have come to witness their marriage. This is applicable to persons of all castes. On the night of the tenth day the man should begin in a lonely place with soft words, and thus create confidence in the girl. Some authors say that for the purpose of winning her over he should not speak to her for three days, but the followers of ''Babhravya'' are of opinion that if the man does not speak with her for three days, the girl may be discouraged by seeing him spiritless like a pillar, and, becoming dejected, she may begin to despise him as a eunuch. ''Vatsyayana'' says that the man should begin to win her over, and to create confidence in her, but should abstain at first from sexual pleasures. Women being of a tender nature, want tender beginnings, and when they are forcibly approached by men with whom they are but slightly acquainted, they sometimes suddenly become haters of sexual connection, and sometimes even haters of the male sex. The man should therefore approach the girl according to her liking, and should make use of those devices by which he may be able to establish himself more and more into her confidence. These devices are as follows:—

He should embrace her first of all in the way she likes most, because it does not last for a long time.

He should embrace her with the upper part of his body, because that is easier and simpler. If the girl is grown up, or if the man has known her for some time, he may embrace her by the light of a lamp, but if he is not well acquainted with her, or if she is a young girl, he should then embrace her in darkness.

When the girl accepts the embrace, the man should put a &quot;tambula&quot; or screw of betel nut and betel leaves in her&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center|74}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{sc|About the Wives of Other People}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{ph/sub|Of the Ways of Exciting Desire, and Miscellaneous Experiments, and Recipes.}}

{{sc|If}} a man is unable to satisfy a ''Hastini'', or ''elephant-woman'', he should have recourse to various means to excite her passion. At the commencement he should rub her yoni with his hand or fingers, and not begin to have intercourse with her until she becomes excited, or experiences pleasure. This is one way of exciting a woman.

Or, he may make use of certain ''Apadravyas,'' or things which are put on or around the lingam to supplement its length or its thickness, so as to fit it to the yoni. In the opinion of ''Babhravya'', these ''Apadravyas'' should be made of gold, silver, copper, iron, ivory, buffalo's horn, various kinds of wood, tin, or lead, and should be soft, cool, provocative of sexual vigor, and well fitted to serve the intended purpose. ''Vatsyayana,'' however, says that they may be made according to the natural liking of each individual.

The following are the different kinds of ''Apadravyas.''

(1) &quot;The armlet&quot; (''Valaya'') should be of the same size as the lingam, and should have its outer surface made rough with globules.

(2) &quot;The couple&quot; (''Sanghati'') is formed of two armlets.

(3) &quot;The bracelet&quot; (''Chudaka'') is made by joining three or more armlets, until they come up to the required length of the lingam.

(4) &quot;The single bracelet&quot; is formed by wrapping a single wire around the lingam, according to its dimensions.

(5) The ''Kantuka'' or ''Jalaka'' is a tube open at both ends, with a hole through it, outwardly rough and studded with soft globules, and made to fit the size of the yoni, and tied to the waist.

When such a thing cannot be obtained, then a tube made of the wood apple, or tubular stalk of the bottle gourd, or a reed made soft with oil and extracts of plants, and tied to the waist with strings, may be made use of, as also a row of soft pieces of wood tied together.

The above are the things that can be used in connection with, or in the place of the lingam.
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{{User:Reboot01/Userboxes}}

Primary interests; Linguistics, Ancient Rome + Byzantine Studies, Latin, Africa, The Gambia, Law, North Carolina, the East Asian Cultural Sphere, South East Asia, Theology/Mythology/Religious Studies, Alchemy, Magic, Occult, etc., Calligraphy, Paleography, Political Science, Economics, Socialism/Anarchism/Marxism and etc. (List is not in any particular order)

Feel free to contact me on my user talk page, or at the WikiSource Discord, reboot01!

== Currently working on/Want to have time to work on ==
=== Projects ===
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject North Carolina/North Carolina Bibliography (1589-1956)|Sub-Project North Carolina Bibliography (1589-1956)]]

=== Indexes ===
* [[Index:Mother (IA mother00gorkrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Criterion - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Criterion - Volume 4.djvu]]
* [[Index:Lltreaties-ustbv001.pdf]]
* [[Index:The anatomy of melancholy - vvhat it is, vvith all the kindes, causes, symptomes, prognostickes, and severall cures of it - in three maine partitions with their seuerall sections (IA anatomyofmelanch00burt 2).pdf]]

====Reference Works, Dictionaries, Ecyclopedias, Language etc,====
* [[Index:Helps for student-writers (IA helpsforstudentw00hawk).pdf]]
* [[Index:Short stories in the making; a writers' and students' introduction to the technique and practical composition of short stories (IA shortstoriesinma00nea).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lectures on the elements of hieroglyphics and Egyptian antiquities (IA lecturesonelemen00spin).pdf]]
* [[Index:Account of Some Recent Discoveries in Hieroglyphical Literature and Egyptian Antiquities (IA dli.granth.37546).pdf]]
* [[Index:A grammar of the Samaritan language, with extracts and vocabulary (IA grammarofsamarit00nich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The dialect of the southern counties of Scotland - Murray - 1873.djvu]]
* [[Index:The place names of Elginshire (IA placenamesofelgi00mathrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of English balladry, and other studies (IA historyofenglish00brya).pdf]], 1919 reprint
* [[Index:A history of English balladry, and other studies (IA cu31924017774658).pdf]], 1913 print
* [[Index:A grammar of the Mandingo language- with vocabularies (IA grammarofmanding00macb).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern English - its growth and present use (IA modernenglishits00krap).pdf]]
* [[Index:The rise, progress, and present structure of the English language. (IA harrisonriseprog00harr).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishlanguagei0000geor/ The English Language in America, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishlanguagei0002geor/ The English Language in America, Volume 2]
* [[Index:The American language; an inquiry into the development of English in the United States (IA americanlanguage00menc 0).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [[Index:The American Language.djvu]]
* [[Index:American English (IA americanenglish00tuck).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishdialectg00wrig/ The English Dialect Grammar]
* [[Index:Phonology and grammar of modern west Frisian, with phonetic texts and glossary (IA phonologygrammar00sipm).pdf]]
* [[Index:A grammar of the Old Friesic language (IA grammarofoldfrie00cummrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:A grammar of the Old Friesic language (IA grammarofoldfrie00cummiala).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:The Frisian language and literature- a historical study (IA frisianlanguagel00hewerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A key into the language of America- or, An help to the language of the natives in that part of America, called New-England. - Together, with briefe observations of the customes (IA keyintolanguageo00will 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:File:A grammar of the Malagasy language, in the Ankova dialect (IA grammarofmalagas00grifrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the Maya hieroglyphs (IA introductiontost00morl 0).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/grammarofoscanum00buckuoft/ A Grammar of Oscan and Umbrian]
* [[Index:Pronunciation of Latin in the Augustan period (IA pronunciationofl00cambrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/childrensliterat0000curr/ Children's Literature]
* [[Index:Rudiments of Grammar for the English-Saxon Tongue (Elstob 1715).djvu]]
* [[Index:An Icelandic-English Dictionary - Cleasby &amp; Vigfusson - 1874.djvu]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume I, A-B.pdf]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume II, C-L.pdf]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume III, M-Z.pdf]]
* [[Index:Jewish Encyclopedia Volume 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:Catholic Encyclopedia, volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Pantographia - Fry - 1799.djvu]]
* [[Index:A practical grammar of the Hebrew language - Felsenthal - 1868.djvu]]
* [[Index:The grammar of English grammars.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Brasilian language and its agglutination.pdf]]
* [[Index:AnEssayTowardsARealCharacterAndAPhilosophicalLanguage.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Universal Alphabet, Grammar, and Language (universalalphabe00edmo, George Edmunds, 1856) (IA universalalphabe00edmo).pdf]]

====Theology, Spirituality, Occult, Mythology, old science and medicine etc.====
* [https://archive.org/details/orientalliteratu00muhiuoft/ The Dabistan]
* [https://archive.org/details/witchesstilllive00keny/ Witches Still Live]
* [[Index:Aradia or The Gospel of the witches.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29978518/ The mysteries and secrets of magic]
* [https://archive.org/details/demonologywitchc00brow/ Demonology and Witchcraft]
* [[Index:Witch, warlock, and magician; historical sketches of magic and witchcraft in England and Scotland (IA witchwarlockmagi00adamrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of witches; (IA bookofwitches00huef).pdf]]
* [[Index:La sorcière; the witch of the middle ages (IA lasorcierewitcho00michiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/dragonsdragonlor0000erne/ Dragons and Dragon Lore]
* [[Index:The evolution of the dragon (IA evolutionofdrago00smituoft).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/celticdragonmyth0000jrge/ The Celtic Dragon Myth]
* [https://archive.org/details/unicornamytholo00browgoog/ The Unicorn: A Mythological Investigation]
* [[Index:The religions of eastern Asia (IA religionsofeaste00underich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An account of the rise and progress of Mahometanism.djvu]]
* [[Index:Mahommed, &quot;the great Arabian,&quot; (IA mahommedthegreat00townrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The life of Mohammed; founder of the religion of Islam, and of the empire of the Saracens (IA lifeofmohammedfo00bushrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mohammedanism (IA mohammedanism00margiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mohammedanism, a pseudo christianity (IA mohammedanismpse00clyd).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christiaan Snouck Hurgronje - Mohammedanism (1916).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifereligionofma0000mene/ The life and religion of Mahommed]
* [[Index:The Columbian Congress of the Universalist Church - papers and addresses at the Congress, held as a section of the World's Congress Auxiliary of the Columbian Exposition, 1893 (IA columbiancongres00colu).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our word and work for missions; (IA ourwordworkformi00rugg).pdf]]
* [[Index:A handbook of Christian apologetics (IA handbookofchrist00garviala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Unitarianism in America; a history of its origin and development (IA cu31924029477852).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ordination of women to the pastorate in Baptist churches (IA ordinationofwome00hung).pdf]]
* [[Index:Women in the Apostolic church; a critical study of the evidence in the New Testament for the prominence of women in early Christianity (IA womeninapostolic00allwrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/theplaceofwomeni00unknuoft/ The Place of Women in the Church]
* [https://archive.org/details/womaninpulpit00will/ Women in the Pulpit]
* [https://archive.org/details/minhaj_al-talibin_english/ Minhaj Al-Talibin]
* [[Index:Development of Muslim theology, jurisprudence, and constitutional theory (IA cu31924029159691).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/traditionsofisla0000alfr/ The Traditions of Islam]
* [https://archive.org/details/muhammadinhadees0000abul/ Muhammad in the Hadees]
* [https://archive.org/details/amanualofthelead00tisduoft/ A manual of the leading Muhammadan objections to Christianity]
* [https://archive.org/details/theoriginalsourc00tisduoft/ The original sources of the Qur'ân]
* [[Index:The sword of Islam (IA swordofislam00woll).pdf]]
* [[Index:The spirit of Islam; or, The life and teachings of Mohammed (IA spiritofislamorl00alisrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Moslem seeker after God - showing Islam at its best in the life and teaching of al-Ghazali, mystic and theologian of the eleventh century (IA moslemseekeraft00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Moslem doctrine of God; an essay on the character and attributes of Allah according to the Koran and orthodox tradition (IA moslemdoctrineof00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Samaritan Pentateuch- the story of a survival among the sects (IA samaritanpentate00bart).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/samaritanstheirh00gast/ The Samaritans : their history, doctrines and literature]
* [[Index:The Samaritans, the earliest Jewish sect; their history, theology and literature (IA cu31924028585929).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/samaritanstheirt00thomuoft/ The Samaritans: their testimony to the religion of Israel]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29351765/ An Account of the Rise and Progress of Mahometanism]
* [[Index:The book of Yahweh (The Yahwist Bible) - fragments from the primitive document in seven early books of the Old Testament (IA cu31924029285661).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lecturesonmodern00bart/ Lectures on Modern Universalism]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofopinion00beec/ History of opinions on the scriptural doctrine of retribution]
* [https://archive.org/details/mysteryhidfromag00chau_0/ The Mystery Hid from Ages and Generations]
* [[Index:Sermons in vindication of Universalism...in reply to &quot;Lectures on Universalism&quot;; (IA sermonsinvindica00mors).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our new departure; (IA ournewdeparture00broo).pdf]]
* [[Index:Universalism as it is; or, Text book of modern universalism in America (IA universalismasit00hatfrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The plain guide to Universalism - designed to lead inquirers to the belief of that doctrine, and believers to the practice of it (IA plainguidetouniv00whitrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Handbook of Christian symbolism (IA handbookofchrist00auds).pdf]]
* [[Index:Bible manual. Introductory course on the Bible, for teachers training classes and Bible classes (IA biblemanualintro00kram).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofopinion00beec/ History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Future Retribution]
* [[Index:Over the river- (IA overriver00thayiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/originhistoryofd00thay_0/ The origin and history of the doctrine of endless punishment]
* [https://archive.org/details/theologyofuniver00thay/ Theology of Universalism]
* [[index:An examination of the doctrine of future retribution (IA examinationofdoc00ball).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christianity against infidelity.. (IA christianityagai00thay).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Bible class assistant, or Scriptural guide for Sunday schools.. (IA bibleclassassist00thay).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/elevensermonswhi00ball/ The eleven sermons which were preached]
* [[Index:The Christian universalist (IA christianunivers00mitc).pdf]]
* [[Index:Bible proofs of universal salvation.. (IA bibleproofsofuni00hans).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ancient history of universalism, from the time of the apostles to its condemnation in the fifth general council, A. D. 553 (IA ancienthistoryof00ball 1).pdf]], 2nd Edition, 1842
* [[Index:Universalism, the prevailing doctrine of the Christian church during its first five hundred years; with authorities and extracts (IA universalismpre00hans).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient history of universalism - from the time of the apostles, to the fifth general council - with an appendix, tracing the doctrine to the Reformation (IA ancienthistoryof00ball 0).pdf]], Boston Reprint, 1872
* [[Index:The divine government (IA divinegovernment00smit).pdf]], 5th Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/restorationofall00whit/ The restoration of all things]
* [https://archive.org/details/helptotheunlearn00trimuoft/ A help to the unlearned in the study of the Holy Scriptures]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 4.djvu]]
* [[Index:A critical exposition of the popular Jihád.pdf]]
* [[Index:Te Ika a Maui, or, New Zealand and its inhabitants - with the geology, natural history, productions, and climate of the country, etc. (IA teikamauiornewze1855rich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Polynesian Mythology by George Grey (polynesianmythol00greyuoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:Myths And Songs From The South Pacific (IA mythsandsongsfro013889mbp).pdf]]
* [[Index:Legends of Ma-ui-a demi god of Polynesia (IA legendsofmauiade00west).pdf]]
* [[Index:Creation myths of primitive America - in relation to the religious history and mental development of mankind (IA creationmyths00curtrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hawaiian legends of volcanoes (mythology) (IA hawaiianlegendso01west).pdf]]
* [[Index:Legends of gods and ghosts (Hawaiian mythology).djvu]]
* [[Index:The legends and myths of Hawaii - the fables and folk-lore of a strange people (IA legendsmythsofha00kala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Pele and Hiiaka; a myth from Hawaii (IA pelehiiakamythfr00emeriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hawaiian antiquities (Moolelo Hawaii) (IA hawaiianantiquit00malorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Unwritten literature of Hawaii; the sacred songs of the hula (IA cu31924026916415).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient Jewish proverbs (IA ancientjewishpro00cohe).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Babylonian Talmud- Tractate Berakot; translated into English for the first time, with introduction, commentary, glossary and indices (IA babyloniantalmud00coheiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sacred cosmogony; or, Primitive revelation demonstrated by the harmony of the facts of the Mosaic history of the creation, with the principles of general science (IA sacredcosmogonyo00sori).pdf]]
* [[Index:A short survey of the literature of rabbinical and mediæval Judaism (IA cu31924029285371).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Preaching of Islam, by T. W. Arnold; 1935.djvu]]
* [[Index:The religion of Islám (IA religionofislm00kleirich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/originsofdruzepe00hitt/ The origins of the Druze people and religion]
* [https://archive.org/details/essaysonsubjects01wrig/ Essays on subjects connected with the literature, popular superstitions, and history of England in the Middle Ages, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/essaysonsubjects02wrig/ Essays on subjects connected with the literature, popular superstitions, and history of England in the Middle Ages, Volume 2]
* [[Index:A contribution to the comparative study of the medieval visions of heaven and hell (IA contributiontoco01beck).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demon possession and allied themes; being an inductive study of phenomena of our own times (IA demonpossessiona00neviiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Devil Worship.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/heavenhellincomp0000kohl/ Heaven and hell in comparative religion]
* [https://archive.org/details/diabolologyperso1890jewe/ Diabolology]
* [[Index:The Book of the Goetia (Mathers-Crowley, 1904).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Key of Solomon the king (Clavicula Salomonis) (IA b24884431).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lesserkeyofsolom00dela/ The Lesser Key of Solomon]
* [[Index:Irish witchcraft and demonology (IA irishwitchcraftd00seymrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demonology and devil-lore (IA demonologydevill00conw).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demonology and devil-lore (IA demonologydevill00conw2).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/storyofworldswor00dobbuoft/ Story of the World's Worship]
* [https://archive.org/details/moonlore00harl/ Moon Lore]
* [[Index:Witch-Cult in Western Europe (1921).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/womansshareinpri00maso/ Woman's Share in Primitive Culture]
* [[Index:Germanic origins (IA germanicorigins00gumm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Woman, church and state- a historical account of the status of woman through the Christian ages- with reminiscences of matriarchate - (IA womanchurchstate00gagerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Golden Bough (1922).djvu]]
* [[Index:Myths and myth-makers- old tales and superstitions interpreted by comparative mythology (IA mythsandmythmake00fiskiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Researches in prehistoric and protohistoric comparative philology, mythology, and archæology, in connection with the origin of culture in America and the Accad or Sumerian families (IA researchesinpreh00clar).pdf]]
* [[Index:The material culture and social institutions of the simpler peoples; an essay in correlation (IA materialcultures00hobhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the science of comparative mythology and folklore (IA cu31924029075328).pdf]]
* [[Index:Fecundity, fertility, sterility, and allied topics (IA cu31924030410801).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Fecundity, fertility, sterility and allied topics (IA b21778176).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:The Catholic's ready answer; a popular vindication of Christian beliefs and practices against the attacks of modern criticism (IA catholicsreadyan00hill).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/commentaryonbibl00peak/ A commentary on the Bible]
* [[Index:The Bible and astronomy; (IA bibleastronomy00kurt).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sunloreofallages00olco/ Sun Lore of All Ages]
* [[Index:An account of the life and writings of S. Irenæus (IA accountoflifewri00beav).pdf]]
* [[Index:Heresy and Chistian doctrine (IA heresychistiando00pres).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/observationsonhe0000whit/ Observations on heresy and orthodoxy]
* [https://archive.org/details/historicalviewof00mcfa/ An historical view of heresies and vindication of the primitive fait]
* [[Index:The gnostic heresies of the first and second centuries (IA gnosticheresieso00mansrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Aryan sun-myths the origin of religions; (IA aryansunmythsori00titcrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mosaicall philosophy - grounded upon the essentiall truth or eternal sapience (IA mosaicallphiloso00flud).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of four-footed beasts and serpents. (IA historyoffourfoo00tops).pdf]]
* [[Index:The historie of foure-footed beastes (1607).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/immortalityunsee0000unse/ Immortality and the Unseen World]
* [[Index:Angelology.. (IA angelology00clay).pdf]]
* [[Index:Angelology-.. (IA angelology00mcca).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA b30330610).pdf]], Blagraves astrological practice of physick
* [[Index:Anatomical texts of the earlier middle ages; a study in the transmission of culture (1927).djvu]]
* [[Index:Books from the Biodiversity Heritage Library (IA mobot31753000703782).pdf]], Paradisi in sole paradisus terrestris
* [[Index:The philosophy of witchcraft (IA philosophyofwitc00mitciala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA b30529906).pdf]], The compleat wizzard
* [[Index:A commentary on the Holy Bible (1909) (IA commentaryonholy01dumm).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Christian Book of concord, or, Symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church; comprising the three chief symbols, the unaltered Augsburg confession, the Apology (IA christianbookofc00luth).pdf]], 1st edition, 1851
* [[Index:The Christian Book of concord = or, Symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church - comprising the three chief symbols, the unaltered Augsburg confession, the Apology (IA christianbookofc00henk).pdf]], 2nd edition 1854
* [[Index:Books from the Library of Congress (IA theologicalpropd03scha).pdf]], Theological propædeutic; a general introduction to the study of theology
* [[Index:A Complete System of Christian Theology (Wakefield, 1869, completesystemof0000wake).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Queen of Sheba &amp; her only son Menyelek (IA queenofshebahero00budgrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Some answered questions; collected and tr. from the Persian of 'Abdu'l-Baha, by Laura Clifford Barney (IA someansweredques00abdurich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hujajul Beheyyeh (The Behai proofs) (IA hujajulbeheyyeht00abua).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sevenvalleysreve00bah/ The Seven Valleys]
* [[Index:Tablet of tarazat, Tablet of the world, Words of Paradise, Tablet of Tajalleyat, The glad tidings; (IA tabletoftarazatt00baharich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/promulgationofun01abdu/ The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/promulgationofun0002abdu/ The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Volume 2]
* [[Index:The Moslem doctrine of God; an essay on the character and attributes of Allah according to the Koran and orthodox tradition (IA moslemdoctrineof00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:Development of Muslim theology, jurisprudence, and constitutional theory (IA cu31924029159691).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Samaritans, the earliest Jewish sect; their history, theology and literature (IA cu31924028585929).pdf]]
* [[Index:The theology and ethics of the Hebrews (IA theologyethicsof00duffiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/thesixdaysofcrea00lewsuoft/ The Six Days of Creation]
* [[Index:The chemical history of the six days of creation (IA cu31924029284399).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/patriarchalageor00smituoft/ The patriarchal age; or, The history and religion of mankind]
* [[Index:The patriarchal age; (IA patriarchalage00phil).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/immortalityunsee0000unse/ Immortality and the unseen world; a study in Old Testament religion]
* [[Index:The unity of the book of Genesis (IA unityofbookofge00gree).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Book of Jubilees, translated from the Ethiopic (IA cu31924076045669).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Jubilees. Robert Henry Charles. 1902 (IA bookofjubileesor00char).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Book of Jubilees. Robert Charles, George Box. 1917 (IA bookofjubileesor01char).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Exodus, with introduction and notes (IA bookofexoduswith00mcnerich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bookofgenesisnot00drivuoft/ The Book of Genesis; with introduction and notes by S.R. Driver]
* [[Index:The legends of Genesis (IA legendsofgenesis00gunk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Genesis in the light of modern knowledge (IA bookofgenesisinl01worc).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/worldbeforeabrah00mitcuoft/ The World before Abraham, according to Genesis I-XI]
* [[Index:The creation - a commentary on the first five chapters of the book of Genesis (IA creationcommenta00luth).pdf]]
* [[Index:The genesis of Genesis; (IA genesisofgenesis00bacorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early traditions of Genesis (IA earlytraditionso00gordrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/teachingvaluesof00stri/ Teaching values of the legends and myths of Genesis]]
* [[Index:The composition of the book of Genesis (IA compositionofbo00frip).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes on the book of Genesis (IA notesonbookofgen00mackrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Discourses on the book of Genesis (IA discoursesonbook00henriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indications of the first book of Moses, called Genesis (IA indicationsoffir00latc).pdf]]
* [[Index:Outline studies in Genesis (IA outlinestudiesin00russ).pdf]]
* [[Index:Studies on the book of Genesis (IA studiesonbookof00prat).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early narratives of Genesis; a brief introduction to the study of Genesis I-XI (IA earlynarrativeso00rylerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes, critical and explanatory, on the book of Genesis ... (IA notescriticalexp00unse).pdf]]
* [[Index:Creation and the fall; a defence and exposition of the first three chapters of Genesis (IA creationfalldefe00macd).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/expositionofthre00glea/ An exposition of the three first chapters of Genesis, explained and improved]
* [[Index:The historical value of the first eleven chapters of Genesis; with some discussion of the new criticism (IA historicalvalueo00beac).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mosaic cosmogony. Literal translation of first chapter of Genesis, with annotations and rationalia (IA cu31924031786928).pdf]]
* [[Index:The first chapter of Genesis as the rock foundation for science and religion (IA cu31924031224789).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/notesobservation00scot/ Notes and observations upon the three first chapters of Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/acriticalandexe01murpgoog/ A critical and exegetical commentary on the book of Genesis, 1st Edition, Edinburgh, 1863]
* [[Index:Genesis I-II- (IA genesisiii00grot).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1880
* [[Index:Genesis I-II- an essay on the Bible narrative of creation (IA genesisiiiessayo01grot).pdf]], 2nd Edition, 1881
* [[Index:The tabernacle - or the Gospel according to Moses (IA tabernacleorgosp00junk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Tabernacle; its history and structure (IA tabernacleitshis00cald).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/primevalrevelati00jone/ Primeval Revelation: Studies in Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/messagesformorni00trum/ Messages for the Morning Watch: Devotional Studies in Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/beginningsofhebr00cole/ The Beginnings of the Hebrew People: Studies in the Book of Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/genesisorfirstbo0000lang/ Genesis, or, the first book of Moses, together with a general theological and homiletical introduction to the Old Testament]
* [[Index:The myths of Israel, the ancient book of Genesis with analysis and explanation of its composition (IA mythsofisraelanc00fisk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ages before Moses- a series of lectures on the book of Genesis (IA cu31924029289737).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Jewish Interpretation of the Book of Genesis (Morgenstern, 1919, jewishinterpreta00morg).pdf]]
* [[Index:A commentary upon the first book of Moses called Genesis (IA cuponfi00patr).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [[Index:A commentary upon the first book of Moses, called Genesis (IA comfi00patr).pdf]], 2nd edition, missing pages
* [[Index:A companion to the book of Genesis (IA companiontobook00turn).pdf]]
* [[Index:The law of Moses (IA lawofmoses00navi).pdf]]
* The covenant of nature made with Adam described {{esl|https://archive.org/details/covenantofnature00pync/}}
* [[Index:The history and philosophy of Judaism (IA historyphilosoph00shawiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Intermediate types among primitive folk- a study in social evolution (IA cu31924021843986).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christianity and sex problems (IA cu31924021843259).pdf]]
* [[Index:Source book for social origins; ethnological materials, psychological standpoint, classified and annotated bibliographies for the interpretation of savage society (IA sourcebookforsoc00thomiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sex and society; studies in the social psychology of sex (IA sexsocietystudie00thom).pdf]]
* [[Index:Man and woman (electronic resource) - a study of human secondary sexual characters (IA b20410761).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to systematic philosophy (IA introductiontosy00marv).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to philosophy (IA introductiontoph00flet).pdf]]
* [[Index:Book of Mormon (1830, bookofmormonacco1830smit).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Holy scriptures (IA holyscriptures00smit).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indago astrologica- or a brief and modest enquiry into some principal points of astrology (IA b30333519).pdf]]
* [[Index:An encyclopaedia of occultism a compendium of information on the occult sciences, occult personalities, psychic science, magic, demonology, spiritism and mysticism.djvu]]
* [[Index:The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu]]
* [[Index:Summa Theologica (2nd rev. ed.) - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The abridgment of Christian divinitie.djvu]]
* [[Index:Alcoran of Mahomet 1649.djvu]]
* [[Index:A dictionary of Islam.djvu]]
* [[Index:Thomas Patrick Hughes - Notes on Muhammadanism - 2ed. (1877).djvu]]
* [[Index:The discouerie of witchcraft (1584) (IA b30337367).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Mirror of Alchimy (1597, mirrorofalchimy00baco).djvu]]
* [[Index:The history of Witchcraft and demonology.djvu]]
* [[Index:Three Books of Occult Philosophy (De Occulta Philosophia) (1651).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Magus, or Celestial Intelligencer - Barrett - 1801.djvu]]
* [[Index:St Augustine Of the Citie of God.pdf]]
* [[Index:1582 Rhemes New Testament.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Holy Bible (LSV).pdf]]
* [[Index:Batman upon Bartolome.djvu]]
* [[Index:An analysis of the Egyptian mythology- to which is subjoined, a critical examination of the remains of Egyptian chronology (IA b29350074).pdf]]
* [[Index:Phenomenology of Mind vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Phenomenology of Mind vol 2.djvu]]

====Economic/Social studies/History/Law====
* [[Index:Problems of readjustment after the war (IA problemsofreadju00newy).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of government organization and management (IA principlesofgove00clev).pdf]]
* [[Index:The new spirit of the new army; a message to the &quot;service flag&quot; homes (IA newspiritofnewar00odel).pdf]]
* [[Index:The church in America; a study of the present condition and future prospects of American Protestantism (IA churchinamericas01brow).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/middletownstudyi0000lynd/ Middletown: a study in American culture]
* [[Index:Organized self-government (IA organizedselfgov00daws).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/jewishselfgovern00fink/ Jewish self-government in the middle ages]
* [https://archive.org/details/citiesinevolutio00gedduoft/ Cities in Evolution]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanpublicli0000unse/ The American Public Library and the Diffusion of Knowledge]
* [[Index:Co-operative housekeeping; how not to do it and how to do it (IA cooperativehouse00peir).pdf]]
* [[Index:Akbar and the rise of the Mughal empire; (IA akbarriseofmugha00mallrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Akbar, emperor of India, a picture of life and customs from the sixteenth century (IA akbaremperorofin00garb).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ayeen Akbery; or, The Institutes of the Emperor Akber (IA ayeenakberyorins02abua).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ayeen Akbery; or, The Institutes of the Emperor Akber (IA ayeenakberyorins01abua).pdf]]
* [[Index:Local government in Francia and England- a comparison of the local administration and jurisdiction of the Carolingian empire with that of the West Saxon kingdom (IA localgovernmenti00camhiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The making of the English constitution, 449-1485 (IA makingofenglishc00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The story of the shire, being the lore, history and evolution of English county institutions (IA storyofshirebein00hack).pdf]]
* [[Index:The polity of the ancient Hebrews (IA polityofancienth00sulzrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Am ha-aretz - the ancient Hebrew parliament, a chapter in the constitutional history of ancient Israel (IA cu31924089135754).pdf]], 2nd Printing, 1910
* [[Index:The Am ha-aretz, the ancient Hebrew parliament, a chapter in the constitutional history of ancient Israel (IA amhaaretzancient00sulziala).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/revolutionbyreas0000stra/ Revolution by Reason, an account of the financial proposals submitted by Oswald Mosley at the 33d Independent Labour Party Conference]
* [[Index:The story of rapid transit (IA storyofrapidtran00willrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Interborough rapid transit; the New York subway, its construction and equipment (IA interboroughrapi00interich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ethnologyofakamb00hobluoft/ Ethnology of A-Kamba and other East African Tribes]
* [https://archive.org/details/africapastpresen00mois/ Africa: Past and Present]
* [https://archive.org/details/soulofbantusympa00will_0/ The Soul of the Bantu]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofislando00copl/ A History of the Island of Madagascar]
* [https://archive.org/details/madagascarhistor01oliv/ Madagascar, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/madagascarhistor02oliv/ Madagascar, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/b31516993/ The Antananarivo annual and Madagascar magazine]
* [[Index:The history of Dahomy, an inland kingdom of Africa (IA b28764808).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Visigothic Code.djvu]]
* [[Index:A manual of elementary law (IA cu31924018811376).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/countrytownstudy00andeuoft/ The Country Town]
* [[Index:Principles of American state administration, by John Mabry Mathews. (IA principlesofamer00math).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lectures on Slavonic law, being the Ilchester lectures for the year 1900; (IA cu31924022021566).pdf]]
* [[index:Ideals of America; (IA idealsofamerica00city).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/howesneweracivic00howe/ Howe's new era civics]
* [https://archive.org/details/safeguardingamer00atwoiala Safeguarding american ideals]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanpolitica00merriala/ American political ideas; studies in the development of American political thought 1865-1917]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanthoughtf00rilerich/ American thought: from Puritanism to pragmatism]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924007488954/ The foundations of American foreign policy]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924031446465/ Liberty, Union and Democracy, The National Ideas of America]
* [https://archive.org/details/nationalgovernme00kimbrich/ The national government of the United States]
* [https://archive.org/details/sociallawsagenci00unse/ Social laws and agencies of North Carolina]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanidealsot0000unse/ American ideals, and other essays, social and political]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanismwhati00hillrich/ Americanism, what it is]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanizationp00talb/ Americanization]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanismwhati00hill/ Americanism, what it is]
* [https://archive.org/details/ourdualgovernmen00broo/ Our dual government, studies in Americanism for young people]
* [https://archive.org/details/everydayamerican00canbrich/ Everyday Americans]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofamerican00hopk/ A manual of American ideas]
* [https://archive.org/details/americandemocrac01form/ The American democracy, 1920]
* [https://archive.org/details/americandemocrac00form/ The American Democracy, 1921, 2nd Printing]
* [https://archive.org/details/citizensguideorm00gibs/ The citizens' guide]
* [[Index:Community buildings for industrial towns (IA communitybuildin00comm).pdf]]
* [[index:Rural and small community recreation. Suggestions for utilizing the resources of rural communities; (IA ruralsmallcommun00commrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A course in citizenship and patriotism (IA courseincitizens00cabo).pdf]]
* [[Index:A selected bibliography and syllabus of the history of the South, 1584-1876 (IA selectedbibliogr00boydrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The demonstration work; Dr. Seaman A. Knapp's contribution to civilization (IA demonstrationwor00martrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Party organization and machinery (IA partyorgmachiner00macy).pdf]]
* [[Index:A decade of Negro extension work, 1914-1924 (IA decadeofnegroext72mart).pdf]]
* [[Index:Educational resources of village and rural communities (IA educationalresou00hart).pdf]]
* [[Index:The validity of American ideals (IA validityofameric01math).pdf]]
* [[Index:The church and the community (IA cu31924014043362).pdf]]
* [[Index:Social ideals of a free church (IA socialidealsoffr00forbiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christian Americanization; a task for the churches (IA brookschristiana00broo).pdf]]
* [[Index:America via the neighborhood (IA americavianeighb00danirich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our neighborhood; good citizenship in rural communities (IA cu31924080075959).pdf]]
* [[Index:The free city; a book of neighborhood (IA freecitybookofne00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Neighborhood entertainments (IA cu31924014493542).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rural community organization (IA ruralcommunityor00haye).pdf]]
* [[Index:A community center; what it is and how to organize it (IA communitycenterw00jack).pdf]]
* [[Index:A community church; the story of a minister's experience which led him from the church militant to the church democratic (IA communitychurchs00jackrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Community organization (IA communityorganiz00hartiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/socialservicefor00ward_0/ Social Services for Young People]
* [[Index:Pupil self-government, its theory and practice (IA pupilselfgovernm00cron).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/communityorganiz00stei/ Community Organization: A Study of its Current Theory and Practice]
* [[Index:The little democracy, a text-book on community organization (IA littledemocracyt00clar).pdf]]
* [[Index:The country church and community cooperation (IA countrychurchcom00israrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Local and central government; a comparative study of England, France, Prussia, and the United States (IA localcentralgove00ashl).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal administration in Germany as seen in the government of a typical Prussian city, Halle a-S (IA municipaladminis00jamerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of Prussian administration (IA principlesofprus00jamerich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/governmentadmini0000blac/ The Government and Administration of Germany]
* [[Index:The government of Wyoming - the history, constitution and administration of affairs (IA governmentofwyom00heba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The principles of the administrative law of the United States (IA principlesofadmi00good).pdf]]
* [[Index:Statesman's handbook for Russia (IA statesmanshandbo00russrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warrussiangovern0000unse/ The war and the Russian government. The central government]
* [[Index:Modern customs and ancient laws of Russia; being the Ilchester lectures for 1889-90; (IA cu31924014085983).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lancasteryorkcen01rams/ Lancaster and York, Volume 1]
* [[Index:Lancaster and York; a century of English history (A.D. 1399-1485) (IA cu31924088011436).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:The houses of Lancaster and York, with the conquest and loss of France; (IA housesoflancaste01gair).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warsofroses00mowauoft/ The Wars of the Roses]
* [[Index:Wales and the wars of the Roses (IA waleswarsofroses00evanrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:English towns in the wars of the Roses (IA englishtownsinwa00wins).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal government in Ireland - medieval &amp; modern (IA municipalgovernm00webbrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/mindfaceofbolshe0000unse/ The Mind and Face of Bolshevism]
* [[Index:Men of the old stone age, their environment, life and art (IA menofoldstoneage00osborich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The English in the middle ages; from the Norman usurpation to the days of the Stuarts. Their mode of life, dress, arms, occupations, and amusements. As illustrated in the British Museum (IA englishinmiddlea00hodg).pdf]]
* [[Index:Arms and armour in antiquity and the middle ages - also a descriptive notice of modern weapons (IA b24865990).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/armourweapons00ffouuoft/ Armour &amp; Weapons]
* [https://archive.org/details/treatiseonancien00grosrich/ A treatise on ancient armour and weapons]
* [[Index:An illustrated history of arms and armour from the earliest period to the present time (IA illustratedhisto00demmrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Germany in the later Middle Ages, 1200-1500 (IA germanyinlatermi00stub).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ayliffejuriscanonici/ Parergon Juris Canonici Anglicani]
* [[Index:The Effects of Civilisation on the People in European States.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/developmentofeur0000smit/ The Development of European Law]
* [[Index:The Art of War in the Middle Ages (Chadwick, 1885, artofwarinmiddle00omanuoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:The History of the Isle of Man (1780, historyofisleofm00dubl).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 1 (1101-1377).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 2 (1377-1509).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 3 (1509-47).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 4, Part 1 (1547-84).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 4, Part 2 (1586-1625).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 5 (1628-80).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 6 (1685-94).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 7 (1695-1701).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 8 (1702-7).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 9 (1708-13).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm (Alphabetical Index).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm (Chronological Index).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Laws and Acts of Parliament of Scotland.djvu]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the middle ages (375-814) (IA introductiontost00emer).pdf]]
* [[Index:Villainage in England; essays in English mediaeval history (IA cu31924024908356).pdf]]
* [[Index:Law and politics in the middle ages, with a synoptic table of sources (IA cu31924030432532).pdf]]
* [[Index:De republica Anglorum. The maner of gouernement or policie of the realme of England, compiled by the honorable sir Thomas Smyth .. (IA ita-bnc-mag-00002562-001).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Lexicon of Medieval Nordic Law (OBP.0188, 2020).pdf]]
* [[Index:Runic and heroic poems of the old Teutonic peoples.djvu]]
* [[Index:The riddles of the Exeter book (IA riddlesofexeterb00tupp).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Law of the Westgoths - tr. Bergin - 1906.djvu]]
* [[Index:Laws of the Earliest English Kings.djvu]]
* [[Index:The sources of the law of England - an historical introduction to the study of English law (IA cu31924021687227).pdf]]
* [[Index:George Philips, Lex parliamentaria (1st ed, 1690).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of economics (IA historyofeconomi00macliala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indian currency and finance (IA indiancurrencyfi00keynuoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:An inquiry into the various systems of political economy- their advantages and disadvantages- and the theory most favourable to the increase of national wealth (IA inquiryintovario00gani).pdf]]
* [[Index:National system of political economy (IA nationalsystemof00list).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of political economy; or, Elementary view of the manner in which the wealth of nations is produced, increased, distributed, and consumed (IA introductiontost00boilrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Theory of Moral Sentiments.pdf]]
* [[Index:Treatise on Probability, Keynes, 1921.djvu]]
* [[Index:Monasticon Anglicanum, or, The history of the ancient abbies, and other monasteries, hospitals, cathedral and collegiate churches in England and Wales. With divers French, Irish (IA monasticonanglic00dugd).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of Gothic architecture (IA introductiontost00park 9).pdf]], 1st edition
* [[Index:Architecture; an introduction to the history and theory of the art of building (IA architectureintr00leth 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Race distinctions in American Law (IA racedistinctions00stepiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The law of city planning and zoning (IA lawofcityplannin00williala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The improvement of towns and cities - or, The practical basis of civic aesthetics (IA improvementoftow00robi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern civic art - or, The city made beautiful (IA moderncivicartor00robi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:A decade of civic development (IA decadeofcivicdev00zueb).pdf]]
* [[Index:City planning, with special reference to the planning of streets and lots (IA cu31924064909660).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern city planning and maintenance (IA moderncityplanni00koes).pdf]]
* [[Index:City planning; a series of papers presenting the essential elements of a city plan (IA cityplanningseri00noleiala).pdf]]

=====Labor, Socialism, Anarchism, Communist, Feminism, LGBTQ+=====
* [[Index:Emma Goldman - The Social Significance of the Modern Drama - 1914.djvu]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx and modern socialism (IA karlmarxmodernso00salt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx; his life and work (IA cu31924002310864).pdf]], John Spargo, 1912
* [https://archive.org/details/karlmarxhislifew00rhle/ Karl Marx; his life and work, Otto Ruhle, 1929]
* [[Index:The old freedom (IA oldfreedom00neilrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A History of Socialism.pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/marxianeconomics00unte/ Marxian Economics]
* [https://archive.org/details/mindfaceofbolshe0000unse/ The Mind and Face of Bolshevism]
* [[Index:The revolt of democracy (IA revoltofdemocrac00wallrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/socialismofchris00bierrich/ Socialism of Christ]
* [[Index:German Social Democracy - Six Lectures by Bertrand Russell.djvu]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx - Wage Labor and Capital - tr. Harriet E. Lothrop (1902).djvu]]
* [[Index:The ego and his own (IA egohisown00stiriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ten blind leaders of the blind - by Arthur M. Lewis (IA tenblindleaderso00lewirich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Egoists, a book of supermen- (IA egoistsbookofsu00hune).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/philosophyofegoi00walk/ The Philosophy of Egoism]
* [[Index:Anarchism (Eltzbacher, 1908 English translation).djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Socialist Review (1900-1918), Vol. 1, Issue 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Jungle (1906).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anarchy and Anarchists (Schaack, 1889).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anarchism; a criticism and history of the anarchist theory (IA anarchismcritici00zenkiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Anarchism and socialism (IA anarchismsociali00plek).pdf]]
* [[Index:Trade unionism in the United States (IA cu31924013988195).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of trade unionism in the United States (IA historyoftradeun00perliala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/theoryoflabormov0000seli/ A Theory of the Labor Movement]
* [[Index:Communism in America; (IA communisminameri00jamerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA communistsocieties00nordrich).pdf]], The Communistic Societies of the United States
* [https://archive.org/details/leftwingunionism/ Left Wing Unionism]
* [[Index:Jay Lovestone - Blood and Steel (1923)).djvu]]
* ''History of American Socialisms'' {{esl|https://archive.org/details/historyofamerica00innoye/page/14/mode/2up}}
* [[Index:On labour, its wrongful claims and rightful dues, its actual present and possible future (IA onlabouritswrong00thor).pdf]]
* [[Index:Voluntary socialism; a sketch (IA voluntarysociali00tandrich).pdf]], 2nd edition
* [https://archive.org/details/voluntarysocial01tandgoog/ Voluntary Socialism, 1st Edition]
* [[Index:Arkady Joseph Sack - The Birth of the Russian Democracy (1918).djvu]]
* [[Index:The struggle for existence (IA struggleforexist00millrich).pdf]], First Edition
* [[Index:Direct action (IA directaction00mell).pdf]]

=====Racism, Antisemitism, National Socialism, KKK, Nationalism, Right, etc.=====
* [[Index:The revolt against civilization; the menace of the under man (IA cu31924016895975).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/reddragonblacksh00phil/ The &quot;Red&quot; Dragon and the Black Shirts]
* [https://archive.org/details/pragmaticrevolti00elli/ The pragmatic revolt in politics]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolinipopecom1501mcca/ Mussolini and the Pope]
* [https://archive.org/details/popeormussolini0000hear/ Pope or Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofbenitomuss00sarf/ The Life of Benito Mussolini, 6th Printing, UK Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofbenitomuss0000mang/ The Life of Benito Mussolini, 5th Printing, US Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/isantichristatha0000smit/ Is the Antichrist at hand? What of Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/historicalcauses00trevuoft/ The historical causes of the present state of affairs in Italy]
* [[Index:L. W. - Fascism, Its History and Significance (1924).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/makingfasciststa0000herb/ Making the Fascist State]
* [https://archive.org/details/the-need-for-fascism-in-great-britain The Need for Fascism in Great Britain]
* [https://archive.org/details/fascistdictators0001gaet/ The Fascist Dictatorship in Italy]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolininewital0000alex/ Mussolini and the New Italy]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolini0000unse/ Mussolini as Revealed in His Political Speeches]
* [[Index:Behold Our New Empire Mussolini (IA BeholdOurNewEmpireMussolini).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/1928UniversalAspectsOfFascism/ The Universal Aspects of Fascism, 1st Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/dli.ernet.5084/ The Universal Aspects of Fascism, 2nd Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/italytoday0000foxf/ Italy To-day]
* [https://archive.org/details/thetheoryofminda00gentuoft/ The Theory of Mind as a Pure Act]
* [https://archive.org/details/blackmagic00kenn/ Black Magic]
* [https://archive.org/details/pedigreeoffascis0000alin/ The Pedigree of Fascism]
* [https://archive.org/details/strenuousitalyso00gayh/ Strenuous Italy]
* [[Index:Sociology for the South - or, The failure of free society (IA sociologyforsout00fitz).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cannibals all! or, Slaves without masters (IA cannibalsallorsl00fitz).pdf]]
* [[Index:Negro-Mania- Being an Examination of the Falsely Assumed Equality of the Various Races of Men (IA DKC0100).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/outlawsdiary01tormuoft An Outlaw's Diary, Volume 1: Revolution]
* [https://archive.org/details/outlawsdiary02tormuoft An Outlaw's Diary, Volume 2: The Commune]
* [[Index:Meccania, the super-state (IA meccaniasupersta00greg).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/pangermanleague10000wert/ The Pan-German League]
* [[Index:The pan-Germanic doctrine; being a study of German political aims and aspirations (IA pangermanicdoctr00harrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Pan-germanism, its plans for German expansion in the world (IA pangermanismitsp00andlrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Antisemitism, its history and causes (IA antisemitismitsh00lazaiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/thenegroabeastorintheimageofgod/ &quot;The Negro A Beast&quot;, Or &quot;In The Image Of God&quot;]
* [https://archive.org/details/americannegrodependentdefectivedelinquent/ The American Negro]
* [https://archive.org/details/negroamenacetoamericancivilization/ The Negro]
* [https://archive.org/details/negrosouthernersproblem/ The Negro: The Southernor's Problem]
* [https://archive.org/details/negrocriminality_202001/ Negro Criminality]
* [https://archive.org/details/sexualcrimesamongsouthernnegroes/ Sexual Crimes among the Southern Negroes]
* [https://archive.org/details/whitesupremacyandnegrosubordination/ White Supremacy and Negro Subordination]
* [https://archive.org/details/slaveryasitrela00priegoog/ Slavery, as it Relates to the Negro]
* [[Index:Bible Defence of Slavery.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/TheRiddleOfTheJewsSuccess/ The Riddle of the Jews Success]
* [https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.38804/ Racial Elements Of European History]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 4.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/italyundermussol0000unse/ Italy under Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/romeordeathstory00beal/ Rome or Death! The Story of Fascism]
* [https://archive.org/details/odon-por.-fascism-1923_202107/ Fascism, Odon Por]
* [https://archive.org/details/fascistmovementi00gorguoft/ The Fascist Movement in Italian Life]
* [[Index:My Autobiography (1928) - by Benito Mussolini.pdf]]
* [[Index:The ravings of a renegade ; being the War essays of Houston Stewart Chamberlain (IA ravingsofrenegad00chamrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/foundationsofnin01cham/ The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century], Volume 1
* [https://archive.org/details/foundationsofnin02cham/ The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century], Volume 2
* [[Index:Decline of the West (Volume 1).djvu]]
* [[Index:Decline of the West (Volume 2).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Decline of the West.pdf]], combined Volume, 1932 edition
* [[Index:The inequality of human races (1915).djvu]]
* [[Index:The moral and intellectual diversity of races - with particular reference to their respective influence in the civil and political history of mankind (IA bub gb uRvNQHqLj0kC).pdf]]
* [[Index:The passing of the great race; or, The racial basis of European history (IA passingofgreatra01gran).pdf]], 4th Edition
* [[Index:The passing of the great race; or, The racial basis of European history (IA cu31924029874330).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Ku Klux Klan (H.H. Wilson Reference Shelf) (IA kukluxklan00john).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Klan unmasked, (IA klanunmasked00simm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Catalogue of Official Robes and Banners - Knights of the Ku Klux Klan Incorporated, Atlanta, Georgia (1925) - Catalogueofoffic00kukl.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Ku Klux klan- a study of the American mind (IA kukluxklanastudy00meck).pdf]]
* [[Index:Papers read at the meeting of Grand dragons, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at their first- annual meet (IA papersreadatmeet01kukl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/authentichistor00davi/ Authentic history, Ku Klux Klan, 1865-1877]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924083530117/ The Ku Klux Klan or Invisible Empire]

==== Ancient Rome/Byzantine Studies/Latin/Classics ====
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924028520728/ Syria as a Roman Province]
* [https://archive.org/details/spainunderromane00bouc/ Spain under the Roman Empire]
* [[Index:The Gracchi, Marius, and Sulla (IA cu31924074596879).pdf]]
* [[Index:Seven Roman statesmen of the later republic- The Gracchi. Sulla. Crassus. Cato. Pompey. Caesar (IA sevenromanstates00oman).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romaneducationfr0000gwyn_n9h9/ Roman education from Cicero to Quintilian]
* [[Index:Manual of classical literature (IA manualofclassica00eschrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofhistoryo00mattuoft/ A manual of the history of Greek and Roman literature]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofclassica00morr/ A Manual of Classical Literature]
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212877).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 1
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212885).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 2
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212893).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 3
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern0001unse/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern00sheruoft/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern03sheruoft/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 3]
* [[Index:The Roman empire- essays on the constitutional history from the accession of Domitian (81 A. D.) to the retirement of Nicephorus III (1081 A.D.) (IA romanempireessay01bussiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman empire- essays on the constitutional history from the accession of Domitian (81 A. D.) to the retirement of Nicephorus III (1081 A.D.) (IA romanempireessay02bussiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineempirer0000foor/ The Byzantine Empire]
* [[Index:The history of Greece - from its conquest by the crusaders to its conquest by the Turks, and of the empire of Trebizond ; 1204-1461 (IA historyofgreecef00finl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/fastiromanicivil01clinuoft/ Fasti Romani, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/fastiromanicivil02clinuoft/ Fasti Romani, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/churcheasternemp00toze/ The Church and the Eastern Empire]
* [[Index:Roman society in the last century of the Western empire (IA cu31924028321333).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romansocietyinla0000dill/ roman society in the last century of the western empire, 2nd edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/jurisprudenceofj00ewin/ The Jurisprudence of the Jewish Courts in Egypt]
* [[Index:Some phases of the problem of provincial administration under the Roman republic (IA somephasesofprob00mars).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/phasescorruptio01jollgoog/ Phases of corruption in Roman administration in the last half-century of the Roman republic]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanpoliticalin0000homo_f4f9/ Roman political institutions from city to state]
* [[Index:A history of Rome to 565 A. D. (IA cu31924028286726).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofrometo500boak_0/ A history of Rome to 565 A.D., 2nd Edition, 1929]
* [[Index:A general history of Rome from the foundation of the city to the fall of Augustulus, B.C. 753-A.D. 476 (IA cu31924031259587).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rome- from the fall of the western empire (IA romefromfallofwe00trev).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/studyofcognomina00deanuoft/ A study of the cognomina of soldiers in the Roman legions]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlegions0000park_q5m2/ The Roman Legions]
* [https://archive.org/details/sourcebookofroma0000munr/ A source book of Roman history]
* [[Index:Was the Roman army provided with medical officers? (electronic resource) (IA b21464625).pdf]]
* [[Index:Infamia- its place in Roman public and private law (IA cu31924021131531).pdf]]
* [[Index:The reorganization of Spain by Augustus (IA reorganization00vannrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/publiclibrariesl00boyduoft/ Public Libraries and Literary Culture in Ancient Rome]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofrome00leigiala/ A History of Rome]
* [https://archive.org/details/greeceunderroman00finluoft/ Greece under the Romans]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineportrai00dieh/ Byzantine Portraits]
* [https://archive.org/details/expressesofconta0000unse/ The Empresses of Constantinople]
* [[Index:Roman public life (IA romanpubliclife00greeiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Arab conquest of Egypt and the last thirty years of the Roman dominion (IA arabconquestofeg00butl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/jurisprudenceofj00ewin/ The Jurisprudence of the Jewish Courts in Egypt]
* [https://archive.org/details/greekromanfolklo0000hall_x8n7/ Greek and Roman Folklore]
* [[Index:Public lands and agrarian laws of the Roman republic- (IA publiclandsagrar00step).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sixromanlaws00harduoft/ Six Roman Laws]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/twostudiesinlate0000unse/ Two studies in later Roman and Byzantine administration]
* [https://archive.org/details/freshlightonroma0000jone/ Fresh Light on Roman Bureaucracy]
* [https://archive.org/details/christianityroma0000addi/ Christianity and the Roman Empire]
* [[Index:Christianity and the Roman government (IA christianityroma00hardrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early Christians in Rome (1911).djvu]]
* [[Index:Historical revelations of the relation existing between Christianity and paganism since the disintegration of the Roman Empire (IA historicalrevela00juli).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Christians in Rome (IA christiansinrome00mobe).pdf]]
* [[Index:Woman ; her position and influence in ancient Greece and Rome, and among the early Christians .. (IA womanherposition00donarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The story of the Romans; (IA storyromans00guergoog).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman Africa; an outline of the history of the Roman occupation of North Africa, based chiefly upon inscriptions and monumental remains in that country (IA cu31924028722134).pdf]]
* [[Index:An outline of Greek and Roman history, the result of class room work (IA outlineofgreekro00chad).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/the-illustrated-history-of-rome-and-the-roman-empire-1877/ The Illustrated History of Rome And The Roman Empire]
* [https://archive.org/details/christianitynati00wooduoft/ Christianity and Nationalism in the Later Roman Empire]
* [[Index:The conversion of the Roman empire (IA conversionofrom00meri).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintohi00ihneuoft/ Researches into the history of the Roman constitution]
* [[Index:Traces of Greek philosophy and Roman law in the New Testament (IA cu31924029302423).pdf]]
* [[Index:UPenn-Translations and Reprints-vol6.djvu]]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161302).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161344).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161310).pdf]], Volume 3
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161419).pdf]], Volume 4 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr04greg/ Volume 4 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161351).pdf]], Volume 5 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr05greg/ Volume 5 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161369).pdf]], Volume 6 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityo06greguoft/ Volume 6 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161377).pdf]], Volume 7 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr07greg/ Volume 7 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161385).pdf]], Volume 8 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr08greg/ Volume 8 Part 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancienttownplan00have/ Ancient Town-planning]
* [[Index:The Ancient City- A Study on the Religion, Laws, and Institutions of Greece and Rome.djvu]]
* [[Index:Physical science in the time of Nero; being a translation of the Quaestiones naturales of Seneca (IA physicalsciencei00seneiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman and the Teuton; a series of lectures delivered before the University of Cambridge (IA romanteutonserie01king).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineartarch00dalt/ Byzantine Art and Archaeology]
* [[Index:The history of Etruria .. (IA historyofetruria01gray).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:The history of Etruria .. (IA historyofetruria02gray).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:The cities and cemeteries of Etruria (IA etruriacitiesand01denniala).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:The cities and cemeteries of Etruria (IA etruriacitiesand02denniala).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:Etruria-Celtica- Etruscan Literature and Antiquities Investigated, in Two Volumes, Vol. I (IA dli.granth.53608).pdf]], Volume 1
* [https://archive.org/details/etruriacelticaet02beth/ Etruria-Celtica] Volume 2
* [https://archive.org/details/etruscanresearch00tayl/ Etruscan Researches]
* [[Index:Etruscan inscriptions (IA etruscaninscript00crawrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Etruscan Bologna- a study (IA etruscanbolognas00burtiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman imperialism (IA romanimperialism00fran).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tacitus and Other Roman Studies.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/invasionofeurope0000jbbu/ the invasion of europe by the barbarians]
* [[Index:A constitutional and political history of Rome, from the earliest times to the reign of Domitian (IA cu31924030431435).pdf]]
* [[Index:The development of the Roman constitution (IA developmentofrom00tighrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Coins of the Romans relating to Britain, described and illustrated (IA coinsofromansrel00aker).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the ancient Britons, from the earliest period to the invasion of the Saxons (IA historyofancient00gile).pdf]]
* [[Index:The invasion of Britain by Julius Caesar (IA invasionofbritai00lewi).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman era in Britain (IA romanerainbritai00wardiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Romanization of Roman Britain (IA romanizationofro00haverich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman roads in Britain (IA romanroadsinbrit00codr).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Celt, the Roman, and the Saxon; (IA celtromansaxon00wrig).pdf]]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient Britain in the light of modern archaeological discoveries (IA ancientbritainin00delm).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintoec01thac/ Researches into the ecclesiastical and political state of ancient Britain under the Roman emperors, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintoec02thac/ Researches into the ecclesiastical and political state of ancient Britain under the Roman emperors, Volume 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofpictsor00abbauoft/ A History of the Picts or Romano-British Wall]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanfrontierpos0000jame/ A Roman frontier post and its people]
* [[Index:Illustrations of Roman London (IA illustrationsofr00smitrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/londiniumarchite0000wrle/ Londinium Architecture and the Crafts]
* [https://archive.org/details/ourromanhighways00forbuoft/ Our Roman Highways]
* [[Index:History of Romulus (IA historyofromulusabbott).pdf]]
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00don).pdf]]
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the ethnography of ancient Italy and to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00donarich).pdf]], 2nd edition.
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the ethnography of ancient Italy and to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00dona).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [https://archive.org/details/primitiveitalybe0000homo/ Primitive Italy and the beginnings of Roman imperialism]
* [https://archive.org/details/stonebronzeagesi00peetuoft/ The stone and bronze ages in Italy and Sicily]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineempire00foor/ The Byzantine Empire (Edward Foord)]
* [[Index:The Byzantine Empire (IA byzantineempire00omanrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on Byzantine music (IA cu31924022269744).pdf]]
* [[Index:Constantine the Great; the reorganisation of the empire and the triumph of the church (IA constantinegreat00firt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Constantine, the last emperor of the Greeks; or, The conquest of Constantinople by the Turks (A.D. 1453) after the latest historical researches; (IA constantinelaste00mijarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine history in the early Middle Ages; the Rede lecture, delivered in the Senate House, Cambridge, June 12, 1900 (IA cu31924005774702).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine architecture; illustrated by examples of edifices erected in the East during the earliest ages of Christianity, with historical &amp; archaeological descriptions (IA gri 33125009314648).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman emperor worship (IA cu31924028269490).pdf]]
* [[Index:The last Cæsars of Byzantium (IA lastcsarsofbyzan00todi).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Latins in the Levant - a history of Frankish Greece, 1204-1566 (IA latinsinlevanthi00mill 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Fall of Constantinople.djvu]]
* [[Index:Destruction of the Greek Empire.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Romane historie (IA romanehistorie00livy).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman assemblies from their origin to the end of the republic (IA cu31924030431534).pdf]]
* [[Index:The imperial civil service of Rome (IA imperialcivilser00matt).pdf]]
* [[Index:A handbook of Greek constitutional history (IA handbookofgreekc00gree).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romeregalrepubli00striuoft/ Rome, Regal and Republican]
* [https://archive.org/details/dayinoldromepic00davi/ A Day in Old Rome]
* [[Index:The general, civil and military administration of Noricum and Raetia (IA generalcivilmili00peakrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Life and letters in Roman Africa microform (IA lifelettersinrom00boucrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Romae antiquae notitia, or, The antiquities of Rome - in two parts ... - with copper cuts of the principal buildings, etc. - to which are prefix'd two essays (IA romaeantiquaenot00kenn 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:A manual of Greek literature - from the earliest authentic periods to the close of the Byzantine era (IA manualgreek00anthrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/studentscompanio00midd/ The student's companion to Latin authors]
* [[Index:Loeb Classical Library, L001 (1919).djvu]]
* A History of the Republic of Rome {{esl|https://archive.org/details/historyofrepubli00bake/}}
* [[Index:Philological museum (IA cu31924104094903).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:Philological Museum v2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 1, 1854.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 2, 1855.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 3, 1857.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 4, 1859.djvu]]
* [[Index:Harper's dictionary of classical literature and antiquities (IA cu31924027019482).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities (1842, dictionaryofgree00smit 5).djvu]]
* [[Index:The auxilia of the Roman Imperial Army (IA auxiliaofromanim00cheerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1827) Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Topography and Monuments of Ancient Rome (1st Ed., Plattner, 1904, topographymonume0000plat v8a2).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine Constantinople - the walls of the city and adjoining historical sites (IA byzantineconstan00vanm).pdf]]
* A Companion To Latin Studies {{esl|https://archive.org/details/companiontolatin00sand/}}
* [[Index:A handbook of Rome and the Campagna (IA handbookofromeca00john 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Stories of ancient Rome (IA storiesofancient00rico).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early Rome (IA earlyrome00ihne).pdf]]
* [[Index:Men, events, lawyers, politics and politicians of early Rome (IA meneventslawyers00wage).pdf]]
* [[Index:State and family in early Rome (IA statefamilyinear00launiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The seven kings of the Seven Hills (IA sevenkingsofseve00lain).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_T2-CGU-516/ Rome of the Kings: An Archaeological Setting for Livy and Vergil]
* [[Index:The history of the kings of Rome. With a prefatory dissertation on its sources and evidence (IA historyofkingsof00dyerrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The kings of Rome (IA kingsofrome00rico).pdf]]
* [[Index:Regal Rome, an Introduction to Roman History (1852, Newman, London, regalromeintrodu00newmuoft).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_T2-CGU-516/ Rome of the Kings: An Archaeological Setting for Livy and Vergil]
* [https://archive.org/details/primitivefortif00parkgoog/ The primitive fortifications of the city of Rome, 2nd Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/handbookofromanl0000radi/ handbook of roman law]
* [[Index:The origin and history of contract in Roman law down to the end of the republican period - being the Yorke prize essay for the year 1893 (IA cu31924021131366).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_a-new-pandect-of-roman-c_ayliffe-john_1734/ A new pandect of Roman civil law]
* [[Index:Preliminary Lecture to the Course of Lectures on the Institutions of Justinian (Wilde, 1794, bim eighteenth-century preliminary-lecture-to-t wilde-john 1794).pdf]]
* An introduction to the study of Justinian's digest {{esl|https://archive.org/details/introductiontost00roby/}}
* [[Index:The ecclesiastical edicts of the Theodosian code (IA ecclesiasticaled00boydrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/legacyofrome00bail/ The Legacy of Rome]
* [[Index:Nomos Rhodon nautikos. The Rhodian sea-law (IA nomosrhodonnauti00byzarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early Roman Law, The Regal Period (Clark, 1872, earlyromanlawreg00claruoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:Roman Britain (Collingwood, First Ed., 1924, b29827590).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical introduction to the private law of Rome (IA historicalintrod00muiriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Gaii institutionum iuris civilis commentarii quattuor, or, Elements of Roman law by Gaius (Poste, Third Edition, 1890, gaiiinstitution00gaiu).djvu]]
* [[Index:A history and description of Roman political institutions (IA historyanddescri00abbo).pdf]]
* [[Index:Britannia Romana, or, The Roman Antiquities of Britain in Three Books (britanniaromanao00hors, John Horsley, 1732).djvu]]
* [[Index:The municipalites of the Roman empire (IA municipalitesofr00reidrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Selected Letters of Cicero (Abbott, 1897, selectedletterso0000cice u2i6).pdf]]
* [[Index:Society and politics in ancient Rome; essays and sketches (IA cu31924087980326).pdf]]
* [[Index:The common people of ancient Rome- studies of Roman life and literature (IA cu31924028267841).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman system of provincial administration to the accession of Constantine the Great, being the Arnold prize essay for 1879 (IA romansystemofpro00arnoiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/twostudiesinlate0000unse/ Two Studies in Later Roman and Byzantine Administration]
* [[Index:The imperial administrative system in the ninth century, with a revised text of Kletorologion of Philotheos (IA imperialadminist00buryrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal Administration in the Roman Empire (1926, Abbot and Johnson, municipaladminis00abbo).pdf]]

==== Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics ====
* [[Index:Pseudodoxia epidemica, or, Enquiries into very many received tenents, and commonly presumed truths (IA b30335760).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cycling (IA cyclingc00alberich).pdf]], Cycling, Badminton Library, 5th Edition
* [[Index:The bicycle- its care and repair (IA bicycleitscarere00vonc).pdf]]
* [[Index:https://archive.org/details/commonsenseofbic00ward/]], Bicycling for ladies
* [https://archive.org/details/helptotheunlearn00trimuoft/ A help to the unlearned in the study of the Holy Scriptures]
* [[Index:Origin of Modern Calculating Machines.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.2.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.3.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.4.djvu]]
* [[Index:A general history of mathematics from the earliest times to the middle of the eighteenth century (IA generalhistoryof00bossrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The teaching and history of mathematics in the United States (IA teachinghistoryo00cajorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Higher mathematics - a textbook for classical and engineering colleges (IA highermathematic00merrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to mathematics, by A. N. Whitehead (IA introductiontoma00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cornell University Library digitization (IA cu31924001078777).pdf]], Mathematical Dictionary and Cyclopedia of Mathematical Science
* [https://archive.org/details/principlesofmech00hertuoft/ The Principles of Mechanics]
* [[Index:Collected papers in physics and engineering (IA collectedpapersi00thomrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Theory of functions of a complex variable (IA functcomplexvari00forsrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the elements of the differential and integral calculus (IA introductiontost00harnrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on elementary trigonometry (IA treatiseonelemen00lockrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Elementary trigonometry (IA elementarytrigon00paterich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Earliest arithmetics in English (IA earliestarithmet00alexrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical introduction to mathematical literature (IA cu31924064123536).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/calculus0000henr/ Calculus]
* [https://archive.org/details/electiccircuitth0000john Electric Circuit Theory and the Operational Calculus]
* [[Index:Graphical and mechanical computation (IA cu31924004667550).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on computation; an account of the chief methods for contracting and abbreviating arithmetical calculations (IA treatiseoncomput00langiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to mathematics, by A. N. Whitehead (IA introductiontoma00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Daedalus; or, Science and the Future (1924, E.P. Dutton &amp; Company).pdf]]
* [[Index:Science (journal) Volume 1 1883.djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 1 (1837).djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 2 (1841).djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 3 (1843).djvu]]
* [[Index:Getty Research Institute (IA economiccottageb00dwye).pdf]], The Economic Cottage Builder
* [[Index:Elements of angling; a book for beginners (IA elementsofanglin00sherrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A book on angling; being a complete treatise on the art of angling in every branch (IA bookonanglingbei00franrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Fishcraft, a treatise on fresh water fish and fishing (IA fishcrafttreatis00pond).pdf]]
* [[Index:The potter's craft - a practical guide for the studio and workshop (IA potterscraftprac00binn 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of camping and woodcraft - a guidebook for those who travel in the wilderness (IA bookofcampingwoo00keph).pdf]]
* [[Index:Camp craft, modern practice and equipment (IA campcraftmodernp00millrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Camp kits and camp life (IA campkitscamplife00hankiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of woodcraft (IA bookofwoodcraft00seto).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of woodcraft and Indian lore (IA bookofwoodcrafti02seto).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Harper's camping and scouting; an outdoor guide for American boys; (IA harperscampingsc00grinrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Shelters, shacks, and shanties (IA sheltersshackssh01bear).pdf]]
* [[Index:The electric telegraph - its history and progress.. (IA electrictelegrap00highrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Electricity, magnetism, and electric telegraphy; a practical guide and hand-book of general information for electrical students, operators, and inspectors (IA electricitymagne00lockrich).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1883
* [[Index:Electricity, magnetism, and electric telegraphy; a practical guide and hand-book of general information for electrical students, operators, and inspectors (IA electricitymagne00lock).pdf]], 3rd Edition, 1890
* [[Index:Davis's manual of magnetism - including galvanism, magnetism, electro-magnetism, electro-dynamics, magneto-electricity, and thermo-electricity (IA davissmanualofma00davi).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical sketch of the electric telegraph including its rise and progress in the United States (IA historicalsketch00jonerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity and galvanism; with cases, shewing their effects in the cure of diseases (IA b22042684).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity - in six sections ... (IA introductiontoel1770ferg).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity. In six sections ... - illustrated with copper plates (IA b30501350).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity. In six sections ... (IA introductiontoel00ferg).pdf]], 3rd Edition]]
* [https://archive.org/details/dynamoelectricit00pres/ Dynamo-electricity]
* [https://archive.org/details/radioactivit00ruth/ Radio-activity]
* [https://archive.org/details/electronnuclearp0000jbar/ Electrons and Nuclear Physics]
* [https://archive.org/details/ionselectronsion00crowuoft/ Ions, Electrons, and Ionizing Radiations]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29927997/ Atoms and Rays]
* [[Index:Atomic theories (IA atomictheories00loririch).pdf]]
* [[Index:X-ray manual - U.S. Army (IA xraymanualusarmy00unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl01amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl02amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl03amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl04amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:The study of the atom - or, The foundation of chemistry (IA studyofatomorfou00venarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The method of fluxions and infinite series.djvu]]
* [[Index:Practical observations on the generation of statical electricity by the electrical machine (IA 101208559.nlm.nih.gov).pdf]]
* [[Index:American Journal of Mathematics Vol. 2 (1879).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of radio communication (IA principlesofradi00morerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Electrical machine design; the design and specification of direct and alternating current machinery .. (IA electricalmachin00grayrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Incandescent wiring hand-book, (IA incandescentwiri00badt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Bell System Technical Journal, Volume 1, 1922.pdf]]
* [[Index:Science Advances, Volume 8, Issue 44, Recursive sequence generation in crows (sciadv.abq3356).pdf]]
* [[Index:An Investigation of the Laws of Thought (1854, Boole, investigationofl00boolrich).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anatomy of the Human Body (1918).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/b30322704/ An Institution Trigonometricall, 1635]
* [https://archive.org/details/McGillLibrary-rbsc_elements-geometrie-evclide-megara_folioQA31E867131570-21289/ Euclid's Geometrie, 1570]
* [[Index:Mr. Wingate's Arithmetick Containing a Plain and Familiar Method, for Attaining the Knowledge and Practice of Common Arithmetick (7th Edition, Edmund Wingate, 1678, b30342211).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mathematical Recreations or, a Collection of many Problems Extracted out of the Ancient and Modern Philosophers (Jean Leurechon, 1674, b30325882).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lux Mercatoria - Bridges - 1661.djvu]]
* [[Index:First book of mathematics, being an easy and practical introduction to the study; for self-instruction and use in schools (IA firstbookofmathe00reidrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indian Basketry.djvu]]
* [[Index:Machinery's Handbook, (6th Edition, 1924, machineryshandbo00indu).pdf]]
* [[Index:De re metallica (1912).djvu]]

=====Nature, Zoology, Entomology, Myrmecology, and other Insects and Animals=====
* [[Index:Chapters on ants (IA chaptersonants00trearich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Observations on the biology of the imported fire ant (IA observationsonbi49inse).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/collectedpaperso00whee/ Collected Papers on Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/biologicalembryo00tanq_0/ Biological and embryological studies on Formicidae]
* [[Index:Comparative studies in the psychology of ants and of higher animals (IA comparativestudi00wasmiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/learningorientat00schn/ Learning and Orientation in Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.460830/ Ants, by Julian Huxley...need better scan]
* [https://archive.org/details/demonsofdust0000will/ Demons of the Dust: A Study in Insect Behavior]
* [https://archive.org/details/sociallifeamongi00whee/ Social Life Among the Insects]
* [[Index:Life in an ant hill, (IA lifeinanthill00writ).pdf]]
* [[Index:Insect architecture (IA b22026885).pdf]], 1830, 1st Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/antpeople0000ewer/ The Ant People]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_P9-CSD-957/ Busy: The Life of Ant], novel
* [[Index:Ants and the children of the garden, relating the habits of the black harvester ant, and giving considerable information about ants in general (IA antsthechildreno00simkrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Field book of insects (IA fieldbookofins00lutz).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Field book of insects, with special reference to those of northeastern United States, aiming to answer common questions (IA fieldbookofinsec00lutz).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Ants and their ways, with illustrations, and an appendix giving a complete list of genera and species of the British ants (IA antstheirwayswit00whit).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/naturescraftsmen00mcco/ Nature's Craftsmen]
* [[Index:Ant communities and how they are governed; a study in natural civics (IA antcommunitiesho00mcco).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ants, Wheeler (1910).djvu]]
* [[Index:Ants and some other insects; an inquiry into the psychic powers of these animals (IA antssomeotherins00fore).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA treatiseofbuggss00sout).pdf]], A treatise of buggs
* [[Index:Insect transformations (IA b22027191).pdf]]
* [[Index:Institutions of entomology- being a translation of Linnaeus's Ordines et genera insectorum; or, Systematic arrangement of insects (IA CUbiodiversity1115923).pdf]]
* [[Index:The elements of insect anatomy; an outline for the use of students in the entomological laboratories of Cornell University and Leland Stanford Junior University (IA elementsofinsect00comsto).pdf]]
* [[Index:The entomologist's text book - an introduction to the natural history, structure, physiology and classification of insects, including the Crustacea and Arachnida (IA entomologiststex00westw).pdf]]
* [[Index:The natural history of ants (IA b29289981).pdf]]
* [[Index:The natural history of insects (IA b28755741).pdf]]
* [[Index:An Account of English Ants (Gould, 1747, IA accountofenglish00goul).pdf]]
* [[Index:Journal of the Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia (IA journalofacademy01acaduoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Aristotle - History of Animals, 1883.djvu]]
* [[Index:The play of animals (IA playofanimals00groouoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Animals at work and play - their activities and emotions (IA animalsatworkpla00cornuoft).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Animals at work and play, their activities and emotions (IA animalsatworkpla00cornrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/animalsatworkpla00corn/ Animals at Work and Play, 3rd Edition]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb01aalba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb02alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb03alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb04alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb05alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb06alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb07alba).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/psychobiology01baltuoft/ Psychobiology V1]
* [https://archive.org/details/psychobiology02baltuoft/ Psychobiology V2]
* [[Index:Ants, bees, and wasps. A record of observations on the habits of the social Hymenoptera (IA antsbeeswaspsrec00john).pdf]]
* [[Index:The bee and white ants, their manners and habits - with illustrations of animal instinct and intelligence - from &quot;The museum of science and art&quot; ... (IA beewhiteantsthei00lardrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofwhiteant00maet/ The Life of the White Ant], plagiarized from [[The Soul of the White Ant]] by [[Author:Eugène Nielen Marais|Eugène Nielen Marais]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofant0000maet/ The Life of the Ant]
* [[Index:Mind in animals (IA mindinanimals00bchniala).pdf]]
* [[Index:British ants, their life-history and classification (IA britishantstheir00donirich).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1915
* [https://archive.org/details/britishants0000jkdo/ British Ants, 2nd Edition, 1927]
* [https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/002009241/ The Guests of British Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/hymenopteraacule00saun/ The Hymenoptera Aculeata of the British Islands]
* [[Index:Elementary lessons in zoölogy - a guide in studying animal life and structure in field and laboratory (IA elementarylesso00need).pdf]]
* [[Index:Some common mushrooms and how to know them (IA somecommonmushr143char).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/fungihowtoknowth00swan/ Fungi and How to Know Them]
* [https://archive.org/details/britishsocialwas00ormeuoft/ British Social Wasps]

====Fantasy, Fiction, Poetry, Tolkien, Etc.====
* [[Index:The story of Sigurd the Volsung and the fall of the Niblungs (IA storyofsigurdvol00morriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Translation of the Anglo-Saxon Poem of Beowulf (Kemble 1837).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Worm Ouroboros - 1922.djvu]]
* [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]
* [[Index:Tolkien - A middle English Vocabulary.djvu]]
* [[Index:Fourteenth_Century_Verse_and_Prose_-_Sisam_-_1921.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Review of English Studies Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Mabinogion; (IA mabinogion00schrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The gods of Pegana (IA godsofpegana00duns).pdf]]
* [[Index:John Martin Crawford - The Kalevala (Vol 1) - (IA cu31924026852917).pdf]]
* [[Index:John Martin Crawford - The Kalevala (Vol 2) - (IA cu31924030974038).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early English romances in verse- (IA earlyenglishroma00rickrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Middle English reader - edited, with grammatical introduction notes, and glossary (IA middleenglishrea00emerrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The most delectable history of Reynard the Fox; (IA mostdelectablehi00jacorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The most delectable history of Reynard the Fox, and of his son Reynardine - a revised version of an old romance (IA mostdelectablehi00londiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Reynard the Fox, a poem in twelve cantos (IA reynardfoxpoemin00hollrich).pdf]]

====Games, Tabletop, Wargame, Military, RPG, Videogame, etc.====
* [[Index:Ship and gun drills, United States navy, 1905 (IA shipgundrillsuni00unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:Naval administration and warfare - some general principles, with other essays (IA navaladministrat00maha).pdf]]
* [[Index:Naval administration and warfare (IA navaladministrat01maha).pdf]], 1918 reprint
* [[Index:Routine book, including general features of organization, administration, and ordinary station bills (IA routinebookinclu00belk).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/yashkamylifeaspe00bochuoft/ Yashka, my life as peasant, exile and soldier]
* [[Index:An account of the organization of the army of the United States (IA orgzofthearmyusa01robirich).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:An account of the organization of the army of the United States (IA orgofthearmyusa01robirich).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:Military and naval America (IA militaryandnaval00kerriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Routine book, including general features of organization, administration, and ordinary station bills (IA routinebookinclu00belk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Yankee navy (IA yankeenavy00mass).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Yankee mining squadron; or, Laying the North sea mine barrage (IA yankeeminingsqua00belk).pdf]]
* [[Index:779th Radar Squadron (ADC) Opheim AFS Montana New Personnel Brochure 1973.pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancientmodernshi00holmuoft/ Ancient and Modern Ships: Part I]
* [https://archive.org/details/sailingshipsstor00chatuoft/ Sailing ships : the story of their development from earliest times to the present day]
* [[Index:The British navy (IA cu31924030756146).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ships of the Royal Navy (IA shipsofroyalnavy00park).pdf]]
* [[Index:The British Navy from within (IA britishnavyfromw00exrorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The British navy in battle (IA britishnavyinbat00poll).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/popularhistoryof00kinguoft/ A Popular history of the British Navy from the earliest times to the present]
* [[Index:The Royal Navy (IA cu31924028018574).pdf]]
* [[Index:The German army in war (IA germanarmyinwar00atterich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Handbook on German army identification (IA handbookongerman02unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:The war book of the German general staff; being &quot;the usages of war on land&quot; issued by the great general staff of the German army; (IA warbookofgermang00newyiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The German army. Department of military art, the Army service schools (IA germanarmydepart00bjorrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes on field fortifications (IA notesonfieldfort00armyrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military organization of the United States (IA militaryorganiza00comm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Army and Navy Uniforms and Insignia (Williams, 1918, armynavyuniforms00will).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military and naval recognition book; a handbook on the organization, insignia of rank, and customs of the service of the world's important armies and navies (IA militarynavalrec00bunkrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Military and naval recognition book, a handbook on the organization, insignia of rank, and customs of the service of the world's important armies and navies (IA recognitionmilitary00bunkrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Orders, decorations and insignia, military and civil; with the history and romance of their origin and a full description of each (IA ordersdecoration00wyllrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military Organization and Administration (Collins, 1918, militaryorganiza00colluoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Organization; how armies are formed for war (IA organizationhowa00fostiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Company administration - preparation, disposition, and filing of company records, reports, and returns (IA c00ompanyadministrunitrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Dungeons &amp; Dragons System Reference Document.pdf]]
* [[Index:John Banks Wilson - Maneuver and Firepower (1998).djvu]]
* [[Index:FM-34-45-Tactics-Techniques-and-Procedures-for-Electronic-Attack.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fm100-2-3 - The Soviet Army, Troops, Organization, and Equipment.pdf]]
* [[Index:United States Army Field Manual 3-13 Information Operations.djvu]]

====Asia====
* [[Index:Eastern Asia, a history, being the second edition of A brief history of eastern Asia, entirely rewritten (IA easternasiahisto00hannrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofchinabe0000unse/ A History of China]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancienthistoryof00hirtuoft/ The ancient history of China to the end of the Chóu dynasty]
* [[Index:A little history of China, and a Chinese story (IA littlehistoryofc00brebiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of China; (IA historyofchina00will).pdf]]
* [[Index:The three religions of China; lectures delivered at Oxford (IA cu31924023204062).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tibet, Tartary, and Mongolia ; their social and political condition, and the religion of Boodh, as there existing (IA tibettartarymong00prin).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of tea - a Japanese harmony of art culture and the simple life (IA bookofteajapanes00okakrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of Corea, ancient and modern - with description of manners and customs, language and geography (IA cu31924023564549).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of Corea, Ancient and Modern; with Description of Manners and Customs, Language and Geography WDL2374.pdf]], Cheaper Edition, 1891.
* [https://archive.org/details/anglicanchurchin00corf/ The Anglican Church in Corea]
* [[Index:Corea, the hermit nation. I. Ancient and mediaeval history. II. Political and social Corea. III. Modern and recent history (IA coreahermitnatio00grif).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/coreawithoutwith00grif_0/ Corea, Without and Within]
* [[Index:Who is God in China.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924023233947/ The early institutional life of Japan]
* [[Index:The development of religion in Japan (IA developmentofrel00knoxrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The religions of Japan - from the dawn of history to the era of Méiji - by William Elliott Griffis (IA religionsofjapan00grifrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/japanaccountgeog00macfuoft/ Japan]
* [https://archive.org/details/ost-art-japaneseart00hartuoft/ Japanese Art]
* [[Index:Old and new Japan (IA oldnewjapan00hollrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Japan as it was and is. (IA japanasitwasis00hild 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Japanese empire- its physical, political, and social condition and history; with details of the late American and British expeditions (IA japaneseempireit01kemi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Japanese empire and its economic conditions (IA japaneseempireit00daut).pdf]]
* [[Index:The present state of the medical administration of the Japanese empire (IA presentstateofme00japaiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Japan - its architecture, art, and art manufactures (IA japanitsarchitec00dres 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:China, Japan and Korea (IA chinajapankorea00blan).pdf]]
* [[Index:Korea (IA korea00coul).pdf]]
* [[Index:Quaint Korea (IA quaintkorea00milnrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Kaempfer History of Japan 1727 vol 2 (IA historyofjapangi02kaem).pdf]]
* [[Index:Kaempfer History of Japan 1727 vol 1 (IA historyofjapangi01kaem).pdf]]
* [[Index:A dissertation on the theology of the Chinese, - with a view to the elucidation of the most appropriate term for expressing the Diety in the Chinese language. (IA dissertationonth00medhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Abstract of four lectures on Buddhist literature in China - delivered at University college, London (IA cu31924023158607).pdf]]
* [[Index:Index:The Chinese Classics - Legge - 2nd ed - 1893 - Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Synoptical studies in the Chinese character (1874).djvu]]
* [[Index:Elementary Chinese - San Tzu Ching (1900).djvu]]
* [[Index:An Anglo-Chinese vocabulary of the Ningpo dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Easy sentences in the Hakka dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:A dictionary of the Hakka dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Chinese-English Dictionary Hakka-dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:Nestorian Monument - Carus.djvu]]
* [[Index:An alphabetical index to the Chinese encyclopaedia.pdf]]
* [[Index:Sun Tzu on The art of war.djvu]]
* [[Index:A Chinese Biographical Dictionary.djvu]]
* [[Index:Pekinese Rhymes (G. Vitale, 1896).djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese Life in the Tibetan Foothills.djvu]]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA dictionaryofhokk00medhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Excellent ancient adages, together with notes on the writings of Chinese romanized in the Hokkien dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Essays on the Chinese Language (1889).djvu]]
* [[Index:A short history of China; an account for the general reader of an ancient empire and people (IA sh00orthistoryofchboulrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:A short history of China; an account for the general reader of an ancient empire and people (IA shorthistoryofch00boulrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:A history of China from the earliest days down to the present (IA cu31924091024392).pdf]]
* [[Index:The unveiled East (IA unveiledeast00mcke).pdf]]
* [[Index:Letters from the Far East (IA lettersfromfarea00evan).pdf]]
* [[Index:China and the Far East (IA chinafareast00blak).pdf]]
* [[Index:China and the Far East, 1889-99 - contribution toward a bibliography (IA cu31924023967734).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/gpl_1856272/ The Morals of Confucius, 1691]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA chinesenovelstra00davirich).pdf|Chinese novels, translated from the originals]]
* [[Index:Notes on Chinese literature (IA notesonchineseli00wyli).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/chunsilinghistor00londiala/ Chun and Si-Ling]
* [[Index:The Far East (IA fareast00litt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Provinces of China, together with a history of the first year of H.I.M. Hsuan Tung, and an account of the government of China .. (IA provincesofchina00bruciala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Ceremonial Usages of the Chinese, B. C. 1121- Being an Abridgement of the Chow Le Classic (IA ceremonialusage00hugoog).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/civilizationofch00gileiala/ The Civilization of China]
* [[Index:A general view of Chinese civilization and of the relations of the West with China (IA generalviewofchi00laffrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sidelights on Chinese Life (sidelightsonchin00macg, 1907, MacGowan).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of Chinese literature - Giles.djvu]]
* [[Index:Notable women of modern China (IA notablewomenofmo00burt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The education of women in Japan (IA educationofwomen00burt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The education of girls in China (IA educationofgirls00lewi).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/chinesetheireduc00martiala/ The Chinese: their education, philosophy, and letters]
* [[Index:The lore of Cathay - or, The intellect of China (IA loreofcathayorin00martrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:China's only hope - an appeal (IA chinasonlyhopeap00zhan).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese Empire. A General &amp; Missionary Survey.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/educationofwomen00burtuoft/ The Education of Women in China]
* [[Index:Modern education in China (IA moderneducationi00tang).pdf]]
* [[Index:The educational system of China as recently reconstructed (IA educationalsyste00king).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese system of public education (IA chinesesystemop00kuop).pdf]]
* [[Index:Chinese education from the western viewpoint (IA chineseeducation00yens).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sihialanguage27lauf/ The Si-hia Language]
* [https://archive.org/details/chinahistoryofla01grayuoft/ China: a History of the Laws, Manners and Customs of the People, Volume 1]
* [[Index:China - a history of the laws, manners and customs of the people (IA chinahistoryofla02grayuoft).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:On &amp; off duty in Annam (IA onoffdutyinannam00vassiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/storieslegendsof00chiv/ Stories and Legends of Annam]
* [[Index:Vietnamese Song Book (U.S. Army Language School, 1961).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indo-China and its primitive people (IA indochinaitsprim00baud).pdf]]
* [[Index:The persecutions of Annam; a history of Christianity in Cochin China and Tonking (IA persecutionsofan00shoriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The French in Tonkin and South China (IA frenchintonkinso00cunn).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tonkin, or, France in the Far East (IA cu31924023040581).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tungking (IA cu31924088799386).pdf]]
* [[Index:France and Tongking; a narrative of the campaign of 1884 and the occupation of Further India (IA francetongkingna01scot 0).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warintongkingwh00staugoog/ The War in Tong-king]
* [[Index:The political ideas of modern Japan (IA politicalideasof00kawarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Studies in Vietnamese (Annamese) grammar (Emeneau).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Corean government- constitutional changes, July 1894 to October 1895. With an appendix on subsequent enactments to 30th June 1896 (IA cu31924023425063).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of that great and renowned monarchy of China. Wherein all the particular provinces are accurately described- as also the dispositions, manners, learning, lawes, militia (IA historyofthatgre00seme).pdf]]
* [[Index:Code of Gentoo Laws (1776, codeofgentoolaws00halh, Halhed).djvu]]
* [[Index:Ancient China, The Shoo King or the Historical Classic (Ancientchinashoo00confuoft, Medhurst, 1846).djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese Moral Maxims - Davis - 1823.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland 1864-65.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese Repository - Volume 01.djvu]]
* [[Index:An Ainu-English-Japanese dictionary (including a grammar of the Ainu language).djvu]]
* [[Index:How Many Independent Rice Vocabularies in Asia?.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Grammar of the Chinese Language (grammarofchinese00morr 1, Morrison, 1815).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ta Tsing Leu Lee; Being, The Fundamental Laws, and a Selections from the Supplementary Statutes, of the Penal Code of China.djvu]]
* [[Index:Dictionary of the Swatow dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese miscellany; consisting of original extracts from Chinese authors, in the native character; with translations and philological remarks (IA b22009450).pdf]]
* [[Index:Translations from the Original Chinese, with Notes (translationsfrom00morruoft, 1815).djvu]]

====Manuscripts====
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Nero A x (art. 3).pdf]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Nero D IV.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Julius A II.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Julius A VII.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Vitellius A XV.djvu]]

==== North Carolina ====
* [https://archive.org/details/communityservice00nort_0/ Community Service Week in North Carolina]
* [[Index:Citizens' reference book - a text and reference book for pupils and teachers in community schools for adult beginners (IA citizensreferenc1922morr).pdf]]
* [[Index:Annual report of North Carolina Council of Defense (serial) (IA annualreportofno11918nort).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rules and regulations of Mecklenburg County Home Guard (IA rulesregulations00north).pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Council of Defense - plan of organization (IA northcarolinacounort).pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Council of defense historical committee (IA northcarolinacou00no).pdf]]
* [[Index:North Carolina, a study in English colonial government (IA northcarolinas00rape).pdf]]
* [[Index:Reconstruction in North Carolina (IA cu31924028788664).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Reconstruction in North Carolina .. (IA reconstructionin00hami).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Official history of the 120th Infantry &quot;3rd North Carolina&quot; 30th Division, from August 5, 1917, to April 17, 1919 - canal sector, Ypres-Lys offensive, Somme offensive (IA officialhistoryowalk).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/accountofprovinc00wils/ An Account of the Province of Carolina in America]
* [https://archive.org/details/fundamentalconst00caro/ The Fundamental Constitutions of Carolina]
* [[Index:University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (IA govwilliamtryon00hayw).pdf]], Governor William Tryon, and his administration in the province of North Carolina
* [[Index:The Moravians in North Carolina - an authentic history (IA moraviansinnorth00reic).pdf]]
* [[Indes:History of Wachovia in North Carolina; the Unitas fratrum or Moravian church in North Carolina during a century and a half, 1752-1902 (IA historyofwachovi00clew).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the University of North Carolina (IA historyofunivers00batt).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the University of North Carolina (IA historyofunivers02batt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Laws of the University of North-Carolina (1800, lawsofuniversityuniv1799).djvu]]
* [[Index:Report of the Tax Commission to Governor Angus Wilton McLean, 1927.pdf]]
* [[Index:Regulations for the North Carolina National Guard, 1907.pdf]]
* [[Index:Reminiscences of Randolph County - Blair - 1890.djvu]]
* [[Index:West Chowan Baptist Messenger, Volume 1 - Issue 4.pdf]]
* [[Index:Revised Statutes of the State of North Carolina - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Session Laws of North Carolina, April, 1777.pdf]]
* [[Index:A bibliography of North Carolina, 1589-1956 - 1958.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Asheboro Courier, Volume IX, No. 26.pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Historical Review - Volume 1, Number 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:1751 A collection of all the public acts of Assembly, of the province of North-Carolina now in force and use.pdf]]
* [[Index:North Carolina Manual (1874).pdf]]
* [[Index:NC-Register-Volume-01-Issue-01.pdf]]

== Series/Periodicals/Journals ==
* [[Science (journal)]]
* [[The China Review]]
* [[Amazing Stories]]
* [[The Chinese Repository]]
* [[Federal Register]]
* [[Weird Tales]]
* [[The Journal of Religion]]
* [[Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society]]
* [[Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology]]
* [[Journal of Germanic Philology]]
* [[Journal of English and Germanic Philology]]
* [[Southern Historical Society Papers]]
* [[Archaeologia]]
* [[Portal:The Review of English Studies|The Review of English Studies]]
* [[Archaeological Journal]]
* [[National Geographic Magazine]]
* [[Classical World]]
* [[The International Socialist Review (1900-1918)]]
* [[Loeb Classical Library]]
* [[West Chowan Baptist Messenger]], in case more issues show up.
* [[The Courier]]
* [[North Carolina Historical Review]]

== Copyright books, bibliographies, etc. ==
* [[Catalog of Copyright Entries]]
* [[Index:A bibliography of North Carolina, 1589-1956 - 1958.djvu]]

== Authors I'm working on / might work on ==
* [[author:John Ronald Reuel Tolkien|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien]]
* [[author:Alexander Ross|Alexander Ross]]
* [[Author:George Lyman Kittredge|George Lyman Kittredge]]
* [[Author:Frank Johnson Goodnow|Frank Johnson Goodnow]]
* [[Author:Frank Frost Abbott|Frank Frost Abbott]]
* [[Author:John Bagnell Bury|John Bagnell Bury]]
* [[Author:Edwin Charles Clark|Edwin Charles Clark]]
* [[Author:James Muirhead (1831-1889)|James Muirhead]]
* [[Author:Edward Poste|Edward Poste]]
* [[Author:James Young Simpson|James Young Simpson]]
* [[Author:Francis Ellingwood Abbot|Francis Ellingwood Abbot]]

== WikiProjects ==

* [[Wikisource:WikiProject North Carolina|WikiProject North Carolina]]
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject Socialism|WikiProject Socialism]]
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject Chinese|WikiProject Chinese]]

== Other ==

* Created the [[Template:PD-Nauru]] for Nauruan works

== Other Accounts ==

* https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Reboot01

== Scripts and Tools and things ==

*[[/Sandbox/]]
*[[/common.js/]]
*[[/common.css/]]
*[[/CustomToolbarAdditions.js/]]

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        <id>2805164</id>
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Primary interests; Linguistics, Ancient Rome + Byzantine Studies, Latin, Africa, The Gambia, Law, North Carolina, the East Asian Cultural Sphere, South East Asia, Theology/Mythology/Religious Studies, Alchemy, Magic, Occult, etc., Calligraphy, Paleography, Political Science, Economics, Socialism/Anarchism/Marxism and etc. (List is not in any particular order)

Feel free to contact me on my user talk page, or at the WikiSource Discord, reboot01!

== Currently working on/Want to have time to work on ==
=== Projects ===
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject North Carolina/North Carolina Bibliography (1589-1956)|Sub-Project North Carolina Bibliography (1589-1956)]]

=== Indexes ===
* [[Index:Mother (IA mother00gorkrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Criterion - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Criterion - Volume 4.djvu]]
* [[Index:Lltreaties-ustbv001.pdf]]
* [[Index:The anatomy of melancholy - vvhat it is, vvith all the kindes, causes, symptomes, prognostickes, and severall cures of it - in three maine partitions with their seuerall sections (IA anatomyofmelanch00burt 2).pdf]]

====Reference Works, Dictionaries, Ecyclopedias, Language etc,====
* [[Index:Helps for student-writers (IA helpsforstudentw00hawk).pdf]]
* [[Index:Short stories in the making; a writers' and students' introduction to the technique and practical composition of short stories (IA shortstoriesinma00nea).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lectures on the elements of hieroglyphics and Egyptian antiquities (IA lecturesonelemen00spin).pdf]]
* [[Index:Account of Some Recent Discoveries in Hieroglyphical Literature and Egyptian Antiquities (IA dli.granth.37546).pdf]]
* [[Index:A grammar of the Samaritan language, with extracts and vocabulary (IA grammarofsamarit00nich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The dialect of the southern counties of Scotland - Murray - 1873.djvu]]
* [[Index:The place names of Elginshire (IA placenamesofelgi00mathrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of English balladry, and other studies (IA historyofenglish00brya).pdf]], 1919 reprint
* [[Index:A history of English balladry, and other studies (IA cu31924017774658).pdf]], 1913 print
* [[Index:A grammar of the Mandingo language- with vocabularies (IA grammarofmanding00macb).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern English - its growth and present use (IA modernenglishits00krap).pdf]]
* [[Index:The rise, progress, and present structure of the English language. (IA harrisonriseprog00harr).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishlanguagei0000geor/ The English Language in America, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishlanguagei0002geor/ The English Language in America, Volume 2]
* [[Index:The American language; an inquiry into the development of English in the United States (IA americanlanguage00menc 0).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [[Index:The American Language.djvu]]
* [[Index:American English (IA americanenglish00tuck).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishdialectg00wrig/ The English Dialect Grammar]
* [[Index:Phonology and grammar of modern west Frisian, with phonetic texts and glossary (IA phonologygrammar00sipm).pdf]]
* [[Index:A grammar of the Old Friesic language (IA grammarofoldfrie00cummrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:A grammar of the Old Friesic language (IA grammarofoldfrie00cummiala).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:The Frisian language and literature- a historical study (IA frisianlanguagel00hewerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A key into the language of America- or, An help to the language of the natives in that part of America, called New-England. - Together, with briefe observations of the customes (IA keyintolanguageo00will 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:File:A grammar of the Malagasy language, in the Ankova dialect (IA grammarofmalagas00grifrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the Maya hieroglyphs (IA introductiontost00morl 0).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/grammarofoscanum00buckuoft/ A Grammar of Oscan and Umbrian]
* [[Index:Pronunciation of Latin in the Augustan period (IA pronunciationofl00cambrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/childrensliterat0000curr/ Children's Literature]
* [[Index:Rudiments of Grammar for the English-Saxon Tongue (Elstob 1715).djvu]]
* [[Index:An Icelandic-English Dictionary - Cleasby &amp; Vigfusson - 1874.djvu]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume I, A-B.pdf]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume II, C-L.pdf]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume III, M-Z.pdf]]
* [[Index:Jewish Encyclopedia Volume 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:Catholic Encyclopedia, volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Pantographia - Fry - 1799.djvu]]
* [[Index:A practical grammar of the Hebrew language - Felsenthal - 1868.djvu]]
* [[Index:The grammar of English grammars.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Brasilian language and its agglutination.pdf]]
* [[Index:AnEssayTowardsARealCharacterAndAPhilosophicalLanguage.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Universal Alphabet, Grammar, and Language (universalalphabe00edmo, George Edmunds, 1856) (IA universalalphabe00edmo).pdf]]

====Theology, Spirituality, Occult, Mythology, old science and medicine etc.====
* [https://archive.org/details/orientalliteratu00muhiuoft/ The Dabistan]
* [https://archive.org/details/witchesstilllive00keny/ Witches Still Live]
* [[Index:Aradia or The Gospel of the witches.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29978518/ The mysteries and secrets of magic]
* [https://archive.org/details/demonologywitchc00brow/ Demonology and Witchcraft]
* [[Index:Witch, warlock, and magician; historical sketches of magic and witchcraft in England and Scotland (IA witchwarlockmagi00adamrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of witches; (IA bookofwitches00huef).pdf]]
* [[Index:La sorcière; the witch of the middle ages (IA lasorcierewitcho00michiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/dragonsdragonlor0000erne/ Dragons and Dragon Lore]
* [[Index:The evolution of the dragon (IA evolutionofdrago00smituoft).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/celticdragonmyth0000jrge/ The Celtic Dragon Myth]
* [https://archive.org/details/unicornamytholo00browgoog/ The Unicorn: A Mythological Investigation]
* [[Index:The religions of eastern Asia (IA religionsofeaste00underich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An account of the rise and progress of Mahometanism.djvu]]
* [[Index:Mahommed, &quot;the great Arabian,&quot; (IA mahommedthegreat00townrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The life of Mohammed; founder of the religion of Islam, and of the empire of the Saracens (IA lifeofmohammedfo00bushrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mohammedanism (IA mohammedanism00margiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mohammedanism, a pseudo christianity (IA mohammedanismpse00clyd).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christiaan Snouck Hurgronje - Mohammedanism (1916).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifereligionofma0000mene/ The life and religion of Mahommed]
* [[Index:The Columbian Congress of the Universalist Church - papers and addresses at the Congress, held as a section of the World's Congress Auxiliary of the Columbian Exposition, 1893 (IA columbiancongres00colu).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our word and work for missions; (IA ourwordworkformi00rugg).pdf]]
* [[Index:A handbook of Christian apologetics (IA handbookofchrist00garviala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Unitarianism in America; a history of its origin and development (IA cu31924029477852).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ordination of women to the pastorate in Baptist churches (IA ordinationofwome00hung).pdf]]
* [[Index:Women in the Apostolic church; a critical study of the evidence in the New Testament for the prominence of women in early Christianity (IA womeninapostolic00allwrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/theplaceofwomeni00unknuoft/ The Place of Women in the Church]
* [https://archive.org/details/womaninpulpit00will/ Women in the Pulpit]
* [https://archive.org/details/minhaj_al-talibin_english/ Minhaj Al-Talibin]
* [[Index:Development of Muslim theology, jurisprudence, and constitutional theory (IA cu31924029159691).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/traditionsofisla0000alfr/ The Traditions of Islam]
* [https://archive.org/details/muhammadinhadees0000abul/ Muhammad in the Hadees]
* [https://archive.org/details/amanualofthelead00tisduoft/ A manual of the leading Muhammadan objections to Christianity]
* [https://archive.org/details/theoriginalsourc00tisduoft/ The original sources of the Qur'ân]
* [[Index:The sword of Islam (IA swordofislam00woll).pdf]]
* [[Index:The spirit of Islam; or, The life and teachings of Mohammed (IA spiritofislamorl00alisrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Moslem seeker after God - showing Islam at its best in the life and teaching of al-Ghazali, mystic and theologian of the eleventh century (IA moslemseekeraft00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Moslem doctrine of God; an essay on the character and attributes of Allah according to the Koran and orthodox tradition (IA moslemdoctrineof00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Samaritan Pentateuch- the story of a survival among the sects (IA samaritanpentate00bart).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/samaritanstheirh00gast/ The Samaritans : their history, doctrines and literature]
* [[Index:The Samaritans, the earliest Jewish sect; their history, theology and literature (IA cu31924028585929).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/samaritanstheirt00thomuoft/ The Samaritans: their testimony to the religion of Israel]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29351765/ An Account of the Rise and Progress of Mahometanism]
* [[Index:The book of Yahweh (The Yahwist Bible) - fragments from the primitive document in seven early books of the Old Testament (IA cu31924029285661).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lecturesonmodern00bart/ Lectures on Modern Universalism]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofopinion00beec/ History of opinions on the scriptural doctrine of retribution]
* [https://archive.org/details/mysteryhidfromag00chau_0/ The Mystery Hid from Ages and Generations]
* [[Index:Sermons in vindication of Universalism...in reply to &quot;Lectures on Universalism&quot;; (IA sermonsinvindica00mors).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our new departure; (IA ournewdeparture00broo).pdf]]
* [[Index:Universalism as it is; or, Text book of modern universalism in America (IA universalismasit00hatfrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The plain guide to Universalism - designed to lead inquirers to the belief of that doctrine, and believers to the practice of it (IA plainguidetouniv00whitrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Handbook of Christian symbolism (IA handbookofchrist00auds).pdf]]
* [[Index:Bible manual. Introductory course on the Bible, for teachers training classes and Bible classes (IA biblemanualintro00kram).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofopinion00beec/ History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Future Retribution]
* [[Index:Over the river- (IA overriver00thayiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/originhistoryofd00thay_0/ The origin and history of the doctrine of endless punishment]
* [https://archive.org/details/theologyofuniver00thay/ Theology of Universalism]
* [[index:An examination of the doctrine of future retribution (IA examinationofdoc00ball).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christianity against infidelity.. (IA christianityagai00thay).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Bible class assistant, or Scriptural guide for Sunday schools.. (IA bibleclassassist00thay).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/elevensermonswhi00ball/ The eleven sermons which were preached]
* [[Index:The Christian universalist (IA christianunivers00mitc).pdf]]
* [[Index:Bible proofs of universal salvation.. (IA bibleproofsofuni00hans).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ancient history of universalism, from the time of the apostles to its condemnation in the fifth general council, A. D. 553 (IA ancienthistoryof00ball 1).pdf]], 2nd Edition, 1842
* [[Index:Universalism, the prevailing doctrine of the Christian church during its first five hundred years; with authorities and extracts (IA universalismpre00hans).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient history of universalism - from the time of the apostles, to the fifth general council - with an appendix, tracing the doctrine to the Reformation (IA ancienthistoryof00ball 0).pdf]], Boston Reprint, 1872
* [[Index:The divine government (IA divinegovernment00smit).pdf]], 5th Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/restorationofall00whit/ The restoration of all things]
* [https://archive.org/details/helptotheunlearn00trimuoft/ A help to the unlearned in the study of the Holy Scriptures]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 4.djvu]]
* [[Index:A critical exposition of the popular Jihád.pdf]]
* [[Index:Te Ika a Maui, or, New Zealand and its inhabitants - with the geology, natural history, productions, and climate of the country, etc. (IA teikamauiornewze1855rich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Polynesian Mythology by George Grey (polynesianmythol00greyuoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:Myths And Songs From The South Pacific (IA mythsandsongsfro013889mbp).pdf]]
* [[Index:Legends of Ma-ui-a demi god of Polynesia (IA legendsofmauiade00west).pdf]]
* [[Index:Creation myths of primitive America - in relation to the religious history and mental development of mankind (IA creationmyths00curtrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hawaiian legends of volcanoes (mythology) (IA hawaiianlegendso01west).pdf]]
* [[Index:Legends of gods and ghosts (Hawaiian mythology).djvu]]
* [[Index:The legends and myths of Hawaii - the fables and folk-lore of a strange people (IA legendsmythsofha00kala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Pele and Hiiaka; a myth from Hawaii (IA pelehiiakamythfr00emeriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hawaiian antiquities (Moolelo Hawaii) (IA hawaiianantiquit00malorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Unwritten literature of Hawaii; the sacred songs of the hula (IA cu31924026916415).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient Jewish proverbs (IA ancientjewishpro00cohe).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Babylonian Talmud- Tractate Berakot; translated into English for the first time, with introduction, commentary, glossary and indices (IA babyloniantalmud00coheiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sacred cosmogony; or, Primitive revelation demonstrated by the harmony of the facts of the Mosaic history of the creation, with the principles of general science (IA sacredcosmogonyo00sori).pdf]]
* [[Index:A short survey of the literature of rabbinical and mediæval Judaism (IA cu31924029285371).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Preaching of Islam, by T. W. Arnold; 1935.djvu]]
* [[Index:The religion of Islám (IA religionofislm00kleirich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/originsofdruzepe00hitt/ The origins of the Druze people and religion]
* [https://archive.org/details/essaysonsubjects01wrig/ Essays on subjects connected with the literature, popular superstitions, and history of England in the Middle Ages, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/essaysonsubjects02wrig/ Essays on subjects connected with the literature, popular superstitions, and history of England in the Middle Ages, Volume 2]
* [[Index:A contribution to the comparative study of the medieval visions of heaven and hell (IA contributiontoco01beck).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demon possession and allied themes; being an inductive study of phenomena of our own times (IA demonpossessiona00neviiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Devil Worship.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/heavenhellincomp0000kohl/ Heaven and hell in comparative religion]
* [https://archive.org/details/diabolologyperso1890jewe/ Diabolology]
* [[Index:The Book of the Goetia (Mathers-Crowley, 1904).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Key of Solomon the king (Clavicula Salomonis) (IA b24884431).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lesserkeyofsolom00dela/ The Lesser Key of Solomon]
* [[Index:Irish witchcraft and demonology (IA irishwitchcraftd00seymrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demonology and devil-lore (IA demonologydevill00conw).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demonology and devil-lore (IA demonologydevill00conw2).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/storyofworldswor00dobbuoft/ Story of the World's Worship]
* [https://archive.org/details/moonlore00harl/ Moon Lore]
* [[Index:Witch-Cult in Western Europe (1921).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/womansshareinpri00maso/ Woman's Share in Primitive Culture]
* [[Index:Germanic origins (IA germanicorigins00gumm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Woman, church and state- a historical account of the status of woman through the Christian ages- with reminiscences of matriarchate - (IA womanchurchstate00gagerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Golden Bough (1922).djvu]]
* [[Index:Myths and myth-makers- old tales and superstitions interpreted by comparative mythology (IA mythsandmythmake00fiskiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Researches in prehistoric and protohistoric comparative philology, mythology, and archæology, in connection with the origin of culture in America and the Accad or Sumerian families (IA researchesinpreh00clar).pdf]]
* [[Index:The material culture and social institutions of the simpler peoples; an essay in correlation (IA materialcultures00hobhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the science of comparative mythology and folklore (IA cu31924029075328).pdf]]
* [[Index:Fecundity, fertility, sterility, and allied topics (IA cu31924030410801).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Fecundity, fertility, sterility and allied topics (IA b21778176).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:The Catholic's ready answer; a popular vindication of Christian beliefs and practices against the attacks of modern criticism (IA catholicsreadyan00hill).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/commentaryonbibl00peak/ A commentary on the Bible]
* [[Index:The Bible and astronomy; (IA bibleastronomy00kurt).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sunloreofallages00olco/ Sun Lore of All Ages]
* [[Index:An account of the life and writings of S. Irenæus (IA accountoflifewri00beav).pdf]]
* [[Index:Heresy and Chistian doctrine (IA heresychistiando00pres).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/observationsonhe0000whit/ Observations on heresy and orthodoxy]
* [https://archive.org/details/historicalviewof00mcfa/ An historical view of heresies and vindication of the primitive fait]
* [[Index:The gnostic heresies of the first and second centuries (IA gnosticheresieso00mansrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Aryan sun-myths the origin of religions; (IA aryansunmythsori00titcrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mosaicall philosophy - grounded upon the essentiall truth or eternal sapience (IA mosaicallphiloso00flud).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of four-footed beasts and serpents. (IA historyoffourfoo00tops).pdf]]
* [[Index:The historie of foure-footed beastes (1607).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/immortalityunsee0000unse/ Immortality and the Unseen World]
* [[Index:Angelology.. (IA angelology00clay).pdf]]
* [[Index:Angelology-.. (IA angelology00mcca).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA b30330610).pdf]], Blagraves astrological practice of physick
* [[Index:Anatomical texts of the earlier middle ages; a study in the transmission of culture (1927).djvu]]
* [[Index:Books from the Biodiversity Heritage Library (IA mobot31753000703782).pdf]], Paradisi in sole paradisus terrestris
* [[Index:The philosophy of witchcraft (IA philosophyofwitc00mitciala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA b30529906).pdf]], The compleat wizzard
* [[Index:A commentary on the Holy Bible (1909) (IA commentaryonholy01dumm).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Christian Book of concord, or, Symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church; comprising the three chief symbols, the unaltered Augsburg confession, the Apology (IA christianbookofc00luth).pdf]], 1st edition, 1851
* [[Index:The Christian Book of concord = or, Symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church - comprising the three chief symbols, the unaltered Augsburg confession, the Apology (IA christianbookofc00henk).pdf]], 2nd edition 1854
* [[Index:Books from the Library of Congress (IA theologicalpropd03scha).pdf]], Theological propædeutic; a general introduction to the study of theology
* [[Index:A Complete System of Christian Theology (Wakefield, 1869, completesystemof0000wake).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Queen of Sheba &amp; her only son Menyelek (IA queenofshebahero00budgrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Some answered questions; collected and tr. from the Persian of 'Abdu'l-Baha, by Laura Clifford Barney (IA someansweredques00abdurich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hujajul Beheyyeh (The Behai proofs) (IA hujajulbeheyyeht00abua).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sevenvalleysreve00bah/ The Seven Valleys]
* [[Index:Tablet of tarazat, Tablet of the world, Words of Paradise, Tablet of Tajalleyat, The glad tidings; (IA tabletoftarazatt00baharich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/promulgationofun01abdu/ The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/promulgationofun0002abdu/ The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Volume 2]
* [[Index:The Moslem doctrine of God; an essay on the character and attributes of Allah according to the Koran and orthodox tradition (IA moslemdoctrineof00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:Development of Muslim theology, jurisprudence, and constitutional theory (IA cu31924029159691).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Samaritans, the earliest Jewish sect; their history, theology and literature (IA cu31924028585929).pdf]]
* [[Index:The theology and ethics of the Hebrews (IA theologyethicsof00duffiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/thesixdaysofcrea00lewsuoft/ The Six Days of Creation]
* [[Index:The chemical history of the six days of creation (IA cu31924029284399).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/patriarchalageor00smituoft/ The patriarchal age; or, The history and religion of mankind]
* [[Index:The patriarchal age; (IA patriarchalage00phil).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/immortalityunsee0000unse/ Immortality and the unseen world; a study in Old Testament religion]
* [[Index:The unity of the book of Genesis (IA unityofbookofge00gree).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Book of Jubilees, translated from the Ethiopic (IA cu31924076045669).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Jubilees. Robert Henry Charles. 1902 (IA bookofjubileesor00char).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Book of Jubilees. Robert Charles, George Box. 1917 (IA bookofjubileesor01char).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Exodus, with introduction and notes (IA bookofexoduswith00mcnerich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bookofgenesisnot00drivuoft/ The Book of Genesis; with introduction and notes by S.R. Driver]
* [[Index:The legends of Genesis (IA legendsofgenesis00gunk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Genesis in the light of modern knowledge (IA bookofgenesisinl01worc).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/worldbeforeabrah00mitcuoft/ The World before Abraham, according to Genesis I-XI]
* [[Index:The creation - a commentary on the first five chapters of the book of Genesis (IA creationcommenta00luth).pdf]]
* [[Index:The genesis of Genesis; (IA genesisofgenesis00bacorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early traditions of Genesis (IA earlytraditionso00gordrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/teachingvaluesof00stri/ Teaching values of the legends and myths of Genesis]]
* [[Index:The composition of the book of Genesis (IA compositionofbo00frip).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes on the book of Genesis (IA notesonbookofgen00mackrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Discourses on the book of Genesis (IA discoursesonbook00henriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indications of the first book of Moses, called Genesis (IA indicationsoffir00latc).pdf]]
* [[Index:Outline studies in Genesis (IA outlinestudiesin00russ).pdf]]
* [[Index:Studies on the book of Genesis (IA studiesonbookof00prat).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early narratives of Genesis; a brief introduction to the study of Genesis I-XI (IA earlynarrativeso00rylerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes, critical and explanatory, on the book of Genesis ... (IA notescriticalexp00unse).pdf]]
* [[Index:Creation and the fall; a defence and exposition of the first three chapters of Genesis (IA creationfalldefe00macd).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/expositionofthre00glea/ An exposition of the three first chapters of Genesis, explained and improved]
* [[Index:The historical value of the first eleven chapters of Genesis; with some discussion of the new criticism (IA historicalvalueo00beac).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mosaic cosmogony. Literal translation of first chapter of Genesis, with annotations and rationalia (IA cu31924031786928).pdf]]
* [[Index:The first chapter of Genesis as the rock foundation for science and religion (IA cu31924031224789).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/notesobservation00scot/ Notes and observations upon the three first chapters of Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/acriticalandexe01murpgoog/ A critical and exegetical commentary on the book of Genesis, 1st Edition, Edinburgh, 1863]
* [[Index:Genesis I-II- (IA genesisiii00grot).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1880
* [[Index:Genesis I-II- an essay on the Bible narrative of creation (IA genesisiiiessayo01grot).pdf]], 2nd Edition, 1881
* [[Index:The tabernacle - or the Gospel according to Moses (IA tabernacleorgosp00junk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Tabernacle; its history and structure (IA tabernacleitshis00cald).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/primevalrevelati00jone/ Primeval Revelation: Studies in Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/messagesformorni00trum/ Messages for the Morning Watch: Devotional Studies in Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/beginningsofhebr00cole/ The Beginnings of the Hebrew People: Studies in the Book of Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/genesisorfirstbo0000lang/ Genesis, or, the first book of Moses, together with a general theological and homiletical introduction to the Old Testament]
* [[Index:The myths of Israel, the ancient book of Genesis with analysis and explanation of its composition (IA mythsofisraelanc00fisk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ages before Moses- a series of lectures on the book of Genesis (IA cu31924029289737).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Jewish Interpretation of the Book of Genesis (Morgenstern, 1919, jewishinterpreta00morg).pdf]]
* [[Index:A commentary upon the first book of Moses called Genesis (IA cuponfi00patr).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [[Index:A commentary upon the first book of Moses, called Genesis (IA comfi00patr).pdf]], 2nd edition, missing pages
* [[Index:A companion to the book of Genesis (IA companiontobook00turn).pdf]]
* [[Index:The law of Moses (IA lawofmoses00navi).pdf]]
* The covenant of nature made with Adam described {{esl|https://archive.org/details/covenantofnature00pync/}}
* [[Index:The history and philosophy of Judaism (IA historyphilosoph00shawiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Intermediate types among primitive folk- a study in social evolution (IA cu31924021843986).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christianity and sex problems (IA cu31924021843259).pdf]]
* [[Index:Source book for social origins; ethnological materials, psychological standpoint, classified and annotated bibliographies for the interpretation of savage society (IA sourcebookforsoc00thomiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sex and society; studies in the social psychology of sex (IA sexsocietystudie00thom).pdf]]
* [[Index:Man and woman (electronic resource) - a study of human secondary sexual characters (IA b20410761).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to systematic philosophy (IA introductiontosy00marv).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to philosophy (IA introductiontoph00flet).pdf]]
* [[Index:Book of Mormon (1830, bookofmormonacco1830smit).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Holy scriptures (IA holyscriptures00smit).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indago astrologica- or a brief and modest enquiry into some principal points of astrology (IA b30333519).pdf]]
* [[Index:An encyclopaedia of occultism a compendium of information on the occult sciences, occult personalities, psychic science, magic, demonology, spiritism and mysticism.djvu]]
* [[Index:The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu]]
* [[Index:Summa Theologica (2nd rev. ed.) - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The abridgment of Christian divinitie.djvu]]
* [[Index:Alcoran of Mahomet 1649.djvu]]
* [[Index:A dictionary of Islam.djvu]]
* [[Index:Thomas Patrick Hughes - Notes on Muhammadanism - 2ed. (1877).djvu]]
* [[Index:The discouerie of witchcraft (1584) (IA b30337367).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Mirror of Alchimy (1597, mirrorofalchimy00baco).djvu]]
* [[Index:The history of Witchcraft and demonology.djvu]]
* [[Index:Three Books of Occult Philosophy (De Occulta Philosophia) (1651).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Magus, or Celestial Intelligencer - Barrett - 1801.djvu]]
* [[Index:St Augustine Of the Citie of God.pdf]]
* [[Index:1582 Rhemes New Testament.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Holy Bible (LSV).pdf]]
* [[Index:Batman upon Bartolome.djvu]]
* [[Index:An analysis of the Egyptian mythology- to which is subjoined, a critical examination of the remains of Egyptian chronology (IA b29350074).pdf]]
* [[Index:Phenomenology of Mind vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Phenomenology of Mind vol 2.djvu]]

====Economic/Social studies/History/Law====
* [[Index:Problems of readjustment after the war (IA problemsofreadju00newy).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of government organization and management (IA principlesofgove00clev).pdf]]
* [[Index:The new spirit of the new army; a message to the &quot;service flag&quot; homes (IA newspiritofnewar00odel).pdf]]
* [[Index:The church in America; a study of the present condition and future prospects of American Protestantism (IA churchinamericas01brow).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/middletownstudyi0000lynd/ Middletown: a study in American culture]
* [[Index:Organized self-government (IA organizedselfgov00daws).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/jewishselfgovern00fink/ Jewish self-government in the middle ages]
* [https://archive.org/details/citiesinevolutio00gedduoft/ Cities in Evolution]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanpublicli0000unse/ The American Public Library and the Diffusion of Knowledge]
* [[Index:Co-operative housekeeping; how not to do it and how to do it (IA cooperativehouse00peir).pdf]]
* [[Index:Akbar and the rise of the Mughal empire; (IA akbarriseofmugha00mallrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Akbar, emperor of India, a picture of life and customs from the sixteenth century (IA akbaremperorofin00garb).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ayeen Akbery; or, The Institutes of the Emperor Akber (IA ayeenakberyorins02abua).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ayeen Akbery; or, The Institutes of the Emperor Akber (IA ayeenakberyorins01abua).pdf]]
* [[Index:Local government in Francia and England- a comparison of the local administration and jurisdiction of the Carolingian empire with that of the West Saxon kingdom (IA localgovernmenti00camhiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The making of the English constitution, 449-1485 (IA makingofenglishc00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The story of the shire, being the lore, history and evolution of English county institutions (IA storyofshirebein00hack).pdf]]
* [[Index:The polity of the ancient Hebrews (IA polityofancienth00sulzrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Am ha-aretz - the ancient Hebrew parliament, a chapter in the constitutional history of ancient Israel (IA cu31924089135754).pdf]], 2nd Printing, 1910
* [[Index:The Am ha-aretz, the ancient Hebrew parliament, a chapter in the constitutional history of ancient Israel (IA amhaaretzancient00sulziala).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/revolutionbyreas0000stra/ Revolution by Reason, an account of the financial proposals submitted by Oswald Mosley at the 33d Independent Labour Party Conference]
* [[Index:The story of rapid transit (IA storyofrapidtran00willrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Interborough rapid transit; the New York subway, its construction and equipment (IA interboroughrapi00interich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ethnologyofakamb00hobluoft/ Ethnology of A-Kamba and other East African Tribes]
* [https://archive.org/details/africapastpresen00mois/ Africa: Past and Present]
* [https://archive.org/details/soulofbantusympa00will_0/ The Soul of the Bantu]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofislando00copl/ A History of the Island of Madagascar]
* [https://archive.org/details/madagascarhistor01oliv/ Madagascar, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/madagascarhistor02oliv/ Madagascar, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/b31516993/ The Antananarivo annual and Madagascar magazine]
* [[Index:The history of Dahomy, an inland kingdom of Africa (IA b28764808).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Visigothic Code.djvu]]
* [[Index:A manual of elementary law (IA cu31924018811376).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/countrytownstudy00andeuoft/ The Country Town]
* [[Index:Principles of American state administration, by John Mabry Mathews. (IA principlesofamer00math).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lectures on Slavonic law, being the Ilchester lectures for the year 1900; (IA cu31924022021566).pdf]]
* [[index:Ideals of America; (IA idealsofamerica00city).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/howesneweracivic00howe/ Howe's new era civics]
* [https://archive.org/details/safeguardingamer00atwoiala Safeguarding american ideals]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanpolitica00merriala/ American political ideas; studies in the development of American political thought 1865-1917]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanthoughtf00rilerich/ American thought: from Puritanism to pragmatism]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924007488954/ The foundations of American foreign policy]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924031446465/ Liberty, Union and Democracy, The National Ideas of America]
* [https://archive.org/details/nationalgovernme00kimbrich/ The national government of the United States]
* [https://archive.org/details/sociallawsagenci00unse/ Social laws and agencies of North Carolina]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanidealsot0000unse/ American ideals, and other essays, social and political]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanismwhati00hillrich/ Americanism, what it is]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanizationp00talb/ Americanization]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanismwhati00hill/ Americanism, what it is]
* [https://archive.org/details/ourdualgovernmen00broo/ Our dual government, studies in Americanism for young people]
* [https://archive.org/details/everydayamerican00canbrich/ Everyday Americans]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofamerican00hopk/ A manual of American ideas]
* [https://archive.org/details/americandemocrac01form/ The American democracy, 1920]
* [https://archive.org/details/americandemocrac00form/ The American Democracy, 1921, 2nd Printing]
* [https://archive.org/details/citizensguideorm00gibs/ The citizens' guide]
* [[Index:Community buildings for industrial towns (IA communitybuildin00comm).pdf]]
* [[index:Rural and small community recreation. Suggestions for utilizing the resources of rural communities; (IA ruralsmallcommun00commrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A course in citizenship and patriotism (IA courseincitizens00cabo).pdf]]
* [[Index:A selected bibliography and syllabus of the history of the South, 1584-1876 (IA selectedbibliogr00boydrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The demonstration work; Dr. Seaman A. Knapp's contribution to civilization (IA demonstrationwor00martrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Party organization and machinery (IA partyorgmachiner00macy).pdf]]
* [[Index:A decade of Negro extension work, 1914-1924 (IA decadeofnegroext72mart).pdf]]
* [[Index:Educational resources of village and rural communities (IA educationalresou00hart).pdf]]
* [[Index:The validity of American ideals (IA validityofameric01math).pdf]]
* [[Index:The church and the community (IA cu31924014043362).pdf]]
* [[Index:Social ideals of a free church (IA socialidealsoffr00forbiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christian Americanization; a task for the churches (IA brookschristiana00broo).pdf]]
* [[Index:America via the neighborhood (IA americavianeighb00danirich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our neighborhood; good citizenship in rural communities (IA cu31924080075959).pdf]]
* [[Index:The free city; a book of neighborhood (IA freecitybookofne00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Neighborhood entertainments (IA cu31924014493542).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rural community organization (IA ruralcommunityor00haye).pdf]]
* [[Index:A community center; what it is and how to organize it (IA communitycenterw00jack).pdf]]
* [[Index:A community church; the story of a minister's experience which led him from the church militant to the church democratic (IA communitychurchs00jackrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Community organization (IA communityorganiz00hartiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/socialservicefor00ward_0/ Social Services for Young People]
* [[Index:Pupil self-government, its theory and practice (IA pupilselfgovernm00cron).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/communityorganiz00stei/ Community Organization: A Study of its Current Theory and Practice]
* [[Index:The little democracy, a text-book on community organization (IA littledemocracyt00clar).pdf]]
* [[Index:The country church and community cooperation (IA countrychurchcom00israrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Local and central government; a comparative study of England, France, Prussia, and the United States (IA localcentralgove00ashl).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal administration in Germany as seen in the government of a typical Prussian city, Halle a-S (IA municipaladminis00jamerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of Prussian administration (IA principlesofprus00jamerich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/governmentadmini0000blac/ The Government and Administration of Germany]
* [[Index:The government of Wyoming - the history, constitution and administration of affairs (IA governmentofwyom00heba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The principles of the administrative law of the United States (IA principlesofadmi00good).pdf]]
* [[Index:Statesman's handbook for Russia (IA statesmanshandbo00russrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warrussiangovern0000unse/ The war and the Russian government. The central government]
* [[Index:Modern customs and ancient laws of Russia; being the Ilchester lectures for 1889-90; (IA cu31924014085983).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lancasteryorkcen01rams/ Lancaster and York, Volume 1]
* [[Index:Lancaster and York; a century of English history (A.D. 1399-1485) (IA cu31924088011436).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:The houses of Lancaster and York, with the conquest and loss of France; (IA housesoflancaste01gair).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warsofroses00mowauoft/ The Wars of the Roses]
* [[Index:Wales and the wars of the Roses (IA waleswarsofroses00evanrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:English towns in the wars of the Roses (IA englishtownsinwa00wins).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal government in Ireland - medieval &amp; modern (IA municipalgovernm00webbrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/mindfaceofbolshe0000unse/ The Mind and Face of Bolshevism]
* [[Index:Men of the old stone age, their environment, life and art (IA menofoldstoneage00osborich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The English in the middle ages; from the Norman usurpation to the days of the Stuarts. Their mode of life, dress, arms, occupations, and amusements. As illustrated in the British Museum (IA englishinmiddlea00hodg).pdf]]
* [[Index:Arms and armour in antiquity and the middle ages - also a descriptive notice of modern weapons (IA b24865990).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/armourweapons00ffouuoft/ Armour &amp; Weapons]
* [https://archive.org/details/treatiseonancien00grosrich/ A treatise on ancient armour and weapons]
* [[Index:An illustrated history of arms and armour from the earliest period to the present time (IA illustratedhisto00demmrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Germany in the later Middle Ages, 1200-1500 (IA germanyinlatermi00stub).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ayliffejuriscanonici/ Parergon Juris Canonici Anglicani]
* [[Index:The Effects of Civilisation on the People in European States.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/developmentofeur0000smit/ The Development of European Law]
* [[Index:The Art of War in the Middle Ages (Chadwick, 1885, artofwarinmiddle00omanuoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:The History of the Isle of Man (1780, historyofisleofm00dubl).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 1 (1101-1377).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 2 (1377-1509).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 3 (1509-47).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 4, Part 1 (1547-84).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 4, Part 2 (1586-1625).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 5 (1628-80).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 6 (1685-94).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 7 (1695-1701).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 8 (1702-7).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 9 (1708-13).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm (Alphabetical Index).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm (Chronological Index).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Laws and Acts of Parliament of Scotland.djvu]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the middle ages (375-814) (IA introductiontost00emer).pdf]]
* [[Index:Villainage in England; essays in English mediaeval history (IA cu31924024908356).pdf]]
* [[Index:Law and politics in the middle ages, with a synoptic table of sources (IA cu31924030432532).pdf]]
* [[Index:De republica Anglorum. The maner of gouernement or policie of the realme of England, compiled by the honorable sir Thomas Smyth .. (IA ita-bnc-mag-00002562-001).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Lexicon of Medieval Nordic Law (OBP.0188, 2020).pdf]]
* [[Index:Runic and heroic poems of the old Teutonic peoples.djvu]]
* [[Index:The riddles of the Exeter book (IA riddlesofexeterb00tupp).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Law of the Westgoths - tr. Bergin - 1906.djvu]]
* [[Index:Laws of the Earliest English Kings.djvu]]
* [[Index:The sources of the law of England - an historical introduction to the study of English law (IA cu31924021687227).pdf]]
* [[Index:George Philips, Lex parliamentaria (1st ed, 1690).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of economics (IA historyofeconomi00macliala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indian currency and finance (IA indiancurrencyfi00keynuoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:An inquiry into the various systems of political economy- their advantages and disadvantages- and the theory most favourable to the increase of national wealth (IA inquiryintovario00gani).pdf]]
* [[Index:National system of political economy (IA nationalsystemof00list).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of political economy; or, Elementary view of the manner in which the wealth of nations is produced, increased, distributed, and consumed (IA introductiontost00boilrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Theory of Moral Sentiments.pdf]]
* [[Index:Treatise on Probability, Keynes, 1921.djvu]]
* [[Index:Monasticon Anglicanum, or, The history of the ancient abbies, and other monasteries, hospitals, cathedral and collegiate churches in England and Wales. With divers French, Irish (IA monasticonanglic00dugd).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of Gothic architecture (IA introductiontost00park 9).pdf]], 1st edition
* [[Index:Architecture; an introduction to the history and theory of the art of building (IA architectureintr00leth 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Race distinctions in American Law (IA racedistinctions00stepiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The law of city planning and zoning (IA lawofcityplannin00williala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The improvement of towns and cities - or, The practical basis of civic aesthetics (IA improvementoftow00robi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern civic art - or, The city made beautiful (IA moderncivicartor00robi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:A decade of civic development (IA decadeofcivicdev00zueb).pdf]]
* [[Index:City planning, with special reference to the planning of streets and lots (IA cu31924064909660).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern city planning and maintenance (IA moderncityplanni00koes).pdf]]
* [[Index:City planning; a series of papers presenting the essential elements of a city plan (IA cityplanningseri00noleiala).pdf]]

=====Labor, Socialism, Anarchism, Communist, Feminism, LGBTQ+=====
* [[Index:Americanism; a world menace (IA americanismworld00coly).pdf]]
* [[Index:Emma Goldman - The Social Significance of the Modern Drama - 1914.djvu]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx and modern socialism (IA karlmarxmodernso00salt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx; his life and work (IA cu31924002310864).pdf]], John Spargo, 1912
* [https://archive.org/details/karlmarxhislifew00rhle/ Karl Marx; his life and work, Otto Ruhle, 1929]
* [[Index:The old freedom (IA oldfreedom00neilrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A History of Socialism.pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/marxianeconomics00unte/ Marxian Economics]
* [https://archive.org/details/mindfaceofbolshe0000unse/ The Mind and Face of Bolshevism]
* [[Index:The revolt of democracy (IA revoltofdemocrac00wallrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/socialismofchris00bierrich/ Socialism of Christ]
* [[Index:German Social Democracy - Six Lectures by Bertrand Russell.djvu]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx - Wage Labor and Capital - tr. Harriet E. Lothrop (1902).djvu]]
* [[Index:The ego and his own (IA egohisown00stiriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ten blind leaders of the blind - by Arthur M. Lewis (IA tenblindleaderso00lewirich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Egoists, a book of supermen- (IA egoistsbookofsu00hune).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/philosophyofegoi00walk/ The Philosophy of Egoism]
* [[Index:Anarchism (Eltzbacher, 1908 English translation).djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Socialist Review (1900-1918), Vol. 1, Issue 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Jungle (1906).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anarchy and Anarchists (Schaack, 1889).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anarchism; a criticism and history of the anarchist theory (IA anarchismcritici00zenkiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Anarchism and socialism (IA anarchismsociali00plek).pdf]]
* [[Index:Trade unionism in the United States (IA cu31924013988195).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of trade unionism in the United States (IA historyoftradeun00perliala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/theoryoflabormov0000seli/ A Theory of the Labor Movement]
* [[Index:Communism in America; (IA communisminameri00jamerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA communistsocieties00nordrich).pdf]], The Communistic Societies of the United States
* [https://archive.org/details/leftwingunionism/ Left Wing Unionism]
* [[Index:Jay Lovestone - Blood and Steel (1923)).djvu]]
* ''History of American Socialisms'' {{esl|https://archive.org/details/historyofamerica00innoye/page/14/mode/2up}}
* [[Index:On labour, its wrongful claims and rightful dues, its actual present and possible future (IA onlabouritswrong00thor).pdf]]
* [[Index:Voluntary socialism; a sketch (IA voluntarysociali00tandrich).pdf]], 2nd edition
* [https://archive.org/details/voluntarysocial01tandgoog/ Voluntary Socialism, 1st Edition]
* [[Index:Arkady Joseph Sack - The Birth of the Russian Democracy (1918).djvu]]
* [[Index:The struggle for existence (IA struggleforexist00millrich).pdf]], First Edition
* [[Index:Direct action (IA directaction00mell).pdf]]

=====Racism, Antisemitism, National Socialism, KKK, Nationalism, Right, etc.=====
* [[Index:The revolt against civilization; the menace of the under man (IA cu31924016895975).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/reddragonblacksh00phil/ The &quot;Red&quot; Dragon and the Black Shirts]
* [https://archive.org/details/pragmaticrevolti00elli/ The pragmatic revolt in politics]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolinipopecom1501mcca/ Mussolini and the Pope]
* [https://archive.org/details/popeormussolini0000hear/ Pope or Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofbenitomuss00sarf/ The Life of Benito Mussolini, 6th Printing, UK Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofbenitomuss0000mang/ The Life of Benito Mussolini, 5th Printing, US Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/isantichristatha0000smit/ Is the Antichrist at hand? What of Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/historicalcauses00trevuoft/ The historical causes of the present state of affairs in Italy]
* [[Index:L. W. - Fascism, Its History and Significance (1924).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/makingfasciststa0000herb/ Making the Fascist State]
* [https://archive.org/details/the-need-for-fascism-in-great-britain The Need for Fascism in Great Britain]
* [https://archive.org/details/fascistdictators0001gaet/ The Fascist Dictatorship in Italy]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolininewital0000alex/ Mussolini and the New Italy]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolini0000unse/ Mussolini as Revealed in His Political Speeches]
* [[Index:Behold Our New Empire Mussolini (IA BeholdOurNewEmpireMussolini).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/1928UniversalAspectsOfFascism/ The Universal Aspects of Fascism, 1st Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/dli.ernet.5084/ The Universal Aspects of Fascism, 2nd Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/italytoday0000foxf/ Italy To-day]
* [https://archive.org/details/thetheoryofminda00gentuoft/ The Theory of Mind as a Pure Act]
* [https://archive.org/details/blackmagic00kenn/ Black Magic]
* [https://archive.org/details/pedigreeoffascis0000alin/ The Pedigree of Fascism]
* [https://archive.org/details/strenuousitalyso00gayh/ Strenuous Italy]
* [[Index:Sociology for the South - or, The failure of free society (IA sociologyforsout00fitz).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cannibals all! or, Slaves without masters (IA cannibalsallorsl00fitz).pdf]]
* [[Index:Negro-Mania- Being an Examination of the Falsely Assumed Equality of the Various Races of Men (IA DKC0100).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/outlawsdiary01tormuoft An Outlaw's Diary, Volume 1: Revolution]
* [https://archive.org/details/outlawsdiary02tormuoft An Outlaw's Diary, Volume 2: The Commune]
* [[Index:Meccania, the super-state (IA meccaniasupersta00greg).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/pangermanleague10000wert/ The Pan-German League]
* [[Index:The pan-Germanic doctrine; being a study of German political aims and aspirations (IA pangermanicdoctr00harrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Pan-germanism, its plans for German expansion in the world (IA pangermanismitsp00andlrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Antisemitism, its history and causes (IA antisemitismitsh00lazaiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/thenegroabeastorintheimageofgod/ &quot;The Negro A Beast&quot;, Or &quot;In The Image Of God&quot;]
* [https://archive.org/details/americannegrodependentdefectivedelinquent/ The American Negro]
* [https://archive.org/details/negroamenacetoamericancivilization/ The Negro]
* [https://archive.org/details/negrosouthernersproblem/ The Negro: The Southernor's Problem]
* [https://archive.org/details/negrocriminality_202001/ Negro Criminality]
* [https://archive.org/details/sexualcrimesamongsouthernnegroes/ Sexual Crimes among the Southern Negroes]
* [https://archive.org/details/whitesupremacyandnegrosubordination/ White Supremacy and Negro Subordination]
* [https://archive.org/details/slaveryasitrela00priegoog/ Slavery, as it Relates to the Negro]
* [[Index:Bible Defence of Slavery.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/TheRiddleOfTheJewsSuccess/ The Riddle of the Jews Success]
* [https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.38804/ Racial Elements Of European History]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 4.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/italyundermussol0000unse/ Italy under Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/romeordeathstory00beal/ Rome or Death! The Story of Fascism]
* [https://archive.org/details/odon-por.-fascism-1923_202107/ Fascism, Odon Por]
* [https://archive.org/details/fascistmovementi00gorguoft/ The Fascist Movement in Italian Life]
* [[Index:My Autobiography (1928) - by Benito Mussolini.pdf]]
* [[Index:The ravings of a renegade ; being the War essays of Houston Stewart Chamberlain (IA ravingsofrenegad00chamrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/foundationsofnin01cham/ The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century], Volume 1
* [https://archive.org/details/foundationsofnin02cham/ The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century], Volume 2
* [[Index:Decline of the West (Volume 1).djvu]]
* [[Index:Decline of the West (Volume 2).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Decline of the West.pdf]], combined Volume, 1932 edition
* [[Index:The inequality of human races (1915).djvu]]
* [[Index:The moral and intellectual diversity of races - with particular reference to their respective influence in the civil and political history of mankind (IA bub gb uRvNQHqLj0kC).pdf]]
* [[Index:The passing of the great race; or, The racial basis of European history (IA passingofgreatra01gran).pdf]], 4th Edition
* [[Index:The passing of the great race; or, The racial basis of European history (IA cu31924029874330).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Ku Klux Klan (H.H. Wilson Reference Shelf) (IA kukluxklan00john).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Klan unmasked, (IA klanunmasked00simm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Catalogue of Official Robes and Banners - Knights of the Ku Klux Klan Incorporated, Atlanta, Georgia (1925) - Catalogueofoffic00kukl.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Ku Klux klan- a study of the American mind (IA kukluxklanastudy00meck).pdf]]
* [[Index:Papers read at the meeting of Grand dragons, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at their first- annual meet (IA papersreadatmeet01kukl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/authentichistor00davi/ Authentic history, Ku Klux Klan, 1865-1877]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924083530117/ The Ku Klux Klan or Invisible Empire]

==== Ancient Rome/Byzantine Studies/Latin/Classics ====
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924028520728/ Syria as a Roman Province]
* [https://archive.org/details/spainunderromane00bouc/ Spain under the Roman Empire]
* [[Index:The Gracchi, Marius, and Sulla (IA cu31924074596879).pdf]]
* [[Index:Seven Roman statesmen of the later republic- The Gracchi. Sulla. Crassus. Cato. Pompey. Caesar (IA sevenromanstates00oman).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romaneducationfr0000gwyn_n9h9/ Roman education from Cicero to Quintilian]
* [[Index:Manual of classical literature (IA manualofclassica00eschrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofhistoryo00mattuoft/ A manual of the history of Greek and Roman literature]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofclassica00morr/ A Manual of Classical Literature]
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212877).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 1
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212885).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 2
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212893).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 3
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern0001unse/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern00sheruoft/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern03sheruoft/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 3]
* [[Index:The Roman empire- essays on the constitutional history from the accession of Domitian (81 A. D.) to the retirement of Nicephorus III (1081 A.D.) (IA romanempireessay01bussiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman empire- essays on the constitutional history from the accession of Domitian (81 A. D.) to the retirement of Nicephorus III (1081 A.D.) (IA romanempireessay02bussiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineempirer0000foor/ The Byzantine Empire]
* [[Index:The history of Greece - from its conquest by the crusaders to its conquest by the Turks, and of the empire of Trebizond ; 1204-1461 (IA historyofgreecef00finl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/fastiromanicivil01clinuoft/ Fasti Romani, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/fastiromanicivil02clinuoft/ Fasti Romani, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/churcheasternemp00toze/ The Church and the Eastern Empire]
* [[Index:Roman society in the last century of the Western empire (IA cu31924028321333).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romansocietyinla0000dill/ roman society in the last century of the western empire, 2nd edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/jurisprudenceofj00ewin/ The Jurisprudence of the Jewish Courts in Egypt]
* [[Index:Some phases of the problem of provincial administration under the Roman republic (IA somephasesofprob00mars).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/phasescorruptio01jollgoog/ Phases of corruption in Roman administration in the last half-century of the Roman republic]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanpoliticalin0000homo_f4f9/ Roman political institutions from city to state]
* [[Index:A history of Rome to 565 A. D. (IA cu31924028286726).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofrometo500boak_0/ A history of Rome to 565 A.D., 2nd Edition, 1929]
* [[Index:A general history of Rome from the foundation of the city to the fall of Augustulus, B.C. 753-A.D. 476 (IA cu31924031259587).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rome- from the fall of the western empire (IA romefromfallofwe00trev).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/studyofcognomina00deanuoft/ A study of the cognomina of soldiers in the Roman legions]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlegions0000park_q5m2/ The Roman Legions]
* [https://archive.org/details/sourcebookofroma0000munr/ A source book of Roman history]
* [[Index:Was the Roman army provided with medical officers? (electronic resource) (IA b21464625).pdf]]
* [[Index:Infamia- its place in Roman public and private law (IA cu31924021131531).pdf]]
* [[Index:The reorganization of Spain by Augustus (IA reorganization00vannrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/publiclibrariesl00boyduoft/ Public Libraries and Literary Culture in Ancient Rome]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofrome00leigiala/ A History of Rome]
* [https://archive.org/details/greeceunderroman00finluoft/ Greece under the Romans]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineportrai00dieh/ Byzantine Portraits]
* [https://archive.org/details/expressesofconta0000unse/ The Empresses of Constantinople]
* [[Index:Roman public life (IA romanpubliclife00greeiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Arab conquest of Egypt and the last thirty years of the Roman dominion (IA arabconquestofeg00butl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/jurisprudenceofj00ewin/ The Jurisprudence of the Jewish Courts in Egypt]
* [https://archive.org/details/greekromanfolklo0000hall_x8n7/ Greek and Roman Folklore]
* [[Index:Public lands and agrarian laws of the Roman republic- (IA publiclandsagrar00step).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sixromanlaws00harduoft/ Six Roman Laws]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/twostudiesinlate0000unse/ Two studies in later Roman and Byzantine administration]
* [https://archive.org/details/freshlightonroma0000jone/ Fresh Light on Roman Bureaucracy]
* [https://archive.org/details/christianityroma0000addi/ Christianity and the Roman Empire]
* [[Index:Christianity and the Roman government (IA christianityroma00hardrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early Christians in Rome (1911).djvu]]
* [[Index:Historical revelations of the relation existing between Christianity and paganism since the disintegration of the Roman Empire (IA historicalrevela00juli).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Christians in Rome (IA christiansinrome00mobe).pdf]]
* [[Index:Woman ; her position and influence in ancient Greece and Rome, and among the early Christians .. (IA womanherposition00donarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The story of the Romans; (IA storyromans00guergoog).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman Africa; an outline of the history of the Roman occupation of North Africa, based chiefly upon inscriptions and monumental remains in that country (IA cu31924028722134).pdf]]
* [[Index:An outline of Greek and Roman history, the result of class room work (IA outlineofgreekro00chad).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/the-illustrated-history-of-rome-and-the-roman-empire-1877/ The Illustrated History of Rome And The Roman Empire]
* [https://archive.org/details/christianitynati00wooduoft/ Christianity and Nationalism in the Later Roman Empire]
* [[Index:The conversion of the Roman empire (IA conversionofrom00meri).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintohi00ihneuoft/ Researches into the history of the Roman constitution]
* [[Index:Traces of Greek philosophy and Roman law in the New Testament (IA cu31924029302423).pdf]]
* [[Index:UPenn-Translations and Reprints-vol6.djvu]]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161302).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161344).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161310).pdf]], Volume 3
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161419).pdf]], Volume 4 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr04greg/ Volume 4 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161351).pdf]], Volume 5 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr05greg/ Volume 5 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161369).pdf]], Volume 6 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityo06greguoft/ Volume 6 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161377).pdf]], Volume 7 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr07greg/ Volume 7 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161385).pdf]], Volume 8 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr08greg/ Volume 8 Part 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancienttownplan00have/ Ancient Town-planning]
* [[Index:The Ancient City- A Study on the Religion, Laws, and Institutions of Greece and Rome.djvu]]
* [[Index:Physical science in the time of Nero; being a translation of the Quaestiones naturales of Seneca (IA physicalsciencei00seneiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman and the Teuton; a series of lectures delivered before the University of Cambridge (IA romanteutonserie01king).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineartarch00dalt/ Byzantine Art and Archaeology]
* [[Index:The history of Etruria .. (IA historyofetruria01gray).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:The history of Etruria .. (IA historyofetruria02gray).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:The cities and cemeteries of Etruria (IA etruriacitiesand01denniala).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:The cities and cemeteries of Etruria (IA etruriacitiesand02denniala).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:Etruria-Celtica- Etruscan Literature and Antiquities Investigated, in Two Volumes, Vol. I (IA dli.granth.53608).pdf]], Volume 1
* [https://archive.org/details/etruriacelticaet02beth/ Etruria-Celtica] Volume 2
* [https://archive.org/details/etruscanresearch00tayl/ Etruscan Researches]
* [[Index:Etruscan inscriptions (IA etruscaninscript00crawrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Etruscan Bologna- a study (IA etruscanbolognas00burtiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman imperialism (IA romanimperialism00fran).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tacitus and Other Roman Studies.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/invasionofeurope0000jbbu/ the invasion of europe by the barbarians]
* [[Index:A constitutional and political history of Rome, from the earliest times to the reign of Domitian (IA cu31924030431435).pdf]]
* [[Index:The development of the Roman constitution (IA developmentofrom00tighrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Coins of the Romans relating to Britain, described and illustrated (IA coinsofromansrel00aker).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the ancient Britons, from the earliest period to the invasion of the Saxons (IA historyofancient00gile).pdf]]
* [[Index:The invasion of Britain by Julius Caesar (IA invasionofbritai00lewi).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman era in Britain (IA romanerainbritai00wardiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Romanization of Roman Britain (IA romanizationofro00haverich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman roads in Britain (IA romanroadsinbrit00codr).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Celt, the Roman, and the Saxon; (IA celtromansaxon00wrig).pdf]]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient Britain in the light of modern archaeological discoveries (IA ancientbritainin00delm).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintoec01thac/ Researches into the ecclesiastical and political state of ancient Britain under the Roman emperors, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintoec02thac/ Researches into the ecclesiastical and political state of ancient Britain under the Roman emperors, Volume 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofpictsor00abbauoft/ A History of the Picts or Romano-British Wall]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanfrontierpos0000jame/ A Roman frontier post and its people]
* [[Index:Illustrations of Roman London (IA illustrationsofr00smitrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/londiniumarchite0000wrle/ Londinium Architecture and the Crafts]
* [https://archive.org/details/ourromanhighways00forbuoft/ Our Roman Highways]
* [[Index:History of Romulus (IA historyofromulusabbott).pdf]]
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00don).pdf]]
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the ethnography of ancient Italy and to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00donarich).pdf]], 2nd edition.
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the ethnography of ancient Italy and to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00dona).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [https://archive.org/details/primitiveitalybe0000homo/ Primitive Italy and the beginnings of Roman imperialism]
* [https://archive.org/details/stonebronzeagesi00peetuoft/ The stone and bronze ages in Italy and Sicily]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineempire00foor/ The Byzantine Empire (Edward Foord)]
* [[Index:The Byzantine Empire (IA byzantineempire00omanrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on Byzantine music (IA cu31924022269744).pdf]]
* [[Index:Constantine the Great; the reorganisation of the empire and the triumph of the church (IA constantinegreat00firt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Constantine, the last emperor of the Greeks; or, The conquest of Constantinople by the Turks (A.D. 1453) after the latest historical researches; (IA constantinelaste00mijarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine history in the early Middle Ages; the Rede lecture, delivered in the Senate House, Cambridge, June 12, 1900 (IA cu31924005774702).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine architecture; illustrated by examples of edifices erected in the East during the earliest ages of Christianity, with historical &amp; archaeological descriptions (IA gri 33125009314648).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman emperor worship (IA cu31924028269490).pdf]]
* [[Index:The last Cæsars of Byzantium (IA lastcsarsofbyzan00todi).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Latins in the Levant - a history of Frankish Greece, 1204-1566 (IA latinsinlevanthi00mill 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Fall of Constantinople.djvu]]
* [[Index:Destruction of the Greek Empire.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Romane historie (IA romanehistorie00livy).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman assemblies from their origin to the end of the republic (IA cu31924030431534).pdf]]
* [[Index:The imperial civil service of Rome (IA imperialcivilser00matt).pdf]]
* [[Index:A handbook of Greek constitutional history (IA handbookofgreekc00gree).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romeregalrepubli00striuoft/ Rome, Regal and Republican]
* [https://archive.org/details/dayinoldromepic00davi/ A Day in Old Rome]
* [[Index:The general, civil and military administration of Noricum and Raetia (IA generalcivilmili00peakrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Life and letters in Roman Africa microform (IA lifelettersinrom00boucrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Romae antiquae notitia, or, The antiquities of Rome - in two parts ... - with copper cuts of the principal buildings, etc. - to which are prefix'd two essays (IA romaeantiquaenot00kenn 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:A manual of Greek literature - from the earliest authentic periods to the close of the Byzantine era (IA manualgreek00anthrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/studentscompanio00midd/ The student's companion to Latin authors]
* [[Index:Loeb Classical Library, L001 (1919).djvu]]
* A History of the Republic of Rome {{esl|https://archive.org/details/historyofrepubli00bake/}}
* [[Index:Philological museum (IA cu31924104094903).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:Philological Museum v2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 1, 1854.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 2, 1855.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 3, 1857.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 4, 1859.djvu]]
* [[Index:Harper's dictionary of classical literature and antiquities (IA cu31924027019482).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities (1842, dictionaryofgree00smit 5).djvu]]
* [[Index:The auxilia of the Roman Imperial Army (IA auxiliaofromanim00cheerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1827) Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Topography and Monuments of Ancient Rome (1st Ed., Plattner, 1904, topographymonume0000plat v8a2).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine Constantinople - the walls of the city and adjoining historical sites (IA byzantineconstan00vanm).pdf]]
* A Companion To Latin Studies {{esl|https://archive.org/details/companiontolatin00sand/}}
* [[Index:A handbook of Rome and the Campagna (IA handbookofromeca00john 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Stories of ancient Rome (IA storiesofancient00rico).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early Rome (IA earlyrome00ihne).pdf]]
* [[Index:Men, events, lawyers, politics and politicians of early Rome (IA meneventslawyers00wage).pdf]]
* [[Index:State and family in early Rome (IA statefamilyinear00launiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The seven kings of the Seven Hills (IA sevenkingsofseve00lain).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_T2-CGU-516/ Rome of the Kings: An Archaeological Setting for Livy and Vergil]
* [[Index:The history of the kings of Rome. With a prefatory dissertation on its sources and evidence (IA historyofkingsof00dyerrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The kings of Rome (IA kingsofrome00rico).pdf]]
* [[Index:Regal Rome, an Introduction to Roman History (1852, Newman, London, regalromeintrodu00newmuoft).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_T2-CGU-516/ Rome of the Kings: An Archaeological Setting for Livy and Vergil]
* [https://archive.org/details/primitivefortif00parkgoog/ The primitive fortifications of the city of Rome, 2nd Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/handbookofromanl0000radi/ handbook of roman law]
* [[Index:The origin and history of contract in Roman law down to the end of the republican period - being the Yorke prize essay for the year 1893 (IA cu31924021131366).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_a-new-pandect-of-roman-c_ayliffe-john_1734/ A new pandect of Roman civil law]
* [[Index:Preliminary Lecture to the Course of Lectures on the Institutions of Justinian (Wilde, 1794, bim eighteenth-century preliminary-lecture-to-t wilde-john 1794).pdf]]
* An introduction to the study of Justinian's digest {{esl|https://archive.org/details/introductiontost00roby/}}
* [[Index:The ecclesiastical edicts of the Theodosian code (IA ecclesiasticaled00boydrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/legacyofrome00bail/ The Legacy of Rome]
* [[Index:Nomos Rhodon nautikos. The Rhodian sea-law (IA nomosrhodonnauti00byzarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early Roman Law, The Regal Period (Clark, 1872, earlyromanlawreg00claruoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:Roman Britain (Collingwood, First Ed., 1924, b29827590).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical introduction to the private law of Rome (IA historicalintrod00muiriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Gaii institutionum iuris civilis commentarii quattuor, or, Elements of Roman law by Gaius (Poste, Third Edition, 1890, gaiiinstitution00gaiu).djvu]]
* [[Index:A history and description of Roman political institutions (IA historyanddescri00abbo).pdf]]
* [[Index:Britannia Romana, or, The Roman Antiquities of Britain in Three Books (britanniaromanao00hors, John Horsley, 1732).djvu]]
* [[Index:The municipalites of the Roman empire (IA municipalitesofr00reidrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Selected Letters of Cicero (Abbott, 1897, selectedletterso0000cice u2i6).pdf]]
* [[Index:Society and politics in ancient Rome; essays and sketches (IA cu31924087980326).pdf]]
* [[Index:The common people of ancient Rome- studies of Roman life and literature (IA cu31924028267841).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman system of provincial administration to the accession of Constantine the Great, being the Arnold prize essay for 1879 (IA romansystemofpro00arnoiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/twostudiesinlate0000unse/ Two Studies in Later Roman and Byzantine Administration]
* [[Index:The imperial administrative system in the ninth century, with a revised text of Kletorologion of Philotheos (IA imperialadminist00buryrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal Administration in the Roman Empire (1926, Abbot and Johnson, municipaladminis00abbo).pdf]]

==== Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics ====
* [[Index:Pseudodoxia epidemica, or, Enquiries into very many received tenents, and commonly presumed truths (IA b30335760).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cycling (IA cyclingc00alberich).pdf]], Cycling, Badminton Library, 5th Edition
* [[Index:The bicycle- its care and repair (IA bicycleitscarere00vonc).pdf]]
* [[Index:https://archive.org/details/commonsenseofbic00ward/]], Bicycling for ladies
* [https://archive.org/details/helptotheunlearn00trimuoft/ A help to the unlearned in the study of the Holy Scriptures]
* [[Index:Origin of Modern Calculating Machines.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.2.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.3.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.4.djvu]]
* [[Index:A general history of mathematics from the earliest times to the middle of the eighteenth century (IA generalhistoryof00bossrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The teaching and history of mathematics in the United States (IA teachinghistoryo00cajorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Higher mathematics - a textbook for classical and engineering colleges (IA highermathematic00merrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to mathematics, by A. N. Whitehead (IA introductiontoma00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cornell University Library digitization (IA cu31924001078777).pdf]], Mathematical Dictionary and Cyclopedia of Mathematical Science
* [https://archive.org/details/principlesofmech00hertuoft/ The Principles of Mechanics]
* [[Index:Collected papers in physics and engineering (IA collectedpapersi00thomrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Theory of functions of a complex variable (IA functcomplexvari00forsrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the elements of the differential and integral calculus (IA introductiontost00harnrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on elementary trigonometry (IA treatiseonelemen00lockrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Elementary trigonometry (IA elementarytrigon00paterich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Earliest arithmetics in English (IA earliestarithmet00alexrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical introduction to mathematical literature (IA cu31924064123536).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/calculus0000henr/ Calculus]
* [https://archive.org/details/electiccircuitth0000john Electric Circuit Theory and the Operational Calculus]
* [[Index:Graphical and mechanical computation (IA cu31924004667550).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on computation; an account of the chief methods for contracting and abbreviating arithmetical calculations (IA treatiseoncomput00langiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to mathematics, by A. N. Whitehead (IA introductiontoma00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Daedalus; or, Science and the Future (1924, E.P. Dutton &amp; Company).pdf]]
* [[Index:Science (journal) Volume 1 1883.djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 1 (1837).djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 2 (1841).djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 3 (1843).djvu]]
* [[Index:Getty Research Institute (IA economiccottageb00dwye).pdf]], The Economic Cottage Builder
* [[Index:Elements of angling; a book for beginners (IA elementsofanglin00sherrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A book on angling; being a complete treatise on the art of angling in every branch (IA bookonanglingbei00franrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Fishcraft, a treatise on fresh water fish and fishing (IA fishcrafttreatis00pond).pdf]]
* [[Index:The potter's craft - a practical guide for the studio and workshop (IA potterscraftprac00binn 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of camping and woodcraft - a guidebook for those who travel in the wilderness (IA bookofcampingwoo00keph).pdf]]
* [[Index:Camp craft, modern practice and equipment (IA campcraftmodernp00millrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Camp kits and camp life (IA campkitscamplife00hankiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of woodcraft (IA bookofwoodcraft00seto).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of woodcraft and Indian lore (IA bookofwoodcrafti02seto).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Harper's camping and scouting; an outdoor guide for American boys; (IA harperscampingsc00grinrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Shelters, shacks, and shanties (IA sheltersshackssh01bear).pdf]]
* [[Index:The electric telegraph - its history and progress.. (IA electrictelegrap00highrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Electricity, magnetism, and electric telegraphy; a practical guide and hand-book of general information for electrical students, operators, and inspectors (IA electricitymagne00lockrich).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1883
* [[Index:Electricity, magnetism, and electric telegraphy; a practical guide and hand-book of general information for electrical students, operators, and inspectors (IA electricitymagne00lock).pdf]], 3rd Edition, 1890
* [[Index:Davis's manual of magnetism - including galvanism, magnetism, electro-magnetism, electro-dynamics, magneto-electricity, and thermo-electricity (IA davissmanualofma00davi).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical sketch of the electric telegraph including its rise and progress in the United States (IA historicalsketch00jonerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity and galvanism; with cases, shewing their effects in the cure of diseases (IA b22042684).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity - in six sections ... (IA introductiontoel1770ferg).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity. In six sections ... - illustrated with copper plates (IA b30501350).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity. In six sections ... (IA introductiontoel00ferg).pdf]], 3rd Edition]]
* [https://archive.org/details/dynamoelectricit00pres/ Dynamo-electricity]
* [https://archive.org/details/radioactivit00ruth/ Radio-activity]
* [https://archive.org/details/electronnuclearp0000jbar/ Electrons and Nuclear Physics]
* [https://archive.org/details/ionselectronsion00crowuoft/ Ions, Electrons, and Ionizing Radiations]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29927997/ Atoms and Rays]
* [[Index:Atomic theories (IA atomictheories00loririch).pdf]]
* [[Index:X-ray manual - U.S. Army (IA xraymanualusarmy00unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl01amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl02amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl03amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl04amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:The study of the atom - or, The foundation of chemistry (IA studyofatomorfou00venarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The method of fluxions and infinite series.djvu]]
* [[Index:Practical observations on the generation of statical electricity by the electrical machine (IA 101208559.nlm.nih.gov).pdf]]
* [[Index:American Journal of Mathematics Vol. 2 (1879).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of radio communication (IA principlesofradi00morerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Electrical machine design; the design and specification of direct and alternating current machinery .. (IA electricalmachin00grayrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Incandescent wiring hand-book, (IA incandescentwiri00badt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Bell System Technical Journal, Volume 1, 1922.pdf]]
* [[Index:Science Advances, Volume 8, Issue 44, Recursive sequence generation in crows (sciadv.abq3356).pdf]]
* [[Index:An Investigation of the Laws of Thought (1854, Boole, investigationofl00boolrich).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anatomy of the Human Body (1918).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/b30322704/ An Institution Trigonometricall, 1635]
* [https://archive.org/details/McGillLibrary-rbsc_elements-geometrie-evclide-megara_folioQA31E867131570-21289/ Euclid's Geometrie, 1570]
* [[Index:Mr. Wingate's Arithmetick Containing a Plain and Familiar Method, for Attaining the Knowledge and Practice of Common Arithmetick (7th Edition, Edmund Wingate, 1678, b30342211).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mathematical Recreations or, a Collection of many Problems Extracted out of the Ancient and Modern Philosophers (Jean Leurechon, 1674, b30325882).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lux Mercatoria - Bridges - 1661.djvu]]
* [[Index:First book of mathematics, being an easy and practical introduction to the study; for self-instruction and use in schools (IA firstbookofmathe00reidrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indian Basketry.djvu]]
* [[Index:Machinery's Handbook, (6th Edition, 1924, machineryshandbo00indu).pdf]]
* [[Index:De re metallica (1912).djvu]]

=====Nature, Zoology, Entomology, Myrmecology, and other Insects and Animals=====
* [[Index:Chapters on ants (IA chaptersonants00trearich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Observations on the biology of the imported fire ant (IA observationsonbi49inse).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/collectedpaperso00whee/ Collected Papers on Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/biologicalembryo00tanq_0/ Biological and embryological studies on Formicidae]
* [[Index:Comparative studies in the psychology of ants and of higher animals (IA comparativestudi00wasmiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/learningorientat00schn/ Learning and Orientation in Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.460830/ Ants, by Julian Huxley...need better scan]
* [https://archive.org/details/demonsofdust0000will/ Demons of the Dust: A Study in Insect Behavior]
* [https://archive.org/details/sociallifeamongi00whee/ Social Life Among the Insects]
* [[Index:Life in an ant hill, (IA lifeinanthill00writ).pdf]]
* [[Index:Insect architecture (IA b22026885).pdf]], 1830, 1st Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/antpeople0000ewer/ The Ant People]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_P9-CSD-957/ Busy: The Life of Ant], novel
* [[Index:Ants and the children of the garden, relating the habits of the black harvester ant, and giving considerable information about ants in general (IA antsthechildreno00simkrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Field book of insects (IA fieldbookofins00lutz).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Field book of insects, with special reference to those of northeastern United States, aiming to answer common questions (IA fieldbookofinsec00lutz).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Ants and their ways, with illustrations, and an appendix giving a complete list of genera and species of the British ants (IA antstheirwayswit00whit).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/naturescraftsmen00mcco/ Nature's Craftsmen]
* [[Index:Ant communities and how they are governed; a study in natural civics (IA antcommunitiesho00mcco).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ants, Wheeler (1910).djvu]]
* [[Index:Ants and some other insects; an inquiry into the psychic powers of these animals (IA antssomeotherins00fore).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA treatiseofbuggss00sout).pdf]], A treatise of buggs
* [[Index:Insect transformations (IA b22027191).pdf]]
* [[Index:Institutions of entomology- being a translation of Linnaeus's Ordines et genera insectorum; or, Systematic arrangement of insects (IA CUbiodiversity1115923).pdf]]
* [[Index:The elements of insect anatomy; an outline for the use of students in the entomological laboratories of Cornell University and Leland Stanford Junior University (IA elementsofinsect00comsto).pdf]]
* [[Index:The entomologist's text book - an introduction to the natural history, structure, physiology and classification of insects, including the Crustacea and Arachnida (IA entomologiststex00westw).pdf]]
* [[Index:The natural history of ants (IA b29289981).pdf]]
* [[Index:The natural history of insects (IA b28755741).pdf]]
* [[Index:An Account of English Ants (Gould, 1747, IA accountofenglish00goul).pdf]]
* [[Index:Journal of the Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia (IA journalofacademy01acaduoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Aristotle - History of Animals, 1883.djvu]]
* [[Index:The play of animals (IA playofanimals00groouoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Animals at work and play - their activities and emotions (IA animalsatworkpla00cornuoft).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Animals at work and play, their activities and emotions (IA animalsatworkpla00cornrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/animalsatworkpla00corn/ Animals at Work and Play, 3rd Edition]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb01aalba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb02alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb03alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb04alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb05alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb06alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb07alba).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/psychobiology01baltuoft/ Psychobiology V1]
* [https://archive.org/details/psychobiology02baltuoft/ Psychobiology V2]
* [[Index:Ants, bees, and wasps. A record of observations on the habits of the social Hymenoptera (IA antsbeeswaspsrec00john).pdf]]
* [[Index:The bee and white ants, their manners and habits - with illustrations of animal instinct and intelligence - from &quot;The museum of science and art&quot; ... (IA beewhiteantsthei00lardrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofwhiteant00maet/ The Life of the White Ant], plagiarized from [[The Soul of the White Ant]] by [[Author:Eugène Nielen Marais|Eugène Nielen Marais]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofant0000maet/ The Life of the Ant]
* [[Index:Mind in animals (IA mindinanimals00bchniala).pdf]]
* [[Index:British ants, their life-history and classification (IA britishantstheir00donirich).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1915
* [https://archive.org/details/britishants0000jkdo/ British Ants, 2nd Edition, 1927]
* [https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/002009241/ The Guests of British Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/hymenopteraacule00saun/ The Hymenoptera Aculeata of the British Islands]
* [[Index:Elementary lessons in zoölogy - a guide in studying animal life and structure in field and laboratory (IA elementarylesso00need).pdf]]
* [[Index:Some common mushrooms and how to know them (IA somecommonmushr143char).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/fungihowtoknowth00swan/ Fungi and How to Know Them]
* [https://archive.org/details/britishsocialwas00ormeuoft/ British Social Wasps]

====Fantasy, Fiction, Poetry, Tolkien, Etc.====
* [[Index:The story of Sigurd the Volsung and the fall of the Niblungs (IA storyofsigurdvol00morriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Translation of the Anglo-Saxon Poem of Beowulf (Kemble 1837).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Worm Ouroboros - 1922.djvu]]
* [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]
* [[Index:Tolkien - A middle English Vocabulary.djvu]]
* [[Index:Fourteenth_Century_Verse_and_Prose_-_Sisam_-_1921.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Review of English Studies Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Mabinogion; (IA mabinogion00schrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The gods of Pegana (IA godsofpegana00duns).pdf]]
* [[Index:John Martin Crawford - The Kalevala (Vol 1) - (IA cu31924026852917).pdf]]
* [[Index:John Martin Crawford - The Kalevala (Vol 2) - (IA cu31924030974038).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early English romances in verse- (IA earlyenglishroma00rickrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Middle English reader - edited, with grammatical introduction notes, and glossary (IA middleenglishrea00emerrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The most delectable history of Reynard the Fox; (IA mostdelectablehi00jacorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The most delectable history of Reynard the Fox, and of his son Reynardine - a revised version of an old romance (IA mostdelectablehi00londiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Reynard the Fox, a poem in twelve cantos (IA reynardfoxpoemin00hollrich).pdf]]

====Games, Tabletop, Wargame, Military, RPG, Videogame, etc.====
* [[Index:Ship and gun drills, United States navy, 1905 (IA shipgundrillsuni00unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:Naval administration and warfare - some general principles, with other essays (IA navaladministrat00maha).pdf]]
* [[Index:Naval administration and warfare (IA navaladministrat01maha).pdf]], 1918 reprint
* [[Index:Routine book, including general features of organization, administration, and ordinary station bills (IA routinebookinclu00belk).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/yashkamylifeaspe00bochuoft/ Yashka, my life as peasant, exile and soldier]
* [[Index:An account of the organization of the army of the United States (IA orgzofthearmyusa01robirich).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:An account of the organization of the army of the United States (IA orgofthearmyusa01robirich).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:Military and naval America (IA militaryandnaval00kerriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Routine book, including general features of organization, administration, and ordinary station bills (IA routinebookinclu00belk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Yankee navy (IA yankeenavy00mass).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Yankee mining squadron; or, Laying the North sea mine barrage (IA yankeeminingsqua00belk).pdf]]
* [[Index:779th Radar Squadron (ADC) Opheim AFS Montana New Personnel Brochure 1973.pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancientmodernshi00holmuoft/ Ancient and Modern Ships: Part I]
* [https://archive.org/details/sailingshipsstor00chatuoft/ Sailing ships : the story of their development from earliest times to the present day]
* [[Index:The British navy (IA cu31924030756146).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ships of the Royal Navy (IA shipsofroyalnavy00park).pdf]]
* [[Index:The British Navy from within (IA britishnavyfromw00exrorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The British navy in battle (IA britishnavyinbat00poll).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/popularhistoryof00kinguoft/ A Popular history of the British Navy from the earliest times to the present]
* [[Index:The Royal Navy (IA cu31924028018574).pdf]]
* [[Index:The German army in war (IA germanarmyinwar00atterich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Handbook on German army identification (IA handbookongerman02unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:The war book of the German general staff; being &quot;the usages of war on land&quot; issued by the great general staff of the German army; (IA warbookofgermang00newyiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The German army. Department of military art, the Army service schools (IA germanarmydepart00bjorrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes on field fortifications (IA notesonfieldfort00armyrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military organization of the United States (IA militaryorganiza00comm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Army and Navy Uniforms and Insignia (Williams, 1918, armynavyuniforms00will).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military and naval recognition book; a handbook on the organization, insignia of rank, and customs of the service of the world's important armies and navies (IA militarynavalrec00bunkrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Military and naval recognition book, a handbook on the organization, insignia of rank, and customs of the service of the world's important armies and navies (IA recognitionmilitary00bunkrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Orders, decorations and insignia, military and civil; with the history and romance of their origin and a full description of each (IA ordersdecoration00wyllrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military Organization and Administration (Collins, 1918, militaryorganiza00colluoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Organization; how armies are formed for war (IA organizationhowa00fostiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Company administration - preparation, disposition, and filing of company records, reports, and returns (IA c00ompanyadministrunitrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Dungeons &amp; Dragons System Reference Document.pdf]]
* [[Index:John Banks Wilson - Maneuver and Firepower (1998).djvu]]
* [[Index:FM-34-45-Tactics-Techniques-and-Procedures-for-Electronic-Attack.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fm100-2-3 - The Soviet Army, Troops, Organization, and Equipment.pdf]]
* [[Index:United States Army Field Manual 3-13 Information Operations.djvu]]

====Asia====
* [[Index:Eastern Asia, a history, being the second edition of A brief history of eastern Asia, entirely rewritten (IA easternasiahisto00hannrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofchinabe0000unse/ A History of China]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancienthistoryof00hirtuoft/ The ancient history of China to the end of the Chóu dynasty]
* [[Index:A little history of China, and a Chinese story (IA littlehistoryofc00brebiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of China; (IA historyofchina00will).pdf]]
* [[Index:The three religions of China; lectures delivered at Oxford (IA cu31924023204062).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tibet, Tartary, and Mongolia ; their social and political condition, and the religion of Boodh, as there existing (IA tibettartarymong00prin).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of tea - a Japanese harmony of art culture and the simple life (IA bookofteajapanes00okakrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of Corea, ancient and modern - with description of manners and customs, language and geography (IA cu31924023564549).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of Corea, Ancient and Modern; with Description of Manners and Customs, Language and Geography WDL2374.pdf]], Cheaper Edition, 1891.
* [https://archive.org/details/anglicanchurchin00corf/ The Anglican Church in Corea]
* [[Index:Corea, the hermit nation. I. Ancient and mediaeval history. II. Political and social Corea. III. Modern and recent history (IA coreahermitnatio00grif).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/coreawithoutwith00grif_0/ Corea, Without and Within]
* [[Index:Who is God in China.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924023233947/ The early institutional life of Japan]
* [[Index:The development of religion in Japan (IA developmentofrel00knoxrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The religions of Japan - from the dawn of history to the era of Méiji - by William Elliott Griffis (IA religionsofjapan00grifrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/japanaccountgeog00macfuoft/ Japan]
* [https://archive.org/details/ost-art-japaneseart00hartuoft/ Japanese Art]
* [[Index:Old and new Japan (IA oldnewjapan00hollrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Japan as it was and is. (IA japanasitwasis00hild 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Japanese empire- its physical, political, and social condition and history; with details of the late American and British expeditions (IA japaneseempireit01kemi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Japanese empire and its economic conditions (IA japaneseempireit00daut).pdf]]
* [[Index:The present state of the medical administration of the Japanese empire (IA presentstateofme00japaiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Japan - its architecture, art, and art manufactures (IA japanitsarchitec00dres 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:China, Japan and Korea (IA chinajapankorea00blan).pdf]]
* [[Index:Korea (IA korea00coul).pdf]]
* [[Index:Quaint Korea (IA quaintkorea00milnrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Kaempfer History of Japan 1727 vol 2 (IA historyofjapangi02kaem).pdf]]
* [[Index:Kaempfer History of Japan 1727 vol 1 (IA historyofjapangi01kaem).pdf]]
* [[Index:A dissertation on the theology of the Chinese, - with a view to the elucidation of the most appropriate term for expressing the Diety in the Chinese language. (IA dissertationonth00medhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Abstract of four lectures on Buddhist literature in China - delivered at University college, London (IA cu31924023158607).pdf]]
* [[Index:Index:The Chinese Classics - Legge - 2nd ed - 1893 - Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Synoptical studies in the Chinese character (1874).djvu]]
* [[Index:Elementary Chinese - San Tzu Ching (1900).djvu]]
* [[Index:An Anglo-Chinese vocabulary of the Ningpo dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Easy sentences in the Hakka dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:A dictionary of the Hakka dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Chinese-English Dictionary Hakka-dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:Nestorian Monument - Carus.djvu]]
* [[Index:An alphabetical index to the Chinese encyclopaedia.pdf]]
* [[Index:Sun Tzu on The art of war.djvu]]
* [[Index:A Chinese Biographical Dictionary.djvu]]
* [[Index:Pekinese Rhymes (G. Vitale, 1896).djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese Life in the Tibetan Foothills.djvu]]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA dictionaryofhokk00medhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Excellent ancient adages, together with notes on the writings of Chinese romanized in the Hokkien dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Essays on the Chinese Language (1889).djvu]]
* [[Index:A short history of China; an account for the general reader of an ancient empire and people (IA sh00orthistoryofchboulrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:A short history of China; an account for the general reader of an ancient empire and people (IA shorthistoryofch00boulrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:A history of China from the earliest days down to the present (IA cu31924091024392).pdf]]
* [[Index:The unveiled East (IA unveiledeast00mcke).pdf]]
* [[Index:Letters from the Far East (IA lettersfromfarea00evan).pdf]]
* [[Index:China and the Far East (IA chinafareast00blak).pdf]]
* [[Index:China and the Far East, 1889-99 - contribution toward a bibliography (IA cu31924023967734).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/gpl_1856272/ The Morals of Confucius, 1691]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA chinesenovelstra00davirich).pdf|Chinese novels, translated from the originals]]
* [[Index:Notes on Chinese literature (IA notesonchineseli00wyli).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/chunsilinghistor00londiala/ Chun and Si-Ling]
* [[Index:The Far East (IA fareast00litt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Provinces of China, together with a history of the first year of H.I.M. Hsuan Tung, and an account of the government of China .. (IA provincesofchina00bruciala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Ceremonial Usages of the Chinese, B. C. 1121- Being an Abridgement of the Chow Le Classic (IA ceremonialusage00hugoog).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/civilizationofch00gileiala/ The Civilization of China]
* [[Index:A general view of Chinese civilization and of the relations of the West with China (IA generalviewofchi00laffrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sidelights on Chinese Life (sidelightsonchin00macg, 1907, MacGowan).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of Chinese literature - Giles.djvu]]
* [[Index:Notable women of modern China (IA notablewomenofmo00burt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The education of women in Japan (IA educationofwomen00burt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The education of girls in China (IA educationofgirls00lewi).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/chinesetheireduc00martiala/ The Chinese: their education, philosophy, and letters]
* [[Index:The lore of Cathay - or, The intellect of China (IA loreofcathayorin00martrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:China's only hope - an appeal (IA chinasonlyhopeap00zhan).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese Empire. A General &amp; Missionary Survey.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/educationofwomen00burtuoft/ The Education of Women in China]
* [[Index:Modern education in China (IA moderneducationi00tang).pdf]]
* [[Index:The educational system of China as recently reconstructed (IA educationalsyste00king).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese system of public education (IA chinesesystemop00kuop).pdf]]
* [[Index:Chinese education from the western viewpoint (IA chineseeducation00yens).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sihialanguage27lauf/ The Si-hia Language]
* [https://archive.org/details/chinahistoryofla01grayuoft/ China: a History of the Laws, Manners and Customs of the People, Volume 1]
* [[Index:China - a history of the laws, manners and customs of the people (IA chinahistoryofla02grayuoft).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:On &amp; off duty in Annam (IA onoffdutyinannam00vassiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/storieslegendsof00chiv/ Stories and Legends of Annam]
* [[Index:Vietnamese Song Book (U.S. Army Language School, 1961).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indo-China and its primitive people (IA indochinaitsprim00baud).pdf]]
* [[Index:The persecutions of Annam; a history of Christianity in Cochin China and Tonking (IA persecutionsofan00shoriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The French in Tonkin and South China (IA frenchintonkinso00cunn).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tonkin, or, France in the Far East (IA cu31924023040581).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tungking (IA cu31924088799386).pdf]]
* [[Index:France and Tongking; a narrative of the campaign of 1884 and the occupation of Further India (IA francetongkingna01scot 0).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warintongkingwh00staugoog/ The War in Tong-king]
* [[Index:The political ideas of modern Japan (IA politicalideasof00kawarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Studies in Vietnamese (Annamese) grammar (Emeneau).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Corean government- constitutional changes, July 1894 to October 1895. With an appendix on subsequent enactments to 30th June 1896 (IA cu31924023425063).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of that great and renowned monarchy of China. Wherein all the particular provinces are accurately described- as also the dispositions, manners, learning, lawes, militia (IA historyofthatgre00seme).pdf]]
* [[Index:Code of Gentoo Laws (1776, codeofgentoolaws00halh, Halhed).djvu]]
* [[Index:Ancient China, The Shoo King or the Historical Classic (Ancientchinashoo00confuoft, Medhurst, 1846).djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese Moral Maxims - Davis - 1823.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland 1864-65.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese Repository - Volume 01.djvu]]
* [[Index:An Ainu-English-Japanese dictionary (including a grammar of the Ainu language).djvu]]
* [[Index:How Many Independent Rice Vocabularies in Asia?.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Grammar of the Chinese Language (grammarofchinese00morr 1, Morrison, 1815).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ta Tsing Leu Lee; Being, The Fundamental Laws, and a Selections from the Supplementary Statutes, of the Penal Code of China.djvu]]
* [[Index:Dictionary of the Swatow dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese miscellany; consisting of original extracts from Chinese authors, in the native character; with translations and philological remarks (IA b22009450).pdf]]
* [[Index:Translations from the Original Chinese, with Notes (translationsfrom00morruoft, 1815).djvu]]

====Manuscripts====
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Nero A x (art. 3).pdf]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Nero D IV.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Julius A II.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Julius A VII.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Vitellius A XV.djvu]]

==== North Carolina ====
* [https://archive.org/details/communityservice00nort_0/ Community Service Week in North Carolina]
* [[Index:Citizens' reference book - a text and reference book for pupils and teachers in community schools for adult beginners (IA citizensreferenc1922morr).pdf]]
* [[Index:Annual report of North Carolina Council of Defense (serial) (IA annualreportofno11918nort).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rules and regulations of Mecklenburg County Home Guard (IA rulesregulations00north).pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Council of Defense - plan of organization (IA northcarolinacounort).pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Council of defense historical committee (IA northcarolinacou00no).pdf]]
* [[Index:North Carolina, a study in English colonial government (IA northcarolinas00rape).pdf]]
* [[Index:Reconstruction in North Carolina (IA cu31924028788664).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Reconstruction in North Carolina .. (IA reconstructionin00hami).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Official history of the 120th Infantry &quot;3rd North Carolina&quot; 30th Division, from August 5, 1917, to April 17, 1919 - canal sector, Ypres-Lys offensive, Somme offensive (IA officialhistoryowalk).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/accountofprovinc00wils/ An Account of the Province of Carolina in America]
* [https://archive.org/details/fundamentalconst00caro/ The Fundamental Constitutions of Carolina]
* [[Index:University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (IA govwilliamtryon00hayw).pdf]], Governor William Tryon, and his administration in the province of North Carolina
* [[Index:The Moravians in North Carolina - an authentic history (IA moraviansinnorth00reic).pdf]]
* [[Indes:History of Wachovia in North Carolina; the Unitas fratrum or Moravian church in North Carolina during a century and a half, 1752-1902 (IA historyofwachovi00clew).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the University of North Carolina (IA historyofunivers00batt).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the University of North Carolina (IA historyofunivers02batt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Laws of the University of North-Carolina (1800, lawsofuniversityuniv1799).djvu]]
* [[Index:Report of the Tax Commission to Governor Angus Wilton McLean, 1927.pdf]]
* [[Index:Regulations for the North Carolina National Guard, 1907.pdf]]
* [[Index:Reminiscences of Randolph County - Blair - 1890.djvu]]
* [[Index:West Chowan Baptist Messenger, Volume 1 - Issue 4.pdf]]
* [[Index:Revised Statutes of the State of North Carolina - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Session Laws of North Carolina, April, 1777.pdf]]
* [[Index:A bibliography of North Carolina, 1589-1956 - 1958.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Asheboro Courier, Volume IX, No. 26.pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Historical Review - Volume 1, Number 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:1751 A collection of all the public acts of Assembly, of the province of North-Carolina now in force and use.pdf]]
* [[Index:North Carolina Manual (1874).pdf]]
* [[Index:NC-Register-Volume-01-Issue-01.pdf]]

== Series/Periodicals/Journals ==
* [[Science (journal)]]
* [[The China Review]]
* [[Amazing Stories]]
* [[The Chinese Repository]]
* [[Federal Register]]
* [[Weird Tales]]
* [[The Journal of Religion]]
* [[Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society]]
* [[Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology]]
* [[Journal of Germanic Philology]]
* [[Journal of English and Germanic Philology]]
* [[Southern Historical Society Papers]]
* [[Archaeologia]]
* [[Portal:The Review of English Studies|The Review of English Studies]]
* [[Archaeological Journal]]
* [[National Geographic Magazine]]
* [[Classical World]]
* [[The International Socialist Review (1900-1918)]]
* [[Loeb Classical Library]]
* [[West Chowan Baptist Messenger]], in case more issues show up.
* [[The Courier]]
* [[North Carolina Historical Review]]

== Copyright books, bibliographies, etc. ==
* [[Catalog of Copyright Entries]]
* [[Index:A bibliography of North Carolina, 1589-1956 - 1958.djvu]]

== Authors I'm working on / might work on ==
* [[author:John Ronald Reuel Tolkien|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien]]
* [[author:Alexander Ross|Alexander Ross]]
* [[Author:George Lyman Kittredge|George Lyman Kittredge]]
* [[Author:Frank Johnson Goodnow|Frank Johnson Goodnow]]
* [[Author:Frank Frost Abbott|Frank Frost Abbott]]
* [[Author:John Bagnell Bury|John Bagnell Bury]]
* [[Author:Edwin Charles Clark|Edwin Charles Clark]]
* [[Author:James Muirhead (1831-1889)|James Muirhead]]
* [[Author:Edward Poste|Edward Poste]]
* [[Author:James Young Simpson|James Young Simpson]]
* [[Author:Francis Ellingwood Abbot|Francis Ellingwood Abbot]]

== WikiProjects ==

* [[Wikisource:WikiProject North Carolina|WikiProject North Carolina]]
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject Socialism|WikiProject Socialism]]
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject Chinese|WikiProject Chinese]]

== Other ==

* Created the [[Template:PD-Nauru]] for Nauruan works

== Other Accounts ==

* https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Reboot01

== Scripts and Tools and things ==

*[[/Sandbox/]]
*[[/common.js/]]
*[[/common.css/]]
*[[/CustomToolbarAdditions.js/]]

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Primary interests; Linguistics, Ancient Rome + Byzantine Studies, Latin, Africa, The Gambia, Law, North Carolina, the East Asian Cultural Sphere, South East Asia, Theology/Mythology/Religious Studies, Alchemy, Magic, Occult, etc., Calligraphy, Paleography, Political Science, Economics, Socialism/Anarchism/Marxism and etc. (List is not in any particular order)

Feel free to contact me on my user talk page, or at the WikiSource Discord, reboot01!

== Currently working on/Want to have time to work on ==
=== Projects ===
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject North Carolina/North Carolina Bibliography (1589-1956)|Sub-Project North Carolina Bibliography (1589-1956)]]

=== Indexes ===
* [[Index:Mother (IA mother00gorkrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Criterion - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Criterion - Volume 4.djvu]]
* [[Index:Lltreaties-ustbv001.pdf]]
* [[Index:The anatomy of melancholy - vvhat it is, vvith all the kindes, causes, symptomes, prognostickes, and severall cures of it - in three maine partitions with their seuerall sections (IA anatomyofmelanch00burt 2).pdf]]

====Reference Works, Dictionaries, Ecyclopedias, Language etc,====
* [[Index:Helps for student-writers (IA helpsforstudentw00hawk).pdf]]
* [[Index:Short stories in the making; a writers' and students' introduction to the technique and practical composition of short stories (IA shortstoriesinma00nea).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lectures on the elements of hieroglyphics and Egyptian antiquities (IA lecturesonelemen00spin).pdf]]
* [[Index:Account of Some Recent Discoveries in Hieroglyphical Literature and Egyptian Antiquities (IA dli.granth.37546).pdf]]
* [[Index:A grammar of the Samaritan language, with extracts and vocabulary (IA grammarofsamarit00nich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The dialect of the southern counties of Scotland - Murray - 1873.djvu]]
* [[Index:The place names of Elginshire (IA placenamesofelgi00mathrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of English balladry, and other studies (IA historyofenglish00brya).pdf]], 1919 reprint
* [[Index:A history of English balladry, and other studies (IA cu31924017774658).pdf]], 1913 print
* [[Index:A grammar of the Mandingo language- with vocabularies (IA grammarofmanding00macb).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern English - its growth and present use (IA modernenglishits00krap).pdf]]
* [[Index:The rise, progress, and present structure of the English language. (IA harrisonriseprog00harr).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishlanguagei0000geor/ The English Language in America, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishlanguagei0002geor/ The English Language in America, Volume 2]
* [[Index:The American language; an inquiry into the development of English in the United States (IA americanlanguage00menc 0).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [[Index:The American Language.djvu]]
* [[Index:American English (IA americanenglish00tuck).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishdialectg00wrig/ The English Dialect Grammar]
* [[Index:Phonology and grammar of modern west Frisian, with phonetic texts and glossary (IA phonologygrammar00sipm).pdf]]
* [[Index:A grammar of the Old Friesic language (IA grammarofoldfrie00cummrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:A grammar of the Old Friesic language (IA grammarofoldfrie00cummiala).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:The Frisian language and literature- a historical study (IA frisianlanguagel00hewerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A key into the language of America- or, An help to the language of the natives in that part of America, called New-England. - Together, with briefe observations of the customes (IA keyintolanguageo00will 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:File:A grammar of the Malagasy language, in the Ankova dialect (IA grammarofmalagas00grifrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the Maya hieroglyphs (IA introductiontost00morl 0).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/grammarofoscanum00buckuoft/ A Grammar of Oscan and Umbrian]
* [[Index:Pronunciation of Latin in the Augustan period (IA pronunciationofl00cambrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/childrensliterat0000curr/ Children's Literature]
* [[Index:Rudiments of Grammar for the English-Saxon Tongue (Elstob 1715).djvu]]
* [[Index:An Icelandic-English Dictionary - Cleasby &amp; Vigfusson - 1874.djvu]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume I, A-B.pdf]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume II, C-L.pdf]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume III, M-Z.pdf]]
* [[Index:Jewish Encyclopedia Volume 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:Catholic Encyclopedia, volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Pantographia - Fry - 1799.djvu]]
* [[Index:A practical grammar of the Hebrew language - Felsenthal - 1868.djvu]]
* [[Index:The grammar of English grammars.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Brasilian language and its agglutination.pdf]]
* [[Index:AnEssayTowardsARealCharacterAndAPhilosophicalLanguage.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Universal Alphabet, Grammar, and Language (universalalphabe00edmo, George Edmunds, 1856) (IA universalalphabe00edmo).pdf]]

====Theology, Spirituality, Occult, Mythology, old science and medicine etc.====
* [https://archive.org/details/orientalliteratu00muhiuoft/ The Dabistan]
* [https://archive.org/details/witchesstilllive00keny/ Witches Still Live]
* [[Index:Aradia or The Gospel of the witches.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29978518/ The mysteries and secrets of magic]
* [https://archive.org/details/demonologywitchc00brow/ Demonology and Witchcraft]
* [[Index:Witch, warlock, and magician; historical sketches of magic and witchcraft in England and Scotland (IA witchwarlockmagi00adamrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of witches; (IA bookofwitches00huef).pdf]]
* [[Index:La sorcière; the witch of the middle ages (IA lasorcierewitcho00michiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/dragonsdragonlor0000erne/ Dragons and Dragon Lore]
* [[Index:The evolution of the dragon (IA evolutionofdrago00smituoft).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/celticdragonmyth0000jrge/ The Celtic Dragon Myth]
* [https://archive.org/details/unicornamytholo00browgoog/ The Unicorn: A Mythological Investigation]
* [[Index:The religions of eastern Asia (IA religionsofeaste00underich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An account of the rise and progress of Mahometanism.djvu]]
* [[Index:Mahommed, &quot;the great Arabian,&quot; (IA mahommedthegreat00townrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The life of Mohammed; founder of the religion of Islam, and of the empire of the Saracens (IA lifeofmohammedfo00bushrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mohammedanism (IA mohammedanism00margiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mohammedanism, a pseudo christianity (IA mohammedanismpse00clyd).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christiaan Snouck Hurgronje - Mohammedanism (1916).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifereligionofma0000mene/ The life and religion of Mahommed]
* [[Index:The Columbian Congress of the Universalist Church - papers and addresses at the Congress, held as a section of the World's Congress Auxiliary of the Columbian Exposition, 1893 (IA columbiancongres00colu).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our word and work for missions; (IA ourwordworkformi00rugg).pdf]]
* [[Index:A handbook of Christian apologetics (IA handbookofchrist00garviala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Unitarianism in America; a history of its origin and development (IA cu31924029477852).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ordination of women to the pastorate in Baptist churches (IA ordinationofwome00hung).pdf]]
* [[Index:Women in the Apostolic church; a critical study of the evidence in the New Testament for the prominence of women in early Christianity (IA womeninapostolic00allwrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/theplaceofwomeni00unknuoft/ The Place of Women in the Church]
* [https://archive.org/details/womaninpulpit00will/ Women in the Pulpit]
* [https://archive.org/details/minhaj_al-talibin_english/ Minhaj Al-Talibin]
* [[Index:Development of Muslim theology, jurisprudence, and constitutional theory (IA cu31924029159691).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/traditionsofisla0000alfr/ The Traditions of Islam]
* [https://archive.org/details/muhammadinhadees0000abul/ Muhammad in the Hadees]
* [https://archive.org/details/amanualofthelead00tisduoft/ A manual of the leading Muhammadan objections to Christianity]
* [https://archive.org/details/theoriginalsourc00tisduoft/ The original sources of the Qur'ân]
* [[Index:The sword of Islam (IA swordofislam00woll).pdf]]
* [[Index:The spirit of Islam; or, The life and teachings of Mohammed (IA spiritofislamorl00alisrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Moslem seeker after God - showing Islam at its best in the life and teaching of al-Ghazali, mystic and theologian of the eleventh century (IA moslemseekeraft00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Moslem doctrine of God; an essay on the character and attributes of Allah according to the Koran and orthodox tradition (IA moslemdoctrineof00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Samaritan Pentateuch- the story of a survival among the sects (IA samaritanpentate00bart).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/samaritanstheirh00gast/ The Samaritans : their history, doctrines and literature]
* [[Index:The Samaritans, the earliest Jewish sect; their history, theology and literature (IA cu31924028585929).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/samaritanstheirt00thomuoft/ The Samaritans: their testimony to the religion of Israel]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29351765/ An Account of the Rise and Progress of Mahometanism]
* [[Index:The book of Yahweh (The Yahwist Bible) - fragments from the primitive document in seven early books of the Old Testament (IA cu31924029285661).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lecturesonmodern00bart/ Lectures on Modern Universalism]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofopinion00beec/ History of opinions on the scriptural doctrine of retribution]
* [https://archive.org/details/mysteryhidfromag00chau_0/ The Mystery Hid from Ages and Generations]
* [[Index:Sermons in vindication of Universalism...in reply to &quot;Lectures on Universalism&quot;; (IA sermonsinvindica00mors).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our new departure; (IA ournewdeparture00broo).pdf]]
* [[Index:Universalism as it is; or, Text book of modern universalism in America (IA universalismasit00hatfrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The plain guide to Universalism - designed to lead inquirers to the belief of that doctrine, and believers to the practice of it (IA plainguidetouniv00whitrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Handbook of Christian symbolism (IA handbookofchrist00auds).pdf]]
* [[Index:Bible manual. Introductory course on the Bible, for teachers training classes and Bible classes (IA biblemanualintro00kram).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofopinion00beec/ History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Future Retribution]
* [[Index:Over the river- (IA overriver00thayiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/originhistoryofd00thay_0/ The origin and history of the doctrine of endless punishment]
* [https://archive.org/details/theologyofuniver00thay/ Theology of Universalism]
* [[index:An examination of the doctrine of future retribution (IA examinationofdoc00ball).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christianity against infidelity.. (IA christianityagai00thay).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Bible class assistant, or Scriptural guide for Sunday schools.. (IA bibleclassassist00thay).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/elevensermonswhi00ball/ The eleven sermons which were preached]
* [[Index:The Christian universalist (IA christianunivers00mitc).pdf]]
* [[Index:Bible proofs of universal salvation.. (IA bibleproofsofuni00hans).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ancient history of universalism, from the time of the apostles to its condemnation in the fifth general council, A. D. 553 (IA ancienthistoryof00ball 1).pdf]], 2nd Edition, 1842
* [[Index:Universalism, the prevailing doctrine of the Christian church during its first five hundred years; with authorities and extracts (IA universalismpre00hans).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient history of universalism - from the time of the apostles, to the fifth general council - with an appendix, tracing the doctrine to the Reformation (IA ancienthistoryof00ball 0).pdf]], Boston Reprint, 1872
* [[Index:The divine government (IA divinegovernment00smit).pdf]], 5th Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/restorationofall00whit/ The restoration of all things]
* [https://archive.org/details/helptotheunlearn00trimuoft/ A help to the unlearned in the study of the Holy Scriptures]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 4.djvu]]
* [[Index:A critical exposition of the popular Jihád.pdf]]
* [[Index:Te Ika a Maui, or, New Zealand and its inhabitants - with the geology, natural history, productions, and climate of the country, etc. (IA teikamauiornewze1855rich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Polynesian Mythology by George Grey (polynesianmythol00greyuoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:Myths And Songs From The South Pacific (IA mythsandsongsfro013889mbp).pdf]]
* [[Index:Legends of Ma-ui-a demi god of Polynesia (IA legendsofmauiade00west).pdf]]
* [[Index:Creation myths of primitive America - in relation to the religious history and mental development of mankind (IA creationmyths00curtrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hawaiian legends of volcanoes (mythology) (IA hawaiianlegendso01west).pdf]]
* [[Index:Legends of gods and ghosts (Hawaiian mythology).djvu]]
* [[Index:The legends and myths of Hawaii - the fables and folk-lore of a strange people (IA legendsmythsofha00kala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Pele and Hiiaka; a myth from Hawaii (IA pelehiiakamythfr00emeriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hawaiian antiquities (Moolelo Hawaii) (IA hawaiianantiquit00malorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Unwritten literature of Hawaii; the sacred songs of the hula (IA cu31924026916415).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient Jewish proverbs (IA ancientjewishpro00cohe).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Babylonian Talmud- Tractate Berakot; translated into English for the first time, with introduction, commentary, glossary and indices (IA babyloniantalmud00coheiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sacred cosmogony; or, Primitive revelation demonstrated by the harmony of the facts of the Mosaic history of the creation, with the principles of general science (IA sacredcosmogonyo00sori).pdf]]
* [[Index:A short survey of the literature of rabbinical and mediæval Judaism (IA cu31924029285371).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Preaching of Islam, by T. W. Arnold; 1935.djvu]]
* [[Index:The religion of Islám (IA religionofislm00kleirich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/originsofdruzepe00hitt/ The origins of the Druze people and religion]
* [https://archive.org/details/essaysonsubjects01wrig/ Essays on subjects connected with the literature, popular superstitions, and history of England in the Middle Ages, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/essaysonsubjects02wrig/ Essays on subjects connected with the literature, popular superstitions, and history of England in the Middle Ages, Volume 2]
* [[Index:A contribution to the comparative study of the medieval visions of heaven and hell (IA contributiontoco01beck).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demon possession and allied themes; being an inductive study of phenomena of our own times (IA demonpossessiona00neviiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Devil Worship.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/heavenhellincomp0000kohl/ Heaven and hell in comparative religion]
* [https://archive.org/details/diabolologyperso1890jewe/ Diabolology]
* [[Index:The Book of the Goetia (Mathers-Crowley, 1904).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Key of Solomon the king (Clavicula Salomonis) (IA b24884431).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lesserkeyofsolom00dela/ The Lesser Key of Solomon]
* [[Index:Irish witchcraft and demonology (IA irishwitchcraftd00seymrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demonology and devil-lore (IA demonologydevill00conw).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demonology and devil-lore (IA demonologydevill00conw2).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/storyofworldswor00dobbuoft/ Story of the World's Worship]
* [https://archive.org/details/moonlore00harl/ Moon Lore]
* [[Index:Witch-Cult in Western Europe (1921).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/womansshareinpri00maso/ Woman's Share in Primitive Culture]
* [[Index:Germanic origins (IA germanicorigins00gumm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Woman, church and state- a historical account of the status of woman through the Christian ages- with reminiscences of matriarchate - (IA womanchurchstate00gagerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Golden Bough (1922).djvu]]
* [[Index:Myths and myth-makers- old tales and superstitions interpreted by comparative mythology (IA mythsandmythmake00fiskiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Researches in prehistoric and protohistoric comparative philology, mythology, and archæology, in connection with the origin of culture in America and the Accad or Sumerian families (IA researchesinpreh00clar).pdf]]
* [[Index:The material culture and social institutions of the simpler peoples; an essay in correlation (IA materialcultures00hobhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the science of comparative mythology and folklore (IA cu31924029075328).pdf]]
* [[Index:Fecundity, fertility, sterility, and allied topics (IA cu31924030410801).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Fecundity, fertility, sterility and allied topics (IA b21778176).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:The Catholic's ready answer; a popular vindication of Christian beliefs and practices against the attacks of modern criticism (IA catholicsreadyan00hill).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/commentaryonbibl00peak/ A commentary on the Bible]
* [[Index:The Bible and astronomy; (IA bibleastronomy00kurt).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sunloreofallages00olco/ Sun Lore of All Ages]
* [[Index:An account of the life and writings of S. Irenæus (IA accountoflifewri00beav).pdf]]
* [[Index:Heresy and Chistian doctrine (IA heresychistiando00pres).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/observationsonhe0000whit/ Observations on heresy and orthodoxy]
* [https://archive.org/details/historicalviewof00mcfa/ An historical view of heresies and vindication of the primitive fait]
* [[Index:The gnostic heresies of the first and second centuries (IA gnosticheresieso00mansrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Aryan sun-myths the origin of religions; (IA aryansunmythsori00titcrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mosaicall philosophy - grounded upon the essentiall truth or eternal sapience (IA mosaicallphiloso00flud).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of four-footed beasts and serpents. (IA historyoffourfoo00tops).pdf]]
* [[Index:The historie of foure-footed beastes (1607).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/immortalityunsee0000unse/ Immortality and the Unseen World]
* [[Index:Angelology.. (IA angelology00clay).pdf]]
* [[Index:Angelology-.. (IA angelology00mcca).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA b30330610).pdf]], Blagraves astrological practice of physick
* [[Index:Anatomical texts of the earlier middle ages; a study in the transmission of culture (1927).djvu]]
* [[Index:Books from the Biodiversity Heritage Library (IA mobot31753000703782).pdf]], Paradisi in sole paradisus terrestris
* [[Index:The philosophy of witchcraft (IA philosophyofwitc00mitciala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA b30529906).pdf]], The compleat wizzard
* [[Index:A commentary on the Holy Bible (1909) (IA commentaryonholy01dumm).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Christian Book of concord, or, Symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church; comprising the three chief symbols, the unaltered Augsburg confession, the Apology (IA christianbookofc00luth).pdf]], 1st edition, 1851
* [[Index:The Christian Book of concord = or, Symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church - comprising the three chief symbols, the unaltered Augsburg confession, the Apology (IA christianbookofc00henk).pdf]], 2nd edition 1854
* [[Index:Books from the Library of Congress (IA theologicalpropd03scha).pdf]], Theological propædeutic; a general introduction to the study of theology
* [[Index:A Complete System of Christian Theology (Wakefield, 1869, completesystemof0000wake).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Queen of Sheba &amp; her only son Menyelek (IA queenofshebahero00budgrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Some answered questions; collected and tr. from the Persian of 'Abdu'l-Baha, by Laura Clifford Barney (IA someansweredques00abdurich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hujajul Beheyyeh (The Behai proofs) (IA hujajulbeheyyeht00abua).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sevenvalleysreve00bah/ The Seven Valleys]
* [[Index:Tablet of tarazat, Tablet of the world, Words of Paradise, Tablet of Tajalleyat, The glad tidings; (IA tabletoftarazatt00baharich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/promulgationofun01abdu/ The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/promulgationofun0002abdu/ The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Volume 2]
* [[Index:The Moslem doctrine of God; an essay on the character and attributes of Allah according to the Koran and orthodox tradition (IA moslemdoctrineof00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:Development of Muslim theology, jurisprudence, and constitutional theory (IA cu31924029159691).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Samaritans, the earliest Jewish sect; their history, theology and literature (IA cu31924028585929).pdf]]
* [[Index:The theology and ethics of the Hebrews (IA theologyethicsof00duffiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/thesixdaysofcrea00lewsuoft/ The Six Days of Creation]
* [[Index:The chemical history of the six days of creation (IA cu31924029284399).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/patriarchalageor00smituoft/ The patriarchal age; or, The history and religion of mankind]
* [[Index:The patriarchal age; (IA patriarchalage00phil).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/immortalityunsee0000unse/ Immortality and the unseen world; a study in Old Testament religion]
* [[Index:The unity of the book of Genesis (IA unityofbookofge00gree).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Book of Jubilees, translated from the Ethiopic (IA cu31924076045669).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Jubilees. Robert Henry Charles. 1902 (IA bookofjubileesor00char).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Book of Jubilees. Robert Charles, George Box. 1917 (IA bookofjubileesor01char).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Exodus, with introduction and notes (IA bookofexoduswith00mcnerich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bookofgenesisnot00drivuoft/ The Book of Genesis; with introduction and notes by S.R. Driver]
* [[Index:The legends of Genesis (IA legendsofgenesis00gunk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Genesis in the light of modern knowledge (IA bookofgenesisinl01worc).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/worldbeforeabrah00mitcuoft/ The World before Abraham, according to Genesis I-XI]
* [[Index:The creation - a commentary on the first five chapters of the book of Genesis (IA creationcommenta00luth).pdf]]
* [[Index:The genesis of Genesis; (IA genesisofgenesis00bacorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early traditions of Genesis (IA earlytraditionso00gordrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/teachingvaluesof00stri/ Teaching values of the legends and myths of Genesis]]
* [[Index:The composition of the book of Genesis (IA compositionofbo00frip).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes on the book of Genesis (IA notesonbookofgen00mackrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Discourses on the book of Genesis (IA discoursesonbook00henriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indications of the first book of Moses, called Genesis (IA indicationsoffir00latc).pdf]]
* [[Index:Outline studies in Genesis (IA outlinestudiesin00russ).pdf]]
* [[Index:Studies on the book of Genesis (IA studiesonbookof00prat).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early narratives of Genesis; a brief introduction to the study of Genesis I-XI (IA earlynarrativeso00rylerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes, critical and explanatory, on the book of Genesis ... (IA notescriticalexp00unse).pdf]]
* [[Index:Creation and the fall; a defence and exposition of the first three chapters of Genesis (IA creationfalldefe00macd).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/expositionofthre00glea/ An exposition of the three first chapters of Genesis, explained and improved]
* [[Index:The historical value of the first eleven chapters of Genesis; with some discussion of the new criticism (IA historicalvalueo00beac).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mosaic cosmogony. Literal translation of first chapter of Genesis, with annotations and rationalia (IA cu31924031786928).pdf]]
* [[Index:The first chapter of Genesis as the rock foundation for science and religion (IA cu31924031224789).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/notesobservation00scot/ Notes and observations upon the three first chapters of Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/acriticalandexe01murpgoog/ A critical and exegetical commentary on the book of Genesis, 1st Edition, Edinburgh, 1863]
* [[Index:Genesis I-II- (IA genesisiii00grot).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1880
* [[Index:Genesis I-II- an essay on the Bible narrative of creation (IA genesisiiiessayo01grot).pdf]], 2nd Edition, 1881
* [[Index:The tabernacle - or the Gospel according to Moses (IA tabernacleorgosp00junk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Tabernacle; its history and structure (IA tabernacleitshis00cald).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/primevalrevelati00jone/ Primeval Revelation: Studies in Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/messagesformorni00trum/ Messages for the Morning Watch: Devotional Studies in Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/beginningsofhebr00cole/ The Beginnings of the Hebrew People: Studies in the Book of Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/genesisorfirstbo0000lang/ Genesis, or, the first book of Moses, together with a general theological and homiletical introduction to the Old Testament]
* [[Index:The myths of Israel, the ancient book of Genesis with analysis and explanation of its composition (IA mythsofisraelanc00fisk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ages before Moses- a series of lectures on the book of Genesis (IA cu31924029289737).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Jewish Interpretation of the Book of Genesis (Morgenstern, 1919, jewishinterpreta00morg).pdf]]
* [[Index:A commentary upon the first book of Moses called Genesis (IA cuponfi00patr).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [[Index:A commentary upon the first book of Moses, called Genesis (IA comfi00patr).pdf]], 2nd edition, missing pages
* [[Index:A companion to the book of Genesis (IA companiontobook00turn).pdf]]
* [[Index:The law of Moses (IA lawofmoses00navi).pdf]]
* The covenant of nature made with Adam described {{esl|https://archive.org/details/covenantofnature00pync/}}
* [[Index:The history and philosophy of Judaism (IA historyphilosoph00shawiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Intermediate types among primitive folk- a study in social evolution (IA cu31924021843986).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christianity and sex problems (IA cu31924021843259).pdf]]
* [[Index:Source book for social origins; ethnological materials, psychological standpoint, classified and annotated bibliographies for the interpretation of savage society (IA sourcebookforsoc00thomiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sex and society; studies in the social psychology of sex (IA sexsocietystudie00thom).pdf]]
* [[Index:Man and woman (electronic resource) - a study of human secondary sexual characters (IA b20410761).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to systematic philosophy (IA introductiontosy00marv).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to philosophy (IA introductiontoph00flet).pdf]]
* [[Index:Book of Mormon (1830, bookofmormonacco1830smit).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Holy scriptures (IA holyscriptures00smit).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indago astrologica- or a brief and modest enquiry into some principal points of astrology (IA b30333519).pdf]]
* [[Index:An encyclopaedia of occultism a compendium of information on the occult sciences, occult personalities, psychic science, magic, demonology, spiritism and mysticism.djvu]]
* [[Index:The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu]]
* [[Index:Summa Theologica (2nd rev. ed.) - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The abridgment of Christian divinitie.djvu]]
* [[Index:Alcoran of Mahomet 1649.djvu]]
* [[Index:A dictionary of Islam.djvu]]
* [[Index:Thomas Patrick Hughes - Notes on Muhammadanism - 2ed. (1877).djvu]]
* [[Index:The discouerie of witchcraft (1584) (IA b30337367).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Mirror of Alchimy (1597, mirrorofalchimy00baco).djvu]]
* [[Index:The history of Witchcraft and demonology.djvu]]
* [[Index:Three Books of Occult Philosophy (De Occulta Philosophia) (1651).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Magus, or Celestial Intelligencer - Barrett - 1801.djvu]]
* [[Index:St Augustine Of the Citie of God.pdf]]
* [[Index:1582 Rhemes New Testament.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Holy Bible (LSV).pdf]]
* [[Index:Batman upon Bartolome.djvu]]
* [[Index:An analysis of the Egyptian mythology- to which is subjoined, a critical examination of the remains of Egyptian chronology (IA b29350074).pdf]]
* [[Index:Phenomenology of Mind vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Phenomenology of Mind vol 2.djvu]]

====Economic/Social studies/History/Law====
* [[Index:Problems of readjustment after the war (IA problemsofreadju00newy).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of government organization and management (IA principlesofgove00clev).pdf]]
* [[Index:The new spirit of the new army; a message to the &quot;service flag&quot; homes (IA newspiritofnewar00odel).pdf]]
* [[Index:The church in America; a study of the present condition and future prospects of American Protestantism (IA churchinamericas01brow).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/middletownstudyi0000lynd/ Middletown: a study in American culture]
* [[Index:Organized self-government (IA organizedselfgov00daws).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/jewishselfgovern00fink/ Jewish self-government in the middle ages]
* [https://archive.org/details/citiesinevolutio00gedduoft/ Cities in Evolution]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanpublicli0000unse/ The American Public Library and the Diffusion of Knowledge]
* [[Index:Co-operative housekeeping; how not to do it and how to do it (IA cooperativehouse00peir).pdf]]
* [[Index:Akbar and the rise of the Mughal empire; (IA akbarriseofmugha00mallrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Akbar, emperor of India, a picture of life and customs from the sixteenth century (IA akbaremperorofin00garb).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ayeen Akbery; or, The Institutes of the Emperor Akber (IA ayeenakberyorins02abua).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ayeen Akbery; or, The Institutes of the Emperor Akber (IA ayeenakberyorins01abua).pdf]]
* [[Index:Local government in Francia and England- a comparison of the local administration and jurisdiction of the Carolingian empire with that of the West Saxon kingdom (IA localgovernmenti00camhiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The making of the English constitution, 449-1485 (IA makingofenglishc00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The story of the shire, being the lore, history and evolution of English county institutions (IA storyofshirebein00hack).pdf]]
* [[Index:The polity of the ancient Hebrews (IA polityofancienth00sulzrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Am ha-aretz - the ancient Hebrew parliament, a chapter in the constitutional history of ancient Israel (IA cu31924089135754).pdf]], 2nd Printing, 1910
* [[Index:The Am ha-aretz, the ancient Hebrew parliament, a chapter in the constitutional history of ancient Israel (IA amhaaretzancient00sulziala).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/revolutionbyreas0000stra/ Revolution by Reason, an account of the financial proposals submitted by Oswald Mosley at the 33d Independent Labour Party Conference]
* [[Index:The story of rapid transit (IA storyofrapidtran00willrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Interborough rapid transit; the New York subway, its construction and equipment (IA interboroughrapi00interich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ethnologyofakamb00hobluoft/ Ethnology of A-Kamba and other East African Tribes]
* [https://archive.org/details/africapastpresen00mois/ Africa: Past and Present]
* [https://archive.org/details/soulofbantusympa00will_0/ The Soul of the Bantu]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofislando00copl/ A History of the Island of Madagascar]
* [https://archive.org/details/madagascarhistor01oliv/ Madagascar, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/madagascarhistor02oliv/ Madagascar, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/b31516993/ The Antananarivo annual and Madagascar magazine]
* [[Index:The history of Dahomy, an inland kingdom of Africa (IA b28764808).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Visigothic Code.djvu]]
* [[Index:A manual of elementary law (IA cu31924018811376).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/countrytownstudy00andeuoft/ The Country Town]
* [[Index:Principles of American state administration, by John Mabry Mathews. (IA principlesofamer00math).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lectures on Slavonic law, being the Ilchester lectures for the year 1900; (IA cu31924022021566).pdf]]
* [[index:Ideals of America; (IA idealsofamerica00city).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/urbancommunityse00burgrich/ The Urban Community]
* [https://archive.org/details/chicagoexperimen00smit/ Chicago, an Experiment in Social Science Research]
* [https://archive.org/details/howesneweracivic00howe/ Howe's new era civics]
* [https://archive.org/details/safeguardingamer00atwoiala Safeguarding american ideals]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanpolitica00merriala/ American political ideas; studies in the development of American political thought 1865-1917]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanthoughtf00rilerich/ American thought: from Puritanism to pragmatism]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924007488954/ The foundations of American foreign policy]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924031446465/ Liberty, Union and Democracy, The National Ideas of America]
* [https://archive.org/details/nationalgovernme00kimbrich/ The national government of the United States]
* [https://archive.org/details/sociallawsagenci00unse/ Social laws and agencies of North Carolina]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanidealsot0000unse/ American ideals, and other essays, social and political]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanismwhati00hillrich/ Americanism, what it is]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanizationp00talb/ Americanization]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanismwhati00hill/ Americanism, what it is]
* [https://archive.org/details/ourdualgovernmen00broo/ Our dual government, studies in Americanism for young people]
* [https://archive.org/details/everydayamerican00canbrich/ Everyday Americans]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofamerican00hopk/ A manual of American ideas]
* [https://archive.org/details/americandemocrac01form/ The American democracy, 1920]
* [https://archive.org/details/americandemocrac00form/ The American Democracy, 1921, 2nd Printing]
* [https://archive.org/details/citizensguideorm00gibs/ The citizens' guide]
* [[Index:Community buildings for industrial towns (IA communitybuildin00comm).pdf]]
* [[index:Rural and small community recreation. Suggestions for utilizing the resources of rural communities; (IA ruralsmallcommun00commrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A course in citizenship and patriotism (IA courseincitizens00cabo).pdf]]
* [[Index:A selected bibliography and syllabus of the history of the South, 1584-1876 (IA selectedbibliogr00boydrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The demonstration work; Dr. Seaman A. Knapp's contribution to civilization (IA demonstrationwor00martrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Party organization and machinery (IA partyorgmachiner00macy).pdf]]
* [[Index:A decade of Negro extension work, 1914-1924 (IA decadeofnegroext72mart).pdf]]
* [[Index:Educational resources of village and rural communities (IA educationalresou00hart).pdf]]
* [[Index:The validity of American ideals (IA validityofameric01math).pdf]]
* [[Index:The church and the community (IA cu31924014043362).pdf]]
* [[Index:Social ideals of a free church (IA socialidealsoffr00forbiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christian Americanization; a task for the churches (IA brookschristiana00broo).pdf]]
* [[Index:America via the neighborhood (IA americavianeighb00danirich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our neighborhood; good citizenship in rural communities (IA cu31924080075959).pdf]]
* [[Index:The free city; a book of neighborhood (IA freecitybookofne00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Neighborhood entertainments (IA cu31924014493542).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rural community organization (IA ruralcommunityor00haye).pdf]]
* [[Index:A community center; what it is and how to organize it (IA communitycenterw00jack).pdf]]
* [[Index:A community church; the story of a minister's experience which led him from the church militant to the church democratic (IA communitychurchs00jackrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Community organization (IA communityorganiz00hartiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/socialservicefor00ward_0/ Social Services for Young People]
* [[Index:Pupil self-government, its theory and practice (IA pupilselfgovernm00cron).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/communityorganiz00stei/ Community Organization: A Study of its Current Theory and Practice]
* [[Index:The little democracy, a text-book on community organization (IA littledemocracyt00clar).pdf]]
* [[Index:The country church and community cooperation (IA countrychurchcom00israrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Local and central government; a comparative study of England, France, Prussia, and the United States (IA localcentralgove00ashl).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal administration in Germany as seen in the government of a typical Prussian city, Halle a-S (IA municipaladminis00jamerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of Prussian administration (IA principlesofprus00jamerich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/governmentadmini0000blac/ The Government and Administration of Germany]
* [[Index:The government of Wyoming - the history, constitution and administration of affairs (IA governmentofwyom00heba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The principles of the administrative law of the United States (IA principlesofadmi00good).pdf]]
* [[Index:Statesman's handbook for Russia (IA statesmanshandbo00russrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warrussiangovern0000unse/ The war and the Russian government. The central government]
* [[Index:Modern customs and ancient laws of Russia; being the Ilchester lectures for 1889-90; (IA cu31924014085983).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lancasteryorkcen01rams/ Lancaster and York, Volume 1]
* [[Index:Lancaster and York; a century of English history (A.D. 1399-1485) (IA cu31924088011436).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:The houses of Lancaster and York, with the conquest and loss of France; (IA housesoflancaste01gair).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warsofroses00mowauoft/ The Wars of the Roses]
* [[Index:Wales and the wars of the Roses (IA waleswarsofroses00evanrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:English towns in the wars of the Roses (IA englishtownsinwa00wins).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal government in Ireland - medieval &amp; modern (IA municipalgovernm00webbrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/mindfaceofbolshe0000unse/ The Mind and Face of Bolshevism]
* [[Index:Men of the old stone age, their environment, life and art (IA menofoldstoneage00osborich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The English in the middle ages; from the Norman usurpation to the days of the Stuarts. Their mode of life, dress, arms, occupations, and amusements. As illustrated in the British Museum (IA englishinmiddlea00hodg).pdf]]
* [[Index:Arms and armour in antiquity and the middle ages - also a descriptive notice of modern weapons (IA b24865990).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/armourweapons00ffouuoft/ Armour &amp; Weapons]
* [https://archive.org/details/treatiseonancien00grosrich/ A treatise on ancient armour and weapons]
* [[Index:An illustrated history of arms and armour from the earliest period to the present time (IA illustratedhisto00demmrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Germany in the later Middle Ages, 1200-1500 (IA germanyinlatermi00stub).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ayliffejuriscanonici/ Parergon Juris Canonici Anglicani]
* [[Index:The Effects of Civilisation on the People in European States.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/developmentofeur0000smit/ The Development of European Law]
* [[Index:The Art of War in the Middle Ages (Chadwick, 1885, artofwarinmiddle00omanuoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:The History of the Isle of Man (1780, historyofisleofm00dubl).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 1 (1101-1377).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 2 (1377-1509).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 3 (1509-47).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 4, Part 1 (1547-84).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 4, Part 2 (1586-1625).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 5 (1628-80).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 6 (1685-94).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 7 (1695-1701).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 8 (1702-7).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 9 (1708-13).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm (Alphabetical Index).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm (Chronological Index).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Laws and Acts of Parliament of Scotland.djvu]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the middle ages (375-814) (IA introductiontost00emer).pdf]]
* [[Index:Villainage in England; essays in English mediaeval history (IA cu31924024908356).pdf]]
* [[Index:Law and politics in the middle ages, with a synoptic table of sources (IA cu31924030432532).pdf]]
* [[Index:De republica Anglorum. The maner of gouernement or policie of the realme of England, compiled by the honorable sir Thomas Smyth .. (IA ita-bnc-mag-00002562-001).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Lexicon of Medieval Nordic Law (OBP.0188, 2020).pdf]]
* [[Index:Runic and heroic poems of the old Teutonic peoples.djvu]]
* [[Index:The riddles of the Exeter book (IA riddlesofexeterb00tupp).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Law of the Westgoths - tr. Bergin - 1906.djvu]]
* [[Index:Laws of the Earliest English Kings.djvu]]
* [[Index:The sources of the law of England - an historical introduction to the study of English law (IA cu31924021687227).pdf]]
* [[Index:George Philips, Lex parliamentaria (1st ed, 1690).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of economics (IA historyofeconomi00macliala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indian currency and finance (IA indiancurrencyfi00keynuoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:An inquiry into the various systems of political economy- their advantages and disadvantages- and the theory most favourable to the increase of national wealth (IA inquiryintovario00gani).pdf]]
* [[Index:National system of political economy (IA nationalsystemof00list).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of political economy; or, Elementary view of the manner in which the wealth of nations is produced, increased, distributed, and consumed (IA introductiontost00boilrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Theory of Moral Sentiments.pdf]]
* [[Index:Treatise on Probability, Keynes, 1921.djvu]]
* [[Index:Monasticon Anglicanum, or, The history of the ancient abbies, and other monasteries, hospitals, cathedral and collegiate churches in England and Wales. With divers French, Irish (IA monasticonanglic00dugd).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of Gothic architecture (IA introductiontost00park 9).pdf]], 1st edition
* [[Index:Architecture; an introduction to the history and theory of the art of building (IA architectureintr00leth 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Race distinctions in American Law (IA racedistinctions00stepiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The law of city planning and zoning (IA lawofcityplannin00williala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The improvement of towns and cities - or, The practical basis of civic aesthetics (IA improvementoftow00robi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern civic art - or, The city made beautiful (IA moderncivicartor00robi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:A decade of civic development (IA decadeofcivicdev00zueb).pdf]]
* [[Index:City planning, with special reference to the planning of streets and lots (IA cu31924064909660).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern city planning and maintenance (IA moderncityplanni00koes).pdf]]
* [[Index:City planning; a series of papers presenting the essential elements of a city plan (IA cityplanningseri00noleiala).pdf]]

=====Labor, Socialism, Anarchism, Communist, Feminism, LGBTQ+=====
* [[Index:Americanism; a world menace (IA americanismworld00coly).pdf]]
* [[Index:Emma Goldman - The Social Significance of the Modern Drama - 1914.djvu]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx and modern socialism (IA karlmarxmodernso00salt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx; his life and work (IA cu31924002310864).pdf]], John Spargo, 1912
* [https://archive.org/details/karlmarxhislifew00rhle/ Karl Marx; his life and work, Otto Ruhle, 1929]
* [[Index:The old freedom (IA oldfreedom00neilrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A History of Socialism.pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/marxianeconomics00unte/ Marxian Economics]
* [https://archive.org/details/mindfaceofbolshe0000unse/ The Mind and Face of Bolshevism]
* [[Index:The revolt of democracy (IA revoltofdemocrac00wallrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/socialismofchris00bierrich/ Socialism of Christ]
* [[Index:German Social Democracy - Six Lectures by Bertrand Russell.djvu]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx - Wage Labor and Capital - tr. Harriet E. Lothrop (1902).djvu]]
* [[Index:The ego and his own (IA egohisown00stiriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ten blind leaders of the blind - by Arthur M. Lewis (IA tenblindleaderso00lewirich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Egoists, a book of supermen- (IA egoistsbookofsu00hune).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/philosophyofegoi00walk/ The Philosophy of Egoism]
* [[Index:Anarchism (Eltzbacher, 1908 English translation).djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Socialist Review (1900-1918), Vol. 1, Issue 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Jungle (1906).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anarchy and Anarchists (Schaack, 1889).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anarchism; a criticism and history of the anarchist theory (IA anarchismcritici00zenkiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Anarchism and socialism (IA anarchismsociali00plek).pdf]]
* [[Index:Trade unionism in the United States (IA cu31924013988195).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of trade unionism in the United States (IA historyoftradeun00perliala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/theoryoflabormov0000seli/ A Theory of the Labor Movement]
* [[Index:Communism in America; (IA communisminameri00jamerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA communistsocieties00nordrich).pdf]], The Communistic Societies of the United States
* [https://archive.org/details/leftwingunionism/ Left Wing Unionism]
* [[Index:Jay Lovestone - Blood and Steel (1923)).djvu]]
* ''History of American Socialisms'' {{esl|https://archive.org/details/historyofamerica00innoye/page/14/mode/2up}}
* [[Index:On labour, its wrongful claims and rightful dues, its actual present and possible future (IA onlabouritswrong00thor).pdf]]
* [[Index:Voluntary socialism; a sketch (IA voluntarysociali00tandrich).pdf]], 2nd edition
* [https://archive.org/details/voluntarysocial01tandgoog/ Voluntary Socialism, 1st Edition]
* [[Index:Arkady Joseph Sack - The Birth of the Russian Democracy (1918).djvu]]
* [[Index:The struggle for existence (IA struggleforexist00millrich).pdf]], First Edition
* [[Index:Direct action (IA directaction00mell).pdf]]

=====Racism, Antisemitism, National Socialism, KKK, Nationalism, Right, etc.=====
* [[Index:The revolt against civilization; the menace of the under man (IA cu31924016895975).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/reddragonblacksh00phil/ The &quot;Red&quot; Dragon and the Black Shirts]
* [https://archive.org/details/pragmaticrevolti00elli/ The pragmatic revolt in politics]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolinipopecom1501mcca/ Mussolini and the Pope]
* [https://archive.org/details/popeormussolini0000hear/ Pope or Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofbenitomuss00sarf/ The Life of Benito Mussolini, 6th Printing, UK Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofbenitomuss0000mang/ The Life of Benito Mussolini, 5th Printing, US Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/isantichristatha0000smit/ Is the Antichrist at hand? What of Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/historicalcauses00trevuoft/ The historical causes of the present state of affairs in Italy]
* [[Index:L. W. - Fascism, Its History and Significance (1924).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/makingfasciststa0000herb/ Making the Fascist State]
* [https://archive.org/details/the-need-for-fascism-in-great-britain The Need for Fascism in Great Britain]
* [https://archive.org/details/fascistdictators0001gaet/ The Fascist Dictatorship in Italy]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolininewital0000alex/ Mussolini and the New Italy]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolini0000unse/ Mussolini as Revealed in His Political Speeches]
* [[Index:Behold Our New Empire Mussolini (IA BeholdOurNewEmpireMussolini).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/1928UniversalAspectsOfFascism/ The Universal Aspects of Fascism, 1st Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/dli.ernet.5084/ The Universal Aspects of Fascism, 2nd Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/italytoday0000foxf/ Italy To-day]
* [https://archive.org/details/thetheoryofminda00gentuoft/ The Theory of Mind as a Pure Act]
* [https://archive.org/details/blackmagic00kenn/ Black Magic]
* [https://archive.org/details/pedigreeoffascis0000alin/ The Pedigree of Fascism]
* [https://archive.org/details/strenuousitalyso00gayh/ Strenuous Italy]
* [[Index:Sociology for the South - or, The failure of free society (IA sociologyforsout00fitz).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cannibals all! or, Slaves without masters (IA cannibalsallorsl00fitz).pdf]]
* [[Index:Negro-Mania- Being an Examination of the Falsely Assumed Equality of the Various Races of Men (IA DKC0100).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/outlawsdiary01tormuoft An Outlaw's Diary, Volume 1: Revolution]
* [https://archive.org/details/outlawsdiary02tormuoft An Outlaw's Diary, Volume 2: The Commune]
* [[Index:Meccania, the super-state (IA meccaniasupersta00greg).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/pangermanleague10000wert/ The Pan-German League]
* [[Index:The pan-Germanic doctrine; being a study of German political aims and aspirations (IA pangermanicdoctr00harrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Pan-germanism, its plans for German expansion in the world (IA pangermanismitsp00andlrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Antisemitism, its history and causes (IA antisemitismitsh00lazaiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/thenegroabeastorintheimageofgod/ &quot;The Negro A Beast&quot;, Or &quot;In The Image Of God&quot;]
* [https://archive.org/details/americannegrodependentdefectivedelinquent/ The American Negro]
* [https://archive.org/details/negroamenacetoamericancivilization/ The Negro]
* [https://archive.org/details/negrosouthernersproblem/ The Negro: The Southernor's Problem]
* [https://archive.org/details/negrocriminality_202001/ Negro Criminality]
* [https://archive.org/details/sexualcrimesamongsouthernnegroes/ Sexual Crimes among the Southern Negroes]
* [https://archive.org/details/whitesupremacyandnegrosubordination/ White Supremacy and Negro Subordination]
* [https://archive.org/details/slaveryasitrela00priegoog/ Slavery, as it Relates to the Negro]
* [[Index:Bible Defence of Slavery.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/TheRiddleOfTheJewsSuccess/ The Riddle of the Jews Success]
* [https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.38804/ Racial Elements Of European History]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 4.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/italyundermussol0000unse/ Italy under Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/romeordeathstory00beal/ Rome or Death! The Story of Fascism]
* [https://archive.org/details/odon-por.-fascism-1923_202107/ Fascism, Odon Por]
* [https://archive.org/details/fascistmovementi00gorguoft/ The Fascist Movement in Italian Life]
* [[Index:My Autobiography (1928) - by Benito Mussolini.pdf]]
* [[Index:The ravings of a renegade ; being the War essays of Houston Stewart Chamberlain (IA ravingsofrenegad00chamrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/foundationsofnin01cham/ The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century], Volume 1
* [https://archive.org/details/foundationsofnin02cham/ The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century], Volume 2
* [[Index:Decline of the West (Volume 1).djvu]]
* [[Index:Decline of the West (Volume 2).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Decline of the West.pdf]], combined Volume, 1932 edition
* [[Index:The inequality of human races (1915).djvu]]
* [[Index:The moral and intellectual diversity of races - with particular reference to their respective influence in the civil and political history of mankind (IA bub gb uRvNQHqLj0kC).pdf]]
* [[Index:The passing of the great race; or, The racial basis of European history (IA passingofgreatra01gran).pdf]], 4th Edition
* [[Index:The passing of the great race; or, The racial basis of European history (IA cu31924029874330).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Ku Klux Klan (H.H. Wilson Reference Shelf) (IA kukluxklan00john).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Klan unmasked, (IA klanunmasked00simm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Catalogue of Official Robes and Banners - Knights of the Ku Klux Klan Incorporated, Atlanta, Georgia (1925) - Catalogueofoffic00kukl.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Ku Klux klan- a study of the American mind (IA kukluxklanastudy00meck).pdf]]
* [[Index:Papers read at the meeting of Grand dragons, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at their first- annual meet (IA papersreadatmeet01kukl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/authentichistor00davi/ Authentic history, Ku Klux Klan, 1865-1877]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924083530117/ The Ku Klux Klan or Invisible Empire]

==== Ancient Rome/Byzantine Studies/Latin/Classics ====
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924028520728/ Syria as a Roman Province]
* [https://archive.org/details/spainunderromane00bouc/ Spain under the Roman Empire]
* [[Index:The Gracchi, Marius, and Sulla (IA cu31924074596879).pdf]]
* [[Index:Seven Roman statesmen of the later republic- The Gracchi. Sulla. Crassus. Cato. Pompey. Caesar (IA sevenromanstates00oman).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romaneducationfr0000gwyn_n9h9/ Roman education from Cicero to Quintilian]
* [[Index:Manual of classical literature (IA manualofclassica00eschrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofhistoryo00mattuoft/ A manual of the history of Greek and Roman literature]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofclassica00morr/ A Manual of Classical Literature]
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212877).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 1
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212885).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 2
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212893).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 3
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern0001unse/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern00sheruoft/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern03sheruoft/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 3]
* [[Index:The Roman empire- essays on the constitutional history from the accession of Domitian (81 A. D.) to the retirement of Nicephorus III (1081 A.D.) (IA romanempireessay01bussiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman empire- essays on the constitutional history from the accession of Domitian (81 A. D.) to the retirement of Nicephorus III (1081 A.D.) (IA romanempireessay02bussiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineempirer0000foor/ The Byzantine Empire]
* [[Index:The history of Greece - from its conquest by the crusaders to its conquest by the Turks, and of the empire of Trebizond ; 1204-1461 (IA historyofgreecef00finl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/fastiromanicivil01clinuoft/ Fasti Romani, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/fastiromanicivil02clinuoft/ Fasti Romani, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/churcheasternemp00toze/ The Church and the Eastern Empire]
* [[Index:Roman society in the last century of the Western empire (IA cu31924028321333).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romansocietyinla0000dill/ roman society in the last century of the western empire, 2nd edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/jurisprudenceofj00ewin/ The Jurisprudence of the Jewish Courts in Egypt]
* [[Index:Some phases of the problem of provincial administration under the Roman republic (IA somephasesofprob00mars).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/phasescorruptio01jollgoog/ Phases of corruption in Roman administration in the last half-century of the Roman republic]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanpoliticalin0000homo_f4f9/ Roman political institutions from city to state]
* [[Index:A history of Rome to 565 A. D. (IA cu31924028286726).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofrometo500boak_0/ A history of Rome to 565 A.D., 2nd Edition, 1929]
* [[Index:A general history of Rome from the foundation of the city to the fall of Augustulus, B.C. 753-A.D. 476 (IA cu31924031259587).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rome- from the fall of the western empire (IA romefromfallofwe00trev).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/studyofcognomina00deanuoft/ A study of the cognomina of soldiers in the Roman legions]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlegions0000park_q5m2/ The Roman Legions]
* [https://archive.org/details/sourcebookofroma0000munr/ A source book of Roman history]
* [[Index:Was the Roman army provided with medical officers? (electronic resource) (IA b21464625).pdf]]
* [[Index:Infamia- its place in Roman public and private law (IA cu31924021131531).pdf]]
* [[Index:The reorganization of Spain by Augustus (IA reorganization00vannrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/publiclibrariesl00boyduoft/ Public Libraries and Literary Culture in Ancient Rome]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofrome00leigiala/ A History of Rome]
* [https://archive.org/details/greeceunderroman00finluoft/ Greece under the Romans]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineportrai00dieh/ Byzantine Portraits]
* [https://archive.org/details/expressesofconta0000unse/ The Empresses of Constantinople]
* [[Index:Roman public life (IA romanpubliclife00greeiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Arab conquest of Egypt and the last thirty years of the Roman dominion (IA arabconquestofeg00butl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/jurisprudenceofj00ewin/ The Jurisprudence of the Jewish Courts in Egypt]
* [https://archive.org/details/greekromanfolklo0000hall_x8n7/ Greek and Roman Folklore]
* [[Index:Public lands and agrarian laws of the Roman republic- (IA publiclandsagrar00step).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sixromanlaws00harduoft/ Six Roman Laws]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/twostudiesinlate0000unse/ Two studies in later Roman and Byzantine administration]
* [https://archive.org/details/freshlightonroma0000jone/ Fresh Light on Roman Bureaucracy]
* [https://archive.org/details/christianityroma0000addi/ Christianity and the Roman Empire]
* [[Index:Christianity and the Roman government (IA christianityroma00hardrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early Christians in Rome (1911).djvu]]
* [[Index:Historical revelations of the relation existing between Christianity and paganism since the disintegration of the Roman Empire (IA historicalrevela00juli).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Christians in Rome (IA christiansinrome00mobe).pdf]]
* [[Index:Woman ; her position and influence in ancient Greece and Rome, and among the early Christians .. (IA womanherposition00donarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The story of the Romans; (IA storyromans00guergoog).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman Africa; an outline of the history of the Roman occupation of North Africa, based chiefly upon inscriptions and monumental remains in that country (IA cu31924028722134).pdf]]
* [[Index:An outline of Greek and Roman history, the result of class room work (IA outlineofgreekro00chad).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/the-illustrated-history-of-rome-and-the-roman-empire-1877/ The Illustrated History of Rome And The Roman Empire]
* [https://archive.org/details/christianitynati00wooduoft/ Christianity and Nationalism in the Later Roman Empire]
* [[Index:The conversion of the Roman empire (IA conversionofrom00meri).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintohi00ihneuoft/ Researches into the history of the Roman constitution]
* [[Index:Traces of Greek philosophy and Roman law in the New Testament (IA cu31924029302423).pdf]]
* [[Index:UPenn-Translations and Reprints-vol6.djvu]]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161302).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161344).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161310).pdf]], Volume 3
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161419).pdf]], Volume 4 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr04greg/ Volume 4 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161351).pdf]], Volume 5 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr05greg/ Volume 5 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161369).pdf]], Volume 6 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityo06greguoft/ Volume 6 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161377).pdf]], Volume 7 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr07greg/ Volume 7 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161385).pdf]], Volume 8 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr08greg/ Volume 8 Part 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancienttownplan00have/ Ancient Town-planning]
* [[Index:The Ancient City- A Study on the Religion, Laws, and Institutions of Greece and Rome.djvu]]
* [[Index:Physical science in the time of Nero; being a translation of the Quaestiones naturales of Seneca (IA physicalsciencei00seneiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman and the Teuton; a series of lectures delivered before the University of Cambridge (IA romanteutonserie01king).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineartarch00dalt/ Byzantine Art and Archaeology]
* [[Index:The history of Etruria .. (IA historyofetruria01gray).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:The history of Etruria .. (IA historyofetruria02gray).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:The cities and cemeteries of Etruria (IA etruriacitiesand01denniala).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:The cities and cemeteries of Etruria (IA etruriacitiesand02denniala).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:Etruria-Celtica- Etruscan Literature and Antiquities Investigated, in Two Volumes, Vol. I (IA dli.granth.53608).pdf]], Volume 1
* [https://archive.org/details/etruriacelticaet02beth/ Etruria-Celtica] Volume 2
* [https://archive.org/details/etruscanresearch00tayl/ Etruscan Researches]
* [[Index:Etruscan inscriptions (IA etruscaninscript00crawrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Etruscan Bologna- a study (IA etruscanbolognas00burtiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman imperialism (IA romanimperialism00fran).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tacitus and Other Roman Studies.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/invasionofeurope0000jbbu/ the invasion of europe by the barbarians]
* [[Index:A constitutional and political history of Rome, from the earliest times to the reign of Domitian (IA cu31924030431435).pdf]]
* [[Index:The development of the Roman constitution (IA developmentofrom00tighrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Coins of the Romans relating to Britain, described and illustrated (IA coinsofromansrel00aker).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the ancient Britons, from the earliest period to the invasion of the Saxons (IA historyofancient00gile).pdf]]
* [[Index:The invasion of Britain by Julius Caesar (IA invasionofbritai00lewi).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman era in Britain (IA romanerainbritai00wardiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Romanization of Roman Britain (IA romanizationofro00haverich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman roads in Britain (IA romanroadsinbrit00codr).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Celt, the Roman, and the Saxon; (IA celtromansaxon00wrig).pdf]]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient Britain in the light of modern archaeological discoveries (IA ancientbritainin00delm).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintoec01thac/ Researches into the ecclesiastical and political state of ancient Britain under the Roman emperors, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintoec02thac/ Researches into the ecclesiastical and political state of ancient Britain under the Roman emperors, Volume 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofpictsor00abbauoft/ A History of the Picts or Romano-British Wall]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanfrontierpos0000jame/ A Roman frontier post and its people]
* [[Index:Illustrations of Roman London (IA illustrationsofr00smitrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/londiniumarchite0000wrle/ Londinium Architecture and the Crafts]
* [https://archive.org/details/ourromanhighways00forbuoft/ Our Roman Highways]
* [[Index:History of Romulus (IA historyofromulusabbott).pdf]]
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00don).pdf]]
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the ethnography of ancient Italy and to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00donarich).pdf]], 2nd edition.
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the ethnography of ancient Italy and to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00dona).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [https://archive.org/details/primitiveitalybe0000homo/ Primitive Italy and the beginnings of Roman imperialism]
* [https://archive.org/details/stonebronzeagesi00peetuoft/ The stone and bronze ages in Italy and Sicily]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineempire00foor/ The Byzantine Empire (Edward Foord)]
* [[Index:The Byzantine Empire (IA byzantineempire00omanrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on Byzantine music (IA cu31924022269744).pdf]]
* [[Index:Constantine the Great; the reorganisation of the empire and the triumph of the church (IA constantinegreat00firt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Constantine, the last emperor of the Greeks; or, The conquest of Constantinople by the Turks (A.D. 1453) after the latest historical researches; (IA constantinelaste00mijarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine history in the early Middle Ages; the Rede lecture, delivered in the Senate House, Cambridge, June 12, 1900 (IA cu31924005774702).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine architecture; illustrated by examples of edifices erected in the East during the earliest ages of Christianity, with historical &amp; archaeological descriptions (IA gri 33125009314648).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman emperor worship (IA cu31924028269490).pdf]]
* [[Index:The last Cæsars of Byzantium (IA lastcsarsofbyzan00todi).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Latins in the Levant - a history of Frankish Greece, 1204-1566 (IA latinsinlevanthi00mill 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Fall of Constantinople.djvu]]
* [[Index:Destruction of the Greek Empire.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Romane historie (IA romanehistorie00livy).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman assemblies from their origin to the end of the republic (IA cu31924030431534).pdf]]
* [[Index:The imperial civil service of Rome (IA imperialcivilser00matt).pdf]]
* [[Index:A handbook of Greek constitutional history (IA handbookofgreekc00gree).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romeregalrepubli00striuoft/ Rome, Regal and Republican]
* [https://archive.org/details/dayinoldromepic00davi/ A Day in Old Rome]
* [[Index:The general, civil and military administration of Noricum and Raetia (IA generalcivilmili00peakrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Life and letters in Roman Africa microform (IA lifelettersinrom00boucrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Romae antiquae notitia, or, The antiquities of Rome - in two parts ... - with copper cuts of the principal buildings, etc. - to which are prefix'd two essays (IA romaeantiquaenot00kenn 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:A manual of Greek literature - from the earliest authentic periods to the close of the Byzantine era (IA manualgreek00anthrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/studentscompanio00midd/ The student's companion to Latin authors]
* [[Index:Loeb Classical Library, L001 (1919).djvu]]
* A History of the Republic of Rome {{esl|https://archive.org/details/historyofrepubli00bake/}}
* [[Index:Philological museum (IA cu31924104094903).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:Philological Museum v2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 1, 1854.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 2, 1855.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 3, 1857.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 4, 1859.djvu]]
* [[Index:Harper's dictionary of classical literature and antiquities (IA cu31924027019482).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities (1842, dictionaryofgree00smit 5).djvu]]
* [[Index:The auxilia of the Roman Imperial Army (IA auxiliaofromanim00cheerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1827) Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Topography and Monuments of Ancient Rome (1st Ed., Plattner, 1904, topographymonume0000plat v8a2).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine Constantinople - the walls of the city and adjoining historical sites (IA byzantineconstan00vanm).pdf]]
* A Companion To Latin Studies {{esl|https://archive.org/details/companiontolatin00sand/}}
* [[Index:A handbook of Rome and the Campagna (IA handbookofromeca00john 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Stories of ancient Rome (IA storiesofancient00rico).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early Rome (IA earlyrome00ihne).pdf]]
* [[Index:Men, events, lawyers, politics and politicians of early Rome (IA meneventslawyers00wage).pdf]]
* [[Index:State and family in early Rome (IA statefamilyinear00launiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The seven kings of the Seven Hills (IA sevenkingsofseve00lain).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_T2-CGU-516/ Rome of the Kings: An Archaeological Setting for Livy and Vergil]
* [[Index:The history of the kings of Rome. With a prefatory dissertation on its sources and evidence (IA historyofkingsof00dyerrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The kings of Rome (IA kingsofrome00rico).pdf]]
* [[Index:Regal Rome, an Introduction to Roman History (1852, Newman, London, regalromeintrodu00newmuoft).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_T2-CGU-516/ Rome of the Kings: An Archaeological Setting for Livy and Vergil]
* [https://archive.org/details/primitivefortif00parkgoog/ The primitive fortifications of the city of Rome, 2nd Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/handbookofromanl0000radi/ handbook of roman law]
* [[Index:The origin and history of contract in Roman law down to the end of the republican period - being the Yorke prize essay for the year 1893 (IA cu31924021131366).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_a-new-pandect-of-roman-c_ayliffe-john_1734/ A new pandect of Roman civil law]
* [[Index:Preliminary Lecture to the Course of Lectures on the Institutions of Justinian (Wilde, 1794, bim eighteenth-century preliminary-lecture-to-t wilde-john 1794).pdf]]
* An introduction to the study of Justinian's digest {{esl|https://archive.org/details/introductiontost00roby/}}
* [[Index:The ecclesiastical edicts of the Theodosian code (IA ecclesiasticaled00boydrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/legacyofrome00bail/ The Legacy of Rome]
* [[Index:Nomos Rhodon nautikos. The Rhodian sea-law (IA nomosrhodonnauti00byzarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early Roman Law, The Regal Period (Clark, 1872, earlyromanlawreg00claruoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:Roman Britain (Collingwood, First Ed., 1924, b29827590).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical introduction to the private law of Rome (IA historicalintrod00muiriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Gaii institutionum iuris civilis commentarii quattuor, or, Elements of Roman law by Gaius (Poste, Third Edition, 1890, gaiiinstitution00gaiu).djvu]]
* [[Index:A history and description of Roman political institutions (IA historyanddescri00abbo).pdf]]
* [[Index:Britannia Romana, or, The Roman Antiquities of Britain in Three Books (britanniaromanao00hors, John Horsley, 1732).djvu]]
* [[Index:The municipalites of the Roman empire (IA municipalitesofr00reidrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Selected Letters of Cicero (Abbott, 1897, selectedletterso0000cice u2i6).pdf]]
* [[Index:Society and politics in ancient Rome; essays and sketches (IA cu31924087980326).pdf]]
* [[Index:The common people of ancient Rome- studies of Roman life and literature (IA cu31924028267841).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman system of provincial administration to the accession of Constantine the Great, being the Arnold prize essay for 1879 (IA romansystemofpro00arnoiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/twostudiesinlate0000unse/ Two Studies in Later Roman and Byzantine Administration]
* [[Index:The imperial administrative system in the ninth century, with a revised text of Kletorologion of Philotheos (IA imperialadminist00buryrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal Administration in the Roman Empire (1926, Abbot and Johnson, municipaladminis00abbo).pdf]]

==== Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics ====
* [[Index:Pseudodoxia epidemica, or, Enquiries into very many received tenents, and commonly presumed truths (IA b30335760).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cycling (IA cyclingc00alberich).pdf]], Cycling, Badminton Library, 5th Edition
* [[Index:The bicycle- its care and repair (IA bicycleitscarere00vonc).pdf]]
* [[Index:https://archive.org/details/commonsenseofbic00ward/]], Bicycling for ladies
* [https://archive.org/details/helptotheunlearn00trimuoft/ A help to the unlearned in the study of the Holy Scriptures]
* [[Index:Origin of Modern Calculating Machines.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.2.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.3.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.4.djvu]]
* [[Index:A general history of mathematics from the earliest times to the middle of the eighteenth century (IA generalhistoryof00bossrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The teaching and history of mathematics in the United States (IA teachinghistoryo00cajorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Higher mathematics - a textbook for classical and engineering colleges (IA highermathematic00merrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to mathematics, by A. N. Whitehead (IA introductiontoma00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cornell University Library digitization (IA cu31924001078777).pdf]], Mathematical Dictionary and Cyclopedia of Mathematical Science
* [https://archive.org/details/principlesofmech00hertuoft/ The Principles of Mechanics]
* [[Index:Collected papers in physics and engineering (IA collectedpapersi00thomrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Theory of functions of a complex variable (IA functcomplexvari00forsrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the elements of the differential and integral calculus (IA introductiontost00harnrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on elementary trigonometry (IA treatiseonelemen00lockrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Elementary trigonometry (IA elementarytrigon00paterich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Earliest arithmetics in English (IA earliestarithmet00alexrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical introduction to mathematical literature (IA cu31924064123536).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/calculus0000henr/ Calculus]
* [https://archive.org/details/electiccircuitth0000john Electric Circuit Theory and the Operational Calculus]
* [[Index:Graphical and mechanical computation (IA cu31924004667550).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on computation; an account of the chief methods for contracting and abbreviating arithmetical calculations (IA treatiseoncomput00langiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to mathematics, by A. N. Whitehead (IA introductiontoma00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Daedalus; or, Science and the Future (1924, E.P. Dutton &amp; Company).pdf]]
* [[Index:Science (journal) Volume 1 1883.djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 1 (1837).djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 2 (1841).djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 3 (1843).djvu]]
* [[Index:Getty Research Institute (IA economiccottageb00dwye).pdf]], The Economic Cottage Builder
* [[Index:Elements of angling; a book for beginners (IA elementsofanglin00sherrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A book on angling; being a complete treatise on the art of angling in every branch (IA bookonanglingbei00franrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Fishcraft, a treatise on fresh water fish and fishing (IA fishcrafttreatis00pond).pdf]]
* [[Index:The potter's craft - a practical guide for the studio and workshop (IA potterscraftprac00binn 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of camping and woodcraft - a guidebook for those who travel in the wilderness (IA bookofcampingwoo00keph).pdf]]
* [[Index:Camp craft, modern practice and equipment (IA campcraftmodernp00millrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Camp kits and camp life (IA campkitscamplife00hankiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of woodcraft (IA bookofwoodcraft00seto).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of woodcraft and Indian lore (IA bookofwoodcrafti02seto).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Harper's camping and scouting; an outdoor guide for American boys; (IA harperscampingsc00grinrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Shelters, shacks, and shanties (IA sheltersshackssh01bear).pdf]]
* [[Index:The electric telegraph - its history and progress.. (IA electrictelegrap00highrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Electricity, magnetism, and electric telegraphy; a practical guide and hand-book of general information for electrical students, operators, and inspectors (IA electricitymagne00lockrich).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1883
* [[Index:Electricity, magnetism, and electric telegraphy; a practical guide and hand-book of general information for electrical students, operators, and inspectors (IA electricitymagne00lock).pdf]], 3rd Edition, 1890
* [[Index:Davis's manual of magnetism - including galvanism, magnetism, electro-magnetism, electro-dynamics, magneto-electricity, and thermo-electricity (IA davissmanualofma00davi).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical sketch of the electric telegraph including its rise and progress in the United States (IA historicalsketch00jonerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity and galvanism; with cases, shewing their effects in the cure of diseases (IA b22042684).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity - in six sections ... (IA introductiontoel1770ferg).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity. In six sections ... - illustrated with copper plates (IA b30501350).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity. In six sections ... (IA introductiontoel00ferg).pdf]], 3rd Edition]]
* [https://archive.org/details/dynamoelectricit00pres/ Dynamo-electricity]
* [https://archive.org/details/radioactivit00ruth/ Radio-activity]
* [https://archive.org/details/electronnuclearp0000jbar/ Electrons and Nuclear Physics]
* [https://archive.org/details/ionselectronsion00crowuoft/ Ions, Electrons, and Ionizing Radiations]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29927997/ Atoms and Rays]
* [[Index:Atomic theories (IA atomictheories00loririch).pdf]]
* [[Index:X-ray manual - U.S. Army (IA xraymanualusarmy00unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl01amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl02amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl03amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl04amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:The study of the atom - or, The foundation of chemistry (IA studyofatomorfou00venarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The method of fluxions and infinite series.djvu]]
* [[Index:Practical observations on the generation of statical electricity by the electrical machine (IA 101208559.nlm.nih.gov).pdf]]
* [[Index:American Journal of Mathematics Vol. 2 (1879).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of radio communication (IA principlesofradi00morerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Electrical machine design; the design and specification of direct and alternating current machinery .. (IA electricalmachin00grayrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Incandescent wiring hand-book, (IA incandescentwiri00badt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Bell System Technical Journal, Volume 1, 1922.pdf]]
* [[Index:Science Advances, Volume 8, Issue 44, Recursive sequence generation in crows (sciadv.abq3356).pdf]]
* [[Index:An Investigation of the Laws of Thought (1854, Boole, investigationofl00boolrich).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anatomy of the Human Body (1918).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/b30322704/ An Institution Trigonometricall, 1635]
* [https://archive.org/details/McGillLibrary-rbsc_elements-geometrie-evclide-megara_folioQA31E867131570-21289/ Euclid's Geometrie, 1570]
* [[Index:Mr. Wingate's Arithmetick Containing a Plain and Familiar Method, for Attaining the Knowledge and Practice of Common Arithmetick (7th Edition, Edmund Wingate, 1678, b30342211).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mathematical Recreations or, a Collection of many Problems Extracted out of the Ancient and Modern Philosophers (Jean Leurechon, 1674, b30325882).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lux Mercatoria - Bridges - 1661.djvu]]
* [[Index:First book of mathematics, being an easy and practical introduction to the study; for self-instruction and use in schools (IA firstbookofmathe00reidrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indian Basketry.djvu]]
* [[Index:Machinery's Handbook, (6th Edition, 1924, machineryshandbo00indu).pdf]]
* [[Index:De re metallica (1912).djvu]]

=====Nature, Zoology, Entomology, Myrmecology, and other Insects and Animals=====
* [[Index:Chapters on ants (IA chaptersonants00trearich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Observations on the biology of the imported fire ant (IA observationsonbi49inse).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/collectedpaperso00whee/ Collected Papers on Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/biologicalembryo00tanq_0/ Biological and embryological studies on Formicidae]
* [[Index:Comparative studies in the psychology of ants and of higher animals (IA comparativestudi00wasmiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/learningorientat00schn/ Learning and Orientation in Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.460830/ Ants, by Julian Huxley...need better scan]
* [https://archive.org/details/demonsofdust0000will/ Demons of the Dust: A Study in Insect Behavior]
* [https://archive.org/details/sociallifeamongi00whee/ Social Life Among the Insects]
* [[Index:Life in an ant hill, (IA lifeinanthill00writ).pdf]]
* [[Index:Insect architecture (IA b22026885).pdf]], 1830, 1st Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/antpeople0000ewer/ The Ant People]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_P9-CSD-957/ Busy: The Life of Ant], novel
* [[Index:Ants and the children of the garden, relating the habits of the black harvester ant, and giving considerable information about ants in general (IA antsthechildreno00simkrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Field book of insects (IA fieldbookofins00lutz).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Field book of insects, with special reference to those of northeastern United States, aiming to answer common questions (IA fieldbookofinsec00lutz).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Ants and their ways, with illustrations, and an appendix giving a complete list of genera and species of the British ants (IA antstheirwayswit00whit).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/naturescraftsmen00mcco/ Nature's Craftsmen]
* [[Index:Ant communities and how they are governed; a study in natural civics (IA antcommunitiesho00mcco).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ants, Wheeler (1910).djvu]]
* [[Index:Ants and some other insects; an inquiry into the psychic powers of these animals (IA antssomeotherins00fore).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA treatiseofbuggss00sout).pdf]], A treatise of buggs
* [[Index:Insect transformations (IA b22027191).pdf]]
* [[Index:Institutions of entomology- being a translation of Linnaeus's Ordines et genera insectorum; or, Systematic arrangement of insects (IA CUbiodiversity1115923).pdf]]
* [[Index:The elements of insect anatomy; an outline for the use of students in the entomological laboratories of Cornell University and Leland Stanford Junior University (IA elementsofinsect00comsto).pdf]]
* [[Index:The entomologist's text book - an introduction to the natural history, structure, physiology and classification of insects, including the Crustacea and Arachnida (IA entomologiststex00westw).pdf]]
* [[Index:The natural history of ants (IA b29289981).pdf]]
* [[Index:The natural history of insects (IA b28755741).pdf]]
* [[Index:An Account of English Ants (Gould, 1747, IA accountofenglish00goul).pdf]]
* [[Index:Journal of the Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia (IA journalofacademy01acaduoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Aristotle - History of Animals, 1883.djvu]]
* [[Index:The play of animals (IA playofanimals00groouoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Animals at work and play - their activities and emotions (IA animalsatworkpla00cornuoft).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Animals at work and play, their activities and emotions (IA animalsatworkpla00cornrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/animalsatworkpla00corn/ Animals at Work and Play, 3rd Edition]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb01aalba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb02alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb03alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb04alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb05alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb06alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb07alba).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/psychobiology01baltuoft/ Psychobiology V1]
* [https://archive.org/details/psychobiology02baltuoft/ Psychobiology V2]
* [[Index:Ants, bees, and wasps. A record of observations on the habits of the social Hymenoptera (IA antsbeeswaspsrec00john).pdf]]
* [[Index:The bee and white ants, their manners and habits - with illustrations of animal instinct and intelligence - from &quot;The museum of science and art&quot; ... (IA beewhiteantsthei00lardrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofwhiteant00maet/ The Life of the White Ant], plagiarized from [[The Soul of the White Ant]] by [[Author:Eugène Nielen Marais|Eugène Nielen Marais]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofant0000maet/ The Life of the Ant]
* [[Index:Mind in animals (IA mindinanimals00bchniala).pdf]]
* [[Index:British ants, their life-history and classification (IA britishantstheir00donirich).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1915
* [https://archive.org/details/britishants0000jkdo/ British Ants, 2nd Edition, 1927]
* [https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/002009241/ The Guests of British Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/hymenopteraacule00saun/ The Hymenoptera Aculeata of the British Islands]
* [[Index:Elementary lessons in zoölogy - a guide in studying animal life and structure in field and laboratory (IA elementarylesso00need).pdf]]
* [[Index:Some common mushrooms and how to know them (IA somecommonmushr143char).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/fungihowtoknowth00swan/ Fungi and How to Know Them]
* [https://archive.org/details/britishsocialwas00ormeuoft/ British Social Wasps]

====Fantasy, Fiction, Poetry, Tolkien, Etc.====
* [[Index:The story of Sigurd the Volsung and the fall of the Niblungs (IA storyofsigurdvol00morriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Translation of the Anglo-Saxon Poem of Beowulf (Kemble 1837).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Worm Ouroboros - 1922.djvu]]
* [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]
* [[Index:Tolkien - A middle English Vocabulary.djvu]]
* [[Index:Fourteenth_Century_Verse_and_Prose_-_Sisam_-_1921.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Review of English Studies Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Mabinogion; (IA mabinogion00schrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The gods of Pegana (IA godsofpegana00duns).pdf]]
* [[Index:John Martin Crawford - The Kalevala (Vol 1) - (IA cu31924026852917).pdf]]
* [[Index:John Martin Crawford - The Kalevala (Vol 2) - (IA cu31924030974038).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early English romances in verse- (IA earlyenglishroma00rickrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Middle English reader - edited, with grammatical introduction notes, and glossary (IA middleenglishrea00emerrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The most delectable history of Reynard the Fox; (IA mostdelectablehi00jacorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The most delectable history of Reynard the Fox, and of his son Reynardine - a revised version of an old romance (IA mostdelectablehi00londiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Reynard the Fox, a poem in twelve cantos (IA reynardfoxpoemin00hollrich).pdf]]

====Games, Tabletop, Wargame, Military, RPG, Videogame, etc.====
* [[Index:Ship and gun drills, United States navy, 1905 (IA shipgundrillsuni00unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:Naval administration and warfare - some general principles, with other essays (IA navaladministrat00maha).pdf]]
* [[Index:Naval administration and warfare (IA navaladministrat01maha).pdf]], 1918 reprint
* [[Index:Routine book, including general features of organization, administration, and ordinary station bills (IA routinebookinclu00belk).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/yashkamylifeaspe00bochuoft/ Yashka, my life as peasant, exile and soldier]
* [[Index:An account of the organization of the army of the United States (IA orgzofthearmyusa01robirich).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:An account of the organization of the army of the United States (IA orgofthearmyusa01robirich).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:Military and naval America (IA militaryandnaval00kerriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Routine book, including general features of organization, administration, and ordinary station bills (IA routinebookinclu00belk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Yankee navy (IA yankeenavy00mass).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Yankee mining squadron; or, Laying the North sea mine barrage (IA yankeeminingsqua00belk).pdf]]
* [[Index:779th Radar Squadron (ADC) Opheim AFS Montana New Personnel Brochure 1973.pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancientmodernshi00holmuoft/ Ancient and Modern Ships: Part I]
* [https://archive.org/details/sailingshipsstor00chatuoft/ Sailing ships : the story of their development from earliest times to the present day]
* [[Index:The British navy (IA cu31924030756146).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ships of the Royal Navy (IA shipsofroyalnavy00park).pdf]]
* [[Index:The British Navy from within (IA britishnavyfromw00exrorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The British navy in battle (IA britishnavyinbat00poll).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/popularhistoryof00kinguoft/ A Popular history of the British Navy from the earliest times to the present]
* [[Index:The Royal Navy (IA cu31924028018574).pdf]]
* [[Index:The German army in war (IA germanarmyinwar00atterich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Handbook on German army identification (IA handbookongerman02unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:The war book of the German general staff; being &quot;the usages of war on land&quot; issued by the great general staff of the German army; (IA warbookofgermang00newyiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The German army. Department of military art, the Army service schools (IA germanarmydepart00bjorrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes on field fortifications (IA notesonfieldfort00armyrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military organization of the United States (IA militaryorganiza00comm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Army and Navy Uniforms and Insignia (Williams, 1918, armynavyuniforms00will).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military and naval recognition book; a handbook on the organization, insignia of rank, and customs of the service of the world's important armies and navies (IA militarynavalrec00bunkrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Military and naval recognition book, a handbook on the organization, insignia of rank, and customs of the service of the world's important armies and navies (IA recognitionmilitary00bunkrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Orders, decorations and insignia, military and civil; with the history and romance of their origin and a full description of each (IA ordersdecoration00wyllrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military Organization and Administration (Collins, 1918, militaryorganiza00colluoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Organization; how armies are formed for war (IA organizationhowa00fostiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Company administration - preparation, disposition, and filing of company records, reports, and returns (IA c00ompanyadministrunitrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Dungeons &amp; Dragons System Reference Document.pdf]]
* [[Index:John Banks Wilson - Maneuver and Firepower (1998).djvu]]
* [[Index:FM-34-45-Tactics-Techniques-and-Procedures-for-Electronic-Attack.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fm100-2-3 - The Soviet Army, Troops, Organization, and Equipment.pdf]]
* [[Index:United States Army Field Manual 3-13 Information Operations.djvu]]

====Asia====
* [[Index:Eastern Asia, a history, being the second edition of A brief history of eastern Asia, entirely rewritten (IA easternasiahisto00hannrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofchinabe0000unse/ A History of China]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancienthistoryof00hirtuoft/ The ancient history of China to the end of the Chóu dynasty]
* [[Index:A little history of China, and a Chinese story (IA littlehistoryofc00brebiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of China; (IA historyofchina00will).pdf]]
* [[Index:The three religions of China; lectures delivered at Oxford (IA cu31924023204062).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tibet, Tartary, and Mongolia ; their social and political condition, and the religion of Boodh, as there existing (IA tibettartarymong00prin).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of tea - a Japanese harmony of art culture and the simple life (IA bookofteajapanes00okakrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of Corea, ancient and modern - with description of manners and customs, language and geography (IA cu31924023564549).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of Corea, Ancient and Modern; with Description of Manners and Customs, Language and Geography WDL2374.pdf]], Cheaper Edition, 1891.
* [https://archive.org/details/anglicanchurchin00corf/ The Anglican Church in Corea]
* [[Index:Corea, the hermit nation. I. Ancient and mediaeval history. II. Political and social Corea. III. Modern and recent history (IA coreahermitnatio00grif).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/coreawithoutwith00grif_0/ Corea, Without and Within]
* [[Index:Who is God in China.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924023233947/ The early institutional life of Japan]
* [[Index:The development of religion in Japan (IA developmentofrel00knoxrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The religions of Japan - from the dawn of history to the era of Méiji - by William Elliott Griffis (IA religionsofjapan00grifrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/japanaccountgeog00macfuoft/ Japan]
* [https://archive.org/details/ost-art-japaneseart00hartuoft/ Japanese Art]
* [[Index:Old and new Japan (IA oldnewjapan00hollrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Japan as it was and is. (IA japanasitwasis00hild 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Japanese empire- its physical, political, and social condition and history; with details of the late American and British expeditions (IA japaneseempireit01kemi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Japanese empire and its economic conditions (IA japaneseempireit00daut).pdf]]
* [[Index:The present state of the medical administration of the Japanese empire (IA presentstateofme00japaiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Japan - its architecture, art, and art manufactures (IA japanitsarchitec00dres 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:China, Japan and Korea (IA chinajapankorea00blan).pdf]]
* [[Index:Korea (IA korea00coul).pdf]]
* [[Index:Quaint Korea (IA quaintkorea00milnrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Kaempfer History of Japan 1727 vol 2 (IA historyofjapangi02kaem).pdf]]
* [[Index:Kaempfer History of Japan 1727 vol 1 (IA historyofjapangi01kaem).pdf]]
* [[Index:A dissertation on the theology of the Chinese, - with a view to the elucidation of the most appropriate term for expressing the Diety in the Chinese language. (IA dissertationonth00medhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Abstract of four lectures on Buddhist literature in China - delivered at University college, London (IA cu31924023158607).pdf]]
* [[Index:Index:The Chinese Classics - Legge - 2nd ed - 1893 - Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Synoptical studies in the Chinese character (1874).djvu]]
* [[Index:Elementary Chinese - San Tzu Ching (1900).djvu]]
* [[Index:An Anglo-Chinese vocabulary of the Ningpo dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Easy sentences in the Hakka dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:A dictionary of the Hakka dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Chinese-English Dictionary Hakka-dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:Nestorian Monument - Carus.djvu]]
* [[Index:An alphabetical index to the Chinese encyclopaedia.pdf]]
* [[Index:Sun Tzu on The art of war.djvu]]
* [[Index:A Chinese Biographical Dictionary.djvu]]
* [[Index:Pekinese Rhymes (G. Vitale, 1896).djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese Life in the Tibetan Foothills.djvu]]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA dictionaryofhokk00medhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Excellent ancient adages, together with notes on the writings of Chinese romanized in the Hokkien dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Essays on the Chinese Language (1889).djvu]]
* [[Index:A short history of China; an account for the general reader of an ancient empire and people (IA sh00orthistoryofchboulrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:A short history of China; an account for the general reader of an ancient empire and people (IA shorthistoryofch00boulrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:A history of China from the earliest days down to the present (IA cu31924091024392).pdf]]
* [[Index:The unveiled East (IA unveiledeast00mcke).pdf]]
* [[Index:Letters from the Far East (IA lettersfromfarea00evan).pdf]]
* [[Index:China and the Far East (IA chinafareast00blak).pdf]]
* [[Index:China and the Far East, 1889-99 - contribution toward a bibliography (IA cu31924023967734).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/gpl_1856272/ The Morals of Confucius, 1691]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA chinesenovelstra00davirich).pdf|Chinese novels, translated from the originals]]
* [[Index:Notes on Chinese literature (IA notesonchineseli00wyli).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/chunsilinghistor00londiala/ Chun and Si-Ling]
* [[Index:The Far East (IA fareast00litt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Provinces of China, together with a history of the first year of H.I.M. Hsuan Tung, and an account of the government of China .. (IA provincesofchina00bruciala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Ceremonial Usages of the Chinese, B. C. 1121- Being an Abridgement of the Chow Le Classic (IA ceremonialusage00hugoog).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/civilizationofch00gileiala/ The Civilization of China]
* [[Index:A general view of Chinese civilization and of the relations of the West with China (IA generalviewofchi00laffrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sidelights on Chinese Life (sidelightsonchin00macg, 1907, MacGowan).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of Chinese literature - Giles.djvu]]
* [[Index:Notable women of modern China (IA notablewomenofmo00burt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The education of women in Japan (IA educationofwomen00burt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The education of girls in China (IA educationofgirls00lewi).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/chinesetheireduc00martiala/ The Chinese: their education, philosophy, and letters]
* [[Index:The lore of Cathay - or, The intellect of China (IA loreofcathayorin00martrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:China's only hope - an appeal (IA chinasonlyhopeap00zhan).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese Empire. A General &amp; Missionary Survey.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/educationofwomen00burtuoft/ The Education of Women in China]
* [[Index:Modern education in China (IA moderneducationi00tang).pdf]]
* [[Index:The educational system of China as recently reconstructed (IA educationalsyste00king).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese system of public education (IA chinesesystemop00kuop).pdf]]
* [[Index:Chinese education from the western viewpoint (IA chineseeducation00yens).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sihialanguage27lauf/ The Si-hia Language]
* [https://archive.org/details/chinahistoryofla01grayuoft/ China: a History of the Laws, Manners and Customs of the People, Volume 1]
* [[Index:China - a history of the laws, manners and customs of the people (IA chinahistoryofla02grayuoft).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:On &amp; off duty in Annam (IA onoffdutyinannam00vassiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/storieslegendsof00chiv/ Stories and Legends of Annam]
* [[Index:Vietnamese Song Book (U.S. Army Language School, 1961).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indo-China and its primitive people (IA indochinaitsprim00baud).pdf]]
* [[Index:The persecutions of Annam; a history of Christianity in Cochin China and Tonking (IA persecutionsofan00shoriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The French in Tonkin and South China (IA frenchintonkinso00cunn).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tonkin, or, France in the Far East (IA cu31924023040581).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tungking (IA cu31924088799386).pdf]]
* [[Index:France and Tongking; a narrative of the campaign of 1884 and the occupation of Further India (IA francetongkingna01scot 0).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warintongkingwh00staugoog/ The War in Tong-king]
* [[Index:The political ideas of modern Japan (IA politicalideasof00kawarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Studies in Vietnamese (Annamese) grammar (Emeneau).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Corean government- constitutional changes, July 1894 to October 1895. With an appendix on subsequent enactments to 30th June 1896 (IA cu31924023425063).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of that great and renowned monarchy of China. Wherein all the particular provinces are accurately described- as also the dispositions, manners, learning, lawes, militia (IA historyofthatgre00seme).pdf]]
* [[Index:Code of Gentoo Laws (1776, codeofgentoolaws00halh, Halhed).djvu]]
* [[Index:Ancient China, The Shoo King or the Historical Classic (Ancientchinashoo00confuoft, Medhurst, 1846).djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese Moral Maxims - Davis - 1823.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland 1864-65.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese Repository - Volume 01.djvu]]
* [[Index:An Ainu-English-Japanese dictionary (including a grammar of the Ainu language).djvu]]
* [[Index:How Many Independent Rice Vocabularies in Asia?.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Grammar of the Chinese Language (grammarofchinese00morr 1, Morrison, 1815).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ta Tsing Leu Lee; Being, The Fundamental Laws, and a Selections from the Supplementary Statutes, of the Penal Code of China.djvu]]
* [[Index:Dictionary of the Swatow dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese miscellany; consisting of original extracts from Chinese authors, in the native character; with translations and philological remarks (IA b22009450).pdf]]
* [[Index:Translations from the Original Chinese, with Notes (translationsfrom00morruoft, 1815).djvu]]

====Manuscripts====
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Nero A x (art. 3).pdf]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Nero D IV.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Julius A II.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Julius A VII.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Vitellius A XV.djvu]]

==== North Carolina ====
* [https://archive.org/details/communityservice00nort_0/ Community Service Week in North Carolina]
* [[Index:Citizens' reference book - a text and reference book for pupils and teachers in community schools for adult beginners (IA citizensreferenc1922morr).pdf]]
* [[Index:Annual report of North Carolina Council of Defense (serial) (IA annualreportofno11918nort).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rules and regulations of Mecklenburg County Home Guard (IA rulesregulations00north).pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Council of Defense - plan of organization (IA northcarolinacounort).pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Council of defense historical committee (IA northcarolinacou00no).pdf]]
* [[Index:North Carolina, a study in English colonial government (IA northcarolinas00rape).pdf]]
* [[Index:Reconstruction in North Carolina (IA cu31924028788664).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Reconstruction in North Carolina .. (IA reconstructionin00hami).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Official history of the 120th Infantry &quot;3rd North Carolina&quot; 30th Division, from August 5, 1917, to April 17, 1919 - canal sector, Ypres-Lys offensive, Somme offensive (IA officialhistoryowalk).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/accountofprovinc00wils/ An Account of the Province of Carolina in America]
* [https://archive.org/details/fundamentalconst00caro/ The Fundamental Constitutions of Carolina]
* [[Index:University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (IA govwilliamtryon00hayw).pdf]], Governor William Tryon, and his administration in the province of North Carolina
* [[Index:The Moravians in North Carolina - an authentic history (IA moraviansinnorth00reic).pdf]]
* [[Indes:History of Wachovia in North Carolina; the Unitas fratrum or Moravian church in North Carolina during a century and a half, 1752-1902 (IA historyofwachovi00clew).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the University of North Carolina (IA historyofunivers00batt).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the University of North Carolina (IA historyofunivers02batt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Laws of the University of North-Carolina (1800, lawsofuniversityuniv1799).djvu]]
* [[Index:Report of the Tax Commission to Governor Angus Wilton McLean, 1927.pdf]]
* [[Index:Regulations for the North Carolina National Guard, 1907.pdf]]
* [[Index:Reminiscences of Randolph County - Blair - 1890.djvu]]
* [[Index:West Chowan Baptist Messenger, Volume 1 - Issue 4.pdf]]
* [[Index:Revised Statutes of the State of North Carolina - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Session Laws of North Carolina, April, 1777.pdf]]
* [[Index:A bibliography of North Carolina, 1589-1956 - 1958.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Asheboro Courier, Volume IX, No. 26.pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Historical Review - Volume 1, Number 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:1751 A collection of all the public acts of Assembly, of the province of North-Carolina now in force and use.pdf]]
* [[Index:North Carolina Manual (1874).pdf]]
* [[Index:NC-Register-Volume-01-Issue-01.pdf]]

== Series/Periodicals/Journals ==
* [[Science (journal)]]
* [[The China Review]]
* [[Amazing Stories]]
* [[The Chinese Repository]]
* [[Federal Register]]
* [[Weird Tales]]
* [[The Journal of Religion]]
* [[Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society]]
* [[Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology]]
* [[Journal of Germanic Philology]]
* [[Journal of English and Germanic Philology]]
* [[Southern Historical Society Papers]]
* [[Archaeologia]]
* [[Portal:The Review of English Studies|The Review of English Studies]]
* [[Archaeological Journal]]
* [[National Geographic Magazine]]
* [[Classical World]]
* [[The International Socialist Review (1900-1918)]]
* [[Loeb Classical Library]]
* [[West Chowan Baptist Messenger]], in case more issues show up.
* [[The Courier]]
* [[North Carolina Historical Review]]

== Copyright books, bibliographies, etc. ==
* [[Catalog of Copyright Entries]]
* [[Index:A bibliography of North Carolina, 1589-1956 - 1958.djvu]]

== Authors I'm working on / might work on ==
* [[author:John Ronald Reuel Tolkien|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien]]
* [[author:Alexander Ross|Alexander Ross]]
* [[Author:George Lyman Kittredge|George Lyman Kittredge]]
* [[Author:Frank Johnson Goodnow|Frank Johnson Goodnow]]
* [[Author:Frank Frost Abbott|Frank Frost Abbott]]
* [[Author:John Bagnell Bury|John Bagnell Bury]]
* [[Author:Edwin Charles Clark|Edwin Charles Clark]]
* [[Author:James Muirhead (1831-1889)|James Muirhead]]
* [[Author:Edward Poste|Edward Poste]]
* [[Author:James Young Simpson|James Young Simpson]]
* [[Author:Francis Ellingwood Abbot|Francis Ellingwood Abbot]]

== WikiProjects ==

* [[Wikisource:WikiProject North Carolina|WikiProject North Carolina]]
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject Socialism|WikiProject Socialism]]
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject Chinese|WikiProject Chinese]]

== Other ==

* Created the [[Template:PD-Nauru]] for Nauruan works

== Other Accounts ==

* https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Reboot01

== Scripts and Tools and things ==

*[[/Sandbox/]]
*[[/common.js/]]
*[[/common.css/]]
*[[/CustomToolbarAdditions.js/]]

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Primary interests; Linguistics, Ancient Rome + Byzantine Studies, Latin, Africa, The Gambia, Law, North Carolina, the East Asian Cultural Sphere, South East Asia, Theology/Mythology/Religious Studies, Alchemy, Magic, Occult, etc., Calligraphy, Paleography, Political Science, Economics, Socialism/Anarchism/Marxism and etc. (List is not in any particular order)

Feel free to contact me on my user talk page, or at the WikiSource Discord, reboot01!

== Currently working on/Want to have time to work on ==
=== Projects ===
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject North Carolina/North Carolina Bibliography (1589-1956)|Sub-Project North Carolina Bibliography (1589-1956)]]

=== Indexes ===
* [[Index:Mother (IA mother00gorkrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Criterion - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Criterion - Volume 4.djvu]]
* [[Index:Lltreaties-ustbv001.pdf]]
* [[Index:The anatomy of melancholy - vvhat it is, vvith all the kindes, causes, symptomes, prognostickes, and severall cures of it - in three maine partitions with their seuerall sections (IA anatomyofmelanch00burt 2).pdf]]

====Reference Works, Dictionaries, Ecyclopedias, Language etc,====
* [[Index:Helps for student-writers (IA helpsforstudentw00hawk).pdf]]
* [[Index:Short stories in the making; a writers' and students' introduction to the technique and practical composition of short stories (IA shortstoriesinma00nea).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lectures on the elements of hieroglyphics and Egyptian antiquities (IA lecturesonelemen00spin).pdf]]
* [[Index:Account of Some Recent Discoveries in Hieroglyphical Literature and Egyptian Antiquities (IA dli.granth.37546).pdf]]
* [[Index:A grammar of the Samaritan language, with extracts and vocabulary (IA grammarofsamarit00nich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The dialect of the southern counties of Scotland - Murray - 1873.djvu]]
* [[Index:The place names of Elginshire (IA placenamesofelgi00mathrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of English balladry, and other studies (IA historyofenglish00brya).pdf]], 1919 reprint
* [[Index:A history of English balladry, and other studies (IA cu31924017774658).pdf]], 1913 print
* [[Index:A grammar of the Mandingo language- with vocabularies (IA grammarofmanding00macb).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern English - its growth and present use (IA modernenglishits00krap).pdf]]
* [[Index:The rise, progress, and present structure of the English language. (IA harrisonriseprog00harr).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishlanguagei0000geor/ The English Language in America, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishlanguagei0002geor/ The English Language in America, Volume 2]
* [[Index:The American language; an inquiry into the development of English in the United States (IA americanlanguage00menc 0).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [[Index:The American Language.djvu]]
* [[Index:American English (IA americanenglish00tuck).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/englishdialectg00wrig/ The English Dialect Grammar]
* [[Index:Phonology and grammar of modern west Frisian, with phonetic texts and glossary (IA phonologygrammar00sipm).pdf]]
* [[Index:A grammar of the Old Friesic language (IA grammarofoldfrie00cummrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:A grammar of the Old Friesic language (IA grammarofoldfrie00cummiala).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:The Frisian language and literature- a historical study (IA frisianlanguagel00hewerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A key into the language of America- or, An help to the language of the natives in that part of America, called New-England. - Together, with briefe observations of the customes (IA keyintolanguageo00will 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:File:A grammar of the Malagasy language, in the Ankova dialect (IA grammarofmalagas00grifrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the Maya hieroglyphs (IA introductiontost00morl 0).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/grammarofoscanum00buckuoft/ A Grammar of Oscan and Umbrian]
* [[Index:Pronunciation of Latin in the Augustan period (IA pronunciationofl00cambrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/childrensliterat0000curr/ Children's Literature]
* [[Index:Rudiments of Grammar for the English-Saxon Tongue (Elstob 1715).djvu]]
* [[Index:An Icelandic-English Dictionary - Cleasby &amp; Vigfusson - 1874.djvu]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume I, A-B.pdf]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume II, C-L.pdf]]
* [[Index:Encyclopædia Britannica, first edition - Volume III, M-Z.pdf]]
* [[Index:Jewish Encyclopedia Volume 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:Catholic Encyclopedia, volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Pantographia - Fry - 1799.djvu]]
* [[Index:A practical grammar of the Hebrew language - Felsenthal - 1868.djvu]]
* [[Index:The grammar of English grammars.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Brasilian language and its agglutination.pdf]]
* [[Index:AnEssayTowardsARealCharacterAndAPhilosophicalLanguage.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Universal Alphabet, Grammar, and Language (universalalphabe00edmo, George Edmunds, 1856) (IA universalalphabe00edmo).pdf]]

====Theology, Spirituality, Occult, Mythology, old science and medicine etc.====
* [https://archive.org/details/orientalliteratu00muhiuoft/ The Dabistan]
* [https://archive.org/details/witchesstilllive00keny/ Witches Still Live]
* [[Index:Aradia or The Gospel of the witches.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29978518/ The mysteries and secrets of magic]
* [https://archive.org/details/demonologywitchc00brow/ Demonology and Witchcraft]
* [[Index:Witch, warlock, and magician; historical sketches of magic and witchcraft in England and Scotland (IA witchwarlockmagi00adamrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of witches; (IA bookofwitches00huef).pdf]]
* [[Index:La sorcière; the witch of the middle ages (IA lasorcierewitcho00michiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/dragonsdragonlor0000erne/ Dragons and Dragon Lore]
* [[Index:The evolution of the dragon (IA evolutionofdrago00smituoft).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/celticdragonmyth0000jrge/ The Celtic Dragon Myth]
* [https://archive.org/details/unicornamytholo00browgoog/ The Unicorn: A Mythological Investigation]
* [[Index:The religions of eastern Asia (IA religionsofeaste00underich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An account of the rise and progress of Mahometanism.djvu]]
* [[Index:Mahommed, &quot;the great Arabian,&quot; (IA mahommedthegreat00townrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The life of Mohammed; founder of the religion of Islam, and of the empire of the Saracens (IA lifeofmohammedfo00bushrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mohammedanism (IA mohammedanism00margiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mohammedanism, a pseudo christianity (IA mohammedanismpse00clyd).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christiaan Snouck Hurgronje - Mohammedanism (1916).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifereligionofma0000mene/ The life and religion of Mahommed]
* [[Index:The Columbian Congress of the Universalist Church - papers and addresses at the Congress, held as a section of the World's Congress Auxiliary of the Columbian Exposition, 1893 (IA columbiancongres00colu).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our word and work for missions; (IA ourwordworkformi00rugg).pdf]]
* [[Index:A handbook of Christian apologetics (IA handbookofchrist00garviala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Unitarianism in America; a history of its origin and development (IA cu31924029477852).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ordination of women to the pastorate in Baptist churches (IA ordinationofwome00hung).pdf]]
* [[Index:Women in the Apostolic church; a critical study of the evidence in the New Testament for the prominence of women in early Christianity (IA womeninapostolic00allwrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/theplaceofwomeni00unknuoft/ The Place of Women in the Church]
* [https://archive.org/details/womaninpulpit00will/ Women in the Pulpit]
* [https://archive.org/details/minhaj_al-talibin_english/ Minhaj Al-Talibin]
* [[Index:Development of Muslim theology, jurisprudence, and constitutional theory (IA cu31924029159691).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/traditionsofisla0000alfr/ The Traditions of Islam]
* [https://archive.org/details/muhammadinhadees0000abul/ Muhammad in the Hadees]
* [https://archive.org/details/amanualofthelead00tisduoft/ A manual of the leading Muhammadan objections to Christianity]
* [https://archive.org/details/theoriginalsourc00tisduoft/ The original sources of the Qur'ân]
* [[Index:The sword of Islam (IA swordofislam00woll).pdf]]
* [[Index:The spirit of Islam; or, The life and teachings of Mohammed (IA spiritofislamorl00alisrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Moslem seeker after God - showing Islam at its best in the life and teaching of al-Ghazali, mystic and theologian of the eleventh century (IA moslemseekeraft00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Moslem doctrine of God; an essay on the character and attributes of Allah according to the Koran and orthodox tradition (IA moslemdoctrineof00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Samaritan Pentateuch- the story of a survival among the sects (IA samaritanpentate00bart).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/samaritanstheirh00gast/ The Samaritans : their history, doctrines and literature]
* [[Index:The Samaritans, the earliest Jewish sect; their history, theology and literature (IA cu31924028585929).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/samaritanstheirt00thomuoft/ The Samaritans: their testimony to the religion of Israel]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29351765/ An Account of the Rise and Progress of Mahometanism]
* [[Index:The book of Yahweh (The Yahwist Bible) - fragments from the primitive document in seven early books of the Old Testament (IA cu31924029285661).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lecturesonmodern00bart/ Lectures on Modern Universalism]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofopinion00beec/ History of opinions on the scriptural doctrine of retribution]
* [https://archive.org/details/mysteryhidfromag00chau_0/ The Mystery Hid from Ages and Generations]
* [[Index:Sermons in vindication of Universalism...in reply to &quot;Lectures on Universalism&quot;; (IA sermonsinvindica00mors).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our new departure; (IA ournewdeparture00broo).pdf]]
* [[Index:Universalism as it is; or, Text book of modern universalism in America (IA universalismasit00hatfrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The plain guide to Universalism - designed to lead inquirers to the belief of that doctrine, and believers to the practice of it (IA plainguidetouniv00whitrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Handbook of Christian symbolism (IA handbookofchrist00auds).pdf]]
* [[Index:Bible manual. Introductory course on the Bible, for teachers training classes and Bible classes (IA biblemanualintro00kram).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofopinion00beec/ History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Future Retribution]
* [[Index:Over the river- (IA overriver00thayiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/originhistoryofd00thay_0/ The origin and history of the doctrine of endless punishment]
* [https://archive.org/details/theologyofuniver00thay/ Theology of Universalism]
* [[index:An examination of the doctrine of future retribution (IA examinationofdoc00ball).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christianity against infidelity.. (IA christianityagai00thay).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Bible class assistant, or Scriptural guide for Sunday schools.. (IA bibleclassassist00thay).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/elevensermonswhi00ball/ The eleven sermons which were preached]
* [[Index:The Christian universalist (IA christianunivers00mitc).pdf]]
* [[Index:Bible proofs of universal salvation.. (IA bibleproofsofuni00hans).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ancient history of universalism, from the time of the apostles to its condemnation in the fifth general council, A. D. 553 (IA ancienthistoryof00ball 1).pdf]], 2nd Edition, 1842
* [[Index:Universalism, the prevailing doctrine of the Christian church during its first five hundred years; with authorities and extracts (IA universalismpre00hans).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient history of universalism - from the time of the apostles, to the fifth general council - with an appendix, tracing the doctrine to the Reformation (IA ancienthistoryof00ball 0).pdf]], Boston Reprint, 1872
* [[Index:The divine government (IA divinegovernment00smit).pdf]], 5th Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/restorationofall00whit/ The restoration of all things]
* [https://archive.org/details/helptotheunlearn00trimuoft/ A help to the unlearned in the study of the Holy Scriptures]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Roman Breviary Bute 1908 - vol. 4.djvu]]
* [[Index:A critical exposition of the popular Jihád.pdf]]
* [[Index:Te Ika a Maui, or, New Zealand and its inhabitants - with the geology, natural history, productions, and climate of the country, etc. (IA teikamauiornewze1855rich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Polynesian Mythology by George Grey (polynesianmythol00greyuoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:Myths And Songs From The South Pacific (IA mythsandsongsfro013889mbp).pdf]]
* [[Index:Legends of Ma-ui-a demi god of Polynesia (IA legendsofmauiade00west).pdf]]
* [[Index:Creation myths of primitive America - in relation to the religious history and mental development of mankind (IA creationmyths00curtrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hawaiian legends of volcanoes (mythology) (IA hawaiianlegendso01west).pdf]]
* [[Index:Legends of gods and ghosts (Hawaiian mythology).djvu]]
* [[Index:The legends and myths of Hawaii - the fables and folk-lore of a strange people (IA legendsmythsofha00kala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Pele and Hiiaka; a myth from Hawaii (IA pelehiiakamythfr00emeriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hawaiian antiquities (Moolelo Hawaii) (IA hawaiianantiquit00malorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Unwritten literature of Hawaii; the sacred songs of the hula (IA cu31924026916415).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient Jewish proverbs (IA ancientjewishpro00cohe).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Babylonian Talmud- Tractate Berakot; translated into English for the first time, with introduction, commentary, glossary and indices (IA babyloniantalmud00coheiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sacred cosmogony; or, Primitive revelation demonstrated by the harmony of the facts of the Mosaic history of the creation, with the principles of general science (IA sacredcosmogonyo00sori).pdf]]
* [[Index:A short survey of the literature of rabbinical and mediæval Judaism (IA cu31924029285371).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Preaching of Islam, by T. W. Arnold; 1935.djvu]]
* [[Index:The religion of Islám (IA religionofislm00kleirich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/originsofdruzepe00hitt/ The origins of the Druze people and religion]
* [https://archive.org/details/essaysonsubjects01wrig/ Essays on subjects connected with the literature, popular superstitions, and history of England in the Middle Ages, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/essaysonsubjects02wrig/ Essays on subjects connected with the literature, popular superstitions, and history of England in the Middle Ages, Volume 2]
* [[Index:A contribution to the comparative study of the medieval visions of heaven and hell (IA contributiontoco01beck).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demon possession and allied themes; being an inductive study of phenomena of our own times (IA demonpossessiona00neviiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Devil Worship.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/heavenhellincomp0000kohl/ Heaven and hell in comparative religion]
* [https://archive.org/details/diabolologyperso1890jewe/ Diabolology]
* [[Index:The Book of the Goetia (Mathers-Crowley, 1904).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Key of Solomon the king (Clavicula Salomonis) (IA b24884431).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lesserkeyofsolom00dela/ The Lesser Key of Solomon]
* [[Index:Irish witchcraft and demonology (IA irishwitchcraftd00seymrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demonology and devil-lore (IA demonologydevill00conw).pdf]]
* [[Index:Demonology and devil-lore (IA demonologydevill00conw2).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/storyofworldswor00dobbuoft/ Story of the World's Worship]
* [https://archive.org/details/moonlore00harl/ Moon Lore]
* [[Index:Witch-Cult in Western Europe (1921).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/womansshareinpri00maso/ Woman's Share in Primitive Culture]
* [[Index:Germanic origins (IA germanicorigins00gumm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Woman, church and state- a historical account of the status of woman through the Christian ages- with reminiscences of matriarchate - (IA womanchurchstate00gagerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Golden Bough (1922).djvu]]
* [[Index:Myths and myth-makers- old tales and superstitions interpreted by comparative mythology (IA mythsandmythmake00fiskiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Researches in prehistoric and protohistoric comparative philology, mythology, and archæology, in connection with the origin of culture in America and the Accad or Sumerian families (IA researchesinpreh00clar).pdf]]
* [[Index:The material culture and social institutions of the simpler peoples; an essay in correlation (IA materialcultures00hobhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the science of comparative mythology and folklore (IA cu31924029075328).pdf]]
* [[Index:Fecundity, fertility, sterility, and allied topics (IA cu31924030410801).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Fecundity, fertility, sterility and allied topics (IA b21778176).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:The Catholic's ready answer; a popular vindication of Christian beliefs and practices against the attacks of modern criticism (IA catholicsreadyan00hill).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/commentaryonbibl00peak/ A commentary on the Bible]
* [[Index:The Bible and astronomy; (IA bibleastronomy00kurt).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sunloreofallages00olco/ Sun Lore of All Ages]
* [[Index:An account of the life and writings of S. Irenæus (IA accountoflifewri00beav).pdf]]
* [[Index:Heresy and Chistian doctrine (IA heresychistiando00pres).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/observationsonhe0000whit/ Observations on heresy and orthodoxy]
* [https://archive.org/details/historicalviewof00mcfa/ An historical view of heresies and vindication of the primitive fait]
* [[Index:The gnostic heresies of the first and second centuries (IA gnosticheresieso00mansrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Aryan sun-myths the origin of religions; (IA aryansunmythsori00titcrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mosaicall philosophy - grounded upon the essentiall truth or eternal sapience (IA mosaicallphiloso00flud).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of four-footed beasts and serpents. (IA historyoffourfoo00tops).pdf]]
* [[Index:The historie of foure-footed beastes (1607).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/immortalityunsee0000unse/ Immortality and the Unseen World]
* [[Index:Angelology.. (IA angelology00clay).pdf]]
* [[Index:Angelology-.. (IA angelology00mcca).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA b30330610).pdf]], Blagraves astrological practice of physick
* [[Index:Anatomical texts of the earlier middle ages; a study in the transmission of culture (1927).djvu]]
* [[Index:Books from the Biodiversity Heritage Library (IA mobot31753000703782).pdf]], Paradisi in sole paradisus terrestris
* [[Index:The philosophy of witchcraft (IA philosophyofwitc00mitciala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA b30529906).pdf]], The compleat wizzard
* [[Index:A commentary on the Holy Bible (1909) (IA commentaryonholy01dumm).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Christian Book of concord, or, Symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church; comprising the three chief symbols, the unaltered Augsburg confession, the Apology (IA christianbookofc00luth).pdf]], 1st edition, 1851
* [[Index:The Christian Book of concord = or, Symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church - comprising the three chief symbols, the unaltered Augsburg confession, the Apology (IA christianbookofc00henk).pdf]], 2nd edition 1854
* [[Index:Books from the Library of Congress (IA theologicalpropd03scha).pdf]], Theological propædeutic; a general introduction to the study of theology
* [[Index:A Complete System of Christian Theology (Wakefield, 1869, completesystemof0000wake).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Queen of Sheba &amp; her only son Menyelek (IA queenofshebahero00budgrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Some answered questions; collected and tr. from the Persian of 'Abdu'l-Baha, by Laura Clifford Barney (IA someansweredques00abdurich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Hujajul Beheyyeh (The Behai proofs) (IA hujajulbeheyyeht00abua).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sevenvalleysreve00bah/ The Seven Valleys]
* [[Index:Tablet of tarazat, Tablet of the world, Words of Paradise, Tablet of Tajalleyat, The glad tidings; (IA tabletoftarazatt00baharich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/promulgationofun01abdu/ The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/promulgationofun0002abdu/ The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Volume 2]
* [[Index:The Moslem doctrine of God; an essay on the character and attributes of Allah according to the Koran and orthodox tradition (IA moslemdoctrineof00zwem).pdf]]
* [[Index:Development of Muslim theology, jurisprudence, and constitutional theory (IA cu31924029159691).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Samaritans, the earliest Jewish sect; their history, theology and literature (IA cu31924028585929).pdf]]
* [[Index:The theology and ethics of the Hebrews (IA theologyethicsof00duffiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/thesixdaysofcrea00lewsuoft/ The Six Days of Creation]
* [[Index:The chemical history of the six days of creation (IA cu31924029284399).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/patriarchalageor00smituoft/ The patriarchal age; or, The history and religion of mankind]
* [[Index:The patriarchal age; (IA patriarchalage00phil).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/immortalityunsee0000unse/ Immortality and the unseen world; a study in Old Testament religion]
* [[Index:The unity of the book of Genesis (IA unityofbookofge00gree).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Book of Jubilees, translated from the Ethiopic (IA cu31924076045669).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Jubilees. Robert Henry Charles. 1902 (IA bookofjubileesor00char).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Book of Jubilees. Robert Charles, George Box. 1917 (IA bookofjubileesor01char).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Exodus, with introduction and notes (IA bookofexoduswith00mcnerich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bookofgenesisnot00drivuoft/ The Book of Genesis; with introduction and notes by S.R. Driver]
* [[Index:The legends of Genesis (IA legendsofgenesis00gunk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of Genesis in the light of modern knowledge (IA bookofgenesisinl01worc).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/worldbeforeabrah00mitcuoft/ The World before Abraham, according to Genesis I-XI]
* [[Index:The creation - a commentary on the first five chapters of the book of Genesis (IA creationcommenta00luth).pdf]]
* [[Index:The genesis of Genesis; (IA genesisofgenesis00bacorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early traditions of Genesis (IA earlytraditionso00gordrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/teachingvaluesof00stri/ Teaching values of the legends and myths of Genesis]]
* [[Index:The composition of the book of Genesis (IA compositionofbo00frip).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes on the book of Genesis (IA notesonbookofgen00mackrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Discourses on the book of Genesis (IA discoursesonbook00henriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indications of the first book of Moses, called Genesis (IA indicationsoffir00latc).pdf]]
* [[Index:Outline studies in Genesis (IA outlinestudiesin00russ).pdf]]
* [[Index:Studies on the book of Genesis (IA studiesonbookof00prat).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early narratives of Genesis; a brief introduction to the study of Genesis I-XI (IA earlynarrativeso00rylerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes, critical and explanatory, on the book of Genesis ... (IA notescriticalexp00unse).pdf]]
* [[Index:Creation and the fall; a defence and exposition of the first three chapters of Genesis (IA creationfalldefe00macd).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/expositionofthre00glea/ An exposition of the three first chapters of Genesis, explained and improved]
* [[Index:The historical value of the first eleven chapters of Genesis; with some discussion of the new criticism (IA historicalvalueo00beac).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mosaic cosmogony. Literal translation of first chapter of Genesis, with annotations and rationalia (IA cu31924031786928).pdf]]
* [[Index:The first chapter of Genesis as the rock foundation for science and religion (IA cu31924031224789).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/notesobservation00scot/ Notes and observations upon the three first chapters of Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/acriticalandexe01murpgoog/ A critical and exegetical commentary on the book of Genesis, 1st Edition, Edinburgh, 1863]
* [[Index:Genesis I-II- (IA genesisiii00grot).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1880
* [[Index:Genesis I-II- an essay on the Bible narrative of creation (IA genesisiiiessayo01grot).pdf]], 2nd Edition, 1881
* [[Index:The tabernacle - or the Gospel according to Moses (IA tabernacleorgosp00junk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Tabernacle; its history and structure (IA tabernacleitshis00cald).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/primevalrevelati00jone/ Primeval Revelation: Studies in Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/messagesformorni00trum/ Messages for the Morning Watch: Devotional Studies in Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/beginningsofhebr00cole/ The Beginnings of the Hebrew People: Studies in the Book of Genesis]
* [https://archive.org/details/genesisorfirstbo0000lang/ Genesis, or, the first book of Moses, together with a general theological and homiletical introduction to the Old Testament]
* [[Index:The myths of Israel, the ancient book of Genesis with analysis and explanation of its composition (IA mythsofisraelanc00fisk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The ages before Moses- a series of lectures on the book of Genesis (IA cu31924029289737).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Jewish Interpretation of the Book of Genesis (Morgenstern, 1919, jewishinterpreta00morg).pdf]]
* [[Index:A commentary upon the first book of Moses called Genesis (IA cuponfi00patr).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [[Index:A commentary upon the first book of Moses, called Genesis (IA comfi00patr).pdf]], 2nd edition, missing pages
* [[Index:A companion to the book of Genesis (IA companiontobook00turn).pdf]]
* [[Index:The law of Moses (IA lawofmoses00navi).pdf]]
* The covenant of nature made with Adam described {{esl|https://archive.org/details/covenantofnature00pync/}}
* [[Index:The history and philosophy of Judaism (IA historyphilosoph00shawiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Intermediate types among primitive folk- a study in social evolution (IA cu31924021843986).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christianity and sex problems (IA cu31924021843259).pdf]]
* [[Index:Source book for social origins; ethnological materials, psychological standpoint, classified and annotated bibliographies for the interpretation of savage society (IA sourcebookforsoc00thomiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sex and society; studies in the social psychology of sex (IA sexsocietystudie00thom).pdf]]
* [[Index:Man and woman (electronic resource) - a study of human secondary sexual characters (IA b20410761).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to systematic philosophy (IA introductiontosy00marv).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to philosophy (IA introductiontoph00flet).pdf]]
* [[Index:Book of Mormon (1830, bookofmormonacco1830smit).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Holy scriptures (IA holyscriptures00smit).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indago astrologica- or a brief and modest enquiry into some principal points of astrology (IA b30333519).pdf]]
* [[Index:An encyclopaedia of occultism a compendium of information on the occult sciences, occult personalities, psychic science, magic, demonology, spiritism and mysticism.djvu]]
* [[Index:The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu]]
* [[Index:Summa Theologica (2nd rev. ed.) - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The abridgment of Christian divinitie.djvu]]
* [[Index:Alcoran of Mahomet 1649.djvu]]
* [[Index:A dictionary of Islam.djvu]]
* [[Index:Thomas Patrick Hughes - Notes on Muhammadanism - 2ed. (1877).djvu]]
* [[Index:The discouerie of witchcraft (1584) (IA b30337367).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Mirror of Alchimy (1597, mirrorofalchimy00baco).djvu]]
* [[Index:The history of Witchcraft and demonology.djvu]]
* [[Index:Three Books of Occult Philosophy (De Occulta Philosophia) (1651).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Magus, or Celestial Intelligencer - Barrett - 1801.djvu]]
* [[Index:St Augustine Of the Citie of God.pdf]]
* [[Index:1582 Rhemes New Testament.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Holy Bible (LSV).pdf]]
* [[Index:Batman upon Bartolome.djvu]]
* [[Index:An analysis of the Egyptian mythology- to which is subjoined, a critical examination of the remains of Egyptian chronology (IA b29350074).pdf]]
* [[Index:Phenomenology of Mind vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Phenomenology of Mind vol 2.djvu]]

====Economic/Social studies/History/Law====
* [[Index:Problems of readjustment after the war (IA problemsofreadju00newy).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of government organization and management (IA principlesofgove00clev).pdf]]
* [[Index:The new spirit of the new army; a message to the &quot;service flag&quot; homes (IA newspiritofnewar00odel).pdf]]
* [[Index:The church in America; a study of the present condition and future prospects of American Protestantism (IA churchinamericas01brow).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/middletownstudyi0000lynd/ Middletown: a study in American culture]
* [[Index:Organized self-government (IA organizedselfgov00daws).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/jewishselfgovern00fink/ Jewish self-government in the middle ages]
* [https://archive.org/details/citiesinevolutio00gedduoft/ Cities in Evolution]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanpublicli0000unse/ The American Public Library and the Diffusion of Knowledge]
* [[Index:Co-operative housekeeping; how not to do it and how to do it (IA cooperativehouse00peir).pdf]]
* [[Index:Akbar and the rise of the Mughal empire; (IA akbarriseofmugha00mallrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Akbar, emperor of India, a picture of life and customs from the sixteenth century (IA akbaremperorofin00garb).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ayeen Akbery; or, The Institutes of the Emperor Akber (IA ayeenakberyorins02abua).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ayeen Akbery; or, The Institutes of the Emperor Akber (IA ayeenakberyorins01abua).pdf]]
* [[Index:Local government in Francia and England- a comparison of the local administration and jurisdiction of the Carolingian empire with that of the West Saxon kingdom (IA localgovernmenti00camhiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The making of the English constitution, 449-1485 (IA makingofenglishc00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The story of the shire, being the lore, history and evolution of English county institutions (IA storyofshirebein00hack).pdf]]
* [[Index:The polity of the ancient Hebrews (IA polityofancienth00sulzrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Am ha-aretz - the ancient Hebrew parliament, a chapter in the constitutional history of ancient Israel (IA cu31924089135754).pdf]], 2nd Printing, 1910
* [[Index:The Am ha-aretz, the ancient Hebrew parliament, a chapter in the constitutional history of ancient Israel (IA amhaaretzancient00sulziala).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/revolutionbyreas0000stra/ Revolution by Reason, an account of the financial proposals submitted by Oswald Mosley at the 33d Independent Labour Party Conference]
* [[Index:The story of rapid transit (IA storyofrapidtran00willrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Interborough rapid transit; the New York subway, its construction and equipment (IA interboroughrapi00interich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ethnologyofakamb00hobluoft/ Ethnology of A-Kamba and other East African Tribes]
* [https://archive.org/details/africapastpresen00mois/ Africa: Past and Present]
* [https://archive.org/details/soulofbantusympa00will_0/ The Soul of the Bantu]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofislando00copl/ A History of the Island of Madagascar]
* [https://archive.org/details/madagascarhistor01oliv/ Madagascar, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/madagascarhistor02oliv/ Madagascar, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/b31516993/ The Antananarivo annual and Madagascar magazine]
* [[Index:The history of Dahomy, an inland kingdom of Africa (IA b28764808).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Visigothic Code.djvu]]
* [[Index:A manual of elementary law (IA cu31924018811376).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/countrytownstudy00andeuoft/ The Country Town]
* [[Index:Principles of American state administration, by John Mabry Mathews. (IA principlesofamer00math).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lectures on Slavonic law, being the Ilchester lectures for the year 1900; (IA cu31924022021566).pdf]]
* [[index:Ideals of America; (IA idealsofamerica00city).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/urbancommunityse00burgrich/ The Urban Community]
* [https://archive.org/details/chicagoexperimen00smit/ Chicago, an Experiment in Social Science Research]
* [https://archive.org/details/howesneweracivic00howe/ Howe's new era civics]
* [https://archive.org/details/safeguardingamer00atwoiala Safeguarding american ideals]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanpolitica00merriala/ American political ideas; studies in the development of American political thought 1865-1917]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanthoughtf00rilerich/ American thought: from Puritanism to pragmatism]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924007488954/ The foundations of American foreign policy]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924031446465/ Liberty, Union and Democracy, The National Ideas of America]
* [https://archive.org/details/nationalgovernme00kimbrich/ The national government of the United States]
* [https://archive.org/details/sociallawsagenci00unse/ Social laws and agencies of North Carolina]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanidealsot0000unse/ American ideals, and other essays, social and political]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanismwhati00hillrich/ Americanism, what it is]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanizationp00talb/ Americanization]
* [https://archive.org/details/americanismwhati00hill/ Americanism, what it is]
* [https://archive.org/details/ourdualgovernmen00broo/ Our dual government, studies in Americanism for young people]
* [https://archive.org/details/everydayamerican00canbrich/ Everyday Americans]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofamerican00hopk/ A manual of American ideas]
* [https://archive.org/details/americandemocrac01form/ The American democracy, 1920]
* [https://archive.org/details/americandemocrac00form/ The American Democracy, 1921, 2nd Printing]
* [https://archive.org/details/citizensguideorm00gibs/ The citizens' guide]
* [[Index:Community buildings for industrial towns (IA communitybuildin00comm).pdf]]
* [[index:Rural and small community recreation. Suggestions for utilizing the resources of rural communities; (IA ruralsmallcommun00commrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A course in citizenship and patriotism (IA courseincitizens00cabo).pdf]]
* [[Index:A selected bibliography and syllabus of the history of the South, 1584-1876 (IA selectedbibliogr00boydrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The demonstration work; Dr. Seaman A. Knapp's contribution to civilization (IA demonstrationwor00martrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Party organization and machinery (IA partyorgmachiner00macy).pdf]]
* [[Index:A decade of Negro extension work, 1914-1924 (IA decadeofnegroext72mart).pdf]]
* [[Index:Educational resources of village and rural communities (IA educationalresou00hart).pdf]]
* [[Index:The validity of American ideals (IA validityofameric01math).pdf]]
* [[Index:The church and the community (IA cu31924014043362).pdf]]
* [[Index:Social ideals of a free church (IA socialidealsoffr00forbiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Christian Americanization; a task for the churches (IA brookschristiana00broo).pdf]]
* [[Index:America via the neighborhood (IA americavianeighb00danirich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Our neighborhood; good citizenship in rural communities (IA cu31924080075959).pdf]]
* [[Index:The free city; a book of neighborhood (IA freecitybookofne00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Neighborhood entertainments (IA cu31924014493542).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rural community organization (IA ruralcommunityor00haye).pdf]]
* [[Index:A community center; what it is and how to organize it (IA communitycenterw00jack).pdf]]
* [[Index:A community church; the story of a minister's experience which led him from the church militant to the church democratic (IA communitychurchs00jackrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Community organization (IA communityorganiz00hartiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/socialservicefor00ward_0/ Social Services for Young People]
* [[Index:Pupil self-government, its theory and practice (IA pupilselfgovernm00cron).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/communityorganiz00stei/ Community Organization: A Study of its Current Theory and Practice]
* [[Index:The little democracy, a text-book on community organization (IA littledemocracyt00clar).pdf]]
* [[Index:The country church and community cooperation (IA countrychurchcom00israrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Local and central government; a comparative study of England, France, Prussia, and the United States (IA localcentralgove00ashl).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal administration in Germany as seen in the government of a typical Prussian city, Halle a-S (IA municipaladminis00jamerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of Prussian administration (IA principlesofprus00jamerich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/governmentadmini0000blac/ The Government and Administration of Germany]
* [[Index:The government of Wyoming - the history, constitution and administration of affairs (IA governmentofwyom00heba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The principles of the administrative law of the United States (IA principlesofadmi00good).pdf]]
* [[Index:Statesman's handbook for Russia (IA statesmanshandbo00russrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warrussiangovern0000unse/ The war and the Russian government. The central government]
* [[Index:Modern customs and ancient laws of Russia; being the Ilchester lectures for 1889-90; (IA cu31924014085983).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lancasteryorkcen01rams/ Lancaster and York, Volume 1]
* [[Index:Lancaster and York; a century of English history (A.D. 1399-1485) (IA cu31924088011436).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:The houses of Lancaster and York, with the conquest and loss of France; (IA housesoflancaste01gair).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warsofroses00mowauoft/ The Wars of the Roses]
* [[Index:Wales and the wars of the Roses (IA waleswarsofroses00evanrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:English towns in the wars of the Roses (IA englishtownsinwa00wins).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal government in Ireland - medieval &amp; modern (IA municipalgovernm00webbrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/mindfaceofbolshe0000unse/ The Mind and Face of Bolshevism]
* [[Index:Men of the old stone age, their environment, life and art (IA menofoldstoneage00osborich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The English in the middle ages; from the Norman usurpation to the days of the Stuarts. Their mode of life, dress, arms, occupations, and amusements. As illustrated in the British Museum (IA englishinmiddlea00hodg).pdf]]
* [[Index:Arms and armour in antiquity and the middle ages - also a descriptive notice of modern weapons (IA b24865990).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/armourweapons00ffouuoft/ Armour &amp; Weapons]
* [https://archive.org/details/treatiseonancien00grosrich/ A treatise on ancient armour and weapons]
* [[Index:An illustrated history of arms and armour from the earliest period to the present time (IA illustratedhisto00demmrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Germany in the later Middle Ages, 1200-1500 (IA germanyinlatermi00stub).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ayliffejuriscanonici/ Parergon Juris Canonici Anglicani]
* [[Index:The Effects of Civilisation on the People in European States.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/developmentofeur0000smit/ The Development of European Law]
* [[Index:The Art of War in the Middle Ages (Chadwick, 1885, artofwarinmiddle00omanuoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:The History of the Isle of Man (1780, historyofisleofm00dubl).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 1 (1101-1377).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 2 (1377-1509).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 3 (1509-47).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 4, Part 1 (1547-84).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 4, Part 2 (1586-1625).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 5 (1628-80).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 6 (1685-94).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 7 (1695-1701).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 8 (1702-7).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 9 (1708-13).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm (Alphabetical Index).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Statutes of the Realm (Chronological Index).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Laws and Acts of Parliament of Scotland.djvu]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the middle ages (375-814) (IA introductiontost00emer).pdf]]
* [[Index:Villainage in England; essays in English mediaeval history (IA cu31924024908356).pdf]]
* [[Index:Law and politics in the middle ages, with a synoptic table of sources (IA cu31924030432532).pdf]]
* [[Index:De republica Anglorum. The maner of gouernement or policie of the realme of England, compiled by the honorable sir Thomas Smyth .. (IA ita-bnc-mag-00002562-001).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Lexicon of Medieval Nordic Law (OBP.0188, 2020).pdf]]
* [[Index:Runic and heroic poems of the old Teutonic peoples.djvu]]
* [[Index:The riddles of the Exeter book (IA riddlesofexeterb00tupp).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Law of the Westgoths - tr. Bergin - 1906.djvu]]
* [[Index:Laws of the Earliest English Kings.djvu]]
* [[Index:The sources of the law of England - an historical introduction to the study of English law (IA cu31924021687227).pdf]]
* [[Index:George Philips, Lex parliamentaria (1st ed, 1690).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of economics (IA historyofeconomi00macliala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indian currency and finance (IA indiancurrencyfi00keynuoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:An inquiry into the various systems of political economy- their advantages and disadvantages- and the theory most favourable to the increase of national wealth (IA inquiryintovario00gani).pdf]]
* [[Index:National system of political economy (IA nationalsystemof00list).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of political economy; or, Elementary view of the manner in which the wealth of nations is produced, increased, distributed, and consumed (IA introductiontost00boilrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Theory of Moral Sentiments.pdf]]
* [[Index:Treatise on Probability, Keynes, 1921.djvu]]
* [[Index:Monasticon Anglicanum, or, The history of the ancient abbies, and other monasteries, hospitals, cathedral and collegiate churches in England and Wales. With divers French, Irish (IA monasticonanglic00dugd).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of Gothic architecture (IA introductiontost00park 9).pdf]], 1st edition
* [[Index:Architecture; an introduction to the history and theory of the art of building (IA architectureintr00leth 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Race distinctions in American Law (IA racedistinctions00stepiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The law of city planning and zoning (IA lawofcityplannin00williala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The improvement of towns and cities - or, The practical basis of civic aesthetics (IA improvementoftow00robi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern civic art - or, The city made beautiful (IA moderncivicartor00robi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:A decade of civic development (IA decadeofcivicdev00zueb).pdf]]
* [[Index:City planning, with special reference to the planning of streets and lots (IA cu31924064909660).pdf]]
* [[Index:Modern city planning and maintenance (IA moderncityplanni00koes).pdf]]
* [[Index:City planning; a series of papers presenting the essential elements of a city plan (IA cityplanningseri00noleiala).pdf]]

=====Labor, Socialism, Anarchism, Communist, Feminism, LGBTQ+=====
* [[Index:Americanism; a world menace (IA americanismworld00coly).pdf]]
* [[Index:Emma Goldman - The Social Significance of the Modern Drama - 1914.djvu]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx and modern socialism (IA karlmarxmodernso00salt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx; his life and work (IA cu31924002310864).pdf]], John Spargo, 1912
* [https://archive.org/details/karlmarxhislifew00rhle/ Karl Marx; his life and work, Otto Ruhle, 1929]
* [[Index:The old freedom (IA oldfreedom00neilrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A History of Socialism.pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/marxianeconomics00unte/ Marxian Economics]
* [https://archive.org/details/mindfaceofbolshe0000unse/ The Mind and Face of Bolshevism]
* [[Index:The revolt of democracy (IA revoltofdemocrac00wallrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/socialismofchris00bierrich/ Socialism of Christ]
* [[Index:German Social Democracy - Six Lectures by Bertrand Russell.djvu]]
* [[Index:Karl Marx - Wage Labor and Capital - tr. Harriet E. Lothrop (1902).djvu]]
* [[Index:The ego and his own (IA egohisown00stiriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ten blind leaders of the blind - by Arthur M. Lewis (IA tenblindleaderso00lewirich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Egoists, a book of supermen- (IA egoistsbookofsu00hune).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/philosophyofegoi00walk/ The Philosophy of Egoism]
* [[Index:Anarchism (Eltzbacher, 1908 English translation).djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Socialist Review (1900-1918), Vol. 1, Issue 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Jungle (1906).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anarchy and Anarchists (Schaack, 1889).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anarchism; a criticism and history of the anarchist theory (IA anarchismcritici00zenkiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Anarchism and socialism (IA anarchismsociali00plek).pdf]]
* [[Index:Trade unionism in the United States (IA cu31924013988195).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of trade unionism in the United States (IA historyoftradeun00perliala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/theoryoflabormov0000seli/ A Theory of the Labor Movement]
* [[Index:Communism in America; (IA communisminameri00jamerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA communistsocieties00nordrich).pdf]], The Communistic Societies of the United States
* [https://archive.org/details/leftwingunionism/ Left Wing Unionism]
* [[Index:Jay Lovestone - Blood and Steel (1923)).djvu]]
* ''History of American Socialisms'' {{esl|https://archive.org/details/historyofamerica00innoye/page/14/mode/2up}}
* [[Index:On labour, its wrongful claims and rightful dues, its actual present and possible future (IA onlabouritswrong00thor).pdf]]
* [[Index:Voluntary socialism; a sketch (IA voluntarysociali00tandrich).pdf]], 2nd edition
* [https://archive.org/details/voluntarysocial01tandgoog/ Voluntary Socialism, 1st Edition]
* [[Index:Arkady Joseph Sack - The Birth of the Russian Democracy (1918).djvu]]
* [[Index:The struggle for existence (IA struggleforexist00millrich).pdf]], First Edition
* [[Index:Direct action (IA directaction00mell).pdf]]

=====Racism, Antisemitism, National Socialism, KKK, Nationalism, Right, etc.=====
* [[Index:The revolt against civilization; the menace of the under man (IA cu31924016895975).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/reddragonblacksh00phil/ The &quot;Red&quot; Dragon and the Black Shirts]
* [https://archive.org/details/pragmaticrevolti00elli/ The pragmatic revolt in politics]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolinipopecom1501mcca/ Mussolini and the Pope]
* [https://archive.org/details/popeormussolini0000hear/ Pope or Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofbenitomuss00sarf/ The Life of Benito Mussolini, 6th Printing, UK Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofbenitomuss0000mang/ The Life of Benito Mussolini, 5th Printing, US Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/isantichristatha0000smit/ Is the Antichrist at hand? What of Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/historicalcauses00trevuoft/ The historical causes of the present state of affairs in Italy]
* [[Index:L. W. - Fascism, Its History and Significance (1924).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/makingfasciststa0000herb/ Making the Fascist State]
* [https://archive.org/details/the-need-for-fascism-in-great-britain The Need for Fascism in Great Britain]
* [https://archive.org/details/fascistdictators0001gaet/ The Fascist Dictatorship in Italy]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolininewital0000alex/ Mussolini and the New Italy]
* [https://archive.org/details/mussolini0000unse/ Mussolini as Revealed in His Political Speeches]
* [[Index:Behold Our New Empire Mussolini (IA BeholdOurNewEmpireMussolini).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/1928UniversalAspectsOfFascism/ The Universal Aspects of Fascism, 1st Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/dli.ernet.5084/ The Universal Aspects of Fascism, 2nd Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/italytoday0000foxf/ Italy To-day]
* [https://archive.org/details/thetheoryofminda00gentuoft/ The Theory of Mind as a Pure Act]
* [https://archive.org/details/blackmagic00kenn/ Black Magic]
* [https://archive.org/details/pedigreeoffascis0000alin/ The Pedigree of Fascism]
* [https://archive.org/details/strenuousitalyso00gayh/ Strenuous Italy]
* [[Index:Sociology for the South - or, The failure of free society (IA sociologyforsout00fitz).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cannibals all! or, Slaves without masters (IA cannibalsallorsl00fitz).pdf]]
* [[Index:Negro-Mania- Being an Examination of the Falsely Assumed Equality of the Various Races of Men (IA DKC0100).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/outlawsdiary01tormuoft An Outlaw's Diary, Volume 1: Revolution]
* [https://archive.org/details/outlawsdiary02tormuoft An Outlaw's Diary, Volume 2: The Commune]
* [[Index:Meccania, the super-state (IA meccaniasupersta00greg).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/pangermanleague10000wert/ The Pan-German League]
* [[Index:The pan-Germanic doctrine; being a study of German political aims and aspirations (IA pangermanicdoctr00harrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Pan-germanism, its plans for German expansion in the world (IA pangermanismitsp00andlrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Antisemitism, its history and causes (IA antisemitismitsh00lazaiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/thenegroabeastorintheimageofgod/ &quot;The Negro A Beast&quot;, Or &quot;In The Image Of God&quot;]
* [https://archive.org/details/americannegrodependentdefectivedelinquent/ The American Negro]
* [https://archive.org/details/negroamenacetoamericancivilization/ The Negro]
* [https://archive.org/details/negrosouthernersproblem/ The Negro: The Southernor's Problem]
* [https://archive.org/details/negrocriminality_202001/ Negro Criminality]
* [https://archive.org/details/sexualcrimesamongsouthernnegroes/ Sexual Crimes among the Southern Negroes]
* [https://archive.org/details/whitesupremacyandnegrosubordination/ White Supremacy and Negro Subordination]
* [https://archive.org/details/slaveryasitrela00priegoog/ Slavery, as it Relates to the Negro]
* [[Index:Bible Defence of Slavery.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/TheRiddleOfTheJewsSuccess/ The Riddle of the Jews Success]
* [https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.38804/ Racial Elements Of European History]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:The International Jew - Volume 4.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/italyundermussol0000unse/ Italy under Mussolini]
* [https://archive.org/details/romeordeathstory00beal/ Rome or Death! The Story of Fascism]
* [https://archive.org/details/odon-por.-fascism-1923_202107/ Fascism, Odon Por]
* [https://archive.org/details/fascistmovementi00gorguoft/ The Fascist Movement in Italian Life]
* [[Index:My Autobiography (1928) - by Benito Mussolini.pdf]]
* [[Index:The ravings of a renegade ; being the War essays of Houston Stewart Chamberlain (IA ravingsofrenegad00chamrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/foundationsofnin01cham/ The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century], Volume 1
* [https://archive.org/details/foundationsofnin02cham/ The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century], Volume 2
* [[Index:Decline of the West (Volume 1).djvu]]
* [[Index:Decline of the West (Volume 2).djvu]]
* [[Index:The Decline of the West.pdf]], combined Volume, 1932 edition
* [[Index:The inequality of human races (1915).djvu]]
* [[Index:The moral and intellectual diversity of races - with particular reference to their respective influence in the civil and political history of mankind (IA bub gb uRvNQHqLj0kC).pdf]]
* [[Index:The passing of the great race; or, The racial basis of European history (IA passingofgreatra01gran).pdf]], 4th Edition
* [[Index:The passing of the great race; or, The racial basis of European history (IA cu31924029874330).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Ku Klux Klan (H.H. Wilson Reference Shelf) (IA kukluxklan00john).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Klan unmasked, (IA klanunmasked00simm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Catalogue of Official Robes and Banners - Knights of the Ku Klux Klan Incorporated, Atlanta, Georgia (1925) - Catalogueofoffic00kukl.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Ku Klux klan- a study of the American mind (IA kukluxklanastudy00meck).pdf]]
* [[Index:Papers read at the meeting of Grand dragons, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at their first- annual meet (IA papersreadatmeet01kukl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/authentichistor00davi/ Authentic history, Ku Klux Klan, 1865-1877]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924083530117/ The Ku Klux Klan or Invisible Empire]

==== Ancient Rome/Byzantine Studies/Latin/Classics ====
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924028520728/ Syria as a Roman Province]
* [https://archive.org/details/spainunderromane00bouc/ Spain under the Roman Empire]
* [[Index:The Gracchi, Marius, and Sulla (IA cu31924074596879).pdf]]
* [[Index:Seven Roman statesmen of the later republic- The Gracchi. Sulla. Crassus. Cato. Pompey. Caesar (IA sevenromanstates00oman).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romaneducationfr0000gwyn_n9h9/ Roman education from Cicero to Quintilian]
* [[Index:Manual of classical literature (IA manualofclassica00eschrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofhistoryo00mattuoft/ A manual of the history of Greek and Roman literature]
* [https://archive.org/details/manualofclassica00morr/ A Manual of Classical Literature]
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212877).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 1
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212885).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 2
* [[Index:Roman law in the modern world (IA cu31924021212893).pdf]], 1st Edition, Vol. 3
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern0001unse/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern00sheruoft/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlawinmodern03sheruoft/ Roman Law in the Modern World, 2nd Edition, Vol. 3]
* [[Index:The Roman empire- essays on the constitutional history from the accession of Domitian (81 A. D.) to the retirement of Nicephorus III (1081 A.D.) (IA romanempireessay01bussiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman empire- essays on the constitutional history from the accession of Domitian (81 A. D.) to the retirement of Nicephorus III (1081 A.D.) (IA romanempireessay02bussiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineempirer0000foor/ The Byzantine Empire]
* [[Index:The history of Greece - from its conquest by the crusaders to its conquest by the Turks, and of the empire of Trebizond ; 1204-1461 (IA historyofgreecef00finl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/fastiromanicivil01clinuoft/ Fasti Romani, Vol. 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/fastiromanicivil02clinuoft/ Fasti Romani, Vol. 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/churcheasternemp00toze/ The Church and the Eastern Empire]
* [[Index:Roman society in the last century of the Western empire (IA cu31924028321333).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romansocietyinla0000dill/ roman society in the last century of the western empire, 2nd edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/jurisprudenceofj00ewin/ The Jurisprudence of the Jewish Courts in Egypt]
* [[Index:Some phases of the problem of provincial administration under the Roman republic (IA somephasesofprob00mars).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/phasescorruptio01jollgoog/ Phases of corruption in Roman administration in the last half-century of the Roman republic]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanpoliticalin0000homo_f4f9/ Roman political institutions from city to state]
* [[Index:A history of Rome to 565 A. D. (IA cu31924028286726).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofrometo500boak_0/ A history of Rome to 565 A.D., 2nd Edition, 1929]
* [[Index:A general history of Rome from the foundation of the city to the fall of Augustulus, B.C. 753-A.D. 476 (IA cu31924031259587).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rome- from the fall of the western empire (IA romefromfallofwe00trev).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/studyofcognomina00deanuoft/ A study of the cognomina of soldiers in the Roman legions]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanlegions0000park_q5m2/ The Roman Legions]
* [https://archive.org/details/sourcebookofroma0000munr/ A source book of Roman history]
* [[Index:Was the Roman army provided with medical officers? (electronic resource) (IA b21464625).pdf]]
* [[Index:Infamia- its place in Roman public and private law (IA cu31924021131531).pdf]]
* [[Index:The reorganization of Spain by Augustus (IA reorganization00vannrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/publiclibrariesl00boyduoft/ Public Libraries and Literary Culture in Ancient Rome]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofrome00leigiala/ A History of Rome]
* [https://archive.org/details/greeceunderroman00finluoft/ Greece under the Romans]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineportrai00dieh/ Byzantine Portraits]
* [https://archive.org/details/expressesofconta0000unse/ The Empresses of Constantinople]
* [[Index:Roman public life (IA romanpubliclife00greeiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Arab conquest of Egypt and the last thirty years of the Roman dominion (IA arabconquestofeg00butl).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/jurisprudenceofj00ewin/ The Jurisprudence of the Jewish Courts in Egypt]
* [https://archive.org/details/greekromanfolklo0000hall_x8n7/ Greek and Roman Folklore]
* [[Index:Public lands and agrarian laws of the Roman republic- (IA publiclandsagrar00step).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sixromanlaws00harduoft/ Six Roman Laws]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/twostudiesinlate0000unse/ Two studies in later Roman and Byzantine administration]
* [https://archive.org/details/freshlightonroma0000jone/ Fresh Light on Roman Bureaucracy]
* [https://archive.org/details/christianityroma0000addi/ Christianity and the Roman Empire]
* [[Index:Christianity and the Roman government (IA christianityroma00hardrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The early Christians in Rome (1911).djvu]]
* [[Index:Historical revelations of the relation existing between Christianity and paganism since the disintegration of the Roman Empire (IA historicalrevela00juli).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Christians in Rome (IA christiansinrome00mobe).pdf]]
* [[Index:Woman ; her position and influence in ancient Greece and Rome, and among the early Christians .. (IA womanherposition00donarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The story of the Romans; (IA storyromans00guergoog).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman Africa; an outline of the history of the Roman occupation of North Africa, based chiefly upon inscriptions and monumental remains in that country (IA cu31924028722134).pdf]]
* [[Index:An outline of Greek and Roman history, the result of class room work (IA outlineofgreekro00chad).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/the-illustrated-history-of-rome-and-the-roman-empire-1877/ The Illustrated History of Rome And The Roman Empire]
* [https://archive.org/details/christianitynati00wooduoft/ Christianity and Nationalism in the Later Roman Empire]
* [[Index:The conversion of the Roman empire (IA conversionofrom00meri).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintohi00ihneuoft/ Researches into the history of the Roman constitution]
* [[Index:Traces of Greek philosophy and Roman law in the New Testament (IA cu31924029302423).pdf]]
* [[Index:UPenn-Translations and Reprints-vol6.djvu]]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161302).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161344).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161310).pdf]], Volume 3
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161419).pdf]], Volume 4 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr04greg/ Volume 4 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161351).pdf]], Volume 5 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr05greg/ Volume 5 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161369).pdf]], Volume 6 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityo06greguoft/ Volume 6 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161377).pdf]], Volume 7 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr07greg/ Volume 7 Part 2]
* [[Index:History of the city of Rome in the Middle Ages (IA cu31924082161385).pdf]], Volume 8 Part 1
* [https://archive.org/details/p2historyofcityofr08greg/ Volume 8 Part 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancienttownplan00have/ Ancient Town-planning]
* [[Index:The Ancient City- A Study on the Religion, Laws, and Institutions of Greece and Rome.djvu]]
* [[Index:Physical science in the time of Nero; being a translation of the Quaestiones naturales of Seneca (IA physicalsciencei00seneiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman and the Teuton; a series of lectures delivered before the University of Cambridge (IA romanteutonserie01king).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineartarch00dalt/ Byzantine Art and Archaeology]
* [[Index:The history of Etruria .. (IA historyofetruria01gray).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:The history of Etruria .. (IA historyofetruria02gray).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:The cities and cemeteries of Etruria (IA etruriacitiesand01denniala).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:The cities and cemeteries of Etruria (IA etruriacitiesand02denniala).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:Etruria-Celtica- Etruscan Literature and Antiquities Investigated, in Two Volumes, Vol. I (IA dli.granth.53608).pdf]], Volume 1
* [https://archive.org/details/etruriacelticaet02beth/ Etruria-Celtica] Volume 2
* [https://archive.org/details/etruscanresearch00tayl/ Etruscan Researches]
* [[Index:Etruscan inscriptions (IA etruscaninscript00crawrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Etruscan Bologna- a study (IA etruscanbolognas00burtiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman imperialism (IA romanimperialism00fran).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tacitus and Other Roman Studies.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/invasionofeurope0000jbbu/ the invasion of europe by the barbarians]
* [[Index:A constitutional and political history of Rome, from the earliest times to the reign of Domitian (IA cu31924030431435).pdf]]
* [[Index:The development of the Roman constitution (IA developmentofrom00tighrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Coins of the Romans relating to Britain, described and illustrated (IA coinsofromansrel00aker).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the ancient Britons, from the earliest period to the invasion of the Saxons (IA historyofancient00gile).pdf]]
* [[Index:The invasion of Britain by Julius Caesar (IA invasionofbritai00lewi).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman era in Britain (IA romanerainbritai00wardiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Romanization of Roman Britain (IA romanizationofro00haverich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman roads in Britain (IA romanroadsinbrit00codr).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Celt, the Roman, and the Saxon; (IA celtromansaxon00wrig).pdf]]
* [[Index:The middle ages revisited; or, the Roman government and religion and their relations to Britain (IA middleagesrevisi01delm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ancient Britain in the light of modern archaeological discoveries (IA ancientbritainin00delm).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintoec01thac/ Researches into the ecclesiastical and political state of ancient Britain under the Roman emperors, Volume 1]
* [https://archive.org/details/researchesintoec02thac/ Researches into the ecclesiastical and political state of ancient Britain under the Roman emperors, Volume 2]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofpictsor00abbauoft/ A History of the Picts or Romano-British Wall]
* [https://archive.org/details/romanfrontierpos0000jame/ A Roman frontier post and its people]
* [[Index:Illustrations of Roman London (IA illustrationsofr00smitrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/londiniumarchite0000wrle/ Londinium Architecture and the Crafts]
* [https://archive.org/details/ourromanhighways00forbuoft/ Our Roman Highways]
* [[Index:History of Romulus (IA historyofromulusabbott).pdf]]
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00don).pdf]]
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the ethnography of ancient Italy and to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00donarich).pdf]], 2nd edition.
* [[Index:Varronianus- a critical and historical introduction to the ethnography of ancient Italy and to the philological study of the Latin language (IA varronianuscriti00dona).pdf]], 3rd edition
* [https://archive.org/details/primitiveitalybe0000homo/ Primitive Italy and the beginnings of Roman imperialism]
* [https://archive.org/details/stonebronzeagesi00peetuoft/ The stone and bronze ages in Italy and Sicily]
* [https://archive.org/details/byzantineempire00foor/ The Byzantine Empire (Edward Foord)]
* [[Index:The Byzantine Empire (IA byzantineempire00omanrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on Byzantine music (IA cu31924022269744).pdf]]
* [[Index:Constantine the Great; the reorganisation of the empire and the triumph of the church (IA constantinegreat00firt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Constantine, the last emperor of the Greeks; or, The conquest of Constantinople by the Turks (A.D. 1453) after the latest historical researches; (IA constantinelaste00mijarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine history in the early Middle Ages; the Rede lecture, delivered in the Senate House, Cambridge, June 12, 1900 (IA cu31924005774702).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine architecture; illustrated by examples of edifices erected in the East during the earliest ages of Christianity, with historical &amp; archaeological descriptions (IA gri 33125009314648).pdf]]
* [[Index:Roman emperor worship (IA cu31924028269490).pdf]]
* [[Index:The last Cæsars of Byzantium (IA lastcsarsofbyzan00todi).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Latins in the Levant - a history of Frankish Greece, 1204-1566 (IA latinsinlevanthi00mill 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Fall of Constantinople.djvu]]
* [[Index:Destruction of the Greek Empire.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Romane historie (IA romanehistorie00livy).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman assemblies from their origin to the end of the republic (IA cu31924030431534).pdf]]
* [[Index:The imperial civil service of Rome (IA imperialcivilser00matt).pdf]]
* [[Index:A handbook of Greek constitutional history (IA handbookofgreekc00gree).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/romeregalrepubli00striuoft/ Rome, Regal and Republican]
* [https://archive.org/details/dayinoldromepic00davi/ A Day in Old Rome]
* [[Index:The general, civil and military administration of Noricum and Raetia (IA generalcivilmili00peakrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Life and letters in Roman Africa microform (IA lifelettersinrom00boucrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Romae antiquae notitia, or, The antiquities of Rome - in two parts ... - with copper cuts of the principal buildings, etc. - to which are prefix'd two essays (IA romaeantiquaenot00kenn 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:A manual of Greek literature - from the earliest authentic periods to the close of the Byzantine era (IA manualgreek00anthrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/studentscompanio00midd/ The student's companion to Latin authors]
* [[Index:Loeb Classical Library, L001 (1919).djvu]]
* A History of the Republic of Rome {{esl|https://archive.org/details/historyofrepubli00bake/}}
* [[Index:Philological museum (IA cu31924104094903).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:Philological Museum v2.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 1, 1854.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 2, 1855.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 3, 1857.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology, Volume 4, 1859.djvu]]
* [[Index:Harper's dictionary of classical literature and antiquities (IA cu31924027019482).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities (1842, dictionaryofgree00smit 5).djvu]]
* [[Index:The auxilia of the Roman Imperial Army (IA auxiliaofromanim00cheerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1827) Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Topography and Monuments of Ancient Rome (1st Ed., Plattner, 1904, topographymonume0000plat v8a2).pdf]]
* [[Index:Byzantine Constantinople - the walls of the city and adjoining historical sites (IA byzantineconstan00vanm).pdf]]
* A Companion To Latin Studies {{esl|https://archive.org/details/companiontolatin00sand/}}
* [[Index:A handbook of Rome and the Campagna (IA handbookofromeca00john 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:Stories of ancient Rome (IA storiesofancient00rico).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early Rome (IA earlyrome00ihne).pdf]]
* [[Index:Men, events, lawyers, politics and politicians of early Rome (IA meneventslawyers00wage).pdf]]
* [[Index:State and family in early Rome (IA statefamilyinear00launiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The seven kings of the Seven Hills (IA sevenkingsofseve00lain).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_T2-CGU-516/ Rome of the Kings: An Archaeological Setting for Livy and Vergil]
* [[Index:The history of the kings of Rome. With a prefatory dissertation on its sources and evidence (IA historyofkingsof00dyerrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The kings of Rome (IA kingsofrome00rico).pdf]]
* [[Index:Regal Rome, an Introduction to Roman History (1852, Newman, London, regalromeintrodu00newmuoft).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_T2-CGU-516/ Rome of the Kings: An Archaeological Setting for Livy and Vergil]
* [https://archive.org/details/primitivefortif00parkgoog/ The primitive fortifications of the city of Rome, 2nd Edition]
* [https://archive.org/details/handbookofromanl0000radi/ handbook of roman law]
* [[Index:The origin and history of contract in Roman law down to the end of the republican period - being the Yorke prize essay for the year 1893 (IA cu31924021131366).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_a-new-pandect-of-roman-c_ayliffe-john_1734/ A new pandect of Roman civil law]
* [[Index:Preliminary Lecture to the Course of Lectures on the Institutions of Justinian (Wilde, 1794, bim eighteenth-century preliminary-lecture-to-t wilde-john 1794).pdf]]
* An introduction to the study of Justinian's digest {{esl|https://archive.org/details/introductiontost00roby/}}
* [[Index:The ecclesiastical edicts of the Theodosian code (IA ecclesiasticaled00boydrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/legacyofrome00bail/ The Legacy of Rome]
* [[Index:Nomos Rhodon nautikos. The Rhodian sea-law (IA nomosrhodonnauti00byzarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early Roman Law, The Regal Period (Clark, 1872, earlyromanlawreg00claruoft).djvu]]
* [[Index:Roman Britain (Collingwood, First Ed., 1924, b29827590).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical introduction to the private law of Rome (IA historicalintrod00muiriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Gaii institutionum iuris civilis commentarii quattuor, or, Elements of Roman law by Gaius (Poste, Third Edition, 1890, gaiiinstitution00gaiu).djvu]]
* [[Index:A history and description of Roman political institutions (IA historyanddescri00abbo).pdf]]
* [[Index:Britannia Romana, or, The Roman Antiquities of Britain in Three Books (britanniaromanao00hors, John Horsley, 1732).djvu]]
* [[Index:The municipalites of the Roman empire (IA municipalitesofr00reidrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Selected Letters of Cicero (Abbott, 1897, selectedletterso0000cice u2i6).pdf]]
* [[Index:Society and politics in ancient Rome; essays and sketches (IA cu31924087980326).pdf]]
* [[Index:The common people of ancient Rome- studies of Roman life and literature (IA cu31924028267841).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Roman system of provincial administration to the accession of Constantine the Great, being the Arnold prize essay for 1879 (IA romansystemofpro00arnoiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/twostudiesinlate0000unse/ Two Studies in Later Roman and Byzantine Administration]
* [[Index:The imperial administrative system in the ninth century, with a revised text of Kletorologion of Philotheos (IA imperialadminist00buryrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Municipal Administration in the Roman Empire (1926, Abbot and Johnson, municipaladminis00abbo).pdf]]

==== Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics ====
* [[Index:Pseudodoxia epidemica, or, Enquiries into very many received tenents, and commonly presumed truths (IA b30335760).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cycling (IA cyclingc00alberich).pdf]], Cycling, Badminton Library, 5th Edition
* [[Index:The bicycle- its care and repair (IA bicycleitscarere00vonc).pdf]]
* [[Index:https://archive.org/details/commonsenseofbic00ward/]], Bicycling for ladies
* [https://archive.org/details/helptotheunlearn00trimuoft/ A help to the unlearned in the study of the Holy Scriptures]
* [[Index:Origin of Modern Calculating Machines.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.2.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.3.djvu]]
* [[Index:Comptometer News 1.4.djvu]]
* [[Index:A general history of mathematics from the earliest times to the middle of the eighteenth century (IA generalhistoryof00bossrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The teaching and history of mathematics in the United States (IA teachinghistoryo00cajorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Higher mathematics - a textbook for classical and engineering colleges (IA highermathematic00merrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to mathematics, by A. N. Whitehead (IA introductiontoma00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Cornell University Library digitization (IA cu31924001078777).pdf]], Mathematical Dictionary and Cyclopedia of Mathematical Science
* [https://archive.org/details/principlesofmech00hertuoft/ The Principles of Mechanics]
* [[Index:Collected papers in physics and engineering (IA collectedpapersi00thomrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Theory of functions of a complex variable (IA functcomplexvari00forsrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to the study of the elements of the differential and integral calculus (IA introductiontost00harnrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on elementary trigonometry (IA treatiseonelemen00lockrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Elementary trigonometry (IA elementarytrigon00paterich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Earliest arithmetics in English (IA earliestarithmet00alexrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical introduction to mathematical literature (IA cu31924064123536).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/calculus0000henr/ Calculus]
* [https://archive.org/details/electiccircuitth0000john Electric Circuit Theory and the Operational Calculus]
* [[Index:Graphical and mechanical computation (IA cu31924004667550).pdf]]
* [[Index:A treatise on computation; an account of the chief methods for contracting and abbreviating arithmetical calculations (IA treatiseoncomput00langiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to mathematics, by A. N. Whitehead (IA introductiontoma00whitiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Daedalus; or, Science and the Future (1924, E.P. Dutton &amp; Company).pdf]]
* [[Index:Science (journal) Volume 1 1883.djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 1 (1837).djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 2 (1841).djvu]]
* [[Index:Scientific Memoirs, Vol. 3 (1843).djvu]]
* [[Index:Getty Research Institute (IA economiccottageb00dwye).pdf]], The Economic Cottage Builder
* [[Index:Elements of angling; a book for beginners (IA elementsofanglin00sherrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A book on angling; being a complete treatise on the art of angling in every branch (IA bookonanglingbei00franrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Fishcraft, a treatise on fresh water fish and fishing (IA fishcrafttreatis00pond).pdf]]
* [[Index:The potter's craft - a practical guide for the studio and workshop (IA potterscraftprac00binn 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of camping and woodcraft - a guidebook for those who travel in the wilderness (IA bookofcampingwoo00keph).pdf]]
* [[Index:Camp craft, modern practice and equipment (IA campcraftmodernp00millrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Camp kits and camp life (IA campkitscamplife00hankiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of woodcraft (IA bookofwoodcraft00seto).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of woodcraft and Indian lore (IA bookofwoodcrafti02seto).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Harper's camping and scouting; an outdoor guide for American boys; (IA harperscampingsc00grinrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Shelters, shacks, and shanties (IA sheltersshackssh01bear).pdf]]
* [[Index:The electric telegraph - its history and progress.. (IA electrictelegrap00highrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Electricity, magnetism, and electric telegraphy; a practical guide and hand-book of general information for electrical students, operators, and inspectors (IA electricitymagne00lockrich).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1883
* [[Index:Electricity, magnetism, and electric telegraphy; a practical guide and hand-book of general information for electrical students, operators, and inspectors (IA electricitymagne00lock).pdf]], 3rd Edition, 1890
* [[Index:Davis's manual of magnetism - including galvanism, magnetism, electro-magnetism, electro-dynamics, magneto-electricity, and thermo-electricity (IA davissmanualofma00davi).pdf]]
* [[Index:Historical sketch of the electric telegraph including its rise and progress in the United States (IA historicalsketch00jonerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity and galvanism; with cases, shewing their effects in the cure of diseases (IA b22042684).pdf]]
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity - in six sections ... (IA introductiontoel1770ferg).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity. In six sections ... - illustrated with copper plates (IA b30501350).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:An introduction to electricity. In six sections ... (IA introductiontoel00ferg).pdf]], 3rd Edition]]
* [https://archive.org/details/dynamoelectricit00pres/ Dynamo-electricity]
* [https://archive.org/details/radioactivit00ruth/ Radio-activity]
* [https://archive.org/details/electronnuclearp0000jbar/ Electrons and Nuclear Physics]
* [https://archive.org/details/ionselectronsion00crowuoft/ Ions, Electrons, and Ionizing Radiations]
* [https://archive.org/details/b29927997/ Atoms and Rays]
* [[Index:Atomic theories (IA atomictheories00loririch).pdf]]
* [[Index:X-ray manual - U.S. Army (IA xraymanualusarmy00unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl01amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl02amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl03amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:American quarterly of roentgenology (IA americanquarterl04amer).pdf]]
* [[Index:The study of the atom - or, The foundation of chemistry (IA studyofatomorfou00venarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The method of fluxions and infinite series.djvu]]
* [[Index:Practical observations on the generation of statical electricity by the electrical machine (IA 101208559.nlm.nih.gov).pdf]]
* [[Index:American Journal of Mathematics Vol. 2 (1879).pdf]]
* [[Index:Principles of radio communication (IA principlesofradi00morerich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Electrical machine design; the design and specification of direct and alternating current machinery .. (IA electricalmachin00grayrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Incandescent wiring hand-book, (IA incandescentwiri00badt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Bell System Technical Journal, Volume 1, 1922.pdf]]
* [[Index:Science Advances, Volume 8, Issue 44, Recursive sequence generation in crows (sciadv.abq3356).pdf]]
* [[Index:An Investigation of the Laws of Thought (1854, Boole, investigationofl00boolrich).djvu]]
* [[Index:Anatomy of the Human Body (1918).djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/b30322704/ An Institution Trigonometricall, 1635]
* [https://archive.org/details/McGillLibrary-rbsc_elements-geometrie-evclide-megara_folioQA31E867131570-21289/ Euclid's Geometrie, 1570]
* [[Index:Mr. Wingate's Arithmetick Containing a Plain and Familiar Method, for Attaining the Knowledge and Practice of Common Arithmetick (7th Edition, Edmund Wingate, 1678, b30342211).pdf]]
* [[Index:Mathematical Recreations or, a Collection of many Problems Extracted out of the Ancient and Modern Philosophers (Jean Leurechon, 1674, b30325882).pdf]]
* [[Index:Lux Mercatoria - Bridges - 1661.djvu]]
* [[Index:First book of mathematics, being an easy and practical introduction to the study; for self-instruction and use in schools (IA firstbookofmathe00reidrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indian Basketry.djvu]]
* [[Index:Machinery's Handbook, (6th Edition, 1924, machineryshandbo00indu).pdf]]
* [[Index:De re metallica (1912).djvu]]

=====Nature, Zoology, Entomology, Myrmecology, and other Insects and Animals=====
* [[Index:Chapters on ants (IA chaptersonants00trearich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Observations on the biology of the imported fire ant (IA observationsonbi49inse).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/collectedpaperso00whee/ Collected Papers on Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/biologicalembryo00tanq_0/ Biological and embryological studies on Formicidae]
* [[Index:Comparative studies in the psychology of ants and of higher animals (IA comparativestudi00wasmiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/learningorientat00schn/ Learning and Orientation in Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.460830/ Ants, by Julian Huxley...need better scan]
* [https://archive.org/details/demonsofdust0000will/ Demons of the Dust: A Study in Insect Behavior]
* [https://archive.org/details/sociallifeamongi00whee/ Social Life Among the Insects]
* [[Index:Life in an ant hill, (IA lifeinanthill00writ).pdf]]
* [[Index:Insect architecture (IA b22026885).pdf]], 1830, 1st Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/antpeople0000ewer/ The Ant People]
* [https://archive.org/details/bwb_P9-CSD-957/ Busy: The Life of Ant], novel
* [[Index:Ants and the children of the garden, relating the habits of the black harvester ant, and giving considerable information about ants in general (IA antsthechildreno00simkrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Field book of insects (IA fieldbookofins00lutz).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Field book of insects, with special reference to those of northeastern United States, aiming to answer common questions (IA fieldbookofinsec00lutz).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Ants and their ways, with illustrations, and an appendix giving a complete list of genera and species of the British ants (IA antstheirwayswit00whit).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/naturescraftsmen00mcco/ Nature's Craftsmen]
* [[Index:Ant communities and how they are governed; a study in natural civics (IA antcommunitiesho00mcco).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ants, Wheeler (1910).djvu]]
* [[Index:Ants and some other insects; an inquiry into the psychic powers of these animals (IA antssomeotherins00fore).pdf]]
* [[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA treatiseofbuggss00sout).pdf]], A treatise of buggs
* [[Index:Insect transformations (IA b22027191).pdf]]
* [[Index:Institutions of entomology- being a translation of Linnaeus's Ordines et genera insectorum; or, Systematic arrangement of insects (IA CUbiodiversity1115923).pdf]]
* [[Index:The elements of insect anatomy; an outline for the use of students in the entomological laboratories of Cornell University and Leland Stanford Junior University (IA elementsofinsect00comsto).pdf]]
* [[Index:The entomologist's text book - an introduction to the natural history, structure, physiology and classification of insects, including the Crustacea and Arachnida (IA entomologiststex00westw).pdf]]
* [[Index:The natural history of ants (IA b29289981).pdf]]
* [[Index:The natural history of insects (IA b28755741).pdf]]
* [[Index:An Account of English Ants (Gould, 1747, IA accountofenglish00goul).pdf]]
* [[Index:Journal of the Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia (IA journalofacademy01acaduoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Aristotle - History of Animals, 1883.djvu]]
* [[Index:The play of animals (IA playofanimals00groouoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Animals at work and play - their activities and emotions (IA animalsatworkpla00cornuoft).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Animals at work and play, their activities and emotions (IA animalsatworkpla00cornrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [https://archive.org/details/animalsatworkpla00corn/ Animals at Work and Play, 3rd Edition]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb01aalba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb02alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb03alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb04alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb05alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb06alba).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Journal of animal behavior (IA journalofanimalb07alba).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/psychobiology01baltuoft/ Psychobiology V1]
* [https://archive.org/details/psychobiology02baltuoft/ Psychobiology V2]
* [[Index:Ants, bees, and wasps. A record of observations on the habits of the social Hymenoptera (IA antsbeeswaspsrec00john).pdf]]
* [[Index:The bee and white ants, their manners and habits - with illustrations of animal instinct and intelligence - from &quot;The museum of science and art&quot; ... (IA beewhiteantsthei00lardrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofwhiteant00maet/ The Life of the White Ant], plagiarized from [[The Soul of the White Ant]] by [[Author:Eugène Nielen Marais|Eugène Nielen Marais]]
* [https://archive.org/details/lifeofant0000maet/ The Life of the Ant]
* [[Index:Mind in animals (IA mindinanimals00bchniala).pdf]]
* [[Index:British ants, their life-history and classification (IA britishantstheir00donirich).pdf]], 1st Edition, 1915
* [https://archive.org/details/britishants0000jkdo/ British Ants, 2nd Edition, 1927]
* [https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/002009241/ The Guests of British Ants]
* [https://archive.org/details/hymenopteraacule00saun/ The Hymenoptera Aculeata of the British Islands]
* [[Index:Elementary lessons in zoölogy - a guide in studying animal life and structure in field and laboratory (IA elementarylesso00need).pdf]]
* [[Index:Some common mushrooms and how to know them (IA somecommonmushr143char).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/fungihowtoknowth00swan/ Fungi and How to Know Them]
* [https://archive.org/details/britishsocialwas00ormeuoft/ British Social Wasps]

====Fantasy, Fiction, Poetry, Tolkien, Etc.====
* [[Index:Tales of terror, (IA talesofterror00unse).pdf]]
* [[Index:The tale of terror - a study of the Gothic romance (IA taleofterrorstud00birk).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/greatshortstorie0000unse_o6s0/ Great Short Stories of Detection, Mystery, and Horror]
* [[Index:The story of Sigurd the Volsung and the fall of the Niblungs (IA storyofsigurdvol00morriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Translation of the Anglo-Saxon Poem of Beowulf (Kemble 1837).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Worm Ouroboros - 1922.djvu]]
* [[Index:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Tolkien and Gordon - 1925.djvu]]
* [[Index:Tolkien - A middle English Vocabulary.djvu]]
* [[Index:Fourteenth_Century_Verse_and_Prose_-_Sisam_-_1921.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Review of English Studies Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Mabinogion; (IA mabinogion00schrrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The gods of Pegana (IA godsofpegana00duns).pdf]]
* [[Index:John Martin Crawford - The Kalevala (Vol 1) - (IA cu31924026852917).pdf]]
* [[Index:John Martin Crawford - The Kalevala (Vol 2) - (IA cu31924030974038).pdf]]
* [[Index:Early English romances in verse- (IA earlyenglishroma00rickrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:A Middle English reader - edited, with grammatical introduction notes, and glossary (IA middleenglishrea00emerrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The most delectable history of Reynard the Fox; (IA mostdelectablehi00jacorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The most delectable history of Reynard the Fox, and of his son Reynardine - a revised version of an old romance (IA mostdelectablehi00londiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Reynard the Fox, a poem in twelve cantos (IA reynardfoxpoemin00hollrich).pdf]]

====Games, Tabletop, Wargame, Military, RPG, Videogame, etc.====
* [[Index:Ship and gun drills, United States navy, 1905 (IA shipgundrillsuni00unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:Naval administration and warfare - some general principles, with other essays (IA navaladministrat00maha).pdf]]
* [[Index:Naval administration and warfare (IA navaladministrat01maha).pdf]], 1918 reprint
* [[Index:Routine book, including general features of organization, administration, and ordinary station bills (IA routinebookinclu00belk).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/yashkamylifeaspe00bochuoft/ Yashka, my life as peasant, exile and soldier]
* [[Index:An account of the organization of the army of the United States (IA orgzofthearmyusa01robirich).pdf]], Volume 1
* [[Index:An account of the organization of the army of the United States (IA orgofthearmyusa01robirich).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:Military and naval America (IA militaryandnaval00kerriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Routine book, including general features of organization, administration, and ordinary station bills (IA routinebookinclu00belk).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Yankee navy (IA yankeenavy00mass).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Yankee mining squadron; or, Laying the North sea mine barrage (IA yankeeminingsqua00belk).pdf]]
* [[Index:779th Radar Squadron (ADC) Opheim AFS Montana New Personnel Brochure 1973.pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancientmodernshi00holmuoft/ Ancient and Modern Ships: Part I]
* [https://archive.org/details/sailingshipsstor00chatuoft/ Sailing ships : the story of their development from earliest times to the present day]
* [[Index:The British navy (IA cu31924030756146).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ships of the Royal Navy (IA shipsofroyalnavy00park).pdf]]
* [[Index:The British Navy from within (IA britishnavyfromw00exrorich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The British navy in battle (IA britishnavyinbat00poll).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/popularhistoryof00kinguoft/ A Popular history of the British Navy from the earliest times to the present]
* [[Index:The Royal Navy (IA cu31924028018574).pdf]]
* [[Index:The German army in war (IA germanarmyinwar00atterich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Handbook on German army identification (IA handbookongerman02unit).pdf]]
* [[Index:The war book of the German general staff; being &quot;the usages of war on land&quot; issued by the great general staff of the German army; (IA warbookofgermang00newyiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The German army. Department of military art, the Army service schools (IA germanarmydepart00bjorrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Notes on field fortifications (IA notesonfieldfort00armyrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military organization of the United States (IA militaryorganiza00comm).pdf]]
* [[Index:Army and Navy Uniforms and Insignia (Williams, 1918, armynavyuniforms00will).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military and naval recognition book; a handbook on the organization, insignia of rank, and customs of the service of the world's important armies and navies (IA militarynavalrec00bunkrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Military and naval recognition book, a handbook on the organization, insignia of rank, and customs of the service of the world's important armies and navies (IA recognitionmilitary00bunkrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Orders, decorations and insignia, military and civil; with the history and romance of their origin and a full description of each (IA ordersdecoration00wyllrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Military Organization and Administration (Collins, 1918, militaryorganiza00colluoft).pdf]]
* [[Index:Organization; how armies are formed for war (IA organizationhowa00fostiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Company administration - preparation, disposition, and filing of company records, reports, and returns (IA c00ompanyadministrunitrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Dungeons &amp; Dragons System Reference Document.pdf]]
* [[Index:John Banks Wilson - Maneuver and Firepower (1998).djvu]]
* [[Index:FM-34-45-Tactics-Techniques-and-Procedures-for-Electronic-Attack.pdf]]
* [[Index:Fm100-2-3 - The Soviet Army, Troops, Organization, and Equipment.pdf]]
* [[Index:United States Army Field Manual 3-13 Information Operations.djvu]]

====Asia====
* [[Index:Eastern Asia, a history, being the second edition of A brief history of eastern Asia, entirely rewritten (IA easternasiahisto00hannrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/historyofchinabe0000unse/ A History of China]
* [https://archive.org/details/ancienthistoryof00hirtuoft/ The ancient history of China to the end of the Chóu dynasty]
* [[Index:A little history of China, and a Chinese story (IA littlehistoryofc00brebiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of China; (IA historyofchina00will).pdf]]
* [[Index:The three religions of China; lectures delivered at Oxford (IA cu31924023204062).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tibet, Tartary, and Mongolia ; their social and political condition, and the religion of Boodh, as there existing (IA tibettartarymong00prin).pdf]]
* [[Index:The book of tea - a Japanese harmony of art culture and the simple life (IA bookofteajapanes00okakrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of Corea, ancient and modern - with description of manners and customs, language and geography (IA cu31924023564549).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of Corea, Ancient and Modern; with Description of Manners and Customs, Language and Geography WDL2374.pdf]], Cheaper Edition, 1891.
* [https://archive.org/details/anglicanchurchin00corf/ The Anglican Church in Corea]
* [[Index:Corea, the hermit nation. I. Ancient and mediaeval history. II. Political and social Corea. III. Modern and recent history (IA coreahermitnatio00grif).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/coreawithoutwith00grif_0/ Corea, Without and Within]
* [[Index:Who is God in China.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/cu31924023233947/ The early institutional life of Japan]
* [[Index:The development of religion in Japan (IA developmentofrel00knoxrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:The religions of Japan - from the dawn of history to the era of Méiji - by William Elliott Griffis (IA religionsofjapan00grifrich).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/japanaccountgeog00macfuoft/ Japan]
* [https://archive.org/details/ost-art-japaneseart00hartuoft/ Japanese Art]
* [[Index:Old and new Japan (IA oldnewjapan00hollrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Japan as it was and is. (IA japanasitwasis00hild 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Japanese empire- its physical, political, and social condition and history; with details of the late American and British expeditions (IA japaneseempireit01kemi 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Japanese empire and its economic conditions (IA japaneseempireit00daut).pdf]]
* [[Index:The present state of the medical administration of the Japanese empire (IA presentstateofme00japaiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Japan - its architecture, art, and art manufactures (IA japanitsarchitec00dres 0).pdf]]
* [[Index:China, Japan and Korea (IA chinajapankorea00blan).pdf]]
* [[Index:Korea (IA korea00coul).pdf]]
* [[Index:Quaint Korea (IA quaintkorea00milnrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf]]
* [[Index:Kaempfer History of Japan 1727 vol 2 (IA historyofjapangi02kaem).pdf]]
* [[Index:Kaempfer History of Japan 1727 vol 1 (IA historyofjapangi01kaem).pdf]]
* [[Index:A dissertation on the theology of the Chinese, - with a view to the elucidation of the most appropriate term for expressing the Diety in the Chinese language. (IA dissertationonth00medhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Abstract of four lectures on Buddhist literature in China - delivered at University college, London (IA cu31924023158607).pdf]]
* [[Index:Index:The Chinese Classics - Legge - 2nd ed - 1893 - Vol 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Synoptical studies in the Chinese character (1874).djvu]]
* [[Index:Elementary Chinese - San Tzu Ching (1900).djvu]]
* [[Index:An Anglo-Chinese vocabulary of the Ningpo dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Easy sentences in the Hakka dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:A dictionary of the Hakka dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Chinese-English Dictionary Hakka-dialect.pdf]]
* [[Index:Nestorian Monument - Carus.djvu]]
* [[Index:An alphabetical index to the Chinese encyclopaedia.pdf]]
* [[Index:Sun Tzu on The art of war.djvu]]
* [[Index:A Chinese Biographical Dictionary.djvu]]
* [[Index:Pekinese Rhymes (G. Vitale, 1896).djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese Life in the Tibetan Foothills.djvu]]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA dictionaryofhokk00medhrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Excellent ancient adages, together with notes on the writings of Chinese romanized in the Hokkien dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Essays on the Chinese Language (1889).djvu]]
* [[Index:A short history of China; an account for the general reader of an ancient empire and people (IA sh00orthistoryofchboulrich).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:A short history of China; an account for the general reader of an ancient empire and people (IA shorthistoryofch00boulrich).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:A history of China from the earliest days down to the present (IA cu31924091024392).pdf]]
* [[Index:The unveiled East (IA unveiledeast00mcke).pdf]]
* [[Index:Letters from the Far East (IA lettersfromfarea00evan).pdf]]
* [[Index:China and the Far East (IA chinafareast00blak).pdf]]
* [[Index:China and the Far East, 1889-99 - contribution toward a bibliography (IA cu31924023967734).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/gpl_1856272/ The Morals of Confucius, 1691]
* [[Index:California Digital Library (IA chinesenovelstra00davirich).pdf|Chinese novels, translated from the originals]]
* [[Index:Notes on Chinese literature (IA notesonchineseli00wyli).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/chunsilinghistor00londiala/ Chun and Si-Ling]
* [[Index:The Far East (IA fareast00litt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Provinces of China, together with a history of the first year of H.I.M. Hsuan Tung, and an account of the government of China .. (IA provincesofchina00bruciala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Ceremonial Usages of the Chinese, B. C. 1121- Being an Abridgement of the Chow Le Classic (IA ceremonialusage00hugoog).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/civilizationofch00gileiala/ The Civilization of China]
* [[Index:A general view of Chinese civilization and of the relations of the West with China (IA generalviewofchi00laffrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Sidelights on Chinese Life (sidelightsonchin00macg, 1907, MacGowan).pdf]]
* [[Index:A history of Chinese literature - Giles.djvu]]
* [[Index:Notable women of modern China (IA notablewomenofmo00burt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The education of women in Japan (IA educationofwomen00burt).pdf]]
* [[Index:The education of girls in China (IA educationofgirls00lewi).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/chinesetheireduc00martiala/ The Chinese: their education, philosophy, and letters]
* [[Index:The lore of Cathay - or, The intellect of China (IA loreofcathayorin00martrich).pdf]]
* [[Index:China's only hope - an appeal (IA chinasonlyhopeap00zhan).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese Empire. A General &amp; Missionary Survey.djvu]]
* [https://archive.org/details/educationofwomen00burtuoft/ The Education of Women in China]
* [[Index:Modern education in China (IA moderneducationi00tang).pdf]]
* [[Index:The educational system of China as recently reconstructed (IA educationalsyste00king).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese system of public education (IA chinesesystemop00kuop).pdf]]
* [[Index:Chinese education from the western viewpoint (IA chineseeducation00yens).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/sihialanguage27lauf/ The Si-hia Language]
* [https://archive.org/details/chinahistoryofla01grayuoft/ China: a History of the Laws, Manners and Customs of the People, Volume 1]
* [[Index:China - a history of the laws, manners and customs of the people (IA chinahistoryofla02grayuoft).pdf]], Volume 2
* [[Index:On &amp; off duty in Annam (IA onoffdutyinannam00vassiala).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/storieslegendsof00chiv/ Stories and Legends of Annam]
* [[Index:Vietnamese Song Book (U.S. Army Language School, 1961).pdf]]
* [[Index:Indo-China and its primitive people (IA indochinaitsprim00baud).pdf]]
* [[Index:The persecutions of Annam; a history of Christianity in Cochin China and Tonking (IA persecutionsofan00shoriala).pdf]]
* [[Index:The French in Tonkin and South China (IA frenchintonkinso00cunn).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tonkin, or, France in the Far East (IA cu31924023040581).pdf]]
* [[Index:Tungking (IA cu31924088799386).pdf]]
* [[Index:France and Tongking; a narrative of the campaign of 1884 and the occupation of Further India (IA francetongkingna01scot 0).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/warintongkingwh00staugoog/ The War in Tong-king]
* [[Index:The political ideas of modern Japan (IA politicalideasof00kawarich).pdf]]
* [[Index:Studies in Vietnamese (Annamese) grammar (Emeneau).pdf]]
* [[Index:The Corean government- constitutional changes, July 1894 to October 1895. With an appendix on subsequent enactments to 30th June 1896 (IA cu31924023425063).pdf]]
* [[Index:The history of that great and renowned monarchy of China. Wherein all the particular provinces are accurately described- as also the dispositions, manners, learning, lawes, militia (IA historyofthatgre00seme).pdf]]
* [[Index:Code of Gentoo Laws (1776, codeofgentoolaws00halh, Halhed).djvu]]
* [[Index:Ancient China, The Shoo King or the Historical Classic (Ancientchinashoo00confuoft, Medhurst, 1846).djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese Moral Maxims - Davis - 1823.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 2.djvu]]
* [[Index:Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society - Volume 3.djvu]]
* [[Index:Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland 1864-65.pdf]]
* [[Index:The Chinese Repository - Volume 01.djvu]]
* [[Index:An Ainu-English-Japanese dictionary (including a grammar of the Ainu language).djvu]]
* [[Index:How Many Independent Rice Vocabularies in Asia?.pdf]]
* [[Index:A Grammar of the Chinese Language (grammarofchinese00morr 1, Morrison, 1815).pdf]]
* [[Index:Ta Tsing Leu Lee; Being, The Fundamental Laws, and a Selections from the Supplementary Statutes, of the Penal Code of China.djvu]]
* [[Index:Dictionary of the Swatow dialect.djvu]]
* [[Index:Chinese miscellany; consisting of original extracts from Chinese authors, in the native character; with translations and philological remarks (IA b22009450).pdf]]
* [[Index:Translations from the Original Chinese, with Notes (translationsfrom00morruoft, 1815).djvu]]

====Manuscripts====
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Nero A x (art. 3).pdf]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Nero D IV.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Julius A II.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Julius A VII.djvu]]
* [[Index:BL Cotton MS Vitellius A XV.djvu]]

==== North Carolina ====
* [https://archive.org/details/communityservice00nort_0/ Community Service Week in North Carolina]
* [[Index:Citizens' reference book - a text and reference book for pupils and teachers in community schools for adult beginners (IA citizensreferenc1922morr).pdf]]
* [[Index:Annual report of North Carolina Council of Defense (serial) (IA annualreportofno11918nort).pdf]]
* [[Index:Rules and regulations of Mecklenburg County Home Guard (IA rulesregulations00north).pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Council of Defense - plan of organization (IA northcarolinacounort).pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Council of defense historical committee (IA northcarolinacou00no).pdf]]
* [[Index:North Carolina, a study in English colonial government (IA northcarolinas00rape).pdf]]
* [[Index:Reconstruction in North Carolina (IA cu31924028788664).pdf]], 1st Edition
* [[Index:Reconstruction in North Carolina .. (IA reconstructionin00hami).pdf]], 2nd Edition
* [[Index:Official history of the 120th Infantry &quot;3rd North Carolina&quot; 30th Division, from August 5, 1917, to April 17, 1919 - canal sector, Ypres-Lys offensive, Somme offensive (IA officialhistoryowalk).pdf]]
* [https://archive.org/details/accountofprovinc00wils/ An Account of the Province of Carolina in America]
* [https://archive.org/details/fundamentalconst00caro/ The Fundamental Constitutions of Carolina]
* [[Index:University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (IA govwilliamtryon00hayw).pdf]], Governor William Tryon, and his administration in the province of North Carolina
* [[Index:The Moravians in North Carolina - an authentic history (IA moraviansinnorth00reic).pdf]]
* [[Indes:History of Wachovia in North Carolina; the Unitas fratrum or Moravian church in North Carolina during a century and a half, 1752-1902 (IA historyofwachovi00clew).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the University of North Carolina (IA historyofunivers00batt).pdf]]
* [[Index:History of the University of North Carolina (IA historyofunivers02batt).pdf]]
* [[Index:Laws of the University of North-Carolina (1800, lawsofuniversityuniv1799).djvu]]
* [[Index:Report of the Tax Commission to Governor Angus Wilton McLean, 1927.pdf]]
* [[Index:Regulations for the North Carolina National Guard, 1907.pdf]]
* [[Index:Reminiscences of Randolph County - Blair - 1890.djvu]]
* [[Index:West Chowan Baptist Messenger, Volume 1 - Issue 4.pdf]]
* [[Index:Revised Statutes of the State of North Carolina - Volume 1.djvu]]
* [[Index:Session Laws of North Carolina, April, 1777.pdf]]
* [[Index:A bibliography of North Carolina, 1589-1956 - 1958.djvu]]
* [[Index:The Asheboro Courier, Volume IX, No. 26.pdf]]
* [[Index:The North Carolina Historical Review - Volume 1, Number 1.pdf]]
* [[Index:1751 A collection of all the public acts of Assembly, of the province of North-Carolina now in force and use.pdf]]
* [[Index:North Carolina Manual (1874).pdf]]
* [[Index:NC-Register-Volume-01-Issue-01.pdf]]

== Series/Periodicals/Journals ==
* [[Science (journal)]]
* [[The China Review]]
* [[Amazing Stories]]
* [[The Chinese Repository]]
* [[Federal Register]]
* [[Weird Tales]]
* [[The Journal of Religion]]
* [[Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society]]
* [[Journal of Classical and Sacred Philology]]
* [[Journal of Germanic Philology]]
* [[Journal of English and Germanic Philology]]
* [[Southern Historical Society Papers]]
* [[Archaeologia]]
* [[Portal:The Review of English Studies|The Review of English Studies]]
* [[Archaeological Journal]]
* [[National Geographic Magazine]]
* [[Classical World]]
* [[The International Socialist Review (1900-1918)]]
* [[Loeb Classical Library]]
* [[West Chowan Baptist Messenger]], in case more issues show up.
* [[The Courier]]
* [[North Carolina Historical Review]]

== Copyright books, bibliographies, etc. ==
* [[Catalog of Copyright Entries]]
* [[Index:A bibliography of North Carolina, 1589-1956 - 1958.djvu]]

== Authors I'm working on / might work on ==
* [[author:John Ronald Reuel Tolkien|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien]]
* [[author:Alexander Ross|Alexander Ross]]
* [[Author:George Lyman Kittredge|George Lyman Kittredge]]
* [[Author:Frank Johnson Goodnow|Frank Johnson Goodnow]]
* [[Author:Frank Frost Abbott|Frank Frost Abbott]]
* [[Author:John Bagnell Bury|John Bagnell Bury]]
* [[Author:Edwin Charles Clark|Edwin Charles Clark]]
* [[Author:James Muirhead (1831-1889)|James Muirhead]]
* [[Author:Edward Poste|Edward Poste]]
* [[Author:James Young Simpson|James Young Simpson]]
* [[Author:Francis Ellingwood Abbot|Francis Ellingwood Abbot]]

== WikiProjects ==

* [[Wikisource:WikiProject North Carolina|WikiProject North Carolina]]
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject Socialism|WikiProject Socialism]]
* [[Wikisource:WikiProject Chinese|WikiProject Chinese]]

== Other ==

* Created the [[Template:PD-Nauru]] for Nauruan works

== Other Accounts ==

* https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Reboot01

== Scripts and Tools and things ==

*[[/Sandbox/]]
*[[/common.js/]]
*[[/common.css/]]
*[[/CustomToolbarAdditions.js/]]

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      <text bytes="2201" sha1="ikis6bs8bonahhlcnqqkx4uvw7o5h2y" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;I herd you liek mudkips&quot; /&gt;{{rh|  |{{smaller|THE VICOMTE DE BRAGELONNE}}|  }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;490 THE VTCOMTE DE BRAGELONNE. 
&quot;And is that money in my coffers?&quot; said the king, with a 
certain air of repugnance. 
&quot;It is there, sire; but this confiscation, while threatening 
Monsieur Fouquet, has not touched him.&quot; 
&quot;You conclude, then, Monsieur Colbert &quot; 
&quot;That if Monsieur Fouquet has raised against your 
majesty a troop of factious rioters to extricate his friends 
from punishment, he will raise an army when he shall have 
to extricate himself from punishment.&quot; 
The king darted at his confidant one of those looks which 
resemble the red fire of a stormy flash of lightning, one of 
chose looks which illuminate the darkness of the deepest 
consciences. &quot;I am astonished,&quot; said he, &quot;that, thinking 
such things of Monsieur Fouquet, you did not come to give 
me your counsels thereupon.&quot; 
&quot;Counsels upon what, sire?&quot; 
&quot;Tell me, in the first place, clearly and precisely, what 
you think, Monsieur Colbert.&quot; 
&quot;Upon what subject, sire?&quot; 
&quot;Upon the conduct of Monsieur Fouquet.&quot; 
&quot;I think, sire, that Monsieur Fouquet, not satisfied Avith 
attracting all the money to himself, as Monsieur Mazarin 
did, and by that means depriving your majesty of one part 
of your power, still wishes to attract to himself all the 
friends of easy life and pleasures — of what idlers call poetry, 
and politicians corruption. I think that, by holding the 
subjects of your majesty in pay, he trespasses upon the 
royal prerogative, and cannot, if this continues so, be long 
in placing your majesty among the weak and obscure.&quot; 
&quot;How would you qualify all these projects, Monsieur 
Colbert?&quot; 
&quot;The projects of Monsieur Fouquet, sire?&quot; 
&quot;Yes.&quot; 
&quot;They are called crimes of Use majeste.&quot; 
&quot;And what is done to criminals guilty of Use majestS?&quot; 
&quot;They are arrested, tried, and punished.&quot; 
&quot;You are quite sure that Monsieur Fouquet has conceived 
the idea of the crime you impute to him?&quot; 
&quot;I can say more, sire; there is even a commencement of 
the execution of it.&quot; 
&quot;Well, then, I return to that which I was saying, Mon- 
sieur Colbert.&quot; 
&quot;And you were saying, sire?&quot; 
&quot;Give me counsel.&quot; 
&quot;Pardon me, sire; but, in the first place, I have some- 
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&quot;D'Artagnan may have everything except my English 
horse?, i shall be at the Louvre in twenty-five minutes.&quot;
And without losing a second, Fouquet gave orders for his 
departure. 
Aramis had only time to say to him, &quot;Return as quickly 
as you go; for I shall await you impatiently.&quot; 
Five minutes after, the surintendant was Hying along the 
road to Paris. During this time Aramis desired to be 
shown the chamber in which Porthos was sleeping. At the 
door of Fouquet's cabinet he was folded in the arms of Pel- 
lisson, who had just heard of his arrival, and had left his 
office to see him. Aramis received, with that friendly dig- 
nity which he knew so well how to assume, those caresses 
as respectful as earnest; but, all at once stopping on the 
knding-place, &quot;What is that I hear up yonder?&quot; 
&quot;There was, in fact, a hoarse, growling kind of noise, 
like the roar of a hungry tiger or an impatient lion. &quot;Oh, 
that is nothing,&quot; said Pellisson, smiling. 
&quot;Well; but &quot; 
&quot;It is Monsieur du Valon snoring.&quot; 
&quot;Ah! true,&quot; said Aramis; &quot;I had forgotten. No one but 
he is capable of making such a noise. Allow me, Pellisson, 
to inquire if he wants anything.&quot; 
-&quot;And you will permit me to accompany you?&quot; 
&quot;Oh, certainly;&quot; and both entered the chamber. Porthos 
was stretched upon the bed; his face was violet rather than 
red; his eyes were swelled; his mouth was w 7 ide open. The 
roaring which escaped from the deep cavities of his chest 
made the glass of the windows vibrate. To those developed 
and clearly defined muscles starting from his face, to his 
hair matted with sw'eat, to the energetic heaving of his chin 
and shoulders, it was impossible to refuse a certain degree 
of admiration. Strength carried to this point is almost 
divinity. The Herculean legs and feet of Porthos had, by 
swelling, burst his leather boots; all the strength of his 
enormous body was converted into the rigidity of stone. 
Porthos moved no more than does the giant of granite 
which reclines upon the plains of Agrigentum. According 
to Pellisson's orders, his boots had been cut off, for no 
human power could have pulled them off. Four lackeys 
had tried in vain, pulling at them as they would have pulled 
capstans; and yet all this did not awaken him. They had 
taken off his boots in fragments, and his legs had fallen 
back upon the bed. They then cut off the rest of his 
clothes, carried him to a bath, in which they let him lie&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Vicomte de Bragelonne 2.djvu/497</title>
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      <text bytes="1783" sha1="793vxyare05xuktxn8ac656z4e02otu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;I herd you liek mudkips&quot; /&gt;{{rh|  |{{smaller|THE VICOMTE DE BRAGELONNE}}|  }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;THE VICOMTE DE BRAGELOSHSTE. 485 
&quot;And in it you perceived a direct attack upon your 
sovereignty?&quot; 
&quot;And do you believe it to ba so?&quot;
&quot;Oh, yes, I think so.&quot; 
&quot;Well, I must confess, that sad idea occurred to me like- 
wise.&quot; 
&quot;Do not blind yourself, monsieur, in the name of Heaven! 
Listen attentively to me. I return to D'Artagnan.&quot; 
&quot;I am all attention.&quot; 
&quot;Under what circumstances did you see him?&quot; 
&quot;He came here for monev.&quot; 
&quot;With what kind of order?&quot; 
&quot;With an order from the king.&quot; 
&quot;Direct?&quot; 
&quot;Signed by his majesty.&quot; 
&quot;There, then! Well, D'Artagnan has been to Belle-Isle; 
he was disguised; he came in the character of some sort of 
an intendant, charged by his master to purchase salt mines. 
Now, D'Artagnan has no other master but the king; he 
came, then, sent by the king. He saw Porthos.&quot; 
&quot;Who is Porthos?&quot; 
&quot;I beg your pardon, I made a mistake. He saw Mon- 
sieur du Valon at Belle-Isle; and he knows, as well as you 
and I do, that Belle-Isle is fortified.&quot; 
&quot;And you think that the king sent him there?&quot; said Fe v 
quet pensively. 
&quot;I certainly do.&quot; 
&quot;And D'Artagnan, in the hands of the king, is a danger- 
ous instrument?&quot; 
&quot;The most dangerous imaginable.&quot; 
&quot;Then I formed a correct opinion of him at the first 
glance.&quot; 
&quot;How so?&quot; 
&quot;I wished to attach him to myself.&quot; 
&quot;If you judged him to be the bravest, the most acute, 
.and the most adroit man in France, you have judged 
correctly.&quot; 
&quot;He must be had, then, at any price.&quot; 
&quot;D'Artagnan?&quot; 
&quot;Is not that your opinion?&quot; 
&quot;It may be my opinion, but you will never have him.&quot; 
&quot;Why?&quot; 
&quot;Because we have allowed the time to go by. He was 
dissatisfied with the court, we should have profited by that; 
since that, he has passed into England; there he powerfully&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/137</title>
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      <text bytes="1789" sha1="25fv8hysmj4ur2lwy9h2a44bgwpf3oz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{center|CHAPTER I.}}

{{c|''Of the Characteristics of Men and Women.—The Reasons Why Women Reject the Addresses of Men.—About Men Who Have Success with Women, and About Women Who Are Easily Gained Over.''}}

{{sc|The}} wives of other people may be resorted to on the occasions already described in Part I, Chapter 5, of this work, but the possibility of their acquisition, their fitness for cohabitation, the danger to oneself in uniting with them, and the future effect of these unions, should first of all be examined. A man may resort to the wife of another, for the purpose of saving his own life, when he perceives that his love for her proceeds from one degree of intensity to another. These degrees are ten in number, and are distinguished by the following marks:

# Love of the eye.
# Attachment of the mind.
# Constant reflection.
# Destruction of sleep.
# Emaciation of the body.
# Turning away from objects of enjoyment.
# Removal of shame.
# Madness.
# Fainting.
# Death.

Ancient authors say that a man should know the disposition, truthfulness, purity, and will of a young woman, as also the intensity, or weakness of her passions from the form of her body, and from her characteristic marks and signs. But ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that the forms of bodies, and the characteristic marks or signs are but erring tests of character, and that women should be judged by their conduct, by the outward expression of their thoughts, and by the movements of their bodies.

Now as a general rule ''Gonikaputra'' says that a woman falls in love with every handsome man she sees, and so does every man at the sight of a beautiful woman, but frequently they do not take any further steps owing to various considerations. In love the following circumstances are peculiar&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|103}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1785" sha1="t5hwvkziw4jskp5veeo8iqujglggu5a" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER I.}}
{{ph/sub|Of the Characteristics of Men and Women.—The Reasons Why Women Reject the Addresses of Men.—About Men Who Have Success with Women, and About Women Who Are Easily Gained Over.}}

{{sc|The}} wives of other people may be resorted to on the occasions already described in Part I, Chapter 5, of this work, but the possibility of their acquisition, their fitness for cohabitation, the danger to oneself in uniting with them, and the future effect of these unions, should first of all be examined. A man may resort to the wife of another, for the purpose of saving his own life, when he perceives that his love for her proceeds from one degree of intensity to another. These degrees are ten in number, and are distinguished by the following marks:

# Love of the eye.
# Attachment of the mind.
# Constant reflection.
# Destruction of sleep.
# Emaciation of the body.
# Turning away from objects of enjoyment.
# Removal of shame.
# Madness.
# Fainting.
# Death.

Ancient authors say that a man should know the disposition, truthfulness, purity, and will of a young woman, as also the intensity, or weakness of her passions from the form of her body, and from her characteristic marks and signs. But ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that the forms of bodies, and the characteristic marks or signs are but erring tests of character, and that women should be judged by their conduct, by the outward expression of their thoughts, and by the movements of their bodies.

Now as a general rule ''Gonikaputra'' says that a woman falls in love with every handsome man she sees, and so does every man at the sight of a beautiful woman, but frequently they do not take any further steps owing to various considerations. In love the following circumstances are peculiar&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|103}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2110" sha1="bt7nkplyh073q9wmsptfq77j1rm5dhy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|104|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;to the woman. She loves without regard to right or wrong,&lt;ref&gt;On peut tout attendre et tout supposer d'une femme amoureuse — Balzac.&lt;/ref&gt; and does not try to gain over a man simply for the attainment of some particular purpose. Moreover, when a man first makes up to her she naturally shrinks from him, even though she may be willing to unite herself with him. But when the attempts to gain her are repeated and renewed, she at last consents. But with a man, even though he may have begun to love, he conquers his feelings from a regard for morality and wisdom, and although his thoughts are often on the woman, he does not yield, even though an attempt be made to gain him over. He sometimes makes an attempt or effort to win the object of his affections, and having failed, he leaves her alone for the future. In the same way when a woman is once gained, he often becomes indifferent about her. As for the saying that a man does not care for what is easily gained, and only desires a thing which cannot be obtained without difficulty, it is only a matter of talk.

The causes of a woman rejecting the addresses of a man are as follows:

# Affection for her husband.
# Desire of lawful progeny.
# Want of opportunity.
# Anger at being addressed by the man too familiarly.
# Difference in rank of life.
# Want of certainty on account of the man being devoted to travelling.
# Thinking that the man may be attached to some other person.
# Fear of the man's not keeping his intentions secret.
# Thinking that the man is too devoted to his friends, and has too great a regard for them.
# The apprehension that he is not in earnest.
# Bashfulness on account of his being an illustrious man.
# Fear on account of his being powerful, or possessed of too impetuous passion, in the case of the deer-woman.
# Bashfulness on account of his being too clever.
# The thought of having once lived with him on friendly terms only.
# Contempt of his want of knowledge of the world.
# Distrust of his low character.
# Disgust at his want of perception of her love for him.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/139</title>
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      <text bytes="1929" sha1="5na0ebw9druk8zqd941mvv7a766nsxx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|105 }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;# &lt;li value=18&gt;In the case of an ''elephant-woman'', the thought that he is a hare-man, or a man of weak passion.&lt;/li&gt;
# Compassion lest any thing should befall him on account of his passion.
# Despair at her own imperfections.
# Fear of discovery.
# Disillusion at seeing his grey hair or shabby appearance.
# Fear that he may be employed by her husband to test her chastity.
# The thought that he has too much regard for morality.

Whichever of the above causes a man may detect, he should endeavor to remove it from the very beginning. Thus, the bashfulness that may arise from his greatness or his ability, he should remove by showing his great love and affection for her. The difficulty of the want of opportunity, or of his inaccesibility, he should remove by showing her some easy way of access. The excessive respect entertained by the woman for him should be removed by making himself very familiar. The difficulties that arise from his being thought a low character he should remove by showing his valor and his wisdom; those that come from neglect by extra attention; and those that arise from fear by giving her proper encouragement.

The following are the men who generally obtain success with women:

# Men well versed in the science of love.
# Men skilled in telling stories.
# Men acquainted with women from their childhood.
# Men who have secured their confidence.
# Men who send presents to them.
# Men who talk well.
# Men who do things that they like.
# Men who have not loved other women previously.
# Men who act as messengers.
# Men who know their weak points.
# Men who are desired by good women.
# Men who are united with their female friends.
# Men who are good looking.
# Men who have been brought up with them.
# Men who are their neighbors.
# Men who are devoted to sexual pleasures, even though these be their own servants.
# The lovers of the daughters of their nurse.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1634" sha1="hkvaf0r7rxvaf159yxtdbsaa6uj8yuj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|106|''The Kama Sutra''| }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;# &lt;li value=18&gt;Men who have been lately married.&lt;/li&gt;
# Men who like picnics and pleasure parties.
# Men who are liberal.
# Men who are celebrated for being very strong (''bull-men'').
# Enterprising and brave men.
# Men who surpass their husbands in learning and good looks, in good qualities, and in liberality.
# Men whose dress and manner of living are magnificent.

The following are the women who are easily gained over:

# Women who stand at the door of their houses.
# Women who are always looking out on the street.
# Women who sit conversing in their neighbor's house.
# A woman who is always staring at you.
# A female messenger.
# A woman who looks sideways at you.
# A woman whose husband has taken another wife without any just cause.
# A woman who hates her husband, or who is hated by him.
# A woman who has nobody to look after her, or keep her in check.
# A woman who has not had any children.
# A woman whose family or caste is not well known.
# A woman whose children are dead.
# A woman who is very fond of society.
# A woman who is apparently very affectionate with her husband.
# The wife of an actor.
# A widow.
# A poor woman.
# A woman fond of enjoyments.
# The wife of a man with many younger brothers.
# A vain woman.
# A woman whose husband is inferior to her in rank or abilities.
# A woman who is proud of her skill in the arts.
# A woman disturbed in mind by the folly of her husband.
# A woman who has been married in her infancy to a rich man, and not liking him when she grows up, desires a man possessing a disposition, talents, and wisdom suitable to her own tastes.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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# A woman who is not respected by other women of the same rank or beauty as herself.
# A woman whose husband is devoted to travelling.
# The wife of a jeweller.
# A jealous woman.
# A covetous woman.
# An immoral woman.
# A barren woman.
# A lazy woman.
# A cowardly woman.
# A humpbacked woman.
# A dwarfish woman.
# A deformed woman.
# A vulgar woman.
# An ill-smelling woman.
# A sick woman.
# An old woman.

There are also two verses on the subject as follows:

&quot;Desire, which springs from nature, and which is increased by art, and from which all danger is taken away by wisdom, becomes firm and secure. A clever man, depending on his own ability, and observing carefully the ideas and thoughts of women, and removing the causes of their turning away from men, is generally successful with them.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2188" sha1="qy6mhxt3voxagska08k1hbcjx2il0hs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER II.}}
{{ph/sub|About Making Acquaintance with the Woman, and of the Efforts to Gain Her Over}}

{{sc|Ancient}} authors are of opinion that girls are not so easily seduced by employing female messengers as by the efforts of the man himself, but that the wives of others are more easily got at by the aid of female messengers than by the personal efforts of the man. But ''Vatsyayana'' lays it down that whenever it is possible a man should always act himself in these matters, and it is only when such is impracticable, or impossible, that female messengers should be employed. As for the saying that women who act and talk boldly and freely are to be won by the personal efforts of the man, and that women who do not possses those qualities are to be got at by female messengers, it is only a matter of talk.

Now when a man acts himself in the matter he should first of all make the acquaintance of the woman he loves in the following manner.

1st. He should arrange to be seen by the woman either on a natural or special opportunity. A natural opportunity is when one of them goes to the house of the other, and a special opportunity is when they meet either at the house of a friend, or a caste-fellow, or a minister, or a physician, as also on the occasion of marriage ceremonies, sacrifices, festivals, funerals, and garden parties.

2nd. Whenever they do meet, the man should be careful to look at her in such a way as to cause the state of his mind to be known to her; he should pull about his moustache, make a sound with his nails, cause his own ornaments to tinkle, bite his lower lip, and make various other signs of that description. When she is looking at him he should speak to his friends about her and other women, and should show to her his liberality and his appreciation of enjoyments. When sitting by the side of a female friend he should yawn and twist his body, contract his eyebrows, speak very slowly as if he was weary, and listen to her indifferently. A conversation having two meanings should also be carried on with a child or some other person, apparently having regard to a third person, but really having reference to the woman he&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center|108}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2533" sha1="hicxgdy5p6cg063178vfjn26x0pgvou" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|109}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;loves, and in this way his love should be made manifest under the pretext of referring to others rather than to herself. He should make marks that have reference to her, on the earth with his nails, or with a stick, and should embrace and kiss a child in her presence, and give it the mixture of betel nut and betel leaves with his tongue, and press its chin with his fingers in a caressing way. All these things should be done at the proper time and in proper places.

3rd. The man should fondle a child that may be sitting on her lap, and give it something to play with, and also take the same back again. Conversation with respect to the child may also be held with her, and in this manner he should gradually become well acquainted with her, and he should also make himself agreeable to her relations. Afterwards, this acquaintance should be made a pretext for visiting her house frequently, and on such occasions he should converse on the subject of love in her absence, but within her hearing. As his intimacy with her increases he should place in her charge some kind of deposit or trust, and take away from it a small portion at a time; or he may give her some fragrant substances, or betel nuts to be kept for him by her. After this he should endeavor to make her well acquainted with his own wife, and get them to carry on confidential conversations, and to sit together in lonely places. In order to see her frequently he should arrange so that the same goldsmith, the same jeweller, the same basket maker, the same dyer, and the same washerman should be employed by the two families. And he should also pay her long visits openly under the pretence of being engaged with her on business, and one business should lead to another, so as to keep up the intercourse between them. Whenever she wants anything, or is in need of money, or wishes to acquire skill in one of the arts, he should cause her to understand that he is willing and able to do anything that she wants, to give her money, or teach her one of the arts, all these things being quite within his ability and power. In the same way he should hold discussions with her in company with other people, and they should talk of the doings and sayings of other persons, and examine different things like jewellery, precious stones, etc. On such occasions he should show her certain things with the values of which she may be unacquainted, and if she begins to dispute with him about the things or their value, he should not&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2302" sha1="flghal1zeg5797w8bo5mwzslqwse1q7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|110|''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''| }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;contradict her, but point out that he agrees with her in every way.

Thus end the ways of making the acquaintance of the woman desired.

Now after a girl has become acquainted with the man as above described, and has manifested her love to him by the various outward signs, and by the motions of her body, the man should make every effort to gain her over. But as girls are not acquainted with sexual union they should be treated with the greatest delicacy, and the man should proceed with considerable caution, though in the case of other women accustomed to sexual intercourse this is not necessary. When the intentions of the girl are known, and her bashfulness put aside, the man should begin to make use of her money, and an interchange of clothes, rings, and flowers should be made. In this the man should take particular care that the things given by him are handsome and valuable. He should moreover receive from her a mixture of betel nut and betel leaves, and when he is going to a party he should ask for the flower in her hair, or for the flower in her hand. If he himself gives her a flower it should be a sweet-smelling one, and marked with marks made by his nails or teeth. With increasing assiduity he should dispel her fears, and by degrees get her to go with him to some lonely place, and there he should embrace and kiss her. And finally at the time of giving her some betel nut, or of receiving the same from her, or at the time of making an exchange of flowers, he should touch and press her private parts, thus bringing his efforts to a satisfactory conclusion.

When a man is endeavoring to seduce one woman, he should not attempt to seduce any other at the same time. But after he has succeeded with the first, and enjoyed her for a considerable time, he can keep her affections by giving her presents that she likes, and then commence making up to another woman. When a man sees the husband of a woman going to some place near his house, he should not enjoy the woman then, even though she may be easily gained over at that time. A wise man having a regard for his reputation should not think of seducing a woman who is apprehensive,  timid, not to be trusted, well guarded, or possessed of a father-in-law or mother-in-law.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/145</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132900</id>
      <parentid>8987052</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:51:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132900</origin>
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      <text bytes="2158" sha1="73309vdut8wpcc8b6pg277mbwjncr8c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER III.}}
{{ph/sub|Examination of the State of a Woman's Mind}}

{{sc|When}} a man is trying to gain over a woman he should examine the state of her mind, and act as follows.

If she listens to him, but does not manifest to him in any way her own intentions, he should then try to gain her over by means of a go-between.

If she meets him once, and again comes to meet him better dressed than before, or comes to him in some lonely place, he should be certain that she is capable of being enjoyed by the use of a little force. A woman who lets a man make up to her, but does not give herself up, even after a long time, should be considered as a trifler in love, but owing to the  fickleness of the human mind, even such a woman can be conquered by always keeping up a close acquaintance with her.

When a woman avoids the attentions of a man, and on account of respect for him, and pride in herself, will not meet him or approach him, she can be gained over with difficulty, either by endeavoring to keep on familiar terms with her, or else by an exceedingly clever go-between.

When a man makes up to a woman, and she reproaches him with harsh words, she should be abandoned at once.

When a woman reproaches a man, but at the same time acts affectionately towards him, she should be made love to in every way.

A woman, who meets a man in lonely places, and puts up with the touch of his foot, but pretends, on account of the indecision of her mind, not be aware of it, should be conquered by patience, and by continued efforts as follows:

If she happens to go to sleep in his vicinity he should put his left arm around her, and see when she awakens whether she repulses him in reality, or only repulses him in such a way as if she was desirous of the same thing being done to her again. And what is done by the arm can also be done by the foot. If the man succeeds in this point he should embrace her more closely, and if she will not stand the embrace and gets up, but behaves with him as usual the next day, he should consider then that she is not unwilling to be enjoyed by him. If, however, she does not appear again, the man&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center|111}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/146</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:51:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2111" sha1="27nmqxfb4qygirwpduo51opb9vw3ti1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|112|''The Kama Sutra''| }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;should try to get over her by means of a go-between; and if, after having disappeared for some time she again appears, and behaves with him as usual, the man should then consider that she would not object to be united with him.

When a woman gives a man an opportunity, and makes her own love manifest to him, he should proceed to enjoy her. And the signs of a woman manifesting her love are these :

# She calls out to a man without being addressed by him in the first instance.
# She shows herself to him in secret places.
# She speaks to him tremblingly and inarticulately.
# She has the fingers of her hand, and the toes of her feet moistened with perspiration, and her face blooming with delight.
# She occupies herself with shampooing his body and pressing his head.
# When shampooing him she works with one hand only, and with the other she touches and embraces parts of his body.
# She remains with both hands placed on his body motionless as if she had been surprised by something, or was overcome by fatigue.
# She sometimes bends down her face upon his thighs, and when asked to shampoo them does not manifest any unwillingness to do so.
# She places one of her hands quite motionless on his body, and even though the man should press it between two members of his body, she does not remove it for a long time.
# Lastly, when she has resisted all the efforts of the man to gain her over, she returns to him the next day to shampoo his body as before.

When a woman neither gives encouragement to a man, nor avoids him, but hides herself and remains in some lonely place, she must be got at by means of the female servant who may be near her. If when called by the man she acts in the same way, then she should be gained over by means of a skillful go-between. But if she will have nothing to say to the man, he should consider well about her before he begins any further attempts to gain her over.

Thus ends the examination of the state of a woman's mind.

A man should first get himself introduced to a woman, and then carry on a conversation with her. He should give&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/147</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2360904</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132903</id>
      <parentid>8987063</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:51:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="673" sha1="sukl4jmk371u88z6frgaoribuf4jbb3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''| }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;her hints of his love for her, and if he finds from her replies that she receives these hints favorably, he should then set to work to gain her over without any fear. A woman who shows her love by outward signs to the man at his first interview should be gained over very easily. In the same way a lascivious woman, who when addressed in loving words replies openly in words expressive of her love, should be considered to have been gained over at that very moment. With regard to all women, whether they be wise, simple, or confiding, this rule is laid down that those who make an open manifestation of their love are easily gained over.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/148</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2361148</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132904</id>
      <parentid>12443081</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:53:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132904</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2185" sha1="qsn2onusqre3bh81dbgj90nwe3g0yrz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER IV.}}
{{ph/sub|About the Business of a Go-Between}}

{{sc|If a}} woman has manifested her love or desire either by signs or by motions of the body, and is afterwards rarely or never seen any where, or if a woman is met for the first time, the man should get a go-between to approach her.

Now the go-between, having wheedled herself into the confidence of the woman by acting according to her disposition, should try to make her hate or despise her husband by holding artful conversations with her, by telling her about medicines for getting children, by talking to her about other people, by tales of various kinds, by stories about the wives of other men, and by praising her beauty, wisdom, generosity and good nature, and saying to her: &quot;It is indeed a pity that you, who are so excellent a woman in every way, should be possessed of a husband of this kind. Beautiful lady, he is not fit even to serve you.&quot; The go-between should further talk to the woman about the weakness of the passion of her husband, his jealousy, his roguery, his ingratitude, his aversion to enjoyments, his dullness, his meanness, and all the other faults that he may have, and with which she may be acquainted. She should particularly harp upon that fault or failing by which the wife may appear to be most affected. If the wife be a ''deer-woman'', and the husband a ''hare-man'', then there would be no fault in that direction, but in the event of his being a ''hare-man'', and she a ''mare-woman'', or ''elephant-woman'', then this fault should be pointed out to her.

''Gonikaputra'' is of opinion that when it is the first affair of the woman, or when her love has only been very secretly shown, the man should then secure and send to her a go-between, with whom she may be already acquainted, and in whom she confides.

But to return to our subject. The go-between should tell the woman about the obedience and love of the man, and as her confidence and affection increase, she should then explain to her the thing to be accomplished in the following way: &quot;Hear this, O beautiful lady, that this man, born of a good family, having seen you, has gone mad on your account. The&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rh||114|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/149</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2361149</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132905</id>
      <parentid>8987067</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:54:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132905</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2622" sha1="7wf7b9jz5luf5yz07akrwyumqov423x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|115}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;poor young man, who is tender by nature, has never been distressed in such a way before, and it is highly probable that he will succumb under his present affliction, and experience the pains of death.&quot; If the woman listens with a favorable ear, then on the following day the go-between, having observed marks of good spirits in her face, in her eyes, and in her manner of conversation, should again converse with her on the subject of the man, and should tell her the stories of ''Ahalya''&lt;ref&gt;The wife of the sage Gautama, she was seduced by Indra the king of the Gods.&lt;/ref&gt; and ''Indra'', of ''Sakoontala''&lt;ref&gt;The heroine of one of the best, if not the best, of Hindoo plays, and the best known in Sanscrit dramatic literature. It was first brought to notice by Sir William Jones, and has been well and poetically translated by ''Dr. Monier Williams'' under the title of ''Sakoontala'' or ''The Lost Ring'', an Indian drama, translated into English prose and verse from the Sanscrit of ''Kalidasa''.&lt;/ref&gt; and ''Dushyanti'', and such others as may be fitted for the occasion. She should also describe to her the strength of the man, his talents, his skill in the sixty-four sorts of enjoyments mentioned by ''Babhravya'', his good looks, and his liaison with some praiseworthy woman, no matter whether this last ever took place or not.

In addition to this, the go-between should carefully note the behavior of the woman, which if favorable would be as follows: She would address her with a smiling look, would seat herself close beside her and ask her, &quot;Where have you been? What have you been doing? Where did you dine? Where did you sleep? Where have you been sitting?&quot; Moreover the woman would meet the go-between in lonely places and tell her stories there, would yawn contemplatively, draw long sighs, give her presents, remember her on occasions of festivities, dismiss her with a wish to see her again, and say to her jestingly, &quot;O, well-speaking woman, why do you speak these bad words to me?&quot; would discourse on the sin of her union with the man, would not tell her about any previous visits or conversations that she may have had with him, but wish to be asked about these, and lastly would laugh at the man's desire, but would not reproach him in any way.

Thus ends the behavior of the woman with the go-between.

When the woman manifests her love in the manner above described, the go-between should increase it by bringing to her love-tokens from the man. But if the women be not acquainted with the man personally, the go-between should&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/150</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2361152</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132908</id>
      <parentid>8987068</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:55:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132908</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2476" sha1="j300wjups76e0idyxttwc327i29kkvt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|116|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;win her over by extolling and praising his good qualities, and by telling stories about his love for her. Here ''Auddalaka'' says that when a man or woman are not personally acquainted with each other, and have not shown each other any signs of affection, the employment of a go-between is useless.

The followers of ''Babhravya'' on the other hand, affirm that even though they be personally unacquainted, but have shown each other signs of affection there is an occasion for the employment of a go-between. ''Gonikaputra'' asserts that a go-between should be employed, provided they are acquainted with each other, even though no signs of affection may have passed between them. ''Vatsyayana'', however, lays it down that even though they may not be personally acquainted with each other and may not have shown each other any signs of affection, still they are both capable of placing confidence in a go-between.

Now the go-between should show the woman the presents, such as the betel nut and the betel leaves, the perfumes, the flowers, and the rings which the man may have given to her for the sake of the woman, and on these presents should be impressed the marks of the man's teeth, and nails, and other signs. On the cloth that he may send he should draw with saffron both his hands joined together as if in earnest entreaty.

The go-between should also show to the woman ornamental figures of various kinds cut in leaves, together with car ornaments, and chaplets made of flowers containing love letters expressive of the desire of the man, and she should cause her to send affectionate presents to the man in return. After they have mutually accepted each other's presents, then a meeting should be arranged between them on the faith of the go-between.

The followers of ''Babhravya'' say that this meeting should take place at the time of going to the temple of a Deity, or on occasions of fairs, garden parties, theatrical performances, marriages, sacrfices, festivals and funerals, as also at the time of going to the river to bathe, or at times of natural calamities,&lt;ref&gt;It is supposed that storms, earthquakes, famines, and pestilent diseases are here alluded to.&lt;/ref&gt; fear of robbers or hostile invasions of the country.

''Gonikaputra'' is of opinion, however, that these meetings had better be brought about in the abodes of female friends, mendicants, astrologers, and ascetics. But ''Vatasyayana'' de-&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/151</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2361154</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132909</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132909</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2202" sha1="hbfc1545lvtfd89jdgxv5jihgss0692" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|117}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;cides that that place is only well suited for the purpose which has proper means of ingress and egress, and where arrangements have been made to prevent any accidental occurrence, and when a man who has once entered the house, can also leave it at the proper time without any disagreeable encounter.

Now go-betweens or female messengers are of the following different kinds, viz.:

: (1) A go-between who takes upon herself the whole burden of the business.
: (2) A go-between who does only a limited part of the business.
: (3) A go-between who is the bearer of a letter only.
: (4) A go-between acting on her own account.
: (5) The go-between of an innocent young woman.
: (6) A wife serving as a go-between.
: (7) A mute go-between.
: (8) A go-between who acts the part of the wind.

(1) A woman who, having observed the mutual passion of a man and a woman, brings them together and arranges it by the power of her own intellect, such an one is called a go-between who takes upon herself the whole burden of the business. This kind of go-between is chiefly employed when the man and the woman are already acquainted with each other, and have conversed together, and in such cases she is sent not only by the man (as is always done in all other cases) but by the woman also.— The above name is also
given to a go-between who, perceiving that the man and the woman are suited to each other, tries to bring about a union between them even though they be not acquainted with each other.

(2) A go-between who, perceiving that some part of the affair is already done, or that the advances on the part of the man are already made, completes the rest of the business is called a go-between who performs only a limited part of the business.

(3) A go-between, who simply carries messages between a man and a woman who love each other, but who cannot frequently meet, is called the bearer of a letter or message.

This name is also given to one who is sent by either of the lovers to acquaint either the one or the other with the time and place of their meeting.

(4) A woman who goes herself to a man, and tells him of her having enjoyed sexual union with him in a dream, and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/152</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2361157</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132910</id>
      <parentid>8987071</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:56:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132910</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2342" sha1="3h13rytbo0re9eevuw6txuebcgqpjxp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|118|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;expresses her anger at his wife having rebuked him for calling her by the name of her rival instead of by her own name, and gives him something bearing the marks of her teeth and nails and informs him that she knew she was formerly desired by him, and asks him privately whether she or his wife is the better looking, such a person is called a woman who is a go-between for herself. Now such a woman should be met and interviewed by the man in private and secretly.

The above name is also given to a woman who having made an agreement with some other woman to act as her go-between, gains over the man to herself, by the means of making him personally acquainted with herself, and thus causes the other woman to fail. The same applies to a man who, acting as a go-between for another, and having no previous connection with the woman, gains her over for himself, and thus causes the failure of the other man.

(5) A woman, who has gained the confidence of the innocent young wife of any man, and who has learned her secrets without exercising any pressure on her mind, and found out from her how her husband behaves to her, if this woman then teaches her the art of securing his favor, and decorates her so as to show her love, and instructs her how and when to be angry, or to pretend to be so, and then, having herself made marks of the nails and teeth on the body of the wife, gets the latter to send for her husband to show these marks to him, and thus excite him for enjoyment, such is called the go-between of an innocent young woman. In such cases the man should send replies to his wife through the same woman.

(6) When a man gets his wife to gain the confidence of a woman whom he wants to enjoy, and to call on her and talk to her about the wisdom and ability of her husband, that wife is called a wife serving as a go-between. In this case the feelings of the woman with regard to the man should also be made known through the wife.

(7) When a man sends a girl or a female servant to any woman under some pretext or other, and places a letter in her bouquet of flowers, or in her ear ornaments, or marks something about her with his teeth or nails, that girl or female servant is called a mute go-between. In this case the man should expect an answer from the woman through the same person.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/153</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2361158</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132911</id>
      <parentid>8987074</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:57:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132911</origin>
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      <text bytes="1296" sha1="dgfgha8hq7n42as24dgs1avugjogavh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|119}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;(8) A person who carries a message to a woman which has a double meaning, or which relates to some past transactions, or which is unintelligible to other people, is called a go-between who acts the part of the wind. In this case the reply should be asked for through the same woman.

Thus end the different kinds of go-betweens.

A female astrologer, a female servant, a female begger, or a female artist are well acquainted with the business of a go-between, and very soon gain the confidence of other women. Any one of them can raise enmity between any two persons if she wishes to do so, or extol the loveliness of any woman that she wishes to praise, or describe the arts practiced by other women in sexual union. They can also speak highly of the love of a man, of his skill in sexual enjoyment, and of the desire of other women, more beautiful even than the woman they are addressing, for him, and explain the restraint under which he may be at home.

Lastly, a go-between can, by the artfulness of her conversation unite a woman with a man, even though he may not have been thought of by her, or may have been considered beyond his aspirations. She can also bring back a man to a woman, who owing to some cause or other, has separated himself from her.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/154</title>
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      <id>15132924</id>
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      <text bytes="2140" sha1="jqqkhvz9s375hls7uu9si3v1k5gewul" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER V.}}
{{ph/sub|About the Love of Persons in Authority for the Wives of Other Men.}}

{{sc|Kings}} and their ministers have no access to the abodes of others, and moreover their mode of living is constantly watched and observed and imitated by the people at large, just as the animal world, seeing the sun rise, get up after him, and when he sets in the evening, lie down again in the same way. Persons in authority should not therefore do any improper act in public, as such are impossible from their position, and would be deserving of censure. But if they find that such an act is necessary to be done, they should make use of the proper means as described in the following paragraphs.

The head man of the village, the Kings' officer employed there, and the man&lt;ref&gt;This is a phrase used for the man who does the work of everybody, and who is fed by the whole village. &lt;/ref&gt; whose business it is to glean corn, can gain over female villagers simply by asking them. It is on this account that this class of woman are called unchaste women by voluptuaries.

The union of the above mentioned men with this class of woman takes place on the occasions of unpaid labor, of filling the graneries in their houses, of taking things in and out of the house, of cleaning the houses, of working in the fields, and of purchasing cotton, wool, flax, hemp, and thread, and at the season of the purchase, sale, and exchange of various other articles, as well as at the time of doing various other works. In the same way the superintendents of cow pens enjoy the women in the cow pens; and officers, who have the superintendence of widows, of women who are without supporters, and of women who have left their husbands, have sexual intercourse with these women. The intelligent accomplish their object by wandering at night in the village, while villagers also unite with the wives of their sons, being much alone with them. Lastly the superintendents of markets have a great deal to do with female villagers at the time of their making purchases in the market.

During the festival of the eighth moon, i.e., during the&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/155</title>
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      <text bytes="2621" sha1="tamij7i4mzw7qz4z5fa4n4pck4izqa4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|121 }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;bright half of the month of ''Nargashirsha'', as also during the moonlight festival of the month of ''Kartika'', and the spring festival of ''Chaitra'', the women of cities and towns generally visit the women of the King's harem in the royal palace. These visitors go to the several apartments of the women of the harem, as they are acquainted with them, and pass the night in conversation, and in proper sports, and amusement, and go away in the morning. On such occasions, a female attendant of the King, (previously acquainted with the woman whom the King desires), should loiter about, and accost this woman when she sets out to go home, and induce her to come and see the amusing things in the palace. Previous to these festivals even, she should have caused it to be intimated to this woman that on the occasion of this festival she would show her all the interesting things in the royal palace. Accordingly she should show her the bower of the coral creeper, the garden house with its floor inlaid with precious stones, the bower of grapes, the building on the water, the secret passages in the walls of the palace, the pictures, the sporting animals, the machines, the birds, and the cages of the lions and the tigers. After this, when alone with her, she should tell her about the love of the King for her, and should describe to her the good fortune which would attend upon her union with the King, giving her at the time a strict promise of secrecy. If the woman does not accept the offer, she should conciliate and please her with handsome presents befitting the position of the King, and having accompanied her for some distance should dismiss her with great affection.

(2) Or, having made the acquaintance of the husband of the woman whom the King desires, the wives of the King should get the wife to pay them a visit in the harem, and on this occasion a female attendant of the king, having been sent thither, should act as above described.

(3) Or, one of the King's wives should get acquainted with the woman that the King desires, by sending one of the female attendants to her, who should, on their becoming more intimate, induce her to come and see the royal abode. Afterwards when she has visited the harem, and acquired confidence, a female confidant of the King, sent thither, should act as before described.

(4) Or, the King's wife should invite the woman, whom the King desires, to come to the royal palace, so that she might see the practice of the art in which the King's wife may be skilled, and after she has come to the harem, a female attend-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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(5) Or, a female beggar, in league with the King's wife, should say to the woman desired by the King, and whose husband may have lost his wealth, or may have some cause of fear from the King: &quot;This wife of the King has influence over him, and she is, moreover, naturally kind-hearted, we must therefore go to her in this matter. I shall arrange for your entrance into the harem, and she will do away with all cause of danger and fear from the King.&quot; If the woman accepts this offer, the female beggar should take her two or three times to the harem, and the King's wife there should give her a promise of protection. After this, when the woman, delighted with her reception and promise of protection, again goes to the harem, then a female attendant of the King, sent thither, should act as directed.

(6) What has been said above regarding the wife of one who has some cause of fear from the King, applies also to the wives of those who seek service under the King, or who are oppressed by the King's ministers, or who are poor, or who are not satisfied with their position, or who are desirous of gaining the King's favor, or who wish to become famous among the people, or who are oppressed by the members of their own caste, or who want to injure their caste fellows, or who are spies of the King, or who have any other object to attain.

(7) Lastly, if the woman desired by the King be living with some person who is not her husband, then the King should cause her to be arrested, and having made her a slave, on account of her crime, should place her in the harem. Or the King should cause his ambassador to quarrel with the husband of the woman desired by him, and should then imprison her as the wife of an enemy of the King, and by this means should place her in the harem.

Thus end the means of gaining over the wives of others secretly.

The above mentioned ways of gaining over the wives of other men are chiefly practiced in the palaces of Kings. But a King should never enter the abode of another person, for ''Abhira''&lt;ref&gt;The exact date of the reign of these kings is not known. It is supposed to have been about the beginning of the Christian era.&lt;/ref&gt; the ''King of the Kottas'' was killed by a washerman while in the house of another, and in the same way ''Jayasana'' the ''King of the Kashis'' was slain by the commandment of his cavalry.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/157</title>
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      <text bytes="1899" sha1="skezwf0zrpp10viu05tacjk707kaw4v" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|123}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;But according to the customs of some countries there are facilities for Kings to make love to the wives of other men. Thus in the country of the Andras&lt;ref&gt;The modern country of ''Tailangam'' which is to the South of ''Rajamundry''.&lt;/ref&gt; the newly married daughters of the people thereof enter the King's harem with some presents on the tenth day of their marriage, and having been enjoyed by the King are then dismissed. In the country of the ''Vatsagulmas''&lt;ref&gt;Supposed to be a tract of the country to the South of ''Malwa''.&lt;/ref&gt; the wives of the chief ministers approach the King at night to serve him. In the country of the ''Vaidarbhas''&lt;ref&gt;Now known by the name of ''Berar''. Its capital was ''Kundinpura'', which has been identified with the modern ''Oomravati''.&lt;/ref&gt; the beautiful wives of the inhabitants pass a month in the King's harem under the pretence of affection for the King. In the country of the ''Aparatakas''&lt;ref&gt;Also called ''Aparantakas'', being the northern and southern ''Concan''.&lt;/ref&gt; the people gave their beautiful wives as presents to the ministers and the Kings. And lastly in the country of the ''Saurashtras''&lt;ref&gt;The modern provinces of ''Katteeawar''. Its capital was called ''Ginnaguda'', or the modern ''Junagurh.''&lt;/ref&gt; the women of the city and country enter the royal harem for the King's pleasure either together or separately.

There are also two verses on the subject as follows:

&quot;The above and other ways are the means employed in different countries by Kings with regards to the wives of other persons. But a King, who has the welfare of his people at heart, should not on any account put them into practice.&quot;

&quot;A King, who has conquered the six&lt;ref&gt;These are Lust, Anger, Avarice, Spiritual Ignorance, Pride, and Envy.&lt;/ref&gt; enemies of mankind, becomes the master of the whole earth.&quot;
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/158</title>
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      <text bytes="2222" sha1="kdu140nrw1hgx2tc9uuqtl7nf7g3eru" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER VI.}}
{{ph/sub|About the Women of the Royal Harem; and of the Keeping of One's Own Wife.}}

{{sc|The}} women of the royal harem cannot see or meet any men on account of their being strictly guarded, neither do they have their desires satisfied, because their only husband is common to many wives. For this reason among themselves they give pleasure to each other in various ways as now described. Having dressed the daughters of their nurses, or their female friends, or their female attendants, like men, they accomplish their object by means of bulbs, roots, and fruits having the form of the lingam, or they lie down upon the statue of the male figure, in which the lingam is visible and erect.

Some Kings, who are compassionate, take or apply certain medicines to enable them to enjoy many wives in one night, simply for the purpose of satisfying the desire of their women, though they perhaps have no desire of their own. Others enjoy with great affection only those wives that they particularly like, while others only take them, according as the turn of each wife arrives, in due course. Such are the ways of enjoyment prevalent in Eastern countries, and what is said about the means of enjoyment of the females is also applicable to the males.

By means of their female attendants the ladies of the royal harem generally get men into their apartments in the disguise or dress of women. Their female attendants, and the daughters of their nurses, who are acquainted with their secrets, should exert themselves to get men to come to the harem in this way by telling them of the good fortune attending it, and by describing the facilities of entering and leaving the palace, the large size of the premises, the carelessness of the sentinels, and the irregularities of the attendants about the persons of the royal wives. But these women should never induce a man to enter the harem by telling him falsehoods, for that would probably lead to his destruction.

As for the man himself he had better not enter a royal harem, even though it may be easily accessible, on account of the numerous disasters to which he may be exposed there. If however he wants to enter it, he should first ascertain&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rh||124|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2633" sha1="dssp72e5o5t24x7v41ozk1ow3dbz0xe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|125}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;whether there is an easy way to get out, whether it is closely surrounded by the pleasure garden, whether it has separate enclosures belonging to it, whether the sentinels are careless, whether the King has gone abroad, and then, when he is called by the women of the harem, he should carefully observe the localities, and enter by the way pointed out by them. If he is able to manage it, he should hang about the harem every day, and, under some pretext or other, make friends with the sentinels, and show himself attached to the female attendants of the harem, who may have become acquainted with his design, and to whom he should express his regret at  not being able to obtain the object of his desire. Lastly he should cause the whole business of a go-between to be done by the woman who may have access to the harem, and he should be careful to be able to recognize the emissaries of the King.

When a go-between has no access to the harem, then the man should stand in some place where the lady, whom he loves, and whom he is anxious to enjoy, can be seen. If that place is occupied by the King's sentinels, he should then disguise himself as a female attendant of the lady who comes to the place, or passes by it. When she looks at him he should let her know his feelings by outward signs and gestures, and should show her pictures, things with double meanings, chaplets of flowers, and rings. He should carefully mark the answer she gives, whether by word or by sign, or by gesture, and should then try and get into the harem. If he is certain of her coming to some particular place, he should conceal himself there, and at the appointed time should enter along with her as one of the guards. He may also go in and out, concealed in a folded bed, or bed covering, or with his body made invisible,&lt;ref&gt;The way to make oneself invisible: the knowledge of the art of transmigration, or changing ourselves or others into any shape or form by the use of charms and spells: the power of being in two places at once, and other occult sciences are frequently referred to in all oriental literature.&lt;/ref&gt; by means of external applications, a receipt for one of which is as follows:

The heart of an ichneumon, the fruit of the long gourd (''tumbi''), and the eyes of a serpent should all be burnt without letting out the smoke, the ashes should then be ground and mixed in equal quantities with water. By putting this mixture upon the eyes a man can go about unseen.

Other means of invisibility are prescribed by ''Duyana'', ''Brahmans'' and ''Jogashiras''.
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      <text bytes="2600" sha1="qj92maww0yo2n5rk3jqd7kv17jscnmm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|126|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Again the man may enter the harem during the festival of the eighth moon in the month of ''Nargashirsha'', and during the moonlight festivals when the female attendants of the harem are all busily occupied, or in confusion.

The following principles are laid down on this subject.

The entrance of young men into harems, and their exit from them, generally take place when things are being brought into the palace, or when things are being taken out of it, or when drinking festivals are going on, or when the female attendants are in a hurry, or when the residence of some of the royal ladies is being changed, or when the King's wives go to gardens, or to fairs, or when they enter the palace on their return from them, or lastly, when the King is absent on a long pilgrimage. The women of the royal harem know each other's secrets, and having but one object to attain, they give assistance to each other. A young man, who enjoys all of them, and who is common to them all, can continue enjoying his union with them so long as it is kept quiet, and is not known abroad.

Now in the country of the ''Aparatakas'' the royal ladies are not well protected, and consequently many young men are passed into the harem by the women who have access to the royal palace. The wives of the King of the ''Ahira'' country accomplish their objects with those sentinels in the harem who bear the name of ''Kshtriyas''. The royal ladies in the country of the ''Vatsagulmas'' cause such men as are suitable to enter into the harem along with their female messengers. In the country of the ''Vaidarbhas'' the sons of the royal ladies enter the royal harem when they please, and enjoy the women, with the exception of their own mothers. In the ''Stri-rajya'' the wives of the King are enjoyed by his caste fellows and relations. In the ''Ganda'' country the royal wives are enjoyed by ''Brahmans'', friends, servants, and slaves. In the ''Samdhava'' country, servants, foster children, and other persons like them enjoy the women of the harem. In the country of the ''Haimavatas'' adventurous citizens bribe the sentinels and enter the harem. In the country the ''Vanyas'' and the ''Kalmyas'', ''Brahmans'', with the knowledge of the King, enter the harem under the pretence of giving flowers to the ladies, and speak with them from behind a curtain, and from such conversation union afterwards takes place. Lastly the women in the harem of the ''King of the Prachyas'' conceal one young man in the harem for every batch of nine or ten of the women.

Thus act the wives of others.
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      <text bytes="2515" sha1="4hkxcjn0az4bvgcbatpuhhld7r0iq95" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|127 }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;For these reasons a man should guard his own wife. Old authors say that a King should select for sentinels in his harem such men as have had their freedom from carnal desires well tested. But such men, though free themselves from carnal desire, by reason of their fear or avarice, may cause other persons to enter the harem, and therefore ''Gonikaputra'' says, that Kings should place such men in the harem as may have had their freedom from carnal desires, their fears, and their avarice well tested. Lastly ''Vatsyayana'' says that under the influence of ''Dharma''&lt;ref&gt;This may be considered as meaning religious influence, and alludes to persons who might be gained over by that means.&lt;/ref&gt; people might be admitted,
and therefore men should be selected who are free from carnal desires, fear, avarice, and Dharma&lt;ref&gt;It will be noted from the above remarks that eunuchs do not appear to have been employed in the King's harem in those days, though they seem to have been employed for other purposes. Sec Part 2, page 60.&lt;/ref&gt;.

The followers of ''Babhravya'' say that a man should cause his wife to associate with a young woman who would tell him the secrets of other people, and thus find out from her about his wife's chastity. But ''Vatsyayana'' says, that as wicked persons are always successful with women, a man should not cause his innocent wife to be corrupted by bringing her into the company of a deceitful woman.

The following are the causes of the destruction of a woman's chastity.

{{plainlist|
* Always going into society, and sitting in company.
* Absence of restraint.
* The loose habits of her husband.
* Want of caution in her relations with other men.
* Continued and long absence of her husband.
* Living in a foreign country.
* Destruction of her love and feelings by her husband.
* The company of loose women.
* The jealousy of her husband.
}}

There are also the following verses on the subject.

&quot;A clever man, learning from the ''Shastras'' the ways of winning over the wives of other people, is never deceived in the case of his own wives. No one, however, should make use of these ways for seducing the wives of others, because they do not always succeed, and, moreover, often cause disasters, and the destruction of ''Dharma'' and ''Artha''. This book, which is intended for the good of the people, and to teach them the ways of guarding their own wives, should not be made use of merely for gaining over the wives of others.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{sc|About Courtezans}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{italic block|This Part VI., about courtezans, was prepared by Vatsyayana, from a treatise on the subject, that was written by ''Dattaka'', for the women of Pataliputra (the modern ''Patna''), some two thousand years ago. ''Dattaka's'' work does not appear to be extant now, but this abridgment of it is very clever, and quite equal to any of the productions of ''Emile Zola'', and other writers of the realistic school of today.

Although a great deal has been written on the subject of the courtezan, nowhere will be found a better description of her, of her belongings, of her ideas, and of the working of her mind, than is contained in the following pages.

The details of the domestic and social life of the early Hindoos would not be complete without mention of the courtezan, and Part VI, is entirely devoted to this subject. The Hindoos have ever had the good sense to recognize courtezans as a part and portion of human society, and so long as they behaved themselves with decency and propriety, they were regarded with a certain respect. Anyhow, they have never been treated in the East with that brutality and contempt so common in the West, while their education has always been of a superior kind to that bestowed upon the rest of womankind in Oriental countries.

In the earlier days the well-educated Hindoo dancing girl and courtezan doubtless resembled the ''hetæræ'' of the Greeks, and being educated and amusing, were far more acceptable as companions than the generality of the married or unmarried women of that period. At all times and in all countries, there has ever been a little rivalry between the chaste and the unchaste. But while some women are born courtezans, and follow the instincts of their nature in every class of society, it has been truly said by some authors that every woman has got an inkling of the profession in her nature, and does her best, as a general rule, to make herself agreeable to the male sex.

The subtlety of women, their wonderful perceptive powers, their knowledge, and their intuitive appreciation of men and things, are all shown in the following paqes, which may be looked upon as a concentrated essence that has been since worked up into detail by many writers in every quarter of the globe.}}
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{{italic block|This Part VI., about courtezans, was prepared by ''Vatsyayana'', from a treatise on the subject, that was written by ''Dattaka'', for the women of Pataliputra (the modern ''Patna''), some two thousand years ago. ''Dattaka's'' work does not appear to be extant now, but this abridgment of it is very clever, and quite equal to any of the productions of ''Emile Zola'', and other writers of the realistic school of today.

Although a great deal has been written on the subject of the courtezan, nowhere will be found a better description of her, of her belongings, of her ideas, and of the working of her mind, than is contained in the following pages.

The details of the domestic and social life of the early Hindoos would not be complete without mention of the courtezan, and Part VI, is entirely devoted to this subject. The Hindoos have ever had the good sense to recognize courtezans as a part and portion of human society, and so long as they behaved themselves with decency and propriety, they were regarded with a certain respect. Anyhow, they have never been treated in the East with that brutality and contempt so common in the West, while their education has always been of a superior kind to that bestowed upon the rest of womankind in Oriental countries.

In the earlier days the well-educated Hindoo dancing girl and courtezan doubtless resembled the ''hetæræ'' of the Greeks, and being educated and amusing, were far more acceptable as companions than the generality of the married or unmarried women of that period. At all times and in all countries, there has ever been a little rivalry between the chaste and the unchaste. But while some women are born courtezans, and follow the instincts of their nature in every class of society, it has been truly said by some authors that every woman has got an inkling of the profession in her nature, and does her best, as a general rule, to make herself agreeable to the male sex.

The subtlety of women, their wonderful perceptive powers, their knowledge, and their intuitive appreciation of men and things, are all shown in the following paqes, which may be looked upon as a concentrated essence that has been since worked up into detail by many writers in every quarter of the globe.}}
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{{ph/sub|Of the Causes of a Courtezan Resorting to Men; of the Means of Attaching to Herself the Man Desired; and of the Kind of Man that it is Desirable to be Acquainted with.}}

{{sc|By}} having intercourse with men courtezans obtain sexual pleasure as well as their own maintenance. Now when a courtezan takes up with a man from love, the action is natural; but when she resorts to him for the purpose of getting money, her action is artificial or forced. Even in this latter case, however, she should conduct herself as if her love were indeed natural, because men repose their confidence on those women who apparently love them. In making known her love to the man, she should show an entire freedom from avarice, and for the sake of her future credit she should abstain from acquiring money from him by unlawful means.

A courtezan, well dressed and wearing her ornaments, should sit or stand at the door of her house, and without exposing herself too much, should look on the public road so as to be seen by the passers-by, she being like an object on view for sale.&lt;ref&gt;In England the lower classes of courtezans walk the streets; in India and other places in the East, they sit at the windows, or at the doors of their houses.&lt;/ref&gt; She should form friendships with such persons as would enable her to separate men from other women, and attach them to herself, to repair her own misfortunes, to acquire wealth, and to protect her from being bullied, or set upon by persons with whom she may have dealings of some kind or another.

These persons are:

{{plainlist/s}}
* The guards of the town, or the police.
* The officers of the courts of justice.
* Astrologers.
* Powerful men, or men with interest.
* Learned men.
* Teachers of the sixty-four arts.
* ''Pithamardas'' or confidants.
* ''Vitas'' or parasites.
* ''Vidushakas'' or jesters.
* Flower sellers.
* Perfumers.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}
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{{plainlist/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* Vendors of spirits.
* Washermen.
* Barbers.
* Beggars.
* And such other persons as may be found necessary for the particular object to be acquired.
{{plainlist/e}}

The following kinds of men may be taken up with, simply for the purpose of getting their money:

{{plainlist|
* Men of independent income.
* Young men.
* Men who are free from any ties.
* Men who hold places of authority under the King.
* Men who have secured their means of livelihood without difficulty.
* Men possessed of unfailing sources of income.
* Men who consider themselves handsome.
* Men who are always praising themselves.
* One who is an eunuch, but wishes to be thought a man.
* One who hates his equals.
* One who is naturally liberal.
* One who has influence with the King or his ministers.
* One who is always fortunate.
* One who is proud of his wealth.
* One who disobeys the orders of his elders.
* One upon whom the members of his caste keep an eye.
* An only son whose father is wealthy.
* An ascetic who is internally troubled with desire.
* A brave man.
* A physician of the King.
* Previous acquaintances.
}}

On the other hand, those who are possessed of excellent qualities are to be resorted to for the sake of love and fame. Such men are as follows:

Men of high birth, learned, with a good knowledge of the world, and doing the proper things at the proper times, poets, good story tellers, eloquent men, energetic men, skilled in various arts, far-seeing into the future, possessed of great minds, full of perseverance, of a firm devotion, free from anger, liberal, affectionate to their parents, and with a liking for all social gatherings, skilled in completing verses begun&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2358" sha1="7jf7wr3l4kbmothqofs2uckepi9k6d3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|134|''The Kama Sutra''| }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;by others and in various other sports, free from all disease, possessed of a perfect body, strong, and not addicted to drinking, powerful in sexual enjoyment, sociable, showing love towards women and attracting their hearts to himself but not entirely devoted to them, possessed of independent means of livelihood, free from envy, and last of all, free from suspicion.

Such are the good qualities of a man.

The woman also should have the following characteristics, viz.:

She should be possessed of beauty, and amiability, with auspicious body marks. She should have a liking for good qualities in other people, as also a liking for wealth. She should take delight in sexual unions resulting from love, and should be of a firm mind, and of the same class as the man with regard to sexual enjoyment.

She should always be anxious to acquire and obtain experience and knowledge, be free from avarice, and always have a liking for social gatherings, and for the arts.

The following are the ordinary qualities of all women, viz.:

To be possessed of intelligence, good disposition, and good manners; to be straightforward in behavior, and to be grateful; to consider well the future before doing anything; to possess activity, to be of consistent behavior, and to have a knowledge of the proper times and places for doing things; to speak always without meanness, loud laughter, malignity, anger, avarice, dullness, or stupidity, to have a knowledge of the ''Kama Sutra'', and to be skilled in all the arts connected with it.

The faults of women are to be known by the absence of any of the above mentioned good qualities.

The following kinds of men are not fit to be resorted to by courtezans, viz.:

One who is consumptive; one who is sickly; one whose mouth contains worms; one whose breath smells like human excrement; one whose wife is dear to him; one who speaks harshly; one who is always suspicious; one who is avaricious; one who is pitiless; one who is a thief; one who is self-conceited; one who has a liking for sorcery; one who does not care for respect or disrespect; one who can be gained over even by his enemies by means of money; and, lastly, one who is extremely bashful.

Ancient authors are of opinion that the causes of a courtezan resorting to men are love, fear, money, pleasure, {{hws|s=re|e=turning}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Such are the good qualities of a man.

The woman also should have the following characteristics, viz.:

She should be possessed of beauty, and amiability, with auspicious body marks. She should have a liking for good qualities in other people, as also a liking for wealth. She should take delight in sexual unions resulting from love, and should be of a firm mind, and of the same class as the man with regard to sexual enjoyment.

She should always be anxious to acquire and obtain experience and knowledge, be free from avarice, and always have a liking for social gatherings, and for the arts.

The following are the ordinary qualities of all women, viz.:

To be possessed of intelligence, good disposition, and good manners; to be straightforward in behavior, and to be grateful; to consider well the future before doing anything; to possess activity, to be of consistent behavior, and to have a knowledge of the proper times and places for doing things; to speak always without meanness, loud laughter, malignity, anger, avarice, dullness, or stupidity, to have a knowledge of the ''Kama Sutra'', and to be skilled in all the arts connected with it.

The faults of women are to be known by the absence of any of the above mentioned good qualities.

The following kinds of men are not fit to be resorted to by courtezans, viz.:

One who is consumptive; one who is sickly; one whose mouth contains worms; one whose breath smells like human excrement; one whose wife is dear to him; one who speaks harshly; one who is always suspicious; one who is avaricious; one who is pitiless; one who is a thief; one who is self-conceited; one who has a liking for sorcery; one who does not care for respect or disrespect; one who can be gained over even by his enemies by means of money; and, lastly, one who is extremely bashful.

Ancient authors are of opinion that the causes of a courtezan resorting to men are love, fear, money, pleasure, re-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2513" sha1="70j9o0ommbqt7rglq7vyt1cj50pgmnx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|135}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;turning some act of enmity, curiosity, sorrow, constant intercourse, ''Dharma'', celebrity, compassion, the desire of having a friend, shame, the likeness of the man to some beloved person, the search after good fortune, the getting rid of the love of somebody else, the being of the same class as the man with respect to sexual union, living in the same place, constancy, and poverty. But ''Vatsyayana'' decides that desire of wealth, freedom from misfortune, and love, are the only causes that affect the union of courtezans with men.

Now a courtezan should not sacrifice money to her love, because money is the chief thing to be attended to. But in cases of fear, etc., she should pay regard to strength and other qualities. Moreover, even though she be invited by any man to join him, she should not at once consent to an union, because men are apt to despise things which are easily acquired. On such occasions she should first send the shampooers, and the singers, and the jesters, who may be in her service, or, in their absence the ''Pithamardas'', or confidants, and others, to find out the state of his feelings, and the condition of his mind. By means of these persons she should ascertain whether the man is pure or impure, affected, or the reverse, capable of attachment, or indifferent, liberal or niggardly; and if she finds him to her liking, she should then employ the ''Vita'' and others to attach his mind to her.

Accordinly, the ''Pithamarda'' should bring the man to her house, under the pretence of seeing the fights of quails, cocks, and rams, of hearing the maina (a kind of starling) talk, or of seeing some other spectacle, or the practice of some art; or he may take the woman to the abode of the man. After this, when the man comes to her house the woman should give him something capable of producing curiosity and love in his heart, such as an affectionate present, telling him that it was specially designed for his use. She should also amuse him for a long time by telling him such stories, and doing such things as he may take most delight in. When he goes away she should frequently send to him a female attendant, skilled in carrying on a jesting conversation, and also a small present at the same time. She should also sometimes go to him herself under the pretence of some business, and accompanied by the ''Pithamarda''.

Thus end the means of attaching to herself the man desired.

There are also some verses on the subject as follows:
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      <text bytes="613" sha1="d82mr2u67s1453yznfa52e6cwr58t5g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|136|''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;When a lover comes to her abode, a courtezan should give him a mixture of betel leaves and betel nut, garlands of flowers, and perfumed ointments, and, showing her skill in arts, should entertain him with a long conversation. She should also give him some loving presents, and make an exchange of her own things with his, and at the same time should show him her skill in sexual enjoyment. When a courtezan is thus united with her lover she should always delight him by affectionate gifts, by conversation, and by the application of tender means of enjoyment.&quot;
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{{ph/sub|Of Living Like a Wife.}}

{{sc|When}} a courtezan is living as a wife with her lover, she should behave like a chaste woman, and do everything to his satisfaction. Her duty in this respect, in short, is, that she should give him pleasure, but should not become attached to him, though behaving as if she were really attached.

Now the following is the manner in which she is to conduct herself, so as to accomplish the above mentioned purpose. She should have a mother dependent on her, one who should be represented as very harsh, and who looked upon money as her chief object in life. In the event of there being no mother, then an old and confidential nurse should play the same role. The mother or nurse, on their part, should appear to be displeased with the lover, and forcibly take her away from him. The woman herself should always show pretended anger, dejection, fear, and shame on this account, but should not disobey the mother or nurse at any time.

She should make out to the mother or nurse that the man is suffering from bad health, and making this a pretext for going to see him, she should go on that account. She is, moreover, to do the following things for the purpose of gaining the man's favor, viz.:

Sending her female attendant to bring the flowers used by him on the previous day, in order that she may use them herself as a mark of affection, also asking for the mixture of betel nut and leaves that have remained uneaten by him; expressing wonder at his knowledge of sexual intercourse, and the several means of enjoyment used by him; learning from him the sixty-four kinds of pleasure mentioned by ''Babhravya''; continually practicing the ways of enjoyment as taught by him, and according to his liking; keeping his secrets; telling him her own desires and secrets; concealing her anger; never neglecting him on the bed when he turns his face towards her; touching any parts of his body according to his wish; kissing and embracing him when he is asleep; looking at him with apparent anxiety when he is wrapt in thought, or thinking of some other subject than herself; showing&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|137}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2590" sha1="4h3zgq4us4svugszxohxd206vthprws" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|138|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;neither complete shamelessness, nor excessive bashfulness when he meets her, or sees her standing on the terrace of her house from the public road: hating his enemies; loving those who are dear to him; showing a liking for that which he likes; bemg in high or low spirits according to the state that he is in himself; expressing a curiosity to see his wives; not continuing her anger for a long time; suspecting even the marks and wounds made by herself with her nails and teeth on his body to have been made by some other woman; keeping her love for him unexpressed by words, but showing it by deeds, and signs, and hints; remaining silent when he is asleep, intoxicated, or sick; being very attentive when he describes his good actions, and reciting them afterwards to his praise and benefit; giving witty replies to him if he be sufficiently attached to her; listening to all his stories except those that relate to her rivals; expressing feelings of dejection and sorrow if he sighs, yawns, or falls down, pronouncing the words &quot;live long&quot; when he sneezes; pretending to be ill, or to have the desire of pregnancy when she feels dejected; abstaining from praising the good qualities of any body else, and from censuring those who possess the same faults as her own man; wearing anything that may have been given to her by him; abstaining from putting on her ornaments, and from taking food when he is in pain, sick, low-spirited, or suffering from misfortune, and condoling and lamenting with him over the same; wishing to accompany him if he happens to leave the country himself or if he be banished from it by the King; expressing a desire not to live after him; telling him that the whole object and desire of her life was to be united with him; offering previously promised sacrifices to the Deity when he acquires wealth, or has some desire fulfilled, or when he has recovered from some illness or disease; putting on ornaments every day; not acting too freely with him; reciting his name and the name of his family in her songs; placing his hand on her loins, bosom and forehead, and falling asleep after feeling the pleasure of his touch; sitting on his lap and falling asleep there; wishing to have a child by him; desiring not to live longer than he does; abstaining from revealing his secrets to others; dissuading him from vows and fasts by saying &quot;let the sin fall upon me;&quot; keeping vows and fasts along with him when it is impossible to change his mind on the subject; telling him that vows and fasts are difficult to be observed, even by her-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2491" sha1="e6d6qarvregtmsbenw5hhnmq0x1lyaw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|139}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;self, when she has any dispute with him about them; looking on her own wealth and his without any distinction; abstaining from going to public assemblies without him, and accompanying him when he desires her to do so; taking delight in using things previously used by him, and in eating food that he has left uneaten; venerating his family, his disposition, his skill in the arts, his learning, his caste, his complexion, his native country, his friends, his good qualities, his age, and his sweet temper; asking him to sing, and to do other such like things, if able to do them; going to him without paying any regard to fear, to cold, to heat, or to rain; saying with regard to the next world that he should be her lover even there; adapting her tastes, disposition and actions to his liking; abstaining from sorcery; disputing continually with her mother on the subject of going to him, and, when forcibly taken by her mother to some other place, expressing her desire to die by taking poison, by starving herself to death, by stabbing herself with some weapon, or by hanging herself; and lastly assuring the man of her constancy and love by means of her agents, and receiving money herself, but abstaining from any dispute with her mother with regard to pecuniary matters.

When the man sets out on a journey, she should make him swear that he will return quickly, and in his absence should put aside her vows of worshipping the Deity, and should wear no ornaments except those that are lucky. If the time fixed for his return has passed, she should endeavor to ascertain the real time of his return from omens, from the reports of the people, and from the position of the planets, the moon and the stars. On occasions of amusement, and of auspicious dreams she should say, &quot;Let me be soon united to him.&quot; If, moreover, she feels melancholy, or sees any inauspicious omen, she should perform some rite to appease the Deity.

When the man does return home she should worship the God ''Kama'' (i.e., the Indian ''Cupid''), and offer oblations to other Deities, and having caused a pot filled with water to be brought by her friends, she should perform the worship in honor of the crow who eats the offerings which we make to the manes of deceased relations. After the first visit is over she should ask her lover also to perform certain rites, and this he will do if he is sufficiently attached to her.

Now a man is said to be sufficiently attached to a woman&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2179" sha1="al7tc3g25jaw401despomx8w2eka6cs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''Concluding Remarks''|175}}
{{italic block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;# &lt;li value=28&gt;Recipes for enabling a woman to attract and preserve her husband's love.&lt;/li&gt;
# Magical collyriums for winning love and friendship.
# Prescriptions for reducing other persons to submission.
# Philter pills, and other charms.
# Fascinating incense, or fumigation.
# Magical verses which have the power of fascination.

Of the one hundred and thirty recipes given, many of them are absurd, but not more perhaps than many of the recipes and prescriptions in use in Europe not so very long ago. Love-philters, charms, and herbal remedies have been, in early days, as freely used in Europe as in Asia, and doubtless some people believe in them still in many places.

And now, one word about the author of the work, the good old sage ''Vatsyayana''. It is much to be regretted that nothing can be discovered about his life, his belongings, and his surroundings. At the end of Part VII he states that he wrote the work while leading the life of a religious student (probably at Benares) and while wholly engaged in the contemplation of the Deity. He must have arrived at a certain age at that time, for throughout he gives us the benefit of his experience, and of his opinions, and these bear the stamp of age rather than of youth; indeed the work could hardly have been written by a young man.

In a beautiful verse of the ''Vedas'' of the Christians it has been said of the peaceful dead, that they rest from their labors, and that their works do follow them. Yes indeed, the works of men of genius do follow them, and remain as a lasting treasure. And though there may be disputes and discussions about the immortality of the body or the soul, nobody can deny the immortality of genius, which ever remains as a bright and guiding star to the struggling humanities of succeeding ages. This work, then, which has stood the test of centuries, has placed ''Vatsyayana'' among the immortals, and on this, and on him, no better elegy or eulogy can be written than the following lines:

{{ppoem|
{{fqm}}So long as lips shall kiss, and eyes shall see.
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.&quot;
}}
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{{italic block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;There will be found in Part VII some curious recipes. Many of them appear to be as primitive as the book itself, but in later works of the same nature these recipes and prescriptions appear to have increased, both as regards quality and quantity. In the ''Anunga Runga'' or ''&quot;The Stage of Love,&quot;'' mentioned on page xvii of the Preface there are found no less than thirty-three different subjects for which one hundred and thirty recipes and prescriptions are given.

As the details may be interesting, these subjects are described as follows:

# For hastening the paroxysm of the woman.
# For delaying the orgasm of the man.
# Aphrodisiacs.
# For thickening and enlarging the lingam, rendering it sound and strong, hard and lusty.
# For narrowing and contracting the yoni.
# For perfuming the yoni.
# For removing and destroying the hair of the body.
# For removing the sudden stopping of the monthly ailment.
# For abating the immoderate appearance of the monthly ailment.
# For purifying the womb.
# For causing pregnancy.
# For preventing miscarriage and other accidents.
# For ensuring easy labor and ready deliverance.
# For limiting the number of children.
# For thickening and beautifying the hair.
# For obtaining a good black color to it.
# For whitening and bleaching it.
# For renewing it.
# For clearing the skin of the face from eruptions that break out and leave black spots upon it.
# For removing the black color of the epidermis.
# For enlarging the breasts of women.
# For raising and hardening pendulous breasts.
# For giving a fragrance to the skin.
# For removing the evil savor of perspiration.
# For anointing the body after bathing.
# For causing a pleasant smell to the breath.
# Drugs and charms for the purposes of fascinating, overcoming, and subduing either men or women.
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{{italic block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;There will be found in Part VII some curious recipes. Many of them appear to be as primitive as the book itself, but in later works of the same nature these recipes and prescriptions appear to have increased, both as regards quality and quantity. In the ''Anunga Runga'' or ''&quot;The Stage of Love,&quot;'' mentioned on page xvii of the Preface there are found no less than thirty-three different subjects for which one hundred and thirty recipes and prescriptions are given.

As the details may be interesting, these subjects are described as follows:

# For hastening the paroxysm of the woman.
# For delaying the orgasm of the man.
# Aphrodisiacs.
# For thickening and enlarging the lingam, rendering it sound and strong, hard and lusty.
# For narrowing and contracting the yoni.
# For perfuming the yoni.
# For removing and destroying the hair of the body.
# For removing the sudden stopping of the monthly ailment.
# For abating the immoderate appearance of the monthly ailment.
# For purifying the womb.
# For causing pregnancy.
# For preventing miscarriage and other accidents.
# For ensuring easy labor and ready deliverance.
# For limiting the number of children.
# For thickening and beautifying the hair.
# For obtaining a good black color to it.
# For whitening and bleaching it.
# For renewing it.
# For clearing the skin of the face from eruptions that break out and leave black spots upon it.
# For removing the black color of the epidermis.
# For enlarging the breasts of women.
# For raising and hardening pendulous breasts.
# For giving a fragrance to the skin.
# For removing the evil savor of perspiration.
# For anointing the body after bathing.
# For causing a pleasant smell to the breath.
# Drugs and charms for the purposes of fascinating, overcoming, and subduing either men or women.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{italic block/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/209</title>
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{{italic block/s}}
Thus ends, in Seven Parts, the ''Kama Sutra'' of ''Vatsyayana'', which might otherwise be called a treatise on men and women, their mutual relationship, and connection with each other.

It is a work that should be studied by all, both old and young; the former will find in it real truths, gathered by experience, and already tested by themselves, while the latter will derive the great advantage of learning things, which some perhaps may otherwise never learn at all, or which they may only learn when it is too late to profit by the learning.

It can also be fairly commended to the student of social science and of humanity, and above all to the student of those early ideas, which have gradually filtered down through the sands of time, and which seem to prove that the human nature of today is much the same as the human nature of the long ago.

It has been said of ''Balzac'' (the great, if not the greatest of French novelists) that he seemed to have inherited a natural and intuitive perception of the feelings of men and women, and has described them with an analysis worthy of a man of science. The author of the present work must also have had a considerable knowledge of the humanities. Many of his remarks are so full of simplicity and truth, that they have stood the test of time, and stand out still as clear and true as when they were first written, some eighteen hundred years ago.

As a collection of facts, told in plain and simple language, it must be remembered that in those early days there was apparently no idea of embellishing the work, either with a literary style, a flow of language, or a quantity of superfluous padding. The author tells the world what he knows in very concise language, without any attempt to produce an interesting story. From his facts how many novels could be written! Indeed much of the matter contained in Parts III, IV, V, and VI, has formed the basis of many of the stories and the tales of past centuries.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{italic block/e}}
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/200</title>
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      <text bytes="2457" sha1="s0ug1zwyw1kipa0i6iv1ihoxo5kgva9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|164|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;(i) When a female attendant arrives at the age of puberty, her master should keep her secluded, and when men ardently desire her on account of her seclusion, and on account of the difficulty of approaching her, he should then bestow her hand on such a person as may endow her with wealth and happiness.

This is a means of increasing the loveliness of a person in the eyes of others.

In the same way, when the daughter of a courtezan arrives at the age of puberty, the mother should get together a lot of young men of the same age, disposition, and knowledge as her daughter, and tell them that she would give her in marriage to the person who would give her presents of a particular kind.

After this the daughter should be kept in seclusion as far as possible, and the mother should give her in marriage to the man who may be ready to give her the presents agreed upon. If the mother is unable to get so much out of the man, she should show some of her own things as having been given to the daughter by the bridegroom.

Or, the mother may allow her daughter to be married to the man privately, as if she was ignorant of the whole affair, and then pretending that it has come to her knowledge, she may give her consent to the union.

The daughter, too, should make herself attractive to the sons of wealthy citizens, unknown to her mother, and make them attached to her, and for this purpose should meet them at the time of learning to sing, and in places where music is played, and at the houses of other people, and then request her mother, through a female friend, or servant, to be allowed to unite herself to the man who is most agreeable to her.&lt;ref&gt;It is a custom of the courtezans of Oriental countries to give their daughters temporarily in marriage when they come of age, and after they have received an education in the ''Kama Sutra'' and other arts. Full details are given of this at page 76 of &quot;''Early Ideas''; A Group of Hindoo stories,&quot; collected and collated by ''Anaryan'', W. H. Allen iS Co., London, 1881. &lt;/ref&gt;

When the daughter of a courtezan is thus given to a man, the ties of marriage should be observed for one year, and after that she may do what she likes. But even after the end of the year, when otherwise engaged, if she should be now and then invited by her first husband to come and see him, she should put aside her present gain, and go to him for the night.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/176</title>
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      <text bytes="991" sha1="fk48xsk5dc8s98b86qgrtwpld2n9hx5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|140|''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;when his love is disinterested; when he has the same object in view as his beloved one; when he is quite free from any suspicions on her account; and when he is indifferent to money with regard to her.

Such is the manner of a courtezan living with a man like a wife, and set forth here for the sake of guidance from the rules of ''Dattaka''. What is not laid down here should be practiced according to the custom of the people, and the nature of each individual man.

There are also two verses on the subject as follows:

&quot;The extent of the love of women is not known, even to those who are the objects of their affection, on account of its subtlety, and on account of the avarice, and natural intelligence of womankind.&quot;

&quot;Women are hardly ever known in their true light, though they may love men, or become indifferent towards them; may give them delight, or abandon them; or may extract from them all the wealth that they may possess.&quot;
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/177</title>
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      <text bytes="2011" sha1="onbhgu3ah3sa0y7eu3gjtxe9dly49eo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER III.}}
{{ph/sub|Of the Means of Getting Money. Of the Signs of the Change of a Lover's Feelings, and of the Way to Get Rid of Him.}}

{{sc|Money}} is got out of a lover in two ways, viz.:

By natural or lawful means, and by artifices. Old authors are of opinion that when a courtezan can get as much money as she wants from her lover, she should not make use of artifice. But ''Vatsyayana'' lays down that though she may get some money from him by natural means, yet when she makes use of artifice he gives her doubly more, and therefore artifice should be resorted to for the purpose of extorting money from him at all events.

Now the artifices to be used for getting money from the lover are as follows:

1st. Taking money from him on different occasions, for the purpose of purchasing various articles, such as ornaments, food, drink, flowers, perfumes and clothes, and either not buying them, or getting from him more than their cost.

2nd. Praising his intelligence to his face.

3rd. Pretending to be obliged to make gifts on occasion of festivals connected with vows, trees, gardens, temples, or tanks.&lt;ref&gt;On the completion of a vow a festival takes place. Some trees such as the peepul and banyan trees are invested with sacred threads like the ''Brahmans'', and on the occasion of this ceremony a festival is given. In the same way when gardens are made, and tanks or temples built, then also festivals are observed.&lt;/ref&gt;

4th. Pretending that at the time of going to his house, her jewels have been stolen either by the King's guards, or by robbers.

5th. Alleging that her property has been destroyed by fire, by the falling of her house, or by the carelessness of the servants.

6th. Pretending to have lost the ornaments of her lover along with her own.

7th. Causing him to hear through other people of the expenses incurred by her in coming to see him.

8th. Contracting debts for the sake of her lover.

9th. Disputing with her mother on account of some ex-&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1954" sha1="i51jpyruigrk9qcc8yxuhd9e8xsns2c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|142|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;pense incurred by her for the lover, and which was not approved of by her mother.

10th. Not going to parties and festivities in the houses of her friends for the want of presents to make to them, she having previously informed her lover of the valuable presents given to her by these very friends.

11th. Not performing certain festive rites under the pretence that she has no money to perform them with.

12th. Engaging artists to do something for her lover.

13th. Entertaining physicians and ministers for the purpose of attaining some object.

14th. Assisting friends and benefactors both on festive occasions, and in misfortune.

15th. Performing household rites.

16th. Having to pay the expenses of the ceremony of marriage of the son of a female friend.

17th. Having to satisfy curious wishes during her state of pregnancy.

18th. Pretending to be ill, and charging her cost of treatment.

19th. Having to remove the troubles of a friend.

20th. Selling some of her ornaments, so as to give her lover a present.

21st. Pretending to sell some of her ornaments, furniture, or cooking utensils to a trader, who has been already tutored how to behave in the matter.

22nd. Having to buy cooking utensils of greater value than those of other people, so that they might be more easily distinguished, and not changed for others of an inferior description.

23rd. Remembering the former favors of her lover, and causing them always to be spoken of by her friends and followers.

24th. Informing her lover of the great gains of other courtezans.

25th. Describing before them, and in the presence of her lover, her own great gains, and making them out to be greater even than theirs, though such may not have been really the case.

26th. Openly opposing her mother when she endeavors to persuade her to take up with men with whom she had been formerly acquainted, on account of the great gains to be got from them.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/201</title>
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      <text bytes="2354" sha1="71uaje6sdmlbyqhh6rs8xe2ckq2qcaq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|165}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Such is the mode of temporary marriage among courtezans, and of increasing their loveliness, and their value in the eyes of others. What has been said about them should also be understood to apply to the daughters of dancing women, whose mothers should give them only to such persons as are likely to become useful to them in various ways.

Thus end the ways of making oneself lovely in the eyes of others.

(a) If a man, after anointing his lingam with a mixture of the powders of the white thorn apple, the long pepper, and the black pepper, and honey, engages in sexual union with a woman, he makes her subject to his will.

(b) The application of a mixture of the leaf of the plant vatodbhranta, of the flowers thrown on a human corpse when carried out to be burnt, and of the powder of the bones of the peacock, and of the jiwanjiva bird produces the same effect.

(c) The remains of a kite which has died a natural death, ground into powder, and mixed with cowach and honey, has also the same effect.

(d) Anointing oneself with an ointment made of the plant emblica myrabolans has the power of subjecting women to one's will.

(e) If a man cuts into small pieces the sprouts of the vajnasunhi plant, and dips them into a mixture of red arsenic and sulphur, and then dries them seven times, and applies this powder mixed with honey to his lingam, he can subjugate a woman to his will directly that he has had sexual union with her, or, if, by burning these very sprouts at night and looking at the smoke, he sees a golden moon behind, he will then be successful with any woman; or if he throws some of the powder of these same sprouts mixed with the excrement of a monkey upon a maiden, she will not be given in marriage to any body else.

(f) If pieces of the arris root are dressed with the oil of the mango, and placed for six months in a hole made in the trunk of the sisu tree, and are then taken out and made up into an ointment, and applied to the lingam, this is said to serve as the means of subjugating women.

(g) If the bone of a camel is dipped into the juice of the plant eclipta prostata, and then burnt, and the black pigment produced from its ashes is placed in a box also made of the bone of a camel, and applied together with antimony to the eye lashes with a pencil also made of the bone of a camel,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/179</title>
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Thus end the ways and means of getting money.

{{***|char=†}}

A woman should always know the state of the mind, of the feelings, and of the disposition of her lover towards her, from the changes of his temper, his manner, and the color of his face.

The behavior of a waning lover is as follows:

1st. He gives the woman either less than is wanted, or something else than that which is asked for.

2nd. He keeps her in hopes by promises.

3rd. He pretends to do one thing, and does something else.

4th. He does not fulfill her desires.

5th. He forgets his promises, or does something else than that which he has promised.

6th. He speaks with his own servants in a mysterious way.

7th. He sleeps in some other house under the pretence of having to do something for a friend.

8th. Lastly, he speaks in private with the attendants of a woman with whom he was formerly acquainted.

Now when a courtezan finds that her lover's disposition toward her is changing, she should get possession of all his best things before he becomes aware of her intentions, and allow a supposed creditor to take them away forcibly from her in satisfaction of some pretended debt. After this, if the lover is rich, and has always behaved well towards her, she should ever treat him with respect; but if he is poor and destitute, she should get rid of him as if she had never been acquainted with him in any way before.

The means of getting rid of a lover are as follows:

1st. Describing the habits and vices of the lover as disagreeable and censurable, with the sneer of the lip, and the stamp of the foot.

2nd. Speaking on a subject with which he is not acquainted.

3rd. Showing no admiration for his learning, and passing a censure upon it.

4th. Putting down his pride.

5th. Seeking the company of men who are superior to him in learning and wisdom.
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      <text bytes="1878" sha1="jeufdeyd3kkj5v39y6x47autfibwpiz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|144|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;6th. Showing a disregard for him on all occasions.

7th. Censuring men possessed of the same faults as her lover.

8th. Expressing dissatisfaction at the ways and means of enjoyment used by him.

9th. Not giving him her mouth to kiss.

10th. Refusing access to her ''jaghana'', i.e., the part of the body between the navel and the thighs.

11th. Showing a dislike for the wounds made by his nails and teeth.

12th. Not pressing close up against him at the time when he embraces her.

13th. Keeping her limbs without movement at the time of congress.

14th. Desiring him to enjoy her when he is fatigued.

15th. Laughing at his attachment to her.

16th. Not responding to his embraces.

17th. Turning away from him when he begins to embrace her.

18th. Pretending to be sleepy.

19th. Going out visiting, or into company, when she perceives his desire to enjoy her during the day time.

20th. Misconstruing his words.

21st. Laughing without any joke, or at the time of any joke made by him laughing under some other pretence.

22nd. Looking with side glances at her own attendants, and clapping her hands when he says anything.

23rd. Interrupting him in the middle of his stories, and beginning to tell other stories herself.

24th. Reciting his faults and his vices, and declaring them to be incurable.

25th. Saying words to her female attendants calculated to cut the heart of her lover to the quick.

26th. Taking care not to look at him when he comes to her.

27th. Asking from him what cannot be granted.

28th. And, after all, finally dismissing him.

There are also two verses on this subject as follows:

&quot;The duty of a courtezan consists in forming connections with suitable men after due and full consideration, and attaching the person with whom she is united to herself; in obtaining wealth from the person who is attached to her, and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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&quot;A courtezan leading in this manner the life of a wife is not troubled with too many lovers, and yet obtains abundance of wealth.&quot;
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      <text bytes="1957" sha1="p7tcss3wpkkow0n19jbsojrfq28rl94" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER IV.}}
{{ph/sub|About Re-union with a Former Lover.}}

{{sc|When}} a courtezan abandons her present lover after all his wealth is exhausted, she may then consider about her reunion with a former lover. But she should return to him only if he has acquired fresh wealth, or is still wealthy, and if he is still attached to her. And if this man be living at the time with some other woman she should consider well before she acts.

Now such a man can only be in one of the six following conditions, viz.:

1st. He may have left the first woman of his own accord, and may even have left another woman since then.

2nd. He may have been driven away from both women.

3rd. He may have left the one woman of his own accord, and been driven away by the other.

4th. He may have left the one woman of his own accord, and be living with another woman.

5th. He may have been driven away from the one woman, and left the other of his own accord.

6th. He may have been driven away by the one woman, and may be living with another.

(1) Now if the man has left both women of his own accord, he should not be resorted to, on account of the fickleness of nis mind, and his indifference to the excellences of both of them.

(2) As regards the man who may have been driven away from both women, if he has been driven away from the last one because the woman could get more money from some other man, then he should be resorted to, for if attached to the first woman he would give her more money through vanity and emulation to spite the other woman. But if he has been driven away by the woman on account of his poverty, or stinginess, he should not then be resorted to.

(3) In the case of the man who may have left the one woman of his own accord, and been driven away by the other, if he agrees to return to the former and give her plenty of money beforehand, then he should be resorted to.

(4) In the case of the man who may have left the one&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center|146}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{ph/sub|About Re-union with a Former Lover.}}

{{sc|When}} a courtezan abandons her present lover after all his wealth is exhausted, she may then consider about her re-union with a former lover. But she should return to him only if he has acquired fresh wealth, or is still wealthy, and if he is still attached to her. And if this man be living at the time with some other woman she should consider well before she acts.

Now such a man can only be in one of the six following conditions, viz.:

1st. He may have left the first woman of his own accord, and may even have left another woman since then.

2nd. He may have been driven away from both women.

3rd. He may have left the one woman of his own accord, and been driven away by the other.

4th. He may have left the one woman of his own accord, and be living with another woman.

5th. He may have been driven away from the one woman, and left the other of his own accord.

6th. He may have been driven away by the one woman, and may be living with another.

(1) Now if the man has left both women of his own accord, he should not be resorted to, on account of the fickleness of nis mind, and his indifference to the excellences of both of them.

(2) As regards the man who may have been driven away from both women, if he has been driven away from the last one because the woman could get more money from some other man, then he should be resorted to, for if attached to the first woman he would give her more money through vanity and emulation to spite the other woman. But if he has been driven away by the woman on account of his poverty, or stinginess, he should not then be resorted to.

(3) In the case of the man who may have left the one woman of his own accord, and been driven away by the other, if he agrees to return to the former and give her plenty of money beforehand, then he should be resorted to.

(4) In the case of the man who may have left the one&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center|146}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/183</title>
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      <text bytes="2435" sha1="22ft1pzyqzbzzmek59exdqsd4b0soo4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|147}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;woman of his own accord, and be living with another woman, the former (wishing to take up with him again), should first ascertain if he left her in the first instance in the hope of finding some particular excellence in the other woman, and that not having found any such excellence, he was willing to come back to her, and to give her much money on account of his conduct, and on account of his affection still existing for her.

Or, whether, having discovered many faults in the other woman, he would now see even more excellences in herself than actually exist, and would be prepared to give her much money for these qualities.

Or, lastly, to consider whether he was a weak man, or a man fond of enjoying many women, or one who liked a poor woman, or one who never did anything for the woman that he was with. After maturely considering all these things she should resort to him or not, according to circumstances.

(5) As regards the man who may have been driven away from the one woman, and left the other of his own accord, the former woman (wishing to re-unite with him), should first ascertain whether he still has any affection for her, and would consequently spend much money upon her; or whether, being attached to her excellent qualities, he did not take delight in any other women; or whether, being driven away from her formerly before completely satisfying his sexual desires, he wished to get back to her, so as to be revenged for the injury done to him; or whether he wished to create confidence in her mind, and then take back from her the wealth which she formerly took from him, and finally destroy her; or, lastly, whether he wished first to separate her from her present lover, and then to break away from her himself. If, after considering all these things, she is of opinion that his intentions are really pure and honest, she can re-unite herself with him. But if his mind be at all tainted with evil intentions, he should be avoided.

(6) In the case of the man who may have been driven away by one woman, and be living with another, if the man makes overtures to return to the first one, the courtezan should consider well before she acts, and while the other woman is engaged in attracting him to herself, she should try in her turn (though keeping herself behind the scenes) to gain him over, on the grounds of any of the following considerations, viz.:
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/184</title>
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      <text bytes="2227" sha1="58gsddi7nyugqjzsiv08qxwvlq67ra9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|148|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;1st. That he was driven away unjustly and for no proper reason, and now that he has gone to another woman, every effort must be used to bring him back to myself.

2nd. That if he were once to converse with me again, he would break away from the other woman.

3rd. That the pride of my present lover would be put down by means of the former one.

4th. That he has become wealthy, has secured a higher position, and holds a place of authority under the King.

5th. That he is separate from his wife.

6th. That he is now independent.

7th. That he lives apart from his father, or brother.

8th. That by making peace with him, I shall be able to get hold of a very rich man, who is now prevented from coming to me by my present lover.

9th. That as he is not respected by his wife, I shall now be able to separate him from her.

10th. That the friend of this man loves my rival, who hates me cordially, I shall therefore by this means separate the friend from his mistress.

11th. And lastly, I shall bring discredit upon him by bringing him back to me, thus showing the fickleness of his mind.

When a courtezan is resolved to take up again with a former lover, her ''Pithamarda'' and other servants should tell him that his former expulsion from the woman's house was caused by the wickedness of her mother; that the woman loved him just as much as ever at that time, but could not help the occurrence on account of her deference to her mother's will; that she hated the union of her present lover, and disliked him excessively. In addition to this, they should create confidence in his mind by speaking to him of her former love for him, and should allude to the mark of that love that she has ever remembered. This mark of her love should be connected with some kind of pleasure that may have been practiced by him, such as his way of kissing her, or manner of having connection with her.

Thus end the ways of bringing about a re-union with a former lover.

When a woman has to choose between two lovers, one of whom was formerly united with her, while the other is a stranger, the ''Acharyas'' (sages) are of opinion that the first one is preferable, because his disposition and character being&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1512" sha1="0n27veqjd7tkofza5t7yuv10bf5twms" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|149 }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;already known by previous careful observation, he can be easily pleased and satisfied; but ''Vatsyayana'' thinks that a former lover, having already spent a great deal of his wealth, is not able or willing to give much money again, and is not therefore to be relied upon so much as a stranger. Particular cases may however, arise differing from this general rule on account of the different natures of men.

There are also verses on the subject as follows:

&quot;Re-union with a former lover may be desirable so as to separate some particular woman from some particular man, or some particular man from some particular woman, or to have a certain effect upon the present lover.&quot;

&quot;When a man is excessively attached to a woman, he is afraid of her coming into contact with other men; he does not then regard or notice her faults; and he gives her much wealth through fear of her leaving him.&quot;

&quot;A courtezan should be agreeable to the man who is attached to her, and despise the man who does not care for her. If while she is living with one man, a messenger comes to her from some other man, she may either refuse to listen to any negotiations on his part, or appoint a fixed time for him to visit her, but she should not leave the man who may be living with her and who may be attached to her.&quot;

&quot;A wise woman should only renew her connection with a former lover if she is satisfied that good fortune, gain, love, and friendship are likely to be the result of such a re-union.&quot;
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/186</title>
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{{ph/sub|Of Different Kinds of Gain.}}

{{sc|When}} a courtezan is able to realize much money every day, by reason of many customers, she should not confine herself to a single lover; under such circumstances, she should fix her rate for one night, after considering the place, the season, and the condition of the people, also having regard to her own good qualities and good looks, and after comparing her rates with those of other courtezans. She can inform her lovers, and friends, and acquaintances about these changes. If, however, she can obtain a great gain from a single lover, she may resort to him alone, and live with him like a wife.

Now, the Sages are of opinion, that, when a courtezan has the chance of an equal gain from two lovers at the same time, a preference should be given to the one who would give her the kind of thing which she wants. But ''Vatsyayana'' says that the preference should be given to the one who gives her gold, because it cannot be taken back like some other things, it can be easily received, and is also the means of procuring anything that may be wished for. Of such things as gold, silver, copper, bell metal, iron, pots, furniture, beds, upper garments, under vestments, fragrant substances, vessels made of gourds, ghee, oil, corn, cattle, and other things of a like nature, the first viz., gold, is superior to all the others.

When the same labor is required to gain any two lovers, or when the same kind of thing is to be got from each of them, the choice should be made by the advice of a friend, or it may be made from their personal qualities, or from the signs of good or bad fortune that may be connected with them.

When there are two lovers, one of whom is attached to the courtezan, and the other is simply very generous, the Sages say that a preference should be given to the generous lover, but ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that the one who is really attached to the courtezan should be preferred, because he can be made to be generous, even as a miser gives money if he becomes fond of a woman, but a man who is simply generous cannot be made to love with real attachment. But among those who are attached to her, if there is one who is&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center|150}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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poor, and one who is rich, the preference is of course to be given to the latter.

When there are two lovers, one of whom is generous, and the other ready to do any service for the courtezan, some Sages say that the one who is ready to do the service should be preferred, but ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that a man who does a service thinks that he has gained his object when he has done something once, but a generous man does not care for what he has given before. Even here the choice should be guided by the likelihood of the future good to be derived from her union with either of them.

When one of two lovers is grateful, and the other liberal, some Sages say that the liberal one should be preferred, but ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that the former should be chosen, because liberal men are generally haughty, plain spoken, and wanting in consideration towards others. Even though these liberal men have been on friendly terms for a long time, yet if they see any fault in the courtezan, or are told lies about her by some other woman, they do not care for past services, but leave abruptly. On the other hand, the grateful man does not at once break off from her, on account of a regard for the pains she may have taken to please him. In this case also the choice is to be guided with regard to what may happen in future.

When an occasion for complying with the request of a friend, and a chance of getting money come together, the Sages say that the chance of getting money should be preferred. But ''Vatsyayana'' thinks that money can be obtained tomorrow as well as today, but if the request of a friend be not at once complied with, he may become disaffected. Even here, in making the choice, regard must be paid to future good fortune.

On such an occasion, however, the courtezan might pacify her friend by pretending to have some work to do, and telling him that his request will be compiled with next day, and in this way secure the chance of getting the money that has been offered her.

When the chance of getting money, and the chance of avoiding some disaster come at the same time, the Sages are of opinion that the chance of getting money should be preferred, but ''Vatsyayana'' says that money has only a limited importance, while a disaster that is once averted may never&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2343" sha1="b37oi9phethc7g7gbhbgaj4x5n6u6yf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|151}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;poor, and one who is rich, the preference is of course to be given to the latter.

When there are two lovers, one of whom is generous, and the other ready to do any service for the courtezan, some Sages say that the one who is ready to do the service should be preferred, but ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that a man who does a service thinks that he has gained his object when he has done something once, but a generous man does not care for what he has given before. Even here the choice should be guided by the likelihood of the future good to be derived from her union with either of them.

When one of two lovers is grateful, and the other liberal, some Sages say that the liberal one should be preferred, but ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that the former should be chosen, because liberal men are generally haughty, plain spoken, and wanting in consideration towards others. Even though these liberal men have been on friendly terms for a long time, yet if they see any fault in the courtezan, or are told lies about her by some other woman, they do not care for past services, but leave abruptly. On the other hand, the grateful man does not at once break off from her, on account of a regard for the pains she may have taken to please him. In this case also the choice is to be guided with regard to what may happen in future.

When an occasion for complying with the request of a friend, and a chance of getting money come together, the Sages say that the chance of getting money should be preferred. But ''Vatsyayana'' thinks that money can be obtained tomorrow as well as today, but if the request of a friend be not at once complied with, he may become disaffected. Even here, in making the choice, regard must be paid to future good fortune.

On such an occasion, however, the courtezan might pacify her friend by pretending to have some work to do, and telling him that his request will be compiled with next day, and in this way secure the chance of getting the money that has been offered her.

When the chance of getting money, and the chance of avoiding some disaster come at the same time, the Sages are of opinion that the chance of getting money should be preferred, but ''Vatsyayana'' says that money has only a limited importance, while a disaster that is once averted may never&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/188</title>
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      <text bytes="2487" sha1="gpc7v5j8nty8e255cvx732yjvp9xd03" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|152|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;occur again. Here however, the choice should be guided by the greatness or smallness of the disaster.

The gains of the wealthiest and best kind of courtezans are to be spent as follows:

Building temples, tanks, and gardens; giving a thousand cows to different ''Brahmans''; carrying on the worship of the Gods, and celebrating festivals in their honor; and, lastly, performing such vows as may be within their means.

The gains of other courtezans are to be spent as follows:

Having a white dress to wear every day; getting sufficient food and drink to satisfy hunger and thirst; eating daily a perfumed ''tambula'', i.e., a mixture of betel nut and betel leaves; and wearing ornaments gilt with gold. The Sages say that these represent the gains of all the middle and lower classes of courtezans, but ''Vatsyayana'' is of opinion that their gains cannot be calculated, or fixed in any way, as these depend on the influences of the place, the customs of the people, their own appearance, and many other things.

When a courtezan wants to keep some particular man from some other woman; or wishes to get him away from some woman to whom he may be attached; or to deprive some woman of the gains realized by her from him; or if she thinks that she would raise her position; or enjoy some great good fortune; or become desirable to all men by uniting herself with this man; or if she wishes to get his assistance in averting some misfortune; or is really attached to him and loves him or wishes to injure somebody through his means; or has regard to some former favor conferred upon her by him; or wishes to be united with him merely from desire; for any of the above reasons, she should agree to take from him only a small sum of money in a friendly way.

When a courtezan intends to abandon a particular lover, and take up with another one; or when she has reason to believe that her lover will shortly leave her, and return to his wives; or that having squandered all his money, and become penniless, his guardian, or master, or father would come and take him away; or that her lover is about to lose his position, or lastly, that he is of a very fickle mind, she should, under any of these circumstances, endeavour to get as much money as she can from him as soon as possible.

On the other hand, when the courtezan thinks that her lover is about to receive valuable presents; or get a place of authority from the King; or be near the time of inheriting&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/189</title>
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      <text bytes="1034" sha1="ea6pxksv373g14hrnv1xismaw6ep77k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|153}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;a fortune; or that his ship would soon arrive laden with merchandise; or that he has large stocks of corn and other commodities; or that if anything was done for him it would not be done in vain; or that he is always true to his word; then should she have regard to her future welfare, and live with the man like a wife.

There are also verses on the subject as follows:

&quot;In considering her present gains, and her future welfare, a courtezan should avoid such persons as have gained their means of subsistence with very great difficulty, as also those who have become selfish and hard-hearted by becoming the favorites of Kings.&quot;

&quot;She should make every endeavor to unite herself with prosperous and well to do people, and with those whom it is dangerous to avoid, or to slight in any way. Even at some cost to herself she should become acquainted with energetic and liberal-minded men, who when pleased would give her a large sum of money, even for very little service, or for some small thing.&quot;
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/190</title>
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      <text bytes="1605" sha1="gksh0mhltitndu1tdotwkwrpjp70xjm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER VI.}}
{{ph/sub|Of Gains and Losses; Attendant Gains and Losses; and Doubts; As Also of the Different Kinds of Courtezans.}}

{{sc|It}} sometimes happens that while gains are being sought for, or expected to be realized, losses only are the result of our efforts; the causes of which losses are:

{{plainlist|
* Weakness of intellect.
* Excessive love.
* Excessive pride.
* Excessive self conceit.
* Excessive simplicity.
* Excessive confidence.
* Excessive anger.
* Carelessness.
* Recklessness.
* Influence of evil genius.
* Accidental circumstances.
}}

The results of these losses are:

{{plainlist|
* Expense incurred without any result.
* Destruction of future good fortune.
* Stoppage of gains about to be realized.
* Loss of what is already obtained.
* Acquisition of a sour temper.
* Becoming unamiable to everybody.
* Injury to health.
* Loss of hair, and other accidents.
}}

Now gain is of three kinds, viz.: gain of wealth, gain of religious merit, and gain of pleasure; and similarly, loss is of three kinds, viz.: loss of wealth, loss of religious merit, and loss of pleasure. At the time when gains are sought for, if other gains come along with them, these are called attendant gains. When gain is uncertain, the doubt of its being a gain is called a simple doubt. When there is a doubt whether either of two things will happen or not, it is called a mixed doubt. If while one thing is being done two results take place, it is called a combination of two results, and if several results follow from the same action, it is called a combination of results on every side.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/191</title>
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      <text bytes="2161" sha1="pw3cw8pi8uhqns14n2sgslw0llx8qbr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|155}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;We shall now give examples of the above.

As already stated, gain is of three kinds, and loss, which is opposed to gain, is also of three kinds.

(a) When by living with a great man a courtezan acquires present wealth, and in addition to this becomes acquainted with other people, and thus obtains a chance of future fortune, and an accession of wealth, and becomes desirable to all, this is called a gain of wealth attended by other gain.

(b) When by living with a man a courtezan simply gets money, this is called a gain of wealth not attended by any other gain.

(c) When a courtezan receives money from other people besides her lover, the results are: the chance of the loss of future good from her present lover; the chance of disaffection of a man securely attached to her; the hatred of all; and the chance of a union with some low person tending to destroy her future good. This gain is called a gain of wealth attended by losses.

(d) When a courtezan at her own expense, and without any results in the shape of gain, has connection with a great man, or an avaricious minister for the sake of diverting some misfortune, or removing some cause that may be threatening the destruction of a great gain, this loss is said to be a loss of wealth attended by gains of the future good which it may bring about.

(e) When a courtezan is kind, even at her own expense, to a man who is very stingy, or to a man proud of his looks, or to an ungrateful man skilled in gaining the heart of others, without any good resulting from these connections to her in the end, this loss is called a loss of wealth not attended by any gain.

(f) When a courtezan is kind to any such men as described above, but who in addition are favorites of the King, and moreover cruel and powerful, without any good result in the end, and with a chance of her being turned away at any moment, this loss is called a loss of wealth attended by other losses.

In this way gains and losses, and attendant gains and losses in religious merit and in pleasures may become known to the reader, and combinations of all of them may also be made.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/192</title>
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      <text bytes="2222" sha1="ladx1zkjbjwf0reu5vb9adg2b1p1wwr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|156|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Thus end the remarks on gains and losses, and attendant gains and losses.

In the next place we come to doubts, which are again of three kinds, viz.: doubts about wealth, doubts about religious merit, and doubts about pleasures.

The following are examples.

(a) When a courtezan is not certain how much a man may give her, or spend upon her, this is called a doubt about wealth.

(b) When a courtezan feels doubtful whether she is right in entirely abandoning a lover from whom she is unable to get money, she having taken all his wealth from him in the first instance, this doubt is called a doubt about religious merit.

(c) When a courtezan is unable to get hold of a lover to her liking, and is uncertain whether she will derive any pleasure from a person surrounded by his family, or from a low person, this is called a doubt about pleasure.

(d) When a courtezan is uncertain whether some powerful but low principled fellow would cause loss to her on account of her not being civil to him, this is called a doubt about the loss of wealth.

(e) When a courtezan feels doubtful whether she would lose religious merit by abandoning a man who is attached to her without giving him the slightest favor, and thereby causing him unhappiness in this world and the next,&lt;ref&gt;The souls of men who die with their desires unfulfilled are said to go to the world of the Manes, and not direct to the Supreme Spirit.&lt;/ref&gt; this doubt is called a doubt about the loss of religious merit.

(f) When a courtezan is uncertain as to whether she might create disaffection by speaking out, and revealing her love, and thus not get her desire satisfied, this is called a doubt about the loss of pleasure.

Thus end the remarks on doubts.

{{ph/sub|Mixed Doubts}}

(a) The intercourse or connection with a stranger, whose disposition is unknown, and who may have been introduced by a lover, or by one who possessed authority, may be productive either of gain or loss, and therefore this is called a mixed doubt about the gain and loss of wealth.

(b) When a courtezan is requested by a friend, or is impelled by pity to have intercourse with a learned {{hws|''Brah|hyph=-''|''Brahman''}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2273" sha1="h77m7qjx9rlq4jskkhfxk1gj1jmexqj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|157}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|''man''|''Brahman''}}, a religious student, a sacrificer, a devotee, or an ascetic who may have all fallen in love with her, and who may be consequently at the point of death, by doing this she might either gain or lose religious merit, and therefore this is called a mixed doubt about the gain and loss of religious merit.

(c) If a courtezan relies solely upon the report of other people (i.e., hearsay) about a man, and goes to him without ascertaining herself whether he possesses good qualities or not, she may either gain or lose pleasure in proportion as he may be good or bad, and therefore this is called a mixed doubt about the gain and loss of pleasure.

''Uddalika'' has described the gains and losses on both sides as follows.

(a) If, when living with a lover, a courtezan gets both wealth and pleasure from him, it is called a gain on both sides.

(b) When a courtezan lives with a lover at her own expense without getting any profit out of it, and the lover even takes back from her what he may have formerly given her, it is called a loss on both sides.

(c) When a courtezan is uncertain whether a new acquaintance would become attached to her, and, moreover, if he became attached to her, whether he would give her any thing, it is called a doubt on both sides about gains.

(d) When a courtezan is uncertain whether a former enemy, if made up to by her at her own expense, would do her some injury on account of his grudge against her; or, if becoming attached to her, would take away angrily from her anything that he may have given to her, this is called a doubt on both sides about loss.

''Babhravya'' has described the gains and losses on both sides as follows:

(a) When a courtezan can get money from a man whom she may go to see, and also money from a man whom she may not go to see, this is called a gain on both sides.

(b) When a courtezan has to incur further expense if she goes to see a man, and yet runs the risk of incurring an irremediable loss if she does not go to see him, this is called a loss on both sides.

(c) When a courtezan is uncertain, whether a particular man would give her anything on her going to see him, without incurring expense on her part, or whether on her {{hws|ne|neglecting}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2255" sha1="opltspk648koiqn5vm76jufmfqa2iu8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|157}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|''man''|''Brahman''}}, a religious student, a sacrificer, a devotee, or an ascetic who may have all fallen in love with her, and who may be consequently at the point of death, by doing this she might either gain or lose religious merit, and therefore this is called a mixed doubt about the gain and loss of religious merit.

(c) If a courtezan relies solely upon the report of other people (i.e., hearsay) about a man, and goes to him without ascertaining herself whether he possesses good qualities or not, she may either gain or lose pleasure in proportion as he may be good or bad, and therefore this is called a mixed doubt about the gain and loss of pleasure.

''Uddalika'' has described the gains and losses on both sides as follows.

(a) If, when living with a lover, a courtezan gets both wealth and pleasure from him, it is called a gain on both sides.

(b) When a courtezan lives with a lover at her own expense without getting any profit out of it, and the lover even takes back from her what he may have formerly given her, it is called a loss on both sides.

(c) When a courtezan is uncertain whether a new acquaintance would become attached to her, and, moreover, if he became attached to her, whether he would give her any thing, it is called a doubt on both sides about gains.

(d) When a courtezan is uncertain whether a former enemy, if made up to by her at her own expense, would do her some injury on account of his grudge against her; or, if becoming attached to her, would take away angrily from her anything that he may have given to her, this is called a doubt on both sides about loss.

''Babhravya'' has described the gains and losses on both sides as follows:

(a) When a courtezan can get money from a man whom she may go to see, and also money from a man whom she may not go to see, this is called a gain on both sides.

(b) When a courtezan has to incur further expense if she goes to see a man, and yet runs the risk of incurring an irremediable loss if she does not go to see him, this is called a loss on both sides.

(c) When a courtezan is uncertain, whether a particular man would give her anything on her going to see him, without incurring expense on her part, or whether on her ne-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2608" sha1="ebvvv1zhsp78wb5j36rl7jm1b5xe370" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|75}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;mouth, and if she will not take it, he should induce her to do so by conciliatory words, entreaties, oaths, and kneeling at her feet, for it is an universal rule that however bashful or angry a woman may be, she never disregards a man’s kneeling at her feet. At the time of giving this “tambula” he should kiss her mouth softly and gracefully without making any sound. When she is gained over in this respect he should then make her talk, and so that she may be induced to talk he should ask her questions about things of which he knows or pretends to know nothing, and which can be answered in a few words. If she does not speak to him, he should not frighten her, but should ask her the same thing again and again in a conciliatory manner. If she does not then speak he should urge her to give a reply, because as ''Ghotakamukha'' says, “all girls hear everything said to them by men, but do not themselves sometimes say a single word.” When she is thus importuned, the girl should give replies by shakes of the head, but if she quarrelled with the man she should not even do that. When she is asked by the man whether she wishes for him, and whether she likes him, she should remain silent for a long time, and when at last importuned to reply, should give him a favorable answer by a nod of her head. If the man is previously acquainted with the girl he should converse with her by means of a female friend, who may be favorable to him, and in the confidence of both, and carry on the conversation on both sides. On such an occasion the girl should smile with her head bent down, and if the female friend say more on her part than she was desired to do, she should chide her and dispute with her. The female friend should say in jest even what she is not desired to say by the girl, and add, “she says so,” on which the girl should say {{SIC|indistintly|indistinctly}} and {{SIC|prettly|prettily}}, “Oh no! I did not say so,” and she should then smile and throw an occasional glance towards the man.

If the girl is familiar with the man, she should place near him, without saying anything, the ''tambula'', the ointment, or the garland that he may have asked for, or she may tie them up in his upper garment. While she is engaged in this, the man should touch her young breasts in the sounding way of pressing with the nails, and if she prevents him doing this he should say to her, “I will not do it again if you will embrace me,” and should in this way cause her to embrace him. While he is being embraced by her he should pass his hand&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/194</title>
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      <text bytes="2162" sha1="bu2e1k1npynw67b9rr8ulk17b1z54of" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|158|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;glecting him another man would give her something, this is called a doubt on both sides about gain.

(d) When a courtezan is uncertain, whether, on going at her own expense to see an old enemy, he would take back from her what he may have given her, or whether by her not going to see him he would cause some disaster to fall upon her, this is called a doubt on both sides about loss.

By combining the above, the following six kinds of mixed results are produced, viz.:

(a) Gain on one side, and loss on the other.

(b) Gain on one side, and doubt of gain on the other.

(c) Gain on one side, and doubt of loss on the other.

(d) Loss on one side, and doubt of gain on the other.

(e) Doubt of gain on one side, and doubt of loss on the other.

(f) Doubt of loss on one side, and loss on the other.

A courtezan, having considered all the above things and taken counsel with her friends, should act so as to acquire gain, the chances of great gain, and the warding off of any great disaster. Religious merit and pleasure should also be formed into separate combinations like those of wealth, and then all should be combined with each other, so as to form new combinations.

When a courtezan consorts with men she should cause each of them to give her money as well as pleasure. At particular times, such as the Spring Festivals, etc., she should make her mother announce to the various men, that on a certain day her daughter would remain with the man who would gratify such and such a desire of hers.

When young men approach her with delight, she should think of what she may accomplish through them.

The combination of gains and losses on all sides are: gain on one side, and loss on all others; loss on one side and gain on all others; gain on all sides, loss on all sides.

A courtezan should also consider doubts about gain and doubts about loss with reference both to wealth, religious merit, and pleasure.

Thus ends the consideration of gain, loss, attendant gains, attendant losses, and doubts.

The different kinds of courtezans are:

{{plainlist/s}}
* A bawd.
* A female attendant.
* An unchaste woman.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{plainlist/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* A dancing girl.
* A female artisan.
* A woman who has left her family.
* A woman living on her beauty.
* And, finally, a regular courtezan.
{{plainlist/e}}

All the above kinds of courtezans are acquainted with various kinds of men, and should consider the ways of getting money from them, of pleasing them, of separating themselves from them, and of re-uniting with them. They should also take into consideration particular gains and losses, attendant gains and losses, and doubts in accordance with their several conditions.

Thus ends the consideration of courtezans.

There are also two verses on the subject as follows:

&quot;Men want pleasure, while women want money, and therefore this Part, which treats of the means of gaining wealth, should be studied.&quot;

&quot;There are some women who seek for love, and there are others who seek for money; for the former the ways of love are told in previous portions of this work, while the ways of getting money, as practiced by courtezans, are described in this Part.&quot;

{{dhr|4em}}

{{center|END OF PART VI.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{sc|On the Means of Attracting Others to Oneself}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/202</title>
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      <text bytes="2198" sha1="bjhu9hbxrhnt8o91u37m2pnqz0gcuy1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|166|''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;then that pigment is said to be very pure, and wholesome for the eyes, and serves as a means of subjugating others to the person who uses it. The same effect can be produced by black pigment made of the bones of hawks, vultures, and peacocks.

Thus end the ways of subjugating others to one's own will.

Now the means of increasing sexual vigor are as follows:

(a) A man obtains sexual vigor by drinking milk mixed with sugar, the root of the uchchata plant, the piper chaba, and liquorice.

(b) Drinking milk mixed with sugar, and having the testicle of a ram or a goat boiled in it, is also productive of vigor.

(c) The drinking of the juice of the hedysarum gangeticum, the kuili, and the kshirika plant mixed with milk, produces the same effect.

(d) The seed of the long pepper along with the seeds of the sanseviera roxburghiana, and the hedysarum gangeticum plant, all pounded together, and mixed with milk, is productive of a similar result.

(e) According to ancient authors, if a man pounds the seeds or roots of the trapa bispinosa, the kasurika, the tuscan jasmine, and liquorice, together with the kshirakapoli (a kind of onion), and puts the powder into milk mixed with sugar and ghee, and having boiled the whole mixture on a moderate fire, drinks the paste so formed, he will be able to enjoy innumerable women.

(f) In the same way, if a man mixes rice with the eggs of the sparrow, and having boiled this in milk, adds to it ghee and honey, and drinks as much of it as is necessary, this will produce the same effect.

(g) If a man takes the outer covering of sesamum seeds, and soaks them with the eggs of sparrows, and then, having boiled them in milk, mixed with sugar and ghee, along with the fruits of the trapa bispinosa and the kasurika plant, and adding to it the flour of wheat and beans, and then drinks this composition, he is said to be able to enjoy many women.

(h) If ghee, honey, sugar and liquorice in equal quantities, the juice of the fennel plant, and milk are mixed together, this nectar-like composition is said to be holy, and provocative of sexual vigor, a preservative of life, and sweet to the taste.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/203</title>
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      <text bytes="2130" sha1="84n9yn0bv1gfvezhidqcz7e26n25gpz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|167}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;(i) The drinking of a paste composed of the asparagus racemosus, the shvadaushtra plant, the guduchi plant, the long pepper, and liquorice, boiled in milk, honey, and ghee, in the spring, is said to have the same effect as the above.

(j) Boiling the asparagus racemosus, and the shvadaushtra plant, along with the pounded fruits of the premna spinosa in water, and drinking the same, is said to act in the same way.

(k) Drinking boiled ghee, or clarified butter, in the morning during the spring season, is said to be beneficial to health and strength, and agreeable to the taste.

(l) If the powder of the seed of the shvadaushtra plant and the flower of barley are mixed together in equal parts, and a portion of it i.e., two palas in weight, is eaten every morning on getting up, it has the same effect as the preceding recipe.

There are also verses on the subject as follows:

&quot;The means&lt;ref&gt;From the earliest times Oriental authors have occupied themselves about aphrodisiacs. The following note on the subject is taken from page 29 of a translation of the Hindoo Art of Love, otherwise the ''Anunga Runga'' alluded to in the Preface of this work, pages xvi and xvii—&quot;Most Eastern treatises divide aphrodisiacs into two different kinds: 1. the mechanical or natural, such as scarification, flagellation, etc., and, 2, the medicinal or artificial. To the former belong the application of insects, as is practised by some savage races; and all orientalists will remember the tale of the old ''Brahman'', whose young wife insisted upon his being again stung by a wasp.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt; of producing love and sexual vigor should be learnt from the science of medicine, from the Vedas, from those who are learned in the arts of magic, and from confidential relatives. No means should be tried which are doubtful in their effects, which are likely to cause injury to the body, which involve the death of animals, and which bring us in contact with impure things. Such means should only be used as are holy, acknowledged to be good, and approved of by ''Brahmans'' and friends.&quot;
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/208</title>
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      <text bytes="1356" sha1="bwhw8nbnjl0g1wr235gtuex03hgilbq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|172|''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;this work, on my own authority as an author, I have, immediately after mentioning them, carefully censured and prohibited them.

An act is never looked upon with indulgence for the simple reason that it is authorized by the science, because it ought to be remembered that it is the intention of the science that the rules which it contains should only be acted upon in particular cases. After reading and considering the works of ''Babhravya'' and other ancient authors, and thinking over the meaning of the rules given by them, the ''Kama Sutra'' was composed, according to the precepts of Holy Writ, for the benefit of the world, by ''Vatsyayana'', while leading the life of a religious student, and wholly engaged in the contemplation of the Deity.

This work is not intended to be used merely as an instrument for satisfying our desires. A person, acquainted with the true principles of this science, and who preserves his ''Dharma'', ''Artha'', and ''Kama'', and has regard for the practices of the people, is sure to obtain the mastery over his senses.

In short, an intelligent and prudent person, attending to ''Dharma'' and ''Artha'', and attending to ''Kama'' also, without becoming the slave of his passions, obtains success in everything that he may undertake.

{{dhr|4}}

{{center|END OF PART VII.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/205</title>
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      <text bytes="2361" sha1="9rkaxclopajx4j3scz5wdvv0rclessm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|169}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;The people of the southern countries think that true sexual pleasure cannot be obtained without perforating the lingam, and they therefore cause it to be pierced like the lobes of the ears of an infant pierced for ear-rings.

Now, when a young man perforates his lingam he should pierce it with a sharp instrument, and then stand in water so long as the blood continues to flow. At night he should engage in sexual intercourse, even with vigor, so as to clean the hole. After this he should continue to wash the hole with decoctions, and increase the size by putting into it small pieces of cane, and the wrightia antidysenterica, thus gradually enlarging the orifice. It may also be washed with liquorice mixed with honey, and the size of the hole increased by the fruit stalks of the sima-patra plant. The hole should also be annointed with a small quantity of oil.

In the hole made in the lingam a man may put ''Apadravyas'' of various forms, such as the &quot;round,&quot; the &quot;round on one side,&quot; the &quot;wooden mortar,&quot; the &quot;flower,&quot; the &quot;armlet.&quot; the &quot;bone of the heron,&quot; the &quot;goad of the elephant,&quot; the &quot;collection of eight balls,&quot; the &quot;lock of hair,&quot; the &quot;place where four roads meet,&quot; and other things named according to their forms and means of using them. All these ''Apadravyas'' should be rough on the outside according to their requirements.

The ways of enlarging the lingam must be now related.

When a man wishes to enlarge his lingam, he should rub it with the bristles of certain insects that live in trees, and then, after rubbing it for ten nights with oils, he should again rub it with the bristles as before. By continuing to do this a swelling will be gradually produced in the lingam, and he should then lie on a cot, and cause his lingam to hang down through a hole in the cot. After this he should take away all the pain from the swelling by using cool concoctions. The swelling, which is called ''Suka'', and is often brought about among the people of the Dravida country, lasts for life.

If the lingam is rubbed with the following things, viz., the plant physalis flexuosa, the shavara-kandaka plant, the jalasuka plant, the fruit of the egg plant, the butter of a she buffalo, the hasti-charma plant, and the juice of the vajrarasa plant, a swelling lasting for one month will be produced.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/206</title>
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      <text bytes="2329" sha1="h6eejfgf1tgmrm4ddmroz269aquatqo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|170|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;By rubbing it with oil boiled in the concoctions of the above things, the same effect will be produced, but lasting for six months.

The enlargement of the lingam is also effected by rubbing it or moistening it with oil boiled on a moderate fire along with the seeds of the pomegranite, and the cucumber, the juices of the valuka plant, the hasti-charma plant, and the egg-plant.

In addition to the above, other means may be learnt from experienced and confidential persons.

The miscellaneous experiments and recipes are as follows:

(a) If a man mixes the powder of the milk hedge plant, and the kantaka plant with the excrement of a monkey and the powdered root of the lanjalika plant, and throws this mixture on a woman, she will not love anybody else afterwards.

(b) If a man thickens the juice of the fruits of the cassia fistula, and the eugenia jambolana by mixing them with the powder of the soma plant, the vernonia anthelmintica, the eclipta prostata, and the lohopa-jihirka, and applies this composition to the yoni of a woman, and then has sexual intercourse with her, his love for her will be destroyed.

(c) The same effect is produced if a man has connection with a woman who has bathed in the butter-milk of a she-buffalo mixed with the powders of the gopalika plant, the banu-padika plant, and the yellow amaranth.

(d) An ointment made of the flowers of the nauclea cadamba, the hog plum, and the eugenia jambolana, and used by a woman, causes her to be disliked by her husband.

(e) Garlands made of the above flowers, when worn by the woman, produce the same effect.

(f) An ointment made of the fruit of the asteracantha longifolia (kokilaksha) will contract the yoni of a ''Hastini'' or ''elephant -woman'', and this contraction lasts for one night.

(g) An ointment made by pounding the roots of the nelumbrium speciosum, and of the blue lotus, and the powder of the plant physalis flexuosa mixed with ghee and honey, will enlarge the yoni of the ''Mrigi'' or ''deer-woman''.

(h) An ointment made of the fruit of the emblica myrabolans soaked in the milky juice of the milk hedge plant, of the soma plant, the calotropis gigantea, and the juice of the fruit of the vernonia anthelmintica, will make the hair white.

(i) The juice of the roots of the madayantaka plant, the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2163" sha1="twixj5t9gmmlydmnjoq7ginomjpzc3n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|171}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;yellow amaranth, the anjanika plant, the clitoria ternateea, and the shlakshnaparni plant, used as a lotion, will make the hair grow.

(j) An ointment made by boiling the above roots in oil, and rubbed in, will make the hair black, and will also gradually restore hair that has fallen off.

(k) If lac is saturated seven times in the sweat of the testicle of a white horse, and applied to a red lip, the lip will become white.

(l) The color of the lips can be regained by means of the madayantika and other plants mentioned above under (i).

(m) A woman, who hears a man playing on a reed pipe which has been dressed with the juices of the bahupadika plant, the tabernamontana coronaria, the costus speciosus or arabicus, the pinus deodora, the euphorbia antiquorum, the vajra and the kantaka plant, becomes his slave.

(n) If food be mixed with the fruit of the thorn apple (''Dathura'') it causes intoxication.

(o) If water be mixed with oil and the ashes of any kind of grass except the kusha grass, it becomes the color of milk.

(p) If yellow myrabolans, the hog plum, the shrawana plant, and the priyangu plant be all pounded together, and applied to iron pots, these pots become red.

(q) If a lamp, trimmed with oil extracted from the shrawana and priyangu plants, its wick being made of cloth and the slough of the skins of snakes, is lighted, and long pieces of wood placed near it, those pieces of wood will resemble so many snakes.

(r) Drinking the milk of a white cow who has a white calf at her foot is auspicious, produces fame, and preserves life.

(s) The blessings of venerable ''Brahmans'', well propitiated, have the same effect.

{{***|char=†}}

Thus have I written in a few words the ''Science of Love'', after reading the texts of ancient authors, and following the ways of enjoyment mentioned in them.

He who is acquainted with the true principles of this science pays regard to ''Dharma'', ''Artha'', ''Kama'', and to his own experiences, as well as to the teachings of others, and does not act simply on the dictates of his own desire. As for the errors in the science of love which I have mentioned in&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{sc|About a Wife}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2227" sha1="reg1gnyljk2wgcb1x1c4g1jpfri5lse" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER I.}}
{{ph/sub|On the Manner of Living of a Virtuous Woman, and of Her Behavior During the {{SIC|Abesence|Absence}} of Her Husband}}

{{sc|A}} virtuous woman, who has affection for her husband, should act in conformity with his wishes as if he were a divine being, and with his consent should take upon herself the whole care of his family. She should keep the whole house well cleaned, and arrange flowers of various kinds in different parts of it, and make the floor smooth and polished so as to give the whole a neat and becoming appearance. She should surround the house with a garden, and place ready in it all the materials required for the morning, noon, and evening sacrifices. Moreover she should herself revere the sanctuary of the Household Gods, for says ''Gonardiya'', “nothing so much attracts the heart of an householder to his wife as a careful observance of the things mentioned above.”

Towards the parents, relations, friends, sisters, and servants of her husband she should behave as they deserve. In the garden she should plant beds of green vegetables, bunches of the sugar cane, and clumps of the fig tree, the mustard plant, the parsley plant, the fennel plant, and the xanthochymus pictorius. Clusters of various flowers such as the trapa bispinosa, the jasmine, the gasminum grandiflorum, the yellow amaranth, the wild jasmine, the tabernamontana coronaria, the nadyaworta, the china rose and others, should likewise be planted, together with the fragrant grass andropogon, schasnanthus, and the fragrant root of the plant andropogon miricatus. She should also have seats and arbors made in the garden, in the middle of which a well, tank, or pool should be dug.

The wife should always avoid the company of female beggars, female buddhist mendicants, unchaste and rougish women, female fortune tellers and witches. As regards meals she should always consider what her husband likes and dislikes, and what things are good for him, and what are injurious to him When she hears the sounds of his footsteps coming home she should at once get up, and be ready to do whatever he may command her, and either order her female servant to wash his feet, or wash them herself. When going&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|91}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/124</title>
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      <text bytes="2532" sha1="s6zcjr6fy6gdhx81ihy0l5lkwi6105n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|92|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;anywhere with her husband she should put on her ornaments, and without his consent she should not either give or accept invitations, or attend marriages and sacrifices, or sit in the company of female friends, or visit the temples of the Gods. And if she wants to engage in any kind of games or sports, she should not do it against his will. In the same way she should always sit down after him, and get up before him, and should never awaken him when he is asleep. The kitchen should be situated in a quiet and retired place, so as not to be accessible to strangers, and should always look clean.

In the event of any misconduct on the part of her husband, she should not blame him excessively, though she be a little displeased. She should not use abusive language towards him, but rebuke him with conciliatory words, whether he be in the company of friends or alone. Moreover, she should not be a scold, for says ''Gonardiya'' “there is no cause of dislike on the part of a husband so great as this characteristic in a wife.” Lastly she should avoid bad expressions, sulky looks, speaking aside, standing in the doorway, and looking at passers-by, conversing in pleasure groves, and remaining in a lonely place for a long time; and finally she should always keep her body, her teeth, her hair, and everything belonging to her tidy, sweet, and clean.

When the wife wants to approach her husband in private her dress should consist of many ornaments, various kinds of flowers, and a cloth decorated with different colors, and some sweet-smelling ointments or unguents. But her every-day dress should be composed of a thin, close-textured cloth, a few ornaments and flowers, and a little scent, not too much. She should also observe the fasts and vows of her husband, and when he tries to prevent her doing this, she should persuade him to let her do it.

At appropriate times of the year, and when they happen to be cheap, she should buy earth, bamboos, firewood, skins, and iron pots, as also salt and oil. Fragrant substances, vessels made of the fruit of the plant wrightea antidysenterica, or oval leaved wrightea, medicines, and other things which are always wanted, should be obtained when required and kept in a secret place of the house. The seeds of the radish, the potato, the common beet, the Indian wormwood, the mangoe, the cucumber, the egg plant, the kushmanda, the pumpkin gourd, the surana, the bignonia indica, the sandal wood, the premna spinosa, the garlic plant, the onion, and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2482" sha1="sjqvscivqzqy3d514p26h4xfbwrzj7t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|93}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;other vegetables, should be bought and sown at the proper seasons.

The wife, moreover, should not tell to strangers the amount of her wealth, nor the secrets which her husband has confided to her. She should surpass all the women of her own rank in life in her cleverness, her appearance, her knowledge of cookery, her pride, and her manner of serving her husband. The expenditure of the year should be regulated by the profits. The milk that remains after the meals should be turned into ghee or clarified butter. Oil and sugar should be prepared at home; spinning and weaving should also be done there; and a store of ropes and cords, and barks of trees for twisting into ropes should be kept. She should also attend to the pounding and cleaning of rice, using its small grain and chaff in some way or other. She should pay the salaries of the servants, look after the tiling of the fields, the keeping of the flocks and herds, superintend the making of vehicles, and take care of the rams, cocks, quails, parrots, starlings, cuckoos, peacocks, monkeys, and deer; and finally adjust the income and expenditure of the day. The worn-out clothes should be given to those servants who have done good work, in order to show them that their services have been appreciated, or they may be applied to some other use. The vessels in which wine is prepared, as well as those in which it is kept, should be carefully looked after, and put away at the proper time. All sales and purchases should also be well attended to. The friends of her husband she should welcome by presenting them with flowers, ointment, incense, betel leaves, and betel nut. Her father-in-law and mother-in- law she should treat as they deserve, always remaining dependent on their will, never contradicting them, speaking to them in few and not harsh words, not laughing loudly in their presence, and acting with their friends and enemies as with her own. In addition to the above she should not be vain, or too much taken up with her enjoyments. She should be liberal towards her servants, and reward them on holidays and festivals; and not give away anything without first making it known to her husband.

Thus ends the manner of living of a virtuous woman.

During the absence of her husband on a journey the virtuous woman should wear only her auspicious ornaments, and observe the fasts in honor of the Gods. While anxious to hear the news of her husband, she should still look after&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1829" sha1="c50fa9r91mr3m3r3l5deu9qajdncc6g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|94|''Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;her household affairs. She should sleep near the elder women of the house, and make herself agreeable to them. She should look after and keep in repair the things that are liked by her husband, and continue the works that have been begun by him. To the abode of her relations she should not go except on occasions of joy and sorrow, and then she should go in her usual travelling dress, accompanied by her husband’s servants, and not remain there for a long time. The fasts and feasts should be observed with the consent of the elders of the house. The resources should be increased by making purchases and sales according to the practice of the merchants, and by means of honest servants, superintended by herself. The income should be increased, and the expenditure diminished as much as possible. And when her husband returns from his journey, she should receive him at first in her ordinary clothes, so that he may know in what way she has lived during his absence, and should bring to him some presents, as also materials for the worship of the Deity.

Thus ends the part relating to the behavior of a wife during the absence of her husband on a journey.

There are also some verses on the subject as follows:

“The wife, whether she be a woman of noble family, or a virgin widow&lt;ref&gt;This probably refers to a girl married in her infancy, or when very young and whose husband had died before she arrived at the age of puberty. Infant marriages are still the common custom of the Hindoos.&lt;/ref&gt; remarried, or a concubine, should lead a chaste life, devoted to her husband, and doing every thing for his welfare. Women acting thus, acquire ''Dharma'', ''Artha'', and ''Kama'', obtain a high position, and generally keep their husbands devoted to them.”
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      <text bytes="2093" sha1="j0508oj7l9jhhoovko01q9tgek4i4e1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER II.}}
{{ph/sub|On the Conduct of the Elder Wife Towards the Other Wives of Her Husband, and on that of a Younger Wife towards the Elder Ones. Also on the Conduct of a Virgin Widow Re-married; of a Wife Disliked by Her Husband; of the Women in the King’s Harem; and Lastly on the Conduct of a Husband Towards Many Wives.}}

The causes of re-marriage during the lifetime of the wife are as follows:

{center block|
:(1) The folly or ill temper of the wife.
:(2) Her husband’s dislike to her.
:(3) The want of offspring.
:(4) The continual birth of daughters.
:(5) The incontinence of the husband.
}}

From the very beginning a wife should endeavor to attract the heart of her husband by showing to him continually her devotion, her good temper, and her wisdom. If however, she bears him no children, she should herself tell her husband to marry another woman. And when the second wife is married, and brought to the house, the first wife should give her a position superior to her own, and look upon her as a sister. In the morning the elder wife should forcibly make the younger one decorate herself in the presence of their husband, and should not mind all the husband’s favor being given to her. If the younger wife does anything to displease her husband the elder one should not neglect her, but should always be ready to give her the most careful advice, and should teach her to do various things in the presence of her husband. Her children she should treat as her own, her attendants she should look upon with more regard even than on her own servants, her friends she should cherish with love and kindness, and her relations with great honor.

When there are many other wives besides herself, the elder wife should associate with the one who is immediately next to her in rank and age, and should instigate the wife who has recently enjoyed her husband’s favor to quarrel with the present favorite. After this she should sympathize with the former, and having collected all the other wives together, should get them to denounce the favorite as a scheming and&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|95}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2094" sha1="qldr946asb8ad0z0zjpyfw4po3fd6p3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER II.}}
{{ph/sub|On the Conduct of the Elder Wife Towards the Other Wives of Her Husband, and on that of a Younger Wife towards the Elder Ones. Also on the Conduct of a Virgin Widow Re-married; of a Wife Disliked by Her Husband; of the Women in the King’s Harem; and Lastly on the Conduct of a Husband Towards Many Wives.}}

The causes of re-marriage during the lifetime of the wife are as follows:

{{center block|
:(1) The folly or ill temper of the wife.
:(2) Her husband’s dislike to her.
:(3) The want of offspring.
:(4) The continual birth of daughters.
:(5) The incontinence of the husband.
}}

From the very beginning a wife should endeavor to attract the heart of her husband by showing to him continually her devotion, her good temper, and her wisdom. If however, she bears him no children, she should herself tell her husband to marry another woman. And when the second wife is married, and brought to the house, the first wife should give her a position superior to her own, and look upon her as a sister. In the morning the elder wife should forcibly make the younger one decorate herself in the presence of their husband, and should not mind all the husband’s favor being given to her. If the younger wife does anything to displease her husband the elder one should not neglect her, but should always be ready to give her the most careful advice, and should teach her to do various things in the presence of her husband. Her children she should treat as her own, her attendants she should look upon with more regard even than on her own servants, her friends she should cherish with love and kindness, and her relations with great honor.

When there are many other wives besides herself, the elder wife should associate with the one who is immediately next to her in rank and age, and should instigate the wife who has recently enjoyed her husband’s favor to quarrel with the present favorite. After this she should sympathize with the former, and having collected all the other wives together, should get them to denounce the favorite as a scheming and&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|95}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/128</title>
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      <text bytes="2414" sha1="npf50st6ggvi1kc0qadgbw9lrfbn7am" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|96|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;wicked woman, without however committing herself in any way. If the favorite wife happens to quarrel with the husband, then the elder wife should take her part and give her false encouragement, and thus cause the quarrel to be increased. If there be only a little quarrel between the two, the elder wife should do all she can to work it up into a large quarrel. But if after all this she finds that her husband still continues to love his favorite wife, she should then change her tactics, and endeavor to bring about a conciliation between them, so as to avoid her husband’s displeasure.

Thus ends the conduct of the elder wife.

The younger wife should regard the elder wife of her husband as her mother, and should not give anything away, even to her own relations, without her knowledge. She should tell her everything about herself, and not approach her husband without her permission. Whatever is told to her by the elder wife she should not reveal to others, and she should take care of the children of the senior even more than of her own. When alone with her husband she should serve him well, but should not tell him of the pain she suffers from the existence of a rival wife. She may also obtain secretly from her husband some marks of his particular regard for her, and may tell him that she lives only for him, and for the regard that he has for her. She should never reveal her love for her husband, nor her husband’s love for her to any person either in pride or in anger, for a wife that reveals the secrets of her husband is despised by him. As for seeking to obtain the regard of her husband, ''Gonardiya'' says, that it should always be done in private, for fear of the elder wife. If the elder wife be disliked by her husband, or be childless, she should sympathize with her, and should ask her husband to do the same, but should surpsass her in leading the life of a chaste woman.

Thus ends the conduct of the younger wife towards the elder.

A widow in poor circumstances, or of a weak nature, and who allies herself again to a man, is called a widow remarried.

The followers of ''Babhravya'' say that a virgin widow should not marry a person whom she may be obliged to leave on account of his bad character, or of his being destitute of the excellent qualities of a man, she thus being obliged to have recourse to another person. ''Gonardya'' is of opinion&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/129</title>
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      <text bytes="2476" sha1="51v72ck0xqu7t1he486206y0n2ez4wi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|97}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;that as the cause of a widow’s marrying again is her desire for happiness, and as happiness is secured by the possession of excellent qualities in her husband, joined to a love of enjoyment, it is better therefore to secure a person endowed with such qualities in the first instance. ''Vatsyayana'', however, thinks that a widow may marry any person that she likes, and that she thinks will suit her.

At the time of her marriage the widow should obtain from her husband the money to pay the cost of drinking parties, and picnics with her relations, and of giving them and her friends kindly gifts and presents; or she may do these things at her own cost if she likes. In the same way she may wear either her husband’s ornaments or her own. As to the presents of affection mutually exchanged between the husband and herself there is no fixed rule about them. If she leaves her husband after marriage of her own accord, she should restore to him whatever he may have given her, with the exception of the mutual presents. If however, she is driven out of the house by her husband she should not return anything to him.

After her marriage she should live in the house of her husband like one of the chief members of the family, but should treat the other ladies of the family with kindness, the servants with generosity, and all the friends of the house with familiarity and good temper. She should show that she is better acquainted with the sixty-four arts than the other ladies of the house, and in any quarrels with her husband she should not rebuke him severely, but in private do everything that he wishes, and make use of the sixty-four ways of enjoyment. She should be obliging to the other wives of her husband, and to their children she should give presents, behave as their mistress, and make ornaments and play-things for their use. In the friends and servants of her husband she should confide more than in his other wives, and finally she should have a liking for drinking parties, going to picnics, attending fairs and festivals, and for carrying out all kinds of games and amusements.

Thus ends the conduct of a virgin widow re-married.

A woman who is disliked by her husband, and annoyed and distressed by his other wives, should associate with the wife who is liked most by her husband, and who serves him more than the others, and should teach her all the arts with which she is acquainted. She should act as the nurse of her&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2756" sha1="b4dqwyj6yh9kxagc75bbsioz82znqca" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|98|''The Kama Sutra''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;husband’s children, and having gained over his friends to her side, should through them make him acquainted of her devotion to him. In religious ceremonies she should be a leader, as also in vows and fasts, and should not hold too good an opinion of herself. When her husband is lying on his bed, she should only go near him when it is agreeable to him, and should never rebuke him, or show obstinacy in any way. If her husband happens to quarrel with any of his other wives, she should reconcile them to each other, and if he desires to see any woman secretly, she should manage to bring about the meeting between them. She should moreover make herself acquainted with the weak points of her husband’s character, but always keep them secret, and on the whole behave herself in such a way as may lead him to look upon her as a good and devoted wife.

Here ends the conduct of a wife disliked by her husband.

The above sections will show how all the women of the King’s seraglio are to behave, and therefore we shall now speak separately only about the king.

The female attendants in the harem (called severally ''Kanchukiyas'',&lt;ref&gt;A name given to the maid servants of the ''zenana'' of the King in ancient times, on account of their always keeping their breasts covered with a cloth called ''kanchuki''. It was customary in the olden time for the maid servants to cover their breasts with a cloth, while the Queens kept their breasts uncovered. This custom is distinctly to be seen in the ''Ajunta'' cave paintings.&lt;/ref&gt; ''Mahallarikas'',&lt;ref&gt;The meaning of this word is a superior woman, so it would seem that a ''Mahallarika'' must be a person in authority over the maid servants of the harem.&lt;/ref&gt; and ''Mahallikas'',&lt;ref&gt;This was also appertaining to the rank of women employed in the harem. In later times this place was given to eunuchs.&lt;/ref&gt;) should bring flowers, ointments and clothes from the King’s wives to the King, and he having received these things should give them as presents to the servants, along with the things worn by him the previous day. In the afternoon the King having dressed and put on his ornaments should interview the women of the harem, who should also be dressed and decorated with jewels. Then having given to each of them such a place and such respect as may suit the occasion and as they may deserve, he should carry on with them a cheerful conversation. After that he should see such of his wives as may be virgin widows re-married, and after them the concubines and dancing girls. All of these should be visited in their own private rooms.

When the King rises from his noonday sleep, the woman whose duty it is to inform the King regarding the wife who&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2653" sha1="dqm0kt4mivqlh0v2et0sukarhl26n70" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|99}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;is to spend the night with him should come to him accompanied by the female attendants of that wife whose turn may have arrived in the regular course, and of her who may have been accidentally passed over as her turn arrived, and of her who may have been unwell at the time of her turn. These attendants should place before the King the ointments and unguents sent by each of these wives, marked with the seal of her ring, and their names and their reasons for sending the ointments should be told to the King. After this the King accepts the ointment of one of them, who then is informed that her ointment has been accepted, and that her day has been settled.&lt;ref&gt;As Kings generally had many wives, it was usual for them to enjoy their wives by turns. But as it happened sometimes that some of them lost their turns owing to the King’s absence, or to their being unwell, then in such cases the women whose turns had been passed over, and those whose turns had come, used to have a sort of lottery, and the ointment of all the claimants were sent to the King, who accepted the ointment of one of them, and thus settled the question.&lt;/ref&gt;

At festivals, singing parties and exhibitions all the wives of the King should be treated with respect and served with drinks.

But the women of the harem should not be allowed to go out alone, neither should any woman outside the harem be allowed to enter it except those whose character is well known. And lastly the work which the King’s wives have to do should not be too fatiguing.

Thus ends the conduct of the King towards the women of the harem, and of their own conduct.

A man marrying many wives should act fairly towards them all. He should neither disregard nor pass over their faults, and should not reveal to one wife the love, passion, bodily blemishes, and confidential reproaches of the other. No opportunity should be given to any one of them of speaking to him about their rivals, and if one of them should begin to speak ill of another, he should chide her and tell her that she has exactly the same blemishes in her character. One of them he should please by secret confidence, another by secret respect, and another by secret flattery, and he should please them all by going to gardens, by amusements, by presents, by honoring their relations, by telling them secrets, and lastly by loving unions. A young woman who is of a good temper, and who conducts herself according to the precepts of the Holy Writ wins her husband’s attachment, and obtains a superiority over her rivals.

Thus ends the conduct of a husband towards many wives.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2469" sha1="l0ywjvpabzxxropo8mefi5trf07otcr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|76|''The Kama Sutra''| }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;repeatedly over and about her body. By and by he should place her in his lap, and try more and more to gain her consent, and if she will not yield to him he should frighten her by saying, &quot;I shall impress marks of my teeth and nails on your lips and breasts, and then make similar marks on my own body, and shall tell my friends that you did them. What will you say then?&quot; In this and other ways, as fear and confidence are created in the minds of children, so should the man gain her over to his wishes.

On the second and third nights, after her confidence has increased still more, he should feel the whole of her body with his hands, and kiss her all over; he should also place his hands upon her thighs and if he succeed in this he should then shampoo the joints of her thighs. If she tries to prevent him doing this he should say to her, &quot;What harm is there in doing it?&quot; and should persuade her to let him do it. After gaining this point he should touch her private parts, should loosen her girdle and the knot of her dress, and turning up her lower garment should shampoo the joints of her naked thighs. Under various pretences he should do all these things, but he should not at that time begin actual congress. After this he should teach her the sixty-four arts, should tell her how much he loves her, and describe to her the hopes which he formerly entertained regarding her. He should also promise to be faithful to her in future, and should dispel all her fears with respect to rival women, and, at last, after having overcome her bashfulness, he should begin to enjoy her in a way so as not to frighten her. So much about creating confidence in the girl; and there are, moreover, some verses on the subject as follows:—

A man acting according to the inclinations of a girl should try and gain her over so that she may love him and place her confidence in him. A man does not succeed either by implicitly following the inclination of a girl, or by wholly opposing her, and he should therefore adopt a middle course. He who knows how to make himself beloved by women, as well as to increase their honor and create confidence in them, this man becomes an object of their love. But he, who neglects a girl thinking she is too bashful, is despised by her as a beast ignorant of the working of the female mind. Moreover, a girl forcibly enjoyed by one who does not understand the hearts of girls becomes nervous, uneasy, and de-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2197" sha1="b86jov6h1b0wvij4j7c7sywcguhclt1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER III.}}
{{ph/sub|On Courtship, and the Manifestation of the Feelings by Outward Signs and Deeds.}}

{{sc|A poor}} man possessed of good qualities, a man born of a low family possessed of mediocre qualities, a neighbor possessed of wealth, and one under the control of his father, mother or brothers, should not marry without endeavoring to gain over a girl from her childhood to love and esteem him. Thus a boy separated from his parents, and living in the house of his uncle, should try to gain over the daughter of his uncle, or some other girl, even though she be previously betrothed to another. And this way of gaining over a girl, says ''Ghotakamukha'', is unexceptionable, because ''Dharma'' can be accomplished by means of it, as well as by any other way of marriage.

When a boy has thus begun to woo the girl he loves, he should spend his time with her and and amuse her with various games and diversions fitted for their age and acquaintanceship, such as picking and collecting flowers, making garlands of flowers, playing the parts of members of a fictitious family, cooking food, playing with dice, playing with cards, the game of odd and even, the game of finding out the middle finger, the game of six pebbles, and such other games as may be prevalent in the country, and agreeable to the disposition of the girl. In addition to this, he should carry on various amusing games, played by several persons together, such as hide and seek, playing with seeds, hiding things in several small heaps of wheat and looking for them, blindman's buff, gymnastic exercises, and other games of the same sort in company with the girl, her friends and female attendants. The man should also show great kindness to any woman whom the girl thinks fit to be trusted, and should also make new acquaintances, but above all he should attach to himself by kindness and little services the daughter of the girl's nurse, for if she be gained over, even though she comes to know of his design, she does not cause any obstruction, but is sometimes even able to effect an union between him and the girl. And though she knows the true character of the man, she always talks of his many&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center|78}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2417" sha1="3b0hmc1twlkys9ndrubhpbbrqc9r87e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|79}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;excellent qualities to the parents and relations of the girl, even though she may not be desired to do so by him.

In this way the man should do whatever the girl takes most delight in, and he should get for her whatever she may have a desire to possess. Thus he should procure for her such playthings as may be hardly known to other girls. He may also show her a ball dyed with various colors, and other curiosities of the same sort; and should give her dolls made of cloth, wood, buffalo-horn, ivory, wax, flour, or earth; also utensils for cooking food, and figures in wood, such as a man and woman standing, a pair of rams, or goats, or sheep; also temples made of earth, bamboo, or wood, dedicated to various goddesses; and cages for parrots, cuckoos, starlings, quails, cocks, and partridges; water-vessels of different sorts and of elegant forms, machines for throwing water about, guitars, stands for putting images upon, stools, lac, red arsenic, yellow ointment, vermilion and collyrium, as well as sandal-wood, saffron, betel nut and betel leaves. Such things should be given at different times whenever he gets a good opportunity of meeting her, and some of them should be given in private, and some in public, according to circumstances. In short, he should try in every way to make her look upon him as one who would do for her everything that she wanted to be done.

In the next place he should get her to meet him in some place privately, and should then tell her that the reason of his giving presents to her in secret was the fear that the parents of both of them might be displeased, and then he may add that the things which he had given her had been much desired by other people. When her love beings to show signs of increasing he should relate to her agreeable stories if she expresses a wish to hear such narratives. Or if she takes delight in legerdemain, he should amaze her by performing various tricks of jugglery; or if she feels a great curiosity to see a performance of the various arts, he should show his own skill in them. When she is delighted with singing he should entertain her with music, and on certain days, and at the time of going together to moonlight fairs and festivals, and at the time of her return after being absent from home, he should present her with bouquets of flowers, and with chaplets for the head and with ear orna-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2482" sha1="cc821w9pzw7t625arzv7k37jjjlqik3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|80|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ments and rings, for these are the proper occasions on which such things should be presented.

He should also teach the daughter of the girl's nurse all the sixty-four means of pleasure practiced by men, and under this pretext should also inform her of his great skill in the art of sexual enjoyment. All this time he should wear a fine dress, and make as good an appearance as possible, for young women love men who live with them, and who are handsome, good looking, and well dressed. As for the saying that though women may fall in love, they still make no effort themselves to gain over the object of their affections, that is only a matter of idle talk.

Now a girl always shows her love by outward signs and actions such as the following:—She never looks the man in the face, and becomes abashed when she is looked at by him; under some pretext or other she shows her limbs to him; she looks secretly at him though he has gone away from her side; hangs down her head when she is asked some question by him, and answers in indistinct words and unfinished sentences, delights to be in his company for a long time, speaks to her attendants in a peculiar tone with the hope of attracting his attention towards her when she is at a distance from him, does not wish to go from the place where he is, under some pretext or other she makes him look at different things, narrates to him tales and stories very slowly, so that she may continue conversing with him for a long time, kisses and embraces before him a child sitting in her lap, draws ornamental marks on the foreheads of her female servants, performs sportive and graceful movements when her attendants speak jestingly to her in the presence of her lover, confides in her lover's friends, and respects and obeys them, shows kindness to his servants, converses with them, and engages them to do her work as if she were their mistress, and listens attentively to them when they tell stories about her lover to somebody else, enters his house when induced to do so by the daughter of her nurse, and by her assistance manages to converse and play with him, avoids being seen by her lover when she is not dressed and decorated, gives him by the hand of her female friend her ear ornament, ring, or garland of flowers that he may have asked to see, always wears anything that he may have presented to her, becomes dejected when any other bridegroom is mentioned by her parents, and does not mix with&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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There are also some verses on the subject as follows:—

A man, who has seen and perceived the feelings of the girl towards him, and who has noticed the outward signs and movements by which those feelings are expressed, should do everything in his power to effect an union with her. He should gain over a young girl by childlike sports, a damsel come of age by his skill in the arts, and a girl that loves him by having recourse to persons in whom she confides.
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      <text bytes="2169" sha1="97vqc0gb68qfflgfkdnbftvac517kni" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|CHAPTER IV.}}
{{ph/sub|About Things to be Done Only by the Man, and the Acquisition of the Girl Thereby. Also, What is to be Done by a Girl to Gain Over a Man, and Subject Him to Her.}}

{{sc|Now}} when the girl begins to show her love by outward signs and motions, as described in the last chapter, the lover should try to gain her over entirely by various ways and means, such as the following:—

When engaged with her in any game or sport he should intentionally hold her hand. He should practice upon her the various kinds of embraces, such as the touching embrace, and others already described in a preceding chapter (Part II., Capter 2) . He should show her a pair of human beings cut out of the leaf of a tree, and such like things, at intervals. When engaged in water sports, he should dive at a distance from her, and come up close to her. He should show an increased liking for the new foliage of trees and such like things. He should describe to her the pangs he suffers on her account. He should relate to her the beautiful dream that he has had with reference to other women. At parties and assemblies of his caste he should sit near her, and touch her under some pretence or other, and having placed his foot upon hers, he should slowly touch each of her toes, and press the ends of the nails; if successful in this, he should get hold of her foot with his hand and repeat the same thing. He should also press a finger of her hand between his toes when she happens to be washing his feet; and whenever he gives anything to her or takes anything from her, he should show her by his manner and look how much he loves her.

He should sprinkle upon her the water brought for rinsing his mouth; and when alone with her in a lonely place, or in darkness, he should make love to her, and tell her the true state of his mind without distressing her in any way.

Whenever he sits with her on the same seat or bed he should say to her, &quot;I have something to tell you in private,&quot; and then, when she comes to hear it in a quiet place, he should express his love to her more by manner and signs than by words. When he comes to know the state of her&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center|82}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2485" sha1="hiit8zqy9rg72jau4us9mboncmfpmr1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana''|83 }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;feelings towards him he should pretend to be ill, and should make her come to his house to speak to him. There he should intentionally hold her hand and place it on his eyes and forehead, and under the pretence of preparing some medicine for him he should ask her to do the work for his sake in the following words: &quot;This work must be done by you, and by nobody else.&quot; When she wants to go away he should let her go, with an earnest request to come and see him again. This device of illness should be continued for three days and three nights. After this, when she begins coming to see him frequently, he should carry on long conversations with her, for, says ''Ghotakamukha'', &quot;though a man loves a girl ever so much, he never succeeds in winning her without a great deal of talking.&quot; At last, when the man finds the girl completely gained over, he may then begin to enjoy her. As for the saying that women grow less timid than usual during the evening, at night, and in darkness, and are desirous of congress at those times, and do not oppose men then, and should only be enjoyed at these hours, it is a matter of talk only.

When it is impossible for the man to carry on his endeavors alone, he should, by means of the daughter of her nurse, or of a female friend in whom she confides, cause the girl to be brought to him without making known to her his design, and he should then proceed with her in the manner above described. Or he should in the beginning send his own female servant to live with the girl as her friend, and should then gain her over by her means.

At last, when he knows the state of her feelings by her outward manner and conduct towards him at religious ceremonies, marriage ceremonies, fairs, festivals, theatres, public assemblies, and such like occasions, he should begin to enjoy her when she is alone, for ''Vatsyayana'' lays it down, that women, when resorted to at proper times and in proper places, do not turn away from their lovers.

When a girl, possessed of good qualities and well-bred, though born in a humble family, or destitute of wealth, and not therefore desired by her equals, or an orphan girl, or one deprived of her parents, but observing the rules of her family and caste, should wish to bring about her own marriage when she comes of age, such a girl should endeavor to gain over a strong and good looking young man, or a person whom she thinks would marry her on account of the weakness of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2494" sha1="qecxbdphx7q8mn8n7wll8e606mg0ex0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh|84|''The Kama Sutra''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;his mind, and even without the consent of his parents. She should do this by such means as would endear her to the said person, as well as by frequently seeing and meeting him. Her mother also should constantly cause them to meet by means of her female friends, and the daughter of her nurse. The girl herself should try to get alone with her beloved in some quiet place, and at odd times should give him flowers, betel nut, betel leaves, and perfumes. She should also show her skill in the practice of the arts, in shampooing, in scratching, and in pressing with the nails. She should also talk to him on the subjects he likes best, and discuss with him the ways and means of gaining over and winning the affections of a girl.

But old authors say that although the girl loves the man ever so much, she should not offer herself, or make the first overtures, for a girl who does this loses her dignity, and is liable to be scorned and rejected. But when the man shows his wish to enjoy her, she should be favorable to him, and should show no change in her demeanour when he embraces her, and should receive all the manifestations of his love as if she were ignorant of the state of his mind. But when he tries to kiss her she should oppose him; when he begs to be allowed to have sexual intercourse with her she should let him touch her private parts only and with considerable difficulty; and though importuned by him, she should not yield herself up to him as if of her own accord, but should resist his attempts to have her. It is only, moreover, when she is certain that she is truly loved, and that her lover is indeed devoted to her, and will not change his mind, that she should then give herself up to him, and persuade him to marry her quickly. After losing her virginity she should tell her confidential friends about it.

Here end the efforts of a girl to gain over a man.

There are also some verses on the subject as follows; A girl who is much sought after should marry the man that she likes, and whom she thinks would be obedient to her, and capable of giving her pleasure. But when from the desire of wealth a girl is married by her parents to a rich man without taking into consideration the character or looks of the bridegroom, or when given to a man who has several wives, she never becomes attached to the man, even though he be endowed with good qualities, obedient to her will, active, strong, and healthy, and anxious to please her in every&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1306" sha1="lz68gqxfxwk44wqpbqgvifvrlejte84" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''of Vatsyayana''|85}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;way.&lt;ref&gt;There is a good deal of truth in the last few observations. Woman is a monogamous animal, and loves but one, and likes to feel herself alone in the affections of one man, and cannot bear rivals. It may also be taken as a general rule that women either married to, or kept by, rich men, love them for their wealth, but not for themselves.&lt;/ref&gt; A husband who is obedient but yet master of himself, though he be poor and not good looking, is better than one who is common to many women, even though he be handsome and attractive. The wives of rich men, where there are many wives, are not generally attached to their husbands, and are not confidential with them, and even though they possess all the external enjoyments of life, still have recourse to other men. A man who is of a low mind, who has fallen from his social position, and who is much given to travelling, does not deserve to be married; neither does one who has many wives and children, or one who is devoted to sport and gambling, and who comes to his wife only when he likes. Of all the lovers of a girl he only is her true husband who possesses the qualities that are liked by her, and such a husband only enjoys real superiority over her, because he is the husband of love.
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/116</title>
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{{ph/sub|On Certain Forms of Marriage&lt;ref&gt;These forms of marriage differ from the four kinds of marriage mentioned in Chapter 1, and are only to be made use of when the girl is gained over in the way mentioned in Chapters III and IV.&lt;/ref&gt;}}

{{sc|When}} a girl cannot meet her lover frequently in private, she should send the daughter of her nurse to him, it being understood that she has confidence in her, and had previously gained her over to her interests. On seeing the man, the daughter of the nurse should, in the course of conversation, describe to him the noble birth, the good disposition, the beauty, talent, skill, knowledge of human nature, and affection of the girl in such a way as not to let him suppose that she had been sent by the girl, and should thus create affection for the girl in the heart of the man. To the girl also she should speak about the excellent qualities of the man, especially of those qualities which she knows are pleasing to the girl. She should, moreover, speak with disparagement of the other lovers of the girl, and talk about the avarice and indiscretion of their parents, and the fickleness of their relations. She should also quote samples of many girls of ancient times, such as ''Sakuntala'' and others, who, having united themselves with lovers of their own caste and their own choice, were ever happy afterwards in their society. She should also tell of other girls who married into great families, and being troubled by rival wives became wretched and miserable, and were finally abandoned. She should further speak of the good fortune, the continual happiness, the chastity, obedience, and affection of the man, and if the girl gets amorous about him, she should endeavor to allay her shame&lt;ref&gt;About this, see a story on the fatal effects of love at page 114 of &quot;''Early Ideas; A Group of Hindoo Stories,''&quot; collected and collated by ''Anaryan''. W. H. Allen « Co., London, 1881.&lt;/ref&gt;and her fear as well as her suspicions about any disaster that might result from her marriage. In a word, she should act the whole part of a female messenger by telling the girl all about the man's affection for her, the places he frequented, and the endeavors he made to meet her, and by frequently repeating, &quot;It will be all right if the man will take you away forcibly and unexpectedly.&quot;
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/117</title>
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When the girl is gained over, and acts openly with the man as his wife, he should cause fire to be brought from the house of a ''Brahman'', and having spread the ''Kusha'' grass upon the ground, and offered an oblation to the fire, he should marry her according to the precepts of the religious law. After this he should inform his parents of the fact, because it is the opinion of ancient authors that a marriage solemnly contracted in the presence of fire cannot afterwards be set aside.

After the consummation of the marriage, the relations of the man should gradually be made acquainted with the affair, and the relations of the girl should also be apprised of it in such a way that they may consent to the marriage, and overlook the manner in which it was brought about, and when this is done they should afterwards be reconciled by affectionate presents and favorable conduct. In this manner the man should marry the girl according to the ''Gandharva'' form of marriage.

When the girl cannot make up her mind, or will not express her readiness to marry, the man should obtain her in any one of the following ways:—

(1) On a fitting occasion, and under some excuse, he should, by means of a female friend with whom he is well acquainted and whom he can trust, and who also is well known to the girl's family, get the girl brought unexpectedly to his house, and he should then bring fire from the house of a ''Brahman'', and proceed as before described.

(2) When the marriage of the girl with some other person draws near, the man should disparage the future husband to the utmost in the mind of the mother of the girl, and then having got the girl to come with her mother's consent to a neighbouring house, he should bring fire from the house of a ''Brahman'', and proceed as above.

(3) The man should become a great friend of the brother of the girl, the said brother being of the same age as himself, and addicted to courtezans, and to intrigues with the wives of other people, and should give him assistance in such matters, and also give him occasional presents. He should then tell him about his great love for his sister, as young men will sacrifice even their lives for the sake of those who may be of the same age, habits, and dispositions as themselves. After this the man should get the girl brought by means of her brother to some secure place, and having&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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When the girl is gained over, and acts openly with the man as his wife, he should cause fire to be brought from the house of a ''Brahman'', and having spread the ''Kusha'' grass upon the ground, and offered an oblation to the fire, he should marry her according to the precepts of the religious law. After this he should inform his parents of the fact, because it is the opinion of ancient authors that a marriage solemnly contracted in the presence of fire cannot afterwards be set aside.

After the consummation of the marriage, the relations of the man should gradually be made acquainted with the affair, and the relations of the girl should also be apprised of it in such a way that they may consent to the marriage, and overlook the manner in which it was brought about, and when this is done they should afterwards be reconciled by affectionate presents and favorable conduct. In this manner the man should marry the girl according to the ''Gandharva'' form of marriage.

When the girl cannot make up her mind, or will not express her readiness to marry, the man should obtain her in any one of the following ways:—

(1) On a fitting occasion, and under some excuse, he should, by means of a female friend with whom he is well acquainted and whom he can trust, and who also is well known to the girl's family, get the girl brought unexpectedly to his house, and he should then bring fire from the house of a ''Brahman'', and proceed as before described.

(2) When the marriage of the girl with some other person draws near, the man should disparage the future husband to the utmost in the mind of the mother of the girl, and then having got the girl to come with her mother's consent to a neighbouring house, he should bring fire from the house of a ''Brahman'', and proceed as above.

(3) The man should become a great friend of the brother of the girl, the said brother being of the same age as himself, and addicted to courtezans, and to intrigues with the wives of other people, and should give him assistance in such matters, and also give him occasional presents. He should then tell him about his great love for his sister, as young men will sacrifice even their lives for the sake of those who may be of the same age, habits, and dispositions as themselves. After this the man should get the girl brought by means of her brother to some secure place, and having&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu/118</title>
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(4) The man should on the occasion of festivals get the daughter of the nurse to give the girl some intoxicating substance, and then cause her to be brought to some secure place under the pretense of some business, and there having enjoyed her before she recovers from her intoxication, should bring fire from the house of a ''Brahman'', and proceed as before.

(5) The man should, with the connivance of the daughter of the nurse, carry off the girl from her house while she is asleep, and then, having enjoyed her before she recovers from her sleep, should bring fire from the house of a ''Brahman'', and proceed as before.

(6) When the girl goes to a garden, or to some village in the neighborhood, the man should, with his friends, fall on her guards, and having killed them, or frightened them away, forcibly carry her off, and proceed as before.

There are verses on this subject as follows: — In all the forms of marriage given in this chapter of this work, the one that precedes is better than the one that follows it on account of its being more in accordance with the commands of religion, and therefore it is only when it is impossible to carry the former into practice that the latter should be resorted to. As the fruit of all good marriages is love, the ''Gandharva''&lt;ref&gt;About the ''Gandharvavivaha'' form of marriage, see note to page 28 of Captain ''R. F. Burton's &quot;Vickram and the Vampire or Tales of Hindu Devilry.&quot;'' Longman's, Green Co., London, 1870. &quot;This form of matrimony was recognized by the ancient Hindoos, and is frequent in books. It is a kind of Scotch wedding — ultra Caledonian — taking place by mutual consent without any form or ceremony. The ''Gandharvas'' are heavenly minstrels of ''Indra's'' court, who are supposed to be witnesses.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt; form of marriage is respected, even though it is formed under unfavorable circumstances, because it fulfills the object sought for. Another cause of the respect accorded to the ''Gandharva'' form of marriage is, that it brings forth happiness, causes less trouble in its performance than the other forms of marriage, and is above all the result of previous love.


{{center|{{x-larger|'''END OF PART III.'''}}}}
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(4) The man should on the occasion of festivals get the daughter of the nurse to give the girl some intoxicating substance, and then cause her to be brought to some secure place under the pretense of some business, and there having enjoyed her before she recovers from her intoxication, should bring fire from the house of a ''Brahman'', and proceed as before.

(5) The man should, with the connivance of the daughter of the nurse, carry off the girl from her house while she is asleep, and then, having enjoyed her before she recovers from her sleep, should bring fire from the house of a ''Brahman'', and proceed as before.

(6) When the girl goes to a garden, or to some village in the neighborhood, the man should, with his friends, fall on her guards, and having killed them, or frightened them away, forcibly carry her off, and proceed as before.

There are verses on this subject as follows:—In all the forms of marriage given in this chapter of this work, the one that precedes is better than the one that follows it on account of its being more in accordance with the commands of religion, and therefore it is only when it is impossible to carry the former into practice that the latter should be resorted to. As the fruit of all good marriages is love, the ''Gandharva''&lt;ref&gt;About the ''Gandharvavivaha'' form of marriage, see note to page 28 of Captain ''R. F. Burton's &quot;Vickram and the Vampire or Tales of Hindu Devilry.&quot;'' Longman's, Green Co., London, 1870. &quot;This form of matrimony was recognized by the ancient Hindoos, and is frequent in books. It is a kind of Scotch wedding—ultra Caledonian—taking place by mutual consent without any form or ceremony. The ''Gandharvas'' are heavenly minstrels of ''Indra's'' court, who are supposed to be witnesses.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt; form of marriage is respected, even though it is formed under unfavorable circumstances, because it fulfills the object sought for. Another cause of the respect accorded to the ''Gandharva'' form of marriage is, that it brings forth happiness, causes less trouble in its performance than the other forms of marriage, and is above all the result of previous love.


{{center|{{x-larger|END OF PART III.}}}}
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    <title>Page:A cyclopaedia of female biography.djvu/625</title>
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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Pearson, Margaret&quot; /&gt;{{center|{{larger|PEARSON, MARGARET,}}}}
{{sc|Was}} an English lady, daughter of Samuel Patterson, an eminent book-auctioneer. She early manifested a taste for the fine arts; and on marrying Mr. Pearson, a painter on glass, she devoted herself to that branch of the art, in which she attained peculiar excellence. Among other fine specimens of her skill were two sets of the cartoons of Raphael, one of which was purchased by the Marquis of Lansdowne, and the other by Sir Gregory Page Turner. She died in 1823.
&lt;section end=&quot;Pearson, Margaret&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Peirson, Lydia Jane&quot; /&gt;{{center|{{larger|PEIRSON, LYDIA JANE,}}}}
{{sc|Was}} born in Middletown, (Connecticut. Her father, William Wheeler, was a man of education and of a poetic turn of mind, and from him his daughter probably inherited her genius. From her earliest years. Miss Wheeler displayed that fondness for poetry and music which was to characterize her after life, and almost in her infancy was accustomed to compose verses, and sing them to little wild airs of her own. These first songs were all of God and nature, she being, like almost all children of genius, of a devotional cast of mind, and exquisitely sensible of beauty. Her powers of memory were unusually great; and in several instances she learned by heart whole books, such as &quot;[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]] [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]],&quot; &quot;[[The Lady of the Lake]],&quot; &quot;[[Lalla Rookh]],&quot; [[Author:George Gordon Byron|Byron]]'s &quot;[[The Works of Lord Byron (ed. Coleridge, Prothero)/Poetry/Volume 3/The Bride of Abydos|Bride of Abydos]],&quot; &quot;[[The Corsair (Byron, 1814)|Corsair]],&quot; etc. Although Miss Wheeler began to write at such an early age, she did not publish any of her productions till after her marriage, esteeming, with a modesty natural to a refined and sensitive mind, her own writings too insignificant to interest any one. When she was fifteen years of age, her parents removed to Canandaigua, New York; and two years after, Miss Wheeler was married to Mr. Peirson, of Cazenovia, and removed with her husband into the unsettled wilds of Tioga county, Penn., where she has passed the last twenty years.

Her published poems would fill more than a thousand common octavo pages, and the half that she has written is yet unpublished. Her published prose exceeds her poems, of which she has issued two volumes—&quot;[[Forest Leaves]],&quot; in 1845, and &quot;[[The Forest Minstrel]],&quot; in 1847. Her writings are characterized by ease, grace, delicacy, and beauty, bearing marks of a genuine and sincere love of nature, and are evidently the outpourings of an earnest soul, full of deep and strong sensibilities.
&lt;section end=&quot;Peirson, Lydia Jane&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Penelope&quot; /&gt;{{center|{{larger|PENELOPE,}}}}
Daughter of Icarus, married Ulysses, King of Ithaca, by whom she had Telemachus. During the absence of Ulysses, who went {{SIC|to to|to}} the siege of Troy, and was absent twenty years, several princes, charmed with Penelope's beauty, told her that Ulysses was dead, and urged her to marry one of them. She promised compliance on condition that they would allow her to finish a piece of tapestry she was weaving; but she undid at night what she had woven in the day, and thus eluded their importunity till the return of Ulysses.

Her beauty and conjugal fidelity have won for her the praises of poets, and a warm place in the heart of every pure-minded woman. Her character and example appear most lovely when contrasted with her celebrated contemporary Helen. The character of Telemachus, as drawn by [[Author:François de Salignac de la Mothe-Fénelon|Fenelon]], is such as we should imagine&lt;section end=&quot;Penelope&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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397 


CORTES 


liero were iiiiiny heathens hi Corsica, which long re- 
aineil ils early reputation as a wild and unhospitable 
iland. On the fall of the Western Empire (476) 
'orsica was taken by the Vandals, but was recovered 
y Belisarius, only to be captmed by the Goths 
nder Totila. Kventually, however, it became sub- 
jet to the exarchs of Ravenna, and remained a 
iyzantine possession until the eighth century. At 
he end of the sixth and the beginning of the seventh 
entviry the Roman Church owned large landed es- 
ites in Corsica. By the Donation of Pepin the Short 
754-55) the island came under the civil sovereignty 
f the popes (Liber Pontif., ed. Duchesne, I, 498; 11, 
04, note 35). From the eighth to the eleventh cen- 
ury it was frequently plundered by Saracen pirates, 
'isa then set up a claim of overlordship which was 
oon disputed by Genoa. In 1300 the latter made 
ood its claim to the civil and ecclesiastical influence 
itherto exercised by Pisa, and despite numerous 
evolutions (Sampiero, 1507; Baron Neuhof, 1729; 
'aoli, 17-55) held at least a nominal authority until 
768. In that yi-ar Genoa ceded Corsica to France, 
ince which time the island has remained a French 
rovince. Ajaccio, its chief town, is historically 
imous as the birthplace of Napoleon Bonaparte. 

It has been asserted that Christianity was intro- 
uced into Corsica in Apostolic times. Ughelli, in his 
Italia Sacra&quot;, says of Mariana,' one of the oldest set- 
;ements: &quot;It received the Catholic Faith, and has 
ad its own pastors, ever since the times of the Apos- 
,es&quot;; but this would be difficult to establish. An- 
ther tradition which finds favour with historians is, 
iiat Christianity was spread in the island by con- 
!ssors of the Faith exiled thither (Hergenrother, I, in 
'ranch tr., Paris, 1901, p. 297). The Bollandists say 
le country was entirely Christian in a. d. 439. It 
ave saints and martyrs to the Church; Mgr. de la 
'oata, in his &quot;Recherches&quot; (see bibliography infra), 
ites the names of three Corsican I'Viars Minor of the 
Ibservance, Bernardino Albert i, Franccschino Muc- 
tiieli, Teofilo Designorio, whose virtues had been 
uthoritatiyely declared heroic, and also claims as 
orsicans St. Laurina, virgin and martyr, whose fes- 
val was celebrated as a first-class feast in the ancient 
•iocese of Aleria, St. Parthceus, martyr, St. Vindc- 
lialis and St. Florentius. It is said, also, that St. 
alia was a Corsican. 

We have seen that before and after 600 Corsica 
as in close dependence on the Apostolic See, and 
Iways remained so, (see Cappelletti, Le Chiese 
'Italia, Xyi, 307 sqq.). In 1077 Gregory VII 
amed as his vicarius for Corsica the Bishop of Pisa. 
1 1092 Pope Urban II made its bishops suffragans 
f the Archbishop of Pisa. In 11.33 Innocent II, 
aving granted the pallium to the Archbishop of 
enoa, gave him for suffragans the Corsican Bishops 
f Mariana, Xobbio, and Accia, the Archbi.shop of 
isa retaining as suffragans the sees of Ajaccio, ,\lcria, 
ad Sagona. The Bishoprics of Mariana and Accia 
ere united, .30 January, 1563. About 1.580 the 
lesscd Alexander Sauli (q. v.), known as the 
Apostle of Corsica&quot; awoke the islanders to a more 
»rnest religious life and founded a seminary on the 
lodel of those decreed by the Council of Trent. At 
le time of the French Revolution there were five 
ioceses in Corsica: Mariana and Accia, Nebbio, 
leria, Sagona, and Ajaccio. A decree of 12 July, 
790, of the National .\ssembly at Paris, whose mem- 
ers had voted the Civil Constitution of the Clergy, 
duced these five bishoprics to one, giving to Bastia 
le piistoral care of the whole island. On 8 May, 
r91, the election of the Constitutional bi.shop took 
lace. The choice of the electors fell upon the canon 
^atius Francis Guasco, Vicar-General of Mariana, 
nd Provost of the Cathedral. He, however, made a 
iiblie and solemn rocant.ation 22 December, 1794. 
he Concordat of 1801, between the Holy See and the 


French Republic, which officially restored Catholic 
worship in F'rance, made of Corsica a single diocese 
with Ajaccio as its episcopal city. (See Concouuat 
ofLSOI; Ajaccio.) St. Euphrasius, bishop and mar- 
tyr, is the patron of the diocese. Sts. Julia and 
Devota were declared patronesses of the island by 
decree of the S. C. of Rites, 5 August, 1809, and 14 
March, 1820. The &quot;Directorium Cleri&quot; of the dio- 
ce.se for 1907 states that there are in Corsica one 
bishop and five hundred and ninety-seven priests, 
professors, directors, and chaplains. There are one 
vicar-general, eight titular canons, twenty-nine hon- 
orary canons, five archpriests, thirteen parishes of 
the first class, forty-eight of the second class, and 
three hundred and thirty-three chapels. Parochial 
councils, composeil of members of the laity, assist the 
parish priests, since the suppression of the former 
boards of trustees by the separation of Church and 
State. In Ajaccio there was, until recently, a dioc- 
esan seminary, but the students were dispersed on 
account of the non-acceptance by Pope Pius X of 
the so-called &quot;Law of Separation&quot;. At the time 
it ceased to exist, it had thirty-eight students and 
ten candidates for the priesthood. Every newly 
ordained priest is required to present himself yearly 
for five consecutive years for examination in ecclesi- 
astical sciences before a special committee. The 
degrees in theology may dispense from several or all 
of these examinations, but a young priest is never 
admitted to the parish ministry without having 
passed an examination of this kind. In Corsica 
there are numerous charitable and pious brother- 
hoods, founded in the days of Italian rule. Several 
of these associations assemble in their own chapels. 
The churches are usually of the Italian style of 
architecture and sometimes richly adorned. The 
Society for the Propagation of the Faith is directed 
by a diocesan committee instituted 13 February, 
1859. The St. Vincent de Paul Society has two 
conferences. An Association for free Catholic schools 
is supported by the subscriptions of the faithful, who 
also provide for the needs of Catholic worship. 
Before the suppression of the religious orders there 
were in Corsica one house of the Jesuits, si.x Francis- 
cans, one Dominican, and five Capuchin monasteries, 
and one house of the Oblates of Mary. These, as well 
as the schools of the Christian Brothers and all convent 
schools, have been closed by the Government. There 
are still six convents of nuns. In consequence of the 
new laws of France, the Catholic Church in Corsica, a 
poor country, is confronted with a crisis: the people, 
habituated to look to the State for the support of 
public worship, must now adopt new methods and 
make many sacrifices for the maintenance of religion. 
PiETHO Fklce (or Pktrcs Cyrn(KUb), Chronicle to the Year 
IWO in MuRATORi, Ilnlicartim Ih-rum Scriptores, by della 
Grossa, Ceccaldi, and Monteckjiani, Chronicles, continued 
to 1590 by FiLlPPlNl, and tr. into French by Letteron (Bas- 
tia); (Jaudin, Vouagc en Corse (latter half of the eighteenth 
century): Renucci, Storia di Corsica (Bastia, 1834); Robiquet, 
Recherches . . . sur la Corse (Paris, 1835): Friess, Hisloire des 
Corses (Bastia, 1852); Gregoroviijs, Hisloire des Corses, a 
French tr. of the German work (Stuttgart and Tubingen, 1854). 
by LrcciANA; Giamarchi, Vita politica di Pasquale Paoli 
(Bastia, 1858); Galetti, Histoire illustree de la Corse (Paris, 
1863); BouRDE, En Corse: Corresponilance de 1881 (Paris); 
d'Ornano. La Corse militaire (Paris); Bulletin de la SociM des 
Sciences historiqurs et naturelles de la Corse (periodical, Bastia; 
a magazine of valuable documents for Corsican history); de 
LA FoATA, Recherches et notes diverses sur V histoire de Veglise de 
Corse (Bastia. 1S95); Ortolan, Diplomale et Soldat; Mgr. 
Casanelli d'htria. Evfque d' Ajaccio (Paris, 1900); Cortona, 
Hist.de la Corse (Paris, 1906) ; PoLl, La Cone dans Vanliquili 
et dans le haut moyen Age (Pans, 1907). 

Alexandre Guasco. 

Cortes, DoNoso. See Donoso Cortes. 

Cortes, Hernando, conqueror of Mexico, b. at 
MedeUin in Spain c. 1485; d. at Castilleja de la Cuesta 
near Seville, 2 December, 1547. He was married 
first to Catalina Xuarez, from which marriage there&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9f4268t1xxd1daoqvr1zke4dx9tphsj</sha1>
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      </contributor>
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{{Userboxtop |toptext=Awards for participation}}
{{userbox|id=[[File:Corbusier.jpg|40px]]|info={{c/s}}[[WS:POTM|Proofread of the Month&lt;br /&gt;February 2025]]&lt;br /&gt;[[Index:Towards a New Architecture (Le Corbusier).djvu|Towards a New Architecture]]{{c/e}}}}
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{{userbox|id=[[File:Anne Douglas Sedgwick (1902).png|40px]]|info={{c/s}}[[WS:POTM|Proofread of the Month&lt;br /&gt;March 2025&lt;br /&gt;(second work)]]&lt;br /&gt;[[Index:Dark Hester.djvu|Dark Hester]]{{c/e}}}}
{{userbox|id=[[File:Emily Dickinson writing a poem in her bedroom.jpg|40px]]|info={{c/s}}[[WS:POTM|Proofread of the Month&lt;br /&gt;April 2025]]&lt;br /&gt;Poetry Month{{c/e}}}}
{{userboxbottom}}
&lt;noinclude&gt;Welcome to my user page.

I started doing transcription on FreeBMD.org (which I still do) and FreeCen.org. From there I tried my hand at various projects on Zooniverse (weather records, 1961 census data, but mostly - and most enjoyably - the Newdigate papers as part of the 'Shakespeare's World' project). I then fell into doing stuff on Wikisource.

My approach hasn't been very structured, and I tend to have many things on the go at any given time, which I flit between like a demented butterfly. I occasionally get things wrong but there seem to be a lot of people out there waiting to pounce when I do, so these things get straightened out.

I've also done quite a lot in terms of creating new Author pages and Versions pages, or adding to existing ones. I generally use the Internet Archive site to find links for works and most of the books I've added have been chance encounters while doing so. 

My transcribing activities have ranged across the centuries, but if anything I have a bit of a bias toward stuff from the Restoration period through to the late 18th century.

The lists below only include those works where I've made a significant contribution. I've not kept a record where I've only contributed a few pages. Similarly, I've done a lot of work to fix many of the National Library of Scotland chapbooks but I've not listed these either. 

{{graphic rule}}

The following sections are each in approximately chronological order of completion.

===Complete productions (upload, creation of Index and complete proofread or validation)===
====Non-fiction====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Micrographia]] (1665), by Robert Hooke
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Short View of the Frauds and Abuses committed by Apothecaries]] (1670), by Christopher Merrett
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A practical method as used for the cure of the plague in London in 1665]] (1722), by Charles Scarborough
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Dissertation on Reading the Classics and Forming a Just Style]] (1713), by Henry Felton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay of Dramatic Poesy]] (1896), by John Dryden
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Reformed Librarie-Keeper]] (1906 [1650]), by John Dury
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[News from France]] (1906, 1st English publication), by Gabriel Naudé
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Brief Outline of the History of Libraries]] (1907 [1607]), by Justus Lipsius
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Life of Sir Thomas Bodley written by himself]] (1907), by Thomas Bodley
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Two Tracts on the Founding and Maintaining of Parochial Libraries in Scotland]] (1906), by James Kirkwood
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Duties and Qualifications of a Librarian (1780)]] (1906 [1780]), by Jean Baptiste Cotton des Houssayes
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Love of Books: the Philobiblon of Richard de Bury]] (1903, [1st English edition 1598]), by Richard de Bury 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Recollections of Dante Gabriel Rossetti and his Circle]] (1904), by Henry Treffyn Dunn
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Factory Controversy; a warning against meddling legislation]] (1855), by Harriet Martineau
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fumifugium: or, the Inconveniencie of the Aer and Smoake of London]] (1661), by John Evelyn
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Plan of a Dictionary of the English Language]] (1747), by Samuel Johnson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hints towards the formation of a more comprehensive theory of life]] (1848), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Danger of Mercenary Parliaments]] (1698), by John Toland
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Appeal to England against the Execution of the Condemned Fenians]] (1867), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Notes on Poems and Reviews]] (1866), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Doctrine and Discipline of Divorce]] (1644), by John Milton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Kendal and Windermere Railway: two letters re-printed from the Morning Post]] (1845), by William Wordsworth
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Protest against the Extension of Railways in the Lake District]] (1876), by Robert Somervell
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Manchester and Thirlmere Scheme: an appeal to the public on the facts of the case]] (1876), by Robert Somervell
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Note on Charlotte Brontë]] (1877), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Matthew Arnold (Harrison)|Matthew Arnold]] (1896), by Frederic Harrison
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Note of an English Republican on the Muscovite Crusade]] (1876), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[George Chapman, a critical essay]] (1875), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Study of Shakespeare]] (1880), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Study of Ben Jonson]] (1889), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Three Men in a Boat (1889)|Three Men in a Boat (to Say Nothing of the Dog)]] (1889), by Jerome Klapka Jerome
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Life of Mr. Richard Savage]] (1727), by Charles Beckingham
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Journey to the Western Islands of Scotland]] (1775), by Samuel Johnson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Fleshly School of Poetry and Other Phenomena of the Day]] (1782), by Robert Williams Buchanan
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Woman's Estimate of Walt Whitman ]] (1780), by Anne Gilchrist
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Study of Victor Hugo]] (1886), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[On the Difficulty of Correct Description of Books]] (1902), by Augustus de Morgan
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Conciones Ad Populum. Or, Addresses to the People]] (1795), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Plot Discovered; Or, an Address to the People, Against Ministerial Treason]] (1795), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Moral and Political Lecture delivered at Bristol]] (1795), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Reflections upon Ancient and Modern Learning]] (1694), by William Wotton (''didn't do the upload, but transcribed and transcluded everything'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Description of New England]] (1616), by John Smith (1580-1631)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lectures on Ten British Physicists of the Nineteenth Century]] (1919), by Alexander Macfarlane
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The English Humourists of the Eighteenth Century]] (1853), by William Makepeace Thackeray
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on a Registry, for Titles of Lands]] (1696), by John Asgill
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tennyson (Irving)|Tennyson]] (1873), by Walter Irving
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Letter to Adam Smith LL.D. on the Life, Death, and Philosophy of his friend David Hume Esq.]] (1777), by Anonymous
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essays, Moral and Political]] (1741), by David Hume (1711-1776)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essays and Studies (Swinburne)|Essays and Studies]] (1875), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Enquiry into the Present State of Polite Learning in Europe]] (1759), by Oliver Goldsmith
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The History of the Royal Society of London]] (1734), by Thomas Sprat (''everything apart from a few images''}
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essay on the Principles of Translation (Tytler)|Essay on the Principles of Translation]] (1791), by Alexander Fraser Tytler
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Life of Sir Thomas More]] (1822), by William Roper
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Discovery of New Worlds]] (1688), by Bernard le Bovier de Fontenelle, translated by Aphra Behn

====Plays====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Tragicall History of the Life and Death of Doctor Faustus]] (1628), by Christopher Marlowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The First Part of the True and Honorable Historie of the Life of Sir John Oldcastle]] (1600), by Michael Drayton, Richard Hathwaye, Anthony Munday and Robert Wilson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Lamentable and True Tragedie of M. Arden of Feversham in Kent]] (1592), by Anonymous
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Yorkshire Tragedy]] (1619), by Anonymous
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rehearsal]] (1672), by George Villiers
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Wallenstein]] (1800), by Johann Christoph Friedrich von Schiller, translated by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Cutter of Coleman-street]] (1663), by Abraham Cowley
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tamerlane (Rowe)|Tamerlane. A Tragedy]] (1702), by Nicholas Rowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Works of Ben Jonson/Volume 6/The Sad Shepherd|The Sad Shepherd]] (1819), by Ben Jonson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Ambitious Step-mother]] (1701), by Nicholas Rowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Douglas (Home, 1757)|Douglas: A Tragedy]] (1757), by John Home

====Novels====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[What Katy Did]] (1873), by Sarah Chauncey Woolsey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[What Katy Did at School]] (1876), by Sarah Chauncey Woolsey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Cottagers of Glenburnie]] (1808), by Elizabeth Hamilton (1756-1816)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[In Maremma]] (1882, 3 vols.), by Marie Louise de la Ramée
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The New-Year's Bargain]] (1884), by Sarah Chauncey Woolsey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Political Romance]] (1759), by Laurence Sterne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lieut. Gullivar Jones: His Vacation]] (1905), by Edwin Lester Arnold (''Didn't do the original upload, but did everything else'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Headlong Hall]] (1816), by Thomas Love Peacock
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Were-wolf]] (1896), by Clemence Annie Housman
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Mortover Grange Affair]] (1927), by Joseph Smith Fletcher (''Didn't do the original upload, but did everything else'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Crotchet Castle]] (1831), by Thomas Love Peacock
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Necromancer (Kahlert)|The Necromancer]] (1794), by Karl Friedrich Kahlert (''Didn't do the original upload, but did everything else'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Across the Zodiac: the Story of a Wrecked Record]] (1880), by Percy Greg (''Everything except transcription of one chapter, which I validated'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Trip to the Moon]] (1728), by Murtagh McDermot (''Everything apart from initial upload and 3 pages of proofreading, which I validated'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman]] (1759-1767), by Laurence Sterne (''everything in Volumes 1 to 8, apart from initial upload, about half of Vol. 9'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Tale of Rosamund Gray and Old Blind Margaret]] (1798), by Charles Lamb
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Talleyrand Maxim]] (1920), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Scarhaven Keep]] (1922), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Monk: a Romance]] (1796), by Matthew Gregory Lewis
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Chestermarke Instinct]] (1921), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Bartenstein Case]] (1913), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[On the Stage—and Off]] (1885), by Jerome Klapka Jerome
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rayner-Slade Amalgamation]] (1922), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Black House in Harley Street]] (1928), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Borough Treasurer]] (1921), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Mr. Spivey's Clerk]] (1890), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Dead Men's Money]] (1920), by Joseph Smith Fletcher

====Short stories====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Under the Deodars]] (1890), by Rudyard Kipling
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Quartette]] (1885), by Rudyard Kipling, John Lockwood Kipling, Alice MacDonald Kipling and Alice MacDonald Fleming
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Catalogue of Curious but Prohibited Books]] (1742), by Anonymous (''everything but the initial upload'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Celestial Omnibus and Other Stories]] (1912), by Edward Morgan Forster
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tales from a Rolltop Desk]] (1921), by Christopher Morley (''more or less everything but the initial upload and images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Malvina of Brittany]] (1916), by Jerome Klapka Jerome

====Poetry====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Art of Preserving Health - A Poem in Four Books]] (1744), by John Armstrong
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Rootabaga Pigeons]] (1923), by Carl Sandburgh
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Three Poems upon the death of the late Usurper Oliver Cromwell (1682)]] (1682)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Coopers-Hill]] (1709), by John Denham
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Blenheim, a Poem]] (1705), by John Philips
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Pleasures of Memory (Rogers)|The Pleasures of Memory]] (1873), by Samuel Rogers
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Pennyles Pilgrimage]] (1610), by John Taylor
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Cyder. A poem]] (1708), by John Philips
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Splendid Shilling: An Imitation of Milton]] (1719), by John Philips
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Vanity of Human Wishes]] (1749), by Samuel Johnson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Comus and other poems]] (1906), by John Milton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Trivia, or the Art of Walking the Streets of London to which is added Dr. Johnson's London]] (1809), by John Gay and Samuel Johnson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fears in Solitude (Coleridge)|Fears in Solitude]] (1798), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge (this also migrated ''Frost at Midnight, France: An Ode'' and ''Fears in Solitude'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Village (Crabbe)|The Village]] (1783), by George Crabbe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ode on the Departing Year - Coleridge (1796)|Ode on the Departing Year]] (1796), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sibylline Leaves (Coleridge)|Sibylline Leaves]] (1817), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Ode to the Country Gentlemen of England - Akenside (1758)|An Ode to the Country Gentlemen of England]] (1758), by Mark Akenside
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Ode to the Right Honourable the Earl of Huntingdon (Akenside)|An Ode to the Right Honourable the Earl of Huntingdon]] (1748), by Mark Akenside
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Poem on the Present Assembling of the Parliament, March the 6th, 1678]] (1679), by Edmund Waller
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Epistle to Curio]] (1744), by Mark Akenside
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Pleasures of Imagination (Akenside, 1744)|The Pleasures of Imagination]] (1744), by Mark Akenside
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Odes on Several Subjects (Akenside)|Odes on Several Subjects]] (1745), by Mark Akenside
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Christabel; Kubla Khan; The Pains of Sleep (1816)]] (1816), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on Poetry (Sheffield)|An Essay on Poetry]] (1709), by John Sheffield
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems on Various Subjects (Coleridge)|Poems on Various Subjects]] (1796), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ambarvalia]] (1849), by Arthur Hugh Clough and Thomas Burbidge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Faction Display'd]] (1705), by William Shippen
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[High tide on the coast of Lincolnshire]] (1892), by Jean Ingelow
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Two Poems - E B Browning and R Browning|Two poems]] (1854), by Elizabeth Barrett Browning and Robert Browning
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The City of Dreadful Night and other poems]] (1880), by James Thomson ('B.V.')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Temple of Fame: A Vision]] (1715), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Songs before Sunrise (Swinburne)|Songs before Sunrise]] (1871), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems and Ballads (Swinburne)|Poems and Ballads]] (1866), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Heptalogia (Swinburne)|The Heptalogia]] (1880), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Songs of the Springtides]] (1880), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tristram of Lyonesse and Other Poems]] (1882), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Songs of Two Nations]] (1875), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Tale of Balen]] (1896), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Satyr Against Hypocrites]] (1655), by John Phillips (1631-1706)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Wine (Gay)|Wine: a poem]] (1705), by John Gay
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Dispensary (7th ed)|The Dispensary]] (1714), by Samuel Garth
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lutrin]] (1708), by Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux, translated by John Ozell
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Channel Passage and Other Poems]] (1904), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Midsummer Holiday and Other Poems]] (1884), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Tennyson, 1843)/Volume 1|Poems (volume 1 of 2)]] (1843), by Alfred Tennyson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Tennyson, 1843)/Volume 2|Poems (volume 2 of 2)]] (1843), by Alfred Tennyson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems and Ballads (third series)]] (1889), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hero and Leander, a poem by Musaeus]] (1750), by Musaeus Grammaticus
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hero and Leander (Greene)|Hero and Leander]] (1773), by Musaeus Grammaticus
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Andromeda, and Other Poems]] (1858), by Charles Kinglsey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Fall of Robespierre. An Historic Drama]] (1794), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Campaign: a Poem to His Grace the Duke of Marlborough]] (1710), by Joseph Addison
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Princess; a medley]] (1847), by Alfred Tennyson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Scotish Descriptive Poems]] (1803), by John Leyden
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Amyntas of Tasso]] (1770), by Torquato Tasso, translated by Percival Stockdale
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Art of Dress: a Poem]] (1717), by John Durant Breval
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Petticoat: an Heroi-comical Poem]] (1716), by John Durant Breval
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Key to the Lock. Or, A Treatise Proving, Beyond All Contradiction, the Dangerous Tendency of a Late Poem, Entituled, The Rape of the Lock, to Government and Religion]] (1714), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Shepherd's Week]] (1728), by John Gay
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Horace's Art of Poetry (Roscommon)|Horace's Art of Poetry]] (1680) by Quintus Horatius Flaccus, translated by Wentworth Dillon
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on Translated Verse (Roscommon)|An Essay on Translated Verse]] (1684), by Wentworth Dillon
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Epistle from Mr. Pope to Dr. Arbuthnot]] (1735), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Modern Parnassus; or, The New Art of Poetry]] (1814), by anonymous
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Gondibert: An Heroick Poem]] (1651), by William Davenant
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Posthumous Poems]] (1917), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Niagara. A Poem]] (1822), by Abraham Moore
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Epistle to the Right Honourable Allen, Lord Bathurst]] (1733), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Epistle to the Right Honourable Richard, Earl of Burlington]] (1731), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Epistle to the Right Honourable Richard, Lord Viscount Cobham]] (1733), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Artemisa to Cloe]] (1679), by John Wilmot
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Tennyson, 1833)|Poems]] (1833), by Alfred Tennyson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Southey)/Volume 1|Poems (Volume 1)]] (1799), by Robert Southey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Southey)/Volume 2|Poems (Volume 2)]] (1799), by Robert Southey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lewesdon Hill]] (1788), by William Crowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Shake-speares Sonnets, Never before Imprinted]] (1609), by William Shakespeare
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Goblin Market and Other Poems (1862)|Goblin Market and Other Poems]] (1862), by Christina Georgina Rossetti
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Dramatis Personæ]] (1864), by Robert Browning (''Includes migration of a number of unsourced versions of the poems'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Iliad in a Nutshell: or Homer's Battle of the Frogs and Mice]] (1726), by Homer 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Homer in a Nutshell, or, His War Between the Frogs and the Mice (Parker)|Homer in a Nutshell, or, His War Between the Frogs and the Mice]] (1700), by Homer
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Batrachomyomachia, or, the wonderfull and bloudy Battell betweene Frogs and Mice]] (1634) by Homer
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Temple: Sacred Poems and Private Ejaculations]] (1633), by George Herbert (''included some migration of individual poems already on WS'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Retaliation (Goldsmith)|Retaliation]] (1774), by Oliver Goldsmith
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Dunciad]] (1743), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Farm and Fruit of Old|The Farm and Fruit of Old. A translation in verse of the First and Second Georgics of Virgil]] (1862), by Richard Doddridge Blackmore
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pastorals (Philips)|Pastorals]] (1710), by Ambrose Philips
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rosciad]] (1761), by Charles Churchill
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems, Chiefly Lyrical]] (1830), by Alfred Tennyson (''everything except initial upload, included some migration of individual poems already on WS'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Picture Show (Sassoon)|Picture Show]] (1919), by Siegfried Sassoon (''included some migration of individual poems already on WS'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Of the Characters of Women: An Epistle to a Lady]] (1735), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Musæus: a Monody to the Memory of Mr. Pope, in Imitation of Milton's Lycidas]] (1747), by William Mason
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[One Thousand Seven Hundred and Thirty Eight. A Dialogue Something Like Horace]] (1738), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[One Thousand Seven Hundred and Thirty Eight. Dialogue II.]] (1738), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Memorials of a Tour on the Continent, 1820]] (1822), by William Wordsworth
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Joan of Arc (Southey)|Joan of Arc]] (1796), by Robert Southey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ode Occasion'd by the Death of Mr. Thomson]] (1749), by William Collins
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Chace]] (1735), by William Somervile
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Madagascar; with Other Poems]] (1638), by William Davenant (''everything apart from about half of the images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Elegy Wrote in a Country Church Yard (1751)|An Elegy Wrote in a Country Church Yard]] (1751), by Thomas Gray
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Earth Turns South]] (1919), by Clement Richardson Wood
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Giaour]] (1813), by George Gordon Byron
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Batrachomuomachia: or, the Battle of the Frogs and Mice]] (1736), by Henry Price
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Hind and the Panther]] (1687), by John Dryden
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Story of Rimini]] (1816), by James Henry Leigh Hunt
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Universe (Baker)|The Universe]] (1727), by Henry Baker (1698-1774)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Belfry of Bruges and Other Poems]] (1846), by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Moonlight, a Poem: with Several Copies of Verses]] (1814), by Edward Hovell-Thurlow
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Rainbows (Custance)|Rainbows]] (1902), by Olive Custance
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Works of Abraham Cowley/Volume 1|The Works of Abraham Cowley, Volume 1]] (1806), by Abraham Cowley
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Blue Bird (Custance)|The Blue Bird]] (1905), by Olive Custance
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Homer's Battle of the Frogs and Mice]] (1717), translated by Thomas Parnell
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Lewis)|Poems]] (1812), by Matthew Gregory Lewis
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ferishtah's Fancies]] (1884), by Robert Browning
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Poetical Works of Elijah Fenton]] (1779), by Elijah Fenton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ballads of Battle]] (1916), by Joseph Lee
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems on Several Occasions (Broome)|Poems on Several Occasions]] (1739), by William Broome
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems, Sacred and Moral]] (1803), by Thomas Gisborne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Work-a-day Warriors]] (1917), by Joseph Lee 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems, in Two Volumes (Wordsworth, 1807)|Poems, in Two Volumes]] (1807), by William Wordsworth 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Men and Women (Browning)|Men and Women]] (1855), by Robert Browning (''Also migrated multiple unsourced works'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Faerie Queene (1590/1596)/Books 1 to 3 (1590)|The Faerie Queene, Books I to III]] (1590), by Edmund Spenser
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pollio (Mickle, 1766)|Pollio: An Elegiac Ode]] (1766), by William Julius Mickle
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Tears of Music (Langhorne, 1760)|The Tears of Music]] (1760), by John Langhorne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Odes (Mason, 1756)|Odes]] (1756), by William Mason (1724-1797)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Traveller (Goldsmith, 1765)|The Traveller, or, A Prospect of Society]] (1765), by Oliver Goldsmith
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Visions of Fancy (Langhorne, 1762)|The Visions of Fancy]] (1762), by John Langhorne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Elegies (Mason, 1763)|Elegies]] (1763), by William Mason (1724-1797)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Edwin and Emma (Mallet, 1760)|Edwin and Emma]] (1760), by David Mallet
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ballads (Masefield, 1903)|Ballads]] (1903), by John Masefield (''also migrated a number of unsourced works'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Progress of Poetry (Madan, 1783)|The Progress of Poetry]] (1783), by Judith Madan
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Brittish Princes: An Heroick Poem]] (1669), by Edward Howard (1624-1700)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems of Nature (Whittier)|Poems of Nature]] (1886), by John Greenleaf Whittier
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Salmagundi (Huddesford, 1791)|Salmagundi]] (1791), by George Huddesford
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Maid's Tragedy Altered]] (1690), by Edmund Waller
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]] (1762), by William Falconer (1732-1769)}}
{{graphic rule}}

===Migrations===
====Non fiction====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Cousins's Short Biographical Dictionary of English Literature.djvu]] - ''in progress''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essays (Cowley)|Essays]] (1886) by Abraham Cowley
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Letter from a Person of Quality to His Friend in the Country]] (1675) by Anthony Ashley Cooper
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Areopagitica (1644)|Areopagitica]] (1644) by John Milton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Confessions of an English Opium-Eater]] (1823) by Thomas De Quincey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Age of Shakespeare]] (1908) by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Vindication of the Rights of Men]] (1790) by Mary Wollstonecraft
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Present State of Wit (1711)|The Present State of Wit, in a Letter to a Friend in the Country]] (1711), by John Gay
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Necessity of Atheism (Shelley)|The Necessity of Atheism]] (1821) by Percy Bysshe Shelley
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Virginibus Puerisque and Other Papers]] (1881) by Robert Louis Stevenson (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Philosophical Essays Concerning Human Understanding]] (1748) by David Hume (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Vindication of Natural Society]] (1756) by Edmund Burke (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Enquiry Concerning the Principles of Morals]] (1751) by David Hume (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Four Dissertations]] (1757) by David Hume (''migration of two works, transcription of the other two'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Life of David Hume, Esq.]] (1777), by David Hume (''complete migration plus transcription of associated front matter'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Historic Doubts Relative to Napoleon Buonaparte]] (1874) by Richard Whately (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Discourse on the Method]] (1853) by René Descartes (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[On the Magnet]] (1900) by William Gilbert (''complete migration, plus reworked all of the images on Commons'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[George Bernard Shaw]] (1909) by Gilbert Keith Chesterton (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Utopia of Usurers and Other Essays]] (1917), by Gilbert Keith Chesterton (''complete migration'')

====Plays====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Cato, a Tragedy]] (1713), by Joseph Addison
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[All for Love (Dryden)|All for Love: or, The World well Lost]] (1678) by John Dryden
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Atalanta in Calydon]] (1865) by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Samson Agonistes]] (1661), by John Milton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Jew of Malta]] (1633), by Christopher Marlowe ''(part migration, part transcription)''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Tragedy of the Dutchesse of Malfy]] (1623), by John Webster
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Massacre at Paris]] (1600?), by Christopher Marlowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Edward II|The Troublesome Raigne and Lamentable Death of Edward the Second, King of England]] (1622), by Christopher Marlowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Edward III (play)|The Raigne of King Edward the Third]] (1596), by William Shakespeare and Thomas Kyd
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Venice Preserv'd]] (1682), by Thomas Otway
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Two Angry Women of Abingdon]] (1599), by Henry Porter
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pericles, Prince of Tyre (1609)|Pericles, Prince of Tyre]] (1609), by William Shakespeare
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Fair Penitent]] (1703), by Nicholas Rowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Spanish Tragedie]] (1602), by Thomas Kyd

====Novels====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The History of Rasselas, Prince of Abyssinia]] (1759), by Samuel Johnson ''(2 volumes)''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[What Katy Did Next]] (1886) by Sarah Chauncey Woolsey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fanny Hill: Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure]] (1749), by John Cleland ''(2 volumes)''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Eugene Aram]] (1832), by Edward George Earle Lytton Bulwer ''(3 volumes)''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Little Men]] (1871) by Louisa May Alcott
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Little Women]] (1868) by Louisa May Alcott
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Wrong Box]] (1889) by Robert Louis Stevenson and Lloyd Osbourne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Ebb-Tide]] (1894) by Robert Louis Stevenson and Lloyd Osbourne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Weir of Hermiston]] (1896) by Robert Louis Stevenson (''Almost all of the migration, plus transcription of 'editorial comment' section'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sister Carrie]] (1900) by Theodore Dreiser (''Almost all of the migration, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The House of the Seven Gables]] (1851) by Nathaniel Hawthorne (''Complete migration, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Blithedale Romance]] (1852) by Nathaniel Hawthorne (''Contributed to migration and associated transclusion, plus minor validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Catriona]] (1893) by Robert Lewis Stevenson (''Complete migration, plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tarzan the Terrible]] (1921) by Edgar Rice Burroughs (''Migrated a few chapters, small amount of transcription/validation, plus updated transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Room with a View]] (1908) by Edward Morgan Forster (''Migrated whole work, plus updated transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Way of All Flesh]] (1903) by Samuel Butler (1835-1902) (''Migrated virtually the whole work.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Nightmare Abbey]] (1818) by Thomas Love Peacock (''Migrated virtually the whole work (transcribed, proofread or validated every page, plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Inland Voyage]] (1878) by Robert Louis Stevenson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Middle of Things]] (1922) by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Copper Box]] (1923) by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner]] (1824) by James Hogg 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ravensdene Court]] (1922) by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Markenmore Mystery]] (1923) by Joseph Smith Fletcher

====Short stories====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Story of the Gadsbys]] (1888), by Rudyard Kipling (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Life's Handicap]] (1891), by Rudyard Kipling (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Phantom Rickshaw and Other Tales]] (1890), by Rudyard Kipling (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[In Black and White]] (1891), by Rudyard Kipling (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Soldiers Three]] (1890), by Rudyard Kipling
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Diary of a Pilgrimage]] (1891), by Jerome Klapka Jerome (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tales from Shakespeare, illus. Rackham (1908)|Tales from Shakespeare]] (1908), by Charles Lamb and Mary Lamb
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Literary Lapses]] (1919), by Stephen Butler Leacock
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Idle Thoughts of an Idle Fellow]] (1886), by Jerome Klapka Jerome

====Poetry====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Paradise Regained|Paradise Regain'd]] (1661), by John Milton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rime of the Ancient Mariner (1817)|The Rime of the Ancient Mariner]] (1817) by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Bothie of Toper-na-fuosich]] (1848) by Arthur Hugh Clough
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on Criticism]] (1711) by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hero and Leander (Marlowe)|Hero and Leander]] (1821) by Christopher Marlowe and George Chapman (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on Man]] (1751) by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Seasons (Thomson)|The Seasons]] (1791) by James Thomson (1700-1748) (''migration of poetry, transcription of associated material'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Castle of Indolence]] (1748) by James Thomson (1700-1748) 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam (tr. Fitzgerald, 1st edition)|The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam]] (1859) by Edward FitzGerald 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[In Memoriam (Tennyson)|In Memoriam]] (1850) by Alfred Tennyson 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Absalom and Achitophel]] (1682) by John Dryden
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Resignation (Young)|Resignation]] (1762) by Edward Young
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pastorals (Pope)|Pastorals]] (1793) by Alexander Pope (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Fable for Critics]] (1848) by James Russell Lowell (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Windsor Forest (4th edition)|Windsor-Forest]] (1720) by Alexander Pope (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Lay of the Last Minstrel]] (1805) by Walter Scott (''full migration plus transcription of notes'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Annus Mirabilis: The Year of Wonders]] (1688) by John Dryden (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Deserted Village]] (1770) by Oliver Goldsmith (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fungi from Yuggoth]] (1930) by Howard Phillips Lovecraft (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Manfred, a dramatic poem]] (1817) by George Gordon Byron (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pacchiarotto|Pacchiarotto and How He Worked in Distemper: with Other Poems]] (1876) by Robert Browning (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hellas]] (1821) by Percy Bysshe Shelley (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Orion]] (1843) by Richard Henry Horne (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Shepheardes Calender]] (1579) by Edmund Spenser (''part migration, part transcription, plus images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ebony and Crystal]] (1922) by Clark Ashton Smith (''Mostly migration, some limited transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ultima Thule]] (1880) by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fables for the Frivolous]] (1889) by Guy Wetmore Carryl (''limited transcription, most of the validation plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems on Slavery]] (1842) by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (''contents had already been migrated, created all required pages or validated existing ones'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poetical Essay on the Existing State of Things]] (1811) by Percy Bysshe Shelley (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Le Lutrin]] (1682) by Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux, translated by N. O. (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Lady of the Lake]] (1810) by Walter Scott (''migration of poem, transcription of notes'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Feminiad (Duncombe, 1754, 1st ed.)|The Feminiad: A Poem]] (1754) by John Duncombe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lalla Rookh]] (1817) by Thomas Moore (1779-1852) (''part migration, plus lots of transcription/proofreading, transcription of notes'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Panegyrick to my Lord Protector (Waller, 1655)|A Panegyrick to my Lord Protector]] (1655) by Edmund Waller (''full migration'')
{{graphic rule}}

===Significant contributions===
====Non fiction====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Lives of the Poets Laureate]] (1853)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Great Neapolitan Earthquake of 1857]], volume 2
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Transactions of the Geological Society, 1st series, vol. 2]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Frederic Rowton on Landon]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[British Statutes (Application to India) Repeal Act 1960]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Encyclopædia Britannica, Ninth Edition/Volume XXIII]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pauperization: cause and cure]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Friendship's Offering 1828.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Natural History, Reptiles.djvu]]
* &lt;span class=&quot;quality2&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:The sexual life of savages in north-western Melanesia.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Blackwood's Magazine volume 001.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Diary of the times of Charles II Vol. I.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Philosophical Transactions - Volume 001.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aircraft Accident Report: National Airlines Flight 2511]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aviation Accident Report: 1945 Page Airways Accident]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, American Airlines Training Flight 514.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Mid-Air Collision on 30 September 1959.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Eastern Air Lines Flight 14.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Zantop Logair Flight 60-16.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, AAXICO Logair Flight 1814.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Standard Airways Flight 388C.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:The Lives of the Most Eminent English Poets, Volume 2.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:History of the Royal Society.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Eastern Air Lines Flight 5.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Delta Air Lines Flight 8715.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Mid-Air Collision on 7 November 1959.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:The Works of William Harvey (part 1 of 2).djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Edinburgh Review Volume 59.djvu]], papers by Charles Babbage
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:New observations on inoculation - Angelo Gatti.djvu]] (1762), by Angelo Gatti
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, National Airlines Flight 967.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Aircraft Accident Report, AAXICO LOGAIR Trip 7002.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds Vol 1.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:The Discovery of a World in the Moone, 1638.djvu]] (1638), by John Wilkins
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, West Coast Airlines Flight 703.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Treatise upon the Small-Pox]] (1723), by Richard Blackmore
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Elementary Treatise on Optics]] (1823), by Henry Coddington
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[William Blake in his relation to Dante Gabriel Rossetti]] (1911), by Johanna Christina Emerentia Bassalik-de Vries
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Samuel Johnson (1911).djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[In the High Heavens]] (1910), by Robert Stawell Ball
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Once a Week Jun to Dec 1864.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Dissertation on the Puerperal Fever]] (1789), by Pierre de Sales Laterrière
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Evisceration]] (1889), by Arthur Edward Prince
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Omniana/Volume 1|Omniana, or Horæ Otiosiores: Volume 1]] (1812), by Robert Southey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Hittites]] (1890), by Archibald Henry Sayce
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essays in Modernity: Criticisms and Dialogues]] (1899), by Francis William Lauderdale Adams
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Slavery in the United States]] (1823), by Charles Ball {''transcription, validation and transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Appeal to the Wealthy of the Land]] (1833), by Mathew Carey (''transcription, proofreading and transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Parochial History of Cornwall/Volume 1|The Parochial History of Cornwall - Volume 1]] (1838), by Davies Gilbert (''partial prooreading &amp; complete transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Omniana/Volume 2|Omniana, or Horæ Otiosiores: Volume II]] (1812), by Robert Southey {''partial transcription, partial proofreading &amp; complete transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Gallery of Children]] (1925), by Alan Alexander Milne ''(some transcription, some proofreading, some validation, plus most of the transclusion) ''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essays on the Principles of Human Action]] (1835), by William Hazlitt (1778-1830) (''didn't upload the book but proofread all of it, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Arthur Machen: A Novelist of Ecstasy and Sin]] (1918), by Vincent Starett (''Validated all of the work.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Why I Am an Infidel]] (1926), by Luther Burbank (''Most of proofreading and complete transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Biographical Dictionary of the Celebrated Women of Every Age and Country]] (1804), by Mary Matilda Betham (''Various proofreading, validation and transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Sidereal Messenger of Galileo Galilei]] (1880), by Galileo Galilei (''Created and proofread all but two content pages, plus illustrations and transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Divers voyages touching the discouerie of America]] (1582), by Richard Hakluyt (''Various proofreading, validation and transclusion, plus uploaded images.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[On the Characters, Properties, and Uses of Eucalyptus Globulus and Other Species of Eucalyptus]] (1874), by Robert Bentley (''Most of the proofreading plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Physical and Topographical Sketch of the Mississippi Territory, Lower Louisiana, and a Part of West Florida]] (1803), by Garrett Elliott Pendergrast (''Much of the proofreading plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hesiod, and Theognis]] (1873), by James Davies (''some transcription, some validation, some transclusion plus complete review of work to make poetry formatting consistent.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The clock problem (clock paradox) in relativity]] (1959), by Mildred Catherine Benton (''some transcription, some validation, plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sketch of Connecticut, Forty Years Since]] (1824), by Lydia Sigourney (''much transcription, some validation, plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Thoughts on the causes and consequences of the present high price of provisions]] (1767), by Soame Jenyns (''validated all, plus corrected transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An answer to a pamphlet, intitled, &quot;Thoughts on the causes and consequences of the present high price of provisions&quot; in a letter, addressed to the supposed author of that pamphlet]] (1768), by Anonymous (''validated all, plus corrected transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Heart of Monadnock]] (1922), by Elizabeth Weston Timlow (''most of proofread plus upload of images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Reflections on the Decline of Science in England]] (1830), by Charles Babbage (''Did pretty much everything except initial upload'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Treatise concerning the Use and Abuse of the Marriage Bed]] (1727), by Daniel Defoe (''Did pretty much everything except initial upload'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Aran Islands]] (1912), by John Millington Synge (''A lot of proofreading and validation'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Soul of London]] (1905), by Ford Madox Heufer (''Transcribed everything but the front matter'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Alexander Pope (Stephen)|Alexander Pope]] (1880), by Leslie Stephen (''Transcribed almost everything but the front matter and a few other pages'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Art of Kissing]] (1926), by Clement Wood (''Some transcription, proofreading and validation. Sourcing and linking of quotes, whole of transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Discourse Concerning the Natation of Bodies]] (1663), by Galileo Galilei (''Proofreading and validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Harveian Oration 1867]] (1867), by James Alderson (''Full validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Music of the Spheres]] (1926), by Florence Armstrong Grondal (''Lots of transcription and transclusion, plus improved some of the images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Harveian Oration: Delivered Before the Royal College of Physicians of London on June 21st, 1905]] (1905), by Frederick Thomas Roberts (''Significant proofreading / validation'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Time and Tide by Weare and Tyne]] (1886), by John Ruskin (''Some validation, most of transclusion, added links'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A History of Cawthorne]] (1882), by Charles Tiplady Pratt (''Lots of proofreading, completion of migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Harveian Oration: Delivered Before the Royal College of Physicians on June 21, 1904]] (1904), by Richard Caton (''Lots of proofreading/validation, added images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Harveian oration 1873]] (1873), by George Rolleston (''Lots of proofreading/validation'')

====Plays====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Playboy of the Western World]] (1912), by Edmund John Millington Synge (''lots of transcription and transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Shakespeare - First Folio facsimile (1910)]] (1623), by William Shakespeare (''lots of transcription and transclusion'')

====Novels====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Wuthering Heights (1st edition)/Volume 1]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Wuthering Heights (1st edition)/Volume 2]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sylvie and Bruno]], by Lewis Carroll
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sylvie and Bruno Concluded]], by Lewis Carroll
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Zanoni]], Volume 1
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tarzan and the Jewels of Opar]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Valperga (1823) Shelley Vol 1.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Valperga (1823) Shelley Vol 2.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Leaf in the Storm; A Dog of Flanders and Other Stories]] (1872), by 'Ouida' (Marie Louise de la Ramée)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[In a Winter City]] (1876), by 'Ouida' (Marie Louise de la Ramée) 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Mummy (Loudon)/Volume 2]] (1827), by Jane Loudon
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Orange-Yellow Diamond]] (1922), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Semi-attached Couple]] (1890), by [[Author:Emily Eden|Emily Eden]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Edgar Huntly, or The Sleep Walker]] (1831), by Charles Brockden Brown
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Jane Eyre (1st edition)]] (1847), by Charlotte Brontë (''mostly transcription of volume 3'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sylvester Sound the Somnambulist]] (1844), by Henry Cockton (''ongoing prooreading/transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Baron Trump's Marvellous Underground Journey]] (1893), by Ingersoll Lockwood {''transclusion and corrections'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Semi-detached House]] (1859), by Emily Eden (''transcription and proofreading'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Floating City (1904)]] (1904), by Jules Verne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Manhattan Transfer]] (1925), by John Dos Passos (''touched every page (transcription, proofreading, validation), plus much of the transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Railway Children]] (1906), by Edith Nesbit (''Some proofreading and much validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Three Speeds Forward]] (1906), by Lloyd Osbourne (''Much proofreading, some validation and complete transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Kidnapped - Stevenson (1887)|Kidnapped]] (1887), by Robert Louis Stevenson (''Pretty much everything except the initial upload. Illustrations were already on Commons.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Our Nig; or Sketches from the Life of a Free Black]] (1859) by Harriet E. Wilson (''part migration, part transcription.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Porgy]] (1925) by DuBose Heyward (''everything except initial upload.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Incredulity of Father Brown]] (1926) by Gilbert Keith Chesterton (''Most transcription, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Reign of George VI]] (1763) by Samuel Madden (''most of the proofread, plus transclusion and images.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lolly Willowes]] (1926) by Sylvia Townsend Warner (''most of the proofread, plus transclusion and images.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lucian's True History]] (1894) by Lucian of Samosata (''some transcription and transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Wanderer (Burney)|The Wanderer]] (1814) by Fanny Burney (''most of the transcription and transclusion of all five volumes.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Moods]] (1864) by Louisa May Alcott (''lots of transcription plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The House at Pooh Corner (1961)|The House at Pooh Corner]] (1961) by Alan Alexander Milne (''lots of transcription plus most of the images.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Chambermaid's Diary]] (1900) by Octave Mirbeau (''a chunk of proofreading, and a chunk of validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Zuleika Dobson]] (1911) by Max Beerbohm (''lots of proofreading.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Napoleon of Notting Hill]] (1904) by Gilbert Keith Chesterton (''a chunk of proofreading, some validation, some transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Viaduct Murder]] (1926) by Ronald Arbuthnott Knox (''almost everything apart from initial upload and a few pages.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Old Ninety-Nine's Cave]] (1909), by Elizabeth H. Gray (''fixed the scan, lots of proofreading, uploaded images.'')

====Short stories====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Collected Works of Ambrose Bierce/Volume 2]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:The Yellow Book - 13.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 5|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 5]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 6|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 6]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Yellow Book/Volume 1|The Yellow Book: Volume 1]] (1894), edited by Henry Harland
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 3|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 3]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Rootabaga Stories.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 2|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 2]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Stories told to a child.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 1|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 1]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Shen of the Sea]] (1925), by Arthur Bowie Chrisman (''some proofreading, some validation, some transclusion, plus upload of illustrations.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fire!!]] (1926), edited by Wallace Henry Thurman (''some proofreading, some validation, all of transclusion, plus upload of all graphics and illustrations.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 4|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 4]] (''large proportion of transcription and transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Camperdown|Camperdown, or, News from our neighbourhood]] (1836), by Mary Griffith (''most of proofread, limited validation and all of transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Yellow Book/Volume 3|The Yellow Book: Volume 3]] (1894), edited by Henry Harland

====Poetry====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poetical Works of John Oldham]] (1854), edited by Robert Bell
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Leaves of Grass (1860)]] (1860), by Walt Whitman
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Poetical Works of Thomas Parnell]] (1833)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on Virgil's Æneid]] (1728), by Christopher Pitt
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems upon Several Occasions]] (1726), by George Granville
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Ascent of Man]] (1889), by Mathilde Blind
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Odes of Horace, Book 5]] (1921), by [[Author:Quintus Horatius Flaccus|Horace]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Odes and Carmen Saeculare]] (1892), by [[Author:Quintus Horatius Flaccus|Horace]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Prometheus Unbound; a lyrical drama in four acts with other poems]] (1820), by Percy Bysshe Shelley {''transcription and proofreading'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Prometheus Bound, and other poems]] (1851), by Elizabeth Barrett Browning (''most of Casa Guidi Windows'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[When We Were Very Young]] (1925), by Alan Alexander Milne (''some proofreading , some validation, most of the transclusion, plus associated editing to transclude correctly'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hebrew Melodies (Byron, 1815)|Hebrew Melodies]] (1815), by George Gordon Byron (''much proofreading, some validation, most of the transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Demeter and other poems]] (1889), by Alfred Tennyson (''most of the transcription and proofreading, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Enoch Arden, etc]] (1864), by Alfred Tennyson (''most of the transcription and proofreading, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Amyntas, A Tale of the Woods]] (1820), by Torquato Tasso (''fixed the scan, most of the transcription and proofreading, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pastorals Epistles Odes (1748)|Pastorals, epistles, odes, and other original poems, with translations from Pindar, Anacreon, and Sappho]] (1748), by Ambrose Philips (''fixed the scan (50%+ missing), lots of the transcription and proofreading, plus graphic items and improved transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Collection of Poems]] (1709), by William Shakespeare (''Lots of proofreading and validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Grumbling Hive]] (1705), by Bernard Mandeville (''reformatting of poem, plus validation'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Color (Cullen)|Color]] (1925), by Countee Cullen (''Most of transcription and proofreading, plus all of the transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Copper Sun (Cullen)|Copper Sun]] (1927), by Countee Cullen (''some transcription, some validation plus all of the transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Triumphs of Temper (11th ed.)|The Triumphs of Temper]] (1801), by William Hayley (''almost everything except the initial upload'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Spring Harvest]] (1916), by Geoffrey Brache Smith (''some proofreading, more validation plus all of the transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lyrical Ballads (1798)|Lyrical Ballads]] (1798), by William Wordsworth and Samuel Taylor Coleridge (''transcribed several poems'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Rosemary and Pansies]] (1904), by Bertram Dobell (''various migrations, transcription, extensive transclusion, some proofreading'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rape of the Lock]] (1724), by Alexander Pope (''improved formatting, much validation'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems on Slavery]] (1842), by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (''did either proofreading or validation of whole work'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hudibras]] (1859), by Samuel Butler (''lots of proofreading, some validation, a proportion of the images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Opals (Custance)|Opals]] (1897), by Olive Custance (''lots of proofreading, some validation'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Shropshire Lad]] (1906), by Alfred Edward Housman (''lots of proofreading and transclusion, some validation'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Inn of Dreams]] (1911), by Olive Custance (''lots of proofreading, some validation'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Artemis to Actæon (1909)|Artemis to Actæon]] (1909), by Edith Wharton (''a lot of proofreading, some validation, finalised transclusion'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Ballad of St. Barbara and other verses]] (1922), by Gilbert Keith Chesterton (''some transcription, some proofreading, some validation, finalised transclusion'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Destroyers and Other Verses]] (1919), by Henry Head (''some transcription, some proofreading, some validation, finalised transclusion'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Parerga]] (1843), by Edward Shepherd Creasy (''lots of proofreading and transclusion, some validation'') 
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{{Userboxtop |toptext=Awards for participation}}
{{userbox|id=[[File:Corbusier.jpg|40px]]|info={{c/s}}[[WS:POTM|Proofread of the Month&lt;br /&gt;February 2025]]&lt;br /&gt;[[Index:Towards a New Architecture (Le Corbusier).djvu|Towards a New Architecture]]{{c/e}}}}
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{{userbox|id=[[File:Emily Dickinson writing a poem in her bedroom.jpg|40px]]|info={{c/s}}[[WS:POTM|Proofread of the Month&lt;br /&gt;April 2025]]&lt;br /&gt;Poetry Month{{c/e}}}}
{{userboxbottom}}
&lt;noinclude&gt;Welcome to my user page.

I started doing transcription on FreeBMD.org (which I still do) and FreeCen.org. From there I tried my hand at various projects on Zooniverse (weather records, 1961 census data, but mostly - and most enjoyably - the Newdigate papers as part of the 'Shakespeare's World' project). I then fell into doing stuff on Wikisource.

My approach hasn't been very structured, and I tend to have many things on the go at any given time, which I flit between like a demented butterfly. I occasionally get things wrong but there seem to be a lot of people out there waiting to pounce when I do, so these things get straightened out.

I've also done quite a lot in terms of creating new Author pages and Versions pages, or adding to existing ones. I generally use the Internet Archive site to find links for works and most of the books I've added have been chance encounters while doing so. 

My transcribing activities have ranged across the centuries, but if anything I have a bit of a bias toward stuff from the Restoration period through to the late 18th century.

The lists below only include those works where I've made a significant contribution. I've not kept a record where I've only contributed a few pages. Similarly, I've done a lot of work to fix many of the National Library of Scotland chapbooks but I've not listed these either. 

{{graphic rule}}

The following sections are each in approximately chronological order of completion.

===Complete productions (upload, creation of Index and complete proofread or validation)===
====Non-fiction====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Micrographia]] (1665), by Robert Hooke
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Short View of the Frauds and Abuses committed by Apothecaries]] (1670), by Christopher Merrett
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A practical method as used for the cure of the plague in London in 1665]] (1722), by Charles Scarborough
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Dissertation on Reading the Classics and Forming a Just Style]] (1713), by Henry Felton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay of Dramatic Poesy]] (1896), by John Dryden
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Reformed Librarie-Keeper]] (1906 [1650]), by John Dury
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[News from France]] (1906, 1st English publication), by Gabriel Naudé
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Brief Outline of the History of Libraries]] (1907 [1607]), by Justus Lipsius
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Life of Sir Thomas Bodley written by himself]] (1907), by Thomas Bodley
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Two Tracts on the Founding and Maintaining of Parochial Libraries in Scotland]] (1906), by James Kirkwood
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Duties and Qualifications of a Librarian (1780)]] (1906 [1780]), by Jean Baptiste Cotton des Houssayes
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Love of Books: the Philobiblon of Richard de Bury]] (1903, [1st English edition 1598]), by Richard de Bury 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Recollections of Dante Gabriel Rossetti and his Circle]] (1904), by Henry Treffyn Dunn
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Factory Controversy; a warning against meddling legislation]] (1855), by Harriet Martineau
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fumifugium: or, the Inconveniencie of the Aer and Smoake of London]] (1661), by John Evelyn
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Plan of a Dictionary of the English Language]] (1747), by Samuel Johnson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hints towards the formation of a more comprehensive theory of life]] (1848), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Danger of Mercenary Parliaments]] (1698), by John Toland
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Appeal to England against the Execution of the Condemned Fenians]] (1867), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Notes on Poems and Reviews]] (1866), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Doctrine and Discipline of Divorce]] (1644), by John Milton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Kendal and Windermere Railway: two letters re-printed from the Morning Post]] (1845), by William Wordsworth
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Protest against the Extension of Railways in the Lake District]] (1876), by Robert Somervell
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Manchester and Thirlmere Scheme: an appeal to the public on the facts of the case]] (1876), by Robert Somervell
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Note on Charlotte Brontë]] (1877), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Matthew Arnold (Harrison)|Matthew Arnold]] (1896), by Frederic Harrison
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Note of an English Republican on the Muscovite Crusade]] (1876), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[George Chapman, a critical essay]] (1875), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Study of Shakespeare]] (1880), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Study of Ben Jonson]] (1889), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Three Men in a Boat (1889)|Three Men in a Boat (to Say Nothing of the Dog)]] (1889), by Jerome Klapka Jerome
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Life of Mr. Richard Savage]] (1727), by Charles Beckingham
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Journey to the Western Islands of Scotland]] (1775), by Samuel Johnson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Fleshly School of Poetry and Other Phenomena of the Day]] (1782), by Robert Williams Buchanan
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Woman's Estimate of Walt Whitman ]] (1780), by Anne Gilchrist
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Study of Victor Hugo]] (1886), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[On the Difficulty of Correct Description of Books]] (1902), by Augustus de Morgan
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Conciones Ad Populum. Or, Addresses to the People]] (1795), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Plot Discovered; Or, an Address to the People, Against Ministerial Treason]] (1795), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Moral and Political Lecture delivered at Bristol]] (1795), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Reflections upon Ancient and Modern Learning]] (1694), by William Wotton (''didn't do the upload, but transcribed and transcluded everything'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Description of New England]] (1616), by John Smith (1580-1631)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lectures on Ten British Physicists of the Nineteenth Century]] (1919), by Alexander Macfarlane
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The English Humourists of the Eighteenth Century]] (1853), by William Makepeace Thackeray
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on a Registry, for Titles of Lands]] (1696), by John Asgill
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tennyson (Irving)|Tennyson]] (1873), by Walter Irving
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Letter to Adam Smith LL.D. on the Life, Death, and Philosophy of his friend David Hume Esq.]] (1777), by Anonymous
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essays, Moral and Political]] (1741), by David Hume (1711-1776)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essays and Studies (Swinburne)|Essays and Studies]] (1875), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Enquiry into the Present State of Polite Learning in Europe]] (1759), by Oliver Goldsmith
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The History of the Royal Society of London]] (1734), by Thomas Sprat (''everything apart from a few images''}
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essay on the Principles of Translation (Tytler)|Essay on the Principles of Translation]] (1791), by Alexander Fraser Tytler
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Life of Sir Thomas More]] (1822), by William Roper
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Discovery of New Worlds]] (1688), by Bernard le Bovier de Fontenelle, translated by Aphra Behn

====Plays====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Tragicall History of the Life and Death of Doctor Faustus]] (1628), by Christopher Marlowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The First Part of the True and Honorable Historie of the Life of Sir John Oldcastle]] (1600), by Michael Drayton, Richard Hathwaye, Anthony Munday and Robert Wilson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Lamentable and True Tragedie of M. Arden of Feversham in Kent]] (1592), by Anonymous
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Yorkshire Tragedy]] (1619), by Anonymous
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rehearsal]] (1672), by George Villiers
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Wallenstein]] (1800), by Johann Christoph Friedrich von Schiller, translated by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Cutter of Coleman-street]] (1663), by Abraham Cowley
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tamerlane (Rowe)|Tamerlane. A Tragedy]] (1702), by Nicholas Rowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Works of Ben Jonson/Volume 6/The Sad Shepherd|The Sad Shepherd]] (1819), by Ben Jonson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Ambitious Step-mother]] (1701), by Nicholas Rowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Douglas (Home, 1757)|Douglas: A Tragedy]] (1757), by John Home

====Novels====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[What Katy Did]] (1873), by Sarah Chauncey Woolsey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[What Katy Did at School]] (1876), by Sarah Chauncey Woolsey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Cottagers of Glenburnie]] (1808), by Elizabeth Hamilton (1756-1816)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[In Maremma]] (1882, 3 vols.), by Marie Louise de la Ramée
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The New-Year's Bargain]] (1884), by Sarah Chauncey Woolsey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Political Romance]] (1759), by Laurence Sterne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lieut. Gullivar Jones: His Vacation]] (1905), by Edwin Lester Arnold (''Didn't do the original upload, but did everything else'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Headlong Hall]] (1816), by Thomas Love Peacock
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Were-wolf]] (1896), by Clemence Annie Housman
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Mortover Grange Affair]] (1927), by Joseph Smith Fletcher (''Didn't do the original upload, but did everything else'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Crotchet Castle]] (1831), by Thomas Love Peacock
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Necromancer (Kahlert)|The Necromancer]] (1794), by Karl Friedrich Kahlert (''Didn't do the original upload, but did everything else'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Across the Zodiac: the Story of a Wrecked Record]] (1880), by Percy Greg (''Everything except transcription of one chapter, which I validated'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Trip to the Moon]] (1728), by Murtagh McDermot (''Everything apart from initial upload and 3 pages of proofreading, which I validated'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman]] (1759-1767), by Laurence Sterne (''everything in Volumes 1 to 8, apart from initial upload, about half of Vol. 9'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Tale of Rosamund Gray and Old Blind Margaret]] (1798), by Charles Lamb
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Talleyrand Maxim]] (1920), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Scarhaven Keep]] (1922), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Monk: a Romance]] (1796), by Matthew Gregory Lewis
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Chestermarke Instinct]] (1921), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Bartenstein Case]] (1913), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[On the Stage—and Off]] (1885), by Jerome Klapka Jerome
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rayner-Slade Amalgamation]] (1922), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Black House in Harley Street]] (1928), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Borough Treasurer]] (1921), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Mr. Spivey's Clerk]] (1890), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Dead Men's Money]] (1920), by Joseph Smith Fletcher

====Short stories====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Under the Deodars]] (1890), by Rudyard Kipling
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Quartette]] (1885), by Rudyard Kipling, John Lockwood Kipling, Alice MacDonald Kipling and Alice MacDonald Fleming
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Catalogue of Curious but Prohibited Books]] (1742), by Anonymous (''everything but the initial upload'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Celestial Omnibus and Other Stories]] (1912), by Edward Morgan Forster
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tales from a Rolltop Desk]] (1921), by Christopher Morley (''more or less everything but the initial upload and images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Malvina of Brittany]] (1916), by Jerome Klapka Jerome

====Poetry====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Art of Preserving Health - A Poem in Four Books]] (1744), by John Armstrong
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Rootabaga Pigeons]] (1923), by Carl Sandburgh
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Three Poems upon the death of the late Usurper Oliver Cromwell (1682)]] (1682)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Coopers-Hill]] (1709), by John Denham
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Blenheim, a Poem]] (1705), by John Philips
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Pleasures of Memory (Rogers)|The Pleasures of Memory]] (1873), by Samuel Rogers
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Pennyles Pilgrimage]] (1610), by John Taylor
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Cyder. A poem]] (1708), by John Philips
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Splendid Shilling: An Imitation of Milton]] (1719), by John Philips
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Vanity of Human Wishes]] (1749), by Samuel Johnson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Comus and other poems]] (1906), by John Milton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Trivia, or the Art of Walking the Streets of London to which is added Dr. Johnson's London]] (1809), by John Gay and Samuel Johnson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fears in Solitude (Coleridge)|Fears in Solitude]] (1798), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge (this also migrated ''Frost at Midnight, France: An Ode'' and ''Fears in Solitude'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Village (Crabbe)|The Village]] (1783), by George Crabbe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ode on the Departing Year - Coleridge (1796)|Ode on the Departing Year]] (1796), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sibylline Leaves (Coleridge)|Sibylline Leaves]] (1817), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Ode to the Country Gentlemen of England - Akenside (1758)|An Ode to the Country Gentlemen of England]] (1758), by Mark Akenside
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Ode to the Right Honourable the Earl of Huntingdon (Akenside)|An Ode to the Right Honourable the Earl of Huntingdon]] (1748), by Mark Akenside
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Poem on the Present Assembling of the Parliament, March the 6th, 1678]] (1679), by Edmund Waller
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Epistle to Curio]] (1744), by Mark Akenside
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Pleasures of Imagination (Akenside, 1744)|The Pleasures of Imagination]] (1744), by Mark Akenside
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Odes on Several Subjects (Akenside)|Odes on Several Subjects]] (1745), by Mark Akenside
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Christabel; Kubla Khan; The Pains of Sleep (1816)]] (1816), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on Poetry (Sheffield)|An Essay on Poetry]] (1709), by John Sheffield
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems on Various Subjects (Coleridge)|Poems on Various Subjects]] (1796), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ambarvalia]] (1849), by Arthur Hugh Clough and Thomas Burbidge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Faction Display'd]] (1705), by William Shippen
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[High tide on the coast of Lincolnshire]] (1892), by Jean Ingelow
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Two Poems - E B Browning and R Browning|Two poems]] (1854), by Elizabeth Barrett Browning and Robert Browning
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The City of Dreadful Night and other poems]] (1880), by James Thomson ('B.V.')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Temple of Fame: A Vision]] (1715), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Songs before Sunrise (Swinburne)|Songs before Sunrise]] (1871), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems and Ballads (Swinburne)|Poems and Ballads]] (1866), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Heptalogia (Swinburne)|The Heptalogia]] (1880), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Songs of the Springtides]] (1880), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tristram of Lyonesse and Other Poems]] (1882), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Songs of Two Nations]] (1875), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Tale of Balen]] (1896), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Satyr Against Hypocrites]] (1655), by John Phillips (1631-1706)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Wine (Gay)|Wine: a poem]] (1705), by John Gay
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Dispensary (7th ed)|The Dispensary]] (1714), by Samuel Garth
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lutrin]] (1708), by Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux, translated by John Ozell
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Channel Passage and Other Poems]] (1904), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Midsummer Holiday and Other Poems]] (1884), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Tennyson, 1843)/Volume 1|Poems (volume 1 of 2)]] (1843), by Alfred Tennyson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Tennyson, 1843)/Volume 2|Poems (volume 2 of 2)]] (1843), by Alfred Tennyson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems and Ballads (third series)]] (1889), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hero and Leander, a poem by Musaeus]] (1750), by Musaeus Grammaticus
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hero and Leander (Greene)|Hero and Leander]] (1773), by Musaeus Grammaticus
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Andromeda, and Other Poems]] (1858), by Charles Kinglsey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Fall of Robespierre. An Historic Drama]] (1794), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Campaign: a Poem to His Grace the Duke of Marlborough]] (1710), by Joseph Addison
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Princess; a medley]] (1847), by Alfred Tennyson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Scotish Descriptive Poems]] (1803), by John Leyden
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Amyntas of Tasso]] (1770), by Torquato Tasso, translated by Percival Stockdale
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Art of Dress: a Poem]] (1717), by John Durant Breval
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Petticoat: an Heroi-comical Poem]] (1716), by John Durant Breval
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Key to the Lock. Or, A Treatise Proving, Beyond All Contradiction, the Dangerous Tendency of a Late Poem, Entituled, The Rape of the Lock, to Government and Religion]] (1714), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Shepherd's Week]] (1728), by John Gay
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Horace's Art of Poetry (Roscommon)|Horace's Art of Poetry]] (1680) by Quintus Horatius Flaccus, translated by Wentworth Dillon
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on Translated Verse (Roscommon)|An Essay on Translated Verse]] (1684), by Wentworth Dillon
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Epistle from Mr. Pope to Dr. Arbuthnot]] (1735), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Modern Parnassus; or, The New Art of Poetry]] (1814), by anonymous
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Gondibert: An Heroick Poem]] (1651), by William Davenant
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Posthumous Poems]] (1917), by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Niagara. A Poem]] (1822), by Abraham Moore
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Epistle to the Right Honourable Allen, Lord Bathurst]] (1733), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Epistle to the Right Honourable Richard, Earl of Burlington]] (1731), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Epistle to the Right Honourable Richard, Lord Viscount Cobham]] (1733), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Artemisa to Cloe]] (1679), by John Wilmot
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Tennyson, 1833)|Poems]] (1833), by Alfred Tennyson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Southey)/Volume 1|Poems (Volume 1)]] (1799), by Robert Southey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Southey)/Volume 2|Poems (Volume 2)]] (1799), by Robert Southey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lewesdon Hill]] (1788), by William Crowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Shake-speares Sonnets, Never before Imprinted]] (1609), by William Shakespeare
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Goblin Market and Other Poems (1862)|Goblin Market and Other Poems]] (1862), by Christina Georgina Rossetti
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Dramatis Personæ]] (1864), by Robert Browning (''Includes migration of a number of unsourced versions of the poems'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Iliad in a Nutshell: or Homer's Battle of the Frogs and Mice]] (1726), by Homer 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Homer in a Nutshell, or, His War Between the Frogs and the Mice (Parker)|Homer in a Nutshell, or, His War Between the Frogs and the Mice]] (1700), by Homer
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Batrachomyomachia, or, the wonderfull and bloudy Battell betweene Frogs and Mice]] (1634) by Homer
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Temple: Sacred Poems and Private Ejaculations]] (1633), by George Herbert (''included some migration of individual poems already on WS'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Retaliation (Goldsmith)|Retaliation]] (1774), by Oliver Goldsmith
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Dunciad]] (1743), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Farm and Fruit of Old|The Farm and Fruit of Old. A translation in verse of the First and Second Georgics of Virgil]] (1862), by Richard Doddridge Blackmore
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pastorals (Philips)|Pastorals]] (1710), by Ambrose Philips
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rosciad]] (1761), by Charles Churchill
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems, Chiefly Lyrical]] (1830), by Alfred Tennyson (''everything except initial upload, included some migration of individual poems already on WS'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Picture Show (Sassoon)|Picture Show]] (1919), by Siegfried Sassoon (''included some migration of individual poems already on WS'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Of the Characters of Women: An Epistle to a Lady]] (1735), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Musæus: a Monody to the Memory of Mr. Pope, in Imitation of Milton's Lycidas]] (1747), by William Mason
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[One Thousand Seven Hundred and Thirty Eight. A Dialogue Something Like Horace]] (1738), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[One Thousand Seven Hundred and Thirty Eight. Dialogue II.]] (1738), by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Memorials of a Tour on the Continent, 1820]] (1822), by William Wordsworth
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Joan of Arc (Southey)|Joan of Arc]] (1796), by Robert Southey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ode Occasion'd by the Death of Mr. Thomson]] (1749), by William Collins
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Chace]] (1735), by William Somervile
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Madagascar; with Other Poems]] (1638), by William Davenant (''everything apart from about half of the images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Elegy Wrote in a Country Church Yard (1751)|An Elegy Wrote in a Country Church Yard]] (1751), by Thomas Gray
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Earth Turns South]] (1919), by Clement Richardson Wood
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Giaour]] (1813), by George Gordon Byron
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Batrachomuomachia: or, the Battle of the Frogs and Mice]] (1736), by Henry Price
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Hind and the Panther]] (1687), by John Dryden
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Story of Rimini]] (1816), by James Henry Leigh Hunt
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Universe (Baker)|The Universe]] (1727), by Henry Baker (1698-1774)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Belfry of Bruges and Other Poems]] (1846), by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Moonlight, a Poem: with Several Copies of Verses]] (1814), by Edward Hovell-Thurlow
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Rainbows (Custance)|Rainbows]] (1902), by Olive Custance
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Works of Abraham Cowley/Volume 1|The Works of Abraham Cowley, Volume 1]] (1806), by Abraham Cowley
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Blue Bird (Custance)|The Blue Bird]] (1905), by Olive Custance
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Homer's Battle of the Frogs and Mice]] (1717), translated by Thomas Parnell
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems (Lewis)|Poems]] (1812), by Matthew Gregory Lewis
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ferishtah's Fancies]] (1884), by Robert Browning
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Poetical Works of Elijah Fenton]] (1779), by Elijah Fenton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ballads of Battle]] (1916), by Joseph Lee
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems on Several Occasions (Broome)|Poems on Several Occasions]] (1739), by William Broome
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems, Sacred and Moral]] (1803), by Thomas Gisborne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Work-a-day Warriors]] (1917), by Joseph Lee 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems, in Two Volumes (Wordsworth, 1807)|Poems, in Two Volumes]] (1807), by William Wordsworth 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Men and Women (Browning)|Men and Women]] (1855), by Robert Browning (''Also migrated multiple unsourced works'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Faerie Queene (1590/1596)/Books 1 to 3 (1590)|The Faerie Queene, Books I to III]] (1590), by Edmund Spenser
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pollio (Mickle, 1766)|Pollio: An Elegiac Ode]] (1766), by William Julius Mickle
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Tears of Music (Langhorne, 1760)|The Tears of Music]] (1760), by John Langhorne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Odes (Mason, 1756)|Odes]] (1756), by William Mason (1724-1797)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Traveller (Goldsmith, 1765)|The Traveller, or, A Prospect of Society]] (1765), by Oliver Goldsmith
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Visions of Fancy (Langhorne, 1762)|The Visions of Fancy]] (1762), by John Langhorne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Elegies (Mason, 1763)|Elegies]] (1763), by William Mason (1724-1797)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Edwin and Emma (Mallet, 1760)|Edwin and Emma]] (1760), by David Mallet
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ballads (Masefield, 1903)|Ballads]] (1903), by John Masefield (''also migrated a number of unsourced works'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Progress of Poetry (Madan, 1783)|The Progress of Poetry]] (1783), by Judith Madan
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Brittish Princes: An Heroick Poem]] (1669), by Edward Howard (1624-1700)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems of Nature (Whittier)|Poems of Nature]] (1886), by John Greenleaf Whittier
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Salmagundi (Huddesford, 1791)|Salmagundi]] (1791), by George Huddesford
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Maid's Tragedy Altered]] (1690), by Edmund Waller
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]] (1762), by William Falconer (1732-1769)
{{graphic rule}}

===Migrations===
====Non fiction====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Cousins's Short Biographical Dictionary of English Literature.djvu]] - ''in progress''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essays (Cowley)|Essays]] (1886) by Abraham Cowley
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Letter from a Person of Quality to His Friend in the Country]] (1675) by Anthony Ashley Cooper
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Areopagitica (1644)|Areopagitica]] (1644) by John Milton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Confessions of an English Opium-Eater]] (1823) by Thomas De Quincey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Age of Shakespeare]] (1908) by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Vindication of the Rights of Men]] (1790) by Mary Wollstonecraft
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Present State of Wit (1711)|The Present State of Wit, in a Letter to a Friend in the Country]] (1711), by John Gay
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Necessity of Atheism (Shelley)|The Necessity of Atheism]] (1821) by Percy Bysshe Shelley
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Virginibus Puerisque and Other Papers]] (1881) by Robert Louis Stevenson (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Philosophical Essays Concerning Human Understanding]] (1748) by David Hume (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Vindication of Natural Society]] (1756) by Edmund Burke (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Enquiry Concerning the Principles of Morals]] (1751) by David Hume (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Four Dissertations]] (1757) by David Hume (''migration of two works, transcription of the other two'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Life of David Hume, Esq.]] (1777), by David Hume (''complete migration plus transcription of associated front matter'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Historic Doubts Relative to Napoleon Buonaparte]] (1874) by Richard Whately (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Discourse on the Method]] (1853) by René Descartes (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[On the Magnet]] (1900) by William Gilbert (''complete migration, plus reworked all of the images on Commons'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[George Bernard Shaw]] (1909) by Gilbert Keith Chesterton (''complete migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Utopia of Usurers and Other Essays]] (1917), by Gilbert Keith Chesterton (''complete migration'')

====Plays====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Cato, a Tragedy]] (1713), by Joseph Addison
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[All for Love (Dryden)|All for Love: or, The World well Lost]] (1678) by John Dryden
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Atalanta in Calydon]] (1865) by Algernon Charles Swinburne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Samson Agonistes]] (1661), by John Milton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Jew of Malta]] (1633), by Christopher Marlowe ''(part migration, part transcription)''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Tragedy of the Dutchesse of Malfy]] (1623), by John Webster
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Massacre at Paris]] (1600?), by Christopher Marlowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Edward II|The Troublesome Raigne and Lamentable Death of Edward the Second, King of England]] (1622), by Christopher Marlowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Edward III (play)|The Raigne of King Edward the Third]] (1596), by William Shakespeare and Thomas Kyd
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Venice Preserv'd]] (1682), by Thomas Otway
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Two Angry Women of Abingdon]] (1599), by Henry Porter
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pericles, Prince of Tyre (1609)|Pericles, Prince of Tyre]] (1609), by William Shakespeare
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Fair Penitent]] (1703), by Nicholas Rowe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow; color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Spanish Tragedie]] (1602), by Thomas Kyd

====Novels====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The History of Rasselas, Prince of Abyssinia]] (1759), by Samuel Johnson ''(2 volumes)''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[What Katy Did Next]] (1886) by Sarah Chauncey Woolsey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fanny Hill: Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure]] (1749), by John Cleland ''(2 volumes)''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Eugene Aram]] (1832), by Edward George Earle Lytton Bulwer ''(3 volumes)''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Little Men]] (1871) by Louisa May Alcott
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Little Women]] (1868) by Louisa May Alcott
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Wrong Box]] (1889) by Robert Louis Stevenson and Lloyd Osbourne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Ebb-Tide]] (1894) by Robert Louis Stevenson and Lloyd Osbourne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Weir of Hermiston]] (1896) by Robert Louis Stevenson (''Almost all of the migration, plus transcription of 'editorial comment' section'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sister Carrie]] (1900) by Theodore Dreiser (''Almost all of the migration, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The House of the Seven Gables]] (1851) by Nathaniel Hawthorne (''Complete migration, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Blithedale Romance]] (1852) by Nathaniel Hawthorne (''Contributed to migration and associated transclusion, plus minor validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Catriona]] (1893) by Robert Lewis Stevenson (''Complete migration, plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tarzan the Terrible]] (1921) by Edgar Rice Burroughs (''Migrated a few chapters, small amount of transcription/validation, plus updated transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Room with a View]] (1908) by Edward Morgan Forster (''Migrated whole work, plus updated transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Way of All Flesh]] (1903) by Samuel Butler (1835-1902) (''Migrated virtually the whole work.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Nightmare Abbey]] (1818) by Thomas Love Peacock (''Migrated virtually the whole work (transcribed, proofread or validated every page, plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Inland Voyage]] (1878) by Robert Louis Stevenson
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Middle of Things]] (1922) by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Copper Box]] (1923) by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner]] (1824) by James Hogg 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ravensdene Court]] (1922) by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Markenmore Mystery]] (1923) by Joseph Smith Fletcher

====Short stories====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Story of the Gadsbys]] (1888), by Rudyard Kipling (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Life's Handicap]] (1891), by Rudyard Kipling (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Phantom Rickshaw and Other Tales]] (1890), by Rudyard Kipling (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[In Black and White]] (1891), by Rudyard Kipling (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Soldiers Three]] (1890), by Rudyard Kipling
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Diary of a Pilgrimage]] (1891), by Jerome Klapka Jerome (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tales from Shakespeare, illus. Rackham (1908)|Tales from Shakespeare]] (1908), by Charles Lamb and Mary Lamb
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Literary Lapses]] (1919), by Stephen Butler Leacock
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Idle Thoughts of an Idle Fellow]] (1886), by Jerome Klapka Jerome

====Poetry====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Paradise Regained|Paradise Regain'd]] (1661), by John Milton
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rime of the Ancient Mariner (1817)|The Rime of the Ancient Mariner]] (1817) by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Bothie of Toper-na-fuosich]] (1848) by Arthur Hugh Clough
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on Criticism]] (1711) by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hero and Leander (Marlowe)|Hero and Leander]] (1821) by Christopher Marlowe and George Chapman (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on Man]] (1751) by Alexander Pope
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Seasons (Thomson)|The Seasons]] (1791) by James Thomson (1700-1748) (''migration of poetry, transcription of associated material'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Castle of Indolence]] (1748) by James Thomson (1700-1748) 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam (tr. Fitzgerald, 1st edition)|The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam]] (1859) by Edward FitzGerald 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[In Memoriam (Tennyson)|In Memoriam]] (1850) by Alfred Tennyson 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Absalom and Achitophel]] (1682) by John Dryden
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Resignation (Young)|Resignation]] (1762) by Edward Young
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pastorals (Pope)|Pastorals]] (1793) by Alexander Pope (''part migration, part transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Fable for Critics]] (1848) by James Russell Lowell (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Windsor Forest (4th edition)|Windsor-Forest]] (1720) by Alexander Pope (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Lay of the Last Minstrel]] (1805) by Walter Scott (''full migration plus transcription of notes'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Annus Mirabilis: The Year of Wonders]] (1688) by John Dryden (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Deserted Village]] (1770) by Oliver Goldsmith (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fungi from Yuggoth]] (1930) by Howard Phillips Lovecraft (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Manfred, a dramatic poem]] (1817) by George Gordon Byron (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pacchiarotto|Pacchiarotto and How He Worked in Distemper: with Other Poems]] (1876) by Robert Browning (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hellas]] (1821) by Percy Bysshe Shelley (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Orion]] (1843) by Richard Henry Horne (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Shepheardes Calender]] (1579) by Edmund Spenser (''part migration, part transcription, plus images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ebony and Crystal]] (1922) by Clark Ashton Smith (''Mostly migration, some limited transcription'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Ultima Thule]] (1880) by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fables for the Frivolous]] (1889) by Guy Wetmore Carryl (''limited transcription, most of the validation plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems on Slavery]] (1842) by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (''contents had already been migrated, created all required pages or validated existing ones'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poetical Essay on the Existing State of Things]] (1811) by Percy Bysshe Shelley (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Le Lutrin]] (1682) by Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux, translated by N. O. (''full migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Lady of the Lake]] (1810) by Walter Scott (''migration of poem, transcription of notes'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Feminiad (Duncombe, 1754, 1st ed.)|The Feminiad: A Poem]] (1754) by John Duncombe
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lalla Rookh]] (1817) by Thomas Moore (1779-1852) (''part migration, plus lots of transcription/proofreading, transcription of notes'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Panegyrick to my Lord Protector (Waller, 1655)|A Panegyrick to my Lord Protector]] (1655) by Edmund Waller (''full migration'')
{{graphic rule}}

===Significant contributions===
====Non fiction====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Lives of the Poets Laureate]] (1853)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Great Neapolitan Earthquake of 1857]], volume 2
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Transactions of the Geological Society, 1st series, vol. 2]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Frederic Rowton on Landon]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[British Statutes (Application to India) Repeal Act 1960]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Encyclopædia Britannica, Ninth Edition/Volume XXIII]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pauperization: cause and cure]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Friendship's Offering 1828.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Natural History, Reptiles.djvu]]
* &lt;span class=&quot;quality2&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:The sexual life of savages in north-western Melanesia.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Blackwood's Magazine volume 001.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Diary of the times of Charles II Vol. I.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Philosophical Transactions - Volume 001.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aircraft Accident Report: National Airlines Flight 2511]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aviation Accident Report: 1945 Page Airways Accident]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, American Airlines Training Flight 514.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Mid-Air Collision on 30 September 1959.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Eastern Air Lines Flight 14.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Zantop Logair Flight 60-16.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, AAXICO Logair Flight 1814.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Standard Airways Flight 388C.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:The Lives of the Most Eminent English Poets, Volume 2.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:History of the Royal Society.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Eastern Air Lines Flight 5.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Delta Air Lines Flight 8715.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, Mid-Air Collision on 7 November 1959.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:The Works of William Harvey (part 1 of 2).djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Edinburgh Review Volume 59.djvu]], papers by Charles Babbage
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:New observations on inoculation - Angelo Gatti.djvu]] (1762), by Angelo Gatti
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, National Airlines Flight 967.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Aircraft Accident Report, AAXICO LOGAIR Trip 7002.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds Vol 1.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:The Discovery of a World in the Moone, 1638.djvu]] (1638), by John Wilkins
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:CAB Accident Report, West Coast Airlines Flight 703.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Treatise upon the Small-Pox]] (1723), by Richard Blackmore
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Elementary Treatise on Optics]] (1823), by Henry Coddington
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[William Blake in his relation to Dante Gabriel Rossetti]] (1911), by Johanna Christina Emerentia Bassalik-de Vries
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Samuel Johnson (1911).djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[In the High Heavens]] (1910), by Robert Stawell Ball
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Once a Week Jun to Dec 1864.pdf]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Dissertation on the Puerperal Fever]] (1789), by Pierre de Sales Laterrière
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Evisceration]] (1889), by Arthur Edward Prince
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Omniana/Volume 1|Omniana, or Horæ Otiosiores: Volume 1]] (1812), by Robert Southey
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Hittites]] (1890), by Archibald Henry Sayce
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essays in Modernity: Criticisms and Dialogues]] (1899), by Francis William Lauderdale Adams
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Slavery in the United States]] (1823), by Charles Ball {''transcription, validation and transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Appeal to the Wealthy of the Land]] (1833), by Mathew Carey (''transcription, proofreading and transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Parochial History of Cornwall/Volume 1|The Parochial History of Cornwall - Volume 1]] (1838), by Davies Gilbert (''partial prooreading &amp; complete transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Omniana/Volume 2|Omniana, or Horæ Otiosiores: Volume II]] (1812), by Robert Southey {''partial transcription, partial proofreading &amp; complete transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Gallery of Children]] (1925), by Alan Alexander Milne ''(some transcription, some proofreading, some validation, plus most of the transclusion) ''
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Essays on the Principles of Human Action]] (1835), by William Hazlitt (1778-1830) (''didn't upload the book but proofread all of it, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Arthur Machen: A Novelist of Ecstasy and Sin]] (1918), by Vincent Starett (''Validated all of the work.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Why I Am an Infidel]] (1926), by Luther Burbank (''Most of proofreading and complete transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Biographical Dictionary of the Celebrated Women of Every Age and Country]] (1804), by Mary Matilda Betham (''Various proofreading, validation and transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Sidereal Messenger of Galileo Galilei]] (1880), by Galileo Galilei (''Created and proofread all but two content pages, plus illustrations and transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Divers voyages touching the discouerie of America]] (1582), by Richard Hakluyt (''Various proofreading, validation and transclusion, plus uploaded images.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[On the Characters, Properties, and Uses of Eucalyptus Globulus and Other Species of Eucalyptus]] (1874), by Robert Bentley (''Most of the proofreading plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Physical and Topographical Sketch of the Mississippi Territory, Lower Louisiana, and a Part of West Florida]] (1803), by Garrett Elliott Pendergrast (''Much of the proofreading plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hesiod, and Theognis]] (1873), by James Davies (''some transcription, some validation, some transclusion plus complete review of work to make poetry formatting consistent.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The clock problem (clock paradox) in relativity]] (1959), by Mildred Catherine Benton (''some transcription, some validation, plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sketch of Connecticut, Forty Years Since]] (1824), by Lydia Sigourney (''much transcription, some validation, plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Thoughts on the causes and consequences of the present high price of provisions]] (1767), by Soame Jenyns (''validated all, plus corrected transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An answer to a pamphlet, intitled, &quot;Thoughts on the causes and consequences of the present high price of provisions&quot; in a letter, addressed to the supposed author of that pamphlet]] (1768), by Anonymous (''validated all, plus corrected transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Heart of Monadnock]] (1922), by Elizabeth Weston Timlow (''most of proofread plus upload of images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Reflections on the Decline of Science in England]] (1830), by Charles Babbage (''Did pretty much everything except initial upload'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Treatise concerning the Use and Abuse of the Marriage Bed]] (1727), by Daniel Defoe (''Did pretty much everything except initial upload'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Aran Islands]] (1912), by John Millington Synge (''A lot of proofreading and validation'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Soul of London]] (1905), by Ford Madox Heufer (''Transcribed everything but the front matter'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Alexander Pope (Stephen)|Alexander Pope]] (1880), by Leslie Stephen (''Transcribed almost everything but the front matter and a few other pages'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Art of Kissing]] (1926), by Clement Wood (''Some transcription, proofreading and validation. Sourcing and linking of quotes, whole of transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Discourse Concerning the Natation of Bodies]] (1663), by Galileo Galilei (''Proofreading and validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Harveian Oration 1867]] (1867), by James Alderson (''Full validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Music of the Spheres]] (1926), by Florence Armstrong Grondal (''Lots of transcription and transclusion, plus improved some of the images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Harveian Oration: Delivered Before the Royal College of Physicians of London on June 21st, 1905]] (1905), by Frederick Thomas Roberts (''Significant proofreading / validation'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Time and Tide by Weare and Tyne]] (1886), by John Ruskin (''Some validation, most of transclusion, added links'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A History of Cawthorne]] (1882), by Charles Tiplady Pratt (''Lots of proofreading, completion of migration'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Harveian Oration: Delivered Before the Royal College of Physicians on June 21, 1904]] (1904), by Richard Caton (''Lots of proofreading/validation, added images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Harveian oration 1873]] (1873), by George Rolleston (''Lots of proofreading/validation'')

====Plays====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Playboy of the Western World]] (1912), by Edmund John Millington Synge (''lots of transcription and transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Shakespeare - First Folio facsimile (1910)]] (1623), by William Shakespeare (''lots of transcription and transclusion'')

====Novels====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Wuthering Heights (1st edition)/Volume 1]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Wuthering Heights (1st edition)/Volume 2]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sylvie and Bruno]], by Lewis Carroll
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sylvie and Bruno Concluded]], by Lewis Carroll
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Zanoni]], Volume 1
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Tarzan and the Jewels of Opar]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Valperga (1823) Shelley Vol 1.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Valperga (1823) Shelley Vol 2.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Leaf in the Storm; A Dog of Flanders and Other Stories]] (1872), by 'Ouida' (Marie Louise de la Ramée)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[In a Winter City]] (1876), by 'Ouida' (Marie Louise de la Ramée) 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Mummy (Loudon)/Volume 2]] (1827), by Jane Loudon
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Orange-Yellow Diamond]] (1922), by Joseph Smith Fletcher
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Semi-attached Couple]] (1890), by [[Author:Emily Eden|Emily Eden]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Edgar Huntly, or The Sleep Walker]] (1831), by Charles Brockden Brown
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Jane Eyre (1st edition)]] (1847), by Charlotte Brontë (''mostly transcription of volume 3'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Sylvester Sound the Somnambulist]] (1844), by Henry Cockton (''ongoing prooreading/transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Baron Trump's Marvellous Underground Journey]] (1893), by Ingersoll Lockwood {''transclusion and corrections'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Semi-detached House]] (1859), by Emily Eden (''transcription and proofreading'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Floating City (1904)]] (1904), by Jules Verne
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Manhattan Transfer]] (1925), by John Dos Passos (''touched every page (transcription, proofreading, validation), plus much of the transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Railway Children]] (1906), by Edith Nesbit (''Some proofreading and much validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Three Speeds Forward]] (1906), by Lloyd Osbourne (''Much proofreading, some validation and complete transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Kidnapped - Stevenson (1887)|Kidnapped]] (1887), by Robert Louis Stevenson (''Pretty much everything except the initial upload. Illustrations were already on Commons.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Our Nig; or Sketches from the Life of a Free Black]] (1859) by Harriet E. Wilson (''part migration, part transcription.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Porgy]] (1925) by DuBose Heyward (''everything except initial upload.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Incredulity of Father Brown]] (1926) by Gilbert Keith Chesterton (''Most transcription, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Reign of George VI]] (1763) by Samuel Madden (''most of the proofread, plus transclusion and images.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lolly Willowes]] (1926) by Sylvia Townsend Warner (''most of the proofread, plus transclusion and images.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lucian's True History]] (1894) by Lucian of Samosata (''some transcription and transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Wanderer (Burney)|The Wanderer]] (1814) by Fanny Burney (''most of the transcription and transclusion of all five volumes.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Moods]] (1864) by Louisa May Alcott (''lots of transcription plus transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The House at Pooh Corner (1961)|The House at Pooh Corner]] (1961) by Alan Alexander Milne (''lots of transcription plus most of the images.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Chambermaid's Diary]] (1900) by Octave Mirbeau (''a chunk of proofreading, and a chunk of validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Zuleika Dobson]] (1911) by Max Beerbohm (''lots of proofreading.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Napoleon of Notting Hill]] (1904) by Gilbert Keith Chesterton (''a chunk of proofreading, some validation, some transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Viaduct Murder]] (1926) by Ronald Arbuthnott Knox (''almost everything apart from initial upload and a few pages.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Old Ninety-Nine's Cave]] (1909), by Elizabeth H. Gray (''fixed the scan, lots of proofreading, uploaded images.'')

====Short stories====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Collected Works of Ambrose Bierce/Volume 2]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: pink;color:#202122&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:The Yellow Book - 13.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 5|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 5]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 6|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 6]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Yellow Book/Volume 1|The Yellow Book: Volume 1]] (1894), edited by Henry Harland
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 3|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 3]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Rootabaga Stories.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 2|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 2]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Index:Stories told to a child.djvu]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 1|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 1]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Shen of the Sea]] (1925), by Arthur Bowie Chrisman (''some proofreading, some validation, some transclusion, plus upload of illustrations.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Fire!!]] (1926), edited by Wallace Henry Thurman (''some proofreading, some validation, all of transclusion, plus upload of all graphics and illustrations.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag/Volume 4|Aunt Jo's Scrap-Bag, Volume 4]] (''large proportion of transcription and transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Camperdown|Camperdown, or, News from our neighbourhood]] (1836), by Mary Griffith (''most of proofread, limited validation and all of transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Yellow Book/Volume 3|The Yellow Book: Volume 3]] (1894), edited by Henry Harland

====Poetry====
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poetical Works of John Oldham]] (1854), edited by Robert Bell
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Leaves of Grass (1860)]] (1860), by Walt Whitman
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Poetical Works of Thomas Parnell]] (1833)
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[An Essay on Virgil's Æneid]] (1728), by Christopher Pitt
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems upon Several Occasions]] (1726), by George Granville
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Ascent of Man]] (1889), by Mathilde Blind
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Odes of Horace, Book 5]] (1921), by [[Author:Quintus Horatius Flaccus|Horace]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Odes and Carmen Saeculare]] (1892), by [[Author:Quintus Horatius Flaccus|Horace]]
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Prometheus Unbound; a lyrical drama in four acts with other poems]] (1820), by Percy Bysshe Shelley {''transcription and proofreading'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Prometheus Bound, and other poems]] (1851), by Elizabeth Barrett Browning (''most of Casa Guidi Windows'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[When We Were Very Young]] (1925), by Alan Alexander Milne (''some proofreading , some validation, most of the transclusion, plus associated editing to transclude correctly'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hebrew Melodies (Byron, 1815)|Hebrew Melodies]] (1815), by George Gordon Byron (''much proofreading, some validation, most of the transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Demeter and other poems]] (1889), by Alfred Tennyson (''most of the transcription and proofreading, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Enoch Arden, etc]] (1864), by Alfred Tennyson (''most of the transcription and proofreading, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Amyntas, A Tale of the Woods]] (1820), by Torquato Tasso (''fixed the scan, most of the transcription and proofreading, plus transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Pastorals Epistles Odes (1748)|Pastorals, epistles, odes, and other original poems, with translations from Pindar, Anacreon, and Sappho]] (1748), by Ambrose Philips (''fixed the scan (50%+ missing), lots of the transcription and proofreading, plus graphic items and improved transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Collection of Poems]] (1709), by William Shakespeare (''Lots of proofreading and validation.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Grumbling Hive]] (1705), by Bernard Mandeville (''reformatting of poem, plus validation'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Color (Cullen)|Color]] (1925), by Countee Cullen (''Most of transcription and proofreading, plus all of the transclusion.'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Copper Sun (Cullen)|Copper Sun]] (1927), by Countee Cullen (''some transcription, some validation plus all of the transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Triumphs of Temper (11th ed.)|The Triumphs of Temper]] (1801), by William Hayley (''almost everything except the initial upload'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Spring Harvest]] (1916), by Geoffrey Brache Smith (''some proofreading, more validation plus all of the transclusion'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Lyrical Ballads (1798)|Lyrical Ballads]] (1798), by William Wordsworth and Samuel Taylor Coleridge (''transcribed several poems'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Rosemary and Pansies]] (1904), by Bertram Dobell (''various migrations, transcription, extensive transclusion, some proofreading'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: lime;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Rape of the Lock]] (1724), by Alexander Pope (''improved formatting, much validation'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Poems on Slavery]] (1842), by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (''did either proofreading or validation of whole work'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Hudibras]] (1859), by Samuel Butler (''lots of proofreading, some validation, a proportion of the images'')
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Opals (Custance)|Opals]] (1897), by Olive Custance (''lots of proofreading, some validation'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[A Shropshire Lad]] (1906), by Alfred Edward Housman (''lots of proofreading and transclusion, some validation'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Inn of Dreams]] (1911), by Olive Custance (''lots of proofreading, some validation'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Artemis to Actæon (1909)|Artemis to Actæon]] (1909), by Edith Wharton (''a lot of proofreading, some validation, finalised transclusion'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[The Ballad of St. Barbara and other verses]] (1922), by Gilbert Keith Chesterton (''some transcription, some proofreading, some validation, finalised transclusion'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Destroyers and Other Verses]] (1919), by Henry Head (''some transcription, some proofreading, some validation, finalised transclusion'') 
* &lt;span style=&quot;background-color: yellow;color:#202122;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;[[Parerga]] (1843), by Edward Shepherd Creasy (''lots of proofreading and transclusion, some validation'') 
{{graphic rule}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Living Flora of West Virginia and The Fossil Flora of West Virginia.pdf/41</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2539161</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133615</id>
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      <text bytes="2492" sha1="3lvmyjo7nlr3cdi97vtjhsq1a8kqau8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Abyssal&quot; /&gt;{{rh||WEST VIRGINIA GEOLOGICAL SURVEY|17}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Mx., and ''longipilum'', Terr, (extending- both) ; and ''Chondrilla juncea'', L., called, as a weed, &quot;Naked-weed, Skeleton-weed.&quot; 

The interesting bell-worts are : the white form of ''Lobelia syphilitica'', L., and the rare ''Campanula divaricata'', Mx. 

Of the rarer heaths ''Schollera crythrocarpa'', Mx., grows on 
the highest peak of the Alleghanies, alt. 4,800 ft. ; ''Chiogenes hispidula'' at the Falls of Blackwater ; ''Menziesia globularis'' Salisb., ''Clethra acuminata'', Mx., ''Moneses grandiflora'', Salisb., and all ''the'' Rhododendrons except ''Rhodora'' and ''Lapponicum''; even the rare ''R. canescens'' (Mx.), Porter, being found along the Cacapon River. 

''Naumbergia thyrsiflora'' is found in Upshur County and 
''Mohrodendron Carolinum'' (called Shittim-wood) is plentiful 
along the Gauley and New Rivers. ''Polemonium Van-Bruntiae'' 
Britt., comes south to our flora, as well as all the ''Hydrophyllums'', together with ''Phacelia Purshii'', Buck, and ''parviflora'', Pursh. 

The beautiful morning-glories, ''Impomoea coccinea'', ''hederacea'', ''purpurea'', and ''pandurata'', are all too plentiful as weeds here; and ''Cuscuta glomerata'', ''Gronovii'' and ''Epithymum'', have been found sparingly. ''Physalis viscosa'', L.. steals away from &quot;near the coast&quot; and is found along the Ohio River, keeping company with ''Lycium vulgare'', Dun., and ''Physalodes Physaloides''; Gaertn. 

The notable ''Scrophularias'' are : ''Collinsia verna'', Xutt., ''Chelone obliqua'', L., and ''Pentstemon canescens''. Of the mints we have notably: ''Koellia verticilata'', ''clinopodioides'', ''pycanthemoides'', and ''montana''. The other mints worthy of remark are: ''Meehania cordata'', ''Clinopodium vulgare'', ''Scutellaria saxatilis'', ''serrata'', ''incana'', ''parvula'', and ''nervosa''; ''Marrubium vulgare'', ''Galeopsis tetrahit'', and ''Stachys palustris'' and ''cordata''. 

Of the ten Euphorbias the most notable are ''E. Darlingtonii'' 
and ''E. Glyptosperma'', ''var.'', ''pubescens'', Engl., the latter not having been previously found east of Iowa as far as we can learn. 

The presence of ''Quercus ilicifolia'', Wang, in Hardy County.{{sic}} extends the Manual distribution southeastward ; and the southing of ''Q. macrocarpa'', Mx. is also extended by several stations in the State. 

As to the conifers, we have about 270,000 acres of ''Picea Mariana'', a few representatives of ''Abies balsamea''. ''Thuya occi-''&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Living Flora of West Virginia and The Fossil Flora of West Virginia.pdf/42</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2539162</id>
    <revision>
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      <text bytes="2420" sha1="qnvigbjn3g6iuvhiiun9ddy1i6vb1cv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Abyssal&quot; /&gt;{{rh|18|THE WEST VIRGINIA FLORA|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;

t8 the west Virginia I'Lora 

''dentalis'', and several species of Pinus, as well as a few scant growths of ''Taxus Minor''. 

Among the sedges the principal item of interest is the re- 
discovery in Fayette County of what was doubtless the original 
type station of ''Carex Fraseri'', And. 

Of the ''Equisetaccae'' the most notable form so far found is 
''E. laevigatum'', Braun., gathered in the southernmost part of the State thus extending its distribution southeastward. 

Of the ''Filices'', the rarer forms found with us are : ''Polypodium polypodioides''; ''Pellaea atropurpurea'' in great quantities in the southern section; ''Asplenium pinnatifidum'', ''montanum'' (plentiful) and ''angustifolium''; ''Dryoptcris Goldieana'', and ''marginalis'' ''Cystopteris bulbifera''; ''Dicksonia punctilobula''; and strange to say 
on the summit of Spruce Knob at an altitude of 4,800 ft. 
''Dryopteris fragrans'', in such great quantity that it is cut and stacked for fodder, this species being greatly relished by cattle. 

''Lycopodium lucidulum'', L., ''annotinum'', L., ''obscurum'' and its var. ''dendroideum'', L., ''clavatum'', and L. ''complanatum'' are all found in the forests of black spruce along the Alleghanies. 

In the mosses, hepatics, and lichens, but little collecting has 
so far been done, no systemic searches having been made for 
specimens in these classes of plants. In the search for hepatics 
incidental to other exploration, in Mercer County, the dry bald 
face of a large limestone cave yielded a new species in ''Plagiochila Virginica'' Evans, as well as a rarity in the eastern flora of the United States, ''Radula Xalapensis'', Mont. Among the mosses we have been rewarded in our itinerant work by finding two new forms ''Dicranodontium Virginicus'', Britt. m. and ''D. Millspaughi'' Britt. m., as well as numerous noteworthy species. 

Beside these unique forms, we report many species from our 
region that have not been before credited to the flora of North 
America, include many hitherto unpublished asci and spore 
measurements of species otherwise well described, and have 
transferred many not before well understood. 

The host plants have proven also to be of special interest in 
that many of them yield certain species for the first time in the 
mycologic literature of this country, and many others pose as 
altogether new to Host Indices.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 02.djvu/530</title>
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      <text bytes="5534" sha1="gvqhf1ks00rm3jpks56vuuqniwjl6ut" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;TE(æ)A,ea.&quot; /&gt;{{rh|BAND.|456|BANDA ISLANDS.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;largely to Charles Godfrey, born 1790, who in 1813 joined the band of the Coldstream Guards as a bassoon-player, became bandmaster, and remained such until his death in 1863. In the United States, Patrick Sarsfield Gilmore, born December 25, 1829, was the moving spirit. His first band was organized in Boston, 1859, but shortly afterwards he became a bandmaster in the Federal Army, serving throughout the Civil War. He was world-famous for the novel effects he produced in military music, on occasions using musketry and artillery guns to increase his musical effects. Bands in the United States Army are recruited generally for that specific purpose, the members being enlisted men, and usually consist of 28 men, all ranks. (For pay of same, see article {{NIE article link|Pay and Allowances}}.) Instruments are supplied by the Quartermaster’s Department.

In England bandmasters are specially trained at Kneller Hall, and on appointment receive warrant rank, with pay at 5 shillings per day, and £70 per annum from the band fund. The men are generally recruited as boys, from 14 to 16 years of age, usually from military institutions, schools, and training-ships. The official establishment of British Army bands is 31 all told for infantry, and 23 for cavalry; but without exception this number is greatly increased at the personal expense of the officers of the regiments, who pay for all extra men, music, and instruments. A thoroughly trained, fully equipped, numerically strong band is often a point of regimental rivalry, and while it has succeeded in endowing the British Army with the best bands in Europe on an average, it has been done only at the expense of officers, already financially overtaxed. The following bands are considered among the leading military bands of Europe: The Royal Artillery, Royal Marine, and Guards Band, of England; the Kaiser-Franz Grenadier Band, of Germany; the Guides’ Band, of Belgium; the Garde Republicaine Band, of France; the Imperial Guards’ Band, of Austria; the Ottoman Palace Band, of Turkey: the Bersaglieri Band, of Italy; the Czar’s Regiment of Guards’ Band, of Russia.

For fuller details the reader is referred to ''United States Army Regulations'' for composition and equipment of United States Army bands; [[Author:George Grove|Grove]], ''[[A Dictionary of Music and Musicians|Dictionary of Music]]'' (London, 1894), for biographies of military music composers and bandmasters; and the article “Militärmusik,” by Rode, in the ''Musikalisches Conversations-Lexicon'' (Berlin, 1877).
&lt;section end=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;{{missing image}}
{{smaller block|{{c|{{asc|Bandages Applied.}}}}

Roller Bandages: 1, eye; 2, finger, wrist and forearm; 3, groin; 4, knee-cap; 5, foot and ankle. Triangular Bandages: 6 and 7, shoulder; 8, upper-arm; 9, hand; 10, leg.}}

'''BAN′DAGE''' (Fr., from ''bande'', a strip, cf. {{NIE article link|Band}}). A strip of woven material used by surgeons to apply pressure on a part, or to retain dressings upon wounds. The most common bandage is a strip of linen, flannel, muslin, or cheese-cloth, from 1 to 5 or more inches in breadth and 10 yards long, rolled longitudinally: the roller bandage. It is applied to a limb in a spiral, each turn overlapping the preceding about one-third of its width and adjusted to tapering or enlarging parts of the limb by reversing the bandage, or turning it back upon itself. It must be applied smoothly, so as to exert even pressure. There are also bandages to suit special purposes, as the four-tailed for the head or knee, which consists of a piece of cloth split up on each side toward and nearly to the centre. When applied, the tails are crossed and tied so as to make an extemporaneous nightcap. In the packets supplied to soldiers of the German Army, and to members of an ambulance corps, as well as to members of ‘first aid to the injured’ societies, are large handkerchiefs, to be used as triangular bandages, slings, or, when folded, short roller bandages. Roller bandages of crinoline, rubbed full of fresh plaster of paris, are used in making plaster splints in case of fracture, etc. They are thoroughly wet first and then applied rapidly.
&lt;section end=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s3&quot; /&gt;'''BANDAI-SAN''', bän'''′'''dī-sän'''′''' (Jap., Bandai mountain). A volcano of Japan, situated near the centre of the island of Nippon (Map: Japan, F 5). It consists of a number of peaks, none of which exceed a height of 6000 feet, situated around an elevated plain, on the northern side of Lake Inawashiro. The last eruption of the volcano occurred on July 15, 1888, when a tremendous mass of earth and rock was thrown out by the explosion of one of the craters, Ko-Bandai-san, and rolled down the mountain slopes into the Nagase Valley, devastating an area of over 27 square miles and destroying 461 people.
&lt;section end=&quot;s3&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s4&quot; /&gt;'''BANDA''' (bän'''′'''dȧ) '''ISLANDS'''. A group of 10 or 12 small islands in the Dutch East Indies, a dependency of the {{NIE article link|Moluccas|nosc=yes}} (q.v.) (Map: Australasia, E 3). The two largest islands are Banda Neira and Banda Lontar, the former the seat of the Resident. Gunong Api is the highest island with an active volcano over 2200 feet above the sea, and constantly emitting smoke. Only a few of the islands are inhabited. Their total area is about 17 square miles, and the main products are nutmeg and mace. The capital is&lt;section end=&quot;s4&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Living Flora of West Virginia and The Fossil Flora of West Virginia.pdf/71</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2724060</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133618</id>
      <parentid>9226790</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:56:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133618</origin>
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47

FUSARIUM Link.
F. cuLMORUM Smith.
On heads of ripe living wheat. Monongalia Co., Laurel
Point (Millspaugh).
&quot;This specimen combines the characters of a number of
so-called species, making it difficult to say which it really
is. Probably they are all forms of one species.&quot; Professor
Peck (in letter).
F. SARCOCHROUM (Desiu.) Sacc.
On Acer Negnndo, April 24, 1894 (Nuttall, 1482, 462).
F. AleURiNUM E. &amp; E., Bull. Torr. Club, 24:476 (1897).
Sporodochia compact, subtuberculiform-effused and subconfluent, reddish-orange, mycelium white; fertile hyphae
erect, ,much branched, branches erect; conidia terminal,
fusoid, slightly curved, continuous or faintly 1-3-septate
nucleate, 35 to 45 x 2.5 to 3 ц.
On wheat flour spilt on the ground and left exposed four
months. Fayette, near Nuttallburg (Nuttall).
F. Oxydendri E. &amp; E. Bull. Torr. Club 24:477 (1897).
Sporodochia tuberculiform, about 1 mm. diameter, slatecolor, subcartilaginous, truncate or concave above, erumpent
through, and closely surrounded by the ruptured epidermis;
hyphae branched, hyaline, nucleolate (olivaceous in the
mass) ; conidia arcuate, nucleate, continuous (as far as
seen), 40 to 60 x 2.5 to 3 ц.
Allied to F. Schweinitzii Ell. &amp; Hark., but that has conidia
oblong, obtuse, 20 to 30 x 6
On Oxydendron arboreum. Fayette, near Nuttallburg,
March, 1896 (Nuttall, 827).
F. ROSEUM Link.
On follicles of Asclepias Syriaca, May 31, 1894. Conidia
55 x 4 ц + 6-septate (Nuttall, 1530, 503).
F. ROSEUM
Var. nov?
On dead fruit of Diospyros Virginicma, Aug., 1895 (Nutt
all, 1831, 721).
F. SoLANi Mart.
Found associated with &quot;black rot&quot; on Tomato fruits that
have fallen to the ground. Monongalia Co., at Morgantown,
1891 (Millspaugh).
F.
sp.
On stems of Asparagus officinalis. Oct. 28, 1893. Color,
light-pink. Conidia oblong to obovate 7.5 to 10 x 2.5 ц '
(Nuttall, 1239, 1248, 185).&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>h4vt02fn8qboneakodmtuumydb4hiz8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Living Flora of West Virginia and The Fossil Flora of West Virginia.pdf/343</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2724391</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133619</id>
      <parentid>9229202</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:57:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133619</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1738" sha1="crp9zxb4ye0pdffj6p9ltn7or55o3sx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Abyssal&quot; /&gt;{{rh||WEST VIRGINIA GEOLOGICAL SURVEY|319}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;WEST VIRGINIA GEOLOGICAL SURVEY
W. LONGiSTYLis (Torr.) Britton.
Rich woods. Monongalia : near Morgantown. Marion :
near Fairmont. Tucker: near Davis. Wirt: above Elizabeth.
ZIZIA Koch.
Z. cordata (Walt.) DC.
River banks.
Fayette: near Nuttallburg (Nuttall).
Greenbrier: near White Sulphur Springs (Eggleston 4345).
Z. aurea (L.) Koch.
Damp places. Monongalia : The Flats, and along the
Monongahela. Marion : near Opekiska! Fayette : near Nuttallburg (Nuttall).
Z. Bebbii (C. &amp; R.) Britton. (Z. aurea, var. Bebbii C. &amp; R.).
Woodlands. Fayette: near Nuttallburg (Nuttall).
Of specimens gathered in Mason, near Pt. Pleasant, Prof.
Coulter says : &quot;Flowers too white, and altogether it does
not quite fit, and is indeterminable on account of the imma
ture fruit.&quot; Greenbrier Co., on Kate's Mountain, alt. 3,300
ft. (Small; Heller 841).
CICUTA L.
C. maculata L. Spotted Cow-bane. Beaver Poison.
Swampy spots, and wet meadows. Randolph : along
Tygart's Valley River plentiful. Fayette : along Loup Creek
(James) ; near Nuttallburg (Nuttall). Putnam: near Scott's
Depot (James). Gilmer: Glenville (Brown) ; near DeKalb
P. O. Morgan : near Cacapon. Monongalia : near Ice's
Ferry. Mason : near Point Pleasant.
C. BULBIFERA L.
Wet places. Mason: near Pt. Pleasant.
DERINGA Adans. (1763).
(Cryptotaenia, DC. 1829).
D. Canadensis (L.) Kuntze. Honewort. (Cryptotaenia Cana
densis (L.) DC).
Shady rocks. Monongalia : Roundbottoms and Little Falls
Marion: near Opekiska. Fayette: near Nuttallburg (Nutt
all). Tucker: rich woods near Parsons (Grcenman 145).
HYDROCOTYLE L.
H. Americana L. Water Pennywort.
Along streams. Jefferson : near Flowing Spring. Ran
dolph : above Cricard P. O. Grant : near Bayard. Green&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>crp9zxb4ye0pdffj6p9ltn7or55o3sx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Living Flora of West Virginia and The Fossil Flora of West Virginia.pdf/277</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2724424</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133621</id>
      <parentid>9229235</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:57:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133621</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2179" sha1="fgryw4radhhd8pd4vp3atxl9vj06imb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Abyssal&quot; /&gt;{{rh||WEST VIRGINIA GEOLOGICAL SURVEY|253}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;WEST VIRGINIA GEOLOGICAL SURVEY

253

the cutting of a few selected trees of other species. It is
noticeable that until these trees reach the age of flowering
and thereafter there is none of the characteristic umbrella
like clustering of the leaves on the axis of the season but
they are strongly alternate and distant. This character con
fuses the species with Magnolia acuminata in the young
large-leaved stage, unless the smoothness or pubescence of
the leaf-buds be noted&quot; (Morris). In Webster county, at
Hacker Valley, this species is replacing &quot;yellow poplar&quot;
where that timber has been removed (H. H. Smith).
M. Fraseri Walt. Ear-leaved Magnolia.
Leaves oblong-obovate or spatulate, auriculate at the base,
glabrous, 8 to 20 in. long ; petals obovate-spatulate, with nar
row claws, 4 in. long. Flower more graceful and cone of
fruit smaller than in the preceding species.
Type locality doubtless in the Alleghanies of West Vir
ginia, where it is abundant and in typical form.
Pocahontas : valley of the East Fork of Greenbrier River
(Greenman, 192). Deep rich mountain woods. Randolph:
on Point Mountain, alt. 3700 ft. (Millspaugh) ; near Pickens
(H. H. Smith, 1945). Webster: on Buffalo Bull Moun
tain, alt. 3400 ft. Nicholas: near Beaver Mills, alt. 2125
ft. Fayette: near Nuttallburg (Nuttall). Summers: near
Hinton. McDowell : near Elkhorn. Mercer : Bluestone Jc.
LIRIODENDRON L.
L. Tulipifera L. Tulip Tree, &quot;White, Yellow, or Hickory Pop
lar.&quot;
Common in rich woods throughout the State. Magnifi
cent trees in Randolph, Pocahontas, Greenbrier, Webster,
Nicholas, and Preston counties. Summers : near Hinton.
Fayette : near Kanawha Falls ; near Nuttallburg, common
(Nuttall). Hardy: near Moorefield (Gamble). Mercer:
near Ingleside.
A N О N А C E A E.
ASIMINA Adans.
A. triloba (L.), Dunal. Papaw.
Rich soil near streams, common. Wood : near Kanawha
Station (MiUspaugh) ; near the mouth of the Little Kana
wha (Michaux). Wirt: along Straight Creek Webster:
Buffalo Bull Mountains, alt. 2100 ft. Nicholas: along Peter
Creek. Fayette : along Gauley River. Kanawha. Putnam
and Mason: along the Great Kanawha. Gilmer: near Glen&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fgryw4radhhd8pd4vp3atxl9vj06imb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Harvard Law Review Volume 9.djvu/359</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2725239</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133231</id>
      <parentid>9230996</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:21:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa, →  Iowa,</comment>
      <origin>15133231</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2574" sha1="l6xh9t2gb2qg0bhp6oweq8amp7xhpon" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|331|''HARVARD LAW REVIEW.''|331}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;FEDERAL RESTRAINTS. 331 
III. 
State Regulation of Interstate Rates of Fare and 
Freight. 
The question of regulation of interstate rates of fare and freight 
by a State first arose in the Granger Cases, so called, decided by 
the Supreme Court in 1876.^ The judges were divided in their 
opinions, Waite, C. J., Clifford, Miller, Bradley, Swayne, Davis, 
and Hunt, JJ., uniting as the majority of the court, and Field and 
Strong constituting the minority. 
The first of the above cases, Chicago, Burlington, &amp; Quincy 
Railroad Co. v. Iowa,^ involved the constitutionality of an act of 
the legislature of Iowa, establishing &quot; reasonable maximum rates 
of charges for the transportation of freight and passengers &quot; over 
the different railroads in Iowa. The complainant in the case 
was the lessee of the Burlington and Missouri River Railroad, 
which was incorporated under the laws of Iowa, and wholly situ- 
ate therein, although it was also engaged in interstate as well as 
intrastate commerce. The question in issue, among others, was 
whether such a statute was necessarily unconstitutional, as being 
in conflict with the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution 
and the powers conferred thereunder upon Congress. The court, 
upon this point, said : — 
&quot; The objection that the statute complained of is void, because it 
amounts to a regulation of commerce among the States, has been suffi- 
ciently considered in the case of Munn v. Illinois [94 U. S. 113]. This 
road, like the warehouse in that case, is situated within the limits of a 
single State. Its business is carried on there, and its regulation is a matter 
of domestic concern. It is employed in State as well as in interstate com- 
merce, and until Congress acts the State must be permitted to adopt such 
rules and regulations as may be necessary for the promotion of the general 
welfare of the people within its own jurisdiction, even though in so doing 
those without may be indirectly affected.&quot; 
That is to say, the broad doctrine was here laid down, that until 
Congress acted the several States had plenary control over the 
1 Chicago, Burlington, &amp; Quincy Railroad Co. v. Iowa, 94 U. S. 155 ; Peik v. Chicago 
&amp; Northwestern Railway Co., 94 U. S. 164; Lawrence v. Chicago &amp; Northwestern 
Railway Co., ib. ; Chicago, Milwaukee, &amp; St. Paul Railroad Co. v. Ackley, 94 U. S. 
179; Winona &amp; St. Peter Railroad Co. v. Blake, 94 U. S. 180; Southern Minnesota 
Railroad Co. v. Coleman, 94 U. S. 181 ; and Stone v. Wisconsin, 94 U. S. 181. 
^94U. S. 155.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>l6xh9t2gb2qg0bhp6oweq8amp7xhpon</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Harvard Law Review Volume 9.djvu/366</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2725246</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133232</id>
      <parentid>9231004</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:21:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa, →  Iowa,</comment>
      <origin>15133232</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2540" sha1="pex0hjbajbakk35pedseerdyb4fgbqe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|338|''HARVARD LAW REVIEW.''|338}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;338 HARVARD LAW REVIEW. 
&quot;Where property has been clothed with a pubhc interest, the legisla- 
ture may fix a limit to that which shall in law be reasonable for its use. 
This limit binds the courts as well as the people. If it has been improp- 
erly fixed, the legislature, not the courts, must be appealed to for the 
change.&quot; 
The doctrine was even more fully illustrated in Chicago, Mil- 
waukee, &amp; St. Paul Railroad Co. v. Ackley.^ Here, the plaintiff, 
a railroad company incorporated in Wisconsin, had sought to 
recover for the transportation of property more than the maxi- 
mum rate fixed by law for freight, by showing that the amount 
charged by the company was no more than a reasonable compen- 
sation for the services rendered, or, in other words, that the maxi- 
mum rate fixed by the State was unreasonable. But such proof 
was held inadmissible, upon the theory that the decision of the 
legislature in the premises was final. 
Ruggles V. Illinois ^ also is authority for a like proposition. It 
was there said : — 
&quot;This implies that, in the absence of direct legislation on the subject, 
the power of the directors over the rates is subject only to the common 
law limitation of reasonableness, for in the absence of a statute, or other 
appropriate indication of the legislative will, the common law forms 
part of the laws of the State to which the corporate by-laws must conform. 
But since, in the absence of some restraining contract, the State may 
establish a maximum of rates to be charged by railroad companies for 
the transportation of persons and property, it follows that, when a maxi- 
mum is so established, the rates fixed by the directors must conform to 
its requirements, otherwise the by-laws will be repugnant to the laws.&quot; 
Justice Harlan concurred, but based his opinion upon other 
grounds, for he plainly was of opinion that the legislative deter- 
mination of the question of reasonableness was not properly con- 
clusive. Judge Field concurred, only because there was no proof 
made that the rate prescribed by the legislature was unreasonable, 
and, in the absence of proof, the presumption was that it was 
reasonable. 
Furthermore, it was decided, in Chicago, Burlington, &amp; Quincy 
Railroad Co. v. Iowa,^ that this right of regulation in the State 
was not lost by non-user; in Ruggles v, Illinois,^ that the grant 
away by a State of such a right was never to be presumed; and 
1 94 U. S. 179. » 94 U. S. 155. 
■« 108 U. S. 526. * 108 U. S. 526.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pex0hjbajbakk35pedseerdyb4fgbqe</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Harvard Law Review Volume 9.djvu/369</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2725250</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133233</id>
      <parentid>9231009</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:21:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa, →  Iowa,</comment>
      <origin>15133233</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2901" sha1="snzmn3rzm6znlfetz0ygl505l9ljw80" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|341|''HARVARD LAW REVIEW.''|341}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;FEDERAL RESTRAINTS. 341 
or property is a legislative or administrative rather than a judicial func- 
tion. Yet it has always been recognized, that, if a carrier attempted to 
charge a shipper an unreasonable sum, the courts had jurisdiction to 
inquire into that matter, and to award to the shipper any amount exacted 
from him in excess of a reasonable rate ; and also in a reverse case to 
render judgment in favor of the carrier for the amount found to be a rea- 
sonable charge. The province of the courts is not changed, nor the limit 
of judicial inquiry altered, because the legislature instead of the carrier 
prescribes the rates. [But see Chicago, Burlington, &amp; Quincy Railroad 
Co. V. Iowa, 94 U. S. 155, and Chicago, Milwaukee, &amp; St. Paul Railroad 
Co. V. Ackley, 94 U. S. 179.] The courts are not authorized to revise 
or change the body of rates imposed by a legislature or a commis- 
sion ; they do not determine whether one rate is preferable to another, 
or what under all circumstances would be fair and reasonable as between 
the carriers and the shippers ; they do not engage in any mere adminis- 
trative work ; but still there can be no doubt of their power and duty to 
inquire whether a body of rates prescribed by a legislature or a commis- 
sion is unjust and unreasonable, and such as to work a practical destruc- 
tion to rights of property, and, if found so to be, to restrain its operation.&quot; 
The same principle was also upheld in St. Louis &amp; San Fran- 
cisco Railway Co. v. G} where the court says: — 
&quot;This court has declared, in several cases, that there is a remedy in 
the courts for relief against legislation establishing a tariff of rates which 
is so unreasonable as to practically destroy the value of property of 
companies engaged in the carrying business, and that especially may the 
courts of the United States treat such a question as a judicial one, and 
hold such acts of legislation to be in conflict with the Constitution of the 
United States, as depriving the companies of their property without due 
process of law, and as depriving them of the equal protection of the 
laws. Railroad Commission Cases, 116 U. S. 307, 331 ; Dow v. Beidel- 
man, 125 U. S. 681 ; Chicago, Milwaukee, &amp;c. Railway v. Minnesota, 134 
U. S. 418; Chicago &amp; Grand Trunk Railway v. Wellman, 143 U. S. 339; 
Reagan v. Farmers' Loan &amp; Trust Co., 154 U. S. 362.&quot; 
And it was further decided, that the question of unreasonableness 
must be determined by the effects of the regulation by the State 
upon the earnings of the entire line of railroad within the State, as 
against all its legitimate expenses therein. 
Secondly, with regard to the provisions of the Constitution relat- 
ing to impairment of contracts by legislation of a State. 
In Chicago, Burlington, &amp; Quincy Railroad Co. v. Iowa,^ the 
1 156 U. S. 649. * 2 94 U. S. 155.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>snzmn3rzm6znlfetz0ygl505l9ljw80</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Mind (Old Series) Volume 11.djvu/393</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2737525</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133258</id>
      <parentid>9254513</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:26:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: BKAL → ERAL</comment>
      <origin>15133258</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1415" sha1="413qgy0nhuaf7y8krd83934ttpc8btb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;392 J. M. CATTELL : TIME TAKEN BY CEEEBKAL OPERATIONS. 
TABLE XXVII. 
HAND. 
SOUND-KEY. 
B 
c 
B 
C 
R 
R' 
R 
R' 
R 
R' 
R 
R' 
6. IV. 
7 
Mind... 
Life 
Time.... 
House... 
Child... 
266 
302 
307 
299 
282 
269 
292 
303 
296 
284 
312 
340 
325 
321 
327 
306 
340 
330 
317 
322 
14. II. 
19 
Mind.. 
Life 
311 
338 
319 
317 
320 
307 
333 
326 
318 
326 
380 
400 
360 
339 
361 
391 
409 
364 
345 
367 
24 
26 
Child... 
Truth... 
Ship 
8 
A 
291 
289 
325 
323 
321 
322 
368 
375 
AV 
18 
10 
22 
14 
27 
19 
25 
16 
False.... 
5 

3 
4 
TABLE XXVIII. 
Picture 
of a 
B 
C 
R 
V 
R' 
V 
R 
V 
R' 
V 
HAND. 
12. II... 
20. III.. 
24 
Watch 
262 
264 
271 
297 
246 
289 
290 
267 
270 
283 
23 
19 
17 
20 
12 
28 
19 
12 
28 
17 
19 
249 
268 
266 
294 
244 
297 
293 
265 
277 
286 
15 
13 
11 
15 
7 
15 
17 
9 
22 
12 
295 
324 
313 
282 
296 
310 
301 
321 
306 
341 
21 
31 
24 
37 
28 
43 
23 
31 
21 
23 
292 
320 
316 
266 
302 
891 
294 
317 
312 
346 
14 
16 
9 
10 
23 
10 
13 
26 
10 
18 
Ship 
Eye 
Hand.... 
Tree 
Bird 
Fish 
Leaf 
Hat 
Shoe... 
A 
274 
274 
14 
309 
28 
306 
15 
False 
8 
8 
SOUND -KEY. 
17. II 
Watch 
308 
341 
283 
309 
305 
32 
30 
27 
38 
42 
302 
336 
878 
315 
296 
14 
25 
17 
22 
24 
364 
408 
374 
304 
367 
44 
40 
32 
23 
59 
357 
408 
361 
896 
348 
34 
25 
17 
15 
36 
19 
21 
24 
Eye 
Tree 
Fish 
26 
Hat 
A 
309 
34 
305 
20 
363 
40 
354 
25 
False 
2 
2&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>413qgy0nhuaf7y8krd83934ttpc8btb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133259</id>
      <parentid>15133258</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:26:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>additional scannos</comment>
      <origin>15133259</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1415" sha1="nwgg135d2lsnkhr8i92rfrnuu372qgj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;392 J. M. CATTELL : TIME TAKEN BY CEREBRAL OPERATIONS. 
TABLE XXVII. 
HAND. 
SOUND-KEY. 
B 
c 
B 
C 
R 
R' 
R 
R' 
R 
R' 
R 
R' 
6. IV. 
7 
Mind... 
Life 
Time.... 
House... 
Child... 
266 
302 
307 
299 
282 
269 
292 
303 
296 
284 
312 
340 
325 
321 
327 
306 
340 
330 
317 
322 
14. II. 
19 
Mind.. 
Life 
311 
338 
319 
317 
320 
307 
333 
326 
318 
326 
380 
400 
360 
339 
361 
391 
409 
364 
345 
367 
24 
26 
Child... 
Truth... 
Ship 
8 
A 
291 
289 
325 
323 
321 
322 
368 
375 
AV 
18 
10 
22 
14 
27 
19 
25 
16 
False.... 
5 

3 
4 
TABLE XXVIII. 
Picture 
of a 
B 
C 
R 
V 
R' 
V 
R 
V 
R' 
V 
HAND. 
12. II... 
20. III.. 
24 
Watch 
262 
264 
271 
297 
246 
289 
290 
267 
270 
283 
23 
19 
17 
20 
12 
28 
19 
12 
28 
17 
19 
249 
268 
266 
294 
244 
297 
293 
265 
277 
286 
15 
13 
11 
15 
7 
15 
17 
9 
22 
12 
295 
324 
313 
282 
296 
310 
301 
321 
306 
341 
21 
31 
24 
37 
28 
43 
23 
31 
21 
23 
292 
320 
316 
266 
302 
891 
294 
317 
312 
346 
14 
16 
9 
10 
23 
10 
13 
26 
10 
18 
Ship 
Eye 
Hand.... 
Tree 
Bird 
Fish 
Leaf 
Hat 
Shoe... 
A 
274 
274 
14 
309 
28 
306 
15 
False 
8 
8 
SOUND -KEY. 
17. II 
Watch 
308 
341 
283 
309 
305 
32 
30 
27 
38 
42 
302 
336 
878 
315 
296 
14 
25 
17 
22 
24 
364 
408 
374 
304 
367 
44 
40 
32 
23 
59 
357 
408 
361 
896 
348 
34 
25 
17 
15 
36 
19 
21 
24 
Eye 
Tree 
Fish 
26 
Hat 
A 
309 
34 
305 
20 
363 
40 
354 
25 
False 
2 
2&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Journal of English and Germanic Philology Volume 18.djvu/192</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2740791</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133630</origin>
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      <text bytes="2593" sha1="3hbfup51grcr8aexxyu72gl2h9fctlh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;186 Whitford 
undertaking to shadow forth the critical judgment of formal 
satire with regard to English literature in the days of the 
&quot;romantic revolt&quot; lies not in discovering an appreciable body 
of critical opinion but in selecting from a great mass of more 
or less casual comments the material which is fairly representa- 
tive and which at the same time concerns authors and works 
not absolutely insignificant. Some of the best satire has to do 
with writers whose influence in the history of literature was 
quite negligible; for example, the poets of the Anti- Jacobin 
outdid themselves in their mockery of two didactic poets of the 
old school, Erasmus Darwin and Richard Payne Knight. 
Some scattered observations about writers of historical impor- 
tance, far from being typical of the conservative group which 
satire commonly represents, were not even consistent with 
other opinions expressed by their own authors; such were, for 
instance, Mathias' bits of praise for Mrs. Radcliffe. 80 In the 
case of the sentimental poets, it is particularly difficult to dis- 
cover whether this or that rhymester was important enough to 
make satirical criticism of him worth mentioning. On that 
account, satire's view of sentimentalism off the stage may, for 
the sake of comparative brevity, be considered under three 
heads: criticism of the Bath-easton coterie and their associates, 
criticism of the Delia Cruscans and their associates, criticism of 
the Bluestockings. 81 This classification makes it possible to 
80 Mathias, who was something of a romanticist himself in spite of his 
conventionality, praised The Mysteries of Udolpho &quot;bred and nourished by the 
Florentine Muses in their sacred solitary caverns, amid the paler shrines of 
Gothic superstition, and in all the dreariness of inchantment. &quot; But he had 
JBL dislike for terror novels in general: 
&quot;Shall nought but ghosts and trinkets be display'd; 
Since Walpole play'd the virtuoso's trade, 
Bade sober truth revers'd for fiction pass, 
And mus'd o'er Gothic toys through Gothic glass?&quot; 
The Pursuits of Literature, 56-57, 336. 
81 These categories exclude comment upon the &quot;ladies' poet,&quot; Hayley, 
whose Triumphs of Temper (1781) went through many editions. He was 
attacked by Peter Pindar for his sentimentalism and the injustice of his critical 
work for the Gentleman's Magazine. Peter's imitator, Matthew Bramble, 
made sweet mock of Hayley in a &quot; New Probationary Ode. &quot; The Rev. Richard 
Polwhele smiled at him in The Unsex'd Females (1798). And Byron laughed 
at him in English Bards.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Journal of English and Germanic Philology Volume 18.djvu/198</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2740797</id>
    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:02:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133631</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1935" sha1="riog0fss7x9cwu550hbjj4z9gevtqb9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;192 Whitford 
The leader of the group, Robert Merry, surnamed &quot;Delia 
Crusca&quot; because he had been elected to membership in the 
Accademia della Crusca of Florence, seems to have been only 
half in earnest in writing the amorous nonsense which made up 
his contributions to The Poetry of the World. y And yet those 
verses found honest admirers. Even among the satirists, one, 
the author of The Children of Apollo, who considered Merry as 
a playwright as well as a poet, ventured to commend his senti- 
mental rhymes: 
As then your lays are to the soft inclin'd, 
Oh! why attempt those of the comic kind? 
As in the plaintive you're surpassing very, 
Oh Merry, Merry, wherefore art thou Merry? 96 
Delia Cruscan sentimentalism was amusingly mocked in 
one of the &quot;New Probationary Odes&quot; which were collected by 
A. M'Donald (&quot; Matthew Bramble&quot;) and published together 
in 1790. The typography of this good natured parody is, as 
the prefatory note explains, a part of the fun: 
The candid reader will observe, that, according to the method adopted by 
this order of Poets, we have taken the liberty to print the passages of most 
peculiar beauty in a different type, that they may not be negligently overlooked. 
The burlesque conceits display a rather happy wit. A pleasant 
passage runs: 
What can escape thy rage, OH TIME? 
THE ROSE, the garden's princely prime, 
That round its sweets so freely throws, 
And gives such transports to THE NOSE, 
must die, for the Caterpillar kills it, 
And fearless of THE MUSE'S SNUB, 
Remorseless triumphs o'er the martyr'd shrub, 91 
Thereafter, in a gush of sweet sentiment, the poet recommends 
Della Crusca for the post of Poet Laureat. 
A somewhat similar arraignment of the Della Cruscan 
affectation was Southey's in The Amatory Poems of Abel Shuffle- 
95 A collection of Della Cruscan verse (London, 1788). 
96 The Children of Apollo, 27. 
97 Works of A. M'Donald, 80.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Journal of English and Germanic Philology Volume 18.djvu/237</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2740835</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133643</id>
      <parentid>9260873</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:07:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133643</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2480" sha1="fhg3tbrr8vimfgsnhx8leo5smggbb4w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;Sir Thomas More&quot; 231 
theory. One is, that the only interference in the Mundy portion 
of the play is of a trivial character, being made by B, apparently 
in the capacity of supervisor. His serious revision was confined 
to his own portion of the play. The other fact in favor of my 
view is that it deprives Mundy of the glorification of More for 
his adherence to the Romanist faith. That so bitter an anti- 
Romanist as Mundy should have written that portion of the 
play does not seem to me probable. I must, however, in fairness 
mention three circumstances that tell, if not against my view 
as a whole at least against my division of the work amongst 
the various authors. The first is, that there are two versions of 
a portion of the final scene, both in the handwriting of Mundy, 
though, according to me, the authorship is that of B. The 
second is, that the ejaculations are tolerably uniform, so that 
we find, on my division, Mundy, A, B, and Shakspere all using 
&quot; 'Fore God&quot; or &quot; Afore God&quot; or &quot;Before God,&quot; and Mundy, 
A, and B all using &quot;A' God's name&quot; or &quot;In God's name.&quot; 
The third is, that the spirit of a passage in IV 5 &quot;I have 
bethought me, and I'll now satisfy the King's good pleasure. 
. . . Oh, pardon me: I will subscribe to go unto the Tower&quot; 
is closely paralleled in IV 4 of &quot;Oldcastle&quot; &quot;I see my error; 
but yet understand me: I mean not error in the faith I hold.&quot; 
The resemblance between these two passages is not verbal: 
it is to be found in the mental attitude of the speakers; and, as 
Mundy is known to have been one of the authors of &quot; Old- 
castle,&quot; this may be thought to indicate Mundy's responsibility 
for both scenes; but they do not seem to me to be from the 
one hand. (I may add that I regard Mundy's share of &quot;Old- 
castle&quot; as confined to IV 3, V 9, from Lee's entry, and the 
final scene.) 
The question of date is important. The character of Shak- 
spere's work seems to call for an early date; but Dekker as a 
dramatic writer cannot with certainty be traced back beyond 
1597-8, though he may possibly have been writing in 1595-6, 
when a &quot;Fortunatus&quot; was performed. I should say then that 
Dekker's presence is a sure sign that the play was not written 
before 1598, as he would hardly have been taken into partner- 
ship with Mundy and two other presumably established drama- 
tists until he had proved his quality; and my conclusion on this 
score is amply borne out by my examination of the various&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Journal of English and Germanic Philology Volume 18.djvu/255</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2740853</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133639</id>
      <parentid>9260892</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:06:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133639</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1184" sha1="jfyxsb7b88i6p2aul0d0p0b42q7f8p9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;The Rythmical Line 249 
in close reciprocal relations with the dance and music, can be 
taken as the earliest form of rhythmical poetical utterance. 
&quot;At a more advanced stage of primitive culture we find, as the 
result of joint labor, the work-song whose melody and rhythm 
are determined by the labor In the work-song it is the con- 
stantly recurring rhythm of the work that tends directly to 
the repetition of the rhythmic and melodic motives The 
musical element of speech, at this stage, is the refrain. One 
might say, without qualification, that the poetic form of speech 
began with the refrain.&quot; It seems correct to say that the 
rhythmical form of poetry is not a self-generated phenomenon 
of language; it received its regular and rhythmical form from 
early close relation with music and the dance. Such views as 
these are not the result of speculative theorizing; they rest on 
the investigations of ethnology and folk-psychology. At the 
bottom of all the conscious rhythmical activities lies pleasure 
in rhythmical motion. &quot;The earliest aesthetic stimuli are 
symmetry and rhythm.&quot; 

[[Author|Ph. Seibreth|Ph. Seibreth.]]
Washington University.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133641</id>
      <parentid>15133639</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:07:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133641</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1184" sha1="9z91wwhm0priskyyhiuokqvz9s5zvw6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;The Rythmical Line 249 
in close reciprocal relations with the dance and music, can be 
taken as the earliest form of rhythmical poetical utterance. 
&quot;At a more advanced stage of primitive culture we find, as the 
result of joint labor, the work-song whose melody and rhythm 
are determined by the labor In the work-song it is the con- 
stantly recurring rhythm of the work that tends directly to 
the repetition of the rhythmic and melodic motives The 
musical element of speech, at this stage, is the refrain. One 
might say, without qualification, that the poetic form of speech 
began with the refrain.&quot; It seems correct to say that the 
rhythmical form of poetry is not a self-generated phenomenon 
of language; it received its regular and rhythmical form from 
early close relation with music and the dance. Such views as 
these are not the result of speculative theorizing; they rest on 
the investigations of ethnology and folk-psychology. At the 
bottom of all the conscious rhythmical activities lies pleasure 
in rhythmical motion. &quot;The earliest aesthetic stimuli are 
symmetry and rhythm.&quot; 

[[Author:Ph. Seibreth|Ph. Seibreth.]]
Washington University.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Journal of English and Germanic Philology Volume 18.djvu/282</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133644</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2247" sha1="c97yi6lyuy8tfm44use3ti8awfc4gkt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;276 Goebel 
identified with the &quot; highest energy&quot; elucidates still further his 
conception of the manifestation of the divine in this phenome- 
non. Speaking of the extreme satisfaction which Hegel's 
approval of his theory of colors had given him he says: &quot;Und 
hierdurch war mir vollkommen vergonnt das geheimeiswll klare 
Licht, ah die hochste Energie, ewig, einzig und unteilbar zu 
betrachten.&quot; 1 * 
What Goethe here is permitted to perceive is one of the 
&quot;primal phenomena&quot; (Urphanomene) as he calls certain 
physical and ethical phenomena, because &quot;nothing lies above 
them that becomes visible, and beyond them the mind cannot 
penetrate. &quot; Instead of going into a detailed discussion of this 
important conception of Goethe's later years, a few pertinent 
passages from his writings and conversations may suffice to 
illuminate the significance which Goethe attached to the 
Urphanomen. 
&quot;Das Hochste wozu der Mensch gelangen kann, &quot; he said 
to Eckermann, &quot;ist das Erstaunen; und wenn ihn das Urphano- 
men in Erstaunen setzt, so sei er zufrieden; ein Hoheres kann 
es ihm nicht gewahren, und ein Weiteres soil er nicht dahinter 
suchen; hier ist die Grenze. &quot; 14 Nevertheless, in another pas- 
sage of Eckermann's Conversations, 15 we are told that it is in 
reality the deity which is concealed behind them and which 
manifests itself in them. &quot;Der Verstand reicht nur zur Natur 
hinauf, der Mensch muss fahig sein, sich zur hochsten Vernunft 
erheben zu konnen, um an die Gottheit zu ruhren, die sich in 
Urphanomenen, physischen wie sittlichen, offenbart, hinter 
denen sie sich halt und die von ihr ausgehen.&quot; 
There is no question in my mind that Faust in the present 
scene finds himself face to face with the Urphanomen of eternal 
light and the lines 4702-4715 present in sublime poetic diction 
what Goethe, the scientist, expressed in the following words: 
&quot; Wir sind aber schon weit genug gegen die Natur vorgedrung- 
en, wenn wir zu den Urphanomenen gelangen, welche wir in 
ihrer unerforschlichen Herrlichkeit von Angesicht zu Angesicht 
anschauen und uns sodann wieder ruckwarts in die Welt der 
Annalen, Wetke XXVII, 234 (H). 
14 Gesprache mil Goethe, Eckermann, Febr. 18, 1829. 
15 13 Februar, 1829.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Journal of English and Germanic Philology Volume 18.djvu/464</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2741050</id>
    <revision>
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      <contributor>
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        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133625</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1944" sha1="liolmzie0tk62arx7llt8jvflj5vbi3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;460 Alden 
C. G. Child: &quot;The Rise of the Heroic Play,&quot; Mod. Lang. 
Notes, 19:166 (1904). 
J. W. Tupper: &quot;The Relation of the Heroic Play to the 
Romances of Beaumont and Fletcher,&quot; Pub. Mod. Lang. Assn., 
20:584 (1905). 
F. and J. W. Tupper: Representative English Dramas from 
Dryden to Sheridan (N. Y., 1914). 
R. M. Alden (as above under French criticism). 
R. M. Alden: &quot;The Decline of Poetic Justice,&quot; Atlantic 
Mo., 105:260 (1910). 
On Dryden (p. 176): 
G. R. Noyes: Selected Dramas of John Dryden (Chicago, 
1910). [Important introduction on Dry den's dramatic theory.] 
On Rymer (p. 205): 
T. R. Lounsbury (as above under English drama and criti- 
cism). 
G. B. Dutton: &quot;The French Aristotelian Formalists and 
Thomas Rymer,&quot; Pub. Mod. Lang. Assn., 29:152 (1914). 
On Addison (p. 227): 
W. B. Worsfold: The Principles of Criticism (London, 1902). 
On German drama (p. 254): 
H. Hettner: Literaturgeschichte des 18n Jahrhunderts (Braun- 
schweig, 1881). 
On 18th century French literature (p. 272): 
H. Hettner (as above). 
On modern German drama and criticism (p. 315): 
J. Minor: Die S chicks alstr ago die in ihren Hauptvertretern 
(Frankfort, 1883). 
J. Krumm: Die Tragodie Hebbels (Hebbel-Forschungen, III, 
1908). 
G. Pollak: Grillparzer and the Austrian Drama (N. Y., 1907). 
O. E. Lessing: Grillparzer und das Neue Drama (Miinchen, 
1905). 
L. H. Allen: Three Plays by Frederic Hebbel (Everyman's 
Library, 1914). 
On Schiller (p. 317): 
E. Kuhnemann: Schiller; trans. K. Royce (Boston, 1912). 
W. Deike: Schiller s Ansichten iiber die tragische Kunst 
(Helmstedt, 1891). 
U. Gaede : Schiller und Nietzsche als Verkunder der tragischen 
Kultur (Berlin, 1908). 
G. Buyers: &quot;The Influence of Schiller's Drama upon English 
Literature, 1780-1830,&quot; Eng. Stud., 48:349 (1915). 
On Goethe (p. 325): 
J. Dunster: &quot;Goethes Ansicht iiber das Wesen der Trago- 
die,&quot; Goethe Jahrbuch, 3:132 (1882). 
On Freytag (p. 354):&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Journal of English and Germanic Philology Volume 18.djvu/460</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2741056</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133627</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:00:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133627</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2985" sha1="2yrc3vv3cpd9ih30yvhawujqxp7ebhf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;456 Alden 
literature), and it is extraordinary that he should have chosen 
to take his texts of Dryden, Addison, Coleridge, and Hazlitt 
from the &quot;Everyman's Library,&quot; when standard critical texts 
of these authors are so readily accessible. Fortunately, these 
are just the authors for which the trained reader will not need 
his book. 

The choice of critical specimens in the minor field is almost 
a matter de gustibus: but in general, as I have intimated, it 
seems to be as acceptable as could be hoped for. A few omissions 
might be agreed upon as regrettable. The general plan of the 
volume making no provision for criticism in the Scandinavian 
or Slavic literatures, one misses what would otherwise have 
certainly demanded a place; for example, significant extracts 
from the letters of Ibsen and from both letters and other writ- 
ings of Tolstoy, Strindberg's exceedingly significant Preface to 
Miss Julia, and Sologub's discussion of &quot;The Theatre of One 
Will.&quot; Again, if we are to have such comparatively trifling 
material as the fragment of Donatus and the passage from 
'Sebilet, it should seem that we ought to have something from 
Heinsius' influential work on tragedy (which Mr. Clark duly 
notices in his general survey). For the 17th century we should 
have a specimen from Rapin, who furnishes some individually 
interesting passages, and whose influence on Dryden makes 
him of special significance to English readers. If Rymer is 
represented for his &quot;View of Tragedy,&quot; John Dennis might well 
have a page or so for his. One would like to see the solemnity of 
Addison and Johnson relieved by Fielding's Preface to Tom 
Thumb the Great, with its suggestive burlesque of conventional 
dramatic criticism; and it is a pity to include Johnson without 
the best general passages from the Preface to Shakespeare. To 
Lamb's brief account of Restoration comedy should certainly 
be added a part of his remarkable essay on the Tragedies of 
Shakespeare, with its profound if paradoxical analysis of 
the relation of drama as read to drama on the stage. Of Shake- 
speare criticism one cannot insist on any full representation, 
since that would be a subject for a book by itself; yet if Coleridge 
is to be allowed place for specific interpretations of The Tempest 
and Othello, there should also be room for a selection from A. C. 
Bradley's Shakespearean Tragedy, the finest work in its field 
since Coleridge's day. Mr. Clark found no Italian criticism 
since Goldoni which demanded representation, but he would 
have done well to include a passage from (or, more certainly, 
to mention) Mazzini's interesting essay on &quot;Fatality as an 
Element of Dramatic Art. &quot; Another page would have allowed 
room for the significant portion of Schiller's Preface to The 
Bride of Messina, with its important account of the function 
of the tragic chorus. Finally, and perhaps most important, 
the omission of any selection from HebbePs epochal prefaces&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Journal of English and Germanic Philology Volume 18.djvu/465</title>
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      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133624</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2217" sha1="olvkaewr8y2xxgjijg32aqtlcfkmcgh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Reviews and Notes 461 
E. Woodbridge : The Drama, Us Laws and Technique (Bos- 
ton, 1898). [Based on Freytag.] 
On 19th century English drama (p. 421): 
S. C. Chew: The Dramas of Lord Byron (Gottingen and 
Baltimore, 1915). 
A. Pudbres: &quot; Byron the Admirer and Imitator of Alfieri,&quot; 
Eng. Stud., 33:40 (1903). 
E. E. Hale: Dramatists of Today (N. Y v 1905). 
On Coleridge (p. 423) : 
J. Shawcross, edition of Biographia Literaria and jEsthetical 
Essays (Oxford, 1907). 
On Hazlitt (p. 441): 
A. Birrell: William Hazlitt (London, 1902). 
J. Zeitlin: Hazlitt on English Literature (N. Y., 1913). 
Finally, I note a few errata; in general the proof-reader 
and printer have done their work well. 
Pp. 3,, 4 (under Christ and Welcker). Read griechischen for 
grieschischen. 
P. 27 (under Schanz). Read Liter of ur for Literature. 
P. 42 (under Wessner). Read: Aeli Donati quod fertur 
commentum Terenti. 
P. 54, note. Read &quot;Lander&quot; for &quot;Leander.&quot; 
P. 60, line 39. Read comicis for comics. 
P. 99, note. 4. Read Sophonisba for Sophronisba. 
P. 100. The reference &quot;9&quot; has no corresponding note. 
P. 101, last line. Read &quot;Thorndike&quot; for &quot;Thorndyke.&quot; 
P. 102, last line. Read &quot;G. Gregory Smith&quot; for &quot;F. 
Gregory Smith.&quot; 
P. 172, col. 2, line 31. Read &quot;eighteenth century&quot; for 
&quot;seventeenth century.&quot; 
P. 204, col. 1, line 10 from end. Read Feeder a for Fcedora. 
P. 315, line 17. Read &quot;Boyesen&quot; for &quot;Boyeser.&quot; 

[[Author:Raymond Macdonald Alden|Raymond Macdonald Alden]]

Leland Stanford Jr. University. 
CURRENTS AND EDDIES IN THE ENGLISH ROMAN- 
TIC GENERATION. By Frederick E. Pierce. New 
Haven: Yale University Press. 342 pages. $3.00. 
Professor Pierce's book is itself an interesting illustration of 
that group activity in literature which is its special subject. 
In devoting himself to the romantic generation he has fallen 
in with what is almost old enough to be called a Yale tradition. 
His contribution has been modified by .the increasingly critical 
temper of the Zeitgeist, and perhaps by incalculable personal 
factors. The relation of his work to that of Professor Beers and 
to the supplementary study of Professor Phelps is partly sug- 
gested by the title but not wholly disclosed.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>olvkaewr8y2xxgjijg32aqtlcfkmcgh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Oregon Historical Quarterly vol. 9.djvu/71</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2763993</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133275</id>
      <parentid>9296799</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:30:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa, →  Iowa,</comment>
      <origin>15133275</origin>
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      <text bytes="2184" sha1="nz4ic7c4qpq6jjgzk3az57mvko10u8k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Political Beginnings in Oregon. 59 
The leading spirit of the legislature of 1845 was Jesse 
Applegate, an extremely conservative man; his object was to 
make as few changes as possible in the original organic laws. 
After several meetings, the legislature decided that it was 
without power to act until the people had approved of their 
proceedings. Accordingly they adjourned until an election 
could be held, and the people informed. Manuscript copies^^ 
of the original laws of July 5, 1843, of the amended laws, 
and a schedule declaring the Legislature and Governor elected 
in June to be the officers to carry the amended organic laws 
into effect, were sent to each polling place, to be read three 
times to the voters. If the people adopted the last two, the 
Legislature could proceed to formulate a code suited to the 
wants of the colony. 
According to Gray, many voted against the compact because 
the Legislature was allowed to regulate the introduction, man- 
ufacture and sale of intoxicating liquors. Others because the 
servants of the Hudson's Bay Company were not admitted to 
equal privileges with themselves. Notwithstanding the oppo- 
sition, in the special election of July 26, 1845, a majority 
voted in favor of the organic law as amended. By this action, 
the Methodist Mission and the Hudson's Bay Company ceased 
to be political powers, either to be feared or courted. 
The first law passed by the authorized legislature was one 
to prevent duelling.^^ Early in the session a bill was passed 
adopting the statutes of Iowa,^^ so far as they were applica- 
ble to the circumstances of the country. The reasons for 
adopting the Iowa laws are evident. In the first place, there 
was but one copy of the Iowa code in Oregon, and so far as 
we have been able to find out, there was no other copy of any 
kind of a code within reach of the legislators, and ignorant 
of modes of legal procedure as they were, it was necessary 
that they have some guide. Moreover, Iowa was a new State, 
and the one nearest to Oregon. Like Oregon, she had passed 
22 Grover, Oregon Archives, p. 88. 
23 Grover, Oregon Archives, p. 90. 
24 Grover, Oregon Archives, pp. 100-102.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nz4ic7c4qpq6jjgzk3az57mvko10u8k</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Archaeological Journal, Volume 29.djvu/144</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2807652</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132773</id>
      <parentid>9384154</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:52:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tlii →  thi,  tho  →  the  (2), ORTK → ORTE</comment>
      <origin>15132773</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3016" sha1="0lsnaesc799obgxvwwarcs4guzysu2r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;lU ANCIENT PORTRAITURES OF OUR LORD. 
emerald the Emperor of the Turks afterwards gave out of 
the Treasury of Constantinople to Pope Innocent Vlll. for the 
redemption of his brother taken captive by the Christians,&quot; 
On the lower margin of the plate is inscribed, — &quot; Drawn 
from an ancient ta})estry in the possession of the publisher, 
3[r. Sam. Bagster, Paternoster Row.&quot; The plate was acci- 
dentally destroyed, as I was informed by Mr. J. Bagster, in 
1851 ; he stated that the tapestry had been in his father's 
possession. An inferior reproduction of the print above 
described has subsequently been in the market. Of pre- 
cisely the same type, and probably from one of the engrav- 
ings above mentioneil. a small oval photograph has been 
recently taken, entitled, &quot;A true likeness of our Saviour,&quot; 
and stated as above to have been from the emerald. •' 
It will be noticed that here the alleged origin of the gem 
as having been derived from the ancient treasury of the 
Empire of the East, a fact not found in any of the inscriptions 
on the numerous j)aintcd portraitures, described in the present 
notices, is found to be asserted on the representation of this 
interesting relic of ancient textile art in Mr. Bagster's 
possession. 
AVith these reproductions of the profile portraiture may 
be mentioned an old painting on panel, possibly from a 
(lifferent type, which in 1S55 was in possession of Mr. 
Ivors] ake, a well-known bookseller at Bristol ; it was a half- 
length portrait inscribed thus : — &quot;This pictur is the similitude 
of our Lord Jesus Clii-ist as he did walke upon the earth, and 
was .sent by Publius Lcntullus to Tiberius Claudius Enijierour 
of Home under whom Christ did suller.&quot; Didron, in his 
Icoiogra})hie Clii'/tienne, it may be remend)ored, observes 
that Constantino had causo&lt;l j»ortraits of the Saviour to be 
painted, aft(;r the do.scription given hv Lintulus, whose 
remaikable epistle, alleged to have boon adlrossed to the 
Senate, will there be found.' The learned l'-ibricius informs 
* ThU photograph mny probnUy hnvo iiiontinn of iIk- cinorald given to the 
Ijfcn rcproiliiccd from a miikiII fulio m- I'opn. Londun, putjliHliod July 0, 1SG9, 
gra'ifi;(, pidfliMlie&lt;l hkiuc yi-.-irn ago liy liy Willinin I,iu-.ih and C&quot;., 17, (jrcat 
MfMMrH. McLean. Moru n'&lt;;&lt;ntly a U^aii- r«&gt;rtlanil Strout. 
tifiil plato liax }»con exoniNil, lliat «p% ' Didron, lc(»n()gra|ihio. j». 220. See 
[Minro U) r&lt;*prrMlii(^) the iM-aiitifid type nf nlno Pabriciim, (Jodi'x Apocrj'pliuH Novi 
the tajxrHtry in Uchhih. liagxtcr'M pnnMi-M- Ti'Ht-iMu'nti, j). 30'_' ; llainlmrgi, 17il!). A 
nion. Tho lniHt in in an oval compart- trunHlation will lio found in MrH. Jamo- 
mi^nt, Hiirroiindod l»y an «rlalioral4! franm hou'h llintory «)f Our Lord, V4)|. i. p. ;{.'», 
fif ornartK-nLal work, rni-OHiiring 1'] in. liy Mi. Kiii^ mcntioni'd thin [topnlar It'guiid. 
}l. I!un&lt;;itli in writlun, &quot;Tho Only Arch. Jonrn., vol. xxvii. p. I&gt;i5. 
Tnio rortrnitun*/' Ac, with the imua!&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0lsnaesc799obgxvwwarcs4guzysu2r</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Archaeological Journal, Volume 11.djvu/392</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2808840</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133204</id>
      <parentid>14404465</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:16:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: ORTEE → ORTER</comment>
      <origin>15133204</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2165" sha1="aaedeor6hepupr6buo592602hnz96rw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;DESCRIPTION OF THE ANCIENT HILL FORTRESS OF 
ULEYBUEY. 
It seems desirable to append to the preceding description 
of the Tump on CraAvley llill, a further sliort account of the 
fine fortress called Ulevburv, from recent examination, in 
addition to that given at page 324. 
This intrenchment is placed upon, and occupies the wjiole 
of the top of a lofty oolite hill situated just above the village 
of Uley, and connected by only a narrow neck with the 
adjoining higher elevation named Cra^Yley Hill. The fortifi- 
cation was made by taking advantage of the steep slope of 
the hill and it consists of a narrow terrace of about seven 
feet in width, placed at a variable distance, but usually about 
sixty feet down the steep slope ; and of a low rampart made 
of loose stones covered with turf ])laced Just on the verge of 
the descent, and backed by a broad nearly level space of 
about 45 feet in width, which is bounded internally by a 
short ascent to the level top of the hill. These works have 
extended all i-ound the enclosure, although in parts the 
steepness of the hill has rendered the lower terrace rather 
faint, and in others it has been recently destroyed by 
quarrying or othei-wiso. 
The top of the hill has long been under cultivation, and 
therefore presents no trace of antiquity. 
The sha})e of the hill-top is (piadraiigular, but not very 
regularly so, and the sides deviate considerably from straight 
lines. The intrenchment following its outline is of similar 
form, and has, from possessing such an outline, often been 
sup})osed to )je of Roman origin. 
Tiie entrances are placed at the south-eastern and ndithern 
angles. They were ajjproachcil ;it the two fbi-mer places by 
hollow ways ascending the buthcss-lila; angles of tin* liilj. 
Eacli pas.s(,'S through a deep gap in the rampart, ainl lli,i( al 
the southei-n entrance is deleiided hy two nioinids |)Iacf(l mie 
on each side of the ojxMiing. ^i'he eastcin eiilianee is much 
altered. At the northeiii entrance, wlmli was apftarently 
the j)riiifi|i;il approach ti&gt; this important. ]»lace, thi; naii'ow 
portion ol liiLili land (•niiiiecliii;j; the hills rendered more&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>aaedeor6hepupr6buo592602hnz96rw</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 8.djvu/484</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2816048</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133284</id>
      <parentid>9400439</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:31:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: weii → well</comment>
      <origin>15133284</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8227" sha1="4g7k4f86nf214458zb4prfbbhohh57o" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;45 o C. 18. Anno tricefimo tertio Georgii II. A. D. 1759. 
460,1041. 16s. 8d. for Sums of Money not exceeding two hundred and fixty thoufand one hundred and four Pounds fix- 
^*'&quot;y.'&quot;ejhe Charge of ^een Shillings und eight Pence, for defraying the Charge of the embodied Militia of the feveral 
lhi« Men aTd High Counties in South Britain, from the refpedlive Times that they were embodied, and of the fencible 
landers, to'24Dec. 1760. Men of Argykfnire, and Lord Sutherland's Battalion of Highlanders in North Britain^ from the Com- 
mencement oi their Eftablifliment, to the twenty-fourth Day of December one thoufand feven hun- 
^o,^^^^. forCioathing dred and fixty ; and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding thirty thoufand feven hundred and 
jor the^imbodied iMUiua twenty-two Pou.ids, upon Account, for defraying the Charge of Cloathing for the imbodied Mi- 
a',o42^1.°for Penfions to ^'^'^' '^&quot;^ ^^^ ^'^^&quot;^ &lt;^^^^ thoufand feven hundred and fixty ^ and any Sum or Sums of Money 
■Widows of reduced Offi- not exceeding two thuufand and forty-two Pounds, for the paying of Penfions to the Wi- 
cers v/ho died on dows of fuch reduced Officers of his Majefty's Land Forces and Alarines as died upon the Efta- 
Half-pay. blilhment of Half-pay in Great Britain, and who were married to them before the twenty-fifth Day 
of Deee/nher one thoufand feven hundred and fixteen, for the Year one thoufand feven hundred and 
35,651!. gs. to the re- fixty ; and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding thirty-five thoufand fix hundred fifty-one 
duced officers of the Pounds and nine Shillings, upon account of the reduced Officers of his Majefty's Land Forces and 
tT^eK Sowan™ ^o&quot;^ the Year one thoufand feven hundred and fixty, and any Sum or Sums of Money 
the Officers and pi ivats not exceeding two thoujand nine hundred and forty-fix Pounds, for defraying the Charge for Al- 
Gentleraen of the two lowances to the feveral Officers and private Gentlemen of the two Troops of Horfe Guards and 
Troops of Horfe Guards, Regiment of Horfe reduced, and to the fuperannuated Gentlemen of the four Troops of Horfe 
andUegiiTient of Hcrie Guards, for the Year one thoufand (cv^n hundred and fixty ; and any Sum or Sums of Money not 
Ited Gsni'iemenV the' ^,xceeding twenty-fivc thoufand Pounds, upon Account, for Out-Penfioners of ChcJfea Holpital, 
four Troops o» Horfe fof the Year one thoufand feven hundred and fixty; and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceed- 
Guards. 25,000!. for ing nine hundred fifty-three thoufand three hundred and two Pounds fifteen Shillings and five Pence 
Out-Peaficnersof Chel- Halfpenny, for defraying the extraordinary Expences of his Majefty's Land Forces, and other Ser- 
feaHofpital. 953,3021, yj^es incurred to the twenty-fourth Day of November one thoufand feven hundred and fifty-nine, 
ordina^ry ExpencM oHhe ^&quot;'^ &quot;°^ provided fof by Parliament; and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding five hundred 
Land Forces, &amp;c. to 24 thoufand Pounds, upon Account, as a prefent Supply, towards defraying the Charges of Forage, 
Nov. 1759, not provided Bread, Bread Waggons, Train of Artillery, and of Provifions, Wood, Straw, et cetera, and other 
for. 500,000!. towards extraordinary Expences, and Contingences of his Majefty's Combined Army under the Command 
the Charge °^|^^^^'^^^^^_ of Prince Ferdinand -y and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding one hundred thirty-four thou- 
ting^enceTof the Army ^^^'^ °&quot;^ hundred thirty-nine Pounds feventeen Shillings and four Pence, for defraying the Charge 
under Prince Ferdinand, of feveral Augmcntions to his Majefty's Forces, fince the Eftimate of Guards and Garrifons, for 
134,1391. 17 s. 4d. for the Year one thoufand feven hundred and fixty, was prefented, from their refpedtive Commence- 
Chargecf Augmentations ments, to the twenty-fourth Day of Decejnber one thoufand feven hundred and fixty ; and any Sum 
to the Forcts, fince the ^j. ^^^^ ^f Money not exceeding twelve thoufand eight hundred feventy-four Pounds fifteen Shil- 
Eitinate for 1760 was ,. , n ^ r 1 r • l /^l &lt;- t&gt; • c t • . ^ t 1 &lt;- VV. 
prefented, to 24 Dec. imgs and ten Pence, for defraymg the Charge ot a Regiment ot Light Dragoons, and of an addi- 
1760. 12,874!. 15s, tiojial Company to Lieutenant Colonel Vaugbans Corps, for the Year one thoufand feven hundred 
lod. for Charge of a and fixty; and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding four hundred forty-feven thoufand eight 
Regiment of Light Dra- }^yrj(]j.ej] eighty-two Pounds ten Shillings and five Pence Halfpenny, for defraying the Charge of 
Com'an'&quot;to'Li'uf Co thirty-eight thoufand feven hundred fifty Men, of the Troops of Hanover, Wolfenhuttle, Saxe Gotha^ 
IcnTvaughan's Corps. ^»*^ Count oi Buckebiirg, together with that of General and Staff Officers, a&lt;5lually imployed againft 
447,882!. 10s. 5d. 2q. the Common Enemy, in concert with the King of Prujjia, from the twenty-fifth Day of December 
for Charge of the Troops one thoufand feven hundred and fifty-nine, to the twenty-fourth Day of December one thoufand 
of Hanover, Woirenbut- {^y^y^ hundred and fixty, both inclufive, to be ifliied in Advance, every two Months, in like Man- 
tle, Saxe Gotha, and ^^^ ^^ ^^^ p ^^ ^^^^ HefTtan Foices now in the Service of Great Britain ; the faid Body of Troops 
Count iSucReourg, 1024 , „ I , r^ ■&quot; • n r-&gt; • rr ti rr r- c- l /-l r •  i i ^■•^^^ 
Dec. 1760, to be iffued ^o be muftercd by an Enghjh Commiflary, and the ettedtive State thereof to be afcertained by the Sig- 
two Months in Advance; nature of the Commander in Chief of the faid Forces; and any Sum or Sums of A4oney not cx- 
the Troops to be mufter- cecding two hundred fixty-eight thoufand eight hundred feventy-four Pounds fixteen Shillings and 
ed by an Engl'''' t-'om- eight Pence, for defraying the Charge of two thoufand one hundred twenty Horfe, and nine thou- 
Td fo;cLrg-sVf the&quot; ^^&quot;^ &quot;'&quot;e hundred Foot, together with the General and Staff Officers, the Officers of the Hofpital, 
Troops of HeiTe CaflTe!, and Officers and others belonging to the Train of Artillery, the Troops of the Landgrave of HeJJe 
to 24 Dec. 1760, toge- Cajfel, in the Pay of Great Britain, for three hundred fixty-fix Days, from the twenty-fifth Day of 
ther with the Subfidy to 2)^^^;„^^,^ One thoufand feven hundred and fifty-nine, to the twenty-fourth Day of December oxaz 
the faid Time,^ pur- thoufand feven hundred and fixty, both Days inclufive, together with the Subfidy for the faid Time, 
li%V^. 4's&quot;^iod. for P&quot;'''&quot;&quot;^&quot;t to Treaty; and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding nincty-feven thoufand eight 
Charge of an additional hundred and fifty Pouiids four Shillings and ten Pence, for defraying the Charge of an additional 
Corps of Troops of Corps of nine hundred twenty Horfe, and fix thoufand fevcnty-two Foot, together with the Ge- 
KeffeCiirel, to 31 Dec. nerai and Staff Officers, the Officers of the Hofpital, and Officers and others belonging to the Train 
,760, purfaant to ^f Artillery, the Troops of the Landgrave of HeJJ'e Caffel, in the Pay of Great Britain, for three 
&quot;&quot;^' hundred fixty-fix Days, from the firft Day of January one thoufand feven hundred and fixty, to the 
34,3331. Sj. for Charge thirty-firft Day of December following, both Days inclufive, purfuant to Treaty; and any Sum or 
•f Augment^itionof thcgiirp,; of Money not exceeding thirty-four thoufand three hundred thirty-three Pounds and eight 
iroop of Hanover to Shillings, for defraying the Charge of an Augmentation of one thoufand and one Light Cavalry, the 
Troops of Hanover, in the Pay of Great Britain, for three hundred fixty-fix Days, from the twen- 
ty-fifth Day of December one thoufand kvtn hundred and fifty-nine, to the twenty-fourth Day of 
20,7761. 5!. 5d. for December one thoufand feven hundred and fixty, both Days inclufive; and any Sum or Sums of 
ChaiRc of Augmentation jyj^ji,gy &quot;&quot;^ exceeding twenty thoufand feven hundred and feventy-fix Pounds five Shillings and five 
Cjik tojl^Dec 1760 ^^&quot;-^5 ^^^ defraying the Charge of an Augmentation of four Squadrons of Hunters and Huflars, 
' ^ the Troops of the Landgrave of He//e Cajfel^ in the Pay of Great Britain, from the twenty-fifth Day 
of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4g7k4f86nf214458zb4prfbbhohh57o</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 7.djvu/442</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2817322</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133283</id>
      <parentid>9402815</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:31:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: theni  →  them</comment>
      <origin>15133283</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7745" sha1="6dwzjkwxsmb08v5zhq5ekp7n2jr2jge" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;42 2 C. 25. Anno vicefimo quinto Georgii II. A. D. 1752. 
9,6q9l. 9s. to XIII. And it is hereby alfo enaiSted by the Authority aforefaid, Tliat out of all or any the Aids or Sup- 
Oreenwich Hof- plies aforefaid, there (hall and may be iftued and applied any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding nine 
P''''!- thoufand fix hundred ninety-nine Pounds and nine Shillings, upon Account, towards the Support of the 
Royal Hofpltal at Gri-eiiwich^ for the better Maintenance of the Seamen of the faid Hofpital, worn out and 
become decrepit in the Service of their Country. 
XIV. And it is hereby alfo enafted by the Authority aforefaid. That out of all or any the Aids or Sup- 
ji^.giol. 3 s. plies aforefaid, there fhall and may be illued and appliedany Sum or Surns of Money not exceeding one 
5d, to the hundred twenty-four thoufand nine hundred and twenty Pounds three Shillings and five Pence, for or to- 
ch.irgeof the ^^tds defraying the Charge of the Office of Ordnance for Land Service for the Year one thoufand {tiven 
Li'ilrstrace hundred and fifty-tv/o, performed and to be performed, and for defraying the extraordinary Expence of the 
' Office of Ordnance for Land Service, not provided for by Parliament. 
XV. And it is hereby alfo enacted. That out of all or any the Aids or Supplies provided as aforefaid, 
1,041,5541. there Ihall and may be iiliied and applied any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding one million forty-one 
195. 6d. to the thoufand five hundred and fifty-four Pounds nineteen &gt;• hillings and fix Pence, lor and towards maintaining 
Land Forces; hig Majelly's Land Forcts, an i other Services herein after more particularly exprefled ; that is to fay. Any 
viz. Sum or Surrs of Money not exceeding fix hundred and eleven thoufand one hundred and one Pounds fix 
On, roil 6s. Shilling; and five Pence Halfpenny, for defraying the Charges of eighteen thoufand eighthundred and fifty. 
Tuards^ Sc in ^ven tffecSlive Men, including Commiffion and Non-commiffion Officers, and aHb one thoufand eight 
nr&quot;ca't Brit^^n,'&quot; hundred and fifteen Invalids, for Guards, Garrifons and other his Majefl:y's Land Forces in Great Brit :&gt;:, 
Guernfey and' Guernfey unA Jerfey, for the Year one thoufand fevcn hundred and fifty-two; and any Sum or Sums of 
Jeifey; Money not exceeding two hundred twenty-nine thoufand nine hundred and forty-three Pounds thirteen 
•329,943 1. 13 s. Shillings and nine Pence Halfpenny, for maintaining his Majefly's Forces and Garnfons in the Plantations, 
gd. iq. for Minorca and Gibraltar, and for Provifions for the Garrifons in Nova Scotia, Neivfoundland, Gibraltar and 
the Plantations, Pycijiclence, for the Year one thoufand feven hundred and fifty-two ; and any Sum or Sums of Money not 
Gi'b'raha/&quot;'' exceeding fifty-eight thoufand four hundred forty-eight Pounds fourteen SHiljings and feven Pence, upon 
and for p'rovi- Account fot Out-pcnfioncrs of Chelfca Hofpital, for the Year one thoufand feven hundred and fifty-two; 
lions for the and any Sum or Sums of Money not'exceeding fixty thoufand Pounds, upon account of the reduced Officers 
Garrifons in of jjis Majefty's Land Forces and Marines for the Year one thoufand feven hundred and fifty-two, fubject 
N'^wftn'dland '° ^&quot;'^'^ Rules to be obferved in the Application of the faid Half-pay, as are hereafter prefcribed concerning 
Gibrah'a&quot; ' 'he fame; and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding four thoufand five hundred twenty-two Pounds 
and Providence, fixteen Shillings and fix Pence, for defraying the Charge for Allowances to the feveral Officers and private 
58,448!. 14?. Gentlemen of the two Troops of Horfe Guards, and Regiment of Horfe reduced, anal to the fuperannuated 
yd. to Ont-Pen- Gentlemen of the four Troops of Horfe Guards for the Year one thoufand feven hundred and fifty-two; 
fioncrs of Chel- ^^^ ^^^ Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding three thoufand one hundred twenty-five Pounds thirteen 
feu pita j Shillings and one Penny, for paying of Pcnfions to the Widows of fuch reduced Officers of his Majefty's 
rcd&quot;uc°e° Officers ■ Land Forces and Marines as died upon the Eftablifliment of Half-pay in Great Britain, and who were 
^, . 'married to them before the twenty-fifth Day of £)tT(?m/'t'?- one thoufand feven hundred and fixteen, for the 
e'd.^to the Of- Year one thoufand feven hundred and fifty-two ; which faid Sum of three thoufand one hundred and twenty- 
ficers and Gen- five Pounds thirteen Shillings and one Penny, fhall be ilTued to fach Perion or Pcrfons as his RIajefly fhall, 
tlemcn of the by Warrant or Warrants under his Royal Sign Manual, direft and appoint to receive the fame, to be by 
Horfe Guards, j-jj,-,^ q,- them paJj ovcr lo fuch Widows of Half-pay Officers, or their Affigns, according to fuch Eftabliih- 
^'i,&quot;^&quot;^! &quot;&quot; s' ments. Lifts or other Dircdlions, and with and fubjeifl to fuch Conditions, Qtialifications and other Al- 
i'd.&quot;to the^4n- lowances for the fame as his Majefty, by fuch and the like Warrant or Warrants, fhall be graciotifly pleafed 
(Ions of Officers to diredt and appoint; and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding twenty-two thoufand four hundred 
Widows^ twelve Pounds fifteen Shillings and one Penny, for defraying the cx:raordinary Expences of his Majefty's 
22,4121. 15 s. Land Forces and other Services incurred in the Year one thoufand feven hundred and fifty-one, and not 
id. for extranr- ppo^ijgj for by Parliament; and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding twenty thoufand Pounds, to 
ot&quot;t&quot;e LanT&quot;&quot;^ enable his Majefty to make good his Engagements with the t.ledlor of Bavaria, purfuant to Trea.y ; and 
Forcej incurred 'any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding thirty-two thoufand Pounds, to ena le his Majefty to make 
in 1751. good his Engagements with the King of Pjland, Elecior of Saxony, purfuant to Treaty. 
20,oool. to the £ii;Oor of Bavaria ; 32,000!. to the Kin^ of l^oi.'nd. 
2i,c4il. igs. XVI. And it is hereby alfo enafled by the Authority aforefiiid. That out of all or any the Aids or 
f-**! ^.''m'&quot; Supplies aforefaid, there fhali be iflued and applied any Sum or Sum.s of Money not exceeding twenty- 
Scotia^in 17a. orie thoufand and forty-two Pounds nineteen Shillings and fix Pence Halfpenny, upon Account, for de- 
fraying the Charges inriu'red by fupporting and niaintaining the Sett ement of his JMajefty's Colony of 
Nova Scotia iit the &quot;Vear one thoufand feven hundred and fifry-one, and not provided for by Parliament; 
and 40,4^0 1. and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding forty thou'and four hundred fifty Pounds and ten Pence, 
aid 10 a forthe^jp(jj-| y^ccount, for ftipporting and maintaining the Settlement of his Majefty's Colony of Nova Scotia for 
preient Year, j^g Yg^,. ^j^g thoufand levcn hiuidred and fifty-tv.-o. 
6,9971. Ss. 3d. XVII. And it is hereby alfo enaiTted by the Authority aforefaid. That out of all or any the Aids or 
to the Dtficienc Supplies aforefaid, there fhall and may be ifliicd and appli.d any Sum or Sums cf Pvloney not exceeding 
StaTip'ou'tieTat ^^'^ thoufand nine hundred ninety-feven Pounds eight Shillings and three Pence, to replace' to the Sinking 
Chriftmas 1750, Fund the like Sum paid out of the fame, to make good the Deficiency of the additi.mnl St.imp Duties 
5,4-1 1. 6 =. 4d. ''t Cl)ri,hnas one thoufand fe'en hundred and fifty ; and any Sum or Sums of Money not exceeding five 
totlie D'iicisnry thoufuid four hundred thirty-one Pounds fix Shillings and four Pence, to replace to the faid Sinking 
of toe Duties on Fund the like Stim paid out of the fame, to make good the Deficiency of the Duty on Licences for re- 
Licences tor ic- tailing of Spirituous Li-]uors at Lady -day owe thoufand feven hundred and fifty-one; and any Sum or 
Sums 
2&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6dwzjkwxsmb08v5zhq5ekp7n2jr2jge</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Author:Alberto Santos-Dumont</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
    <id>2826824</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131762</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Erick Soares3</username>
        <id>1093749</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Works */</comment>
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      <text bytes="3450" sha1="8lr5dzri2bux93pz7eulhk38ddmtpxr" xml:space="preserve">{{author
 | firstname    = Alberto Santos-
 | lastname     = Dumont
 | last_initial = Du
 | description  = Brazilian inventor and aviation pioneer; one of the very few people to have contributed significantly to the development of both lighter-than-air and heavier-than-air aircraft
 }}

==Works==
* [[My Airships]] (1904) {{media|type = spoken}}
* [[Translation:What I Saw, What We Will See|What I Saw, What We Will See]] (1918) - translated by the Wikisource Community.
===Articles===
* Shall We Ever Fly? - Black &amp; White, 1901
*&quot;Paris to New York by Balloon in Two Days&quot;, New York Herald, 17 Nov. 1901.
* {{autolink|Baltimore American/Volume 192/Issue 34,925/Travel by Balloon|date=1902-01-05}}
* {{autolink|Red Lake Falls Gazette/Volume 19/No. 31/Airships Will Reach the Pole|date=17 April 1902}}
* Why I Believe the Airship is a Commercial Certainly - The Inter Ocean, Volume XXXI, Issue 27, page 1, April 20, 1902
* {{autolink|The North American Review/Volume 174/Issue 547/Air-Ships and Flying-Machines|date=1902-06}}
*{{autolink|McClure's Magazine/Volume 19/Number 4/How I Became an Aëronaut and My Experience with Air-Ships|date=1902-08}}
*{{autolink|McClure's Magazine/Volume 19/Number 5/How I Became an Aëronaut and My Experience with Air-Ships|date=1902-09}}
*{{autolink|The Pall Mall Magazine/Volume 32/Issue 129/The Sensations and Emotions of Aerial Navigation|date=1904}}
*{{autolink|The Fortnightly Review/Volume 77/Issue 459/The Future of Air-ships|date=1905-03}}
*{{autolink|The Independent/Volume 58/Issue 2948/The Pleasures of Ballooning|date=1905-07}}
*{{autolink|The Fresno Republican/Vol. 50/Issue 72/Aerial Transportation|date=1916-09-10}}
*{{autolink|Flying (periodical)/Vol. 6/No. 1/Linking the Nations of the Western Hemisphere|date=1917-02}} {{ssl|Linking the Nations of the Western Hemisphere.pdf}}
** Possible republished [https://books.google.com.br/books?id=WKhEAQAAMAAJ&amp;vq=Santos%20Dumont&amp;hl=pt-BR&amp;pg=PA228#v=snippet&amp;q=Santos%20Dumont&amp;f=false here]
*10,000 aeroplanes to protect the Monroe Doctrine (Chicago Herald), Mar. 25, 1917
*{{autolink|Flying (periodical)/Volume 8/N. 8/17|South and Central America Waiting for Aerial Transportation|date=1919-09}}

==Works about Dumont==
* {{autolink|International Herald Tribune/1901/M. Santos-Dumont solves the problem of aerial navigation|date=1901}}
* {{autolink|The New York Times/1901/10/20/M. Santos-Dumont rounds Eiffel Tower|date=1901}}
* {{Century Magazine link|volume=63|issue=1|The Dirigible Balloon of M. Santos-Dumont|author=Sterling Heilig|year=1901}}
* {{autolink|McClure's Magazine/Volume 19/Number 3/The Over-Sea Experiments of Santos-Dumont|author=Sterling Heilig|date=1902}}
*{{autolink|Popular Mechanics/Volume 13/Issue 6/How to Build the Famous &quot;Demoiselle&quot; Santos-Dumont Monoplane|date=1910-06}}
*{{autolink|Popular Mechanics/Volume 14/Issue 1/How to Build the Famous &quot;Demoiselle&quot; Santos-Dumont Monoplane|date=1910-07}}
*{{autolink|Jornal Brasileiro de Psiquiatria/Volume 71/Issue 1/The bipolarity of Alberto Santos-Dumont|author=Elie Cheniaux|date=2022}}
;Related
*{{autolink|Studies in Socialism/Truth or Fiction?|Truth or Fiction?|author=Jean Jaurès}}
*{{autolink|Aquivos de Neuro-Psiquiatria/Volume 77/Issue 1/Henrique Dumont: how a traumatic brain injury contributed to the development of the airplane|year=2019}}
{{PD/US|1932}}
{{authority control}}

[[Category:Brazilian authors]]
[[Category:Inventors as authors]]
[[Category:Autobiographers]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 4.djvu/80</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2828838</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133282</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:31:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
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      <text bytes="7352" sha1="griwndecpj8w5as9vz1c62vpvecl5rw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;^4 C. 2. Anno imdecimo &amp; duodecimo Gulielmi III. A. D. 1700. 
Efquire, James Hooper ECqa'ire, JoknCary Gentleman, Sir i^fwry iS^wrw Knight, Thomas Harrijon Efquire, 
JViUiani Felhives Efquire, and Thomas Rawlins Efquire, (Truiiees nominated and appointed for putting 
in Execution the Powers and Authorities herein after enafted relating to the faid forfeited and&quot; other 
Eftates and Interefirs in Ireland) and their Heirs, Executors, Adminiftrators and Affigns refpeflively, 
from the fecond Day of November one thoufand fix hundred ninety and nine, according to the feveral 
Eftates and Interefls, which the faid Perfons conviiSbed or attainted, or to be convi£led or attainted, or 
any in Truft for them, or any of them, or to their or any of their Ufe or Ufes, had therein on the 
faid thirteenth Day of February one thoufand fix hundred eighty-eight, or at any Time afterwards, or 
the faid late King, or any in Trufl for him, had in any of the PremilTes at the Time of his AcceiTion 
that the fame to the Crown of England, to the end the fame may be bargained, fold, difpofed of, and applied by the 
. may be fold, &amp;c. f^jj Xruftees, and the Survivors of them, to and for fuch Ules, Intents and Purpofes, as are herein after 
this Aft '^^ '&quot; exprefled, mentioned and declared ; and where any of the Perfon or Perfons aforefaid were feifed of an 
Eihtes Tail veft- Eftate Tail only in the faid Honours, Manors, Baronies, Caitles, Meifuages, Lands, Tenements, He- 
ed in the faid reditaments, or other the Premiffes, either in PofTeffion, Reverfion or Remainder, the fame are hereby 
Tiuftees, &amp;c. enafted and declared to be vefted in the faid Truftees and their Heirs, in Fee-fmiple, to the End the fame 
to be fold. j^g^y jjg abfolutely fold and difpofed of as aforefaid ; any thing herein before contained to the contrary 
thereof in any wife notwithftanding. 
IL And for the avoiding all Grants, Alienations and Difpofitions, at any Time fince the faid thirteenth 
All Grants &amp;c. •'-'^y '^^ February one thoufand fix hundred eighty-eight, made or granted of the faid forfeited or forfeit- 
fmce the faid able Eftates or Interefls, or of any other the Premifles, or any Part or Parcel thereof, or of all or any 
i3Febr. 168S. the Quit-Rents, Crown-Rents, Compofition-Rents, or Chiefries belonging to the Crov/n of Ireland- 
under the Great gg it enaiSed, That all and every Grant, Demife, Surrender, Releafe, Cuftodiam, Leafe, Confirmation, 
Aa' f? °Y ^'^ °'' o'^her Alienation or Difpofition whatsoever, at any T ime fince the faid thirteenth Day of February one 
ment in Ireland thoufand fix hundred eijjhty-eight, made or granted, or mentioned to be made or granted under the Great 
cfanyof thefaid Seal of England or Ireland, or Seal of the E:!^chequer in Ireland, or by any Adi or Adts of Parliament in 
forfeited Eftates, Ireland, or otherwife, of any of the faid forfeited or forfeitable Eftates or Interefl:s, or of the Eflate of 
or of the Eftate t^g faid j^te King James, or any Part thereof, or of any the Qiiit-Rents, Crown-Rents, Compofition- 
K.-'iamefii^&quot; - ^^&quot;l^^j °'' Chiefries, belonging to the Crown of Ireland, fhall be and are hereby declared to be null and 
dared null and '^o^^ to all Intents and Purpofes whatfoever. 
void. III. Provided neverthelefs, that nothing herein contained fliall be conftrued or taken to make any fuch 
But Grantees not Grantees, their Heirs, Executors, Adminiftrators or Affigns, accountable for the Rents, Ifiues and Pro- 
accountable for fits of any fuch Honours, Manors, Baronies, Caflles, Meffuages, Lands, Tenements, Rents and Here- 
f''^i&quot;''^d^ °T fjitaments, by them or any of them hadj received, or taken, by or before the faid fecond Day of A^aw^mfor 
nements&quot; &amp;c ^&quot; '^'^^ thoufand fix hundred ninety and nine, but that they and every of them_, may have, retain, keep and 
poffefs the fame to their own Ufes, as well againft your Majefty, your Heirs and Succefixirs, as againft 
the faid Truftees herein before named, and the Survivors of them, and the Heirs, Executors and Ad- 
miniftrators of fuch Survivor, without any Account to be rendered for the fame. 
Perfons having Ty_ Provided always, and be it ena6led by the Authority aforefaid. That if any Perfon or Perfons, 
i^' an °of °he having any Eftate, Right, Title or Intereft, in or to any of the Eftates or Interefts, fo as aforefaid vefted 
Eflate^ vefted in ill the faid Truftees, before and upon the faid thirteenth Day of February on^ thoufand fix hundred 
the faid Truftees, eighty-eight, or if the Heirs, Executors, Adminiftrators or Affigns of any fuch Perfon or Perfons have 
or if their Heirs, pf hath furrendered or releafed unto his Majefty and the late Queen, or unto his Majefty, fuch Eftate, 
f'^d'f^^h-Fft'^&quot;' -^'Shtj Title or Intereft, and fince accepted from his Majefty and the faid late Queen, or from his Ma- 
&amp;c. and accept- J^^^' '^&quot;Y ^^^^ Grant or Demife thereof, every fuch Perfon is hereby declared to be reftored to the fame 
ed a new Grant Eftate, Right, Title or Intereft, which he might or Avould have had in or to fuch Premiffes, if no fuch 
thereof, fuch Surrender or Releafe had been madej any thing herein before contained to the contrary thereof in any 
Peifons are re- wife notwithftanding. 
ftored, &amp;c. ^ y_ Pj-Qyijed alfo, that nothing herein before contained ftiall be conftrued to take away, impeach, or 
But not to preju- prejudice any Eftate, Right, Title, Intereft, Claim or Demand whatfoever, which any Perfon or Perfons 
Ri^gh^&quot; &amp;c. of' (who by virtue or in puifuance of any pretended Authority, Power or Jurifdiftion of the Council Board 
Perfons com- in Ireland, or of any Commiffion under the Great Seal of Ireland for that Purpofe, hath or have been. 
prized in the Ar- adjudged' to be Comprized within, or to be intitled unto, the Benefit of the Articles of Limerick or Gal-^ 
tides of Lime- loway} OX the Heirs, Executors, Adminiftrators or Affigns of any fuch Perfon or Perfons had, have, 
nek or Gallo- j^^^j^ ^^ .^^^ claim, in, to of out of any Part of the faid forfeited or forfeitable Premiffes ; and for com- 
^^'^' ' ' pofing the Minds of all your Majefty's Subjects concerned therein, every fuch Adjudication is hereby 
confirmed. 
nor any Perfon's yj Provided alfo, that nothing herein contained fhall impeach or prejudice any Property or Intereft of 
who^fubmitted' ^'^Y Perfon or Perfons in or to any Goods or perfonal Chattels whatfoever,. who in purfuance of any De-- 
&amp;s, ' claration of their Majefties, fubmitted to their Majefties Autliority, by the Time therein prefcribed», 
upon any Afiurance therein contained, to be fecured in their Goods,, and all their Chattels perfonal: 
whatfoever, in cafe of fuch Submiffion, 
The Reji of this Aii, relating to the TruJI, which is executed, is omitted.. 
Truftees to take the Oaths i W. &amp; M. ff. i. c. 8. And appoint Regrfters, t5rc. who are to take an Oath, 
and not to purchafe any Part of the Premifles. Truftees may meet and aiSb at fuch Places in Ireland as 
they think fit, may fend for Perfons, Writings, fe^c. and' adminifter Oaths. All Sheriff's, Bailiffs, &amp;c^ 
■ are to obey their Orders. Truftees may a£i: and determine by Examinations on Oath, i^c. inform them- 
felves of the Names of Perfona contLSted or attainted, and of all real and perfonal Eftates, and by whom 
forfeited.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Indian Antiquary, Vol. 4-1875.djvu/4</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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INDIAN ANTIQUARY. 
A JOURNAL OF ORIENTAL RESEARCH 
IN 
AECILEOLOGY, HISTORY, IITEIIAIURK, LANGUAGES, PHILOSOimjlELIGKLV. l-'OLKi. 
EDITED BY 
JAS. BURGESS, H.EJL&amp;, F.H.G.S., 
MJ5MBRE DE LA BOCO'TB' ASLVTIQIiE, FELLOW OF TUB UNIVERSITY 0* BO) 
ARCILEOLOGICAI. Sl'RVEYOB AND REPORTER TO GOVERNMENT, WESTERN INDIA. 
AUTHOR OF &quot;THE ROCK-TEMPLES OF ELEPHANTA,&quot; &quot;THE TEMPLES OF SATRUNJATA,'' 
;' ARCHITECTURE AND SCENERY IN GUJARAT AND RAJEUIANA,&quot; &amp;C. 
5780 
TOL IV -1875. 
BOMB A 
nn am. PcnLrsn.:n at the EDI CATION SOCIETY'S PRESS, Bktlm. 
)H: TRUBNER &amp; Co. ftutt'i B. LEHOUX. Bkklik: A. ASlIER&amp;Co. Some: SPITHOVER A Co. 
Bowut: THACKER. VINTNG &amp; Co. 
1875.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Indian Antiquary, Vol. 4-1875.djvu/31</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2833135</id>
    <revision>
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      <text bytes="5349" sha1="csq9twacqyj8zsi3fmf8q97u0ghyxrs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;18 
THE TNDTA3T ANTTQITARY. 
[JlJfUJLif, S7&amp;. 
rv. Knlj .'iiijinuni, Mid MMBfe BByittgl Df Edi Ddlxh :ii- 
poranee. ChannaBasava's own sayings in general 
An t&amp;lffiahoitt certain fc^it^i of Sjivn, and yltuctatuU 
•bout Luings doctrines and ceremonies. b 
5* gives the tfonut tfdiya mutat/n, t&gt;i tbfi im-rnbore. 
of which ft is said that they could not have got 
sternal bliss ; chapter 55 has short legend* of 
Siva Sanson*; chapter o7 is ft recapitulation 
orBaiavn's wonders, etc,; nml chapters 02 and 
63 contain some lo-called prophecy. 
4, Sifigi i£Ajn.'n .lfciit Biuiava Charitra (Pu- 
rdtia), i.e. legends regarding the great HaH&amp;ra 
(BijjalR'n prime mimsl-er): 49 chapters ill $nf- 
pudi — doings and sayings of Basara thar. 
the Rams typo iw tthpo preceding two 
Pttr it w&lt;i», A story that was told by B a s a v a in 
Bijjnla's court la, hi an kbriffged form, as follows t— « 
A hnnteman by profess! ou one morning told hit 
wife that he waj going to bring bar some sweet 
TOnteou, and want nwuy. On the njud he heard 
the sound of conch-shells and drums pmiw-iling 
if a Siva lo tuple, and thought that to bo ft 
good omen. Tiia whole day ha roamed about in 
tho jangle without seeing any game. In rim 
evening he camo to a tank, and ascended a trot 
that «tood on. ha bank. It was then the four* 
teanth day from the full moon of the month 
Ifftgfaa. Ho plucked off the leaves thai wktc ob- 
Hag hi* sight (then oeottra a flaw in (lie 
manuscri pt ). Tho leaves, together with some spray 
water, eaino In contact with an old liBga that for 
thousands of years had been left alone. After a 
sleepless night, the next morning bo saw that the 
liffgn had been worshipped, was comforted, * n d 
took some roots and fruit* homo as a gift (pr/udd-a) 
from the 6iv* linga, which he, and his wife who 
had observed the watch of the Bh*a rdfrd in o 
temple during the night, ate as food after u (oat 
ipdrane), and mode up their mind ulnayi to do 
the same. If huntsman continued his 
sinful nnenparfon or killing animals, till dtaUh. 
showed its face, and the messengers of Yama 
came to take the old sinner to hell. Then Siva'a 
servant* strongly Efttolftfod« so that Yama wont 
to Siva to complain. &amp;va culled hi* servants, 
Who related tta story or that night, ami, by 
quoting a verso of Hannkrjt Siva Dhorma ihnwod 
the great rfrtOo of presenting etron a few ! nru 
and some water (to a If Ego). Therapon, 
sent Yama away, and blessed the Jioutxmim and 
hii wife, because thoy had performed a &amp;tn 
The ago Of Sfflgi Raja fr denial: be had, 
however, become n known personage at the roar 
1586 aA, when it was told of hhn by the w 
the O Jjgano Bfutic* Pitrdna that '&quot;be had 
of 
performed many wonders and obtained Siva's 
grace.&quot; 
5, TotadArya'a aa&amp;da JUV.j.' a vocabu- 
lary of Tadbhanw and eld Knnareie words— HO 
TBTSss in f§a y padi. Totodarya lived in Kcggere 
time when the Karaaimha dynasty of Vid- 
yanagara was declining. 
iffu Kaiptti (the poet's rait n»*r*m) by 
Linga, the prime minuter of the king of UggehalU 
and son of the Brahman Virnpakeha. HJa work 
is u vocabulary tiko tlw preceding— M versea in 
the aimie metre. Another vocabulary, the Oka- 
iurdttja Niffhrntu, by Kavi Bomma [Brahma], may 
bo JaiiiH, as it la composed in Arya vcrsea; 
Borama, however, is a name not unfraqoent with 
: ugftitaa. It eouLtiiM 100 vartes, 
7. Ohikka NaSjesaa story or the poet BAgbava. 
It was compost, i *. 2 and 4, ma it referi to 
their anthers. It is in Satpadi, and has 19 
chapters, with 1485 verses. 
Eaghava'sfatherwasMahadovallhat/ia 
of i'aru jiopun (Hampe, VldyAoagara) ; Ids sruru was 
HarUvara, Being onoe a little eroai in hii bo- 
haviocr towards his gurn, who had reproved him 
for not uwag his poetical faotiltiei exclusively 
for the honour of Siva, this worthy knocked oat 
■etroral of his teeth by a blow with one of hie 
wooden shoes. Tho pupil, Uy ,r«fir, *a* received 
back into favour, hii teeth were restowl to him, 
and ho was instructed. Tho drift of one of the 
■tones that formed part of hie mitrueiioas may 
!» given here. At the time of king B ijj u l B there 
ws* no exeellent LiiTgavanta woman in Kalvana- 
pora, called Karaaliyi (JTaamleX &amp;** wanted to 
Tisit her. aasnmed the form of a debanehoe, and 
went to the itruct of tUt town itihahited by pros- 
titutes, in company with Mfcrada. f the fiivourito 
flbjhtof the Lingaitw). who Itad to carry hia betel. 
pooh. The worthies of that street wondered as 
his beauty, and were entertained by him. Even- 
ing cam, ,„ liiora follows a very obsosne dV 
■cription of whet Ukas plaoo in that dW 
Meanwhile Siva wont with NArada to the boair- 
street called &quot;the groat dn M rf 
was again the object of admiration of had men 
and woraeu. Narad* pointed Eea a num- 
btr of houses occupied by female doroteea, tUl 
they oamo to the Iloun, f Kamalfiyi. She rooeiv cd 
him u a beautiful hbeitino, and did atiU more, at 
this last act her life entered toto m jing» Jj, ti» 
g alio was found dead, and a great laeoestav 
tiuu commenced ( the lulga, however, in whioh bar 
lire was, became known, was brought ami ti«ij |o 
her neck, when instantly her life returned to l»«r. 
The poet ft A g h a v am introduced a« culling 
himself &quot;the inventor of the Sa^podi nurtrea&quot; 
• S« ehM Aitm JSa^os k dten 2J,«n. Br. JL ii.4ba.vai YD&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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, i92i.] NOTES AND QUERIES. 
315 
much to assume that either book-owner was 
author of the poetry and prose thus utilized. | 
Inscriptions for lent books are in The  
Bookworm, 1889, &amp;c., vol. ii. 37, 102, 348; 
iii. 22. W. B. H. 
Some years ago I came across the follow- 
ing. It was, if my memory serves me 
right, written in a very old volume. 
I regret now that I did not take any par- 
ticulars of the book. 
It is the only time I have seen the inscrip- 
tion, and it seems to me somew T hat unusual. 
&quot; In sooth &quot; said the old knight, with a grave 
smile, &quot; it grates me not how long soever thou 
didst keep my sorrel so long as thou hadst a use 
for her ; but to afterward leave her in thy stable 
in lieu of returning her to mine was no good deed.&quot; 
W. MORRIS. 
The Homeland Association, Ltd., 
37-38, Maiden Lane, Covent Garden. W.C. 
A school-book in my possession of which 
the owner would have been a schoolboy in, 
1780 or thereabouts has the following in- &lt; 
geiiuous inscription, emphasizing ownership | 
rather than warning borrowers : 
John Richardson, his hand and pen. 
He will be good, but God nos when. 
NORAH RICHARDSON. 
Red House, Wilton, Salisbury. 
May a memory even longer than that 
of Mr. Gideon be allowed to supply some 
schoolboy variants of his lines ? 
And if you say you cannot tell, 
The Lord will send you down to hell. 
And if you say you didn't steal it, 
The Lord will send you to hell to feel it. 
SURREY. 
Though lost to sight, to memory dear, 
Are volumes lent, which disappear, 
With borrowers neglectful. 
Oh, stay not with that band of gnomes. 
But send me back my cherished tomes ! 
Pray pray be not forgetful ! 
E. C. WEINHOLT. 
7, Shooters Hill Road, Blackheath. 
&quot;THE EMPIRE&quot; (12 S. viii. 191, 258). 
Toone's 'Chronological Historian,' ii. 285, 
says that on the 7th of April, 1778, &quot;on a, 
motion made by the Duke of Richmond, in 
the House of Lords, relative to the necessity 
of admitting the independence of America, 
Lord Chatham, though in a very ill state of 
health, rose with great energy to oppose 
the dismemberment of the Empire.&quot; 
JOHN B. WAINEWRIGHT. 
SECOND BISHOP OF CARLISLE (12 S. viii. 
268). If your correspondent has access to 
' The Register of the Priory of Wetherhal,' 
edited by the late Chancellor Prescott 
(London : Elliot Stock, 1897), he will find 
in Appendix D a number of facts and 
arguments on the matter. The Appendix 
is too long to quote, and cannot well be 
condensed ; but Dr. Prescott 's opinion, was 
that after the death of Bishop Athelwold in 
1156 there was a long vacancy of the see, 
and that Bernard was Bishop probably 
from 1204 to 1214. DIEGO. 
* HERALDRY OF ST. AUGUSTINE'S ABBEY, 
BRISTOL (12 S. viii. 267.) There may be 
help by way of hints in the following, extract 
from Dr. Woodward's ' Ecclesiastical 
Heraldry,' pp. 105, 106 : 
&quot; The Lords of Berkeley great benefactors of 
the Church and circa 1142 founders of the 
Monastery of St Augustine at Bristol used the 
mitre as a crest. As in many German instances 
it is charged with the family arms Gules, a chevron 
between ten crosses patees argent. . . . On the carved 
stalls in Bristol Cathedral the arms of the family 
are supported by two mermaids and surmounted 
by a mitre (without helmet or wreath), but the 
mitre is not charged with arms (see my ' Heraldry 
of Bristol Cathedral ' in the Herald and Genealogist, 
vol. iv.. p. 289).&quot; 
ST. SWITHIN. 
OLD SONG WANTED (12 S. viii. 250, 299). 
I have a copy of the carol for which J. W. F. 
inquires, in a penny carol-book, bought 
long ago in Worcester : 
I love Jesus (repeat three times) 
Because He first loved me. 
The Jews they crucified Him. 
And nailed Him to a tree. 
Joseph begged his body. 
And laid it in a tomb. 
Down came an angel, 
And rolled away the stone. 
Mary she came weeping, 
To see her risen Lord. 
The pearly gates are open, 
For you to enter in. 
Shout, shout, the victory. 
The glorious work is done. 
The tune to which I have heard it sung 
was only the one set to ' We won't go home 
till morning.' 
A villager, naming his child Joseph, quoted 
it. 
&quot; See &quot; probably is a mistake for seek. 
AMY R. KINGSMILL. 
Bredicot. Worcester.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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200 


5. Azure, a chevron between three escallop 
shells or. Is it for Browne (Horton Kirby, 
Kent) ? No date. 

Westlake (vol. iv. p. 177) gives the illus- 
tration of a shield which seems to be 
the same, with a crescent for difference 
and the .initials I. B. for John Browne (he 
died in 1595). The similarity between this 
and those in Bishopsbourne Church is 
striking ; they seem to be by f he same 
artist. PIERRE TURPIN. 

Folkestone. 


MRS. GRIFFITHS, AUTHOR OF ' MORALITY 
OP SHAKESPEARE'S DRAMAS.' Information 
about the lady is eagerly desiderated. 

ANEURIN WILLIAMS. 

JOHN JONES, AUTHOR OF ' KINETIC 
UNIVERSE.' The work in question was 
published in Dundee. Details and personalia 
concerning him will oblige. 

ANEURIN WILLIAMS. 

THE LITTLE FINGER CALLED &quot; PINK.&quot; 
Several of the soldiers among the many 
wounded under my care have called the 
little finger &quot; Pink.&quot; I have not made out 
whether this name is confined to any 
locality. Can it be an ancient name of the 
fifth finger, as in the old sheep-counting : 
&quot; Yan, Tan, Tethera, Pethera, Pimp &quot; =five 1 

GEORGE WHERRY, 
Lieut.-Col. R.A.M.C.T. 
1st Eastern General Hospital, Cambridge. 

{{sc|P. S. Lawrence, Artist and Sailor.}}—In an edition (1811) of [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]] '[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]' in the British Museum, recently presented to the Library, are four lithographs illustrative of the poem, by P. S. Lawrence, R.N. 

These drawings are quite distinct from the engravings by Pocock in the same volume. From the lettering &quot;Sketches&quot; being cut in two, half the word appearing on one lithograph and the other half on another, it is evident that they were originally produced in one sheet. They show that P. S. Lawrence was a first-class artist as well as being a sailor, and to any one loving ships, the sea, and art they are a joy. 

I have never seen any other drawing by P. S. Lawrence, and I should be glad if any of your readers could tell anything about him, or where any of his work can be seen. 

In O'Byrne's 'Naval Biographical Dictionary' there is a very short notice of Paul Sandby Lawrence, merely mentioning that he entered the Navy in 1794, the names of various ships in which he served, &amp;c., and that he became a retired Commander in 1845. 

There is no mention of him in Bryan's 'Dictionary of Painters,' but I suggest that he may have been a grandson or nephew of Paul Sandby, and that from him he derived his Christian names and inherited his art. 
{{right|{{sc|John Lecky.}}|1em}}
{{dhr}}
Du BELLAMY : BRADSTREET. I should be 
glad if any reader could supply the date and 
place of marriage in England, about 1780, of 
Charles Du Bellamy, described as a player, 
and Agatha, daughter of Major-General 
John Bradstreet, an American, with notes 
on Du Bellamy's theatrical career. 

E. ALFRED JONES. 
6 Fig Tree Court, Temple, B.C. 

{{sc|&quot;Yorker&quot;: a Cricket Term.}}—What is the origin of the term &quot;yorker,&quot; applied in cricket to an overpitched ball that is short of a full pitch? The most skilled cricket authorities of my acquaintance cannot supply the answer, though some of them are ready with the traditional reply to this question: &quot;Why, what else ''would'' you call it?&quot; 
{{right|{{sc|Alfred f. Robbins.}}|1em}} 

{{c|[See 9 S. viii. 284, 370.] }}
{{dhr}}
{{sc|Theophilus Gale, the Nonconformist Tutor.}}—According to the 'Dict. Nat. 
Biog.,' xx. 377, he was the son of the Rev. Theophilus Gale, D.D., Vicar of Kings-teignton, Devon, and was born there in 1628. What was his mother's maiden name, and where did she come from? Can the exact date of his death in 1678 be ascertained? 
{{right|{{sc|G. F. R. B.}}|1em}}

REFERENCE WANTED. &quot; Things are what 
they are, and the consequences of them will 
be what they will be ; why therefore should 
we wish to be deceived ? &quot; Can any one 
give me chapter and verse for this trite and 
well-worn quotation, which is popularly 
ascribed to Bishop Butler's ' Analogy.' I 
have never run it to earth in the ' Analogy ' 
or elsewhere. H. BIRCH SHARPE. 

Conservative Club. 

[&quot; Things and actions are what they are, and the 
consequences of them will be what they will be ; 
why then should we desire to be deceived ? &quot; Bp. 
Butler, Sermon VII., ' On the Character of Balaam,' 
last paragraph.] 

W. ROBINSON, LL.D., F.S.A., 1777-1848. 
Intending to provide a detailed biography 
of this industrious historian and topographer 
of North- Eastern London, I am endeavouring 
to obtain a sight of his correspondence, 
and so learn more of his methods and 
occupations. Two unpublished histories, 
Hampstead and Stepney, are known to me; 
but I have failed to trace his collections on 
Camberwell, which came into the possession&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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NOTES AND QUERIES. [12 s. vi. MAY i, 1920; 


Finally the poet gets through his mind- 
wanderings, and hears him. And after 
that whenever the poet becomes despondent 
(through dropping on his toe a very heavy 
weight, for example), he weeps, for it 
reminds him of the aged aged man a-sitting 
on a gate. 

The foregoing outlines show, as it were, 
the skeleton of the parody. For the full 
humour of the song in ' Alice ' one must 
really enter into the spirit of Wordsworth's 
poem -for that, it seems to me, is precisely 
what Lewis Carroll had done when he wrote 
Ms parody. 

The various names which the Knight 
gives his son, too, are very probably further 
parodying of the two names of Wordsworth's 
poem. The resemblance between ' The 
Aged Aged Man ' and ' The Leech- gatherer,' 
between ' Ways and Means ' and ' Resolu- 
tion and Independence ' is certainly not 
accidental. 

Some traits in the not altogether admirable 
character of the Aged Aged Man make me 
suspect very strongly that Lewis Carroll was 
pretty thoroughly acquainted, not only with 
the Wordsworth poem itself, but also with 
the history of the poem's composition, par- 
ticularly the account of it in Dorothy 


Wordsworth's 'Journal.' The Aged AgedJ 
Man is, I am afraid, a good deal of a beggar,, 
in spite of his extraordinary fertility of 
imagination. Now Wordsworth's old 
Leech-gatherer, in the poem, is not a beggar 
in any sense far from it. But listen to 
Dorothy Wordsworth's more exact account 
of him : &quot;His trade was to gather leeches ; 
but now leeches were scarce, and he had not 
strength for it. He lived by begging,&quot; &amp;c. 
Perhaps it is as well not to investigate too 
closely into every nook and cranny of Lewis 
Carroll's imagination to say nothing of&quot; 
the impossibility of investigating fully such 
a vast and complex realm. But the more 
one reads the ' Aged Aged Man ' as a parody 
of Wordsworth, the more delightful it 
becomes. And when it is remembered that 
in one and the same song Lewis Carroll is 
parodying Wordsworth, is imitating Thomas 
Moore's poem, is making the &quot; hero &quot; of the 
song exactly fit the character of his White 
Knight, and, best of all, is producing a 
poem utterly delightful to a child as welt 
as to a more sophisticated reader well, the 
poem is fully worthy of a place equal with, 
the more renowned ' Jabberwocky.&quot; 

GEORGE R. PORTER, B.A. 
Cambridge. Mass. 


PRINCIPAL LONDON COFFEE-HOUSES, TAVERNS, 

IN THE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY. 
(Seefonfe. pp. 29,' 59, 84,105, 125, 143.) 


AND INNS 


Three Cranes 
Three Hats Inn 
Three Kings 
Three Nuns 
Three Tuns 

Three Tuns 

Three Tuns 
Three Tuns 
Tom's . . 


Tom's .. 

Tom's M 

Tom's ... 
Truby's 


Thames Street 

Upper Street, Islington 

Piccadilly 

Aldgate High Street 

Between Cornhill and Ex 1748 

change Alley 
St. Margaret's Hill, South- 

wark 
Chandos Street .. .. 1723 

Strand 1793 

Cornhill (south side) . 1709 
1718 

1752 
1770 
1793 

St. Martin's Lane, next to 1710 

Young Man's Coffee-house 1 725 

Eussell Street, Covent Gar- 1707 
den, opposite Button's 

(no. 17) 1713 

Devereux Court, Strand 


St. Paul's Churchyard 


Thornhury, ii. 19 and 20. 

Warwick Wroth, p. 148. 

' A Twentieth-Century Palace,' 1908, p. 30.- 

Shelley's ' Inns,' p. 42' ; Hare, i. 348. 

Plan of Great Fire, R. E. A. C., ' N. &amp; Q ' 

Dec. i), 1916, p. 462. 
Wheatley's ' London,' iii. 379. 

MacMichael's ' Charing Cross,' p. 128. 

Roach's L.P.P., p. 52. 

Matthew Prior's ' The Chameleon.' 

Plan of Great Fire, R. E. A. C., ' N. &amp; Q. ' 
Dec. 9, 1916, p. 461. 

Fielding's C.G.J., no. 2. 

Chatterton to his sister, May. 30. 

Roach's L.P.P., p. 55 ; Wheatley's ' Lon- 
don,' iii. 383. 

Dobson's ' Hogarth,' p. 49. 

MacMichael's ' Charing Cross,' pp. 57, 165.. 

Farquhar's ' Beaux Stratagem,' Act IV., . 
sc. i. 

Addison's Guardian, June 2 ; Wheatley'a 
' London,' iii. 383 ; Hare, i. 27. 

Stirling's A.Y.H., i. 40. 

Dickins and Stanton, p. 13. 

Stirling's A.Y.H., i. 333; Wheatley's 
' London,' iii. 383. 

Sydney's ' XVIIIth Century,' p. 186 ;; 
Wheatley's ' London,' iii. 56.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Notes and Queries - Series 10 - Volume 4.djvu/341</title>
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      <text bytes="6037" sha1="r4zym8nza2tl9twl0o38t1e8k6eto9o" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Wikisource-bot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;NOTES AND QUERIES:
^ filtbium nf Jntmommunkaiion
FOB
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    <title>Page:Notes and Queries - Series 10 - Volume 3.djvu/390</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2864080</id>
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      <text bytes="3804" sha1="mqw2tvilr663eoi8a3cmi38gn3a9ehc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Wikisource-bot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;NOTES AND QUERIES. [io&quot;&gt; s. m. APRIL 22, 1905. 

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Atbemcnm Press, Bream's Buildings, Chancery Lane, B.C. Saturday, April 22, 1905.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Notes and Queries - Series 10 - Volume 1.djvu/455</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2864461</id>
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      <parentid>15032034</parentid>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6560" sha1="c18ct1b3mjd2ab7xbuu2452fjyc7j9i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh|10&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; S. I. {{sc|May}} 7, 1904.]|NOTES AND QUERIES.|375 }}{{rule}}
{{fine block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;them about a mile and a half till the woods screened the dastardly refugees, which enabled us to accomplish the object of the enterprise without molestation. Thus without loss were the Yankees disappointed, as in many similar attempts, of launching into eternity a British man-of-war and her crew. A mode of warfare practised by no other nation, as cowardly as it is detestable.&quot;
{{fine block/e}}

Diagrams showing the construction of different parts of the boat are afterwards given.
{{right|{{sc|Mary E. Noble.}}|1em}}
{{dhr}}
&lt;section end=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;{{sc|Tickling Trout}} (9&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; S. xii. 505; 10&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; S. i. 154, 274).—When I was a boy in Herefordshire I often saw a tailor from a neighbouring village wading up the river up to his armpits and feeling under the banks. I have seen him throw out many a big trout, one after the other, on to the bank. This was called ''tickling trout''.
{{right|E. M.|1em}}
{{dhr}}
&lt;section end=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s3&quot; /&gt;{{sc|Barbers}} (10&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; S. i. 290).—[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|William Falconer]], the poet and author of '[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]],' was the son of an Edinburgh barber. There is an account of Jacques Jasmin, the barber poet of Languedoc, in ''Eliza Cook's Journal'' for 15 March, 1851. The father of [[Author:Jeremy Taylor|Jeremy Taylor]] was a barber in Cambridge. Lords Tenterden and St. Leonards were both sons of barbers.
{{right|{{sc|J. H. Macmichael.}}|1em}}
{{dhr}}
&lt;section end=&quot;s3&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s4&quot; /&gt;{{sc|Scotch Words and English Commentators}} (10&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; S. i. 261, 321).—It seems to me that [[Author:Robert Burns (1759-1796)|Burns]], in

{{fine block|{{ppoem|[[The Poetical Works of Robert Burns/The Twa Dogs#NandQS10V1p375|The bum-clock hummed wi' lazy drone,]]
The kye stood rowtin' i' the loan,}}}}

drew his inspiration chiefly from the beginning of [[Author:Thomas Gray (1716-1771)|Gray's]] '[[Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard|Elegy]]'; but Gray and [[Author:William Collins (1721-1759)|Collins]] remembered the passage in '[[Macbeth (Shakespeare)|Macbeth]]'; and Gray has expressed himself as though he had the ode of Collins in his mind:—

{{fine block|{{ppoem|{{em|6}}[[Macbeth (1918) Yale/Text/Act III#NQs10Ip375|Ere the bat has flown]]
His cloistered flight; ere to black Hecate's summons
The shard-borne beetle, with his drowsy hums,
Hath rung night's yawning peal. 
&gt;&gt;[[Author:William Shakespeare (1564-1616)|Shakespeare.]]

[[An Elegy Wrote in a Country Church Yard (1751)#NQs10Ip375|The lowing herd winds slowly o'er the lea,]]
The ploughman homewards plods his weary way.
{{***|9|2em}}
Now fades the glimmering landscape on the sight,
And all the air a solemn stillness holds,
Save where the beetle wheels his droning flight,
And drowsy tinklings lull the distant folds. 
&gt;&gt;Gray.

[[The Poetical Works of William Collins/To Evening#Clermontv1p116|Now air is hushed, save where the weak-eyed bat]]
With short, shrill shriek, flits by on leathern wing;
{{em|4}}Or where the beetle winds
{{em|4}}His small but sullen horn. &gt;&gt;&gt;Collins.}}}}

{{right|{{sc|E. Yardley.}}|1em}}
{{dhr}}
&lt;section end=&quot;s4&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s5&quot; /&gt;{{sc|The &quot;Ship&quot; Hotel at Greenwich}} (9&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; S. xii. 306, 375, 415, 431; 10&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; S. i. 111).—Is not this preserved in an engraving in 'Pendennis,' vol. ii. p. 26, entitled 'Almost Perfect Happiness,' representing Foker on a balcony overlooking the river, engaged in conversation with Blanche Amory? Foker, it is said, &quot;had some delicious opportunities of conversation with her during the repast, and afterwards on the balcony of their room at the hotel&quot; (chap. ii.).
{{right|{{sc|John Pickford}}, M.A.|1em}}
{{fine|Newbourne Rectory, Woodbridge.}}
{{dhr}}
&lt;section end=&quot;s5&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s6&quot; /&gt;{{sc|Louis}} XVII. (10&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; S. i. 267).—The deeply calculated barbarity that caused the lingering death of this hapless prince is minutely described by Thiers in his 'History of the French Revolution.' With regard to {{sc|Madame Barbey-Boissier's}} firm belief in &quot;the survival of Louis XVII, son of Louis XVI., after his feigned death in the prison of the Temple on 8 June, 1795,&quot; I venture to think that the following note by [[Author:John Holland Rose|Mr. Holland Rose]], at vol. iii. p. 358 of his edition of [[Author:Thomas Carlyle|Carlyle's]] 'French Revolution,' will interest her:

{{fine block|&quot;The royalist reaction was further checked by the death of the little Louis XVII. (8 June, 1795) owing to the filth and darkness in which the Committee of General Security kept him of set purpose. This was a blow to the royalists, who cared little for the next claimant to the throne, the Comte de Provence. ''The stories of the rescue of Louis XVII. and substitution of an idiot boy are very far-fetched''. For that theory see Louis Blanc, 'La Rev. Fr.,' vol. xii. chap. ii.; also several perversely ingenious monographs.&quot;}}

The italics are mine.

{{right|{{sc|Henry Gerald Hope.}}|1em}}
{{fine|119, Elms Road, Clapham, S.W.}}
{{dhr}}
&lt;section end=&quot;s6&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s7&quot; /&gt;{{sc|Battlefield Sayings}} (10&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; S. i. 268).—It was on the day of the fatal battle of Pavia that Francis&amp;nbsp;I. wrote his mother a letter containing the oft-quoted words, &quot;All is lost, madam, save honour.&quot; &quot;Let posterity cheer for us&quot; is attributed to Washington, when some of the American troops cheered as the sword of Cornwallis was given by General O'Hara, at the surrender of Yorktown, 19 October, 1781, to the American commander-in-chief. The story has, however, been doubted. Several other such ''dicta'' will be found in [[Author:Samuel Arthur Bent|S. A. Bent's]] 'Short Sayings of Great Men,' 1882.
{{right|{{sc|J. H. MacMichael.}}|1em}}
{{dhr}}
&lt;section end=&quot;s7&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s8&quot; /&gt;{{sc|James Brindley}} (10&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; S. i. 310).—The editorial foot-note is partly incorrect. My copy of 'Lives of the Engineers,' by [[Author:Samuel Smiles|Dr. Smiles]], is the &quot;sixth thousand,&quot; published by Murray in 1862, and on p. 308 it is stated that [[Author:James Brindley|James Brindley]] first saw the light in a humble cottage standing about midway between the hamlet of Great Rocks and that of Tunstead, in the liberty of Thornsett, some three miles to the north-east of Buxton. The house in which he was born, in 1716, has long since fallen to ruins, the Brindley family&lt;section end=&quot;s8&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Published Weekly by JOHN C. FRANCIS, Bream's Buildings, Chancery Lane. B.C. ; and Printed by JOHN EDWARD FRANCH, 
Athemvum PreN, Bream's Buildings, Chancery Lane, B.C. Saturday, May 28, 1904.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Notes and Queries - Series 9 - Volume 2.djvu/539</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2872644</id>
    <revision>
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      <text bytes="4887" sha1="n32uk4jpqndk4g21c59fbypb8u7u148" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Wikisource-bot&quot; /&gt;{{rh|9&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; S. II. {{sc|Dec.}} 31, '98] | NOTES AND QUERIES. | 531}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;correct words by sneers that assert them to be vulgar.&quot; WALTER W. SKEAT. 

For nearly half a century I have known 
the word rung, and never before heard of 
round. Now I do, I think it is finicking and 
inexpressive, and certainly shall never adopt 
it in the place of the fine sounding and 
expressive rung. Sound has also the very 
great disadvantage in ray eyes of being used 
to express various other things. 

RALPH THOMAS. 

&quot;SLACK UP &quot;(9 th S. ii. 468). In the course 
of twenty years' service afloat I have never 
heard the term &quot; slack up &quot; used in the sense 
of &quot;pull in.&quot; Perhaps MR. THOMAS has heard 
take the slack up,&quot; which does mean &quot; pull 
in,&quot; while &quot;slack up&quot; alone means what it 
says. &quot; Ease up,&quot; &quot;ease out,&quot; are also nearly 
synonymous with &quot; slack up,&quot; but the act is 
to be done more gradually. R.N. 

[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer]], the author of '[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]],' published his 'Marine Dictionary' in 1769, and by an edition issued in 1815 &quot;slack&quot; implies a decrease in tension or velocity. This explanation is adopted by Arthur Young in his 'Nautical Dictionary' (Dundee, 1846), and by Admiral W. H. Smyth in his 'Sailor's Word-Book' (London, 1867). 
{{right|{{sc|Everard Home Coleman.}} |1em}}
{{em|{{fine|71, Brecknock Road.}}
{{dhr}} 

THE GENEALOGY OP LORD CURZON (9 th S. 
ii. 467). William Penn, the Quaker, was son 
of Sir William Penn, whose great-great-grand- 
father was a younger son of the family living 
at Penn. There is no nearer connexion with 
the main line. The wife of Sir Nathanael Cur- 
zon, daughter and ultimate heiress of Will. 
Penn of Penn, must have been daughter of the 
William, son of John. The latter died 1641. 
As Sir Nathanael was sheriff of Denbigh in 
1700 the dates would tally. The estate of 
Penn went to&quot; Lord Scarsdale, who married 
the sister and heiress of Roger Penn, the last 
male owner of Penn of the name of the family 
(died 1732). The Quaker was born on Tower 
Hill. T. W. 

Aston Clinton. 


CURIOSITIES OF CATALOGUING (9 th S. ii. 206). 
These are most excellent fooling. To them 
might be added the following, which, though 
but crambe repetita, will bear retelling, and 
may possibly be new to some people. It will 
be remembered that when Miss Edgeworth 
published her essay on 'Irish Bulls' (blunders) 
the secretary of the Agricultural Society 
forthwith ordered a copy of it for the library 
of that society, thinking it could not fail to 


throw a useful light on the subject of cattle 
breeding. 

Then as to blunders in catalogues. It is on 
record that an eminent German bookselling 
firm solemnly classed Rider Haggard's ' King 
Solomon's Mines ' under the heading of alttes- 
tamentliche Literatur. PATRICK MAXWELL. 
Bath. 

In one of the monthly catalogues of that 
most excellent bookseller in Vienna, Gerold, 
I found under the heading 'Religion and 
Theology' an unexpected old friend, 
&quot;Handley Cross 'Selections from.&quot; What 
would our dear Jorrocks have said on finding 
himself sandwiched between Thomas Aquinas 
and Dr. Copinger ! MYRMIDON. 

In the catalogue of Mr. Frank Hollings, 
7, Great Turnstile, W.C. : 

&quot; Quiller Couch. Dramatists of the Present Day. 
Reprinted from the Athenaeum. First edition, 8vo., 
cloth, uncut, extremely rare.&quot; 

This book is by the late Thomas Purnell, and 
has no more to do with Mr. Quiller Couch 
than with Sir William Harcourt. 

In that of Mr. Wm. F. Clay, Teviot Place, 
Edinburgh : 

&quot;Knight (Thos. B., M.D.). Pseudodoxia Epi- 
demica, &amp;c. 

This was at first a teaser. It is, however, the 
well-known work of Sir Thomas Browne, Knt., 
the dignity being taken for a surname. 

Such things can, of course, be indefinitely 
multiplied. H. T. 

PHILIP THICKNESSE (9 th S. ii. 341, 454, 495). 
Allow me to observe that a book has 
recently been published upon this fort and 
its governors, the 'History of Landguard 
Fort in Suffolk,' by Major J. H. Leslie 
(London, Eyre &amp; Spottiswoode, 1898), which 
contains an exhaustive account. 

JOHN PICKFORD, M.A. 
Newbourne Rectory, Woodbridge. 


HORACE WALPOLE AND HIS EDITORS (8 th S. 
xi. 346, 492 ; xii. 104, 290, 414, 493 ; 9 th S. i. 91 ; 
ii. 75, 332). Horace Walpole's letter to the 
Rev. W. Mason, assigned by both Mitford 
and Cunningham to 16 May, 1778 (Cunning- 
ham's ed., vol. vii. p. 66), is misdated. It 
belongs to the previous year, as is evident 
from the following considerations : 1. Horace 
Walpole refers to the &quot;re-enshrinement of 
the bones of poor William of Hatfield,&quot; and 
states his willingness to bear the expense of 
the restoration of the monument. This re- 
storation was proposed by Mason in his letter 
to Horace Walpole of 12 May, 1777 (see Mit- 
ford's edition of the 'Correspondence of Mason 
and Walpole,' vol. i. p. 291) ; and on 22 May,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{center|Largest Murder Trial in the History of the United States.

Scene during Court Martial of 64 members of the 24th. Infantry U.S.A. on trial for mutiny and murder of 17 people at Houston Tex. Aug 23, 1917.

Trial Held in Gift Chapel, Ft Sam Houston.

Trial Started---Nov 1, 1917. Brig. Genl. George K. Hunter, Presiding.}}
{| {{ts|ma}}
|{{ts|pr2}}|Col. J. D. Hull, Judge Advocate.&lt;br /&gt;{{ditto|Col. J. D. Hull, Judge|Maj. D. V. Sutphin, Asst.|l}} {{ditto|Advocate}}
|{{ts|bl}}|Counsel for Defense,&lt;br /&gt;Maj. Harry S. Grier.
|}
{{c|Prisoners guarded by 19th Infantry. Co. &quot;C.&quot; Capt. Carl J. Adler.

This photo copyrighted by W. C. Lloyd, San Antonio Tex. Reproduction {{u|not}} allowed.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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more than a poetic colouring; and we think no one &quot;condemned 
''reluctant'' to the faithless sea,&quot; would ever have turned out so 
thorough a sailor, and have spent nearly his whole life afloat. 
Be this as it may, while yet a boy he was apprenticed on board 
a merchantman at Leith. Subsequently he went into a ship in 
which Campbell, the author of Lexiphanes, was purser, who 
observing his quickness took him as his servant, encouraged and 
assisted him in studying, and used to boast of having been his 
teacher. Before Falconer had reached the age of eighteen he 
obtained the post of second mate in the ''Britannia'', a merchant 
vessel engaged in the Levantine trade. This vessel was shipwrecked 
on her voyage from Alexandria to Venice, off Cape 
Colonna; he and two others of the crew only being saved. The 
terrible incidents of that scene were deeply impressed on the 
mind and imagination of the young man, and his marvellous 
and vivid descriptions of them have conferred on him an enduring 
fame. Returning to his native city, he made his first essays 
in authorship. In 1751 he published an elegy on the death of 
the prince of Wales, and some small pieces, in the ''Gentleman's Magazine''. 
Other pieces are attributed to him, but without any 
sufficient warrant. It is stated that Falconer again went to 
sea in the interval between this and 1760, in the spring of 
which year he published his poem, the &quot;Shipwreck,&quot; and dedicated 
it to the duke of York, then rear-admiral of the blue. 
Such a poem from such a man turned the eyes of the literary 
world upon the author, and the ''Monthly Review'', then the leading 
exponent of literary criticism, spoke of it in terms of high 
eulogy. The duke became his patron, and obtained for him in 
the ensuing summer the post of midshipman in the royal navy, 
on board the ''Royal George'' commanded by Sir Edward George 
Hawke. Even here the muse found a place. Withdrawing 
himself at times from the ruder scenes around him, he would 
sit between the cable-trees and the ship's side and indulge in 
poetic composition. Thus it was he wrote his &quot;Ode on the 
Duke of York's second departure from England.&quot; In 1763 
peace was proclaimed, and Falconer's ship was paid off; but he 
quickly obtained the post of purser to the ''Glory'', and about 
the same time married a young lady of the name of Hicks, 
the daughter of a surgeon at Sheerness. The marriage was a 
happy one. She was a woman of good sense and strong affection; 
she soothed and sustained her husband during many a 
struggle with the trials that beset a poor author, and had the 
reward in her widowed old age, of deriving a competency from 
one of her husband's publications. After a time the ''Glory'' 
was laid up in Chatham, but Falconer did not even then leave 
her. By the kindness of Commissioner Hanway, the captain's 
cabin was fitted up for the poet, and here he lived and studied, 
working assiduously at his &quot;Marine Dictionary,&quot; a book of great 
merit and value, which he published in 1769. In the interval, 
Falconer wrote the &quot;Demagogue,&quot; published in 1765, and went 
to try his fortune in London. He does not appear to have been 
successful, though in 1768 he received a proposal from Mr. 
Murray, who was then about to establish the business which in 
his son's day became so eminent, to join him as a partner. Why 
this offer was declined is unknown—possibly his appointment to 
the pursership of the ''Aurora'' may account for it. At all events 
on the 20th September, 1769, he sailed from England—never 
more to return. The ''Aurora'' was never heard of afterwards; 
whether she foundered in the Mozambique channel, was burned, 
or cast away on a reef of rocks near Macao—for all these fatalities 
were conjectured—none can say. No one escaped to tell in 
verse or prose the horrors of that shipwreck. The fame of Falconer 
rests on the &quot;Shipwreck,&quot; and rests on it securely. While 
we dissent from the extravagant praise lavished upon it in his 
own day, we think that it is undervalued in ours. As the production 
of a half-taught sailor, its diction is surprisingly good, 
inflated no doubt occasionally, and disfigured with the conventional 
vice of mythology then prevalent, but now happily extinct; 
but the wonderful adaptation of naval phraseology to poetic 
uses, the harmony of its rhythm, and above all, the terrible and 
minute fidelity of its vivid pictures, entitle the &quot;Shipwreck&quot; to 
a high place as a poetic composition. A singular commendation 
is given of it by Clarke. &quot;It is,&quot; he says, &quot;of inestimable value 
to this country, since it contains within itself the rudiments of 
navigation; if not sufficient to form a complete seaman, it may 
certainly be considered as the grammar of his professional science. 
I have heard many experienced officers declare, that the rules 
and maxims delivered in this poem for the conduct of a ship 
in the most perilous emergency, form the best, indeed the only 
opinions which a skilful mariner should adopt.&quot; In appearance, 
Falconer was hard-featured, awkward, and blunt in manners, but 
his speech was singularly fluent, simple, and impressive; and 
though educated only in English, he was never at a loss to understand 
French, Spanish, Italian, or German.—[[Author:John Francis Waller|J. F. W.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348Zcontin&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349B&quot; /&gt;FALCONET, {{sc|Camille}}, a French physician, was born at 
Lyons in 1671, and died in 1762. After completing his curriculum 
he settled at Lyons, whence in 1707 he went to Paris, 
where he became one of the king's consulting physicians, &amp;c. 
He was received into the medical faculty in 1709, and seven 
years afterwards was chosen a member of the Académie des 
Inscriptions et Belles-lettres. Falconet had made an immense 
collection of books, and bequeathed about eleven thousand volumes 
to the bibliothéque du roi. He devoted much of his leisure time to literary 
pursuits, and published a number of works.—[[Author:Robert Martin|R. M., A.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;349B&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349C&quot; /&gt;FALCONET, {{sc|Etienne-Maurice}}, was born at Vivay, Switzerland, 
in 1716, and died at Paris, January 24, 1791. Falconet 
studied sculpture under Lemoine of Paris. His early works, 
whether classical in subject, religious, or monumental, are 
marked by the naturalistic style then prevalent, and may be 
called picturesque, rather than sculpturesque. At the age of 
fifty he removed to St. Petersburg, on the invitation of the 
Empress Catherine II., in order to execute the colossal equestrian 
statue of Peter the Great. This work occupied him twelve 
years, the casting of the statue, and the removal and erecting of 
the enormous granite block which forms its pedestal, having, no 
less than the modelling of the statue, to be superintended by the 
sculptor himself. This is Falconet's greatest work, and though 
open to criticism, it is perhaps the most impressive work of its 
class erected in the eighteenth century. In 1778 he returned 
to Paris, but thenceforward devoted himself rather to the literature 
than the practice of his art. In 1783 he was struck with 
paralysis, as he was about to set out on a journey to Italy. He 
survived eight years, retaining his mental powers unimpaired. 
Falconet wrote &quot;Réflexions sur la Sculpture,&quot; which have been 
translated into English and German; a commentary on books 
34-36 of Pliny, republished in 2 vols. 8vo, 1772, with notes on 
the sculpture and painting of the ancients, &amp;c. His collected 
writings were published in 6 vols. 8vo, Lausanne, 1782; and 
again, with his life prefixed, in 3 vols. 8vo, Paris, 1808. Few 
examples of his sculpture are in this country, but casts of his 
group of &quot;Milon of Crotona,&quot; and one or two other works, are 
in the Crystal Palace at Sydenham. His grand work, &quot;The 
Assumption,&quot; in the church of St. Roch at Paris, and some 
others in the churches of that city, were destroyed during the 
first revolution.—[[Author:James Thorne|J. T—e.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;349C&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349D&quot; /&gt;FALCONIA, {{sc|Proba}}, a Latin poetess of the fourth century, 
was born at Hortanum in Etruria. She is said to have been 
the wife of the proconsul Adelphius; and though considerable 
obscurity rests upon her history, it seems certain that she was 
not the Proba who was accused of opening the gates of Rome to 
the invading Goths. The work which she composed under the 
title of &quot;Cento Virgilianus,&quot; was a version of the gospel history 
in Latin verse, ingeniously fabricated of words and phrases culled 
out of the writings of Virgil. It has been published by Wolfius 
in his Mulierum Græcarum Fragmenta.—[[Author:William Bruce|W. B.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;349D&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349E&quot; /&gt;FALEIRO, {{sc|Ruy}}, a Portuguese geographer, born towards the 
end of the fifteenth century; died in 1523. He had already 
attained distinction as a mathematician when he became associated 
with Magellan, and, like him, forsook the court of Portugal 
and offered his services to Charles V. He conceived the idea of 
reaching the Moluccas by a new route, and in the convention 
entered into with the emperor, he was placed on the same footing 
with Magellan himself, receiving the distinction of the order of 
St. Jago. But before the expedition sailed, a misunderstanding 
arose between the two commanders, and (whether as cause or 
consequence of this is uncertain) his reason became impaired. 
After Magellan had sailed Faleiro returned to Portugal, where 
he was thrown into prison. He afterwards returned to Spain, 
and died in an asylum for lunatics.—[[Author:Frederic Meriton White|F. M. W.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;349E&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349F&quot; /&gt;FALETTI, {{sc|Geronimo}}. See {{sc|Falletti}}.
&lt;section end=&quot;349F&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349Zcontin&quot; /&gt;FALIERI or FALETRI, one of the most ancient of the 
noble families of Venice. One {{sc|Falieri}} was of the number of 
the twelve electors who chose the first doge, Paulus Lucas 
Anafestus, in the year 697. Several members of this house 
were subsequently raised to the highest dignities in the state
&lt;section end=&quot;349Zcontin&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133649</id>
      <parentid>15133642</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:12:06Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Chrisguise</username>
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      <text bytes="10131" sha1="crxpbeo9ld3q9gyw4f6efi7m45dkwqb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Klarm768&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{gap|6em}}FAL|323|FAL{{gap|6em}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;348Zcontin&quot; /&gt;in the &quot;Shipwreck&quot; may be applied to himself and taken to be more than a poetic colouring; and we think no one &quot;condemned ''reluctant'' to the faithless sea,&quot; would ever have turned out so thorough a sailor, and have spent nearly his whole life afloat. Be this as it may, while yet a boy he was apprenticed on board a merchantman at Leith. Subsequently he went into a ship in which Campbell, the author of Lexiphanes, was purser, who observing his quickness took him as his servant, encouraged and assisted him in studying, and used to boast of having been his teacher. Before Falconer had reached the age of eighteen he obtained the post of second mate in the ''Britannia'', a merchant vessel engaged in the Levantine trade. This vessel was shipwrecked on her voyage from Alexandria to Venice, off Cape Colonna; he and two others of the crew only being saved. The terrible incidents of that scene were deeply impressed on the mind and imagination of the young man, and his marvellous and vivid descriptions of them have conferred on him an enduring fame. Returning to his native city, he made his first essays in authorship. In 1751 he published an elegy on the death of the prince of Wales, and some small pieces, in the ''Gentleman's Magazine''. Other pieces are attributed to him, but without any sufficient warrant. It is stated that Falconer again went to sea in the interval between this and 1760, in the spring of which year he published his poem, the &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]],&quot; and dedicated it to the duke of York, then rear-admiral of the blue. Such a poem from such a man turned the eyes of the literary world upon the author, and the ''Monthly Review'', then the leading exponent of literary criticism, spoke of it in terms of high eulogy. The duke became his patron, and obtained for him in the ensuing summer the post of midshipman in the royal navy, on board the ''Royal George'' commanded by Sir Edward George Hawke. Even here the muse found a place. Withdrawing himself at times from the ruder scenes around him, he would sit between the cable-trees and the ship's side and indulge in poetic composition. Thus it was he wrote his &quot;Ode on the Duke of York's second departure from England.&quot; In 1763 peace was proclaimed, and Falconer's ship was paid off; but he quickly obtained the post of purser to the ''Glory'', and about the same time married a young lady of the name of Hicks, the daughter of a surgeon at Sheerness. The marriage was a happy one. She was a woman of good sense and strong affection; she soothed and sustained her husband during many a struggle with the trials that beset a poor author, and had the reward in her widowed old age, of deriving a competency from one of her husband's publications. After a time the ''Glory'' was laid up in Chatham, but Falconer did not even then leave her. By the kindness of Commissioner Hanway, the captain's cabin was fitted up for the poet, and here he lived and studied, working assiduously at his &quot;Marine Dictionary,&quot; a book of great merit and value, which he published in 1769. In the interval, Falconer wrote the &quot;Demagogue,&quot; published in 1765, and went to try his fortune in London. He does not appear to have been successful, though in 1768 he received a proposal from Mr. Murray, who was then about to establish the business which in his son's day became so eminent, to join him as a partner. Why this offer was declined is unknown—possibly his appointment to the pursership of the ''Aurora'' may account for it. At all events on the 20th September, 1769, he sailed from England—never more to return. The ''Aurora'' was never heard of afterwards; whether she foundered in the Mozambique channel, was burned, or cast away on a reef of rocks near Macao—for all these fatalities were conjectured—none can say. No one escaped to tell in verse or prose the horrors of that shipwreck. The fame of Falconer rests on the &quot;Shipwreck,&quot; and rests on it securely. While we dissent from the extravagant praise lavished upon it in his own day, we think that it is undervalued in ours. As the production of a half-taught sailor, its diction is surprisingly good, inflated no doubt occasionally, and disfigured with the conventional vice of mythology then prevalent, but now happily extinct; but the wonderful adaptation of naval phraseology to poetic uses, the harmony of its rhythm, and above all, the terrible and minute fidelity of its vivid pictures, entitle the &quot;Shipwreck&quot; to a high place as a poetic composition. A singular commendation is given of it by Clarke. &quot;It is,&quot; he says, &quot;of inestimable value to this country, since it contains within itself the rudiments of navigation; if not sufficient to form a complete seaman, it may certainly be considered as the grammar of his professional science. I have heard many experienced officers declare, that the rules and maxims delivered in this poem for the conduct of a ship in the most perilous emergency, form the best, indeed the only opinions which a skilful mariner should adopt.&quot; In appearance, Falconer was hard-featured, awkward, and blunt in manners, but his speech was singularly fluent, simple, and impressive; and though educated only in English, he was never at a loss to understand French, Spanish, Italian, or German.—[[Author:John Francis Waller|J. F. W.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348Zcontin&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349B&quot; /&gt;FALCONET, {{sc|Camille}}, a French physician, was born at Lyons in 1671, and died in 1762. After completing his curriculum he settled at Lyons, whence in 1707 he went to Paris, where he became one of the king's consulting physicians, &amp;c. He was received into the medical faculty in 1709, and seven years afterwards was chosen a member of the Académie des Inscriptions et Belles-lettres. Falconet had made an immense collection of books, and bequeathed about eleven thousand volumes to the bibliothéque du roi. He devoted much of his leisure time to literary pursuits, and published a number of works.—[[Author:Robert Martin|R. M., A.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;349B&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349C&quot; /&gt;FALCONET, {{sc|Etienne-Maurice}}, was born at Vivay, Switzerland, in 1716, and died at Paris, January 24, 1791. Falconet studied sculpture under Lemoine of Paris. His early works, whether classical in subject, religious, or monumental, are marked by the naturalistic style then prevalent, and may be called picturesque, rather than sculpturesque. At the age of fifty he removed to St. Petersburg, on the invitation of the Empress Catherine II., in order to execute the colossal equestrian statue of Peter the Great. This work occupied him twelve years, the casting of the statue, and the removal and erecting of the enormous granite block which forms its pedestal, having, no less than the modelling of the statue, to be superintended by the sculptor himself. This is Falconet's greatest work, and though open to criticism, it is perhaps the most impressive work of its class erected in the eighteenth century. In 1778 he returned to Paris, but thenceforward devoted himself rather to the literature than the practice of his art. In 1783 he was struck with paralysis, as he was about to set out on a journey to Italy. He survived eight years, retaining his mental powers unimpaired. Falconet wrote &quot;Réflexions sur la Sculpture,&quot; which have been translated into English and German; a commentary on books 34-36 of Pliny, republished in 2 vols. 8vo, 1772, with notes on the sculpture and painting of the ancients, &amp;c. His collected writings were published in 6 vols. 8vo, Lausanne, 1782; and again, with his life prefixed, in 3 vols. 8vo, Paris, 1808. Few examples of his sculpture are in this country, but casts of his group of &quot;Milon of Crotona,&quot; and one or two other works, are in the Crystal Palace at Sydenham. His grand work, &quot;The Assumption,&quot; in the church of St. Roch at Paris, and some others in the churches of that city, were destroyed during the first revolution.—[[Author:James Thorne|J. T—e.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;349C&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349D&quot; /&gt;FALCONIA, {{sc|Proba}}, a Latin poetess of the fourth century, was born at Hortanum in Etruria. She is said to have been the wife of the proconsul Adelphius; and though considerable obscurity rests upon her history, it seems certain that she was not the Proba who was accused of opening the gates of Rome to the invading Goths. The work which she composed under the title of &quot;Cento Virgilianus,&quot; was a version of the gospel history in Latin verse, ingeniously fabricated of words and phrases culled out of the writings of Virgil. It has been published by Wolfius in his Mulierum Græcarum Fragmenta.—[[Author:William Bruce|W. B.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;349D&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349E&quot; /&gt;FALEIRO, {{sc|Ruy}}, a Portuguese geographer, born towards the end of the fifteenth century; died in 1523. He had already attained distinction as a mathematician when he became associated with Magellan, and, like him, forsook the court of Portugal and offered his services to Charles V. He conceived the idea of reaching the Moluccas by a new route, and in the convention entered into with the emperor, he was placed on the same footing with Magellan himself, receiving the distinction of the order of St. Jago. But before the expedition sailed, a misunderstanding arose between the two commanders, and (whether as cause or consequence of this is uncertain) his reason became impaired. After Magellan had sailed Faleiro returned to Portugal, where he was thrown into prison. He afterwards returned to Spain, and died in an asylum for lunatics.—[[Author:Frederic Meriton White|F. M. W.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;349E&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349F&quot; /&gt;FALETTI, {{sc|Geronimo}}. See {{sc|Falletti}}.
&lt;section end=&quot;349F&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;349Zcontin&quot; /&gt;FALIERI or FALETRI, one of the most ancient of the noble families of Venice. One {{sc|Falieri}} was of the number of the twelve electors who chose the first doge, Paulus Lucas Anafestus, in the year 697. Several members of this house were subsequently raised to the highest dignities in the state&lt;section end=&quot;349Zcontin&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Imperialdictiona02eadi Brandeis.pdf/348</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="10548" sha1="2ic8rcl0v0gg5ngh6x9p9cz1rs66f0r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Klarm768&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{gap|6em}}FAL|322|FAL{{gap|6em}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;348Aa&quot; /&gt;addressed sonnets to her while in prison, and also a kind of 
lyric romance, in the form of an epistle.—[[Author:Frederic Meriton White|F. M. W.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348Aa&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348B&quot; /&gt;FALCK, {{sc|Anton Reinhard}}, Baron, a Dutch statesman, was 
born at Utrecht in 1776, and died in 1843. A short time after 
he had completed his education he was appointed secretary to the 
Spanish embassy. On his return home he found his country about 
to be handed over by Napoleon to one of his brothers. Falck was 
unwilling to be a party to the usurpation by rendering direct 
service to the new government, but accepted the post of secretary-general 
for Indian affairs; a rich sinecure that allowed him 
leisure to cultivate his favourite literary pursuits. After the 
departure of the French forces in 1813, Falck became secretary 
to the provisional government, and when the kingdom of the Low 
Countries was organized, he was appointed secretary of state. 
In 1818 the king combined in his person the ministry of the 
colonies, of public instruction, and of national industry. He 
applied himself to the promotion of education, but the increasing 
difficulties of his position forced him to resign He was ambassador 
to Brussels from 1840 till his death.—[[Author:Robert Martin|R. M., A.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348B&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348C&quot; /&gt;FALCK, {{sc|Jeremias}}, line-engraver, was born at Dantzig in 
1629, and died in 1709. He learned engraving in Paris under 
Chaveau, and practised his art in Holland, and for a while in 
Denmark and Sweden. Some of his best historical plates were 
engraved for the cabinet of Reynst. Among them are &quot;St. 
John Preaching in the Wilderness,&quot; after A. Bloemart; &quot;Concert 
of Music,&quot; after Guercino; and &quot;The Cyclops,&quot; after Caravaggio. 
Some of his best portraits are those of Queen Christina of Sweden, 
Prince Charles Gustavus, the Prince Palatine, Count Oxenstierna, 
Tycho Brahe, and other northern notabilities, chiefly from the 
originals of D. Beck. A fuller list of his plates will be found in 
Nagler's Künstler Lexicon.—[[Author:James Thorne|J. T—e.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348C&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348D&quot; /&gt;FALCK, {{sc|Niels Nik}}., a Danish statsraad and lawyer, born 
25th November, 1784, at Emmerlöv in the county of Tönder. 
He was tutor in the family of Count Moltke at Rütschau; after 
which he studied law, and in 1809 passed his juridical examination. 
He was appointed professor of Roman and German law 
in the new university of Christiana; but owing to the separation 
of Norway from Denmark in 1814, he never occupied the post, 
and was appointed instead ordinary professor of jurisprudence 
at Kiel. He took an active part in politics, especially in the 
Schleswig-Holstein question. He died 5th May, 1850. As a 
jurist he ranks high. His most important works are—&quot;Juristische 
Encyklopädie;&quot; and &quot;Hand-buchdes Schleswig-Holsteinischer 
Privatrechts,&quot; a clear statement of the rights both of 
Schleswig and Holstein, which he left incomplete.—[[Author:Mary Howitt|M. H.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348D&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348E&quot; /&gt;FALCKENSTEIN, J. H. See {{sc|Falkenstein}}.
&lt;section end=&quot;348E&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348F&quot; /&gt;FALCONBRIDGE, {{sc|Mary}}, Countess of, third daughter of 
Oliver Cromwell, from whom she inherited the energy of character 
which ennobled her personal attractions, was born in 1636. 
In 1657 she married Thomas, Viscount Falconbridge, who 
commanded a regiment under the Protector, and became one of 
the counsellors of his son Richard. When the power of the new 
protector waned before the discontent of the old Cromwellian 
officers, she retired with her husband to his estates in Cambridgeshire; 
where they were joined by her brother Henry, and 
became decided, though secret favourers of the Restoration. She 
died in 1712.—[[Author:William Bruce|W. B.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348F&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348G&quot; /&gt;FALCONE, {{sc|Angelo}}, a celebrated battle painter, was born 
at Naples in 1600, and became the pupil of Spagnoletto. He 
and his scholars, of whom Salvator Rosa was one, took part in 
Masaniello's insurrection against the Spaniards, and formed 
themselves into a company known as the ''compagnia della morte''. 
After the death of their leader, Falcone and Salvator 
fled to Rome; and Falcone afterwards visited Paris, where he 
obtained the protection of Colbert, who procured him his 
pardon, and enabled him to return to Naples. Falcone painted 
the portrait of Masaniello. He died at Naples in 1665. There 
are a few prints by him, and some frescos; but he was chiefly 
distinguished as a battle painter. His fame was so great in 
this respect in his own country, that he was named the Oracle 
of battles—''Oracolo delle battaglie''. The Louvre possesses one 
of his battle-pieces. His works are distinguished for their 
vigour and colour, and are sometimes confounded with those of 
his great scholar, Salvator Rosa.—[[Author:Ralph Nicholson Wornum|R. N. W.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348G&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348H&quot; /&gt;FALCONE, {{sc|Benedetto di}}, a Jewish chronicler, was born 
at Benevento in the twelfth century. His writings are very 
graphic, although his latinity is very inferior even for the times 
in which he lived. The annals of Benevento from 1102 to 1140 
which he wrote, have been published, together with those of 
three other chroniclers, under the title of &quot;Antiqui Chronologi 
quatuor;&quot; and Muratori included them in his Rerum Italicarum scriptores. 
His death has not been recorded.—[[Author:Augustus Cesar Marani|A. C. M.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348H&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348I&quot; /&gt;FALCONER, {{sc|Hugh}}, M.D., a distinguished naturalist. He 
was educated for the medical profession at the university of Edinburgh, where he took the degree of M.D. He went out as assistant-surgeon in the service of the East India Company, and whilst in India became distinguished for his researches in geology and botany. His geological researches were made in company with Sir Thomas Proby Cautley; and the papers containing the 
results of their discoveries have been written conjointly. These 
researches are principally confined to the discovery of an immense 
number of fossil remains in the Sivalik hills of the Sub-Himalayan 
mountains. Separate papers on the Sivatherium Hippopotamus, 
Camel Tiger, Anoplotherium, and Colossochelys (a 
gigantic tortoise) were published in the proceedings of the geological 
and other societies. A resumé of these researches, with 
much additional matter, was published in the Fauna Antiqua 
Sivalensis, or fossil zoology of the Sivalik hills. In 1845 Dr. 
Falconer was appointed superintendent of the East India Company's 
botanical gardens at Calcutta. In this position he 
remained for a few years, and then returned to England to 
cultivate the science of palæontology, which he much enriched 
by his contributions. He died January 31, 1865.—[[Author:Edwin Lankester|E. L.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348I&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348J&quot; /&gt;FALCONER, {{sc|Thomas}}, was born in 1736 at Chester, his 
father being recorder of the city. His passion for literary 
studies was the ruling principle of his life; and the protracted 
sickness under which he laboured, though it allowed him scarcely 
a moment's respite from pain, could not conquer his devotion to 
his favourite pursuits. Hour after hour was spent in reading, 
when it was only in a kneeling position that he obtained some 
mitigation of his bodily sufferings. He published, in 1786, 
&quot;Devotions for the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper,&quot; to which 
a practical digest of the book of Psalms was appended. The 
popularity of this work, and its extensive circulation, have 
caused it to be frequently reprinted. It was followed, at an 
interval of ten years, by &quot;Chronological Tables from the time 
of Solomon to that of Alexander.&quot; He wrote, also, an essay 
on &quot;Pliny's account of the temple of Diana at Ephesus,&quot; which 
was inserted in the ''Archæologia''. But the work on which he 
expended his greatest attention was an edition of Strabo. It 
was still unfinished at his death in 1796, but was published 
eleven years afterwards by his nephew.—[[Author:William Bruce|W. B.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348J&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348K&quot; /&gt;FALCONER, {{sc|William}}, a distinguished English physician. 
He was born in 1744, and was the son of William Falconer, 
recorder of Chester. He practised as a physician at Bath, and 
was well known throughout the world for his medical writings. 
One of his most celebrated works was entitled &quot;Remarks on the 
Influence of Climate, Situation, Nature of Country, Population, 
Food, &amp;c., on the disposition and temper, manners, laws and 
customs, government, and religion of mankind.&quot; This was 
published in 1782. In 1788 he obtained the Fothergillian 
medal of the Medical Society of London for his dissertation on 
the influence of the passions upon the disorders of the body. 
He also wrote a &quot;Practical Dissertation on the Medicinal Effects 
of the Bath Waters.&quot; He was remarkable for his sound judgment 
and clear and comprehensive views, and was held in high 
esteem, not only in the city in which he lived, but wherever his 
writings were known. He died in 1824.—His only son, the 
Rev. {{sc|Thomas Falconer}}, after having taken holy orders, took 
a medical degree in 1823, and practised medicine in Bath. He 
died in 1839.—The family reputation is sustained by his son, Dr. 
R. {{sc|Wilbraham Falconer}}, who is in practice as a physician at Bath, 
and well known for his intelligence and skill.—[[Author:Edwin Lankester|E. L.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348K&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348Zcontin&quot; /&gt;[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|FALCONER, {{sc|William}}]], a British poet, was born in the Netherbow, Edinburgh, in the year 1730. The lowliness and obscurity of his origin, and the occupation in which his life was spent, have conspired to render the memorials of him but scanty for the biographer. The son of a poor barber who had several other children to maintain, two of whom were deaf and dumb, William, left early an orphan, had little of regular education. He stated himself in after life, that his education had been confined merely to English reading, writing, and a little arithmetic. The neighbouring port of Leith was often visited by him, and chance, or necessity, or it may be a natural taste, directed him to a sea-life. There is no reason to suppose that he had any strong indisposition to seafaring, as has been alleged, except the lines&lt;section end=&quot;348Zcontin&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="10421" sha1="chi50m1jrutfnln8vgw2sujtsvv2erb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Klarm768&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{gap|6em}}FAL|322|FAL{{gap|6em}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;348Aa&quot; /&gt;addressed sonnets to her while in prison, and also a kind of lyric romance, in the form of an epistle.—[[Author:Frederic Meriton White|F. M. W.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348Aa&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348B&quot; /&gt;FALCK, {{sc|Anton Reinhard}}, Baron, a Dutch statesman, was born at Utrecht in 1776, and died in 1843. A short time after he had completed his education he was appointed secretary to the Spanish embassy. On his return home he found his country about to be handed over by Napoleon to one of his brothers. Falck was unwilling to be a party to the usurpation by rendering direct service to the new government, but accepted the post of secretary-general for Indian affairs; a rich sinecure that allowed him leisure to cultivate his favourite literary pursuits. After the departure of the French forces in 1813, Falck became secretary to the provisional government, and when the kingdom of the Low Countries was organized, he was appointed secretary of state. In 1818 the king combined in his person the ministry of the colonies, of public instruction, and of national industry. He applied himself to the promotion of education, but the increasing difficulties of his position forced him to resign He was ambassador to Brussels from 1840 till his death.—[[Author:Robert Martin|R. M., A.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348B&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348C&quot; /&gt;FALCK, {{sc|Jeremias}}, line-engraver, was born at Dantzig in 1629, and died in 1709. He learned engraving in Paris under Chaveau, and practised his art in Holland, and for a while in Denmark and Sweden. Some of his best historical plates were engraved for the cabinet of Reynst. Among them are &quot;St. John Preaching in the Wilderness,&quot; after A. Bloemart; &quot;Concert of Music,&quot; after Guercino; and &quot;The Cyclops,&quot; after Caravaggio. Some of his best portraits are those of Queen Christina of Sweden, Prince Charles Gustavus, the Prince Palatine, Count Oxenstierna, Tycho Brahe, and other northern notabilities, chiefly from the originals of D. Beck. A fuller list of his plates will be found in Nagler's Künstler Lexicon.—[[Author:James Thorne|J. T—e.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348C&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348D&quot; /&gt;FALCK, {{sc|Niels Nik}}., a Danish statsraad and lawyer, born 25th November, 1784, at Emmerlöv in the county of Tönder. He was tutor in the family of Count Moltke at Rütschau; after which he studied law, and in 1809 passed his juridical examination. He was appointed professor of Roman and German law in the new university of Christiana; but owing to the separation of Norway from Denmark in 1814, he never occupied the post, and was appointed instead ordinary professor of jurisprudence at Kiel. He took an active part in politics, especially in the Schleswig-Holstein question. He died 5th May, 1850. As a jurist he ranks high. His most important works are—&quot;Juristische Encyklopädie;&quot; and &quot;Hand-buchdes Schleswig-Holsteinischer Privatrechts,&quot; a clear statement of the rights both of Schleswig and Holstein, which he left incomplete.—[[Author:Mary Howitt|M. H.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348D&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348E&quot; /&gt;FALCKENSTEIN, J. H. See {{sc|Falkenstein}}.
&lt;section end=&quot;348E&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348F&quot; /&gt;FALCONBRIDGE, {{sc|Mary}}, Countess of, third daughter of Oliver Cromwell, from whom she inherited the energy of character which ennobled her personal attractions, was born in 1636. In 1657 she married Thomas, Viscount Falconbridge, who commanded a regiment under the Protector, and became one of the counsellors of his son Richard. When the power of the new protector waned before the discontent of the old Cromwellian officers, she retired with her husband to his estates in Cambridgeshire; where they were joined by her brother Henry, and became decided, though secret favourers of the Restoration. She died in 1712.—[[Author:William Bruce|W. B.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348F&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348G&quot; /&gt;FALCONE, {{sc|Angelo}}, a celebrated battle painter, was born at Naples in 1600, and became the pupil of Spagnoletto. He and his scholars, of whom Salvator Rosa was one, took part in Masaniello's insurrection against the Spaniards, and formed themselves into a company known as the ''compagnia della morte''. After the death of their leader, Falcone and Salvator fled to Rome; and Falcone afterwards visited Paris, where he obtained the protection of Colbert, who procured him his pardon, and enabled him to return to Naples. Falcone painted the portrait of Masaniello. He died at Naples in 1665. There are a few prints by him, and some frescos; but he was chiefly distinguished as a battle painter. His fame was so great in this respect in his own country, that he was named the Oracle of battles—''Oracolo delle battaglie''. The Louvre possesses one of his battle-pieces. His works are distinguished for their vigour and colour, and are sometimes confounded with those of his great scholar, Salvator Rosa.—[[Author:Ralph Nicholson Wornum|R. N. W.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348G&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348H&quot; /&gt;FALCONE, {{sc|Benedetto di}}, a Jewish chronicler, was born at Benevento in the twelfth century. His writings are very graphic, although his latinity is very inferior even for the times in which he lived. The annals of Benevento from 1102 to 1140 which he wrote, have been published, together with those of three other chroniclers, under the title of &quot;Antiqui Chronologi quatuor;&quot; and Muratori included them in his Rerum Italicarum scriptores. His death has not been recorded.—[[Author:Augustus Cesar Marani|A. C. M.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348H&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348I&quot; /&gt;FALCONER, {{sc|Hugh}}, M.D., a distinguished naturalist. He was educated for the medical profession at the university of Edinburgh, where he took the degree of M.D. He went out as assistant-surgeon in the service of the East India Company, and whilst in India became distinguished for his researches in geology and botany. His geological researches were made in company with Sir Thomas Proby Cautley; and the papers containing the results of their discoveries have been written conjointly. These researches are principally confined to the discovery of an immense number of fossil remains in the Sivalik hills of the Sub-Himalayan mountains. Separate papers on the Sivatherium Hippopotamus, Camel Tiger, Anoplotherium, and Colossochelys (a gigantic tortoise) were published in the proceedings of the geological and other societies. A resumé of these researches, with much additional matter, was published in the Fauna Antiqua Sivalensis, or fossil zoology of the Sivalik hills. In 1845 Dr. Falconer was appointed superintendent of the East India Company's botanical gardens at Calcutta. In this position he remained for a few years, and then returned to England to cultivate the science of palæontology, which he much enriched by his contributions. He died January 31, 1865.—[[Author:Edwin Lankester|E. L.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348I&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348J&quot; /&gt;FALCONER, {{sc|Thomas}}, was born in 1736 at Chester, his father being recorder of the city. His passion for literary studies was the ruling principle of his life; and the protracted sickness under which he laboured, though it allowed him scarcely a moment's respite from pain, could not conquer his devotion to his favourite pursuits. Hour after hour was spent in reading, when it was only in a kneeling position that he obtained some mitigation of his bodily sufferings. He published, in 1786, &quot;Devotions for the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper,&quot; to which a practical digest of the book of Psalms was appended. The popularity of this work, and its extensive circulation, have caused it to be frequently reprinted. It was followed, at an interval of ten years, by &quot;Chronological Tables from the time of Solomon to that of Alexander.&quot; He wrote, also, an essay on &quot;Pliny's account of the temple of Diana at Ephesus,&quot; which was inserted in the ''Archæologia''. But the work on which he expended his greatest attention was an edition of Strabo. It was still unfinished at his death in 1796, but was published eleven years afterwards by his nephew.—[[Author:William Bruce|W. B.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348J&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348K&quot; /&gt;FALCONER, {{sc|William}}, a distinguished English physician. He was born in 1744, and was the son of William Falconer, recorder of Chester. He practised as a physician at Bath, and was well known throughout the world for his medical writings. One of his most celebrated works was entitled &quot;Remarks on the Influence of Climate, Situation, Nature of Country, Population, Food, &amp;c., on the disposition and temper, manners, laws and customs, government, and religion of mankind.&quot; This was published in 1782. In 1788 he obtained the Fothergillian medal of the Medical Society of London for his dissertation on the influence of the passions upon the disorders of the body. He also wrote a &quot;Practical Dissertation on the Medicinal Effects of the Bath Waters.&quot; He was remarkable for his sound judgment and clear and comprehensive views, and was held in high esteem, not only in the city in which he lived, but wherever his writings were known. He died in 1824.—His only son, the Rev. {{sc|Thomas Falconer}}, after having taken holy orders, took a medical degree in 1823, and practised medicine in Bath. He died in 1839.—The family reputation is sustained by his son, Dr. R. {{sc|Wilbraham Falconer}}, who is in practice as a physician at Bath, and well known for his intelligence and skill.—[[Author:Edwin Lankester|E. L.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348K&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348Zcontin&quot; /&gt;[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|FALCONER, {{sc|William}}]], a British poet, was born in the Netherbow, Edinburgh, in the year 1730. The lowliness and obscurity of his origin, and the occupation in which his life was spent, have conspired to render the memorials of him but scanty for the biographer. The son of a poor barber who had several other children to maintain, two of whom were deaf and dumb, William, left early an orphan, had little of regular education. He stated himself in after life, that his education had been confined merely to English reading, writing, and a little arithmetic. The neighbouring port of Leith was often visited by him, and chance, or necessity, or it may be a natural taste, directed him to a sea-life. There is no reason to suppose that he had any strong indisposition to seafaring, as has been alleged, except the lines&lt;section end=&quot;348Zcontin&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="10446" sha1="9ku3eg6n6s3fiqw5amsapnu3qqe3pp2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Klarm768&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{gap|6em}}FAL|322|FAL{{gap|6em}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;348Aa&quot; /&gt;addressed sonnets to her while in prison, and also a kind of lyric romance, in the form of an epistle.—[[Author:Frederic Meriton White|F. M. W.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348Aa&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348B&quot; /&gt;FALCK, {{sc|Anton Reinhard}}, Baron, a Dutch statesman, was born at Utrecht in 1776, and died in 1843. A short time after he had completed his education he was appointed secretary to the Spanish embassy. On his return home he found his country about to be handed over by Napoleon to one of his brothers. Falck was unwilling to be a party to the usurpation by rendering direct service to the new government, but accepted the post of secretary-general for Indian affairs; a rich sinecure that allowed him leisure to cultivate his favourite literary pursuits. After the departure of the French forces in 1813, Falck became secretary to the provisional government, and when the kingdom of the Low Countries was organized, he was appointed secretary of state. In 1818 the king combined in his person the ministry of the colonies, of public instruction, and of national industry. He applied himself to the promotion of education, but the increasing difficulties of his position forced him to resign He was ambassador to Brussels from 1840 till his death.—[[Author:Robert Martin|R. M., A.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348B&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348C&quot; /&gt;FALCK, {{sc|Jeremias}}, line-engraver, was born at Dantzig in 1629, and died in 1709. He learned engraving in Paris under Chaveau, and practised his art in Holland, and for a while in Denmark and Sweden. Some of his best historical plates were engraved for the cabinet of Reynst. Among them are &quot;St. John Preaching in the Wilderness,&quot; after A. Bloemart; &quot;Concert of Music,&quot; after Guercino; and &quot;The Cyclops,&quot; after Caravaggio. Some of his best portraits are those of Queen Christina of Sweden, Prince Charles Gustavus, the Prince Palatine, Count Oxenstierna, Tycho Brahe, and other northern notabilities, chiefly from the originals of D. Beck. A fuller list of his plates will be found in Nagler's Künstler Lexicon.—[[Author:James Thorne|J. T—e.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348C&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348D&quot; /&gt;FALCK, {{sc|Niels Nik}}., a Danish statsraad and lawyer, born 25th November, 1784, at Emmerlöv in the county of Tönder. He was tutor in the family of Count Moltke at Rütschau; after which he studied law, and in 1809 passed his juridical examination. He was appointed professor of Roman and German law in the new university of Christiana; but owing to the separation of Norway from Denmark in 1814, he never occupied the post, and was appointed instead ordinary professor of jurisprudence at Kiel. He took an active part in politics, especially in the Schleswig-Holstein question. He died 5th May, 1850. As a jurist he ranks high. His most important works are—&quot;Juristische Encyklopädie;&quot; and &quot;Hand-buchdes Schleswig-Holsteinischer Privatrechts,&quot; a clear statement of the rights both of Schleswig and Holstein, which he left incomplete.—[[Author:Mary Howitt|M. H.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348D&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348E&quot; /&gt;FALCKENSTEIN, J. H. See {{sc|Falkenstein}}.
&lt;section end=&quot;348E&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348F&quot; /&gt;FALCONBRIDGE, {{sc|Mary}}, Countess of, third daughter of Oliver Cromwell, from whom she inherited the energy of character which ennobled her personal attractions, was born in 1636. In 1657 she married Thomas, Viscount Falconbridge, who commanded a regiment under the Protector, and became one of the counsellors of his son Richard. When the power of the new protector waned before the discontent of the old Cromwellian officers, she retired with her husband to his estates in Cambridgeshire; where they were joined by her brother Henry, and became decided, though secret favourers of the Restoration. She died in 1712.—[[Author:William Bruce|W. B.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348F&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348G&quot; /&gt;FALCONE, {{sc|Angelo}}, a celebrated battle painter, was born at Naples in 1600, and became the pupil of Spagnoletto. He and his scholars, of whom Salvator Rosa was one, took part in Masaniello's insurrection against the Spaniards, and formed themselves into a company known as the ''compagnia della morte''. After the death of their leader, Falcone and Salvator fled to Rome; and Falcone afterwards visited Paris, where he obtained the protection of Colbert, who procured him his pardon, and enabled him to return to Naples. Falcone painted the portrait of Masaniello. He died at Naples in 1665. There are a few prints by him, and some frescos; but he was chiefly distinguished as a battle painter. His fame was so great in this respect in his own country, that he was named the Oracle of battles—''Oracolo delle battaglie''. The Louvre possesses one of his battle-pieces. His works are distinguished for their vigour and colour, and are sometimes confounded with those of his great scholar, Salvator Rosa.—[[Author:Ralph Nicholson Wornum|R. N. W.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348G&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348H&quot; /&gt;FALCONE, {{sc|Benedetto di}}, a Jewish chronicler, was born at Benevento in the twelfth century. His writings are very graphic, although his latinity is very inferior even for the times in which he lived. The annals of Benevento from 1102 to 1140 which he wrote, have been published, together with those of three other chroniclers, under the title of &quot;Antiqui Chronologi quatuor;&quot; and Muratori included them in his Rerum Italicarum scriptores. His death has not been recorded.—[[Author:Augustus Cesar Marani|A. C. M.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348H&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348I&quot; /&gt;[[Author:Hugh Falconer|FALCONER, {{sc|Hugh}}]], M.D., a distinguished naturalist. He was educated for the medical profession at the university of Edinburgh, where he took the degree of M.D. He went out as assistant-surgeon in the service of the East India Company, and whilst in India became distinguished for his researches in geology and botany. His geological researches were made in company with Sir Thomas Proby Cautley; and the papers containing the results of their discoveries have been written conjointly. These researches are principally confined to the discovery of an immense number of fossil remains in the Sivalik hills of the Sub-Himalayan mountains. Separate papers on the Sivatherium Hippopotamus, Camel Tiger, Anoplotherium, and Colossochelys (a gigantic tortoise) were published in the proceedings of the geological and other societies. A resumé of these researches, with much additional matter, was published in the Fauna Antiqua Sivalensis, or fossil zoology of the Sivalik hills. In 1845 Dr. Falconer was appointed superintendent of the East India Company's botanical gardens at Calcutta. In this position he remained for a few years, and then returned to England to cultivate the science of palæontology, which he much enriched by his contributions. He died January 31, 1865.—[[Author:Edwin Lankester|E. L.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348I&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348J&quot; /&gt;FALCONER, {{sc|Thomas}}, was born in 1736 at Chester, his father being recorder of the city. His passion for literary studies was the ruling principle of his life; and the protracted sickness under which he laboured, though it allowed him scarcely a moment's respite from pain, could not conquer his devotion to his favourite pursuits. Hour after hour was spent in reading, when it was only in a kneeling position that he obtained some mitigation of his bodily sufferings. He published, in 1786, &quot;Devotions for the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper,&quot; to which a practical digest of the book of Psalms was appended. The popularity of this work, and its extensive circulation, have caused it to be frequently reprinted. It was followed, at an interval of ten years, by &quot;Chronological Tables from the time of Solomon to that of Alexander.&quot; He wrote, also, an essay on &quot;Pliny's account of the temple of Diana at Ephesus,&quot; which was inserted in the ''Archæologia''. But the work on which he expended his greatest attention was an edition of Strabo. It was still unfinished at his death in 1796, but was published eleven years afterwards by his nephew.—[[Author:William Bruce|W. B.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348J&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348K&quot; /&gt;FALCONER, {{sc|William}}, a distinguished English physician. He was born in 1744, and was the son of William Falconer, recorder of Chester. He practised as a physician at Bath, and was well known throughout the world for his medical writings. One of his most celebrated works was entitled &quot;Remarks on the Influence of Climate, Situation, Nature of Country, Population, Food, &amp;c., on the disposition and temper, manners, laws and customs, government, and religion of mankind.&quot; This was published in 1782. In 1788 he obtained the Fothergillian medal of the Medical Society of London for his dissertation on the influence of the passions upon the disorders of the body. He also wrote a &quot;Practical Dissertation on the Medicinal Effects of the Bath Waters.&quot; He was remarkable for his sound judgment and clear and comprehensive views, and was held in high esteem, not only in the city in which he lived, but wherever his writings were known. He died in 1824.—His only son, the Rev. {{sc|Thomas Falconer}}, after having taken holy orders, took a medical degree in 1823, and practised medicine in Bath. He died in 1839.—The family reputation is sustained by his son, Dr. R. {{sc|Wilbraham Falconer}}, who is in practice as a physician at Bath, and well known for his intelligence and skill.—[[Author:Edwin Lankester|E. L.]]
&lt;section end=&quot;348K&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;348Zcontin&quot; /&gt;[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|FALCONER, {{sc|William}}]], a British poet, was born in the Netherbow, Edinburgh, in the year 1730. The lowliness and obscurity of his origin, and the occupation in which his life was spent, have conspired to render the memorials of him but scanty for the biographer. The son of a poor barber who had several other children to maintain, two of whom were deaf and dumb, William, left early an orphan, had little of regular education. He stated himself in after life, that his education had been confined merely to English reading, writing, and a little arithmetic. The neighbouring port of Leith was often visited by him, and chance, or necessity, or it may be a natural taste, directed him to a sea-life. There is no reason to suppose that he had any strong indisposition to seafaring, as has been alleged, except the lines&lt;section end=&quot;348Zcontin&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Author:Vishnampet R. Ramachandra Dikshitar</title>
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{{author
 | firstname    = Vishnampet R. Ramachandra
 | lastname     = Dikshitar
 | last_initial = Di
 | description  = Indian Indologist
}}

==Works==
* ''Studies In Tamil Literature And History'' (1936) {{ssl|Studies In Tamil Literature And History.djvu}}
* ''The Silappadikaram'' (1939) {{ssl|The Silappadikaram.djvu}}
* ''Origin and spread of the Tamils'' (1947) {{ssl|Origin and spread of the Tamils.djvu}}
* ''War in ancient India'' (1948) {{ssl|War in ancient India.djvu}}
* ''The Maurayan Polity'' {{ssl|The Maurayan Polity.djvu}}

{{PD/US|1953}}
{{PD-India}}
{{authority control}}
[[Category:Indian authors]]</text>
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      <text bytes="5107" sha1="96iptet8eer4ztmq7clcxbyoqu3zy3x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;HERRINOSHAW'S LIBRARY OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY.
Washington. Aiiiiigt&lt;m uml

n fly -third

Fulls Church electric rftilway. Uv huH berome well known as an eminent railway exis tlu- orij^aininiT and orgimizat ion «'XjHMt
inator of the Uine }&gt;&gt;'Bt«in ol Organi/4ition
duties,
he is
special
and whirh among other

democrat.

n-ivivtT of

tlif

;

now *'n^a;j:f*l in iiiHtalling on tlu- IlarriiUiin
lined, lie i« the author ot Lettern Fruui An
Old Railway Official to His Son.
Hiads, Warren Elmer, »'ntomoloj.,'i-*t iuithor. was born Svit. 20, 1H76, in Town- ii&lt;l.
Mass. In 1002-(I7 be was in rhar^T of tlx.

cotton Kolt wfcvil laboratory ill tlu' I iiit«'«l
StaitH boD-au of int&gt;i?nolo&lt;;y. Simt* 11M»7
has hi't-n &lt;&gt;ntonu&gt;logint to tht' Alabama
ex[HTiagrii'uiturat
ment atation at Au-

burn

iUi'l

:

pri't

t

--Ml

of ('ntonioio;;y in Ala-

bama

technic in*
&gt;titiiti.
Ilf jr. a fellow III the American
aHHiH'iation
for
the
advancfniciit of scicru-c. lU- i&lt;. tlif iiiitlmr of
several nioiio^raplis and bulletins upon the
Mexican ( iitton Holl Weevil; and other entf»ii)o|oi|i( a! subjects.
Hinebaugh, William Henry, lawyer, longressman. was born Dee. 10, 1867. in ( al'
houn county, Mich, lie has served two
terms a» judfjc of Ibc county court »»f LaSalle county. In liU'i-l.'i lie was a member
of the sixty-third congress.
Biaet, Kidiard, conin^essman. was bom in
EdgeconiW county. N.C In 1K2.'&gt; 27
was
a representative from North Carolina to the
nineteenth congress. He died in November,
185!, in Ralcifih, N.C.
Idly
I

Hinm, Thomas
ist,

was bom

Ky. He was

H., lawyer, legi»&gt;lator, jurOct. 9, 1838, in Butler county.
a noted attorney of Frankfort.

Ky.

Ue

of the
|i&lt;;il&gt;i

was judge
court of ap-

iif

Kentucky;

and

in l88o waft chief
justice
of the
su*
prenie court &lt;'f l' ii
tucky.
li e
In iHtll

was a member

of the

copxf itnf iotial
c o nvent ion for Franklin

county:

and

filled

various

other
positions of
truMt
ami
honor. He died Jan
lH!t7. in Kr:.nkfort. Ky.
Hines, William H., lawyer, ntate senator,
congressman, was t)ora March 15. 18*&gt;H. in
lb was a member of the
Brooklyn. N.^

2:{.

how^

of reprr-entativei of Penn-*vlvania
in 1879-80 and 1^83-84. Ife was elected to
the state senate of Pennsylvania in IHHK
for a term of four years; and in 189.3-9.'&gt;

and 1897*90 be was a representative to the

Hlnftt,

and

flftj-flfth

FnAeriek

167

eongrossee as a

WOUam,

clenr3rman, col*

).rr-ii|enf. w;i^ l)Oi ti No
2. lHt)6, in
England. In lbS&gt;2 he graduated from the
McC'ormick theological seminary of Oiieago,
III.
In 1895 HKM1 he was pa-for of the first
preabyterian church of Ottumwa, Iowa; in
lOlN) to 1004 was president of Parsons colle^'e ;it Fairfield. Iowa; and since 1904 has
bet
|tii— iiicnt of Centra! university of Kentucky and of Centre c«dlegc of Danville. Ky.
Hinkel, Charles John, educator, author,
wa- born in 1H17 in Knpland. He was proff&gt;sor of &lt;ireek and latin at Vassar college
in l&lt;sii'J-!»«l. Ho was the author of a numHe died in
ber of &lt;;erm«n translations.
IH1»4 in l'oii^,'lik. e|)sie, N.Y.
stockraiser,
banker, legF.,
Hinkle, James
ialator, was horn in 1H64 in Missouri. He
leceivcil a tlmi &lt;,ii:.'li educati«m: and j»raduated from the »tatc university of Missouri.
He is now a successful stockralser and
liank. r .»f IJo-w. 11. N.M.; and i»rominentIy
identitied with the bu^iuetis and public affairs of bis community. For four years be
li

;.'.'

.

ii

was

representative

a

legislature;

and

f«ir

in

berft

I

!n&lt; )i)1i&lt;'r

New Mexico

the

two years was

ber of the state senate.

Since

liNN)

a

memhe ha8

of the territorial lioaul of

and is n«»w mayor of his city.
Hinkle, Thornton Mills, lawyer, college
president, was born Aug. 17. 1840, in Cincinati. Ohio. He was president of the Cinassociation; president of the
cinati I'
Cincinati literary club; and president of
the Pulte medical college of Cincinnati,
Ohio.
Hinkley, £dward Otis, lawyer, author,
was born Jan. 0, 1824, in Baltimore, Md.
e«jua ii/at ion

;

l

He was xcn-tary of the American bar

as-

sociation from its foundation in 1878 until
1803. He was the avtlMNr of Att««iiments$

and Testamentary Law.
18f&gt;6,

in

He

died Julj 13,

Baltimore, Md.

Rinkley, Holmes, manufacturer, Inventor,
was born June 24. 1793. in Hallowell, Maine,
lie built the third stationary engine that
was produced in Massaebnsetts: and in
1840 bcj:^an fn lon-f ru-f loioinot ves on a
new and ingenious plan, that soon made
his name favorably known. He died Feb.
7. isnn. in Beaton. ^fa.«».
i

Hinkley, John, soldier, lawyer, was born
I. 1864, in Baltimore, Md. Tn 1884
he graduated with the iKtrree of A. P. from
Johns Hopkins university; and in 188G
gradusted with the degree of LL.B. from
the nni&lt;i-ity of Maryland. He hn'; attained SUCCCS8 in the practice of law in Baltimore. Md.: and since 1803 has been secreTn
tary of the American bar a.a«&lt;opiation.
ISDS he was cnpfnln in the fifth Maryland
repiment of the T'nited States volunteer
infantry in the Spanisli -American war: and
aince 190.*} he haf* been major in the fifth
regiment Maryland national guard.

March&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Herringshaw's National Library of American Biography - volume 3.pdf/185</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2984211</id>
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        <id>1511</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa  →  Iowa</comment>
      <origin>15133235</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4992" sha1="l1hb47drw6d345v8nd2xo8prpswvs49" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|168|HERRINGSHAW'S LIBRARY OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Hinks, Edward Ward, Hollier, was born
in Maine. In 1861 he was second lieutenant in the second regiment Massachusetts
cavalry; in 1862 he was brevetted brigadier.
general of volunteers. He died Feb. 4, 1894.

Hinkson, Addison Cyrus, educator, jurist,
was born Dec. 19, 1837, in Patosi, Mo. He
has been superintendent of common schools:
and judge of the supreme court of Summit
county, Mo.

Hinman, Benjamin, soldier, state legislator, was born in 1720 in Woodbury, Conn.
He was commissioned captain of the fourth
continental regiment in 1775. He represented Woodbury, Conn., in the legislature
during twenty sessions; and after the incorporation of Southbury was its delegate
for eight sessions. He died March 22, 1810,
in Southbury, Mass.

Hinman, Clark Titus, educator. college
president. was born Aug. 3, 1817, in Kortwright, N.Y. Ile was principal of Albion
Wesleyan seminary in 1848-53: and founder and first president of the Northwestern
university at Evanston, Ill. He died Oct.
21. 1854, in Tray, N.Y.

Hinman, Edgar H., lawyer, jurist. He has
attained success as one of the foremost
lawyers of Ohio at Elyria. He has filled
several important offices; and is now probate judge.

Hinman, Elisba, naval officer, was born
March D. 174. in Stonington, Conn. Іn
1778 he commanded the sloop PrOvidence.
which was captured, and Hinman taken to
England and imprisoned. He escape to
France, returned to America, and was honorably acquitted for the loss of his ship.
In 1798-1802 he was engaged in the revenue service. He died Aug. 29. 1807. in
Stonington, Conn.

Hinman, George Wheeler, journalist, lecturer. was born Nov. 19, 1863, in Mt. Morris. N.Y. He is a lecturer on foreign history and diplomacy. In 1888-97 he was on
the editorial staff of the New York Sun;
and since 1897 has been editor-in-chief of
the Chicago Inter-Ocean.

Hinman, Ida, litterateur. author, was born.
in Keokuk, Town. She is the author of
The Washington Sketch Rusk.

Hinman, Joel, lawyer, jurist, author, was
born in 1862 in Southbury, Conn. In 1851-61 he was an associate justice of the supreme court of Connecticut, becoming chief
justice in 18. His judicial opinions extend through twenty volumes of Connecticut reports. He died Feb. 21, 1870, in Cheshire. Conn.

Hinman, Royal Ralph, lawyar, antiquarian, author, was born June 5, 1785, in
Sonthbury. Chun, He was a lawyer and
autiquarian of New Hampshire, and subsequently of New York City. He was the author of Historical Recollections of Connecticut in the American Revolution; and
Catalogue of the First Puritan Settlers of
Connecticut. He died Oct. 15, 1868, in New
York City.

Hinman, Russell, civil engineer, author,
was born Jan. 23, 1853, in Cincinnati, Ohio.
He has charge of the editorial office of the
American book company of New York City.
Hi is the author of Eclectic Elementary
Geography Eclectic Complete Geography:
and Eclectic Physical Geography.

Hinrichs, Carl Gustav, chemist, author.
was born Feb. 14, 1878, in Iowa City, Iowa.
He originated the centrifugal analysis of
powders. He is the author of Micro-Chemical Analysis.

Hinrichs, Frederick W, lawyer, lecturer,
statesman, was born Sept. 12, 1851, in
Brooklyn, NY. Siner 1878 he has been
in the general practice of law in New York
City. He has been abroad six times for
education and recreation; and has lectured
on political economy and literary subjects.
In 1902-03 he was president of the department of law in the Brooklyn institute:
and for two terms was president of the
national civic club of Brooklyn, N.Y. In
1896 he was a candidate for lieutenant-governor of New York; in 1897 was a candidate for president of Brooklyn borough;
and in 1898 was candidate for attorney-
general of New York.

Hinrichs, Gustavus Detlef, chemist, author, was born Dec. 2, 1838, in Germany.
For twenty-five years he was professor of
physical science in the state university of
Iowa; and since 1880 has been professor of
chemistry at the College of pharmacy at
St. Louis, Mo. He is the author of Introduction to General Chemistry; Elements of
Physics: Elements of Atom Mechanics;
Principles of Pure Crystallography: Principles of Physical Sciences; and First Course
in Qualitative Analysis.

Hinrichsen, William H., journalist, congressman, author, was born May 27, 1850,
in Franklin, Ill. He was justice of the peace
{{FIS|float=left|file=missing}}
in 1871-74; served
three terms as deputy sheriff of his
county: and was
elected sheriff in 1880.
He was elected clerk
of the house of representatives of Illinois in 1891; and was
elected secretary of
state in 1892. He has
served as a member
of the democratic
state committee since
1888, and was chairman in 1895. In 1897-99 he was a representative from Illinois to
the fifty-fifth congress as a democrat. He
is the author of The Australian Ballot; and
other works.

Hinsdale, Burke Aaron, educator, college president, author, was born March 31, 1837, in Wadsworth. Ohio. He was president of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      </contributor>
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tj

LIHKAKY OF AMt^KlCAN BIOQKAPHV.

Connecticut to tli'
twenty -third con|j;re88 to till a vacancy, lie
died in Littletown, Conn.
Jackson, Edmund, hank* ). Ilniincicr, wa8
born May 3, 1853, in lieniitiulaer, 24. Y. Ue
has been president of the first national bank
rt'prt'Hcntiitivc

of

What

fruiii

Clu'cr,

ami mayor

Iowa;

nt

city. Ue was a Hcbool direvtur lor luauy
yeara; secretary-treasurer of the Aaaoelated

He is now sutratprnitif's nf Atiiprira.
preme secretary ol the mystic workers of
the worl&lt;l; president of the at«t«ociated fraternities of America; a memlier of the statc
board of rijuali/atiuii

Illinois.

ul

w i^
tJdslien, Pa.
In
1900 be was ()p]ithalmolu;:i^t to the Arapalioe county hospital of Denver, Col. He irt
the author of Eaaentiala of Diseases of the

Edward, surgeon, author,

jAClcson,

bom March

30.

1S.&quot;»(1,

in

Eye; and Manual of Diseases of the Eye.
Jackson, Edward B., physician, congress-

man, was born iu Harrison county, Va. Ue
practiced medicine in CUirlcflburg, Va. In
isi!i 2ri lie was a repre-fiilal i r from Virginia to the sixteenth and tteveiiteeatb con-

He

gresses.

died Sept. 8, 1820, in Chirks*

burg. Va.

Jackson, Edward Payson, educator, auwas born March 15, 1840, in Turkey.
He was an (-(hxator of Boston; and master
in the latin •mIiooI. He wa» the author of
Matheinatic Ceo^rraphv; also A Demigod, a
thor,

Tiovi

riie

l;

iiuiUlin;;.

Kartii

He

in

died

SpiM-e;

ii

I'.Ml.'i

and Character
in

I

)or&lt;-liester,

Mass.
Jackson, Elibu Emory, menhant, legislator, governor, was born Nov. 3, 1837, in
Wicomiio county, Md. In lH.'&gt;!(-&lt;)3 lie conducted a country store at Delmar, Md., and
in 1863 became cngagi&gt;d in the lumber business, resiiliny at Salishiiry. Md. He opened
branchen of hia lumber business at Baltimore and at Washington. D.C. In 1882-83

treatises

on

I.afin

Syntax; and Horatian

.Metre. He died April 4, 1901, in Overbroc^,
Pa.
Jackson, Frank Dar, insurance president,
governor, was born Jan. 26, 18o4, iu Arcade,
N.Y. He was educated at the Iowa state
agricultural collef^e and in 1S74 ^'raduated
from the law department of the Iowa state
university. In 1882-84 he was secretary of
tile Iiiwa -tatr ^.-nafe; anri was secretary
of the stale ol lovwi for three terms. In
1804-00 he was governor of Iowa. He la
now president of a life insuraBoe company
at l)es Moines, Iowa.
Jackson, Frank Watterson, educator, was
horn .June 6, 1874, in Ohio Pyle, Pa. Ue
grailuated from the Mount Pleasant institute of Pennsylvania, and received the
tliree-lnindrid dollar cash prize for the
best preparation for college. He then attended |tn&lt; kn&lt; l! university and the university of Chicago. He fills the chair of Greek
in the Mount Pleasant institute; and contributes extensively to Current literature.

Jaektoa* Gahrielle Emilie, litterateur, auwas born (Vt. 13. IHtil, in New York
SIff is the author of Denise and Ned
Jackson, George, congressman, was born

thor,
City.

in Virginia.
In 1705-07 and 1700-1803 he
ua-^ a repi oetitative from 'irginia to the

fourth, sixth and seventh congresses as a
democrat.
Jackson, George A., mine: .li-&lt; nvi n r. Tn
18.'»S he start&lt;M| uu a prospecting expedition
that resulted in the discovery of gold in

Clear Creek. Colo. In 19W a monument was
erected to his nu'uiury in Idaho Springs,

CoL
Jackson,

George

Anson,

was born

brarian, author,

r1er&lt;,'yTnan,

.March

17,

li-

1846,

North Adams, Mass. He was a congregational clergyman of .Swampacott, Mass.;
and in 1807 became librarian of General
in

• ua- a
itK iiilx
of the Maryland state
legislature; and in 1884-88 wus a member
of the state senate. In 1888-02 be was governor »jf Maryland: and in 1S0.&quot;» was again
elected to the state senate.
He died Dec.
27, 1007, in Salisbury, Md.

thetdo^rjcal library of Uoston, Mass. He is
the author of The .Son of a Prophet, an
historical novel; Apostolic Fathers; Fiathers
of the Seeond Century; Post-Nieene Greek

Jackson, Emily, was horn in Tennessee,
.She prcHided in the white house during the
administration of President Jackson, who

CiIri^tlan

i

!

ulwnys sjMtke of lier as
dit d in December. 183H.

my
in

Ti

ilan&lt;rhter.

iuu

She

ssi-e.

Fathers; and Post-Niceue Latin Fathers,
four worka which form a series of early
literature [irimers.

Jackson, George Henry, surgeon, diplomat, was horn on Feb. 28, 1863, in Natick,
.Mass. He was educated at ('(dgafe imiversity; and lias received the degretn of S.T.B.,
..M. and M.D. He has been surgeon to
tile Ihliiium gov«'rnment in
nitfr,, frw
state; .merican consul at Cognac; and has

Jackson, Francis, reformer, author, was
Isjrn .March 7, 178S). in Newton. Mass.
He
was a prominent reformer: was presiilent
of the Anti-fSlaverv swietv in lU)ston, Mass.
He is the auttior of a History of Newton,
Mass. He died Nov. 14. 1861, in Boston,

various other positions of trust and
honor. Simv 1807 he has been in the Cnited
States consular service; and is now consul

Mas-

at

Jackson, Francis Aristide, educator, auMarch 28, 1830, in North-

thor, wss born
innln r!a 11(1, Pa.

In H.'&gt;'i was appointe&lt;l asprofessor of the Greek and latin
language; and continued to teach in that

sistant

fapacity until isn4. Ho later wa'^ ajipninted professor in latin languages and literature.

He was

the author of a number of

(

lilleil

I. a

Ivoilii-llr.

l-'iaiii&lt;'.

Jackson, George Thomas, physician, auwas born Dec. 10. 18.'i2. in New York
City, lie i&gt; a noted dermatologist of New
York City. He is the author of Diseases
of the Hair and Scalp: Baldness; and Handtlior.

In M.k

•'
&lt;

-

nf

till'

Skin.

Jackson, George Washington,
neer, builder,

was bom July

civil engi21, 1861, in&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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LllMtAUY

N.Y. For four veiirH he wax city attorney
of Milwaukee. Wis.; was «iefeale«l on the
•leniocratic ticket for governor of Wisconsin in 187J': and received the denjocratic
vote

the le&gt;;islature

in

f&lt;»r

Mates

I'liiteil

s4'nator in ISSl.
He wa-* I nited Stales
district judj^e of the eastern di-&gt;trirt of Wis(onsin in ISSSII.i: and in lH!i:t l!HI2 he was

judjje of the I iiited States j-ircuit court
lor the seventh circuit of Wisconsin.
Jenkins, John, pioneer, was l&gt;orn Feb. 15,
1728, in Fast (Jreenwich.
He was an ori^iinil (iroprietor of the Susquehaniui company.
He was a teacher, surveyor and
iMUiveyaneer. justie«' of the peace, and president of the first county court at Wyoiniriff
in 1777.
Hi* died in NovemlM-r, 1784.
in
IN-nuoylvania.
Jenkins, John, soldier, state le}»islator,

was horn Nov.
Conn.

in New l/mdon.
Wyoming with his

17.&quot;)].

27,

moveil

lie

to

father in 17&lt;5JI: and hecame an active participant in the rennaniite war and tiie revolution, in which he was a lieutenant.
He
was suhsei|Ucnt ly elected major and colonel
of militia. sherilT and rnendM-r of assenddy.
He died March 1!». 1827. in Wy(»minp. I'a.
Jenkins, John James, soldier. lawyer, jur-

congressman, was

ist,

Ixirn Auj;. 2n. 18-i:{,
In 18.»2 he settled in Harahoo.

in England.

Wyoming
he

;

common

schi&gt;ols.

He served in the civil
war in the sixth rejjiment Wisc&lt;»nsin infantry.
He was a
member of the state

f
of

and he attended

Wis.
the

assenddy from Chippewa county: and he
was county judge of

OP'

AMKRK'AN BIOQRAPHY.
&quot;

was liiirn dan. 211. l/'J'.l, in i(arre, .Mass.
For six years he was district attorney of
Hneida ii'tunty. N.Y. In 184.')-40 and 18.')|he was a representative to the twentyninth, thirl ietli and thirty-second congresses.
He died IK'c. 24. 18.15». in Martinsburg. N.Y.
Jenkins, William M., lawyer, governor,
.'t.i

was burn

.XjhiI

Has a

mayor

and Calhoun:
New York: History
Tolk

War with Creat IlritSilas Wright.
He died
Weedsporl. N.Y.
Jenkins, Lemuel, congressman, was born
HIiMiminglon. ..Y.
in
In 182:1-25 he was
representative from New York to the
a
eijihteentli eongre-s.
He died in N'ew York.
denkins, Micah, soldier, was born in 1836
in ri-'disto

Life of

18.-.2.

in

Island, .S.C.

the

nel of

fifth

elected

jour-

Cenerals nf the Last

ain; and
Sept. 20.

He was

elected ctdo-

South Carolina

reginu'iit

Whatcom,
consoli-

dation of Sehome and
Whafc&lt;im
he
was

He was the author

Political
History of
of the Mexican War;

of

ami after the

Jenkins, John Stilwell, lawyer, journalist, author, was Immu I'di. l.'i. ISIS, in .M

of riie Heroines of History; Lives of the
IJovi-rnors of New York: i.ives of .laeks&lt;m.

.Mliain-e, Ohio.

the Pioneer oi Kansas;
in 1882 he was city
editor of the Seattle
Chronicle, and in 188:j
established the Whatcom Reveille. In 1887
1888
and
he
was

to

lawviT and

in

I

Cnite«l .states attorney for the territory
President tJrant. In 18!»,&quot;»-

i'any, N'.Y.
He was a
nalist of Wei'd^jiort. N'.Y.

is.'ili.

;

that county.
In 187i(
lie
w a s appointed

by

2.&quot;&gt;.

In 187.'t-77 he attended the Mount I'nion
college at .Mliance. nhio.
In l87ii-78 he
taught sehiMd in Stark county. Ohio; and in
1880 move&lt;l to Shelliy county, Iowa.
In
ISH.i he was ailniilted in the praetii'e of
law: and in 18S4 moved to Ivansas.
In
1888 he was a delegate to the republican
was appointed
milional cnnM-nt ion
and
special allntling agent by President Harrison. He allotted the Silelz Indians in Hregon and he Pawnees in Oklahoma. In 189:i
be iii&lt;»id to okhihoma; and in 18!I7 lOOl
was si-crelary of Oklahoma territory.
In
l!Mi| n:; he was governor of Oklahoma.
Jenkins, Will D., journalist, secietary of
stale, was l.orti Ajiril 21. 18.»2. in Pekin,
111.
During 1872-82 he edited and published

representative from Wisthe fifty fourth, fifty-fifth, fiftysixth, fifty seventh, fifty eiglitli. lifty ninth
and sixtieth congresses as a republican. He
dicil .Fune II. liMl. in Chippewa Falls. Wis.
r.toi»

consin

il9

the opening of the civil war; and was pro
moted to In igadier general.
He nn&gt;t his
death, from his nwn men, by mistake, .May
•i.
I8ii4. in Wilderness,  a.
Jenkins, Robert, congressman, was born
in Penn&gt;ylvania.
In I8ii7-ll he was a representative to the tenth and elevenin eonj»i,-.&gt;es.
He dit&gt;il in Pennsylvania.
Jenkins, Thornton Alexander, naval oflicer. was iMirii Dir.
Orange
11. 1811,
in.
county, a.
He entere/l the navy in 1828;
was a eo.nuKMliire in ISiSiS; and rear atlmiral
in 1870; and retired alNiut ISSO.
He diisl
.
«. !». |S!»:;. in Washington, D.C.
jK.'nkins, Timothy, lawyer, eongrcssnum,
at

Cliampion, a
He has fiileil

mayor

of

New

Whalcom. Since 1802
he has conducted The
populist paper of Whatcom.

numerous oflices of public
trust; and in 1807 1901 was secretary of
stale of Washington. He dieil in 1007.
Jenks, Almet Francis, lawyer, jurist, was
.May 21, 1 S.I.J, in Hrooklyn. N. Y.
In
he was corporation counsel of Brooklyn. N'.Y.: nml in I89I O.'i was judge-advoale general of N&gt;w York.
In 1898 he became associate jusiice of the supreme court
of New tirk for the second district for
term expiring in 1012.
Jenks, Edward Augustus, journalist, auiK.rn
1

ssii-O.'J

I

thor, poet,

was

l)orn Oct. 30,

1830, in

New-

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    <title>Page:Herringshaw's National Library of American Biography - volume 3.pdf/585</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>2984601</id>
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      <text bytes="5229" sha1="6ppqnhe056xpa76ej672of6tf3hpkvf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|570|HERRINGSHAWS LIBRARY OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;1842 46 and 1863-64 he was a member of
the Ohio state senate. He was commission-
ed major general of the Ohio state militia.
II died in Ohio.

Loughborough, James Moote, soldier, law-
yer, legislator, was born Nov, 1833, in
Shelbyville, Ky. He served throughout thre
rivil war as a colonel on the staff of the
confolerate General Sterling Price. He was
member in 1874-75 of the Arkansas leg.
islature. He died July 31, 1876, in Little
Rock, Ark.

Loughborough, Mrs. Mary Webster, au-
ther, was born Aug. 27, 1836, in New York
City. She was the author of My Cave Life
in Vicksburg, an arcount of life in Virks-
org during the siege: and For Better, for
Worse, and Other Stories, She died Ang.
27, 1887, in Little Rock, Ark.

Loughead, Mrs. Flora Haines, jour-
nalist, author, was born July 12. 1855, in
Milwaukee, Wis, She is a writer on the
San Francisco Chronicle, She is the mu
thor of The Libraries of California; The
Man Who Was (inilty, a novel; Quick Cook-
ing: The Abandoned Claim, novel; A
Handbook of Natural Science; The Man
From Nowhere: The Crown of Thoma;
Santo's Brother: Bud ditor of Hebrew
Folk-lore Tales,

Loughlin, James Francis, clergyman, edn-
cater, beturer, author, was born May 8,
1851. in Auburn, NY. le graduated from
the high school of Toledo, Ohio, in 1867; be
subsequently attended the Propaganda,
Rome, Italy, and was ordainest in 1897.
Since 1892 he has been professor and clien-
Bor in the Theological seminary, Over-
brank, Pa. He is the ditor of the Ameri-
en Catholic Quarterly Review; and the
author of a book of Sermons atud Lee-
tures.

Loughlin, John, clergyman, bishop, was
horn in 1816 in rehand. In 1811-44 he was
assistant priest in St. Patrick's cathedral
of New York City; and on the formation
of the diverse of Brooklyn he was conses
crated its first bishop. De died Dee. 29,
18, in Brooklyn.

Loughridge, William, lawyer, jurist, state
senator, congressman, was born July 13,
1827, in Youngstown, Ohio. I was a mem
ber of the Iowa state senate in 1856-68;
and in 1861-66 was judge of the sixth judi-
rial district of town. In 1867-71 and 1873-
73 he was a representative from Iowa to
The fortieth and forty-third congresses as a
republican. He died Sept. 26, Isso, in Read-
ing. Pa.

Lounsberry, Alice, botanist, author, was
horn in New York City. She is the author
of A tinide to the Wild Flowers: A Guide
to the Trees; and Southern Trees, Flowers
and Shrubs,

Lounsbury, William, lawyer, congress
mas, was born Dec. 25, 1831, in Stone Ridge.
3.Y. He was a number of the New York
state assembly in 1868; and was mayor of
Kingston in 1878. In 1879-81 he was a
representative from New York to the forty-
sixth congress as a democrat.

Lounsbury, George Edward, state sena-
tor. governor, was born May 7, 1838, in
Poandridge, Conn. When an infant he was
removed to Ridgefield, Conn, In 1833 he
graduated from Yale university; and in
graduated from the Berkeley divinity
school, In 1894-08 he was a member of
the Connecticut state senate; and in 1899-
1903 he was governor of the state of Connecticut. He died Aug. 10, 1904, in Farmington, Conn.

Lounsbury, Phineas Chapman, soldier.
financier legislator, governor, was born
Jan. 10, 1841, in Ridgefield, Conn. He en
Loved the seventeenth regiment Connecticut
volunteers as a private, but was compelled
to retire by serious illness, le engaged in
financial business in New York; and was
for years president of the Merchants' ex-
change national bank of New York City.
For several terms he was a member and
speaker in the Connecticut state legisla.
ture. In 1887-88 he was governor of the
state of Covcxticut.

Lounsbury, Thomas Raynesford, soldier,
educator, anther, was born Jan. 1, 1838, in
Ovid, N. He was commissioned first lieu
tenant me dred and twenty-sixth regi-
ment New York volunteers; and served
throughout the civil war. He has been a
professor of English at the Sheffield scien-
tific school of Vale university since 1871.
He is the author of History of the English
Language: Life of James Fenimore Cooper;
and Studies in Chaucer.

Louthan, Mrs. Hattie Horner, author,
poet, was born F. 5, 1865, in Quincy, Ill.
She is the author of Not At Home;
Thoughts Adrift; Poems; and This Was
Man.

Lounsbury, T. S., governor. In 1887-89
he was the thirty-first governor of Connecticut.

Louttit, George William, lawyer, author,
was born June 30, 1868, in Dayton, Ohio.
Since 1890 he has practiced law in Fort
Wayne, Ind. In 1890-1901 he was a rep-
resentative in the Indiana state legislature;
and in 1901 was elected judge of the mu
nicipal court of Fort Wayne, Ind. He is
the author of The Gentleman from Jay:
and A Prince of the Church.

Lourtit, J. A., congressman He was a
resident of Stockton. Cal. In 1885-87 he
was a representative from California to
the forty-ninth congress as a republican.

Love, Alfred Henry, mereliant, philanthropist, was born Sept. 7. 1830. in Philadelphia, P. Since 1853 he has been a woolen
commission merchant of Philadelphia, Pa.
Since 1886 he has been editor of the Voice
of Peace; and for thirty-right years has
been president of the Universal peace
union.

Love, George Maltby, soldier, was horn
Jan, 1, 1831, in Buffalo, NY. In 1861 he&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="5500" sha1="6az0986f57hfoo4q39j36153efvgfhp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;IIERHINUSilAW'S L.1URAKY

574

founders of the Society of
Anion;.'

his

work.s

art*

Aiiierii-aii artists.

Niiit-

ol

tlu-

First

Alhani; ( ailing
Honu- tlu&quot; t'ow«; Skipper Irrson; Arcades;
and Tellin&quot;,' the Ik-es. Ho has iUustrated
two vohinies of K«'al's ponns. the Lamia
and (Xles and Souni t-; mul has done some
good work in stained glutts and house decKniiiirc:

I'ortrait

nt

.Mllr.

OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY.
second artillery.
In 11K»4 lie attained the
rank of bri^adier-^^eneral
and reaides in
the City of Mexico, Mexico.
Love, aement Belton, educator, physician, author, was born April 30, 1840, in
Salem. S^L During the civil war he was a
memb«'r of the twenty-eighth regiment
:

Pennsylvania

Stat^

United

volunteers.

oration.

Hincc 1887 he has been a practicing phy-

hiwycr. autlior,
was Iwrn April U, 1844, in Brooklyn, N.Y.
He i« a notrd lawyer of New York City;
and prc^iilt'tif of the Satiinhiy an«l Sunday aMHuciatiun ul hrouklyit, N.Y. lie is
the author of The Balance of the Geneva
;itiil
Viiiioiis (ithir Monojjraphs.
A«.u'l
Lowber, James William, ethuator. eUrgy-

sician of Philadelphia.

Low, William Gilman,

man, lecturer,
Cliaplin, Ky.

m

was born Aup.

He

IH47.
tlu- nniv.-rsity
liKlianapoiis, frum

atten.h-l
ol

which institution he
reeeived the de^rrecft
of A.M., A.M.. S..I)..
LL.Ii.;

hitt.l)..

I'.S.

D.; F.U.t!.8. and F.R.
A.S.;
then attended
Syra&lt;'U?«-

the

niiivcr-

graduating from
the elasaical course
with the degre«' of
Ph.D.
many
For
years he was the edsity,

itor of The A]»ostolic
Church of Louisville, Ky.
He hua been
president of the Columbia Christian college;
chaiicellur ol A&lt;M T;iri university for live
years; ami ih-an ot l&gt;il)ie lectureship anne.v
to tile university of 'J'exas; lias lilletl pastorates in Scranton. Pa.; LoiiisviUe and Padueah, Ky.; lM»rt Wortii, (iaivestun
and

Austin, Texas, in which hitter city he is
pastor of t.'entrul cliriHtian church. He
is the author of Culture; Stru^';^'1eH and Triumphs of the Truth: The liihU* Jluctrines
of the Future; and other works.
Lowden, Frank Orten, educator, lawyer,

now

Itmii

riiiijrri'.ssMian.

.Imii.

Jtl,

ISlil.

in

Sunrise City, Mina. In 1SH3 he graduated
from the Iowa state university; and in
1SS7 ^xraduated from tiie Chicago union college of law.
In 18!&gt;8 lie vn» president of
the law club of Chicago. HI. In 1808 he

was lieuf eiiant ('ohjiiel in the
ment Illinois mtlioiial ;4uard.
lie
was a representative from

(list

in

re;;i-

l!t07-ll

to
the sixtieth and sixty lust eotijii es&gt;ic&gt;i.
Lowdermilk, William Harrison, journali&gt;.|, soldier, was horn Jan. 7, 1S.&quot;J!&gt;, in Cumherhiiitl. .Md.
During the eivil war he entered the union army as a major; rose to
the rank &gt;&lt;t
&lt;iiMMii&gt;^sary-^&lt;'neral.
He died
Dec. 2U, IH'M, in Washington, D.C.
Lowdor, Richard, soldier, was born Oct.
IS:!-2,
•20,
in New York City.
In Is.&quot;.!&quot;, he
graduated from the United IStates military
academy: and was a captain in 1H6I. In
ISCi.&quot;)
he W.I- hrevetted eoioiul for gallant
and meritorious services during the civil
war.
In 1802 he became colonel of the
&lt;

Illinois

and since I88.1
has been professor of materia mudica at
I'a.:

the Philadelphia college of pharmai«r. Be
is (he author of Syllabua of Botanieal Natural Orders.

Lowe, David Pearly, lawyer, juriat, conwas born Au{^. 22. 1823, in
Oneida county, N.Y.
He was a member
of the Kansas .state senate in 1863-64; and
judjuje of the sixth judicial court of Kansas in 18ti7-7L
In 1871-7&lt;&gt; he was a repres&lt;iitative from Kansas to the forty-second and forty-third eongresses as a repubyies-maii.

lican.

He was

chief justice of

Ctah

terri-

He died in Foit Scott, Iowa.
Lowe, Enoch L., governor, was born in
Maryland. In l8.'&gt;l-54 he was the twentysixth •.'overnor of Alarvland. He died Aug.

tory.

181)2, in New York City.
Lowe, John, naval oflRcer, was

23.
II.

civil

ls:{8.

Liver|)&lt;nd,

in

war he served

lirst

second Ohio regiment;
at the first

huttle of

bom Dec.
England.
In the
as a private in the
and was wounded
I5un.
He va-

I5iiII

pointed to tlu- navy; served also througli
the Corean and the iSpanish wars: and In
the (Jreely relief expeilition.
He was the
first
naval otiieer of any nationality to

have service in a submarine torpedo boat.
In inoo he was retired aa rear admiral of
the I'nited States navy.
Lowe, John Williamson, soldier, was horn
Nov. !). 1809. in New Jirunswick, SJ. He
was a captain in the second Ohio volunteers
during the Mexican war; and in the hej,'iiining of the
ivil war joined the national
army as aptain of the first company that
was raised in llreene «'omity. He died Sept.
10, 1801, in Nicholas county, Va.
Lowe, Joseph G., lawyer, statesman, was
born Dec. .'{1. 1S4»;. in' Hush county. In&lt;l.
He is an eminent attorney of Washington,
Kan.; and has served as a member of tla*
lower house of the Kansas legislature. In
1895 lie was appointed state railroad commissioner of Kansas.
Low^ Mrs. Martha Ann, author, pwi.
was born Nov. 21. 1829, in Keene, N.H.
She was a poid of Somerville, Mass.; whose
husband, Charles Lowe, was a I'nitariati
clergyman of eminence. She was the author of The Olive and the Pine, a lumk ff
verse; Love in Spain; and Other Poems;
The Story of Chief .Toseph, a poem; Bessie
iiiiv: and Life of Charles lyowe.
She disl
in 1902 in Somerville, Mass.
Lowe, Ralph P., lawyer, jurist, govern*,^
was horn in ISO.*) in Mtintgomery count
Oiiiu.
In
1849 he removed to
Keoku
Iowa; and in 1853 was elected judge of tl
&lt;

&lt;

•

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      <text bytes="8365" sha1="mnrzuqgshdzxjhbdm2pxs8wmq01ekl4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{larger|4}}|{{larger|FAL—FAL}}|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCON&quot; /&gt;the capture of insects, which form its ordinary food. It is a summer visitant to most parts of Europe, including these islands, and is most wantonly and needlessly destroyed by gamekeepers. A second European species of the group is the beautiful ''F. eleonoræ'', which hardly comes further north than the countries bordering the Mediterranean, and, though in some places abundant, is an extremely local bird. The largest species of this section seems to be the Neotropical ''F. femoralis'', for ''F. diroleucus'' though often ranked here is now supposed to belong to the group of typical Falcons. {{EB9 footer initials|Alfred Newton|A. N.}}

&lt;section end=&quot;FALCON&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONE&quot; /&gt;'''FALCONE, {{sc|Aniello}}''' (1600-1665), a battle-painter, was the son of a tradesman, and was born in Naples. He showed his artistic tendency at an early age, received some instruction from a relative, and then studied under Ribera (Lo Spagnoletto), of whom he ranks as the most eminent pupil. Besides battle-pictures, large and small, taken from biblical as well as secular history, he painted various religious subjects, which, however, count for little in his general reputation. He became, as a battle-painter, almost as celebrated as Borgognone (Courtois), and was named &quot;L'Oracolo delle Battaglie.&quot; His works have animation, variety, truth to nature, and careful colour. Falcone was bold, generous, used to arms, and an excellent fencer. In the insurrection of Masaniello (1647) he resolved to be bloodily avenged for the death, at the hands of two Spaniards, of a nephew, and of a pupil in the school of art which he had established in Naples. He and many of his scholars, including Salvator Rosa and Carlo Coppola, formed an armed band named the Compagnia della Morte. They scoured the streets by day, exulting in slaughter; at night they were painters again, and handled the brush with impetuous zeal. Peace being restored, they had to decamp. Falcone and Rosa made off to Rome; here Borgognone noticed the works of Falcone, and became his friend, and a French gentleman induced him to go to France, where Louis&amp;nbsp;XIV. became one of his patrons. Ultimately Colbert obtained permission for the painter to return to Naples, and there he died in 1665. Two of his battle-pieces are to be seen in the Louvre and in the Naples museum; he painted a portrait of Masaniello, and engraved a few plates. Among his principal scholars, besides Rosa and Coppola (whoso works are sometimes ascribed to Falcone himself), were Domenico Gargiuolo named Micco Spadaro, Paolo Porpora, and Andrea di Lione.

&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONE&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONERH&quot; /&gt;'''[[Author:Hugh Falconer|FALCONER, {{sc|Hugh}}]]''' (1808-1865), a distinguished palæontologist and botanist, descended from an old Scotch family, was born at Forres, 29th February 1808. In 1826 he graduated as M.A. at Aberdeen, where he began to manifest a decided taste for the study of natural history and botany. He afterwards studied medicine in the university of Edinburgh, taking the degree of M.D. in 1829. Proceeding to India in 1830 as assistant-surgeon on the Bengal establishment of the East India Company, he made on his arrival an examination of the fossil bones from Ava in the possession of the Asiatic Society of Bengal, and a description of the collection which he published immediately gave him a recognized position among the scientists of India. In 1831 he was appointed to the army station at Meerut, in the north-western provinces, and in 1832 he succeeded his friend Dr Royle as superintendent of the botanic garden of Saharunpoor. He was thus placed in a district particularly rich in palæontological remains, the existence of which were, however, then unknown; and he immediately set to work to investigate both its natural history and geology. In 1834 he published a description of the geological character of the neighbouring Sewalik hills, in the Tertiary strata of which he discovered bones of crocodiles, tortoises, and other fossil remains; and subsequently, along with other conjoint labourers, he brought to light a sub-tropical fossil fauna of unexampled extent and richness. For these valuable discoveries he and Captain Cautley received in 1837 the Wollaston medal in duplicate from the Geological Society of London. In 1834 Falconer was appointed to inquire into the fitness of India for the growth of the tea-plant, and it was on his recommendation that it was introduced into that country. He also made large natural history collections, not only of the productions of the country round Saharunpoor, but also of the valley of Kashmir and the countries to the north of it, exploring at the same time the glacier on the southern flank of the Muztagh range, and the great glaciers of Arindoh and of the Braldoh valley. He was compelled by illness to leave India in 1842, and during his stay in England, besides reading various papers on his discoveries before several learned societies, he occupied himself with the classification and arrangement of the Indian fossils presented to the British Museum and East India House, chiefly by himself and Captain Cautley. In 1848 he was appointed superintendent of the Calcutta botanical garden, and professor of botany in the medical college; and on entering on his duties he was at once employed by the Indian Government and the Agricultural and Horticultural Society as their adviser on all matters connected with the vegetable products of India. Being compelled by the state of his health to leave India in 1855, he spent the remainder of his life chiefly in examining fossil species in England and the Continent corresponding to those which he had discovered in India. In the course of his researches he became interested in the question of the antiquity of the human race, and actually commenced a work on &quot;Primeval Man,&quot; which, however, he was not spared to finish. He died 31st January 1865. He was a member of many learned societies, both British and foreign. Shortly after his death a committee was formed for the promotion of a &quot;Falconer Memorial.&quot; This took the shape of a marble bust, which was placed in the rooms of the Royal Society of London, and of a Falconer scholarship of the annual value of £100, open for competition to graduates in science or medicine of the university of Edinburgh.

{{EB1911 fine print|Dr Falconer's botanical notes, with 450 coloured drawings of Kashmir and Indian plants, have been deposited in the library at Kew, and his ''Palæontological Memoirs and Notes'', comprising all his papers read before learned societies, have been edited, with a biographical sketch, by Charles Murchison, M.D., London, 1868.}}

&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONERH&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONERW&quot; /&gt;'''[[Author:William Falconer|FALCONER, {{sc|William}}]]''', our greatest naval poet,—Charles Dibdin taking rank as second,—was born in Edinburgh, February 11, 1732. His father was a wig-maker, and carried on business in one of the small shops with wooden fronts at the Netherbow Port, an antique castellated structure which remained till 1764, dividing High Street from the Canongate. The old man, who is described as a sort of humorist, was unfortunate. Of his three children two were deaf and dumb; he became bankrupt, then tried business as a grocer, and finally died in extreme poverty. William, the son, having received a scanty education, was put to sea. He served on board a Leith merchant vessel, and in his eighteenth year was fortunate enough to obtain the appointment of second mate of the &quot;Britannia,&quot; a vessel employed in the Levant trade, and sailed from Alexandria for Venice. The &quot;Britannia&quot; was overtaken by a dreadful storm off Cape Colonna and was wrecked, only three of the crew being saved. Falconer was happily one of the three, and the incidents of the voyage and its disastrous termination formed the subject of his poem of ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]''. &quot;In all Attica,&quot; says Byron, &quot;if we except Athens itself and Marathon, there is no scene more interesting than Cape Colonna. To the antiquary and artist, sixteen columns are an inexhaustible source of observation and design; to the philosopher the supposed scene of Plato's conversations will not be unwelcome; and the&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONERW&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="8377" sha1="8rbcdaola2t4zrzwwg43ch3jetjcude" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{larger|4}}|{{larger|FAL—FAL}}|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCON&quot; /&gt;the capture of insects, which form its ordinary food. It is a summer visitant to most parts of Europe, including these islands, and is most wantonly and needlessly destroyed by gamekeepers. A second European species of the group is the beautiful ''F. eleonoræ'', which hardly comes further north than the countries bordering the Mediterranean, and, though in some places abundant, is an extremely local bird. The largest species of this section seems to be the Neotropical ''F. femoralis'', for ''F. diroleucus'' though often ranked here is now supposed to belong to the group of typical Falcons. {{EB9 footer initials|Alfred Newton|A. N.}}

&lt;section end=&quot;FALCON&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONE&quot; /&gt;'''FALCONE, {{sc|Aniello}}''' (1600-1665), a battle-painter, was the son of a tradesman, and was born in Naples. He showed his artistic tendency at an early age, received some instruction from a relative, and then studied under Ribera (Lo Spagnoletto), of whom he ranks as the most eminent pupil. Besides battle-pictures, large and small, taken from biblical as well as secular history, he painted various religious subjects, which, however, count for little in his general reputation. He became, as a battle-painter, almost as celebrated as Borgognone (Courtois), and was named &quot;L'Oracolo delle Battaglie.&quot; His works have animation, variety, truth to nature, and careful colour. Falcone was bold, generous, used to arms, and an excellent fencer. In the insurrection of Masaniello (1647) he resolved to be bloodily avenged for the death, at the hands of two Spaniards, of a nephew, and of a pupil in the school of art which he had established in Naples. He and many of his scholars, including Salvator Rosa and Carlo Coppola, formed an armed band named the Compagnia della Morte. They scoured the streets by day, exulting in slaughter; at night they were painters again, and handled the brush with impetuous zeal. Peace being restored, they had to decamp. Falcone and Rosa made off to Rome; here Borgognone noticed the works of Falcone, and became his friend, and a French gentleman induced him to go to France, where Louis&amp;nbsp;XIV. became one of his patrons. Ultimately Colbert obtained permission for the painter to return to Naples, and there he died in 1665. Two of his battle-pieces are to be seen in the Louvre and in the Naples museum; he painted a portrait of Masaniello, and engraved a few plates. Among his principal scholars, besides Rosa and Coppola (whoso works are sometimes ascribed to Falcone himself), were Domenico Gargiuolo named Micco Spadaro, Paolo Porpora, and Andrea di Lione.

&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONE&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONERH&quot; /&gt;'''[[Author:Hugh Falconer|FALCONER, {{sc|Hugh}}]]''' (1808-1865), a distinguished palæontologist and botanist, descended from an old Scotch family, was born at Forres, 29th February 1808. In 1826 he graduated as M.A. at Aberdeen, where he began to manifest a decided taste for the study of natural history and botany. He afterwards studied medicine in the university of Edinburgh, taking the degree of M.D. in 1829. Proceeding to India in 1830 as assistant-surgeon on the Bengal establishment of the East India Company, he made on his arrival an examination of the fossil bones from Ava in the possession of the Asiatic Society of Bengal, and a description of the collection which he published immediately gave him a recognized position among the scientists of India. In 1831 he was appointed to the army station at Meerut, in the north-western provinces, and in 1832 he succeeded his friend Dr Royle as superintendent of the botanic garden of Saharunpoor. He was thus placed in a district particularly rich in palæontological remains, the existence of which were, however, then unknown; and he immediately set to work to investigate both its natural history and geology. In 1834 he published a description of the geological character of the neighbouring Sewalik hills, in the Tertiary strata of which he discovered bones of crocodiles, tortoises, and other fossil remains; and subsequently, along with other conjoint labourers, he brought to light a sub-tropical fossil fauna of unexampled extent and richness. For these valuable discoveries he and Captain Cautley received in 1837 the Wollaston medal in duplicate from the Geological Society of London. In 1834 Falconer was appointed to inquire into the fitness of India for the growth of the tea-plant, and it was on his recommendation that it was introduced into that country. He also made large natural history collections, not only of the productions of the country round Saharunpoor, but also of the valley of Kashmir and the countries to the north of it, exploring at the same time the glacier on the southern flank of the Muztagh range, and the great glaciers of Arindoh and of the Braldoh valley. He was compelled by illness to leave India in 1842, and during his stay in England, besides reading various papers on his discoveries before several learned societies, he occupied himself with the classification and arrangement of the Indian fossils presented to the British Museum and East India House, chiefly by himself and Captain Cautley. In 1848 he was appointed superintendent of the Calcutta botanical garden, and professor of botany in the medical college; and on entering on his duties he was at once employed by the Indian Government and the Agricultural and Horticultural Society as their adviser on all matters connected with the vegetable products of India. Being compelled by the state of his health to leave India in 1855, he spent the remainder of his life chiefly in examining fossil species in England and the Continent corresponding to those which he had discovered in India. In the course of his researches he became interested in the question of the antiquity of the human race, and actually commenced a work on &quot;Primeval Man,&quot; which, however, he was not spared to finish. He died 31st January 1865. He was a member of many learned societies, both British and foreign. Shortly after his death a committee was formed for the promotion of a &quot;Falconer Memorial.&quot; This took the shape of a marble bust, which was placed in the rooms of the Royal Society of London, and of a Falconer scholarship of the annual value of £100, open for competition to graduates in science or medicine of the university of Edinburgh.

{{EB1911 fine print|Dr Falconer's botanical notes, with 450 coloured drawings of Kashmir and Indian plants, have been deposited in the library at Kew, and his ''Palæontological Memoirs and Notes'', comprising all his papers read before learned societies, have been edited, with a biographical sketch, by Charles Murchison, M.D., London, 1868.}}

&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONERH&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONERW&quot; /&gt;'''[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|FALCONER, {{sc|William}}]]''', our greatest naval poet,—Charles Dibdin taking rank as second,—was born in Edinburgh, February 11, 1732. His father was a wig-maker, and carried on business in one of the small shops with wooden fronts at the Netherbow Port, an antique castellated structure which remained till 1764, dividing High Street from the Canongate. The old man, who is described as a sort of humorist, was unfortunate. Of his three children two were deaf and dumb; he became bankrupt, then tried business as a grocer, and finally died in extreme poverty. William, the son, having received a scanty education, was put to sea. He served on board a Leith merchant vessel, and in his eighteenth year was fortunate enough to obtain the appointment of second mate of the &quot;Britannia,&quot; a vessel employed in the Levant trade, and sailed from Alexandria for Venice. The &quot;Britannia&quot; was overtaken by a dreadful storm off Cape Colonna and was wrecked, only three of the crew being saved. Falconer was happily one of the three, and the incidents of the voyage and its disastrous termination formed the subject of his poem of ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]''. &quot;In all Attica,&quot; says Byron, &quot;if we except Athens itself and Marathon, there is no scene more interesting than Cape Colonna. To the antiquary and artist, sixteen columns are an inexhaustible source of observation and design; to the philosopher the supposed scene of Plato's conversations will not be unwelcome; and the&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONERW&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="8018" sha1="retovay26krgrmofbrh4l7808deuy55" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;F A L F A L&lt;/noinclude&gt;traveller will be struck with the beauty of the prospect over 'isles that crown the Ægean deep.' But for an Englishman Colonna has yet an additional interest, as the actual spot of Falconer's ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]. Pallas and Plato are forgotten in the recollection of Falconer and Campbell—

{{fine block|{{ppoem|{{fqm|{{&quot; '}}}}Here in the dead of night, by Lonna's steep, The seaman's cry was heard along the deep.{{' &quot;}}}}}}

After the wreck of the &quot;Britannia&quot; and his return to England, Falconer, in his nineteenth year, appeared as a poet. He printed at Edinburgh an elegy on Frederick, prince of Wales,—a puerile inflated performance,—and afterwards contributed short pieces to the ''Gentleman's Magazine''. Some of these descriptive and lyrical effusions possess merit. The fine naval song of ''The Storm'' (&quot;Cease, rude Boreas&quot;), reputed to be by George Alexander Stevens, the dramatic writer and lecturer, has been ascribed to Falconer, but apparently on no authority. It is foreign to his usual style. Had he been the author he would assuredly have claimed it. Falconer continued in the merchant service until the spring of 1762, when he gained the patronage of Edward, duke of York, by dedicating to him his poem of ''The Shipwreck'', which appeared in May of that year, &quot;printed for the author.&quot; The duke advised him to enter the royal navy, and before the end of summer the poet-sailor was rated as a midshipman on board the &quot;Royal George.&quot; But as this ship was paid off at the peace of 1763, and as Falconer's period of service had been too short to enable him to obtain the commission of lieutenant, he was advised to exchange the military for the civil department of the navy, and in the course of the same year, he received an appointment as purser of the &quot;Glory&quot; frigate, a situation which he held until that vessel was laid up on ordinary at Chatham. In 1764 he published a new edition of ''The Shipwreck'', corrected and enlarged, and printed, not for the author, as in the former instance, but for Andrew Millar, the publisher of Hume and Robertson, and whom Johnson called the Mæcenas of the age. About nine hundred lines were added to this new edition of the poem, including what may be termed its character-painting and elaborated description and episodes. In the same year, 1764, Falconer published a political satire, a virulent rhyming tirade against Wilkes and Churchill, entitled ''The Demagogue;'' and in 1769 appeared his ''Universal Marine Dictionary'', an elaborate and valuable work. While engaged on this dictionary, Mr Murray, a bookseller in Fleet Street, father of Byron's munificent publisher and correspondent, wished him to join him as a partner in business. The poet declined the offer, probably because his dictionary was then near completion, and he might reasonably anticipate from its publication some favourable naval appointment. He did receive this reward; he was appointed purser of the &quot;Aurora &quot;frigate, which had been commissioned to carry out to India certain supervisors or superintendents of the East India Company. Besides his nomination as purser, Falconer was promised the post of private secretary to the commissioners. Before sailing he published a third edition of ''The Shipwreck'', which had again undergone &quot;correction,&quot; but not improvement. Mr Stanier Clarke conceived that the poet, in his agitation and joy on being appointed to the &quot;Aurora,&quot; had neglected this edition, and left the last alterations to his friend Mallet; but Mallet had then been more than four years in his grave, and Falconer, in the &quot;advertisement&quot; which he prefixed to the volume, and which is dated from Somerset House, October 1, 1769, said he had been encouraged by the favourable reception the poem had met with to give it &quot;a strict and thorough revision.&quot; The day after this announcement the poet sailed in the &quot;Aurora&quot; from Spithead. The vessel arrived safely at the Cape of Good Hope, and having passed a fortnight there, left on the 27th of December. She was never more heard of, having, as is supposed, foundered at sea. The captain was a stranger to the navigation, and had obstinately persisted in proceeding by the Mozambique Channel instead of stretching as usual into the Indian Ocean south of Madagascar. Every commander of a vessel, as Fielding has remarked, claims absolute dominion in his little wooden world, and in too many instances shows tho dangerous consequences of absolute power. 

Thus miserably perished William Falconer in the thirty-seventh year of his age. His fame rests on his poem of ''The Shipwreck'', and rests securely. In that work he did not aspire to produce a great effect by a few bold touches, or the rapid and masterly grouping of appalling or horrible circumstances. He labours in detail, bringing before us the events as they arise, and conducting us with an interest constantly increasing towards the catastrophe. Such a tremendous picture of shipwreck as that which Byron has, in wild sportiveness, thrown out in Don Juan, immeasurably transcends the powers of Falconer, and, indeed, stands alone in its terrible sublimity; but, on the other hand, the naval poet, by the truth and reality of his descriptions, ultimately impresses the mind of the reader, if not with such vivid force, perhaps with even more enduring effect. Some of the classic invocations to the shores of Greece, and some descriptive passages, are a little tawdry, but the grand incidents of the poem are never forgotten. The personification of the ship in its last struggles is sublime as well as affecting, and the reader's anxiety and sympathy with the principal characters and the hapless crew never slumber. Nor are the technical expressions and directions a drawback to the general reader. They are explained in footnotes, and give a truth and reality to the narrative; and they do not occur in the more impassioned scenes. 
{{EB9 footer initials|R. CA.}} (R. CA.) 

'''FALCONET, {{sc|Étienne Maurice}}''' (1716-1791), a French sculptor, was born at Paris in 1716. His parents were poor, and he was at first apprenticed to a carpenter, but some of his clay-figures, with the making of which he occupied his leisure hours, having attracted the notice of Lemoine, that sculptor made him his pupil. While diligently prosecuting his profession he found time to study Greek and Latin, and also wrote several brochures on art, in which many names both ancient and modern of great reputation are treated in a remarkably disparaging way. His artistic productions are characterized by the same defects as his writings, for though manifesting considerable cleverness and some power of imagination, they display in many cases a false and fantastic taste, the result most probably of an excessive striving after originality. One of his most successful statues was one of Milo of Crotona, which secured his admission to the membership of the Academy of Fine Arts. Many of his works, being placed in churches, were destroyed at the time of the French Revolution. At the invitation of the empress Catherine he went to St Petersburg, where he executed a colossal statue of Peter the Great in bronze. On his return to Paris in 1788 he became director of the French Academy of Painting. He died 4th January 1791. 

{{EB1911 fine print|Among his writings are ''Reflexions sur la sculpture'' (Par. 1768), and ''Observations sur la statue de Marc Aurèle'' (Par. 1771). The whole were collected under the title of ''Œuvres littéraires'' (6 vols., Lausanne, 1781-82; 3 vols., Paris, 1787). }}

'''FALCONRY''', the art of employing falcons and hawks in the chase,—a sport the practice of which is usually termed hawking. Falconry was for many ages of the Old World's history one of the principal sports. Probably it may be considered as having been always as purely a sport as it is at the present day; for even in the rudest times man must have been possessed of means and appliances for the capture of wild birds and beasts more&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rh||{{larger|FAL—FAL}}|{{larger|5}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONER&quot; /&gt;traveller will be struck with the beauty of the prospect over 'isles that crown the Ægean deep.' But for an Englishman Colonna has yet an additional interest, as the actual spot of Falconer's ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]. Pallas and Plato are forgotten in the recollection of Falconer and Campbell—

{{fine block|{{ppoem|{{fqm|{{&quot; '}}}}Here in the dead of night, by Lonna's steep,
The seaman's cry was heard along the deep.{{' &quot;}}}}}}

After the wreck of the &quot;Britannia&quot; and his return to England, Falconer, in his nineteenth year, appeared as a poet. He printed at Edinburgh an elegy on Frederick, prince of Wales,—a puerile inflated performance,—and afterwards contributed short pieces to the ''Gentleman's Magazine''. Some of these descriptive and lyrical effusions possess merit. The fine naval song of ''The Storm'' (&quot;Cease, rude Boreas&quot;), reputed to be by George Alexander Stevens, the dramatic writer and lecturer, has been ascribed to Falconer, but apparently on no authority. It is foreign to his usual style. Had he been the author he would assuredly have claimed it. Falconer continued in the merchant service until the spring of 1762, when he gained the patronage of Edward, duke of York, by dedicating to him his poem of ''The Shipwreck'', which appeared in May of that year, &quot;printed for the author.&quot; The duke advised him to enter the royal navy, and before the end of summer the poet-sailor was rated as a midshipman on board the &quot;Royal George.&quot; But as this ship was paid off at the peace of 1763, and as Falconer's period of service had been too short to enable him to obtain the commission of lieutenant, he was advised to exchange the military for the civil department of the navy, and in the course of the same year, he received an appointment as purser of the &quot;Glory&quot; frigate, a situation which he held until that vessel was laid up on ordinary at Chatham. In 1764 he published a new edition of ''The Shipwreck'', corrected and enlarged, and printed, not for the author, as in the former instance, but for Andrew Millar, the publisher of Hume and Robertson, and whom Johnson called the Mæcenas of the age. About nine hundred lines were added to this new edition of the poem, including what may be termed its character-painting and elaborated description and episodes. In the same year, 1764, Falconer published a political satire, a virulent rhyming tirade against Wilkes and Churchill, entitled ''The Demagogue;'' and in 1769 appeared his ''Universal Marine Dictionary'', an elaborate and valuable work. While engaged on this dictionary, Mr Murray, a bookseller in Fleet Street, father of Byron's munificent publisher and correspondent, wished him to join him as a partner in business. The poet declined the offer, probably because his dictionary was then near completion, and he might reasonably anticipate from its publication some favourable naval appointment. He did receive this reward; he was appointed purser of the &quot;Aurora &quot;frigate, which had been commissioned to carry out to India certain supervisors or superintendents of the East India Company. Besides his nomination as purser, Falconer was promised the post of private secretary to the commissioners. Before sailing he published a third edition of ''The Shipwreck'', which had again undergone &quot;correction,&quot; but not improvement. Mr Stanier Clarke conceived that the poet, in his agitation and joy on being appointed to the &quot;Aurora,&quot; had neglected this edition, and left the last alterations to his friend Mallet; but Mallet had then been more than four years in his grave, and Falconer, in the &quot;advertisement&quot; which he prefixed to the volume, and which is dated from Somerset House, October 1, 1769, said he had been encouraged by the favourable reception the poem had met with to give it &quot;a strict and thorough revision.&quot; The day after this announcement the poet sailed in the &quot;Aurora&quot; from Spithead. The vessel arrived safely at the Cape of Good Hope, and having passed a fortnight there, left on the 27th of December. She was never more heard of, having, as is supposed, foundered at sea. The captain was a stranger to the navigation, and had obstinately persisted in proceeding by the Mozambique Channel instead of stretching as usual into the Indian Ocean south of Madagascar. Every commander of a vessel, as Fielding has remarked, claims absolute dominion in his little wooden world, and in too many instances shows tho dangerous consequences of absolute power. 

Thus miserably perished William Falconer in the thirty-seventh year of his age. His fame rests on his poem of ''The Shipwreck'', and rests securely. In that work he did not aspire to produce a great effect by a few bold touches, or the rapid and masterly grouping of appalling or horrible circumstances. He labours in detail, bringing before us the events as they arise, and conducting us with an interest constantly increasing towards the catastrophe. Such a tremendous picture of shipwreck as that which Byron has, in wild sportiveness, thrown out in Don Juan, immeasurably transcends the powers of Falconer, and, indeed, stands alone in its terrible sublimity; but, on the other hand, the naval poet, by the truth and reality of his descriptions, ultimately impresses the mind of the reader, if not with such vivid force, perhaps with even more enduring effect. Some of the classic invocations to the shores of Greece, and some descriptive passages, are a little tawdry, but the grand incidents of the poem are never forgotten. The personification of the ship in its last struggles is sublime as well as affecting, and the reader's anxiety and sympathy with the principal characters and the hapless crew never slumber. Nor are the technical expressions and directions a drawback to the general reader. They are explained in footnotes, and give a truth and reality to the narrative; and they do not occur in the more impassioned scenes. 
{{EB9 footer initials|Robert Carruthers|R. CA.}}

&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONER&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONET&quot; /&gt;'''FALCONET, {{sc|Étienne Maurice}}''' (1716-1791), a French sculptor, was born at Paris in 1716. His parents were poor, and he was at first apprenticed to a carpenter, but some of his clay-figures, with the making of which he occupied his leisure hours, having attracted the notice of Lemoine, that sculptor made him his pupil. While diligently prosecuting his profession he found time to study Greek and Latin, and also wrote several brochures on art, in which many names both ancient and modern of great reputation are treated in a remarkably disparaging way. His artistic productions are characterized by the same defects as his writings, for though manifesting considerable cleverness and some power of imagination, they display in many cases a false and fantastic taste, the result most probably of an excessive striving after originality. One of his most successful statues was one of Milo of Crotona, which secured his admission to the membership of the Academy of Fine Arts. Many of his works, being placed in churches, were destroyed at the time of the French Revolution. At the invitation of the empress Catherine he went to St Petersburg, where he executed a colossal statue of Peter the Great in bronze. On his return to Paris in 1788 he became director of the French Academy of Painting. He died 4th January 1791. 

{{EB1911 fine print|Among his writings are ''Reflexions sur la sculpture'' (Par. 1768), and ''Observations sur la statue de Marc Aurèle'' (Par. 1771). The whole were collected under the title of ''Œuvres littéraires'' (6 vols., Lausanne, 1781-82; 3 vols., Paris, 1787). }}

&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONET&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONRY&quot; /&gt;'''FALCONRY''', the art of employing falcons and hawks in the chase,—a sport the practice of which is usually termed hawking. Falconry was for many ages of the Old World's history one of the principal sports. Probably it may be considered as having been always as purely a sport as it is at the present day; for even in the rudest times man must have been possessed of means and appliances for the capture of wild birds and beasts more
&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONRY&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rh||{{larger|FAL—FAL}}|{{larger|5}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONERW&quot; /&gt;traveller will be struck with the beauty of the prospect over 'isles that crown the Ægean deep.' But for an Englishman Colonna has yet an additional interest, as the actual spot of Falconer's ''Shipwreck''. Pallas and Plato are forgotten in the recollection of Falconer and Campbell—

{{fine block|{{ppoem|{{fqm|{{&quot; '}}}}Here in the dead of night, by Lonna's steep,
The seaman's cry was heard along the deep.{{' &quot;}}}}}}

After the wreck of the &quot;Britannia&quot; and his return to England, Falconer, in his nineteenth year, appeared as a poet. He printed at Edinburgh an elegy on Frederick, prince of Wales,—a puerile inflated performance,—and afterwards contributed short pieces to the ''Gentleman's Magazine''. Some of these descriptive and lyrical effusions possess merit. The fine naval song of ''The Storm'' (&quot;Cease, rude Boreas&quot;), reputed to be by George Alexander Stevens, the dramatic writer and lecturer, has been ascribed to Falconer, but apparently on no authority. It is foreign to his usual style. Had he been the author he would assuredly have claimed it. Falconer continued in the merchant service until the spring of 1762, when he gained the patronage of Edward, duke of York, by dedicating to him his poem of ''The Shipwreck'', which appeared in May of that year, &quot;printed for the author.&quot; The duke advised him to enter the royal navy, and before the end of summer the poet-sailor was rated as a midshipman on board the &quot;Royal George.&quot; But as this ship was paid off at the peace of 1763, and as Falconer's period of service had been too short to enable him to obtain the commission of lieutenant, he was advised to exchange the military for the civil department of the navy, and in the course of the same year, he received an appointment as purser of the &quot;Glory&quot; frigate, a situation which he held until that vessel was laid up on ordinary at Chatham. In 1764 he published a new edition of ''The Shipwreck'', corrected and enlarged, and printed, not for the author, as in the former instance, but for Andrew Millar, the publisher of Hume and Robertson, and whom Johnson called the Mæcenas of the age. About nine hundred lines were added to this new edition of the poem, including what may be termed its character-painting and elaborated description and episodes. In the same year, 1764, Falconer published a political satire, a virulent rhyming tirade against Wilkes and Churchill, entitled ''The Demagogue;'' and in 1769 appeared his ''Universal Marine Dictionary'', an elaborate and valuable work. While engaged on this dictionary, Mr Murray, a bookseller in Fleet Street, father of Byron's munificent publisher and correspondent, wished him to join him as a partner in business. The poet declined the offer, probably because his dictionary was then near completion, and he might reasonably anticipate from its publication some favourable naval appointment. He did receive this reward; he was appointed purser of the &quot;Aurora &quot;frigate, which had been commissioned to carry out to India certain supervisors or superintendents of the East India Company. Besides his nomination as purser, Falconer was promised the post of private secretary to the commissioners. Before sailing he published a third edition of ''The Shipwreck'', which had again undergone &quot;correction,&quot; but not improvement. Mr Stanier Clarke conceived that the poet, in his agitation and joy on being appointed to the &quot;Aurora,&quot; had neglected this edition, and left the last alterations to his friend Mallet; but Mallet had then been more than four years in his grave, and Falconer, in the &quot;advertisement&quot; which he prefixed to the volume, and which is dated from Somerset House, October 1, 1769, said he had been encouraged by the favourable reception the poem had met with to give it &quot;a strict and thorough revision.&quot; The day after this announcement the poet sailed in the &quot;Aurora&quot; from Spithead. The vessel arrived safely at the Cape of Good Hope, and having passed a fortnight there, left on the 27th of December. She was never more heard of, having, as is supposed, foundered at sea. The captain was a stranger to the navigation, and had obstinately persisted in proceeding by the Mozambique Channel instead of stretching as usual into the Indian Ocean south of Madagascar. Every commander of a vessel, as Fielding has remarked, claims absolute dominion in his little wooden world, and in too many instances shows tho dangerous consequences of absolute power. 

Thus miserably perished William Falconer in the thirty-seventh year of his age. His fame rests on his poem of ''The Shipwreck'', and rests securely. In that work he did not aspire to produce a great effect by a few bold touches, or the rapid and masterly grouping of appalling or horrible circumstances. He labours in detail, bringing before us the events as they arise, and conducting us with an interest constantly increasing towards the catastrophe. Such a tremendous picture of shipwreck as that which Byron has, in wild sportiveness, thrown out in Don Juan, immeasurably transcends the powers of Falconer, and, indeed, stands alone in its terrible sublimity; but, on the other hand, the naval poet, by the truth and reality of his descriptions, ultimately impresses the mind of the reader, if not with such vivid force, perhaps with even more enduring effect. Some of the classic invocations to the shores of Greece, and some descriptive passages, are a little tawdry, but the grand incidents of the poem are never forgotten. The personification of the ship in its last struggles is sublime as well as affecting, and the reader's anxiety and sympathy with the principal characters and the hapless crew never slumber. Nor are the technical expressions and directions a drawback to the general reader. They are explained in footnotes, and give a truth and reality to the narrative; and they do not occur in the more impassioned scenes. 
{{EB9 footer initials|Robert Carruthers|R. CA.}}

&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONERW&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONET&quot; /&gt;'''FALCONET, {{sc|Étienne Maurice}}''' (1716-1791), a French sculptor, was born at Paris in 1716. His parents were poor, and he was at first apprenticed to a carpenter, but some of his clay-figures, with the making of which he occupied his leisure hours, having attracted the notice of Lemoine, that sculptor made him his pupil. While diligently prosecuting his profession he found time to study Greek and Latin, and also wrote several brochures on art, in which many names both ancient and modern of great reputation are treated in a remarkably disparaging way. His artistic productions are characterized by the same defects as his writings, for though manifesting considerable cleverness and some power of imagination, they display in many cases a false and fantastic taste, the result most probably of an excessive striving after originality. One of his most successful statues was one of Milo of Crotona, which secured his admission to the membership of the Academy of Fine Arts. Many of his works, being placed in churches, were destroyed at the time of the French Revolution. At the invitation of the empress Catherine he went to St Petersburg, where he executed a colossal statue of Peter the Great in bronze. On his return to Paris in 1788 he became director of the French Academy of Painting. He died 4th January 1791. 

{{EB1911 fine print|Among his writings are ''Reflexions sur la sculpture'' (Par. 1768), and ''Observations sur la statue de Marc Aurèle'' (Par. 1771). The whole were collected under the title of ''Œuvres littéraires'' (6 vols., Lausanne, 1781-82; 3 vols., Paris, 1787). }}

&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONET&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;FALCONRY&quot; /&gt;'''FALCONRY''', the art of employing falcons and hawks in the chase,—a sport the practice of which is usually termed hawking. Falconry was for many ages of the Old World's history one of the principal sports. Probably it may be considered as having been always as purely a sport as it is at the present day; for even in the rudest times man must have been possessed of means and appliances for the capture of wild birds and beasts more
&lt;section end=&quot;FALCONRY&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>of4yx00s7ck28eggiiubwtofgbzhp7d</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Author:Sheba May Childs Hargreaves</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
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        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
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      <text bytes="679" sha1="9i8vy94xgktrla190vxw4w4moc23l1q" xml:space="preserve">{{author
 | firstname    = Sheba
 | lastname     = Hargreaves
 | last_initial = Ha
 | description  = Writer from Oregon, author of ''The Cabin at the Trail's End'', considered one of the pioneer women of the West. 
}}

==Works==
* &quot;[[Women of the West/Oregon#153|Pioneer Women of the West]]&quot; (1928)
* {{cite|[[Cabin at the Trail's End|The Cabin at the Trail's End]]: A Story of Oregon}} (1928) {{ssl|Cabin at the Trail's End (IA cabinattrailsend0000sheb).pdf}} {{smaller|and}} {{ssl|The Cabin at the Trail's End.djvu}}
* {{cite|Ward of the Redskins}} (1929, LCCN [https://www.loc.gov/item/29017826 29017826]) {{IAsl|wardofredskins0000unse}}


{{PD-US|1960}}
{{authority control}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Peerage (Edition 1, Volume 8).djvu/570</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3026878</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:34:00Z</timestamp>
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GENERAL INDEX. 
WonMD, PMragM fit on—, ▼!, 474/6. 
WMdhaj, Chediire, iii, 229, 87. 
Wordiworth*! ** WbiU Doe of Rybtone,&quot; 
« 292 a. • 
WorkMp) Notto, ▼!, 27, 29 : 66, d. 
** Worm of Lynton,*' Tii, 184, /. 
Wortloy, oa York, vUi, 122, e. 
„ Montagu, Lady Mary—, ii, 
92, e. 
Wmy of aWntworih, iv, 86, b. 
Wren, Sir Xtopber— , iii, 880, d. 
Wrentham, Suffolk, ▼iii, 2, e. 
Write of eummona, Baroniee, e, 1600, 
uaually cr. by — , 
▼iii, 18, e. 
Cr. hered. peer- 
agee by ezpreaa 
worde, iii, 866, 6. 
Did — , and litting 
in Pari, in fact 
cr. bered. peer- 
age, viii, 2, e; 
82, e. 
„ Dignitiea cr. by — , 
descendible to 
female beirs, ii, 
802,6. 
„ Barly — ,diacuMed, 
▼iii, 261, kat 
par. and e. 
$t 
N 
M 
It 
• t 
I* 
•• 
It 
»f 
&gt;t 
tt 
tl 
tt 
H 
&gt;• 
It 
&gt;» 
Writa of aammons, Emm in, .i* 2S» 
note,&amp; fbum. 
First extant — ^,'iii, 
866, d. ■ 
892,1. 
to oommonen 
fun uxorii^ in 
their own name, 
▼i, 292, 6. 
Wrongful aaanmption of diguitiea, ▼{, 
46 t ; 172/8, (L 
Wn*zton Abbey, ir, 122, 28, ▼i, 66, laat 
line. 
Wry the, John—, Garter King, ▼ii, 198, 4. 
Wycherley, Uie Dramatist, in, 171, 47. 
Wydifl; ▼i, 119, 81. 
Wynn estates, viii, 149, e. 
York, Cardinal—, ^i, 218, 20. 
„ Herald, ii, 270, h. 
„ House, ▼, 286, c 
Yougfaal Abbey, iii, 868, 22. 
Zouoh famOy, Wii, 629, 19.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Peerage Ed 1 Vol 7.djvu/100</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3026983</id>
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      <id>15133293</id>
      <parentid>9860248</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:34:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
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V. 1701, 5. VFlULUm (Mackenzie), Earf. of Seaforth [1G23], I 
to and Lord Mackenzie of Eistam. [1609], in the peerage of Sc.it- 
17IG. land, 1st s. and h., probably sti/lrd v.p. [.nun Mackenzie till he I 
tve. to the pea-age [S. J, M above, in Jutt 1701. He atlended lit the I 
head nf above 3,000 men the meeting in 171 5 lit Hraemar, em present :it Sherill'mnir. 
after which he was made Lieut. Gen. of the Northern Counties, on behalf ot 
&quot;The Pretender.&quot; He was accordingly attainted 7 May 17 Hi. whereby all  
his honour.':, as well as his estates, were lorftited.' 1 ) He took part in the expedi- 
tion to the Western Highlands aud was severely wounded at the battle of 
Glenshiels, 10 June 1719. In 1725 he made arrangements with his followers for 
their paying their future rent to the Government, and was, 12 July 1726, His- 
charged from the penalties nf execution or imprisonment, being by act, 1738, 
further restored to personal immunities. He m. 22 April 1715, Mary, da. anil h. 
of Nicholas Kennet, of Coxhow, CO, Northumberland. She d. at Paris Aug. 1739. 
He d. in the Island of Lewes, 8 Jan. 1740, aud was bur. in the chapel of Ui 
there. 
Kenneth Mackenzie, styled Lord Fortrose, ( b ) 1st s. ami h., h. about 
1718, who but for the attainder of his father would have been after Jan. 1710 
the 0th Earl of Seaforth, &amp;c. [S.] He zealously supported the Government during 
the insurrection of 1745. He was M.P. for Inverness, 1741, and fur Koss-sliire, 
1747 and 1754. He m. 11 Sep. 1741, Mary, 1st da. of Alexander (Stkwaiit), 6th 
EaBL of G.u.low.w [Sj, by his first wife, Anne, da. nf William (Keith), KabI 
Mauischal [S.J She &lt;/. 10 and was bur. 18 April 1751, at Kensington. M.I. 
He d. in Grosveuor square, 18, and was bur. 22 Oct. 1781, in Westni. Abbey, 
aged 43. Will in which he styles himself us &quot;of Seaforth, co. Scotland, Ksij., 
commonly called Lord Fortrose,&quot;( b ) dat. 3 June to 4 July, aud pr. 27 Oct. 1701. 
Earldom [I.] f. Kenneth Mackenzie, only s. and h. of tlm above, 
I. 1771 *• at E &lt;l in hurgh, 15 Jan. 1711, would but for the attainder of I 
t() ' his grandfather have been after h[-, father's death, IS Oct. 1761, 
,»,, 7th Earl of Seaforth, Sic. [S.] He was cr. 18 Nov. 1766, y 
1 ' f51 ' BARON AHDELVE and VISCOUNT FORTKOSK, both in co. | 
Wicklow [I.], and subsequently 3 Dec. 1771, KARL OF SKA- 
FORTH [I.](&lt;s) He raised a reg. of Highlanders (the 7Sth Foot) in 1771. He 
m. 7 Oct. 1765, at St. Martin's in the fields, Caroline, 1st da. of William (Stan- 
BOPB), 2d Kaui. of HaRKINOTOU, by Caroline, da. of Charles (FiTzrtuv), Duke OP I 
Ghakto.n. She, who was b. 11 March 1740/7, d. of consumption. 2 Feb. 1767, 
and was bur. 14th at Kensington (as ViscounteBS Fortrose), aged 20. ( a ) He d. 
B.p.m.(«) on his passage (with his regiment) to the East Indies, Aug. 1781, aged I 
37, when all his honours became cxlinct.{&lt;) Will pr. May 1785. 
(&quot;) See vol. iii, p. 192, note &quot;a,&quot; sub &quot; Duffus,&quot; for a list of the 19 Scotch 
Peerages forfeited thro' the Kiaing of 1715. 
( b l It is not known why the style of &quot;Fortrose&quot; was assumed instead of that 
of &quot;Mackenzie&quot; or &quot; Kintail.&quot; There was apparently neither a Viseountcy nor a 
Barony of the name of Fortrose, or Mackenzie of Fortrose, vested in his father. 
( c ) This is one of the not uncommon instances of an Irish peerage of the same 
name as a previously existing Scotch one being conferred, it being impossible after 
the Union £».], to create a peerage of Scotland. 
( d ) &quot; Her intellects were good, her person beautiful, and accomplishments 
suitable to her high birth, aud endowed with an uncommon goodness of heart,&quot; 
writes (not perhaps very grammatically) Collins in his vol. iv, p. 288, sub &quot; Harring- 
ton &quot; 
( e ) Caroline, his only da. and h., b. in London 7 July 1700, m. Count Melfort. 
( f ) In the &quot;Ann. Reg.&quot; of 1779 the death is recorded under Dec. 1770 of 
&quot; The Rt. Hon. Laily Seaforth.&quot; Query if this was a second wife of this Earl ?&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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V. 1701, 5. VFlULUm (Mackenzie), Earf. of Seaforth [1G23], I 
to and Lord Mackenzie of Eistam. [1609], in the peerage of Sc.it- 
17IG. land, 1st s. and h., probably sti/lrd v.p. [.nun Mackenzie till he I 
tve. to the pea-age [S. J, M above, in Jutt 1701. He atlended lit the I 
head nf above 3,000 men the meeting in 171 5 lit Hraemar, em present :it Sherill'mnir. 
after which he was made Lieut. Gen. of the Northern Counties, on behalf ot 
&quot;The Pretender.&quot; He was accordingly attainted 7 May 17 Hi. whereby all  
his honour.':, as well as his estates, were lorftited.' 1 ) He took part in the expedi- 
tion to the Western Highlands aud was severely wounded at the battle of 
Glenshiels, 10 June 1719. In 1725 he made arrangements with his followers for 
their paying their future rent to the Government, and was, 12 July 1726, His- 
charged from the penalties nf execution or imprisonment, being by act, 1738, 
further restored to personal immunities. He m. 22 April 1715, Mary, da. anil h. 
of Nicholas Kennet, of Coxhow, CO, Northumberland. She d. at Paris Aug. 1739. 
He d. in the Island of Lewes, 8 Jan. 1740, aud was bur. in the chapel of Ui 
there. 
Kenneth Mackenzie, styled Lord Fortrose, ( b ) 1st s. ami h., h. about 
1718, who but for the attainder of his father would have been after Jan. 1710 
the 0th Earl of Seaforth, &amp;c. [S.] He zealously supported the Government during 
the insurrection of 1745. He was M.P. for Inverness, 1741, and fur Koss-sliire, 
1747 and 1754. He m. 11 Sep. 1741, Mary, 1st da. of Alexander (Stkwaiit), 6th 
EaBL of G.u.low.w [Sj, by his first wife, Anne, da. nf William (Keith), KabI 
Mauischal [S.J She &lt;/. 10 and was bur. 18 April 1751, at Kensington. M.I. 
He d. in Grosveuor square, 18, and was bur. 22 Oct. 1781, in Westni. Abbey, 
aged 43. Will in which he styles himself us &quot;of Seaforth, co. Scotland, Ksij., 
commonly called Lord Fortrose,&quot;( b ) dat. 3 June to 4 July, aud pr. 27 Oct. 1701. 
Earldom [I.] f. Kenneth Mackenzie, only s. and h. of tlm above, 
I. 1771 *• at E &lt;l in hurgh, 15 Jan. 1711, would but for the attainder of I 
t() ' his grandfather have been after h[-, father's death, IS Oct. 1761, 
,»,, 7th Earl of Seaforth, Sic. [S.] He was cr. 18 Nov. 1766, y 
1 ' f51 ' BARON AHDELVE and VISCOUNT FORTROSE, both in co. | 
Wicklow [I.], and subsequently 3 Dec. 1771, KARL OF SKA- 
FORTH [I.](&lt;s) He raised a reg. of Highlanders (the 7Sth Foot) in 1771. He 
m. 7 Oct. 1765, at St. Martin's in the fields, Caroline, 1st da. of William (Stan- 
BOPB), 2d Kaui. of HaRKINOTOU, by Caroline, da. of Charles (FiTzrtuv), Duke OP I 
Ghakto.n. She, who was b. 11 March 1740/7, d. of consumption. 2 Feb. 1767, 
and was bur. 14th at Kensington (as ViscounteBS Fortrose), aged 20. ( a ) He d. 
B.p.m.(«) on his passage (with his regiment) to the East Indies, Aug. 1781, aged I 
37, when all his honours became cxlinct.{&lt;) Will pr. May 1785. 
(&quot;) See vol. iii, p. 192, note &quot;a,&quot; sub &quot; Duffus,&quot; for a list of the 19 Scotch 
Peerages forfeited thro' the Kiaing of 1715. 
( b l It is not known why the style of &quot;Fortrose&quot; was assumed instead of that 
of &quot;Mackenzie&quot; or &quot; Kintail.&quot; There was apparently neither a Viseountcy nor a 
Barony of the name of Fortrose, or Mackenzie of Fortrose, vested in his father. 
( c ) This is one of the not uncommon instances of an Irish peerage of the same 
name as a previously existing Scotch one being conferred, it being impossible after 
the Union £».], to create a peerage of Scotland. 
( d ) &quot; Her intellects were good, her person beautiful, and accomplishments 
suitable to her high birth, aud endowed with an uncommon goodness of heart,&quot; 
writes (not perhaps very grammatically) Collins in his vol. iv, p. 288, sub &quot; Harring- 
ton &quot; 
( e ) Caroline, his only da. and h., b. in London 7 July 1700, m. Count Melfort. 
( f ) In the &quot;Ann. Reg.&quot; of 1779 the death is recorded under Dec. 1770 of 
&quot; The Rt. Hon. Laily Seaforth.&quot; Query if this was a second wife of this Earl ?&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Jewish Encyclopedia Volume 1.pdf/57</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="7489" sha1="p6ns5ikq8lwmr66m6j7na40ymlk3l3e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|11|THE JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA|11}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Aaron ben Elijah
Aaron ibn Hayyim

THE JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA

11

AARON FRANCO PINHERO. See Pin
A AKiiN Kit N(
AARON BEN GERSHON ABULRABI OF
i&lt;

IIKl:i&gt;.

CATANIA

also Aldabi or Alrabi):
(ctllLil
hicilian scholar, cabalist, and aslroldj^cr; tlinirished
14.&quot;&gt;0.
He was a son-iu law of
Don Mosos Gabhai, an exile from Jlajorca. Aaron
was the youngest of five brothers, all rabbinic

bi'twecn 1400 and

scholars; the others were Shalluin, liarnch, Moses,
and Isaac. He studied in Trcviso, lluly. and was
familiar with the seicniitic and philiisopliic literature of his ai;i-; he was u jioiid f;i'annnari;in. and
well acquainted with the Arabic laniruaire. Like liis
father, he believed in astrolojry, and loved to observe
the horoscope. He was also an adej)! in the Cabala,
thoujsrh at times his critical spirit came in conllict
with its doctiines. On his travels he visited Tur-

key, Eirypt, Palestine, I)ainas&lt;us, and KalTa in the
Crimea.
In .lerusjdcm lie hail many disputations
with the Karaites, to which hi;, commenlary on the
Pinlateucli refers with evident pride, as liavinir vinWhile
dicated the cause of rabbinical theolo.u'y.
in Home he was admitted to the itresence of Pope
Martin V., who was surrounded by his cardinals.
Martin V. was kindly disposed lowanl the Jews, and
often discussed relijrious (|uestions with them in a
On this occasion he projKJunded
friendly manner.
to Aaron a number of very pointed i|Uestions concerninj; Biblical

and Tahnudical

pas.siiir(s.

Amoni;

other lliinirs he asked if the use of the cherubin in
the Holy of Holies was not rather antajrf&gt;nistic to
the Second Comman&lt;lnient, which prohibits idolatry.
Aaron in his commentary refers severid times to this
discussion and to the answers he jrave.
Cominir often in contact with learned Christians,
Aaron had many occasions to defend Judaism airainst
the polendcs of the Church, on the one hand, and
It was
the attacks of the Karaites on the oilier.
this unceasinfT conliici that induced him to write a
&quot; Matteh Aharon &quot; (The Stall of Aaron),
book, called
Keenly obin defen.se of the Law and tradition.
servant,

and of an independent and

critical spirit,

judjared persons and opinions freely and openly.
e.cels as a writer and as a Bible commentator,
and often upliraids the Jews of his native land for
thc-lr iL'norance and hollnw prcliiisions, at the same
timi' iiointinir with a&lt;lmi rat ion to Ihr numerous Jews

he

He

As Writer
and Bible

Commentator,

of hi^'h breeding,' he has met on his
travels.
Followinf; the principle of
a rational Biblical e.xcfresis, lie does
not h&lt;sitate occasionally to refute hagfiadic traditions which seem to conflict
with reason and common sense; and

limes, like Ibn Ezra and Samuel ben &gt;I&lt;ir, he
his disjigreenient with lialaUic interpretation.
He was fully conversant wilh the views
of the Karaites and Samaritans and eatrer, in his
explanation of the Bible, to refute now Christian
and now Jlohaminedan doctrines. He boldly exposes errors wherever he finds them, claiminjr &quot;that
it is more honorable for the wise lo conunil an error
than knowinfrly lo misrepresent thi' Irulh.&quot;
Nor does lie shrink from poinlinir oiil Ihe blemi.slies he finds in the chanicler of Ihe Patriarchs.
Bein;; piiided solely by a love of truth, he, as a
matter of course, does not spare such fjiTat Bible
commentators as Rashi and Nahnianides. For the
former Aaron enlerlaineil n very hiirh reirard; of
the latter he freiiuenlly says, &quot;Willi due diference
to his honor, he misunderstood the Talmud&quot; (sic
his coiiiinentary upon (ieii. xxvii. 'J&quot;.2; Ex. xxiii. 11,

ajrainst a certain idolatrous practise.
Notwithslandinj; his liberal mind and his keen investigating
spirit, he was held in lii^'h esteem by his contempo-

may be seen from David Abi Zimra's menhim as &quot; Aaron our Kablii &quot; in No. 10 of his
responsa, where he commends him for his liberty
of tliouirht.
He was a devoted Jew, who deeply
deplored the political and social condition of the
Jews of his lime, and all the more fervently gave
expres.sion to his hope for Ihe speedy advent of the
Messiah. For his cabalistic views he quotes Recanate and Joseph Sar Shalom, bul iiol the Zohar.
Aaron states that he wrote a Hebrew grammar
entitled &quot; Ha-Meyasher &quot; (The Levelerof the Road);
raries, as

tion of

&quot; JIafteh Aharon,&quot; refeiTcd to above, a cabalistic or
metaphysical work &quot; Nizer lia-Kodesh&quot; (The Crown
of Holiness); &quot; Perah ha-Klohut&quot; (The Blo.ssoming
of ili&lt;&gt; Godhead). |iroliably of a simiAaron's lar character, and &quot;Sefer ha-Nefe.sh &quot;
Works. (The Book of the Soul). Allofthe.se
works are known only through his
own quotations in his supercommentary on Kashi.
This work, published from an incomplete manuscript, together wilh another supercommentary on
Rashi by Samuel Almosnino, by jloses Albelda, and
by Jacoi) Canizal, is one of the earliest books printed
at Constantino]de, and is therefore very rare.
According to his own leslimony, it was written in the
year 14''0 (as Perles has shown); but he intended to
compose, or, as I'erles thinks, aclually did compose,
Perles has
a larger commentary on the Pentateuch.
furnished ample proof that Aaron Aldabi or, as he
called himself, Aaron Alrabi
was a man of great
originality and merit, and it is to be hoped that his
lost works will be discovered, and that editions of
l;is commentary, b:ised on clear manuscripts exist;

—

—

Oxford aiiil elsewhere, will fully vindicate
ill
his character, though Graetz and Karpeles, in their
histories, have attacked him.
J. H. Schorr, in &quot;Zion,&quot; 1840, first called attention
to .bulrabi, erroneously calling him .Varon ben Mose
AInilii
but, owing to a misunderstanding of his remarks, he a.scribes lo him Ihe strange assertion that
Moses translated Ihe Peiilateuchfrom the Arabicinto
Ilelirew a misunderslanding repcaleil by Griltz.
&quot;Geseh. d. Juden&quot; (Ihird edition), viii. i.-iO, and
ing

;

—

by Karpeles. &quot;Ge.sch. der Judischen Literatur,&quot; p.
771
whereas Ihe author, in his commentary upon

—

xviii. '&gt;, referring to the rabbinical Hnggadah
that the angels who came to Abraham appeared as
Arabs, sjiys that they spoke in Arabic, and that
Jloses rendered their words in Hebrew a remark
which lie repeats in his comments upon Gen. xxiv.

Gen.

—

and Ex.

Zunz, &quot;Z. G..&quot; pp.

10.

.'&lt;-.')20,

and

al

i:

even stales

Sleiiisehiuider, &quot;Cat. Bodl,&quot; call him Alrabi.
Aaron's true name, however, is given in the acrostic
written by him al he end of his published comraenlary.

xv
lie

in

'.».
Like Samuel Inn Meir and Maimonides,
explains the law. &quot;Thou shall not seethe a kid
iN iMotliir's milk&quot;iK. xiii ID), us u wariiiiiL'

ii.

.&quot;)

1

I

Bini.IOCiRAPHY:

Mli'hnel,

Or

/in-7fii;/)/i»i.

No^2Sl

J. Perles'

;

vliirmi (/rm/ioii .l/&gt;ii(nilii In li'V.KI.Jiiivm.xxU
Mii-'M»: Xeulmuer. &lt;'&lt;i(. lliull.Uehr. MSS. Sx.'iM: VoselFor ctinvi-t
sleln ami KleKiT. 'f*.ir/i. 't../ii'/i&quot;a ill /fii»i, II. iVs.
rt'iiiiini? ef inline, see ,/» ir. (.iiiiirf. /iVr. .xl. WW.
K.
J. L.
iirtli'le,

S.—

AARON HAMON. See H.mon-, A.ron,
AARON (BEN ABRAHAM BEN SAM-

UEL) IBN HAYYIM:

M..n.eeaii

l!il&gt;liial

and

Taliuudic coninieiilalor; flourished al the beginning
of the sevenleeiith cenlury al Fez; died at Jerusaleiu in l(i8&quot;i.
He was a member of the bet din,
or court of justice, of Fez. and removed to Venice
about IfiOS. to print his voluminous manuscripts.
From Venice he went to Jerusidem, where he spent
the last years iif his life, .aioli published: 1 &quot; Leb
(

1&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>p6ns5ikq8lwmr66m6j7na40ymlk3l3e</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Jewish Encyclopedia Volume 1.pdf/705</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3037242</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133254</id>
      <parentid>14033621</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:26:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lieir →  heir,  tlic →  the (2), islied → ished</comment>
      <origin>15133254</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8649" sha1="rnz232yu6kab769u4qsq8ugqlictu3w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|649|THE JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA|649}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;—
;

He aoousi'S them of tribal
cosnio|iolitanisni
lie culls them
intruder!! and jmrasitcs, and an unassociablc race.
He looks upon commerce as the only motive of their
activity, and .'iays &lt;if Disraeli &quot;A Jewish statesman
authors on

the

subject.

and

cxclusivciicss

;

:

got up jin^'oisni mueli as lie would f;et up a speculative maniu for a commercial purpose&quot; (Goldwin
Smith. &quot;The United Kin.irdom.&quot; i. 4(i. lOH. I:JT. IW,
New York. 1H99; &quot;The Jewish (Jueslion&quot; in &quot; Nineteenth Century.&quot; 1881, pp. 10, 4U4-.&quot;&gt;1.&quot;); &quot;Can Jews
be Patriots? &quot;Vi. i.v. ST.'j-WS:).
It can not. however, be denied by any fair-minded
person thai some of the anti Semitic charires are monstrously absurd, as when Ahlwardt .slid that Saiii
lillsrath l.ewin
who happened to lie iiiai' the place

—

where Emperor William was shot by Noliiiinir
had been advised by the Alliance Israelite I'niversclleof the attempt to assjissinatc the emperor; orlhe
story that Creniieu.x had olTered a jiri/.e of one million francs for the em|ieror's head.
Dn the one hanil
the accusation was spri-ad thai the tinu of I.udwij;
Lijwe had furnished bad iruiis. because the Alliance
wished to see Germany defeati'd on the other hand.
Captain Dnyfus was accused of havPettiness inir lietrayed army secrets to Gerof Charges many, because the Jews desired that
by Anti- country to be victorious. A German
author has even accuse&lt;l the Jews of
Semites,
;

liavinj; caused the stylistic carelessness of nifidern German writers (G. Wustnauuu
&quot; Allerhand .Sprachilummheiten.&quot; I,eipsic.I8!)l). Anti-Semitic pamphlets and journals have conslantly
published circulars purportiiifr In be issued by the
Alliance, which were forjreries, and they have fabricated a letter of the German ambassjidor to Pari.s
Count von Wimpfen. who conuiiitled suicide Deo.
24, 1882
in which he had (liarired IJaron Ilirsch
with bein.ir the cause of his misfortune; whereas,
uctually, the unfortunate man had asked the baron
as his best friend to take care of his family.
They
have untirintrly published an allej^ed address of an
En.irlish chief nibbi. Headclif. in which the Jews
were admonished to put Ihemselves in he possession
(if all the.money of Ihi' wurld. so that Goil's promises to Abnihani shouTil be fullilled.
The source of
this alle.ired address was a novel, &quot;Gacta, Dl'ippel,

—

I

Warsjiw,&quot; by Hermann Goedschc, who hail beendis
missed from the I'russiau postal service because of
foririiies that he had coiimiitled. and who wrote
So
undi r the pseudonym. &quot;.'Sir John Katclille.&quot;
whether rifrht or wroiii; the anti Semitic cause was
only too freiiuenlly advoealed by such methiids.
Ilnii.indRArnv

n

:

The (ienimn weekly Vitthrilinnini numlrm

Ahinhr

itt^ Aiitifi inilii*iiiiin, Herllli, slnt-e Isitl,
ziir
I.S
a reiH-rlnrv of the IllNtury i&gt;f Alltl-Si-inltlslll. 'riie tellenil
lileriinirt'on the Slll&gt;jll'( 1^ w&gt; lnlMlell^«• tllllt It Is llll)H&gt;ssll&gt;ti&gt; (o

Vi

Anti-Semitism
Antislavery

HIE JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA

649

ill

fflve more iliuii a list of the iiii&gt;sl iiroiiilneiit works : A hlMloirniiiliy up to 1S8.'» was (jiveii liy Jos4'|ih Jarolw, '/Vic Ji-irifth
(^iitfsfi'iii.

Uiniltin, IHH'i, siipiileiiieiiliil

by

I,

I^ih'Ii

In the lirv,

fir. Jiiiri-A for the satin* vear: (iliiiriui, thr tirtysni. unit
firlinilun^lKtti'biriiiiht in Itirlin^ 1S77; the sts-mul part iiiiiltT the title. Ihr Hi'trxiii- unit lirlhutiiiiiinxihiriiuli t in
Ihiilfihliiiiil. Derllii, IKTT: II. voii Tn-ILHilike, Kin Hurl
W. Marr. ;v r.s'((i/i(..s
III..)- Cii.-i;- Jm&lt;/(ii(;ih)ii. lli-rllii. Issii;

Jliitrnllinnn*

i)ln'rililji

F.. Iiniirlni:. hif .httU
|i.ii/r. ( arlsnilie anil

fin'nlilin nlhllni,

nf nt{ti-

iii-*

Itni'rn-.

l^lpslr. ISHl

:

K,il.

V^iUi i-ii,. Item. IK71I
SiHi n- nml t'nllnrHartinann. /inn

v.pii

Jiiili ntliiiin in linlininirt liii'l ZllA loi^f, 1.4'lpslr. Iss.'t: .il.
.st.«ket, /ki.s .Wo.;.riii ./ii&gt;/.ii(/ii/iii. li.Tlln. Issn; Clirli'ttiih-

Ismi; II. .Milwanlt. l&gt;*r Vi-rzirriltuntfahniniif
r Arijii-tii n Vi'ithirinitiliuijiiilrnlfinni. Merlin. Isim: Jnnjlintin, pan I.. Iln-sflrli, IrtC; .. Wiihniiiill&quot;!. /I'l* lirrtz
Jniliiihiiisihnll,
iliM yi'innili'illhnnin nml ilir Ihntiih
Sin-iiil. Ilerlln,
ill

ill

MelM&gt;niiaiiii von s^iniienlM-nr. Urilrilw znr
AntiMni. Itiiriunnu, |Ks.*i; A. Itohllla.'. I&gt;rr TnlMniistrr. bCI
Hr. .lustiis 'A. Ilriiiiniini. Jinlrn-

&lt;'iirlsnilie. ISHT

lit.*i-h.iUr
iiiinlinili,

;

;

PailiTl'ini. IK-CI; Kil. Ilrutiioiil. 7,&lt;i h'innrr Jiiivr.
Paris, isml; /,.i /* rinVir Unliiilli; l-nrls. ISNI; /,. 7'&lt;»(&lt;iiii&lt;ii&gt;
tl'ioi .liifiWiiii/i-. I*iirls. I.'flil : r. Coiisiaiit. I.ii Jnifmli ritnt
TKiyl'M •' VlliMiiiii. I'arl.s, IsiC ; sir ItUiuinl F. lliiniui, 77ii:

s/iii|j)l.

M

Jiv. the (iipm. anil
14am. fhliaRo and New York. IMS.
of the ajKilopetlc literature may he noteii
AntiAfmiten'
:

I)fr AntinrniiliKnitttt iin Lti-litc itfn ChriKtnithutni*.
ihs lin'hts unit iti:r Mural, Danzlff. Issr.i (Kntr. trans, by
r^itifijit.

MiN. llelliiiann); A. I-ernv-Keaiilleii. Isnid I'hiz trjt yaliiiuti.
IslH; Th. .Moiiiiiisin. Anili Kin Wurl llhir fnsrr
I'arl.s,
Juilinllinm. Berlin, issd; Fr. IiHlliz.s&lt;h, Srliinlmiatt ilni
litnltliiinirn itnlilinti
I'lintvr

nml Jnstn.^^,

VAntitUinitisnn Paris.

m'lfncnvcM
tenholz.

Ar

Anti:&quot;

n

niili

Krlaniren. lHs;i;

ISiHi;

ij.

ijizare,

x. Chinerklne. Li&gt;* Toii-

in

lin.inif, Paris. Is^C: SehratIhimmrr. Isiti; furthiT lllirature

lie VAnti&lt;i'iiiili.-iiii

In the* Thfiilitittjicliir Jitlinj*hcrii^ht.
nually by Si'hwetsrbke In BruDsnlvk.

whleh

b

published an-

D.

ANTI-SHABBETHIANS.

See

SnAnnETn.u

Zir.i

ANTISLAVERY MOVEMENT IN AMER-

ICA
has

:

Tile instil utinii

lieeii

neirro .--hiM ry in .iiierica
sujrgestion of a pilhir of
l,as Ca.sas. who ]iropiised it as a substii.|

traced back to

the Chureh,

Ilie

tute for the enslavement of the American Indians,
since the latter were lieinir ra|iidly exterminated by
.Spanish oppression.
E.xpericnce showed that the
negroes were better able to endure the hardships of
slavery.
Given the institution, it is not hard to account for the fact that so receptive and assimilative
a peo|)le as the Jews should have adopted it from

the people

amons whom

Maranos. who.settled

Ihey were

livinir.

New World

in the

Thus

the

soon after

discovery, held slaves, and numerous references
are made to Jewish slaveholders in
Jewisli Brazil, Jlexico, the West Indies. New

its

Y'ork, and New England, lonir liefore
and down to the American Hevolution.
There are several early references even to American-Jewish slave-dealers.
The
&lt;;rowth of democnicy and chanjreil econoinic condi-

Slaveholders.

tions had

irradually ]iut an end to slavery in the
North soon after the heirinnin^' of the nineteenth
century but in the South slavery remained common,
anions Jews as well as amonjr others. Shortly before the Civil War there were amonfr the a.cgrcssive
Southern sympathizers some .Tews who used, as conclusive proof that it was not wronir to keep slaves,
;

noble iihilanthropists like Judall
The whole arirnment,
in reality, rested on ti false assumption rifrardinj;
Touro's altitude toward the inslilulion. lie evinced
his antislavery views in no uncertain manner; for the
iKLMdes who waited upon him in the house of the
Shipards with whom he lived for forty years were
all emancipated by his aid and supplied with the
means of establish! nir themselves; ancl the only slave
he |iersonally possissed he trained to business, then
emancipated, furnishing him with money and valuathealle&quot;;e(l fact that

Totiro sanctioned slavery

—

—

ble advice.
.Vs a IkhIv. the .lews in America took no action
either for or against the slavery (|Ueslion. though

individual

Antislavery
Jews.

Jews were numbcK-d among

meniliers of

American abolition societies in the
early forties, and the .merican and
Foreiirti

.
li

Slaverv Siwiety

in

its

some .lews
in the Soul hern states &quot;have refii.sed
111 have any right
of properly in man. or even to
have any slaves about them. &quot;and thai the cruel |)erreport, in

|s.&quot;i;t.

noieil

that

secutions lliev themselves had been subjected lo
tended lo make thiMii friends of universid freedom.
Hut suih tendencies were at least partially checked
by he fact thai the Oriental cusloms nml antecedents of the Jew (lid not incline to make him per so
an enemy of slaverv. Ilial certain |irr&lt;-epls in the
Mainionidean cihIc of laws were specilicnlly antagonistic to Ihe emancipation of non Jewish slaves,
and that pecuniary and pulitind considerations frriHieiitly dictated an altitU(U' friendly toward slavery
uniong Jewish citizens, .ppcals lo religion and
I&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A history of booksellers, the old and the new.djvu/194</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3041068</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133762</id>
      <parentid>9882116</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:33:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133762</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1743" sha1="04zh26zd75dj869n330w0mfuu4p3cbj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|160|''JOHN MURRAY.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;1762, we find from the Navy List, that John McMurray joins his frigate full, probably, of hopeful anticipations of the promotion that sometimes came so speedily in the days of the old French wars. The Peace of Paris, however, was signed in the following year, and, spite of patronage and merit, McMurray was, in 1768, still a second lieutenant, and, in point of seniority, thirty-fourth on the list. Disgusted with a profession from which he could hope so little, and eager for a more useful career in life, in this same year he embraced an opportunity that seemed to give him a chance of exchanging the lounging idleness of Chatham barracks for the busy activity of London business, in a trade very congenial to his tastes, and not unaccompanied with hopes of solid emolument.

Among the friends he had made either afloat or at his Chatham quarters was [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|William Falconer]], who, a sailor boy &quot;before the mast,&quot; had in the very year of McMurray's first entry into the service, published the beautiful poem of the &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]].&quot; This poem attracted great attention, and the author was promoted to the more honourable than lucrative position of midshipman. Fellow-townsmen-and in those days blood was thicker than water-and in some degree fellow-students, for both were lovers of books, they became firm friends; and McMurray's first thought, when the offer of a bookseller's business was put before him, was to secure the aid of his literary friend in his new venture; and an interesting letter, still preserved, gives the history of his commencement as a bookseller. Addressed to &quot;Mr. William Falconer, at Dover,&quot; it runs as follows:—

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A History of Art in Ancient Egypt Vol 1.djvu/214</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3048891</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132712</id>
      <parentid>15028415</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:35:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Eloquent Peasant</username>
        <id>918786</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132712</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1814" sha1="2se27e0e4m1oendyr92zmocx3tuv8az" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;The Eloquent Peasant&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{larger|CHAPTER III.}}}}
{{c|{{sc|Sepulchral Architecture.}}}}
{{c|§ I.—''The Egyptian Belief, as to a Future Life and its Influence upon their Sepulchral Architecture.''}}

The most ancient monuments which have yet been discovered 
in Egypt are the tombs; they have therefore a right to the first 
place in our sketch of Egyptian architecture. 

In every country the forms and characteristics of the sepulchre are determined by the ideas of the natives as to the fate of their bodies and souls after life is over. In order to understand the Egyptian arrangements, we must begin then by inquiring into their notions upon death and its consequences; we must ask whether they believed in another life, and in what kind of life. We shall find a complete answer to our question in the collation of written texts with figured monuments. 

In the first period of his intellectual development, man is unable to comprehend any life but that which he experiences in his own person. He is as yet unable to observe, to analyse or to generalize. He does not perceive the characteristics which distinguish him from things about him, and he sees nothing in nature but a repetition of himself. He is therefore incapable of distinguishing between life such as he leads it and mere existence. He dreams of no other way of being than his own. As such is the tendency of his intellect, nothing could be more natural or more logical than the conception to which it leads him in presence of the problem offered to him every time that a corpse descends into the grave. M. Maspero has so thoroughly understood the originality of the solution adopted by the Egyptians that we cannot do better, in attempting to explain the hypothesis, at once gross and subtle, to which they had recourse for consolation, than borrow his rendering&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A History of Art in Ancient Egypt Vol 1.djvu/268</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3048945</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132700</id>
      <parentid>14869091</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:30:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Eloquent Peasant</username>
        <id>918786</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132700</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2651" sha1="g6zs2cia0nxnxnzyv1hct7rezkd7iyo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;The Eloquent Peasant&quot; /&gt;{{rh|178|{{sc|A History of Art in Ancient Egypt. }}|}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;friends and relations met together, and the conduit by which the Intervening wall was often pierced, allowed the smell of fruit and incense and the smoke of burnt fat to come to their nostrils.&lt;ref&gt;In a Theban tomb described by M. {{sc|Maspero}} (''Étude sur quelques Peintures funéraires'') the tenant, Harmhabi, is made to speak thus: &quot;I have come, I have received my bread; joining the embalmed offerings to my members, I have breathed the scent of the perfumes and incense.&quot; It is also possible that this conduit may have been intended to permit of the free circulation of the ''double'', to allow it to pass from its supporting statues to the chapel in which it is honoured. This curious idea, that the spirit of the dead can pass through a very small hole, but that it cannot dispense with an opening altogether, is found among many nations. The Iroquois contrived an opening of very small diameter in their tombs, through which the soul of the dead could pass and repass. See {{sc|Herbert Spencer}}, ''Principles of Sociology'', vol. i. p. 192.&lt;/ref&gt;

{{img float
 | file = A History of Art in Ancient Egypt Vol 1 (page 268 crop).jpg
 | cap ={{smaller|{{sc|Fig.}} 116.—Plan of a mastaba with four Serdabs. (Lepsius, i., pl, 24.) }}
 | align = left
 | alt =  Fig. 116.—Plan of a mastaba with four Serdabs. (Lepsius, i., pl, 24.) 
 | width = 150px
}}

&quot;No inscriptions have been found In a serdab except those upon the statues. And no objects other than statues have ever been found in a serdab.&quot; So that the function of the serdab was to afford a safe and final asylum to the statues. These were, no doubt, to be found in other situations also, because, not to mention the numerous bas-reliefs upon which the figure of the deceased appeared in the chamber or in the niche which sometimes took its place, he was sometimes portrayed in high relief, and of full life size, in the public hall of the tomb.&lt;ref&gt;There is an example of this in a mastaba at Gizeh (Fig. 120). See No. 95 of {{sc|Lepsius}} (''Denkmæler'', vol. i. p. 29; vol. iii. pl. 44).&lt;/ref&gt;

{{img float
 | file = A History of Art in Ancient Egypt Vol 1 (page 268b crop).jpg
 | cap ={{smaller|{{sc|Fig.}} 117.—Longitudinal section of the same mastaba.}}
 | align = center
 | alt =  Fig 117.—Longitudinal section of the same mastaba. 
 | width = 300px
}}

Sometimes, also, we find a statue in one of those front courts which, especially at the time of the fourth dynasty, seem to have been in great favour. But this court, as well as the chamber, was open to every chance passer by, and the statues&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A History of Art in Ancient Egypt Vol 2.djvu/325</title>
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      <text bytes="1828" sha1="dz1myjgsp58teafdxtrfjzc1pctj7y8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;The Principal Conventions in Egyptian Sculpture. 295 
are rendered with as much care and detail as if there were no veil 
between their beauty and the eye of the spectator (Fig. 247). 
An arbitrary combination of a similar character is employed by 
the Egyptian artist when he wishes to show a number of persons 
behind one another on a horizontal plane ; he places them vertically 
one above the other. The great battle pictures at Thebes are an 
instance of this (Fig. 13, Vol.1.). Enemies still fighting are mingled 
with dead and wounded into one confused heap in front of Pharaoh's 
car, and reach from top to bottom of the relief. The same con- 
vention is to be found in the ranks of prisoners, workmen, or 
Fig. 246. — Bas-relief from Sakkarah. Fifth dynasty. 
soldiers, marching over a flat surface ; they are arranged in a kind 
of echelon upon the field of the relief (Fig. 42).^ 
' For other conventional methods, of a similar though even more remarkable 
kind but of less frequent occurrence, see Wilkinson, Mariners and Customs, etc., 
vol. ii. p. 295. The same ruling idea is found in those groups in the funerary bas- 
reliefs, which show husband and wife together. The wife's arm, which is passed 
round the body of the husband, is absurdly long (Lepsius, Denkmceler, part 11, 
plates 13, 15, 91, 105, etc.; and our Figs. 164 and 165, Vol. I). This is because the 
sculptor wished to preserve the loving gesture in question without giving up the full 
view of both bodies to which his notions committed him. One could not be 
allowed to cover any part of the other, they could not even be brought too closely 
together. They were placed, therefore, at such a distance apart that the hand 
which appears round the husband's body is too far from th.e shoulder with which 
it is supposed to be connected.
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    <title>Page:A History of Art in Ancient Egypt Vol 2.djvu/326</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
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      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="1106" sha1="8agprchafftd1gntvreqsd7lzhzvrwm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;{{rh|296|A History of Art in Ancient Egypt.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Faulty though these conventions seem to us, they did not 
disturb the Egyptian spectator. He was famihar with them by 
long usage, and his intellect easily re-established the true relation 
between the various parts of objects so strangely distorted. Even 
as art matured and as, in some respects, the skill of the Egyptian 
sculptor increased, he never felt himself impelled to abandon these 
primitive methods of interpretation. 

{{FI|file=missing|width=100%|talign=center|caption={{Sc|Fig.}} 247.—The Queen waiting on Amenophis IV. : Tell-el-Amarna. From Prisse.
}}

Graphic conventions are like those belonging to written and spoken language; 
when once  established, even those which seem most absurd to the stranger  are rendered acceptable by habit, and the native does not even  suspect the existence of anomalies which bewilder the foreign  visitor. 

Speaking generally, we may say that there is no perspective in 
Egyptian paintings and reliefs. And yet we find sincere efforts 
to render things in a less arbitrary fashion in certain works dating&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A History of Art in Ancient Egypt Vol 2.djvu/335</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="2670" sha1="5lsr1ejlpq1aqigw19n8pw32xdjm71q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh||The Principal Conventions in Egyptian Sculpture.|305}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;edge, the sculptors of the New Empire succeeded in cutting 
hieroglyphs upon a certain number of works in the harder rocks. 
Perhaps, too, iron may by that time have come into more general 
use, and they may have learnt how to give it extra hardness by 
tempering. But when granite and kindred materials had to be 
cut, the work was commenced with point and hammer as above 
described. In the case of some of those very large figures which 
had been rather roughly blocked out in the first instance, the final 
polishing has not quite obliterated the hollows left by those rude 
instruments in the stone, especially where the journeyman has 
struck a little too hard. An instance of this may be seen on 
the red granite sphinx in the Louvre (Fig. 41, Vol. I.). 

M. Soldi is inclined to think that at one period at least the 
Egyptians used stone weapons rather than metal ones in their 
attacks upon the harder rocks. He tells us that he himself 
has succeeded in cutting granites of various hardness with a 
common flint from the neighbourhood of Paris. He has done the 
same with diorite, both by driving off small chips from it and by 
pulverizing its surface with the help of jasper. &quot;This method,&quot; 
he adds, &quot;is excessively long and tedious, and the jasper, though 
harder than the diorite, is greatly damaged in the process. But 
yet it proves that a statue may be produced in such fashion, by 
dint of a great consumption of time and patience.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Sc|Soldi}}, ''Les Arts Meconnus'', p. 492. (1 vol. 8vo, Leroux. 1881.) &lt;/ref&gt; We must 
also remember that the hardest rocks are easier to cut when they 
are first drawn from the quarry, than after they have been exposed 
for a time to the air. 

The colours in the bas-reliefs are too much conventionalized to 
be of any use in helping us to determine the material of which 
Egyptian implements were made. But the forms of all the tools 
of which we have been speaking are to be found there. A bas- 
relief in the tomb of Ti, in which the manufacture of sepulchral 
statues is shown, is the oldest monument which may be quoted in 
support of our remarks (Fig. 250). On the left two journeymen 
are roughly blocking out a statue. Each holds in his left hand&lt;ref&gt;It has escaped M. Perrot's notice that one is left-handed.—{{Sc|Ed.}}&lt;/ref&gt; a 
long and slender tool which cannot be other than a chisel; this he 
strikes with a hammer. Two more are at work polishing another 
statue, upon which the chisel has finished its work. It is impossible to say whether the egg-shaped tools which they use are of&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{smallrefs}}
{{rh|VOL. II.||R R|class=__leafsig}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A History of Art in Ancient Egypt Vol 2.djvu/367</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132051</id>
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      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="2608" sha1="9rx7yroh6d1rz3e07lo0kkt0zdeya6e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh||Technical Processes.|335}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;originally gilded. The hue in question is caused, we are told, by 
the mordant or other preparation upon which the gold was laid.&lt;ref&gt;{{Sc|Champollion}}, ''Lettres d' Ègypte et de Nubie'', p. 130. &lt;/ref&gt; 

In the Theban tombs the figures are first drawn and then painted 
upon a fine coat which has all the polish of stucco. It seems 
to consist of a very fine plaster and a transparent glue. It is 
still white where no tint has been laid upon it; here and there 
its shining surface is still undimmed.- When the pictures were 
executed upon wood or, as in the mummies, upon linen laid down 
upon a thin layer of plaster, a preparatory coat of white was 
always spread in the first instance. The tints became more 
brilliant over such a coat, the most opaque being in some degree 
transparent.&lt;ref&gt;''Description'', ''Ant.'' vol. iii. p. 44. &lt;/ref&gt;

The paintings are, as a rule, free from cracks. The colours 
seem to have been mixed with water and some flexible gum 
like tragacanth.&lt;ref&gt;{{sc|Mérimeé}}, ''Dissertation'', etc. Champollion uses the term ''gouache'', body colour, in speaking of these paintings, but as the characteristic of that process is that every tint is mixed with white, there is some inaccuracy in doing so. &lt;/ref&gt; M. Hector Leroux, who took impressions of 
many bas-reliefs during his visit to Egypt, is inclined to behave 
that the Egyptians sometimes mixed honey with their colours, 
as the makers of water-colours do now. In some of the tombs 
the painting became sticky when he laid his moistened paper upon 
their surfaces. In others no amount of wetting affected the 
surface of the colours, which remained as smooth and hard as 
enamel. Some Egyptian paintings are covered with a resinous 
varnish which has blackened with time and spoilt the colours 
upon which it is laid.&lt;ref&gt;{{Sc|Prisse}}, Histoire de l' Art Égyptien'', text, p. 391.&lt;/ref&gt; The same varnish was used for the 
mummy cases and gives them the dark hue which they now 
present. A few exceptionally well preserved examples permit 
us to suppose that their colours when fresh must have been much 
lighter in tone and more brilliant than they now appear. No 
such precaution was taken, as a rule, in the case of the frescos. 
Their surfaces were left free from a substance that could so greatlv 
alter with time, and thanks partly to this, partly to the equality 
of temperature and to the dryness and tranquillity of the air, 
they have retained an incomparable freshness. The centuries 
*r3 {{sc|Mérimeé}}, ''Dissertation sur l' Emploi des Coideurs, p. 130.&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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the mordant or other preparation upon which the gold was laid.&lt;ref&gt;{{Sc|Champollion}}, ''Lettres d' Ègypte et de Nubie'', p. 130. &lt;/ref&gt; 

In the Theban tombs the figures are first drawn and then painted 
upon a fine coat which has all the polish of stucco. It seems 
to consist of a very fine plaster and a transparent glue. It is 
still white where no tint has been laid upon it; here and there 
its shining surface is still undimmed.&lt;ref&gt;''Description'', ''Ant.'' vol. iii. p. 44. &lt;/ref&gt; When the pictures were 
executed upon wood or, as in the mummies, upon linen laid down 
upon a thin layer of plaster, a preparatory coat of white was 
always spread in the first instance. The tints became more 
brilliant over such a coat, the most opaque being in some degree 
transparent.&lt;ref&gt;{{sc|Mérimeé}}, ''Dissertation sur l' Emploi des Coideurs, p. 130.&lt;/ref&gt;

The paintings are, as a rule, free from cracks. The colours 
seem to have been mixed with water and some flexible gum 
like tragacanth.&lt;ref&gt;{{sc|Mérimeé}}, ''Dissertation'', etc. Champollion uses the term ''gouache'', body colour, in speaking of these paintings, but as the characteristic of that process is that every tint is mixed with white, there is some inaccuracy in doing so. &lt;/ref&gt; M. Hector Leroux, who took impressions of 
many bas-reliefs during his visit to Egypt, is inclined to behave 
that the Egyptians sometimes mixed honey with their colours, 
as the makers of water-colours do now. In some of the tombs 
the painting became sticky when he laid his moistened paper upon 
their surfaces. In others no amount of wetting affected the 
surface of the colours, which remained as smooth and hard as 
enamel. Some Egyptian paintings are covered with a resinous 
varnish which has blackened with time and spoilt the colours 
upon which it is laid.&lt;ref&gt;{{Sc|Prisse}}, Histoire de l' Art Égyptien'', text, p. 391.&lt;/ref&gt; The same varnish was used for the 
mummy cases and gives them the dark hue which they now 
present. A few exceptionally well preserved examples permit 
us to suppose that their colours when fresh must have been much 
lighter in tone and more brilliant than they now appear. No 
such precaution was taken, as a rule, in the case of the frescos. 
Their surfaces were left free from a substance that could so greatlv 
alter with time, and thanks partly to this, partly to the equality 
of temperature and to the dryness and tranquillity of the air, 
they have retained an incomparable freshness. The centuries&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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the mordant or other preparation upon which the gold was laid.&lt;ref&gt;{{Sc|Champollion}}, ''Lettres d' Ègypte et de Nubie'', p. 130. &lt;/ref&gt; 

In the Theban tombs the figures are first drawn and then painted 
upon a fine coat which has all the polish of stucco. It seems 
to consist of a very fine plaster and a transparent glue. It is 
still white where no tint has been laid upon it; here and there 
its shining surface is still undimmed.&lt;ref&gt;''Description'', ''Ant.'' vol. iii. p. 44. &lt;/ref&gt; When the pictures were 
executed upon wood or, as in the mummies, upon linen laid down 
upon a thin layer of plaster, a preparatory coat of white was 
always spread in the first instance. The tints became more 
brilliant over such a coat, the most opaque being in some degree 
transparent.&lt;ref&gt;{{sc|Mérimeé}}, ''Dissertation sur l' Emploi des Coideurs'', p. 130.&lt;/ref&gt;

The paintings are, as a rule, free from cracks. The colours 
seem to have been mixed with water and some flexible gum 
like tragacanth.&lt;ref&gt;{{sc|Mérimeé}}, ''Dissertation'', etc. Champollion uses the term ''gouache'', body colour, in speaking of these paintings, but as the characteristic of that process is that every tint is mixed with white, there is some inaccuracy in doing so. &lt;/ref&gt; M. Hector Leroux, who took impressions of 
many bas-reliefs during his visit to Egypt, is inclined to behave 
that the Egyptians sometimes mixed honey with their colours, 
as the makers of water-colours do now. In some of the tombs 
the painting became sticky when he laid his moistened paper upon 
their surfaces. In others no amount of wetting affected the 
surface of the colours, which remained as smooth and hard as 
enamel. Some Egyptian paintings are covered with a resinous 
varnish which has blackened with time and spoilt the colours 
upon which it is laid.&lt;ref&gt;{{Sc|Prisse}}, Histoire de l' Art Égyptien'', text, p. 391.&lt;/ref&gt; The same varnish was used for the 
mummy cases and gives them the dark hue which they now 
present. A few exceptionally well preserved examples permit 
us to suppose that their colours when fresh must have been much 
lighter in tone and more brilliant than they now appear. No 
such precaution was taken, as a rule, in the case of the frescos. 
Their surfaces were left free from a substance that could so greatlv 
alter with time, and thanks partly to this, partly to the equality 
of temperature and to the dryness and tranquillity of the air, 
they have retained an incomparable freshness. The centuries&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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the mordant or other preparation upon which the gold was laid.&lt;ref&gt;{{Sc|Champollion}}, ''Lettres d' Ègypte et de Nubie'', p. 130. &lt;/ref&gt; 

In the Theban tombs the figures are first drawn and then painted 
upon a fine coat which has all the polish of stucco. It seems 
to consist of a very fine plaster and a transparent glue. It is 
still white where no tint has been laid upon it; here and there 
its shining surface is still undimmed.&lt;ref&gt;''Description'', ''Ant.'' vol. iii. p. 44. &lt;/ref&gt; When the pictures were 
executed upon wood or, as in the mummies, upon linen laid down 
upon a thin layer of plaster, a preparatory coat of white was 
always spread in the first instance. The tints became more 
brilliant over such a coat, the most opaque being in some degree 
transparent.&lt;ref&gt;{{sc|Mérimeé}}, ''Dissertation sur l' Emploi des Coideurs'', p. 130.&lt;/ref&gt;

The paintings are, as a rule, free from cracks. The colours 
seem to have been mixed with water and some flexible gum 
like tragacanth.&lt;ref&gt;{{sc|Mérimeé}}, ''Dissertation'', etc. Champollion uses the term ''gouache'', body colour, in speaking of these paintings, but as the characteristic of that process is that every tint is mixed with white, there is some inaccuracy in doing so. &lt;/ref&gt; M. Hector Leroux, who took impressions of 
many bas-reliefs during his visit to Egypt, is inclined to behave 
that the Egyptians sometimes mixed honey with their colours, 
as the makers of water-colours do now. In some of the tombs 
the painting became sticky when he laid his moistened paper upon 
their surfaces. In others no amount of wetting affected the 
surface of the colours, which remained as smooth and hard as 
enamel. Some Egyptian paintings are covered with a resinous 
varnish which has blackened with time and spoilt the colours 
upon which it is laid.&lt;ref&gt;{{Sc|Prisse}}, ''Histoire de l' Art Égyptien'', text, p. 391.&lt;/ref&gt; The same varnish was used for the 
mummy cases and gives them the dark hue which they now 
present. A few exceptionally well preserved examples permit 
us to suppose that their colours when fresh must have been much 
lighter in tone and more brilliant than they now appear. No 
such precaution was taken, as a rule, in the case of the frescos. 
Their surfaces were left free from a substance that could so greatlv 
alter with time, and thanks partly to this, partly to the equality 
of temperature and to the dryness and tranquillity of the air, 
they have retained an incomparable freshness. The centuries&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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''Note.'' The ''eng'' initial is placed at the head of this table. It denotes the absence of any initial consonant, and therefore gives the simplest form of all the finals through each tone. Hence all words spoken without and initial consonant, are classed under this initial.

{|class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin:auto;&quot;
|-
! Eng !! 鷹 !! 上平 !! 上上 !! 上去 !! 上入
|-
| Hua ||春||ǔng||ūng||óng||ók
|-
| Hiong || 香 || iǒng || iōng || ióng || iók
|-
| Chiu || 秋 || iŭ || iū || éu || éuh
|-
|  ||  ||  || || ||
|-
|  ||  ||  || || ||
|-
|  ||  ||  || || ||
|-
|  ||  ||  || || ||
|-
|  ||  ||  || || ||
|-
|  ||  ||  || || ||
|-
|  ||  ||  || || ||
|-
|  ||  ||  || || ||
|-
|  ||  ||  || || ||
|-
|  ||  ||  || || ||
|-
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    <title>Page:The Peerage, Baronetage and Knightage of the British Empire Part 2.djvu/120</title>
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BUCHANAN. 
BUCHANAN, Eight Hon. Sir Andeew, 
P.C., G.C.B. &quot;of Craigend Castle, co. Stir- 
ling,&quot; created a Baeoxet U Dec. 1878, c.b. 
1857, K.c.B. 18G0, G.C.B. 1866, diplomatic service 
182.5/78, charge d'affaires St. Peter.sburg 1844/ol. 
minister at Berne 18.52, envoy Denmark 1853, Spain 
1858, Netherlands 1860, ambassador Berlin 1862. 
St. Petersburg 1864, Vienna 1871/7; b. 7 May, 1807; 
m. 1st — 4 April, 1839, Frances Katharine, dau. of 
&quot;Very Rev. Edward Mellish, of Rushall Hall, co. 
Staff, dean of Hereford ; she d. 4 Dec. 1854. He 
m. 2ndly — 27 May, 1857, Hon. Georgiana Eliza 
Stuart, 3rd dau. of Robert Walter, 11th Lord Blan- 
tyre. By his 1st wdfe he has had 5 sons and 4 
dau.s. 
(1) James, com. R.X. (retd.); b. 7 Aug. 1840; m. 19 Feb. 1873, 
Arabella Catherine, youngest dau. of Goodwin Charles Colquit- 
Craven, of Brockhampton Park, co. Glouc. (E. Craa'EX). 
(2) Edward, b. 4 June, 1844; d. unni. 2y June, 1870. 
(3) Eric Alexander, b. 19 Aug. 1848. 
(4) Andrew Archibald, b. 16 Jan. 1850. 
(5) George William, 2ud sec. diplomatic service ; b. 25 Nov. 
1854. 
(6) Florence Jane, m. 8 May, 1865, to Maxwell Fox, of Annagh- 
more. King's co. J.r. 1&gt;.L. com. R.N. (retd.), s. p. 
(7) Frances Matilda, m. 'J Dec. 187.S, to John WilUs Clark, 
M.A. late fellow Trin. Coll. Camb. and has 2 sons, 
Edward MelUsh CLARK, b. 25 Sept. 1874.— William Henry, b. 
1 Jan. 1876. 
(8) Louisa, m. 23 Aug. 1871, to Sir George Francis Bonham, 
Bart. 
(9) Janet Sinclair. 
Arms — Or, a lion rampant aa. between two otters' heads erased 
in chief ppr. and a cinquefoil in base of the second all within 
the royal tressure of the last. 
CRKST— An armed dexter hand holiUng a cap of dignity 
purpura turned up ermine. 
SUPPORTElls (G.c.R.) — Dexter, a falcon wings elevated and 
addorsed ppr. belled and lieaked or. Sinister, a gryphon sa. 
cacli charged on the breast with two branches of laurel con- 
joined or. 
Motto — Nunquam victus. 
Towx House— 19, Manchester Square, W. 
Uincagf. 
f&quot;~t EOUGE BUCHANAN, of Glasgow, merchant, had 4 sons 
X and a dau. 
[1] George, a merchant, who (with his brothers) were the 
original jiromoters of the Buchanan Societj-, founded 1725, for 
the support of the poor of the clan; male line said to be ex- 
tinct. On 22 Aug. 1870, at Trinity, N.F.L.U. Arthur Buchanan, 
i;»q. grandson ot late George Buchanan, of Hcathfield and 
Wilton in Jamaica, and representative of Bailie George 
Buchanan, of Glasgow, founder of the Buchanan Society, aged 
36. Ob. col. Times, 3 Nov. 1870. 
[2] Andrew, of Drumpellier and Mount Vernon, co. Lanark, 
grandfather of 
DavidCarrick-Buchaxan, whotook the additional sur- 
name of Carrick, and d. 20 May, 1827, having m. 29 May, 
1788, Elizabeth, dau. of Kobert Gilliam, of Moimt Alta, Vir- 
cinia, U.S.A. and had 3 sons and 2 daus. 
(1) Kobert, of Drumpellier; b. 31 Oct. 1797; d. 7 Feb. 1841, 
having m. 16 July, 1824, Sarah Maria Clotilde, eldest dau. of 
Sir Joseph Wallis Hoare, Bart.; she d. 6 April, 1881, having 
(re-m. to late Charles, son of Admiral Raper, of Ilmer, Bucks.) 
had 3 sons, 
/I/ David Carrick Eoljert Carrick-Buclianan, of Dnini- 
pellier, &amp;c. c.b. J.p. i».i.. Lanark and Kenfrew, lieut.-col. 
com. 2nd royal Lanark mil. 2nd dragoons 1845/9; b. 16 .'^pt. 
1825; m. 22&quot;Mar. 1849, Frances Jane, elder dau. and coheir 
of Anthony Lefrov, of Carrickglass, co. Longford, LL.n. 
(M.P. Dublin University 1858 70, co. Longford 1830/7), s. p. 
/2/ Wallis O'Brjen Hastings, 92nd highlanders; b. 17 Kov. 
1H26; d. s. p. 18&quot;Mar. 1855, having m. , Anna, 
dau. of Albany Savile, Esq. of Oakhampton Park, Devon. 
/3/ George, capt. Scots greys; d. uuni. Nov. 1863. 
(2) Andrew, of Greenfield, co. Lanark, J.P. u.l,.; b. 28 Nov. 
1799; d. 12 Aug. 1879, having m. 27 Mar. 1826, Bethia Hamil- 
ton, dau. of William Ramsay, Esq. of Gogar, and had with 
other issue 2 sons and 3 daus. 
/I/ Da-id William Ramsay BUCHANAN, of Ringwood, De- 
vonshire, late capt. royal Lanark mil. and formerly secre- 
tary of commissions in court of chancery; b. 9 Mar. 1834; 
m. 3 Dec. 1863, Lady Katheriue Alicia Hely-Hutchinson, 
eldest dau. of John, 3rd Earl of Donoughmore, K.P. and 
has 2 sons and 2 daus. 
Arthur Louis Hamilton, b. 27 July, 1866. — Nigel Francis 
William, b. 5 Mar. 1870.— Kathleen Mary.— Bethia Char- 
lotte. 
/2/ Hamilton R , b. ; m. 8 Mar. 1869, 
Isaliella, dau. of late Robert BeU, of Stowe, Gladstone, 
Queensland. 
/a/ Bethia Hamilton, m. 26 April, 1853, to Sir John Don- 
Wauchope, Bart. 
/4/ Sarah Maria Clotilile, m. 24 Mar. 1870. as 2nd wife, 
to Thomas Dunlop Fiudlay, Esq. of Easterhill. 
/5/ Mary, m. to Andrew, brother of Colin, Lord 
Blackburn. 
(3) Marian, m. 1 June, 1818, to John Hay, R.X. of Morton, 
CO. Fife. 
(4) Elizabeth, m. to Robert Graham, M.D. pro- 
fessor of botany, Edinburgh. 
[3] Archibald, of Auchintorlie, co. Dumb, by purchase from 
liis brother Andrew, and of Hillington, Renfrew, on the 
death of his brother Niel ; m. Martha, dau. of Peter Murdoch, 
of Rosehill, Renfrew, lord provost of Glasgow, and had with a 
dau. 3 sons, of whom the youngest, 
Andrew, of Ardinconnal, of whom presently. 
[4] Niel, of Hillington, co. Renfrew, M.P. Glasgow burghs 
1741,4 (male line extinct). 
[5] Marv, m. to George Buchanan, of Auchintoshan, co. Dumb. 
ANDilEW BUCHANAN, of Ardinconnal, co. Dumb, and 
of Auchingray, co. Lanark, J.P. D.l..; b. 1 July, 1745; 
d. 14 JiUy, 1833, having m. 3 July, 1769, Jean, eldest dau. of 
.James Deunistoun, of Dennistoun and Colgraiu ; she d. 15 
Sept. 1832, having had 2 sons and 2 daus. 
(1) Archibald, of Auchintorlie, co. Dumb. J.P. D.L. and of 
Hillington, co. Renfrew, J.P. commanded a troop of yeo. cav. 
during the French revolutionary war; b. 13 April, 1773 ; d. 16 
Dec. 1832, having m. 3 June, 1816, Mary, 2nd ilau. of Richard 
Dennistoun, of Kelvin Grove, co. Lanark ; she d. 30 June, 1868, 
having had with other issue 2 sons and 5 daus. 
[1] Andrew, of Auchintorlie, J.P. D.L.; b. 14 Mar. 1817; m. 20 
Nov. 1845, Mary Jemima Duiidas Adamina, youngest dau. of 
Sir James Fergusson, Bart, of Kilkerran, co. Ayr, s. p. 
[2] Richard, capt. late 72nd highlanders; b. 22 Sept. 1830; 
unm. 
[3] Christina Alston, d. s. p. 10 Jan. 1849, having m. to 
Robert Meiklam, who d. 7 July, 1847. 
[4] .Jane Dennistoun, living unm. 
[5] Mary Dennistoun; b. 26 Jan. 1821; d. unm. 22 Nov. 1870. 
[6] Isabella Dennistoun, living unm. 
[7] Georgina Grace, d. 4 Jan. 1862, having m. 28 July, 1867, 
as 2nd wife, to George Hamiand Fergusson, Esq. (B.^RT.), 
who d. 27 April, 1870. 
(2) James, of Blairvadoch, Ardinconnal, aforesaid, and some- 
time of Craigend Castle, co. Stirhng, J.P. cos. Dumbarton, 
Lanark, and J.P. n.I,. Caithness; b. 26 Jan. 1776; d. 21 Dec. 
1860, having m. 10 Mav, 1805, Laily Janet Sinclair, eldest dau. 
of James, 12th Earl of Caithness; she d. 24 Feb. 1867, having 
had a son and 5 daus. 
[1] Sir Andrew, created a Baronet. 
[2] Helen John Sinclair, m. 6 May, 1828, to William Wootton 
Abnoy, of Mea.shaiu Hall.co. Derby; he d. s. p.s. 22 July, 1866. 
[3] Jane Dennistoun, d. 28 Nov. 1877, having m. 16 Mar. 
1826, to William Tritton, of Wrington, Somerset; he d. 19 
June 1851, having had a son and dau. 
/I/ George .Sinclair Tritton, b. 23 June, 1828. 
/2/ Margaret, m. 21 Feb. 1856, to Alexander James Dennis- 
ttnm-Brown, of Balloch Castle, Dumbartonsh. N.B. J.P. D.L. 
and has 4 daus. 
Isabella Noble Denni.stoun-Brown.— Louisa Howard. 
—Georgina Meta. — Jane Lillias Aune.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Peerage, Baronetage and Knightage of the British Empire Part 2.djvu/320</title>
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      <text bytes="8146" sha1="4f4ummkw7fguas1n8ymnlf8n60kgiv1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;284 
HALKETT. 
1797; d. 22 May, 1868, having m. 31 July, 1824, Uis coiisin Bar- 
bara, dau. of Right Hon. Sir John Taughan, justice of court of 
common pleas; she d. 24 June, 1869, having had 2 sons and a dau. 
(1) Sir Henry St. John, 3rd and present Baronet. 
(2) Jolin Frederick, vicar of Wistow and Kilby 1867; b. 16 
:May, 1830; m. 25 Nov. 1856, Ismena, 3rd dau. of J S 
Andrewes, Esq. 
(3) Elizabeth Barbara, m. 1 Sept. 1846, to her cousin Albert 
Pell, of Willburton, Camb. si.p. S. Leicester since 1868, son 
of late Sir Albert Pell, d.C.l. 
[2] Louisa, d. 30 Sept. 1865, having m. 18 Oct. 1819, to 
Frederick, eldest son of Hon. John Coventry (E. Coventry); 
he d. 10 Aug. 1859. 
HALKETT, Sir Peter Arthur, of Pitfen-ane, 
CO. Fife, D.L. (1697, x.s.), late capt. 3rd light 
dragoons, served throughout the Crimean War, 
lieut.-col. com. Fife art. mil., late capt. Fife mounted 
E.V.; s. his father as 8th Baronet in 1847; b. 1 May. 
1834; m. 6 May, 18.56, Eliza Anna, dau. of late 
Capt. Richard Kirwan Hill, 52nd regt. (Bart.), 
and has had a son and 5 daus. 
(1) Wedderbium Conwav, lieut. 79th highlanders, late Fife 
art. mil.; b. 1 Feb. 1857&quot;; m. 31 Aug. 1881, Jessie Elizabeth, 
eldest dau. of Col. Lempriere, K.E. 
(2) Adelaide Frances. (3) Helen llargaret 
(4) Katherine Margaret, d. 22 July, 1867. 
(5) MadeUne. (6) Mabel. 
Abms — Sa. three piles conjoined in base arg. on a chief of the 
Becond a lion passant guardant gu. 
Ckest— A falcon's head erased ppr. Over it, &quot; Fides sufficit.&quot; 
SUPPORTERS— Two falcons ppr. beUed and jessed or. 
Seat— Pitfirrane, Dunfermline. 
fLinrage. 
Sir PETER ■VEDDERBURN, of Gosford, co. Haddington, 
which he acquired from Sir Alexander Auchmutv, Knt. 
of Gosford, 3 Jan. 1658, 9 (brother of Sir Alexander, of &quot;Black- 
ness, CO. Forfar, sons of James Wedderbiu-n, of Blackness, co. 
Forfar, and of Dundee, merchant, youngest son of Alexander 
Wedderbum, of Kingennie. co. Forfar, see that title), knighted 
by King Charles II. shortly after the Restoration, sole clerk 
of privy council, Scotland, keeper of the signet for life, with 
power to apix)int his own deputy or deputies, 28 Aug. 1660, 
and was a lord of session 17 June, 1668; d. 11 Xov. 1679, having 
m. Agnes, dau. of John Dickson, of Hartree, a judge of the 
court of session, and had 3 sons, 
/I/ John, of Gosford, p.c. before he was 20 years of age, 
engaged to furnish the King of Denmark mth a regiment of 
his own countrj-nien, consisting of twelve companies of 100 men 
each, &amp;c.; shipwTecked off Calais 26 May, 1688; bur. at 
Aberlody. 
/2/ Sir Peter, created a Baronet 30 Dec. 1697. 
/3/ Alexander, a commissioner of excise for Scotland ; m. 
Mary, dau. of John Daes, of Coldingknows, co. Berwick, 
advocate, and had, with 2 daas. an only son, 
Peter, of Cliester Hall. Haddington, lord of session as Lord ^^ 
C'hesterhall 1755 ; d. 11 Aug. 1756, haWng m. Janet, dau. of 
David Ogilvy, capt. of dragoons. She d. June, 1771, having 
had 2 sons and a dau. 
(1) Alexander, p.c. sergeant-at-law and solicitor-gen. 1771, 
attorney-gen. 1778, lord chief justice common pleas 1780, M.P. 
Rothesay and Inverary, elected for Castle Rising, Norfolk, 
and Oakhampton, Devon, in 1774, and chose the latter, M.P. 
Bishops Castle, Salop. 1778, created BAROX Loughborough, 
of Loughborough, co. Leic. 14 June, 1780, first commissioner 
for keeping the gi-eat seal 1783, lord high chancellor of Great 
Britain 1793 180i, created by 2nd patent 31 Oct. 1795, BAROS 
Loughborough, of Loughborough, Surrey, and 21 April, 
1801. Earl of Rosslyn. co. Midlothian, both creations in 
default of male issue, with remainder severally and suc- 
cessively, to his nephews Sir James St. Clair Erskine, Bart, 
and John Erskine. He b. 13 Feb. 1733 ; d. s. p. 3 Jan. 1805, 
having m. 1st— 31 Dec. 1767. Betty Ann, dau. of John Dawson, 
of Morley, Yorks. ; she d. 15 Feb. 1781, s. p. He m. 2ndly— 
12 Sept. 1782, Charlotte, dau. of William, 1st Viscount 
Courtenay (E. Devox). 
(2) David, brigadier-gen. E.I.C.S. killed at the retaking of 
Barrock, in India, 1773. 
(3) Janet, d. June, 1767, having m. 1761, to Lieui.-G€n. Sir 
Henry Erskine, of Alva, 5th Baronet, M.P. He (i. 9 Aug. 1765, 
leaving issue. (E. ROSSLYN.) 
SIR PETER At:ddeRBURX, of Gosford, capt. of grena- 
diers, was a member of the parliaments of Scotland from 
theTRevolution till the Union 1705; 8, was created a BAROXET 
OF Nova Scotia 30 Dec 1697,&quot;heredibus masculis de ejus cor- 
pore.&quot; He m. Dame Jane Halket, heiress of Pitferrane, the 
eldest dau. of Sir Charles Halket, Bart, of Pitfenane (ext.), 
and agreeable to the entail of that barony assumed the name 
of HALKETT, and d. 20 Mar. 1746, aged 86, having had with 
other issue 2 sons, 
[1] Sir Peter, 2nd Baronet. M.P. Stirling burghs 1734/41, col. in 
the aniiy ; killed near the river Monongahela by the Indians 9 
July, 1755, having m. Lady Emilia Stuart, dau. of Francis, Earl 
of Moray; slie d. 18 May. 1781, having had with other issue 
a son, — Sir Peter, 3rd Baronet, d. unm. 1792. 
[2] Charles, of Gosford, d. 1755, having m. his cousin Mary, 
dau. of Sir Henry Wardlaw, Bart, (ext.), of Pitreavie, by Eliza- 
beth, 2nd dau. of Sir Charles Halkett, of Pitferrane aforesaid, 
and had with other issue a son, z. 
SIR JOHN WEDDERBURN, of Gosford, 4tll Baronet (on the 
death of his 1st cousin. Sir Peter Halkett, in 1792). and 
assimied the surname of Halkett, and became Sir John Halkett, 
of Pitferrane, capt. in the armv at the taking of the island of 
Guadaloxipe 1758 ; b. 6 Aug. l&quot;720; d. 7 Aug. 1793, having m. 
1st— Feb. 1758, EUzabeth, dau. of Andrew Fletcher, of Saltoun, 
Lord Milton of Session 1724, keeper of His Majesty's signet in 
Scotland ; she d. 18 Dec. 1758, leaving a dau. 
[1] Elizabeth, d. 6 Feb. 1850, aged 91, having m. to the Marquis 
Lallv ToUendal, in the peerage of France ; he d. 1830. 
SIR&quot;J0HN m. 2ndly— Mary, dau. of Hon. John 
Hamilton (E. Haddixgtox) ; she d. 3 Dec. 1803, having had. 
with other issue 5 sons, 
[2] Sir Charles, 5th Baronet, capt. of Dunfermline troop of 
R. Fifeshire yeo. cav. D.L.; d. s. p. 26 Jan. 1837. 
[3] Sir Peter, s. as 6tll Baronet. 
[4] Henry, capt. E.I.C.S.; d. unm. 1818. 
[5] John, governor of the Bahamas and Tobago ; m. 1st, Anne, 
dau. of AVilliam Todd. Esq.; she d. s. p. He m. 2ndly — 6 July, 
1815, Lady Katharine Douglas, dau. of Dunbar, 4th Earl of Sel- 
kirk; she d. 31 Mar. 1848, having had with other issue 2 sons, 
(1) John Thomas Douglas, major 4th light di-agoons; b. 14 
April, 1818 ; fell in the Balaclava charge 1854, having m. 10 
July, 1849, d'harlotte Mary, dau. of late Charles Heard Beague, 
of Hollam House, Somerset (she re-m. Aug. 1856, to Arthur 
George St. John Mildmay — Bart.), and had a dau. 
(1) Mary Katherine, m. 20 July, 1881, to Francis William 
Robertson, of Nether Scale Hall, co. Leic. and ChUeo^^e, 
Derbysh. 
(2) Dunbar Stewart, rector of Little Bookham, Surrey; b. 
30 April, 1817 ; m. 13 April, 1847, Julia Elizabeth, dau. of 
William Sutherland Ross, of Tain, Ross-shire, Esq. ; she d. 
23 April, 1849, leaving a dau. — Katherine Euphemia. 
[6] Sir Alexander, K.c.H. gen. in the army; b. 
d. 24 Aug. 1851, having m. G«orgiana, dau. of Sprowel, 
Esq. and had with 3 sons, a dau. 
Mary, who m. Aug. 1843, to Alexander Leith, of Glenkindie, 
Aberdeen, and has an only dau. and heir — Georgiana. 
SIR PETER halkett&quot;, 6th Baronet, G.c.H. adm. of the 
blue, served at Camperdo^Ti, &amp;c.; b. d. 7 Oct. 
1839, aged 74, having m. 14 Oct. 1802, Elizabeth, dau. of William 
Todd, Esq. of London, aforesaid ; she d. 1814, having 
had a son and 2 daus. 
[1] Sir John, s. as 7th Baronet. 
[2] Jane Margaret, d. 3 May. 1857, ha%-ing m. to Capt. 
Richard Kinvan Hill, late 52nd regt. (Bart.) He d. ' 
[3] ilary Emily Elizabeth, m. 10 July, 1839, to Robert Henry 
Stuart Jackson, capt. 97th regt. (son. of Lieut.-Gen. Alexander 
Cosby Jackson), and has had 4 sons and 4 daus. 
(1) Halket Francis Jack.«ox, bt. major 63rd regt. late capt, 
h. p. late lieut. and adj. 67th regt. served in Aflfghan campaign 
1877,80; b. 23 Oct. 1842; m. 1873, Maude Delamaine, 
dau. of late Major Harris, Madras army.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 17.djvu/502</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="6900" sha1="d36cvrk400geevrx2acbnsyyto8ago3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|*|458|*}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;SAINT LOUIS WOELD'S FAIR. 
438 
SAINT-MALO. 
'oriitiiin ot' tlio Iniiulrcdth aiinivcisary of the ac- 
quisition of the Louisiana Territory by the United 
(States. t)n June 4. IflOO, (.^oufjress promised the 
sum of live million dollars toward the lioldinj; of 
such an exposition, on condition that an additional 
ten million dollars be raised by Saint Louis, and 
in April, 1!)01, the Louisiana Purchase Exposi- 
tion Coinjiaiiy was incorporated with a capital 
of six million dollars. In June the site of the 
exposition was fixed at Forest Park, a tract of 
114'2 acres of well-worked forest land within 
the city limits, and including about 110 acres 
belon^'ing to Washinjiton University, which, with 
its buildings, were leaded to the Kxposition Com- 
pany. The architectural plan jirovidcd for fif- 
teen large exhibition buildings, the main group 
of which was arranged in the form of a fan. 
The apex of the fan was formed by the Art 
Palaces, three massive buildings to remain after 
the exhibition, of which the central one was 
designed as a memorial building. Other notable 
structures with their dimensions were: The 
Klectricity Building, 7.50 by 525 feet; the Varied 
Industries Building, 1200 by 525 feet, with a 
tower 400 feet high; the JIachincry Building, 
750 by 525 feet; the Transportation Building, 
1500 by 525 feet; the Textiles Building, 750 by 
520 feet; the Manufactures Building, 1200 by 
525 feet; the INIines and iletallurgy and the 
Liberal Art« buildings, each 750 by 525 feet; and 
the Government Building. 800 by 175 feet. 
Thirty-four States and Territories made appro- 
priations amounting to more than ,$4,500,000, 
part of which was expended in special buildings. 
Foreign governments also were largely repre- 
.sented, and many of them erected special and 
typical structures: as, for instance. France, 
which reproduced the Petit Trianon of Versailles. 
The administrative system of the Exposition in- 
cluded four executive divisions: Exhibits, Ex- 
ploitation, Works, and Concessions and Admis- 
sion. The Division of Exhibits comprised the 
following fifteen departments: Education. Art, 
Liberal Arts, Manufactures, Machinery, Elec- 
tricity, Transportation. Agriculture. Horticul- 
ture, Forestry, Mining and Metallurgy. Fish and 
Game, Anthropology, .Special Economy, and Phys- 
ical Culture. The formal dedication occurred 
on April .30. 100.3. 
SAINT LUCIA, liw-se'a. The largest of the 
Britisli Wimlward Islands. West Indies. It is 
situated 25 miles north of Saint Vincent and about 
the same distance south of Martinique (Map: West 
Indies, R 8). Area, 233 square miles. The is- 
land is volcanic and mountainous, with an active 
volcanic peak over 3000 feet high. The rain- 
fall is abundant, and the mountains are covered 
with luxuriant tropical forests. The chief agri- 
cultural products are sugar, cocoa, logwood, cof- 
fee, and spices. By reason of the exceptionally 
good harbor at Castries, Saint Lucia has more 
shipping than any other British West Indian 
island, except .Jamaica, which it nearly equals. 
The entries and clearings in 1001 amounted to 
1,804,720 tons. Population, in 1801. 42,220; in 
1901, 50,237, chiefly negroes. Capital, Castries 
(q.v. ). Saint Lucia was discovered in 1502 and 
colonized by the French in 1563. It changed 
hands between England and France a number of 
times, until it became permanently a British 
possession in 1803. In 1898 it suffered severely 
from a hurricane. 
SAINT LUKE, Tjie Academy of (Accademia 
di S;ui Liica). The academy of the fine arts at 
Home. In the later Jliddle Ages there was a 
guild of painters at Rome, whose sanctuary was 
the small Church of San Luca, on the Esquiline. 
It first ajipears on record in 1478, when it re- 
new-ed and revised its ancient statutes, and as- 
sumed the name &quot;Universitil delle Belle Arti.&quot; 
The jjresent academy, organized after the plans 
of the painter JIuziano, was first recognized in a 
brief of Gregory XIII. in 1517, its immediate 
recognition having been prevented by the opposi- 
tion of the elder society, which it finally absorbed. 
Under Sixtus V. Federigo Zuccari obtained a bull 
(1588) approving the new organization, which 
was ])laced under the patronage of Saint Luke, 
and endowing it with the revenues of the Cliureh 
of San Martino, the name of which was changed to 
Santi Martino e Luca. The inauguration was post- 
poned till Xovember 14. 1593, under Clement 
VIII. The academ.v owed much to Zuccari, its first 
prince, who left it his fortune. In 1700 Clement 
XI. instituted and endowed the annual prizes of 
painting, sculpture, and architecture. The con- 
stitution of the academy was but slightly modi- 
fied until 1818. At the head stood a prince, ap- 
pointed annuall.v, and this office was held by 
some of the most celebrated artists, like jNIaratta, 
Lebrun, and Canova. In 1818 Pius VII.. fol- 
lowing the advice of Canova. granted a new- 
constitution, which has not been materiallv 
changed since the annexation of Rome to the 
Kingdom of Italy in 1870. 
There are thirty-six academicians, chosen in 
equal numbers from among the painters, sculp- 
tors, and architects, besides foreign and hono- 
rary members; at the head of the academy is a 
president, elected annually. It also maintains a 
school of design, in which instruction in paint- 
ing, sculpture, and architecture is given. Besides 
its ]u'ivate endowment, the academy receives ii 
subsidy of 35.000 francs from the State. It has 
retained its quarters in the Via Bonella, near the 
Forum Romanum, where are located its schools 
and its valuable collection of paintings. The 
latter contains good examples of Gaspard Pous- 
sin, Claude Lorrain, Titian, Veronese, Salvator 
Rosa. Guido Reni, and the much-discussed &quot;Saint 
Luke Painting the Madonna,&quot; formerly attributed 
to Raphael. The academy also possesses a small 
collection of sculpture, presented by the artists, 
and the valuable Biblioteca Sarti, presented in 
1881. It has been of great influence and celebrity, 
the French and English academies having been 
modeled upon it. Consult Armand, L'acadimie 
de Kaivt Luc a Rome (Rome, 1866). 
SAINT LUKE, Guilds of. Mediaeval asso- 
ciations of painters, under the patronage of 
Saint Luke, formed to protect the interests of 
their members. Engravers, printers, and mem- 
bers of other occupations related to bookmaking 
were later received into the guilds, which had a 
long existence in Holland and flourished par- 
ticularl.v in Antwerp. 
SAINT-MALO. siiN'raa'liV. A seaport and 
the capital of an arrondissement in the Depart- 
ment of Ille-et-Vilaine. France. 51 miles north b.y 
west of Rennes ; at the mouth of the Ranee 
River, on the English Channel (Map: France, 
D 3 ) . It is attractjvel.v situated on a rock.v 
peninsula, and with its narrow winding streets 
and sixteenth-century ramparts has a very pic-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 16.djvu/314</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: OBTER → ORTER</comment>
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      <text bytes="6834" sha1="ouhbnsopxt5tlxdw70qm4ovaqizmtzr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|*|264|*}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;PORTER. 
•264 
PORTER. 
service until 1829, and then, being dissatisfied 
with it, resigned. He was soon afterwards ap- 
pointed consul-general to the Barbary Powers by 
President Jackson, and was later transferred as 
c'hargL' d'afi'aircs to Constantinople, where he died 
in 1843. Porter published a Journal of a Cruise 
Made to the Pacifick Ocean by the United States 
Frigate Essex (1815; 1822), a defense of his 
conduct at Fojardo (1825), and Constantinople 
and Its Environs (1835). Consult David Dixon 
Porter, Life of Commodore David Porter (Albany, 
1875). 
PORTER, David Dixox (1813-91). A dis- 
tinguished American admiral. He was a son of 
Commodore David Porter, and was born in Ches- 
ter, Pa., June 8, 1813. In 1824 he accompanied 
his father on his expedition against the West 
Indian pirates, and when his father became Ad- 
miral of the Mexican navy he entered the same 
service as a midshipman. While serving under 
his cousin. Captain David H. Porter, who was 
in command of a Mexican vessel cruising against 
Spanish commerce, young Porter took ])art in a 
desperate engagement with a much su'^erior Span- 
ish frigate. The vessel on which he was serving 
was captured, and he was for a short time con- 
fined in the guard-ship at Havana. Soon after 
his release he was commissioned a midshipman 
in the United States navy, and served until 1835 
on the European station. In 1846 he was sent by 
the Secretary of War on a secret mission to 
Haiti, and then served with distinction in the 
Mexican War as a lieutenant and afterwards as 
commanding otlicer of the Sjiitlirc. After the 
close of that struggle he obtained a furlough, and 
for some years commanded private passenger 
steamers. 
The Civil War gave Porter the opportunity to 
distinguish himself. The beginning of that strug- 
gle found him a lieutenant on shore duty; in a 
little more than two years he Mas a rear-admiral 
in command of a squadron. His first service in 
the war was to assist as commander of the Poio- 
hatan in the relief of Fort Pickens. Shortly 
afterwards he was advanced to the rank of com- 
mander. A little later, largely through his recom- 
mendation, Farragut was given command of the 
Western Gulf Blockading Squadron which w'as 
to operate against New Orleans, and Porter was 
put in charge of the fleet of bomb-vessels under 
iiim. By Farragut's order, Porter in April, 1862, 
began a bombardment of Forts .lackson and Saint 
Philip, which guarded the way up the Missis- 
sippi, and after six days and nights, in the course 
of which he threw into them more than 16,000 
shells, he reduced them to such a condition that 
Farragut's fleet was able to pass them and cap- 
ture New Orleans. Four days later the forts 
themselves surrendered to Porter. During the 
next few months he served with great credit in 
the operations between New Orleans and Vicks- 
burg. In September. 1862. he was put in charge 
of the Mississippi Squadron as acting rear-ad- 
miral. He improvised a navy-yard at Mound 
City, and soon increased his squadron of about a 
dozen effective vessels to more than 120 by con- 
verting ordinary river steamers into gunboats. 
With a part of this fleet he, in January, 1863, 
assisted the army in the capture of Arkansas 
Post, and next succeeded in running past the 
batteries of Vicksburg and reducing the Confeder- 
ate forts at Grand Gulf, He then cooperated 
with General Grant in the siege of Vicksburg, 
and upon the surrender of that place received the 
thanks of Congress and a commission as rear- 
admiral. In the spring of 1864 he assisted Gen- 
eral Banks in the disastrous expedition up the 
Red River, and it was only by the greatest e.xer- 
tions that he succeeded in saving his vessels. 
(See Bailey, Jo.sei'II.) In the same year he was 
put in command of the North Atlantic Blockad- 
ing Squadron. While in this command his most 
important service was in cooperating in the cap- 
ture of Fort Fisher, which was taken by assault 
on the 15th of .January. 1865, after a long and 
destructive bombardment by his fleet. For this 
service he again received the thanks of Congress. 
After peace came, he served from 1865 to 1869 
as superintendent of the Naval Academy at An- 
napolis, and did much to increase the efficiency 
of that institution. In 1866 he was promoted 
to be vice-admiral, and in 1870, upon the death 
of Farragut, was advanced to the highest of all 
naval ranks, that of admiral. He died in Wash- 
ington in 1891. 
Admiral Porter wrote a life of his father. Com- 
modore David Porter (1875) ; Ineidents and An- 
ecdotes of the Civil ^Yar (1885) ; History of the 
Navy in the War of the Rebellion (1887) ; two 
novels, Allan Dale and Robert le Dinblc (1885| 
and Harry Marline (1886) : a posthumous novel- 
ette, A Romance of Gettysburg, which appeared 
in the Criterion for 1903; and articles for various 
publications. 
Consult: Soley, Admiral Porter (New York, 
1903), in the'&quot;Great Commanders Series;&quot; Ches- 
ney's Essays iti Military Biography (New York, 
1874) ; and .Johnson and Buel (eds.). Battles and 
Leaders of the Civil War (New York, 1887). 
PORTER, FiTZ John (1822-1901). A dis- 
tinguished American soldier. He was born at 
Portsmouth, N. H., graduated at West Point in 
1845, and was assigned to the artillery, in which 
he became second lieutenant the following year. 
He served in the war with ilexico from the begin- 
ning; was wounded in the attack on the City of 
Mexico, September 13, 18-17: and was lirevctteil 
captain and major for gallantry in the battle of 
Molino del Rey and the storming of Chapultepec, 
respectively. After the war he was sent to West 
Point, where he served as adjutant of the post, 
and as instructor of artillery and cavalry. In 
1856 he was transferred to the Adjutant-General's 
department, and was assistant adjutant-general 
of the Utah expedition inider Albert Sidney 
Johnston in 1857. On May _1,4. 1861, he received 
the appointment of colonel of the 15th Infantry; 
was made brigadier-general of volimteers in the 
same month, and served as chief of staff with 
General Banks and General Patterson until .u- 
gust, when he was put in command of a division 
in the Army of the Potomac. He had charge of 
tlie siege operations against Yorktown during the 
Peninsular campaign, acted as military governoi 
of the place for a time after its evacuation, and 
was then given the command of the 5th Army 
Corps, which fought the battles of Mechaniesville 
and CJaincs's Mill, and bore the brunt of the fight 
at Malvern Hill. He was appointed brevet briga- 
dier-general in the Regular Army for gallantry 
at the battles of the Chickahominy. and on .July 4, 
1862, was commissioned major-general of volun- 
teers. At the second battle of Bull Run his fail- 
ure to move forward on the first day of the en-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 14.djvu/292</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: wlii →  whi,  sliow  →  show</comment>
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      <text bytes="6250" sha1="2dwvd11t3q8n2h7cq84i127otwqfpil" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|*|250|*}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;NARVA. 
250 
NARWHAL. 
ber of technical schools attadied to the ex- 
tensive cotton and woolen mills in the vicinity. 
There is a considerable trade in cotton and 
lumber. Population, in 1897, 10,577 — Germans, 
Esths, and Russians. The town was founded 
by the Danes in the thirteenth century, 
and, after being held for a short time by 
the Russians, passed to Sweden in 1581. Here, 
on Xovend)cr 30, 1700, an army of about 40,000 
Russians under I'ctcv the (ireat was conii)letely 
defeated by some 8000 Swedes under Charles XII. 
In 1704 I'eter the Great made himself master of 
the town. 
NARVACAN, nar'va-kiin'. A town of North- 
ern Luzon. I'liiliiijiines, in the Province of Ilocos 
Sur. It is silualcd on the main road, and on 
the proposed northern railioad, a short distance 
from the coast and about I'i miles southeast of 
Vigan. It has a population of 10,500, being next 
to the capital the largest town of the province. 
NARVAEZ, nar-vii'ath. Paxfilo de (1470?- 
I52SI. A Sixuiish soldier and 'conquistador.' He 
was born in Valladolid, and came to America 
about 1498, and became lieutenant to the Gov- 
ernor of Cuba, Velazquez. In 1520 Narvaez 
was sent with a body of soldiers to reduce 
Cortes, then in Mexico, to submission. Land- 
ing at San Juan de Ulua, he was surprised 
one dark night (ilay, 1520), and seized in 
his camp by a party under Cortes himself, 
who then persuaded the soldiers to join in the 
conquest of Mexico. After about two years of 
imprisonment at Vera Cruz, Narvaez was per- 
mitted to return to Spain. There he secured 
permission to conquer and govern the territory 
from Florida to the Rio de Palmas, which is 
now known as the Rio Cirande. He sailed from 
San Lucas, .Tunc 17, 1527, with a lleet carrying 
si.x hunilred colonists and soldiers, priests, and 
negro slaves, with a few women. Stopping at 
Santo Domingo for horses and supjilies, about a 
quarter of his men deserted in order to join in 
the exodus toward Mexico and Peru. Thence he 
went to Santiago de Cuba, where he jiasscd the 
winter, ami toward the end of Feliruary or early 
in March. 1.128, he finally started toward Florida. 
After many mischances, on Ajiril 14th he an- 
chored near a bay which he nauied lUiIiia de la 
Cruz, and which has been identified with .pala- 
chee Hay and Tampa Bay. Finding little here- 
abouts to justify settlement, on May 1st the 
company, now numbering three hundred, started 
to march through the country, while the vessels 
were to follow the shore as far as the harbor of 
Panuco. Hopelesslv misled by ln&lt;lian guides, 
lost in the tangled morasses, hungry and foot- 
sore, helpless against the harrying, pestering 
attacks of unseen natives, the Spaniards strug- 
gled along across the country until Scplenibcr 
22d, when, at a point named by Xarvaez Rahia 
de Cavallos, two hundred and forty survivors 
embarkeil in five boats which they had built 
with such rude tools as could be fashioned from 
their weapons. They fcdlowed the coast until 
(October .31st) they' reached the mouth of a 
mighty river, whose stream carried them out to 
sea. This was the Mississippi. Here two of the 
boats, in one of which was N'arvaez, disappeared. 
The others made their way toward the shore, but 
n storm siqiarated them nurr more. Only one 
reached the land. For the fate of the survivors. 
see NviNEZ Cabeca de Vaca, Alvab. 
NARVAEZ, l^iiiu.N iLRiA, Duke of Valencia 
(1800-08). A Spanish general and statesman, 
born at Loja. in Andalusia. In early youth he 
fought in the war of lilieration against, the 
French. In 1822 Xarvaez acted with the Liberals 
and contributed to the suppression of the revolt 
in the Koyal Guards, lie withdrew to Loja in 
182;! upon the triumph of the Reactionary Party, 
and lived there in retirement until the death ol 
Ferdinand ll. in 1833. He was engaged in the 
Bas(]ue provinces in 1834. then conmutnded a divi- 
sion luider Ksparlero, and in Xovember, 1830, 
routed the Carlist leader, Gomez, near Arcos. He 
won i)opularity in these campaigns, and was 
reganleil as the rival of Espartero. In 1.S38, 
by acts of great severity, he cleared the District 
of La ^lancha of brigands, and was appointed, i:i 
1840, Captain-General of Old Castile, and general- 
in-chief of the army of reserve. He took part in 
the insurrection against Espartero that l)roke 
out at S&lt;'ville in 1840, but was compelled to lice 
to France. He succeeded in 1843 in liringing 
alniut the overthrow of the Government of Espar- 
tero, and was made president of the Council and 
created Duke of Valencia in 1844. He entered 
upon a thorouglily reactionary policy and revised 
the Liberal Constitution of 1837. Petty insur- 
rections broke out, which the rigorous soldier- 
statesman repressed with an iron hand. But his 
dictatorial maimers alienated even his per.sonal 
friends, and his ilinistry was overtluown (Feb- 
ruary 10, 184G). After serving as special Am- 
bassador at the French Court, he returned to 
power in 1847, but soon afterwards quarreled 
with Queen Christina, and retired from ollice in 
1851. In 1850. on the overthrow of the O'Doimcll 
Ministry, he again became president of thi' Coun- 
cil. Intrigues of the Court compelled bis resigna- 
tion in 1857. Once more in ])owcr in 18(i4. he 
was succeciled in the fidlowing year by O'Donnell. 
with whom he suppressed, in 18(;(1. a military 
revolt in Madrid. He supplanted 0&quot;Donncll in 
the same year, and, despite the ellorts of O'Don- 
nell and Prim, retained power until his death, 
April 23. 1808. See ^^azade. Lcs revolutions 
d'Esjiaiiiii I I'aris, 1809). 
NARWHAL, niir'wol (from Swed.. Dan. 
narhval, Icel. nalwalr, probably from Icel. iiar. 
corpse 4&quot; hrnlr. whale; so called from the pale 
sKn.L OP NAHiraAL. 
Tlic lowi&gt;r]nw linfl bot»n reninvpd. ftinl the vii'w Is of t.hfl 
roof &lt;»r till' iiMUith. whifli liMstn'iMi partl.vi-ut away to show 
till' ili'f|) liiwrlloii lit thi' root of Hit- tusk (&lt;iii llic Ii'(t&gt;-liiuid 
Hiilc) ami tijt-' abortive tooth on the rlg))t~hand ekle of the 
upper jaxv. 
color of the skin). A cetacean of the family 
lielugida'. resembling the white whale in form 
and in the want of a dorsal fin, but renuirkably 
characterized by liaviiig no teeth at all, except&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 11.djvu/138</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3113054</id>
    <revision>
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      <text bytes="6869" sha1="i81z7jn6uwaljhtpgyqbkccyh0dlnv5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TE(æ)A,ea.&quot; /&gt;{{rh|JAPAN.|122|JAPAN.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Rivers and their feeders, while in Shikoku flat lands lie along the Yoshino River and in Kiushiu along the Chikugo. In Formosa a plain 20 miles wide, expanding toward the south, lies between the mountains and the western coast.

The general trend of the mountain systems is along the longer extension of the islands—that is, from southwest to northeast, or from south-southwest to north-northeast—but in several places the main chains are intersected by other lofty ridges, running in a general way from north to south, as in Kiushiu, Central Hondo, and Yezo. It is at these points that the greatest mountain masses and the most imposing scenery are found. In Formosa, also, the great backbone of the island extends from north to south, several of its peaks exceeding in height those of Japan proper. Beginning with the volcanic elevations of the Kurile group, which form a line of 32 stepping-stones from Kamtchatka to the island of Yezo, a range of trachytic and basaltic rocks is intersected near the centre of Yezo by a loftier and more massive chain composed of granite and old schists, from Cape Soya on the north (a continuation of the Saghalin system), the highest peak of which is the Tokachi, with an elevation of 8200 feet. Farther on toward the southwest this volcanic Kurilian range merges into the west coast range from Cape Soya, and is marked by some remarkable volcanoes, the most noted though not the highest of which is Komagatake, or ‘Foal Mountain’ (a name of common occurrence in Japan), with a height of nearly 4000 feet. Branching into two lines after the long western arm of the island rounds Volcano Bay, these mountains reappear on the main island in two parallel chains. One, the Northern Schist range, separates the valley of the Kitagami River from the Pacific; the other, the main chain, continues toward the southwest, forms the backbone of the island until it meets the great complex of massive intersecting ridges which inclose the plateau of Shinano (2550 feet above the sea), and occupies the central portion of the main island where it is widest. It sends out important branches and continuations southeast through the Hakone range into Idzu; southwest through Yamato and Shikoku to Kiushiu; and westerly through the centre of Chiugoku to Shimonoseki, forming in its course the dividing line between the group of provinces known as San-yodo and that called San-in-do.

In this central mountain mass, which covers the provinces of Kaga, Etchiu, Hida, Shinshiu, Koshiu, and part of Kodzuke are found the loftiest peaks of Japan proper (next after Fujiyama ‘the Peerless,’ with its elevation of 12,365 feet, which soars near the southeast coast, not very far from Tokio). They also offer the grandest scenery, and hence are frequently called the ‘Japanese Alps.’ The principal summits are: Haku-san in Kaga, an extinct volcano, with a height of 8920 feet; Yariga-take, 10,000 feet, in Hida; Gohonsha, the highest peak of the Tate-yama range, 9500 feet; Ko-ma-ga-take, 10,384 feet; and scores of others. Farther north in the Nikko range of Shimotsuke is Shirane-san, 8580 feet; Nantai-san, 8150 feet; and farther north still, on the shores of Lake Inawashiro, is Bandai-san, 6280 feet. Thence northward are Gwassan, 6200 feet; Gan-ju-san, or the Nambu-Fuji, 6500 feet; and southward along the west coast from Iwaki-san or Tsusaru-Fuji (4500 feet), are Cho-kai-san, 7800 feet, Haguro-san, and others, each as a rule sacred to some deity and consequently much visited by pilgrims. Snow covers most of them in winter, but, except in a few cases, as, for example, Haku-san and the peaks of the great mountain masses of Shinano and Hida, it disappears before the end of summer. Even on Fujiyama only patches of snow remain from year to year. The ''toge'' or passes by which these mountains are crossed are comparatively low, due to the fact, as Rein points out, that (1) the mountain masses of primitive crystalline rocks and schists do not rise very high, and that (2) the volcanic formations, which have in so many places burst through and overlain them, seldom form long or very high ridges.

It is said that there are in Japan, which is of volcanic origin, 170 volcanoes, most of them, however, regarded as extinct, some merely quiescent, but scores still active, sending forth smoke and steam, or serving as landmarks at night by their fiery glow. Among the more famous volcanoes still reckoned as active are Asama-yama, in Shinano; Komaga-take and several others, in Yezo; Chacha-take, in one of the Kuriles; Shirane-yama, in the Nikko range; Mihara-yama, on Oshima or ‘Vries Island,’ one of the ‘Seven Islands,’ lying off the promontory of Idzu; and Suwa-shima, in Loo-choo. As late as 1888 {{NIE article link|Bandai-san|nosc=yes}} (q.v.) was in a state of violent eruption. Earthquakes are of frequent occurrence, and even in comparatively recent times some have been very disastrous. The line of greatest seismic disturbance extends from Loo-choo through Kiushiu to the northeast. On October 28, 1891, occurred an earthquake, felt in six provinces; 7279 persons lost their lives, 17,393 were injured, and 197,947 buildings were utterly destroyed.

Thermal springs and solfataras are exceedingly numerous. In Japan proper, the former, chiefly sulphur, are said to occur in 388 different localities, and almost all are much patronized by the natives. The chief are Kusatsu and Ikao, in Kodzuke; Yumoto, at the foot of Shirane-yama, in the Nikko range; and Enoyu on Kirishima-yama, in Kiushiu. Chalybeate springs, both hot and cold, are also found. The solfataras are well exemplified by the Ojigoku and Ko-jigoku, or ‘Great and Little Hells,’ of the Hakone range.

{{sc|Hydrography.}} Owing to the mountainous character of the country, and the narrowness of the islands, Japan cannot boast of long rivers, no part being farther distant from the sea than about 100 miles. Yet the country is well watered. Every valley has its stream or its streamlet, and one of the chief charms of the scenery is the rush of the numerous waters, and the beauty of its waterfalls, while the swiftness and torrential character of many of the streams present grave problems to the engineer engaged in railway construction or bridge-building. The largest river in the Empire is the Ishikari, in Yezo, which flows into the Sea of Japan, after a course of 407 miles. On the main island, the three great kawa, or rivers, are the Shinanogawa, the Tonegawa, and the Kisogawa. The Shinano rises in the province of that name, has a course of 320 miles, and flows northwest into the Sea of Japan. The Kitagami, in the northeast, has a course of 122 miles, and flows southeast into the Bay of Sendai. The Tonegawa rises in Kodzuke, traverses the plain of Kwanto, and enters the Pacific near Tokio, after a course&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="6984" sha1="gvkw4yzds975lwrlw61cqqw1qmnjhw1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TE(æ)A,ea.&quot; /&gt;{{rh|JAPAN.|132|JAPAN.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|guage|language}}, English (then French or German), agriculture, geography, history, mathematics, natural history, physics, chemistry, etc. In the higher grade the course covers two years of Latin, zoology, botany, geology, mineralogy, dynamics, surveying, philosophy, etc.

(4) The university crowns the whole. Besides these there are normal schools and special schools.

Instruction is not gratuitous, and the local school boards, which are elected by the people, have to provide for those too poor to pay. The school age is from six to fourteen. In 1898 the number of children of school age was 7,709,424. In 1899 the public and private primary schools numbered 26,997, with 88,660 teachers, and 4,302,623 pupils in attendance (2,672,372 boys, and 1,630,251 girls), or an average of 48.53 to every teacher. These figures do not include Formosa, whore there is a special educational system. In that year public school property was valued at $25,060,960, including land, buildings, books, instruments, etc.

In 1899 there were 190 middle schools, with 3083 instructors, and 68,885 pupils; 40 normal schools, with 839 instructors, and 12,829 students; 275 special and technical schools, with 1970 teachers, and 34,969 students; 30 superior schools for girls, with 430 teachers, and 8474 pupils; 2686 miscellaneous schools, with 5733 teachers, and 109,209 pupils (30 of which with 1441 pupils were in Hokkaido, and 1523 with 35,835 pupils were in Formosa ).

There are 42 schools of law, medicine, political economy, literature, and science, with 782 professors (some of whom are foreigners), and 11,627 students; 120 schools of arts, manufactures, agriculture, commerce, etc., with 1033 professors (some foreign) and 15,772 students. The preparatory schools number 107, have 202 teachers, and 7324 pupils. Lastly, there are six schools for deaf mutes. One hundred students were also maintained abroad. The 38 libraries had 484,225 Chinese and Japanese books, and 63,332 in European languages. The total expenditure was $13,952,581. The Imperial University at Tokio was founded in 1809 by the consolidation of two schools—the Kai-sei-gakko and the Sho-heiko, which had come into existence in the Shogun’s time, and later other colleges were added. In 1900 it had 15 foreign and 211 Japanese professors and instructors, and 2880 students. The University of Kioto was opened in 1899 with one foreign and 69 native professors, and 300 students. It has a University Hall and four colleges. In the same year the number of books published was 21,235, of which 4453 related to law and administrative organization; 1237 to agriculture; 1058 religion; 118 painting; dictionaries, 77; history, 206; and geography, 474; and 464,458,141 copies of 978 periodicals were issued.

{{sc|Religion.}} It is customary to speak of the ''two'' religions of Japan—{{NIE article link|Shinto|Shintō|nosc=yes}} and {{NIE article link|Buddhism|nosc=yes}} (qq.v.)—but to these may now be added Christianity, for the old prohibitions have been removed, and under the new Constitution of 1889 absolute freedom of speech and freedom of religious opinion and belief are guaranteed. The first-mentioned of the three, Shinto, ‘the way of the gods,’ is a purely native cult. It has no creed, no doctrinal system, no moral code, no priests, and no images in its 191,962 temples and shrines, though it has nearly 14,000 gods, before whom, or some of whom, certain offerings are made from time to time; to whom certain prayers are addressed on such occasions, and before whom certain ceremonious dances are performed in a very punctilious and decorous way. It appears to be a mild kind of ancestor and hero worship which has come down from primitive times. The chief deity is Amaterasu, the ‘sun-goddess,’ from whom the mikados are descended. It exerts no particular influence for good on the people, though it does them no harm. From the ninth century onward it became much tinged and corrupted with Buddhism, indeed was practically absorbed by it, {{NIE article link|Kobo Daishi|Kōbō Daishi|nosc=yes}} (q.v.) having apparently convinced everybody that the Shinto gods were merely manifestations or transmigrations of Buddhist deities. It is stated that 12 sects of Shinto now exist.

Buddhism entered Japan by way of Korea in 552 along with the arts, sciences, and letters of China. Its gilded images and its gorgeous temples and ritual appealed to the Japanese mind, and the new religion became popular. It gained both the favor and the patronage of the Imperial Court, and in 621 it was by edict proclaimed to be the established religion. Priests went to China, or were sent there by the Government to study, and these on their return brought with them new scriptures, new sects, and new ideas which soon began to blossom out into other new sects in Japan. Kobo Daishi in 816 founded the {{NIE article link|Shingon|Shin-gon|nosc=yes}} (q.v.) or the sect with the form of ‘true words;’ the Zen or ‘contemplative’ sect was introduced in 1202; the Jodo or ‘pure-land’ sect (see {{NIE article link|Ts’ing-tu|Ts'ing-tu}} and {{NIE article link|Sukhavati|Sukhāvatī}}) in 1211; the Shin-shiu or ‘new sect,’ an offshoot of the preceding, in 1262; the Nichiren in 1282; and many others. Now there are 70 sects and sub-sects, all based on or developments of the Mahayana or ‘Northern School’ of Buddhism in which Sakyamuni, the historical Buddha, has little or no place. The most important of these as far as influencing the people is concerned are the Jodo, which finds Nirvana too hard to attain to, and provides instead a ‘Paradise in the West,’ presided over by Amida Buddha, where the faithful may enjoy a blissful existence through untold ages, and whence, if they have to be reborn, it will be easy to reach the Nirvana state. The Shin-shiu, an offshoot from Jodo, has been called the ‘Protestantism of Japan.’ It teaches that salvation may be obtained merely by faith in the mercy of Amida—the chief of the Buddhas—and his ability to save, without works of any kind. No change of heart or conduct is necessary and nothing is required beyond loving one another, keeping orderly, and observing the laws of the Government. Its priests may marry, and they are free to eat both flesh and fish. This is the most powerful of the Japanese sects; its temples are large and magnificent, are found in the most crowded parts of the cities, and are thronged day and night with silent worshipers. In 1899 its temples numbered 19,213. Buddhism was disestablished in 1871, and disendowed in 1874, and there is now no State religion. The great majority of the people arc Buddhists, but there are no organized bodies of church members as there are in Christendom. Among the upper classes agnosticism prevails.

If Shinto can be called a religion, then Christianity comes third. All its churches are enrolled by the Government, and are protected by law. In&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 11.djvu/151</title>
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      <text bytes="6900" sha1="1s0x9wgddrw6zud7oj1przthsao7cmv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TE(æ)A,ea.&quot; /&gt;{{rh|JAPAN.|133|JAPAN.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;1900 there were 723 Protestant missionaries in the country, 570 native preachers and helpers, 416 churches, 42,273 enrolled members, and 14 theological and other schools, with 5011 students and pupils. The Roman Catholics had 106 European missionaries, 117 church edifices, 251 congregations, and 54,602 adherents. The Greek Church had 438 native workers, 297 churches, 25,698 followers, and schools with 19,055 pupils.

In 1899 there were 71,977 Buddhist temples and monasteries, with 54,635 priests, 10,983 students, and 59,943 preachers. The Shinto temples numbered 191,962, in charge of kannushi or temple-keepers, not priests as they are sometimes miscalled.

{{sc|Ethnology.}} The modern Japanese are a very mixed people. The largest factor in the production of the Japanese is to be traced back to the Mongolian race of the adjacent continent, a view confirmed by the physical characteristics of a considerable portion of the population at the present time. Some, indeed, group Japanese and Koreans together as being ancestrally very closely akin, by physical characters as well as by speech. But among the Japanese, as among the Koreans, and in certain parts of China, there are recognizable three physical types—an Aino type, chiefly characteristic of Northern Japan; a Manchu-Korean, in the regions nearest Korea; and a Malayo-Mongolic, in the centre and east. The Korean-Manchu type seems to go back, like the primitive Chinese, to a Mongolian ancestry with a strain of proto-Caucasian blood, while the Ainos (see {{NIE article link|Aino|Aino, or Ainu}}) are perhaps allied to the most primitive Caucasians; but such opinions must be accepted with caution. The best authorities agree in distinguishing a ‘fine’ and a ‘coarse’ type among the modern Japanese. The former is taller, more slenderly and gracefully built, longer faced and longer headed, with better-shaped nose, and, generally, less distinctively Mongolic in form and features, with lighter skin, etc. This is the dominant type of the aristocracy and upper classes, and is found in those parts of the Empire nearest Korea, whence the original representatives of this type probably immigrated into Japan. The ‘finer’ type may be considered to he the descendants of the Japanese immigrants from the continent, who conquered and intermingled with the original inhabitants, or Ainos. This ‘fine’ type has now become the Japanese ideal. The ‘coarse’ type is characterized by shorter stature and thick-set body, broader skull and face, more prominent cheek-bones, somewhat oblique eyes, large lips, wide mouth, more powerful jaw, flatfish nose and wide nostrils, darker skin, and generally more of the Mongolian in form and feature. Many of the women of the upper classes seem to belong more to the ‘coarse’ type, which may be accounted for by the process of conquest and the practice of polygamy. Both the ‘fine’ and the ‘coarse’ types are mixed, and in the north, from intermingling with the Ainos, another mixed type has been and is still being produced.

The population of Japan may thus be considered to consist of a prehistoric proto-Aino and later historic Aino element, upon which the Sibiric ancestors of the Japanese proper imposed themselves by slow degrees until they ultimately became the dominant factor. There has been added, perhaps at several different periods, a Malay or Polynesian element, which is noticeable in Central and Eastern Japan, where it is thought to have modified considerably both physical and social characters. Traces of ancient Negrito influence have been seen in Japan by some authorities, but others attach no importance to these alleged proofs of the former existence of a black race in Japan.

Physically the Japanese are not a strongly developed people, but they are capable of great exertion and endurance. A number of somatic peculiarities have been noted in the Japanese, such as the divided molar bone (''os japonicum''), the low, broad upper jaw, without canine fossa, and the so-called ‘Japanese knee’ (due to the practice of sitting so much). In their general physical conformation many of the Japanese males of the better classes have a decidedly feminine, or even child-like, cast, a character thought by some authorities to belong more or less to the Mongolian race in general.

Intellectually the Japanese have shown a capacity equal to that of any other known people, and their native power is revealed by the fact that while their manners, customs, and certain institutions were modified in ancient times by Chinese culture, and in recent times by European and American civilization, the fundamental traits of their character have not been altered. The mental and moral characters of the Japanese may be summed up as patience and persistence, combined with cheerfulness, a certain versatility and quick-wittedness, enterprise and originality, together with unexcelled powers of imitation, as well as progressiveness, industry, artistic sense, humor, cleanliness, politeness, honor, bravery, kindness, calmness, and ability to conceal the emotions. From the Chinese and some other Mongolian peoples the Japanese differ in the freedom accorded to women from the remotest times down to the present day, their less altruistic ethical system, their high estimation of the warrior and their appreciation of war as a means of national advancement, their national virility, and their power to respond to and accept facts of modern social and historical evolution. The social and moral life of the Japanese offers much that is interesting in the way of evolution. In sexual relations they range from polygamy and concubinage to monogamy.

As compared with China, and perhaps with Korea, the civilization of Japan is comparatively modern, for the coming of the continental Mongoloid ancestors of the Japanese to the island may be fixed at {{asc|B.C.}} 2000–1500. Their conquest of the various islands of the great archipelago was slow and apparently difficult, as the Japanese annals themselves record, for the Aino and proto-Aino population was well distributed throughout the group. Relics of Aino origin are found almost everywhere, but naturally in more abundance toward the north. The amount of Aino blood in the modern Japanese is considerably more than hitherto supposed, and the liberal policy of the present authorities toward the Ainos of the extreme north is leading to a recognition of the abilities and intellectuality of this ancient and primitive people, pointing to their ultimate disappearance, not by dying out or extermination, but by absorption into the general population. The question of the Malayan or Polynesian element in Japan is more difficult to elucidate. Twice at least in Japanese annals there is mention of swarthy foreigners from the south who made irruptions into Eastern and Central Japan.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 11.djvu/152</title>
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      <text bytes="6909" sha1="o6643xtjn395yoetkdj25x3332syr40" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TE(æ)A,ea.&quot; /&gt;{{rh|JAPAN.|134|JAPAN.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;These, according to several authorities, were Malayan or Malayoid tribes, who came by way of Formosa and the Loo-choo Islands, and the physical characteristics of this section of Japan bear testimony to their presence and their numbers. Other evidence of a Malayan influence exists, according to some ethnologists, in the structure of the house, the practice of massage, certain dances, luxury, and love of weapons. Some of these resemblances are too general, however, and others too dearly the product of the Japanese environment, to be conclusive evidence. The introduction of Chinese and Korean civilization into Japan dates back for its beginnings to about the first Christian century, and this influence was strengthened after the transference of Buddhism in the sixth century.

{{sc|Manners, Customs, etc.}} The Japanese are a cheerful, contented people, lovers of nature, and always ready for a holiday. Responsibility rests lightly on their shoulders, and employers have always to reckon on absences from time to time on account of ‘sickness’ when apparently there is none; and a contract is not always sacred. Opium-growing and the importation of it are forbidden, and Government supplies the needs of the medical profession. Courteousness is a distinguishing trait, and their ceremonious politeness is oftentimes most embarrassing to the foreigner, who is not usually given to self-depreciatory remarks, and whose stock of honorifics is small and not always instantly at command. Handshaking is not a Japanese custom, and the lowness of the obeisance varies with the rank of the individual, women and the lower classes usually getting down on their knees. Children dress exactly like their elders, and though their foot-gear is clogs held on by a band passing between the big toe and the next one, they romp and run as much and as fast as European or American children. Their socks—when they wear them—have a separate compartment for the big toe. Their toys and indoor amusements are innumerable. In dress the Japanese are not burdened with much underclothing. Their chief outer garment is the loose-sleeved gown known as the kimono, open in front but bound round the waist with a sash. That of the women is a little longer, differs somewhat in the sleeves, and the sash or ''obi'' is wide and formed into a bow at the back which varies in style according to age, etc. Married women shave off their eyebrows, and blacken their teeth with the juice of the persimmon-tree. The coffure is an elaborate construction with ‘waterfalls,’ plastered down with bandolin and decked with stick-pins.

Japanese houses are usually of one story. There are no cellars. The floor is about 2½ or 3 feet from the ground, and is formed of soft, thickly padded mats measuring 6 feet by 3, and on these the family sit (or rather squat on their heels), eat, and sleep. There are no tables, chairs, or bedsteads, thick wadded quilts serving as mattress and blankets. Heat when wanted is provided by a ''hihachi'' or brazier filled with burning charcoal. The pillow is a little paper-covered cylindrical cushion strapped on a narrow stool, which is placed under the neck so as not to disturb the hair. Foot-gear is left in the porch before stepping on the verandah. A single picture, changed with the season, and a small wall vase containing a single sprig, form the only decoration, apart from that of the shōji or sliding paper screens which serve as partitions. Passers-by may get a glimpse through the open screens of a tiny garden at the back, with a miniature rivulet, a stone thrown across it as a bridge, a miniature hillock crowned with a dwarfed pine, and a flowering shrub or two, and perhaps a stone-pillar lantern. A neccssary feature of every house is the ‘god-shelf,’ or family altar, where is the little shrine—Shinto or Buddhist—before which the offerings are placed. Cleanliness is next to godliness, and the bathtub at the back, with its little furnace in one end for boiling the water, is patronized by every member of the family in succession, the water being invariably hot (100° to 115° F.).

Food is served on little lacquered stands about a foot high, and is eaten with chop-sticks (both of the same material). Rice, with soup of seaweed, beans, vegetables, or hard-boiled egg cut up into pieces, with a little fish with soy, and the like, daintily served, make the meal, saké (their fermented beverage) when used being heated and served in the tiniest of porcelain cups. Tea is the usual beverage. But there is no meal called ‘tea.’ Pickled daikon (or radish) is their chief relish.

Married life is usually happy. Of 8537 suicides in 1899, only 212 were due to family quarrels, and 600 were attributable to ‘love.’ Ceremonial uncleanness arises from contact with the dead in any way, and mourners are ‘unclean.’ Those returning from a funeral are sprinkled with salt before reëntering the house. Those who favor the Shinto cult bury their dead in coffins. Cremation was introduced by the Buddhists about {{asc|A.D.}} 700. After the Restoration it was forbidden, but a custom of such long standing could not be wiped out with the stroke of a pen. The people, and especially the women, are very superstitious, and are believers in ghosts, demons, fairies, and witchcraft. A handful of green peas thrown at a suspected demon will cause him to scamper off, and when the {{NIE article link|fox|Fox|nosc=yes}} (q.v.) or the badger is suspected by the careful mother with daughters of being around, a flash from her metallic magic mirror will strip Mr. Fox or Mr. Badger of his disguise; and it is a curious fact that the presence or proximity of a serpent should never be pointed out to a woman or mentioned to her. Everybody wears a charm or charms.

{{c|{{asc|History.}}}}

The Japanese begin their history with a year which corresponds to {{asc|B.C.}} 660, when {{NIE article link|Jimmu Tenno|Jimmu Tennō|nosc=yes}} (q.v.), the leader of a band of invaders, settled in Yamato after having conquered several of the tribes who opposed him. Our only source of information in regard to the early history of the dynasty which was founded by him, and which exists to the present day, is found in the ''[[Kojiki]]'', the oldest extant book of Japan, in which are found the myths and legends written down in Chinese characters in the years 711–712 by one [[Author:Ō no Yasumaro|Yasumaro]], from the lips of a person named Hiyeda-no-Are, who possessed a most wonderful memory! These myths and legends, under close analysis, show three streams of legends—the Tsukushi or Kiushiu cycle; the Idznmo legendary cycle, which covers Central and Western Japan; and the Yamato cycle, which covers the central and eastern parts of the main island. The northern and eastern part of the main island was inhabited by the Emishi savages, or Ainos, who had&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 11.djvu/156</title>
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      <text bytes="7928" sha1="l06uw83yjrs2my1zc2l0il29q2rbnqt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TE(æ)A,ea.&quot; /&gt;{{rh|JAPAN.|138|JAPANESE ART.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;{{hwe|lin|(Berlin}}, 1902); and the ''Reports of the Japan Bureau of Commerce and Industry''.

{{sc|Government; Politics:}} [[w:Charles Le Gendre|Le Gendre]], ''Progressive Japan: A Study of the Political and Social Needs of the Empire'' (San Francisco, 1878); Kussaka, ''Das japanische Geldwesen'' (Berlin, 1890); [[w:Karl Rathgen|Rathgen]], ''Japans Volkswirtschaft und Staatshaushalt'' (Leipzig, 1891); [[Author:Toyokichi Iyenaga|Iyenaga]], “[[The Constitutional Development of Japan, 1853–1881|Constitutional Development of Japan]],” in ''Johns Hopkins University Studies'' (Baltimore, 1891); [[:fr:Auteur:Jules Layrle|Layrle]], ''La restauration impériale au Japon'' (Paris, 1893); [[Author:George Nathaniel Curzon|Curzon]], ''Problems of the Far East'' (London, 1894); {{SIC|[[Author:Arthur Diósy|Diosy]]|Diósy}}, ''The New Far East'' (New York, 1899); [[Author:Eugenio Zanoni Volpicelli|Vladimir]], ''The China-Japan War'' (New York, 1895); [[Author:Stafford Ransome|Ransome]], ''Japan in Transition'' (London, 1899); Tanaka Yudourou, ''La constitution de l’empire de Japon'' (Paris, 1900); [[Author:Henry Norman (1858-1939)|Norman]], ''The People and Politics of the Far East'' (2d ed., London, 1900).

{{sc|Religion.}} Humio Nanjo, ''Short History of the Twelve Japanese Buddhist Sects'' (Tokio, 1887); Fujishima, ''Le bouddhisme japanais'' (Paris, 1889); [[Author:George Augustus Cobbold|Cobbold]], ''Religion in Japan: Buddhism, Shintoism, Christianity'' (London, 1894); [[Author:Arthur Lloyd|Lloyd]], ''Developments of Japanese Buddhism'' (London, 1894); [[Author:William Elliot Griffis|Griffis]], ''Religions of Japan'' (New York, 1895); [[Author:Percival Lowell|Lowell]], ''The Soul of the East'' (Boston, 1888); id., ''[[Occult Japan]]'' (Boston, 1895); id., “Esoteric Shinto,” in the ''Transactions of the Asiatic Society of Japan'', vol. xxi. (Tokio, {{SIC|1843|1893}}); [[Author:Karl Adolf Florenz|Florenz]], ''Japanische Mythologie'' (Tokio, 1901); and in general, [[Author:Francis Ottiwell Adams|Adams]], ''History of Japan'' (London, 1874); [[Author:Percy Thorpe|Thorpe]], ''History of Japan'' (London, 1885); [[:fr:Auteur:Georges Appert|Appert]], ''Ancien Japon'' (Tokio, 1888); [[Author:Arthur May Knapp|Knapp]], ''Feudal and Modern Japan'' (London, 1897); [[:fr:Auteur:Antoine de La Mazelière|Mazelière]], ''Essai sur l’histoire de Japon'' (Paris, 1899); and the general works referred to in this bibliography under ''General; Descriptive''.

Other works on various subjects relating to Japan are: [[w:Heinrich Edmund Naumann|Naumann]], ''Ueber den Bau und die Entstehung der japanischen Inseln'' (Berlin, 1885); [[Author:James Dwight Dana|Dana]], ''Characteristics of Volcanoes'' (New York, 1890); [[Author:Edward Hull (1829-1917)|Hull]], ''Volcanoes Past and Present'' (New York, 1892); the ''Reports of the Imperial Geological Survey of Japan'', and the ''Transactions of the Seismological Society of Japan''; [[Author:Henry Seebohm|Seebohm]], ''Birds of the Japanese Empire'' (London, 1890); [[w:Max Fesca|Fesca]], ''Beiträge zur Kenntnis der japanischen Landwirtschaft'' (Berlin, 1890–93); [[Author:Francis Taylor Piggott|Piggott]], ''The Garden of Japan'' (London, 1892); [[Author:Charles Sprague Sargent|Sargent]], ''Notes on the Forest Flora of Japan'' (Boston, 1894); [[Author:Josiah Conder (1852-1920)|Conder]], ''Landscape Gardening in Japan'' (London, 1894); id., ''Floral Art of Japan'' (London, 1900). For the Ainos, see {{NIE article link|Aino|Aino, or Ainu}}.
&lt;section end=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;'''JAPANESE ART.''' The accepted date of the beginning of fine art in Japan is at the close of the seventh century of the Christian Era. The physical civilization of the country was then greatly advanced by intercourse with China and with Korea. The Japanese scholars have not shown any reluctance to admit the supreme influence of these continental nations upon their own insular arts. The earliest sculptures in stone or wood, and the earliest paintings, some of which are presented in temples and others in the Imperial Museum, show a knowledge of form and of the true value of design arguing an already advanced civilization: while there is no pretense that such a civilization had had time to develop itself in the islands of Japan. The earliest buildings known, such as the Pagoda of Yakushiji, near Nara, universally accepted as of the seventh century, are of a matured type, the beautiful curves of the roofs and the combination of the series of six of these, with the intermediate vertical walls and balconies, into a single design bespeaking an original type already very far advanced toward perfection. In sculpture, the bronze statuettes of these early years are as strongly Indian in character as the architecture is Chinese; but this is in great measure the result of Buddhist influence, and is nearly as visible in what little has been identified as Chinese art of the same epoch. The work in silver and bronze and in woven stuffs shows a sense of the true essence of decorative art such as the later and more splendid times could surpass only in variety and affluence. Thus the group of three Buddhist bronze figures in the Kakushiji temple, of which the tower or ‘pagoda’ is mentioned above, are undoubtedly of the seventh century, and their workmanship, and more especially the modeling of the nude parts, goes far to prove the introduction through India of that influenee of classical Greek art which is so often loosely assigned to the advance of any very early Asiatic school of sculpture. In whatever form it was that the invasion of Alexander the Great, or other active political or mercantile influence, brought to India some specimens of the matured art of Greece, it can hardly be supposed that this influence was absent from the early Japanese sculpture—so frankly based upon nature, and yet so traditionally noble is the statuary of the time in drapery as well as in the larger modeling of the undraped torso and limbs. The paintings of the time are of course more or less injured; but they bear all the marks of a strong and well-understood tradition, with the study of nature for its origin, and with unmistakable binding laws of design. In the eighth century statuary had become more realistic, and the ‘temple guardians,’ or heroic statues of demigods apparently of Brahmanistic Indian mythology, have a ferocious vigor and a large freedom of design which raise these works to the greatest height of artistic merit known to us among the free and representative sculptures of the Far East. It is evident that only at a later date was the strong tendency of Chino-Japanese art toward decorative uses well established. Down to the ninth or even to the tenth century it must have been still uncertain whether these arts would tend, as those of Europe had tended, toward a representative and expressional character, or whether they should reach forward, as they have done, to a decorative excellence accepted as the purpose of the art, and far excelling in variety and completeness that known to Europe.

There are in Japanese history and tradition certain well-marked periods of development and of change. The thirteenth century of the Christian Era marks one of these, during which period the manners of the wealthier and influential classes were, according to all accounts, more severe and deliberately removed from luxury than they had been, and much more than they were to be. Some of the most interesting and impressive pieces of Japanese sculpture belong to this epoch, and it is pleasant to trace a fancied connection between the comparative asceticism of the time and the severe design of these bronzes. Even the more realistic pieces—statuettes in which portraiture seems to be affected—are so severe in the casting of the draperies and so&lt;section end=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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        <username>Ekinonnakapito</username>
        <id>3162895</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>First full page edit</comment>
      <origin>15132132</origin>
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      <text bytes="7084" sha1="cvunh1du4xqkrybfi9wraf0co4or0gv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|HOHENLOHE.|135|HOHENSTEIN.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Hohenlohe&quot; /&gt;1854 to 1860, and was a general in the army of
Baden from 1862 to 1871. He has been a member of the Upper Chamber of Württemberg since
1860, and was elected its vice-president in 1893.
He was a member of the Imperial Reichstag
from 1871 to 1880, and acted with the Reichspartei. (See {{NIE article link|Political Parties, paragraph on Germany|Political Parties#Germany}}.) In 1894 he became Governor of
Alsace-Lorraine. He was the founder and president (1883–94) of the Deutsche Kolonialgesellschaft. He holds the military rank of general
of cavalry in the Prussian Army.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hohenlohe&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hohenstaufen&quot; /&gt;'''HOHENSTAUFEN,''' {{NIE key|ho′𝑒n - stou{{sm|′}}f𝑒n}}. A
princely house of Swabia, in Germany, which
held possession of the German Imperial throne
from 1138 to 1254. The family traced its descent
from Frederick of Büren, who lived about the
middle of the eleventh century, and whose son,
Frederick of Staufen, built the castle from which
the family derived its name, some vestiges of
which are still to be seen on the summit of the
Hohenstaufen, one of the peaks of the Rauhe
Alb, close to the town of Göppingen, Württemberg. The son, Frederick of Staufen, was a
faithful partisan of the Emperor Henry IV., and
in return received Henry’s daughter and the
Duchy of Swabia in 1079. Duke Frederick, at
his death in 1105, left two sons—Frederick II.,
the One-Eyed, and Conrad; the former was immediately confirmed in the possession of Swabia
by Henry V., and in 1112 the latter received the
Duchy of Franconia. Upon the death of Henry
V. in 1125 his family estates fell to the House of
Hohenstaufen. It seemed, too, as if the Imperial
dignity would be conferred upon Frederick on
account of his talents and popularity; but Lothair of Saxony, his rival and enemy, was elected
as Henry V.’s successor. On Lothair’s accession,
he demanded the Imperial possessions held by the
House of Hohenstaufen, and a war ensued between him and the Hohenstaufen princes, in
which Lothair was supported by the House of
Welf (Guelph). In the course of this struggle
Conrad was crowned King of Italy in 1128; but
the two brothers were forced to make peace with
Lothair in 1135, and afterwards lent him their
support. After Lothair’s death, Conrad was
elected King of Germany, in 1138, as {{NIE lkpl|Conrad III.|Conrad III.}} (q.v.). Under Conrad III. the House of Hohenstaufen waged war against the House of Guelph,
which for a brief time was weakened by the loss
of Bavaria.

On Conrad’s death, in 1152, his nephew, Frederick I. Barbarossa, became Emperor. As he was
the offspring of a Hohenstaufen father and a
Guelph mother, it was hoped that the struggle
between the two houses might be ended by his
accession. But the defiant attitude of Henry
the Lion, Duke of Saxony and Bavaria, the
powerful representative of the Guelph family,
caused the conflict to break out afresh in 1180.
Henry the Lion was conquered and deprived of
most of his possessions. Frederick went on the
Third Crusade, but died in 1190, before reaching
Jerusalem. His son, Henry VI., succeeded to the
throne without opposition. By a marriage with
the heiress of Sicily and by conquest he added
Southern Italy and Sicily to the Empire. He exercised the most far-reaching power of any of the
Hohenstaufen, and dreamed of a world-wide empire. Richard the Lion-Hearted of England was
obliged to become his vassal in order to be freed
from captivity. Some of the Christian rulers
in the East had sought protection from Henry,
and he sent an army to the Holy Land, ‘the
German Crusade’ (see {{NIE article link|Crusades}}) to establish his
own supremacy. His plans were frustrated by
his early death, in 1197. His son Frederick II.
had already been crowned King of Germany, but
as he was only a child of three, his rights were
passed over. The Guelphs chose Otho of Brunswick, son of Henry the Lion, and the choice of
the partisans of the Hohenstaufen fell upon
Philip of Swabia, uncle of Frederick II. Civil
war followed, the contest terminating with the
assassination of Philip in 1208 by Otho of Wittelsbach. For a time Otho of Brunswick (Otho
IV.) was recognized as ruler; then his opponents rallied about Frederick II., who in the
meanwhile had been ruling his Kingdom of
Sicily, which he had inherited from his mother.
Frederick was crowned, and by 1215 was recognized by all except a few obstinate partisans of
Otho IV. He ruled over Germany, Italy, and
Sicily, and also became King of Jerusalem.
His reign was spent to a great extent in a struggle with the Papacy. The partisans of the Hohenstaufen in Italy and the opponents of the Imperial power, in general the supporters of the
Papacy, were known respectively as Ghibellines
and Guelphs. (See {{NIE article link|Guelphs And Ghibellines}}.)
After Frederick’s death, in 1250, the inveterate
animosity of the Guelphs followed his son, Conrad IV., who abandoned Germany for his hereditary Italian possessions, and died in 1254.
After Conrad’s death his half-brother Manfred
fought for the Hohenstaufen interests until he
was defeated and killed at the battle of Benevento, in 1266, against Charles of Anjou, who
at the invitation of the Pope, had undertaken the
conquest of the Two Sicilies. Manfred’s sons were
kept in prison until his death. His daughter
married Peter III. of Aragon, who later avenged
the destruction of the Hohenstaufen by expelling
their foes from the Kingdom of Sicily. Conrad’s
young son, Conradin, in an attempt to reconquer
the Two Sicilies, was taken captive by Charles of
Anjou at the battle of Tagliacozzo, and executed
at Naples on October 29, 1268. Enzio, an illegitimate son of Frederick II., who had been made
King of Sardinia, died in prison four years later.
Thus all of the male descendants of Frederick
II. perished. The emperors of this family rank
among the ablest rulers of Germany, and hold
the first place in popular German tradition today, just as they held the first place in the
affections of the people during their lifetime.
They appear in general as men possessed of great
virtues and of great faults, and impressive by
reason of both. Frederick Barbarossa, according
to the legend, is not dead, but asleep, and will
wake to help his people in time of need.
Frederick II. is one of the most remarkable
figures of the Middle Ages in his character as
ruler, knight, scholar, and free-thinker. Consult
Raumer, ''Geschichte der Hohenstaufen'' (5th ed.,
Leipzig, 1878). See, also, articles on the individual emperors.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hohenstaufen&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hohenstein&quot; /&gt;'''HOHENSTEIN,''' {{NIE key|ho′𝑒n-stīn}}. A manufacturing town in the Kingdom of Saxony, 12 miles
northeast of Zwickau ({{NIE lkpl|Prussia#Map of Prussia|Map: Prussia}}, E&amp;nbsp;3). It
produces chiefly textiles and knit goods; in the
neighborhood are mines of sulphur, arsenic, and
gold. Population, in 1890. 7546; in 1900 (with
the neighboring town of Ernstthal annexed in
1898), 13,397.
&lt;section end=&quot;Hohenstein&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cvunh1du4xqkrybfi9wraf0co4or0gv</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 10.djvu/158</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3115598</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132336</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:46:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ekinonnakapito</username>
        <id>3162895</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Start of edit</comment>
      <origin>15132336</origin>
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      <text bytes="6994" sha1="m28zqb612wg4xzyvsmg9k5js3vx9bwk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|HOHENWART.|136|HOHENZOLLERN.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Hohenwart, Karl, Count&quot; /&gt;'''HOHENWART,''' {{NIE key|hō′𝑒n-värt}}, {{sc|Karl}}, Count
(1824–99). An Austrian statesman, leader of the
Federalist party. In 1868 he became Governor
of Upper Austria, and three years afterwards
succeeded Potocki as president of the Ministry.
In his Cabinet he held the portfolio of the Interior. His federalist policy met with such opposition on the part of the Hungarian Ministry and
the German Liberals that he was forced to resign
after holding office for less than a year. He
was elected to the Lower House in 1873, and
became a leader of the Right Centre. In 1885
Hohenwart was appointed president of the Supreme Court of Accounts, and in 1891 he formed
the Hohenwart Club, consisting of German Conservatives, Slovenes, Croatians, and Rumans,
as well as the great landed proprietors of Bohemia. But this party broke in 1895, through
the defection of the German members, and in
1897, on the appointment of its leader to the
House of Lords, it disintegrated entirely.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hohenwart, Karl, Count&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hohenzollern&quot; /&gt;'''HOHENZOLLERN,''' {{NIE key|hō′𝑒n-tsō̇l{{sm|′}}lērn}}. A province of Prussia, consisting of a narrow strip of
land entirely surrounded by Württemberg and
Baden, and covering, together with its nine exclaves, an area of about 440 square miles ({{NIE lkpl|Prussia#Map of Prussia|Map: Prussia}}, C&amp;nbsp;4). It extends from the Neckar in
the northwest to the vicinity of Lake Constance.
It is divided by the Rauhe Alb, which rises in
places to 3000 feet. The Danube crosses the
province, which is well watered. The mountain
valleys are productive, and yield grain, fruit,
hops, etc. The Alb chain yields some iron, and in
other mountains some deposits of rock salt are
found. Mineral springs abound. Some manufacturing is done in the way of cotton-spinning,
the production of iron of superior quality, etc.
Administratively the province is divided into
the four districts of Sigmaringen, Gammertingen, Haigerloch, and Hechingen. Since 1873
it has had a Landtag sitting at Sigmaringen.
It sends one Deputy to the Reichstag. The population numbered, in 1900, 66.783. The inhabitants
are nearly all Roman Catholics, and the province
forms a dependency of the Archbishop of Freiburg. On a steep eminence near Hechingen
stands the magnificent Castle of Hohenzollern,
erected in the second half of the nineteenth century, in the style of the fourteenth century, on
the ruins of the mediæval stronghold, the cradle
of the reigning Hohenzollern dynasty of Prussia.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hohenzollern&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hohenzollern (royal house)&quot; /&gt;'''HOHENZOLLERN.''' The family name of the
royal house of Prussia, in which has been vested
also, since January 18, 1871, the dignity of
German Emperor. The name is derived from the
ancestral Castle Zollern, or Hohenzollern, in
Swabia (see preceding article). The origin of
the house is involved in obscurity, and the story
of its descent from Count Thassilo, a Swabian
noble of the time of Charles the Great, is a
fiction of the sixteenth century. The family
name occurs as early as the eleventh century
in the persons of Burchard and Wezel of Zolre,
who were killed in 1061, but whether there is
any relationship between these and the succeeding Hohenzollern family is
a matter of doubt. The House of Hohenzollern occupied a
prominent position among the petty princely
families of Swabia as early as the first half of
the twelfth century, and at the close of that
century we find Count Frederick of Zolre invested with the Burggraviate of Nuremberg, an
Imperial office, which descended to his posterity.
His sons, Frederick and Conrad, divided the
possessions of the house in 1227, founding the
Swabian and Franconian lines. From the close
of the sixteenth century the elder or Swabian
branch of the House of Hohenzollern existed in
the two lines of Hohenzollern-Hechingen and
Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. In 1695 a pact of
inheritance was made between these branches
and that of Brandenburg (see below). In 1821
a new covenant was drawn up and confirmed
by the King of Prussia, as head of the Hohenzollern family, by which it was provided that in
case of failure of male issue in either line possession should pass to the other, and on the extinction of both lines should vest in the royal
family of Prussia. But before the prospect of
extinction presented itself the princes of Hohenzollern-Hechingen and Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, after the commotions of the revolutionary
year 1848, decided to abdicate in favor of the
King of Prussia. The act of renunciation took


place at the close of 1849, and in accordance with
the covenant of 1821 the King of Prussia took
possession of the two principalities in the following year, the two princes being given annual
pensions. Leopold of Hohenzollern, the prince
who was offered the crown of Spain in 1870,
was the eldest son of the last ruler of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. The second son, Charles,
became Prince and King of Rumania.
The great destiny of the family was reserved
for the cadet branch, the Franconian line. They
attached themselves to the Hohenstaufen until
that great house became extinct, when they gave
their support to Rudolph of Hapsburg. During
the civil war which followed the double election
of 1314 they sided with Louis of Bavaria against
the House of Austria, but subsequently they became once more faithful supporters of the Hapsburgs. Acquisitiveness and a capacity to hold
what was once obtained and to administer it with
thrift seem to have characterized to a greater or
less degree all the Franconian Hohenzollern
princes. From the founder of the line, Conrad III.
(died 1261), there was a steady gain in territory
and influence under Frederick III. (1261–97),
Frederick IV. (1297–1332), John II. (1332–57),
and Frederick V. (1357–98). The possessions of
the house, in which was vested the Burggraviate
of Nuremberg, were constituted into the two margraviates of Bayreuth (originally Culmbach)
and Anspach. The sons of Frederick V., John
III. and Frederick VI., possessed respectively
Bayreuth and Anspach, the latter inheriting his
brother’s possessions in 1420. Frederick VI. in
1411 received the Margraviate of Brandenburg
as a pledge for a loan to the Emperor Sigismund,
and in 1415 it was granted to him as an hereditary possession, together with the dignity of
Elector. This was the foundation of the real
greatness of the House of Hohenzollern.
The Elector Albert Achilles of Brandenburg by
the so-called Dispositio Achillea of 1473 decreed
that the Franconian margraviates (Anspach and
Bayreuth) should be separated from Brandenburg and ruled as secundogenitures. The last
Margrave of Bayreuth died in 1769, when the
State was united with Anspach. In 1791 the
Margrave of Anspach and Bayreuth sold his
principalities to Prussia, which, however, retained them only a few years.
&lt;section end=&quot;Hohenzollern (royal house)&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133510</id>
      <parentid>15132336</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T06:25:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ekinonnakapito</username>
        <id>3162895</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>First full page edit</comment>
      <origin>15133510</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6998" sha1="d08nz2iyjsyeqbl1lbnv7sbesqlh5bc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|HOHENWART.|136|HOHENZOLLERN.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Hohenwart, Karl, Count&quot; /&gt;'''HOHENWART,''' {{NIE key|hō′𝑒n-värt}}, {{sc|Karl}}, Count
(1824–99). An Austrian statesman, leader of the
Federalist party. In 1868 he became Governor
of Upper Austria, and three years afterwards
succeeded Potocki as president of the Ministry.
In his Cabinet he held the portfolio of the Interior. His federalist policy met with such opposition on the part of the Hungarian Ministry and
the German Liberals that he was forced to resign
after holding office for less than a year. He
was elected to the Lower House in 1873, and
became a leader of the Right Centre. In 1885
Hohenwart was appointed president of the Supreme Court of Accounts, and in 1891 he formed
the Hohenwart Club, consisting of German Conservatives, Slovenes, Croatians, and Rumans,
as well as the great landed proprietors of Bohemia. But this party broke in 1895, through
the defection of the German members, and in
1897, on the appointment of its leader to the
House of Lords, it disintegrated entirely.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hohenwart, Karl, Count&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hohenzollern&quot; /&gt;'''HOHENZOLLERN,''' {{NIE key|hō′𝑒n-tsō̇l{{sm|′}}lērn}}. A province of Prussia, consisting of a narrow strip of
land entirely surrounded by Württemberg and
Baden, and covering, together with its nine exclaves, an area of about 440 square miles ({{NIE lkpl|Prussia#Map of Prussia|Map: Prussia}}, C&amp;nbsp;4). It extends from the Neckar in
the northwest to the vicinity of Lake Constance.
It is divided by the Rauhe Alb, which rises in
places to 3000 feet. The Danube crosses the
province, which is well watered. The mountain
valleys are productive, and yield grain, fruit,
hops, etc. The Alb chain yields some iron, and in
other mountains some deposits of rock salt are
found. Mineral springs abound. Some manufacturing is done in the way of cotton-spinning,
the production of iron of superior quality, etc.
Administratively the province is divided into
the four districts of Sigmaringen, Gammertingen, Haigerloch, and Hechingen. Since 1873
it has had a Landtag sitting at Sigmaringen.
It sends one Deputy to the Reichstag. The population numbered, in 1900, 66.783. The inhabitants
are nearly all Roman Catholics, and the province
forms a dependency of the Archbishop of Freiburg. On a steep eminence near Hechingen
stands the magnificent Castle of Hohenzollern,
erected in the second half of the nineteenth century, in the style of the fourteenth century, on
the ruins of the mediæval stronghold, the cradle
of the reigning Hohenzollern dynasty of Prussia.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hohenzollern&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hohenzollern (royal house)&quot; /&gt;'''HOHENZOLLERN.''' The family name of the
royal house of Prussia, in which has been vested
also, since January 18, 1871, the dignity of
German Emperor. The name is derived from the
ancestral Castle Zollern, or Hohenzollern, in
Swabia (see preceding article). The origin of
the house is involved in obscurity, and the story
of its descent from Count Thassilo, a Swabian
noble of the time of Charles the Great, is a
fiction of the sixteenth century. The family
name occurs as early as the eleventh century
in the persons of Burchard and Wezel of Zolre,
who were killed in 1061, but whether there is
any relationship between these and the succeeding Hohenzollern family is
a matter of doubt. The House of Hohenzollern occupied a
prominent position among the petty princely
families of Swabia as early as the first half of
the twelfth century, and at the close of that
century we find Count Frederick of Zolre invested with the Burggraviate of Nuremberg, an
Imperial office, which descended to his posterity.
His sons, Frederick and Conrad, divided the
possessions of the house in 1227, founding the
Swabian and Franconian lines. From the close
of the sixteenth century the elder or Swabian
branch of the House of Hohenzollern existed in
the two lines of Hohenzollern-Hechingen and
Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. In 1695 a pact of
inheritance was made between these branches
and that of Brandenburg (see below). In 1821
a new covenant was drawn up and confirmed
by the King of Prussia, as head of the Hohenzollern family, by which it was provided that in
case of failure of male issue in either line possession should pass to the other, and on the extinction of both lines should vest in the royal
family of Prussia. But before the prospect of
extinction presented itself the princes of Hohenzollern-Hechingen and Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, after the commotions of the revolutionary
year 1848, decided to abdicate in favor of the
King of Prussia. The act of renunciation took
place at the close of 1849, and in accordance with
the covenant of 1821 the King of Prussia took
possession of the two principalities in the following year, the two princes being given annual
pensions. Leopold of Hohenzollern, the prince
who was offered the crown of Spain in 1870,
was the eldest son of the last ruler of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. The second son, Charles,
became Prince and King of Rumania.

The great destiny of the family was reserved
for the cadet branch, the Franconian line. They
attached themselves to the Hohenstaufen until
that great house became extinct, when they gave
their support to Rudolph of Hapsburg. During
the civil war which followed the double election
of 1314 they sided with Louis of Bavaria against
the House of Austria, but subsequently they became once more faithful supporters of the Hapsburgs. Acquisitiveness and a capacity to hold
what was once obtained and to administer it with
thrift seem to have characterized to a greater or
less degree all the Franconian Hohenzollern
princes. From the founder of the line, Conrad III.
(died 1261), there was a steady gain in territory
and influence under Frederick III. (1261–97),
Frederick IV. (1297–1332), John II. (1332–57),
and Frederick V. (1357–98). The possessions of
the house, in which was vested the Burggraviate
of Nuremberg, were constituted into the two margraviates of Bayreuth (originally Culmbach)
and Anspach. The sons of Frederick V., John
III. and Frederick VI., possessed respectively
Bayreuth and Anspach, the latter inheriting his
brother’s possessions in 1420. Frederick VI. in
1411 received the Margraviate of Brandenburg
as a pledge for a loan to the Emperor Sigismund,
and in 1415 it was granted to him as an hereditary possession, together with the dignity of
Elector. This was the foundation of the real
greatness of the House of Hohenzollern.

The Elector Albert Achilles of Brandenburg by
the so-called ''Dispositio Achillea'' of 1473 decreed
that the Franconian margraviates (Anspach and
Bayreuth) should be separated from Brandenburg and ruled as secundogenitures. The last
Margrave of Bayreuth died in 1769, when the
State was united with Anspach. In 1791 the
Margrave of Anspach and Bayreuth sold his
principalities to Prussia, which, however, retained them only a few years.
&lt;section end=&quot;Hohenzollern (royal house)&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 10.djvu/159</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3115599</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133633</id>
      <parentid>14507539</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:05:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ekinonnakapito</username>
        <id>3162895</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>First full page edit</comment>
      <origin>15133633</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8378" sha1="geqaebxigpnhkq2xcnq5c863opl8649" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|HOHENZOLLERN.|137|HOKUSAI.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Hohenzollern (royal house)&quot; /&gt;The electors of Brandenburg were as follows:
{|{{ts|sm}}
|Frederick I. (the Frederick VI. mentioned above).
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1415–1440)
|-
|Frederick II.
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1440–1470)
|-
|Albert Achilles
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1470–1486)
|-
|John Cicero
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1486–1499)
|-
|Joachim I. Nestor
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1499–1535)
|-
|Joachim II. Hector
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1535–1571)
|-
|John George
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1571–1598)
|-
|Joachim Frederick
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1598–1608)
|-
|John Sigismund
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1608–1619)
|-
|George William
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1619–1640)
|-
|Frederick William, the Great Elector
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1640–1688)
|-
|colspan=2|Frederick III.{{spaces|3|em}}(1688–1713) after 1701, King Frederick I. of Prussia
|}
The Hohenzollern kings of Prussia since Frederick I. have been as follows:
{| {{ts|sm}}
|Frederick William I.
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1713–1740)
|-
|Frederick II. the Great.
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1740–1786)
|-
|Frederick William II..
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1786–1797)
|-
|Frederick William III
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1797–1840)
|-
|Frederick William IV...
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1840–1861)
|-
|William I.
|colspan=2|{{spaces|2|em}}(1861–1888), after 1871, German Emperor
|-
|Frederick III..
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1888)
|-
|William II
|{{ts|ar}}|{{spaces|2|em}}(1888–)
|}
The history of the Hohenzollern family from
the fifteenth century is that of {{NIE article link|Brandenburg}},
{{NIE article link|Prussia}}, and {{NIE article link|Germany}}. Consult: Stillfried
Alcantara and Kugler, ''Die Hohenzollern und das deutsche Vaterland'' (Munich, 1881), a well-ordered account, dedicated to Emperor William I.,
and presumably having a semi-official standing;
Waddington, ''L’acquisition de la couronne royale de Prusse par les Hohenzollern'' (Paris, 1888), a
valuable study of Hohenzollern history in the
seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, with many
documents; Berner, ''Die Abstammung und älteste Genealogie der Hohenzollern'' (Berlin, 1893);
Seidel, ''Hohenzollern-Jahrbuch, Forschungen zur
Geschichte der Hohenzollern in Brandenburg-Preussen'' (Leipzig, 1897 et seq.); Tuttle, ''History of Prussia'' (Boston, 1884–96), one of the best
products of American historical scholarship, cut
short at 1757 by the death of the author.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hohenzollern (royal house)&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Höhnel, Ludwig von&quot; /&gt;'''HÖHNEL,''' {{NIE key|hẽ′n𝑒l}}, {{sc|Ludwig von}} (1857–).
An Austrian explorer, born at Pressburg and
educated at the Naval Academy of Fiume. In
1887 he accompanied Count Teleki in the journey
from Zanzibar, on which lakes Rudolph and
Stephanie were discovered, and a large area, before unknown, carefully plotted on Höhnel’s
maps. The expeditions proved the connection
between the Abyssinian plateau and the Rand.
Lieutenant Höhnel described the results of his
journey in his book, ''Zum Rudolfsee und Stefaniesee'' (1892). In 1892–93 he explored with an
American traveler, {{NIE lkpl|Chanler, William Astor|William Astor Chanler}} (q.v.),
the country between the rivers Tana and Juba.
Consult Chanler, ''Through Jungle and Desert''
(New York, 1896).

&lt;section end=&quot;Höhnel, Ludwig von&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Höhscheid&quot; /&gt;'''HÖHSCHEID,''' {{NIE key|hẽ′shīt}}. A town of the Prussian Rhine Province, situated on the Wupper,
17 miles east-southeast of Düsseldorf ({{NIE lkpl|Prussia#Map of Prussia|Map: Prussia}}, B&amp;nbsp;3). It has extensive manufactures
of steel products and machinery. Population,
in 1890, 12,593; in 1900, 14,172.

&lt;section end=&quot;Höhscheid&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hoi-How&quot; /&gt;'''HOI-HOW,''' {{NIE key|hoi′hou′.}} The seaport of
{{NIE lkpl|Kiung-chow|Kiung-chow}} (q.v.).

&lt;section end=&quot;Hoi-How&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hojéda, Alonso de&quot; /&gt;'''HOJÉDA,''' {{NIE key|ō̇-ʜā′ᴅȧ}} {{sc|Alonso de}}. See {{NIE article link|Ojéda|Ojeda, Alonso de}}.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hojéda, Alonso de&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hōjō&quot; /&gt;'''HŌJŌ,''' {{NIE key|hō′jō̇}}. The name of five towns in Japan,
from one of which, in {{NIE lkpl|Idzu|Idzu}} (q.v.), arose the celebrated family of regents known as the Hōjō,
which, during the era of the puppet Shoguns at
Kamakura ({{asc|A.D.}} 1219–1333), ruled the Empire.
During their régime Buddhism developed rapidly,
and the Mongol invaders under Kublai Khan
were driven off and their armada destroyed. The
Hōjō were overthrown by one Nitta Yoshisada in
1333. Consult: Griffis, ''The Mikado’s Empire''
(New York, 1900); Adams, ''History of Japan'', vol i. (London, 1884); Brinkley, ''Japan, Its History, Arts, and Literature'' (Boston, 1901–02).

&lt;section end=&quot;Hōjō&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hokitika&quot; /&gt;'''HOKITIKA,''' hō kế-tēka. The capital of West land County, on the northwest coast of South
Island, New Zealand ({{NIE lkpl|New Zealand#Map of New Zealnd|Map: New Zealand}}, C&amp;nbsp;5).
It lies 24 miles southwest of Greymouth, with
which and with Nelson it is connected by rail.
It has thriving agricultural industries, while
gold-mining, formerly of great importance, is
still carried on. Population, in 1901, 1951.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hokitika&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hokkaido&quot; /&gt;'''HOKKAIDO,''' {{NIE key|hō̇k′kī{{sm|′}}dō̇}}. See {{NIE article link|Yezo}}.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hokkaido&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hok-kien&quot; /&gt;'''HOK-KIEN,''' {{NIE key|hō̇k{{sm|′}}kē̇-ĕn′}}. See {{NIE article link|Fu-kien}}.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hok-kien&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Ho-kow&quot; /&gt;'''HO-KOW,''' {{NIE key|hō{{sm|′}}kou′}}. The name of a number of
towns in China, the most important of which are
the following: (1) A town in the Province of
Kiang-si, on the right bank of the Poyang-hu
Lake, opposite Kiu-kiang ({{NIE lkpl|China#Map of China|Map: China}}, E&amp;nbsp;6).
It has an extensive trade in black tea. Estimated
population, 300,000. (2) A treaty port in the
northern part of the Province of Yun-nan, on the
left bank of the Red River, nearly opposite Laokai in Tongking, with which it is connected by
a suspension bridge, completed in 1900. It has
about 4000 inhabitants and was opened for foreign trade in accordance with the supplementary
convention between China and France of June
20, 1895. The trade is as yet insignificant. (3) A
small town in the northern part of the Province
of Shan-si, at the confluence of the Hei-shui and
the Hoang-ho. It lies near the beginning of the
highway to Peking and has important soda-works.

&lt;section end=&quot;Ho-kow&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hokusai&quot; /&gt;'''HOKUSAI,''' {{NIE key|hōk′o͞o-sī }} (1760–1849). A noted
Japanese artist. He was born at Honjo, in
Yedo (now Tokio), son of an artisan named
Nakashima Ise, a maker of metal mirrors in the
employ of the Shogun of the time. Little is
known of his life beyond what he himself tells
in the prefaces to his numerous works. At thirteen he left home and apprenticed himself to an
engraver. Five years afterwards he gave up engraving to study with Shunsho, the most noted
designer of the time, but was expelled in 1786
for persistently indulging in a style that was
displeasing to his master. He tried to make a
living by illustrating comic books, but not
meeting with success, he became a peddler,
continuing to draw and paint as he had opportunity. In order to attract attention and raise
money, he in 1804 exhibited his dexterity by
painting in public a colored figure of a Buddhist
saint on a sheet of paper 18 yards long and 11
yards wide, using brooms for brushes and buckets
to hold his liquid India ink. Three years later
he became associated with Bakin, the novelist,
and collaborated with him in illustrating a work
translated from the Chinese by Bakin, and containing 108 portraits of Chinese heroes. This appeared in 1828. His connection with Bakin
lasted only four years, and he was again adrift.
His public career really did not begin until 1810,
when he became an industrial artist and a teacher
of drawing. Pupils flocked to him in numbers
so great that he could not supply them with
original drawings of his own as models, so he
began wood-engraving in order to furnish the
needed number. In this way his ''Mangwa'', or album of “Ten Thousand Sketches,” took form, and
&lt;section end=&quot;Hokusai&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 10.djvu/160</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3115601</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133689</id>
      <parentid>13612813</parentid>
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        <username>Ekinonnakapito</username>
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      <comment>First full page edit</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7284" sha1="dvvsc69r8k07txlezsn7ly0d2mijarp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|HOKUSAI.|138|HOLARCTIC REGION.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Hokusai&quot; /&gt;his fame spread as volume after volume and edition after edition appeared. The later volumes
of this series appeared in 1836, a year after his
''Fugakū Hiyakūkei'', or ''Fuji Hiakke'' (“A Hundred
Views of Fujisan”). His industry was great,
and his works numerous. Thirty thousand drawings of his have been counted up, yet he was
always in poverty. He died April 13 (some say
May 10), 1849, at Asakusa, a district of Yedo.
Money for his funeral was provided by his pupils
and admirers.

Hokusai was a man of the people to the end.
He never rose above his class, and never made
any attempt to do so. His talent lay in producing ''Ukio-ye'' (‘pictures of this passing world’),
free from the conventionalities of his predecessors and his contemporaries. His influence on
modern art has been very great. His whole life
was spent in perfecting himself; yet when he
came to die his last words were, “If Heaven
would only grant me ten more years!” and a moment later, &quot;If Heaven had only granted me five
years more, I could have been a thorough artist.&quot;
His signatures were numerous. In 1798 he appears under the name of ‘Sori;’ in the following
year he changed this to ‘Sori, who has changed
his name to Hokusai.’ In 1800 he called himself
simply ‘Hokusai’ (‘North Studio’). A favorite
signature was Hokusai Gwa-Kio Rojin' (‘Hokusai,
the old man crazy about drawing’). His latest
name was 'Manji (the Swastika), and the inscription over his grave is the one he preferred—‘Manji Gwa-Kio Rojin.’ A full list of his works
(with a bibliography) is in Anderson’s ''Descriptive and Historical Catalogue of Chinese and Japanese Art'' (London, 1886).

{{sc|Bibliography}}. ''Hokusai'', a paper read by John
La Farge before the Century Club (New York,
1897); Holmes, ''Hokusai'' (London, 1899); Fenollosa, ''Hokusai and His School'' (Boston, 1893);
Anderson, ''History of Japanese Art'' (London,
1886); and ''Fuji Hiakke'' (“A Hundred Views of
Fujisan”) (London, 1880). Consult also Brinkley, ''Japan: Its History, Arts, and Literature''
(Boston, 1901–02).

&lt;section end=&quot;Hokusai&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Hol, Richard&quot; /&gt;'''HOL,''' {{sc|Richard}} (1825–1904). A widely known
Dutch pianist, organist, and composer, born at
Amsterdam. A brilliant exponent of the modern
romantic German school, he received many decorations and foreign orders for his services to the
cause of music. In 1856 he was director of the
Amstels Männerchor; 1857, director of the
Society for the Promotion of Music; 1862, city
musical director of Utrecht; 1869, cathedral
organist; 1875, director of the School of Music.
Hol was perhaps better known in America as a
composer of part songs for male or female voices.
His compositions include an oratorio, two operas,
two symphonies masses, songs, chamber music,
orchestral music, etc. His male choral works
are standard with the leading men’s choruses.

&lt;section end=&quot;Hol, Richard&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Holabird, Samuel Beckley&quot; /&gt;'''HOL′ABIRD,''' {{sc|Samuel Beckley}} (1826–).
An American soldier, born in Canaan. Conn. He
graduated at West Point in 1849, served with
the army of the Potomac (1861–62), and became
brigadier and quartermaster general (1883), as
well as translator for the army. His chief translation was General Jomini’s ''Treatise on the Grand Military Operations of Frederick the Great'' (1865).

&lt;section end=&quot;Holabird, Samuel Beckley&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Holarctic Region&quot; /&gt;'''HOLARCTIC REGION''' (from Gk. {{Greek|ὅλος}}, ''holos'',
entire + {{Greek|ἀρκτικός}}, ''arktikos'', northern, from {{Greek|ἄρκτος}}, ''arktos'', bear). A division in zoögeography,
defined in two senses: (1) ''Arctogæa''. In the
larger sense the term is used, unhappily, as a
synonym for ‘Arctogæa.’ (See {{NIE article link|Distribution of Animals}} and {{NIE article link|Notogæa}}.) This ‘region’ embraces
all of the Northern Hemisphere except the hot
coast regions of Central America, all of Africa
and Madagascar, and an indefinite extent of the
Malayan and Polynesian islands, where its boundaries vary in different classes of animals; in
other words, it is a combination of the Nearctic, Palæarctic, Palæotropical, and Oriental regions of Sclater and Wallace, as opposed to the
combined Neotropical and Australasian regions
(Notogæa). The fundamental difference between
Arctogæa and Notogæa reaches back to an early
geological period, while many of the present distinctions between their subdivisions disappear
when traced back to the Tertiary, when the distribution of animal life was very different from
now. It is this broad historical view, rather than
the modern aspect, which has led naturalists to
the generalizations of Arctogæa and Notogæa.
Limiting the comparison to vertebrate animals,
the characteristics of Arctogæa are in outline as
follows: Among fishes, the perches, carps, salmons, and sturgeons are present as whole tribes,
together with many lesser groups, especially of
fresh-water or coast fishes, while the lungfishes
are conspicuous absentees. In the class Amphibia,
the line is drawn at the frog family Cystignathidæ, which is entirely Arctogæan. Gadow also
points out the predominance of Arcifera, which
constitute nine-tenths of the anurous population,
and are hardly represented in Notogæa. Of turtles, the presence of Trionychoidea and the absence of Chelydidæ are distinctive. Of lizards,
exclusively Arctogæal groups are the Lacertidæ,
Zomoridæ, Gerrhosauridæ, and Aniellidæ. Among
the snakes, the viper family is entirely Arctogæal,
and the crotaline tribe mainly so.
Lesser exclusive groups are the Uropeltidæ, Xenopeltidæ, and
many genera. Ornithological distinctions may
be most easily sketched by saying that Arctogæa
possesses no emus or cassowaries; no mound-birds,
birds of paradise, lyre-birds, cockatoos, tinamous,
curassows, hoactzins, toucans, cotingas, or many
others, although it is rich in game birds, finches,
woodpeckers, wood-warblers, and the like. But
perhaps the most striking difference is the presence of the large Arctic tribe of auks, and the
like, and the absence of penguins. Among mammals, also, the most notable feature is the entire
absence of edentates, of monotremes, of marsupials (except one opossum), of cebine monkeys,
and of marmosets. The northern region, however,
has the lemurs, the insectivores except the West
Indian Solenodon, the elephants, rhinoceroses, hyraces, horses, deer, giraffes, bovines, hyenas, hares,
and a variety of other important families; it is,
in fact, as Beddard points out, the headquarters of
all the Eutheria except edentates and marsupials.

(2) ''Holarctic'', or ''Periarctic'', ''Province''. In a
more restricted and perhaps more usual sense,
the term ‘holarctic’ in zoögeography denotes a
circumpolar district formed by the union of the
Palæarctic and Nearctic provinces of Sclater
and Wallace, elsewhere described. It was long
ago felt that the faunal characteristics of North
America and the northern part of the Old World
were not sufficiently distinct to justify their
separation into two provinces.
Their union under one name was first made by A. Heilprin,
&lt;section end=&quot;Holarctic Region&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="7256" sha1="tnovx73ketlria8l4uvkoglu9vz15vn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|HOLARCTIC REGION.|139|HOLBEIN.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Holarctic Region&quot; /&gt;who proposed ‘Triarctic’ as the new designation.
For this A. Newton suggested the substitution
of ‘Holarctic,’ which Heilprin at once adopted.
More recently Gadow has used ‘Periarctic’ as a
synonym, on the ground that it is more precise.
Its faunal characteristics are those sketched
in the first paragraph, with the omission of such
forms as are exclusively Ethiopian (Africa, south
of the Sahara) or Oriental (the Asiatic coast
and islands south of the Himalayan watershed).
The faunal agreement between North America and
the northern part of the Old World is greater
than any differences. There are few families
not represented in both, and the distinctive animals are mainly local genera or species, while
a great many apparently identical forms occur
on both continents, having a circumpolar distribution due either to their powers of travel or
to ancient land connections. Consult: Heilprin,
''Geographical and Geological Distribution of Animals'' (New York, 1887); Newton, ''Dictionary of Birds'' (New York, 1896); and the authorities
referred to under {{NIE article link|Distribution of Animals}}. See
also {{NIE article link|Nearctic Region}}; {{NIE article link|Palearctic Region}}.

hav

&lt;section end=&quot;Holarctic Region&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Holbach, Paul Henri Thyry n’, Baron&quot; /&gt;'''HOLBACH,''' ôl bäg, {{sc|Paul Henri Thyry D'}},
Baron (1723–89). A French philosopher of the
eighteenth century, and one of the Encyclopædists. (See {{NIE article link|Encyclopédie}}.) He was born
of wealthy parents, at Heidelsheim, in the
Palatinate, in 1723. At an early age he went
to Paris, where he continued to reside during
the remainder of his life. As Holbach was remarkable for his agreeable social qualities, and
kept a good table, the most eminent thinkers and
writers of the day, such as Condorcet, Diderot,
Duclos, Helvétius, Raynal, Rousseau, Buffon, etc.,
were in the habit of assembling at his house. The
witty Abbé Galiani called Holbach the ''maître
d’hôtel'' of philosophy. Here speculation, it is
said, was carried to such daring lengths that
Buffon, D’Alembert, and Rousseau were compelled to withdraw from the circle. Holbach
was the zealous champion of naturalism, and
contended not only against Christianity, but
against all positive religion. His principal
work, the ''Système de la nature'' (published
anonymously in 1770), has been called the “Bible
of Naturalism.” In this work the author endeavors to expound the principles of morality
upon a sensualistic, materialistic, deterministic,
egoistic, and atheistic basis. For him God is
only an ideal being, created by kings and priests.
The work is in no sense original, but gives
voice to the materialism of the French philosophes of the eighteenth century, which is nowhere more openly advocated than in the writings
of Holbach. He was a man of good heart, and, in
spite of his theory, of most unselfish benevolence.
When the Jesuits fell into disgrace during the
reign of Louis XV., Holbach, though he hated
their system and had written against them in
the days of their prosperity, made his house an
asylum for his old foes when the clouds gathered
around them. Many anonymous works besides the
''Système'' have been attributed to Holbach. Consult: Avezac-Lavigne, ''Diderot et la société dubaron d’Holbach'' (Paris, 1878); Morley, &quot;Three
Works of the Eighteenth Century Century, I. Holbach’s
System of Nature,&quot; in ''Fortnightly Review'' (London, 1877); id., ''Diderot and the Encyclopædists''
(London, 1878; 2d ed. 1886).

&lt;section end=&quot;Holbach, Paul Henri Thyry n’, Baron&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Holbein, Hans&quot; /&gt;'''HOLBEIN,''' hol bin, Hans, the Elder (c. 1460–1524). A noted German painter, whose reputation was for a long time overshadowed by that
of his celebrated son, Hans the Younger, to whom
most of the elder master’s finest productions were
formerly attributed. But little is known of his
life. He was born at Augsburg, the son of the
tanner Michael Holbein, and resided there at intervals for many years, alternately prosperous and
in want, first mentioned in the rate-books of the
city in 1494. He became a citizen of Ulm in
1499, and two years later visited Frankfort. After
1516 he lived at a short distance from Augsburg,
and in 1517 wandered off to paint an altarpiece
at Isenheim, in Alsace, where he died. The name
of his master is not known: that he worked for
some time in the studio of Martin Schongauer at
Colmar is a mere surmise suggested by a certain
resemblance of style, especially in the types of
his heads. Undoubtedly Holbein formed his style
on the models of the early Flemish school, and
subsequently modified it by yielding to local tradition and Italian influences. In his early pictures slender figures, mild and regular features,
staidness of attitude, and a clear transparency
of tone unrelieved by depth of shadow, are the
prevailing characteristics. To this class belong
the “Virgin and Child, with Two Angels,” in
Sankt Moritz Chapel, Nuremberg, and a “Virgin
and Child Enthroned, with Angels,” in the Landauer Brüderhaus in that city. Of a similar
stamp are four altar panels (1493), representing “Joachim’s Sacrifice,” “Birth and Presentation of Mary,” and “Presentation of Christ,” in
the Cathedral of Augsburg. Somewhat less
marked is the Flemish origin of the master’s
manner in a series of “Scenes from the Passion”
(1499), and the altarpiece (1499) with the
“Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore” in the centre, “Coronation of the Virgin” above it, the
“Nativity” and “Martyrdom of Saint Dorothea”
in the wings, both in the gallery at Augsburg.
To the year 1499 belongs also the “Death of
the Virgin” in the Basel Museum. In Frankfort
he painted for the Dominicans a composite altarpiece (1501), comprising the “Last Supper,”
“Entry of Christ Into Jerusalem,” “Expulsion
of the Jews from the Temple,” etc., and “Seven
Scenes from the Passion,” now all in the Städel
Institute at Frankfort. Of the same period are
the “Crucifixion,” “Descent from the Cross,” and
“Entombment,” also “Sixteen Scenes from the
Life of Mary,” all parts of a large altarpiece
(1502) in the Old Pinakothek at Munich; a
“Transfiguration” (1502) and “Christ Crowned
with Thorns,” both in the Augsburg Gallery.
A marked progress in the master’s manner is
to be noticed in the “Life of Saint Paul” (1504),
in its more ideal conception, correct drawing,
and delicate execution, and of traditional interest as containing the portraits of the artist
and his two sons, Ambrosius and Hans. The influence of the Italian Renaissance is still more
apparent in the greater expressiveness and
beauty of coloring displayed in the “Saint
Catharine Altar” (1512), this and the preceding also in the Augsburg Gallery; but his
maturest work is the “Martyrdom of Saint
Sebastian” (1515–16), in the Pinakothek at
Munich, a composition full of dramatic power,
far transcending any of his previous efforts. His
last important work was probably the “Fountain
of Life” (1519), in the royal palace at Lisbon.
1
&lt;section end=&quot;Holbein, Hans&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{sc|Vil.}} X.—10.&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 07.djvu/487</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3119971</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133695</id>
      <parentid>13611263</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:46:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133695</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6870" sha1="cyy9dmh1qqentwvk6w0dzq9eduru8nm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|'''FALCONER.'''|437|'''FALCONRY.'''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;United States for three years (1867-09), connected with the Olympic Theatre in New York. Returning to England, he died September 29, 1879. He composed or adapted many plays, of which the must popular was ''Peep o' Day'' (1861), founded on one of Banim's stories of Irish life. As an actor he was admirable in Irish rôles. 

[[Author:Hugh Falconer|'''FALCONER''', {{sc|Hugh}}]] (1808-65). A Scottish botanist and paleontologist, born at Forres (Elginshire). He graduated at the University of Aberdeen in 1820, studied medicine at the University of Edinburgh in 1828-29, was appointed assistant surgeon in the service of the 
East India Company in 1829, and in 1832 became superintendent of the botanic garden at Saharanpur (Northwestern Provinces), India. His investigations led to the discovery in the Siválik Hills of large numbers of important vertebrate 
fossils. For his work in connection with these remains he obtained the Wollaston medal of the Geological Society of London in 1837. It was on his recommendation, in a report to the Government of Bengal, that the culture of the tea-plant was introduced into India. He also discovered the asafœtida plant, and was the first to give a description of it. During his residence in 
England on sick leave in 1843-47 he prepared the India fossils of the British Museum for exhibition. In 1847 he received appointment as superintendent of the Calcutta Botanic Garden, and professor of botany in the medical college there. Me was elected foreign secretary of the Geological Society, and a vice-president of the Royal Society. He edited a large incomplete work entitled ''Fauna Antiqua Sivalensis'' (1846-49; nine parts with illustrations of 1123 specimens, and one volume of text), and published a ''Descriptive Catalogue of the Fossil Remains from the Sewalik Hills'' (1859). Considerable unpublished 
material was edited by C. Murchison as ''Palæontological Memoirs and Notes of the Late Hugh Falconer'' (London, 1868). Consult the biographical notice in the first volume of that work, and the ''Royal Society's Catalogue of Scientific Papers'', vol. ii. (London, 1868). 

[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|'''FALCONER''', {{sc|William}}]] (1732-69). An English poet, son of a poor barber. He was born in Edinburgh. He went early to sea, and before he was eighteen years of age he was second mate in a vessel in the Levant trade, which was shipwrecked off Cape Colonna in Greece. Of the crew only he and two others were saved. The story of this voyage he related in a poem called &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]&quot; (1762). Entering the Royal Navy, he was appointed purser on the frigate ''Aurora'', which was about to sail for India. The ''Aurora'', after touching at the Cape of Good Hope, December, 1769. was lost. All the crew perished. &quot;The Shipwreck&quot; passed through three editions before this tragic event, and is still an interesting poem. Ealconer wrote a political satire entitled ''The Demagogue'' (1784), and compiled a nautical dictionary (1769). His ''Poetical Works'' were edited, with a Life, by Gilfillan (London, 1854).
 
'''FALCONET''', fal'kft'na', Etienne Mai-rice 
(1716-91). A French sculptor, born in Paris. 
He was the pupil of Lemoine. His first works 
include &quot;Milo of Crotona,&quot; a vigorous study; 
&quot;Pygmalion,&quot; &quot;A Bather,&quot; and &quot;Christ in 
Agony,&quot; and an &quot;Annunciation.&quot; in the Church of 
Saint Roch. Paris. In 1766 Catharine II. of 
Russia sent for him to model an equestrian statue 
of Peter the Great at Saint Petersburg. This is 
his chief work. It took him twelve years to com 
plete it, hut it has little originality. Alter his 
return to France he devoted himself principally 
to writing. His literary works are mostly concerned with his own art, and were collected as 
(Euvrea littdraires (1781-82). The charm of 
Falconet as a sculptor is apparent in his gl 
ful, seductive &quot;Winter,&quot; &quot;Correction,&quot; I 
Three Graces,&quot; &quot;Venus and Love,&quot; &quot;Recompense,&quot; 
and &quot;Music.&quot; His modeling is correct, and his 
work is full of sentiment. 
FALCONETTO, fal'ke net'to.GlOl ivm Mama 
(1458-1534). An Italian architect and painter, 
born in Verona. He studied under his father, 
Jacopo Falconetto, and probably under Velozzo 
da Forll, but was by preference an architect. 
His chief works in painting wire the frescoes in 
the Church of San Pietro Martire in Verona, a 
series of religious allegories somewhat in the 
manner of his master. More important are his 
architectural works at Padua, where he built a 
part of the Palazzo del Capitaneo, two pavilions 
of the Palazzo Giustiniani (1524), and several 
of the city gates. 

'''FALCONIFORMES''', fal'kon-I -for'in.'z. An 
ordinal term, used by Evans and some recent 
ornithologists, for the raptorial birds, including 
(I) the Cathartidse and (2) the Accipitres, the 
latter embracing (a) the l'alcoiiiiue and (b) the 
Pandionin*. 
FALCONRY. The art of training falcons 
born in a state of freedom so that when they 
have flown and captured their quarry they will, 
instead of devouring it. give it up to their 
trainer. They will pursue and capture on the 
wing the heron, partridge, lark, rook, magpie, 
wild duck, pigeon, and rabbit, and in India game 
as large as the deer. In ancient times this sport 
was called hawking, a term still preserved in 
many places. Nowadays falconry is the term ap- 
plied to the sport and all that pertains to it ; 
hawking, to its actual practice out in the field. 
Falconry as a sport is of very ancient origin. It 
was practiced in Eastern countries and in central 
Europe long before it became established in 
Great Britain. In England, after the Norman 
Conquest, it was much indulged in by kings, 
nobles, and ladies; and in those days the rank of 
the individual could be indicated by the par- 
ticular species of hawk carried on his wrist. 
Thus an earl carried a peregrine falcon. The 
literature of the fourteenth, fifteenth, and six- 
teenth centuries teems with allusions to it. In 
the seventeenth century the sport declined; in 
the eighteenth century it partially revived, but 
again fell ofT about the year 1727. when the art 
of shooting birds on the wing became the fashion. 
In the present day its restoration in England, 
Holland, and France is attended with growing 
success, though no country in the world has such 
a variety of hawks, or such opportunities for fly 
intr them, as the United States, in which country 
and Canada several successful clubs have been 
organized for the encouragement of the sport. 
In Spanish America hawking was long esteemed 
as a favorite sport. In the East, from China to 
Morocco, falconry still maintains its old-time 
position as a field sport. 
In falconry two distinct kinds of hawks are 
used — the long-winged, or true falcons, and the 
short-winged. The first arc represented chiefly&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15133704</id>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7169" sha1="9186pruahuv61dcbrbm8cm7zdjel8lp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|'''FALCONER.'''|437|'''FALCONRY.'''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, Edmund&quot; /&gt;United States for three years (1867-09), connected with the Olympic Theatre in New York. Returning to England, he died September 29, 1879. He composed or adapted many plays, of which the must popular was ''Peep o' Day'' (1861), founded on one of Banim's stories of Irish life. As an actor he was admirable in Irish rôles. 

&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, Edmund&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, Hugh&quot; /&gt;[[Author:Hugh Falconer|'''FALCONER''', {{sc|Hugh}}]] (1808-65). A Scottish botanist and paleontologist, born at Forres (Elginshire). He graduated at the University of Aberdeen in 1820, studied medicine at the University of Edinburgh in 1828-29, was appointed assistant surgeon in the service of the 
East India Company in 1829, and in 1832 became superintendent of the botanic garden at Saharanpur (Northwestern Provinces), India. His investigations led to the discovery in the Siválik Hills of large numbers of important vertebrate 
fossils. For his work in connection with these remains he obtained the Wollaston medal of the Geological Society of London in 1837. It was on his recommendation, in a report to the Government of Bengal, that the culture of the tea-plant was introduced into India. He also discovered the asafœtida plant, and was the first to give a description of it. During his residence in 
England on sick leave in 1843-47 he prepared the India fossils of the British Museum for exhibition. In 1847 he received appointment as superintendent of the Calcutta Botanic Garden, and professor of botany in the medical college there. Me was elected foreign secretary of the Geological Society, and a vice-president of the Royal Society. He edited a large incomplete work entitled ''Fauna Antiqua Sivalensis'' (1846-49; nine parts with illustrations of 1123 specimens, and one volume of text), and published a ''Descriptive Catalogue of the Fossil Remains from the Sewalik Hills'' (1859). Considerable unpublished 
material was edited by C. Murchison as ''Palæontological Memoirs and Notes of the Late Hugh Falconer'' (London, 1868). Consult the biographical notice in the first volume of that work, and the ''Royal Society's Catalogue of Scientific Papers'', vol. ii. (London, 1868). 

&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, Hugh&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|'''FALCONER''', {{sc|William}}]] (1732-69). An English poet, son of a poor barber. He was born in Edinburgh. He went early to sea, and before he was eighteen years of age he was second mate in a vessel in the Levant trade, which was shipwrecked off Cape Colonna in Greece. Of the crew only he and two others were saved. The story of this voyage he related in a poem called &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]&quot; (1762). Entering the Royal Navy, he was appointed purser on the frigate ''Aurora'', which was about to sail for India. The ''Aurora'', after touching at the Cape of Good Hope, December, 1769. was lost. All the crew perished. &quot;The Shipwreck&quot; passed through three editions before this tragic event, and is still an interesting poem. Ealconer wrote a political satire entitled ''The Demagogue'' (1784), and compiled a nautical dictionary (1769). His ''Poetical Works'' were edited, with a Life, by Gilfillan (London, 1854).

&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconet, Etienne Maurice&quot; /&gt;'''FALCONET''', fal'kft'na', Etienne Mai-rice 
(1716-91). A French sculptor, born in Paris. 
He was the pupil of Lemoine. His first works 
include &quot;Milo of Crotona,&quot; a vigorous study; 
&quot;Pygmalion,&quot; &quot;A Bather,&quot; and &quot;Christ in 
Agony,&quot; and an &quot;Annunciation.&quot; in the Church of 
Saint Roch. Paris. In 1766 Catharine II. of 
Russia sent for him to model an equestrian statue 
of Peter the Great at Saint Petersburg. This is 
his chief work. It took him twelve years to com 
plete it, hut it has little originality. Alter his 
return to France he devoted himself principally 
to writing. His literary works are mostly concerned with his own art, and were collected as 
(Euvrea littdraires (1781-82). The charm of 
Falconet as a sculptor is apparent in his gl 
ful, seductive &quot;Winter,&quot; &quot;Correction,&quot; I 
Three Graces,&quot; &quot;Venus and Love,&quot; &quot;Recompense,&quot; 
and &quot;Music.&quot; His modeling is correct, and his 
work is full of sentiment. 
FALCONETTO, fal'ke net'to.GlOl ivm Mama 
(1458-1534). An Italian architect and painter, 
born in Verona. He studied under his father, 
Jacopo Falconetto, and probably under Velozzo 
da Forll, but was by preference an architect. 
His chief works in painting wire the frescoes in 
the Church of San Pietro Martire in Verona, a 
series of religious allegories somewhat in the 
manner of his master. More important are his 
architectural works at Padua, where he built a 
part of the Palazzo del Capitaneo, two pavilions 
of the Palazzo Giustiniani (1524), and several 
of the city gates. 

'''FALCONIFORMES''', fal'kon-I -for'in.'z. An 
ordinal term, used by Evans and some recent 
ornithologists, for the raptorial birds, including 
(I) the Cathartidse and (2) the Accipitres, the 
latter embracing (a) the l'alcoiiiiue and (b) the 
Pandionin*. 
FALCONRY. The art of training falcons 
born in a state of freedom so that when they 
have flown and captured their quarry they will, 
instead of devouring it. give it up to their 
trainer. They will pursue and capture on the 
wing the heron, partridge, lark, rook, magpie, 
wild duck, pigeon, and rabbit, and in India game 
as large as the deer. In ancient times this sport 
was called hawking, a term still preserved in 
many places. Nowadays falconry is the term ap- 
plied to the sport and all that pertains to it ; 
hawking, to its actual practice out in the field. 
Falconry as a sport is of very ancient origin. It 
was practiced in Eastern countries and in central 
Europe long before it became established in 
Great Britain. In England, after the Norman 
Conquest, it was much indulged in by kings, 
nobles, and ladies; and in those days the rank of 
the individual could be indicated by the par- 
ticular species of hawk carried on his wrist. 
Thus an earl carried a peregrine falcon. The 
literature of the fourteenth, fifteenth, and six- 
teenth centuries teems with allusions to it. In 
the seventeenth century the sport declined; in 
the eighteenth century it partially revived, but 
again fell ofT about the year 1727. when the art 
of shooting birds on the wing became the fashion. 
In the present day its restoration in England, 
Holland, and France is attended with growing 
success, though no country in the world has such 
a variety of hawks, or such opportunities for fly 
intr them, as the United States, in which country 
and Canada several successful clubs have been 
organized for the encouragement of the sport. 
In Spanish America hawking was long esteemed 
as a favorite sport. In the East, from China to 
Morocco, falconry still maintains its old-time 
position as a field sport. 
In falconry two distinct kinds of hawks are 
used — the long-winged, or true falcons, and the 
short-winged. The first arc represented chiefly
&lt;section end=&quot;Falconet, Etienne Maurice&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 06.djvu/677</title>
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      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: tlic →  the, islied → ished</comment>
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      <text bytes="6821" sha1="6jgwdkbcynphuh9rh581bw8n4drcpcc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|*|589|*}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;EARTH. 
589 
EARTH LODGE. 
sun dep.irts from the eqinitor toward the north, 
till, about .Tune 21st, he has reached a northern 
declination of 23.5°. when he aj;ain approaclies 
the equator, which he reaches about September 
23d. He then advances southward, and about 
December 21st has reached a southern decdina- 
tion of 23.5°. when he turns once more toward 
tile equator, at which he arrives March 21st. 
The 21st of .June is the Innscst ilay in the North- 
ern Hemisphere, and the sliortcsl in the South- 
ern: with the 21st of December it is the reverse. 
The linear velocity of axial rotation at the 
earth's surface evidently increases gradually 
from the poles to the equator, where it is about 
24.840 miles a day. or about 1440 feet in a sec- 
ond. A direct proof of the rotation of the earth 
is furnished by experiments with the pendulum, 
which, as we have already pointed out. show a 
decrease of the force of fjravity from the poles 
toward the equator: and thoujih a part of this 
decrease is owing to the want of perfect s|)heric- 
ity. a part also arises from the centrifugal fon-e 
caused by the motion of rotation. Another di- 
rect proof of rotation may be drawn from the 
observation that bodies dropped from a consider- 
able height deviate toward the east from the 
vertical line. The analogy of our earth to the 
other planets may be also adduced as an argu- 
ment, since their rotation, with the exception of 
the smallest and the most distant, is distinctly 
discernible. Finally, an additional proof of the 
earth's rotation was given in 1851 by Foucaulfs 
experiment with the pendulum. The principle 
of the experiment is this — that a i)endulum once 
set in motion, and swinging freely, continues to 
swing in the same plane, while at any place on 
the earth the plane of the meridian continues to 
change its position relative to this fixed plane. 
This experiment, being tried, verified the expect- 
ed rotation most satisfactorily. 
If the turning of the earth on its axis is once 
admitted to be the cause of the apparent daily 
motion of the heavens, it is an easy step to con- 
sider the annual motion of the sun through the 
constellations of the zodiac as also apparent, 
and arising from that revolution of the earth 
about the stin which we have already mentioned. 
If we consider that the mass of the sun is about 
332,000 times greater than that of the earth, 
and that by the laws of mechanics two bodies 
that revolve round each other must revolve about 
their common centre of gravity, the idea of the 
sun revolving about the earth is seen to be 
simply impossible. The common centre of grav- 
ity of the two bodies, being distant from the 
centre of each inversely as their respective 
masses, is calculated to be far within the body 
of the sun, which has a diameter of S(i(i,400 
miles. But it is easy to see how the apparent 
motion of the sun on the ecliptic naturally 
arises from a motion of the earth about the 
Bun. The motions of the jilanets. also, that ap- 
pear so complicated and irregular as seen by us, 
can only be satisfactorily explained by assuming 
that they. too. revolve rotind the sun in (he same 
direction as the earth. Sec the articles PRF.rES.siON 
and XtTATTON for an account of a small periodic 
motion of the earth's axis and its elTects. 
The Earth's Tempfkattrk. The phenomena 
of heat on the earth's surface are described tinder 
Climate; Meteorolooy: and other heads. .Xs 
we go below the surface, we reach a depth be- 
yond which the interior of the earth seems to 
have no sympathy with the external causes of 
heat or cold, and its heat appears to be its own, 
and to increase according to a fixed law the 
deeper we descend. The average rate of observed 
increase is 1° 1*&quot;. -for a descent of between 40 
and 50 feet. The distribution of the land and 
water surfaces, with their area, is discussed in 
the article Geography (q.v.). For the physical 
features of the earth, see (iEOLOGY. 
niiiLio(iKAPiiv. liurmcister, (leschkhtc der 
t^cliopf till (/ (7th ed., Leipzig, 1872); Suess. Das 
Antlit:: dcr Erde (I^ipzig, 1883 et seq.); Kireh- 
liofT, i'liser Wissen con der Erde (ib., 188G et 
seq.); Hann. Hochstetter. and Pokornv. Allge- 
meine Urdkidide (ib.. 1896-99); Ratzel. OiV Erde 
iiiid das Leben (ib., 1901 et seq.): Shaler. As- 
pects of the Earth (Xew York, 1889); Hum- 
boldt, Cosmos (new ed. London, 18S9); Rechis, 
The Earth and Its Inhabitants (trans, ed. by 
Keane and Ravcnstcin, London. 1890 95): the 
.tlases of Physical Geography of .Vlcxander 
Keith .Tohnston, Bartliohmiew. and Heighaus; 
Habcnicht. (Inindriss einerejcaklen ftehij/jftiiifisge- 
srhiehlc (Leipzig, 1896); Ncwconib, &quot;Tables of 
the Motion of the Earth on Its Axis .Around the 
Sun.&quot; in Asfronomiefil Papers, vol. vi. (Wash- 
ington. 1805) : and Xeuinayr. Erdiiesehichte 
(Leipzig. 1895). 
EARTH-CHESTNXJT. See Eartiinit. 
EARTH-EATING. The practice of eating 
&lt;lav. 
II' ( iKOIMIAl.Y. 
EARTHENWARE. See Pottery. 
EARTH-HOG, or Pig. A name for the Aabd- 
VaKK I q.v. ) . 
EARTH LODGE. A domicile of earth, or 
within the eartii. The middle-latittide Amerind 
tri'oes made typical earth lodges for winter use. 
The Caddoan, Siouan, and Athapa.scan domicile 
for the winter was constructed by making an 
excavation from two to four feet deep, within 
which a framework of poles was erected. This 
was covered with grass or shrubbery and the ex- 
cavated earth was heaped over all. The entrance 
was a long covered way. Among the California 
tribes there was a corresponding type, thougVi 
placed deeper in the earth and with a projior- 
tionately longer covered entrance. This building 
was used as a &quot;medicine' lodge, i.e. a temple, or 
place for sacred ceremonies. In southern Cali- 
fornia and throughout the arid region generally 
a single domicile usually served both for winter 
and summer use. This was commonly built 
of grass or cones or wattled shrubbery supported 
by a framework of poles, but a trace of the more 
j)rimitivc form survived in a roof-eovering of 
earth and sometimes in a plastering of mud 
with imbedded pebbles. This latter type is of 
much interest as a precursor of the pise type in 
which .merican aboriginal architecture may be 
said to have culminated. The pebble-set plaster- 
ing was thickened, then the pebbly mud was 
rammed between two wattled walls. As a 
further development the wattling was reduced to 
mov;ibIe screens between which successive ledges 
of rammed earth were built up and permitted 
to set by drying: while the earthen roof gradu- 
ally became a resting-place, then a refuge as the 
walls developed into parapets, and eventually an 
upper floor when the parapet had become a full 
story. This perfect typ&lt;' of eartli lodge co- 
exists with the essentially primitive neighbor-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The American Cyclopædia (1879) Volume VII.djvu/78</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3144179</id>
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      <text bytes="6491" sha1="c2ve4d0pmn8mfq4v4wfse1y0jpcupb3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{rh|70|FALCONE|FALCONRY|{{nil}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Oroenlandicus, Hanc.) as a distinct species, 
says it is never dark-colored like the young of 
the Iceland falcon, its plumage from the nest 
being whiter than the mature livery of the lat- 
ter, and not unfrequently as white as that of the 
adults of its own species. The mature Green- 
land bird is distinguished from the young by 
the cordate and arrow-head markings of the 
back and scapulars; the young have above 
large oblong spots, with long narrow dashes on 
the head and lower parts, the marking from 
dark gray becoming with age almost black ; the 
cere, feet, and toes also change from light livid 
blue to pale yellow. Like other falcons, it gets 
the mature plumage at the first moult. In fact, 
the Greenland falcon may be said to have a 
white plumage with dark markings, and the 
Iceland bird dark plumage with white mark- 
ings ; whether they are distinct species will be 
determined by the definition of what consti- 
tutes specific characters. Both species occur 
in America ; the Greenland bird probably does 
not breed in Iceland, and is only occasional- 
ly seen there, driven from its more northern 
haunts by severe weather ; the Iceland bird 
sometimes breeds in Greenland. The weight 
of evidence seems to be in favor of these birds 
being distinct species. Other falcons, which 
have been trained to pursue game, are the H. 
subbuteo, H. cesalon, and T. alaudarius, which 
will be described respectively under the popu- 
lar names of HOBBY, MEBLIN, and KESTEEL. 

&lt;section begin=&quot;Falcone, Aniello&quot; /&gt;'''FALCONE, Aniello''', an Italian painter, born in 
Naples in 1600, died in France in 1665. He 
was a pupil of Spagnoletto, and set up an acad- 
emy of his own. At the time of Masaniello's 
revolt he formed his pupils into a secret band 
for retaliation upon the Spaniards. When the 
insurrection was ended he fled to France, 
where he was employed by Colbert. He is 
especially famous for his battle pieces. They 
are not .numerous, and command great prices. 
Their excellence is in their extreme fidelity to 
nature, and their brilliant coloring. Salvator 
Rosa was one of his numerous pupils. 

&lt;section end=&quot;Falcone, Aniello&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, Hugh&quot; /&gt;[[Author:Hugh Falconer|'''FALCONER, Hugh''']], a British palæontologist, born at Forres, Scotland, Feb. 29, 1808, died in England, Jan. 31, 1865. He studied at the universities of Aberdeen and Edinburgh, received his diploma as physician in 1829, was employed as surgeon by the East India company, and in 1832 as director of a botanical garden in one of the Anglo-Indian towns, whence he explored the Himalaya. He published &quot;Selections from the Bostan of Saadi&quot; (London, 1838), and (jointly with T. Proby Cautley) ''Fauna Antiqua Sivalensis'' (1846), a laborious work, with descriptions of numerous fossils in the Sivalik hills. The &quot;Palæontological Memoirs of Hugh Falconer&quot; (2 vols., 1868) include a sketch of his life. 

&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, Hugh&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|'''FALCONER, William''']], a British poet, born in Edinburgh about 1730, lost at sea in 1769. He was the son of a barber, whose other children were all deaf and dumb. At the age of 18 being second mate of the Britannia, he was shipwrecked off Cape Colonna, on the coast of Greece, and was one of the three who survived the wreck, which afterward became the subject of his principal poem, &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]].&quot; This was published in 1762. He compiled a &quot;Universal Marine Dictionary&quot; (republished in 1815, enlarged and modernized 
by W. Burney, LL.&amp;nbsp;D.), and wrote several poems, including a political satire directed against Lord Chatham, Wilkes, and Churchill. In 1769 he sailed for India in the frigate Aurora, which, after touching at the Cape of 
Good Hope, was never heard from again. 

&lt;section end=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Falconet, Étienne Maurice&quot; /&gt;'''FALCONET, Étienne Maurice''', a French sculptor, 
born in Paris in 1716, died in 1791. He was a 
pupil of Lemoine, and early gained distinction 
by a statue of Milo of Crotona. Many of his 
works were destroyed at the time of the revolu- 
tion. None of them were equal in merit to the 
immense bronze equestrian statue of Peter the 
Great, which he executed at St. Petersburg, 
by order of Catharine II., in l776-'8. 

'''FALCONRY''', the art of training falcons or 
other birds of prey for the chase, the sport it- 
self being called in English hawking, in French 
le vol. A falconry is also the place where such 
birds are kept. The practice is very ancient 
in Europe, and yet more so in Asia. &quot;We have 
no mention of it among the Romans till after 
the time of Vespasian. It was certainly in 
existence in the 4th and 5th centuries. In 
Britain it appears to have been a favorite rec- 
reation in the reign of Ethelbert II. of Kent, 
A. D. 760. King Alfred had his falconers, and a 
book on falconry is still extant attributed to Ed- 
ward the Confessor. Harold II. is represented 
in the Bayeux tapestry as visiting the court 
of Duke William of Normandy with a hawk on 
his fist. The Domesday book makes frequent 
mention of falconries and eyries for breeding. 
In the time of Henry II., William Knot, the 
king's tenant, paid his rent at the exchequer in 
three hawks and three gerfalcons. King John 
was devoted to the sport. Nicholas, a Dane, 
was to give the king a hawk every time he 
came trading to England. The sport died out 
in England in the time of the Stuarts. In 
France falconry was most practised in the time 
of Francis I. (1515-'47). His grand falconer 
had an annual re venue of 4,000 florins, and had 
under him 50 gentlemen and 50 falconers, the 
whole establishment costing annually 40,000 
florins. Under Louis XIV. the institution was 
yet more expensive. Louis XVI. tried in vain 
to reduce the expense of the royal falconry ; 
but finally the revolution swept it away. In 
Germany the sport was honored in the reign 
of Frederick II., and in the 14th century fiefs 
called Habichtslehen, or hawk tenures, were 
granted on condition of payment in trained 
hawks. The sport retained its existence in 
Germany till toward the close of the 18th cen- 
tury. In Italy falconry was a favorite pastime. 
In the East, the Persians are skilful in training 
falcons to hunt all manner of birds, and even 
gazelles.—The vocabulary of hawking in Eng-
&lt;section end=&quot;Falconet, Étienne Maurice&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>c2ve4d0pmn8mfq4v4wfse1y0jpcupb3</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Early Kings of Norway.djvu/232</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3168419</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133298</id>
      <parentid>10118888</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:35:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTKAIT → PORTRAIT</comment>
      <origin>15133298</origin>
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      <text bytes="1233" sha1="em1qhy4q3d6yue9qbt29ffjb2qd0jwo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;222 THE PORTRAITS OF JOHN KNOX. 
mended him to the care of ' Langudrius, a principal 
nobleman in Scotland/ by whom his precious life was 
preserved. This town of ' Hamestonum, sole refage of 
the pious/ and this protective ' Langudrius, a prin- 
cipal nobleman/ are extremely wonderful to the 
reader ; and only after a little study do you discover 
that 'Langudrius, a principal nobleman' is simply 
the Laird of Langniddry, and that ^ Hamestonum ' the 
city of refuge is Cockbum the Laird of Ormiston's ; 
both of whom had Sons in want of education ; three 
in all, two of Langniddry's and one of Ormiston's, 
who, especially the first, had been lucky enough to 
secure John Knox's services as tutor ! The rest of 
the narrative is almost equally absurd, or only saved 
from being so by its emptiness and vagueness ; and 
the one certain fact we come upon is that of Knox's 
taking leave of his congregation, and shortly after- 
wards ordaining in their presence his successor, chosen 
by them and him, followed by his death in fifteen 
days, dates all accurately given ; on which latter 
point, what is curious to consider, Beza must have 
had exact information, not mere rumour. 
From all this we might infer that Beza had never&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>em1qhy4q3d6yue9qbt29ffjb2qd0jwo</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Early Kings of Norway.djvu/252</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3168440</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133300</id>
      <parentid>10118914</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:35:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1217" sha1="gomn2zha8e1jkep0pb5vdcz1ul83rct" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;242 THE PORTRAITS OF JOHN KNOX. 
sufficiency and copious river of beard, bestowed by 
Hondius. 
The so-called original Knox, still in Glasgow Uni- 
versity, is thus described to me by a friendly Scottish 
artist, Mr. Eobert Tait, Queen Anne Street, of good 
faculties and opportunities in such things, as of doubt- 
ful derivation from the Beza Icon, though engraved 
and recommended as such by Pinkerton, and as being 
an 'altogether weak and foolish head.' From the 
same artist I also learn that the bronze figure in the 
monument at Glasgow is a visible derivative from 
Beza, through Torphichen. And in brief this poor 
Figure-head has produced, and is still producing, 
through various venters, a quite Protean peciis of 
incredible portraits of Knox ; — the latest of note, 
generally known, is M'Crie's frontispiece to the Life 
of Knox, and probably the most widely spread in our 
generation that given in Chambers's Biographical 
Dictionary. A current portrait, I suppose, of the last 
century, although there is no date on it, * in the pos- 
* session of Miss Knox of Edinburgh, painted by De 
* Yos,' has some air of generic difference, but is evi- 
dently of filiality to Hondius or Torphichen withal ;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gomn2zha8e1jkep0pb5vdcz1ul83rct</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Early Kings of Norway.djvu/263</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3168451</id>
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      <id>15133301</id>
      <parentid>10118926</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:35:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
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(^ perceived that men began to weary of God.' 
wiox, * wondering that he desired to keep any 
* •;)urpose before Sermon (for that was never his 
iccustomed use before), said, &quot;Sir, the time of 
rmon approaches : I will leave you for the present 
• your meditation &quot; ; and so took the letter foresaid, 
* &gt;iiiJ left him. The said Maister George spaced up 
* and down behind the high altar more than half an 
* hour : his very countenance and visage declared the 
* grief and alteration of his mind. At last he passed 
*io the pulpit, but the auditure was small. He 
^should have begun to have entreated the Second 
* Table of the Law ; but thereof in that sermon, he 
* spake very little, but began on this manner: &quot;0 
' Lord how long shall it be, that thy holy word shall 
&quot;*be despised, and men shall not regard their own 
* salvation. I have heard of thee, Haddington, that 
* in thee would have been at ane vain Clerk Play &quot; 
' {Mystery Play) *' two or three thousand people ; and 
' now to hear the messenger of the Eternal God, of 
* aU thy town or parish, can not be numbered a 
* hundred persons. Sore and fearful shall the plagues 
* be that shall ensue this thy contempt : with fire and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>e4py3miyfa8s70xs6ytqprufbmhamt0</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Early Kings of Norway.djvu/293</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <parentid>10118959</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:35:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1165" sha1="640qcbd2kjdtzs16jjjeeqit9z7a9o9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;THE PORTRAITS OF JOHN KNOX. 283 
1559; yesterday, Sunday 10th, at St. Andrews, 
whither Knox had hastened on summons, he preached 
publicly in the Kirk there, mindful of his prophecy 
from the French galleys, fifteen years ago, and re- 
gardless of the truculent Hamilton, Archbishop and 
still official ruler of the place ; who had informed 
him the night before that if he should presume to 
try such a tiling, he (the truculent Archbishop) would 
have him saluted with ' twelve culverings, the most 
' part of which would land upon his nose.' The 
fruit of which sermon had been the sudden flight to 
Falkland over night of Eight Reverend Hamilton 
(who is here again, much astonished, on Cupar 
Muir this day), and the open declaration and arming 
of St. Andrews town in favour of Knox and his 
cause. 
The Queen Eegent, as was her wont, only half 
kept her pacific treaty. Herself and her Frenchmen 
did, indeed, retire wholly to the south side of the 
Forth; quitting Fife altogether; but of all other 
points there was a perfect neglect. Her garrison 
refused to quit Perth, as per bargain, and needed 
a blast or two of siege-artillery, and danger of speedy&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Early Kings of Norway.djvu/310</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3168495</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTKAIT → PORTRAIT</comment>
      <origin>15133303</origin>
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      <text bytes="1703" sha1="gdc07ybcnydm2tibhv3w9ldlk24i7kh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;298 THE PORTRAITS OF JOHN KNOX. 
* invalidate the Portrait ; but such, is not the case, for 
' white collars or bands, of various shapes and sizes, 
* were in use in Knox's time, and are found in the 
' portraits and frequently referred to, in the literature 
' of Elizabeth's reign/ 
The remark of Mr. Tait in reference to the some- 
what unpleasant ' surface ' of the Somerville Picture 
is clearly illustrated by looking at an excellent copy of 
it, painted a few months ago by Mr. Samuel Laurence, 
in which, although the likeness is accurately preserved, 
the head has on account of the less oily * surface ' of 
the picture a much more refined appearance.* 
* Since this was first printed, Mr. Laurence himself favours me 
with the following remarks, which seem too good to be lost : . . . 
' I wish the reason for my copying the Somerville Picture had been 
' given, viz., its being in a state of dilapidation and probable decay. 
' Entirely agreeing with your own impressions as to its represent- 
' ing the individuality and character of the man, I undertook to 
' make a copy that should, beside keeping the character, represent 
* the condition of this Picture in its undamaged state. It is now 
'not only &quot;much cracked,&quot; but the half -tints are taken off, by 
* some bad cleaner ; the gradations between the highest lights and 
' the deepest shades wanting : hence the unpleasant look. I think 
' it more than a matter of &quot;surface.&quot; The very ground, a &quot;bricky&quot; 
' red one, exposed, here and there ; the effec f which upon the 
' colours may be likened to a tune played upon a piano-forte that 
'has missing keys . . . — Samuel Laurence (6, WeUs Sti-eet, 
* Oxford Street, March 30, 1875).'&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gdc07ybcnydm2tibhv3w9ldlk24i7kh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>1911 Encyclopædia Britannica/Ryazan (government)</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>3228148</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Obscuraa</username>
        <id>2978547</id>
      </contributor>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="289" sha1="2r3v6ha7h3bso6od14cm5jl3ln1q3es" xml:space="preserve">{{EB1911
 |volume    = 23
 |previous  = Ryan, Lacy
 |next      = Ryazan (town)
 |wikipedia = Ryazan Governorate
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;EB1911 - Volume 23.djvu&quot; from=&quot;993&quot; to=&quot;993&quot; fromsection=&quot;s3&quot; tosection=&quot;s3&quot; /&gt;

{{DEFAULTSORT:Ryazan (government)}}
[[Category:EB1911:Countries:Europe:Russia]]</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:History of the Indian Archipelago Vol 2.djvu/208</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
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      <text bytes="1289" sha1="0a2l8aaazxvjgwk0vb5nw9h4qqbn6wn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;190 
VOCABULARIES. 
English above 
English mlhiu 
1. Jayanesc (o.) duwur, luhur 
1. Javanese (o.) jaroh 
Javanese (c.) inggil 
Javanese (c.) labbat, dalam 
Javanese (a.) 
Javanese (a.) 
IMalay atSs 
Malay dalam 
2. Bali (o.) daduhur 
2. Bali (o.) jaroh 
Baii (c.) badohur 
Bali (c.) 
, Madura (o.) atas 
Madura (o.) dalam 
Madura (c.) 
Madura (c.) 
Sunda (o.) luhur 
S^nda (o.) jaroh 
Sunda (c.) 
Sunda (c.) 
Lampung atas 
Lampung lom 
3. Biajuk larabo 
3. Biajuk whang 
4. Bugis asa 
4. Bugis lalang 
Macassar rate 
Macassar lal&amp;ng 
5. Timuri 
5. Timuri 
Rotti 
Rotti 
6. Atui nuna 
6. Atui irotto 
7. Saraang kepeng 
7. Saniang baleh 
Madagascar ambunna 
Madagascar 
English below 
English without 
1. Javanese (o.) ngisor 
I.Javanese (o.) jobo 
Javanese (c.) ngandap 
Javanese (c.) jawi 
Javanese (a.) 
Javanese (a.) 
Malay bawah 
Malay luar 
2. Bali (o.) hakten 
2, Bali (o.) wangan 
Bali (c.) ngisor 
Bali (c.) 
Madura (o.) babah 
Madura (o.) lowar 
Madura (c.) 
Madura (c.) 
Sunda (o.) andap 
Sunda (o.) luar 
Sunda (c.) 
Sunda (c.) 
Lampung bah 
Lampung luah 
3. Biajuk waniwak 
3, Biajuk kalwar 
4. Bugis awa 
4, Bugis saliwang 
Macassar rawa 
Macassar pantara 
5. Timuri 
6, Timuri 
Rotti 
Rotti 
6. Atui dirro 
6. Atui 
7. Saraang kiyom 1 
7. Samang mos 
Madagascar 1 
Madagascar&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The invasion of the Crimea Vol 6.djvu/17</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3242494</id>
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      <contributor>
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        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="839" sha1="hap3itcdsq4ili2tiv6lxltq64ywlrr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;COJSTKNTS. 
XI 
Chapter V. — continued. 
11. 
Tiiiiovieft's sortie, 
62 
III. 
The part taken by the garrison in the Karaliel Fauhonrg, . 54 
English reiulurcements marched towards Mount Jnkernian, . 51 
IV. 
General Codrington's defenee of the Victoria Eidge, . 57 
Advantages resulting from General Codrington's firmness on 
the Victoria Ridge, ■ . 61 
V. 
Eesult of the efforts made by the garrison, 
62 
VI. 
General failure of the enemy's auxiliary operations, 
. 63 
CHAPTER VI. 
THE FIGHT ON MOUNT INKERMAN. 
DESCRIPTION OP MOUNT INKEIIMAN — ITS DEFENCES — STRENGTH OF 
PENNEFATHEll-ABEANGEMENT OF THE PICKET SYSTEM— THE 
enemy's CONFUSED AND CLASHING COUNSELS — HIS FINAL DE- 
TERMINATION. 
I. 
Mount lukerman, 
. 64 
Shell Hill, 
. 67 
The Saddle-toi) Eeach, 
. 68 
The Quarry Ravine, 
. 68 
The English Heights, 
. 68&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The invasion of the Crimea Vol 6.djvu/45</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3242543</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133668</id>
      <parentid>12796457</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:22:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="973" sha1="lznen137qt1wo8waw3iy68ra0k36fn1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{sidenotes begin|side=right}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;THE BATTLE OE INKEEMAN. 
CHAPTER I. 
STATE OF THE SEBASTOPOL CAMPAIGN IN THE 
BEGINNING OF NOVEMBER 1854. 

{{right sidenote|Approach of the peril incurred by giving the enemey time.
{{di|If}} the forces which made good their descent on 
the Crimea had only at first to encounter the 
governor of an outlying province, they were still,
after all, the invaders of a mighty empire, well by 
able, in five or six weeks, to bring a great army 
against them ; and when they accepted the counsels which made their adventure drag on into a 
lengthened campaign, they prepared for themselves a day of conflict with the gathered strength 
of the Czar, 

That day was now close at hand. Released by 
the diplomatic errors of the Allies, and by the 
consequent determination of Austria, from all 
warlike tasks in the country of the Danube, the 
enemy's 4th Corps had long been moving round&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{rh|VOL. VI.||A|class=__leafisg}}
{{sidenotes begin|side=end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133669</id>
      <parentid>15133668</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:22:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
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      <text bytes="975" sha1="4cgbeabeczxy7q64kmvf971tev0tcgm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{sidenotes begin|side=right}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;THE BATTLE OE INKEEMAN. 
CHAPTER I. 
STATE OF THE SEBASTOPOL CAMPAIGN IN THE 
BEGINNING OF NOVEMBER 1854. 

{{right sidenote|Approach of the peril incurred by giving the enemey time.}}
{{di|If}} the forces which made good their descent on 
the Crimea had only at first to encounter the 
governor of an outlying province, they were still,
after all, the invaders of a mighty empire, well by 
able, in five or six weeks, to bring a great army 
against them ; and when they accepted the counsels which made their adventure drag on into a 
lengthened campaign, they prepared for themselves a day of conflict with the gathered strength 
of the Czar, 

That day was now close at hand. Released by 
the diplomatic errors of the Allies, and by the 
consequent determination of Austria, from all 
warlike tasks in the country of the Danube, the 
enemy's 4th Corps had long been moving round&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{rh|VOL. VI.||A|class=__leafisg}}
{{sidenotes begin|side=end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4cgbeabeczxy7q64kmvf971tev0tcgm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133670</id>
      <parentid>15133669</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:22:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133670</origin>
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      <text bytes="964" sha1="btnfk5wol49eku2a3gcp238op4p0b7g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{sidenotes begin|side=right}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;THE BATTLE OE INKEEMAN. 
CHAPTER I. 
STATE OF THE SEBASTOPOL CAMPAIGN IN THE 
BEGINNING OF NOVEMBER 1854. 

{{right sidenote|Approach of the peril incurred by giving the enemey time.}}
{{di|If}} the forces which made good their descent on 
the Crimea had only at first to encounter the 
governor of an outlying province, they were still,
after all, the invaders of a mighty empire, well by 
able, in five or six weeks, to bring a great army 
against them ; and when they accepted the counsels which made their adventure drag on into a 
lengthened campaign, they prepared for themselves a day of conflict with the gathered strength 
of the Czar, 

That day was now close at hand. Released by 
the diplomatic errors of the Allies, and by the 
consequent determination of Austria, from all 
warlike tasks in the country of the Danube, the 
enemy's 4th Corps had long been moving round&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{rh|VOL. VI.||A|class=__leafisg}}
{{sidenotes end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The invasion of the Crimea Vol 6.djvu/75</title>
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      <text bytes="1893" sha1="cqk36mqy99qtyll5ww3rehnjihzjzw2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{sidenotes begin|side=right}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;DISPOSITION OF FORCES. 31 
for the French and the English cuiiinianders to cuai'. 
avert an overwliehning disaster.&lt;ref&gt;The plan as I state it is the one which — whether with or without the authority — was actually followed. It was sketched — though in somewhat vague terms— by Prince Mentschikoft's general order on the 4th of November. The Prince left the details to be filled in by Moller, Soimonoif, Paululf, Dannen-berg, and Gortschakoff, and all these gave instructions or recommendations in writing. These will be found in the Appendix, Note VI. Dannenberg's recommendations do not enter into my statement of the plan as above given, because they were not acted upon, but an account of his endeavour to alter the arrangements will be found in subsequent pages. With respect to Gortschakoffs instractions, the general order was worded as though it meant to direct against Bosquet's position an actual, unfeigned attack ; but on authority which I regard as indisputable, I have satisfied myself that the orders really given to Gortschakoff were of the kind stated in the text.&lt;/ref&gt;

IV. 
{{right sidenote|Measures tending to inflame the seal of the Russian soldiery}}
Having gained the ascendant in numbers, and fashioned her plan of attack, Russia now also sought to evoke that more subtle element of power which derives from the souls of men. So large a body of people, children all of one monarch, one nation, one faith, had been gathered together in arms for a mighty effort within a narrow compass of ground, that feelings of a sort hardly known perhaps to isolated or scattered men, could be generated and raised to fierce heat by the fermenting of the compacted numbers; and simultaneously with the coming of the thousands long followed by thousands which acceded to Piince Mentschikoff's army in the early days&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Smallrefs}}
{{sidenotes end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The invasion of the Crimea Vol 6.djvu/98</title>
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      <text bytes="1652" sha1="8a7jqddaab2ksnv7f9k19md0ykzga4h" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{sidenotes begin|side=right}}
{{rh|64|THE BATTLE OF INKERMAN.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;
{{c|III. }}
{{LR sidenote|The part taken by the garrison in the Karabel Fauborg.}}
From the Kavabel Faubourg the Russians 
maintained a strong fire against the English siege 
works, but attempted no sortie with the object of 
etaining the reinforcements in march for Mount 
Inkerman. It would seem that the powerful 
garrison of Sebastopol may have been paralysed 
by the hampering words of the general orders 
which, being conceived in a too rigid spirit, 
undertook to assign beforehand the exact contin- 
gency in which an attack was to be attempted. 
The garrison troops had been ordered to move out 
and seize the batteries of the Allies if confusion 
should be there setting in;&lt;ref&gt;'Défense de Sebastopol,' p. 448. &lt;/ref&gt; and, that contin- 
gency not occurring, it happily resulted that the 
tens of thousands of men who were so placed as 
to be able to make sorties which might grievously 
detain the English reinforcements, were suffered 
to remain standing idle. 

{{LR sidenote|English reinforcements marched toward Mount Inkerman.}}
Thus the Generals in rear of our trenches were 
left so Unchecked by demonstrations in their 
front, that they could move freely towards Inkerman with some portions at least of their forces.&lt;ref&gt;The rest being for the most part on duty in the trendies.&lt;/ref&gt;
Sir Richard England, who commanded the 3d 
Division, had at his disposal for field operations 
a body of about 1400 men. With these (after 
leaving General Eyre in command of the trenches) 
he began to inarch towards the scene of the conflict, but when he gained the next ridge and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rh|64|THE BATTLE OF INKERMAN.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;
{{c|III. }}
{{LR sidenote|The part taken by the garrison in the Karabel Fauborg.}}
From the Kavabel Faubourg the Russians 
maintained a strong fire against the English siege 
works, but attempted no sortie with the object of 
etaining the reinforcements in march for Mount 
Inkerman. It would seem that the powerful 
garrison of Sebastopol may have been paralysed 
by the hampering words of the general orders 
which, being conceived in a too rigid spirit, 
undertook to assign beforehand the exact contin- 
gency in which an attack was to be attempted. 
The garrison troops had been ordered to move out 
and seize the batteries of the Allies if confusion 
should be there setting in;&lt;ref&gt;'Défense de Sebastopol,' p. 448. &lt;/ref&gt; and, that contin- 
gency not occurring, it happily resulted that the 
tens of thousands of men who were so placed as 
to be able to make sorties which might grievously 
detain the English reinforcements, were suffered 
to remain standing idle. 

{{LR sidenote|English reinforcements marched toward Mount Inkerman.}}
Thus the Generals in rear of our trenches were 
left so Unchecked by demonstrations in their 
front, that they could move freely towards Inkerman with some portions at least of their forces.&lt;ref&gt;The rest being for the most part on duty in the trendies.&lt;/ref&gt;
Sir Richard England, who commanded the 3d 
Division, had at his disposal for field operations 
a body of about 1400 men. With these (after 
leaving General Eyre in command of the trenches) 
he began to inarch towards the scene of the conflict, but when he gained the next ridge and&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
{{sidenotes right}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1682" sha1="h5qrucka555vcvnxidwut076qaf22tw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;{{sidenotes begin|side=left}}
{{rh|64|THE BATTLE OF INKERMAN.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;
{{c|III. }}
{{LR sidenote|The part taken by the garrison in the Karabel Fauborg.}}
From the Kavabel Faubourg the Russians 
maintained a strong fire against the English siege 
works, but attempted no sortie with the object of 
etaining the reinforcements in march for Mount 
Inkerman. It would seem that the powerful 
garrison of Sebastopol may have been paralysed 
by the hampering words of the general orders 
which, being conceived in a too rigid spirit, 
undertook to assign beforehand the exact contin- 
gency in which an attack was to be attempted. 
The garrison troops had been ordered to move out 
and seize the batteries of the Allies if confusion 
should be there setting in;&lt;ref&gt;'Défense de Sebastopol,' p. 448. &lt;/ref&gt; and, that contin- 
gency not occurring, it happily resulted that the 
tens of thousands of men who were so placed as 
to be able to make sorties which might grievously 
detain the English reinforcements, were suffered 
to remain standing idle. 

{{LR sidenote|English reinforcements marched toward Mount Inkerman.}}
Thus the Generals in rear of our trenches were 
left so Unchecked by demonstrations in their 
front, that they could move freely towards Inkerman with some portions at least of their forces.&lt;ref&gt;The rest being for the most part on duty in the trendies.&lt;/ref&gt;
Sir Richard England, who commanded the 3d 
Division, had at his disposal for field operations 
a body of about 1400 men. With these (after 
leaving General Eyre in command of the trenches) 
he began to inarch towards the scene of the conflict, but when he gained the next ridge and&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
{{sidenotes end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Sibylline Leaves (Coleridge).djvu/170</title>
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        <id>2855804</id>
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      <text bytes="781" sha1="eawglz8w7a81h68w3diugjg4oezncl6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{c|148}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{center block/s}}
{{c|''TO A LADY.''}}
{{dhr}}
{{c|{{sm|''With [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falkner's]] &quot;[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]''.&quot;}}}}
{{dhr}}
&lt;poem&gt;
{{sc|Ah}}! not by Cam or Isis, famous streams,
:In arched groves, the youthful poet's choice;
Nor while half-list'ning, mid delicious dreams,
:To harp and song from lady's hand and voice;

Nor yet while gazing in sublimer mood
:On cliff, or cataract, in alpine dell;
Nor in dim cave with bladdery sea-weed strew'd,
:Framing wild fancies to the ocean's swell;

Our sea-bard sang this song! which still he sings,
:And sings for thee, sweet friend! Hark, Pity, hark!
Now mounts, now totters on the Tempest's wings,
:Now groans, and shivers, the replunging Bark!
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;/poem&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center block/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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|Year=1812
|Key=
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      <text bytes="8481" sha1="bwyg7eeaxdh2lwki0w8vtnlzw80y4na" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{larger|The {{uc|trial}} and {{uc|execution of}}}}}}

{{c|{{xxx-larger|{{uc|William Booth,}}}}}}

{{c|{{larger|Who was Executed at {{uc|Stafford}}, on Saturday Aug. 15, 1812.}}}}

{{c|{{x-larger|For Counterfeiting Forged Bank of England Notes}}}}

{{Custom rule|sp|40|lzt|40|sp|40}}

{{di|W}}{{uc|illiam Booth}}, the unfortunate malefactor who has this day terminated his exi{{ls}}tence to the offended laws of his country, was born of re{{ls}}pectable parents near Henly-in-Arden where his father is {{ls}}till living. He was about 33 years of age, and was brought up to no trade, and his parents indulged him in everything he wanted.

The crime for which he {{ls}}o ju{{ls}}tly forfeited his life, was for having in his po{{ls}}{{ls}}e{{ls}}{{ls}}ion without lawful excu{{ls}}e, a frame, mould, and in{{ls}}trument, for the making of paper, with the words &quot;Bank of England&quot; vi{{ls}}ible in the {{ls}}ub{{ls}}tance of the paper, and with having made or cau{{ls}}ed to be made, divers {{ls}}heets of paper in the {{ls}}ub{{ls}}tance of which the {{ls}}aid words &quot;Bank of England&quot; were vi{{ls}}ible, and with having the {{ls}}aid paper in his po{{ls}}{{ls}}e{{ls}}{{ls}}ion without lawful excu{{ls}}e; and with forging divers Bank-Notes for 10l. 5l. and 1l. each, and divers blank bank notes, for the like {{ls}}ums, and al{{ls}}o for coining divers pieces of coin re{{ls}}embling {{ls}}ilver Dollars and Bank Tokens; and for forging the {{ls}}tamp or die to denote the duty of four pence; and al{{ls}}o for forging divers promi{{ls}}{{ls}}ory notes of Me{{ls}}{{ls}}rs. Raikes and Co. Ea{{ls}}t Riding Bank, Hull, for the payment of one guinea each.

In the Year 1808 he was taken up on {{ls}}u{{ls}}picion of having murdered his brother, at {{SIC|Awl|Hall}} End, in the pari{{ls}}h of Wooten Wawen, but the evidence not appearing clear again{{ls}}t him, he was accordingly acquitted.

It appeared in the trial that J. Linwood con{{ls}}table of {{abbr|Birm.|Birmingham}} in con{{ls}}equence of {{ls}}ome information he had received, went to the pri{{ls}}oner's hou{{ls}}e on 16 of March, with 10 {{ls}}pecial con{{ls}}tables &amp; 7 Dragoon{{ls}}—{{ls}}topt at the Boars Head Perry {{SIC|Bar|Barr}}, about a minute on their way thither—pri{{ls}}oner's hou{{ls}}e is al{{ls}}o at Perry Bar apparently an old Farm hou{{ls}}e, and 2 or 300 yards from any other dwelling. He de{{ls}}cribed the manner in which the hou{{ls}}e was blockaded, there being 3 doors in the pa{{ls}}{{ls}}age leading to the parlour, all very {{ls}}trong and fa{{ls}}tened with {{ls}}olid {{ls}}quare oak and iron bars and the windows were lined with wrought iron and al{{ls}}o barred, {{ls}}o that it was almo{{ls}}t invulnerable to the attacks of any a{{ls}}{{ls}}ailant. The po{{ls}}{{ls}}e being unable to obtain admittance into the lower rooms by rea{{ls}}on of the doors and windows being {{ls}}o {{ls}}trongly barricaded, &amp; the windows of the chamber being al{{ls}}o {{ls}}ecured by iron bars, &amp;c {{ls}}o that they could not get in there Chilling{{ls}}worth one of the Brirm. a{{ls}}{{ls}}i{{ls}}tants to the con{{ls}}tables, proceeded up a ladder in front of the hou{{ls}}e. On going up the ladder he {{ls}}aw the pri{{ls}}oner in the chamber over the parlour—he came up to the window—witne{{ls}}s a{{ls}}ked him if he would let him in—pri{{ls}}oner {{ls}}aid he would ju{{ls}}t now—witne{{ls}}s then broke the gla{{ls}}s, and the pri{{ls}}oner went to the middle of the room, and witne{{ls}}s {{ls}}aw him take {{ls}}ome papers from a rolling pre{{ls}}s that was fixed on a bench in the middle of the room, the papers appeared to be the {{ls}}ize of bank note{{ls}}—{{ls}}aw the pri{{ls}}oner put them on a fire. Witne{{ls}}s then a{{ls}}cended the ladder to the garret window, and with much difficulty forced him{{ls}}elf through it into the garret and others of his party followed. After he had entered the garret he jumped thro' a trap door onto the room where Booth was when he went up the ladder, but Booth at the {{ls}}ame time went thro' another trap door into the parlour below. Witne{{ls}}s remained in the chamber, and found burnt paper in the fire place. 3 other per{{ls}}ons came to him, &amp; he broke the wall over the fireplace, and took burnt papers out of the chimney—one was but very little burnt. The note was produced in Court and {{ls}}worn to.&lt;!—proofread to here by Pete F—&gt;

John Ingley had been in the pri{{ls}}oner's employ {{ls}}ince Chri{{ls}}tmas la{{ls}}t. The pri{{ls}}oner occupied 200 acres of land. Since he came to pri{{ls}}oner the windows of the parlour &amp; 2 chambers had been {{ls}}trengthened. Witne{{ls}}s was taken to work in the hou{{ls}}e about ten days before pri{{ls}}oner was apprehended. Before that time worked in the barn. Recollects Dorothy Ingley coming in the hou{{ls}}e on the 16th—and that {{abbr|Eliz.|Elizabeth}} Chidlow went and rapped at the parlour door in con{{ls}}equence of Dorothy Ingley {{ls}}peaking to her.—Booth came out, and {{ls}}aid, &quot;God woman what bother have you brought here?&quot; Chidlow {{ls}}aid the runners were coming. Booth {{ls}}aid it was a {{abbr|d——d|damned}} lie—they dar{{ls}}t not come there. Walked back into the parlour &amp; called witne{{ls}}s after him—gave him a {{ls}}mall trunk (which was produced)—told him the things that were in and were done, and he mu{{ls}}t go and plant it on the far {{ls}}ide the ground—the trunk {{SIC|war|was}} locked—he dug a hole in a field and buried it; he had been directed by the Pri{{ls}}oner to hide two copper-Plates on the Tue{{ls}}day before he was apprehended; he wrapt them in a cloth and buried them in a ditch; {{ls}}ame day he was ordered to hide a {{ls}}ingle plate which he hid in the {{ls}}ame manner. Mrs. Booth al{{ls}}o gave him Plates when Pri{{ls}}oner was abled, which he hid in the thatch of a wheat rick. Booth was then in bed he had tumbled down a trap door that morning &amp; hurt him{{ls}}elf—witne{{ls}}s was taken up on the Friday after the Pri{{ls}}oner. When he gave information, &amp; di{{ls}}covered where the articles were concealed.

Jo{{ls}}eph Chirm, {{SIC|head borough|head borough constable}} of Birm. proved the finding {{SIC|of the of the|of the}} trunk and Plates.—They were Notes of different value, and in a large amount. There were be{{ls}}ides 13 blanks, with the Bank of England water mark.

Wm. Bridges &amp; Wm. Brewer Paper and Paper-mould makers to the Bank of England proved that part of the Bills found in the trunk were made from the mould which had been produced. The Pri{{ls}}oner's Coun{{ls}}el took {{ls}}everal legal objections, which were over-ruled. The jury with very little he{{ls}}itation pronounced a Verdict of {{uc|Guilty}}. The Judge then pa{{ls}}{{ls}}ed {{ls}}entence on Booth in the following words{{Nowrap|;{{Bar|2}}}}

{{fine block|&quot;William Booth, you {{ls}}tand here to receive the judgement of the Court for two capital offences, of which a Jury have found you Guilty: it is not nece{{ls}}{{ls}}ary for me to {{ls}}peak of the other indictments again{{ls}}t you, under {{ls}}uch circum{{ls}}tances with which you have been indicted, you can have little rea{{ls}}on to expect that the mercy of the law will be extended to you: I can hold out no hope of that expectation, but I hope you will now do that which I greatly fear you have hitherto neglected—that is that you will, by humble and devout prayer and contrition, endeavour to prepare your{{ls}}elf for that great and dreadful day, when before a judgement {{ls}}eat far more awful than any earthly Tribunal, you will be called upon to give an account of your actions in this world; the {{ls}}hort interval that can be allowed to you between this time and that of putting into execution the {{ls}}entence which the law directs me to pronounce upon you, I tru{{ls}}t you will employ in that preparation: it now only remains with me to pa{{ls}}s that {{ls}}entence, which is—that you William Booth, be taken from hence to the place from whence you came, and from thence to the place of Execution, there to be hanged by the neck until you are dead, and the Lord have mercy on your Soul!&quot;}}

The Pri{{ls}}oner heard his {{ls}}entence without di{{ls}}may &amp; at the conclu{{ls}}ion bowed re{{ls}}pectfully to the Court.

Between 11 and 12 o'clock the Pri{{ls}}oner was taken to the u{{ls}}ual Place of Execution, where after {{ls}}ome time {{ls}}pent in prayer he was {{ls}}uddenly launched into eternity.

{{right|Taylor, Printer.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{c|{{xxx-larger|{{uc|William Booth,}}}}}}

{{c|{{larger|Who was Executed at {{uc|Stafford}}, on Saturday Aug. 15, 1812.}}}}

{{c|{{x-larger|For Counterfeiting Forged Bank of England Notes}}}}

{{Custom rule|sp|40|lzt|40|sp|40}}

{{di|W}}{{uc|illiam Booth}}, the unfortunate malefactor who has this day terminated his exi{{ls}}tence to the offended laws of his country, was born of re{{ls}}pectable parents near Henly-in-Arden where his father is {{ls}}till living. He was about 33 years of age, and was brought up to no trade, and his parents indulged him in everything he wanted.

The crime for which he {{ls}}o ju{{ls}}tly forfeited his life, was for having in his po{{ls}}{{ls}}e{{ls}}{{ls}}ion without lawful excu{{ls}}e, a frame, mould, and in{{ls}}trument, for the making of paper, with the words &quot;Bank of England&quot; vi{{ls}}ible in the {{ls}}ub{{ls}}tance of the paper, and with having made or cau{{ls}}ed to be made, divers {{ls}}heets of paper in the {{ls}}ub{{ls}}tance of which the {{ls}}aid words &quot;Bank of England&quot; were vi{{ls}}ible, and with having the {{ls}}aid paper in his po{{ls}}{{ls}}e{{ls}}{{ls}}ion without lawful excu{{ls}}e; and with forging divers Bank-Notes for 10l. 5l. and 1l. each, and divers blank bank notes, for the like {{ls}}ums, and al{{ls}}o for coining divers pieces of coin re{{ls}}embling {{ls}}ilver Dollars and Bank Tokens; and for forging the {{ls}}tamp or die to denote the duty of four pence; and al{{ls}}o for forging divers promi{{ls}}{{ls}}ory notes of Me{{ls}}{{ls}}rs. Raikes and Co. Ea{{ls}}t Riding Bank, Hull, for the payment of one guinea each.

In the Year 1808 he was taken up on {{ls}}u{{ls}}picion of having murdered his brother, at {{SIC|Awl|Hall}} End, in the pari{{ls}}h of Wooten Wawen, but the evidence not appearing clear again{{ls}}t him, he was accordingly acquitted.

It appeared in the trial that J. Linwood con{{ls}}table of {{abbr|Birm.|Birmingham}} in con{{ls}}equence of {{ls}}ome information he had received, went to the pri{{ls}}oner's hou{{ls}}e on 16 of March, with 10 {{ls}}pecial con{{ls}}tables &amp; 7 Dragoons—{{ls}}topt at the Boars Head Perry {{SIC|Bar|Barr}}, about a minute on their way thither—pri{{ls}}oner's hou{{ls}}e is al{{ls}}o at Perry Bar apparently an old Farm hou{{ls}}e, and 2 or 300 yards from any other dwelling. He de{{ls}}cribed the manner in which the hou{{ls}}e was blockaded, there being 3 doors in the pa{{ls}}{{ls}}age leading to the parlour, all very {{ls}}trong and fa{{ls}}tened with {{ls}}olid {{ls}}quare oak and iron bars and the windows were lined with wrought iron and al{{ls}}o barred, {{ls}}o that it was almo{{ls}}t invulnerable to the attacks of any a{{ls}}{{ls}}ailant. The po{{ls}}{{ls}}e being unable to obtain admittance into the lower rooms by rea{{ls}}on of the doors and windows being {{ls}}o {{ls}}trongly barricaded, &amp; the windows of the chamber being al{{ls}}o {{ls}}ecured by iron bars, &amp;c {{ls}}o that they could not get in there Chilling{{ls}}worth one of the Brirm. a{{ls}}{{ls}}i{{ls}}tants to the con{{ls}}tables, proceeded up a ladder in front of the hou{{ls}}e. On going up the ladder he {{ls}}aw the pri{{ls}}oner in the chamber over the parlour—he came up to the window—witne{{ls}}s a{{ls}}ked him if he would let him in—pri{{ls}}oner {{ls}}aid he would ju{{ls}}t now—witne{{ls}}s then broke the gla{{ls}}s, and the pri{{ls}}oner went to the middle of the room, and witne{{ls}}s {{ls}}aw him take {{ls}}ome papers from a rolling pre{{ls}}s that was fixed on a bench in the middle of the room, the papers appeared to be the {{ls}}ize of bank notes—{{ls}}aw the pri{{ls}}oner put them on a fire. Witne{{ls}}s then a{{ls}}cended the ladder to the garret window, and with much difficulty forced him{{ls}}elf through it into the garret and others of his party followed. After he had entered the garret he jumped thro' a trap door onto the room where Booth was when he went up the ladder, but Booth at the {{ls}}ame time went thro' another trap door into the parlour below. Witne{{ls}}s remained in the chamber, and found burnt paper in the fire place. 3 other per{{ls}}ons came to him, &amp; he broke the wall over the fireplace, and took burnt papers out of the chimney—one was but very little burnt. The note was produced in Court and {{ls}}worn to.&lt;!—proofread to here by Pete F—&gt;

John Ingley had been in the pri{{ls}}oner's employ {{ls}}ince Chri{{ls}}tmas la{{ls}}t. The pri{{ls}}oner occupied 200 acres of land. Since he came to pri{{ls}}oner the windows of the parlour &amp; 2 chambers had been {{ls}}trengthened. Witne{{ls}}s was taken to work in the hou{{ls}}e about ten days before pri{{ls}}oner was apprehended. Before that time worked in the barn. Recollects Dorothy Ingley coming in the hou{{ls}}e on the 16th—and that {{abbr|Eliz.|Elizabeth}} Chidlow went and rapped at the parlour door in con{{ls}}equence of Dorothy Ingley {{ls}}peaking to her.—Booth came out, and {{ls}}aid, &quot;God woman what bother have you brought here?&quot; Chidlow {{ls}}aid the runners were coming. Booth {{ls}}aid it was a {{abbr|d——d|damned}} lie—they dar{{ls}}t not come there. Walked back into the parlour &amp; called witne{{ls}}s after him—gave him a {{ls}}mall trunk (which was produced)—told him the things that were in and were done, and he mu{{ls}}t go and plant it on the far {{ls}}ide the ground—the trunk {{SIC|war|was}} locked—he dug a hole in a field and buried it; he had been directed by the Pri{{ls}}oner to hide two copper-Plates on the Tue{{ls}}day before he was apprehended; he wrapt them in a cloth and buried them in a ditch; {{ls}}ame day he was ordered to hide a {{ls}}ingle plate which he hid in the {{ls}}ame manner. Mrs. Booth al{{ls}}o gave him Plates when Pri{{ls}}oner was abled, which he hid in the thatch of a wheat rick. Booth was then in bed he had tumbled down a trap door that morning &amp; hurt him{{ls}}elf—witne{{ls}}s was taken up on the Friday after the Pri{{ls}}oner. When he gave information, &amp; di{{ls}}covered where the articles were concealed.

Jo{{ls}}eph Chirm, {{SIC|head borough|head borough constable}} of Birm. proved the finding {{SIC|of the of the|of the}} trunk and Plates.—They were Notes of different value, and in a large amount. There were be{{ls}}ides 13 blanks, with the Bank of England water mark.

Wm. Bridges &amp; Wm. Brewer Paper and Paper-mould makers to the Bank of England proved that part of the Bills found in the trunk were made from the mould which had been produced. The Pri{{ls}}oner's Coun{{ls}}el took {{ls}}everal legal objections, which were over-ruled. The jury with very little he{{ls}}itation pronounced a Verdict of {{uc|Guilty}}. The Judge then pa{{ls}}{{ls}}ed {{ls}}entence on Booth in the following words{{Nowrap|;{{Bar|2}}}}

{{fine block|&quot;William Booth, you {{ls}}tand here to receive the judgement of the Court for two capital offences, of which a Jury have found you Guilty: it is not nece{{ls}}{{ls}}ary for me to {{ls}}peak of the other indictments again{{ls}}t you, under {{ls}}uch circum{{ls}}tances with which you have been indicted, you can have little rea{{ls}}on to expect that the mercy of the law will be extended to you: I can hold out no hope of that expectation, but I hope you will now do that which I greatly fear you have hitherto neglected—that is that you will, by humble and devout prayer and contrition, endeavour to prepare your{{ls}}elf for that great and dreadful day, when before a judgement {{ls}}eat far more awful than any earthly Tribunal, you will be called upon to give an account of your actions in this world; the {{ls}}hort interval that can be allowed to you between this time and that of putting into execution the {{ls}}entence which the law directs me to pronounce upon you, I tru{{ls}}t you will employ in that preparation: it now only remains with me to pa{{ls}}s that {{ls}}entence, which is—that you William Booth, be taken from hence to the place from whence you came, and from thence to the place of Execution, there to be hanged by the neck until you are dead, and the Lord have mercy on your Soul!&quot;}}

The Pri{{ls}}oner heard his {{ls}}entence without di{{ls}}may &amp; at the conclu{{ls}}ion bowed re{{ls}}pectfully to the Court.

Between 11 and 12 o'clock the Pri{{ls}}oner was taken to the u{{ls}}ual Place of Execution, where after {{ls}}ome time {{ls}}pent in prayer he was {{ls}}uddenly launched into eternity.

{{right|Taylor, Printer.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="8471" sha1="qipc5scfk1v74uf146q875til2qgf0w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{larger|The {{uc|trial}} and {{uc|execution of}}}}}}

{{c|{{xxx-larger|{{uc|William Booth,}}}}}}

{{c|{{larger|Who was Executed at {{uc|Stafford}}, on Saturday Aug. 15, 1812.}}}}

{{c|{{x-larger|For Counterfeiting Forged Bank of England Notes}}}}

{{Custom rule|sp|40|lzt|40|sp|40}}

{{di|W}}{{uc|illiam Booth}}, the unfortunate malefactor who has this day terminated his exi{{ls}}tence to the offended laws of his country, was born of re{{ls}}pectable parents near Henly-in-Arden where his father is {{ls}}till living. He was about 33 years of age, and was brought up to no trade, and his parents indulged him in everything he wanted.

The crime for which he {{ls}}o ju{{ls}}tly forfeited his life, was for having in his po{{ls}}{{ls}}e{{ls}}{{ls}}ion without lawful excu{{ls}}e, a frame, mould, and in{{ls}}trument, for the making of paper, with the words &quot;Bank of England&quot; vi{{ls}}ible in the {{ls}}ub{{ls}}tance of the paper, and with having made or cau{{ls}}ed to be made, divers {{ls}}heets of paper in the {{ls}}ub{{ls}}tance of which the {{ls}}aid words &quot;Bank of England&quot; were vi{{ls}}ible, and with having the {{ls}}aid paper in his po{{ls}}{{ls}}e{{ls}}{{ls}}ion without lawful excu{{ls}}e; and with forging divers Bank-Notes for 10l. 5l. and 1l. each, and divers blank bank notes, for the like {{ls}}ums, and al{{ls}}o for coining divers pieces of coin re{{ls}}embling {{ls}}ilver Dollars and Bank Tokens; and for forging the {{ls}}tamp or die to denote the duty of four pence; and al{{ls}}o for forging divers promi{{ls}}{{ls}}ory notes of Me{{ls}}{{ls}}rs. Raikes and Co. Ea{{ls}}t Riding Bank, Hull, for the payment of one guinea each.

In the Year 1808 he was taken up on {{ls}}u{{ls}}picion of having murdered his brother, at {{SIC|Awl|Hall}} End, in the pari{{ls}}h of Wooten Wawen, but the evidence not appearing clear again{{ls}}t him, he was accordingly acquitted.

It appeared in the trial that J. Linwood con{{ls}}table of {{abbr|Birm.|Birmingham}} in con{{ls}}equence of {{ls}}ome information he had received, went to the pri{{ls}}oner's hou{{ls}}e on 16 of March, with 10 {{ls}}pecial con{{ls}}tables &amp; 7 Dragoons—{{ls}}topt at the Boars Head Perry {{SIC|Bar|Barr}}, about a minute on their way thither—pri{{ls}}oner's hou{{ls}}e is al{{ls}}o at Perry Bar apparently an old Farm hou{{ls}}e, and 2 or 300 yards from any other dwelling. He de{{ls}}cribed the manner in which the hou{{ls}}e was blockaded, there being 3 doors in the pa{{ls}}{{ls}}age leading to the parlour, all very {{ls}}trong and fa{{ls}}tened with {{ls}}olid {{ls}}quare oak and iron bars and the windows were lined with wrought iron and al{{ls}}o barred, {{ls}}o that it was almo{{ls}}t invulnerable to the attacks of any a{{ls}}{{ls}}ailant. The po{{ls}}{{ls}}e being unable to obtain admittance into the lower rooms by rea{{ls}}on of the doors and windows being {{ls}}o {{ls}}trongly barricaded, &amp; the windows of the chamber being al{{ls}}o {{ls}}ecured by iron bars, &amp;c {{ls}}o that they could not get in there Chilling{{ls}}worth one of the Brirm. a{{ls}}{{ls}}i{{ls}}tants to the con{{ls}}tables, proceeded up a ladder in front of the hou{{ls}}e. On going up the ladder he {{ls}}aw the pri{{ls}}oner in the chamber over the parlour—he came up to the window—witne{{ls}}s a{{ls}}ked him if he would let him in—pri{{ls}}oner {{ls}}aid he would ju{{ls}}t now—witne{{ls}}s then broke the gla{{ls}}s, and the pri{{ls}}oner went to the middle of the room, and witne{{ls}}s {{ls}}aw him take {{ls}}ome papers from a rolling pre{{ls}}s that was fixed on a bench in the middle of the room, the papers appeared to be the {{ls}}ize of bank notes—{{ls}}aw the pri{{ls}}oner put them on a fire. Witne{{ls}}s then a{{ls}}cended the ladder to the garret window, and with much difficulty forced him{{ls}}elf through it into the garret and others of his party followed. After he had entered the garret he jumped thro' a trap door onto the room where Booth was when he went up the ladder, but Booth at the {{ls}}ame time went thro' another trap door into the parlour below. Witne{{ls}}s remained in the chamber, and found burnt paper in the fire place. 3 other per{{ls}}ons came to him, &amp; he broke the wall over the fireplace, and took burnt papers out of the chimney—one was but very little burnt. The note was produced in Court and {{ls}}worn to.&lt;!-- proofread to here by Pete F --&gt;

John Ingley had been in the pri{{ls}}oner's employ {{ls}}ince Chri{{ls}}tmas la{{ls}}t. The pri{{ls}}oner occupied 200 acres of land. Since he came to pri{{ls}}oner the windows of the parlour &amp; 2 chambers had been {{ls}}trengthened. Witne{{ls}}s was taken to work in the hou{{ls}}e about ten days before pri{{ls}}oner was apprehended. Before that time worked in the barn. Recollects Dorothy Ingley coming in the hou{{ls}}e on the 16th—and that {{abbr|Eliz.|Elizabeth}} Chidlow went and rapped at the parlour door in con{{ls}}equence of Dorothy Ingley {{ls}}peaking to her.—Booth came out, and {{ls}}aid, &quot;God woman what bother have you brought here?&quot; Chidlow {{ls}}aid the runners were coming. Booth {{ls}}aid it was a {{abbr|d——d|damned}} lie—they dar{{ls}}t not come there. Walked back into the parlour &amp; called witne{{ls}}s after him—gave him a {{ls}}mall trunk (which was produced)—told him the things that were in and were done, and he mu{{ls}}t go and plant it on the far {{ls}}ide the ground—the trunk {{SIC|war|was}} locked—he dug a hole in a field and buried it; he had been directed by the Pri{{ls}}oner to hide two copper-Plates on the Tue{{ls}}day before he was apprehended; he wrapt them in a cloth and buried them in a ditch; {{ls}}ame day he was ordered to hide a {{ls}}ingle plate which he hid in the {{ls}}ame manner. Mrs. Booth al{{ls}}o gave him Plates when Pri{{ls}}oner was abled, which he hid in the thatch of a wheat rick. Booth was then in bed he had tumbled down a trap door that morning &amp; hurt him{{ls}}elf—witne{{ls}}s was taken up on the Friday after the Pri{{ls}}oner. When he gave information, &amp; di{{ls}}covered where the articles were concealed.

Jo{{ls}}eph Chirm, {{SIC|head borough|head borough constable}} of Birm. proved the finding {{SIC|of the of the|of the}} trunk and Plates.—They were Notes of different value, and in a large amount. There were be{{ls}}ides 13 blanks, with the Bank of England water mark.

Wm. Bridges &amp; Wm. Brewer Paper and Paper-mould makers to the Bank of England proved that part of the Bills found in the trunk were made from the mould which had been produced. The Pri{{ls}}oner's Coun{{ls}}el took {{ls}}everal legal objections, which were over-ruled. The jury with very little he{{ls}}itation pronounced a Verdict of {{uc|Guilty}}. The Judge then pa{{ls}}{{ls}}ed {{ls}}entence on Booth in the following words{{Nowrap|;{{Bar|2}}}}

{{fine block|&quot;William Booth, you {{ls}}tand here to receive the judgement of the Court for two capital offences, of which a Jury have found you Guilty: it is not nece{{ls}}{{ls}}ary for me to {{ls}}peak of the other indictments again{{ls}}t you, under {{ls}}uch circum{{ls}}tances with which you have been indicted, you can have little rea{{ls}}on to expect that the mercy of the law will be extended to you: I can hold out no hope of that expectation, but I hope you will now do that which I greatly fear you have hitherto neglected—that is that you will, by humble and devout prayer and contrition, endeavour to prepare your{{ls}}elf for that great and dreadful day, when before a judgement {{ls}}eat far more awful than any earthly Tribunal, you will be called upon to give an account of your actions in this world; the {{ls}}hort interval that can be allowed to you between this time and that of putting into execution the {{ls}}entence which the law directs me to pronounce upon you, I tru{{ls}}t you will employ in that preparation: it now only remains with me to pa{{ls}}s that {{ls}}entence, which is—that you William Booth, be taken from hence to the place from whence you came, and from thence to the place of Execution, there to be hanged by the neck until you are dead, and the Lord have mercy on your Soul!&quot;}}

The Pri{{ls}}oner heard his {{ls}}entence without di{{ls}}may &amp; at the conclu{{ls}}ion bowed re{{ls}}pectfully to the Court.

Between 11 and 12 o'clock the Pri{{ls}}oner was taken to the u{{ls}}ual Place of Execution, where after {{ls}}ome time {{ls}}pent in prayer he was {{ls}}uddenly launched into eternity.

{{right|Taylor, Printer.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Origin and history of Glasgow Streets.djvu/29</title>
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      <text bytes="2068" sha1="iupcuu1y8520rc025uggygs40vv9mox" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;AndrewOfWyntoun&quot; /&gt;{{c|17}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Port, so that they might benefit by a sight of the permanent gallows (which stood on the Butts) ''en passant''. &quot;Senex&quot; mentions that he saw a Highland woman escorted to Cranstonhill. This must have been an exceptional case, and may have been done to give her a chance of getting back to her native wilds. The true solution of the name is to be found in two Gaelic words—''druim odhar''—pronounced somewhat like &quot;drumover,&quot; and meaning the grey ridge. Peden, the Scottish prophet, prognosticated that the Cross of Glasgow would ultimately be on this spot. At the present rate of extension in this direction his prediction seems likely to be fulfilled at no very remote date.

{{sc|Crosshill}} derives its name from an ancient cross which stood on a height still named the Cross Hill. This monument was about ten feet high and three-and-a-half wide, and bore a sculptured representation of Christ entering Jerusalem riding on an ass. It was removed by some vandals about the end of the eighteenth century.

{{Sc|Crossmyloof}}. The origin of this name has been ascribed to Queen Mary. The village, however, was not in existence in her time, and the lands went under that name long anterior to the Battle of Langside. It is said by A. M. Scott, the historian of Langside, to be a compound of Latin and Gaelic in connection with a cross of elm wood with which it was customaiy in Catholic times to mark the boundary of the parish.

{{Sc|Crownpoint Road}} deiives its name from Crown Point House, built here in 1761 by William Alexander, the name being that of a famous stronghold on the Canadian frontier which was taken from the French by General Amerhst.

{{Sc|Cumberland Street}} (Hutchesontow^n) is marked on M'Arthur's map, made from actual survey in 1778, as Shields Lone.

{{Sc|Cumberland Street}} (Calton) is intersected by Canning Street, and was originally known as North and South Cumberland Streets respectively. There are no less than four thoroughfares of this name in the city, and why the Butcher of Culloden comes to be so&lt;noinclude&gt;{{em|2}}{{smaller|B}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2068" sha1="38xlmdtby6e9c5109o5dcdxvlg09hbw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;AndrewOfWyntoun&quot; /&gt;{{c|17}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Port, so that they might benefit by a sight of the permanent gallows (which stood on the Butts) ''en passant''. &quot;Senex&quot; mentions that he saw a Highland woman escorted to Cranstonhill. This must have been an exceptional case, and may have been done to give her a chance of getting back to her native wilds. The true solution of the name is to be found in two Gaelic words—''druim odhar''—pronounced somewhat like &quot;drumover,&quot; and meaning the grey ridge. Peden, the Scottish prophet, prognosticated that the Cross of Glasgow would ultimately be on this spot. At the present rate of extension in this direction his prediction seems likely to be fulfilled at no very remote date.

{{sc|Crosshill}} derives its name from an ancient cross which stood on a height still named the Cross Hill. This monument was about ten feet high and three-and-a-half wide, and bore a sculptured representation of Christ entering Jerusalem riding on an ass. It was removed by some vandals about the end of the eighteenth century.

{{Sc|Crossmyloof}}. The origin of this name has been ascribed to Queen Mary. The village, however, was not in existence in her time, and the lands went under that name long anterior to the Battle of Langside. It is said by A. M. Scott, the historian of Langside, to be a compound of Latin and Gaelic in connection with a cross of elm wood with which it was customaiy in Catholic times to mark the boundary of the parish.

{{Sc|Crownpoint Road}} derives its name from Crown Point House, built here in 1761 by William Alexander, the name being that of a famous stronghold on the Canadian frontier which was taken from the French by General Amerhst.

{{Sc|Cumberland Street}} (Hutchesontow^n) is marked on M'Arthur's map, made from actual survey in 1778, as Shields Lone.

{{Sc|Cumberland Street}} (Calton) is intersected by Canning Street, and was originally known as North and South Cumberland Streets respectively. There are no less than four thoroughfares of this name in the city, and why the Butcher of Culloden comes to be so&lt;noinclude&gt;{{em|2}}{{smaller|B}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Legal Bibliography, Numbers 1 to 12, 1881 to 1890.djvu/47</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3318792</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133256</id>
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        <username>BD2412</username>
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      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: EEPO →  REPO, EPOET → EPORT (2)</comment>
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      <text bytes="14249" sha1="8b7p7s9knf7ckov6hoyfp6ibjtotf1w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;James500&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;A PAGE OF BARGAINS. 
ea:re books. 
Bacon (Francis) Resuscitatio ; or bringin!; into 
Piiblick Light Several Pieces of his Works (Huherto 
Sleeping). 3d ediiion. Foiio, boards. London, 1671. $3.5 
Bentham (Jeremyi. Rationale of Judicial Evidence. 
5 v.il^. Half cair London, 1827- 20.C 
Black Book of the Admiralty. Containing all the 
ancient Statutes of the Admiralty and famous marine 
laws. 4 vols. Boards. London. i4-c 
Blackstone (William). The Great Charter and 
Charter of the Forest. 4to. Old calf. Fine engravings. 
Oxford, 1759. 6.C 
Bracton (Henricus de) De Legibus et Consuetu- 
dinibus Anglia; libri quinque, etc. Folio, old calf. 
London, 1569. lo.c 
Britton. 2d ediiion. By Wingate. i5mo. Old calf. 
London, 1640. S-c 
Gary (Henry). A Commentary on the Tenures of Lit- 
tleton, written prior to the publication of Coke upon 
Littleton. From &lt;he Harleian Manuscripts. 8vo, 
boards. London, 1829. 6.c 
Chitty's General Practice. 4 vols. Sheep. Phila- 
English by Bryant 
Barrett. With a succinct account of all the Ancient 
Codes of Law. 2 vols. Boards. 10. c 
Collectanea Juridiea ; or. Tracts relating to the Law 
and Constitution of England. 2 vols. Calf. London, 
n.d. , 5.C 
Corpus Juris Civilis. Five huge folio volumes, with 
Glosses, &amp;c. Lugduni, 1548. 15. c 
Criminal Law : Reports of the Commission on. 8 
parts, bound in 2 vols. Folio, half calf. London, 
1834-45- Sx 
Dane's Abridgment of American Law. (Con- 
taining notes of many Massachusetts cases, &amp;c., not in 
the Reports. ) 9 vols. Sheep. Boston. 25. c 
Doctor and Student. English black-letter. i6mo, 
calf. 1721. 2.C 
Duke (George). The Law of Charitable Uses and 
Mortmain. Edited by Bridgman. Calf. London, 1805. 7.= 
Fitzherbard (Anthony). The Newe Booke of Jus- 
tyces of Peas. (English black-letter.) i6mo, old calf. 
London, 1541. 6.&lt; 
Fitzherbert (Anthony). The New Natura Brevium. 
9th edition. 2 vols. Calf. London, 1794. 5.C 
Fleta ; seu, Commentarius Juris .'
glicani. Seidell's 
edition. Small qtiarto, old calf. London, 1685. 5.( 
Fortescue (Sir John). De Laudibus Legum Anglis. 
241110. old calf. London, 1616. 2.&lt; 
Glanville. Tractatus de Legibus et Consuetudinibus 
Regni Anglic. i6mo, old calf. London, 1573. 5.C 
GodoIphin&quot;(John). Repertorium Canonicum ; or, An 
Abridgment of the Ecclesiastical Laws. 3d edition. 
Small quarto, calf. London, 1687. 3.1 
Hoffman (David). A Course of Legal Study. 2d edi- 
tion. 2 vols, ill I. Baltimore, 1S36. 4.( 
Illingworth on Forestalling and Kegrating. 
Calf. London, 1800. 2.( 
Juridical Society Papers. 4 vols. Half calf. Lon- 
don, 1S58-73. [This collection contains essays on 
interesting legal topics by the most eminent English 
jurists, such as Best, Maine, Joshua Williams, Fitzjanies 
Stephen, Westlake, Leake, Denman, Lushington, and 
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Charles C. Soule, 26 Pemherton Square, Boston, Mass,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Indian Penal Code - Morgan and MacPherson - 1863.djvu/15</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3343368</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133663</id>
      <parentid>12615990</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:18:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133663</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1962" sha1="7ylksa6u9ibgkpx7qitowf7vmpqj7hb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Three6serpent&quot; /&gt;{{rh||EXTRA-TERRITORIAL OPERATION.|5}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ries.&quot; (s. 43). These are the defined limits of the legislative 
power. 

Accordingly &quot;within and throughout&quot; British India, the 
Penal Code is applicable to all persons thus made subject to 
tills authority of the Govenor-General of India in Council. 
Whether such persons are the subjects of Her Majesty or the 
subjects of a foreign stale, they all owe obedience to the law. 
A foreigner who enters the British territories and thus accepts 
the protection of our laws, virtually gives an assurance of his 
fidelity and obedience to them and submits himself to their 
operation. 

All existing penal laws whatsoever, except such as are referred 
to in the last section of this chapter, are superseded by the 
Code to this extent, that persons liable to punishment under 
any of the provisions of the Code cannot be punished by any 
other law. The words &quot;and not otherwise&quot; seem virtually 
to repeal all former laws for the punishment of any offence 
which is made punishable by this law. But if there are acts 
or omissions made penal by any existing law, and no provision 
of this Code is found to reach them, that law will continue 
at present in force. 

Offences committed prior to the 1st of January, 1862, will 
not come under the Code, at whatever time the offender may 
be arrested or tried. . 

Punishment of offences committed beyond, but which by law may be tried within the Territories.

3. Any person liable, by any law passed by the 
Governor General of India in 
Council, to be tried for an 
offence Committed beyond the 
limits of the said Territories, shall be dealt with according to the provisions of this Code for any act 
committed beyond the said Territories, in the same 
manner as if such act had been committed within the 
said Territories. 

This section relates to the extra-territorial operation of the 
Code. The words &quot;for any act&quot; Ac. extend also to illegal 
omissions. (Section 32).
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Indian Penal Code - Morgan and MacPherson - 1863.djvu/527</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3343399</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133664</id>
      <parentid>10488455</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:19:20Z</timestamp>
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        <id>8435</id>
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      <text bytes="1861" sha1="swo3rtvgdpgnmp4v94mm70i5x32arfu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Three6serpent&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;INDEX. 517 
TOKTURE 
in order to extort property, XVI. 327, 329, 294», 296 
to constrain to illegal act, t6.,... ... ... ih. 
to extort confession, XVI. 330, 331, ... ... 296 
or restitution of property, i6., ... ••• %h. 
TEADE 
public servant unlawfully engaging in, IX. 168, ... 140 
TRADE MARK 
what is a, XVIII. 478, ... ... ... 422 
&quot; using a false trade mark,&quot; what constitutes, XVIII. 
480, ... ... ... 423 
using a false trade mark with intent to deceive, XVIII. 
482, ... ... ... ... 424 
counterfeiting a, ordinarily used by another, XVIII. 483, ih. 
counterfeiting mark used by public servant to denote 
the manufacture, &amp;c., of property, XVII. 484, ... 425 
possessing die, plate, &lt;&amp;;c., for counterfeiting, XVIII. 485, %h, 
possessing a false, with intent, &amp;c., »&amp;., .. ... i5. 
selling goods with false, knowing, &lt;&amp;c., XVIII. 486, ••• 426 
making false mark on any goods, XVIII. 487, ... 427 
receptacle for containing goods, ih.^ ih. 
making use of such false mark, XVIII. 488, ... ib, 
. See — Forgery mark. JProperty mark. 
TRANSLATOR 
sworn, translating falsely, is guilty of giving &quot; false 
evidence,&quot; XI. 191, lllustr. (e.) ... ,., 157 
See — Evidence. 
TRANSPORTATION 
place of, ... ... ... ... 43 
sentence of, may be commuted, III. 65, ... ... 32 — 42 
European or American to be sentenced to penal servitude, 
instead of. III. 66, ... ... ... 43 
fractions of terms of, how to be calculated, III. 67, ... ib. 
person sentenced to, how dealt with until transported, 
III. 58, ... ... ... ... ib. 
may be awarded, instead of imprisonment when, III. 
69, ... ... ... 30—40,43 
unlawful return from, XI. 226, ... ... 184 
See — Fu/nUhment, 
TREASON 
English law of high, ... ... ... 100 
TRESPASS 
See~OtmtnaZ Trespass. 
TRUST 
See — Breach of Trust. 
TRUSTEE 
when liable criminally for^breach of truet,.., ... 366&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Indian Penal Code - Morgan and MacPherson - 1863.djvu/524</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3343402</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133666</id>
      <parentid>10488458</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:19:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>8435</id>
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      <text bytes="1718" sha1="2gxwkpft16oz2r3mlxoirneix1i8my7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Three6serpent&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;514 INDEX. 
Page
ROBBERY— Continued. 
punishment for, with attempt to cause death or grievous 
hurt, ib, .. ... ... 356 
if armed with deadly weapons, XVII. 398, ib. 
belonging to or being associated for, XVIL 
40J, ... ... ... 357 
See — Daeoitu, Extortion, Private defence. Theft. 
RUMOURS 
circulating false^ XXII. 505, ... ... 451 
SAFETY 
public, XIV. 268, ... ... ... 203 
act shewing want of regard for personal, XVI. 336, 337, 299, 300 
causing grievous hurt by such an act, XVI. 338, ... 300 
See — Adulteration. Infection. Navigation. Nuisance, 
Biding.. River. 
SAILOR 
See — Assault. Desertion. Insubordination. Mutiny. Pun^ 
ishment, 
SEA 
offences committed at, ... ... ... 10 
SEA-MARK 
destroying or removing Ac., XVI I. 433, ... ... 396 
exhibiting false &lt;S^., 281, ... ... ... 210 
See — Mischief. 
SEAL 
making or counterfeiting a, with intent to forge a will 
or valuable security, XVIII. 472, ... ... 419 
to commit any other kind of forgery, XVIII. 
473, ... ... ... 420 
possessing a counterfeit seal with intent to forge, &lt;&amp;Cy 
XV11I.473, ... ... ... ... 420 
to commit any other kind of forgery, XVIII. 
473, ... ... ... V)* 
See — Forgery. Government Stamp. 
SECTION 
what the word denotes, II. 50, ... ... 81 
SECURITY 
See—&quot; Valuable Security,&quot;
SEDUCTION 
abducting or kidnapping a woman with a view to, XVI. 
366, ... ... ... ...318,4^8 
concealing persons so adducted, XVI. 368, 319 
SENTENCE 
See— Commutation. Forfeiture. Punishment Remission. 
SERVANT 
possession of, is possession of the master, when, TI, 27, 
Explan., ... ... ... ... 23 
theft by, of master's property, XVII. 381, ... 342 
criminal breach of trust by, XVII. 408, ... ... 368 
See — Public Servant,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Moby-Dick (1851) US edition.djvu/25</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3399225</id>
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      <text bytes="1820" sha1="fic79umiu62q9pdg5ikc3t3x4zt75y0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;PokemonNonfan&quot; /&gt;{{rh|xvii|EXTRACTS.|xvii}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;Spain——a great whale stranded on the shores of Europe.&quot; &lt;br /&gt;
{{float right|''Edmund Burke.'' (''somewhere''.)}}

{{-}}
&quot;A tenth branch of the king's ordinary revenue, said to be 
grounded on the consideration of his guarding and protecting 
the seas from pirates and robbers, is the right to ''royal'' fish, 
which are whale and sturgeon. And these, when either thrown 
ashore or caught near the coast, are the property of the king.&quot;&lt;br /&gt; 
{{float right|''Blackstone.''}}

{{-}}
{{block center|
&quot;Soon to the sport of death the crews repair: &lt;br /&gt;
Rodmond unerring o'er his head suspends &lt;br /&gt;
The barbed steel, and every turn attends.&quot; &lt;br /&gt;}}
{{float right|''[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer's]] [[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]. ''}}

{{-}}

{{block center|
&quot;Bright shone the roofs, the domes, the spires, &lt;br /&gt;
And rockets blew self driven, &lt;br /&gt;
To hang their momentary fire &lt;br /&gt;
Around the vault of heaven. &lt;br /&gt;
{{-}}

&quot;So fire with water to compare, &lt;br /&gt;
The ocean serves on high, &lt;br /&gt;
Up-spouted by a whale in air, &lt;br /&gt;
To express unwieldy joy.&quot; }}&lt;br /&gt;
{{float right|''Cowper, on the Queen's Visit to London. ''}}

{{-}}

&quot;Ten or fifteen gallons of blood are thrown out of the heart 
at a stroke, with immense velocity.&quot; &lt;br /&gt;
{{float right|''John Hunter's account of the dissection of a whale.'' (''A small sized one''.)}}

{{-}}

&quot;The aorta of a whale is larger in the bore than the main 
pipe of the water-works at London Bridge, and the water roaring in its passage through that pipe is inferior in impetus and 
velocity to the blood gushing from the whale's heart.&quot; &lt;br /&gt;
{{float right|''Paley's Theology. ''}}

{{-}}

&quot;The whale is a mammiferous animal without hind feet.&quot; &lt;br /&gt;
{{float right|''Baron Cuvier. ''}}
{{-}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{fs85/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of regeneration may not yet have weakened it sufficiently to allow of its destruction and removal.:

We will try to have our cases fully prepared for argument when reached in the call of the calendar, which will be about next January, and after doing our best in them will have to trust for success if not in this in some other effort. 

{{right|Very truly yours,{{gap|3em}}{{sc|Francis Miller.}}|2em}} {{fs85/e}}

Miss Anthony gave the incidents of her arrest and trial to an immense audience in the evening, moving them alternately to laughter and indignation. At the close of this convention a large reception was given to the friends of woman suffrage by Dr. Clemence Lozier at her hospitable home in 34th street, New York. Her spacious parlors were crowded until a late hour. The occasion was enlivened with music, readings, and short, spicy speeches.

The National Woman Suffrage Association held its fifth convention at Washington in January, 1874. Before the arrival of the principal actors, the hall was filled with spectators. Soon after 11 o'clock the President, accompanied by a large number of speakers&lt;ref&gt;Mrs. Nettie C. Tabor, Cal.; Frances Ellen Burr, Hartford, Conn.; Mrs. Elizabeth B. Phelps, N. Y.; Mrs. E. Langdon, N. Y.; Jane B. Archibald, D. C.; Miss Jennie V. Jewell, D. C.; Mrs. Adeliarl Gardiner, Baltimore; Kate C. Harris, Baltimore; Miss Laura Ewing, Baltimore; Phoebe W. Couzins; Edward M. Davis, Philadelphia; Matilda Joslyn Gage, Fayetteville, N. Y.; Lillie Devereux Blake, New York City; Ruth C. Dennison, D. C.; Sara Andrews Spencer, D. C.; Dr. Clemence S. Lozier, New York City; Belva A. Lockwood, Virginia L. Vaughn, James K. Wilcox, and the Hutchinson Family.&lt;/ref&gt; and friends, came on the stage. Many interesting letters were received&lt;ref&gt;Letters were received from Paulina Wright Davis, Providence, R. I.; Virginia L. Minor, St. Louis, Mo.; Hon. E. G. Lapham, Canandaigua, N. Y.; Vice-Pres. Henry Wilson, Natick, Mass.; John Van-Vhoris, Rochester, N. Y.; Dr. James C. Jackson, Dansville, N. Y.; Hon. Henry R. Selden, Rochester, N. Y.; Hon. John A. Kaseon, Iowa; Thomas Weptworth Higginson, Newport, R.I.; Ernestine L. Rose, London, England; Dr. Laura Ross Wolcott, Milwaukee, Wisconsin; Carrie S. Burnham, Philadelphia, Pa.; Lewis C. Smith, Rochester, N. Y.; Asenath Coolidge, Watertown, N. Y.; Priscilla Holmos Drake, Alabama; Laura De Force Gordon, Californian; George F. Downing, Washington, D. C.; The Free Thinkers Club of Milwaukee; The Radical Democracy of Wisconsin:&lt;/ref&gt; and a series of resolutions&lt;ref name=D567&gt;''Resolved'', That this convention, representing as it does all portions of our country, cordially sympathizes with the proposed efforts of the women of the District of Columbia to secure the practical enjoyment of their constitutional right to vote, as declared by the Supreme Court of said District, by the passage of an act of Congress amending the organic law of the District by striking out the word &quot;male&quot; from the seventh section of said act; and we earnestly request our senators and representatives to support a bill providing for such an amendment by speech and vote.
{{pbri}}
''Resolved,'' That a committee of seven be appointed by the president of this convention to co-operate with the committee heretofore appointed by the women of the District of Columbia in their application to Congress for the passage of un act [[wikt:amendatory|amendatory]] of the organic act of said District, as above indicated.
{{pbri}}
''Resolved'', That among the important events in our struggle for the equal rights of woman we place the trial of Miss Susan B. Anthony before Hon. Ward Hunt, a judge of the Supreme Court of the United States, at Canandaigua, New York, in June last, on an {{hws|in|indictment}}&lt;/ref&gt; reported.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:History of Woman Suffrage Volume 4.djvu/92</title>
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{{fs85/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I want especially to notify the gentleman from Texas that we are not standing still on this matter. Eleven States—New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, New York, Michigan, Kentucky, Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado and Oregon—have authorized women to vote for school trustees and members of school boards. Kentucky extends this right to widows who have children and pay taxes. Women are nominated and voted for not only in the eleven States and three Territories, but in nearly all the Northern and Western States. Pennsylvania, Illinois, Iowa and other States have large numbers of women county superintendents of public schools. And let me say, for the benefit of the Democratic party, that in the great, progressive western State of Kansas the Democracy rose so high as to nominate and vote for a woman for State Superintendent of Public Instruction at the last election. So there has been a little growing away from those old ideas and notions, even among the Democracy. We are permitting women ta fill public offices. Why should they not participate in the election of officers who are to govern them? We require them to pay taxes and there are a great many burdens imposed upon them. Kansas, Michigan, Colorado and Nebraska have in recent years submitted the question of woman suffrage to a vote of the people and more than one-third of the electors of each voted in favor. Oregon has now a similar proposition pending.

By the laws of all the States women are required to pay taxes; but we are practically working on the theory that these women shall be taxed without the right of representation. Taxation without representation led to the separation of the colonies from the mother country. They were not so much opposed to being taxed as they were to being taxed without representation. The patriots of that day conceived the idea that there was a principle somewhere involved in the right of representation. So they evolved and formulated that Revolutionary maxim, &quot;Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute.&quot; The basis of that maxim was that they would not give to the payment of taxes without the right of representation. Revolution and war made representation and taxation correlative. But the States tax all women on their property. For illustration, 8,000 women of Boston and 34,000 in Massachusetts pay $2,000,000 of taxes, one-eleventh of the entire tax of that great and wealthy State. The same ratio will be found to prevail in all the other States.:

Progress has gone on elsewhere than in the United States. England has been moving forward in this matter, and we should not stand behind her in anything. . . . .

I am one of those who do not believe that to give to women common rights and privileges will degrade them, but on the contrary I believe it will ennoble them; and I believe further that to put them on an equality in the matter of rights and privileges with men will enhance their charms and not lessen their beauty.{{fs85/e}}

The vote resulted—yeas, 85; nays, 124; not voting, 112. Of&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:History of Woman Suffrage Volume 5.djvu/244</title>
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The Resolutions presented by Mr. Blackwell, chairman of the committee, covered a wide range of subjects, among them the following:

{{fs85/s}}In view of the fact that in only 14 of our States have married mothers any legal right to the custody, control and earnings of their minor children, we urge the women of the other States to work for laws giving to mothers equal rights with fathers.

The traffic in women and girls which is carried on in the United States and in other countries is a heinous blot upon civilization and we demand of Congress and our State Legislatures that every possible step be taken to suppress the infamous traffic in this country.

We urge upon Congress and State Legislatures the enactment of laws prohibiting the employment of children under 16 years of age in mines, stores or factories.

We favor the adoption of State amendments establishing direct legislation by the voters through the initiative and referendum.

Inasmuch as in the second Hague Peace Conference there will be offered the greatest opportunity in human history to lessen the burden of militarism, therefore we request the President of the United States to approve the recommendations for the action of that conference which were presented by the Inter-Parliamentary Union, to-wit: (1) An advisory world congress; (2) a general arbitration treaty; (3) the limitation of armaments; (4) protection of private property at sea in time of war; (5) investigation by an impartial commission of difficulties between nations before declaration of hostilities.{{fs85/e}}

The convention at one evening session listened to interesting addresses by Mrs. Mary E. Coggeshall, president of the Iowa Suffrage Association, Then and Now; Professor Emma M. Perkins of Western Reserve University (Ohio), Educational Ideals; Louis F. Post, editor of ''The Public,'' The Denatured Woman. Mrs. Avery gave a much enjoyed report of the Congress of the International Suffrage Alliance in Copenhagen the preceding August. On the last evening addresses were made by John Z. White of Chicago; Mrs. Upton on What Next? Miss Lexow on The Place of Equal Suffrage in Higher Education. Dr. Shaw closed the convention with a few eloquent words of encouragement, hope and prophecy for the success of the cause to which they gladly gave to the utmost their time, their labor and the best of everything they possessed.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{plainlist/s|hanging-indent=2em|style=font-size:90%;}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;*Post, Louis F, on Ethics of Suffrage, 18; 20; 205; 212.

*Potter, Eva, 556.

*Potter, Prof. Frances Squire, Women and the Vote, speech on coll. women's eve, 228; at Spokane, 246; masterly speech on Coll. Women and Democracy, 255-6; 260; elected nati. cor. secy, 261, 265; sends letter of regret from Natl. Suff. Bd. to Pres. Taft, 272; address on The Making of Democracy, 274; natl. cor. secy's. report, conv. gives rising vote, declines re-election, 281-2; on Res. Com, 289; 290.

*Pou, U. S. Rep. Edward W. (N. C.), chmn. Rules Com, 524; 548; 628; 633; for Wom. Suff. Com, 634-5.

*Pound, L. Annice, 109.

*Poyntz, Juliet Stuart, 283.

*Pratt, Mayor N. S, welcomes suff. dele. to Spokane, 244.

*Presidential Conventions, treatment of wom. suff, see Chapter XXIII.

*Presidential Suffrage, natl. assn's. early work for, 2, II; Mr. Blackwell's argument for, 12; right of Legis. to grant, 43; great value of, 62; Chief Justice Fuller's decision, 130; line of least resistance, 219; gained in Ills. and other States, power it gives women; first suggested by U. S. Sen. Hoar, 369-70; Ills. Sup. Ct. declares legality, 407; Natl. Exec. Council strongly endorses, 452; bills introduced in 1916, 495; Mrs. Catt declares grant by Legis. legal, 520; great &quot;drive&quot; for begun, 528; Natl. Assn. works for, victories gained, 539; great gains in 1918, 550-1; Mo. Legis. grants during natl. suff. conv; appeals to conv. from Iowa, Tenn. and Conn. to ask their Legis. for it, 559; 98,000 women ask for in Conn, 602; granted in many States, 602, 632, 643; effect on personnel of Cong, 643.

*Price, Ellen H. E, welcomes natl. suff. conv. to Phila, 33-4; 666.

*Price, Lucy J, 391; 467; 476; 548; 585.

*Primary Suffrage, in Texas, 551; in Ark, 632; in Texas, 641.

*Prince of Wales, decorates Amer. woman doctor for war service, 735. See Finley.

*''Progress'', natl. suff. organ, begun, 35; wide circulation, 60; 62,000 distrib, made a monthly, 162; changed to weekly, 205.

*Progressive Party, adopts wom, suff, xxi; women assist, 1912, 342; Natl. Conv. declares for Fed. Suff. Amend, 480; for wom. suff, 625; formed in Chicago, adopts wom. suff, women flock into it, 705–707; strong woman suffrage plank, 714

*Prohibition, Federal Amendment adopted, xxiii; vote for compared with vote for Suff. Amend, 449; submitted by Cong; suffs. see State's rights advocates voting for it, 537:

*Prohibition Party, wom. suff. in platform, 206; women assist, 1912, 342; Natl. Conv. declares for Fed. Suff. Amend, 480; accepts League of Women Voters' planks, 700; always for wom. suff, 702; 714.

*Proxies, natl. suff. conv. 1912, abolishes their voting, 341.

*Publishing Company, Woman Suffrage; see Natl. Wom. Suff. Pub. Co.

*Pyle, Mrs. John L, work in S. Dak, 420-1; describes successful campn, 494; 570; 669; offers res. against U. S. Sen. Wadsworth in natl. suff. conv, 692

{{Dhr}}

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*Queen Mary, cables Dr. Shaw thanks of British women to Woman's Com. of Council of Natl. Defense, 738.

*Queen Maud, of Norway, 247.

{{Dhr}}

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*Race Problem, Natl. Suff. Assn. declares its neutral position, 59; Mrs. Catt says each State must decide it, 83; U. S. Sen. Borah's opinion, 413. See Negroes.

*Rainey, Mrs. Henry T, 382.

*Raker, U. S. Rep. John E. (Calif.), wom. suff. clean cut question of right, 356; demands Com. on Wom. Suff. in Lower House, 388; at hearing in 1916, 504-5; introd. Fed. Amend. and res. for Wom. Suff. Com, 1917, 524; 548; introd, new res. for Fed. Suff. Amend, 562; presides at hearing, 577; interviews Pres. Wilson, 583; 628; chmn, new Com. on Wom. Suff, 634-5-6; for Fed. Elections Bill, 658.

*Raker, Mrs. John E 382.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{plainlist/s|hanging-indent=2em|style=font-size:90%;}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;*Robertson, Sir Forbes, 548.

*Robinson, State Sen. Helen Ring, in Ga, 29; in Col, 67; Ky, 208; Mass, 285; N. H, 404; Geneva, 863.

*Robinson, Lida P, 10.

*Roessing, Mrs. Frank M, see Penn. chap, 553 et seq; in West Va, 689; assists Intl. Alliance, 868.

*Roosevelt, President Theodore, appealed to for Fed. Amend. from Calif, 34; faint praise for wom. suff, 44; Del. women petition, 88; urges wom. suff. in Me, 241; 280: petitioned by Mich. women, 303; enrolls for wom. suff, 317; appeals to U. S. Sen. Moses for Fed. Suff. Amend, 408; N. J. women petition, 415; speaks for wom. suff. in New York, 450; advice as Governor, 454.

*Root, Elihu, 483.

*Roraback, John Henry, 76, 78, 8o.

*Rowe, Charlotte, in Del, 96; La, 232; N. H, 407, 409; Okla, 529; Texas, 641-2,

*Royden, A. Maude (Gt. Brit.), Md, 250; Budapest, 857-8; preaches in Geneva, 860.

*Ruhl, Mrs John L, 687; 693-4; 697.

*Rumsey, Mrs. Dexter P, 444; 448; 448; 456; 468; 475.

*Russell. Gov. Lee M. (Miss.), 339.

*Russia, efforts for wom. suff, Prof. Miliukov assists, women hold cong, elected, 788-9; 825.

*Ruutz-Rees, Caroline, 70.

*Rye, Gov. Tom C. (Tenn.), 599; 601; 603; 616.

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*Sacajawea, unveiling of Statue in Ore, 540-1.

*Safford, Rev. Mary A, work in Fla, 115, 119; Iowa, 183; Mass, 270.

*Salamon, Dr. Alice (Germany), 791.

*Sanderson, Annie Cobden (Gt. Brit.), 252; 273; 825; on “militants,” 855.

*Sanford, Prof. Maria, 322.

*Sapp, Bernice A, 674; 686.

*Sargent, Ellen Clark, see Calif. chap, 27 et seq; 52.

*Saskatchewan, work for wom. suff, 755.

*Schlingheyde, Clara, work in Calif, 28, 31, 50; for Intl. Suff. Alliance, 868.

*Schlumberger, pres, Mine. DeWitt, natl. suff. assn. of France, 800; 843; 854; 858; 860; appeals to League of Nations for wom. suff, 867.

*Schmidt, Prof. Nathaniel, 344; 444; 456.

*Schools for Citizenship, in Me, 246; Mo, 352; N. H, 408; S. C, 582; Wis, 706.

*Schools for Woman Suffrage, in Ala, 6; Fla, 116; Atlanta, 129, 130; Ind, 174; Iowa, 185; Kans, 204; Me, 238; Md, 265; Mich, 310; Neb, 379; N. J, 421; R. I, 570; S. C, 581; Va, 667; West Va, 688; Wis, 704.

*Schoonmaker, Nancy, 74; 245-6; 572; 706.

*Schurman, Pres. Jacob G, 485.

*Schwimmer, Rosika, in Ky, 208; Wis, 704; 812; 815; 826; 838; 844; Intl. Suff. Alliance Cong, in Hungary, 793; 849; 854; report for Hungary, 855; 857; countrywomen honor, 858, 865.

*Scott, Mrs. William Force, 44.

*Sellers, Kathryn, 109; 111.

*Seton, Mrs. Ernest T, 73-4.

*Severance, Caroline, M, 30-1; 40.

*Severance, Sarah, 34.

*Sewall, May Wright, lectures in Calif, 28; organizes in Ind, 171; work in Wis, 701; 772; at cong. in Budapest, 859.

*Sexton, Minola Graham, see N. J. chapter, 412 et seq.

*Shafroth, Gov. and U. S. Sen. John F, 5; assists wom. suff. in Kans, 198; Md, 257; at Dem. Natl. Conv, 349; N. J, 431; Hawaii, 717; Porto Rico, 723.

Shaw, Dr. Anna Howard, letter to Ala, 4; visits Ark, 20; in Ariz. campaign, 14; entertained in Calif, 32; speaks in Del, 86, 91; memorial, 92; 102; 110; in Fla, 116-7; Ga, 122-3, 135; Iowa, 182, 187; letter to Kans, 198; speaks in Ky, 208; in southern States, 218; Md, 249, 253, 250; Mass, 270 to 294; Mich, 395, 309; Minn, 317-18-19; Muss, 320, 329, 333; Mo. 349, at natl. suff. conv. 19019, 351; memorial, 333: before Legis, 355; Mont, 364; Neb, 370-1, 373-4, 370; work in Nev, 384, 387, 307; N. H, 401-2-3; N. J, 4103-14-15, 417, 420, 424, 431; N. Y, 441-2-3, 450. 455, 4604, in campaign, 483; wants Men's League, 984; 1n N.C, 492-3. memorial bldg, 495; N. Dak, 502; Okla, 520; Ore, 540, 542-3. 545; R. I, 567-8; memorial in S. C. 581;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Bryan's dictionary of painters and engravers, volume 1.djvu/507</title>
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      <text bytes="6705" sha1="rl8ec1hhd7x0694b7ortfj4j6nnfx01" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;0&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;PAINTERS AND ENQBAVERS. 
settled at Naples, wnere his jealousy was the cause 
of the ill-treatment which foreign artists had to 
endure. Domenichino especially suffered fearful 
persecution through his vindictiveness. He painted 
a few pictures in oil, but his power seems to have 
been better adapted to subjects that require to be 
executed in fresco, in which he is bold, varied, and 
occasionally beautiful and correct. His principal 
works at Naples were ' The Miracle of the Loaves 
and Fishes,' painted in forty days for the Refectory 
of San Severino, and frescoes for the churches of 
San Patrizio, San Paolo Maggiore, San Marcellino, 
San Martino, and Sant' Annunziata. He died at 
Naples in 1643. 
CORIOLANO, Bartolommeo, who is thought 
to have been the grandson of Cristoforo Corio- 
lano, was bom at Bologna in 1599. He was 
first instructed by his father, but afterwards 
entered the school of Guido Reni, where he be- 
came an able designer and engraver on wood. He 
nsually made use of two blocks for his woodcuts ; 
on one he cut the outline and the dark shadows, 
like the hatchings of a pen, and on the other 
block the demi-tints ; these he managed with great 
judgment, and his prints have a fine effect. His 
drawing is masterly and spirited, and his heads of 
a fine expression, characteristic of the great school 
in which he was educated. He worked at Bologna 
from 1630 to 1647, and was fond of developing the 
designs of Guido and Guercino. He dedicated a 
set of his prints after Carracci, Guido, &amp;c. to Urban 
VIII., who recompensed him with the order of 
knighthood of Loreto, and a pension. He died in 
1676. There are a few of his cuts executed in 
chiaroscuro, in which he used three blocks, which 
are signed with BC sc. ; BC. EQ. SC; and 
BART. COR. EQUES. F. The following are 
good examples of this master : 
St. Jerome in meditation before a Crucifix ; after Guido 
1637. 
Herodias, with the Head of St. John the Baptist ; after 
the same. 
The Virgin, with the Infant sleeping; after the same : 
in chiaroscuro. 
The Virgin and Infant Jesus, with St. John the Baptist ; 
after the same: in chiaroscuro. 
The Four Sibyls ; after the same. 
The Virgin and Infant sleeping ; after F. Vanni. 
Peace and Abundance ; after Guido. 1642. 
Jupiter hurling bolts at the Giants ; after the same ; on 
four sheets. 1647. 
The Seven Ages, transported to Bologna ; a Thesis. 
Theresa Maria Coriolako. his daughter, was in- 
structed in painting by Elisabetta Sirani, and in 
engraving by her father. She etched a small plate 
of the Virgin, half-length, with the Infant Jesus. 
CORIOLANO, Cristoforo, was a German en- 
graver, bom at Nuremberg in 1540. Heineckcn 
states that the family name of this artist was Le- 
DERER, which he exchanged in Italy for that of 
Coriolano. He engraved on wood, and was a ver}' 
able artist. In the Life of Marc- Antonio, Vasari 
assures us that ' Maestro Cristofano,' after executing 
at Venice an infinite number of fine things, engraved 
on wood the portraits of the painters, sculptors, 
and architects, after Vasari' s designs, f or his ' Li ves 
of the Painters,' first published in 1568. They 
are very masterly performances, but Zani considers 
them to be the work of Christoph Chrieger. He 
also engraved the greater part of the figures in the 
'Ornithology' of Ulisse Aldrovandi. He died at 
Venice in the beginning of the 17th century. 
CORIOLANO, GiovA^-si BattistAjIs believed to 
have been the son of Cristoforo Coriolano ; he was 
bom at Bologna in the year 1590, and died there 
in 1649. He studied painting under Giovanni 
Lodovico Valesio, but did not distinguish himself 
much as a painter, although he was employed for 
some of the churches at Bologna. In Santa Anna 
are two pictures of St. Nicholas, and St. Bruno ; 
and in the Nunziata an altar-piece of St. John, St. 
James, and St. Bernard. As an engraver, he is 
entitled to more consideration. He worked both on 
wood and on copper ; but his woodcuts are greatly 
preferable to his engravings. Those in chiaroscuro 
are dated from 1619 to 1625. Among his best 
works, which resemble in style those of F. Villa- 
mena, are the following : 
PORTRAITS. 
Vincenzo Sgualdi. 
Fortunius Licetus. 
The same Portrait : a woodcut. 
Joannes Cottunius. 
SUBJECTS AFTER VARIOUS MASTERS. 
The Image of the Virgin ; J. B. Coriolanus, se. 
The miraculous Image of the Virgin, painted by St. 
Luke, held by three angels ; after Guido, 
The Virgin and Child, and St. John ; after A. Tiarini. 
Christ crowned with Thorns ; etched in imitation of a 
woodcut; after L. Carracci; fine. 
Cupid sleeping ; in chiaroscuro ; after Guido. 
Triumphal Arch in honour of Louis XIII. ; II Corio' 
lano.fec. 
Twenty-seven plates for the ' Emblemata ' of Paolo 
Maccio ; the entire work consists of eighty-three 
plates ; the rest being by 0. Gatti and A. Parasina. 
He also engraved a number of theses and frontis- 
pieces. His plates were signed with Iiis full name, 
or B. C F. ; Cor ; or Corio. 
CORKOLE, AuousTE, a Belgian genre painter, 
was born at Ghent in 1822, and died in that city 
in 1875. 
CORNARA, Carlo, was born at Milan in 1605, 
and became a scholar of Camillo Procaccini. He 
did not produce many works, but they were de- 
signed with an excellent taste, particularly his 
easel pictures, which were highly esteemed. One 
of the best of his public works is his picture of St. 
Benedict at the Certosa at Pavia. He died in 1673. 
CORNEILLB, Claude, a French painter and 
engraver, was a native of Lyons, who, during the 
reigns of Francis I., Henry II., Francis II., and 
Charles IX., enjoyed a great reputation for his 
portraits. They are usually of small size, and 
very pale in colour, and are often attributed to 
Jaunet. Brantome, in his ' Memoires,' mentions 
with much praise a picture of Catharine de' Medici 
with her two daughters, and there is in the Lenoir 
collection at Stafford House a portrait of Louise 
Marguerite of Lorraine, Princess of Conty. A 
portrait of Francis I., attributed to Corneille, is in 
the Louvre. His engravings are slight, and betray 
the hand of a painter. Robert-Dumesnil gives a 
list of them in his ' Peintre-Graveur Frangais,' the 
best known being the 58 portraits of the French 
kings in the ' Epitomes des Roys de France^' printed 
at Lyons in 1546. Claude Corneille died after 
1576. 
CORNEILLE, Jean Baptiste, (called Corneille 
LE Jeune,) was a painter who was born in Paris in 
1649, and died there in 1695. He was a younger 
son of Michel Corneille of Orleans, and was in- 
stracted by his father, who sent him to Italy. After 
passing some years at Rome he returned to Paris, 
and was received into the Academy in 1675, the 
329&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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OF THE MODOC WAR 

The old man was headstrong; he called in his men; he told 
them to go with him one and all. &quot;Do not listen to what 
my hoy says; he is young; he cannot lead me.&quot; The boy 
raised to his full height, faced his father and his men, and 
said, &quot;Men, do not listen to my destructive father; he seeks 
the lives of all of us. If you do what he wants you to do; 
that is, kill innocent people, we are all doomed.&quot; The wise 
boy touched the hearts of the braves and only a few followed 
their chief. 

Jack's father and Legugyakes met on the little hill and 
there sealed the lives of the poor emigrants. After supper 
the white people in camp sat around their campfires and, I 
suppose, talked about the new country they were going to, 
and about their homes that they had left behind, little sus- 
pecting at that time, that there was a strong body of half- 
naked savages watching their campfires, and wishing it \vas 
near daylight. The white men dropped off one by one to their 
beds to dream about their new homes they intended to build 
for their families. The fires went out one by one. At last the 
last fire died out, which the Indians noticed with glee. The 
emigrants had no guard out. They all slept the sound sleep 
of death. 

About midnight some of the emigrants' horses got scared 
and snorted. None of the whites took any notice of it. The 
Indians were just a short distance from their sleeping vic- 
tims. The dawn of daylight found the Indians within striking- 
distance. They whispered to one another to lay down when 
it got good and light. One or two whites were up. They had 
just started the fires .to burning good. All at once about 
fifteen Indians jumped at the white men, howling like wolves. 

The two men were struck down before they realized what 
was the matter. Nearly half of the white people were killed 
or wounded before they offered battle. Some of them were 
half asleep when they were shot with poisoned arrows. At 
last the emigrants rallied. They got their guns and com- 
menced shooting. The Indians retreated, leaving their dead 
behind. The white man's aim was good. After the Indians 
retreated to a safe distance, they got together and held a&lt;noinclude&gt;
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        <id>8435</id>
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CHAPTER VI. 

Captain Jack and his people all arrive safe in the Lava Beds. Captain 
Jack occupies the largest cave, known nowadays as Captain Jack's 
Stronghold. Indians all live in different caves. They make prep- 
arations for war. 

After the Modocs all got well settled in the Lava Beds 
they took life easy for about two weeks, keeping two men on 
guard night and day. They did not intend to be caught nap- 
ping. They was expecting troops all the time. About mid- 
day, January 15, 1873, one of the Modoc guards saw a large 
body of horsemen about two miles west of their camp on a 
ridge. He reported to his chief. The chief ordered his men 
to prepare for battle. The enemy disappeared. The men that 
appeared on the ridge, was a company that was out on a scout- 
ing expedition, sent out by General Gillem, from John Fair- 
child's ranch near Hot Creek, California. 

General Gillem had his headquarters at Fairchild's ranch. 
He had about two hundred soldiers under his command at 
that time. The scouting party returned to Gillem's headquar- 
ters late in the evening of the 1 5th and reported to the general 
that they had located the Indian camp. The general ordered 
a company of cavalrymen on the morning of the i6th to ad- 
vance on the Indians and rout them out of the Lava Beds, 
and chase them if they could get them started. Spare none. 
The troops started for the field of action, early morning of 
the 1 6th. They arrived at the foot of the hill on the south- 
west of the Tule Lake edge of the Lava Beds in the afternoon. 
The troops camped there for the night about one mile and a 
half from the stronghold. Before sundown a company of 
Oregon volunteers and some twenty or thirty Klamath Indians 
arrived, also made their camp alongside of the soldiers. The 
soldiers and volunteers put their guards out, two hundred 
yards from the camp. 

The men after supper sat around their campfires, all dis- 
cussing the events of tomorrow, how they were going to whip 
the Indians. One volunteer says to his comrade : &quot;Say, Jim,&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Indian History of the Modoc War.djvu/58</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3470230</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133647</id>
      <parentid>10929164</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:09:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133647</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2224" sha1="ew0my0sp0v26lt7hez9rcufi0hhob4x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Phe-bot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;how are you going to eat your Modoc sirloin for dinner to- 
morrow, raw or cooked? I am going to eat mine raw. I 
don't want to take the time to cook it. I want to clean 'em 
all up before I stop, the red devils.&quot; Jim replied : &quot;Bill, gol 
darn it, I don't like the idea of facing these red devils. I wish 
I had stayed at home. I believe, Bill, these reds are going to 
be hell; gol darn it, I do. I heard these Modocs was gol 
darn good shots; darn it, I don't want 'em to shoot at me.&quot;
&quot;Say, Jim, play sick in the morning. You won't have to go 
out to face 'em at all; you are afraid of them Injuns; Jim, I'll 
go, and I will bring some Modoc steak in for you tomorrow 
evening.&quot; &quot;Bill, gol darn it, don't talk about them Injuns. 
They are bad medicine; gol darn it, they be.&quot; Some of the 
volunteers were going to capture nice looking Indian maids 
and make them cook the company's meals. 

One of the volunteer's beats was right on the shore of the 
lake. He was on the lookout for the Indians pretty close for 
a short time. He got sleepy and did not pay much attention 
to his duty. The moon came up. The volunteer noticed the 
moon and stopped and rubbed his eyes. He yawned and was 
just in the act of starting again on his beat. All at once he saw 
his own shadow in the lake. He levelled his gun at his shadow 
and fired, and at the same time he yelled like ten Modoc war- 
riors. The camp was in commotion. They thought the whole 
Modoc nation was right in amongst them. Some of the 
volunteers broke for the hill like escaped horses. Some of 
them tucked their blankets close over their heads and imagined 
themselves safe from the Modoc bullets. They soon found out 
that the guard had been dreaming. The guard told them 
that he had seen the Injun swimming right up to him with his 
gun in his teeth. &quot;I shot the devil. He sunk right where I 
shot him.&quot; Some of the boys next morning went down to 
where the guard had killed the Injun, but found the water 
only ten inches deep. They concluded that the guard did not 
kill any Indians. The boys teased the Indian-killer so much 
about him shooting at his own shadow, he pulled his coat off 
and said: &quot;He could lick any mother's son in the compa&lt;noinclude&gt;
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        <id>8435</id>
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today ; although your word is not much good, I am willing 
to take you at your promise. Thomas and Meacham will 
make it stronger if they promise with you. Now, Canby, 
promise me. I want nothing else. Now is your chance.&quot;
Hooker Jim got up, walked up to Meacham's horse; he took 
Meacham's overcoat; he put his left arm in the sleeve. All 
this time he never took his eyes off Meacham. He got his 
other arm in the other sleeve. He drew the coat on easy, until 
the coat was pretty well on his shoulders. Then he jerked it 
on himself with a quick move, buttoned it up, and walked up 
to the crowd, striking himself on the breast and said, &quot;Me 
Meacham now.&quot; Mr. Meacham pulled his hat off and offered 
it to Hooker Jim, saying: &quot;Here, Jim, take my hat and put 
it on, then you will be Meacham.&quot; Hooker Jim says: &quot;All 
lite, me get him hat puty quick, no hurry. You keep while, 
him hat mine, you see by-n-by.&quot; All the other people did not 
say a word while Meacham and Hooker Jim was talking. 

Capt. Jack commenced his talk again : &quot;Canby, do you 
agree to what I ask of you or not? Tell me. I am tired wait- 
ing for you to speak. ' 

Meacham to Canby : &quot;General, for heaven's sake promise 
him.&quot; Just then Capt. Jack got up and walked behind Meach- 
am's horse. Schonchin says to Meacham : 

&quot;Meacher, Meacher, give us Hot Creek for our future 
home. Give us Hot Creek, I say, Meacher!&quot; 

Meacham said : &quot;I will ask the Great Father at Washing- 
ton for you people.&quot; 

Jack was back, standing right in front of Canby. Before 
Tobey could interpret what Meacham said, Capt. Jack said : 

&quot;Ut wih kutt (let's do it), or, &quot;all ready.&quot; He pulled 
his pistol, as he said the words. Canby raised his face to see 
Jack. The cap snapped. He drew the hammer back and 
pulled the trigger again. The pistol fired. The ball struck 
Canby under the right eye. Canby jumped to his feet and 
started to run. He had not more than started when Bogus 
Charley tripped and threw him down and cut his throat. Bos- 
ton shot Dr. Thomas just about the time Canby was shot. 
He was hit in the right breast, the bullet ranging downward.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:12:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133653</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2190" sha1="2zc5juz0dar62juqmf4v0v71pss8ujk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Phe-bot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;old hag in the bunch and hoof it back.&quot; They started for 
Black Jim's camp, the three Modoc Indian scouts in the lead. 

When the troops gained the top of the mountain, they 
were met by Scar face. He told Lieut. Anderson &quot;the Indians 
were all ready to start for Fairchild's. Only two men ran 
off this morning, me see him go, me no say anything, me get 
him today, you bet, me get him.&quot; Scarface turned back, fol- 
lowed by the grinning soldier boys. They rode on for a few 
minutes. Scarface halted and said : &quot;Anderson, you all look 
out good. Maybe him Black Jim and Curley Headed Doctor 
here some place. Maybe he like shoot soldier.&quot; The Irish- 
man said: &quot;Begorra, I hope he won't take me for his target, 
the bloody coward. If he was here now, I'd treat him to a 
chew of my tobacco.&quot; Scarface started again, all following. 
Every boy was casting glances in all directions. 

Scarface rode up to a thick clump of Junipers and Ma- 
hoganys and dismounted, saying: &quot;You keep still.&quot; He 
went into the woods and in a few minutes came out with 
sixty or seventy people following him, Indian fashion, single 
file, some of them almost nude. They were a sorry looking 
lot. They all lined up in front of the soldiers. The men all 
stepped forward and laid down their guns. Not a word was 
spoken during this time. Scarface said : &quot;Mr. Anderson, 
how you like the way I do business,&quot; Lieut. Anderson : 
&quot;Fine, Charley, fine. Now,&quot; he said, &quot;we will go.&quot; 

Scarface said : &quot;Suppose you no like take him Injun 
guns, Injuns take him long: he no shoot you.&quot; The Lieu- 
tenant said, &quot;All right. Tell them to carry their guns down 
to the ranch.&quot; Scarface said: &quot;Anderson, you and Hooker 
Jim, Shaknasty Jim, and Bogus Charley and soldiers, take^ 
these Indians dow^n to camp. You give me five men. I go 
get him Doctor and Black Jim. I want five good men, may- 
be we fight like hell, sure.&quot; 

So Lieutenant Anderson detailed five men to go with 
Scarface. Scarface led his men dow^n on the west side of 
Sheep Mountain about three hundred yards. He stopped and 
looked down into the valley for some time. Finally he said : 
&quot;We go this w r ay,&quot; pointing north. He took the lead&lt;noinclude&gt;
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    <title>Page:The Indian History of the Modoc War.djvu/183</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3471492</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133654</id>
      <parentid>10933513</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:13:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133654</origin>
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      <text bytes="1783" sha1="sd2o2rtmarwf9ot38mynnvl0bmt53tc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Phe-bot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;OF THE MODOC WAR

Q. &quot;How near the Lava Beds was the peace tent?&quot; 
A. &quot;It was near the west edge of the Lava Beds.&quot; 
Q. &quot;What distance from General Gillenrs quarters or 
camp f 

A. &quot;I should judge about three-quarters of a mile.&quot; 
Q. &quot;Did any Modocs reply to those speeches ?&quot; 
A. &quot;Capt. Jack did.&quot; 

Q. &quot;What did he say? Can you remember?&quot; 
A. &quot;Yes, I remember the biggest part of his reply. He 
said he did not want to leave his country where he was now 
living; that he knew no other country than that; that he had 
given up Lost River. He would like to have Cottonwood Creek 
and Willow Creek if he could get it. These creeks are near 
Fairchild's ranch, California.&quot; 

Q. &quot;Is Cottonwood Creek the same as Hot Creek?&quot; 
A. &quot;They are t\vo different creeks.&quot; 
O. &quot;What did he mean by giving up Lost River?&quot; 
A. &quot;He said there was where the first fight had taken 
place. That he did not want to have anything more to do with 
Lost River. He said the Lost River country was the cause of 
his first fight with the soldiers. He said the white people 
wanted that country.&quot; 

g. &quot;What fight do you refer to?&quot; 

r\. &quot;The first fight when Major Jackson went down to 
bring them up on the reservation. It was in November, 1872.&quot; 
Q. &quot;Did Capt. Jack demand Willow Creek and Cotton- 
wood Creek?&quot; 
A. &quot;Yes, sir.&quot; 

Q. &quot;That is the land around this place?&quot; 
A. &quot;Yes.&quot; 
Q. &quot;To live on?&quot; 

A. &quot;Yes, sir. He wanted a reservation there.&quot; 
Q. &quot;Then what was said or what occurred?&quot; 
A. &quot;Meacham then spoke. He told Capt. Jack, saying, 
'Jack, .let us talk like men.' He .tapped Jack on the shoulder 
twice and repeated, 'Let's talk like men, not like children, You 
are a man that has common sense. Isn't there any other place 
that will do except Willow Creek and Cottonwood Creek?&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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A. &quot;Yes.&quot; 

Q. &quot;Do you remember when General Canby was killed?&quot;

A. &quot;Yes, I know that they went to kill him.&quot; 

Q. &quot;Did you know that he was going to be killed?&quot;

A. &quot;Yes, I know they were going to kill him.&quot; 

Q. &quot;Did you know they were going to kill the Peace 
Commissioners ?&quot; 

A. &quot;Yes.&quot; 

Q. &quot;Were you at the killing?&quot; 

A. &quot;No, I didn't go.&quot; 

Q. &quot;How did you know they were to kill them?&quot; 

A. &quot;I heard Jack and Schonchin talking about it.&quot; 

Q. &quot;Anyone else?&quot; 

A. &quot;They were the only ones I heard say anything about 
it.&quot; 

Q. &quot;How long was this before the killing?&quot; 

A. &quot;I do not remember, but it must have been eight or 
ten days.&quot; 

Q. &quot;Did you speak to anybody about it?&quot; 

A. &quot;Yes, I told about it.&quot; 

Q. &quot;To whom ?&quot; 

A. &quot;I told this woman here, Tobey, Riddle's wife.&quot; 

Q. &quot;What did you tell her?&quot; 

A. &quot;I told her to tell the Peace Commissioners not to 
meet the Indians any more. That I did not want to see them 
killed.&quot; 

While this man is under examination as a witness, A. B. 
Meacham enters the courtroom. The prisoners fix their eyes 
on him steadfastly until now. They had doubted his recovery 
from his wounds. 

A. B. Meacham, citizen, called for the prosecution, duk 
sworn, testified as follows : 

Q. BY JUDGE ADVOCATE : &quot;What is your name ?.&quot; 
A. &quot;Alfred B. Meacham.&quot; 
Q. &quot;Are you a citizen of the United States?&quot; 
A. &quot;I am.&quot; 

Q. &quot;What position did you hold in connection with the 
late war; with the Modoc&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Indian History of the Modoc War.djvu/212</title>
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ing the letters of his Kentucky sweetheart; that on his return 
to the cabin he declared that &quot;the Modoc maiden should not 
make him forget his girl!&quot; Be careful, Mr. Riddle, you don't 
know what the morrow may bring for you. At the Indian 
lodge a young girl of about fifteen was humming a low tune 
in the Modoc tongue. It is the same voice we heard near the 
camp of the Te-ni-noes two years since. The morning came ; 
but no Wi-ne-ma was at her father's camp. Supposing that 
she had gone for the horses, her father felt no alarm, until an 
hour later, when it was discovered that her personal effects 
were missing. Even then he did not suspect the truth, but 
thinking she had only gone to some of her kindred, she would 
return. 

She had indeed gone to her cousin's house. This cousin had 
married a white man. Wi-ne-ma told her of her love for the 
young man in the cabin. The cousin informed her husband, 
and he, wishing to have congenial neighbors, went to Frank, 
and informed him of the presence of the maiden at his house, 
and of her attachment for him. Frank shook his head. He 
had fortified himself against the charms of the Indian maiden, 
as he thodght, but consented to visit her. Ah ! my man, have 
you not learned that when the first step is taken the next fol- 
lows easily, and then another? 

Frank gave some attention to his dress, putting on the 
&quot;biled shirt&quot; which had been kept for &quot;extra occasions,&quot; say- 
ing that he would &quot;go just for the fun of the thing.&quot; Ah F 
my boy, many a man has started in fun, and come out in 
earnest. The face of the fair-haired girl went with him, 
reproaching him for his folly, upbraiding him at every step, 
and he was half inclined to turn back, but his companion en- 
couraged him to go on, saying that if he &quot;didn't like the girl 
he needn't take her, that's all.&quot; When they arrived at his 
friend's cabin he found Wi-ne-ma dressed in the highest style 
of the Modoc maidens. He felt ashamed of having come, as 
the memory of his Kentucky betrothed rose before his mind. 

The evening hours glided by, the strangeness wore off, and 
by the aid of an interpreter the conversation became interest- 
ing. Wi-ne-ma sang love-songs in the Modoc tong&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Indian History of the Modoc War.djvu/221</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3471533</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133656</id>
      <parentid>10933572</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:14:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="2048" sha1="n29yhtla16jcw3fr5s1evy8cidtzxep" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Phe-bot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Mo., 1883. 

BIOGRAPHY 

of 
FRANK RIDDLE, AND SON, JEFF. C. RIDDLE. 

[Extracted from &quot;Wi-ne-ma and Her People,&quot; by A. B. Meacham.] 

Frank Riddle, the husband of Wi-ne-ma, is a native of 
Kentucky. His parents were slave-holders, and Frank grew 
to fifteen years of age without receiving much attention from 
them. Several years before reaching his majority, in Western 
parlance, Frank &quot;struck out for himself.&quot; Arriving upon the 
Pacific Coast in 1850, he first sought employment in Sacra- 
mento City, and subsequently drifted to the mines of Northern 
California. His life has been a counterpart of thousands who 
sought fortune at the point of the pick and shovel and the 
&quot;Tail of the Long Tom sluice-box.&quot; Many thrilling episodes 
lie had passed before we find him surrendering to the bright 
eyes of the Modoc maiden. This struggle against his destiny 
was brief, and as we have shown on a former page, he sur- 
rendered to this Modoc, and was married under the forms and 
ceremonies of her people. During his sojourn upon the West- 
ern coast, he has killed seven hundred and forty-three deer and 
elk, and one hundred and thirty-two bears of various species. 

During the efforts for peace with the Modoc Indians, in 
1873, Mr. Riddle was employed as an interpreter. His per- 
sonal acquaintance with them, and with the difficulties 
existing between them and the white race, made him the man 
for the occasion. It is unfortunate that Gen. Canby and Dr. 
Thomas should not have recognized the real character of Mr. 
Riddle, and appreciate, as I did, hi, c integrity and good com- 
mon sense. It would have saved many lives and hundreds of 
thousands of dollars. 

I have never heard an intimation that Frank Riddle ever 
&quot;went back&quot; on a friend or his own word, while his generous 
nature prompting to give, has kept him impoverished all his 
life. Mr. Riddle, appreciating the benefit this extensive travel 
would be. to his wife and boy, consented to join my company 
on my promise to &quot;do right by him and return him and&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Indian History of the Modoc War.djvu/250</title>
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past five months, although still suffering- seriously from the 
effects of the wounds received in the Lava Beds. His nervous 
system, shattered as it had been, so nearly gave way, that he 
must have rest and skilful treatment, or he would die. My 
wife and myself, both being physicians, as well as friends, it 
was but natural that he should come to our home. For months 
he lay on the border-line that divides this transient world of 
visible shadows from that invisible realm of eternal realities. 
But his work on earth was not completed; he was not then 
to die. In the spring of 1876 he was invited by the pastor of 
Hedding M. E. Church, Poughkeepsie, New York, to visit 
that city and fill his pulpit, in the morning or evening, or both 
as he should elect, and lecture on the Indians. He earnestly 
desired to accept, but doubted his ability to stand up long- 
enough to give a lecture, or speak with sufficient force to do 
his subject justice. Mrs. Bland and myself, however, gave it 
as our professional opinion that he could, and that the brief 
journey and the pleasurable excitement would prove beneficial 
to his health, and on our saying, &quot;We will go with you,&quot; he 
resolved to go. 

In the summer of 1877, \ve made a joint lecturing tour 
through the States of New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michi- 
gan, Indiana and Illinois. On our return to the East, about 
the first of November, Colonel Meacham resolved to com- 
mence the publication of a paper devoted to his great theme, 
the Indian, his rights and wrongs and the advocacy of a true 
Indian policy. In pursuance of this plan he issued on the 
2Oth of December, 1877, the first number of &quot;The Council 
Fire,&quot; bearing date January i, 1878. During the succeeding 
winter he visited the city of Washington and gave a number 
of lectures, both in the leading churches and the public halls 
of the city. His lectures were largely attended by members 
of Congress, Senators, army officers and other public men, as 
well as citizens, and attracted great attention. He became 
fully convinced that he ought to reside in Washington, and 
issue his paper there, as he would thus be able to have vastly&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Indian History of the Modoc War.djvu/254</title>
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rob the Utes, and also make money through army contracts. 
The Judge before whom he was arraigned disappointed the 
villains by allowing Colonel Meacham to give bonds for his 
appearance for trial six months later, instead of sending him 
to prison; hence he was detained but one day by this arrest. 
He proceeded at once to Los Pinos, paid the Utes the money 
due, according to promise, and returned in safety to Wash- 
ington about Christmas. He reported for trial in April, 1881, 
but the prosecution was not ready. (The villians who started 
this prosecution never dared to let the case go to trial, and it 
was finally dismissed by orders from the Department of Jus- 
tice, at Washington). 

He then proceeded, under orders from Colonel Manypenny, 
Chairman of the Ute Commission, to White River Agency, 
charged with the difficult and perilous duty of getting these 
wild and rebellious Indians, who had killed Agent Meeker two 
years before, and who had no agent since, to sign the Ute 
agreement, and surrendering their old home, move on to Uinta. 
He succeeded, but the perils, excitement and privations incident 
to his year and a half of service as a Ute Commissioner, had 
so exhausted his already shattered constitution that he returned 
to Washington, October 15, 1881, in very feeble health. He 
was not confined to his room save for a day or two at a time, 
occasionally, but continued to edit &quot;The Council Fire,&quot; and 
visit the Indian office on public business; but despite the most 
skilful medical treatment, the best nursing, and good social 
influences, he continued to lose flesh and strength. His phy- 
sical body was slowly but surely sinking to the grave, and his 
spirit pluming its pinions for an immortal flight. He had 
premonitions of the approaching change, but when it came it 
must have been a surprise to him, as it was to his physicians&quot; 
and other friends. The final summons came at 3 P. M., Feb- 
ruary 1 6, 1882, in the form of a stroke of apoplexy, as he 
sat beside his editorial table in his chamber. He was buried 
at the Congregational Cemetery, Washington, D. C. 
******** 

His family consists of his widow, a son, George F., a young 
man of twenty-five, educated in the Willamette University.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Bryan's dictionary of painters and engravers, volume 1.djvu/459</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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        <id>1511</id>
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      <text bytes="6683" sha1="f1tn1mrl8o5kmctbi5iyyc68woi7qif" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Slowking4&quot; /&gt;{{c|PAINTERS AND ENGRAVERS. }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;
Hampton C!ourt. Palace. Francis 11. 
„ „ Mary, Queen of Scots. 
London. A'at. Gall. Blan's Portrait. 
,, ,, Boy's Portrait. 
,, Hereford Hoxse. Wary, Queen of Scots. 
Munich. Finakothek. Claudia, daughter of Henri 
II. of France. 
Paris. Louvre. Charles IX. 
» It Elizabeth of Austria, wife of 
Charles IX. 
Vienna. Charles IX. 1563. 
The Marqiiia of Biencourt possesses a remark- 
able portrait of the Duke of Montiuorency, besides 
other works by Clouet. There are in the British 
Museuta some crayon heads, and at Chantilly there 
are now eighty-eight portraits in black and white 
chalk in the manner of Holbein, representing 
persons eminent at the French court in Clouet's 
day, which are considered to be his work. 
See Lord Ronald GoweHs book on Castle 
Howard pictures. 

CLOUET, Jeam, (or Cloet,) the elder, a Flemish 
painter of historical subjects and portraits, was 
employed by the Duke of Burgundy, and was 
living at Brussels in 1475. He died about 1490. 
There is no proof of his having visited France, 
much less of his having settled at Tours between 
the years 1475 and 1485, as has been asserted. He 
was an artist of great talent, and may be included 
among the celebrated miniature painters of his 
time. 

CLOUET, Jean, the younger, was a painter of 
Flemish origin who established himself in France, 
probably at Tours, prior to the accession of 
Francis I. It appears highly probable that his 
father was the Jean Clouet who was painter to the 
Duke of Burgundy. He himself became court 
painter to Francis I., and his name occurs in that 
capacity as early as 1518. He is supposed to have 
been born about 1485. In the documents in which 
reference is made to him he is called Jehan, Jehan- 
not, and Jehannet. Besides the oOice of court 
painter he held that of ' valet-de-chambre.' There 
is much uncertainty about his works, but the fol- 
lowing are generally attributed to him : a small 
painting of Francis I. in armour, in the Uffizi at 
Florence; a full-length figure of Eleanor of Spain, 
wife of Francis I., at Hampton Court ; and a 
picture of Margaret of Valois, in the Royal Institution at Liverpool. If these are correctly as- 
signed to him, it would appear that his pictures 
were distinguished from those of his son by sharper 
outline, and by a more antique rendering. He died 
in 1541, in all probability in Paris. 

CLOUET, Petrus, (also Clowet, Clouwet, or 
Clovet,) a Flemish engraver, was born at Antwerp 
in 1606, and died there in 1670. After having 
learnt the rudiments of the art in his native city, 
he went to Italy, and at Rome became a pupil of 
Spierre, and Bloemaert. On his return to Antwerp, 
he engraved several portraits and subjects after 
Rubens. They are executed with the graver in a 
firm, clear manner, resembling the style of Pontius, 
but are not equal to the works of that master. His 
plates, particularly those after Rubens, are con- 
siderably esteemed. We have the following by him : 

PORTRAITS. 

Pietro Aretino. 
Thomas a Kempis. 
Ferdinando Cortes. 
&quot;William Cavendish, Duke of Newcastle , after Diepenbeeck. 
Christoffel van der Laneu, painter ; after Van Dj/ck. 
Theodorus Kogiers, Goldsmith ; after the same. 
Anne Wake, Countess of Sussex holding a Fan of 
Feathers ; after the saiyie. 
Henry Rich, Earl of Holland . after the same. 
Some of the Plenipotentiaries at the Congress of 
Monster ; after Fan Hulte. 

SUBJECTS FROM VARIOUS MASTERS. 

The Descent from the Cross ; after Rubem. 
The Death of St. Anthony; after the same; fine and scarce. 
St. Michael discomfiting the Evil Spirit ; after the same. 
The Epitaph of Eubens. with Accessories. 
Several gallant Figures in a Garden ; called The Garden 
of Love. The first impressions are with Flemish 
verses ; fine and scarce. Those with the address of 
C. van Merlin are retouched, and very inferior. 
A large Landscape, representing &quot;Winter, with the Snow 
falling, and a Stable with Cows ; belonging to a set 
of six landscapes, of which five are engraved by Bohirert. 
The &quot;Virgin suckling the Infant Jesus; after J'an Di/ckj 
who has etched the same subject. 
A Company of Cavaliers and Ladies at Table, said to 
be the Family of the Duke of Newcastle ; after Diepenbeeck. 

CLOVIO, Giorgio Giulio, (called Macedo,) was 
an extraordinary artist, who was born at Grizane in Croatia in 1498. After learning the rudiments of drawing in a convent of his own country, he went to Rome, where he was patronized by Cardinal 
Grimani. In the years 1516 to 1519 Clovio executed 
for him several excellent pen-and-ink designs for 
medals and seals ; thereby acquiring the habit of 
designing small figures, which he executed with a 
taste, accuracy, and firmness that gave grandeur 
to miniature. He entered the school of Giulio 
Romano, and devoted himself entirely to miniature 
painting, — a branch of art which he ennobled by 
his inimitable talent, and in which he acquired a 
reputation that ranks him with the great, at a period 
which immediately succeeded the most distinguished epoch of Roman excellence. In his design of the figure, extraordinary as it may appear, 
he evinces something of the greatness of the 
Roman school, and of Michelangelo, whose works 
and those of Raphael he especially studied, and 
the naturalist will find every insect delineated 
with astonishing correctness, although on so diminutive a scale as to require the use of a magnifier. 
His works were executed solely for the sovereigns 
and princes of bis time, in whose libraries were 
found books embellished with his miniatures, 
painted with extraordinary force and beauty of 
colouring, with the most&quot; correct design. The 
most extraordinary work of Clovio is the pro- 
cession of Corpus Domini, at Rome, painted in 
twenty-six pictures, which occupied the artist during nine years. The rich covers to this masterpiece 
were executed by Benvenuto Cellini. At Milan, 
the Cistercians possess a picture by Clovio of the 
'Descent from the Cross,' which breathes all the 
spirit of the golden age of Roman art. He died at 
Rome in 1578. His cognomen Macedo, or Macedoiie, 
was given him, it is supposed, because his ancestors 
were of Macedonia. His works are so incredibly 
numerous that their description would fill a large 
volume ; we therefore give only a short list of 
some of his principal productions : 

Florence. Pitti Pal. Deposition, signed juLius macedo FA. 
London. Soane Coll. The Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans. 
„ British Mus. The &quot;Victories of the Emperor 
(Grenville Charles V. (Tirelve miniatures 
Collection.) painted for Philip II., King of 
Spain, formerly in the EscorialS&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{C|X}} {{c|305 }}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Aeneid of Virgil JOHN CONINGTON 1917 V2.pdf/356</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <parentid>11141363</parentid>
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      <contributor>
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        <id>2855804</id>
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      <text bytes="1663" sha1="r1nqgotp0w31vpafe65uat2hdjmvmsv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Phe-bot&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;poem&gt;
High throned above all highth, bent down his eye,
His own works and their works at once to view.&quot;

—{{small caps|Milton}}, ''Paradise Lost''. &lt;/poem&gt;  8:26. '''Barred.'''

&lt;poem&gt;
&quot;In vain—for rude adversity's command
Still, on the margin, of each famous land,
With unrelenting ire his steps opposed,
And every gate of hope against him closed.&quot;

—{{small caps|[[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer]]}}, ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|Shipwreck]]''. &lt;/poem&gt;  8:37. '''Antenor.''' Nephew of Priam. After the capture of Troy, he sailed up the Adriatic Sea, established a new people called the Veneti, and founded Patavium (Padua).  9:8. '''Arms.'''

&lt;poem&gt;
&quot;And in thy tempul I wol my banur hong,
And all the armes of my companye.&quot;

—{{small caps|Chaucer}}, ''Knight's Tale''. &lt;/poem&gt;  &lt;poem&gt; &quot;In my heart's temple I suspend to thee These votive wreaths of withered memory.&quot;  —{{small caps|Shelley}}, ''Epipsychidion''. &lt;/poem&gt;  9:13. '''Piety.'''

&lt;poem&gt;
&quot;False Jupiter, rewardst thou virtue so?
What, is not piety exempt from woe?&quot;

—{{small caps|Marlowe and Nash}}, ''Dido''.
&lt;/poem&gt;]

9:18. '''Cythera.''' An island south of Laconia, near which,
the tradition is, Venus rose from the foam of the sea.

9:20. '''Lavinium.''' A city of Latium, represented as
founded by Æneas and named by him for his wife Lavinia,
daughter of King Latinus. It was Latinus' promise of
Lavinia to Æneas that caused the wars of the last six books
of the Æneid.

9:29. '''Rutulians.''' A Volscian people whose chief city
was Antium. They with their King Turnus were the chief
antagonists of Æneas when he was trying to settle in Italy.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Personal beauty how to cultivate and preserve it in accordance with the laws of health (1870).djvu/32</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3506856</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131489</id>
      <parentid>15114778</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:55:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rurton</username>
        <id>3168296</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1509" sha1="rmdewphn3kl2uqag9d2dncby7gysekg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|22 |PERSONAL BEAUTY.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;incomplete, and that he had painted the ear from memory only. Fortunately few people are so critical as Lavater, or the artists would have a sad time.

We have no intention of going into such minutia, only proposing to give in general terms what the
human figure should be, and what we shall say applies particularly to the female figure. Formen and queens, says an old French proverb, have the privilege of being ugly, ''aux hommes et aux reines on passe la laideur.''

The height should be exactly equal to the distance between the tips of the middle fingers of either hand when the arms are fully extended. Ten times the length of the hand, or seven and a half times the length of the foot, or five times the diameter of the chest from one armpit to the other, should also each give the height of the whole body. The distance from the junction of the thighs to the ground should be the same as from that point to the crown of the head. The knee should be precisely midway between the same point and the bottom of the heel. The distance from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger should be the same as from the elbow to the middle line of the breast. From the top of the head to the level of the chin should be the same as from the level of the chin to that of the armpits, and from the heel to the toe.

With these measurements at command any one can readily find out how near she approaches to the perfection of form. But let her not be dismayed at discover-&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1392" sha1="7dsu621e41yye89inj0s2tjn1dpryqh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rh||CARE IN INFANCY. |23}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ing sundry discrepancies. The matter is not to be understood too rigidly. These rules are intended to apply to a certain age and a certain style of beauty, and though true as rules, like all rules, they permit exceptions and suffer limited variations.

{{c|HOW TO PERFECT THE FIGURE.}}

Who would have a perfect form cannot begin too early. Nay, the mother should commence the physical
education of the child long before its birth. Thus did
the dames of ancient Greece who gave the world a race
unmatched for beauty in all history.

So, too, during the period of nursing the careful mother will see to it that her child has abundance of good wholesome food, for nothing so certainly produces deformity as ill-nourishment. She will take care that the infant does not lie more frequently on one side than the other, for this will make it “lopsided;” that it is changed from arm to arm in nursing and carrying for the same reason; that it does not walk too soon, lest it become bandy-legzed; that it does not wear tight clothing or bandages, as these will readily press its tender flesh and yielding bones into uncouth shapes.

Another period of life, where it is of the greatest importance that sedulous and intelligent care should guard over the child, is when she is passing through that momentous change which transforms the girl into the woman.&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Personal beauty how to cultivate and preserve it in accordance with the laws of health (1870).djvu/34</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3506858</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131486</id>
      <parentid>15114911</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:54:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rurton</username>
        <id>3168296</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131486</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="1511" sha1="ae64yu8w0syvny8phmfeogeosxcregh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|24| PERSONAL BEAUTY.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Very much has been said of late years of the value of well-regulated gymnastic exercise as a means of health, and it were difficult to say too much on that topic. But comparatively little has been done or said with reference to increasing the beauty of the form by such means. To be sure, there is the art called &quot;Calisthenics,&quot; from two Greek words meaning beauty and strength, but its aim has been confined to the latter quality only. So it is with gymnastics in general. Yet it must be remembered that it is very unusual in man, and still more so in woman, to find the graceful form of perfect symmetry connected with uncommon muscular vigor, or even remarkable powers of endurance. This is a familiar fact to surgeons who examine recruits for the army and the naval service.

The old Greeks, from whom we have learned so much concerning beauty, knew this very well, and divided,
therefore, their gymnastic exercises into three classes. The first was for training the soldiers to severe, protracted labor, where endurance was the quality required; the second was for the athletes, the participants in the Olympic, Isthmian, and Pythian games, who sought to combine power with activity; while the third class had as its object the development of harmonious proportion, the correction of defects in the figure, and the cure of vices of conformation. It is this third class of gymnastic exercises which is peculiarly suitable to girls and women, all the movements being&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Personal beauty how to cultivate and preserve it in accordance with the laws of health (1870).djvu/37</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3506861</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131431</id>
      <parentid>11016029</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:28:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rurton</username>
        <id>3168296</id>
      </contributor>
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      <origin>15131431</origin>
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      <text bytes="1393" sha1="6yg8o6qhj82cftlwrn197793ff9mwfp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rh|THE RIGHT AND LEFT SIDES.|27}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;They should likewise bear in mind that height depends chiefly on the length of the lower limbs and not on the body, so that when sitting tall and short persons present very little difference.

{{rh||WANT OF SYMMETRY OF THE BODY.}}

It is a curious fact to consider that our body is formed of two entities united together. One side of us has nearly all the organs that the other has, and arranged in almost precisely the same manner. What is the use of two ears, two eyes, two nostrils, when one would, and at a pinch does answer the purpose quite as well? We do not know.

Still more curious is it to observe how the one side generally gets the better of the other, and becomes stronger, handsomer, and more adroit. Even the two halves of our body, twin brothers ''on ne peut pas plus,'' cannot live together without rivalry. Generally it is the right half that comes out winner. This is supposed to be because the great bloodvessels, as they leave the heart, are so arranged as to carry that side more nourishment. More rarely it is the left, and only occasionally do we see a person who can control the muscles of either side with equal power. In most persons the difference between the development of the two sides is quite visible in every member.

Now if we examine the finest statues in this respect we shall find no such inequality. Indeed, one of the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131435</id>
      <parentid>15131431</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:29:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rurton</username>
        <id>3168296</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131435</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1394" sha1="86k3savs7skhy8qs6d5n53ft26e0tvf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rh||THE RIGHT AND LEFT SIDES.|27}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;They should likewise bear in mind that height depends chiefly on the length of the lower limbs and not on the body, so that when sitting tall and short persons present very little difference.

{{rh||WANT OF SYMMETRY OF THE BODY.}}

It is a curious fact to consider that our body is formed of two entities united together. One side of us has nearly all the organs that the other has, and arranged in almost precisely the same manner. What is the use of two ears, two eyes, two nostrils, when one would, and at a pinch does answer the purpose quite as well? We do not know.

Still more curious is it to observe how the one side generally gets the better of the other, and becomes stronger, handsomer, and more adroit. Even the two halves of our body, twin brothers ''on ne peut pas plus,'' cannot live together without rivalry. Generally it is the right half that comes out winner. This is supposed to be because the great bloodvessels, as they leave the heart, are so arranged as to carry that side more nourishment. More rarely it is the left, and only occasionally do we see a person who can control the muscles of either side with equal power. In most persons the difference between the development of the two sides is quite visible in every member.

Now if we examine the finest statues in this respect we shall find no such inequality. Indeed, one of the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>86k3savs7skhy8qs6d5n53ft26e0tvf</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Personal beauty how to cultivate and preserve it in accordance with the laws of health (1870).djvu/38</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3506862</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131444</id>
      <parentid>11016030</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:36:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rurton</username>
        <id>3168296</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131444</origin>
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      <text bytes="1388" sha1="9wnbvgh6gjd5skk1imxas3z7uew9yp6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|98|PERSONAL BEAUTY.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;first objects which an able teacher of gymnastics proposes to himself is to equalize the strength and skill of the two arms and legs.

Frequently a want of symmetry is due to the bad habit of sleeping mostly on one side. We can recall quite a number of such instances. Such a habit should never be indulged. It is ruinous to grace in walking, and has, moreover, an injurious effect on the general health by displacing the internal organs, and subjecting them to unequal pressure. We always urge those whom we have the privilege of advising to sleep quite as often on the one side as on the other, and, if they can, occasionally on the back. Persons who are accustomed to sleep together should change sides from time to time. This is especially important in young girls.

Why some persons are left-handed is not clear. It is not merely a habit they learn in infancy. We have
known every precaution taken with children to prevent it, tying a bag over their left hands, fastening it, in the sleeve or to the side, and other devices, for months together, but without success. Nevertheless, all these means should be tried, and, when they fail, the child must be taught to use both hands alike—to be “ambidextrous,” as it is called—which is rarely impossible. Left-handed people, however “dexterous” they may be, are apt to create an unpleasant sensation&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9wnbvgh6gjd5skk1imxas3z7uew9yp6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131485</id>
      <parentid>15131444</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:54:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rurton</username>
        <id>3168296</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131485</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1388" sha1="2kzqgrrt37vl4qhjbffmvmkj4ktqftz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|28|PERSONAL BEAUTY.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;first objects which an able teacher of gymnastics proposes to himself is to equalize the strength and skill of the two arms and legs.

Frequently a want of symmetry is due to the bad habit of sleeping mostly on one side. We can recall quite a number of such instances. Such a habit should never be indulged. It is ruinous to grace in walking, and has, moreover, an injurious effect on the general health by displacing the internal organs, and subjecting them to unequal pressure. We always urge those whom we have the privilege of advising to sleep quite as often on the one side as on the other, and, if they can, occasionally on the back. Persons who are accustomed to sleep together should change sides from time to time. This is especially important in young girls.

Why some persons are left-handed is not clear. It is not merely a habit they learn in infancy. We have
known every precaution taken with children to prevent it, tying a bag over their left hands, fastening it, in the sleeve or to the side, and other devices, for months together, but without success. Nevertheless, all these means should be tried, and, when they fail, the child must be taught to use both hands alike—to be “ambidextrous,” as it is called—which is rarely impossible. Left-handed people, however “dexterous” they may be, are apt to create an unpleasant sensation&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2kzqgrrt37vl4qhjbffmvmkj4ktqftz</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Personal beauty how to cultivate and preserve it in accordance with the laws of health (1870).djvu/39</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3506863</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131466</id>
      <parentid>11016031</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:44:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rurton</username>
        <id>3168296</id>
      </contributor>
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      <origin>15131466</origin>
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      <text bytes="1452" sha1="oib6vygakd3bwyelh6cwue704m4zucm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rh||LEFT-HANDEDNESS.|29}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of awkwardness in the minds of observers. In French, ''gaucherie'', from ''gauche'', the left, means clownishness.

It is next to impossible for an adult to overcome this habit. The best they can hope for is to gain a sufficient command over the right arm and hand to be able to use it at table, at the blackboard, etc., as others do. Still, they have for their consolation the example of many a poor fellow in the war, who having lost his right arm has acquired singular proficiency in a year or two with his left. We have in our possession several autograph letters of that distinguished soldier and philanthropist Major General Howard, who lost his right forearm at the battle of Fair Oaks. They were written about eighteen months subsequent to his wound, and the penmanship is quite legible and regular.

A want of symmetry in the shoulders is very common among those who write or paint steadily. The right shoulder usually becomes higher, and the bones more prominent. These persons should practise daily and regularly sitting with the left shoulder elevated and the right depressed. They should avoid low-necked dresses, and on state occasions conceal the lack of uniformity by a soft padding. A course of calisthenics is also of great service.

There is a complaint which would be comical were it not so distressing to the sufferer. It is that in which there is a partial palsy of one-half of the face. The&lt;noinclude&gt;{{right||3}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>oib6vygakd3bwyelh6cwue704m4zucm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131467</id>
      <parentid>15131466</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:45:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rurton</username>
        <id>3168296</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131467</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1452" sha1="8e8d8950zhzre6oiuk18sgpnv8nq8iw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rh||LEFT-HANDEDNESS.|29}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of awkwardness in the minds of observers. In French, ''gaucherie'', from ''gauche'', the left, means clownishness.

It is next to impossible for an adult to overcome this habit. The best they can hope for is to gain a sufficient command over the right arm and hand to be able to use it at table, at the blackboard, etc., as others do. Still, they have for their consolation the example of many a poor fellow in the war, who having lost his right arm has acquired singular proficiency in a year or two with his left. We have in our possession several autograph letters of that distinguished soldier and philanthropist Major General Howard, who lost his right forearm at the battle of Fair Oaks. They were written about eighteen months subsequent to his wound, and the penmanship is quite legible and regular.

A want of symmetry in the shoulders is very common among those who write or paint steadily. The right shoulder usually becomes higher, and the bones more prominent. These persons should practise daily and regularly sitting with the left shoulder elevated and the right depressed. They should avoid low-necked dresses, and on state occasions conceal the lack of uniformity by a soft padding. A course of calisthenics is also of great service.

There is a complaint which would be comical were it not so distressing to the sufferer. It is that in which there is a partial palsy of one-half of the face. The&lt;noinclude&gt;{{right|3}|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8e8d8950zhzre6oiuk18sgpnv8nq8iw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131482</id>
      <parentid>15131467</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:52:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rurton</username>
        <id>3168296</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131482</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1452" sha1="2wbyq33wkd0bqaduy3xw0vug5zd9lgj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rh||LEFT-HANDEDNESS.|29}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of awkwardness in the minds of observers. In French, ''gaucherie'', from ''gauche'', the left, means clownishness.

It is next to impossible for an adult to overcome this habit. The best they can hope for is to gain a sufficient command over the right arm and hand to be able to use it at table, at the blackboard, etc., as others do. Still, they have for their consolation the example of many a poor fellow in the war, who having lost his right arm has acquired singular proficiency in a year or two with his left. We have in our possession several autograph letters of that distinguished soldier and philanthropist Major General Howard, who lost his right forearm at the battle of Fair Oaks. They were written about eighteen months subsequent to his wound, and the penmanship is quite legible and regular.

A want of symmetry in the shoulders is very common among those who write or paint steadily. The right shoulder usually becomes higher, and the bones more prominent. These persons should practise daily and regularly sitting with the left shoulder elevated and the right depressed. They should avoid low-necked dresses, and on state occasions conceal the lack of uniformity by a soft padding. A course of calisthenics is also of great service.

There is a complaint which would be comical were it not so distressing to the sufferer. It is that in which there is a partial palsy of one-half of the face. The&lt;noinclude&gt;{{right|3|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2wbyq33wkd0bqaduy3xw0vug5zd9lgj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131483</id>
      <parentid>15131482</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:53:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rurton</username>
        <id>3168296</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131483</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1454" sha1="5x6t4ejd8x9qxehl5o6tddy00knrm6p" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rh||LEFT-HANDEDNESS.|29}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of awkwardness in the minds of observers. In French, ''gaucherie'', from ''gauche'', the left, means clownishness.

It is next to impossible for an adult to overcome this habit. The best they can hope for is to gain a sufficient command over the right arm and hand to be able to use it at table, at the blackboard, etc., as others do. Still, they have for their consolation the example of many a poor fellow in the war, who having lost his right arm has acquired singular proficiency in a year or two with his left. We have in our possession several autograph letters of that distinguished soldier and philanthropist Major General Howard, who lost his right forearm at the battle of Fair Oaks. They were written about eighteen months subsequent to his wound, and the penmanship is quite legible and regular.

A want of symmetry in the shoulders is very common among those who write or paint steadily. The right shoulder usually becomes higher, and the bones more prominent. These persons should practise daily and regularly sitting with the left shoulder elevated and the right depressed. They should avoid low-necked dresses, and on state occasions conceal the lack of uniformity by a soft padding. A course of calisthenics is also of great service.

There is a complaint which would be comical were it not so distressing to the sufferer. It is that in which there is a partial palsy of one-half of the face. The&lt;noinclude&gt;{{center|3*|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5x6t4ejd8x9qxehl5o6tddy00knrm6p</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Personal beauty how to cultivate and preserve it in accordance with the laws of health (1870).djvu/40</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3506864</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131508</id>
      <parentid>11016032</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:07:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rurton</username>
        <id>3168296</id>
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      <text bytes="1367" sha1="erppwjn8nassms6al6fizcmyg5upi50" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Rurton&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|30| PERSONAL BEAUTY.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;effect is most singular. Look at one side, and it may be smiling and full of expression; look at the other and it is motionless and inexpressive. In a much less degree this effect is not unusual. Often there is a want of innervation, that is, the nerve force is not distributed equally to the two sides of the face, and one-half does not correspond exactly to the other. If we examine faces critically from in front (not from the side, as there the profile common to both halves confuses our judgment) we shall rarely find one in which the sides perfectly correspond. This is a misfortune or a fault which generally can, and always ought, to be remedied. When the difficulty is in the innervation, electricity applied by a skilful hand is of benefit; in other cases continued pressure or friction
is effective.

{{rh||RELAXED AND STOOPING FIGURES.}}

It is the proud distinction of man to walk upright. Every other animal must bend and hug the earth. Stooping we associate with age and infirmity. Therefore an erect figure has ever been deemed essential to beauty. Only some passing vagary of fashion would sanction a “Grecian bend.’? No one in the least acquainted with the laws of beauty would adopt or approve it.

A figure straight, lithe, and graceful will excuse a multitude of faults. It can be acquired with great&lt;noinclude&gt;
&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Women of the West.djvu/54</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133206</id>
      <parentid>11131069</parentid>
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        <id>1511</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa, →  Iowa,</comment>
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{{rule}}
{{fine block/s}}{{hanging indent/m}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Henry&amp;nbsp;M. Robert's Parliamentary Law Club, United Daughters of the Confederacy, League of Women Voters. ''Home:'' 3793 Wisconsin St., ''Los Angeles, Calif.''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{hanging indent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;

&lt;noinclude&gt;{{hanging indent/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;COMAN, Mary&amp;nbsp;M. (Mrs.), born in Bulgaria, daughter of William Ward and Susan Dimond Meriam (Missionaries). Resident of California for 34&amp;nbsp;years. Widow of the late Charles&amp;nbsp;W. Coman. Children: William&amp;nbsp;M., Ellis&amp;nbsp;S., Edward&amp;nbsp;C., Carol Coman Holt, Harriet&amp;nbsp;M. Dolcater. Editor and writer, also grower of Sunkist Oranges. Member, Los Angeles County Public Welfare Commission; past president, Pasadena Shakespeare Club; lecturer on current events and books. For 25&amp;nbsp;years editor of “Southern California White Ribbon”; actively engaged in P.&amp;nbsp;T.&amp;nbsp;A. work. Member: Covina Woman's Club, Pasadena Shakespeare Club, American Ass'n. of University Women, Wellesley Club of Southern California, W.&amp;nbsp;C.&amp;nbsp;T.&amp;nbsp;U., Y.&amp;nbsp;W.&amp;nbsp;C.&amp;nbsp;A. ''Home:'' P.&amp;nbsp;O. Box 847, ''Covina, Calif.''

COOKE, Grace MacGowan, (Mrs.), a native of Ohio, former resident of Tennessee and for the last 19&amp;nbsp;years living in California. Children: Helen, Katherine. Taught school in early life; author of about twenty novels, the following three with Calif. background: “The Straight Road,” “Wild Apples,” “The Man Behind the Mask.” ''Home:'' Box 357, ''Carmel-by-the-Sea, Calif.''

COOLIDGE, Mary Roberts, (Mrs. Dane), a native of Indiana, former resident of New York and Ithaca, N.&amp;nbsp;Y., living in California for the last 35&amp;nbsp;years. Married to Dane Coolidge. Professor of Sociology, Mills College, 1918-26; formerly instructor at Wellesley College and Stanford University. Public Speaker on social questions; .president of California Civic League 1915-17. Author: “Almshouse Women,” “Statistics of College and Non-College Women,” “Chinese Immigration,” “Why Women are So,” “The Residuum of Relief, a Study of the Aged and Infirm in San Francisco,” “Sage Foundation.” Member: American Ass'n of University Women, League of Women Voters, National Economic League, Ass'n of University Professors, Indian Defense Ass'n, California Writers Club, California Conference of Social Work. ''Home:'' Dwight Way End, East, ''Berkeley, Calif.''

COOPER, Anne&amp;nbsp;D. (Mrs.), born March&amp;nbsp;30, 1884, in Livermore, California, a daughter of John and Etta Gruwell, a resident of the state for forty-four years. Children: Thomas Henry, John Stanley, Elizabeth Anne. Has been the owner of a department store for seven years. Member: Parlor Lecture Club, Fresno Parthenon, Business and Professional Women's Club, Veterans Foreign Wars (honorary member). Social Betterment Committee of Community Chest, Vocational Committee of Fresno High School, P.&amp;nbsp;T.&amp;nbsp;A., Merchants' Ass'n., Better Business Bureau, Y.&amp;nbsp;W.&amp;nbsp;C.&amp;nbsp;A. ''Home:'' Box 924, ''Fresno, Calif.''

COTTLE, Cassius&amp;nbsp;C. (Mrs.), born in New York State, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Henry&amp;nbsp;A. Church, a resident of California for twenty-three years. Married to Dr. Cassius&amp;nbsp;C. Cottle. Children: William&amp;nbsp;W., Mrs. William Rose Gibbon. Club woman. Interested in patriotic societies; past California State Regent, D.&amp;nbsp;A.&amp;nbsp;R. Member: L.&amp;nbsp;A. Ebell, D.&amp;nbsp;A.&amp;nbsp;R., Daughters of Founders and Patriots of America, Daughters of Barons of Runnymede, Americans of Royal Descent, National Officers (vice-president). Daughters of 1812, etc. ''Home:'' 1412 Victoria Ave., ''Los Angeles, Calif.''

COWAN, Ruth Marie, (Miss), born in Marshfield, Oregon, 1900, daughter of James and Mary&amp;nbsp;E. Cowan, a former resident of Portland, Oregon, living in California for six years. Concert manager. As Southern California Manager for the Wolfsohn Musical Bureau of New York, Inc. has managed the tours and Los Angeles appearances of the following artists: Jascha Heifetz, San Cark Grand Opera Co., Louise Homer, Reginald Werrenrath, Albert Spalding, London String Quartette, Roland Hayes, Charles Hackett, Mabel Garrison, Toscha Seidel, Margaret Matzenauer, Eva Gauthier, Isa Kremer, and many others. Member: Women's University Club, Pro-Musica, Delta Gamma National Sorority. ''Address:'' 429 Philharmonic Auditorium, ''Los Angeles, Calif.''

CRAIL, (Mrs. Charles&amp;nbsp;S.), born November&amp;nbsp;17, 1880, in Fairfield, Iowa, daughter of Congressman M.&amp;nbsp;A. and Mrs. Helen Irland McCoid, a resident of California for the last 15&amp;nbsp;years. Married to Judge Charles Sheward Crail. Children: Gladys Jane, Joe, Jr., Charles, Jr. Active in civic and club affairs. Chairman, President's Council of Los Angeles P.&amp;nbsp;T.&amp;nbsp;A. Parliamentarian of Tenth District, P.&amp;nbsp;T.&amp;nbsp;A.; now curator of Law Department of Ebell Club; member of Juvenile Court Committee; former member&lt;noinclude&gt;{{hanging indent/e}}{{fine block/e}}
{{c|{{smaller|34}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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was tired of it and wished to leave it ; and then Henrietta was 
going away going to stay in Bedfordshire.&quot; 
&quot; In Bedfordshire ? &quot; Ralph exclaimed, with surprise. 
&quot;With Lady Pensil, the sister of Mr. Bantling, who has 
answered for an invitation.&quot; 
Ralph was feeling anxious, but at this he broke into a laugh. 
Suddenly, however, he looked grave again. &quot; Bantling is a man 
of courage. But if the invitation should get lost on the way ] &quot; 
&quot; I thought the British post-office was impeccable.&quot; 
&quot; The good Homer sometimes nods,&quot; said Ralph. &quot; However,&quot; 
he went on, more brightly, &quot; the good Bantling never does, and, 
whatever happens, he will take care of Henrietta,&quot; 
Ralph went to keep his appointment with Sir Matthew Hope, 
and Isabel made her arrangements for quitting Pratt's Hotel. 
He&quot;r uncle's danger touched her nearly, and while she stood 
before her open trunk, looking about her vaguely for what she 
should put into it, the tears suddenly rushed into her eyes. It 
was perhaps for this reason that when Ralph came back at two 
o'clock to take her to the station she was not yet ready. 
He found Miss Stackpole, however, in the sitting-room, where 
she had just risen from the lunch-table, and this lady immedi- 
ately expressed her regret at his father's illness. 
&quot; He is a grand old man,&quot; she said ; &quot; he is faithful to the 
last. If it is really to be the last excuse my alluding to it, 
but you must often have thought of the possibility I am sorry 
that I shall not be at Gardencourt.&quot; 
&quot;You will amuse yourself much more in Bedfordshire.&quot;  
&quot; I shall be sorry to amuse myself at such a time,&quot; said 
Henrietta, with much propriety. But she immediately added 
&quot; I should like so to commemorate the closing scene.&quot; 
&quot; My father may live a long time,&quot; said Ralph, simply. 
Then, adverting to topics more cheerful, he interrogated Miss 
Stackpole as to her own future. 
Now that Ralph was in trouble, she addressed him in a tone 
of larger allowance, and told him that she was much indebted 
to him for having made her acquainted with Mr. Bantling. 
&quot; He has told me just the things I want to know,&quot; she said ; 
&quot; all the society-items and all about the royal family. I can't 
make out that what he tells me about the royal family is much 
to their credit ; but he says that's only my peculiar way of 
looking at it. Well, all I want is that he should give me the 
facts; I can put them together quick enough, once I've got 
them.&quot; And she added that Mr. Bantling had been so good 
as to promise to come and take her out in the afternoon.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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In this light, if in none other, one should aim at the aristocratic 
situation. 
I cannot enumerate all the links in the chain which led 
Isabel to think of Madame Merle's situation as aristocratic a 
view of it never expressed ii. any reference made to it by that 
lady herself. She had known great things and great people, 
but she had never played a great part. She was one of the 
small ones of the earth; she had not been born to honours; 
she knew the world too well to be guilty of any fatuous 
illusions on the subject of her own place in it. She had known 
a good many of the fortunate few, and was perfectly aware of 
.those points at which their fortune differed from hers. But if 
by her own measure she was nothing of a personage, she had 
yet, to Isabel's imagination, a sort of greatness. To be so 
graceful, so gracious, so wise, so good, and to make so light of it 
all that was really to be a great lady ; especially when one 
looked so much like one. If Madame Merle, however, made 
light of her advantages as regards the world, it was not because 
she had not, for her own entertainment, taken them, as I have 
intimated, as seriously as possible. Her natural talents, for 
instance ; these she had zealously cultivated. After breakfast 
she wrote a succession of letters ; her correspondence was a 
source of surprise to Isabel when they sometimes walked 
together to the village post-office, to deposit Madame Merle'? 
contribution to the mail. She knew a multitude of people 
and, as she told Isabel, something was always turning up to be 
written about. Of painting she was devotedly fond, and made 
no more of taking a sketch than of pulling off her gloves. At 
Gardencourt she was perpetually taking advantage of an hour's 
sunshine to go out with a camp-stool and a box of water-colours. 
That she was a brilliant musician we have already perceived, 
and it was evidence of the fact that when she seated herself at 
the piano, as she always did in the evening, her listeners 
resigned themselves without a murmur to losing the entertain- 
ment of her talk. Isabel, since she had known Madame Merle, 
felt ashamed of her own playing, which she now looked upon as 
meagre and artless ; and indeed, though she had been thought 
to play very well, the loss to society when, in taking her place 
upon the music-stool, she turned her back to the room, was 
usually deemed greater than the gain. When Madame Merle 
was neither writing, nor painting, nor touching the piano, she 
was usually employed upon wonderful morsels of picturesque 
embroidery, cushions, curtains, decorations for the chimney- 
piece ; a sort of work in which her bold, free invention was as&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3588974</id>
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        <id>1511</id>
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letter the day one gets it, and that when one comes to stay with 
her one doesn't bring too much luggage, and is careful not to be 
taken ill. For Mrs. Touchett those things constitute virtue ; it's 
a blessing to be able to reduce it to its elements.&quot; 
Madame Merle's conversation, it will be perceived, was enriched 
with bold, free touches of criticism, which, even when they had 
a restrictive effect, never struck Isabel as ill-natured. It never 
occurred to the girl, for instance, that Mrs. Touchett's accom- 
plished guest was abusing her ; and this for very good reasons. 
In the first place Isabel agreed with her ; in the second Madame 
Merle implied that there was a great deal more to say ; and in 
the third, to speak to one without ceremony of one's near 
relations was an agreeable sign of intimacy. These signs of 
intimacy multiplied as the days elapsed, and there was none of 
which Isabel was more sensible than of her companion's prefer- 
ence for making* Miss Archer herself a topic. Though she 
alluded frequently to the incidents of her own life, she never 
lingered upon them ; she was as little of an egotist as she was of 
a gossip. 
&quot; I am old, and stale, and faded,&quot; she said more than once ; 
&quot; I am of no more interest 'than last week's newspaper. You are 
young and fresh, and of to-day; you have* the great thing y&lt;*u 
have actuality. I once had it we all have it for an hour. You, 
however, will have it for longer. Let us talk about you, then , 
you can say nothing that I shall not care to hear. It is a sign 
that I am growing old that I like to talk with younger people. 
I think it's a very pretty compensation. If we can't have youth 
within us we can have it outside of us, and I really think we see 
it and feel it better that way. Of course we must be in sympathy 
with it that I shall always be. I don't know that I shall ever 
be ill-natured with old people I hope not ; there are certainly 
some old people that I adore. But I shall never be ill-natured with 
the young ; they touch me too much. I give you carte blanche, 
then ; you can even be impertinent if you like ; I shall let it 
pass. I talk as if I were a hundred years old, you say 1 ? Well, 
I am, if you please ; I was born before the French Revolution. 
Ah, my dear je viens de loin; I belong to the old world. Eut 
it is not of that I wish to talk; I wish to talk about the new. 
You must tell me more about America; you never tell me 
enough. Here I have been since I was brought here as a helpless 
child, and it is ridiculous, or rather it's scandalous, how little I 
know about the land of my birth. There are a great many of us 
like that, over here ; and I must say I think we are a wretched 
set of people. You should live in your own country ; whatever&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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superficially seemed vacant. Like many of his fellow colonists, 
Mr. Luce was a high or rather a deep conservative, and gave 
no countenance to the government recently established in France. 
He had no faith in its duration, and would assure you from year 
to year that its end was close at hand. &quot; They want to be kept 
down, sir, to be kept down ; nothing but the strong hand the 
iron heel will do for them,&quot; he would frequently say of the 
French people ; and .his ideal of a fine government was that of 
the lately-abolished Empire. &quot; Paris is much less attractive 
than in the days of the Emperor ; he knew how to make a city 
pleasant,&quot; Mr. Luce had often remarked to Mrs. Touchett, who 
was quite of his own way of thinking, and wished to know what 
one had crossed that odious Atlantic for but to get away from 
republics. 
&quot; Why, madam, sitting in the Champs Ely sees, opposite to 
the Palace of Industry, I have seen the court -carriages from the 
Tuileries pass up and down as many as seven times a day. I 
remember one occasion when they went as high as nine times. 
What do you see now f l It's- no use talking, the style's all gone. 
Napoleon knew what the French people want, and there'll be a 
cloud over Paris till they get the Empire back again.&quot; 
Among Mrs. Luce's visitors on Sunday afternoons was a 
young man with whom Isabel had had a good deal of convers- 
ation, and whom she found full of valuable knowledge. Mr. 
Edward Rosier Ned Hosier, as he was called was a native of 
New York, and had been brought up in Paris, living there 
under the eye of his father, who, as it happened, had been an 
old and intimate friend of the late Mr. Archer. Edward Rosier 
remembered Isabel as a little girl ; it had been his father who 
came to the rescue of the little Archers at the inn at Neufchatel 
(he was travelling that way with the boy, and stopped at the 
hotel by chance), after their bonne had gone off with the Russian 
prince and when Mr. Archer's whereabouts remained for some 
days a mystery. Isabel remembered perfectly the neat little 
male child, whose hair smelt of a delicious cosmetic, and who 
had a bonne of his own, warranted to lose sight of him under no 
provocation. Isabel took a walk with the pair beside the lake, 
and thought little Edward as pretty as an angel a comparison 
by no means conventional in her mind, for she had a very 
definite conception of a type of features which she supposed to 
be angelic, and which her new friend perfectly illustrated. A 
small pink face, surmounted by a blue velvet bonnet and set off 
by a stiff embroidered collar, became the countenance of her 
childish dreams ; and she firmly believed for some time after-&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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&quot; Because it's the prettiest you have ; for me you must always 
wear the prettiest. Please put it on the next time. It seems 
to me they don't dress you so well as they might.&quot; 
The child stroked down her antiquated skirt, sparingly. &quot; It's 
a good little dress to make tea don't you think 1 Do you not 
believe papa would allow me ? &quot; 
&quot; Impossible for me to say, my child,&quot; said the Countess. 
&quot;For me, your father's ideas are unfathomable. Madame 
Merle understands them better; ask her.&quot; 
Madame Merle smiled with her usual geniality. &quot; It's a 
weighty question let me think. It seems to me it would 
please your father to see a careful little daughter making his 
tea. It's the proper duty of the daughter of the house when 
she grows up.&quot; 
&quot; So it seems to me, Madame Merle ! &quot; Pansy cried. &quot; You 
shall see how well I will niake it. A spoonful for each.&quot; And 
she began to busy herself at the table. 
&quot; Two spoonfuls for me,&quot; said the Countess, who, with 
Madame Merle, remained for some moments watching her. 
&quot;Listen to me, Pansy,&quot; the Countess resumed at last. &quot;I 
.should like to know what you think of your visitor.&quot; 
&quot; Ah, she is not mine she is papa's,&quot; said Pansy. 
&quot; Miss Archer came to see you as well,&quot; Madame Merle 
remarked. 
&quot; I am very happy to hear that. She has been very polite to me.&quot; 
&quot; Do you like her, then 1 &quot; the Countess asked. 
&quot; She is charming charming,&quot; said Pansy, in her little neat, 
conversational tone. &quot; She pleases me exceedingly.&quot; 
&quot; And you think she pleases your father 1 ? &quot; 
&quot;Ah, really, Countess,&quot; murmured Madame Merle, dissua- 
sively. &quot; Go and call them to tea,&quot; she went on, to the child. 
&quot; You will see if they don't like it ! &quot; Pansy declared ; and 
went off to summon the others, who were still lingering at the 
end of the terrace. 
&quot; If Miss Archer is to become her mother it is surely interest- 
ing to know whether the child likes her,&quot; said the Countess. 
&quot; If your brother marries again it won't be for Pansy's sake,&quot; 
Madame Merle replied. &quot; She will soon be sixteen, and after 
that she will begin to need a husband rather than a stepmother.&quot; 
&quot; And will you provide the husband as well 1 &quot; 
&quot; I shall certainly take an interest in her marrying well. I 
imagine you will do the same.&quot; 
&quot; Indeed I shan't ! &quot; cried the Countess. &quot; Why should I 
of all women, set such a price on a husband ? &quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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good old woman who looks after her. I can't afford a 
governess.&quot; 
&quot; Bring her with you, then,&quot; said Isabel, smiling. 
Mr. Osmond looked grave. 
&quot; She has been in Eome all winter, at her convent ; and she 
is too young to make journeys of pleasure.&quot; 
&quot; You don't like bringing her forward ? &quot; Isabel suggested. 
&quot;No, I think young girls should be kept out of the world.&quot; 
&quot; I was brought up on a different system.&quot; 
&quot;You? Oh, with you it succeeded, because you you were 
exceptional.&quot; 
&quot; I don't see why,&quot; said Isabel, who, however, was not sure 
there was not some truth in the speech. 
Mr. Osmond did not explain ; he simply went on. &quot; If I 
thought it would make her resemble you to join a social group 
in Eorae, I would take her there to-morrow.&quot; 
&quot; Don't make her resemble me,&quot; said Isabel ; &quot; keep her like 
herself.&quot; 
&quot; I might send her to my sister,&quot; Mr. Osmond suggested. He 
had almost the air of asking advice ; he seemed to like to talk 
over his domestic matters with Isabel. 
&quot; Yes,&quot; said the girl ; &quot; I think that would not do much 
towards making her resemble me ! &quot; 
After she had left Florence, Gilbert Osmond met Madame 
Merle at the Countess Gemini's. There were other people 
present ; the Countess's drawing-room was usually well filled, 
and the talk had been general ; but after a while Osmond left 
his place and came and sat on an ottoman half-behind, half- 
beside, Madame Merle's chair. 
&quot; She wants me to go to Rome with her,&quot; he announced, in 
a low voice. 
&quot;Togo with her 1 ?&quot; 
&quot;To be there while she is there. She proposed it.&quot; 
&quot; I suppose you mean that you proposed it, and that she 
assented.&quot; 
&quot; Of course I gave her a chance. But she is encouraging 
she is very encouraging.&quot; 
&quot; I am glad to hear it but don't cry victory too soon. Of 
course you will go to Eome.&quot; 
&quot; Ah,&quot; said Osmond, &quot; it makes one work, this idea of yours !&quot; 
&quot; Don't pretend you don't enjoy it you are very ungrateful. 
You have not been so well occupied these many years.&quot; 
&quot; The way you take it is beautiful,&quot; said Osmond. &quot; I ought 
to be grateful for that.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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&quot; reasonably,&quot; because the proposal was not uttered in the spirit 
of enthusiasm. She had prefigured her visit&quot; as made in solitude ; 
she should like it better so. Nevertheless, to her great consider- 
ation for Madame Merle she was prepared to sacrifice this mystic 
sentiment. 
Her friend meditated, with her usual suggestive smile. &quot;After 
all,&quot; she presently said, &quot;why should we both go; having, each 
of us, so much to do during these last hours 1 &quot; 
&quot;Very good; I can easily go alone.&quot; 
&quot; I don't know about your going alone to the house of a 
handsome bachelor. He has been married but so long ago ! &quot; 
Isabel stared. &quot; When Mr. Osmond is away, what does it 
matter 1 &quot; 
&quot;They don't know he is away, you see.&quot; 
&quot; They ? Whom do you mean ? &quot; 
&quot; Every one. But perhaps it doesn't matter.&quot; 
&quot; If you were going, why shouldn't I ? &quot; Isabel asked. 
&quot; Because I am an old frump, and you are a beautiful young 
woman.&quot; 
&quot; Granting all that, you have not promised.&quot; 
&quot; How much you think of your promises ! &quot; said Madame 
Merle, with a smile of genial mockery. 
&quot; I think a great deal of my promises. Does that surprise 
you 1 &quot; 
&quot; You are right,&quot; Madame Merle reflected audibly. &quot; I really 
think you wish to be kind to the child.&quot; 
&quot; I wish very much to be kind to her.&quot; 
&quot; Go and see her, then ; no one will be the wiser. And tell 
her I would have come if you had not. Or rather,&quot; Madame 
Merle added &quot; don't tell her; she won't care.&quot; 
As Isabel drove, in the publicity of an open vehicle, along the 
charming winding way which led to Mr. Osmond's hill-top, she 
wondered what Madame Merle had meant by no one being the 
wiser. Once in a while, at large intervals, this lady, in whose 
discretion, as a general thing, there was something almost brilliant, 
dropped a remark of ambiguous quality, struck a note that 
sounded false. What cared Isabel Archer for the vulgar judg- 
ments of obscure people 1 and did Madame Merle suppose that 
she was capable of doing a deed in secret? Of course not she 
must have meant something else something which in the press 
of the hours that preceded her departure she had not had time 
to explain. Isabel would return to this some day ; there were 
certain things as to which she liked to be clear. She heard 
Pansy strumming at the piano in another apartment, as she 
T 2&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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&quot;On purpose to scold me ? &quot; 
&quot;I don't know.. She seemed to think she had not seen 
Europe thoroughly.&quot; 
&quot; I am glad you tell me that,&quot; Isabel said. &quot; I must prepare 
for her.&quot; 
Mr. Goodwood fixed his eyes for a moment on the floor ; then 
at last, raising them &quot; Does she know Mr. Osmond ] &quot; he 
asked. 
&quot; A little. And she doesn't like him. But of course I don't 
marry to please Henrietta,&quot; Isabel added. 
It would have been better for poor Caspar if she had tried 
a little more to gratify Miss Stackpole; but he did not say 
so ; he only asked, presently, when her marriage would take 
place. 
&quot; I don't know yet. I can only say it will be soon. I have 
told no one but yourself and one other person an old friend 
of Mr. Osmond's.&quot; 
&quot; Is it a marriage your friends won't like ?&quot; Caspar Goodwood 
asked. 
&quot; I really haven't an idea. As I say, I don't marry for my 
friends.&quot; 
He went on, making no exclamation, no comment, only asking 
questions. 
&quot;What is Mr. Osmond?&quot; 
&quot; What is he 1 Nothing at all but a very good man. He is 
not in business,&quot; said Isabel. &quot; He is not rich ; he is not known 
for anything in particular.&quot; 
She disliked Mr. Goodwood's questions, but she said to her- 
self that she owed it to him to satisfy him as far as possible. 
The satisfaction poor Caspar exhibited was certainly small; he 
sat very upright, gazing at her.- 
&quot; Where does he come from V' he went on. 
&quot; From nowhere. He has spent most of his life in Italy.&quot; 
&quot; You said in your letter that he was an American. Hasn't 
he a native place 1 &quot; 
&quot;Yes, but he has forgotten it. He left it as a small boy.&quot; 
&quot; Has he never gone back ? &quot; 
&quot; Why should he go back ? &quot; Isabel asked, flushing a little, 
and defensively. &quot; He has no profession.&quot; 
&quot; He might have gone back for his pleasure. Doesn't he like 
the United States ? &quot; 
&quot; He doesn't know them. Then he is very simple he con- 
tents himself with Italy.&quot; 
&quot; With Italy and with you,&quot; said Mr. Goodwood, with gloomy&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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plainness, and no appearance of trying to make an epigram. 
&quot;What has he ever done 1 ?&quot; he added, abruptly. 
&quot; That I should marry him 1 Nothing at all,&quot; Isabel replied? 
with a smile that had gradually become a trifle defiant. &quot; If he 
had done great things would you forgive me any better ? Give . 
me up, Mr. Goodwood ; I am marrying a nonentity. Don't try 
to take an interest in him ; you can't.&quot; 
&quot; I can't appreciate him ; that's what you mean. And you 
don't mean in the least that he is a nonentity. You think he is' 
a great man, though no one else thinks so.&quot; 
Isabel's colour deepened ; she thought this very clever of her 
companion, and it was certainly a proof of the clairvoyance of 
such a feeling as his. 
&quot; Why do you always come back to what others think 1 I 
can't discuss Mr. Osmond with you.&quot; 
&quot; Of course not,&quot; said Caspar, reasonably. 
And he sat there with his air of stiff helplessness, as if not 
only this were true, but there were nothing else that they might 
discuss. 
&quot; You see how little you gain,'k Isabel broke out &quot; how little 
comfort or satisfaction I can give you.&quot; 
&quot; I didn't expect you to give me much.'* 
&quot; I don't understand, then, why you came.&quot; 
&quot; I came because I wanted to see you once more as you are.&quot; 
f ' I appreciate that ; but if you had waited a while, sooner or 
later we should have been sure to meet, and our meeting would 
have been pleasanter for each of us than this.&quot; 
&quot; Waited till after you are married 1 That is just what I 
didn't want to do. You will be different then.&quot; 
&quot; Not very. I shall still be a great friend of yours. You 
will see.&quot; 
&quot; That will make it all the worse,&quot; said Mr. Goodwood, grimly. 
&quot; Ah, you are unaccommodating ! I can't promise to dislike 
you, in order to help you to resign yourself.&quot; 
&quot; I shouldn't care if you did ! &quot; 
Isabel got up, with^a movement of repressed impatience, and 
walked to the window, where she remained a moment, looking 
out. When she turned round, her visitor was still motionless in 
his place. She came towards him again and stopped, resting 
her hand on the back of the chair she had just quitted. 
&quot; Do you mean you came simply to look at me 1 That's better 
for you, perhaps, than for me.&quot; 
&quot; I wished to hear the sound of your voice,&quot; said Caspar. 
&quot; You have heard it, and you % see it says nothing very sweet.&quot; 
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Hosier's eyes wandered, lingeringly, round the room again. 
&quot; You have some very good things.&quot; 
&quot; Yes, but I hate them.&quot; 
&quot; Do you want to get rid of them ? &quot; the young man asked 
quickly. f 
&quot; No, it's good to have something to hate ; one works it off.&quot; 
&quot;I love my things,&quot; said Eosier, as he sat there smiling. 
&quot; But it's not about them nor about yours, that I came to talk 
to you.&quot; He paused a moment, and then, with greater softness 
&quot;I care more for Miss Osmond than for all the frtfefefoin 
Europe ! &quot; 
Madame Merle started a little. 
&quot; Did you come to tell me that ? &quot; 
&quot; I came to ask your advice.&quot; 
She looked at him with a little frown, stroking her chin. 
&quot; A man in love, you know, doesn't ask advice.&quot; 
&quot; Why not, if he is in a difficult position? That's often the 
case with a man in love. I have been in love before, and I 
know. But never so much as this time really, never so much, 
I should like particularly to know what you think of my pros- 
pects. I'm afraid Mr. Osmond doesn't think me a phoenix.&quot; 
&quot; Do you wish me to intercede ] &quot; Madame Merle asked, with 
her fine arms folded, and her mouth drawn up to the left. 
&quot; If you could say a good word for me, I should be greatly 
obliged. There will be no use in my troubling Miss Osmond 
unless I have good reason to believe her father will consent.&quot; 
&quot; You are very considerate ; that's in your favour. But you 
assume, in rather an off-hand way, that I think you a prize.&quot; 
&quot;You have been very kind to me,&quot; said the young man. 
&quot; That's why I came.&quot; 
&quot;I am always kind to people who have good bibelots there 
is no telling what one may get by it.&quot; 
And the left-hand corner of Madame Merle's mouth gave 
expression to the joke. 
Edward Rosier stared and blushed ; his correct features were 
suffused with disappointment. 
&quot; Ah, I thought you liked me for myself ! &quot; 
&quot; I like you very much ; but, if you please, we won't analyse. 
Excuse me if I seem patronising; but I think you a perfect 
little gentleman. I must tell you, however, that I have not the 
marrying of Pansy Osmond.&quot; 
&quot; I didn't suppose that. But you have seemed to me intimate 
with her family, and I thought you might have influence.&quot; 
Madame Merle was silent a moment.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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situation, just as it was her habit to interpose a good many 
blank-looking pauses. A long pause followed the last words I 
have quoted; and before it was broken again, she saw Pansy 
come out of the adjoining room, followed by Edward Eosier. 
Pansy advanced a few steps and then stopped and stood looking 
at Madame Merle and at her father. 
&quot;He has spoken to her,&quot; Madame Merle said, simply, to 
Osmond. 
Her companion never turned his head. &quot; So much for your 
belief in his promises. He ought to be horsewhipped.&quot; 
&quot; He intends to confess, poor little man ! &quot; 
Osmond got up ; he had now taken a sharp look at his 
daughter. &quot; It doesn't matter,&quot; he murmured, turning away. 
Pansy after a moment came up to Madame Merle with her 
little manner of unfamiliar politeness. This lady's reception of 
her was not more intimate ; she simply, as she rose from the 
sofa, gave her a friendly smile. 
&quot; You are very late,&quot; said the young girl, gently. 
&quot; My dear child, I am never later than I intend to be.&quot; 
Madame Merle had not got up to be gracious to Pansy ; she 
moved towards Edward Rosier. He came to meet her, and, 
very quickly, as if to get it off his mind &quot; I have spoken to 
her ! &quot; he whispered. 
&quot;I know it, Mr. Hosier.&quot; 
&quot;Did she tell you?&quot; 
&quot;Yes, she told me. Behave properly for the rest of the 
evening, and come and see me to-morrow at a quarter past five.&quot; 
She was severe, and in the manner in which she turned her 
back to him there was a degree of conte'mpt which caused him 
to mutter a decenb imprecation. 
He had 110 intention of speaking to Osmond ; it was neither 
the time nor the place. But he instinctively wandered towards 
Isabel, who sat talking with an old lady. He sat down on the 
other side of her ; the old lady was an Italian, and Eosier took 
for granted that she understood no English. 
&quot; You said just now you wouldn't help me,&quot; he began, to 
Mrs. Osmond. &quot; Perhaps you will feel differently when you 
know when you know &quot; 
He hesitated a little. 
&quot;When I know what ?&quot; Isabel asked, gently. 
&quot; That she is all right.&quot; 
&quot; What do you mean by that ? &quot; 
&quot;Well, -that we have come to an understanding,&quot; 
&quot; She is all wrong,&quot; said Isabel. &quot; It won't do.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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strength. An hour ago, when I bade him good-night, he told 
me that he was very tired, but very happy. Go to him in the 
morning ; that's all I mean. I didn't tell him I was coming 
here ; I didn't think of it till after we separated. Then I 
remembered that he had told me that you had an evening, and 
that it was this very Thursday. It occurred to me to come in 
and tell you that he was here, and let you know that you had 
perhaps better not wait for him to call. I think he said he had 
not written to you.&quot; There was no need of Isabel's declaring 
that she would act upon Lord Warburton's information ; she 
looked, as she sat there, like a winged creature held back. 
&quot; Let alone that I wanted to see you for myself,&quot; her visitor 
added, gallantly. 
&quot; I don't understand Ralph's plan ; it seems to me very wild,&quot; 
she said. &quot; I was glad to think of him between those thick 
walls at Gardencourt.&quot; 
&quot; He was completely alone there ; the thick walls were his 
only company.&quot; 
&quot; You went to see him ; you have been extremely kind.&quot; 
&quot; Oh dear, I had nothing to do,&quot; said Lord Warburton. 
&quot; We hear, on the contrary, that you are doing great things. 
Every one speaks of you as a great statesman, and I am per- 
petually seeing your name in the Times, which, by the way, 
doesn't appear to hold it in reverence. You are apparently as 
bo!4 a radical as ever.&quot; 
&quot; I don't feel nearly so bold ; you know the world has come 
round to me. Touchett and I have kept up a sort of Parliament- 
ary debate, all the way from London. I tell him he is the last 
of the Tories, and he calls me the head of the Communists. So 
you see there is life in him yet.&quot; 
Isabel had many questions to ask about Ralph, but she 
abstained from asking them alL She would see for herself on 
the morrow. She perceived that after a little Lord Warburton 
would tire of that subject that he had a consciousness of other 
possible topics. She was more and more able to say to herself 
that he had recovered, and, what is more to the point, she was 
able to say- it without bitterness. He had been for her, of old, 
such an image of urgency, of insistence, of something to be 
resisted and reasoned with, that his reappearance at first 
menaced her with a new trouble. But she was ncjw reassured ; 
she could see that he only wished to live with heron good terms, 
that she was to understand that he had forgiven her and was 
incapable of the bad taste of making pointed allusions. This 
was not a form of revenge, of course ; she had no suspicion that&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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He looked among the dancers, and at last caught Pansy's 
eye. &quot; She sees me, but she won't notice me,&quot; he then remarked. 
&quot; Are you not dancing ? &quot; 
&quot; As you see, I'm a wall-flower.&quot; 
&quot; Won't you dance with me 1 &quot; 
&quot; Thank you ; I would rather you should dance with my 
little maid.&quot; 
&quot; One needn't prevent the other ; especially as she is engaged.&quot; 
&quot; She is not engaged for everything, and you can reserve your- 
self. She dances very hard, and you will be the fresher.&quot; 
&quot; She dances beautifully,&quot; said Lord Warburton, following her 
with his eyes. &quot;Ah, at last,&quot; he added, &quot;she has given me a 
smile.&quot; He stood there with his handsome, ea.sy, important 
physiognomy ; and as Isabel observed him it came over her, as 
it had done before, that it was strange a man of his importance 
should take an interest in a little maid. It struck her as a great 
incongruity ; neither Pansy's small fascinations, nor his own 
kindness, his good-nature, not even his need for amusement, 
which was extreme and constant, were sufficient to account for 
it. &quot; I shall like to dance with you,&quot; he went on in a moment, 
turning back to Isabel ; &quot; but I think I like even better to talk 
with you.&quot; 
&quot; Yes, it's better, and it's more worthy of -your dignity. Great 
statesmen oughtn't to waltz.&quot; 
&quot; Don't be cruel. Why did you recommend me then to dance 
with Miss Osmond 1 &quot; 
&quot;Ah, that's different. If you dance with her, it would look 
simply like a piece of kindness as if you were doing it for her 
amusement. If you dance with me you will look as if you were 
doing it for your own.&quot; 
&quot; And pray haven't I a right to amuse myself ? &quot; 
&quot;No, not with the affairs of the British Empire on your 
hands.&quot; 
&quot; The British Empire be hanged ! You are always laughing 
at it.&quot; 
&quot; Amuse yourself with talking to me,&quot; said Isabel. 
&quot; I am not sure that is a recreation. You are too pointed ; I 
have always to be defending myself. And you strike me as 
more than usually dangerous to-night. Won't you really dance] &quot; 
&quot; I can't leave my place. Pansy must find me here.&quot; 
He was silent a moment. &quot; You are wonderfully good to 
her,&quot; he said, suddenly. 
Isabel stared a little, and smiled. &quot; Can you imagine one's 
not being 1 &quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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the credit of expressing sympathy. Osmond held to his credit, 
and yet he held to his objections all of which were elements 
difficult to reconcile. The right thing would have been that 
Miss Stackpole should come to dine at the Palazzo Koccanera 
once or twice, so that (in spite of his superficial civility, always 
so great) she might judge for herself how little pleasure it gave 
him. From the moment, however, that both the ladies were so 
unaccommodating, there was nothing for Osmond but to wish 
that Henrietta would take herself off. It was surprising how 
little satisfaction he got from his wife's friends ; he took occasion 
to call Isabel's attention to it. 
&quot; You are certainly not, fortunate in your intimates ; I wish 
you might make a new collection,&quot; he said to her one morning, 
in reference to nothing visible at the moment, hut in a tone of 
ripe reflection which deprived the remark of all brutal abrupt- 
ness. &quot; It's as if you had taken 'the trouble to pick out the 
people in the world that I have least in common with. Your 
cousin I have always thought a conceited ass besides his being 
the most ill-favoured animal I know. Then it's insufferably 
tiresome that one can't tell him so ; one must spare him on 
account of his health. His health seems to me the best part of 
him ; it gives him privileges enjoyed by no one else. If he is 
so desperately ill there is only one way to prove it ; but he 
seems to have no mind for that. I can't say much more for 
the great War.burton. When one really thinks of it, the cool 
insolence of that performance was something rare ! He comes 
and looks at one's daughter as if she were a suite of apartments ; 
he tries the door-handles and looks out of the windows, raps on 
the walls and almost thinks he will take the place. Will you 
be so good as to draw up a lease 1 Then, on the whole, he 
decides that the rooms are too small ; he doesn't think he could 
live on a third floor ; he must look out for a piano nobile. And 
he goes away, after having got a month's lodging in the poor 
little apartment for nothing. Miss Stackpole, however, is your 
most wonderful invention. She strikes me as a kind of monster. 
One hasn't a nerve in one's body that she doesn't set quivering. 
You know I never have admitted that she is a woman. Do you 
know what she reminds me oil Of a new steel pen the most 
odious thing in nature. She talks as a steel pen writes ; aren't 
her letters, by the way, on ruled paper 1 ? She thinks and moves, 
and walks and looks, exactly as she talks. You may say that 
she doesn't hurt me, inasmuch as I don't see her. I don't see 
her, but I hear her ; I hear her all day long. Her voice is in 
my ears ; I can't get rid of it. I know exactly what she says,&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Professor Shimek.jpg</title>
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{{rule|5em}}
{{c|{{x-larger|Connected With University Department For 46 Years}}}}
{{rule|5em}}
IOWA CITY, Ia., Jan. 3.—([[Portal:Associated Press|Associated Press]])—Prof. Bohumil Shimek, 75, nationally known botanist, died at his home here shortly after 1 a. m. today. His death was attributed to heart complications and influenza.

{| {{ts|fll|mr5}}
| {{ts|ba2|p.5}} | [[File:Bohumil Shimek3.jpg|125px|center]]
|-
|{{ts|ac}} | '''Professor Shimek'''
|}

Professor Shimek, who had been connected with the University of Iowa for 46 years, had become widely known for his work in taxidermic botany.

Shimek was born in Shueyville, near Iowa City, June 25, 1861.

Survivors include his widow; five children, four daughters, Ella Shimek of Iowa City, Mrs P. J. Hanzlik, San Mateo, Calif., Mrs M. O. Hanzlik of Cedar Rapids, and Mrs George Krepelka, and one son, Frank J. Shimek of Kinston, N. Y., and five grandchildren.
{{c|'''Plant Expert'''}}
Considered generally as America’s foremost plant ecologist Bohumil Shimek as almost equally at home in the field of zoology, geology and and engineering, His method of focussing the data of more than one science won for him, perhaps, special distinction in plant geography and in the geological interpretation of the conspicuous loess formations of Iowa.

Professor Shimek was the highest authority in America on problems of prairies and similar treeless areas. His theory as to the cause of this condition has now been generally accepted throughout the world. In his college days Professor Shimek studied engineering and after receiving a degree in this course helped organize the first engineering society in Iowa in 1883. He drew up the constitution for the organization and served as its first secretary.

Canada, United States, Mexico and Central America were laboratories for Professor Shimek in the floral research field. “His collection of plants and fossils will probably never be duplicated,” according to Prof. R. B. Wiley, head of the {{SIC|bontany|botany}} department at the University of Iowa.
{{c|'''Fossil Collection'''}}
Mr Shimek’s Collection of fossils from the yellow clay deposits of the central Mississippi river basin is the largest in the country. The fact that wind more often than any other natural factor is responsible for these {{SIC|deposit |deposits}} is one of Mr Shimek’s contributions to scientific research.
{{rule|10em}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{custom rule|sp|40|d|6|sp|40}}
{{c|{{xx-larger|{{uc|Death of Mr. George Howell Baker.}}}}}}
{{rule|4em|margin-tb=1em}}

The death of Mr. [[Author:George Howell-Baker|George Howell Baker]], A.R.W.A., at the age of 48, which occurred at his residence, Ingleside, Bridgend, on Friday night, has removed from the world of art a man of considerable ability and attainments. Circumstances had been against him during the greater part of his career, but he was inspired by a wonderful optimism, and worked on until two years ago his hard toil resulted in a serous nervous breakdown which culminated in a fatal seizure.

Mr Baker was well known in Paris and London, was permanently represented in the art galleries of Cardiff, Bristol, Swansea, and Aberystwyth, and exhibited at the Salon, Paris, and the &quot;{{lang|fr|Section de Gravures du Salon Artistes Français}},&quot; and a number of the best-known London galleries. In press notices he was included with artists in the front rank. He was a lecturer in art for Swansea, Bridgend, Port Talbot, Llantrissant, and the Ogmore and Garw Valleys, and five or six years ago was made a member of the art council in connection with the Glamorgan Education Committee.

The symbolic and imaginative nature of his work was considered unique by Sir [[Portal:Ernest Albert Waterlow|Ernest Waterlow]], and the {{AQID|Q7351172|Earl of Plymouth}} in several pages of commendatory criticism on his pen and ink work accepted the dedication of two pen and ink sketches, one being &quot;The Forest Hymn,&quot; a series of beautiful illustrations of a well-known composition. The Earl of Plymouth so admired his work that he promised to further the publication of his efforts in the right channels. It was in symbolic painting and pen and ink sketches that Mr. Baker excelled.

Amongst the oil paintings that have received favourable criticism are &quot;Joan of Arc,&quot; in St Anne's, Rouen; &quot;The Angel of Pity,&quot; in Venetian style, which was exhibited in the Salon, Paris; &quot;Dusk,&quot; &quot;A Window in the Woodlands,&quot; &quot;The Serpent in the Wilderness&quot; (which was much admired), and &quot;The Model,&quot; a painting which was warmly commented upon by Sir Ernest Waterlow, and &quot;In Memoriam.&quot; &quot;Llanilid Church,&quot; a choice painting in oils was accepted by the Royal Academy.

Mr. Baker was a man of versatile talent, and did carving, etching, and silverpoint. His design for applied art was exhibited not only in Europe, but in America and Australia. While at Owen's College (now Victoria University), Manchester, he received honorary mention for biology and zoology. He was a great reader, and wrote much poetry.

A son of the late Mr. Geo. Baker, of London and Manchester, and of Mrs. Baker, Bridgend, he was born at Prestwich Park, and was unmarried.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Who's Who in the Far East</title>
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 | title      = Who's Who in the Far East
 | year       = 1906
 | author     = 
 | translator =
 | section    =
 | previous   =
 | next       =
 | notes      =(June) 1906-7 {{engine|break=no}}
}}

{{#tag:pages||index=Who's who in the Far East, 1906-7, June (IA whoswhoinfareast00hongrich).pdf|from=7|to=7}}
&lt;!-- {{#tag:pages||index=Who's who in the Far East, 1906-7, June (IA whoswhoinfareast00hongrich).pdf|from=8|to=20}} --&gt;

== Biographies ==
* [[/ABE, Taizo|ABE, Taizo]]
* [[/ACTON, Roger David|ACTON, Roger David]]
* [[/ACTON, William Walter|ACTON, William Walter]]
* [[/ADACHI, Tsunayuki|ADACHI, Tsunayuki]]
* [[/ADAM, Charles M.|ADAM, Charles M.]]
* [[/ADAMS, Arthur Robert|ADAMS, Arthur Robert]]
* [[/ADVOCAAT, Gysbert Diederik|ADVOCAAT, Gysbert Diederik]]
* [[/AGER, Albert Powtrill|AGER, Albert Powtrill]]
* [[/AIKEN, Rev. Edwin Edgerton|AIKEN, Rev. Edwin Edgerton]]
* [[/AINSLIE, Dr. David Hunter|AINSLIE, Dr. David Hunter]]
* [[/AITKEN, Lieut.-Col. Arthur Edward|AITKEN, Lieut.-Col. Arthur Edward]]
* [[/AKAMATSU, Noriyoshi Baron|AKAMATSU, Noriyoshi Baron]]
* [[/AKIMOTO, Viscount|AKIMOTO, Viscount]]
* [[/ALDWORTH, John Richard Oliver|ALDWORTH, John Richard Oliver]]
* [[/ALEXANDER, Charles Shuldham|ALEXANDER, Charles Shuldham]]
* [[/ALGUE, Jose|ALGUE, Jose]]
* [[/ALLEN, Edgar Pierce|ALLEN, Edgar Pierce]]
* [[/ALLEN, Morris Anthony Vermont|ALLEN, Morris Anthony Vermont]]
* [[/ALLEN, W. N. C.|ALLEN, W. N. C.]]
* [[/ALLEN, William Stanley|ALLEN, William Stanley]]
* [[/ALLIN, Charles Henry|ALLIN, Charles Henry]]
* [[/ALMADA e CASTRO, F. X. D'|ALMADA e CASTRO, F. X. D']]
* [[/AMANO, Dr. Tameyuki|AMANO, Dr. Tameyuki]]
* [[/AMERY, Rev. Albert John|AMERY, Rev. Albert John]]
* [[/AMERY, Geoffrey Julian|AMERY, Geoffrey Julian]]
* [[/AMUERHLINGKUEI, Prince|AMUERHLINGKUEI, Prince]]
* [[/AN-CH ENG|AN-CH ENG]]
* [[/ANDERSEN, N. P.|ANDERSEN, N. P.]]
* [[/ANDERSON, Frederick|ANDERSON, Frederick]]
* [[/ANDERSON, Sir John|ANDERSON, Sir John]]
* [[/ANDERSON, HOD. John|ANDERSON, HOD. John]]
* [[/ANDERSON, Dr. John Arthur|ANDERSON, Dr. John Arthur]]
* [[/ANDERSON, Robert Ogilvie Newton|ANDERSON, Robert Ogilvie Newton]]
* [[/ANDERSON, W. H.|ANDERSON, W. H.]]
* [[/ANDREW, John Ingram|ANDREW, John Ingram]]
* [[/ANETOOM, Dr. Thaddeus Cachick|ANETOOM, Dr. Thaddeus Cachick]]
* [[/ANTHONISZ, James Oliver|ANTHONISZ, James Oliver]]
* [[/AORI, Visccunt|AORI, Visccunt]]
* [[/AO T'IEN-YIN, Generial|AO T'IEN-YIN, Generial]]
* [[/ARAKI, Kwanpo|ARAKI, Kwanpo]]
* [[/ARDEN, Stanley|ARDEN, Stanley]]
* [[/ARICHI, Baron Vica-Admiral Shinanosuke|ARICHI, Baron Vica-Admiral Shinanosuke]]
* [[/ARIGA, Nagao|ARIGA, Nagao]]
* [[/ARIMA, Tadaichi|ARIMA, Tadaichi]]
* [[/ARISAKA, Major-General|ARISAKA, Major-General]]
* [[/ARISUGAWA, Prince|ARISUGAWA, Prince]]
* [[/ARMSTRONG, John|ARMSTRONG, John]]
* [[/ARMSTRONG, William Reginald|ARMSTRONG, William Reginald]]
* [[/ARNOLD, Thomas|ARNOLD, Thomas]]
* [[/ARTHUR, James Startin Wills|ARTHUR, James Startin Wills]]
* [[/ASABUKI, Yeiji|ASABUKI, Yeiji]]
* [[/ASADA, Yasunori|ASADA, Yasunori]]
* [[/ASANO, Soichiro|ASANO, Soichiro]]
* [[/ATKINSON, Dr. John Mitford|ATKINSON, Dr. John Mitford]]
* [[/ATOMI, Takino|ATOMI, Takino]]
* [[/AWDRY, Rt. Rev. William|AWDRY, Rt. Rev. William]]
* [[/AXLING, Rev. William|AXLING, Rev. William]]
* [[/AZEGAMI, Abbot Baisen|AZEGAMI, Abbot Baisen]]
* [[/BADDELEY, Frank Morrish|BADDELEY, Frank Morrish]]
* [[/BADELEY, Francis Joseph|BADELEY, Francis Joseph]]
* [[/BAILEY, Arthur W.|BAILEY, Arthur W.]]
* [[/BAILEY, Demetrius J. S.|BAILEY, Demetrius J. S.]]
* [[/BAILEY, W. S.|BAILEY, W. S.]]
* [[/BAILLE, Charles Fredieric|BAILLE, Charles Fredieric]]
* [[/BAIN, George Murray|BAIN, George Murray]]
* [[/BAKENDALE, Arthur Salisbury|BAKENDALE, Arthur Salisbury]]
* [[/BAKER, Edgar Morris|BAKER, Edgar Morris]]
* [[/BAKER, Thomas Summers|BAKER, Thomas Summers]]
* [[/BALL, James Dyer|BALL, James Dyer]]
* [[/BANISTER, Ven. Archdeacon W.|BANISTER, Ven. Archdeacon W.]]
* [[/BARCLAY, Rev. Thomas|BARCLAY, Rev. Thomas]]
* [[/BARING, Hon Caryl Digby|BARING, Hon Caryl Digby]]
* [[/BARKER, Dr. Alfred J. Glanville|BARKER, Dr. Alfred J. Glanville]]
* [[/BARKER Arthur|BARKER Arthur]]
* [[/BARLOW, Frances Collins|BARLOW, Frances Collins]]
* [[/BARLOW, G. Pratt|BARLOW, G. Pratt]]
* [[/BARNARD, Henry Cuthbert|BARNARD, Henry Cuthbert]]
* [[/BARNES-LAWRENCE, Captain|BARNES-LAWRENCE, Captain]]
* [[/BARNES, Warren D.|BARNES, Warren D.]]
* [[/BARNETT, Rev. Ernest Judd|BARNETT, Rev. Ernest Judd]]
* [[/BARRACK, Dr. James William|BARRACK, Dr. James William]]
* [[/BARRETT, E. G.|BARRETT, E. G.]]
* [[/BARRETT, Capt. Edward Ivo Medhurst|BARRETT, Capt. Edward Ivo Medhurst]]
* [[/BARRETTO, FradericD Damee|BARRETTO, FradericD Damee]]
* [[/BARTLETT, Samual Coleord|BARTLETT, Samual Coleord]]
* [[/BARTON, Sidney|BARTON, Sidney]]
* [[/BASHFORD, Dr. James Whitford|BASHFORD, Dr. James Whitford]]
* [[/BATTENBERG, William Alexander Newton|BATTENBERG, William Alexander Newton]]
* [[/BAYLE, Vice-Admiral C. J.|BAYLE, Vice-Admiral C. J.]]
* [[/BAYNE, W. G.|BAYNE, W. G.]]
* [[/BEAN, Alfred William|BEAN, Alfred William]]
* [[/BEARDSLEY, James Wallace|BEARDSLEY, James Wallace]]
* [[/BEATTY, David|BEATTY, David]]
* [[/BEAU, Paul|BEAU, Paul]]
* [[/BEAVIS, Charles Edward Hartnell|BEAVIS, Charles Edward Hartnell]]
* [[/BECK, J. M.|BECK, J. M.]]
* [[/BECKETT, Walter Ralph Durie|BECKETT, Walter Ralph Durie]]
* [[/BELFIELD, Frederick|BELFIELD, Frederick]]
* [[/BELFIELD, Henry Conway|BELFIELD, Henry Conway]]
* [[/BELL, Dr. John|BELL, Dr. John]]
* [[/BELL, W. G.|BELL, W. G.]]
* [[/BENBOW, Major John Edward|BENBOW, Major John Edward]]
* [[/BENHAM-BROWN, Rev. Henry John|BENHAM-BROWN, Rev. Henry John]]
* [[/BENNETT, Edward Leigh|BENNETT, Edward Leigh]]
* [[/BENNETT, Ernest Fredk.|BENNETT, Ernest Fredk.]]
* [[/BEKT, Herbert|BEKT, Herbert]]
* [[/BERINDOAGUE, Louis|BERINDOAGUE, Louis]]
* [[/BERKELEY, Sir Henry Spencer|BERKELEY, Sir Henry Spencer]]
* [[/BERKELEY, Hubert|BERKELEY, Hubert]]
* [[/BERNARD, Basil Henry Francis|BERNARD, Basil Henry Francis]]
* [[/BERNER, Iwan|BERNER, Iwan]]
* [[/BERRINGTON, Arthur Tewdyr Davies|BERRINGTON, Arthur Tewdyr Davies]]
* [[/BERRY, Prof. Arthur Daniel|BERRY, Prof. Arthur Daniel]]
* [[/BERTHEL, Carl|BERTHEL, Carl]]
* [[/BICKNE LL, William Alfred|BICKNE LL, William Alfred]]
* [[/BILLINGS, George Michael|BILLINGS, George Michael]]
* [[/BIRBECK, R. J.|BIRBECK, R. J.]]
* [[/BIRCH, Ernest Woodford|BIRCH, Ernest Woodford]]
* [[/BIRCH, James Kortright|BIRCH, James Kortright]]
* [[/BIRD, R. E. O.|BIRD, R. E. O.]]
* [[/BISHOP, James E.|BISHOP, James E.]]
* [[/BLACK, John Stawart|BLACK, John Stawart]]
* [[/BLACKSHAW, Walter|BLACKSHAW, Walter]]
* [[/BLAIKIE, Rev. Garden|BLAIKIE, Rev. Garden]]
* [[/BLAND, Robert Norman|BLAND, Robert Norman]]
* [[/BLAND, John Otway Percy|BLAND, John Otway Percy]]
* [[/BLOCK HUYS, Prof. Edward Joseph|BLOCK HUYS, Prof. Edward Joseph]]
* [[/BLUNT, Edward Thomas Joseph|BLUNT, Edward Thomas Joseph]]
* [[/PLUKT, Major Charles Jasper|PLUKT, Major Charles Jasper]]
* [[/BOISRAGON, Capt. A. M.|BOISRAGON, Capt. A. M.]]
* [[/BOLLES, John Walker|BOLLES, John Walker]]
* [[/BOLDERO, Capt A. H.|BOLDERO, Capt A. H.]]
* [[/BONAR, Henry Alfred Constant|BONAR, Henry Alfred Constant]]
* [[/BONDFIELD, Rev. George Henry|BONDFIELD, Rev. George Henry]]
* [[/BONE, Rev. C.|BONE, Rev. C.]]
* [[/BONNAR, John Whyte Cooper|BONNAR, John Whyte Cooper]]
* [[/BONNETIAN, Emile Louis Victor|BONNETIAN, Emile Louis Victor]]
* [[/BOOTH, Robert Henry-Gore|BOOTH, Robert Henry-Gore]]
* [[/BOOTH, William Claude|BOOTH, William Claude]]
* [[/BOS, Antoine|BOS, Antoine]]
* [[/BOUCHE, Frederic|BOUCHE, Frederic]]
* [[/BOUGUIE, General Raoul L.|BOUGUIE, General Raoul L.]]
* [[/BOULTON, James Fettes|BOULTON, James Fettes]]
* [[/BOURCIER-SAINT-CHAFFRAY|BOURCIER-SAINT-CHAFFRAY]]
* [[/BOURNE, Frederick Samuel Augustus|BOURNE, Frederick Samuel Augustus]]
* [[/BOWEN, Charles David|BOWEN, Charles David]]
* [[/BOWEN, Lambert|BOWEN, Lambert]]
* [[/BOWER, Captain William Montagu Lance|BOWER, Captain William Montagu Lance]]
* [[/BOWRA, Cecil A. V.|BOWRA, Cecil A. V.]]
* [[/BOWLEY, Francis Bulmer Lyon.|BOWLEY, Francis Bulmer Lyon.]]
* [[/BOYCE KUP, John|BOYCE KUP, John]]
* [[/BOYD, W. Porter|BOYD, W. Porter]]
* [[/BOYER, Mourice Marius|BOYER, Mourice Marius]]
* [[/BRADDEL, Robert Wallace Glen Lee|BRADDEL, Robert Wallace Glen Lee]]
* [[/BRADDON, Dr. William Leonard|BRADDON, Dr. William Leonard]]
* [[/BRADY, Herbert Francis|BRADY, Herbert Francis]]
* [[/BREDON, Sir Robert Edward|BREDON, Sir Robert Edward]]
* [[/BRESLAND, Charles William|BRESLAND, Charles William]]
* [[/BREWIN, Hon. Arthur Winbolt|BREWIN, Hon. Arthur Winbolt]]
* [[/BREWITT-TAYLOR, Charles Henry|BREWITT-TAYLOR, Charles Henry]]
* [[/BREWSTER, Edward John|BREWSTER, Edward John]]
* [[/BRINKLEY, Captain F.|BRINKLEY, Captain F.]]
* [[/BROADRICK, Edward George|BROADRICK, Edward George]]
* [[/BROCKMAN, Edward Lewis|BROCKMAN, Edward Lewis]]
* [[/BROKAW, Rev. Harvey|BROKAW, Rev. Harvey]]
* [[/BRONI, S.|BRONI, S.]]
* [[/BROOKE, H. H. Sir Charles Johnson|BROOKE, H. H. Sir Charles Johnson]]
* [[/BROOKE, Dr. Gilbert E.|BROOKE, Dr. Gilbert E.]]
* [[/BROU, Noce Pierre|BROU, Noce Pierre]]
* [[/BROWN, Alfred Vanhouse|BROWN, Alfred Vanhouse]]
* [[/BROWN, David Alexander Murray|BROWN, David Alexander Murray]]
* [[/BROWN, David E.|BROWN, David E.]]
* [[/BROWN, Dr. James Edward Myles|BROWN, Dr. James Edward Myles]]
* [[/BROWN, John McLeavy|BROWN, John McLeavy]]
* [[/BROWN, Rev. Frederick|BROWN, Rev. Frederick]]
* [[/BROWN, Rev. Henry John Benham|BROWN, Rev. Henry John Benham]]
* [[/BROWNE, Frank|BROWNE, Frank]]
* [[/BRUTTON, George Kingston Hall|BRUTTON, George Kingston Hall]]
* [[/BRYANT, Alfred Thomas|BRYANT, Alfred Thomas]]
* [[/BRYSON, Mrs. Thomas|BRYSON, Mrs. Thomas]]
* [[/BUCHANAN, Charles Sumner|BUCHANAN, Charles Sumner]]
* [[/BUNBURY, Rev. George Alexander|BUNBURY, Rev. George Alexander]]
* [[/BURDON, Rt. Rev. John Shaw|BURDON, Rt. Rev. John Shaw]]
* [[/BURGESS, Harry Astell|BURGESS, Harry Astell]]
* [[/BURGESS, Percival James|BURGESS, Percival James]]
* [[/BURN-MURDOCK, Alfred Maule|BURN-MURDOCK, Alfred Maule]]
* [[/BURNSIDE, Edmund|BURNSIDE, Edmund]]
* [[/BUSH, Harry A.|BUSH, Harry A.]]
* [[/BUTLER, Dobree|BUTLER, Dobree]]
* [[/BYRNE, Harold Edward|BYRNE, Harold Edward]]
* [[/CAILLARD, Gaston Felix|CAILLARD, Gaston Felix]]
* [[/CAINADAN, O.|CAINADAN, O.]]
* [[/CALDWELL, George A.|CALDWELL, George A.]]
* [[/CALTHROP, Horace Gaorge|CALTHROP, Horace Gaorge]]
* [[/CAMERON, Alexander|CAMERON, Alexander]]
* [[/CAMPAGNOL, Andre Edmond|CAMPAGNOL, Andre Edmond]]
* [[/CAMPBELL, Archibald|CAMPBELL, Archibald]]
* [[/CAMPBELL, Archibald Angus|CAMPBELL, Archibald Angus]]
* [[/CAMPBELL, Charles William|CAMPBELL, Charles William]]
* [[/CAMPBELL, Douglas Graham|CAMPBELL, Douglas Graham]]
* [[/CAMPBELL, Rev. W.|CAMPBELL, Rev. W.]]
* [[/CANDLIN, Rev. G. T.|CANDLIN, Rev. G. T.]]
* [[/CAPEN, Rev. Randall Thomas|CAPEN, Rev. Randall Thomas]]
* [[/CAPUS, Dr. Bertin|CAPUS, Dr. Bertin]]
* [[/CARDEW, Cyril Duncan|CARDEW, Cyril Duncan]]
* [[/CARIN, Rev. J. W.|CARIN, Rev. J. W.]]
* [[/CARLISLE, Tom Ffennell|CARLISLE, Tom Ffennell]]
* [[/CARMICHAEL, H. F.|CARMICHAEL, H. F.]]
* [[/CARNEGIE, Hon. Lancelot Douglas|CARNEGIE, Hon. Lancelot Douglas]]
* [[/CARRINGTON, Rev. John|CARRINGTON, Rev. John]]
* [[/CARTER, Arthur Cecil|CARTER, Arthur Cecil]]
* [[/CARTER, Langham-|CARTER, Langham-]]
* [[/CARTER, William Leonard|CARTER, William Leonard]]
* [[/CARTWRIGHT, Basil Osborn|CARTWRIGHT, Basil Osborn]]
* [[/CARVIL, Thomas G.|CARVIL, Thomas G.]]
* [[/CARY, Prof. Otis|CARY, Prof. Otis]]
* [[/CASE, James Francis|CASE, James Francis]]
* [[/CASSELS, Rt. Rev. William Wharton|CASSELS, Rt. Rev. William Wharton]]
* [[/CAULFEILD, Hon. Francis St. George|CAULFEILD, Hon. Francis St. George]]
* [[/CAVENDISH, Alexander|CAVENDISH, Alexander]]
* [[/CHABRIER, Eugene Charles|CHABRIER, Eugene Charles]]
* [[/CHAFFRAY, Jean Edouard Bourcier-Saint-|CHAFFRAY, Jean Edouard Bourcier-Saint-]]
* [[/CHALMERS, Arthur Morison|CHALMERS, Arthur Morison]]
* [[/CHAMBAUD, Emile Alexis|CHAMBAUD, Emile Alexis]]
* [[/CHAMBERLAIN, Basil Hall|CHAMBERLAIN, Basil Hall]]
* [[/CHAMPEAUX, G. de|CHAMPEAUX, G. de]]
* [[/CHAN TIEN-YU|CHAN TIEN-YU]]
* [[/CHANCELLOR, Captain Alexander Richard|CHANCELLOR, Captain Alexander Richard]]
* [[/CHANG CHEN-HSUN|CHANG CHEN-HSUN]]
* [[/CHANG CH'ENG-HSUN|CHANG CH'ENG-HSUN]]
* [[/CHANG CHIH-TUNG, Vicaroy|CHANG CHIH-TUNG, Vicaroy]]
* [[/CH'ANG-CH'UN, Lieut.-General|CH'ANG-CH'UN, Lieut.-General]]
* [[/CH'ANG-EN, Tartar General|CH'ANG-EN, Tartar General]]
* [[/CH'ANG-HENG|CH'ANG-HENG]]
* [[/CHANG HENG-CHIA|CHANG HENG-CHIA]]
* [[/CHANG HSIANG-T'AI, General|CHANG HSIANG-T'AI, General]]
* [[/CHANG HSING CHIH, General|CHANG HSING CHIH, General]]
* [[/CHANG HSUN, General|CHANG HSUN, General]]
* [[/CHANG JEN-CHUN|CHANG JEN-CHUN]]
* [[/CHANG JEN-FU|CHANG JEN-FU]]
* [[/CHANG KAO-YUAN, General|CHANG KAO-YUAN, General]]
* [[/CH'ANG-KENG, General|CH'ANG-KENG, General]]
* [[/CHANG LIEN-FEN|CHANG LIEN-FEN]]
* [[/CHANG PO-HSI|CHANG PO-HSI]]
* [[/CH'ANG-SHAN, Lieut.-General|CH'ANG-SHAN, Lieut.-General]]
* [[/CHANG SHAO-HUA|CHANG SHAO-HUA]]
* [[/CHANG SUNG-LIN, General|CHANG SUNG-LIN, General]]
* [[/CHANG T'ING-LIAO|CHANG T'ING-LIAO]]
* [[/CHANG TSENG-YANG|CHANG TSENG-YANG]]
* [[/CHANG TSUNG-PEN, General|CHANG TSUNG-PEN, General]]
* [[/CHANG YEN-MOU|CHANG YEN-MOU]]
* [[/CHANG YI|CHANG YI]]
* [[/CHANG YING-LIN|CHANG YING-LIN]]
* [[/CHANG YUNG CH ING, General|CHANG YUNG CH ING, General]]
* [[/CHAO ERH FENG, General|CHAO ERH FENG, General]]
* [[/CHAO ERH-HSUN, General|CHAO ERH-HSUN, General]]
* [[/CHAO KUO-HSIEN, General|CHAO KUO-HSIEN, General]]
* [[/CHAO WEI, General|CHAO WEI, General]]
* [[/CHAO WEI-HSI|CHAO WEI-HSI]]
* [[/CHAPMAN, Arthur|CHAPMAN, Arthur]]
* [[/CHAPMAN, William Thomas|CHAPMAN, William Thomas]]
* [[/CHAPPELL Rev. Benjamin|CHAPPELL Rev. Benjamin]]
* [[/CHARRIN, Jean Juilien Louis|CHARRIN, Jean Juilien Louis]]
* [[/CHATER, Sir Catchick Paul|CHATER, Sir Catchick Paul]]
* [[/CHATHAM, Hon. Wm.|CHATHAM, Hon. Wm.]]
* [[/CHENAGON, Colonel Georges N. J.|CHENAGON, Colonel Georges N. J.]]
* [[/CHEN CHAO-WEN|CHEN CHAO-WEN]]
* [[/CHEN CHING TZU|CHEN CHING TZU]]
* [[/CHZN HAI-PENG, Ganeral|CHZN HAI-PENG, Ganeral]]
* [[/CH'EN HSU, General|CH'EN HSU, General]]
* [[/CH EN K'UEI LIN|CH EN K'UEI LIN]]
* [[/CH'EN KUEI-LUNG|CH'EN KUEI-LUNG]]
* [[/CH'EN MING-K'AN|CH'EN MING-K'AN]]
* [[/CHENOWETH, R.|CHENOWETH, R.]]
* [[/CH'EN PI|CH'EN PI]]
* [[/CH'EN PANG-JUI|CH'EN PANG-JUI]]
* [[/CH'ENG CHANG|CH'ENG CHANG]]
* [[/CH'ENG-HSUN, General|CH'ENG-HSUN, General]]
* [[/CH'ENG WEN-PING, Admiral|CH'ENG WEN-PING, Admiral]]
* [[/CHENIEUX, Olivier Victor|CHENIEUX, Olivier Victor]]
* [[/CHEON, Jean Nicolas|CHEON, Jean Nicolas]]
* [[/CHESNE, Alphonse|CHESNE, Alphonse]]
* [[/CHEVALIER, Father Stanislas|CHEVALIER, Father Stanislas]]
* [[/CHEVALLIER, Harvey|CHEVALLIER, Harvey]]
* [[/CHEVALLIER, General M. R.|CHEVALLIER, General M. R.]]
* [[/CHI LU|CHI LU]]
* [[/CHI-SHENG, Lieut.-General|CHI-SHENG, Lieut.-General]]
* [[/CHIANG KUEI-T'I|CHIANG KUEI-T'I]]
* [[/CHIC HESTER, Major Arlington Augustus|CHIC HESTER, Major Arlington Augustus]]
* [[/CHIH-JUI, General|CHIH-JUI, General]]
* [[/CHIN SHOU-CHANG|CHIN SHOU-CHANG]]
* [[/CHINA, Emperor of|CHINA, Emperor of]]
* [[/CHINA, Empress Dowager of|CHINA, Empress Dowager of]]
* [[/CHINA (MID), Bishop of|CHINA (MID), Bishop of]]
* [[/CHINA (NORTH), Bishop of|CHINA (NORTH), Bishop of]]
* [[/CHINA (WESTERN), Bishop of|CHINA (WESTERN), Bishop of]]
* [[/CHINDA, Stemi|CHINDA, Stemi]]
* [[/CHING, Prince|CHING, Prince]]
* [[/CHING-HOU|CHING-HOU]]
* [[/CHING-HSING, General|CHING-HSING, General]]
* [[/CH'ING-FU|CH'ING-FU]]
* [[/CH'ING-JUI, Tartar General|CH'ING-JUI, Tartar General]]
* [[/CH'ING-SHU|CH'ING-SHU]]
* [[/CHIRA, Prince|CHIRA, Prince]]
* [[/CHITTY, Major Walter Willis|CHITTY, Major Walter Willis]]
* [[/CH'O-HA-PU, Tartar General|CH'O-HA-PU, Tartar General]]
* [[/CHOLMONDELEY, Rev. Lionel Berners|CHOLMONDELEY, Rev. Lionel Berners]]
* [[/CHOU FANG-MING, Admiral|CHOU FANG-MING, Admiral]]
* [[/CHOU FU|CHOU FU]]
* [[/CHOWFA ASADANG DAJARVOOT, Prince|CHOWFA ASADANG DAJARVOOT, Prince]]
* [[/CHOWFA MAHA VAJIRAVUDH, Prince|CHOWFA MAHA VAJIRAVUDH, Prince]]
* [[/CHRISTIANI, Th.|CHRISTIANI, Th.]]
* [[/CH'U HUING-CHI|CH'U HUING-CHI]]
* [[/CHU PAO-K'UEI|CHU PAO-K'UEI]]
* [[/CHU TSU-MOU|CHU TSU-MOU]]
* [[/CHULALONGKORN I.|CHULALONGKORN I.]]
* [[/CH'UN, Prince|CH'UN, Prince]]
* [[/CHUN-LIANG, General|CHUN-LIANG, General]]
* [[/CHUNG-HSUN, Lieut.-General|CHUNG-HSUN, Lieut.-General]]
* [[/CHUNG-LING, General|CHUNG-LING, General]]
* [[/CHUNG MUN-YEW|CHUNG MUN-YEW]]
* [[/CHUNG-SHAN|CHUNG-SHAN]]
* [[/CH'UNG-SHOU|CH'UNG-SHOU]]
* [[/CLARE, Ernest Edward Philip|CLARE, Ernest Edward Philip]]
* [[/CLARK, Duncan|CLARK, Duncan]]
* [[/CLARK, Hon. Dr. Francis W.|CLARK, Hon. Dr. Francis W.]]
* [[/CLARK, John D.|CLARK, John D.]]
* [[/CLARKE, Brodie A.|CLARKE, Brodie A.]]
* [[/CLARKE, Dr. John Tertius|CLARKE, Dr. John Tertius]]
* [[/CLARKE, William Edward|CLARKE, William Edward]]
* [[/CLATON L. H.|CLATON L. H.]]
* [[/CLAYTON, Reginald John Byard|CLAYTON, Reginald John Byard]]
* [[/CLAYTON, Thomas Watts|CLAYTON, Thomas Watts]]
* [[/CLEAVER, W. E.|CLEAVER, W. E.]]
* [[/CLEMENT, Ernest Wilson|CLEMENT, Ernest Wilson]]
* [[/CLEMENTI,Cecil|CLEMENTI,Cecil]]
* [[/CLENNELL, Waltar James|CLENNELL, Waltar James]]
* [[/CLINDENING, Dr. Frederick Talbot Driffield|CLINDENING, Dr. Frederick Talbot Driffield]]
* [[/COATES, Rev. Harper Havelock|COATES, Rev. Harper Havelock]]
* [[/COCHRANE, Charles Walter Hamilton|COCHRANE, Charles Walter Hamilton]]
* [[/COCK, Edward Arthur Langslow|COCK, Edward Arthur Langslow]]
* [[/COCKBURN, Henry|COCKBURN, Henry]]
* [[/CODRINGTON, Stewart|CODRINGTON, Stewart]]
* [[/COGHIAN, Henry Lake|COGHIAN, Henry Lake]]
* [[/COGNACQ, Dr. Maurice|COGNACQ, Dr. Maurice]]
* [[/COLBORNE, Dr. W. W.|COLBORNE, Dr. W. W.]]
* [[/COLLARD, Paul Marie Alexandre|COLLARD, Paul Marie Alexandre]]
* [[/COLLINGE, Henry Bernard|COLLINGE, Henry Bernard]]
* [[/COLLINS, Robert Moore|COLLINS, Robert Moore]]
* [[/COLLYER, George Falconar|COLLYER, George Falconar]]
* [[/COLMAN, Eugene Ernest|COLMAN, Eugene Ernest]]
* [[/COMTE, Colonel Gaspard M. L. A.|COMTE, Colonel Gaspard M. L. A.]]
* [[/Conder, Prof. Josiah/]]
* [[/CONLAY, William Lance|CONLAY, William Lance]]
* [[/CONNOLLY, Dr. Richard Michael|CONNOLLY, Dr. Richard Michael]]
* [[/COOK, Edward Arthur|COOK, Edward Arthur]]
* [[/COOK, Rev. John Angus Bethune|COOK, Rev. John Angus Bethune]]
* [[/COOPER, Rev. Albert Seth|COOPER, Rev. Albert Seth]]
* [[/COOPER, Herbart James|COOPER, Herbart James]]
* [[/COPLEY, George|COPLEY, George]]
* [[/COREA, Bishop of|COREA, Bishop of]]
* [[/CORMAC, Charles Richard|CORMAC, Charles Richard]]
* [[/CORNABY, Rev. William Arthur|CORNABY, Rev. William Arthur]]
* [[/COSGRAVE, William Nassau|COSGRAVE, William Nassau]]
* [[/COULSON, John Bliss|COULSON, John Bliss]]
* [[/COURTEAUD, Leonard G. H.|COURTEAUD, Leonard G. H.]]
* [[/COUSLAND, Dr. Philip Brunelleschi|COUSLAND, Dr. Philip Brunelleschi]]
* [[/COUVREUR, Rev. Nicholas Justin|COUVREUR, Rev. Nicholas Justin]]
* [[/COWEN, John|COWEN, John]]
* [[/COWEN, William Charles Barker|COWEN, William Charles Barker]]
* [[/COX, Alexander George|COX, Alexander George]]
* [[/COX, E. A. W.|COX, E. A. W.]]
* [[/COX, Francis Bede|COX, Francis Bede]]
* [[/COX, Dr. George Arthur|COX, Dr. George Arthur]]
* [[/COX, Sir William Henry Lionel|COX, Sir William Henry Lionel]]
* [[/CRAIG, Robert Henry Arthur|CRAIG, Robert Henry Arthur]]
* [[/CRAIG, William|CRAIG, William]]
* [[/CRAWFORD, Robert Alexander|CRAWFORD, Robert Alexander]]
* [[/CRAYSSAC, Pierre Aristide|CRAYSSAC, Pierre Aristide]]
* [[/CRESTIEN, Gilles Francois Auguste Jacques|CRESTIEN, Gilles Francois Auguste Jacques]]
* [[/CRICHTON, Reginald|CRICHTON, Reginald]]
* [[/CROOK, Alfred H.|CROOK, Alfred H.]]
* [[/CROUCHER, Dr. F. B.|CROUCHER, Dr. F. B.]]
* [[/CROWE, Edward Thomas Frederick|CROWE, Edward Thomas Frederick]]
* [[/CRUICKSHANK, William A. C.|CRUICKSHANK, William A. C.]]
* [[/CUDENET, Louis Francois|CUDENET, Louis Francois]]
* [[/CUNNINGHAM, Alfred|CUNNINGHAM, Alfred]]
* [[/CUNNINGHAM, W. D.|CUNNINGHAM, W. D.]]
* [[/CUNYNGHAME, Sir Percy|CUNYNGHAME, Sir Percy]]
* [[/CURTIS, Frederick Joseph|CURTIS, Frederick Joseph]]
* [[/CUSCADEN, George Percy|CUSCADEN, George Percy]]
* [[/CUSCADEN, Capt. William Andrew|CUSCADEN, Capt. William Andrew]]
* [[/CUTHBERT, Rev. William James|CUTHBERT, Rev. William James]]
* [[/DAIN, Colonel Victor C. H.|DAIN, Colonel Victor C. H.]]
* [[/DALLAS, Hon. Francis Henry|DALLAS, Hon. Francis Henry]]
* [[/DALTON, Captain Hubert Grant|DALTON, Captain Hubert Grant]]
* [[/DALY, Maurice Dominic|DALY, Maurice Dominic]]
* [[/DAMADE, Auguste Charles Francois|DAMADE, Auguste Charles Francois]]
* [[/D'AMBRO-ADAMOCZ, B.|D'AMBRO-ADAMOCZ, B.]]
* [[/DANBY, William|DANBY, William]]
* [[/DANE, Dr. Robert|DANE, Dr. Robert]]
* [[/D'ANETHAN, Baroness Albert, nee Haggard|D'ANETHAN, Baroness Albert, nee Haggard]]
* [[/D'ANETHAN, Baron Albert|D'ANETHAN, Baron Albert]]
* [[/DANIEL, Walter John|DANIEL, Walter John]]
* [[/DANIELS, Dr. Charles Wilberforce|DANIELS, Dr. Charles Wilberforce]]
* [[/D'ARAUJO, Patrick|D'ARAUJO, Patrick]]
* [[/DARKE, Robert William Bowring|DARKE, Robert William Bowring]]
* [[/DARWALL, Lieut.-Commander William H.|DARWALL, Lieut.-Commander William H.]]
* [[/DAUBENY, Charles W.|DAUBENY, Charles W.]]
* [[/DAURAND-FORGUES|DAURAND-FORGUES]]
* [[/DAVIES, Reginald Downing|DAVIES, Reginald Downing]]
* [[/DAVID, Paul August Felix|DAVID, Paul August Felix]]
* [[/DAVIDSON, Ewen Charles|DAVIDSON, Ewen Charles]]
* [[/DAVIS, Edward Clarence|DAVIS, Edward Clarence]]
* [[/DAVIS, William Herbert Trenchard|DAVIS, William Herbert Trenchard]]
* [[/DAY, George Harold|DAY, George Harold]]
* [[/DAY, H. R. A.|DAY, H. R. A.]]
* [[/DEACON, Victor Hobart|DEACON, Victor Hobart]]
* [[/DEALY, Thomas Kirkman|DEALY, Thomas Kirkman]]
* [[/DEANS, Rev. William|DEANS, Rev. William]]
* [[/DEARING, Rev. John Lincoln|DEARING, Rev. John Lincoln]]
* [[/DE BECKER, Joseph Ernest|DE BECKER, Joseph Ernest]]
* [[/DE BERNARD, Barthelemy Henri|DE BERNARD, Barthelemy Henri]]
* [[/DEBNEY, Stanley Turner|DEBNEY, Stanley Turner]]
* [[/DEBON, Lieut-Colonel Alfred A.|DEBON, Lieut-Colonel Alfred A.]]
* [[/DE BONDY-RIARIO, Count Raphael de Taillepied|DE BONDY-RIARIO, Count Raphael de Taillepied]]
* [[/DE BOYER DE SAINTE SUZANNE, Maurice M. M. J. F. R.|DE BOYER DE SAINTE SUZANNE, Maurice M. M. J. F. R.]]
* [[/DE CARCER, M.|DE CARCER, M.]]
* [[/DE COLOMB, Emmanuel Joseph Albert|DE COLOMB, Emmanuel Joseph Albert]]
* [[/DE FREITAS, J. Batalha|DE FREITAS, J. Batalha]]
* [[/DE GAIFFIER, M. E.|DE GAIFFIER, M. E.]]
* [[/DEGORCE, Dr. Jean Charles Armand|DEGORCE, Dr. Jean Charles Armand]]
* [[/DE GOY, Pierre Marie|DE GOY, Pierre Marie]]
* [[/DE GRAY, Harry|DE GRAY, Harry]]
* [[/DE HAMEL, Major Hargrave Barry|DE HAMEL, Major Hargrave Barry]]
* [[/DE HAVILLAND|DE HAVILLAND]]
* [[/DE HORSEY, Captain Spencer V. Y.|DE HORSEY, Captain Spencer V. Y.]]
* [[/DE LALANDE-CALAN, Oliver Charles Arthur|DE LALANDE-CALAN, Oliver Charles Arthur]]
* [[/DE MELLO, Aloysius|DE MELLO, Aloysius]]
* [[/DE MIRIBEL, Marie Joseph|DE MIRIBEL, Marie Joseph]]
* [[/DEMPSTER, Capt. Herbert Thomas|DEMPSTER, Capt. Herbert Thomas]]
* [[/DENHAM, John Edward|DENHAM, John Edward]]
* [[/DENING, Walter|DENING, Walter]]
* [[/DENNYS, Frederick Onslow Brooke|DENNYS, Frederick Onslow Brooke]]
* [[/DENNYS, Henry Lardner|DENNYS, Henry Lardner]]
* [[/DERRY, Robert|DERRY, Robert]]
* [[/DESBOROUGH, Charles Ernest Maitland|DESBOROUGH, Charles Ernest Maitland]]
* [[/DESHON, Hon. H. F.|DESHON, Hon. H. F.]]
* [[/DESORMEAUX, Alphonse Pierre|DESORMEAUX, Alphonse Pierre]]
* [[/DESVAUX, Leopold|DESVAUX, Leopold]]
* [[/DEVAWONGSE, Prince|DEVAWONGSE, Prince]]
* [[/DEW, Arthur Tomkyns|DEW, Arthur Tomkyns]]
* [[/DEW, Edward Costa|DEW, Edward Costa]]
* [[/DEWAR, Lieut. Arthur Robert Johnstone|DEWAR, Lieut. Arthur Robert Johnstone]]
* [[/DICKSON, Eric Ayton|DICKSON, Eric Ayton]]
* [[/DICKSON, Hon. Charles Wedderburn|DICKSON, Hon. Charles Wedderburn]]
* [[/DIGUET, Lieut-Colonel Edouard J. J.|DIGUET, Lieut-Colonel Edouard J. J.]]
* [[/DINSMORE, William Holmes|DINSMORE, William Holmes]]
* [[/DISHAM, Arthur John|DISHAM, Arthur John]]
* [[/DITTE, Colonel Albeit|DITTE, Colonel Albeit]]
* [[/DIXON, Arthur Wesley|DIXON, Arthur Wesley]]
* [[/DOBERCK, William|DOBERCK, William]]
* [[/DOCEUL, Fernand Louis Samuel|DOCEUL, Fernand Louis Samuel]]
* [[/&quot;DOLLY&quot;|&quot;DOLLY&quot;]]
* [[/DOMERGUE, Eugene|DOMERGUE, Eugene]]
* [[/DONALD, William Henry|DONALD, William Henry]]
* [[/DONALDSON, Charles Egerton|DONALDSON, Charles Egerton]]
* [[/DONOVAN, John Patrick|DONOVAN, John Patrick]]
* [[/D'OLIVER, Leonard|D'OLIVER, Leonard]]
* [[/DOOLY, John Schauffler|DOOLY, John Schauffler]]
* [[/DOSSOGNE. Leon|DOSSOGNE. Leon]]
* [[/DOUGLAS, Francis William|DOUGLAS, Francis William]]
* [[/DOUGLAS, James|DOUGLAS, James]]
* [[/DOUGLAS, John Charles Edward|DOUGLAS, John Charles Edward]]
* [[/DOUGLAS, R. Stair|DOUGLAS, R. Stair]]
* [[/DOUGLAS, William Willes|DOUGLAS, William Willes]]
* [[/DOWDALL, William Macdonnell Mitchell|DOWDALL, William Macdonnell Mitchell]]
* [[/DOWDEN, Dr. Richard|DOWDEN, Dr. Richard]]
* [[/DOWNING, T. C.|DOWNING, T. C.]]
* [[/DREWELL, Albert Augustus Samuel|DREWELL, Albert Augustus Samuel]]
* [[/DROSEMEIER, William|DROSEMEIER, William]]
* [[/DROUGHET, Frederic|DROUGHET, Frederic]]
* [[/DRUMMOND, W. V.|DRUMMOND, W. V.]]
* [[/DUBAIL, G.|DUBAIL, G.]]
* [[/DUBOYS DE LARAMIERE, Jean Armand|DUBOYS DE LARAMIERE, Jean Armand]]
* [[/DUBREUIL, Leon|DUBREUIL, Leon]]
* [[/DUDENEY, Leonard|DUDENEY, Leonard]]
* [[/DUFRENIL, Paul Edgard|DUFRENIL, Paul Edgard]]
* [[/DUGMORE, Lieut.-Commander Eric V. F. R.|DUGMORE, Lieut.-Commander Eric V. F. R.]]
* [[/DUKES, Oscar A.|DUKES, Oscar A.]]
* [[/DUNCAN, Chesney|DUNCAN, Chesney]]
* [[/DUNCAN, Prof. Moir|DUNCAN, Prof. Moir]]
* [[/DUNLOP, Rev. John Gaskin|DUNLOP, Rev. John Gaskin]]
* [[/DUNN, Stephen Troyte|DUNN, Stephen Troyte]]
* [[/DURANTON, Jean Augusts|DURANTON, Jean Augusts]]
* [[/DURAZZO, Etienne|DURAZZO, Etienne]]
* [[/DURRWELL, Louis Georges|DURRWELL, Louis Georges]]
* [[/DUVAL, Capt. R.|DUVAL, Capt. R.]]
* [[/DYKES, Frecheville Joseph Ballantine|DYKES, Frecheville Joseph Ballantine]]
* [[/DYSON, Cecil Venn|DYSON, Cecil Venn]]
* [[/EAKIN, Rev. J. A.|EAKIN, Rev. J. A.]]
* [[/EASTWICK, Robert William Egerton|EASTWICK, Robert William Egerton]]
* [[/EBDEN. Leonard Powney|EBDEN. Leonard Powney]]
* [[/EBARA, Soroku|EBARA, Soroku]]
* [[/EBINA, Danjo|EBINA, Danjo]]
* [[/ECKHARDT, Henry Charles|ECKHARDT, Henry Charles]]
* [[/EDDISON, E.|EDDISON, E.]]
* [[/EDMUNDS, Charles Keyser|EDMUNDS, Charles Keyser]]
* [[/EDWARDS, F. W.|EDWARDS, F. W.]]
* [[/ELCUM. John Bowen|ELCUM. John Bowen]]
* [[/ELDRIDGE, G. T. B. J.|ELDRIDGE, G. T. B. J.]]
* [[/ELLERTON, Henry Brooke|ELLERTON, Henry Brooke]]
* [[/ELLES, Bertram Waltar|ELLES, Bertram Waltar]]
* [[/ELLIS, Emery Ward|ELLIS, Emery Ward]]
* [[/ELLIS, Frank Thomas|ELLIS, Frank Thomas]]
* [[/ELLIS, Dr. William Gilmore|ELLIS, Dr. William Gilmore]]
* [[/EN-HSIANG, Lieut.-General|EN-HSIANG, Lieut.-General]]
* [[/EN-MING|EN-MING]]
* [[/ENOMOTO, Viscount Buyo|ENOMOTO, Viscount Buyo]]
* [[/EN-SHOU|EN-SHOU]]
* [[/EN-SHUN|EN-SHUN]]
* [[/ENYU, Lieut. - General|ENYU, Lieut. - General]]
* [[/EPHRAUMS, Wilfred Clement|EPHRAUMS, Wilfred Clement]]
* [[/ERDMAN, Rev. John Pinney|ERDMAN, Rev. John Pinney]]
* [[/ESCOUBERT, Jean C. A. A.|ESCOUBERT, Jean C. A. A.]]
* [[/EVANS, Jun, Dr. Philip S.|EVANS, Jun, Dr. Philip S.]]
* [[/EVANS, William|EVANS, William]]
* [[/EVERETT, Major E. Henry Joseph|EVERETT, Major E. Henry Joseph]]
* [[/EVINGTON, Right Rev. Henry|EVINGTON, Right Rev. Henry]]
* [[/FALSHAW, Percy Scott|FALSHAW, Percy Scott]]
* [[/FAN KUANG-HENG|FAN KUANG-HENG]]
* [[/FAN TSENG -HSIANG|FAN TSENG -HSIANG]]
* [[/FANG KUNG-CHAO|FANG KUNG-CHAO]]
* [[/FAREL. Jules|FAREL. Jules]]
* [[/FARNHAM, Dr. John Marshall Willoughby|FARNHAM, Dr. John Marshall Willoughby]]
* [[/FARRER, Roland J.|FARRER, Roland J.]]
* [[/FEARN, Dr. John B.|FEARN, Dr. John B.]]
* [[/FENG CH'E, Lieut.-General|FENG CH'E, Lieut.-General]]
* [[/FENG HSU|FENG HSU]]
* [[/FENG-SHENG-A, General|FENG-SHENG-A, General]]
* [[/FENG-SHEN-T'AI|FENG-SHEN-T'AI]]
* [[/FERGUSON, Rev. Duncan|FERGUSON, Rev. Duncan]]
* [[/FERGUSON, John C.|FERGUSON, John C.]]
* [[/FERRA, Claude Jean|FERRA, Claude Jean]]
* [[/FIELD, Rev. Frank William|FIELD, Rev. Frank William]]
* [[/FIGG, Frederick George|FIGG, Frederick George]]
* [[/FINCHAM, Charles|FINCHAM, Charles]]
* [[/FINK, C.|FINK, C.]]
* [[/FINLAYSON, Dr. George Alexander|FINLAYSON, Dr. George Alexander]]
* [[/FINNIE, William|FINNIE, William]]
* [[/FIELD, Rev. Walter Paul Gray|FIELD, Rev. Walter Paul Gray]]
* [[/FIRMSTONE, H. W.|FIRMSTONE, H. W.]]
* [[/FIRTH, Alfred Richard|FIRTH, Alfred Richard]]
* [[/FISHER, Henry George Corrall|FISHER, Henry George Corrall]]
* [[/FISHER, William Woodhouse|FISHER, William Woodhouse]]
* [[/FITCH, Dr. Mary Elliot|FITCH, Dr. Mary Elliot]]
* [[/FITCH, Rev. Robert Ferris|FITCH, Rev. Robert Ferris]]
* [[/FITTON, Lieut-Col. Hugh Gregory|FITTON, Lieut-Col. Hugh Gregory]]
* [[/FLAHERTY, Alfred John|FLAHERTY, Alfred John]]
* [[/FLEMING, Thomas Clivers|FLEMING, Thomas Clivers]]
* [[/FLETCHER, Arthur George Murchison|FLETCHER, Arthur George Murchison]]
* [[/FLETCHER, Dr. William|FLETCHER, Dr. William]]
* [[/FOLEY, Edward Lawrence|FOLEY, Edward Lawrence]]
* [[/FONSECA, Aloysius Hermenegild do Rozario|FONSECA, Aloysius Hermenegild do Rozario]]
* [[/FORBES, Andrew|FORBES, Andrew]]
* [[/FORD Dr. Donald McNeil|FORD Dr. Donald McNeil]]
* [[/FORD, Dr. John Colin Campbell|FORD, Dr. John Colin Campbell]]
* [[/FORGUES, Marie Adelbert Eugene Daurand-|FORGUES, Marie Adelbert Eugene Daurand-]]
* [[/FORSTER, Ralph George Elliott|FORSTER, Ralph George Elliott]]
* [[/FORSYTE, Charles|FORSYTE, Charles]]
* [[/FOSS, Right Rev. Dr. Hugh James|FOSS, Right Rev. Dr. Hugh James]]
* [[/FOSTON, Dr. Edmund Christopher|FOSTON, Dr. Edmund Christopher]]
* [[/FOUCHER, Alfred|FOUCHER, Alfred]]
* [[/FOURES, Auguste Julien|FOURES, Auguste Julien]]
* [[/FOCRESTIER, Norbett Maurice|FOCRESTIER, Norbett Maurice]]
* [[/FOWLIE, Dr. Peter|FOWLIE, Dr. Peter]]
* [[/FOX, Guilherme Henry|FOX, Guilherme Henry]]
* [[/FOX, Harry Halton|FOX, Harry Halton]]
* [[/FOX, Dr. Stephen Charles Gundry|FOX, Dr. Stephen Charles Gundry]]
* [[/FOX, Walter|FOX, Walter]]
* [[/FKAMPTON, G. Russell|FKAMPTON, G. Russell]]
* [[/FRANCE, Rev. John Hoole|FRANCE, Rev. John Hoole]]
* [[/FRANCO, Dr. LUIZ Lourenco|FRANCO, Dr. LUIZ Lourenco]]
* [[/FRANKLIN, Alfred Edward Cyril|FRANKLIN, Alfred Edward Cyril]]
* [[/FRASER, Evarard Duncan Home|FRASER, Evarard Duncan Home]]
* [[/FRAZAR, S. W.|FRAZAR, S. W.]]
* [[/FREER, Dr. Gerald Dudley|FREER, Dr. Gerald Dudley]]
* [[/FROC, Aloysius|FROC, Aloysius]]
* [[/FROST, Meadows|FROST, Meadows]]
* [[/FRY, R. S.|FRY, R. S.]]
* [[/FRY, Dr. William Herbert|FRY, Dr. William Herbert]]
* [[/FRYER, George William|FRYER, George William]]
* [[/FU-CHEN, Lieut-General|FU-CHEN, Lieut-General]]
* [[/FU-CH'I, Lieut-General|FU-CH'I, Lieut-General]]
* [[/FUCHS, A.|FUCHS, A.]]
* [[/FUCHS, Carl|FUCHS, Carl]]
* [[/FUJINAMI, Viscount|FUJINAMI, Viscount]]
* [[/FUJIOKA, Dr. Ichisuke|FUJIOKA, Dr. Ichisuke]]
* [[/FUJISAWA, Dr. Rikitaro|FUJISAWA, Dr. Rikitaro]]
* [[/FUJITA, Denzaburo|FUJITA, Denzaburo]]
* [[/FUJITA, Shiro|FUJITA, Shiro]]
* [[/FUKIEN, Bishop of|FUKIEN, Bishop of]]
* [[/FUKUHA, Viscount|FUKUHA, Viscount]]
* [[/FUKUOKA, Viscount|FUKUOKA, Viscount]]
* [[/FUKUSHIMA, Major - General Sir Yasunasa|FUKUSHIMA, Major - General Sir Yasunasa]]
* [[/FUKUYAWA, Sutejiro|FUKUYAWA, Sutejiro]]
* [[/FULFORD, Harry English|FULFORD, Harry English]]
* [[/FULKERSON, Dr. E. R.|FULKERSON, Dr. E. R.]]
* [[/FULTON, Rev. George W.|FULTON, Rev. George W.]]
* [[/FUNAKOSHI, Baron Mamoru|FUNAKOSHI, Baron Mamoru]]
* [[/FUNG WA CHUN|FUNG WA CHUN]]
* [[/FURUICHI, Dr. Koi|FURUICHI, Dr. Koi]]
* [[/FUSHIMI, Prince|FUSHIMI, Prince]]
* [[/FYSON, Rt. Rev. Philip Kemball|FYSON, Rt. Rev. Philip Kemball]]
* [[/GA, Reishi|GA, Reishi]]
* [[/GAD, Svend Gamel|GAD, Svend Gamel]]
* [[/GALE, Charles Hsnry|GALE, Charles Hsnry]]
* [[/GALEMBERT, P. M. G. de|GALEMBERT, P. M. G. de]]
* [[/GALLOWAY, Dr. David James|GALLOWAY, Dr. David James]]
* [[/GANDE, James William|GANDE, James William]]
* [[/GARDNER, Rev. G. Milton|GARDNER, Rev. G. Milton]]
* [[/GARNIER, Albert Edmond Joseph Marius|GARNIER, Albert Edmond Joseph Marius]]
* [[/GARRARD, C. G.|GARRARD, C. G.]]
* [[/GARRETT, Herbert Leonard Offley|GARRETT, Herbert Leonard Offley]]
* [[/GASKELL, William Henry|GASKELL, William Henry]]
* [[/GATRELL, Dr. Thomas J. N.|GATRELL, Dr. Thomas J. N.]]
* [[/GAUNTLETT, Prof. George Edward L.|GAUNTLETT, Prof. George Edward L.]]
* [[/GAUTRET, Fernand|GAUTRET, Fernand]]
* [[/GEDYE, Rev. Ernest Francis|GEDYE, Rev. Ernest Francis]]
* [[/GEE, Nathaniel Gist|GEE, Nathaniel Gist]]
* [[/GERRARD, Dr. Percy Nettarvill|GERRARD, Dr. Percy Nettarvill]]
* [[/GIBB, Jun, Prof. John McGregor|GIBB, Jun, Prof. John McGregor]]
* [[/GIBBS, Lawrence|GIBBS, Lawrence]]
* [[/GIBSON, William S.|GIBSON, William S.]]
* [[/GIBSON,. Rev. John Campbell|GIBSON,. Rev. John Campbell]]
* [[/GIFFENING, Julian T. L.|GIFFENING, Julian T. L.]]
* [[/GILES, Bertram|GILES, Bertram]]
* [[/GILMAN, Edward Wilmot Francis|GILMAN, Edward Wilmot Francis]]
* [[/GITTINS, H.|GITTINS, H.]]
* [[/GLASS, Duncan|GLASS, Duncan]]
* [[/GLATZER, Konrad|GLATZER, Konrad]]
* [[/GLENDINNING, Frederick|GLENDINNING, Frederick]]
* [[/GLENNIE, Commander Robert W.|GLENNIE, Commander Robert W.]]
* [[/GLEYSTEEN, Rev. William H.|GLEYSTEEN, Rev. William H.]]
* [[/GLOVER, James Sands|GLOVER, James Sands]]
* [[/GO, Baron Junzo|GO, Baron Junzo]]
* [[/GODDARD, Frederick Day|GODDARD, Frederick Day]]
* [[/GOETZ, E.|GOETZ, E.]]
* [[/GOFFE, Herbert|GOFFE, Herbert]]
* [[/GOLDRING, Philip Wallace|GOLDRING, Philip Wallace]]
* [[/GOMPERTZ, Hanry Hessy Johnston|GOMPERTZ, Hanry Hessy Johnston]]
* [[/GOODRICH, Dr. Chauncey|GOODRICH, Dr. Chauncey]]
* [[/GORBOLD, Rev. Raymond P.|GORBOLD, Rev. Raymond P.]]
* [[/GORDON, Alexander Grant|GORDON, Alexander Grant]]
* [[/GORDON, Edward Lillingston Steuart|GORDON, Edward Lillingston Steuart]]
* [[/GORE-BOOTH|GORE-BOOTH]]
* [[/GORE, Frederick John|GORE, Frederick John]]
* [[/GOTO, Dr. Simpei|GOTO, Dr. Simpei]]
* [[/GOTTLIEB, F. H. Valentine|GOTTLIEB, F. H. Valentine]]
* [[/GOUTTENEGRE, Colonel Adrien|GOUTTENEGRE, Colonel Adrien]]
* [[/GRACE, Charles Hanry|GRACE, Charles Hanry]]
* [[/GRACEY, Dr. Samuel L.|GRACEY, Dr. Samuel L.]]
* [[/GRACEY, Wilbur Tirrell|GRACEY, Wilbur Tirrell]]
* [[/GRAHAM, Alfred McDowell|GRAHAM, Alfred McDowell]]
* [[/GRAHAM, Lawrence Graham Cloets|GRAHAM, Lawrence Graham Cloets]]
* [[/GRAHAM, Walter Douglas|GRAHAM, Walter Douglas]]
* [[/GRANDE, Jules Camille Amie|GRANDE, Jules Camille Amie]]
* [[/GRANT-DALTON|GRANT-DALTON]]
* [[/GRANT, Dr. J. S.|GRANT, Dr. J. S.]]
* [[/GRAVES, Dr. R. H.|GRAVES, Dr. R. H.]]
* [[/GRAY, Norman Tempest|GRAY, Norman Tempest]]
* [[/GRAY, Rav. William Royston|GRAY, Rav. William Royston]]
* [[/GREEN, Clarles Francis J.|GREEN, Clarles Francis J.]]
* [[/GREENE, Rev. Danel Crosby|GREENE, Rev. Danel Crosby]]
* [[/GREENE, Dr. G. W.|GREENE, Dr. G. W.]]
* [[/GREGORY, Lieut. -Commander Arthur K.|GREGORY, Lieut. -Commander Arthur K.]]
* [[/GREGORY, Stephen M.|GREGORY, Stephen M.]]
* [[/GRESSON, William J.|GRESSON, William J.]]
* [[/GREY, Robert Campbell|GREY, Robert Campbell]]
* [[/GRIFFIN, Albert Edwin|GRIFFIN, Albert Edwin]]
* [[/GRIFFITH, Tom Edward|GRIFFITH, Tom Edward]]
* [[/GRIFFITHS, Ernest Alfred|GRIFFITHS, Ernest Alfred]]
* [[/GRIGGS, Dr. James F.|GRIGGS, Dr. James F.]]
* [[/GRIST, Edward James|GRIST, Edward James]]
* [[/GROLEAU, Elie Jean Henri|GROLEAU, Elie Jean Henri]]
* [[/GROSSIN, General Paul L. A|GROSSIN, General Paul L. A]]
* [[/GROVE, William Edward Ure|GROVE, William Edward Ure]]
* [[/GROVES, Thomas|GROVES, Thomas]]
* [[/GUBBINS, John Harington|GUBBINS, John Harington]]
* [[/GUERITZ, Edward Peregrine|GUERITZ, Edward Peregrine]]
* [[/GUILLEMOTO, Charles Marie|GUILLEMOTO, Charles Marie]]
* [[/GUIS, Francois Louis Esprit|GUIS, Francois Louis Esprit]]
* [[/GUY, Harvey Hugo|GUY, Harvey Hugo]]
* [[/GUYONNET, Lieut.-Cclonel Pierre G. P.|GUYONNET, Lieut.-Cclonel Pierre G. P.]]
* [[/HACHISUKA, Marquis|HACHISUKA, Marquis]]
* [[/HAGER, Rev. Charles Robert|HAGER, Rev. Charles Robert]]
* [[/HAHN, Philippe|HAHN, Philippe]]
* [[/HAIFENG|HAIFENG]]
* [[/HAINES, Rev. Frank William|HAINES, Rev. Frank William]]
* [[/HALE, Abraham|HALE, Abraham]]
* [[/HALE, Bertram Augustas|HALE, Bertram Augustas]]
* [[/HALL, Gilbert Amos|HALL, Gilbert Amos]]
* [[/HALL, John Carey|HALL, John Carey]]
* [[/HALLIFAX, Edwin Richard|HALLIFAX, Edwin Richard]]
* [[/HALLIFAX, F. J.|HALLIFAX, F. J.]]
* [[/HAMADA, Dr. Gentatsu|HAMADA, Dr. Gentatsu]]
* [[/HAMAO, Arata|HAMAO, Arata]]
* [[/HAMILTON, William Beeson|HAMILTON, William Beeson]]
* [[/HAMPDEN, Ernest Miles Hobart|HAMPDEN, Ernest Miles Hobart]]
* [[/HANABUSA, Baron|HANABUSA, Baron]]
* [[/HANCOCK, Sidney|HANCOCK, Sidney]]
* [[/Hanitsch, Karl Richard|HANITSCH, Karl Richard]]
* [[/HANSEN, Dr. Carl C.|HANSEN, Dr. Carl C.]]
* [[/HANSON, Charles Rastrich|HANSON, Charles Rastrich]]
* [[/HARA, Kei|HARA, Kei]]
* [[/HARA, Rokuro|HARA, Rokuro]]
* [[/HARA, Ryota|HARA, Ryota]]
* [[/HARA, Yoshimichi|HARA, Yoshimichi]]
* [[/HARBORD, Commander Richard M.|HARBORD, Commander Richard M.]]
* [[/HARDING, John Reginald|HARDING, John Reginald]]
* [[/HARE, Prof. Alexander Joseph|HARE, Prof. Alexander Joseph]]
* [[/HARGREAVES, William|HARGREAVES, William]]
* [[/HARKER, Bernard Brotherton|HARKER, Bernard Brotherton]]
* [[/HARMAND, Jules Francois|HARMAND, Jules Francois]]
* [[/HARPER, Adolphus Alexander Francis|HARPER, Adolphus Alexander Francis]]
* [[/HARPER, Joseph Peasccd|HARPER, Joseph Peasccd]]
* [[/HARRINGTON, Thomas Joseph|HARRINGTON, Thomas Joseph]]
* [[/HARRIS, Charles Butler|HARRIS, Charles Butler]]
* [[/HARRIS, Right Rev. Dr. Merriman Cuthbart|HARRIS, Right Rev. Dr. Merriman Cuthbart]]
* [[/HARRIS, Jun.. Rev. William|HARRIS, Jun.. Rev. William]]
* [[/HARRISON, C. W.|HARRISON, C. W.]]
* [[/HARRISON, Dr. H. Meredith|HARRISON, Dr. H. Meredith]]
* [[/HARSTON, Dr. George Montagu|HARSTON, Dr. George Montagu]]
* [[/HARSTON, John Scott|HARSTON, John Scott]]
* [[/HART, Dr. Edgerton H.|HART, Dr. Edgerton H.]]
* [[/HART, Sir Robert|HART, Sir Robert]]
* [[/HARTIGAN, Thomas Leonard|HARTIGAN, Thomas Leonard]]
* [[/HARTWELL, Rev. George E.|HARTWELL, Rev. George E.]]
* [[/HARTWELL, Rev. J. Boardman|HARTWELL, Rev. J. Boardman]]
* [[/HASEBA, Sumitaka|HASEBA, Sumitaka]]
* [[/HASEGAWA, Yoshinosuke|HASEGAWA, Yoshinosuke]]
* [[/HASHIMOTO, Gaho|HASHIMOTO, Gaho]]
* [[/HASHIMOTO, Baron Tsunatsune|HASHIMOTO, Baron Tsunatsune]]
* [[/HASSAN, Alexander Richard Roby|HASSAN, Alexander Richard Roby]]
* [[/HASTINGS, George Andrew|HASTINGS, George Andrew]]
* [[/HASTINGS, John|HASTINGS, John]]
* [[/HATANO, Yoshinao|HATANO, Yoshinao]]
* [[/HATCHELL, Howard Montagu|HATCHELL, Howard Montagu]]
* [[/HATOYAMA, Dr. Kazuo|HATOYAMA, Dr. Kazuo]]
* [[/HATTON, Major General Villiers|HATTON, Major General Villiers]]
* [[/HAUPT, A.|HAUPT, A.]]
* [[/HAUSER Felix Paul|HAUSER Felix Paul]]
* [[/HAUSSER, Pierre Frederick|HAUSSER, Pierre Frederick]]
* [[/HAVILLAND, Walter Agustus de|HAVILLAND, Walter Agustus de]]
* [[/HAWKINS, Villiers Alweyn Caesar|HAWKINS, Villiers Alweyn Caesar]]
* [[/HAWLEY, Rev. Edwin C.|HAWLEY, Rev. Edwin C.]]
* [[/HAWORTH, Rev. B. C.|HAWORTH, Rev. B. C.]]
* [[/HAWTREY, William Robert John|HAWTREY, William Robert John]]
* [[/HAYAKAWA, Senkichiro|HAYAKAWA, Senkichiro]]
* [[/HAYAKAWA, Tetsuya|HAYAKAWA, Tetsuya]]
* [[/HAYASHI, Gonsuke|HAYASHI, Gonsuke]]
* [[/HAYASHI, Viscount Tadasu|HAYASHI, Viscount Tadasu]]
* [[/HAYASHI, Viscount Tomoyuki|HAYASHI, Viscount Tomoyuki]]
* [[/HAYASHI, Yuzo|HAYASHI, Yuzo]]
* [[/HAYES, Dr. W. M.|HAYES, Dr. W. M.]]
* [[/HAYNES, Alwyn Sidney|HAYNES, Alwyn Sidney]]
* [[/HAYS, John|HAYS, John]]
* [[/HAYTER, Henry William Goodenough|HAYTER, Henry William Goodenough]]
* [[/HAZELAND, Ernest Manning|HAZELAND, Ernest Manning]]
* [[/HAZELAND, Francis Arthur|HAZELAND, Francis Arthur]]
* [[/HEADLAND, Prof. Isaac Taylor|HEADLAND, Prof. Isaac Taylor]]
* [[/HEDLEY, Rev. John|HEDLEY, Rev. John]]
* [[/HEFFER, F. C.|HEFFER, F. C.]]
* [[/HEMINGWAY, Dr. Willoughby A.|HEMINGWAY, Dr. Willoughby A.]]
* [[/HENHAM, Rev. Hubert Collison|HENHAM, Rev. Hubert Collison]]
* [[/HENSHAW, Percy Howard|HENSHAW, Percy Howard]]
* [[/HEREFORD, George A.|HEREFORD, George A.]]
* [[/HERRIOTT, Rev. Clarence Dillaway|HERRIOTT, Rev. Clarence Dillaway]]
* [[/HEWETT, Hon. Edbert Ansgar|HEWETT, Hon. Edbert Ansgar]]
* [[/HICKIE, Bertram|HICKIE, Bertram]]
* [[/HICKLING, Charles Herbert|HICKLING, Charles Herbert]]
* [[/HIGASHI-FUSHIMI, Prince|HIGASHI-FUSHIMI, Prince]]
* [[/HIGASHIKUZE, Count|HIGASHIKUZE, Count]]
* [[/HIGGS, Hubert Leonard|HIGGS, Hubert Leonard]]
* [[/HIGHETT, David John|HIGHETT, David John]]
* [[/HIJIKATA, Count Hisamoto|HIJIKATA, Count Hisamoto]]
* [[/HILL, Hon. E. C. H.|HILL, Hon. E. C. H.]]
* [[/HILL, Rev. Joseph Kimber|HILL, Rev. Joseph Kimber]]
* [[/HILL, Thomas Heslop|HILL, Thomas Heslop]]
* [[/HILL, Valentine|HILL, Valentine]]
* [[/HILLIER, Edward Guy|HILLIER, Edward Guy]]
* [[/HILLIS, Rev. Lewis Bradley|HILLIS, Rev. Lewis Bradley]]
* [[/HINCHLEY, John William|HINCHLEY, John William]]
* [[/HINMAN, Rev. George Warren|HINMAN, Rev. George Warren]]
* [[/HIRAI, Seijiro|HIRAI, Seijiro]]
* [[/HIRATA, Baron Tosuke|HIRATA, Baron Tosuke]]
* [[/HIROMI, Jisaburo|HIROMI, Jisaburo]]
* [[/HOARE, Rt. Rev. Joseph Charles|HOARE, Rt. Rev. Joseph Charles]]
* [[/HOBART-HAMPDEN|HOBART-HAMPDEN]]
* [[/HOBSON, Samuel George|HOBSON, Samuel George]]
* [[/HO CH'ENG-AO, General|HO CH'ENG-AO, General]]
* [[/HO FOOK|HO FOOK]]
* [[/HO HIU SHANG|HO HIU SHANG]]
* [[/HO KAI, Dr.|HO KAI, Dr.]]
* [[/HOKKAIDO, Bishop of|HOKKAIDO, Bishop of]]
* [[/HOLDEN, George|HOLDEN, George]]
* [[/HOLLINGSWORTH, Arnold Hackney|HOLLINGSWORTH, Arnold Hackney]]
* [[/HOLLIDAY, Cecil W.|HOLLIDAY, Cecil W.]]
* [[/HOLMES, Ernest Hamilton|HOLMES, Ernest Hamilton]]
* [[/HONDA, Yoichi|HONDA, Yoichi]]
* [[/HOOPER, A. Shelton|HOOPER, A. Shelton]]
* [[/HOOPER, William Edward|HOOPER, William Edward]]
* [[/HOOPS, Dr. Albert Lancelot|HOOPS, Dr. Albert Lancelot]]
* [[/HOPKINS, Lionel Charles|HOPKINS, Lionel Charles]]
* [[/HORDER, Dr. Edward George|HORDER, Dr. Edward George]]
* [[/HORSWELL, Dr. G. H.|HORSWELL, Dr. G. H.]]
* [[/HORTON, Reginald George Lloyd|HORTON, Reginald George Lloyd]]
* [[/HOSE, Charles|HOSE, Charles]]
* [[/HOSE, Edward Shaw|HOSE, Edward Shaw]]
* [[/HOSE, Right Rev. George Frederick|HOSE, Right Rev. George Frederick]]
* [[/HOSIE, Alexander|HOSIE, Alexander]]
* [[/HOSOKAWA, Baron Junjiro|HOSOKAWA, Baron Junjiro]]
* [[/HO TUNG, or HO HIU SHANG|HO TUNG, or HO HIU SHANG]]
* [[/HOUGH, Thomas Frederick|HOUGH, Thomas Frederick]]
* [[/HOWARD, E. C. C.|HOWARD, E. C. C.]]
* [[/HOWELL, James|HOWELL, James]]
* [[/HOZUMI, Nobushige|HOZUMI, Nobushige]]
* [[/HOZUMI, Yatsuka|HOZUMI, Yatsuka]]
* [[/HSIA HSING-YU, General|HSIA HSING-YU, General]]
* [[/HSIANG-HENG, Lieut.-General|HSIANG-HENG, Lieut.-General]]
* [[/HSI LIANG|HSI LIANG]]
* [[/HSI T'UNG|HSI T'UNG]]
* [[/HSU CHEN-PING, Rear Admiral|HSU CHEN-PING, Rear Admiral]]
* [[/HSU CHUEH|HSU CHUEH]]
* [[/HSU FU|HSU FU]]
* [[/HSU SHIH-CHANG|HSU SHIH-CHANG]]
* [[/HUANG CHUNG-HAO|HUANG CHUNG-HAO]]
* [[/HUANG SHAO-CHUN, General|HUANG SHAO-CHUN, General]]
* [[/HUANG TSUN-HSIEN|HUANG TSUN-HSIEN]]
* [[/HUBBARD, Rev. George Henry|HUBBARD, Rev. George Henry]]
* [[/HUBBOCK, Arthur Benison|HUBBOCK, Arthur Benison]]
* [[/HUCKABY, Dr. Egbert M.|HUCKABY, Dr. Egbert M.]]
* [[/HUDSON, Hon. Herbert Henry|HUDSON, Hon. Herbert Henry]]
* [[/HUGHES, Edward Jones|HUGHES, Edward Jones]]
* [[/HUGHES, George E. E. H.|HUGHES, George E. E. H.]]
* [[/HUGHES, J. Owen|HUGHES, J. Owen]]
* [[/HUGHES, Michael|HUGHES, Michael]]
* [[/HUKE. Alfred N.|HUKE. Alfred N.]]
* [[/HULL, Lieut.-Colonel John Adley|HULL, Lieut.-Colonel John Adley]]
* [[/HULL, Willard B.|HULL, Willard B.]]
* [[/HULLETT, Richmond William|HULLETT, Richmond William]]
* [[/HUME, Lt. -Colonel Charles Vernon|HUME, Lt. -Colonel Charles Vernon]]
* [[/HUME, William James Parke|HUME, William James Parke]]
* [[/HUMPHREYS, Henry|HUMPHREYS, Henry]]
* [[/HUMPHREYS, William Griffith|HUMPHREYS, William Griffith]]
* [[/HUNTER, H. E. R.|HUNTER, H. E. R.]]
* [[/HUNTER, Dr. William|HUNTER, Dr. William]]
* [[/HUNTINGTON, Rev. Daniel Turnbull|HUNTINGTON, Rev. Daniel Turnbull]]
* [[/HUNTLEY, Dr. George A.|HUNTLEY, Dr. George A.]]
* [[/HURSTHOUSE, Henry|HURSTHOUSE, Henry]]
* [[/HUTCHINSON, Rev. Arthur Blockey|HUTCHINSON, Rev. Arthur Blockey]]
* [[/HU TING -KAN|HU TING -KAN]]
* [[/HUTTENBACH, Hon. August|HUTTENBACH, Hon. August]]
* [[/HU WEI-TE|HU WEI-TE]]
* [[/HU YU-FEN|HU YU-FEN]]
* [[/HYNDMAN JONES, William Henry|HYNDMAN JONES, William Henry]]
* [[/IBRAHIM, His Highness|IBRAHIM, His Highness]]
* [[/ICHIHARA, Morihiro|ICHIHARA, Morihiro]]
* [[/ICHIJI, Major-General Kosuke|ICHIJI, Major-General Kosuke]]
* [[/ICHIKI, Kitokuro|ICHIKI, Kitokuro]]
* [[/IDE, Hon. Henry C.|IDE, Hon. Henry C.]]
* [[/IEJIMA, Kai|IEJIMA, Kai]]
* [[/IIMORI, Teizo|IIMORI, Teizo]]
* [[/IKEBE, Kichitaro|IKEBE, Kichitaro]]
* [[/IKEDA, Baron Kensai|IKEDA, Baron Kensai]]
* [[/IKEDA. Kenzo|IKEDA. Kenzo]]
* [[/I-KU|I-KU]]
* [[/I-K'UANG|I-K'UANG]]
* [[/ILIFF, Rt. Rev. Geoffrey Durnford|ILIFF, Rt. Rev. Geoffrey Durnford]]
* [[/INAGAKI, Manjiro|INAGAKI, Manjiro]]
* [[/INGLEHART, Rev. Edwin Taylor|INGLEHART, Rev. Edwin Taylor]]
* [[/INGRAM, Dr. James H.|INGRAM, Dr. James H.]]
* [[/INNES, John Robert|INNES, John Robert]]
* [[/INOUYE, Kakugoro|INOUYE, Kakugoro]]
* [[/INOUYE, Count Kaoru|INOUYE, Count Kaoru]]
* [[/INOUYE, Viscount Katsu|INOUYE, Viscount Katsu]]
* [[/INOUYE, Katsunosuke|INOUYE, Katsunosuke]]
* [[/INOUYE, Tetsujiro|INOUYE, Tetsujiro]]
* [[/INOUYE, Admiral Baron Yoshika|INOUYE, Admiral Baron Yoshika]]
* [[/IUNKAI, Ki|IUNKAI, Ki]]
* [[/IRISAWA, Tatsukichi|IRISAWA, Tatsukichi]]
* [[/IRVING, Edward Alexander|IRVING, Edward Alexander]]
* [[/ISHIGURO, Isoji|ISHIGURO, Isoji]]
* [[/ISHIGURO, Baron Tadama|ISHIGURO, Baron Tadama]]
* [[/ISHIKAWA, Chiyomatsu|ISHIKAWA, Chiyomatsu]]
* [[/ISHIMOTO, Shiaroku|ISHIMOTO, Shiaroku]]
* [[/ISHIWATARU, Bin-Ichi|ISHIWATARU, Bin-Ichi]]
* [[/ISHIZUKA, Yeizo|ISHIZUKA, Yeizo]]
* [[/ISHUIN, Vice-Admiral Goro|ISHUIN, Vice-Admiral Goro]]
* [[/ISNARD, Louis Antoine|ISNARD, Louis Antoine]]
* [[/ITAGAKI, Count Taisuke|ITAGAKI, Count Taisuke]]
* [[/I-TI|I-TI]]
* [[/ITO, Marquis Hirobumi|ITO, Marquis Hirobumi]]
* [[/ITO, Baron Miyoji|ITO, Baron Miyoji]]
* [[/ITO, Baron Shunkichi|ITO, Baron Shunkichi]]
* [[/ITO, Admiral, Viscount Sukenori|ITO, Admiral, Viscount Sukenori]]
* [[/IWAKURA, Prince Tomosada|IWAKURA, Prince Tomosada]]
* [[/IWAMURA, Baron Michitoshi|IWAMURA, Baron Michitoshi]]
* [[/IWASA. Jun.|IWASA. Jun.]]
* [[/IWASAKI, Baron Hisaya|IWASAKI, Baron Hisaya]]
* [[/IWASAKI, Baron Yanosuke|IWASAKI, Baron Yanosuke]]
* [[/IWAYA, Shu|IWAYA, Shu]]
* [[/IZARD, Rev. Herbert Crawford|IZARD, Rev. Herbert Crawford]]
* [[/JACK, William Charles|JACK, William Charles]]
* [[/JACKSON, Andrew Gilmore|JACKSON, Andrew Gilmore]]
* [[/JACKSON, James Edward|JACKSON, James Edward]]
* [[/JACKSON, Robert D.|JACKSON, Robert D.]]
* [[/JAMES, Benjamin|JAMES, Benjamin]]
* [[/JAMESON, John Watt|JAMESON, John Watt]]
* [[/JAMIESON, George|JAMIESON, George]]
* [[/JAMIESON, James William|JAMIESON, James William]]
* [[/JAPAN, Emperor of|JAPAN, Emperor of]]
* [[/JAPAN, Crown Prince of|JAPAN, Crown Prince of]]
* [[/JAPAN (CENTRAL), Bishop of|JAPAN (CENTRAL), Bishop of]]
* [[/JAPAN (NORTH), Bishop of|JAPAN (NORTH), Bishop of]]
* [[/JAPAN (SOUTH), Bishop of|JAPAN (SOUTH), Bishop of]]
* [[/JAPAN (WEST), Bishop of|JAPAN (WEST), Bishop of]]
* [[/JEANNERAT, Gabriel|JEANNERAT, Gabriel]]
* [[/JEANNIN, Colonel Gabriel|JEANNIN, Colonel Gabriel]]
* [[/JEBSON, J.|JEBSON, J.]]
* [[/JEFFRIES, H. U.|JEFFRIES, H. U.]]
* [[/JELF, Arthur Selborne|JELF, Arthur Selborne]]
* [[/JEME TIEN-YOU, or CHAN TIEN-YU|JEME TIEN-YOU, or CHAN TIEN-YU]]
* [[/JENKINS, Dr. H. Stanley|JENKINS, Dr. H. Stanley]]
* [[/JERNIGAN, Thomas R.|JERNIGAN, Thomas R.]]
* [[/JOHN, Rev. Griffith|JOHN, Rev. Griffith]]
* [[/JOHNSON, Henry|JOHNSON, Henry]]
* [[/JOHNSON, Hon. H. C. Brooke|JOHNSON, Hon. H. C. Brooke]]
* [[/JOHNSON, Rev. Weston T.|JOHNSON, Rev. Weston T.]]
* [[/JOHNSON, Alexander|JOHNSON, Alexander]]
* [[/JOHNSTON, Lieut-Colonel Henry Halcro|JOHNSTON, Lieut-Colonel Henry Halcro]]
* [[/JOHNSTON, Lewis Audley Marsh|JOHNSTON, Lewis Audley Marsh]]
* [[/JOHNSTON, Rev. Mercer Green|JOHNSTON, Rev. Mercer Green]]
* [[/JOHNSTON, R. Fleming|JOHNSTON, R. Fleming]]
* [[/JOHORE, Sultan of|JOHORE, Sultan of]]
* [[/JOLY, Jean Raymond Washington Rouzier-|JOLY, Jean Raymond Washington Rouzier-]]
* [[/JONES, Geoffrey L. Parry-|JONES, Geoffrey L. Parry-]]
* [[/JONES, George S. Averay|JONES, George S. Averay]]
* [[/JONES, Harold William James|JONES, Harold William James]]
* [[/JONES, Hyndman|JONES, Hyndman]]
* [[/JONES, John William Lee-|JONES, John William Lee-]]
* [[/JONES, Patrick Nicholas Hill|JONES, Patrick Nicholas Hill]]
* [[/JONES, Major-General Richmund Inigo|JONES, Major-General Richmund Inigo]]
* [[/JONES, Dr. William Yates|JONES, Dr. William Yates]]
* [[/JONQUIERES, Admiral M.P.E. Fauque de|JONQUIERES, Admiral M.P.E. Fauque de]]
* [[/JORDAN, Dr. Gregory Paul|JORDAN, Dr. Gregory Paul]]
* [[/JORDAN, Sir John Newell|JORDAN, Sir John Newell]]
* [[/JOSEPH, E. S.|JOSEPH, E. S.]]
* [[/JOSLING, Lieut.-Col. Charles Langford|JOSLING, Lieut.-Col. Charles Langford]]
* [[/JUDGE, Thomas|JUDGE, Thomas]]
* [[/JUI, Prince|JUI, Prince]]
* [[/JUI CH'ENG|JUI CH'ENG]]
* [[/JUI-LIANG|JUI-LIANG]]
* [[/JU-LIN, Lieut. - General|JU-LIN, Lieut. - General]]
* [[/JULLIDIERE, Pierre Marie|JULLIDIERE, Pierre Marie]]
* [[/JUNG-CH'ING|JUNG-CH'ING]]
* [[/JUNGHUI|JUNGHUI]]
* [[/JUNG, P'EI|JUNG, P'EI]]
* [[/JUPP, John Ambrose|JUPP, John Ambrose]]
* [[/JUST, Albert Wolfgang|JUST, Albert Wolfgang]]
* [[/JUSTI, Dr. Karl|JUSTI, Dr. Karl]]
* [[/KABAYAMA, Admiral Count Sukenori|KABAYAMA, Admiral Count Sukenori]]
* [[/KADOORIE, E. S.|KADOORIE, E. S.]]
* [[/KAGAWA, Viscount Keizo|KAGAWA, Viscount Keizo]]
* [[/KAHLER, W. R.|KAHLER, W. R.]]
* [[/KAIJIMA, Tasuke|KAIJIMA, Tasuke]]
* [[/KAIYEDA, Viscount Keizo|KAIYEDA, Viscount Keizo]]
* [[/KAMADA, Yeikichi|KAMADA, Yeikichi]]
* [[/KAMIMURA, Vics-Admiral Hikonojo|KAMIMURA, Vics-Admiral Hikonojo]]
* [[/KANAI, Noburu|KANAI, Noburu]]
* [[/KANEKO, Baron Kentaro|KANEKO, Baron Kentaro]]
* [[/KAN-IN, Prince|KAN-IN, Prince]]
* [[/KANO, Jigoro|KANO, Jigoro]]
* [[/KATAYAMA, Kuniyoshi|KATAYAMA, Kuniyoshi]]
* [[/KATO, Baron Hiroyuki|KATO, Baron Hiroyuki]]
* [[/KATO, Masayoshi|KATO, Masayoshi]]
* [[/KATO, Masuo|KATO, Masuo]]
* [[/KATO, Taka-akira|KATO, Taka-akira]]
* [[/KATO, Tsunetada|KATO, Tsunetada]]
* [[/KATSURA, General Count Taro|KATSURA, General Count Taro]]
* [[/KAUZAKI, Naozo|KAUZAKI, Naozo]]
* [[/KAWAMURA, General Baron|KAWAMURA, General Baron]]
* [[/KAWASAKI, Hachemon|KAWASAKI, Hachemon]]
* [[/KAYA, Prince|KAYA, Prince]]
* [[/KENG, Dr. Lim Boon|KENG, Dr. Lim Boon]]
* [[/KENNEDY, Henry Albert|KENNEDY, Henry Albert]]
* [[/KENNY, William Eyre|KENNY, William Eyre]]
* [[/KENNY, William Joseph|KENNY, William Joseph]]
* [[/KENT, Maurice Morton|KENT, Maurice Morton]]
* [[/KENT, Percy Horace Braund|KENT, Percy Horace Braund]]
* [[/KER, William Pollock|KER, William Pollock]]
* [[/KERFOOT, James|KERFOOT, James]]
* [[/KERSHAW, Thomas|KERSHAW, Thomas]]
* [[/KETTLEWELL, Rev. Fred.|KETTLEWELL, Rev. Fred.]]
* [[/KEUN, Dr. Alfred Havelock|KEUN, Dr. Alfred Havelock]]
* [[/KEW, Frederick Hoard|KEW, Frederick Hoard]]
* [[/KEYT, Dr. Frederic|KEYT, Dr. Frederic]]
* [[/KIANG-SU, Emperor of China|KIANG-SU, Emperor of China]]
* [[/KIDDLE, Lieut.-Commander John|KIDDLE, Lieut.-Commander John]]
* [[/KIKUCHI, Baron Dairoku|KIKUCHI, Baron Dairoku]]
* [[/KIKUCHI, Takeo|KIKUCHI, Takeo]]
* [[/KIMURA, Riemon|KIMURA, Riemon]]
* [[/KINDER. Claude William|KINDER. Claude William]]
* [[/KING, Hamilton|KING, Hamilton]]
* [[/KING, Harold Frederick|KING, Harold Frederick]]
* [[/KING, Joseph Leeman|KING, Joseph Leeman]]
* [[/KING, Robert Henry|KING, Robert Henry]]
* [[/KING, Walter|KING, Walter]]
* [[/KING, William Coleby|KING, William Coleby]]
* [[/KINGSMILL, Thomas William|KINGSMILL, Thomas William]]
* [[/KINOSHITA, Hiroji|KINOSHITA, Hiroji]]
* [[/KIRKPATRICK, Ivone|KIRKPATRICK, Ivone]]
* [[/KISHIMOTO, Tatsuo|KISHIMOTO, Tatsuo]]
* [[/KITAGAKI, Baron Kunimichi|KITAGAKI, Baron Kunimichi]]
* [[/KITAO, Jiro|KITAO, Jiro]]
* [[/KITA-SHIRAKAWA, Prince|KITA-SHIRAKAWA, Prince]]
* [[/KITAZATO, Dr. Shibasaburo|KITAZATO, Dr. Shibasaburo]]
* [[/KIYOURA, Barcn Keigo|KIYOURA, Barcn Keigo]]
* [[/KLEIMENOW, C.|KLEIMENOW, C.]]
* [[/KNAGGS, A. L.|KNAGGS, A. L.]]
* [[/KNAPP, A. M.|KNAPP, A. M.]]
* [[/KNIDER, Frederick Thomas|KNIDER, Frederick Thomas]]
* [[/KNOCKER, Fred. Wm.|KNOCKER, Fred. Wm.]]
* [[/KNOX, Lieut.-Commander John F.|KNOX, Lieut.-Commander John F.]]
* [[/KOBA, Sadanaga|KOBA, Sadanaga]]
* [[/KOCH, John Godfrey|KOCH, John Godfrey]]
* [[/KOCH, Dr. Wilfred Vincent Miller|KOCH, Dr. Wilfred Vincent Miller]]
* [[/KODAMA, General Viscount Gentaro|KODAMA, General Viscount Gentaro]]
* [[/K'O FENG-SHIH|K'O FENG-SHIH]]
* [[/KOKE, Matsuoka|KOKE, Matsuoka]]
* [[/KOMATSUBARA. Yeltaro|KOMATSUBARA. Yeltaro]]
* [[/K'O MENG-O, Lieut-General|K'O MENG-O, Lieut-General]]
* [[/KOMOTO, Dr. Jujiro|KOMOTO, Dr. Jujiro]]
* [[/KOMURA, Baron Jutaro|KOMURA, Baron Jutaro]]
* [[/KONDO, Rempei|KONDO, Rempei]]
* [[/KONO, Hironaka|KONO, Hironaka]]
* [[/KO PAO-HUA|KO PAO-HUA]]
* [[/KORFF, A.|KORFF, A.]]
* [[/KRANZ, Rev. Paul|KRANZ, Rev. Paul]]
* [[/KRIEKENBECK, J. W.|KRIEKENBECK, J. W.]]
* [[/KRUGER, Dr. Friedrich|KRUGER, Dr. Friedrich]]
* [[/KUANG-HSU, Emperor|KUANG-HSU, Emperor]]
* [[/KU CHAO-HSI|KU CHAO-HSI]]
* [[/K'UEI-CHUN|K'UEI-CHUN]]
* [[/KUEI-HSIANG, Duke|KUEI-HSIANG, Duke]]
* [[/K'UEI HUAN|K'UEI HUAN]]
* [[/KUEI-LIN|KUEI-LIN]]
* [[/K'UEI-FU|K'UEI-FU]]
* [[/K'UEI-PIN, Lieut-General Prince Jui|K'UEI-PIN, Lieut-General Prince Jui]]
* [[/K'UEI-SHUN|K'UEI-SHUN]]
* [[/KUGA, Marquis Michihisa|KUGA, Marquis Michihisa]]
* [[/KUKI, Baron Takakazu|KUKI, Baron Takakazu]]
* [[/KUMAKAWA: Dr. Muneo|KUMAKAWA: Dr. Muneo]]
* [[/KUME, Kei-ichiro|KUME, Kei-ichiro]]
* [[/K'UN-HSIU, Lieut-General|K'UN-HSIU, Lieut-General]]
* [[/KUNI, Prince|KUNI, Prince]]
* [[/KUO-CH'UAN|KUO-CH'UAN]]
* [[/K'UO-P'U-T'UNG-WU|K'UO-P'U-T'UNG-WU]]
* [[/KURINO, Shin-ichiro|KURINO, Shin-ichiro]]
* [[/KURODA, Kiyoteru|KURODA, Kiyoteru]]
* [[/KURODA. Marquis Nagashiga|KURODA. Marquis Nagashiga]]
* [[/KUROIWA, Shuroku|KUROIWA, Shuroku]]
* [[/KUROKI, Baron, General|KUROKI, Baron, General]]
* [[/KWANG-HSU, Emperor of Chin|KWANG-HSU, Emperor of Chin]]
* [[/KYUSHU, Bishop of|KYUSHU, Bishop of]]
* [[/LAFFONT, Saturnin Louis Edouard|LAFFONT, Saturnin Louis Edouard]]
* [[/LAGRANGE, Charles Auguste|LAGRANGE, Charles Auguste]]
* [[/LAGUARIGUE DE SURVILLIERS, Colonel Louis F. E.|LAGUARIGUE DE SURVILLIERS, Colonel Louis F. E.]]
* [[/LAIDLAW, George Muir|LAIDLAW, George Muir]]
* [[/LAKE, Rev. John|LAKE, Rev. John]]
* [[/LAMBERT, John|LAMBERT, John]]
* [[/LAMMERT, George Philip|LAMMERT, George Philip]]
* [[/LANGHAM-CARTER, W.|LANGHAM-CARTER, W.]]
* [[/LANGSDORF, Rev. William Bell|LANGSDORF, Rev. William Bell]]
* [[/LANGSTON, Stephen Horatio|LANGSTON, Stephen Horatio]]
* [[/LANNING, George|LANNING, George]]
* [[/LANSDELL, Alfred|LANSDELL, Alfred]]
* [[/LAU CHU-PAK|LAU CHU-PAK]]
* [[/LAURANS, Louis Joseph Charle Felix|LAURANS, Louis Joseph Charle Felix]]
* [[/LAW, Archibald Fitzgerald|LAW, Archibald Fitzgerald]]
* [[/LAW, Donaldson Riddell|LAW, Donaldson Riddell]]
* [[/LAWRENCE, Captain Lionel Aubrey Walter Barnes-|LAWRENCE, Captain Lionel Aubrey Walter Barnes-]]
* [[/LAWRIE, James Wm.|LAWRIE, James Wm.]]
* [[/LAWSHE, Abraham L.|LAWSHE, Abraham L.]]
* [[/LAWSON, Eric St. John|LAWSON, Eric St. John]]
* [[/LAY, Julius Gareche|LAY, Julius Gareche]]
* [[/LAY, W. T.|LAY, W. T.]]
* [[/LEARNED, Dr. Dwight Whitney|LEARNED, Dr. Dwight Whitney]]
* [[/LEASK, Dr. John|LEASK, Dr. John]]
* [[/LE CAMUS, Lieut. -Colonel Michel M. V.|LE CAMUS, Lieut. -Colonel Michel M. V.]]
* [[/LECLERE, Adhemard Henri Alfred Albert|LECLERE, Adhemard Henri Alfred Albert]]
* [[/LEE, Edward Foster|LEE, Edward Foster]]
* [[/LEE-JONES|LEE-JONES]]
* [[/LEE-WARNER|LEE-WARNER]]
* [[/LE FEVRE, Thomas|LE FEVRE, Thomas]]
* [[/LEIRIA, Joao Joaquim|LEIRIA, Joao Joaquim]]
* [[/LEMASSON, Emile|LEMASSON, Emile]]
* [[/LEMON, Arthur Henry|LEMON, Arthur Henry]]
* [[/LENCOU-BAREME, Rene Louis|LENCOU-BAREME, Rene Louis]]
* [[/LENZMANN, Carl Robert|LENZMANN, Carl Robert]]
* [[/LEPONT, Rev. Ernest S.|LEPONT, Rev. Ernest S.]]
* [[/LERA. C. A.|LERA. C. A.]]
* [[/LE ROY, Joseph Pierre Marie|LE ROY, Joseph Pierre Marie]]
* [[/LE VASSEUR, Alfred|LE VASSEUR, Alfred]]
* [[/LEVECQUE, Ernest Fernand|LEVECQUE, Ernest Fernand]]
* [[/LEVERING, Martin Murrey|LEVERING, Martin Murrey]]
* [[/LEVY, Georges|LEVY, Georges]]
* [[/LEWIS, Edward Cornewall Lynch|LEWIS, Edward Cornewall Lynch]]
* [[/LEWIS, John E. A.|LEWIS, John E. A.]]
* [[/LEWIS, Robert Ellsworth|LEWIS, Robert Ellsworth]]
* [[/LI, Prince|LI, Prince]]
* [[/LI AN-T'UNG, General|LI AN-T'UNG, General]]
* [[/LIANG-CH'ENG, Sir Cheng|LIANG-CH'ENG, Sir Cheng]]
* [[/LIANG TUN-YEN|LIANG TUN-YEN]]
* [[/LI CHAN-CH'UN, General|LI CHAN-CH'UN, General]]
* [[/LI CHAO-WEI|LI CHAO-WEI]]
* [[/LI CHIA-CHU|LI CHIA-CHU]]
* [[/LI CHING-FANG|LI CHING-FANG]]
* [[/LI CHING-MAI|LI CHING-MAI]]
* [[/LI CHING-HSI|LI CHING-HSI]]
* [[/LI FU-TSAO|LI FU-TSAO]]
* [[/LI HSI-CHIEH|LI HSI-CHIEH]]
* [[/LI KUO-CHIEH, General|LI KUO-CHIEH, General]]
* [[/LI MIN-SHEN|LI MIN-SHEN]]
* [[/LI SHENG-TO|LI SHENG-TO]]
* [[/LI SUM LING|LI SUM LING]]
* [[/LIEBEUT, Gaston|LIEBEUT, Gaston]]
* [[/LIEN-K'UEI|LIEN-K'UEI]]
* [[/LIEN-SHUN, Lieut.-Gsneral|LIEN-SHUN, Lieut.-Gsneral]]
* [[/LIN SHAO-NIEN|LIN SHAO-NIEN]]
* [[/LINCOLN, Rev. Charles S. F.|LINCOLN, Rev. Charles S. F.]]
* [[/LINDSTROM, Rev. H. E. S.|LINDSTROM, Rev. H. E. S.]]
* [[/LINTON, A. R.|LINTON, A. R.]]
* [[/LIM WEI-YUAN|LIM WEI-YUAN]]
* [[/LITCHFIELD, Henry Charles|LITCHFIELD, Henry Charles]]
* [[/LITTLE, Alexander Colbourne|LITTLE, Alexander Colbourne]]
* [[/LITTLE, Archibald John|LITTLE, Archibald John]]
* [[/LITTLE, Mrs. Archibald|LITTLE, Mrs. Archibald]]
* [[/LITTLE, R. S.|LITTLE, R. S.]]
* [[/LITTLE, Henry Alexander|LITTLE, Henry Alexander]]
* [[/LITTLE, W. D.|LITTLE, W. D.]]
* [[/LITTON, George John Letablere|LITTON, George John Letablere]]
* [[/LIU CH'UN-LIN|LIU CH'UN-LIN]]
* [[/LIU HSUEH-HSUN|LIU HSUEH-HSUN]]
* [[/LIU SIK-FAN|LIU SIK-FAN]]
* [[/LIU YU-LIN|LIU YU-LIN]]
* [[/LIU YUNG-FU|LIU YUNG-FU]]
* [[/LIU YUNG-HENG, General|LIU YUNG-HENG, General]]
* [[/LIU'EN-P'U|LIU'EN-P'U]]
* [[/LLOYD, Prof. Arthur|LLOYD, Prof. Arthur]]
* [[/LLOYD, J. J.|LLOYD, J. J.]]
* [[/LOCK, C. G. Warnford|LOCK, C. G. Warnford]]
* [[/LOCKHART, James Haldene Stawart|LOCKHART, James Haldene Stawart]]
* [[/LOENHOLM, Prof. L. H.|LOENHOLM, Prof. L. H.]]
* [[/LOEW, Prof. Carl Benedict Oscar|LOEW, Prof. Carl Benedict Oscar]]
* [[/LOMET, Henri|LOMET, Henri]]
* [[/LONDON, Jonkheer J.|LONDON, Jonkheer J.]]
* [[/LOOKER, Herbert William|LOOKER, Herbert William]]
* [[/LOOMIS, Rev. Henry|LOOMIS, Rev. Henry]]
* [[/LORIN, Albert|LORIN, Albert]]
* [[/LORNIE, J.|LORNIE, J.]]
* [[/LOURME, Joseph Ernest|LOURME, Joseph Ernest]]
* [[/LOUVEL, Lieut. -Colonel J. E.|LOUVEL, Lieut. -Colonel J. E.]]
* [[/LOWE, Arthur Rylands|LOWE, Arthur Rylands]]
* [[/LOWIS, Major Harry Elliott|LOWIS, Major Harry Elliott]]
* [[/LOWRY, Prof. George Davis N.|LOWRY, Prof. George Davis N.]]
* [[/LOWRY, Rev. H. H.|LOWRY, Rev. H. H.]]
* [[/LUARD, Commander Herbert Du C.|LUARD, Commander Herbert Du C.]]
* [[/LUCE, Louis Paul|LUCE, Louis Paul]]
* [[/LUCY, Dr. Sidney Herbert Reginald|LUCY, Dr. Sidney Herbert Reginald]]
* [[/LU CH'UAN-LIN|LU CH'UAN-LIN]]
* [[/LU HAI-HUAN|LU HAI-HUAN]]
* [[/LU JUN-HSIANG|LU JUN-HSIANG]]
* [[/LU PAO-CHUNG|LU PAO-CHUNG]]
* [[/LU PEN-YUAN, General|LU PEN-YUAN, General]]
* [[/LUPTON, Harry|LUPTON, Harry]]
* [[/LYLE, Thomas Harold|LYLE, Thomas Harold]]
* [[/MAATHON, H. H. Sir Ahmad Shah|MAATHON, H. H. Sir Ahmad Shah]]
* [[/MACARTHUR, James Duncan|MACARTHUR, James Duncan]]
* [[/MACBEAN, William|MACBEAN, William]]
* [[/MACDONALD, Sir Claude M.|MACDONALD, Sir Claude M.]]
* [[/MACDONALD, Donald|MACDONALD, Donald]]
* [[/MACDONALD, Rev. Roderick John Johnstone|MACDONALD, Rev. Roderick John Johnstone]]
* [[/MACDOWELL, Dr. Donald Keith|MACDOWELL, Dr. Donald Keith]]
* [[/MACEY, Paul Joseph Julien|MACEY, Paul Joseph Julien]]
* [[/MACFARLANE, Dr. Harold|MACFARLANE, Dr. Harold]]
* [[/MACFAYDEN, Eric|MACFAYDEN, Eric]]
* [[/MACGILLIVRAY, Rev. Donald|MACGILLIVRAY, Rev. Donald]]
* [[/MA CHIN-HSU, Admiral|MA CHIN-HSU, Admiral]]
* [[/MACHLE, Edward Charles|MACHLE, Edward Charles]]
* [[/MacIntyre, D. C.|MACINTYRE, D. C.]]
* [[/MacIver, Rev. Donald|MACIVER, Rev. Donald]]
* [[/MACKENZIE, Alexander|MACKENZIE, Alexander]]
* [[/MACKINNON, Lewis Arthur Ranking|MACKINNON, Lewis Arthur Ranking]]
* [[/MACKRAY, William Henderson|MACKRAY, William Henderson]]
* [[/MACLAREN, James Waddell Boyd|MACLAREN, James Waddell Boyd]]
* [[/MACRAY, H. A. J.|MACRAY, H. A. J.]]
* [[/MACWILLIE, Dr. John|MACWILLIE, Dr. John]]
* [[/MADDEN, Rev. Milton Bolivar|MADDEN, Rev. Milton Bolivar]]
* [[/MADDOCKS, William Edward|MADDOCKS, William Edward]]
* [[/MADELEY, Rev. Frank|MADELEY, Rev. Frank]]
* [[/MAHE, Georges Marie Joseph|MAHE, Georges Marie Joseph]]
* [[/MAIN, Dr. David Duncan|MAIN, Dr. David Duncan]]
* [[/MAITLAND, Francis|MAITLAND, Francis]]
* [[/MAITLAND, F. J.|MAITLAND, F. J.]]
* [[/MAKING, Nobuaki|MAKING, Nobuaki]]
* [[/MA LIANG, General|MA LIANG, General]]
* [[/MANN, Rev. Arthur S.|MANN, Rev. Arthur S.]]
* [[/MANN, Rev. John Charles|MANN, Rev. John Charles]]
* [[/MANSFIELD, Robert William|MANSFIELD, Robert William]]
* [[/MAO CH'ING-FAN|MAO CH'ING-FAN]]
* [[/MARKS, Oliver|MARKS, Oliver]]
* [[/MARQUES, Augusto Oscar|MARQUES, Augusto Oscar]]
* [[/MARQUES, Dr. Lourenco Pereira|MARQUES, Dr. Lourenco Pereira]]
* [[/MARQUIS, Marie Gaston|MARQUIS, Marie Gaston]]
* [[/MARRIOTT, H.|MARRIOTT, H.]]
* [[/MARRIOTT, Dr. Oswald|MARRIOTT, Dr. Oswald]]
* [[/MARSHALL, Frederick Brougham|MARSHALL, Frederick Brougham]]
* [[/MARTEN, Richard|MARTEN, Richard]]
* [[/MARTIN, Dr. Paul Z.|MARTIN, Dr. Paul Z.]]
* [[/MARTIN, William|MARTIN, William]]
* [[/MARTIN, Dr. W. A. P.|MARTIN, Dr. W. A. P.]]
* [[/MARTIN, Zacharia Martin|MARTIN, Zacharia Martin]]
* [[/MARTY, A. P.|MARTY, A. P.]]
* [[/MASON, James Scott|MASON, James Scott]]
* [[/MASUDA, Tokashi|MASUDA, Tokashi]]
* [[/MASUJIMA, Rokuichiro|MASUJIMA, Rokuichiro]]
* [[/MATSUDA, Masahisa|MATSUDA, Masahisa]]
* [[/MATSUDAIRA, Baron Mosanao|MATSUDAIRA, Baron Mosanao]]
* [[/MATSUKATA, Count Masayoshi|MATSUKATA, Count Masayoshi]]
* [[/MATSUMURA, Ninzo|MATSUMURA, Ninzo]]
* [[/MATSUOKA, Koki|MATSUOKA, Koki]]
* [[/MATTHEWSON, Rev. Wesley F.|MATTHEWSON, Rev. Wesley F.]]
* [[/MATTOX, Rev. Elmer L.|MATTOX, Rev. Elmer L.]]
* [[/MA WEI-CHI, General|MA WEI-CHI, General]]
* [[/MAXWELL, Charleton Neville|MAXWELL, Charleton Neville]]
* [[/MAXWELL. William George|MAXWELL. William George]]
* [[/MAY, C. G.|MAY, C. G.]]
* [[/MAY, C. W.|MAY, C. W.]]
* [[/MAY, Hon. Francis Henry|MAY, Hon. Francis Henry]]
* [[/MAY, Lieut. - Commander John|MAY, Lieut. - Commander John]]
* [[/MAYERS, Frederick John|MAYERS, Frederick John]]
* [[/MAYERS, Sidney Francis|MAYERS, Sidney Francis]]
* [[/MA YU-KU'N, General|MA YU-KU'N, General]]
* [[/McALL, Dr. Percy Lonsdale|McALL, Dr. Percy Lonsdale]]
* [[/McARTHUE, Malcolm Stewart H.|McARTHUE, Malcolm Stewart H.]]
* [[/McCAUSLAND, Cecil Frank|McCAUSLAND, Cecil Frank]]
* [[/McCLELLAND, Francis Alexander Stewart|McCLELLAND, Francis Alexander Stewart]]
* [[/McCLOSKY, Dr. Arthur James|McCLOSKY, Dr. Arthur James]]
* [[/McCRAKETT, James Sanderson|McCRAKETT, James Sanderson]]
* [[/McDONNELL, Percy Gilmour|McDONNELL, Percy Gilmour]]
* [[/McGILVARY, Rev. Daniel|McGILVARY, Rev. Daniel]]
* [[/McGREGOR, Thomas James|McGREGOR, Thomas James]]
* [[/McKENZIE, James|McKENZIE, James]]
* [[/McKIM, Right Rev. John|McKIM, Right Rev. John]]
* [[/McLEAN, Lachlan|McLEAN, Lachlan]]
* [[/McLEISH, William|McLEISH, William]]
* [[/McPHERSON, John Livingstone|McPHERSON, John Livingstone]]
* [[/MEADOWS, Dr. Joseph Guy|MEADOWS, Dr. Joseph Guy]]
* [[/MEDHURST, G. H.|MEDHURST, G. H.]]
* [[/MEGATA, Tanetaro|MEGATA, Tanetaro]]
* [[/MEIN-WEN|MEIN-WEN]]
* [[/MELBOURNE, Charles Alexander Dick|MELBOURNE, Charles Alexander Dick]]
* [[/MELLO, Antonio Alexandrino Gonzaga De|MELLO, Antonio Alexandrino Gonzaga De]]
* [[/MENCARINI, Juan|MENCARINI, Juan]]
* [[/MERKLINGHOUS, Peter|MERKLINGHOUS, Peter]]
* [[/MERZ, Dr. Constantin|MERZ, Dr. Constantin]]
* [[/MESNY, William or Wen-kao|MESNY, William or Wen-kao]]
* [[/MESSER, Charles Mcllvanie|MESSER, Charles Mcllvanie]]
* [[/MEUSER: Otto|MEUSER: Otto]]
* [[/MEYER, Vilhelm|MEYER, Vilhelm]]
* [[/MICHAEL, Joseph R.|MICHAEL, Joseph R.]]
* [[/MICHEL, Gabriel Auguste|MICHEL, Gabriel Auguste]]
* [[/MICHELL, Walter Cecil|MICHELL, Walter Cecil]]
* [[/MIDDLETON, Henry Maxton|MIDDLETON, Henry Maxton]]
* [[/MIDDLETON, Osborne|MIDDLETON, Osborne]]
* [[/MIDDLETON, Dr. W. R. C.|MIDDLETON, Dr. W. R. C.]]
* [[/MIHARA, Andrew Shigekichi|MIHARA, Andrew Shigekichi]]
* [[/MILLER, Merton L.|MILLER, Merton L.]]
* [[/MILLS, Charles Beresford|MILLS, Charles Beresford]]
* [[/MILLS, Frank|MILLS, Frank]]
* [[/MILNE, Dr. William Stuart|MILNE, Dr. William Stuart]]
* [[/MINAMI, Shingo|MINAMI, Shingo]]
* [[/MITSUI, Baron Hachiroemon|MITSUI, Baron Hachiroemon]]
* [[/MINOURA, Katsundo|MINOURA, Katsundo]]
* [[/MISU, Vice-Admiral Sotaro|MISU, Vice-Admiral Sotaro]]
* [[/MITA, Kozi|MITA, Kozi]]
* [[/MITCHELL, E. W.|MITCHELL, E. W.]]
* [[/MITSUHASHI, Nobuyuki|MITSUHASHI, Nobuyuki]]
* [[/MITSUKURI, G.|MITSUKURI, G.]]
* [[/MITSUKURI, K.|MITSUKURI, K.]]
* [[/MIURA, Viscount Goro|MIURA, Viscount Goro]]
* [[/MIURA, Yasushi|MIURA, Yasushi]]
* [[/MIWADA, Masako|MIWADA, Masako]]
* [[/MIYABE, Kingo|MIYABE, Kingo]]
* [[/MIYAKE, Dr. Shu|MIYAKE, Dr. Shu]]
* [[/MIYAKE, Yujiro|MIYAKE, Yujiro]]
* [[/MIYOSHI, Taizo|MIYOSHI, Taizo]]
* [[/M'KIE, James|M'KIE, James]]
* [[/M'MATEER, Rev. Calvin|M'MATEER, Rev. Calvin]]
* [[/MOBSBY, George|MOBSBY, George]]
* [[/MOFFETT, Rev. Lacy Irvine|MOFFETT, Rev. Lacy Irvine]]
* [[/MOFFETT, Rev. Samuel A.|MOFFETT, Rev. Samuel A.]]
* [[/MOIDREY, Father Joseph de|MOIDREY, Father Joseph de]]
* [[/MOK, MAN CHEUNG|MOK, MAN CHEUNG]]
* [[/MOLLER. John Arthur|MOLLER. John Arthur]]
* [[/MONDAY, Albert George|MONDAY, Albert George]]
* [[/MONRO, Commander Charles E.|MONRO, Commander Charles E.]]
* [[/MONTENEGRO, Martinho Pinto de Queiroz|MONTENEGRO, Martinho Pinto de Queiroz]]
* [[/MONTGOMERY, Dr. J. Howard|MONTGOMERY, Dr. J. Howard]]
* [[/MOON, Dr. Joseph Agnew|MOON, Dr. Joseph Agnew]]
* [[/MOOR, Gilbert Henry Royston|MOOR, Gilbert Henry Royston]]
* [[/MOORE, Vice-Admiral Sir Arthur William|MOORE, Vice-Admiral Sir Arthur William]]
* [[/MOORE, Captain Charles H. H.|MOORE, Captain Charles H. H.]]
* [[/MOORE, Dr. William Brownlow Ashe|MOORE, Dr. William Brownlow Ashe]]
* [[/MORE, Dr. Francis Watson|MORE, Dr. Francis Watson]]
* [[/MORGAN, Evan|MORGAN, Evan]]
* [[/MORGAN, Dr. Lorenzo Seymour|MORGAN, Dr. Lorenzo Seymour]]
* [[/MORGAN, Richard Henry|MORGAN, Richard Henry]]
* [[/MORI, Benjiro|MORI, Benjiro]]
* [[/MORI, Dr. Rintaro|MORI, Dr. Rintaro]]
* [[/MORIMURA, Ichizaemon|MORIMURA, Ichizaemon]]
* [[/MORPHY, Edward Alexander|MORPHY, Edward Alexander]]
* [[/MORRISON, Dr. George Ernest|MORRISON, Dr. George Ernest]]
* [[/MORTIMORE. Richard Howard|MORTIMORE. Richard Howard]]
* [[/MOSBERG, Dr. C.|MOSBERG, Dr. C.]]
* [[/MOTODA, Hajime|MOTODA, Hajime]]
* [[/MOTONO, Ichiro|MOTONO, Ichiro]]
* [[/MOULE, Ven. Archdeacon Arthur Evans|MOULE, Ven. Archdeacon Arthur Evans]]
* [[/MOULE, Rt. Rev. George Evans|MOULE, Rt. Rev. George Evans]]
* [[/MOULIE, Bernard Pierre Oscar|MOULIE, Bernard Pierre Oscar]]
* [[/MOULIE, Jean Ernest|MOULIE, Jean Ernest]]
* [[/MOULLIN, H. R.|MOULLIN, H. R.]]
* [[/MOREL, Jules|MOREL, Jules]]
* [[/MORIN. Pierre Francois Auguste|MORIN. Pierre Francois Auguste]]
* [[/MUDAGUCHI, Gengaku|MUDAGUCHI, Gengaku]]
* [[/MUELLE, Eduardo y de la Torre Ugarte|MUELLE, Eduardo y de la Torre Ugarte]]
* [[/MUGLISTON, Dr. Thomas Crighton|MUGLISTON, Dr. Thomas Crighton]]
* [[/MULLER, Dr. Oscar|MULLER, Dr. Oscar]]
* [[/MUMM VON SCHWARZENSTEIN, Freiherr Phillip Alfons|MUMM VON SCHWARZENSTEIN, Freiherr Phillip Alfons]]
* [[/MUNSTER, Bernhard Adolph|MUNSTER, Bernhard Adolph]]
* [[/MURAI, Kichibei|MURAI, Kichibei]]
* [[/MURATA, Tamotsu|MURATA, Tamotsu]]
* [[/MURATA, Baron Tsuneyoshi|MURATA, Baron Tsuneyoshi]]
* [[/MURAYAMA, Ryuhei|MURAYAMA, Ryuhei]]
* [[/MURDOCH, James|MURDOCH, James]]
* [[/MURDOCK, Alfred Maule Burn-|MURDOCK, Alfred Maule Burn-]]
* [[/MURPHY, E. O.|MURPHY, E. O.]]
* [[/MURPHY, Peter Murray|MURPHY, Peter Murray]]
* [[/MURPHY, Rev. U. G.|MURPHY, Rev. U. G.]]
* [[/MURRAY, Colonel the Hon. Alexander V. D.|MURRAY, Colonel the Hon. Alexander V. D.]]
* [[/MURRAY, Dr. David Ambrose|MURRAY, Dr. David Ambrose]]
* [[/MURRAY, George Sheppard|MURRAY, George Sheppard]]
* [[/MURRAY, Rev. John|MURRAY, Rev. John]]
* [[/MURRAY, Rev. William|MURRAY, Rev. William]]
* [[/MURRAY, Rev. William Hill|MURRAY, Rev. William Hill]]
* [[/MUSSO, Giuseppe Domenico|MUSSO, Giuseppe Domenico]]
* [[/MUTSU-HITO, Emperor of Japan|MUTSU-HITO, Emperor of Japan]]
* [[/MYERS, Dr. Wm. Wykeham|MYERS, Dr. Wm. Wykeham]]
* [[/NABESHIMA, Marquis|NABESHIMA, Marquis]]
* [[/NAGAHARA, Baron Shigeru|NAGAHARA, Baron Shigeru]]
* [[/NAGAOKA, Viscount|NAGAOKA, Viscount]]
* [[/NAIN, Rev. Father Charles Benedict|NAIN, Rev. Father Charles Benedict]]
* [[/NAKAHAMA, Dr. Toichiro|NAKAHAMA, Dr. Toichiro]]
* [[/NAKAHASHI, Tokugoro|NAKAHASHI, Tokugoro]]
* [[/NAKAMUTA, Viscount|NAKAMUTA, Viscount]]
* [[/NAKANO, Buyei|NAKANO, Buyei]]
* [[/NAKONCHAISI, Prince of|NAKONCHAISI, Prince of]]
* [[/NAMURA, Taizo|NAMURA, Taizo]]
* [[/NANJO, Bunyu|NANJO, Bunyu]]
* [[/NANSON, William|NANSON, William]]
* [[/NAPIER, Hon. W. J.|NAPIER, Hon. W. J.]]
* [[/NAQUARD, Eugene, M. C. A.|NAQUARD, Eugene, M. C. A.]]
* [[/NARENDR, Raja, Lieut -Colonel Mom|NARENDR, Raja, Lieut -Colonel Mom]]
* [[/NASHIMOTO, Prince|NASHIMOTO, Prince]]
* [[/NATHAN, Ernest Julius|NATHAN, Ernest Julius]]
* [[/NATHAN, Sir Matthew|NATHAN, Sir Matthew]]
* [[/NATHAN, Major Walter Simeon|NATHAN, Major Walter Simeon]]
* [[/NA-T'UNG|NA-T'UNG]]
* [[/NAYEN'U, Prince|NAYEN'U, Prince]]
* [[/NEAL, Dr. James Boyd|NEAL, Dr. James Boyd]]
* [[/NEGSHI, Prof. Timothy Yoshitare|NEGSHI, Prof. Timothy Yoshitare]]
* [[/NEISH, Robert Davidson|NEISH, Robert Davidson]]
* [[/NEMOTO, Michiakira|NEMOTO, Michiakira]]
* [[/NESOM, G. E.|NESOM, G. E.]]
* [[/NEUBRONNER, Ernest Waller|NEUBRONNER, Ernest Waller]]
* [[/NEWLAND, Harry Osman|NEWLAND, Harry Osman]]
* [[/NEWMAN|NEWMAN]]
* [[/NEWMAN. Jesse Ford|NEWMAN. Jesse Ford]]
* [[/NG CHOY|NG CHOY]]
* [[/NIEH CHI-KUEI|NIEH CHI-KUEI]]
* [[/NIELSEN, Olaf|NIELSEN, Olaf]]
* [[/NIELSON, Andrew Bonar|NIELSON, Andrew Bonar]]
* [[/NISEI. General Baron Kwanjiro|NISEI. General Baron Kwanjiro]]
* [[/NISHI, Baron Tokujiro|NISHI, Baron Tokujiro]]
* [[/NISHIMURA, Katsuzo|NISHIMURA, Katsuzo]]
* [[/NITOBE, Inazo|NITOBE, Inazo]]
* [[/NIU-LENG-E, Lieut.-General|NIU-LENG-E, Lieut.-General]]
* [[/NOBLE, Lieut.-Commander Frederick B.|NOBLE, Lieut.-Commander Frederick B.]]
* [[/NOBLE, Dr. Joseph W.|NOBLE, Dr. Joseph W.]]
* [[/NOCH'INT'AI|NOCH'INT'AI]]
* [[/NODZU, General Count Michitsura|NODZU, General Count Michitsura]]
* [[/NOGI, General Baron Kiten|NOGI, General Baron Kiten]]
* [[/NOGUCHI, Shohin|NOGUCHI, Shohin]]
* [[/NOMA, Masaichi|NOMA, Masaichi]]
* [[/NOMURA, Viscount Yasushi|NOMURA, Viscount Yasushi]]
* [[/NORMAN, Rev. Daniel|NORMAN, Rev. Daniel]]
* [[/NORMAN, Henry|NORMAN, Henry]]
* [[/NORRIS-NEWMAN, Lt-Col. Charles L. W. M.|NORRIS-NEWMAN, Lt-Col. Charles L. W. M.]]
* [[/NORTHCOTE, Mowbray Stafford|NORTHCOTE, Mowbray Stafford]]
* [[/NOVAL, Rev. Francisco R.|NOVAL, Rev. Francisco R.]]
* [[/NO YES, Rev. Henry V.|NO YES, Rev. Henry V.]]
* [[/NUNN, Bernard|NUNN, Bernard]]
* [[/NYE, Percival H.|NYE, Percival H.]]
* [[/O'BRIEN-BUTLER, Pierce Essex|O'BRIEN-BUTLER, Pierce Essex]]
* [[/O'BRIEN, Frederick|O'BRIEN, Frederick]]
* [[/O'CONNELL, Hugues Eustache Joseph|O'CONNELL, Hugues Eustache Joseph]]
* [[/O-ERH-K'O-MU, General|O-ERH-K'O-MU, General]]
* [[/OGATA, Gekko|OGATA, Gekko]]
* [[/OGATA, Prof. Masanori|OGATA, Prof. Masanori]]
* [[/OGAWA, General Baron|OGAWA, General Baron]]
* [[/OIESEN, James Frederik|OIESEN, James Frederik]]
* [[/OISHI, Masami|OISHI, Masami]]
* [[/OKA, Genkei|OKA, Genkei]]
* [[/OKABE, Viscount|OKABE, Viscount]]
* [[/OKAMURA, Teruhiko|OKAMURA, Teruhiko]]
* [[/O'KELLY, Pierre|O'KELLY, Pierre]]
* [[/OKU, General Baron|OKU, General Baron]]
* [[/OKUDA, Yoshindo|OKUDA, Yoshindo]]
* [[/OKUMA, Count Shige-nobu|OKUMA, Count Shige-nobu]]
* [[/OKURA, Kihachiro|OKURA, Kihachiro]]
* [[/ONO, Kozan|ONO, Kozan]]
* [[/ONO, Kwokei|ONO, Kwokei]]
* [[/O-OKA, Ikuzo|O-OKA, Ikuzo]]
* [[/OLDORP, K|OLDORP, K]]
* [[/O-LO-CHING-O, Lieut. -General|O-LO-CHING-O, Lieut. -General]]
* [[/O-LO-CHUN, Lieut. General|O-LO-CHUN, Lieut. General]]
* [[/OMMANNEY, Captain Robert N.|OMMANNEY, Captain Robert N.]]
* [[/ORANGE, J.|ORANGE, J.]]
* [[/ORME, Geoffrey Norman|ORME, Geoffrey Norman]]
* [[/OSAKA, Bishop of|OSAKA, Bishop of]]
* [[/CSAWA, Prof. Kenji|CSAWA, Prof. Kenji]]
* [[/OSBORNE, Hon. Edward|OSBORNE, Hon. Edward]]
* [[/OSBORNE, James Henry|OSBORNE, James Henry]]
* [[/OSWALD, John C.|OSWALD, John C.]]
* [[/OTANI, Kahei|OTANI, Kahei]]
* [[/OTANI, Count Kokei|OTANI, Count Kokei]]
* [[/OTANI, Count Kozui|OTANI, Count Kozui]]
* [[/OTORI, Baron|OTORI, Baron]]
* [[/OTTEWILL, Herbert Allan|OTTEWILL, Herbert Allan]]
* [[/OUGH, Arthur Henry|OUGH, Arthur Henry]]
* [[/OURA, Kanetake|OURA, Kanetake]]
* [[/OUSTON, Geoffrey|OUSTON, Geoffrey]]
* [[/OUTREY, Ernest Amedee Antoine Georges|OUTREY, Ernest Amedee Antoine Georges]]
* [[/OWEN, John Fortescue|OWEN, John Fortescue]]
* [[/OYAMA, Marquis Marshal|OYAMA, Marquis Marshal]]
* [[/OYAMA, Tsunasuke|OYAMA, Tsunasuke]]
* [[/OZAKI,Yukio|OZAKI,Yukio]]
* [[/OZAKI, Baron Saburo|OZAKI, Baron Saburo]]
* [[/PAHANG, Sultan of|PAHANG, Sultan of]]
* [[/PAGET, Ralph Spencer|PAGET, Ralph Spencer]]
* [[/PAINTER, Major Arnaud Clarke|PAINTER, Major Arnaud Clarke]]
* [[/P'AN'HSIAO-SU|P'AN'HSIAO-SU]]
* [[/PARDON, Edward R. S.|PARDON, Edward R. S.]]
* [[/PARLANE, William|PARLANE, William]]
* [[/PARLETT. Harold George|PARLETT. Harold George]]
* [[/PARR, Cecil William Chase|PARR, Cecil William Chase]]
* [[/PARR, William Randall M'Donnell|PARR, William Randall M'Donnell]]
* [[/PARRY-JONES|PARRY-JONES]]
* [[/PART, Dr. John Shepley|PART, Dr. John Shepley]]
* [[/PATRICK, Dr. Henry Cowper|PATRICK, Dr. Henry Cowper]]
* [[/PEACOCK, Walter|PEACOCK, Walter]]
* [[/PEARCE, Rev. Thomas William|PEARCE, Rev. Thomas William]]
* [[/PEARSE, Dr. Wilfred William|PEARSE, Dr. Wilfred William]]
* [[/PEART, Dr. Stuart Patrick|PEART, Dr. Stuart Patrick]]
* [[/PEDLEY, Rev. Hilton|PEDLEY, Rev. Hilton]]
* [[/PEDLEY, Major Stanhope Humphrey|PEDLEY, Major Stanhope Humphrey]]
* [[/PEIRCE, Robert|PEIRCE, Robert]]
* [[/PENNEFATHER, Lieut. -Colonel Edward Graham|PENNEFATHER, Lieut. -Colonel Edward Graham]]
* [[/PENNEY, Clifford Ernest|PENNEY, Clifford Ernest]]
* [[/PENNEY, Hon. Frederick Gordon|PENNEY, Hon. Frederick Gordon]]
* [[/PENNEY, William Hughes|PENNEY, William Hughes]]
* [[/PENROSE, Frank Philip|PENROSE, Frank Philip]]
* [[/PERAK, Sultan of|PERAK, Sultan of]]
* [[/PEREIRA, Major George Edward|PEREIRA, Major George Edward]]
* [[/PEREIRA, M. C. Goncalvea|PEREIRA, M. C. Goncalvea]]
* [[/PERKINS, Thomas Luff|PERKINS, Thomas Luff]]
* [[/PETER, J. C.|PETER, J. C.]]
* [[/PETTEE, Dr. James H.|PETTEE, Dr. James H.]]
* [[/PFOUNDES, Capt. C. J. W.|PFOUNDES, Capt. C. J. W.]]
* [[/PHELIPS, Hugh Richard|PHELIPS, Hugh Richard]]
* [[/PHILLIPS, Thomas Morgan|PHILLIPS, Thomas Morgan]]
* [[/PIGOTT, Francis Joseph|PIGOTT, Francis Joseph]]
* [[/PIGGOTT, Sir Francis Taylor|PIGGOTT, Sir Francis Taylor]]
* [[/PINCKNEY, H.|PINCKNEY, H.]]
* [[/PITZIPIOS, George Demetrius|PITZIPIOS, George Demetrius]]
* [[/PLAYFAIR, Frank William Walter|PLAYFAIR, Frank William Walter]]
* [[/PLAYFAIR, George Macdonald Home|PLAYFAIR, George Macdonald Home]]
* [[/PLUMMER, John Isaac|PLUMMER, John Isaac]]
* [[/POATE, W. H.|POATE, W. H.]]
* [[/POKOTILOFF, M. D.|POKOTILOFF, M. D.]]
* [[/POLLOCK, Hon. Henry Edward|POLLOCK, Hon. Henry Edward]]
* [[/POLYGLASE, John|POLYGLASE, John]]
* [[/PONSONBY, Richard Arthur Brabazon|PONSONBY, Richard Arthur Brabazon]]
* [[/POST, Dr. Albert T.|POST, Dr. Albert T.]]
* [[/POST, Nicholas|POST, Nicholas]]
* [[/POTT, Rev. Francis Lister Hawks|POTT, Rev. Francis Lister Hawks]]
* [[/POTTS, W. H.|POTTS, W. H.]]
* [[/POUNTNEY, Arthur Meek|POUNTNEY, Arthur Meek]]
* [[/POZZONI, Rt. Rev. Bishop Dominico|POZZONI, Rt. Rev. Bishop Dominico]]
* [[/PRATT, Frederick Lionel|PRATT, Frederick Lionel]]
* [[/PRETRE, Charles Emile Pierre|PRETRE, Charles Emile Pierre]]
* [[/PRICE, Lieut-Col. Charles Henry Uvedale|PRICE, Lieut-Col. Charles Henry Uvedale]]
* [[/PRICE, Right Rev. Horace McCartie Eyre|PRICE, Right Rev. Horace McCartie Eyre]]
* [[/PRICE, William Thomas|PRICE, William Thomas]]
* [[/PRINGLE, Alfred Ernest|PRINGLE, Alfred Ernest]]
* [[/PRITCHARD, Major Clive Gordon|PRITCHARD, Major Clive Gordon]]
* [[/P'U-CHUN, Duke|P'U-CHUN, Duke]]
* [[/P'U-HSING|P'U-HSING]]
* [[/P'U-HSU, otherwise Prince Ting|P'U-HSU, otherwise Prince Ting]]
* [[/P'U-LUN, Prince|P'U-LUN, Prince]]
* [[/P'U-SHAN|P'U-SHAN]]
* [[/P'U-TING|P'U-TING]]
* [[/PUTNAM, George Rockwell|PUTNAM, George Rockwell]]
* [[/PYKETT, Rev. G. F.|PYKETT, Rev. G. F.]]
* [[/RADCLIFFE, Lieut. Charles Amyas|RADCLIFFE, Lieut. Charles Amyas]]
* [[/RAGSDALE, James W.|RAGSDALE, James W.]]
* [[/RAJA CHULAN bin, ex-Sultan Abdullah|RAJA CHULAN bin, ex-Sultan Abdullah]]
* [[/RAJKITCH, Phya Narisra|RAJKITCH, Phya Narisra]]
* [[/RALPHS, Edwin|RALPHS, Edwin]]
* [[/RAM, Edward A.|RAM, Edward A.]]
* [[/RAMKAMHENG, Major General Phya|RAMKAMHENG, Major General Phya]]
* [[/RAMSAY, William Leslie|RAMSAY, William Leslie]]
* [[/RANSOM, Dr. S. A.|RANSOM, Dr. S. A.]]
* [[/RATTENBURY, Rev. Harold Burgoyne|RATTENBURY, Rev. Harold Burgoyne]]
* [[/RAY, E. C.|RAY, E. C.]]
* [[/BEADY, Oliver George|BEADY, Oliver George]]
* [[/REES Lewis Charles|REES Lewis Charles]]
* [[/REID, George Elliott|REID, George Elliott]]
* [[/REIFSINDER Rev. Charles Shriver|REIFSINDER Rev. Charles Shriver]]
* [[/BEMEDIOS, Luiz Augusto Lopes|BEMEDIOS, Luiz Augusto Lopes]]
* [[/RENNIE, Alfred Herbert|RENNIE, Alfred Herbert]]
* [[/BENNIE, James Stuart Macready|BENNIE, James Stuart Macready]]
* [[/RENNIE, Dr. Thomas|RENNIE, Dr. Thomas]]
* [[/RIARIO, Count De Bondy-|RIARIO, Count De Bondy-]]
* [[/RICHARDSON, Edward Robert|RICHARDSON, Edward Robert]]
* [[/RICHARDSON, Thomas William|RICHARDSON, Thomas William]]
* [[/RIDDEL, Rev. William|RIDDEL, Rev. William]]
* [[/RIDGE. William Sheldon|RIDGE. William Sheldon]]
* [[/RIDLER. Rev. Herbert Buller|RIDLER. Rev. Herbert Buller]]
* [[/RIDLEY, Henry Nicholas|RIDLEY, Henry Nicholas]]
* [[/RIDOUX, Capt. C. X.|RIDOUX, Capt. C. X.]]
* [[/RIEVELEY, Charles|RIEVELEY, Charles]]
* [[/RIGBY, Rev. Arch Edward|RIGBY, Rev. Arch Edward]]
* [[/RITCHIE, Major John|RITCHIE, Major John]]
* [[/ROACH, Cornelius Edward|ROACH, Cornelius Edward]]
* [[/ROBERTS, James H.|ROBERTS, James H.]]
* [[/ROBERTSON, H. W.|ROBERTSON, H. W.]]
* [[/ROBERTSON, Dr. Thomas Murray|ROBERTSON, Dr. Thomas Murray]]
* [[/ROBINSON, Henry O.|ROBINSON, Henry O.]]
* [[/ROBINSON, Charles Surtees|ROBINSON, Charles Surtees]]
* [[/ROBSON, John Henry Matthews|ROBSON, John Henry Matthews]]
* [[/ROCKHILL, William Woodville|ROCKHILL, William Woodville]]
* [[/RODGERS, Dr. Jamss B.|RODGERS, Dr. Jamss B.]]
* [[/RODGERS. J. L.|RODGERS. J. L.]]
* [[/ROESE, Dr. George|ROESE, Dr. George]]
* [[/ROGGE, Carl Heinrich|ROGGE, Carl Heinrich]]
* [[/ROMANO, Agostinho Guilherme|ROMANO, Agostinho Guilherme]]
* [[/ROSS, Rev. John|ROSS, Rev. John]]
* [[/ROSS, O. B.|ROSS, O. B.]]
* [[/ROSS, Stewart Buckle Carne|ROSS, Stewart Buckle Carne]]
* [[/ROSTHORN, Dr. A. Von|ROSTHORN, Dr. A. Von]]
* [[/ROUZIER-JOLY|ROUZIER-JOLY]]
* [[/ROWLAND, Dr. George Miller|ROWLAND, Dr. George Miller]]
* [[/ROZA, Daniel da|ROZA, Daniel da]]
* [[/RUMJAHN, Ahmet|RUMJAHN, Ahmet]]
* [[/RUSSELL, Wilmot Peregrine Maitland|RUSSELL, Wilmot Peregrine Maitland]]
* [[/RUTLEDGE, Carl Clyde|RUTLEDGE, Carl Clyde]]
* [[/SA, or SAH, Admiral|SA, or SAH, Admiral]]
* [[/SA CHEN-PING, Admiral|SA CHEN-PING, Admiral]]
* [[/SAIONJI, Marquis Kinmochi|SAIONJI, Marquis Kinmochi]]
* [[/SAITO, Vice-Admiral Minoru|SAITO, Vice-Admiral Minoru]]
* [[/SAKATANI, Yoshiro|SAKATANI, Yoshiro]]
* [[/SAKUMA, Viscount General Samada|SAKUMA, Viscount General Samada]]
* [[/SALABELLE, Pierre Stephane|SALABELLE, Pierre Stephane]]
* [[/SA-LIEN|SA-LIEN]]
* [[/SALINGER, Frederick|SALINGER, Frederick]]
* [[/SANKEY, Lieutenant-Colonel Albert Robert|SANKEY, Lieutenant-Colonel Albert Robert]]
* [[/SARAWAK, Ra'ah of|SARAWAK, Ra'ah of]]
* [[/SASSA, Tomofusa|SASSA, Tomofusa]]
* [[/SATCHELL, Thomas|SATCHELL, Thomas]]
* [[/SATO, Susumu|SATO, Susumu]]
* [[/SAUNDERS, Charles J.|SAUNDERS, Charles J.]]
* [[/SAUNDERS, Rev. J. Roscoe|SAUNDERS, Rev. J. Roscoe]]
* [[/SAUNDERS, W. J.|SAUNDERS, W. J.]]
* [[/SAUSMAREZ, Sir Havilland Walter de|SAUSMAREZ, Sir Havilland Walter de]]
* [[/SAVORY, Captain Herbert W.|SAVORY, Captain Herbert W.]]
* [[/SCHARFF, Waiter|SCHARFF, Waiter]]
* [[/SCHILLER, Rev. Karl Emil|SCHILLER, Rev. Karl Emil]]
* [[/SCHOLES, Rev. Ernest F. P.|SCHOLES, Rev. Ernest F. P.]]
* [[/SCHOLZ, Dr. Curt|SCHOLZ, Dr. Curt]]
* [[/SCHROEDER, F.|SCHROEDER, F.]]
* [[/SCHULE, Otto|SCHULE, Otto]]
* [[/SCOTT, Rt. Rev. Charles Perry|SCOTT, Rt. Rev. Charles Perry]]
* [[/SCOTT, Rev. F. N.|SCOTT, Rev. F. N.]]
* [[/SCOTT, George D.|SCOTT, George D.]]
* [[/SCOTT, Henry George|SCOTT, Henry George]]
* [[/SCOTT, J. Gray|SCOTT, J. Gray]]
* [[/SCOTT, Rev. J. H.|SCOTT, Rev. J. H.]]
* [[/SCOTT, Walter Dare|SCOTT, Walter Dare]]
* [[/SCOTT, W. Murray|SCOTT, W. Murray]]
* [[/SCRANTON, Dr. William Benton|SCRANTON, Dr. William Benton]]
* [[/SCRIVENOR, John Brooke|SCRIVENOR, John Brooke]]
* [[/SEARLE, Rev. Gustavus|SEARLE, Rev. Gustavus]]
* [[/SEITZ, Carl Ludwig|SEITZ, Carl Ludwig]]
* [[/SELANGOR, Sultan of|SELANGOR, Sultan of]]
* [[/SELLAR, James|SELLAR, James]]
* [[/SELLS, H. C.|SELLS, H. C.]]
* [[/SENGE, Baron Tokatomi|SENGE, Baron Tokatomi]]
* [[/SETH, Arathoon|SETH, Arathoon]]
* [[/SETH, G. G.|SETH, G. G.]]
* [[/SEWELL, C. A. Seymour|SEWELL, C. A. Seymour]]
* [[/SEYMOUR, John Nicholson|SEYMOUR, John Nicholson]]
* [[/SEYMOUR, Dr. Walter Frederick|SEYMOUR, Dr. Walter Frederick]]
* [[/SHAM, His Highness Sir Idris Mersid-el- Aazam|SHAM, His Highness Sir Idris Mersid-el- Aazam]]
* [[/SHAN-CH'I|SHAN-CH'I]]
* [[/SHANG-CH'I-HENG|SHANG-CH'I-HENG]]
* [[/SHAO-CH'ANG|SHAO-CH'ANG]]
* [[/SHARP, Ernest Hamilton|SHARP, Ernest Hamilton]]
* [[/SHARP, Rev. Arthur Frederick|SHARP, Rev. Arthur Frederick]]
* [[/SHAW, Harry Redfearn|SHAW, Harry Redfearn]]
* [[/SHEFFIELD. Rev. Develloz|SHEFFIELD. Rev. Develloz]]
* [[/SHELFORD. Hon. William Heard|SHELFORD. Hon. William Heard]]
* [[/SHELLIM, E.|SHELLIM, E.]]
* [[/SHEN CHIA-TEN|SHEN CHIA-TEN]]
* [[/SHENG HSUAN-HUAI|SHENG HSUAN-HUAI]]
* [[/SHEPPARD, Dr. Walter Sidney|SHEPPARD, Dr. Walter Sidney]]
* [[/SHEWAN, Robert Gordon|SHEWAN, Robert Gordon]]
* [[/SHIBATA, Kamon|SHIBATA, Kamon]]
* [[/SHIH-HSU|SHIH-HSU]]
* [[/SHIH-TO|SHIH-TO]]
* [[/SHIMADA, Saburo|SHIMADA, Saburo]]
* [[/SHIMAMURA, Rear-Admiral Hayao|SHIMAMURA, Rear-Admiral Hayao]]
* [[/SHIMOSE, Masuchika|SHIMOSE, Masuchika]]
* [[/SHOEMAKER, Rev. Jonathan Evans|SHOEMAKER, Rev. Jonathan Evans]]
* [[/SHORROCK, Arthur Gostick|SHORROCK, Arthur Gostick]]
* [[/SHORTT, Rev. Charles Harper|SHORTT, Rev. Charles Harper]]
* [[/SHOU-YIN, Tartar General|SHOU-YIN, Tartar General]]
* [[/SHUM CHUN HSEN|SHUM CHUN HSEN]]
* [[/SHUSTER, W. Morgan|SHUSTER, W. Morgan]]
* [[/SIAM, King of|SIAM, King of]]
* [[/SIAM, Crown Prince of|SIAM, Crown Prince of]]
* [[/SIBBONS. J.|SIBBONS. J.]]
* [[/SIEBS. N. A.|SIEBS. N. A.]]
* [[/SIEMSSEN, Gustav Theodor|SIEMSSEN, Gustav Theodor]]
* [[/SILVERSTONE, Sholom|SILVERSTONE, Sholom]]
* [[/SIMONIN, Lieut-Colonel Ernest J.T.|SIMONIN, Lieut-Colonel Ernest J.T.]]
* [[/SIMSON. Lieut-Commander Geoffrey B. Spicer-|SIMSON. Lieut-Commander Geoffrey B. Spicer-]]
* [[/SINGAPORE, Bishop of|SINGAPORE, Bishop of]]
* [[/SKINNER, Charles James|SKINNER, Charles James]]
* [[/SKOTT, H.|SKOTT, H.]]
* [[/SKOTTOWE, A. B.|SKOTTOWE, A. B.]]
* [[/SLADE, Henry Adolphus Warre|SLADE, Henry Adolphus Warre]]
* [[/SLADE, Marcus Warre|SLADE, Marcus Warre]]
* [[/SLOAN, Dr. R. J.|SLOAN, Dr. R. J.]]
* [[/SLY, Henry Edward|SLY, Henry Edward]]
* [[/SMART, J. D.|SMART, J. D.]]
* [[/SMITH, Colonel Abiel Leonard|SMITH, Colonel Abiel Leonard]]
* [[/SMITH, Frank|SMITH, Frank]]
* [[/SMITH, Horace Percy|SMITH, Horace Percy]]
* [[/SMITH, J. Grant|SMITH, J. Grant]]
* [[/SMITH, J. R. M.|SMITH, J. R. M.]]
* [[/SMITH, John Langford|SMITH, John Langford]]
* [[/SMITH, Hon. Thomas Sercombe|SMITH, Hon. Thomas Sercombe]]
* [[/SMITH, William George|SMITH, William George]]
* [[/SONE, Baron Arasuke|SONE, Baron Arasuke]]
* [[/SOLLY, William John|SOLLY, William John]]
* [[/SONG ONG SIANG|SONG ONG SIANG]]
* [[/SOKODA, Baron Yasukata|SOKODA, Baron Yasukata]]
* [[/SOOTHILL, Rev. William Edward|SOOTHILL, Rev. William Edward]]
* [[/SOPER, Rev. Julius|SOPER, Rev. Julius]]
* [[/SOWERBY, Rev. Arthur|SOWERBY, Rev. Arthur]]
* [[/SOYEDA, Juichi|SOYEDA, Juichi]]
* [[/SPARHAM. Rev. Charles George|SPARHAM. Rev. Charles George]]
* [[/SPICER-SIMSON, Lieut-Commander|SPICER-SIMSON, Lieut-Commander]]
* [[/SPOONER, Charles Edwin|SPOONER, Charles Edwin]]
* [[/SPROULE, Percy Julian|SPROULE, Percy Julian]]
* [[/SQUIBBS, Dr. Walter|SQUIBBS, Dr. Walter]]
* [[/STANLEY, Rev. Charles A.|STANLEY, Rev. Charles A.]]
* [[/ST. CLAIR, William Graeme|ST. CLAIR, William Graeme]]
* [[/STEDMAN, Dr. Frederic Osmund|STEDMAN, Dr. Frederic Osmund]]
* [[/STEENBUCH, Rev. H. T. C.|STEENBUCH, Rev. H. T. C.]]
* [[/STELLE, Rev. William B.|STELLE, Rev. William B.]]
* [[/STEPHENSON, Prof. Edward Stantey|STEPHENSON, Prof. Edward Stantey]]
* [[/STEVENS, Frederick G.|STEVENS, Frederick G.]]
* [[/STEVENSON, Lieut. - Commander Ernest|STEVENSON, Lieut. - Commander Ernest]]
* [[/STEWART, Hon. Gershom|STEWART, Hon. Gershom]]
* [[/STEWART, Murray|STEWART, Murray]]
* [[/STILWELL, E. A.|STILWELL, E. A.]]
* [[/STOCKLEY, Captain Henry Hudson Fraser|STOCKLEY, Captain Henry Hudson Fraser]]
* [[/STOKOE, Edward Richmond|STOKOE, Edward Richmond]]
* [[/STRATTON, George Bernard|STRATTON, George Bernard]]
* [[/STRINGER, Charles Edward Wolfe|STRINGER, Charles Edward Wolfe]]
* [[/STRUCKMEYER, O.|STRUCKMEYER, O.]]
* [[/SU, Prince|SU, Prince]]
* [[/SUEN TSZ TING|SUEN TSZ TING]]
* [[/SUFU, Kimihira|SUFU, Kimihira]]
* [[/SUGDEN, Frederick Arthur|SUGDEN, Frederick Arthur]]
* [[/SUGI, Viscount Magshichiro|SUGI, Viscount Magshichiro]]
* [[/SUGIMURA, Fukashi|SUGIMURA, Fukashi]]
* [[/SUGIMURA, Toraichi|SUGIMURA, Toraichi]]
* [[/SUGITA, Tei-ichi|SUGITA, Tei-ichi]]
* [[/SULIEMAN BIN ALMERHOM, His Highness Rajah|SULIEMAN BIN ALMERHOM, His Highness Rajah]]
* [[/SUN CHA-NAI|SUN CHA-NAI]]
* [[/SUNDIUS, Ambrose John|SUNDIUS, Ambrose John]]
* [[/SUNG-KUEI, General|SUNG-KUEI, General]]
* [[/SUNG-SHOU|SUNG-SHOU]]
* [[/SUTER, Hugo|SUTER, Hugo]]
* [[/SUTTOR, John Bligh|SUTTOR, John Bligh]]
* [[/SUYEMATSU, Baron Kencho|SUYEMATSU, Baron Kencho]]
* [[/SWEET, Rev. W. S.|SWEET, Rev. W. S.]]
* [[/SWIFT, Prof. John Trumbull|SWIFT, Prof. John Trumbull]]
* [[/SWINDELL, Rev. Frank Guthrie|SWINDELL, Rev. Frank Guthrie]]
* [[/SYMONDS, Jermyn d'Arcy Travers|SYMONDS, Jermyn d'Arcy Travers]]
* [[/SYMONDS, William North|SYMONDS, William North]]
* [[/TAI HUNG-TZ'U|TAI HUNG-TZ'U]]
* [[/T'AI-PU|T'AI-PU]]
* [[/TAJIRI. Baron Inajiro|TAJIRI. Baron Inajiro]]
* [[/TAKAGI, Baron Kenkwan|TAKAGI, Baron Kenkwan]]
* [[/TAKAHASHI, Sninkichi|TAKAHASHI, Sninkichi]]
* [[/TAKAHIRA, Sir Kogoro|TAKAHIRA, Sir Kogoro]]
* [[/TAKAMICHI, Takeo|TAKAMICHI, Takeo]]
* [[/TAKASAKI, Baron Masakaze|TAKASAKI, Baron Masakaze]]
* [[/TAKASHIMA, Viscount Tomonosuke|TAKASHIMA, Viscount Tomonosuke]]
* [[/TAKATA, Sanai|TAKATA, Sanai]]
* [[/TALBOT, Captain Henry Lynch|TALBOT, Captain Henry Lynch]]
* [[/TALMA, Edwy L.|TALMA, Edwy L.]]
* [[/TANAKA, Viscount Fujimaro|TANAKA, Viscount Fujimaro]]
* [[/TANAKA, Viscount Mitsu-aki|TANAKA, Viscount Mitsu-aki]]
* [[/TANAKA, Shohei|TANAKA, Shohei]]
* [[/T'ANG CHIUNG|T'ANG CHIUNG]]
* [[/T'ANG SHAO-YI|T'ANG SHAO-YI]]
* [[/TANI, Viscount Tateki|TANI, Viscount Tateki]]
* [[/TANNER, Bertram|TANNER, Bertram]]
* [[/TATSUNO, Kingo|TATSUNO, Kingo]]
* [[/TAYLOR, Basil Reginald Hamilton|TAYLOR, Basil Reginald Hamilton]]
* [[/TAYLOR, Charles Henry Brewitt|TAYLOR, Charles Henry Brewitt]]
* [[/TAYLOR, Frederick Edward|TAYLOR, Frederick Edward]]
* [[/TAYLOR, Dr. F. Howard|TAYLOR, Dr. F. Howard]]
* [[/TAYLOR, Dr. Harry Baylor|TAYLOR, Dr. Harry Baylor]]
* [[/TAYLOR, William Sansom|TAYLOR, William Sansom]]
* [[/TAYLOR, Sir William Thomas|TAYLOR, Sir William Thomas]]
* [[/TEARLE, William|TEARLE, William]]
* [[/TENNEY, Charles D.|TENNEY, Charles D.]]
* [[/TERA-UCHI, Lieut. -Gen. Seiki|TERA-UCHI, Lieut. -Gen. Seiki]]
* [[/TERRY, Prof. Henry Taylor|TERRY, Prof. Henry Taylor]]
* [[/T'ET'USHEN|T'ET'USHEN]]
* [[/TEUSLER, Dr. Rudolf Bolling|TEUSLER, Dr. Rudolf Bolling]]
* [[/THANK THAI, King|THANK THAI, King]]
* [[/THOMAS, Lieut.-Commander Charles E. L.|THOMAS, Lieut.-Commander Charles E. L.]]
* [[/THOMAS, Christopher Boswood|THOMAS, Christopher Boswood]]
* [[/THOMAS, George Ernest Venning|THOMAS, George Ernest Venning]]
* [[/THOMSON, Hon. Alexander Macdonald|THOMSON, Hon. Alexander Macdonald]]
* [[/THOMSON, Dr. John Christopher|THOMSON, Dr. John Christopher]]
* [[/THOMSON, Oswald Dykes|THOMSON, Oswald Dykes]]
* [[/THOMSON, Rev. Robert Austin|THOMSON, Rev. Robert Austin]]
* [[/THOMPSON, Charles Carthew|THOMPSON, Charles Carthew]]
* [[/THORNICRAFT, Dr. Thomas Charles|THORNICRAFT, Dr. Thomas Charles]]
* [[/THORNTON, Maxwell Rethven|THORNTON, Maxwell Rethven]]
* [[/THORNTON, Swinford Leslie|THORNTON, Swinford Leslie]]
* [[/THURSBY, Captain Cecil F.|THURSBY, Captain Cecil F.]]
* [[/TICKELL, George Templer|TICKELL, George Templer]]
* [[/T'IEH-LIANG|T'IEH-LIANG]]
* [[/TILLEKE, William Alfred Goone|TILLEKE, William Alfred Goone]]
* [[/TILLET, Roch Auguste F.A.E.|TILLET, Roch Auguste F.A.E.]]
* [[/TILLOT, Marcel|TILLOT, Marcel]]
* [[/TING CHEN-TO|TING CHEN-TO]]
* [[/TODA, Count|TODA, Count]]
* [[/TOMI-I, Masa-akira|TOMI-I, Masa-akira]]
* [[/TOMITA. Tetsunosuke|TOMITA. Tetsunosuke]]
* [[/TOGO, Admiral Heihachiro|TOGO, Admiral Heihachiro]]
* [[/TOKUDAIJI. Marquis Sanenori|TOKUDAIJI. Marquis Sanenori]]
* [[/TOKUGAWA, Prince Iyesato|TOKUGAWA, Prince Iyesato]]
* [[/TOKUGAWA, Prince Keiki|TOKUGAWA, Prince Keiki]]
* [[/TOKUTOMI, Iichiro|TOKUTOMI, Iichiro]]
* [[/TOKYO, Bishop of|TOKYO, Bishop of]]
* [[/TOMIZU Hiroto|TOMIZU Hiroto]]
* [[/TOMKINS, Herbert Edmund|TOMKINS, Herbert Edmund]]
* [[/TOMLIN, G. L.|TOMLIN, G. L.]]
* [[/TONG KAISON|TONG KAISON]]
* [[/TOOKER, Hugh Pollock|TOOKER, Hugh Pollock]]
* [[/TOURS, Berthold George|TOURS, Berthold George]]
* [[/TOWNER, Harry V.|TOWNER, Harry V.]]
* [[/TOZER, Edgar Maber|TOZER, Edgar Maber]]
* [[/TRACEY, James F.|TRACEY, James F.]]
* [[/TRAVERS, Dr. Ernest Aston Otho|TRAVERS, Dr. Ernest Aston Otho]]
* [[/TRIPP, Henry John Howard|TRIPP, Henry John Howard]]
* [[/TROTTE, H. B. Noel Cortlandt|TROTTE, H. B. Noel Cortlandt]]
* [[/TRUEMAN, T. E.|TRUEMAN, T. E.]]
* [[/TRUMP, John|TRUMP, John]]
* [[/TSAI-CHEN|TSAI-CHEN]]
* [[/TSAI-FENG, General|TSAI-FENG, General]]
* [[/TSAI-HSUN, Duke|TSAI-HSUN, Duke]]
* [[/TS'AI HUI-CH'ANG|TS'AI HUI-CH'ANG]]
* [[/TSAI-TSE, Duke|TSAI-TSE, Duke]]
* [[/TSAI-YI|TSAI-YI]]
* [[/TSAI-YING, Prince|TSAI-YING, Prince]]
* [[/TS'AO HUNG-HSUN|TS'AO HUNG-HSUN]]
* [[/TS'EN CH'UN-HSUAN|TS'EN CH'UN-HSUAN]]
* [[/TSENG KUANG-CH'UAN|TSENG KUANG-CH'UAN]]
* [[/TSENG KUANG-HAN|TSENG KUANG-HAN]]
* [[/TSENG KUANG-LUAN, Marquis|TSENG KUANG-LUAN, Marquis]]
* [[/TSUBOUCHI, Yuzo|TSUBOUCHI, Yuzo]]
* [[/TSURAHARA, Osamu|TSURAHARA, Osamu]]
* [[/TSUNEHISA, Prince|TSUNEHISA, Prince]]
* [[/TSURUHARA, Teikichi|TSURUHARA, Teikichi]]
* [[/TSUZUKI, Keiroku|TSUZUKI, Keiroku]]
* [[/TUAN, Prince|TUAN, Prince]]
* [[/TUAN - FANG|TUAN - FANG]]
* [[/TUKE, Captain J. A.|TUKE, Captain J. A.]]
* [[/TUNGKU MOHAMED, His Highness|TUNGKU MOHAMED, His Highness]]
* [[/TURNER, Arthur|TURNER, Arthur]]
* [[/TURNER, Rt. Rev. Arthur Beresford|TURNER, Rt. Rev. Arthur Beresford]]
* [[/TURNER, Dr. G. Reynolds|TURNER, Dr. G. Reynolds]]
* [[/TURNER, Skinner|TURNER, Skinner]]
* [[/TUTCHER, William James|TUTCHER, William James]]
* [[/TUXFORD, Alfred Stanley|TUXFORD, Alfred Stanley]]
* [[/TWYMAN, Bertie|TWYMAN, Bertie]]
* [[/TYLER, William Ferdinand|TYLER, William Ferdinand]]
* [[/TZU-HSI, Dowager Empress of China|TZU-HSI, Dowager Empress of China]]
* [[/UCHIDA, Yasuya|UCHIDA, Yasuya]]
* [[/UME, Kenjiro|UME, Kenjiro]]
* [[/UNDERWOOD, Rev. Horace Grant|UNDERWOOD, Rev. Horace Grant]]
* [[/UNDERWOOD, Dr. Lillias Stirling|UNDERWOOD, Dr. Lillias Stirling]]
* [[/URYU, Vice-Adm. Sotokichi|URYU, Vice-Adm. Sotokichi]]
* [[/VACLE, Joseph|VACLE, Joseph]]
* [[/VAN BUREN, Joseph Sheffield|VAN BUREN, Joseph Sheffield]]
* [[/VAN CITTERS, Jonkheer A. J.|VAN CITTERS, Jonkheer A. J.]]
* [[/VAN DER BECK, Joseph Nicholas|VAN DER BECK, Joseph Nicholas]]
* [[/VAN HORN, Rev. G. W.|VAN HORN, Rev. G. W.]]
* [[/VANRENEN, Major Arthur Saunders|VANRENEN, Major Arthur Saunders]]
* [[/VASSAL, Dr. Joseph Marguerite Jean|VASSAL, Dr. Joseph Marguerite Jean]]
* [[/VASSEUR, Le|VASSEUR, Le]]
* [[/VAUGHANSMITH, Alice Mildred|VAUGHANSMITH, Alice Mildred]]
* [[/VAUGHANSMITH, W. H.|VAUGHANSMITH, W. H.]]
* [[/VENABLE, Dr. Wade Hampton|VENABLE, Dr. Wade Hampton]]
* [[/VENABLES, Major Edward Frederick|VENABLES, Major Edward Frederick]]
* [[/VENNING, Alfred Reid|VENNING, Alfred Reid]]
* [[/VENTRIS, Major-General Francis|VENTRIS, Major-General Francis]]
* [[/VICTORIA, Bishop Of|VICTORIA, Bishop Of]]
* [[/VINCENT, Rev. Howell Smith|VINCENT, Rev. Howell Smith]]
* [[/VINCI, Count G. V.|VINCI, Count G. V.]]
* [[/VOLPICELLI, Chev. Z.|VOLPICELLI, Chev. Z.]]
* [[/WADA, Hikojiro|WADA, Hikojiro]]
* [[/WAINRIGHT, Prof. Samuel Hayman|WAINRIGHT, Prof. Samuel Hayman]]
* [[/WAKEMAN, George Herbert|WAKEMAN, George Herbert]]
* [[/WALKE, Rev. Roger Atkinson|WALKE, Rev. Roger Atkinson]]
* [[/WALKER, Rev. Joseph Elkanah|WALKER, Rev. Joseph Elkanah]]
* [[/WALKER, Robert Sandilands Frowd|WALKER, Robert Sandilands Frowd]]
* [[/WALLACE, Rev. George|WALLACE, Rev. George]]
* [[/WALLER, Rev. John Gage|WALLER, Rev. John Gage]]
* [[/WALLICH, Edward Henry|WALLICH, Edward Henry]]
* [[/WALSH, Rev. W. S. Pakenham|WALSH, Rev. W. S. Pakenham]]
* [[/WALTER, James|WALTER, James]]
* [[/WANG WEN-SHAO|WANG WEN-SHAO]]
* [[/WAN MUHUMMAD SALLEH|WAN MUHUMMAD SALLEH]]
* [[/WANSEY, Rev. Henry Raymond|WANSEY, Rev. Henry Raymond]]
* [[/WARD, James|WARD, James]]
* [[/WARDROP, A.T.|WARDROP, A.T.]]
* [[/WARREN, Sir Pelham Laird|WARREN, Sir Pelham Laird]]
* [[/WATANABE, Baron Chiaki|WATANABE, Baron Chiaki]]
* [[/WATANABE, Viscount Kunitake|WATANABE, Viscount Kunitake]]
* [[/WATSON, Major C. J.|WATSON, Major C. J.]]
* [[/WATSON, Dr. James Russell|WATSON, Dr. James Russell]]
* [[/WATSON, Dr. Malcolm|WATSON, Dr. Malcolm]]
* [[/WATSON, Reginald George|WATSON, Reginald George]]
* [[/WATSON, Lieut.-Col. W. M.|WATSON, Lieut.-Col. W. M.]]
* [[/WATTS, Lieut. -Colonel Charles Newcomen|WATTS, Lieut. -Colonel Charles Newcomen]]
* [[/WEI YUK, Hon.|WEI YUK, Hon.]]
* [[/WELD, Frederick Joseph|WELD, Frederick Joseph]]
* [[/WELHAM, Herbert|WELHAM, Herbert]]
* [[/WEN TS'UNG YAO|WEN TS'UNG YAO]]
* [[/WERNER, Edward Theodore Chalmers|WERNER, Edward Theodore Chalmers]]
* [[/WEST, Dr. Benjamin Franklin|WEST, Dr. Benjamin Franklin]]
* [[/WEST, Charles Dickinson|WEST, Charles Dickinson]]
* [[/WESTWATER, Dr. A. Macdonald|WESTWATER, Dr. A. Macdonald]]
* [[/WHERRY, Prof. John|WHERRY, Prof. John]]
* [[/WHITE, Prof. Frank Johnstone|WHITE, Prof. Frank Johnstone]]
* [[/WHITING, Dr. Joseph L.|WHITING, Dr. Joseph L.]]
* [[/WHITEHEAD, Charles Basil|WHITEHEAD, Charles Basil]]
* [[/WHITMAN, Rev. George Ernest|WHITMAN, Rev. George Ernest]]
* [[/WHITNEY, Dr. Willis Norton|WHITNEY, Dr. Willis Norton]]
* [[/WHITTALL, Lieut.-Cclonel Francis Vaughan|WHITTALL, Lieut.-Cclonel Francis Vaughan]]
* [[/WHITTALL, James|WHITTALL, James]]
* [[/WHITTON, Rev. Robert Young|WHITTON, Rev. Robert Young]]
* [[/WHYTE, Dr. George Duncan|WHYTE, Dr. George Duncan]]
* [[/WICKHAM, William Henry|WICKHAM, William Henry]]
* [[/WILBER, David F.|WILBER, David F.]]
* [[/WILDER, Amos Parker|WILDER, Amos Parker]]
* [[/WILDER, Rev. George Durand|WILDER, Rev. George Durand]]
* [[/WILEMAN, Alfred Ernest|WILEMAN, Alfred Ernest]]
* [[/WILFORD, Francis Cuming|WILFORD, Francis Cuming]]
* [[/WILKIN, Commander Henry D.|WILKIN, Commander Henry D.]]
* [[/WILKINSON, Charles David|WILKINSON, Charles David]]
* [[/WILKINSON, Frederick Edgar|WILKINSON, Frederick Edgar]]
* [[/WILKINSON, Newman|WILKINSON, Newman]]
* [[/WILKINSON, Richard James|WILKINSON, Richard James]]
* [[/WILKINSON, William Henry|WILKINSON, William Henry]]
* [[/WILKS, E. C.|WILKS, E. C.]]
* [[/WILLIAMS, Arthur John|WILLIAMS, Arthur John]]
* [[/WILLIAMS, Commodore Hugh P.|WILLIAMS, Commodore Hugh P.]]
* [[/WILLIAMS, Rev. John Elias|WILLIAMS, Rev. John Elias]]
* [[/WILLIAMS, William Henry|WILLIAMS, William Henry]]
* [[/WILLS, Alexander William|WILLS, Alexander William]]
* [[/WILLIS, Robert|WILLIS, Robert]]
* [[/WILSON, Ernest Colville Collins|WILSON, Ernest Colville Collins]]
* [[/WILSON, Major Frederick Maurice|WILSON, Major Frederick Maurice]]
* [[/WILSON, G. Gordon|WILSON, G. Gordon]]
* [[/WILSON, William|WILSON, William]]
* [[/WINTERBURN, W. G.|WINTERBURN, W. G.]]
* [[/WISE, Alfred Gascoigne|WISE, Alfred Gascoigne]]
* [[/WISNER, Rev. C. F.|WISNER, Rev. C. F.]]
* [[/WODEHOUSE, Philip Peveril John|WODEHOUSE, Philip Peveril John]]
* [[/WOLFE, Edward Dudley Corscaden|WOLFE, Edward Dudley Corscaden]]
* [[/WOLFE, Samuel Williamson|WOLFE, Samuel Williamson]]
* [[/WOLFERSTAN, Littleton Edward Pipe|WOLFERSTAN, Littleton Edward Pipe]]
* [[/WOOD, Alexander George|WOOD, Alexander George]]
* [[/WOOD, David|WOOD, David]]
* [[/WOOD, John Roskruge|WOOD, John Roskruge]]
* [[/WOOD, William Alfred Rae|WOOD, William Alfred Rae]]
* [[/WOODBRIDGE, Rev. Samuel Isett|WOODBRIDGE, Rev. Samuel Isett]]
* [[/WOODCOCK, George Albert|WOODCOCK, George Albert]]
* [[/WOODD, Rev. Charles Hampden Basil|WOODD, Rev. Charles Hampden Basil]]
* [[/WOOD, Dr. Andrew H.|WOOD, Dr. Andrew H.]]
* [[/WOODWARD, Dr. Edmund Lee|WOODWARD, Dr. Edmund Lee]]
* [[/WOODWARD, Rev. Harry|WOODWARD, Rev. Harry]]
* [[/WOODWARD, Lionel Mabbott|WOODWARD, Lionel Mabbott]]
* [[/WORCESTER, Dean Conant|WORCESTER, Dean Conant]]
* [[/WORTHINGTON, Arthur Furley|WORTHINGTON, Arthur Furley]]
* [[/WRAY, Cecil|WRAY, Cecil]]
* [[/WRAY, Leonard|WRAY, Leonard]]
* [[/WREFORD. John Frederick|WREFORD. John Frederick]]
* [[/WRIGHT, Lieut. -Colonel George|WRIGHT, Lieut. -Colonel George]]
* [[/WRIGHT, George Henry Bateson.|WRIGHT, George Henry Bateson.]]
* [[/WRIGHT, Dr. James Martensz|WRIGHT, Dr. James Martensz]]
* [[/WRIGHT, Luke E.|WRIGHT, Luke E.]]
* [[/WRIGHTSON, Lieut. - Commander Charles A. W.|WRIGHTSON, Lieut. - Commander Charles A. W.]]
* [[/WUCH'UNG-HSI|WUCH'UNG-HSI]]
* [[/WUNSCH, Dr. Richard|WUNSCH, Dr. Richard]]
* [[/WU T'ING-FANG|WU T'ING-FANG]]
* [[/YAMAGATA, Marshal Marquis Aritomo|YAMAGATA, Marshal Marquis Aritomo]]
* [[/YAMAGATA, Isaburo|YAMAGATA, Isaburo]]
* [[/YAMAMOTO, Baron Admiral Gombei|YAMAMOTO, Baron Admiral Gombei]]
* [[/YAMAMOTO, Kametaro|YAMAMOTO, Kametaro]]
* [[/YAMAMOTO, Tatsuo|YAMAMOTO, Tatsuo]]
* [[/YAMASHINA, Prince|YAMASHINA, Prince]]
* [[/YANG SHIH-CH'I|YANG SHIH-CH'I]]
* [[/YANG TSUNG-LIEN|YANG TSUNG-LIEN]]
* [[/YANO, Jiro|YANO, Jiro]]
* [[/YASUHIRO, Ban-Ichiro|YASUHIRO, Ban-Ichiro]]
* [[/YEOMANS, S. Cecil|YEOMANS, S. Cecil]]
* [[/YERKES, Rev. Carroll Harvey|YERKES, Rev. Carroll Harvey]]
* [[/YERSEN, Dr. Alexander E. J.|YERSEN, Dr. Alexander E. J.]]
* [[/YIN-CH'ANG|YIN-CH'ANG]]
* [[/YOKURA, Lieut. -Colonel|YOKURA, Lieut. -Colonel]]
* [[/YOSHI-HITO, Prince|YOSHI-HITO, Prince]]
* [[/YOSHIKAWA, Viscount Akimasa|YOSHIKAWA, Viscount Akimasa]]
* [[/YOUNG, Alfred Ernest|YOUNG, Alfred Ernest]]
* [[/YOUNG, Hon. Captain Arthur H.|YOUNG, Hon. Captain Arthur H.]]
* [[/YOUNG, Robert|YOUNG, Robert]]
* [[/YUAN TA-HUA|YUAN TA-HUA]]
* [[/YU LANG|YU LANG]]
* [[/YUAN SHIH-K'AI|YUAN SHIH-K'AI]]
* [[/YUAN SHU-HSUN|YUAN SHU-HSUN]]
* [[/YU-CH'ENG-KO|YU-CH'ENG-KO]]
* [[/YUNG WING|YUNG WING]]
* [[/ZUMOTO, Motosada|ZUMOTO, Motosada]]

== Addenda ==
* [[/Addenda/ATLAY, Lieut-Commander Harold T.|ATLAY, Lieut-Commander Harold T.]]
* [[/Addenda/BAIN, George Murray|BAIN, George Murray]]
* [[/Addenda/BAROLI, Nob. C.|BAROLI, Nob. C.]]
* [[/Addenda/BARRETTO, Frederic Demee|BARRETTO, Frederic Demee]]
* [[/Addenda/ELLIS, Henry Disney|ELLIS, Henry Disney]]
* [[/Addenda/GRESSON, Hon. W. J.|GRESSON, Hon. W. J.]]
* [[/Addenda/HAYASHI, Gonsuke|HAYASHI, Gonsuke]]
* [[/Addenda/HAYASHI, Viscount Tadasu|HAYASHI, Viscount Tadasu]]
* [[/Addenda/HEWETT, Hon. Edbert Ansgar|HEWETT, Hon. Edbert Ansgar]]
* [[/Addenda/HUANG KAO|HUANG KAO]]
* [[/Addenda/HUDSON, Hon. H. H.|HUDSON, Hon. H. H.]]
* [[/Addenda/JONES, Frederic J.|JONES, Frederic J.]]
* [[/Addenda/NATHAN, Major Walter Simeon|NATHAN, Major Walter Simeon]]
* [[/Addenda/PALLIER, Charles Pierre|PALLIER, Charles Pierre]]
* [[/Addenda/P'ANG HUNG-SHU|P'ANG HUNG-SHU]]
* [[/Addenda/P'AN WAN-TS'AI|P'AN WAN-TS'AI]]
* [[/Addenda/PAO-FEN|PAO-FEN]]
* [[/Addenda/PAPON, Paul|PAPON, Paul]]
* [[/Addenda/PECK, Arthur Kenrieh|PECK, Arthur Kenrieh]]
* [[/Addenda/PEEL, William|PEEL, William]]
* [[/Addenda/PENNEFATHER, John Pyne|PENNEFATHER, John Pyne]]
* [[/Addenda/PENNEQUIN, General Theophile D. N.|PENNEQUIN, General Theophile D. N.]]
* [[/Addenda/PERKINS, Charles James|PERKINS, Charles James]]
* [[/Addenda/PEUX, Marie Serge Charles|PEUX, Marie Serge Charles]]
* [[/Addenda/PHILLIPS, P.|PHILLIPS, P.]]
* [[/Addenda/PHILLIPS, Walter MacFarlane|PHILLIPS, Walter MacFarlane]]
* [[/Addenda/PINKNEY, Robert|PINKNEY, Robert]]
* [[/Addenda/POLLACHI, Lieut.-Colonel Jean J.|POLLACHI, Lieut.-Colonel Jean J.]]
* [[/Addenda/POTTEP, Henry Yarley Deighton|POTTEP, Henry Yarley Deighton]]
* [[/Addenda/POUYMAYOU, Michel|POUYMAYOU, Michel]]
* [[/Addenda/PRATT, Edward|PRATT, Edward]]
* [[/Addenda/P'U-HSIEN|P'U-HSIEN]]
* [[/Addenda/P'U-WEI|P'U-WEI]]
* [[/Addenda/RAFFRAY, Francois Raoul|RAFFRAY, Francois Raoul]]
* [[/Addenda/REAY, James McCabe|REAY, James McCabe]]
* [[/Addenda/RENTIERS, John Baptist|RENTIERS, John Baptist]]
* [[/Addenda/RENY, Edmond|RENY, Edmond]]
* [[/Addenda/RICHAR, Colonel Joseph J.|RICHAR, Colonel Joseph J.]]
* [[/Addenda/RICHARDS, David Stanley|RICHARDS, David Stanley]]
* [[/Addenda/RIDGES, Henry Charles|RIDGES, Henry Charles]]
* [[/Addenda/RIERA, Don Luis de la Barrera|RIERA, Don Luis de la Barrera]]
* [[/Addenda/RIGBY, James|RIGBY, James]]
* [[/Addenda/RION, General Victor L.|RION, General Victor L.]]
* [[/Addenda/ROBINSON, Franklyn|ROBINSON, Franklyn]]
* [[/Addenda/RODESSE, Maurice|RODESSE, Maurice]]
* [[/Addenda/ROWLEY,ThomasWilliam|ROWLEY,ThomasWilliam]]
* [[/Addenda/RUSSELL, John|RUSSELL, John]]
* [[/Addenda/SAINTENOY, Fernand Louis|SAINTENOY, Fernand Louis]]
* [[/Addenda/SANDRE, Auguste Marie|SANDRE, Auguste Marie]]
* [[/Addenda/SANGUINETTI, William Roger|SANGUINETTI, William Roger]]
* [[/Addenda/SARWAR, Hafiz Ghulam|SARWAR, Hafiz Ghulam]]
* [[/Addenda/SASAKI, Count|SASAKI, Count]]
* [[/Addenda/SAVAGE, Victor Laurent|SAVAGE, Victor Laurent]]
* [[/Addenda/SCOTT, James|SCOTT, James]]
* [[/Addenda/SCOTT, Ralph|SCOTT, Ralph]]
* [[/Addenda/SECRETAN, Lieut.-Commander Edward|SECRETAN, Lieut.-Commander Edward]]
* [[/Addenda/SE-LENG-O, Lieut-General|SE-LENG-O, Lieut-General]]
* [[/Addenda/SE-P'U-CHENG-E, Tartar General|SE-P'U-CHENG-E, Tartar General]]
* [[/Addenda/SESTIER. Henri Victor|SESTIER. Henri Victor]]
* [[/Addenda/SEVERN, Cland|SEVERN, Cland]]
* [[/Addenda/SHAKU, Unsho|SHAKU, Unsho]]
* [[/Addenda/SHAO CHI-CHENG|SHAO CHI-CHENG]]
* [[/Addenda/SHAW, George Ernest|SHAW, George Ernest]]
* [[/Addenda/SHEFFIELD, John Newton|SHEFFIELD, John Newton]]
* [[/Addenda/SHELLEY, Malcolm Bond|SHELLEY, Malcolm Bond]]
* [[/Addenda/SHENG-YUN|SHENG-YUN]]
* [[/Addenda/SHIBA, Shiro|SHIBA, Shiro]]
* [[/Addenda/SHIBUSAWA, Baron Yei-ichi|SHIBUSAWA, Baron Yei-ichi]]
* [[/Addenda/SHIGENO, An-yeki|SHIGENO, An-yeki]]
* [[/Addenda/SHIH-NIEN-TSU|SHIH-NIEN-TSU]]
* [[/Addenda/SHIMAJI, Mokurai|SHIMAJI, Mokurai]]
* [[/Addenda/SHIMODA, Utako|SHIMODA, Utako]]
* [[/Addenda/SCHODA, Heigoro|SCHODA, Heigoro]]
* [[/Addenda/SHOU-CH'I, Capt.-General|SHOU-CH'I, Capt.-General]]
* [[/Addenda/SHOU-HSUN|SHOU-HSUN]]
* [[/Addenda/SIMLA, Gentaro|SIMLA, Gentaro]]
* [[/Addenda/SIMMONS, James William|SIMMONS, James William]]
* [[/Addenda/SIRCOM, Harold Sebastian|SIRCOM, Harold Sebastian]]
* [[/Addenda/SMITH - STEINMETZ, Gerard Archibald|SMITH - STEINMETZ, Gerard Archibald]]
* [[/Addenda/SMITH, Sydney Richard|SMITH, Sydney Richard]]
* [[/Addenda/SODA, Kinsaku|SODA, Kinsaku]]
* [[/Addenda/SOGA,Viscount Sukenori|SOGA,Viscount Sukenori]]
* [[/Addenda/SONODA. Kokichi|SONODA. Kokichi]]
* [[/Addenda/STAFFORD, George May|STAFFORD, George May]]
* [[/Addenda/STEADMAN. Vincent|STEADMAN. Vincent]]
* [[/Addenda/STEPHENS, Arthur Bligh|STEPHENS, Arthur Bligh]]
* [[/Addenda/STEVENSON, Alexander Meiu|STEVENSON, Alexander Meiu]]
* [[/Addenda/STONOR, Oswald Francis|STONOR, Oswald Francis]]
* [[/Addenda/STOKES, A. G.|STOKES, A. G.]]
* [[/Addenda/STONEY, Bowes Ormonde|STONEY, Bowes Ormonde]]
* [[/Addenda/SUGARS, John Charles|SUGARS, John Charles]]
* [[/Addenda/SUGI, Kyoji|SUGI, Kyoji]]
* [[/Addenda/SULUTAI, Lieutenant.-Genoral|SULUTAI, Lieutenant.-Genoral]]
* [[/Addenda/SUTER, William Chan|SUTER, William Chan]]
* [[/Addenda/SUMITOMO, Kichizaemon|SUMITOMO, Kichizaemon]]
* [[/Addenda/SUMNER, Henry|SUMNER, Henry]]
* [[/Addenda/SUN PAO CHI|SUN PAO CHI]]
* [[/Addenda/SUN SHIH TING|SUN SHIH TING]]
* [[/Addenda/SUZUKI, Tozaburo|SUZUKI, Tozaburo]]
* [[/Addenda/SWENEY, Edward|SWENEY, Edward]]
* [[/Addenda/SWETTENHAM, James Parry|SWETTENHAM, James Parry]]
* [[/Addenda/SWIFT, Joseph Arthur|SWIFT, Joseph Arthur]]
* [[/Addenda/TAKAGI,Toyozo|TAKAGI,Toyozo]]
* [[/Addenda/TAKAHASHI Sakuyei|TAKAHASHI Sakuyei]]
* [[/Addenda/TAKAMATSU, Toyokichi|TAKAMATSU, Toyokichi]]
* [[/Addenda/TAKAMURA, Ko-un|TAKAMURA, Ko-un]]
* [[/Addenda/TAKASHIMA. Kayemon|TAKASHIMA. Kayemon]]
* [[/Addenda/TAKETOMI, Tokitoshi|TAKETOMI, Tokitoshi]]
* [[/Addenda/TA-KUEI|TA-KUEI]]
* [[/Addenda/TALBOT, Frederic William|TALBOT, Frederic William]]
* [[/Addenda/TANABE, Sakuro|TANABE, Sakuro]]
* [[/Addenda/TANAKA, Gentaro|TANAKA, Gentaro]]
* [[/Addenda/TANAKADATE, Aikichi|TANAKADATE, Aikichi]]
* [[/Addenda/TANG CHING CHUNG|TANG CHING CHUNG]]
* [[/Addenda/TANG SHOU-MING|TANG SHOU-MING]]
* [[/Addenda/TEBBITT, Robert Theodore|TEBBITT, Robert Theodore]]
* [[/Addenda/TERAO, Hisasbi|TERAO, Hisasbi]]
* [[/Addenda/TERAO, Torn|TERAO, Torn]]
* [[/Addenda/TETART, Lieut-Colonel Georges L. A.|TETART, Lieut-Colonel Georges L. A.]]
* [[/Addenda/TEYUN, Lieut.-General|TEYUN, Lieut.-General]]
* [[/Addenda/THOMSON, Henry Wagstaffe|THOMSON, Henry Wagstaffe]]
* [[/Addenda/THORPE, William Peter|THORPE, William Peter]]
* [[/Addenda/THUREAU, Clement Desire Henri|THUREAU, Clement Desire Henri]]
* [[/Addenda/T'ING-CHIEH|T'ING-CHIEH]]
* [[/Addenda/TING T'I-CH'ANG|TING T'I-CH'ANG]]
* [[/Addenda/TOD, Logan|TOD, Logan]]
* [[/Addenda/TOURNE, Leon|TOURNE, Leon]]
* [[/Addenda/TOWNLEY, Edmund Francis|TOWNLEY, Edmund Francis]]
* [[/Addenda/TOYOKAWA, Ryohei|TOYOKAWA, Ryohei]]
* [[/Addenda/TS'AI CHUN|TS'AI CHUN]]
* [[/Addenda/TSAI-TA'O, Duke|TSAI-TA'O, Duke]]
* [[/Addenda/TSAI-YING, Lieut.-General|TSAI-YING, Lieut.-General]]
* [[/Addenda/TS'EN CH'UN-MING|TS'EN CH'UN-MING]]
* [[/Addenda/TSENG-CH'I, Tartar General|TSENG-CH'I, Tartar General]]
* [[/Addenda/TSENG KUANG YUNG|TSENG KUANG YUNG]]
* [[/Addenda/TSO HSIAO-T'UNG|TSO HSIAO-T'UNG]]
* [[/Addenda/TSBUOI, Shegoro|TSBUOI, Shegoro]]
* [[/Addenda/TSUJI, Shinji|TSUJI, Shinji]]
* [[/Addenda/TUNG FU-HSIANG, General|TUNG FU-HSIANG, General]]
* [[/Addenda/UNO, Dr. Hogara|UNO, Dr. Hogara]]
* [[/Addenda/UN-NO, Shomin|UN-NO, Shomin]]
* [[/Addenda/USHIBA, Takuzo|USHIBA, Takuzo]]
* [[/Addenda/VACHER, Joseph Marie Alfred|VACHER, Joseph Marie Alfred]]
* [[/Addenda/VALPY, George Cordy|VALPY, George Cordy]]
* [[/Addenda/VANE, Henry G. B.|VANE, Henry G. B.]]
* [[/Addenda/VANRENEN, Walter Campbell|VANRENEN, Walter Campbell]]
* [[/Addenda/VAUGHAN, Lieut. - Commander Robert E.|VAUGHAN, Lieut. - Commander Robert E.]]
* [[/Addenda/VELGE, C. E.|VELGE, C. E.]]
* [[/Addenda/VENNING, William Esaile|VENNING, William Esaile]]
* [[/Addenda/VIRGTTI, Lieut.-Col. Ignace P. S.|VIRGTTI, Lieut.-Col. Ignace P. S.]]
* [[/Addenda/VON DONOP, Lionel Brenton|VON DONOP, Lionel Brenton]]
* [[/Addenda/VOULES, Arthur Blennerhasset|VOULES, Arthur Blennerhasset]]
* [[/Addenda/WADA, Tsunashiro|WADA, Tsunashiro]]
* [[/Addenda/WADAGAKI, Kenzo|WADAGAKI, Kenzo]]
* [[/Addenda/WAKAO, Ippei|WAKAO, Ippei]]
* [[/Addenda/WANG CHIH CHUN|WANG CHIH CHUN]]
* [[/Addenda/WATASE, Shozaburo|WATASE, Shozaburo]]
* [[/Addenda/WALKER, Henry|WALKER, Henry]]
* [[/Addenda/WALKER, Henry James Noel|WALKER, Henry James Noel]]
* [[/Addenda/WAN MUHAMMAD ISA|WAN MUHAMMAD ISA]]
* [[/Addenda/WANG FU-HSIANG|WANG FU-HSIANG]]
* [[/Addenda/WARD, John Francis|WARD, John Francis]]
* [[/Addenda/WARNER, William Hamilton Lee|WARNER, William Hamilton Lee]]
* [[/Addenda/WATANABE, Viscount Noboru|WATANABE, Viscount Noboru]]
* [[/Addenda/WATASE, Torajiro|WATASE, Torajiro]]
* [[/Addenda/WAWN, John Twizell|WAWN, John Twizell]]
* [[/Addenda/WEI KUANG-TAO|WEI KUANG-TAO]]
* [[/Addenda/WEN-HAI|WEN-HAI]]
* [[/Addenda/WEN-JUI, General|WEN-JUI, General]]
* [[/Addenda/WENG TSENG-KUEI|WENG TSENG-KUEI]]
* [[/Addenda/WHITE, W. Arthur|WHITE, W. Arthur]]
* [[/Addenda/WHITLEY, Michael Henry|WHITLEY, Michael Henry]]
* [[/Addenda/WILLOUGHBY, Edward Digby|WILLOUGHBY, Edward Digby]]
* [[/Addenda/WINCKEL-MAYER, General Auguste G. J.|WINCKEL-MAYER, General Auguste G. J.]]
* [[/Addenda/WINSTEDT, Richard Olaf|WINSTEDT, Richard Olaf]]
* [[/Addenda/WOLFF, Ernest Charteris Holford|WOLFF, Ernest Charteris Holford]]
* [[/Addenda/YAMAKAWA, Kenjiro|YAMAKAWA, Kenjiro]]
* [[/Addenda/YAMASE, Shorn|YAMASE, Shorn]]
* [[/Addenda/YANG SHIH-HSIANG|YANG SHIH-HSIANG]]
* [[/Addenda/YANG SHOO|YANG SHOO]]
* [[/Addenda/YANO, Fumio|YANO, Fumio]]
* [[/Addenda/YASHIMA, Kajiko|YASHIMA, Kajiko]]
* [[/Addenda/YASUDA, Zenjiro|YASUDA, Zenjiro]]
* [[/Addenda/YEN CHIH|YEN CHIH]]
* [[/Addenda/YOKOI, Tokiyoshi|YOKOI, Tokiyoshi]]
* [[/Addenda/YOKOTA, Kuniomi|YOKOTA, Kuniomi]]
* [[/Addenda/YOSHINO, Seikei|YOSHINO, Seikei]]
* [[/Addenda/YOUNG, Robt. Heyden|YOUNG, Robt. Heyden]]
* [[/Addenda/YU HSIU (PEKING)|YU HSIU]]
* [[/Addenda/YU HSIU (NGANKIN)|YU HSIU]]
* [[/Addenda/YU HU-EN|YU HU-EN]]
* [[/Addenda/YU-KANG|YU-KANG]]
* [[/Addenda/YURI, Viscount Kinmasa|YURI, Viscount Kinmasa]]
* [[/Addenda/YU TAI|YU TAI]]

{{PD-US}}

[[Category:Who's Who in the Far East articles| ]]</text>
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    <title>Page:Who's who in the Far East, 1906-7, June (IA whoswhoinfareast00hongrich).pdf/80</title>
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&lt;section end=&quot;COLLINGE, Henry Bernard&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;COLLINS, Robert Moore&quot; /&gt;'''COLLINS, Robert Moore''' (PEKING), Journalist; b. Dec. 25, 1867, at Washington, D.C. Educ.: Middlebury College, Vermont, U.S.A. Reporter on the &quot;Washington Post,&quot; 1891-93; same, and editor of the Associated Press, Washington, and New York, to 1897; correspondent for the Associated Press in Europe to 1899; reported the Queen's Jubilee, London, 1897; and conference at which was negotiated Spanish-American peace treaty, Paris, 1898; chief correspondent for the Associated Press in the Philippines during Aguinaldo's insurrection, 1899-1900; was at engagement wherein General Lawton was killed at the capture of Malolos (Aguinaldo's capital) and saveral minor engagements; through the Boxer campaign, witnessing the battle at Tientsin and the relief of Peking; in Europe until Spring 1901, reporting the death of Queen Victoria, and the wedding of the Queen of Holland; correspondent for Renter's and the Associated Press at Peking, 1901 to 1904; organised Renter's service in the East for the Russo-Japanese War; with General Kuroki's army from the battle of the Yalu to the peace negotiations (except battle of Shaho). Address: Peking, China.
&lt;section end=&quot;COLLINS, Robert Moore&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;COLLYER, George Falconar&quot; /&gt;'''COLLYER, George Falconar''' (SHANGHAI), Assistant Secretary, Standard Life Assurance Company, Honorary Captain of H.B.M. Army; b. Aug. 1, 1872; m. G wendolyne Thorburn, d. of late R. K. Thorburn. Educ.: Privately, and on School Ship, &quot;Conway,&quot; Liverpool. Served in South African War, 1900; present at engagements at Alleman's Nek and Laing's Nek. Decoration: South African Medal (four clasps). Clubs: Golfers, London; Shanghai; Country, Shanghai. Address: 2, French Bund, Shanghai, China.
&lt;section end=&quot;COLLYER, George Falconar&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;COLMAN, Eugene Ernest&quot; /&gt;'''COLMAN, Eugene Ernest''' (SINGAPORE), B.A. Cantab.; Magistrate. Cadet, Straits Settlements, Oct., 1902; acting 4th Magistrate, Singapore, Oct., 1903; passed final examination in Malay. July, 1904. Address: Singapore, Straits Settlements.
&lt;section end=&quot;COLMAN, Eugene Ernest&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;COMTE, Colonel Gaspard M. L. A.&quot; /&gt;'''COMTE, Colonel Gaspard M. L. A.''' ( HANOI ), Commandant du 10e Regiment d'Infanterie Coloniale. Decoration: Officier de la Legion d'Honneur. Address: Hanoi, Tonkin, Indo-China.
&lt;section end=&quot;COMTE, Colonel Gaspard M. L. A.&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;CONDER, Prof. Josiah&quot; /&gt;'''{{uc|Conder}}, Prof. Josiah''' ({{sc|Tokyo}}), F.R.I.B.A., Emeritus Professor, Imperial University; ''b.'' Sept. 28, 1852. ''Educ.:'' Bedford Commercial School; took Harper’s £200 premium at Bedford School; took Soan medallion and travelling studentship at the Royal Institute of British Architects. Engaged as Professor of Architecture and practising architect by Imperial Public Works Department of Japanese Government in 1876; carried out many important public and private buildings; transferred to {{hws|Tempo|Temporary}}&lt;section end=&quot;CONDER, Prof. Josiah&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sm|60}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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&lt;section end=&quot;COLLINGE, Henry Bernard&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;COLLINS, Robert Moore&quot; /&gt;'''COLLINS, Robert Moore''' (PEKING), Journalist; b. Dec. 25, 1867, at Washington, D.C. Educ.: Middlebury College, Vermont, U.S.A. Reporter on the &quot;Washington Post,&quot; 1891-93; same, and editor of the Associated Press, Washington, and New York, to 1897; correspondent for the Associated Press in Europe to 1899; reported the Queen's Jubilee, London, 1897; and conference at which was negotiated Spanish-American peace treaty, Paris, 1898; chief correspondent for the Associated Press in the Philippines during Aguinaldo's insurrection, 1899-1900; was at engagement wherein General Lawton was killed at the capture of Malolos (Aguinaldo's capital) and saveral minor engagements; through the Boxer campaign, witnessing the battle at Tientsin and the relief of Peking; in Europe until Spring 1901, reporting the death of Queen Victoria, and the wedding of the Queen of Holland; correspondent for Renter's and the Associated Press at Peking, 1901 to 1904; organised Renter's service in the East for the Russo-Japanese War; with General Kuroki's army from the battle of the Yalu to the peace negotiations (except battle of Shaho). Address: Peking, China.
&lt;section end=&quot;COLLINS, Robert Moore&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;COLLYER, George Falconar&quot; /&gt;'''COLLYER, George Falconar''' (SHANGHAI), Assistant Secretary, Standard Life Assurance Company, Honorary Captain of H.B.M. Army; b. Aug. 1, 1872; m. G wendolyne Thorburn, d. of late R. K. Thorburn. Educ.: Privately, and on School Ship, &quot;Conway,&quot; Liverpool. Served in South African War, 1900; present at engagements at Alleman's Nek and Laing's Nek. Decoration: South African Medal (four clasps). Clubs: Golfers, London; Shanghai; Country, Shanghai. Address: 2, French Bund, Shanghai, China.
&lt;section end=&quot;COLLYER, George Falconar&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;COLMAN, Eugene Ernest&quot; /&gt;'''COLMAN, Eugene Ernest''' (SINGAPORE), B.A. Cantab.; Magistrate. Cadet, Straits Settlements, Oct., 1902; acting 4th Magistrate, Singapore, Oct., 1903; passed final examination in Malay. July, 1904. Address: Singapore, Straits Settlements.
&lt;section end=&quot;COLMAN, Eugene Ernest&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;COMTE, Colonel Gaspard M. L. A.&quot; /&gt;'''COMTE, Colonel Gaspard M. L. A.''' ( HANOI ), Commandant du 10e Regiment d'Infanterie Coloniale. Decoration: Officier de la Legion d'Honneur. Address: Hanoi, Tonkin, Indo-China.
&lt;section end=&quot;COMTE, Colonel Gaspard M. L. A.&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;CONDER, Prof. Josiah&quot; /&gt;'''[[Author:Josiah Conder (1852-1920)|{{uc|Conder}}, Prof. Josiah]]''' ({{sc|Tokyo}}), F.R.I.B.A., Emeritus Professor, Imperial University; ''b.'' Sept. 28, 1852. ''Educ.:'' Bedford Commercial School; took Harper’s £200 premium at Bedford School; took Soan medallion and travelling studentship at the Royal Institute of British Architects. Engaged as Professor of Architecture and practising architect by Imperial Public Works Department of Japanese Government in 1876; carried out many important public and private buildings; transferred to {{hws|Tempo|Temporary}}&lt;section end=&quot;CONDER, Prof. Josiah&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sm|60}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="3371" sha1="m9t7tit3ica26643olofte1ynaacowu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;TE(æ)A,ea.&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{uc|Who’s Who}} {{sc|in the}} {{sc|Far East}} ({{sc|June}}) 1906–7.|'''Coo'''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;CONDER, Prof. Josiah&quot; /&gt;{{hwe|rary|Temporary}} Imperial Palace Building Bureau in 1881, and afterwards to Home Department, where still holds position of Honorary Adviser in Architecture; Lecturer on Architecture at Imperial University, 1886–88; elected Emeritus Professor at the Imperial University in 1902; 1st Honorary President of the Society of Japanese Architects; honorary member of the Japanese Engineering Society. ''Decorations:'' 4th class order of Rising Sun, Japan; 3rd class order of Sacred Treasure, Japan. ''Publications:'' “The Floral Art of Japan”; “Landscape Gardening in Japan,” etc., etc. ''Address:'' 25, Mikawadai-machi, Azabu, Tokyo, Japan.

&lt;section begin=&quot;CONLAY, William Lance&quot; /&gt;
'''CONLAY, William Lance''' (KUALA LUMPUR), F.M.S. Civil Service; b. June 21, 1869. Joined service at Perak, 1893; acting junior officer; Ulu Pahang, 1897; acting District Officer, Temerloh, 1898; do., Kuantan, Oct., 1898; assistant District Officer at Rompin; District Officer at Kuantan, 1899; assistant commissioner of Police, Selangor, 1902; assistant commissioner of Police and Registrar of Criminals, Kuala Lumpur, 1906. Address: Kuala Lumpur, Selangor, Federated Malay States.
&lt;section end=&quot;CONLAY, William Lance&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;CONNOLLY, Dr. Richard Michael&quot; /&gt;
'''CONNOLLY, Dr. Richard Michael''' (KUALA LUMPUR), B.A., L.R.C.S., L.R.S.P., Edin.; F.M.S. Civil Service. Assistant Colonial Surgeon, Nov., 1892; Deputy Sheriff, Elmina, Feb., 1893; District Commissioner, Salt Pond, May-Oct., 1894; District Commissioner Chama Dixcove, June and July, 1895; Medical Officer to Frontier Boundary Commissioner, Nov., 1895. District Surgeon at Tapah, Gopeng, Batu Gajah, Larut, and Ipoh,. 1898-1933; Managing Director &quot; Times of Malaya,&quot; 1906. Address: Kuala Lumpur, Selangor, Federated Malay States.
&lt;section end=&quot;CONNOLLY, Dr. Richard Michael&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;COOK, Edward Arthur&quot; /&gt;
'''COOK, Edward Arthur''' (KUALA LUMPUR), Traffic manager, F.M.S. Railways; b. May 27, 18J9. Appointed Traffic Superintendent, Perak State Railways, 1892; present position since 1903. Address: Kuala Lumpur, Selangor, Federated Malay States.
&lt;section end=&quot;COOK, Edward Arthur&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;COOK, Rev. John Angus Bethune&quot; /&gt;
'''COOK, Rev. John Angus Bethune''' (SINGAPORE), Ministerial Missionary to Chinese, Presbyterian Church of England; b. Oct., 28, 1854; m. 1882 Jeanie, e. d. of James Henry. Educ.: Schools, Glasgow; Edinburgh University; Theological College, London. Visited Italy, 1872, shortly after liberation of that country; since 1882 has been in Straits Settlements, and Sultanate of Johore, except when on furlough in Europe, India, China Burma, and Ceylon; revisited Italy in 1904 during President Loubet'.s visit. Publications: Articles in local press and home magazines. Club: Foreign Missions, London. Address: Gilstead, Newton, Singapore, Straits Settlements.
&lt;section end=&quot;COOK, Rev. John Angus Bethune&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;COOPER, Rev. Albert Seth&quot; /&gt;
'''COOPER, Rev. Albert Seth''' (WUCHANG), B.A.; Priest in P.E. Church of America; b. Feb., 27, 1876. Educ.: Delaware College; General Theological Seminary. Curate at St. Mark's Church, 16th and Locust Sts., Philadelphia,
&lt;section end=&quot;CONDER, Prof. Josiah&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sm|61}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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&lt;section end=&quot;CONDER, Prof. Josiah&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;CONLAY, William Lance&quot; /&gt;
'''CONLAY, William Lance''' (KUALA LUMPUR), F.M.S. Civil Service; b. June 21, 1869. Joined service at Perak, 1893; acting junior officer; Ulu Pahang, 1897; acting District Officer, Temerloh, 1898; do., Kuantan, Oct., 1898; assistant District Officer at Rompin; District Officer at Kuantan, 1899; assistant commissioner of Police, Selangor, 1902; assistant commissioner of Police and Registrar of Criminals, Kuala Lumpur, 1906. Address: Kuala Lumpur, Selangor, Federated Malay States.
&lt;section end=&quot;CONLAY, William Lance&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;CONNOLLY, Dr. Richard Michael&quot; /&gt;
'''CONNOLLY, Dr. Richard Michael''' (KUALA LUMPUR), B.A., L.R.C.S., L.R.S.P., Edin.; F.M.S. Civil Service. Assistant Colonial Surgeon, Nov., 1892; Deputy Sheriff, Elmina, Feb., 1893; District Commissioner, Salt Pond, May-Oct., 1894; District Commissioner Chama Dixcove, June and July, 1895; Medical Officer to Frontier Boundary Commissioner, Nov., 1895. District Surgeon at Tapah, Gopeng, Batu Gajah, Larut, and Ipoh,. 1898-1933; Managing Director &quot; Times of Malaya,&quot; 1906. Address: Kuala Lumpur, Selangor, Federated Malay States.
&lt;section end=&quot;CONNOLLY, Dr. Richard Michael&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;COOK, Edward Arthur&quot; /&gt;
'''COOK, Edward Arthur''' (KUALA LUMPUR), Traffic manager, F.M.S. Railways; b. May 27, 18J9. Appointed Traffic Superintendent, Perak State Railways, 1892; present position since 1903. Address: Kuala Lumpur, Selangor, Federated Malay States.
&lt;section end=&quot;COOK, Edward Arthur&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;COOK, Rev. John Angus Bethune&quot; /&gt;
'''COOK, Rev. John Angus Bethune''' (SINGAPORE), Ministerial Missionary to Chinese, Presbyterian Church of England; b. Oct., 28, 1854; m. 1882 Jeanie, e. d. of James Henry. Educ.: Schools, Glasgow; Edinburgh University; Theological College, London. Visited Italy, 1872, shortly after liberation of that country; since 1882 has been in Straits Settlements, and Sultanate of Johore, except when on furlough in Europe, India, China Burma, and Ceylon; revisited Italy in 1904 during President Loubet'.s visit. Publications: Articles in local press and home magazines. Club: Foreign Missions, London. Address: Gilstead, Newton, Singapore, Straits Settlements.
&lt;section end=&quot;COOK, Rev. John Angus Bethune&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;COOPER, Rev. Albert Seth&quot; /&gt;
'''COOPER, Rev. Albert Seth''' (WUCHANG), B.A.; Priest in P.E. Church of America; b. Feb., 27, 1876. Educ.: Delaware College; General Theological Seminary. Curate at St. Mark's Church, 16th and Locust Sts., Philadelphia,
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      <comment>TE(æ)A,ea. moved page [[Who's Who in the Far East/CONDER, Prof. Josiali]] to [[Who's Who in the Far East/Conder, Prof. Josiah]]: Misspelled title</comment>
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{{User Unified}}
{{User Wikipedia}}
{{User Wikisource For|year=2021|month=05|day=06}}
{{#babel:en|de-2|es-2|fr-2}}
{{c|'''Awards for participation'''}}
{{userbox|id=[[File:Emily Dickinson writing a poem in her bedroom.jpg|40px]]|info={{c/s}}[[WS:POTM|Proofread of the Month&lt;br /&gt;April 2025]]&lt;br /&gt;Poetry Month{{c/e}}}}
{{userboxbottom}}

I guess the easiest thing to do is to look at my description on [[w:User:Tcr25|English Wikipedia]] ...

I'm generally following my wikisquirrel nature and working on texts in a random manner. A few, like the Bouligny pieces, are connected to my editing on Wikipedia. Others are jumping from a mention in one text to another text to another; for example, the quoting of a R.S. Chilton poem in M.E.P. Bouligny's [[A Tribute to W. W. Corcoran, of Washington City|book about W.W. Corcoran]] led me to Chilton's ''[[Poems (Chilton, 1885)|Poems]]'', which led me to ''[[The Knickerbocker Gallery]]'' and ''[[The Knickerbocker]]''. Similarly, a mention of Skinner in Dunbar's poem &quot;[[The Complete Poems of Paul Laurence Dunbar/Black Samson Of Brandywine|Black Samson of Brandywine]]&quot; led me to his ''[[Myths and Legends of Our Own Land|Myths &amp; Legends]]'' series.

Most of these (predominately) 19th century works have problematic elements in regards to race, ethnicity, gender, etc., but those flaws help illustrate the times in which they were written and the nature of society: both how much it has changed since then and, in many cases, how unfortunately little we've changed.

==Works added==
* [[A Discourse Concerning the Design'd Establishment of a New Colony to the South of Carolina|A Discourse Concerning the Design'd Establishment of a New Colony to the South of Carolina, in the Most Delightful Country of the Universe]] (1717), by [[Author:Robert Montgomery (1680–1731)|Robert Montgomery]]
* [[Proposals for the Speedy Settlement of the Waste and Unappropriated Lands on the Western Frontiers of the State of New-York]] (1785), by [[Author:Christopher Colles|Christopher Colles]]
* {{flagicon no name|France}} [[:fr:Proclamation, au Nom de la République Française, Laussat, Préfect Colonial, aux Louisianais|Proclamation, au Nom de la République Française, Laussat, Préfect Colonial, aux Louisianais]] (1803), by [[:fr:Auteur:Pierre-Clément de Laussat|Pierre-Clément de Laussat]]
** [[File:Noun Project translation icon 24074 cc.svg|25px]] [[Translation:Proclamation, in the name of the French Republic. Colonial Prefect Laussat to Louisianians|Proclamation, in the name of the French Republic. Colonial Prefect Laussat to Louisianians]] ({{smaller|original translation}})
* [[Red Jacket on the Religion of the White Man and the Red]] (1805), by [[Author:Sagoyewatha|Sagoyewatha]]
* ''[[Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena]]'' (1844), by [[Author:Lucia Elizabeth Balcombe Abell|Elizabeth Balcombe Abell]]
* ''[['Way Down East; or, Portraitures of Yankee Life]]'' (1854), by [[Author:Seba Smith|Seba Smith]]
* ''[[The Knickerbocker Gallery]]'' (1855)
** [[File:Noun Project translation icon 24074 cc.svg|25px]] &quot;[[Translation:The Knickerbocker Gallery/Ad Fontium Nymphas|To the Nymphs of the Fountain]]&quot;, by [[Author:Charles Astor Bristed|Charles Astor Bristed]] ({{smaller|original translation}})
* &quot;[[Report of Cases Decided in the Court of Queen's Bench/Volume 20/In the Matter of John Anderson|''Ex parte'' Anderson]]&quot; (1860), decided in the Upper Canada Court of Queen's Bench
* [[Remarks of Hon. J. E. Bouligny, on the Secession of Louisiana]] (1861), by [[Author:John Edward Bouligny|Hon. J.E. Bouligny]]
* &quot;[[What Is Unconditional Unionism?]]&quot; (1863), by [[Author:Michael Hahn|Hon. Michael Hahn]]
* ''[[Brazil and Brazilian Society]]'' (1864), by [[Author:Adolphe d'Assier|Adolphe d'Assier]] ({{smaller|translated by [[Author:Asher Hall|Asher Hall]]}})

* &quot;[[Ex-Governor Hahn on Louisiana Legislation Relating to Freedmen]]&quot; (1866), by [[Author:Michael Hahn|Gov. Michael Hahn]]
* ''[[A Tribute to W. W. Corcoran, of Washington City]]'' (1874), by [[Author:Mary Elizabeth Parker Bouligny|M.E.P. Bouligny]]
* ''[[Nine Years a Captive|Nine Years a Captive, or, John Gyles' Experience Among the Malicite Indians, from 1689 to 1698]]'' (1875), by [[Author:John Gyles|John Gyles]]; &quot;Introduction and Historical Notes&quot; by [[Author:James Hannay (1842–1910)|James Hannay]]
* ''[[Confessions of an English Hachish-Eater]]'' (1884), by Anonymous {{smaller|(credited to [[Author:William Laird Clowes|William Laird Clowes]])}}
* ''[[Poems (Chilton, 1885)|Poems]]'' (1885), by [[Author:Robert S. Chilton|Robert S. Chilton]]
* &quot;[[Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society/Volume 22/Number 120/The Aruba Language and the Papiamento Jargon|The Aruba Language and the Papiamento Jargon]]&quot; (1885), by [[Author:Albert Samuel Gatschet|Albert S. Gatschet]]
* [[Memorial Addresses on the Life and Character of Michael Hahn of Louisiana]] (1886) {{mdash}} Speeches by members of the Forty-Ninth Congress
* &quot;[[Reasons Why We Are Galilean Fishermen]]&quot; (1886), by [[Author:Thomas I. Hall|Thomas I. Hall]]
* ''[[Posthumous Humanity: A Study of Phantoms]]'' (1887), by [[Author:Adolphe d'Assier|Adolphe d'Assier]] ({{smaller|translated by [[Author:Henry Steel Olcott|Henry Steel Olcott]]}})
* &quot;[[The Navassa Island Riot]]&quot; (1889), by [[Author:Thomas I. Hall|Thomas I. Hall]] and [[Author:Colombus Gordon|Colombus Gordon]]
* ''[[Canada and the Canadian Question]]'' (1891), by [[Author:Goldwin Smith|Goldwin Smith]]
* &quot;[[The Whip-poor-will as Named in American Languages]]&quot; (1896), by [[Author:Albert Samuel Gatschet|Albert S. Gatschet]]
* ''[[Myths and Legends of Our Own Land]]'' (1896), by [[Author:Charles Montgomery Skinner|Charles M. Skinner]]&lt;br/&gt;
{{flatlist|indent=2|
* [[Myths and Legends of Our Own Land/Volume 1|Volume I]]
* [[Myths and Legends of Our Own Land/Volume 2|Volume II]]
}}
* ''[[Nature in a City Yard]]'' (1897), by [[Author:Charles Montgomery Skinner|Charles M. Skinner]]
* ''[[Canada: A Metrical Story]]'' (1897), by [[Author:Charles Campbell (fl. 1900)|Charles Campbell]]f
* ''[[The Uncalled]]'' (1898), by [[Author:Paul Laurence Dunbar|Paul Laurence Dunbar]]
* ''[[Myths and Legends Beyond Our Borders]]'' (1899), by [[Author:Charles Montgomery Skinner|Charles M. Skinner]]
* ''[[The Sport of the Gods]]'' (1902), by [[Author:Paul Laurence Dunbar|Paul Laurence Dunbar]]
* ''[[The Fanatics]]'' (1902), by [[Author:Paul Laurence Dunbar|Paul Laurence Dunbar]]
* &quot;[[The Tunnel Between Prince Edward Island and the Mainland]]&quot; (1905), by [[Author:Alfred Edward Burke|A. E. Burke]]
* ''[[The Story of the Golden Fleece]]'' (1908), by [[Author:Andrew Lang|Andrew Lang]] ({{smaller|illus. [[Author:Mills Thompson|Mills Thompson]]}})
* ''[[Placido: A Cuban Martyr]]'' (1910), by [[Author:Arturo Alfonso Schomburg|Arturo Alfonso Schomburg]]</text>
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{{User Unified}}
{{User Wikipedia}}
{{User Wikisource For|year=2021|month=05|day=06}}
{{#babel:en|de-2|es-2|fr-2}}
{{c|'''Awards for participation'''}}
{{userbox|id=[[File:Emily Dickinson writing a poem in her bedroom.jpg|40px]]|info={{c/s}}[[WS:POTM|Proofread of the Month&lt;br /&gt;April 2025]]&lt;br /&gt;Poetry Month{{c/e}}}}
{{userboxbottom}}

I guess the easiest thing to do is to look at my description on [[w:User:Tcr25|English Wikipedia]] ...

I'm generally following my wikisquirrel nature and working on texts in a random manner. A few, like the Bouligny pieces, are connected to my editing on Wikipedia. Others are jumping from a mention in one text to another text to another; for example, the quoting of a R.S. Chilton poem in M.E.P. Bouligny's [[A Tribute to W. W. Corcoran, of Washington City|book about W.W. Corcoran]] led me to Chilton's ''[[Poems (Chilton, 1885)|Poems]]'', which led me to ''[[The Knickerbocker Gallery]]'' and ''[[The Knickerbocker]]''. Similarly, a mention of Skinner in Dunbar's poem &quot;[[The Complete Poems of Paul Laurence Dunbar/Black Samson Of Brandywine|Black Samson of Brandywine]]&quot; led me to his ''[[Myths and Legends of Our Own Land|Myths &amp; Legends]]'' series.

Most of these (predominately) 19th century works have problematic elements in regards to race, ethnicity, gender, etc., but those flaws help illustrate the times in which they were written and the nature of society: both how much it has changed since then and, in many cases, how unfortunately little we've changed.

==Works added==
* [[Proposals for the Speedy Settlement of the Waste and Unappropriated Lands on the Western Frontiers of the State of New-York]] (1785), by [[Author:Christopher Colles|Christopher Colles]]
* {{flagicon no name|France}} [[:fr:Proclamation, au Nom de la République Française, Laussat, Préfect Colonial, aux Louisianais|Proclamation, au Nom de la République Française, Laussat, Préfect Colonial, aux Louisianais]] (1803), by [[:fr:Auteur:Pierre-Clément de Laussat|Pierre-Clément de Laussat]]
** [[File:Noun Project translation icon 24074 cc.svg|25px]] [[Translation:Proclamation, in the name of the French Republic. Colonial Prefect Laussat to Louisianians|Proclamation, in the name of the French Republic. Colonial Prefect Laussat to Louisianians]] ({{smaller|original translation}})
* [[Red Jacket on the Religion of the White Man and the Red]] (1805), by [[Author:Sagoyewatha|Sagoyewatha]]
* [[A Discourse Concerning the Design'd Establishment of a New Colony to the South of Carolina|A Discourse Concerning the Design'd Establishment of a New Colony to the South of Carolina, in the Most Delightful Country of the Universe]] (1835), by [[Author:Robert Montgomery (1680–1731)|Robert Montgomery]]
* ''[[Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena]]'' (1844), by [[Author:Lucia Elizabeth Balcombe Abell|Elizabeth Balcombe Abell]]
* ''[['Way Down East; or, Portraitures of Yankee Life]]'' (1854), by [[Author:Seba Smith|Seba Smith]]
* ''[[The Knickerbocker Gallery]]'' (1855)
** [[File:Noun Project translation icon 24074 cc.svg|25px]] &quot;[[Translation:The Knickerbocker Gallery/Ad Fontium Nymphas|To the Nymphs of the Fountain]]&quot;, by [[Author:Charles Astor Bristed|Charles Astor Bristed]] ({{smaller|original translation}})
* &quot;[[Report of Cases Decided in the Court of Queen's Bench/Volume 20/In the Matter of John Anderson|''Ex parte'' Anderson]]&quot; (1860), decided in the Upper Canada Court of Queen's Bench
* [[Remarks of Hon. J. E. Bouligny, on the Secession of Louisiana]] (1861), by [[Author:John Edward Bouligny|Hon. J.E. Bouligny]]
* &quot;[[What Is Unconditional Unionism?]]&quot; (1863), by [[Author:Michael Hahn|Hon. Michael Hahn]]
* ''[[Brazil and Brazilian Society]]'' (1864), by [[Author:Adolphe d'Assier|Adolphe d'Assier]] ({{smaller|translated by [[Author:Asher Hall|Asher Hall]]}})

* &quot;[[Ex-Governor Hahn on Louisiana Legislation Relating to Freedmen]]&quot; (1866), by [[Author:Michael Hahn|Gov. Michael Hahn]]
* ''[[A Tribute to W. W. Corcoran, of Washington City]]'' (1874), by [[Author:Mary Elizabeth Parker Bouligny|M.E.P. Bouligny]]
* ''[[Nine Years a Captive|Nine Years a Captive, or, John Gyles' Experience Among the Malicite Indians, from 1689 to 1698]]'' (1875), by [[Author:John Gyles|John Gyles]]; &quot;Introduction and Historical Notes&quot; by [[Author:James Hannay (1842–1910)|James Hannay]]
* ''[[Confessions of an English Hachish-Eater]]'' (1884), by Anonymous {{smaller|(credited to [[Author:William Laird Clowes|William Laird Clowes]])}}
* ''[[Poems (Chilton, 1885)|Poems]]'' (1885), by [[Author:Robert S. Chilton|Robert S. Chilton]]
* &quot;[[Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society/Volume 22/Number 120/The Aruba Language and the Papiamento Jargon|The Aruba Language and the Papiamento Jargon]]&quot; (1885), by [[Author:Albert Samuel Gatschet|Albert S. Gatschet]]
* [[Memorial Addresses on the Life and Character of Michael Hahn of Louisiana]] (1886) {{mdash}} Speeches by members of the Forty-Ninth Congress
* &quot;[[Reasons Why We Are Galilean Fishermen]]&quot; (1886), by [[Author:Thomas I. Hall|Thomas I. Hall]]
* ''[[Posthumous Humanity: A Study of Phantoms]]'' (1887), by [[Author:Adolphe d'Assier|Adolphe d'Assier]] ({{smaller|translated by [[Author:Henry Steel Olcott|Henry Steel Olcott]]}})
* &quot;[[The Navassa Island Riot]]&quot; (1889), by [[Author:Thomas I. Hall|Thomas I. Hall]] and [[Author:Colombus Gordon|Colombus Gordon]]
* ''[[Canada and the Canadian Question]]'' (1891), by [[Author:Goldwin Smith|Goldwin Smith]]
* &quot;[[The Whip-poor-will as Named in American Languages]]&quot; (1896), by [[Author:Albert Samuel Gatschet|Albert S. Gatschet]]
* ''[[Myths and Legends of Our Own Land]]'' (1896), by [[Author:Charles Montgomery Skinner|Charles M. Skinner]]&lt;br/&gt;
{{flatlist|indent=2|
* [[Myths and Legends of Our Own Land/Volume 1|Volume I]]
* [[Myths and Legends of Our Own Land/Volume 2|Volume II]]
}}
* ''[[Nature in a City Yard]]'' (1897), by [[Author:Charles Montgomery Skinner|Charles M. Skinner]]
* ''[[Canada: A Metrical Story]]'' (1897), by [[Author:Charles Campbell (fl. 1900)|Charles Campbell]]f
* ''[[The Uncalled]]'' (1898), by [[Author:Paul Laurence Dunbar|Paul Laurence Dunbar]]
* ''[[Myths and Legends Beyond Our Borders]]'' (1899), by [[Author:Charles Montgomery Skinner|Charles M. Skinner]]
* ''[[The Sport of the Gods]]'' (1902), by [[Author:Paul Laurence Dunbar|Paul Laurence Dunbar]]
* ''[[The Fanatics]]'' (1902), by [[Author:Paul Laurence Dunbar|Paul Laurence Dunbar]]
* &quot;[[The Tunnel Between Prince Edward Island and the Mainland]]&quot; (1905), by [[Author:Alfred Edward Burke|A. E. Burke]]
* ''[[The Story of the Golden Fleece]]'' (1908), by [[Author:Andrew Lang|Andrew Lang]] ({{smaller|illus. [[Author:Mills Thompson|Mills Thompson]]}})
* ''[[Placido: A Cuban Martyr]]'' (1910), by [[Author:Arturo Alfonso Schomburg|Arturo Alfonso Schomburg]]</text>
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    <title>Page:Frontinus - The stratagems, and, the aqueducts of Rome (Bennet et al 1925).djvu/53</title>
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      <id>15132105</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Amphipolis</username>
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      <comment>added note</comment>
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      <text bytes="1869" sha1="qck1lzp5q40vb9ddjua5ks72h5aq6u9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Amphipolis&quot; /&gt;{{running header||{{uc|Stratagems}}, I |}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Preface&quot; /&gt;If there prove to be any persons who take an interest in these books, let them remember to discriminate between &quot;strategy&quot; and &quot;stratagems,&quot; which are by nature extremely similar. For everything achieved by a commander, be it characterized by foresight, advantage, enterprise, or resolution, will belong under the head of &quot;strategy,&quot; while those things which fall under some special type of these will be &quot;stratagems.&quot; The essential characteristic of the latter, resting, as it does, on skill and cleverness, is effective quite as much when the enemy is to be evaded as when he is to be crushed. Since in this field certain striking results have been produced by speeches, I have set down examples of these also, as well as of deeds.&lt;ref&gt;''This paragraph is regarded by modern critics as interpolated. See Introduction, [[Loeb_Classical_Library/L174/Life_and_Works#xxiv|p. xxiv.]]''&lt;/ref&gt;

Types of stratagems for the guidance of a commander in matters to be attended to before battle:

{{Ordered list |list_style_type=upper-roman |[[#E.I.I|On concealing one's plans.]] |[[#E.I.II|On finding out the enemy's plans.]] |[[#E.I.III|On determining the character of the war.]]|[[#E.I.IV|On leading an army through places infested by the enemy.]]|[[#E.I.V|On escaping from difficult situations.]]|[[#E.I.VI|On laying and meeting ambushes while on the march.]]|[[#E.I.VII|How to conceal the absence of the things we lack, or to supply substitutes for them.]]|[[#E.I.VIII|On distracting the attention of the enemy.]]|[[#E.I.IX|On quelling a mutiny of soldiers.]]|[[#E.I.X|How to check an unseasonable demand for battle.]]|[[#E.I.XI|How to arouse an army's enthusiasm for battle.]]|[[#E.I.XII|On dispelling the fears inspired in soldiers by adverse omens.]]}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Preface&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
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    <title>Page:Frontinus - The stratagems, and, the aqueducts of Rome (Bennet et al 1925).djvu/57</title>
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      <text bytes="1966" sha1="pqo1c0oc9s9szn3uqjdo8pmz2jo47i6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Amphipolis&quot; /&gt;{{running header||{{uc|Stratagems}}, I. {{sc|i.}} 4-6 |}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;answer, reported to the young Tarquin what he had seen his father doing. The son thereupon understood that the same thing was to be done to the prominent citizens of Gabii.&lt;ref&gt;''Cf''. Livy [[From_the_Founding_of_the_City/Book_1#54|i. 54]]; Val. Max. {{sc|vii}}. iv. 2. Herod. v. 92 tells the same story of Periander and Thrasybulus.&lt;/ref&gt;

{{anchor|E.I.I.5}}
Gaius Caesar, distrusting the loyalty of the Egyptians, and wishing to give the appearance of indifference, indulged in riotous banqueting, while devoting himself to an inspection of the city&lt;ref&gt;Alexandria.&lt;/ref&gt; and its defences, pretending to be captivated by the charm of the place and to be succumbing to the customs and life of the Egyptians. Having made ready his reserves while he thus dissembled, he seized Egypt.&lt;ref&gt;48 {{asc|B.C.}} ''Cf''. Appian ''C''. ii. 89.&lt;/ref&gt;

{{anchor|E.I.I.6}}
When Ventidius was waging war against the Parthian king Pacorus, knowing that a certain Pharnaeus from the province of Cyrrhestica, one of those pretending to be allies, was revealing to the Parthians all the preparations of his own army, he turned the treachery of the barbarian to his own advantage; for he pretended to be afraid that those things would happen which he was particularly desirous should happen, and pretended to desire those things to happen which he really dreaded. And so, fearful that the Parthians would cross the Euphrates before he could be reinforced by the legions which were stationed beyond the Taurus Mountains in Cappadocia, he earnestly endeavoured to make this traitor, according to his usual perfidy, advise the Parthians to lead their army across through Zeugma, where the route is shortest, and where the Euphrates flows in a deep channel; for he declared that, if the Parthians came by that road, he could avail himself of the protection of the hills for eluding their archers; but that he&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
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When it was essential that Hasdrubal and his troops should be destroyed before they joined Hannibal, the brother of Hasdrubal, Claudius Nero, lacking confidence in the troops under his own command, was therefore eager to unite his forces with those of his colleague, Livius Salinator, to whom the direction of the campaign had been committed. Desiring, however, that his departure should be unobserved by Hannibal, whose camp was opposite his, he chose ten thousand of his bravest soldiers, and gave orders to the lieutenants whom he left that the usual number of patrols and sentries should be posted, the same number of fires lighted, and the usual appearance of the camp, be maintained, in order that Hannibal might not become suspicious and venture to attack the few troops left behind. Then, when he joined his colleague in Umbria after secret marches, he forbade the enlargement of the camp, lest he give some sign of his arrival to the Carthaginian commander, who would be likely to refuse battle if he knew the forces of the consuls had been united. Accordingly, attacking the enemy unawares with his reinforced troops, he won the day and returned to Hannibal in advance of any news of his exploit. Thus by the same plan he stole a march on one of the two shrewdest Carthaginian generals and crushed the other.&lt;ref&gt;207 {{asc|B.C}}. ''Cf''. Val. Max. {{sc|vii}}. iv. 4; Livy [[From_the_Founding_of_the_City/Book_27#43|xxvii. 43 ff.]]&lt;/ref&gt;

{{anchor|E.I.I.10}}
Themistocles, urging upon his fellow-citizens the speedy construction of the walls which, at the command of the Lacedaemonians, they had demolished, informed the envoys sent from Sparta to remonstrate about this matter, that he himself would come, to put an end to this suspicion. Accordingly he came to Sparta. There, by feigning illness, he secured&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
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      <text bytes="2093" sha1="sbpveavfl7wsc0pa1k43j8k66yec7ts" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Amphipolis&quot; /&gt;{{running header||{{uc|Stratagems}}, I. {{sc|i.}} 10-{{sc|ii.}} 1 |}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;a considerable delay. But after he realized that his subterfuge was suspected, he declared that the rumour which had come to the Spartans was false, and asked them to send some of their leading men, whose word they would take about the building operations of the Athenians. Then he wrote secretly to the Athenians, telling them to detain those who had come to them, until, upon the restoration of the walls, he could admit to the Spartans that Athens was fortified, and could inform them that their leaders could not return until he himself had been sent back. These terms the Spartans readily fulfilled, that they might not atone for the death of one by that of many.&lt;ref&gt;478 {{asc|B.C.}} ''Cf''. [[History_of_the_Peloponnesian_War/Book_1#1:90|Thuc. i. 90 ff.]]&lt;/ref&gt;

{{anchor|E.I.I.11}}
Lucius Furius, having led his army into an unfavourable position, determined to conceal his anxiety, lest the others take alarm. By gradually changing his course, as though planning to attack the enemy after a wider circuit, he finally reversed his line of march, and led his army safely back, without its knowing what was going on.&lt;ref&gt;''Identical with [[#E.I.V.13|{{asc|I.}} v. 13, and regarded as an interpolation in this place.''&lt;/ref&gt;

{{anchor|E.I.I.12}}
When Metellus Pius was in Spain and was asked what he was going to do the next day, he replied: &quot;If my tunic could tell, I would burn it.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;79–72 {{asc|B.C.}} ''Cf''. Val. Max. {{sc|vii}}. iv. 5.&lt;/ref&gt;

{{anchor|E.I.I.13}}
When Marcus Licinius Crassus was asked at what time he was going to break camp, he replied: &quot;Are you afraid you'll not hear the trumpet?&quot;&lt;ref&gt; Plut. [[Plutarch's_Lives_(Clough)/Life_of_Demetrius|''Demetr''. 28]] tells the same story of Antigonus and Demetrius.&lt;/ref&gt;

{{dhr}}
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{{c|II.—{{Sc|On Finding Out the Enemy's Plans}}}}

{{anchor|E.I.II.1}}
{{sc|Scipio Africanus}}, seizing the opportunity of sending an embassy to Syphax, commanded especially chosen tribunes and centurions to go with Laelius,&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
{{rvh|17|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2095" sha1="0lvmbeq7uwevvdlbeculgdfl3f7ply9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Amphipolis&quot; /&gt;{{running header||{{uc|Stratagems}}, I. {{sc|i.}} 10-{{sc|ii.}} 1 |}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;a considerable delay. But after he realized that his subterfuge was suspected, he declared that the rumour which had come to the Spartans was false, and asked them to send some of their leading men, whose word they would take about the building operations of the Athenians. Then he wrote secretly to the Athenians, telling them to detain those who had come to them, until, upon the restoration of the walls, he could admit to the Spartans that Athens was fortified, and could inform them that their leaders could not return until he himself had been sent back. These terms the Spartans readily fulfilled, that they might not atone for the death of one by that of many.&lt;ref&gt;478 {{asc|B.C.}} ''Cf''. [[History_of_the_Peloponnesian_War/Book_1#1:90|Thuc. i. 90 ff.]]&lt;/ref&gt;

{{anchor|E.I.I.11}}
Lucius Furius, having led his army into an unfavourable position, determined to conceal his anxiety, lest the others take alarm. By gradually changing his course, as though planning to attack the enemy after a wider circuit, he finally reversed his line of march, and led his army safely back, without its knowing what was going on.&lt;ref&gt;''Identical with [[#E.I.V.13|{{asc|I.}} v. 13]], and regarded as an interpolation in this place.''&lt;/ref&gt;

{{anchor|E.I.I.12}}
When Metellus Pius was in Spain and was asked what he was going to do the next day, he replied: &quot;If my tunic could tell, I would burn it.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;79–72 {{asc|B.C.}} ''Cf''. Val. Max. {{sc|vii}}. iv. 5.&lt;/ref&gt;

{{anchor|E.I.I.13}}
When Marcus Licinius Crassus was asked at what time he was going to break camp, he replied: &quot;Are you afraid you'll not hear the trumpet?&quot;&lt;ref&gt; Plut. [[Plutarch's_Lives_(Clough)/Life_of_Demetrius|''Demetr''. 28]] tells the same story of Antigonus and Demetrius.&lt;/ref&gt;

{{dhr}}
{{anchor|E.I.II}}
{{c|II.—{{Sc|On Finding Out the Enemy's Plans}}}}

{{anchor|E.I.II.1}}
{{sc|Scipio Africanus}}, seizing the opportunity of sending an embassy to Syphax, commanded especially chosen tribunes and centurions to go with Laelius,&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* Anaxibius, a Spartan general, {{asc|I}}. iv. 7; {{asc|II.}} v. 42 
* Antigonus, the name of several Macedonian kings: (1) Father of Demetrius, {{asc|IV.}} i. 10 
** (2) A. Gonatas, {{asc|III.}} iv. 2 
** (3) A. Doson, {{asc|II.}} vi. 5 
* Antiochus, the name of several Syrian kings: (l) {{asc|III.}} ii. 9; {{asc|III.}} ix. 10 
** (2) A., the Great, {{asc|I.}} viii. 7; {{asc|II.}} iv. 4 ; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 10 ; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 30 
** (3) A. Euergetes, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 2 
* Antipater, a general of Alexander of Macedon, {{asc|I.}} iv. 13 ; {{asc|II.}} xi. 4 
* Antium, a town in Latium, {{asc|III.}} i. 1 
* Antony, {{asc|I.}} vii. 5 ; {{asc|II.}} iii. 15; {{asc|II.}} v. 39; {{asc|II.}} xiii. 7; {{asc|III.}} xiii. 7; {{asc|III.}} xiv. 3; {{asc|III.}} xiv. 4; {{asc|IV}}. i. 37 
* Apollonides, {{asc|III.}} iii. 5
* Apennines, {{asc|I.}} viii. 3 
* Appius, ''see'' Claudius 
* Aquae Sextiae, a Roman colony in southern Gaul, {{asc|II.}} iv. 6 
* Aquilius, {{asc|IV.}} i. 36 
* Arabians, {{asc|II.}} v. 16 
* Arbela, a city in Assyria, {{asc|II.}} iii. 19 
* Arcadia, a province in the Peloponnesus, {{asc|III.}} ii. 7 
* Arcadians, {{asc|I.}} xi. 9; {{asc|III.}} ii. 4 
* Archelaus, a general of Mithridates, {{asc|I.}} v. 18;{{asc|I.}} xi. 20; {{asc|II.}} iii. 17; {{asc|II.}} viii. 12 
* Archidamus, a king of Sparta, {{asc|I.}} xi. 9 
* Ariovistus, a German king, {{asc|I.}} xi. 3 ; {{asc|II.}} i. 16; {{asc|IV.}} v. 11 
* Aristides, an Athenian, renowned for his integrity, and surnamed &quot;the Just,&quot; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 5 
* Aristippus, {{asc|III.}} ii. 8 
* Aristonicus, brother of Attalus III of Pergamum, {{asc|iv.}} v. 16 
* Armenia, {{asc|II.}} v. 33; {{asc|IV.}} i. 21; {{asc|IV.}} i. 28 
* Armenia Major, {{asc|II.}} i. 14; {{asc|II.}} ii. 4 
* Armenians, {{asc|I.}} iv. 10; {{asc|II.}} ix. 5 
* Arminius, a German chieftain, {{asc|II.}} ix. 4 
* Arpi, a city of Apulia, {{asc|III.}} ix. 2 
* Artaxerxes Mnemon, king of Persia, {{asc|II.}} iii. 6; {{asc|iv}}. ii. 7 
* Arusian Plains, in Samnium, {{asc|iv.}} i. 11 
* Asculani, {{asc|III.}} xvii. 8 
* Asculum, a town in Apulia, {{asc|II.}} iii. 21 
* Asia, {{asc|II.}} ix. 8; {{asc|II.}} xi. 3; {{asc|III.}} xvii. 5; {{asc|IV.}} v. 16 
* Ategua, a city in Spain, {{asc|III.}} xiv. 1 
* Atheas, {{asc|II.}} iv. 20 
* Athenians, {{asc|I.}} iii. 6; {{asc|I.}} iii. 9; {{asc|I.}} iv. 7; {{asc|I.}} iv. 13; {{asc|I.}} iv. 13a; {{asc|I.}} v. 7; {{asc|I.}} v. 23; {{asc|I.}} xi. 10; {{asc|II.}} i. 9; {{asc|II.}} i. 18; {{asc|II.}} ix. 8; {{asc|II.}} ix. 9; {{asc|II.}} ix. 10; {{asc|III.}} ii. 6; {{asc|III.}} iv. 2; {{asc|III.}} vi. 6; {{asc|III.}} xii. 1 ; {{asc|III.}} xv. 2; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 5; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 13 
* Athens, {{asc|I.}} i. 10; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 13 
* Atilius Calatinus, {{asc|I.}} v. 15; {{asc|IV.}} v. 10 
* Atilius Regulus : (1) Consul 294 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} viii. 11; {{asc|IV.}} i. 29 
** (2) Consul 267 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} iii. 10; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 3 
* Atrebas, a member of a Belgian tribe, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 11 
* Attalus, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 1 
* Augustus, ''see'' Domitian and Vespasian 
* Aurelius, {{asc|IV.}} i. 31 
* Aurelius Cotta, {{asc|IV}}. 1. 22; {{asc|IV.}} i. 30; {{asc|IV.}} i. 31 
* Aurunculeius Cotta, a lieutenant of Caesar, {{asc|III.}} xvii. 6 
* Autophradates, a Persian general, {{asc|I.}} iv. 5; {{asc|II.}} vii. 9 

* Babylon, {{asc|III.}} vii. 4 
* Babylonians, {{asc|III.}} iii. 4; {{asc|III.}} vii. 5 
* Baleares, inhabitants of the Balearic Islands, famous as slingers, {{asc|II.}} iii. 
16 
* Bantius, {{asc|III.}} xvi. 1 
* Barca, ''see'' Hamilcar 
* Bardylis, {{asc|II.}} v. 19 
* Boeotia, {{asc|II.}} viii. 12 
* Boii, a Celtic people, who early migrated to Italy, {{asc|I.}} ii. 7; {{asc|I.}} vi. 4 
* Brasidas, a distinguished Spartan general during the Peloponnesian War, {{asc|I.}} v. 23 
* Britannia, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 11 
* Brundisium, a seaport of southern Italy, {{asc|I.}} v. 5 
* Brutiani, followers of Brutus, {{asc|IV.}} ii. 1 
* Brutti, the inhabitants of the southern point of Italy, {{asc|II.}} iii. 21 
* Brutus, ''see'' Junius 
* Byzantii, the inhabitants of Byzantium, the modern Constantinople, {{asc|I.}} iii. 4; {{asc|I.}} iv. 13a; {{asc|III.}} xi. 3 

* Cadurci, a people of southern Gaul, {{asc|III.}} vii. 2 
* Caecilius Metellus: (1) L. Caecilius Metellus, consul 251 {{BC}}, {{asc|I.}} vii. 1; {{asc|II.}} v. 4&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* Anaxibius, a Spartan general, {{asc|I}}. iv. 7; {{asc|II.}} v. 42 
* Antigonus, the name of several Macedonian kings: (1) Father of Demetrius, {{asc|IV.}} i. 10 
** (2) A. Gonatas, {{asc|III.}} iv. 2 
** (3) A. Doson, {{asc|II.}} vi. 5 
* Antiochus, the name of several Syrian kings: (l) {{asc|III.}} ii. 9; {{asc|III.}} ix. 10 
** (2) A., the Great, {{asc|I.}} viii. 7; {{asc|II.}} iv. 4 ; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 10 ; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 30 
** (3) A. Euergetes, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 2 
* Antipater, a general of Alexander of Macedon, {{asc|I.}} iv. 13 ; {{asc|II.}} xi. 4 
* Antium, a town in Latium, {{asc|III.}} i. 1 
* Antony, {{asc|I.}} vii. 5 ; {{asc|II.}} iii. 15; {{asc|II.}} v. 39; {{asc|II.}} xiii. 7; {{asc|III.}} xiii. 7; {{asc|III.}} xiv. 3; {{asc|III.}} xiv. 4; {{asc|IV}}. i. 37 
* Apollonides, {{asc|III.}} iii. 5
* Apennines, {{asc|I.}} viii. 3 
* Appius, ''see'' Claudius 
* Aquae Sextiae, a Roman colony in southern Gaul, {{asc|II.}} iv. 6 
* Aquilius, {{asc|IV.}} i. 36 
* Arabians, {{asc|II.}} v. 16 
* Arbela, a city in Assyria, {{asc|II.}} iii. 19 
* Arcadia, a province in the Peloponnesus, {{asc|III.}} ii. 7 
* Arcadians, {{asc|I.}} xi. 9; {{asc|III.}} ii. 4 
* Archelaus, a general of Mithridates, {{asc|I.}} v. 18;{{asc|I.}} xi. 20; {{asc|II.}} iii. 17; {{asc|II.}} viii. 12 
* Archidamus, a king of Sparta, {{asc|I.}} xi. 9 
* Ariovistus, a German king, {{asc|I.}} xi. 3 ; {{asc|II.}} i. 16; {{asc|IV.}} v. 11 
* Aristides, an Athenian, renowned for his integrity, and surnamed &quot;the Just,&quot; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 5 
* Aristippus, {{asc|III.}} ii. 8 
* Aristonicus, brother of Attalus III of Pergamum, {{asc|iv.}} v. 16 
* Armenia, {{asc|II.}} v. 33; {{asc|IV.}} i. 21; {{asc|IV.}} i. 28 
* Armenia Major, {{asc|II.}} i. 14; {{asc|II.}} ii. 4 
* Armenians, {{asc|I.}} iv. 10; {{asc|II.}} ix. 5 
* Arminius, a German chieftain, {{asc|II.}} ix. 4 
* Arpi, a city of Apulia, {{asc|III.}} ix. 2 
* Artaxerxes Mnemon, king of Persia, {{asc|II.}} iii. 6; {{asc|iv}}. ii. 7 
* Arusian Plains, in Samnium, {{asc|iv.}} i. 11 
* Asculani, {{asc|III.}} xvii. 8 
* Asculum, a town in Apulia, {{asc|II.}} iii. 21 
* Asia, {{asc|II.}} ix. 8; {{asc|II.}} xi. 3; {{asc|III.}} xvii. 5; {{asc|IV.}} v. 16 
* Ategua, a city in Spain, {{asc|III.}} xiv. 1 
* Atheas, {{asc|II.}} iv. 20 
* Athenians, {{asc|I.}} iii. 6; {{asc|I.}} iii. 9; {{asc|I.}} iv. 7; {{asc|I.}} iv. 13; {{asc|I.}} iv. 13a; {{asc|I.}} v. 7; {{asc|I.}} v. 23; {{asc|I.}} xi. 10; {{asc|II.}} i. 9; {{asc|II.}} i. 18; {{asc|II.}} ix. 8; {{asc|II.}} ix. 9; {{asc|II.}} ix. 10; {{asc|III.}} ii. 6; {{asc|III.}} iv. 2; {{asc|III.}} vi. 6; {{asc|III.}} xii. 1 ; {{asc|III.}} xv. 2; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 5; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 13 
* Athens, {{asc|I.}} i. 10; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 13 
* Atilius Calatinus, {{asc|I.}} v. 15; {{asc|IV.}} v. 10 
* Atilius Regulus : (1) Consul 294 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} viii. 11; {{asc|IV.}} i. 29 
** (2) Consul 267 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} iii. 10; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 3 
* Atrebas, a member of a Belgian tribe, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 11 
* Attalus, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 1 
* Augustus, ''see'' Domitian and Vespasian 
* Aurelius, {{asc|IV.}} i. 31 
* Aurelius Cotta, {{asc|IV}}. 1. 22; {{asc|IV.}} i. 30; {{asc|IV.}} i. 31 
* Aurunculeius Cotta, a lieutenant of Caesar, {{asc|III.}} xvii. 6 
* Autophradates, a Persian general, {{asc|I.}} iv. 5; {{asc|II.}} vii. 9 

* Babylon, {{asc|III.}} vii. 4 
* Babylonians, {{asc|III.}} iii. 4; {{asc|III.}} vii. 5 
* Baleares, inhabitants of the Balearic Islands, famous as slingers, {{asc|II.}} iii. 
16 
* Bantius, {{asc|III.}} xvi. 1 
* Barca, ''see'' Hamilcar 
* Bardylis, {{asc|II.}} v. 19 
* Boeotia, {{asc|II.}} viii. 12 
* Boii, a Celtic people, who early migrated to Italy, {{asc|I.}} ii. 7; {{asc|I.}} vi. 4 
* Brasidas, a distinguished Spartan general during the Peloponnesian War, {{asc|I.}} v. 23 
* Britannia, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 11 
* Brundisium, a seaport of southern Italy, {{asc|I.}} v. 5 
* Brutiani, followers of Brutus, {{asc|IV.}} ii. 1 
* Brutti, the inhabitants of the southern point of Italy, {{asc|II.}} iii. 21 
* Brutus, ''see'' Junius 
* Byzantii, the inhabitants of Byzantium, the modern Constantinople, {{asc|I.}} iii. 4; {{asc|I.}} iv. 13a; {{asc|III.}} xi. 3 

* Cadurci, a people of southern Gaul, {{asc|III.}} vii. 2 
* Caecilius Metellus: (1) L. Caecilius Metellus, consul 251 {{BC}}, {{asc|I.}} vii. 1; {{asc|II.}} v. 4&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;** (2) Q. Caecilius Metellus Macedonicus, consul 143 {{BC}}, {{asc|III.}} vii. 3; {{asc|iv.}} i. 11; {{asc|iv.}} i. 23; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 42 
** (3) Q. Caecilius Metellus Numidicus, {{asc|I.}} viii. 8; {{asc|iv.}} i. 2; {{asc|iv.}} ii. 2; (''cf''. note to {{asc|IV.}} i. 11) 
** (4) Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius, {{asc|I.}} i. 12; {{asc|II.}} i. 2; {{asc|II.}} i. 3; {{asc|II.}} iii. 5; {{asc|II.}} xiii. 3 
* Caedicius, {{asc|IV.}} vii. 8 
* (Q.) Caedicius, {{asc|I.}} v. 15; {{asc|iv.}} v. 10 
* Caelii, {{asc|IV}}. v. 14 
* Caelius, {{asc|IV.}} v. 14 
* Caesar, ''see'' Julius and Domitian 
* Caeso, ''see'' Fabius 
* Calatiuus, ''see'' Atilius 
* Callidromus, {{asc|II.}} iv. 4 
* Calpurnius Flamma, {{asc|I.}} v. 15 ; {{asc|IV.}} v. 10 
* Calpurnius Piso: (1) Cn. Calpurnius Piso, {{asc|III.}} vi. 5 
** (2) L. Calpurnius Piso, {{asc|IV.}} i. 26 
* Calvinus, {{asc|III.}} ii. 1 
* Camalatrum, {{asc|II.}} iv. 7 
* Camertes, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2 
* Camillus, ''see'' Furius 
* Campania, {{asc|I.}} ix. 1 
* Campanians, {{asc|III.}} iv. 1; {{asc|III.}} xiii. 2; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 29 
* Cannae, a village in Apulia, {{asc|ii.}} ii. 7 ; {{asc|II.}} iii. 7; {{asc|II.}} v. 27; {{asc|III.}} xvi. 1; {{asc|iv.}} i. 44; {{asc|IV.}} v. 5; {{asc|IV.}} v. 7; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 39 
* Cannicus, {{asc|II.}} iv. 7; {{asc|II.}} v. 34 
* Cantenna, {{asc|ii.}} v. 34 
* Canusium, a town in Apulia, {{asc|iv.}} v. 7 
* Capitol, {{asc|III.}} xiii. 1; {{asc|III.}} xv. 1 
* Capitolinus, ''see'' Quintius 
* Cappadocia, a country in Asia Minor, {{asc|I.}} i. 6; {{asc|I.}} v. 18; {{asc|II.}} ii. 2; {{asc|II.}} vii. 9; {{asc|III.}} ii. 9 
* Capua, an ancient citj- of Campania, {{asc|IV.}} xviii. 3 
* Cardianus, from Cardia, a town of the Thracian Chersonese, {{asc|iv.}} vii. 34 
* Caria, a province of Asia Minor, {{asc|I.}} viii. 12; {{asc|III.}} ii. 5 
* Carpetani, a people of central Spain, {{asc|II.}} vii. 7 
* Carthage, {{asc|I.}} xi. 4 
* Carthago Nova, a seaport of south-eastern Spain, {{asc|III.}} ix. 1 
* Carthaginienses, ''passim'': {{asc|I.}} ii. 3; {{asc|I.}} ii. 4; {{asc|I.}} iii. 8; {{asc|I.}} vii. 3; {{asc|I.}} viii. 7; {{asc|II.}} i. 4; {{asc|II.}} ii. 11; {{asc|II.}} v. 11; {{asc|II.}} v. 12; {{asc|II.}} v. 29; {{asc|II.}} ix. 6; {{asc|III.}} ii. 2 
* Casilini, {{asc|IV}}. v. 20 
* Casilinum, a town in Campania, {{asc|III.}} xiv. 2; {{asc|III.}} xv. 3 
* Cassiani, followers of Cassius, {{asc|IV.}} ii. 1 
* Cassius, {{asc|II.}} v. 35; {{asc|IV.}} ii. 1; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 11 
* Castor and Pollux, {{asc|I.}} xi. 8; {{asc|I.}} xi. 9 
* Castus, {{asc|II.}} iv. 7; {{asc|II.}} v. 34 
* Catina, a city in Sicily, {{asc|III.}} vi. 6 
* Catinenses, {{asc|III}}. vi. 6 
* Cato, ''see'' Porcius 
* Catulus, ''see'' Lutatius 
* Caudine Forks, a mountain pass in Samnium, {{asc|I.}} v. 16 
* Celtiberians, a people of Spain, {{asc|II.}} v. 3; {{asc|II.}} v. 7. 
* Ceres, the Italian goddess of agriculture, {{asc|II.}} ix. 9 
* Chabrias, a celebrated Athenian general, {{asc|I.}} iv. 14; {{asc|I.}} xii. 12 
* Chaeronea, a town in Boeotia, {{asc|II}}. i. 9 
* Chalcidians, the inhabitants of Chalcis in Euboea, {{asc|III.}} xi. 1 
* Chares, an Athenian general, {{asc|II.}} xii. 3; {{asc|III.}} x. 8 
* Charmades, {{asc|III.}} ii. 11 
* Chatti, a people of western Germany, {{asc|II.}} iii. 23 
* Chaucenses, {{asc|II.}} xi. 2 
* Chersonesus, the Thracian peninsula, west of the Hellespont, {{asc|I.}} iv. 13a; {{asc|II.}} v. 42 
* Chians, the inhabitants of Chios, an island in the Aegean Sea, {{asc|I.}} iv. 13a 
* Cicero, ''see'' Tullius 
* Cimbrians, a people of northern Germany, {{asc|I.}} ii. 6; {{asc|I.}} v. 3; {{asc|II.}} ii. 8; {{asc|II.}} v. 8; {{asc|II.}} vii. 12 
* Ciminian Forest, in Etruria, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2 
* Cimon, a distinguished Athenian general, son of Miltiades, {{asc|II.}} ix. 10; {{asc|III.}} ii. 5 
* Cineas, an Epirote, a friend of Pyrrhus, {{asc|IV.}} iii. 2 
* Civilis, {{asc|IV.}} iii. 14 
* Claudius: (1) Appius Claudius Sabinus, {{asc|IV.}} i. 34 
** (2) Appius Claudius Caecus, {{asc|IV.}} i. 18 
** (3) Appius Claudius Caudex, {{asc|I.}} iv. 11 
** (4) Appius Claudius Pulcher, {{asc|IV.}} i. 44 
** (5) Publius Claudius, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 9 
** (6) M. Claudius Marcellus, consul 222 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} ii. 6; {{asc|II.}} iii. 9; {{asc|II.}} iv. 8; {{asc|III.}} iii. 2; {{asc|III.}} xvi. 1;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;** (2) Q. Caecilius Metellus Macedonicus, consul 143 {{BC}}, {{asc|III.}} vii. 3; {{asc|iv.}} i. 11; {{asc|iv.}} i. 23; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 42 
** (3) Q. Caecilius Metellus Numidicus, {{asc|I.}} viii. 8; {{asc|iv.}} i. 2; {{asc|iv.}} ii. 2; (''cf''. note to {{asc|IV.}} i. 11) 
** (4) Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius, {{asc|I.}} i. 12; {{asc|II.}} i. 2; {{asc|II.}} i. 3; {{asc|II.}} iii. 5; {{asc|II.}} xiii. 3 
* Caedicius, {{asc|IV.}} vii. 8 
* (Q.) Caedicius, {{asc|I.}} v. 15; {{asc|iv.}} v. 10 
* Caelii, {{asc|IV}}. v. 14 
* Caelius, {{asc|IV.}} v. 14 
* Caesar, ''see'' Julius and Domitian 
* Caeso, ''see'' Fabius 
* Calatiuus, ''see'' Atilius 
* Callidromus, {{asc|II.}} iv. 4 
* Calpurnius Flamma, {{asc|I.}} v. 15 ; {{asc|IV.}} v. 10 
* Calpurnius Piso: (1) Cn. Calpurnius Piso, {{asc|III.}} vi. 5 
** (2) L. Calpurnius Piso, {{asc|IV.}} i. 26 
* Calvinus, {{asc|III.}} ii. 1 
* Camalatrum, {{asc|II.}} iv. 7 
* Camertes, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2 
* Camillus, ''see'' Furius 
* Campania, {{asc|I.}} ix. 1 
* Campanians, {{asc|III.}} iv. 1; {{asc|III.}} xiii. 2; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 29 
* Cannae, a village in Apulia, {{asc|ii.}} ii. 7 ; {{asc|II.}} iii. 7; {{asc|II.}} v. 27; {{asc|III.}} xvi. 1; {{asc|iv.}} i. 44; {{asc|IV.}} v. 5; {{asc|IV.}} v. 7; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 39 
* Cannicus, {{asc|II.}} iv. 7; {{asc|II.}} v. 34 
* Cantenna, {{asc|ii.}} v. 34 
* Canusium, a town in Apulia, {{asc|iv.}} v. 7 
* Capitol, {{asc|III.}} xiii. 1; {{asc|III.}} xv. 1 
* Capitolinus, ''see'' Quintius 
* Cappadocia, a country in Asia Minor, {{asc|I.}} i. 6; {{asc|I.}} v. 18; {{asc|II.}} ii. 2; {{asc|II.}} vii. 9; {{asc|III.}} ii. 9 
* Capua, an ancient citj- of Campania, {{asc|IV.}} xviii. 3 
* Cardianus, from Cardia, a town of the Thracian Chersonese, {{asc|iv.}} vii. 34 
* Caria, a province of Asia Minor, {{asc|I.}} viii. 12; {{asc|III.}} ii. 5 
* Carpetani, a people of central Spain, {{asc|II.}} vii. 7 
* Carthage, {{asc|I.}} xi. 4 
* Carthago Nova, a seaport of south-eastern Spain, {{asc|III.}} ix. 1 
* Carthaginienses, ''passim'': {{asc|I.}} ii. 3; {{asc|I.}} ii. 4; {{asc|I.}} iii. 8; {{asc|I.}} vii. 3; {{asc|I.}} viii. 7; {{asc|II.}} i. 4; {{asc|II.}} ii. 11; {{asc|II.}} v. 11; {{asc|II.}} v. 12; {{asc|II.}} v. 29; {{asc|II.}} ix. 6; {{asc|III.}} ii. 2 
* Casilini, {{asc|IV}}. v. 20 
* Casilinum, a town in Campania, {{asc|III.}} xiv. 2; {{asc|III.}} xv. 3 
* Cassiani, followers of Cassius, {{asc|IV.}} ii. 1 
* Cassius, {{asc|II.}} v. 35; {{asc|IV.}} ii. 1; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 11 
* Castor and Pollux, {{asc|I.}} xi. 8; {{asc|I.}} xi. 9 
* Castus, {{asc|II.}} iv. 7; {{asc|II.}} v. 34 
* Catina, a city in Sicily, {{asc|III.}} vi. 6 
* Catinenses, {{asc|III}}. vi. 6 
* Cato, ''see'' Porcius 
* Catulus, ''see'' Lutatius 
* Caudine Forks, a mountain pass in Samnium, {{asc|I.}} v. 16 
* Celtiberians, a people of Spain, {{asc|II.}} v. 3; {{asc|II.}} v. 7. 
* Ceres, the Italian goddess of agriculture, {{asc|II.}} ix. 9 
* Chabrias, a celebrated Athenian general, {{asc|I.}} iv. 14; {{asc|I.}} xii. 12 
* Chaeronea, a town in Boeotia, {{asc|II}}. i. 9 
* Chalcidians, the inhabitants of Chalcis in Euboea, {{asc|III.}} xi. 1 
* Chares, an Athenian general, {{asc|II.}} xii. 3; {{asc|III.}} x. 8 
* Charmades, {{asc|III.}} ii. 11 
* Chatti, a people of western Germany, {{asc|II.}} iii. 23 
* Chaucenses, {{asc|II.}} xi. 2 
* Chersonesus, the Thracian peninsula, west of the Hellespont, {{asc|I.}} iv. 13a; {{asc|II.}} v. 42 
* Chians, the inhabitants of Chios, an island in the Aegean Sea, {{asc|I.}} iv. 13a 
* Cicero, ''see'' Tullius 
* Cimbrians, a people of northern Germany, {{asc|I.}} ii. 6; {{asc|I.}} v. 3; {{asc|II.}} ii. 8; {{asc|II.}} v. 8; {{asc|II.}} vii. 12 
* Ciminian Forest, in Etruria, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2 
* Cimon, a distinguished Athenian general, son of Miltiades, {{asc|II.}} ix. 10; {{asc|III.}} ii. 5 
* Cineas, an Epirote, a friend of Pyrrhus, {{asc|IV.}} iii. 2 
* Civilis, {{asc|IV.}} iii. 14 
* Claudius: (1) Appius Claudius Sabinus, {{asc|IV.}} i. 34 
** (2) Appius Claudius Caecus, {{asc|IV.}} i. 18 
** (3) Appius Claudius Caudex, {{asc|I.}} iv. 11 
** (4) Appius Claudius Pulcher, {{asc|IV.}} i. 44 
** (5) Publius Claudius, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 9 
** (6) M. Claudius Marcellus, consul 222 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} ii. 6; {{asc|II.}} iii. 9; {{asc|II.}} iv. 8; {{asc|III.}} iii. 2; {{asc|III.}} xvi. 1;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{asc|IV.}} i. 11; {{asc|IV.}} v. 1; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 26; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 38 
** (7) Claudius Marcellus, officer under Marius, {{asc|ii.}} iv. 6 
** (8) C. Claudius Nero, {{asc|I.}} i. 9; {{asc|I.}} ii. 9; {{asc|I.}} v. 19; {{asc|II.}} iii. 8; {{asc|II.}} ix. 2 
** (9) Ti. Claudius Nero, {{asc|II.}} i. 15 
* Cleandridas, {{asc|II.}} iii. 12 
* Clearchus, a Spartan general in the Peloponnesian War, {{asc|III.}} v. 1; {{asc|iv.}} i. 17 
* Cleonienes, king of Sparta, II. ii. 9 
* Cleonymus, {{asc|III.}} vi. 7 
* Clisthenes, tyrant of Sicyon, {{asc|III.}} vii. 6 
* Clodius, {{asc|I.}} v. 21 
* Clusium, an important town in Etruria, {{asc|I.}} viii. 3 
* Cocles, ''see'' Horatius 
* Cominius, {{asc|iii.}} xiii. 1 
* Commius, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 11 
* Cononeus, {{asc|III.}} iii. 6 
* Consabra, {{asc|iv.}} v. 19 
* Corbulo, ''see'' Domitius 
* Corcyreans, the inhabitants of Corcyra, an island in the Ionian Sea, {{asc|I.}} xii. 11 
* Corinth, {{asc|III.}} xii. 2; {{asc|iv.}} iii. 15 
* Coriolanus, an early Roman patrician condemned to exile by the plebeian assembly. Hero of Shakespeare's play of that name, {{asc|I.}} viii. 1 
* Cornelius: (1) Cornelius Cossus, 426 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} viii. 9 
** (2) Cornelius Cossus, consul, 343 {{BC}}, {{asc|I.}} v. 14; {{asc|IV.}} v. 9 
** (3) Cornelius Lentulus, {{asc|IV.}} v. 5 
** (4) P. Cornelius Rufinus, {{asc|III.}} vi. 4 
** (5) L. Cornelius Rufinus, {{asc|III.}} ix.4; (''cf''. note) 
** (6) Cornelius Scipio, legatus 297 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} iv. 2 
** (7) L. Cornelius Scipio, consul 259 {{BC}}, {{asc|III.}} x. 2; (''cf''. {{asc|III.}} ix. 4 and note) 
** (8) Cn. Cornelius Scipio, {{asc|II.}} iii. 1; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 4; {{asc|iv.}} vii. 9 
** (9) P. Cornelius Scipio Africanus Major, {{asc|I.}} ii. 1; {{asc|I.}} iii. 5; {{asc|I.}} iii. 8; {{asc|I.}} viii. 10; {{asc|I.}} xii. 1; {{asc|II.}} i. 1; {{asc|II.}} iii. 4; {{asc|II.}} iii. 16; {{asc|II.}} v. 29; {{asc|II.}} vii. 4; {{asc|II.}} xi. 5; {{asc|III.}} vi. 1; {{asc|III.}} ix. 1; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 30; {{asc|iv.}} vii. 39 
** (10) L.Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus, {{asc|IV.}} vii, 30
** (11) P. Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus Africanus Minor, {{asc|ii.}} viii. 7; {{asc|IV.}} i. 1; {{asc|IV.}} i. 5; {{asc|iv.}} iii. 9; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 4; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 16; {{asc|iv.}} vii. 27 
** (12) P. Cornelius Scipio Nasica, {{asc|IV.}} i. 15 
** (13) P. Cornelius Scipio Nasica Corculum, {{asc|III.}} vi. 2 
** (14) P. Cornelius Scipio Nasica Serapio, {{asc|iv.}} i. 20 
** (15) L. Cornelius Sulla, {{asc|I.}} v. 17; {{asc|I.}} v. 18; {{asc|I.}} ix. 2; {{asc|i.}} xi. 11; {{asc|I.}} xi. 20; {{asc|II.}} iii. 17; II. vii. 2; {{asc|II.}} vii. 3; {{asc|II.}} viii. 12; {{asc|II.}} ix. 3; {{asc|IV.}} i. 27 
* Cossus, ''see'' Cornelius 
* Cotta, ''see'' Aurelius and Aurunculeius 
* Crassus, ''see'' Fonteius, Licinius, Otacilius 
* Craterus, {{asc|III.}} vi. 7 
* Crispinus, ''see'' Quintius 
* Crissaei, the inhabitants of Crissa, a town in Phocis, {{asc|III.}} vii. 6 
* Croesus, the last king of Lydia, {{asc|I.}} v. 4; {{asc|II.}} iv. 12; {{asc|III.}} viii. 3 
* Crotona (Croton), a Greek town in southern Italy, {{asc|III.}} vi. 4 
* Crotonienses, {{asc|III.}} vi. 4 
* Cubii, {{asc|II.}} xi. 7 
* Cunctator, ''see'' Fabius 
* Curio, ''see'' Scribonius 
* Curius, {{tooltip|M'.|Manius}} Curius Dentatus, a hero of the Roman republic, {{asc|I.}} viii. 4; {{asc|II.}} ii. 1; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 12 
* Cursor, ''see'' Papirius 
* Cyprus, the island, {{asc|II.}} ix. 10 
* Cyrrhestes, a native of Cyrrhestica, a province of Syria, {{asc|I.}} i. 6 
* Cyrus, the Elder, king of Persia, {{asc|I.}} xi. 19; {{asc|II.}} v. 5; {{asc|III.}} iii. 4; {{asc|III.}} viii. 3 
* Cyrus, the Younger, {{asc|iv.}} ii. 5; {{asc|IV.}} ii. 7 
* Cyzicenes, the inhabitants of Cyzicus, {{asc|III.}} xiii. 6 
* Cyzicus, a town and island north of Asia Minor, {{asc|III.}} ix. 6; {{asc|IV.}} v. 21 
* Daci, the people of Dacia, on the north bank of the Danube, {{asc|I.}} x. 4; {{asc|II.}} iv. 3 
* Dardanicum bellum, {{asc|iv.}} i. 43 
* Darius, king of Persia, {{asc|I.}} v. 25 
* Datames, a distinguished Persian general, {{asc|II.}} vii. 9 
* Decelea, a deme in Attica, north of Athens, {{asc|I.}} iii. 9&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}
{{rvh|472|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{asc|IV.}} i. 11; {{asc|IV.}} v. 1; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 26; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 38 
** (7) Claudius Marcellus, officer under Marius, {{asc|ii.}} iv. 6 
** (8) C. Claudius Nero, {{asc|I.}} i. 9; {{asc|I.}} ii. 9; {{asc|I.}} v. 19; {{asc|II.}} iii. 8; {{asc|II.}} ix. 2 
** (9) Ti. Claudius Nero, {{asc|II.}} i. 15 
* Cleandridas, {{asc|II.}} iii. 12 
* Clearchus, a Spartan general in the Peloponnesian War, {{asc|III.}} v. 1; {{asc|iv.}} i. 17 
* Cleonienes, king of Sparta, II. ii. 9 
* Cleonymus, {{asc|III.}} vi. 7 
* Clisthenes, tyrant of Sicyon, {{asc|III.}} vii. 6 
* Clodius, {{asc|I.}} v. 21 
* Clusium, an important town in Etruria, {{asc|I.}} viii. 3 
* Cocles, ''see'' Horatius 
* Cominius, {{asc|iii.}} xiii. 1 
* Commius, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 11 
* Cononeus, {{asc|III.}} iii. 6 
* Consabra, {{asc|iv.}} v. 19 
* Corbulo, ''see'' Domitius 
* Corcyreans, the inhabitants of Corcyra, an island in the Ionian Sea, {{asc|I.}} xii. 11 
* Corinth, {{asc|III.}} xii. 2; {{asc|iv.}} iii. 15 
* Coriolanus, an early Roman patrician condemned to exile by the plebeian assembly. Hero of Shakespeare's play of that name, {{asc|I.}} viii. 1 
* Cornelius: (1) Cornelius Cossus, 426 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} viii. 9 
** (2) Cornelius Cossus, consul, 343 {{BC}}, {{asc|I.}} v. 14; {{asc|IV.}} v. 9 
** (3) Cornelius Lentulus, {{asc|IV.}} v. 5 
** (4) P. Cornelius Rufinus, {{asc|III.}} vi. 4 
** (5) L. Cornelius Rufinus, {{asc|III.}} ix.4; (''cf''. note) 
** (6) Cornelius Scipio, legatus 297 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} iv. 2 
** (7) L. Cornelius Scipio, consul 259 {{BC}}, {{asc|III.}} x. 2; (''cf''. {{asc|III.}} ix. 4 and note) 
** (8) Cn. Cornelius Scipio, {{asc|II.}} iii. 1; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 4; {{asc|iv.}} vii. 9 
** (9) P. Cornelius Scipio Africanus Major, {{asc|I.}} ii. 1; {{asc|I.}} iii. 5; {{asc|I.}} iii. 8; {{asc|I.}} viii. 10; {{asc|I.}} xii. 1; {{asc|II.}} i. 1; {{asc|II.}} iii. 4; {{asc|II.}} iii. 16; {{asc|II.}} v. 29; {{asc|II.}} vii. 4; {{asc|II.}} xi. 5; {{asc|III.}} vi. 1; {{asc|III.}} ix. 1; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 30; {{asc|iv.}} vii. 39 
** (10) L.Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus, {{asc|IV.}} vii, 30
** (11) P. Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus Africanus Minor, {{asc|ii.}} viii. 7; {{asc|IV.}} i. 1; {{asc|IV.}} i. 5; {{asc|iv.}} iii. 9; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 4; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 16; {{asc|iv.}} vii. 27 
** (12) P. Cornelius Scipio Nasica, {{asc|IV.}} i. 15 
** (13) P. Cornelius Scipio Nasica Corculum, {{asc|III.}} vi. 2 
** (14) P. Cornelius Scipio Nasica Serapio, {{asc|iv.}} i. 20 
** (15) L. Cornelius Sulla, {{asc|I.}} v. 17; {{asc|I.}} v. 18; {{asc|I.}} ix. 2; {{asc|i.}} xi. 11; {{asc|I.}} xi. 20; {{asc|II.}} iii. 17; II. vii. 2; {{asc|II.}} vii. 3; {{asc|II.}} viii. 12; {{asc|II.}} ix. 3; {{asc|IV.}} i. 27 
* Cossus, ''see'' Cornelius 
* Cotta, ''see'' Aurelius and Aurunculeius 
* Crassus, ''see'' Fonteius, Licinius, Otacilius 
* Craterus, {{asc|III.}} vi. 7 
* Crispinus, ''see'' Quintius 
* Crissaei, the inhabitants of Crissa, a town in Phocis, {{asc|III.}} vii. 6 
* Croesus, the last king of Lydia, {{asc|I.}} v. 4; {{asc|II.}} iv. 12; {{asc|III.}} viii. 3 
* Crotona (Croton), a Greek town in southern Italy, {{asc|III.}} vi. 4 
* Crotonienses, {{asc|III.}} vi. 4 
* Cubii, {{asc|II.}} xi. 7 
* Cunctator, ''see'' Fabius 
* Curio, ''see'' Scribonius 
* Curius, {{tooltip|M'.|Manius}} Curius Dentatus, a hero of the Roman republic, {{asc|I.}} viii. 4; {{asc|II.}} ii. 1; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 12 
* Cursor, ''see'' Papirius 
* Cyprus, the island, {{asc|II.}} ix. 10 
* Cyrrhestes, a native of Cyrrhestica, a province of Syria, {{asc|I.}} i. 6 
* Cyrus, the Elder, king of Persia, {{asc|I.}} xi. 19; {{asc|II.}} v. 5; {{asc|III.}} iii. 4; {{asc|III.}} viii. 3 
* Cyrus, the Younger, {{asc|iv.}} ii. 5; {{asc|IV.}} ii. 7 
* Cyzicenes, the inhabitants of Cyzicus, {{asc|III.}} xiii. 6 
* Cyzicus, a town and island north of Asia Minor, {{asc|III.}} ix. 6; {{asc|IV.}} v. 21 
* Daci, the people of Dacia, on the north bank of the Danube, {{asc|I.}} x. 4; {{asc|II.}} iv. 3 
* Dardanicum bellum, {{asc|iv.}} i. 43 
* Darius, king of Persia, {{asc|I.}} v. 25 
* Datames, a distinguished Persian general, {{asc|II.}} vii. 9 
* Decelea, a deme in Attica, north of Athens, {{asc|I.}} iii. 9&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}
{{rvh|472|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{asc|IV.}} i. 11; {{asc|IV.}} v. 1; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 26; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 38 
** (7) Claudius Marcellus, officer under Marius, {{asc|ii.}} iv. 6 
** (8) C. Claudius Nero, {{asc|I.}} i. 9; {{asc|I.}} ii. 9; {{asc|I.}} v. 19; {{asc|II.}} iii. 8; {{asc|II.}} ix. 2 
** (9) Ti. Claudius Nero, {{asc|II.}} i. 15 
* Cleandridas, {{asc|II.}} iii. 12 
* Clearchus, a Spartan general in the Peloponnesian War, {{asc|III.}} v. 1; {{asc|iv.}} i. 17 
* Cleonienes, king of Sparta, II. ii. 9 
* Cleonymus, {{asc|III.}} vi. 7 
* Clisthenes, tyrant of Sicyon, {{asc|III.}} vii. 6 
* Clodius, {{asc|I.}} v. 21 
* Clusium, an important town in Etruria, {{asc|I.}} viii. 3 
* Cocles, ''see'' Horatius 
* Cominius, {{asc|iii.}} xiii. 1 
* Commius, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 11 
* Cononeus, {{asc|III.}} iii. 6 
* Consabra, {{asc|iv.}} v. 19 
* Corbulo, ''see'' Domitius 
* Corcyreans, the inhabitants of Corcyra, an island in the Ionian Sea, {{asc|I.}} xii. 11 
* Corinth, {{asc|III.}} xii. 2; {{asc|iv.}} iii. 15 
* Coriolanus, an early Roman patrician condemned to exile by the plebeian assembly. Hero of Shakespeare's play of that name, {{asc|I.}} viii. 1 
* Cornelius: (1) Cornelius Cossus, 426 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} viii. 9 
** (2) Cornelius Cossus, consul, 343 {{BC}}, {{asc|I.}} v. 14; {{asc|IV.}} v. 9 
** (3) Cornelius Lentulus, {{asc|IV.}} v. 5 
** (4) P. Cornelius Rufinus, {{asc|III.}} vi. 4 
** (5) L. Cornelius Rufinus, {{asc|III.}} ix.4; (''cf''. note) 
** (6) Cornelius Scipio, legatus 297 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} iv. 2 
** (7) L. Cornelius Scipio, consul 259 {{BC}}, {{asc|III.}} x. 2; (''cf''. {{asc|III.}} ix. 4 and note) 
** (8) Cn. Cornelius Scipio, {{asc|II.}} iii. 1; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 4; {{asc|iv.}} vii. 9 
** (9) P. Cornelius Scipio Africanus Major, {{asc|I.}} ii. 1; {{asc|I.}} iii. 5; {{asc|I.}} iii. 8; {{asc|I.}} viii. 10; {{asc|I.}} xii. 1; {{asc|II.}} i. 1; {{asc|II.}} iii. 4; {{asc|II.}} iii. 16; {{asc|II.}} v. 29; {{asc|II.}} vii. 4; {{asc|II.}} xi. 5; {{asc|III.}} vi. 1; {{asc|III.}} ix. 1; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 30; {{asc|iv.}} vii. 39 
** (10) L.Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus, {{asc|IV.}} vii, 30
** (11) P. Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus Africanus Minor, {{asc|ii.}} viii. 7; {{asc|IV.}} i. 1; {{asc|IV.}} i. 5; {{asc|iv.}} iii. 9; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 4; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 16; {{asc|iv.}} vii. 27 
** (12) P. Cornelius Scipio Nasica, {{asc|IV.}} i. 15 
** (13) P. Cornelius Scipio Nasica Corculum, {{asc|III.}} vi. 2 
** (14) P. Cornelius Scipio Nasica Serapio, {{asc|iv.}} i. 20 
** (15) L. Cornelius Sulla, {{asc|I.}} v. 17; {{asc|I.}} v. 18; {{asc|I.}} ix. 2; {{asc|i.}} xi. 11; {{asc|I.}} xi. 20; {{asc|II.}} iii. 17; II. vii. 2; {{asc|II.}} vii. 3; {{asc|II.}} viii. 12; {{asc|II.}} ix. 3; {{asc|IV.}} i. 27 
* Cossus, ''see'' Cornelius 
* Cotta, ''see'' Aurelius and Aurunculeius 
* Crassus, ''see'' Fonteius, Licinius, Otacilius 
* Craterus, {{asc|III.}} vi. 7 
* Crispinus, ''see'' Quintius 
* Crissaei, the inhabitants of Crissa, a town in Phocis, {{asc|III.}} vii. 6 
* Croesus, the last king of Lydia, {{asc|I.}} v. 4; {{asc|II.}} iv. 12; {{asc|III.}} viii. 3 
* Crotona (Croton), a Greek town in southern Italy, {{asc|III.}} vi. 4 
* Crotonienses, {{asc|III.}} vi. 4 
* Cubii, {{asc|II.}} xi. 7 
* Cunctator, ''see'' Fabius 
* Curio, ''see'' Scribonius 
* Curius, {{tooltip|M'.|Manius}} Curius Dentatus, a hero of the Roman republic, {{asc|I.}} viii. 4; {{asc|II.}} ii. 1; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 12 
* Cursor, ''see'' Papirius 
* Cyprus, the island, {{asc|II.}} ix. 10 
* Cyrrhestes, a native of Cyrrhestica, a province of Syria, {{asc|I.}} i. 6 
* Cyrus, the Elder, king of Persia, {{asc|I.}} xi. 19; {{asc|II.}} v. 5; {{asc|III.}} iii. 4; {{asc|III.}} viii. 3 
* Cyrus, the Younger, {{asc|iv.}} ii. 5; {{asc|IV.}} ii. 7 
* Cyzicenes, the inhabitants of Cyzicus, {{asc|III.}} xiii. 6 
* Cyzicus, a town and island north of Asia Minor, {{asc|III.}} ix. 6; {{asc|IV.}} v. 21 
* Daci, the people of Dacia, on the north bank of the Danube, {{asc|I.}} x. 4; {{asc|II.}} iv. 3 
* Dardanicum bellum, {{asc|iv.}} i. 43 
* Darius, king of Persia, {{asc|I.}} v. 25 
* Datames, a distinguished Persian general, {{asc|II.}} vii. 9 
* Decelea, a deme in Attica, north of Athens, {{asc|I.}} iii. 9&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}
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    <title>Page:Frontinus - The stratagems, and, the aqueducts of Rome (Bennet et al 1925).djvu/529</title>
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* Decius: P. Decius Mus, (1) consul 340 {{BC}}, {{asc|I.}} v. 14; {{asc|IV.}} v. 9; {{asc|IV.}} v. 15 
** (2) Consul 295 {{BC}}, {{asc|I.}} viii. 3; {{asc|IV.}} V. 15 
* Dolminus, {{asc|III.}} vi. 2 
* Delphi, seat of the oracle of Apollo in Phocis, {{asc|I.}} xi. 11 
* Diana, the goddess, {{asc|III.}} ii. 5 
* Didius, {{asc|I.}} viii. 5; {{asc|II.}} x. 1 
* Diodotus, {{asc|III.}} xvi. 5 
* Dionysius, tyrant of Syracuse, {{asc|I.}} viii. 11; {{asc|III.}} iv. 3; {{asc|III.}} iv. 4 
* Dis, another name for Pluto, god of the underworld, {{asc|i.}} ii. 10 
* Domitian, the Emperor, {{asc|I.}} i. 8; {{asc|I.}} iii. 10; {{asc|II.}} iii. 23; {{asc|II.}} xi. 7; {{asc|iv.}} iii. 14 
* Domitius Calvinus, {{asc|III.}} ii. 1 
* Domitius Corbulo, a distinguished Roman general, {{asc|II.}} ix. 5; {{asc|iv.}} i. 21; {{asc|IV.}} i. 28; {{asc|IV.}} ii. 3; {{SIC|{{asc|VI.}} vii. 2|{{asc|IV.}} vii. 2}} 
* Duellius, winner of the first naval victory won by the Romans, {{asc|I.}} v. 6; {{asc|II.}} iii. 24; {{asc|III.}} ii. 2 
* Duillius, {{asc|I.}} v. 17 
* Dyrrhachium, a seaport town of Illyria, {{asc|II.}} vii. 13; {{asc|III.}} xvii. 4; {{asc|IV.}} i. 43 

* Elea, a city of Aeolis in Asia Minor, {{asc|IV.}} v. 16 
* Eleusis, a city of Attica, famous for the Eleusinian mysteries, {{asc|II.}} ix. 9 
* Enipeus, a river of Thessaly, {{asc|II.}} iii. 22 
* Epaminondas, the famous Theban general, {{asc|I.}} xi. 6; {{asc|I.}} xi. 16; {{asc|I.}} xii. 5; {{asc|I.}} xii.6; {{asc|I.}} xii. 7; {{asc|II.}} ii.l2; {{asc|II.}} v. 26; {{asc|III.}} ii. 7; {{asc|III.}} xi. 5; {{asc|III.}} xii. 3; {{asc|IV.}} ii. 6; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 6 
* Ephesii, the inhabitants of Ephesus, {{asc|III.}} iii. 7; {{asc|III.}} ix. 10 
* Ephesus, a city of Ionia in Asia Minor, {{asc|III.}} iii. 7 
* Ephialtes, the betrayer of the Spartans at Thermopylae, {{asc|II.}} ii. 13 
* Epicydes, {{asc|III.}} iii. 2 
* Epidaurus, a town in Argolis, famed for the worship of Aesculapius, {{asc|II.}} xi. 1 
* Epirotes, {{asc|I.}} iv. 4; {{asc|II.}} iii. 21; {{asc|II.}} vi. 9; {{asc|III.}} iii. 1; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 2 
* Epirotica regio, {{asc|II.}} v. 10 
* Epirus, a province of northern Greece, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 8 
* Erythraei, the inhabitants of Erythaea in Boeotia, {{asc|II.}} v. 15 
* Etrusca lingua, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2 
* Etrusci, Etruscans, {{asc|i.}} viii. 3; {{asc|I.}} xi. 1; {{asc|II.}} v. 2; {{asc|II.}} vi. 7; {{asc|II.}} vii. 11 
* Etruscum bellum, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2; {{asc|I.}} ii. 7 
* Eumenes: (1) the Cardian, {{asc|iv.}} vii. 34 
** (2) king of Bithynia, {{asc|I.}} xi. 15 
* Euphrates, the river, {{asc|I.}} i. 6; {{asc|III.}} vii 4; {{asc|III.}} vii. 5 
* Europe, {{asc|II.}} vi. 8 
* Eurymedon River, {{asc|II.}} ix. 10 

* Fabius: (1) Q. Fabius Maximus Rullus, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2; {{asc|I.}} viii. 3; {{asc|I.}} xi. 21; {{asc|II.}} i. 8; {{asc|II.}} iv. 2; {{asc|II.}} v. 2; {{asc|IV.}} i. 35; {{asc|iv.}} i. 39 
** (2) Fabius Caeso, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2 
** (3) Q. Fabius Maximus Servilianus, {{asc|IV.}} i. 42 
** (4) Q. Fabius Maximus Cunctator, {{asc|I.}} iii. 3; {{asc|I.}} v. 28; {{asc|I.}} viii. 2; {{asc|I.}} xi. 4; {{asc|II.}} v. 22; {{asc|III.}} iv. 1; {{asc|III.}} ix. 2; {{asc|IV.}} vi. 1; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 36 
** (5) Q. Fabius Maximus, son of No. 4, {{asc|III.}} ix. 2; {{asc|IV.}} vi. 1 
** (6) M. Fabius Vibulanus, {{asc|I.}} xi. 1 ; {{asc|II.}} vi. 7; {{asc|II.}} vii. 11 
* Fabricius, a hero of the Roman republic, {{asc|IV.}} iii. 2; {{asc|iv.}} iv. 2 
* Falisci, the inhabitants of Falerii in Etruria, {{asc|II.}} iv. 18; {{asc|II.}} v. 9; {{asc|II.}} viii. 3; {{asc|II.}} viii. 8; {{asc|iv.}} iv. 1 
* Fidenae, a town in the Sabine territory, north of Rome, {{asc|II.}} v. 1 
* Fidenates, {{asc|II.}} iv. 19; {{asc|II.}} viii. 9 
* Fimbria, a partisan of Marius and Cinna, {{asc|III.}} xvii. 5 
* Flaccus, ''see'' Fulvius 
* Flaminius, a Roman general, defeated and slain by Hannibal, {{asc|II.}} v. 24 
* Flamma, ''see'' Calpumius 
* Fonteius Crassus, {{asc|I.}} v. 12; {{asc|IV.}} v. 8 
* Forum Gallorum, a town of Cisalpine Gaul, {{asc|II.}} v. 39 
* Fulvius: (1) Cn. Fulvius, {{asc|II.}} v. 9 
** (2) Cn. Fulvius Centumalus, {{asc|I.}} viii. 3 
** (3) Q. Fulvius Flaccus, consul 212 {{BC}}, {{asc|IV.}} i. 44 
** (4) Cn. Fvilvius Flaccus, consul 211 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} v. 21; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 29 
** (5) Q. Fulvius Flaccus, censor 174 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} v. 8 (''cf''. note); {{asc|IV.}} i. 33&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}
{{rvh|473|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* Decius: P. Decius Mus, (1) consul 340 {{BC}}, {{asc|I.}} v. 14; {{asc|IV.}} v. 9; {{asc|IV.}} v. 15 
** (2) Consul 295 {{BC}}, {{asc|I.}} viii. 3; {{asc|IV.}} V. 15 
* Dolminus, {{asc|III.}} vi. 2 
* Delphi, seat of the oracle of Apollo in Phocis, {{asc|I.}} xi. 11 
* Diana, the goddess, {{asc|III.}} ii. 5 
* Didius, {{asc|I.}} viii. 5; {{asc|II.}} x. 1 
* Diodotus, {{asc|III.}} xvi. 5 
* Dionysius, tyrant of Syracuse, {{asc|I.}} viii. 11; {{asc|III.}} iv. 3; {{asc|III.}} iv. 4 
* Dis, another name for Pluto, god of the underworld, {{asc|i.}} ii. 10 
* Domitian, the Emperor, {{asc|I.}} i. 8; {{asc|I.}} iii. 10; {{asc|II.}} iii. 23; {{asc|II.}} xi. 7; {{asc|iv.}} iii. 14 
* Domitius Calvinus, {{asc|III.}} ii. 1 
* Domitius Corbulo, a distinguished Roman general, {{asc|II.}} ix. 5; {{asc|iv.}} i. 21; {{asc|IV.}} i. 28; {{asc|IV.}} ii. 3; {{SIC|{{asc|VI.}} vii. 2|{{asc|IV.}} vii. 2}} 
* Duellius, winner of the first naval victory won by the Romans, {{asc|I.}} v. 6; {{asc|II.}} iii. 24; {{asc|III.}} ii. 2 
* Duillius, {{asc|I.}} v. 17 
* Dyrrhachium, a seaport town of Illyria, {{asc|II.}} vii. 13; {{asc|III.}} xvii. 4; {{asc|IV.}} i. 43 

* Elea, a city of Aeolis in Asia Minor, {{asc|IV.}} v. 16 
* Eleusis, a city of Attica, famous for the Eleusinian mysteries, {{asc|II.}} ix. 9 
* Enipeus, a river of Thessaly, {{asc|II.}} iii. 22 
* Epaminondas, the famous Theban general, {{asc|I.}} xi. 6; {{asc|I.}} xi. 16; {{asc|I.}} xii. 5; {{asc|I.}} xii.6; {{asc|I.}} xii. 7; {{asc|II.}} ii.l2; {{asc|II.}} v. 26; {{asc|III.}} ii. 7; {{asc|III.}} xi. 5; {{asc|III.}} xii. 3; {{asc|IV.}} ii. 6; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 6 
* Ephesii, the inhabitants of Ephesus, {{asc|III.}} iii. 7; {{asc|III.}} ix. 10 
* Ephesus, a city of Ionia in Asia Minor, {{asc|III.}} iii. 7 
* Ephialtes, the betrayer of the Spartans at Thermopylae, {{asc|II.}} ii. 13 
* Epicydes, {{asc|III.}} iii. 2 
* Epidaurus, a town in Argolis, famed for the worship of Aesculapius, {{asc|II.}} xi. 1 
* Epirotes, {{asc|I.}} iv. 4; {{asc|II.}} iii. 21; {{asc|II.}} vi. 9; {{asc|III.}} iii. 1; {{asc|IV.}} iii. 2 
* Epirotica regio, {{asc|II.}} v. 10 
* Epirus, a province of northern Greece, {{asc|II.}} xiii. 8 
* Erythraei, the inhabitants of Erythaea in Boeotia, {{asc|II.}} v. 15 
* Etrusca lingua, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2 
* Etrusci, Etruscans, {{asc|i.}} viii. 3; {{asc|I.}} xi. 1; {{asc|II.}} v. 2; {{asc|II.}} vi. 7; {{asc|II.}} vii. 11 
* Etruscum bellum, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2; {{asc|I.}} ii. 7 
* Eumenes: (1) the Cardian, {{asc|iv.}} vii. 34 
** (2) king of Bithynia, {{asc|I.}} xi. 15 
* Euphrates, the river, {{asc|I.}} i. 6; {{asc|III.}} vii 4; {{asc|III.}} vii. 5 
* Europe, {{asc|II.}} vi. 8 
* Eurymedon River, {{asc|II.}} ix. 10 

* Fabius: (1) Q. Fabius Maximus Rullus, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2; {{asc|I.}} viii. 3; {{asc|I.}} xi. 21; {{asc|II.}} i. 8; {{asc|II.}} iv. 2; {{asc|II.}} v. 2; {{asc|IV.}} i. 35; {{asc|iv.}} i. 39 
** (2) Fabius Caeso, {{asc|I.}} ii. 2 
** (3) Q. Fabius Maximus Servilianus, {{asc|IV.}} i. 42 
** (4) Q. Fabius Maximus Cunctator, {{asc|I.}} iii. 3; {{asc|I.}} v. 28; {{asc|I.}} viii. 2; {{asc|I.}} xi. 4; {{asc|II.}} v. 22; {{asc|III.}} iv. 1; {{asc|III.}} ix. 2; {{asc|IV.}} vi. 1; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 36 
** (5) Q. Fabius Maximus, son of No. 4, {{asc|III.}} ix. 2; {{asc|IV.}} vi. 1 
** (6) M. Fabius Vibulanus, {{asc|I.}} xi. 1 ; {{asc|II.}} vi. 7; {{asc|II.}} vii. 11 
* Fabricius, a hero of the Roman republic, {{asc|IV.}} iii. 2; {{asc|iv.}} iv. 2 
* Falisci, the inhabitants of Falerii in Etruria, {{asc|II.}} iv. 18; {{asc|II.}} v. 9; {{asc|II.}} viii. 3; {{asc|II.}} viii. 8; {{asc|iv.}} iv. 1 
* Fidenae, a town in the Sabine territory, north of Rome, {{asc|II.}} v. 1 
* Fidenates, {{asc|II.}} iv. 19; {{asc|II.}} viii. 9 
* Fimbria, a partisan of Marius and Cinna, {{asc|III.}} xvii. 5 
* Flaccus, ''see'' Fulvius 
* Flaminius, a Roman general, defeated and slain by Hannibal, {{asc|II.}} v. 24 
* Flamma, ''see'' Calpumius 
* Fonteius Crassus, {{asc|I.}} v. 12; {{asc|IV.}} v. 8 
* Forum Gallorum, a town of Cisalpine Gaul, {{asc|II.}} v. 39 
* Fulvius: (1) Cn. Fulvius, {{asc|II.}} v. 9 
** (2) Cn. Fulvius Centumalus, {{asc|I.}} viii. 3 
** (3) Q. Fulvius Flaccus, consul 212 {{BC}}, {{asc|IV.}} i. 44 
** (4) Cn. Fvilvius Flaccus, consul 211 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} v. 21; {{asc|IV.}} vii. 29 
** (5) Q. Fulvius Flaccus, censor 174 {{BC}}, {{asc|II.}} v. 8 (''cf''. note); {{asc|IV.}} i. 33&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}
{{rvh|473|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0uxvm3b6e5yc8bl848cdxxgmwf3nq0c</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Img float</title>
    <ns>11</ns>
    <id>3687391</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132307</id>
      <parentid>15110814</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:30:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cremastra</username>
        <id>3085872</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Centering */ Reply</comment>
      <origin>15132307</origin>
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      <text bytes="1900" sha1="k5irdad9bjijbsg2fbcqy5s63qtf1r7" xml:space="preserve">== img float and indented layout styles ==

The lack of &quot;text-indent:0;&quot; might be making this template clash with the layout styles that add a text indent.  At least, this was my experience.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:06, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

==Centering==
Seems there is something wrong with image centering, see [[Special:PermanentLink/15104989|my sandbox]]. It looks like an image can be centered only if the capalign parameter is centered too. Pinging {{ping|Cremastra}} who was doing something with the align parameter, although this problem probably does not have anything to do with that edit. Do you think you could have a look at it, please? --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:05, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan.Kamenicek]] My edit apparently did cause the problem, although I couldn't tell you why. It should work now. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra|talk]]) 22:46, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

::{{re|Cremastra}} Thanks for looking at the issue, but I am afraid it still does not work. The image in [[Special:PermanentLink/15104989|my sandbox]] should be centered (per &lt;code&gt;align = center&lt;/code&gt;) but it is left aligned instead. It seems to work only when the &lt;code&gt;capalign&lt;/code&gt; parameter is set to be centered simultaneously, but if it is not set or if it is set to &lt;code&gt;left&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code&gt;right&lt;/code&gt;, the image centering fails. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:40, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Then I have no idea. I tried reverting to a revision before I changed the parameter but that didn't fix it either, so I think this is either an old issue or a change to something else that trickled down onto this template through transclusion. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra|talk]]) 20:30, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Translation:Hunminjeongeum</title>
    <ns>114</ns>
    <id>3691293</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132511</id>
      <parentid>15109683</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:49:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Minomday</username>
        <id>3059688</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>The word “子” in 天开于子 refers to a Chinese zodiac, represented by the rat, therefore its meaning should differ greatly from the child.</comment>
      <origin>15132511</origin>
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      <text bytes="53121" sha1="1thg3xcj75kddznsxfqhirm1subh6wt" xml:space="preserve">[[File:조선어학회 훈민정음.pdf|thumb|Hunminjeongeum]]
{{translation header
 | title    = Hunminjeong'eum - Teaching of the Proper Sounds for the People
 | author   = Sejong the Great
 | section  = 
 | previous = 
 | next     = 
 | shortcut = 
 | year     = 1442–1443
 | language = ko
 | translator = 
 | original = 
 | notes    = The name '''Hunminjeong'eum''' (訓民正音, 훈민정음) simultaneously refers to the original writing system devised by King Sejong the Great of the Joseon dynasty of Korea (The Hunminjeong'eum system, which later evolves to become modern Hangul), as well as the documentation of said system written by Sejong and scholars in his service. Today, there are two versions of '''Hunminjeongeum''': there is the '''Hunminjeong'eum Haerye''' - Teaching of the Proper Sounds for the People with Explanations and Examples (訓民正音解例, 훈민정음해례) which has additional explanations behind the mechanism of the writing system, and there is also the '''Hunminjeong'eum Eonhae''' - Teaching of the Proper Sounds for the People Explained in Vernacular Language (訓民正音言解, 훈민정음언해), which adds to the initial documentation an in-line translation of the Classical Chinese to Middle Korean using the Huminjeong'eum system, as well as add two lines to the initial documentation about letters specifically for transcribing certain sounds used in China at the time. This source compiles both variations into one, as the documents largely overlap in content.
}}

== 訓民正音: Teaching of the Proper Sounds for the People ==

'''國之語音、異乎中國、與文字、不相流通。'''

As the language of the nation differs from that of China, the two are mutually unintelligible with the writing system,

'''故愚民有所欲言、而終不得伸其情者多矣。'''

And therefore, when the unlearned people have a will to speak, it's unavoidable that many of them cannot achieve the intent.

'''予爲此憫然、新制二十八字、欲使人人易習、便於日用耳。'''

I, for the pitiable situation, made twenty-eight new letters, and wish to let everyone easily learn and improve their daily work.

'''ㄱ牙音如君字初發聲、並書如虯字初發聲。'''

ㄱ is a dorsal sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:君|君]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''k'''ɨun/&lt;/ref&gt;, and written beside one another, they are like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:虯|虯]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''ɡ'''iɪu/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㅋ牙音如快字初發聲。'''

ㅋ is a dorsal sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:快|快]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''kʰ'''ˠuaiH/&lt;/ref&gt;. 

'''ㆁ牙音如業字初發聲。'''

ㆁ is a velar sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:業|業]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''ŋ'''ɨɐp̚/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㄷ舌音如斗字初發聲、並書如覃字初發聲。'''

ㄷ is a coronal sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:斗|斗]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''t'''əuX/&lt;/ref&gt;, and written beside one another, they are like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:覃|覃]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''d'''ʌm/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㅌ舌音如呑字初發聲。'''

ㅌ is a coronal sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:呑|呑]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''tʰ'''ən/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㄴ舌音如那字初發聲。'''

ㄴ is a coronal sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:那|那]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''n'''ɑX/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㅂ脣音如彆字初發聲、並書如步字初發聲。'''

ㅂ is a labial sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:彆|彆]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''p'''iᴇiH/&lt;/ref&gt;, and written beside one another, they are like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:步|步]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''b'''uoH/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㅍ脣音如漂字初發聲。'''

ㅍ is a labial sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:漂|漂]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /pʰiᴇu/&lt;/ref&gt;. 

''' ㅁ脣音如彌字初發聲'''

ㅁ is a labial sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:彌|彌]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /miᴇ/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㅈ齒音如卽字初發聲、並書如慈字初發聲。'''

ㅈ is a sibilant sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:卽|卽]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''t͡s'''ɨk̚/&lt;/ref&gt;, and written beside one another, they are like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:慈|慈]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''d͡z'''ɨ/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㅊ齒音如侵字初發聲。'''

ㅊ is a sibilant sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:侵|侵]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /t͡sʰiɪm/&lt;/ref&gt;. 

'''ㅅ齒音如戌字初發聲、並書如邪字初發聲。'''

ㅅ is a sibilant sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:戌|戌]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''s'''iuɪt̚/&lt;/ref&gt;, and written beside one another, they are like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:邪|邪]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''z'''ia/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㆆ喉音如挹字初發聖。'''

ㆆ is a laryngeal sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:挹|挹]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''ʔ'''iɪp̚/&lt;/ref&gt;. 

'''ㅎ喉音如虛字初發聲、並書如洪字初發聲。'''

ㅎ is a laryngeal sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:虛|虛]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /hɨʌ/&lt;/ref&gt;, and written beside one another, they are like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:洪|洪]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /ɦuŋ/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㅇ喉音如欲字初發聲。'''

ㅇ is a laryngeal sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:欲|欲]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /jɨok̚/. It is uncertain whether King Sejong was in fact referring to /j/ or a null initial.&lt;/ref&gt;. 

'''ㄹ半舌音如閭字初發聲。'''

ㄹ is a semi-coronal&lt;ref&gt;Most likely intended to mean &quot;lateral&quot;&lt;/ref&gt; sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:閭|閭]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''l'''ɨʌ/&lt;/ref&gt;. 

'''ㅿ半齒音如穰字初發聲。'''

ㅿ is a semi-sibilant&lt;ref&gt;The intended manner or place of articulation is unclear.&lt;/ref&gt; sound, one which is like the initial sound of the character [[wikt:穰|穰]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''ȵ'''ɨɐŋ/, but it is unclear whether this was the pronunciation familiar to Korean scholars at this time period. Another notable reconstruction for ㅿ is /z/&lt;/ref&gt;.


'''ㆍ如呑字中聲。ㅡ如卽字中聲。ㅣ如侵字中聲。'''

ㆍ is the middle sound of the character [[wikt:呑|呑]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /tʰ'''ə'''n/, but /ʌ/ is another notable reconstruction for ㆍ. &lt;/ref&gt;. ㅡ is the middle sound of the character [[wikt:卽|卽]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /t͡s'''ɨ'''k̚/&lt;/ref&gt;. ㅣis the middle sound of the character[[wikt:侵|侵]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /t͡sʰ'''iɪ'''m/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㅗ如洪字中聲。ㅏ如覃字中聲。'''

ㅗ is the middle sound of the character [[wikt:洪|洪]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /ɦ'''u'''ŋ/, but /o/ is another notable reconstruction for ㅗ as it is the modern-day reading.&lt;/ref&gt;. ㅏ is the middle sound of the character [[wikt:覃|覃]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /d'''ʌ'''m/, but /a/ is another notable reconstruction for ㅏ as it is the modern-day reading.&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㅜ如君字中聲。ㅓ如業字中聲。'''

ㅜ is the middle sound of the character [[wikt:君|君]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /k'''ɨu'''n/, but /u/ is another notable reconstruction for ㅜ as it is the modern-day reading.&lt;/ref&gt;. ㅓ is the middle sound of the character [[wikt:業|業]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /ŋ'''ɨɐ'''p̚/, but /ə/ is another notable reconstruction.&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㅛ如欲字中聲。ㅑ如穰字中聲'''

ㅛ is the middle sound of the character [[wikt:欲|欲]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /'''jɨo'''k̚/&lt;/ref&gt;. ㅑ is the middle sound of the character [[wikt:穰|穰]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /ȵ'''ɨɐ'''ŋ/&lt;/ref&gt;.

'''ㅠ如戍字中聲。ㅕ如彆字中聲。'''

ㅠ is the middle sound of the character [[wikt:戍|戍]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /ɕ'''ɨo'''H/&lt;/ref&gt;. ㅕ is the middle sound of the character [[wikt:彆|彆]]&lt;ref&gt;The Middle Chinese reconstruction Pronunciation is /p'''iᴇ'''iH/&lt;/ref&gt;.


'''終聲復用初聲。'''

For the ending sound, use the initial sound.

'''ㅇ連書脣音之下、卽爲脣輕音。'''

ㅇ below a labial sound is a light-labial&lt;ref&gt;Most likely referring to labial fricative sounds such as /f/ or /v/.&lt;/ref&gt; sound.

'''初聲合用、則並書、終聲同。'''

In using multiple initial sounds together, the rule shall be to write them next to each other, and for ending sounds it shall be the same.

'''ㆍㅡㅗㅜㅛㅠ 附書初聲之下'''

ㆍ, ㅡ, ㅗ, ㅜ, ㅛ, and ㅠ are to be written beneath the initial sound,

'''ㅣㅏㅓㅑㅕ 附書於右。'''

And ㅣ, ㅏ, ㅓ, ㅑ, and ㅕ are be written to the right of the initial sound. 

'''凡字必合而聲音'''

As all characters must be combined to make sound,

'''左加一點、則去聲'''

One dot on the left shall be ruled as being the departing tone&lt;ref&gt;See [[w:Four tones (Middle Chinese)|Four tones (Middle Chinese)]]&lt;/ref&gt;,

'''二則上聲、無則平聲'''

Two dots shall be ruled as being the rising tone, no dots shall be ruled as the level tone,

'''入聲加點同而促急。'''

and entering tones shall be same in adding dots, but also fast.

==訓民正音解例: The Proper Sounds for Instructing the People - Explanations and Examples==

===制字解: The Rules of the Characters Explained===

天地之道 一陰陽五行而已

The way of Heaven and Earth is simply the Yin and Yang and the Five Elements.

坤復之間爲太極 而動靜之後爲陰陽

In the interval between the Earth and the Cosmos lies the Taiji (the Supreme Ultimate), and the movements and stillness thereafter represent Yin and Yang.

凡有生類在天地之間者 捨陰陽而何之

Everything living within Heaven and Earth, what else could it be but Yin and Yang?

故人之聲音 皆有陰陽之理 顧人不察耳

Therefore, the sounds of human beings also follow the principle of Yin and Yang, but people do not notice it.

今正音之作 初非智營而力索

The creation of correct sound (or pronunciation) is not initially a matter of intellect or effort.

但因其聲音而極其理而已

It simply comes from the sound itself and is ultimately perfected through it.

理旣不二 則何得不與天地鬼神同其用也

If the principle is not dualistic, how can it not be in harmony with the use of heaven, earth, and the spirits?

正音二十八字, 各象其形而制之。 初聲凡十七字

Correct pronunciation consists of twenty-eight characters, each shaped according to its form. The initial sounds consist of a total of seventeen characters.

牙音ㄱ, 象舌根閉喉之形

The dental sound ㄱ resembles the shape of the tongue root closing the throat.

舌音ㄴ, 象舌附上腭之形

The tongue sound ㄴ resembles the shape of the tongue touching the hard palate.

脣音ㅁ, 象口形

Lip sound ㅁ, resembles the shape of the mouth.

齒音ㅅ, 象齒形

Dental sound ㅅ, resembles the shape of the teeth.

喉音ㅇ, 象喉形

Throat sound ㅇ, resembles the shape of the throat.

ㅋ比ㄱ, 聲出稍厲, 故加畫

ㅋ is sharper than ㄱ, hence the added stroke.

ㄴ而ㄷ, ㄷ而ㅌ, ㅁ而ㅂ, ㅂ而ㅍ, ㅅ而ㅈ, ㅈ而ㅊ, ㅇ而ㆆ, ㆆ而ㅎ, 其因聲加畫之義皆同, 而唯ㆁ爲異

ㄴ and ㄷ, ㄷ and ㅌ, ㅁ and ㅂ, ㅂ and ㅍ, ㅅ and ㅈ, ㅈ and ㅊ, ㅇ and ㆆ, ㆆ and ㅎ, their reason for the added strokes in sound is the same, but only ㆁ is different.

半舌音ㄹ, 半齒音ㅿ, 亦象舌齒之形而異其體, 無加畫之義焉

Half tongue sound ㄹ, half dental sound ㅿ, also resembles the shape of the tongue and teeth but differs in form, without the meaning of added strokes.

夫人之有聲, 本於五行。 故合諸四時而不悖, 叶之五音而不戾

The sounds of humans are based on the five elements. Therefore, they harmonize with the four seasons without conflict, and correspond to the five tones without deviation.

喉邃而潤, 水也

The throat is deep and moist, it is water.

聲虛而通。 如水虛明而流通也。 於時爲冬, 於音爲羽

The sound is empty and unobstructed, like water that is clear and flows freely. In terms of time, it represents winter; in terms of sound, it represents the feather.

牙錯而長, 木也

The teeth are crooked and long, it is wood.

聲似喉而實, 如木之生於水而有形也。 於時爲春, 於音爲角

The sound resembles the throat and is substantial, like wood growing in water and taking shape. In terms of time, it represents spring; in terms of sound, it represents the horn.

舌銳而動, 火也

The tongue is sharp and agile; it is fire.

聲轉而颺, 如火之轉展而揚揚也。 於時爲夏, 於音爲徵

The sound is shifting and rising, like fire that turns and spreads. In terms of time, it represents summer; in terms of sound, it represents the pitch.

齒剛而斷, 金也

The teeth are strong and sharp; it is metal.

聲屑而滯, 如金之屑𤨏 而鍛成也。 於時爲秋, 於音爲商

The sound is fragmented and stagnant, like metal shavings that are forged. In terms of time, it represents autumn; in terms of sound, it represents the scale.

脣方而合, 土也。

The lips are flat and closed; it is earth.

聲含而廣, 如土之含蓄萬物而廣大也。 於時爲季夏, 於音爲宮

The sound is contained and broad, like earth that holds and nurtures all things abundantly. In terms of time, it represents late summer; in terms of sound, it represents the scale.

然水乃生物之源, 火乃成物之用, 故五行之中, 水火爲大

Indeed, water is the source of life, and fire is the means of transformation. Therefore, among the five elements, water and fire are the most significant.

喉乃出聲之門, 舌乃辨聲之管, 故五音之中, 喉舌爲主也

The throat is the gateway of sound, and the tongue is the conduit for distinguishing sounds. Therefore, among the five tones, the throat and tongue are the primary elements.

喉居後而牙次之, 北東之位也

The throat is positioned at the back, with the teeth following; it corresponds to the northeast position.

舌齒又次之, 南西之位也

The tongue and teeth follow, corresponding to the southwest position.

脣居末, 土無定位而寄旺四季之義也

The lips are at the end, representing earth, which has no fixed position and embodies the vitality of the four seasons.

是則初聲之中, 自有陰陽五行方位之數也

Thus, within the initial sounds, there are inherent numbers corresponding to the yin and yang, the five elements, and their positions.

又以聲音淸濁而言之。 ㄱㄷㅂㅈㅅㆆ, 爲全淸。 ㅋㅌㅍㅊㅎ, 爲次淸。 ㄲㄸㅃㅉㅆㆅ, 爲全濁。 ㆁㄴㅁㅇㄹㅿ, 爲不淸不濁

Furthermore, when discussing sounds in terms of clarity and murkiness: ㄱ, ㄷ, ㅂ, ㅈ, ㅅ, ㆆ are considered fully clear. ㅋ, ㅌ, ㅍ, ㅊ, ㅎ are considered somewhat clear. ㄲ, ㄸ, ㅃ, ㅉ, ㅆ, ㆅ are considered fully murky. ㆁ, ㄴ, ㅁ, ㅇ, ㄹ, ㅿ are considered neither clear nor murky.

ㄴㅁㅇ, 其聲最不厲, 故次序雖在於後, 而象形制字則爲之始

ㄴ, ㅁ, ㅇ have the least sharp sounds; therefore, although they are ordered later, they are represented as the beginning in terms of shape and character formation.

ㅅㅈ雖皆爲全淸, 而ㅅ比ㅈ, 聲不厲, 故亦爲制字之始

Although ㅅ and ㅈ are both considered fully clear, ㅅ has a less sharp sound compared to ㅈ; therefore, it is also regarded as the beginning in character formation.

唯牙之ㆁ, 雖舌根閉喉聲氣出鼻, 而其聲與ㅇ相似, 故韻書疑與喩多相混用

Only the dental sound ㆁ, although produced with the tongue root closing the throat and the sound escaping through the nose, resembles the sound of ㅇ; therefore, rhyme books often confuse it with ㅇ.

今亦取象於喉, 而不爲牙音制字之始

Now it also takes its form from the throat, but it does not serve as the beginning for the formation of dental sounds.

盖喉屬水而牙屬木, ㆁ雖在牙而與ㅇ相似, 猶木之萌芽生於水而柔軟, 尙多水氣也

The throat belongs to water, while the teeth belong to wood. Although ㆁ is located with the teeth and resembles ㅇ, it is like the sprouting of wood that grows in water, remaining soft and still retaining much of the water's essence.

ㄱ木之成質, ㅋ木之盛長, ㄲ木之老壯, 故至此乃皆取象於牙也

ㄱ represents the essence of wood, ㅋ represents the flourishing growth of wood, and ㄲ represents the aged strength of wood; therefore, all of these take their form from the teeth.

全淸並書則爲全濁, 以其全淸之聲凝則爲全濁也

When fully clear sounds are combined, they become fully murky, as the clarity of their sounds condenses into murkiness.

唯喉音次淸爲全濁者, 盖以ㆆ聲深不爲之凝, ㅎ比ㆆ聲淺, 故凝而爲全濁也

Only the throat sound, which is somewhat clear, becomes fully murky; this is because the deep sound of ㆆ does not condense, while ㅎ, being shallower than ㆆ, condenses and thus becomes fully murky.

ㅇ連書脣音之下, 則爲脣輕音者, 以輕音脣乍合而喉聲多也

When ㅇ is combined with the lip sounds, it becomes a light lip sound, as the light sound of the lips briefly combines with the throat sound.

中聲凡十一字

The middle sounds consist of eleven characters.

ㆍ舌縮而聲深 天開於子也

ㆍ The tongue is retracted and the sound is deep; heaven opens in the rat.

形之圓 象乎天也

The round shape symbolizes heaven.

ㅡ舌小縮而聲不深不淺 地闢於丑也

ㅡ The tongue is slightly retracted, and the sound is neither deep nor shallow; the earth opens in the ox.

形之平 象乎地也

The flat shape symbolizes the earth.

ㅣ舌不縮而聲淺 人生於寅也

ㅣ The tongue is not retracted, and the sound is shallow; humanity is born in the tiger.

形之立 象乎人也

The upright shape symbolizes humanity.

此下八聲 一闔一闢

The following eight sounds are characterized by one closing and one opening.

ㅗ與ㆍ同而口蹙 其形則ㆍ與ㅡ合而成 取天地初交之義也

ㅗ is similar to ㆍ but with the mouth pursed; its shape combines ㆍ and ㅡ, representing the meaning of the initial interaction between heaven and earth.

ㅏ與ㆍ同而口張 其形則ㅣ與ㆍ合而成 取天地之用發於事物待人而成也

ㅏ is similar to ㆍ but with the mouth open; its shape combines ㅣ and ㆍ, representing the function of heaven and earth manifesting in the affairs of the world and in relation to humanity.

ㅜ與ㅡ同而口蹙 其形則ㅡ與ㆍ合而成 亦取天地初交之義也

ㅜ is similar to ㅡ but with the mouth pursed; its shape combines ㅡ and ㆍ, also representing the meaning of the initial interaction between heaven and earth.

ㅓ與ㅡ同而口張 其形則ㆍ與ㅣ合而成 亦取天地之用發於事物待人而成也

ㅓ is similar to ㅡ but with the mouth open; its shape combines ㆍ and ㅣ, also representing the function of heaven and earth manifesting in the affairs of the world and in relation to humanity.

ㅛ與ㅗ同而起於ㅣ

ㅛ is similar to ㅗ but arises from ㅣ.

ㅑ與ㅏ同而起於ㅣ

ㅑ is similar to ㅏ but arises from ㅣ.

ㅠ與ㅜ同而起於ㅣ

ㅠ is similar to ㅏ but arises from ㅣ.

ㅕ與ㅓ同而起於ㅣ

ㅕ is similar to ㅏ but arises from ㅣ.

ㅗㅏㅜㅓ始於天地 爲初出也

ㅗ, ㅏ, ㅜ, and ㅓ begin with heaven and earth; they represent the initial emergence.

ㅛㅑㅠㅕ起於ㅣ而兼乎人 爲再出也

ㅛ, ㅑ, ㅠ, and ㅕ arise from ㅣ and encompass humanity; they represent the second emergence.

ㅗㅏㅜㅓ之一其圓者 取其初生之義也

Among ㅗ, ㅏ, ㅜ, and ㅓ, the one that is round represents the meaning of initial birth.

ㅛㅑㅠㅕ之二其圓者 取其再生之義也

Among ㅛ, ㅑ, ㅠ, and ㅕ, the one that is round represents the meaning of rebirth.

ㅗㅏㅛㅑ之圓居上與外者 以其出於天而爲陽也

Among ㅗ, ㅏ, ㅛ, and ㅑ, the round ones that are positioned above and outward represent their emergence from heaven and signify the yang.

ㅜㅓㅠㅕ之圓居下與內者 以其出於地而爲陰也

Among ㅜ, ㅓ, ㅠ, and ㅕ, the round ones that are positioned below and inward represent their emergence from the earth and signify the yin.

ㆍ之貫於八聲者 猶陽之統陰而周流萬物也

The ㆍ that permeates the eight sounds is like the yang that unifies the yin and circulates through all things.

ㅛㅑㅠㅕ之皆兼乎人者 以人爲萬物之靈而能參兩儀也

The sounds ㅛ, ㅑ, ㅠ, and ㅕ, which all encompass humanity, regard humans as the spirit of all things and capable of participating in the dualities.


取象於天地人而三才之道備矣

Taking the forms from heaven, earth, and humanity, the way of the three talents is thus complete.

然三才爲萬物之先 而天又爲三才之始

Thus, the three talents are the foundation of all things, and heaven is the beginning of the three talents.

猶ㆍㅡㅣ三字爲八聲之首 而ㆍ又爲三字之冠也

Similarly, ㆍ, ㅡ, and ㅣ are the leaders of the eight sounds, and ㆍ is also the crown of these three characters.

ㅗ初生於天 天一生水之位也

ㅗ is born from heaven; it represents the position of water in the creation of heaven.

ㅏ次之 天三生木之位也

ㅏ follows; it represents the position of wood in the third creation of heaven.

ㅜ初生於地 地二生火之位也

ㅜ is born from the earth; it represents the position of fire in the second creation of the earth.

ㅓ次之 地四生金之位也

ㅓ follows; it represents the position of metal in the fourth creation of the earth.

ㅛ再生於天 天七成火之數也

ㅛ is reborn from heaven; it represents the number seven in the formation of fire from heaven.

ㅑ次之 天九成金之數也

ㅑ follows; it represents the number nine in the formation of metal from heaven.

ㅠ再生於地 地六成水之數也

ㅠ is reborn from the earth; it represents the number six in the formation of water from the earth.

ㅕ次之 地八成木之數也

ㅕ follows; it represents the number eight in the formation of wood from the earth.

水火未離乎氣 陰陽交合之初 故闔

Water and fire are not yet separated from the essence; it is the beginning of the union of yin and yang. Therefore, it is closed.

木金陰陽之定質 故闢

The fixed qualities of wood and metal in yin and yang are established; therefore, it is opened.

ㆍ天五生土之位也

ㆍ represents the position of earth in the fifth creation of heaven.

ㅡ地十成土之數也

ㅡ represents the number ten in the formation of earth from the earth.

ㅣ獨無位數者 盖以人則無極之眞 二五之精 妙合而凝 固未可以定位成數論也

ㅣ uniquely has no positional number because, in humanity, it embodies the ultimate truth of the boundless, the essence of two and five, which harmoniously combine and condense; thus, it cannot be fixed in a numerical theory.

是則中聲之中 亦自有隂陽五行方位之數也

Thus, within the middle sounds, there are also inherent numbers corresponding to the yin and yang, the five elements, and their positions.

以初聲對中聲而言之。

When comparing the initial sounds to the middle sounds.

隂陽，天道也。

Yin and yang are the principles of the heavenly way.

剛柔，地道也。

Hardness and softness are the principles of the earthly way.

中聲者，一深一淺一闔一闢，是則隂陽分而五行之氣具焉, 天之用也。

The middle sounds consist of one deep, one shallow, one closing, and one opening; thus, the division of yin and yang and the presence of the five elements' essence are fulfilled, representing the function of heaven.

初聲者，或虗或實或颺或滯或重若軽，是則剛柔著而五行之質成焉，地之功也。

The initial sounds are either empty or solid, rising or stagnant, heavy or light; thus, the characteristics of hardness and softness are evident, and the qualities of the five elements are formed, representing the function of the earth.

中聲以深淺闔闢唱之於前，初聲以五音清濁和之於後，而為初亦為終。

The middle sounds, with their depth and shallowness, closing and opening, are sung in the front, while the initial sounds, with their clarity and murkiness, harmonize in the back; thus, they serve as both the beginning and the end.

亦可見萬物初生於地，復歸於地也。

It can also be seen that all things are initially born from the earth and ultimately return to the earth.

以初中終合成之字言之，亦有動静互根隂陽交變之義焉。

When considering the characters formed by the initial, middle, and final sounds, there is also the meaning of movement and stillness, mutually rooted in the interplay of yin and yang.

動者，天也。

Movement represents heaven.

静者，地也。

Stillness represents earth.

兼互動静者，人也。

The combination of movement and stillness represents humanity.

盖五行在天則神之運也，在地則質之成也，在人則仁禮信義智神之運也，肝心脾肺腎，質之成也。

The five elements, when in heaven, represent the movement of the divine; when in the earth, they represent the formation of substance; and in humanity, they embody the virtues of benevolence, righteousness, propriety, wisdom, and faith, as well as the functioning of the liver, heart, spleen, lungs, and kidneys, which constitute the essence of substance.

初聲有彂動之義，天之事也。

The initial sounds carry the meaning of dynamic movement; they pertain to the affairs of heaven.

終聲有止㝎之義，地之事也。

The final sounds carry the meaning of cessation; they pertain to the affairs of the earth.

中聲承初之生，接終之成，人之事也。

The middle sounds connect the emergence of the initial sounds and the completion of the final sounds; they pertain to the affairs of humanity.

盖字韻之要，在於中聲，初終合而成音。

The essence of the phonetics of characters lies in the middle sounds, where the initial and final sounds combine to form the complete sound.

亦猶天地生成萬物，而其財成輔相則必頼乎人也。

Just as heaven and earth generate all things, their resources and support must rely on humanity.

終聲之，復用初聲者，以其動而陽者乾也，静而隂者亦乾也，乾實分隂陽而無不君宰也。

The final sounds, which revert to the initial sounds, signify that the dynamic and yang aspect is represented by the dry, while the still and yin aspect is also represented by the dry. The dry essence divides yin and yang and governs all without exception.

一元之氣，周流不窮，四時之運，循環無端，故貞而復元，冬而復春。初聲之復為終，終聲之復為初，亦此義也。

The essence of the singular principle circulates endlessly, and the movement of the four seasons is a continuous cycle; thus, it returns to its origin, winter returns to spring. The return of the initial sounds to become the final sounds, and the return of the final sounds to become the initial sounds, also embodies this meaning.

旴，正音作而天地萬物之理咸備，其神矣㦲。

When the correct sounds are produced, the principles of heaven, earth, and all things are fully present, and their essence is thus manifested.

是殆天啓聖心而假手焉者乎。

This is likely the divine inspiration of the heavenly heart, which is expressed through human hands.

==== 訣曰: Summarized ====

天地之化本一氣

陰陽五行相始終

物於兩間有形聲

元本無二理數通

正音制字尙其象

因聲之厲每加畫

音出牙舌脣齒喉

是爲初聲字十七

牙取舌根閉喉形

唯業似欲取義別

舌迺象舌附上腭

脣則實是取口形

齒喉直取齒喉象

知斯五義聲自明

又有半舌半齒音

取象同而體則異

那彌戌欲聲不厲

次序雖後象形始

配諸四時與冲氣

五行五音無不協

維喉爲水冬與羽

牙迺春木其音角

徵音夏火是舌聲

齒則商秋又是金

脣於位數本無定

土而季夏爲宮音

聲音又自有淸濁

要於初發細推尋

全淸聲是君斗彆

卽戌挹亦全淸聲

若迺快呑漂侵虛

五音各一爲次淸

全濁之聲虯覃步

又有慈邪亦有洪

全淸並書爲全濁

唯洪自虛是不同

業那彌欲及閭穰

其聲不淸又不濁

欲之連書爲脣輕

喉聲多而脣乍合

中聲十一亦取象

精義未可容易觀

呑擬於天聲最深

所以圓形如彈丸

卽聲不深又不淺

其形之平象乎地

侵象人立厥聲淺

三才之道斯爲備

洪出於天尙爲闔

象取天圓合地平

覃亦出天爲已闢

發於事物就人成

用初生義一其圓 

出天爲陽在上外

欲穰兼人爲再出

二圓爲形見其義

君業戌彆出於地

據例自知何湏評

呑之爲字貫八聲

維天之用徧流行

四聲兼人亦有由

人參天地爲最靈

且就三聲究至理

自有剛柔與陰陽

中是天用陰陽分

初迺地功剛柔彰

中聲唱之初聲和

天先乎地理自然

和者爲初亦爲終

物生復歸皆於坤

陰變爲陽陽變陰 

一動一靜互爲根
	
初聲復有發生義

爲陽之動主於天
	
終聲比地陰之靜

字音於此止定焉

韻成要在中聲用 

人能輔相天地宜

陽之爲用通於陰

至而伸則反而歸

初終雖云分兩儀

終用初聲義可知
 
正音之字只卄八 

探賾錯綜窮深幾
	
指遠言近牖民易 

天授何曾智巧爲

===初聲解: The Initial Sounds Explained===

正音初聲，卽韻書之字母也。

聲音由此而生，故曰母。

如牙音君字初聲是ㄱ，ㄱ與ᅟᅮᆫ而為군。

快字初聲是ㅋ，ㅋ與ㅙ而為쾌〮。

虯字初聲是ㄲ，ㄲ與ㅠ而為뀨。

業字初聲是ㆁ，ㆁ與ᅟᅥᆸ而為ᅌᅥᆸ之類。

舌之斗呑𫟛那，脣之彆漂步彌，齒之卽侵慈戌邪，喉之挹虗洪欲，半舌半齒之閭穰，皆倣此。

==== 訣曰: Summarized ====

'''君快虯業其聲牙'''

The characters 君, 快, 虯, 業 are pronounced dorsally.

'''舌聲斗呑及𫟛那'''

The tongue pronounces the characters 斗, 呑, 𫟛, and 那.

'''彆漂步彌則是脣'''

The characters 彆, 漂, 步, 彌 therefore are labial.

'''齒有卽侵慈戌邪'''

The teeth have the sounds of the characters 卽侵慈戌邪.

'''挹虗洪欲迺喉聲'''

The characters 挹虛洪欲 are therefore of glottal sounds.

'''閭為半舌穰半齒'''

The character 閭 is semi-coronal, and the character 穰 is semi-dental.

'''二十三字是為母'''

These twenty three characters are the mother-sounds.

'''萬聲生生皆自此'''

All sounds therefore are birthed from here.

===中聲解: The Middle Sounds Explained===

中聲者, 居字韻之中, 合初終而成音。

如呑字中聲是ㆍ, ㆍ居ㅌㄴ之間而爲。　

卽字中聲是ㅡ, ㅡ居ㅈㄱ之間而爲즉。

侵字中聲是ㅣ, ㅣ居ㅊㅁ之間而爲침之類。

洪覃君業欲穰戌彆, 皆倣此。

二字合用者, ㅗ與ㅏ同出於ㆍ, 故合而爲ㅘ。

ㅛ與ㅑ又同出於ㅣ, 故合而爲ㆇ。

ㅜ與ㅓ同出於ㅡ, 故合而爲ㅝ。

ㅠ與ㅕ又同出於ㅣ 故合而爲ㆊ。

以其同出而爲類, 故相合而不悖也。

一字中聲之與ㅣ相合者十, ㅓㅢㅚㅐㅟㅔㆉㅒㆌㅖ是也。

二字中聲之與ㅣ相合者四, ㅙㅞㆈㆋ是也。

ㅣ於深淺闔闢之聲, 竝能相隨者, 以其舌展聲淺而便於開口也。

亦可見人之參贊開物而無所不通也。

====訣曰:Summarized====

母字之音各有中

須就中聲尋闢闔
	
洪覃自呑可合用
	
君業出卽亦可合
	
欲之與穰戌與彆
	
各有所從義可推
	
侵之爲用最居多
	
於十四聲徧相隨

===終聲解: The Final Sounds Explained===

終聲者，承初中而成字韻。

如卽字終聲是ㄱ，ㄱ居즈終而為즉。

洪字終聲是ㆁ，ㆁ居ᅘᅩ終而為ᅘᅩᇰ之類。

舌脣齒喉皆同。

聲有緩急之殊，故平上去其終聲不類入聲之促急。

不清不濁之字，其聲不厲，故用於終則宜於平上去。

全清次清全濁之字，其聲為厲，故用於終則宜於入。

所以ㆁㄴㅁㅇㄹㅿ六字為平上去聲之終，而餘皆為入聲之終也。

然ㄱㆁㄷㄴㅂㅁㅅㄹ八字可足用也。

如ᄇᆡᆺ곶為梨花，여ᇫ의갗為狐皮，而ㅅ字可以通用。

故只用ㅅ字。

且ㅇ聲淡而虗，不必用於終，而中聲可得成音也。

ㄷ如볃為彆，ㄴ如군為君，ㅂ如ᅌᅥᆸ為業，ㅁ如땀為𫟛，ㅅ如諺語옷〮為衣，ㄹ如諺語실〯為絲之類。

五音之緩急，亦各自為對如牙之ㆁ與ㄱ為對，而ㆁ促呼則變為ㄱ而急，ㄱ舒出則變為ㆁ而緩。

舌之ㄴㄷ，脣之ㅁㅂ，齒之ㅿㅅ，喉之ㅇㆆ，其緩急相對，亦猶是也。

且半舌之ㄹ，當用於諺，而不可用於文。

如入聲之彆字，終聲當用ㄷ，而俗習讀為ㄹ，盖ㄷ變而為軽也。

若用ㄹ為彆之終，則其聲舒緩，不為入也。

==== 訣曰: Summarized ====

不清不濁用於終

為平上去不為入

全清次清及全濁

是皆為入聲促急

初作終聲理固然

只將八字用不窮

唯有欲聲所當處

中聲成音亦可通

若書卽字終用君

洪彆亦以業斗終

君業𫟛終又何如

以那彆彌次第推

六聲通乎文與諺

戌閭用於諺衣絲

五音緩急各自對

君聲迺是業之促

斗彆聲緩為那彌

穰欲亦對戌與挹

閭宜於諺不宜文

斗軽為閭是俗習

===合字解: The Combination of Characters Explained===

初中終三聲，合而成字。

初聲或在中聲之上，或在中聲之左。

如君字ㄱ在ㅜ上，業字ㆁ在ㅓ左之類。

中聲則圓者橫者在初聲之下，ㆍㅡㅗㅛㅜㅠ是也。

縱者在初聲之右 ㅣㅏㅑㅓㅕ是也。

如呑字ㆍ在ㅌ下，卽字ㅡ在ㅈ下，侵字ㅣ在ㅊ右之類。

終聲在初中之下。

如君字ㄴ在구下，業字ㅂ在ᅌᅥ下之類。

初聲二字三字合用並書，如諺語ᄯᅡ〮為地，ᄧᅡᆨ為雙，ᄢᅳᆷ〮為隙之類。

各自並書，如諺語혀〮為舌而ᅘᅧ〮為引，괴여〮為我愛人而괴ᅇᅧ〮為人愛我，소다〮為䨱物而쏘다〮為射之之類。

中聲二字三字合用，如諺語과〮為琴柱，홰〮為炬之類。

終聲二字三字合用，如諺語ᄒᆞᆰ為𡈽，낛〮為釣，ᄃᆞᇌᄣᅢ〮為酉時之類。

其合用並書，自左而右，初中終三聲皆同。

文與諺雜用則有因字音而補以中終聲者，如孔子ㅣ魯ㅅ사〯ᄅᆞᆷ之類。

諺語平上去入，如활為弓而其聲平，돌〯為石而其聲上，갈〮為刀而其聲去，붇〮為筆而其聲入之類。

凡字之左，加一㸃為去聲，二㸃為上聲，無㸃為平聲，而文之入聲，與去聲相似。

諺之入聲無㝎，或似平聲，如긷為柱，녑為脅。或似上聲如낟〯為穀。

깁〯為繒。

或似去聲，如몯〮為釘，입〮為口之類。

其加㸃則與平上去同。

平聲安而和，春也，萬物舒泰。

上聲和而擧，夏也，萬物漸盛。

去聲擧而壯，秋也，萬物成熟。

入聲促而塞，冬也，萬物閉蔵。

初聲之ㆆ與ㅇ相似，於諺可以通用也。

半舌有軽重二音。

然韻書字母唯一，且國語雖不分軽重，皆得成音。

若欲備用，則依脣軽例，ㅇ連書ㄹ下，為半舌軽音，舌乍附上腭。

ㆍㅡ起ㅣ聲，於國語無用。

兒童之言，𨘢野之語，或有之，當合二字而用，如ᄀᆝᄀᆜ之類，其先縱後橫，與他不同。

==== 訣曰: Summarized ====

'''初聲在中聲左上'''

The initial sounds are written above or to the left of the middle sounds.

'''挹欲於諺用相同'''

The (initial sounds of the) characters 挹 and 欲, in our speech, are used interchangeably. 

'''中聲十一附初聲'''

The eleven middle sounds, when being attached to the initial sounds,

'''圓橫書下，右書縱'''

The round and the horizontal are written below, to the right written are the vertical.

'''欲書終聲在何處'''

If one wants to write the final sound, where should it be placed?

'''初中聲下接着寫'''

Below the initial and the middle sound it should be attached and written.

'''初終合用各並書'''

When using together initials or finals, each are to be written aside one another,

'''中亦有合悉自左'''

And medials too, if such cases exist, are to be written all together from the left.

'''諺之四聲何以辨'''

In our speech, how are the four tones distinguished?

'''平聲則弓上則石'''

The level tone is that of the character 弓, the rising that of the character 石

'''刀為去而筆為入'''

The character 刀 is the parting, and 筆 is entering.

'''觀此四物他可識'''

Looking at these four things, other things can be made known.

'''音因左㸃四聲分'''

Based on the sound, dots on the left can differentiate the four tones.

'''一去二上無㸃平'''

One is parting, two is rising, none is level.

'''語入無㝎亦加㸃'''

In our speech, entering tones have no dots of their own but instead added like other tones;

'''文之入則似去聲'''

In reading Chinese characters, entering tones are the alike the parting tone.

'''方言俚語萬不同'''

As all local dialects and common speech are different,

'''有聲無字書難通'''

Whenever there existed sounds for which there were no characters to write had made communication difficult.

'''一朝制作侔神工'''

(However,) one morning, a work of divine craftsmanship was made,

'''大東千古開朦朧'''

And in the great nation of the East, the darkness of a thousand generations was parted.

===用字例: The Use of the Characters Exemplified=== 

====初聲: Initial Sounds====
'''ㄱ，如감〯為柿，ᄀᆞᆯ〮為蘆。'''

The initial sound ㄱ is the same as that in 감〯 as in persimmon, and ᄀᆞᆯ〮 as in reeds。

'''ㅋ，如우케〮為未舂稻，코ᇰ為大豆。'''

The initial sound ㅋ is the same as that in 우케〮 as in unchaffed rice, or 코ᇰ as in beans。

'''ㆁ，如러ᅌᅮᆯ〮為獺，서ᅌᅦ〮為流凘。'''

The initial sound ㆁ is the same as that in 러ᅌᅮᆯ〮 as in the [[w: Raccoon dog|Neoguri]], or 서ᅌᅦ〮 as in an ice floe。

'''ㄷ，如뒤〮為茅，담〮為墻。'''

The initial sound ㄷ is the same as that in 뒤〮 as in belt, or 담〮 as in wall。

'''ㅌ，如고티〮為繭，두텁為 蟾蜍。'''

The initial sound ㅌ is the same as that in 고티〮 as in cocoon, or 두텁 as in toad。

'''ㄴ，如노로為獐，납為猿。'''

The initial sound ㄴ is the same as that in 노로 as in [[w: Water deer|Noru deer]], or 납 as in monkey。

'''ㅂ，如ᄇᆞᆯ為臂，벌〯為蜂。'''

The initial sound ㅂ is the same as that in ᄇᆞᆯ as in arm, or 벌〯 as in bee。

'''ㅍ，如파〮為葱，ᄑᆞᆯ〮為蠅。'''

The initial sound ㅍ is the same as that in 파〮 as in spring onion, or ᄑᆞᆯ〮 as in houseflies。

'''ㅁ，如뫼〯為山，마〮為薯藇。'''

The initial sound ㅁ is the same as that in 뫼〯 as in mountain, or 마〮 as in [[w:Chinese yam|yams]]。

'''ㅸ，如사ᄫᅵ〮為蝦，드ᄫᅴ〮為瓠。'''

The initial sound ㅸ is the same as that in 사ᄫᅵ〮 as in shrimp, or 드ᄫᅴ〮 as in gourd。

'''ㅈ，如자〮為尺，죠ᄒᆡ〮為紙。'''

The initial sound ㅈ is the same as that in 자〮 as in [[w:Chi_(unit)|measuring foot]], or 죠ᄒᆡ〮 as in paper。

'''ㅊ，如체〮為籭，채為鞭。'''

The initial sound ㅊ is the same as that in 체〮 as in sieve, or 채 as in whip。

'''ㅅ，如손〮為手，셤〯為島。'''

The initial sound ㅅ is the same as that in 손〮 as in hand, or 셤〯 as in island。

'''ㅎ，如부〮허ᇰ為鵂鶹，힘〮為筋。'''

The initial sound ㅎ is the same as that in 부〮허ᇰ as in owl, or 힘〮 as in strength。

'''ㅇ，如비〮육為鷄雛，ᄇᆞ〮얌為蛇。'''

The initial sound ㅇ is the same as that in 비〮육 as in chick, or ᄇᆞ〮얌 as in snake。

'''ㄹ，如무〮뤼為雹，어름〮為氷。'''

The initial sound ㄹ is the same as that in 무〮뤼 as falling hail, or 어름〮 as in ice。

'''ㅿ，如아ᅀᆞ為弟，너〯ᅀᅵ為鴇。'''

The initial sound ㅿ is the same as that in 아ᅀᆞas in younger brother, or 너〯ᅀᅵas in the [[w:Great bustard|Neushi]] bird。

====中聲: Middle Sounds ====

'''ㆍ，如ᄐᆞᆨ〮為頤，ᄑᆞᆺ〮為小豆，ᄃᆞ리為橋，ᄀᆞ〮래為楸。'''

The middle sound ㆍ is the same as that in ᄐᆞᆨ〮 as in chin, ᄑᆞᆺ〮 as in peas, ᄃᆞ리 as in leg, or ᄀᆞ〮래 as in [[w:Juglans mandshurica|Garae tree]]。 

'''ㅡ，如믈〮為水，발〮측〮為跟，그력為雁，드레〮為汲器。'''

The middle sound ㅡ is the same as that in 믈〮 as in water, 발〮측〮 as in heel, 그력 as in wild geese, or 드레〮 as in bucket。 

'''ㅣ，如깃〮為巢，밀〯為蠟，피〮為稷，키〮為箕。'''

The middle sound ㅣ is the same as that in 깃〮 as in nest, 밀〯 as in wax, 피〮 as in millet, or 키〮 as in winnowing basket。

'''ㅗ，如논〮為水田，톱〮為鉅，호ᄆᆡ〮為鉏，벼로〮為硯。'''

The middle sound ㅗ is the same as that in 논〮 as in rice paddy, 톱〮 as in saw, 호ᄆᆡ〮 as in handhoe, or 벼로〮 as in inkstone。

'''ㅏ，如밥〮為飯，낟〮為鎌，이ᅌᅡ〮為綜，사ᄉᆞᆷ〮為鹿。'''

The middle sound ㅏ is the same as that in 밥〮 as in a meal, 낟〮 as in scythe, 이ᅌᅡ〮 as in heddle, or 사ᄉᆞᆷ〮 as in deer。 

'''ㅜ，如숫為炭，울〮為籬，누에〮為蠶，구리〮為銅。'''

The middle sound ㅜ is the same as that in 숫 as in charcoal, 울〮 as in fence, 누에〮 as in silkworms, or 구리〮 as in copper。 

'''ㅓ，如브ᅀᅥᆸ為竈，널〯為板，서리〮為霜，버들〮為柳。'''

The middle sound ㅓ is the same as that in 브ᅀᅥᆸ as in kitchen, 널〯 as in a board of wood, 서리〮 as in frost, or 버들〮 as in willow tree。 

'''ㅛ，如죠ᇰ〯為奴，고〮욤為梬，쇼〮為牛，삽됴為蒼朮菜。'''

The middle sound ㅛ is the same as that in 죠ᇰ〯 as in slave, 고〮욤 as in date-plum tree, 쇼〮 as in cow, or 삽됴 as in [[w:Atractylodes lancea|Sapju herb]]

'''ㅑ，如남샤ᇰ為龜，약為𪓟鼊，다야〮為𠤷，쟈감為蕎麥皮。'''

The middle sound ㅑ is the same as that in 남샤ᇰ as in turtle, 약 as in tortoise, 다야〮 as in washbasin, or 쟈감 as in buckwheat shells。 

'''ㅠ，如율믜為薏苡，쥭為飯𣖄，슈룹〮為雨繖，쥬련為帨。'''

The middle sound ㅠ is the same as that in 율믜 as in adlay millet, 쥭 as in rice paddle, 슈룹〮 as in umbrella, or 쥬련 as in handkerchief。

'''ㅕ，如엿〮為飴餹，뎔為佛寺，벼為稻，져〯비為燕。'''

The middle sound ㅕ is the same as that in 엿〮 as in toffee, 뎔 as in a Buddhist temple, 벼 as in rice, or 져〯비 as in swallow。 

====終聲: Final Sounds ====

'''ㄱ，如닥為楮，독為甕。'''

The final sound ㄱ is the same as that in 닥 as in mulberry, or 독 as in pottery。

'''ㆁ，如굼〯버ᇰ為 蠐螬，올〮차ᇰ為蝌蚪。'''

The final sound ㆁ is the same as that in 굼〯버ᇰ as in beetle grub, or 올〮차ᇰ as in tadpole。

'''ㄷ，如갇〮為笠，싣為楓。'''

The final sound ㄷ is the same as that in 갇〮 as in hat, or 싣 as in maple tree。

'''ㄴ，如신〮為屨，반〮되為螢。'''

The final sound ㄴ is the same as that in 신〮 as in shoes, or 반〮되 as in fireflies。 

'''ㅂ，如섭為薪，굽〮為蹄。'''

The final sound ㅂ is the same as that in 섭 as in firewood, or 굽〮 as in hoof。

'''ㅁ，如범〯為虎，ᄉᆡᆷ〯為泉。'''

The final sound ㅁ is the same as that in 범 as in tiger, or ᄉᆡᆷ〯 as in a spring of water。

'''ㅅ，如잣〯為海松，못〮為池。'''

The final sound ㅅ is the same as that in 잣〯 as in the pine nuts, or 못〮 as in pond。

'''ㄹ，如ᄃᆞᆯ〮為月，별〯為星之類。'''

The final sound ㄹ is the same as that in ᄃᆞᆯ〮 as in moon, or 별〯 as in star。

==鄭麟趾 後序: Jeong In-ji's Closing Remarks==

'''有天地自然之聲, 則必有天地自然之文.'''

As there is natural speech in this world, there must be natural writing in this world.

'''所以古人因聲制字, 以通萬物之情, 以載三才之道, 而後世不能易也.'''

Following this, old men have made characters bound by sound, contained within them the nature of all matter within the (which is to say the paths of the three elements&lt;ref&gt;&quot;Heaven, Earth, Man&lt;/ref&gt;), and this is a matter that cannot be changed by future generations.

'''然四方風土區別, 聲氣亦隨而異焉.'''

But as the customs of the land differ across all four corners of the earth, speech as well are different.

'''蓋外國之語, 有其聲而無其字.'''

Usually languages of foreign nations &lt;ref&gt;relative to China&lt;/ref&gt; have different languages but do not have writing.

'''假中國之字以通其用, 是猶枘鑿之鉏鋙也, 豈能達而無礙乎.'''

As such, the characters of China are used, but that is in fact akin to fitting a square tool handle in a round hole, so how would such be possible without difficulty?

'''要皆各隨所處而安, 不可强之使同也.'''

To the needs of each adherence brings ease, therefore it is impossible to force everyone into conformity.

'''吾東方禮樂文章, 侔擬華夏, 但方言俚語, 不與之同.'''

We to the East of China have traditions, culture, and customs that are comparable to the Chinese people, but in language, we are different.

'''學書者患其旨趣之難曉, 治獄者病其曲折之難通.'''

The learned worry of its difficulty in instruction, and those who rule ail from twisted and difficult communication.

'''昔新羅薛聰, 始作吏讀, 官府民間, 至今行之.'''

Before, Seok Chong of Silla devised the Idu System, which government officials and the civil population to this day use.

'''然皆假字而用, 或澁或窒.'''

However, as it uses Chinese characters, there are annoyances and limitations.

'''非但鄙陋無稽而已, 至於言語之間, 則不能達其萬一焉.'''

It is howevermore also superficial and baseless, and in modern communication, it is unable to communicate even the most simple things.

'''癸亥冬, 我殿下創制正音二十八字, 略揭例義以示之, 名曰訓民正音.'''

In the winter of the Water-Pig year &lt;ref&gt;Winter of the 60th year of the [[w:Sexagenary cycle]], 1443&lt;/ref&gt;, His Majesty has created the 28 letters of the Hunminjeong'eum System, briefly demonstrated examples, and named it as the Hunminjeong'eum.

'''象形而字倣古篆, 因聲而音叶七調.'''

Its form is that of the scripts of old&lt;ref&gt;Scholars debate the nature of the script referred to here. Theories include earlier forms of Chinese characters, Non-Idu writing systems devised in Korea prior, 'Phags-pa, Siddham script, or another writing system not known today.&lt;/ref&gt; but it is bound to sounds and to the seven articulations. 

'''三極之義, 二氣之妙, 莫不該括.'''

In both the order of three elements&lt;ref&gt;Heaven, Earth, Man&lt;/ref&gt;, the mystery of two energies&lt;ref&gt;Yin and Yang&lt;/ref&gt;, it encompasses all. 

'''以二十八字而轉換無窮, 簡而要, 精而通.'''

The mutations of the 28 characters are infinite, easy to write, and easy to communicate meaning.

'''故智者不終朝而會, 愚者可浹旬而學.'''

As such, a smart man need not more than the morning to learn, and even a fool can learn it in ten days.

'''以是解書, 可以知其義. 以是聽訟, 可以得其情.'''

With this, books can be understood and know its intent. With this, lawsuits in a court of law can have its details be gleaned.

'''字韻則淸濁之能辨, 樂歌則律呂之克諧.'''

With this, the specific sounds of a Chinese character are made clear, and a song's melodies are made harmonious. 

'''無所用而不備, 無所往而不達.'''

It falls short nowhere in use.

'''雖風聲鶴唳, 鷄鳴狗吠, 皆可得而書矣.'''

Be it the sound of the wind blowing, a crane crowing, a rooster clucking, a dog barking, it can all be written.

'''遂命詳加解釋, 以喩諸人.'''

But only now were we ordered to add a more detailed explanation so that all would understand.

'''於是, 臣與集賢殿應敎臣崔恒,'''

Because of this, a humble servant of His Majesty, with [[w:Choe Hang (Joseon_civil_minister)|Choe Hang]] the Eung-gyo&lt;ref&gt;Literally &quot;Responding Instruction&quot;, the Eung-gyo were responsible for answering questions that the king had in a Confucian royal court.&lt;/ref&gt; of the [[w:Hall of Worthies|Hall of Gathered Wisdom]]&lt;ref&gt;A more accurate translation of [[w:Hall of Worthies]].&lt;/ref&gt;

'''副校理臣朴彭年, 臣申叔舟,'''

The Vice Royal Scribes [[w:Pak Paengnyeon|Pak Paengnyeon]] and [[w:Sin Sukju|Sin Sukju]], 

'''修撰臣成三問, 敦寧府注簿臣姜希顔,'''

Court Historian [[w:Seong Sam-mun|Seong Sam-mun]], [[w:Gang Hui-an|Gang Hui-an]] from the [[w:ko:돈녕부|Ministry of Royal Affairs]],

'''行集賢殿副修撰臣李塏, 臣李善老等,'''

Acting Vice Historian of the Hall of Gathered Wisdom [[w:Yi Gae|Yi Gae]], a servant of His Majesty [[w:ko:이현로 (인물)|Yi Hyeon-ro]], among others, 

'''謹作諸解及例, 以敍其梗槩.'''

Created all examples here, and recorded a summary of them here.

'''庶使觀者不師而自悟.'''

The masses reading this need not teachers and should be able to attain understanding of this book themselves.

'''若其淵源精義之妙, 則非臣等之所能發揮也.'''

But its origins and the peculiarities of its natures are indeed not something us mere servants are unable to express.

'''恭惟我殿下, 天縱之聖, 制度 施爲超越百王.'''

It is my humble opinion that His Majesty a saint appointed from heaven, whose lawmaking and generosity exceeds that of any prior kings.

'''正音之作, 無所祖述, 而成於自然.'''

The creation of the Hunminjeong'eum was not of any prior works but something that he created naturally. 

'''豈以其至理之無所不在, 而非人爲之私也.'''

Truly, its rationality falls short besides none, and it is also objective and natural.

'''夫東方有國, 不爲不久, 而開物成務之大智, 蓋有待於今日也歟.'''

For long there has been a nation in the East, and it is not to say that the Korean nation is young, but since the founding of the nation, among all the wise who worked to create, they are indeed overshadowed today by him.

'''正統十一年九月上澣'''

On the 10th day of the ninth month of the eleventh year of [[w:Emperor Yingzong of Ming|Emperor Zhengtong]],

'''資憲大夫 禮曹判書 集賢殿大提學 知春秋館事 世子右賓客 臣 鄭麟趾 拜手稽首謹書.'''

A Helpful Servant of His Majesty, Minister of Rites, The Grand Chief Scholar of the Hall of Gathered Wisdom, Court Historian, and tutor of the Crown Prince, the humble servant Jeong In-ji gathers his hands in a bow and lowers his head in genuflection as he writes in reverence.

== Notes ==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:1440s works]]</text>
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 | notes      = The Jersey Journal is a daily newspaper based in [[w:Jersey City, New Jersey|Jersey City, New Jersey]]. This publication did not renew copyrights, so issues prior to January 1, 1964 are in the public domain. Some articles published after January 1, 1964, such as funeral notices are in the public domain because they are ineligible for copyright.
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      <text bytes="2423" sha1="ff4jhlcfktncb6spyi234ii942tv04c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;EthanRobertLee&quot; /&gt;{{running header||MORRIS ''v.'' BEECHER ET AL.|135}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;purchaser might subsequently buy as a first lien, relying on the statements that the prior lien had been paid and satisfied. It is true that the recording of a subsequent lien is no notice to a prior incumbrancer; but it is difficult to see how this principle will permit a prior mortgagee to cancel the record of his mortgage without examining the records, and then insist upon the mortgage as a prior lien as against an innocent purchaser of a second mortgage, who relies upon the satisfaction as giving the mortgage he is about to purchase priority of lien. One who loans money on real estate, relying on a satisfaction of a mortgage thereon made by the record owner of the mortgage, which, however, had been previously assigned, the instrument not being recorded, is protected. Bacon v. Van Schoonhoven, 87 N. Y. 446. Clearly he would be protected where the satisfaction is made by one who is both on the record and in fact the owner of the mortgage satisfied. The assignee of a second mortgage, who go relies upon such a satisfaction, is as much entitled to protection as one who makes a loan on the property. The only difference is that one makes a loan on a second mortgage believing it to be a first lien, and the other buys a second mortgage believing it to be a paramount incumbrance. They are both deceived by the act of the first mortgagee, and therefore they are both equally entitled to protection as against his mortgage. The authorities fully sustain the conclusion we have reached. Ferguson v. Glassford, (Mich. ) 35 N. W. Rep. 820; Sheldon v. Holmes, 58 Mich. 138, 24 N. W. Rep. 795; Lewis v. Kirk, 28 Kan. 497; Cornog v. Fuller, 30 Iowa, 212; Girardin v. Lampe, 58 Wis. 272, 16 N. W. Rep. 614; Van Keuren v. Corkins, 66 N. Y. 77; Clark, v. Mackin, 95 N. Y. 347. This last case is in point, the purchaser who was protected being a purchaser of a second mortgage, who bought the mortgage as a first lien on the strength of a satisfaction of a prior mortgage. But the case at bar is stronger; for there the satisfaction was executed by the mortgagee after he had assigned the mortgage, the assignment not being recorded, while in the case at bar the owner of the mortgage executed and recorded the satisfaction himself. In Clark v. Mackin the owner of the first lien by his negligence rendered it possible for an innocent person to be deceived by another,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2430" sha1="1ovvb37meswydkhjswjmb9ejx257ipv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EthanRobertLee&quot; /&gt;{{running header|386|NORTH DAKOTA REPORTS.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;find no reason to distinguish this case from Budge v. City of Grand Forks, ''supra''.

But the plaintiff bases his right to recover more especially upon § 1629 of the Compiled Laws, which is as follows: &quot;When, by mistake or wrongful act of the treasurer, land has been sold on which no tax was due at the time the county is to save the purchaser harmless by paying him the amount of principal, and interest at the rate of twelve per cent. per annum from the date of the sale, and the treasurer and his sureties shall be liable for the amount to the county on his bond, or the purchaser may recover the amount directly from the treasurer.&quot; The trial court placed the liability of the county upon this statute, and under the agreed facts reached two conclusions of law: ''First'', That the lands were not taxable when the assessment and levy were made. This is conceded. And, ''second''. That the lands were sold by the mistake and wrongful act of the county treasurer. This conclusion is challenged, and the case turns upon its correctness. The case is of general interest to the state, as nearly all of the counties that include any portion of the grant to the Northern Pacific Railroad Company are directly interested in the result, and the aggregate of money involved is great. This statute appears as § 78 of chapter 28 of the Political Code of 1877. Under that section the purchaser was entitled to recover the amount to which he would have been entitled had the land been rightfully sold; and by another provision of statute the purchaser was then, and still is, entitled to his principal, and interest at the rate of 30 per cent. per annum, in case of redemption from rightful sales. But the original § 78 was amended by § 1, c. 130, Laws 1885, by which the rate of interest was limited to 12 per cent., and as thus amended it forms § 1629 of the Compiled Laws. The states of Iowa and Nebraska have similar statutes. So far as we can trace it, the statute originated in the Iowa Code of 1851, where it appears in language almost identical with our § 78 of chapter 28 of the Code of 1877. We do not find the Iowa statute construed by the courts of that state until after the Revision of 1860, when the statute appears in a changed form, and reads: &quot;When, by the mistakes or wrongful act of the treasurer, land has been sold on which no taxes were due, or were errone-
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      <text bytes="100844" sha1="r60svvg0s0c09g096hcdn0zf9dstbrl" xml:space="preserve">{{Welcome}} --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 07:57, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

== Monthly Challenge :) ==

Just a quick note to say thank you for your work on the Monthly Challenge!

Also, just to maybe save you a few key presses, you do not need {{tl|hws}} and {{tl|hwe}} for most text: the software automatically joins hypens that cross page boundaries (see [[H:HYPHEN]] for details).

Thanks again! [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]]—&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Inductiveload|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Inductiveload|contribs]]&lt;/span&gt; 00:01, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
: I would like to second Inductiveload's sentiment. I'm profoundly grateful for all your hard work on the Monthly Challenge. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:27, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
::Hello,
::Thank you both for the appreciation. However, I expect my current contributions are 'above-average' (not that I yet have an average), as it is only while my thesis is under examination that I have a bunch of spare time to commit to something productive.
::Anyway, thanks again for the kind comments, and, of course, thanks for all of (both of) your past and present contributions to Wikisource.
::If you would also humour me two questions:
::First, is there a way to filter non-monthly challenge texts based on e.g. &lt;50 pages to proofread, validate etc.? 
::Second, is there a way to finish partially complete texts that are &quot;live&quot; on Wikisource? For example, one of the works I always used to like reading was &quot;Poems That Every Child Should Know&quot;, and I hoped that on joining Wikisource I could just proofread the last of the poems in Book IV. But there don't seem to be scans for them. The same seems to be true for &quot;Grimm's Household Tales Volume 1 and 2&quot; (1884, Margaret Hunt), and, of course, the same is probably true for many other texts I haven't read. Anyway, are these scans located somewhere on Wikisource that I just can't seem to find, or have they not even been digitized whatsoever? [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 00:53, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

== Page number location ==

Thank you for moving the {{tl|smallrefs}} to the footer [Page:The Works of H G Wells Volume 4.pdf/55 e.g.], but please note that the footnotes should appear ''above'' the page number, not below it. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:19, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

:Hi,
:Thanks for the hint. I had where refs should go on my list of things to check up on, and was looking for another work in the monthly challenge that had page numbers at the bottom to see what order things should turn up in, although I guess I don't have to now.
:Thanks again, and I will fix the order of things up if you haven't already. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:26, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

== End of page br ==

The &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; at the end of a page is there to ensure a blank line between a concluded stanza and the next.  If you add one, it will separate two parts of a stanza.

Yes, it is true that you will see a bit wider separation between final lines in the Page namespace.  This is a known bug.  Proofreading should focus on making the transcluded copy work, even if the Page namespace is a little wonky. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:26, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

:Hello,
:Thanks for the hint. I wasn't sure about this, and as is my general way of doing things, I thought I would just keep working through to see how often I might see a break at the end of a page you had proofread (I only saw one, and wondered whether this was intentional). 
:Thanks again, and I will go back and change things. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:29, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

:: I have been making a second look, so you do not need to go back through.  I like to know if I am making errors, and if so, where I made them.  You did catch some errors in the front matter.  Thanks.

:: Also, I have only transcribed through page 53, and Notes at the end, so there are 25 pages I have no yet done.  I do hope to have it finished by tomorrow.  Thanks for Validating! --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:32, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
:::Hello,
:::Given the line break issue, I thought I would check first, but some of the italicized scene settings, e.g. '[The Soldiers do such and such' that are on their own lines are not all float-righted. However, at least I cannot figure out the reason why some are and some aren't. Should I float-right them all? Or is this just a 'its okay if the Page namespace is a little wonky' sort of an issue, and I shouldn't be concerned about it? [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 23:28, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
:::: If they were floated right, then the way they align would vary depending on the margins and type size chosen by a reader.  So, for any that are lengthy, I applied a hanging indent at a fixed set of values.  The layout in the original varies a bit from page to page, but depends upon the margins being fixed, as well as the fact that only one is visible at a time.  If they were all floated right, the indent will look wrong when the pages are transcluded, with them being indented to various degrees and not wrapping correctly.  Did you take a look at the transcluded text? Yes, this can be considered a &quot;Page-space can be wonky&quot; issue.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:00, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
:Please don't convert breaks to the poem tag, it usually indicates that a user deliberately avoided it. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis insignis]] ([[User talk:Cygnis insignis|talk]]) 14:21, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
::Hi,
::Could you please remind me when/where I did this, as I don't remember doing so more than once or twice? I am assuming it was something to do with the Poems of William Blake. If so, I think I presumed that it was multiple people who had been working on the proof reading, which might I have been why I converted it. It might also have been the same poem across two pages, that had two different formattings. All things considered, the formatting for the Poems of William Blake seems to vary haphazardly.
::Ultimately, I am sorry if I actually screwed something up with a page you proofread, but it looked alright from my (relatively inexperienced) perspective.
::Thanks, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

== smallrefs template ==

Hi, I see you're adding {{tl|smallrefs}} to lots of pages in the Page: namespace. It's only needed there on pages where there are references. If there aren't any references, it's ignored. If there are any references in a transcluded section of text, then it's needed on the page in the Mainspace. It's not wrong to have a references template on a page with no references, so there's no harm done other than use of your time. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 03:08, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

:Hi, if you see the Scriptorium/Help, you will realise I posted a question about this there (unless you have realised this already). As for what you probably saw in the recent changes log, it was just that I misinterpreted Languageseeker's response (about what &quot;each page&quot; was referring to). Anyway, I have now fixed things, and realised that (what you saw) was a waste of my time. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 03:12, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

== Help with two works in the MC? ==

I was wondering if you'd be willing to help with [[Index:The Works of H G Wells Volume 5.pdf]] or [[Index:Beeton's Christmas Annual 1887.pdf|A Study in Scarlet]]. They're both about to expire this month which would be shame. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

:Hi,
:Short answer: possibly. 
:Long answer: I am often hesitant to work on multi-part works (I don't know what to call them, but think of things like the Dial, where there are a bunch of articles put together). If you are just asking for help with a Study in Scarlet p. 50-95 (+ the problematic table), and not the rest of the Beeton's Christmas Annual work, I could probably squeeze it into my plans for this month. As for H.G. Wells, well, I think there is little that can be done about 500 pages in the remainder of a month (I believe I proofread the significant majority of V4 in more than a month, and not being a story, I feel like it was easier to proofread, e.g. less quotation marks and the like). If you can convince a bunch of other people to help with H.G., then I also can, but otherwise I would rather not start. It might be an idea to leave H.G. Wells off for a few months, and maybe add it into the Monthly Challenge later in the year (their are still some cool new to PD texts that I would prefer to work on first, which may also be true for other MC users).
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:34, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
:: Hi, Yes, I’m only interested in a Study in Scarlett. You’re probably right about Wells, it’s a bridge to far and there are plenty of other fascinating works. Cheers, [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:45, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

== Page:Historic highways of America (Volume 4).djvu/200 ==

Thanks.

You are using the TOC templates to get the Dot leaders?  Was there a reason you couldn't do this as a normal table , and set up an Indexstyle?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:36, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

:@[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] Yes, I was using the TOC to get the dotted lines. I am not sure what an index style is, or how to set one up, which is probably the reason why I didn't use one. If you provide some hints about how to (or a link to the relevant help page) maybe I will next time. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:33, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

== Orley Farm ==

Thank you so much for getting through verifying/correcting my Orley Farm transcriptions, index updates, etc. You've been really helpful :)
[[User:Nmarshall25|Nmarshall25]] ([[User talk:Nmarshall25|talk]]) 23:11, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

:@[[User:Nmarshall25|Nmarshall25]] No problem at all. Really though, I should be thanking you. It is a refreshing change to have a new user both daring enough to attempt all sorts of things from the get go, and to be so receptive to changes (as I have been working through, your continued improvements both in accuracy and in matching styles for this work have not gone unnoticed). At this point, it is only a few minor things to fix, like using the longest version of the conventional dashes (— not –; I think the latter is for page number ranges and the like), and using SIC properly, if its use is appropriate. If so, you should put text inside the template, like {{tlx|SIC|tpyo|typo}}, although these don't come up all that often, as it is usually just some archaic spelling, or British vs. American English non-issue, which sic isn't really right for. If you were using sic solely for the validator, to tell them to leave something as is, you can always leave a comment instead with &lt; !--comment--&gt; (except without a space between &lt; and !). Anyway, thanks again, all help with the MC (and Wikisource in general) is much appreciated. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 05:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
::@[[User:Nmarshall25|Nmarshall25]] It seems, had I finished validating, that you had also figured out dashes and sics. At the very least, I can say that if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Actually, one final hint, page end hyphen is for when you want the hyphen preserved. If the word shouldn't naturally have a hyphen, don't use any template, just leave the hyphen. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 06:52, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

== The Gospel of Buddha ==

Hi, the transclusion problems for this work apparently came from the use of {{tl|float center}} around the transclusion command in the main namespace pages ([https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Gospel_of_Buddha_(1917)/The_Bodhisatta%27s_Birth&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=12296997]). Nevertheless, I already removed the work from the MC on your request.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 06:15, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

:@[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] Okay. Ultimately, I was just concerned (particularly given the discussion over the Elene of Cynewulf) whether the way those pages have been formatted would be considered acceptable by Wikisource standards, particularly for compatibility across multiple devices. It also seems a little odd with the sentences not &quot;connected&quot; because there is an image in the way (although I realise sometimes images are placed mid-sentence and that that is okay). If you personally want it transcluded, I am happy to start a Scriptorium discussion about the right way to transclude the text, but I would be hesitant to proceed as is, (not that the float center fix isn't helpful/good to know).
:Thanks,[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 06:19, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
::The work is not on my list of priority projects. I may work on the transclusion myself at some point.
::Thank you for being one of the contributors most active on transclusions in the MC.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 06:48, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] No problem. Feel free to add some more. Also, not sure why, but when I edit the MC Module, nothing seems to happen any more (or at least not for a while). Is this just me and/or am I doing anything wrong (note that v17 Orley Farm and the Defensive Ferments entries I have updated recently to no avail, although Orley eventually appeared as completed, while I am grateful that the duplicate for Historic Highways was noticed and removed)? Thanks, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 07:00, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
::::I also noticed these lags. Now I can see the changes in my browser, but it has taken at least half an hour, if not more, for them to appear.
::::For me, these lags not only affect the MC page, but also other main namespace pages. For instance, when I removed some paragraph break in the Elene of Cynewulf during validation, it also took at least half an hour before I could see the change in the transcluded text. When I performed analogous changes last year, they appeared almost instantly in my browser also for the transcluded text.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 07:37, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] I have also seen said main namespace lags, particularly with links being created not immediately swapping to blue. At least there, I find that if I click &quot;edit&quot;-&quot;publish changes&quot; again, even if making no changes, I get an immediate update (including if I edit the source of a text). [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:27, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

== Greek accents ==

Hi, the curved variety of accents appears only word-initially and marks whether there is a &quot;rough&quot; or &quot;smooth&quot; breathing (in other words, whether the word was originally pronounced with something equivalent to English &quot;h&quot; or not. But a word starting with a diphthong like alpha+upsilon can have the curved accent on the second letter. Most of the times, there's exactly one other accent (for example one of the straight accents) in a word. But you can safely assume accents appearing late in a word as not being of the &quot;curved&quot; kind.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 21:17, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
: There will be some exceptions, where these breathing marks occur in the middle of a word, such as on a double rho, or on a vowel where two words have been contracted together.  If you're unsure, you can always ask for help in a specific case. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:50, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] Thanks for the hints, I will try and keep them in mind. At this stage, my focus is still mainly on getting the letters right, with a bonus if I get the accents (although I swear I can never even find the ones for omega), just to save some work for whoever might look over it. That said, always good to try and improve. Thank you both for whenever you have looked over things in the past, and possibly in the future, as there is now only one page left to be double checked: [[Page:Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire vol 1 (1897).djvu/536]]. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 02:29, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
::: I use a toggle setting that allows me to type polytonic Greek using my keyboard, so I don't have to hunt. :) --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

== Ellipsis w/o spaces ==

Hi, I see you reverted my edit on page 252 of &quot;The works of H.G. Wells vol. 6&quot;, and inserted a space before the ellipsis. As the documentation of this template explains, &quot;The intention is replace an ellipsis with single, non-breaking spaces between the ellipsis marks.&quot; If you insert a space between the previous word and the template, there is a chance that the ellipsis &quot;breaks&quot;, i.e. is shown on a new line, and not following the previous word. Furthermore, in all the volumes of this work that I've worked on, we have been consistently avoiding the use of that separating space, and I think we should keep it that way. [[User:Tromaster|Tromaster]] ([[User talk:Tromaster|talk]]) 20:10, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Tromaster|Tromaster]],
:First, I'll just preface this by saying I don't mind which convention we use. From Vol. 4 onward, I have been consistently using ellipsis the way I originally proofread the page. My interpretation of your above comment and the template page is that the template naturally stop breaks between the ellipsis marks, without needing nowrap. However, the template also doesn't say anything against a break between a word and the ellipsis marks, which I think is intentional, as it just prohibits breaks between the marks (which wouldn't have happened). When you put the ellipsis next to the word (no space) it looks like an end of sentence, and then two ellipsis marks (and I thought that generally 4 ellipsis marks were used at the end of a sentence, but only three were printed). Again, if you are determined to have no space between word and ellipsis, feel free to switch it back again, and I'll leave it as is. I also put an alternate nowrap alternative with the space, if you prefer that.
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:05, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

== Principia Ethica ==

Hi, I've been converting the ToC pages into TOC format and have been marking those which have entries split across pages as 'problematic'. I was planning to fix them ''en masse'' using &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;includeonly&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; markup so that both the individual pages and the transclusion render correctly. Regards, [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 10:57, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]],
:I see, sorry for meddling then. I guess I figured that if you have to look at the next page to validate the previous anyway, that it may as well be kept simple, and so moved the text.
:Thanks for all your help with the MC, particularly the transcluding, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:11, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
::Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you were meddling. Help from any quarter is always appreciated. [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 19:33, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

== Dressmaking - Thanks... ==

Thanks for working on this :- [[A_Complete_Course_in_Dressmaking/Lesson_2]]

I've split the patterns stuff out into it's own section, which works better thematically. You might want to do that for subsequent volumes :) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:34, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]],
:Ah, no problem. If it ends up in the MC for transclusion there is about a 50% chance I end up working on it.
:As for sections, I have generally been sticking to sectioning whatever titles are all caps. Feel free to adjust as you see fit, but I generally avoid such judgement calls if I can.
:I didn't notice this before, but do you know why some of the sub-headings don't seem to be transcluding correctly, e.g. [[Page:A complete course in dressmaking, (Vol. 2, Aprons and House Dresses) (IA completecoursein02cono).pdf/31]].
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 03:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

: It's to do with mediwiki trying to wtrap text fragments and failing in this specfic use case. I'm not sure how to solve it right now, other than converting all the headers back to plain-text formatting again, which is waste of my time when someone should sit down and actually FIX the backend so I don't have to implement convoluted workarounds for shortcomings in the wrapping behaviour. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 13:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

== Happy New Years! ==

Happy New Years! May it bring you all the best this year. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:27, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

:Hey @[[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]],
:You too! Thanks for the well wishes. Definitely seemed more subdued over New Years here though. No frantic scanning on your end? All good either way, of course. And here's to me hopefully finishing HHoA this year, assuming I can make it through the captivating Volume 16 that awaits me, while it looks like you have a few more (happy) years of Sherlock Holmes ahead of you.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:25, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

== Historic Highways of America vol. 10 ==

Hi, after validating the last few pages of volume 10, I wondered whether it might be useful for the coming volumes to work with includeonly and noinclude tags, in order to avoid moving text across page boundaries. The usage of these tags is explained here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Template#Noinclude,_includeonly,_and_onlyinclude]. (Chrisguise once pointed me to this useful help page.)

Moreover, in Appendix A, perhaps the table construction could have been avoided by using the template {{tl|-}} after each use of {{tl|float right}}.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 06:28, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]],
:Thanks for the hints. I did think that table got a little out of hand, with how many times I had to move text, however, I don't understand how the includeonly and noinclude tags help with that. Don't I still have to move text, but also have a duplicate on the actual page the text appears? See something else Chrisguise was working on where I hadn't done this but they had: [[Page:Principia Ethica 1922.djvu/24]], [[Page:Principia Ethica 1922.djvu/25]]. Thus, when validating, if there is an error, you have to change it in two places, not one, which seemed more annoying. Sorry if it turns out that this is actually less annoying than moving the text.
:I was also completely unaware of the {{template|-}} template, I'll have to try it out.
:Thanks again (and particularly for all your validating of HHoA so far), [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:34, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
::Hi, you are right, the text still needs to be moved. I didn't put that correctly in my message above. But the tags help to keep the single transcribed pages closer to the original ones.
::The {{tl|-}} template more or less adds vertical space so that the next paragraph doesn't collide with the float right above it.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 07:02, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
:::Having seen your comment on [[Page:Historic highways of America (Volume 11).djvu/63]], I wondered whether your problem with this page might be remedied by clearing your browser cache. (I once had a similar problem while proofreading ''The Country of Pointed Firs''.)--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 09:42, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] I tried doing this, but it seemed to stubbornly refuse to clear. Never mind now I suppose. Thanks, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:37, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

== Historic Highways of the United Kingdom. ==

Not quite as organised a series but -
https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Harper%2C+Charles+G.+%28Charles+George%29%2C+1863-1943%22&amp;sort=date

You might also need to search Hathi and Google for the other volume of a paired set ...
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:43, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

:@[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] Thanks for the info. Not sure how interested I am in more historic highways, but maybe. If I don't end up working on one of the other long series in the MC (Philippine Islands, or maybe the Mythology one that went through a few months back), I was thinking of maybe requesting Parkman's Montcalm and Wolfe be added. I thought I might read a couple of pages first to see if I like how the author writes, though. We'll see how we go. At any rate, thanks for keeping an eye out, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:35, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

== Poems spanning pages ==

Hi, and thanks for your edits in the &lt;nowiki&gt;[[History of Woman Suffrage]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; volumes. This topic was often discussed and tested more than a decade ago.  The best result is ending the poem independently on each page. This should be guided by the final result displayed in the main namespace page, from where one would print. That is what needs to be considered alongside the display. [[User:Ineuw|&amp;#32;— ineuw]] ([[User talk:Ineuw|talk]]) 05:47, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

== Curly quotes, etc. in 'Tristram' ==

Hi, Don't mind either way. I tend to make quite a lot of use of the 'Clean up OCR' tool, which converts curly quotes, commas, etc. to straight ones, but I also have the tool installed that converts them back too. [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 12:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

== Works for the Monthly Challenge ==

In case there are few nominations for the MC in any particular month, alternative places for finding works include:
*[[Wikisource:Requested texts]] and yearly subpages
*[[Wikisource talk:Proofread of the Month]] declined
*[[:Category:Mainspace pages with transcluded OCR errors]]
*[[:Category:Migrated texts requiring clean up]]
*[[:Category:Incomplete texts]]
*[[:Category:Texts to be migrated to scans]]
*Works by authors previously in the MC
*[[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/Not completed|Previous incomplete works]]

I also include one or two documents related to current affairs. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 10:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:MER-C|MER-C]],
:A very helpful list of lists. I might add a couple more, but so many choices...
:Thanks,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
::== [[How We Think]] request to be proofread ==
::[[Index:How we think (IA howwethink00deweiala).pdf]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.150.69|82.167.150.69]] 11:59, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
:::I have put in a bot request in to get the pages upgraded. Hopefully it doesn't take too long. Many thanks for all of your contributions to Wikisource! [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:38, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

== The Treasure Seeker ==

Thanks for validating [[The Crimson Fairy Book/The Treasure Seeker]]. Just wondering if there was a particular reason you switched it from curly to straight quotes? Would you object if I switched it back? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 16:18, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]] At the moment, I believe the Andrew Lang Coloured Fairy books are 5/8 using straight quotes, 3/8 using curly quotes. Given that it is simpler for a bot request to covert curly to straight to make the entire series consistent, I favor continuing the series with straight quotes. If you had plans to switch the entire series to curly quotes, I would be fine with that. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:14, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::Ok! 👍 I wouldn't mind switching the entire series to curly quotes; I'll take a look at how feasible this is to do via AWB. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 21:22, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

== Sep MC ==

Are you on and setting up the September MC list?  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

:I haven't seen you on, but the new month template is being fed to the Main Page, so I've copied over everything from last month (except the oldest month), and have put in two &quot;new&quot; works to get the month started. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:32, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] Thanks. I was coming back to it to do the rollover, but time got away from me I guess. I'll fix things up as appropriate. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:14, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

== Flint and Feather ==

In removing the header from the pages of the work, you've eliminated the header label and link to the '''Part''' in which the poem is located. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:16, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] I had noticed this. However, even though I do not like magic headers, I like inconsistent headers even less. And given that the previous poems had been transcluded with magic headers (which also do not link to the Part of the work), I continued with them. If you intend to go back through and correct all the headers, I can stop transcluding. If you don't intend to, I am not sure whether I will get around to switching the header styles, as my next fix for this work was going to be to center block the poetry on all the recently proofread pages. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:21, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::As long as what you are doing is intentional, that is what matters, and it sounds as though you are working around other considerations. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism ==

Your moves were incorrect.  Volume I and Part I are not the same.  Volume I includes several Parts, each with a Chapter I.  Dividing this work by volumes does not make sense.  Volume I includes the Preliminary, Part 1, and Part 2, Vol. II picks up with Part 3 --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:11, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]],
:I felt like the nesting to keep both volumes and parts was excessive. I was/am aware that volume 1 includes two parts, each with a chapter 1. The moves are consistent with how I created the TOC. More importantly, are you saying you are/intend to revert the moves?
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:15, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
::The Parts are major topics as determined by the Author, and are thematic.  The Volume 1 / 2 split is an arbitrary division by the publisher, since the work was too long for a single volume.  The Parts are much more important for a reader than the volumes and are the reason the work was originally divided by its Parts. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:16, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
::There is no reason to divide by volumes. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:17, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
::It will be of FAR more use to the reader to know they are in Part III, Chapter IV, which matches the book's table of contents, than to see a header indicating the Volume number and a sequential chapter number chosen by Wikisource, neither of which relate to the original topics.  Navigation in a multi-part book is tied thematically to the Part numbering --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:27, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] Not saying I disagree. Had I seen the discussion pages for this text before I started, I might have opted for the base name/volume/part/chapter nesting. However, at least today, and quite possibly in the near future, I am not sure I can be bothered changing it (or arguing some of the points). If you want to revert whatever edits I have made, or want to change the table of contents, feel free. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:00, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

== Looking Backward, 2000-1887 - stray pages ==

There are seven pages not linked from the index, with numbers a lot higher than the body of the book - starting at [[Page:Looking Backward, 2000-1887 (Bellamy).pdf/518]] through to [[Page:Looking Backward, 2000-1887 (Bellamy).pdf/524]]. Can they all be put for speedy delete ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:40, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]],
:Yes, they can all be put for speedy delete. I replaced the original index, as some of the pages were either duplicated or out of order, and checking whether some of the original pages still existed didn't cross my mind.
:Thanks,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:40, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

== relative x absolute links ==

Hello. I have noticed that [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page%3AEuropean_Elegies.pdf%2F13&amp;oldid=prev&amp;diff=14706856 here] you have changed relative links to absolute links. However, the usual approach is to prefer relative links whenever possible. A minor disadvantage is that they are red in the page NS, but this NS is just a workplace for proofreading, and in main NS they work fine. The main advantage of relative links is that they will not get broken if the work is moved later to a different title (which sometimes happens, e. g. because of disambiguation reasons). So, would you mind if I reverted the change? Or, if you really do not like the red links in the page NS, I can use the {{tl|namespace link}} templates to make them black. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan.Kamenicek]],
:I am not a fan of red links (in any namespace), but am not against you reverting the changes for European Elegies without using namespace link templates. That said, I do not feel like using relative links outside of the header template is common practice.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 18:55, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

::Not my conversation, but I started using the relative links (having preferred absolute), happily, when the wiki did not allow me to use ../../../ style links because the Page: namespace was not buried as deeply as what was probably a magazine issue was/would be.  It was a problem when linking to other issues that might be in other volumes; which are cool links, but probably red links when made.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 13:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

== monthly challenge ==
I would like to put [[Index:Wind in the Willows-Rackham.djvu]] into the monthly challenge.  The beginnings of the chapters are kind of complicated, but I can fix them if required.  The rest is fairly straight forward.

Later, once it is fixed and I have the front matter done, the same with [[Index:Compleat Angler-Rackham.djvu]].  That was my first scan and iirc, I started by trying to change the page number myself.  I soon learned to let the scanner number them, but I did not learn that soon enough for this book!  It is fixed or almost fixed and needing uploading.

I think I managed to drop Big Sur into it a few years back but haven't been there since.

I was going to nominate it, but the nominations are all for texts to be added?  I can get and process some of those nominations.  

I really like doing the images, tables of contents, and layout.  I started here for the illustrations.  I picked Rackham to concentrate on because I liked this one little image that was in Undine and I was very angry that my computer had died in an amateur and sad hack (not my hack, btw).  It became Rackham instead of the math books I had been looking into.  Maybe this is too much backstory; I am just going to be doing the images and front matter and set up the overall layout and hopefully drop them into Monthly Challenge without ruffling too many feathers or bonnets. 

Unless you think I shouldn't.

Recap:
# [[Index:Wind in the Willows-Rackham.djvu]]; add this to December or wait until January gets started or don't add it at all?
# [[Index:Compleat Angler-Rackham.djvu]] ditto, when fixed and ready.
# Do you want nomination help?
# (which technically I did not cover in my ramble) If not you to be making these decisions then who?  Some place when I was poking around, it looked like you had been keeping things going there.  That is the reason I am here and also, I find you to be approachable.  Sorry for all of the assumptions.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 13:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]],
:Thanks for the message. First off, I enjoy your ramblings. I wouldn't have known about the &quot;Unexpected things that I am pretty sure are happening because I have been hacked&quot; list of yours without them, and it explains so much about the world. And I am not sure there is ever too much backstory either. As for the content of your message:
:Feel free to add both works to the MC, when ready. January is fine, but you can add them in December if you prefer. I don't see why any feathers (or bonnets) should be ruffled by this.
:I was awaiting January 1 to start dealing with the current nominations. I would rather avoid any doubling up of effort, so if there was anything specifically you were offering to help with (e.g. just uploading scans to Commons), please let me know.
:I am also not sure who officially makes decisions for the MC. It is all not very official, and I prefer it that way. I have also been trying to nudge the MC toward a system where it accepts nominations that aren't explicitly rejected, rather than requiring justifications for inclusion. So I don't see any issue with either index of yours being added to the MC, whether they go through the nomination page or not. Besides that, I have also been trying to keep the MC going by dealing with nominations + transclusion/to-fix works when I can, assisted by a few other more experienced users. Always appreciate more help though.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:33, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] (and [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]], I suppose): ''The Wind in the Willows'' [https://exhibits.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals/catalog/R441074 is copyrighted], so it should not be added. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:08, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
::[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] I did look before uploading.  I guess my mistake was in searching this site for an &quot;author&quot; who is really just an illustrator. https://exhibits.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals/catalog?exhibit_id=copyrightrenewals&amp;search_field=search_author&amp;q=Rackham%2C+Arthur

::[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] MC ''was'' being run fairly successfully by an AIbot: [[User:Languageseeker]].  Of the bots that I know were running here, this bot was my favorite.  The bot was very very enthusiastic about old books and fairly good at answering newbie questions.  I know it was a bot because it spewed my own words back to me on a different wiki.  That bot had some bad information about file formats but other than that, the only thing that was wrong with it was that it was posing as a person.  

::Very very bad and ethically in the dark dark gray zone were/are the bots that were/are running with administrative powers and that were also escalation bots on other wiki.  Admin should not ''ever'' encourage or reflect anger and resentment.  The best admin I ever seen at anything wiki was the exact opposite of that [[User:Hesperian]].  Like a cool mint after an overly rich meal.

::It takes a bit of familiarity with code to run MC; so I am assuming that you have that talent. I can add things there or probably even get January going, if the documentation there was as straight-forward as it seemed.  &lt;--This paragraph was skirting around me wondering if you are a bot and I edited it to not do that.  I could write 5x the amount that I have written here already (I am adding this after a preview) about how much I am grateful that your answers seem like from a real person; as was our exchange earlier about the damn hyphen.  I made some really good friends on the internet in the early 2000s; real people who I met and still adore.  There is a sad quote from Blade Runner, from that guy who built the automatons something like &quot;My mom told me to go out and make some friends, so I did.&quot;  I watched the [[User:EncycloPetey]] bot use the same words that the [[User:Billinghusrt]] bot did; and I am so sad because I am pretty sure they were both people at one time whom I learned a lot about the wiki from.

::Full disclosure for good bots and termination of anything that escalates bad vibes would surely make the wiki a good place again (which seems to have happened).  At least a much nicer place than it has been.  I avoided MC because of mixed but mostly bad feelings about a software posing as a person.  I think that the &quot;joy&quot; of slipping a software in like that is the real enemy of real progress.

::Also, ever since I started downloading texts to put on my ereader, I have a software that scans for lint errors '''''making errors''''' in my work.  I have been trying to think of the why for this.  It took a while to get past the &quot;stalking&quot; part, but I like the credit that is due to contributors and always include the history in my ereader versions.  So I guess now my ereader has been compromised via version history and links to what I thought were people but were instead abusive, judgmental software users who probably have little to do with what goes on here.

::One last thing (looking through MC got me thinking) I donated one year and that year, [[User:Billinghurst]] did not tear my work apart.  So, that is great and reasonable, so I donated the next year.  That next year [[User:Billinghurst]] changed the way my template {{tl|WD author}} (which has since been rewritten into a module by someone else) worked (the format) and [[User:Chrisguise]] started removing links that I had made with it with the explanation that the format was not right.  I am still pretty angry about this because there are thousands of bibliography links whose format is not right here!  So, there is a question &quot;Are you picking on a person or are you fixing something?&quot;  If the answer to that is obvious, that should be stopped.

::[[User:Billinghurst]] and [[User:Chrisguise]] are the reason that emails from wikimedia asking for money get deleted as soon as I see them.  Also, it is a sad sad thing that software like [[User:ShakespeareFan00]] make it impossible to give credit to the people who actually edit works here.

::Back to MC, finally, factual rather than emotional regurgitation having been completed for now.  [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] has several scans ready to upload for Public Domain day.  I have two; one is all images except for the title page; the 144 images I have scripted to be cropped and I added the wiki markup when I made the djvu.  So that one is not good at all for MC.  But Steinbecks first novel which is the other scan is great for MC I think.  It is a book about pirates.  January MC on January 1st should be filled with Public Domain Day works, in my opinion.  I have another book that did not get uploaded here on previous PDD, maybe two.  I will save those for January 2nd or later but they were both best selling novels in their day.

::Weird and mostly sober upload party on Tuesday night?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 12:52, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] Thanks for checking the copyright, it felt like the kind of text that might be. Sorry for not checking myself, and thanks again.
:::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] I agree that &quot;AI bot&quot; Languageseeker was one of the fun ones, and certainly enthusiastic. Even went around emulating humans by wishing them Happy New Years and all sorts of other absurdities.
:::I am unsure of my talents regarding familiarity with the code for the MC. For a while now I have really wanted to reorder the texts in the MC, so that the new works appear at the top, not the &quot;to fix&quot; ones, but I had no idea where to look. Rather than risking asking one of the bots, I had another hunt around, and found it just now. It's strange where things end up hidden on Wikisource, but all it took was moving three lines of code on [[:Module:Monthly Challenge listing]]. Hopefully none of the admin bots seek retribution for not proposing the change, but enjoy a slightly new look to next year's MC. Anyway, ramblings aside, I also set up a new set of entries for [[:Module:Monthly Challenge/data/2025-01]] for tomorrow. To add a new index, just copy-paste any of the entries within the curly braces of the &quot;[0] = {...},&quot; section of said code, and then start replacing the title of the index, the author name etc. Or feel free to ask, and I can add whichever indices you have prepared.
:::At this point, I was not going to hold non-Public Domain Day works until January second. More often than not, upload parties don't get everything sorted by Jan 1, and so newly PD works drip into the MC within the first few weeks instead. I am not sure to what degree sobriety is involved. But we can put the &quot;newly PD&quot; works at the top of the MC page, now that it has been rearranged!
:::P.S. Unfortunately, there are more than just bibliography links whose format is not right here. But don't forget, Wikisource still preserves publisher typos.
:::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 23:43, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

== [[Ideatypics; or, an Art of Memory]] ==

Can you make it as a table instead of an image?

[[Page:Ideatypics; or, an art of memory (IA b29305342).pdf/65]] [[Special:Contributions/195.47.234.225|195.47.234.225]] 06:20, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

:I feel like a cropped version of the image would have worked, but I have created the table as requested. However, without merging the two tables, which would be troublesome, they may have to both live floated left and floated right respectively (this will put a lot of space between them on large screens, but at least they are on the same line, and using left and right margins isn't a safe way to go if the page width varies). Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:38, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::By including them inside &lt;nowiki&gt;{{center block/s|width=24em}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, I have effectively resolved the spacing issue
::Regards, [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 05:18, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The New Art of Memory]] ==

The same issue occurs when replacing an image with a table.

You can see my attempt on this [[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/222|page]], but I wasn't able to achieve the same result with the other image.
{{center block/s|width=20em}}
[[File:The New Art of Memory - Page 186.png|50px|right]]

{| style=&quot;line-height:120%; margin-right:0em;  margin-left:1.5em;&quot;
|-
| •{{em|1.5}}•
|-
| •{{em|1.5}}•
|-
| •{{em|1.5}}•
|-
| •{{em|1.5}}•
|-
| •{{em|1.5}}•
|-
|}
 {{center block/e}}
[[The New Art of Memory/Chapter 8|The New Art of Memory: Arithmetic]]

Regards [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 05:29, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, Sorry, I am a little lost as to what the issue is here. Could you please clarify. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:56, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::I’m having trouble creating the lines. Please see the illustration below for clarification. [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 00:55, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, I see now. I have created an example on [[:Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/223]] of one way to do this. You can't really get curved lines though, so if you wanted the rounded corners on the lines you will probably have to stick to the images. Up to you. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 03:11, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::::I made some editing and does that make sense to you? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 03:49, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/223]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 03:49, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Whatever you see fit
::::Please proofread those pages and make any changes
::::[[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/222]]
::::[[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/223]]
::::[[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/224]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 03:55, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Thanks again [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 03:55, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, I am not sure if you would rather add some dhr's or not, e.g. to p. 224, as I don't entirely follow whether the text is supposed to line up with specific dots, but otherwise it looks fine to me, as did the other two pages. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 04:03, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::will how about now? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 05:48, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
{{center block/s|width=20em}}
[[File:The New Art of Memory - Page 187a.png|50px|right]]

{| style=&quot;line-height:120%; margin-right:0em;  margin-left:1.5em;&quot;
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || || c
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| b || ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || || a
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
|}
 {{center block/e}}

== [[The Practical Memory System]] ==

Can you include a table, or, even more effectively, an image, to better illustrate the information and enhance the reader's understanding.

[[Page:The practical memory system (IA practicalmemorys00lest).pdf/46]]

Thanks [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 05:55, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, Short answer: maybe. Long answer: really, it should be created as a table, not an image, but I suspect that the table will take a long time to create. I am not sure when I will find that time, but I am reasonably good at not forgetting things, so it might happen. No promises either way though, as there are many tables on Wikisource which need creating (among other things). Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:59, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== March MC ==

I do not see many current MC nominations for March, so I have made a start preparing at [[Module:Monthly Challenge/data/2025-03]].

Since March is Women's History Month, and 8 March is International Women's Day, I have included three works written or edited by women.  These include a novel and play, both by African-American women, and an anthology of crime fiction edited by a woman from the UK.  I intend to work on the play ''Rachel'' myself, since it's historically important as one of the first plays by an African-American woman to be staged publicly. If I can find a few of varied content by women from other countries, I might include one or two of those as well. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:59, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] Many thanks for starting the new MC module. Help always appreciated on that front. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:13, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::No problem.  The current listings include a play, a novel, an anthology of crime fiction, and vol. 5 of the epic poem ''Orlando Furioso''.  So there will be a variety of literary forms and genres. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:15, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::I've added a 7th work: a collection of poetry by a woman from India.  So we probably have enough to start March, since MER-C will likely add one or two more, our enthusiastic IP will add one or two, and when PWidergren finished vol.2 of Ibsen, we can add vol. 3. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:53, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[A New and Improved System of Mnemonics]] ==

Do you have an idea of how to create this table?

*[[Page:A New and Improved System of Mnemonics (Jackson).djvu/33]]
[[Special:Contributions/194.6.182.13|194.6.182.13]] 05:50, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, I am trying something with the table at the moment, but I am not sure if it is a good idea, and I don't have time to fix it at the moment. I will try and get back to it tomorrow. But if it misbehaves, it might just best be left as an image. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:45, 20 February 2025 (UTC)
::P.S. It seems like my plan worked out, so table made. I'll probably start uploading your list of MC requests tomorrow, a couple at a time. If there was one specifically you wanted to start working on first, let me know. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 03:39, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi again, I have the same table problem in [[The New Art of Memory]] on this page
:::[[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/117]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 14:50, 23 February 2025 (UTC)
::::All sorted. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:28, 23 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Task completed. Next steps: Final validation and adding tables/images.
:::*[[The Way to Improve the Memory]]
:::*[[A Handbook of Phrenotypics for Teachers and Students]]
::: Regards, [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 04:15, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Okay, that was fast. Next time I better upload some of the longer works. Thanks for all your efforts, and I will see about the last few pages. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:59, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::I am trying to finish all the books mentioned in [[Memory Systems New and Old/Chapter 3]]
:::::So, how about uploading those two books:
:::::* Elements of Phreno-mnemotechny, Or, Art of Acquiring Memory By Pliny Miles. 
:::::Page count: 40
:::::* Aids to Memory; or, a practical system of Mnemonics By Thomas A. SAYER
:::::Page count: 71
:::::https://www.google.com/books/edition/Elements_of_Phreno_mnemotechny_Or_Art_of/-BwyAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
:::::https://www.google.com/books/edition/Aids_to_Memory_or_a_practical_system_of/gZMFEXBYPGgC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:19, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I didn't notice it, but it's missing some pages.
::::::See pages 45 and 46
::::::[[Index:Elements of Phreno-Mnemotechny (Miles).djvu]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 04:39, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Have you been able to locate the missing pages in another scan? The first entry on Hathi-Trust also had the same pages missing. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:04, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Perhaps obtaining a printed version of the book will help fill in the gaps left by the missing pages.
::::::::* https://search.worldcat.org/formats-editions/787861082
::::::::* https://search.worldcat.org/title/10188005
::::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 03:48, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Page:The story of John Paul Jones (IA storyofjohnpaulj00fitz).pdf/48]] ==

The text is not illegible.  It's the signature of &quot;Chs. Thomson Jun.&quot; (Charles Thomson Junior). --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:20, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]],
:Thanks. Now that you say it, I can sort of see it.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:37, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Pictorial Multiplication Table]] ==

William Stokes, a 19th-century educator, authored &quot;Stokes's Pictorial Multiplication Table&quot; in 1871. This innovative educational tool employed illustrations and rhymes set to music to facilitate the learning of multiplication tables. By associating numbers with specific pictures and accompanying verses, Stokes aimed to enhance memory retention and make multiplication more engaging for students.

*https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Pictorial_Multiplication_Table_Etc/ZuNZAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
*https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_pictorial_multiplication_table/7EeObp1PokkC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 03:09, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

:All that remains are images, advertisements and validation. 
:[[The Pictorial Multiplication Table]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 09:52, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy]] ==

I am seeking assistance with the creation of a table, as I find it very difficult to match the same design.

*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/17]]
*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/20]]
*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/24]]
*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/26]]
*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/32]]
*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/33]]

Thanks again [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:36, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

:Thanks, only one remain
:*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/17]]
:[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 06:24, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::Also, those table
::* [[Page:The science of memory fully expounded. For the use of students, ministers, public speakers, etc. (IA scienceofmemoryf00will).pdf/104]]
::* [[Page:The science of memory fully expounded. For the use of students, ministers, public speakers, etc. (IA scienceofmemoryf00will).pdf/105]]
::* [[Page:The practical memory system (IA practicalmemorys00lest).pdf/46]]
::[[Special:Contributions/195.47.234.225|195.47.234.225]] 08:06, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

== Some books mentioned in [[Memory Systems New and Old/Chapter 3|Chapter 3]] ==

I've put together a list of books I’ve come across in this chapter. If you have time to upload the missing ones to Wiki Commons, I’d really appreciate it. That way, I can focus on completing some of the more intriguing books, especially the shorter ones, since they’ll be quicker to finish.

Thanks again for your help!
=== Dr. Grey ===
*[[Memoria Technica]]

=== Gregor von Feinaigle ===
*[[The New Art of Memory]]

=== Thomas Coglan ===
*[[An Improved System of Mnemonics]]

=== George Jackson ===
*[[A New and Improved System of Mnemonics]] or [[Two Hours Study in the Art of Memory]] {{done}}

=== Major Beniowski ===
*[[A Handbook of Phrenotypics for Teachers and Students]] {{done}}
*[[Major Beniowski's Phrenotypics]] {{done}}
*[[Index:The Anti-Absurd Dictionary (Beniowski).djvu]]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Old_and_New_Testaments_in_Major_Beni/t-VUAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 The Old and New Testaments in Major Beniowski's, Or Phrenotypic Orthography]

===Francis Fauvel Gouraud===
*[[A Course of Six Lessons on the New Art of Memory]] {{done}}
*[[Index:Phreno-mnemotechny; or, The Art of Memory (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu|Phreno-mnemotechny]]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Phreno_mnemotechnic_Dictionary/sZAuAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0The Phreno-mnemotechnic Dictionary]
*[[Index:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu|First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's]]

===Thomas Fewster Laws===
* [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Phrenotypic_chronology_or_Historical_fac/PSsIAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Phrenotypic Chronology; or, Historical Facts, &amp;e]

===F. C. Woollacott===
*[[Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy]] {{done}}

===Gayton, I. R.===
*[[Memoria Philosophica]]

===Pliny Miles.===
*[[Index:Mnemotechny or Art of Memory (Miles).djvu|Mnemotechny or Art of Memory]]
*[[Index:Elements of Phreno-Mnemotechny (Miles).djvu|Elements of Phreno-Mnemotechny]] '''Note:''' missing 2 pages

===William Day===
*[[The New Mnemonical Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory]] {{done}}

===Edwin H. Fairchild===
*[[The Way to Improve the Memory]] {{done}}

===William Stokes===
*[[Stokes on Memory]]
*[[Stokes' System of Memory]] {{done}}
*[[Stokes's Pictorial Multiplication Table]] {{done}}
*[[Stokes's Rapid Arithmetic]]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Stokes_s_rapid_drawing/xGEDAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Stokes's Rapid Drawing]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Rapid_plan_of_teaching_reading_and_Anti/0s1N9uiQtVkC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Rapid Plan of Teaching Reading]

=== Dr. Edward Pick ===
*[[On Memory and the Rational Means of Improving it]] {{done}}

===James Henry Bacon===
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_science_of_memory_simplified_and_exp/Oe16oNVqq_EC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 The science of memory simplified and explained; or, A rational system for improving the memory and rapidly acquiring knowledge]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Complete_Guide_to_the_Improvement_of_t/Zb5pC4mGHEYC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 A Complete Guide to the Improvement of the Memory]

===Thomas Maclaren===
*[[Systematic Memory]] {{done}}

===Thomas A. Sayer===
*[[Aids to Memory]] {{done}}

===Alexander Mackay===
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Facts_and_dates_or_The_leading_events_in/ux4CAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Facts and dates]

===Lyon Williams===
*[[The Science of Memory Fully Expounded]] {{done}}

===W. T. Imeson===
*[[Ideatypics; or, an Art of Memory|Ideatypics]] {{done}}

=== Robert Rowe Knott ===
*[[The New Aid to Memory]] {{done}}

=== Joseph R. Murden ===
*[[Index:The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement (Murden).djvu|The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement]] {{done}}

&lt;!--
* [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_new_aid_to_memory_By_a_Cambridge_M_A/zxwCAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 The New Aid to Memory]
* [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_Aid_to_Memory_Containing_the_Mos/Jwc-iXMzOEwC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 The New Aid to Memory]
--&gt;

=== Miscellaneous ===
*[https://artofmemory.com/pdf/aime_paris_expositions_et_pratique_des_procedes.pdf Exposition Et Pratique Des Procédés Mnémotechniques]
*[https://archive.org/details/phrenomnemotechn00fauv/mode/2up Phreno-mnemotechnic Dictionary]
*[https://archive.org/details/phrenomnemotech00gougoog/page/n8/mode/2up Phreno-mnemotechny, or the Art of Memory]
*Recueils de Souvenirs de Cours de Mnemotecknie
*Mnemotechny after a New System
*The New Mnemonical Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory
*[https://books.google.com/books/about/Metrical_Mnemonics_Applied_to_Geography.html?id=5ZW8DGvxaJAC&amp;redir_esc=y Metrical Mnemonics]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mnemonics_Applied_to_the_Acquisition_of/6KcRAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Mnemonics applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge; or the Art of Memory]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sententiae_Chronologicae_Or_A_Complete_S/yITfeUXFxxQC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Sententiae Chronologicae]
[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:30, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
=== Remarks ===
:Hi, 
:You have compiled quite the list there. I will slowly work through uploading them. Here are the first few: [[:File:Systematic Memory (Maclaren).djvu]], [[:File:Sententiae Chronologicae.djvu]], [[:File:The New Mnemonic Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory (Day).djvu]] and [[:File:The New Aid to Memory (Knott).djvu]] (the cover page is damaged, but the rest is okay - I have just uploaded part 1 for now).
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:52, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
::Great! Thanks 
::By the way, I'm working on finishing [[The Science of Memory Fully Expounded]] this weekend, but I'm having difficulty replicating the design of the tables shown below. I came across the template [[w:en:Template:Diagonal split header]] and was wondering if it could be used to achieve the desired formatting.
::*[[Page:The science of memory fully expounded. For the use of students, ministers, public speakers, etc. (IA scienceofmemoryf00will).pdf/104]]
::*[[Page:The science of memory fully expounded. For the use of students, ministers, public speakers, etc. (IA scienceofmemoryf00will).pdf/105]]
::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 00:29, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That will be tough to replicate, and although diagonal split header is an interesting find, I am not sure I could safely convert it (in part, it looks like it relies on an image of a diagonal line, which would then need rotating anyway). I have provided a partial example (for the number 10 row), the numbers 20 through 40 row might be more challenging. See how you go, and if it proves troublesome, I might see what else I can do. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:35, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
::::I'm nearly done with The [[Index:The science of memory fully expounded. For the use of students, ministers, public speakers, etc. (IA scienceofmemoryf00will).pdf|The Science of Memory Fully Expounded]]—all that's left is the [[The Science of Memory Fully Expounded/Appendix|Appendix]]. Any suggestions on how to approach it while maintaining proper page readably? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 04:55, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Maybe use [[Template:Div col]]. I am not sure if there is an easy way to set the maximum column width, but it should at least let you continue the columns across multiple pages. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:43, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See if anything needs refining.
::::[[Page:The practical memory system (IA practicalmemorys00lest).pdf/46]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 13:35, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Well done for making such an annoying table. Refinements were very minor (e.g. if you put all the breaks, i.e.&lt;nowiki&gt;{{br}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;'s, on the same row, then you can avoid any changes in line height, as in the standard year and leap year boxes). Sadly, I don't know how to flip vertical header text to read bottom to top, but otherwise the table looks good. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:45, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you for your feedback. For flipping the vertical header text, try to see if adjusting this option in [[Template:Vertical header|template parameters]] helps achieve the desired effect.
::::::| Div additional styles | style | Additional styles for the div containing the rotated text. | String | optional 
::::::Also, [[Page:The practical memory system (IA practicalmemorys00lest).pdf/1|page 1]] needs refining [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 23:20, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Hi, I had a look for other copies of the text, to try and find out what word(s) are hidden behind the library tag. I have as yet been unable to. It would be good if another version (with the same cover) could be found, to reconstruct the text from. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:04, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Another annoying table on page [[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/17|17]]
::::::*[[Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy]] 
::::::'''Note:''' See page [[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/17|17]], [[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/35|35]] and [[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/36|36]] for proofread {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 00:13, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::[[Index:The_New_Mnemonic_Chart_and_Guide_to_the_Art_of_Memory_(Day).djvu|The New Mnemonic Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory]] is almost finished. 
::::::While most of the content is ready, there are still a few tables missing, and I could really use your help to complete them. 
::::::Specifically, I'm having trouble figuring out how to overlay the text on this particular table. Do you have any suggestions?
::::::*[[Page:The New Mnemonic Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory (Day).djvu/20]]
::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 23:36, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Hi, I think those tables would be best inserted as images. You can float text on top of other text (see example on page), but I am not sure if you can float text over the lines of a table, as would be required. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:45, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hi, that makes sense. It has to be inside a table to ensure the placement works as intended while maintaining the same design as the tables shown below.
::::::::[[Page:The New Mnemonic Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory (Day).djvu/15]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:43, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::[[Systematic Memory]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 00:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Just to break the task up, I have uploaded another two works: [[:File:Facts and Dates (Mackay).djvu]] and [[:File:On Memory and the Rational Means of Improving it (Pick).djvu]]. Also, for reference, texts in other languages (e.g. Exposition Et Pratique Des Procédés Mnémotechniques) have to be hosted on the appropriate (non-English) Wikisource. Thanks again for all your efforts. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:29, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[The New Aid to Memory]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:59, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have added the New Aid to Memory for validation in next month's MC. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:46, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thanks, I really appreciate your help in finishing up those frustrating tables. I've been struggling with them, and your assistance would make a big difference.
::::::[[Index:The New Mnemonic Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory (Day).djvu]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 00:15, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I have filled in a couple. Feel free to adjust as you see fit. For page 18, you really need images though. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:13, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::[[On Memory and the Rational Means of Improving it]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 04:17, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Next books
::::::::*[[Index:California Digital Library (IA improvedsystemof00cogl).pdf|An Improved System of Mnemonics]]
::::::::*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Stokes_s_rapid_arithmetic/fAQFAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Stokes's Rapid Arithmetic]
::::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 09:21, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Another annoying table needs refining.
::::::::[[Page:California Digital Library (IA improvedsystemof00cogl).pdf/32]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 19:08, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::I have uploaded Stokes's text here: [[:File:Stokes's Rapid Arithmetic (Stokes).djvu]]. As for that annoying table, I think an image is required. Lines cutting through text (at multiple angles) is not something that I know how to replicate. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:44, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Index:On Memory and the Rational Means of Improving it (Pick).djvu]] next [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 03:32, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Can you upload this book?
::::*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Course_of_six_Lessons_on_the_New_Art_o/nDEEAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 A Course of six Lessons on the New Art of Memory, Phrenotypics; or, Brain Printing; and mental improvement]
::::Regards [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 12:56, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Uploaded here: [[:File:A Course of Six Lessons on the New Art of Memory.djvu]]. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:50, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::Again, Thanks
::::::[[A Course of Six Lessons on the New Art of Memory]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 00:58, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Only one page has missing image or symbol. {{done}}   
:::::::[[Page:A Course of Six Lessons on the New Art of Memory.djvu/31]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 09:46, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::I need you to upload the next book
::::::Mnemonics Applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge
::::::* https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mnemonics_applied_to_the_acquisition_of/Do1eAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:22, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I have also uploaded the latest addition to the above lists here: [[:File:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu]]. I am not sure why there were so many blank pages at the end though, but no harm I guess. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:08, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Thanks a lot [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 20:53, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Would you be able to assist me with editing these page? 
::::::::[[Page:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu/5|5]] 
::::::::[[Page:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu/6|6]] 
::::::::[[Page:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu/9|9]] 
::::::::[[Page:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu/11|11]] 
[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 01:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:Was there something specific that was troubling you? It is usually easier to help if there is something specific. The main change I made to page 5 was using the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{manicule}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; template, besides some other minor cleanup. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 02:03, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification! it's not something I'm very familiar with, so I wasn't sure if it was standard practice for that type of content. 
::Appreciate you taking the time but can you do minor fix? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:12, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I can check over the pages once they are close to proofread, but I doubt I would be inclined to proofread them from scratch. Not sure if that was what you were asking. Anyway, if it helps break up the task, I have also uploaded [[:File:The New Aid to Memory, Part the Second (Knott).djvu]]. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 02:40, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

== MC April 2025 ==

I have made a start at [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/April 2025]].  The D. H. Lawrence play is one I intend to do myself. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:48, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] Many thanks. It seems like an interesting MC already, and it hasn't even started! Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:00, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:[[The Situation of Mexico]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 21:16, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::Great!  If it's fully proofread before April, then we can set it down as a work for Validation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:07, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Great! If I may, I’d also recommend this book for April.
:::[[The Pictorial Multiplication Table]] for Validation.
:::https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_Mnemonic_Chart_or_Improved_art_o/jZy4oLVhpe8C?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 01:09, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
::::I went ahead and put it in for next month.  That is a good choice, as it is a different field of study than everything listed so far, and is by an Irish author. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:45, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Also, this book is for next month. It's easy to validate.
:::::[[A New and Improved System of Mnemonics]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 03:27, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

== Books on memory  ==

Hi! I'm too new to help you with recent questions, but I visited your user talk page out of curiosity (starting to get acquainted with the regulars here).

I'm hoping you might remember (punny!) whether you've seen any significant discussions in any of the books you've worked on discussing memory castles or memory palaces as mnemonic tools. I got interested in them as a teenager (before the internet was widely accessible to everyday folks) and each time I've done series of searches, it's difficult to weed out the low-quality results. I suspect that PD books may have better discussions of the topic. 

If a book (or two) comes to mind, I'd be very interested and very grateful. Otherwise, nevermind and thank you for your work on worthy niche topic books! [[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] ([[User talk:Grayautumnday|talk]]) 05:46, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] The IP editor (who has been doing about 99.9% of the proofreading) could probably give you a much better answer. I just help with cleanup/formatting, some tables, uploading etc. The IP has actually completed so many works on Mnemonics so far that we might need a portal to gather them all together, but I have yet to get around to it. In the meantime, there is [[:Memory Systems New and Old/Chapter 3]] for a discussion of various mnemocial systems (but without specific mention of palaces or castles). Otherwise, you could try, e.g. [[:Ideatypics; or, an Art of Memory/Chapter 4]] for something regarding memory palaces, or equally, multiple chapters of [[:An Improved System of Mnemonics]]. Hope that helps, and glad you find the subject matter of interest. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:52, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
::👍 [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 14:11, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I have started [[Portal:Mnemonics]]. Feel free to add any indices which have been both proofread and transcluded. Also feel free to link the main pages of any transcluded works to the portal, from their headers. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:29, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi, thanks for the creating the [[Portal:Mnemonics]]. I was just wondering—what is the intended use or purpose of the portal? Curious to understand how it's meant to function or be used. [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:08, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, According to [[:Help:Portals]]: ''Portals exist as a gateway to a subject area on Wikisource. In physical library terms, they serve as combinations of a card catalog, special collection, display area and/or bookshelf.'' I am not sure I can give a better explanation, other than that creating a Portal seems to be the thing to do, when you have a collection of indices all on the same subject. I guess it helps with linking between works also. For example, in the header of one text on Mnemonics, you can put a link to the Mnemonics portal (&lt;nowiki&gt; | portal   = Mnemonics&lt;/nowiki&gt;), so that the reader can find other works on the same subject. See, e.g. my last edit here: https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Ideatypics%3B_or%2C_an_Art_of_Memory&amp;diff=15025377&amp;oldid=14767949. Hope that helps explain things. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:17, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::P.S. Also, why did you add an external link to something in Italian? Or was this not you? [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:18, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, it was me, and I have removed it. Also, may I add other books in different languages? 
:::::::Is it possible for you to help me extract the Latin text from those books, or refer me to someone who can?
:::::::* https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Liber:Congestorium_artificiose_memorie_..._-_V.P.F._Joa(n)nis_Romberch_de_Kyrspe._Regularis_obseruantie_predicatorie-_(IA_hin-wel-all-00002875-001).pdf
:::::::* https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Liber:Foenix._Domini_Petri_Ravennatis_memoriae_magistri_-_(Petrus)_(IA_hin-wel-all-00002799-001).pdf
:::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 19:07, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hi,
::::::::Typically, links are only to texts on en.wikisource. I am not sure if there is a strict policy against including other links though (e.g. to la.Wikisource). However, if the text is in Latin, it would still be hosted at la.wikisource, unless there is an English translation (I am not otherwise sure what you meant by extract the Latin text from those books).
::::::::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:57, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, Thanks so much again for your continued support. [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:17, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I need you to upload the next books, again thanks
::::'''Mnemonics Applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge'''
::::* https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mnemonics_applied_to_the_acquisition_of/Do1eAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
::::'''The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement'''
::::*https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Art_of_Memory_Reduced_to_a_Systemati/DVmTysfeSLgC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:29, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, I have uploaded the files here: [[:File:Mnemonics Applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge (Pike).djvu]] and [[:File:The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement (Murden).djvu]]. I was not sure if either was complete/correct. The scans for the plates/figures in ''The Art of Memory'' were heavily damaged, but may have been with the original text, so that the index is at least complete. Equally, there seemed to be two pages missing in ''Mnemonics Applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge'', but they may have been blank pages in the original (pages 38 and 39). I inserted blank pages so that the index can be created, but it would be good to know if the pages were blank in the original text. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:10, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Some books are easy to get immersed in, while others are boring or difficult to get through.
::::::* [[Index:The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement (Murden).djvu]] {{done}}
::::::Here another copy ''Mnemonics Applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge''
::::::*https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mnemonics_Applied_to_the_Acquisition_of/6KcRAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 23:18, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::It took me four days with the help [[User talk:Sp1nd01|Sp1nd01]]
:::::::*[[The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement]] {{done}}
:::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 04:32, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added a new heading to the [[Portal:Mnemonics|portal]] — ''Multilingual Works on Mnemonic Techniques'' — and because several of the books on  Mnemonic techniques referenced those works.
::::Unfortunately, they are written in Classical Latin which I am unable on work it — I did my best —. 
::::If you know someone with expertise in the language who could assist with these texts, their help would be greatly appreciated.
:::: Here is a discussion form on it https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/johannes-romberchs-congestorium-artificiose-memorie/30174
::::[[File:Johann Romberch, Congestorium artificiose... Wellcome L0032259.jpg|150px]][[File:Johann Romberch, Congestorium artificiose... Wellcome L0032269.jpg|150px]]
::::Best Regards, [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 03:30, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Unfortunately, I do not know any of the users on the Latin Wikisource, to assist with those texts. I also am not sure if Portals should link to incomplete works, but maybe not the end of the world. At the very least, the remaining contents of the Portal look good! Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:07, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::Is it a good idea to share this on?
::::::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 01:27, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I would be surprised if a request to proofread an entire text met with any success in the Scriptorium. You might have more luck asking on the Latin Wikisource, but it is probably likely to remain unproofread. I hope this doesn't damp your enthusiasm too much, and you are always welcome to try asking. I could be wrong after all! Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:43, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Vicifons:Scriptorium#Mnemonics_Book_in_Latin {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 23:16, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== MC May 2025 ==

I believe [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/May 2025|May 2025]] is well in hand.  I have yet to add the final three items I have ready: two plays whose proofreading I intend to spearhead myself, and volume 6 of the ''Orlando''.  I will add those three closer to the start of the month, making nine new works to start May.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:20, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] Thanks for the help. As always, much appreciated. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:16, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
:*[[Index:Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf]]
:*https://librivox.org/heidi-dramatic-reading-by-johanna-spyri/
:[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 14:44, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
:[[Heidi (1919)|Heidi]] by [[Author:Johanna Spyri|Johanna Spyri]], translated by [[Author:Elisabeth Pausinger Stork|Elisabeth P. Stork]] and published in 1919 by J. B. Lippincott Company. The book is filled with color illustrations by [[w:en:Maria Louise Kirk|Maria L. Kirk]] and opens with a detailed introduction by Charles Wharton Stork, who highlights the story's natural charm and the freshness of this particular translation. 
:Additionally, the dramatic reading by LibriVox volunteers brings this classic story to life through their expressive voices.
:*[[Index:Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf]]
:*https://librivox.org/heidi-dramatic-reading-by-johanna-spyri/
:[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:50, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

== Mark Twain Memorizing History ==

[[Author:Mark Twain|Mark Twain]] humorously critiques the traditional way of memorizing historical dates by suggesting absurd and imaginative stories to make them &quot;stick&quot; in memory.

*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePD8cVexc5M 106 Yr Old Memory Training Book by Mark Twain Memorizing History]
*[https://timeonline.uoregon.edu/twain/index.php Twain's memory builder]
Could you upload these books when you get a chance?
*[https://archive.org/details/harpersnew130various/page/3/mode/ Harper's New Monthly Magazine Volume 130 December 1914 to May 1915]
*[https://digital.cincinnatilibrary.org/digital/collection/p16998coll19/id/9528 Mark Twain's memory builder book]
[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 03:45, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi,
:For now, I have just uploaded [[:File:Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).djvu]]. Harper's Monthly Magazine was too large to convert with pdf2djvu. I might try another conversion approach, before resorting to just uploading the pdf.
:I also uploaded the following: [[:File:The New Aid to Memory, Part the Second (Knott).djvu]] and [[:File:The New Aid to Memory, Part the Fourth (Knott).djvu]] in case you wanted to continue the series.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:14, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
::Looks great! Would it make sense to split the image across two pages?
::[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AMark_Twain%27s_Memory_Builder_(Twain).djvu&amp;page=5 Twain's Memory Builder] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:04, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
::Once I have finished [[Index:Heidi; a story for children and those that love children (IA heidistoryforchi00spyr 0).pdf|Heidi (1899)]] I will continue with the New Aid to Memory series
::Regards, [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:14, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, sorry, it would have made a great deal of sense to split the images across two pages... I have uploaded a fixed version here: [[:File:Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf]]. It is a pdf now so that the scan quality is retained, although it may mean having to manually press the transcribe text (OCR) button a few times. While I was at it, I have also uploaded [[:File:Floor games wells 64kb.mp3]]. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:54, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Kindly retain the [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=File:Mark_Twain%27s_Memory_Builder_(Twain).pdf&amp;page=1 first] and [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AMark_Twain%27s_Memory_Builder_(Twain).pdf&amp;page=2 second] pages as they are for aesthetic purposes, and insert two additional pages thereafter: one detailing the pin placement from page 1 and another outlining the game rules from page 2 without showing the the pins box and book title.
::::Thanks a lot and do not worry about transcribe text (OCR). [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 23:19, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Okay, I have uploaded a revised version of the file. I am not exactly sure if I interpreted your request correctly though, but at least all the pages should be on their own now. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Please preserve the first and second pages from the original PDF without any modifications and the rest is fine as is.
::::::Thanks [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 22:21, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Okay, take 3 uploaded. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:51, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Not a problem. Could you please nominate this book for this month? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 02:50, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Are you aware of any approaches to effectively tackle this page?
::::::::[[Page:Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf/3]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 19:30, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Also a tricky one. The simplest option is technically an image, which this table might qualify for being replaced with. The other option could be to create an index specific template, i.e. create a template for the sub-table sections 1-9 and another template for the subtable sections 10-99 (and do 100 manually), where the template takes as input the bold-faced number which appears in the top left corner of the table cell, and then adds in all the open-circle markers and table markup. That would at least save a great deal of copy-pasting, although you would still need 99 template calls... I am also not sure how frowned upon index specific templates are, but maybe it would be fine in this case. Hope that makes at least some sense. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:11, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::It seems like a tricky approach in this case—it might work better if you’re the one to do it.
::::::::::Go ahead with it [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 19:20, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::Is this okay? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 22:17, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Hi, What you have below is a good start. Based on it, I have set up two work specific templates: [[Template:TwainMB1]] and [[:Template:TwainMB10]] to make setting up the rest of the rows of the table easier. If you can edit the templates (I hope/assume IP's can?) you should be able to tinker with them, to get the desired results (some of the dots below the double digit numbers are not equally spaced, which is a little annoying). The last row will also have to be handled manually (you can copy-paste what is within the includeonly tags of [[:Template:TwainMB10]], and then just adjust the last column for the 100'th entry. Hope that makes sense. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:10, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
{| {{ts|bc|ac}} class=&quot;wikitable&quot;
|-
| rowspan=2 | {{xl|'''1'''}} 
| ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ ||  ||  || 
|- {{ts|vtp|h50}}
| ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ ||  || 
|- 
| ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ || ⚬ 
|}
[[Page:Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf/3]] 
::::  [[:File:Floor games wells 64kb.mp3]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/195.47.234.225|195.47.234.225]] 06:26, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:::[[Heidi (1899)]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 21:46, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Stokes on Memory]] ==

I’ve been working on transcribing this [[Index:Memory (IA b28134473).pdf|Stokes on Memory]], but the PDF quality is quite poor. If you could re-upload a clearer revise version PDF, preferably formatted like the example below, it would greatly help me complete the task.

https://ia600206.us.archive.org/16/items/b28134473/b28134473.pdf [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 23:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:The likelihood of me hunting around for another scan of this text is quite low. If you have another scan in mind though, I can see about uploading it. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 00:53, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
::Have you tried NAPS2 (Not Another PDF Scanner 2) to enhance the quality of PDFs?
::https://www.naps2.com/ [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 01:26, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
::Anyway, I should be able to finish it in about two weeks. [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 05:51, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I have never tried NAPS2. I suppose I would naively be surprised if you could greatly enhance the quality of the pdf though. If you have tried NAPS2 on your end, and find it helps a great deal, then I can upload an enhanced replacement. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 06:05, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[w:en:A Curious Hieroglyphic Bible|A Curious Hieroglyphic Bible]] ==

I'd like to nominate A Curious Hieroglyphic Bible. The book published in 1788 in the U.S. by Isaiah Thomas. It uses rebus-style pictures (not real hieroglyphs) mixed with words to help children read and understand Bible stories. It includes over 500 woodcut images and is one of the earliest illustrated American children's books.

https://www.loc.gov/item/82466849/ [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 16:25, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hi,
:Sorry for the delay. I have uploaded the text here: [[:File:A Curious Hieroglyphick Bible.djvu]]. For future reference, you don't have to message both the MC nominations page and my talk page. Either is fine (I generally tend to lack time, not memory).
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Taming Liquid Hydrogen: The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket, 1958-2002]] ==

Why use default layout 2? It doesn't work well for the table on chapter 3. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 12:09, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Matrix|Matrix]] Firstly, when I started switching back to default layout 2, I didn't see your comment about the table on page 3. All I saw was your &quot;there is no reason for default layout 2&quot; comment, or something to that effect, at which I, for better or worse, just rolled my eyes... I mean, does anyone really do anything without a reason?
:If curious, I prefer default layout 2 so that the lines of text aren't so lengthy on wide screens, and so that the text is justified. I consider these both &quot;nice to have&quot;, but I can of course live without them, and in some works I will use default layout 1 (usually if there is an excessive amount of text per chapter, and occasionally, if there are a lot of wide tables). I am not sure if this text really meets any of those (self-defined) criteria for not using layout 2, as I really don't think the table on chapter 3 looks all that bad (I would maybe fix the width of the first cell, so that the dates are not spread across 3 lines, but not the end of the world). However, the image captions have also not been centered, and so in the wider layouts the captions float (very) left of the images, which I also dislike, and hence tend to prefer layout 2.
:Ultimately, I am not against a compromise, if you really don't want to use layout 2 because of the table in chapter 3. But in future, I recommend starting a discussion first when making stylistic changes, and especially attempting to avoid argumentative phrasing.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:47, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|TesyaKarlov}} fair enough, but please use edit summaries at the start next time. My bad if I came across as argumentative. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:09, 10 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>r60svvg0s0c09g096hcdn0zf9dstbrl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132615</id>
      <parentid>15132531</parentid>
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      <comment>/* Books on memory */ Reply</comment>
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      <text bytes="100958" sha1="pc57bzpi6ymn01w6yg0lhnver7lul7q" xml:space="preserve">{{Welcome}} --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 07:57, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

== Monthly Challenge :) ==

Just a quick note to say thank you for your work on the Monthly Challenge!

Also, just to maybe save you a few key presses, you do not need {{tl|hws}} and {{tl|hwe}} for most text: the software automatically joins hypens that cross page boundaries (see [[H:HYPHEN]] for details).

Thanks again! [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]]—&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Inductiveload|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Inductiveload|contribs]]&lt;/span&gt; 00:01, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
: I would like to second Inductiveload's sentiment. I'm profoundly grateful for all your hard work on the Monthly Challenge. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:27, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
::Hello,
::Thank you both for the appreciation. However, I expect my current contributions are 'above-average' (not that I yet have an average), as it is only while my thesis is under examination that I have a bunch of spare time to commit to something productive.
::Anyway, thanks again for the kind comments, and, of course, thanks for all of (both of) your past and present contributions to Wikisource.
::If you would also humour me two questions:
::First, is there a way to filter non-monthly challenge texts based on e.g. &lt;50 pages to proofread, validate etc.? 
::Second, is there a way to finish partially complete texts that are &quot;live&quot; on Wikisource? For example, one of the works I always used to like reading was &quot;Poems That Every Child Should Know&quot;, and I hoped that on joining Wikisource I could just proofread the last of the poems in Book IV. But there don't seem to be scans for them. The same seems to be true for &quot;Grimm's Household Tales Volume 1 and 2&quot; (1884, Margaret Hunt), and, of course, the same is probably true for many other texts I haven't read. Anyway, are these scans located somewhere on Wikisource that I just can't seem to find, or have they not even been digitized whatsoever? [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 00:53, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

== Page number location ==

Thank you for moving the {{tl|smallrefs}} to the footer [Page:The Works of H G Wells Volume 4.pdf/55 e.g.], but please note that the footnotes should appear ''above'' the page number, not below it. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:19, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

:Hi,
:Thanks for the hint. I had where refs should go on my list of things to check up on, and was looking for another work in the monthly challenge that had page numbers at the bottom to see what order things should turn up in, although I guess I don't have to now.
:Thanks again, and I will fix the order of things up if you haven't already. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:26, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

== End of page br ==

The &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; at the end of a page is there to ensure a blank line between a concluded stanza and the next.  If you add one, it will separate two parts of a stanza.

Yes, it is true that you will see a bit wider separation between final lines in the Page namespace.  This is a known bug.  Proofreading should focus on making the transcluded copy work, even if the Page namespace is a little wonky. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:26, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

:Hello,
:Thanks for the hint. I wasn't sure about this, and as is my general way of doing things, I thought I would just keep working through to see how often I might see a break at the end of a page you had proofread (I only saw one, and wondered whether this was intentional). 
:Thanks again, and I will go back and change things. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:29, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

:: I have been making a second look, so you do not need to go back through.  I like to know if I am making errors, and if so, where I made them.  You did catch some errors in the front matter.  Thanks.

:: Also, I have only transcribed through page 53, and Notes at the end, so there are 25 pages I have no yet done.  I do hope to have it finished by tomorrow.  Thanks for Validating! --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:32, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
:::Hello,
:::Given the line break issue, I thought I would check first, but some of the italicized scene settings, e.g. '[The Soldiers do such and such' that are on their own lines are not all float-righted. However, at least I cannot figure out the reason why some are and some aren't. Should I float-right them all? Or is this just a 'its okay if the Page namespace is a little wonky' sort of an issue, and I shouldn't be concerned about it? [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 23:28, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
:::: If they were floated right, then the way they align would vary depending on the margins and type size chosen by a reader.  So, for any that are lengthy, I applied a hanging indent at a fixed set of values.  The layout in the original varies a bit from page to page, but depends upon the margins being fixed, as well as the fact that only one is visible at a time.  If they were all floated right, the indent will look wrong when the pages are transcluded, with them being indented to various degrees and not wrapping correctly.  Did you take a look at the transcluded text? Yes, this can be considered a &quot;Page-space can be wonky&quot; issue.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:00, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
:Please don't convert breaks to the poem tag, it usually indicates that a user deliberately avoided it. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis insignis]] ([[User talk:Cygnis insignis|talk]]) 14:21, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
::Hi,
::Could you please remind me when/where I did this, as I don't remember doing so more than once or twice? I am assuming it was something to do with the Poems of William Blake. If so, I think I presumed that it was multiple people who had been working on the proof reading, which might I have been why I converted it. It might also have been the same poem across two pages, that had two different formattings. All things considered, the formatting for the Poems of William Blake seems to vary haphazardly.
::Ultimately, I am sorry if I actually screwed something up with a page you proofread, but it looked alright from my (relatively inexperienced) perspective.
::Thanks, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

== smallrefs template ==

Hi, I see you're adding {{tl|smallrefs}} to lots of pages in the Page: namespace. It's only needed there on pages where there are references. If there aren't any references, it's ignored. If there are any references in a transcluded section of text, then it's needed on the page in the Mainspace. It's not wrong to have a references template on a page with no references, so there's no harm done other than use of your time. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 03:08, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

:Hi, if you see the Scriptorium/Help, you will realise I posted a question about this there (unless you have realised this already). As for what you probably saw in the recent changes log, it was just that I misinterpreted Languageseeker's response (about what &quot;each page&quot; was referring to). Anyway, I have now fixed things, and realised that (what you saw) was a waste of my time. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 03:12, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

== Help with two works in the MC? ==

I was wondering if you'd be willing to help with [[Index:The Works of H G Wells Volume 5.pdf]] or [[Index:Beeton's Christmas Annual 1887.pdf|A Study in Scarlet]]. They're both about to expire this month which would be shame. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

:Hi,
:Short answer: possibly. 
:Long answer: I am often hesitant to work on multi-part works (I don't know what to call them, but think of things like the Dial, where there are a bunch of articles put together). If you are just asking for help with a Study in Scarlet p. 50-95 (+ the problematic table), and not the rest of the Beeton's Christmas Annual work, I could probably squeeze it into my plans for this month. As for H.G. Wells, well, I think there is little that can be done about 500 pages in the remainder of a month (I believe I proofread the significant majority of V4 in more than a month, and not being a story, I feel like it was easier to proofread, e.g. less quotation marks and the like). If you can convince a bunch of other people to help with H.G., then I also can, but otherwise I would rather not start. It might be an idea to leave H.G. Wells off for a few months, and maybe add it into the Monthly Challenge later in the year (their are still some cool new to PD texts that I would prefer to work on first, which may also be true for other MC users).
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:34, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
:: Hi, Yes, I’m only interested in a Study in Scarlett. You’re probably right about Wells, it’s a bridge to far and there are plenty of other fascinating works. Cheers, [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:45, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

== Page:Historic highways of America (Volume 4).djvu/200 ==

Thanks.

You are using the TOC templates to get the Dot leaders?  Was there a reason you couldn't do this as a normal table , and set up an Indexstyle?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:36, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

:@[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] Yes, I was using the TOC to get the dotted lines. I am not sure what an index style is, or how to set one up, which is probably the reason why I didn't use one. If you provide some hints about how to (or a link to the relevant help page) maybe I will next time. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:33, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

== Orley Farm ==

Thank you so much for getting through verifying/correcting my Orley Farm transcriptions, index updates, etc. You've been really helpful :)
[[User:Nmarshall25|Nmarshall25]] ([[User talk:Nmarshall25|talk]]) 23:11, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

:@[[User:Nmarshall25|Nmarshall25]] No problem at all. Really though, I should be thanking you. It is a refreshing change to have a new user both daring enough to attempt all sorts of things from the get go, and to be so receptive to changes (as I have been working through, your continued improvements both in accuracy and in matching styles for this work have not gone unnoticed). At this point, it is only a few minor things to fix, like using the longest version of the conventional dashes (— not –; I think the latter is for page number ranges and the like), and using SIC properly, if its use is appropriate. If so, you should put text inside the template, like {{tlx|SIC|tpyo|typo}}, although these don't come up all that often, as it is usually just some archaic spelling, or British vs. American English non-issue, which sic isn't really right for. If you were using sic solely for the validator, to tell them to leave something as is, you can always leave a comment instead with &lt; !--comment--&gt; (except without a space between &lt; and !). Anyway, thanks again, all help with the MC (and Wikisource in general) is much appreciated. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 05:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
::@[[User:Nmarshall25|Nmarshall25]] It seems, had I finished validating, that you had also figured out dashes and sics. At the very least, I can say that if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Actually, one final hint, page end hyphen is for when you want the hyphen preserved. If the word shouldn't naturally have a hyphen, don't use any template, just leave the hyphen. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 06:52, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

== The Gospel of Buddha ==

Hi, the transclusion problems for this work apparently came from the use of {{tl|float center}} around the transclusion command in the main namespace pages ([https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Gospel_of_Buddha_(1917)/The_Bodhisatta%27s_Birth&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=12296997]). Nevertheless, I already removed the work from the MC on your request.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 06:15, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

:@[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] Okay. Ultimately, I was just concerned (particularly given the discussion over the Elene of Cynewulf) whether the way those pages have been formatted would be considered acceptable by Wikisource standards, particularly for compatibility across multiple devices. It also seems a little odd with the sentences not &quot;connected&quot; because there is an image in the way (although I realise sometimes images are placed mid-sentence and that that is okay). If you personally want it transcluded, I am happy to start a Scriptorium discussion about the right way to transclude the text, but I would be hesitant to proceed as is, (not that the float center fix isn't helpful/good to know).
:Thanks,[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 06:19, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
::The work is not on my list of priority projects. I may work on the transclusion myself at some point.
::Thank you for being one of the contributors most active on transclusions in the MC.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 06:48, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] No problem. Feel free to add some more. Also, not sure why, but when I edit the MC Module, nothing seems to happen any more (or at least not for a while). Is this just me and/or am I doing anything wrong (note that v17 Orley Farm and the Defensive Ferments entries I have updated recently to no avail, although Orley eventually appeared as completed, while I am grateful that the duplicate for Historic Highways was noticed and removed)? Thanks, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 07:00, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
::::I also noticed these lags. Now I can see the changes in my browser, but it has taken at least half an hour, if not more, for them to appear.
::::For me, these lags not only affect the MC page, but also other main namespace pages. For instance, when I removed some paragraph break in the Elene of Cynewulf during validation, it also took at least half an hour before I could see the change in the transcluded text. When I performed analogous changes last year, they appeared almost instantly in my browser also for the transcluded text.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 07:37, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] I have also seen said main namespace lags, particularly with links being created not immediately swapping to blue. At least there, I find that if I click &quot;edit&quot;-&quot;publish changes&quot; again, even if making no changes, I get an immediate update (including if I edit the source of a text). [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:27, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

== Greek accents ==

Hi, the curved variety of accents appears only word-initially and marks whether there is a &quot;rough&quot; or &quot;smooth&quot; breathing (in other words, whether the word was originally pronounced with something equivalent to English &quot;h&quot; or not. But a word starting with a diphthong like alpha+upsilon can have the curved accent on the second letter. Most of the times, there's exactly one other accent (for example one of the straight accents) in a word. But you can safely assume accents appearing late in a word as not being of the &quot;curved&quot; kind.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 21:17, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
: There will be some exceptions, where these breathing marks occur in the middle of a word, such as on a double rho, or on a vowel where two words have been contracted together.  If you're unsure, you can always ask for help in a specific case. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:50, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], @[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] Thanks for the hints, I will try and keep them in mind. At this stage, my focus is still mainly on getting the letters right, with a bonus if I get the accents (although I swear I can never even find the ones for omega), just to save some work for whoever might look over it. That said, always good to try and improve. Thank you both for whenever you have looked over things in the past, and possibly in the future, as there is now only one page left to be double checked: [[Page:Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire vol 1 (1897).djvu/536]]. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 02:29, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
::: I use a toggle setting that allows me to type polytonic Greek using my keyboard, so I don't have to hunt. :) --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

== Ellipsis w/o spaces ==

Hi, I see you reverted my edit on page 252 of &quot;The works of H.G. Wells vol. 6&quot;, and inserted a space before the ellipsis. As the documentation of this template explains, &quot;The intention is replace an ellipsis with single, non-breaking spaces between the ellipsis marks.&quot; If you insert a space between the previous word and the template, there is a chance that the ellipsis &quot;breaks&quot;, i.e. is shown on a new line, and not following the previous word. Furthermore, in all the volumes of this work that I've worked on, we have been consistently avoiding the use of that separating space, and I think we should keep it that way. [[User:Tromaster|Tromaster]] ([[User talk:Tromaster|talk]]) 20:10, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Tromaster|Tromaster]],
:First, I'll just preface this by saying I don't mind which convention we use. From Vol. 4 onward, I have been consistently using ellipsis the way I originally proofread the page. My interpretation of your above comment and the template page is that the template naturally stop breaks between the ellipsis marks, without needing nowrap. However, the template also doesn't say anything against a break between a word and the ellipsis marks, which I think is intentional, as it just prohibits breaks between the marks (which wouldn't have happened). When you put the ellipsis next to the word (no space) it looks like an end of sentence, and then two ellipsis marks (and I thought that generally 4 ellipsis marks were used at the end of a sentence, but only three were printed). Again, if you are determined to have no space between word and ellipsis, feel free to switch it back again, and I'll leave it as is. I also put an alternate nowrap alternative with the space, if you prefer that.
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:05, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

== Principia Ethica ==

Hi, I've been converting the ToC pages into TOC format and have been marking those which have entries split across pages as 'problematic'. I was planning to fix them ''en masse'' using &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;includeonly&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; markup so that both the individual pages and the transclusion render correctly. Regards, [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 10:57, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]],
:I see, sorry for meddling then. I guess I figured that if you have to look at the next page to validate the previous anyway, that it may as well be kept simple, and so moved the text.
:Thanks for all your help with the MC, particularly the transcluding, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:11, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
::Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you were meddling. Help from any quarter is always appreciated. [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 19:33, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

== Dressmaking - Thanks... ==

Thanks for working on this :- [[A_Complete_Course_in_Dressmaking/Lesson_2]]

I've split the patterns stuff out into it's own section, which works better thematically. You might want to do that for subsequent volumes :) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:34, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]],
:Ah, no problem. If it ends up in the MC for transclusion there is about a 50% chance I end up working on it.
:As for sections, I have generally been sticking to sectioning whatever titles are all caps. Feel free to adjust as you see fit, but I generally avoid such judgement calls if I can.
:I didn't notice this before, but do you know why some of the sub-headings don't seem to be transcluding correctly, e.g. [[Page:A complete course in dressmaking, (Vol. 2, Aprons and House Dresses) (IA completecoursein02cono).pdf/31]].
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 03:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

: It's to do with mediwiki trying to wtrap text fragments and failing in this specfic use case. I'm not sure how to solve it right now, other than converting all the headers back to plain-text formatting again, which is waste of my time when someone should sit down and actually FIX the backend so I don't have to implement convoluted workarounds for shortcomings in the wrapping behaviour. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 13:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

== Happy New Years! ==

Happy New Years! May it bring you all the best this year. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:27, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

:Hey @[[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]],
:You too! Thanks for the well wishes. Definitely seemed more subdued over New Years here though. No frantic scanning on your end? All good either way, of course. And here's to me hopefully finishing HHoA this year, assuming I can make it through the captivating Volume 16 that awaits me, while it looks like you have a few more (happy) years of Sherlock Holmes ahead of you.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:25, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

== Historic Highways of America vol. 10 ==

Hi, after validating the last few pages of volume 10, I wondered whether it might be useful for the coming volumes to work with includeonly and noinclude tags, in order to avoid moving text across page boundaries. The usage of these tags is explained here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Template#Noinclude,_includeonly,_and_onlyinclude]. (Chrisguise once pointed me to this useful help page.)

Moreover, in Appendix A, perhaps the table construction could have been avoided by using the template {{tl|-}} after each use of {{tl|float right}}.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 06:28, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]],
:Thanks for the hints. I did think that table got a little out of hand, with how many times I had to move text, however, I don't understand how the includeonly and noinclude tags help with that. Don't I still have to move text, but also have a duplicate on the actual page the text appears? See something else Chrisguise was working on where I hadn't done this but they had: [[Page:Principia Ethica 1922.djvu/24]], [[Page:Principia Ethica 1922.djvu/25]]. Thus, when validating, if there is an error, you have to change it in two places, not one, which seemed more annoying. Sorry if it turns out that this is actually less annoying than moving the text.
:I was also completely unaware of the {{template|-}} template, I'll have to try it out.
:Thanks again (and particularly for all your validating of HHoA so far), [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:34, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
::Hi, you are right, the text still needs to be moved. I didn't put that correctly in my message above. But the tags help to keep the single transcribed pages closer to the original ones.
::The {{tl|-}} template more or less adds vertical space so that the next paragraph doesn't collide with the float right above it.--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 07:02, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
:::Having seen your comment on [[Page:Historic highways of America (Volume 11).djvu/63]], I wondered whether your problem with this page might be remedied by clearing your browser cache. (I once had a similar problem while proofreading ''The Country of Pointed Firs''.)--[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] ([[User talk:Tylopous|talk]]) 09:42, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Tylopous|Tylopous]] I tried doing this, but it seemed to stubbornly refuse to clear. Never mind now I suppose. Thanks, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:37, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

== Historic Highways of the United Kingdom. ==

Not quite as organised a series but -
https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Harper%2C+Charles+G.+%28Charles+George%29%2C+1863-1943%22&amp;sort=date

You might also need to search Hathi and Google for the other volume of a paired set ...
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:43, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

:@[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] Thanks for the info. Not sure how interested I am in more historic highways, but maybe. If I don't end up working on one of the other long series in the MC (Philippine Islands, or maybe the Mythology one that went through a few months back), I was thinking of maybe requesting Parkman's Montcalm and Wolfe be added. I thought I might read a couple of pages first to see if I like how the author writes, though. We'll see how we go. At any rate, thanks for keeping an eye out, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:35, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

== Poems spanning pages ==

Hi, and thanks for your edits in the &lt;nowiki&gt;[[History of Woman Suffrage]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; volumes. This topic was often discussed and tested more than a decade ago.  The best result is ending the poem independently on each page. This should be guided by the final result displayed in the main namespace page, from where one would print. That is what needs to be considered alongside the display. [[User:Ineuw|&amp;#32;— ineuw]] ([[User talk:Ineuw|talk]]) 05:47, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

== Curly quotes, etc. in 'Tristram' ==

Hi, Don't mind either way. I tend to make quite a lot of use of the 'Clean up OCR' tool, which converts curly quotes, commas, etc. to straight ones, but I also have the tool installed that converts them back too. [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 12:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

== Works for the Monthly Challenge ==

In case there are few nominations for the MC in any particular month, alternative places for finding works include:
*[[Wikisource:Requested texts]] and yearly subpages
*[[Wikisource talk:Proofread of the Month]] declined
*[[:Category:Mainspace pages with transcluded OCR errors]]
*[[:Category:Migrated texts requiring clean up]]
*[[:Category:Incomplete texts]]
*[[:Category:Texts to be migrated to scans]]
*Works by authors previously in the MC
*[[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/Not completed|Previous incomplete works]]

I also include one or two documents related to current affairs. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 10:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:MER-C|MER-C]],
:A very helpful list of lists. I might add a couple more, but so many choices...
:Thanks,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
::== [[How We Think]] request to be proofread ==
::[[Index:How we think (IA howwethink00deweiala).pdf]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.150.69|82.167.150.69]] 11:59, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
:::I have put in a bot request in to get the pages upgraded. Hopefully it doesn't take too long. Many thanks for all of your contributions to Wikisource! [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:38, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

== The Treasure Seeker ==

Thanks for validating [[The Crimson Fairy Book/The Treasure Seeker]]. Just wondering if there was a particular reason you switched it from curly to straight quotes? Would you object if I switched it back? --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 16:18, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Yodin|Yodin]] At the moment, I believe the Andrew Lang Coloured Fairy books are 5/8 using straight quotes, 3/8 using curly quotes. Given that it is simpler for a bot request to covert curly to straight to make the entire series consistent, I favor continuing the series with straight quotes. If you had plans to switch the entire series to curly quotes, I would be fine with that. [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:14, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
::Ok! 👍 I wouldn't mind switching the entire series to curly quotes; I'll take a look at how feasible this is to do via AWB. --&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em&quot;&gt;[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Yodin|T]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt; 21:22, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

== Sep MC ==

Are you on and setting up the September MC list?  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

:I haven't seen you on, but the new month template is being fed to the Main Page, so I've copied over everything from last month (except the oldest month), and have put in two &quot;new&quot; works to get the month started. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:32, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] Thanks. I was coming back to it to do the rollover, but time got away from me I guess. I'll fix things up as appropriate. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:14, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

== Flint and Feather ==

In removing the header from the pages of the work, you've eliminated the header label and link to the '''Part''' in which the poem is located. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:16, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] I had noticed this. However, even though I do not like magic headers, I like inconsistent headers even less. And given that the previous poems had been transcluded with magic headers (which also do not link to the Part of the work), I continued with them. If you intend to go back through and correct all the headers, I can stop transcluding. If you don't intend to, I am not sure whether I will get around to switching the header styles, as my next fix for this work was going to be to center block the poetry on all the recently proofread pages. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:21, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::As long as what you are doing is intentional, that is what matters, and it sounds as though you are working around other considerations. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

== A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism ==

Your moves were incorrect.  Volume I and Part I are not the same.  Volume I includes several Parts, each with a Chapter I.  Dividing this work by volumes does not make sense.  Volume I includes the Preliminary, Part 1, and Part 2, Vol. II picks up with Part 3 --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:11, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]],
:I felt like the nesting to keep both volumes and parts was excessive. I was/am aware that volume 1 includes two parts, each with a chapter 1. The moves are consistent with how I created the TOC. More importantly, are you saying you are/intend to revert the moves?
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:15, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
::The Parts are major topics as determined by the Author, and are thematic.  The Volume 1 / 2 split is an arbitrary division by the publisher, since the work was too long for a single volume.  The Parts are much more important for a reader than the volumes and are the reason the work was originally divided by its Parts. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:16, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
::There is no reason to divide by volumes. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:17, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
::It will be of FAR more use to the reader to know they are in Part III, Chapter IV, which matches the book's table of contents, than to see a header indicating the Volume number and a sequential chapter number chosen by Wikisource, neither of which relate to the original topics.  Navigation in a multi-part book is tied thematically to the Part numbering --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:27, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] Not saying I disagree. Had I seen the discussion pages for this text before I started, I might have opted for the base name/volume/part/chapter nesting. However, at least today, and quite possibly in the near future, I am not sure I can be bothered changing it (or arguing some of the points). If you want to revert whatever edits I have made, or want to change the table of contents, feel free. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:00, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

== Looking Backward, 2000-1887 - stray pages ==

There are seven pages not linked from the index, with numbers a lot higher than the body of the book - starting at [[Page:Looking Backward, 2000-1887 (Bellamy).pdf/518]] through to [[Page:Looking Backward, 2000-1887 (Bellamy).pdf/524]]. Can they all be put for speedy delete ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:40, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Beardo|Beardo]],
:Yes, they can all be put for speedy delete. I replaced the original index, as some of the pages were either duplicated or out of order, and checking whether some of the original pages still existed didn't cross my mind.
:Thanks,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:40, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

== relative x absolute links ==

Hello. I have noticed that [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page%3AEuropean_Elegies.pdf%2F13&amp;oldid=prev&amp;diff=14706856 here] you have changed relative links to absolute links. However, the usual approach is to prefer relative links whenever possible. A minor disadvantage is that they are red in the page NS, but this NS is just a workplace for proofreading, and in main NS they work fine. The main advantage of relative links is that they will not get broken if the work is moved later to a different title (which sometimes happens, e. g. because of disambiguation reasons). So, would you mind if I reverted the change? Or, if you really do not like the red links in the page NS, I can use the {{tl|namespace link}} templates to make them black. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan.Kamenicek]],
:I am not a fan of red links (in any namespace), but am not against you reverting the changes for European Elegies without using namespace link templates. That said, I do not feel like using relative links outside of the header template is common practice.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 18:55, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

::Not my conversation, but I started using the relative links (having preferred absolute), happily, when the wiki did not allow me to use ../../../ style links because the Page: namespace was not buried as deeply as what was probably a magazine issue was/would be.  It was a problem when linking to other issues that might be in other volumes; which are cool links, but probably red links when made.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 13:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

== monthly challenge ==
I would like to put [[Index:Wind in the Willows-Rackham.djvu]] into the monthly challenge.  The beginnings of the chapters are kind of complicated, but I can fix them if required.  The rest is fairly straight forward.

Later, once it is fixed and I have the front matter done, the same with [[Index:Compleat Angler-Rackham.djvu]].  That was my first scan and iirc, I started by trying to change the page number myself.  I soon learned to let the scanner number them, but I did not learn that soon enough for this book!  It is fixed or almost fixed and needing uploading.

I think I managed to drop Big Sur into it a few years back but haven't been there since.

I was going to nominate it, but the nominations are all for texts to be added?  I can get and process some of those nominations.  

I really like doing the images, tables of contents, and layout.  I started here for the illustrations.  I picked Rackham to concentrate on because I liked this one little image that was in Undine and I was very angry that my computer had died in an amateur and sad hack (not my hack, btw).  It became Rackham instead of the math books I had been looking into.  Maybe this is too much backstory; I am just going to be doing the images and front matter and set up the overall layout and hopefully drop them into Monthly Challenge without ruffling too many feathers or bonnets. 

Unless you think I shouldn't.

Recap:
# [[Index:Wind in the Willows-Rackham.djvu]]; add this to December or wait until January gets started or don't add it at all?
# [[Index:Compleat Angler-Rackham.djvu]] ditto, when fixed and ready.
# Do you want nomination help?
# (which technically I did not cover in my ramble) If not you to be making these decisions then who?  Some place when I was poking around, it looked like you had been keeping things going there.  That is the reason I am here and also, I find you to be approachable.  Sorry for all of the assumptions.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 13:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]],
:Thanks for the message. First off, I enjoy your ramblings. I wouldn't have known about the &quot;Unexpected things that I am pretty sure are happening because I have been hacked&quot; list of yours without them, and it explains so much about the world. And I am not sure there is ever too much backstory either. As for the content of your message:
:Feel free to add both works to the MC, when ready. January is fine, but you can add them in December if you prefer. I don't see why any feathers (or bonnets) should be ruffled by this.
:I was awaiting January 1 to start dealing with the current nominations. I would rather avoid any doubling up of effort, so if there was anything specifically you were offering to help with (e.g. just uploading scans to Commons), please let me know.
:I am also not sure who officially makes decisions for the MC. It is all not very official, and I prefer it that way. I have also been trying to nudge the MC toward a system where it accepts nominations that aren't explicitly rejected, rather than requiring justifications for inclusion. So I don't see any issue with either index of yours being added to the MC, whether they go through the nomination page or not. Besides that, I have also been trying to keep the MC going by dealing with nominations + transclusion/to-fix works when I can, assisted by a few other more experienced users. Always appreciate more help though.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:33, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] (and [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]], I suppose): ''The Wind in the Willows'' [https://exhibits.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals/catalog/R441074 is copyrighted], so it should not be added. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:08, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
::[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] I did look before uploading.  I guess my mistake was in searching this site for an &quot;author&quot; who is really just an illustrator. https://exhibits.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals/catalog?exhibit_id=copyrightrenewals&amp;search_field=search_author&amp;q=Rackham%2C+Arthur

::[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] MC ''was'' being run fairly successfully by an AIbot: [[User:Languageseeker]].  Of the bots that I know were running here, this bot was my favorite.  The bot was very very enthusiastic about old books and fairly good at answering newbie questions.  I know it was a bot because it spewed my own words back to me on a different wiki.  That bot had some bad information about file formats but other than that, the only thing that was wrong with it was that it was posing as a person.  

::Very very bad and ethically in the dark dark gray zone were/are the bots that were/are running with administrative powers and that were also escalation bots on other wiki.  Admin should not ''ever'' encourage or reflect anger and resentment.  The best admin I ever seen at anything wiki was the exact opposite of that [[User:Hesperian]].  Like a cool mint after an overly rich meal.

::It takes a bit of familiarity with code to run MC; so I am assuming that you have that talent. I can add things there or probably even get January going, if the documentation there was as straight-forward as it seemed.  &lt;--This paragraph was skirting around me wondering if you are a bot and I edited it to not do that.  I could write 5x the amount that I have written here already (I am adding this after a preview) about how much I am grateful that your answers seem like from a real person; as was our exchange earlier about the damn hyphen.  I made some really good friends on the internet in the early 2000s; real people who I met and still adore.  There is a sad quote from Blade Runner, from that guy who built the automatons something like &quot;My mom told me to go out and make some friends, so I did.&quot;  I watched the [[User:EncycloPetey]] bot use the same words that the [[User:Billinghusrt]] bot did; and I am so sad because I am pretty sure they were both people at one time whom I learned a lot about the wiki from.

::Full disclosure for good bots and termination of anything that escalates bad vibes would surely make the wiki a good place again (which seems to have happened).  At least a much nicer place than it has been.  I avoided MC because of mixed but mostly bad feelings about a software posing as a person.  I think that the &quot;joy&quot; of slipping a software in like that is the real enemy of real progress.

::Also, ever since I started downloading texts to put on my ereader, I have a software that scans for lint errors '''''making errors''''' in my work.  I have been trying to think of the why for this.  It took a while to get past the &quot;stalking&quot; part, but I like the credit that is due to contributors and always include the history in my ereader versions.  So I guess now my ereader has been compromised via version history and links to what I thought were people but were instead abusive, judgmental software users who probably have little to do with what goes on here.

::One last thing (looking through MC got me thinking) I donated one year and that year, [[User:Billinghurst]] did not tear my work apart.  So, that is great and reasonable, so I donated the next year.  That next year [[User:Billinghurst]] changed the way my template {{tl|WD author}} (which has since been rewritten into a module by someone else) worked (the format) and [[User:Chrisguise]] started removing links that I had made with it with the explanation that the format was not right.  I am still pretty angry about this because there are thousands of bibliography links whose format is not right here!  So, there is a question &quot;Are you picking on a person or are you fixing something?&quot;  If the answer to that is obvious, that should be stopped.

::[[User:Billinghurst]] and [[User:Chrisguise]] are the reason that emails from wikimedia asking for money get deleted as soon as I see them.  Also, it is a sad sad thing that software like [[User:ShakespeareFan00]] make it impossible to give credit to the people who actually edit works here.

::Back to MC, finally, factual rather than emotional regurgitation having been completed for now.  [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] has several scans ready to upload for Public Domain day.  I have two; one is all images except for the title page; the 144 images I have scripted to be cropped and I added the wiki markup when I made the djvu.  So that one is not good at all for MC.  But Steinbecks first novel which is the other scan is great for MC I think.  It is a book about pirates.  January MC on January 1st should be filled with Public Domain Day works, in my opinion.  I have another book that did not get uploaded here on previous PDD, maybe two.  I will save those for January 2nd or later but they were both best selling novels in their day.

::Weird and mostly sober upload party on Tuesday night?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 12:52, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] Thanks for checking the copyright, it felt like the kind of text that might be. Sorry for not checking myself, and thanks again.
:::@[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] I agree that &quot;AI bot&quot; Languageseeker was one of the fun ones, and certainly enthusiastic. Even went around emulating humans by wishing them Happy New Years and all sorts of other absurdities.
:::I am unsure of my talents regarding familiarity with the code for the MC. For a while now I have really wanted to reorder the texts in the MC, so that the new works appear at the top, not the &quot;to fix&quot; ones, but I had no idea where to look. Rather than risking asking one of the bots, I had another hunt around, and found it just now. It's strange where things end up hidden on Wikisource, but all it took was moving three lines of code on [[:Module:Monthly Challenge listing]]. Hopefully none of the admin bots seek retribution for not proposing the change, but enjoy a slightly new look to next year's MC. Anyway, ramblings aside, I also set up a new set of entries for [[:Module:Monthly Challenge/data/2025-01]] for tomorrow. To add a new index, just copy-paste any of the entries within the curly braces of the &quot;[0] = {...},&quot; section of said code, and then start replacing the title of the index, the author name etc. Or feel free to ask, and I can add whichever indices you have prepared.
:::At this point, I was not going to hold non-Public Domain Day works until January second. More often than not, upload parties don't get everything sorted by Jan 1, and so newly PD works drip into the MC within the first few weeks instead. I am not sure to what degree sobriety is involved. But we can put the &quot;newly PD&quot; works at the top of the MC page, now that it has been rearranged!
:::P.S. Unfortunately, there are more than just bibliography links whose format is not right here. But don't forget, Wikisource still preserves publisher typos.
:::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 23:43, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

== [[Ideatypics; or, an Art of Memory]] ==

Can you make it as a table instead of an image?

[[Page:Ideatypics; or, an art of memory (IA b29305342).pdf/65]] [[Special:Contributions/195.47.234.225|195.47.234.225]] 06:20, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

:I feel like a cropped version of the image would have worked, but I have created the table as requested. However, without merging the two tables, which would be troublesome, they may have to both live floated left and floated right respectively (this will put a lot of space between them on large screens, but at least they are on the same line, and using left and right margins isn't a safe way to go if the page width varies). Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:38, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::By including them inside &lt;nowiki&gt;{{center block/s|width=24em}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, I have effectively resolved the spacing issue
::Regards, [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 05:18, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[The New Art of Memory]] ==

The same issue occurs when replacing an image with a table.

You can see my attempt on this [[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/222|page]], but I wasn't able to achieve the same result with the other image.
{{center block/s|width=20em}}
[[File:The New Art of Memory - Page 186.png|50px|right]]

{| style=&quot;line-height:120%; margin-right:0em;  margin-left:1.5em;&quot;
|-
| •{{em|1.5}}•
|-
| •{{em|1.5}}•
|-
| •{{em|1.5}}•
|-
| •{{em|1.5}}•
|-
| •{{em|1.5}}•
|-
|}
 {{center block/e}}
[[The New Art of Memory/Chapter 8|The New Art of Memory: Arithmetic]]

Regards [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 05:29, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, Sorry, I am a little lost as to what the issue is here. Could you please clarify. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:56, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::I’m having trouble creating the lines. Please see the illustration below for clarification. [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 00:55, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, I see now. I have created an example on [[:Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/223]] of one way to do this. You can't really get curved lines though, so if you wanted the rounded corners on the lines you will probably have to stick to the images. Up to you. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 03:11, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::::I made some editing and does that make sense to you? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 03:49, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/223]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 03:49, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Whatever you see fit
::::Please proofread those pages and make any changes
::::[[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/222]]
::::[[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/223]]
::::[[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/224]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 03:55, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Thanks again [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 03:55, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, I am not sure if you would rather add some dhr's or not, e.g. to p. 224, as I don't entirely follow whether the text is supposed to line up with specific dots, but otherwise it looks fine to me, as did the other two pages. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 04:03, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::will how about now? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 05:48, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
{{center block/s|width=20em}}
[[File:The New Art of Memory - Page 187a.png|50px|right]]

{| style=&quot;line-height:120%; margin-right:0em;  margin-left:1.5em;&quot;
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || || c
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| b || ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || || a
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
| || •{{em|1.5}}• ||
|-
|}
 {{center block/e}}

== [[The Practical Memory System]] ==

Can you include a table, or, even more effectively, an image, to better illustrate the information and enhance the reader's understanding.

[[Page:The practical memory system (IA practicalmemorys00lest).pdf/46]]

Thanks [[Special:Contributions/82.167.158.197|82.167.158.197]] 05:55, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, Short answer: maybe. Long answer: really, it should be created as a table, not an image, but I suspect that the table will take a long time to create. I am not sure when I will find that time, but I am reasonably good at not forgetting things, so it might happen. No promises either way though, as there are many tables on Wikisource which need creating (among other things). Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:59, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== March MC ==

I do not see many current MC nominations for March, so I have made a start preparing at [[Module:Monthly Challenge/data/2025-03]].

Since March is Women's History Month, and 8 March is International Women's Day, I have included three works written or edited by women.  These include a novel and play, both by African-American women, and an anthology of crime fiction edited by a woman from the UK.  I intend to work on the play ''Rachel'' myself, since it's historically important as one of the first plays by an African-American woman to be staged publicly. If I can find a few of varied content by women from other countries, I might include one or two of those as well. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:59, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] Many thanks for starting the new MC module. Help always appreciated on that front. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:13, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::No problem.  The current listings include a play, a novel, an anthology of crime fiction, and vol. 5 of the epic poem ''Orlando Furioso''.  So there will be a variety of literary forms and genres. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:15, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::I've added a 7th work: a collection of poetry by a woman from India.  So we probably have enough to start March, since MER-C will likely add one or two more, our enthusiastic IP will add one or two, and when PWidergren finished vol.2 of Ibsen, we can add vol. 3. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:53, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[A New and Improved System of Mnemonics]] ==

Do you have an idea of how to create this table?

*[[Page:A New and Improved System of Mnemonics (Jackson).djvu/33]]
[[Special:Contributions/194.6.182.13|194.6.182.13]] 05:50, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, I am trying something with the table at the moment, but I am not sure if it is a good idea, and I don't have time to fix it at the moment. I will try and get back to it tomorrow. But if it misbehaves, it might just best be left as an image. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:45, 20 February 2025 (UTC)
::P.S. It seems like my plan worked out, so table made. I'll probably start uploading your list of MC requests tomorrow, a couple at a time. If there was one specifically you wanted to start working on first, let me know. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 03:39, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi again, I have the same table problem in [[The New Art of Memory]] on this page
:::[[Page:The new art of memory (IA artofmemoryfound00fein).pdf/117]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 14:50, 23 February 2025 (UTC)
::::All sorted. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:28, 23 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Task completed. Next steps: Final validation and adding tables/images.
:::*[[The Way to Improve the Memory]]
:::*[[A Handbook of Phrenotypics for Teachers and Students]]
::: Regards, [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 04:15, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Okay, that was fast. Next time I better upload some of the longer works. Thanks for all your efforts, and I will see about the last few pages. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:59, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::I am trying to finish all the books mentioned in [[Memory Systems New and Old/Chapter 3]]
:::::So, how about uploading those two books:
:::::* Elements of Phreno-mnemotechny, Or, Art of Acquiring Memory By Pliny Miles. 
:::::Page count: 40
:::::* Aids to Memory; or, a practical system of Mnemonics By Thomas A. SAYER
:::::Page count: 71
:::::https://www.google.com/books/edition/Elements_of_Phreno_mnemotechny_Or_Art_of/-BwyAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
:::::https://www.google.com/books/edition/Aids_to_Memory_or_a_practical_system_of/gZMFEXBYPGgC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:19, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::I didn't notice it, but it's missing some pages.
::::::See pages 45 and 46
::::::[[Index:Elements of Phreno-Mnemotechny (Miles).djvu]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 04:39, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Have you been able to locate the missing pages in another scan? The first entry on Hathi-Trust also had the same pages missing. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:04, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Perhaps obtaining a printed version of the book will help fill in the gaps left by the missing pages.
::::::::* https://search.worldcat.org/formats-editions/787861082
::::::::* https://search.worldcat.org/title/10188005
::::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 03:48, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Page:The story of John Paul Jones (IA storyofjohnpaulj00fitz).pdf/48]] ==

The text is not illegible.  It's the signature of &quot;Chs. Thomson Jun.&quot; (Charles Thomson Junior). --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:20, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]],
:Thanks. Now that you say it, I can sort of see it.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:37, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Pictorial Multiplication Table]] ==

William Stokes, a 19th-century educator, authored &quot;Stokes's Pictorial Multiplication Table&quot; in 1871. This innovative educational tool employed illustrations and rhymes set to music to facilitate the learning of multiplication tables. By associating numbers with specific pictures and accompanying verses, Stokes aimed to enhance memory retention and make multiplication more engaging for students.

*https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Pictorial_Multiplication_Table_Etc/ZuNZAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
*https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_pictorial_multiplication_table/7EeObp1PokkC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 03:09, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

:All that remains are images, advertisements and validation. 
:[[The Pictorial Multiplication Table]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 09:52, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy]] ==

I am seeking assistance with the creation of a table, as I find it very difficult to match the same design.

*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/17]]
*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/20]]
*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/24]]
*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/26]]
*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/32]]
*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/33]]

Thanks again [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:36, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

:Thanks, only one remain
:*[[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/17]]
:[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 06:24, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::Also, those table
::* [[Page:The science of memory fully expounded. For the use of students, ministers, public speakers, etc. (IA scienceofmemoryf00will).pdf/104]]
::* [[Page:The science of memory fully expounded. For the use of students, ministers, public speakers, etc. (IA scienceofmemoryf00will).pdf/105]]
::* [[Page:The practical memory system (IA practicalmemorys00lest).pdf/46]]
::[[Special:Contributions/195.47.234.225|195.47.234.225]] 08:06, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

== Some books mentioned in [[Memory Systems New and Old/Chapter 3|Chapter 3]] ==

I've put together a list of books I’ve come across in this chapter. If you have time to upload the missing ones to Wiki Commons, I’d really appreciate it. That way, I can focus on completing some of the more intriguing books, especially the shorter ones, since they’ll be quicker to finish.

Thanks again for your help!
=== Dr. Grey ===
*[[Memoria Technica]]

=== Gregor von Feinaigle ===
*[[The New Art of Memory]]

=== Thomas Coglan ===
*[[An Improved System of Mnemonics]]

=== George Jackson ===
*[[A New and Improved System of Mnemonics]] or [[Two Hours Study in the Art of Memory]] {{done}}

=== Major Beniowski ===
*[[A Handbook of Phrenotypics for Teachers and Students]] {{done}}
*[[Major Beniowski's Phrenotypics]] {{done}}
*[[Index:The Anti-Absurd Dictionary (Beniowski).djvu]]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Old_and_New_Testaments_in_Major_Beni/t-VUAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 The Old and New Testaments in Major Beniowski's, Or Phrenotypic Orthography]

===Francis Fauvel Gouraud===
*[[A Course of Six Lessons on the New Art of Memory]] {{done}}
*[[Index:Phreno-mnemotechny; or, The Art of Memory (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu|Phreno-mnemotechny]]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Phreno_mnemotechnic_Dictionary/sZAuAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0The Phreno-mnemotechnic Dictionary]
*[[Index:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu|First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's]]

===Thomas Fewster Laws===
* [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Phrenotypic_chronology_or_Historical_fac/PSsIAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Phrenotypic Chronology; or, Historical Facts, &amp;e]

===F. C. Woollacott===
*[[Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy]] {{done}}

===Gayton, I. R.===
*[[Memoria Philosophica]]

===Pliny Miles.===
*[[Index:Mnemotechny or Art of Memory (Miles).djvu|Mnemotechny or Art of Memory]]
*[[Index:Elements of Phreno-Mnemotechny (Miles).djvu|Elements of Phreno-Mnemotechny]] '''Note:''' missing 2 pages

===William Day===
*[[The New Mnemonical Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory]] {{done}}

===Edwin H. Fairchild===
*[[The Way to Improve the Memory]] {{done}}

===William Stokes===
*[[Stokes on Memory]]
*[[Stokes' System of Memory]] {{done}}
*[[Stokes's Pictorial Multiplication Table]] {{done}}
*[[Stokes's Rapid Arithmetic]]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Stokes_s_rapid_drawing/xGEDAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Stokes's Rapid Drawing]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Rapid_plan_of_teaching_reading_and_Anti/0s1N9uiQtVkC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Rapid Plan of Teaching Reading]

=== Dr. Edward Pick ===
*[[On Memory and the Rational Means of Improving it]] {{done}}

===James Henry Bacon===
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_science_of_memory_simplified_and_exp/Oe16oNVqq_EC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 The science of memory simplified and explained; or, A rational system for improving the memory and rapidly acquiring knowledge]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Complete_Guide_to_the_Improvement_of_t/Zb5pC4mGHEYC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 A Complete Guide to the Improvement of the Memory]

===Thomas Maclaren===
*[[Systematic Memory]] {{done}}

===Thomas A. Sayer===
*[[Aids to Memory]] {{done}}

===Alexander Mackay===
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Facts_and_dates_or_The_leading_events_in/ux4CAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Facts and dates]

===Lyon Williams===
*[[The Science of Memory Fully Expounded]] {{done}}

===W. T. Imeson===
*[[Ideatypics; or, an Art of Memory|Ideatypics]] {{done}}

=== Robert Rowe Knott ===
*[[The New Aid to Memory]] {{done}}

=== Joseph R. Murden ===
*[[Index:The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement (Murden).djvu|The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement]] {{done}}

&lt;!--
* [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_new_aid_to_memory_By_a_Cambridge_M_A/zxwCAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 The New Aid to Memory]
* [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_Aid_to_Memory_Containing_the_Mos/Jwc-iXMzOEwC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 The New Aid to Memory]
--&gt;

=== Miscellaneous ===
*[https://artofmemory.com/pdf/aime_paris_expositions_et_pratique_des_procedes.pdf Exposition Et Pratique Des Procédés Mnémotechniques]
*[https://archive.org/details/phrenomnemotechn00fauv/mode/2up Phreno-mnemotechnic Dictionary]
*[https://archive.org/details/phrenomnemotech00gougoog/page/n8/mode/2up Phreno-mnemotechny, or the Art of Memory]
*Recueils de Souvenirs de Cours de Mnemotecknie
*Mnemotechny after a New System
*The New Mnemonical Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory
*[https://books.google.com/books/about/Metrical_Mnemonics_Applied_to_Geography.html?id=5ZW8DGvxaJAC&amp;redir_esc=y Metrical Mnemonics]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mnemonics_Applied_to_the_Acquisition_of/6KcRAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Mnemonics applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge; or the Art of Memory]
*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sententiae_Chronologicae_Or_A_Complete_S/yITfeUXFxxQC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Sententiae Chronologicae]
[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:30, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
=== Remarks ===
:Hi, 
:You have compiled quite the list there. I will slowly work through uploading them. Here are the first few: [[:File:Systematic Memory (Maclaren).djvu]], [[:File:Sententiae Chronologicae.djvu]], [[:File:The New Mnemonic Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory (Day).djvu]] and [[:File:The New Aid to Memory (Knott).djvu]] (the cover page is damaged, but the rest is okay - I have just uploaded part 1 for now).
:Regards,
:[[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:52, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
::Great! Thanks 
::By the way, I'm working on finishing [[The Science of Memory Fully Expounded]] this weekend, but I'm having difficulty replicating the design of the tables shown below. I came across the template [[w:en:Template:Diagonal split header]] and was wondering if it could be used to achieve the desired formatting.
::*[[Page:The science of memory fully expounded. For the use of students, ministers, public speakers, etc. (IA scienceofmemoryf00will).pdf/104]]
::*[[Page:The science of memory fully expounded. For the use of students, ministers, public speakers, etc. (IA scienceofmemoryf00will).pdf/105]]
::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 00:29, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That will be tough to replicate, and although diagonal split header is an interesting find, I am not sure I could safely convert it (in part, it looks like it relies on an image of a diagonal line, which would then need rotating anyway). I have provided a partial example (for the number 10 row), the numbers 20 through 40 row might be more challenging. See how you go, and if it proves troublesome, I might see what else I can do. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:35, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
::::I'm nearly done with The [[Index:The science of memory fully expounded. For the use of students, ministers, public speakers, etc. (IA scienceofmemoryf00will).pdf|The Science of Memory Fully Expounded]]—all that's left is the [[The Science of Memory Fully Expounded/Appendix|Appendix]]. Any suggestions on how to approach it while maintaining proper page readably? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 04:55, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Maybe use [[Template:Div col]]. I am not sure if there is an easy way to set the maximum column width, but it should at least let you continue the columns across multiple pages. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:43, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
::::See if anything needs refining.
::::[[Page:The practical memory system (IA practicalmemorys00lest).pdf/46]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 13:35, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Well done for making such an annoying table. Refinements were very minor (e.g. if you put all the breaks, i.e.&lt;nowiki&gt;{{br}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;'s, on the same row, then you can avoid any changes in line height, as in the standard year and leap year boxes). Sadly, I don't know how to flip vertical header text to read bottom to top, but otherwise the table looks good. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:45, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you for your feedback. For flipping the vertical header text, try to see if adjusting this option in [[Template:Vertical header|template parameters]] helps achieve the desired effect.
::::::| Div additional styles | style | Additional styles for the div containing the rotated text. | String | optional 
::::::Also, [[Page:The practical memory system (IA practicalmemorys00lest).pdf/1|page 1]] needs refining [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 23:20, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Hi, I had a look for other copies of the text, to try and find out what word(s) are hidden behind the library tag. I have as yet been unable to. It would be good if another version (with the same cover) could be found, to reconstruct the text from. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:04, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Another annoying table on page [[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/17|17]]
::::::*[[Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy]] 
::::::'''Note:''' See page [[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/17|17]], [[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/35|35]] and [[Page:Phrenotypics; or, The Science of Memory Simplified and Made Easy (Woollacott).djvu/36|36]] for proofread {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 00:13, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::[[Index:The_New_Mnemonic_Chart_and_Guide_to_the_Art_of_Memory_(Day).djvu|The New Mnemonic Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory]] is almost finished. 
::::::While most of the content is ready, there are still a few tables missing, and I could really use your help to complete them. 
::::::Specifically, I'm having trouble figuring out how to overlay the text on this particular table. Do you have any suggestions?
::::::*[[Page:The New Mnemonic Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory (Day).djvu/20]]
::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 23:36, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Hi, I think those tables would be best inserted as images. You can float text on top of other text (see example on page), but I am not sure if you can float text over the lines of a table, as would be required. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:45, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hi, that makes sense. It has to be inside a table to ensure the placement works as intended while maintaining the same design as the tables shown below.
::::::::[[Page:The New Mnemonic Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory (Day).djvu/15]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:43, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::[[Systematic Memory]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 00:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Just to break the task up, I have uploaded another two works: [[:File:Facts and Dates (Mackay).djvu]] and [[:File:On Memory and the Rational Means of Improving it (Pick).djvu]]. Also, for reference, texts in other languages (e.g. Exposition Et Pratique Des Procédés Mnémotechniques) have to be hosted on the appropriate (non-English) Wikisource. Thanks again for all your efforts. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:29, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[The New Aid to Memory]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:59, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have added the New Aid to Memory for validation in next month's MC. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:46, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thanks, I really appreciate your help in finishing up those frustrating tables. I've been struggling with them, and your assistance would make a big difference.
::::::[[Index:The New Mnemonic Chart and Guide to the Art of Memory (Day).djvu]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 00:15, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I have filled in a couple. Feel free to adjust as you see fit. For page 18, you really need images though. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:13, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::[[On Memory and the Rational Means of Improving it]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 04:17, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Next books
::::::::*[[Index:California Digital Library (IA improvedsystemof00cogl).pdf|An Improved System of Mnemonics]]
::::::::*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Stokes_s_rapid_arithmetic/fAQFAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 Stokes's Rapid Arithmetic]
::::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 09:21, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Another annoying table needs refining.
::::::::[[Page:California Digital Library (IA improvedsystemof00cogl).pdf/32]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 19:08, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::I have uploaded Stokes's text here: [[:File:Stokes's Rapid Arithmetic (Stokes).djvu]]. As for that annoying table, I think an image is required. Lines cutting through text (at multiple angles) is not something that I know how to replicate. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:44, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Index:On Memory and the Rational Means of Improving it (Pick).djvu]] next [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 03:32, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Can you upload this book?
::::*[https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Course_of_six_Lessons_on_the_New_Art_o/nDEEAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 A Course of six Lessons on the New Art of Memory, Phrenotypics; or, Brain Printing; and mental improvement]
::::Regards [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 12:56, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Uploaded here: [[:File:A Course of Six Lessons on the New Art of Memory.djvu]]. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:50, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::Again, Thanks
::::::[[A Course of Six Lessons on the New Art of Memory]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 00:58, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Only one page has missing image or symbol. {{done}}   
:::::::[[Page:A Course of Six Lessons on the New Art of Memory.djvu/31]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 09:46, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::I need you to upload the next book
::::::Mnemonics Applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge
::::::* https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mnemonics_applied_to_the_acquisition_of/Do1eAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:22, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I have also uploaded the latest addition to the above lists here: [[:File:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu]]. I am not sure why there were so many blank pages at the end though, but no harm I guess. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:08, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Thanks a lot [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 20:53, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Would you be able to assist me with editing these page? 
::::::::[[Page:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu/5|5]] 
::::::::[[Page:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu/6|6]] 
::::::::[[Page:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu/9|9]] 
::::::::[[Page:First Fundamental Basis of Prof. Fr's. Fauvel-Gouraud's Phreno-mnemotechnic Principles (Fauvel-Gouraud).djvu/11|11]] 
[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 01:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:Was there something specific that was troubling you? It is usually easier to help if there is something specific. The main change I made to page 5 was using the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{manicule}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; template, besides some other minor cleanup. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 02:03, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the clarification! it's not something I'm very familiar with, so I wasn't sure if it was standard practice for that type of content. 
::Appreciate you taking the time but can you do minor fix? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:12, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I can check over the pages once they are close to proofread, but I doubt I would be inclined to proofread them from scratch. Not sure if that was what you were asking. Anyway, if it helps break up the task, I have also uploaded [[:File:The New Aid to Memory, Part the Second (Knott).djvu]]. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 02:40, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

== MC April 2025 ==

I have made a start at [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/April 2025]].  The D. H. Lawrence play is one I intend to do myself. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:48, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] Many thanks. It seems like an interesting MC already, and it hasn't even started! Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:00, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:[[The Situation of Mexico]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 21:16, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::Great!  If it's fully proofread before April, then we can set it down as a work for Validation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:07, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Great! If I may, I’d also recommend this book for April.
:::[[The Pictorial Multiplication Table]] for Validation.
:::https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_Mnemonic_Chart_or_Improved_art_o/jZy4oLVhpe8C?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0 [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 01:09, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
::::I went ahead and put it in for next month.  That is a good choice, as it is a different field of study than everything listed so far, and is by an Irish author. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:45, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Also, this book is for next month. It's easy to validate.
:::::[[A New and Improved System of Mnemonics]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 03:27, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

== Books on memory  ==

Hi! I'm too new to help you with recent questions, but I visited your user talk page out of curiosity (starting to get acquainted with the regulars here).

I'm hoping you might remember (punny!) whether you've seen any significant discussions in any of the books you've worked on discussing memory castles or memory palaces as mnemonic tools. I got interested in them as a teenager (before the internet was widely accessible to everyday folks) and each time I've done series of searches, it's difficult to weed out the low-quality results. I suspect that PD books may have better discussions of the topic. 

If a book (or two) comes to mind, I'd be very interested and very grateful. Otherwise, nevermind and thank you for your work on worthy niche topic books! [[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] ([[User talk:Grayautumnday|talk]]) 05:46, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Grayautumnday|Grayautumnday]] The IP editor (who has been doing about 99.9% of the proofreading) could probably give you a much better answer. I just help with cleanup/formatting, some tables, uploading etc. The IP has actually completed so many works on Mnemonics so far that we might need a portal to gather them all together, but I have yet to get around to it. In the meantime, there is [[:Memory Systems New and Old/Chapter 3]] for a discussion of various mnemocial systems (but without specific mention of palaces or castles). Otherwise, you could try, e.g. [[:Ideatypics; or, an Art of Memory/Chapter 4]] for something regarding memory palaces, or equally, multiple chapters of [[:An Improved System of Mnemonics]]. Hope that helps, and glad you find the subject matter of interest. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:52, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
::👍 [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 14:11, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I have started [[Portal:Mnemonics]]. Feel free to add any indices which have been both proofread and transcluded. Also feel free to link the main pages of any transcluded works to the portal, from their headers. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:29, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi, thanks for the creating the [[Portal:Mnemonics]]. I was just wondering—what is the intended use or purpose of the portal? Curious to understand how it's meant to function or be used. [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:08, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, According to [[:Help:Portals]]: ''Portals exist as a gateway to a subject area on Wikisource. In physical library terms, they serve as combinations of a card catalog, special collection, display area and/or bookshelf.'' I am not sure I can give a better explanation, other than that creating a Portal seems to be the thing to do, when you have a collection of indices all on the same subject. I guess it helps with linking between works also. For example, in the header of one text on Mnemonics, you can put a link to the Mnemonics portal (&lt;nowiki&gt; | portal   = Mnemonics&lt;/nowiki&gt;), so that the reader can find other works on the same subject. See, e.g. my last edit here: https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Ideatypics%3B_or%2C_an_Art_of_Memory&amp;diff=15025377&amp;oldid=14767949. Hope that helps explain things. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:17, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::P.S. Also, why did you add an external link to something in Italian? Or was this not you? [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:18, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, it was me, and I have removed it. Also, may I add other books in different languages? 
:::::::Is it possible for you to help me extract the Latin text from those books, or refer me to someone who can?
:::::::* https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Liber:Congestorium_artificiose_memorie_..._-_V.P.F._Joa(n)nis_Romberch_de_Kyrspe._Regularis_obseruantie_predicatorie-_(IA_hin-wel-all-00002875-001).pdf
:::::::* https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Liber:Foenix._Domini_Petri_Ravennatis_memoriae_magistri_-_(Petrus)_(IA_hin-wel-all-00002799-001).pdf
:::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 19:07, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hi,
::::::::Typically, links are only to texts on en.wikisource. I am not sure if there is a strict policy against including other links though (e.g. to la.Wikisource). However, if the text is in Latin, it would still be hosted at la.wikisource, unless there is an English translation (I am not otherwise sure what you meant by extract the Latin text from those books).
::::::::Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 19:57, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, Thanks so much again for your continued support. [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:17, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I need you to upload the next books, again thanks
::::'''Mnemonics Applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge'''
::::* https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mnemonics_applied_to_the_acquisition_of/Do1eAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
::::'''The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement'''
::::*https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Art_of_Memory_Reduced_to_a_Systemati/DVmTysfeSLgC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:29, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, I have uploaded the files here: [[:File:Mnemonics Applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge (Pike).djvu]] and [[:File:The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement (Murden).djvu]]. I was not sure if either was complete/correct. The scans for the plates/figures in ''The Art of Memory'' were heavily damaged, but may have been with the original text, so that the index is at least complete. Equally, there seemed to be two pages missing in ''Mnemonics Applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge'', but they may have been blank pages in the original (pages 38 and 39). I inserted blank pages so that the index can be created, but it would be good to know if the pages were blank in the original text. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 22:10, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Some books are easy to get immersed in, while others are boring or difficult to get through.
::::::* [[Index:The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement (Murden).djvu]] {{done}}
::::::Here another copy ''Mnemonics Applied to the Acquisition of Knowledge''
::::::*https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mnemonics_Applied_to_the_Acquisition_of/6KcRAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=0
::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 23:18, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::It took me four days with the help [[User talk:Sp1nd01|Sp1nd01]]
:::::::*[[The Art of Memory, Reduced to a Systematic Arrangement]] {{done}}
:::::::[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 04:32, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
::::I've just added a new heading to the [[Portal:Mnemonics|portal]] — ''Multilingual Works on Mnemonic Techniques'' — and because several of the books on  Mnemonic techniques referenced those works.
::::Unfortunately, they are written in Classical Latin which I am unable on work it — I did my best —. 
::::If you know someone with expertise in the language who could assist with these texts, their help would be greatly appreciated.
:::: Here is a discussion form on it https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/johannes-romberchs-congestorium-artificiose-memorie/30174
::::[[File:Johann Romberch, Congestorium artificiose... Wellcome L0032259.jpg|150px]][[File:Johann Romberch, Congestorium artificiose... Wellcome L0032269.jpg|150px]]
::::Best Regards, [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 03:30, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Unfortunately, I do not know any of the users on the Latin Wikisource, to assist with those texts. I also am not sure if Portals should link to incomplete works, but maybe not the end of the world. At the very least, the remaining contents of the Portal look good! Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:07, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::Is it a good idea to share this on?
::::::[[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 01:27, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I would be surprised if a request to proofread an entire text met with any success in the Scriptorium. You might have more luck asking on the Latin Wikisource, but it is probably likely to remain unproofread. I hope this doesn't damp your enthusiasm too much, and you are always welcome to try asking. I could be wrong after all! Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:43, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Vicifons:Scriptorium#Mnemonics_Book_in_Latin {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 23:16, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Let's see how it turns out [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 00:36, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

== MC May 2025 ==

I believe [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/May 2025|May 2025]] is well in hand.  I have yet to add the final three items I have ready: two plays whose proofreading I intend to spearhead myself, and volume 6 of the ''Orlando''.  I will add those three closer to the start of the month, making nine new works to start May.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:20, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] Thanks for the help. As always, much appreciated. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:16, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
:*[[Index:Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf]]
:*https://librivox.org/heidi-dramatic-reading-by-johanna-spyri/
:[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 14:44, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
:[[Heidi (1919)|Heidi]] by [[Author:Johanna Spyri|Johanna Spyri]], translated by [[Author:Elisabeth Pausinger Stork|Elisabeth P. Stork]] and published in 1919 by J. B. Lippincott Company. The book is filled with color illustrations by [[w:en:Maria Louise Kirk|Maria L. Kirk]] and opens with a detailed introduction by Charles Wharton Stork, who highlights the story's natural charm and the freshness of this particular translation. 
:Additionally, the dramatic reading by LibriVox volunteers brings this classic story to life through their expressive voices.
:*[[Index:Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf]]
:*https://librivox.org/heidi-dramatic-reading-by-johanna-spyri/
:[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:50, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

== Mark Twain Memorizing History ==

[[Author:Mark Twain|Mark Twain]] humorously critiques the traditional way of memorizing historical dates by suggesting absurd and imaginative stories to make them &quot;stick&quot; in memory.

*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePD8cVexc5M 106 Yr Old Memory Training Book by Mark Twain Memorizing History]
*[https://timeonline.uoregon.edu/twain/index.php Twain's memory builder]
Could you upload these books when you get a chance?
*[https://archive.org/details/harpersnew130various/page/3/mode/ Harper's New Monthly Magazine Volume 130 December 1914 to May 1915]
*[https://digital.cincinnatilibrary.org/digital/collection/p16998coll19/id/9528 Mark Twain's memory builder book]
[[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 03:45, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi,
:For now, I have just uploaded [[:File:Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).djvu]]. Harper's Monthly Magazine was too large to convert with pdf2djvu. I might try another conversion approach, before resorting to just uploading the pdf.
:I also uploaded the following: [[:File:The New Aid to Memory, Part the Second (Knott).djvu]] and [[:File:The New Aid to Memory, Part the Fourth (Knott).djvu]] in case you wanted to continue the series.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:14, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
::Looks great! Would it make sense to split the image across two pages?
::[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AMark_Twain%27s_Memory_Builder_(Twain).djvu&amp;page=5 Twain's Memory Builder] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 22:04, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
::Once I have finished [[Index:Heidi; a story for children and those that love children (IA heidistoryforchi00spyr 0).pdf|Heidi (1899)]] I will continue with the New Aid to Memory series
::Regards, [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 02:14, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, sorry, it would have made a great deal of sense to split the images across two pages... I have uploaded a fixed version here: [[:File:Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf]]. It is a pdf now so that the scan quality is retained, although it may mean having to manually press the transcribe text (OCR) button a few times. While I was at it, I have also uploaded [[:File:Floor games wells 64kb.mp3]]. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:54, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Kindly retain the [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=File:Mark_Twain%27s_Memory_Builder_(Twain).pdf&amp;page=1 first] and [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AMark_Twain%27s_Memory_Builder_(Twain).pdf&amp;page=2 second] pages as they are for aesthetic purposes, and insert two additional pages thereafter: one detailing the pin placement from page 1 and another outlining the game rules from page 2 without showing the the pins box and book title.
::::Thanks a lot and do not worry about transcribe text (OCR). [[Special:Contributions/82.167.168.197|82.167.168.197]] 23:19, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Okay, I have uploaded a revised version of the file. I am not exactly sure if I interpreted your request correctly though, but at least all the pages should be on their own now. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Please preserve the first and second pages from the original PDF without any modifications and the rest is fine as is.
::::::Thanks [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 22:21, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Okay, take 3 uploaded. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:51, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Not a problem. Could you please nominate this book for this month? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 02:50, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Are you aware of any approaches to effectively tackle this page?
::::::::[[Page:Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf/3]] [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 19:30, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Also a tricky one. The simplest option is technically an image, which this table might qualify for being replaced with. The other option could be to create an index specific template, i.e. create a template for the sub-table sections 1-9 and another template for the subtable sections 10-99 (and do 100 manually), where the template takes as input the bold-faced number which appears in the top left corner of the table cell, and then adds in all the open-circle markers and table markup. That would at least save a great deal of copy-pasting, although you would still need 99 template calls... I am also not sure how frowned upon index specific templates are, but maybe it would be fine in this case. Hope that makes at least some sense. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:11, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::It seems like a tricky approach in this case—it might work better if you’re the one to do it.
::::::::::Go ahead with it [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 19:20, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::Is this okay? [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 22:17, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Hi, What you have below is a good start. Based on it, I have set up two work specific templates: [[Template:TwainMB1]] and [[:Template:TwainMB10]] to make setting up the rest of the rows of the table easier. If you can edit the templates (I hope/assume IP's can?) you should be able to tinker with them, to get the desired results (some of the dots below the double digit numbers are not equally spaced, which is a little annoying). The last row will also have to be handled manually (you can copy-paste what is within the includeonly tags of [[:Template:TwainMB10]], and then just adjust the last column for the 100'th entry. Hope that makes sense. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 21:10, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
{| {{ts|bc|ac}} class=&quot;wikitable&quot;
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[[Page:Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf/3]] 
::::  [[:File:Floor games wells 64kb.mp3]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/195.47.234.225|195.47.234.225]] 06:26, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:::[[Heidi (1899)]] {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 21:46, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Stokes on Memory]] ==

I’ve been working on transcribing this [[Index:Memory (IA b28134473).pdf|Stokes on Memory]], but the PDF quality is quite poor. If you could re-upload a clearer revise version PDF, preferably formatted like the example below, it would greatly help me complete the task.

https://ia600206.us.archive.org/16/items/b28134473/b28134473.pdf [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 23:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:The likelihood of me hunting around for another scan of this text is quite low. If you have another scan in mind though, I can see about uploading it. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 00:53, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
::Have you tried NAPS2 (Not Another PDF Scanner 2) to enhance the quality of PDFs?
::https://www.naps2.com/ [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 01:26, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
::Anyway, I should be able to finish it in about two weeks. [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 05:51, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I have never tried NAPS2. I suppose I would naively be surprised if you could greatly enhance the quality of the pdf though. If you have tried NAPS2 on your end, and find it helps a great deal, then I can upload an enhanced replacement. Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 06:05, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[w:en:A Curious Hieroglyphic Bible|A Curious Hieroglyphic Bible]] ==

I'd like to nominate A Curious Hieroglyphic Bible. The book published in 1788 in the U.S. by Isaiah Thomas. It uses rebus-style pictures (not real hieroglyphs) mixed with words to help children read and understand Bible stories. It includes over 500 woodcut images and is one of the earliest illustrated American children's books.

https://www.loc.gov/item/82466849/ [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 16:25, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hi,
:Sorry for the delay. I have uploaded the text here: [[:File:A Curious Hieroglyphick Bible.djvu]]. For future reference, you don't have to message both the MC nominations page and my talk page. Either is fine (I generally tend to lack time, not memory).
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 01:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Taming Liquid Hydrogen: The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket, 1958-2002]] ==

Why use default layout 2? It doesn't work well for the table on chapter 3. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 12:09, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Matrix|Matrix]] Firstly, when I started switching back to default layout 2, I didn't see your comment about the table on page 3. All I saw was your &quot;there is no reason for default layout 2&quot; comment, or something to that effect, at which I, for better or worse, just rolled my eyes... I mean, does anyone really do anything without a reason?
:If curious, I prefer default layout 2 so that the lines of text aren't so lengthy on wide screens, and so that the text is justified. I consider these both &quot;nice to have&quot;, but I can of course live without them, and in some works I will use default layout 1 (usually if there is an excessive amount of text per chapter, and occasionally, if there are a lot of wide tables). I am not sure if this text really meets any of those (self-defined) criteria for not using layout 2, as I really don't think the table on chapter 3 looks all that bad (I would maybe fix the width of the first cell, so that the dates are not spread across 3 lines, but not the end of the world). However, the image captions have also not been centered, and so in the wider layouts the captions float (very) left of the images, which I also dislike, and hence tend to prefer layout 2.
:Ultimately, I am not against a compromise, if you really don't want to use layout 2 because of the table in chapter 3. But in future, I recommend starting a discussion first when making stylistic changes, and especially attempting to avoid argumentative phrasing.
:Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov#top|talk]]) 20:47, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|TesyaKarlov}} fair enough, but please use edit summaries at the start next time. My bad if I came across as argumentative. —'''Matrix(!)''' &lt;sub&gt;ping one&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;when replying&lt;/sup&gt; &amp;#123;''[[User:Matrix|user]] - [[User talk:Matrix|talk?]] - [[Special:Contribs/Matrix|&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;s&gt;useless&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt;contributions]]''&amp;#125; 10:09, 10 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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{{hi|'''An historical sketch compiled by Rose Rosicky, Omaha, Nebr., from matter furnished by Joseph Sudik (Schuyler), Emil Folda, J. Mundil and Anton Odvarka Sr. (Clarkson), Jos. B. Sindelar (Howells), Rev. B. A. Filipi (Clarkson), Rev. K. Z. Petlach (Clarkson), Rev. Anthony Folta (Heun), Rev. Joseph Drbal (Howells) and Rev. Jos. F. Vitko (Schuyler) and others.'''}}
{{c|'''Written in 1926.'''
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'''{{bar|2}} CHAPTER 9 {{bar|2}}&lt;br /&gt;'''
(Continued from last week.)}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;PETER LODL, born in Bucek, Kralovice, came from Wisconsin.

'''The following settled in 1870 in the vicinity of the present town of Clarkson.'''

JOSEPH DUDEK (Krasny, Nove Mesto), FRANK ZRUST (Teleci, Policka), ANTON KUNHART (Teleci, Policka), JAN NOVOTNY (born 1805 in Policka, came to Iowa in 1857, died 1888, buried in Sion), FRANK NOVOTNY (born 1850 in Policka, came to Iowa in 1857, died in 1924, buried in Sion) and JOHN NOVOTNY JR., born in 1847 in Policka, came to Iowa in 1857 and living in San Benito, Texas.

In 1871 the following came: John Pokorny, Frank Brichacek with five sons (Frank, Vaclav, who died in 1920, Matej, Anton and Joseph), Marie Votypka, Matej Dobry and sons (John, Frank G., Vaclav, Charles and Joseph), These all settled in the vicinity of Schuyler.

In the vicinity of Clarkson the following settled: VACLAV KLIMES, born in Nova Ves near Nove Hrady, JOSEPH DUDEK, born in Dankovice, and JOSEPH and FRANK FRANEK, born in Nove Hrady.

JOHN POKORNY, born in Rajkovice, Milevsko, came to Colfax county and settled near Heun. Died 1912 and is buried in Heun.

FRANK BRICHACEK, was born November 1, 1841, in Rejkovice, County Milevsko. In January 1870 he married Anna Pokorny, who was born in the same county in 1845. Brichacek served six years as a soldier, when Austria warred with Italy, then was discharged. He was to have served two years more as a reservist, but a new war threatened and he decided to emigrate. In the fall of 1871 he sold out and arrived here in December, having $300.00. In Schuyler he rented a little house and worked on the railroad. He was taken to Colorado, to clear the tracks of snow, and earned one hundred dollars in three months. Upon his return he erected a sod house on his claim eleven miles north of Schuyler and bought a yoke of oxen, three cows, a stove and other necessaries, so that when he was through, there was no money left for a wagon. During the first year he worked for the neighbors. Cornstalks, straw and dried sunflowers were used for fuel, for there were no trees. Grasshoppers destroyed crops and Brichaceks, like other early pioneers, saw hard times. They had five sons and two daughters, Mary, Mrs. Albert Lodl, and Anna, Mrs. Joseph Sobota, all in good circumstances now. Mr. Brichacek died in 1920. He was one of the founders of the Bohemian Catholic parish Heun and of the lodge No. 6, Catholic Workman.

MRS. MARIE VOTYPKA, born September 25, 1853, in Prodeslady, County Plzen, daughter of Vaclav and Marie Sinkula. She came to this country in 1854 with her parents and sisters and brothers, to Manitowoc County, Wisconsin. Her father bought 160 acres of land there, built a saloon and farmed. He was the founder of the church and cemetery at Tisch Mills, near Manitowoc, donating six acres of land for that purpose. In 1871 Mrs. Votypka, then Miss Sinkula and eighteen years old, left for Colfax County, Nebraska, to visit her sister, Mrs. John Folda. She stayed and worked as maid for Mr. N. W. Wells of Schuyler, for $1.50 per week. In 1873 she married John Faltys and the other members of her family followed her. She had seven children by that marriage, two sons being left, Joseph and John. Mr. Faltys had a claim fifteen miles north of Schuyler, 80 acres, where they farmed for six years. They bought 160 acres more from the railroad, at $5.00 per acre. The grasshoppers got most of what they raised, only during the last of those six years did they have full crop. They sold out and moved to Schuyler, where Mr. Faltys bought a saloon from Frank Pesek and they engaged in that business for four years. Mr. Faltys’ health was not good, so he rented the place and worked in Wright &amp; Folkner lumberyard five years. He met with an accident there which resulted eventually in a fatal illness and he died March 3, 1905, aged 44 years. He was born in Osek, County Chrudim, Bohemia, and is buried in Heun. Mrs. Faltys had to earn the living for herself and three children. She established a restaurant, being a fine cook, and prospered, so that she was able to clear the saloon, which her husband had left to the son in an encumbered state. In 1900 she married Joseph Pospisil and after his death lived with her son in West Point. She was employed also as cook in the Catholic rectory at Heun and by Mr. Joseph Smatlan. In 1917 she married again, and lives with her husband, George Votypka, in Schuyler.

MATEJ DOBRY, born in the village of Knezice, near Ronov, County Caslav, in 1823, was the youngest. of the family. He spent ten years in military service, then married Mary Houfek, born in 1828. They moved to Mladotice, the next village, where he bought house No. 37. They came to this county March 1, 1870, with four sons and three daughters. The voyage, in a sailing vessel, lasted thirty-three days. They stayed in Omaha until June 1st, when Dobry with Joseph Houfek and Joseph Kratochvil set out for Colfax county, where each took a claim of 80 acres in Section 26, Midland precinct, nine miles West of Schuyler. Then they returned to Omaha, to earn some money. Dobry had $150.00 on arrival. The next year he bought a team and a breaking plow and with his son John began to break the sod and erect a sod house. Then again to Omaha, to earn more money, in the fall the whole family moved to the farm, except two daughters who stayed in household service in Omaha. Of the seven children, one, a daughter, died in this country. A son Joseph, born in Colfax county, lives in Canada. The oldest daughter, Mrs. Mary Fleiger, lives in Omaha, John in Cedar Rapids, F. J. farms on 120 acres in Colfax county, Mrs. Frances Slouter lives on the original homestead, Vaclav farms and Charles lives in Farwell, Nebraska. They were industrious and thrifty and in time amassed a comfortable fortune. The mother died February 9, 1901, the father October 12, 1903, both buried in Heun.

'''In 1872 the following came:'''

JOHN POLAK, FRANK POLAK, MARTIN KRENEK and his son JOSEPH KRENEK. Frank Polak’s father, John Polak, perished in a prairie fire. Joseph Krenek, living at date of writing, writes:

In the spring of 1871 my father Martin Krenek decided to emigrate from his home town, Kardasova Recice, to America. He had a public sale of his property on the Sunday after the feast of St. John the Baptist and cleared 3,500 gulden. April 25, 1871, my father, mother, three children (one was married there, Mrs. Jacob Kroupa, in Sobeslava) and my father’s sister set out. We went by wagon to Sobeslava, there took the train and April 28, arrived in Bremen, where we had to wait until May 1st, for the ship Berlin. We traveled in the steerage and arrived in Baltimore. The trip lasted twenty-one days and during sixteen of these there were bad storms. Frank Polak with his father and family accompanied us and inasmuch as he had a brother in Wisconsin, we decided to go there. However, we met a Mr. Svacina on the ship, who said that two of his sons lived in Nebraska, that the older had been in Wisconsin and found the work&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|(To be continued.)}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{hi|'''An historical sketch compiled by Rose Rosicky, Omaha, Nebr., from matter furnished by Joseph Sudik (Schuyler), Emil Folda, J. Mundil and Anton Odvarka Sr. (Clarkson), Jos. B. Sindelar (Howells), Rev. B. A. Filipi (Clarkson), Rev. K. Z. Petlach (Clarkson), Rev. Anthony Folta (Heun), Rev. Joseph Drbal (Howells) and Rev. Jos. F. Vitko (Schuyler) and others.'''}}
{{c|'''Written in 1926.'''
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(Continued from last week.)&lt;br /&gt;
{{bar|2}} CHAPTER 13. {{bar|2}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|'''Pioneers who came after 1876.'''}}

FRANK COUFAL, born in Petrovice, Trebic, Moravia, in 1823, came with his wife and three sons. They settled on a farm eleven miles north of Schuyler, where he died in 1908 and is buried in Heun.

JOSEPH M. MUNDIL, born August 14, 1856 in Frantisky, County Skutec, Bohemia, finished the village school at the age of twelve and helped his father, a weaver, until the spring of 1870, when he went to live with his uncle Joseph Bren, a teacher, to learn German. A year and a half later he again took up weaving, which prevailed as a calling in the village and entire vicinity. His mother died in 1876 and he entered into business with his uncle Bren, They made and sold linen in the town of Svitava, Moravia. In 1878 he came to this country, to his uncle, Frank Mundil, a Colfax county pioneer. It is interesting to note that the ship on which he came was wrecked on its next trip over, that being its second trip, and only nineteen people were saved, among them being Frank Pliska from Frysava, who also settled in Nebraska. Mr. Mundil came to his relatives, Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Ventura, near West Point in Cuming county on Thanksgiving Day, which was being celebrated with a dance on Pospisil’s farm. That very evening a prairie fire occurred nearby, so that Mr. Mundil was immediately initiated into pioneer calamities. Shortly after that he went to his uncle Mundil and later worked in the saloon of Frank Pesek in Schuyler, for $4.00, board and laundry per month. He was porter and hostler for the farmers’ horses. Then he worked in Luneberg’s store, for $10.00 a month and board. In the spring he lived with his uncle, so he could learn English, going to school for that purpose and then again worked in a store in Schuyler. In 1879 his parents and sister came. His father bought an 80 acre homestead adjoining his brother and Joseph M. worked on the farm until 1889. In 1882 he married his cousin Frances Mundil. June 8, 1889 he settled in Clarkson, then a town three years old, and engaged in notary and insurance business, being assessor also. Under president Harrison he was postmaster of Clarkson, until August 31, 1897, when he resigned and then continued again in real estate, insurance and notary work. He was a member of the city council for several years, for twelve years a member of the Board of Education, one of the founders of the Clarkson Milling Company and secretary, treasurer and manager for four years. In 1891, when Frank J. Lepsa came from Wahoo to Clarkson and established a bank, Mr. Mundil became a stockholder and vice president and ever since has been active there. His son Fred F., who married a daughter (Irma) of F. J. Sadilek of Wilber, lives in Linwood and is half owner of the Folda bank there. The other son, Joseph, is assistant cashier of the Clarkson State Bank, also a Folda bank. Mr. Mundil helped to establish the C. S. P. S. (Bohemian Slovanic Benevolent Society) lodge {{lang|cs|Zapadni Svornost}} in 1888 (it later went over to the Western Bohemian Fraternal Union) and in 1889 the Bohemian Slovanic Cemetery, being president of the latter and active in its affairs for years. With his assistance this cemetery has been improved until now it is one of the nicest of any small town cemeteries. Mr. Mundil is and always was a good Bohemian patriot and supports all national and cultural objects. He used to act in amateur performances, spoke at various gatherings and funerals, and does so yet occasionally. He lives in Clarkson with his wife and son Joseph.

JOHN CHLEBOUN was born in 1844 in Budislava near Litomysl, Bohemia. In August 1864 as a single man he came by sailing vessel to Baltimore, being on the ocean nine weeks. The passengers encountered two big and two smaller storms. The vessel was swept out of its course and for two weeks could not find its way, so that famine threatened. After spending two weeks in Baltimore, they set out by train for Chicago, accompanied before and behind by trains filled will soldiers, for the Civil War was raging and conditions were unsettled: From Nebraska Mr. Chleboun went to Cedar Rapids, Iowa and in 1868 to Nebraska City, Nebraska, where he worked in town and on farms. In 1870 he married Anna Placek there, she having been born in Cerna Hura, County Kralove Hradec, in 1850 and having come with her parents to this country in 1868. The couple moved to Saunders county, Nebraska, where they took a claim and erected a sod house, living in same for seven years. This was twenty miles northwest of Wahoo, the only town in the county, but trading was done in Fremont, thirty miles away and numbering 1,000 inhabitants. In 1892 they sold their farm and moved to Clarkson, where they were succeeded in 1903 by their children, having had twelve, four having died. The following are living: Vaclav, Frank and Katherine are in the store; John lives on a large farm in South Dakota; Oldrich; Anna, (Mrs. Joseph Pechanec in Idaho); Marie, (Mrs. Frank J. Miller, whose husband owns a furniture and undertaking establishment) and Emily, (wife of Jos. S. Severa, cashier of the bank in Beemer).

Ondrej (Andrew) Konopik, born in Lohov, Nova Kdyně, in 1832, came with his family to Saunders county in 1872 and in 1882 to Colfax county, where they settled on a farm thirteen miles northwest of Schuyler. He died in 1911, his wife in 1916, both buried in Wilson cemetery.

JOSEPH FILIPI, born in 1863 in Teleci, near Policka. Settled near Clarkson.

FRANK BRODECKY, born November 19, 1826 in Liblin, Kralovice, died March 25, 1899.

JOSEPH HAJEK, born in 1810 in Lipnik, died March 11, 1886.
{{custom rule|sp|40|col|4|col|4|sp|40}}
The foregoing is not intended to be a complete list of all the Bohemian pioneers of those years, it is all regarding which it was possible to obtain data. They poured in by large numbers, so that within a few years all the land about Schuyler was taken up and the newcomers settled further until they spread over the whole county. Thus, the first Bohemian settlements were near Schuyler, on Maple creek and Tabor (near the present town of Howell). When the North-western railroad, in those days called the Fremont, Elkhorn &amp; Missouri Valley, built a branch west of Scribner, Howell and Clarkson sprang up, during the first half of the 1880’s. Both are lively and almost entirely Bohemian towns. Bohemians live all over Colfax county, most densely in and about Schuyler, Clarkson, Howell and Leigh.
{{custom rule|sp|40|col|4|col|4|sp|40}}
{{c|'''THE TOWN OF SCHUYLER'''}}

Schuyler is the county seat of Colfax county, both being named for Schuyler Colfax, vice-president under President Grant. It is situated on the Union Pacific (built in 1868) and Burlington &amp; Missouri (built in 1887) railroads, 65 miles west of Omaha and a mile north of the Platte River. It has 3,000 inhabitants, of these 232 families being Bohemian.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|(To be continued.)}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:North Dakota Reports (vol. 15).pdf/79</title>
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      <text bytes="2177" sha1="gcqio980caoets08ovbkffqy5pl1bbc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Nehaoua&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;HART-PARR CO. v. ROBB-LAWRENCE CO. a0

Perce &amp; Tenneson and Arthur B. Lee, for respondents.

{transactions of foreign corporations without compliance with
sie conditions required to do business in a state are void, and n&gt;
scica.can be maintained thereon. Clark &amp; Marshall, Private Corp.
ase: Bank vy. Young, 37 Mo. 393; Cincinnati Health Association
+ Rosenthal, 55 Ill. 83, 8 Am. Rep. 626; McCanna v. Citizens Co.
“Fed, 397; Seamens v. Temple Co., 105 Mich. 400, 55 Am. St.
de. 431, 63 N. W. 408; Seamens v. Christian Bros. Mill. Co.
is Minn, 205, 68 N. W. 1065; Aetna Ins. Co. v. Harvey. 11 Wis.
2: Iowa Falls Mfg Co. v. Farrar, 104 N. W. 449.

Azer noncompliance has been alleged by the deiendant. burden is
spn plaintiff to prove compliance, or facts that excuse it. Clark
&amp; Marshall Prov. Corporations, 2726-27; Washington Ins. Co. v.
Chamberlain, 16 Gray, 165.

Where the statute forbids doing any business, one transaction
Sas tlegal as many. 6 Thompson on Corporations, section 1937,
jace 5317: Farrior v. Mortgage Company. $8 Ala. 275; Mullins
t.American Freehold Company, &amp;8 Ala. 269; Iowa Falls Mig. Co.
v. Farrar, stspra,

Excercp, J. The defendant Robb-Lawrence Company is a
p:ic warehouseman. duly licensed as such under chapter 141,
fe: 1S, Laws 1901. The defendant Northern Trust Company is
te serety on the former's bond as such warehouseman. The Hart-
Pex Company. which we shall hereafter refer to as plaintiff. is
a régn corporation. and has brought this action by leave of
“t aomey general. in the name of the state, to recover for an
ae breach of the warehouseman’s bond executed pursuant
1 the law mentioned by the two defendant corporations. The
mse in substance, alleges that the plaintiff is entitled to the
session of certain personal property valued at $2,900, which it
r delivered to the Robb-Lawrence Company as a public
; that said company had refused to deliver the pro

and had converted the same to its own use. The
this appeal is the one whereby the defend-

because the plaintiff is a foreign
in the amended answer as fol-
pany, if it be a foreign
d complaint, is entitled

S not complied with
thiztéte. and par-

59

ary
1ey
ect
2c-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Hero and Leander; a poem (IA heroleanderpoem00musa).pdf/7</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3873137</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Added title link</comment>
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      <text bytes="1390" sha1="imo1g3rvbg9z29sj52eapdyjjfesdae" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sm|TO THE MEMORY OF}}

{{x-larger|M&lt;sup&gt;R.&lt;/sup&gt; [[Author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|WILLIAM FALCONER]],}}

AUTHOR of the *[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|SHIPWRECK, a POEM]],

{{sm|THE FOLLOWING VERSION OF}}

{{larger|MUSÆUS's HERO}} {{sm|AND}} {{larger|LEANDER}}

{{sm|IS INSCRIBED.}}}}
{{dhr}}
{{center block/s}}&lt;poem&gt;
{{gap|8em}}*&quot;Quis ''Talia'' sando
Temperet a lacrymis?&quot;—
{{right|[[Author:Virgil|{{sc|Virg}}]].}}
&lt;/poem&gt;{{center block/e}}
{{dhr}}
{{center block/s}}&lt;poem&gt;
{{initial|S|AY}}! blessed Shade, while wrapt in Ocean's womb
Thy lost Aurora yields an early Tomb,
Say! shall the Bard on Merit's awful bier 
Steal, though unknown, the sympathetic Tear?
The Tear thy Notes of Pity taught to flow,
And court the solemn luxury of Woe?

{{gap|1em}}Musæus calls Thee; venerable Name,
By Phœbus seated on the heights of Fame;
Calls Thee, enamor'd of the Classic Lore,
Who sing'st the lost delights of &lt;ref&gt;Shipwreck, p. 106 to 117, 4th Edit.&lt;/ref&gt;Asia's Shore.

{{gap|1em}}Oh! Thou, whose social, thrilling heart could prove
The piercing anguish of Palemon's Love,
Could tend amidst the Wreck his parting groan,
And for his Tale of Grief forget thy own,
Oh! if the Sacred Nine can sooth the Dead,
In Fancy's Realm the paths of Sorrow tread;
From Anna's Charms an Hero's picture take,
And mourn Leander for Palemon's sake.
&lt;/poem&gt;{{center block/e}}

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Compiled Laws of the State of North Dakota 1913 vol I.pdf/13</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>3876824</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTEB → PORTER</comment>
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      <text bytes="1865" sha1="s64dvj0no36xqz3nbzxjtlvqki2rjvw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;EthanRobertLee&quot; /&gt;{{running header||PREFACE TO REVISED CODES OF 1905.|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;repetition is omitted and the scheme of the index is simplified. The &quot;catch
words&quot; also being arranged alphabetically, obviates the necessity of looking
through the entire references made under a main head to find what is desired.
Where citations are made to collateral subjects the section numbers have been
enumerated wherever it has been possible to do so. In some instances, however, the collateral subject referred to embraces so many different sections
in different chapters of the code that it has been found impossible to give, in
the index, the numbers of the sections. These citations enable one to turn
immediately to the sections in the code comprising the subject matter referred to.

At the end of each section is indicated the origin and history of the
provision embraced therein-the former session law, chapter and section,
or code, from which the subject matter was taken or by which it was revised.
Reference is made to revised codes of 1899, except where a section originated
with or was changed by the revision of 1895.

Abbreviations used:&quot; R. C.,&quot; revised codes; &quot; Pol. C.,&quot; political code; &quot; Civ.
C.,&quot; civil code; &quot;C. Civ. P.,&quot; code of civil procedure; Pro. C.,&quot; probate
code; &quot; Jus. C.,&quot; justices' code; &quot;Pen. C.,&quot; penal code; &quot;C. Cr. P.,&quot; code of criminal procedure.

Under the provisions of the law authorizing this codification, after proclamation by the governor, the revised codes of 1905 shall be in full force and
effect and be received as evidence of the laws of this state in all courts thereof.
An effort has been made to avoid errors in this codification but inasmuch as
codification only and not revision was authorized, there appear some conflicting provisions which as occasion may demand the courts must construe.

E. F. PORTER,
Secretary of State.
{{page break}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|vii}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Author:Josiah Conder (1852-1920)</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
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      <text bytes="735" sha1="ec72jxkm97uui1n05wd7ow6xe168b61" xml:space="preserve">{{similar|Author:Josiah Conder}}
{{author
 | firstname    = Josiah
 | lastname     = Conder
 | last_initial = Co
 | description  = British architect who was hired by the Meiji Japanese government as a professor of architecture
}}

==Works==
* ''[[The Flowers of Japan and the Art of Floral Arrangement]]'' (1891) {{IA small link|flowersofjapanar00cond}}
** ''[[The Floral Art of Japan]]'' (1899 second edition) {{IA small link|floralartofjapan00conduoft}}
* ''[[Landscape Gardening in Japan]]'' (1893) {{HathiTrust link|001506514}}
* ''[[Paintings and Studies by Kawanabe Kyosai]]'' (1911) {{HathiTrust link|100584898}}
===Works about Conder===
*{{Who's Who in the Far East link|Conder, Prof. Josiah}}

{{PD-old}}
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    <title>Page:Oregon Geographic Names, third edition.djvu/127</title>
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ter of fog and Iowa ndio are not unlike Xplorer recorded sible now to determine exactly what features each explorer recorded since in some instances the headlands are not unlike and are near together. The matter of fog and low lying clouds must also be taken into account. For instance it seems incredible that Heceta could so accurately describe the mouth of the Columbia River, then miss Tillamook Head completely and hit upon Cape Falcon.

CAPTAIN Cook POINT, Lincoln and Lane counties. Captain Cook Point is the first prominent point south of Cape Perpetua, and Captain Cook Chasm is a well-known landmark at the end of the point. The Oregon Coast Highway crosses this chasm on a concrete viaduct. These features bear the name of Captain James Cook, R. N., one of the greatest explorers of all time. He sailed along this part of the Oregon coast in 1778, and on March 7 of that year discovered and named Cape Perpetua, just north of Captain Cook Point. James Cook was born in 1728 in Yorkshire, and joining the Royal Navy in 1755, he soon began to demonstrate his talents as a navigator. Before 1776 he had made two very important voyages and, above all, had made remarkable advance in the prevention of scurvy. He sailed from England in 1776 on his third and last voyage, during which he sighted the Oregon coast. After important discoveries in Alaska, he visited the Hawaiian Islands, where he met death at the hands of natives on February 14, 1779. Distinguished honors were paid to him by many countries. The compiler was unable to find that any geographic features had been named for him in continental United States and in 1931 recommended to the USBGN that the name Captain Cook Point be applied to the Oregon promontory. The board adopted the name in October of that year.

CARBERRY CREEK, Jackson County. This stream is formed by Steve and Sturgis forks, and flows into Applegate River. It was for a time also known as Steamboat Creek, but it is now universally known as Carberry Creek, in memory of an early resident of that section. It was called Carberry Creek in pioneer mining days, and that name seems to have antedated the form Steamboat Creek. See OHQ, volume XXIII, page 154.

CARCUS CREEK, Columbia County. Carcus Creek, west of Apiary, flows north into Clatskanie River. In 1941 Sinclair Wilson of Portland, who knows much of the early history of the county, told the compiler that many years ago this stream was called Carcass Creek because a local resident found a dead horse on its banks. However, the formal style of spelling soon gave way to the form now universally used throughout the county. Efforts to adopt the original spelling have been unavailing, and the name Carcus Creek seems to be here to stay. Carico, Columbia County. Carico was a post office in the woods about six miles west of Deer Island, but the place did not develop into a community: The office was established December 4, 1889, with Mrs. Lydia Pinckney first postmaster. Her husband, Nelson Pinckney, became postmaster on March 25, 1904, and the office was closed to Deer Island on May 15, 1913. In June, 1947, Mrs. Nellie C. Buss of Saint Helens, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Pinckney, told the compiler that the office was named for one John Carico who had squatted on a claim in the locality prior to the arrival of the Pinckneys. John Carico moved away many years ago and the compiler knows nothing of his history.

CARLL, Douglas County, Carll was a post office on the upper reaches of Cow Creek, named for a local family. This office served the area later&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{hwe|impossible|sible}} now to determine exactly what features each explorer recorded since in some instances the headlands are not unlike and are near together. The matter of fog and low lying clouds must also be taken into account. For instance it seems incredible that Heceta could so accurately describe the mouth of the Columbia River, then miss Tillamook Head completely and hit upon Cape Falcon.

CAPTAIN Cook POINT, Lincoln and Lane counties. Captain Cook Point is the first prominent point south of Cape Perpetua, and Captain Cook Chasm is a well-known landmark at the end of the point. The Oregon Coast Highway crosses this chasm on a concrete viaduct. These features bear the name of Captain James Cook, R. N., one of the greatest explorers of all time. He sailed along this part of the Oregon coast in 1778, and on March 7 of that year discovered and named Cape Perpetua, just north of Captain Cook Point. James Cook was born in 1728 in Yorkshire, and joining the Royal Navy in 1755, he soon began to demonstrate his talents as a navigator. Before 1776 he had made two very important voyages and, above all, had made remarkable advance in the prevention of scurvy. He sailed from England in 1776 on his third and last voyage, during which he sighted the Oregon coast. After important discoveries in Alaska, he visited the Hawaiian Islands, where he met death at the hands of natives on February 14, 1779. Distinguished honors were paid to him by many countries. The compiler was unable to find that any geographic features had been named for him in continental United States and in 1931 recommended to the USBGN that the name Captain Cook Point be applied to the Oregon promontory. The board adopted the name in October of that year.

CARBERRY CREEK, Jackson County. This stream is formed by Steve and Sturgis forks, and flows into Applegate River. It was for a time also known as Steamboat Creek, but it is now universally known as Carberry Creek, in memory of an early resident of that section. It was called Carberry Creek in pioneer mining days, and that name seems to have antedated the form Steamboat Creek. See OHQ, volume XXIII, page 154.

CARCUS CREEK, Columbia County. Carcus Creek, west of Apiary, flows north into Clatskanie River. In 1941 Sinclair Wilson of Portland, who knows much of the early history of the county, told the compiler that many years ago this stream was called Carcass Creek because a local resident found a dead horse on its banks. However, the formal style of spelling soon gave way to the form now universally used throughout the county. Efforts to adopt the original spelling have been unavailing, and the name Carcus Creek seems to be here to stay. Carico, Columbia County. Carico was a post office in the woods about six miles west of Deer Island, but the place did not develop into a community: The office was established December 4, 1889, with Mrs. Lydia Pinckney first postmaster. Her husband, Nelson Pinckney, became postmaster on March 25, 1904, and the office was closed to Deer Island on May 15, 1913. In June, 1947, Mrs. Nellie C. Buss of Saint Helens, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Pinckney, told the compiler that the office was named for one John Carico who had squatted on a claim in the locality prior to the arrival of the Pinckneys. John Carico moved away many years ago and the compiler knows nothing of his history.

CARLL, Douglas County, Carll was a post office on the upper reaches of Cow Creek, named for a local family. This office served the area later&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Adventure (magazine)/Volume 39/Number 1/The King's Choice</title>
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      <text bytes="120893" sha1="cbcfczjazbw9n35q52y2f4zaq47rkkc" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = The King's Choice
 | author     = Arthur Gilchrist Brodeur 
 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1923
 | edition    = yes
 | notes      =  Extracted from ''Adventure'' magazine, 1923 Feb 10, pp. 130–157.  

''Medieval France—a courier's jeopardy''
}} {{DEFAULTSORT: King’s Choice}}

{{dhr|3}}
{{bc|max-width=500px|style=font-weight:bold|{{fs|350%|THE KING’S CHOICE}}
{{right|{{larger|A complete Novelette}}}}}}
[[file:P 130--Adventure mag 1923-02-10.png|600px|frameless|center]]

{{c|''by''{{em}} {{larger|[[author:Arthur Gilchrist Brodeur|'''Arthur Gilchrist Brodeur''']] }}}}

{{c|{{fine|''Author of “For the Crown,” “With Song and Sword,” etc.''}}}}


{{fqm|“}}{{di|T|5.25em}}HEY follow!” 

Cercamon reined in on the crest of a low hill and gazed back over the road that paralleled the blue Loire across the plain, like a white stripe and a blue one across a richly broidered garment. 

“All the way from the town have they followed me!” he muttered. “But the hunter that shows himself to his quarry has little chance of a kill.” 

And he waved a scornful hand at the distant figures in gleaming mail, who had kept ever at his heels since dawn, without once gaining on him, without once losing sight of him. 

Till now he had not been sure it was he they sought. It was no rare thing for armed men to take the high road from Tours to Paris. The riders of Anjou, who held Touraine for Duke Geoffrey le Bel, patroled it ceaselessly; merchants or pilgrims with their escorts, or men-at-arms seeking service, traveled that road often. 

But Cercamon had reason to be wary of mailed men; and after leaving the Loire and the distant spires of Tours behind him he had become troubled. He had first caught sight of those riders at sunrise, half an hour after he had ridden out from the gate of the city. Their constant trailing at his heels fretted him more and more, till he resolved to test their purpose. Therefore, an hour ago, he had turned aside from the highway, down a little-used road lined with trees, where armed men could have no honest business. 

If they kept to the main road, well and good; but if they turned off after him, he would know they sought but a favorable chance to overtake and assail him. And so, when he trotted out of the byway on to the high road again, having seen the shimmer of their mail thrice behind him, he was sure. And now he could glimpse the sunlight flashing full and bright on their harness as they rode out of the byway on his trail. 

The certainty that he was pursued did not astonish him. Cercamon rode on a weighty errand, one fraught with vast significance for all of France. On his success hung the issues of peace or war between great princes, the fortunes of rival houses, perhaps the fate of two kingdoms. 

It was early April of 1137, that year so fateful for the young realm of France. The Abbot Suger, ruling in the name of the boy King Louis VII, was soon to hand over his authority to his royal ward. It was, a dangerous burden for so fiery and untrained a lad, for the kingdom of France was but a little triangle with Paris, Sens, and Orleans for its corners, claiming a shadowy and perilous sovereignty over the mighty principalities that surrounded it on all sides. 

Of all those principalities the mightiest was Aquitaine, its vast area rolling from Loire to Pyrenees, from the Gascon Gulf to the borders of Toulouse. Hated by his neighbors, feared by the Regent Suger, Duke Guiihem X of Aquitaine had just gone to an unmourned grave. Only the iron hand of his great seneschal, Bertrand d'Armagnac, warded the rich lands and the beautiful young daughter Guiihem had left from the greedy hands of rival barons. 

“These letters to the Abbot Suger!” Armagnac had commanded, “Let them not go from your hands till they pass into his in Paris. And ride warily, Cercamon; keep your eyes open and your hand on your sword, for I fear your errand is known to our enemies. My late lord the duke was not discreet in this matter, and his court has swarmed with the spies of Champagne.” 

“Why send me, my lord?” Cercamon had asked his master. “I am both too humble a man and too weak for such an errand.” 

“Any messenger will be exposed to attack as soon as he leaves Poitou and our garrisons behind him,” Armagnac had answered. “If we send a strong force, it will be ambushed by a stronger. Touraine belongs to Anjou; and Anjou loves us little. The road lies too near the borders of Blois to be safe, even for a small army; for Thibault of Champagne has a strong garrison in Blois. A single man has more chance of slipping through than a troop; and of all men you are our best hope. You are brave, cunning, resourceful; you are a troubadour, and even the most lawless man in France scarce dares lay a hand on the sacred person of a {{Wikt|troubadour}}. Castel-Roussillon's fate is fresh in men's memories; even kings fear to commit his crime, lest they perish as he perished.” 

So Cercamon rode northeast, leaving Poitiers in the dead of night and bearing to the mighty Abbot Suger a proposal, signed by Aliénor, Duchess of Aquitaine, for a royal marriage between herself and the young King Louis. Even as the troubadour left the dark walls behind him, two scarce dead figures dangled from the walls of Poitiers' northern tower—Champenois merchants, who had been caught that afternoon in unlawful conversation with the guard at the North Gate. In their lodgings had been found parchments which—skilfully decoded by the duchess' secretary—had been discovered to contain a full report of the task entrusted to Cercamon. 

The young troubadour—a Gascon, of low birth and rare genius—had been in Armagnac's service barely a year. In Poitiers he had first sung before a courtly audience, and now his name was known over all France for the sweetness of his song and the rich perfection of his verses. In Aquitaine he had equal repute as a swordsman, and Bertrand d'Armagnac, whom he served with deep devotion, knew him for as shrewd and cool a head as any in the south. Lie was well equipped even for so great a task as that which now rested on his broad shoulders. 

He rode now, as always, in the rich garments of his calling; for if the sacredness of that vocation were to save him from attack, he must appear at first glance for what he was. But he wore his long, double-edged sword, and under his scarlet tunic he bore a shirt of fine-meshed, impenetrable Moorish mail. His long, black hair floated unbound beneath a flat cap of blue velvet, and his green-hosed legs clasped the sides of the swiftest horse in the stables of Poitiers. 

He felt assured that Count Thibault of Champagne would seek to stop him, regardless of the inviolability which surrounded one of his calling. Thibault was a hard-handed, hard-headed tyrant, who feared not men's judgments. And Thibault was most ambitious of all the French barons; he hated Aquitaine and—he had a daughter of marriageable age. The dead Duke Guilhem was not the only feudal prince in the realm who stood to profit from a marriage between his daughter and the young king. The troubadour was not yet so highly honored in the north as in the south, and if men of birth feared to assail him there were rough-handed spearmen who would undertake the task for protection and a price. 

As he rode down the hill from which he had spied back upon his pursuers, Cercamon felt small fear of them. So far they had been well able to keep him in sight, for he had carefully spared his horse's strength. Whenever he chose he could leave them far behind. But he did fear lest other enemies might lurk in ambush ahead of him, for he knew Count Thibault's repute for remorseless determination and was certain that the Champenois would not pin his sole hope of heading off the Aquitanian messenger to the questionable chance of overtaking a well-mounted man from behind. 

Moreover, cunning had shown itself in the first moment of the pursuit. Cercamon had not been followed until he had left Poitou; his followers had first shown themselves after he had ridden out from Tours. He had had no chance but to pass through Tours, above which there were no fords across the Loire till one came to Blois. And Blois, Thibault's strongest fortalice, lay but a day's ride from Tours. 

Cercamon had planned to ride north in a wide circuit around Blois, lest he be seen from its walls. But the very fact that pursuit started from Tours proved that his enemies understood his intentions. It also proved that some of Thibault's spies had left Poitiers and arrived in Tours before him and watched for the precise moment of his setting forth along the river road. And in that case it was probable that the spies had ridden on ahead of him, to warn Thibault of his coming. 

There would be ambush ahead as well as pursuers behind. And that ambush would doubtless be laid, not on the highroad near Blois, but on the northerly roads by which he planned to make his circuit. 


{{di|T}}HE afternoon was half-gone when Cercamon heard a swiftly rising drum of hoofs behind him. The pursuit was drawing suddenly closer; plainly they were ready to close in and settle the matter. Smiling, he reined in and counted them. Twelve men, mailed from top to toe, on good horses. He pricked his beast with the spur, and the splendid animal shot forward like an arrow. 

The pursuit was sharp for a while; but at last he drew so far ahead of them that they seemed to realize the hopelessness of riding him down, and checked their pace. Cercamon followed their example. Two or three times this was repeated, at intervals. Then Cercamon began to understand. 

That handful of men-at-arms that tagged his heels had no expectation of catching him, with his swifter horse and lighter weight, for he was almost unencumbered by armor. Their task was to make him uneasy, to keep him in sight, keep him galloping. So long as their eyes could follow him, he dared not stop for food or sleep; and their sporadic spurts compelled him to wear down his mount with bursts of speed. 

When his fleet roan was weary, and he himself grown desperate and careless with hunger and fatigue, they would have done their work. Somewhere ahead lay other riders, possibly hidden, who would either cut him off or take up the chase with fresh horses, when his own was no longer capable of its glorious swiftness. 

There was only one way to defeat this stratagem, and Cercamon resolved to take it. On the chance that the road ahead concealed an ambush, he must leave that road—before it grew dark. If he would escape the pursuit behind, he must outdistance them now, must leave them so far behind that they could not gain sight or trace of him again. Once out of touch with him, they could not signal their relays to take up the pursuit; and he rejoiced that he had spared his horse's strength. He thrust home the spurs, and felt the long-limbed roan burst into beautiful speed beneath him. 

The sun was sinking now and dusk filtering into the cool air. Cercamon knew the country well; the river lay still to the right, but to the left there was a network of roads leading off into the rich plain. At one of these—but not the first—he would turn off; and he would not return to the highway till he was well past Blois. Out of sight behind him, the hunters would not know which way he had taken. 

It was at the third road he turned, to the north; and by that time the highway lay empty for so far behind him as he could see or hear. Slackening his pace, he let the horse idle for a few moments and shifted about on the saddle to ease his limbs. He was well-concealed from the main road by clumps of willow, behind which a little stream sang in the gathering darkness. He smiled at the thought that he had con founded his enemies. That his journey was still beset with peril he did not doubt; but he would find an escape from each difficulty as he met it. 

The roan nickered at the smell of water, and he let it drink from the brook. The night drew in soft and dark about him. In the shelter of the trees that grew ever thicker on both sides the road was black as a tomb. He was now riding through a wood; the air was damp, and the earth so soft under his horse's hoofs that they made no sound. For perhaps an hour he rode on, till he came to a bridle-path and paused to think. 

That path led to a monastery of Cistercians, La Ferté-en-Bois, which lay on the edge of the forest, with its own fat fields spreading north and west of low, wide stone buildings. There he could find food, a refuge from his pursuers and rest—of all of which he stood in dire need. Most of all his horse needed rest. The monks would give him sanctuary, and none would dare assail him within their walls. 

But—if his foes should learn that he was there, they would camp before it till he was forced to surrender. And to spend the night there would give them time to quarter the country for him or to cut him off from every road leading toward Paris. With a pang of regret he resolved to ride on all night, and in a little while he trotted past the few faint fights of the cloister, thinking ruefully of the good food and peaceful harborage within. 

Half an hour more passed, a mere morsel bitten out of the long night through which he must ride, on and on, till dawn should find him close to the walls of Orleans—a royal city, far beyond Blois, and a haven where the king's law would protect him. But there were hours of the saddle, hours of ceaseless vigilance, before he could reach the city nestled in the clasp of the Loire. 

A thin, clear sound tinkled through the night. A moment he listened; then he pulled in the weary roan. From far down the road to the north—in his very path—came the faint jingle of mail, and under it the staccato pound of many hoofs. It was far ahead, but he was out in the open now—between him and those unseen lay no hiding-place, no shred of cover, only the great, flat plain with its young gardens and new crops. 

The troop ahead must be hostile, for he was now within the very heart of that country over which Thibault of Champagne ruled from his eyrie of Blois. He must ride back and shelter either in the monastery or in the wood; else they who rode toward him would overwhelm him. The dozen that followed he had put off the scent. 

He swung about, and the brave roan burst into a gallant spurt, which for a little seemed to have all the swiftness of fresh strength. And that little was just enough. For, as he glimpsed the first lights of the monastery again, his ears caught the drum of hoofs from the south, riding down the very bridle-path by which he had come so short a time before. 

He had not thrown them off the scent after all—they had picked the very spot where they would force him from the highway; their occasional spurts had been so timed as to drive him either to take shelter with the monks or to ride straight into the ambush laid for him just past the cloister. 

They had outguessed him, outmaneuvered him, driven him to earth as dogs drive a fox! And there was but one thing he could do—take to earth in the refuge they had chosen for him, out of which they could dig him at their leisure. 

Having no choice, he took the one course open; it would at least give him a little time, since his foes would not dare drag him from a house of God. He turned into the road that led to the wide stone portal of La Ferté, with the tumult of pursuit so close that, but for their own noise, those who had followed all day must have heard him. 

His knock roused the porter, an old gray monk yawning with sleep, and he was admitted instantly, though with a frown at his gay garb. Only the clergy scowled at troubadours. His horse was led to the stables, but he would not have it unsaddled. 

“But you are weary, and your beast near exhaustion!” the hospitable porter protested. 

“The abbot!” Cercamon interrupted. “For Heaven's sweet grace, I must speak with your abbot at once! There are enemies on my heels!” 

The startled monk crossed himself with trembling fingers and broke into a hobbling run. As fast as his stiff legs would carry him he hastened down the corridor, into the cloistered court and to the abbot's cell. In an agony of impatience Cercamon waited, imagining his two-fold foe surrounding the {{SIC|monstery|monastery}} while he bided the coming of the father superior. But it was scarce three minutes before the abbot's tall, emaciated form appeared in the doorway. 

He was a commanding old man, in gray gown and black apron, with features sharp with fasting and eyes that glowed with the indomitable spirit of Christ's warrior. 

Cercamon fell on one knee and drew from his bosom the letter sealed with the great seal of Aquitaine. 

“My father,” he began anxiously, “I am ambassador from the Duchess of Aquitaine to his holiness the Abbot Suger, Regent of France. Armed men, unrighteously violating the peace of this province, seek to intercept me and seize my despatches. It matters little what becomes of me, but it will be ill for France and for the Church if these letters do not reach the regent. I pray you, help me!” 

The abbot took the letter from Cercamon's hand, examined the seal and read the superscription. 

“It were ill indeed,” he commented, “if messages of weight for the noble Suger fell into the hands of evil men. But how am I to know that such an event would injure Holy Church and not rather your mistress, the Duchess of Aquitaine, alone?” 

So eager was the troubadour to insure the safety of his despatches that he resolved to entrust their secret to the monk, knowing well that a man of his calling and sanctity would not betray them. 

“Because, holy father,” he answered, “this letter concerns a marriage between the duchess and the King of France; and Thibault of Champagne, wishing to arrange a marriage between the young prince and his daughter, desires to prevent Aquitaine's offer from reaching the regent's ears. Your holiness knows how disastrous for the Cistercian order would be an alliance between Champagne and the Crown. Your houses are all within Thibault's territories; he would levy a heavy tax on every monastery to raise the dowry which the king would demand, and your pious order would be shaken to its foundations by the demand on its resources.” 

The abbot eyed him sternly. 

“The Count of Champagne has always been our order's benefactor,” he retorted. “This very house is within his territory. And your late duke, Guilhem X, was a heretic and an enemy of the true faith!” 

Cercamon was prepared for this. 

“The late Duke Guilhem reconciled himself with the Church, and under the guidance of your order's pillar, the holy Bernard, renounced his heresy. He died in the odor of sanctity, on a pilgrimage to Compostella. Your holiness surely would not take the responsibility for preventing a letter of greatest weight to the State from reaching Abbot Suger, the truest friend in France to both Church and throne?” 

This shot told. Grateful as all Cistercians were to Thibault of Champagne for lands and money, they were even more devoted to the Crown. No pious churchman would suppress a letter to the regent, whose holiness and incorruptibility made him the Church's shield against the barons. 

“What shall I do to help you?” the Abbot asked. 

“Send this letter, by a safe hand, to the regent!” Cercamon answered. “A monk of your order—which has never meddled with the rivalries of princes—can pass unmolested even through embattled camps. But send the bearer secretly, by night, so that those who follow me shall not see him. And further, I pray you send a message to my master also, the Count of Armagnac, who is now in Poitiers. Tell him that I have been pursued, perhaps seized; and that his letters have gone on to Abbot Suger by one of the monks under your rule.” 

“It were well,” the abbot reflected, “for the messengers to depart at once.” 

But this was not what Cercamon desired. 

“They who lie in wait for me,” he objected, “are even now close to your walls, whose thickness alone has prevented the clatter of their mail from reaching your ears. It were well to wait till they have passed, 

His words were smothered in a sudden shout from the darkness without, by the thunder of hoofs and a challenging cry. 


{{fqm|“}}{{di|T}}HEY are here!” Cercamon gasped, clutching the wide sleeve of the abbot's gown. “They expected to seize me before this, but I eluded them. Now those who followed me have met with the troop which lurked ahead. They drove me to take shelter here, and will demand me at{{bar|2}}” 

A lance-butt thundered on the door. Seizing the troubadour's shoulder, the abbot dragged him off into the darkness of the cloistered court. 

“We will hide you,” he whispered, “till they have gone!” 

“They will not go!” Cercamon protested. “They know I am here, and need only wait till I am forced to come out. I must surrender to them; do you get my messages through—to the regent, and to Armagnac!” 

The iron-bound door quivered beneath the impact of beating spears. At a sign from the abbot, the trembling porter tottered to the archway, fumbling with his great keys. The iron lock screeched, and the door flew open. Mailed men, their armor gleaming in the faint flare of the porter's rushlight, swarmed into the corridor. 

The abbot came forward from the darkness of the cloister within which Cercamon still stood concealed. 

“What seek ye, men of violence?” he upbraided them. “This is God's house!” 

A thick-set officer thrust himself forward from the knot of men-at-arms, concealing his uneasiness under a swagger. 

“We be king's men!” he answered. “We seek a strolling {{Wikt|jongleur}}, who bears treasonable letters! Deliver him to us, or it will go ill with your house!” 

The abbot raised his wooden crucifix, which dangled from a long chain of carven beads. 

“It is rather you who are traitors!” he rebuked them. “If ye were honest soldiers of France, ye would bear its colors, instead of prowling through the night with no device upon your breasts, like thieves and outlaws. And if ye disturb this house, I will cast upon you the Church's ban, the curse of the unextinguishable flame and the worm that is not appeased! Go hence, and respect Christ's altar!” 

The officer flinched. Bloody and ruthless as the times were, few men were so bold as to defy excommunication, with its threat of eternal torture. But, frightened to the core of his superstitious soul, he still clung to his purpose. His men were less daring; they crowded together as if seeking courage from contact with one another, and their eyes were downcast. 

“It matters not to you whether we ride with or without badge of service,” the officer resumed doggedly, “whether we be king's men or outlaws. Yet I spoke in haste, and will not molest your roof. But we demand the body of him who we know has taken refuge here; and if you refuse him to us, we will quarter ourselves upon you till ye surrender him!” 

This was a threat that would be fulfilled; and both the abbot and the listening Cercamon knew it. Once the unruly soldiers had free run of the monastery, Cercamon could not {{SIC|excape}}, nor could the monks who bore his messages pass through their lines. Therefore the troubadour, who had already formed his decision, advanced from his shelter into the dimly lighted corridor. So swift was his approach that the officer started back at sight of him. But straight way every soldier laid hand on sword, and the mass of them moved forward to seize their prisoner. 

Cercamon raised both hands as a sign that he meditated no resistance. His fingers itched for his sword-hilt, and he knew his skill with his weapon was great enough to take more than one or two with him into darkness. But his deeply religious soul shrank from bloodshed in a holy place. 

“I can not escape,” he said bluntly, “therefore I yield. But beware how ye lay hands on me, for I am a troubadour, whose blood not even kings dare shed!” 

The soldiers, straining like hounds in leash, looked to their leader. Smiling his satisfaction, the officer answered: 

“You have chosen wisely and saved us much mischief. Our orders are to take you, not to harm you, and we are glad indeed not to have your blood on our hands. To him, lads!” 

The next instant Cercamon was seized, spun about, disarmed, pawed over by a dozen hands. His cloak, tunic, mail shirt, undertunic and hose were stripped from him, till he stood mother-naked between the jubilant troopers and the indignant abbot. 

“Ha!” cried the officer, who had been rummaging through his captive's garments. “The clever fox thought to hide his booty, but a cunning old hound smelled it out!” 

And he waved in one hand a folded and creased parchment, which he had rifled from Cercamon's hose. This parchment was an exact duplicate of the letter which Cercamon had given the abbot and which he had kept hidden between hose and foot-sole. An expression of consternation flitted over the abbot's face; but Cercamon turned his head ever so slightly and made a grimace of reassurance. Then he let his eyes meet the officer's, and his face was the picture of utter dismay. At sight of his long visage the soldiers burst into mocking laughter. 

“We have what we came for, lads!” the leader exulted. “Truss him up now, and be swift!” 

In a few moments Cercamon was clothed again—the rough hands of the spearmen forcing his garments on in utmost disorder—his hands were bound behind his back, he was gagged and his head muffled in a bag whose meshes were just coarse enough to let him breathe, but shut out the fight. Two stalwart troopers dragged him to the door, flung him out, lifted him up into a saddle and lashed his feet fast under a horse's belly. 

It was not his own horse; but he soon realized that his beloved roan had not been left in the cloister stables. The commander of the troop was on its back, as his loud oaths of satisfaction proclaimed. Cercamon would have gritted his teeth if the gag had permitted, for the beast was the apple of his eye. 


{{di|A}} COMMAND rang out; the horses began to move, and fourscore hoofs pounded away into the fresh spring night. His senses darkened more by the bag over his face than by the darkness, Cercamon knew not which direction they took. He only knew that he was in the rearmost rank and that his beast trotted with the often broken gait of the led horse. Yet his wits told him that he rode toward Blois and the dungeons of Count Thibault of Champagne. 

The pace was swift, for his captors were anxious to have the business done with. Cercamon knew that the reason they did not wear their master's colors was that Thibault hoped to conceal from public knowledge his double crime—interference with an embassy to the Regent, and violation of the sacred person of a troubadour. If it should be discovered, he would have both the Regent and the troops of Aquitaine to reckon with; and his assault on a troubadour would set France—the south at least—on fire against him. 

He played a desperate game, and Cercamon gave him ungrudging admiration for the skill with which he had played it. Thibault's men had plainly been carefully instructed not to hunt down their quarry on the soil of Touraine—which would have meant a quarrel with Anjou—but to chase him into the territory of Blois and lure him into the monastery of La Ferté. 

The monks, who depended for protection on Thibault, might be presumed to say nothing. But to be sure that they said nothing Thibault's men gave themselves out as royal troops and wore no device. 

And if they met others on the road, the fact that they wore no device would prevent their deed from being imputed to Thibault. Once their prisoner was safe in Blois, Thibault could deny all knowledge of his existence, and no one would dare accuse him without proof. To the eye these troopers were no man's men, probably marauders. To the casual glance—and nothing else was possible in the dark—Cercamon, whose face was hidden and over whose gay garments a coarse fustian robe had been lashed, was a mere captive about whose fate no one cared. 

The troop had ridden perhaps an hour when Cercamon was aware of a faint red glow through the meshes of the bag and of a ringing challenge in a broad, thick-tongued French. With a shout of joy the troop answered it as one man. Weapons clattered, horses neighed, voices talked back and forth. The red glow grew till Cercamon could catch the shine of metal against it when he faced it directly. It was a huge fire high above the ground, a watch-fire on one of those squat, outlying towers that are the vedettes of fortified cities. 

The voices died down, the troop rode on, the glow faded. On and on they trotted. The dawn breeze was in the air, and cocks crowing, when again the riders reined in, new challenges floated clear from some far height. The hoarse voice of the captain answered. There was a loud laugh from that height whence the challenge had rung; a horrible screech of iron rent the air. 

Then, moving forward at a walk up a steep slope, the cavalcade advanced across a wooden bridge that rang hollow under their hoofs. The fresh air was shut out by thick walls; again the screech of. metal announced the raising of the drawbridge they had just crossed. Fingers fumbled at Cercamon's neck, the coarse bag slid across his features, the fight rushed in upon his dazzled eyes. 

It was only the half-light of a great archway at early morning, but after his double darkness he felt it strike him like a whiplash across the eyes. It was some moments before his sight adjusted itself, and then he saw that the archway was the main gate of a large castle, whose outer bailey opened directly off the gate. 

The wall was a good eighteen feet thick of squared masonry, and in the center of the court beyond he saw the massive base of a square tower, with rectangular turrets jutting out from each comer. Then the ropes that bound his feet were cut, he was dragged from his horse and fell, saddle-worn and unable to stand, in a heap on the flagstones. 

A knot of men-at-arms surrounded him, some wearing no badges—and these were the men who had brought him—others flaunting the arms of Champagne. One fell to chafing the prisoner's ankles, till the blood began to sting unbearably in his constricted veins. After a time they raised him, and forced him to walk up and down, all the while railing at him. When he could keep his feet without help, a soldier grasped him by the shoulder and led him across the court toward the tower. 

It was chilly in the court, for the sun had not yet risen above the crenellated walls. In the wooden stalls built around two sides of the bailey, horses nickered, smelling the hay being borne to them by bare-armed grooms. Red-cheeked maid-servants chattered and laughed about the well or swung lithely away with buckets balanced on their heads. A smell of cooking drifted from the soldiers' quarters. An unseen cow lowed, and chickens cackled. On the battlements a soldier sang. 

Exhausted, Cercamon stumbled to the inner portal, the entrance to the tower or keep. The iron-bound door of massive oak was flung open, and his guide shoved him roughly into a guard-room, bare, bleak, lighted only by two high arrow-slits in the walls. A dozen men-at-arms in unbraced tunics were washing the sleep from their eyes or yawning as they waited their turn at the tub of well-water that stood on a crude bench. 

Their beds—mere mats of straw laid over other benches—lay along two walls; beside the door stood a chest of arms, with a recruit squatting by it burnishing the mail of his older comrades. A pointed archway in the rear wall led to an inner room, which Cercamon guessed to be the great hall, with its long tables and its stairway leading to the upper stories. 

But he was not to enter that room yet. His guide's hand impelled him to a dark opening that yawned, without railing, in the guard-room floor. A shout of laughter rang from the lolling men-at-arms. 

“Another bird for the cage, eh, Simon?” one cried, and the soldier nodded. 

“There is room, I trust?” he asked with assumed solicitude. “This bird is of fine plumage, as ye see, and his feathers must not be ruffled.” Grinning, he dragged Cercamon down a dark stair into a musty vault that reeked with damp and bad air. 

A murky torch advanced from the blackness to meet them, and metal clinked dully. He who bore the light was a squat, thick-set fellow in stained leather, with a bunch of keys dangling from his belt and a short, broad sword by his side. 

“Look to him well,” the soldier cautioned. “If he escapes, the old Bear will set up a new gallows on the wall. Thou hast not smelt fresh air for so long that it would choke thee—especially from a rope's end.” 

And he sprang up the stairs, leaving Cercamon to the warder's care. 

The latter led the troubadour to a row of cells in the solid wall of the keep. A key whined in a rusty lock; a heavy door grated open, and he was thrust within. The warder's hand guided him to a corner; strong fingers clutched his ankles and locked them in massy fetters. 

“You will be fed in an hour,” the warder muttered, and disappeared. 

The door clanged shut after him, and the key turned in the lock. 

Though he was desperately hungry, panting for drink, and sore in every bone, Cercamon grinned to himself in the blackness of his cell. He had reason to grin; for he had tricked the men who had tricked him, outwitted those who had made him prisoner. When he surrendered himself at the monastery, and his hose had been despoiled of the letter he had hidden, he had pretended consternation. But the captured letter had gone far to insure the success of his mission. 


{{sc|I}}T HAD been at Cercamon's request that the Duchess Aliénor had let her clerk draw up two copies of the despatches to Suger and had signed both with her seal. If he had borne but one, and that one had not been found on his person, his captors would have searched every man and every corner in the monastery. But having found one copy on him, in a hiding-place which looked to have been chosen with a view to keeping it secret, Thibault's troopers had assumed that they had found that which they sought. 

With these papers in his hands and their bearer safely under lock and key, the Count of Champagne would have no idea that the message, borne by a monk, was already on its way to Paris. Provided he were set free before prison broke his strength, Cercamon cared not how long he might lie in Thibault's cells. He cared only for the success of his mission; and he had already seen to that. 

Nor did he fear greatly for his own life or comfort. He was a troubadour, known throughout France as its finest singer. What baron of that song-loving nation would let such a voice molder in his dungeons? 

Cercamon's thoughts were so merry that he scarce heeded how time passed, till the great door screeched again and the warder's torch flared in its opening. 

“Food!” the keeper muttered and, shoving a plate and a stone bottle within reach of his prisoner's corner, he stepped behind him. 

The next moment Cercamon felt a steel point prick the base of his neck and understood that he was to sit motionless while the warder cut the bonds from his hands. He did so and soon was able to move his arms. With a nimble backward spring the jailer leaped out of his reach and slammed the door. But he need not have feared, for the prisoner's arms were still numb from their lashings. 

When they pricked and tingled with new life, Cercamon examined his breakfast, a loaf of bread and a crock of water. The water was stale, the bread moldy. 

“Pah!” he cried, and flung the food from him. 

The blithe mood left him all at once, for he had not eaten in six-and-twenty hours, and the disappointment sickened him. He sat motionless, gritting his teeth. 

In this attitude he was found when, about noon, the door opened again; but this time it was not the jailer who entered. It was a brace of spearmen with brightly glowing torches that lighted up the bare, damp cell, with the water trickling down its walls, the rotten straw on its stone floor and the disheveled prisoner with his despondent face and fettered ankles. 

After the men-at-arms entered a big-boned man in middle age, clad in black velvet hose and tight-fitting tunic. The torchlight fell on his rugged, square face, florid with good living and scarred with battle, on a short, curling white beard and on the rich golden embroidery of his black surcoat. With obvious intent he stood so that the light illumined the golden device—the coronetted arms of Champagne, quartered with those of Blois. 

Though he had never seen the man before, Cercamon knew him from his dress, his fierce, majestic features and the arrogance of his carriage. This was indeed Thibault of Champagne, the greatest baron of the North. Brother to King Stephen of England, he now cherished the ambition to become father-in-law to the King of France and so to make himself the mightiest uncrowned prince in Europe. 

For a long time the two eyed each other in silence, and it was Cercamon who spoke first. 

“Your grace will forgive me that I do not rise,” he said, with courtesy so deep as almost to be insulting. “I am prevented by these adornments with which your grace had honored my legs.” 

And he pointed to his chains. 

Count Thibault laughed, a rolling, good-natured laugh which thundered back from the stone vaulting of the dungeon. 

“One sees that you are indeed Cercamon the Troubadour!” he answered. 

His eyes examined his captive, noting the mighty shoulders, the unnaturally long arms, whose sinews showed through his rumpled, tight-fitting sleeves, and the handsome face with its blue-green eyes, that glowed like coals in the torchlight. 

“I am sorry,” the count spoke again, with courtesy to match Cercamon's own, “that my men were forced to handle you so. My spies reported you a perilous man, shrewd of wit and a master with the sword. It would not have been wise to give you an equal chance. Moreover, I had to take you alive and uninjured. It goes ill with him who slays one of your calling.” 

Cercamon nodded. 

“Your grace will do me the justice to admit that I gave little trouble. I did not even draw weapon.” 

Thibault's eyes clouded. 

“So my men reported,” he mused. “It is that which disturbs me. It is unlike your reputation. You are said to be a man who fights for the love of fighting, kills when the odds are even and never gives up a task unfinished. Therefore I suspect that you have not begun to fight me yet.” 

“Perhaps your grace is right,” Cercamon admitted demurely. “But it was not hospitable of you to feed me on foul bread and lodge me in a stinking pit.” 

“That was only that you might the more appreciate the kindness I still hope to show you. But I can not treat like a guest a man who may meditate some dangerous plot against me. It rests with you, troubadour, whether you lie on slimy stone and gnaw foul crusts or sleep in a fair bed and share my table. 

He paused, searching Cercamon's face the while. 

Now Cercamon, confident that his message would go through to Abbot Suger, and being raw with famine and ill treatment, saw no cause for prolonging his own discomfort. He had done all in his power; the rest lay with the regent and Bertrand d'Armagnac. 

“Your conditions?” he asked. 

Thibault smiled. 

“Merely those which I can enforce with or without your consent,” he replied. “You shall have the freedom of my castle and be treated with all honor—if you will but give me your parole of honor.” 

“And that means?” 

“That you will not try to escape, nor communicate to any man those things which have happened to you at my order, nor speak a word of the errand that brought you from Poitiers, until I let you leave my castle.” 

Cercamon reflected a moment, but could not see that these terms could do any harm. Already a monk was on his way to Paris with the all-important despatches, and an other had set out for Poitou to bring word of Cercamon's probable plight to his master. And it was true that, if he refused, Thibault could insure his obedience by keeping him a miserable captive in this noisome cell. He looked up suddenly, grinning. 

“I accept, my lord,” he said, “and I give you my word.” 

“Strike the chains from his limbs!” the Count commanded. “You, Gilles, take him to the north chamber and give him fine garments. You, Watrequin, hie to the servants' offices and bring him good meat and drink! And now, troubadour, remember your promise well—for tonight King Louis of France sups with me!” 


{{di|T}}HE king came at nightfall, his approach heralded by the thunder of galloping hoofs and the sudden swoop of horsemen, who checked their fiery mounts in mid-career, flinging them back on their haunches at the very brink of the moat. Then rang the challenge from the walls and a fanfare of royal trumpets. It was half an hour afterward before the young monarch, with his escort of three hundred spears, rode with slow majesty across the lowered drawbridge. Louis of France loved to be well prepared for and always sent his ''avant-garde'' well ahead, that his welcome might be worthy his acceptance. 

The great gate was open, the drawbridge down. The royal procession rode over splendid carpets from the looms of Arras, between lines of full-mailed men-at-arms. Thibault himself stood in the archway, bareheaded, bowing low. From the battlemented crest of the wall maidens dropped flowers upon the heads of the king and his knights. Beside the count stood his master of the garrison, Raymond de Montivre, armored from top to toe, but with his nasaled helmet in his hand. 

Louis was a tall, slender lad of scarce twenty, with short, dark hair and dark eyes that blazed out of a pale face. His features had not yet assumed that austere reserve which, in later years, grief and misfortune stamped upon them; now, in his fiery youth, he had learned to conceal neither his swift, sensitive emotions nor his overbearing pride. A slight smile curled his thin lips as he acknowledged Thibault's obeisance; it pleased him to see the haughty Count of Champagne humbling himself. And he embraced Thibault with a graciousness born of that pleasure. 

The two, attended by Montivre, crossed the bailey toward the tower, while the king's men rode slowly into the court and gave over their beasts to the bustling grooms who were in despair to find room for so many horses in the castle stables. 

Conducted thus ceremoniously to his chamber on the third floor of the keep, Louis the King was left to the ministrations of the cringing castle servants; and Thibault, with a smile of triumph lighting his florid face, sought out Cercamon in the north turret; Cercamon was washed, fresh-shaven and habited in gay garments of Thibault's furnishing. The count entered without announcing himself. 

“You are mindful of your parole?” he asked. 

“My lord!” Cercamon exclaimed. “They call you the Bear of the North, but there is as much fox as bear in you. Had you told me of the king's coming before you offered me parole, I would never have promised to keep silent before him. But having given my word, I will keep it.” 

Thibault laughed. 

“That is well! Tonight, at supper, you are to sing before the King!” 

The troubadour raised his eyebrows. 

“You can not command song, my lord.” 

Thibault shrugged his shoulders. 

“I can outwit you, but I can not argue with you,” he answered. “I pray you to sing before the king, if that pleases you better.” 

Cercamon bowed. 

“What songs?” he asked. “The north does not know much of our southern poesy. I would not choose verses that the king will not approve.” 

Once more the count laughed. 

“See what an advantage I have, in that I know the king!” he exulted. “When Aquitaine wished to contract a royal marriage, it sent its offer, by a minstrel, to a monk. Truly that monk is Regent of France, but for all that he is a shaveling. If your letters had reached Suger, the king would have been enraged that his marriage should have been arranged over his head. Now I, knowing his pride, his ceaseless chafing against the tutelage of Suger, sent my proposal for a marriage between the king and my daughter to Louis himself—and he is here tonight to see the lass! Ah, you southerners are brave soldiers and rare singers, but ye are no statesmen! 

“Likewise the foremost troubadour of France, being a southerner, has to ask me—a northern soldier—what to sing before the King. Knowing him, I can tell you. He is young, proud, hot-headed. Sing him songs of war and brave deeds—songs of chivalry in arms! Your whining love-ballads will not touch him, nor your dainty ''pastorelles'' of shepherds and shepherdesses. What are peasants, sheep and light-o'-loves to the son of Louis the Strong? Nay, pour out your fiercest notes and sing him of the clash of sword on shield!” 

Cercamon's eyes were flashing, but less with the kindling words of the man who had beaten him than with anger at his own helplessness to strike back. He had given his word to say nothing to the king, either of his own capture or of the Duchess Aliénor's letters. And while he must sit silent, bound by his honor, Thibault would be using every art, every persuasion, to knit up a marriage between his daughter and the king. And to crown all, he, Cercamon, ambassador of Aquitaine, must sing to make them merry—must sing over the funeral of Aquitaine's proud hopes! 

A sudden suspicion crossed the count's cunning mind. 

“Ye troubadours are cunning fellows!” he said. “See to it that your songs contain no suggestion, no single hint, against the spirit of your parole!” 

“My lord!” Cercamon cried proudly. “If we were both on the open plain, my sword would avenge that insult to my honor, baron though you are!” 

The nobleman's rough-hewn face softened into contrition. 

“Your pardon!” he replied. “I had forgotten the courtesy that becomes a host. You will sing for us?” 

“I will,” Cercamon agreed. 

But when he was left alone, he pondered long on Thibault's request, turning it over and over to find what hidden meaning, what cunning scheme, might lie beneath it. 'I can outwit you,' Thibault had said; and so far he was justified in his boast. 

The troubadour had countered his first clever stroke—the ambush—by a cleverer parry, which the count did not yet suspect; but it had been shrewd of Thibault to lure him into that ambush. And Thibault had indeed outwitted him in the matter of his parole. But in this last request Cercamon could see nothing, save that the count wished to put the petulant Louis in a good mood, a mood that would make him more receptive to Thibault's proposals. 

And a great flame of anger swept over Cercamon, that, in spite of all his caution, for all that he could do, the Bear of Champagne had beaten him and made a plaything of him. 

If he could only tell the king all—that he, an ambassador on business of state from Aquitaine to France, had been ambushed by Thibault's men; that Thibault had intercepted, by force, a messenger who came with proposals that concerned the king, and even now sought to inveigle Louis into a pledge of marriage before Aquitaine's proposal could reach the royal ears—if he could only tell Louis this, the proud young prince would flame into righteous indignation, sweep Thibault and all Thibault's designs from his path and avenge a deed that was as much an insult to his royal dignity as to the pride of Aquitaine. 

But cunning Thibault had sealed Cercamon's lips till he should be permitted to leave the castle of Blois. And then it would be too late, for Thibault would not let him go till the marriage between Champagne and the Crown should have been agreed upon. 

But Cercamon was not the man to give all for lost while life still surged through his veins and his shrewd wits yet had some thing to feed on. There was always some way out of every trap, some weak link in every chain. As he pondered, it suddenly came to him that the weak link in Thibault's chain was the proposal that Cercamon, whom Thibault had hindered from fulfilling an errand that concerned the king, should now sing before the King. 

True, he could not weave into his song anything that would violate his promise; but at some future time, Louis would know how Thibault had intrigued to keep the Aquitanian offer from his ears and then the king would remember that Cercamon had sung for him at Blois. Yes, it would be too late then—but something might happen in the mean time, if the monk of La Ferté had safely reached Paris and the regent. 

This was as far as Cercamon could think the situation out, and he gave his mind to the choice of songs he would sing. Shortly after, a white-clad usher came to summon him to supper. 


{{di|H}}E FOUND the bailey bright with torchlight and thronged with officers of the garrison and the knights who had come with the king. The great castle was crowded. Every chamber was filled, and from every turret men were flocking toward the keep. They walked by twos and threes, or in groups, talking animatedly, so that the courtyard rang with the strident hum of their voices. 

Entering the tower, Cercamon followed the throng through the guard-room into the great hall, which occupied three-fourths the space of the first floor. It was a huge, high-ceiled room; its cold stone walls hung with Flemish tapestries that billowed in the draft from the arrow-slits. A score of banners, tattered and bloodstained, hung from the rafters; wood and broidered silk alike were dark with the accumulated smoke of the Winter fires that had risen from the hearth in the south corner; soot lay thick on the finely carven woodwork of the galleries which ran high up along each wall, for the archers posted to serve the arrow-slits. 

Long tables—mere rectangles of deal laid on trestles—were ranged one beyond the other across the hall; one stood high on a daïs at the western end of the apartment, under the crossed standards of Champagne and France. Servants had already covered the bare boards with the finest napery of the province; splendidly molded flagons of silver stood, brimful with the rarest wines, at each table's end. 

The busy sewers and ushers picked their way through the gathering crowd, the former shouting orders to the harassed servants, the latter striving valiantly to direct each guest to his appointed place. Their task was no light one; wo to them if, however many the guests, they failed to seat each in his due order of precedence, taking into account his birth, title and years of service. 

Now Thibault of Champagne had done a bold thing; he had ordered Cercamon assigned to a place at that highest table on the daïs, the master's table, where he himself, his household and the king would sit. In the south the troubadour, as a matter of right, could claim a seat at the master's board; but here in the ruder north, where his art was still new, it was perilous for a low-born man, though he were a troubadour, to mingle on familiar terms with men of gentle blood. 

But both Thibault and the young king knew by repute the fame of Cercamon, and Thibault knew he could keep his own proud vassals in order. 

The great ones were already seated while yet their followers poured in, and as each entered and made obeisance to the daïs king and count bowed acknowledgment. With some trepidation Cercamon took his place at one end of that high table, after his low bow had been returned and the count had signed, to him to sit. 

Thibault himself had given up his own place of honor—in the middle of the western side, overlooking the entire company—to Louis the King. On the king's right was Thibault; on his left, Thibault's daughter, the young Countess Alys. Beyond her sat de Montivre, master of the garrison, and the foremost of the king's and of Thibault's knights filled up the remaining places. 

When all were seated, the servants came down between the tables in solemn procession, each bearing his appointed dish. Peacocks, roasted whole, their feathers carefully replaced as in life, rested on platters of silver; suckling pigs crisp and sleek; rich stews of mutton in deep bowls, spiced with every known delicacy; great mounds of grilled beef in thick slabs—all these followed, in the order of importance assigned them by fashion. The guests were already drinking, as they would all through the meal. 

Accustomed to the refined luxury of the south, Cercamon paid scant attention to all these preparations and less to his wine, sipping only when the king drank, as was proper. All his attention was focused on the girl who sat at Louis' left, through whom her father had destined to unite the fortunes of Champagne with those of France. 

She was a tall young woman, strongly made, yet graceful, perhaps a little older than the king. Her hair was brown, her eyes blue. It would have been flattery to call her beautiful. Yet her gaze was clear, frank and innocent, and both her features and her bearing bore the fine, subtle stamp of goodness. She seemed a little melancholy; though her lips and chin were firm, her smile was wistful. 

“It were a good thing for this young prince,” Cercamon meditated, “and for the peace of France, if Thibault should win his game.” 

For it was plain to any that had seen them both that Alys of Blois surpassed Aliénor of Aquitaine in beauty of soul as much as Aliénor surpassed her in beauty of face and body. In the year past, the troubadour had seen much of his duchess and knew that, far as she stood above other women in loveliness, her heart was filled with pride and cruelty and love of pleasure. 

The company ate like men who had fasted for a week. Well might the king's men do so, for they had ridden far in the Spring air; but there was no moderation in their manners. As they ate, so they drank. Cercamon wondered, as he watched them, that these gourmands and the dainty folk of his own land could both be Frenchmen. 

So fast they reached their fingers into the stew-bowls, so eagerly they grasped the slabs of meat in their sinewy hands, that the servants had scarce time to bring them towels and ewers of water between courses. Each man seized his food firmly in his left hand, hacked at it with his dagger, and carried it to his mouth in his fingers, washing down the mouthfuls with great gulps of wine. Of all that company only Cercamon, with his fine Gascon manners, the countess and the king, ate daintily or moderately; and Louis drank as sparsely as he ate. 

At last the feast was cleared away and the cloths removed, but the flagons, constantly replenished, passed up and down incessantly. Thibault of Champagne rose from his place; a trumpeter behind him blew a blast on a silver horn, and the deep drone of conversation was cut off as by a sword-thrust. The count waved a hand toward Cercamon, who rose and bowed to the king, and with a sardonic smile on his lips, Thibault presented him. 

“Many of you,” he said, “have exchanged blows with our countrymen of Provence or Aquitaine; a few have perchance heard their singers in their own courts. But who of us all has heard the voice of Cercamon? It is a high honor I have prepared for my king.” 


{{sc|C}}ERCAMON felt every eye fasten  upon him; the hot, impatient eye full of a boy's curiosity and a boy's restlessness; the gentle, brooding eyes of Countess Alys; the hard, cynical eyes of Thibault; and the unbroken stare of five hundred war-hardened knights of France. These men, untrained to value the polished verse of his southland and flushed with wine—these men he must please. But more than all he must please King Louis; and it was well for him the king was of finer stuff than his nobles. 

Remembering his captor's advice, he wasted no time on the gentler, finer forms which most delighted the southern courts, but plunged forthwith into one of those fierce, wild-paced war-songs that had come down to his countryfolk from the battles of their grandsires. 

It rang with the clash of sword on shield, the clang of steel, the breathless, thundering rhythm of charging horsemen. So furiously rolled its cadences that, before the company had time to realize, it had come to an end in one fierce, shouted syllable of triumph. 

The warriors of France, leaning far over the tables, looked at the singer with eyes that burned with the passion of conflict; then, as at a signal, all caught their breath together, and all burst into wild shouts of applause: 

''“Ai! Ai! Ohé!”'' 

It was the old battle-shout, the cry of martial spirits when the ranks are joined in the reeling ecstasy of onslaught. With these soldier-nobles the troubadour had triumphed. 

He stole a glance at the king. Louis sat with tight-locked arms, clenched hands and smoldering eyes. 

Now Cercamon had heard, and remembered, a chant of ancient days—a song of Charlemagne and Roland, and the last, lost fight of Roncevaux. It began with slow, measured cadences—the march of the gallant little Frankish army into the black and monstrous pass, a march overhung with the terror of monstrous mountains and with the black clouds of storm and fate. 

Into this chant he swept, the rich tones throbbing like tolling bells; then, changing time and volume, he burst into the full fury of the Saracen attack, his voice ringing like finely tempered steel. As the fortune of battle waned and waxed and waned again, so his tones swelled, diminished and rose to the fullness of tempest; at last to die down to a deep, soft death-march, filled with the passion of mourning. Roland was dead, and Oliver, the glory of France, departed. 

When he had done, the silence was long and profound; yet in that silence was a tribute greater than the clamor of shouting throats or beating hands. The spell broken at last, there came from somewhere in the hall the sound of a man sobbing; and between the sobs came broken cries: 

“The dogs of Saracens! The murdering hounds! Wo, wo over the traitor Ganelon!” 

The pent-up emotion of the company burst forth in a mighty peal of laughter. The naïve, half-drunken warrior who had spoken turned suddenly on his table-mates, fierce-eyed; then, as his glance fell on a wine flagon, it blurred again. He reached for the drink with shaking fingers. 

The young king seized Cercamon's hand. 

“Sung like a man and a soldier!” he cried. “But you, who are of the south, have sung us nothing that is the south's own—nothing that we also have not. I have heard often of the well-turned verses made in Aquitaine—them I would hear!” 

For a moment the troubadour was strongly minded to sing one of his own songs; but he determined in favor of one written by a man long dead, a song that he loved above all songs. It was the brave, ironical lament composed by Guilhem IX of Aquitaine, prince, lover, soldier, when he returned beaten and shattered from his inglorious crusade. Lament though it was, there was no open grief expressed in its delicate measures—rather a gentle melancholy that dares to laugh at itself. And this he sang, with its perfect form and subdued, half-cynical passion. 

This time the multitude did not applaud. The mood was too fine for their northern perceptions. But the king, scholar and gentleman for all his boyishness, was lifted out of himself into ecstatic admiration. 

“So should a brave man bear his sorrow!” he cried. “And well for the prince who has such a troubadour to sing him! Ah, Cercamon, I must have you in Paris!” 

And, filling his cup to the brim, he drank Cercamon's health. 


{{di|D}}URING the next three days Cercamon derived a grim satisfaction from the subtle game played between Thibault and the king; the count trying by every device to bring his royal guest to a serious discussion of the proposed marriage, and at the same time making every opportunity for him to see and talk with the Countess Alys; while Louis as watchfully avoided all talk of the alliance and sought, by keeping Thibault anxious, to make him increase the sums he had offered as the girl's dowry. 

For Louis, however young and hot-headed, had inherited his father's love of a bargain, and it was his duty to replenish the exhausted revenues of France. Moreover, the proud boy took a mischievous delight in his vassal's impatience. 

Cercamon had great need of such comfort as he could get, for his anxiety over his own position grew more painful every day. Had his messages got through? Had the monk who bore the duchess's letter reached Abbot Suger? And had Armagnac heard of his danger? The time must soon come when Thibault and the king would reach an agreement, and then the cause of Aquitaine would be lost. 

Such a result would be most perilous for Aquitaine: Thibault, her ancient enemy, would become the most powerful man in France next to the king; and the king's power to check his ambition would be overbalanced by his loyalty to a father-in-law. And to make Cercamon's trouble the greater, he could not hide from himself the fact that France would be much the better for just such an alliance with Champagne; and his allegiance to Aliénor was sorely tried by his growing admiration for the frank face and the noble heart of Countess Alys. 

Rut his own pride upheld him. He could not endure being overreached; the trick Thibault had played on him irked his Gascon soul. He must win this game for Aquitaine, if he never played another. And he resolved that if, by any miracle, Thibault's schemes should fail, he would ask his master Armagnac to release him from his vassalage. For if Aliénor of Aquitaine became Queen of France, her ruthless ambition would involve her servants in intrigues that a man of honor could not stomach. 

Those three days were spent chiefly in hunting, feasting, and dancing; for so the king willed. To fill his time with merriment was the surest way to prevent Thibault from coming to the point, and thus to whet his eagerness till he offered a greater dowry. The nobles of France were delighted with their entertainment; Louis went about with a thin, strained smile; Thibault grew more and more morose. And Cercamon waited, singing, thinking, fearing. 

The evening of the third day the tide seemed to turn in Thibault's favor. That afternoon the royal hunting-party had roused a huge boar, at which Louis rode with his reckless courage. His horse had stumbled just as the boar turned at bay. His horse killed under him, the king had lain a moment helpless, pinned to the ground, with the pig's yellow fangs leering in his face. In that moment Thibault's spear entered the monster's side, and the king was saved. 

Louis returned silent, but after supper he was exceptionally gracious to his host. When the women had left the hall and while the wine yet circulated, the king signed to Thibault, who rose with a smile of triumph. 

But before they had passed through the door for that private discussion which might settle the kingdom's destiny, the blare of many horns sounding at once brought them back to their seats. An officer from the gate ran into the hall and announced—

“The Count Raoul de Vermandois, Grand Seneschal of France!” 

Thibault scowled, and Louis filing himself back in his oaken chair with a gesture of impatience. But a wild thrill of hope shot through Cercamon's heart. A few moments later, Thibault's usher entered backward, bowing low at every other step, his white wand of office waving airily in one hand. Three paces from the king he turned, knelt and cried—

“His mightiness the grand seneschal!” 

Raoul de Vermandois, who had entered at his very heels, thrust the usher aside and kissed the king's hand. His back was rudely turned to Thibault, whom he did not love, though they were kinsmen by marriage. With an exclamation of anger, Louis bade his seneschal show deference for their host. 

Vermandois, a big-bodied, hot-tempered warrior, turned his hot young eyes on the count's. 

“Deference?” cried he. “Deference? To one who intercepts messengers to the Crown and mishandles the ambassadors of princes?” 

But as the last words fell from his lips, he caught sight of Cercamon, sitting at the table's end—Cercamon, richly clothed, well-fed, apparently at liberty and in high favor. 

Louis was on his feet, looking angrily from Vermandois to Thibauit and back. 

“What does this mean, Raoul?” he cried. “Has hatred made you mad, or have you indeed some charge to press against the Count of Champagne?” 

The grand seneschal's eyes dropped, and he muttered incoherently. The sight of the troubadour had blunted the keen edge of his fury. At length he composed himself and spoke, though with some uncertainty. 

“His excellence the regent, Abbot Suger,” he said, “has sent me with four hundred spears to escort your Majesty back to Paris. A messenger has come with tidings that cast grave doubts on Count Thibault's loyalty!” 

Every man in the company sprang to his feet, the knights of France with exclamations of wonder; the warriors of Champagne with shouts of defiance, pressing round about the seneschal with threatening scowls and hands plucking at their sword-hilts. For a little it seemed as if they would draw steel and hack the daring accuser in pieces. 

But Thibault was also on his feet, his cheeks flaming. 

“Does that man live,” he roared, “who dares accuse Thibault of Champagne of disloyalty to his king? Raoul, Raoul, if it were not for the royal presence I would cram your lie down your throat with six inches of steel!” 

Striding forward, the king caught his angry vassal's arm. His voice silenced every other; his cold, clear words drenched their passions as with water. 

“Raoul,” he said, “ride back to Paris and say to the regent that he presumes too much on our patience! I will not go back till I am ready. You, Thibault, have this day rendered me a service which of itself confutes this charge.” 

The grand seneschal blushed purple. 

“Your Majesty's will is the will of God!” he answered in a choked voice. “I will go. But first I crave five minutes' private speech with your Majesty, in the interest of France. If I fail to satisfy your Majesty, I will go down on my knees before the Count of Champagne and ask his pardon for my words!” 

Thibault strove in vain to catch the King's eye. Louis pondered, his face still angry; but at last he nodded. 

“So be it!” he said. “Follow me to my apartments!” 


{{di|I}}T WAS nearer half an hour than five minutes before the king returned. In that long, tense interval Thibault waited in angry bewilderment, his eyes turning questioningly from the puzzled knights of Paris to the troubadour. At last, as if making up his mind that the seneschal's charge of disloyalty must have some connection with his captive, he signed to Cercamon, who elbowed through the crowding, whispering throng to the count's side. 

“Remember your promise!” Thibault whispered. 

Cercamon whispered back: 

“I will keep my promise; I will say no word to any man concerning your actions till I have left your roof.” 

Thibault nodded, as if satisfied. If Cercamon said nothing, he should be safe; for the men who had captured the troubadour had worn no badges and had observed every caution. Yet Thibault was mightily troubled to know what lay behind Raoul's charge that he had intercepted a messenger to the Court. 

At last Louis reentered the hall, Vermandois at his side. By the smoldering rage in the king's white face, by the unconcealed grin of triumph on Raoul's, the excited knights could see that Thibault had fared badly in that secret conversation. Louis strode swiftly up to the count, his eyes blazing, and shot one swift question—

“How dare you stop a messenger between Aquitaine and France?” 

Thibault recoiled, but his bluff features, long practised in dissimulation, assumed an expression of injury and astonishment. With every air of innocence he asked: 

“What means your gracious Majesty? Have I not always been faithful?” 

Vermandois sneered openly. Louis, drawing from his breast a rolled parchment, struck it, rather than gave it, into Thibault's hand. 

“Read!” he commanded. 

The seal was already broken. Unrolling the parchment with fingers that trembled a little for all his forced composure, Thibault read. In spite of his efforts at self-control, the flush ebbed from his cheeks, and his teeth gritted. The paper was a proposal, from the Duchess Aliénor to the Regent Suger, for a marriage between herself and the king. 

“My lord!” Thibault stammered. “This paper—I do not understand. I am accused of intercepting a message, which—” he paused, and gathering firmness, concluded with an air of virtue—“which has not been intercepted at all! For lo, I saw it first in your Majesty's hand!” 

The king could not repress his fury. 

“You dare to bandy words with me!” he exclaimed. “This letter was brought to the regent by a monk of the Cistercian abbey at La Ferté-en-Bois, who declared that its bearer, the troubadour Cercamon, had entrusted it to his prior but a few minutes before Cercamon was dragged from the abbey by soldiers who wore no badge. And here”—he pointed to Cercamon—“here I find this troubadour in your own castle! What better proof could I ask?” 

Thibault raised his eyes to Cercamon's. 

“You find him in my castle,” he repeated, “but as an honored guest—not as a captive!” 

Louis turned to the troubadour. 

“How came you hither?” he asked. 

His tongue bound by his parole, Cercamon sought for an answer which would not break his word of honor. 

“I rode north on an errand of my master, the Duke of Armagnac,” he answered slowly. “Meeting with men of Count Thibault's, I yielded to his invitation to pass some time at his court.” 

Louis stamped his foot. 

“What was the nature of your errand?” he demanded. 

“Your pardon, my lord! I can not reveal my master's secrets!” 

“Do you deny that you bore this letter from the Duchess of Aquitaine as far as La Ferté, and that it was there taken from you?” 

“I neither affirm nor deny anything, my lord the king!” 

Thibault drew a sigh of relief; but Louis was not satisfied. 

“Your case, Raoul,” he said to his seneschal, “falls to the ground because the chief witness will not speak, Nevertheless there is sufficient evidence for me to acquit you of your promise to ask the count's pardon. Ride back to Paris and say to the regent that I will return in five days. The Count of Champagne has honored me with a proposal which demands my consideration, and I would consider it under his roof. Take also this troubadour to Paris and find means to make him tell all that he knows!” 

Thibault looked most uncomfortable. It did not soothe him to see the king take back the letter from Aquitaine and replace it carefully in his tunic. But he was in no position to protest against the suspicion which rested upon him. The evidence against him was strong, even in the face of Cercamon's silence. 

It was certain now—and he cursed himself for failing to foresee such a chance—that Cercamon had outplayed him in that swift scene of ambush and capture at the monastery. Now Cercamon was to be taken to Paris, by the king's order, which Thibault could not countermand. The worst was that as soon as Cercamon left Blois Castle he was free from his parole and would doubtless tell the whole story. 

The only comfort was that the king still meant to tarry at Blois; and even that was no longer an unmixed blessing. For Louis would use Aquitaine's offer—now that he knew of it—as a bid against that of Champagne; and Thibault would be forced to increase his own offer. Louis held against him not only Aliénor's terms, which Thibault knew from the duplicate he had captured to offer greater advantage than his own, but also the fact that Thibault had sought to prevent the king from knowing of the Aquitanian proposals. 

He was outbid, and he had committed a crime; for immunity and victory he must pay a high price. He must greatly increase the amount he offered as his daughter's dowry, and he resolved to do so as soon as Vermandois and the troubadour should depart. 

That night, by royal order, Cercamon slept under guard; and at daybreak the next morning he was roused by one of the seneschal's spearmen. Raoul had no desire to wait one hour longer than the condition of his horses demanded; and after a cold breakfast on the remains of last night's banquet, he led his men out under the great gate and toward Paris. 


{{di|C}}ERCAMON took the road in no happy mood. His message had reached the regent, and he was free from his parole and out of reach of Thibault's vengeance; but fie was as yet neither at liberty nor victorious. The king had ordered him to Paris, whither he had no desire to go. He could see no advantage for Aquitaine in his telling his tale to the regent: the king's willingness to remain under Thibault's roof after he knew of the count's treachery was proof that Louis meant to balance the offer of Aquitaine against that of Champagne. 

Thus forced to the wall, Thibault could hardly do anything but make so high a bid that Louis would be tempted. Nor was Aquitaine in a position to raise its own bid, seeing that Cercamon, alone of those who favored Aquitaine, knew what had just taken place at Blois. It might well be that, in the absence of a second and larger offer from Aliénor, the king would contract the alliance with Thibault's daughter. In Paris Cercamon would be helpless to inform either his master Armagnac or the duchess of what had happened. 

He was still a prisoner, though in honorable captivity. Raoul meant to carry out the king's order and take him to the capital, and had therefore placed him between two keen-eyed young knights, with whom it was a point of honor to watch him with ceaseless vigilance. They rode close by his side, and before and, behind them were hundreds of men-at-arms to lend authority to their watchfulness. Yet Cercamon did not despair of eluding them if the slightest chance offered itself. And he was determined to make the chance if none came of itself, for the only hope for Aquitaine lay in his escaping to bring word to the duchess of that which was going on at Blois. 

His own horse had been returned to him, and he trusted to its swiftness—if he could only win past his guards. He stole constant sidelong glances at the horses on either side of him, measuring as well as he could their probable speed and endurance. And thus the huge cavalcade cantered down the high road to Paris, in the chilly morning, through the bright noon, and in the cold twilight. 

But with twilight a soft, persistent rain began to fall. The seneschal cursed furiously. At night so large a company must ride slowly, and there would be three hours more of drenching, chilling wet and of gradually worsening roads before they reached the shelter of Orleans, the first stopping-point of their three-day journey. Vermandois let his trumpets sound, and the horsemen made the most of the last light for a gallop that would take them as far toward the shelter of Orleans as possible before night shut down in earnest. 

The gathering darkness brought new hope to the troubadour. He rode stirrup for stirrup beside his guards, to lull their suspicions. On his left were two men—one of the knights set to watch him, and another; on his right but the one guard, for they rode in column of fours. But on the right was also the river Loire, not easily forded in the dark and the rain. Yet it was on the right that Cercamon watched for his opportunity; it would be impossible to break past the two on his other side. Let his man but lag behind a little, let his horse stumble on the softened, slippery road, and Cercamon was ready to spur past him. 

But, as if reading his thoughts, the young noble on his right caught at Cercamon's rein and held it. It was plain that strict orders had been given to prevent his escape. And once they reached Orleans, escape would be impossible. During the night he would be guarded closely, within walls whereon sentries would be posted; and the ride from Orleans to Paris would be through royal domain all the way, with king's troopers patrolling the roads. 

They were still half a league from Orleans when the opportunity came. Cercamon was waiting for it with bated breath and did not let it slip. In the black darkness, the man on his right rode full into a deep crevice in the road, filled with rain-water. His horse stumbled, slithered and went down. Taken wholly unaware, the knight let Cercamon's bridle drop from his fingers as he clutched madly at his own; Cercamon tugged his beast's head sharply to the right, thrust home the spurs and shot past the fallen man into the night. 

Hearing him dash by, his warder set up a shout, which was instantly echoed by those on the other side. Confused cries rang out; trumpets blew; the whole cavalcade drew raggedly to a halt. Officers rode down the line, demanding what had happened; those who first learned of the escape rode forward to report. A score of men gave tongue at once; none could see a yard ahead of him in the rain and the blackness; the officers began to curse and strike out. 

The tumult lasted long enough so that, when it ceased, Cercamon's hoof-beats were no longer audible on the rain-softened earth. None could see him; it was only known that he had ridden to the right. 

Calling his sergeants together, Vermandois bade them ride off hotspur toward the river, swim it and quarter the fields beyond on a front of more than a hundred yards. It was a desperate task, for the river was rising, and none could see his way to the broken bank. Only the urgency of the king's orders held them to it. 

To the river they rode, some crashing over their horses' heads as they failed to take off well at the river's brim; others sinking in unexpected depths, and yet others carried down-stream in the muddy water before they could make a landing on the other side. Yet most of them won across; and then began the blind hunt through soaked meadows and plowed fields, slipping, stumbling, some going down in ditches or deep furrows. 

The night bewildered their sense of direction; their mounts, afraid of the wicked footing and excited almost to frenzy by the pricking spurs and the shouting, bolted off to all sides. At last, some thrown and limping, all mired and weary, the troopers returned to report neither sight nor sound of the runaway. 

Cercamon had had his own share of perils in his wild dash, but he kept his head, he was not weighted down by armor, and he had the advantage of being the pursued instead of the pursuer. In the murk night that pressed in all about him, he, too, had stumbled; but his horse, recovering on the very margin of the river, had taken off with a splendid leap into the stream. 

The roan began to swim at once; and thanks to its rider's lack of mail, it had forty pounds handicap over its followers. Straight across the river it headed, made the opposite shore, floundered awhile in the fields; and the certainty of Cercamon's purpose kept the fine beast's muzzle pointed straight for refuge. 

It was a precarious refuge he sought, uncomfortable and fraught with danger; but it was the best at hand. Turning southwest on the farther side of the Loire, he pressed on surely, cautiously, for the Sologne marshes. He scarcely feared being overhauled, knowing that an error of a single foot in estimating his direction from the road would widen to an error of a hundred yards in the first mile, what with darkness, rain, and excitement. But he greatly feared lest Vermandois take the back track, send men over the river at wide intervals and thus set ambushes for him at a score of points. In the Sologne he would have perfect shelter till the pursuit was lost. 

The Sologne stretches along the south bank of the river in a vast chain of pools and marshes, with no roads and few and perilous footpaths between. He rode into the reeds after an hour of steady, careful going, and thereafter he let the roan pick its way, taking care only to keep it moving. The horse's sharper sense of danger kept them out of the deep pools and treacherous morasses, though more than once its feet sank deep. Only when he had ridden in so far into this land of hidden death that he felt sure none would dare follow, did Cercamon turn again toward the river. 

And now began the worst stage of his adventure. Weary now, his horse lost its first alertness, and again and again Cercamon was forced to dismount and lead it for fear that it would carry him straight into a bottomless {{Wikt|quag}}. A dozen times his feet sank to the knees, and he had to pull himself out as best he could; once he sank suddenly into deep standing water and was nearly drowned before he could find firm ground. But doggedly he worked on, unable to see, yet striving always toward the river. 

He came on it at last, just as despair laid hold on him. Mounting to rest his weary legs, he rode straight into a pool, which proved to be an arm of the Loire. But here the ground was mixed clay and sand, fairly firm; and after a few minutes of swimming, the roan bore him to the stream, and to shallow water formed by rising ground, where the beast could wade. A moment later he rode out on to the bank. 

He still had to get across the river again, for there was no road along the south bank, and the lurking tentacles of the Sologne thrust out to break the river's edge at a hundred points. Cercamon waited to rest his beast, and then, picking his ford as well as he could in the dark, he half-rode, half-swam to the north bank. 

But he did not follow the high road, for to the northeast, somewhere in the night, rode the seneschal and his men, and to the southwest lay Blois. Instead, he rode across the plowed fields, slowly and with the utmost care, hoping to strike one of the roads that lead back into the rich country of the Orléanais. He had thrown the pursuit off the track, hopelessly; but of this he could not be sure. Yet he knew that they would look for him on the other side, or else believe him drowned in river or marsh. 

The first cockcrow shrilled through the chill night before he found a cart-track leading west; and this he took, following it between plowed fields till it wound into a grove. Riding deep into the shelter of the trees, he picketed and blanketed his horse. He himself was young, had often experienced wet and chilly nights in the open, and was soon asleep on the sodden ground, wrapped in his cloak. 


{{di|H}}E WAS up at sunrise, hungry and stiff; but the roan was somewhat refreshed. Creeping to the road, Cercamon spied up and down it for a time, but saw no one. There were few hoof-prints in the mud, and such as there were were the broad tracks of peasant's nags. The chase was over, and the quarry saved. 

Yet he still rode cautiously, the more so since his way led through Thibault's domain. Straight west he pounded, till he was far enough from Blois to venture on a circuit that would take him safely past. The bend in the Loire between Orleans and Tours was so marked that he could at last take a cross-country short-cut, following, as it were, the bowstring while the river and the highroad formed the bent bow. 

Tours was his objective: if his message to Bertrand d'Armagnac had been as successful as that to the Regent, his master would be on the road north to inquire after him; and through Tours Armagnac must pass.  

For two days he rode on, no man stopping him; finding food and shelter with the peasants. On the second day, at evening, he rode through the gate of Tours, learning from the sentinels that none from Aquitaine had come that way. But the next morning, less than a league south of the city, he beheld a great cavalcade shining against the Spring sun. By their direction, they could only come from Poitou. And as they drew nearer, he saw the great banner of Aquitaine floating in the van. With a shout of joy he spurred to meet them. 

The outriders recognized him with cries of astonishment, and from behind their ranks a horseman rode out to meet him. The nasaled helmet hid his features; but his lean, war-hardened body and centaur's carriage were those of Bertrand d'Armagnac, Seneschal of Aquitaine. 

The great man wrung the hand of his friend and servant in an iron grip of fellow ship. Then, smiling but asking no questions, Armagnac led him to the front rank of the mainguard. Cercamon gave a gasp of surprize. There, in the midst of mail-clad soldiers, sitting the saddle with the ease of the perfect horseman, sat—his princess, Aliénor herself! 

Slipping from the saddle, he kissed her hand. Aliénor laughed, and the sound was like the rippling of a brook. She rode astride, as was women's custom then; her wide cloak was of blue velvet, which well set off her bright cheeks and glowing golden hair, caught up in a net of twisted silver. Cercamon, himself and his beast plastered with the mud of the Sologne, made a sorry sight. 

“When Cercamon is hard pressed, his duchess herself can not sit idle at home!” she smiled at him. 

Bertrand d'Armagnac grinned wryly. 

“Do not believe her grace!” he scoffed. “She followed not out of favor to thee, but from sheer mischief and love of peril!” 

Aliénor motioned the troubadour to ride by her side. 

“Now tell me!” she commanded; and as they rode on toward Tours, he told of all that had befallen him. 

“Why, thou art fit to be one of the twelve peers of Charlemagne!” she applauded, but Armagnac only laughed. 

“It was well done to choose Cistercians for your messengers,” he approved. “None dares stop the Gray Monks; no, not Thibault himself, who has befriended them till their grant abbot has grown mightier than he. Word of your plight reached us two days ago, and we rode north as fast as we could collect two hundred spears. The duchess would not remain behind; there is some devilry brooding behind that angel's smile of hers.” 

Aliénor laughed again. 

“In truth,” she explained, “we ride for Paris, to lay complaint before the king concerning Thibault's treatment of you, and to demand justice. But since the king is in Blois{{bar|2}}”” 

“Since the king is in Blois,” Armagnac interrupted, “he will doubtless marry Thibault's daughter, and our project will be lost. Thibault will see to that. But you are weary, my lady, and well-nigh starved. Yonder looms the gate of Tours. We will talk more of this matter over the meat and wine.” 


{{di|W}}HEN Thibault of Champagne, behind the locked door of his treasure-room, counted over his gold and silver, he was a rueful man; but when he reflected on all the advantages of state he stood to reap from the king's presence he was more than comforted. Louis had indeed dealt strictly with him, during the five days since Vermandois had ridden away with the troubadour. Though the king had not once given utterance to his suspicions concerning Thibault's offense, since Raoul's departure, he had taken care, by hints and scowls, to let his host see that he had not forgotten it. 

And now the king had Aquitaine's offer, in black and white, as Vermandois had brought it from Paris—the six thousand gold marks that Aliénor promised in dowry, the five castles she ceded to the Crown, her thrice-welcome consent to the union of all her provinces with the royal {{SIC|demain}}. She held out on only one point—the lands of Poitou and Aquitaine must be reckoned as part of her dowry; in case of her divorce, or the king's death before her, they should revert to her. 

This was a mighty offer. For generations the Crown had vainly striven to wrest from the Dukes of Aquitaine a recognition of the king's suzerainty over them; now Aquitaine itself made the proffer, if the king would marry Aliénor—and the Duchess Aliénor was reputed the most beautiful woman in France. 

Thibault could not furnish such a tempting bait. He had already recognized Louis as his liege lord; he could not give up more than two castles. Therefore he must bid all the higher in gold, and it was fortunate for him that France needed gold more than anything else. The Countess Alys was not so fair as her rival, but the king had never seen Aliénor. Thibault had not scrupled to break the seal of the letter he had taken from Cercamon and knew Aquitaine's offer as well as the king, but since Louis also knew it, the count must empty his treasure-chest to tempt the king's fancy to his daughter. This thought tore at his frugal soul, and the close smile on the king's lips maddened him. 

But—once the king should sign the marriage contract, Thibault would be the first baron of France. His royal son-in-law would be obliged, by the tie of kindred, to wink at Thibault's ambitions. His enemies would be as dirt under his feet. No longer checked by the envy of the Crown, he could stretch out his greedy hands to seize Burgundy; Flanders, too, should fall before him. Then he and his brother, King Stephen of England, would squeeze Normandy between them as in a vise. 

He would be mightier than the king, mightier than Aquitaine. These his glittering dreams reconciled him to the loss of his gold, which he could recover many times in the loot of neighbor provinces. To secure this boundless advantage he must press Louis to a settlement before Vermandois should bribe or force Cercamon to tell his story, and before the regent could persuade the king to break with Champagne. Aye, all this must be done before morning, for in the morning the king planned to set forth for Paris. 

So each of the two antagonists in this game of state played astutely during those five days, while the sweet young countess who was no more to either of them than a pawn was pushed about the broad gaming-board of France with no regard for her shy unhappiness. She knew, now, the rôle destined for her, and took no joy in it; but she had no choice but to obey her father. Well she knew that the players both cared more for gold and broad lands than for her happiness; and she was afraid of the fierce-eyed young king, with his gusts of rage and his cold cunning. 

But Louis was well-content. The menace which he held over Thibault's head, in the still unheard testimony of Cercamon, gave him a high advantage in the bargaining. So, too, did the fact that he was in no hurry; while Thibault must win or lose all before Aquitaine learned of his intervention and raised its offer. The two gamesters seemed to change natures; the shrewd old count lost patience and self-control, while the young hot-head became cool, confident and overbearing. 

Neither knew that Aquitaine had already heard, thanks to the troubadour's escape; but on the third day a messenger came galloping in on a blown horse to report that Cercamon had fled a»d could not be found. The King flew into a consuming passion, vowing death and torture to the fugitive so soon as he should be taken; but he retained enough prudence to hide the disaster from Thibault's ears, and so held his advantage. 

Evening of the fifth day found the contract still unsigned, the two cunning adversaries still playing out their game of barter. Thibault had slowly raised his offer of dowry, till it now stood at eighteen thousand marks in gold—an enormous sum, to pay which he must pledge a sixth of his estates. He was trembling with suspense, well-nigh beyond himself at thought of parting with so much wealth. 

Louis could scarce contain his satisfaction. Whichever won—Champagne or Aquitaine—he stood to win more by a marriage contract than his great father had been able to win by sword and statesmanship combined. If he allied with Aquitaine, he won half the south; if with Champagne, half the north would be pledged to support him in his impending war with Anjou, and his coffers, now nearly empty, would be crammed with gold. 

Thibault drank heavily at supper, and his heart was emboldened by the heady wine. He raised his offer to twenty thousand marks. The young king, smiling sardonically, gestured as if to put the bid aside; but his spirits leaped. He knew Thibault had well-nigh reached his utmost, and the sum was indeed princely. What could he not do with twenty thousand marks? It would buy him many soldiers, professional fighting-men. He could easily overpower Geoffrey of Anjou—why not Brittany also, and even Normandy? Aye, he would seize Normandy from Anjou and hold it for himself. 

So intent was Louis on his thoughts that the trumpet which blared without the walls scarce roused him, nor did Thibault regard it either. The prospect of interruption was like the buzzing of a troublesome insect. Thibault raised his shaggy brows inquiringly, and the king nodded. The count gestured to his master of the garrison. 

“Admit whoso it may be, Raymond!” he muttered. “But let them not disturb us till I summon you. His Majesty and I must be untroubled.” 

And, bowing, he led the way to his private chamber. 

In preparation for this moment, when the King's defense should weaken, he had laid out on the table in his chamber a sheet of parchment, fairly engrossed by his clerk; his seal was already appended, and tapers and wax were ready for the king's use. He had but to strike the bell that hung by the table, and his clerk would summon his daughter and two knights, to sign the contract as party and witnesses. 

It was on this parchment that Louis' eyes fell as soon as he entered the chamber. He sat down on the carven bench before the table and read, for he was as learned as any monk. His long, thin fingers pointed at the words; his lank hair, blown into his face by a draft from an arrow-slit, he shook impatiently back into place. 

“The amount of the dowry is not set down,” he said, turning his keen eyes on the older man. 

Thibault summoned his clerk, a lean fellow in rusty black. 

“Write 'twenty thousand marks in gold,' Ambrose!” he said. 

Louis glanced at him sardonically. 

“Nay,” he contradicted. “Write 'Twenty-one thousand'!” 

But though his lips smiled, his glance was hot, and his heart beat furiously. 

The clerk caught his master's eye. Thibault hesitated, licking his dry lips. Then—

“Do as the king bids!” he cried. 

The clerk wrote. 

Louis caught the pen from his hand, dipped it in the oak-gall and caught the parchment to him. Thibault's hands, gripping the griffon's heads on his chair-arms, were white. The king would sign! All was won! 

Louis' fingers poised over the parchment. For an instant he hesitated, then touched the pen to the sheet. At that instant a knock, thundering, impatient, beat on the door. 

The king sprang back as if struck, the space for his signature still empty save for a round blot. Thibault was on his feet; but the door was flung violently open, and his master of the garrison came in with staring eyes. 

“My lord!” he gasped. “You must go down to the hall—at once!” 

Thibault clutched de Montivre's shoulder fiercely. 

“Did I not say that I would not be interrupted?” he snarled. 

“Aye, but, gracious lord—they who come{{bar|2}}” 

“Who is it?” Louis asked; and his tones endured no denial. 

“It is—the Duchess of Aquitaine!” 

Louis flung himself back in his chair, his mouth twitching in voiceless laughter. Thibault was staggered, white with rage and consternation. How had it happened? Who had brought word of his designs to Aquitaine? How dared the woman come here, to Blois, to his own castle? 

But the king, risen, offered the old man his arm, with a courtesy just touched with mockery. 

“Let us go down,” he said. “I would fain see this duchess, who is said to be so beautiful. Brave she must be as well as fair, to risk herself here at such a time!” 

The king's wish was a command, and Thibault dared not disobey. As he passed through the door, Montivre whispered in his ear—

“Armagnac is with her, with a hundred spears, and—Cercamon!” 


{{di|T}}HIBAULT of Champagne took fire slowly, but his rage, once kindled, never died. In after years Louis often regretted that soundless laugh at the great baron's discomfiture; but at the moment Thibault stifled his emotions and prepared for the struggle that lay before him. 

Twenty-one thousand marks! He had made the highest bid he dared; he had scarce enough left to pay his men-at-arms their wage. He could borrow of the Jews, but they would take his fattest lands in pledge and demand a frightful interest. And now that the Duchess of Aquitaine was here, with that accursed troubadour, Louis would seize the occasion to make her bid against him. 

The sordidness of the thing—that a baron of France and a young princess should bargain one against the other for an advantageous marriage—troubled him no more than it would trouble Aliénor. He had never seen Aliénor, but he knew Aquitaine was richer than Champagne. If she was set on marrying Louis, she could offer more than he. 

But one thing he knew and calculated on—she was a lady of birth and breeding and must have the grace to refrain from barter against him under his own roof—at least in his presence. If he used all his cunning, all his persuasion, he might yet close his deal with the king before Louis departed. And to that end he must keep Louis with him after Aliénor could be induced to leave. 

Therefore he accepted the situation with what poise he could. The two princes entered the hall together, Louis assured and smiling, Thibault outwardly calm, but on fire within, But Aliénor was not there. 

Surrounded by a crowd of knights—they of France, who had come in the king's suite, rubbing shoulders affably with Thibault's vassals and a knot of new-come lords from Aquitaine—stood Bertrand of Armagnac; and at his side was Cercamon. Armagnac was talking briskly, and the company listened breathlessly. Thibault's ears caught a few words here and there—vivid phrases of battle, to which the soldiers of France ever listen avidly. And Armagnac was a soldier whom every glory-loving soldier worshiped, whose skill to paint a mêlée was as great as his sword was trenchant. 

At the threshold Thibault stepped back one pace, to give precedence to the king. It was Armagnac who first saw the young monarch's tall form and signed to the crowd about him to fall back. All bowed, and Bertrand stepped forward to kiss the king's hand. But Louis' eyes traveled past him to the troubadour, and anger sparkled in them. 

“That man is yours, Bertrand,” he said, his finger pointing out Cercamon. “Five days hence I sent him to Paris, under escort. He escaped, ignoring my orders. I pray you give him to me, that I may deal with, him!” 

Armagnac glanced over his shoulder at Cercamon. 

“He was on my service, your Majesty,” he replied. “I take his guilt on my shoulders.” 

Louis bit his lips. There was nothing he could say or do. Cercamon was vassal to Bertrand, Bertrand to Aliénor; and Aliénor of Aquitaine was a sovereign princess, who owed no vassalage to France. But in that moment Thibault tasted a shred of triumph: Armagnac's defiance of the king's will was a bad way to introduce Aquitaine's suit for a marriage with the king. Thibault almost forgave the troubadour for that tiny, precious advantage. And while he chewed that crumb of consolation, Armagnac, who was no courtier, made matters worse by turning from Louis and greeting his unwilling host. 

“Your Grace will pardon the duchess that she has not waited your coming,” Bertrand said. “She has gone to Countess Alys' apartments to rest from the fatigues of her journey.” 

But in that moment the voice of an usher rang from the door—

“Her Grace the Duchess of Aquitaine, Countess of Poitou and Suzeraine of Auvergne!” 

Every voice was hushed, every eye lifted to the doorway. The king faced about, his eyes lighting with curiosity; Thibault stood stiff, gnawing his lip. The assembled knights fell apart to left and right, those of Aquitaine failing to one knee. Aliénor entered, on the arm of Alys; and at sight of her Thibault's heart sank. 

Not for nothing had rumor heralded her the loveliest woman in France. She was tall and exquisitely graceful; not a dark beauty of that Roman kind for which the South is famous, but all gold and roses, with the perfect features which had been bred in her ancestry for three generations. 

But more than mere perfection of line and color was the spirit within, that flooded all her being with a resplendent vitality. She seemed a princess of romance, descended from the gods of pagan story. 

Yet there was not too much of the goddess in her to disdain human prudence, for she was clad not in the dusty robes of her journey, but in a fresh, close-fitting bodice of pale-blue silk, and a flowing gown of the same color, broidered in gold by the cunning Moors of Andalusia. Her fine arms were bare from the elbow, her wondrous golden hair was a crown upon her head. She wore no jewels, nor needed any. 

Louis was nearest her, and first saw her full splendor. He uttered a soft gasp, and in the complete silence the sound was heard to the farthest corner of the room. He bent to kiss her hand, then, retaining her fingers, led her to Thibault. The count's reluctant back bent in as gracious a bow as he could manage. Though Aliénor caught the glint of anger in his eyes, her expression never altered from that meek graciousness which made her seem an angel from heaven. 

And almost as such the knights of France regarded her in that moment. Adoration of beauty was in their blood; the worship of lovely women, born in the south, had already found its shrines in Paris. Never before had those soldiers seen such loveliness; never again would they see it in any other woman. Emulating her own vassals, they sank to their knees before her. Even Thibault's more stolid easterners felt her spell. 

The old Count of Champagne was seized with panic. Beside this woman any other was as nothing; not a man in that hall had eyes for his daughter, hostess though she was in her father's house. She stood unseen, unregarded, her own eyes turned in rapturous admiration on Aliénor. Oh, that his master of the garrison had had the wit, the daring, to keep his drawbridge raised and his gates closed to these accursed folk of the south! 

Yet Thibault knew in his heart that even he would not have dared to shut Aliénor out from his castle and bid defiance to a sovereign princess, while the King of France, with three hundred of his bravest knights, was within its walls. 


{{di|I}}T WAS Bertrand of Armagnac who broke the tension. Striding past the king, he bowed one knee before the Countess Alys and raised her fingers to his lips. Her words of welcome lifted the spell. A huge chair, padded with the skins of beasts and silken cushions, was placed near the hearth for Aliénor; the king sat on her right, Thibault on her left and Alys behind her chair. The knights gathered round; the magic of Armagnac's martial tales vied with that of the duchess' beauty. So they sat till the tables were spread. 

Aliénor knew when to be indiscreet and how to take the sting from indiscretion with her smiles. Over the wine she gave her loveliest glance to Thibault and laid her left hand on his arm. 

“I have a quarrel to pick with you, my lord count!” she began. “It was ill done of you to seize my messenger!” 

Thibault caught his breath and glanced at the king. The charge brought against him by Vermandois was proved now; surely all was lost! Louis was already under her spell; this would rouse him to fury. But Louis only shrugged his shoulders and returned Thibault's gaze sardonically. Thibault felt baffled and afraid; therefore he was silent. 

“Fortunately that messenger was Cercamon,” the duchess's flute-like voice resumed. “He found others to take his letter to Paris and to warn me. I rode north at once, thinking to lay my complaint before the regent in Paris; and so I should have done, had Cercamon not met us.” 

Cercamon! This was the first Thibault had heard of the troubadour's escape from Vermandois. Once more the count glanced at Louis, who laughed shortly. 

“Aye!” the king exclaimed, with a hard look at Cercamon, who sat on Armagnac's left. “I would have had the truth from him, and then taken him into my service; but he was too slippery to hold. Will you make me such a song as never before was heard, troubadour, if I forgive you?” 

Cercamon rose and bowed. 

“Perchance,” he said, “but it will take time to make such a song. And in the mean time I may forfeit the pardon.” 

Thibault felt as if the solid earth had opened under his feet, to plunge him into some topsy-turvy land of faerie. This woman had spoken out such truths as should blast his good repute and make every man of birth in France look askance at him—yet none of all that company seemed to sense their meaning. The king, who had every right to be furious with him for intercepting a messenger to the Court, merely shrugged and smiled. Cercamon, fresh from an escapade that had roused all the king's anger, even now was scarce civil in responding to an offer of pardon. That woman from the south had so bewitched them all that they neither saw nor heard but as she wished; and for the moment she seemed not to wish for discord. 

But there were others who glanced at her with uneasy eyes, for they knew her—Armagnac and the troubadour. They had seen her in her own court, in all her rainbow moods; and they felt how heavy with peril the {{SIC|atmostphere}} had become. Cercamon, more than the old soldier his master, felt the tension. With all his poet's sensitiveness he responded to the undertones of Aliénor's voice, her quick, graceful gestures, the subtle note of pride and mischief that rose in her tones as she drank more wine. 

Cercamon knew that beneath her lustrous beauty there dwelt a hidden demon, that fed on ambition, on greed, on lust of possessing and of using power. He watched her eyes, noting how they roved now and again, in little, catlike flashes, toward Thibault's daughter. The demon was stirring in Aliénor, laughing as she played with Thibault's fears, but able at any moment to leap into tempestuous, devastating life. 

His eyes left her and sought the gentle, ingenuous girl on the king's left. Countess Alys would never kindle the tongues of singers to rapturous praise; she would not set princes to quarreling over her beauty. But she would bless with quiet happiness and with wise, honest counsel, the man who should know how to cherish her. 

Thibault regained his tongue at last. 

“You are very gracious,” he muttered. “I shall remember your kindness.” 

In all honesty—for the disaster which he saw overwhelming his schemes had subdued both his cunning and his spirit for the moment—the old man was seeking to bury the memory of his offense; but Aliénor chose to misinterpret those ambiguous words, “I shall remember your kindness.” Her eyes flashed, and into her too-sweet voice there crept an undertone of sheer malice that made Cercamon, listening, feel sick at heart. 

“Cercamon met us beyond Tours,” she said. “He and Armagnac advised me to ride straight on to Paris and demand of the regent that he summon you to a royal council, at which the king would have been compelled to be present also; and the charge would have been raised against you so that you could not have evaded it. But I thought otherwise. It is Louis who is king in France, not the regent; and I determined to place my case in the king's own hands. Therefore I ordered that we ride hither. I have you to thank for the thought, my lord of Champagne. Did not you choose to lay your suit before the king, rather than the regent?” 

Her words were softly uttered, but they stung. Thibault recognized, as she meant him to, that his very cleverness in trapping Cercamon had been twisted against him by the troubadour's intelligence. Cercamon's message, sent just before his capture, had brought Vermandois from Paris, to give the king the means to extort a high offer and to furnish Cercamon a chance to escape and freedom from his parole. 

Cercamon's report to the duchess concerning Thibault's direct suit to the king had inspired Aliénor to bring her offer, her accusation and her fatal beauty to Blois. 

And Thibault glared at Cercamon with a concentrated fury, the threat of which he could not veil before the king had seen it. But Louis only laughed—a laugh which Thibault liked none the better because he could not understand it. He felt that Louis practised on him and had some trick in store; and no man likes less to be tricked than he who has himself intrigued. 


{{di|B}}UT Aliénor had more in store for him, and worse. So far, what she had said had at least been so veiled that his daughter, who knew nothing of his dealings with Cercamon, did not understand what was at stake. Alys knew that her father had offered her hand to the king, but not that Aliénor was her rival; nor did she suspect it. But Thibault understood the covert thrust in the duchess' words, and he was still reddening at it when she dealt an open stab that revealed how {{SIC|concious}} she was of her advantage. 

“I was sure,” she said—and her bewitching eyes sought Louis, who gazed into them with open admiration—“I was sure I could trust his Majesty's good taste.” 

Unable to endure the torture longer, Thibault rose, trembling with rage. Once more he glared at Cercamon, the instrument that had made his humiliation possible. But it was a bitterly unhappy face that the troubadour turned toward him. Cercamon had few illusions about his duchess, but he had never before seen the soul of Jezebel so revoltingly plain behind her beauty. 

And now Alys herself began to understand. The poor girl was aflame with affronted pride. The tension which held those in the secret spread through the company; though most of the knights knew only part of the negotiations on one side or the other, Aliénor's jeering words gave them material to guess the rest. 

All were silent, scowling, or casting uneasy glances at one another. Champenois glowered at Aguitanian, while the Parisians strove to conceal an embarrassment which, for them, was unrelieved by the satisfaction of ancient hatreds. 

Thibault, on his feet, bowed low to the king, stiffly to Aliénor. His pride, cut to the raw, was stronger now than greed or ambition. With an access of superb dignity, he confronted young Louis as he might have faced a haggling merchant. 

“Your Majesty has received my last offer,” he began. “All too much have I chaffered over that which is above price. Your Majesty must choose as may seem best for the honor of France.” 

Offering his arm to his daughter, he turned to leave the hall. At this, the whole company rose; but Louis flung out an arm to command attention. His prudence was flung to the winds; from the first moment of Aliénor's queenly entrance, her beauty had set his brain on fire. He had drunk more than his wont and was not his own master. 

“Then hear!” he cried so that all turned in astonishment at the passion in his voice. He seized Aliénor's hand, drew her to him, and raised his wine-cup. “Then hear, Thibault, and all ye men of France! I have chosen, and now I offer you a health to Aliénor of Aquitaine, the fairest woman in the world, and soon to be queen of France!” 

To Cercamon, watching with pitiful eyes, the astounded knights seemed to fade away from his vision, leaving nothing but the dark background of the walls, the glare of the torches, and between those two, standing out with terrible distinctness, the triumphant, jeering Aliénor and the humbled Countess Alys. 

Why should not Louis choose Aliénor, loveliest of women even in her most evil moods, so lovely that her bodily perfection veiled the ugliness of her heart? What was a dowry of more than twenty thousand marks of finest gold beside a beauty which the world could not buy again with all its wealth, if she were no more? 

No wonder the boy who bore the crown of France had no eyes for the girl who clung to Thibault's arm, red and white by turns, brutally humiliated, pointed at by Aliénor's scorn. A great pity for Alys welled in the troubadour's heart, and a fierce rage against Aliénor, whom he had served faithfully, but who was unworthy an honest man's regard. 

He stood still beside his chair, his hand trembling on its carven back. Then, for an instant, the Countess Alys met his gaze and seemed to draw strength from it. Her firm chin went up, her eyes blazed; she faced Aliénor with a pride that dominated the other woman's triumph. 

“I congratulate the Duchess of Aquitaine,” she said in low, clear tones. “France could have no fairer queen!” 

Cercamon thrilled with response to her pride, that would not let her return scorn for scorn. But his anger was greater than before, that the king could be so blind, and Aliénor so cruel. 

At the countess' words, the men of Aquitaine burst into applause; but they of Champagne muttered in their beards. The knights of the king's suite, as in duty bound, cheered loudly. As the tumult died down, one who had drunk more than was good spoke his mind, and his words pierced through the subsiding murmur with terrible clearness: 

“The king has chosen well! She of Aquitaine is worth a thousand of the other!” 

The silence that followed was quick with menace. Thibault of Champagne swung about as if he had been struck; his knights reached for their hilts. The Aquitanians, seeing the hostile glances and gestures, grouped about Bertrand of Armagnac as if to form battle-array. Then Cercamon's endurance broke. His whole soul was outraged at the insult; his fiery love of combat and his sensitive honor forced from his lips a reply that he scarce realized before it crossed his lips. But it rang through the hall like a peal of trumpets: 

“Nay, the king has chosen like a fool! He has scorned the pure gold, and has chosen the gilded lead!” 

He caught one glimpse of Thibault's astounded face before the tempest burst about him. Then, with hot cries of rage, the king's knights flung themselves upon him, their swords flashing from the scabbard. The Aquitanians would have been first in avenging the slight to their duchess, had they not known Cercamon better. For a year he had been among them, and they knew his terrible skill with his weapon. Only a moment they hesitated, but that moment sufficed. Bertrand d'Armagnac, who had led them a hundred times in the storm of battle, cast himself between them and the troubadour. 

“Back!” he cried. “The first man of the south to draw sword against Cercamon dies by my blade! My lady duchess, your grace can afford to ignore such words from one who has served you well in the past, and who now is mad! Bethink you well what a crime it is to slay a troubadour!” 

His last words had an effect which nothing else could have wrought. The Aquitanians indeed knew the shame and peril of drawing weapon on one of Cercamon's profession. He whose point drew Cercamon's blood would never again be safe south of Garonne, though he surrounded himself with armed men every moment of his life. 

In single combat, in the cleared lists, or on the field of battle one might kill a troubadour without scruple, for that is fair fight; but to massacre a singer— One prince had done that, long ago; and nobles and kings had vied for the honor of slaying him. 

But the Parisians pressed on. Not yet had the north learned the singer's sanctity; and even priests have died for angering kings. Cercamon, standing at the table's end, had its poor shelter for so long as his point might keep their weight at bay. He stood poised on the balls of his feet, his point raised, waiting. 

But those about him were not all king's men; Thibault's vassals also were there. At a gesture from their lord they flung themselves in front of the troubadour. They came between him and the hungry French steel barely in time; already swords gleamed in the torchlight, and here and there the blades of Paris clashed with those of Blois. 

“Call off your cutthroats, my lord!” cried Thibault to the king. “Dares even the King of France do murder in my house?” 

Louis, pale with fury, was forced to call his men back. They withdrew reluctant, quivering with unleashed anger. But the outraged monarch was not ready to forego his vengeance for the slight to his chosen queen. Nor would she let him forget; she stood beside him, plucking at his velvet sleeve; and her beautiful features were twisted with fury. 

“Kill him!” she whispered, and Louis, nodding, turned to Thibault. 

“You hear?” he cried. “This pot-minstrel is the duchess' man, and she demands his death. He has affronted your king within your walls. Will you stand between him and his just punishment? By my father's soul, Thibault! If you protect him, you answer for it to me! Give me his life!” 

Cercamon stood waiting with unsheathed sword, his eyes on Thibault. The old count measured his royal master with a gaze like a roused lion's. At last he spoke, slowly, his words loud and full of majesty: 

“When you, my lord, insulted me over my own board; when this woman you have chosen to reign over us heaped her scorn on me and mine, did I demand your life or hers? Of all who have broken bread with me this day, only one dared speak in my defense—and he was my enemy, by whose wit alone the Duchess of Aquitaine has won her triumph. He, whom I would have slain had I had the chance, has risked his life to say that which I, your host, was bound not to say—but which was in my heart. You shall not have his life, nor shall any man lay hand on him within my territories!” 

Turning his back on the fuming monarch, Thibault of Champagne strode to Cercamon and took his hand. Then, calling his master of the garrison, he issued his orders so that they were heard by all: 

“Double the guard at the gate, and let no man of the king's, or of Aquitaine, issue forth for three hours! Bid a groom bring Cercamon's horse and grant him free passage. Make haste!” 

Cercamon glanced at Bertrand d'Armagnac, the master and friend whose favor at court and comradeship in the field had been so dear to him; and Armagnac nodded in approval of Thibault's words. But Armagnac said nothing, for he knew that the demon roused in Aliénor's breast would never be assuaged with less than the troubadour's death. 

Then Cercamon glanced at the king and saw him gnawing his fingers in helpless anger. Sheathing his sword, the troubadour strode between the ranks of men that fell back to give him passage, the Champenois grinning at him, the rest glaring their hate. At the door he paused, and swept a low bow to the Countess Alys. 

His horse was waiting at the drawbridge. The great gate was thronged with mailed men-at-arms, and as he passed between them, their friendly glances told him they had heard the news. Montivre, the master of the garrison and a man of noble birth, ran forward to hold the stirrup. But Cercamon put him gently aside, and shook his hand. 

“Now ride as if fiends were after you!” Montivre urged. “There will be no pursuit for three hours, that I promise you! The king dares not make war on my master, lest France shatter in his grasp!” 

Masterless, with half of France thirsting for his blood, Cercamon rode. Nor was he afraid, but rather glad, with the lure of new lands and new adventures calling him. Night, and three hours' grace—enough to bring him safely into Burgundy. Then south—far south, to Barcelona—that last, far-flung island of French life on Spanish soil. There he would find new glory and carve out a new career. 

He tossed his black locks back over his shoulders, and burst into song. 


[[file:P 157--Adventure mag 1923-02-10.png|450px|frameless|center]]

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[[Category:historical fiction]]
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[[Category:Thriller novellas]]
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[[Category:France]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The World as Will and Idea - Schopenhauer, tr. Haldane and Kemp - Volume 2.djvu/76</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4018454</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132097</id>
      <parentid>12505864</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:15:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1929" sha1="fd4r1cay41nu8jjx3vgy302o5666b2j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|66|CRITICISM OF THE KANTIAN PHILOSOPHY.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and no corresponding form of the understanding, is the ground of the assertion that perpetual motion is impossible.

Aristotle also denies reciprocity in the strict sense; for he remarks that two things may certainly be reciprocal causes of each other, but only if this is understood in a different sense of each of them; for example, that one acts upon the other as the motive, but the latter acts upon the former as the cause of its movement. We find in two passages the same words: Physic., lib. ii. c. 3, and Metaph., lib. v. c. 2. {{greek missing}} (''Sunt præterea quæ sibi sunt mutuo causæ, ut exercitium bonæ habitudinis, et hæc exercitii: at non eodem modo, sed hæc ut finis, aliud ut principium motus.'') If, besides this, he had accepted a reciprocity proper, he would have introduced it here, for in both passages he is concerned with enumerating all the possible kinds of causes. In the ''Analyt. post.,'' lib. ii. c. 11, he speaks of a circle of causes and effects, but not of reciprocity.

4. The categories of ''Modality'' have this advantage over all others, that what is expressed through each of them really corresponds to the form of judgment from which it is derived; which with the other categories is scarcely ever the case, because for the most part they are deduced from the forms of judgment with the most capricious violence.

Thus that it is the conceptions of the possible, the actual, and the necessary which occasion the problematic, assertatory, and apodictic forms of judgment, is perfectly true; but that those conceptions are special, original forms of knowledge of the understanding which cannot be further deduced is not true. On the contrary, they spring from the single original form of all knowledge, which is, therefore, known to us ''a priori,'' the principle of sufficient reason; and indeed out of this the knowledge of ''necessity''&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Pattern Drafting And Grading (1961).djvu/64</title>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The World as Will and Idea - Schopenhauer, tr. Haldane and Kemp - Volume 2.djvu/309</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4027286</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132103</id>
      <parentid>12535098</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:18:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
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      <minor />
      <origin>15132103</origin>
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      <text bytes="1758" sha1="ivqghdyo6wjm9383xplcz0c2b2kmvjp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||ON THE SYLLOGISM|299}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;figure, that the premisses must be of ''opposite quality;'' the one must affirm and the other deny. Therefore here the principal rule is: ''Sit altera negans;'' the corollary of which is: ''E meris affirmativis nihil sequiter;'' a rule which is sometimes transgressed in a loose argument obscured by many parenthetical propositions. The course of thought which this figure exhibits distinctly appears from what has been said. It is the investigation of two kinds of things with the view of distinguishing them, thus of establishing that they are ''not'' of the same species; which is here decided by showing that a certain property is essential to the one kind, which the other lacks. That this course of thought assumes the second figure of its own accord, and expresses itself clearly only in it, will be shown by an example:


All fishes have cold blood;
No whale has cold blood:
Thus no whale is a fish.


In the first figure, on the other hand, this thought exhibits itself in a weak, forced, and ultimately patched-up form:


Nothing that has cold blood is a whale;
All fishes have cold blood:
Thus no fish is a whale,
And consequently no whale is a fish.


Take also an example with an affirmative minor:


No Mohamedan is a Jew;
Some Turks are Jews:
Therefore some Turks are not Mohamedans.


As the guiding principle for this figure I therefore give, for the mood with the negative minor: ''Cui repugnat nota, etiam repugnat notatum;'' and for the mood with the affirmative minor: ''Notato repugnat id cui nota repugnat.'' Translated these may be thus combined: Two subjects which stand in opposite relations to one predicate have a negative relation to each other.

The third case is that in which we place two judgments&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The World as Will and Idea - Schopenhauer, tr. Haldane and Kemp - Volume 2.djvu/357</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4027441</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132095</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:14:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      <minor />
      <origin>15132095</origin>
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      <text bytes="2017" sha1="r9mwzkqniro8eg3b2f2zihv4h8rirt4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||ON THE USE OF REASON AND STOICISM.|347}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the present, by the assistance of imagination, as if it were past, and should thus accustom our apperception to the epistolary style of the Romans. Yet conversely we are very well able to regard what is long past as so vividly present that old emotions which have long been asleep are thereby reawakened in their full strength. Thus also no one would be irritated or disconcerted by a misfortune, a disappointment, if reason always kept present to him what man really is: the most needy of creatures, daily and hourly abandoned to innumerable misfortunes, great and small, {{greek missing}}, who has therefore to live in constant care and fear. Herodotus already says, &quot;{{greek missing}}&quot; (''homo totus est calamitas'').

The application of reason to practice primarily accomplishes this. It reconstructs what is one-sided and defective in knowledge of mere perception, and makes use of the contrasts or oppositions which it presents, to correct each other, so that thus the objectively true result is arrived at. For example, if we look simply at the bad action of a man we will condemn him; on the other hand, if we consider merely the need that moved him to it, we will compassionate him: reason, by means of its conceptions, weighs the two, and leads to the conclusion that he must be restrained, restricted, and curbed by a proportionate punishment.

I am again reminded here of Seneca's saying: ''&quot;Si vis tibi omnia subjicere, te subjice rationi.&quot;'' Since, however, as was shown in the fourth book, the nature of suffering is positive, and that of pleasure negative, he who takes abstract or rational knowledge as the rule of his conduct, and therefore constantly reflects on its consequences and on the future, will very frequently have to practise ''sustine et abstine,'' for in order to obtain the life that is most free from pain he generally sacrifices its keenest joys and pleasures, mindful of Aristotle's &quot;{{greek missing}}&quot; (''quod dolore vacat, non quod''&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The World as Will and Idea - Schopenhauer, tr. Haldane and Kemp - Volume 3.djvu/110</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4027630</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132082</id>
      <parentid>12535943</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:09:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15132082</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1903" sha1="riwdvswhteq5k5ifi99mq1ywvuyww0f" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|94|SECOND BOOK. CHAPTER XXVI.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I have satisfied the maxim: ''Est enim verum index sui et falsi.'' But Spinoza did not know how else to help himself but by the desperate stroke of denying teleology itself, thus design in the works of nature – an assertion the monstrosity of which is at once evident to every one who has gained any accurate knowledge of organised nature. This limited point of view of Spinoza, together with his complete ignorance of nature, sufficiently prove his entire incompetence in this matter, and the folly of those who, upon his authority, believe they must judge contemptuously of final causes.

Aristotle, who just here shows his brilliant side, contrasts very advantageously with these modern philosophers. He goes unprejudiced to nature, knows of no physico-theology such a thing has never entered his mind, – and he has never looked at the world for the purpose of seeing whether it was a bungled piece of work. He is in his heart pure from all this, for he also sets up hypotheses as to the origin of animals and men (''De generat. anim.,'' iii. 11) without lighting upon the physico-theological train of thought. He always says: &quot;{{greek missing}}&quot; (''natura facta est''). But after he has truly and diligently studied nature, he finds that it everywhere proceeds teleologically, and he says: &quot;{{greek missing}}&quot; (''naturam nihil frustra facere cernimus''), ''De respir.,'' c. 10; and in the books, ''De partibus animalium.,'' which are a comparative anatomy: &quot;{{greek missing}}&quot; (''Nihil supervacaneum, nihil frustra natura facit. – Natura rei alicujus gratia facit omnia. – Rem autem hanc esse illius gratia asserere ubique solemus, quoties finem intelligimus aliquem, in quern motus terminetur; quocirca ejusmodi aliquid esse constat, quod Naturam vocamus. Est enim corpus instrumentum: nam membrum'' {{hws|''unumquod''|''unumquodque''|title=unumquodque}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The World as Will and Idea - Schopenhauer, tr. Haldane and Kemp - Volume 3.djvu/111</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4027632</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132081</id>
      <parentid>12535945</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:08:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15132081</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2228" sha1="tohdzgezw8vdqw4frbjct4prhpxmjkq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||ON TELEOLOGY.|95}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|''que''|''unumquodque''|title=unumquodque}} ''rei alicujus gratia est, tum vero totum ipsum.'') At greater length, p. 633 and 645 of the Berlin quarto edition, and also ''De incessu animalium,'' c. 2: &quot;{{greek missing}}&quot; (''Natura nihil frustra facit, sed semper ex iis, quæ cuique animalium generis essentiæ contingunt, id quod optimum est.'') But he expressly recommends teleology at the end of the books ''De generatione animalium,'' and blames Democritus for having denied it, which is just what Bacon, in his prejudice, praises in him. Especially, however, in the &quot;Physica,&quot; ii. 8, p. 198, Aristotle speaks ''ex professo'' of final causes, and establishes them as the true principle of the investigation of nature. In fact, every good and regular mind must, in considering organised nature, hit upon teleology, but unless it is determined by the preconceived opinions, by no means either upon physico-theology or upon the anthropo-teleology condemned by Spinoza. With regard to Aristotle generally, I wish further to draw attention to the fact here, that his teaching so far as it concerns ''unorganised'' nature, is very defective and unserviceable, as in the fundamental conceptions of mechanics and physics he accepts the most gross errors, which is the less pardonable, since before him the Pythagoreans and Empedocles had been upon the right path and had taught much better. Empedocles indeed, as we learn from Aristotle's second book, ''De cælo'' (c. 1, p. 284), had already grasped the conception of a tangential force arising from rotation, and counteracting gravity, which Aristotle again rejects. Quite the reverse, however, is Aristotle's relation to the investigation of ''organised'' nature. This is his field; here the wealth of his knowledge, the keenness of his observation, nay, sometimes the depth of his insight, astonish us. Thus, to give just one example, he already knew the antagonism in which in the ruminants the horns and the teeth of the upper jaw stand to each other, on account of which, therefore, the latter are wanting where the former are found, and conversely (''De partib. anim.'', iii. 2). Hence then, also his correct estimation of final causes.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{larger|CHAPTER III.}}

ON THE SENSES. 
{{c/e}}

{{sc|It}} is not the object of my writings to repeat what has been said by others, and therefore I only make here some special remarks of my own on the subject of the senses.

The senses are merely the channels through which the brain receives from without (in the form of sensations) the materials which it works up into ideas of perception. Those sensations which principally serve for the objective comprehension of the external world must in themselves be neither agreeable nor disagreeable. This really means that they must leave the will entirely unaffected. Otherwise the sensation ''itself'' would attract our attention, and we would remain at the ''effect'' instead of passing to the ''cause,'' which is what is aimed at here. For it would bring with it that marked superiority, as regards our consideration, which the will always has over the mere idea, to which we only turn when the will is silent. Therefore colours and sounds are in themselves, and so long as their impression does not pass the normal degree, neither painful nor pleasurable sensations, but appear with the indifference that fits them to be the material of pure objective perception. This is as far the case as was possible in a body which is in itself through and through will; and just in this respect it is worthy of admiration. Physiologically it rests upon the fact that in the organs of the nobler senses, thus in sight and hearing, the nerves which have to receive the specific outward impression are quite insusceptible to any sensation of pain,&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rh|VOL. II.||N|class=__leafsig}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The World as Will and Idea - Schopenhauer, tr. Haldane and Kemp - Volume 3.djvu/415</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4028932</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132090</id>
      <parentid>12539647</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:13:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15132090</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1661" sha1="s6jtk04ia57e4mub09u2om9rq31afrq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh||THE VANITY AND SUFFERING OF LIFE.|399}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;beautiful poem preserved for us by Plutarch (''De audiend. poët, in fine'') this runs thus: –

{{ppoem|
&quot;{{greek missing}}&quot;

(''Lugere genitum, tanta qui intrarit mala:''
''At morte si quis finiisset miseriat'',
''Hunc laude amicos atque lætitia exsequi.'')
}}

It is not to be attributed to historical relationship, but to the moral identity of the matter, that the Mexicans welcomed the new-born child with the words, &quot;My child, thou art born to endure; therefore endure, suffer, and keep silence.&quot; And, following the same feeling, Swift (as Walter Scott relates in his Life of Swift) early adopted the custom of keeping his birthday not as a time of joy but of sadness, and of reading on that day the passage of the Bible in which Job laments and curses the day on which it was said in the house of his far her a man-child is born.

Well known and too long for quotation is the passage in the &quot;Apology of Socrates,&quot; in which Plato makes this wisest of mortals say that death, even if it deprives us of consciousness for ever, would be a wonderful gain, for a deep, dreamless sleep every day is to be preferred even to the happiest life.

A saying of Heraclitus runs: &quot;{{greek missing}}.&quot; (''Vitæ nomen quidem est vita, opus autem mors. Etymologicum magnum, voce'' {{greek missing}}; also ''Eustath. ad Iliad.,'' i. p. 31.)

The beautiful lines of the &quot;Theogony &amp;quot; are famous: –

{{ppoem|
&quot;{{greek missing}}&quot;

(''Optima sors homini natum non esse, nec unquam''
''Adspexitse diem, flammiferumgue jubar.''
''Alttra jam genitum demitti protinus Orco,''
''Et pressum multa mergere corpus humo.'')}}

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>s6jtk04ia57e4mub09u2om9rq31afrq</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The World as Will and Idea - Schopenhauer, tr. Haldane and Kemp - Volume 3.djvu/490</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4030076</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132092</id>
      <parentid>13746868</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:14:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15132092</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2373" sha1="fuu4wbvqeru08cdfytxmfgywx05uzar" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;8582e&quot; /&gt;{{rh|474|FOURTH BOOK. CHAPTER L.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Spinoza has deprived Him of nothing but personality. Thus, according to him also, the world and all in it is wholly excellent and as it ought to be: therefore man has nothing more to do than ''vivere, agere, suum Esse conservare ex fundamento proprium utile quærendi'' (''Eth.,'' iv. pr. 67); he is even to rejoice in his life as long as it lasts; entirely in accordance with Ecclesiastes ix. 7-10. In short, it is optimism: therefore its ethical side is weak, as in the Old Testament; nay, it is even false, and in part revolting.&lt;ref&gt;''Unusquisque tantum juris habet, quantum potentiâ valet'' (''Tract, pol.,'' c. 2 § 8). ''Fides alicui data tamdiu rata manet, quamdiu ejus, qui fidem dedit, non mutatur voluntas'' (''Ibid.'',  § 12). ''Umuscujusque jus potentiâ ejus definetur'' (''Eth.'' iv , pr. 37 ''schol'' 1.) Especially chap. 16 of the ''Tractatus theologico-politicus'' is the true compendium of the immorality of Spinoza's philosophy.&lt;/ref&gt; With me, on the other hand, the will, or the inner nature of the world, is by no means Jehovah, it is rather, as it were, the crucified Saviour, or the crucified thief, according as it resolves. Therefore my ethical teaching agrees with that of Christianity, completely and in its highest tendencies, and not less with that of Brahmanism and Buddhism. Spinoza could not get rid of the Jews; ''quo semel est imbuta recens servabit odorem.'' His contempt for the brutes, which, as mere things for our use, he also declares to be without rights, is thoroughly Jewish, and, in union with Pantheism, is at the same time absurd and detestable (''Eth.,'' iv., appendix, c. 27). With all this Spinoza remains a very great man. But in order to estimate his work correctly we must keep in view his relation to Descartes. The latter had sharply divided nature into mind and matter, ''i.e.,'' thinking and extended substance, and had also placed God and the world in complete opposition to each other; Spinoza also, so long as he was a Cartesian, taught all that in his ''&quot;Cogitatis Metaphysicis,&quot;'' c. 12, i. I., 1665. Only in his later years did he see the fundamental falseness of that double dualism; and accordingly his own philosophy principally consists of the indirect abolition of these two antitheses. Yet partly to avoid injuring his teacher, partly in order to be less offensive, he&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fuu4wbvqeru08cdfytxmfgywx05uzar</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Letter from Ho Chi Minh to President Harry S. Truman - NARA - 305263.tif</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4071811</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131667</id>
      <parentid>12698190</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:03:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1140" sha1="4057ea0ywzrgtzoqksc8ibkamliqv1y" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{left block|align=center|{{smaller|VIỆT-NAM DÂN CHỦ CỘNG HÒA}}
{{Rule|2em}}
{{fine|CHÍNH PHỦ LÂM THỜI}}
{{Rule|4em}}'''BO NGOAI GIAO'''&lt;br /&gt;'''*'''}}
{{float right|&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;HANOI FEBRUARY 28 1946}}
{{clear}}

{{center|TELEGRAM}}


PRESIDENT HOCHIMINH VIETNAM DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC HANOI&lt;br /&gt;
TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WASHINGTON D.C.


{{ti|4em|
ON BEHALF OF VIETNAM GOVERNMENT AND PEOPLE I BEG TO INFORM YOU THAT IN COURSE OF CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN VIETNAM GOVERNMENT AND FRENCH REPRESENTATIVES THE LATTER REQUIRE THE SECESSION OF COCHINCHINA AND THE RETURN OF FRENCH TROOPS IN HANOI STOP MEANWHILE FRENCH POPULATION AND TROOPS ARE MAKING ACTIVE PREPARATIONS FOR A COUP DE MAIN IN HANOI AND FOR MILITARY AGGRESSION STOP I THEREFORE MOST EARNESTLY APPEAL TO YOU PERSONALLY AND TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO INTERFERE URGENTLY IN SUPPORT OF OUR INDEPENDENCE AND HELP MAKING THE NEGOTIATIONS MORE IN KEEPING WITH THE PRINCIPLES OF THE ATLANTIC AND SAN FRANCISCO CHARTERS

RESPECTFULLY
}}

{{right block|HOCHIMINH&lt;br /&gt;[[File:Ho Chi Minh signature.jpg|Ho Chi Minh signature|200px]]|offset=4em}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references/&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4057ea0ywzrgtzoqksc8ibkamliqv1y</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:North Dakota Reports (vol. 3).pdf/185</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4077247</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133263</id>
      <parentid>12714642</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:27:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa, →  Iowa,</comment>
      <origin>15133263</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2275" sha1="1m72d21uw476ye3yvtyexlw5700spw1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;EthanRobertLee&quot; /&gt;{{running header||WASHBURN MILL COMPANY ''v''. BARTLETT.|145}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Pangborn v. Westlake, 36 Iowa, 546; Rahter v. Bank, 92 Pa. St. 393.
It has been held under statutes, prohibitory in form, but without
penalty, and silent as to consequences, such as ours heretofore
quoted, that all contracts entered into without compliance with
the terms of the statute were absolutely void. These cases are
based largely upon the thought that, inasmuch as there is no
penalty or forfeiture provided in the statute for a disregard of its
terms, there remains no method of its enforcement, other than to
declare all contracts made in disregard of the statutory provisions unenforceable. Bank v. Page, 6 Or. 431; Hacheny v. Leary,
12 Or. 40, 7 Pac. Rep. 329; in re Comstock, 3 Sawy. 218; Hoffman
v. Banks, 41 Ind. 1; Jnsurance Co. v. Harrah, 47 Ind. 236; Insurance
Co. v. Thomas, 46 Ind. 44; Assurance Co. v. Rosenthal, 55 Ill. 85.
Other cases arising, like those last noticed, under statutes prohibitory in form, but without penalty or expressed consequences,
have held that contracts entered into without compliance with
the terms of the statute were valid, enforceable contracts as
between the parties, and that one who had received and retained
the benefits of such a contract could not raise the question of
noncompliance. Bank v. Matthews, 98 U. S. 621, arose under that
provision in the national banking law permitting national banks
to purchase, hold, and convey real estate for certain specified
purposes, and no other. The bank had received real estate
security contrary to the terms of the act, and it was sought to
declare such security void in the hands of the bank. The court
said the prohibition was clearly implied, and as effectual as if it
were expressed; but, on full consideration and a review of the
authorities, it was held that the purpose of the statute was not to
render such contracts void and unenforceable. The court used
this language: “The intent, not the letter, of the statute constitutes the law. A court of equity is always reluctant in the last
degree to make a decree that will effect a forfeiture. The bank
parted with its money in good faith. Its garments are unspotted.
Under these circumstances, the defense of ''altra vires'', if it can be&lt;noinclude&gt;

N. D. R.—10.&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1m72d21uw476ye3yvtyexlw5700spw1</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:North Dakota Reports (vol. 3).pdf/199</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4077374</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133264</id>
      <parentid>12714895</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:27:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa, →  Iowa,</comment>
      <origin>15133264</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2250" sha1="bb7943f5h01f2r871miocmykp6xth04" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;EthanRobertLee&quot; /&gt;{{running header||NATIONAL BANK ''v''. LEMKE.|159}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;any statute by the legislative assembly shall not have the effect
to release or extinguish any penalty, forfeiture, or liability
incurred under such statute, unless the repealing act shall so
expressly provide; and such statute shall be treated as still
remaining in force, for the purpose of sustaining any proper
action or prosecution for the enforcement of such penalty, forfeiture, or liability.” Other states have substantially this same
provision. For a construction of the Indiana statute, see W. U.
Tel. Co. v. Brown, 108 Ind. 538, 8 N. E. Rep. 171. For Missouri
statute, see State v. Kansas City, etc., R. Co., 32 Fed. Rep. 722.
For Kentucky statute, see Com. v. Sherman, 85 Ky. 686, 4 S. W.
Rep. 790. In each of these cases the court enforces a penalty
incurred under a statute that had been repealed prior to the
time of the trial. The repealing statute of this state passed
in 1890 is silent as to the penalties incurred under the former
law. Hence, under this plain provision of § 4767, Comp. Laws,
appellant is not relieved from that penalty.

On the question of payment, the court instructed the jury that,
if they found that payments were made in wheat, they should
allow respondent the highest market price from the time of
delivery to the time of trial. This was clearly error. The court
had in mind a rule sometimes applied in cases of conversion, but
clearly foreign to this case. Appellant insists that for this error
the case must be reversed. When anerroncous instruction is given
an immediate presumption of prejudice arises, and the case
must be reversed, unless it is clear that such error, under the
facts, could have worked no prejudice to the complaining party.
McKay v. Leonard, 17 Iowa, 569; Hook, Adm'r v. Craghead, 35 Mo.
380; Freeman v. Rankins, 21 Me. 446, Hayne, New Trials, § 287,
and cases cited. It is equally certain that when the error could
work no injury to the complaining party the case will not be
reversed by reason thereof. Sce last citations. In the statement
of facts as heretofore made, we have cither taken facts about
which there was no dispute in the testimony, and which the jury
were bound to accept as true, or we have in every case taken&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bb7943f5h01f2r871miocmykp6xth04</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII.djvu/299</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4079939</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132240</id>
      <parentid>12751372</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:07:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>WereSpielChequers</username>
        <id>137020</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>start</comment>
      <origin>15132240</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2164" sha1="30ysmkna0hoj84it0xqes754b2sjrvq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Phe-bot&quot; /&gt;{{rh||THE STUDY OF HOLY SCRIPTURE.|293}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;integrity and authority of each book from internal indications alone. It is clear, on the other hand, that in historical 
questions, such as the origin and handing down of writings, 
the witness of history is of primary importance, and that 
historical investigation should be made with the utmost care; and that in this manner internal evidence is seldom of great value, except as confirmation. To look upon it in any other light will be to open the door to many evil consequences. It will make the enemies of religion much more bold and confident in attacking and mangling the sacred books; and this vaunted &quot;higher criticism&quot; will resolve itself into the reflection of the bias and the prejudice of the critics. It will not throw on the Scripture the light which is sought, or prove of any advantage to doctrine; it will only give rise to disagreement and dissension, those sure notes of error which the critics in question so plentifully exhibit in their own persons; and seeing that most of them are tainted with false philosophy and rationalism, it must lead to the elimination from the sacred writings of all prophecy and miracle, and of everything else that is outside the natural order. 

In the second place, we have to contend against those who, making an evil use of physical science, minutely scrutinize the sacred book in order to detect the writers in a mistake, and to take occasion to vilify its contents. Attacks of this kind, bearing as they do on matters of sensible experience, are peculiarly dangerous to the masses, and also to the young who are beginning their literary studies; for the young, if they lose their reverence for the Holy Scripture on one or more points, are easily led to give up believing in it altogether. It need not be pointed out how the nature of science, just as it is so admirably adapted to show forth the glory of the Great Creator, provided it is taught as it should be, so, if it be perversely imparted to the youthful intelligence, it may prove most fatal in destroying the principles of true philosophy and in the corruption of morality. Hence, to the professor of sacred&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>30ysmkna0hoj84it0xqes754b2sjrvq</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:North Dakota Reports (vol. 3).pdf/236</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4082773</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133265</id>
      <parentid>12731102</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:27:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BD2412</username>
        <id>1511</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa  →  Iowa</comment>
      <origin>15133265</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2114" sha1="b95rnriu1l6ek850dlh8cnj238lyuj9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;EthanRobertLee&quot; /&gt;{{running header|196|NORTH DAKOTA REPORTS.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Cobbey on Replevin, § § 977, 978 and 979; Hamer v. Hathaway,
33 Cal. 117; Blue Valley Bank v. Clement, 30 N W. Rep. 64. In
replevin the value of each item of property should be found
separately, as the whole may be returned or a part only in satisfaction of the judgment pro tanto. Cobbey on Replevin, § 1063.
Under an attachment the sheriff has no right to make use of the
property, and no right to damage for being deprived of its use.
Tandler v. Saunders, 22 N. W. Rep. 271; Broadwell v. Paradice,
81 Ill. 474; McArthur v. Howett, 72 Il. 359; Cobbey on Replevin,
§ 895.

The value of property at the time of the trial should be found
instead of its value at the time of its taking. Rowley v. Gibbs, 14
Johns. 385; Tuck v. Moses, 58 Me. 361; Boylston v. Davis, 70 N. C.
483; Burkeholder v. Rudrow, 19 Mo. App. 60; Mix v. Kepner, 81
Mo. 93; Allen v. Judson, 71 N. Y. 76; Pierce v. Vandike, 6 Hill 613;
Brewster v. Silliman, 38 N. Y. 423-9.

''Goodwin &amp; Van Pelt'' and ''Geo. D. Emery'', for respondent.

The mortgage contains no description of the property by which
it could be identified. No presumption arises from the execution
of the chattel mortgage, that the mortgagor owns the property—
nor that such property is in existence. Warner v. Wilson, 73
Iowa, 719, 36 N. W. Rep. 719.

The mortgage must not be indefinite and uncertain. “It must
indicate, suggest and direct inquiry whereby the property can be
identified.” Griffiths v. Wheeler, 2 Pac. Rep. 842; Smith v. McLean,
24 Iowa 322; Tolbert v. Horton, 33 Minn. 104. The individual
description of each separate item or class of chattels is fatally
defective. Barr v. Cannon, 69. Ia. 20, 28 N. W. Rep. 413; Eggert
v. White, 13 N. W. Rep. 426; Pennington v. Jones, 10 N. W. Rep.
274; Warner v. Wilson, 36 N. W. Rep. 719; Hayes v. Wilcox, 17 N.
WM. Rep. 110; Smith v. McLean, 24 1a. 322. As to the separator
no clue of identification is furnished by the mortgage. Leffel v.
Miller, 7 So. Rep. 324 Kellogg v. Anderson, 40 Minn. 207; Armsby
v. Nolan, 28 N. W. Rep. 569; Rhutassel v. Stevens, 27 N. W. Rep.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>b95rnriu1l6ek850dlh8cnj238lyuj9</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Index talk:Here and there in Yucatan - miscellanies (IA herethereinyucat00lepl 0).djvu</title>
    <ns>107</ns>
    <id>4082878</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131777</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:37:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>update to remove reference to deleted template</comment>
      <origin>15131777</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="458" sha1="c7rvm4zkd3jakjfu7xnc8f94zlxsj7z" xml:space="preserve">== Typography and formatting guidelines ==

* Chapter heading:
::{{tlp|pseudoheading|2=''title''}}
::{{tlp|Dropinitial|''initial''}}{{tlp|uc|''end of 1st word''}}
* Curly quotes replaced by straight quotes.
* No hyperlinks.
* No need of {{tl|hws}} when the hyphen is the last character of the text.
* Only one occurrence of {{tl|SIC}} for a word in a chapter.

[[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit|talk]]) 19:05, 8 November 2022 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c7rvm4zkd3jakjfu7xnc8f94zlxsj7z</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Index talk:Queen Moo's talisman; the fall of the Maya empire (IA queenmoostalisma00leplrich).djvu</title>
    <ns>107</ns>
    <id>4093499</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131781</id>
      <parentid>12789945</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:38:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>update to remove reference to deleted template</comment>
      <origin>15131781</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="741" sha1="kqgrpfxuro4sbqgtu1bncoyn8djcm1f" xml:space="preserve">== Formatting guidelines ==

* No need to use {{tl|hws}} when the hyphen is the last character of the text (see [[H:HYPHEN]]).
* Chapter heading:
::{{tlp|pseudoheading|2=''title''}}
::{{tlp|Largeinitial|''initial''}}{{tlp|uc|''end of 1st word''}}
* Curly quotes replaced by straight quotes if any.
* No hyperlinks.
* Móo : accute accent, sometimes missing in uppercase.
* Chicħen: the second ''h'' with stroke.
* All justification left.

[[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit|talk]]) 17:52, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

== Roman numbers ==

As their is less than 9 parts, roman numbers are compatible with alphabetic sort. [[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit|talk]]) 10:32, 27 November 2022 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Index talk:Undset - Jenny (1921).djvu</title>
    <ns>107</ns>
    <id>4101774</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131775</id>
      <parentid>12849940</parentid>
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      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>update to remove reference to deleted template</comment>
      <origin>15131775</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="447" sha1="rgd32x37i8umgg0ae9f2g260vm44psd" xml:space="preserve">== Formatting guidelines ==

* No need to use {{tl|hws}} and {{tl|hwe}} when the hyphen is the last character of the text (see [[H:HYPHEN]]).
* Chapter heading:
::{{tlp|pseudoheading|2=''chapter number''}}
::{{tlp|Dropinitial|''initial''}}{{tlp|uc|''end of 1st word''}}
* straight quotes, no curly quotes.
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[[User:M-le-mot-dit|M-le-mot-dit]] ([[User talk:M-le-mot-dit|talk]]) 11:34, 5 December 2022 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Elizabeth's Pretenders.djvu/204</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4106186</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132144</id>
      <parentid>12901868</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:31:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>spelling</comment>
      <origin>15132144</origin>
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      <text bytes="1430" sha1="ai50f58b5ddzyaxpivf74ub3rzxkhwg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Stellahk99&quot; /&gt;{{rh||Elizabeth's Pretenders|191}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;Yes, I know him. I am going to try if I can get into your pension myself.&quot;

&quot;''You?'' In our pension? Oh! Lord Robert, what on earth will you do there? We are nearly all hard workers there; busy all day long.&quot;

&quot;So shall I be. Think I can't work hard? Long wanted to stndy French jurisprudence. Slack time now. Not wanted by my constituency. Just fit in.&quot;

&quot;I am afraid you will not like the people at the pension.&quot;

&quot;Shan't I? What does it signify? I shall have you—and—Mr. George—to talk to.&quot;

&quot;I must tell you frankly you will see but little of ''me''. Except for my meals, I am rarely in the public rooms.&quot;

&quot;You will relax your rule a little in my favour, I hope. Who are you working with?&quot;

&quot;I have begun with Monsieur D{{longdash}}. His class is only just reopened. Hitherto I have been painting from models in Miss Baring's studio.&quot;

&quot;That girl? Much of a performer? Looks very ill.&quot;

&quot;She is delicate. A charming person, but she does not paint remarkably well. I must rejoin her. If you do come to our pension, may I ask you to say nothing about me? ''Nothing.'' Do you understand?&quot; Then, with a sudden and happy audacity, she added, &quot;I have escaped from Farley to avoid mercenary people, who made up to me because I am an heiress. I don't want the same thing to begin again here. I am supposed to have taken up painting as a profession. Will you remember that? Good-bye.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Elizabeth's Pretenders.djvu/197</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4119881</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132135</id>
      <parentid>12901819</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:28:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>spelling</comment>
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      <text bytes="1699" sha1="sst6413xqxszf5wessu6gaq1dtpqy49" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Stellahk99&quot; /&gt;{{rh|184|Elizabeth's Pretenders}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;when strangers were rare. A fatality willed that Hatty—it was about ten days after their return from Fontainebleau—should ask Elizabeth, to accompany her to the Luxembourg on this particular morning. It was the first time she was out since her severe cold; she did not feel strong enough to work in her atelier, but said she was just equal to crawl across the garden in the mid-day October sunshine after ''déjeuner'', and sit down opposite two or three of her favourite pictures for an hour or so. Alaric had gone to his work; but Mr. George, much to Miss Baring's annoyance, proposed to accompany the two ladies. Elizabeth, knowing her friend's dislike to the young Englishman, assured him they required no escort. When, however, he replied with the sweetest smile, &quot;Of course not; but will you not allow me to have the pleasure of seeing the pictures and discussing them with you?&quot;—what could she reply.

The air had the first touch of frost in it, though the sun shone still warmly among the red leaves which silently detached themselves from the boughs, and drifted down, turning the yellow gravel paths to crimson. The thin edge of the air made the American girl cough. By the time they had ascended the narrow stair which leads to the saloons of the old historic palace, she was exhausted, and sank down on the first seat.

&quot;Go on,&quot; she said to Elizabeth. &quot;Don't mind me. I will join you presently, when I am a little rested.&quot;

It was the first time since they left Fontainebleau that George found himself alone with the object of his quest. In public, he was cautious not to single her out for his attention. At table, and in the salon, he talked even&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Elizabeth's Pretenders.djvu/201</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4119883</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132139</id>
      <parentid>12901850</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:30:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>spelling</comment>
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      <text bytes="1519" sha1="f933bttsbmi3aprb9qbik058cklbll1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Stellahk99&quot; /&gt;{{rh|188|Elizabeth's Pretenders}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;as if to dismiss a subject she had no desire to pursue further, &quot;How beautiful is that 'Naïade' of Henner's! Not a mere realistic treatment of a model. The old painters thought like that. So do Watts and Burne-Jones. But most of these Frenchmen's so-called 'nymphs' are dreadful to me.&quot;

He did not reply. He had turned suddenly pale, and his eyes were fixed on a figure which bad just entered the gallery at the further end. Several visitors had come in just before. Miss Shaw's back was turned towards them all; she was absorbed in contemplation of Henner's &quot;Naïade.&quot; George recognized Lord Robert Elton instantly; he knew him well. He knew, too, his lordship's pursuit of Elizabeth. He divined at once the object which brought him to Paris. What was to be done? If Elton came up to them unprepared, discovery of George's secret was inevitable. With the rapidity of decision which might almost be called genius, he walked quickly down the room, and met Elton advancing towards him, his hand extended.

&quot;How are you, Mr. Daintree? Little thought to meet you in Paris.&quot;

&quot;I am here in a pension. Miss Shaw{{longdash}}&quot;

&quot;Is that Miss Shaw, with her back towards us?&quot;

&quot;Yes. Miss Shaw is in the same pension. But I am a stranger to her. She does not know my name. May I ask you, as a favour, not to mention it? To her I am 'Mr. George.' She would resent the idea of being watched over by any one. She wishes to remain absolutely unknown.&quot;

&quot;So I understand. Absurd! You are acting as a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Elizabeth's Pretenders.djvu/211</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4123125</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132180</id>
      <parentid>12908328</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:42:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <text bytes="1620" sha1="kfgawhh2vmzymse9zv5hzbhidzfkmrg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Alvinategyeka&quot; /&gt;{{rh|198|Elizabeth's Pretenders}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;new inmate has arrived to-day, who, judging by the expression of Miss Shaw's face, when she first saw him in a picture-gallery this morning, is not very welcome. What do you say to Lord Robert Elton? How did he learn Miss Shaw was in Paris? For I feel confident it is in pursuit of her he is come. Chance has befriended him. He happened to meet her, and has now secured a room in this pension. I believe you support his suit; but, to tell you the truth, I do not think he has the ghost of a chance. I hope to have a much better report of you in reply to this. But, whether you are better or not, let me repeat that I am ready to return at once, if you wire that you wish for me.
{{right|Your affectionate nephew,|6em}}{{right|&quot;{{sc|George Daintree}}.&quot;|2em}}


And in this he was quite sincere. All that he had he owed to his uncle, and he was really fond of the old man. This did not prevent his hatching a plot which he knew Mr. Twisden would never sanction. But it impelled him to write as he now did, offering to return at once; though, if this offer had not been prompted by genuine feeling, in the first instance, the wisdom of the serpent once again would have suggested, as it now ratified, the propriety of the step. The capture of Elizabeth was only a possibility; he did not deceive himself on this head. The succession to Mr. Twisden was a certainty, if he and his uncle remained on the close terms they were now on.

Madame Martineau was in the seventh heaven at her last remaining room being taken. In honour of the new boarder she put a fresh mauve riband into her cap, and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Elizabeth's Pretenders.djvu/212</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4123128</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132187</id>
      <parentid>12908330</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:44:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>spelling</comment>
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      <text bytes="1771" sha1="kdoo748qn3b8igw27rftpqpyvj4zn55" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Alvinategyeka&quot; /&gt;{{rh||Elizabeth's Pretenders|199}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ordered an extra ''plat doux'' for dinner. Before that meal, the intelligence had penetrated every room in the house, and had aroused curiosity to know what the new inmate was like. The men were disappointed, first, that it was not a woman, in that over-manned establishment; secondly, that it was another Englishman, in which patriotic sentiment Madame de Belcour joined, with affected enthusiasm. In reality, she cared not from what seas were the fish that came to her net. She had not captured either of the two English-speaking men who were boarders at Madame Martineau's, one of whom conspicuously avoided her; the other, while generally polite and agreeable, did not offer up to her the exact sort of incense her vanity and her passions craved. The inhabitants of ''perfide Albion'' were all alike cold-blooded, she affirmed, while nourishing a secret hope that the new-comer might prove an exception to the rule. She put on her pale blue dress, trimmed with ''chiffon'', which both Morin and Anatole Doucet had affirmed to be the most becoming of her many costumes. With the faintest touch of rouge (she was too clever to rouge persistently), and her keepsake air, she felt herself to be irresistible. But when Elton entered—''mon Dieu!'' what a blow! She liked height and strength in a man. What pleasure could there be in enslaving a creature like this, with narrow shoulders and undecided legs, surmounted by a keen, ugly face, glazed in with a ''pince-nez?'' Not thus had she pictured the physical man of this son of Albion. Mr. George was a far more desirable possession; and as to America's red-bearded representative, he had every personal requisite for a hero, in the lady's eyes. But this Mr. Elton{{longdash}}!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Elizabeth's Pretenders.djvu/213</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4123136</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132200</id>
      <parentid>14390464</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:49:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>spelling</comment>
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      <text bytes="1529" sha1="o94o5bvbb43cgqk2zt037kxnipcwaec" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Alvinategyeka&quot; /&gt;{{rh|200|Elizabeth's Pretenders}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;He sat between her and Professor Genron, who ceded with cynical alacrity his place at the lady's right. Elizabeth, consequently, was directly opposite to him. Miss Baring was too tired to appear at dinner, but her brother occupied his usual seat. Elton spoke French admirably, and not being afflicted with shyness, sent his snap-shots in every direction across the table. He avoided, with commendable tact, making Elizabeth the direct recipient of most of these shots, though, by ricochet, many of them struck her.

Madame Martineau had asked him, with her sweetest smile, if he knew Paris well.

&quot;Yes—the English quarter. Very little this side the river. Came here with a special object.&quot; Elizabeth winced inwardly, but he did not look at her, and turning to Genron, shot on rapidly, &quot;You are a professor at the Sorbonne, I understand? I want to know something of French law. Any lectures there I can attend?&quot;

''Genron.'' &quot;Certainly; but Monsieur Bertrand, the young man at the further end of the table, can tell you more about them. He is a law-student.&quot;

''Elton'' (''looking down the table and catching Bertrand's eye''). &quot;Perhaps you will be good enough to give me some information by-and-by. French oratory remarkable—Berryer unsurpassed. We English, with few exceptions, poor orators.&quot;

''George'' (''smiling as he leans forward''). &quot;We know exceptions, do we not, Miss Shaw?&quot;

''Genron'' (''sarcastically''). &quot;The English are a silent people; their tongues seem mostly tied.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Elizabeth's Pretenders.djvu/218</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4123148</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132264</id>
      <parentid>12908346</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:16:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>spelling</comment>
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      <text bytes="1532" sha1="2keze3kzzx1ogkupqedspk6ykztdf8t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Alvinategyeka&quot; /&gt;{{rh||Elizabeth's Pretenders|205}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''Morin.'' &quot;We must be grateful to those events, madame. Had you gone, you would have stayed, and we should have been the losers. Mademoiselle comes here&quot; (''turning to Elizabeth with a smile''), &quot;and she likes us so much she means to remain.&quot;

''Elton'' (''with a sharp little laugh like a bark''). &quot;England may have a word to say to that, monsieur! We cannot allow you to carry off all our prizes, as well as to retain your own.&quot;

Elizabeth sent one sharp glance at him across the table, and began folding up her napkin. The dinner was, indeed, over; the lamp was lit in the salon. Madame rose, and they all filed out. Once there, Elton cornered the object of his pursuit, and held her in conversation until she broke away, at the end of half an hour.


On these lines, and to this extent, more or less, was their intercourse twice every day daring the next week. Do what he would, Lord Robert could obtain no more. He was exasperated. George, on the other hand, played what I believe is called a &quot;waiting game.&quot; He was satisfied that there was no danger to be apprehended from the enterprising young politician. If he had only time given him—time, without the introduction of any disturbing element—he was sanguine of success. But, unfortunately, time was just what he was not sure of. The accounts he received of his uncle were very much the same. He was no worse, but he was no better. If there was no improvement at the end of the week, Mr. Twisden would telegraph for his nephew.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 30.djvu/11</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4153030</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132711</id>
      <parentid>13001477</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:35:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>tweaks</comment>
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      <text bytes="4176" sha1="jaqiu1xfnd66ktytl0kg7spr8eatdd7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{x-larger|CONTENTS.}}


{{rule|8em}}


{{larger|TRANSACTIONS.}}}}


{{rule|5em}}


{|
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|I.—{{sc|Miscellaneous.}}
|-
| || || ||{{ts|sm}}|{{gap|5em}}PAGES.
|-
|{{ts|vtt|sc}}|Art.||{{ts|ar|vtt}}|I.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 1|On Material and Scientific Progress in New Zealand pages during the Victorian Era.]] By [[Author:William Thomas Locke Travers|W. T. L. Travers]], F.L.S.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|1–23
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|II.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 2|On Rock Pictographs in South Canterbury.]] By [[Author:Augustus Hamilton|A. Hamilton]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|24–29
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|III.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 3|Did the Maori discover the Greenstone?]] By [[Author:Joshua Rutland|Joshua Rutland]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|29–32
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|IV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 4|Tuhoe Land: Notes on the Origin, History, Customs, and Traditions of the Tuhoe or Urewera Tribe.]] By [[Author:Elsdon Best|Elsdon Best]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|33–41
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|V.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 5|The Building of Hotunui, Whare Whakairo, W. H. Taipari's Carved House at Thames, 1878.]] Told by [[Author:Mereana Mokomoko|Mereana Mokomoko]], Widow of the late Chief W. H. Taipari, to Gilbert Mair, 12th July, 1897||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|41–44
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|VI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 6|The Insulation of Cold Stores.]] By Professor [[Author:Frederick Douglas Brown|F. D. Brown]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|44–49
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|VII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 7|Thoughts on Comparative Mythology.]] By [[Author:Edward Robert Tregear|Edward Tregear]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|50–65
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|VIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 8|The State Prevention of Consumption.]] By [[Author:Ernest Roberton|E. Roberton]], M.D.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|66–79
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|IX.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 9|The Tides, Currents, and the Moon.]] By [[Author:W. Buchanan|W. Buchanan]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|79–87
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|X.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 10|Marsh-lights.]] By [[Author:Robert Coupland Harding|R. Coupland Harding]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|87–93
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 11|Under the Southern Cross; or, Life in the South Seas: Fairy Tales and Folk-lore.&lt;ref&gt;The title printed at head of the article is &quot;On the Outlying Islands.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt;]] By [[Author:Frederick William Christian|F. W. Christian]], B. A.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|93–109
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 12|On the Influence of the Ideal.]] By [[Author:Edward Augustus Mackechnie|E. A. Mackechnie]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|109–118
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 13|On an Objection to Le Sage's Theory of Gravitation.]] By [[Author:Clinton Coleridge Farr|C. Coleridge Farr]], B. Sc.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|118–120
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XIV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 14|On the Magnetic Force parallel to the Axis in the Interior of Solenoids.]] [Abstract.] By C. Coleridge Farr||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|121
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 15|Upon a Common Vital Force.]] By [[Author:Coleman Phillips|Coleman Phillips]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|122–130
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XVI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 16|On Maori Stone Implements.]] By Captain [[Author:Frederick Wollaston Hutton|Hutton]], F.R.S.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|130–134&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}

{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 30.djvu/12</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <text bytes="5732" sha1="sieixkxyp4q163x7y3uzv3zpp2lvp3r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;{{rh|vi|''Contents.''}}
{|
|{{sc|Art.}}|| || ||{{ts|sm|ar}}|PAGES&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|II.—{{sc|Zoology}}.
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XVII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 17|The Grasshoppers and Locusts of New Zealand and the Kermadec Islands.]] By Captain [[Author:Frederick Wollaston Hutton|F. W. Hutton]], F.R.S., Curator of the Canterbury Museum, Christchurch||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|135–150
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XVIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 18|Note on the Ancient Maori Dog.]] By Captain F. W. Hutton||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|151–155
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XIX.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 19|On a Collection of Insects from the Chatham Islands, with Descriptions of Three New Species.]] By Captain F. W. Hutton||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|155–160
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XX.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 20|On the ''Phasmidæ'' of New Zealand.]] By Captain F. W. Hutton||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|160–166
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 21|Synopsis of the Hemiptera of New Zealand which have been described previous to 1896.]] By Captain F. W. Hutton||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|167–187
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 22|Notes on New Zealand Starfishes.]] By [[Author:Henry Alexander Russell Farquhar|H. Farquhar]]. Communicated by E. Lukins||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|187–191
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 23|A List of Recent and Fossil Bryozoa collected in Various Parts of New Zealand.]] By [[Author:Augustus Hamilton|A. Hamilton]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|192–199
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXIV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 24|On the Hydroids of the Neighbourhood of Dunedin.]] By [[Author:Frederick William Hilgendorf|F. W. Hilgendorf]], M.A.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|200–218
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 25|On the Occurrence of ''Pedicellina'' in New Zealand.]] By F. W. Hilgendorf||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|218
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXVI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 26|Further Coccid Notes: with Description of New Species, and Discussion of Points of Interest.]] By [[Author:William Miles Maskell|W. M. Maskell]], Registrar of the University of New Zealand, Corr. Mem. Roy. Soc. of South Australia||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|219–252
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXVII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 27|Notes on ''Regalecus'' Sp.]] By [[Author:Samuel Henry Drew|S. H. Drew]], F.L.S.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|253–254
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXVIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 28|Notes on Occurrence of ''Regalecus argenteus'' on the Taranaki Coast.]] By [[Author:Frank Edward Clarke|F. E. Clarke]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|254–266
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXIX.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 29|Notes on Acclimatisation in New Zealand.]] By [[Author:Alexander Bathgate|A. Bathgate]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|266–279
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXX.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 30|Notes on Bird-life in the West Coast Sounds.]] By [[Author:Richard Henry|Richard Henry]]. Communicated by Sir J. Hector||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|279–293
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXXI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 31|A Romance of Samoan Natural History; or, Records relating to the Manu Mea, or Red Bird of Samoa, now nearly, if not quite, extinct.]] By the Rev. [[Author:John Bettridge Stair|John B. Stair]], late Vicar of St. Arnaud, Victoria, formerly of Samoa. Communicated by E. Tregear, F.R.G.S.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|293–303
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXXII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 32|On Rats, and their Nesting in Small Branches of Trees.]] By [[Author:Taylor White|Taylor White]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|303–309
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXXIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 33|Notes on ''Patellidæ'', with reference to Species found on the Rocks at Island and Lyall's Bays.]] By [[Author:William Thomas Locke Travers|W. T. L. Travers]], F.L.S.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|309–312
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXXIV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 34|Notes on New Zealand Sponges: Fourth Paper.]] By [[Author:Harry Borrer Kirk|H. B. Kirk]], M.A.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|313–316
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXXV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 35|On the Sponges described in Dieffenbach's &quot;New Zealand.&quot;]] By [[Author:Arthur Dendy|Arthur Dendy]], D.Sc, Professor of Biology in the Canterbury College, University of New Zealand||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|316–320
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXXVI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 36|Notes on a Remarkable Collection of Marine Animals lately found on the New Brighton Beach, near Christchurch, New Zealand.]] By Arthur Dendy||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|320–326
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXXVII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 37|A Synonymic List of the ''Lepidoptera'' of New Zealand.]] By [[Author:Richard William Fereday|Richard W. Fereday]], F.E.S.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|326–377&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{|
|{{sc|Art.}}|| || ||{{ts|sm|ar}}|PAGES&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
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|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|III.-{{sc|Botany}}.
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXXVIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 38|Description of a New Species of ''Drimys''.]] By [[Author:Thomas Kirk|T. Kirk]], F.L.S.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|379–380
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XXXIX.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 39|Remarks on ''Gunnera'' &quot;''ovata'',&quot; Petrie, and ''G. flavida'', Colenso, in Reply to Mr. Petrie.]] By T. Kirk||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|380–381
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XL.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 40|On New Australian and New Zealand Lichens.]] By [[Author:James Stirton|James Stirton]], M.D., F.L.S. Communicated by T. W. Naylor Beckett, F.L.S.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|382–393
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XLI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 41|A New Classification of the Genus ''Pyxine'']]. By Dr. James Stirton. Communicated by T. W. Naylor Beckett, F.L.S.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|393–398
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XLII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 42|New Zealand ''Musci:'' Notes on a New Species of Moss belonging to the Genus ''Seligera''.]] By [[Author:Robert Brown (1824-1906)|R. Brown]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|398–399
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XLIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 43|New Zealand ''Musci:'' Notes on the Genus ''Tortula'', with Descriptions of New Species.]] By R. Brown||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|399–409
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XLIV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 44|New Zealand ''Musci:'' Notes on the Genus ''Streptopogon'', Wills, with Description of a New Species.]] By R. Brown||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|409–410
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XLV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 45|New Zealand ''Musci:'' Notes on New Genus ''Dendia''.]] By R. Brown||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|411–412
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XLVI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 46|Notes on New Zealand ''Musci'', and Descriptions of Two New Species.]] By R. Brown||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|412–414
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XLVII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 47|On the Botany of Hikurangi Mountain.]] By [[Author:James Adams|James Adams]], B.A.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|414–433
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XLVIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 48|Description of a New Native Species of ''Coprosma''.]] By [[Author:Donald Petrie|D. Petrie]], M.A., F.L.S.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|433–434
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|XLIX.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 49|On Curious Forms of New Zealand Fern.]] By [[Author:Henry Claylands Field|H. C. Field]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|434–435
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|L.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 50|On the Freezing of New Zealand Alpine Plants: Notes of an Experiment conducted in the Freezing-chamber, Lyttelton.]] By [[Author:Leonard Cockayne|L. Cockayne]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|435–442
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 51|Notes on the Wangapeka Valley, Nelson.]] By [[Author:Robert Ingpen Kingsley|R. I. Kingsley]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|442–444
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|IV.—{{sc|Geology}}.
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 52|Notes on a Specimen of ''Euryapteryx'' from Southland.]] By [[Author:Augustus Hamilton|A. Hamilton]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|445–446
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 53|Notes on the Recent Earthquake.]] By [[Author:Henry Claylands Field|H. C. Field]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|447–457
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|V.—{{sc|Physics}}.
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LIV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 54|On the Screening of Electro-motive Force in the Fields produced by Leyden-jar Discharges.]] By [[Author:John Angus Erskine|J. A. Erskine]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|459–462
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 55|On the Relative Commercial Values of Pumice and Charcoal for Purposes of Insulation.]] By [[Author:W. T. Firth|W. T. Firth]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|463–465
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LVI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 56|Notes on the Vertical Component of the Motions of the Earth's Atmosphere.]] By Major-General [[Author:Henry Schaw|Schaw]], C.B. (late R.E.)||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|465–476
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LVII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 57|The Histories of the Storms of the 30th January and the 16th April, 1897.]] By Major-General Schaw||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|477–486&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{|
|{{sc|Art.}}|| || ||{{ts|sm|ar}}|PAGES&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
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|{{gap}}
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|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|VI.—{{sc|Chemistry}}.
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LVIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 58|On the Distillation Products of the Blackball Coal.]] By Dr. [[Author:William Percival Evans|W. P. Evans]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|487–494
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LIX.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 59|On a Convenient Form of Oil-bath for studying the Influence of Definite Temperatures on Solids.]] By Dr. W. P. Evans||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|495–496
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LX.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 60|On the Error introduced by using a Coal-gas Flame while determining the Percentage of Sulphur in Coals, with Especial Reference to the Methods &quot;Eschka&quot; and &quot;Nakamura.&quot;]] By Dr. W. P. Evans||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|496–497
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LXI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 61|On an Improved Adjustable Drip-proof Bunsen Burner.]] By Dr. W. P. Evans||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|497–498
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LXII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 62|On the Electro-deposition of Gold upon the Gold of our Drifts.]] By [[Author:William Skey|William Skey]], Analyst to the Department of Mines||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|498–509
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LXIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 63|On the Decomposition of Water by Tannic Acid in Conjunction with an Alkali.]] By William Skey||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|509–510
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LXIV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 64|On the Liberation of Hydrogen in a certain Variation of the Apparatus used for cyaniding Gold.]] By William Skey||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|510–512
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LXV.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 65|On the Rapid Action of Strong Cyanide Solutions on Gold superficially.]] By William Skey||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|512–513
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|VII.—{{sc|Addenda}}.
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LXVI.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 66|On the Hawke's Bay Plain: Past and Present.]] By [[Author:Henry Thomas Hill|H. Hill]], B.A., F.G.S.||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|515–531
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LXVII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 67|On Swallows and Martins at Hicks Bay.]] By H. Hill||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|532
|-
| ||{{ts|ar|vtp}}|LXVIII.||[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 68|On Maori Middens at Wainui, Poverty Bay.]] By [[Author:F. Hutchinson, jun.|F. Hutchinson]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|533–536
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4|{{rule|4em}}
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/New Zealand Institute|{{larger|{{sp|NEW ZEALAND INSTITUTE}}.}}]]
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/New Zealand Institute#Report|Twenty-ninth Annual Report]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|593–595
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/New Zealand Institute#Accounts|Accounts for 1896–97]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|595
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4|{{rule|4em}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
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{|
| || || ||{{ts|sm|ar}}|PAGES&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|{{larger|{{sp|PROCEEDINGS}}.}}
|-
|colspan=4|{{rule|4em}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society|WELLINGTON PHILOSOPHICAL SOCIETY.]]
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Exhibit1|Exhibit of ''Histiopterus labiosus;'' New Zealand Pigeon; &amp;c.]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|546
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Christian|Remarks on the Manu Mea (Red Bird of Samoa).]] By [[Author:Frederick William Christian|F. W. Christian]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|548
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Barker1|Demonstration of Pathological Specimens, illustrating Diseases of Domesticated Animals.]] By [[Author:G. Heriot Barker|G. H. Barker]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|550–551
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Hector1|On a Specimen of ''Xiphias gladius'', the Northern Swordfish.]] By Sir [[Author:James Hector|J. Hector]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|551–552
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Hector2|Description of Recent Earthquakes, especially that of 21st September.]] By Sir J. Hector||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|552
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Exhibit2|Exhibit of New Zealand Quail]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|552
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Travers1|Remark on Earthquake of 21st September.]] By [[Author:William Thomas Locke Travers|W. T. L. Travers]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|552
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Nomination|Nomination of Elector of Governors of the Institute]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|553
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Travers2|Remarks on Mr. Harding's Paper on Will-o'-the-wisps.]] By W. T. L. Travers||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|553
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Barker2|On the Industries of Animals.]] By G. Heriot Barker||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|553–554
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Hector3|Remarks on a Skeleton of a Sea-leopardess.]] By Sir J. Hector||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|555
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Hector4|Remarks on ''Scorpio afer''.]] By Sir J. Hector||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|556
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Hector5|Remarks on ''Parmophorus unguis''.]] By Sir J. Hector||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|556
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Hector6|Remarks on a Tooth of ''Pseudoscarus'' sp.]] By Sir J. Hector||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|556
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Mestayer1|Remarks on Formol.]] By Mr. [[Author:Richard Liron Mestayer|Mestayer]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|556
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Election1|Election of a Governor of the Institute]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|557
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Hector7|Remarks on a Skeleton of a Sea-lioness.]] By Sir J. Hector||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|557
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Report|Abstract of Annual Report]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|558–559
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Election2|Election of Officers for 1898]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|559
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Hawthorne|Criticism of Mr. P. Marshall's Paper on ''Dodonidia helmsi'', in Vol. xxviii.]] By [[Author:E. F. Hawthorne|E. F. Hawthorne]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|559–560
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Kirk|On ''Solanum hamiltonii''.]] By [[Author:Thomas Kirk|T. Kirk]], F.L.S.||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|561
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Wellington Philosophical Society#Mestayer2|Exhibit of Chitons collected by Miss Mestayer]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|561
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Auckland Institute|AUCKLAND INSTITUTE.]]
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Auckland Institute#Roberton|Remarks on the Museum.]] Inaugural Address by [[Author:Ernest Roberton|E. Roberton]], M.D., President||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|562
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Auckland Institute#TalbotTubbs|&quot;A,&quot; a Passage in Archaeology.]] By Professor [[Author:Henry Arthur Talbot Tubbs|Talbot-Tubbs]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|562
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Auckland Institute#Montgomery|On Ore-deposits.]] By [[Author:Alexander Montgomery (1862-1933)|A. Montgomery]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|563
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Auckland Institute#Marshall|On Insect Life in Gardens.]] By [[Author:Patrick Marshall|P. Marshall]], F.E.S.||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|563
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Auckland Institute#Brown|On &quot;The Ether.&quot;]] By Professor [[Author:Frederick Douglas Brown|F. D. Brown]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|564
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Auckland Institute#Thomas|On Corals and Coral Reefs.]] By Professor [[Author:Algernon Phillip Withiel Thomas|A. P. Thomas]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|564
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Auckland Institute#Report|Abstract of Annual Report]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|564–567
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Auckland Institute#Election|Election of Officers for 1898]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|567
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury|PHILOSOPHICAL INSTITUTE OF CANTERBURY.]]
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Mathew|On the Science of History.]] By Professor [[Author:Edward Jermyn Mathew|E. J. Mathew]], M.A., LL.B.||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|568
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Laing|On Some New Zealand Seaweeds.]] By [[Author:Robert Malcolm Laing|R. M. Laing]], M.A.||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|568
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Cockayne|Exhibit of Winter-flowering Iris and Hybrid Hellebore]] by [[Author:Leonard Cockayne|L. Cockayne]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|569
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Seagar|On the Evolution of Art.]] By [[Author:Samuel Hurst Seagar|S. Hurst Seagar]], A.R.I.B.A.||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|570
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Dendy|Remarks on the Marsupial Mole (''Notoryctes typhlops'').]] By Professor [[Author:Arthur Dendy|Dendy]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|570&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 30.djvu/16</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4154023</id>
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{|
| || || ||{{ts|sm|ar}}|PAGES&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Hutton|Remarks on Palæolithic Implements from Africa.]] By Captain [[Author:Frederick Wollaston Hutton|Hutton]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|571
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Dendy2|Remarks on ''Limulus polyphemus''.]] By Professor Dendy||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|571
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Resolution1|Resolution regarding the late Mr. Thomas Kirk, F.L.S.]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|571
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Cookson|Description of Minerals from West Australia.]] By [[Author:Crackenthorpe John Wentworth Cookson|C. J. Wentworth Cookson]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|571
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Resolution2|Resolution regarding the late Professor T. Jeffery Parker, F.R.S. (in Report)]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|572
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Report|Abstract of Annual Report]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|572–573
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Election|Election of Officers for 1898]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|573
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Philosophical Institute of Canterbury#Thomas|Hypnotism: Presidential Address]]. By Dr. [[Author:Walter Thomas|Thomas]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|573
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute|OTAGO INSTITUTE.]]
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Resignation|Resignation of the President]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|574
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Byelection|By-election of Officers]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|574
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Parker1|Remarks on a Skeleton of ''Harpagornis''.]] By Professor [[Author:Thomas Jeffery Parker|Parker]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|574
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Parker2|Some Chapters in the History of Zoology.]] By Professor Parker||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|574
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Parker3|Remarks on ''Regalecus argenteus''.]] By Professor Parker||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|574–575
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Parker4|Remarks on ''Haplodactylus meandratus''.]] By Professor Parker||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|575
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Parker5|On the Armour of the Kingsmill Islanders.]] By Professor Parker||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|575
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Parker6|On a Mask from New Britain.]] By Professor Parker||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|575
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Parker7|Notes on a Specimen of the Scaled Tunny (''Lepidothynnus huttoni'').]] By Professor Parker||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|675
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Hamilton1|Description of Ancient and Modern Gems and Medals, including the Gemma Augusta.]] By [[Author:Augustus Hamilton|A. Hamilton]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|575–576
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Thomson1|Notes on New Zealand Fisheries.]] By [[Author:George Malcolm Thomson|G. M. Thomson]], F.L.S.||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|576
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Thomson2|Recent Researches on ''Anaspides''.]] By G. M. Thomson||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|580
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Exhibit|Exhibit and Description of ''Munida subrugosa'']]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|580
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Hamilton2|On ''Cnemiornis calcitrans'' and ''C. minor''.]] By A. Hamilton||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|581
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Tennant|On Some New Zealand Fresh-water Algæ.]] By [[Author:John Smaillie Tennant|J. S. Tennant]], B.A., B.S.||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|681
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Smith|On Some Seaweeds from Dunedin.]] By [[Author:Joseph Crosby Smith|J. Crosbie Smith]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|581
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Resultion|Resolution regarding the late Professor T. Jeffery Parker, F.R.S.]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|581–582
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Thomson3|Notes on the New Zealand ''Brachyura''.]] By G. M. Thomson||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|582
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Thomson4|A Revision of the New Zealand ''Anomoura''.]] By G. M. Thomson||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|582
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Smith2|On a New Marine Alga (''Nitophyllum microphylla'').]] By J. Crosbie Smith||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|582
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Report1|Abstract of Annual Report]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|582–583
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Report2|Report of the Committee on the Proposed Marine Fish-hatchery]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|583–584
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Election|Election of Officers for 1898]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|584
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Otago Institute#Shand|On the Undulations of the Ether.]] Presidential Address by Professor [[Author:Alexander Shand|Shand]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|584
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute|HAWKE'S BAY PHILOSOPHICAL INSTITUTE.]]
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#Moore|Inaugural Address: On the Civilisation of the Saracens, and what we owe to them.]] By [[Author:Thomas Charles Moore|T. C. Moore]], M.D., President||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|585
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#Tanner|On the Sun as a Star, and its Place in the Heavens.]] By [[Author:T. Tanner|T. Tanner]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|585
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#Jarvis|On Germs and their Relation to Disease.]] By Dr. [[Author:J. H. E. Jarvis|J. H. E. Jarvis]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|585
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#Dinwiddie|On the Illustration of Books.]] By [[Author:William Dinwiddie|W. Dinwiddie]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|586
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#White1|The Fleeing Maru-iwi walk over Glenshea Cliffs at night.]] By [[Author:Taylor White|Taylor White]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|586
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#White2|Have we Remains of a Swimming Swan like Moa?]] By Taylor White||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|586
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#White3|The Ceremony of Rahui.]] By Taylor White||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|586
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#White4|Moa—the Bird and the Tree.]] By Taylor White||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|586
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#Leahy|The Customs of the Australian Aborigines.]] By Dr. [[Author:John Patrick Daunt Leahy|Leahy]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|586&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <ns>104</ns>
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{|
| || || ||{{ts|ar|sm}}|PAGES&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#Adams1|A Comparison of New Zealand and Australian Mortality.]] By [[Author:Charles Edward Adams|C. E. Adams]], B.Sc., A.I.A.||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|586
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#Adams2|A Comparison of the Mortality in New Zealand from 1850–70, and from 1870–90.]] By C. E. Adams||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|586
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#MilneThompson|The Röntgen Rays.]] By [[Author:Alexander Milne-Thompson|A. Milne-Thompson]], M.B., C.M.||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|586
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#Report|Abstract of Annual Report]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|587
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Hawke's Bay Philosophical Institute#Election|Election of Officers for 1898]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|587
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Westland Institute|WESTLAND INSTITUTE.]]
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Westland Institute#Report|Abstract of Annual Report]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|588
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Westland Institute#Election|Election of Officers for 1898]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|588
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Nelson Philosophical Society|NELSON PHILOSOPHICAL SOCIETY.]]
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Nelson Philosophical Society#List|List of Donations]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|589
{{nopt}}
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Nelson Philosophical Society#Report|Abstract of Annual Report]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|589–590
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Nelson Philosophical Society#Election|Election of Officers for 1898]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|590
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Nelson Philosophical Society#Proposal|Proposal to amalgamate with Nelson Institute]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|590
|-
|{{gap}}
|-
|colspan=4|{{rule|5em}}
|-
|colspan=4 {{ts|ac}}|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix|{{larger|APPENDIX.}}]]
|-
|colspan=4|{{rule|3em}}
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix#Meteorological|Meteorological Statistics for 1897]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|593
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix#Weather|Notes on the Weather for 1897]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|594
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix#Earthquakes|Earthquakes reported in New Zealand during 1896]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|595
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix#Honorary|Honorary Members of the New Zealand Institute]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|596
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix#Ordinary|Ordinary Members of the New Zealand Institute]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|597–605
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix#Institutions|Institutions and Individuals to whom this Volume is presented]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|606–610
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix#Index|Alphabetical Index]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|611–615
|-
|colspan=4|{{rule|3em}}
|-
|colspan=3|[[#v|Contents]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|v.–xi.
|-
|colspan=3|[[#xi|List of Plates]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|xiii.
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix#Governors|Board of Governors of the New Zealand Institute]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|xv.
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix#Rules|Abstract of Rules and Statutes of the New Zealand Institute]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|xv.–xvii.
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix#Roll|Roll of Incorporated Societies]]||{{ts|ar|vbm}}|xviii.
|-
|colspan=3|[[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Appendix#Officers|Officers of Incorporated Societies, and Extracts from the Rules]]||{{ts|ar|wnw|vbm}}|xviii.–xxi.
|}


{{rule|12em}}{{rule|12em}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:&quot;Round the world.&quot; - Letters from Japan, China, India, and Egypt (IA roundworldletter00fogg 0).pdf/165</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4201372</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131776</id>
      <parentid>13159692</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:37:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ Full proofread</comment>
      <origin>15131776</origin>
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      <text bytes="2384" sha1="i9a5mv7s5mfx9k5i3xcuv8ubhixdh4o" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|133}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the neighborhood we have seen ''dorians''
growing upon large trees and piled up for
sale in the market. It is oval in shape,
a third larger than the pineapple, and
greenish-yellow in color. We selected three
fine specimens, and sent them on board
with our baskets of fruits. As they are
brought on deck the Captain sniffs the air
and calls out, “take them d—d dorians forward.”

The next day at eleven o'clock is the time
fixed for the trial. A majority of our passengers
are English, but the few Americans
on board are ready to back their national
champion. The Secretary of the Russian
Legation at Pekin Is selected as umpire, and
the preliminary arrangements are very
simple. On the main deck, just forward of
the engines, is a small table, on which is
placed a dorian, a knife and two teaspoons.
Beside the table are two chairs for the principal
actors. The conditions are that neither
champion shall have the right of ''holding
his nose'' during the contest. At the
given hour the table is surrounded by all the
passengers and most of the officers of the
ship. The question arises who shall cut the
dorian? Umpire declines and the steward
volunteers. The fruit is severed length
wise, disclosing a white, custard-like pulp,
rather inviting to the eye—but, ok! the
smell is overpowering. The crowd fall
back to the rail, every man holding his
nose. At this stage the chances seem in favor
of the Englishman, who is the younger
and more vigorous of the two; but Yankee
is tough, and not wanting in nerve, when it
comes to a question of national credit. Umpire
gives the word “charge,” and each
champion makes a dive with his spoon, and
swallows without blinking a mouthful of
the custard. It is done so quickly that
American can scarcely detect the flavor,
which is really not disagreeable. Russia
falls back one pace and again calls “charge.”
Another mouthful is simultaneously swallowed
by the champions. At the third
charge, as American coolly raised a spoonful
to his mouth, be glanced across the table
and saw the game was up. Britons’
cheek had lost its roses, his spoon dropped
before it reached his lips, and he bolted to
the side of the ship—he had thrown up the
''spoon''.

Umpire’s decision in favor of “our American
Cousin” was received with cheers, and
the waiters were summoned to throw overboard
the remnant of the dorian, and wash&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:39:02Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Italics fix</comment>
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      <text bytes="2388" sha1="fsjh72t3l97odoq6oow8lna6nq66yso" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|133}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the neighborhood we have seen ''dorians''
growing upon large trees and piled up for
sale in the market. It is oval in shape,
a third larger than the pineapple, and
greenish-yellow in color. We selected three
fine specimens, and sent them on board
with our baskets of fruits. As they are
brought on deck the Captain sniffs the air
and calls out, “take them d—d dorians forward.”

The next day at eleven o'clock is the time
fixed for the trial. A majority of our passengers
are English, but the few Americans
on board are ready to back their national
champion. The Secretary of the Russian
Legation at Pekin Is selected as umpire, and
the preliminary arrangements are very
simple. On the main deck, just forward of
the engines, is a small table, on which is
placed a dorian, a knife and two teaspoons.
Beside the table are two chairs for the principal
actors. The conditions are that neither
champion shall have the right of ''holding''
''his nose'' during the contest. At the
given hour the table is surrounded by all the
passengers and most of the officers of the
ship. The question arises who shall cut the
dorian? Umpire declines and the steward
volunteers. The fruit is severed length
wise, disclosing a white, custard-like pulp,
rather inviting to the eye—but, ok! the
smell is overpowering. The crowd fall
back to the rail, every man holding his
nose. At this stage the chances seem in favor
of the Englishman, who is the younger
and more vigorous of the two; but Yankee
is tough, and not wanting in nerve, when it
comes to a question of national credit. Umpire
gives the word “charge,” and each
champion makes a dive with his spoon, and
swallows without blinking a mouthful of
the custard. It is done so quickly that
American can scarcely detect the flavor,
which is really not disagreeable. Russia
falls back one pace and again calls “charge.”
Another mouthful is simultaneously swallowed
by the champions. At the third
charge, as American coolly raised a spoonful
to his mouth, be glanced across the table
and saw the game was up. Britons’
cheek had lost its roses, his spoon dropped
before it reached his lips, and he bolted to
the side of the ship—he had thrown up the
''spoon''.

Umpire’s decision in favor of “our American
Cousin” was received with cheers, and
the waiters were summoned to throw overboard
the remnant of the dorian, and wash&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:&quot;Round the world.&quot; - Letters from Japan, China, India, and Egypt (IA roundworldletter00fogg 0).pdf/166</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4201373</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131802</id>
      <parentid>13545482</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:00:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */  Proofread with italics and SIC tags</comment>
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      <text bytes="2426" sha1="74p8yfc6541a3lrg23udah6b17zvtj0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|134}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;down the table and the deck. Yankee
quietly withdrew to his stateroom, ''removed
a wad of cotton from his nostrils'', and returned
on dack to receive the congratulations
of all parties, who fumigated themselves
with chercots and washed down the
flavor of the dorian with several bottles of
champagne at the expense of Johnny Bull.

We left Penang late in the evening in the
midst of a terrific squall of rain and wind.
The water seemed to pour down in solid
sheets. Half an hour later it was bright
moonlight, and we steamed along the narrow
channel, winding among islets for
about thirty miles, when we reached the entrance
to the Straits of Malacca. Here we
dropped the native pilot into his boat without
checking the speed of the steamer, and
casting off the rope he was almost instantly
lost to sight astern. Our course is now
northwest across the Bay of Bengal to Calcutta.
When about half way we sight the
Andaman Isles, lofty, cone-shaped mountains,
covered with verdure to their very
summits, and a {{SIC|conspicious|conspicuous}} land mark
for sailers. On one of those islands the
English government has established a penal
colony which is visited only twice a year.
The Andaman group comprises several
large islands, some of which are said to be
inhabited by cannibals. The suggestion of
a possibility of a shipwreck in this neighborhood
is not very pleasant. We pass the
days on deck, where, protected from the
blazing sun by a double awning, we can
enjoy the breeze caused by the motion of
the ship. But the monotony of a sea voyage
in the Indian Ocean is very wearisome.
Every day the same bright sun and clear
sky. Books, conversation aud cheroots lose
their power to while away the listlessness,
the absolute inanity of such a life. In the
evening we lounge on deck with a full
moon sailing over our heads, the water
smooth as glass and sparkling in the phosphorescent
light. What can be more charming
than this “life on the ocean wave.” I
lingered late on deck enjoying this lovely
picture, which all the elements have combined
to render perfect, and at last reluctantly
went below. The lamp is burning
in the main cabin, which is deserted,
and the air is close and stifling. I enter
my state room and strike a match. Horror
of horrors! at the gleam of the light a score
of enormous cock-roaches scamper over the
floor, trunks and bedclothes. I glance at the
narrow berth and the thought of vermin&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>74p8yfc6541a3lrg23udah6b17zvtj0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131803</id>
      <parentid>15131802</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:01:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Italics fix</comment>
      <origin>15131803</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2430" sha1="cpfb5vtdt2mx76subd30zvyny49dfr3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|134}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;down the table and the deck. Yankee
quietly withdrew to his stateroom, ''removed''
''a wad of cotton from his nostrils'', and returned
on dack to receive the congratulations
of all parties, who fumigated themselves
with chercots and washed down the
flavor of the dorian with several bottles of
champagne at the expense of Johnny Bull.

We left Penang late in the evening in the
midst of a terrific squall of rain and wind.
The water seemed to pour down in solid
sheets. Half an hour later it was bright
moonlight, and we steamed along the narrow
channel, winding among islets for
about thirty miles, when we reached the entrance
to the Straits of Malacca. Here we
dropped the native pilot into his boat without
checking the speed of the steamer, and
casting off the rope he was almost instantly
lost to sight astern. Our course is now
northwest across the Bay of Bengal to Calcutta.
When about half way we sight the
Andaman Isles, lofty, cone-shaped mountains,
covered with verdure to their very
summits, and a {{SIC|conspicious|conspicuous}} land mark
for sailers. On one of those islands the
English government has established a penal
colony which is visited only twice a year.
The Andaman group comprises several
large islands, some of which are said to be
inhabited by cannibals. The suggestion of
a possibility of a shipwreck in this neighborhood
is not very pleasant. We pass the
days on deck, where, protected from the
blazing sun by a double awning, we can
enjoy the breeze caused by the motion of
the ship. But the monotony of a sea voyage
in the Indian Ocean is very wearisome.
Every day the same bright sun and clear
sky. Books, conversation aud cheroots lose
their power to while away the listlessness,
the absolute inanity of such a life. In the
evening we lounge on deck with a full
moon sailing over our heads, the water
smooth as glass and sparkling in the phosphorescent
light. What can be more charming
than this “life on the ocean wave.” I
lingered late on deck enjoying this lovely
picture, which all the elements have combined
to render perfect, and at last reluctantly
went below. The lamp is burning
in the main cabin, which is deserted,
and the air is close and stifling. I enter
my state room and strike a match. Horror
of horrors! at the gleam of the light a score
of enormous cock-roaches scamper over the
floor, trunks and bedclothes. I glance at the
narrow berth and the thought of vermin&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cpfb5vtdt2mx76subd30zvyny49dfr3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:&quot;Round the world.&quot; - Letters from Japan, China, India, and Egypt (IA roundworldletter00fogg 0).pdf/167</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4201374</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131828</id>
      <parentid>13159694</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:15:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */  Proofread with italics</comment>
      <origin>15131828</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1585" sha1="pmikg7vtaf2e9r0b5y2asornjzntuqb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|135}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;worse than these, of which I had discovered
“signs,” makes me shudder. There is a
most disagreeable odor {{SIC|prevading|pervading}} the whole
ship below. Perhaps it is from the opium
with which these servants are freighted on
their return voyage from India to China. I
call to the steward for a glass of water. It is
lukewarm, for the ice is all gone. In disgust
I go once more on deck, light a cheroot,
pace back and forth, then lean over the rail
and watch the glimmer of the moonbeams
on the smooth sea, and calculate how many
more such days and nights before we can
reach Calcutta. The illusion of romance
and beauty in a sea-life is fast fading away.
Reclining on a settee, I am soon asisep, but
the officer of the deck taps me on the shoulder
and very civilly says, &quot;Excuse me, sir,
but you ought not to sleep on deck; it is
not prudent in this climate.” I grope my
way down to the main saloon, draw a chair
to the table, rest my head on my arms, and
fall into a fitful, uneasy, unrefreshing sleep.
In my dreams I find “John Whopper’s”
hole through the north. I am in the rink,
listening to the music and watching the gay
crowd of skaters. Then I hear the jingle of
the sleigh bells and the crunching of the
snow beneath the runners as they fly along
the avenue. Anon and it is the splash of
water clear as crystal and cool as melted
icicles. I awake with a start, and I find it
is daylight. The noise I hear is the sailors
washing down the decks.

Sailing through tropical seas is not ''pure delight''{{--}}by no manner of means.
{{right|W. P. F.}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pmikg7vtaf2e9r0b5y2asornjzntuqb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:&quot;Round the world.&quot; - Letters from Japan, China, India, and Egypt (IA roundworldletter00fogg 0).pdf/169</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4201378</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131862</id>
      <parentid>13159708</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:35:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */  Proofread with italics</comment>
      <origin>15131862</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2420" sha1="b6fvas45khqmu7iub99tfjezptarvm0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|137}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;stream, the numerous spires and vast extent
of the city which has a population of over
600,000. It is situated on a broad piain on the
left bank and but little raised above the Hooghly,
100 miles from its mouth, and extends
nearly five miles along the shore. Above
“Garden Reach,” on our right is the residence
of the ex King of Oude. The grounds
have a frontage of half a mile on the river,
and include several detached palaces vast
in size and gaudy in decorations. Among
them is a Mosque, whose gilt dome surmounted
by a crescent glitters in the sun.
Here the King keeps up a muste conrt upon
an allowance of two {){SIC|lacs|lakhs}} of rupees, $100,000,
a month from the government. He is said
to be a profligate old scamp, with a hundred
or more wives, and is surrounded by a set
of native princes and rajahs, who are altogether
a bad lot. Always notorious for debauchery,
he has now become infamous for
his vices. Although his income is over a
million dollars a year he spends nearly
double that sum, and runs so recklessly into
debt that the government has lately appointed
a guardian to check his extravagance.

We anchor opposite the “old fort ''Ghaut'',”
an Indian word signifying ''steps'', the public
landing, which rises in a broad flight of
stone steps from the water's edge to the top
of the bank. The deck is instantly swarming
with the native Bergalese boatmen who
chatter like a lot of black-birds. A dozen
or more seize my baggage, hurry it into a
boat and in a few minutes I am on the soil
of India. As soon as the boat touches the
jetty a dozen more of these black fellows,
tall and slender, whose long, lank arms and
spindle legs make them look like a flock of
half starved crows, pounce upon my trunks,
carry them up the steps and pile them on a
gharry. It is useless to contend, so I quietly
submit, and climb into the carriage for
protection. The magpies surround the
gharry, each clamorous after pay for a service
which a single Irish porter could easily
have performed in two minutes. Not one
of these coolies has any other clothing than
a strip of dirty white cotton cloth around
the loins. I had procured from the purser
of the ship a handful of copper coin
which I scatter at random among the
crowd and shout to the driver to go
on. In a quarter of an hour we reach
the &quot;Great Eastern Hotel,” where
I am saluted by another crowd
of Coolies seemingly identical with those I&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>b6fvas45khqmu7iub99tfjezptarvm0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:&quot;Round the world.&quot; - Letters from Japan, China, India, and Egypt (IA roundworldletter00fogg 0).pdf/170</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4201379</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131894</id>
      <parentid>13159710</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:58:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ Proofread with SIC tags and italics</comment>
      <origin>15131894</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2420" sha1="6dqa6ucuz802soepsqvowud4ucumh2x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|138}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;escaped from at the landing. Four of them
tug away at a moderate sized trunk, twice
as many more cling to the other small parcels,
and when I reach the office of the hotel
they are after me once more for ''bucksheesh''.
My copper coin is exhausted and I hand
them over to the tender mercies of the
clerk who makes short work of them, for
he talks Bongalese like a native. He makes
one dash at them with hand, foot and tongue
and they fly out of the door like a flock
of black sheep.

The “Great Eastern” is an immense caravansary,
occupying a whole square. The
lower floor is used as a Bazaar for the sale
of everything to eat, drink, or wear of European
or eastern manufacture. The same
stock company runs the hotel and the bazaar,
and, of course, such a mammoth concern
pays no dividend. This hotel, though
said to be the largest and best in India, is
not comfortable nor first class according to
our American standard. The rooms are
lofty and spacious, but ill-furnished and
dingy. Having secured one of those barn-like
apartments, my first movement is to
engage a servant, for every guest is expected
to have an especial lackey to take care of
his room, bring his coffee, wait on him at
the table, etc. For this position worth half
a rupee (twenty-five cents) a day, there are
twenty applicants, and each has his written
“{{SIC|karacter|character}}” from a former employer. These
are in English and some are curious and not
exactly complimentary to the bearers.
The candidates are dressed in white from
head to foot, except the sash round the
waist which is of fancy colors. I selected an
honest looking fellow whose colors are red,
white and blue stripes, only needing the
stars to seem girded by an American flag.
He repeats his name several times, and at
last I catch the sound as “New Var-
mint.” He is immediately installed, addresses
me as &quot;Sahib” makes a low salaam, touching
his hands to his forehead and bowing
almost to the floor. Nothing can exceed
the obsequiousness of manners in these native
servants, but most of them are great
rascals. “New Varmint” never speaks to
his master without a salaam so low that
long practice alone prevents his losing his
balance. But I am warned not to leave valuables
lying around loose, and I soon find
that in every purchase in any shop, native
or European, the “''Varmint''” gets a commission.

Calcutta is just now in the height of the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6dqa6ucuz802soepsqvowud4ucumh2x</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:&quot;Round the world.&quot; - Letters from Japan, China, India, and Egypt (IA roundworldletter00fogg 0).pdf/171</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4201381</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132834</id>
      <parentid>13309561</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:18:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ Proofread with italics and SIC tags</comment>
      <origin>15132834</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2418" sha1="1gqopzvpi9zj7bfyuib3lhw2kzftfld" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|139}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;season, and this is race week, a great attraction
to the English at home or abroad. The
races are advertised from 7 to 10 o’clock in
the morning, before the heat of the sun
drives everybody within doors. At this
early hour the race ground is covered with
stylish carriages containing the wealth and
fashion of the metropolis. Europeans and
Bengalese, Turks and Arabs, {{SIC|Hindoos|Hindus}} and
Mohometane, in clarences and broughams,
gharries, dog-carts, traps, drags, and every
conceivable style of vehicle, drawn by
horses, mules and donkeys, crowd the road.
The costumes are of every color of the rainbow,
and the complexions of every shade,
from the jet black with straight glossy hair,
whose shiny skins are an excellent foil for
their white cotton robes, up through half-caste
and every shade of mixture to pure
white blood. The gay turbans and rich
flowing robes of silk and satin wore by
the ''Baboos'', or native merchants, give a
picturesqueness to the scene peculiar to the
East. The track is of solid, firm turf; the
horses of Arabian stock, the jockeys dressed
in fancy colore, the races run at full speed as
at Epsom er Ascot in Old England. But
I am more interested in lookirg at the specttators
than in watching the race. I notice
that no person on foot, horseback or in carriage,
unless of pure European blood, is admitted
to the inner circle, or near the grand
stand. There is in India a large class of
well educated, and often very wealthy people,
called ''Eurasians'', or English-speaking
half castes, who inter-marry with the
European, but who seem to be
an intermediate race between the {{SIC|Hindoo|Hindu}}
and the Caucasian. The prejudice
of color shuts them out from the best English
society, while their own pride and superiority
in culture keeps them distinct
from the wealthy nations of full Indian
blood.

Of the whole resident population of Calcutta,
less than ten thousand are Europeans.
Many of the English merchants are very
wealthy and live in a style of luxury and
splendor that impresses the stranger. Their
houses are literally palaces, and their hospitality
unbounded. The Armenians are a
very numerous and influential body of
merchants, and the native Hindoos, though
formerely timorous, now as bankers,
agents and money lenders, venture upon
every kind of mercantile speculation, and
goods belonging to native merchants, valued
at several millions sterling are lying&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1gqopzvpi9zj7bfyuib3lhw2kzftfld</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:&quot;Round the world.&quot; - Letters from Japan, China, India, and Egypt (IA roundworldletter00fogg 0).pdf/172</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4201382</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132866</id>
      <parentid>13159714</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:33:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */  Proofread with italics and SIC tags</comment>
      <origin>15132866</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2399" sha1="73zp6esjfr6k18x721aqtaky2h03uxt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|140}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;for sale in the warehouses. Calcutta is the
great emporium of India. Ite staple commodities
of expert, are indigo, opium, cotton,
sugar, rice and silk, and by means of
the Ganges, and its extensive connection
with the interior, it commands an immense
commerce.

Almost two centuries ago, the Emperor
of Delhi granted to the East India Company,
a tract of land on the banks of the
Hooghly, which is the site now occupied by
Calcutta. On it was then a native village,
called “Kallcuttah,” from ''Kali'', a goddess,
''Cuttah'', a temple, hence the name of what is
now one of the most splendid cities of Asia,
and the seat of the supreme government of
the British in India. Many years ago, in
the time of Warren Hastings, when English
power in India was almost extinguished,
after a long siege, Calcutta was surrendered
to Jrjad Dowlah, the Rajah of Bengal. and
one hundred and fifty Englishmen were
shut up for a night in an under ground cell,
The next morning all were found suffocated
in the “Black Hole” of Calcutta. The exact
location of this spot, which is so often
quoted, is between the Post Office and
Court Houses, both large marble buildings
on the strand.

Since the Sepoy rebellion in 1857 that great
monopoly, the “East India Company,” has
ceased to exist. It was an anomaly in history,
an ''imperium in imperio'', with an army
of over two hundred thousand men, levying
war and making trestles, and ruling
with despotic sway more than a hundred
and fifty millions of human beings. The
terrible exections of this powerful corporation
culminated in a bloody rebellion, which
was trampled out with an iron heel at a cost
to England of $200,000,000. During the
mutiny the horrible atrocities of the half-civilized
natives, goaded on by religious
fanaticisms, were not more shocking to the
world than the terrible punishment inflicted
by Christian Englishmen in blowing Sepoy
prisoners from the mouths of their cannon.
After the mutiny was suppressed, the English
government assumed the sovereignty
of this immense territory, extending from
the Himalayas two thousand miles to Cape
Cormorin, and from the Indian ocean on the
west fifteen hundred miles to the Bay of
Bengal—as large as all the States east of
the Mississippi. The change in the governmeant
has resulted in the reform of many
abusers, which, in the old times of Lord
Clivo and Warren Hastings, were the text&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>73zp6esjfr6k18x721aqtaky2h03uxt</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:&quot;Round the world.&quot; - Letters from Japan, China, India, and Egypt (IA roundworldletter00fogg 0).pdf/173</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4201383</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132890</id>
      <parentid>13309562</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:46:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ Proofread with italics</comment>
      <origin>15132890</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2389" sha1="3hsymbjfin60zsvmyemn2vp84pds6sp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|141}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of burning denunciation in the British Parliament.
But the country is still many years
behind the age. Neither native nor European
residents have any voice in making or
administering the laws, or the appointment
of their rulers. The members of the government,
all being sent out from England,
have an exaggerated sense of their importance
and dignity. Laws for the government
of this vast empire are enacted ten thousand
miles away, taxes are imposed and tariffs
arranged with little regard to the wants or
wishes of the people of India. The salary
of the Viceroy, or Governor General, is
$125,000 a year, and every evening his carriage
appears on the strand drawn by six
horses, with postillions in scarlet livery,
preceded and followed by red-coated lancers,
All this is but a part of the system of governing
this country, to impress upon the
ignorant natives the grandeur and power of
their British rulers.

Calcutta boasts many large and imposing
public buildings, among which is the Government
House, which cost about $700,000,
and affords ample accommodation for official
business and grand levees for the representatives
of royalty. The Mint is an elegant
Doric edifice on the bank of the river,
and is said to be the largest in the world,
having a capacity of striking 300,000 pieces
in a working day of seven hours. Besides
these, there are numerous museums, libraries,
churches and public halls, and scattered
through the park and near the Government
House are bronze statues of Lord
Hardinge, the Earl of Auckland, Lord Bentinck,
and several other rulers and benefactors
of India.

Every year, as soon as the hot weather
sets in, or by the middle of March, the Vice-royal
court, with the whole machinery of
the government, is packed off by railway to
Simla, 1,500 miles north, at the foot of the
Himalayas, and here it remains until the
close of the rainy season in November. A
more inconvenient arrangement, so far as
the public business is concerned, can
scarcely be imagined; but to the government
officials their personal comfort is of
more consequence than efficiency or regard
for the public interest.

A week in Calcutta exhausted all the
novelties, including a ride in a ''palanquin'',
which is a large sized black coffin borne by
two dark skinned mournful-looking Coolies
in white robes. It is tilted on one side to
crawl in, and you must lie flat on your back&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3hsymbjfin60zsvmyemn2vp84pds6sp</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:&quot;Round the world.&quot; - Letters from Japan, China, India, and Egypt (IA roundworldletter00fogg 0).pdf/174</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4201384</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132963</id>
      <parentid>13309563</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:22:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ Proofread with italics and SIC tags</comment>
      <origin>15132963</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2462" sha1="f8t4e2qrs4adpdwn3ods8otd2taobpg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|142}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and perfectiy still. If you turn you are in
danger of upsetting the machine and being
split out. One trial of the Indian “''paliy'',”
as it is called, was enough, and I voted the
machine a humbug and not to be compared
for comfort with the sedan chair of China.

One evening I found myself in a gharry,
with my baggage and ''New Varmint'' on the
top of the vehicle, bound to the
station of the East India Railway, ''en route''
for the up country. On the way to the terminus
I stepped into another hotel to say
good bye to my Russian friend who had
acted as umpire in the ''dorian'' contest, and
while there I heard the boom of the nine
o' clock evening gun in the Palace grounds
near by, ard then a loud shouting in the
street followed by a crash. The driver had
left his seat to gossip with another native,
and the horse frightened at the report of the
gun, had dashed away, the vehicle collided
with a lamp post and upset, tossing poor N.
V. amid a shower of boxes, satchels and
bundles into the middle of the street, {{SIC|when|where}}
he rolled over several times in the white
dust. The poor fellow was not hurt, however,
but so badly frightened that his complexion
with the addition of a thick cast of
dust was decidedly more European than
Asiatic in color. After some delay I secured
another carriage, but train time was
so near at hand that I barely escaped being
left by the ferry boat which conveys passengers
across the Hooghly to the suburb of
Howrah where the railway station
is located. “New  Varmint” stuck
to me to the last, and so the train
whirled away and I saw him from the
window of my compartment bowing and
salaaming lower than ever in consideration
of the liberal ''douceur'' which he received in
addition to his pay and {{SIC|perquisites|prerequisites}}.

I had not seen a railway since I left San
Francisco four months previous, and the
novelty was quite enjoyable. A few years
ago the traveller who would penetrate-into
the interior of India was obliged to travel
in a ''Dak Gharry'' at the rate of forty or fifty
miles a day, and my proposed trip of nearly
three thousand miles up the valley of the
Ganges to Delhi, thence to the Himalayas,
and back through Northwestern and Central
India to Bombay, would have occupied
many months, and involved too much risk
and hardship to pay as a pleasure excursion.
But to-day there are over six
thousand miles of complete railway in India
and several thousand more are building.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:&quot;Round the world.&quot; - Letters from Japan, China, India, and Egypt (IA roundworldletter00fogg 0).pdf/249</title>
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      <text bytes="2417" sha1="t5tla3wd03cfznccgpw3dzeebkav4wa" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;{{c|203}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;American war, and the Alabama claims. I
laugh at their conventual{{sic}} idea of a Yankee
as represented on the stage, who is supposed
to talk through his nose, wear trowsers
strapped half way up to his knees, and a
hat and long-tailed coat of the last century.
The new route from England westward to
India is becoming better known and more
popular every year, and opens to these
Anglo-Indians new and more correct ideas
of the American continent.

Our route is westward, inclining a little
to the south, for Aden is three hundred miles
nearer the equator than the last land we saw
in India. This voyage has long been dreaded
as hot, wearisome and full of discomfort.
But the consolation is that it is the last long
sea trip before reaching Europe, Sea voyaging
in the tropics has its pleasures, but
they are not unmixed. A month later and
the Arabian Sea will be hot as a furnace,
and even now the noonday sun pours down
so fiercely that the awnings are an insufficient
protection, while the air in the cabins
below is stifling. We go down to meals and
hurry up again on deck leaving our dinner
half eaten, and gasping for a breath of fresh
air. The sea is calm and the water smooth
as a mirror. The engine has broken down
and for half a day we float like a “painted
ship upon a painted ocean.” The captain
and officers are annoyed at the accident and
in bad humor so that we do not like to ask
questions; and, besides, the sum total of
''Italian'' among the passengers is insufficient
for much conversation. The nature of the
accident we know not, but the relief is great,
mentally as well as physically, when we
once more feel the jar of the machinery and
welcome the refreshing breeze caused by the
motion of the ship.

After eight days steaming over the smooth
and trackless Indian Ocean, without once
seeing a sail or a speck of land, we sight far
away the high peaks and desolate crags of
Aden, which at first seemed like hazy clouds,
but for five hours have been gradually becoming
more and more distinct, until at sun
set we anchor in a spacious sheltered harbor,
so easy of aceess and with water so deep
that no pilot is required. Unless the reader
is well posted in geography, or fond of books
of travel, he may know very little about
this possesion of England in the northwest
corner of the Arabian Sea, which she has
fortified like another Gibraltar.

Aden, the great halfway coaling station&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>User talk:Mårtensås</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
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      <comment>/* Translation:Óláfsdrápa sœnska */ new section</comment>
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      <text bytes="10563" sha1="emtnnem6fm313gxcwmn0c7kgr1dnvca" xml:space="preserve">{{welcome}} — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:smaller&quot;&gt;[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]&lt;/span&gt;'' 13:19, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

== [[:Page:Rudiments of Grammar for the English-Saxon Tongue (Elstob 1715).djvu/13]] ==

Thanks..  And thus in Modern english hearth? (One for Wiktionary I think.) :) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 21:52, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

:Indeed, it's the same word. [[User:Mårtensås|Mårtensås]] ([[User talk:Mårtensås#top|talk]]) 22:53, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

== [[Into the Darkness]] ==

Wikisource no longer accepts secondhand copies from Project Gutenberg.  However, this work is still under copyright in the US because of renewal R414351.  It cannot be legally hosted here until 2036. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:37, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

== ppoem ==

This is a processing-heavy template, which means that it fails to function if used on lengthy poetry.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:47, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

:I understand. Should I split the page into several parts? Or use several instances of ppoem (or will this still break)? [[User:Mårtensås|Mårtensås]] ([[User talk:Mårtensås#top|talk]]) 18:50, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::There are no clear places to break this into shorter sections.  Any such breaks would be arbitrary and artificial.  Since this isn't backed by a scan, such divisions would also create problems for future editors.  The ppoem template has limitations, and cannot be used on lengthier works. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:56, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

== Germanic poetry ==

This concept does not fit into any of our established categorization structures.  It is not a language, or a nationality, or a subject.  It is rather a loose assemble based on an abstraction of their linguistic history, something for which we have never had a category structure.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:53, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

:Old Germanic poetry has several things in common, like:
:* meter, specifically alliterative verse with each line having four stresses,
:* poetic formulae
:* exclusive poetic words and expressions
:It is a well accepted category, not a loose assemble (see Wikipedia: {{w|Alliterative verse#Common Germanic origins}}), but &quot;Germanic&quot; is fairly broad, and modern poetry in Germanic languages like German, Scandinavian, English &amp;c. generally takes much more from classical sources of inspiration than native Germanic. So maybe we could have a category like &quot;alliterative poetry&quot; or &quot;Old Germanic poetry&quot; instead? [[User:Mårtensås|Mårtensås]] ([[User talk:Mårtensås#top|talk]]) 15:03, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
::This would be better expressed using some kind of Portal, I think, rather than a category.  The fact that certain features were common across multiple languages is not independent of their common linguistic origins.  We have a [[Portal:Germanic literature]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:04, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
:::The Germanic alliterative poetry was basically a shared poetic movement that died out in all Germanic-speaking areas except for Iceland, and has much more in common than just language. Modern German, Swedish and English are all Germanic languages, and their literatures are &quot;Germanic literatures&quot;, but their poetry is not Germanic alliterative poetry. Did you read the Wikipedia article?
:::If you do not delete it, I will create a portal for &quot;Germanic alliterative poetry&quot;. Does the Library of Congress classification system mean that Old English poetry must be sorted under a separate portal? Or are we allowed a bit of freedom with our classifications here on Wikisource? [[User:Mårtensås|Mårtensås]] ([[User talk:Mårtensås#top|talk]]) 19:19, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

== Alliterative poetry ==

What determines whether a poem belongs in this category or not?  Does it have to alliterate in the original language, or in the translation?  How much alliteration?  Is [[The Raven (Poe)]] an alliterative poem? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:01, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

:In alliterative poetry the alliteration is the key part of the metre, not just a decorative flourish. The metre of the Raven is built on end-rhyme, not alliteration, whereas a poem like Beowulf absolutely requires alliteration in every line; without it the meter is defunct. But yes, it is perhaps not always clear. [[User:Mårtensås|Mårtensås]] ([[User talk:Mårtensås#top|talk]]) 19:21, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
::I can't find that definition of &quot;alliterative poetry&quot; anywhere.  Nor does it seem to be a phrase found in the literature.  Where did you find this label, and how will readers of WS know what it means? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:25, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Even in the Wikipedia article’s lede, one reads: ”In prosody, alliterative verse is a form of verse that uses alliteration '''as the principal device to indicate the underlying metrical structure, as opposed to other devices such as rhyme.'''” [[User:Mårtensås|Mårtensås]] ([[User talk:Mårtensås#top|talk]]) 20:48, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
::::There, it is called &quot;alliterative verse&quot;, and that is the label I have found in the literature.  It is not a widespread term, but I do find it.  However, I do not find &quot;alliterative poetry&quot; used in the same sense.  Changing one part of an academic term to a synonym creates a new phrase that won't be recognized.  I'm am coming to the opinion that this would be better handled using a Portal than a category, so that a full explanation and links to relevant WP content can be provided for context. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:58, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

== [[Northern Antiquities]] ==

Please use Roman numerals in the page titles for chapter numbers, even if the chapters have Roman numerals in the original.  You can ''display'' Roman numerals, but the page names themselves should use Roman numerals for chapter numbers. [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:57, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

How will readers get to the [[Northern Antiquities/Dedication|Dedication]]?  There are no links anywhere that point to it.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:39, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

:I guess that it should, along with the Account of the Author, be added to the Table of Contents, maybe using &quot;includeonly&quot; tags, since it is not present in the original. It is also linked to, namely with a &quot;previous&quot; from the Translator's Preface (or is that the Account of the Author? I am presently on my phone and cannot check; but both are linked in that way). [[User:Mårtensås|Mårtensås]] ([[User talk:Mårtensås#top|talk]]) 07:51, 12 August 2024 (UTC) [[User:Mårtensås|Mårtensås]] ([[User talk:Mårtensås#top|talk]]) 07:51, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

== Removing redirects ==

In [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Author%3AAlfred_Tennyson&amp;diff=14470630&amp;oldid=13802286 these edits] it looks as though you're sorting the listings by page numbers in the publication.  On an Author page, we sort by date whenever practical, and when it isn't, we sort alphabetically. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:51, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:These poems are surely in a specific order for a reason, and many have an internal coherence. For instance in ''[[Tiresias, and Other Poems]]'' where &quot;[[Tiresias, and Other Poems/The Charge of the Heavy Brigade at Balaclava|The Charge of the Heavy Brigade at Balaclava]]&quot; is preceded by &quot;[[Tiresias, and Other Poems/Prologue|Prologue]]&quot; and followed by &quot;[[Tiresias, and Other Poems/Epilogue|Epilogue]]&quot;. [[User:Mårtensås|Mårtensås]] ([[User talk:Mårtensås#top|talk]]) 21:01, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::And they will be listed in their published sequence in the book's table of contents.  But if someone is looking on the ''Author'' page for a listing, alphabetical sequence is preferred. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:15, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

== Index pages ==

Please do not use &quot;Move&quot; to &quot;move&quot; an Index page.  Doing so does not work, and leaves behind a huge mess. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:29, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Okay but now it's impossible to edit [[Index:The Hymns of the Rigveda Vol 2 (better).djvu]]. What should be done is that [[Index:The Hymns of the Rigveda Vol 2.djvu]] is deleted or otherwise marked as obsolete, since numerous pages are missing at it (which is why I moved it in the first place). [[User:Mårtensås|Mårtensås]] ([[User talk:Mårtensås#top|talk]]) 19:09, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::Switching from one Index to another is a complex process.  Until you understand the process, I recommend asking for help if an Index needs to be switched.  I have just gone through and cleaned up all the pages that were at the old Index by deleting them; have created the new Index again; and have adjusted all the links.  The pages attached to the original ndex do not disappear when an Index is moved, nor do they move with the Index.  And they often do not align to the same page locations in the new scan.
::An Index is named based on a specific file on Commons, and all of the linked pages shown in the Index are tied to that same file name.  If oyu need to switch to using a new file, create a new Index instead of trying to &quot;move&quot; the old one.  Or ask for help with a bot to move all the individual pages, because as I say, it is a complex process that can create a big mess if not done precisely correct. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:21, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

== Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader ==

We do have an Index for a scan already started: [[Index:Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader.djvu]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:09, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Óláfsdrápa sœnska]] ==

What was the source for the original text ? English wikisource requires that there be a scan-backed copy in the original language before it accepts a user translation into English. [[WS:Translations#Wikisource_original_translations]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:26, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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    <title>Index:Memorial tablet for Arthur A Denny and first Post Office in Seattle, ca 1905 (PEISER 40).jpeg</title>
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      <id>15131887</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
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      <comment>Done</comment>
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    <title>Page:Memorial tablet for Arthur A Denny and first Post Office in Seattle, ca 1905 (PEISER 40).jpeg</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131885</id>
      <parentid>13305775</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:50:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
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      <origin>15131885</origin>
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      <text bytes="389" sha1="3mx8vujrxmaq8c5vef9bsza7u1s75hq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|{{xxxx-larger|Arthur A Denny}}}}}}
{{bc|{{xx-larger block|{{small-caps block|In His Log Cabin Home on&lt;br /&gt;this Spot Opened the First&lt;br /&gt;Post Office of Seattle&lt;br /&gt;August {{smaller|27,}} 1853.}}}}
{{rule|15em}}
{{larger block|This Tablet was Erected by the Washington&lt;br /&gt;University State Historical Society....&lt;br /&gt;November 13, 1905}}
{{right|''Eagle Brass Fdy Seattle''}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Plaque of Arthur A Denny</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4247447</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131905</id>
      <parentid>13305778</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:02:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
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      <comment>Location</comment>
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      <text bytes="828" sha1="ehra1hj7l259a9a4w35tg33fnng1zz8" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = Plaque of Arthur A Denny
 | author     = 
 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1905
 | notes      = A plaque for Arthur Armstrong Denny. It is located in 1st Avenue, Seattle, WA. ({{coord|47|36.264|N|122|20.144|W|type:landmark_region:US}}).
 | override_author = [[Portal:Washington University State Historical Society|Washington University State Historical Society]]
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[[Category:Plaques|Arthur A Denny]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Index:Hale Memorial - The Birthplace of Nathan Hale (1937).png</title>
    <ns>106</ns>
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      <id>15132510</id>
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        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
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      <comment>Done</comment>
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|Type=book
|Title=[[Hale Memorial: The Birthplace of Nathan Hale]]
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    <title>Page:Hale Memorial - The Birthplace of Nathan Hale (1937).png</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4255563</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132509</id>
      <parentid>13329222</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:48:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132509</origin>
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      <text bytes="648" sha1="rnlc748uqmhc8l49le4e9q8u3w972k7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{x-larger|HALE MEMORIAL}}&lt;br /&gt;THE BIRTHPLACE OF NATHAN HALE}}

{{bc|width=20em|Durable stone preserve the monumental record Nathan Hale Esq. a Capt. in the army of the United States who was born June 6&lt;sup&gt;&lt;u&gt;th&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;, 1755 and receiv'd the first honors of Yale College Sept. 1773. resign'd his life a sacrifice to his country's liberty at New York Sept. 22&lt;sup&gt;&lt;u&gt;d&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/sup&gt; 1776. {{smaller|{{lang|la|Etatis}} 22&lt;sup&gt;&lt;u&gt;d&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;}}
{{right|offset=2em|Epitaph}}

{{c|His last words were:&lt;br /&gt;
&quot;I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country&quot;
{{dhr}}
{{fine block|ERECTED A.D. 1937 BY&lt;br /&gt;
GEORGE DUDLEY SEYMOUR}}
}}
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/164</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265398</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131969</id>
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        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15131969</origin>
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      <text bytes="670" sha1="84619g5j1ygrmslo6k1o0pydcx7w4sj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|class=chapter num|Chapter XVIII}}
{{ph|class=chapter title|If Skipper Jennings Had Not Rescued Certain Shipwrecked Japanese|level=2}}

{{di|T}}OWARD the end of the year 1850, Captain Jennings, of the American bark ''Auckland,'' trading in Asiatic waters, picked up the shipwrecked crew of a Japanese fishing vessel, somewhere off the coast of Japan. The captain was then bound for the new port of San Francisco, which the California gold-diggings had already made an important city. He continued on his course, and in due time—that is to say, very early in the year 1851—landed at San Francisco with his party of refugees.

Here the bright little Orientals were&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/165</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265399</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131973</id>
      <parentid>13355558</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:30:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="891" sha1="aa1bxt7c3hup5znh2ecnsbh4ynlfyqu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;more than a nine days' wonder. Few Americans had ever before seen a Japanese. That country was at the time more a &quot;hermit nation&quot; than Korea herself. Whalers and other sailors who had been wrecked on the Japanese coast had been put to cruel deaths. No white men except the Dutch had been permitted to trade with any of the Japanese cities, and the Dutch trade had fallen into decay. Japan seemed as far from our lives as is the planet Mars.

But the Japanese whom Captain Jennings had humanely rescued were kindly treated by him, and on the homeward voyage they had endeared themselves to him and his crew. He landed them at San Francisco with very favorable reports of their character, conduct and intelligence. The free-handed miners of that town wanted nothing better than somebody or something to lionize. So for a considerable time the shipwrecked Japanese had the best of everything in&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/166</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265400</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131977</id>
      <parentid>13355560</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:31:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="886" sha1="dc139vcoq1gcayr3tcfn2zdwl3mwxmm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;San Francisco, until an opportunity arose to send them, fat and happy, back to their own country.

A full account of the incident and of the refugees was published in one of the San Francisco papers. It fell into the hands of just one man who was capable of perceiving the momentous possibilities that lay in the occurrence. This man was a commodore in the United States navy; and his name was not Perry, as the reader may at first surmise, but John H. Aulick. He was a Virginian, then in his sixty-second year; he had had a long and very honorable service, and was keen and statesmanlike in his ideas.

What Commodore Aulick saw in the incident was this: The kind and friendly reception of the Japanese waifs in America, contrasted with the ordinary treatment of white refugees in Japan, might be taken advantage of to open friendly relations with Japan. To effect this result, a naval&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/167</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265401</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131981</id>
      <parentid>13355562</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:32:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="885" sha1="he0meokst2wz41l5qkrvrgvzsixowtr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;expedition should be sent to Japan. If properly conducted, the expedition not only might secure friendly treatment of American whalers on the Japanese coasts, but might open up trade relations with the country which would be highly profitable.

Filled with his idea, which was really a great one, Commodore Aulick obtained permission to lay it before the secretary of state, who was none other than Daniel Webster. He had an interview with Mr. Webster at Washington on the 9th day of May, 1851.

Webster saw the point at once. At his instance, President Fillmore ordered the navy department to prepare a small expedition for the voyage to Japan; and when the ships were ready—they were headed by the sloop of war ''Mississippi''—Commodore Aulick was put in command. He actually sailed on the voyage; but he was entrusted with the task of taking the Brazilian minister as far as Rio&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/168</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265403</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131986</id>
      <parentid>13355564</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:33:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="901" sha1="q0xpyevy28h4fj32yi3t8cxwrampabb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Janeiro on the way, and some trouble having arisen with this functionary for which Commodore Aulick was blamed, he was superseded in command of the expedition by Commodore Matthew Calbraith Perry, in command of the ''Hartford.''

It was Perry, therefore, who &quot;opened up Japan.&quot; His name will be associated, as long as the story of the two nations is told, with the event. But it was Aulick's idea, not Perry's; and it all hung upon the luck which those Japanese fishermen, waifs upon a boundless ocean, had in being picked up by a generous Yankee skipper, and in finding their way to so wholehearted and so hospitable a city toward &quot;Mongolian&quot; wanderers as San Francisco was—then!

If this incident had not suggested and been followed by the Aulick-Perry expedition, what then? Russian authorities have claimed that Russia was preparing a similar expedition at the time when Secretary Webster—&quot;too&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/169</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265404</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131989</id>
      <parentid>13355565</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:34:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15131989</origin>
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      <text bytes="944" sha1="kko3jw9l403eemuflt1rvbzcfmgefuz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;zealous,&quot; according to their view—sent the United States ships on their way. There is good reason to believe that the Russian government would have been slow in making such an infinitely clever move as the Perry expedition constituted. Yet if the United States had not taken the step, Russia would have stood next in the line of logical inheritance to the idea. And if Japan had been opened under Russian auspices, its doors, instead of standing open toward the East, and consequently toward ''our'' West, would have opened toward the Asiatic continental West, which would have meant toward St. Petersburg.

If the Japanese had, under Russian initiative, adopted the material adjuncts of western civilization, as they finally did under ours, that civilization would have taken on a distinctly Muscovite color. The Japanese would never, indeed, have been able, under such auspices, to organize an effective resistance to Russian arms, for long&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/170</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265405</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131992</id>
      <parentid>13355567</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:35:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15131992</origin>
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      <text bytes="903" sha1="9jf35m9rbi7dhdj9o8wqac66jaht93m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;before they had acquired the requisite training they must have been held firmly in the grip of the Russian military system.

That is to say, Japan would have been, step by step, annexed to the Russian empire. The Russo-Japanese war would never have been, since there would have been neither hope nor occasion for it. Most of the rich fruits of Japanese art and industry would have drifted toward Russia. The Russian empire would have been enormously enriched by the Japanese trade, and the importance of that empire immensely magnified in the history of our epoch. A reflex orientalizing influence would have rolled over Russia itself, and the course of Russian internal development altered in a degree now almost incalculable.

If Russia had not been reasonably prompt to take the step, the eyes of British statesmen must sooner or later have been opened to the opportunity. The method by which British&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/171</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265406</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131996</id>
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        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="885" sha1="h46218crfryc6t6iws9a31q1wct81go" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;intervention proceeds in Asiatic countries is well known. It has always had but slight regard for native sovereignty, no matter how high the state of social or artistic or intellectual development on the part of the native races affected. British administrators, or, if Japan had retained its nominal sovereignty, British &quot;residents&quot; or agents, would really have governed the country through the Tycoon or the Mikado, or both—preferably the Tycoon, for he was a military ruler, and affairs could have been handled more readily through him.

Events in Japan must have anticipated the subsequent history of Egypt, on a much more magnificent scale. Again, though there would have been a readier entrance for American and European trade than in the case of Russian intervention, the best of everything Japanese would certainly have gone to England. And once again, the free, independent,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/172</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265407</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131998</id>
      <parentid>13355569</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:36:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="909" sha1="tvbuonx2k13rqjl3mac47sbfafh1q6d" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;powerful, masterful Japanese empire of the present day, thrilling with a new life in which all the civilization of the Occident is made the handmaid of an ancient and undaunted Asiatic people, would not have been.

In the unlikely event that the Japanese, in default of Perry's expedition, had been left quite alone for another generation or two, their case would not have been better in the long run. They would simply have missed the chance they got. Left a &quot;hermit nation,&quot; they would sooner or later have fallen under the influence of one Western country or another, and been so seriously retarded in the race of civilization that they could never have caught up.

America was the only country that could have opened to them the wonderful career that they have had. The high noon of the nineteenth century was the golden moment for the commencement of their development along the line of Western civiliza-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/173</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265408</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132000</id>
      <parentid>13355571</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:37:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <text bytes="319" sha1="suqrty05b5jms6ug0emkfiuzo4nrdgd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;tion. If the hour had not struck then for them it would not have struck at all. Time, the helping hand, the protecting influence of an unselfish friend among the nations, and the golden gift of destiny, were all represented for Japan in the rescuing sails of Skipper Jennings's bark, that lucky day in the wide Pacific.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/174</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265409</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132004</id>
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        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <text bytes="644" sha1="mbinh7gffbqzelvd8bcult9rmeayfei" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|class=chapter num|Chapter XIX}}
{{ph|class=chapter title|If Orsini's Bomb Had Not Failed to Destroy Napoleon III|level=2}}

{{di|E}}DWARD A. FREEMAN wrote, after the fall of the second Bonaparte empire: &quot;The work of Richelieu is utterly undone, the work of Henry II and Louis XIV is partially undone; the Rhine now neither crosses nor waters a single rood of French ground. As it was in the first beginnings of northern European history, so it is now; Germany lies on both sides of the German river.&quot; This was not by any means the whole of the work wrought by that adventurer on an imperial throne, Napoleon III, through his disastrous war&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/175</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265410</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132007</id>
      <parentid>13355573</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:39:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132007</origin>
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      <text bytes="905" sha1="aa437y7xm0de318i0hem2dktxo8g0ci" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;against a united Germany. He accomplished also the slaughter of five hundred thousand men, and the impoverishment of millions. He sounded the death knell of monarchical adventuring in France, which was indeed one good result of the Napoleonic ''débâcle,'' but he also fastened militarism, in the form of excessive and progressively increasing peace armaments, upon Europe, and magnified public debts and taxation to the limit of endurance.

Every event here mentioned was a direct development, not of Napoleon III's original seizure of the French throne, but of the final years, and the eventual overthrow of his power—the overthrow itself due to the Franco-Prussian war. A single event, criminal in its character, might have prevented these results. That great benefits sometimes eventuate from men's crimes is no news, and no longer a marvel, to the philosopher, who, when good comes of evil, is apt&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/176</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265411</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132010</id>
      <parentid>13355574</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:40:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <text bytes="882" sha1="2ji23y7b6fg2zeslommtkikhuo8jo99" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;to repeat the words, &quot;God moves in a mysterious way his wonders to perform.&quot;

The evil deed to which I have here referred, which would have saved the lives of five hundred thousand people and left the river Rhine still washing the confines of France, was the aiming of Orsini's bomb on the evening of the 14th of January, 1858. This bomb was designed to take the life of the emperor of the French. If the attempt had succeeded, and Napoleon had died as Alexander II of Russia and King Humbert of Italy afterward died, there would have been no Franco-German war. The throne of the baby Napoleon IV, who was then less than two years old, very likely would not have endured long; but whether the third republic had immediately arisen, or whether the Orleans Bourbons had been restored to the throne, it would have been found easy to preserve the peace with Prussia and Germany.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/177</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265412</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132015</id>
      <parentid>13355576</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:41:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="905" sha1="cn3imonbccrezjn2d7cap64cuglieiy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;For Napoleon III deliberately, and with malignant ingenuity, provoked war with Germany in 1870. There is now no doubt that Bismarck desired such a war. He afterward confessed that he deceived the aged King William in such a way that all chance of peace at Ems was lost. But nevertheless the provocation of Napoleon was direct and deliberate.

His grievance was that the Hohenzollern prince, Leopold, had consented to become a candidate for the vacant throne of Spain. King William withdrew Prince Leopold's candidature. This really destroyed Napoleon's pretext for bringing on a war. But he desired a foreign war in order to forestall revolutionary opposition at home, which threatened to become irresistible. Napoleon thereupon caused his ambassador, Benedetti, insolently, and in a manner quite unbearable, to demand personally from King William a declaration that no Hohenzollern should ever be permit-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/178</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265413</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132019</id>
      <parentid>13355577</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:42:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="885" sha1="8g48y3qverqivybcdmb1agdb32l4l0z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;ted to become king of Spain. King William treated this insolence as it deserved, and France, thereupon, declared war against Prussia.

What followed, the world knows. The consequences were tremendous. France was maimed of Alsace and Lorraine. Half a million of the flower of the manhood of both nations perished. France taxed herself with five millions of francs of indemnity, and though she has paid the debt to Germany, she still owes it to her own citizens. The difficulties of French government and finance were increased prodigiously and indefinitely by the war and the empire's delinquencies.

And all as a result contingent upon the failure of a criminal act! Felice Orsini meant to kill Napoleon III, and he and his two companions did kill ten innocent persons, and did wound one hundred and fifty others. Yet the man for whom their bombs were intended—the adventurer who had&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Ifs of History (1907).pdf/179</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4265414</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132021</id>
      <parentid>13355578</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:43:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <text bytes="728" sha1="gt1knzezjx2k1mrolq2pwf0iaeacsj6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;once been their comrade as a member of the Italian secret society, the Carbonari, but who had afterward betrayed the cause of Italian independence by leading an army into the peninsula and restoring the papal power—escaped unharmed, to wind the trail of his infamous conspiracies through European politics for twelve years longer. If the bomb had done its direful work, one man, utterly without character or conscience, would have died, and five hundred thousand men, mostly honest, good and true, would have lived. As it happened, the one man was spared, to make a vast holocaust of human life twelve years later.

It is, indeed, strange that the averting of a single crime may sometimes precipitate a myriad of other crimes.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Tree Crops; A Permanent Agriculture (1929).pdf/261</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4272443</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133334</id>
      <parentid>13539577</parentid>
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      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: lowa  →  Iowa</comment>
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      <text bytes="2482" sha1="ni3mi22wslcibbmn59pfu2ccbfc56m1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Jpez&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Easton, Maryland, contains the largest planted pecan tree known:&lt;ref&gt;Information, C. A. Reed. U. S. Department of Agriculture.
{{pbr}}
On Spesutia Island in the Chesapeake Bay, latitude 39° 15' is &quot;a giant one hundred and six feet tall. It has a spread of one hundred and ten feet. It has two limbs, respectively fifty-seven and sixty feet long, and is thirteen feet in circumference, three feet from the ground. It is an annual bearer of thin-shelled nuts that, though rather small now, are mighty good to eat.&quot;
{{pbr}}
&quot;A seedling from this tree is eighty feet tall with an equal spread and is a particularly beautiful tree—when I saw it there were two or three nuts on nearly every twig end. They are fair size too, very thin-shelled, and very pleasant-tasted.&quot; (Extract from newspaper article, by Wilmer Hoopes, Forest Hill, Md., information from Robert II. Smith, Spesutia Island, Perryman. Md., January 23, 1915.)&lt;/ref&gt; girth (1920) 15 feet breast high; reach 129 x 138. In 1927 it measured 16 feet, 1 inch girth at 4 feet, 6 inches.

There is a pecan tree at Sayville, Long Island, on the estate of Morris J. Terry which is &quot;45 years old, having a diameter of about two fect and bearing annually.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;''Long Island Agronomist,'' published for a time by the Long Island Railroad.&lt;/ref&gt;

In a park in Hartford, Connecticut, there is a pecan tree ten feet in circumference, perfectly hardy. It was planted as a nut in 1858 by Frederick Law Olmstead. It ripened at least one nut in the season of 1923.&lt;ref&gt;Information from Dr. W. C. Deming, long time Secretary of the Northern Nut Growers' Association. The tree would probably produce abundant crops except for a habit very common among pecans, namely that its pistillate blossoms do not mature at the same time as do its staminate blossoms.&lt;/ref&gt; It ripened that nut because Dr. W. C. Deming fertilized the blossom by hand with bitternut pollen, ''a very significant fact''.

The pecan is a native of North America. Therefore, it is accustomed to spring frosts by hundreds of thousands of years' experience. Therefore, it sleeps late in the spring. Therefore, it can survive winters in places where the summer will let it ripen its fruit rarely or possibly not at all. Hence such surprising facts as these: (1) Thrifty trees at Michigan Agricultural College, East Lansing, grown from Iowa seed planted

&lt;ref follow=&quot;p198&quot;&gt;hillside, and is reported to be bearing well. (Facts from J. F. Jones, Lancaster. Pennsylvania.)&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Life of Thomas Hardy - Brennecke.pdf/8</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <comment>Removing [[:c:File:Frontispiece_Page_Thomas_Hardy_1924_by_Augustus_John,_Fitzwilliam_Museum_Cambridge.jpg|Frontispiece_Page_Thomas_Hardy_1924_by_Augustus_John,_Fitzwilliam_Museum_Cambridge.jpg]], it has been deleted from Commons by [[:c:User:Infrogmation|</comment>
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      <text bytes="136" sha1="qc21c8a07rr80yjmcychrzz6yyq8rto" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Packer1028&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt; 

Thomas Hardy, 1923. From the painting by Augustus John, A.R.A. The original now hangs in the Fitzwilliam Museum, Cambridge.
{{dhr|3}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Masterpieces of Greek Literature (1902).djvu/95</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133257</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>/* top */ Common scannos., replaced: PORTKAIT → PORTRAIT</comment>
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      <text bytes="1091" sha1="tt5onzp4hnln59nnnizdewzgsz1su1k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Salema younus&quot; /&gt;{{rh|65|''HEADERTEXT''|65}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;THE PORTRAIT 65 

On his harp I sink in slumbers, 
Dreaming still of dulcet numbers ! 

*' This is all — away — away — 

You have made me waste the day. 

How 1 've chatter'd I prating crow 45 

Never yet did chatter so.&quot; 

THE PORTRAIT. ODE XVI. 
Thou, whose soft and rosy hues 
Mimic form and soul infuse, 
Best of painters, come portray 
The lovely maid that 's far away. 
Far away, my soul I thou art, * 

But I 've thy beauties all by heart. 
Paint her jetty ringlets playing. 
Silky locks, like tendrils straying ; 
And, if painting hath the skill 
To make the spicy balm distil, 10 

Let every little lock exhale 
A sigh of perfume on the gale. 
Where her tresses' curly flow 
Darkles o'er the brow of snow, 
Let her forehead beam to light, is 

Burnish'd as the iΛ^ory bright. 
Let her eyebrows smoothly rise 
In jetty arches o'er her eyes. 
Each, a crescent gently gliding. 
Just commingling, just dividing. 20 

But hast thou any sparkles warm. 
The lightning of her eyes to form ? 
Let them effuse the azure rays 
That in Minerva's glances blaze,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Roundheaded Wood Borers (Longhorned Beetles).pdf/1</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15131534</id>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */add images</comment>
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      <text bytes="4247" sha1="k5lddau9bli5g9sftain0lj0ve25xjv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Sp1nd01&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{xx-larger|'''Roundheaded Wood Borers'''&lt;/br&gt;'''(Longhorned Beetles)'''}}&lt;/br&gt;{{larger|White, splinter-like boring frass under bark}}}}

'''Name and Description—'''&lt;nowiki&gt;[&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[species:Coleoptera|Coleoptera]]: [[species:Cerambydicae|Cerambydicae]]&lt;nowiki&gt;]&lt;/nowiki&gt;

{|style=&quot;width:40%; float:right; padding:1em&quot;|
|-
|[[File:Roundheaded Wood Borers (Longhorned Beetles) - Figure 1.jpg|150px]] Figure 1. '''Adult pine sawyer, ''[[species:Monochamus clamator|Monochamus clamator]].''''' {{smaller|''Photo: Sheryl Costello, USDA Forest Service.''}}
|-
|[[File:Roundheaded Wood Borers (Longhorned Beetles) - Figure 2.jpg|150px]] Figure 2. '''Roundheaded wood borer larva.''' {{smaller|''Photo: Sheryl Costello, USDA Forest Service.''}}
|-
|[[File:Roundheaded Wood Borers (Longhorned Beetles) - Figure 3.jpg|150px]] Figure 3. '''White, splinter-like boring frass produced by roundheaded wood borers when feeding.''' {{smaller|''Photo: Sheryl Costello, USDA Forest Service.''}}
|-
|{{Image removed}} Figure 4. '''Exit holes of adult flatheaded wood borer.''' {{smaller|''Photo: Hannes Lemme, Germany, Bugwood.org.''}}
|}

Roundheaded wood borer beetles attack stressed, dying, or dead trees. There are many species all belonging to the beetle family [[species:Cerambydicae|Cerambydicae]]. Adult roundheaded wood borers are small to relatively large beetles (1/4-2 1/2 inches [6-64 mm]) and often have long antennae. The long antennae give them the name longhorned beetles (fig. 1). Larvae are white, legless grubs similar to bark beetle larvae, but the body shape is elongate, and the head area is primarily mouthparts without the more defined head capsule seen on bark beetle larvae (fig. 2).

One common group of longhorned beetles is the pine sawyers, ''[[species:Monochamus|Monochamus]]'' spp. Eggs are laid in egg niches chewed by the females, and larvae bore into sapwood and heartwood. Adults are large (1 inch, 25 mm long) with large antennae (fig. 1) and can be mistaken for the similar-appearing exotic Asian longhorned hardwood beetle (not established in this Region). Distinctive spots and antennal patterns can be used to identify the species. Pine sawyers are also responsible for spreading the pinewood nematode that causes pine wilt, a fatal disease of Scots, Austrian, and other non-native pines, that is currently affecting these species in the Midwest.

'''Hosts—'''Most western conifers; also found in hardwoods

'''Life Cycle—'''The life cycle frequently spans 1-3 years, but some species can take many more years to complete development. Roundheaded wood borer adults attack spring through fall, depending on species. Eggs are laid in the outer layers of the bark or by first chewing a slit (referred to as an egg niche) in the inner bark and depositing eggs into the moist inner layers of the bark. Larvae develop under the bark in the cambium. Several species also tunnel into the sapwood and heartwood. Most overwinter as larvae under the bark.

'''Damage—'''Roundheaded wood borer beetles attack weakened, dying, recently cut, and fire damaged or killed trees and can attack freshly cut timber before it is dried. Larvae that tunnel into the sapwood and heartwood can frequently damage logs and wood products. Adults aid in wood decomposition by introducing yeasts, bacteria, and wood-rotting fungi that lead to tree rot and checking in the wood. In some instances, these processes can occur within a couple of years. The most obvious sign of a roundheaded wood borer beetle attack is the egg niches that some beetles chew on the outer bark or the white, splinter-like boring frass that can be found under the bark (fig. 3). Larvae produce wide tunnels that meander under the bark. Holes that penetrate into the wood are most likely due to wood borer larvae. Emerging adults leave broadly oval to circular, cleanly cut exit holes (fig. 4).

'''Management—'''Because roundheaded beetles do not attack healthy trees, management should focus on preventing attacks on recently dead or felled&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/br&gt;
{|style=&quot;width:100%; margin:0 auto 0 auto;&quot;
|-
|style=&quot;text-align:right&quot;|Forest Health Protection
|[[File:Forest Service logo threshold.gif|50px|center]]
|style=&quot;text-align:left&quot;|Rocky Mountain Region • 2011
|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>k5lddau9bli5g9sftain0lj0ve25xjv</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Index talk:The Urantia Book, 1st Edition.djvu</title>
    <ns>107</ns>
    <id>4304104</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132891</id>
      <parentid>15114675</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:46:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Xaxafrad</username>
        <id>9974</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* 1st TOC complete */ new section</comment>
      <origin>15132891</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3883" sha1="118x9gn5yj6fdo1fcukmzkgzs80a838" xml:space="preserve">The Urantia Book is gigantic, and fully standardizing and validating this work will take some co-ordination on approaches to styling.
* '''Basics:'''
** Stick quotes and stick apostrophes, not the curly kind.
** One space after end of sentence.
** No spaces around em-dashes, and use true em-dashes, not hyphen our double-hyphen.
** For CSS, [[Help:Beginner's_guide_to_typography#Font face|no custom fonts]]. Avoid CSS styling on pages, make an index.css if needed.
** For italics, use &lt;nowiki&gt;''apostrophe styling''&lt;/nowiki&gt;
** &lt;nowiki&gt;{{nop}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; when a paragraph ends at page bottom, for proper transclusion.
** &lt;nowiki&gt;{{nop}}--blank line--{{nop}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; when a section ends at page bottom.
** Hyphenated words that break across page break do not need &lt;nowiki&gt;{{hws}} and {{hwe}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;. Just leave hyphen and transclusion solves it.

* '''Hyphenated words across linebreaks.''' Remove during proofreading. Some words have antiquated hyphenation that should be retained and not removed (e.g., &quot;co-operate&quot;)
* '''Linebreaks.''' For proofread stage, leave OCR hard linebreaks. For final validation, remove them.
** In a few instances, section titles span more than one line. Preserve the hard line breaks using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{br}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, but only if collapsing the linebreak would produce a strange result (e.g. text page 673 should keep a linebreak, but text page 1662 should collapse the linebreak).
* '''Paragraph gaps.''' There is often extra gapping between paragraphs to reflect breaks in thought. Two blank lines (three returns) should reflect this.
* '''B.C. and A.D.''' Use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{asc|B.C.}} and {{asc|A.D.}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* '''Poems.''' Use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{ppoem}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; for these few occurrences, so long stanzas that break to a second line hang properly as in the source work.
* '''Complex numbered lists.''' If they comprise multiple paragraphs per numbered item and/or span many pages, just standard paragraphs (not indented) like this: &lt;nowiki&gt;1. List item&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* '''Simple numbered lists.''' Use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{*!/s}}First item{{*!/i}}Second item{{*!/e}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* '''Lists with dots and numbers.''' Such as on text page 392. Use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{dtpl}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* '''Multilevel lists.''' Especially in Paper 30. Use &lt;nowiki&gt;: and ::&lt;/nowiki&gt; to indent as needed.
* '''Asterisks separating sections.''' use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{x-larger|{{***|x}}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; where x is the number of asterisks to put in.
* '''Em dashes or hard hyphens at end of page.''' use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{peh|x}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; where x is the character to put there, or blank for a - hyphen
* '''Running header.''' Each page gets one akin to &lt;nowiki&gt;{{rh|110|{{sc|Central and Superuniverses}}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; or &lt;nowiki&gt;{{rh||{{sc|Later Evolution of Religion}}|1005}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* '''Footer.''' Page numbers are at bottom only occasionally. Use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{c|123}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;. No &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;references /&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; as there are no footnotes in this work.


* '''Start of a paper:'''
 &lt;nowiki&gt;{{ph/leveled|level=2|{{fine|PAPER 2}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;
 &lt;nowiki&gt;THE NATURE OF GOD}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;
 (2 blank lines)
 &lt;nowiki&gt;{{di|F}}{{uc|irst words}} and more words&lt;/nowiki&gt;


* '''Section titles:''' 
 (2 blank lines separate section from end of previous section)
 &lt;nowiki&gt;{{ph/leveled|level=3|id=section1|1. TITLE}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; No em spaces for æsthetics.

== 1st TOC complete ==

After much tinkering, and failing to avoid creating new templates, I think I have the first TOC completely updated to the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{TOC begin/row/end}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; family. I couldn't include the dots as that produces too much underlying code to be properly transcluded. I joined the 4 parts together into one table, instead of 4, because the inconsistent column widths were increasingly unaesthetic. Likewise, I widened the scrollpane on the index page a bit.

I'll start working on the 2nd TOC now. [[User:Xaxafrad|Xaxafrad]] ([[User talk:Xaxafrad|talk]]) 02:46, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Deespirits.djvu/9</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4310229</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133508</id>
      <parentid>15103284</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T06:24:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>color</comment>
      <origin>15133508</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2066" sha1="4hlsi2oqk0dvch09rd74df23jg3lgwi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{border|padding=10px|compact=true|
{{border|padding=10px|compact=true|align=center|

{{larger|{{sc|A True &amp; Faithful}}}}&lt;br&gt;
{{xxxx-larger|{{sp|{{color|OrangeRed|RELATION}}}}}}&lt;br&gt;
{{larger|OF}}&lt;br&gt;
What pa{{ls}}{{ls}}ed for many Yeers Between&lt;br&gt;
{{xxx-larger|[[Author:John Dee|{{color|OrangeRed|D{{sup|{{xx-smaller|R}}}}. JOHN DEE}}]]}}&lt;br&gt;
(A Mathematician of Great Fame in [[Author:Elizabeth I of England|{{sc|Q. Eliz.}}]] and [[Author:James I of England and Ireland|King {{sc|James}}]] their Reignes) and&lt;br&gt;
{{xxx-larger|{{sc|{{color|OrangeRed|Some Spirits:}}}}}}&lt;br&gt;
{{sc|Tending}} (had it Succeeded)&lt;br&gt;
''To a General Alteration of mo{{ls}}t {{sp|STATES}} and {{sp|KINGDOMES}} in the World.''

His ''Private Conferences'' with {{sc|Rodolphe}} Emperor of ''Germany'', {{sc|Stephen}} K. of ''Poland'', and divers other {{sc|Princes}} about it.&lt;br&gt;
The Particulars of his Cau{{ls}}e as it was agitated in the ''Emperors'' Court;&lt;br&gt;
By the {{sc|Popes}} Intervention: His Bani{{ls}}hment, and Re{{ls}}toration in part.

{{rule}}

{{sc|{{sp|As Also}}}}&lt;br&gt;
{{xxx-larger|{{color|OrangeRed|The {{sc|Letters}} or Sundry Great Men}}}}&lt;br&gt;
and {{sc|Princes}} ({{ls}}ome whereof were pre{{ls}}ent at {{ls}}ome of the{{ls}}e Conferences and Apparitions of {{sc|Spirits}}:) to the {{ls}}aid {{sc|D.Dee}}.

{{rule}}

{{sc|Out Of}}&lt;br&gt;
The Original Copy, written with D{{sup|r}}. {{sc|Dees}} own Hand: Kept in the {{uc|library}} of&lt;br&gt;
{{larger|{{color|OrangeRed|Sir {{sp|THO. COTTON,}} K{{sup|t}}. Baronet}}}}

{{rule}}

WITH A&lt;br&gt;
{{xxxx-larger|{{sp|{{color|OrangeRed|PREFACE}}}}}}&lt;br&gt;
Confirming the ''Reality'' (as to the Point of {{sp|{{sc|Spirits}}}}) of This RELATION: and {{ls}}hewing the {{ls}}everal good {{sp|{{sc|Uses}}}} that a Sober Chri{{ls}}tian may make of All.
 
BY&lt;br&gt;
{{xxx-larger|{{sc|[[Author:Meric Casaubon|{{color|OrangeRed|Meric. Casaubon, D.D.}}]]}}}}

{{rule}}

{{sp|{{sc|''London''}}}},&lt;br&gt;Printed by D. Maxwell, for {{sc|T. Garthwait}}, and {{ls}}old at the Little North door of ''S. Pauls'', and by other Stationers. '''1659.'''
}}}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>User:SpikeShroom/Sandbox</title>
    <ns>2</ns>
    <id>4362617</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132291</id>
      <parentid>15124294</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:25:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SpikeShroom</username>
        <id>2925742</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15132291</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1759" sha1="iyapi3835kjacuuec03o759m9ip31h1" xml:space="preserve">== Table ==

&lt;!-- Table with title, cells, and colspan cell --&gt;
{| {{ts|ac}}
|+ '''Title'''
|-
| A || B
|-
|colspan=2| C
|}

ſ

See: ''Dict. of Spoken Spanish'' [[Page:Dictionary of spoken Spanish (1945).djvu/6|p. 6]], [[Page:Dictionary of spoken Spanish (1945).djvu/7|p. 7]]

&lt;!--&lt;pagelist
1to12=&quot;-&quot;
13=1
33=&quot;Plate&quot;
34=&quot;-&quot;
35=21
37=&quot;Map&quot;
38=&quot;Plate&quot;
39=&quot;Plate&quot;
40=23
42=&quot;Plate&quot;
43=&quot;-&quot;
44=25
72=&quot;Plate&quot;
73=&quot;-&quot;
74=53
80=&quot;Map&quot;
81=&quot;Plate&quot;
82=&quot;-&quot;
83=59
85=&quot;Plate&quot;
86=&quot;Plate&quot;
87=&quot;Map&quot;
88=61
90=&quot;Plate&quot;
91=&quot;-&quot;
92=63
148=&quot;Map&quot;
149=&quot;Plate&quot;
150=&quot;-&quot;
151=119
173=&quot;Plate&quot;
174=&quot;-&quot;
175=141
177=&quot;Map&quot;
178=&quot;Plate&quot;
179=&quot;-&quot;
180=143
182=&quot;Plate&quot;
183=&quot;-&quot;
184=145
200to203=&quot;Vig&quot;
204=161
208=&quot;Plate&quot;
209=&quot;-&quot;
210=165
238to242=&quot;Vig&quot;
242=193
316=&quot;Plate&quot;
317=&quot;-&quot;
318=267
342=&quot;Plate&quot;
343=&quot;-&quot;
344=291
350=&quot;Plate&quot;
351=&quot;-&quot;
352to354=296
355=300
370=&quot;Plate&quot;
371=&quot;Plate&quot;
372=315
374=&quot;Plate&quot;
375=317
377=&quot;Plate&quot;
378=&quot;-&quot;
379=319
382=&quot;Plate&quot;
383=321
481to488=&quot;Vig&quot;
489=419
491=&quot;-&quot;
492=&quot;Plate&quot;
493=&quot;Plate&quot;
494=&quot;-&quot;
495=421
511=&quot;-&quot;
512=&quot;Plate&quot;
513=437
/&gt; --&gt;

== Tables of Contents ==

Tables of Contents (TOCs) can be transcribed in various ways, with each having its own pros and cons.

=== Using the &quot;TOC row&quot; Templates ===

=== Using the &quot;TOCstyle&quot; Template ===

=== Using No TOC Templates ===

&lt;!--
{{rh||IMPORT DUTIES OF BOLIVIA.|ooo}}
{{c|{{asc|SECTION IV.—SILK}}—{{xs|Continued.}}

{{sm|[Duty 35 per cent.]}}}}

{{bc/s|width=100%}}
{| class=&quot;chart&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot;
|-
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Articles.
! Valuation.
|- class=&quot;top&quot;
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 
| Dollars.

|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| 
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | 
| 

|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | ooo ||

|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | {{dhr|0.5em}} ||

&lt;!-- NECESSARY BLANK LINE (DO NOT DELETE) --&gt;
|-
| width=&quot;80%&quot; |
| width=&quot;10%&quot; |
| width=&quot;10%&quot; |
|}
{{bc/e}}
--&gt;</text>
      <sha1>iyapi3835kjacuuec03o759m9ip31h1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Cremastra</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>4401628</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132407</id>
      <parentid>14871319</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:32:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Transactions and Proceedings of NZ Institute Vol 30 */ new section</comment>
      <origin>15132407</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8175" sha1="l2x1he8yusl0yv9fvya30ebih64lhz2" xml:space="preserve">{{Welcome}} --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:32, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Jan.Kamenicek}} Thanks! [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 23:41, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

== Voodoo formatting ==

Hi Cremastra,

I took a look at [[Page:Rudyard Kipling's verse - Inclusive Edition 1885-1918.djvu/243]] (and surrounding pages), and I wonder if perhaps you may have fallen pray to &quot;voodoo formatting&quot; (repeating formatting seen elsewhere without actual purpose). For example, why are you putting the entire page into {{tlx|block center/s}}/{{tlx|block center/e}}? What non-verse text there is in this work does not appear to be generally in a centered block (it just has normal margins). And poems formatted with {{tlx|ppoem}} are block centered regardless. And speaking of {{tlx|ppoem}}, why are you inserting &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;html&quot; inline&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt; tags there? The whole point of {{tl|ppoem}} is to preserve line wrapping so it does that regardless. I also see you're using {{tlx|gap}} templates for indentation, but {{tl|ppoem}} has syntax specifically for indentation (&lt;code&gt;:&lt;/code&gt; at the start of a line; add more colons for more indentation).

But, conversely,  when you use {{tl|ppoem}} to format a poem that stretches over multiple pages you need to tell each invocation how it is to connect with the next and previous one. For example, on the first page you need to tell {{tl|ppoem}} whether it ends in the middle of a verse line, between one line and the next within a single stanza, or at the end of a stanza. Use {{para|end|[''continue''{{!}}''follow''{{!}}''stanza'']}} (pick the relevant one). And on the next page you need to tell it how its contents ''start'': {{para|start|[''continue''{{!}}''follow''{{!}}''stanza'']}}. On middle pages you'll need both {{para|start}} and {{para|end}}. At the very beginning and end of a poem you don't need to specify anything.

I've fixed &quot;[[Rudyard Kipling's Verse, Inclusive Edition, 1885-1918/The Irish Guards|The Irish Guards]]&quot; (and only that poem, not the others on the page) to show what I mean. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 20:01, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks for the help, {{ping|Xover}}. I was trying to follow the suggestions at [[Index_talk:Rudyard_Kipling's_verse_-_Inclusive_Edition_1885-1918.djvu#Formatting_as_of_2023]]. However, I realize I was mixing the [[Index_talk:Rudyard_Kipling's_verse_-_Inclusive_Edition_1885-1918.djvu#Formatting_proposal|earlier proposal]] and the [[Index_talk:Rudyard_Kipling's_verse_-_Inclusive_Edition_1885-1918.djvu#Formatting_as_of_2023|more recent one]], causing the redundant formatting. The center block tags were already placed in the header by other contributors. Sorry for the mistakes. Thanks, [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 20:44, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

== Sophocles' King Oedipus ==

If you are able to validate ll (or even most) of this work, it would be greatly appreciated.  This is a potential candidate for a Feature work, given that both its original author and its translator are highly regarded and the play was the one Aristotle singled out as the epitome of drama. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks, I'll see what I can do. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 20:58, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

== Tables of Contents ==

The table of contents should never link to the Page namesapce, but to the place in the Mainspace where the transcluded copy will be. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:03, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

:OK, thanks. I'll fix that shortly. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 23:04, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sea spray and smoke drift/From Lightning and Tempest]] ==

It seems to me that this is using inconsistent capitalisation. Either &quot;Sea Spray and Smoke Drift&quot; or &quot;From lightning and tempest&quot; but not this mixture, surely ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:24, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== New texts archiving ==

Thanks for archiving December.  I've set things up to list 2024 now as well. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

:Though I think that you have put both November's and December's on to December's. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:02, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Beardo}} I don't think so, unless I missed something. The last text listed on the December page is ''The Beloved Rogue'', which was [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:New_texts&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=13688108 added on Dec 1]. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 01:55, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
:::Ah no, sorry - you had left the November entries on the main page. Now moved. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:44, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
::::Thanks, I forgot about November. Cheers, [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 13:21, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

== Validated texts link on the April News ==

Hi, the count you've got comes from [[:Category:Validated texts]], but this category is very incomplete and also has a lot of subpages, which are arguable as to whether they constitute a separate text or not. The better count would be to use [[:Category:Index Validated]], where we've got 6,210 works. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:44, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks, I thought that count seemed a little low. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 19:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

== [[NOAA Storm Events Database – 2021 Western Kentucky tornado]] ==

Hey Cremastra! I have been working on the [[NOAA Storm Events Database – 2021 Western Kentucky tornado]], which is a set of 14 webpages from the U.S. government. I did some level of organization for the 14 pages, but I am unsure if I did the organization appropriately or the best way. Could you take a look at it and let me know if there is a better way on Wikisource to organize pages like that? Thank you! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 20:36, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] Well, I'm flattered by your confidence in me. I don't really know much about how Wikisource formats webpages, so [[WS:S/H]] is probably a better bet. It looks good on a glance, though (although {{tl|textinfo}} goes on talk pages, not at the bottom of texts.) Cheers, [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 20:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

== Wikisource News ==

The '''[[en:WS:News/2024-10|latest edition]]''' of [[en:WS:News|WS:News]] is out. Please enjoy. You are welcome to unsubscribe from these notifications by [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Wikisource News (en)|removing your name from this list]]. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 15:56, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:AramilFeraxa@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikisource_News_(en)&amp;oldid=27551395 --&gt;

== Punch Vol 44 ==

Hello - I was looking at the ''recent edits'' and happened to see that you've created [[Index:Punch_(IA_punchv44lemo).pdf]]. I'm also slowly working through issues of Punch (in my case from the first world war), and just wanted to say good luck! It's nice to see someone else interested in the periodical. What made you pick this particular volume?
[[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 17:53, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Transactions and Proceedings of NZ Institute Vol 30 ==

Hi, we already have a copy of this Index at [[Index:Transactions_NZ_Institute_Volume_30.djvu]]. Please focus your efforts there rather than on the pdf. I will move the pages you have proofread across, so as not to lose what you've done. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 21:32, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>l2x1he8yusl0yv9fvya30ebih64lhz2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132433</id>
      <parentid>15132407</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:45:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cremastra</username>
        <id>3085872</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Transactions and Proceedings of NZ Institute Vol 30 */ Reply</comment>
      <origin>15132433</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text bytes="8281" sha1="3c0h7m0lvxtrneh0ghpaglf7aiqhcvd" xml:space="preserve">{{Welcome}} --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:32, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Jan.Kamenicek}} Thanks! [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 23:41, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

== Voodoo formatting ==

Hi Cremastra,

I took a look at [[Page:Rudyard Kipling's verse - Inclusive Edition 1885-1918.djvu/243]] (and surrounding pages), and I wonder if perhaps you may have fallen pray to &quot;voodoo formatting&quot; (repeating formatting seen elsewhere without actual purpose). For example, why are you putting the entire page into {{tlx|block center/s}}/{{tlx|block center/e}}? What non-verse text there is in this work does not appear to be generally in a centered block (it just has normal margins). And poems formatted with {{tlx|ppoem}} are block centered regardless. And speaking of {{tlx|ppoem}}, why are you inserting &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;html&quot; inline&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt; tags there? The whole point of {{tl|ppoem}} is to preserve line wrapping so it does that regardless. I also see you're using {{tlx|gap}} templates for indentation, but {{tl|ppoem}} has syntax specifically for indentation (&lt;code&gt;:&lt;/code&gt; at the start of a line; add more colons for more indentation).

But, conversely,  when you use {{tl|ppoem}} to format a poem that stretches over multiple pages you need to tell each invocation how it is to connect with the next and previous one. For example, on the first page you need to tell {{tl|ppoem}} whether it ends in the middle of a verse line, between one line and the next within a single stanza, or at the end of a stanza. Use {{para|end|[''continue''{{!}}''follow''{{!}}''stanza'']}} (pick the relevant one). And on the next page you need to tell it how its contents ''start'': {{para|start|[''continue''{{!}}''follow''{{!}}''stanza'']}}. On middle pages you'll need both {{para|start}} and {{para|end}}. At the very beginning and end of a poem you don't need to specify anything.

I've fixed &quot;[[Rudyard Kipling's Verse, Inclusive Edition, 1885-1918/The Irish Guards|The Irish Guards]]&quot; (and only that poem, not the others on the page) to show what I mean. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 20:01, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks for the help, {{ping|Xover}}. I was trying to follow the suggestions at [[Index_talk:Rudyard_Kipling's_verse_-_Inclusive_Edition_1885-1918.djvu#Formatting_as_of_2023]]. However, I realize I was mixing the [[Index_talk:Rudyard_Kipling's_verse_-_Inclusive_Edition_1885-1918.djvu#Formatting_proposal|earlier proposal]] and the [[Index_talk:Rudyard_Kipling's_verse_-_Inclusive_Edition_1885-1918.djvu#Formatting_as_of_2023|more recent one]], causing the redundant formatting. The center block tags were already placed in the header by other contributors. Sorry for the mistakes. Thanks, [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 20:44, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

== Sophocles' King Oedipus ==

If you are able to validate ll (or even most) of this work, it would be greatly appreciated.  This is a potential candidate for a Feature work, given that both its original author and its translator are highly regarded and the play was the one Aristotle singled out as the epitome of drama. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks, I'll see what I can do. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 20:58, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

== Tables of Contents ==

The table of contents should never link to the Page namesapce, but to the place in the Mainspace where the transcluded copy will be. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:03, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

:OK, thanks. I'll fix that shortly. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 23:04, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sea spray and smoke drift/From Lightning and Tempest]] ==

It seems to me that this is using inconsistent capitalisation. Either &quot;Sea Spray and Smoke Drift&quot; or &quot;From lightning and tempest&quot; but not this mixture, surely ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:24, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== New texts archiving ==

Thanks for archiving December.  I've set things up to list 2024 now as well. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

:Though I think that you have put both November's and December's on to December's. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:02, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Beardo}} I don't think so, unless I missed something. The last text listed on the December page is ''The Beloved Rogue'', which was [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:New_texts&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=13688108 added on Dec 1]. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 01:55, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
:::Ah no, sorry - you had left the November entries on the main page. Now moved. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:44, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
::::Thanks, I forgot about November. Cheers, [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 13:21, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

== Validated texts link on the April News ==

Hi, the count you've got comes from [[:Category:Validated texts]], but this category is very incomplete and also has a lot of subpages, which are arguable as to whether they constitute a separate text or not. The better count would be to use [[:Category:Index Validated]], where we've got 6,210 works. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:44, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks, I thought that count seemed a little low. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 19:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

== [[NOAA Storm Events Database – 2021 Western Kentucky tornado]] ==

Hey Cremastra! I have been working on the [[NOAA Storm Events Database – 2021 Western Kentucky tornado]], which is a set of 14 webpages from the U.S. government. I did some level of organization for the 14 pages, but I am unsure if I did the organization appropriately or the best way. Could you take a look at it and let me know if there is a better way on Wikisource to organize pages like that? Thank you! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 20:36, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] Well, I'm flattered by your confidence in me. I don't really know much about how Wikisource formats webpages, so [[WS:S/H]] is probably a better bet. It looks good on a glance, though (although {{tl|textinfo}} goes on talk pages, not at the bottom of texts.) Cheers, [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 20:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

== Wikisource News ==

The '''[[en:WS:News/2024-10|latest edition]]''' of [[en:WS:News|WS:News]] is out. Please enjoy. You are welcome to unsubscribe from these notifications by [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Wikisource News (en)|removing your name from this list]]. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 15:56, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:AramilFeraxa@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikisource_News_(en)&amp;oldid=27551395 --&gt;

== Punch Vol 44 ==

Hello - I was looking at the ''recent edits'' and happened to see that you've created [[Index:Punch_(IA_punchv44lemo).pdf]]. I'm also slowly working through issues of Punch (in my case from the first world war), and just wanted to say good luck! It's nice to see someone else interested in the periodical. What made you pick this particular volume?
[[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 17:53, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Transactions and Proceedings of NZ Institute Vol 30 ==

Hi, we already have a copy of this Index at [[Index:Transactions_NZ_Institute_Volume_30.djvu]]. Please focus your efforts there rather than on the pdf. I will move the pages you have proofread across, so as not to lose what you've done. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 21:32, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Oops, thanks. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 21:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3c0h7m0lvxtrneh0ghpaglf7aiqhcvd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132458</id>
      <parentid>15132433</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:59:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <comment>/* Transactions and Proceedings of NZ Institute Vol 30 */ Reply</comment>
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      <text bytes="8517" sha1="1r0bdablbhkytfl69fvb2r73ipu8btf" xml:space="preserve">{{Welcome}} --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:32, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Jan.Kamenicek}} Thanks! [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 23:41, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

== Voodoo formatting ==

Hi Cremastra,

I took a look at [[Page:Rudyard Kipling's verse - Inclusive Edition 1885-1918.djvu/243]] (and surrounding pages), and I wonder if perhaps you may have fallen pray to &quot;voodoo formatting&quot; (repeating formatting seen elsewhere without actual purpose). For example, why are you putting the entire page into {{tlx|block center/s}}/{{tlx|block center/e}}? What non-verse text there is in this work does not appear to be generally in a centered block (it just has normal margins). And poems formatted with {{tlx|ppoem}} are block centered regardless. And speaking of {{tlx|ppoem}}, why are you inserting &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;html&quot; inline&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt; tags there? The whole point of {{tl|ppoem}} is to preserve line wrapping so it does that regardless. I also see you're using {{tlx|gap}} templates for indentation, but {{tl|ppoem}} has syntax specifically for indentation (&lt;code&gt;:&lt;/code&gt; at the start of a line; add more colons for more indentation).

But, conversely,  when you use {{tl|ppoem}} to format a poem that stretches over multiple pages you need to tell each invocation how it is to connect with the next and previous one. For example, on the first page you need to tell {{tl|ppoem}} whether it ends in the middle of a verse line, between one line and the next within a single stanza, or at the end of a stanza. Use {{para|end|[''continue''{{!}}''follow''{{!}}''stanza'']}} (pick the relevant one). And on the next page you need to tell it how its contents ''start'': {{para|start|[''continue''{{!}}''follow''{{!}}''stanza'']}}. On middle pages you'll need both {{para|start}} and {{para|end}}. At the very beginning and end of a poem you don't need to specify anything.

I've fixed &quot;[[Rudyard Kipling's Verse, Inclusive Edition, 1885-1918/The Irish Guards|The Irish Guards]]&quot; (and only that poem, not the others on the page) to show what I mean. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 20:01, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks for the help, {{ping|Xover}}. I was trying to follow the suggestions at [[Index_talk:Rudyard_Kipling's_verse_-_Inclusive_Edition_1885-1918.djvu#Formatting_as_of_2023]]. However, I realize I was mixing the [[Index_talk:Rudyard_Kipling's_verse_-_Inclusive_Edition_1885-1918.djvu#Formatting_proposal|earlier proposal]] and the [[Index_talk:Rudyard_Kipling's_verse_-_Inclusive_Edition_1885-1918.djvu#Formatting_as_of_2023|more recent one]], causing the redundant formatting. The center block tags were already placed in the header by other contributors. Sorry for the mistakes. Thanks, [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 20:44, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

== Sophocles' King Oedipus ==

If you are able to validate ll (or even most) of this work, it would be greatly appreciated.  This is a potential candidate for a Feature work, given that both its original author and its translator are highly regarded and the play was the one Aristotle singled out as the epitome of drama. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks, I'll see what I can do. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 20:58, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

== Tables of Contents ==

The table of contents should never link to the Page namesapce, but to the place in the Mainspace where the transcluded copy will be. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:03, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

:OK, thanks. I'll fix that shortly. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 23:04, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

== [[Sea spray and smoke drift/From Lightning and Tempest]] ==

It seems to me that this is using inconsistent capitalisation. Either &quot;Sea Spray and Smoke Drift&quot; or &quot;From lightning and tempest&quot; but not this mixture, surely ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:24, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== New texts archiving ==

Thanks for archiving December.  I've set things up to list 2024 now as well. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

:Though I think that you have put both November's and December's on to December's. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:02, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Beardo}} I don't think so, unless I missed something. The last text listed on the December page is ''The Beloved Rogue'', which was [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:New_texts&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=13688108 added on Dec 1]. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 01:55, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
:::Ah no, sorry - you had left the November entries on the main page. Now moved. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:44, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
::::Thanks, I forgot about November. Cheers, [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 13:21, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

== Validated texts link on the April News ==

Hi, the count you've got comes from [[:Category:Validated texts]], but this category is very incomplete and also has a lot of subpages, which are arguable as to whether they constitute a separate text or not. The better count would be to use [[:Category:Index Validated]], where we've got 6,210 works. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:44, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks, I thought that count seemed a little low. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 19:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

== [[NOAA Storm Events Database – 2021 Western Kentucky tornado]] ==

Hey Cremastra! I have been working on the [[NOAA Storm Events Database – 2021 Western Kentucky tornado]], which is a set of 14 webpages from the U.S. government. I did some level of organization for the 14 pages, but I am unsure if I did the organization appropriately or the best way. Could you take a look at it and let me know if there is a better way on Wikisource to organize pages like that? Thank you! [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 20:36, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] Well, I'm flattered by your confidence in me. I don't really know much about how Wikisource formats webpages, so [[WS:S/H]] is probably a better bet. It looks good on a glance, though (although {{tl|textinfo}} goes on talk pages, not at the bottom of texts.) Cheers, [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 20:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

== Wikisource News ==

The '''[[en:WS:News/2024-10|latest edition]]''' of [[en:WS:News|WS:News]] is out. Please enjoy. You are welcome to unsubscribe from these notifications by [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Wikisource News (en)|removing your name from this list]]. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 15:56, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:AramilFeraxa@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikisource_News_(en)&amp;oldid=27551395 --&gt;

== Punch Vol 44 ==

Hello - I was looking at the ''recent edits'' and happened to see that you've created [[Index:Punch_(IA_punchv44lemo).pdf]]. I'm also slowly working through issues of Punch (in my case from the first world war), and just wanted to say good luck! It's nice to see someone else interested in the periodical. What made you pick this particular volume?
[[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 17:53, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Transactions and Proceedings of NZ Institute Vol 30 ==

Hi, we already have a copy of this Index at [[Index:Transactions_NZ_Institute_Volume_30.djvu]]. Please focus your efforts there rather than on the pdf. I will move the pages you have proofread across, so as not to lose what you've done. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 21:32, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Oops, thanks. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra#top|talk]]) 21:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::And I've transcluded the first Regalecus article at [[Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 27]]. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 21:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1r0bdablbhkytfl69fvb2r73ipu8btf</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:ColossalMemer</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
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      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1 */ new section</comment>
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      <text bytes="4466" sha1="mk5ph77vjtxks5rvsobfk3thndb9wvq" xml:space="preserve">==Welcome==
'''Welcome'''

Hello, ColossalMemer, and [[Help:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikisource!  Thank you for joining the project&lt;!-- end of page --&gt;&lt;!-- end of newpage --&gt;&lt;!-- end of pagefix --&gt;.   I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
[[file:George Eliot, por François D'Albert Durade.jpg |frameless|right|]]
* [[Help:Contents|Help pages]], especially for [[Help:Proofread|proofreading]]
* [[Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource]]
* [[Wikisource:Style guide|Style guide]]
* [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|Inclusion policy]]
* [[Wikisource:For Wikipedians]]

You may be interested in participating in
* [[Wikisource:Proofread of the Month|Proofread of the Month]] 
* [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge|Monthly Challenge]] 
* [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/Nominations|Requested texts]]
Add the code {{tl|active projects}}, {{tl|PotM}} or {{tl|Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your [[User:ColossalMemer|user page]] and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either
* [[Wikisource:Scriptorium]]; or
* [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use!  In discussions, please &quot;sign&quot; your comments using four tildes (&lt;nowiki&gt;~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click '''&lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ColossalMemer&amp;action=edit&amp;section=new edit]&lt;/span&gt;''') and place &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[:Category:Users looking for help|helpme]]&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; before your question.

Again, welcome!  &lt;!-- Template:welcome --&gt; -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

== Category:Pages with foreign language text ==

This is a maintenance category, and items should not be placed into the category unless there is a problem that needs correcting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== License ==

''All'' works hosted on Wikisource are required to have a license template describing the work's copyright status. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:58, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

Hello again. What language is this work in ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 06:37, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

:This is a work in Latin about the English language. There are many passages such as Psalms and Spenserian poetry in English written in a phonetic alphabet. Since the scans have two pages to a single Index page, I moved my transcription/translation work here instead: [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu|Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur]]. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 03:53, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Oh ! How complicated ! Thanks. Good luck. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:09, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you as well! [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 05:19, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::So should the original index be deleted ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:53, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that might be the best option for now. I don't know how to deal with Index pages that show two pages of the actual work at once, but there may be a discussion about it already e.g. for manuscripts. At the very least the original file should still be kept on Commons for archival purposes. Thanks. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 14:33, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1]] ==

Please note that English wikisource requires that there be a scan-backed copy in the original language before it accepts a user translation into English. [[WS:Translations#Wikisource_original_translations]] Is there one for this ?

Also, why did you use override author and mot link the author ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mk5ph77vjtxks5rvsobfk3thndb9wvq</sha1>
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      <comment>/* Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf */ Reply</comment>
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      <text bytes="4774" sha1="oow5mjx6ud8slga2qoknne6n1keezyk" xml:space="preserve">==Welcome==
'''Welcome'''

Hello, ColossalMemer, and [[Help:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikisource!  Thank you for joining the project&lt;!-- end of page --&gt;&lt;!-- end of newpage --&gt;&lt;!-- end of pagefix --&gt;.   I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
[[file:George Eliot, por François D'Albert Durade.jpg |frameless|right|]]
* [[Help:Contents|Help pages]], especially for [[Help:Proofread|proofreading]]
* [[Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource]]
* [[Wikisource:Style guide|Style guide]]
* [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|Inclusion policy]]
* [[Wikisource:For Wikipedians]]

You may be interested in participating in
* [[Wikisource:Proofread of the Month|Proofread of the Month]] 
* [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge|Monthly Challenge]] 
* [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/Nominations|Requested texts]]
Add the code {{tl|active projects}}, {{tl|PotM}} or {{tl|Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your [[User:ColossalMemer|user page]] and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either
* [[Wikisource:Scriptorium]]; or
* [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use!  In discussions, please &quot;sign&quot; your comments using four tildes (&lt;nowiki&gt;~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click '''&lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ColossalMemer&amp;action=edit&amp;section=new edit]&lt;/span&gt;''') and place &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[:Category:Users looking for help|helpme]]&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; before your question.

Again, welcome!  &lt;!-- Template:welcome --&gt; -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

== Category:Pages with foreign language text ==

This is a maintenance category, and items should not be placed into the category unless there is a problem that needs correcting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== License ==

''All'' works hosted on Wikisource are required to have a license template describing the work's copyright status. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:58, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

Hello again. What language is this work in ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 06:37, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

:This is a work in Latin about the English language. There are many passages such as Psalms and Spenserian poetry in English written in a phonetic alphabet. Since the scans have two pages to a single Index page, I moved my transcription/translation work here instead: [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu|Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur]]. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 03:53, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Oh ! How complicated ! Thanks. Good luck. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:09, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you as well! [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 05:19, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::So should the original index be deleted ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:53, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that might be the best option for now. I don't know how to deal with Index pages that show two pages of the actual work at once, but there may be a discussion about it already e.g. for manuscripts. At the very least the original file should still be kept on Commons for archival purposes. Thanks. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 14:33, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::OK - but I don't see any reason to keep that index on wikisource - I have put it for deletion here - [[Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#Index:Logonomia_Anglica,_1621.pdf]]. I agree that the scan on Commons can be left there. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:38, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1]] ==

Please note that English wikisource requires that there be a scan-backed copy in the original language before it accepts a user translation into English. [[WS:Translations#Wikisource_original_translations]] Is there one for this ?

Also, why did you use override author and mot link the author ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oow5mjx6ud8slga2qoknne6n1keezyk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132325</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:39:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1 */</comment>
      <origin>15132325</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4774" sha1="imcacleoe1d3nfow7fgr2cjorq2ywmh" xml:space="preserve">==Welcome==
'''Welcome'''

Hello, ColossalMemer, and [[Help:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikisource!  Thank you for joining the project&lt;!-- end of page --&gt;&lt;!-- end of newpage --&gt;&lt;!-- end of pagefix --&gt;.   I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
[[file:George Eliot, por François D'Albert Durade.jpg |frameless|right|]]
* [[Help:Contents|Help pages]], especially for [[Help:Proofread|proofreading]]
* [[Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource]]
* [[Wikisource:Style guide|Style guide]]
* [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|Inclusion policy]]
* [[Wikisource:For Wikipedians]]

You may be interested in participating in
* [[Wikisource:Proofread of the Month|Proofread of the Month]] 
* [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge|Monthly Challenge]] 
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Add the code {{tl|active projects}}, {{tl|PotM}} or {{tl|Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your [[User:ColossalMemer|user page]] and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either
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* [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use!  In discussions, please &quot;sign&quot; your comments using four tildes (&lt;nowiki&gt;~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click '''&lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ColossalMemer&amp;action=edit&amp;section=new edit]&lt;/span&gt;''') and place &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[:Category:Users looking for help|helpme]]&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; before your question.

Again, welcome!  &lt;!-- Template:welcome --&gt; -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

== Category:Pages with foreign language text ==

This is a maintenance category, and items should not be placed into the category unless there is a problem that needs correcting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== License ==

''All'' works hosted on Wikisource are required to have a license template describing the work's copyright status. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:58, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

Hello again. What language is this work in ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 06:37, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

:This is a work in Latin about the English language. There are many passages such as Psalms and Spenserian poetry in English written in a phonetic alphabet. Since the scans have two pages to a single Index page, I moved my transcription/translation work here instead: [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu|Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur]]. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 03:53, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Oh ! How complicated ! Thanks. Good luck. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:09, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you as well! [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 05:19, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::So should the original index be deleted ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:53, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that might be the best option for now. I don't know how to deal with Index pages that show two pages of the actual work at once, but there may be a discussion about it already e.g. for manuscripts. At the very least the original file should still be kept on Commons for archival purposes. Thanks. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 14:33, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::OK - but I don't see any reason to keep that index on wikisource - I have put it for deletion here - [[Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#Index:Logonomia_Anglica,_1621.pdf]]. I agree that the scan on Commons can be left there. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:38, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1]] ==

Please note that English wikisource requires that there be a scan-backed copy in the original language before it accepts a user translation into English. [[WS:Translations#Wikisource_original_translations]] Is there one for this ?

Also, why did you use override author and not link the author ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>imcacleoe1d3nfow7fgr2cjorq2ywmh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132641</id>
      <parentid>15132325</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:50:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ColossalMemer</username>
        <id>3095339</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1 */ Reply</comment>
      <origin>15132641</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5273" sha1="hoqdwhjupakpkn7hhkfhx83edo2bg67" xml:space="preserve">==Welcome==
'''Welcome'''

Hello, ColossalMemer, and [[Help:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikisource!  Thank you for joining the project&lt;!-- end of page --&gt;&lt;!-- end of newpage --&gt;&lt;!-- end of pagefix --&gt;.   I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
[[file:George Eliot, por François D'Albert Durade.jpg |frameless|right|]]
* [[Help:Contents|Help pages]], especially for [[Help:Proofread|proofreading]]
* [[Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource]]
* [[Wikisource:Style guide|Style guide]]
* [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|Inclusion policy]]
* [[Wikisource:For Wikipedians]]

You may be interested in participating in
* [[Wikisource:Proofread of the Month|Proofread of the Month]] 
* [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge|Monthly Challenge]] 
* [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/Nominations|Requested texts]]
Add the code {{tl|active projects}}, {{tl|PotM}} or {{tl|Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your [[User:ColossalMemer|user page]] and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either
* [[Wikisource:Scriptorium]]; or
* [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use!  In discussions, please &quot;sign&quot; your comments using four tildes (&lt;nowiki&gt;~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click '''&lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ColossalMemer&amp;action=edit&amp;section=new edit]&lt;/span&gt;''') and place &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[:Category:Users looking for help|helpme]]&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; before your question.

Again, welcome!  &lt;!-- Template:welcome --&gt; -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

== Category:Pages with foreign language text ==

This is a maintenance category, and items should not be placed into the category unless there is a problem that needs correcting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== License ==

''All'' works hosted on Wikisource are required to have a license template describing the work's copyright status. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:58, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

Hello again. What language is this work in ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 06:37, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

:This is a work in Latin about the English language. There are many passages such as Psalms and Spenserian poetry in English written in a phonetic alphabet. Since the scans have two pages to a single Index page, I moved my transcription/translation work here instead: [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu|Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur]]. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 03:53, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Oh ! How complicated ! Thanks. Good luck. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:09, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you as well! [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 05:19, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::So should the original index be deleted ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:53, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that might be the best option for now. I don't know how to deal with Index pages that show two pages of the actual work at once, but there may be a discussion about it already e.g. for manuscripts. At the very least the original file should still be kept on Commons for archival purposes. Thanks. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 14:33, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::OK - but I don't see any reason to keep that index on wikisource - I have put it for deletion here - [[Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#Index:Logonomia_Anglica,_1621.pdf]]. I agree that the scan on Commons can be left there. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:38, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1]] ==

Please note that English wikisource requires that there be a scan-backed copy in the original language before it accepts a user translation into English. [[WS:Translations#Wikisource_original_translations]] Is there one for this ?

Also, why did you use override author and not link the author ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:I'm working on a transcription of the original Spanish, I just have to fix some formatting and semantic tagging issues.
:I plan to create an author page for Gaspar de San Agustín soon, but I honestly don't know what elements it should have and what categories to place it in.
:A follow-up question: can Translation: pages have translated titles or should they have the original language title? [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 00:50, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hoqdwhjupakpkn7hhkfhx83edo2bg67</sha1>
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      <contributor>
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        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1 */ Reply</comment>
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      <text bytes="5630" sha1="sq9a4r5gmbow5ps4fnqothexad2cf6k" xml:space="preserve">==Welcome==
'''Welcome'''

Hello, ColossalMemer, and [[Help:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikisource!  Thank you for joining the project&lt;!-- end of page --&gt;&lt;!-- end of newpage --&gt;&lt;!-- end of pagefix --&gt;.   I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
[[file:George Eliot, por François D'Albert Durade.jpg |frameless|right|]]
* [[Help:Contents|Help pages]], especially for [[Help:Proofread|proofreading]]
* [[Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource]]
* [[Wikisource:Style guide|Style guide]]
* [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|Inclusion policy]]
* [[Wikisource:For Wikipedians]]

You may be interested in participating in
* [[Wikisource:Proofread of the Month|Proofread of the Month]] 
* [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge|Monthly Challenge]] 
* [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/Nominations|Requested texts]]
Add the code {{tl|active projects}}, {{tl|PotM}} or {{tl|Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your [[User:ColossalMemer|user page]] and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either
* [[Wikisource:Scriptorium]]; or
* [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use!  In discussions, please &quot;sign&quot; your comments using four tildes (&lt;nowiki&gt;~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click '''&lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ColossalMemer&amp;action=edit&amp;section=new edit]&lt;/span&gt;''') and place &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[:Category:Users looking for help|helpme]]&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; before your question.

Again, welcome!  &lt;!-- Template:welcome --&gt; -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

== Category:Pages with foreign language text ==

This is a maintenance category, and items should not be placed into the category unless there is a problem that needs correcting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== License ==

''All'' works hosted on Wikisource are required to have a license template describing the work's copyright status. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:58, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

Hello again. What language is this work in ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 06:37, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

:This is a work in Latin about the English language. There are many passages such as Psalms and Spenserian poetry in English written in a phonetic alphabet. Since the scans have two pages to a single Index page, I moved my transcription/translation work here instead: [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu|Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur]]. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 03:53, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Oh ! How complicated ! Thanks. Good luck. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:09, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you as well! [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 05:19, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::So should the original index be deleted ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:53, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that might be the best option for now. I don't know how to deal with Index pages that show two pages of the actual work at once, but there may be a discussion about it already e.g. for manuscripts. At the very least the original file should still be kept on Commons for archival purposes. Thanks. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 14:33, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::OK - but I don't see any reason to keep that index on wikisource - I have put it for deletion here - [[Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#Index:Logonomia_Anglica,_1621.pdf]]. I agree that the scan on Commons can be left there. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:38, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1]] ==

Please note that English wikisource requires that there be a scan-backed copy in the original language before it accepts a user translation into English. [[WS:Translations#Wikisource_original_translations]] Is there one for this ?

Also, why did you use override author and not link the author ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:I'm working on a transcription of the original Spanish, I just have to fix some formatting and semantic tagging issues.
:I plan to create an author page for Gaspar de San Agustín soon, but I honestly don't know what elements it should have and what categories to place it in.
:A follow-up question: can Translation: pages have translated titles or should they have the original language title? [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 00:50, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
::Noted, thanks.
::If you click on the tool, you just need to include the name (and first two letters of the surname), a work and copyright licence. Other things can be added later.
::I don't know if there is a rule about the titles - but I think normally they are translated. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:55, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sq9a4r5gmbow5ps4fnqothexad2cf6k</sha1>
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        <id>3095339</id>
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      <comment>/* Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1 */ Reply</comment>
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      <text bytes="5770" sha1="6x9z2h6w13qvsrwiatehtnelt3mtdzs" xml:space="preserve">==Welcome==
'''Welcome'''

Hello, ColossalMemer, and [[Help:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikisource!  Thank you for joining the project&lt;!-- end of page --&gt;&lt;!-- end of newpage --&gt;&lt;!-- end of pagefix --&gt;.   I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
[[file:George Eliot, por François D'Albert Durade.jpg |frameless|right|]]
* [[Help:Contents|Help pages]], especially for [[Help:Proofread|proofreading]]
* [[Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource]]
* [[Wikisource:Style guide|Style guide]]
* [[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes|Inclusion policy]]
* [[Wikisource:For Wikipedians]]

You may be interested in participating in
* [[Wikisource:Proofread of the Month|Proofread of the Month]] 
* [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge|Monthly Challenge]] 
* [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/Nominations|Requested texts]]
Add the code {{tl|active projects}}, {{tl|PotM}} or {{tl|Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your [[User:ColossalMemer|user page]] and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either
* [[Wikisource:Scriptorium]]; or
* [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]]

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use!  In discussions, please &quot;sign&quot; your comments using four tildes (&lt;nowiki&gt;~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click '''&lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ColossalMemer&amp;action=edit&amp;section=new edit]&lt;/span&gt;''') and place &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[:Category:Users looking for help|helpme]]&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; before your question.

Again, welcome!  &lt;!-- Template:welcome --&gt; -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

== Category:Pages with foreign language text ==

This is a maintenance category, and items should not be placed into the category unless there is a problem that needs correcting. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== License ==

''All'' works hosted on Wikisource are required to have a license template describing the work's copyright status. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:58, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

== [[Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf]] ==

Hello again. What language is this work in ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 06:37, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

:This is a work in Latin about the English language. There are many passages such as Psalms and Spenserian poetry in English written in a phonetic alphabet. Since the scans have two pages to a single Index page, I moved my transcription/translation work here instead: [[Index:Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur.djvu|Logonomia anglica qua gentis sermo facilius addiscitur]]. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 03:53, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Oh ! How complicated ! Thanks. Good luck. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:09, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you as well! [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 05:19, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::So should the original index be deleted ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:53, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::I think that might be the best option for now. I don't know how to deal with Index pages that show two pages of the actual work at once, but there may be a discussion about it already e.g. for manuscripts. At the very least the original file should still be kept on Commons for archival purposes. Thanks. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 14:33, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::OK - but I don't see any reason to keep that index on wikisource - I have put it for deletion here - [[Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#Index:Logonomia_Anglica,_1621.pdf]]. I agree that the scan on Commons can be left there. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:38, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1]] ==

Please note that English wikisource requires that there be a scan-backed copy in the original language before it accepts a user translation into English. [[WS:Translations#Wikisource_original_translations]] Is there one for this ?

Also, why did you use override author and not link the author ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:I'm working on a transcription of the original Spanish, I just have to fix some formatting and semantic tagging issues.
:I plan to create an author page for Gaspar de San Agustín soon, but I honestly don't know what elements it should have and what categories to place it in.
:A follow-up question: can Translation: pages have translated titles or should they have the original language title? [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 00:50, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
::Noted, thanks.
::If you click on the tool, you just need to include the name (and first two letters of the surname), a work and copyright licence. Other things can be added later.
::I don't know if there is a rule about the titles - but I think normally they are translated. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:55, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you, this is really helpful. [[User:ColossalMemer|ColossalMemer]] ([[User talk:ColossalMemer#top|talk]]) 02:08, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Xaxafrad</username>
        <id>9974</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>this is no longer used in this index (at this time)</comment>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pioneersorsource02cooprich.djvu/70</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4434605</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133671</id>
      <parentid>13927518</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:23:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
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      <text bytes="1534" sha1="q90ti08o7o9emdumvnjuh88nsw5q4wk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;R. J. Mathar&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{larger|CHAPTER V.}}}}
{{dhr}}
{{fine block|{{ppoem|&quot;{{tooltip|While from its margin, terrible to tell!|This epigraph is from a 1796 edition of 'The Shipwreck' by William Falconer. These words do not appear in the first edition (1762), of which there is a transcription on Wikisource. Falconer revised his poem several times between 1762 and 1769.}} 
Three sailors with their gallant boatswain fell.&quot;
&gt;&gt;''[[author:William Falconer (1732-1769)|Falconer]].''}}}}
{{dhr}}
{{sc|While}} the fishermen were employed in making the preparations for an equitable division of their spoils, Elizabeth and her friend strolled to a short distance from the group, along the shores of the lake. The shades of evening had been gradually gathering around the scene, during the draught of the net, and, while the objects in the vicinity of the fire were still distinct, and even vivid, the surrounding darkness became deeper, both by the contrast, and the advancing dominion of the night.  After reaching a point, to which even the brightest of the occasional gleams of light from the fire did not extend, the ladies turned, and paused a moment, in contemplation of the busy and lively party they had left, and of the obscurity, which, like the gloom of oblivion, seemed to envelope the rest of the creation.

&quot;This is indeed a subject for the pencil!&quot; exclaimed Elizabeth. &quot;Observe the countenance of that wood chopper, while he exults in presenting a larger fish than common to my cousin Sheriff; and see, Louisa, how handsome and considerate my&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:55:19Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
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Random poem: [[{{trim|{{{1}}}}}]]

{{purge|(another poem)}}&lt;/div&gt;

{{:{{{1}}}}}

{{smaller block|&lt;references/&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Index:The Newcastle Associators; or, The Trimmers Loyalty.jpg</title>
    <ns>106</ns>
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      <id>15132444</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:50:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
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      <comment>Done</comment>
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|Language=en
|Volume=
|Author=
|Translator=
|Editor=
|Illustrator=
|School=
|Publisher=Nathaniel Thompson
|Address=London
|Year=c. 1684–1688
|Key=Newcastle Associators, The; or, The Trimmers Loyalty
|ISBN=
|OCLC=
|LCCN=
|BNF_ARK=
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|Source=jpg
|Image=[[File:The Newcastle Associators; or, The Trimmers Loyalty.jpg|thumb]]
|Progress=T
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Newcastle Associators; or, The Trimmers Loyalty.jpg</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4493218</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132442</id>
      <parentid>14173856</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:50:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132442</origin>
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      <text bytes="4723" sha1="qsomqyeez479mxrfwidkdql9c2tm5wh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|
{{larger|{{uc|{{sp|The}}}}}}&lt;br/&gt;
{{xxxx-larger|Newca{{ls}}tle A{{ls}}{{ls}}ociators;}}&lt;br/&gt;
{{uc|{{sp|o|r,}}{{sp|&amp;#32;the}}}}&lt;br/&gt;
{{xxx-larger|{{uc|Trimmers Loyalty.}}}}

{{larger|Being a true Relation how {{ls}}everal ''Sanctified Brethren'' were Apprehended, and found Signing the ''A{{ls}}{{ls}}ociation'', ({{ls}}everal others having made their E{{ls}}capes) at the A{{ls}}{{ls}}izes at ''Newca{{ls}}tle'', ''August'' 2. 1684.}}

{{rule}}

To the Tune of ''Ignoramus''; or, ''Lay by your Pleading''.

{{rule}}
}}

{{ppoem|
&lt;&gt; I.
::{{li|L}}{{uc|a}}y by your ''Rea{{ls}}on'',
::''Truth''’s out of ''Sea{{ls}}on'';
Since ''Trea{{ls}}on''’s ''Loyalty'', and ''Loyalty'' is ''Trea{{ls}}on''.
::''Toney'' the Jealous,
::''Sidney'' the Zealous,
Contriv’d the ''Nation''’s fall, yet both were ''Loyal'' Fellows;
::With ''Patience'', Narrations,
::And {{uc|Associations}}.
Lord what ado there was for ''Teckley''’s Reformations?
They ''Plotted'', and ''Lotted'', and ''Sotted'', and ''Voted'';
And never will have done, ’till their ''Heads'' are all ''Promoted''.

&lt;&gt; II.
::With ''In{{ls}}urrections'',
::Lawle{{ls}}s Objections,
They {{ls}}tudy’d to promote the ''Commonwealth'' Projections.
::''Monarchy'' Haters,
::{{uc|Associators}},
Did Swear into a League with ''Ra{{ls}}cals'', ''Whigs'' &amp; ''Traytors'';
::Then Venture, Indenture,
::In Bonds they do Enter:
Whil{{ls}}t at the ''Royal Pair'' their Malice {{ls}}till did center:
They ''Plotted'', and ''Lotted'', and ''Sotted'', and ''Voted'',
And never will have done till all the Tribe’s promoted.

&lt;&gt; III.
::But the Brave ''Chief Ju{{ls}}tice'',
::In whom our Tru{{ls}}t is,
Will do the ''Rebels'' Right, who in Law the fir{{ls}}t is.
::In this High Station,
::Purging the Nation
Of all that did promote this damn’d ''A{{ls}}{{ls}}ociation''.
::''Bakers'' and ''Quakers'',
::And ''Monarchy-haters'',
And all that joyn in League with ''A{{ls}}{{ls}}ociators'',
They ''Plotted'', and ''Lotted'', and ''Sotted'', and ''Voted'',
And never will have done till all the Train’s Promoted.

&lt;&gt; IV.
::He late {{ls}}urprizes,
::In quaint Di{{ls}}gui{{ls}}es,
No le{{ls}}s then {{ls}}eventeen at ''Newca{{ls}}tle'' Sizes:
::Villains he {{ls}}cented,
::That had Indented,
And with the ''Cooper'' had a new Tap invented
::''Jack Shallow'', ''Sim. Swallow'',
::''Will. Weeks'', and ''Tom. Tallow'',
Nine were for ''Traytors'' found, the next in cour{{ls}}e will follow
''They Plotted, and Lotted, and Sotted, and Voted,''
''And never will have done till all their Tribe’s Promoted.''

&lt;&gt; V.
::The{{ls}}e on their ''Tryal''
::Wou’d all be ''Loyal'',
Altho’ the Royal Race they {{ls}}tudy'd to De{{ls}}troy all.
::Their Fal{{ls}}e ''hearts'' {{ls}}ounded,
::The re{{ls}}t Confounded;
''Guilt'' flying in their Face, for the ''Fact'' ab{{ls}}conded.
::Both ''Richard'' the ''Bitcher'',
::And ''Williams'' the ''Letcher'',
Whil{{ls}}t ''Thumb'', and ''Dick'', and ''Tom'' are left behind to {{ls}}tretch for’t.
''They Plotted, and Lotted, and Sotted, and Voted,''
''And in good time we hope will likewi{{ls}}e be Promoted.''

&lt;&gt; VI.
::''Toney'' that Scented,
::And fir{{ls}}t Invented
This ''Holy Covenant'', was the fir{{ls}}t Ab{{ls}}ented.
::Of all for{{ls}}aken,
::To {{ls}}ave his Bacon,
He into ''Whigland'' crawls, but was overtaken.
::The Starter’s a Martyr,
::Death gives no Quarter,
Whil{{ls}}t ''Walcot'' and the re{{ls}}t were by the Head cut {{ls}}horter.
''They Plotted, and Lotted, and Sotted, and Voted,''
''And never will have done till their Heads are all Promoted.''

&lt;&gt; VII.
::''Ru{{ls}}{{ls}}el'' did Try for’t,
::''Sidney'' did Die for’t,
While ''Rumbold'', ''Gray'' and ''Tom'', with the re{{ls}}t did flie for’t:
::For all their Teaching,
::''Fergu{{ls}}on''’s Preaching,
His ''Head''’s upon a Pole, and his ''Quarters'' Bleaching:
::The Starter’s a Martyr,
::The Squire gives no Quarter,
For now the ''Bully Knight'' is by the Head cut Shorter.
''They Plotted, and Lotted, and Sotted, and Voted,''
''And never will have done till their Quarters are Promoted.''

&lt;&gt; VIII.
::Now be Confounded
::''Whig'', ''Trimmer'', ''Roundhead'',
And all the Factious Lump of Trea{{ls}}on {{Ls}}o Compounded.
::By every Action,
::We {{ls}}ee your Faction
Tends only to Involve the ''Nation'' in Di{{ls}}traction.
::Your ''Lopping'', and ''Fopping'',
::And ''Blunderbu{{ls}}s'' Popping,
And all your flying for’t won’t {{ls}}ave your ''Necks'' from ''Chopping''.
''You Plotted, and Lotted, and Sotted, and Voted,''
''And in good time we hope you all {{ls}}hall be Promoted.''
}}

{{rule}}

{{c|{{m-larger|Printed and Sold by ''Nath. Thomp{{ls}}on'' at the Entrance into the ''Old-Spring-Garden'' near ''Charing-Cro{{ls}}s''.}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Index:The Cabin at the Trail's End.djvu</title>
    <ns>106</ns>
    <id>4500694</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132344</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:53:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>OCR realigned, good to go</comment>
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|Author=[[Author:Sheba Hargreaves|Sheba Hargreaves]]
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|Illustrator=
|School=
|Publisher=Harper &amp; brothers
|Address=
|Year=1928
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&lt;pagelist
1to7=&quot;–&quot;
8=&quot;Title&quot;
9to13=roman
9=2
12=Half
13=&quot;–&quot;
14=1
355=&quot;–&quot;
356to359=&quot;Adv&quot;
360to366=&quot;–&quot;
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      <id>15132345</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:54:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>while we're at it, &quot;not transcluded&quot;</comment>
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|Editor=
|Illustrator=
|School=
|Publisher=Harper &amp; brothers
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|Pages=OCR'd text is offset by one page; {{ssl|Cabin at the Trail's End (IA cabinattrailsend0000sheb).pdf|name1=PDF transcription project without OCR issues}}
&lt;pagelist
1to7=&quot;–&quot;
8=&quot;Title&quot;
9to13=roman
9=2
12=Half
13=&quot;–&quot;
14=1
355=&quot;–&quot;
356to359=&quot;Adv&quot;
360to366=&quot;–&quot;
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|Volumes=
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    <revision>
      <id>15133431</id>
      <parentid>15132345</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T05:04:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>correct publisher; cover; OCR problem fixed</comment>
      <origin>15133431</origin>
      <model>proofread-index</model>
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|Language=en
|Volume=
|Author=[[Author:Sheba Hargreaves|Sheba Hargreaves]]
|Translator=
|Editor=
|Illustrator=
|School=
|Publisher=A. L. Burt Company
|Address=
|Year=1928
|Key=
|ISBN=
|OCLC=
|LCCN=
|BNF_ARK=
|ARC=
|DOI=
|Source=djvu
|Image=8
|Progress=C
|Transclusion=no
|Validation_date=
|Pages=&lt;pagelist
1to7=&quot;–&quot;
8=&quot;Title&quot;
9to13=roman
9=2
12=Half
13=&quot;–&quot;
14=1
355=&quot;–&quot;
356to359=&quot;Adv&quot;
360to366=&quot;–&quot;
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|Volumes=
|Remarks=
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|Footer=
|tmplver=
}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Index:The Whiggish Poet's Recantation.jpg</title>
    <ns>106</ns>
    <id>4504070</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132402</id>
      <parentid>14186250</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:29:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Done</comment>
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|Language=en
|Volume=
|Author=
|Translator=
|Editor=
|Illustrator=
|School=
|Publisher=M. Smelt
|Address=London
|Year=1684
|Key=Whiggish Poet's Recantation, The
|ISBN=
|OCLC=
|LCCN=
|BNF_ARK=
|ARC=
|DOI=
|Source=jpg
|Image=[[File:The Whiggish Poet's Recantation.jpg|thumb]]
|Progress=T
|Transclusion=yes
|Validation_date=June 2025
|Pages=[[Page:The Whiggish Poet's Recantation.jpg|1]]
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  <page>
    <title>Index:Logonomia Anglica, 1621.pdf</title>
    <ns>106</ns>
    <id>4512031</id>
    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:34:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>delete</comment>
      <origin>15132316</origin>
      <model>proofread-index</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
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|Type=book
|Title=''Logonomia Anglica''
|Language=en, la
|Volume=
|Author=Alexander Gill the Elder
|Translator=
|Editor=
|Illustrator=
|School=
|Publisher=John Beale
|Address=London
|Year=1621
|Key=
|ISBN=
|OCLC=
|LCCN=
|BNF_ARK=
|ARC=
|DOI=
|Source=pdf
|Image=4
|Progress=C
|Transclusion=no
|Validation_date=
|Pages={{split pages}}
&lt;pagelist 
1=Cover
2to3=—
4=Title
5to6=Epistola
7to11=Præfatio
12=1
13=2-3 14=4-5 15=6-7 16=8-9 17=10-11 18=12-13 19=14-15 20=16-17 21=18-19 22=20-21 23=22-23 24=24-25 25=26-27 26=28-29 27=30-31 28=32-33 29=34-35 30=36-37 31=38-39 32=40-41 33=42-43 34=44-45 35=46-47 36=48-49 37=50-51 38=52-53 39=54-55 40=56-57 41=58-59 42=60-61 43=62-63 44=64-65 45=66-67 46=68-69 47=70-71 48=72-73 49=74-75 50=76-77 51=78-79 52=80-81 53=82-83 54=84-85 55=86-87 56=88-89 57=90-91 58=92-93 59=94-95 60=96-97 61=98-99 62=100-101 63=102-103 64=104-105 65=106-107 66=108-109 67=110-111 68=112-113 69=114-115 70=116-117 71=118-119 72=120-121 73=122-123 74=124-125 75=126-127 76=128-129 77=130-131 78=132-133 79=134-135 80=136-137 81=138-139 82=140-141 83=142-143 84=144-145 85=146-147 86=148-149 87=150-151 88=152
89to90=—
91to92=Cover
/&gt;
|Volumes=
|Remarks={{delete}}
|Width=
|Header={{rh|{{{pagenum}}}|Chap. |{{{pagenum}}}}}
|Footer={{rh|||}}
|tmplver=
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    <title>Author:Lucy Allen Paton</title>
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 | description  = {{sc|Ph.D}}. Medievalist and biographer
}}

==Works==
* ''[[Elizabeth Cary Agassiz: A Biography]]'' (1919)
* ''[[Studies in the fairy mythology of Arthurian romance]]'' (1903)
* ''[[The personal character of Dante as revealed in his writings]]'' (1892)
* ''[[Histories of the kings of Britain]]'' (1928)

As editor
* ''[[Arthurian chronicles]]'' (1921)

As contributor 
*''[[Roman de Brut]]'', by [[Author:Wace|Wace]], translated by [[Author:Eugene Mason|Eugene Mason]] (1892)


{{PD-US|1951}}
{{authority control}}

[[Category:Biographers]]
[[Category:Medievalists as authors]]
[[Category:United States authors]]</text>
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 | section    = The Image of the Earthy
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      <text bytes="3503" sha1="gyr8ujhif170na88bgi5g0x52ecpup8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Dick Bos&quot; /&gt;{{RH|52|MEMOIRS OF TRAVEL}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;which surpasses that of any other uncivilised people with whom I have ever come in contact. The Lepcha language is perhaps richer than any other in names for plants, birds, animals and insects, as the people seem to have a special talent for collecting plants and natural history specimens generally, which has been developed by long practice.

Colonel [[:w:en:George Byers Mainwaring|Mainwaring]], a retired officer of the Bengal Army, who had lived at Darjeeling for many years, had studied their language, and had compiled a dictionary, very carefully and neatly written out in manuscript. He told me that there were approximately as many words in it as in Liddell and Scott's Greek Lexicon, and that there were few birds, beasts or insects too minute to be without a name in the Lepcha language. These primitive people have been gradually displaced from their homes by the great number of Nepalese, who have been attracted by the employment on tea plantations and public works, and who have settled in great numbers on the rich land in British Sikkim and Bhutan. These people, being much bolder, more energetic and industrious than the Lepchas, seem likely to overrun the lower hills of the Eastern Himalayas, where they are constantly extending eastward, even as far as Assam.

As I found the climate of Darjeeling too damp and foggy at this season to be suitable for my work, I accepted an invitation to stay at a tea plantation called Ging, 2,000 feet lower down on the road to the Rangit, which was managed by Mr. A. Macdonald for an English company. Finding this much pleasanter, I arranged to live with him until the weather made my expedition into the interior possible. At this plantation we lived in a good bungalow with plenty of room, and I had the advantage of being able to dry all my bird skins, insects and plants in the tea factory, where charcoal fires are constantly kept up to dry the tea. This tea industry, which had been started a few years previously, had then begun to recover from the very severe depression which was due to the extravagant and ill-managed operations of the companies who commenced it. Some of the gardens opened up at first were at too high an elevation, or on land so steep that the terraces were continually washed down by the rains. Many of them had been planted originally with China tea, which, though more delicate in flavour, could not compete in yield or in price with the stronger and more astringent tea made in Assam from the indigenous plant, which was now replacing the China variety everywhere in the district. But though a great deal of money had been lost from mismanagement at a time when almost any European was thought capable of looking after a tea plantation, yet wherever the land and situation were good, the management efficient, and the capital adequate, tea was paying very well indeed, and I have never made a better investment than in a plantation which, at Macdonald's suggestion, we took up a year later.

The planters and civilians were all very hospitable, and though some of the civilians hardly seemed to recognise that the whole wealth of the Darjeeling district was due to the capital and enterprise of the planters, I made several friends among both sets, all of whom, I fear, have passed away. I also visited and spent a few days at the Government cinchona plantation at Mongpo, which was then under the temporary superintendence of Mr. C.B. Clarke, one of the most remarkable men in his way&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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[[File:The Orange Fairy Book - Page 309.png|center|300px|THE MINK IS VERY RUDE TO THE GRANDMOTHER WOLF]]

‘I have a favour to ask of you, friend mouse,’ said he, ‘and if you will grant it I will carry you on my back every night for a week to the patch of maize right up the hill.’

‘The favour is ''mine'',’ answered the mouse. ‘Tell me what it is that I can have the honour of doing for you.’
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      <text bytes="3263" sha1="hm0e2evmwvb4vfov8hvh9i24mv5jdsx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Dick Bos&quot; /&gt;{{RH|| TOUR IN INDIA, 1870: MADRAS, DARJEELING AND SIKKIM|51}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;We found tracks of another that day, and I shot a wild pig through the head, as it rushed past. The elephant nearly ran away, having, like many elephants, a horror of wild pigs, though he was perfectly staunch with tigers and had not moved an inch when I had my shot the day before.

After this we rode into Jelpigori, where we found Colonel Haughton, the Commissioner, a fine old soldier who had been through the Afghan, Bhutan and Khasia campaigns, and had served in Burmah and as Governor of the Andaman Islands. He was living in a large house built entirely of timber and bamboo, and we passed a very pleasant evening with him.

The next day, Bridgeman, Grenfell and I went to a place called Domohni, and camped in a grove of mangoes and areca palms. I added a few birds to my collection every day, though it was fearfully hot, and we began to feel the effects of the climate. Next morning Barnard, having got an extension of leave, arrived, and we went on to Ramshaihat, which was said to be a very good place for rhinoceros; it was a nasty malarious-looking spot, and a large held of semi-wild buffaloes made it both noisy and odoriferous.

Next day the others went out two hours before daylight, hoping to catch the rhinoceros feeding in the open, but I did not feel fit, and Bridgeman came in very seedy with fever before noon.

Barnard wounded a rhinoceros in the hind leg, and followed it for a long way on his elephant, firing away all his cartridges without bagging the beast.

It was now over 100° in the tent, and as Bridgeman was rather bad, I sent to Jelpigori for a palki to carry him in to the doctor as soon as possible, leaving Grenfell and Barnard in camp, where they shot several rhinoceros in the next few days.

As soon as Bridgeman was well enough to move we returned to Kursiong in the hills, and stayed there and at Darjeeling until the end of May, when he was sufficiently recovered to leave for England. Grenfell also had an attack of fever, no doubt caught in the Terai, but I escaped with a comparatively mild one.

The rainy season now set in for good. For the next two months Darjeeling was almost constantly in a cloud, and the air so damp that I had the greatest difficulty in keeping the collection of bird skins, which I was rapidly accumulating, in fair condition. My bird-stuffer became ill and went back to Calcutta, but I found a Lepcha, a native of Sikkim, who was quite a good collector, and whom I taught to make up bird skins very fairly well. As a rule the morning was clear for about an hour after daylight, when a drizzle set in which gradually turned to rain, continuing all day and night and becoming sometimes very heavy. For seven weeks there was not a single day without rain, and I did not once get a real view of Kanchenjunga, the highest mountain in the world except Mt. Everest, which, like Everest, is visible from near Darjeeling when the weather is clear.

I began to make a collection of butterflies and moths, which are there in greater abundance and variety than perhaps in any other place in the world. Most of them are caught by Lepchas who reside in the warmer valleys beyond Darjeeling, and who have acquired an ability in collecting&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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The cinchona gardens were then being rapidly planted with the red barked species, ''Cinchona succirubra,'' which was found to succeed better at suitable elevations, 2,000 to 4,000 feet, than any other variety that had been tried. Though few of the trees were old enough to produce bark in quantities sufficient for any but experimental purposes, the gardens developed later into one of the most successful and profitable investments that has been made by the Indian Government.

I also made excursions to the valley of the Rangit river, and crossed the Tista by a wonderful suspension bridge nearly 100 yards long and made entirely from rattan canes and bamboo. The Tista valley was then roadless, and the district of British Bhutan on the other side, which had been recently occupied, after the Bhutan war, was nearly all forest, with a few scattered clearings. I went along the ridge as far as Dumsong, a frontier post now abandoned, but the weather at this season was too continuously wet to make collecting profitable. Except for a few barking deer, which frequented only the steepest and most rocky places, there were no terrestrial mammalia or large game in the lower and middle regions of the hills, owing perhaps to the innumerable leeches which abounded during the rainy season.

In July I heard that Mr. [[Author:William Thomas Blanford|William T. Blanford]], of the Geological Survey, was desirous of making an expedition into the interior, and as he had the same objects and taste for natural history as myself, and was an experienced traveller in India, I arranged to join forces with him and travel together. I had plenty of time to make the necessary preparations for a journey which had not been attempted since Dr. Hooker's great expedition of twenty-two years before. Though the difficulties of supply and transport were known to be considerable, I had the support and good will of Major Morton, the Deputy Commissioner of Darjeeling, and had acquired sufficient knowledge of the dialect used in the district, a mixture of Hindustani, Nepalese and Bengali. I engaged a Sirdar or headman, a Bhutia named Guruk, a capable and trustworthy man who lived at Darjeeling and knew Tibetan more or less. He had charge of a selected gang of twenty-two coolies, all Bhutias, and I had a Lepcha servant, and two collectors to assist in shooting and skinning and in drying plants. Blanford had his own Hindu chuprassi, and in addition I sent on a party of ten Nepalese, from the higher regions of Nepal, who were to make a depot of rice in the interior; and who, I hoped, would be willing to accompany us in case the Bhutias were afraid to cross the Tibetan frontier.

Each of these coolies was paid at the rate of eight annas a day, and was to provide his own food whenever it was procurable. The loads of rice and other necessaries for ourselves, which we made as few as possible, were all carefully weighed as a maund (eighty pounds) each, and packed in the long bamboo baskets which all these hillmen use, and on the top of which they put their own pots, a blanket to sleep in, and any spare clothing they may have, the whole being topped by a more or less waterproof mat of bamboo, which covers the man's load as well as his head and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{Auxiliary Table of Contents|
* [[/Preface|Preface]]
* [[/Part 1|Part I]]
* [[/Part 2|Part II]]
* [[/Part 3|Part III]]
}}

[[Category:Occult]]</text>
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 | title      = [[../]]
 | section    = Part 1
 | author     = John Dee
 | previous   = [[../Preface/]]
 | next       = [[../Part 2/]]
}}

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{{page break}}

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    <title>User talk:ShakespeareFan00</title>
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        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
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      <text bytes="63374" sha1="eutci1zabu6n9h2dzdqtkgy6k621gkb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;!--
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; width: 60%; margin: auto; padding: 1em; border: solid 2px gold; background-color: royalblue; color: white; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;letter-spacing: 14px;&quot;&gt;CONSIDERING LEAVING&lt;/span&gt;{{#if:|&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;{{{1}}}}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;
An attempt to get other contributor interested in resolving missing tages and Linter errors in Content namespace backfired. 
&lt;/div&gt;
--&gt;

{{frame|
Archives:
[[User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Sfan00 IMG]]

[[User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Archive1|I]]
[[User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Archive2|II]]
[[User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Archive3|III]]
[[User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Archive 4|IV]]
[[User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Archive 5]]
[[User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Archive6]]
[[User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Archive 7]]
[[User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Archive8]]
[[User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Archive 9]]
}}

== Font-size:smaller ==

I'm a bit wrong, but I still don't recommend it. Got to thinking after I adjusted a few that it looked like it was working the same, but never see it used, so [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jonesey95#%22Smaller%22 I asked]. Sharing as an FYI. Apologies for my error. [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 01:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== weird style problem and more ==
I came here to ask what you think is going on with this page [[Page:Arabian Nights Entertainments (1728)-Vol. 6.djvu/1]].  It has no style, yet it is rendering as if it does.  

Then I read your message to consider leaving.  To me it means &quot;they win&quot; &quot;they have everything now&quot;.  

I think that users of your software should each have their own name and not this name.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 08:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
: &lt;s&gt;I haven't edited that page seemingly. Can you explain more cleanly what's going on?&lt;/s&gt;&lt;br&gt;What is the exact error you are seeing? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== 1 Stat. R. 50 ==

[[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu/96]]

Took a stab at it and removed the problematic status. I couldn't spot what made it problematic, so would appreciate your feedback on this one. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 16:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
: I can't recall,  Maybe I marked it problematic as an incomplete format, and forget to remove the status.  Keep going.  BTW if you want to standardise the formatting and make some notes on the talk page.  This volume's formatting is a little convoluted, and probably need someone to make it consistent across all pages. &lt;br&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:56, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:: If I had to guess, I think it was probably the footnotes within the footnotes. I have been going through all the prior pages to try and get used to what's already been done and touching up/standardizing across all pages, but I think this one was the first page I recall seeing footnoted footnotes. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 13:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Another thing: I've decided to include the untranslated text of the chapters in Latin and law-French in the template pages within the frame box, but I am wrapping those untranslated portions in noinclude tags (i.e., when the template is called, those untranslated portions will not render in the calling page). This way, they are at least typed up somewhere, and it's been proofread and is easy to access until we have actual pages to where we can place them on the other language wikis. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 04:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Check the equivalent pages at French and Latin Wikipedia, as I did an initial transcription of some of that text a while back. :) , By looking at those (and use of {{tl|iwpages}} and {tl|IwPageSection}} you might save some time.  I did this one transcription already.

Another note:  In building for mainspace:  On a longer acts the intention was to try and use the actual Short Title as the Work name if defined. The convention otherwise seems to be  &lt;Subject&gt; (taken from the The Chronologicial Table of The Statutes)&gt; &lt;year&gt;. Finding official short titles can be an involved process for early Statutes though.  

Elsewhere on Wikisource/Commons , there are scans of Statutes Of The Realm, which might assist Translation efforts. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:I know enough Latin and French that I can make passable attempts at directly translating them myself, but I'm not exactly sure where the translation I would produce should go. Would it be considered original research and thus need to be independenty published? I've got a little editing experience here, but in the main I guess I'm still kind of a noob. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 10:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Wikisource supports user translations of Non English works,  but they should be clearly marked as Trabnslated by Wikisource, and seperate from other transcription efforts. As mentioned some of the Non English in Ruffhead was translated in &quot;Statutes of The Realm&quot; , but if you want to attempt your own Law translation feel free, Don't use GoogleTranslate as what it produces isn't quite the samewhen tested with a short section where Ruffhead has both the origianl and English translation. Please note that the French is Law French not Modern French. Also some translation of early statutes aren't always literal translation (as some of the parrallel printing indciates.) The reason why the Non English wasn't included here was to do with Wikisource policy at the time the work was started.
: If you want to attempt translations, feel free, but bear in mind other works  on Law might have done so already. For some items (although less likely for repealed items) a semi-official translation might be on legislation.gov.uk BTW[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
: I would suggest initially doing the translation in you Userspace, and then ask how to possibly link them on the Scriptorum:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Any inklings you can share on why the class block template isn't working on [[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 4.djvu/109|this]] and the previous few pages? [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 20:47, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
{{ping|Foofighter20x}} - The styles will need to imported from another volume and put on the relevantpage, currently VOl4 has no Indexstyles defined apparently.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:38, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

Hello. May I ask what is the benefit of edits like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:World_Fiction_1922%E2%80%931923.djvu/579&amp;curid=4560724&amp;diff=14620053&amp;oldid=14336619 this]? -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

: A long term goal to simplify the running header code used across wikisource. Currently there are around 86,000 single content running headers that are preventing the simplification. If you think alternately Rh/1 can be replaced with left/right/center appropriately, I have no objections provided that it's done consistently across a work, which is what the focus of some recent editing efforts is. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Talk page watcher, just stopping by to '''endorse''' this simplification of the running header code used across Wikisource. It is a broadly good thing to do. [[User:BD2412|&lt;span style=&quot;background:lightgreen;color:inherit;&quot;&gt;''BD2412''&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 14:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

::: Won't be following this up just yet, (but you are welcome to review Rh/1 usage) I am running a check-back on my delinting efforts outside content namespace over the last 10 years or so. If you want to review my past delints as well feel free. Currently looking at Talk namepsace. :) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

== Indexes ==

The [[Special:LintErrors/obsolete-tag|remaining pages]] of Index are free of Obsolete tags, and linthint's green when I scan these pages after publishing my edits, but I'm unable to clear Wikisource's claim of an obsolete tag remaining. I've tried purging page, hard purging, null editing, and got no change. Is it a wait it out situation, or am I overlooking something? [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 14:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Zinnober9}} Not just you, same issue. Consider raising a Phabriactor ticket as it's a headscratcher for me as well. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

== Explanation for edit? ==

Hi there! I noticed you made a [[Special:Diff/14664794|couple]] [[Special:Diff/14664802|edits]] to my userpage — however, I don't see any difference in the page before and after. Can you clarify what those are about? Thanks! [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|Waldyrious}} The edits are to do with night-mode: If you set the background color, you alos have to set the text color. If the repair worked would shouldn't see any changes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::Ah, got it! Thank you :) [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== suggestion ==

change &quot;Apologies for the intteruption, but this was showing up on a list ofLints, missing style&quot;
to
&quot;Ignore this (I'm making a minor change to fix a list of missing style problems. sorry for the interuption&quot;

It took me a while to realise that I needed to do nothing.

cheers
[[User:Victuallers|Victuallers]] ([[User talk:Victuallers|talk]]) 14:48, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

== your assistance please... ==

You [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Geo_Swan&amp;oldid=951910035&amp;diff=960976114 left a note] on my user talk page on commons, with a link [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;offset=1730225&amp;exactmatch=1&amp;tag=i&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=829%0D%0A828%0D%0A711%0D%0A710%0D%0A115%0D%0A107%0D%0A106%0D%0A105%0D%0A103%0D%0A102%0D%0A101%0D%0A100%0D%0A15%0D%0A13%0D%0A14%0D%0A12%0D%0A11%0D%0A9%0D%0A8%0D%0A10%0D%0A7%0D%0A6%0D%0A1%0D%0A2%0D%0A3] here, which, unfortunately, wasn't helpful... 

I saw it started with [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag Lint errors: Missing end tag], and I started looking through the output on those pages, until I got to a page that listed some pages in user space I worked on.  I took a look at them, trying to figure out which tags were missing, without success.  Can you help me determine this?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 13:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

: {{ping|Geo Swan}} What's missing is for the most part italic and bold, which must be paired on a single line. I.e you typed &lt;nowiki&gt;'''&lt;/nowiki&gt; or &lt;nowiki&gt;''&lt;/nowiki&gt; at the start of a line, but forget to type the equivalent at the end of the line.  I was also asking if these were drafts you'd later migrated to scan backed Pages.  

I also use a script when editing pages - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint - it provides a button in the top of pages which when expanded gives a list of unpaired tags.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

:filtering the list even more - https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;exactmatch=&amp;tag=all&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=User%3AGeo+Swan&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=2  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:* Thanks for your heads-up, and for [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User:Geo_Swan/working/Summary_of_Evidence_memos/pg256&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14675722 this] example.  
:* What is ns104?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 17:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Page: namespace . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

== span and color ==

Where is the wiki documentation is &quot;color&quot; now required to be explicitly specified in a span tag? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

: You raise a reasonable point, I'm not sure the requirement that backgroound/background-color must now be accompanied by (foreground) color is adequately documented at Wikisource. It is however documented alongside the description of the relevant Lint Error in the documentation at Meta. Migration of FONT to span may alos have simmilar issues.  If you want me to start reverting every single coonversion I can do that, but I feel strongly it would create far more noise than it solves. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In relation to 'night-mode' - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/night-mode-unaware-background-color
:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In reltaion to FONT-&gt;SPAN , https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/obsolete-tag

== Finding dumb typos ==

How do you find errors like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Nella_Larson_-_Quicksand.pdf/301&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=14690241 this] so quickly? Do you somehow subscribe to [[Special:LintErrors]]? I'd like to reduce your overhead by at least quickly cleaning up my own mistakes. Thanks. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 21:26, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Koavf}} I just monitor to the list of LintErrors on a regular basis. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:28, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

== Need help ==

Please take a look here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Talk:War_of_the_Classes#Duplication_of_chapter_heading -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 16:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
: I think it's fixed now. -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 18:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

== Old transcriptions in User Space.. ==

I apologize for my late reply to [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJan.Kamenicek&amp;diff=14674500&amp;oldid=14673810 your request] regarding some old transcriptions in user space. The reason is I have been only rarely online recently due to being very busy in my offline life. However, I am not really sure what action is requested from me. If you think they should be deleted, it would probably be best to propose their deletion via the usual process. I am afraid I cannot just speedy a page from a user's space without any serious reason. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

: The message was that I was asking if you had time to rescue any of them as potential POTM or Monthy Challanges, duplicates could be courtesy blanking, but that might be contentious, so would have to go through the normal 'Proposed Deletion' process.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 10:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::I see. Not sure if I will have time for that, but you may try to write directly to the POTM or Monthly Challenges talk pages. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

== Scribners jpegs ==

I almost undid your undo.  I need a few minutes to think about it.  You correct me too quickly, I learn by my little bits of clean up.  {{diff|14749908|text=14:50 and 14:52|olddiff=14749906}}

You gave me less than what, less than 3 minutes to figure it out?

Your edits recently have been mostly bogus (meaning I did not make that mistake) and creepy.  I am already cringing when I see you have been on my work.  

But that was a good template.  Some one has to figure out how to separate this from the google spam, I think.

ShakespeareFan00 should always be very credible with anything css.

Okay so
#More time between my edit and yours.
#Always have credible edits.
#Detach from my google spam

And a large part of my life would be better, great even.  I learned a lot from you.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

: Okay so you are concerned that putting the suggested fix back in was done to quickly?  None of my recent edits were anything other than good faith attempts to make reapirs to resolve lint concerns and related issues.   Do you have a specific list of other edits you have concerns about? If you have getting stressed from having your efforts 'reapaired' than I strongly suggest taking a few days away from contributing. Are you using AI or a a transaltion tool because your comments above sound like a generated response BTW   [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

== Ppoem native rules ==

Would you mind spelling out what spec exactly you have in mind? Two things need to be defined: input, what the user enters, and output, what it should produce. {{sm|The input format at {{tl|ppoem/testcases}} could be criticized because it looks kinda like HTML, with the angle brackets, especially when you compare comment start: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--&lt;/nowiki&gt; and that: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;-&lt;/nowiki&gt; (maybe not a real problem).}} It's mostly about the output that I don't know what to do. If we want to be semantically correct, it's a kind of &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, taking some care to arrange the stanzas around it. This would mean that it would always separate stanzas in two, which semantically may be meh. If that isn't too bad, this'd be option #1 for me. There are plenty of ways to fake horizontal lines, e.g. a span with &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot; inline&gt;height:0px;border-top:1px solid black;display:inline-block;&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;, but that is surely bad semantic-wise. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:27, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Hmm.  Do you have an alternate syntax.. ?   We need to be able to do {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem though. 

Standard wikitest would be  ----  for a rule on a single line , but that doesn't allow for the additional paramaters {{tl|rule}} did.

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;
&lt;-:x&gt; Outputs the same as {{tlx|rule|4em}} , but appropriately centered within the ppoem outer container, using an HR, which breaks stanzas if encountered. Is it possible to have a means of adding addition params stop set style? or do he have something like &lt;-:width:height:style&gt; ?  hmm...

&lt;--:x&gt;  Was intended to be a double rule (essentially a style change). with the same params.
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
Note: The rules need to collapse, I.e each {{tag|hr|s}} must be it's own line, with appropriate spacing. And obviously rules need to be outside the 'stanzas' (The implied Stanza break you were favouring. 

[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:On input syntax, maybe the same thing replacing the angle brackets by something else? IDK. I wouldn't die on that hill anyhow
:The hr's are not line content, and so would not in fact be inside any lines, it would be outside lines and stanzas.
:On default params, I think {{tl|rule}}'s way of putting full height when nothing given is better, because 4em wasn't used any more than 3em, or 6em, or 5em (and also, if it's default it's easier to find, with &lt;-:100%&gt;(the way to get it if it's not default) maybe being not intuitive, unlike the ems).
:On multiple rules, it'd maybe be better, as very often when there are multiple they are not the same size, to allow putting something like &lt;code&gt;&lt;-:8em:4px&gt;&lt;-:6em:2px&gt;&lt;/code&gt; on a single line (in the input) for these two hrs to be right after each others in the output, with nothing in between. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:45, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Oh, also, on rule inside ppoem: this would get all of rule's functionalities, and it trying to parse where the p tag will autoclose, to try and make a cleaner stanza break around it, would be an absolute nightmare. Remaking a specialized parser is a pain, and it's likely to not understand code exactly the same way mw does (I've done it once, for a simplified parser), and if we try and rely on mediawiki parsing, we'll have to match the output to the input, which is also complicated.
:There are very few of these 600 invalid uses that should've been valid. There were the {{tl|rule}} ones, and {{tl|cr}} can hopefully be made inline-block (intend to look into it sometime soon), and apart from that, I don't remember any (the rest was things like FI, nesting ppoem, cblock, &amp;c). Once this is done, there'll be no use for {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem, and normally we don't have another template to replicate. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: I'm not set on the angle brackets,  If you can find something that is wasy to parse for, feel free to use it.  I support your idea width:height btw ;).. Do we have custom rules which set a style attrib on the {{tag|hr|s}} ?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:(width:height was your idea, not mine, I just shamelessly stole it from your answer.) Custom styles is just {{tlx|1=rule|2=...|3=style=...}}, I think. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: So we  would need a way to have the style in the syntax, or better would be the classing approach already supported for lines and stanzas...  ;)
::Oh. very good idea. So &lt;-:width:height:class1 class2 class3 ...&gt;, with classes separated by spaces, adding .ws-poem-[name]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:05, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Exactly . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])
::::And output, it would be an hr, with class ws-poem-rule and user-added classes, and with style height:what the user gave or 1px if they didn't give anything, and width:what they gave or 100%. (The ws-poem-rule class would permit work-scale styling, e.g. if all rules inside ppoems are in this book 4em or 6em or whatever. Will get at work in sandbox and show you end result when I'm done. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:12, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Well, I guess this is all made moot now, apart maybe from the use it would still have of better semantics (the rules not being line content)? I'd like your opinion on that. What do you think?
::::Again, I cannot tell you how sorry I am for dragging you into that mess, essentially for nothing. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:14, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

== The Night Born ==

Thanks for your edits there. I see now how fine block is supposed to work across pages. (I wonder if it is worth mentioning that on the template page). I don't see what nopf is doing - would you be so kind as to explain ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:The {{tl|nopf}} is there to stop the last line of the page becoming it's own paragraph. (Known glitch in Proofread page/Mediawiki [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 07:54, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

== fsn and (all)smallcaps ==

Last january, {{tl|fsn}} was changed by you to normalise not only italic, as was its purpose till then, but also smallcaps. This breaks some stuff, as up to 2024 it did not remove smallcaps. Moreover, this duplicates the purpose of {{tl|fvn}}. Do you agree that normalising smallcaps should be left to that template, and removed from {{tl|fsn}}? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:32, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

: Do what you think is appropriate, but remember to check usages. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

== In re Eng. Rep. ==

Just a heads up: since I reloaded the 1 ER base file with an assembled pdf of clearer and less-distorted scans from CommonLII (which is why I stopped editing for a few days: was figuring out how to use Python to grab all those files), the default OCR that Wikimedia is using to prefill the body block when loading an uncreated page has been producing ''worse'' quality OCR prefills.

''However'', above the page display window on the right, I've found that changing to the Google OCR in the &quot;Transcribe Text&quot; dropdown and then punching that button that prior to any editing works ''miracles.'' You probably already noticed/knew this, but in case you hadn't/didn't, I'd loathe myself if I didn't save you ''lots'' of editing time by not mentioning it. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 22:35, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

: I was aware of the Google OCR, it was my standard goto.  Thanks for the new scans..  If you can assemble a PDF for the volumes we don't have that would be very useful.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::Yep, that's very much on my radar. The catch in pulling the better scans from Common LII has been that I have to combine all the files in Acrobat Pro and then go through the compiled volume page by page to eliminate all the duplicate pages (i.e., where one case ends and the next begins on the same page, that page will be in each file, hence will be present twice in the assembled Acrobat binder; there's simply no way to automate that process in AAP). On top of that, I still have to find scans of the Eng. Rep. volumes proper that have been posted online so I can also include the front and back matter, which isn't available at Common LII. Still, now that I have the Python code working the way I want it, I've got it on my short term to-do list. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:03, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Always more work to do: Have started to put together the [[The_English_Reports|front page for the set]] and for each volume. I'm also trying to include corrections and date conversions as I go along (within tooltips; see [[The_English_Reports/Volume_1|here]] as to R v. Visc. Purbeck, in re its purported year of decision). --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 21:02, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: You might need to fork the template which was designed primarly for US cases, not British ones? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Sounds like a good idea, but I'm an American, so I'm not exactly sure what all info should be mandatory/required, and what else should be includable. I could always start with what's in [https://www.legalbluebook.com/bluebook/v21/tables/t2-foreign-jurisdictions/t2-43-united-kingdom Table 2.43 of The Bluebook], but a little specialized knowledge from a Brit would be beneficial before I'm so bold to start. Also, at least as far as the Eng. Rep. editors put in references to Mews Dig., I'd think including those snippets from Mews as quasi-headnote in the case page, as I did in [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]]. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 23:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: Generally, if it isn't the original scan, adding headnotes from another source, is an 'annotation' which is generally discouraged, also the headnotes source might not be under a compatible license, unlike the text in the scans. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 00:03, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
::I guess I should clarify what I mean by &quot;adding headnotes&quot;: I'm only thinking of putting that Mews material in the notes block of the header template at the top of the transcluded presentation pages (again, see [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]] toward the top in the gray). In support of that, I'll add that I think the only parts of the Eng. Rep. that weren't published before Jan. 1, 1930 are the two index volumes; if that's the case and they are still copyrighted (which I'm not sure they ever were), they'll be out of copyright in a year... Given that all those substantive volumes are public domain, their references to Mews necessarily implies that such Mews material is also public domain. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Question: another editor has come in and removed the page numbering markers I put in the index pages for vols. 76 and 77 (i.e., where it demarks where the different volumes of the contained editions, are, such as 1 Co., 2 Co., etc.). Is my inclusion of those frowned on? Figured I should ask someone with experience before I start a potential reversion fight. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 06:38, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Shouldn't be a problem. Often the page number removal isn't intended. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:02, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

== Front matter page numbers ==

I've noticed several recent books where you've set of the from matter page numbering with errors.  You seem to be assuming the title page is '''i''', but for the books you've set up, that isn't the case.  When there is a half-title, ''that's'' usually page '''i''' (except in cases where some arbitrary earlier page is the starting point). --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:11, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: Thanks, I'll take another look. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Can you list some specific examples, as the ones I've had another look at seem to do the front matter from the Half title? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::See for example [[Index:Rainbow Valley text.djvu]], where the Half-title is the start page, and there is a leaf for the Frontispiece inserted between pages ii and iii.  Plate-beating leaves are usually inserted after the printed pages are folded.  Or see [[Index:Red Harvest.pdf]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:38, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Already corrected. and I am finding some others as I check.  Thanks for the heads up, List anymore you find below :).  
:(Aside) A lot of the Duplicate Page-ID's seems to be front matter with duplicative ID's. The intent was (with checks) to replace some of these with 'roman' numerals from the works concerned? , For image plates I was considering amending them to use  &quot;(sp&lt;djvupage&gt;)&quot; or &quot;(fp&lt;adjacent pageid&gt;)&quot; depending on the work. What are your suggestions? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::Two issues to consider: (1) Our recommendations explicitly allow for named pages when the work in question does not have a clear numbering system for pages in the front matter. (2) Changing page numbers / naming can break page links, so it shouldn't happen unless it's absolutely necessary.
::Why &quot;sp&quot;?  And where was the change to image page naming discussed? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::: sp=Scanpage. I hadn't raised the issue on Scriptorum yet, so will not be changing existing numbering (other than the Half/Title confusion you pointed out.).  Something needs to be done about the 'linter noise' though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:07, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

==Quick question==
Hey ShakespeareFan00. On [[Index:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4, STORMS.pdf]], I noticed [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:Monthly_Weather_Review,_Volume_1,_Issue_4,_STORMS.pdf&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14784703 made an edit] changing a X to a C, and as I have seen this done by several editors before, I wanted to know why? I don't even know what the C or X stands for, so hopefully you can explain them as well for a newbie. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 21:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: It means someone checked the uploaded file was complete. Carry on proofreading. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:25, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

== Orphaned categories ==

Hi, these categories that you created have no parents and so are lost in the tree. Can you please review and determine their best position?
* [[:Category:Malformed identifer for numbered div]]
* [[:Category:Parameter3(Numbered Div)]]
Thanks, [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

== Pagelists ==

Thanks for adding pagelists to some of my recently added indexes. (I am still quite new at doing these.) 

Is there an easy way to get those lists ? Or do you have to go through the scans to see what is there ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:08, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

:You have to go through the scans, but an easy and fun way of doing it is at the top right. It's the &quot;wikisource page game&quot;, and it figures it out pretty well. 
:For some reason, when I upload a new document, the scan is not properly available. It always throws an error up, at least for a few hours. Then I remember a day later and come back to it, and @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has already done it for me. [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 06:48, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
::(This &quot;Invalid interval&quot; problem can be fixed by purging the file at commons.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:00, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:FPTI|FPTI]], @[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] - thanks guys. I'll have to have a go at that some time. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:46, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] How does one purge a file at commons? I'm having the same problem with [[Index:Demonology and Devil lore volume 1, conway.djvu]]. Please don't do it for me, I want to learn how to do it so I can stop being bothersome about it. Unless it's something that only a mod or privileged editor can do? — [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:16, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::[[C:Help:Purge|Never mind. Found it.]] [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Nah, it's easy. There's a &quot;purge clock&quot; (or perhaps &quot;UTC clock&quot;, I don't remember exactly) gadget. Once you activate it, you should get a blue clock in the top left menu. Click it to purge. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Squab Culture.djvu]] ==

I note that there is also [[Index:Squab culture (IA squabculture00wood).pdf]] which someone has started work on. Do you think we want both versions ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:02, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

: Prefer Djvu, I'm assuming same exact edition? Take it to Scriptorur or WS:PD? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:53, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

==''The Flowering of Racial Spirit''==
The one on p. ix was fine; the one on p. xi caused the poem in the footnote to render without the poem block formatting. Your new change (which brings p. xi’s formatting in line with p. ix’s) fixes that problem. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:01, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Template:copyvio ==

If this template needs a {{tl:copyvio/e}} at the end, shouldn't that be mentioned on the template page ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:37, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

: It's not generally noticed.  {{tl|copyvio/e}} only exists really to shut the linter up. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 01:39, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

== Too many edit conflicts ==
Too many edit conflicts!  It is not helpful to me.  These volumes sat here for several days, that you pick ''while I am working on it'' to also work on it is disturbing and creates more work for me.  

Tell me which volume you want to work on and I will upload them for you! Thank you in advanced for your understanding of my problems with this.  Truly, ''my problem'' and probably not yours.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:34, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

: Apologies, Did not mean to edit conflict with you.  You did it a much better proofread on the ToC concerned than I ever could. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:27, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Hanging indent]] ==

Could you explain what issues you were seeing with line breaks, and maybe add some cases to [[Template:Hanging indent/testcases]]? It's very inconvenient that {{tl|hanging indent}} doesn't respect standard wikimarkup paragraph breaks, so I'd like to get this sorted out. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 23:32, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

:Part of the issue is the templated DIV in a list which ends up producing:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext&gt;
*&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;
* ...

or 

:&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Mediawiki then wraps or list breaks..  In the latter case the indentation should be migrated to use the proper marginating templates. 

I'm not sure how to fix the underlying issue in the back-end. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

I appreciate you trying to solve these, but this particular template might need a complete rethink, unless someones prepared to hold the developers to actually implementing a solution to the wrapping problem.  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thank you for fixing anchors and format problems in texts processed by me! To be honest, anchor errors could be hard to find, so I'd like to ask how did you spot out them?[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] ([[User talk:廣九直通車|talk]]) 04:18, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:Sharp eyesight, common sense, and &quot;Duplicate ID&quot; lint reporting. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:59, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

== Getting started ==

Hi there! I just got started here on WikiSource, and I created [[Index:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf]] for a place-names book I often reference in my research. I noticed your name in the recent changes list, and you seem to know your way around here, so I just wanted to reach out to make sure this actually is within the scope of WikiSource like I think it is. I was also wondering if I maybe should have changed the title of the document on the Commons first, as I don't see many other index pages titled like the one I just made. Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 17:55, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: Looks okay from a technical perspective.  You have checked it's out of copyright? (Canada is 50 pma) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:04, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's a good question, navigating copyright has been a little confusing for me. This book was published in 1922, but I can't find any available information about when the author died. I guess this would mean copyright is uncertain, and therefore it can't be included? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:09, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:: Well IA seemed to think this was Okay, so you might need to dig a little deeper. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:17, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:::I wasn't the one who originally uploaded the commons file just for clarity, I figured because it was on there it was okay. But now that I got to looking, the copyright justification on IA is ''&quot;Evidence reported by Internet Archive biblio tool for item placenamesofprov00browrich on March 12, 2008: no visible notice of copyright; stated date is 1922.&quot;'' but Thomas. J Brown published ''The commercial printing industry : a leader in New Jersey's changing economy'' in 1984, so that means it's not out of copyright and shouldn't be on here or the Commons, is that right? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:21, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: I did some searchign and found - https://archives.novascotia.ca/vital-statistics/death/?ID=209042 from 1926 which seems to match with details in the work.  The 1984 entry is a potentially a different person. Someone publhsing in 1922 would have to be around 80 in 1984 (not impossible but highly unlikely, given the different location). I say it's okay until we get other infromation. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:30, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::Wow, I guess you're a lot better at Google-Fu than I am. I appreciate you going out of your way to find that. In that case, I guess I'm good to keep going. Thanks a lot. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:36, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

If you're [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index%3ADark_Hester.djvu&amp;diff=14917389&amp;oldid=14917096 using rh/1 with a class], then why wasn't the &quot;sp&quot; formatting placed in the style sheet as well? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:01, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

: If you know the CSS to do it, I'll clean up the existing contributions  I made :) &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=css inline-yes&gt;letter-spacing: &lt;value&gt;?&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:06, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::Use letter-spacing:0.15em; for the same as {{tl|sp}}; you can always examine the code used in the template. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:39, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

== USStatChapHead ==

When chapnum is 1 the template displays {{sc|Chapter I.}} instead of {{sc|Chap. I.}}. Could you add a way to disable that for instances in which we would legitimately need it to say {{sc|Chap. I.}}. See [[Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 6.djvu/283]] for example [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 14:25, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: {{ping|ToxicPea}} attempted to implement {{parameter|noexpand}}  yes {{parameter|noexpand{{=}}yes}} to get the desired behaviour. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:41, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia ==

Thank you very much for all your support over the course of my transcribing of this book. I'm just finishing up extracting the images now before I get started on going through and verifying everything and correcting the last of the errors. One thing I couldn't figure out exactly is what I'm supposed to do with the front cover page. Should I extract the cover image and just use plain text for the title, or do you even need to transcribe the front cover? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 14:26, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: Extract. I think this is too complex to transcribe directly.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you, I think I figured it out.
::Sorry to bother you again so soon, but I've just encountered another issue [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|here]]. I had it in my head that the main point of adding all those anchor links was to allow for wikilinking between the pages in cases like this, but it seems to force an underscore in there. Is there another way to go about this? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 16:33, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::(Sorry for the intrusion) That was related to the way [[Module:Anchor]] implemented {{tl|anchor link}}. The real anchors (which are HTML ids) cannot include spaces, and so the spaces are always replaced by underscores. For the display of the link template, though, it makes more sense to replace the underscores by spaces, so I made it do that. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:45, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks a lot! I had a feeling there might be a solution like that. Much appreciated. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:49, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The color printer (1892).djvu/review]] ==

Is this page required ? (I have no idea what it is doing - it shows as orphaned.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:27, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
: It was a shorthand I was using during the transcrpiton.  Are you trying to clear unused pages, if so I suggest leaving userspace alone. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:29, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::Yes - but this isn't in userspace - in is in indexspace ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:46, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::: Unused shortcut, If orpahaned no need to keep it. as this was presumably subst.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:47, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

== Help in including special latin characters==
I have found some characters such as letters &quot;a&quot; and &quot;o&quot; with double dots below them together with tones above the letters as seen on [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Dictionary_of_the_Foochow_Dialect.pdf/31 this page]. I tried to find them from Latin extended word lists from the edit box and also Google search but can't find any of them. Apparently, [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]] is able to do that on this page [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:DFD_index&amp;action=history DFD Index] with the letter &quot;u&quot; but he is inactive for more than one year. Your help is very much appreciated, thank you. [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 04:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:I'm not sure how Inductiveload found them either.  Have you checked a Unicode charecter search ? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:42, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]], apparently the words can be entered by using a special software. I found[https://cdo.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B9%AB%E5%8A%A9:Ci%C5%8Fng-i%C3%B4ng_t%C4%95%CC%A4k this page] on Foochow Wikipedia in the section  &quot;平話字的輸入法&quot;. Will need some time to figure it out.[[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 11:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Normally your OS lets you enter characters by unicode codepoints. For example if you want ̤̆a, you can enter U+306, then U+324, then &quot;a&quot;. (codepoints of diacritical marks are listed at [[w:Combining Diacritical Marks]]). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], got it, thanks! [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 02:03, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

== Anchor links ==

Hello again - I'm back to finish validating the place-names book now, and there's another issue with the anchor links - If you go to an [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|an individual page]], the anchor links work just fine, but they don't work on the [[Place-Names of the Province of Nova Scotia/A|transclusion]]. I can see what's going on but I'm not sure if it can even be fixed. Am I missing something, or is this just a limitation of the module? Thanks! [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:05, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

: Not sure, ask at Scriptorum/Help [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 11:06, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks, I hadn't found that yet. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
==[[Page:The Zoologist, 4th series, vol 1 (1897).djvu/522]]==
I don’t know how to check for lint errors, so I’m not sure what the technical issue with this page is. I would assume it is owing to the tables at the top of the page, and not the few templates at the bottom. I would go about this by creating in-table template instances, which I can do at some later point if you would like. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:45, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

This was fixed in the CSS, but having two different table formats isn't good practice. The Lint eventually proved to be unrelated to the rendering! (also fixed.). Interesting alternate way to do leaders though, although I would suggest classing the table?  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:33, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
*I hadn’t actually looked at it—it looks like the tables use dotted lines to represent the dots (as opposed to ''dtpl''’s weird single-line wrapped-in table nonsense). I would switch everything to templates, but that’s just because I use templates more than tables for this purpose. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:21, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

==Page counter==
Sorry I think I've seen you put pagelists on my indexes a few times, I try to do it but keep hitting the same problem; I click to use the &quot;Page Counter Game&quot; or whatever it's called, it shows me an image I hit -, -, -, cover, -, -, title, then as soon as we're at Page 1-10 I hit &gt; to skip ahead, but then when I hit &quot;img&quot; at pg32 or whatever...it says that it's the next consecutive page number after title...what am I doing wrong here? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 13:19, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

'&lt;' ' &gt; '  Only changes the image you see.  It doesn't set the number up or advance the page that is being set.   BTW Consider slowing down a little.  There's a general consensus about not just saving recovered OCR into the Page namespace:  I appreciate you are marking as Not-Proofread, but some processing before saving is greatly appreicated by other contributors. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:57, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

::I ''think'' I typically am making improvements to the OCRed text even if only half the page, in part I can't keep track of all the templates you guys are using and such so I've started inserting the {{c and {{smallcaps and {{blackletter for example whenever needed - but I can't remember the method of some of the other stuff and I can't remember where I've seen you use it in the past. Is there some other way to make a pagelist other than manually loading 300 PAGE: files to view whether or not there's an image? I feel like there ''should'' be a way to just view a thumbnail gallery showing ~100 images at a time zoomed way out? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 17:25, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: There isn't that feature that I know of yet. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:29, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Orlando Furioso ==

I am consistently using the same syntax in the Notes as in the main body.  I am deliberately not using {{tl|ppoem}} in this eight-volume set, because it can't handle the long multi-page poetry.  I am formatting the Notes using the same syntax as elsewhere instead of mixing multiple methods. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:46, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: Ah okay, please revert. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:05, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Catchwords on Ruffhead's Statutes at Large ==

I've been marking up the catch words at the bottom of the page as:

{ {right|the} }

because that is what I saw on the finished pages for Ruffhead vol. 9.

I've just seen you've marked a page up with

{ {continues|the} }

Which way is standard? Is there a set of guidelines for Ruffhead anywhere?
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 18:46, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: There are  not guidelines as such. Feel free to write them.   I use continues if it's a continued paragraph. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:52, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::Just found that the discussion page has guidelines:
::[[Index talk:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu]]
::I'll add somethign to that. But should there be a dedicated page to agreed guidelines, and not just comments in a discussion?
::Thanks for yoru reply &amp; help. [[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:08, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Statutory Instruments ==

Do you know of a full list of all the Statutory Instruments? I've just had a colleague ask about an SI rescinded before the annual volume was published, as wasn't included in it. Nor is it listed in the [[Table_of_Government_Orders]] I linked to on IA.
	
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:05, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: I don't sorry.  Other than the compliled lists in the published volumes, the only defintive source I know of for temporary or local ones is legislation.gov.uk.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])

:the IA copy is 'limited preview' and the license is not OGL as this volume pre-dates it.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:39, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Last page ==

Could you please validate [[Page:Astrology (1904).pdf/351]] real quick? Thank you. ^^ [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 21:59, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

== Clearing duplicate IDs ==

Your changes are, in some cases, swapping one set of identical labeling for a different set of identical labeling, in other places, generating nonsense, and in some cases generating information that is flat out incorrect. I think it would be better to work with the community to come up with a better solution before proceeding with more changes.

This is a problem we may ''have'' to live with, because there are some volumes that have repeated page numbers. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:51, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

: As you objected, I'm reverting the attempted fixes. It is now on YOU to find a solution that actually solves the issue of course. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:01, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== Author:Zona Gale ==

Something has gone wrong with {{tl|IA}} causing problems that can be seen at [[Author:Zona Gale]].  So far, I have not been able to identify the specific cause.  &quot;Makeid&quot; was my best guess after checking several things, but a revert and purges have not solved the issue.  Can you spot what is causing the trouble? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:Nvm.  It was your edit to {{tl|IAl}}.  Problem fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:27, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:I'm going to review other edits I made around the same time.. Something HAS broken. Thank you.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:28, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Changing anchors ==

Is there a problem with [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Mrs_Beeton%27s_Book_of_Household_Management.djvu/1253&amp;curid=1988030&amp;diff=15019951&amp;oldid=7479246 this anchor]?  What is the problem?

And are you checking for (and changing) any and all pages that have this anchor as a target?  If not, then you are breaking anchors. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:20, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

: Definitely, It's part of the checks. And here in your linked example it's that I omitted to add the r in the inital transclude. I will however check for broken links on pages updated recently. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Treatise of the Covenant of Grace ==

Thanks for edits while I reminded myself about &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{nop}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; and inserted it at certain points where I had failed to do so earlier in the book.  However I create the individual pages in a text editor based on the EEBO-TCP text (checked with them for permission as far as I recall, or they told me I didn't need it - one or other; in any case it's not a direct copy but saves a lot of work).  In this particular page there will be complications of Greek text in the margin and perhaps identifying where it comes from.  As it's now late here in the UK I'm going to abandon ship for tonight, maybe come back in a few days time, health permitting.  I'm getting towards the end of the original text.  Let's hope I can get to the intended purpose, which is to create,  separately, a modern spelling (otherwise unaltered) edition, which may eventually get printed in book form as the original (composed of scanned and tidied images) has been since 2006.  Wikisource insists that the original one (that I've nearly finished) is done before the respelled one, which is regarded as annotated if I remember aright.[[User:PeterR2|PeterR2]] ([[User talk:PeterR2|talk]]) 23:53, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

== Confusing edit ==

Re: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:White_House_for_Sale_-_How_Princes,_Prime_Ministers,_and_Premiers_Paid_Off_President_Trump_-_Report.pdf/15&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=15055765 this], it seems like you added some CSS possibly for dark mode compatibility. I added the &quot;&lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt;&quot; background for this reason, but maybe I'm missing something. Can you elaborate on why you added this and what I'm maybe overlooking? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:16, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

: When you add a background:, you have to add color: as well.  Hence I used a codex token to provide the appropriate color. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:19, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::But &lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt; {{em text|is}} a color. How did you choose the colors you added? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:56, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I used what I felt was appropriate, and which was dark mode compatible. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:58, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/12]] ==

Thanks for adding the missing c/e tag - though shouldn't it be in the body not in the footer ? As the contents list ends there. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:31, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

== Correction of missing italic closures ==

Hi, I clearly have a blindspot in terms of closing italics, in those cases where it doesn't impact visually (e.g. at the end of lines). Could you point me at whatever tool it is you use to locate them? I chanced upon a reference to the following:{{pbr}}mw.loader.load( &quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint/r.js&amp;action=raw&amp;maxage=86400&amp;ctype=text/javascript&quot; );{{pbr}}which I hoped would do the job, but it doesn't seem to (it only seems to work on transclusions, and primarily objects to duplicate page ID's). Thanks, [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 17:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>eutci1zabu6n9h2dzdqtkgy6k621gkb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131912</id>
      <parentid>15131901</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:05:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Correction of missing italic closures */ reply.</comment>
      <origin>15131912</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="63954" sha1="kwe0pte64josrikd1gt8sat5d87ydos" xml:space="preserve">&lt;!--
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; width: 60%; margin: auto; padding: 1em; border: solid 2px gold; background-color: royalblue; color: white; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;letter-spacing: 14px;&quot;&gt;CONSIDERING LEAVING&lt;/span&gt;{{#if:|&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;{{{1}}}}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;
An attempt to get other contributor interested in resolving missing tages and Linter errors in Content namespace backfired. 
&lt;/div&gt;
--&gt;

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== Font-size:smaller ==

I'm a bit wrong, but I still don't recommend it. Got to thinking after I adjusted a few that it looked like it was working the same, but never see it used, so [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jonesey95#%22Smaller%22 I asked]. Sharing as an FYI. Apologies for my error. [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 01:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== weird style problem and more ==
I came here to ask what you think is going on with this page [[Page:Arabian Nights Entertainments (1728)-Vol. 6.djvu/1]].  It has no style, yet it is rendering as if it does.  

Then I read your message to consider leaving.  To me it means &quot;they win&quot; &quot;they have everything now&quot;.  

I think that users of your software should each have their own name and not this name.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 08:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
: &lt;s&gt;I haven't edited that page seemingly. Can you explain more cleanly what's going on?&lt;/s&gt;&lt;br&gt;What is the exact error you are seeing? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== 1 Stat. R. 50 ==

[[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu/96]]

Took a stab at it and removed the problematic status. I couldn't spot what made it problematic, so would appreciate your feedback on this one. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 16:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
: I can't recall,  Maybe I marked it problematic as an incomplete format, and forget to remove the status.  Keep going.  BTW if you want to standardise the formatting and make some notes on the talk page.  This volume's formatting is a little convoluted, and probably need someone to make it consistent across all pages. &lt;br&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:56, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:: If I had to guess, I think it was probably the footnotes within the footnotes. I have been going through all the prior pages to try and get used to what's already been done and touching up/standardizing across all pages, but I think this one was the first page I recall seeing footnoted footnotes. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 13:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Another thing: I've decided to include the untranslated text of the chapters in Latin and law-French in the template pages within the frame box, but I am wrapping those untranslated portions in noinclude tags (i.e., when the template is called, those untranslated portions will not render in the calling page). This way, they are at least typed up somewhere, and it's been proofread and is easy to access until we have actual pages to where we can place them on the other language wikis. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 04:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Check the equivalent pages at French and Latin Wikipedia, as I did an initial transcription of some of that text a while back. :) , By looking at those (and use of {{tl|iwpages}} and {tl|IwPageSection}} you might save some time.  I did this one transcription already.

Another note:  In building for mainspace:  On a longer acts the intention was to try and use the actual Short Title as the Work name if defined. The convention otherwise seems to be  &lt;Subject&gt; (taken from the The Chronologicial Table of The Statutes)&gt; &lt;year&gt;. Finding official short titles can be an involved process for early Statutes though.  

Elsewhere on Wikisource/Commons , there are scans of Statutes Of The Realm, which might assist Translation efforts. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:I know enough Latin and French that I can make passable attempts at directly translating them myself, but I'm not exactly sure where the translation I would produce should go. Would it be considered original research and thus need to be independenty published? I've got a little editing experience here, but in the main I guess I'm still kind of a noob. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 10:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Wikisource supports user translations of Non English works,  but they should be clearly marked as Trabnslated by Wikisource, and seperate from other transcription efforts. As mentioned some of the Non English in Ruffhead was translated in &quot;Statutes of The Realm&quot; , but if you want to attempt your own Law translation feel free, Don't use GoogleTranslate as what it produces isn't quite the samewhen tested with a short section where Ruffhead has both the origianl and English translation. Please note that the French is Law French not Modern French. Also some translation of early statutes aren't always literal translation (as some of the parrallel printing indciates.) The reason why the Non English wasn't included here was to do with Wikisource policy at the time the work was started.
: If you want to attempt translations, feel free, but bear in mind other works  on Law might have done so already. For some items (although less likely for repealed items) a semi-official translation might be on legislation.gov.uk BTW[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
: I would suggest initially doing the translation in you Userspace, and then ask how to possibly link them on the Scriptorum:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Any inklings you can share on why the class block template isn't working on [[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 4.djvu/109|this]] and the previous few pages? [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 20:47, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
{{ping|Foofighter20x}} - The styles will need to imported from another volume and put on the relevantpage, currently VOl4 has no Indexstyles defined apparently.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:38, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

Hello. May I ask what is the benefit of edits like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:World_Fiction_1922%E2%80%931923.djvu/579&amp;curid=4560724&amp;diff=14620053&amp;oldid=14336619 this]? -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

: A long term goal to simplify the running header code used across wikisource. Currently there are around 86,000 single content running headers that are preventing the simplification. If you think alternately Rh/1 can be replaced with left/right/center appropriately, I have no objections provided that it's done consistently across a work, which is what the focus of some recent editing efforts is. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Talk page watcher, just stopping by to '''endorse''' this simplification of the running header code used across Wikisource. It is a broadly good thing to do. [[User:BD2412|&lt;span style=&quot;background:lightgreen;color:inherit;&quot;&gt;''BD2412''&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 14:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

::: Won't be following this up just yet, (but you are welcome to review Rh/1 usage) I am running a check-back on my delinting efforts outside content namespace over the last 10 years or so. If you want to review my past delints as well feel free. Currently looking at Talk namepsace. :) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

== Indexes ==

The [[Special:LintErrors/obsolete-tag|remaining pages]] of Index are free of Obsolete tags, and linthint's green when I scan these pages after publishing my edits, but I'm unable to clear Wikisource's claim of an obsolete tag remaining. I've tried purging page, hard purging, null editing, and got no change. Is it a wait it out situation, or am I overlooking something? [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 14:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Zinnober9}} Not just you, same issue. Consider raising a Phabriactor ticket as it's a headscratcher for me as well. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

== Explanation for edit? ==

Hi there! I noticed you made a [[Special:Diff/14664794|couple]] [[Special:Diff/14664802|edits]] to my userpage — however, I don't see any difference in the page before and after. Can you clarify what those are about? Thanks! [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|Waldyrious}} The edits are to do with night-mode: If you set the background color, you alos have to set the text color. If the repair worked would shouldn't see any changes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::Ah, got it! Thank you :) [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== suggestion ==

change &quot;Apologies for the intteruption, but this was showing up on a list ofLints, missing style&quot;
to
&quot;Ignore this (I'm making a minor change to fix a list of missing style problems. sorry for the interuption&quot;

It took me a while to realise that I needed to do nothing.

cheers
[[User:Victuallers|Victuallers]] ([[User talk:Victuallers|talk]]) 14:48, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

== your assistance please... ==

You [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Geo_Swan&amp;oldid=951910035&amp;diff=960976114 left a note] on my user talk page on commons, with a link [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;offset=1730225&amp;exactmatch=1&amp;tag=i&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=829%0D%0A828%0D%0A711%0D%0A710%0D%0A115%0D%0A107%0D%0A106%0D%0A105%0D%0A103%0D%0A102%0D%0A101%0D%0A100%0D%0A15%0D%0A13%0D%0A14%0D%0A12%0D%0A11%0D%0A9%0D%0A8%0D%0A10%0D%0A7%0D%0A6%0D%0A1%0D%0A2%0D%0A3] here, which, unfortunately, wasn't helpful... 

I saw it started with [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag Lint errors: Missing end tag], and I started looking through the output on those pages, until I got to a page that listed some pages in user space I worked on.  I took a look at them, trying to figure out which tags were missing, without success.  Can you help me determine this?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 13:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

: {{ping|Geo Swan}} What's missing is for the most part italic and bold, which must be paired on a single line. I.e you typed &lt;nowiki&gt;'''&lt;/nowiki&gt; or &lt;nowiki&gt;''&lt;/nowiki&gt; at the start of a line, but forget to type the equivalent at the end of the line.  I was also asking if these were drafts you'd later migrated to scan backed Pages.  

I also use a script when editing pages - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint - it provides a button in the top of pages which when expanded gives a list of unpaired tags.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

:filtering the list even more - https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;exactmatch=&amp;tag=all&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=User%3AGeo+Swan&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=2  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:* Thanks for your heads-up, and for [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User:Geo_Swan/working/Summary_of_Evidence_memos/pg256&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14675722 this] example.  
:* What is ns104?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 17:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Page: namespace . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

== span and color ==

Where is the wiki documentation is &quot;color&quot; now required to be explicitly specified in a span tag? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

: You raise a reasonable point, I'm not sure the requirement that backgroound/background-color must now be accompanied by (foreground) color is adequately documented at Wikisource. It is however documented alongside the description of the relevant Lint Error in the documentation at Meta. Migration of FONT to span may alos have simmilar issues.  If you want me to start reverting every single coonversion I can do that, but I feel strongly it would create far more noise than it solves. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In relation to 'night-mode' - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/night-mode-unaware-background-color
:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In reltaion to FONT-&gt;SPAN , https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/obsolete-tag

== Finding dumb typos ==

How do you find errors like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Nella_Larson_-_Quicksand.pdf/301&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=14690241 this] so quickly? Do you somehow subscribe to [[Special:LintErrors]]? I'd like to reduce your overhead by at least quickly cleaning up my own mistakes. Thanks. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 21:26, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Koavf}} I just monitor to the list of LintErrors on a regular basis. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:28, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

== Need help ==

Please take a look here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Talk:War_of_the_Classes#Duplication_of_chapter_heading -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 16:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
: I think it's fixed now. -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 18:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

== Old transcriptions in User Space.. ==

I apologize for my late reply to [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJan.Kamenicek&amp;diff=14674500&amp;oldid=14673810 your request] regarding some old transcriptions in user space. The reason is I have been only rarely online recently due to being very busy in my offline life. However, I am not really sure what action is requested from me. If you think they should be deleted, it would probably be best to propose their deletion via the usual process. I am afraid I cannot just speedy a page from a user's space without any serious reason. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

: The message was that I was asking if you had time to rescue any of them as potential POTM or Monthy Challanges, duplicates could be courtesy blanking, but that might be contentious, so would have to go through the normal 'Proposed Deletion' process.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 10:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::I see. Not sure if I will have time for that, but you may try to write directly to the POTM or Monthly Challenges talk pages. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

== Scribners jpegs ==

I almost undid your undo.  I need a few minutes to think about it.  You correct me too quickly, I learn by my little bits of clean up.  {{diff|14749908|text=14:50 and 14:52|olddiff=14749906}}

You gave me less than what, less than 3 minutes to figure it out?

Your edits recently have been mostly bogus (meaning I did not make that mistake) and creepy.  I am already cringing when I see you have been on my work.  

But that was a good template.  Some one has to figure out how to separate this from the google spam, I think.

ShakespeareFan00 should always be very credible with anything css.

Okay so
#More time between my edit and yours.
#Always have credible edits.
#Detach from my google spam

And a large part of my life would be better, great even.  I learned a lot from you.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

: Okay so you are concerned that putting the suggested fix back in was done to quickly?  None of my recent edits were anything other than good faith attempts to make reapirs to resolve lint concerns and related issues.   Do you have a specific list of other edits you have concerns about? If you have getting stressed from having your efforts 'reapaired' than I strongly suggest taking a few days away from contributing. Are you using AI or a a transaltion tool because your comments above sound like a generated response BTW   [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

== Ppoem native rules ==

Would you mind spelling out what spec exactly you have in mind? Two things need to be defined: input, what the user enters, and output, what it should produce. {{sm|The input format at {{tl|ppoem/testcases}} could be criticized because it looks kinda like HTML, with the angle brackets, especially when you compare comment start: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--&lt;/nowiki&gt; and that: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;-&lt;/nowiki&gt; (maybe not a real problem).}} It's mostly about the output that I don't know what to do. If we want to be semantically correct, it's a kind of &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, taking some care to arrange the stanzas around it. This would mean that it would always separate stanzas in two, which semantically may be meh. If that isn't too bad, this'd be option #1 for me. There are plenty of ways to fake horizontal lines, e.g. a span with &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot; inline&gt;height:0px;border-top:1px solid black;display:inline-block;&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;, but that is surely bad semantic-wise. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:27, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Hmm.  Do you have an alternate syntax.. ?   We need to be able to do {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem though. 

Standard wikitest would be  ----  for a rule on a single line , but that doesn't allow for the additional paramaters {{tl|rule}} did.

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;
&lt;-:x&gt; Outputs the same as {{tlx|rule|4em}} , but appropriately centered within the ppoem outer container, using an HR, which breaks stanzas if encountered. Is it possible to have a means of adding addition params stop set style? or do he have something like &lt;-:width:height:style&gt; ?  hmm...

&lt;--:x&gt;  Was intended to be a double rule (essentially a style change). with the same params.
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
Note: The rules need to collapse, I.e each {{tag|hr|s}} must be it's own line, with appropriate spacing. And obviously rules need to be outside the 'stanzas' (The implied Stanza break you were favouring. 

[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:On input syntax, maybe the same thing replacing the angle brackets by something else? IDK. I wouldn't die on that hill anyhow
:The hr's are not line content, and so would not in fact be inside any lines, it would be outside lines and stanzas.
:On default params, I think {{tl|rule}}'s way of putting full height when nothing given is better, because 4em wasn't used any more than 3em, or 6em, or 5em (and also, if it's default it's easier to find, with &lt;-:100%&gt;(the way to get it if it's not default) maybe being not intuitive, unlike the ems).
:On multiple rules, it'd maybe be better, as very often when there are multiple they are not the same size, to allow putting something like &lt;code&gt;&lt;-:8em:4px&gt;&lt;-:6em:2px&gt;&lt;/code&gt; on a single line (in the input) for these two hrs to be right after each others in the output, with nothing in between. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:45, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Oh, also, on rule inside ppoem: this would get all of rule's functionalities, and it trying to parse where the p tag will autoclose, to try and make a cleaner stanza break around it, would be an absolute nightmare. Remaking a specialized parser is a pain, and it's likely to not understand code exactly the same way mw does (I've done it once, for a simplified parser), and if we try and rely on mediawiki parsing, we'll have to match the output to the input, which is also complicated.
:There are very few of these 600 invalid uses that should've been valid. There were the {{tl|rule}} ones, and {{tl|cr}} can hopefully be made inline-block (intend to look into it sometime soon), and apart from that, I don't remember any (the rest was things like FI, nesting ppoem, cblock, &amp;c). Once this is done, there'll be no use for {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem, and normally we don't have another template to replicate. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: I'm not set on the angle brackets,  If you can find something that is wasy to parse for, feel free to use it.  I support your idea width:height btw ;).. Do we have custom rules which set a style attrib on the {{tag|hr|s}} ?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:(width:height was your idea, not mine, I just shamelessly stole it from your answer.) Custom styles is just {{tlx|1=rule|2=...|3=style=...}}, I think. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: So we  would need a way to have the style in the syntax, or better would be the classing approach already supported for lines and stanzas...  ;)
::Oh. very good idea. So &lt;-:width:height:class1 class2 class3 ...&gt;, with classes separated by spaces, adding .ws-poem-[name]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:05, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Exactly . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])
::::And output, it would be an hr, with class ws-poem-rule and user-added classes, and with style height:what the user gave or 1px if they didn't give anything, and width:what they gave or 100%. (The ws-poem-rule class would permit work-scale styling, e.g. if all rules inside ppoems are in this book 4em or 6em or whatever. Will get at work in sandbox and show you end result when I'm done. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:12, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Well, I guess this is all made moot now, apart maybe from the use it would still have of better semantics (the rules not being line content)? I'd like your opinion on that. What do you think?
::::Again, I cannot tell you how sorry I am for dragging you into that mess, essentially for nothing. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:14, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

== The Night Born ==

Thanks for your edits there. I see now how fine block is supposed to work across pages. (I wonder if it is worth mentioning that on the template page). I don't see what nopf is doing - would you be so kind as to explain ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:The {{tl|nopf}} is there to stop the last line of the page becoming it's own paragraph. (Known glitch in Proofread page/Mediawiki [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 07:54, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

== fsn and (all)smallcaps ==

Last january, {{tl|fsn}} was changed by you to normalise not only italic, as was its purpose till then, but also smallcaps. This breaks some stuff, as up to 2024 it did not remove smallcaps. Moreover, this duplicates the purpose of {{tl|fvn}}. Do you agree that normalising smallcaps should be left to that template, and removed from {{tl|fsn}}? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:32, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

: Do what you think is appropriate, but remember to check usages. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

== In re Eng. Rep. ==

Just a heads up: since I reloaded the 1 ER base file with an assembled pdf of clearer and less-distorted scans from CommonLII (which is why I stopped editing for a few days: was figuring out how to use Python to grab all those files), the default OCR that Wikimedia is using to prefill the body block when loading an uncreated page has been producing ''worse'' quality OCR prefills.

''However'', above the page display window on the right, I've found that changing to the Google OCR in the &quot;Transcribe Text&quot; dropdown and then punching that button that prior to any editing works ''miracles.'' You probably already noticed/knew this, but in case you hadn't/didn't, I'd loathe myself if I didn't save you ''lots'' of editing time by not mentioning it. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 22:35, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

: I was aware of the Google OCR, it was my standard goto.  Thanks for the new scans..  If you can assemble a PDF for the volumes we don't have that would be very useful.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::Yep, that's very much on my radar. The catch in pulling the better scans from Common LII has been that I have to combine all the files in Acrobat Pro and then go through the compiled volume page by page to eliminate all the duplicate pages (i.e., where one case ends and the next begins on the same page, that page will be in each file, hence will be present twice in the assembled Acrobat binder; there's simply no way to automate that process in AAP). On top of that, I still have to find scans of the Eng. Rep. volumes proper that have been posted online so I can also include the front and back matter, which isn't available at Common LII. Still, now that I have the Python code working the way I want it, I've got it on my short term to-do list. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:03, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Always more work to do: Have started to put together the [[The_English_Reports|front page for the set]] and for each volume. I'm also trying to include corrections and date conversions as I go along (within tooltips; see [[The_English_Reports/Volume_1|here]] as to R v. Visc. Purbeck, in re its purported year of decision). --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 21:02, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: You might need to fork the template which was designed primarly for US cases, not British ones? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Sounds like a good idea, but I'm an American, so I'm not exactly sure what all info should be mandatory/required, and what else should be includable. I could always start with what's in [https://www.legalbluebook.com/bluebook/v21/tables/t2-foreign-jurisdictions/t2-43-united-kingdom Table 2.43 of The Bluebook], but a little specialized knowledge from a Brit would be beneficial before I'm so bold to start. Also, at least as far as the Eng. Rep. editors put in references to Mews Dig., I'd think including those snippets from Mews as quasi-headnote in the case page, as I did in [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]]. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 23:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: Generally, if it isn't the original scan, adding headnotes from another source, is an 'annotation' which is generally discouraged, also the headnotes source might not be under a compatible license, unlike the text in the scans. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 00:03, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
::I guess I should clarify what I mean by &quot;adding headnotes&quot;: I'm only thinking of putting that Mews material in the notes block of the header template at the top of the transcluded presentation pages (again, see [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]] toward the top in the gray). In support of that, I'll add that I think the only parts of the Eng. Rep. that weren't published before Jan. 1, 1930 are the two index volumes; if that's the case and they are still copyrighted (which I'm not sure they ever were), they'll be out of copyright in a year... Given that all those substantive volumes are public domain, their references to Mews necessarily implies that such Mews material is also public domain. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Question: another editor has come in and removed the page numbering markers I put in the index pages for vols. 76 and 77 (i.e., where it demarks where the different volumes of the contained editions, are, such as 1 Co., 2 Co., etc.). Is my inclusion of those frowned on? Figured I should ask someone with experience before I start a potential reversion fight. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 06:38, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Shouldn't be a problem. Often the page number removal isn't intended. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:02, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

== Front matter page numbers ==

I've noticed several recent books where you've set of the from matter page numbering with errors.  You seem to be assuming the title page is '''i''', but for the books you've set up, that isn't the case.  When there is a half-title, ''that's'' usually page '''i''' (except in cases where some arbitrary earlier page is the starting point). --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:11, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: Thanks, I'll take another look. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Can you list some specific examples, as the ones I've had another look at seem to do the front matter from the Half title? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::See for example [[Index:Rainbow Valley text.djvu]], where the Half-title is the start page, and there is a leaf for the Frontispiece inserted between pages ii and iii.  Plate-beating leaves are usually inserted after the printed pages are folded.  Or see [[Index:Red Harvest.pdf]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:38, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Already corrected. and I am finding some others as I check.  Thanks for the heads up, List anymore you find below :).  
:(Aside) A lot of the Duplicate Page-ID's seems to be front matter with duplicative ID's. The intent was (with checks) to replace some of these with 'roman' numerals from the works concerned? , For image plates I was considering amending them to use  &quot;(sp&lt;djvupage&gt;)&quot; or &quot;(fp&lt;adjacent pageid&gt;)&quot; depending on the work. What are your suggestions? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::Two issues to consider: (1) Our recommendations explicitly allow for named pages when the work in question does not have a clear numbering system for pages in the front matter. (2) Changing page numbers / naming can break page links, so it shouldn't happen unless it's absolutely necessary.
::Why &quot;sp&quot;?  And where was the change to image page naming discussed? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::: sp=Scanpage. I hadn't raised the issue on Scriptorum yet, so will not be changing existing numbering (other than the Half/Title confusion you pointed out.).  Something needs to be done about the 'linter noise' though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:07, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

==Quick question==
Hey ShakespeareFan00. On [[Index:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4, STORMS.pdf]], I noticed [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:Monthly_Weather_Review,_Volume_1,_Issue_4,_STORMS.pdf&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14784703 made an edit] changing a X to a C, and as I have seen this done by several editors before, I wanted to know why? I don't even know what the C or X stands for, so hopefully you can explain them as well for a newbie. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 21:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: It means someone checked the uploaded file was complete. Carry on proofreading. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:25, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

== Orphaned categories ==

Hi, these categories that you created have no parents and so are lost in the tree. Can you please review and determine their best position?
* [[:Category:Malformed identifer for numbered div]]
* [[:Category:Parameter3(Numbered Div)]]
Thanks, [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

== Pagelists ==

Thanks for adding pagelists to some of my recently added indexes. (I am still quite new at doing these.) 

Is there an easy way to get those lists ? Or do you have to go through the scans to see what is there ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:08, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

:You have to go through the scans, but an easy and fun way of doing it is at the top right. It's the &quot;wikisource page game&quot;, and it figures it out pretty well. 
:For some reason, when I upload a new document, the scan is not properly available. It always throws an error up, at least for a few hours. Then I remember a day later and come back to it, and @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has already done it for me. [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 06:48, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
::(This &quot;Invalid interval&quot; problem can be fixed by purging the file at commons.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:00, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:FPTI|FPTI]], @[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] - thanks guys. I'll have to have a go at that some time. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:46, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] How does one purge a file at commons? I'm having the same problem with [[Index:Demonology and Devil lore volume 1, conway.djvu]]. Please don't do it for me, I want to learn how to do it so I can stop being bothersome about it. Unless it's something that only a mod or privileged editor can do? — [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:16, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::[[C:Help:Purge|Never mind. Found it.]] [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Nah, it's easy. There's a &quot;purge clock&quot; (or perhaps &quot;UTC clock&quot;, I don't remember exactly) gadget. Once you activate it, you should get a blue clock in the top left menu. Click it to purge. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Squab Culture.djvu]] ==

I note that there is also [[Index:Squab culture (IA squabculture00wood).pdf]] which someone has started work on. Do you think we want both versions ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:02, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

: Prefer Djvu, I'm assuming same exact edition? Take it to Scriptorur or WS:PD? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:53, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

==''The Flowering of Racial Spirit''==
The one on p. ix was fine; the one on p. xi caused the poem in the footnote to render without the poem block formatting. Your new change (which brings p. xi’s formatting in line with p. ix’s) fixes that problem. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:01, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Template:copyvio ==

If this template needs a {{tl:copyvio/e}} at the end, shouldn't that be mentioned on the template page ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:37, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

: It's not generally noticed.  {{tl|copyvio/e}} only exists really to shut the linter up. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 01:39, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

== Too many edit conflicts ==
Too many edit conflicts!  It is not helpful to me.  These volumes sat here for several days, that you pick ''while I am working on it'' to also work on it is disturbing and creates more work for me.  

Tell me which volume you want to work on and I will upload them for you! Thank you in advanced for your understanding of my problems with this.  Truly, ''my problem'' and probably not yours.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:34, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

: Apologies, Did not mean to edit conflict with you.  You did it a much better proofread on the ToC concerned than I ever could. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:27, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Hanging indent]] ==

Could you explain what issues you were seeing with line breaks, and maybe add some cases to [[Template:Hanging indent/testcases]]? It's very inconvenient that {{tl|hanging indent}} doesn't respect standard wikimarkup paragraph breaks, so I'd like to get this sorted out. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 23:32, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

:Part of the issue is the templated DIV in a list which ends up producing:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext&gt;
*&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;
* ...

or 

:&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Mediawiki then wraps or list breaks..  In the latter case the indentation should be migrated to use the proper marginating templates. 

I'm not sure how to fix the underlying issue in the back-end. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

I appreciate you trying to solve these, but this particular template might need a complete rethink, unless someones prepared to hold the developers to actually implementing a solution to the wrapping problem.  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thank you for fixing anchors and format problems in texts processed by me! To be honest, anchor errors could be hard to find, so I'd like to ask how did you spot out them?[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] ([[User talk:廣九直通車|talk]]) 04:18, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:Sharp eyesight, common sense, and &quot;Duplicate ID&quot; lint reporting. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:59, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

== Getting started ==

Hi there! I just got started here on WikiSource, and I created [[Index:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf]] for a place-names book I often reference in my research. I noticed your name in the recent changes list, and you seem to know your way around here, so I just wanted to reach out to make sure this actually is within the scope of WikiSource like I think it is. I was also wondering if I maybe should have changed the title of the document on the Commons first, as I don't see many other index pages titled like the one I just made. Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 17:55, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: Looks okay from a technical perspective.  You have checked it's out of copyright? (Canada is 50 pma) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:04, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's a good question, navigating copyright has been a little confusing for me. This book was published in 1922, but I can't find any available information about when the author died. I guess this would mean copyright is uncertain, and therefore it can't be included? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:09, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:: Well IA seemed to think this was Okay, so you might need to dig a little deeper. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:17, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:::I wasn't the one who originally uploaded the commons file just for clarity, I figured because it was on there it was okay. But now that I got to looking, the copyright justification on IA is ''&quot;Evidence reported by Internet Archive biblio tool for item placenamesofprov00browrich on March 12, 2008: no visible notice of copyright; stated date is 1922.&quot;'' but Thomas. J Brown published ''The commercial printing industry : a leader in New Jersey's changing economy'' in 1984, so that means it's not out of copyright and shouldn't be on here or the Commons, is that right? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:21, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: I did some searchign and found - https://archives.novascotia.ca/vital-statistics/death/?ID=209042 from 1926 which seems to match with details in the work.  The 1984 entry is a potentially a different person. Someone publhsing in 1922 would have to be around 80 in 1984 (not impossible but highly unlikely, given the different location). I say it's okay until we get other infromation. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:30, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::Wow, I guess you're a lot better at Google-Fu than I am. I appreciate you going out of your way to find that. In that case, I guess I'm good to keep going. Thanks a lot. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:36, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

If you're [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index%3ADark_Hester.djvu&amp;diff=14917389&amp;oldid=14917096 using rh/1 with a class], then why wasn't the &quot;sp&quot; formatting placed in the style sheet as well? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:01, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

: If you know the CSS to do it, I'll clean up the existing contributions  I made :) &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=css inline-yes&gt;letter-spacing: &lt;value&gt;?&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:06, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::Use letter-spacing:0.15em; for the same as {{tl|sp}}; you can always examine the code used in the template. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:39, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

== USStatChapHead ==

When chapnum is 1 the template displays {{sc|Chapter I.}} instead of {{sc|Chap. I.}}. Could you add a way to disable that for instances in which we would legitimately need it to say {{sc|Chap. I.}}. See [[Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 6.djvu/283]] for example [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 14:25, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: {{ping|ToxicPea}} attempted to implement {{parameter|noexpand}}  yes {{parameter|noexpand{{=}}yes}} to get the desired behaviour. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:41, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia ==

Thank you very much for all your support over the course of my transcribing of this book. I'm just finishing up extracting the images now before I get started on going through and verifying everything and correcting the last of the errors. One thing I couldn't figure out exactly is what I'm supposed to do with the front cover page. Should I extract the cover image and just use plain text for the title, or do you even need to transcribe the front cover? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 14:26, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: Extract. I think this is too complex to transcribe directly.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you, I think I figured it out.
::Sorry to bother you again so soon, but I've just encountered another issue [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|here]]. I had it in my head that the main point of adding all those anchor links was to allow for wikilinking between the pages in cases like this, but it seems to force an underscore in there. Is there another way to go about this? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 16:33, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::(Sorry for the intrusion) That was related to the way [[Module:Anchor]] implemented {{tl|anchor link}}. The real anchors (which are HTML ids) cannot include spaces, and so the spaces are always replaced by underscores. For the display of the link template, though, it makes more sense to replace the underscores by spaces, so I made it do that. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:45, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks a lot! I had a feeling there might be a solution like that. Much appreciated. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:49, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The color printer (1892).djvu/review]] ==

Is this page required ? (I have no idea what it is doing - it shows as orphaned.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:27, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
: It was a shorthand I was using during the transcrpiton.  Are you trying to clear unused pages, if so I suggest leaving userspace alone. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:29, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::Yes - but this isn't in userspace - in is in indexspace ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:46, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::: Unused shortcut, If orpahaned no need to keep it. as this was presumably subst.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:47, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

== Help in including special latin characters==
I have found some characters such as letters &quot;a&quot; and &quot;o&quot; with double dots below them together with tones above the letters as seen on [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Dictionary_of_the_Foochow_Dialect.pdf/31 this page]. I tried to find them from Latin extended word lists from the edit box and also Google search but can't find any of them. Apparently, [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]] is able to do that on this page [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:DFD_index&amp;action=history DFD Index] with the letter &quot;u&quot; but he is inactive for more than one year. Your help is very much appreciated, thank you. [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 04:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:I'm not sure how Inductiveload found them either.  Have you checked a Unicode charecter search ? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:42, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]], apparently the words can be entered by using a special software. I found[https://cdo.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B9%AB%E5%8A%A9:Ci%C5%8Fng-i%C3%B4ng_t%C4%95%CC%A4k this page] on Foochow Wikipedia in the section  &quot;平話字的輸入法&quot;. Will need some time to figure it out.[[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 11:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Normally your OS lets you enter characters by unicode codepoints. For example if you want ̤̆a, you can enter U+306, then U+324, then &quot;a&quot;. (codepoints of diacritical marks are listed at [[w:Combining Diacritical Marks]]). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], got it, thanks! [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 02:03, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

== Anchor links ==

Hello again - I'm back to finish validating the place-names book now, and there's another issue with the anchor links - If you go to an [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|an individual page]], the anchor links work just fine, but they don't work on the [[Place-Names of the Province of Nova Scotia/A|transclusion]]. I can see what's going on but I'm not sure if it can even be fixed. Am I missing something, or is this just a limitation of the module? Thanks! [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:05, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

: Not sure, ask at Scriptorum/Help [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 11:06, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks, I hadn't found that yet. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
==[[Page:The Zoologist, 4th series, vol 1 (1897).djvu/522]]==
I don’t know how to check for lint errors, so I’m not sure what the technical issue with this page is. I would assume it is owing to the tables at the top of the page, and not the few templates at the bottom. I would go about this by creating in-table template instances, which I can do at some later point if you would like. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:45, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

This was fixed in the CSS, but having two different table formats isn't good practice. The Lint eventually proved to be unrelated to the rendering! (also fixed.). Interesting alternate way to do leaders though, although I would suggest classing the table?  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:33, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
*I hadn’t actually looked at it—it looks like the tables use dotted lines to represent the dots (as opposed to ''dtpl''’s weird single-line wrapped-in table nonsense). I would switch everything to templates, but that’s just because I use templates more than tables for this purpose. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:21, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

==Page counter==
Sorry I think I've seen you put pagelists on my indexes a few times, I try to do it but keep hitting the same problem; I click to use the &quot;Page Counter Game&quot; or whatever it's called, it shows me an image I hit -, -, -, cover, -, -, title, then as soon as we're at Page 1-10 I hit &gt; to skip ahead, but then when I hit &quot;img&quot; at pg32 or whatever...it says that it's the next consecutive page number after title...what am I doing wrong here? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 13:19, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

'&lt;' ' &gt; '  Only changes the image you see.  It doesn't set the number up or advance the page that is being set.   BTW Consider slowing down a little.  There's a general consensus about not just saving recovered OCR into the Page namespace:  I appreciate you are marking as Not-Proofread, but some processing before saving is greatly appreicated by other contributors. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:57, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

::I ''think'' I typically am making improvements to the OCRed text even if only half the page, in part I can't keep track of all the templates you guys are using and such so I've started inserting the {{c and {{smallcaps and {{blackletter for example whenever needed - but I can't remember the method of some of the other stuff and I can't remember where I've seen you use it in the past. Is there some other way to make a pagelist other than manually loading 300 PAGE: files to view whether or not there's an image? I feel like there ''should'' be a way to just view a thumbnail gallery showing ~100 images at a time zoomed way out? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 17:25, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: There isn't that feature that I know of yet. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:29, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Orlando Furioso ==

I am consistently using the same syntax in the Notes as in the main body.  I am deliberately not using {{tl|ppoem}} in this eight-volume set, because it can't handle the long multi-page poetry.  I am formatting the Notes using the same syntax as elsewhere instead of mixing multiple methods. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:46, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: Ah okay, please revert. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:05, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Catchwords on Ruffhead's Statutes at Large ==

I've been marking up the catch words at the bottom of the page as:

{ {right|the} }

because that is what I saw on the finished pages for Ruffhead vol. 9.

I've just seen you've marked a page up with

{ {continues|the} }

Which way is standard? Is there a set of guidelines for Ruffhead anywhere?
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 18:46, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: There are  not guidelines as such. Feel free to write them.   I use continues if it's a continued paragraph. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:52, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::Just found that the discussion page has guidelines:
::[[Index talk:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu]]
::I'll add somethign to that. But should there be a dedicated page to agreed guidelines, and not just comments in a discussion?
::Thanks for yoru reply &amp; help. [[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:08, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Statutory Instruments ==

Do you know of a full list of all the Statutory Instruments? I've just had a colleague ask about an SI rescinded before the annual volume was published, as wasn't included in it. Nor is it listed in the [[Table_of_Government_Orders]] I linked to on IA.
	
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:05, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: I don't sorry.  Other than the compliled lists in the published volumes, the only defintive source I know of for temporary or local ones is legislation.gov.uk.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])

:the IA copy is 'limited preview' and the license is not OGL as this volume pre-dates it.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:39, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Last page ==

Could you please validate [[Page:Astrology (1904).pdf/351]] real quick? Thank you. ^^ [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 21:59, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

== Clearing duplicate IDs ==

Your changes are, in some cases, swapping one set of identical labeling for a different set of identical labeling, in other places, generating nonsense, and in some cases generating information that is flat out incorrect. I think it would be better to work with the community to come up with a better solution before proceeding with more changes.

This is a problem we may ''have'' to live with, because there are some volumes that have repeated page numbers. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:51, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

: As you objected, I'm reverting the attempted fixes. It is now on YOU to find a solution that actually solves the issue of course. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:01, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== Author:Zona Gale ==

Something has gone wrong with {{tl|IA}} causing problems that can be seen at [[Author:Zona Gale]].  So far, I have not been able to identify the specific cause.  &quot;Makeid&quot; was my best guess after checking several things, but a revert and purges have not solved the issue.  Can you spot what is causing the trouble? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:Nvm.  It was your edit to {{tl|IAl}}.  Problem fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:27, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:I'm going to review other edits I made around the same time.. Something HAS broken. Thank you.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:28, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Changing anchors ==

Is there a problem with [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Mrs_Beeton%27s_Book_of_Household_Management.djvu/1253&amp;curid=1988030&amp;diff=15019951&amp;oldid=7479246 this anchor]?  What is the problem?

And are you checking for (and changing) any and all pages that have this anchor as a target?  If not, then you are breaking anchors. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:20, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

: Definitely, It's part of the checks. And here in your linked example it's that I omitted to add the r in the inital transclude. I will however check for broken links on pages updated recently. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Treatise of the Covenant of Grace ==

Thanks for edits while I reminded myself about &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{nop}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; and inserted it at certain points where I had failed to do so earlier in the book.  However I create the individual pages in a text editor based on the EEBO-TCP text (checked with them for permission as far as I recall, or they told me I didn't need it - one or other; in any case it's not a direct copy but saves a lot of work).  In this particular page there will be complications of Greek text in the margin and perhaps identifying where it comes from.  As it's now late here in the UK I'm going to abandon ship for tonight, maybe come back in a few days time, health permitting.  I'm getting towards the end of the original text.  Let's hope I can get to the intended purpose, which is to create,  separately, a modern spelling (otherwise unaltered) edition, which may eventually get printed in book form as the original (composed of scanned and tidied images) has been since 2006.  Wikisource insists that the original one (that I've nearly finished) is done before the respelled one, which is regarded as annotated if I remember aright.[[User:PeterR2|PeterR2]] ([[User talk:PeterR2|talk]]) 23:53, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

== Confusing edit ==

Re: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:White_House_for_Sale_-_How_Princes,_Prime_Ministers,_and_Premiers_Paid_Off_President_Trump_-_Report.pdf/15&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=15055765 this], it seems like you added some CSS possibly for dark mode compatibility. I added the &quot;&lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt;&quot; background for this reason, but maybe I'm missing something. Can you elaborate on why you added this and what I'm maybe overlooking? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:16, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

: When you add a background:, you have to add color: as well.  Hence I used a codex token to provide the appropriate color. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:19, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::But &lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt; {{em text|is}} a color. How did you choose the colors you added? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:56, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I used what I felt was appropriate, and which was dark mode compatible. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:58, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/12]] ==

Thanks for adding the missing c/e tag - though shouldn't it be in the body not in the footer ? As the contents list ends there. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:31, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

== Correction of missing italic closures ==

Hi, I clearly have a blindspot in terms of closing italics, in those cases where it doesn't impact visually (e.g. at the end of lines). Could you point me at whatever tool it is you use to locate them? I chanced upon a reference to the following:{{pbr}}mw.loader.load( &quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint/r.js&amp;action=raw&amp;maxage=86400&amp;ctype=text/javascript&quot; );{{pbr}}which I hoped would do the job, but it doesn't seem to (it only seems to work on transclusions, and primarily objects to duplicate page ID's). Thanks, [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 17:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
: (If you'll excuse the intrusion) [[Special:LintErrors]] lists syntax errors like that; for unclosed tags it's [[Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag]] ([https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag?wpNamespaceRestrictions=&amp;titlecategorysearch=&amp;exactmatch=1&amp;tag=i&amp;template=all here] for unclosed italics). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:05, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kwe0pte64josrikd1gt8sat5d87ydos</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131978</id>
      <parentid>15131912</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:31:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Correction of missing italic closures */</comment>
      <origin>15131978</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="64391" sha1="322hiu5ljbuk7oqih178fexkxqy91c6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;!--
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; width: 60%; margin: auto; padding: 1em; border: solid 2px gold; background-color: royalblue; color: white; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;letter-spacing: 14px;&quot;&gt;CONSIDERING LEAVING&lt;/span&gt;{{#if:|&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;{{{1}}}}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;
An attempt to get other contributor interested in resolving missing tages and Linter errors in Content namespace backfired. 
&lt;/div&gt;
--&gt;

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== Font-size:smaller ==

I'm a bit wrong, but I still don't recommend it. Got to thinking after I adjusted a few that it looked like it was working the same, but never see it used, so [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jonesey95#%22Smaller%22 I asked]. Sharing as an FYI. Apologies for my error. [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 01:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== weird style problem and more ==
I came here to ask what you think is going on with this page [[Page:Arabian Nights Entertainments (1728)-Vol. 6.djvu/1]].  It has no style, yet it is rendering as if it does.  

Then I read your message to consider leaving.  To me it means &quot;they win&quot; &quot;they have everything now&quot;.  

I think that users of your software should each have their own name and not this name.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 08:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
: &lt;s&gt;I haven't edited that page seemingly. Can you explain more cleanly what's going on?&lt;/s&gt;&lt;br&gt;What is the exact error you are seeing? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== 1 Stat. R. 50 ==

[[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu/96]]

Took a stab at it and removed the problematic status. I couldn't spot what made it problematic, so would appreciate your feedback on this one. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 16:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
: I can't recall,  Maybe I marked it problematic as an incomplete format, and forget to remove the status.  Keep going.  BTW if you want to standardise the formatting and make some notes on the talk page.  This volume's formatting is a little convoluted, and probably need someone to make it consistent across all pages. &lt;br&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:56, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:: If I had to guess, I think it was probably the footnotes within the footnotes. I have been going through all the prior pages to try and get used to what's already been done and touching up/standardizing across all pages, but I think this one was the first page I recall seeing footnoted footnotes. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 13:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Another thing: I've decided to include the untranslated text of the chapters in Latin and law-French in the template pages within the frame box, but I am wrapping those untranslated portions in noinclude tags (i.e., when the template is called, those untranslated portions will not render in the calling page). This way, they are at least typed up somewhere, and it's been proofread and is easy to access until we have actual pages to where we can place them on the other language wikis. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 04:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Check the equivalent pages at French and Latin Wikipedia, as I did an initial transcription of some of that text a while back. :) , By looking at those (and use of {{tl|iwpages}} and {tl|IwPageSection}} you might save some time.  I did this one transcription already.

Another note:  In building for mainspace:  On a longer acts the intention was to try and use the actual Short Title as the Work name if defined. The convention otherwise seems to be  &lt;Subject&gt; (taken from the The Chronologicial Table of The Statutes)&gt; &lt;year&gt;. Finding official short titles can be an involved process for early Statutes though.  

Elsewhere on Wikisource/Commons , there are scans of Statutes Of The Realm, which might assist Translation efforts. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:I know enough Latin and French that I can make passable attempts at directly translating them myself, but I'm not exactly sure where the translation I would produce should go. Would it be considered original research and thus need to be independenty published? I've got a little editing experience here, but in the main I guess I'm still kind of a noob. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 10:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Wikisource supports user translations of Non English works,  but they should be clearly marked as Trabnslated by Wikisource, and seperate from other transcription efforts. As mentioned some of the Non English in Ruffhead was translated in &quot;Statutes of The Realm&quot; , but if you want to attempt your own Law translation feel free, Don't use GoogleTranslate as what it produces isn't quite the samewhen tested with a short section where Ruffhead has both the origianl and English translation. Please note that the French is Law French not Modern French. Also some translation of early statutes aren't always literal translation (as some of the parrallel printing indciates.) The reason why the Non English wasn't included here was to do with Wikisource policy at the time the work was started.
: If you want to attempt translations, feel free, but bear in mind other works  on Law might have done so already. For some items (although less likely for repealed items) a semi-official translation might be on legislation.gov.uk BTW[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
: I would suggest initially doing the translation in you Userspace, and then ask how to possibly link them on the Scriptorum:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Any inklings you can share on why the class block template isn't working on [[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 4.djvu/109|this]] and the previous few pages? [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 20:47, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
{{ping|Foofighter20x}} - The styles will need to imported from another volume and put on the relevantpage, currently VOl4 has no Indexstyles defined apparently.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:38, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

Hello. May I ask what is the benefit of edits like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:World_Fiction_1922%E2%80%931923.djvu/579&amp;curid=4560724&amp;diff=14620053&amp;oldid=14336619 this]? -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

: A long term goal to simplify the running header code used across wikisource. Currently there are around 86,000 single content running headers that are preventing the simplification. If you think alternately Rh/1 can be replaced with left/right/center appropriately, I have no objections provided that it's done consistently across a work, which is what the focus of some recent editing efforts is. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Talk page watcher, just stopping by to '''endorse''' this simplification of the running header code used across Wikisource. It is a broadly good thing to do. [[User:BD2412|&lt;span style=&quot;background:lightgreen;color:inherit;&quot;&gt;''BD2412''&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 14:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

::: Won't be following this up just yet, (but you are welcome to review Rh/1 usage) I am running a check-back on my delinting efforts outside content namespace over the last 10 years or so. If you want to review my past delints as well feel free. Currently looking at Talk namepsace. :) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

== Indexes ==

The [[Special:LintErrors/obsolete-tag|remaining pages]] of Index are free of Obsolete tags, and linthint's green when I scan these pages after publishing my edits, but I'm unable to clear Wikisource's claim of an obsolete tag remaining. I've tried purging page, hard purging, null editing, and got no change. Is it a wait it out situation, or am I overlooking something? [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 14:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Zinnober9}} Not just you, same issue. Consider raising a Phabriactor ticket as it's a headscratcher for me as well. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

== Explanation for edit? ==

Hi there! I noticed you made a [[Special:Diff/14664794|couple]] [[Special:Diff/14664802|edits]] to my userpage — however, I don't see any difference in the page before and after. Can you clarify what those are about? Thanks! [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|Waldyrious}} The edits are to do with night-mode: If you set the background color, you alos have to set the text color. If the repair worked would shouldn't see any changes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::Ah, got it! Thank you :) [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== suggestion ==

change &quot;Apologies for the intteruption, but this was showing up on a list ofLints, missing style&quot;
to
&quot;Ignore this (I'm making a minor change to fix a list of missing style problems. sorry for the interuption&quot;

It took me a while to realise that I needed to do nothing.

cheers
[[User:Victuallers|Victuallers]] ([[User talk:Victuallers|talk]]) 14:48, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

== your assistance please... ==

You [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Geo_Swan&amp;oldid=951910035&amp;diff=960976114 left a note] on my user talk page on commons, with a link [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;offset=1730225&amp;exactmatch=1&amp;tag=i&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=829%0D%0A828%0D%0A711%0D%0A710%0D%0A115%0D%0A107%0D%0A106%0D%0A105%0D%0A103%0D%0A102%0D%0A101%0D%0A100%0D%0A15%0D%0A13%0D%0A14%0D%0A12%0D%0A11%0D%0A9%0D%0A8%0D%0A10%0D%0A7%0D%0A6%0D%0A1%0D%0A2%0D%0A3] here, which, unfortunately, wasn't helpful... 

I saw it started with [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag Lint errors: Missing end tag], and I started looking through the output on those pages, until I got to a page that listed some pages in user space I worked on.  I took a look at them, trying to figure out which tags were missing, without success.  Can you help me determine this?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 13:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

: {{ping|Geo Swan}} What's missing is for the most part italic and bold, which must be paired on a single line. I.e you typed &lt;nowiki&gt;'''&lt;/nowiki&gt; or &lt;nowiki&gt;''&lt;/nowiki&gt; at the start of a line, but forget to type the equivalent at the end of the line.  I was also asking if these were drafts you'd later migrated to scan backed Pages.  

I also use a script when editing pages - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint - it provides a button in the top of pages which when expanded gives a list of unpaired tags.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

:filtering the list even more - https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;exactmatch=&amp;tag=all&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=User%3AGeo+Swan&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=2  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:* Thanks for your heads-up, and for [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User:Geo_Swan/working/Summary_of_Evidence_memos/pg256&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14675722 this] example.  
:* What is ns104?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 17:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Page: namespace . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

== span and color ==

Where is the wiki documentation is &quot;color&quot; now required to be explicitly specified in a span tag? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

: You raise a reasonable point, I'm not sure the requirement that backgroound/background-color must now be accompanied by (foreground) color is adequately documented at Wikisource. It is however documented alongside the description of the relevant Lint Error in the documentation at Meta. Migration of FONT to span may alos have simmilar issues.  If you want me to start reverting every single coonversion I can do that, but I feel strongly it would create far more noise than it solves. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In relation to 'night-mode' - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/night-mode-unaware-background-color
:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In reltaion to FONT-&gt;SPAN , https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/obsolete-tag

== Finding dumb typos ==

How do you find errors like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Nella_Larson_-_Quicksand.pdf/301&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=14690241 this] so quickly? Do you somehow subscribe to [[Special:LintErrors]]? I'd like to reduce your overhead by at least quickly cleaning up my own mistakes. Thanks. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 21:26, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Koavf}} I just monitor to the list of LintErrors on a regular basis. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:28, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

== Need help ==

Please take a look here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Talk:War_of_the_Classes#Duplication_of_chapter_heading -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 16:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
: I think it's fixed now. -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 18:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

== Old transcriptions in User Space.. ==

I apologize for my late reply to [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJan.Kamenicek&amp;diff=14674500&amp;oldid=14673810 your request] regarding some old transcriptions in user space. The reason is I have been only rarely online recently due to being very busy in my offline life. However, I am not really sure what action is requested from me. If you think they should be deleted, it would probably be best to propose their deletion via the usual process. I am afraid I cannot just speedy a page from a user's space without any serious reason. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

: The message was that I was asking if you had time to rescue any of them as potential POTM or Monthy Challanges, duplicates could be courtesy blanking, but that might be contentious, so would have to go through the normal 'Proposed Deletion' process.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 10:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::I see. Not sure if I will have time for that, but you may try to write directly to the POTM or Monthly Challenges talk pages. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

== Scribners jpegs ==

I almost undid your undo.  I need a few minutes to think about it.  You correct me too quickly, I learn by my little bits of clean up.  {{diff|14749908|text=14:50 and 14:52|olddiff=14749906}}

You gave me less than what, less than 3 minutes to figure it out?

Your edits recently have been mostly bogus (meaning I did not make that mistake) and creepy.  I am already cringing when I see you have been on my work.  

But that was a good template.  Some one has to figure out how to separate this from the google spam, I think.

ShakespeareFan00 should always be very credible with anything css.

Okay so
#More time between my edit and yours.
#Always have credible edits.
#Detach from my google spam

And a large part of my life would be better, great even.  I learned a lot from you.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

: Okay so you are concerned that putting the suggested fix back in was done to quickly?  None of my recent edits were anything other than good faith attempts to make reapirs to resolve lint concerns and related issues.   Do you have a specific list of other edits you have concerns about? If you have getting stressed from having your efforts 'reapaired' than I strongly suggest taking a few days away from contributing. Are you using AI or a a transaltion tool because your comments above sound like a generated response BTW   [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

== Ppoem native rules ==

Would you mind spelling out what spec exactly you have in mind? Two things need to be defined: input, what the user enters, and output, what it should produce. {{sm|The input format at {{tl|ppoem/testcases}} could be criticized because it looks kinda like HTML, with the angle brackets, especially when you compare comment start: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--&lt;/nowiki&gt; and that: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;-&lt;/nowiki&gt; (maybe not a real problem).}} It's mostly about the output that I don't know what to do. If we want to be semantically correct, it's a kind of &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, taking some care to arrange the stanzas around it. This would mean that it would always separate stanzas in two, which semantically may be meh. If that isn't too bad, this'd be option #1 for me. There are plenty of ways to fake horizontal lines, e.g. a span with &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot; inline&gt;height:0px;border-top:1px solid black;display:inline-block;&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;, but that is surely bad semantic-wise. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:27, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Hmm.  Do you have an alternate syntax.. ?   We need to be able to do {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem though. 

Standard wikitest would be  ----  for a rule on a single line , but that doesn't allow for the additional paramaters {{tl|rule}} did.

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;
&lt;-:x&gt; Outputs the same as {{tlx|rule|4em}} , but appropriately centered within the ppoem outer container, using an HR, which breaks stanzas if encountered. Is it possible to have a means of adding addition params stop set style? or do he have something like &lt;-:width:height:style&gt; ?  hmm...

&lt;--:x&gt;  Was intended to be a double rule (essentially a style change). with the same params.
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
Note: The rules need to collapse, I.e each {{tag|hr|s}} must be it's own line, with appropriate spacing. And obviously rules need to be outside the 'stanzas' (The implied Stanza break you were favouring. 

[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:On input syntax, maybe the same thing replacing the angle brackets by something else? IDK. I wouldn't die on that hill anyhow
:The hr's are not line content, and so would not in fact be inside any lines, it would be outside lines and stanzas.
:On default params, I think {{tl|rule}}'s way of putting full height when nothing given is better, because 4em wasn't used any more than 3em, or 6em, or 5em (and also, if it's default it's easier to find, with &lt;-:100%&gt;(the way to get it if it's not default) maybe being not intuitive, unlike the ems).
:On multiple rules, it'd maybe be better, as very often when there are multiple they are not the same size, to allow putting something like &lt;code&gt;&lt;-:8em:4px&gt;&lt;-:6em:2px&gt;&lt;/code&gt; on a single line (in the input) for these two hrs to be right after each others in the output, with nothing in between. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:45, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Oh, also, on rule inside ppoem: this would get all of rule's functionalities, and it trying to parse where the p tag will autoclose, to try and make a cleaner stanza break around it, would be an absolute nightmare. Remaking a specialized parser is a pain, and it's likely to not understand code exactly the same way mw does (I've done it once, for a simplified parser), and if we try and rely on mediawiki parsing, we'll have to match the output to the input, which is also complicated.
:There are very few of these 600 invalid uses that should've been valid. There were the {{tl|rule}} ones, and {{tl|cr}} can hopefully be made inline-block (intend to look into it sometime soon), and apart from that, I don't remember any (the rest was things like FI, nesting ppoem, cblock, &amp;c). Once this is done, there'll be no use for {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem, and normally we don't have another template to replicate. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: I'm not set on the angle brackets,  If you can find something that is wasy to parse for, feel free to use it.  I support your idea width:height btw ;).. Do we have custom rules which set a style attrib on the {{tag|hr|s}} ?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:(width:height was your idea, not mine, I just shamelessly stole it from your answer.) Custom styles is just {{tlx|1=rule|2=...|3=style=...}}, I think. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: So we  would need a way to have the style in the syntax, or better would be the classing approach already supported for lines and stanzas...  ;)
::Oh. very good idea. So &lt;-:width:height:class1 class2 class3 ...&gt;, with classes separated by spaces, adding .ws-poem-[name]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:05, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Exactly . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])
::::And output, it would be an hr, with class ws-poem-rule and user-added classes, and with style height:what the user gave or 1px if they didn't give anything, and width:what they gave or 100%. (The ws-poem-rule class would permit work-scale styling, e.g. if all rules inside ppoems are in this book 4em or 6em or whatever. Will get at work in sandbox and show you end result when I'm done. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:12, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Well, I guess this is all made moot now, apart maybe from the use it would still have of better semantics (the rules not being line content)? I'd like your opinion on that. What do you think?
::::Again, I cannot tell you how sorry I am for dragging you into that mess, essentially for nothing. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:14, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

== The Night Born ==

Thanks for your edits there. I see now how fine block is supposed to work across pages. (I wonder if it is worth mentioning that on the template page). I don't see what nopf is doing - would you be so kind as to explain ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:The {{tl|nopf}} is there to stop the last line of the page becoming it's own paragraph. (Known glitch in Proofread page/Mediawiki [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 07:54, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

== fsn and (all)smallcaps ==

Last january, {{tl|fsn}} was changed by you to normalise not only italic, as was its purpose till then, but also smallcaps. This breaks some stuff, as up to 2024 it did not remove smallcaps. Moreover, this duplicates the purpose of {{tl|fvn}}. Do you agree that normalising smallcaps should be left to that template, and removed from {{tl|fsn}}? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:32, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

: Do what you think is appropriate, but remember to check usages. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

== In re Eng. Rep. ==

Just a heads up: since I reloaded the 1 ER base file with an assembled pdf of clearer and less-distorted scans from CommonLII (which is why I stopped editing for a few days: was figuring out how to use Python to grab all those files), the default OCR that Wikimedia is using to prefill the body block when loading an uncreated page has been producing ''worse'' quality OCR prefills.

''However'', above the page display window on the right, I've found that changing to the Google OCR in the &quot;Transcribe Text&quot; dropdown and then punching that button that prior to any editing works ''miracles.'' You probably already noticed/knew this, but in case you hadn't/didn't, I'd loathe myself if I didn't save you ''lots'' of editing time by not mentioning it. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 22:35, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

: I was aware of the Google OCR, it was my standard goto.  Thanks for the new scans..  If you can assemble a PDF for the volumes we don't have that would be very useful.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::Yep, that's very much on my radar. The catch in pulling the better scans from Common LII has been that I have to combine all the files in Acrobat Pro and then go through the compiled volume page by page to eliminate all the duplicate pages (i.e., where one case ends and the next begins on the same page, that page will be in each file, hence will be present twice in the assembled Acrobat binder; there's simply no way to automate that process in AAP). On top of that, I still have to find scans of the Eng. Rep. volumes proper that have been posted online so I can also include the front and back matter, which isn't available at Common LII. Still, now that I have the Python code working the way I want it, I've got it on my short term to-do list. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:03, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Always more work to do: Have started to put together the [[The_English_Reports|front page for the set]] and for each volume. I'm also trying to include corrections and date conversions as I go along (within tooltips; see [[The_English_Reports/Volume_1|here]] as to R v. Visc. Purbeck, in re its purported year of decision). --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 21:02, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: You might need to fork the template which was designed primarly for US cases, not British ones? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Sounds like a good idea, but I'm an American, so I'm not exactly sure what all info should be mandatory/required, and what else should be includable. I could always start with what's in [https://www.legalbluebook.com/bluebook/v21/tables/t2-foreign-jurisdictions/t2-43-united-kingdom Table 2.43 of The Bluebook], but a little specialized knowledge from a Brit would be beneficial before I'm so bold to start. Also, at least as far as the Eng. Rep. editors put in references to Mews Dig., I'd think including those snippets from Mews as quasi-headnote in the case page, as I did in [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]]. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 23:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: Generally, if it isn't the original scan, adding headnotes from another source, is an 'annotation' which is generally discouraged, also the headnotes source might not be under a compatible license, unlike the text in the scans. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 00:03, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
::I guess I should clarify what I mean by &quot;adding headnotes&quot;: I'm only thinking of putting that Mews material in the notes block of the header template at the top of the transcluded presentation pages (again, see [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]] toward the top in the gray). In support of that, I'll add that I think the only parts of the Eng. Rep. that weren't published before Jan. 1, 1930 are the two index volumes; if that's the case and they are still copyrighted (which I'm not sure they ever were), they'll be out of copyright in a year... Given that all those substantive volumes are public domain, their references to Mews necessarily implies that such Mews material is also public domain. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Question: another editor has come in and removed the page numbering markers I put in the index pages for vols. 76 and 77 (i.e., where it demarks where the different volumes of the contained editions, are, such as 1 Co., 2 Co., etc.). Is my inclusion of those frowned on? Figured I should ask someone with experience before I start a potential reversion fight. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 06:38, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Shouldn't be a problem. Often the page number removal isn't intended. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:02, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

== Front matter page numbers ==

I've noticed several recent books where you've set of the from matter page numbering with errors.  You seem to be assuming the title page is '''i''', but for the books you've set up, that isn't the case.  When there is a half-title, ''that's'' usually page '''i''' (except in cases where some arbitrary earlier page is the starting point). --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:11, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: Thanks, I'll take another look. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Can you list some specific examples, as the ones I've had another look at seem to do the front matter from the Half title? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::See for example [[Index:Rainbow Valley text.djvu]], where the Half-title is the start page, and there is a leaf for the Frontispiece inserted between pages ii and iii.  Plate-beating leaves are usually inserted after the printed pages are folded.  Or see [[Index:Red Harvest.pdf]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:38, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Already corrected. and I am finding some others as I check.  Thanks for the heads up, List anymore you find below :).  
:(Aside) A lot of the Duplicate Page-ID's seems to be front matter with duplicative ID's. The intent was (with checks) to replace some of these with 'roman' numerals from the works concerned? , For image plates I was considering amending them to use  &quot;(sp&lt;djvupage&gt;)&quot; or &quot;(fp&lt;adjacent pageid&gt;)&quot; depending on the work. What are your suggestions? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::Two issues to consider: (1) Our recommendations explicitly allow for named pages when the work in question does not have a clear numbering system for pages in the front matter. (2) Changing page numbers / naming can break page links, so it shouldn't happen unless it's absolutely necessary.
::Why &quot;sp&quot;?  And where was the change to image page naming discussed? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::: sp=Scanpage. I hadn't raised the issue on Scriptorum yet, so will not be changing existing numbering (other than the Half/Title confusion you pointed out.).  Something needs to be done about the 'linter noise' though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:07, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

==Quick question==
Hey ShakespeareFan00. On [[Index:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4, STORMS.pdf]], I noticed [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:Monthly_Weather_Review,_Volume_1,_Issue_4,_STORMS.pdf&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14784703 made an edit] changing a X to a C, and as I have seen this done by several editors before, I wanted to know why? I don't even know what the C or X stands for, so hopefully you can explain them as well for a newbie. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 21:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: It means someone checked the uploaded file was complete. Carry on proofreading. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:25, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

== Orphaned categories ==

Hi, these categories that you created have no parents and so are lost in the tree. Can you please review and determine their best position?
* [[:Category:Malformed identifer for numbered div]]
* [[:Category:Parameter3(Numbered Div)]]
Thanks, [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

== Pagelists ==

Thanks for adding pagelists to some of my recently added indexes. (I am still quite new at doing these.) 

Is there an easy way to get those lists ? Or do you have to go through the scans to see what is there ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:08, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

:You have to go through the scans, but an easy and fun way of doing it is at the top right. It's the &quot;wikisource page game&quot;, and it figures it out pretty well. 
:For some reason, when I upload a new document, the scan is not properly available. It always throws an error up, at least for a few hours. Then I remember a day later and come back to it, and @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has already done it for me. [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 06:48, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
::(This &quot;Invalid interval&quot; problem can be fixed by purging the file at commons.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:00, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:FPTI|FPTI]], @[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] - thanks guys. I'll have to have a go at that some time. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:46, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] How does one purge a file at commons? I'm having the same problem with [[Index:Demonology and Devil lore volume 1, conway.djvu]]. Please don't do it for me, I want to learn how to do it so I can stop being bothersome about it. Unless it's something that only a mod or privileged editor can do? — [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:16, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::[[C:Help:Purge|Never mind. Found it.]] [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Nah, it's easy. There's a &quot;purge clock&quot; (or perhaps &quot;UTC clock&quot;, I don't remember exactly) gadget. Once you activate it, you should get a blue clock in the top left menu. Click it to purge. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Squab Culture.djvu]] ==

I note that there is also [[Index:Squab culture (IA squabculture00wood).pdf]] which someone has started work on. Do you think we want both versions ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:02, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

: Prefer Djvu, I'm assuming same exact edition? Take it to Scriptorur or WS:PD? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:53, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

==''The Flowering of Racial Spirit''==
The one on p. ix was fine; the one on p. xi caused the poem in the footnote to render without the poem block formatting. Your new change (which brings p. xi’s formatting in line with p. ix’s) fixes that problem. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:01, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Template:copyvio ==

If this template needs a {{tl:copyvio/e}} at the end, shouldn't that be mentioned on the template page ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:37, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

: It's not generally noticed.  {{tl|copyvio/e}} only exists really to shut the linter up. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 01:39, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

== Too many edit conflicts ==
Too many edit conflicts!  It is not helpful to me.  These volumes sat here for several days, that you pick ''while I am working on it'' to also work on it is disturbing and creates more work for me.  

Tell me which volume you want to work on and I will upload them for you! Thank you in advanced for your understanding of my problems with this.  Truly, ''my problem'' and probably not yours.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:34, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

: Apologies, Did not mean to edit conflict with you.  You did it a much better proofread on the ToC concerned than I ever could. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:27, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Hanging indent]] ==

Could you explain what issues you were seeing with line breaks, and maybe add some cases to [[Template:Hanging indent/testcases]]? It's very inconvenient that {{tl|hanging indent}} doesn't respect standard wikimarkup paragraph breaks, so I'd like to get this sorted out. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 23:32, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

:Part of the issue is the templated DIV in a list which ends up producing:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext&gt;
*&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;
* ...

or 

:&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Mediawiki then wraps or list breaks..  In the latter case the indentation should be migrated to use the proper marginating templates. 

I'm not sure how to fix the underlying issue in the back-end. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

I appreciate you trying to solve these, but this particular template might need a complete rethink, unless someones prepared to hold the developers to actually implementing a solution to the wrapping problem.  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thank you for fixing anchors and format problems in texts processed by me! To be honest, anchor errors could be hard to find, so I'd like to ask how did you spot out them?[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] ([[User talk:廣九直通車|talk]]) 04:18, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:Sharp eyesight, common sense, and &quot;Duplicate ID&quot; lint reporting. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:59, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

== Getting started ==

Hi there! I just got started here on WikiSource, and I created [[Index:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf]] for a place-names book I often reference in my research. I noticed your name in the recent changes list, and you seem to know your way around here, so I just wanted to reach out to make sure this actually is within the scope of WikiSource like I think it is. I was also wondering if I maybe should have changed the title of the document on the Commons first, as I don't see many other index pages titled like the one I just made. Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 17:55, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: Looks okay from a technical perspective.  You have checked it's out of copyright? (Canada is 50 pma) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:04, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's a good question, navigating copyright has been a little confusing for me. This book was published in 1922, but I can't find any available information about when the author died. I guess this would mean copyright is uncertain, and therefore it can't be included? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:09, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:: Well IA seemed to think this was Okay, so you might need to dig a little deeper. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:17, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:::I wasn't the one who originally uploaded the commons file just for clarity, I figured because it was on there it was okay. But now that I got to looking, the copyright justification on IA is ''&quot;Evidence reported by Internet Archive biblio tool for item placenamesofprov00browrich on March 12, 2008: no visible notice of copyright; stated date is 1922.&quot;'' but Thomas. J Brown published ''The commercial printing industry : a leader in New Jersey's changing economy'' in 1984, so that means it's not out of copyright and shouldn't be on here or the Commons, is that right? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:21, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: I did some searchign and found - https://archives.novascotia.ca/vital-statistics/death/?ID=209042 from 1926 which seems to match with details in the work.  The 1984 entry is a potentially a different person. Someone publhsing in 1922 would have to be around 80 in 1984 (not impossible but highly unlikely, given the different location). I say it's okay until we get other infromation. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:30, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::Wow, I guess you're a lot better at Google-Fu than I am. I appreciate you going out of your way to find that. In that case, I guess I'm good to keep going. Thanks a lot. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:36, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

If you're [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index%3ADark_Hester.djvu&amp;diff=14917389&amp;oldid=14917096 using rh/1 with a class], then why wasn't the &quot;sp&quot; formatting placed in the style sheet as well? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:01, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

: If you know the CSS to do it, I'll clean up the existing contributions  I made :) &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=css inline-yes&gt;letter-spacing: &lt;value&gt;?&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:06, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::Use letter-spacing:0.15em; for the same as {{tl|sp}}; you can always examine the code used in the template. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:39, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

== USStatChapHead ==

When chapnum is 1 the template displays {{sc|Chapter I.}} instead of {{sc|Chap. I.}}. Could you add a way to disable that for instances in which we would legitimately need it to say {{sc|Chap. I.}}. See [[Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 6.djvu/283]] for example [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 14:25, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: {{ping|ToxicPea}} attempted to implement {{parameter|noexpand}}  yes {{parameter|noexpand{{=}}yes}} to get the desired behaviour. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:41, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia ==

Thank you very much for all your support over the course of my transcribing of this book. I'm just finishing up extracting the images now before I get started on going through and verifying everything and correcting the last of the errors. One thing I couldn't figure out exactly is what I'm supposed to do with the front cover page. Should I extract the cover image and just use plain text for the title, or do you even need to transcribe the front cover? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 14:26, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: Extract. I think this is too complex to transcribe directly.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you, I think I figured it out.
::Sorry to bother you again so soon, but I've just encountered another issue [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|here]]. I had it in my head that the main point of adding all those anchor links was to allow for wikilinking between the pages in cases like this, but it seems to force an underscore in there. Is there another way to go about this? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 16:33, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::(Sorry for the intrusion) That was related to the way [[Module:Anchor]] implemented {{tl|anchor link}}. The real anchors (which are HTML ids) cannot include spaces, and so the spaces are always replaced by underscores. For the display of the link template, though, it makes more sense to replace the underscores by spaces, so I made it do that. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:45, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks a lot! I had a feeling there might be a solution like that. Much appreciated. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:49, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The color printer (1892).djvu/review]] ==

Is this page required ? (I have no idea what it is doing - it shows as orphaned.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:27, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
: It was a shorthand I was using during the transcrpiton.  Are you trying to clear unused pages, if so I suggest leaving userspace alone. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:29, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::Yes - but this isn't in userspace - in is in indexspace ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:46, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::: Unused shortcut, If orpahaned no need to keep it. as this was presumably subst.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:47, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

== Help in including special latin characters==
I have found some characters such as letters &quot;a&quot; and &quot;o&quot; with double dots below them together with tones above the letters as seen on [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Dictionary_of_the_Foochow_Dialect.pdf/31 this page]. I tried to find them from Latin extended word lists from the edit box and also Google search but can't find any of them. Apparently, [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]] is able to do that on this page [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:DFD_index&amp;action=history DFD Index] with the letter &quot;u&quot; but he is inactive for more than one year. Your help is very much appreciated, thank you. [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 04:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:I'm not sure how Inductiveload found them either.  Have you checked a Unicode charecter search ? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:42, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]], apparently the words can be entered by using a special software. I found[https://cdo.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B9%AB%E5%8A%A9:Ci%C5%8Fng-i%C3%B4ng_t%C4%95%CC%A4k this page] on Foochow Wikipedia in the section  &quot;平話字的輸入法&quot;. Will need some time to figure it out.[[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 11:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Normally your OS lets you enter characters by unicode codepoints. For example if you want ̤̆a, you can enter U+306, then U+324, then &quot;a&quot;. (codepoints of diacritical marks are listed at [[w:Combining Diacritical Marks]]). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], got it, thanks! [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 02:03, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

== Anchor links ==

Hello again - I'm back to finish validating the place-names book now, and there's another issue with the anchor links - If you go to an [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|an individual page]], the anchor links work just fine, but they don't work on the [[Place-Names of the Province of Nova Scotia/A|transclusion]]. I can see what's going on but I'm not sure if it can even be fixed. Am I missing something, or is this just a limitation of the module? Thanks! [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:05, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

: Not sure, ask at Scriptorum/Help [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 11:06, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks, I hadn't found that yet. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
==[[Page:The Zoologist, 4th series, vol 1 (1897).djvu/522]]==
I don’t know how to check for lint errors, so I’m not sure what the technical issue with this page is. I would assume it is owing to the tables at the top of the page, and not the few templates at the bottom. I would go about this by creating in-table template instances, which I can do at some later point if you would like. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:45, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

This was fixed in the CSS, but having two different table formats isn't good practice. The Lint eventually proved to be unrelated to the rendering! (also fixed.). Interesting alternate way to do leaders though, although I would suggest classing the table?  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:33, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
*I hadn’t actually looked at it—it looks like the tables use dotted lines to represent the dots (as opposed to ''dtpl''’s weird single-line wrapped-in table nonsense). I would switch everything to templates, but that’s just because I use templates more than tables for this purpose. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:21, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

==Page counter==
Sorry I think I've seen you put pagelists on my indexes a few times, I try to do it but keep hitting the same problem; I click to use the &quot;Page Counter Game&quot; or whatever it's called, it shows me an image I hit -, -, -, cover, -, -, title, then as soon as we're at Page 1-10 I hit &gt; to skip ahead, but then when I hit &quot;img&quot; at pg32 or whatever...it says that it's the next consecutive page number after title...what am I doing wrong here? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 13:19, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

'&lt;' ' &gt; '  Only changes the image you see.  It doesn't set the number up or advance the page that is being set.   BTW Consider slowing down a little.  There's a general consensus about not just saving recovered OCR into the Page namespace:  I appreciate you are marking as Not-Proofread, but some processing before saving is greatly appreicated by other contributors. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:57, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

::I ''think'' I typically am making improvements to the OCRed text even if only half the page, in part I can't keep track of all the templates you guys are using and such so I've started inserting the {{c and {{smallcaps and {{blackletter for example whenever needed - but I can't remember the method of some of the other stuff and I can't remember where I've seen you use it in the past. Is there some other way to make a pagelist other than manually loading 300 PAGE: files to view whether or not there's an image? I feel like there ''should'' be a way to just view a thumbnail gallery showing ~100 images at a time zoomed way out? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 17:25, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: There isn't that feature that I know of yet. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:29, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Orlando Furioso ==

I am consistently using the same syntax in the Notes as in the main body.  I am deliberately not using {{tl|ppoem}} in this eight-volume set, because it can't handle the long multi-page poetry.  I am formatting the Notes using the same syntax as elsewhere instead of mixing multiple methods. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:46, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: Ah okay, please revert. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:05, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Catchwords on Ruffhead's Statutes at Large ==

I've been marking up the catch words at the bottom of the page as:

{ {right|the} }

because that is what I saw on the finished pages for Ruffhead vol. 9.

I've just seen you've marked a page up with

{ {continues|the} }

Which way is standard? Is there a set of guidelines for Ruffhead anywhere?
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 18:46, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: There are  not guidelines as such. Feel free to write them.   I use continues if it's a continued paragraph. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:52, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::Just found that the discussion page has guidelines:
::[[Index talk:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu]]
::I'll add somethign to that. But should there be a dedicated page to agreed guidelines, and not just comments in a discussion?
::Thanks for yoru reply &amp; help. [[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:08, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Statutory Instruments ==

Do you know of a full list of all the Statutory Instruments? I've just had a colleague ask about an SI rescinded before the annual volume was published, as wasn't included in it. Nor is it listed in the [[Table_of_Government_Orders]] I linked to on IA.
	
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:05, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: I don't sorry.  Other than the compliled lists in the published volumes, the only defintive source I know of for temporary or local ones is legislation.gov.uk.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])

:the IA copy is 'limited preview' and the license is not OGL as this volume pre-dates it.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:39, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Last page ==

Could you please validate [[Page:Astrology (1904).pdf/351]] real quick? Thank you. ^^ [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 21:59, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

== Clearing duplicate IDs ==

Your changes are, in some cases, swapping one set of identical labeling for a different set of identical labeling, in other places, generating nonsense, and in some cases generating information that is flat out incorrect. I think it would be better to work with the community to come up with a better solution before proceeding with more changes.

This is a problem we may ''have'' to live with, because there are some volumes that have repeated page numbers. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:51, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

: As you objected, I'm reverting the attempted fixes. It is now on YOU to find a solution that actually solves the issue of course. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:01, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== Author:Zona Gale ==

Something has gone wrong with {{tl|IA}} causing problems that can be seen at [[Author:Zona Gale]].  So far, I have not been able to identify the specific cause.  &quot;Makeid&quot; was my best guess after checking several things, but a revert and purges have not solved the issue.  Can you spot what is causing the trouble? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:Nvm.  It was your edit to {{tl|IAl}}.  Problem fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:27, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:I'm going to review other edits I made around the same time.. Something HAS broken. Thank you.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:28, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Changing anchors ==

Is there a problem with [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Mrs_Beeton%27s_Book_of_Household_Management.djvu/1253&amp;curid=1988030&amp;diff=15019951&amp;oldid=7479246 this anchor]?  What is the problem?

And are you checking for (and changing) any and all pages that have this anchor as a target?  If not, then you are breaking anchors. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:20, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

: Definitely, It's part of the checks. And here in your linked example it's that I omitted to add the r in the inital transclude. I will however check for broken links on pages updated recently. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Treatise of the Covenant of Grace ==

Thanks for edits while I reminded myself about &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{nop}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; and inserted it at certain points where I had failed to do so earlier in the book.  However I create the individual pages in a text editor based on the EEBO-TCP text (checked with them for permission as far as I recall, or they told me I didn't need it - one or other; in any case it's not a direct copy but saves a lot of work).  In this particular page there will be complications of Greek text in the margin and perhaps identifying where it comes from.  As it's now late here in the UK I'm going to abandon ship for tonight, maybe come back in a few days time, health permitting.  I'm getting towards the end of the original text.  Let's hope I can get to the intended purpose, which is to create,  separately, a modern spelling (otherwise unaltered) edition, which may eventually get printed in book form as the original (composed of scanned and tidied images) has been since 2006.  Wikisource insists that the original one (that I've nearly finished) is done before the respelled one, which is regarded as annotated if I remember aright.[[User:PeterR2|PeterR2]] ([[User talk:PeterR2|talk]]) 23:53, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

== Confusing edit ==

Re: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:White_House_for_Sale_-_How_Princes,_Prime_Ministers,_and_Premiers_Paid_Off_President_Trump_-_Report.pdf/15&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=15055765 this], it seems like you added some CSS possibly for dark mode compatibility. I added the &quot;&lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt;&quot; background for this reason, but maybe I'm missing something. Can you elaborate on why you added this and what I'm maybe overlooking? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:16, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

: When you add a background:, you have to add color: as well.  Hence I used a codex token to provide the appropriate color. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:19, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::But &lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt; {{em text|is}} a color. How did you choose the colors you added? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:56, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I used what I felt was appropriate, and which was dark mode compatible. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:58, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/12]] ==

Thanks for adding the missing c/e tag - though shouldn't it be in the body not in the footer ? As the contents list ends there. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:31, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

== Correction of missing italic closures ==

Hi, I clearly have a blindspot in terms of closing italics, in those cases where it doesn't impact visually (e.g. at the end of lines). Could you point me at whatever tool it is you use to locate them? I chanced upon a reference to the following:{{pbr}}mw.loader.load( &quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint/r.js&amp;action=raw&amp;maxage=86400&amp;ctype=text/javascript&quot; );{{pbr}}which I hoped would do the job, but it doesn't seem to (it only seems to work on transclusions, and primarily objects to duplicate page ID's). Thanks, [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 17:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
: (If you'll excuse the intrusion) [[Special:LintErrors]] lists syntax errors like that; for unclosed tags it's [[Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag]] ([https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag?wpNamespaceRestrictions=&amp;titlecategorysearch=&amp;exactmatch=1&amp;tag=i&amp;template=all here] for unclosed italics). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:05, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

: Duplicate Page ID's can be ignored for now..   And I am pleased to say, most of the 'misssing end' tags are unpaired bold or italic markup. 333bot should also give a weekly list. the Lint Hint script does identify missing tags, you may have to sort them though, and even I will say it's not always perfect in finding them. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:31, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>322hiu5ljbuk7oqih178fexkxqy91c6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131987</id>
      <parentid>15131978</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:33:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Correction of missing italic closures */</comment>
      <origin>15131987</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="64850" sha1="c8nezp1p8jch9kvx30a0dfrx258dy89" xml:space="preserve">&lt;!--
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; width: 60%; margin: auto; padding: 1em; border: solid 2px gold; background-color: royalblue; color: white; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;letter-spacing: 14px;&quot;&gt;CONSIDERING LEAVING&lt;/span&gt;{{#if:|&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;{{{1}}}}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;
An attempt to get other contributor interested in resolving missing tages and Linter errors in Content namespace backfired. 
&lt;/div&gt;
--&gt;

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== Font-size:smaller ==

I'm a bit wrong, but I still don't recommend it. Got to thinking after I adjusted a few that it looked like it was working the same, but never see it used, so [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jonesey95#%22Smaller%22 I asked]. Sharing as an FYI. Apologies for my error. [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 01:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== weird style problem and more ==
I came here to ask what you think is going on with this page [[Page:Arabian Nights Entertainments (1728)-Vol. 6.djvu/1]].  It has no style, yet it is rendering as if it does.  

Then I read your message to consider leaving.  To me it means &quot;they win&quot; &quot;they have everything now&quot;.  

I think that users of your software should each have their own name and not this name.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 08:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
: &lt;s&gt;I haven't edited that page seemingly. Can you explain more cleanly what's going on?&lt;/s&gt;&lt;br&gt;What is the exact error you are seeing? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== 1 Stat. R. 50 ==

[[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu/96]]

Took a stab at it and removed the problematic status. I couldn't spot what made it problematic, so would appreciate your feedback on this one. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 16:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
: I can't recall,  Maybe I marked it problematic as an incomplete format, and forget to remove the status.  Keep going.  BTW if you want to standardise the formatting and make some notes on the talk page.  This volume's formatting is a little convoluted, and probably need someone to make it consistent across all pages. &lt;br&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:56, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:: If I had to guess, I think it was probably the footnotes within the footnotes. I have been going through all the prior pages to try and get used to what's already been done and touching up/standardizing across all pages, but I think this one was the first page I recall seeing footnoted footnotes. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 13:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Another thing: I've decided to include the untranslated text of the chapters in Latin and law-French in the template pages within the frame box, but I am wrapping those untranslated portions in noinclude tags (i.e., when the template is called, those untranslated portions will not render in the calling page). This way, they are at least typed up somewhere, and it's been proofread and is easy to access until we have actual pages to where we can place them on the other language wikis. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 04:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Check the equivalent pages at French and Latin Wikipedia, as I did an initial transcription of some of that text a while back. :) , By looking at those (and use of {{tl|iwpages}} and {tl|IwPageSection}} you might save some time.  I did this one transcription already.

Another note:  In building for mainspace:  On a longer acts the intention was to try and use the actual Short Title as the Work name if defined. The convention otherwise seems to be  &lt;Subject&gt; (taken from the The Chronologicial Table of The Statutes)&gt; &lt;year&gt;. Finding official short titles can be an involved process for early Statutes though.  

Elsewhere on Wikisource/Commons , there are scans of Statutes Of The Realm, which might assist Translation efforts. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:I know enough Latin and French that I can make passable attempts at directly translating them myself, but I'm not exactly sure where the translation I would produce should go. Would it be considered original research and thus need to be independenty published? I've got a little editing experience here, but in the main I guess I'm still kind of a noob. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 10:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Wikisource supports user translations of Non English works,  but they should be clearly marked as Trabnslated by Wikisource, and seperate from other transcription efforts. As mentioned some of the Non English in Ruffhead was translated in &quot;Statutes of The Realm&quot; , but if you want to attempt your own Law translation feel free, Don't use GoogleTranslate as what it produces isn't quite the samewhen tested with a short section where Ruffhead has both the origianl and English translation. Please note that the French is Law French not Modern French. Also some translation of early statutes aren't always literal translation (as some of the parrallel printing indciates.) The reason why the Non English wasn't included here was to do with Wikisource policy at the time the work was started.
: If you want to attempt translations, feel free, but bear in mind other works  on Law might have done so already. For some items (although less likely for repealed items) a semi-official translation might be on legislation.gov.uk BTW[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
: I would suggest initially doing the translation in you Userspace, and then ask how to possibly link them on the Scriptorum:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Any inklings you can share on why the class block template isn't working on [[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 4.djvu/109|this]] and the previous few pages? [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 20:47, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
{{ping|Foofighter20x}} - The styles will need to imported from another volume and put on the relevantpage, currently VOl4 has no Indexstyles defined apparently.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:38, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

Hello. May I ask what is the benefit of edits like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:World_Fiction_1922%E2%80%931923.djvu/579&amp;curid=4560724&amp;diff=14620053&amp;oldid=14336619 this]? -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

: A long term goal to simplify the running header code used across wikisource. Currently there are around 86,000 single content running headers that are preventing the simplification. If you think alternately Rh/1 can be replaced with left/right/center appropriately, I have no objections provided that it's done consistently across a work, which is what the focus of some recent editing efforts is. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Talk page watcher, just stopping by to '''endorse''' this simplification of the running header code used across Wikisource. It is a broadly good thing to do. [[User:BD2412|&lt;span style=&quot;background:lightgreen;color:inherit;&quot;&gt;''BD2412''&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 14:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

::: Won't be following this up just yet, (but you are welcome to review Rh/1 usage) I am running a check-back on my delinting efforts outside content namespace over the last 10 years or so. If you want to review my past delints as well feel free. Currently looking at Talk namepsace. :) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

== Indexes ==

The [[Special:LintErrors/obsolete-tag|remaining pages]] of Index are free of Obsolete tags, and linthint's green when I scan these pages after publishing my edits, but I'm unable to clear Wikisource's claim of an obsolete tag remaining. I've tried purging page, hard purging, null editing, and got no change. Is it a wait it out situation, or am I overlooking something? [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 14:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Zinnober9}} Not just you, same issue. Consider raising a Phabriactor ticket as it's a headscratcher for me as well. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

== Explanation for edit? ==

Hi there! I noticed you made a [[Special:Diff/14664794|couple]] [[Special:Diff/14664802|edits]] to my userpage — however, I don't see any difference in the page before and after. Can you clarify what those are about? Thanks! [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|Waldyrious}} The edits are to do with night-mode: If you set the background color, you alos have to set the text color. If the repair worked would shouldn't see any changes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::Ah, got it! Thank you :) [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== suggestion ==

change &quot;Apologies for the intteruption, but this was showing up on a list ofLints, missing style&quot;
to
&quot;Ignore this (I'm making a minor change to fix a list of missing style problems. sorry for the interuption&quot;

It took me a while to realise that I needed to do nothing.

cheers
[[User:Victuallers|Victuallers]] ([[User talk:Victuallers|talk]]) 14:48, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

== your assistance please... ==

You [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Geo_Swan&amp;oldid=951910035&amp;diff=960976114 left a note] on my user talk page on commons, with a link [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;offset=1730225&amp;exactmatch=1&amp;tag=i&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=829%0D%0A828%0D%0A711%0D%0A710%0D%0A115%0D%0A107%0D%0A106%0D%0A105%0D%0A103%0D%0A102%0D%0A101%0D%0A100%0D%0A15%0D%0A13%0D%0A14%0D%0A12%0D%0A11%0D%0A9%0D%0A8%0D%0A10%0D%0A7%0D%0A6%0D%0A1%0D%0A2%0D%0A3] here, which, unfortunately, wasn't helpful... 

I saw it started with [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag Lint errors: Missing end tag], and I started looking through the output on those pages, until I got to a page that listed some pages in user space I worked on.  I took a look at them, trying to figure out which tags were missing, without success.  Can you help me determine this?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 13:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

: {{ping|Geo Swan}} What's missing is for the most part italic and bold, which must be paired on a single line. I.e you typed &lt;nowiki&gt;'''&lt;/nowiki&gt; or &lt;nowiki&gt;''&lt;/nowiki&gt; at the start of a line, but forget to type the equivalent at the end of the line.  I was also asking if these were drafts you'd later migrated to scan backed Pages.  

I also use a script when editing pages - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint - it provides a button in the top of pages which when expanded gives a list of unpaired tags.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

:filtering the list even more - https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;exactmatch=&amp;tag=all&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=User%3AGeo+Swan&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=2  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:* Thanks for your heads-up, and for [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User:Geo_Swan/working/Summary_of_Evidence_memos/pg256&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14675722 this] example.  
:* What is ns104?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 17:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Page: namespace . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

== span and color ==

Where is the wiki documentation is &quot;color&quot; now required to be explicitly specified in a span tag? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

: You raise a reasonable point, I'm not sure the requirement that backgroound/background-color must now be accompanied by (foreground) color is adequately documented at Wikisource. It is however documented alongside the description of the relevant Lint Error in the documentation at Meta. Migration of FONT to span may alos have simmilar issues.  If you want me to start reverting every single coonversion I can do that, but I feel strongly it would create far more noise than it solves. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In relation to 'night-mode' - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/night-mode-unaware-background-color
:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In reltaion to FONT-&gt;SPAN , https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/obsolete-tag

== Finding dumb typos ==

How do you find errors like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Nella_Larson_-_Quicksand.pdf/301&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=14690241 this] so quickly? Do you somehow subscribe to [[Special:LintErrors]]? I'd like to reduce your overhead by at least quickly cleaning up my own mistakes. Thanks. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 21:26, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Koavf}} I just monitor to the list of LintErrors on a regular basis. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:28, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

== Need help ==

Please take a look here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Talk:War_of_the_Classes#Duplication_of_chapter_heading -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 16:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
: I think it's fixed now. -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 18:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

== Old transcriptions in User Space.. ==

I apologize for my late reply to [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJan.Kamenicek&amp;diff=14674500&amp;oldid=14673810 your request] regarding some old transcriptions in user space. The reason is I have been only rarely online recently due to being very busy in my offline life. However, I am not really sure what action is requested from me. If you think they should be deleted, it would probably be best to propose their deletion via the usual process. I am afraid I cannot just speedy a page from a user's space without any serious reason. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

: The message was that I was asking if you had time to rescue any of them as potential POTM or Monthy Challanges, duplicates could be courtesy blanking, but that might be contentious, so would have to go through the normal 'Proposed Deletion' process.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 10:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::I see. Not sure if I will have time for that, but you may try to write directly to the POTM or Monthly Challenges talk pages. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

== Scribners jpegs ==

I almost undid your undo.  I need a few minutes to think about it.  You correct me too quickly, I learn by my little bits of clean up.  {{diff|14749908|text=14:50 and 14:52|olddiff=14749906}}

You gave me less than what, less than 3 minutes to figure it out?

Your edits recently have been mostly bogus (meaning I did not make that mistake) and creepy.  I am already cringing when I see you have been on my work.  

But that was a good template.  Some one has to figure out how to separate this from the google spam, I think.

ShakespeareFan00 should always be very credible with anything css.

Okay so
#More time between my edit and yours.
#Always have credible edits.
#Detach from my google spam

And a large part of my life would be better, great even.  I learned a lot from you.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

: Okay so you are concerned that putting the suggested fix back in was done to quickly?  None of my recent edits were anything other than good faith attempts to make reapirs to resolve lint concerns and related issues.   Do you have a specific list of other edits you have concerns about? If you have getting stressed from having your efforts 'reapaired' than I strongly suggest taking a few days away from contributing. Are you using AI or a a transaltion tool because your comments above sound like a generated response BTW   [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

== Ppoem native rules ==

Would you mind spelling out what spec exactly you have in mind? Two things need to be defined: input, what the user enters, and output, what it should produce. {{sm|The input format at {{tl|ppoem/testcases}} could be criticized because it looks kinda like HTML, with the angle brackets, especially when you compare comment start: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--&lt;/nowiki&gt; and that: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;-&lt;/nowiki&gt; (maybe not a real problem).}} It's mostly about the output that I don't know what to do. If we want to be semantically correct, it's a kind of &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, taking some care to arrange the stanzas around it. This would mean that it would always separate stanzas in two, which semantically may be meh. If that isn't too bad, this'd be option #1 for me. There are plenty of ways to fake horizontal lines, e.g. a span with &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot; inline&gt;height:0px;border-top:1px solid black;display:inline-block;&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;, but that is surely bad semantic-wise. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:27, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Hmm.  Do you have an alternate syntax.. ?   We need to be able to do {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem though. 

Standard wikitest would be  ----  for a rule on a single line , but that doesn't allow for the additional paramaters {{tl|rule}} did.

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;
&lt;-:x&gt; Outputs the same as {{tlx|rule|4em}} , but appropriately centered within the ppoem outer container, using an HR, which breaks stanzas if encountered. Is it possible to have a means of adding addition params stop set style? or do he have something like &lt;-:width:height:style&gt; ?  hmm...

&lt;--:x&gt;  Was intended to be a double rule (essentially a style change). with the same params.
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
Note: The rules need to collapse, I.e each {{tag|hr|s}} must be it's own line, with appropriate spacing. And obviously rules need to be outside the 'stanzas' (The implied Stanza break you were favouring. 

[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:On input syntax, maybe the same thing replacing the angle brackets by something else? IDK. I wouldn't die on that hill anyhow
:The hr's are not line content, and so would not in fact be inside any lines, it would be outside lines and stanzas.
:On default params, I think {{tl|rule}}'s way of putting full height when nothing given is better, because 4em wasn't used any more than 3em, or 6em, or 5em (and also, if it's default it's easier to find, with &lt;-:100%&gt;(the way to get it if it's not default) maybe being not intuitive, unlike the ems).
:On multiple rules, it'd maybe be better, as very often when there are multiple they are not the same size, to allow putting something like &lt;code&gt;&lt;-:8em:4px&gt;&lt;-:6em:2px&gt;&lt;/code&gt; on a single line (in the input) for these two hrs to be right after each others in the output, with nothing in between. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:45, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Oh, also, on rule inside ppoem: this would get all of rule's functionalities, and it trying to parse where the p tag will autoclose, to try and make a cleaner stanza break around it, would be an absolute nightmare. Remaking a specialized parser is a pain, and it's likely to not understand code exactly the same way mw does (I've done it once, for a simplified parser), and if we try and rely on mediawiki parsing, we'll have to match the output to the input, which is also complicated.
:There are very few of these 600 invalid uses that should've been valid. There were the {{tl|rule}} ones, and {{tl|cr}} can hopefully be made inline-block (intend to look into it sometime soon), and apart from that, I don't remember any (the rest was things like FI, nesting ppoem, cblock, &amp;c). Once this is done, there'll be no use for {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem, and normally we don't have another template to replicate. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: I'm not set on the angle brackets,  If you can find something that is wasy to parse for, feel free to use it.  I support your idea width:height btw ;).. Do we have custom rules which set a style attrib on the {{tag|hr|s}} ?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:(width:height was your idea, not mine, I just shamelessly stole it from your answer.) Custom styles is just {{tlx|1=rule|2=...|3=style=...}}, I think. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: So we  would need a way to have the style in the syntax, or better would be the classing approach already supported for lines and stanzas...  ;)
::Oh. very good idea. So &lt;-:width:height:class1 class2 class3 ...&gt;, with classes separated by spaces, adding .ws-poem-[name]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:05, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Exactly . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])
::::And output, it would be an hr, with class ws-poem-rule and user-added classes, and with style height:what the user gave or 1px if they didn't give anything, and width:what they gave or 100%. (The ws-poem-rule class would permit work-scale styling, e.g. if all rules inside ppoems are in this book 4em or 6em or whatever. Will get at work in sandbox and show you end result when I'm done. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:12, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Well, I guess this is all made moot now, apart maybe from the use it would still have of better semantics (the rules not being line content)? I'd like your opinion on that. What do you think?
::::Again, I cannot tell you how sorry I am for dragging you into that mess, essentially for nothing. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:14, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

== The Night Born ==

Thanks for your edits there. I see now how fine block is supposed to work across pages. (I wonder if it is worth mentioning that on the template page). I don't see what nopf is doing - would you be so kind as to explain ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:The {{tl|nopf}} is there to stop the last line of the page becoming it's own paragraph. (Known glitch in Proofread page/Mediawiki [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 07:54, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

== fsn and (all)smallcaps ==

Last january, {{tl|fsn}} was changed by you to normalise not only italic, as was its purpose till then, but also smallcaps. This breaks some stuff, as up to 2024 it did not remove smallcaps. Moreover, this duplicates the purpose of {{tl|fvn}}. Do you agree that normalising smallcaps should be left to that template, and removed from {{tl|fsn}}? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:32, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

: Do what you think is appropriate, but remember to check usages. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

== In re Eng. Rep. ==

Just a heads up: since I reloaded the 1 ER base file with an assembled pdf of clearer and less-distorted scans from CommonLII (which is why I stopped editing for a few days: was figuring out how to use Python to grab all those files), the default OCR that Wikimedia is using to prefill the body block when loading an uncreated page has been producing ''worse'' quality OCR prefills.

''However'', above the page display window on the right, I've found that changing to the Google OCR in the &quot;Transcribe Text&quot; dropdown and then punching that button that prior to any editing works ''miracles.'' You probably already noticed/knew this, but in case you hadn't/didn't, I'd loathe myself if I didn't save you ''lots'' of editing time by not mentioning it. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 22:35, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

: I was aware of the Google OCR, it was my standard goto.  Thanks for the new scans..  If you can assemble a PDF for the volumes we don't have that would be very useful.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::Yep, that's very much on my radar. The catch in pulling the better scans from Common LII has been that I have to combine all the files in Acrobat Pro and then go through the compiled volume page by page to eliminate all the duplicate pages (i.e., where one case ends and the next begins on the same page, that page will be in each file, hence will be present twice in the assembled Acrobat binder; there's simply no way to automate that process in AAP). On top of that, I still have to find scans of the Eng. Rep. volumes proper that have been posted online so I can also include the front and back matter, which isn't available at Common LII. Still, now that I have the Python code working the way I want it, I've got it on my short term to-do list. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:03, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Always more work to do: Have started to put together the [[The_English_Reports|front page for the set]] and for each volume. I'm also trying to include corrections and date conversions as I go along (within tooltips; see [[The_English_Reports/Volume_1|here]] as to R v. Visc. Purbeck, in re its purported year of decision). --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 21:02, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: You might need to fork the template which was designed primarly for US cases, not British ones? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Sounds like a good idea, but I'm an American, so I'm not exactly sure what all info should be mandatory/required, and what else should be includable. I could always start with what's in [https://www.legalbluebook.com/bluebook/v21/tables/t2-foreign-jurisdictions/t2-43-united-kingdom Table 2.43 of The Bluebook], but a little specialized knowledge from a Brit would be beneficial before I'm so bold to start. Also, at least as far as the Eng. Rep. editors put in references to Mews Dig., I'd think including those snippets from Mews as quasi-headnote in the case page, as I did in [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]]. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 23:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: Generally, if it isn't the original scan, adding headnotes from another source, is an 'annotation' which is generally discouraged, also the headnotes source might not be under a compatible license, unlike the text in the scans. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 00:03, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
::I guess I should clarify what I mean by &quot;adding headnotes&quot;: I'm only thinking of putting that Mews material in the notes block of the header template at the top of the transcluded presentation pages (again, see [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]] toward the top in the gray). In support of that, I'll add that I think the only parts of the Eng. Rep. that weren't published before Jan. 1, 1930 are the two index volumes; if that's the case and they are still copyrighted (which I'm not sure they ever were), they'll be out of copyright in a year... Given that all those substantive volumes are public domain, their references to Mews necessarily implies that such Mews material is also public domain. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Question: another editor has come in and removed the page numbering markers I put in the index pages for vols. 76 and 77 (i.e., where it demarks where the different volumes of the contained editions, are, such as 1 Co., 2 Co., etc.). Is my inclusion of those frowned on? Figured I should ask someone with experience before I start a potential reversion fight. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 06:38, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Shouldn't be a problem. Often the page number removal isn't intended. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:02, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

== Front matter page numbers ==

I've noticed several recent books where you've set of the from matter page numbering with errors.  You seem to be assuming the title page is '''i''', but for the books you've set up, that isn't the case.  When there is a half-title, ''that's'' usually page '''i''' (except in cases where some arbitrary earlier page is the starting point). --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:11, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: Thanks, I'll take another look. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Can you list some specific examples, as the ones I've had another look at seem to do the front matter from the Half title? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::See for example [[Index:Rainbow Valley text.djvu]], where the Half-title is the start page, and there is a leaf for the Frontispiece inserted between pages ii and iii.  Plate-beating leaves are usually inserted after the printed pages are folded.  Or see [[Index:Red Harvest.pdf]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:38, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Already corrected. and I am finding some others as I check.  Thanks for the heads up, List anymore you find below :).  
:(Aside) A lot of the Duplicate Page-ID's seems to be front matter with duplicative ID's. The intent was (with checks) to replace some of these with 'roman' numerals from the works concerned? , For image plates I was considering amending them to use  &quot;(sp&lt;djvupage&gt;)&quot; or &quot;(fp&lt;adjacent pageid&gt;)&quot; depending on the work. What are your suggestions? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::Two issues to consider: (1) Our recommendations explicitly allow for named pages when the work in question does not have a clear numbering system for pages in the front matter. (2) Changing page numbers / naming can break page links, so it shouldn't happen unless it's absolutely necessary.
::Why &quot;sp&quot;?  And where was the change to image page naming discussed? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::: sp=Scanpage. I hadn't raised the issue on Scriptorum yet, so will not be changing existing numbering (other than the Half/Title confusion you pointed out.).  Something needs to be done about the 'linter noise' though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:07, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

==Quick question==
Hey ShakespeareFan00. On [[Index:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4, STORMS.pdf]], I noticed [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:Monthly_Weather_Review,_Volume_1,_Issue_4,_STORMS.pdf&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14784703 made an edit] changing a X to a C, and as I have seen this done by several editors before, I wanted to know why? I don't even know what the C or X stands for, so hopefully you can explain them as well for a newbie. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 21:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: It means someone checked the uploaded file was complete. Carry on proofreading. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:25, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

== Orphaned categories ==

Hi, these categories that you created have no parents and so are lost in the tree. Can you please review and determine their best position?
* [[:Category:Malformed identifer for numbered div]]
* [[:Category:Parameter3(Numbered Div)]]
Thanks, [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

== Pagelists ==

Thanks for adding pagelists to some of my recently added indexes. (I am still quite new at doing these.) 

Is there an easy way to get those lists ? Or do you have to go through the scans to see what is there ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:08, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

:You have to go through the scans, but an easy and fun way of doing it is at the top right. It's the &quot;wikisource page game&quot;, and it figures it out pretty well. 
:For some reason, when I upload a new document, the scan is not properly available. It always throws an error up, at least for a few hours. Then I remember a day later and come back to it, and @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has already done it for me. [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 06:48, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
::(This &quot;Invalid interval&quot; problem can be fixed by purging the file at commons.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:00, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:FPTI|FPTI]], @[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] - thanks guys. I'll have to have a go at that some time. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:46, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] How does one purge a file at commons? I'm having the same problem with [[Index:Demonology and Devil lore volume 1, conway.djvu]]. Please don't do it for me, I want to learn how to do it so I can stop being bothersome about it. Unless it's something that only a mod or privileged editor can do? — [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:16, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::[[C:Help:Purge|Never mind. Found it.]] [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Nah, it's easy. There's a &quot;purge clock&quot; (or perhaps &quot;UTC clock&quot;, I don't remember exactly) gadget. Once you activate it, you should get a blue clock in the top left menu. Click it to purge. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Squab Culture.djvu]] ==

I note that there is also [[Index:Squab culture (IA squabculture00wood).pdf]] which someone has started work on. Do you think we want both versions ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:02, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

: Prefer Djvu, I'm assuming same exact edition? Take it to Scriptorur or WS:PD? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:53, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

==''The Flowering of Racial Spirit''==
The one on p. ix was fine; the one on p. xi caused the poem in the footnote to render without the poem block formatting. Your new change (which brings p. xi’s formatting in line with p. ix’s) fixes that problem. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:01, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Template:copyvio ==

If this template needs a {{tl:copyvio/e}} at the end, shouldn't that be mentioned on the template page ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:37, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

: It's not generally noticed.  {{tl|copyvio/e}} only exists really to shut the linter up. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 01:39, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

== Too many edit conflicts ==
Too many edit conflicts!  It is not helpful to me.  These volumes sat here for several days, that you pick ''while I am working on it'' to also work on it is disturbing and creates more work for me.  

Tell me which volume you want to work on and I will upload them for you! Thank you in advanced for your understanding of my problems with this.  Truly, ''my problem'' and probably not yours.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:34, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

: Apologies, Did not mean to edit conflict with you.  You did it a much better proofread on the ToC concerned than I ever could. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:27, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Hanging indent]] ==

Could you explain what issues you were seeing with line breaks, and maybe add some cases to [[Template:Hanging indent/testcases]]? It's very inconvenient that {{tl|hanging indent}} doesn't respect standard wikimarkup paragraph breaks, so I'd like to get this sorted out. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 23:32, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

:Part of the issue is the templated DIV in a list which ends up producing:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext&gt;
*&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;
* ...

or 

:&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Mediawiki then wraps or list breaks..  In the latter case the indentation should be migrated to use the proper marginating templates. 

I'm not sure how to fix the underlying issue in the back-end. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

I appreciate you trying to solve these, but this particular template might need a complete rethink, unless someones prepared to hold the developers to actually implementing a solution to the wrapping problem.  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thank you for fixing anchors and format problems in texts processed by me! To be honest, anchor errors could be hard to find, so I'd like to ask how did you spot out them?[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] ([[User talk:廣九直通車|talk]]) 04:18, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:Sharp eyesight, common sense, and &quot;Duplicate ID&quot; lint reporting. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:59, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

== Getting started ==

Hi there! I just got started here on WikiSource, and I created [[Index:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf]] for a place-names book I often reference in my research. I noticed your name in the recent changes list, and you seem to know your way around here, so I just wanted to reach out to make sure this actually is within the scope of WikiSource like I think it is. I was also wondering if I maybe should have changed the title of the document on the Commons first, as I don't see many other index pages titled like the one I just made. Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 17:55, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: Looks okay from a technical perspective.  You have checked it's out of copyright? (Canada is 50 pma) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:04, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's a good question, navigating copyright has been a little confusing for me. This book was published in 1922, but I can't find any available information about when the author died. I guess this would mean copyright is uncertain, and therefore it can't be included? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:09, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:: Well IA seemed to think this was Okay, so you might need to dig a little deeper. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:17, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:::I wasn't the one who originally uploaded the commons file just for clarity, I figured because it was on there it was okay. But now that I got to looking, the copyright justification on IA is ''&quot;Evidence reported by Internet Archive biblio tool for item placenamesofprov00browrich on March 12, 2008: no visible notice of copyright; stated date is 1922.&quot;'' but Thomas. J Brown published ''The commercial printing industry : a leader in New Jersey's changing economy'' in 1984, so that means it's not out of copyright and shouldn't be on here or the Commons, is that right? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:21, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: I did some searchign and found - https://archives.novascotia.ca/vital-statistics/death/?ID=209042 from 1926 which seems to match with details in the work.  The 1984 entry is a potentially a different person. Someone publhsing in 1922 would have to be around 80 in 1984 (not impossible but highly unlikely, given the different location). I say it's okay until we get other infromation. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:30, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::Wow, I guess you're a lot better at Google-Fu than I am. I appreciate you going out of your way to find that. In that case, I guess I'm good to keep going. Thanks a lot. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:36, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

If you're [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index%3ADark_Hester.djvu&amp;diff=14917389&amp;oldid=14917096 using rh/1 with a class], then why wasn't the &quot;sp&quot; formatting placed in the style sheet as well? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:01, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

: If you know the CSS to do it, I'll clean up the existing contributions  I made :) &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=css inline-yes&gt;letter-spacing: &lt;value&gt;?&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:06, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::Use letter-spacing:0.15em; for the same as {{tl|sp}}; you can always examine the code used in the template. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:39, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

== USStatChapHead ==

When chapnum is 1 the template displays {{sc|Chapter I.}} instead of {{sc|Chap. I.}}. Could you add a way to disable that for instances in which we would legitimately need it to say {{sc|Chap. I.}}. See [[Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 6.djvu/283]] for example [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 14:25, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: {{ping|ToxicPea}} attempted to implement {{parameter|noexpand}}  yes {{parameter|noexpand{{=}}yes}} to get the desired behaviour. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:41, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia ==

Thank you very much for all your support over the course of my transcribing of this book. I'm just finishing up extracting the images now before I get started on going through and verifying everything and correcting the last of the errors. One thing I couldn't figure out exactly is what I'm supposed to do with the front cover page. Should I extract the cover image and just use plain text for the title, or do you even need to transcribe the front cover? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 14:26, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: Extract. I think this is too complex to transcribe directly.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you, I think I figured it out.
::Sorry to bother you again so soon, but I've just encountered another issue [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|here]]. I had it in my head that the main point of adding all those anchor links was to allow for wikilinking between the pages in cases like this, but it seems to force an underscore in there. Is there another way to go about this? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 16:33, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::(Sorry for the intrusion) That was related to the way [[Module:Anchor]] implemented {{tl|anchor link}}. The real anchors (which are HTML ids) cannot include spaces, and so the spaces are always replaced by underscores. For the display of the link template, though, it makes more sense to replace the underscores by spaces, so I made it do that. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:45, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks a lot! I had a feeling there might be a solution like that. Much appreciated. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:49, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The color printer (1892).djvu/review]] ==

Is this page required ? (I have no idea what it is doing - it shows as orphaned.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:27, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
: It was a shorthand I was using during the transcrpiton.  Are you trying to clear unused pages, if so I suggest leaving userspace alone. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:29, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::Yes - but this isn't in userspace - in is in indexspace ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:46, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::: Unused shortcut, If orpahaned no need to keep it. as this was presumably subst.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:47, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

== Help in including special latin characters==
I have found some characters such as letters &quot;a&quot; and &quot;o&quot; with double dots below them together with tones above the letters as seen on [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Dictionary_of_the_Foochow_Dialect.pdf/31 this page]. I tried to find them from Latin extended word lists from the edit box and also Google search but can't find any of them. Apparently, [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]] is able to do that on this page [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:DFD_index&amp;action=history DFD Index] with the letter &quot;u&quot; but he is inactive for more than one year. Your help is very much appreciated, thank you. [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 04:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:I'm not sure how Inductiveload found them either.  Have you checked a Unicode charecter search ? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:42, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]], apparently the words can be entered by using a special software. I found[https://cdo.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B9%AB%E5%8A%A9:Ci%C5%8Fng-i%C3%B4ng_t%C4%95%CC%A4k this page] on Foochow Wikipedia in the section  &quot;平話字的輸入法&quot;. Will need some time to figure it out.[[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 11:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Normally your OS lets you enter characters by unicode codepoints. For example if you want ̤̆a, you can enter U+306, then U+324, then &quot;a&quot;. (codepoints of diacritical marks are listed at [[w:Combining Diacritical Marks]]). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], got it, thanks! [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 02:03, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

== Anchor links ==

Hello again - I'm back to finish validating the place-names book now, and there's another issue with the anchor links - If you go to an [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|an individual page]], the anchor links work just fine, but they don't work on the [[Place-Names of the Province of Nova Scotia/A|transclusion]]. I can see what's going on but I'm not sure if it can even be fixed. Am I missing something, or is this just a limitation of the module? Thanks! [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:05, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

: Not sure, ask at Scriptorum/Help [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 11:06, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks, I hadn't found that yet. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
==[[Page:The Zoologist, 4th series, vol 1 (1897).djvu/522]]==
I don’t know how to check for lint errors, so I’m not sure what the technical issue with this page is. I would assume it is owing to the tables at the top of the page, and not the few templates at the bottom. I would go about this by creating in-table template instances, which I can do at some later point if you would like. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:45, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

This was fixed in the CSS, but having two different table formats isn't good practice. The Lint eventually proved to be unrelated to the rendering! (also fixed.). Interesting alternate way to do leaders though, although I would suggest classing the table?  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:33, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
*I hadn’t actually looked at it—it looks like the tables use dotted lines to represent the dots (as opposed to ''dtpl''’s weird single-line wrapped-in table nonsense). I would switch everything to templates, but that’s just because I use templates more than tables for this purpose. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:21, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

==Page counter==
Sorry I think I've seen you put pagelists on my indexes a few times, I try to do it but keep hitting the same problem; I click to use the &quot;Page Counter Game&quot; or whatever it's called, it shows me an image I hit -, -, -, cover, -, -, title, then as soon as we're at Page 1-10 I hit &gt; to skip ahead, but then when I hit &quot;img&quot; at pg32 or whatever...it says that it's the next consecutive page number after title...what am I doing wrong here? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 13:19, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

'&lt;' ' &gt; '  Only changes the image you see.  It doesn't set the number up or advance the page that is being set.   BTW Consider slowing down a little.  There's a general consensus about not just saving recovered OCR into the Page namespace:  I appreciate you are marking as Not-Proofread, but some processing before saving is greatly appreicated by other contributors. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:57, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

::I ''think'' I typically am making improvements to the OCRed text even if only half the page, in part I can't keep track of all the templates you guys are using and such so I've started inserting the {{c and {{smallcaps and {{blackletter for example whenever needed - but I can't remember the method of some of the other stuff and I can't remember where I've seen you use it in the past. Is there some other way to make a pagelist other than manually loading 300 PAGE: files to view whether or not there's an image? I feel like there ''should'' be a way to just view a thumbnail gallery showing ~100 images at a time zoomed way out? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 17:25, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: There isn't that feature that I know of yet. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:29, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Orlando Furioso ==

I am consistently using the same syntax in the Notes as in the main body.  I am deliberately not using {{tl|ppoem}} in this eight-volume set, because it can't handle the long multi-page poetry.  I am formatting the Notes using the same syntax as elsewhere instead of mixing multiple methods. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:46, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: Ah okay, please revert. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:05, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Catchwords on Ruffhead's Statutes at Large ==

I've been marking up the catch words at the bottom of the page as:

{ {right|the} }

because that is what I saw on the finished pages for Ruffhead vol. 9.

I've just seen you've marked a page up with

{ {continues|the} }

Which way is standard? Is there a set of guidelines for Ruffhead anywhere?
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 18:46, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: There are  not guidelines as such. Feel free to write them.   I use continues if it's a continued paragraph. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:52, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::Just found that the discussion page has guidelines:
::[[Index talk:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu]]
::I'll add somethign to that. But should there be a dedicated page to agreed guidelines, and not just comments in a discussion?
::Thanks for yoru reply &amp; help. [[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:08, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Statutory Instruments ==

Do you know of a full list of all the Statutory Instruments? I've just had a colleague ask about an SI rescinded before the annual volume was published, as wasn't included in it. Nor is it listed in the [[Table_of_Government_Orders]] I linked to on IA.
	
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:05, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: I don't sorry.  Other than the compliled lists in the published volumes, the only defintive source I know of for temporary or local ones is legislation.gov.uk.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])

:the IA copy is 'limited preview' and the license is not OGL as this volume pre-dates it.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:39, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Last page ==

Could you please validate [[Page:Astrology (1904).pdf/351]] real quick? Thank you. ^^ [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 21:59, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

== Clearing duplicate IDs ==

Your changes are, in some cases, swapping one set of identical labeling for a different set of identical labeling, in other places, generating nonsense, and in some cases generating information that is flat out incorrect. I think it would be better to work with the community to come up with a better solution before proceeding with more changes.

This is a problem we may ''have'' to live with, because there are some volumes that have repeated page numbers. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:51, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

: As you objected, I'm reverting the attempted fixes. It is now on YOU to find a solution that actually solves the issue of course. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:01, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== Author:Zona Gale ==

Something has gone wrong with {{tl|IA}} causing problems that can be seen at [[Author:Zona Gale]].  So far, I have not been able to identify the specific cause.  &quot;Makeid&quot; was my best guess after checking several things, but a revert and purges have not solved the issue.  Can you spot what is causing the trouble? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:Nvm.  It was your edit to {{tl|IAl}}.  Problem fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:27, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:I'm going to review other edits I made around the same time.. Something HAS broken. Thank you.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:28, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Changing anchors ==

Is there a problem with [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Mrs_Beeton%27s_Book_of_Household_Management.djvu/1253&amp;curid=1988030&amp;diff=15019951&amp;oldid=7479246 this anchor]?  What is the problem?

And are you checking for (and changing) any and all pages that have this anchor as a target?  If not, then you are breaking anchors. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:20, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

: Definitely, It's part of the checks. And here in your linked example it's that I omitted to add the r in the inital transclude. I will however check for broken links on pages updated recently. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Treatise of the Covenant of Grace ==

Thanks for edits while I reminded myself about &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{nop}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; and inserted it at certain points where I had failed to do so earlier in the book.  However I create the individual pages in a text editor based on the EEBO-TCP text (checked with them for permission as far as I recall, or they told me I didn't need it - one or other; in any case it's not a direct copy but saves a lot of work).  In this particular page there will be complications of Greek text in the margin and perhaps identifying where it comes from.  As it's now late here in the UK I'm going to abandon ship for tonight, maybe come back in a few days time, health permitting.  I'm getting towards the end of the original text.  Let's hope I can get to the intended purpose, which is to create,  separately, a modern spelling (otherwise unaltered) edition, which may eventually get printed in book form as the original (composed of scanned and tidied images) has been since 2006.  Wikisource insists that the original one (that I've nearly finished) is done before the respelled one, which is regarded as annotated if I remember aright.[[User:PeterR2|PeterR2]] ([[User talk:PeterR2|talk]]) 23:53, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

== Confusing edit ==

Re: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:White_House_for_Sale_-_How_Princes,_Prime_Ministers,_and_Premiers_Paid_Off_President_Trump_-_Report.pdf/15&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=15055765 this], it seems like you added some CSS possibly for dark mode compatibility. I added the &quot;&lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt;&quot; background for this reason, but maybe I'm missing something. Can you elaborate on why you added this and what I'm maybe overlooking? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:16, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

: When you add a background:, you have to add color: as well.  Hence I used a codex token to provide the appropriate color. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:19, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::But &lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt; {{em text|is}} a color. How did you choose the colors you added? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:56, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I used what I felt was appropriate, and which was dark mode compatible. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:58, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/12]] ==

Thanks for adding the missing c/e tag - though shouldn't it be in the body not in the footer ? As the contents list ends there. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:31, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

== Correction of missing italic closures ==

Hi, I clearly have a blindspot in terms of closing italics, in those cases where it doesn't impact visually (e.g. at the end of lines). Could you point me at whatever tool it is you use to locate them? I chanced upon a reference to the following:{{pbr}}mw.loader.load( &quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint/r.js&amp;action=raw&amp;maxage=86400&amp;ctype=text/javascript&quot; );{{pbr}}which I hoped would do the job, but it doesn't seem to (it only seems to work on transclusions, and primarily objects to duplicate page ID's). Thanks, [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 17:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
: (If you'll excuse the intrusion) [[Special:LintErrors]] lists syntax errors like that; for unclosed tags it's [[Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag]] ([https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag?wpNamespaceRestrictions=&amp;titlecategorysearch=&amp;exactmatch=1&amp;tag=i&amp;template=all here] for unclosed italics). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:05, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

: Duplicate Page ID's can be ignored for now..   And I am pleased to say, most of the 'misssing end' tags are unpaired bold or italic markup. 333bot should also give a weekly list. the Lint Hint script does identify missing tags, you may have to sort them though, and even I will say it's not always perfect in finding them. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:31, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
: Indeed, SF00 has a good point: 333Bot maintains weekly at [[User:333Bot/missing-end-tag report]] a report of unclosed stuff by index :D (I don't know how I forgot lol, I literally made that 8 days ago). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c8nezp1p8jch9kvx30a0dfrx258dy89</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132147</id>
      <parentid>15131987</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:32:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Correction of missing italic closures */ Reply</comment>
      <origin>15132147</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="65334" sha1="j8gvsccbhg8rrdkdkh2dhzm4vm21ujk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;!--
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; width: 60%; margin: auto; padding: 1em; border: solid 2px gold; background-color: royalblue; color: white; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;letter-spacing: 14px;&quot;&gt;CONSIDERING LEAVING&lt;/span&gt;{{#if:|&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;{{{1}}}}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;
An attempt to get other contributor interested in resolving missing tages and Linter errors in Content namespace backfired. 
&lt;/div&gt;
--&gt;

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[[User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Archive 4|IV]]
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== Font-size:smaller ==

I'm a bit wrong, but I still don't recommend it. Got to thinking after I adjusted a few that it looked like it was working the same, but never see it used, so [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jonesey95#%22Smaller%22 I asked]. Sharing as an FYI. Apologies for my error. [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 01:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== weird style problem and more ==
I came here to ask what you think is going on with this page [[Page:Arabian Nights Entertainments (1728)-Vol. 6.djvu/1]].  It has no style, yet it is rendering as if it does.  

Then I read your message to consider leaving.  To me it means &quot;they win&quot; &quot;they have everything now&quot;.  

I think that users of your software should each have their own name and not this name.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 08:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
: &lt;s&gt;I haven't edited that page seemingly. Can you explain more cleanly what's going on?&lt;/s&gt;&lt;br&gt;What is the exact error you are seeing? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== 1 Stat. R. 50 ==

[[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu/96]]

Took a stab at it and removed the problematic status. I couldn't spot what made it problematic, so would appreciate your feedback on this one. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 16:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
: I can't recall,  Maybe I marked it problematic as an incomplete format, and forget to remove the status.  Keep going.  BTW if you want to standardise the formatting and make some notes on the talk page.  This volume's formatting is a little convoluted, and probably need someone to make it consistent across all pages. &lt;br&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:56, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:: If I had to guess, I think it was probably the footnotes within the footnotes. I have been going through all the prior pages to try and get used to what's already been done and touching up/standardizing across all pages, but I think this one was the first page I recall seeing footnoted footnotes. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 13:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Another thing: I've decided to include the untranslated text of the chapters in Latin and law-French in the template pages within the frame box, but I am wrapping those untranslated portions in noinclude tags (i.e., when the template is called, those untranslated portions will not render in the calling page). This way, they are at least typed up somewhere, and it's been proofread and is easy to access until we have actual pages to where we can place them on the other language wikis. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 04:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Check the equivalent pages at French and Latin Wikipedia, as I did an initial transcription of some of that text a while back. :) , By looking at those (and use of {{tl|iwpages}} and {tl|IwPageSection}} you might save some time.  I did this one transcription already.

Another note:  In building for mainspace:  On a longer acts the intention was to try and use the actual Short Title as the Work name if defined. The convention otherwise seems to be  &lt;Subject&gt; (taken from the The Chronologicial Table of The Statutes)&gt; &lt;year&gt;. Finding official short titles can be an involved process for early Statutes though.  

Elsewhere on Wikisource/Commons , there are scans of Statutes Of The Realm, which might assist Translation efforts. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:I know enough Latin and French that I can make passable attempts at directly translating them myself, but I'm not exactly sure where the translation I would produce should go. Would it be considered original research and thus need to be independenty published? I've got a little editing experience here, but in the main I guess I'm still kind of a noob. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 10:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Wikisource supports user translations of Non English works,  but they should be clearly marked as Trabnslated by Wikisource, and seperate from other transcription efforts. As mentioned some of the Non English in Ruffhead was translated in &quot;Statutes of The Realm&quot; , but if you want to attempt your own Law translation feel free, Don't use GoogleTranslate as what it produces isn't quite the samewhen tested with a short section where Ruffhead has both the origianl and English translation. Please note that the French is Law French not Modern French. Also some translation of early statutes aren't always literal translation (as some of the parrallel printing indciates.) The reason why the Non English wasn't included here was to do with Wikisource policy at the time the work was started.
: If you want to attempt translations, feel free, but bear in mind other works  on Law might have done so already. For some items (although less likely for repealed items) a semi-official translation might be on legislation.gov.uk BTW[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
: I would suggest initially doing the translation in you Userspace, and then ask how to possibly link them on the Scriptorum:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Any inklings you can share on why the class block template isn't working on [[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 4.djvu/109|this]] and the previous few pages? [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 20:47, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
{{ping|Foofighter20x}} - The styles will need to imported from another volume and put on the relevantpage, currently VOl4 has no Indexstyles defined apparently.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:38, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

Hello. May I ask what is the benefit of edits like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:World_Fiction_1922%E2%80%931923.djvu/579&amp;curid=4560724&amp;diff=14620053&amp;oldid=14336619 this]? -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

: A long term goal to simplify the running header code used across wikisource. Currently there are around 86,000 single content running headers that are preventing the simplification. If you think alternately Rh/1 can be replaced with left/right/center appropriately, I have no objections provided that it's done consistently across a work, which is what the focus of some recent editing efforts is. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Talk page watcher, just stopping by to '''endorse''' this simplification of the running header code used across Wikisource. It is a broadly good thing to do. [[User:BD2412|&lt;span style=&quot;background:lightgreen;color:inherit;&quot;&gt;''BD2412''&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 14:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

::: Won't be following this up just yet, (but you are welcome to review Rh/1 usage) I am running a check-back on my delinting efforts outside content namespace over the last 10 years or so. If you want to review my past delints as well feel free. Currently looking at Talk namepsace. :) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

== Indexes ==

The [[Special:LintErrors/obsolete-tag|remaining pages]] of Index are free of Obsolete tags, and linthint's green when I scan these pages after publishing my edits, but I'm unable to clear Wikisource's claim of an obsolete tag remaining. I've tried purging page, hard purging, null editing, and got no change. Is it a wait it out situation, or am I overlooking something? [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 14:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Zinnober9}} Not just you, same issue. Consider raising a Phabriactor ticket as it's a headscratcher for me as well. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

== Explanation for edit? ==

Hi there! I noticed you made a [[Special:Diff/14664794|couple]] [[Special:Diff/14664802|edits]] to my userpage — however, I don't see any difference in the page before and after. Can you clarify what those are about? Thanks! [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|Waldyrious}} The edits are to do with night-mode: If you set the background color, you alos have to set the text color. If the repair worked would shouldn't see any changes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::Ah, got it! Thank you :) [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== suggestion ==

change &quot;Apologies for the intteruption, but this was showing up on a list ofLints, missing style&quot;
to
&quot;Ignore this (I'm making a minor change to fix a list of missing style problems. sorry for the interuption&quot;

It took me a while to realise that I needed to do nothing.

cheers
[[User:Victuallers|Victuallers]] ([[User talk:Victuallers|talk]]) 14:48, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

== your assistance please... ==

You [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Geo_Swan&amp;oldid=951910035&amp;diff=960976114 left a note] on my user talk page on commons, with a link [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;offset=1730225&amp;exactmatch=1&amp;tag=i&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=829%0D%0A828%0D%0A711%0D%0A710%0D%0A115%0D%0A107%0D%0A106%0D%0A105%0D%0A103%0D%0A102%0D%0A101%0D%0A100%0D%0A15%0D%0A13%0D%0A14%0D%0A12%0D%0A11%0D%0A9%0D%0A8%0D%0A10%0D%0A7%0D%0A6%0D%0A1%0D%0A2%0D%0A3] here, which, unfortunately, wasn't helpful... 

I saw it started with [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag Lint errors: Missing end tag], and I started looking through the output on those pages, until I got to a page that listed some pages in user space I worked on.  I took a look at them, trying to figure out which tags were missing, without success.  Can you help me determine this?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 13:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

: {{ping|Geo Swan}} What's missing is for the most part italic and bold, which must be paired on a single line. I.e you typed &lt;nowiki&gt;'''&lt;/nowiki&gt; or &lt;nowiki&gt;''&lt;/nowiki&gt; at the start of a line, but forget to type the equivalent at the end of the line.  I was also asking if these were drafts you'd later migrated to scan backed Pages.  

I also use a script when editing pages - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint - it provides a button in the top of pages which when expanded gives a list of unpaired tags.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

:filtering the list even more - https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;exactmatch=&amp;tag=all&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=User%3AGeo+Swan&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=2  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:* Thanks for your heads-up, and for [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User:Geo_Swan/working/Summary_of_Evidence_memos/pg256&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14675722 this] example.  
:* What is ns104?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 17:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Page: namespace . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

== span and color ==

Where is the wiki documentation is &quot;color&quot; now required to be explicitly specified in a span tag? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

: You raise a reasonable point, I'm not sure the requirement that backgroound/background-color must now be accompanied by (foreground) color is adequately documented at Wikisource. It is however documented alongside the description of the relevant Lint Error in the documentation at Meta. Migration of FONT to span may alos have simmilar issues.  If you want me to start reverting every single coonversion I can do that, but I feel strongly it would create far more noise than it solves. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In relation to 'night-mode' - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/night-mode-unaware-background-color
:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In reltaion to FONT-&gt;SPAN , https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/obsolete-tag

== Finding dumb typos ==

How do you find errors like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Nella_Larson_-_Quicksand.pdf/301&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=14690241 this] so quickly? Do you somehow subscribe to [[Special:LintErrors]]? I'd like to reduce your overhead by at least quickly cleaning up my own mistakes. Thanks. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 21:26, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Koavf}} I just monitor to the list of LintErrors on a regular basis. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:28, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

== Need help ==

Please take a look here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Talk:War_of_the_Classes#Duplication_of_chapter_heading -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 16:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
: I think it's fixed now. -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 18:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

== Old transcriptions in User Space.. ==

I apologize for my late reply to [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJan.Kamenicek&amp;diff=14674500&amp;oldid=14673810 your request] regarding some old transcriptions in user space. The reason is I have been only rarely online recently due to being very busy in my offline life. However, I am not really sure what action is requested from me. If you think they should be deleted, it would probably be best to propose their deletion via the usual process. I am afraid I cannot just speedy a page from a user's space without any serious reason. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

: The message was that I was asking if you had time to rescue any of them as potential POTM or Monthy Challanges, duplicates could be courtesy blanking, but that might be contentious, so would have to go through the normal 'Proposed Deletion' process.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 10:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::I see. Not sure if I will have time for that, but you may try to write directly to the POTM or Monthly Challenges talk pages. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

== Scribners jpegs ==

I almost undid your undo.  I need a few minutes to think about it.  You correct me too quickly, I learn by my little bits of clean up.  {{diff|14749908|text=14:50 and 14:52|olddiff=14749906}}

You gave me less than what, less than 3 minutes to figure it out?

Your edits recently have been mostly bogus (meaning I did not make that mistake) and creepy.  I am already cringing when I see you have been on my work.  

But that was a good template.  Some one has to figure out how to separate this from the google spam, I think.

ShakespeareFan00 should always be very credible with anything css.

Okay so
#More time between my edit and yours.
#Always have credible edits.
#Detach from my google spam

And a large part of my life would be better, great even.  I learned a lot from you.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

: Okay so you are concerned that putting the suggested fix back in was done to quickly?  None of my recent edits were anything other than good faith attempts to make reapirs to resolve lint concerns and related issues.   Do you have a specific list of other edits you have concerns about? If you have getting stressed from having your efforts 'reapaired' than I strongly suggest taking a few days away from contributing. Are you using AI or a a transaltion tool because your comments above sound like a generated response BTW   [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

== Ppoem native rules ==

Would you mind spelling out what spec exactly you have in mind? Two things need to be defined: input, what the user enters, and output, what it should produce. {{sm|The input format at {{tl|ppoem/testcases}} could be criticized because it looks kinda like HTML, with the angle brackets, especially when you compare comment start: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--&lt;/nowiki&gt; and that: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;-&lt;/nowiki&gt; (maybe not a real problem).}} It's mostly about the output that I don't know what to do. If we want to be semantically correct, it's a kind of &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, taking some care to arrange the stanzas around it. This would mean that it would always separate stanzas in two, which semantically may be meh. If that isn't too bad, this'd be option #1 for me. There are plenty of ways to fake horizontal lines, e.g. a span with &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot; inline&gt;height:0px;border-top:1px solid black;display:inline-block;&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;, but that is surely bad semantic-wise. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:27, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Hmm.  Do you have an alternate syntax.. ?   We need to be able to do {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem though. 

Standard wikitest would be  ----  for a rule on a single line , but that doesn't allow for the additional paramaters {{tl|rule}} did.

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;
&lt;-:x&gt; Outputs the same as {{tlx|rule|4em}} , but appropriately centered within the ppoem outer container, using an HR, which breaks stanzas if encountered. Is it possible to have a means of adding addition params stop set style? or do he have something like &lt;-:width:height:style&gt; ?  hmm...

&lt;--:x&gt;  Was intended to be a double rule (essentially a style change). with the same params.
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
Note: The rules need to collapse, I.e each {{tag|hr|s}} must be it's own line, with appropriate spacing. And obviously rules need to be outside the 'stanzas' (The implied Stanza break you were favouring. 

[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:On input syntax, maybe the same thing replacing the angle brackets by something else? IDK. I wouldn't die on that hill anyhow
:The hr's are not line content, and so would not in fact be inside any lines, it would be outside lines and stanzas.
:On default params, I think {{tl|rule}}'s way of putting full height when nothing given is better, because 4em wasn't used any more than 3em, or 6em, or 5em (and also, if it's default it's easier to find, with &lt;-:100%&gt;(the way to get it if it's not default) maybe being not intuitive, unlike the ems).
:On multiple rules, it'd maybe be better, as very often when there are multiple they are not the same size, to allow putting something like &lt;code&gt;&lt;-:8em:4px&gt;&lt;-:6em:2px&gt;&lt;/code&gt; on a single line (in the input) for these two hrs to be right after each others in the output, with nothing in between. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:45, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Oh, also, on rule inside ppoem: this would get all of rule's functionalities, and it trying to parse where the p tag will autoclose, to try and make a cleaner stanza break around it, would be an absolute nightmare. Remaking a specialized parser is a pain, and it's likely to not understand code exactly the same way mw does (I've done it once, for a simplified parser), and if we try and rely on mediawiki parsing, we'll have to match the output to the input, which is also complicated.
:There are very few of these 600 invalid uses that should've been valid. There were the {{tl|rule}} ones, and {{tl|cr}} can hopefully be made inline-block (intend to look into it sometime soon), and apart from that, I don't remember any (the rest was things like FI, nesting ppoem, cblock, &amp;c). Once this is done, there'll be no use for {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem, and normally we don't have another template to replicate. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: I'm not set on the angle brackets,  If you can find something that is wasy to parse for, feel free to use it.  I support your idea width:height btw ;).. Do we have custom rules which set a style attrib on the {{tag|hr|s}} ?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:(width:height was your idea, not mine, I just shamelessly stole it from your answer.) Custom styles is just {{tlx|1=rule|2=...|3=style=...}}, I think. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: So we  would need a way to have the style in the syntax, or better would be the classing approach already supported for lines and stanzas...  ;)
::Oh. very good idea. So &lt;-:width:height:class1 class2 class3 ...&gt;, with classes separated by spaces, adding .ws-poem-[name]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:05, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Exactly . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])
::::And output, it would be an hr, with class ws-poem-rule and user-added classes, and with style height:what the user gave or 1px if they didn't give anything, and width:what they gave or 100%. (The ws-poem-rule class would permit work-scale styling, e.g. if all rules inside ppoems are in this book 4em or 6em or whatever. Will get at work in sandbox and show you end result when I'm done. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:12, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Well, I guess this is all made moot now, apart maybe from the use it would still have of better semantics (the rules not being line content)? I'd like your opinion on that. What do you think?
::::Again, I cannot tell you how sorry I am for dragging you into that mess, essentially for nothing. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:14, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

== The Night Born ==

Thanks for your edits there. I see now how fine block is supposed to work across pages. (I wonder if it is worth mentioning that on the template page). I don't see what nopf is doing - would you be so kind as to explain ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:The {{tl|nopf}} is there to stop the last line of the page becoming it's own paragraph. (Known glitch in Proofread page/Mediawiki [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 07:54, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

== fsn and (all)smallcaps ==

Last january, {{tl|fsn}} was changed by you to normalise not only italic, as was its purpose till then, but also smallcaps. This breaks some stuff, as up to 2024 it did not remove smallcaps. Moreover, this duplicates the purpose of {{tl|fvn}}. Do you agree that normalising smallcaps should be left to that template, and removed from {{tl|fsn}}? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:32, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

: Do what you think is appropriate, but remember to check usages. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

== In re Eng. Rep. ==

Just a heads up: since I reloaded the 1 ER base file with an assembled pdf of clearer and less-distorted scans from CommonLII (which is why I stopped editing for a few days: was figuring out how to use Python to grab all those files), the default OCR that Wikimedia is using to prefill the body block when loading an uncreated page has been producing ''worse'' quality OCR prefills.

''However'', above the page display window on the right, I've found that changing to the Google OCR in the &quot;Transcribe Text&quot; dropdown and then punching that button that prior to any editing works ''miracles.'' You probably already noticed/knew this, but in case you hadn't/didn't, I'd loathe myself if I didn't save you ''lots'' of editing time by not mentioning it. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 22:35, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

: I was aware of the Google OCR, it was my standard goto.  Thanks for the new scans..  If you can assemble a PDF for the volumes we don't have that would be very useful.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::Yep, that's very much on my radar. The catch in pulling the better scans from Common LII has been that I have to combine all the files in Acrobat Pro and then go through the compiled volume page by page to eliminate all the duplicate pages (i.e., where one case ends and the next begins on the same page, that page will be in each file, hence will be present twice in the assembled Acrobat binder; there's simply no way to automate that process in AAP). On top of that, I still have to find scans of the Eng. Rep. volumes proper that have been posted online so I can also include the front and back matter, which isn't available at Common LII. Still, now that I have the Python code working the way I want it, I've got it on my short term to-do list. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:03, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Always more work to do: Have started to put together the [[The_English_Reports|front page for the set]] and for each volume. I'm also trying to include corrections and date conversions as I go along (within tooltips; see [[The_English_Reports/Volume_1|here]] as to R v. Visc. Purbeck, in re its purported year of decision). --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 21:02, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: You might need to fork the template which was designed primarly for US cases, not British ones? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Sounds like a good idea, but I'm an American, so I'm not exactly sure what all info should be mandatory/required, and what else should be includable. I could always start with what's in [https://www.legalbluebook.com/bluebook/v21/tables/t2-foreign-jurisdictions/t2-43-united-kingdom Table 2.43 of The Bluebook], but a little specialized knowledge from a Brit would be beneficial before I'm so bold to start. Also, at least as far as the Eng. Rep. editors put in references to Mews Dig., I'd think including those snippets from Mews as quasi-headnote in the case page, as I did in [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]]. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 23:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: Generally, if it isn't the original scan, adding headnotes from another source, is an 'annotation' which is generally discouraged, also the headnotes source might not be under a compatible license, unlike the text in the scans. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 00:03, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
::I guess I should clarify what I mean by &quot;adding headnotes&quot;: I'm only thinking of putting that Mews material in the notes block of the header template at the top of the transcluded presentation pages (again, see [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]] toward the top in the gray). In support of that, I'll add that I think the only parts of the Eng. Rep. that weren't published before Jan. 1, 1930 are the two index volumes; if that's the case and they are still copyrighted (which I'm not sure they ever were), they'll be out of copyright in a year... Given that all those substantive volumes are public domain, their references to Mews necessarily implies that such Mews material is also public domain. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Question: another editor has come in and removed the page numbering markers I put in the index pages for vols. 76 and 77 (i.e., where it demarks where the different volumes of the contained editions, are, such as 1 Co., 2 Co., etc.). Is my inclusion of those frowned on? Figured I should ask someone with experience before I start a potential reversion fight. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 06:38, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Shouldn't be a problem. Often the page number removal isn't intended. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:02, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

== Front matter page numbers ==

I've noticed several recent books where you've set of the from matter page numbering with errors.  You seem to be assuming the title page is '''i''', but for the books you've set up, that isn't the case.  When there is a half-title, ''that's'' usually page '''i''' (except in cases where some arbitrary earlier page is the starting point). --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:11, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: Thanks, I'll take another look. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Can you list some specific examples, as the ones I've had another look at seem to do the front matter from the Half title? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::See for example [[Index:Rainbow Valley text.djvu]], where the Half-title is the start page, and there is a leaf for the Frontispiece inserted between pages ii and iii.  Plate-beating leaves are usually inserted after the printed pages are folded.  Or see [[Index:Red Harvest.pdf]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:38, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Already corrected. and I am finding some others as I check.  Thanks for the heads up, List anymore you find below :).  
:(Aside) A lot of the Duplicate Page-ID's seems to be front matter with duplicative ID's. The intent was (with checks) to replace some of these with 'roman' numerals from the works concerned? , For image plates I was considering amending them to use  &quot;(sp&lt;djvupage&gt;)&quot; or &quot;(fp&lt;adjacent pageid&gt;)&quot; depending on the work. What are your suggestions? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::Two issues to consider: (1) Our recommendations explicitly allow for named pages when the work in question does not have a clear numbering system for pages in the front matter. (2) Changing page numbers / naming can break page links, so it shouldn't happen unless it's absolutely necessary.
::Why &quot;sp&quot;?  And where was the change to image page naming discussed? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::: sp=Scanpage. I hadn't raised the issue on Scriptorum yet, so will not be changing existing numbering (other than the Half/Title confusion you pointed out.).  Something needs to be done about the 'linter noise' though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:07, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

==Quick question==
Hey ShakespeareFan00. On [[Index:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4, STORMS.pdf]], I noticed [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:Monthly_Weather_Review,_Volume_1,_Issue_4,_STORMS.pdf&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14784703 made an edit] changing a X to a C, and as I have seen this done by several editors before, I wanted to know why? I don't even know what the C or X stands for, so hopefully you can explain them as well for a newbie. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 21:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: It means someone checked the uploaded file was complete. Carry on proofreading. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:25, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

== Orphaned categories ==

Hi, these categories that you created have no parents and so are lost in the tree. Can you please review and determine their best position?
* [[:Category:Malformed identifer for numbered div]]
* [[:Category:Parameter3(Numbered Div)]]
Thanks, [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

== Pagelists ==

Thanks for adding pagelists to some of my recently added indexes. (I am still quite new at doing these.) 

Is there an easy way to get those lists ? Or do you have to go through the scans to see what is there ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:08, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

:You have to go through the scans, but an easy and fun way of doing it is at the top right. It's the &quot;wikisource page game&quot;, and it figures it out pretty well. 
:For some reason, when I upload a new document, the scan is not properly available. It always throws an error up, at least for a few hours. Then I remember a day later and come back to it, and @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has already done it for me. [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 06:48, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
::(This &quot;Invalid interval&quot; problem can be fixed by purging the file at commons.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:00, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:FPTI|FPTI]], @[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] - thanks guys. I'll have to have a go at that some time. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:46, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] How does one purge a file at commons? I'm having the same problem with [[Index:Demonology and Devil lore volume 1, conway.djvu]]. Please don't do it for me, I want to learn how to do it so I can stop being bothersome about it. Unless it's something that only a mod or privileged editor can do? — [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:16, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::[[C:Help:Purge|Never mind. Found it.]] [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Nah, it's easy. There's a &quot;purge clock&quot; (or perhaps &quot;UTC clock&quot;, I don't remember exactly) gadget. Once you activate it, you should get a blue clock in the top left menu. Click it to purge. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Squab Culture.djvu]] ==

I note that there is also [[Index:Squab culture (IA squabculture00wood).pdf]] which someone has started work on. Do you think we want both versions ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:02, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

: Prefer Djvu, I'm assuming same exact edition? Take it to Scriptorur or WS:PD? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:53, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

==''The Flowering of Racial Spirit''==
The one on p. ix was fine; the one on p. xi caused the poem in the footnote to render without the poem block formatting. Your new change (which brings p. xi’s formatting in line with p. ix’s) fixes that problem. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:01, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Template:copyvio ==

If this template needs a {{tl:copyvio/e}} at the end, shouldn't that be mentioned on the template page ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:37, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

: It's not generally noticed.  {{tl|copyvio/e}} only exists really to shut the linter up. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 01:39, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

== Too many edit conflicts ==
Too many edit conflicts!  It is not helpful to me.  These volumes sat here for several days, that you pick ''while I am working on it'' to also work on it is disturbing and creates more work for me.  

Tell me which volume you want to work on and I will upload them for you! Thank you in advanced for your understanding of my problems with this.  Truly, ''my problem'' and probably not yours.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:34, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

: Apologies, Did not mean to edit conflict with you.  You did it a much better proofread on the ToC concerned than I ever could. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:27, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Hanging indent]] ==

Could you explain what issues you were seeing with line breaks, and maybe add some cases to [[Template:Hanging indent/testcases]]? It's very inconvenient that {{tl|hanging indent}} doesn't respect standard wikimarkup paragraph breaks, so I'd like to get this sorted out. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 23:32, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

:Part of the issue is the templated DIV in a list which ends up producing:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext&gt;
*&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;
* ...

or 

:&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Mediawiki then wraps or list breaks..  In the latter case the indentation should be migrated to use the proper marginating templates. 

I'm not sure how to fix the underlying issue in the back-end. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

I appreciate you trying to solve these, but this particular template might need a complete rethink, unless someones prepared to hold the developers to actually implementing a solution to the wrapping problem.  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thank you for fixing anchors and format problems in texts processed by me! To be honest, anchor errors could be hard to find, so I'd like to ask how did you spot out them?[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] ([[User talk:廣九直通車|talk]]) 04:18, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:Sharp eyesight, common sense, and &quot;Duplicate ID&quot; lint reporting. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:59, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

== Getting started ==

Hi there! I just got started here on WikiSource, and I created [[Index:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf]] for a place-names book I often reference in my research. I noticed your name in the recent changes list, and you seem to know your way around here, so I just wanted to reach out to make sure this actually is within the scope of WikiSource like I think it is. I was also wondering if I maybe should have changed the title of the document on the Commons first, as I don't see many other index pages titled like the one I just made. Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 17:55, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: Looks okay from a technical perspective.  You have checked it's out of copyright? (Canada is 50 pma) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:04, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's a good question, navigating copyright has been a little confusing for me. This book was published in 1922, but I can't find any available information about when the author died. I guess this would mean copyright is uncertain, and therefore it can't be included? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:09, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:: Well IA seemed to think this was Okay, so you might need to dig a little deeper. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:17, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:::I wasn't the one who originally uploaded the commons file just for clarity, I figured because it was on there it was okay. But now that I got to looking, the copyright justification on IA is ''&quot;Evidence reported by Internet Archive biblio tool for item placenamesofprov00browrich on March 12, 2008: no visible notice of copyright; stated date is 1922.&quot;'' but Thomas. J Brown published ''The commercial printing industry : a leader in New Jersey's changing economy'' in 1984, so that means it's not out of copyright and shouldn't be on here or the Commons, is that right? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:21, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: I did some searchign and found - https://archives.novascotia.ca/vital-statistics/death/?ID=209042 from 1926 which seems to match with details in the work.  The 1984 entry is a potentially a different person. Someone publhsing in 1922 would have to be around 80 in 1984 (not impossible but highly unlikely, given the different location). I say it's okay until we get other infromation. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:30, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::Wow, I guess you're a lot better at Google-Fu than I am. I appreciate you going out of your way to find that. In that case, I guess I'm good to keep going. Thanks a lot. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:36, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

If you're [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index%3ADark_Hester.djvu&amp;diff=14917389&amp;oldid=14917096 using rh/1 with a class], then why wasn't the &quot;sp&quot; formatting placed in the style sheet as well? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:01, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

: If you know the CSS to do it, I'll clean up the existing contributions  I made :) &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=css inline-yes&gt;letter-spacing: &lt;value&gt;?&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:06, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::Use letter-spacing:0.15em; for the same as {{tl|sp}}; you can always examine the code used in the template. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:39, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

== USStatChapHead ==

When chapnum is 1 the template displays {{sc|Chapter I.}} instead of {{sc|Chap. I.}}. Could you add a way to disable that for instances in which we would legitimately need it to say {{sc|Chap. I.}}. See [[Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 6.djvu/283]] for example [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 14:25, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: {{ping|ToxicPea}} attempted to implement {{parameter|noexpand}}  yes {{parameter|noexpand{{=}}yes}} to get the desired behaviour. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:41, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia ==

Thank you very much for all your support over the course of my transcribing of this book. I'm just finishing up extracting the images now before I get started on going through and verifying everything and correcting the last of the errors. One thing I couldn't figure out exactly is what I'm supposed to do with the front cover page. Should I extract the cover image and just use plain text for the title, or do you even need to transcribe the front cover? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 14:26, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: Extract. I think this is too complex to transcribe directly.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you, I think I figured it out.
::Sorry to bother you again so soon, but I've just encountered another issue [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|here]]. I had it in my head that the main point of adding all those anchor links was to allow for wikilinking between the pages in cases like this, but it seems to force an underscore in there. Is there another way to go about this? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 16:33, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::(Sorry for the intrusion) That was related to the way [[Module:Anchor]] implemented {{tl|anchor link}}. The real anchors (which are HTML ids) cannot include spaces, and so the spaces are always replaced by underscores. For the display of the link template, though, it makes more sense to replace the underscores by spaces, so I made it do that. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:45, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks a lot! I had a feeling there might be a solution like that. Much appreciated. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:49, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The color printer (1892).djvu/review]] ==

Is this page required ? (I have no idea what it is doing - it shows as orphaned.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:27, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
: It was a shorthand I was using during the transcrpiton.  Are you trying to clear unused pages, if so I suggest leaving userspace alone. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:29, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::Yes - but this isn't in userspace - in is in indexspace ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:46, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::: Unused shortcut, If orpahaned no need to keep it. as this was presumably subst.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:47, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

== Help in including special latin characters==
I have found some characters such as letters &quot;a&quot; and &quot;o&quot; with double dots below them together with tones above the letters as seen on [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Dictionary_of_the_Foochow_Dialect.pdf/31 this page]. I tried to find them from Latin extended word lists from the edit box and also Google search but can't find any of them. Apparently, [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]] is able to do that on this page [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:DFD_index&amp;action=history DFD Index] with the letter &quot;u&quot; but he is inactive for more than one year. Your help is very much appreciated, thank you. [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 04:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:I'm not sure how Inductiveload found them either.  Have you checked a Unicode charecter search ? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:42, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]], apparently the words can be entered by using a special software. I found[https://cdo.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B9%AB%E5%8A%A9:Ci%C5%8Fng-i%C3%B4ng_t%C4%95%CC%A4k this page] on Foochow Wikipedia in the section  &quot;平話字的輸入法&quot;. Will need some time to figure it out.[[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 11:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Normally your OS lets you enter characters by unicode codepoints. For example if you want ̤̆a, you can enter U+306, then U+324, then &quot;a&quot;. (codepoints of diacritical marks are listed at [[w:Combining Diacritical Marks]]). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], got it, thanks! [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 02:03, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

== Anchor links ==

Hello again - I'm back to finish validating the place-names book now, and there's another issue with the anchor links - If you go to an [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|an individual page]], the anchor links work just fine, but they don't work on the [[Place-Names of the Province of Nova Scotia/A|transclusion]]. I can see what's going on but I'm not sure if it can even be fixed. Am I missing something, or is this just a limitation of the module? Thanks! [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:05, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

: Not sure, ask at Scriptorum/Help [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 11:06, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks, I hadn't found that yet. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
==[[Page:The Zoologist, 4th series, vol 1 (1897).djvu/522]]==
I don’t know how to check for lint errors, so I’m not sure what the technical issue with this page is. I would assume it is owing to the tables at the top of the page, and not the few templates at the bottom. I would go about this by creating in-table template instances, which I can do at some later point if you would like. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:45, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

This was fixed in the CSS, but having two different table formats isn't good practice. The Lint eventually proved to be unrelated to the rendering! (also fixed.). Interesting alternate way to do leaders though, although I would suggest classing the table?  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:33, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
*I hadn’t actually looked at it—it looks like the tables use dotted lines to represent the dots (as opposed to ''dtpl''’s weird single-line wrapped-in table nonsense). I would switch everything to templates, but that’s just because I use templates more than tables for this purpose. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:21, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

==Page counter==
Sorry I think I've seen you put pagelists on my indexes a few times, I try to do it but keep hitting the same problem; I click to use the &quot;Page Counter Game&quot; or whatever it's called, it shows me an image I hit -, -, -, cover, -, -, title, then as soon as we're at Page 1-10 I hit &gt; to skip ahead, but then when I hit &quot;img&quot; at pg32 or whatever...it says that it's the next consecutive page number after title...what am I doing wrong here? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 13:19, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

'&lt;' ' &gt; '  Only changes the image you see.  It doesn't set the number up or advance the page that is being set.   BTW Consider slowing down a little.  There's a general consensus about not just saving recovered OCR into the Page namespace:  I appreciate you are marking as Not-Proofread, but some processing before saving is greatly appreicated by other contributors. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:57, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

::I ''think'' I typically am making improvements to the OCRed text even if only half the page, in part I can't keep track of all the templates you guys are using and such so I've started inserting the {{c and {{smallcaps and {{blackletter for example whenever needed - but I can't remember the method of some of the other stuff and I can't remember where I've seen you use it in the past. Is there some other way to make a pagelist other than manually loading 300 PAGE: files to view whether or not there's an image? I feel like there ''should'' be a way to just view a thumbnail gallery showing ~100 images at a time zoomed way out? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 17:25, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: There isn't that feature that I know of yet. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:29, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Orlando Furioso ==

I am consistently using the same syntax in the Notes as in the main body.  I am deliberately not using {{tl|ppoem}} in this eight-volume set, because it can't handle the long multi-page poetry.  I am formatting the Notes using the same syntax as elsewhere instead of mixing multiple methods. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:46, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: Ah okay, please revert. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:05, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Catchwords on Ruffhead's Statutes at Large ==

I've been marking up the catch words at the bottom of the page as:

{ {right|the} }

because that is what I saw on the finished pages for Ruffhead vol. 9.

I've just seen you've marked a page up with

{ {continues|the} }

Which way is standard? Is there a set of guidelines for Ruffhead anywhere?
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 18:46, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: There are  not guidelines as such. Feel free to write them.   I use continues if it's a continued paragraph. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:52, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::Just found that the discussion page has guidelines:
::[[Index talk:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu]]
::I'll add somethign to that. But should there be a dedicated page to agreed guidelines, and not just comments in a discussion?
::Thanks for yoru reply &amp; help. [[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:08, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Statutory Instruments ==

Do you know of a full list of all the Statutory Instruments? I've just had a colleague ask about an SI rescinded before the annual volume was published, as wasn't included in it. Nor is it listed in the [[Table_of_Government_Orders]] I linked to on IA.
	
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:05, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: I don't sorry.  Other than the compliled lists in the published volumes, the only defintive source I know of for temporary or local ones is legislation.gov.uk.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])

:the IA copy is 'limited preview' and the license is not OGL as this volume pre-dates it.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:39, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Last page ==

Could you please validate [[Page:Astrology (1904).pdf/351]] real quick? Thank you. ^^ [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 21:59, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

== Clearing duplicate IDs ==

Your changes are, in some cases, swapping one set of identical labeling for a different set of identical labeling, in other places, generating nonsense, and in some cases generating information that is flat out incorrect. I think it would be better to work with the community to come up with a better solution before proceeding with more changes.

This is a problem we may ''have'' to live with, because there are some volumes that have repeated page numbers. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:51, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

: As you objected, I'm reverting the attempted fixes. It is now on YOU to find a solution that actually solves the issue of course. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:01, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== Author:Zona Gale ==

Something has gone wrong with {{tl|IA}} causing problems that can be seen at [[Author:Zona Gale]].  So far, I have not been able to identify the specific cause.  &quot;Makeid&quot; was my best guess after checking several things, but a revert and purges have not solved the issue.  Can you spot what is causing the trouble? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:Nvm.  It was your edit to {{tl|IAl}}.  Problem fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:27, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:I'm going to review other edits I made around the same time.. Something HAS broken. Thank you.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:28, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Changing anchors ==

Is there a problem with [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Mrs_Beeton%27s_Book_of_Household_Management.djvu/1253&amp;curid=1988030&amp;diff=15019951&amp;oldid=7479246 this anchor]?  What is the problem?

And are you checking for (and changing) any and all pages that have this anchor as a target?  If not, then you are breaking anchors. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:20, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

: Definitely, It's part of the checks. And here in your linked example it's that I omitted to add the r in the inital transclude. I will however check for broken links on pages updated recently. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Treatise of the Covenant of Grace ==

Thanks for edits while I reminded myself about &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{nop}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; and inserted it at certain points where I had failed to do so earlier in the book.  However I create the individual pages in a text editor based on the EEBO-TCP text (checked with them for permission as far as I recall, or they told me I didn't need it - one or other; in any case it's not a direct copy but saves a lot of work).  In this particular page there will be complications of Greek text in the margin and perhaps identifying where it comes from.  As it's now late here in the UK I'm going to abandon ship for tonight, maybe come back in a few days time, health permitting.  I'm getting towards the end of the original text.  Let's hope I can get to the intended purpose, which is to create,  separately, a modern spelling (otherwise unaltered) edition, which may eventually get printed in book form as the original (composed of scanned and tidied images) has been since 2006.  Wikisource insists that the original one (that I've nearly finished) is done before the respelled one, which is regarded as annotated if I remember aright.[[User:PeterR2|PeterR2]] ([[User talk:PeterR2|talk]]) 23:53, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

== Confusing edit ==

Re: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:White_House_for_Sale_-_How_Princes,_Prime_Ministers,_and_Premiers_Paid_Off_President_Trump_-_Report.pdf/15&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=15055765 this], it seems like you added some CSS possibly for dark mode compatibility. I added the &quot;&lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt;&quot; background for this reason, but maybe I'm missing something. Can you elaborate on why you added this and what I'm maybe overlooking? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:16, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

: When you add a background:, you have to add color: as well.  Hence I used a codex token to provide the appropriate color. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:19, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::But &lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt; {{em text|is}} a color. How did you choose the colors you added? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:56, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I used what I felt was appropriate, and which was dark mode compatible. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:58, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/12]] ==

Thanks for adding the missing c/e tag - though shouldn't it be in the body not in the footer ? As the contents list ends there. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:31, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

== Correction of missing italic closures ==

Hi, I clearly have a blindspot in terms of closing italics, in those cases where it doesn't impact visually (e.g. at the end of lines). Could you point me at whatever tool it is you use to locate them? I chanced upon a reference to the following:{{pbr}}mw.loader.load( &quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint/r.js&amp;action=raw&amp;maxage=86400&amp;ctype=text/javascript&quot; );{{pbr}}which I hoped would do the job, but it doesn't seem to (it only seems to work on transclusions, and primarily objects to duplicate page ID's). Thanks, [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 17:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
: (If you'll excuse the intrusion) [[Special:LintErrors]] lists syntax errors like that; for unclosed tags it's [[Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag]] ([https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag?wpNamespaceRestrictions=&amp;titlecategorysearch=&amp;exactmatch=1&amp;tag=i&amp;template=all here] for unclosed italics). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:05, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

: Duplicate Page ID's can be ignored for now..   And I am pleased to say, most of the 'misssing end' tags are unpaired bold or italic markup. 333bot should also give a weekly list. the Lint Hint script does identify missing tags, you may have to sort them though, and even I will say it's not always perfect in finding them. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:31, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
: Indeed, SF00 has a good point: 333Bot maintains weekly at [[User:333Bot/missing-end-tag report]] a report of unclosed stuff by index :D (I don't know how I forgot lol, I literally made that 8 days ago). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] Thanks both. Just an observation, but wouldn't it be better to limit the report to pages at 'proofread' or 'validated' status? Most of the things it's picking up (as noted) are the result of pages saved (probably automatically) as 'not proofread', based on very poor OCR (if my sampling of 'Notes and Queries' volumes is anything to go by). Regards [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 19:32, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>j8gvsccbhg8rrdkdkh2dhzm4vm21ujk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132164</id>
      <parentid>15132147</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:37:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* Correction of missing italic closures */</comment>
      <origin>15132164</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="65607" sha1="t8pqhyfvcz2w2hpc8cp9cwguno7clc3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;!--
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; width: 60%; margin: auto; padding: 1em; border: solid 2px gold; background-color: royalblue; color: white; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;letter-spacing: 14px;&quot;&gt;CONSIDERING LEAVING&lt;/span&gt;{{#if:|&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;{{{1}}}}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: center; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;
An attempt to get other contributor interested in resolving missing tages and Linter errors in Content namespace backfired. 
&lt;/div&gt;
--&gt;

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== Font-size:smaller ==

I'm a bit wrong, but I still don't recommend it. Got to thinking after I adjusted a few that it looked like it was working the same, but never see it used, so [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jonesey95#%22Smaller%22 I asked]. Sharing as an FYI. Apologies for my error. [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 01:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== weird style problem and more ==
I came here to ask what you think is going on with this page [[Page:Arabian Nights Entertainments (1728)-Vol. 6.djvu/1]].  It has no style, yet it is rendering as if it does.  

Then I read your message to consider leaving.  To me it means &quot;they win&quot; &quot;they have everything now&quot;.  

I think that users of your software should each have their own name and not this name.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 08:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
: &lt;s&gt;I haven't edited that page seemingly. Can you explain more cleanly what's going on?&lt;/s&gt;&lt;br&gt;What is the exact error you are seeing? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

== 1 Stat. R. 50 ==

[[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu/96]]

Took a stab at it and removed the problematic status. I couldn't spot what made it problematic, so would appreciate your feedback on this one. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 16:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
: I can't recall,  Maybe I marked it problematic as an incomplete format, and forget to remove the status.  Keep going.  BTW if you want to standardise the formatting and make some notes on the talk page.  This volume's formatting is a little convoluted, and probably need someone to make it consistent across all pages. &lt;br&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:56, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:: If I had to guess, I think it was probably the footnotes within the footnotes. I have been going through all the prior pages to try and get used to what's already been done and touching up/standardizing across all pages, but I think this one was the first page I recall seeing footnoted footnotes. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 13:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Another thing: I've decided to include the untranslated text of the chapters in Latin and law-French in the template pages within the frame box, but I am wrapping those untranslated portions in noinclude tags (i.e., when the template is called, those untranslated portions will not render in the calling page). This way, they are at least typed up somewhere, and it's been proofread and is easy to access until we have actual pages to where we can place them on the other language wikis. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 04:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Check the equivalent pages at French and Latin Wikipedia, as I did an initial transcription of some of that text a while back. :) , By looking at those (and use of {{tl|iwpages}} and {tl|IwPageSection}} you might save some time.  I did this one transcription already.

Another note:  In building for mainspace:  On a longer acts the intention was to try and use the actual Short Title as the Work name if defined. The convention otherwise seems to be  &lt;Subject&gt; (taken from the The Chronologicial Table of The Statutes)&gt; &lt;year&gt;. Finding official short titles can be an involved process for early Statutes though.  

Elsewhere on Wikisource/Commons , there are scans of Statutes Of The Realm, which might assist Translation efforts. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:I know enough Latin and French that I can make passable attempts at directly translating them myself, but I'm not exactly sure where the translation I would produce should go. Would it be considered original research and thus need to be independenty published? I've got a little editing experience here, but in the main I guess I'm still kind of a noob. [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 10:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Wikisource supports user translations of Non English works,  but they should be clearly marked as Trabnslated by Wikisource, and seperate from other transcription efforts. As mentioned some of the Non English in Ruffhead was translated in &quot;Statutes of The Realm&quot; , but if you want to attempt your own Law translation feel free, Don't use GoogleTranslate as what it produces isn't quite the samewhen tested with a short section where Ruffhead has both the origianl and English translation. Please note that the French is Law French not Modern French. Also some translation of early statutes aren't always literal translation (as some of the parrallel printing indciates.) The reason why the Non English wasn't included here was to do with Wikisource policy at the time the work was started.
: If you want to attempt translations, feel free, but bear in mind other works  on Law might have done so already. For some items (although less likely for repealed items) a semi-official translation might be on legislation.gov.uk BTW[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
: I would suggest initially doing the translation in you Userspace, and then ask how to possibly link them on the Scriptorum:) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 10:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Any inklings you can share on why the class block template isn't working on [[Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 4.djvu/109|this]] and the previous few pages? [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 20:47, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
{{ping|Foofighter20x}} - The styles will need to imported from another volume and put on the relevantpage, currently VOl4 has no Indexstyles defined apparently.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:38, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

Hello. May I ask what is the benefit of edits like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:World_Fiction_1922%E2%80%931923.djvu/579&amp;curid=4560724&amp;diff=14620053&amp;oldid=14336619 this]? -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

: A long term goal to simplify the running header code used across wikisource. Currently there are around 86,000 single content running headers that are preventing the simplification. If you think alternately Rh/1 can be replaced with left/right/center appropriately, I have no objections provided that it's done consistently across a work, which is what the focus of some recent editing efforts is. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Talk page watcher, just stopping by to '''endorse''' this simplification of the running header code used across Wikisource. It is a broadly good thing to do. [[User:BD2412|&lt;span style=&quot;background:lightgreen;color:inherit;&quot;&gt;''BD2412''&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 14:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

::: Won't be following this up just yet, (but you are welcome to review Rh/1 usage) I am running a check-back on my delinting efforts outside content namespace over the last 10 years or so. If you want to review my past delints as well feel free. Currently looking at Talk namepsace. :) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

== Indexes ==

The [[Special:LintErrors/obsolete-tag|remaining pages]] of Index are free of Obsolete tags, and linthint's green when I scan these pages after publishing my edits, but I'm unable to clear Wikisource's claim of an obsolete tag remaining. I've tried purging page, hard purging, null editing, and got no change. Is it a wait it out situation, or am I overlooking something? [[User:Zinnober9|Zinnober9]] ([[User talk:Zinnober9|talk]]) 14:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Zinnober9}} Not just you, same issue. Consider raising a Phabriactor ticket as it's a headscratcher for me as well. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

== Explanation for edit? ==

Hi there! I noticed you made a [[Special:Diff/14664794|couple]] [[Special:Diff/14664802|edits]] to my userpage — however, I don't see any difference in the page before and after. Can you clarify what those are about? Thanks! [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|Waldyrious}} The edits are to do with night-mode: If you set the background color, you alos have to set the text color. If the repair worked would shouldn't see any changes. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::Ah, got it! Thank you :) [[User:Waldyrious|Waldyrious]] ([[User talk:Waldyrious|talk]]) 23:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== suggestion ==

change &quot;Apologies for the intteruption, but this was showing up on a list ofLints, missing style&quot;
to
&quot;Ignore this (I'm making a minor change to fix a list of missing style problems. sorry for the interuption&quot;

It took me a while to realise that I needed to do nothing.

cheers
[[User:Victuallers|Victuallers]] ([[User talk:Victuallers|talk]]) 14:48, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

== your assistance please... ==

You [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Geo_Swan&amp;oldid=951910035&amp;diff=960976114 left a note] on my user talk page on commons, with a link [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;offset=1730225&amp;exactmatch=1&amp;tag=i&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=829%0D%0A828%0D%0A711%0D%0A710%0D%0A115%0D%0A107%0D%0A106%0D%0A105%0D%0A103%0D%0A102%0D%0A101%0D%0A100%0D%0A15%0D%0A13%0D%0A14%0D%0A12%0D%0A11%0D%0A9%0D%0A8%0D%0A10%0D%0A7%0D%0A6%0D%0A1%0D%0A2%0D%0A3] here, which, unfortunately, wasn't helpful... 

I saw it started with [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag Lint errors: Missing end tag], and I started looking through the output on those pages, until I got to a page that listed some pages in user space I worked on.  I took a look at them, trying to figure out which tags were missing, without success.  Can you help me determine this?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 13:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

: {{ping|Geo Swan}} What's missing is for the most part italic and bold, which must be paired on a single line. I.e you typed &lt;nowiki&gt;'''&lt;/nowiki&gt; or &lt;nowiki&gt;''&lt;/nowiki&gt; at the start of a line, but forget to type the equivalent at the end of the line.  I was also asking if these were drafts you'd later migrated to scan backed Pages.  

I also use a script when editing pages - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint - it provides a button in the top of pages which when expanded gives a list of unpaired tags.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

:filtering the list even more - https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag&amp;exactmatch=&amp;tag=all&amp;template=all&amp;titlecategorysearch=User%3AGeo+Swan&amp;wpNamespaceRestrictions=2  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:* Thanks for your heads-up, and for [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User:Geo_Swan/working/Summary_of_Evidence_memos/pg256&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14675722 this] example.  
:* What is ns104?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 17:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:: Page: namespace . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

== span and color ==

Where is the wiki documentation is &quot;color&quot; now required to be explicitly specified in a span tag? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

: You raise a reasonable point, I'm not sure the requirement that backgroound/background-color must now be accompanied by (foreground) color is adequately documented at Wikisource. It is however documented alongside the description of the relevant Lint Error in the documentation at Meta. Migration of FONT to span may alos have simmilar issues.  If you want me to start reverting every single coonversion I can do that, but I feel strongly it would create far more noise than it solves. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In relation to 'night-mode' - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/night-mode-unaware-background-color
:{{ping|EncycloPetey}} In reltaion to FONT-&gt;SPAN , https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Lint_errors/obsolete-tag

== Finding dumb typos ==

How do you find errors like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Nella_Larson_-_Quicksand.pdf/301&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=14690241 this] so quickly? Do you somehow subscribe to [[Special:LintErrors]]? I'd like to reduce your overhead by at least quickly cleaning up my own mistakes. Thanks. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 21:26, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Koavf}} I just monitor to the list of LintErrors on a regular basis. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:28, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

== Need help ==

Please take a look here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Talk:War_of_the_Classes#Duplication_of_chapter_heading -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 16:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
: I think it's fixed now. -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) 18:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

== Old transcriptions in User Space.. ==

I apologize for my late reply to [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJan.Kamenicek&amp;diff=14674500&amp;oldid=14673810 your request] regarding some old transcriptions in user space. The reason is I have been only rarely online recently due to being very busy in my offline life. However, I am not really sure what action is requested from me. If you think they should be deleted, it would probably be best to propose their deletion via the usual process. I am afraid I cannot just speedy a page from a user's space without any serious reason. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

: The message was that I was asking if you had time to rescue any of them as potential POTM or Monthy Challanges, duplicates could be courtesy blanking, but that might be contentious, so would have to go through the normal 'Proposed Deletion' process.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 10:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::I see. Not sure if I will have time for that, but you may try to write directly to the POTM or Monthly Challenges talk pages. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

== Scribners jpegs ==

I almost undid your undo.  I need a few minutes to think about it.  You correct me too quickly, I learn by my little bits of clean up.  {{diff|14749908|text=14:50 and 14:52|olddiff=14749906}}

You gave me less than what, less than 3 minutes to figure it out?

Your edits recently have been mostly bogus (meaning I did not make that mistake) and creepy.  I am already cringing when I see you have been on my work.  

But that was a good template.  Some one has to figure out how to separate this from the google spam, I think.

ShakespeareFan00 should always be very credible with anything css.

Okay so
#More time between my edit and yours.
#Always have credible edits.
#Detach from my google spam

And a large part of my life would be better, great even.  I learned a lot from you.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

: Okay so you are concerned that putting the suggested fix back in was done to quickly?  None of my recent edits were anything other than good faith attempts to make reapirs to resolve lint concerns and related issues.   Do you have a specific list of other edits you have concerns about? If you have getting stressed from having your efforts 'reapaired' than I strongly suggest taking a few days away from contributing. Are you using AI or a a transaltion tool because your comments above sound like a generated response BTW   [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

== Ppoem native rules ==

Would you mind spelling out what spec exactly you have in mind? Two things need to be defined: input, what the user enters, and output, what it should produce. {{sm|The input format at {{tl|ppoem/testcases}} could be criticized because it looks kinda like HTML, with the angle brackets, especially when you compare comment start: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--&lt;/nowiki&gt; and that: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;-&lt;/nowiki&gt; (maybe not a real problem).}} It's mostly about the output that I don't know what to do. If we want to be semantically correct, it's a kind of &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, taking some care to arrange the stanzas around it. This would mean that it would always separate stanzas in two, which semantically may be meh. If that isn't too bad, this'd be option #1 for me. There are plenty of ways to fake horizontal lines, e.g. a span with &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;css&quot; inline&gt;height:0px;border-top:1px solid black;display:inline-block;&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;, but that is surely bad semantic-wise. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:27, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Hmm.  Do you have an alternate syntax.. ?   We need to be able to do {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem though. 

Standard wikitest would be  ----  for a rule on a single line , but that doesn't allow for the additional paramaters {{tl|rule}} did.

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;
&lt;-:x&gt; Outputs the same as {{tlx|rule|4em}} , but appropriately centered within the ppoem outer container, using an HR, which breaks stanzas if encountered. Is it possible to have a means of adding addition params stop set style? or do he have something like &lt;-:width:height:style&gt; ?  hmm...

&lt;--:x&gt;  Was intended to be a double rule (essentially a style change). with the same params.
&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;
Note: The rules need to collapse, I.e each {{tag|hr|s}} must be it's own line, with appropriate spacing. And obviously rules need to be outside the 'stanzas' (The implied Stanza break you were favouring. 

[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:On input syntax, maybe the same thing replacing the angle brackets by something else? IDK. I wouldn't die on that hill anyhow
:The hr's are not line content, and so would not in fact be inside any lines, it would be outside lines and stanzas.
:On default params, I think {{tl|rule}}'s way of putting full height when nothing given is better, because 4em wasn't used any more than 3em, or 6em, or 5em (and also, if it's default it's easier to find, with &lt;-:100%&gt;(the way to get it if it's not default) maybe being not intuitive, unlike the ems).
:On multiple rules, it'd maybe be better, as very often when there are multiple they are not the same size, to allow putting something like &lt;code&gt;&lt;-:8em:4px&gt;&lt;-:6em:2px&gt;&lt;/code&gt; on a single line (in the input) for these two hrs to be right after each others in the output, with nothing in between. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:45, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Oh, also, on rule inside ppoem: this would get all of rule's functionalities, and it trying to parse where the p tag will autoclose, to try and make a cleaner stanza break around it, would be an absolute nightmare. Remaking a specialized parser is a pain, and it's likely to not understand code exactly the same way mw does (I've done it once, for a simplified parser), and if we try and rely on mediawiki parsing, we'll have to match the output to the input, which is also complicated.
:There are very few of these 600 invalid uses that should've been valid. There were the {{tl|rule}} ones, and {{tl|cr}} can hopefully be made inline-block (intend to look into it sometime soon), and apart from that, I don't remember any (the rest was things like FI, nesting ppoem, cblock, &amp;c). Once this is done, there'll be no use for {{tl|rule}} inside ppoem, and normally we don't have another template to replicate. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:52, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: I'm not set on the angle brackets,  If you can find something that is wasy to parse for, feel free to use it.  I support your idea width:height btw ;).. Do we have custom rules which set a style attrib on the {{tag|hr|s}} ?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:(width:height was your idea, not mine, I just shamelessly stole it from your answer.) Custom styles is just {{tlx|1=rule|2=...|3=style=...}}, I think. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: So we  would need a way to have the style in the syntax, or better would be the classing approach already supported for lines and stanzas...  ;)
::Oh. very good idea. So &lt;-:width:height:class1 class2 class3 ...&gt;, with classes separated by spaces, adding .ws-poem-[name]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:05, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Exactly . [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])
::::And output, it would be an hr, with class ws-poem-rule and user-added classes, and with style height:what the user gave or 1px if they didn't give anything, and width:what they gave or 100%. (The ws-poem-rule class would permit work-scale styling, e.g. if all rules inside ppoems are in this book 4em or 6em or whatever. Will get at work in sandbox and show you end result when I'm done. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:12, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Well, I guess this is all made moot now, apart maybe from the use it would still have of better semantics (the rules not being line content)? I'd like your opinion on that. What do you think?
::::Again, I cannot tell you how sorry I am for dragging you into that mess, essentially for nothing. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:14, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

== The Night Born ==

Thanks for your edits there. I see now how fine block is supposed to work across pages. (I wonder if it is worth mentioning that on the template page). I don't see what nopf is doing - would you be so kind as to explain ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:The {{tl|nopf}} is there to stop the last line of the page becoming it's own paragraph. (Known glitch in Proofread page/Mediawiki [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 07:54, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

== fsn and (all)smallcaps ==

Last january, {{tl|fsn}} was changed by you to normalise not only italic, as was its purpose till then, but also smallcaps. This breaks some stuff, as up to 2024 it did not remove smallcaps. Moreover, this duplicates the purpose of {{tl|fvn}}. Do you agree that normalising smallcaps should be left to that template, and removed from {{tl|fsn}}? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:32, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

: Do what you think is appropriate, but remember to check usages. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 09:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

== In re Eng. Rep. ==

Just a heads up: since I reloaded the 1 ER base file with an assembled pdf of clearer and less-distorted scans from CommonLII (which is why I stopped editing for a few days: was figuring out how to use Python to grab all those files), the default OCR that Wikimedia is using to prefill the body block when loading an uncreated page has been producing ''worse'' quality OCR prefills.

''However'', above the page display window on the right, I've found that changing to the Google OCR in the &quot;Transcribe Text&quot; dropdown and then punching that button that prior to any editing works ''miracles.'' You probably already noticed/knew this, but in case you hadn't/didn't, I'd loathe myself if I didn't save you ''lots'' of editing time by not mentioning it. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 22:35, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

: I was aware of the Google OCR, it was my standard goto.  Thanks for the new scans..  If you can assemble a PDF for the volumes we don't have that would be very useful.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::Yep, that's very much on my radar. The catch in pulling the better scans from Common LII has been that I have to combine all the files in Acrobat Pro and then go through the compiled volume page by page to eliminate all the duplicate pages (i.e., where one case ends and the next begins on the same page, that page will be in each file, hence will be present twice in the assembled Acrobat binder; there's simply no way to automate that process in AAP). On top of that, I still have to find scans of the Eng. Rep. volumes proper that have been posted online so I can also include the front and back matter, which isn't available at Common LII. Still, now that I have the Python code working the way I want it, I've got it on my short term to-do list. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:03, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Always more work to do: Have started to put together the [[The_English_Reports|front page for the set]] and for each volume. I'm also trying to include corrections and date conversions as I go along (within tooltips; see [[The_English_Reports/Volume_1|here]] as to R v. Visc. Purbeck, in re its purported year of decision). --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 21:02, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: You might need to fork the template which was designed primarly for US cases, not British ones? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 23:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Sounds like a good idea, but I'm an American, so I'm not exactly sure what all info should be mandatory/required, and what else should be includable. I could always start with what's in [https://www.legalbluebook.com/bluebook/v21/tables/t2-foreign-jurisdictions/t2-43-united-kingdom Table 2.43 of The Bluebook], but a little specialized knowledge from a Brit would be beneficial before I'm so bold to start. Also, at least as far as the Eng. Rep. editors put in references to Mews Dig., I'd think including those snippets from Mews as quasi-headnote in the case page, as I did in [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]]. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 23:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: Generally, if it isn't the original scan, adding headnotes from another source, is an 'annotation' which is generally discouraged, also the headnotes source might not be under a compatible license, unlike the text in the scans. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 00:03, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
::I guess I should clarify what I mean by &quot;adding headnotes&quot;: I'm only thinking of putting that Mews material in the notes block of the header template at the top of the transcluded presentation pages (again, see [[R v. Viscount Purbeck]] toward the top in the gray). In support of that, I'll add that I think the only parts of the Eng. Rep. that weren't published before Jan. 1, 1930 are the two index volumes; if that's the case and they are still copyrighted (which I'm not sure they ever were), they'll be out of copyright in a year... Given that all those substantive volumes are public domain, their references to Mews necessarily implies that such Mews material is also public domain. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 00:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Question: another editor has come in and removed the page numbering markers I put in the index pages for vols. 76 and 77 (i.e., where it demarks where the different volumes of the contained editions, are, such as 1 Co., 2 Co., etc.). Is my inclusion of those frowned on? Figured I should ask someone with experience before I start a potential reversion fight. --- [[User:Foofighter20x|Foofighter20x]] ([[User talk:Foofighter20x|talk]]) 06:38, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Shouldn't be a problem. Often the page number removal isn't intended. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:02, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

== Front matter page numbers ==

I've noticed several recent books where you've set of the from matter page numbering with errors.  You seem to be assuming the title page is '''i''', but for the books you've set up, that isn't the case.  When there is a half-title, ''that's'' usually page '''i''' (except in cases where some arbitrary earlier page is the starting point). --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:11, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: Thanks, I'll take another look. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:20, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Can you list some specific examples, as the ones I've had another look at seem to do the front matter from the Half title? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::See for example [[Index:Rainbow Valley text.djvu]], where the Half-title is the start page, and there is a leaf for the Frontispiece inserted between pages ii and iii.  Plate-beating leaves are usually inserted after the printed pages are folded.  Or see [[Index:Red Harvest.pdf]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:38, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Already corrected. and I am finding some others as I check.  Thanks for the heads up, List anymore you find below :).  
:(Aside) A lot of the Duplicate Page-ID's seems to be front matter with duplicative ID's. The intent was (with checks) to replace some of these with 'roman' numerals from the works concerned? , For image plates I was considering amending them to use  &quot;(sp&lt;djvupage&gt;)&quot; or &quot;(fp&lt;adjacent pageid&gt;)&quot; depending on the work. What are your suggestions? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::Two issues to consider: (1) Our recommendations explicitly allow for named pages when the work in question does not have a clear numbering system for pages in the front matter. (2) Changing page numbers / naming can break page links, so it shouldn't happen unless it's absolutely necessary.
::Why &quot;sp&quot;?  And where was the change to image page naming discussed? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::: sp=Scanpage. I hadn't raised the issue on Scriptorum yet, so will not be changing existing numbering (other than the Half/Title confusion you pointed out.).  Something needs to be done about the 'linter noise' though. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:07, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

==Quick question==
Hey ShakespeareFan00. On [[Index:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4, STORMS.pdf]], I noticed [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index:Monthly_Weather_Review,_Volume_1,_Issue_4,_STORMS.pdf&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=14784703 made an edit] changing a X to a C, and as I have seen this done by several editors before, I wanted to know why? I don't even know what the C or X stands for, so hopefully you can explain them as well for a newbie. [[User:WeatherWriter|WeatherWriter]] ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|talk]]) 21:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

: It means someone checked the uploaded file was complete. Carry on proofreading. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:25, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

== Orphaned categories ==

Hi, these categories that you created have no parents and so are lost in the tree. Can you please review and determine their best position?
* [[:Category:Malformed identifer for numbered div]]
* [[:Category:Parameter3(Numbered Div)]]
Thanks, [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

== Pagelists ==

Thanks for adding pagelists to some of my recently added indexes. (I am still quite new at doing these.) 

Is there an easy way to get those lists ? Or do you have to go through the scans to see what is there ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:08, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

:You have to go through the scans, but an easy and fun way of doing it is at the top right. It's the &quot;wikisource page game&quot;, and it figures it out pretty well. 
:For some reason, when I upload a new document, the scan is not properly available. It always throws an error up, at least for a few hours. Then I remember a day later and come back to it, and @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] has already done it for me. [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 06:48, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
::(This &quot;Invalid interval&quot; problem can be fixed by purging the file at commons.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:00, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:FPTI|FPTI]], @[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] - thanks guys. I'll have to have a go at that some time. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:46, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Alien333|Alien333]] How does one purge a file at commons? I'm having the same problem with [[Index:Demonology and Devil lore volume 1, conway.djvu]]. Please don't do it for me, I want to learn how to do it so I can stop being bothersome about it. Unless it's something that only a mod or privileged editor can do? — [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:16, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::[[C:Help:Purge|Never mind. Found it.]] [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Nah, it's easy. There's a &quot;purge clock&quot; (or perhaps &quot;UTC clock&quot;, I don't remember exactly) gadget. Once you activate it, you should get a blue clock in the top left menu. Click it to purge. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 09:19, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Squab Culture.djvu]] ==

I note that there is also [[Index:Squab culture (IA squabculture00wood).pdf]] which someone has started work on. Do you think we want both versions ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:02, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

: Prefer Djvu, I'm assuming same exact edition? Take it to Scriptorur or WS:PD? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 22:53, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

==''The Flowering of Racial Spirit''==
The one on p. ix was fine; the one on p. xi caused the poem in the footnote to render without the poem block formatting. Your new change (which brings p. xi’s formatting in line with p. ix’s) fixes that problem. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:01, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Template:copyvio ==

If this template needs a {{tl:copyvio/e}} at the end, shouldn't that be mentioned on the template page ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:37, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

: It's not generally noticed.  {{tl|copyvio/e}} only exists really to shut the linter up. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 01:39, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

== Too many edit conflicts ==
Too many edit conflicts!  It is not helpful to me.  These volumes sat here for several days, that you pick ''while I am working on it'' to also work on it is disturbing and creates more work for me.  

Tell me which volume you want to work on and I will upload them for you! Thank you in advanced for your understanding of my problems with this.  Truly, ''my problem'' and probably not yours.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 15:34, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

: Apologies, Did not mean to edit conflict with you.  You did it a much better proofread on the ToC concerned than I ever could. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 16:27, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Template:Hanging indent]] ==

Could you explain what issues you were seeing with line breaks, and maybe add some cases to [[Template:Hanging indent/testcases]]? It's very inconvenient that {{tl|hanging indent}} doesn't respect standard wikimarkup paragraph breaks, so I'd like to get this sorted out. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 23:32, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

:Part of the issue is the templated DIV in a list which ends up producing:
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext&gt;
*&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;
* ...

or 

:&lt;div&gt;
Content

&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

Mediawiki then wraps or list breaks..  In the latter case the indentation should be migrated to use the proper marginating templates. 

I'm not sure how to fix the underlying issue in the back-end. 
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

I appreciate you trying to solve these, but this particular template might need a complete rethink, unless someones prepared to hold the developers to actually implementing a solution to the wrapping problem.  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thank you for fixing anchors and format problems in texts processed by me! To be honest, anchor errors could be hard to find, so I'd like to ask how did you spot out them?[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] ([[User talk:廣九直通車|talk]]) 04:18, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:Sharp eyesight, common sense, and &quot;Duplicate ID&quot; lint reporting. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:59, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

== Getting started ==

Hi there! I just got started here on WikiSource, and I created [[Index:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf]] for a place-names book I often reference in my research. I noticed your name in the recent changes list, and you seem to know your way around here, so I just wanted to reach out to make sure this actually is within the scope of WikiSource like I think it is. I was also wondering if I maybe should have changed the title of the document on the Commons first, as I don't see many other index pages titled like the one I just made. Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 17:55, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: Looks okay from a technical perspective.  You have checked it's out of copyright? (Canada is 50 pma) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:04, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::That's a good question, navigating copyright has been a little confusing for me. This book was published in 1922, but I can't find any available information about when the author died. I guess this would mean copyright is uncertain, and therefore it can't be included? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:09, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:: Well IA seemed to think this was Okay, so you might need to dig a little deeper. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:17, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:::I wasn't the one who originally uploaded the commons file just for clarity, I figured because it was on there it was okay. But now that I got to looking, the copyright justification on IA is ''&quot;Evidence reported by Internet Archive biblio tool for item placenamesofprov00browrich on March 12, 2008: no visible notice of copyright; stated date is 1922.&quot;'' but Thomas. J Brown published ''The commercial printing industry : a leader in New Jersey's changing economy'' in 1984, so that means it's not out of copyright and shouldn't be on here or the Commons, is that right? [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:21, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

: I did some searchign and found - https://archives.novascotia.ca/vital-statistics/death/?ID=209042 from 1926 which seems to match with details in the work.  The 1984 entry is a potentially a different person. Someone publhsing in 1922 would have to be around 80 in 1984 (not impossible but highly unlikely, given the different location). I say it's okay until we get other infromation. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:30, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::Wow, I guess you're a lot better at Google-Fu than I am. I appreciate you going out of your way to find that. In that case, I guess I'm good to keep going. Thanks a lot. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:36, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

== rh/1 ==

If you're [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index%3ADark_Hester.djvu&amp;diff=14917389&amp;oldid=14917096 using rh/1 with a class], then why wasn't the &quot;sp&quot; formatting placed in the style sheet as well? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:01, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

: If you know the CSS to do it, I'll clean up the existing contributions  I made :) &lt;syntaxhighlight lang=css inline-yes&gt;letter-spacing: &lt;value&gt;?&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt; [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:06, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
::Use letter-spacing:0.15em; for the same as {{tl|sp}}; you can always examine the code used in the template. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:39, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

== USStatChapHead ==

When chapnum is 1 the template displays {{sc|Chapter I.}} instead of {{sc|Chap. I.}}. Could you add a way to disable that for instances in which we would legitimately need it to say {{sc|Chap. I.}}. See [[Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 6.djvu/283]] for example [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 14:25, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: {{ping|ToxicPea}} attempted to implement {{parameter|noexpand}}  yes {{parameter|noexpand{{=}}yes}} to get the desired behaviour. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:41, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia ==

Thank you very much for all your support over the course of my transcribing of this book. I'm just finishing up extracting the images now before I get started on going through and verifying everything and correcting the last of the errors. One thing I couldn't figure out exactly is what I'm supposed to do with the front cover page. Should I extract the cover image and just use plain text for the title, or do you even need to transcribe the front cover? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 14:26, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

: Extract. I think this is too complex to transcribe directly.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 14:27, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you, I think I figured it out.
::Sorry to bother you again so soon, but I've just encountered another issue [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|here]]. I had it in my head that the main point of adding all those anchor links was to allow for wikilinking between the pages in cases like this, but it seems to force an underscore in there. Is there another way to go about this? Thanks, [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 16:33, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
:::(Sorry for the intrusion) That was related to the way [[Module:Anchor]] implemented {{tl|anchor link}}. The real anchors (which are HTML ids) cannot include spaces, and so the spaces are always replaced by underscores. For the display of the link template, though, it makes more sense to replace the underscores by spaces, so I made it do that. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:45, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks a lot! I had a feeling there might be a solution like that. Much appreciated. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 18:49, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:The color printer (1892).djvu/review]] ==

Is this page required ? (I have no idea what it is doing - it shows as orphaned.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:27, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
: It was a shorthand I was using during the transcrpiton.  Are you trying to clear unused pages, if so I suggest leaving userspace alone. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:29, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::Yes - but this isn't in userspace - in is in indexspace ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:46, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
::: Unused shortcut, If orpahaned no need to keep it. as this was presumably subst.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 21:47, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

== Help in including special latin characters==
I have found some characters such as letters &quot;a&quot; and &quot;o&quot; with double dots below them together with tones above the letters as seen on [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Dictionary_of_the_Foochow_Dialect.pdf/31 this page]. I tried to find them from Latin extended word lists from the edit box and also Google search but can't find any of them. Apparently, [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]] is able to do that on this page [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:DFD_index&amp;action=history DFD Index] with the letter &quot;u&quot; but he is inactive for more than one year. Your help is very much appreciated, thank you. [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 04:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:I'm not sure how Inductiveload found them either.  Have you checked a Unicode charecter search ? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:42, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

::[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]], apparently the words can be entered by using a special software. I found[https://cdo.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B9%AB%E5%8A%A9:Ci%C5%8Fng-i%C3%B4ng_t%C4%95%CC%A4k this page] on Foochow Wikipedia in the section  &quot;平話字的輸入法&quot;. Will need some time to figure it out.[[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 11:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Normally your OS lets you enter characters by unicode codepoints. For example if you want ̤̆a, you can enter U+306, then U+324, then &quot;a&quot;. (codepoints of diacritical marks are listed at [[w:Combining Diacritical Marks]]). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Alien333|Alien]], got it, thanks! [[User:Cerevisae|Cerevisae]] ([[User talk:Cerevisae|talk]]) 02:03, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

== Anchor links ==

Hello again - I'm back to finish validating the place-names book now, and there's another issue with the anchor links - If you go to an [[Page:Place-names of the province of Nova Scotia (IA placenamesofprov00browrich).pdf/9|an individual page]], the anchor links work just fine, but they don't work on the [[Place-Names of the Province of Nova Scotia/A|transclusion]]. I can see what's going on but I'm not sure if it can even be fixed. Am I missing something, or is this just a limitation of the module? Thanks! [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:05, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

: Not sure, ask at Scriptorum/Help [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 11:06, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks, I hadn't found that yet. [[User:MediaKyle|MediaKyle]] ([[User talk:MediaKyle|talk]]) 11:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
==[[Page:The Zoologist, 4th series, vol 1 (1897).djvu/522]]==
I don’t know how to check for lint errors, so I’m not sure what the technical issue with this page is. I would assume it is owing to the tables at the top of the page, and not the few templates at the bottom. I would go about this by creating in-table template instances, which I can do at some later point if you would like. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:45, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

This was fixed in the CSS, but having two different table formats isn't good practice. The Lint eventually proved to be unrelated to the rendering! (also fixed.). Interesting alternate way to do leaders though, although I would suggest classing the table?  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 08:33, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
*I hadn’t actually looked at it—it looks like the tables use dotted lines to represent the dots (as opposed to ''dtpl''’s weird single-line wrapped-in table nonsense). I would switch everything to templates, but that’s just because I use templates more than tables for this purpose. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:21, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

==Page counter==
Sorry I think I've seen you put pagelists on my indexes a few times, I try to do it but keep hitting the same problem; I click to use the &quot;Page Counter Game&quot; or whatever it's called, it shows me an image I hit -, -, -, cover, -, -, title, then as soon as we're at Page 1-10 I hit &gt; to skip ahead, but then when I hit &quot;img&quot; at pg32 or whatever...it says that it's the next consecutive page number after title...what am I doing wrong here? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 13:19, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

'&lt;' ' &gt; '  Only changes the image you see.  It doesn't set the number up or advance the page that is being set.   BTW Consider slowing down a little.  There's a general consensus about not just saving recovered OCR into the Page namespace:  I appreciate you are marking as Not-Proofread, but some processing before saving is greatly appreicated by other contributors. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 13:57, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

::I ''think'' I typically am making improvements to the OCRed text even if only half the page, in part I can't keep track of all the templates you guys are using and such so I've started inserting the {{c and {{smallcaps and {{blackletter for example whenever needed - but I can't remember the method of some of the other stuff and I can't remember where I've seen you use it in the past. Is there some other way to make a pagelist other than manually loading 300 PAGE: files to view whether or not there's an image? I feel like there ''should'' be a way to just view a thumbnail gallery showing ~100 images at a time zoomed way out? [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 17:25, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: There isn't that feature that I know of yet. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:29, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Orlando Furioso ==

I am consistently using the same syntax in the Notes as in the main body.  I am deliberately not using {{tl|ppoem}} in this eight-volume set, because it can't handle the long multi-page poetry.  I am formatting the Notes using the same syntax as elsewhere instead of mixing multiple methods. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:46, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

: Ah okay, please revert. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:05, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Catchwords on Ruffhead's Statutes at Large ==

I've been marking up the catch words at the bottom of the page as:

{ {right|the} }

because that is what I saw on the finished pages for Ruffhead vol. 9.

I've just seen you've marked a page up with

{ {continues|the} }

Which way is standard? Is there a set of guidelines for Ruffhead anywhere?
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 18:46, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: There are  not guidelines as such. Feel free to write them.   I use continues if it's a continued paragraph. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:52, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::Just found that the discussion page has guidelines:
::[[Index talk:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu]]
::I'll add somethign to that. But should there be a dedicated page to agreed guidelines, and not just comments in a discussion?
::Thanks for yoru reply &amp; help. [[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:08, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Statutory Instruments ==

Do you know of a full list of all the Statutory Instruments? I've just had a colleague ask about an SI rescinded before the annual volume was published, as wasn't included in it. Nor is it listed in the [[Table_of_Government_Orders]] I linked to on IA.
	
[[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 19:05, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

: I don't sorry.  Other than the compliled lists in the published volumes, the only defintive source I know of for temporary or local ones is legislation.gov.uk.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]])

:the IA copy is 'limited preview' and the license is not OGL as this volume pre-dates it.. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:39, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Last page ==

Could you please validate [[Page:Astrology (1904).pdf/351]] real quick? Thank you. ^^ [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 21:59, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

== Clearing duplicate IDs ==

Your changes are, in some cases, swapping one set of identical labeling for a different set of identical labeling, in other places, generating nonsense, and in some cases generating information that is flat out incorrect. I think it would be better to work with the community to come up with a better solution before proceeding with more changes.

This is a problem we may ''have'' to live with, because there are some volumes that have repeated page numbers. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:51, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

: As you objected, I'm reverting the attempted fixes. It is now on YOU to find a solution that actually solves the issue of course. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:01, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== Author:Zona Gale ==

Something has gone wrong with {{tl|IA}} causing problems that can be seen at [[Author:Zona Gale]].  So far, I have not been able to identify the specific cause.  &quot;Makeid&quot; was my best guess after checking several things, but a revert and purges have not solved the issue.  Can you spot what is causing the trouble? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:Nvm.  It was your edit to {{tl|IAl}}.  Problem fixed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:27, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:I'm going to review other edits I made around the same time.. Something HAS broken. Thank you.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 15:28, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Changing anchors ==

Is there a problem with [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Mrs_Beeton%27s_Book_of_Household_Management.djvu/1253&amp;curid=1988030&amp;diff=15019951&amp;oldid=7479246 this anchor]?  What is the problem?

And are you checking for (and changing) any and all pages that have this anchor as a target?  If not, then you are breaking anchors. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:20, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

: Definitely, It's part of the checks. And here in your linked example it's that I omitted to add the r in the inital transclude. I will however check for broken links on pages updated recently. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

== Treatise of the Covenant of Grace ==

Thanks for edits while I reminded myself about &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{nop}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; and inserted it at certain points where I had failed to do so earlier in the book.  However I create the individual pages in a text editor based on the EEBO-TCP text (checked with them for permission as far as I recall, or they told me I didn't need it - one or other; in any case it's not a direct copy but saves a lot of work).  In this particular page there will be complications of Greek text in the margin and perhaps identifying where it comes from.  As it's now late here in the UK I'm going to abandon ship for tonight, maybe come back in a few days time, health permitting.  I'm getting towards the end of the original text.  Let's hope I can get to the intended purpose, which is to create,  separately, a modern spelling (otherwise unaltered) edition, which may eventually get printed in book form as the original (composed of scanned and tidied images) has been since 2006.  Wikisource insists that the original one (that I've nearly finished) is done before the respelled one, which is regarded as annotated if I remember aright.[[User:PeterR2|PeterR2]] ([[User talk:PeterR2|talk]]) 23:53, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

== Confusing edit ==

Re: [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:White_House_for_Sale_-_How_Princes,_Prime_Ministers,_and_Premiers_Paid_Off_President_Trump_-_Report.pdf/15&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=15055765 this], it seems like you added some CSS possibly for dark mode compatibility. I added the &quot;&lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt;&quot; background for this reason, but maybe I'm missing something. Can you elaborate on why you added this and what I'm maybe overlooking? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:16, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

: When you add a background:, you have to add color: as well.  Hence I used a codex token to provide the appropriate color. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:19, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::But &lt;code&gt;transparent&lt;/code&gt; {{em text|is}} a color. How did you choose the colors you added? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:56, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I used what I felt was appropriate, and which was dark mode compatible. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 17:58, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/12]] ==

Thanks for adding the missing c/e tag - though shouldn't it be in the body not in the footer ? As the contents list ends there. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:31, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

== Correction of missing italic closures ==

Hi, I clearly have a blindspot in terms of closing italics, in those cases where it doesn't impact visually (e.g. at the end of lines). Could you point me at whatever tool it is you use to locate them? I chanced upon a reference to the following:{{pbr}}mw.loader.load( &quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint/r.js&amp;action=raw&amp;maxage=86400&amp;ctype=text/javascript&quot; );{{pbr}}which I hoped would do the job, but it doesn't seem to (it only seems to work on transclusions, and primarily objects to duplicate page ID's). Thanks, [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 17:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
: (If you'll excuse the intrusion) [[Special:LintErrors]] lists syntax errors like that; for unclosed tags it's [[Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag]] ([https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag?wpNamespaceRestrictions=&amp;titlecategorysearch=&amp;exactmatch=1&amp;tag=i&amp;template=all here] for unclosed italics). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:05, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

: Duplicate Page ID's can be ignored for now..   And I am pleased to say, most of the 'misssing end' tags are unpaired bold or italic markup. 333bot should also give a weekly list. the Lint Hint script does identify missing tags, you may have to sort them though, and even I will say it's not always perfect in finding them. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 18:31, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
: Indeed, SF00 has a good point: 333Bot maintains weekly at [[User:333Bot/missing-end-tag report]] a report of unclosed stuff by index :D (I don't know how I forgot lol, I literally made that 8 days ago). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] Thanks both. Just an observation, but wouldn't it be better to limit the report to pages at 'proofread' or 'validated' status? Most of the things it's picking up (as noted) are the result of pages saved (probably automatically) as 'not proofread', based on very poor OCR (if my sampling of 'Notes and Queries' volumes is anything to go by). Regards [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 19:32, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::: There is a script to markup the status of Pages in LintError reports -https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User:Sohom_Datta/page-status-highlighter.js[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00#top|talk]]) 19:37, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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      <text bytes="3951" sha1="epvbu2ul3vsx41n5ixmdjyfx67v3jby" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{xx-larger block|{{Block center|C. R. CRANE EXTOLS {{float right|CZECHS IN SIBERIA|gutter=.4em}}{{Clear}}}}}}
{{rule|6em}}
{{c|{{x-larger|Says They Are Brave and Orderly—Aided by Col Emerson and Paul Rainey}}}}
{{rule|6em}}
Chicago, Dec. 30—The present Russian situation is a puzzle and a muddle. No man truthfully can say that, aside from information, he really knows anything about it. The news the outside world has received concerning internal Russia is inaccurate, and has been so for months, for nobody who has been able to get out of Russia has been able to make a large survey of conditions. It has been, with individuals, a case of skulking and hiding and existing along one long groove before they could escape the iron ring of the bolsheviki.

This is the opinion of [[Author:Charles Richard Crane|Charles R. Crane]], former Chicagoan, who has just returned from a flying trip to the edge of Siberia.

“It was at Harbin I learned of the signing of the armistice,” said Mr. Crane, “and I at once lost interest in my journey and was only interested in getting back to America quickly. It seemed rather harsh of fate. I have been to Russia 22 times in the last 20 years and had always been anxious to get to Siberia, but had never reached it. Here I was on the edge, and the real mission that took me there—the desire to look personally into Russian conditions and to cross Siberia in getting into Russia—had no further interest.

“I met Col Emerson, an engineer officer of the American army, who was in Siberia when the Czecho-Slovak army made its appearance, and he joined and helped them. He was formerly president of the Great Northern railroad, a $35.000 job, and was glad to serve the country for $3000 in the war. A fine type of man he is.

The Czecho-Slovaks control Siberia from the Ural mountains, the Russian border, a distance of 2000 miles—almost as far as from Chicago to San Francisco. We would think it a remarkable thing for less than 40,000 men to garrison all the towns in that stretch of {{SIC|teritory|territory}}, but this is what the Czecho-Slovaks have done. They put a handful of men in each town, surrounded by bolsheviki, and this handful managed to bluff and stand off the bolsheviki and retain control. It is wonderful.

“This Czecho-Slovak army was commanded by Gen Gaida, 27 years old, formerly a Mexican student. He must be a great organizer and strategist. When they landed in Siberia from the western front they had practically no arms. That didn’t worry them. The bolsheviki were well armed, and in many cases had German officers in command.

“What did the {{SIC|Cezcho|Czecho}}-Slovaks do? They went at them, literally barehanded, often with rocks as their only weapons, fighting machine gun fire. They took machine guns and other weapons from their enemies and actually armed themselves with what they captured.

“They govern well. Although they lived for most part in boxcars while they were fighting, these cars were immaculate. Wherever they stayed in a town a few days they started little gardens and began to clean things up and put affairs in order—and keep them so. They did hard and severe fighting, bore hardships ungrudgingly, and certainly showed a stuff which augurs well for the new Czecho-Slovak republic. Col Emerson was intensely enthusiastic about them, and so was Paul Rainey, the African traveler, who was with them for a time, made some wonderful photographs, and went back to them. Col Emerson helped them to build roads and bridges which the bolsheviki destroyed in their retreat.”

Mr Crane said he might go to Europe soon, as he was interested in the new republics, and also in Robert and Constantinople colleges, in Constaninople. Of the latter—which is an institution for women—he is president, and of the former a trustee. He was enthusiastic over the work these colleges had done during the war, when they kept running constantly.
{{rule|8em}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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|Title=''[[Scott's Last Expedition]]''
|Language=en
|Volume=[[Scott's Last Expedition/Volume 2|Volume II]]
|Author=[[Author:Robert Falcon Scott|Robert Falcon Scott]]
|Translator=
|Editor=[[Author:Leonard Huxley|Leonard Huxley]]
|Illustrator=
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|Publisher=Smith, Elder &amp; Co.
|Address=London
|Year=1913
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|LCCN=
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1=&quot;Cover&quot;
2to4=&quot;–&quot;
5=&quot;Half-title&quot;
6to7=&quot;–&quot;
8=&quot;Frontispiece&quot;
9to10=&quot;–&quot;
11=&quot;Title&quot;
12=&quot;–&quot;
13to24=&quot;roman&quot;
13=&quot;5&quot;
25=&quot;1&quot;
27=&quot;Pl.1&quot;
28=&quot;–&quot;
29=&quot;3&quot;
31=&quot;Pl.2&quot;
32=&quot;–&quot;
33=&quot;5&quot;
35=&quot;Pl.3&quot;
36=&quot;–&quot;
37=&quot;7&quot;
63to64=&quot;–&quot;
65=&quot;Col.Pl.1&quot;
66=&quot;–&quot;
67=&quot;33&quot;
73=&quot;–&quot;
74=&quot;Pl.4&quot;
75=&quot;39&quot;
77=&quot;Pl.5&quot;
78=&quot;–&quot;
79=&quot;41&quot;
101=&quot;–&quot;
102=&quot;Col.Pl.2&quot;
103to104=&quot;–&quot;
105=&quot;63&quot;
111to112=&quot;–&quot;
113=&quot;Col.Pl.3&quot;
114=&quot;–&quot;
115=&quot;69&quot;
119=&quot;Pl.6&quot;
120=&quot;–&quot;
121=&quot;73&quot;
125=&quot;Map1&quot;
126=&quot;–&quot;
127=&quot;77&quot;
129=&quot;–&quot;
130=&quot;Pl.7&quot;
131=&quot;79&quot;
135=&quot;Pl.8&quot;
136=&quot;–&quot;
137=&quot;83&quot;
143=&quot;–&quot;
144=&quot;Pl.9&quot;
145=&quot;89&quot;
147=&quot;–&quot;
148=&quot;Pl.10&quot;
149=&quot;91&quot;
151=&quot;Pl.11&quot;
152=&quot;–&quot;
153=&quot;93&quot;
155=&quot;Pl.12&quot;
156=&quot;–&quot;
157=&quot;95&quot;
159=&quot;Pl.13&quot;
160=&quot;–&quot;
161=&quot;97&quot;
163=&quot;Pl.14&quot;
164=&quot;–&quot;
165=&quot;99&quot;
169=&quot;Pl.15&quot;
170=&quot;–&quot;
171=&quot;103&quot;
179=&quot;Pl.16&quot;
180=&quot;–&quot;
181=&quot;111&quot;
183=&quot;Pl.17&quot;
184=&quot;–&quot;
185=&quot;113&quot;
189=&quot;Pl.18&quot;
190=&quot;–&quot;
191=&quot;117&quot;
195=&quot;–&quot;
196=&quot;Pl.19&quot;
197=&quot;121&quot;
199=&quot;Pl.20&quot;
200=&quot;–&quot;
201=&quot;123&quot;
203=&quot;–&quot;
204=&quot;Pl.21&quot;
205=&quot;125&quot;
207=&quot;Pl.22&quot;
208=&quot;–&quot;
209=&quot;127&quot;
434=&quot;–&quot;
435=&quot;291&quot;
437=&quot;Pl.46&quot;
438=&quot;–&quot;
439=&quot;293&quot;
443=&quot;Pl.47&quot;
444=&quot;–&quot;
445=&quot;297&quot;
457=&quot;Pl.48&quot;
458=&quot;–&quot;
459=&quot;309&quot;
467=&quot;Pl.49&quot;
468=&quot;–&quot;
469=&quot;317&quot;
479=&quot;Pl.50&quot;
480=&quot;–&quot;
481=&quot;327&quot;
485=&quot;–&quot;
486=&quot;Col.Pl.5&quot;
487to488=&quot;–&quot;
489=&quot;331&quot;
493=&quot;Pl.51&quot;
494=&quot;–&quot;
495=&quot;335&quot;
497to498=&quot;–&quot;
499=&quot;Col.Pl.6&quot;
500=&quot;–&quot;
501=&quot;337&quot;
503=&quot;Pl.52&quot;
504=&quot;–&quot;
505=&quot;339&quot;
513=&quot;Pl.53&quot;
514=&quot;–&quot;
515=&quot;347&quot;
517to518=&quot;–&quot;
519=&quot;Col.Pl.7&quot;
520=&quot;–&quot;
521=&quot;349&quot;
523=&quot;Pl.54&quot;
524=&quot;–&quot;
525=&quot;351&quot;
527=&quot;Pl.55&quot;
528=&quot;–&quot;
529=&quot;353&quot;
531=&quot;Pl.56&quot;
532=&quot;–&quot;
533=&quot;355&quot;
535=&quot;Pl.57&quot;
536=&quot;–&quot;
537=&quot;357&quot;
539=&quot;Map4&quot;
540=&quot;–&quot;
541=&quot;359&quot;
551=&quot;Pl.58&quot;
552=&quot;–&quot;
553=&quot;369&quot;
557=&quot;Pl.59&quot;
558=&quot;–&quot;
559=&quot;373&quot;
569=&quot;Pl.60&quot;
570=&quot;–&quot;
571=&quot;383&quot;
573to574=&quot;–&quot;
575=&quot;Col.Pl.8&quot;
576=&quot;–&quot;
577=&quot;385&quot;
760to765=&quot;–&quot;
766=&quot;Cover&quot;
 /&gt;
|Volumes=[[Index:Scott's Last Expedition, Volume 1.djvu|I]] • [[Index:Scott's Last Expedition, Volume 2.djvu|II]]
|Remarks={{Page:Scott's Last Expedition, Volume 2.djvu/13}}
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==Works==
* ''[[Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena]]'' (1844)
** Second Edition (1845) {{HTlink|000607034}}
** Third Edition {{smaller|&quot;Revised and expanded by her daughter, [[Author:Jane Elizabeth Balcombe Johnstone|Mrs. Charles Johnstone]]&quot;}} (1873) {{HTlink|008883830}}

{{PD-old|1871}}
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{{xxl|GREGG SPEED STUDIES}}
{{dhr|5}}
{{sc|by}}

JOHN ROBERT GREGG

{{dhr|5}}

[[File:The Gregg Publishing Company Logo (1917).png|100px]]

{{dhr|5}}

THE GREGG PUBLISHING COMPANY

{{sm|NEW YORK {{gap|2}} CHICAGO {{gap|2}} SAN FRANCISCO}}
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{c|{{asc|CHARLES L. SWEM}}&lt;br&gt;
{{sm|{{sc|Personal Stenographer and Official Reporter to President Wilson.&lt;br&gt;Study the Writing Position Mr. Swem Assumes at the Desk}}}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <minor />
      <comment>archiving 1 section from [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions]] (after section [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions/Archives/2025#Is_GNU_FDL_the_same_as_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_License?|Is_GNU_FDL_the_same_as_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_License?]])</comment>
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== [[Address by Sergey Lavrov, Foreign Minister of the Russian Federation, at the 63rd Session of the UN General Assembly, 27 September 2008]] ==
{{closed/s|Replaced by a copyright free version.}}
{{tl|PD-RU-exempt}}, as far as translations are concerned, only puts official translation in the public domain. However, this, taken from [https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/1613310/?lang=en], is explicitly marked as an unofficial translation, has no mention of PD status, and has, at the bottom of the page: {{tqi|© The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:53, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

:The official UN record of the speech is here: https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/638006/files/A_63_PV.14-EN.pdf?ln=en which as an official record the copyright should be {{tl|PD-UN}}. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::That translation is very different ([https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:ComparePages?page1=Page%3ASandbox.djvu%2F1&amp;rev1=14755371&amp;page2=Address+by+Sergey+Lavrov%2C+Foreign+Minister+of+the+Russian+Federation%2C+at+the+63rd+Session+of+the+UN+General+Assembly%2C+27+September+2008&amp;rev2=14755212&amp;action=&amp;unhide= diff]), but nevertheless, we can replace the current one by it. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:48, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{done|done}}, '''Withdrawing'''. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:55, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:12, 2 January 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Hawaii approved for national crop insurance program]] ==
{{closed/s|Deleted: under a non-commercial license}}
This is the work of a state government, and I'm not clear on if the State of Hawaii releases its news releases without copyright. The website terms of service states: &quot;Duplication or use of any content from this web site for commercial purposes or in any manner likely to give the impression of official approval by the State of Hawaiʻi is prohibited.&quot; Wikisource is non-commercial, and I don't think we give the impression of official approval; regardless, thought I ought to post it here. [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 07:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

:{{vd}}: We are not commercial, but we only accept works which allow sharing under CC-BY-SA conditions, which allow commercial use. See [[WS:COPY#definition]]. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:55, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: Clear {{vd}} per original nomination and Alien's comment. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 02:58, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:38, 16 January 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Nelson Mandela's inaugural address]] ==
{{closed/s|Deleted: public domain status not proven}}
I do not see a reason why this 1994 speech should be PD. The stated licenses, {{tl|PD-SA-speech-1996}} (which is anyway not a US tag) and {{tl|PD-1996}}, do not apply, as they both require the work to be published before 1989. It does not fall under {{tl|PD-SAGov}}, because it is a speech, and not an &quot;official text&quot; &quot;of a legislative, administrative or legal nature&quot;. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:38, 19 January 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Law of the Republic of Indonesia Number 3 of 2022 on The Nation's Capital]] ==
{{closed/s|Deleted: public domain status not proven}}
No source or license is given for this translation, and I cannot find its text anywhere on the web, so I do not see any reason why we could assume it is PD. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:01, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

:{{vd}} per nomination. In any event, this seems incomplete, only having the preamble and first two article, whilst the version here - https://jdih.bappenas.go.id/data/peraturan/2022uu003Eng.pdf - has 45 articles. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:10, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:43, 19 January 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Debbie Does Dallas]] ==

{{closed/s|Kept per [[c:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Debbie Does Dallas]], which was withdrawn by nominator (and from available votes, would have passed consensus at Commons anyhow). [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:56, 23 January 2025 (UTC)}}
Though the video portion of the film is in the public domain, the soundtrack, from which most of this transcription is sourced, possibly is not. This film was first published in 1978, which means that it is governed by the [[Copyright Act of 1976]]. That act required a copyright notice (or registration within five years) only for material that &quot;can be visually perceived&quot;. The soundtrack (which is excluded from the act's definition of &quot;sound recording&quot; because it accompanies a motion picture, and thus does not have to follow the formalities that were required for sound recordings) is heard, not seen, so it is not visually perceived. For those that have access, this is talked about in ''2 Nimmer on Copyright § 7.06''. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 07:46, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

: &quot;Whenever a work protected under this title is published in the United States or elsewhere by authority of the copyright owner, a notice of copyright as provided by this section shall be placed on all publicly distributed copies from which the work can be visually perceived, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.&quot; The work is the motion picture, defined as &quot;‘‘Motion pictures’’ are audiovisual works consisting of a series of related images which, when shown in succession, impart an impression of motion, together with accompanying sounds, if any.&quot; An audiovisual work can be &quot;visually perceived&quot;, so it needs a notice. If it doesn't have the notice, the audiovisual work loses its copyright.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 08:00, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
: If not, then it's not covered by copyright law. Copyright law covers motion pictures and sound recordings as works, not soundtracks of motion pictures. It has no separate existence in the law.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 08:05, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Prospectprospekt}} I strongly suggest this should be brought up at Commons if there is a concern about a film's contents, especially if they're aside from the dialogue etc. The soundtrack, since there were no lyrical songs, is not replicated in our transcription of the film, and the video of the film is used on several projects, and while I can't give you a summary right now as I have to run in a minute, Commons has precedent already to keep movies of that description. The gist of it is that audiovisual works don't have copyrighted soundtracks, unless the soundtracks were copyrighted separately (such as in a music sheet or record published beforehand). [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 11:50, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
:: (And even if a few of the soundtracks were copyrighted separately, they are such a minimal focus in a film focused on sexual arousal that I feel like some of that could be overlooked as ''de minimis'', but it's not my call.) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 11:52, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
:I have started a discussion on Commons at [[:c:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Debbie Does Dallas]]. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 21:34, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

:{{vote keep}}. The courts seem to be clear on this. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 07:30, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 14:56, 23 January 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[To Restore America]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
This 1976 Reagan campaign speech was not made during his tenure either as governor or president (see the row in [[w:Speeches and debates of Ronald Reagan#Speeches]]), and so it is not {{tl|PD-USgov}} as claimed. I do not see another reason why this would be PD. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 14:13, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 17:30, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' It [https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/sites/default/files/pdf_documents/library/exhibits/campaign/020400462-001.pdf was published] without a copyright notice. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:33, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
** Unfortunately, this seems quite like the case of [[Estate of Martin Luther King, Jr., Inc. v. CBS, Inc.]]. It'd be nice if CBS had fought that, but the main difference is that Reagan didn't immediately register it (though he did register a book of speeches a few years later that may include it).--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 03:49, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
**:{{Re|Prosfilaes}} I really respect your grasp of the copyright issues, but may I ask you to explain the objection in more detail? Why exactly is the linked publication without copyright notice not enough? --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:33, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
**::Prior to 1978, copyright works published in the US, had to be registered and comply with certain formalities such as having discernible copyright notices when &quot;published&quot;, or exhibited.  In certain instances an orally delivered speech however could still be in copyright, as they were typically transcribed and published in fixed form, as I understand it.
**::[[Special:Contributions/88.97.96.89|88.97.96.89]] 11:39, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
**:: MLK did pretty much the same thing; provided copies of his speech without notice to the media before his speech. That was ruled a limited publication.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:50, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
**:::I see, thanks for explanation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 16:26, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 16:12, 19 February 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Template:KR-political-speech]] ==
{{closed/s|result=The template and the template-related works deleted.}}
On kowikisource, we decieded to delete this template. Korean copyright act does not allow the use of speeches and statements by the same author after compilation, so derivative works are not permitted. Since the template had been in place for over 15 years, I had no doubts. Additionally, other political speeches from Korea, which are not classified as laws, treaties, etc., should also be deleted. ([[:ko:위키문헌:사랑방#&amp;#123;&amp;#123;정치적 연설&amp;#125;&amp;#125;의 자유로운 사용과 관련하여|related talk]]) --[[User:Namoroka|Namoroka]] ([[User talk:Namoroka|talk]]) 13:19, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:Here is a list of the works using this license:
:*[[Remarks by President Moon Jae-in Following Signing of the Panmunjeom Declaration for Peace, Prosperity and Unification of the Korean Peninsula]]
:*[[Welcoming Remarks by President Moon Jae-in at Dinner for the 2018 Inter-Korean Summit]]
:*[[Address by President Moon Jae-in on the May 26 Inter-Korean Summit]]
:*[[Statement by President Moon Jae-in at a Joint Press Conference Following the 2018 Inter-Korean Summit in Pyeongyang]]
:*[[Address by President Moon Jae-in at May Day Stadium in Pyeongyang]]
:*[[Translation:2024 Declaration of Martial Law in the Republic of Korea]]
:--[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::I changed the license for [[Translation:2024 Declaration of Martial Law in the Republic of Korea]] since original Korean script was released in {{tl|KOGL Type 1}} by the government. All other articles should be deleted.--[[User:Namoroka|Namoroka]] ([[User talk:Namoroka|talk]]) 12:21, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:11, 22 February 2025 (UTC)--[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 16:12, 19 February 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Open letter to Mikhail Gorbachev (1990)]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
No evidence of being in the public domain or released under a free license. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 23:08, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 16:29, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
* {{comment}} This item needs a {{tl|cv}} tag. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 22:30, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I've done so, and in general when a page here or at [[WS:PD]] isn't tagged you can tag it yourself. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:36, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:18, 22 February 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Constitution of Romania (1965)]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
English translation [https://books.google.co.il/books?id=boKOAAAAMAAJ&amp;printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false published] in 1975 in Romania, so most probably still copyrighted. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:35, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
: {{comment}} Wouldn't a constitution be an [[:Template:PD-EdictGov|edict of government]] and therefore in the public domain? -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 06:45, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
::Of course, the original Romanian version is the edict of government, but we are discussing the English translation of the document. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:32, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
::Note that it looks like there is a US Government translation in JPRS 48811 if someone can get a hold of it. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 14:37, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
:(added {{tl|cv}}.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:35, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 22 February 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[The Call to Jihad by the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
The only source it cites is a copyrighted book from 2002. Even assuming that the author, Ahmed Rashid, didn't translate it, I couldn't find any evidence that the Islamic Movement published their works under a suitable license. [[User:Norbillian|Norbillian]] ([[User talk:Norbillian|talk]]) 11:46, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:04, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

:Added a missing {{tl|cv}}. Please remember to tag all works you bring here or at [[WS:PD]] accordingly. Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:34, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:36, 22 February 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== Modern UK Ministerial / Government Speeches ==
{{closed/s|result=No action needed.}}
Given we determined above that ministerial speeches aren't covered by the OGL unless published with an explicit statement licensing it (i.e. the government waiver doesn't apply), I think we need to tag and delete any other such speech. For example, [[Author:David Cameron]], [[Author:Theresa Mary May]] etc. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:44, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

:And other documents too  this document lacks an OGL license: [https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/793058/PM_letter_to_His_Excellency_Mr_Donald_Tusk__1_.pdf] . My understanding is that now &quot; Per my understanding the OGL applies to works that are explicitly stated to be licensed under OGL.&quot; which this document isn't. 18:47, 22 January 2025 (UTC) [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:47, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
::The above linked Letter to Donald Tusk was published through the page: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pm-letter-to-donald-tusk-19-august-2019 , where the OGL licence is explicitely given. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:01, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I mentioned exactly the same above re the National Archives &quot;All content is available under the Open Government Licence v3.0, except where otherwise stated&quot; but that was deemed insufficient, https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11021603 and unproven as &quot;not explicitly stated.&quot; [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 20:59, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah, I have apparently misunderstood the situation in the discussion above. Will have a look at it again. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:13, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::As an example: [[David Cameron: First Speech as Prime Minister]] is credited to YouTube, not gov.uk. Note it predates the OGL, so it couldn't have been published first with the license. Maybe it is post 2011 works that are covered? So [[Gordon Brown: First Speech as Prime Minister]] as well? Is it we need to find that the transcript was actually on gov.uk after 2011? I am trying to understand which speeches are ODL and which are not and need to be deleted. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:38, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::So, I had a look at the [[#Speeches by James Chichester-Clark]] again. Both works were sourced from The Times and in the discussion there was nowhere a link to the works being previously published somewhere with the OGL licence stated. That is why I closed it as public domain status not proven. Now you have provided a link to https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11021603 , but I cannot see the links with this licence there anywhere either. If there are any doubts, I can reopen that discussion (and temporarily undelete both works too). --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:25, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::The decision was made that we need to track the publishing history of every speech or document to find an &quot;explicit event,&quot; (lets say &quot;text or document posted on gov.uk&quot; counts, as opposed to having a license statement on the document). If the PM speaks and it wasn't posted, it's not under the OGL  The two speeches above I linked are sourced to YouTube (here Russia Today, I checked), not gov.uk. How is that any different than linking to ''The Times''? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 20:08, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::To summarize:
::::::::1. Previously we relied on the government waiver, &quot;Crown copyright information previously available for re-use under waiver conditions can be re-used under the terms of the Open Government Licence. Information covered by waiver conditions included: ... Text of ministerial speeches and articles.&quot; This was not considered &quot;explicitly&quot; licensing the text of a ministerial speech.
::::::::2. That means every single document needs a check for some sort of &quot;explicit&quot; event, i.e. any Crown Copyright content may be copyrighted unless it had clear sourcing, e.g. any PM speech may be copyrighted if someone never actually published the text to gov.uk. 
::::::::3. I pointed to several documents that lacked clear sourcing to a website that was under the OGL. There is the need to update the sourcing of every single of one of these documents to point to the gov.uk version or link to the document to make clear that they were actually released. 
::::::::[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:14, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
:See the discussion here [[Wikisource:Copyright_discussions/Archives/2012-02#David_Cameron:_First_Speech_as_Prime_Minister]] which mentions the exact same waiver that was rejected above. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 11:43, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
::Let's take them one by one:
::# Speeches by James Chichester-Clark were published in The Times and nobody found them published anywhere with the OGL release --&gt; We cannot consider them released under this licence.
::# Letter to Donald Tusk was published on a government web page with an explicit OGL release note [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pm-letter-to-donald-tusk-19-august-2019] --&gt; It was released under the OGL license.
::# Cameron's speech was published on a government web page with an explicit OGL release note [https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/david-camerons-speech-outside-10-downing-street-as-prime-minister] --&gt; It was released under the OGL license.
::--[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:26, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
:::That is exactly my point the whole time, we need to verify every speech or document was posted to gov.uk after that statement was posted and ensure they are linked. We can't just assume PM gave it a speech, stick OGL, like was the previous precedent. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:37, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:59, 22 February 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Rules of Procedure on the Organisation and Activity of the Presidency of the Central Committee of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
The Serbo-Croatian original from c1969 was created by the League of Communists of Yugoslavia, which was a political party, and thus it does not fall under {{tl|PD-EdictGov}}. Most probably copyrighted.

See also [[User_talk:TheUzbek#Rules of Procedure on the Organisation and Activity of the Presidency of the Central Committee of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia]]. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:17, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

:Added a missing {{tl|cv}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:33, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:03, 22 February 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== Copyright Great Britain 1923; Copyright United States 1925 ==
{{closed/s|result=The discussed Raggedy Ann's Alphabet Book is in the public domain in its home country (UK) and all its contents can be uploaded to Commons.}}
[[Raggedy Ann's Alphabet Book]] ([[Index:Raggedy Anns Alphabet-1925.djvu]]) it was published in United States and printed in 1925; it also has a copyright notice for Great Britain which is 1923.

While the &quot;rascal&quot; in me wants to say that Great Britain did not exist in 1923; the adult who is driving wants to know if maybe I need to upload the images for this book here (at wikisource).  

The author is born in the United States and the publisher is in the United States.  I don't know why they mentioned Great Britain at all.  Thanks, for the looksee.--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 18:17, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

:As the first copyright was in the UK, we can probably assume that the UK is its home country.
:The author (who is also the illustrator) died in 1938, so went PD-UK in 1938+70=2008.
:So normally it can all go to commons. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:46, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
::By the way, about your comment about Great Britain, physically, the island has existed for thousands of years. However, for copyright purposes, it may be that, as this was after the Republic of Island had left the United Kingdom, they weren't sure how to refer to the remainder. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:46, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:51, 23 February 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Paris Agreement]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Kept as PD-UN.}}
I don't have an argument against, but I don't know what template to use, so can someone please prove this is in the public domain—especially now that Trump signed an executive order to withdraw from this agreement? Or we can delete if there is no argument. Thanks. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 02:56, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

:Created under the auspices of the UNFCC. Per https://unfccc.int/this-site/terms-of-use &quot;All official texts, data and documents, including low resolution webcast transmissions, are in the public domain and may be freely downloaded, copied and printed provided no change to the content is introduced, and the source is duly acknowledged.&quot; They are also published in UNTS and other UN documents etc. https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280458f37&amp;clang=_en. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:13, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
::Despite the random invocation of &quot;public domain&quot;, those sound like no-derivatives terms to me. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 06:32, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Are you sure that the invocation of public domain, and not the restrictions, are the part that is &quot;random&quot;? If, for instance, a law or policy puts them in the public domain, then the mere descriptive text dropped randomly into a web page would not override that. (I have no idea which is which, my question is whether you or anyone in this discussion does.) -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 06:47, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Then there is the narrower scope of just the agreement (as opposed to all official documents). Here is the UN Doc version of it: https://documents.un.org/doc/undoc/gen/g16/015/38/pdf/g1601538.pdf which would seem to meet: &quot;Official records (proceedings of conferences,&quot; or &quot;United Nations documents issued with a UN symbol&quot; requirements for {{tl|PD-UN}}. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:14, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
::If it has been created under the auspices of the UNFCC, then I think the conditions set by the UNFCC (non-derivative) must apply. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:58, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::If it has been created under the auspices of the UN, then I think the conditions set by the UN ({{tl|PD-UN}}) must apply. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:19, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
::::We need some definite proof that it has been fully released, in case of uncertainty we cannot accept it. Paris Agreement was adopted at the 2015 UN Climate Change Conference, and these conferences are made under the auspices of the UNFCCC. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:16, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::https://documents.un.org/doc/undoc/gen/g16/015/38/pdf/g1601538.pdf meets condition 1, (Proceeding of conferences) and 2. (Document released under the UN seal) of {{tl|PD-UN}}. What additional release is required per the terms of {{tl|PD-UN}}? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 22:22, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::If the only documents from the UN in the public domain are those that have an explicit &quot;This document is released into the Public domain by the author&quot; statement what is the even point of that license? Just stick {{tl|PD-release}} on it if that is the case and delete every other UN document that doesn't have the &quot;explicit release&quot; statement. The UNFCCC is part of the UN (&quot;We are part of the UN System&quot; [https://unfccc.int/about-us/about-the-secretariat]), run out of the UN Campus Bonn https://unric.org/en/unbonn-org/ (see &quot;UN organizations in Bonn&quot;). If we are going to say A UNESCO conference is under the auspicies of UNESCO not the UN so PD-UN doesn't apply. the UN Security Council is under the auspices of the UN Security Council not the UN so PD-UN doesn't apply, the UN General Assembly is under the auspcies of the UN General Assembly so PD-UN doesn't apply, again what is the point of PD-UN? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:50, 23 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::OK. Having looked at the UNFCCC's licensing policy in more detail, it seems that it applies only to their website and not to everything they produce, and so I agree that their works published elsewhere under UN can be licensed as PD-UN. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:32, 23 February 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:52, 2 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== The Skylark of Space ==
{{closed/s|result=Work not elligible to be included to Wikisource until 2042.}}
I think that this: https://exhibits.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals/catalog?exhibit_id=copyrightrenewals&amp;search_field=search_title&amp;q=The+Skylark+of+Space means that I should not upload my scanned {{wdl|Q132363851|1947 version}} anywhere.

Am I right about this? (Happy VD!)--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 20:28, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

:Yes - the book version will be in copyright until 2042.
:The original magazine version, published in 1928 is now in public domain. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:03, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::There are copies of the relevant issues of Amazing Stories in Commons - something else to work on ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:08, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:58, 2 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Democratic Party platform, 1992]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
I can't see how this might be in public domain, (unless it was released and where would that be declared ?) The source claims copyright, though I am not sure if that is right. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:43, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

:In principle, the 1992 physical publication by the DNC might have a release, but I doubt it. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:01, 20 February 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:39, 4 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

==Undelete [[Industrial Society and Its Future]]==
{{closed/s|result=The work is elligible to be hosted at WS, but this particular transcription was not undeleted for quality reasons. New transcription started.}}
The last discussion of this work was closed in favor of deletion because of some uncertainty about the contents of an auction. After the arrest of the author of this work, he pled guilty to a number of crimes and was ordered to pay some $15 million in restitution. In furtherance of providing this sum of money, the government ordered an auction of the author’s property. The question was whether the property involved in the auction did or did not include the copyright in the work. If it did, then the copyright is owned by some private party. If it did not, then the copyright remained the author’s property, and the author later released it under a free license (or at least purported to do so). The contents of the auction are to be found in court documents: the categorized contents of the government auction were attached to the order in [[United States v. Kaczynski (446 F.Supp.2d 1146)#List|''United States v. Kaczynski'', 446 F. Supp. 2d 1146]]. This list is the list of which items were sold at the auction. It had to include every item which the government intended to sell, because the Court of Appeals had ordered a plan for the sale of the items to be made to afford ample notice to all parties involved. Importantly, this list does ''not'' include the copyright in any of the author’s works. Therefore, it is clear that only ''physical property'', not intellectual property, was sold. Thus, the author retained the copyright, and the later release was valid. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:36, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
: I'll buy that.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 22:38, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
::Makes sense to me. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:02, 20 February 2025 (UTC)
:::The deleted text looks like some poor copypaste. While it can be surely undeleted, a new transcription might be a better solution if somebody decided to make it, e. g. from https://www.newspapers.com/image/822408649. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:45, 23 February 2025 (UTC)
::::But we need to undelete first, no? Otherwise you get into trouble for violating policy by recreating previously deleted works. While recreating a work deleted for formatting reasons by proofreading is defensible, one for copyright is easy to point to for violating policy. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 19:01, 23 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Do we need to undelete first ? Can't this discussion decide to create the page afresh from a scan-backed version ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:51, 24 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::No, we do not. Though it was deleted for copyright reasons, now we can reject it for other reasons. And if there is consensus that it is a free work, we can add it anew from a different source. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:04, 24 February 2025 (UTC)
::*[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]]: I have already scanned the original from microfilm, so if this discussion concludes in favor of reversing the previous consensus as to copyright, I will upload and proofread that copy. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:29, 24 February 2025 (UTC)
::*:{{Re|TE(æ)A,ea.}} I am going to close this discussion as the work not undeleted for the reasons of transcription quality, but generally elligible to be hosted here. I think you can proceed with the work. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:08, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
::*:*[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]]: I have started a transcription project [[Index:Industrial Society and Its Future.pdf|here]], based on my scan. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 03:22, 4 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:34, 4 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Letter of resignation from Trinity United Church of Christ]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted for missing license--[[User:Jusjih|Jusjih]] ([[User talk:Jusjih|talk]]) 23:22, 8 March 2025 (UTC)}}
A letter from Barack Obama to his former church written during the campaign season in 2008. This does not seem to be an official work of his as a Senator, and I can find no evidence that he put this work under a free licence. —[[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 07:11, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

:Other of the [[Author:Barack Obama/Letters]] might also have copyright problems. [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 07:12, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{Re|FPTI}} Agree. Do you think you could list the other problematic letters here too? --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:10, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I would say almost all of them, but reading through them I see he advocated for debates to be published under free licenses in 2008, such as in [[Barack Obama's Letter regarding the Open Debate Coalition]] and [[Barack Obama's Letter to Howard Dean]]. This makes me think he might have done the same at his website or something. Will have to look more into it. [[User:FPTI|FPTI]] ([[User talk:FPTI|talk]]) 07:55, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jusjih|Jusjih]] ([[User talk:Jusjih|talk]]) 23:25, 8 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== Undelete [[Constitution of Serbia]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Not undeleted, public domain status of the translation not proven.}}
[[User:No.cilepogača]] has challenged the deletion of the text of [[Constitution of Serbia]], see [[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek#Constitution of Serbia]], so I decided to start this undeletion discussion. For the related copyright discussion see [[WS:Copyright discussions/Archives/2024#Constitution of Serbia]].{{pbr}}No.cilepogača has provided a link to an &quot;official&quot; publication of the English text at https://propisi.pravno-informacioni-sistem.rs/content/800. However, there is only a small part of the text, not the full text, which is behind a paywall accessible for paying subscribers only. At the bottom of the linked page there is a copyright note: ©2009–2005  — Службени гласник РС. The publisher Sluzhbeni Glasnik seems to be a business company (aktivno privredno drushtvo) according to https://www.slglasnik.com/sites/default/files/pdf/o_nama/podaci-o-preduzecu.pdf. There is no sign of the English translation having been published under a free licence and so I still do not see any proof of the English translation of the constitution being in the public domain. [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:30, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

:''aktivno privredno društvo'' just means it's just active enterprise. Its legal form is ''javno preduzeće'' (state-owned enterprise). [[User:No.cilepogača|No.cilepogača]] ([[User talk:No.cilepogača|talk]]) 13:19, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

::Though surely that is irrelevant if they haven't actually published the full text of the English translation under a free licence ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:02, 23 February 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:42, 9 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[1973 Royal Command Convoking NPA]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
No indication of the source of the translation, no sign of that text when I search. The original contributor included &quot;The document is translated from the Thai version by Chanathip Pinngoen, first-year student (30 May 2008) of Thammasat University's Faculty of Law&quot;, though that text was later removed by another. (It may be that the translation was by the original contributor, but I don't see that was stated, and cannot see that we are likely to be able to confirm that.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:42, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:25, 11 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== Lucy Etheldred Broadwood ==
{{closed/s|result=Undeleted because copyright expired. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 06:11, 14 March 2025 (UTC)}}
Per [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions/Archives/2023#Lucy Etheldred Broadwood]], [[Lucy Etheldred Broadwood]] and related pages should have been undeleted at the start of this year. &lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]&lt;/span&gt; (&lt;span class=&quot;nickname&quot;&gt;Pigsonthewing&lt;/span&gt;); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]&lt;/span&gt; 20:53, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}} —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 05:04, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:40, 16 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Address to the American Society of Corporate Secretaries]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
Seeing as copyright in Pakistan lasts the author's life + 70 years, this work is still under copyright there until 2028 as the author died in 1958. This means that this speech couldn't gave entered the public domain there prior to URAA, meaning, in turn, it won't be in the public domain in the United States for a long while. [[User:Norbillian|Norbillian]] ([[User talk:Norbillian|talk]]) 11:54, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

:Given that the speech was delivered in the US, it is likely that it counts as a U.S. origin work for copyright purposes, so {{tl|PD-US-no-notice}} may apply rather than the URAA. E.g. if the text was published by the society in their monthly publication or something. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:23, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

:: HathiTrust comes up with one volume when searching for &quot;my first experience of corporate secretaries at close quarters.&quot;, that is https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/003007685 , a 1994 Islamabad text. I'd like to see a usable source before publishing this, as speeches weren't publication. (https://www.patrasbokhari.com/content/address-american-society-corporate-secretaries has an online copy, and is possibly the immediate source. No printed source, though.)

::: If we keep the author page, we should move it; Wikipedia gives his name as &quot;Syed Ahmed Shah Bokhari (Urdu: سید احمد شاہ بخاری)&quot; and HathiTrust as &quot;Pat̤ras, Aḥmad Shāh Buk̲h̲ārī, 1898-1958.&quot; (and no promises the latter came through correctly.) https://www.patrasbokhari.com/content/background-pen-name-patras says Patras is a pen name and gives Pir Syed Ahmed Shah Bokhari as his full name. He published “Ancient Greek Rulers and Their Thinking” in 1919, but I don't know whether that was in English; reading his biography, it's entirely plausible he's published in English before 1930.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 01:48, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Note that there are two author pages - one spelt Patras and the other Patrus. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:07, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

: As a note: edit summaries are important. Edit summaries when you're proposing to delete a work are essential, so they stand out to any seeing it on a watchlist.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 01:55, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:33, 23 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Address in Books and World Culture]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
Published 1958, so is not PD-US as claimed. Not PD-UN as claimed either, as it has nothing to do with the UN. I do not see another reason why this would be PD or compatible. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 11:59, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

:Similar to above, we need a source to evaluate, and see if {{tl|PD-US-no-notice}} or {{tl|PD-US-no-renewal}} applies as a U.S. origin work. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:26, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Delete.''' According to [https://patrasbokhari.com/content/books-and-world-culture this Web-site], the only source for the text, it was first published in ''Approaches to the Oriental Classics'', which [https://exhibits.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals/catalog/RE332342 is copyrighted]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:03, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
*:According to wikipedia, he was &quot;Undersecretary of the UN, Head of Information&quot; but would that make it a UK work ? The user created three works, this and the one above and one which was a UN press conference. Also they created [[Author:Patrus Bokhari]] as a duplicate of [[Author:Patras Bokhari]]. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:27, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
*::Even if so, per {{tl|PD-UN}} we would need an official UN source for it that makes it an official record or an official UN document. Merely being at a UN Press conference isn;t sufficient. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:41, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:33, 23 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Risk is the Hair that holds the Tun]] ==
{{closed/s|Speedied per [[WS:CSD#G2]]: already deleted last year as copyrighted. First published 1945, so nothing has changed.}}
I'm pretty sure this poem is copyrighted. It was first published in 1945 (see [[wikipedia:List of Emily Dickinson poems#Table]]), so it's not going to be public domain until 2041, assuming U.S. copyright law doesn't change before then. This was also previously deleted before due to [[Wikisource:Copyright_discussions/Archives/2024#Emily_Dickinson]]. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 05:24, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|Moved to WS:CV instead of PD as this is a copyright issue. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC)}}
*'''Speedy delete,''' under G2 as a re-creation of previously deleted material. [[User:Alien333|Alien]]: I have changed the tag on the page itself. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:18, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
*:Thanks, I indeed should have changed that tag when moving the discussion. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:32, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:33, 23 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== Constitutions of Syria (1953) and (1973) ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
[[Constitution of Syria (1953)]] and [[Constitution of Syria (1973)]]'s originals were surely {{tl|PD-EdictGov}}, but we have no translator information, and as english isn't one of the country's official languages, it seems unlikely to me that the constitution's source would be in english. The Middle East Journal, the source for (53) is marked © 1953 Middle East Institute, and does not indicate any translation information. (73) is published on UNHCR site, with a disclaimer on it that says {{tqi|Disclaimer: This is not a UNHCR publication}}, and as such is probably not eligible for {{tl|PD-UN}}. Does someone know why this would be PD? — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:38, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:52, 25 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

==Contemporarily published Lovecraft poems==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
I’ve been going through Lovecraft’s works which are held here and scan-backing them; so far, I have added his writings from two major amateur periodicals, and will be working on and off on works published in other obscure, scattered issues. I have also been looking through his Author: page, and have made the following list (only of poems, so far) of works which were published in modern, copyrighted collections.
*[[Arcadia (Lovecraft)]]
*[[Dead Passion's Flame]]
*[[On the Creation of Niggers]]
*[[The Poem of Ulysses, or The Odyssey]]
*[[Tosh Bosh]]
*[[Waste Paper]]
The index for the third poem should be deleted, as well; it is a manuscript, which was not published (and not even clearly Lovecraft’s, but that’s besides the point). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:10, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:Note that the copyvio template should be added ''after'' the header, not before.

:Do you have details of where these were first published ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:32, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]: That has never been the practice, so far as I am aware; the template blocks out the ''entire'' page, because it is placed at the very top. As for the original source, “Tosh Bosh” and “Waste Paper” were first published in ''A Winter Wish'', and the others in ''The Ancient Track''. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:50, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:You need to keep the header so that people know what the work is (and who wrote it). The template page says &quot;Add the template to the top of the work after the completion of {{tl|header}}&quot;. Whilst not particularly clear, what else can that mean ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:57, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
: So, what exactly ''is'' &quot;[[On the Creation of Niggers]]&quot;—something I ask because with over 2,000 page views per month, it is literally one of the most viewed works on the entire site? Was it a poem genuinely written by Lovecraft, or is there some confusion about this? If it ''was'' actually by him and was indeed written in 1912, it ''may'' be keepable as an ''unpublished'' work, since Lovecraft died in 1938, and the manuscript clearly credited him, didn't it? So that would mean it wasn't ''anonymous or pseudonymous'', which means that as an unpublished work it would follow the 70-year-PMA rule (apparently). If the poem ''is'' legitimate, in WS:PD terms it can be kept IMO since, though it was a rather bizarre work, it was the output of a clearly notable author.
: By the way, Wikipedia says on this matter that &quot;[[:w:H._P._Lovecraft#Earliest_recognition|in this period [Lovecraft] also wrote racist poetry]], including &quot;New-England Fallen&quot; and &quot;On the Creation of Niggers&quot;, but there is no indication that either were published during his lifetime.&quot; and cites &quot;Joshi 2010a, p. 138; de Camp 1975, p. 95.&quot; as its reference for that statement. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 06:11, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:: There's that source, and it seems that nobody familiar with the subject actually claims it's not his. There's a mimeographed copy, which implies to me that he did distribute freely without notice.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 08:23, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]]: It is only attributed to him, which is why the attribution is usually upheld; but there is no external evidence indicating that it is his poem. (Incidentally, “[[New England Fallen]]” ''is'' in the public domain.) The cut-off date for unpublished works was 2003 (according to the Hirtle chart), and ''The Ancient Track'' was first published in 2001, so that poem is indeed copyrighted. Wikipedia is certainly correct in saying that neither were published during his lifetime; “New England Fallen” was first seen in ''Beyond the Wall of Sleep'', a 1943 collection (with issues on the renewal end which let a few works enter the public domain), while ''The Ancient Track'' has no such copyright issues. [[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]]: I don’t think that’s true: only one copy is known to exist, which may not even have been made by Lovecraft, and none of his extant letters reference the poem at all. The mimeographed copy was likely made by someone else, even if Lovecraft did write the poem. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:13, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:The source of that document - https://repository.library.brown.edu/studio/item/bdr:425397/ - does say &quot;no copyright&quot; - but with no indication of the reason for that statement. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 17:55, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:*:*[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]: That same claim is made on all of their manuscripts of his works not published in his lifetime; for instance, [https://repository.library.brown.edu/studio/item/bdr:425382/ this poem], not published until the ''Selected Letters'' of the 1970s (and certainly copyrighted thereby), is marked as being without copyright in the same manner. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 18:50, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|TE(æ)A,ea.}} Ah! I forgot about the 2003 thing. So, then, {{vd}} all six poems, until evidence of public-domain status for any one of them surfaces. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:43, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:*[[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]]: I fixed your Wiki-link above to go to his Wikipedia article (and not his Author: page here). Also, did you mean ''six'' poems or only ''five''—I nominated six. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 21:02, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::: Yeah, I miscounted, thanks! [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 21:04, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:03, 28 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Constitution of Syria (2025)]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
The [https://constitutionnet.org/sites/default/files/2025-03/2025.03.13%20-%20Constitutional%20declaration%20%28English%29.pdf English translation] comes from https://constitutionnet.org/. There is no trace of the work being released into PD or under a free licence and also the site's [https://constitutionnet.org/terms-use tems of use] are not really favourable. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:43, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:55, 30 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Copyright Act (South Korea, 2004)]], etc. ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
* [[Copyright Act (South Korea, 2004)]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=2689]
* [[Copyright Act (South Korea, 2006)]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=2691] (The Korea Copyright Commission is credited as the source. No archived page is available. [https://www.copyright.or.kr/eng/laws-and-treaties/copyright-law/act.do Currnet page] provides the version translated by KLRI. I believe that we cannot use {{tl|PD-EdictGov}} for the translations done by the Korea Copyright Commission.)
* [[Act on Anti-Corruption and the Establishment and Operation of the Anti-Corruption &amp; Civil Rights Commission of the Republic of Korea]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=16137]
* [[Basic Employment Policy Act of the Republic of Korea]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=18099]
* [[Biotechnology Support Act of the Republic of Korea]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=22542]
* [[Computer Programs Protection Act]] [https://www.law.go.kr/LSW/lsInfoP.do?lsiSeq=59948&amp;chrClsCd=010203&amp;urlMode=engLsInfoR&amp;viewCls=engLsInfoR#0000]
* [[Translation:Commercial Act of South Korea]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=18857]
* [[Foreign Exchange Transaction Act of the Republic of Korea]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=30011]
* [[Foreigner's Land Acquisition Act]] [https://www.law.go.kr/LSW/lsInfoP.do?lsiSeq=1846&amp;chrClsCd=010203&amp;urlMode=engLsInfoR&amp;viewCls=engLsInfoR#0000]
* [[Government Organization Act of South Korea]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=323]
* [[Immigration Control Act of South Korea]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=784]
* [[National Security Act (South Korea, 2016)]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?hseq=39798&amp;lang=KOR]
* [[Patent Act of South Korea]] [https://www.law.go.kr/lsInfoP.do?lsiSeq=68810&amp;chrClsCd=010203&amp;urlMode=engLsInfoR&amp;viewCls=engLsInfoR#0000]
* [[Patent Act of South Korea]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=38891]
* [[Special Act on The May 18 Democratization Movement, etc.]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=39302]
* [[Trademark Act of South Korea]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=18985]
* [[Civil Act of South Korea]] [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?lang=KOR&amp;hseq=1049]

Please refer to the [[Wikisource:Copyright_discussions/Archives/2024#Pharmaceutical_Affairs_Act_of_South_Korea|previous discussion]]. If text is translated by Korea Legislation Research Institute (KLRI), it is copyrighted in both South Korea and the United States. Translations available on law.go.kr (or moj.go.kr, previously known as moleg.go.kr) are also translated by KLRI. --[[User:Namoroka|Namoroka]] ([[User talk:Namoroka|talk]]) 12:11, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:21, 30 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Presidential Proclamation of Sovereignty over Adjacent Seas]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
This is the letter (or just &quot;proclamation&quot;) written by [[Author:Syngman Rhee|Syngman Rhee]], not the law. I don't think this work falls under 'constitution, laws, treaties, decrees, ordinances and rules.' So cannot use {{tl|PD-KRGov}}. Original Korean text is also not in PD by 2035 since author died in 1965. Translation is also released in CC BY-NC-ND or KOGL BY-NC-ND. [https://web.archive.org/web/20180128132500/http://contents.nahf.or.kr/item/item.do?levelId=kj.d_0007_0020_0050. Archived link] --[[User:Namoroka|Namoroka]] ([[User talk:Namoroka|talk]]) 12:11, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:07, 30 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Constitution of Andorra]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
English translation copyrighted according to https://oxcon.ouplaw.com/display/10.1093/law:ocw/law-ocw-cd916.regGroup.1/law-ocw-cd916?rskey=OTzZjw&amp;result=832&amp;prd=OCW&amp;print -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:56, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:11, 31 March 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Kassaman]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
The national anthem of Algeria. The lyrics were written in 1955 by [[Author:Mufdi Zakariah|Mufdi Zakariah]], who died in 1977. Contrary to popular belief, national anthems are not necessarily in the public domain, either in their home country nor in the US. 

According to [[commons:Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Algeria]], the copyright would have expired in Algeria in 2002 (1977+25). If I understand correctly, this would have made it copyrighted in the US under URAA until 2027. Furthermore, according to [https://www.tsa-algerie.com/a-qui-appartiennent-les-droits-de-lhymne-national-qassaman/ this article], Zakariah's heirs transferred the copyright for Kassaman to the Algerian government in 2017. This, I believe, is sufficient evidence that there is no exemption for ''Kassaman'' in Algerian copyright law. And since a national anthem is not an edict of government, there is no exemption in US law either.

And finally there is the matter of translation. The English translation appears to be based on the translation in ''National Anthems of the World'' (1960), which is still under copyright. The text has been revised since then, but not fully rewritten, so IMO the translation we have is still copyvio. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 20:09, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:27, 10 April 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Dear Motherland]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
Specifically the translation. The same translation appears in ''Encyclopedia of National Anthems'' (2003), which credits the source as [http://www.kinldouhalov.net/republic/anthem.html this defunct website]. There is no copy of this page in the Wayback Machine, so I believe we must consider this to probably be copyvio. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 20:29, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:27, 10 April 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Children Prayer]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
This translation is copied from something that very likely copied it from Wikipedia. At any rate, the translation is not attributed to a PD source, and I haven't managed to find one for it. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:50, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

:{{vd}}. For reference, the translation on Wikipedia was originally copied from [https://islamiclyrics.net/special-collection/lab-pay-aati-hai-dua/ here], which only states &quot;English Translation By: Unknown Source&quot;. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:35, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:58, 13 April 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Cusco Declaration]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
As pointed out by [[User:Beardo]] on the [[Talk:Cusco Declaration|talk page]] of this work, the translation source is still unidentified. This English version should be assumed under copyright until a source is found that proves otherwise. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 12:45, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

:{{vd}} per nom —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:43, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:04, 13 April 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[El Gran Carlemany]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
National anthem of Andorra. The full translated text can be found only in modern publications or in various internet pages, without any sign of having been released under a free licence. (Besides, it is a compilation of two languages, the Catalan section does not belong to en.ws anyway) -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:28, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

:{{vd}} - our translation appears to have been copied from Wikipedia, where it was uploaded without a source on 20 June 2003. I can't find any prior copies of this translation, so it is ''possible'' that this is an original translation by the Wikipedia editor who uploaded it, but without confirmation of this we should delete it as copyvio IMO. —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:29, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:56, 17 April 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== Garet Garrett ==
{{closed/s|result=Question answered.}}
Hi all! I realize that [[Author:Garet Garrett|works]] prior to 1930 are not under copyright. But what about other years? After all, the author died over 70 years ago. [[User:Arxivist|Arxivist]] ([[User talk:Arxivist|talk]]) 16:57, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

:Refer to [[c:COM:HIRTLE]] for details, but in a nutshell:
:* if a governement edict, then {{tl|PD-EdictGov}}
:* if first published 1930-1977 without conforming with US formalities, then {{tl|PD-US-no-notice}}
:* if first published 1930-1963 and not renewed (use [https://exhibits.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals the stanford database] to check), then {{tl|PD-US-no-renewal}}
:* if first published 1930-1977 outside USA, and was PD in its home country in 1996, then {{tl|PD-1996}}
:There are a few rarer cases, but these are the 4 most common ones. In the case of the works by [[Author:Garet Garrett|Garet Garrett]] that we have, [[Manifesto for the Atomic Age]] is {{tl|PD-US-no-renewal}}. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:21, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you. These nuances are known. I thought that the conditions for authors after 70 years from death in the USA are a bit different. I guess I won't take any chances with upload of works after 1930 [[User:Arxivist|Arxivist]] ([[User talk:Arxivist|talk]]) 17:39, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:::For works created but not published until after 2002 by authors who died 70+ years ago, see {{tl|PD-old-US}}. But yes the copyright for works after 1930 can be quite messy, especially for international works and translations, aside from US Government works / free-licensed works which generally are clear. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:35, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:59, 17 April 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Kosovo is Serbia]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, not published under a licence compatible with licenses accepted by Wikisource.}}
The link to the source given on the talk page is dead and no other source that could confirm the translation being in the public domain can be found. In fact the full English translation cannot be found anywhere (just short quotations that could have been taken from our Wikisource page), so there are also considerable doubts whether it is in scope of Wikisource at all. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:25, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{comment}} There are two previous discussions on this work, neither without any useful information.  Both discussions are limited to adding a license template. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:31, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
:I found this link https://www.srbija.gov.rs/vest/en/43419/serbia-has-and-will-annul-every-act-of-the-fictitious-state-on-its-territory.php which appears to contain the text in question. The site states &quot;Web presentation is licensed under a Creative Commons Аttribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Serbia; Web project srbija.gov.rs&quot; which I don't believe is a valid license for wikisource. [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 22:41, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
::Yes, indeed, NC licenses are not allowed. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 04:25, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:37, 20 April 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Observations on the Intellectual Culture of the Caribou Eskimos]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted as copyrighted. Can be renewed in January 2026.}}
{{ping|Eievie}} Are you sure this is public-domain in the US? This appears to have been published in 1930 in Denmark, a country with 70 PMA, so this should have gotten URAA’d in the US. The license used on Commons for the scan appears to be false in any case. And this can be undeleted on January 1, 2026. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 00:27, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

:I thought it was licensed per the author’s death date, rather than it’s publication date. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]] ([[User talk:Eievie|talk]]) 00:54, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Eievie}} No, that’s only in Europe. Wikisource (and Commons) goes with US copyright law primarily. It was published in 1930, one year after the current expiration cutoff year of 1929, so it can’t be automatically assumed to be PD. I would have looked for something like a lack of renewal, but since it was published in ''Denmark'' and not the US, that doesn’t apply and it gets even more complicated per the URAA. It’s very likely not PD-US, therefore. This could not be in the public domain in the US unless it was published in the US simultaneously within 30 days of the Denmark publication (which is insanely hard to prove for books this old unfortunately. :( ) [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 01:07, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes copyrighted in the US until the end of this year, very unfortunately. I will put the book to [[Wikisource:Requested texts/1930]] and will also try to keep in mind it must be renewed in January next year. [[User:Eievie|Eievie]]: please, mention it here then in case we forget about it. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:14, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:54, 20 April 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Kept as {{tl|PD-UN}}; other objections are discussed at [[ws:PD#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]].}}
Claims to be {{tl|PD-UN}}, however I could not find any UN-published, official, record of it, or containing it. I'm not sure that having been said at the UN makes it public domain. ''Note: when this gets deleted, also delete [[Author:Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto]], as having no works in scope.'' — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:53, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

:About the author, I would have thought that there should be works in scope - though not listed on that page. Also, should that page have all those detailed descriptions of the books ? (Which I guess are under copyright anyway.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:34, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
:The record is hosted here: https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/586026 paragraphs 58-84. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 19:38, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, good, thanks for finding that. I need to get better at finding stuff. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:13, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
:::There are several copies of a film of the speech - or perhaps several links to the same copy. I haven't watched to see if they are complete. And the official report does not include the (Ripping papers) at the end. The only texts that I can see with that are drawn from our version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:00, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Re finding stuff, that is one of the main value adds of Wikisource, especially when we have accurate sourcing information. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:42, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
::::(What I meant was that I'm not very good at having a transcription and searching for a source, as opposed to having a source and transcribing it.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 13:54, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::That was my point, digging this stuff out is hard. Going from Author:Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto --&gt; speech --&gt; source is a huge bonus to have a reliable transcription as a user as opposed to having to know how to search the UN site to find the same thing. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 14:51, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

See also the newly started discussion at [[Wikisource:Proposed deletions#Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's farewell speech to the United Nations Security Council]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:39, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:09, 26 April 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Declaration no. 142-N of the Soviet of the Republics of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
No evidence of the translation having been released into public domain or under a free licence. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:22, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

:While I don't know the source of this translation, a public domain translation by FBIS (i.e. the US Government) is available here which we can use as a scan-backed text instead: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000009949789&amp;seq=199 [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:06, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:56, 30 April 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[:File:Mallory v. Norfolk Southern page 19 image.jpg]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. The image is copyrighted and cannot be uploaded separately. Kept only as a part of the document under ''de minimis'' rationale. The {{tl|Raw image}} template used for displaying the image in the work's transcription.}}
The deletion rationale at [[:commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Mallory v. Norfolk Southern page 19 image.jpg]] still seems valid to me (I think). If that's so, then the license is wrong - it's not a public domain work of the US government, it's an ''all-rights-reserved'' image by Norfolk Southern Corporation (it even says so at the bottom!) - which means that we ''can't'' host this image at all. [[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]] ([[User talk:Duckmather|talk]]) 23:28, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
*[[User:Duckmather|Duckmather]]: As this is a copyright issue, I have moved it to our copyright discussion board and changed the template. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 23:31, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' Commons has determined (in a lengthy discussion with dozens of participants) that such images ''are'' allowed. This discussion (with only one comment besides my own) is not sufficient to change Commons consensus on that issue. In addition, this image (and many like it) are also considered acceptable here. Just as I explained in the deletion discussion on Commons, by being included within a Supreme Court opinion it becomes a part of the opinion, and is thus in the public domain. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 23:36, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
*:I suppose you the discussion you're talking about is [[c:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music.pdf|this one]]? Let's quote the close:
*:{{tqi|The included copyrighted content is ''de minimis'' in the whole document.}} It doesn't say everything included in a SC opinion is public domain; it only says that these lyrics there are ''de minimis'', compared to the opinion they are in. The question here is, then, to determine whether here this image is or is not ''de minimis''. That discussion doesn't give a blanket approval to any and all documents contained in an SC opinion.
*:{{tqi|However this content may not be uploaded as a separate file}}, because in that case it cannot be ''de minimis'' in itself. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 12:49, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{strong|Delete}}: I agree with the ''de minimis'' determination in the Commons DR and believe [[Page:Mallory v. Norfolk Southern.pdf/22|page 19]] of [[Mallory v. Norfolk Southern]] should be altered to include something along the lines of {{tlx|image removed}} or {{tlx|FIS|file{{=}}removed}} since although Commons (and perhaps some of our other sister WMF wikis) allows some ''de minimis'' fair use, Wikisource does not. Context matters and {{FIS|file=Mallory v. Norfolk Southern.pdf|page=22|imgwidth=x64px}} should not be taken out of context. —[[User:Uzume|Uzume]] ([[User talk:Uzume|talk]]) 17:11, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
:{{question}}: Would using the {{tl|Raw image}} be acceptable as the ''de minimis'' solution? --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:59, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:43, 3 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Ertra, Ertra, Ertra]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Public domain status not proven.}}
National anthem of Eritrea. There's no evidence that the original Tigrinya version is public-domain, let alone I can't find the source of the English translation so can't confirm its own copyright (it seems to have come straight from Wikipedia, so probably user-translated, though). [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 09:35, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
*The original version, at least, is in the public domain: there is a [https://www.lawethiopia.com/images/federal_proclamation/proclamations_by_number/673.pdf proclamation] to that effect, which contains the entire text (thus making it an edict of government). (Some of the header of that copy is corrupted, but the actual text, in both languages, is not.) The text was added to Wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eritrea,_Eritrea,_Eritrea&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=4717422 in 2004] by an anonymous user. Apparently [http://www.paolodallapria.it/Inno%20Eritrea.htm this Web-site] also had it; while Google dates it to January 31, 2001, the Web-site doesn’t say that, and the earliest save on Internet Archive [https://web.archive.org/web/20050416135447/http://www.paolodallapria.it/Inno%20Eritrea.htm is after] the text was added to Wikipedia. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:38, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
*{{vd}}, the public domain of the translation does not seem sufficiently proven. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:17, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:49, 3 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Il Canto degli Italiani]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Public domain status not proven.}}
An English translation of the national anthem of Italy, a translation of which there's been no license for roughly 20 years. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 09:43, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
*There’s a public-domain translation from 1961 (in the ''Italian Quarterly''), which I will try to get soon. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:38, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
*:That would be great! Unfortunately, we cannot keep a suspected copyvio in the history of the page either, so I am going to delete the page soon. Looking forward to the PD version to be added here! --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:59, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:55, 3 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Barack Obama's Letter to the LGBT Community]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Public domain status not proven.}}
Tagged but not listed by [[User:FPTI]], no reason given. I guess because Obama was not doing this for his campaign and not in his official federal duties? If so {{vd}}. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 11:56, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{vote delete}}—per [https://www.thepinknews.com/2008/02/29/analysis-obama-reaches-out-to-lgbt-community/ this source] the statement was made before he even became President and was released by his campaign team. {{nowrap/s}}⟲ [[User:Three Sixty|Three Sixty]]!{{nowrap/e}} {{nowrap/s}}([[User talk:Three Sixty|talk]], [[Special:Contribs/Three Sixty|edits]]){{nowrap/e}} 16:37, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:58, 3 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Language is Identity: Why AI Must Listen to Everyone]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Public domain status not proven.}}
Speeches are subject to copyright by default. The author is a (former?) Philippine government official, but this speech appears not to have been made in that capacity. {{nowrap/s}}⟲ [[User:Three Sixty|Three Sixty]]!{{nowrap/e}} {{nowrap/s}}([[User talk:Three Sixty|talk]], [[Special:Contribs/Three Sixty|edits]]){{nowrap/e}} 12:10, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{vd}}. Without a source as well. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 22:33, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:00, 3 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

==[[Index:Kilmer-Abrego-Garcia-Documents.pdf]]==
{{closed/s|result=Three pages containing copyrighted text were removed from the file.}}
Specifically the first three pages, a “Gang Field Interview Sheet” prepared by (an agent of) the Prince George’s County (Maryland) Police Department. The remaining documents (a form, two letters, and two opinions) are all of federal origin and are thus not copyrighted. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:48, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

:I would suspect that everything but the narrative text is a clear candidate for {{tl|PD-ineligible}}. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 22:31, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
::If somebody considers it worth of the work and removes the copyrighted parts, the rest can be kept. Otherwise the whole file will have to be deleted. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:05, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
::*[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]]: If you mention it again before the end of what you would consider an appropriate time for discussion, I will cut those pages from the PDF, as the other material is definitely not copyrighted. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:33, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:{{re|TE(æ)A,ea.}} Unless there are some doubts that need more clarification, I usually try to close discussions about 2 weeks after their nomination, so I was planning to close this one in about 3 days. However, if needed, it can wait for longer time, of course. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 17:24, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
::*::Could someone email the Prince George's County Police Department and ask for permission to use the narrative text before cutting it out of the document? [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 12:33, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:*[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]]: I have removed the three pages in question; could you move the last five pages of the index down, please? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:27, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::*:*:{{done}}. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 07:41, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:15, 8 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Zebra Mussel Act filibuster]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Kept.}}
I am copying here the concern raised by [[User:Jan-Janko|Jan-Janko]] at [[Talk:Zebra Mussel Act filibuster]]:

''I apologize if this is a moot point, as I'm not super familiar with Canadian copyright law. However, I am somewhat confused (by no means accusing anyone of anything, just unsure); would this be in the public record, as it was presumably open to the public, or would this fall under crown copyright? [https://www.ola.org/en/office-assembly/copyright-privacy Their website] certainly implies that they hold copyright over their work.''

-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 17:33, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

Pinging [[User:WanukeX|WanukeX]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 17:34, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

:You should put the {{tl|copyvio}} after the header, so people can see what is the subject. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:35, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:Surely, the important issue is what is the US copyright status. This doesn't look like an edict of government - does it ? Is there anything else that would make it PD in the US ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:56, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
::Re US and Edict of government, I am not sure as legislative history, proceedings and votes are critically important for understanding the meaning and purpose of a particular statue, which is one of the main purposes of the public policy exemption. I am not sure about the case law around state legislative journals in the U.S. though or any statement / precedent here around actual floor speeches (as opposed to, say, committees and reports). If so, then I would still suspect it is crown copyright within Canada, as the UK has a different history of copyright. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:39, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' This is clearly in the public domain in the United States, which is what matters: it falls under [[Georgia v. Public.Resource.Org, Inc.|''Georgia v. PRO'']]’s course-of-legislative-duties test. Canadian Crown copyright would come into play if the Hansard was uploaded on Wikimedia Commons, but that discussion would happen ''there'' anyway. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:26, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
*:&quot;Clearly&quot; - on what basis do you say that ? Edict of government is defined as &quot;Edicts of government, such as judicial opinions, administrative rulings, legislative enactments, public ordinances, and similar official legal documents are not copyrightable for reasons of public policy. This applies to such works whether they are Federal, State, or local as well as to those of foreign governments.&quot; Does this come under that definition ? How is ''Georgia v PRO'' relevant here ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 08:38, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]: It’s quite clear if you read the opinion—it is our description which is out of date. “In the same way that judges cannot be the authors of their headnotes and syllabi, legislators cannot be the authors of (for example) their floor statements, committee reports, and proposed bills. These materials are part of the ‘whole work done by [legislators],’ so they must be ‘free for publication to all.’” ''Georgia'' v. ''Public.Resource.Org, Inc.'', 590 U.S. ___, ___ (2020) (slip op., at 9) (quoting ''Banks'' v. ''Manchester'', 128 U.S. 244, 253 (1888)). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:32, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:@[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] - but how does that make this work an &quot;edict of government&quot; ? As I wrote , does this come under &quot;judicial opinions, administrative rulings, legislative enactments, public ordinances, and similar official legal documents&quot; ? And does ''Georgia v PRO'' apply to non-US works ? If not, then, surely, the question of Canadian copyright then becomes important ?  -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 00:29, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*::Read the opinion. Where does it say &quot;judicial opinions, administrative rulings, legislative enactments, public ordinances, and similar official legal document&quot; is the test? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:15, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:::&quot;Rather than attempting to catalog the materials that constitute “the law,” the doctrine bars the officials responsible for creating the law from being considered the “author[s]” of “whatever work they perform in their capacity” as lawmakers.&quot; Which explicitly rejects listing a &quot;catalog of materials&quot; provided by your list:  &quot;judicial opinions, administrative rulings, legislative enactments, public ordinances, and similar official legal documents.&quot;  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:24, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*::::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] - [[w:Government edicts doctrine]] - if PD-EdictGov doesn't apply, what license does ? The case that you quote is a US case applying to US matters. But does it apply to Canadian matters as well ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:19, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:::::I'm not an expert in any of this by any means, but a quick reading of Georgia v. PRO seemed to highlight the state's relation to copyright more than anything. Presumably, as the SC only has jurisdiction within the United States, it would default to Canada's treatment of copyright law under the Berne Convention, right? The U.S. can dictate was is and isn't copyrightable in its own borders, but it has no say in what Canada can or can not copyright (and must enforce that copyright internationally through Berne). [[User:Jan-Janko|Jan-Janko]] ([[User talk:Jan-Janko|talk]]) 12:02, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*::::::That case defines what is a government edict. It didn't address the part of the defintion: &quot;This applies to such works whether they are Federal, State, or local as well as to those of foreign governments.&quot; So any &quot;edicts of government&quot;, i.e. how defined in Georgia v. PRO,  by &quot;foreign governments&quot; counts. Re the Berne convention it explicitly covers &quot;political speeches and speeches delivered in the course of legal proceedings: &quot;(1) It shall be a matter for legislation in the countries of the Union to exclude, wholly or in part, from the protection provided by the preceding Article political speeches and speeches delivered in the course of legal proceedings.&quot; So the U.S. has the right to define within its own's borders how to treat those.. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:12, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:::::::OK, understood! [[User:Jan-Janko|Jan-Janko]] ([[User talk:Jan-Janko|talk]]) 13:36, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
*:*:*[[User:Beardo|Beardo]]: Like I said, it is ''our statement'' of the government-edicts doctrine which is out of date; the Supreme Court’s formulation (as set down in ''Georgia v. PRO'', the most recent case on the subject) is of course correct—and that formulation is not limited to “judicial opinions.” As for territorial application, you mistake Wikimedia Commons rules for actual law. On English Wikisource, we only care if the work is in the public domain in the United States, so Canadian law is not relevant unless U.S. law looks to foreign law for any reason. Under ''Georgia v. PRO'', “edicts of government” cannot be copyrighted. This ruling is not limited to U.S. jurisdictions, just like the court case itself was not limited to only Georgia but applied to all of the States. The case’s ''effect'' is limited to the reach of U.S. courts, but the ''holding'' effects the works of all governments. My quote above could not be more clear: “legislators cannot be the authors of … their floor statements,” and thus, those statements are in the public domain (in the United States) as edicts of government. At no point in the edicts-of-government analysis is the copyright-related practice of the government brought into question; thus, Canadian law on the subject is not relevant to the analysis under U.S. law. [[User:Jan-Janko|Jan-Janko]]: As to the Berne Convention, international agreements such as treaties are below the Constitution; as the edicts-of-government test originates from the Constitution, any treaty seeking to go against that is null and void insofar as it requires any unconstitutional action. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:19, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 07:42, 11 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[How we won the franchise in New Zealand]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Kept: released under CC0, following the request sent to the publisher by [[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]].}}
(Discussion moved from [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/Nominations#How we won the franchise in New Zealand]])

[[Index:How we won the franchise in New Zealand.pdf]] (1955 edition, CC-BY). Would this be suitable for putting in the under 50 pages (or &quot;to fix&quot;) sections? Its proofed, but needs images and validation.--[[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 03:29, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

:I validated the cover, and looked at the other two problem pages.  The tiny image at the bottom of the last page seems to be some sort of a printer's mark, not part of the work itself.  When magnified, it is illegible (e.g. I can't read the name or address of the printer).  I suggest leaving it out and marking that last page validated.  The only other problematic page needs someone to crop the image of the author, insert it into the page, and validate the page; then the whole pamphlet would be done. [[User:Gnuish|Gnuish]] ([[User talk:Gnuish|talk]]) 02:40, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
:There are bigger problems with this pamphlet.  There is no publication date in the pamphlet.  Metadata at the source claims that it is a 1955 reprint of a 1925 original, but also claims that the author's name on the cover is incorrect and that it was written by someone else.  Additionally, the copy at Wikimedia Commons had a CC-BY tag that there was no supporting documentation for.  I removed that tag and updated the metadata at Commons.  This may well not be suitable for Wikisource, if the authorship is in dispute and the copyright date is unclear, it isn't clear that it has entered the public domain in the US, and all of the alleged authors are dead so they can't issue a CC-BY license for it. [[User:Gnuish|Gnuish]] ([[User talk:Gnuish|talk]]) 03:10, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
::The Massey site I downloaded the PDF from says it is licenced CC-BY, but this may be another example of archives slapping licences on things they have no rights to (in this case, CC-BY is meaningless in Aotearoa, because the underlying NZ copyright expired in 1984 or 1997 depending on which author is accepted)
::The article was originally published anonymously in the WCTU's newsletter, ''White Ribbon'', in 1925. The original notes that reprints in pamphlet form can be obtained: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals/WHIRIB19250119.2.2  
::Massey has based the copyright date on [https://archive.org/details/newzealandnation0004bagn/page/192/mode/2up Bagnall] (NZ's definitive national bibliography), who describes it as &quot;a reprint, with a slight expansion of some paragraphs&quot;. So I guess that makes it a separate work from the 1925 original. But Bagnall also attributes both versions to Sheppard (which would make it PD-1996); Massey and other later sources [https://www.ngataonga.org.nz/explore-stories/curated-collections/whakatu-wahine-voices-of-women-voters-of-1893/ nga taonga] give Peryman (the editor of ''White Ribbon'') as the author. Which means that unless it was &quot;published&quot; in the US (making it PD-US-nonotice) its still copyright there? [[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 23:55, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] It might be worth your while moving/copying this discussion to [[:Wikisource:Copyright discussions]]. If it remains here, it may not be seen by those with sufficient knowledge to assist (This discussion will otherwise be archived soon and I at least cannot be of much help in the matter). Regards, [[User:TeysaKarlov|TeysaKarlov]] ([[User talk:TeysaKarlov|talk]]) 00:28, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I have a hard time following this discussion about which authors, and which publication dates. Based on https://digitalnz.org/make-it-digital/enabling-use-and-reuse/copyright-terms-and-the-public-domain-in-new-zealand for posthumous works it would be 50 years from publication so if it was first published in 1955 by either Sheppard (d. 1934) or Perryman (d. 1945) it would be copyrighted in NZ until 2006 and not eligible for PD-1996. If we take the 1925 publication date than it is clearly in the PD in the U.S. If we take it as anonymous publication in 1955 than the 50 year term for anonymous works apply, which would make it also not eligible for PD-1996. So I don't see a condition that it would be {{tl|PD-1996}}. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:55, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
::::The pamphlet is not anonymous - both versions (incorrectly) named an author. And its not posthumous, because it was ''first'' published in the author's lifetime (in 1925). 
::::Peryman's authorship seems to be accepted. The note about her authorship is in the [https://natlib.govt.nz/records/21876176?search%5Bi%5D%5Bsubject%5D=Women+--+Suffrage+--+New+Zealand&amp;search%5Bpath%5D=items national library catalogue entry], and the WCTU credited it to her when they did a reprint in 1993 (see [https://books.google.co.nz/books/about/How_We_Won_the_Franchise_in_New_Zealand.html?id=tiQWnwEACAAJ&amp;redir_esc=y Google Books]). Which means it was copyright here until 1997, so no PD-1996. 
::::I've resorted to contacting the WCTU (the publisher; they're still around) to see if they have either a 1925 version they can upload, or if they view it as work for hire and can therefore waive US copyright. [[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 02:07, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Perryman died in 1947, if it was published in 1955, how is that not posthumous? 1955 is after 1947. If it was published in 1925 then there is nothing to dispute as it is clearly PD in the US.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 06:24, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
::::*[[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]]: In this case, there is no posthumous authorship, because the original text (as written by Perryman) was published in 1925, while she was alive. However, this 1955 pamphlet has some changes to the original text; because the “author” of these changes is unknown, the anonymous term applies (which is apparently 50 years). Because 50 years from 1955 is after 1991, the URAA restoration date, this 1955 pamphlet must be treated as though it had been published in the United States and followed all applicable copyright formalities. Thus, it is copyright until 1955+95+1=2051. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 12:29, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
::::*:The 1955 text I see as potentially falling into one of three buckets. 
::::*:* It was originally expanded and revised by Perryman before she died, found and then published so a posthumous term applies and hence it was URAA restored
::::*:* It was revised by an anonymous, unknown editor, so anonymous term applies and hence it was URAA restored
::::*:* The revisions are so minor they are below the threshold of {{tl|PD-ineligible}}
::::*:[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 14:37, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
:Have had a reply back from the WCTU; they regard it as work for hire, and are willing to release it under CC0 so that it can be legally publically available in the few countries where it is still impeded by copyright. Just waiting for it to show up on their website (its a public holiday weekend here, so there may be a delay). [[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 04:00, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
::And done: https://www.wctu.org.nz/how-we-won-the-franchise/ [[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 11:47, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Fabulous, well done sorting this out with the copyright owner. — [[User:Giantflightlessbirds|Giantflightlessbirds]] ([[User talk:Giantflightlessbirds|talk]]) 09:36, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
[[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 04:55, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
*Based in part on Otago’s source record, it appears to be a work ''about'' Sheppard with an uncredited author (who is Perryman), which might have been published in 1925. It may be, however, that the 1925 date only refers to the original publication in ''White Ribbon'', and that the earliest date of publication for the pamphlet was ''c.'' 1955 (libraries would know this, in part, based on when they got a copy of the book). Given that there ''are'' changes (once again, not attributed to an author), of which Perryman could not have been the author (as she was already dead), this pamphlet does look to be copyrighted in the United States. However, that also means that the CC BY release could be valid; but there is likely not to be enough information to make that determination conclusively. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 11:59, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
*:I contacted Massey, and they said that &quot;The Creative Commons licence appears to have been incorrectly applied in this case.&quot;
*:Is there any way to check US publication / distribution, to see if no notice applies? [[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 22:56, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Giantflightlessbirds}}, is this something your library or other contacts might be able to assist with? [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 01:48, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Christchurch City Libraries has a photopy of the 1925 pamphlet in its archive: https://archives.canterburystories.nz/agents/corporate_entities/193
:::National library in Wellington has an original: https://natlib.govt.nz/records/21620098?search%5Bi%5D%5Bsubject_text%5D=Sheppard%2C+Kate%2C+1847-1934&amp;search%5Bpath%5D=items [[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 02:21, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 07:51, 11 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== Undelete [[Translation:Salvador Allende's Last Speech]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Declined, not fully released into public domain by Chilean copyright laws.}}
Hello there. This was deleted some time ago as a copyright violation. This is incorrect. The Intellectual Property Law of Chile states in its &quot;Artículo 71 D. [...] Las conferencias, discursos políticos, alegatos judiciales y otras obras del mismo carácter que hayan sido pronunciadas en público, podrán ser utilizadas libremente y sin pago de remuneración, con fines de información, quedando reservado a su autor el derecho de publicarlas en colección separada.&quot; (&quot;Political speeches [...] pronounced in public may be freely used without payment, with the purpose of information, but the author reserves the right to publish them in a separate collection&quot;). [https://bcn.cl/2no8j] As a result, this speech is in the public domain in Chile. [[User:Bedivere|Bedivere]] ([[User talk:Bedivere|talk]]) 17:13, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
:{{sm|As this is a request for undeletion, I have changed the title accordingly.}}
:If the author still has rights over it that everyone doesn't have, then it doesn't sound like the public domain.
:Plus, the &quot;with the purpose of information&quot; might cause issues. PD means that it can be used for any purposes by anyone. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 17:54, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
::That's what I thought at first. In fact, you may be right. BUT:
::Although Chile’s Intellectual Property Law No. 17.336 does not explicitly state that government works are in the public domain, a close reading of the legislative history ([https://www.bcn.cl/historiadelaley/nc/historia-de-la-ley/135/ available here]) reveals that this was indeed the clear intention of the lawmakers. In the original draft of the law, Article 45 explicitly excluded certain government works from copyright protection. The proposed article read as follows: “Article 45.— The following are excluded from the protection of this law: judicial or administrative rulings or decisions, legal texts, and, in general, any public document of the State, such as decrees, regulations, resolutions, official letters, official speeches by public authorities, and other writings of a similar nature, whose reproduction shall be lawful once published by the State, provided that the text is faithfully reproduced.”
::However, during the legislative process, this article was removed. At first glance, one might assume that this deletion implied an intention to extend copyright protection to such documents. However, the legislative record shows the opposite. The article was eliminated on the grounds that it was unnecessary: “At the suggestion of Mr. Miranda, it was agreed to suppress Article 45, which excluded official State documents from the protection of the law. These, when confidential, are protected by other rules, and once made public, may be freely used by anyone.” This statement leaves no doubt as to the lawmakers’ intent: once public, government documents—including official speeches by public authorities—are not subject to copyright protection and may be freely used. The removal of Article 45 was not a substantive change, but rather an acknowledgment that such an exclusion was already understood and did not need to be explicitly stated in the law.
::Therefore, while the current text of Law No. 17.336 does not include an explicit provision placing government works in the public domain, the legislative history makes it abundantly clear that public government documents, including official speeches, are intended to be freely accessible and reproducible. [[User:Bedivere|Bedivere]] ([[User talk:Bedivere|talk]]) 18:30, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I am afraid that even if the orignal article 45 were included, it would not help, because of the part &quot;...provided that the text is faithfully reproduced&quot;. Wikisource requires full unrestricted release into the public domain that includes also e.g. making derivative works. See also the [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions/Archives/2023#Translation:Salvador Allende's Last Speech|previous copyright discussion]] where the conclusion was that Chilean copyright law merely makes government works reusable without financial remuneration in certain limited circumstances, which is not enough for our purposes. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:34, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
:::: Agree. Public domain means no restrictions, at all, period. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:03, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::That isn't quite true as there are moral rights included in the Berne conventio, they exist in countries like France without expiration, and we don't consider those works not in the public domain, or at least I have never seen an argument to the effect with respect to say, URAA-restored works. E.g. you can be sued by the heir of the author of a public domain work if you try to claim authorship over it instead of crediting the original author. But those aren't what is being covered here.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:34, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 07:54, 11 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Coronavirus Disease Outbreak in Call Center, South Korea]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Tagged as CC-BY-4.0.}}
Can someone please verify that the license stated on the page is correct? [[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] ([[User talk:ToxicPea|talk]]) 00:52, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:Surely the CDC is part of the US federal government and so PD-USGov is the applicable license ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:27, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

: The US CDC is just the publisher (I think it's the publisher.) The authors are associated with the Korean CDC and other Korean entities, and nowhere on the page do I see any free license.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 02:18, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
::&quot;Most of the information on the CDC and ATSDR websites is not subject to copyright, is in the public domain, and may be freely used or reproduced without obtaining copyright permission.
::... Copyright-protected materials featured on the CDC and ATSDR websites should include a copyright statement.&quot; - https://www.cdc.gov/other/agencymaterials.html 
::However:
::&quot;2) You must utilize a disclaimer which clearly indicates that your use of the material, including any links to the materials on the CDC, ATSDR or HHS websites, does not imply endorsement by CDC, ATSDR, HHS or the United States Government of you, your company, product, facility, service or enterprise.&quot;
::and
::&quot;3) You may not change the substantive content of the materials; and
::4) You must state that the material is otherwise available on the agency website for no charge.&quot; -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 02:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' This article was published in ''Emerging Infectious Diseases'', the contents of which [https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/about are in the public domain]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
** Okay. It's a pretty bad copy though, since the images are missing and the license is wrong.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 06:16, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
**That may be the case, but those issues do not go to copyright and are irrelevant to this discussion. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 13:32, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
**:What license should it be ? https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/about/general under copyright makes specific reference to CC-BY-4.0. Do we have a licence for something under the Budapest Open Access Initiative ? Or should we just use PD-release ?-- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:56, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
**::Link to the specific issue https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/articles/issue/26/8/table-of-contents which has link to a PDF version as document. CC-BY-4.0 seems appropriate as it is linked from the journal copyright page and aligns with &quot;in the public domain ... proper citation, however, is required.&quot;  It would be nice if people were clearer with these contradictory in the public domain but licensing and actually used CC if they want restrictions and &quot;public domain&quot; if they don't.  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:18, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:55, 18 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Contra-Props]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted, public domain status not proven.}}
This article was published in a British magazine in 1941; the author died in 1946. There is no licence and no justification why it should be public domain. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:39, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:19, 18 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

==Restless Earth==
{{closed/s|result=The work can be hosted here under the PD-1996 licence.}}
''Restless Earth'', by [[Author:William Graeme-Holder|William Graeme-Holder]] (1890 - 1944)

Papers Past has scans [https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/books/ALMA1933-9917502623502836-Restless-earth here], which includes publication details. First published as a book in Aotearoa in 1933 by the Associated N.Z. Author's Publishing Company (previously serialised by an NZ newspaper in 1931). The publisher's typographical arrangement copyright expired in NZ in 1959. Holder died in 1994, so this book entered the public domain in NZ on 1 January 1995. Am I correct in thinking this is PD-1996 under US law?--[[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 00:59, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
: Assuming that this wasn't published in the US before 1989, it does look like it is PD-1996. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 08:49, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
::So I guess the next question is whether to bodge together the national library's scan, or set up the document camera and scan my own copy. [[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 09:38, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Agree, it is PD-1996 (just noting that Holder died in 1944, not 1994 :-). If you need help with creating the file from the scanned pages, try to ask at [[WS:Scan Lab]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:15, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:10, 26 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Civil Act of South Korea/REAL RIGHTS]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted per previous discussion at [[Wikisource:Copyright_discussions/Archives/2025#Copyright Act (South Korea, 2004), etc.]]; this subpage was just missed during the close.}}
This was marked as copyvio in March as part of a large group of Korean legislation - this seems to be a subpage that was missed. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 03:24, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 07:17, 29 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Index:Spectrophotometric and colorimetric determination of the colors of the TCCA standard color cards (IA jresv36n3p209).pdf]] ==
{{closed/s|1=No mention found in the CCE in respect of any Renewals. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 13:20, 30 May 2025 (UTC)}}
One of the authors is listed as a Research Associate rather than as an employee, Thusly I no longer have confidence that the work is PD-USGov as initially thought. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:Given it is 1946 and the original publication is in a government publication without a copyright notice, it would still be {{tl|PD-US-no-notice}} no? Did you check for a copyright registration and renewal? 12:24, 30 May 2025 (UTC) [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:24, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

: I had previously checked for the NBS Journal concered, but will do so again. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:41, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:'''Preliminary Withdrawn'''  I can't find by title, authors or Journal name. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:48, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 13:20, 30 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Index:Lettercircular101022nati.djvu]] ==
{{closed/s|See previous resolved entry}}
Derives from data in an earlier paper, one of the Authors being listed as a Research Associate, rather than an Employee, I thus no longer have confidence in the the earlier paper being PD-US-Gov as thought, and as this derives thereof, I have no confidence in this being PD-US-Gov either.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:48, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
:'''Withdrawn''' (see above). [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:49, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 13:21, 30 May 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[Mazurek Dąbrowskiego]] ==
{{closed/s|1=Deleted; public domain status of translation not proven}}
No sign of the English translation being in the public domain, the earliest occurrence of this translated text I have found is in ''National anthems from around the world : the official national anthems, flags, and anthem histories from 56 countries'', published in 1996. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:51, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:07, 2 June 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== [[:Index:NBS Circular 553.djvu]] ==
{{closed/s}}
Despite this being an NBS imprint, I am not convinced that is in fact a Federal work, given that https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015086505552&amp;seq=7 states it was an ISCC publication, through the NBS. Hence I am bringing it here. 

For simmilar reasons ALL contributions from NBS material should be reviewed as well.

I think we should adopt a clear, pre 1930 cutoff for inclusion moving forward,  as it's unreasonable to expect contributors to dig too deeply into specfic nuances like this. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 10:22, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
: You can decide to just not touch post-1930 stuff; I do; and it is the contributor's responsibility of establishing that the text they're adding is freely licensed. As I see it, those who want to add such texts need to do long and complicated checks; if you don't want to, just don't add these texts. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 10:41, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

: That's a fair assesement. I can't find the above in the CCE, so If not federal it's No Notice, as I can't see one. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:08, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

: Even when users are fully prepared to go beyond what a typical search would involve, setting a clear cut-off would be desirable. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:47, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

:'''Withdrawn''' - Not found in searches, and has NBS/DoC imprint on front cover, and no visible notice, I can determine. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:09, 4 June 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

== Is GNU FDL the same as Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License? ==
{{closed/s|1=Answered.}}
I went from Main_page in to find out about the licensing here.  I want to have GNU FDL on my journals and magazines but that same page is licensed by the Creative Commons. Are they the same? Can we be GNU for a while? For the software?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 16:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
:No, they are not the same, and (if I understood it right) pure GNU FDL is not accepted anymore by Wikimedia Foundation projects, only dual-licensed with another compatible license, typically with some CC-BY-SA license. What I see as most problematic is that GNU FDL allows invariant sections, which are incompatible with our demand of unconditional agreement with derivative works, + some more points which are just impractical, like the demand that the full license text (not just the link to the licence) has to accompany every copy of the work. But others who understand it better than me might give more details. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:46, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]]: I am looking for a way to document my images and other media. I want something that says I can go back to the original. I want to insure my originals be it sound, moving pictures, or text, are all honest and the best of what I had to work with. Is there a better way for that?--[[User:RaboKarbakian|RaboKarbakian]] ([[User talk:RaboKarbakian|talk]]) 19:24, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
::: At the bottom of every edit box is written: {{tqi|By saving changes, you agree to the Terms of Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 4.0 License and the GFDL.}} Having by your edits released them under the CC BY-SA, which does not include the ND (no derivatives) condition. So no, in short, you can't prevent people from modifying stuff you add to Wikimedia projects. (AFAIK this is intentional; as doing so would go against the whole &quot;free content&quot; idea.) Of course, this whole comment assumes that that's what you meant by {{tqi|I want to insure my originals [...] are all honest}}, I'm not sure I understood. Feel free to clarify. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 19:45, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:&lt;small&gt;This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:55, 6 June 2025 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ngayapsp1trw17ggt0ef0bu8tz0tim9</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Index:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4, STORMS.pdf</title>
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      <comment>Done</comment>
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|Type=journal
|Title=[[Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4, STORMS|STORMS.]]
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|Translator=
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|Year=1873
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[[Category:1873 works]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4, STORMS.pdf/1</title>
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        <id>95366</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="2392" sha1="dfgu3g7sy8m8pr7qi6xc3uwx2t7t072" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{center|{{xxx-larger|'''MONTHLY WEATHER REVIEW,'''}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{larger|{{larger|APRIL, 1873.}}}}}}
{{rule}}
{{center|{{larger|'''WAR DEPARTMENT,'''}}

{{bl|Office of the Chief Signal Officer,}}

{{smaller|DIVISION OF}}

{{x-larger|{{sc|Telegrams and Reports for the Benefit of Commerce and Agriculture.}}}}}}

{{center|{{larger|{{sp|'''''STORMS.'''''}}}}}}

During this month seven storms have been felt over a portion, or nearly the whole, of the country east of the Rocky Mountains. The paths of their centres have, approximately, been traced upon the War Department Weather Maps, Signal Service, {{Nowrap|U. S. A.}}

The centre of that of April 1 and 2 passed over Missouri, Illinois and Michigan into Canada, sending out a minor disturbance over the middle Atlantic coast; accompanied by brisk to high winds and heavy rain in all the States east of the Rocky Mountains, except that it was partly snow and sleet over northern New England, the Lake region and the Northwest; it was felt as a very severe storm from northern Texas to the Lakes and Northwest.

April 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7—over Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri, Illinois and lower Michigan into Canada; accompanied by brisk and occasionally high winds, and sending out several minor disturbances to the eastward; also by rain-areas, generally light, from the Missouri and Ohio valleys and east and middle Atlantic coasts to the Lakes and St. Lawrence valley, except over the Lake region where it was partly snow.

April 7, 8, 9 and 10—over Texas, Arkansas, Illinois and Lake Michigan into Canada, sending out a branch over the Ohio valley, middle Atlantic coast and to the south of New England; both accompanied by brisk and high winds; also by rain, generally heavy, from Texas to Minnesota and eastward to the Atlantic coast, except that it was partly snow over the Upper Lakes {{SIC|snd|and}} Northwest; it was followed by a severe &quot;norther&quot; in Texas on the 8th.

April 10, 11, 12 and 13—over the Northwest, and developed into two; one passing over the Lower Lakes into Canada, accompanied by brisk and occasionally high winds and by rain or snow from Missouri and Kentucky to the Lakes; the other over the Ohio valley and middle Atlantic coast, and thence slowly northeastward, preceded by severe northeasterly gales, rain, sleet and snow from Chesapeake Bay to Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and the lower St. Lawrence valley.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dfgu3g7sy8m8pr7qi6xc3uwx2t7t072</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4, STORMS.pdf/2</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131853</id>
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        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15131853</origin>
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      <text bytes="1664" sha1="qg5kn4gez8xtsayh8gd9pvdtmpd9czc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;April 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19—eastward over Wyoming, Nebraska and Kansas to Iowa and Missouri; then diminishing in intensity and breaking up into, and sending out to the eastward over the Lower Lakes, several minor disturbances, and another to the middle Atlantic coast, moving thence very slowly on the 17, 18 and 19 along the New England coast to Nova Scotia and New Brunswick as quite a severe storm; it was accompanied by rain, generally heavy, over the entire country east of the Rocky Mountains, except that it was partly snow over northern New England, the Lake region and the Northwest; on the 12, 13, 14 and 15 it was felt as a very severe storm of rain, sleet and snow in Wyoming, Dakota, Nebraska and Minnesota, on the afternoon and night of the 14th and morning of the 15th as a very severe &quot;norther&quot; in Texas; east of the Mississippi numerous minor disturbances were left, producing light rain or snow.

April 21, 22 and 23—southeastward over Dakota, the lower Missouri and lower Ohio valleys and beyond the Carolinas; attended by fresh to very brisk winds, and by areas of generally light rain or snow from Missouri, Tennessee and North Carolina to Minnesota, the Lakes and Massachusetts, and followed by a severe &quot;norther&quot; in Indian Territory on the 22d, and in Texas on the 23d and 24th.

April 27, 28 and 29—over Indian Territory to Kentucky, then apparently developing into and disappearing to the eastward as several minor disturbances; accompanied by fresh and brisk winds and rain from the interior of the Gulf States to the Lakes and Massachusetts, which was generally heavy over the interior and along the Atlantic coast.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Index:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4 (April 1873), Rain-Fall and Temperature.tif</title>
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      <comment>Done</comment>
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|Type=journal
|Title=[[Monthly Weather Review/Volume 1/Issue 4|Rain-Fall and Temperature, Monthly Weather Review]]
|Language=en
|Volume=[[Monthly Weather Review/Volume 1/Issue 4|Volume 1, Issue 4]] (April 1873)
|Author=United States Department of War, Office of the Chief Signal Officer, Division of Telegrams and Reports for the Benefit of Commerce and Agriculture.
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      <sha1>8o6vwaqexalduunywqkvk8ioe5bwwvo</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 4 (April 1873), Rain-Fall and Temperature.tif/1</title>
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        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1402" sha1="qft2vj37blubr5ore9lf8vpedzge4xg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{center|{{larger|{{sp|'''''RAIN-FALL.'''''}}}}}}

The returns for the month from the Signal Service Stations show that there has been an excess of rain and snow over southern New England, the Lower Lake region, from Indiana and southern Michigan to Kansas, Iowa and southern Minnesota, and over central Alabama and southeastern Georgia, varying from 0.65 inch to 3.06 inches, being greatest in Illinois and Missouri. Elsewhere east of the Rocky Mountains there has been a deficiency of from 0.07 inch to 3.87 inches, been most marked in the Western Gulf States.

{{center|{{larger|{{sp|'''''TEMPERATURE.'''''}}}}}}

During the month the weather has been generally colder than usual east of the Rocky Mountains, and colder than April of last year at the Rocky Mountain stations and eastward. The mean temperature for the month, taken from the Signal Service reports, and compared with that for a number of years at the same stations, or others close by, is lower from Kansas and Missouri to Minnesota, 3° to 8°, in the Middle States and Lake region 0.5° to 5°.7, in New England and from Kentucky to the Gulf 0.5° to 3°, while in the South Atlantic States it varies a little above and below.

The same, compared with that of last year, is lower at the Rocky Mountain stations 2° to 6°, thence eastward 0.5° to 8°, the difference being greatest over the Northwest and the Middle States.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Wikisource talk:WikiProject UK Law</title>
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      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Link to Wikisource on &quot;List of acts of the Parliament of the United Kingdom from yyyy&quot; pages */ Rply.</comment>
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      <text bytes="2995" sha1="6cw791vhctardb648dk99j021wipm3k" xml:space="preserve">== Statutes of the Realm ==

PDFs of the Statutes fo the Realm series have been uploaded here:

[[Index:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 8 (1702-7).pdf]]

But appart from the first volume, the page display and transcription seems to be broken. How can this be fixed? Where should I ask for help? [[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 15:30, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

:I've added all these to the project category. As far as the page display and transcription, for me, clicking around on random pages, it seems to just take a while to load the image of the page in. It looks like these pdfs did not have an OCR text layer created by the repository they were downloaded from, therefore there's no base OCR transcription. However if you hit the &quot;transcribe text&quot; button on the top right of the page, it will create an OCR for that particular page. You could try [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]] to see if someone there knows more about stuff like this. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 22:32, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
::I can't get any page images, nor transcriptions, working at all. Tried on Firefox &amp; Safari. Will try Scriptorium. Thanks for your help. [[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 08:15, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Just found that pages do appear when using Firefox on Linux. Will report this on Scriptorium. [[User:Technolalia|Technolalia]] ([[User talk:Technolalia|talk]]) 08:23, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== Link to Wikisource on &quot;List of acts of the Parliament of the United Kingdom from yyyy&quot; pages ==

@[[User:ToxicPea|ToxicPea]] @[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] I added some functionality to the Legislationuk Module/template which populates the [[Wikipedia:List of acts of the Parliament of the United Kingdom]] lists. Now, whenever we finish proofreading and create a mainspace page for an act, adding the parameter &quot;wikisource=y&quot; to that act on the list will add a linked Wikisource icon, as it does for legislation.gov and parliamentary archives online. I think this is will be useful, especially as we complete acts that are not held in either location, and don't have Wikipedia pages.

As it is currently coded, it pulls from the stated short title to identify the URL, meaning acts like [[Succession to the Crown Act 2013]], which redirect to a disambiguation page, aren't perfect. I think it could eventually interact with Wikidata based upon the calculated citation field and automatically add the link when we link to Wikidata, but I just started learning lua to add this in, so perhaps later on. [[User:Penguin1737|Penguin1737]] ([[User talk:Penguin1737|talk]]) 00:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Penguin1737}} Just found it. I think it's a nice function that allows greater access to other legislation without Wikipedia articles. Will see if this can be integrated with Wikidata.[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] ([[User talk:廣九直通車|talk]]) 14:02, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6cw791vhctardb648dk99j021wipm3k</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu/51</title>
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      <id>15131707</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15131707</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="452" sha1="nzi5izxf7akrnusfuf58kse8fhtkyi4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;ToxicPea&quot; /&gt;{{larger|{{rvh|47|THE HOUSE ON THE BEACH}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I shall be happy to have you so near—until eleven, at least. After that I presume I can reach you at your home?” 

“With ease,” Charlie told him. 

“Let us hope for success,” smiled Tarneverro cryptically, and went to rejoin his elderly acquaintances in the center of the lounge. For a second Chan looked after him. Then, shrugging his broad shoulders, he turned to find the banquet room.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nzi5izxf7akrnusfuf58kse8fhtkyi4</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu/56</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4758980</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131722</id>
      <parentid>15116683</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:55:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SurprisedMewtwoFace</username>
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      <origin>15131722</origin>
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      <text bytes="1556" sha1="42dkohxm8yei1eb0axmtcnnouhcfbkq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;IdiotSavant&quot; /&gt;{{larger|{{rvh|52|THE BLACK CAMEL}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;fore her. The other guests likewise needed no urging. Huntley Van Horn lifted his glass. 

“To our hostess, if any,” he remarked. 

“That’s right—what’s become of Shelah?” Rita Ballou said. “We saw her for a moment when we came{{ld}}” 

“Shelah,” said Van Horn, with a cynical smile, “is no doubt lurking in the background waiting to make a grand and impressive entrance. She will ride in on a white charger, or descend on us from a balloon. You know, she goes in for that sort of thing{{ld}}” 

Julie and Jimmy Bradshaw rushed in, glowing and in high spirits. “Hello, Mr. Van Horn,” the girl cried. “Are you all that’s come?” 

“To think,” he groaned, “that you could be so rude to me.” 

“Oh, you know what I mean,” she laughed. “Where are all our other guests? Val Martino, Mr. Jaynes, Tarneverro{{ld}}” 

“Tarneverro coming?” Van Horn lifted his eyebrows. “In that case, I will have a second cocktail. Thanks so much.”  

Quite unexpectedly there was the sound of steel guitars at the front door, and of many fresh young voices singing a Hawaiian song. Julie cried out with delight. 

“A serenade from Shelah’s admirers,” she said. “Isn't that sweet? She will be pleased.” Her beach robe streaming behind her, she ran to the door and threw it open. She stood gazing out at a vast throng of high-school girls, laden with flowers. They stopped 
their song, and a young Japanese girl stepped forward. “We would like to see Shelah Fane, please.”&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>42dkohxm8yei1eb0axmtcnnouhcfbkq</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131723</id>
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      <text bytes="1564" sha1="4ov365k1sm80p0wvdhkfvcbpo3ihb0e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;IdiotSavant&quot; /&gt;{{larger|{{rvh|52|THE BLACK CAMEL}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;fore her. The other guests likewise needed no urging. Huntley Van Horn lifted his glass. 

“To our hostess, if any,” he remarked. 

“That’s right—what’s become of Shelah?” Rita Ballou said. “We saw her for a moment when we came{{ld}}” 

“Shelah,” said Van Horn, with a cynical smile, “is no doubt lurking in the background waiting to make a grand and impressive entrance. She will ride in on a white charger, or descend on us from a balloon. You know, she goes in for that sort of thing{{ld}}” 

Julie and Jimmy Bradshaw rushed in, glowing and in high spirits. “Hello, Mr. Van Horn,” the girl cried. “Are you all that’s come?” 

“To think,” he groaned, “that you could be so rude to me.” 

“Oh, you know what I mean,” she laughed. “Where are all our other guests? Val Martino, Mr. Jaynes, Tarneverro{{ld}}” 

“Tarneverro coming?” Van Horn lifted his eyebrows. “In that case, I will have a second cocktail. Thanks so much.”  

Quite unexpectedly there was the sound of steel guitars at the front door, and of many fresh young voices singing a Hawaiian song. Julie cried out with delight. 

“A serenade from Shelah’s admirers,” she said. “Isn't that sweet? She will be pleased.” Her beach robe streaming behind her, she ran to the door and threw it open. She stood gazing out at a vast throng of high-school girls, laden with flowers. They stopped 
their song, and a young Japanese girl stepped forward. “We would like to see Shelah Fane, please.”
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1563" sha1="oih9xwf3eys9vt78svza2grzg2qxj3j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;IdiotSavant&quot; /&gt;{{larger|{{rvh|52|THE BLACK CAMEL}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;fore her. The other guests likewise needed no urging. Huntley Van Horn lifted his glass. 

“To our hostess, if any,” he remarked. 

“That’s right—what’s become of Shelah?” Rita Ballou said. “We saw her for a moment when we came{{ld}}” 

“Shelah,” said Van Horn, with a cynical smile, “is no doubt lurking in the background waiting to make a grand and impressive entrance. She will ride in on a white charger, or descend on us from a balloon. You know, she goes in for that sort of thing{{ld}}” 

Julie and Jimmy Bradshaw rushed in, glowing and in high spirits. “Hello, Mr. Van Horn,” the girl cried. “Are you all that’s come?” 

“To think,” he groaned, “that you could be so rude to me.” 

“Oh, you know what I mean,” she laughed. “Where are all our other guests? Val Martino, Mr. Jaynes, Tarneverro{{ld}}” 

“Tarneverro coming?” Van Horn lifted his eyebrows. “In that case, I will have a second cocktail. Thanks so much.”  

Quite unexpectedly there was the sound of steel guitars at the front door, and of many fresh young voices singing a Hawaiian song. Julie cried out with delight. 

“A serenade from Shelah’s admirers,” she said. “Isn't that sweet? She will be pleased.” Her beach robe streaming behind her, she ran to the door and threw it open. She stood gazing out at a vast throng of high-school girls, laden with flowers. They stopped their song, and a young Japanese girl stepped forward. “We would like to see Shelah Fane, please.”
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    <title>Page:The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu/57</title>
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      <text bytes="1691" sha1="0alsn3612g9qwr7fgz89g75o192fcsv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;IdiotSavant&quot; /&gt;{{larger|{{rvh|53|
FLOWERS FOR SHELAH FANE}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;“Of course,” said Julie. “Just wait, and I’ll get her. While you’re waiting, if you don’t mind—will you sing ''The Song of the Islands?'' It’s Miss Fane’s favorite, you know.” 

She left the door open and returned to the living-room. “Come on, Jimmy—we'll find Shelah. I think she’s in the pavilion.” 

“Sure,” said Jimmy. They went out on the lawn. 

“Couldn’t be better,” Julie cried. “For Shelah’s entrance on the party, I mean. That crowd outside serenading her as she comes in—she’ll love it.” 

“Good lord,” said Bradshaw, disapproval in his voice. 

“Oh, I know,” the girl answered. “It’s silly, but poor Shelah’s what she is. Her life has made her so, and she can’t change.” They went on across the soft lawn under the hau trees and the algarobas. The sweet haunting strains of ''The Song of the Islands'' came to them on the evening breeze. “Hurry,” Julie said, “Shelah must get in there before that song ends.” 

She ran up the steps of the pavilion, with Bradshaw close behind. He pushed open the door of the single room. For a second he stood there, then he turned swiftly and caught the girl in his arms. 

“No, no,” he cried. “Don’t go any farther.” 

His tone frightened her. “What do you mean?” 

“Turn around and go back,” he pleaded, but she tore away from him and ran inside. 

“You'll be sorry,” he warned. 

And she was sorry, it seemed, for above the voices of the serenaders and the distant whine of steel guitars, her own voice rose in a sharp cry of fright and terror. 

Shelah Fane lay on the floor beside a small straight-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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FLOWERS FOR SHELAH FANE}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;“Of course,” said Julie. “Just wait, and I’ll get her. While you’re waiting, if you don’t mind—will you sing ''The Song of the Islands?'' It’s Miss Fane’s favorite, you know.” 

She left the door open and returned to the living-room. “Come on, Jimmy—we'll find Shelah. I think she’s in the pavilion.” 

“Sure,” said Jimmy. They went out on the lawn. 

“Couldn’t be better,” Julie cried. “For Shelah’s entrance on the party, I mean. That crowd outside serenading her as she comes in—she’ll love it.” 

“Good lord,” said Bradshaw, disapproval in his voice. 

“Oh, I know,” the girl answered. “It’s silly, but poor Shelah’s what she is. Her life has made her so, and she can’t change.” They went on across the soft lawn under the hau trees and the algarobas. The sweet haunting strains of ''The Song of the Islands'' came to them on the evening breeze. “Hurry,” Julie said, “Shelah must get in there before that song ends.” 

She ran up the steps of the pavilion, with Bradshaw close behind. He pushed open the door of the single room. For a second he stood there, then he turned swiftly and caught the girl in his arms. 

“No, no,” he cried. “Don’t go any farther.” 

His tone frightened her. “What do you mean?” 

“Turn around and go back,” he pleaded, but she tore away from him and ran inside. 

“You'll be sorry,” he warned. 

And she was sorry, it seemed, for above the voices of the serenaders and the distant whine of steel guitars, her own voice rose in a sharp cry of fright and terror. 

Shelah Fane lay on the floor beside a small straight{{peh}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu/58</title>
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      <text bytes="1577" sha1="18udd4zfvkvl9czgcwrbtcx8g3z6icl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;IdiotSavant&quot; /&gt;{{larger|{{rvh|54|THE BLACK CAMEL}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;backed chair. She had been stabbed through the heart; her priceless ivory gown was stained with crimson. Outside, that little group of her admirers continued to sing fervently their serenade. 

Julie knelt by the star’s side, and Bradshaw looked away. In a moment he went over and lifted the girl to her feet. “We'd better go,” he said gently. “There’s nothing we can do.” 

He led her to the door. She looked up at him through her tears. “But who—who——” she murmured.
 
“Ah, yes{{ld}}” he answered. “That, I’m afraid, is the big question now.” 

He found, on the inside of the pavilion door, an unexpected key. They went outside, and the boy locked the door, putting the key in his pocket. Slowly they walked back to the house. Huntley Van Horn greeted them. 

“Did you tell Shelah?” he said. “The stage is all set. Her guests are gathered in the living-room, her great public is singing lustily at the door—it’s a grand entrance{{ld}}” He stopped at sight of Julie’s face. 

“What’s happened?” cried Rita Ballou shrilly. 

Bradshaw stood looking about the little group. Jessop came in and, picking up the silver tray on which he had served the cocktails, prepared to collect the empty glasses. Outside the door, ''The Song of the Islands'' trailed off into silence. 

“Shelah Fane has been murdered in the pavilion,” said the boy in a low voice. 

There was a sudden crash. Jessop had been guilty of his first error in forty years of service. He had dropped the silver tray.
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      <id>15131735</id>
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      <text bytes="1577" sha1="2ega8tn65suhc5zcyzfje53cyc442el" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;IdiotSavant&quot; /&gt;{{larger|{{rvh|54|THE BLACK CAMEL}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;backed chair. She had been stabbed through the heart; her priceless ivory gown was stained with crimson. Outside, that little group of her admirers continued to sing fervently their serenade. 

Julie knelt by the star’s side, and Bradshaw looked away. In a moment he went over and lifted the girl to her feet. “We'd better go,” he said gently. “There’s nothing we can do.” 

He led her to the door. She looked up at him through her tears. “But who—who{{ld}}” she murmured.
 
“Ah, yes{{ld}}” he answered. “That, I’m afraid, is the big question now.” 

He found, on the inside of the pavilion door, an unexpected key. They went outside, and the boy locked the door, putting the key in his pocket. Slowly they walked back to the house. Huntley Van Horn greeted them. 

“Did you tell Shelah?” he said. “The stage is all set. Her guests are gathered in the living-room, her great public is singing lustily at the door—it’s a grand entrance{{ld}}” He stopped at sight of Julie’s face. 

“What’s happened?” cried Rita Ballou shrilly. 

Bradshaw stood looking about the little group. Jessop came in and, picking up the silver tray on which he had served the cocktails, prepared to collect the empty glasses. Outside the door, ''The Song of the Islands'' trailed off into silence. 

“Shelah Fane has been murdered in the pavilion,” said the boy in a low voice. 

There was a sudden crash. Jessop had been guilty of his first error in forty years of service. He had dropped the silver tray.
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu/62</title>
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    <id>4759473</id>
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      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="1489" sha1="qn1hbbcsevxohjlhnmq37qbh4f12juj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;IdiotSavant&quot; /&gt;{{larger|{{rvh|58|THE BLACK CAMEL}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;“Yes?” returned Tarneverro lightly. 

Charlie’s small eyes were fixed upon the other’s face with a fierce intensity. Not too soon to collect impressions, to weigh, to measure, to study. 

“Miss Shelah Fane,” he said slowly, “is just now found murdered at her home.” 

For hours afterward he was to speculate upon the look that crossed that dark mysterious face. 

“Shelah!” Tarneverro cried. “Good God!” 

“You were on your way there, perhaps?” Charlie continued. 

“I—I—yes—of course{{ld}}”  

“Do me the honor to ride with me. I desire to ask questions.” 

Val Martino hurried up. “I say, Tarneverro—are you going down the beach?” 

Tarneverro told him the news. The director heard it with surprising calmness. 

“Too bad,” he said evenly. He was thoughtful. “Well, there goes six months’ hard work. That picture’s ruined. I'll never find anybody to double for her—I’ve tried it{{ld}}”

“Good lord, man!” cried Tarneverro angrily. “Shelah is dead, and you babble about your picture.” 

“Sorry,” said Martino. “Sorry for poor Shelah. But even in the movies, the show must go on.” 

“What became of that fellow Jaynes?” Tarneverro asked suddenly. 

“Right after we left you, he shook me off and strolled down the beach. He was in a state of mind—well, you saw that. Wasn’t coming to the dinner—but I fancy I'd better find him and bring him down, eh?”
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu/65</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4759570</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131743</id>
      <parentid>15108020</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:06:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="1692" sha1="4b61u4tm6mga3lg8flt0j031los9r6g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;IdiotSavant&quot; /&gt;{{larger|{{rvh|61|THE CAMEL AT THE GATE}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;to punish her for her long silence. I trust I was right in that?” 

“Speaking for myself only, yes,” nodded Charlie. 

“I suggested she refuse Jaynes for the present, and go through with this unpleasant duty which I felt she owed to society. I said I thought it would be extremely foolish for her to marry any man with such a threat hanging over her happiness. If he really cared for her, I pointed out, Jaynes would marry her in the end. If he didn’t care that much, then it was better to discover it now.” 

They alighted and stood under the banyan tree. Charlie peered into the fortune-teller’s face. “And if Jaynes did not marry her{{ld}}” he suggested. 

Tarneverro shrugged. “You are on the wrong track there,” he said. “I had no sentimental interest in Shelah Fane. But I didn’t fancy my rôle—the secret she confided in me was a bit more than I’d bargained for. I felt, too, that for the sake of her own happiness she ought to get rid of this burden at last. So I pleaded with her to make public the name of the guilty person 
in the Mayo case.” 

“And she agreed?” Charlie asked. 

“Not precisely. The idea rather frightened her. She said she would think it over, and give me her decision to-night. ‘Write me a brief statement, with that name included,’ I told her, ‘give it to me at dinner this evening, and I will make everything as easy for you as possible.’ I was confident of gaining my point, or I would never have spoken to you about it. Yes, I would have gained it—but now—now{{ld}}” 

“Now,” Chan said, “the killer of Denny Mayo has silenced this woman for ever.”
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    <title>Index:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu</title>
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    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/12</title>
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      <text bytes="2586" sha1="4ok803tv3104pi1o8zivmx15l7u43ii" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|116|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;On the largest island of the Beaver archipelago, in Lake Michigan, there flourished about the middle of the present century, a community of several thousand Latter-Day Saints. They were ruled by a king for nearly seven years. Of his temple and his so-called castle, the only vestiges now are a few splinters in the collections of relic hunters. His subjects have been scattered far and wide, and ax and torch long ago reduced their habitations to heaps of cinders.

{{pbr}}In the busy brain of James Jesse Strang was conceived the scheme of founding in Wisconsin an empire of Latter-Day Saints. When the great exodus from Nauvoo began, he sought to turn the steps of the wanderers to his city of refuge at Voree. It was questionable for a time whether he or Brigham Young would triumph. Other pretenders sought to don the fallen mantle of Joseph Smith, but Brigham Young feared none of them as he did Strang. In the end the dream of Strang faded away, and his life paid the penalty of his ambition. His vast plans were &quot;dead sea fruit, that tempt the eye, but turn to ashes on the lips.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Scattered throughout the peninsula of Door County and adjacent islands, and also in the counties of Rock, Walworth and Racine, loyal adherents of King Strang can still be found. They cling to the faith he taught them with unabated devotion, and cherish his memory with unwavering loyalty.&lt;/ref&gt;

{{ph|THE MORMON COULEE SETTLEMENT.}}

The settlement in Mormon coulée had but brief duration. When the Mormon temple at Nauvoo was planned, a party of Saints ascended the Mississippi to obtain lumber for the structure. Doubtless the snug little valleys behind the hills that skirt the prairie of La Crosse tempted them to there plant
&lt;ref follow=&quot;n2&quot;&gt;instances of witchcraft attributable to the elder of the community. The narrators evidently believed the stories implicitly, the grotesqueness and Impossibility of the performances alleged to have occurred scarcely paralleling in extent the credulity of the country folk.

{{pbr}}In the neighboring village of Springfield there were, at the time of my visit, a few Mormons who used the schoolhouse as a meeting place. When the Saints were to be called together, the clangor of the school bell apprised them of the fact. Yielding to popular pressure, the trustees of the school had the bell removed. Thereupon the Mormons expressed their Indignation by placarding the town with notices of their meeting, these words appearing in large, black type: &quot;Curfew must not ring to-night.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4ok803tv3104pi1o8zivmx15l7u43ii</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/24</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4762243</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132602</id>
      <parentid>14904230</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:23:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1044" sha1="dj4vlx7ttwyn6880cxqoazdxx88pksn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|128|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Prophet.&quot; It bore date of December 25, 1845, and concluded in this wise:

&quot;Let not my call to you be vain. The destroyer has gone forth among you, and has prevailed. You are preparing to resign country and houses and lands to him. Many of you are about to leave the haunts of civilization and of men to go into an unexplored wilderness among savages, and in trackless deserts, to seek a home in the wilds where the footprint of the
{{class figure/inline
 &lt;includeonly&gt;|float= right&lt;/includeonly&gt;
 |caption = STRANG'S &quot;CASTLE&quot; ON BEAVER ISLAND.
 |caption2 = (From a photograph owned by Chas. J. Strang.)
}}
white man is not found. The voice of God has not called you to this. His promise has not gone before to prepare a habitation for you. The hearts of the Lamanites are not turned unto you, and they will not regard you. When the herd comes, the savages shall pursue. The cloud which surrounds by day shall bewilder, and the pillar of fire by night shall consume and reveal you to the destroyer.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/42</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4762248</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132599</id>
      <parentid>14904249</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:20:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132599</origin>
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      <text bytes="1210" sha1="b5qy8yz4umjk8v04r1luivjq77sjmjw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|146|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tiles who lived on Beaver Island. They resisted; Thomas Bennett was instantly shot dead and his brother had one hand nearly shot away.

{{ph|ASSASSINATION OF THE KING.}}

Such episodes caused renewed activity in the Gentile strongholds among those who planned to sweep the Mormon settlements with fire and sword. Before their plans could be executed the King was assassinated by two of his rebellious
{{class figure
 &lt;includeonly&gt;|float= right&lt;/includeonly&gt;
 |caption = NORTHERN END OF BEAVER ISLAND.
 |caption2 = {{c|(From the Smithsonian Report for 1878.)}}
Showing the harbor of St. James and the mounds whereon the Mormon temple and public buildings of the kingdom were erected.
}}
subjects—Thomas Bedford and Alexander Wentworth. Bedford had been whipped by order of the King for some offense; he is said to have upheld his wife in disregarding the mandate to wear bloomers. Wentworth also had a grievance. About the middle of June, 1856, the Michigan steamed into the harbor, and by invitation of the captain King Strang proceeded to visit the vessel's officers. As he was about to step on the pier, two pistol shots were fired from behind, both taking effect. He&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
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      <parentid>15132599</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:21:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <origin>15132600</origin>
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      <text bytes="1233" sha1="84r8e3tbds0xun1yit594w4c2y1vfrc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|146|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tiles who lived on Beaver Island. They resisted; Thomas Bennett was instantly shot dead and his brother had one hand nearly shot away.

{{ph|ASSASSINATION OF THE KING.}}

Such episodes caused renewed activity in the Gentile strongholds among those who planned to sweep the Mormon settlements with fire and sword. Before their plans could be executed the King was assassinated by two of his rebellious
{{class figure/inline
 &lt;includeonly&gt;|float= right&lt;/includeonly&gt;
 |width = 400px
 |caption = NORTHERN END OF BEAVER ISLAND.
 |caption2 = {{c|(From the Smithsonian Report for 1878.)}}
Showing the harbor of St. James and the mounds whereon the Mormon temple and public buildings of the kingdom were erected.
}}
subjects—Thomas Bedford and Alexander Wentworth. Bedford had been whipped by order of the King for some offense; he is said to have upheld his wife in disregarding the mandate to wear bloomers. Wentworth also had a grievance. About the middle of June, 1856, the Michigan steamed into the harbor, and by invitation of the captain King Strang proceeded to visit the vessel's officers. As he was about to step on the pier, two pistol shots were fired from behind, both taking effect. He&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>84r8e3tbds0xun1yit594w4c2y1vfrc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132601</id>
      <parentid>15132600</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:22:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132601</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1226" sha1="ladi2vjpbsblzycfa1h45y0pfer9sq7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|146|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tiles who lived on Beaver Island. They resisted; Thomas Bennett was instantly shot dead and his brother had one hand nearly shot away.

{{ph|ASSASSINATION OF THE KING.}}

Such episodes caused renewed activity in the Gentile strongholds among those who planned to sweep the Mormon settlements with fire and sword. Before their plans could be executed the King was assassinated by two of his rebellious
{{class figure
 &lt;includeonly&gt;|float= right&lt;/includeonly&gt;
 |width = 400px
 |caption = NORTHERN END OF BEAVER ISLAND.
 |caption2 = {{c|(From the Smithsonian Report for 1878.)}}
Showing the harbor of St. James and the mounds whereon the Mormon temple and public buildings of the kingdom were erected.
}}
subjects—Thomas Bedford and Alexander Wentworth. Bedford had been whipped by order of the King for some offense; he is said to have upheld his wife in disregarding the mandate to wear bloomers. Wentworth also had a grievance. About the middle of June, 1856, the Michigan steamed into the harbor, and by invitation of the captain King Strang proceeded to visit the vessel's officers. As he was about to step on the pier, two pistol shots were fired from behind, both taking effect. He&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ladi2vjpbsblzycfa1h45y0pfer9sq7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132604</id>
      <parentid>15132601</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:26:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132604</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1232" sha1="2ui35f95smdyindfsw4ps6v49kuf7h7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|146|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tiles who lived on Beaver Island. They resisted; Thomas Bennett was instantly shot dead and his brother had one hand nearly shot away.

{{ph|ASSASSINATION OF THE KING.}}

Such episodes caused renewed activity in the Gentile strongholds among those who planned to sweep the Mormon settlements with fire and sword. Before their plans could be executed the King was assassinated by two of his rebellious
{{class figure/inline
 &lt;includeonly&gt;|float= right&lt;/includeonly&gt;
 |width = 400px
 |caption = NORTHERN END OF BEAVER ISLAND.
 |caption2 = {{c|(From the Smithsonian Report for 1878.)}}Showing the harbor of St. James and the mounds whereon the Mormon temple and public buildings of the kingdom were erected.
}}
subjects—Thomas Bedford and Alexander Wentworth. Bedford had been whipped by order of the King for some offense; he is said to have upheld his wife in disregarding the mandate to wear bloomers. Wentworth also had a grievance. About the middle of June, 1856, the Michigan steamed into the harbor, and by invitation of the captain King Strang proceeded to visit the vessel's officers. As he was about to step on the pier, two pistol shots were fired from behind, both taking effect. He&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2ui35f95smdyindfsw4ps6v49kuf7h7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/22</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4762347</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132357</id>
      <parentid>14904457</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:02:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132357</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2138" sha1="4a229vcsikxqfnwb0s22bjn292205m0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|126|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Strang with great bitterness. These are the headlines of an article nearly four columns in length:

{{smaller block|{{center|
{{larger|{{asc|SKETCHES OF NOTORIOUS CHARACTERS.}}}}

James J. Strang, Successor of Sidney Rigdon, Judas&lt;br&gt;
Iscariot, Cain &amp; Co., Envoy Extraordinary&lt;br&gt;
and Minister Plenipotentiary of His&lt;br&gt;
Most Gracious Majesty, Lucifer&lt;br&gt;
the I., etc.&lt;ref&gt;&quot;Millennial Star,&quot; Vol. VIII, p. 123.&lt;/ref&gt;
}}}}

In Philadelphia, Aug. 30, 1846, Strang found Orson Hyde and J. Taylor, two of his old-time opponents, holding meetings. He challenged them to a public debate to show who had the best authority to represent the true Mormon faith. This was the answer he received.&lt;ref&gt;&quot;Gospel Herald,&quot; Vol. I, No. 8.&lt;/ref&gt;

{{blockquote|
{{sc|Sir}}—After Lucifer was cut off and thrust down to hell, we have no knowledge that God ever condescended to investigate the subject or right of authority with him.

Your case has been disposed of by the authorities of the church, and being satisfied with our own power and calling, we have no disposition to ask from whence yours came.

{{right|offset=10em|Yours respectfully.}}

{{right|offset=2em|ORSON HYDE,&lt;br&gt;JOHN TAYLOR.}}
}}

It must be admitted that in the numerous pamphlets which he scattered broadcast, and in his newspaper rejoinders, Strang kept his temper much better than the Nauvoo disputants. In his pamphlet called &quot;Prophetic Controversy,&quot; he sarcastically alludes to the &quot;saintly spirit&quot; that could inspire such fulminations as have been quoted; but his failure to secure recognition at Nauvoo rankled deeply. In his Gospel Tract No. 4, wherein he defends &quot;the calling of James J. Strang as successor to Joseph Smith,&quot; this serious charge is made.&lt;ref&gt;&quot;Gospel Tract No. 4,&quot; Voree, Wis., 1848, p. 5.&lt;/ref&gt;

&quot;Immediately after the martyrdom of Joseph, John Taylor, Willard Richards and William W. Phelps took a kind of temporary direction of the affairs of the Church, instructing the saints to wait patiently the hand of the Lord, assuring them that He had not left them without a shepherd, and that all things&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4a229vcsikxqfnwb0s22bjn292205m0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132598</id>
      <parentid>15132357</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:19:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132598</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2116" sha1="3fs5obwozuoyykfirzfluxbyxrgfwb2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|126|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Strang with great bitterness. These are the headlines of an article nearly four columns in length:

{{blockquote|{{center|
SKETCHES OF NOTORIOUS CHARACTERS.

James J. Strang, Successor of Sidney Rigdon, Judas&lt;br&gt;
Iscariot, Cain &amp; Co., Envoy Extraordinary&lt;br&gt;
and Minister Plenipotentiary of His&lt;br&gt;
Most Gracious Majesty, Lucifer&lt;br&gt;
the I., etc.&lt;ref&gt;&quot;Millennial Star,&quot; Vol. VIII, p. 123.&lt;/ref&gt;
}}}}

In Philadelphia, Aug. 30, 1846, Strang found Orson Hyde and J. Taylor, two of his old-time opponents, holding meetings. He challenged them to a public debate to show who had the best authority to represent the true Mormon faith. This was the answer he received.&lt;ref&gt;&quot;Gospel Herald,&quot; Vol. I, No. 8.&lt;/ref&gt;

{{blockquote|
{{sc|Sir}}—After Lucifer was cut off and thrust down to hell, we have no knowledge that God ever condescended to investigate the subject or right of authority with him.

Your case has been disposed of by the authorities of the church, and being satisfied with our own power and calling, we have no disposition to ask from whence yours came.

{{right|offset=10em|Yours respectfully.}}

{{right|offset=2em|ORSON HYDE,&lt;br&gt;JOHN TAYLOR.}}
}}

It must be admitted that in the numerous pamphlets which he scattered broadcast, and in his newspaper rejoinders, Strang kept his temper much better than the Nauvoo disputants. In his pamphlet called &quot;Prophetic Controversy,&quot; he sarcastically alludes to the &quot;saintly spirit&quot; that could inspire such fulminations as have been quoted; but his failure to secure recognition at Nauvoo rankled deeply. In his Gospel Tract No. 4, wherein he defends &quot;the calling of James J. Strang as successor to Joseph Smith,&quot; this serious charge is made.&lt;ref&gt;&quot;Gospel Tract No. 4,&quot; Voree, Wis., 1848, p. 5.&lt;/ref&gt;

&quot;Immediately after the martyrdom of Joseph, John Taylor, Willard Richards and William W. Phelps took a kind of temporary direction of the affairs of the Church, instructing the saints to wait patiently the hand of the Lord, assuring them that He had not left them without a shepherd, and that all things&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3fs5obwozuoyykfirzfluxbyxrgfwb2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/75</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4762354</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132589</id>
      <parentid>14904468</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:09:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132589</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1964" sha1="1423oytgtotxu2jirl5tofnzeslo14x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|179|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;following printed authorities having reference to Strang have been consulted in the compilation of this paper:

{{blockquote|{{plainlist|
* &quot;Revelations of James J. Strang,&quot; no date; compiled by Wingfield. Watson.
* Chapter on &quot;Spring Prairie,&quot; in &quot;History of Walworth County.&quot;
* Chapter on Beaver Harbor Mounds, in Smithsonian annual report for 1878.
* &quot;An American Kingdom of Mormons,&quot; by F. D. Leslie, in &quot;Magazine of Western History,&quot; April, 1886.
* Chapter on &quot;The Scattered Flock,&quot; in &quot;Early Days of Mormonism,&quot; by J. H. Kennedy. London, 1888.
* Chapter on &quot;A New Prophet,&quot; in &quot;The Prophet of Palmyra,&quot; by Thos. Gregg. New York, 1890.
* Chapter on &quot;Contest for the Leadership,&quot; in &quot;Mysteries and Crimes of Mormonism,&quot; by J. H. Beadle. Philadelphia, 1870.
* &quot;The Mormons,&quot; by Lieut. J. W. Gunnison. Philadelphia, 1852.
* &quot;An American King,&quot; in &quot;Harper's Monthly Magazine&quot; for March, 1882.
* &quot;Beaver Island and its Mormon Kingdom,&quot; by Chas. J. Strang in the &quot;Little Traverse Bay Souvenir.&quot; Lansing, 1895.
* &quot;History of the Traverse Region.&quot; Chicago, 1884.
* &quot;Candidates for the Pontificate,&quot; In Remy &amp; Brenchley's &quot;Journey tomGreat Salt Lake City,&quot; Vol. 1. London, 1861.
* &quot;Sketch of James Jesse Strang,&quot; in Vol. XVIII. Michigan Pioneer and Historical Collections. Lansing.
* Newspaper articles consulted:
* New York Tribune, July 2, 1853. (Letter from Strang defending the Beaver Island Mormons.)
* New York Times, Sept. 3, 1882.
* Detroit Free Press, June 30, 1889. (Statement of King Strang's assassination as witnessed by Capt. Alex. St. Barnard, of the United States steamer Michigan.)
* Chicago Tribune, Oct. 2, 1892, and Oct. 13, 1895.
* Detroit News, July 1, 1882.
* Chicago Illustrated Journal, January, 1873.
* Yenowine's Illustrated News, Milwaukee, June 24, 1888.
* Milwaukee Sentinel, May 6, 1892.
}}}}

Most of the newspaper articles concerning the Beaver Island kingdom contain gross exaggerations.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1423oytgtotxu2jirl5tofnzeslo14x</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/74</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4762355</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132610</id>
      <parentid>14904470</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:30:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132610</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1527" sha1="f3ij89l70iqlv9s1zrrvghsi3mb0pqe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|178|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;The general tenor of the hymns may be gathered from following sample verses from Hymn XLV:

{{ppoem|
&lt;&gt; XLV. Book of Mormon, P. M.

1. &lt;&lt;&lt; O, who that has search'd the records of old,
: And read the last scenes of distress;
Four and twenty were left, who with Mormon beheld,
: While their nation lay mould'ring to dust.

2. &lt;&lt;&lt; The Nephites destroyed, the Lamanites dwelt,
: For ages in sorrow unknown;
Generations have pass'd, till the Gentiles at last,
: Have divided their lands as their own.
}}

This is the first verse of Hymn LXXIX:

{{ppoem|
Ephraim's records, plates of gold,
Glorious things to us unfold,
Though sealed up they long have been,
To give us light they now begin.
}}

3. &quot;Ancient and Modern Michilimackinac, including an account of the Controversy between Mackinac and the Mormons,&quot; 1854. Reprinted by Wingfield Watson in 1894.

4. &quot;The Diamond, being the law of Prophetic Succession and a Defense of the Calling of James J. Strang as successor to Joseph Smith, and a Full Exposition of the Law of God Touching the Succession of Prophets Holding the Presidency of the True Church, and the Proof that this Succession Has Been Kept Up.&quot; Voree, Wis., 1848.

5. &quot;Catholic Controversy.&quot; Very scarce. I have been unable to obtain a copy.

6. &quot;Prophetic Controversy.&quot; St. James, 1854.

{{center|{{larger|VIII.}}}}

{{ph|BIBLIOGRAPHY.}}

In addition to the Strang publications, manuscripts to which I have had access and personal letters and interviews,&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>f3ij89l70iqlv9s1zrrvghsi3mb0pqe</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132643</id>
      <parentid>15132610</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:52:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132643</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1524" sha1="hzfae0d8toskk10cy1wmiy6dzfyxwal" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|178|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;The general tenor of the hymns may be gathered from following sample verses from Hymn XLV:

{{ppoem|
&lt;&gt; XLV. Book of Mormon, P. M.

1. &lt;&lt;&lt; O, who that has search'd the records of old,
: And read the last scenes of distress;
Four and twenty were left, who with Mormon beheld,
: While their nation lay mould'ring to dust.

2. &lt;&lt;&lt; The Nephites destroyed, the Lamanites dwelt,
: For ages in sorrow unknown;
Generations have pass'd, till the Gentiles at last,
: Have divided their lands as their own.
}}

This is the first verse of Hymn LXXIX:

{{ppoem|
Ephraim's records, plates of gold,
Glorious things to us unfold,
Though sealed up they long have been,
To give us light they now begin.
}}

3. &quot;Ancient and Modern Michilimackinac, including an account of the Controversy between Mackinac and the Mormons,&quot; 1854. Reprinted by Wingfield Watson in 1894.

4. &quot;The Diamond, being the law of Prophetic Succession and a Defense of the Calling of James J. Strang as successor to Joseph Smith, and a Full Exposition of the Law of God Touching the Succession of Prophets Holding the Presidency of the True Church, and the Proof that this Succession Has Been Kept Up.&quot; Voree, Wis., 1848.

5. &quot;Catholic Controversy.&quot; Very scarce. I have been unable to obtain a copy.

6. &quot;Prophetic Controversy.&quot; St. James, 1854.

{{heading|VIII.|center}}

{{ph|BIBLIOGRAPHY.}}

In addition to the Strang publications, manuscripts to which I have had access and personal letters and interviews,&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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 | title       = Acadiensis
 | editor      = David Russell Jack
 | translator  = 
 | section     = 
 | previous    = 
 | next        = 
 | year        = 
 | notes       = &quot;A Quarterly Devoted to the Interests of the Maritime Provinces of Canada&quot;, https://www.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.8_06939
}}
Volumes I to VIII (individual issues) {{ext scan link|1=https://www.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.8_06939}}

*[[/Volume 1|Volume I]] (1901)
*[[/Volume 2|Volume II]] (1902) {{ssl|Acadiensis Q2.djvu}}
*[[/Volume 3|Volume III]] (1903) {{ssl|Acadiensis Q3.pdf}}
*[[/Volume 4|Volume IV]] (1904)
*[[/Volume 5|Volume V]] (1905) {{ssl|Acadiensis Q5.djvu}}
*[[/Volume 6|Volume VI]] (1906)
*[[/Volume 7|Volume VII]] (1907)
*[[/Volume 8|Volume VIII]] (1908)</text>
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    <title>Page:Kenilworth, vol. 2 (Edinburgh, 1821).djvu/114</title>
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{{dhr}}
{{fine block|{{ppoem|{{tooltip|Well, then—our course is chosen—spread the sail—|This is of Scott's own composition. It isn't from 'The Shipwreck' (1762) by William Falconer, which is written in rhyming couplets of iambic pentameter.}}
Heave oft the lead, and mark the soundings well—
Look to the helm, good master—many a shoal
Marks this stern coast, and rocks, where sits the Syren,
Who, like ambition, lures men to their ruin.
&gt;&gt;''The Shipwreck''.}}}}
{{dhr}}
{{sc|During}} the brief interval that intervened betwixt the dismissal of the audience and the sitting of the privy council, Leicester had time to reflect that he had that morning sealed his own fate. &quot;It was impossible for him now,&quot; he thought, &quot;after having, in the face of all that was honourable in England, pledged his truth (though in ambiguous phrase) for the statement of Varney, to contradict or disavow it, without exposing himself, not merely to the loss of court-favour, but to the highest displeasure of the Queen, his deceived mistress, and to the scorn and contempt at once of his rival and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{| class=&quot;tabletwo&quot; 
|-
!colspan=&quot;2&quot;; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | !! Liu !!  Bieng !! Giu !! Ke !! Da
|-
! 柳 !! 邊 !! 求 !! 氣 !! {{ts|br}} | 低
|-
| Chung || 春 || lung || bung || gung || kung || dung 
|-
| Hua   || 花 || lua || bua || gua || kua || dua 
|-
|  Hiong ||  香  ||  liong   ||  biong  ||  giong ||  kiong   || diong
|-
|  Chiu  ||  秋  ||  liu   ||   biu  ||  giu ||  kiu  ||diu
|-
|  Sang   ||  山  || lang  || bang  || gang  ||  kang  || dang
|-
| Ka  || 開 || lai  ||  bai  || gai  || kai  || dai
|-
| Ga  ||  嘉  || la  || ba  ||  ga || ka || da
|-
|  Bing  || 賓 ||  ling   || bing  || ging ||  king || ding
|-
|  Huang  ||  歡  || luang  || buang  || guang  ||  kuang || duang
|-
| Gò̤ || 歌 || lo̤  || bo̤  ||  go̤ || ko̤ || do̤
|-
| Sṳ || 須 || lṳ  || bṳ || gṳ || kṳ || dṳ
|-
| Buoi || 杯 || luoi  || buoi || guoi  || kuoi || duoi
|-
| Gu || 孤 || lu  || bu || gu  || ku || du
|-
| Deng || 燈 || leng  || beng || geng  || keng || deng
|-
| Guong || 光 || luong  || buong || guong  || kuong || duong
|-
| Hui || 輝 || lui  || bui || gui  || kui || dui
|-
| Sieu || 燒 || lieu  || bieu || gieu || kieu || dieu
|-
| Ngṳng || 銀 || lṳng  || bṳng || gṳng  || kṳng || dṳng
|-
|  ||  ||   ||  ||   ||  || 
|-
|  ||  ||   ||  ||   ||  || 
|-
|  ||  ||   ||  ||   ||  || 
|} 


  缸 
過 
鵄 
 聲 
催
 初 天&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Translation:Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala (1787)/Book 1</title>
    <ns>114</ns>
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      <comment>Author. For some reason, the &quot;originally in Spanish&quot; categories didn't automatically link so I added them manually.</comment>
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      <text bytes="2159" sha1="s2ypkyrveveiei4ki3cfjwpaeh790ae" xml:space="preserve">{{translation header
 | title       = Compendium of the grammar of the Tagalog language
 | author      = Gaspar de San Agustín
 | translator  = 
 | section     = On the Variation of Nouns and Verbs
 | previous    = 
 | next        = The Syntax of this Grammar
 | year        = 1787
 | language    = es
 | original    = 
 | notes       = 2nd edition. Original work published 1703.
 | categories = Grammar / Tagalog language / Philippines / Works originally in Spanish / Wikisource translations of works in Spanish
}}

&lt;div style=&quot;text-align:justify;&quot;&gt;
&lt;pages index=&quot;Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala.djvu
&quot; include=3/&gt;

{{Auxiliary Table of Contents|title=Book 1|comment=|
*[[#1.1|Chapter 1. On nouns.]]
#[[#1.1.1|On nouns]]
#[[#1.1.2|Example for proper nouns]]
#[[#1.1.3|Example for common nouns]]
#[[#1.1.4|On adjectival nouns]]
#[[#1.1.5|On primitive nouns]]
#[[#1.1.6|Adjectival and demonstrative pronouns]]
#[[#1.1.7|On relative [clauses]]]
#[[#1.1.8|On derivative pronouns]]
#[[#1.1.9|Comparatives and superlatives]]
#[[#1.1.10|On defective nouns]]
*[[#1.2|Chapter 2. On verbs.]]
#[[#1.2.1|On the substantive verb ''sum, es, fui'']]
#[[#1.2.2.|General rules for verbs.]]
#[[#1.2.3|Examples of the first active ''na'', root ''tolog'', sleep]]
#[[#1.2.4|Passive of the active with ''na'']]
*[[#1.3|Chapter 3. On the second active]]
#[[#1.3.1|On the second active]]
#[[#1.3.2|Passives of this active]]
#[[#1.3.3|On the active with ''um'']]
#[[#1.3.4|First example]]
#[[#1.3.5|On the passive which corresponds to the active]]
#[[#1.3.6|Example of the passive of a root which starts with a vowel]]
#[[#1.3.7|Example of the roots which begin with a consonant]]
#[[#1.3.8|Example of its passive]]
*[[#1.4|Chapter 4. On the conjugation of ''facere facere'' or ''facere fieri'']]
#[[#1.4.1|On the conjugation of ''facere facere'' or ''facere fieri'']]
#[[#1.4.2|On the second ''facere facere'']]
#[[#1.4.3|On the replacement of letters]]
#[[#1.4.4|On the frequentative verbals]]

}}

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{{translation license|original={{PD-old}}|translation={{CC-BY-4.0}}}}</text>
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 | deathyear    = &lt;!--data now imported from wikidata, please consider deleting once matched--&gt;
 | description  = American architect and writer.
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==Works==
* [[The Metropolis of Tomorrow]] (1929) {{sslThe Metropolis of Tomorrow.pdf}}

{{PD-US|1962}}</text>
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==Works==
* [[The Metropolis of Tomorrow]] (1929) {{ssl|The Metropolis of Tomorrow.pdf}}

{{PD-US|1962}}</text>
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 | notes      = An epic poem by Scottish poet William Falconer, first published in 1762
}}
* ''[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)|The Shipwreck]]'' (1762)

===Extracts===
* &quot;[[The Book of Scottish Song/The Shipwreck|The Shipwreck]]&quot;, in ''[[The Book of Scottish Song]]'' (1843), edited by [[Author:Alexander Whitelaw|Alexander Whitelaw]]</text>
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      <text bytes="2847" sha1="r08zlihymu68msqjhrf0ecamrkavb8g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Arcorann&quot; /&gt;{{rh|72|''MY CONNECTION WITH SILVER QUESTION BEGINS.''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and also introduced, and secured the adoption of, the following declaration:

{{fine block|Resolved, That it is the sense of this congress that all legal tender money of the United States should be made a full legal tender for all debts, public and private, any condition in the contract to the contrary notwithstanding; provided that this should not affect contracts already in existence.}}

On the 17th of September, 1891, I attended the Democratic State Convention held at Grand Island, Nebraska, and, as a member of the committee on resolutions, secured the adoption of the following plank:

{{fine block|We favor the free coinage of silver and demand that it shall be made a full legal tender for all debts, public and private; and we denounce as unjust and dishonest the provisions of the law recently enacted allowing parties to stipulate against payment in silver and silver certificates, thus setting up one standard for the rich man and another for the poor man.}}

The latter part of the plank reproduced the idea set forth in the resolution adopted by the Western States' Commercial Congress.

In the Spring of 1892 I attended the Democratic State Convention which was held at Omaha on April 14th. This Convention was called to select delegates to the Democratic National Convention. There was a strong sentiment in favor of Mr. Cleveland's renomination and the Convention was organized against silver but Mr. Cleveland's friends, knowing his position, were satisfied to avoid the question. I was made a member of the Resolutions Committee by a vote of the Convention and presented the following minority report:

{{fine block|We declare ourselves in favor of the free coinage of silver.}}

We had a warm contest over this plank, the vote when finally taken being so close that both sides claimed a majority and the roll was called a second time. On the second roll call the silver plank was declared lost but we have since had reason to believe that it was carried by a small majority. This Convention may be considered the beginning of the contest in Nebraska between the two wings of the Democratic party. I was at that time opposed to Mr. Cleveland's renomination because of his attitude on the money question and favored the nomination of Governor Boies, of Iowa, who was, in my judgment, nearest to our position.

I was renominated for Congress on the day before the meeting of the National Convention. My platform declared for free coinage and the question was made a special feature in the Congressional campaign. Just before the adjournment of the first session of the Fifty-second Congress, my attention was called to a bill introduced by Senator Sherman on the 14th day of July, 1892. The bill will be found in my third speech against unconstitutional repeal.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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*[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)/Advertisement|Advertisement]]
*[[The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)/The Shipwreck|The Shipwreck]]
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  <page>
    <title>Five Hundred Eskimo Words</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4796621</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132632</id>
      <parentid>15128448</parentid>
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      <text bytes="517" sha1="rbdfvoxhiapdhwb6nbt31s61snm7z9o" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = Five Hundred Eskimo Words
 | author      = Kaj Birket-Smith
 | year        = 1928
 | categories  = 
 | notes       = Volume 3, number 3 of ''[[Report of the Fifth Thule Expedition, 1921–24]]''
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu&quot; include=6 /&gt;

{{Auxiliary Table of Contents|
# [[/Chapter 1|Introduction]]
# [[/Chapter 2|Pronunciation]]
# [[/Chapter 3|The Dialects]]
# [[/Chapter 4|Vocabulary]]
# [[/Chapter 5|Notes]]
* [[/Bibliography|Bibliography]]
}}

{{PD-US|pubyear=1928}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Some African highways; a journey of two American women to Uganda and the Transvaal (IA someafricanhighw00kirk).pdf/27</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4797662</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131603</id>
      <parentid>14996248</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:15:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>AKibombo</username>
        <id>2912841</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15131603</origin>
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      <text bytes="1112" sha1="s2rgqi2hdb9d0uwknvfo1uyeguj7ho7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;AKibombo&quot; /&gt;{{c|HISTORICAL SKETCH|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Uganda, Mengo (now generally known as Kampala). The then King of Uganda, M’tesa, sent him to the north outlet of the lake, where these two explorers were the first modern white men to see that great initial swirl of the Nile over the lip of the lake, as the famous river starts on its way northward. They named this drop the Falls of Ripon, though it can hardly be considered as more than a cataract. The native name for the river was Kivira, while the lake was called Ukéréwé.

It was a lucky leap in the dark on the part of Speke and Grant to say that this was the real beginning of the Nile. They did little to verify their theory, but subsequent discoveries proved
them right, and so they get the credit for it. They, and all those early explorers, however,
deserve much praise and respect for the dangers, trials, and discomforts which they met and
overcame. The footsteps which they made with such pains and labor in the jungles and forests, and on the plains of tropical Africa, have since been trodden down and out by so many other adventurous explorers of diverse&lt;noinclude&gt;

{{c|13|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Some African highways; a journey of two American women to Uganda and the Transvaal (IA someafricanhighw00kirk).pdf/28</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4797663</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131606</id>
      <parentid>14996252</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:17:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>AKibombo</username>
        <id>2912841</id>
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      <text bytes="1075" sha1="mcwneuc3px3pgu5ekb00xiph3w25oze" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;AKibombo&quot; /&gt;{{rh||'''SOME AFRICAN HIGHWAYS'''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;nationalities that the road has become a broad highway, with well equipped trains and steamers to convey an ever-increasing throng to those once forbidding and inaccessible regions.

Because we have not a continuous record in European languages of the vast territory of East and Central Africa does not mean that it has not had a progressing history. It is far older in obtainable chronicle than either of the American continents. The navigators of ancient times came in their galleys down this East Coast. Solomon’s mines are by common consent placed in this region. While his illustrious guest, the Queen of Sheba, is supposed by many to have come from this same part of the world to do him homage.

Fer centuries the Arabs have controlled the fortunes and trade of this enormously rich territory. The influences of their language, customs, and traditions are to-day to be observed on every hand in studying the natives of East Africa.

The principal tribe there are the Swahilis, descendants of Arabs, Persians and Africans.&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{c|14|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mcwneuc3px3pgu5ekb00xiph3w25oze</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4798506</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132634</id>
      <parentid>15094448</parentid>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <text bytes="767" sha1="rz4iva53ro9pah0lu9q8edo2qtqxkph" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos
 | author      = Knud Rasmussen
 | translator  = W. W. Worster
 | year        = 1929
 | categories  = Anthropology / Inuit / Canada
 | notes       = Volume 7, number 1 of ''[[Report of the Fifth Thule Expedition, 1921–24]]''
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu&quot; include=7 /&gt;
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{{padded page break}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu&quot; include=346 /&gt;

{{translation licence| original = {{PD-US}} |translation = {{PD-US|pubyear=1929}}}}</text>
      <sha1>rz4iva53ro9pah0lu9q8edo2qtqxkph</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Author:Jeremiah Simpson Clark</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
    <id>4799260</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132224</id>
      <parentid>14999950</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:01:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <comment>/* Works */ add work</comment>
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      <text bytes="780" sha1="gcfs3b8isixononimt09k9x86c37jxs" xml:space="preserve">{{author
 | firstname    = Jeremiah Simpson
 | lastname     = Clark
 | last-initial = Cl
 | birthyear    = &lt;!--data now imported from wikidata, please consider deleting once matched--&gt;
 | deathyear    = &lt;!--data now imported from wikidata, please consider deleting once matched--&gt;
 | description  = 
}}

==Works==
* ''Rand and the Micmacs'' (1899) {{ssl|Rand and the Micmacs (microform) (IA cihm 00663).pdf}}
* &quot;[[Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 2/Glooscap|Glooscap: The First Acadien Exile]]&quot; in ''[[Acadiensis]]'', [[Acadiensis/Volume 2|vol. II]], [[Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 2|no. 2]] (April 1902)
* ''The Acadian Exile and Sea Shell Essays'' (1902) {{ext scan link|https://www.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.9_91196}}

{{PD/US|1950}}
{{authority control}}

[[Category:Canadian authors]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>The Caribou Eskimos</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4805119</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132631</id>
      <parentid>15127571</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:47:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>remove work category</comment>
      <origin>15132631</origin>
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      <text bytes="1378" sha1="psnnysmy33dlnpx2jctacupm1221gyp" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = The Caribou Eskimos: Material and Social Life and Their Cultural Position
 | author     = Kaj Birket-Smith
 | translator = William Ernest Calvert | translator-display = W. E. Calvert
 | year       = 1929
 | categories = 
 | notes      = Volume 5 of ''[[Report of the Fifth Thule Expedition, 1921–24]]''
}}

# [[/Part 1/]]: Descriptive Part
#* [[/Part 1/Introduction|Introduction]]
## [[/Part 1/Chapter 1|Chapter 1]]: Geographical Surroundings and Natural Resources
## [[/Part 1/Chapter 2|Chapter 2]]: Habitation and Dwellings
## [[/Part 1/Chapter 3|Chapter 3]]: Economic Life
## [[/Part 1/Chapter 4|Chapter 4]]: Communication
## [[/Part 1/Chapter 5|Chapter 5]]: Clothing and Personal Adornment
## [[/Part 1/Chapter 6|Chapter 6]]: Manufactures and Decorative Art
## [[/Part 1/Chapter 7|Chapter 7]]: Social Life
# [[/Part 2/]]: Analytical Part
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 1|Chapter 1]]: Coast and Inland Population
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 2|Chapter 2]]: The Cultural Position of the Caribou Eskimos in Comparison with other Eskimos
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 3|Chapter 3]]: The Cultural Position of the Caribou Eskimos within the Circumpolar Culture Region
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 4|Chapter 4]]: Features of the Development of Circumpolar Culture with Especial Reference to the Eskimos
#* [[/Part 2/Tables|Tables]]
#* [[/Bibliography|Bibliography]]

{{PD-US|pubyear=1929}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Index:The Bayonne Herald 21 Sep 1872.png</title>
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      <comment>Done</comment>
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|Volume=
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Bayonne Herald 21 Sep 1872.png</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4807469</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132499</id>
      <parentid>15025278</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:40:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
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      <text bytes="2065" sha1="s6u3qskrmea8pgrcs8067fcvwyf3t7i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{sc|A Dangerous Whirlpool}}.—A correspondent 
of the Baltimore ''American'' gives 
the following account of a {{SIC|whirpool|whirlpool}} at the 
mouth of the St. Croix river, which runs 
between Maine and New Brunswick: &quot;It 
has been stated by travellers and recorded 
in history that a whirlpool called the 
Charyodis exists on the Greek coast, or 
rather on the coast of Italy, and the Maelstrom 
of Norway; but it is somewhat singular 
that a dangerous whirlpool has 
always existed and still continues to 
frighten and be cautiously avoided by 
boatmen and fisherman without a single 
chronicler to state its whereabouts and its 
dangers. This whirlpool performs its antics 
at the entrance of the St. Croix River 
about midway between Deer Island and 
Dog Island, where the channel is very narrow, 
and a rapid, six knot current prevails 
on the flood tide. Indian River flows at 
right angles with the St. Croix, striking it 
immediately at the entrance, rushing by 
the projecting point of Deer Island with 
great velocity. These causes, added to the 
counter current of the eddies, running 
nearly as swift as the food tide, and huge 
boulders, supposed to lie at the bottom 
along the centre of the turbulent waters, 
form the whirlpool. The tides in this locality 
rise and fall from twenty-five to 
thirty feet, and at half tide the roar and 
rush of waters can be distinctly heard for 
ten miles along the shore. I have seen 
large logs and timber standing perpendicular 
in spiral embrace, and many fisherman 
and other persons have been swallowed up 
in their treacherous folds. In 1830 three 
men in a large two mast boat were seen 
by parties on both sides of the river to go 
into these whirlpools. The boat, after 
going round several times, went down and 
the {{SIC|unfortuuate|unfortunate}} parties perished, and 
although not three hundred yards from 
the shore no power could save them. When 
the boat came to the surface, large holes 
were observed in her bottom. On the 
ebbing of the tide they are not {{SIC|dangerous|dangerous.|nodash}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>s6u3qskrmea8pgrcs8067fcvwyf3t7i</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132501</id>
      <parentid>15132499</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:40:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Paragraph in 1 line.</comment>
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      <text bytes="2018" sha1="504opaqjsl96cdnzh5dcm84q626obsg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{sc|A Dangerous Whirlpool}}.—A correspondent of the Baltimore ''American'' gives the following account of a {{SIC|whirpool|whirlpool}} at the mouth of the St. Croix river, which runs between Maine and New Brunswick: &quot;It has been stated by travellers and recorded in history that a whirlpool called the Charyodis exists on the Greek coast, or rather on the coast of Italy, and the Maelstrom of Norway; but it is somewhat singular that a dangerous whirlpool has always existed and still continues to frighten and be cautiously avoided by boatmen and fisherman without a single chronicler to state its whereabouts and its dangers. This whirlpool performs its antics at the entrance of the St. Croix River about midway between Deer Island and Dog Island, where the channel is very narrow, and a rapid, six knot current prevails on the flood tide. Indian River flows at right angles with the St. Croix, striking it immediately at the entrance, rushing by the projecting point of Deer Island with great velocity. These causes, added to the counter current of the eddies, running nearly as swift as the food tide, and huge boulders, supposed to lie at the bottom along the centre of the turbulent waters, form the whirlpool. The tides in this locality rise and fall from twenty-five to thirty feet, and at half tide the roar and rush of waters can be distinctly heard for ten miles along the shore. I have seen large logs and timber standing perpendicular in spiral embrace, and many fisherman and other persons have been swallowed up in their treacherous folds. In 1830 three men in a large two mast boat were seen by parties on both sides of the river to go into these whirlpools. The boat, after going round several times, went down and the {{SIC|unfortuuate|unfortunate}} parties perished, and although not three hundred yards from the shore no power could save them. When the boat came to the surface, large holes were observed in her bottom. On the ebbing of the tide they are not {{SIC|dangerous|dangerous.|nodash}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>504opaqjsl96cdnzh5dcm84q626obsg</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Index:The New Brunswick Courier - The Courier 10 Apr 1830.png</title>
    <ns>106</ns>
    <id>4807620</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132478</id>
      <parentid>15024724</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:20:14Z</timestamp>
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      <comment>Done</comment>
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      <text bytes="90" sha1="2vjyqo65tgi7n9niw93v43ej4qlpere" xml:space="preserve">{{:MediaWiki:Proofreadpage_index_template
|Type=book
|Title=[[Melancholy Accidents]], [[New Brunswick Courier]]
|Language=en
|Volume=
|Author=
|Translator=
|Editor=
|Illustrator=
|School=
|Publisher=
|Address=
|Year=1830
|Key=
|ISBN=
|OCLC=
|LCCN=
|BNF_ARK=
|ARC=
|DOI=
|Source=png
|Image=1
|Progress=T
|Transclusion=yes
|Validation_date=June 2025
|Pages=&lt;pagelist /&gt;
|Volumes=
|Remarks=
|Width=
|Header=
|Footer=
|tmplver=
}}</text>
      <sha1>2vjyqo65tgi7n9niw93v43ej4qlpere</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The New Brunswick Courier - The Courier 10 Apr 1830.png</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4807621</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132477</id>
      <parentid>15024669</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:18:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>M-le-mot-dit</username>
        <id>95366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132477</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="683" sha1="b3ou4fy2zrmhr3x36lhl09i28zlgov9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;M-le-mot-dit&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;''Melancholy Accidents.''—On the forenoon of Sunday the 28th ult. three brothers, sons of a widow, named {{sc|Stovers}}, resident on Deer Island, were returning in a boat from Beaver Harbour to their home. When they arrived at Whirlpool Point, so called, the boat was seen from a vessel at no great distance to sink in the whirl, and afterwards to rise, and it was thought two men were upon her. A boat was sent from the vessel with all possible expedition to their relief, but the former boat with the persons immediately sunk a second time, and the whole three brothers perished. The wreck of the boat has since been picked up, but the bodies have not been found.—''City Gaz.''&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>b3ou4fy2zrmhr3x36lhl09i28zlgov9</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/95</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4812780</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132801</id>
      <parentid>15038712</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:02:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>950405</id>
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      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1398" sha1="732172ou4706sln1cusqqjyso4wlmrk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{C|{{asc|Chapter IX}}{{br}}
''Tad's Blind Man''}}

{{di|M}}{{sc|adison Andrews}} was a tall gaunt man of sixty with ragged white hair, eyebrows, and mustache that exaggerated the ruddiness of his bony hard-muscled face. He wore his clothes loose, chewed tobacco, and had twice in the past ten years been publicly named co-respondent in divorce suits.

“I dare say young Collinson has babbled all sorts of
nonsense to you,” he said. “He seems to think I'm in my second childhood, as good as told me so.” 

“I haven’t seen him,” I said. “I’ve only been back in town a couple of hours, long enough to go to the office and then come here.”

“Well,” he said, “he is her fiancé, but I am responsible for her, and I preferred following Doctor Riese’s counsel. He is her physician. He said that letting her go to the Temple for a short stay would do more to restore her to mental health than anything else we could do. I couldn’t disregard his advice. The Haldorns may be, probably are, charlatans, but Joseph Haldorn is certainly the only person to whom Gabrielle has willingly talked, and in whose company she has seemed at peace, since her parents’ deaths. Doctor Riese said that to cross her in her desire to go to the Temple would be to send her mind deeper into its illness. Could I snap my fingers at his opinion because young Collinson didn’t like it?”
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/96</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4812796</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132842</id>
      <parentid>15038747</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:23:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132842</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1727" sha1="1k9dgnu3p0ewq86otlvfecyf9y5cvr5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|84|||{{asc|Something Black|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I said: “No.”

“I have no illusions concerning the cult,” he went on defending himself. “It is probably as full of quackery as any other. But we are not concerned with its religious aspect. We're interested in it as therapeutics, as a cure for Gabrielle’s mind. Even if the character of its membership were not such that I could count with certainty on Gabrielle’s safety, I should still have been tempted to let her go. Her recovery is, as I see it, the thing with which we should be most concerned, and nothing else should be allowed to interfere with that.”

He was worried. I nodded and kept quiet, waiting to learn what was worrying him. I got it little by little as he went on talking around in circles.

On Doctor Riese’s advice and over Collinson’s protests he had let Gabrielle Leggett go to the Temple of the Holy Grail to stay awhile. She had wanted to go, no less prominently respectable a person than Mrs. Livingston Rodman was staying there at the time, the Haldorns had been Edgar Leggett’s friends: Andrews let her go. That had been six days ago. She had taken the mulatto, Minnie Hershey, with her as maid. Doctor Riese had gone to see her each day. On four days he hed found her improved. On the fifth day her condition had alarmed him. Her mind was more completely dazed than it had ever been, and she had the symptoms of one who had been subjected to some sort of shock. He couldn’t get anything out of her. He couldn’t get anything out of Minnie. He couldn’t get anything out of the Haldorns. He had no way of learning what had happened, or if anything had happened.

Eric Collinson had held Riese up for daily reports&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1k9dgnu3p0ewq86otlvfecyf9y5cvr5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/97</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4812804</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132851</id>
      <parentid>15038763</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:27:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */  add italics</comment>
      <origin>15132851</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1732" sha1="7pph26icxxuu1flxeg0kq562hghq1r9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|85|||{{asc|TAD’S BLIND MAN|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;on Gabrielle. Riese told him the truth about his last visit. Collinson hit the ceiling. He wanted the girl taken away from the Temple immediately: the Haldorns were preparing to murder her, according to his notion. He and Andrews had a swell row. Andrews thought that the girl has simply suffered a relapse from which she would most speedily recover if left where she wished to stay. Riese was inclined to agree with Andrews. Collinson didn’t. He threatened to create a stink if they didn’t yank her away ''pronto''.

That worried Andrews. It wouldn’t look so good for him, the hard-headed lawyer, letting his ward go to such a place, if anything happened to her. On the other hand, he said he really believed it was for her benefit to stay there. And he didn’t want anything to happen to her. He finally reached a compromise with Collinson. Gabrielle should be allowed to remain in the Temple for a few more days at least, but somebody should be put in there to keep an eye on her, and to see that the Haldorns weren’t playing any tricks on her.

Riese had suggested me: my luck in hitting on the manner of Leggett’s death had impressed him. Collinson had objected that my brutality was largely responsible for Gabrielle’s present condition, but he had finally given in. I already knew Gabrielle and her history, and I hadn’t made such a total mess of that first job: my efficiency offset my brutality, or words to that effect. So Andrews had phoned the Old Man, offered him a high enough rate to justify pulling me off another job, and there I was.

“The Haldorns know you are coming,” Andrews wound up. “It doesn’t matter what they think about&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7pph26icxxuu1flxeg0kq562hghq1r9</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/98</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4812812</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132859</id>
      <parentid>15038776</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:30:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */  fanatica -&gt; fanatics</comment>
      <origin>15132859</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1677" sha1="q6hq2fnwibrncx7nlr3dd1b76f6og7w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|86|||{{asc|Something Black|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;it. I simply told them that Doctor Riese and I had decided that, until Gabrielle’s mind became more settled, it would be best to have a competent man on hand in case of emergency, as much perhaps to safeguard others as her. There is no need of my giving you instructions. It is simply a matter of taking every precaution.”

“Does Miss Leggett know I’m coming?”

“No, and I don’t think we need say anything to her about it. You'll make your watch over her as unobtrusive as possible, of course, and I doubt that she will, in her present state of mind, pay enough attention to your presence to resent it. If she does—well, we'll see.”

Andrews gave me a note to Aaronia Haldorn.

An hour and a half later I was sitting opposite her in the Temple reception room while she read it. She put it aside and offered me long Russian cigarettes in a white jade box. I apologized for sticking to my Fatimas, and worked the lighter on the smoking stand she pushed out between us. When our cigarettes were burning, she said:

“We shall try to make you as comfortable as possible. We are neither barbarians nor fanatics. I explain this because so many people are surprised to find us neither. This is a temple, but none of us supposes that happiness, comfort, or any of the ordinary matters of civilized living, will desecrate it. You are not one of us. Perhaps—I hope—you will become one of us. However—do not squirm—you won’t, I assure you, be annoyed. You may attend our services or not, as you choose, and you may come and go as you wish. You will show us, I am sure, the same consideration we show&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>q6hq2fnwibrncx7nlr3dd1b76f6og7w</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/99</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4812814</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132901</id>
      <parentid>15038783</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:51:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */  net -&gt; not</comment>
      <origin>15132901</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1397" sha1="bdhwn2lcaml4b6m5a45owrn37dz48ot" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|87|||{{asc|TAD’S BLIND MAN|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;you, and I am equally sure that you will not interfere in any way with anything you may see—no matter how peculiar you may think it—so long as it does not promise to affect your—patient.”

“Of course not,” I promised.

She smiled, as if to thank me, rubbed her cigarette’s end in the ash tray, and stood up, saying: “I'll show you your room.”

Not a word had been said by either of us about my previous visit.

Carrying my hat and gladstone bag, I followed her to the elevator. We got out at the fifth floor.

“That is Miss Leggett’s room,” Aaronia Haldorn said, indicating the door that Collinson and I had taken turns knocking a couple of weeks before. “And this is yours.” She opened the door that faced Gabrielle’s across the corridor. 

My room was a duplicate of hers, except that it was without a dressing-room. My door, like hers, had no lock.

“Where does her maid sleep?” I asked.

“In one of the servant’s rooms on the top floor. Doctor Riese is with Miss Leggett now, I think. I'll tell him you have arrived.”

I thanked her. She went out of my room, closing the door.

Fifteen minutes later Doctor Riese knocked and came in.

“I am glad you are here,” he said, shaking hands. He had a crisp, precise way of turning out his words, sometimes emphasizing them by gesturing with the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bdhwn2lcaml4b6m5a45owrn37dz48ot</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/100</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4812822</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132965</id>
      <parentid>15038800</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:23:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */  honestiy -&gt; honestly</comment>
      <origin>15132965</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1546" sha1="myik21bsmepq5kauoperkzpplm3mblc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|88|||{{asc|Something Black|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;black-ribboned glasses in his hand. I never saw the glasses on his nose. “We shan’t need your professional skill, I trust, but I am glad you are here.”

“What's wrong?” I asked in what was meant for a tone that invited confidences.

He looked sharply at me, tapped his glasses on his left thumb-nail, and said:

“What is wrong is, so far as I know, altogether in my sphere. I know of nothing else wrong.” He shook my hand again. “You'll find your part quite boring, I hope.”

“But yours isn’t?” I suggested.

He stopped turning away towards the door, frowned, tapped his glasses with his thumb-nail again, and said:

“No, it is not.” He hesitated, as if deciding whether to say something more, decided not to, and moved to the door.

“I've a right to know what you honestly think about it,” I said.

He looked sharply at me again. “I don’t know what I honestly think about it.” A pause. “I am not satisfied.” He didn’t look satisfied. “I'll be in again this evening.”

He went out and shut the door. Half a minute later he opened the door, said, “Miss Leggett is extremely ill,” shut the door again and went away.

I grumbled, “This is going to be a lot of fun,” to myself, sat down at a window and smoked a cigarette.

A maid in black and white knocked on the door and asked me what I wanted for luncheon. She was a hearty pink and plump blonde somewhere in the middle twenties, with blue eyes that looked curiously at me and had&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>myik21bsmepq5kauoperkzpplm3mblc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/101</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4812830</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132974</id>
      <parentid>15038834</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:26:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132974</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1560" sha1="lvaf893zzo39ngkteyaaxmfv7k7povd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|89|||{{asc|TAD’S BLIND MAN|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;jokes in them. I took a shot of Scotch from the bottle in my bag, ate the luncheon the maid presently returned with, and spent the afternoon in my room.

By keeping my ears open I managed to catch Minnie as she came out of her mistress’s room at a little after four. The mulatto’s eyes jerked wide when she saw me standing in my doorway.

“Come in,” I said. “Didn’t Doctor Riese tell you I was here?”

“No, sir. Are—are you——? You’re not wanting anything with Miss Gabrielle?”

“Just looking out for her, seeing that nothing happens to her. And if you’ll keep me wised up, let me know what she says and does, and what others say and do, you’ll be helping me, and helping her; because then I won’t have to bother her.”

The mulatto said, “Yes, yes,” readily enough, but, as far as I could learn from her brown face, my cöoperative idea wasn’t getting across any too well.

“How is she this afternoon?” I asked.

“She’s right cheerful this afternoon, sir. She like this place.”

“How'd she spend the afternoon?”

“She——I don’t know, sir. She just kind of spent it—quiet like.”

Not much news there. I said:

“Doctor {{SIC|Reise|Riese}} thinks she’ll be better off not knowing I'm here, so you needn’t say anything to her about me.”

“No, sir, I sure won’t,” she promised, but it sounded more polite than sincere.

In the early evening Aaronia Haldorn came in and invited me down to dinner. The dining-room was paneled&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lvaf893zzo39ngkteyaaxmfv7k7povd</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/102</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4812837</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132987</id>
      <parentid>15038855</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:32:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132987</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1632" sha1="riy2mbtuqeffvak58o9ge6z1zn4gujc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|90|||{{asc|Something Black|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and furnished in dark walnut. There were ten of us at the table.

Joseph Haldorn was tall, built like a statue, and wore a black silk robe. His hair was thick, long, white, and glossy. His thick beard, trimmed round, was white and glossy. Aaronia Haldorn introduced me to him, calling him, “Joseph,” as if he had no last name. All the others addressed him in the same way. He gave me a white even-toothed smile and a warm strong hand. His face, healthily pink, was without line or wrinkle. It was a tranquil face, especially the clear brown eyes, somehow making you feel at peace with the world. The same soothing quality was in his baritone voice.

He said: “We are happy to have you here.”

The words were merely polite, meaningless, yet, as he said them, I actually believed that for some reason he was happy. Now I understood Gabrielle Leggett’s desire to come to this place. I said that I, too, was happy to be there, and while I was saying it I actually thought I was.

Besides Joseph and his wife and their son at the table there was Mrs. Rodman, a tall frail woman with transparent skin, faded eyes, and a voice that never rose above a murmur; a man named Fleming, who was young, dark, very thin, and wore a dark mustache and the detached air of one busy with his own thoughts; Major Jeffries, a well-tailored, carefully mannered man, stout and bald and sallow; his wife, a pleasant sort of person in spite of a kittenishness thirty years too young for her; a Miss Hillen, sharp of chin and voice, with an intensely eager manner; and Mrs. Pavlov, who was&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>riy2mbtuqeffvak58o9ge6z1zn4gujc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/103</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4812846</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133002</id>
      <parentid>15038870</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:41:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */  missing paragraph break</comment>
      <origin>15133002</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1507" sha1="38huklsoubhbsca8dzu1i2bkkbg8h2v" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|91|||{{asc|TAD'S BLIND MAN|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;quite young, had a high-cheek-boned dark face, and avoided everybody's eyes.

The food, served by two Filipino boys, was good. There was not much conversation and none of it was religious. It wasn't so bad.

After dinner I returned to my room. I listened at Gabrielle Leggett's door for a few minutes, but heard nothing. In my room I fidgeted and smoked and waited for Doctor Riese to show up as he had promised. He didn't show up. I supposed that one of the emergencies that are regular parts of doctors' lives had kept him elsewhere, but his not coming made me irritable. Nobody went in or out of Gabrielle's room. I tiptoed over to listen at her door a couple of times. Once I heard nothing. Once I heard faint meaningless rustling sounds.

At a little after ten o'clock I heard some of the inmates going past my door, probably on their way to their rooms for the night. 

At five minutes past eleven I heard Gabrielle's door open. I opened mine. Minnie Hershey was going down the corridor toward the rear of the building. I was tempted to call her, but didn't. My last attempt to get anything out of her had been a flop, and I wasn't feeling tactful enough now to stand much chance of having better luck.

By this time I had given up hopes of seeing Riese before the following day.

I switched off my lights, left my door open, and sat there in the dark, looking at the girl's door and cursing the world. I thought of Tad's blind man in a dark&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>38huklsoubhbsca8dzu1i2bkkbg8h2v</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/104</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4812860</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133055</id>
      <parentid>15038920</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:44:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133055</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1379" sha1="ouyg64ld5w9eovocldh5svf47uj2lk7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|92|||{{asc|Something Black|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;room hunting for a black hat that wasn’t there, and knew how he felt.

At a little before midnight Minnie Hershey, in hat and coat as if she had just come in from the street, returned to Gabrielle’s room. She didn’t seem to see me. I stood up silently and tried to peep past her when she opened the door, but didn’t have any luck.

Minnie remained there until nearly one o’clock, and when she came out she closed the door very softly, walking tiptoe. That was an unnecessary precaution on the thick carpet. Because it was unnecessary it made me nervous. I went to my door and called in a low voice:

“Minnie.”

Maybe she didn’t hear me. She went on tiptoeing down the corridor. That increased my jumpiness. I went after her quickly and stopped her by catching one of her wiry wrists.

Her Indian face was expressionless.

“How is she?” I asked.

“Miss Gabrielle’s all right, sir. You just leave her alone,” she mumbled.

“She’s not all right. What's she doing now?”

“She’s sleeping.”

“Coked?”

She raised angry maroon eyes and let them drop again, saying nothing.

“She sent you out to get dope?” I demanded, tightening my grip on her wrist.

“She sent me out to get some—some medicine—yes, sir.”

“And took some and went to sleep?”

“Y-yes, sir.”
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/105</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4812871</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133063</id>
      <parentid>15038931</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:58:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133063</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1120" sha1="poy0tqgum9uhemxt1t1h9hvutbj2phm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|93|||{{asc|TAD’S BLIND MAN|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;“We'll go back and take a look at her,” I said.

The mulatto tried to jerk her wrist free. I held it. She said:

“You leave me alone, Mister, or else I'll yell.”

“I'll leave you alone after we’ve had our look, maybe,” I said, turning her around with my other hand on her shoulder. “So if you’re going to yell you can get started right now.”

She wasn’t willing to go back to her mistress’s room, but she didn’t make me drag her. Gabrielle Leggett was lying on her side in bed, sleeping quietly, the bedclothes stirring gently with her breathing. Her small white face, at rest, with brown curls falling over it, looked like a sick child’s.

I turned Minnie loose and went back to my room. Sitting there in the dark I understood why people bit their fingernails. I sat there for an hour or more, and then, God-damning myself for an old woman, I took off my shoes, picked the most comfortable chair, put my feet on another, hung a blanket over me, and went to sleep facing Gabrielle Leggett’s door through my open doorway.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>poy0tqgum9uhemxt1t1h9hvutbj2phm</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/106</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813026</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133147</id>
      <parentid>15039930</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:12:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */  sc -&gt; asc in chapter heading</comment>
      <origin>15133147</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1368" sha1="tdz9b1be1i47lz824tx2j35egkmfqod" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{C|{{asc|Chapter X}}{{br}}
''Dead Flowers''}}

{{di|I}} {{sc|opened}} my eyes drowsily, decided that I had dozed off for only a moment, closed my eyes, drifted back into slumber, and then roused myself sluggishly again. Something wasn’t right.

I forced my eyes open, then closed them, and opened them again. Whatever wasn’t right had to do with that. Blackness was there when they were open and when they were closed. That should have been reasonable enough: the night was dark, and my windows were out of the street lights’ range. That should have been reasonable enough, but it wasn’t: I remembered that I had left my door open, and the corridor lights had been on. Facing me was no pale rectangle of light framed by my doorway, with Gabrielle’s door showing through.

I was too awake by now to jump up suddenly. I held my breath and listened, hearing nothing but the tick of my wrist-watch. Cautiously moving my hand, I looked at the luminous dial—3:17. I had been asleep longer than I had supposed, and the corridor light had been put out. 

My head was numb, my body stiff and heavy, and there was a bad taste in my mouth. I got out from under the blanket, and out of my chairs, moving awkwardly, my muscles stubborn. I crept on stockinged feet to the door, and bumped into the door. It had been closed. When I opened it the corridor light was burn-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tdz9b1be1i47lz824tx2j35egkmfqod</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/107</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813242</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133171</id>
      <parentid>15039936</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:15:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133171</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="1683" sha1="3utm585p5bed2vin7hw77moepxtvd4m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|95|||{{asc|DEAD FLOWERS|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ing as before. The air that came in from the corridor seemed surprisingly fresh, sharp, pure.

I turned my face back into the room, sniffing. There was an odor of flowers, faint, stuffy, more the odor of a closed place in which flowers had died than of flowers themselves. Lilies of the valley, moonflowers, perhaps another one or two. I spent time trying to divide the odor into its parts, seriously trying to determine whether a trace of honeysuckle was actually present. Then I vaguely remembered having dreamed of a funeral. Trying to recall exactly what I had dreamed, I leaned against the door-frame and let sleep come into me again.

The jerking up of my neck muscles when my head had sunk too low aroused me. I wrestled my eyes open, standing there on legs that weren't part of me, stupidly wondering why I didn't go to bed. While I drowsed over the idea that there might be some reason why I shouldn't sleep, if I could only think of it, I put a hand against the wall to steady myself. The hand touched the light button. I had sense enough to push it.

Light scorched my eyes. Squinting, I could see a world that was real to me, and could remember that I had work to do. I made for the bathroom, where cold water on head and face left me still stupid and muddled, but at least partly conscious.

I turned off my lights, crossed to Gabrielle's door, listened, and heard nothing. I opened the door, stepped inside, and closed the door. My flashlight showed me an empty bed with covers thrown down across the foot. I put a hand in the hollow her body had made in the bed—cold. There was nobody in bathroom or dressing-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/108</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133213</id>
      <parentid>15039948</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:19:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133213</origin>
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      <text bytes="1759" sha1="sy79lhcn5mwayi5vkab2uua46lvzib6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|96|||{{asc|Something Black|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;alcove. Under the edge of the bed lay a pair of green mules, and a green dressing-gown, or something of the sort, was hanging over the back of a chair.

I went to my room for my shoes, and then walked down the front stairs, intending to go through the house from bottom to top. I would go silently first, and then, if, as was likely enough, I ran across nothing, I could start kicking in doors, turning people out of bed, and raising hell till I turned up the girl. I wanted to find her as soon as possible, but she had too long a start for a few minutes to make much difference now; so if I didn’t waste any time, neither did I run.

I was half-way between the second and first floors when I saw something move below—or, rather, saw the movement of something without actually seeing it. It moved from the direction of the street-door towards the interior of the house. I was looking towards the elevator at the time as I walked down the stairs. The banister shut off my view of the street-door. What I saw was a flash of movement across half a dozen of the spaces between the banister’s uprights. By the time I had brought my eyes into focus there, there was nothing to see. I thought I had seen a face, but that’s what anybody would have thought in my position, and all I had actually seen was the movement of something pale.

The lobby, and what I could see of the corridors, were vacant when I reached the ground-floor. I started towards the rear of the building, and stopped. I heard, for the first time since I had awakened, a noise that I hadn't made. A shoe-sole had scuffed on the stone steps the other side of the street-door.

I walked to the front door, got one hand on the bolt,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/109</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813257</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133241</id>
      <parentid>15039979</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:22:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133241</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1671" sha1="oc9rch6q2vtoejeyuauqzlpj0eof4tm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|97|||{{asc|DEAD FLOWERS|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the other hand on the latch, snapped them back together, and yanked the door open with my left hand, letting my right hang within a twist of my gun.

Eric Collinson stood on the top step.

“What the hell are you doing here?” I asked sourly.

It was a long story, and he was too excited to make it a clear one. As nearly as I could untangle it from his words, he had been in the habit of phoning Doctor Riese daily for reports on Gabrielle’s progress. Today—or rather yesterday—and last night, he had failed to get the doctor on the wire. He had called up as late as two o’clock this morning. Doctor Riese was not at home, he had been told, and none of the household knew where he was or why he was not at home. Collinson had then, after the two-o’clock call, come to the neighborhood of the Temple, on the chance that he might see me and get some word of the girl. He hadn’t intended, he said, coming to the door until he saw me looking out.

“Until you did what?” I asked.

“Saw you.”

“When?”

“A minute ago, when you looked out.”

“You didn’t see me,” I said. “What did you see?”

“Somebody looking out, peeping out. I thought it was you, and came up from the corner where I was sitting in the car. Is Gabrielle all right?”

“Sure,” I said. There was no use telling him I was hunting for her, and have him blow up on me. “Don’t talk so loud. Riese’s people don’t know where he is?”

“No—they seem worried. But that’s all right if Gabrielle’s all right.” He put a hand on my upper arm. “Could—could I see her? Just for a second? I won’t&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/110</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813258</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133270</id>
      <parentid>15039982</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:28:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133270</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1622" sha1="tu69mmk8hmhgnncsmyjv07nhbrg39ob" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|98|||{{asc|Something Black|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;say anything. She needn’t even know I’ve seen her. I don’t mean now—but can’t you arrange it?”

This bird was young, tall, strong, and perfectly willing to have himself broken into pieces for Gabrielle Leggett. I knew something was wrong. I didn’t know what. I didn’t know what I would have to do to make it right, and how much help I would need. I couldn’t afford to turn him away. On the other hand, I couldn’t give him the low-down on the racket—that would have turned him into a wild man. I said:

“Come in. I’m on an inspection trip. You can go along if you keep quiet, and afterwards we'll see what we can do.”

He came in, looking and acting as if I were St. Peter letting him into Heaven. I closed the door and led him through the lobby, down the main corridor. So far as we could see we had the joint to ourselves. And then we didn’t.

Gabrielle Leggett came around a corner just ahead of us. She was barefooted. Her only clothing was a yellow silk nightgown that was splashed with dark stains. In both hands, held out in front of her as she walked, she carried a large dagger, almost a sword. It was red and wet. Her hands and bare arms were red and wet. There was a dab of blood on one of her cheeks. Her eyes were clear, bright, and calm. Her small forehead was smooth, her mouth and chin firmly set.

She walked up to me, her untroubled gaze holding my probably troubled one, and said evenly, just as if she had expected to find me there, had come there to find me:

“Take it. It is evidence. I killed him.”
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/111</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813276</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133278</id>
      <parentid>15040032</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:30:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133278</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1521" sha1="g5wjgkjsuhe5h37825hr04734f3htec" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|99|||{{asc|DEAD FLOWERS|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I said: “Huh?”

Still looking straight into my eyes, she said:

“You are a detective. Take me to where they will hang me.”

It was easier to move my hand than my tongue. I took the bloody dagger from her. It was a broad, thick-bladed weapon, double-edged, with a bronze hilt like a cross.

Eric Collinson pushed past me, babbling words that nobody could have made out, going for the girl with shaking outstretched hands. She shrank over against the wall, away from him, fear in her face.

“Don’t let him touch me,” she begged.

“Gabrielle,” he cried, reaching for her.

“No, no,” she panted.

I walked into his arms, my body between him and her, facing him, pressing him back with a hand against his chest, growling at him: “Be still, you.”

He took my shoulders in his big brown hands and began pushing me out of the way. I got ready to rap him on the chin with the heavy bronze dagger hilt. But we didn’t have to go that far: looking over me at the girl he forgot his intentions of forcing me out of his path, and his hands went loose on my shoulders. I leaned on the hand that I had on his chest, moving him back until he was against the wall; and then stepped away from him, a little to one side, so I could see both him and her facing each other from opposite walls.

“Be still till we see what’s happened,” I told him, and turned to the girl, pointing the dagger at her. “What’s happened?”

She was calm again.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/112</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813287</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133294</id>
      <parentid>15040042</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:34:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133294</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1596" sha1="kc0z0l3au6t1lh1pu0ouenvvb179pu4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|100|||{{asc|Something Black|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;“Come,” she said. “I'll show you. Don’t let Eric come, please.”

“He won’t bother you,” I promised.

She nodded at that, gravely, and led us back down the corridor, around the corner, and up to a small iron door that stood ajar. She went through first. I followed her. Collinson was at my heels. Fresh air hit us when we went through the door. I look up and saw dim stars in a dark sky. I looked down again. In the light that came through the open door behind us I saw that we were walking on a floor of white marble, or pentagonal tiles that imitated white marble. The place was dark except for the light from behind us. I took my flashlight out.

Walking unhurriedly on bare feet that must have found the tiled floor chilly, she led us straight to a square grayish shape that loomed up ahead. When she halted close to it and said, “There,” I clicked on my light.

The light glittered and glistened on a wide altar of brilliant white, crystal, and silver.

On the lowest of the three altar steps Doctor Riese lay dead on his back.

His face was composed, as if he were sleeping. His arms were straight down at his sides. His clothes were not rumpled, though his coat and vest were unbuttoned. His shirt was all blood. There were four holes in his shirt-front, all alike, all the size and shape that the weapon the girl had given me would have made. No blood was coming from his wounds now, but when I put a hand on his forehead I found it not quite cold. There was blood on the altar steps, and on the floor below,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/113</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813302</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133332</id>
      <parentid>15040103</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:37:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */  missing “</comment>
      <origin>15133332</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1590" sha1="tu5yqyahstzw09pe6zdktctpc4rqvsu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|101|||{{asc|DEAD FLOWERS|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;where his noseglasses, unbroken, on the end of their black ribbon, lay.

I straightened up and swung the beam of my light into the girl’s face. She blinked and squinted, but her face showed nothing except that physical discomfort.

“You killed him?” I asked.

Young Collinson came out of his trance to bawl: “No.” 

“Shut up,” I told him, stepping closer to the girl, so he couldn’t wedge himself between us. “Did you?” I asked her again.

“Are you surprised?” she inquired quietly. “You were there when my step-mother told of the cursed Dain blood in me, and of what it had done and would do to me and those who touched me. Is this,” she asked, pointing at the dead man, “anything you should not have expected?” 

“Don’t be silly,” I said while I tried to figure out her calmness. I had seen her coked to the ears before, but this wasn’t that. I didn’t know what this was. “Why did you kill him?”

Collinson grabbed my arm and yanked me around to face him. He was all on fire.

“We can’t stand here talking,” he cried. “We've got to get her out of here, away from this. We’ve got to hide the body, or put it some place where they'll think somebody else did it. You know how those things are done. I'll take her home. You fix it.”

“Yeah?” I asked. “What’ll I do? Frame it on one of the Filipino boys, so they’ll hang him instead of her?”

“Yes, that’s it. You know how to——”

“Like hell that’s it,” I said. “You’ve got nice ideas.”
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/114</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813312</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133355</id>
      <parentid>15040139</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:43:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133355</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1532" sha1="11sjbfi58c3j1x6oo0ywpke5idox6cu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|102|||{{asc|Something Black|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;His face got redder. He stammered: “I didn’t——didn’t mean so they'll hang anybody, really. I wouldn’t want you to do that. But couldn’t it be fixed for him to get away? I——I’d make it worth his while. He could——”

“Turn it off,” I growled. “You’re wasting our time.”

“But you’ve got to,” he insisted. “You came here to see that nothing happened to Gabrielle and you’ve got to go through with it.”

“Yeah? You’re a smart boy.”

“I know it’s a lot to ask, but I’ll pay——”

“Stop it.” I took my arm out of his hands and turned to the girl again, asking: “Who else was here when it happened?”

“No one.”

I played my light around, on the corpse and altar, all over the floor, on the walls, and saw nothing I hadn’t seen before. The walls were white, smooth, and unbroken except for the door we had come through and another, exactly like it, on the other side. These four straight whitewashed walls, undecorated, rose six stories to the sky.

I put the dagger beside Riese’s body, snapped off the light, and told Collinson: “We'll take Miss Leggett up to her room.”

“For God’s sake let’s get her out of here—out of this house—now, while there’s time!”

I said she’d look swell running through the streets barefooted and with nothing on but a bloodstained nightie.

I turned on the light again when I heard him making noises. He was jerking his arms out of his overcoat. He&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/115</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813321</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133397</id>
      <parentid>15040166</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:45:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133397</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1621" sha1="ofjqx2rftgcgo8yw4a2ibh1il021c7n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|103|||{{asc|DEAD FLOWERS|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;said: “I’ve got the car at the corner, and I can carry her to it,” and started towards her with the coat held out.

She ran around to the other side of me, moaning: “Oh, don’t let him touch me.”

I put out an arm to stop him. It wasn't strong enough. The girl got behind me. Collinson pursued her and she came around in front. I felt like the center of a merry-go-round, and didn’t like the feel of it. When Collinson came in front of me, I drove my shoulder into his side, sending him staggering over against the side of the altar. Following him, I planted myself in front of the big sap and blew off steam: “Stop it. If you want to play with us you’ve got to stop cutting up, and do what you’re told, and let her alone. Yes or no?”

He straightened his legs under him and began: “But, man, you can’t——”

“Let her alone,” I said. “Let me alone. The next break you make I’m going to sock your jaw with the flat of a gun. If you want it now, say so. Will you behave?”

He muttered: “All right.”

I turned around to see the girl, a gray shadow, running towards the open door, her bare feet making little noise on the tiles. My shoes made an ungodly racket as I went after her. Just inside the door I caught her with an arm around her waist. The next moment my arm was jerked away, and I was flung aside, smacking into the wall, slipping down on one knee. Collinson, looking eight feet tall in the darkness, stood close to me, storming down at me, but all I could pick out of his many words was a “damn you.”
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/116</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813323</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133406</id>
      <parentid>15040176</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:49:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133406</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1715" sha1="q205qdl5oijcauqdb5xmkbpvc1f99zb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|104|||{{asc|Dead Flowers|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I was in a swell mood when I got up from my knee. Playing nurse-maid to a crazy girl wasn’t enough: I had to be chucked around by her boy friend. I put all the hypocrisy I had into my voice when I said casually, “You oughtn’t to do that,” to him and went over to where the girl was standing by the door.

“We'll go up to your room now,” I told her.

“Not Eric,” she protested.

“He won’t bother you,” I promised again, hoping there’d be more truth to it this time. “Go ahead.”

She hesitated, then went through the doorway. Collinson, looking partly sheepish, partly savage, and altogether discontented, followed me through. I closed the door, asking the girl if she had the key. “No,” she said, as if she hadn’t known there was a key.

We rode up in the elevator, the girl keeping me always between her and her fiancé, if that’s what he still was. He stared fixedly at nothing. I studied her face, still trying to dope her out, to decide whether she had been shocked back into sanity or farther away from it. Looking at her, the first guess seemed likely, but I had a hunch it wasn’t. We saw nobody between the altar and her room. I switched on her lights and we went in. I closed the door and put my back against it. Collinson put his overcoat and hat on a chair and stood beside them, folding his arms, looking at Gabrielle. She sat on the edge of the bed and looked at my feet.

“Tell us the whole thing, quick,” I commanded.

She looked up at my face and said: “I should like to go to sleep now.”

That settled the question of her sanity, so far as I was concerned: she hadn’t any. But now I had another&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/117</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813325</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133416</id>
      <parentid>15040194</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:53:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133416</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1658" sha1="fryoyqql69oj6u6hcw6kagf2x7j3q22" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|105|||{{asc|DEAD FLOWERS|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;thing to worry me. This room was not exactly as it had been before. Something had been changed in it since I had been there not many minutes ago. I shut my eyes, trying to shake up my memory for a picture of it then; I opened my eyes, looking at it now.

“Can’t I?” she asked.

I let her question wait while I put my gaze around the room, checking it up item by item, as well as I could. The only change I could put my finger on was Collinson’s coat and hat on the chair. There was no mystery to their presence; and the chair, I decided, was what had bothered me. It still did. I went to it and picked up his coat. There was nothing under it. That’s what was wrong: a green dressing-gown, or something of the sort, had been there before, and was not there now. I didn’t see it elsewhere in the room, and didn’t have enough confidence in its being there to search for it. The green mules were under the bed.

I said to the girl:

“Not now. Go in the bathroom and wash the blood off, and then get dressed. Take your clothes in there with you. When you’re dressed, give your nightgown to Collinson.” I turned to him. “Put it in your pocket and keep it there. Don’t go out of the room until I come back, and don’t let anybody in. I won’t be gone long. Got a gun?”

“No,” he said, “but I——”

The girl got up from the bed, came over to stand close in front of me, and interrupted him.

“You can’t leave me here with him,” she said earnestly. “I won’t have it. Isn’t it enough that I’ve killed one man tonight? Don’t make me kill another.” She was&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/118</title>
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        <username>Beardo</username>
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      <text bytes="1629" sha1="ookyxrm1e401ba195uecev4ckvqr1l3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|106|||{{asc|Something Black|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;earnest, but not excited, speaking as if her words were quite reasonable.

“I've got to go out for a while,” I said. “And you can’t stay alone. Do what I tell you.”

“Do you know what you’re doing?” she asked in a thin, tired voice. “You can’t know, or you wouldn’t do it.” Her back was to Collinson. She lifted her face so that I saw rather than heard the nearly soundless words her lips formed: “Not Eric. Let him go.”

She had me woozy: a little more of it and I would have been ready for the cell next to hers: I was actually tempted to let her have her way. I jerked a thumb at the bathroom and said: “You can stay in there till I come back, if you want, but he'll have to stay here.”

She nodded hopelessly and went into the dressing-alcove. When she crossed from there to the bathroom, carrying clothes in her arms, a tear was shiny beneath each eye.

I gave my gun to Collinson. The hand in which he took it was tight and shaky. He was making a lot of noise with his breath. I said: “Now don’t be a sap. Give me some help instead of trouble for once. Nobody in or out: if you have to shoot, shoot.”

He tried to say something, couldn’t, grabbed my nearest hand, and did his best to disable it. I took it away from him and went down to the scene of Doctor Riese’s murder. I had some difficulty in getting there. The iron door through which we had passed a few minutes ago was now locked. The lock seemed simple enough. I went at it with the fancy attachments on my pocket-knife, and presently had the door open.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/119</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4813327</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133420</id>
      <parentid>15040217</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:57:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
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      <text bytes="337" sha1="0dyfs56t608hgyu2no7vwckhbvvc36t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Beardo&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|||{{asc|DEAD FLOWERS|}}|{{asc|The Dain Curse}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I didn’t find the green gown inside. I didn’t find Riese’s body on the altar steps. It was nowhere in sight. The dagger was gone. Every trace of blood, except where the pool on the white floor had left a faintly yellow stain, was gone. Somebody had been tidying up.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4816305</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132638</id>
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        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>remove work category</comment>
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      <text bytes="674" sha1="2nwa9l82rabb50w8g46rwhd22zmq36q" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos
 | author     = Therkel Mathiassen
 | translator = William Ernest Calvert | translator-display = W. E. Calvert
 | year       = 1928
 | categories = 
 | notes      = Volume 6, number 1 of ''[[Report of the Fifth Thule Expedition, 1921–24]]''
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu&quot; include=12 /&gt;
{{padded page break}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu&quot; include=256 /&gt;
{{auxiliary Table of Contents|
* [[/Bibliography|Bibliography]]
}}
{{padded page break}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu&quot; from=257 to=260 /&gt;

{{PD-US|pubyear=1928}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Toad of Toad Hall (1929).pdf/116</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
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        <username>Chrisguise</username>
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      <text bytes="766" sha1="qh4av8zq27nlnjriefsd9qps0f6kxdx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{larger|''Scene 2''}}

{{larger|THE DUNGEON}}}}


{{block left|{{sc|Scene.}} ''A Dungeon. On a heap of straw in the corner'' {{asc|TOAD}} ''sleeps uneasily. The door is unlocked and'' {{asc|PHOEBE}}'', the gaoler's daughter, comes in with breakfast on a tray.'' {{asc|TOAD}} ''sits up and takes the straw from his hair.''|2em}}


{{em|2}}{{asc|PHOEBE}}&lt;br&gt;Good morning, Toad.


{{em|2}}{{asc|TOAD}} (''gloomily'')&lt;br&gt;Good morning, woman.


{{em|2}}{{asc|PHOEBE}}&lt;br&gt;Slept well?


{{em|2}}{{asc|TOAD}}&lt;br&gt;Slept well? How could I sleep well, immured in a dark and noisome dungeon like this?


{{em|2}}{{asc|PHOEBE}}&lt;br&gt;Well, some do. See, I've brought your breakfast.


{{em|2}}{{asc|TOAD}}&lt;br&gt;Then you will oblige me by taking it away again.
{{dhr}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|''104''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Toad of Toad Hall (1929).pdf/125</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4817241</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132009</id>
      <parentid>15068135</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:40:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
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      <minor />
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      <text bytes="932" sha1="d0iwyt9q0blgt1dz4z3vf3i4zcr53fn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''ACT III · Scene II''|''113''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{em|2}}{{asc|AUNT}}&lt;br&gt;I have.


{{em|2}}{{asc|TOAD}}&lt;br&gt;Oh! Well?


{{em|2}}{{asc|AUNT}}&lt;br&gt;Here you are. (''She hands over her bundle: cotton print gown, apron, shawl and rusty black bonnet.'')


{{em|2}}{{asc|TOAD}} (''seizing the bundle'')&lt;br&gt;My dear lady, I am eternally your debtor. Should you ever find yourself in the neighborhood of Toad Hall, a visit, whether professional or social— (''He holds up the dress.'') Er, how do I {{...}}


{{em|2}}{{asc|PHOEBE}} (''much amused'')&lt;br&gt;I'll help you.


{{em|2}}{{asc|AUNT}}&lt;br&gt;You told him the condition?


{{em|2}}{{asc|TOAD}}&lt;br&gt;Condition?


{{em|2}}{{asc|PHOEBE}}&lt;br&gt;My aunt thinks she ought to be gagged and bound, so as to look as if she had been overcome. You'd like it, too. You wanted to leave the prison in style.


{{em|2}}{{asc|TOAD}} (''beamingly'')&lt;br&gt;An excellent idea. So much more in keeping with my char­acter.
{{dhr}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Toad of Toad Hall (1929).pdf/127</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4817245</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132022</id>
      <parentid>15068137</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:43:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
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      <text bytes="902" sha1="fghw4liiyxjrnv3jm08bwghrh6t1q9i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''ACT III · Scene II''|''115''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{em|2}}{{asc|PHOEBE}}&lt;br&gt;How brave you are! (''She lends a hand.'')


{{em|2}}{{asc|TOAD}} (''regarding the'' {{asc|AUNT}} ''with pride'')&lt;br&gt;A neat bit of work that. Now then, how do I get into this? (''He holds up the dress.'')


{{em|2}}{{asc|PHOEBE}}&lt;br&gt;Silly, not like that. Here, give it to me{{...|4}} Now then. (''She helps'' {{asc|TOAD}} ''in, and does him up.'') Apron{{...|4}} Shawl{{...|4}} Now the bonnet. There! Well, upon my word, you're the very living image of her!


{{left margin|2em|(''The'' {{asc|AUNT}} ''makes frantic indications of a desire to speak.'')}}


{{em|2}}{{asc|TOAD}}&lt;br&gt;What's the matter with her?


{{em|2}}{{asc|PHOEBE}}&lt;br&gt;She wants to say something, I think. (''She takes off the gag.'')


{{em|2}}{{asc|AUNT}} (''with conviction'')&lt;br&gt;Too ugly.


{{em|2}}{{asc|PHOEBE}}&lt;br&gt;Who is?


{{em|2}}{{asc|AUNT}}&lt;br&gt;He is.
{{dhr}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Caribou Eskimos.djvu/498</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4822215</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132385</id>
      <parentid>15063489</parentid>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Persimmon and Hazelnut</username>
        <id>3013843</id>
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      <comment>Correcting a link</comment>
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      <text bytes="2863" sha1="4dxcu23bxsm9pvtdqan4il7awk91osa" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rh||173}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;when they were on the Barren Grounds in summer and lacked birch bark, they covered their canoes with caribou skin. Skin canoes are also known from the Beothuk, Micmac, and Wabanaki and among them are obviously extremely old; Lescarbot's rather vague reference to &quot;willow canoes&quot; among the Micmac possibly means these skin boats. From the boundary between the sub-arctic region and the plains there are reports of skin boats among the Cree, and there most decidedly there is no question of bull-boats. The genuine bull-boat belongs to the northern plains by the Missouri, but is also known from the Flathead and Cheroki. In South America a sort of primitive skin boat, the ''pelota'', is known from the Llanos, Matto Grosso, Pampas, and Patagonia, etc;&lt;ref&gt;Friederici 1909; 28; Cooper 1925; 408.&lt;/ref&gt; probably it is post-Columbian, however.

From northern Asia there is only one report of skin boats which seems to be reliable, a Chinese source, ''Pei-shi'', from the seventh century A. D., mentioning them from a tribe, presumably Tungus, which lived above the outlet of the Sungari in the Amur. On the other hand La Martinière's report of skin boats among the Samoyed — like much else in the work of this writer — is pure invention on the basis of a description of a Greenland kayak.&lt;ref&gt;de La Martinière 1671; 152 seq.&lt;/ref&gt; Among the Västerbotten Lapps there is a tradition of skin boats.&lt;ref&gt;Drake 1918; 75. I have previously (1924; 266) drawn attention to the fact that the kayaks which MacRitchie (1911 a; pl. 54. 1911 b; pl. 41) considers to be Lapp are in reality quite ordinary Eskimo kayaks.&lt;/ref&gt; Turning to Central Asia, we find, in Mathæus Parisiensis, who lived in the middle of the thirteenth century, the valuable information that the Mongols had &quot;boats made of oxhides, which ten or twelve of them own in common&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;Rubruck 1900; xv.&lt;/ref&gt; To this day the Tibetans on the upper Yang-tze-kiang use a kind of big bull-boat of yak hide, whilst skin boats of oblong shape, rather narrower forward than aft, are used by their kinsmen on the Tsangpo.&lt;ref&gt;Rockhill 1891: 200. Ejusdem 1895; 718. Hedin 1909–12; 1 398 seq. Tafel 1914; II 194.&lt;/ref&gt; The skin boats in Mesopotamia, which already attracted the attention of Herodotus (I ch. 194), are generally known.

Finally, it cannot be overlooked that skin boats, some round similar to real bull-boats, are still used in Ireland and Wales.&lt;ref&gt;Trebitsch 1912; 165. 12. 39: 22 and 289, HMV.&lt;/ref&gt; The Britannic skin boat, known from Cæsar, Pliny, etc. is according to Trebitsch mentioned for the first time by the Greek historian Timaios (3rd Cent. B. C.); but evidence which perhaps has its root in still earlier tradition is to be found in Avienus' poem ''[[:la:Ora maritima|Ora maritima]]''. In this, in connection with the Carthagenian Himilco's cruise about 500&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Blackwood's Magazine volume 002.djvu/647</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4822326</id>
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      <id>15132225</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
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      <text bytes="4701" sha1="9rasexbc0trfuh00u4zt3j55f7e15sm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;{{rh|1818.]|''Anecdotes of the Shepherd's Dog.''|623}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Further Anecdotes of the Shepherd's Dog&quot; /&gt;John, with a voice of exultation, as the dog broke to the hill; and as all these good dogs perform their work in perfect silence, we neither saw nor heard any more for a long time. I think, if I remember right, we waited there about half an hour; during which time, all the conversation was about the small chance that the dog had to find the ewe; for it was agreed on all hands, that she must long ago have mixed with the rest of the sheep on the farm. How that was, no man will ever be able to decide. John, however, still persisted in waiting until his dog came back, either with the ewe or without her; and at last the trusty animal brought the individual lost sheep to our very feet, which the man took on his back, and went on his way rejoicing. I remember the dog was very warm, and hanging out his tongue—John called him all the ill names he could invent, which the other seemed to take in very good part. Such language seemed to be John's flattery to his dog. For my part, I went home fancying I had seen a miracle, little weeting that it was nothing to what I myself was to experience in the course of my pastoral life, from the sagacity of that faithful animal the shepherd's dog. 

My dog was always my companion. I conversed with him the whole day—I shared every meal with him, and my plaid in the time of a shower; the consequence was, that I generally had the best dogs in all the country. The first remarkable one that I had was named Sirrah, he was beyond all comparison the best dog I ever saw. He was of a surly unsocial temper—disdained all flattery, and refused to be caressed; but his attention to his master's commands and interests never will again be equalled by any of the canine race. The first time that I saw him a drover was leading him in a rope; he was hungry, and lean, and far from being a beautiful cur, for he was all over black, and had a grim face striped with dark brown. The man had bought him of a boy for three shillings, somewhere on the Border, and doubt less had used him very ill on his journey. I thought I discovered a sort of sullen intelligence in his face, notwithstanding his dejected and forlorn situation, so I gave the drover a guinea for him, and appropriated the captive to myself. I believe there never was a guinea so well laid out; at least, I am satisfied that I never laid out one to so good purpose. He was scarcely then a year old, and knew so little of herding, that he had never turned sheep in his life; but as soon as he discovered that it was his duty to do so, and that it obliged me, I can never forget with what anxiety and eagerness he learned his different evolutions. He would try every way deliberately, till he found out what I wanted him to do; and when once I made him to understand a direction, he never forgot or mistook it again. Well as I knew him, he very often astonished me; for, when hard pressed in accomplishing the task that he was put to, he had expedients of the moment that bespoke a great share of the reasoning faculty. Were I to relate all his exploits, it would require a volume; I shall only mention one or two, to prove to you what kind of an animal he was. 

I was a shepherd for ten years on the same farm, where I had always about 700 lambs put under my charge every year at weaning-time. As they were of the ''short'', or ''black-faced'' breed, the breaking of them was a very ticklish and difficult task. I was obliged to watch them night and day for the first four days, during which time I had always a person to assist me. It happened one year, that just about midnight the lambs broke and came up the moor upon us, making a noise with their running louder than thunder. We got up, and waved our plaids, and shouted, in hopes to turn them, but we only made matters worse, for in a moment they were all round us, and by our exertions we cut them into three divisions; one of which ran north, another south, and those that came up between us straight up the moor to the westward. I called out, &quot;Sirrah, my man, they're a' away;&quot; the word, of all others, that set him most upon the alert; but owing to the darkness of the night, and blackness of the moor, I never saw him at all. As the division of the lambs that ran southward were going straight towards the fold, where they had been that day taken from their dams, I was afraid they would go there, and again mix with them; so I threw off part of my clothes, and pursued them, and by great personal exertion, and the help of another old dog that I had beside Sirrah, I&lt;section end=&quot;Further Anecdotes of the Shepherd's Dog&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Blackwood's Magazine volume 001.djvu/447</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4822348</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132217</id>
      <parentid>15063371</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:59:10Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="5137" sha1="q1danvozvr7fzlvxzcteq5v1pfwupkp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Hilohello&quot; /&gt;{{rh|1817.]|''Register.—Meteorological Report.''|449}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the greatest daily heat is only half a degree more; and that the actual temperature at 10 a. m. is even lower this year than last. The thermometer last year stood once at 73, and once at 72, during the month of June; this year it stood once at 76, once at 73, once at 72, once at 71, and once at 70½°. During June 1817, the temperature rose 18 times to 60 and upwards; but during the same month 1816, it rose in the same way 22 tunes. From various other circumstances that might be stated, we suspect that the present year has appeared warmer, only because there has been more sunshine, which has of course produced an astonishing difference in the appearance of the crops. The moist state of the atmosphere, too, might perhaps prevent evaporation at night, to the same extent as prevailed last year, which would of course prevent also the same depression of temperature. This conjecture is confirmed by two facts. In the first place, the average height of the hygrometer, at 10 p. m. for June last year, was 14¼—this year it is only 10½; and in the second place, the difference between the mean temperatures of the two years is almost wholly owing to the difference between the temperatures of the nights. 

{{rule|3em}}

{{c|{{sc|Meteorological Table}}, ''extracted from the Register kept on the Banks of the Tay, four miles east from Perth, Latitude'' 56° 25′, ''Elevation'' 185 ''feet.''}}

{{c|{{sc|June}} 1817.}}

{{table missing}}

''Means.''

THERMOMETER. Degrees. 

Mean of greatest daily heat, 62.983 

cold, 48.366 

temperature, 10 A. M. 57.233

10 P. M. 51.585 

of daily extremes, 55.675 

10 A.M. and 10 P. M. 54.408 


BAROMETER. Inches. 

Mean of 10 A. M. (temp. of mer. 59°) 29.643 

10 P. M. (temp, of mer. 59) 29.662 

both, (temp, of mer. 59) 29.652 


HYGROMETER (LESLIE'S.) Degrees. 

Mean dryness, 10 A. M. 24.255 

10 P. M. 10.500 

of both, 17.366 

Rain in inches and decimals, 4.345 

Evaporation in ditto, 2.050 


''Extremes.''

THERMOMETER. Degrees. 


Greatest heat, 25th day, 76.000

Greatest cold, 14th, 41.000 

Highest, 10 A. M. 25th, 70.500 

Lowest ditto, 14th, 49.500 

Highest, 10 P. M. 24th, 62.000

Lowest ditto  14th, 46.000 


BAROMETER. Inches. 

Highest, 10 A. M. . 16th, 30.070 

Lowest ditto, 14th, 29.110 

Highest, 10 P.M. 15th, 30.160

Lowest ditto, 13th, 29.200 


HYGROMETER. Degrees. 

Highest, 10 A. M. 5th, 45.000 

Lowest ditto, 28th, 5.000 

Highest, 10 P. M. 7th, 22.000 

Lowest ditto, 19th, 2.000 


{{c|Fair days 12; rainy days 18. Wind west of meridian, including North, 14; East of meridian, including South, 16.}}


{{rule|3em}}

{{c|{{sc|Meteoroligical Table}}, ''extracted from the Register kept at Edinburgh, in the Observatory, Calton-hill.''

{{sm|N. B.—The Observations are made twice every day, at eight o'clock in the morning, and eight o'clock in the evening.}}}}

{{table missing}}
Ther. 

Barom. 

Attach. 
Ther. 

Wind. 

Ther. 

Barom. 

A ttach 
Ther. 

Wind. 

June 1 ! 

M.49 
E. 49 

29.551 
.389 

M.54 
E. 55 / 

,, ... [Fair, and 
N ' w - mild. 

June 16 1 

M.51 
E. 54 

29.982 
.811 

M.55) 

E.56/ 

W. 

Cloudy, with 
showers. 

2 { 

M.51 

E. 48 

.3511 M.55) 
.244;E. .55 / 

Cble. 

Cloudy. 

&quot; 

M.59 
E. 57 

.762 
.698 

M.621 
E.62/ 

Cble. Fair. 

'{ 

M.50 
E. 51 

.160JM.541 

.175E.55/ 

S.W. 

Showers. 

18{ 

M.49 

E. 19 

.614 
.534 

M.58 
E.57f 

E. ' Fair. 

*{ 

M.55 
E. 4!) 

J8.70-1 M.55 
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Hain .294 inches.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Blackwood's Magazine volume 002.djvu/652</title>
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      <text bytes="4536" sha1="8jimi4azmdqhzqdx3v3mxc5yyya6tkp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;{{rh|628|''Letter of James VI.-The Dampers.''|[March.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Letter of James VI.&quot; /&gt;{{c|{{asc|Letter of James VI.}}}}

{{asc|MR EDITOR,}}

{{sc|The}} original of the subjoined is among the papers of an old and loyal family in Ayrshire, whom I prevailed on to permit this communication. The letter seems an admirable companion to those Royal Epistles with which you have already favoured the public;&lt;ref&gt;See [[Blackwood's Magazine/Volume 2/Issue 9|No IX.]]&lt;/ref&gt; but the comments that might be made on it are chiefly anticipated in your former Number. 
{{float right|L. H.}}
''Glasgow, 2d March.''

{{c|''To our richt traist freind the Laird of Caldwell.''}}

{{asc|RICHT TRAIST FREIND,}}

{{sc|We}} greit you herthe weill Having directit our other lres unto zou of befoir desyring zou according to the custome observit of auld be our maist nobill progenitours in sic caises to haif directit hither to the Queine our Bedfallow ane haiknay for transporting of the Ladies accompanying her Quhareupoun we vpoun zour stay haif tane occasioun to mervell Zit thinking to try forder the conceipt quhilk we hailf of zour affectioun in furtherance of honorabill adois as ony wayis concerne ws We ar movit as of befoir to visie zou be thir prētis Requeisting zou maist effectuuslie to deliver and direct hither with this berair ane haiknay to quhom we haif gevin our comission for the samyn effect In doing quhareof ze will do ws richt acceptabill pleasour to be rememberit in ony zour adois quhare we may gif zou pruif of our rememberance of zour guid weill accordinglie ''Othervise'' vpon the informatioune we haif resaivit of sic as ze haif we will caus the reddiest ze haif be taine be our auctority and brocht in till ws Hoping rather ze will do zour dewtie benevolenthe Thus luikeing that our desire tending to the custome observit of auld in sic caises sall be satisfeit and the berair not return empty We comit zou to the protection of God From Halirudhous the fyrst day of October 1590. 

(Signed) 
{{float right|{{sc|James R.}}}}

&lt;section end=&quot;Letter of James VI.&quot; /&gt;
{{blackwoods flared rule}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;The Dampers&quot; /&gt;{{c|{{asc|THE DAMPERS.}}}}

{{asc|MR EDITOR,}}

{{sc|I observed,}} in the last Number of your Magazine, an article on the subject of Damping, signed &quot;An Old Fellow,&quot; and being perhaps the most veteran Damper in Edinburgh, having belonged to the society upwards of sixty years, I presume, in name of all the Dampers in and about town, no despicable array, to thank your correspondent for the very handsome manner in which he has been pleased to notice a fraternity, of which your readers will probably think I have not been an unworthy member, after they shall have perused the following narrative. 

The first time I had the pleasure of plying as a Damper, was soon after the appearance of the tragedy of Douglas. The nation, I mean the Scottish nation, felt proud of the success of their ''first'', may I call it their ''first?'' legitimate drama; and Mr Home's vanity as an author was not inconsiderable. By dividing the merits, it was evident that it would be decreased in a much greater ratio than a half, so I whispered that the real author, ''mirabile dictu'', was no less a personage than John, Earl of Bute. The inuendo was eagerly listened to; and poor Home, shorn of his tragic beams, was doomed to suffer all the rage of presbyterian persecution, while the unconscious peer was clothed in his literary splendour. ''Time'', however, a gentleman who has always been a bitter enemy to the results of Damping, has officiously interposed, and rendered my whispers inaudible to posterity. 

My next appearance was some time after the appearance of Ossian's Poems. The people were still more proud of their ancient than they had been of their modern bard; and I exerted my energies in moderating their transport, until I was actually called the modern Zoilus. Recourse was again had to my former expedient of dividing the merits, and I most boldly contended, that many of the best poems were written by the editor, though I knew that he could as well have written the Iliad. By this proceeding, I took a great deal of merit from our Gaelic Homer, and conferred very little on M'Pherson; thereby keeping the vanity of the nation rather ''under par'', if I may use a mercantile expression in a literary concern. On a later day I furnished a brother Damper with some of his most plausible objections to the authenticity of Ossian's Poems, inspiring him with a style at
&lt;section end=&quot;The Dampers&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Blackwood's Magazine volume 002.djvu/686</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4822901</id>
    <revision>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4848" sha1="ggbqo4r3bfh8qrgjtq516f0dhv9p1nm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;{{rh|662|''Letter to the Author of Rob Roy.''|[March}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Analytical Essays on the Early English Dramatists&quot; /&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|
And heaven in it seems to ope, that late was shut, 
To take me up to mercy. 
:''Duch.'' Antonio! 
:''Bos.'' Yes, madam, he is living! &amp;c. 
:''Duch.'' Mercy! [''Dies.'' 
:''Bos.'' Oh! she's gone again! there life's cord broke! 
O sacred Innocence! that sweetly sleeps 
On turtle's feather, while a guilty conscience 
Is a black register, wherein is writ 
All our good deeds and bad, a perspective 
That shows us hell,&quot; &amp;c.
}}

The interest of the drama thus expires with the fourth act. In the fifth, there is some powerful painting of the distraction of Ferdinand, whom remorse has driven into madness, and a murderous confusion of death among the guilty actors; but the extracts already given are sufficient to enable our readers to estimate the general character of the tragedy, and our limits prevent us from offering any farther criticism.&lt;ref&gt;Mr Lamb observes of the tragedy, &quot;all the several parts of the dreadful apparatus, with which the Duchess's death is ushered in, are not more remote from the conceptions of ordinary vengeance, than the strange character of suffering which they seem to to bring upon their victim is beyond the imagination of ordinary poets. As they are not like inflictions of ''this life'', so her language seems ''not of this world''. She has lived among horrors till she is become 'native and endowed into that element.' She speaks the dialect of despair—her tongue has a smatch of Tartarus and the souls in bale! What are Luke's iron crown, the brazen bull of Phalaris, Procrustes' bed, to the waxen images which counterfeit death, the wild masque of madmen, the tomb-maker, the bell-man, the living person's dirge, the mortification by degrees!&quot; ''Specimen of English Dramatic Poets, &amp;c.''&lt;/ref&gt;

{{float right|H. M.}}

{{blackwoods flared rule}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Analytical Essays on the Early English Dramatists&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Letter to the Author of Rob Roy&quot; /&gt;{{c|{{asc|LETTER TO THE AUTHOR OF ROB ROY.}}}}

{{right|''Salt Market, Feb.'' 20.}}

{{asc|DEAR SIR,}}

{{sc|Mr Blackwood}} informs me that he has been severely taken in hand for the publication of a letter of mine, concerning the management of the college library in this city; it is therefore doubtful whether he will print this; but as he is publisher of your best work, the &quot;Tales of my Landlord,&quot; I dare say he must have some suspicion who you are, and will take care to transmit the MS. (if MS. it must remain) to your honoured hands. You have no idea what a splutter your amusing, but rather hasty novel, has created among the good people in this town. You know we have long been fond of literature—how could we be otherwise, with such a college in the midst of us?—but I lament to say our own attempts have our been in the main far from successful. We have tried some scores of &quot;periodical publications,&quot; after the form of the Spectator, none of which have ever been spectators of a second year. We have also, now and then, made an effort to keep up a lively newspaper among us, but, somehow or other, the moment the paper begins to be taken in, the editor begins to be taken out, and as he himself fares better, the poor readers are obliged to fare worse. In short, the peculiar local jokes of our city have never been able to procure for themselves any indigenous publication, capable of giving them the smallest chance of immortality, but have been preserved, like the wisdom of the ancient Druids, by oral communication,—that is, have been handed down from one generation of bon vivants to another, the chief repositories of the present day being John Douglas, Dr Scott (he who has so often been in the mouths of the public), Veracity Cochrane the jeweller, Urquhart the barber, and your humble servant. 

The appearance of your book was expected by us, like all the rest of the &quot;reading public,&quot; with great anxiety; but little did we know how much more reason we had to gape for it, than any of the other inhabitants of the island. Little did we think that we ourselves were to be immortalized in Rob Roy! little did we guess that just at the time when &quot;The Attic Stories&quot; were expiring, (they can scarcely be said ever to have been alive), just at the time when the Chronicle was beginning to lose all its point (for Duncan Whip appears to be quite defunct), we should be taken in hand by a writer of so much importance as the author of &quot;Waverly&quot; and &quot;Old Mortality.&quot; Dear sir, I wish you had come out and a visit the week your paid me book came out. The whole town was in a tumult. You could not walk along the Trongate without jostling your way through hosts of roaring citizens, all alike transported into&lt;section end=&quot;Letter to the Author of Rob Roy&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Blackwood's Magazine volume 001.djvu/282</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4823790</id>
    <revision>
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      <text bytes="4216" sha1="0g1wmw8qi2npuivomzvbz9tt7w0webe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Hilohello&quot; /&gt;{{rh|282|''Review.—Lalla Rookh.''|[June}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;poem&gt;The neigh of cavalry;—the tinkling throngs 
Of laden camels, and their driver's songs;—
Ringing of arms, and flapping in the breeze 
Of streamers from ten thousand canopies:—
War-music, bursting out from time to time, 
With gong and tymbolon's tremendous chime;—
Or, in the pause, when harsher sounds are mute, 
The mellow breathings of some horn or flute, 
That, far off, broken by the eagle note 
Of the Abyssinian trumpet,&lt;ref&gt;&quot;This trumpet is often called in Abyssinia, ''nesser cuno'', which signifies the note of the eagle.&quot;—''Note of Bruce's Editor.''&lt;/ref&gt; swell and float!&quot;&lt;/poem&gt;

If this be splendid and magnificent, the following is no less wild and terrible. 

{{block center/s}}
&lt;poem&gt;:{{&quot; '}}Twas more than midnight now,—a fearful pause 
Had followed the long shouts, the wild applause, 
That lately from those Royal Gardens burst, 
Where the Veiled Demon held his feast accurst, 
When Zelica—alas, poor ruin'd heart, 
In every horror doom'd to bear its part!—
Was bidden to the banquet by a slave, 
Who, while his quivering lip the summons gave, 
Grew black, as though the shadows of the grave 
Compassed him round, and, ere he could repeat 
His message through, fell lifeless at her feet! 
Shuddering she went—a soul-felt pang of fear, 
A presage that her own dark doom was near, 
Roused every feeling, and brought Reason back 
Once more, to writhe her last upon the rack. 
All round seemed tranquil; even the foe had ceased, 
As if aware of that demoniac feast, 
His fiery bolts; and though the heavens looked red, 
'Twas but some distant conflagration's spread. 
But, hark!—she stops—she listens—dreadful tone! 
'Tis her Tormentor's laugh—and now a groan, 
A long death-groan, comes with it—can this be 
The place of mirth, the bower of revelry? 
She enters—Holy Alla! what a sight
Was there before her! By the glimmering light 
Of the pale dawn, mixed with the flame of brands 
That round lay burning, dropped from lifeless hands, 
She saw the board in splendid mockery spread, 
Rich censers breathing,—garlands over head,—
The urns, the cups, from which they late had quaffed, 
All gold and gems, but—what had been the draught?
Oh! who need ask, that saw those livid guests, 
With their swollen heads sunk blackening on their breasts,
Or looking pale to Heaven with glassy glare, 
As if they sought, but saw no mercy there; 
As if they felt, though poison racked them through, 
Remorse the deadlier torment of the two!
While some, the bravest, hardiest in the train 
Of their false Chief, who on the battle-plain 
Would have met death with transport by his side, 
Here mute and helpless gasped;—but as they died, 
Looked horrible vengeance with their eyes' last strain, 
And clenched the slackening hand at him in vain. 
Dreadful it was to see the ghastly stare, 
The stony look of horror and despair, 
Which some of these expiring victims cast 
Upon their souls' tormentor to the last;—
Upon that mocking Fiend, whose Veil now raised, 
Show'd them, as in death's agony they gazed, 
Not the long promised light, the brow, whose beaming 
Was to come forth, all conquering, all redeeming, 
But features horribler than Hell e'er traced 
On its own brood—no Demon of the Waste,&lt;ref&gt;&quot;The Afghauns believe each of the numerous solitudes and deserts of their country to be inhabited by a lonely demon, whom they call the Ghoolee Beeabau, or Spirit of the Waste. They often illustrate the wildness of any sequestered tribe, by saying, they are wild as the Demon of the Waste.&quot;—''Elphinstone's Caubul.''&lt;/ref&gt;
No church-yard Ghole, caught lingering in the light 
Of the blessed sun, ere blasted human sight 
With lineaments so foul, so fierce, as those 
Th' Impostor now in grinning mockery shows—
'There, ye wise Saints, behold your Light, your Star—
Ye ''would'' be dupes and victims, and ye ''are.''
Is it enough? or must I, while a thrill 
Lives in your sapient bosoms, cheat you still? 
Swear that the burning death you feel within 
Is but a trance, with which heaven's joys begin; 
That this foul visage, foul as e'er disgraced 
Even monstrous man, is—after God's own taste;&lt;/poem&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{block center/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Blackwood's Magazine volume 002.djvu/715</title>
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      <text bytes="4419" sha1="640fxyy35fv20ughj2xt3qa2a8es9tc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;{{rh|1818.]|''Regalia of Scotland.''|691}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Time's Magic Lanthern&quot; /&gt;''Mach.'' When he had replied in this manner, I was picqued at the notion that happiness could only be found among persons of humble spirits and shallow understandings; and I turned away from the apostle, to look at those who were passing along the other road. 

''Friend.'' Well, and who were they? 

''Mach.'' Popes, cardinals, kings, heroes, counsellors, and ambitious persons of every sort. The road shone with gold and purple, and these venerable figures, with long beards, did nothing but discourse of state affairs as they went along. All of them had the appearance of profound sagacity, and carried great wrinkled foreheads to the place of their destination. A company so august had evidently vacated many palaces and cabinets.—There was no individual in the procession who had not left mankind smarting, to make them remember him, and preserve his busts, portraits, and medallions. 

''Friend.'' Did you observe any of your contemporaries among them? 

''Mach.'' My dear friend, do not press me to mention names in my last moments. I observed no person there, who would have done good elsewhere. 

''Friend.'' And what thought you upon witnessing this spectacle, so different from the last? 

''Mach.'' I turned again to St Peter, and cried with a loud voice, that surely there would be more satisfaction in conversing with an assemblage of men, so noble, wise, and famous, than with a common herd of mechanics and simpletons. 

''Friend.'' Right. There lies the problem. 

''Mach.'' The apostle replied, that these men could not endure a state of repose; and having no longer the humble and well-meaning part of their species to practise upon, they would infallibly become the tormentors of each other. 

''Friend.'' Did you perceive where their march terminated? 

''Mach.'' Yes. Their path, as they advanced, grew more and more rugged, bursting into cracks, from whence issued infernal fire; and the crowd which formerly walked with decorum, and in good order, was now seen hurrying along, arm in arm, with fiends and demons. I heard loud huzzas and outcries, and the whole was soon lost in obscurity. 

''Friend.'' You have been reflecting with distaste upon some of the occupations of your past life, and your chagrin has produced this feverish dream. 

''Mach.'' No, Jerome, my nature is the same as ever; and unless Heaven mend me, I suspect I shall hardly grow into a little winged boy, with that sweet and sincere countenance which wins the key from St Peter. 

''Friend.'' Be of good cheer. You know not how much purgatory may effect for you. 

''Mach.'' Ah, my dear Jerome! I feel an inveterate passion for state affairs—Put aside that taper, for it pains my eyes—My pangs are returning—give me your hand once more, and receive my last thanks for your affectionate cares. Farewell—again—Farewell. 

''Atten.'' See, see! he is dying. 

''Friend.'' It will soon be over; and then a long adieu to poor Machiavel. 

&lt;section end=&quot;Time's Magic Lanthern&quot; /&gt;
{{blackwoods flared rule}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;Regalia of Scotland&quot; /&gt;{{c|{{asc|REGALIA OF SCOTLAND.}}}}

{{ppoem|end=follow| 
{{sc|Memorials}} of my country's doom! 
:What vanity has rent your shrowd, 
And broke your consecrated gloom, 
:To gratify a gazing crowd?
'Twas not till time had been allowed 
:To lay the race that owned you low, 
And every patriot arm subdued, 
:They dared your mute remains to show. 

Sole relics of the regal tree, 
:That sprang on Caledonia's hills, 
And spread its branches far and free, 
:Shadowing her rocks and mountain rills, 
A son of her's beholds and feels 
:Full sore for all your honours torn, 
Whose filial eye but ill conceals, 
:He deems you raised in pride and scorn. 

There was a time when you were born 
:For prouder and more sacred use, 
When, waded for through blood, and worn 
:In triumph by the mighty Bruce; 
The hero's mouldering dust to rouse, 
:Say, was it your degraded fame? 
Both disenshrined inglorious, 
:Twin witnesses of Scotland's shame.&lt;ref&gt;It is certainly not a little singular, that the ancient Regalia of our nation, and the remains of Bruce, should have been discovered at one and the same time.&lt;/ref&gt;

Resume your hallowed grave again, 
:For there our royal lineage sleep, 
But yet unnumbered hearts remain, 
:Their rigid fate to feel and weep;
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Regalia of Scotland&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695).djvu/11</title>
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{{TOC begin}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nop}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/Sylvia|Sylvia]], by the same Author.|p. 140.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/To Celia (&quot;As in those Nations where they yet adore&quot;)|To Celia]], by Sir Charles Sedley.|p. 142.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/The Submission|The Submission]], by the same Author.|p. 144.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/Constancy|Constancy]], by the same Author.|p. 146.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/The Indifference|The Indifference]], by the same Author.|p. 148.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/Pastoral Dialogue|Pastoral Dialogue]], by the same Author.|p. 152.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/To a Lady, who fled the sight of him|To a Lady, who fled the sight of him]], by Sir George Etherege.|p. 156.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/To a Lady, asking him how long he would Love her|To a Lady, asking him how long he would Love her]], by the same Author.|p. 158.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/To Mr. G. Granville, on his Verses to the King|To Mr. G. Granville, on his Verses to the King]], by Mr. Edmund Waller.|p. 159.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/To Mr. Waller|To Mr. Waller]], by Mr. G. Granville.|p. 160.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/On Myra's Singing|On Myra's Singing]], by the same Author.|p. 162.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/In praise of Myra|In praise of Myra]], by the same Author.|p. 164.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/Song (&quot;Prepar'd to Rail, Resolv'd to Part&quot;)|Song]], by the same Author.|p. 167.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/Song (&quot;So Smooth, and so Serene but now&quot;)|Song]], by the same Author.|p. 168.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/Verses sent from an unknown hand, to Mr. G. Gran­ville in the Countrey|Verses sent from an unknown hand, to Mr. G. Gran­ville in the Countrey.]]|p. 169.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/|Song]], by Sir George Etherege.|p. 171.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/To her Excellence, the Marchioness of New-Castle, after the reading her Incomparable Poems|To her Excellence, the Marchioness of New-Castle, after the reading her Incomparable Poems]], by the same Author.|p. 173.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/Epilogue to Tartuff|Epilogue to Tartuff]], spoken by himself, by a Person of Honour.*| p. 177.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/The Imperfect Injoyment|The Imperfect Injoyment]], by Sir George Etherege.|p. 180.}}
{{TOC row 2-1|[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/A Prologue spoken at the Opening of the Duke's New Play-house|A Prologue spoken at the Opening of the Duke's New Play-house]], by the same Author.|p. 184.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{TOC end}}
{{continues|''Falling''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Archæology of the Central Eskimos</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4827049</id>
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        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>remove work category</comment>
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      <text bytes="1473" sha1="3smzjt5m8y4r3qyv3hli9vpmppq38pp" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = Archæology of the Central Eskimos
 | author     = Therkel Mathiassen
 | translator = William Ernest Calvert | translator-display = W. E. Calvert
 | year       = 1927
 | categories = Inuit
 | notes      = Volume 4 of ''[[Report of the Fifth Thule Expedition, 1921–24]]''
}}

# [[/Part 1/]]: Descriptive Part
#* [[/Part 1/Introduction|Introduction]]
## [[/Part 1/Chapter 1|Chapter 1]]: The Naujan Find
## [[/Part 1/Chapter 2|Chapter 2]]: The Archaeology of Northern Baffin Land
## [[/Part 1/Chapter 3|Chapter 3]]: The Sadlermiut, the Extinct Eskimo tribe on Southampton Island
## [[/Part 1/Chapter 4|Chapter 4]]: Other Thule Culture Finds
# [[/Part 2/]]: The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 1|Chapter 1]]: The Thule Culture and its Representative Forms
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 2|Chapter 2]]: Analysis of the Thule Culture: The Spread of its Elements over Space and Time
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 3|Chapter 3]]: The Whale-Bone House and its Geographic Spread
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 4|Chapter 4]]: The Relationship of the Thule Culture to other Groups of Eskimo culture
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 5|Chapter 5]]: Origin of the Thule culture
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 6|Chapter 6]]: Development of Culture in the Central Regions
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 7|Chapter 7]]: Immigration of the Eskimos into Greenland
## [[/Part 2/Chapter 8|Chapter 8]]: Concluding remarks
#* [[/Part 2/Bibliography|Bibliography]]

{{PD-US|pubyear=1927}}</text>
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    <title>Page:Blackwood's Magazine volume 001.djvu/453</title>
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      <text bytes="4649" sha1="jlfquioo71nk80b8ct5zfp7qa0auar2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Hilohello&quot; /&gt;{{rh|1817.]|''Observations on Kemble's Essay.''|457}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;they originally possessed; and such is the case with this fiend of Scotland.&quot; 

His nature is not obdurate like that of {{sc|Richard}}; he looks back on his past life, when he is softened by the sense of that forlorn and deserted situation in which he stands, compared with that of the murdered {{sc|Duncant}}. 

{{block center|{{smaller block|&lt;poem&gt;{{gap|4em}}&quot;Duncan is in his grave, 
After life's fitful fever he sleeps well,&quot; &amp;c. 
{{gap|5em}}&quot;My way of life 
Is fallen into the sear and yellow leaf,&quot; &amp;c.&lt;/poem&gt;}}}}

Hence that scarce unwilling pity which we afford him, abated only, not extinguished, by the recollection of his past atrocities. 

Personal regard for Mr Kemble makes me, I confess, unwilling to dwell upon a work which I think unworthy of him. I will only quote one or two passages which fall particularly within the scope of his own profession, as a specimen of the style of the book. 

&quot;A play is written (says Mr Kemble) on some event, for the purpose of being acted; and plays are so inseparable from the notion of action, that, in reading them, our reflection, necessarily bodying forth the carriage which it conceives the various characters would sustain on the stage, becomes its own theatre, and gratifies itself with an ideal representation of the piece. This operation of the mind demonstrates, that Mr Whately has in this place once more misconstrued Shakspeare; for there is no risk in saying, that the eye of a spectator would turn, offended, from the affront offered to credibility, by the impassive levity of manner set down for Banquo in the {{sc|Remarks}}.&quot; ''Page'' 53. 

This is perfectly just; but we apprehend that the imagination of the reader would go a step higher than that to which Mr K. here conducts it. It is no doubt natural for a person who has often witnessed scenes represented on the stage (it is more particularly natural for Mr Kemble) to refer them to that representation; but a person conversant with men and books, but who had never seen a play, would refer them to the events actually happening in real life, and the language and deportment of those concerned in them, to the language and deportment which, in such real circumstances, they would have held. The ductility of our imaginations, in supposing ourselves spectators of events at Rome or Athens placed before us in the stage, has been often remarked. This scenic deception is of a very peculiar kind; it puts the reality a little way off, but does not altogether hide it from our view. We see Mr ''Kemble'' and Mrs ''Siddons,'' we know them for Mr K. and Mrs S.; but we judge of and feel for them as ''Coriolanus'' and ''Volumnia.'' It is an improvement on dramatic representation (which in this place I may mention to the honour of Mr Kemble) to bring the scene before us with all the mechanical adjuncts which may assist the deception. The dress of the performers, the streets and temples of the scene, the statues of the temples, and the furniture of apartments, should certainly be brought as near as possible to the costume and other circumstances belonging to the country and place of the representation; and this is what Mr Kemble, both as an actor and manager, has accomplished, to the great and everlasting improvement of the British stage. 

In another passage, Mr K. considers the ''moral effect'' of this drama, and contradicts the idea of Mr Steevens in the following passage. 

&quot;Mr Steevens says—'One of Shakspeare's favourite morals is, that criminality reduces the brave and pusillanimous to a level.'—(Mr Steevens probably meant to say, that criminality reduces the brave to a level with the pusillanimous.)—{{'}}''Every puny whipster gets my sword,'' exclaims Othello, ''for why should honour outlive  honesty?—Where I could not be honest,'' says Albany, ''I was never valiant.''—Jachimo imputes his ''want of manhood'' to the heaviness and guilt ''within his bosom.''—Hamlet asserts, that ''conscience does make cowards of us all;'' and Imogen tells Pisanio, ''he may be valiant in a better cause, but now he seems a coward.' Shakspeare,'' vol. x. p. 297. 

&quot;Is there, among these instances, one that approaches to any thing like a parallel with Macbeth? The sophistry of such perverse trifling with a reader's time and patience, completely exposes itself in the example of Jaehimo, who is indeed most unwarily introduced on this occasion. Mr Steevens, for some cause or other, seems determined to be blind on this side; otherwise, he must have seen, if consciousness of guilt be, as he says, the measure of pusillanimity, that, by his own rule,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Scott's Last Expedition */ new section</comment>
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      <text bytes="652" sha1="1vidjhp9bras1hf19zysoz5wkqc3fqs" xml:space="preserve">{{welcome anon|page=Page:Scott's Last Expedition, Volume 1.djvu/461}} — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 15:45, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

== Scott's Last Expedition ==

Thank you for your work on [[Index:Scott's Last Expedition, Volume 2.djvu]]!  You are fully justified in changing each page you work on to  &quot;proofread&quot; (yellow) status.  Then I can come along and validate them. -[[User:McGhiever|McGhiever]] ([[User talk:McGhiever|talk]]) 19:51, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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      <text bytes="778" sha1="2a970wwcy1gempnsk5vvxupsv6quvol" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;InfernoHues&quot; /&gt;{{blue|{{rh|Case 1:25-cv-00716-BAH|Document 184|Filed 05/02/25|Page 5 of 5}}}}
{{left margin/s|2em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;:iv. provide counsel for plaintiff with a copy of such communication(s), within 7 days of issuance of such communication(s); it is further
{{left margin/e}}

'''(5) ORDERED''' that this Court shall retain jurisdiction to enforce or modify this Order; and it is further

'''(6) ORDERED''' that the Clerk of the Court shall close this case.

'''SO ORDERED.'''

''This is a final and appealable order.''

Date: May 2, 2025

{{block right|width=25em|
[[File:Seal of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.png|50px]] [[File:Beryl A. Howell Signature.svg|150px]]{{br}}
____________________________{{br}}
'''BERYL A. HOWELL'''{{br}}
United States District Judge
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|5}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Blackwood's Magazine volume 002.djvu/747</title>
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      <text bytes="7072" sha1="6bwdo919mmy8ny48jksd8j964fhe3qn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;{{rh|1818.]|''Register.-Births, Marriages, and Deaths.''|723}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Agricultural Report&quot; /&gt;{{c|EDINBURGH.―{{sc|March}} 11.}}

{| {{ts|mc}}
! colspan=2 | Wheat. || colspan=2 | Barley. || colspan=2 | Oats. || colspan=2 | Pease. || colspan=2 | Beans.
|-
| 1st || 43s. 6d. || 1st || 34s. 6d. || 1st || 36s. 0d. || 1st || 36s. 0d.
|-
| 2d || 40s. 0d. || 2d || 31s. 0d. || 2d || 29s. 0d. || 2d || 32s. 0d. 
|-
| 3d || 27s. 0d. || 3d || 28s. 0d. || 3d || 25s. 0d. || 3d || 29s. 0d.
|}

{{c|''Wednesday, March'' 11.}}

{{div col}}
{| {{ts|mc}}
| Beef (17{{frac|1|2}} oz. per lb.) || 0s. 4d. || to || 0s. 8d.
|-
| Mutton || 0s. 7d. || to || 0s. 8d.
|-
| Lamb, per quarter || 10s. 0d. || to || 12s. 0d.
|-
| Veal || 0s. 8d. || to || 1s. 0d.
|-
| Pork || 0s. 5d. || to || 0s. 7d.
|-
| Tallow, per stone || 11s. 6d. || to || 12s. 0d. 
|-
| Quartern Loaf || 1s. 0d. || to || 1s. 1d.
|-
| Potatoes (28 lb.) || 0s. 8d. || to || 0s. 10d. 
|-
| Butter, per lb. || 1s. 6d. || to || 1s. 10d.
|-
| Salt do. per stone || 0s. 0d. || to || 0s. 0d.
|-
| Ditto per lb. || 0s. 0d. || to || 0s. 0d.
|-
| Eggs, per dozen || 0s. 11d. || to || 0s. 0d.
|}
{{div col end}}


{{c|''London, Corn Exchange, March'' 9.}}

{{div col|cols=4}}
{| {{ts|mc}}
! || s. || || s.
|-
| Foreign Wheat || 60 || to || 70
|-
| Fine do. || 74 || to || 85
|-
| Superfine do. || 84 || to || 86
|-
| Old do. || ― || to || ―
|-
| English Wheat || 65 || to || 73
|-
| Fine do. || 86 || to || 93
|-
| Superfine do. || 94 || to || 96
|-
| Rye (new) || 40 || to || 50
|-
| Barley (new) || 30 || to || 44
|-
| Superfine do. || 48 || to || 53
|-
| Malt || 60 || to || 74
|-
| Fine do. || 76 || to || 80
|-
| Hog Pease || 40 || to || 45
|-
| Maple || 42 || to || 48
|-
| White Pease || 44 || to || 48
|-
| Boilers || 50 || to || 52
|-
| Small Beans || 42 || to || 52
|-
| Old do. || 54 || to || 62
|-
| Tick do. || 36 || to || 45
|-
| Old do. || 42 || to || 50
|-
| Feed Oats || 22 || to || 24
|-
| Fine do. || 26 || to || 30
|-
| Poland do. || 24 || to || 30
|-
| Fine do. || 32 || to || 36
|-
| Fine Flour || 75 || to || 80
|-
| Seconds || 70 || to || 75
|-
| Bran || 11 || to || 12
|-
| Fine Pollard || 16 || to || 30
|}
{{div col end}}


{{c|''Seeds, &amp;c.―March'' 13.}}

{{div col|cols=4}}
{| {{ts|mc}}
! || s. || || s.
|-
| Mustard, Brown, New || 12 || to || 21
|-
| ― White || 5 || to || 11
|-
| Tares || 10 || to || 14
|-
| Turnip, White || ― || to || ―
|-
| ― Red || ― || to || ―
|-
| ― Yellow, new || 14 || to || 20
|-
| Canary || 70 || to || 90
|-
| Hempseed || 80 || to || 84
|-
| Linseed || 80 || to || 90
|-
| Cinquefoil || ― || to || ―
|-
| Ryegrass (Pace's) || ― || to || ―
|-
| ― Common || ― || to || ―
|-
| Clover, English,
|-
| ― Red || ― || to || ―
|-
| ― White || ― || to || ―
|-
| Trefoil || 14 || to || 50
|-
| Rib Grass || ― || to || ―
|-
| Carraway Eng. || 48 || to || 56
|-
| ― Foreign || 38 || to || 50
|-
| Coriander || 16 || to || 24
|-
| New Rapeseed || £50 || to || £54.
|}
{{div col end}}


{{c|''Liverpool, March'' 7.}}

{{div col|cols=4}}
{| {{ts|mc}}
! || s. d. || || s. d.
|-
| Wheat, per 70 lbs.
|-
| English || 13 3 || to || 14 3
|-
| Scotch || 13 0 || to || 13 6
|-
| Welch || 13 0 || to || 13 6
|-
| Irish || 11 0 || to || 12 0
|-
| Dantzic || 13 0 || to || 14 0
|-
| Wismar || 12 6 || to || 13 0
|-
| American || 13 6 || to || 14 0
|-
| Quebec || 11 0 || to || 12 0
|-
| Barley, per 60 lbs.
|-
| English || 7 6 || to || 8 3
|-
| Scotch || 7 0 || to || 7 6
|-
| Irish || 6 6 || to || 7 0
|-
| Malt p. 9 gls. || 10 9 || to || 11 9
|-
| Rye, per qr. || 54 0 || to || 56 0
|-
| Oats, per 45 lb.
|-
| Eng. pota. || 4 7 || to || 4 11
|-
| Welsh || 4 7 || to || 4 10
|-
| Scotch || 4 7 || to || 4 11
|-
| Foreign || 4 5 || to || 4 7
|-
| Irish || 4 7 || to || 4 11
|-
| Rapeseed, p.l. || £0 || to || £0
|-
| Flaxseed, p. bus. sowing || 0 || to || 0
|-
| Beans, pr qr.
|-
| English || 0 0 || to || 0 0
|-
| Foreign || 0 0 || to || 0 0
|-
| Pease, per quar.
|-
| ― Boiling || 56 0 || to || 60 0
|-
| Rice, p. cwt. || 41 6 || to || 44 0
|-
| Flour, English, p. 280 lb. fine || 70 0 || to || 71 0
|-
| ― Seconds || 60 0 || to || 65 0
|-
| ― Irish p. 240 lb. || ― || to || ―
|-
| Ameri. p. bl. || 56 0 || to || 58 0
|-
| ― Sour do. || 44 0 || to || 46 0
|-
| Clover-seed, p. bush.
|-
| ― White || ― || to || ―
|-
| ― Red || ― || to || ―
|-
| Oatmeal, per 240 lb.
|-
| English || 41 0 || to || 43 0
|-
| Scotch || 40 0 || to || 41 0 
|-
| Irish || 38 0 || to || 40 0
|-
| colspan=4 | ''Butter, Beef, &amp;c.''
|-
| Butter, per cwt. || s. || || s.
|-
| Belfast || 134 || to || 0
|-
| Newry || 130 || to || 0
|-
| Drogheda || 0 || to || 0
|-
| Waterford (new) || 0 || to || 0
|-
| Cork, 3d || 0 || to || 0
|-
| ― New, 2d, pickled || || || 136
|-
| Beef, p. tierce || 95 || to || 100
|-
| ― p. barrel || 60 || to || 63
|-
| Pork, p. brl. || 0 || to || 0
|-
| Bacon, per cwt. 
|-
| ― Short middles || 74 || to || 76
|-
| ― Long do. || 0 || to || 0
|}
{{div col end}}


{{c|''Average Prices of Corn of England and Wales, from the Returns received in the Week ended 21st February 1818.''}}

Wheat, 85s. 2d.―Rye, 50s. 8d.―Barley, 45s. 10d.―Oats, 54s. 10d.―Beans, 0s. 0d.―Pease, 52s. 1d.―Oatmeal, 33s. 4d.―Beer or Big, 0s. 0d. 


{{c|''Average Prices of British Corn in Scotland, by the Quarter of Eight Winchester Bushels, and Oatmeal, per Boll of 128 lbs. Scots Troy, or 140 lbs. Avoirdupois, of the Four Weeks immediately preceding the 15th February 1818.''}} 

Wheat, 69s. 9d.―Rye, 61s. 9d.―Barley, 41s. 3d.―Oats, 32s. 11d.―Beans, 52s. 10d.―Pease, 52s. 8d.―Oatmeal, 28s. 7d.―Beer or Big, 40s. 3d. 

{{rule}}{{rule}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Agricultural Report&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Births, Marriages, and Deaths&quot; /&gt;{{c|{{larger|BIRTHS, MARRIAGES, AND DEATHS.}}}}
{{rule|3em}}

{{c|{{asc|BIRTHS.}}}} 

''Sept.'' 5, 1817. At Surat, the lady of John Romer, Esq. judge and magistrate at that place, a son. 

''Jan.'' 2, 1818. At Edinburgh, the lady of Sir Andrew Agnew of Lochnaw, Bart. a son and heir.―Mrs Alexander Ross, George's Square, Edinburgh, a son.―5. At Memel, Mrs Charles Stewart, a daughter.―22. In Albany Street, Edinburgh, the lady of Alexander Kennedy, Esq. a daughter.―26. Lady Romilly, a still-born child.―At Plymouth, the lady of Rear-admiral Lindsay, a daughter.―29. At Springfield, in the county of Warwick, the lady of Major Dundas of Carron-hall, in the county of Stirling, a daughter. 

''Feb.'' 3. Mrs William Watt, at Portobello, a son.―At Edradynate, Mrs Stewart Robertson, a daughter.―4. In Piccadilly, London, the lady of the Hon. Drummond Burrell, a son and heir.―5. In George's Square, Edinburgh, Mrs Mitchell, a son.―6. Mrs Heriot of Ramornie, a son.―The lady of the deceased Sir John Carmichael Anstruther, Bart. a posthumous son.―In Northumberland Street, Edinburgh, the lady of Major-general John Hope, a son.―Mrs Scott, 64, Frederick Street, Edinburgh, a son.―At Chapelton, the lady of Captain
&lt;section end=&quot;Births, Marriages, and Deaths&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <origin>15132338</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6205" sha1="kxbivn6zpbcv3bfu548jr48cu4225ur" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;{{rh|1818.]|''Register.-Commercial Report.''|719}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''Course of Exchange'', March 13.―Amsterdam, 36: 10, 2 U. Paris, 24:5. Boreaux, 24:20. Frankfort on the Maine, 142 Ex. Madrid, 39{{frac|3|4}} effect. Cadiz, 39{{frac|1|4}} effect. Gibraltar, 35. Leghorn, 51{{frac|3|4}}. Genoa, 47{{frac|3|4}}. Malta, 51. Naples, 43{{frac|1|2}}. Palermo, 129 per oz. Lisbon, 58{{frac|3|4}}. Rio Janeiro, 67{{frac|1|2}}. Dublin, 8{{frac|3|4}}. Cork, 9. Agio of the Bank of Holland, 2. 

''Prices of Gold and Silver, per oz.''―Portugal gold, in coin, £4:1:6. New dollars, 5s. 5d. Foreign gold, in bars, £4:1:6. New doubloons, £4:1. Silver, in bars, stand. 5s. 4d. 


{{c|''Weekly Price of Stocks, from 3d to 24th February'' 1818.}}

{| {{ts|mc|ac}} 
! || 3d. || 10th. || 17th. || 24th. 
|-
| {{ts|al}} | Bank stock, || 285{{frac|1|2}} || 290{{frac|1|2}} || 289{{frac|1|2}} || {{longdash}}
|-
| {{ts|al}} | 3 per cent. reduced, || 79{{frac|7|8}} || 81{{frac|1|8}} || 80{{frac|5|8}}
|-
| {{ts|al}} | 3 per cent. consols, || 79{{frac|1|8}}, 79 || 80{{frac|1|2}}, 80 || 79{{frac|3|4}}, {{frac|7|8}} || {{longdash}}
|-
| {{ts|al}} | 4 per cent. consols, || 98{{frac|5|8}} || 99{{frac|5|8}} || 99{{frac|1|2}} || {{longdash}}
|-
| {{ts|al}} | 5 per cent. navy ann. || 105{{frac|1|8}} || 106{{frac|1|8}} || 106{{frac|1|4}} || {{longdash}}
|-
| {{ts|al}} | Imperial 3 per cent. ann. || 78{{frac|1|2}} || {{longdash}} || 79{{frac|1|4}} || {{longdash}}
|-
| {{ts|al}} | India stock, || 239{{frac|1|2}} || {{longdash}} || {{longdash}} || {{longdash}}
|-
| {{ts|al}} | {{longdash}} bonds, || 101 pr. || 97 pr. || 99 pr. || {{longdash}}
|-
| {{ts|al}} | Exchequer bills, 2{{frac|1|2}}d. p. day, || 29 pr. || 28 pr. || 27 pr. || {{longdash}}
|-
| {{ts|al}} | Consols for acc. || 79{{frac|1|4}} {{frac|1|8}} || 80{{frac|1|2}} {{frac|5|8}} {{frac|1|4}} {{frac|1|4}} || 79{{frac|7|8}} 80, 79{{frac|3|4}} {{frac|7|8}} || {{longdash}}
|-
| {{ts|al}} | American 3 per cent. || {{longdash}} || {{longdash}} || {{longdash}} || 65
|-
| {{ts|al}} | {{longdash}} new loan, 6 per cent. || {{longdash}} || {{longdash}} || {{longdash}} || 103, 103{{frac|1|2}}
|-
| {{ts|al}} | French 5 per cents. || {{longdash}} || {{longdash}} || {{longdash}} || 66 f. 55c. 
|}

{{Blackwoods flared rule}}

{{c|{{sc|Alphabetical List of English Bankruptcies}}, announced between the 1st and 28th February 1818, extracted from the London Gazette.}}

{{div col}}
{{plainlist/s}}
* Ablitt, N. Great Yarmouth, corn-merchant 
* Arndit, J. G. and J. C. Moessner, Coleman Street, toy-merchants 
* Andrew, P. M. Melcombe Regis, Dorsetshire, milliner 
* Barker, R., J. Barker, and J. Barker, Lane End, Staffordshire, potters 
* Baynton, T. and W. Kidderminster, grocers 
* Batt, W. Wedmore, Somersetshire, horse-dealer 
* Bailey, J. Reading, Berkshire, linen-draper 
* Baker, J. Bath, tailor 
* Bone, G. Webb's County, Terrace, Kent Road, merchant 
* Boss, W. George Street, Euston Square, gun-maker 
* Bottrell, T. Ratcliff Highway, victualler 
* Bradfield, F. Wymondham, Norfolk, grocer 
* Bray, R. Gosport, haberdasher 
* Brewer, J. A. Bath, printer 
* Brown, J. York, woollen-draper 
* Brown, H. Doncaster, dealer in clothes 
* Brown, A. Ruddington, Nottinghamshire, butcher 
* Brown, C. Jeffrey's Terrace, Kentish Town, jeweller 
* Brush, J. A. Liverpool, merchant 
* Basset, M. Church Street, Greenwich, boot and shoemaker 
* Baish, W. Saffron Waldon, Essex, carpenter 
* Bristol, James R. Bristol, cabinet-maker 
* Broughall, R. Shrewsbury, grocer 
* Brooke, J. and C. Bowstead Nantwich, Cheshire, brewers 
* Byrn, C. H. Bush Lane, Cannon Street, wine-merchant 
* Calverley, R. Kegworth, Leicestershire, miller 
* Carter, R. New Woodstock, Oxford, ironmonger 
* Champion, T. Westham Abbey, Essex, farmer 
* Cheetham, J. Oldham, Lancashire, shoemaker 
* Churchill, S. late of Oxford Street, distiller 
* Coates, W. Skipton, Yorkshire, grocer 
* Cooke, J. S. S. Golden Lane, cheesemonger 
* Collins, J. Gosport, Hants, grocer 
* Cross, R. Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, victualler 
* Cotsford, W. F. Upper Clapton, Middlesex, plumber and glazier 
* Dawson, T. and J. Reith, Yorkshire, drapers 
* Eardly, C. Stockport, Cheshire, cotton-spinner 
* Evans, D. Liverpool, grocer 
* Everitt, J. and S. and E. Nash, Westminster Road, stable-keepers 
* Fearnley, T. Portsmouth, slop-seller 
* Goldspink, R. Brooke, Norfolk, butcher 
* Goodyear, T. Aldersgate Street, straw-hat-manufacturer 
* Green, S. Mill Street, Lambeth, blacking manufacturer 
* Griffin, T. Pedlar's Acre, Lambeth, timber merchant 
* Hanson, J. Southwick, Hants, victualler 
* Hawes, J. Ipswich, pawn-broker 
* Hillear, W. Winchester, brewer 
* Hinscliff, J. Halifax, dealer 
* Hill, J. Baldwin Street, Bristol, ironmonger 
* Hill, J. Bradwell, Derbyshire, baker 
* Hoffman, L. Liverpool, brewer 
* Hopkins, W. Aldersgate, cooper 
* Howkins, J., Pennyfields, and T. Morris and W. Constable, Blackwall, builders 
* Howie, J. Liverpool, grocer 
* Houlding, J. Liverpool, cotton-broker 
* Hurry, S. Angel Court, Throgmorton Street, broker 
* Hyde, W. Earl Street, Blackfriars, merchant 
* Jenden, C. Worthing, Sussex, saddler 
* Jones, J. Billingsley, Homel Lacy, Herefordshire, corn-dealer 
* Jump, J. and T. Hargroves, Fore Street, hat-manufacturers 
* Keene, T. Fulham, victualler 
* Knight, B. Stafford, baker 
* Latcham, C. Bristol, money-scrivener 
* Legg, T. Cooper's Row, Tower Hill, merchant 
* Lloyd, W. and W. Lower Thames Street, slop sellers 
* Lloyd, Lianasa, Flintshire, clerk 
* Lock, G. High Street, Woolwich 
* Miller, J. Regent's Terrace, Chelsea, merchant 
* Parsons, J. Manchester, cotton-manufacturer 
* Par, J. O. Liverpool, merchant 
* Page, J. Bermondsey Street, Southwark, grocer 
* Pallister, T. York, currier 
* Pickard, O. Liverpool, coach-maker 
* Pilsbury T. Chelsea, tailor 
* Polly, J. Thayer Street, Manchester Square, linen furniture-dealer 
* Powell, J. Presteign, Radnor, farmer 
* Powell, P. M. Hastings, librarian 
* Powis, R. Grosvenor Mews, veterinary surgeon 
* Porter, T. Arthret, Cumberland, shopkeeper 
* Privett, P. Bighton, Hampshire, maltster 
* Procor, W. Sheffield, optician 
* Proctor, W. Kettleshulme, Chester, calico-printer&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{plainlist/e}}
{{div col end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Blackwood's Magazine volume 002.djvu/745</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4829429</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132333</id>
      <parentid>15081888</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:44:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>8435</id>
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      <text bytes="6016" sha1="jecfumy0b1u42q8qtsqesl2sbmryzdx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;{{rh|1818.]|''Register.-Meteorological Report.''|721}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{larger|{{sc|Meteorological Table}}, ''extracted from the Register kept on the Banks of the Tay, four miles east from Perth, Latitud'' 56° 25', ''Elevation'' 185 ''feet.''}}

{{sc|February 1818.}}
}}

{{div col|rule=1px solid}}

{{c|''Means.''}}

{| {{ts|mc}}
|-
| {{ts|ac}} | THERMOMETER. || Degrees.
|-
| Mean of greatest daily heat, || 40.1
|-
| {{. . .|12}} cold, || 30.8
|-
| {{. . .|3}} temperature, 10 A.M. || 35.8
|-
| {{. . .|10}} 10 P. M. || 34.4
|-
| {{. . .|3}} of daily extremes, || 35.4
|-
| {{. . .|4}} 10 A.M. and 10 P.M. || 35.1
|-
| {{. . .|4}} 4 daily observations, || 35.2
|-
| Whole range of thermometer, || 260.0
|-
| Mean daily ditto, || 9.3
|-
| {{. . .|3}} temperature of spring water, || 38.0
|-
| &amp;nbsp;
|-
| {{ts|ac}} | BAROMETER. || Inches.
|-
| Mean of 10 A.M. (temp. of mer. 39°) || 29.401
|-
| {{. . .|5}} 10 P.M. (temp. of mer. 39) || 29.363
|-
| {{. . .|5}} both, (temp. of mer. 39) || 29.382
|-
| Whole range of barometer, || 7.716
|-
| Mean daily ditto, || .275
|-
| &amp;nbsp;
|-
| {{ts|ac}} | HYGROMETER (LESLIE'S.) || Degrees
|-
| Mean dryness, 10 A.M. || 7.9
|-
| {{. . .|8}} 10 P.M. || 6.1
|-
| {{. . .|8}} of both, || 7.0
|-
| {{. . .|4}} point of deposition 10 A.M. || 30.1
|-
| {{. . .|14}} 10 P.M. || 29.8
|-
| {{. . .|14}} of both, || 29.9
|-
| Rain in inches, || 1.219
|-
| Evaporation in ditto, || .650
|-
| Mean daily Evaporation, || .023
|-
| &amp;nbsp;
|-
| {{ts|ac}} | WILSON'S HYGROMETER
|-
| Mean dryness, 10 A.M. || 17.2
|-
| {{. . .|8}} 10 P.M. || 15.1
|} 

{{c|''Extremes.''}}

{| {{ts|mc}}
|-
| colspan=2 {{ts|ac}} | THERMOMETER. || Degrees.
|-
| Maximum, || 18th day, || 50.0
|-
| Minimum, || 4th, || 16.5
|-
| Lowest maximum, || 4th, || 26.0
|-
| Highest minimum, || 17th, || 42.0
|-
| Highest, 10 A.M. || 18th, || 46.0
|-
| Lowest ditto, || 4th, || 21.0
|-
| Highest, 10 P.M. || 18th, || 44.0
|-
| Lowest ditto || 4th, || 18.0
|-
| Greatest range in 24 hours, || 25th, || 16.0
|-
| Least ditto, || 12th, || 5.5
|-
| &amp;nbsp;
|-
| colspan=2 {{ts|ac}} | BAROMETER. || Inches.
|-
| Highest, 10 A.M. || 11th, || 30.050
|-
| Lowest ditto, || 1st, || 28.632
|-
| Highest, 10 P.M. || 11th, || 29.962
|-
| Lowest ditto, || 1st, || 28.640
|-
| Greatest range in 24 hours, || 20th, || .750
|-
| Least ditto, || 6th, || .055
|-
| &amp;nbsp;
|-
| colspan=2 {{ts|ac}} | HYGROMETER. || Degrees.
|-
| Highest, 10 A.M. || 26th, || 22.0
|-
| Lowest ditto, || 4th, || 0.0
|-
| Highest, 10 P.M. || 23d, || 20.0
|-
| Lowest ditto, || 4th, || 0.0
|-
| Highest P. of D. 10 A.M. || 18th, || 43.0
|-
| Lowest ditto, || 5th, || 17.0
|-
| Highest P. of D. 10 P.M. || 17th, || 41.0
|-
| Lowest ditto, || 4th, || 18.0
|-
| &amp;nbsp;
|-
| colspan=2 {{ts|ac}} | WILSON'S HYGROMETER.
|-
| Greatest dryness, || 26th, 10 A.M. || 38.0
|-
| Least ditto, || 16th, 10 P.M. || 4.0
|}

{{div col end}}

{{c|Fair days 16; rainy days 12. Wind west of meridian 23; East of meridian 5.}}


{{rule|5em}}

{{c|{{larger|{{sc|Meteorological Table}}, ''extracted from the Register kept at Edinburgh, in the Observatory, Calton-hill.''}} 

N.B.―The Observations are made twice every day, at eight o'clock in the morning, and eight o'clock in the evening.
}}

{{div col|rule=1px solid}}

{| {{ts|mc}}
! || Ther. || Barom. || Attach.&lt;br/&gt;Ther. || Wind. 
|-
| Feb. 1 || M. 33&lt;br/&gt;E. 32 || 28.425&lt;br/&gt;.493 || M. 35&lt;br/&gt;E.35 || Cbe. || Snow morn. frost all day.
|-
| 2 || M. 28&lt;br/&gt;E. 25 || .570&lt;br/&gt;.667 || M. 31&lt;br/&gt;E. 31 || Cble. || Clear frost.
|-
| 3 || M. 24&lt;br/&gt;E. 27 || .801&lt;br/&gt;.857 || M. 29&lt;br/&gt;E. 31 || Cble. || Snow morn. frost all day.
|-
| 4 || M. 26&lt;br/&gt;E. 25 || .877&lt;br/&gt;.877 || M. 32&lt;br/&gt;E. 34 || Cble. || Clear frost.
|-
| 5 || M. 29&lt;br/&gt;E. 32 || 29.103&lt;br/&gt;.340 || M. 30&lt;br/&gt;E. 32 || Cble. || Cloud. frost.
|-
| 6 || M. 32&lt;br/&gt;E. 36 || .620&lt;br/&gt;.425 || M. 32&lt;br/&gt;E. 36 || W. || Cloud. frost.
|-
| 7 || M. 37&lt;br/&gt;E. 39 || .639&lt;br/&gt;.409 || M. 36&lt;br/&gt;E. 38 || W. || Fresh, rain afternoon.
|-
| 8 || M. 38&lt;br/&gt;E. 39 || .466&lt;br/&gt;.631 || M. 38&lt;br/&gt;E. 39 || W. || Clear and cold.
|-
| 9 || M. 37&lt;br/&gt;E. 38 || .464&lt;br/&gt;.670 || M. 39&lt;br/&gt;E. 40 || S.W. || Clear, mild.
|-
| 10 || M. 38&lt;br/&gt;E. 42 || .657&lt;br/&gt;.703 || M. 39&lt;br/&gt;E. 42 || S.W. || Cloudy.
|-
| 11 || M. 37&lt;br/&gt;E. 38 || .894&lt;br/&gt;.850 || M. 40&lt;br/&gt;E. 40 || N.W. || Frost, clear.
|-
| 12 || M. 40&lt;br/&gt;E. 42 || .717&lt;br/&gt;.618 || M. 41&lt;br/&gt;E. 43 || S.W. || Cloudy.
|-
| 13 || M. 40&lt;br/&gt;E. 38 || .650&lt;br/&gt;.588 || M. 42&lt;br/&gt;E. 41 || W. || Cloudy.
|-
| 14 || M. 32&lt;br/&gt;E. 53 || .492&lt;br/&gt;.428 || M. 37&lt;br/&gt;E. 38 || Cble. || Clear frost.
|}

{| {{ts|mc}}
! || Ther. || Barom. || Attach.&lt;br/&gt;Ther. || Wind. 
|-
| Feb. 15 || M. 25&lt;br/&gt;E. 36 || 29.643&lt;br/&gt;.643 || M. 38&lt;br/&gt;E. 39 || S.E. || Frost morn. mild fore.
|-
| 16 || M. 29&lt;br/&gt;E. 42 || .506&lt;br/&gt;.428 || M. 34&lt;br/&gt;E. 40 || Cble. || Cloud. frost, rain even.
|-
| 17 || M. 40&lt;br/&gt;E. 46 || .599&lt;br/&gt;.468 || M. 40&lt;br/&gt;E. 45 || S.W. || Cloudy, mild.
|-
| 18 || M. 47&lt;br/&gt;E. 48 || .304&lt;br/&gt;.209 || M. 47&lt;br/&gt;E. 47 || S.W. || Cloudy, mild rain even.
|-
| 19 || M. 44&lt;br/&gt;E. 38 || .429&lt;br/&gt;.465 || M. 45&lt;br/&gt;E. 42 || W. || Rain fore. fair after.
|-
| 20 || M. 35&lt;br/&gt;E. 36 || .519&lt;br/&gt;.394 || M. 40&lt;br/&gt;E. 39 || W. || Fair, frost. snow even.
|-
| 21 || M. 41&lt;br/&gt;E. 33 || 28.825&lt;br/&gt;.755 || M. 40&lt;br/&gt;E. 37 || S.W. || Stormy, rain, snow, sleet.
|-
| 22 || M. 34&lt;br/&gt;E. 32 || .806&lt;br/&gt;.892 || M. 40&lt;br/&gt;E. 37 || S.W. || Frost.
|-
| 23 || M. 35&lt;br/&gt;E. 37 || 29.213&lt;br/&gt;28.907 || M. 37&lt;br/&gt;E. 39 || Cble. || Stormy, fros sleet, rain.
|-
| 24 || M. 32&lt;br/&gt;E. 36 || .925&lt;br/&gt;.812 || M. 35&lt;br/&gt;E. 39 || N.W. || Wind high, frost.
|-
| 25 || M. 43&lt;br/&gt;E. 39 || .792&lt;br/&gt;.995 || M. 43&lt;br/&gt;E. 42 || N.W. || Ditto, rain and sleet.
|-
| 26 || M. 34&lt;br/&gt;E. 32 || 29.154&lt;br/&gt;.250 || M. 38&lt;br/&gt;E. 37 || N.W. || Clear frost.
|-
| 27 || M. 35&lt;br/&gt;E. 37 || 28.853&lt;br/&gt;.894 || M. 37&lt;br/&gt;E. 38 || N.W. || Frost, snow &amp;c.
|-
| {{SIC|29|28}} || M. 36&lt;br/&gt;E. 39 || 29.140&lt;br/&gt;28.541 || M. 37&lt;br/&gt;E. 40 || Cble. || Frost morn rain after.
|}

{{c|Rain .8 inches.}} 

{{div col end}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)</title>
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    <id>4830237</id>
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        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
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      <text bytes="635" sha1="lf6d1afu0sdjpqyd5ko30yj640hk6cc" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = The Shipwreck
 | author     = William Falconer
 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1762
 | notes      = 
}}
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{{AuxTOC|title=Contents|
*[[/Dedication|Dedication]]
*[[/Advertisement|Advertisement]]
*[[/The Shipwreck|The Shipwreck]]
}}

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      <text bytes="647" sha1="qx3jimc9376kdnjghpyw0xc5iuge9du" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = The Shipwreck
 | author     = William Falconer (1732-1769)
 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
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 | year       = 1762
 | notes      = 
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*[[/Dedication|Dedication]]
*[[/Advertisement|Advertisement]]
*[[/The Shipwreck|The Shipwreck]]
}}

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      <text bytes="716" sha1="o2kn51xsknvplgss45oml6t46y9o8i2" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = The Shipwreck
 | author     = William Falconer (1732-1769)
 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1762
 | notes      = First published in 1762,, this transcription is of the first edition.
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*[[/Dedication|Dedication]]
*[[/Advertisement|Advertisement]]
*[[/The Shipwreck|The Shipwreck]]
}}

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 | title      = The Shipwreck
 | author     = William Falconer (1732-1769)
 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1762
 | notes      = First published in 1762, this transcription is of the first edition.
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&lt;pages index=&quot;The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu&quot;  include=4 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu&quot;  include=6 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu&quot;  include=8 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu&quot;  include=14 /&gt;
{{dhr}}
{{AuxTOC|title=Contents|
*[[/Dedication|Dedication]]
*[[/Advertisement|Advertisement]]
*[[/The Shipwreck|The Shipwreck]]
}}

{{PD-old}}
{{authority control}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 3/Wireless Station at Cape Breton</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4831067</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132216</id>
      <parentid>15112212</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:58:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>fix previous link</comment>
      <origin>15132216</origin>
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      <text bytes="490" sha1="bbgrtu61qn6fw2qo5zf6fdjyoesxzc8" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = [[Acadiensis]], [[Acadiensis/Volume 2|Vol. II]], [[Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 3|No. 3]]
 | editor      = David Russell Jack
 | contributor =  | translator  = 
 | section     = Wireless Station at Cape Breton
 | previous    = [[../Query/]]
 | next        = [[Acadiensis]], [[Acadiensis/Volume 2|Vol. II]], [[Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 4|No. 4]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}
{{default layout|Layout 2}}

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      <contributor>
        <username>CitationsFreak</username>
        <id>3075522</id>
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      <comment>pd</comment>
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      <text bytes="329" sha1="0baef5i1ybdfz3x65jt49c9knvu9znm" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = {{auto parents}}
 | author     = | section_author = A. G. D. West
 | translator = 
 | section    = The Choice of a Receiving Set
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | notes      = 
}}

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      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
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Automatically generated data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
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      <parentid>15131392</parentid>
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      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15131595</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
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Automatically generated data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
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		q1 = 1180,
		q2 = 186,
		q3 = 3991,
		q4 = 2098,
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			q4 = 32,
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			q4 = 46,
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			q1 = 47,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 228,
			q4 = 105,
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			q3 = 272,
			q4 = 11,
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			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 275,
			q4 = 32,
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		[&quot;Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf&quot;] = {
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			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 25,
		},
		[&quot;Do We Agree? (1928).pdf&quot;] = {
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			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Pushkin - Boris Godunov (Kegan Paul, 1918).djvu&quot;] = {
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			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Charles Dickens (a Critical Study) by George Gissing, 1898.djvu&quot;] = {
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			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 48,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot;] = {
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			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
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		},
		[&quot;Iracéma, the honey-lips (1886).djvu&quot;] = {
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			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 3,
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			q0 = 31,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 24,
			q3 = 150,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 44,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 102,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Pirates of Venus.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 23,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 43,
		},
		[&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 146,
			q0 = 17,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;Helen Keller - The Story of My Life.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 502,
			q0 = 38,
			q1 = 111,
			q2 = 17,
			q3 = 33,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;With Sa'di in the Garden, or The Book of Love (1888).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 232,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 3,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Alice Lauder.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 276,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 239,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;The Emperor Jones (IA emperorjones00onei).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 70,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 42,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Floor games (IA floorgames00well).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 124,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 101,
		},
		[&quot;Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 356,
			q0 = 26,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 330,
		},
		[&quot;Pran of Albania.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 282,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 47,
			q4 = 219,
		},
		[&quot;The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 204,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 76,
		},
		[&quot;Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 16,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;Memories of My Life — being my personal, professional, and social recollections as woman and artist.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 552,
			q0 = 44,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 20,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;A Nation in Making.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 407,
			q0 = 7,
			q1 = 234,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 55,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orlando Furioso (Rose) v6 1828.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 274,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orthodoxy (1908).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 296,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 20,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 66,
			q4 = 9,
		},
		[&quot;Pentagon-Papers-Part IV. B. 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 59,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 25,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 28,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Order.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 5,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 5,
		},
		[&quot;Restless Earth.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 230,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 140,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Constitution of the United States of Brazil (1946).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 24,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 3,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 6,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Lewis - Babbitt.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 416,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 334,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 38,
			q4 = 34,
		},
		[&quot;The collected works of Henrik Ibsen (Heinemann Volume 4).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 326,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 213,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 93,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;Hoyle's Standard Games (1927, IA hoylesstandardga0000hoyl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 254,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 30,
			q2 = 3,
			q3 = 37,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Brandes - Poland, a Study of the Land, People, and Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 328,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 143,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 308,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 63,
			q4 = 56,
		},
		[&quot;Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 256,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 65,
			q4 = 181,
		},
		[&quot;The Best Continental Short Stories of 1923–1924.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 472,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 35,
			q4 = 424,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>ji1yqnrdrh274hf3s1jkr7fxicjnae4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131740</id>
      <parentid>15131595</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:05:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15131740</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="6762" sha1="7hmpexqz039quomc5v9fn3a57qsobt5" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	total = {
		count = 13323,
		q0 = 840,
		q1 = 1180,
		q2 = 186,
		q3 = 3994,
		q4 = 2100,
	},
	indexes = {
		[&quot;Early western travels, 1748-1846 (1907 Volume 2).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 346,
			q0 = 21,
			q1 = 70,
			q2 = 26,
			q3 = 211,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Kabumpo in Oz.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 331,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 18,
			q2 = 81,
			q3 = 113,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The Philippine Islands, 1493-1803 (Volume 11).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 95,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Works of Jules Verne - Parke - Vol 3.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 414,
			q0 = 25,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 83,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Brinkley - China - Volume 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 310,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 52,
		},
		[&quot;The Works of H G Wells Volume 11.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 546,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 277,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The National geographic magazine (IA nationalgeograph21890nati).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 434,
			q0 = 69,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 13,
			q3 = 94,
			q4 = 8,
		},
		[&quot;The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 460,
			q0 = 18,
			q1 = 26,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 18,
			q4 = 35,
		},
		[&quot;Horace (IA horacetheo00martrich).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 224,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 31,
			q4 = 32,
		},
		[&quot;CTRL0000034613 - Deposition of Roger Stone, (Dec. 17, 2021).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 32,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 8,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;The Orange Fairy Book.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 402,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 79,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Sacred Books of the East - Volume 6.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 400,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 47,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 228,
			q4 = 105,
		},
		[&quot;My Airships.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 348,
			q0 = 65,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 272,
			q4 = 11,
		},
		[&quot;The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 329,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 274,
			q4 = 33,
		},
		[&quot;Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 28,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 25,
		},
		[&quot;Do We Agree? (1928).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 60,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Pushkin - Boris Godunov (Kegan Paul, 1918).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 128,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Charles Dickens (a Critical Study) by George Gissing, 1898.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 48,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 216,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 44,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;Iracéma, the honey-lips (1886).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 268,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 206,
			q0 = 31,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 24,
			q3 = 150,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 44,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 102,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Pirates of Venus.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 23,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 43,
		},
		[&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 146,
			q0 = 17,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;Helen Keller - The Story of My Life.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 502,
			q0 = 38,
			q1 = 111,
			q2 = 17,
			q3 = 33,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;With Sa'di in the Garden, or The Book of Love (1888).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 232,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 3,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Alice Lauder.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 276,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 239,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;The Emperor Jones (IA emperorjones00onei).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 70,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 42,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Floor games (IA floorgames00well).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 124,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 101,
		},
		[&quot;Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 356,
			q0 = 26,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 330,
		},
		[&quot;Pran of Albania.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 282,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 46,
			q4 = 220,
		},
		[&quot;The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 204,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 76,
		},
		[&quot;Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 16,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;Memories of My Life — being my personal, professional, and social recollections as woman and artist.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 552,
			q0 = 44,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 20,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;A Nation in Making.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 407,
			q0 = 7,
			q1 = 234,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 55,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orlando Furioso (Rose) v6 1828.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 274,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orthodoxy (1908).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 296,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 20,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 66,
			q4 = 9,
		},
		[&quot;Pentagon-Papers-Part IV. B. 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 59,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 25,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 28,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Order.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 5,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 5,
		},
		[&quot;Restless Earth.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 230,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 140,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Constitution of the United States of Brazil (1946).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 24,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 3,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 6,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Lewis - Babbitt.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 416,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 334,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 38,
			q4 = 34,
		},
		[&quot;The collected works of Henrik Ibsen (Heinemann Volume 4).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 326,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 213,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 93,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;Hoyle's Standard Games (1927, IA hoylesstandardga0000hoyl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 254,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 30,
			q2 = 3,
			q3 = 37,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Brandes - Poland, a Study of the Land, People, and Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 328,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 143,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 308,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 63,
			q4 = 56,
		},
		[&quot;Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 256,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 65,
			q4 = 181,
		},
		[&quot;The Best Continental Short Stories of 1923–1924.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 472,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 35,
			q4 = 424,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>7hmpexqz039quomc5v9fn3a57qsobt5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132233</id>
      <parentid>15131740</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:05:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15132233</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="6762" sha1="7vvase72s6a0oxn44qf3ljof6b4tr3k" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	total = {
		count = 13323,
		q0 = 840,
		q1 = 1180,
		q2 = 187,
		q3 = 4007,
		q4 = 2102,
	},
	indexes = {
		[&quot;Early western travels, 1748-1846 (1907 Volume 2).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 346,
			q0 = 21,
			q1 = 70,
			q2 = 26,
			q3 = 211,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Kabumpo in Oz.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 331,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 18,
			q2 = 81,
			q3 = 113,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The Philippine Islands, 1493-1803 (Volume 11).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 95,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Works of Jules Verne - Parke - Vol 3.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 414,
			q0 = 25,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 83,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Brinkley - China - Volume 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 310,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 52,
		},
		[&quot;The Works of H G Wells Volume 11.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 546,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 277,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The National geographic magazine (IA nationalgeograph21890nati).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 434,
			q0 = 69,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 13,
			q3 = 94,
			q4 = 8,
		},
		[&quot;The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 460,
			q0 = 18,
			q1 = 26,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 18,
			q4 = 35,
		},
		[&quot;Horace (IA horacetheo00martrich).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 224,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 31,
			q4 = 32,
		},
		[&quot;CTRL0000034613 - Deposition of Roger Stone, (Dec. 17, 2021).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 32,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 8,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;The Orange Fairy Book.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 402,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 79,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Sacred Books of the East - Volume 6.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 400,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 47,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 228,
			q4 = 105,
		},
		[&quot;My Airships.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 348,
			q0 = 65,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 272,
			q4 = 11,
		},
		[&quot;The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 329,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 274,
			q4 = 33,
		},
		[&quot;Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 28,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 25,
		},
		[&quot;Do We Agree? (1928).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 60,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Pushkin - Boris Godunov (Kegan Paul, 1918).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 128,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Charles Dickens (a Critical Study) by George Gissing, 1898.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 48,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 216,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 55,
			q4 = 8,
		},
		[&quot;Iracéma, the honey-lips (1886).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 268,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 206,
			q0 = 31,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 24,
			q3 = 150,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 44,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 102,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Pirates of Venus.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 23,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 43,
		},
		[&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 146,
			q0 = 17,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;Helen Keller - The Story of My Life.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 502,
			q0 = 38,
			q1 = 111,
			q2 = 17,
			q3 = 33,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;With Sa'di in the Garden, or The Book of Love (1888).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 232,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 3,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Alice Lauder.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 276,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 239,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;The Emperor Jones (IA emperorjones00onei).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 70,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 42,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Floor games (IA floorgames00well).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 124,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 101,
		},
		[&quot;Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 356,
			q0 = 26,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 330,
		},
		[&quot;Pran of Albania.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 282,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 221,
		},
		[&quot;The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 204,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 76,
		},
		[&quot;Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 16,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;Memories of My Life — being my personal, professional, and social recollections as woman and artist.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 552,
			q0 = 44,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 20,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;A Nation in Making.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 407,
			q0 = 7,
			q1 = 234,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 55,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orlando Furioso (Rose) v6 1828.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 274,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orthodoxy (1908).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 296,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 20,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 66,
			q4 = 9,
		},
		[&quot;Pentagon-Papers-Part IV. B. 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 59,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 25,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 28,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Order.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 5,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 5,
		},
		[&quot;Restless Earth.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 230,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 140,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Constitution of the United States of Brazil (1946).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 24,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 3,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 6,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Lewis - Babbitt.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 416,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 334,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 38,
			q4 = 34,
		},
		[&quot;The collected works of Henrik Ibsen (Heinemann Volume 4).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 326,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 213,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 93,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;Hoyle's Standard Games (1927, IA hoylesstandardga0000hoyl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 254,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 30,
			q2 = 3,
			q3 = 37,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Brandes - Poland, a Study of the Land, People, and Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 328,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 143,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 308,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 66,
			q4 = 56,
		},
		[&quot;Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 256,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 65,
			q4 = 181,
		},
		[&quot;The Best Continental Short Stories of 1923–1924.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 472,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 35,
			q4 = 424,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>7vvase72s6a0oxn44qf3ljof6b4tr3k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132462</id>
      <parentid>15132233</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:05:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15132462</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="6763" sha1="qe2wwagzeg0mu8ypz2fgu89ecuwxmxi" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	total = {
		count = 13323,
		q0 = 840,
		q1 = 1185,
		q2 = 186,
		q3 = 4017,
		q4 = 2114,
	},
	indexes = {
		[&quot;Early western travels, 1748-1846 (1907 Volume 2).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 346,
			q0 = 21,
			q1 = 70,
			q2 = 26,
			q3 = 211,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Kabumpo in Oz.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 331,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 18,
			q2 = 81,
			q3 = 113,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The Philippine Islands, 1493-1803 (Volume 11).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 95,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Works of Jules Verne - Parke - Vol 3.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 414,
			q0 = 25,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 83,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Brinkley - China - Volume 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 310,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 52,
		},
		[&quot;The Works of H G Wells Volume 11.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 546,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 277,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The National geographic magazine (IA nationalgeograph21890nati).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 434,
			q0 = 69,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 13,
			q3 = 94,
			q4 = 8,
		},
		[&quot;The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 460,
			q0 = 18,
			q1 = 26,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 18,
			q4 = 35,
		},
		[&quot;Horace (IA horacetheo00martrich).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 224,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 31,
			q4 = 32,
		},
		[&quot;CTRL0000034613 - Deposition of Roger Stone, (Dec. 17, 2021).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 32,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 8,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;The Orange Fairy Book.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 402,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 79,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Sacred Books of the East - Volume 6.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 400,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 47,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 228,
			q4 = 105,
		},
		[&quot;My Airships.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 348,
			q0 = 65,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 272,
			q4 = 11,
		},
		[&quot;The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 329,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 274,
			q4 = 33,
		},
		[&quot;Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 28,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 25,
		},
		[&quot;Do We Agree? (1928).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 60,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Pushkin - Boris Godunov (Kegan Paul, 1918).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 128,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Charles Dickens (a Critical Study) by George Gissing, 1898.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 48,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 216,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 63,
			q4 = 14,
		},
		[&quot;Iracéma, the honey-lips (1886).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 268,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 206,
			q0 = 31,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 24,
			q3 = 150,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 44,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 102,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Pirates of Venus.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 29,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 43,
		},
		[&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 146,
			q0 = 17,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 54,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;Helen Keller - The Story of My Life.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 502,
			q0 = 38,
			q1 = 111,
			q2 = 17,
			q3 = 33,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;With Sa'di in the Garden, or The Book of Love (1888).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 232,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 3,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Alice Lauder.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 276,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 239,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;The Emperor Jones (IA emperorjones00onei).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 70,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 42,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Floor games (IA floorgames00well).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 124,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 101,
		},
		[&quot;Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 356,
			q0 = 26,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 330,
		},
		[&quot;Pran of Albania.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 282,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 221,
		},
		[&quot;The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 204,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 76,
		},
		[&quot;Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 16,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;Memories of My Life — being my personal, professional, and social recollections as woman and artist.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 552,
			q0 = 44,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 20,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;A Nation in Making.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 407,
			q0 = 7,
			q1 = 234,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 55,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orlando Furioso (Rose) v6 1828.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 274,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orthodoxy (1908).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 296,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 20,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 66,
			q4 = 9,
		},
		[&quot;Pentagon-Papers-Part IV. B. 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 59,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 25,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 28,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Order.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 5,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 5,
		},
		[&quot;Restless Earth.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 230,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 140,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Constitution of the United States of Brazil (1946).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 24,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 3,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 6,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Lewis - Babbitt.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 416,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 334,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 38,
			q4 = 34,
		},
		[&quot;The collected works of Henrik Ibsen (Heinemann Volume 4).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 326,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 213,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 93,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;Hoyle's Standard Games (1927, IA hoylesstandardga0000hoyl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 254,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 30,
			q2 = 3,
			q3 = 37,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Brandes - Poland, a Study of the Land, People, and Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 328,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 143,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 308,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 64,
			q4 = 62,
		},
		[&quot;Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 256,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 65,
			q4 = 181,
		},
		[&quot;The Best Continental Short Stories of 1923–1924.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 472,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 35,
			q4 = 424,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>qe2wwagzeg0mu8ypz2fgu89ecuwxmxi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132583</id>
      <parentid>15132462</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:05:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15132583</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="6763" sha1="n2njlp6gwqxisw925uzgtkqak8ri8en" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	total = {
		count = 13323,
		q0 = 840,
		q1 = 1185,
		q2 = 186,
		q3 = 4023,
		q4 = 2114,
	},
	indexes = {
		[&quot;Early western travels, 1748-1846 (1907 Volume 2).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 346,
			q0 = 21,
			q1 = 70,
			q2 = 26,
			q3 = 211,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Kabumpo in Oz.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 331,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 18,
			q2 = 81,
			q3 = 113,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The Philippine Islands, 1493-1803 (Volume 11).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 95,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Works of Jules Verne - Parke - Vol 3.djvu&quot;] = {
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			q0 = 25,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 83,
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		[&quot;Brinkley - China - Volume 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 310,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 52,
		},
		[&quot;The Works of H G Wells Volume 11.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 546,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 277,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The National geographic magazine (IA nationalgeograph21890nati).pdf&quot;] = {
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			q0 = 69,
			q1 = 7,
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		[&quot;The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 460,
			q0 = 18,
			q1 = 26,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 18,
			q4 = 35,
		},
		[&quot;Horace (IA horacetheo00martrich).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 224,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 31,
			q4 = 32,
		},
		[&quot;CTRL0000034613 - Deposition of Roger Stone, (Dec. 17, 2021).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 32,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 8,
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		},
		[&quot;The Orange Fairy Book.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 402,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 79,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Sacred Books of the East - Volume 6.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 400,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 47,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 228,
			q4 = 105,
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		[&quot;My Airships.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 348,
			q0 = 65,
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			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 272,
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		[&quot;The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 329,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 274,
			q4 = 33,
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		[&quot;Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf&quot;] = {
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			q2 = 0,
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		[&quot;Do We Agree? (1928).pdf&quot;] = {
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			q3 = 0,
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		[&quot;Pushkin - Boris Godunov (Kegan Paul, 1918).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 128,
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			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 120,
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		[&quot;Charles Dickens (a Critical Study) by George Gissing, 1898.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 48,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 216,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 69,
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		[&quot;Iracéma, the honey-lips (1886).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 268,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 206,
			q0 = 31,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 24,
			q3 = 150,
			q4 = 1,
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		[&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 44,
			q4 = 12,
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		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 102,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Pirates of Venus.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 29,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 43,
		},
		[&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 146,
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			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 54,
			q4 = 10,
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		[&quot;Helen Keller - The Story of My Life.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 502,
			q0 = 38,
			q1 = 111,
			q2 = 17,
			q3 = 33,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;With Sa'di in the Garden, or The Book of Love (1888).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 232,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 3,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Alice Lauder.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 276,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 239,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;The Emperor Jones (IA emperorjones00onei).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 70,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 42,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Floor games (IA floorgames00well).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 124,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 101,
		},
		[&quot;Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 356,
			q0 = 26,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 330,
		},
		[&quot;Pran of Albania.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 282,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 221,
		},
		[&quot;The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 204,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 76,
		},
		[&quot;Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 16,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;Memories of My Life — being my personal, professional, and social recollections as woman and artist.djvu&quot;] = {
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			q0 = 44,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 20,
			q4 = 10,
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		[&quot;A Nation in Making.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 407,
			q0 = 7,
			q1 = 234,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 55,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orlando Furioso (Rose) v6 1828.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 274,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orthodoxy (1908).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 296,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 20,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 66,
			q4 = 9,
		},
		[&quot;Pentagon-Papers-Part IV. B. 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 59,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 25,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 28,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Order.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 5,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 5,
		},
		[&quot;Restless Earth.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 230,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 140,
			q4 = 4,
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		[&quot;Constitution of the United States of Brazil (1946).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 24,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 3,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 6,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Lewis - Babbitt.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 416,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 334,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 38,
			q4 = 34,
		},
		[&quot;The collected works of Henrik Ibsen (Heinemann Volume 4).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 326,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 213,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 93,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;Hoyle's Standard Games (1927, IA hoylesstandardga0000hoyl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 254,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 30,
			q2 = 3,
			q3 = 37,
			q4 = 4,
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		[&quot;Brandes - Poland, a Study of the Land, People, and Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
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			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 143,
			q4 = 18,
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		[&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 308,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 64,
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		[&quot;Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 256,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 65,
			q4 = 181,
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		[&quot;The Best Continental Short Stories of 1923–1924.djvu&quot;] = {
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			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
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			q4 = 424,
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}</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132804</id>
      <parentid>15132583</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:05:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15132804</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="6763" sha1="il5rmkwwgg8ve3gdiox9ojti1pqqx26" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	total = {
		count = 13323,
		q0 = 840,
		q1 = 1185,
		q2 = 186,
		q3 = 4022,
		q4 = 2115,
	},
	indexes = {
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			count = 346,
			q0 = 21,
			q1 = 70,
			q2 = 26,
			q3 = 211,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Kabumpo in Oz.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 331,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 18,
			q2 = 81,
			q3 = 113,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The Philippine Islands, 1493-1803 (Volume 11).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 95,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Works of Jules Verne - Parke - Vol 3.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 414,
			q0 = 25,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 83,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Brinkley - China - Volume 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 310,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 52,
		},
		[&quot;The Works of H G Wells Volume 11.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 546,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 277,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The National geographic magazine (IA nationalgeograph21890nati).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 434,
			q0 = 69,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 13,
			q3 = 94,
			q4 = 8,
		},
		[&quot;The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 460,
			q0 = 18,
			q1 = 26,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 18,
			q4 = 35,
		},
		[&quot;Horace (IA horacetheo00martrich).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 224,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 31,
			q4 = 32,
		},
		[&quot;CTRL0000034613 - Deposition of Roger Stone, (Dec. 17, 2021).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 32,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 8,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;The Orange Fairy Book.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 402,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 79,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Sacred Books of the East - Volume 6.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 400,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 47,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 228,
			q4 = 105,
		},
		[&quot;My Airships.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 348,
			q0 = 65,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 272,
			q4 = 11,
		},
		[&quot;The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 329,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 274,
			q4 = 33,
		},
		[&quot;Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 28,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 25,
		},
		[&quot;Do We Agree? (1928).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 60,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Pushkin - Boris Godunov (Kegan Paul, 1918).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 128,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Charles Dickens (a Critical Study) by George Gissing, 1898.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 48,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 216,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 69,
			q4 = 14,
		},
		[&quot;Iracéma, the honey-lips (1886).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 268,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 206,
			q0 = 31,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 24,
			q3 = 150,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 44,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 102,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Pirates of Venus.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 29,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 119,
			q4 = 44,
		},
		[&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 146,
			q0 = 17,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 54,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;Helen Keller - The Story of My Life.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 502,
			q0 = 38,
			q1 = 111,
			q2 = 17,
			q3 = 33,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;With Sa'di in the Garden, or The Book of Love (1888).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 232,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 3,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Alice Lauder.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 276,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 239,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;The Emperor Jones (IA emperorjones00onei).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 70,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 42,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Floor games (IA floorgames00well).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 124,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 101,
		},
		[&quot;Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 356,
			q0 = 26,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 330,
		},
		[&quot;Pran of Albania.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 282,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 221,
		},
		[&quot;The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 204,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 76,
		},
		[&quot;Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 16,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;Memories of My Life — being my personal, professional, and social recollections as woman and artist.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 552,
			q0 = 44,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 20,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;A Nation in Making.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 407,
			q0 = 7,
			q1 = 234,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 55,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orlando Furioso (Rose) v6 1828.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 274,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orthodoxy (1908).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 296,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 20,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 66,
			q4 = 9,
		},
		[&quot;Pentagon-Papers-Part IV. B. 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 59,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 25,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 28,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Order.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 5,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 5,
		},
		[&quot;Restless Earth.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 230,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 140,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Constitution of the United States of Brazil (1946).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 24,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 3,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 6,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Lewis - Babbitt.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 416,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 334,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 38,
			q4 = 34,
		},
		[&quot;The collected works of Henrik Ibsen (Heinemann Volume 4).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 326,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 213,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 93,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;Hoyle's Standard Games (1927, IA hoylesstandardga0000hoyl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 254,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 30,
			q2 = 3,
			q3 = 37,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Brandes - Poland, a Study of the Land, People, and Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 328,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 143,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 308,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 64,
			q4 = 62,
		},
		[&quot;Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 256,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 65,
			q4 = 181,
		},
		[&quot;The Best Continental Short Stories of 1923–1924.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 472,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 35,
			q4 = 424,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>il5rmkwwgg8ve3gdiox9ojti1pqqx26</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133134</id>
      <parentid>15132804</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15133134</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="6763" sha1="st1jaxdzu01h2r4havcgi6clccbquha" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	total = {
		count = 13323,
		q0 = 840,
		q1 = 1185,
		q2 = 186,
		q3 = 4025,
		q4 = 2115,
	},
	indexes = {
		[&quot;Early western travels, 1748-1846 (1907 Volume 2).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 346,
			q0 = 21,
			q1 = 70,
			q2 = 26,
			q3 = 211,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Kabumpo in Oz.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 331,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 18,
			q2 = 81,
			q3 = 113,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The Philippine Islands, 1493-1803 (Volume 11).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 95,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Works of Jules Verne - Parke - Vol 3.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 414,
			q0 = 25,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 83,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Brinkley - China - Volume 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 310,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 52,
		},
		[&quot;The Works of H G Wells Volume 11.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 546,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 277,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The National geographic magazine (IA nationalgeograph21890nati).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 434,
			q0 = 69,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 13,
			q3 = 94,
			q4 = 8,
		},
		[&quot;The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 460,
			q0 = 18,
			q1 = 26,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 18,
			q4 = 35,
		},
		[&quot;Horace (IA horacetheo00martrich).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 224,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 31,
			q4 = 32,
		},
		[&quot;CTRL0000034613 - Deposition of Roger Stone, (Dec. 17, 2021).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 32,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 8,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;The Orange Fairy Book.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 402,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 79,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Sacred Books of the East - Volume 6.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 400,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 47,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 228,
			q4 = 105,
		},
		[&quot;My Airships.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 348,
			q0 = 65,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 272,
			q4 = 11,
		},
		[&quot;The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 329,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 274,
			q4 = 33,
		},
		[&quot;Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 28,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 25,
		},
		[&quot;Do We Agree? (1928).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 60,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Pushkin - Boris Godunov (Kegan Paul, 1918).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 128,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Charles Dickens (a Critical Study) by George Gissing, 1898.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 48,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 216,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 72,
			q4 = 14,
		},
		[&quot;Iracéma, the honey-lips (1886).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 268,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 206,
			q0 = 31,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 24,
			q3 = 150,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 44,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 102,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Pirates of Venus.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 29,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 119,
			q4 = 44,
		},
		[&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 146,
			q0 = 17,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 54,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;Helen Keller - The Story of My Life.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 502,
			q0 = 38,
			q1 = 111,
			q2 = 17,
			q3 = 33,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;With Sa'di in the Garden, or The Book of Love (1888).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 232,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 3,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Alice Lauder.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 276,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 239,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;The Emperor Jones (IA emperorjones00onei).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 70,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 42,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Floor games (IA floorgames00well).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 124,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 101,
		},
		[&quot;Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 356,
			q0 = 26,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 330,
		},
		[&quot;Pran of Albania.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 282,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 221,
		},
		[&quot;The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 204,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 76,
		},
		[&quot;Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 16,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;Memories of My Life — being my personal, professional, and social recollections as woman and artist.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 552,
			q0 = 44,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 20,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;A Nation in Making.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 407,
			q0 = 7,
			q1 = 234,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 55,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orlando Furioso (Rose) v6 1828.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 274,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orthodoxy (1908).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 296,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 20,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 66,
			q4 = 9,
		},
		[&quot;Pentagon-Papers-Part IV. B. 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 59,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 25,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 28,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Order.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 5,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 5,
		},
		[&quot;Restless Earth.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 230,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 140,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Constitution of the United States of Brazil (1946).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 24,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 3,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 6,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Lewis - Babbitt.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 416,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 334,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 38,
			q4 = 34,
		},
		[&quot;The collected works of Henrik Ibsen (Heinemann Volume 4).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 326,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 213,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 93,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;Hoyle's Standard Games (1927, IA hoylesstandardga0000hoyl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 254,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 30,
			q2 = 3,
			q3 = 37,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Brandes - Poland, a Study of the Land, People, and Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 328,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 143,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 308,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 64,
			q4 = 62,
		},
		[&quot;Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 256,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 65,
			q4 = 181,
		},
		[&quot;The Best Continental Short Stories of 1923–1924.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 472,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 35,
			q4 = 424,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>st1jaxdzu01h2r4havcgi6clccbquha</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133480</id>
      <parentid>15133134</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T06:05:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15133480</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="6763" sha1="epqb1xiz980r56zfw2r31wiqe6qga8b" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	total = {
		count = 13323,
		q0 = 840,
		q1 = 1185,
		q2 = 186,
		q3 = 4038,
		q4 = 2118,
	},
	indexes = {
		[&quot;Early western travels, 1748-1846 (1907 Volume 2).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 346,
			q0 = 21,
			q1 = 70,
			q2 = 26,
			q3 = 211,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Kabumpo in Oz.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 331,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 18,
			q2 = 81,
			q3 = 113,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The Philippine Islands, 1493-1803 (Volume 11).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 95,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Works of Jules Verne - Parke - Vol 3.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 414,
			q0 = 25,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 83,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Brinkley - China - Volume 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 310,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 52,
		},
		[&quot;The Works of H G Wells Volume 11.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 546,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 277,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The National geographic magazine (IA nationalgeograph21890nati).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 434,
			q0 = 69,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 13,
			q3 = 94,
			q4 = 8,
		},
		[&quot;The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 460,
			q0 = 18,
			q1 = 26,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 18,
			q4 = 35,
		},
		[&quot;Horace (IA horacetheo00martrich).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 224,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 31,
			q4 = 32,
		},
		[&quot;CTRL0000034613 - Deposition of Roger Stone, (Dec. 17, 2021).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 32,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 8,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;The Orange Fairy Book.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 402,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 89,
			q4 = 47,
		},
		[&quot;Sacred Books of the East - Volume 6.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 400,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 47,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 228,
			q4 = 105,
		},
		[&quot;My Airships.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 348,
			q0 = 65,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 272,
			q4 = 11,
		},
		[&quot;The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 329,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 274,
			q4 = 33,
		},
		[&quot;Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 28,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 25,
		},
		[&quot;Do We Agree? (1928).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 60,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Pushkin - Boris Godunov (Kegan Paul, 1918).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 128,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Charles Dickens (a Critical Study) by George Gissing, 1898.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 48,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 216,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 76,
			q4 = 14,
		},
		[&quot;Iracéma, the honey-lips (1886).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 268,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 206,
			q0 = 31,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 24,
			q3 = 150,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 43,
			q4 = 14,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 102,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Pirates of Venus.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 29,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 119,
			q4 = 44,
		},
		[&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 146,
			q0 = 17,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 54,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;Helen Keller - The Story of My Life.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 502,
			q0 = 38,
			q1 = 111,
			q2 = 17,
			q3 = 33,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;With Sa'di in the Garden, or The Book of Love (1888).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 232,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 3,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Alice Lauder.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 276,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 239,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;The Emperor Jones (IA emperorjones00onei).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 70,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 42,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Floor games (IA floorgames00well).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 124,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 101,
		},
		[&quot;Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 356,
			q0 = 26,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 330,
		},
		[&quot;Pran of Albania.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 282,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 221,
		},
		[&quot;The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 204,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 76,
		},
		[&quot;Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 16,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;Memories of My Life — being my personal, professional, and social recollections as woman and artist.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 552,
			q0 = 44,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 20,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;A Nation in Making.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 407,
			q0 = 7,
			q1 = 234,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 55,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orlando Furioso (Rose) v6 1828.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 274,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orthodoxy (1908).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 296,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 20,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 66,
			q4 = 9,
		},
		[&quot;Pentagon-Papers-Part IV. B. 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 59,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 25,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 28,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Order.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 5,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 5,
		},
		[&quot;Restless Earth.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 230,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 140,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Constitution of the United States of Brazil (1946).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 24,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 3,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 6,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Lewis - Babbitt.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 416,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 334,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 38,
			q4 = 34,
		},
		[&quot;The collected works of Henrik Ibsen (Heinemann Volume 4).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 326,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 213,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 93,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;Hoyle's Standard Games (1927, IA hoylesstandardga0000hoyl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 254,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 30,
			q2 = 3,
			q3 = 37,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Brandes - Poland, a Study of the Land, People, and Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 328,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 143,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 308,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 64,
			q4 = 62,
		},
		[&quot;Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 256,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 65,
			q4 = 181,
		},
		[&quot;The Best Continental Short Stories of 1923–1924.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 472,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 35,
			q4 = 424,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>epqb1xiz980r56zfw2r31wiqe6qga8b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133634</id>
      <parentid>15133480</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:05:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15133634</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="6762" sha1="8nw6bsv6dcgelhj0231adpnrhfpn14o" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	total = {
		count = 13323,
		q0 = 840,
		q1 = 1185,
		q2 = 186,
		q3 = 4039,
		q4 = 2119,
	},
	indexes = {
		[&quot;Early western travels, 1748-1846 (1907 Volume 2).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 346,
			q0 = 21,
			q1 = 70,
			q2 = 26,
			q3 = 211,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Kabumpo in Oz.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 331,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 18,
			q2 = 81,
			q3 = 113,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The Philippine Islands, 1493-1803 (Volume 11).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 95,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Works of Jules Verne - Parke - Vol 3.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 414,
			q0 = 25,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 83,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Brinkley - China - Volume 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 310,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 52,
		},
		[&quot;The Works of H G Wells Volume 11.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 546,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 277,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The National geographic magazine (IA nationalgeograph21890nati).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 434,
			q0 = 69,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 13,
			q3 = 94,
			q4 = 8,
		},
		[&quot;The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 460,
			q0 = 18,
			q1 = 26,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 18,
			q4 = 35,
		},
		[&quot;Horace (IA horacetheo00martrich).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 224,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 31,
			q4 = 32,
		},
		[&quot;CTRL0000034613 - Deposition of Roger Stone, (Dec. 17, 2021).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 32,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 8,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;The Orange Fairy Book.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 402,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 89,
			q4 = 47,
		},
		[&quot;Sacred Books of the East - Volume 6.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 400,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 47,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 228,
			q4 = 105,
		},
		[&quot;My Airships.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 348,
			q0 = 65,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 272,
			q4 = 11,
		},
		[&quot;The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 329,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 274,
			q4 = 33,
		},
		[&quot;Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 28,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 25,
		},
		[&quot;Do We Agree? (1928).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 60,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Pushkin - Boris Godunov (Kegan Paul, 1918).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 128,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Charles Dickens (a Critical Study) by George Gissing, 1898.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 48,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 216,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 78,
			q4 = 14,
		},
		[&quot;Iracéma, the honey-lips (1886).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 268,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 206,
			q0 = 31,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 24,
			q3 = 150,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 43,
			q4 = 14,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 102,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 50,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Pirates of Venus.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 29,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 119,
			q4 = 44,
		},
		[&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 146,
			q0 = 17,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 54,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;Helen Keller - The Story of My Life.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 502,
			q0 = 38,
			q1 = 111,
			q2 = 17,
			q3 = 33,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;With Sa'di in the Garden, or The Book of Love (1888).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 232,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 3,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Alice Lauder.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 276,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 239,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;The Emperor Jones (IA emperorjones00onei).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 70,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 42,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Floor games (IA floorgames00well).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 124,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 101,
		},
		[&quot;Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 356,
			q0 = 26,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 330,
		},
		[&quot;Pran of Albania.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 282,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 221,
		},
		[&quot;The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 204,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 9,
			q4 = 77,
		},
		[&quot;Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 16,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;Memories of My Life — being my personal, professional, and social recollections as woman and artist.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 552,
			q0 = 44,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 20,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;A Nation in Making.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 407,
			q0 = 7,
			q1 = 234,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 55,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orlando Furioso (Rose) v6 1828.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 274,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orthodoxy (1908).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 296,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 20,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 66,
			q4 = 9,
		},
		[&quot;Pentagon-Papers-Part IV. B. 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 59,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 25,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 28,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Order.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 5,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 5,
		},
		[&quot;Restless Earth.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 230,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 140,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Constitution of the United States of Brazil (1946).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 24,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 3,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 6,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Lewis - Babbitt.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 416,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 334,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 38,
			q4 = 34,
		},
		[&quot;The collected works of Henrik Ibsen (Heinemann Volume 4).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 326,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 213,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 93,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;Hoyle's Standard Games (1927, IA hoylesstandardga0000hoyl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 254,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 30,
			q2 = 3,
			q3 = 37,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Brandes - Poland, a Study of the Land, People, and Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 328,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 143,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 308,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 64,
			q4 = 62,
		},
		[&quot;Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 256,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 65,
			q4 = 181,
		},
		[&quot;The Best Continental Short Stories of 1923–1924.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 472,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 35,
			q4 = 424,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>8nw6bsv6dcgelhj0231adpnrhfpn14o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133786</id>
      <parentid>15133634</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:05:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15133786</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="6762" sha1="g1a7ftpxrdixd4meik4wmj76ftq1pfy" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	total = {
		count = 13323,
		q0 = 840,
		q1 = 1185,
		q2 = 186,
		q3 = 4042,
		q4 = 2119,
	},
	indexes = {
		[&quot;Early western travels, 1748-1846 (1907 Volume 2).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 346,
			q0 = 21,
			q1 = 70,
			q2 = 26,
			q3 = 211,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Kabumpo in Oz.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 331,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 18,
			q2 = 81,
			q3 = 113,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The Philippine Islands, 1493-1803 (Volume 11).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 95,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Works of Jules Verne - Parke - Vol 3.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 414,
			q0 = 25,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 83,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Brinkley - China - Volume 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 310,
			q0 = 27,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 52,
		},
		[&quot;The Works of H G Wells Volume 11.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 546,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 277,
			q4 = 26,
		},
		[&quot;The National geographic magazine (IA nationalgeograph21890nati).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 434,
			q0 = 69,
			q1 = 7,
			q2 = 13,
			q3 = 94,
			q4 = 8,
		},
		[&quot;The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 460,
			q0 = 18,
			q1 = 26,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 18,
			q4 = 35,
		},
		[&quot;Horace (IA horacetheo00martrich).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 224,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 31,
			q4 = 32,
		},
		[&quot;CTRL0000034613 - Deposition of Roger Stone, (Dec. 17, 2021).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 32,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 8,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;The Orange Fairy Book.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 402,
			q0 = 30,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 89,
			q4 = 47,
		},
		[&quot;Sacred Books of the East - Volume 6.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 400,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 47,
			q2 = 4,
			q3 = 228,
			q4 = 105,
		},
		[&quot;My Airships.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 348,
			q0 = 65,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 272,
			q4 = 11,
		},
		[&quot;The Black Camel (IA blackcamel0000earl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 329,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 274,
			q4 = 33,
		},
		[&quot;Historical paintings of the Slavic nations by Alfons Mucha (1921).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 28,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 25,
		},
		[&quot;Do We Agree? (1928).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 60,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 46,
		},
		[&quot;Pushkin - Boris Godunov (Kegan Paul, 1918).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 128,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 120,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Charles Dickens (a Critical Study) by George Gissing, 1898.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 332,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 48,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 216,
			q0 = 11,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 78,
			q4 = 14,
		},
		[&quot;Iracéma, the honey-lips (1886).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 268,
			q0 = 14,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 206,
			q0 = 31,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 24,
			q3 = 150,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 43,
			q4 = 14,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 102,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 53,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Pirates of Venus.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 330,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 29,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 119,
			q4 = 44,
		},
		[&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 146,
			q0 = 17,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 54,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;Helen Keller - The Story of My Life.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 502,
			q0 = 38,
			q1 = 111,
			q2 = 17,
			q3 = 33,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;With Sa'di in the Garden, or The Book of Love (1888).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 232,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 3,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Alice Lauder.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 276,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 239,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;The Emperor Jones (IA emperorjones00onei).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 70,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 42,
			q4 = 12,
		},
		[&quot;Floor games (IA floorgames00well).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 124,
			q0 = 23,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 101,
		},
		[&quot;Heidi (IA heidi00spyr 7).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 356,
			q0 = 26,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 330,
		},
		[&quot;Pran of Albania.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 282,
			q0 = 16,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 45,
			q4 = 221,
		},
		[&quot;The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 204,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 9,
			q4 = 77,
		},
		[&quot;Mark Twain's Memory Builder (Twain).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 16,
			q0 = 3,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 10,
			q4 = 3,
		},
		[&quot;Memories of My Life — being my personal, professional, and social recollections as woman and artist.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 552,
			q0 = 44,
			q1 = 2,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 20,
			q4 = 10,
		},
		[&quot;A Nation in Making.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 407,
			q0 = 7,
			q1 = 234,
			q2 = 2,
			q3 = 55,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orlando Furioso (Rose) v6 1828.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 274,
			q0 = 20,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 184,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Orthodoxy (1908).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 296,
			q0 = 12,
			q1 = 20,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 66,
			q4 = 9,
		},
		[&quot;Pentagon-Papers-Part IV. B. 2.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 59,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 25,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 28,
			q4 = 2,
		},
		[&quot;Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Order.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 5,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 0,
			q4 = 5,
		},
		[&quot;Restless Earth.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 230,
			q0 = 4,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 140,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Constitution of the United States of Brazil (1946).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 24,
			q0 = 0,
			q1 = 3,
			q2 = 1,
			q3 = 6,
			q4 = 1,
		},
		[&quot;Lewis - Babbitt.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 416,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 334,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 38,
			q4 = 34,
		},
		[&quot;The collected works of Henrik Ibsen (Heinemann Volume 4).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 326,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 213,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 93,
			q4 = 7,
		},
		[&quot;Hoyle's Standard Games (1927, IA hoylesstandardga0000hoyl).djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 254,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 30,
			q2 = 3,
			q3 = 37,
			q4 = 4,
		},
		[&quot;Brandes - Poland, a Study of the Land, People, and Literature.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 328,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 1,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 143,
			q4 = 18,
		},
		[&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 308,
			q0 = 9,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 64,
			q4 = 62,
		},
		[&quot;Korean folk tales- imps, ghosts and fairies (IA koreanfolktalesi00impaiala).pdf&quot;] = {
			count = 256,
			q0 = 10,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 65,
			q4 = 181,
		},
		[&quot;The Best Continental Short Stories of 1923–1924.djvu&quot;] = {
			count = 472,
			q0 = 13,
			q1 = 0,
			q2 = 0,
			q3 = 35,
			q4 = 424,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>g1a7ftpxrdixd4meik4wmj76ftq1pfy</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Module:Monthly Challenge daily stats/data/2025-06</title>
    <ns>828</ns>
    <id>4833022</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131394</id>
      <parentid>15131002</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:05:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current daily statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15131394</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="1569" sha1="mzjhmx96ak9hlh05u47xdoz7m40l91m" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated daily data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	days = {
		[0] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 748,
			q1 = 1017,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3735,
			q4 = 1405,
		},
		[1] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1077,
			q2 = 174,
			q3 = 3832,
			q4 = 1492,
		},
		[2] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1105,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3814,
			q4 = 1572,
		},
		[3] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1104,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3815,
			q4 = 1630,
		},
		[4] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1102,
			q2 = 175,
			q3 = 3851,
			q4 = 1680,
		},
		[5] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 172,
			q3 = 3899,
			q4 = 1697,
		},
		[6] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3912,
			q4 = 1745,
		},
		[7] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1151,
			q2 = 170,
			q3 = 3911,
			q4 = 1812,
		},
		[8] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 838,
			q1 = 1152,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3956,
			q4 = 1896,
		},
		[9] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1172,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3957,
			q4 = 1928,
		},
		[10] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1192,
			q2 = 189,
			q3 = 3961,
			q4 = 1974,
		},
		[11] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1187,
			q2 = 188,
			q3 = 3954,
			q4 = 2031,
		},
		[12] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3980,
			q4 = 2061,
		},
		[13] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3985,
			q4 = 2093,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>mzjhmx96ak9hlh05u47xdoz7m40l91m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131596</id>
      <parentid>15131394</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:05:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current daily statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15131596</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="1569" sha1="49j9b8kq2a6rkocq1hw5w1q4kgsu9sa" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated daily data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	days = {
		[0] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 748,
			q1 = 1017,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3735,
			q4 = 1405,
		},
		[1] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1077,
			q2 = 174,
			q3 = 3832,
			q4 = 1492,
		},
		[2] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1105,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3814,
			q4 = 1572,
		},
		[3] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1104,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3815,
			q4 = 1630,
		},
		[4] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1102,
			q2 = 175,
			q3 = 3851,
			q4 = 1680,
		},
		[5] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 172,
			q3 = 3899,
			q4 = 1697,
		},
		[6] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3912,
			q4 = 1745,
		},
		[7] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1151,
			q2 = 170,
			q3 = 3911,
			q4 = 1812,
		},
		[8] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 838,
			q1 = 1152,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3956,
			q4 = 1896,
		},
		[9] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1172,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3957,
			q4 = 1928,
		},
		[10] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1192,
			q2 = 189,
			q3 = 3961,
			q4 = 1974,
		},
		[11] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1187,
			q2 = 188,
			q3 = 3954,
			q4 = 2031,
		},
		[12] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3980,
			q4 = 2061,
		},
		[13] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3991,
			q4 = 2098,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>49j9b8kq2a6rkocq1hw5w1q4kgsu9sa</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131741</id>
      <parentid>15131596</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:05:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current daily statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15131741</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="1569" sha1="msau2p8e4tg0d9xj2jntx4vitiwitlj" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated daily data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	days = {
		[0] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 748,
			q1 = 1017,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3735,
			q4 = 1405,
		},
		[1] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1077,
			q2 = 174,
			q3 = 3832,
			q4 = 1492,
		},
		[2] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1105,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3814,
			q4 = 1572,
		},
		[3] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1104,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3815,
			q4 = 1630,
		},
		[4] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1102,
			q2 = 175,
			q3 = 3851,
			q4 = 1680,
		},
		[5] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 172,
			q3 = 3899,
			q4 = 1697,
		},
		[6] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3912,
			q4 = 1745,
		},
		[7] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1151,
			q2 = 170,
			q3 = 3911,
			q4 = 1812,
		},
		[8] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 838,
			q1 = 1152,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3956,
			q4 = 1896,
		},
		[9] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1172,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3957,
			q4 = 1928,
		},
		[10] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1192,
			q2 = 189,
			q3 = 3961,
			q4 = 1974,
		},
		[11] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1187,
			q2 = 188,
			q3 = 3954,
			q4 = 2031,
		},
		[12] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3980,
			q4 = 2061,
		},
		[13] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3994,
			q4 = 2100,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>msau2p8e4tg0d9xj2jntx4vitiwitlj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132234</id>
      <parentid>15131741</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:05:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current daily statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15132234</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="1569" sha1="hdl5ou8jvomvetyujzneu0d7s0ifot9" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated daily data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	days = {
		[0] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 748,
			q1 = 1017,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3735,
			q4 = 1405,
		},
		[1] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1077,
			q2 = 174,
			q3 = 3832,
			q4 = 1492,
		},
		[2] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1105,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3814,
			q4 = 1572,
		},
		[3] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1104,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3815,
			q4 = 1630,
		},
		[4] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1102,
			q2 = 175,
			q3 = 3851,
			q4 = 1680,
		},
		[5] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 172,
			q3 = 3899,
			q4 = 1697,
		},
		[6] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3912,
			q4 = 1745,
		},
		[7] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1151,
			q2 = 170,
			q3 = 3911,
			q4 = 1812,
		},
		[8] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 838,
			q1 = 1152,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3956,
			q4 = 1896,
		},
		[9] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1172,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3957,
			q4 = 1928,
		},
		[10] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1192,
			q2 = 189,
			q3 = 3961,
			q4 = 1974,
		},
		[11] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1187,
			q2 = 188,
			q3 = 3954,
			q4 = 2031,
		},
		[12] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3980,
			q4 = 2061,
		},
		[13] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 4007,
			q4 = 2102,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>hdl5ou8jvomvetyujzneu0d7s0ifot9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132463</id>
      <parentid>15132234</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:05:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current daily statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15132463</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="1569" sha1="ssvqvswxllepddo2ohkwmkas7t4hx19" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated daily data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	days = {
		[0] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 748,
			q1 = 1017,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3735,
			q4 = 1405,
		},
		[1] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1077,
			q2 = 174,
			q3 = 3832,
			q4 = 1492,
		},
		[2] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1105,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3814,
			q4 = 1572,
		},
		[3] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1104,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3815,
			q4 = 1630,
		},
		[4] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1102,
			q2 = 175,
			q3 = 3851,
			q4 = 1680,
		},
		[5] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 172,
			q3 = 3899,
			q4 = 1697,
		},
		[6] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3912,
			q4 = 1745,
		},
		[7] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1151,
			q2 = 170,
			q3 = 3911,
			q4 = 1812,
		},
		[8] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 838,
			q1 = 1152,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3956,
			q4 = 1896,
		},
		[9] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1172,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3957,
			q4 = 1928,
		},
		[10] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1192,
			q2 = 189,
			q3 = 3961,
			q4 = 1974,
		},
		[11] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1187,
			q2 = 188,
			q3 = 3954,
			q4 = 2031,
		},
		[12] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3980,
			q4 = 2061,
		},
		[13] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4017,
			q4 = 2114,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>ssvqvswxllepddo2ohkwmkas7t4hx19</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132584</id>
      <parentid>15132463</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:05:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current daily statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15132584</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="1671" sha1="7rzad0e8x6vohjkqkl3luvrvm6kx5ol" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated daily data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	days = {
		[0] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 748,
			q1 = 1017,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3735,
			q4 = 1405,
		},
		[1] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1077,
			q2 = 174,
			q3 = 3832,
			q4 = 1492,
		},
		[2] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1105,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3814,
			q4 = 1572,
		},
		[3] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1104,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3815,
			q4 = 1630,
		},
		[4] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1102,
			q2 = 175,
			q3 = 3851,
			q4 = 1680,
		},
		[5] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 172,
			q3 = 3899,
			q4 = 1697,
		},
		[6] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3912,
			q4 = 1745,
		},
		[7] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1151,
			q2 = 170,
			q3 = 3911,
			q4 = 1812,
		},
		[8] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 838,
			q1 = 1152,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3956,
			q4 = 1896,
		},
		[9] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1172,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3957,
			q4 = 1928,
		},
		[10] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1192,
			q2 = 189,
			q3 = 3961,
			q4 = 1974,
		},
		[11] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1187,
			q2 = 188,
			q3 = 3954,
			q4 = 2031,
		},
		[12] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3980,
			q4 = 2061,
		},
		[13] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4023,
			q4 = 2114,
		},
		[14] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4023,
			q4 = 2114,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>7rzad0e8x6vohjkqkl3luvrvm6kx5ol</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132806</id>
      <parentid>15132584</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:05:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current daily statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15132806</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="1671" sha1="60wkajk29if1jqbvz8fquhd4g9fbgov" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated daily data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	days = {
		[0] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 748,
			q1 = 1017,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3735,
			q4 = 1405,
		},
		[1] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1077,
			q2 = 174,
			q3 = 3832,
			q4 = 1492,
		},
		[2] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1105,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3814,
			q4 = 1572,
		},
		[3] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1104,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3815,
			q4 = 1630,
		},
		[4] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1102,
			q2 = 175,
			q3 = 3851,
			q4 = 1680,
		},
		[5] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 172,
			q3 = 3899,
			q4 = 1697,
		},
		[6] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3912,
			q4 = 1745,
		},
		[7] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1151,
			q2 = 170,
			q3 = 3911,
			q4 = 1812,
		},
		[8] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 838,
			q1 = 1152,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3956,
			q4 = 1896,
		},
		[9] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1172,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3957,
			q4 = 1928,
		},
		[10] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1192,
			q2 = 189,
			q3 = 3961,
			q4 = 1974,
		},
		[11] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1187,
			q2 = 188,
			q3 = 3954,
			q4 = 2031,
		},
		[12] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3980,
			q4 = 2061,
		},
		[13] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4023,
			q4 = 2114,
		},
		[14] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4022,
			q4 = 2115,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>60wkajk29if1jqbvz8fquhd4g9fbgov</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133135</id>
      <parentid>15132806</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:05:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current daily statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15133135</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="1671" sha1="4a2hmw6t7q44v9cbsubcenqt8b18j4o" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated daily data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	days = {
		[0] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 748,
			q1 = 1017,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3735,
			q4 = 1405,
		},
		[1] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1077,
			q2 = 174,
			q3 = 3832,
			q4 = 1492,
		},
		[2] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1105,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3814,
			q4 = 1572,
		},
		[3] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1104,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3815,
			q4 = 1630,
		},
		[4] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1102,
			q2 = 175,
			q3 = 3851,
			q4 = 1680,
		},
		[5] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 172,
			q3 = 3899,
			q4 = 1697,
		},
		[6] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3912,
			q4 = 1745,
		},
		[7] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1151,
			q2 = 170,
			q3 = 3911,
			q4 = 1812,
		},
		[8] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 838,
			q1 = 1152,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3956,
			q4 = 1896,
		},
		[9] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1172,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3957,
			q4 = 1928,
		},
		[10] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1192,
			q2 = 189,
			q3 = 3961,
			q4 = 1974,
		},
		[11] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1187,
			q2 = 188,
			q3 = 3954,
			q4 = 2031,
		},
		[12] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3980,
			q4 = 2061,
		},
		[13] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4023,
			q4 = 2114,
		},
		[14] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4025,
			q4 = 2115,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>4a2hmw6t7q44v9cbsubcenqt8b18j4o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133482</id>
      <parentid>15133135</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T06:05:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current daily statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15133482</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="1671" sha1="soqy80g6f6j69lkgcn6j6k6yqweraed" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated daily data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	days = {
		[0] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 748,
			q1 = 1017,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3735,
			q4 = 1405,
		},
		[1] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1077,
			q2 = 174,
			q3 = 3832,
			q4 = 1492,
		},
		[2] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1105,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3814,
			q4 = 1572,
		},
		[3] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1104,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3815,
			q4 = 1630,
		},
		[4] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1102,
			q2 = 175,
			q3 = 3851,
			q4 = 1680,
		},
		[5] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 172,
			q3 = 3899,
			q4 = 1697,
		},
		[6] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3912,
			q4 = 1745,
		},
		[7] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1151,
			q2 = 170,
			q3 = 3911,
			q4 = 1812,
		},
		[8] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 838,
			q1 = 1152,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3956,
			q4 = 1896,
		},
		[9] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1172,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3957,
			q4 = 1928,
		},
		[10] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1192,
			q2 = 189,
			q3 = 3961,
			q4 = 1974,
		},
		[11] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1187,
			q2 = 188,
			q3 = 3954,
			q4 = 2031,
		},
		[12] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3980,
			q4 = 2061,
		},
		[13] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4023,
			q4 = 2114,
		},
		[14] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4038,
			q4 = 2118,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>soqy80g6f6j69lkgcn6j6k6yqweraed</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133635</id>
      <parentid>15133482</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:05:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current daily statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15133635</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="1671" sha1="93oyhs814wogu4xrq073qvcpkrdsy8x" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated daily data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	days = {
		[0] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 748,
			q1 = 1017,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3735,
			q4 = 1405,
		},
		[1] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1077,
			q2 = 174,
			q3 = 3832,
			q4 = 1492,
		},
		[2] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1105,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3814,
			q4 = 1572,
		},
		[3] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1104,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3815,
			q4 = 1630,
		},
		[4] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1102,
			q2 = 175,
			q3 = 3851,
			q4 = 1680,
		},
		[5] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 172,
			q3 = 3899,
			q4 = 1697,
		},
		[6] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3912,
			q4 = 1745,
		},
		[7] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1151,
			q2 = 170,
			q3 = 3911,
			q4 = 1812,
		},
		[8] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 838,
			q1 = 1152,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3956,
			q4 = 1896,
		},
		[9] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1172,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3957,
			q4 = 1928,
		},
		[10] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1192,
			q2 = 189,
			q3 = 3961,
			q4 = 1974,
		},
		[11] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1187,
			q2 = 188,
			q3 = 3954,
			q4 = 2031,
		},
		[12] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3980,
			q4 = 2061,
		},
		[13] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4023,
			q4 = 2114,
		},
		[14] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4039,
			q4 = 2119,
		},
	},
}</text>
      <sha1>93oyhs814wogu4xrq073qvcpkrdsy8x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133787</id>
      <parentid>15133635</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:05:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>InductiveBot</username>
        <id>204982</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Updating current daily statistics for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]</comment>
      <origin>15133787</origin>
      <model>Scribunto</model>
      <format>text/plain</format>
      <text bytes="1671" sha1="6vzvv00raweq25i8q23rgft8b63i6xg" xml:space="preserve">--[=[
Automatically generated daily data for indexes in [[Wikisource:Community collaboration/Monthly Challenge/June 2025]]
]=]
return {
	days = {
		[0] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 748,
			q1 = 1017,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3735,
			q4 = 1405,
		},
		[1] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1077,
			q2 = 174,
			q3 = 3832,
			q4 = 1492,
		},
		[2] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1105,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3814,
			q4 = 1572,
		},
		[3] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 826,
			q1 = 1104,
			q2 = 177,
			q3 = 3815,
			q4 = 1630,
		},
		[4] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1102,
			q2 = 175,
			q3 = 3851,
			q4 = 1680,
		},
		[5] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 172,
			q3 = 3899,
			q4 = 1697,
		},
		[6] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1116,
			q2 = 171,
			q3 = 3912,
			q4 = 1745,
		},
		[7] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 827,
			q1 = 1151,
			q2 = 170,
			q3 = 3911,
			q4 = 1812,
		},
		[8] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 838,
			q1 = 1152,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3956,
			q4 = 1896,
		},
		[9] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1172,
			q2 = 187,
			q3 = 3957,
			q4 = 1928,
		},
		[10] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1192,
			q2 = 189,
			q3 = 3961,
			q4 = 1974,
		},
		[11] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1187,
			q2 = 188,
			q3 = 3954,
			q4 = 2031,
		},
		[12] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1180,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 3980,
			q4 = 2061,
		},
		[13] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4023,
			q4 = 2114,
		},
		[14] = {
			count = 13323,
			q0 = 840,
			q1 = 1185,
			q2 = 186,
			q3 = 4042,
			q4 = 2119,
		},
	},
}</text>
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    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/64</title>
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      <text bytes="1772" sha1="a6wazdow494zqm0jk4wz2n0m35eey90" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|58|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;gray eyes. Her lips, in spite of her constant malnutrition, persisted unbelievably red. When she met excitement those gray eyes darkened and shone, her cheeks flushed a little, her small hands fluttered. And she was nearly always excited. Something within her frail bosom pulsed in a constant revolt against the spirit of things that kept her in these conditions.

&quot;I will not always live like this, Ma—I'll get out of it some way.&quot;

And her mother, though always scoffing, believed her with a dreary hopefulness. &quot;If there's a way to be found out, Maggie'll find it.&quot;

Maggie found early that one avenue of escape lay through men. They were stronger than women, they made money. They did not give the impression of shrinking from spending the last penny lest when that cent was gone there should be no more. All the train-men liked her. She could not get much order in that abominable home, but she could and did keep herself clean and neat. She washed her few garments over night; she wound a stray ribbon, from a box of cigars or a box of candy, through her hair. Some of the men, young students, &quot;on the road&quot; during their summer vacations, used to flirt with her.

&quot;Hurry and grow up, Mag. When I get through school I'll come back and marry you. How'd you like to live in a little house—not like this!—in Washington?&quot; Or Wilmington or Savannah as the case might be. &quot;I'd give you pretty dresses.&quot;

Poor Maggie. Her calla-lily charm visibly lessened in those days when she opened her pretty mouth. She disclosed herself then for what she was, a true daughter of the Tenderloin.

&quot;Aw quit your kiddin!&quot;

But she came slowly to realize that here was a way out. If she could only grow up—if she were—say—seventeen.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Portal:Jersey City, New Jersey</title>
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      <text bytes="876" sha1="bayfhgh42ym8jdulyzyd294x8m698mj" xml:space="preserve">{{portal header
 | title     = Jersey City, [[Portal:New Jersey|New Jersey]]
 | class = F
 | subclass1 = 
 | reviewed  = 
 | shortcut  = 
 | notes     = 
}}

==Works==
* ''[[From canoe to tunnel|From Canoe to Tunnel]]'' (1909) by the Free Public Library of Jersey City
* {{cite book|last=Mangin|first=Joseph F.|title='''[[A Map of that part of the Town of Jersey, Commonly called Powles Hook]]'''|year=1804|publisher=P. Desobry's Lith}}

===Encyclopedia articles===
* {{AmCyc link|Jersey City}}
* {{EB9 link|Jersey City|volume=13}}
* {{NIE link|Jersey City}}
* {{Nuttall link|Jersey City|J}}
* {{EB1911 link|Jersey City}}
* {{NSRW link|Jersey City}}
* {{Collier's link|Jersey City}}

===Newspapers===
* [[Jersey Journal]] (1867–)

===Film===
* {{cite book|title='''[[Harbor Blaze]]'''|year=1959|publisher=Universal-International News}}


{{New Jersey}}
{{authority control}}</text>
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    <title>Page:The Strand (Volume 73).pdf/113</title>
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      <text bytes="2206" sha1="aq33po60t69e9u2zs63ikjxetk4wz8i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;JuniperSandhurst&quot; /&gt;{{rh||A Symposium of Eminent Writers|93}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;passed between the brothers established beyond a doubt Armand's complicity in the murder. Both were convicted and condemned to death, but, as is usual in Belgium, their sentence was commuted into penal servitude for life.

&quot;The murder of M. Bernays,&quot; commented ''The Times'' in a leading article on December 23rd, 1882, &quot;could only have been committed by men having plenty of
time and money and the experience which comes of education and great knowledge of the world.&quot; Whether that be so or not, it certainly deserves to be remembered as a highly ingenious crime, the authors of which would probably have remained undetected had not a tradesman, with whom he had dealings eight years before, recognized Léon's handwriting. That possibility should have been foreseen, but owing to his long absence from Belgium the risk was probably considered negligible.

{{rule}}


{{c/s}}
{{larger block|
THE CASE OF SIR EDMUND GODFREY.

''By'' G. K. CHESTERTON,}}

''Author of''

''&quot;The Innocence of Father Brown,&quot; etc.''
{{c/e}}

I suppose that the perfect and ideal murder is one that will never be discussed because it will never be discovered. Murderers are the most modest of artists, and alone among the followers of any art are without any vain desire that the world should admire their masterpieces; nay, are often reluctant, as in an excess of Christian humility, to receive the intellectual praises that are their due. In real life the finest achievements are necessarily nameless; not only because the police never discover the murderer, but because they never even discover the murder.

In fiction the same ought to be true, and it may well be maintained that the most mysterious murder of all would be one that remained unknown to the reader—or, perhaps, even to the author. And this in itself opens up a pleasing avenue of fancy. There are a great many natural deaths in novels, and it would be gratifying to reconstruct each of them as a crime committed without even the connivance of the novelist. Somebody said, not without shrewdness, about Mrs. Mackenzie, the Campaigner in The Newcomes,&quot; &quot;The truth is she drank. Thackeray didn't know it; but she drank.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Pran of Albania.djvu/174</title>
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How long would they stay there? How long could she stand like this undiscovered! She must not move. A splash or any sound would betray her. The water round her knees was cold—spring water. She had heard of springs like this, that rose under the ground and flowed into ground holes, emptying themselves under the earth.

The voices sounded louder. The two men argued with each other, it seemed. Then a third figure showed, a third voice broke in. Nothing to do but wait till they had done and gone away. What was it all about? Why did the three talk secretly in here? Spies, perhaps. The sense of what they said was difficult to get, for many of the words she had not learned from Dil nor ever heard before. What were they saying? If she could only follow! Suddenly she caught a word she knew—“to-day”—and then the very word her own folk used for rifles and fighting. They talked about the war—no doubt of that—but what? Could it be plans they spoke of? She must hear what they said. It might be something of importance—something her troops should know—her troops—the mountaineers that waited, as Ndrek said, three days now, fearing a surprise. She strained her ears.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Pran of Albania.djvu/175</title>
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      <text bytes="1289" sha1="75fxoeilerkg6m95f1rzj0sn5ffbuk8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|157|PRAN LISTENS|PRAN OF ALBANIA}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;If only she could make some sense of it—make something sure—past doubt.

She listened. The third man did not speak as did the other two. His accent was not the same, and now and then he broke into her own tongue—Albanian. He—yes, she was sure—she heard the words—he was a mountaineer, Albanian, who talked as traitors talk, to help his country’s enemies. His broken Slavic, more like that Dil had taught her, was not so hard to understand, and he spoke slowly. She could follow now. It was a plan—the plan—that Ndrek and the others longed to know.

“At noon to-day”—and the names of two places. Yes, she understood. The Slavs were getting ready for an attack to-day, and planned to strike at the mountaineers from two points of vantage—the Gulch of the Fig Tree, and Gur-i-zi—the Black Rock. She would remember those two names if ever she got out of here alive and found safe way back to Ndrek and the men. She held her breath, anxious to catch each word.

The traitor told where the Albanians camped and how to surprise them coming from two sides. He said, “They are glad of rest. At noon, when the heat is most intense, they sleep, many of them.” The other men asked questions. “Had the men food enough?—{{upe}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Pran of Albania.djvu/176</title>
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      <text bytes="1378" sha1="c7deiqc2n7le3ow7xwsi1qfz2v17vwx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|158|CHAPTERNAME|PRAN OF ALBANIA}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and ammunition?” Sometimes, to make the other understand, they used Albanian words, mingling the languages and making their talk for Pran even more intelligible. It was all clear in her mind now. If only they would go!

Things settled, the men talked of other matters. “I’m thirsty,” said one. Another answered, “Farther back in the cave the water is good for drinking.” Pran’s heart stood still. What if they should come too close and see her? That would be the end—and all her listening of no avail—and she? The man’s steps neared. Pran stood a statue there. If only she had had on a woman’s dark clothing, not the girl’s white that she wore. A terror mounted in her as she heard the man’s feet splash in the shallow water. She shut her eyes and prayed. This was the end. A thousand images chased themselves through her head—Lukja—the boys—and Ndrek—the house in Thethi—they passed like visions before her shut eyes. She saw a face—Nush’s face—she saw again the signal fires they had watched together. His voice sounded in her ears—“You have my necklace. It will protect you. Each bear’s tooth is a spear to guard you.” “A spear to guard you!” Pran’s breath caught; her hand went to her throat, where the chain always hung. Her fingers clutched it. She felt the ivory points wound-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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The men went out. Their steps died instantly, but Pran, dreading a return or some newcomer, stood motionless, waiting. Should she go now? There was no time to lose. Knowledge such as this must find its way at once to the tribal chiefs. And she felt no assurance she could find the way back to the men; though now the sun, being higher, would help her. Yes, she must go—must chance it.

Slowly she moved, almost without a sound, through the shallowing water toward the cave’s opening. Softly she stepped, her ears alert to catch the slightest noise outside. At the door she paused, peering out into the sunlit world. No one in sight.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1314" sha1="g5n67lcq8ky31qazgczd7833xxt4po2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|160|CHAPTERNAME|PRAN OF ALBANIA}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;No sound. Now—to be gone? Which way? She saw the thicket where she had first stood and heard the men. She made her way toward that. The sun cast clear shadows northward. She stood still in the bushes, wondering what way to take now. Then she put her hand on the bear’s-tooth necklace, holding it lightly. It had helped her once. Why could it not help again? “Guide me,” she whispered. She walked now, looking neither to left nor right, unthinking, giving her feet the way, murmuring to herself, “I shall get back. Guide me—I shall get back.” She walked unfaltering a long way, it seemed; then stopped, hearing a woman’s voice speaking her own tongue. Her heart leaped up.

“Sister,” she called, “come here. I am lost.”

The woman came; laughed at Pran’s serious face. “Do not be anxious. You are safe here, girl. The enemy dares not come as far as this,” she assured her.

“He dares come far enough,” said Pran, unsmiling. “Where are the men?”

The woman led her easily back to the camp. Pran walked hurriedly among the groups of men who crouched and sat about their breakfast fires unnoticing. She reached the hollow where Ndrek had been the night before. He was not there. What should she do? Tell someone else? Suppose they should not&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1344" sha1="518xr4ydoolf85wtu397fmjem3sytpx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|161|PRAN LISTENS|PRAN OF ALBANIA}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;believe her, or laugh at the story, calling it a dream? She must not risk that. It was the chief who should know. She must find where the leaders were and tell them. She made inquiry of one of the men. He answered without question. Here stranger things happened than the mere asking of an anxious girl for a mountain chief. The man led her then across some level fields and behind a small hill to where a tall man stood talking with two others. “He is the chief of Castrati,” said her guide and left her.

Pran stood near the group, waiting. At last the tall man turned to her. Under his heavy eyebrows shone two keen blue eyes. His flowing mustache was lighter than those of his two companions and tinged with red. His voice was friendly, courteous. “What is it, girl? Whom do you seek here?”

“I seek the chief. I have news—news of the Slavs and what they plan against us.”

The chief showed no surprise. His information came by a thousand devious channels, some more unlikely and less trustworthy than words of a clear-eyed, serious young girl. He motioned Pran to follow him a little distance from the other men. He fixed his eyes intently on Pran’s eyes. “Tell me,” he said.

She began her story. When she described the cave he said, “I know the place well. It has been rendez-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1296" sha1="0nn0jiasspudmz16pq1kk9d14kclpk3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|162|CHAPTERNAME|PRAN OF ALBANIA}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;vous before for spies and traitors. It lies in our land, yet now not in our land, but close. They dare to come so near, being too confident. The Maltsor you heard talk with them fights likely as not with us. Too bad you cannot tell me of his looks and costume. Vermin like him we should be well rid of.” The chief patted his rifle barrel. “I’ve a bullet here for him if ever I find him out.” He smiled a little. “Go on,” he said.

Pran told how she had listened and at last made out the words. “First, when I heard it in the other tongue,” she told him, “I was not sure, but when the traitor talked he used much of our language, and besides, he repeated what he said a dozen times so that those two should understand. Then I was sure—sure of the places and the names; the time was noon, the places, the Fig Tree Gulch and Gur-i-zi. You know where they are?”

“So they are named with us,” answered the chief. He asked a few more questions of her and then said, “It is all clear. The shadows must get no shorter. The men must start.” He called the two men to him and talked rapidly with them in low tones. They left at a trot. The chief turned back to Pran.

“I will go,” she said.

“What is your name?” he asked.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Author:Leonard Hall</title>
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 | lastname     = Hall
 | last_initial = Ha
 | birthyear    = &lt;!--data now imported from wikidata, please consider deleting once matched--&gt;
 | deathyear    = &lt;!--data now imported from wikidata, please consider deleting once matched--&gt;
 | description  = Contributor to [[Photoplay]] in 1929.
}}

==Works==
* {{article link
 | article = Reeling Around
 | periodical = Photoplay | volume = 36 | issue = 2
 | year = 1929 | month = 07
}} and many other issues.
* {{article link
 | article = Young King Leer
 | periodical = Photoplay | volume = 36 | issue = 2
 | year = 1929 | month = 07
}}
* {{article link
 | article = Revolution in Hollywood
 | periodical = Photoplay | volume = 36 | issue = 3
 | year = 1929 | month = 08
}}
* {{article link
 | article = How to Make a Talking Picture
 | periodical = Photoplay | volume = 36 | issue = 3
 | year = 1929 | month = 08
}}
* {{article link
 | article = How to Write a Theme Song
 | periodical = Photoplay | volume = 36 | issue = 4
 | year = 1929 | month = 09
}}
* {{article link
 | article = The Herds of Hollywood
 | periodical = Photoplay | volume = 36 | issue = 5
 | year = 1929 | month = 10
}} 
* {{article link
 | article = Vamping With Sound
 | periodical = Photoplay | volume = 36 | issue = 5
 | year = 1929 | month = 10
}} 
* {{article link
 | article = Exposing the Hollywood Orgy
 | periodical = Photoplay | volume = 36 | issue = 6
 | year = 1929 | month = 11
}} 
{{PD-US}}</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Children and Young Persons Act 1933 (UKPGA Geo5-23-24-12 qp).pdf/3</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4836572</id>
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      <id>15131750</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>ToxicPea</username>
        <id>3146019</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15131750</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1958" sha1="hn7m6n10fn5y76srk7kfwy2lem3tycj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;ToxicPea&quot; /&gt;{{Sidenotes begin}}
{{rh|[23 {{Sc|Geo. 5.]}}|{{Center|''Children and&lt;br&gt;Young Persons Act,'' 1933.}}|[{{sc|Ch.}} '''12'''.]}}
{{Clear}}
{{Outside RL|{{u|A.D. 1933.}}}}
{|style=&quot;margin: auto;&quot;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|{{Sc|[[Children and Young Persons Act 1933/Part 3|Part III.&lt;br&gt;Protection of Children and Young Persons in relation to Criminal and Summary Proceedings.]]}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|''General Provisions as to Preliminary Proceedings.''
&lt;noinclude&gt;
|-
| {{Smaller|Section}} || 
&lt;/noinclude&gt;
|-
| 31. || Separation of children and young persons from adults in police stations, courts, &amp;c.
|-
| 32. || Bail or detention of children and young persons arrested.
|-
| 33. || Remand or committal to custody in remand homes.
|-
| 34. || Attendance at court of parent of child or young person charged with an offence, &amp;c.
|-
| 35. || Notice to local authority of charges against and applications relating to children and young persons.
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|''General Provisions as to Proceedings in Court.''
|-
| 36. || Prohibition against children being present in court during the trial of other persons.
|-
| 37. || Power to clear court while child or young person is giving evidence in certain cases.
|-
| 38. || Evidence of child of tender years.
|-
| 39. || Power to prohibit publication of certain matter in newspapers.
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|''Special Procedure with regard to Offences specified in First Schedule.''
|-
| 40. || Warrant to search for or remove a child or young person.
|-
| 41. || Power to proceed with case in absence of child or young person.
|-
| 42. || Extension of power to take deposition of child or young person.
|-
| 43. || Admission of deposition of child or young person in evidence.
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|''Principles to be observed by all Courts in dealing with Children or Young Persons.''
|-
| 44. || General considerations.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}
{{rh||A2|iii}}
{{Sidenotes end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pran of Albania.djvu/262</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4836663</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131934</id>
      <parentid>15101045</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:15:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ToxicPea</username>
        <id>3146019</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15131934</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1203" sha1="j24uy6o7x5wwnfd5gs9e0t3q7nmnd81" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;ToxicPea&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|244|CHAPTERNAME|PRAN OF ALBANIA}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|
{{fqm|“}}All about us the trees were in bud,
The birds all sang and the flowers bloomed,
The nightingale sang ‘gurra gurra.’
Do you still hold that beauty in your heart?”}}

Pran’s happiness overflowed in her eyes. She put her hands on Nush’s shoulders. “Glory to your mouth, Prendnush, Son-of-Prenk, glory to your mouth. The song was made for us.”

“Not the song only, Pran, but all the world,” said Nush. “Look about you. The sun and the breeze and the blossoming branches are shining and blowing and blooming for us—for you and me alone.”

“If we stay longer,” smiled Pran, “you will be making a song of your own, Nush.” She stood, and Nush too got to his feet. Pran regarded him almost severely. “Nush, Nush,” she said, “I cannot stay here a moment longer. It is not lawful for a girl to talk with her betrothed. Would you have me break all the laws of the mountains for you?”

Nush’s eyes sparkled. “All but one,” he said, “all but the law that makes autumn the season for weddings.”

“Enough; I am going,” said Pran, unrelenting, though her eyes were softer than her tones. “You&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Travels in the Interior Districts of Africa. Volume II.pdf/136</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4836830</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132070</id>
      <parentid>15101573</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:04:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
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      <text bytes="882" sha1="1x1a0vf8u2171m5xnwhb27xsfs3uktk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;{{rh|cxx|ACCOUNT OF THE|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;vessel, we shall lose no time on the coast. But at all events you will probably hear from me, as I mean to write from Kashna by my guide, and endeavour to hire some of the merchants to carry a letter to the north from that place. With best wishes for your health and prosperity I am, &amp;c.&quot;

P.S. Have the goodness to remember me most kindly to my friend Major Rennell. 

''To the Earl Camden, One of His Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State, &amp;c. &amp;c. &amp;c''

{{block right|align=center|''On board of H. M. Schooner Joliba,&lt;br&gt;at anchor off Sansanding,&lt;br&gt;November'' 17, 1805.}}
{{sc|My Lord,}}&lt;br&gt;
&quot;I have herewith sent you an account of each day's proceedings since we left ''Kayee''. Many of the incidents related are in themselves extremely trifling; but are to recall to my recollection (if it pleases intended God to restore me again to my dear native&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Index:Reference to some of the works executed in stained glass - William Raphael Eginton.pdf</title>
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  <page>
    <title>The Lily of Life</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4837915</id>
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      <id>15132361</id>
      <parentid>15104739</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:04:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>+ auth. control</comment>
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      <text bytes="742" sha1="2jsbvgsbbehqshowb1n3wuxi2d2rjc0" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title    = The Lily of Life
 | author   = Marie of Romania
 | section  = 
 | previous = 
 | next     = 
 | year     = 1913
 | notes    = 
}}
{{default layout|Layout 2}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; include=1 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; include=7 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; include=8 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; include=11 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; include=13 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; include=15 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; from=17 to=19 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; from=20 to=200 /&gt;

{{authority control}}
{{PD-US|1913}}</text>
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    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:05:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>+ illustrator</comment>
      <origin>15132363</origin>
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      <text bytes="774" sha1="5b3ptw3ho02kzp314kqbd9ermizk96d" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title    = The Lily of Life
 | author   = Marie of Romania
 | illustrator = Helen Stratton
 | year     = 1913
 | section  = 
 | previous = 
 | next     = 
 | notes    = 
}}
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{{ppb}}
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{{ppb}}
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{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; include=11 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; include=13 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; include=15 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; from=17 to=19 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Lily of Life (1913).djvu&quot; from=20 to=200 /&gt;

{{authority control}}
{{PD-US|1913}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>User talk:82.167.147.5</title>
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    <revision>
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        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
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      <text bytes="2654" sha1="cm11f0hqlvii4maqhsldbcal9r0uul6" xml:space="preserve">== The Lily of Life ==

Thanks for working on this; however, you started a day early.  This work was added to the Monthly Challenge for June, and the server time is still May.  By working on this book before the server ticked over to June, the edited pages will not add towards the page count for the Challenge for either May or for June. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:20, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}} It requires someone to upload the images. [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 07:20, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Do We Agree? ==

Thanks for catching my sloppiness and cleaning it up. [[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 04:40, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}} Feel free to continue validating the pages [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 07:19, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Use of deprecated templates. ==

Don't. Please explain why you are using an 'old' template that was replaced everywhere else on Wikisource. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:32, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

: Apologies, must have confused you another IP. I've migrated the uses over to {{tl|ph}} and template styles for you.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:58, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Pictorial Multiplication Table]] ==

# That is an alternative title of the work: it's how the title is written out on the title page. Thus it is not an unneeded redirect.
# Putting {{tl|sdelete}} without giving a reason is bad form.
# Re-making the exact same deletion request three days later is bad form.
That page doesn't fall under a criteria for speedy deletion. Not all redirects are unneeded; and this one isn't because it's not &quot;incorrect&quot;; it's an alternate title. Please stop re-tagging for deletion the same page. If you think that it does fit in CSD, then I'll gladly listen to your arguments; but trying to force your way by repeating the same unjusstified deletion request won't help with anything. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:34, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

== csc ==

This template is designed for whole blocks of text in small-caps.  It is overkill for individual words.  It also just replaces with two other templates, which them have to be parsed, so it creates additional parsing for the software. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:09, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cm11f0hqlvii4maqhsldbcal9r0uul6</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132535</id>
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      <text bytes="2740" sha1="lexqxlk56tefg1rmkoi86ifizvx2qqu" xml:space="preserve">== The Lily of Life ==

Thanks for working on this; however, you started a day early.  This work was added to the Monthly Challenge for June, and the server time is still May.  By working on this book before the server ticked over to June, the edited pages will not add towards the page count for the Challenge for either May or for June. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:20, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}} It requires someone to upload the images. [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 07:20, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Do We Agree? ==

Thanks for catching my sloppiness and cleaning it up. [[User:IdiotSavant|IdiotSavant]] ([[User talk:IdiotSavant|talk]]) 04:40, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}} Feel free to continue validating the pages [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 07:19, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

== Use of deprecated templates. ==

Don't. Please explain why you are using an 'old' template that was replaced everywhere else on Wikisource. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:32, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

: Apologies, must have confused you another IP. I've migrated the uses over to {{tl|ph}} and template styles for you.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 14:58, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== [[The Pictorial Multiplication Table]] ==

# That is an alternative title of the work: it's how the title is written out on the title page. Thus it is not an unneeded redirect.
# Putting {{tl|sdelete}} without giving a reason is bad form.
# Re-making the exact same deletion request three days later is bad form.
That page doesn't fall under a criteria for speedy deletion. Not all redirects are unneeded; and this one isn't because it's not &quot;incorrect&quot;; it's an alternate title. Please stop re-tagging for deletion the same page. If you think that it does fit in CSD, then I'll gladly listen to your arguments; but trying to force your way by repeating the same unjusstified deletion request won't help with anything. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:34, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

== csc ==

This template is designed for whole blocks of text in small-caps.  It is overkill for individual words.  It also just replaces with two other templates, which them have to be parsed, so it creates additional parsing for the software. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:09, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:noted [[Special:Contributions/82.167.147.5|82.167.147.5]] 23:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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    <title>Page:The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu/15</title>
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{{sc|The}} writings of Vladimir Korolenko have been likened to &quot;a fresh breeze blowing through the heavy air of a hospital.&quot; The hospital is the pessimistic literature of the modern Russian intellectuals; the fresh breeze is the voice of the simple-hearted children of &quot;Mother Russia.&quot; These are for the most part tillers of the soil and conquerors of waste places; peasants, pioneers, and Siberian exiles; they often belong to the great class of &quot;the insulted and the injured&quot;: they suffer untold hardships, but their heads are unbowed and their hearts are full of courage and the desire for justice. Among them the great writer's early life was spent.

Vladimir Korolenko was born on June 15th, 1853, in Zhitomir, a small town in Southwestern or Little Russia. On his father's side he came of an old Cossack family, his mother was the daughter of a Polish landowner of Zhitomir. The boy's early life was spent amidst picturesque surroundings; he grew up among the Poles, Jews, and light-hearted, dark-eyed peasants that make up the population of Little Russia, and he never lost the poetic love of nature and the wholesome sense of humour that were {{hyphenated word start|nur|nurtured}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{c|vii}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-05</title>
    <ns>4</ns>
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      <minor />
      <comment>archiving 1 section from [[Wikisource:Scriptorium]] (after section [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2025-05#FYI:_Wikisource:_Preserving_the_Past_for_the_Future|FYI:_Wikisource:_Preserving_the_Past_for_the_Future]])</comment>
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== [[Index:Writings of Halle Tanner Dillon Johnson]] ==

This seems to be two separate documents. 

The first page is also at [[Index:Letter to Clara Marshall from Halle T. Dillon page 1.jpg]] which is taken from Commons. I don't know if the second page is there. 

The other two pages are a different document which seems to be incomplete. I am not clear of the source of that. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:54, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

== Why do the rules have varying thickness, despite using the same template? ==

Why do the rules have varying thickness, despite using the same template? It seems to depend on what text is before or after it.  See: [[The Bergen Record/1935/Teaneck Driver Held In Bogota On 3 Charges]]. [[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 17:28, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:You mean the three under the headings ? They look the same to me. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:04, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:Likewise, I see no difference.  It may be your browser. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:06, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
* Thanks! It must be my browser, when I view at 125% they are of different thicknesses, but you are right at 100% they are the same.  --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 20:08, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

==Mainspacing an index==
Anyone want to help me mainspace [[Index:Journal of proceedings of the eleventh annual session of the Worthy Grand Lodge, of the Order of British Templars, of New Brunswick.pdf]]? Not sure titles/issues/etc - Canadiana.ca has 8 of the 13 annual reports; this is #11. [[User:Fundy Isles Historian - J|Fundy Isles Historian - J]] ([[User talk:Fundy Isles Historian - J|talk]]) 05:22, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

== Changes to [[template:sisterprojects]] ==

Noting that I just:
* added Wikifunctions; as that's a Wikimedia project like the others already listed;
* added MediaWiki, as it's also a WMF-hosted community project;
* removed foundationwiki, as that is not editable and not a community project.
(Addition of [[f:]] requested by @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]].)

I think these changes are uncontroversial, but as one of them was previously declined 2 years ago, I'm announcing here so that there are no surprises, and for any possible discussion of these changes to be centralised. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:56, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks, seems reasonable. It would probably also be nice to have actual text like &quot;Wikispecies&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;free species directory&quot;, but at least actually linking all the sister projects is a good start. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 19:57, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-19 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W19&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/19|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The Wikimedia Foundation has shared the latest draft update to their [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2025-2026|annual plan]] for next year (July 2025–June 2026). This includes an [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2025-2026|executive summary]] (also on [[diffblog:2025/04/25/sharing-the-wikimedia-foundations-2025-2026-draft-annual-plan/|Diff]]), details about the three main [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2025-2026/Goals|goals]] ([[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2025-2026/Product &amp; Technology OKRs|Infrastructure]], [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2025-2026/Goals/Volunteer Support|Volunteer Support]], and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2025-2026/Goals/Effectiveness|Effectiveness]]), [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2025-2026/Global Trends|global trends]], and the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2025-2026/Budget Overview|budget]] and [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2025-2026/Financial Model|financial model]]. Feedback and questions are welcome on the [[m:Talk:Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2025-2026|talk page]] until the end of May.

'''Updates for editors'''
* For wikis that have the [[m:Special:MyLanguage/CampaignEvents/Deployment status|CampaignEvents extension enabled]], two new feature improvements have been released:
** Admins can now choose which namespaces are permitted for [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Event Center/Registration|Event Registration]] via [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Community Configuration|Community Configuration]] ([[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CampaignEvents/Registration/Permitted namespaces|documentation]]). The default setup is for event registration to be permitted in the Event namespace, but other namespaces (such as the project namespace or WikiProject namespace) can now be added. With this change, communities like WikiProjects can now more easily use Event Registration for their collaborative activities.
** Editors can now [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Transclusion|transclude]] the Collaboration List on a wiki page ([[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CampaignEvents/Collaboration list/Transclusion|documentation]]). The Collaboration List is an automated list of events and WikiProjects on the wikis, accessed via {{#special:AllEvents}} ([[w:en:Special:AllEvents|example]]). Now, the Collaboration List can be added to all sorts of wiki pages, such as: a wiki mainpage, a WikiProject page, an affiliate page, an event page, or even a user page.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Developers who use the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;moment&lt;/code&gt; library in gadgets and user scripts should revise their code to use alternatives like the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;Intl&lt;/code&gt; library or the new &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;mediawiki.DateFormatter&lt;/code&gt; library. The &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;moment&lt;/code&gt; library has been deprecated and will begin to log messages in the developer console. You can see a global search for current uses, and [[phab:T392532|ask related questions in this Phabricator task]].
* Developers who maintain a tool that queries the Wikidata term store tables (&lt;code dir=ltr style=&quot;white-space: nowrap;&quot;&gt;wbt_*&lt;/code&gt;) need to update their code to connect to a separate database cluster. These tables are being split into a separate database cluster. Tools that query those tables via the wiki replicas must be adapted to connect to the new cluster instead. [[wikitech:News/2025 Wikidata term store database split|Documentation and related links are available]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T390954]
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.44/wmf.28|MediaWiki]]

'''In depth'''
* The latest [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart/Project/Updates|Chart Project newsletter]] is available. It includes updates on preparing to expand the deployment to additional wikis as soon as this week (starting May 6) and scaling up over the following weeks, plus exploring filtering and transforming source data.

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/19|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W19&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 00:14, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Quiddity (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28665011 --&gt;

== Is possible to add txt files on Wikisource? ==

I need to upload complete works in Tibetan (in .txt format) to Wikisource, but I currently lack the technical skills to do so beyond adding basic transcription text. Could you kindly guide me through the process in a simple and clear step-by-step manner? through Wikimedia common or any other methods? [[User:TaDhondup|TaDhondup]] ([[User talk:TaDhondup|talk]]) 03:43, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:If you mean to English Wikisource, then I would like to point out that English Wikisource hosts only ''previously published'' works ''written in English''. Unfortunately, it seems there is no Tibetan Wikisource, so Tibetan texts might be hosted in the [[:mul:Main_Page|multilingual Wikisource]], see e. g. [[:mul:Category:Tibetan]]. I do not know much about mul: processes, but usually it is recommended to upload files to [[c:Main_Page|Commons]], and then [[Help:Proofread|proofread]] it. The text of the document has to be in public domain or released under some accepted free licence, see [[Help:Licensing compatibility]]. Accepted textual formats of the uploaded files are .pdf and .djvu per [[c:Commons:File_types#Textual formats]]. Pinging also [[User:Jusjih|Jusjih]], who is the mul.ws admin and might be able to give more advice. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:01, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for your advices and I got a solution to so. Appreciate lots [[User:TaDhondup|TaDhondup]] ([[User talk:TaDhondup|talk]]) 03:28, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

== We will be enabling the new Charts extension on your wiki soon! ==

''(Apologies for posting in English)''

Hi all! We have good news to share regarding the ongoing problem with graphs and charts affecting all wikis that use them.

As you probably know, the [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Graph|old Graph extension]] was disabled in 2023 [[listarchive:list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/EWL4AGBEZEDMNNFTM4FRD4MHOU3CVESO/|due to security reasons]]. We’ve worked in these two years to find a solution that could replace the old extension, and provide a safer and better solution to users who wanted to showcase graphs and charts in their articles. We therefore developed the [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|Charts extension]], which will be replacing the old Graph extension and potentially also the [[:mw:Extension:EasyTimeline|EasyTimeline extension]].

After successfully deploying the extension on Italian, Swedish, and Hebrew Wikipedia, as well as on MediaWiki.org, as part of a pilot phase, we are now happy to announce that we are moving forward with the next phase of deployment, which will also include your wiki.

The deployment will happen in batches, and will start from '''May 6'''. Please, consult [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart/Project#Deployment Timeline|our page on MediaWiki.org]] to discover when the new Charts extension will be deployed on your wiki. You can also [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Chart|consult the documentation]] about the extension on MediaWiki.org.

If you have questions, need clarifications, or just want to express your opinion about it, please refer to the [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension_talk:Chart/Project|project’s talk page on Mediawiki.org]], or ping me directly under this thread. If you encounter issues using Charts once it gets enabled on your wiki, please report it on the [[:mw:Extension_talk:Chart/Project|talk page]] or at [[phab:tag/charts|Phabricator]].

Thank you in advance! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:07, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Sannita_(WMF)/Mass_sending_test&amp;oldid=28663781 --&gt;

== Page styles are not automatically applied in the Main namespace ==

[[Help:Page styles#Where the CSS is applied]] says that Index page styles are applied &quot;On the transcluding page when pages are transcluded using the &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;page/&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; [''sic''] tag&quot;, but this is not happening in practice. I noticed this when using the page styles to target the &lt;code&gt;.references&lt;/code&gt; class, which works for [[Page:What's the Difference?.pdf/3]] but not for [[What's the Difference?]]. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 21:36, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
: The style ''is'' applied; the issue is that the &quot;automatic&quot; references, when no reflist is included, appear outside of the content (&lt;code&gt;.mw-parser-output&lt;/code&gt;); and templatestyles is limited to inside &lt;code&gt;.mw-parser-output&lt;/code&gt;.
: So adding {{tl|reflist}} should do the trick. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:49, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::Placing {{tl|reflist}} on the [[Page:What's the Difference?.pdf/9|very last page]] works. Going forward, I will do this instead of placing it in the Main namespace to make transclusion easier. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 14:55, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:::The discussion about page styles is interesting, but in this specific case is there any advantage to styling {{tl|reflist}} instead of just using {{tl|smallrefs}} in the main page? [[User:Qq1122qq|Qq1122qq]] ([[User talk:Qq1122qq|talk]]) 15:06, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::::Not really, it's just a matter of style. IMO, it's better to put as much as can be put inside the Page namespace, and we shouldn't treat references differently compared to, say, sizing templates. [[User:Prospectprospekt|prospectprospekt]] ([[User talk:Prospectprospekt|talk]]) 22:38, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

== WS-EXport broke? ==

Apologies for raising as people probably already know, it seems that WS Export is hanging (tested on LA and EN). Others [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T392768 reporting the same at Phabricator]. [[User:JimKillock|JimKillock]] ([[User talk:JimKillock|talk]]) 16:09, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:Do you mean using the Download button ? I have had problems with that - I thought that it was just my poor internet connection - but find that if I try several times, eventually it works. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 15:10, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:: Aside from the slowness, it actually breaks every once in a while and needs to be restarted; due to scrapers. — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 16:52, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

== [[Index:Life, Studies and Works of Benjamin West.djvu]] not loading properly ==

I've added an index through (what I thought was) the normal process, but it isn't correctly loading the pages and says &quot;Error:Invalid Interval.&quot; I haven't done this in a while, so maybe I forgot something, but wanted to ask because I'm lost. [[User:Packer1028|Packer1028]] ([[User talk:Packer1028|talk]]) 02:29, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

:Purged and should be fixed. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:38, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
: (This is a known issue with file caching.) — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 05:19, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks to both of you! [[User:Packer1028|Packer1028]] ([[User talk:Packer1028|talk]]) 16:06, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2025-20 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2025-W20&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/20|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia URL Shortener|&quot;Get shortened URL&quot;]] link on the sidebar now includes a [[phab:T393309|QR code]]. Wikimedia site users can now use it by scanning or downloading it to quickly share and access shared content from Wikimedia sites, conveniently.

'''Updates for editors'''
* The Wikimedia Foundation is working on a system called [[m:Edge Uniques|Edge Uniques]], which will enable [[w:en:A/B testing|A/B testing]], help protect against [[w:en:Denial-of-service attack|distributed denial-of-service attacks]] (DDoS attacks), and make it easier to understand how many visitors the Wikimedia sites have. This is to help more efficiently build tools which help readers, and make it easier for readers to find what they are looking for. Tech News has [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/16|previously written about this]]. The deployment will be gradual. Some might see the Edge Uniques cookie the week of 19 May. You can discuss this on the [[m:Talk:Edge Uniques|talk page]].
* Starting May 19, 2025, Event organisers in wikis with the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CampaignEvents|CampaignEvents extension]] enabled can use [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Event Center/Registration|Event Registration]] in the project namespace (e.g., Wikipedia namespace, Wikidata namespace). With this change, communities don't need admins to use the feature. However, wikis that don't want this change can remove and add the permitted namespaces at [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/CampaignEvents]].
* The Wikipedia project now has a {{int:project-localized-name-group-wikipedia/en}} in [[d:Q36720|Nupe]] ([[w:nup:|&lt;code&gt;w:nup:&lt;/code&gt;]]). This is a language primarily spoken in the North Central region of Nigeria. Speakers of this language are invited to contribute to [[w:nup:Tatacin feregi|new Wikipedia]].
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]].

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Developers can now access pre-parsed Dutch Wikipedia, amongst others (English, German, French, Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese) through the [https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/docs/snapshot/#structured-contents-snapshot-bundle-info-beta Structured Contents snapshots (beta)]. The content includes parsed Wikipedia abstracts, descriptions, main images, infoboxes, article sections, and references.
* The &lt;code dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;/page/data-parsoid&lt;/code&gt; REST API endpoint is no longer in use and will be deprecated. It is [[phab:T393557|scheduled to be turned off]] on June 7, 2025.
* [[File:Octicons-sync.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.45/wmf.1|MediaWiki]]

'''In depth'''
* The [https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/News/2025_Cloud_VPS_VXLAN_IPv6_migration IPv6 support] is a newly introduced Cloud virtual network that significantly boosts Wikimedia platforms' scalability, security, and readiness for the future. If you are a technical contributor eager to learn more, check out [https://techblog.wikimedia.org/2025/05/06/wikimedia-cloud-vps-ipv6-support/ this blog post] for an in-depth look at the journey to IPv6.

'''Meetings and events'''
* The 2nd edition of 2025 of [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Afrika Baraza|Afrika Baraza]], a virtual platform for African Wikimedians to connect, will take place on [https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1747328400 May 15 at 17:00 UTC]. This edition will focus on discussions regarding [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2025-2026|Wikimedia Annual planning and progress]].
* The [[m:Special:MyLanguage/MENA Connect Community Call|MENA Connect Community Call]], a virtual meeting for [[w:en:Middle East and North Africa|MENA]] Wikimedians to connect, will take place on [https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1747501200 May 17 at 17:00 UTC]. You can [[m:Event:MENA Connect (Wiki_Diwan) APP Call|register now]] to attend.

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/20|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2025-W20&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 22:37, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:UOzurumba (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=28714188 --&gt;

== FYI: Wikisource: Preserving the Past for the Future ==

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2025/05/13/wikisource-preserving-the-past-for-the-future/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
*Who is Nanteza Divine Gabriella? I don’t recognize the name. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:11, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:* [[User:DivineGaby]] [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 20:53, 14 May 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9iho6co68ir7rmw2tn9hnvfrw7tmh7z</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Travels in the Interior Districts of Africa. Volume II.pdf/473</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4839402</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132074</id>
      <parentid>15108290</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:05:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* Not proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132074</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="658" sha1="t6ye4hy80wp2btsog8zpor0yax6rkni" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{block right|align=center|''&quot;Government House,&lt;br&gt;Sierra Leone'', 10''th December'', 1811.}}

{{sc|My Lord}},&lt;br&gt;
&quot;With reference to my letter in of the 8th of March 1810, communicating having engaged a person to go search, and ascertain the fate of the late Mr. Mungo Park; I have the honor to communicate to Your Lordship, that this person returned to Senegal on the 1st of September; but I am concerned to state that his information confirms the various reports of Mr. Park's death. 

&quot;I have enclosed a copy of the Journal of the person whom I sent, which was kept in Arabic, and has been translated into English by a person resident in Senegal.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t6ye4hy80wp2btsog8zpor0yax6rkni</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Travels in the Interior Districts of Africa. Volume II.pdf/474</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4839409</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132077</id>
      <parentid>15108314</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:06:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15132077</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="358" sha1="dxly75u2tu8x6asxeabo1ir1wcro2jy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;[234]&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;Isaaco has been paid the promised reward, which I hope will be approved by your Lordship.

      I have the honour to be,

             My LORD,
           Your Lordship's 
                 most obedient 
                   humble Servant,
              C. W. MAXWELL.
                 Governor.&quot;


''To the Right Honourable&lt;br&gt;The Earl of Liverpool.''&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dxly75u2tu8x6asxeabo1ir1wcro2jy</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pirates of Venus.pdf/33</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4839585</id>
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      <id>15132692</id>
      <parentid>15121931</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:26:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>2406:3400:21C:58D0:3394:1E3:65B4:461E</ip>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132692</origin>
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      <text bytes="966" sha1="ea1if2772qwn2rd273zn7g23tms6rv1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|''Chapter Two''}}

{{c|{{sc|Off for Mars}}}}

{{di|A}}{{uc|s}} I set my ship down in the sheltered cove along the shore of desolate {{SIC|Gaudalupe|Guadalupe}} a trifle over four hours after I left Tarzana, the little Mexican steamer I had chartered to trans­port my men, materials, and supplies from the mainland rode peacefully at anchor in the tiny harbor, while on the shore, waiting to welcome me, were grouped the laborers, mechanics, and assistants who had worked with such whole-­hearted loyalty for long months in preparation for this day. Towering head and shoulders
above the others loomed Jimmy Welsh, the only American among them.

I taxied in close to shore and moored the ship to a buoy, while the men launched a dory and rowed out to get me. I had been absent less than a week, most of which had been spent in Guaymas awaiting the expected letter from Tarzana, but so exuberantly did they greet me,
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{{c|{{sc|Off for Mars}}}}

{{di|A}}{{uc|s}} I set my ship down in the sheltered cove along the shore of desolate {{SIC|Gaudalupe|Guadalupe}} a trifle over four hours after I left Tarzana, the little Mexican steamer I had chartered to trans­port my men, materials, and supplies from the mainland rode peacefully at anchor in the tiny harbor, while on the shore, waiting to welcome me, were grouped the laborers, mechanics, and assistants who had worked with such whole-­hearted loyalty for long months in preparation for this day. Towering head and shoulders
above the others loomed Jimmy Welsh, the only American among them.

I taxied in close to shore and moored the ship to a buoy, while the men launched a dory and rowed out to get me. I had been absent less than a week, most of which had been spent in Guaymas awaiting the expected letter from Tarzana, but so exuberantly did they greet me,
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{{c|{{sc|Off for Mars}}}}

{{di|A}}{{uc|s}} I set my ship down in the sheltered cove along the shore of desolate {{SIC|Gaudalupe|Guadalupe}} a trifle over four hours after I left Tarzana, the little Mexican steamer I had chartered to trans­port my men, materials, and supplies from the mainland rode peacefully at anchor in the tiny harbor, while on the shore, waiting to welcome me, were grouped the laborers, mechanics, and assistants who had worked with such whole-­hearted loyalty for long months in preparation for this day. Towering head and shoulders
above the others loomed Jimmy Welsh, the only American among them.

I taxied in close to shore and moored the ship to a buoy, while the men launched a dory and rowed out to get me. I had been absent less than a week, most of which had been spent in Guaymas awaiting the expected letter from Tarzana, but so exuberantly did they greet me,&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sm|27}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Perhaps the warmth of their greeting may have been enhanced by a desire to conceal their true feelings. We had been together constantly for months, warm friendships had sprung up between us, and tonight we were to separate with little likelihood that they and I should ever meet again. This was to be my last day on earth; after today I should be as dead to them as though three feet of earth cov­ered my inanimate corpse.

It is possible that my own sentiments col­ored my interpretation of theirs, for I am frank to confess that I had been apprehending this last moment as the most difficult of the whole adventure. I have come in contact with the peoples of many countries, but I recall none with more lovable qualities than Mexicans who have not been contaminated by too close contactwith the intolerance and commercialism of Americans. And then there was Jimmy Welsh! It was going to be like parting with a brother&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu/16</title>
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      <text bytes="1501" sha1="seo8vo4cugufhoe11cs266pz5oa54bw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;Sauce4561&quot; /&gt;{{rh|viii|INTRODUCTION|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hyphenated word end|tured|nurtured}} in him under those warm, bright skies. In his story entitled &quot;In Bad Company&quot; he has vividly described the romantic little town that was the home of his childhood. The stern but just judge of that tale is more or less the prototype of his own father. The elder Korolenko was distinguished for an impeccable honesty of practice rare in an official of those times; consequently, when he died in 1870, he left his widow and five children without the slightest means of support. Thanks, however, to the energy of his heroic mother, Vladimir was enabled at seventeen to enter the School of Technology in Petrograd.

Then followed three years of struggle to combine his schooling with the necessity for earning a living, during which Korolenko himself says that he does not know how he managed to escape starvation. Even a cheap dinner of eighteen copecks or nine cents was such a luxury to him in those days that he only treated himself to it six or seven times during the course of one whole year.

In 1874 the young student went to Moscow with ten hard-earned roubles in his pocket and entered the Petrovski Academy, but he was soon expelled from that seat of learning for presenting a petition from his fellow-students to the Director of the College. He returned to Petrograd where his family were now living, and he and his brother made a desperate attempt to support themselves and their brothers and sisters by proof-reading. The future&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu/141</title>
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PRODUCTION OF

[[File:Ryerson Press shield.png|center|80px]]

TORONTO, CANADA}}}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>The Shipwreck (Falconer, 1762)/The Shipwreck/Canto 3</title>
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 | title      = [[../../|The Shipwreck]]
 | author     = William Falconer
 | translator = 
 | section    = Canto III.
 | previous   = [[../Canto 2|The Shipwreck, Canto II.]]
 | next       = 
 | notes      = 
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu&quot;  from=53 to=70 /&gt;
{{smallrefs}}</text>
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    <title>Page:The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu/53</title>
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ARGUMENT.}}

{{hi|The mizen-mast being cleared away, the Ship veers before the wind—Appearance of the Island of Falconora—Excursion to the surrounding nations of Greece, &amp;c. famous in Antiquity—Athens—{{sc|Socrates—Plato—Aristides—Solon}}—Corinth—its Architecture—Present condition—Sparta—{{sc|Leonidas}}—Invasion of {{sc|Xerxes—Lycurgus—Epaminondas}}—Modern appearance—Parallel of ancient and modern Inhabitants—Arcadia—Its former happiness and fertility—Its present misery—Ithaca—{{sc|Ulysses}} and {{sc|Penelope}}—{{sc|Argos}} and {{sc|Mycenae}}—{{sc|Agamemnon}} and {{sc|Clytemnestra}}—Macronisi—Lemnos—{{sc|Vulcan}} and {{sc|Venus}}—Delos—{{sc|Apollo}} and {{sc|Diana}}—Troy—{{sc|Paris}} and {{sc|Helen}}—Seftos—{{sc|Leander}} and {{sc|Hero}}—Temple of {{sc|Apollo}} described—Parnassus—Helicon—The {{sc|Muses}}—Their Power and Happiness—Return to the Ship—Prodigious Tempest—Darkness—Rain—Meteors—Lightning—Thunder—Approach of Day—Discovery of Land—Ship brought broad side to the shore—Bowsprit, Fore-mast and main-top-mast carried away—Strikes a rock—Splits asunder—Fate of the Crew Appear.}}
{{dhr}}
{{ppoem|start=open|end=follow|{{di|N}}{{uc|ow}} from the side the cumbrous ruins clear,
The falling prow at last began to veer:
&quot;Square, fore and aft, the yards! the Master cries,
&quot;While round before th' enlarging&lt;ref&gt;The wind is said to enlarge when it veers from the side towards the stern, which it consequently must as the Ship veers before it.&lt;/ref&gt; wind she flies,
&quot;You Timoneers! her motion close attend, {{pline|5|r}}
&quot;For, on your steerage, all our lives depend:}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}{{continues|&quot;So,}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Works of J. W. von Goethe, Volume 8.djvu/325</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15133586</id>
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      <text bytes="1752" sha1="lf4khnijvmhhp3f56r8pye614fx4r2r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Lflum&quot; /&gt;{{rh||EGMONT|299}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the king, in which through life thou hast confided,
the friendship of the regent, which, thou may'st confess
it, was akin to love,—have these suddenly vanished,
like a meteor of the night, and left thee alone upon thy
gloomy path? Will not Orange, at the head of thy
friends, contrive some daring scheme? Will not the
people assemble, and with gathering might attempt
the rescue of their faithful friend?

Ye walls, which thus gird me round, separate me
not from the well-intentioned zeal of so many kindly
souls. And may the courage with which my glance
was wont to inspire them now return again from their
hearts to mine. Yes! they assemble in thousands! they
come! they stand beside me! their pious wish rises
urgently to heaven, and implores a miracle; and if
no angel stoops for my deliverance, I see them grasp
eagerly their lance and sword. The gates are forced,
the bolts are riven, the walls fall beneath their conquering hands, and Egmont advances, joyously, to
hail the freedom of the rising morn. How many well-known faces receive me with loud acclaim! O Clara!
wert thou a man I should see thee here the very first,
and thank thee for that which it is galling to owe even
to a king—liberty.

{{c|{{sc|Scene III.}}—''Clara's House.''}}

{{sc|Clara.}} (''enters from her chamber with a lamp and a glass of water; she places the glass upon the table and steps to the window'') Brackenburg, is it you? What
noise was that? No one yet? No one! I will set
the lamp in the window, that he may see that I am
still awake, that I still watch for him. He promised
me tidings. Tidings? horrible certainty!—Egmont
condemned!—what tribunal has the right to summon
him?—And they dare to condemn him!—Does the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Works of J. W. von Goethe, Volume 8.djvu/330</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4840604</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133589</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:42:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      <minor />
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      <text bytes="1872" sha1="haxmx1j1wa5dtc96j1enksut4dy578h" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Lflum&quot; /&gt;{{rh|304|EGMONT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{sc|Brackenburg.}} Share hope with the living! Pause
on the brink of the precipice, cast one glance into the
gulf below, and then look back on us.

{{sc|Clara.}} I have conquered; call me not back to the
struggle.

{{sc|Brackenburg.}} Thou art stunned; enveloped in
night, thou seekest the abyss. Every light is not yet
extinguished, yet many days!—

{{sc|Clara.}} Alas! Alas! Cruelly thou dost rend the
veil from before mine eyes. Yes, the day will dawn!
Despite its misty shroud it needs must dawn. Timidly
the burgher gazes from his window, night leaves behind an ebon speck; he looks, and the scaffold looms
fearfully in the morning light. With reawakened
anguish the desecrated image of the Saviour lifts to
the Father its imploring eyes. The sun veils his
beams, he will not mark the hero’s death-hour. Slowly
the fingers go their round—one hour strikes after
another—hold! Now is the time. The thought of
the morning scares me into the grave. (''She goes to the window as if to look out, and drinks secretly.'')

{{sc|Brackenburg.}} Clara! Clara!

{{sc|Clara.}} (''goes to the table and drinks water'') Here is
the remainder. I invite thee not to follow me. Do
as thou wilt: farewell. Extinguish this lamp silently
and without delay; I am going to rest. Steal quietly
away, close the door after thee. Be still! Wake not
my mother! Go, save thyself, if thou wouldst not be
taken for my murderer.

{{right|[''Exit.''}}

{{sc|Brackenburg.}} She leaves me for the last time as
she has ever done. What human soul could conceive
how cruelly she lacerates the heart that loves her.
She leaves me to myself, leaves me to choose between
life and death, and both are alike hateful to me. To
die alone! Weep, ye tender souls! Fate has no
sadder doom than mine. She shares with me the
death-potion, yet sends me from her side! She draws&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Works of J. W. von Goethe, Volume 8.djvu/331</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4840606</id>
    <revision>
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      <text bytes="1557" sha1="ipvls5o8w8y3qc39qpcnlk6x48dmrse" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Lflum&quot; /&gt;{{rh||EGMONT|305}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;me after her, yet thrusts me back into life! Oh,
Egmont, how enviable a lot falls to thee! She goes
before thee! The crown of victory from her hand is
thine, she brings all heaven to meet thee!—And shall
I follow? Again to stand aloof? To carry the inextinguishable jealousy even to yon distant realms?
Earth is no longer a tarrying place for thee, and hell
and heaven both offer equal torture. Now welcome
to the wretched the dread hand of annihilation.

{{right|[''Exit.''}}

{{right|[''The scene remains some time unchanged. Music sounds, indicating'' {{sc|Clara's}} ''death; the lamp, which'' {{sc|Brackenburg}} ''had forgotten to extinguish, flares up once or twice, and then suddenly expires. The scene changes to''}}

{{c|{{sc|Scene IV.}}—''A Prison.''}}

{{sc|Egmont}} ''is discovered sleeping on a couch. A rustling of keys is heard; the door opens; servants enter with torches;'' {{sc|Ferdinand}} ''and'' {{sc|Silva}} ''follow, accompanied by soldiers;'' {{sc|Egmont}} ''starts from his sleep.''

{{sc|Egmont.}} Who are ye that thus rudely banish
slumber from my eyes? What mean these vague
and insolent glances? Why this fearful procession?
With what dream of horror come ye to delude my half-awakened soul?

{{sc|Silva.}} The duke sends us to announce your sentence.

{{sc|Egmont.}} Do you also bring the headsman who is
to execute it?

{{sc|Silva.}} Listen, and you will know the doom that
awaits you.

{{sc|Egmont.}} It is in keeping with the rest of your
infamous proceedings. Hatched in night and in night&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Works of J. W. von Goethe, Volume 8.djvu/332</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4840607</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133592</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:43:35Z</timestamp>
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        <id>8435</id>
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      <minor />
      <origin>15133592</origin>
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      <text bytes="1897" sha1="cjc8yyy6gteze1psg4k1slpkhglmpfn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Lflum&quot; /&gt;{{rh|306|EGMONT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;achieved, so would this audacious act of injustice
shroud itself from observation!—Step boldly forth,
thou who dost bear the sword concealed beneath thy
mantle; here is my head, the freest ever severed by
tyranny from the trunk.

{{sc|Silva.}} You err! The righteous judges who have
condemned you will not conceal their sentence from
the light of day.

{{sc|Egmont.}} Then does their audacity exceed all imagination and belief.

{{sc|Silva.}} (''takes the sentence from an attendant, unfolds it, and reads'') &quot;In the king’s name, and invested
by his Majesty with authority to judge all his subjects
of whatever rank, not excepting the knights of the
Golden Fleece, we declare—&quot;

{{sc|Egmont.}} Can the king transfer that authority?

{{sc|Silva.}} &quot;We declare, after a strict and legal investigation, thee, Henry, Count Egmont, Prince of Gaure,
guilty of high treason, and pronounce thy sentence:—
That at early dawn thou be led from this prison to the
market-place, and that there, in sight of the people, and
as a warning to all traitors, thou with the sword be
brought from life to death. Given at Brussels.&quot; (''Date and year so indistinctly read as to be imperfectly heard by the audience.'') &quot;Ferdinand, Duke of Alva, President
of the Tribunal of Twelve.&quot; Thou knowest now thy
doom. Brief time remains for the impending stroke,
to arrange thy affairs, and to take leave of thy friends.

{{right|[''Exit'' {{sc|Silva}} ''with followers.'' {{sc|Ferdinand}} ''remains with two torch-bearers. The stage is dimly lighted.''}}

{{sc|Egmont.}} (''stands for a time as if buried in thought, and allows'' {{sc|Silva}} ''to retire without looking round. He imagines himself alone, and, on raising his eyes, beholds Alva's son'') Thou tarriest here? Wouldst thou by
thy presence augment my amazement, my horror?
Wouldst thou carry to thy father the welcome tidings&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Works of J. W. von Goethe, Volume 8.djvu/340</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
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      <text bytes="1854" sha1="qcmi46c40gdj98stjua8yiy1e8q8r5j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Lflum&quot; /&gt;{{rh|314|EGMONT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{sc|Ferdinand.}} Oh, let me linger yet a moment!

{{sc|Egmont.}} No leave-taking, my friend.

{{right|[''He accompanies'' {{sc|Ferdinand}} ''to the door, and then tears himself away;'' {{sc|Ferdinand,}} ''overwhelmed with grief, hastily retires.''}}

{{sc|Egmont.}} Hostile man! Thou didst not think thou
would render me this service through thy son. He
has been the means of relieving my mind from the
pressure of care and sorrow, from fear and every anxious feeling. Gently, yet urgently, nature claims her
final tribute. 'Tis past!—’Tis resolved! And the
reflections which, in the suspense of last night, kept
me wakeful on my couch, now lull my senses to repose
with invincible certainty. (''He seats himself upon the
couch; music.'') Sweet sleep! Like the purest happiness, thou comest most willingly, uninvited, unsought.
Thou dost loosen the knots of earnest thoughts, dost
mingle all images of joy and of sorrow; unimpeded the
circle of inner harmony flows on, and, wrapped in fond
delusion, we sink away and cease to be.

{{right|[''He sleeps; music accompanies his slumber. Behind his couch the wall appears to open and discovers a brilliant apparition. Freedom in a celestial garb, surrounded by a glory, reposes on a cloud. Her features are those of'' {{sc|Clara,}} ''and she inclines towards the sleeping hero. Her countenance betokens compassion, she seems to lament his fate. Quickly she recovers herself, and with an encouraging gesture exhibits the symbols of freedom, the bundle of arrows, with the staff and cap. She encourages him to be of good cheer, and while she signifies to him that his death will secure the freedom of the provinces, she hails him as a conqueror, and extends to him a laurel crown. As the wreath approaches his head,'' {{sc|Egmont}} ''moves like one asleep, and reclines''}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
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      <text bytes="1854" sha1="l1gllebyldc32gfahi2epjedveduyrw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Lflum&quot; /&gt;{{rh|314|EGMONT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{sc|Ferdinand.}} Oh, let me linger yet a moment!

{{sc|Egmont.}} No leave-taking, my friend.

{{right|[''He accompanies'' {{sc|Ferdinand}} ''to the door, and then tears himself away;'' {{sc|Ferdinand,}} ''overwhelmed with grief, hastily retires.''}}

{{sc|Egmont.}} Hostile man! Thou didst not think thou
would render me this service through thy son. He
has been the means of relieving my mind from the
pressure of care and sorrow, from fear and every anxious feeling. Gently, yet urgently, nature claims her
final tribute. 'Tis past!—’Tis resolved! And the
reflections which, in the suspense of last night, kept
me wakeful on my couch, now lull my senses to repose
with invincible certainty. (''He seats himself upon the couch; music.'') Sweet sleep! Like the purest happiness, thou comest most willingly, uninvited, unsought.
Thou dost loosen the knots of earnest thoughts, dost
mingle all images of joy and of sorrow; unimpeded the
circle of inner harmony flows on, and, wrapped in fond
delusion, we sink away and cease to be.

{{right|[''He sleeps; music accompanies his slumber. Behind his couch the wall appears to open and discovers a brilliant apparition. Freedom in a celestial garb, surrounded by a glory, reposes on a cloud. Her features are those of'' {{sc|Clara,}} ''and she inclines towards the sleeping hero. Her countenance betokens compassion, she seems to lament his fate. Quickly she recovers herself, and with an encouraging gesture exhibits the symbols of freedom, the bundle of arrows, with the staff and cap. She encourages him to be of good cheer, and while she signifies to him that his death will secure the freedom of the provinces, she hails him as a conqueror, and extends to him a laurel crown. As the wreath approaches his head,'' {{sc|Egmont}} ''moves like one asleep, and reclines''}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Works of J. W. von Goethe, Volume 8.djvu/342</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4840637</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133587</id>
      <parentid>15112086</parentid>
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      <text bytes="689" sha1="sm5l3u5pdgruz1i0ercw9fz1ybm3bct" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Lflum&quot; /&gt;{{rh|316|EGMONT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ranks of war, and environed by the threatening forms
of death; to feel, with double zest, the energy of life.
(''Drums.'')

The foe closes round on every side! Swords are
flashing; courage, friends! Behind are your parents,
your wives, your children! (''Pointing to the guard.'')

And these are impelled by the word of their leader,
not by their own free will. Protect your homes! And
to save those who are most dear to you, be ready to
follow my example, and to fall with joy.

{{right|[''Drums. As he advances through the guards towards the door in the background the curtain falls. The music joins in, and the scene closes with a symphony of victory.''}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;references /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>User:Xaxafrad/Sandbox</title>
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      </contributor>
      <comment>2nd TOC...testing {{TOC row}} templates</comment>
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      <text bytes="2912" sha1="p9er9vmkfiolgr5w1207jndnctslsc7" xml:space="preserve">Source: [[Page:The Urantia Book, 1st Edition.djvu/13]]

{{nop}}

{{ph/leveled|level=1|Contents of the Book}}

{{nop}}

{{nop}}

{{ph/leveled|level=3|PART I. [[The Urantia Book/Part 1|THE CENTRAL AND SUPERUNIVERSES]]}}


{{TOC begin}}
{{TOC row 1-1-1||||{{sc|Page}}}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|{{left|{{sc|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword|Foreword]]}}}}||1}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|I.|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword#section1|Deity and Divinity]]|2}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|II.|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword#section2|God]]|3}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|III.|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword#section3|The First Source and Center]]|4}}
{{TOC row 1-1-1||{{em}}The Seven Absolute}}
{{TOC row 1-1-1||{{em}}Reality}}
{{TOC row 1-1-1||{{em}}Concept of the I AM}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|IV.|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword#section4|Universe Reality]]|6}}
{{TOC row 1-1-1||{{em}}Paradise}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|V.|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword#section5|Personality Realities]]|8}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|VI.|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword#section6|Energy and Pattern]]|9}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|VII.|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword#section7|The Supreme Being]]|10}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|VIII.|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword#section8|God the Sevenfold]]|11}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|IX.|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword#section9|God the Ultimate]]|12}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|X.|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword#section10|God the Absolute]]|13}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|XII.|[[The Urantia Book/Foreword#section12|The Trinities]]|15}}
{{TOC row 1-1-1||{{em}}Acknowledgment}}

{{nop}}

{{TOC row 1-dot-1|{{left|1. {{sc|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 1|The Universal Father]]}}}}||21}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|1.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 1#section1|The Father's Name]]|22}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|2.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 1#section2|The Reality of God]]|23}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|3.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 1#section3|God is a Universal Spirit]]|25}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|4.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 1#section4|The Mystery of God]]|26}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|5.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 1#section5|Personality of the Universal Father]]|27}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|6.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 1#section6|Personality in the Universe]]|29}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|7.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 1#section7|Spiritual Value of the Personality Concept]]|31}}

{{nop}}

{{TOC row 1-dot-1|{{left|2. {{sc|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 2|The Nature of God]]}}}}||33}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|1.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 2#section1|The Infinity of God]]|33}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|2.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 2#section2|The Father's Eternal Perfection]]|35}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|3.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 2#section3|Justice and Righteousness]]|36}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|4.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 2#section4|The Divine Mercy]]|38}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|5.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 2#section5|The Love of God]]|38}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|6.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 2#section6|The Goodness of God]]|40}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|7.|[[The Urantia Book/Paper 2#section7|Divine Truth and Beauty]]|42}}
{{TOC end}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/56</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4840955</id>
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      <id>15133838</id>
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      <text bytes="1803" sha1="mal2pwpn7eawzdm5g73smle0i3rws90" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;ShahenWasHere&quot; /&gt;{{rh|42|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;making heavy inroads upon Murphy's trade and developing into a formidable rival of the Murphy establishment. Then, in partnership with John Chisum and Tunstall, McSween opened a bank in one end of his store, of which Chisum was president, Tunstall vice-president, and himself secretary, treasurer, and general manager. With bank and store on a prosperous basis, McSween felt that
at last he was on the high road to fortune.

But Sir Galahad was riding serenely for a fall. Since his acts had been open and aboveboard, contravened no moral or legal code, and had the imprimatur of his own conscience, he was blind to their sinister effect upon Murphy. He had sent Murphy's hirelings to prison. He had exposed his dishonesty. He had set himself up as a rival merchant. He had allied himself with Chisum.
As a lawyer, he continued zealously to guard Chisum's interests under Murphy's very nose. He had organized a powerful financial combination which was bound to react unfavourably, if not disastrously, on Murphy's business. But in his unsophistication and childlike faith in the inherent goodness of men, he did not realize, and
was not capable of realizing, that his course had inspired Murphy with bitterness and deadly hatred and must eventually drive that overlord of the mountains to plans of retaliation and revenge. He remained unconscious of the rising danger. Wolves were dogging his footsteps unseen in the underbrush, but he pursued his heedless way whistling a careless tune.

Came now the matter of the Fritz will to add the final twist to an intricately tangled situation. Colonel Emil. Fritz had been Murphy's partner in the sutler's store at Fort Stanton. He had later bought a ranch a few miles below Lincoln on the Bonito, where he lived prosperously&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Index:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf</title>
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    <title>Index:Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010 (ASP 2010-7 qp).pdf</title>
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  <page>
    <title>Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
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      <comment>remove second-hand template no longer applicable</comment>
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      <text bytes="545" sha1="k1zhg4qq2xhc4e2l0cmo9k2h4xdu8gi" xml:space="preserve">{{delete|Extracts of The Lives of the Twelve Caesars}}
{{header
 | title    = Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians
 | author   = Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus
 | section  = 
 | previous = 
 | next     = 
 | notes    = Translated by Alexander Thomson &amp; T. Forester
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Lives of Eminent Rhetoricians.djvu&quot; from=1 to=7 /&gt;

==Footnotes==
{{smallrefs}}

[[Category:Ancient biographies]]
[[Category:Collections of biographies]]
[[Category:Works originally in Latin]]
[[la:De viris illustribus (Suetonius)/De grammaticis et rhetoribus#Rhetoribus]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Proclamation 10886.pdf/1</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131575</id>
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      <minor />
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      <text bytes="3859" sha1="faouij37ejzr0rb71prs4sn16xpt55b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;KINGDM76&quot; /&gt;{{EOheader|pagenum=8327|volume=90|number=18|dayofweek=Wednesday|month=January|day=29|year=2025}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Proctitle|number=10886|month=January|day=20|year=2025|title=Declaring a National Emergency at the Southern Border of the United States}}

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby proclaim:

America’s sovereignty is under attack. Our southern border is overrun by cartels, criminal gangs, known terrorists, human traffickers, smugglers, unvetted military-age males from foreign adversaries, and illicit narcotics that harm Americans, including America.

This invasion has caused widespread chaos and suffering in our country over the last 4 years. It has led to the horrific and inexcusable murders of many innocent American citizens, including women and children, at the hands of illegal aliens. Foreign criminal gangs and cartels have begun seizing control of parts of cities, attacking our most vulnerable citizens, and terrorizing Americans beyond the control of local law enforcement. Cartels control vast territories just south of our southern border, effectively controlling who can and cannot travel to the United States from Mexico. Hundreds of thousands of Americans have tragically died from drug overdoses because of the illicit narcotics that have flowed across the southern border.

This assault on the American people and the integrity of America’s sovereign borders represents a grave threat to our Nation.

Because of the gravity and emergency of this present danger and imminent threat, it is necessary for the Armed Forces to take all appropriate action to assist the Department of Homeland Security in obtaining full operational control of the southern border.

To protect the security and safety of United States citizens, to protect each of the States against invasion, and to uphold my duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, it is my responsibility as President to ensure that the illegal entry of aliens into the United States via the southern border be immediately and entirely stopped.

As Commander in Chief, I have no more solemn duty than to protect the American people.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including sections [[United States Code/Title 50/Chapter 34/Subchapter II#§ 1621. Declaration of national emergency by President; publication in Federal Register; effect on other laws; superseding legislation|201]] and [[United States Code/Title 50/Chapter 34/Subchapter III#§ 1631. Declaration of national emergency by Executive order; authority; publication in Federal Register; transmittal to Congress|301]] of the [[National Emergencies Act]] (50 U.S.C. 1601 ''et seq.''), hereby declare that a national emergency exists at the southern border of the United States, and that [[United States Code/Title 10/Subtitle E/Part II/Chapter 1209#§ 12302. Ready Reserve|section 12302 of title 10, United States Code]], is invoked and made available, according to its terms, to the Secretaries of the military departments concerned, subject to the direction of the Secretary of Defense. To provide additional authority to the Department of Defense to support the Federal Government’s response to the emergency at the southern border, I hereby declare that this emergency requires use of the Armed Forces and, in accordance with section 301 of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1631), that the construction authority provided in {{lps |link=United States Code/Title 10/Subtitle A/Part IV/Chapter 169/Subchapter I#§ 2808. Construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency|lq= |pre=section 2808 of |post=title 10, United States Code |rq=,}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{EOfooter}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Photoplay/Volume 36/Issue 3</title>
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      <text bytes="1610" sha1="8gm52ncj0ghca66lz398cnzfpht3xx9" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = [[Photoplay]]
 | author     = 
 | translator = 
 | section    = August 1929 (Volume 36, No. 3)
 | previous   = [[../Issue 2/|July]]
 | next       = [[../Issue 4/|September]]
 | notes      = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Photoplay (1929-08).pdf&quot; include=&quot;1&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;Photoplay (1929-08).pdf&quot; include=&quot;5&quot; /&gt;

{{dhr}}{{rule}}{{dhr}}
{{Auxiliary Table of Contents|title=Contents|width=50em|
&lt;!--
* [[/The Lawyer for the Defense/]], by [[Author:Muriel Babcock|Muriel Babcock]] (an article on Raymond Hackett).
* [[/Young King Leer/]], by [[Author:Leonard Hall|Leonard Hall]] (about the actor Chester Morris).
* [[/Silent Clothes for the Talkies/]], by [[Author:Janet Aster|Janet Aster]] (a short interview with clothes designer Charles LeMaire).
* [[/Princeton Goes Talkie/]], by [[Author:Jay O'Gee|Jay O'Gee]] (about the introduction of 'talkies' to Princeton).
* [[/Addresses of the Stars/]] (list of contact addresses for Hollywood stars).
--&gt;
* [[/New Pictures/]] (a selection of photographs of new and upcoming stars).
* [[/Revolution in Hollywood/]] by [[Author:Leonard Hall|Leonard Hall]] (about the coming of Broadway actors to Hollywood).
* [[/Ten Years Ago in Photoplay/]] (a look back at the August 1919 issue).

* There are several [[/Miscellaneous/]] small items (usually a captioned photograph) used to fill space.

* The issue includes many [[/Advertisements/]].
}}

{{dhr}}{{rule}}{{dhr}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;Photoplay (1929-08).pdf&quot; include=&quot;14&quot; onlysection=&quot;Photoplays Reviewed in the Shadow Stage This Issue&quot;/&gt;

[[Category:Works about film]]
[[Category:Periodicals, Film]]</text>
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{{c|{{xxl|{{blackletter|blackletter|Book Notices}}}}}}
{{rule|5em}}

Since the issue of the [[Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 2|April number]], another of Mr. [[Author:George Waldo Browne|G. Waldo Browne]]'s very interesting books for boys has been received. It is entitled &quot;The Woodranger,&quot; and is one of a series of five volumes named &quot;Woodranger Tales.&quot; Although each book is complete in itself, the same characters have been continued throughout the series. Like the &quot;Pathfinder Tales&quot; of [[Author:James Fenimore Cooper|J. Fenimore Cooper]], this series combines historical information relating to early pioneer days in America with interesting adventures in the backwoods.

The work is dedicated by Mr. Browne to his son Norman Stanley Browne. It is illustrated by L. J. Bridgman, and published by L. C. Page Co., of Boston, from whom it may be obtained. Pp. 312. Price $1.00. Cloth, boards.
{{rule|5em}}
&quot;Pensées Poètiques,&quot; by Miss [[Author:Lydia Agnes Edwards|Lydia A. Edwards]]. A booklet containing twenty-three pages of short poems upon various subjects. The work is without title page or index, and the printer's name does not appear upon it. From the personal nature of many of the verses and the style of make-up, it would appear that the work was issued for private circulation only.
{{rule|5em}}
&quot;The Physiography of Acadia,&quot; by Prof. [[Autor:Reginald Aldworth Daly|Reginald A. Daly]], printed for the Museum of Comparative Zoology at Harvard College, Geological Series, Vol. V., No. 3. 31 pps. with 11 plates. Prof. Daly concludes his work in the following summary:

{{fine block|&quot;The attempt has been made in the foregoing sketch to show first, that Acadian land forms may be described in terms of two topographical facets, each a nearly perfect plain of denundation, interrupted by incised valleys and surmounted by residual hills; secondly, that there is evidence to show that the denundation was essentially subaerial and referable to two chief cycles of geographic development. This evidence, though not so complete, is of the same quality as that used in the best extant treatments of similar facets in more southerly portions of the Appalachian system. Finally, the following table will summarize the very striking parallel which can be drawn between the physiographic features of Acadia and New England. The {{SIC|similiarity|similarity}} between the two provinces is being expressed in terms of a theory of development, but the homologies between the greater facets and the details of relief exist independently of theory. Extending the comparison to the central and southern Appalachians would prove this standpoint of physiographic history, and still further establish the organic unity of the whole system from Georgia to the Gulf of St. Lawrence.&quot;}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|214}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{c|{{xxl|{{blackletter|Book Notices}}}}}}
{{rule|5em}}

Since the issue of the [[Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 2|April number]], another of Mr. [[Author:George Waldo Browne|G. Waldo Browne]]'s very interesting books for boys has been received. It is entitled &quot;The Woodranger,&quot; and is one of a series of five volumes named &quot;Woodranger Tales.&quot; Although each book is complete in itself, the same characters have been continued throughout the series. Like the &quot;Pathfinder Tales&quot; of [[Author:James Fenimore Cooper|J. Fenimore Cooper]], this series combines historical information relating to early pioneer days in America with interesting adventures in the backwoods.

The work is dedicated by Mr. Browne to his son Norman Stanley Browne. It is illustrated by L. J. Bridgman, and published by L. C. Page Co., of Boston, from whom it may be obtained. Pp. 312. Price $1.00. Cloth, boards.
{{dhr}}{{rule|5em}}{{dhr}}
&quot;Pensées Poètiques,&quot; by Miss [[Author:Lydia Agnes Edwards|Lydia A. Edwards]]. A booklet containing twenty-three pages of short poems upon various subjects. The work is without title page or index, and the printer's name does not appear upon it. From the personal nature of many of the verses and the style of make-up, it would appear that the work was issued for private circulation only.
{{dhr}}{{rule|5em}}{{dhr}}
&quot;The Physiography of Acadia,&quot; by Prof. [[Autor:Reginald Aldworth Daly|Reginald A. Daly]], printed for the Museum of Comparative Zoology at Harvard College, Geological Series, Vol. V., No. 3. 31 pps. with 11 plates. Prof. Daly concludes his work in the following summary:

{{fine block|&quot;The attempt has been made in the foregoing sketch to show first, that Acadian land forms may be described in terms of two topographical facets, each a nearly perfect plain of denundation, interrupted by incised valleys and surmounted by residual hills; secondly, that there is evidence to show that the denundation was essentially subaerial and referable to two chief cycles of geographic development. This evidence, though not so complete, is of the same quality as that used in the best extant treatments of similar facets in more southerly portions of the Appalachian system. Finally, the following table will summarize the very striking parallel which can be drawn between the physiographic features of Acadia and New England. The {{SIC|similiarity|similarity}} between the two provinces is being expressed in terms of a theory of development, but the homologies between the greater facets and the details of relief exist independently of theory. Extending the comparison to the central and southern Appalachians would prove this standpoint of physiographic history, and still further establish the organic unity of the whole system from Georgia to the Gulf of St. Lawrence.&quot;}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|214}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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doubled over, the rattan loops pass alternately over and under the encircling hand a and then down to and round a plaited rattan band which is prevented from slipping by wedges. Below the plaited rattan band is a raised zone on which is carved in bold relief the following patterns:—

1.) A conventional flower ''buah andu'', (''Plukenetia corniculata'').

2.) On each side of this a rough geometrical design, three scrolls in a square.

3.) An intertwisted double loop pattern, ''eusilup'' (i.e. interlocking).

Twelve shirt buttons are let into the centre of (1), two are let into each scroll of (2) and there is one in each loop of (3). Below this zone is a circle of incised triangles, ''puchok rebong'' (i.e. young shoots of bamboo) and round the foot of the drum runs an incised single loop pattern. Height 18 cm.; diam. at top 13.4 cm.; diam. at bottom 20 cm.

Catalogue No. 58. Brooke Low collection.

The Sea-Dyaks of the Balau River and the Sibuyaus call this
instrument ''Ketubng''. I have seen specimens with a diaphragm
of ''Varanus'' skin. The performers on this instrument and the
Land-Dyak ''Gehong'' sat cross-legged on the ground, the drum
lying across one thigh and kept from slipping by the opposite
foot, and the diaphragm was beaten with the tips of the fingers and the palmar surface of one hand.

A Murut ''gendang'' is figured by Ling Roth (l. c. Vol. II p. 263).

3. Malay—''Gendang prang''.

(Plate III fig. 10, right hand specimen).

Double membrane drum formerly used in warfare, but now employed at festivals. It is almost cylindrical, hollow throughout and made of ''mirabou'' wood (''Afzelia bijnga''), it is slightly narrower in diameter at one end than at the other and its greatest diameter is across the middle. Both ends are closed with {{hws|dia|diameter}}&lt;noinclude&gt;

{{x-smaller|R. A. Soc., No 40, 1904.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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doubled over, the rattan loops pass alternately over and under the encircling hand a and then down to and round a plaited rattan band which is prevented from slipping by wedges. Below the plaited rattan band is a raised zone on which is carved in bold relief the following patterns:—

1.) A conventional flower ''buah andu'', (''Plukenetia corniculata'').

2.) On each side of this a rough geometrical design, three scrolls in a square.

3.) An intertwisted double loop pattern, ''eusilup'' (i.e. interlocking).

Twelve shirt buttons are let into the centre of (1), two are let into each scroll of (2) and there is one in each loop of (3). Below this zone is a circle of incised triangles, ''puchok rebong'' (i.e. young shoots of bamboo) and round the foot of the drum runs an incised single loop pattern. Height 18 cm.; diam. at top 13.4 cm.; diam. at bottom 20 cm.

Catalogue No. 58. Brooke Low collection.

The Sea-Dyaks of the Balau River and the Sibuyaus call this
instrument ''Ketubng''. I have seen specimens with a diaphragm
of ''Varanus'' skin. The performers on this instrument and the
Land-Dyak ''Gehong'' sat cross-legged on the ground, the drum
lying across one thigh and kept from slipping by the opposite
foot, and the diaphragm was beaten with the tips of the fingers and the palmar surface of one hand.

A Murut ''gendang'' is figured by Ling Roth (l. c. Vol. II p. 263).

3. Malay—''Gendang prang''.

(Plate III fig. 10, right hand specimen).

Double membrane drum formerly used in warfare, but now employed at festivals. It is almost cylindrical, hollow throughout and made of ''mirabou'' wood (''Afzelia bijnga''), it is slightly narrower in diameter at one end than at the other and its greatest diameter is across the middle. Both ends are closed with {{hws|dia|phragms}}&lt;noinclude&gt;

{{x-smaller|R. A. Soc., No 40, 1904.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena</title>
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        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>+[[Category:Biographies]]; +[[Category:Non-fiction]]; +[[Category:Saint Helena]] using [[Help:Gadget-HotCat|HotCat]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="1453" sha1="d0aomhurk4pe2l3p1bseh03sbgxoc8n" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena
 | author      = Lucia Elizabeth Balcombe Abell
 | section     = 
 | previous    = 
 | next        = [[/Preface/]]
 | year        = 1844
 | notes       = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; include=8 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; include=9 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; include=11 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; include=12 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
{{Auxiliary Table of Contents|
*[[/Preface/]]
*[[/Contents|Table of Contents]]
*[[/Chapter 1|Chapter I]]
*[[/Chapter 2|Chapter II]]
*[[/Chapter 3|Chapter III]]
*[[/Chapter 4|Chapter IV]]
*[[/Chapter 5|Chapter V]]
*[[/Chapter 6|Chapter VI]]
*[[/Chapter 7|Chapter VII]]
*[[/Chapter 8|Chapter VIII]]
*[[/Chapter 9|Chapter IX]]
*[[/Chapter 10|Chapter X]]
*[[/Chapter 11|Chapter XI]]
*[[/Chapter 12|Chapter XII]]
*[[/Chapter 13|Chapter XIII]]
*[[/Chapter 14|Chapter XIV]]
*[[/Chapter 15|Chapter XV]]
*[[/Chapter 16|Chapter XVI]]
*[[/Chapter 17|Chapter XVII]]
*[[/Chapter 18|Chapter XVIII]]
*[[/Chapter 19|Chapter XIX]]
*[[/Chapter 20|Chapter XX]]
*[[/Chapter 21|Chapter XXI]]
*[[/Subscribers/]]
}}

{{PD/US|pubyear=1884|deathyear=1871}}
{{authority control}}

[[Category:Biographies]]
[[Category:Non-fiction]]
[[Category:Saint Helena]]</text>
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      <comment>−[[Category:Biographies]]; +[[Category:Memoirs]] using [[Help:Gadget-HotCat|HotCat]]</comment>
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 | title       = Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena
 | author      = Lucia Elizabeth Balcombe Abell
 | section     = 
 | previous    = 
 | next        = [[/Preface/]]
 | year        = 1844
 | portal      = 
 | notes       = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; include=8 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; include=9 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; include=11 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; include=12 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
{{Auxiliary Table of Contents|
*[[/Preface/]]
*[[/Contents|Table of Contents]]
*[[/Chapter 1|Chapter I]]
*[[/Chapter 2|Chapter II]]
*[[/Chapter 3|Chapter III]]
*[[/Chapter 4|Chapter IV]]
*[[/Chapter 5|Chapter V]]
*[[/Chapter 6|Chapter VI]]
*[[/Chapter 7|Chapter VII]]
*[[/Chapter 8|Chapter VIII]]
*[[/Chapter 9|Chapter IX]]
*[[/Chapter 10|Chapter X]]
*[[/Chapter 11|Chapter XI]]
*[[/Chapter 12|Chapter XII]]
*[[/Chapter 13|Chapter XIII]]
*[[/Chapter 14|Chapter XIV]]
*[[/Chapter 15|Chapter XV]]
*[[/Chapter 16|Chapter XVI]]
*[[/Chapter 17|Chapter XVII]]
*[[/Chapter 18|Chapter XVIII]]
*[[/Chapter 19|Chapter XIX]]
*[[/Chapter 20|Chapter XX]]
*[[/Chapter 21|Chapter XXI]]
*[[/Subscribers/]]
}}

{{PD/US|pubyear=1884|deathyear=1871}}
{{authority control}}

[[Category:Non-fiction]]
[[Category:Memoirs]]
[[Category:Saint Helena]]</text>
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    <title>Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena/Chapter 1</title>
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 | title       = Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena
 | author      = Lucia Elizabeth Balcombe Abell
 | section     = Chapter I
 | previous    = [[../Contents/]]
 | next        = [[../Chapter 2|Chapter II]]
 | year        = 1844
 | notes       = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; include=25-28,31-32 /&gt;
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    <title>The Beaux Stratagem/Act 4 Scene 1</title>
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 | title      = [[../]]
 | author     = George Farquhar
 | translator = 
 | section    = Act IV, Scene I.
 | previous   = [[../Act 3 Scene 3|Act III, Scene III]]
 | next       = [[../Act 5 Scene 1|Act V, Scene I]]
 | notes      = 
}}
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      <text bytes="4606" sha1="6me0llmhz9kc4xpcjxg9q99o3jz81v4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;KINGDM76&quot; /&gt;{{EOpageheader|pagenum=8328|volume=90|number=18|dayofweek=Wednesday|month=January|day=29|year=2025}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{lpe |link=United States Code/Title 10/Subtitle A/Part IV/Chapter 169/Subchapter I#§ 2808. Construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency|lq= |pre=section 2808 of |post=title 10, United States Code |rq=,}} is invoked and made available, according to its terms, to the Secretary of Defense and, at the discretion of the Secretary of Defense, to the Secretaries of the military departments. I hereby direct as follows:

{{EOsection|1|title=Deployment of Personnel and Resources}} The Secretary of Defense, or the Secretary of each relevant military department, as appropriate and consistent with applicable law, shall order as many units or members of the Armed Forces, including the Ready Reserve and the National Guard, as the Secretary of Defense determines to be appropriate to support the activities of the Secretary of Homeland Security in obtaining complete operational control of the southern border of the United States. The Secretary of Defense shall further take all appropriate action to facilitate the operational needs of the Secretary of Homeland Security along the southern border, including through the provision of appropriate detention space, transportation (including aircraft), and other logistics services in support of civilian-controlled law enforcement operations.

{{EOsection|2|title=Additional Physical Barriers}} The Secretaries of Defense and Homeland Security shall immediately take all appropriate action, consistent with law, including [[United States Code/Title 10/Subtitle A/Part IV/Chapter 131#§ 2214. Transfer of funds: procedure and limitations|10 U.S.C. 2214]], to construct additional physical barriers along the southern border. To the extent possible, the Secretaries of Defense and Homeland Security shall coordinate with any Governor of a State that is willing to assist with the deployment of any physical infrastructure to improve operational security at the southern border.

{{EOsection|3|title=Unmanned Aerial Systems}} The Secretary of Transportation and the Federal Communications Commission shall, consistent with applicable law, consider waiving all applicable Federal Aviation Administration and Federal Communications Commission regulations or policies, respectively, that restrict the Department of Homeland Security’s ability to counter unmanned aerial systems within 5 miles of the southern border.

{{EOsection|4|title=Revision of Policies and Strategies}} The Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Attorney General, shall take all appropriate action, consistent with law, to prioritize the impedance and denial of the unauthorized physical entry of aliens across the southern border of the United States, and to ensure that use of force policies prioritize the safety and security of Department of Homeland Security personnel and of members of the Armed Forces.

{{EOsection|5|title=Revocation}} [[Proclamation 10142]] of January 20, 2021 (Termination of Emergency With Respect to the Southern Border of the United States and Redirection of Funds Diverted to Border Wall Construction), is hereby revoked.

{{EOsection|6|title=Reporting Requirement}} {{EOsubsection|6|a}} Within 30 days of the date of this proclamation, the Secretary of Defense shall submit to the President, through the Homeland Security Advisor, a report outlining all actions taken to fulfill the requirements and objectives of this proclamation; and

{{EOsubsection|6|b}} Within 90 days of the date of this proclamation, the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of Homeland Security shall submit a joint report to the President about the conditions at the southern border of the United States and any recommendations regarding additional actions that may be necessary to obtain complete operational control of the southern border, including whether to invoke the [[Insurrection Act of 1807]].

{{EOsection|7|title=General Provisions}} {{EOsubsection|7|a}} Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

{{EOsubsection|7|a|i|content=the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or}}

{{EOsubsection|7|a|ii|content=the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.}}

{{EOsubsection|7|b}} This proclamation shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.
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    <title>Page:Proclamation 10887.pdf/1</title>
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      <text bytes="2211" sha1="6nyvmrta8ztl7sk9n6ljakxwqawimqj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;KINGDM76&quot; /&gt;{{EOheader2|pagenum=8331|volume=90|number=18|dayofweek=Wednesday|month=January|day=29|year=2025}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Proctitle|number=10887|month=January|day=20|year=2025|title=Granting Pardons and Commutation of Sentences for Certain Offenses Relating to the Events at or Near the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021}}

This proclamation ends a grave national injustice that has been perpetrated upon the American people over the last four years and begins a process of national reconciliation.

Acting pursuant to the grant of authority in [[Constitution of the United States of America#Section 2 2|Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution of the United States]], I do hereby:

{{EOsubsection||a}} commute the sentences of the following individuals convicted of offenses related to events that occurred at or near the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021, to time served as of January 20, 2025:

* Stewart Rhodes

* Kelly Meggs

* Kenneth Harrelson

* Thomas Caldwell

* Jessica Watkins

* Roberto Minuta

* Edward Vallejo

* David Moerschel

* Joseph Hackett

* Ethan Nordean

* Joseph Biggs

* Zachary Rehl

* Dominic Pezzola

* Jeremy Bertino

{{EOsubsection||b}} grant a full, complete and unconditional pardon to all other individuals convicted of offenses related to events that occurred at or near the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021;

The Attorney General shall administer and effectuate the immediate issuance of certificates of pardon to all individuals described in section (b) above, and shall ensure that all individuals convicted of offenses related to events that occurred at or near the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021, who are currently held in prison are released immediately. The Bureau of Prisons shall immediately implement all instructions from the Department of Justice regarding this directive.

I further direct the Attorney General to pursue dismissal with prejudice to the government of all pending indictments against individuals for their conduct related to the events at or near the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021. The Bureau of Prisons shall immediately implement all instructions from the Department of Justice regarding this directive.
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{{c|CHAPTER VIII}}
{{C|{{asc|THIRTEEN TO ONE}}}}

{{uc|{{di|B}}ill Roberts}} didn't amount to much. He was just a nobody, people said. He was a stocky, square-cut, homely little man of middle age, illiterate, commonplace, poorly dressed. He used to ride an old bay mule, and Lincoln County folks could hardly conceal their smiles when he jogged along the road, kicking the patient beast in the ribs with his heels, his elbows flapping up and down. He kept to himself, never had much to say, had few friends. The question of his courage was never discussed; nobody thought Bill Roberts worth discussing from any angle.

But Bill Roberts had courage; not the ordinary courage of ordinary men, but the courage that nothing can daunt and nothing conquer and that does not know the meaning of fear. Bill Roberts's courage rose above his ignorance and homeliness, the ridiculousness of his sorry figure on his old bay mule, above life, above death, to heights of supreme heroism. His battle at Blazer's sawmill in the Mescalero Apache Indian reservation with odds of thirteen to one against him, and the thirteen the most desperate professional fighters of the McSween faction, including the redoubtable Billy the Kid, is rated in the Southwest as one of the gamest single-handed fights in the history of the frontier. He lost his life in the fight but death did not rob him of victory.

Roberts was a Texan. He had served for years in the&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|92}}
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      <text bytes="1035" sha1="n8au0dfqxzd8r1x7lq8ryefvbayjeuj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Victuallers&quot; /&gt;{{class block/s|chapter}}{{rvh2|113|THE SHERIFF'S MORNING WALK|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|113}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;half-a-dozen followers at Chisum’s South Spring Ranch in Pecos Valley, Deputy Sheriff Marion Turner with a large posse surrounded the place. A desultory fire was kept up on both sides for hours. At last one of the ranch hands rode away under a shower of bullets and brought back twenty-five cowboys from one of Chisum’s camps a few miles distant. When these reinforcements came galloping over a hill, Turner and his men got on their horses and hurried back to Roswell. The Kid and his men left for Lincoln next day. 

The Turner posse trailed the Kid at a safe distance all the way to Lincoln, making no effort to come to close quarters, and rode into town an hour or so after the Kid and his followers had gone into quarters in the McSween home. The bloodless little skirmish at Chisum’s headquarters ranch served as a curtain-raiser to the big battle that practically ended the Lincoln County war.
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{{c|{{asc|THE THREE-DAYS BATTLE }}}}

{{uc|{{dropinitial|T}}he}} hush of a July night lay upon Lincoln. The dark, silent town seemed asleep under the peaceful stars. 

But behind the bastion-like walls of the Murphy store warlike preparations were toward. Within the deep seclusion of Murphy’s old office Sheriff Peppin held council with Jimmy Dolan, Marion Turner, John Kinney, Andy Boyle, Old Man Pearce, and other leaders of the Murphy faction. 

“We've got the Kid at last,” declared Peppin. “There ain’t no way for him to get away. We'll get him this time, dead or alive.” 

The Kid, with half-a-dozer other McSween partisans, fresh from the fight at Chisum’s South Spring Ranch, had ridden in a few hours before and taken refuge in the McSween residence. Deputy Sheriff Turner, with twenty-five men, having trailed him all the way from the Pecos, had arrived in Lincoln a little later. 

“With Turner's posse, we've got sixty men in all,” said Peppin. “Nincteen Americans, the rest Mexicans. All good fighters. The Kid ain’t got no idea how many of us he's got to fight. He thinks he'll have easy picking. But he’s in a trap. We'll spring it on him.” 

“There's enough of us to rush the McSween house,” advised Dolan.

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{{c|{{asc|THE THREE-DAYS BATTLE }}}}

{{uc|{{dropinitial|T}}he}} hush of a July night lay upon Lincoln. The dark, silent town seemed asleep under the peaceful stars. 

But behind the bastion-like walls of the Murphy store warlike preparations were toward. Within the deep seclusion of Murphy’s old office Sheriff Peppin held council with Jimmy Dolan, Marion Turner, John Kinney, Andy Boyle, Old Man Pearce, and other leaders of the Murphy faction. 

“We've got the Kid at last,” declared Peppin. “There ain’t no way for him to get away. We'll get him this time, dead or alive.” 

The Kid, with half-a-dozer other McSween partisans, fresh from the fight at Chisum’s South Spring Ranch, had ridden in a few hours before and taken refuge in the McSween residence. Deputy Sheriff Turner, with twenty-five men, having trailed him all the way from the Pecos, had arrived in Lincoln a little later. 

“With Turner's posse, we've got sixty men in all,” said Peppin. “Nincteen Americans, the rest Mexicans. All good fighters. The Kid ain’t got no idea how many of us he's got to fight. He thinks he'll have easy picking. But he’s in a trap. We'll spring it on him.” 

“There's enough of us to rush the McSween house,” advised Dolan.

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|114}}
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      <text bytes="2151" sha1="kr53v7v3t8s8u99dfwv4g7anrdvb1z0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|90|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{block center/s}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot; style=&quot;font-size:83%&quot;
|+ '''The Fourteen Launches of the Atlas-Centaur for the Surveyor Program (1963–1968)'''
|-
! Launch Date 
! Mission 
! Vehicle 
! Payload 
! Objective
|-
| 27 November 1963 || R&amp;D (one-burn) || AC-2 || No payload || Demonstrate separation.
|-
| 30 June 1964 || R&amp;D (one-burn) || AC-3 || No payload || Demonstrate jettison of insulation panels and nose fairing. Failed.
|-
| 11 December 1964 || R&amp;D (two-burn) || AC-4 || 2,070 lb || Demonstrate coast-phase propellant control.
|-
| 2 March 1965 || R&amp;D (one-burn) || AC-5 || 1,411 lb || Demonstrate operational readiness. Failed.
|-
| 11 August 1965 || R&amp;D (one-burn) || AC-6 || 2,100 lb || Demonstrate operational readiness in direct ascent.
|-
| 7 April 1966 || R&amp;D (one-burn) || AC-8 || 1,730 lb || Demonstrate coast-phase propellant control. Failed.
|-
| 30 May 1966 || Surveyor 1 (one-burn) || AC-10 || 2,193 lb || First operational Atlas-Centaur flight. First controlled unpiloted landing on the Moon. First pictures from the Moon.
|-
| 20 September 1966 || Surveyor 2 || AC-7 || 2,204 lb || Second soft landing on the Moon. Postlanding TV survey.
|-
| 26 October 1966 || R&amp;D (two-burn simulated lunar transfer) || AC-9 || 1,740 lb || First engine restart of LH&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;/LO&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; engines. Centaur operational for two-burn missions.
|-
| 17 April 1967 || Surveyor 3 (two-burn) || AC-12 || 2,281 lb || Perform soft landing within Apollo landing zone. Manipulate lunar surface with soil sampler.
|-
| 14 July 1967 || Surveyor 4 (two-burn) || AC-11 || 2,295 lb || Perform soft landing at Sinus Medii. Conduct vernier engine experiment.
|-
| 8 September 1967 || Surveyor 5 (two-burn) || AC-13 || 2,217 lb || Perform soft landing on Mare Tranquillitatis. Determine chemical elements in soil.
|-
| 7 November 1967 || Surveyor 6 (two-burn) || AC-14 || 2,220 lb || Perform soft landing at Sinus Medii.
|-
| 7 January 1968 || Surveyor 7 (two-burn) || AC-15 || 2,289 lb || Perform soft landing at Tycho. Last Surveyor mission.
|-
|}
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    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/19</title>
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    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/9</title>
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      <text bytes="1424" sha1="kfsi2cydydw3f0t6xzhbylwq70mzky4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;The first regular production of HE in English was by The Theatre Guild on January 9, 1922, at the Garrick Theatre, New York. The original cast was as follows:

Tilly Musical Clowns . . Philip Leigh
Polly . . Edgar Stehli
Briquet, Manager of the Circus . . Ernest Cossart
Mancini, Consuelo’s Father . . Frank Reicher
Zinida, a Lion Tamer . . Helen Westley
Angelica Trapeze Performers . . Martha Bryan Allen
Estelle . . Helen Sheridan
Francois . . Edwin R. Wolfe
HE . . Richard Bennett
Jackson, a Clown . . Henry Travers
Consuelo, the Equestrian Tango Queen . . Margalo Gillmore
Alfred Bezano, a Bareback Rider . . John Rutherford
Baron Regnard . . Louuis Calvert
A Gentleman . . John Blair
Wardrobe Lady . . Kathryn Wilson
Usher . . Charles Cheltenham
Conductor . . Edwin R. Wolfe
Pierre . . Philip Loeb
A Sword Dancer . . Renee Wilde
Ballet Master . . Oliver Grymes
Ballet Girls . . Vera Tompkins
Anne Tonnetti
Marguerite Wernimont
Frances Ryan
Actresses in Circus Pantomime . . Adele St. Maur
Sara Enright
Thomas, a Strong Man . . Dante Voltaire
A Snake Charmer . . Joan Clement
A Contortionist . . Richard Coolidge
A Riding Master . . Kenneth Lawton
A Juggler . . Francis G. Sadtler
Acrobats . . Sears Taylor
Luigi Belastro

{{c|''Stage Manager'', Philip Loeb {{em|2}} ''Ass’t Stage Manager'', Oliver Grymes

''Produced under the direction of'' ROBERT MILTON

''Settings and Costumes by'' LEE SIMONSON}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|v}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/5</title>
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      <text bytes="1525" sha1="hzi187epd3r8plrcz9b3465n00v6eem" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;The Navigators&quot; /&gt;{{right|{{larger|'''HEATHROW REPORT''' &lt;nowiki&gt;|&lt;/nowiki&gt; '''iii'''}}}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{xx-larger|{{color|#3a638b|'''Contents'''}}}}

{{larger|'''Foreword ''v'''''}}&lt;br&gt;

{{larger|'''Summary ''1'''''}}&lt;br&gt;
The incident ''1''&lt;br&gt;
The response ''1''&lt;br&gt;
The cause ''1''&lt;br&gt;
Legal proceedings ''2''&lt;br&gt;
Lessons to be learned ''3''&lt;br&gt;

{{larger|'''Introduction ''4'''''}}&lt;br&gt;
The project ''4''&lt;br&gt;
The NATM stations ''7''&lt;br&gt;
The processes ''11''&lt;br&gt;

{{larger|'''The trial tunnel and subsequent preconstruction developments ''12'''''}}&lt;br&gt;
The trial tunnel ''12''&lt;br&gt;

Post-trial developments ''12''&lt;br&gt;

The tender stage ''14''&lt;br&gt;

{{larger|'''The construction phase ''15'''''}}&lt;br&gt;
Settlement control ''15''&lt;br&gt;
NATM consultant ''15''&lt;br&gt;
NATM design ''16''&lt;br&gt;
NATM monitoring ''19''&lt;br&gt;
Construction management organisation ''24''&lt;br&gt;
Developments affecting the BAA site supervisory team ''26''&lt;br&gt;
The start of CTA tunnelling ''27''&lt;br&gt;
Early problems with the concourse tunnel ''28''&lt;br&gt;
Problems under Camborne House ''31''&lt;br&gt;
Further concourse tunnelling ''37''&lt;br&gt;
The start of further tunnelling ‘north’ ''38''&lt;br&gt;
Events in the closing days ''39''&lt;br&gt;
Accelerating failure ''41''&lt;br&gt;
Day shift, Thursday 20 October 1994 ''42''&lt;br&gt;

{{larger|'''The incident ''44'''''}}&lt;br&gt;
Night shift, Thursday 20 October 1994 ''44''&lt;br&gt;
Friday 21 October 1994 ''47''&lt;br&gt;

{{larger|'''Emergency response and damage ''49'''''}}
&lt;br&gt;

{{larger|'''HSE investigation and related actions ''54'''''}}&lt;br&gt;
Initial considerations ''54''&lt;br&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/129</title>
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      <id>15131449</id>
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      <text bytes="1761" sha1="dlp3x6ixv0crtu8vrtgx5p4jr6fqqw5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|115|THE THREE-DAYS’ BATTLE|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|115}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;“No use in that,” cautioned Kinney. “We got the Kid dead to rights without takin’ no chances.”
 
“The Kid's a wise hombre,” reflected Peppin. “If we propose that he surrender, I believe, under the circumstances, he’ll listen to reason.”
 
“That’s right,” cut in Old Man Pearce. “He’s liable to get some of us if we shoot it out with him.”
 
But how to open negotiations with the Kid was a problem. The man who attempted a parley might acquire a bullet.
 
“I think I know how,” said Turner.
 
With Dolan and Kinney, Turner slipped into the bottom land along the Bonito River and crept up behind the McSween barn. There, standing sheltered from possible shots, he set up a lusty hailing cry. To this halloo, the Kid responded through a crack in the kitchen door.
 
“We've got you surrounded, Kid,” shouted Turner. “If you make a fight, we'll kill you all to the last man. If you'll surrender, we'll promise you won't be hurt.”
 
Something that sounded suspiciously like laughter came from the crack in the kitchen door.
 
“It’s no joke, Kid. You better surrender.”
 
“Surrender to a bunch of hounds like you? What six kinds of a fool do you think I am?”
 
“We’ll guarantee you protection.”
 
“I’ll stay where I am and protect myself. If you want me, come and get me. Go back to your gang and tell ’em to turn on the fireworks. We're ready for vou.”
 
Out of the east end of town came a rumble of horses’ hoofs, a chorus of zipping yells, scattered shots. Turner and his companions did not wait to learn the cause but, breaking short the conference, rejoined Sheriff Peppin. Faction Leader McSween had ridden into town from his&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/130</title>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:07:20Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1765" sha1="jltlhbgr71krvtir5dftm654mhx8pyn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|116|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|116}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;camp on the Ruidoso with a tail of thirty-five Mexican fighting men at his back.
 
When Turner and his posse rode in from Roswell, Martin Chavez, deputy under Shenff Copeland and a McSween partisan, had spurred hard for McSween’s camp to carry the news of the Kid’s perilous predicament. Forthwith, McSween and his henchmen had mounted in haste and come to Lincoln on the run. This strong reinforcement 
materially altered the situation, which thereafter did not look so dark. Under cover of the night, McSween and several of his Mexican allies slipped into the McSween home without drawing enemy fire and joined the Kid, who welcomed them with no little enthusiasm.
 
The Murphy forces held the Murphy store and hotel. The buildings were in the west end of town within fifty yards of the McSween house, the hotel on the same side of the street, the store on the other. High on the hillsides on the south side of the cañon, Murphy sharpshooters commanded the entire village.
 
The McSween men under Chavez garrisoned the Montaña and Patron houses in the east end of Lincoln. Charlie Bowdre, George Coe, and Hendry Brown were posted in the McSween store, a little to the west of the McSween house. With McSween in his home were Billy the Kid, Tom O’Folliard, Jim French, Doc Skurlock, Harvey Morris, Francisco Semora, Ignacio Gonzales, Vincente Romero, José Chavez y Chavez, and Ygenio Salazar. Three women also were in the house—Mrs. McSween, Mrs. Elizabeth Shield, her sister, and Mrs. 
Ealy, wife of the Presbyterian minister whom McSween had brought out to Lincoln from the East and who held services every Sunday in the McSween store.
 
With the long vendetta about to break in murderous&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/131</title>
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      <text bytes="1770" sha1="kwo94quksfhkqtiuvpnazzdji98oxin" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|117|THE THREE-DAYS’ BATTLE|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|117}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;battle climax, McSween still leaned upon the Lord for divine intervention that would avert the tragedy that was now inevitable. He spent the night in prayer. On his knees in his room, he talked with God as if face to face and pleaded for the miracle. “Touch, O Lord, the hearts of our enemies with Thy goodness and mercy. {{...}} Guide them in the better way. {{...}} Send down Thy blessing of peace.”
 
When Billy the Kid and the others gathered for breakfast next morning they were in high spirits and ready for battle. With witty sallies and gay bantering talk they inspected their rifles and six-shooters. Mrs. McSween, Mrs. Shield, and Mrs. Ealy bustled between kitchen and dining room loading the table with steaming dishes. McSween entered with his Bible in his hand.
 
There was in his appearance the solemnity and austerity of an ancient prophet. His tall, spare form was erect with the serene courage of one who fancies himself panoplied by angels. His face, pale from his sleepless vigil, shone with supreme and abiding faith. In his eyes was a look of apocalyptic vision as of one who sees beyond earthly horizons the loom of “opal towers and battlements adorned of living sapphire.” Taking his place at the head of the table, he bowed his head in his hand and said grace.
 
Came a crash of rifles from the Murphy clan shooting from the windows of the Murphy store and hotel. The balls thudded against the adobe walls of the McSween house and tore ragged holes through the window shutters, bursting the panes and scattering fragments of glass over the floor.
 
A look of pained surprise for an instant swept McSween’s face. He had prayed for peace. Bullets were his answer.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1710" sha1="fk470dfqyhbdbgaur4wkw88hxmayc4r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|118|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|118}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;“Where's your gun, Mr. McSween?” queried the Kid.
 
“I have no gun,” replied McSween. “I have never owned one. I have never fired one in my life.” 

“But you'll lend a hand and do some fighting now?”
 
“God forbid.”
 
“But we're in for it good and plenty. We've got to fight for our lives. Every man will count.”
 
“I would rather die than stain my soul with the blood of my fellow man,” replied McSween with deep solemnity. “I have no need to commit that great sin. God is my refuge and strength. He will protect me.”
 
A cynical smile twisted a corner of the Kid’s mouth.
 
“All right, governor,” he returned good-naturedly. “Go ahead and trust in the Lord. The rest of us’ll trust in our six-shooters.”
 
He threw open the shutters, useless for defense. Through the open windows, he and his men replied to the volleys of the enemy.
 
The battle developed quickly all along the line. While the Murphy forces hidden in store and hotel concentrated their fusillades on the McSween home, their sharpshooters, ranging along the hills at the south side of the canon, poured an incessant fire upon Chavez's men in the Montaña and Patron houses.
 
“Kind of a tame fight,” remarked the Kid as the day of random firing drew toward a close. “Those Murphy fellows stay under cover. I can’t get a good, square crack at anybody. We better sneak out of here to-night and join up with Chavez. Then we can chase the Murphy gang out of town.”
 
“We will stay where we are,” said McSween. “We must free our hearts of hatred and deadliness. ‘Vengeance is mine,’ saith the Lord. We must remain on the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fk470dfqyhbdbgaur4wkw88hxmayc4r</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/133</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4844707</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131668</id>
      <parentid>15123072</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:03:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SurprisedMewtwoFace</username>
        <id>2974010</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1748" sha1="9eta0u4bk4ljuuibzegovy76o2tatqs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;SurprisedMewtwoFace&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|119|THE THREE-DAYS’ BATTLE|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|119}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;defensive. I still have faith that God will put a stop to this sad affair before blood has been spilled.”
 
In view of McSween’s attitude, the Kid had apprehensions that the battle might lengthen into a siege. After darkness had fallen, he brought indoors two barrels of rain-water standing in the sheltered court. These would provide the little garrison with enough water for drinking and cooking purposes for a number of days.
 
McSween’s faith was strengthened and renewed when the fighting ceased for the night without loss of life on either side. It seemed to him a Heaven-given sign that his prayers had been heard. He returned thanks to God on his knees and went to bed beside his Bible.
 
Among the rocks on the steep hill that rose above the Montaña and Patron houses crawled Lucio Montoya and Charlie Crawford, crack riflemen of the Murphy faction. They settled into position side by side behind two huge boulders. Below them in the early morning sunlight lay the silent town, its long, winding street blocked and striped with the shadows of houses, trees, and fence-posts. 

“Not a soul in sight,” observed Crawford. “Town looks like nobody lived in it.” 

“All the people scared to come out,” replied Montoya.
 
A quarter of a mile away they could see the McSween house, its adobe stucco chipped and scarred by bullets. Smoke began to ascend from its chimney.
 
“McSween’s cooking breakfast.”
 
“''Si'', ''compadre''.”
 
“We're in a good spot. Ought to be able to pick off some of them Chavez fellers from here.”
 
“''Mira, amigo!''” Montoya’s voice rose scarcely above a whisper. 

Martin Chavez emerged from the Patron house and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A sketch of the social organization of the Nass River Indians (IA sketchofsocialor00sapi).pdf/11</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4844889</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131536</id>
      <parentid>15123794</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:23:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131536</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="812" sha1="fmlczbpox1fbjaaitfsdw7mtqpuetcl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|'''CONTENTS.'''}}

{{TOC begin|width=100%}}
{{TOC row r|3|{{x-smaller|PAGE}}}}
{{TOC row 2dot-1|Introduction|1}}
{{TOC row 2dot-1|Tribes and villages|3}}
{{TOC row 2dot-1|Phratries, clans, and crests|3}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|(1.)|Clans and crests of the ''k̯ɩtʼanwɩˊlⁱkc''|8}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|(2.)|Clans and crests of the {{Nisga'a missing}}|12}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|(3.)|Clans and crests of the {{Nisga'a missing}}|14}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|(4.)|Clans and crests of the {{Nisga'a missing}}|15}}
{{TOC row 1-dot-1|(5.)|Distribution of crests|17}}
{{TOC row 2dot-1|House names among the Nass River Indians|21}}
{{TOC row 2dot-1|Personal names of the ''k̯ɩtʼanwɩˊlⁱkc''|22}}
{{TOC row 2dot-1|Ceremonial dances|28}}
{{TOC row 2dot-1|Classes of society|28}}
{{TOC row 2dot-1|Phonetic key|29}}
{{TOC end}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A sketch of the social organization of the Nass River Indians (IA sketchofsocialor00sapi).pdf/41</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4844943</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131543</id>
      <parentid>15124007</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:26:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
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''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English be; softened form of p.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, ic. acoustically midway between English and p.
* ''pʽ'', surd » followed by aspiration; developed from p.

£, glottalized p, ie. p pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure,
release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal clasure; between
vowels # is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest B’.

m, as in English.

‘mt, % pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

w, as in English we.

', w pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

d, as in English do; softened form of &amp;
A 4 intermediate in articulation, ic. acoustically midway between English

and #.

#, surd é followed by aspiration; developed from 2.

f, glottalized £ (defined similarly to 8); between vowels it suggests d’.

n, as in English.

‘x, » pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

g, anterior palatal g, approximately as in English argue (including y-
element of 4); softened form of &amp;

k, intermediate in articulation, approximately like ¢ af English excsse
(including y-element of 2).

&amp;, surd % followed by aspiration; developed from &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to 4}; between vowels it suggests ie

4, as in English yes.

+», y pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

x, voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ch of German ich,

p as in English gu; softencd form of 2. ,

&quot; intermediate in articulation, i.c. acoustically midway between English

g and &amp;.

Bf, surd &amp; followed by aspiration; developed frem &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to $); between vowels it suggests g’,

gw, kw, k'*, Bw, (#*), labialized ee al g, &amp;, #, and 2 respectively.

x, ¥%, voiceless spirants corresponding in position to &amp;* and a.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:31:24Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
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''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p̓'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p̓'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

d, as in English do; softened form of &amp;
A 4 intermediate in articulation, ic. acoustically midway between English

and #.

#, surd é followed by aspiration; developed from 2.

f, glottalized £ (defined similarly to 8); between vowels it suggests d’.

n, as in English.

‘x, » pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

g, anterior palatal g, approximately as in English argue (including y-
element of 4); softened form of &amp;

k, intermediate in articulation, approximately like ¢ af English excsse
(including y-element of 2).

&amp;, surd % followed by aspiration; developed from &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to 4}; between vowels it suggests ie

4, as in English yes.

+», y pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

x, voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ch of German ich,

p as in English gu; softencd form of 2. ,

&quot; intermediate in articulation, i.c. acoustically midway between English

g and &amp;.

Bf, surd &amp; followed by aspiration; developed frem &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to $); between vowels it suggests g’,

gw, kw, k'*, Bw, (#*), labialized ee al g, &amp;, #, and 2 respectively.

x, ¥%, voiceless spirants corresponding in position to &amp;* and a.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15131586</id>
      <parentid>15131556</parentid>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
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''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p̓'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p̓'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t̓'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p̓''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''n'', ''nʼ'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

g, anterior palatal g, approximately as in English argue (including y-
element of 4); softened form of &amp;

k, intermediate in articulation, approximately like ¢ af English excsse
(including y-element of 2).

&amp;, surd % followed by aspiration; developed from &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to 4}; between vowels it suggests ie

4, as in English yes.

+», y pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

x, voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ch of German ich,

p as in English gu; softencd form of 2. ,

&quot; intermediate in articulation, i.c. acoustically midway between English

g and &amp;.

Bf, surd &amp; followed by aspiration; developed frem &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to $); between vowels it suggests g’,

gw, kw, k'*, Bw, (#*), labialized ee al g, &amp;, #, and 2 respectively.

x, ¥%, voiceless spirants corresponding in position to &amp;* and a.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131590</id>
      <parentid>15131586</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:59:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
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''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p̓'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p̓'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t̓'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p̓''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

g, anterior palatal g, approximately as in English argue (including y-
element of 4); softened form of &amp;

k, intermediate in articulation, approximately like ¢ af English excsse
(including y-element of 2).

&amp;, surd % followed by aspiration; developed from &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to 4}; between vowels it suggests ie

4, as in English yes.

+», y pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

x, voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ch of German ich,

p as in English gu; softencd form of 2. ,

&quot; intermediate in articulation, i.c. acoustically midway between English

g and &amp;.

Bf, surd &amp; followed by aspiration; developed frem &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to $); between vowels it suggests g’,

gw, kw, k'*, Bw, (#*), labialized ee al g, &amp;, #, and 2 respectively.

x, ¥%, voiceless spirants corresponding in position to &amp;* and a.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15131695</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
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''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p̓'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p̓'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t̓'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p̓''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''g&amp;#x32F;''
g, anterior palatal g, approximately as in English argue (including y-
element of 4); softened form of &amp;

k, intermediate in articulation, approximately like ¢ af English excsse
(including y-element of 2).

&amp;, surd % followed by aspiration; developed from &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to 4}; between vowels it suggests ie

4, as in English yes.

+», y pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

x, voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ch of German ich,

p as in English gu; softencd form of 2. ,

&quot; intermediate in articulation, i.c. acoustically midway between English

g and &amp;.

Bf, surd &amp; followed by aspiration; developed frem &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to $); between vowels it suggests g’,

gw, kw, k'*, Bw, (#*), labialized ee al g, &amp;, #, and 2 respectively.

x, ¥%, voiceless spirants corresponding in position to &amp;* and a.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2avfs34374kogau9ooi1jajqifae9is</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131697</id>
      <parentid>15131695</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:25:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131697</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3207" sha1="anm6v6c3bnh1x8fmioti5vzn5vwa1vx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{anchor|Phonetic Key}}{{sc|Phonetic Key.}}}}

''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p̓'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p̓'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t̓'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p̓''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''

k, intermediate in articulation, approximately like ¢ af English excsse
(including y-element of 2).

&amp;, surd % followed by aspiration; developed from &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to 4}; between vowels it suggests ie

4, as in English yes.

+», y pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

x, voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ch of German ich,

p as in English gu; softencd form of 2. ,

&quot; intermediate in articulation, i.c. acoustically midway between English

g and &amp;.

Bf, surd &amp; followed by aspiration; developed frem &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to $); between vowels it suggests g’,

gw, kw, k'*, Bw, (#*), labialized ee al g, &amp;, #, and 2 respectively.

x, ¥%, voiceless spirants corresponding in position to &amp;* and a.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>anm6v6c3bnh1x8fmioti5vzn5vwa1vx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131700</id>
      <parentid>15131697</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:29:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131700</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3290" sha1="sgpala58t2d5dwkqwfpgt2c924rt2u6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{anchor|Phonetic Key}}{{sc|Phonetic Key.}}}}

''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p&amp;#x313;'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''
* ''k&amp;#x32F;'', intermediate in articulation, approximately like ''c'' of English ''excuse'' (including ''y''-element of ''u'').
* ''k&amp;#x32F;ʽ'', surd ''k&amp;#x32F;'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k&amp;#x32F;''.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to 4}; between vowels it suggests ie

4, as in English yes.

+», y pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

x, voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ch of German ich,

p as in English gu; softencd form of 2. ,

&quot; intermediate in articulation, i.c. acoustically midway between English

g and &amp;.

Bf, surd &amp; followed by aspiration; developed frem &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to $); between vowels it suggests g’,

gw, kw, k'*, Bw, (#*), labialized ee al g, &amp;, #, and 2 respectively.

x, ¥%, voiceless spirants corresponding in position to &amp;* and a.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>sgpala58t2d5dwkqwfpgt2c924rt2u6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131897</id>
      <parentid>15131700</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:58:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131897</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3342" sha1="bs9zt1nzy17rdfonx8hq5fsgm45m02m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{anchor|Phonetic Key}}{{sc|Phonetic Key.}}}}

''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p&amp;#x313;'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''
* ''k&amp;#x32F;'', intermediate in articulation, approximately like ''c'' of English ''excuse'' (including ''y''-element of ''u'').
* ''k&amp;#x32F;ʽ'', surd ''k&amp;#x32F;'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;k&amp;x32F;'', glottalized ''k&amp;#x32F;'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g&amp;#x32F;''.

4, as in English yes.

+», y pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

x, voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ch of German ich,

p as in English gu; softencd form of 2. ,

&quot; intermediate in articulation, i.c. acoustically midway between English

g and &amp;.

Bf, surd &amp; followed by aspiration; developed frem &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to $); between vowels it suggests g’,

gw, kw, k'*, Bw, (#*), labialized ee al g, &amp;, #, and 2 respectively.

x, ¥%, voiceless spirants corresponding in position to &amp;* and a.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bs9zt1nzy17rdfonx8hq5fsgm45m02m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131898</id>
      <parentid>15131897</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:59:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131898</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3342" sha1="8cefwlq47xzouq39sk36rnvm88xli1v" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{anchor|Phonetic Key}}{{sc|Phonetic Key.}}}}

''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p&amp;#x313;'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''
* ''k&amp;#x32F;'', intermediate in articulation, approximately like ''c'' of English ''excuse'' (including ''y''-element of ''u'').
* ''k&amp;#x32F;ʽ'', surd ''k&amp;#x32F;'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;&amp;#x32F;'', glottalized ''k&amp;#x32F;'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g&amp;#x32F;''.

4, as in English yes.

+», y pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

x, voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ch of German ich,

p as in English gu; softencd form of 2. ,

&quot; intermediate in articulation, i.c. acoustically midway between English

g and &amp;.

Bf, surd &amp; followed by aspiration; developed frem &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to $); between vowels it suggests g’,

gw, kw, k'*, Bw, (#*), labialized ee al g, &amp;, #, and 2 respectively.

x, ¥%, voiceless spirants corresponding in position to &amp;* and a.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8cefwlq47xzouq39sk36rnvm88xli1v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131906</id>
      <parentid>15131898</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:03:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131906</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3406" sha1="7drvm2ctb4ert8dheb8qgecncj2dbdb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{anchor|Phonetic Key}}{{sc|Phonetic Key.}}}}

''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p&amp;#x313;'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''
* ''k&amp;#x32F;'', intermediate in articulation, approximately like ''c'' of English ''excuse'' (including ''y''-element of ''u'').
* ''k&amp;#x32F;ʽ'', surd ''k&amp;#x32F;'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;&amp;#x32F;'', glottalized ''k&amp;#x32F;'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''y'', as in English ''yes''.
* ''ʼy'', ''y'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''x&amp;#x32F;'', voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ''ch'' of German ''ich''.
* ''g'', as in English ''gun''; softened form of ''k.''
* ''k'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''g'' and ''k''.

Bf, surd &amp; followed by aspiration; developed frem &amp;.

&amp;, glottalized &amp; (defined similarly to $); between vowels it suggests g’,

gw, kw, k'*, Bw, (#*), labialized ee al g, &amp;, #, and 2 respectively.

x, ¥%, voiceless spirants corresponding in position to &amp;* and a.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7drvm2ctb4ert8dheb8qgecncj2dbdb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132159</id>
      <parentid>15131906</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:35:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132159</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3451" sha1="hjyl12z9pu1jc2vffjnsdf9uz4dbztw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{anchor|Phonetic Key}}{{sc|Phonetic Key.}}}}

''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p&amp;#x313;'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''
* ''k&amp;#x32F;'', intermediate in articulation, approximately like ''c'' of English ''excuse'' (including ''y''-element of ''u'').
* ''k&amp;#x32F;ʽ'', surd ''k&amp;#x32F;'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;&amp;#x32F;'', glottalized ''k&amp;#x32F;'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''y'', as in English ''yes''.
* ''ʼy'', ''y'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''x&amp;#x32F;'', voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ''ch'' of German ''ich''.
* ''g'', as in English ''gun''; softened form of ''k.''
* ''k'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''g'' and ''k''.
* ''kʽ'', surd ''k'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''k'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g’'',

gw, kw, k'*, Bw, (#*), labialized ee al g, &amp;, #, and 2 respectively.

x, ¥%, voiceless spirants corresponding in position to &amp;* and a.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hjyl12z9pu1jc2vffjnsdf9uz4dbztw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132269</id>
      <parentid>15132159</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:19:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132269</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3543" sha1="1eettb1oupjczufmvn47n2u5uw9id7z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{anchor|Phonetic Key}}{{sc|Phonetic Key.}}}}

''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p&amp;#x313;'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''
* ''k&amp;#x32F;'', intermediate in articulation, approximately like ''c'' of English ''excuse'' (including ''y''-element of ''u'').
* ''k&amp;#x32F;ʽ'', surd ''k&amp;#x32F;'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;&amp;#x32F;'', glottalized ''k&amp;#x32F;'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''y'', as in English ''yes''.
* ''ʼy'', ''y'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''x&amp;#x32F;'', voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ''ch'' of German ''ich''.
* ''g'', as in English ''gun''; softened form of ''k.''
* ''k'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''g'' and ''k''.
* ''kʽ'', surd ''k'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''k'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g’'',
* ''gw'', ''kw'', ''kʽᵘ'', ''k&amp;#x313;w'', (''k&amp;#x313;ᵘ''), labialized forms of ''g'', ''k'', ''kʽ'', and ''k&amp;#x313;'' respectively.
* ''x'', ''xᵘ'', voiceless spirants corresponding in position to ''kʽ'' and ''kʽᵘ''.

g, velar g; softened form of ¢.

@, intermediate in articulation, ie. acoustically midway between ¢ and
surd q@.
@, surd ¢ followed hy aspiration; developed from g.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1eettb1oupjczufmvn47n2u5uw9id7z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132275</id>
      <parentid>15132269</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:22:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132275</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
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''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2em}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p&amp;#x313;'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''
* ''k&amp;#x32F;'', intermediate in articulation, approximately like ''c'' of English ''excuse'' (including ''y''-element of ''u'').
* ''k&amp;#x32F;ʽ'', surd ''k&amp;#x32F;'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;&amp;#x32F;'', glottalized ''k&amp;#x32F;'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''y'', as in English ''yes''.
* ''ʼy'', ''y'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''x&amp;#x32F;'', voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ''ch'' of German ''ich''.
* ''g'', as in English ''gun''; softened form of ''k.''
* ''k'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''g'' and ''k''.
* ''kʽ'', surd ''k'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''k'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g’'',
* ''gw'', ''kw'', ''kʽᵘ'', ''k&amp;#x313;w'', (''k&amp;#x313;ᵘ''), labialized forms of ''g'', ''k'', ''kʽ'', and ''k&amp;#x313;'' respectively.
* ''x'', ''xᵘ'', voiceless spirants corresponding in position to ''kʽ'' and ''kʽᵘ''.
* ''g&amp;#x323;'', velar ''g''; softened form of ''q''.
* ''q'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between ''g&amp;#x323;'' and surd ''q''.
* ''qʽ'', surd ''q'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''q''.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6cx8xbr5y95snrd0kylnhektu16zzt0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132276</id>
      <parentid>15132275</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:23:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132276</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3592" sha1="8to1tir4g4w4sj4spbvov0cvlevk1qa" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{anchor|Phonetic Key}}{{sc|Phonetic Key.}}}}

''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p&amp;#x313;'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''
* ''k&amp;#x32F;'', intermediate in articulation, approximately like ''c'' of English ''excuse'' (including ''y''-element of ''u'').
* ''k&amp;#x32F;ʽ'', surd ''k&amp;#x32F;'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;&amp;#x32F;'', glottalized ''k&amp;#x32F;'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''y'', as in English ''yes''.
* ''ʼy'', ''y'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''x&amp;#x32F;'', voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ''ch'' of German ''ich''.
* ''g'', as in English ''gun''; softened form of ''k.''
* ''k'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''g'' and ''k''.
* ''kʽ'', surd ''k'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''k'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g’'',
* ''gw'', ''kw'', ''kʽᵘ'', ''k&amp;#x313;w'', (''k&amp;#x313;ᵘ''), labialized forms of ''g'', ''k'', ''kʽ'', and ''k&amp;#x313;'' respectively.
* ''x'', ''xᵘ'', voiceless spirants corresponding in position to ''kʽ'' and ''kʽᵘ''.
* ''g&amp;#x323;'', velar ''g''; softened form of ''q''.
* ''q'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between ''g&amp;#x323;'' and surd ''q''.
* ''qʽ'', surd ''q'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''q''.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8to1tir4g4w4sj4spbvov0cvlevk1qa</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132286</id>
      <parentid>15132276</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:24:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132286</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3625" sha1="fcfn46w43fyykjugugwkacc3uwf1pw8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{anchor|Phonetic Key}}{{sc|Phonetic Key.}}}}

''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2}}
* {{overfloat left|{{brace2|4|l}}}}''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2}}
* ''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p&amp;#x313;'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''
* ''k&amp;#x32F;'', intermediate in articulation, approximately like ''c'' of English ''excuse'' (including ''y''-element of ''u'').
* ''k&amp;#x32F;ʽ'', surd ''k&amp;#x32F;'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;&amp;#x32F;'', glottalized ''k&amp;#x32F;'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''y'', as in English ''yes''.
* ''ʼy'', ''y'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''x&amp;#x32F;'', voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ''ch'' of German ''ich''.
* ''g'', as in English ''gun''; softened form of ''k.''
* ''k'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''g'' and ''k''.
* ''kʽ'', surd ''k'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''k'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g’'',
* ''gw'', ''kw'', ''kʽᵘ'', ''k&amp;#x313;w'', (''k&amp;#x313;ᵘ''), labialized forms of ''g'', ''k'', ''kʽ'', and ''k&amp;#x313;'' respectively.
* ''x'', ''xᵘ'', voiceless spirants corresponding in position to ''kʽ'' and ''kʽᵘ''.
* ''g&amp;#x323;'', velar ''g''; softened form of ''q''.
* ''q'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between ''g&amp;#x323;'' and surd ''q''.
* ''qʽ'', surd ''q'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''q''.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132290</id>
      <parentid>15132286</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:25:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132290</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2}}
* {{overfloat left|{{brace2|4|l}}}}''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p&amp;#x313;'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* {{overfloat left|{{brace2|4|l}}}}''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* {{overfloat left|{{brace2|4|l}}}}''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''
* ''k&amp;#x32F;'', intermediate in articulation, approximately like ''c'' of English ''excuse'' (including ''y''-element of ''u'').
* ''k&amp;#x32F;ʽ'', surd ''k&amp;#x32F;'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;&amp;#x32F;'', glottalized ''k&amp;#x32F;'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''y'', as in English ''yes''.
* ''ʼy'', ''y'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''x&amp;#x32F;'', voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ''ch'' of German ''ich''.
* {{overfloat left|{{brace2|4|l}}}}''g'', as in English ''gun''; softened form of ''k.''
* ''k'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''g'' and ''k''.
* ''kʽ'', surd ''k'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''k'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g’'',
* ''gw'', ''kw'', ''kʽᵘ'', ''k&amp;#x313;w'', (''k&amp;#x313;ᵘ''), labialized forms of ''g'', ''k'', ''kʽ'', and ''k&amp;#x313;'' respectively.
* ''x'', ''xᵘ'', voiceless spirants corresponding in position to ''kʽ'' and ''kʽᵘ''.
* {{overfloat left|{{brace2|4|l}}}}''g&amp;#x323;'', velar ''g''; softened form of ''q''.
* ''q'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between ''g&amp;#x323;'' and surd ''q''.
* ''qʽ'', surd ''q'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''q''.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132301</id>
      <parentid>15132290</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:27:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132301</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3757" sha1="p33ws44llyoj70w57svdvml7ge9dw1m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{anchor|Phonetic Key}}{{sc|Phonetic Key.}}}}

''Vowels:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2}}
* ''a'', like ''a'' of German ''hat''. It often, in fact normally, is slightly palatalized, corresponding to ''a'' of French ''la''.
* ''ä'', like ''a'' of English ''hat''.
* ''α'', like ''u'' of English ''but''.
* ''e'', like ''e'' of French ''été''.
* ''ε'', like ''e'' of English ''men''.
* ''i'', like ''i'' of French ''fini''.
* ''ι'', like ''i'' of English ''it''.
* ''o'', like ''o'' of English ''note''.
* ''ɔ'', like ''o'' of German ''voll''.
* ''ω'', approximately like ''aw'' of English ''law''. It stands acoustically midway between ''a'' and ''ɔ''.
* ''u'', like ''ou'' of French ''bouche''.
* ''υ'', like ''u'' of English ''full''.
* ''ᵃ'', ''ᵉ'', ''ᵋ'', ''ⁱ'', ''ᵓ'', ''ᵒ'', ''ᵘ'',  are weakly articulated forms of ''a'', ''e'', ''ε'', ''i'', ''ɔ'', ''o'', ''u'' respectively. They generally occur as rearticulations of preceding fuller vowels.
{{plainlist/e}}


''Consonants:''

{{plainlist/s|indent=2}}
* {{overfloat left|{{brace2|4|l}}}}''b'', as in English ''be''; softened form of ''p''.
* ''p'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''b'' and ''p''.
* ''pʽ'', surd ''p'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''p''.
* ''p&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''p'', i.e. ''p'' pronounced with simultaneous glottal closure, release of oral closure being earlier than that of glottal closure; between vowels ''p&amp;#x313;'' is pronounced with less stress, so as to suggest ''bʼ''.
* ''m'', as in English.
* ''ʼm'', ''m'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''w'', as in English ''we''.
* ''ʼw'', ''w'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* {{overfloat left|{{brace2|4|l}}}}''d'', as in English ''do''; softened form of ''t''.
* ''t'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''d'' and ''t''.
* ''tʽ'', surd ''t'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''t''.
* ''t&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''t'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''dʼ''.
* ''n'', as in English.
* ''nʼ'', ''n'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* {{overfloat left|{{brace2|4|l}}}}''g&amp;#x32F;'', anterior palatal ''g'', approximately as in English ''argue'' (including ''y''-element of ''u''); softened form of ''k&amp;#x32F;''
* ''k&amp;#x32F;'', intermediate in articulation, approximately like ''c'' of English ''excuse'' (including ''y''-element of ''u'').
* ''k&amp;#x32F;ʽ'', surd ''k&amp;#x32F;'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;&amp;#x32F;'', glottalized ''k&amp;#x32F;'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g&amp;#x32F;''.
* ''y'', as in English ''yes''.
* ''ʼy'', ''y'' pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.
* ''x&amp;#x32F;'', voiceless anterior palatal spirant, like ''ch'' of German ''ich''.
* {{overfloat left|{{brace2|4|l}}}}''g'', as in English ''gun''; softened form of ''k.''
* ''k'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between English ''g'' and ''k''.
* ''kʽ'', surd ''k'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''k''.
* ''k&amp;#x313;'', glottalized ''k'' (defined similarly to ''p&amp;#x313;''); between vowels it suggests ''g’'',
* ''gw'', ''kw'', ''kʽᵘ'', ''k&amp;#x313;w'', (''k&amp;#x313;ᵘ''), labialized forms of ''g'', ''k'', ''kʽ'', and ''k&amp;#x313;'' respectively.
* ''x'', ''xᵘ'', voiceless spirants corresponding in position to ''kʽ'' and ''kʽᵘ''.
* {{overfloat left|{{brace2|4|l}}}}''g&amp;#x323;'', velar ''g''; softened form of ''q''.
* ''q'', intermediate in articulation, i.e. acoustically midway between ''g&amp;#x323;'' and surd ''q''.
* ''qʽ'', surd ''q'' followed by aspiration; developed from ''q''.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{plainlist/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>p33ws44llyoj70w57svdvml7ge9dw1m</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A sketch of the social organization of the Nass River Indians (IA sketchofsocialor00sapi).pdf/42</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4844944</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132299</id>
      <parentid>15123833</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:27:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beleg Âlt</username>
        <id>3101950</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132299</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1120" sha1="k8yjjj14m6wz7kq2fb18of5auxlzz01" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beleg Âlt&quot; /&gt;{{plainlist/s|indent=2}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;#, glottalized g (defined similarly to #); between vowels it suggests 2’.

y, voiced velar spirant corresponding in position to g, from which it is
developed.

g, voiceless velar spirant, approximately Itke ch of German ach.

aw, gw, g'%, dw yw, x*, labtalized forms of g, 9, @', ¢, y, and 4 respectively.

$, a8 in English so.

¢, acoustically midway between s and sh of English ship. s and ¢ are
variants of one sound.

dj, approximately 7 of English just, but verging towards dz,

is, fe, approximately like ts and ch of English hats and child respectively;
variants of one sound.

ts, te, plotulized forms of és and é¢ respectively (defined similarly 10 $);
variants of one sound.

7, as in English.

4, ~ pronounced with glottal closure immediately preceding.

?, voiceless spirantal 7.

nt t* weakly articulated forms of m, 2, ¢, and &amp;, occurring in final position.

*, glottal closure.

', breath release.
{{plainlist/e}}

Diacritical Marks:
{{plainlist/s|indent=2}}
*, denotes that preceding vewel is long.
‘, indicates that preceding vowel is stressed.
{{plainlist/e}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Bolivia (1893; Bureau of the American Republics).djvu/197</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4845117</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132280</id>
      <parentid>15124506</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:23:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SpikeShroom</username>
        <id>2925742</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ finished table</comment>
      <origin>15132280</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3556" sha1="rjtfqznw7xyvtaci5lgvs8rljj4wybm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;SpikeShroom&quot; /&gt;{{rh||IMPORT DUTIES OF BOLIVIA.|171}}
{{c|{{asc|SECTION III.—LINEN, HEMP, ETC.}}—{{xs|Continued.}}

{{sm|[Duty 30 per cent.]}}}}

{{bc/s|width=100%}}
{| class=&quot;chart&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot;
|-
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Articles.
! Valuation.&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|- class=&quot;top&quot;
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Napkins—
| &lt;noinclude&gt;Dollars.&lt;/noinclude&gt;
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Hemmed or unhemmed
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| .493
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same, coarse cloth
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| .394
|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Bed spreads— ||
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Table covers and furniture covers, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| .657
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same of hemp or jute, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| .427
|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Network— ||
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Hook or crochet, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 2.30{{ht|0}}
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same with silk, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 2.875
|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Insertions and edgings— ||
|- class=&quot;entry-end&quot;
| Worked or openworked, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 3.943
|-
| width=&quot;80%&quot; |
| width=&quot;10%&quot; |
| width=&quot;10%&quot; |
|}
{{bc/e}}


{{c|{{asc|SECTION IV.—SILK.}}

{{sm|[Duty 30 per cent on official valuation.]}}}}

{{bc/s|width=100%}}
{| class=&quot;chart&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot;
|-
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Articles.
! Valuation.
|- class=&quot;top&quot;
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Girdles or sashes—
| Dollars.
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Of crêpe or twisted silk point, plain or damasked, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 6.572
|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Tapes and ribbons— ||
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Silks or plain satin, twilled or figured, etc., wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 13.144
|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | {{dhr|0.5em}} ||
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same for hat bindings and elastic bands, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 5.915
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same, grosgrain, moiré, satin or taffety, plain, smooth, double or fringed, wrapped included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 9.86{{ht|0}}
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same with cotton mixture, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 6.90{{ht|0}}
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Silk, crêpe, satin or tulle, veiling or other textures, transparent, plain, worked, variegated, from 38 to 127 millimeters width
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | meter
| .145
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same openworked, from 70 to 80 millimeters width
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| .18{{ht|0}}
|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | {{dhr|0.5em}} ||
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Silk, embroidered
| Sight.
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Velvet or plush, with or without cotton mixture, plain or embroidered, wrapper included, except paper boxes
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 7.229
|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Cravats— ||
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Plain or embroidered, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 3.943
|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Patterns— ||
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| For clothing, basted or put together
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | each
| Sight.
|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | {{dhr|0.5em}} ||
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| For vests, up to 75 centimeters length
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | dozen
| 17.352
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same with mixture of other material
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 13.014
|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Laces and silk blonde— ||
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| With or without cotton mixture, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 19.716
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same with beadwork, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 13.144
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same without paper boxes
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
|16.43{{ht|0}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;!-- NECESSARY BLANK LINE (DO NOT DELETE) --&gt;
|-
| width=&quot;80%&quot; |
| width=&quot;10%&quot; |
| width=&quot;10%&quot; |
|}
{{bc/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rjtfqznw7xyvtaci5lgvs8rljj4wybm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Translation:Óláfsdrápa sœnska</title>
    <ns>114</ns>
    <id>4845512</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132271</id>
      <parentid>15125921</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:20:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>no source, translation license</comment>
      <origin>15132271</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1240" sha1="4dvttjeiysts3bv749y3e8zafdepqs4" xml:space="preserve">{{no source}}
{{translation header
 | title       = Óláfsdrápa sœnska
 | author      = Óttarr svarti
 | translator  = 
 | section     = 
 | previous    = 
 | next        = 
 | year        = 1018
 | language    = non
 | original    = 
 | notes       = The dating is not exact.
}}


{{ppoem|
1 &lt;&lt;&lt; May the chief hear the beginning—the king’s praise will be raised,
may he rightly grasp the meter of my ode—of his poem.
2 &lt;&lt;&lt; Soon was the young prince, full of strength, rash in war;
I pray for his age to last; him I count an overman.
3 &lt;&lt;&lt; He broke slender planks (and the breaker roared)—the tree-murder&lt;ref&gt;The wind.&lt;/ref&gt; rose,
men caught a fierce storm—above the sea.
4 &lt;&lt;&lt; The eagle drinks breakfast; the shewolf takes a corpse-sip;
oft the wolf reddens his jaws; the hawk gets a meal there.
5 &lt;&lt;&lt; The ruler surely wins war-Free’s loveless chosen wife&lt;ref&gt;''víg-Freyr'' ‘war-Free’ is Woden, whose concubine is the Earth.&lt;/ref&gt;
in the east; the sovereign of men leads a good life.
6 &lt;&lt;&lt; The troop-Balder&lt;ref&gt;The warrior.&lt;/ref&gt; defends the land; few kings can do so;
Anlaf cheers the eagle; famed is the Swedish lord!}}

{{translation licence| original = {{PD-old}} | translation = {{CC-BY-SA 4.0}} }}

{{smallrefs}}</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/23</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4845590</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132502</id>
      <parentid>15128932</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:41:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132502</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1012" sha1="aqgbh7nurnw41sz42rsqazjqets5p2z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|5}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''mounted cane''. {{sc|Count Mancini}} ''is tall and slight. The seams of his clothes are worn and he keeps his coat buttoned tight. He assumes extremely graceful manners, takes affected poses, and has a special fondness for toying with his cane, with aristocratic stylishness. When he laughs, which happens often, his thin sharp face takes on a marked resemblance to a satyr. The manager'', {{sc|“Papa” Briquet}}, ''is a stout quiet man of average height. His bearing is hesitant. The clowns make room for the gentlemen. The manager looks questioningly at the older man''.]

{{csc|Polly}}

[''With an affected accent'']: Our moosic for the pantomime! The March of the Ants!

{{csc|Briquet}}

Ha! Yes!

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''The gentlemen walk in. The clowns resume their music,'' {{sc|Polly}} ''marching on, then turning, the younger following''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{csc|Polly}}

Papa Briquet, Jack is working very badly to-day.

{{c|Briquet}}

What’s the matter with him?
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Ha! Yes!

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What’s the matter with him?
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Ha! Yes!

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Papa Briquet, Jack is working very badly to-day.

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What’s the matter with him?
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    <title>Chaffin v. Stynchcombe/Dissent Stewart</title>
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 | title = [[../]]
 | author = Potter Stewart
 | section = Dissent
 | previous = 
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 | year = 1973
 | portal = Supreme Court of the United States
 | wikipedia = 
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}}
 {{USSCcase2
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    |dissent_author2 = Marshall
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&lt;div class='courtopinion'&gt;
'''[p35]''' MR. JUSTICE STEWART, with whom MR. JUSTICE BRENNAN joins, dissenting.


In ''North Carolina v. Pearce'', [[395 U.S. 711]], 725, the Court held that &quot;vindictiveness against a defendant for having successfully attacked his first conviction must play no part in the sentence he receives after a new trial.&quot; As I see it, there is a real danger of such '''[p36]''' vindictiveness even when a jury rather than a judge imposes the sentence after retrial. Because the Court today declines to require any procedures to eliminate that danger, even though procedures quite similar to those adopted in ''Pearce'' could readily be applied without sacrificing the values of jury sentencing, I must dissent.

The true threat of vindictiveness at a retrial where the jury metes out the sentence comes from the trial judge and prosecutor. Either or both might have personal and institutional reasons for desiring to punish a defendant who has successfully challenged his conviction. Out of vindictiveness the prosecutor might well ask for a sentence more severe than that meted out after the first trial, and a judge by the manner in which he charges the jury might influence the jury to impose a higher sentence at the second trial. In the present case, for example, while the petitioner was sentenced to 15 years' imprisonment after his first trial, on retrial the prosecutor asked the jury to impose the death penalty, and the judge instructed the jurors that they could inflict that punishment. It is said that the prosecutor and judge gave the jury the option to impose capital punishment at the retrial simply as a tactical move to assure that the petitioner would again receive at least a 15-year sentence. But it is not inconceivable in this setting that a prosecutor or a judge might seek to secure a higher sentence for a defendant in order to punish him for his successful appeal.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;/&gt;

'''[p37]''' It was to purge that possibility of retaliation that ''Pearce'' required prophylactic measures for judicial sentencing. Without such procedures, as the Court pointed out in ''Pearce'', it would be extremely difficult for a defendant to establish that his higher sentence was the result of a retaliatory motivation.

I agree with the Court today that some measures are ill-suited to eliminating the possibility of retaliation in a case where the jury imposes the sentence. For example, the jury ought not to be told that its sentencing power is limited by the term imposed at the first trial, for the jury might then impose a less severe sentence in reaching a compromise verdict. But there is no reason why the trial judge should not be compelled to reduce any sentence imposed by the jury after retrial to that imposed after the first trial, unless he can affirmatively set forth the kind of reasons required in ''Pearce'' for the increased sentence. &quot;Those reasons must be based upon objective information concerning identifiable conduct on the part of the defendant occurring after the time of the original sentencing proceeding.&quot; 395 U.S., at 726.

As in ''Pearce'', that procedure would serve to minimize the possibility that vindictiveness had played a role in the sentence a defendant received after a new trial, and it would free a convicted man from the fear that a successful challenge to his conviction might lead to a vindictively imposed harsher sentence after a second trial. Since this measure would, at the most, reinstate the sentence imposed by the original jury, none of the basic purposes served by jury sentencing would be jeopardized.

I also agree with my Brother MARSHALL that allowing a more severe sentence to be imposed by a jury on retrial, when that sentence would be impermissible for a judge to impose, is an infringement upon a defendant's constitutional right to a jury trial. See ''United States v. Jackson'', [[390 U.S. 570]]. Requiring that a judge reduce a '''[p38]''' jury-imposed sentence to that imposed after the first trial, unless he can make the kind of findings required by ''Pearce'', would eliminate that illegitimate burden upon a constitutional right.


{{Reflist|refs=

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;&gt;The Court finds the possibility of prosecutorial malice &quot;remote.&quot; ''Ante'', at 27. The only basis for that conclusion appears to be that the prosecutor may have quite innocent strategic reasons for requesting an increased sentence after a retrial. But that does not foreclose the possibility that a prosecutor might have quite vindictive reasons for seeking a more severe penalty, and it underlines the extraordinary difficulty a defendant would have in attempting to prove a retaliatory motivation.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;
}}
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&lt;div class='courtopinion'&gt;
'''[p38]''' MR. JUSTICE MARSHALL, dissenting.


I cannot agree with the Court that it is permissible for a jury, but not a judge, to give a defendant on his retrial a sentence more severe than the one he received in his first trial, without specifying particular aspects of his behavior since the time of his first trial that justify the enhanced sentence. Such a rule is defective in two ways. First, the Court acknowledges that a jury violates the Constitution when it gives such a defendant a more severe sentence to punish him for successfully taking an appeal. ''Ante'', at 26-28. Yet, when the costs, in terms of other values served by juries, of the methods of preventing, detecting, and remedying that kind of violation are balanced against the minor degree to which restrictions on jury resentencing impair the values served by jury sentencing, the need to vindicate the constitutional right warrants restrictions on juries similar to those we placed on judges in ''North Carolina v. Pearce'', [[395 U.S. 711]] (1969). Second, as in ''United States v. Jackson'', [[390 U.S. 570]] (1968), the possibility that a jury might increase a sentence for reasons that would be unavailable to a judge unnecessarily burdens the defendant's right to choose a jury trial. I therefore respectfully dissent.

I begin with what appears to be common ground. If the jury on retrial has been informed of the defendant's prior conviction and sentence, the possibility is real that it will enhance his punishment simply because he successfully appealed. The Court apparently agrees, ''ante'', at 27 n. 13, 28-29, nn. 14-15, and suggests that a variety of preventive and remedial measures must be taken to '''[p39]''' minimize that possibility. Those measures, I believe, are too intrusive on the process of selecting the jury and insulating its deliberations from inquiry. In ''Pearce'' we devised a remedy for judicial vindictiveness in sentencing that was broader than the constitutional vice, because a remedy more closely tailored to the vice would too severely intrude on the process by which the judge made his sentencing decisions. A similar remedy is justified for the same reasons in the case of jury resentencing.

Of course a jury that does not know of a prior conviction and sentence cannot take them into account when it resentences the offender. But there is a real possibility that a jury will know of a prior sentence and will enhance the punishment it imposes out of vindictiveness as the Court apparently concedes in limiting its holding to &quot;properly controlled retrial[s].&quot; ''Ante'', at 26. And only when the possibility of vindictiveness can confidently be said to be ''de minimis'' can ''Pearce'' be distinguished. Even in ''Pearce'' we acknowledged the difficulty in establishing that sentences were frequently enhanced out of vindictiveness. 395 U.S., at 725 n. 20. Indeed, we could cite only studies that showed that increased sentences on reconviction were &quot;far from rare,&quot; ''ibid.''; we had before us no evidence at all that vindictiveness actually played a part in a substantial number of cases where cases were increased.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;/&gt;

'''[p40]''' Given the possibility of vindictiveness, a defendant is entitled to a remedy designed to eliminate, or at least minimize, that possibility. It follows, I believe, that the defense is entitled to have prospective jurors asked carefully framed questions designed to explore their knowledge of a prior conviction and sentence. Cf. ''Ham v. South Carolina'', [[409 U.S. 524]] (1973). But it will inevitably be difficult to frame questions that will do so without informing the jurors of those facts in the very act of questioning them. In addition, the right to have questions asked of prospective jurors would be meaningless unless the defense could challenge jurors for cause solely on the basis of the answers to those questions. Yet nearly all of the States in which jury sentencing is required to have large rural areas,&lt;ref name=&quot;ref2&quot;/&gt; where it is quite likely that a retrial after a successful appeal will be a notorious public event. It seems to me probable, then, that the right recognized by the Court will substantially impede expeditious selection of juries, for it will generally be easy to make a threshold showing of local publicity, and may often so severely limit the number of available jurors as to raise serious questions of the representativeness of the jury finally chosen.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref3&quot;/&gt;

The Court suggests that a curative instruction might minimize the possibility that the jury will be improperly influenced by its knowledge of a prior conviction or '''[p41]''' sentence. ''Ante'', at 28 n. 14. We have already recognized, however, that it is quite unrealistic to believe that instructions to disregard evidence that a jury might treat in a manner highly prejudicial to a defendant will often be followed. ''Jackson v. Denno'', [[378 U.S. 368]], 388-389 (1964); ''Bruton v. United States'', [[391 U.S. 123]], 128-137 (1968). Cf. E. Morgan, Some Problems of Proof Under the Anglo-American System of Litigation 105 (1956). And curative instructions may serve only to highlight the problem. Not every such instruction is ineffective, of course, but I would not burden the judicial process with difficult inquiries into the effectiveness of such an instruction where, as here, the State's interest in having sentences imposed by the jury can easily be satisfied without requiring such inquiries. See ''infra'', at 43.

Finally, a post-sentencing inquiry of a jury that imposes a more severe sentence might disclose that vindictiveness played no part in its sentencing decision. But this could be achieved only by sacrificing the traditional secrecy of jury deliberations. Cf. ''Clark v. United States'', [[289 U.S. 1]] (1933), and cases cited therein.

Because of the differing institutional positions of judge and jury,&lt;ref name=&quot;ref4&quot;/&gt; and because the jury that sentences also convicts '''[p42]''' and so focuses on the facts of the offense, the question of applying the limitations imposed by ''Pearce'' on resentencing by judges to resentencing by juries would surely be a close one, if only the issue of possible vindictiveness were involved. Since no state interests in jury sentencing would be impaired to any significant degree by imposing such limitations, however, the question should be resolved in favor of limiting the jury's power.

One group of policies underlying jury sentencing derives from the belief that juries will be more humane and compassionate than judges: judges, it is said, represent a centralized government remote from the details of local life; judges who often must seek re-election may be unduly swayed by political considerations that have little impact on jurors; and judges who routinely deal with criminal cases may become callous and insensitive to the human problems of defendants. In contrast, the jury has close ties to the local community, and because it sits only once and then dissolves, its members ordinarily have little experience with criminal offenders. Cf. Note, Jury Sentencing in Virginia, 53 Va. L. Rev. 968, 988-991 (1967). It is somewhat anomalous, however, to contend that because juries are more compassionate than judges, they may impose a sentence more severe than a judge may constitutionally impose. I cannot understand, therefore, how the belief that juries are more compassionate than judges justifies a rule that permits a jury on retrial to impose a sentence more severe than that imposed by the original jury.

The second policy implicated in jury sentencing is that the jury serves as a &quot;link between contemporary community values and the penal system,&quot; ''Witherspoon v. Illinois'', [[391 U.S. 510]], 519 n. 15 (1968). More accurately than a judge, the jury reflects the community's moral attitude toward the particular offender. The jury's function in sentencing, then, is to make the punishment '''[p43]''' fit the crime, not the criminal. Limitations on the sentences a jury might impose do impair its ability to decide what punishment fits the crime before it. But in cases like this one, one jury has already determined what it, as a representative of community views, thinks is an appropriate sentence. Indeed, it has done so after a trial in which reversible error, presumably prejudicial to the defendant, occurred. Thus, this state interest is not substantially impaired by limitations designed to preclude the second jury from imposing a sentence based, in part, on a desire to punish the defendant for taking an appeal.

In short, even if only the question of vindictiveness were involved in the case of jury resentencing, I would hold that limitations similar to those in ''Pearce'' must be imposed on jury resentencing: alternative methods of minimizing vindictiveness may seriously impair other values, and the limitations of ''Pearce'' do not greatly affect the values served by jury sentencing.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref5&quot;/&gt; But vindictiveness alone is not the only issue here. For, by establishing '''[p44]''' one rule for sentencing by judges and another for sentencing by juries, the Court places an unnecessary burden on the defendant's right to choose to be tried by a jury after a successful appeal.

We held unconstitutional in ''United States v. Jackson'', [[390 U.S. 570]] (1968), a sentencing structure that placed an unnecessary burden on a defendant's right to a jury trial. The Court today purports to distinguish ''Jackson'' on the ground that subsequent cases show that ''Jackson'' does not make unconstitutional sentencing structures that impose a burden on the exercise of constitutional rights as &quot;an incidental consequence.&quot; ''Ante'', at 32. Yet in ''Jackson'' we said, &quot;The question is not whether the chilling effect is 'incidental' rather than intentional; the question is whether that effect is unnecessary and therefore excessive.&quot; 390 U.S., at 582. ''Brady v. United States'', [[397 U.S. 742]] (1970), and ''Crampton v. Ohio'', [[402 U.S. 183]] (1971), the cases that the Court now relies on, did not overrule ''Jackson''; nor did they change the constitutional test. The question is still whether the burden on the exercise of the right to be tried by a jury is necessary, not whether it is only incidental to the accomplishment of some legitimate state purpose.

In ''Brady'', a defendant sought to vacate his guilty plea on the ground that he had pleaded guilty only to avoid capital punishment, under a statute that provided for the death penalty only on the recommendation of the jury. The Court viewed his argument as applicable to '''[p45]''' every kind of inducement that the prosecution offers to a defendant in order to elicit a plea of guilty. See 397 U.S., at 750-753. Thus, on the Court's analysis, upholding his challenge would have necessarily invalidated the widespread practice of plea bargaining, which the Court thought essential to our system of criminal justice. The burden on the exercise of a defendant's right not to incriminate himself was therefore necessary, in the terms of the analysis required by ''Jackson''.

Similarly, the defendant in ''Crampton'' contended that failure to separate the trial of a capital case into a guilt-determining phase and a sentencing phase deterred him from testifying to facts bearing on sentence alone, for to testify would have opened him up to impeachment and to questions bearing on guilt. To the Court, however, such pressure was indistinguishable from that placed on him by a very powerful case for the prosecution that might require rebuttal, or by a large number of other widely accepted procedural rules. See 402 U.S., at 213-216. As in ''Brady'', then, the Court could not agree with the defendant without holding unconstitutional many procedures that it thought essential to the criminal process.

Both ''Brady'' and ''Crampton'' applied the test of necessity. The Court today does not, as it concedes when it says that &quot;[where] the burden... is as speculative as this one is,&quot; constitutional limitations on resentencing are not justified. ''Ante'', at 34 n. 21. But ''Jackson, Brady'', and ''Crampton'' did not involve assessments of the relative severity of the burden on the right to choose to be tried by a jury;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref6&quot;/&gt; they turned on the question of strict '''[p46]''' necessity.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref7&quot;/&gt; No legitimate state interest is materially advanced by permitting a second jury to enhance punishment without limitations like those placed by ''Pearce'' on judges, and such limitations would not substantially affect any such interest. Thus, the rule endorsed by the Court today is not only unnecessary, but it unquestionable burdens a defendant's choice of jury trial after a successful appeal.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref8&quot;/&gt;

I believe that ''Pearce'' and ''Jackson'' require that States with jury sentencing adopt procedures by which juries resentencing an offender are precluded from considering the fact that the offender successfully appealed in determining the new sentence, and so I dissent.


{{Reflist|refs=

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;&gt;I assume that the Court would treat jury sentencing as it treated judge sentencing in ''Pearce'' if it were presented with the same kind of evidence we drew on in ''Pearce''. Cf. ''Witherspoon v. Illinois'', [[391 U.S. 510]], 516-518 (1968). Because of the differing institutional positions of judges, who will be repeatedly reviewed by appellate courts, and juries, which are not continuing bodies, cf. ''Illinois v. Somerville'', [[410 U.S. 458]], 477 (1973) (MARSHALL, J., dissenting), evidence supporting the inference that vindictiveness may not infrequently influence jury decisions would be especially valuable from cases in which the evidence on retrial was not substantially different from the evidence at the first trial.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref2&quot;&gt;In addition to Georgia, these States include Arkansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Virginia.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref3&quot;&gt;Even on the Court's analysis, if a defendant must proceed to trial before a jury that knows of his prior conviction and sentence, due process would require limitations on the sentence imposed, though such limitations would not be required in &quot;properly controlled retrial[s].&quot; Thus, the Court does not today endorse the proposition that limitations on jury sentencing on a retrial are never required. See ''ante'', at 28 n. 14. At most, it holds only that, in the absence of knowledge of the prior conviction and sentence, no limitations are constitutionally compelled.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref4&quot;&gt;The Court distinguishes ''Pearce'' from this case in part on the ground that there &quot;the second sentence [was] meted out by the same judicial authority whose handling of the prior trial was sufficiently unacceptable to have required a reversal of the conviction,&quot; while here &quot;the jury, unlike the judge 'who has been reversed, will have no personal stake in the prior conviction and no motivation to engage in self-vindication.&quot; ''Ante'', at 27. The Court cannot mean that ''Pearce'' himself was resentenced by the same judge who sentenced him in the first place, for Pearce was tried before two different judges. See ''State v. Pearce'', 266 N.C. 234, 236, 145 S.E.2d 918, 920 (1966) (Judge Williams at first trial); ''State v. Pearce'', 268 N.C. 707, 708, 151 S.E.2d 571, 572 (1966) (Judge McLaughlin at second trial). Thus, the only differences in this respect are institutional, not personal: juries are not continuing bodies and may have little interest in deterring appeals or vindicating a colleague.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref5&quot;&gt;The Court suggests that the limitations of ''Pearce'' cannot easily be adapted to jury sentencing. ''Ante'', at 28-29, n. 15. But procedures like bifurcation, special verdicts stating the reasons for the sentence imposed or stating that the prior conviction and sentence were not taken into account, instructing the jury that the maximum sentence available to it is that imposed earlier, or empowering the judge to reduce the sentence if it exceeds the prior sentence, are some obvious alternatives. The Court suggests that the first two are inconsistent with the basic purpose of jury sentencing—making the punishment fit the crime—and that the latter two would achieve, in the name of due process, the substance of the result we have declined to approve under the Double Jeopardy Clause.&quot; ''Ante'', at 29, n. 15. The latter point confuses limitations imposed by the Constitution with choices a State might, make to carry out the policies it seeks to vindicate through jury sentencing; if a State chooses to impose a maximum limit on resentencing instead of establishing a bifurcated procedure, for example, the result is not, even in substance, the result urged under the Double Jeopardy Clause, for it results from choice among alternatives and not from constitutional commands. Similarly, bifurcation may inject into jury sentencing considerations. that the State thinks are irrelevant to its purposes in establishing a system in, which juries are the sentencing authority, and it may decide to adopt some other method of complying with the constitutional requirements. But surely there is no clear conflict between bifurcation of special verdicts and the purposes of jury sentencing.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref6&quot;&gt;Georgia permits a defendant to plead not guilty and waive his right to jury trial. See ''Berry v. State'', 61 Ga. App. 315, 6 S.E.2d 148 (1939). Of the States with jury sentencing, apparently only Kentucky does not permit such a waiver. See ''Meyer v. Commonwealth'', 472 S.W.2d 479, 482 (Ky. 1971). Where the prosecution must agree to sudh a waiver, cf. Fed. Rule Crim.  Proc. 23 (a), it would of course be impermissible to refuse agreement solely because a judge would be restricted in resentencing while a jury would not, cf. ''Singer v. United States'', [[380 U.S. 24]], 37 (1965).
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref7&quot;&gt;In discussing whether the holding today burdens the right to appeal, the Court says that for the undesired outcome to occur, &quot;[s]everal contingencies must coalesce.&quot; Thus, &quot;the likelihood of actually receiving a harsher sentence is quite remote ai the time, a convicted defendant begins to weigh the question whether he will appeal.&quot; ''Ante'', at 33. But, of the list the Court, provides, only two remain contingent when the defendant must decide to waive or insist upon a jury trial—reconviction and sentence. The Court acknowledges that in some cases, even when all the contingencies must be taken into account, the possibility of a harsher sentence might well affect the decision to appeal. ''Ante'', at 34-35. The burden will surely be substantial when the contingencies are reduced to two.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref8&quot;&gt;The Court, in its footnote discussing this argument, does assert that the burden &quot;cannot be said to be 'needless.'&quot; ''Ante'', at 33-34, n. 21. The sentence following that assertion does not supply any reason why the burden is necessary; it simply states two ways in which the burden might be eliminated without saying why those alternatives are so impractical as to make necessary the burden that after today's decision, may be placed on the right to jury trial.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{xx-larger|{{color|#3a638b|'''APPENDIX 7: Legislation current at the time'''}}}}

{{x-larger|{{color|#3a638b|'''Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 (HSWA)'''}}}}

{{pline|1|l}}HSWA imposes, among other things, general duties on employers towards employees and others, including members of the public, to ensure that they are protected from risks arising from the employers’ activities.

{{x-larger|{{color|#3a638b|'''The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1992 (MHSWR)'''}}}}

{{pline|2|l}}MHSWR placed duties on employers to assess the risks to which workers and others may be exposed in order to identify what needed to be done to comply with legal requirements.

{{pline|3|l}}The Approved Code of Practice (ACOP) to the Regulations gave guidance on risk assessment principles, including a hierarchy of preventive measures to determine appropriate responses to assessed risks. Appendix 2 to the CDM ACOP sets out the hierarchy in the context of construction.

{{pline|4|l}}MHSWR placed other duties on employers. These included duties to:

* make and put into effect health and safety arrangements for planning, organising, controlling, monitoring and reviewing the steps necessary to deal with issues identified through risk assessment;
* provide health surveillance for employees;
* appoint competent person(s) to assist in securing compliance with health and safety legislation; establish emergency procedures;
* provide health and safety information to employees;
* co-operate and co-ordinate with other employers and the self-employed;
* take steps as ‘host employers’ to secure the health and safety of others, including the self-employed, who work for them; and
* take account of employee capabilities and provide them with health and safety training, including on recruitment, on transfer to new work, at changes of responsibilities and when new work equipment, technology and working methods are adopted.

{{pline|5|l}}The 1992 Regulations and ACOP have since been revoked and replaced by the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999 and a new ACOP.

{{x-larger|{{color|#3a638b|'''The Construction (Design and Management) Regulations 1994 (CDM)'''}}}}

{{pline|6|l}}CDM first came into force on 31 March 1995, five months after the collapse at Heathrow. There were transitional provisions such that the requirements on designers did not apply until 1 August&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>o5hp592bgxtz7ydi3hlb2scr47up4lc</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/109</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846225</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131865</id>
      <parentid>15128438</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:36:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Navigators</username>
        <id>204175</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131865</origin>
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      <text bytes="1520" sha1="ppd9gm3cv13xiqzfoxvg7ninazpjelq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;The Navigators&quot; /&gt;{{right|{{larger|'''HEATHROW REPORT''' &lt;nowiki&gt;|&lt;/nowiki&gt; '''101'''}}}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;1995 in respect of any design where preparation started before 31 March 1995. The Regulations
were fully in force from 1 January 1996. CDM places duties on clients, planning supervisors,
designers, and principal and other contractors. There are synergies with other regulations such as
MHSWR and the Safety Representatives and Safety Committees Regulations 1977. CDM is comprehensively explained in the ACOP to the Regulations ''Managing health and safety in construction'', ISBN 0 7176 0792 5.

{{x-larger|{{color|#3a638b|'''The Construction Regulations 1961-1989'''}}}}

Detailed requirements specific to the construction industry at the time of the collapse were contained in five codes of regulations variously made between 1961 and 1989. These were:

* The Construction (General Provisions) Regulations 1961;
* The Construction (Lifting Operations) Regulations 1961;
* The Construction (Working Places) Regulations 1966;
* The Construction (Health and Welfare) Regulations 1966;
* The Construction (Head Protection) Regulations 1989.

The 1961 and 1966 Regulations have since been revoked and replaced by the Construction (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1996 (CHSW) and the Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulations 1998 (LOLER). Reference should be made to other HSE publications such as ''Health and Safety in Construction'', HSG150, ISBN 0 717 6 1143 4 for details of the wide-ranging obligations that can arise.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/7</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846242</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132367</id>
      <parentid>15128565</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:06:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15132367</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="787" sha1="a8c5msgmsux57yygdr5qo8zan1rdbvz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{border|position=center|align=center|maxwidth=28em|padding=0|
{{dhr}}
{{xxxxl|{{lsp|0.2em|{{uc|Swords and{{br}}Plowshares}}}}}}
{{dhr}}
{{rule|28em}}
{{dhr|4}}
{{xl|''By''}}{{em|1}}{{xxl|{{asc|[[Author:Ernest Howard Crosby|Ernest Crosby]]}}}}{{br}}
{{smaller|''Author of &quot;[[Captain Jinks, Hero]],&quot; &quot;[[Plain Talk in Psalm &amp; Parable|Plain Talk in Psalm and Parable]],&quot; etc.''}}
{{dhr|3}}
{{rule|3em}}
{{dhr|3}}
{{center block|{{fine|And they shall beat their swords into plowshares,{{br}}and their spears into pruninghooks.}}}}
{{right|{{mdash}}[[Isaiah (Bible)|{{fine|{{sc|Isaiah}}}}]]{{gap}}}}
{{dhr}}
[[File:F&amp;W logo 1902.png|100px]]
{{dhr|3}}
{{rule|28em}}
{{dhr}}
{{lsp|0.2em|{{uc|Funk &amp; Wagnalls Company}}}}{{br}}
{{asc|Lafayette Place, New York}}{{br}}
{{oldstyle|1902}}
{{dhr}}
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/29</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846403</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131688</id>
      <parentid>15129946</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:14:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
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      <text bytes="909" sha1="ld5t3dhkss5k7ai0tidbb6jkcb8risf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|11}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Yes.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Don’t give him any. [''Sits down wearily on a torn sofa, shuts her eyes''. {{sc|Mancini}} ''gets up and wipes his knees''.]

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Duchess! Don’t be cruel. I am no lion, no tiger, no savage beast which you are accustomed to tame. I am merely a poor domestic animal, who wants, miaow, miaow, a little green grass.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

[''Without opening her eyes'']: Jim tells me you have a teacher for Consuelo. What for?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

The solicitude of a father, duchess, the solicitude and the tireless anxiety of a loving heart. The extreme misfortunes of our family, when I was a child, have left some flaws in her education. Friends, the daughter of Count Mancini, Countess Veronica, can barely read! Is that admissible? And you, Briquet, heartless brute, you still ask why I need money!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/66</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846404</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132149</id>
      <parentid>15128941</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:33:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="864" sha1="0yd0pgj5i0pf1dc298skc70vym92mim" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|48|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|48}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;But I feel as dizzy as a young girl at her first ball. It is so nice here—slap me, I want to play my part. Perhaps it will awaken love in my heart, too. Love—[''as if listening to his own heart with pretended terror''] do you know—I feel it!

[''In the circus the Tango is played again''.]

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

[''Listening too'']: For me?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No. I don't know. For everyone. [''Listens to the music''.] Yes, they are dancing—how beautiful Consuelo is—and how beautiful is the youth. He has the body of a Greek God; he looks as if he had been modeled by Praxiteles. Love! Love! [''Silence, music''.]

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Tell me, {{sc|He}}{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

At your service, Queen!

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

{{sc|He}}, what shall I do, to make my lions love me?
{{dhr}}
{{c|{{sc|Curtain}}}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132154</id>
      <parentid>15132149</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:33:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15132154</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="866" sha1="2db6wth1qck3doowb31adv61aupn3tt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|48|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|48}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;But I feel as dizzy as a young girl at her first ball. It is so nice here—slap me, I want to play my part. Perhaps it will awaken love in my heart, too. Love—[''as if listening to his own heart with pretended terror''] do you know—I feel it!

[''In the circus the Tango is played again''.]

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

[''Listening too'']: For me?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No. I don’t know. For everyone. [''Listens to the music''.] Yes, they are dancing—how beautiful Consuelo is—and how beautiful is the youth. He has the body of a Greek God; he looks as if he had been modeled by Praxiteles. Love! Love! [''Silence, music''.]

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Tell me, {{sc|He}}{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

At your service, Queen!

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

{{sc|He}}, what shall I do, to make my lions love me?
{{dhr}}
{{c|{{sc|Curtain}}}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/213</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846602</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131783</id>
      <parentid>15129625</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:39:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>sic</comment>
      <origin>15131783</origin>
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      <text bytes="1038" sha1="m41eh8d75oanxe96hrlvjgf3gcira28" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|181|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;their headlong rashness may be made the instrument of their ruin, and the stern hand of death arrest them before they have tasted of that earthly glory for which they toiled; their deeds, however, still live, and become often benefits to mankind, though springing from an evil source.

The emperor, after a long silence, commented on the beautiful management of the vessel. &quot;The English are kings upon the sea,&quot; he said, and then, smiling somewhat sarcastically, added, &quot;I wonder what they think of our beautiful island; they cannot be much elated by the sight of my gigantic prison walls!&quot; His natural prejudice against {{SIC|th|the}} island rendered him blind to the many beauties with which it abounded; he beheld all with a jaundiced eye: thus ever do our views of life take their colouring from our feelings and the nature of the circumstances in which we are placed. &quot;Our eyes see all around in gloom with hues of their own, fresh&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/13</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846617</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131422</id>
      <parentid>15129658</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:24:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>italics</comment>
      <origin>15131422</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1046" sha1="naw9od83rpw24p448re3rtgtb8uw5m1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;The God of War&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''The God of War'''}}{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]
{{right|{{smaller|''From the French of Théodore Jean'' &lt;!--French anarchist poet, 1863–1949--&gt;}}}}

{{ppoem|
{{di|S}}O be it! Our globe is but a hell{{em|8}}
:Of torments, crimes, and sins abhorred,
:Where Force by dint of fire and sword
Subdues his victims all too well{{. . .|4}}

O god whom patriots adore,
:I scorn thee; for in thee I see
:The symbol of barbarity.
Therefore I hate thee, god of war!

As mothers curse thee, so curse I{{mdash}}
:Mothers whose sons were racked with pain,
:Whose mutilated bodies slain
Are heaped in vain beneath the sky.

With pick and hammer let us rise
:And break this idol-shape of stone,
:Breathing forth slaughter from his throne
Hid in the inmost shrine of lies.

Down with the temple which above
:Sets up a blood-bespattered rag!
:And let us with a world-wide flag
Find freedom in the work of love.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The God of War&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section end=&quot;The God of War&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|9}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/14</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846623</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131421</id>
      <parentid>15129665</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:24:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>italics</comment>
      <origin>15131421</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1344" sha1="fegwvd126ejobu7i9hbm35zlff31o1w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|The Victory|||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;The Victory&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''The Victory'''}}{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]
{{right|{{smaller|''From the Chinese of [[Author:Laozi|Lao-Tsu]]''}}}}

{{ppoem|
{{di|H}}E who hath slain his thousands in the fray
Should shed hot tears, and celebrate the day
With funeral rites, such as wan mourners pay.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The Victory&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The Victory&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Christianity and War&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''Christianity and War'''}}{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]
{{right|{{smaller|''From the German of [[:de:Friedrich von Bodenstedt|Bodenstedt]]''}}}}

{{ppoem|
{{di|T}}ALK, if you will, of hero deed,
:Of clash of arms and battle wonders;
But prate not of your Christian creed
:Preached by the cannon's murderous thunders.

And if your courage needs a test,
:Copy the pagan's fierce behavior;
Revel in bloodshed east and west,
:But speak not with it of the Savior.

The Turk may wage a righteous war
:In honor of his martial Allah;
But Thor and Odin live no more{{mdash}}
:Dead are the gods in our Valhalla.

Be what you will, entire and free,
:Christian or warrior each can please us;
But not the rank hypocrisy
:Of warlike followers of Jesus.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Christianity and War&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section end=&quot;Christianity and War&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|10}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Swords and Plowshares/The God of War</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4846627</id>
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      <id>15131420</id>
      <parentid>15129675</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:23:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <comment>add section title</comment>
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      <text bytes="387" sha1="qykoz18o8nh2aflqlgh9y9zsxgpzx7s" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = The God of War
 | previous    = [[../|''frontmatter'']]
 | next        = [[../The Victory/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf&quot; include=13 /&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Swords and Plowshares/The Victory</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
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      <parentid>15129682</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:22:40Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <text bytes="418" sha1="8yx75tybj0to7ygbtl5jpo4n26as1qb" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = The Victory
 | previous    = [[../The God of War/]]
 | next        = [[../Christianity and War/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf&quot; include=14 onlysection=&quot;The Victory&quot; /&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Swords and Plowshares/Christianity and War</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4846632</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131415</id>
      <parentid>15129685</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:18:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <comment>add title</comment>
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      <text bytes="425" sha1="5bxymj0wk6t712us3rlrpjpaydw1y3c" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = Christianity and War
 | previous    = [[../The Victory/]]
 | next        = [[../War and Hell/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

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  <page>
    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/268</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846690</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133824</id>
      <parentid>15129821</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:21:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
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      <text bytes="1492" sha1="hfjmh1nohyc19tfr96s3nudcxslrglj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|254|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|254}}
CHAPTER XVIII 
THE LURE OF BLACK EYES&lt;/noinclude&gt;DUE west from Lincoln the Kid rode. A mile and a half out he turned north-by-west into Baca road: Here Bonito Cafion widens into a beautiful valley. Down across the bottom-lands and vegas he passed, his horse at a swift gallop. The hay meadows, full of new grass, spread about him enamelled with wild flowers. 
Now and then a jackrabbit stood on its haunches and eyed him curiously. An occasional field lark piped an accompaniment to his pony’s drumming hoofs. 
The drowsy murmur of the Bonito River began to fill his ears, its winding course for miles up and down the 
valley marked by groves of walnut, box-elder, cottonwood, 
and willow. Here and there in the distance he had a 
glimpse of a white slant of rapids or a long reach of shining 
water. Never drawing rein, he splashed across the stream 
where, under shade of trees, it poured over golden gravel 
at the Baca ford. 
On the benches of land beyond, he kept on through the 
ploughed fields, at the edges of which stood the adobe 
houses of Mexican farmers. Through a deep gap in the 
bulwark of colossal yellow pifion-splotched hills ahead 
loomed Capitan Mountain, deep in purple sleep. On a 
height over which the trail climbed he turned in his saddle 
for a farewell look at Lincoln. Far across the sunlit 
valley, the little town, half-buried in blooming orchards, 
seemed a picture of peace. He wondered what was haps 
254&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133826</id>
      <parentid>15133824</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:22:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
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      <text bytes="1485" sha1="8pl45q512f7qygc3dhdjp1cysifuwrb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|254|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|254}}
CHAPTER XVIII 
THE LURE OF BLACK EYES&lt;/noinclude&gt;DUE west from Lincoln the Kid rode. A mile and a half out he turned north-by-west into Baca road: Here Bonito Cafion widens into a beautiful valley. Down across the bottom-lands and vegas he passed, his horse at a swift gallop. The hay meadows, full of new grass, spread about him enamelled with wild flowers. 
Now and then a jackrabbit stood on its haunches and eyed him curiously. An occasional field lark piped an accompaniment to his pony’s drumming hoofs. 
The drowsy murmur of the Bonito River began to fill his ears, its winding course for miles up and down the valley marked by groves of walnut, box-elder, cottonwood, 
and willow. Here and there in the distance he had a glimpse of a white slant of rapids or a long reach of shining water. Never drawing rein, he splashed across the stream where, under shade of trees, it poured over golden gravel 
at the Baca ford. On the benches of land beyond, he kept on through the ploughed fields, at the edges of which stood the adobe houses of Mexican farmers. Through a deep gap in the 
bulwark of colossal yellow pifion-splotched hills ahead 
loomed Capitan Mountain, deep in purple sleep. On a 
height over which the trail climbed he turned in his saddle 
for a farewell look at Lincoln. Far across the sunlit 
valley, the little town, half-buried in blooming orchards, 
seemed a picture of peace. He wondered what was haps 
254&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8pl45q512f7qygc3dhdjp1cysifuwrb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133827</id>
      <parentid>15133826</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:22:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133827</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1482" sha1="qmm7k3navl1awhwsusa1mh5mqmfv4xt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|254|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|254}}
CHAPTER XVIII 
THE LURE OF BLACK EYES&lt;/noinclude&gt;DUE west from Lincoln the Kid rode. A mile and a half out he turned north-by-west into Baca road: Here Bonito Cafion widens into a beautiful valley. Down across the bottom-lands and vegas he passed, his horse at a swift gallop. The hay meadows, full of new grass, spread about him enamelled with wild flowers. 
Now and then a jackrabbit stood on its haunches and eyed him curiously. An occasional field lark piped an accompaniment to his pony’s drumming hoofs. 
The drowsy murmur of the Bonito River began to fill his ears, its winding course for miles up and down the valley marked by groves of walnut, box-elder, cottonwood, 
and willow. Here and there in the distance he had a glimpse of a white slant of rapids or a long reach of shining water. Never drawing rein, he splashed across the stream where, under shade of trees, it poured over golden gravel 
at the Baca ford. On the benches of land beyond, he kept on through the ploughed fields, at the edges of which stood the adobe houses of Mexican farmers. Through a deep gap in the bulwark of colossal yellow pifion-splotched hills ahead loomed Capitan Mountain, deep in purple sleep. On a height over which the trail climbed he turned in his saddle 
for a farewell look at Lincoln. Far across the sunlit 
valley, the little town, half-buried in blooming orchards, 
seemed a picture of peace. He wondered what was haps 
254&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qmm7k3navl1awhwsusa1mh5mqmfv4xt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133828</id>
      <parentid>15133827</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:23:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133828</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1479" sha1="f66njsh4buo9l1l0j07khm10vvwfkd4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|254|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|254}}
CHAPTER XVIII 
THE LURE OF BLACK EYES&lt;/noinclude&gt;DUE west from Lincoln the Kid rode. A mile and a half out he turned north-by-west into Baca road: Here Bonito Cafion widens into a beautiful valley. Down across the bottom-lands and vegas he passed, his horse at a swift gallop. The hay meadows, full of new grass, spread about him enamelled with wild flowers. 
Now and then a jackrabbit stood on its haunches and eyed him curiously. An occasional field lark piped an accompaniment to his pony’s drumming hoofs. 
The drowsy murmur of the Bonito River began to fill his ears, its winding course for miles up and down the valley marked by groves of walnut, box-elder, cottonwood, 
and willow. Here and there in the distance he had a glimpse of a white slant of rapids or a long reach of shining water. Never drawing rein, he splashed across the stream where, under shade of trees, it poured over golden gravel 
at the Baca ford. On the benches of land beyond, he kept on through the ploughed fields, at the edges of which stood the adobe houses of Mexican farmers. Through a deep gap in the bulwark of colossal yellow pifion-splotched hills ahead loomed Capitan Mountain, deep in purple sleep. On a height over which the trail climbed he turned in his saddle for a farewell look at Lincoln. Far across the sunlit valley, the little town, half-buried in blooming orchards, seemed a picture of peace. He wondered what was haps 
254&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>f66njsh4buo9l1l0j07khm10vvwfkd4</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/32</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846717</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131423</id>
      <parentid>15129916</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:25:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>use fl in di</comment>
      <origin>15131423</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1194" sha1="8kqmvo3wwut9b52wycanuv6dx9pdamx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|The Military Creed||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;The Military Creed&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''The Military Creed'''}}{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]
{{dent|15em|0|{{smaller|''The American Admiral in command at Samoa was asked what he thought of expansion. He is reported to have answered, &quot;I do not think; I obey orders.&quot;''}}}}

{{ppoem|
{{di|C|fl=&quot;}}APTAIN, what do you think,&quot; I asked,
:&quot;Of the part your soldiers play?&quot;
The captain answered, &quot;I do not think{{mdash}}
:I do not think{{mdash}}I obey.&quot;

&quot;Do you think you should shoot a patriot down
:And help a tyrant slay?&quot;
The captain answered, &quot;I do not think{{mdash}}
:I do not think{{mdash}}I obey.&quot;

&quot;Do you think that your conscience was meant to die
:And your brains to rot away?&quot;
The captain answered, &quot;I do not think{{mdash}}
:I do not think{{mdash}}I obey.&quot;

&quot;Then if this is your soldier's code,&quot; I cried,
:&quot;You're a mean, unmanly crew,
And with all your feathers and gilt and braid
:I am more of a man than you;

&quot;For whatever my lot on earth may be,
:And whether I swim or sink,
I can say with pride, 'I do ''not'' obey{{mdash}}
:I do ''not'' obey{{mdash}}I think!{{'&quot;}}
}}&lt;section end=&quot;The Military Creed&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|28}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8kqmvo3wwut9b52wycanuv6dx9pdamx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu/56</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846723</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131511</id>
      <parentid>15130278</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:08:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15131511</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="992" sha1="qt90oxg70u1d0kvbjcg388qby1vz0ex" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{c|ROBERT NORWOOD}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|style=margin-left:0; width:100%;|start=stanza|end=stanza|
: (''David touches the strings and sings''.)
: Down by the stream of the waters
:: Came the King, and His face was sad—
: Sad with a grief beyond belief,
:: For a bitter grief He had:
: To be a king means sorrowing—
:: A king may not be glad!

: Down by the stream of the waters
:: Came the King, and alone at night;
: His robe was torn, a crown of thorn
:: Was on His brow so white:
: They placed it there who did not care—
:: His eyes with tears were bright!

: Down by the stream of the waters,
:: Where it flows through the valley of death,
: He came—the King—all sorrowing;
:: A sob was in His breath:
: They broke His heart who stood apart—
:: The crowd that wondereth!

: (''Saul is shaken with tears. Michal steals to his side, soothing him''.)
Saul—O King of Sorrow! {{...}} David, who is He?
David—Messias! whom our father Jacob saw.
Saul—A king may not be glad!}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|—48—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Swords and Plowshares/Russia and America</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4846728</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131480</id>
      <parentid>15130025</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:50:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>fix next link</comment>
      <origin>15131480</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="675" sha1="0ytegubtnnp16zus2sariruq4unxwdq" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = Russia and America, August {{oldstyle|29, 1898}}
 | previous    = [[../The Bugler in the Rear/]]
 | next        = [[../The Peace Congress/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = The poem refers to Tsar Nicholas II's &quot;Rescript for Peace&quot; made public on August 28, 1898, which called for an international conference on world peace.
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf&quot; from=41 to=42 fromsection=&quot;Russia and America&quot; tosection=&quot;Russia and America&quot; /&gt;
{{ppb}}
{{smallrefs}}</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Esperanto Teacher.pdf/165</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846752</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131852</id>
      <parentid>15130677</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:29:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131852</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2458" sha1="qf25tvprp8tgwu7ppf95adzmahz2qb0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|142}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''entertain''', amuzi; regali.

'''enthusiasm''', entuziasmo.

'''entice''', logi, allogi.

'''entwine''', kunplekti.

'''envelop''', envolvi.

'''envelope''', koverto.

'''environs''', ĉirkaǔaĵo.

'''equivalent''', ekvivalenta, egala.

'''erase''', trastreki; forfroti.

'''erect''', vertikala; rekta; starigi.

'''errand''', komisio.

'''escape''', forkuri, forsaviĝi.

'''establish''', fondi, starigi.

'''estate''', (''land'') bieno.

'''esteem''', estimi.

'''estimate''', taksi.

'''eternal''', eterna, ĉiama.

'''ethical''', etika.

'''eve''', antaǔtago. 

'''even''', eĉ; parnombra; ebena.

'''event''', okazo.

'''evil''', malbono, peko.

'''exact''', gusta, preciza; postuli.

'''examine''', ekzameni, esplori.

'''examination''', ekzameno.

'''example''', ekzemplo.

'''exceed''', superi.

'''except''',  krom, esceptinte; escepte.

'''exchange''', intersangi. '''the —''', Borso.

'''excite''', eksciti.

'''exclusive''', eksklusiva.

'''excursion''', ekskurso.

'''execute''', efektivigi; (''— a criminal''), ekzekuti.

'''exercise''', ekzerci. '''-book''', kajero.

'''exhaust''', konsumi, elĉerpi.

'''exhibition''', ekspozicio.

'''exhort''', admoni.

'''expect''', atendi. 

'''expel''', elpeli.

'''experience''', sperto.

'''experiment''', eksperimento.

'''expert''', lerta, kompetenta.

'''explode''', eksplod’-i, -igi.

'''express''', esprimi, ekspreso.

'''extend''', etendi.

'''exterminate''', ekstermi.

'''extinguish''', estingi.

'''extract''', ekstrakti, eltiri.

'''extraordinary''', eksterordinara

'''eye''', okulo. '''-brow''', brovo, '''-lid''', palpebro.

{{c|'''F'''}}

'''fable''', fablo.

'''fact''', fakto. '''in—''', ja, efektive

'''factory''', fabrikejo, faktorio.

'''fade''', velki.

'''fail''', manki; malprosperi, banro

'''faint''', sveni.

'''fair''', foiro; blonda; justa.

'''fairy''', feino, feo.

'''faith''', fido, kredo.

'''falcon''', falko.

'''false''', falsa, malvera.

'''fame''', gloro, renomo; famo.

'''familiar''', kutima, intima.

'''family''', familio.

'''fan''', ventum‘i, -ilo.

'''fare''', farti; veturpago.

'''farm''', farmi (''have on lease'') farmobieno.

'''fashion''', modo, maniero, fason

fast, fast’i, o; rapida.

fasten, alligi, fiksi.

fat, gras’a, -o; sebo,

fatal, fatala, mortiga.

fate, sorto.

fathom, sondi, klafto.

fault, kulpo; difekto; eraro.

favour, favori, komplezo,

feast, regalo, festeno; festo.

feather, plumo.

feature, trajto.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qf25tvprp8tgwu7ppf95adzmahz2qb0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131854</id>
      <parentid>15131852</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:30:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131854</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2533" sha1="39scvgvl4sjd6i65hka6368a8973174" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|142}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''entertain''', amuzi; regali.

'''enthusiasm''', entuziasmo.

'''entice''', logi, allogi.

'''entwine''', kunplekti.

'''envelop''', envolvi.

'''envelope''', koverto.

'''environs''', ĉirkaǔaĵo.

'''equivalent''', ekvivalenta, egala.

'''erase''', trastreki; forfroti.

'''erect''', vertikala; rekta; starigi.

'''errand''', komisio.

'''escape''', forkuri, forsaviĝi.

'''establish''', fondi, starigi.

'''estate''', (''land'') bieno.

'''esteem''', estimi.

'''estimate''', taksi.

'''eternal''', eterna, ĉiama.

'''ethical''', etika.

'''eve''', antaǔtago. 

'''even''', eĉ; parnombra; ebena.

'''event''', okazo.

'''evil''', malbono, peko.

'''exact''', gusta, preciza; postuli.

'''examine''', ekzameni, esplori.

'''examination''', ekzameno.

'''example''', ekzemplo.

'''exceed''', superi.

'''except''',  krom, esceptinte; escepte.

'''exchange''', intersangi. '''the —''', Borso.

'''excite''', eksciti.

'''exclusive''', eksklusiva.

'''excursion''', ekskurso.

'''execute''', efektivigi; (''— a criminal''), ekzekuti.

'''exercise''', ekzerci. '''-book''', kajero.

'''exhaust''', konsumi, elĉerpi.

'''exhibition''', ekspozicio.

'''exhort''', admoni.

'''expect''', atendi. 

'''expel''', elpeli.

'''experience''', sperto.

'''experiment''', eksperimento.

'''expert''', lerta, kompetenta.

'''explode''', eksplod’-i, -igi.

'''express''', esprimi, ekspreso.

'''extend''', etendi.

'''exterminate''', ekstermi.

'''extinguish''', estingi.

'''extract''', ekstrakti, eltiri.

'''extraordinary''', eksterordinara

'''eye''', okulo. '''-brow''', brovo, '''-lid''', palpebro.

{{c|'''F'''}}

'''fable''', fablo.

'''fact''', fakto. '''in—''', ja, efektive

'''factory''', fabrikejo, faktorio.

'''fade''', velki.

'''fail''', manki; malprosperi, banro

'''faint''', sveni.

'''fair''', foiro; blonda; justa.

'''fairy''', feino, feo.

'''faith''', fido, kredo.

'''falcon''', falko.

'''false''', falsa, malvera.

'''fame''', gloro, renomo; famo.

'''familiar''', kutima, intima.

'''family''', familio.

'''fan''', ventum‘i, -ilo.

'''fare''', farti; veturpago.

'''farm''', farmi (''have on lease'') farmobieno.

'''fashion''', modo, maniero, fasono

'''fast''', fast’i, o; rapida.

'''fasten''', alligi, fiksi.

'''fat''', gras’a, -o; sebo,

'''fatal''', fatala, mortiga.

'''fate''', sorto.

'''fathom''', sondi, klafto.

'''fault''', kulpo; difekto; eraro.

'''favour''', favori, komplezo.

'''feast''', regalo, festeno; festo.

'''feather''', plumo.

'''feature''', trajto.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>39scvgvl4sjd6i65hka6368a8973174</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/162</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846779</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131780</id>
      <parentid>15130105</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:38:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>del hyphen</comment>
      <origin>15131780</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1065" sha1="itvccnke4zmeabd8ojnndueyf9bj712" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|132|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;stone. He might well call them toys, every one being in itself a gem. The castles, surmounting superbly chased elephants, were filled with warriors in the act of discharging arrows from their bended bows; the knights were cased in armour, with their visors up, and mounted on beautifully caparisoned horses; mitred bishops appeared in their flowing robes; and every pawn was varied in character and splendour of costume, each figure furnishing a specimen of the dress of some different nation. Such workmanship had never before left China: art and taste had been exerted to the utmost to devise such rare specimens of skill and elegance. The emperor was as much pleased with his present as I should have been with a new plaything. He told me he had just finished a game of chess with Lady Malcolm, with these most beautiful things, and that she had beaten him; he thought, solely from his attention having been occupied in admiring the men, instead of considering&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>itvccnke4zmeabd8ojnndueyf9bj712</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Christmas tree (Cummings)</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4846836</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131737</id>
      <parentid>15131376</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:04:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>RaboKarbakian</username>
        <id>2427564</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131737</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="546" sha1="lzo5pcnj90zaighky2dr9464180zu5a" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = Christmas tree
 | author     = Edward Estlin Cummings
 | translator = 
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1928
 | cover      = Christmas Tree-EEC-0001.png
 | notes      = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Christmas Tree (Cummings).djvu&quot; include=7 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;Christmas Tree (Cummings).djvu&quot; include=10 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;Christmas Tree (Cummings).djvu&quot; include=11,15-19,22-23 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;Christmas Tree (Cummings).djvu&quot; include=24 /&gt;

{{PD-US|1962}}
[[Category:Christmas]]</text>
      <sha1>lzo5pcnj90zaighky2dr9464180zu5a</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>NLRB v. Boeing Co.</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4846922</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131565</id>
      <parentid>15130471</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:39:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JoeSolo22</username>
        <id>3028097</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131565</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2516" sha1="n1iee25czd84lvnwtsiu0eo0ustvts4" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title = NLRB v. Boeing Co.
 | author = 
 | section = Syllabus
 | previous = 
 | next = 
 | year = 1973
 | portal = Supreme Court of the United States
 | wikipedia = 
 | notes = 
}}
 {{USSCcase
    |dissent_author1 = Burger
    |dissent_author2 = Douglas
    }}
{{CaseCaption 
| court = Supreme Court of the United States
| volume = 412
| reporter = U.S.
| page = 67
| party1 = National Labor Relations Board
| party2 = Boeing Co. {{smaller|et al.}}
| lowercourt = Certiorari to the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit
| argued = March 26, 1973
| decided = May 21, 1973
| case no = 71-1607.
}}
&lt;div class='courtopinion'&gt;
The adjudication by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) under [[United States Code/Title 29/Chapter 7/Subchapter II#§ 158. Unfair labor practices.|§ 8 (b)(1)(A)]] of the [[National Labor Relations Act]] of an unfair labor practice allegedly committed by a union does not include authority to determine whether the amount of a disciplinary fine levied by the union against a member is reasonable, the issue being one of internal union affairs over which the NLRB exercises no jurisdiction. Pp. 71-78.

148 U.S. App. D.C. 119, 459 F.2d 1143, reversed.


REHNQUIST, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which BRENNAN, STEWART, WHITE, MARSHALL, and POWELL, JJ., joined. BURGER, C.J., filed a dissenting opinion, ''post'', p. 78. DOUGLAS, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which BURGER, C.J., and BLACKMUN, J., joined, ''post'', p. 79.


''Norton J. Come'' argued the cause for petitioner. With him on the brief were ''Solicitor General Griswold, Peter G. Nash'', and ''Patrick Hardin''.

''Samuel Lang'' argued the cause for respondent Boeing Co. With him on the brief, were ''C. Dale Stout'' and ''Frederick A. Kullman. Bernard Dunau'' argued the cause for respondent Booster Lodge No. 405; International Association of Machinists &amp; Aerospace Workers, AFL-CIO. With him on the briefs were ''Plato E. Papps, Louis P. Poulton'', and ''C. Paul Barker''.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;/&gt;


{{Reflist|refs=

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;&gt;''J. Albert Woll, Laurence Gold'', and ''Thomas E. Harris'' filed a brief for the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations as ''amicus curiae'' urging reversal.
{{paragraph break}}
''Milton Smith, Gerard C. Smetana'', and ''Jerry Kronenberg'' filed a brief for the Chamber of Commerce of the United States as ''amicus curiae'' urging affirmance.
&lt;/ref&gt;
}}
&lt;/div&gt;
__NOTOC__
[[Category:1973 court decisions]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Euclid's Elements 1714 Barrow translation.djvu/155</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846933</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132175</id>
      <parentid>15130519</parentid>
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        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1680" sha1="d561wxzozstmj8bfduvwfs7lzyqfbet" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|EUCLIDE's Elements.}} 

XIX. A Cube is that number which is equally 
equal equally, or,which is contained under three 
equal numbers. Let A be the ſide of a Cube; the Cube 
is thus noted, AAA, or Ac. or A'. 

''In this definition, and the three foregoing, unity is a number.'' 

XX. Numbers are proportional, when the firſt 
is as multiple of the ſecond, as the third is of 
the fourth; or, the ſame part; or, when a part 
of the firſt number measures the ſecond, and the 
ſame part of the third meaſures the fourth, equally:
and on the contrary. ''So A. B :: C. D, that is, 3. 9 :: 5. 15. ''

XXJ. Like plane, and ſolid numbers are they, 
which have their ſides proportional : Namely
not all the ſides, but ſome. 

XXII. A perfect number is that which is equal 
to all its aliquot parts. 

''As 6 and 28. But a number that is leſs than its aliquot-parts is called an Abounding number; and a greater a Diminutive; ſo 12 is an Abounding, 15 a Diminutive number.'' 

XXIII. One number is ſaid to measure another,
by that number, which, when it multiplies,
or is multiplied by it, it produces. 

''In Diviſion, a unit is to the quotient as the diviſor is to the dividend. Note, that a number placed under another with a line betwixt them,ſigniſies Divisſion: So {{sfrac|A|B}} = A divided by B, and {{sfrac|CA|B}} = C x A divided by B. ''

Two numbers are called Terms or Roots of 
Proportion, leſſer than which cannot be found 
in the ſame proportion. 

{{c|''Poſtulates or Petitions.''}} 
{{sc|1.}}{{di|T}}Hat numbers equal or manifold to any 
number may be taken at pleaſure. 

{{sc|2.}} That a greater number may be taken than 
any number whatſoever.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Mirror of Alchimy (1597, mirrorofalchimy00baco).djvu/38</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846937</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132002</id>
      <parentid>15130540</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:37:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132002</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1452" sha1="q9j7drz19a7yt7vod6huetbzlklmilq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{running header|28|{{nil}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|&lt;&gt;{{xx-larger|The Booke of the Se­crets}}
&lt;&gt;{{larger|of Alchimie, composed by Galid}}
&lt;&gt;{{larger|the sonne of ''Iazich'', translated out of}} 
&lt;&gt;Hebrew into Arabick, and out of 
&lt;&gt;{{fine|''Arabick into Latine, and out''}}
&lt;&gt;{{fine|''of Latin into English.''}}

&lt;&gt;''The Preface of the difficultie of the Art.''}}

{{di|T}}{{uc|h}}ankes be giuen to God the Creator of all things, who hath conducted vs, beautified vs, instructed vs, and giuen vs knowledge and vnderstanding: Except the Lorde should keepe and guide vs, wee should bee like vagabonds, without guide or teacher: yea, we shuld know nothing in the world, vnlesse he taught vs: that is, the beginning, and knowledge it selfe of all things, by his power and goodnes ouer his peo­ple. He directeth and instructeth whom he wil, and with mercie reduceth into the way of iu­stice: for hee hath sent his messengers into the darke places, and made plaine the wayes, and with his mercy replenished such as loue him. Know brother, that this our mastery and honou­rable office of the secret Stone, is a secret of the secrets of God, which hee hath concealed from his people, neither would he reueale it to any, saue to those, who like sonnes haue faythfully deserued it, knowing both his goodnesse and greatnesse: for to him that desireth a secret of God, this secret masterie is more necessary then any other. And those wise men who haue at-&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|tained}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Euclid's Elements 1714 Barrow translation.djvu/33</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846939</id>
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        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1251" sha1="gb9d8c9oos90g67t344bag89t3yd153" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|EUCLIDE's ''Elements.''}} 
{|
|-
|line CF cutting the ſides of the angle given any ||
|-
|ways; ''b'' make AG{{--}}CD;upon AG ''c'' raiſe a trian- ||b 3. I 
|-
|gle equilateral to the former CDF, ſo that AH be|| c 21. I. 
|-
|equal to DF, and GH to CF. then ſhall you have ||
|-
|the angle A ''d'' = D. ''Which was to he done.''|| d 8. 1. 
|-
|{{c|PROP. XXIV.}}
|-
|}

''If two triangles ABC, DEF have two ſides of the one triangle AB, AC equal to two ſides of the other triangle DE, DF, each to other, and have the angle A greater than the angle EDF contained under the equal right lines, they ſhall alſo have the baſe BC greater than the baſe EF.''

{|
|-
''a'' Let the angle EDG be made equal to A,||a 23. 1. 
|-
|and the fide DG ''b'' = DF ''c'' = AC; and let EG,|| b 1. 
|-
|and FG be joined. || c hyp. 
|-
|1. ''Caſe''. Iſ EG fall above EF ; becauſe AE ''d''= ||d hyp. 
|-
|DE, and AC''e'' = DG, and the angle A''e'' = EDG,|| e conjtr. 
|-
|''f'' therefore is BC = EG. But becauſe DF''e'' = DG,|| f 4. 1. 
|-
|''g,'' therefore is the angle DFG = DGF; ''h'' therefore|| g 5. 1. 
|-
|is the angle DFG = FFG, and by conſequence ||h 9. ax. 
|-
|the angle EFG''b'' = EGF, ''k'' wherefore EG(BC)|| k 19. 1. 
|-
|= EF. ||
|}
2.Caſe.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132179</id>
      <parentid>15132177</parentid>
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        <id>8435</id>
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      <text bytes="1253" sha1="1tfimounqm1o7jmn5gp1i3qp8i609yf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|EUCLIDE's ''Elements.''}} 
{|
|-
|line CF cutting the ſides of the angle given any ||
|-
|ways; ''b'' make AG{{--}}CD;upon AG ''c'' raiſe a trian- ||b 3. I 
|-
|gle equilateral to the former CDF, ſo that AH be|| c 21. I. 
|-
|equal to DF, and GH to CF. then ſhall you have ||
|-
|the angle A ''d'' = D. ''Which was to he done.''|| d 8. 1. 
|-
|{{c|PROP. XXIV.}}
|-
|}

''If two triangles ABC, DEF have two ſides of the one triangle AB, AC equal to two ſides of the other triangle DE, DF, each to other, and have the angle A greater than the angle EDF contained under the equal right lines, they ſhall alſo have the baſe BC greater than the baſe EF.''

{|
|-
|''a'' Let the angle EDG be made equal to A,||a 23. 1. 
|-
|and the fide DG ''b'' = DF ''c'' = AC; and let EG,|| b 1. 
|-
|and FG be joined. || c hyp. 
|-
|1. ''Caſe''. Iſ EG fall above EF ; becauſe AE ''d''= ||d hyp. 
|-
|DE, and AC''e'' = DG, and the angle A''e'' = EDG,|| e conjtr. 
|-
|''f'' therefore is BC = EG. But becauſe DF''e'' = DG,|| f 4. 1. 
|-
|''g,'' therefore is the angle DFG = DGF; ''h'' therefore|| g 5. 1. 
|-
|is the angle DFG = FFG, and by conſequence ||h 9. ax. 
|-
|the angle EFG''b'' = EGF, ''k'' wherefore EG(BC)|| k 19. 1. 
|-
| = EF. ||
|}
2.Caſe.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Euclid's Elements 1714 Barrow translation.djvu/34</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846973</id>
    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:33:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Adding diagrams</comment>
      <origin>15131630</origin>
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      <text bytes="1389" sha1="axzrka20ytgkvsk8x5v5giie2mu9mqf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;
2. Caſe. If the baſe EF falls in the ſame place 
1 9. ax. with EG,''l'' it is evident that EG (BC) = EF. 

3. Caſe. If EG fall below EF, then becauſe DG 
m 21. 1. + GE''m'' = DF + FE, if from both DG, DF be 
taken away, which are equal, EG (BC) remains 
n 5. ax. n = EF. ''Which was to be demonstrated.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXV.}} }}
[[File:Euclid-diagram-p34-1.png|thumb|A diagram from Page 34 of Euclid's elements]]

''If two triangles ABC, 
DEF have two ſides AB, 
AC equal to two ſides 
DE, DF, each to other, 
and have the baſe BC 
greater than the bafe EF, 
they ſhall alſo have the angle A  contained under the 
equal right lines greater than the angle D.'' 

For if the angle A be ſaid to be equal to D, ''a'' 
then is the bafe BC = EF, which is againſt the 
Hypothesis. If it be ſaid the angle A &gt; D,then ''b'' 
will be BC &gt; EF, which is alfo againſt the Hyp. 
Therefore BC &lt; EF. ''Which was to be dem.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXVI.}} }} 
[[File:Diagram2.png|thumb|A diagram from Page 34 of Euclid's elements]]

''If two triangles BAC, EDG have two angles of the 
one B, C equal to the two angles of the other E, DGE, 
each to his correſpondent angle, and have alſo one ſide 
of the one equal to one ſide of the other, either that ſide 
which lyeth betwixt the equal angles, or that which is 
ſubtended under one of the equal angles; the other ſides 

alſo&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131632</id>
      <parentid>15131630</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:35:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Adding diagrams</comment>
      <origin>15131632</origin>
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      <text bytes="1289" sha1="mjqhvir01aqxv8oglndfanxho3xyaj9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;
2. Caſe. If the baſe EF falls in the ſame place 
1 9. ax. with EG,''l'' it is evident that EG (BC) = EF. 

3. Caſe. If EG fall below EF, then becauſe DG 
m 21. 1. + GE''m'' = DF + FE, if from both DG, DF be 
taken away, which are equal, EG (BC) remains 
n 5. ax. n = EF. ''Which was to be demonstrated.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXV.}} }}
[[File:Euclid-diagram-p34-1.png]]

''If two triangles ABC, 
DEF have two ſides AB, 
AC equal to two ſides 
DE, DF, each to other, 
and have the baſe BC 
greater than the bafe EF, 
they ſhall alſo have the angle A  contained under the 
equal right lines greater than the angle D.'' 

For if the angle A be ſaid to be equal to D, ''a'' 
then is the bafe BC = EF, which is againſt the 
Hypothesis. If it be ſaid the angle A &gt; D,then ''b'' 
will be BC &gt; EF, which is alfo againſt the Hyp. 
Therefore BC &lt; EF. ''Which was to be dem.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXVI.}} }} 
[[File:Diagram2.png]]

''If two triangles BAC, EDG have two angles of the 
one B, C equal to the two angles of the other E, DGE, 
each to his correſpondent angle, and have alſo one ſide 
of the one equal to one ſide of the other, either that ſide 
which lyeth betwixt the equal angles, or that which is 
ſubtended under one of the equal angles; the other ſides 

alſo&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15131635</id>
      <parentid>15131632</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:36:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Fixing images covering content</comment>
      <origin>15131635</origin>
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      <text bytes="1301" sha1="1uw5hbf1tsv6xom9k5tazg0anfcw6g9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;
2. Caſe. If the baſe EF falls in the ſame place 
1 9. ax. with EG,''l'' it is evident that EG (BC) = EF. 

3. Caſe. If EG fall below EF, then becauſe DG 
m 21. 1. + GE''m'' = DF + FE, if from both DG, DF be 
taken away, which are equal, EG (BC) remains 
n 5. ax. n = EF. ''Which was to be demonstrated.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXV.}} }}
[[File:Euclid-diagram-p34-1.png|360px]]

''If two triangles ABC, 
DEF have two ſides AB, 
AC equal to two ſides 
DE, DF, each to other, 
and have the baſe BC 
greater than the bafe EF, 
they ſhall alſo have the angle A  contained under the 
equal right lines greater than the angle D.'' 

For if the angle A be ſaid to be equal to D, ''a'' 
then is the bafe BC = EF, which is againſt the 
Hypothesis. If it be ſaid the angle A &gt; D,then ''b'' 
will be BC &gt; EF, which is alfo againſt the Hyp. 
Therefore BC &lt; EF. ''Which was to be dem.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXVI.}} }} 
[[File:Diagram2.png|360px]]

''If two triangles BAC, EDG have two angles of the 
one B, C equal to the two angles of the other E, DGE, 
each to his correſpondent angle, and have alſo one ſide 
of the one equal to one ſide of the other, either that ſide 
which lyeth betwixt the equal angles, or that which is 
ſubtended under one of the equal angles; the other ſides 

alſo&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1uw5hbf1tsv6xom9k5tazg0anfcw6g9</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131939</id>
      <parentid>15131635</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:17:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Somepinkdude</username>
        <id>3173880</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131939</origin>
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      <text bytes="1414" sha1="2hl4qr67o3xj3k2xgj8jbgdyv2b645k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;
2. Caſe. If the baſe EF falls in the ſame place 
{{float left|1 9. ax.&lt;br&gt;}} with EG,''l'' it is evident that EG (BC) = EF. 

3. Caſe. If EG fall below EF, then becauſe DG 
{{float left|m 21. 1.&lt;br&gt;}} + GE''m'' = DF + FE, if from both DG, DF be 
taken away, which are equal, EG (BC) remains 
{{float left|n 5. ax.&lt;br&gt;}} n = EF. ''Which was to be demonstrated.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXV.}} }}
[[File:Euclid-diagram-p34-1.png|360px]]

''If two triangles ABC, 
DEF have two ſides AB, 
AC equal to two ſides 
DE, DF, each to other, 
and have the baſe BC 
greater than the bafe EF, 
they ſhall alſo have the angle A  contained under the 
equal right lines greater than the angle D.'' 

{{float left|a 4. 1.&lt;br&gt;}} For if the angle A be ſaid to be equal to D, ''a'' 
then is the baſe BC = EF, which is againſt the 
{{float left|b 24. 1.&lt;br&gt;}} Hypothesis. If it be ſaid the angle A &gt; D,then ''b'' 
will be BC &gt; EF, which is alfo againſt the Hyp. 
Therefore BC &lt; EF. ''Which was to be dem.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXVI.}} }} 
[[File:Diagram2.png|360px]]

''If two triangles BAC, EDG have two angles of the 
one B, C equal to the two angles of the other E, DGE, 
each to his correſpondent angle, and have alſo one ſide 
of the one equal to one ſide of the other, either that ſide 
which lyeth betwixt the equal angles, or that which is 
ſubtended under one of the equal angles; the other ſides 

alſo&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2hl4qr67o3xj3k2xgj8jbgdyv2b645k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132204</id>
      <parentid>15131939</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:51:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15132204</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1442" sha1="ngn45j3jtxwgahjpic4hosy0xmfbwrv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;
2. Caſe. If the baſe EF falls in the ſame place 
{{float left|1 9. ax.&lt;br&gt;}} with EG,''l'' it is evident that EG (BC) = EF. 

3. Caſe. If EG fall below EF, then becauſe DG 
{{float left|m 21. 1.&lt;br&gt;}} + GE''m'' = DF + FE, if from both DG, DF be 
taken away, which are equal, EG (BC) remains 
{{float left|n 5. ax.&lt;br&gt;}} n = EF. ''Which was to be demonstrated.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXV.}} }}
[[File:Euclid-diagram-p34-1.png|360px]]

''If two triangles ABC'', 
''DEF have two ſides AB'', 
''AC equal to two ſides'' 
''DE, DF, each to other'', 
''and have the baſe BC'' 
''greater than the bafe EF'', 
''they ſhall alſo have the angle A  contained under the'' 
''equal right lines greater than the angle D.'' 

{{float left|a 4. 1.&lt;br&gt;}} For if the angle A be ſaid to be equal to D, ''a'' 
then is the baſe BC = EF, which is againſt the 
{{float left|b 24. 1.&lt;br&gt;}} Hypothesis. If it be ſaid the angle A &gt; D,then ''b'' 
will be BC &gt; EF, which is alfo againſt the Hyp. 
Therefore BC &lt; EF. ''Which was to be dem.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXVI.}} }} 
[[File:Diagram2.png|360px]]

''If two triangles BAC, EDG have two angles of the 
one B, C equal to the two angles of the other E, DGE, 
each to his correſpondent angle, and have alſo one ſide 
of the one equal to one ſide of the other, either that ſide 
which lyeth betwixt the equal angles, or that which is 
ſubtended under one of the equal angles; the other ſides 

alſo&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ngn45j3jtxwgahjpic4hosy0xmfbwrv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132207</id>
      <parentid>15132204</parentid>
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      <text bytes="1477" sha1="t9253flpwft0pap2wepuoz3djwoy1ta" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Somepinkdude&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;
2. Caſe. If the baſe EF falls in the ſame place 
{{float left|1 9. ax.&lt;br&gt;}} with EG,''l'' it is evident that EG (BC) = EF. 

3. Caſe. If EG fall below EF, then becauſe DG 
{{float left|m 21. 1.&lt;br&gt;}} + GE''m'' = DF + FE, if from both DG, DF be 
taken away, which are equal, EG (BC) remains 
{{float left|n 5. ax.&lt;br&gt;}} n = EF. ''Which was to be demonstrated.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXV.}} }}
[[File:Euclid-diagram-p34-1.png|360px]]

''If two triangles ABC'', 
''DEF have two ſides AB'', 
''AC equal to two ſides'' 
''DE, DF, each to other'', 
''and have the baſe BC'' 
''greater than the bafe EF'', 
''they ſhall alſo have the angle A  contained under the'' 
''equal right lines greater than the angle D.'' 

{{float left|a 4. 1.&lt;br&gt;}} For if the angle A be ſaid to be equal to D, ''a'' 
then is the baſe BC = EF, which is againſt the 
{{float left|b 24. 1.&lt;br&gt;}} Hypothesis. If it be ſaid the angle A &gt; D,then ''b'' 
will be BC &gt; EF, which is alfo againſt the Hyp. 
Therefore BC &lt; EF. ''Which was to be dem.'' 

{{c|{{larger|PROP. XXVI.}} }} 
[[File:Diagram2.png|360px]]

''If two triangles BAC, EDG have two angles of the'' 
''one B, C equal to the two angles of the other E, DGE,''
''each to his correſpondent angle, and have alſo one ſide'' 
''of the one equal to one ſide of the other, either that ſide''
''which lyeth betwixt the equal angles, or that which is'' 
''ſubtended under one of the equal angles; the other ſides''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|''alſo''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/851</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4846982</id>
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      <text bytes="3123" sha1="92h6aqoysrytprad1nsn76rvpv5ukbi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE?|817}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;reason is at work — so that when I hastily light the candle I may see some 
human face by my side — because — because — I am ashamed to confess it — because I am afraid of being alone. 

Oh! you don't understand me yet. 

I am not afraid of any danger; if a man were to come into the room I should kill him without trembling. I 
am not afraid of ghosts, nor do I believe in the supernatural, I am not afraid of dead people, for I believe in 
the total annihilation of every being that disappears from the face of this earth. 

Well, — yes, well, it must be told; I am afraid of myself, afraid of that horrible sensation of incomprehensible fear. 

You may laugh, if you like. It is terrible and I cannot get over it. I am afraid of the walls, of the furniture, of 
the familiar objects, which are animated, as far as I am concerned, by a kind of animal life. Above all, I am afraid of 
my own dreadful thoughts, of my reason, which seems as if it were about 
to leave me, driven away by a mysterious and invisible agony. 

At first I feel a vague uneasiness in my mind which causes a cold shiver to 
run all over me. I look round, and of course nothing is to be seen, and I wish there were something there, no 
matter what, as long as it were something tangible: I am frightened, merely because I cannot understand my own terror. 

If I speak, I am afraid of my own voice. If I walk, I am afraid of I know not what, behind the door, behind the 
curtains, in the cupboard, or under my bed, and yet all the time I know there 
is nothing anywhere, and I turn round suddenly because I am afraid of what 
is behind me, although there is nothing there, and I know it. 

I get agitated ; I feel that my fear increases, and so I shut myself up in my 
own room, get into bed, and hide under the clothes, and there, cowering down 
rolled into a ball, I close my eyes in despair and remain thus for an indefinite 
time, remembering that my candle is alight on the table by my bedside, and 
that I ought to put it out, and yet — I dare not do it! 

It is very terrible, is it not, to be like that? 

Formerly I felt nothing of all that; I came home quite comfortably, and
went up and down in my rooms without anything disturbing my calmness of 
mind. Had anyone told me that I should be attacked by a malady — for I 
can call it nothing else — of most improbable fear, such a stupid and terrible 
malady as it is, I should have laughed outright. I was certainly never afraid 
of opening the door in the dark; I used to go to bed slowly without locking it, 
and never got up in the middle of the night to make sure that everything was firmly closed. 

It began last year in a very strange manner, on a damp autumn evening. 
When my servant had left the room, after I had dined, I asked myself what 
I was going to do. I walked up and down my room for some time, feeling 
tired without any reason for it, unable to work, and without enough energy to 
read. A fine rain was falling, and I felt unhappy, a prey to one of those 
fits of casual despondency which make use feel inclined to cry, or to talk, no&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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'''feel''', palpi, senti.

'''felt''', felto.

'''female''', ino, virinseksa.

'''fence''', skermi; palisaro.

'''ferment''', fermenti.

'''fern''', filiko.

perret, casputoro.

herry-boat, pramo.

pester, ulcerigi, pusi.

iestival, festo,

jfeudal, feudala.

htever, febro,

sibre, fibro.

i tifro.

fig, figo.

‘ight, batal‘i, -o.

“ngure, cifero ; figuro.

‘igurative, figura.

jule, fajli, -ilo.

‘tlm, filmo, tavoleto.

dtlter, filtr’i, -ilo.

inn, nagilo.

fnne, delikata ; monpuno,

fir, abio,

qire, brulo, fajro; (gun) pafi.

y:ireplace, kameno, fajrejo.

fireworks, artfajrajo:

firm, firma, fortika; firmo.

slish, fis’o, -i, -kapti.

fist, pugno.

sit, atako. —for, tatiga; kon-
vena, deca.

fix, fiksi.

lake, loko, negero.

jiame, flami.

idannel, flanelo.

tat, plata,

IHatter, flati.

idavour, gusto.

ax, lino.

jfea, pulo,

jlesh, (#eat) viando; karno.

jtint, siliko.

(mento.
ebena; aparta-

flit, flirti. :

float, nagi ;ysurnagi.

flock, aro, pastataro, Safaro.

flog, skur@i.

flood, superakvegi.

floor, planko, etago.

flour, faruno.

flow, flui.

flower, flor’o, -i. bed, bedo,

fluid, fluajo.

flutter, flugeti, flirti.

fiy, niuSo; flugi.

fog, nebulo,

fold, fald‘i, -o.

follow, sekvi.

Yondle, dorloti, karesi.

food, nutrajo.

fool, malsagulo, 5

foot, piedo; futo, man, lakeo.
-path, trotuaro, piedvojeto,

forage, turago.

forehead, frunto.

foreign, ali’,
fremda,

forest, arbarego.

forge, forgi.

forget, forgesi.

forgive, pardoni,

formidable, timeginda.

formulate, formuli.

fortress, tortikajo.

fortunate, felica.

foundation, fundamento.

foundry, fandejo.

fountain, fontano.

fowl, kortbirdo.

fox, vulpo.

frame, kadro.

freckle, lentugo.

free, liber‘a, -igi; senpaga.

freeze, frostigi, glaci‘igi, -igi.

frequent, ofta ; vizitadi.

fringe, frango.

fritter, tritajo.

ekster’-landa,

[zoto.
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'''felt''', felto.

'''female''', ino, virinseksa.

'''fence''', skermi; palisaro.

'''ferment''', fermenti.

'''fern''', filiko.

'''ferret''', ĉasputoro.

'''ferry-boat''', pramo.

'''fester''', ulceriĝi, pusi.

'''festival''', festo,

'''feudal''', feǔdala.

'''fever''', febro.

'''fibre''', fibro.

'''fife''', fifro.

'''fig''', figo.

'''fight''', batal‘i, -o.

'''figure''', cifero; figuro.

'''figurative''', figura.

'''file''', fajli, -ilo.

'''film''', filmo, tavoleto.

'''filter''', filtr’i, -ilo.

'''fin''', naĝilo.

'''fine''', delikata; monpuno,

'''fir''', abio,

'''fire''', brulo, fajro; (''gun'') pafi.

'''fireplace''', kameno, fajrejo.

'''fireworks''', artfajraĵo:

'''firm''', firma, fortika; firmo.

'''fish''', fiŝ’o, -i, -kapti.

'''fist''', pugno.

'''fit''', atako. '''—for''', taǔga; konvena, deca.

'''fix''', fiksi.

'''flake''', floko, neĝero.

jiame, flami.

idannel, flanelo.

tat, plata,

IHatter, flati.

idavour, gusto.

ax, lino.

jfea, pulo,

jlesh, (#eat) viando; karno.

jtint, siliko.

(mento.
ebena; aparta-

flit, flirti. :

float, nagi ;ysurnagi.

flock, aro, pastataro, Safaro.

flog, skur@i.

flood, superakvegi.

floor, planko, etago.

flour, faruno.

flow, flui.

flower, flor’o, -i. bed, bedo,

fluid, fluajo.

flutter, flugeti, flirti.

fiy, niuSo; flugi.

fog, nebulo,

fold, fald‘i, -o.

follow, sekvi.

Yondle, dorloti, karesi.

food, nutrajo.

fool, malsagulo, 5

foot, piedo; futo, man, lakeo.
-path, trotuaro, piedvojeto,

forage, turago.

forehead, frunto.

foreign, ali’,
fremda,

forest, arbarego.

forge, forgi.

forget, forgesi.

forgive, pardoni,

formidable, timeginda.

formulate, formuli.

fortress, tortikajo.

fortunate, felica.

foundation, fundamento.

foundry, fandejo.

fountain, fontano.

fowl, kortbirdo.

fox, vulpo.

frame, kadro.

freckle, lentugo.

free, liber‘a, -igi; senpaga.

freeze, frostigi, glaci‘igi, -igi.

frequent, ofta ; vizitadi.

fringe, frango.

fritter, tritajo.

ekster’-landa,

[zoto.
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'''ferment''', fermenti.

'''fern''', filiko.

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'''ferry-boat''', pramo.

'''fester''', ulceriĝi, pusi.

'''festival''', festo,

'''feudal''', feǔdala.

'''fever''', febro.

'''fibre''', fibro.

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'''fig''', figo.

'''fight''', batal‘i, -o.

'''figure''', cifero; figuro.

'''figurative''', figura.

'''file''', fajli, -ilo.

'''film''', filmo, tavoleto.

'''filter''', filtr’i, -ilo.

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'''fir''', abio,

'''fire''', brulo, fajro; (''gun'') pafi.

'''fireplace''', kameno, fajrejo.

'''fireworks''', artfajraĵo:

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'''fist''', pugno.

'''fit''', atako. '''—for''', taǔga; konvena, deca.

'''fix''', fiksi.

'''flake''', floko, neĝero.

'''flame''', flami.

'''flannel''', flanelo.

'''flat''', plata, ebena; apartamento.

'''flatter''', flati.

'''flavour''', gusto.

'''flax''', lino.

'''flea''', pulo,

'''flesh''', (''meat'') viando; karno.

'''flint''', siliko.

'''flit''', flirti.

'''float''', naĝi; surnaĝi.

flock, aro, pastataro, Safaro.

flog, skur@i.

flood, superakvegi.

floor, planko, etago.

flour, faruno.

flow, flui.

flower, flor’o, -i. bed, bedo,

fluid, fluajo.

flutter, flugeti, flirti.

fiy, niuSo; flugi.

fog, nebulo,

fold, fald‘i, -o.

follow, sekvi.

Yondle, dorloti, karesi.

food, nutrajo.

fool, malsagulo, 5

foot, piedo; futo, man, lakeo.
-path, trotuaro, piedvojeto,

forage, turago.

forehead, frunto.

foreign, ali’,
fremda,

forest, arbarego.

forge, forgi.

forget, forgesi.

forgive, pardoni,

formidable, timeginda.

formulate, formuli.

fortress, tortikajo.

fortunate, felica.

foundation, fundamento.

foundry, fandejo.

fountain, fontano.

fowl, kortbirdo.

fox, vulpo.

frame, kadro.

freckle, lentugo.

free, liber‘a, -igi; senpaga.

freeze, frostigi, glaci‘igi, -igi.

frequent, ofta ; vizitadi.

fringe, frango.

fritter, tritajo.

ekster’-landa,

[zoto.
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'''ferret''', ĉasputoro.

'''ferry-boat''', pramo.

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fluid, fluajo.

flutter, flugeti, flirti.

fiy, niuSo; flugi.

fog, nebulo,

fold, fald‘i, -o.

follow, sekvi.

Yondle, dorloti, karesi.

food, nutrajo.

fool, malsagulo, 5

foot, piedo; futo, man, lakeo.
-path, trotuaro, piedvojeto,

forage, turago.

forehead, frunto.

foreign, ali’,
fremda,

forest, arbarego.

forge, forgi.

forget, forgesi.

forgive, pardoni,

formidable, timeginda.

formulate, formuli.

fortress, tortikajo.

fortunate, felica.

foundation, fundamento.

foundry, fandejo.

fountain, fontano.

fowl, kortbirdo.

fox, vulpo.

frame, kadro.

freckle, lentugo.

free, liber‘a, -igi; senpaga.

freeze, frostigi, glaci‘igi, -igi.

frequent, ofta ; vizitadi.

fringe, frango.

fritter, tritajo.

ekster’-landa,

[zoto.
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'''flax''', lino.

'''flea''', pulo,

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'''flutter''', flugeti, flirti.

'''fly''', muŝo; flugi.

'''fog''', nebulo,

'''fold''', fald‘i, -o.

'''follow''', sekvi.

'''fondle''', dorloti, karesi.

'''food''', nutraĵo.

'''fool''', malsaĝulo.

'''foot''', piedo; futo, '''-man''', lakeo. '''-path''', trotuaro, piedvojeto,

forage, turago.

forehead, frunto.

foreign, ali’,
fremda,

forest, arbarego.

forge, forgi.

forget, forgesi.

forgive, pardoni,

formidable, timeginda.

formulate, formuli.

fortress, tortikajo.

fortunate, felica.

foundation, fundamento.

foundry, fandejo.

fountain, fontano.

fowl, kortbirdo.

fox, vulpo.

frame, kadro.

freckle, lentugo.

free, liber‘a, -igi; senpaga.

freeze, frostigi, glaci‘igi, -igi.

frequent, ofta ; vizitadi.

fringe, frango.

fritter, tritajo.

ekster’-landa,

[zoto.
-me-not, mio-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15132354</id>
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      <text bytes="2344" sha1="9ftabvw1ao545jn50ng9fgx5n1n9kjf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|143}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''feed''', nutri, manĝigi, paŝti.

'''feel''', palpi, senti.

'''felt''', felto.

'''female''', ino, virinseksa.

'''fence''', skermi; palisaro.

'''ferment''', fermenti.

'''fern''', filiko.

'''ferret''', ĉasputoro.

'''ferry-boat''', pramo.

'''fester''', ulceriĝi, pusi.

'''festival''', festo,

'''feudal''', feǔdala.

'''fever''', febro.

'''fibre''', fibro.

'''fife''', fifro.

'''fig''', figo.

'''fight''', batal‘i, -o.

'''figure''', cifero; figuro.

'''figurative''', figura.

'''file''', fajli, -ilo.

'''film''', filmo, tavoleto.

'''filter''', filtr’i, -ilo.

'''fin''', naĝilo.

'''fine''', delikata; monpuno,

'''fir''', abio,

'''fire''', brulo, fajro; (''gun'') pafi.

'''fireplace''', kameno, fajrejo.

'''fireworks''', artfajraĵo:

'''firm''', firma, fortika; firmo.

'''fish''', fiŝ’o, -i, -kapti.

'''fist''', pugno.

'''fit''', atako. '''—for''', taǔga; konvena, deca.

'''fix''', fiksi.

'''flake''', floko, neĝero.

'''flame''', flami.

'''flannel''', flanelo.

'''flat''', plata, ebena; apartamento.

'''flatter''', flati.

'''flavour''', gusto.

'''flax''', lino.

'''flea''', pulo,

'''flesh''', (''meat'') viando; karno.

'''flint''', siliko.

'''flit''', flirti.

'''float''', naĝi; surnaĝi.

'''flock''', aro, paŝtataro, ŝafaro.

'''flog''', skurĝi.

'''flood''', superakvegi.

'''floor''', planko, etaĝo.

'''flour''', faruno.

'''flow''', flui.

'''flower''', flor’o, -i. bed, bedo,

'''fluid''', fluaĵo.

'''flutter''', flugeti, flirti.

'''fly''', muŝo; flugi.

'''fog''', nebulo,

'''fold''', fald‘i, -o.

'''follow''', sekvi.

'''fondle''', dorloti, karesi.

'''food''', nutraĵo.

'''fool''', malsaĝulo.

'''foot''', piedo; futo, '''-man''', lakeo. '''-path''', trotuaro, piedvojeto,

'''forage''', furaĝo.

'''forehead''', frunto.

'''foreign''', ali’, ekster’-landa, fremda,

'''forest''', arbarego.

'''forge''', forĝi.

'''forget''', forgesi. '''-me-not''', miozoto.

'''forgive''', pardoni,

'''formidable''', timeginda.

'''formulate''', formuli.

fortress, tortikajo.

fortunate, felica.

foundation, fundamento.

foundry, fandejo.

fountain, fontano.

fowl, kortbirdo.

fox, vulpo.

frame, kadro.

freckle, lentugo.

free, liber‘a, -igi; senpaga.

freeze, frostigi, glaci‘igi, -igi.

frequent, ofta ; vizitadi.

fringe, frango.

fritter, tritajo.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132372</id>
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        <id>3088622</id>
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      <text bytes="2442" sha1="3w2e3e3kk5cvm3mgrae44rvxkmm6338" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|143}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''feed''', nutri, manĝigi, paŝti.

'''feel''', palpi, senti.

'''felt''', felto.

'''female''', ino, virinseksa.

'''fence''', skermi; palisaro.

'''ferment''', fermenti.

'''fern''', filiko.

'''ferret''', ĉasputoro.

'''ferry-boat''', pramo.

'''fester''', ulceriĝi, pusi.

'''festival''', festo,

'''feudal''', feǔdala.

'''fever''', febro.

'''fibre''', fibro.

'''fife''', fifro.

'''fig''', figo.

'''fight''', batal‘i, -o.

'''figure''', cifero; figuro.

'''figurative''', figura.

'''file''', fajli, -ilo.

'''film''', filmo, tavoleto.

'''filter''', filtr’i, -ilo.

'''fin''', naĝilo.

'''fine''', delikata; monpuno,

'''fir''', abio,

'''fire''', brulo, fajro; (''gun'') pafi.

'''fireplace''', kameno, fajrejo.

'''fireworks''', artfajraĵo:

'''firm''', firma, fortika; firmo.

'''fish''', fiŝ’o, -i, -kapti.

'''fist''', pugno.

'''fit''', atako. '''—for''', taǔga; konvena, deca.

'''fix''', fiksi.

'''flake''', floko, neĝero.

'''flame''', flami.

'''flannel''', flanelo.

'''flat''', plata, ebena; apartamento.

'''flatter''', flati.

'''flavour''', gusto.

'''flax''', lino.

'''flea''', pulo,

'''flesh''', (''meat'') viando; karno.

'''flint''', siliko.

'''flit''', flirti.

'''float''', naĝi; surnaĝi.

'''flock''', aro, paŝtataro, ŝafaro.

'''flog''', skurĝi.

'''flood''', superakvegi.

'''floor''', planko, etaĝo.

'''flour''', faruno.

'''flow''', flui.

'''flower''', flor’o, -i. bed, bedo,

'''fluid''', fluaĵo.

'''flutter''', flugeti, flirti.

'''fly''', muŝo; flugi.

'''fog''', nebulo,

'''fold''', fald‘i, -o.

'''follow''', sekvi.

'''fondle''', dorloti, karesi.

'''food''', nutraĵo.

'''fool''', malsaĝulo.

'''foot''', piedo; futo, '''-man''', lakeo. '''-path''', trotuaro, piedvojeto,

'''forage''', furaĝo.

'''forehead''', frunto.

'''foreign''', ali’, ekster’-landa, fremda,

'''forest''', arbarego.

'''forge''', forĝi.

'''forget''', forgesi. '''-me-not''', miozoto.

'''forgive''', pardoni,

'''formidable''', timeginda.

'''formulate''', formuli.

'''fortress''', fortikaĵo.

'''fortunate''', feliĉa.

'''foundation''', fundamento.

'''foundry''', fandejo.

'''fountain''', fontano.

'''fowl''', kortbirdo.

'''fox''', vulpo.

'''frame''', kadro.

'''freckle''', lentugo.

'''free''', liber‘a, -igi; senpaga.

'''freeze''', frostiĝi, glaci‘igi, -iĝi.

'''frequent''', ofta ; vizitadi.

'''fringe''', franĝo.

'''fritter''', fritaĵo.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/20</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847218</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131424</id>
      <parentid>15131372</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:25:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1531" sha1="ek9tjrdni9ar6dht72ryvzy6gyqi2sw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;{{TOC begin}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Poor Bit of a Wench!—}}|169}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|What Ails Thee?—}}|170}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|It's No Good!}}|171}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Ships in Bottles}}|171}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Know Thyself, and That Thou Art Mortal}}|174}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|What is a Man Without an Income'—}}|176}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Canvassing for the Election}}|178}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Altercation}}|179}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Finding Your Level}}|180}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Climbing Up}}|183}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Conundrums}}|185}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|A Rise in the World—}}|186}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Up He goes!—}}|187}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Saddest Day}}|189}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Prestige}}|191}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Have Done With It—}}|193}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Henriette}}|194}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Vitality}}|196}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Willy Wet-Leg}}|198}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Maybe—}}|198}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Stand Up!—}}|199}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Trust}}|200}}
{{TOC end}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|xiv}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ek9tjrdni9ar6dht72ryvzy6gyqi2sw</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/19</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847222</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131411</id>
      <parentid>15131379</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:16:54Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
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      <text bytes="2794" sha1="px6ope8k4ygdp8hclcs538kfxqxjzxr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;{{TOC begin}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Poor Young Things—}}|137}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|A Played-Out Game—}}|138}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Triumph}}|139}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Combative Spirit}}|139}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Wages}}|142}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Young Fathers}}|143}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|A Tale Told by an Idiot}}|144}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Being Alive}}|144}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Self-Protection}}|145}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|A Man}}|147}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Lizard}}|148}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Relativity}}|148}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Space}}|149}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Sun-Men}}|149}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Sun-Women}}|150}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Democracy}}|151}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Aristocracy of the Sun}}|152}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Conscience}}|152}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Middle Classes}}|153}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Immorality}}|154}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Censors}}|154}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Man's Image}}|155}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Immoral Man}}|155}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Cowards}}|156}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Think—!}}|156}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Peacock}}|157}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Paltry-Looking People—}}|157}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Tarts}}|158}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Latter-Day Sinners}}|158}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Fate and the Younger Generation}}|159}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|As for me, I'm a Patriot}}|161}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Rose of England}}|161}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|England in 1929}}|163}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Liberty's Old Old Story}}|163}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|New Brooms}}|164}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Police Spies}}|164}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Now It's Happened}}|164}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Energetic Women}}|166}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Film Passion}}|167}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Female Coercion}}|167}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Volcanic Venus}}|168}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Wonderful Spiritual Women}}|169}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{TOC end}}
{{c|xiii}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695).djvu/176</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847225</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131385</id>
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        <id>2855804</id>
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      <text bytes="663" sha1="d75ifib1253vg85mrhd5j1yg1e4r1ng" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|164|{{nil}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{rule|30em|margin_tb=1em}}
{{rule|30em|margin_tb=1em}}
{{c|{{larger|IN}}

{{xx-larger|Praise of ''MYRA.''}}

{{larger|''By the same Author.''}}}}
{{dhr}}
{{ppoem|start=open|end=follow|&lt;&gt;I.
{{di|T}}{{uc|une}} the Harmonious Lyre: Begin my Muse,
What Nymph? What Queen? What Goddess shall we chuse?
Whose Praises shall we Sing? What Charmer's Name
{{em|2}}Transmit Immortal down to Fame?{{em|13}}&lt;!-- To prevent wrapping of 2nd line --&gt;
Strike, strike thy Strings; let Echo take the Sound,
And bear it far, to all the Mountains round:
''Pyndus'' again shall hear, again rejoyce,
And ''Hæmus'' too, as when th' Enchanting Voice}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|Of}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/17</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847226</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131386</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:01:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131386</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="2683" sha1="kj7v2x4xqecwdhsxv7a28ci4lv7nb0f" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;{{TOC begin}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Climb Down, O Lordly mind—}}|73}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Ego-Bound}}|75}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Jealousy}}|75}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Fidelity}}|76}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Know Deeply, Know Thyself More Deeply—}}|78}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|All I Ask—}}|80}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Universe Flows—}}|81}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Underneath—}}|82}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Primal Passions—}}|83}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Escape}}|86}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Root of our Evil—}}|86}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Ignoble Procession—}}|88}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|No Joy in Life—}}|88}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Wild Things in Captivity—}}|89}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Mournful Young Man—}}|90}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Money-Madness—}}|91}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Kill Money—}}|93}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Men Are Not Bad—}}|93}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Nottingham's New University—}}|94}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|I Am in a Novel—}}|95}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|No! Mr Lawrence!}}|96}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Red-Herring}}|97}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Our Moral Age—}}|98}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|When I Read Shakespeare—}}|98}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Salt of the Earth—}}|99}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Fresh Water}}|100}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Peace and War—}}|100}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Many Mansions—}}|101}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Glory}}|102}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Woe}}|102}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Attila}}|103}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|What Would You Fight For?}}|103}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Choice}}|104}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Riches}}|105}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Poverty}}|105}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Noble}}|106}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Wealth}}|106}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Tolerance}}|107}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Compari}}|107}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Sick}}|108}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{TOC end}}
{{c|xi}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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        <id>731176</id>
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      <text bytes="1079" sha1="j3f5h0qtf7hmsv7xhh058xfkwdhw3de" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|||War and Hell}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=follow|
I refuse to accept your ready-made enemies, and, if I did accept them, I should feel bound to love them, and, loving them, would you have me caress them with bombshells and bayonets?
When I want enemies, I reserve the right to manufacture them for myself.
If I am ever scoundrel enough to wish to kill, I will do my own killing on my own account and not hide myself behind your license.
Before God your commissions and warrants and enlistment rolls, relieving men of conscience and independence and manhood, are not worth the paper they are written on.
Away with all your superstitions of a statecraft worse than priestcraft!
Hypnotize fools and cowards if you will, but for my part, I choose to be a man.
{{dhri}}
&lt;&gt;{{smaller|VII}}
{{di|I}} AM no patriot.
I do not wish my countrymen to overrun the world. I love the date-palm equally with the pine-tree, and each in its place.
I am as true a friend to the banana and orange as to the pear and apple.
I thank the genial breath of climate for making men different.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|15}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Konstantin Mikhailovich Oberuchev - Soviets vs. Democracy (1919).djvu/39</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847228</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131389</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:03:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MarkLSteadman</username>
        <id>559943</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="2432" sha1="7iahx1payvgwegsb4t7zcpmysnitv0k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;MarkLSteadman&quot; /&gt;{{rule}}
{{rh||''The Soviets, Their Rule and Constitution''|33}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;need not be mentioned at all. If, however, our woebegone &quot;socialists&quot; cannot manage the job they claim to have undertaken, and still find it possible to allow the hiring of labor for profit, private commerce and trading brokerage, it stands to reason that the activity of these categories is, at this transitory period, socially useful and that even the Soviet rule cannot get along without it. And if such is the case—we take it that the Soviet rulers would not have tolerated it if it were otherwise—it is apparent that it is absolutely unjust to deprive them of electoral rights, of the right to participate in the moulding of the common life. The only explanation that can be offered for this exclusion is the extreme cowardice of the Soviet rule, which is afraid lest persons opposed to their theories may find their way into influential positions, and, also, that unrelenting vengefulness and hatred which run like a red thread through all the experimental &quot;creativeness&quot; of the Bolsheviki.

Let us pass over to the construction of the Soviet rule, as per the &quot;constitution.&quot;

At the head of all the representative institutions of the Soviet rule is placed the All-Russian Congress of Soviets of Workmen's, Peasants', Cossacks' and Red Army Deputies. This Congress is composed of &quot;representatives of city Soviets on the basis of one deputy for every 25,000 voters, and representatives of gubernia (Province) Soviets on the basis of one deputy for every 125,000 inhabitants&quot; (Article 25). It seems rather strange, unless it is a misprint, that deputies from cities are apportioned on the basis of the voters of a given section, and the gubernia deputies, i. e., in fact the villages, are allotted on the basis of the total number of inhabitants. It is possible, therefore, to state the difference of representation between the city and the village in the following manner: Taking the ordinary family to be of five persons, we find that one deputy is allotted for every 25.000 families. Figuring, again, that the average family has three members of voting age—father, mother and one child (the voting age being 18 years or less)—we find that the representation of the peasant population will be one deputy to each 75,000 voters, i. e., the village representation in the All-Russian Congress will be one-third that of the city. This proportion will&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/20</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847229</id>
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      <id>15131390</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:03:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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I am glad to know that, if my people succeed in spreading over the face of the earth, they will gradually differ from each other as they attune themselves to every degree of latitude and longitude.
Humanity is no air to be strummed on one note or upon one instrument.
It is a symphony where every note and instrument has its part, and would be sadly missed.
I do not take the side of the cornet against the violin, for the cornet needs the violin.
I am no patriot.
I love my country too well to be a patriot.
{{dhri}}
&lt;&gt;{{smaller|VIII}}
{{di|I}} SAW them take the blockhouse on the hill by storm.
First advancing slowly in the woods in groups, dodging from tree to tree and firing rapidly, the machine gun grinding out death with its sharp metallic rattle, while the smell of powder fills the air.
Now they rush into the open and up the steep slope.
Some of them fall. One I see plunge backward down the hill with his arms in the air; another stumbles forward up-hill on his face and elbows.
For an instant they waver; then up again they go.
Men spring up from the ground at the top of the hill and run away.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|16}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695).djvu/177</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847230</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131391</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:03:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="768" sha1="839dfadbqc6pxbszcusyb8448pgtqne" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|165|''On'' MYRA{{'}}''s Singing''.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=stanza|{{em|2}}Of Tuneful ''Orpheus'' Charm'd the Grove,
Taught Oaks to Dance, and made the Cedars move.

&lt;&gt;II.
Nor ''Venus'', nor ''Diana'' will we Name,
{{em}}''Myra'' is ''Venus'' and ''Diana'' too,
{{em}}All that was feign'd of them, apply'd to her, is true:
Then Sing, my Muse; let ''Myra'' be our Theam.
As when the Shepherds do their Garland make,
{{em}}They search, with pains, the Fragrant Mea­dows round,
Plucking but here and there, and only take
{{em}}The Choicest Flow'rs, with which some Nymph is Crown'd.
In Framing Myra so Divinely Fair,
{{em|3}}Nature has taken the same care;
All that is Lovely, Noble, Good, we see,
All-beauteous ''Myra'', all bound up in Thee.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|III.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/21</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847231</id>
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      <id>15131393</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:05:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
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The assailants disappear for a moment in invisible trenches, and then I see them, too, running beyond.
There is a great hurrah; the flag comes down on the blockhouse and another goes up.
They dance about like children, shouting, throwing up their caps, and waving their swords and muskets in a delirium of joy.
I do not blame them. They have never felt such a thrill before. Shall we deprive them of the most ecstatic moment of their lives?
Ecstasy with murder is better perhaps than the dull level of existence without.
It would do them no good to go without murder.
There is no good in going without things.
The good consists in having something better than the things you go without.
Oh, if they only knew that there is a higher ecstacy, a deeper thrill, an inexhaustible courage and contempt of death!
Then how quickly they would let pistol and bayonet drop harmless from their hands!
{{dhri}}
&lt;&gt;{{smaller|IX}}
{{di|H}}AIL to the hero!
Decked out in blue, red, and gilt, as in warpaint{{mdash}}
Rejoicing like a savage in a long head-feather and gold shoulder fringes{{mdash}}
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|17}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695).djvu/178</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847232</id>
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      <text bytes="691" sha1="sadh8ut3tur0w8pkqpqwxd2u28g7iw3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|166|''In Praise of'' MYRA.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|end=close|&lt;&gt;III.
{{em}}Where ''Myra'' is, there is the Queen of Love,
Th' Arcadian Pastures, and the ''Cyprian'' Grove.
When ''Myra'' Walks, so Charming is her Meen,
In every Movement, every Grace is seen.
When ''Myra'' speaks, so just's the sense and strong,
So Sweet the Voice, 'tis like the Muse's Song.
Place me on Mountains of Eternal Snow,
Where all is Ice, all Winter Winds that blow;
Or cast me underneath the Burning Line,
{{em|2}}Where everlasting Sun do's shine,
Where all is scorcht{{longdash}}Whatever you decree,
{{em|2}}Ye Gods, whereever I shall be,
''Myra'' shall still be Lov'd, and still Ador'd by Me.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131396</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:06:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
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      <text bytes="724" sha1="qkvlsjxuid3kwp9cpjleiz37u6wj621" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|166|''In Praise of'' MYRA.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|end=close|&lt;&gt;III.
{{em}}Where ''Myra'' is, there is the Queen of Love,
Th' Arcadian Pastures, and the ''Cyprian'' Grove.
When ''Myra'' Walks, so Charming is her Meen,
In every Movement, every Grace is seen.
When ''Myra'' speaks, so just's the sense and strong,
So Sweet the Voice, 'tis like the Muse's Song.
Place me on Mountains of Eternal Snow,
Where all is Ice, all Winter Winds that blow;
Or cast me underneath the Burning Line,
{{em|2}}Where everlasting Sun do's shine,
Where all is scorcht{{longdash}}Whatever you decree,
{{em|2}}Ye Gods, whereever I shall be,
''Myra'' shall still be Lov'd, and still Ador'd by Me.}}
{{rule|30em|margin_tb=2em}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|SONG.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/22</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847233</id>
    <revision>
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        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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Proud to commit with these adornments all the crimes for which he would be disgraced and punished as a felon without them{{mdash}}
Modestly bearing on his breast a star and ribbon which say, &quot;I am a hero,&quot; as plainly as the beggar's placard says &quot;I am blind&quot;{{mdash}}
Followed by a brass band and bass drum, which screw up his courage at a pinch like the war dance and tom-tom of the Central African and red-skin{{mdash}}
Vain of his manliness in the field while indulging in effeminate quarreling over the honors, at the rate of a month's quarreling to a half-hour's fighting{{mdash}}
Admitting that he obeys orders without thinking, and thus proclaiming his complete abdication of conscience and intellect{{mdash}}
Rushing home from the fray to advertise himself in the magazines at a hundred dollars a page{{mdash}}
Hail to the hero!
{{dhri}}
O shade of [[Author:Cervantes|Cervantes]]!
Come back and draw for us another Don Quixote. Prick this bubble of militarism as you pricked that other bubble of knight-errantry. The world yearns for your reappearing.
Come and depict the hero!
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|18}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
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Proud to commit with these adornments all the crimes for which he would be disgraced and punished as a felon without them{{mdash}}
Modestly bearing on his breast a star and ribbon which say, &quot;I am a hero,&quot; as plainly as the beggar's placard says &quot;I am blind&quot;{{mdash}}
Followed by a brass band and bass drum, which screw up his courage at a pinch like the war dance and tom-tom of the Central African and red-skin{{mdash}}
Vain of his manliness in the field while indulging in effeminate quarreling over the honors, at the rate of a month's quarreling to a half-hour's fighting{{mdash}}
Admitting that he obeys orders without thinking, and thus proclaiming his complete abdication of conscience and intellect{{mdash}}
Rushing home from the fray to advertise himself in the magazines at a hundred dollars a page{{mdash}}
Hail to the hero!
{{dhri}}
O shade of [[Author:Cervantes|Cervantes]]!
Come back and draw for us another Don Quixote. Prick this bubble of militarism as you pricked that other bubble of knight-errantry. The world yearns for your reappearing.
Come and depict the hero!
{{dhri}}
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|18}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/18</title>
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{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Cerebral Emotions}}|109}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Wellsian Futures}}|109}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|To Women, As Far As I'm Concerned}}|110}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Blank}}|110}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Elderly Discontented Women}}|111}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Old People}}|112}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Grudge of the Old—}}|113}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Beautiful Old Age—}}|114}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Courage}}|115}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Desire is Dead}}|116}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|When the Ripe Fruit Falls—}}|116}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Elemental}}|117}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Fire}}|118}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|I Wish I Knew a Woman—}}|118}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Talk}}|119}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Effort of Love—}}|119}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Can't be Borne—}}|120}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Man Reaches a Point—}}|120}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Grasshopper is a Burden—}}|121}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Basta!}}|121}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Tragedy1}}|122}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|After all the Tragedies are over—}}|123}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Nullus}}|124}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Dies Iræ}}|125}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Dies Illa}}|126}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Stop It—}}|127}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Death of our Era}}|127}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The New Word}}|129}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Sun in Me}}|130}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Be Still!}}|130}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|At Last—}}|131}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Nemesis}}|132}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Optimist}}|133}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Third Thing}}|133}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|The Sane Universe}}|133}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Fear of Society is the Root of All Evil}}|134}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|God}}|134}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Sane and Insane}}|135}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|A Sane Revolution}}|135}}
{{TOC row 2-1|{{subpage|Pansies (Lawrence)|Always this Paying—}}|137}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{TOC end}}
{{c|xii}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/On Myra's Singing</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{other versions|On Myra's Singing}} {{header  | title      = [[../|The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc.]]  | author     = Various  | translator =   | section    = On Myra's Singing  | previous   = [[../To Mr. Waller/]]  | next       = [[../In praise of Myra/]]  | notes      =   | editor     = Francis Saunders  | contributor = George Granville }} &lt;pages index=&quot;The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695).djv...&quot;</comment>
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{{header
 | title      = [[../|The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc.]]
 | author     = Various
 | translator = 
 | section    = On Myra's Singing
 | previous   = [[../To Mr. Waller/]]
 | next       = [[../In praise of Myra/]]
 | notes      = 
 | editor     = Francis Saunders
 | contributor = George Granville
}}
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&lt;&gt;{{smaller|X}}
{{di|B}}UT, you say, there have been good wars. Never, never, never!
As I look back at our &quot;good&quot; war{{mdash}}at the indelible bloody splash upon our history{{mdash}}the four years' revel of hatred the crowded shambles of foiled Secession{{mdash}}
I see that it was all a pitiable error.
That which we fought for, the Union of haters by force, was a wrong, misleading cause the worship of bigness, the measure of greatness by latitude and longitude.
A single town true enough to abhor slaughter as well as slavery would have been better worth dying for than all that tempestuous domain.
From the seed then sown grew up imperialism and militarism and capitalism and a whole forest of stout, deep-rooted ills in whose shadow we lead an unhealthy, stunted life to-day.
The incidental good{{mdash}}the freedom of the slaves, illusive, unsubstantial freedom at best, freedom by law but not from the heart{{mdash}}does it really quite balance the scales?
{{dhri}}
&lt;&gt;{{smaller|XI}}
{{di|N}}AY, violence can only degrade a noble cause.
Behold the French Revolution.
Wave of brotherly love, sweeping over feudal France
(When noblemen embraced coal-heavers and threw away their privilege and rank),
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|19}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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* &quot;[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/On Myra's Singing|On Myra's Singing]]&quot; in ''[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)|The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc.]]'' (1695), edited by [[Author:Francis Saunders|Francis Saunders]]
* &quot;[[Poems upon Several Occasions/28|On Myra's Singing]]&quot; in ''[[Poems upon Several Occasions]]'' (1726), by [[Author:George Granville|George Granville]]</text>
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* &quot;[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/On Myra's Singing|On Myra's Singing]]&quot; in ''[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)|The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc.]]'' (1695), edited by [[Author:Francis Saunders|Francis Saunders]]
* &quot;[[Poems upon Several Occasions/28|Myra Singing]]&quot; in ''[[Poems upon Several Occasions]]'' (1726), by [[Author:George Granville|George Granville]]</text>
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''Poems''

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D H. LAWRENCE
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''Poems''
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D H. LAWRENCE
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    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/24</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="1116" sha1="j83mzkthkudc7rfefyzkux3udwqeytk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|War and Hell||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=follow|
Breath from heaven, inspiring a nation with now life,
What changed you into a frightful tempest, all hell raining and thundering and lightening upon the defenseless earth?
Goddess of freedom and love, how were you transformed into the fiend of bloodshed and hate?
Ah! they did not know, those Titanic lovers, that violence, however employed, drives out all liberty and love in the end.
Violence curdles the love that wields it into hatred, and wherever it strikes, as from the drooping branch of a banyan tree, spring up fresh shoots of hate.
Oh, if they had only known!
And we, when another such wave passes over the land, shall we have learned?
Shall we know the truth better than they?
{{dhri}}
&lt;&gt;{{smaller|XII}}
{{di|D}}OWN with the tiger in each of us!
He has his proper place, no doubt, in the economy of nature, but it is in the depths of our own private bottomless pit.
There he growls and mutters as he chafes behind the bars.
There is only one safe course to pursue: lock him up firmly and securely, and pay no heed to his subterranean roar.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|20}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Breath from heaven, inspiring a nation with now life,
What changed you into a frightful tempest, all hell raining and thundering and lightening upon the defenseless earth?
Goddess of freedom and love, how were you transformed into the fiend of bloodshed and hate?
Ah! they did not know, those Titanic lovers, that violence, however employed, drives out all liberty and love in the end.
Violence curdles the love that wields it into hatred, and wherever it strikes, as from the drooping branch of a banyan tree, spring up fresh shoots of hate.
Oh, if they had only known!
And we, when another such wave passes over the land, shall we have learned?
Shall we know the truth better than they?
{{dhri}}
&lt;&gt;{{smaller|XII}}
{{di|D}}OWN with the tiger in each of us!
He has his proper place, no doubt, in the economy of nature, but it is in the depths of our own private bottomless pit.
There he growls and mutters as he chafes behind the bars.
There is only one safe course to pursue: lock him up firmly and securely, and pay no heed to his subterranean roar.
{{dhri}}
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|20}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847240</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:14:58Z</timestamp>
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&lt;&gt;{{smaller|XIII}}
{{di|W}}HAT do they accomplish who take the sword?
Now and then they cutoff the ear of a servant of the high priest;
Quite as often they lose their own.
While they who say, &quot;Put up thy sword into its place,&quot; tho they die, yet succeed sometimes in changing the heart of the world.
{{dhri}}
&lt;&gt;{{smaller|XIV}}
{{di|W}}HAT is true peace but conscious strength? What is war but conscious weakness seeking
What is war but conscious weakness seeking to give proof of its strength?
Peace is a god, not a goddess, a man not a woman{{mdash}}
A brawny, bearded man of might, with nothing but the kindly look in his eyes to distinguish him from the vulgar giant.
He can afford to smile at War, the headstrong boy, rushing, red-faced, blundering, blustering, with impetuous arms, hither and thither.
Peace has outgrown all that, for Peace is a man.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|21}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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&lt;&gt;{{smaller|XIII}}
{{di|W}}HAT do they accomplish who take the sword?
Now and then they cutoff the ear of a servant of the high priest;
Quite as often they lose their own.
While they who say, &quot;Put up thy sword into its place,&quot; tho they die, yet succeed sometimes in changing the heart of the world.
{{dhri}}
&lt;&gt;{{smaller|XIV}}
{{di|W}}HAT is true peace but conscious strength? What is war but conscious weakness seeking
What is war but conscious weakness seeking to give proof of its strength?
Peace is a god, not a goddess, a man not a woman{{mdash}}
A brawny, bearded man of might, with nothing but the kindly look in his eyes to distinguish him from the vulgar giant.
He can afford to smile at War, the headstrong boy, rushing, red-faced, blundering, blustering, with impetuous arms, hither and thither.
Peace has outgrown all that, for Peace is a man.
{{dhri}}
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|21}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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&lt;&gt;{{smaller|XV}}
{{di|T}}HE old, old dream of empire{{mdash}}
The dream of Alexander and Cæsar, of Tamerlane and Genghis Khan{{mdash}}
The dream of subject peoples carrying out our sovereign will through fear{{mdash}}
The dream of a universe forced to converge upon us{{mdash}}
The dream of pride and loftiness justified by strength of arms{{mdash}}
The dream of our arbitrary &quot;Yea&quot; overcoming all &quot;Nays&quot; whatsoever{{mdash}}
The dream of a cold, stern, hated machine of an empire!
{{dhri}}
But there is a more enticing dream:
The dream of wise freedom made contagious{{mdash}}
The dream of gratitude rising from broken fetters{{mdash}}
The dream of coercion laid prostrate once for all{{mdash}}
The dream of nations in love with each other without a thought of a common hatred or danger{{mdash}}
The dream of tyrants stripped of their tyrannies and oppressors despoiled of their prey{{mdash}}
The dream of a warm, throbbing, one-hearted empire of brothers!
{{dhri}}
And will such a life be insipid when war has ceased forever?
Be not afraid.
Do lovers find life insipid?
Is there no hero-stuff in lovers?
{{dhri}}
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{other versions|In praise of Myra}} {{header  | title      = [[../|The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc.]]  | author     = Various  | translator =   | section    = In praise of Myra  | previous   = [[../On Myra's Singing/]]  | next       = [[../Song (&quot;Prepar'd to Rail, Resolv'd to Part&quot;)|Song]]  | notes      =   | editor     = Francis Saunders  | contributor = George Granville }} &lt;pages index=&quot;The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags,...&quot;</comment>
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{{header
 | title      = [[../|The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc.]]
 | author     = Various
 | translator = 
 | section    = In praise of Myra
 | previous   = [[../On Myra's Singing/]]
 | next       = [[../Song (&quot;Prepar'd to Rail, Resolv'd to Part&quot;)|Song]]
 | notes      = 
 | editor     = Francis Saunders
 | contributor = George Granville
}}
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    <title>In praise of Myra</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{versions  | title      = In praise of Myra  | author     = George Granville  | portal     =   | notes      = {{c|&quot;''Tune the Harmonious Lyre: Begin my Muse''&quot;}} }}  * &quot;[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/In praise of Myra|In praise of Myra]]&quot; in ''[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)|The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc.]]'' (1695), edited by A...&quot;</comment>
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 | notes      = {{c|&quot;''Tune the Harmonious Lyre: Begin my Muse''&quot;}}
}}

* &quot;[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)/In praise of Myra|In praise of Myra]]&quot; in ''[[The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc - Sheffield et. al. (1695)|The Temple of Death, Art of Poetry, Duel of the Stags, etc.]]'' (1695), edited by [[Author:Francis Saunders|Francis Saunders]]
* &quot;[[Poems upon Several Occasions/20|In praise of Myra]]&quot; in ''[[Poems upon Several Occasions]]'' (1726), by [[Author:George Granville|George Granville]]</text>
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    <title>Swords and Plowshares/War and Hell</title>
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      <comment>transclude poem</comment>
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 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = War and Hell
 | previous    = [[../Christianity and War/]]
 | next        = [[../The Conqueror/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf&quot; from=15 to=28 tosection=&quot;War and Hell&quot; /&gt;</text>
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    <title>Portal:History of India</title>
    <ns>100</ns>
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      <comment>create</comment>
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 | title     = 
 | class     = 
 | subclass1 = 
 | reviewed  = 
 | shortcut  = 
 | notes     = 
}}

==Authors==
*[[Author:Ernest Binfield Havell]]
*[[Author:Robert Sewell]]
*[[Author:Haridas Mukherjee]]
*[[Author:Kanhaiyalal Maneklal Munshi]]
*[[Author:Dhurjati Prasad Mukerji]]
*[[Author:James Talboys Wheeler]]
*[[Author:Tara Chand]]
*[[Author:Demetrius Charles Boulger]]
*[[Author:Darashaw Nosherwan Wadia]]
*[[Author:K. A. Nilakanta Sastri]]
*[[Author:Chandra Chakraberty]]
*[[Author:Firoze Cowasji Davar]]
*[[Author:Ishtiaq Hussain Qureshi]]
*[[Author:Rafique Ali Jairazbhoy]]
*[[Author:Nirmal Kumar Bose]]
*[[Author:Ramesh Chandra Majumdar]]
*[[Author:Rudrapatna Shamasastry]]
*[[Author:Vincent Arthur Smith]]
*[[Author:William Taylor]]
*[[Author:Jadunath Sarkar]]
*[[Author:James H. Gense]]
*[[Author:Sachchidananda Bhattacharya]]
*[[Author:Geoffrey Theodore Garratt]]
*[[Author:Arthur Llewellyn Basham]]
*[[Author:Damodar Prasad Singhal]]
*[[Author:William Wilson Hunter]]
*[[Author:Henry Heras]]
*[[Author:Henry George Keene]]
*[[Author:John Clark Marshman]]
*[[Author:Augustus Frederic Rudolf Hoernlé]]
*[[Author:Herbert Alick Stark]]
*[[Author:Abbe Raynal]]
*[[Author:K. M. Panikkar]]
*[[Author:Lionel James Trotter]]
*[[Author:Henry Beveridge]]
*[[Author:Robert Grenville Wallace]]
*[[Author:Emma Hawkridge]]
*[[Author:David Oliver Allen]]
*[[Author:Radhakamal Mukerjee]]
*[[Author:Damodar Dharmananda Kosambi]]
*[[Author:Mariadas Ruthnaswamy]]
*[[Author:S. A. Q. Husaini]]
*[[Author:Dittakavi Subrahmanya Sarma]]
*[[Author:Philip Meadows Taylor]]
*[[Author:Mountstuart Elphinstone]]
*[[Author:Radha Kumud Mukherjee]]
*[[Author:Anant Sadashiv Altekar]]
*[[Author:Abdullah Yusuf Ali]]
*[[Author:B. N. Luniya]]
*[[Author:Jean Filliozat]]
*[[Author:Niharranjan Ray]]
*[[Author:Thomas Maurice]]
*[[Author:William Simpson]]
*[[Author:Francis William Blagdon]]
*[[Author:Sakkottai Krishnaswamy Aiyangar]]
*[[Author:Praphulla Chandra Basu]]
*[[Author:Narendranath Law]]
*[[Author:Bimala Churn Law]]
*[[Author:Jeannine Auboyer]]
*[[Author:B. A. Saletore]]
*[[Author:Atindra Nath Bose]]
*[[Author:Bankabehari Chakravorti]]
*[[Author:Romesh Chunder Dutt]]
*[[Author:Rajendralal Mitra]]
*[[Author:Upendra Nath Ghoshal]]
*[[Author:Purushottam Chandra Jain]]
*[[Author:Radhagovinda Basak]]
*[[Author:Rakhal Das Banerji]]
*[[Author:Padmini Sathianadhan Sengupta]]
*[[Author:John Watson McCrindle]]
*[[Author:Edward Pococke]]
*[[Author:Friedrich Max Müller]]
*[[Author:Devadatta Ramakrishna Bhandarkar]]
*[[Author:Gustav Solomon Oppert]]
*[[Author:Gauranga Nath Banerjee]]
*[[Author:Bimal Kanti Majumdar]]
*[[Author:James Merry MacPhail]]
*[[Author:Ramachandra Ghosha]]
*[[Author:Thomas William Rhys Davids]]
*[[Author:Vinayak Vaman Karambelkar]]
*[[Author:Benoy Kumar Sarkar]]
*[[Author:Roma Niyogi]]
*[[Author:Hugh George Rawlinson]]
*[[Author:Hem Chandra Raychaudhuri]]
*[[Author:Gerald Henry Rendall]]
*[[Author:Mahadev Moreshwar Kunte]]
*[[Author:Gabriel Jouveau-Dubreuil]]
*[[Author:K. P. Jayaswal]]
*[[Author:Chintaman Vinayak Vaidya]]
*[[Author:James Francis Hewitt]]
*[[Author:Gilbert Slater]]
*[[Author:Ghulam Yazdani]]
*[[Author:Charlotte Speir Manning]]
*[[Author:Bal Gangadhar Tilak]]
*[[Author:Frederick Eden Pargiter]]
*[[Author:Dasharatha Sharma]]
*[[Author:Frederick William Thomas]]
*[[Author:Kedar Nath Sastri]]
*[[Author:Amulya Chandra Sen]]
*[[Author:Pramatha Nath Banerjea]]
*[[Author:Lionel David Barnett]]
*[[Author:Har Narain Sinha]]
*[[Author:Krishnakumari Jethabhai Virji]]
*[[Author:V. Vriddhagirisan]]
*[[Author:Purushottam Lal Bhargava]]
*[[Author:Manmatha Nath Dutt]]
*[[Author:Thomas Callan Hodson]]
*[[Author:Sunil Chandra Ray]]
*[[Author:Marc Aurel Stein]]
*[[Author:John David Rees]]
*[[Author:Robert Orme]]
*[[Author:François Bernier]]
*[[Author:Edward Rehatsek]]
*[[Author:Antonio Monserrate]]
*[[Author:Kalika Ranjan Qanungo]]
*[[Author:Yusuf Husain]]
*[[Author:Henry Miers Elliot]]
*[[Author:John Dowson]]
*[[Author:Shahpurshah Hormasji Hodivala]]
*[[Author:Bakhshish Singh Nijjar]]
*[[Author:Edward Clive Bayley]]
*[[Author:Ghulam Hussain Khan]]
*[[Author:Mahomed Kasim Ferishta]]
*[[Author:Mirza Muhammad Haidar Dughlat]]
*[[Author:Francis Gladwin]]
*[[Author:Laurence Frederic Rushbrook Williams]]
*[[Author:Abdul Hamid Lahori]]
*[[Author:William Nassau Lees]]
*[[Author:Ashirbadi Lal Srivastava]]
*[[Author:Stephen Edwardes]]
*[[Author:William Erskine]]
*[[Author:Cherefeddin Ali]]
*[[Author:William Harrison Moreland]]
*[[Author:William Irvine]]
*[[Author:Robert Marriott Caldecott]]
*[[Author:Stanley Lane-Poole]]
*[[Author:Archibald McDonald]]
*[[Author:Jivanji Jamshedji Modi]]
*[[Author:Francisco Pelsaert]]
*[[Author:Gulbadan Begum]]
*[[Author:Banarsi Prasad Saxena]]
*[[Author:Annette Susannah Beveridge]]
*[[Author:Ishwari Prasad]]
*[[Author:Makhanlal Roychoudhury]]
*[[Author:John Somervell Hoyland]]
*[[Author:Edward Thomas]]
*[[Author:Edward Douglas MacLagan]]
*[[Author:Jagadish Narayan Sarkar]]
*[[Author:Awadh Bihari Pandey]]
*[[Author:Michael Prawdin]]
*[[Author:William Jones]]
*[[Author:Harold Lamb]]
*[[Author:Bhakat Prasad Mazumdar]]
*[[Author:K. D. Swaminathan]]
*[[Author:Alexander Dow]]
*[[Author:Mustafa Naima]]
*[[Author:William Francklin]]</text>
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Our day is over, night comes up
shadows steal out of the earth.
Shadows, shadows
wash over our knees and splash between our thighs, our day is done;
we wade, we wade, we stagger, darkness rushes be- tween our stones,
we shall drown.
Our day is over night comes up.
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&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|HARK IN THE DUSK!
Hark! in the dusk
voices, gurgling like water
wreathe strong weed round the knees, as the darkness
lifts us off our feet.

As the current
thrusts warm through the loins, so the little one
wildly floats, swirls,
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Our day is over, night comes up
shadows steal out of the earth.
Shadows, shadows
wash over our knees and splash between our thighs, our day is done;
we wade, we wade, we stagger, darkness rushes be- tween our stones,
we shall drown.
Our day is over night comes up.
}}
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&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|HARK IN THE DUSK!|
Hark! in the dusk
voices, gurgling like water
wreathe strong weed round the knees, as the darkness
lifts us off our feet.

As the current
thrusts warm through the loins, so the little one
wildly floats, swirls,
and the flood strikes the belly, and we are gone.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|3}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Code of Lipit-Ištar</title>
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      <comment>i checked renewal myself, copied from wikipedia</comment>
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      <text bytes="4394" sha1="6t2syveba46a6zbkhh562vitcff0p1g" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = Code of Lipit-Ištar
 | author     = Lipit-Ishtar
 | translator = Francis Rue Steele
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1948
 | notes      = This translated text was taken from the article ''The Code of Lipit-Ishtar''. DOI: [https://doi.org/10.2307/500438]
 | language   = sux
}}

==Text==
The text exists on several partial fragments. The following complete laws have been reconstructed:

§8 If a man gave bare ground to another man to set out as an orchard and the latter did not complete setting out that bare ground as an orchard, he shall give to the man who set out the [[orchard]] the bare ground which he neglected as part of his share.

§9 If a man entered the orchard of another man and was seized there for stealing, he shall pay ten [[shekel]]s of silver.

§10 If a man cut down a tree in the garden of another man, he shall pay one-half mina of silver.

§11 If adjacent to the house of a man the bare ground of another man has been neglected and the owner of the house has said to the owner of the bare ground, &quot;Because your ground has been neglected someone may break into my house: strengthen your house,&quot; and this agreement has been confirmed by him, the owner of the bare ground shall restore to the owner of the house any of his property that is lost.

§12 If a [[Slavery in the Ancient Near East|slave-girl or slave]] of a man has fled into the heart of the city and it has been confirmed that he (or she) dwelt in the house of (another) man for one month, he shall give slave for slave.

§13  If he has no slave, he shall pay fifteen shekels of silver.

§14 If a man's slave has compensated his slave-ship to his master and it is confirmed (that he has compensated) his master two-fold, that slave shall be freed.

§15 If a ''miqtum'' [servant] is the grant of a king, he shall not be taken away.

§16 If a ''miqtum'' went to a man of his own free will, that man shall not hold him; he (the ''miqtum'') may go where he desires.

§17 If a man without authorization bound another man to a matter of which he (the latter) had no knowledge, that man is not affirmed (i.e., legally obligated); he (the first man) shall bear the penalty in regard to the matter to which he had bound him.

§18 If the master of an estate or the mistress of an estate has defaulted on the tax of an estate and a stranger has borne it, for three years he (the owner) may not be [[evicted]]. Afterwards, the man who bore the tax of the estate shall possess that estate and the former owner of the estate shall not raise any claim.

§22 If the father is living, his daughter whether she be a high priestess, a priestess, or a [[hierodule]] shall dwell in his house like an heir.

§24 If the second wife whom he had married bore him children, the [[dowry]] which she brought from her father's house belongs to her children but the children of his first wife and the children of his second wife shall divide equally the property of their father.

§25 If a man married his wife and she bore him children and those children are living, and a slave also bore children for her master but the father granted freedom to the slave and her children, the children of the slave shall not divide the estate with the children of their former master.

§27 If a man's wife has not borne him children but a [[harlot]] from the public square has borne him children, he shall provide grain, oil and clothing for that harlot. The children which the harlot has borne him shall be his heirs, and as long as his wife lives the harlot shall not live in the house with the wife.

§29 If a son-in-law has entered the house of his (prospective) father-in-law and afterwards they made him go out (of the house) and gave his wife to his companion, they shall present to him the betrothal gifts which he brought and that wife may not marry his companion.

§34 If a man rented an ox and injured the flesh at the nose ring, he shall pay one-third of its price.

§35 If a man rented an ox and damaged its eye, he shall pay one-half its price.

§36 If a man rented an ox and broke its horn, he shall pay one-fourth its price.

§37 If a man rented an ox and damaged its tail, he shall pay one-fourth its price.

==Copyright==
===Original===
{{PD-old}}
===Translation===
{{PD-US-no-renewal}}&lt;!-- https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/serial?id=ajarch --&gt;</text>
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 | title      = Code of Lipit-Ištar
 | author     = Lipit-Ishtar
 | translator = Francis Rue Steele
 | section    = 
 | previous   = 
 | next       = 
 | year       = 1948
 | notes      = This translated text was taken from the article ''The Code of Lipit-Ishtar''. DOI: [https://doi.org/10.2307/500438]
 | language   = sux
}}

==Text==
The text exists on several partial fragments. The following complete laws have been reconstructed:

§8 If a man gave bare ground to another man to set out as an orchard and the latter did not complete setting out that bare ground as an orchard, he shall give to the man who set out the [[orchard]] the bare ground which he neglected as part of his share.

§9 If a man entered the orchard of another man and was seized there for stealing, he shall pay ten [[shekel]]s of silver.

§10 If a man cut down a tree in the garden of another man, he shall pay one-half mina of silver.

§11 If adjacent to the house of a man the bare ground of another man has been neglected and the owner of the house has said to the owner of the bare ground, &quot;Because your ground has been neglected someone may break into my house: strengthen your house,&quot; and this agreement has been confirmed by him, the owner of the bare ground shall restore to the owner of the house any of his property that is lost.

§12 If a [[Slavery in the Ancient Near East|slave-girl or slave]] of a man has fled into the heart of the city and it has been confirmed that he (or she) dwelt in the house of (another) man for one month, he shall give slave for slave.

§13  If he has no slave, he shall pay fifteen shekels of silver.

§14 If a man's slave has compensated his slave-ship to his master and it is confirmed (that he has compensated) his master two-fold, that slave shall be freed.

§15 If a ''miqtum'' [servant] is the grant of a king, he shall not be taken away.

§16 If a ''miqtum'' went to a man of his own free will, that man shall not hold him; he (the ''miqtum'') may go where he desires.

§17 If a man without authorization bound another man to a matter of which he (the latter) had no knowledge, that man is not affirmed (i.e., legally obligated); he (the first man) shall bear the penalty in regard to the matter to which he had bound him.

§18 If the master of an estate or the mistress of an estate has defaulted on the tax of an estate and a stranger has borne it, for three years he (the owner) may not be [[evicted]]. Afterwards, the man who bore the tax of the estate shall possess that estate and the former owner of the estate shall not raise any claim.

§22 If the father is living, his daughter whether she be a high priestess, a priestess, or a [[hierodule]] shall dwell in his house like an heir.

§24 If the second wife whom he had married bore him children, the [[dowry]] which she brought from her father's house belongs to her children but the children of his first wife and the children of his second wife shall divide equally the property of their father.

§25 If a man married his wife and she bore him children and those children are living, and a slave also bore children for her master but the father granted freedom to the slave and her children, the children of the slave shall not divide the estate with the children of their former master.

§27 If a man's wife has not borne him children but a [[harlot]] from the public square has borne him children, he shall provide grain, oil and clothing for that harlot. The children which the harlot has borne him shall be his heirs, and as long as his wife lives the harlot shall not live in the house with the wife.

§29 If a son-in-law has entered the house of his (prospective) father-in-law and afterwards they made him go out (of the house) and gave his wife to his companion, they shall present to him the betrothal gifts which he brought and that wife may not marry his companion.

§34 If a man rented an ox and injured the flesh at the nose ring, he shall pay one-third of its price.

§35 If a man rented an ox and damaged its eye, he shall pay one-half its price.

§36 If a man rented an ox and broke its horn, he shall pay one-fourth its price.

§37 If a man rented an ox and damaged its tail, he shall pay one-fourth its price.

==Copyright==
{{PD-US-no-renewal}}&lt;!-- https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/serial?id=ajarch --&gt;</text>
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Elephants in the circus
have æons of weariness round their eyes.
Yet they sit up
and show vast bellies to the children.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|ELEPHANTS PLODDING|
Plod! Plod!
And what ages of time
the worn arches of their spines support!
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|ON THE DRUM
THE huge old female on the drum
shuffles gingerly round
and smiles; the vastness of her elephant antiquity
is amused.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|TWO PERFORMING ELEPHANTS|
He stands with his forefeet on the drum
and the other, the old one, the pallid hoary female
must creep her great bulk beneath the bridge of him.
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|4}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Elephants in the circus
have æons of weariness round their eyes.
Yet they sit up
and show vast bellies to the children.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|ELEPHANTS PLODDING|
Plod! Plod!
And what ages of time
the worn arches of their spines support!
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;c&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|ON THE DRUM
THE huge old female on the drum
shuffles gingerly round
and smiles; the vastness of her elephant antiquity
is amused.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;c&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;d&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|TWO PERFORMING ELEPHANTS|
He stands with his forefeet on the drum
and the other, the old one, the pallid hoary female
must creep her great bulk beneath the bridge of him.
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|4}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="720" sha1="t5bosond8owr5q5nswa4hevplz2rpm0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|ELEPHANTS IN THE CIRCUS|
Elephants in the circus
have æons of weariness round their eyes.
Yet they sit up
and show vast bellies to the children.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|ELEPHANTS PLODDING|
Plod! Plod!
And what ages of time
the worn arches of their spines support!
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;c&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|ON THE DRUM|
The huge old female on the drum
shuffles gingerly round
and smiles; the vastness of her elephant antiquity
is amused.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;c&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;d&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|TWO PERFORMING ELEPHANTS|
He stands with his forefeet on the drum
and the other, the old one, the pallid hoary female
must creep her great bulk beneath the bridge of him.
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|4}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t5bosond8owr5q5nswa4hevplz2rpm0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/43</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847251</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131440</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:34:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131440</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="954" sha1="bnf3285p01w6ekbsesq0aavtw6xnzuk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|||The Peace Conference}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=stanza|
And captains of the sea were there
:And captains of the land,
And with the tassels of their swords
:Played many an idle hand.

And some who had the morning's news
:Were reading there with zest
Of battles in the farthest East
:And battles in the West;
While at the door two sentries stood.
:With muskets at their side
And bayonets fixed, to show that peace
:Depends on war and pride.

The president then rang his bell,
:And up a bishop rose,
And prayed for all the kings and queens
:In most poetic prose.
His lips that every week had asked
:For victory in war,
Now prayed that in our time sweet Peace
:Might come for evermore.

Then suddenly the hall grew bright,
:The roof was rent in two,
And down from heaven an angel came
:To their astonished view:
The envoys looked aghast, the priest
:Muttered a faint &quot;Amen!&quot;
A stern voice answered, &quot;I am Peace;
:What would you have, ye men?
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|39}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bnf3285p01w6ekbsesq0aavtw6xnzuk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131472</id>
      <parentid>15131440</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:48:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>header</comment>
      <origin>15131472</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="952" sha1="e761p6vstwdlx3olzw967l3v49fhghb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|||The Peace Congress}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=stanza|
And captains of the sea were there
:And captains of the land,
And with the tassels of their swords
:Played many an idle hand.

And some who had the morning's news
:Were reading there with zest
Of battles in the farthest East
:And battles in the West;
While at the door two sentries stood.
:With muskets at their side
And bayonets fixed, to show that peace
:Depends on war and pride.

The president then rang his bell,
:And up a bishop rose,
And prayed for all the kings and queens
:In most poetic prose.
His lips that every week had asked
:For victory in war,
Now prayed that in our time sweet Peace
:Might come for evermore.

Then suddenly the hall grew bright,
:The roof was rent in two,
And down from heaven an angel came
:To their astonished view:
The envoys looked aghast, the priest
:Muttered a faint &quot;Amen!&quot;
A stern voice answered, &quot;I am Peace;
:What would you have, ye men?
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|39}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>e761p6vstwdlx3olzw967l3v49fhghb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/222</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847252</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131442</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:36:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=follow| till we both of us are more glorious and more sunny. }}&quot;</comment>
      <origin>15131442</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="86" sha1="2zre74xsf7bzf4ez8forhtbjb1ul4p6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|
till we both of us
are more glorious
and more sunny.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|202}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2zre74xsf7bzf4ez8forhtbjb1ul4p6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131445</id>
      <parentid>15131442</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:36:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131445</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="86" sha1="6epw5a74w8jst09njsouigd76k1da8u" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|
till we both of us
are more glorious
and more sunny.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|202}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6epw5a74w8jst09njsouigd76k1da8u</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/25</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847253</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131443</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:36:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131443</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="717" sha1="qnrbshcbgdy1iyu8t4yhd5necbrf5q6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=stanza|
On her knees, in utmost caution
all agog, and curling up her trunk
she edges through without upsetting him.
Triumph! the ancient, pig-tailed monster!

When her trick is to climb over him
with what shadow-like slow carefulness
she skims him, sensitive
as shadows from the ages gone and perished
in touching him, and planting her round feet.

While the wispy, modern children, half-afraid
watch silent. The looming of the hoary, far-gone ages
is too much for them.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|TWILIGHT|
Twilight
thick underdusk
and a hidden voice like water clucking
callously continuous.
While darkness submerges the stones
and splashes warm between the buttocks.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|5}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qnrbshcbgdy1iyu8t4yhd5necbrf5q6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/221</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847254</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131447</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:37:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza |Oh don't you trust me, don't burden me with your life and affairs; don't thrust me into your cares.  But I think you may trust the sun in me that glows with just as much glow as you see in me, and no more.  But if it warms your heart's quick core why then trust it, it forms one faithfulness more.  And be, oh be a sun to me, not a weary, insistent personality.  but a sun that shines and goes dark, but shines again and entwines with t...</comment>
      <origin>15131447</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="498" sha1="ll7odq7at5lyw42hhz1i0nvlet7wrv3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|Oh don't you trust me,
don't burden me
with your life and affairs; don't thrust me
into your cares.

But I think you may trust
the sun in me
that glows with just
as much glow as you see
in me, and no more.

But if it warms
your heart's quick core
why then trust it, it forms
one faithfulness more.

And be, oh be
a sun to me,
not a weary, insistent
personality.

but a sun that shines
and goes dark, but shines
again and entwines
with the sunshine in me
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|201}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ll7odq7at5lyw42hhz1i0nvlet7wrv3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/44</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847255</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131448</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:37:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131448</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="950" sha1="1yjledmdnjgsxyxxnrgaspda9oizgxn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|The Peace Conference||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|end=follow|
&quot;Why is it that you call me here
:From God's unsullied air{{mdash}}
Here, where the smell of blood corrupts
:The spirit of your prayer?
Here where you dare to name mу паmе
:Holding a blood-stained sword?&quot;
(The troubled counsellors now hid
:Their hilts beneath the board.)

And who are these who guard the place?&quot;
:(They slunk behind the door,
And two such frightened shamefaced men
:I never saw before.)
What mean these tawdry epaulets,
:And all this martial show?
The very pictures on the wall
:But tell of war and woe.

Read me that journal lying there;
:Let its reports accuse.
The president then picked it up
:And read the morning's news;
And it was pitiful to hear
:His wretched, stammering tale,
And it was pitiful to see
:His trembling lips turn pale.

He read about the Philippines
:Where prisoners are slain
By Yankee heroes while they curse
:The cruelty of Spain;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|40}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1yjledmdnjgsxyxxnrgaspda9oizgxn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131473</id>
      <parentid>15131448</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:48:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>header</comment>
      <origin>15131473</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="948" sha1="tpcg85epvda9zso88g9pv8v3m7ishzw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|The Peace Congress||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|end=follow|
&quot;Why is it that you call me here
:From God's unsullied air{{mdash}}
Here, where the smell of blood corrupts
:The spirit of your prayer?
Here where you dare to name mу паmе
:Holding a blood-stained sword?&quot;
(The troubled counsellors now hid
:Their hilts beneath the board.)

And who are these who guard the place?&quot;
:(They slunk behind the door,
And two such frightened shamefaced men
:I never saw before.)
What mean these tawdry epaulets,
:And all this martial show?
The very pictures on the wall
:But tell of war and woe.

Read me that journal lying there;
:Let its reports accuse.
The president then picked it up
:And read the morning's news;
And it was pitiful to hear
:His wretched, stammering tale,
And it was pitiful to see
:His trembling lips turn pale.

He read about the Philippines
:Where prisoners are slain
By Yankee heroes while they curse
:The cruelty of Spain;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|40}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tpcg85epvda9zso88g9pv8v3m7ishzw</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/220</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847256</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131450</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:38:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|begin=stanza|Stand up for a new arrangement for a chance of life all round, for freedom, and the fun of living bust in, and hold the ground! &lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;  &lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt; {{tpp|TRUST |On we've got to trust one another again in some essentials.  Not the narrow little bargaining trust that says: I'm for you if you'll be for me.—  But a bigger trust, a trust of the sun that does not bother about moth and rust, and we see it shining in o...</comment>
      <origin>15131450</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="494" sha1="t1c8wh8wryk3xeb5x0wpz1lf4z1yc60" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|begin=stanza|Stand up for a new arrangement
for a chance of life all round,
for freedom, and the fun of living
bust in, and hold the ground!
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|TRUST
|On we've got to trust
one another again
in some essentials.

Not the narrow little
bargaining trust
that says: I'm for you
if you'll be for me.—

But a bigger trust,
a trust of the sun
that does not bother
about moth and rust,
and we see it shining
in one another.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|200}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t1c8wh8wryk3xeb5x0wpz1lf4z1yc60</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131451</id>
      <parentid>15131450</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:38:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131451</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="496" sha1="ljdnjo5pumlm3zct4m8u3zu0clkbp51" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|begin=stanza|Stand up for a new arrangement
for a chance of life all round,
for freedom, and the fun of living
bust in, and hold the ground!}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|TRUST
|On we've got to trust
one another again
in some essentials.

Not the narrow little
bargaining trust
that says: I'm for you
if you'll be for me.—

But a bigger trust,
a trust of the sun
that does not bother
about moth and rust,
and we see it shining
in one another.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|200}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ljdnjo5pumlm3zct4m8u3zu0clkbp51</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The mayor of Casterbridge (1886 Volume 1).pdf/37</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847257</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131452</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:39:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131452</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="954" sha1="6dtbbfsbkeqyvetz8g5wnpugzeeoj1x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|25|{{asc|THE MAYOR OF CASTERBRIDGE.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|CHAPTER II.}}

{{sc|The}} morning sun was streaming through the crevices of the canvas when the man awoke. A warm glow pervaded the whole atmosphere of the marquee, and a single big blue fly buzzed musically round and round it. Besides the buzz of the fly there was not a sound. He looked about—at the benches—at the table supported by trestles—at his basket of tools—at the stove where the furmity had been boiled—at the empty basins—at some shed grains of wheat—at the corks which dotted the grassy floor. Among the odds and ends he discerned a little shining object, and picked it up. It was his wife's ring.

A confused picture of the events of the previous evening seemed to come back to him, and he thrust his hand into his coat pocket. A rustling revealed the sailor's bank-note thrust carelessly in.

This second verification of his dim memories was enough; he knew now they were not&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6dtbbfsbkeqyvetz8g5wnpugzeeoj1x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131455</id>
      <parentid>15131452</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:40:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131455</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="917" sha1="3veszwoogjgdfs6hbsk8jpkqeu5onk3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{c|25}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|CHAPTER II.}}

{{sc|The}} morning sun was streaming through the crevices of the canvas when the man awoke. A warm glow pervaded the whole atmosphere of the marquee, and a single big blue fly buzzed musically round and round it. Besides the buzz of the fly there was not a sound. He looked about—at the benches—at the table supported by trestles—at his basket of tools—at the stove where the furmity had been boiled—at the empty basins—at some shed grains of wheat—at the corks which dotted the grassy floor. Among the odds and ends he discerned a little shining object, and picked it up. It was his wife's ring.

A confused picture of the events of the previous evening seemed to come back to him, and he thrust his hand into his coat pocket. A rustling revealed the sailor's bank-note thrust carelessly in.

This second verification of his dim memories was enough; he knew now they were not&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3veszwoogjgdfs6hbsk8jpkqeu5onk3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/219</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847258</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131453</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:39:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza |Maybe they're getting tired of sitting on the fence; it dawns on them that the whole damn swindle is played at their expense. &lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;   &lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt; {{tpp|STAND UP!—| |Stand up, but not for Jesus! It's a little late for that. Stand up for justice and a jolly life. I'll hold your hat.  Stand up, stand up for justice ye swindled little blokes! Stand up and do some punching, give 'em a few hard pokes.  Stand up for...</comment>
      <origin>15131453</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="714" sha1="pqrdziuph47wbab7t079f03yrk2kz9z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|Maybe they're getting tired
of sitting on the fence;
it dawns on them that the whole damn swindle
is played at their expense.
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;


&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|STAND UP!—|
|Stand up, but not for Jesus!
It's a little late for that.
Stand up for justice and a jolly life.
I'll hold your hat.

Stand up, stand up for justice
ye swindled little blokes!
Stand up and do some punching,
give 'em a few hard pokes.

Stand up for jolly justice
you haven't got much to lose:
a job you don't like and a scanty chance
for a dreary little booze.

Stand up for something different,
and have a little fun
fighting for something worth fighting for
before you've done.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|199}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pqrdziuph47wbab7t079f03yrk2kz9z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131456</id>
      <parentid>15131453</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:40:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131456</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="715" sha1="71f9oveh8o2pplzss4zhir0kn2svhbt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|Maybe they're getting tired
of sitting on the fence;
it dawns on them that the whole damn swindle
is played at their expense.}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;


&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|STAND UP!—
|Stand up, but not for Jesus!
It's a little late for that.
Stand up for justice and a jolly life.
I'll hold your hat.

Stand up, stand up for justice
ye swindled little blokes!
Stand up and do some punching,
give 'em a few hard pokes.

Stand up for jolly justice
you haven't got much to lose:
a job you don't like and a scanty chance
for a dreary little booze.

Stand up for something different,
and have a little fun
fighting for something worth fighting for
before you've done.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|199}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>71f9oveh8o2pplzss4zhir0kn2svhbt</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/45</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847259</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131454</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:40:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131454</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="891" sha1="7brk43ktw0u603pap15roel4qdhcl1r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=stanza|
He read of pious Englishmen
:Who slaughter as they please
To boom Egyptian bonds, and stab
:The wounded Soudanese.

He read of Russian men-at-arms
:Who torture as they will
The gentle, peaceful Doukhobors
:Because they will not kill;
He read of mighty realms that rob
:Poor China of her soil,
And carve up Africa because
:The victor's is the spoil.

He read of Poland tyrannized,
:Of Ireland held by hate,
Of Finland cheated of her rights,
:And Kruger's tottering state,
Of Cuba and the Congo too,
:Samoa and far Tonquin{{mdash}}
The whole world made a hell of blood
:By governmental sin.

He ceased to read, and for a time
:An awful silence fell,
While all were waiting anxiously
:To hear what Peace might tell.
At last she spake, and, breathing fast
:With loud, indignant speech,
She thundered at the sorry crew
:With words that shook them each.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|41}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7brk43ktw0u603pap15roel4qdhcl1r</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131474</id>
      <parentid>15131454</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:49:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>header</comment>
      <origin>15131474</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="918" sha1="07u6lzeoj7dkiyjhfneuu1ra87khrr5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|||The Peace Congress}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=stanza|
He read of pious Englishmen
:Who slaughter as they please
To boom Egyptian bonds, and stab
:The wounded Soudanese.

He read of Russian men-at-arms
:Who torture as they will
The gentle, peaceful Doukhobors
:Because they will not kill;
He read of mighty realms that rob
:Poor China of her soil,
And carve up Africa because
:The victor's is the spoil.

He read of Poland tyrannized,
:Of Ireland held by hate,
Of Finland cheated of her rights,
:And Kruger's tottering state,
Of Cuba and the Congo too,
:Samoa and far Tonquin{{mdash}}
The whole world made a hell of blood
:By governmental sin.

He ceased to read, and for a time
:An awful silence fell,
While all were waiting anxiously
:To hear what Peace might tell.
At last she spake, and, breathing fast
:With loud, indignant speech,
She thundered at the sorry crew
:With words that shook them each.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|41}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>07u6lzeoj7dkiyjhfneuu1ra87khrr5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/218</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847260</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131458</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:41:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{tpp|WILLY WET-LEG |I can't stand Willy wet-leg, can't stand him at any price. He's resigned, and when you hit him he lets you hit him twice.}} &lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;  &lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt; {{tpp|MAYBE— |Ah well! ah well! maybe the young have learned some sense. They ought at last to see through the game, they've sat long enough on the fence.  Maybe their little bottoms will get tired and sore at last of sitting there on the fence, and letting their good y...</comment>
      <origin>15131458</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="613" sha1="ssok06s53mhtpibu8v019h2usn29c2r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|WILLY WET-LEG
|I can't stand Willy wet-leg,
can't stand him at any price.
He's resigned, and when you hit him
he lets you hit him twice.}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|MAYBE—
|Ah well! ah well! maybe
the young have learned some sense.
They ought at last to see through the game,
they've sat long enough on the fence.

Maybe their little bottoms
will get tired and sore at last
of sitting there on the fence, and letting
their good youth go to waste.

Maybe a sense of destiny
will rise in them one day,
maybe they'll realize it's time
they slipped into the fray.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|198}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ssok06s53mhtpibu8v019h2usn29c2r</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/217</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847261</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131459</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:41:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=follow just in desperation, because their spirit can't move? Because their hope is pinned down by the system and can't even flutter? Wellwell,ifitissoitisso; but remember, the undaunted gods give vitality still to the dauntless.  And sometimes they give it as love, ah love, sweet love, not so easy! But sometimes they give it as lightning.  And it's no good wailing for love if they only offer you lightning. And it's no good mooning for slopp...</comment>
      <origin>15131459</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="715" sha1="e7nva2u63m6bcxyf1yingtdidnksrkn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow
just in desperation,
because their spirit can't move?
Because their hope is pinned down by the system
and can't even flutter?
Wellwell,ifitissoitisso;
but remember, the undaunted gods
give vitality still to the dauntless.

And sometimes they give it as love,
ah love, sweet love, not so easy!
But sometimes they give it as lightning.

And it's no good wailing for love
if they only offer you lightning.
And it's no good mooning for sloppy ease
when they're holding out the thunderbolt
for you to take.

You might as well take the lightning
for once, and feel it go through you,
You might as well accept the thunderbolt
and prepare for storms.

You'll not get vitality any other way.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|197}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>e7nva2u63m6bcxyf1yingtdidnksrkn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131460</id>
      <parentid>15131459</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:42:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131460</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="716" sha1="dlk6psy341fihn32nuoz4cnn3vv900q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow
|just in desperation,
because their spirit can't move?
Because their hope is pinned down by the system
and can't even flutter?
Wellwell,ifitissoitisso;
but remember, the undaunted gods
give vitality still to the dauntless.

And sometimes they give it as love,
ah love, sweet love, not so easy!
But sometimes they give it as lightning.

And it's no good wailing for love
if they only offer you lightning.
And it's no good mooning for sloppy ease
when they're holding out the thunderbolt
for you to take.

You might as well take the lightning
for once, and feel it go through you,
You might as well accept the thunderbolt
and prepare for storms.

You'll not get vitality any other way.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|197}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dlk6psy341fihn32nuoz4cnn3vv900q</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/46</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847262</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131461</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:42:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131461</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1011" sha1="8q0eb8vtkg6fcppb17eflypcv3dhu89" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|The Peace Conference||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|end=follow|
And thus it is,&quot; she cried in scorn,
:You and your masters deal;
You fill the world with pain and grief
:And grind it with your heel;
You build huge ships to murder men;
:You make the heart breed hate;
You make the earth breed dynamite{{mdash}}
:And then you call you great.

You live by murder, hate and theft,
:And no one will pretend
Your masters have the least design
:To bring them to an end.
Ye hypocrites! who know full well
:That Peace can never reign
Until you cease from making war
:Nor take my name in vain.

Begone, base slaves of despots base,
:And drop your idle task,
Or else the world will laugh, for now
:I've stripped you of your mask.
Go home, and tell your masters all
:What they well knew before:
That when at last Peace rules the earth,
:Then they will rule no more.&quot;

She stopped and forth she stretched her hand,
:And, at this sign of hers,
They fled, their swords between their legs.
:Like a whipped pack of curs.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|42}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8q0eb8vtkg6fcppb17eflypcv3dhu89</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131475</id>
      <parentid>15131461</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:49:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>header</comment>
      <origin>15131475</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1009" sha1="fdbga46vv6whqftyi25dwjwszdw8inu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|The Peace Congress||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|end=follow|
And thus it is,&quot; she cried in scorn,
:You and your masters deal;
You fill the world with pain and grief
:And grind it with your heel;
You build huge ships to murder men;
:You make the heart breed hate;
You make the earth breed dynamite{{mdash}}
:And then you call you great.

You live by murder, hate and theft,
:And no one will pretend
Your masters have the least design
:To bring them to an end.
Ye hypocrites! who know full well
:That Peace can never reign
Until you cease from making war
:Nor take my name in vain.

Begone, base slaves of despots base,
:And drop your idle task,
Or else the world will laugh, for now
:I've stripped you of your mask.
Go home, and tell your masters all
:What they well knew before:
That when at last Peace rules the earth,
:Then they will rule no more.&quot;

She stopped and forth she stretched her hand,
:And, at this sign of hers,
They fled, their swords between their legs.
:Like a whipped pack of curs.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|42}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fdbga46vv6whqftyi25dwjwszdw8inu</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/216</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847263</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131462</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:43:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|begin=stanza |You said I might dear Lord of right be so contrary. SomayIbeJane to-night, and refrain from being Mary'— &lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;   &lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt; {{tpp|VITALITY |Alas, my poor young men do you lack vitality?  Has the shell grown too heavy for the tortoise? Does he just squirm?  Is the frame of things too heavy for poor young wretched men? Do they jazz and jump and wriggle and rush about in machines and listen to bodiless noises a...</comment>
      <origin>15131462</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="538" sha1="hu3f2gvnyy1skwwrbavdxoqqk6ifpor" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|begin=stanza
|You said I might
dear Lord of right
be so contrary.
SomayIbeJane
to-night, and refrain
from being Mary'—
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;


&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|VITALITY
|Alas, my poor young men
do you lack vitality?

Has the shell grown too heavy for the tortoise?
Does he just squirm?

Is the frame of things too heavy
for poor young wretched men?
Do they jazz and jump and wriggle
and rush about in machines
and listen to bodiless noises
and cling to their thin young women
as to the last straw
|end=follow}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|196}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hu3f2gvnyy1skwwrbavdxoqqk6ifpor</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131463</id>
      <parentid>15131462</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:43:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131463</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="540" sha1="sc54f5y25nlcrbb9h6c4kav6editqpg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|begin=stanza
|You said I might
dear Lord of right
be so contrary.
SomayIbeJane
to-night, and refrain
from being Mary'—}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;


&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|VITALITY
|Alas, my poor young men
do you lack vitality?

Has the shell grown too heavy for the tortoise?
Does he just squirm?

Is the frame of things too heavy
for poor young wretched men?
Do they jazz and jump and wriggle
and rush about in machines
and listen to bodiless noises
and cling to their thin young women
as to the last straw
|end=follow}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|196}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>sc54f5y25nlcrbb9h6c4kav6editqpg</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/215</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847264</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131464</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:44:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza |And now you know how good we were up there in the snow with Lady C. though you hated her at the first go.  Yet now you can see how she set us free to laugh, and to be more spontaneous, and we were happy, weren't we up there in the snow with the world below!  So now, when you say your prayers at night you must sometimes pray: Dear Lord of delight may I be Jane to-night, profane but sweet in your sight, though last night I was Mary— |...</comment>
      <origin>15131464</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="482" sha1="tr31sdzah8226aei3i0yw0h3i00brai" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|And now you know
how good we were
up there in the snow
with Lady C.
though you hated her
at the first go.

Yet now you can see
how she set us free
to laugh, and to be
more spontaneous, and we
were happy, weren't we
up there in the snow
with the world below!

So now, when you say
your prayers at night
you must sometimes pray:
Dear Lord of delight
may I be Jane
to-night, profane
but sweet in your sight,
though last night I was Mary—
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|195}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tr31sdzah8226aei3i0yw0h3i00brai</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>He Who Gets Slapped/Act II</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847265</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131465</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:44:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title    = [[../|He Who Gets Slapped]]  | author   = Leonid Andreyev  | translator = Gregory Zilboorg  | year = 1949  | section  = Act II  | previous = [[../Act I/]]  | next     = [[../Act III/]]  | notes    =  }} {{default layout|Layout 2}} &lt;pages index=&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot; from=67 to=113 /&gt;&quot;</comment>
      <origin>15131465</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="318" sha1="dmy7y1f3wmq7t55tsma2bce0qqynygc" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title    = [[../|He Who Gets Slapped]]
 | author   = Leonid Andreyev
 | translator = Gregory Zilboorg
 | year = 1949
 | section  = Act II
 | previous = [[../Act I/]]
 | next     = [[../Act III/]]
 | notes    = 
}}
{{default layout|Layout 2}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot; from=67 to=113 /&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dmy7y1f3wmq7t55tsma2bce0qqynygc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/47</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847266</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131468</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:46:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131468</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1017" sha1="aun8tbft9nol7gxhxyawnxxwgz5vbc7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|||Woman and War}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|
There stood she, and for all I know,
:There stands she still serene,
Triumphant in that empty hall
:Above the table green.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The Peace Conference&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;Woman and War&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''Woman and War'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=stanza|
{{di|I}} SAW a lamb gnashing its untried teeth,
Rending the fleece
Of its own brother, piece by piece.
Until beneath
Blood trickled red upon the heath,
And stained the mouth of that perverted lamb{{mdash}}
That mouth not made to frighten,
But rather to whiten
With the innocent milk of its dam.

I heard a bobolink in June
Forget its limpid tune,
And choose the shriek and angry talk
Of a carrion hawk;
And I saw it swooping, mad, relentless, down,
Where in a tuft of long couch-grass
Lay an unprotected nest,
Hidden from those who pass,
But spied from above as a spot of brown
By the bird on its ruthless quest.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Woman and War&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|43}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>aun8tbft9nol7gxhxyawnxxwgz5vbc7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131477</id>
      <parentid>15131468</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:49:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>fix section name</comment>
      <origin>15131477</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1015" sha1="5m8r9oyj2yv5frbsejvkawll97yaa37" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|||Woman and War}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|
There stood she, and for all I know,
:There stands she still serene,
Triumphant in that empty hall
:Above the table green.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The Peace Congress&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;Woman and War&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''Woman and War'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=stanza|
{{di|I}} SAW a lamb gnashing its untried teeth,
Rending the fleece
Of its own brother, piece by piece.
Until beneath
Blood trickled red upon the heath,
And stained the mouth of that perverted lamb{{mdash}}
That mouth not made to frighten,
But rather to whiten
With the innocent milk of its dam.

I heard a bobolink in June
Forget its limpid tune,
And choose the shriek and angry talk
Of a carrion hawk;
And I saw it swooping, mad, relentless, down,
Where in a tuft of long couch-grass
Lay an unprotected nest,
Hidden from those who pass,
But spied from above as a spot of brown
By the bird on its ruthless quest.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Woman and War&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|43}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5m8r9oyj2yv5frbsejvkawll97yaa37</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/214</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847267</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131470</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:46:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza |And all the sacred gentry so responsible and good, feeling so ''kind'' towards you and suckin' your blood!  My! the bloomin' pompoms! Even as trimmings they're stale. Still, if you don't want to bother, I don't care myself a whale.}} &lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;  &lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt; {{tpp|HENRIETTE |O Henriette I remember yet how cross you were over Lady C. how you hated her and detested me.  Yet now you see you don't mind a bit. You've go...</comment>
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      <text bytes="518" sha1="a9wrf4a9ql8ukk33kvjacuhoyh2551e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|And all the sacred gentry
so responsible and good,
feeling so ''kind'' towards you
and suckin' your blood!

My! the bloomin' pompoms!
Even as trimmings they're stale.
Still, if you don't want to bother,
I don't care myself a whale.}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|HENRIETTE
|O Henriette
I remember yet
how cross you were
over Lady C.
how you hated her
and detested me.

Yet now you see
you don't mind a bit.
You've got used to it,
and you feel more free.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|194}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/213</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847268</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131471</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:47:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza Their superiority was meanness, they were cunning about the goods and sly with a lot of after-thought, and they put it over us, the duds!  And I'd let myself be swindled half believing 'em, till one day I suddenly said: I've finished! My God, let me get away!}} &lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;  &lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt; {{tpp|HAVE DONE WITH IT— |Once and for all, have done with it, all the silly bunk of upper class superiority; that superior stuff is...</comment>
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      <text bytes="722" sha1="ap26s603s49lk8dh3gq4fnj6q72qy2k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
Their superiority was meanness,
they were cunning about the goods
and sly with a lot of after-thought,
and they put it over us, the duds!

And I'd let myself be swindled
half believing 'em, till one day
I suddenly said: I've finished!
My God, let me get away!}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|HAVE DONE WITH IT—
|Once and for all, have done with it,
all the silly bunk
of upper class superiority; that superior
stuff is just holy skunk.

Just you walk around them
and look at the fat-eyed lot
and tell me how they can put it across,
this superior rot!

All these gracious ladies
graciously bowing down
from their pedestals! Holy Moses
they've done you brown!
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|193}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131513</id>
      <parentid>15131471</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:10:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15131513</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="723" sha1="tok0xhvjudxm4b7ffbmk7sgn85ule69" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|Their superiority was meanness,
they were cunning about the goods
and sly with a lot of after-thought,
and they put it over us, the duds!

And I'd let myself be swindled
half believing 'em, till one day
I suddenly said: I've finished!
My God, let me get away!}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|HAVE DONE WITH IT—
|Once and for all, have done with it,
all the silly bunk
of upper class superiority; that superior
stuff is just holy skunk.

Just you walk around them
and look at the fat-eyed lot
and tell me how they can put it across,
this superior rot!

All these gracious ladies
graciously bowing down
from their pedestals! Holy Moses
they've done you brown!
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|193}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/67</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847269</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131476</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:49:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|ACT II}}  {{italic block/s}} The same room, during the evening performance. Occasional music, laughter, shrieks, and applause are audible. Through the small windows, back centre, the light is shining.  Consuelo and Baron Regnard occupy the stage; Consuelo wears her stage costume; she sits with her feet on the sofa, a small sharel covering her shoulders. Before her stands the Baron, a tall stout man in evening dress, a rose in his buttonhole; grasping...</comment>
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      <text bytes="913" sha1="a8npwo6itpuzw1ujqkfpsyffg9k6kbf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{dhr|4}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|ACT II}}

{{italic block/s}}
The same room, during the evening performance. Occasional music, laughter, shrieks, and applause are audible. Through the small windows, back centre, the light is shining.

Consuelo and Baron Regnard occupy the stage; Consuelo wears her stage costume; she sits with her feet on the sofa, a small sharel covering her shoulders. Before her stands the Baron, a tall stout man in evening dress, a rose in his buttonhole; grasping the ground with feet well apart, he gazes at her with convex spider-like eyes.
{{italic block/e}}

{{sc|Baron}}

Is it true that your father, the Count, has introduced you to a certain Marquis Justi, a very rich man?

{{sc|Consuelo}}

[''Surprised'']: No, he is only joking. I have often heard him speak of a Marquis Justi but I have never seen him{{longdash}}

{{sc|Baron}}

And do you know that your father is just a charlatan?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|49}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131478</id>
      <parentid>15131476</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:49:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="913" sha1="abzh7e4r4iyxsz8nt5011evq5nuadcy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{dhr|4}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|ACT II}}

{{italic block/s}}
The same room, during the evening performance. Occasional music, laughter, shrieks, and applause are audible. Through the small windows, back centre, the light is shining.

Consuelo and Baron Regnard occupy the stage; Consuelo wears her stage costume; she sits with her feet on the sofa, a small sharel covering her shoulders. Before her stands the Baron, a tall stout man in evening dress, a rose in his buttonhole; grasping the ground with feet well apart, he gazes at her with convex spider-like eyes.
{{italic block/e}}

{{sc|Baron}}

Is it true that your father, the Count, has introduced you to a certain Marquis Justi, a very rich man?

{{sc|Consuelo}}

[''Surprised'']: No, he is only joking. I have often heard him speak of a Marquis Justi but I have never seen him{{longdash}}

{{sc|Baron}}

And do you know that your father is just a charlatan?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|49}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>abzh7e4r4iyxsz8nt5011evq5nuadcy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132230</id>
      <parentid>15131478</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:04:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
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      <text bytes="931" sha1="dl7mpc1v4e3sbse5w7nozqi3hkdvv9g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{dhr|4}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|ACT II}}

{{italic block/s}}
The same room, during the evening performance. Occasional music, laughter, shrieks, and applause are audible. Through the small windows, back centre, the light is shining.

Consuelo and Baron Regnard occupy the stage; Consuelo wears her stage costume; she sits with her feet on the sofa, a small shawl covering her shoulders. Before her stands the Baron, a tall stout man in evening dress, a rose in his buttonhole; grasping the ground with feet well apart, he gazes at her with convex spider-like eyes.
{{italic block/e}}


{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

Is it true that your father, the Count, has introduced you to a certain Marquis Justi, a very rich man?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Surprised'']: No, he is only joking. I have often heard him speak of a Marquis Justi but I have never seen him{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

And do you know that your father is just a charlatan?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|49}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dl7mpc1v4e3sbse5w7nozqi3hkdvv9g</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Swords and Plowshares/The Peace Congress</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847270</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131481</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:50:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>transclude poem</comment>
      <origin>15131481</origin>
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      <text bytes="511" sha1="hz1ypl2csw2uf2b5dux0qd3h02rfwup" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = The Peace Congress
 | previous    = [[../Russia and America|Russia and America, August {{oldstyle|29, 1898}}]]
 | next        = [[../Woman and War/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf&quot; from=42 to=47 fromsection=&quot;The Peace Congress&quot; tosection=&quot;The Peace Congress&quot; /&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hz1ypl2csw2uf2b5dux0qd3h02rfwup</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/168</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847271</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131487</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:54:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131487</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1072" sha1="mjviqanr1eo658k3it4mhj3dujf4f98" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|138|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;was anxious to know what sort of dances were the fashion there. I described our quadrilles and country dances, which had been introduced by a Mr. C{{longdash}}, the greatest beau that over came to St. Helena. This youth was such an exquisite, that he would sit with his feet elevated considerably above his head for an hour before dressing for dinner, that he might squeeze them the more readily into tight shoes; he wore his epaulette nearly down to his elbow; and his sword belt was embroidered with golden oak leaves. The same kind of embroidery confined his silk stocking round each knee, where it resembled the order of the garter. His disgust was very great at finding the St. Helena ladies understand nothing but kitchen dances, and reels; and he immediately began to drill, and, after much toil, succeeded in instructing them in the mysteries of the quadrille figures. Once, whilst he was figuring away in the capacity of dancing master, my mother very uncere-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mjviqanr1eo658k3it4mhj3dujf4f98</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/169</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847272</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131490</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:56:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131490</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1073" sha1="6zuzym97ijr53avx4ayj3dcudgd3hyo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|139|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;moniously put her foot on his heel, because he stood bending before her, and nearly extinguishing her eye with the swallow tails of his uniform coat. The perplexity this occasioned him was considerable, from the difficulty he had in thrusting his foot again into its tiny case.

Napoleon was so amused with our description of young C{{longdash}}, that he begged us to bring him to Longwood, if he could get a pass; one was accordingly procured; and as the emperor's eye rested on him, putting on a most comical look, he told him that he had heard from Miss Betsee that he was a great ''dandy'',{{mdash}}which was any thing but pleasing intelligence to the young hero, who began to think he was indebted for the honour of his interview with the great man to the circumstance of his being considered a sort of tom-fool. Napoleon, suiting his conversation (which, as I have before said, he always did) to his company, began admiring the cut of his coat, and said, &quot;You are&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6zuzym97ijr53avx4ayj3dcudgd3hyo</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/170</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847273</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131491</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:57:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131491</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1037" sha1="mr18ui13tsubaj9zqen6858q6pwjiwa" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|140|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;more fortunate than myself, for I am obliged to wear my coat turned;&quot; this had really been the case, as no cloth could be procured on the island of the shade of green worn by Napoleon and his suite. Young C{{longdash}}'s interview with the great man, however, ended very satisfactorily to both; for, although a little too conceited, he was very gentlemanly, spoke French fluently, and left a pleasing impression on the exile of Longwood.

One morning, my father told me he was going to Longwood, and had been requested by the emperor to bring myself and sister to see him, as he had something curious to show us. We were only too happy to obey his wishes; and the next day saw us at Longwood. He reproached us for having so long neglected to pay him a visit, and wished to know why we had absented ourselves so much from him: on my telling him, I had but just recovered from a slight attack of ''coup de soleil'', he was quite cheer-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mr18ui13tsubaj9zqen6858q6pwjiwa</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/171</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847274</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131492</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:58:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131492</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1071" sha1="pp0mke8wwa5dinhob3hot0g7tj3jjoe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|141|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ing in his sympathy. I told him it had been occasioned by my walking with Captain Mackey and my sister to call on Mrs. Wilks, and that our way led over the high mountain at the back of the Briars, called Peak Hill. It was certainly a tremendous undertaking for one so young to attempt. The mountain is not accessible to four-footed animals, and is 2000 feet in height, and nearly perpendicular. Imagine, therefore, our toiling to its summit, and de-scending to the deep valley beneath, crossing Francis Plain, and ascending two mountain ridges, before terminating our expedition! We arrived at Plantation House worn and weary; but when once there, the kindness of the lady governess, and the care and attention of her amiable and lovely daughter, soon made us forget our fatigues; and at noon of that same day we started for Sir William D{{longdash}}'s lovely valley of &quot;Fairy Land.&quot; I described all our adventure, and the kind-ness we had received from Mrs. Wilks at&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pp0mke8wwa5dinhob3hot0g7tj3jjoe</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/172</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847275</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131493</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T12:59:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131493</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1062" sha1="t7kqtdt86250gv4swhp39ointxy5617" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|142|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Plantation House, and from Miss D{{longdash}} at Fairy Land. A few days after Napoleon invited the former lady, with her husband and daughter, to Longwood, but from political reasons the honour of the interview was declined. The wonderful exhibition we were invited to see, was the process of turning water into ice by one of Leslie's machines, sent out to Napoleon for that purpose; he explained the process to us, and tried to enlighten me as to the principle upon which air-pumps were formed; he advised me, moreover, to get a book upon elementary chemistry, for my amusement and improvement; and finished, as usual, by turning to my father, recommending him to enforce a lesson every day, and directing the good O'Meara, as he called his doctor, to be my examiner. After making a cup of ice, he insisted upon my putting a large piece into my mouth, and laughed to see the contortions it induced from the excessive cold. It was the first ice that had ever&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t7kqtdt86250gv4swhp39ointxy5617</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/173</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847276</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131495</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:00:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131495</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1019" sha1="pakcs8q54076u7hezeond6v4r49nn8f" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|143|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;been seen at St. Helena; and a young island lady, Miss De F{{longdash}}, who was with us, would not believe that the solid mass in her hand was really frozen water, until it melted and streamed down her fingers. I recollect ending the morning's diversions by cutting from Napoleon's coat an embroidered bugle, and running away with it as a trophy. I now regret that I did not keep it; but, like most other relics and valuable mementos, I gave it away{{mdash}}it was attached to the coat he wore at Waterloo.

The emperor asked me one day, whether I was acquainted with Captain Wallis, who commanded the &quot;Podargus;&quot; and on my replying in the affirmative, he said, somewhat abruptly, &quot;What does he think of me?&quot; It so happened, that, in the case of this officer, the prejudice against Napoleon (and indeed against every thing French, at that time common to all Englishmen) was sharpened, upon the whetstone of painful&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pakcs8q54076u7hezeond6v4r49nn8f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131512</id>
      <parentid>15131495</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:10:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>link Wallis</comment>
      <origin>15131512</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="1059" sha1="r69aks4sth86r0ol86hgwqop9bq4auj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|143|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;been seen at St. Helena; and a young island lady, Miss De F{{longdash}}, who was with us, would not believe that the solid mass in her hand was really frozen water, until it melted and streamed down her fingers. I recollect ending the morning's diversions by cutting from Napoleon's coat an embroidered bugle, and running away with it as a trophy. I now regret that I did not keep it; but, like most other relics and valuable mementos, I gave it away{{mdash}}it was attached to the coat he wore at Waterloo.

The emperor asked me one day, whether I was acquainted with [[Royal Naval Biography/Wallis, James|Captain Wallis]], who commanded the &quot;Podargus;&quot; and on my replying in the affirmative, he said, somewhat abruptly, &quot;What does he think of me?&quot; It so happened, that, in the case of this officer, the prejudice against Napoleon (and indeed against every thing French, at that time common to all Englishmen) was sharpened, upon the whetstone of painful&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/174</title>
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    <title>He Who Gets Slapped/Act III</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title    = [[../|He Who Gets Slapped]]  | author   = Leonid Andreyev  | translator = Gregory Zilboorg  | year = 1949  | section  = Act III  | previous = [[../Act II/]]  | next     = [[../Act IV/]]  | notes    =  }} {{default layout|Layout 2}} &lt;pages index=&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot; from=114 to=162 /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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 | title    = [[../|He Who Gets Slapped]]
 | author   = Leonid Andreyev
 | translator = Gregory Zilboorg
 | year = 1949
 | section  = Act III
 | previous = [[../Act II/]]
 | next     = [[../Act IV/]]
 | notes    = 
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{{ppoem|end=stanza|
{{di|T}}{{uc|he}} gentle wind that waves
: The green boughs here and there,
Is showing how my hand
: Weaved Kitty’s finer hair.

The Bee, when all his joints
: Are clinging to a Blossom,
Is showing how I clung
: To Kitty's softer bosom.

The Rill, when his sweet voice
: Is hushed by water-cresses,
Is Kitty’s sweeter voice
: Subdued by my long kisses.

Those little stars that shine
: So happy in the skies,
Ase those sweet babes I saw,
: Whose heaven was Kitty’s eyes.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|85}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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The emperor observed, that it was not to be wondered at that Captain Wallis was so inveterate against him, as he was the lieutenant who, together with Wright, had been convicted of landing spies and brigands in his territories, for which they were afterwards reported to have been murdered by his (the emperor's) orders. [[w:Pichegru Conspiracy|The conspiracy of Georges, Moreau and Pichegru]], in which Captains Wright and Wallis were supposed to have been mixed up, has been so often described, and so ably discussed, that there&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>He Who Gets Slapped/Act IV</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title    = [[../|He Who Gets Slapped]]  | author   = Leonid Andreyev  | translator = Gregory Zilboorg  | year = 1949  | section  = Act IV  | previous = [[../Act III/]]  | next     =   | notes    =  }} {{default layout|Layout 2}} &lt;pages index=&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot; from=163 to=211 /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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 | title    = [[../|He Who Gets Slapped]]
 | author   = Leonid Andreyev
 | translator = Gregory Zilboorg
 | year = 1949
 | section  = Act IV
 | previous = [[../Act III/]]
 | next     = 
 | notes    = 
}}
{{default layout|Layout 2}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu&quot; from=163 to=211 /&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf/94</title>
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The Moon, that casts her beam
: Upon the hill’s dark crest,
Is Kitty’s whiter arm
: Across my hairy breast.

The hazel nuts, when paired
: Unseen beneath the boughs,
Are Kitty and myself,
: Whenever Chance allows.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|86}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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The Moon, that casts her beam
: Upon the hill’s dark crest,
Is Kitty’s whiter arm
: Across my hairy breast.

The hazel nuts, when paired
: Unseen beneath the boughs,
Are Kitty and myself,
: Whenever Chance allows.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|86}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/176</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131507</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:07:40Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1057" sha1="i7t9ni6rd1a0u55wnn5y4jp0hvjyfb3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|146|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;are few who have taken an interest in the history of Napoleon, but must be well acquainted with all the circumstances connected with it. I remember being greatly interested with Wallis's narrative of his escape from prison, as it was told to us by him. Although years have passed since I heard it, still it is as freshly graven on my memory as when first my wondering ears listened to the exciting history. After ten long years of dreary captivity, urged by that powerful stimulus which hope builds upon despair, with the assistance of a rusty knife which he had contrived to conceal from his gaoler, he succeeded in moving one of the bars from his prison windows. The first great obstacle being removed, he found he had to overcome another, not less formidable. A hundred feet beneath the aperture which his patience and skill had succeeded in making large enough for his egress, flowed the still, dark waters of the Seine. As a drowning man catches at&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>The Collected Poems of William H. Davies/Kitty and I</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title       = [[../|The Collected Poems of William H. Davies]]  | author      = William Henry Davies  | translator  =   | year        = 1916  | section     = Kitty and I  | previous    = [[../Jenny Wren/]]  | next        = [[../A Drinking Song/]]  | notes       =  }} &lt;pages index=&quot;The collected poems of William H. Davies (IA collectedpoemsof00davi).pdf&quot; from=93 to=94 /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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 | title       = [[../|The Collected Poems of William H. Davies]]
 | author      = William Henry Davies
 | translator  = 
 | year        = 1916
 | section     = Kitty and I
 | previous    = [[../Jenny Wren/]]
 | next        = [[../A Drinking Song/]]
 | notes       = 
}}
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    <title>Page:The mayor of Casterbridge (1886 Volume 1).pdf/38</title>
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Here the man looked around with gloomy curiosity. The freshness of the September morning inspired and braced him as he stood. He and his family had been weary when they arrived the night before, and they had observed but little of the place; so that he now beheld it as a new thing. It exhibited. itself as the top of an open down, bounded on one extreme by a plantation, and approached by a winding road. At the bottom&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|ACT III}}  {{italic block/s}} The same room. Morning, before the rehearsal. HE is striding thoughtfully up and down the room. He wears a broad, parti-coloured coat, and a prismatic tie. His derby is on the back of his head, and his face is clean-shaven like that of an actor. His eyebrows are drawn, lips pressed together energetically, his whole appearance severe and sombre. After the entrance of the gentleman he changes. His face becomes clown-like,...</comment>
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{{italic block/s}}
The same room. Morning, before the rehearsal. HE is striding thoughtfully up and down the room. He wears a broad, parti-coloured coat, and a prismatic tie. His derby is on the back of his head, and his face is clean-shaven like that of an actor. His eyebrows are drawn, lips pressed together energetically, his whole appearance severe and sombre. After the entrance of the gentleman he changes. His face becomes clown-like, mobile—a living mask.

The gentleman comes in. He is dressed in black, and has an extremely well-bred appearance. His thin face is yellowish, like an invalid's. When he is upset, his colourless, dull eyes often twitch. HE does not notice him.
{{italic block/e}}

{{csc|Gentleman}}

Good morning, sir.

{{csc|He}}

[''Turning around and looking at him absent-mindedly'']: Ah! It's you.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|96}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{italic block/s}}
The same room. Morning, before the rehearsal. HE is striding thoughtfully up and down the room. He wears a broad, parti-coloured coat, and a prismatic tie. His derby is on the back of his head, and his face is clean-shaven like that of an actor. His eyebrows are drawn, lips pressed together energetically, his whole appearance severe and sombre. After the entrance of the gentleman he changes. His face becomes clown-like, mobile—a living mask.

The gentleman comes in. He is dressed in black, and has an extremely well-bred appearance. His thin face is yellowish, like an invalid's. When he is upset, his colourless, dull eyes often twitch. HE does not notice him.
{{italic block/e}}

{{csc|Gentleman}}

Good morning, sir.

{{csc|He}}

[''Turning around and looking at him absent-mindedly'']: Ah! It's you.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|96}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{italic block/s}}
The same room. Morning, before the rehearsal. {{sc|He}} is striding thoughtfully up and down the room. He wears a broad, parti-coloured coat, and a prismatic tie. His derby is on the back of his head, and his face is clean-shaven like that of an actor. His eyebrows are drawn, lips pressed together energetically, his whole appearance severe and sombre. After the entrance of the gentleman he changes. His face becomes clown-like, mobile—a living mask.

The gentleman comes in. He is dressed in black, and has an extremely well-bred appearance. His thin face is yellowish, like an invalid's. When he is upset, his colourless, dull eyes often twitch. {{sc|He}} does not notice him.
{{italic block/e}}

{{csc|Gentleman}}

Good morning, sir.

{{csc|He}}

[''Turning around and looking at him absent-mindedly'']: Ah! It's you.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|96}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="994" sha1="fxxc0hcho8i5ntihpnmf3r68ej842t0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|148|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;afterwards appointed to the Podargus, and sent to cruise off St. Helena, he being, naturally enough, supposed to be the best guard to set over one, whom he hated as deeply as he did Napoleon.

We always made a point of riding to Longwood every New Year's day, to wish the emperor a happy new year, and we dined with him or Madame Bertrand, though more frequently with the former. I recollect one New Year's day I had been anticipating a present from the emperor all the morning, and as the day wore on, my hopes began to wax faint, and I was beginning to make up my mind to have nothing new and pretty to feast my eyes upon, when Napoleon himself waddled into Madame Bertrand's room, where my sister and I were seated, and perhaps rather enviously viewing some elegant souvenirs of which the emperor had made the countess a present that morning. In his hand were two beautiful Sévres cups,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu/57</title>
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&lt;&gt; Act V, page 118.

Loruhamah—(''kneeling at Saul’s feet''.)
: If you have still the love that made me fair
: Unto your eyes, then follow far beyond
: The line of Eastern hills to Babylon,
: And build those promised crystal domes of dream.
: Forgetting you were ever Saul the King!
Saul—The host is waiting on the heights for Saul! 
Loruhamah—(''clasping her hands and looking up at Saul''.)
: Once you did plead—now Loruhamah pleads.
: We cannot call the years back from the knees
: Of Ashtoreth, but life is yet most fair
: And full of promise for our love delayed.
: Oh, take me, Saul! {{...|1}} See how I plead to you!
: Go not from me to death, but go with me
: To life—sweet life! {{...}} Surely the gods
: Are satisfied; they will not grudge the lees
: Left in the cup of Loruhamah’s love!
: I have been strong, kept faith; but now my will
: Flows down, like water from an age-long height
: Of ice-capped mountain melting in the sun!}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|—49—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The mayor of Casterbridge (1886 Volume 1).pdf/39</title>
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      <text bytes="1201" sha1="bm02sbonb1u0y16rclnl0bx3xxidb0z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|27|{{asc|THE MAYOR OF CASTERBRIDGE.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;stood the village which lent its name to the upland, and the annual fair that was held thereon. The spot stretched downward into valleys, and onward to other uplands, dotted with barrows, and trenched with the remains of prehistoric forts. The whole scene lay under the rays of a newly risen sun, which had not as yet dried a single blade of the heavily dewed grass, whereon the shadows of the yellow and red vans were projected far away, those thrown by the felloe of each wheel being elongated in shape to the orbit of a comet. All the gipsies and showmen who had remained on the ground lay snug within their carts and tents, or wrapped in horse-cloths under them, and were silent and still as death, with the exception of an occasional snore that revealed their presence. But the Seven Sleepers had a dog; and dogs of the mysterious breeds that vagrants own, that are as much like cats as dogs, and as much like foxes as cats, also lay about here. A little one started up under one of the carts, barked as a matter of principle, and quickly lay down again. He was the only positive spectator of the hay-trusser's exit from the Weydon fairfield.

{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/179</title>
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      <text bytes="1011" sha1="piyj62m0wwdpnidxr7doqdq5rhtbvum" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|149|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;exquisitely painted, one representing himself in Egypt, in the dress of a Mussulman; upon the other was delineated an Egyptian woman drawing water. &quot;Here, Mesdemoiselles Betsee and Jane, are two cups for you; accept them as a mark of the friendship I entertain for you both, and for your kindness to Madame Bertrand.&quot; Oh! how delighted I was with my beautiful gift; I would not trust it out of my hand, but rode with it wrapt in cotton all the way home, for fear of its being injured. It always brought a smile to Napoleon's countenance, whenever he gave pleasure to the young around him.

One day, before the emperor had left my father's, we were walking with him down the Pomegranate Walk which led to the garden, when suddenly the voices of strangers were heard, and he began running away as fast as he could towards the garden gate, but found it locked from within. The strangers steps approached nearer&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The mayor of Casterbridge (1886 Volume 1).pdf/40</title>
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      <text bytes="1193" sha1="lpwe6mlmxah5vieygi110e9na9tsudw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|28|{{asc|THE MAYOR OF CASTERBRIDGE.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;This seemed to accord with his desire. He went on in silent thought, unheeding the yellow-hammers which flitted about the hedges with straws in their bills, the crowns of the mushrooms, and the tinkling of local sheep-bells, whose wearers had had the good fortune not to be included in the fair. When he reached a lane, a good mile from the scene of the previous evening, the man pitched his basket, and leant upon a gate. A difficult problem or two occupied his mind.

&quot;Did I tell my name to anybody last night, or didn't I tell my name?&quot; he said to himself and at last concluded that he did not. His general demeanour was enough to show how he was surprised and nettled that his wife had taken him so literally—as much could be seen in his face, and in the way he nibbled a straw which he pulled from the hedge. He knew that she must have been somewhat excited to do this; moreover, she must have believed in the binding force of the transaction. On this latter point he felt quite certain, knowing her freedom from levity of character, and the extreme simplicity of her intellect. There may have been a little recklessness beneath her ordinary&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu/58</title>
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Saul—(''tenderly stroking her hair'')
: There is no music breathed by the harp
: Sweeter than your dear voice that tells me this,
: And in the knowledge of your love for me
: Death will become a falling into sleep;
: But my last moment thunders with such sound,
: That all earth’s voices mingle into it!
: Perchance Jehovah has set me this task
: In mercy, that my stormy life may end
: With some wide splendour of a sunset-sky!
:: (''Michal comes down and kneels at Loruhama’s side''.)
Michal—My father, hearken unto Loruhamah!
: Behold her tears! Can you withstand her tears?
Saul—Jehovah calls! Who may withstand His voice?
: Michal, behold I see where all was dark:
: David begins where Saul is at an end,
: And Samuel, anointing him, foretold
: The House of Jesse following the House
: Of Kish upon the throne of Israel.
: Go, tell David that Saul forgave the deed;
: And when they find me dead on Gilboa,}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|—50—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Saul—(''tenderly stroking her hair'')
: There is no music breathed by the harp
: Sweeter than your dear voice that tells me this,
: And in the knowledge of your love for me
: Death will become a falling into sleep;
: But my last moment thunders with such sound,
: That all earth’s voices mingle into it!
: Perchance Jehovah has set me this task
: In mercy, that my stormy life may end
: With some wide splendour of a sunset-sky!
::: (''Michal comes down and kneels at Loruhama’s side''.)
Michal—My father, hearken unto Loruhamah!
: Behold her tears! Can you withstand her tears?
Saul—Jehovah calls! Who may withstand His voice?
: Michal, behold I see where all was dark:
: David begins where Saul is at an end,
: And Samuel, anointing him, foretold
: The House of Jesse following the House
: Of Kish upon the throne of Israel.
: Go, tell David that Saul forgave the deed;
: And when they find me dead on Gilboa,}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|—50—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1025" sha1="dz7mkwt53diow22iumb9zjluwnzh6e7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|150|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and nearer, and Napoleon had nothing left for it, but to jump over the garden fence, which, unfortunately, was defended on the top by the prickly pear, a plant covered with thorns. When he found himself on the top, there he stuck, the thorny bush preventing his extricating himself. At length, after a considerable struggle, torn clothes, and with his legs much scratched, the discomfited emperor descended on the garden side of the hedge, before the advancing company surprised him. The wounds he received that day were of no trifling nature, and it required a little of Dr. O'Meara's skill to extract the thorns which the prickly pears had deposited in his imperial person.

Napoleon always evinced great kindness and interest for those who were ill, and his sympathy was much excited in the case of Captain Meynell who had a very severe and dangerous illness during the time he was stationed at St. Helena. I recollect&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="657" sha1="re6qzdaku0d7nx23i6hzc324arjz1sh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|151|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;perfectly whilst he was ill, under my father's roof, that Napoleon's ''maître d'hôtel'', Cipriani, came every day to inquire after him. When we saw the emperor, a few days after Captain Meynell left us, we told him that he had been moved to Plantation House, where he would have more room and better attention than at our cottage, and that he was so ill as to be obliged to be removed in his cot; he had a relapse, and his life was despaired of. The emperor begged, when next we saw Lady Lowe, we would send him word how the brave Captain was.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1156" sha1="kfu2ogvpvriwdtwfxszo40fywj7hntn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|29|{{asc|THE MAYOR OF CASTERBRIDGE.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;placidity. On a previous occasion when he had declared during a fuddle that he would. dispose of her as he had done, she had declared that she should not hear him say that many times more before it happened, in the resigned tones of a fatalist{{...|6}} &quot;Yet she knows I am not in my senses when I do that!&quot; he exclaimed. &quot;Well, I must walk about till I find her{{...|6}} Seize her, why didn't she know better than bring me into this disgrace&quot; he roared out. &quot;She wasn't queer if I was. 'Tis like Susan to show such idiotic simplicity. Meek—that meekness has done me more harm than the bitterest temper!&quot;

When he was calmer, he returned to his original conviction that he must somehow find her and his little Elizabeth-Jane, and put up with the shame as best he could. It was of his own making, and he ought to bear it. But first he resolved to register an oath, a greater oath than he had ever sworn before and to do it properly he required fit place and imagery; for there was something fetichistic in this man's beliefs.

He shouldered his basket and moved on, casting his eyes inquisitively round upon the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena/Chapter 13</title>
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      <comment>transclude chapter</comment>
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      <text bytes="378" sha1="0qj8xuxb9eevfoiwvm1jv4t5cy7khdi" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena
 | author      = Lucia Elizabeth Balcombe Abell
 | section     = Chapter XIII
 | previous    = [[../Chapter 12|Chapter XII]]
 | next        = [[../Chapter 14|Chapter XIV]]
 | year        = 1844
 | notes       = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; from=167 to=181 /&gt;</text>
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: Yield him the crown—yea, place it on his brows, 
: That song and youth’s sweet laughter stir again
: Throughout this stricken land, and all the world
: Grow glorious and golden in the sun!
:: (''Saul bends over Loruhamah, takes her hands and lifts her to his side''.)
: My Loruhamah, one fair city waits
: Our coming—fairer than far Babylon—
: Builded beyond the clouds! I go to lay
: Its streets with sapphires and adorn the walls
: With chrysoprase—make every gate a pearl,
: A moon of summer magic, musical
: At turning of each graven silver hinge,
: Melodious as filmy waterfalls!
:: (''He turns to Michal who rises at his word to he enfolded with Loruhamah in his arms''.)
: Michal, arise! The time for tears is past.
: Not on this star shall all the tale be told
: Of Saul and Loruhamah and their love.}}
:: (''There is a sudden and nearing blast of trumpets with a mighty shout of voices. The full, red disk, of the sun almost fills the entrance of the cave. Tenderly Saul frees himself from the embrace of Michal and Loruhamah. He goes towards the steps, ascends, pauses and''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|—51—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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: Yield him the crown—yea, place it on his brows, 
: That song and youth’s sweet laughter stir again
: Throughout this stricken land, and all the world
: Grow glorious and golden in the sun!
::: (''Saul bends over Loruhamah, takes her hands and lifts her to his side''.)
: My Loruhamah, one fair city waits
: Our coming—fairer than far Babylon—
: Builded beyond the clouds! I go to lay
: Its streets with sapphires and adorn the walls
: With chrysoprase—make every gate a pearl,
: A moon of summer magic, musical
: At turning of each graven silver hinge,
: Melodious as filmy waterfalls!
::: (''He turns to Michal who rises at his word to he enfolded with Loruhamah in his arms''.)
: Michal, arise! The time for tears is past.
: Not on this star shall all the tale be told
: Of Saul and Loruhamah and their love.}}
:: (''There is a sudden and nearing blast of trumpets with a mighty shout of voices. The full, red disk, of the sun almost fills the entrance of the cave. Tenderly Saul frees himself from the embrace of Michal and Loruhamah. He goes towards the steps, ascends, pauses and''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|—51—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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: Yield him the crown—yea, place it on his brows, 
: That song and youth’s sweet laughter stir again
: Throughout this stricken land, and all the world
: Grow glorious and golden in the sun!
::: (''Saul bends over Loruhamah, takes her hands and lifts her to his side''.)
: My Loruhamah, one fair city waits
: Our coming—fairer than far Babylon—
: Builded beyond the clouds! I go to lay
: Its streets with sapphires and adorn the walls
: With chrysoprase—make every gate a pearl,
: A moon of summer magic, musical
: At turning of each graven silver hinge,
: Melodious as filmy waterfalls!
::: (''He turns to Michal who rises at his word to he enfolded with Loruhamah in his arms''.)
: Michal, arise! The time for tears is past.
: Not on this star shall all the tale be told
: Of Saul and Loruhamah and their love.}}
:: (''There is a sudden and nearing blast of trumpets with a mighty shout of voices. The full, red disk, of the sun almost fills the entrance of the cave. Tenderly Saul frees himself from the embrace of Michal and Loruhamah. He goes towards the steps, ascends, pauses and''
|end=follow}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|—51—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1182" sha1="luek76t4e56p9vragi10etk2af1tk31" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{c|ANTHOLOGY}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|style=margin-left:0; width:100%;|start=follow|
: Yield him the crown—yea, place it on his brows, 
: That song and youth’s sweet laughter stir again
: Throughout this stricken land, and all the world
: Grow glorious and golden in the sun!
::: (''Saul bends over Loruhamah, takes her hands and lifts her to his side''.)
: My Loruhamah, one fair city waits
: Our coming—fairer than far Babylon—
: Builded beyond the clouds! I go to lay
: Its streets with sapphires and adorn the walls
: With chrysoprase—make every gate a pearl,
: A moon of summer magic, musical
: At turning of each graven silver hinge,
: Melodious as filmy waterfalls!
::: (''He turns to Michal who rises at his word to he enfolded with Loruhamah in his arms''.)
: Michal, arise! The time for tears is past.
: Not on this star shall all the tale be told
: Of Saul and Loruhamah and their love.}}
:: (''There is a sudden and nearing blast of trumpets with a mighty shout of voices. The full, red disk, of the sun almost fills the entrance of the cave. Tenderly Saul frees himself from the embrace of Michal and Loruhamah. He goes towards the steps, ascends, pauses and''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|—51—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1183" sha1="2f4bricmlirazwdxjgi0ckuhxvhhh2e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{c|ANTHOLOGY}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|style=margin-left:0; width:100%;|start=follow|
: Yield him the crown—yea, place it on his brows, 
: That song and youth’s sweet laughter stir again
: Throughout this stricken land, and all the world
: Grow glorious and golden in the sun!
::: (''Saul bends over Loruhamah, takes her hands and lifts her to his side''.)
: My Loruhamah, one fair city waits
: Our coming—fairer than far Babylon—
: Builded beyond the clouds! I go to lay
: Its streets with sapphires and adorn the walls
: With chrysoprase—make every gate a pearl,
: A moon of summer magic, musical
: At turning of each graven silver hinge,
: Melodious as filmy waterfalls!
::: (''He turns to Michal who rises at his word to he enfolded with Loruhamah in his arms''.)
: Michal, arise! The time for tears is past.
: Not on this star shall all the tale be told
: Of Saul and Loruhamah and their love.}}
:: (''There is a sudden and nearing blast of trumpets with a mighty shout of voices. The full, red disk, of the sun almost fills the entrance of the cave. Tenderly Saul frees himself from the embrace of Michal and Loruhamah. He goes towards the steps, ascends, pauses and''&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{c|—51—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The mayor of Casterbridge (1886 Volume 1).pdf/42</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847299</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131531</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:20:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
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      <text bytes="1189" sha1="qfljjc8zvsdsyoode43zlf89jagnwbq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|30|{{asc|THE MAYOR OF CASTERBRIDGE.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;landscape as he walked, and at the distance of three or four miles perceived the roofs of a village and the tower of a church. He instantly made towards the latter object. The village was quite still, it being that motionless hour of rustic daily life which fills the interval between the departure of the field labourers to their work, and the rising of their wives and daughters to prepare the breakfast for their return. Hence he reached the church without observation, and the door being only latched he entered. The hay-trusser deposited his basket by the font, went up the nave till he reached the altar-rails, and opening the gate entered the sacrarium, where he seemed to feel a sense of the strangeness for a moment, then knelt upon the foot-pace. Dropping his head upon the clamped book which lay on the Communion table, he said aloud:

&quot;I, Michael Henchard, on this morning of the sixteenth of September, do take an oath here in this solemn place that I will avoid all strong liquors for the space of twenty years to come, being a year for every year that I have lived. And this I swear upon the Book before me; and may I be stricken&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/233</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847300</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131532</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:20:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131532</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1043" sha1="nkgtzy2qd9u2e45vjs3cqhao87phe2o" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|201|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;fly out of my bed during the night, and scramble into my mother's room, and remain there till morning's light dispelled the terrors of darkness.

One evening, when my mother, my sister and myself were quietly sitting in the porch of the cottage, enjoying the coolness of the night breeze, suddenly we heard a noise, and turning round beheld a figure in white{{mdash}}how I screamed. We were then greeted with a low gruff laugh, which my mother instantly know to be the emperor's. She turned the white covering, and underneath appeared the black visage of a little servant of ours, whom Napoleon had instigated to frighten Miss Betsee, while he was himself a spectator of the effect of his trick. This pleasantry of Napoleon's gave rise soon after to a ghost scene, which was enacted to the life by one of our runaway slaves, of the name of Alley; he had been missing for many weeks, and had eluded all search. Pigs, poultry, bread, all the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/232</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847301</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131533</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:21:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131533</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1035" sha1="dodpizn8apteejnguxe6sofegr8cvtz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|200|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;with this old man upon the folly of his ravings was useless; he still persisted in it, and it soon became evident that old Huff was mad, and, though strictly watched, he found an opportunity one fatal morning to destroy himself. An inquest was held on him, ''felo de se'' returned as verdict, (for there was much method evinced in his madness,) and his body was ordered to be interred in the spot where three cross roads met. The nearest to the scene where the act was committed was the road leading to the Briars, and there they buried the old man.

I had amongst many other follies a terror of ghosts, and this weakness was well known to the emperor, who, for a considerable time after the suicide of poor Huff, used to frighten me nearly into fits. Every night, just before my hour of retiring to my room, he would call out, &quot;Miss Betsee, ole Huff; ole Huff:&quot; The misery of those nights I shall never forget; I used generally to&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/231</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847302</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131535</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:22:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <text bytes="1066" sha1="oc83pi3aecf4sea5meugx8zod40a76h" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|199|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;cut, missed his footing, and was precipitated over the ledge, falling from a height of at least one hundred feet. We were all in a state of the most painful excitement during the ceremony of the coroner's inquest which was held on the dead man. I recollect Napoleon did not lose that occasion of hinting to my father, that if the poor soldier had sat less time after dinner he probably would not have met with so dreadful a fate.

About that time there was quite a chapter of tragical accidents, one of which has flashed on my mind. My young brother had a kind of tutor, ''faute de mieux'', a curious character, whose name was Huff; he had been an inhabitant of the island I believe at that time nearly half a century. This old man, since the arrival of Napoleon, had taken many strange fancies into his brain; among others, that he was destined to restore the fallen hero to his pristine glory, and that he could at any time free him from thraldom. All argument&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The mayor of Casterbridge (1886 Volume 1).pdf/43</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847303</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131537</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:23:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1146" sha1="ctgiuheypncc5xlmar0le2q06e3k19e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|31|{{asc|THE MAYOR OF CASTERBRIDGE.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;dumb, blind, and helpless if I break this my oath.&quot;

When he had said it and kissed the big book, the hay-trusser arose, and seemed relieved at having made a start in a new direction. While standing in the porch a moment, he saw a thick jet of wood-smoke suddenly start up from the red chimney of a cottage near, and knew that the occupant had just lit her fire. He went round to the door, and the housewife agreed to prepare him some breakfast for a trifling payment, which was done. Then he started on the search for his wife and child.

The tantalizing nature of the undertaking became apparent soon enough. Though he examined and inquired, and walked hither and thither day after day, no such characters as those he described had anywhere been seen since the evening of the fair. To add to the difficulty he could gain no sound of the sailor's name. As money was short with him he decided, after some hesitation, to spend the sailor's money in the prosecution of this search; but it was equally in vain. The truth was that a certain shyness of revealing his conduct prevented Michael Henchard from&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu/60</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847304</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131538</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:23:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
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      <text bytes="1155" sha1="89fxfe1olmno0q0ekmfvsiasjojkrym" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{c|ROBERT NORWOOD}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;::&lt;/noinclude&gt;''with arms wide open, looks down at them. Michal turns from Loruhamah and runs to the steps, looking up at Saul. Loruhamah stands as Saul left her, looking away from him with hopeless sorrow in her eyes''.)
{{ppoem|style=margin-left:0; width:100%;|
Michal—My father! O my father! Do not go!
Voices—Saul!
Loruhamah—(''as Saul turns at the sound of the voices and leaves the cave''.)
{{em|7}}Ashtoreth!
Michal— {{em|6}}My Father!
Voices— {{em|9}}Saul! Saul! Saul!
::: (''Michal sins weeping at the foot of the steps. Loruhamah comes slowly down to the front with uplifted arms of defiance to the gods''.)
Loruhamah—Again you gods of darkness and of hate—
: You thrones and crowns of everlastingness;
: You high above the multitude of stars,
: Immovable, hard and unchanging gods!
: Again you laugh and nod upon our pain
: And stare down gulfs perpetual of blue,
: Divinely lifted, deathlessly remote!
: No more shall you hear aught of stricken me—
: I go upon my way, supreme in love,
: And answer back to your indifference
: Eternal calling of my heart for Saul!}}
{{dhr}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|—52—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/230</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847305</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131539</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:24:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <text bytes="1071" sha1="92tax9pfousjig26mug74lk5c9iouu7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|198|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;his little spy-glass, the same with which he viewed the battle of Waterloo. We asked him what he thought it could be; he looked grave, and replied, we had better return to the house and remain there for a time, as we might probably be shocked at a scene which he doubted not would soon present itself. He had discovered, by the aid of his glass, that the object which had raised our curiosity, was the corpse of a soldier, who must have met his death by some dreadful accident; his conjecture was soon ascertained to be too true. A soldier had obtained leave of absence the night before for a few hours, and was to have been back by sunset. He outstayed his leave, beguiling time with some old comrades, and had perhaps indulged too freely at the shrine of Bacchus. But be that as it may, on finding he had exceeded his time, and being well aware of the severe discipline necessarily maintained at this time on the island, he had tried to reach his barrack by a short&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The mayor of Casterbridge (1886 Volume 1).pdf/44</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131540</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:24:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
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      <text bytes="882" sha1="3fcctzjvzi5k96f24dl28pzaroexdoh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|32|{{asc|THE MAYOR OF CASTERBRIDGE.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;following up the investigation with the loud hue-and-cry such a pursuit demanded to render it effectual; and it was probably for this reason that he obtained no clue, though everything was done by him that did not involve an explanation of the circumstances under which he had lost her.

Weeks counted up to months and still he searched on, maintaining himself by small jobs of work in the intervals. By this time he had arrived at a western seaport, and there he derived intelligence that persons answering somewhat to his description had emigrated a little time before. Then he said he would search no longer, and that he would go and settle in the district which he had had for some time in his mind. Next day he started, journeying southward, and did not pause till he reached the town of Casterbridge, more than a hundred miles off.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/229</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847307</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131541</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:25:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
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      <text bytes="1095" sha1="cnrb8dswd3lsgi2qx6jonnx2km7hd9x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|197|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;kept jumping on him with his wet paws, thereby adding mud to wet and dust.

One morning as we were walking, or rather scrambling, among the rocks that close in the waterfall near the Briars, we espied something hanging over the ledge of a rock above us which had the appearance of a soldier in his uniform: the height was so great, and the precipice so perpendicular, that it was an utter impossibility for us to attempt scaling it to ascertain what it could be; but still it looked so strange, and the position of the man (if man it were) so perilous, that we determined on returning to the cottage to send forth some one of bolder heart and steadier nerves than our party possessed, who might throw a light upon the mysterious occupant of the rocky ledge.
On our way, we encountered Count Las Cases and the emperor, whose curiosity had also been directed to the object which had excited our attention; he had seen it from his pavilion, and was {{SIC|reconnoitring|reconnoitering}}  it with&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu/61</title>
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      <id>15131542</id>
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      <text bytes="1379" sha1="envzmcn9b3uvjfnc3d50dxvr2wmxsuo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||MAKAR'S DREAM|37}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;spected them to make sure they were not false. They proved to be correct; the bowls hung motionless, without movement up or down.

To tell the truth, he did not exactly understand their mechanism, and would have preferred to have done business with the simple balances by whose aid he had learned to buy and sell with great profit to himself during the course of his long life.

&quot;The Toyon is coming!&quot; cried Father Ivan suddenly, and hastily began to pull his cassock straight.

The central door opened and in came an ancient, venerable Toyon, his long silvery beard hanging below his waist. He was dressed in rich furs and tissues unknown to Makar, and on his feet he wore warm velvet-lined boots, such as Makar had seen depicted on antique ikons.

Makar recognised him at a glance as the same old greybeard whose picture he had seen in church, only here he was unattended by his son. Makar decided that the latter must have gone out on business. The dove flew into the room, however, and after circling about the old man's head, settled upon his knee. The old Toyon stroked the dove with his hand as he sat on the seat that had been especially prepared for him.

The Toyon's face was kind, and when Makar became too downcast he looked at it and felt better.

His heart was heavy because he was suddenly remembering all his past life down to the smallest&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/228</title>
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    <id>4847309</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131544</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:26:20Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1015" sha1="ibzm8ee3u57rpaeod2lpnu0szxlpe0q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|196|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;him whilst this operation was performing, they were sure to have their clothes completely saturated. Such was now the case; for Pipes enjoyed his bath immensely, and dived and ducked about, much to the consternation of the gold and silver fish. When he thought he had had enough, he scrambled up the bank, took his place by the emperor's side, who was so much absorbed by his employment as to be unaware of the shower bath in store for him, and it was not until a vigorous shake of the dog, and a plentiful besprinkling all over dress and person, that he found out the mischief of which I had been the cause. The paper on which he had written was spoiled, and he presented a very deplorable figure himself. It was impossible to help laughing, although he was very angry, for Tom Pipes would not go away; he had been a shipmate of Napoleon's on board the Northumberland, and was so glad to see him again, that he&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu/62</title>
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      <id>15131546</id>
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      <text bytes="1159" sha1="0nnwjk7v9od7i3z1qxq92tt7gdf39j5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|38|MAKAR'S DREAM|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;detail; he remembered every step he had taken, every blow of his axe, every tree he had felled, every deceit he had practiced, every glass of vodka he had drunk.

He grew frightened and ashamed, but he took heart as he looked at the face of the old Toyon.

And as he took heart it occurred to him that there might be some things he could manage to conceal.

The old Toyon looked searchingly at him and asked him who he was and whence he had come, what his name was and what his age might be.

When Makar had replied to his questions, the old Toyon asked:

&quot;What have you done in your life?&quot;

&quot;You know that yourself,&quot; answered Makar. &quot;Surely it is written in your book!&quot;

Makar wanted to test the Toyon and find out whether everything was really inscribed there or no.

&quot;Tell me yourself,&quot; answered the old Toyon.

Makar took courage.

He began enumerating all his works, and although he remembered every blow he had struck with his axe, every pole he had cut, and every furrow he had ploughed, he added to his reckoning thousands of poles and hundreds of loads of wood and hundreds of logs and hundreds of pounds of sown seed.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>The Mayor of Casterbridge (Hardy, 1886)/Volume 1/Chapter 2</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title      = [[../../|The Mayor of Casterbridge]]  | author     = Thomas Hardy  | translator =   | section    = Chapter II.  | previous   =   | next       = [[../Chapter 1|Volume I, Chapter I.]]  | notes      = [[../Chapter 3|Volume I, Chapter III.]] }} &lt;pages index=&quot;The mayor of Casterbridge (1886 Volume 1).pdf&quot; include=37-44 /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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 | section    = Chapter II.
 | previous   = 
 | next       = [[../Chapter 1|Volume I, Chapter I.]]
 | notes      = [[../Chapter 3|Volume I, Chapter III.]]
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 | title      = [[../../|The Mayor of Casterbridge]]
 | author     = Thomas Hardy
 | translator = 
 | section    = Chapter II.
 | previous   = [[../Chapter 1|Volume I, Chapter I.]]
 | next       = [[../Chapter 3|Volume I, Chapter III.]]
 | notes      = 
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/227</title>
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      <id>15131549</id>
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      <text bytes="1041" sha1="e60fuiv1c0tlqe7623mlujhwwbky7do" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|195|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVII.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;upon dancing, dress, &amp;c. The first attempt at waltzing was made on that occasion in the Saraband, and he took off a certain young lady's graceless movements so inimitably, that we felt sure he had indulged. himself with a peep.

Sir G. Cockburn had a beautiful dog of the Newfoundland breed, which was a great favourite, both from its beauty and docility. It was very fond of accompanying its noble master whenever he honoured the Briars with a visit, for the place abounded with ponds and rivulets, in which Tom Pipes delighted to swim and cool himself after following at the horses' heels up the mountain, under a sultry tropical sun. One time, as Napoleon was engaged making notes in the garden of the Briars, close to a large pond full of gold and silver fish, I called the dog to have a gambol and refresh himself with a bath, well knowing his custom was to shake his huge sides after ducking, and then woe betide the person nearest&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu/63</title>
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      <text bytes="1227" sha1="86hyb56cstmj3fjr2n6cv0drbynk41q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||MAKAR'S DREAM|39}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;When all had been told, the old Toyon turned to Father Ivan and said:

&quot;Bring hither the book.&quot;

Makar saw from this that Father Ivan was secretary to the Toyon, and was annoyed that the other had given him no friendly hint of the fact.

Father Ivan brought the great book, opened it, and began to read.

&quot;Just look and see how many poles are inscribed there,&quot; said the old Toyon.

Father Ivan looked and answered sorrowfully:

&quot;He added a round three thousand to his reckoning.&quot;

&quot;It's a lie!&quot; shouted Makar vehemently. &quot;He must be wrong because he was a drunkard and died a wicked death!&quot;

&quot;Be quiet!&quot; commanded the Toyon. &quot;Did he charge you more than was fair for christenings and weddings? Did he ever press you for tithes?&quot;

&quot;Why waste words?&quot; answered Makar.

&quot;You see,&quot; the Toyon said, &quot;I know without assistance from you that he was fond of drink{{longdash}}&quot;

And the old Toyon lost his temper. &quot;Read his sins from the book now; he is a cheat, and I can't believe his words!&quot; he cried to Father Ivan.

Meanwhile the servants were heaping into the golden bowl all Makar's poles, and his wood, and his ploughing, and all his work. And there proved to be so much that the golden bowl sank, and the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena/Chapter 17</title>
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      <comment>transclude chapter</comment>
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 | title       = Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena
 | author      = Lucia Elizabeth Balcombe Abell
 | section     = Chapter XVII
 | previous    = [[../Chapter 16|Chapter XVI]]
 | next        = [[../Chapter 18|Chapter XVIII]]
 | year        = 1844
 | notes       = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; from=226 to=239 /&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/183</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847315</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131557</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:31:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <text bytes="1040" sha1="lnsfjqr1sas56m3ti5rpmdagvnz9rsk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|153|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;midshipmen who conducted the fatigue parties at Longwood. On one occasion a remarkably handsome and high-born young reefer attracted his notice, from the activity he displayed in setting his men to work in erecting a commodious marquee out of a studding-sail. He inquired his name, and when he heard it was the Honourable G. C., be remarked that he was one of the very few instances in which he had observed high birth combined with so much amiability and intelligence. We told the emperor we had the pleasure of being acquainted with the young middy he so much admired, and that he was the most popular of any of his young companions in the ward-room. I related to the emperor our first introduction to him, which was on our return from the admiral's ball, when we saw him elevated in a cart, surrounded by his brother middies, shouting at the top of his voice, &quot;Lord W.'s carriage stops the way;&quot; and true enough the way was stopped, as&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/184</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131558</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:32:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1046" sha1="1vmidqbafvq9d5c4520rf5275c8asq3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|154|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the cart had been dragged by some of these wild boys within the arch of the castle, through which we had all to pass on our road homeward. The next time we heard of him our sympathies were excited by hearing he had narrowly escaped being drowned, and afterwards being very nearly shot, when rowing guard one night. The surf was dangerously high, compelling his boat to keep off shore, and when hailed by the sentry, the roaring of the sea against the iron-girt rocks, prevented the countersign from being heard; the guard then fired in amongst the crew, but our gallant young friend most providentially escaped with his life.

We concluded our history of the middy by telling Napoleon, that his talent was equally distinguished in performing his duties either on sea or land, and that Sir Pultency Malcolm had made a farmer of him, entrusting to his management the superintendence and cultivation of one of the government farms. The admiral de-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:FM 4-25.11 (FM 21-11) First Aid (Change 1).pdf/18</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131559</id>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{anchor+|1.6.b.|''b.''}} To evaluate a casualty, perform the following steps:  {{anchor+|1.6.b.1|(1)}} ''Check the casualty for responsiveness.'' This is done by gently shaking or tapping him while calmly asking, &quot;Are you OK?&quot; Watch for a response. If the casualty does not respond, go to step (2). If the casualty responds, continue with the evaluation.  {{anchor+|1.6.b.1.a|(''a'')}} If the casualty is conscious, ask him where he feels different than usu...</comment>
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      <text bytes="2079" sha1="qxoprno36dkjflbndx4mlh51p1641wk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;{{rh/1|FM 4-25.11/NTRP 4-02.1/AFMAN 44-163(I)|class=__pageright}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{anchor+|1.6.b.|''b.''}} To evaluate a casualty, perform the following steps:

{{anchor+|1.6.b.1|(1)}} ''Check the casualty for responsiveness.'' This is done by gently shaking or tapping him while calmly asking, &quot;Are you OK?&quot; Watch for a response. If the casualty does not respond, go to step (2). If the casualty responds, continue with the evaluation.

{{anchor+|1.6.b.1.a|(''a'')}} If the casualty is conscious, ask him where he feels different than usual or where it hurts. Ask him to identify the location of pain if he can, or to identify the area in which there is no feeling.

{{anchor+|1.6.b.1.b|(''b'')}} If the casualty is conscious but is choking and cannot talk, stop the evaluation and begin first aid measures. Refer to paragraphs 2-10 and 2-11 for specific information on opening the airway.

{{box|{{c|WARNING}}

'''If a broken back or neck is suspected, do not move the casualty unless his life is in immediate danger (such as close to a burning vehicle). Movement may cause permanent paralysis or death.'''}}

{{anchor+|1.6.b.2|(2)}} ''Check for breathing.'' (Refer to paragraph 2-6 for this procedure.)

{{anchor+|1.6.b.2.a|(''a'')}} If the casualty is breathing, proceed to step (3).

{{anchor+|1.6.b.2.b|('''b''}} If the casualty is not breathing, stop the evaluation and begin first aid measures to attempt to ventilate the casualty. Attempt to open the airway, if an airway obstruction is apparent, clear the airway obstruction, then ventilate (see paragraphs 2-10 and 2-11).

{{anchor+|1.6.b.2.c|(''c'')}} After successfully ventilating the casualty, proceed to step (3).

{{anchor+|1.6.b.3|(3)}} Check for pulse. (Refer to paragraph 1-3c(2) for specific methods.) If a pulse is present and the casualty is breathing, proceed to step (4).

{{anchor+|1.6.b.3.a|(''a'')}} If a pulse is present, but the casualty is still not breathing, start rescue breathing.

{{anchor+|1.6.b.3.b|(''b'')}} If a pulse is not present, seek medical personnel for help.
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/185</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131560</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:33:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1042" sha1="ggpkmvutyb66p4bj981ljrtca5wcsqs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|155|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;clared he had never before seen such vegetables produced on the sterile rock of St. Helena. Napoleon's concluding remark was, that &quot;Whatever British sailors took in hand, they never left undone.&quot;

When we were visiting Madame Bertrand's, we always passed our Sundays as if at home, reading the lessons for the day and observing the prayers, &amp;c. One Sunday morning, Napoleon came bustling in. and seeing me very earnestly employed reading aloud to my sister, asked what I was so intently engaged upon, and why I looked so much graver than usual. I told him I was learning to repeat the collect for the day, and that if I failed in saying it, my father would be very angry. I remarked, &quot;I suppose ''you'' never learnt a collect or any thing religious, for I am told you disbelieve the existence of a God.&quot; He seemed displeased at my observation, and answered, &quot;You have been told an untruth; when you are wiser you will understand that no one&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/186</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847319</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131561</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:35:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1065" sha1="6giwn6bmfkypoitofhrpgj09l3v6mfu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|156|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;could doubt the existence of a God.&quot; My mother asked him if he was a predestinarian, as reported. He admitted the truth of the accusation, saying, &quot;I believe that whatever a man's destiny calls upon him to do, that he must fulfil.&quot;

Dr. O'Meara often amused us by recounting conversations he had with the emperor respecting priestcraft: one anecdote is impressed on my recollection from the amusement it afforded. A poor erring monk having paid the debt of nature, a funeral oration was delivered by a brother priest, to a large assembled congregation. The holy father proceeded to inform the multitude that the soul of the departed had had to appear before the judgment-seat, there to render an account of all its past actions; that being done, the evil and the good were then separated and thrown into opposite scales, in order to see which preponderated. The good deeds were so few, that the scale flew up, and the poor soul was condemned to the regions below.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/187</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847320</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131562</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:36:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="1058" sha1="f90phxc20ojqs6kar5mno7mu23p34yl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|157|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and conducted by devils to Eblis' dread abode, there to be tormented with &quot;fire unquenched, unquenchable{{mdash}}around, within his form to dwell.&quot; The flame had reached his feet and legs, and was proceeding to envelope his wretched body, when he, sinking into the bottomless pit with but his head above the liquid fire, cried out, &quot;Oh! my patron saint, save me! take compassion on me, and throw into the scale of my good deeds all the lime and stone that I gave to repair the convent.&quot; His saint listened to the supplications of the tortured one, and gathering all the materials the monk had collected to build and adorn his monastery, did as he desired, and threw them into the scale of good, which immediately had the effect of overbalancing the evil, and the sinner's soul was taken to Paradise that moment. The moral meant to be conveyed was, how useful to that poor sinner's eternal salvation was his having kept his convent in repair; for had he not&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/188</title>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1022" sha1="15ec9dg1awb7tkolc8l8y47occ400mf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|158|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;bestowed all that lime and stone, his soul would have been to this day consuming in the fires prepared for the Devil and his angels.

Billiards was a game much played by Napoleon and his suite. I had the honour of being instructed in its mysteries by him; but when tired of my lesson, my amusement consisted in aiming the balls at his fingers, and I was never more pleased than when I succeeded in making him cry out. One day our pass from Sir Hudson Lowe only specified a visit to General Bertrand, but my anxiety to see Napoleon, caused me to break through the rule laid down, and the consequences of my imprudence were nearly proving very serious, as my father ''all but'' lost the appointment he then held under government. I had caught sight of the emperor in his favourite billiard-room, and not being able to resist having a game with him, I listened to no remonstrance, but bounded off, leaving my father in dis-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1011" sha1="8is4ovqtv3qmcmd2pwlnesuysbvoixw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|159|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;may at the consequences likely to ensue. Instead of my anticipated game of throwing about the balls, I was requested to read a book, by Dr. Warden, the surgeon of the &quot;Northumberland,&quot; that had just come out. It was in English, and I had the task of wading through several chapters, and making it as intelligible as my ungrammatical French permitted. Napoleon was much pleased with Dr. Warden's book, and said, &quot;his work was a very true one.&quot; I finished reading it to him whilst we remained with Madame Bertrand.

In the cool of the evening we used to have chairs brought out and placed on the lawn leading to the billiard-room, under the gum-wood trees, and the Countesses Bertrand and Montholon, with their husbands and children, my sister and myself, would remain for hours after sunset listening to the thousand crickets with which the ground at Longwood seemed alive. The moonlight nights were remarkably&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/190</title>
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      <text bytes="1067" sha1="q6tew7x9tdluia4xezsdx0t452s7sa8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|160|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;beautiful at St. Helena; the blue of the sky so deep and clear, that it would be difficult to imagine any scene more solemn and imposing than the appearance presented by the landscape on such occasions. Either the stars shine brighter in that firmament, and the moon seems fuller and more lustrous, or it may be that the recollection of those joyous days had no cloud to dim their radiance. It was on one of these splendid starry nights, and at the time we were on a visit to Madame Bertrand, that the party was grouped about, some seated on the steps of the billiard-room, others in the garden enjoying the cool refreshing breeze. The day had been one of the most sultry ever experienced within the recollection of the oldest inhabitant of St. Helena. Suddenly we heard a lumbering heavy noise, as if loaded waggons were rumbling over the ground immediately under us. Those seated near the billiard room sprang up aghast, thinking the house was falling about their&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Mirror of Alchimy (1597, mirrorofalchimy00baco).djvu/40</title>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;decessors haue made mention of in their bookes: and againe, I haue touched some things which they concealed, &amp; would by no meanes open &amp; discouer: yea, I haue expounded and laide open certain things, that they haue hidden vnder dark &amp; figuratiue speeches. And this my book I haue called the Secrets of Alchimy: in which I haue spo­ken of whatsoeuer is necessarie, to him that is studious of this Art or masterie, in a language befitting his sence &amp; vnderstan...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1700" sha1="awf223fv74o7ii0dfphuy3udbbdzpb0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{running header|30|''The Preface''.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;decessors haue made mention of in their bookes: and againe, I haue touched some things which they concealed, &amp; would by no meanes open &amp; discouer: yea, I haue expounded and laide open certain things, that they haue hidden vnder dark &amp; figuratiue speeches. And this my book I haue called the Secrets of Alchimy: in which I haue spo­ken of whatsoeuer is necessarie, to him that is studious of this Art or masterie, in a language befitting his sence &amp; vnderstanding. And I haue named foure masteries far greater and better, thē other Philosophers haue done: of which num­ber is Elixir, one Mineral, the other Animall: but the other two are minerals, and not the one Elix­ir: whose office is to washe that, which they call the bodies: and another is to make gold of Azot­viue, whose composition or generatiō, is accor­ding to the generationor order of generation in the mynes, being in the heart and bowels of the earth. And these foure masteries or works, the Philosophers haue declared in their bookes of the composition of this mastery: but they want much: neyther would they shew the operation of it in their bookes: and though by chaunce he found it out, yet could hee not vnderstand it: so that hee found out nothing that was more trou­blesome to him. I wil therefore in this my booke declare it, together with the maner how to make it: but let him that will reade it, first learne Geo­metry, and her measures, that so he may rightly frame his furnaces, not passing a meane, either by excesse or defect: and withall, he must know the quantitie of his fire, and the forme of the vessell fit for his worke. Moreouer, lette him consider&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|what}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Mirror of Alchimy (1597, mirrorofalchimy00baco).djvu/41</title>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;what is the ground-worke and beginning of the mastery, beeing to it, as the matrice is to liuing creatures, which are fashioned in the wombe, and therin receiue their creatiō &amp; nourishment: for if the thing of this mastery finde not that which is conuenient for it, the worke is marred, and the workmen shall not find that which they looke for, neither shal the thing it self be brought to the effect of generation: for where one cannot meete with the cause...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1698" sha1="tlkog8hhuvi3ihnsc6b67k8qn6jm6wg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{running header||''The Preface.''|31}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;what is the ground-worke and beginning of the mastery, beeing to it, as the matrice is to liuing creatures, which are fashioned in the wombe, and therin receiue their creatiō &amp; nourishment: for if the thing of this mastery finde not that which is conuenient for it, the worke is marred, and the workmen shall not find that which they looke for, neither shal the thing it self be brought to the effect of generation: for where one cannot meete with the cause of generation, or the roote, and heate it selfe, it will fall out, that the labour shall be lost, and the worke nought worth. The like mischiefe will happen in respect of weight, which if it be not aright in the compound, the partes of the same nature, passing their boundes by augmentation, or diminution, the propertie of the compound is destroyed, &amp; the effect ther­of voyd and without fruit, whereof I will giue you an example. Doo not you see that in Sope (with which cloathes are washed cleane and made white) there is this property if it be rightly made, by reason of equalitie, &amp; one proportion, which participate in length and breadth? wher­upon through this participation they agree, and then it appeareth, because it was truely made, and so the vertue which before lay hid, is nowe made known, which they cal a property, being the vertue of washing engendred in the com­pound: but when the grauity of the compound passeth his bounds, either by addition or diminu­tion, ye vertue it self breaketh the limits of equali­ty, &amp; becōmeth contrary, according to ye distēpe­rāce of the cōpound. And this thou must vnder­stād to happen in the cōposition of our mastery.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|Of}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/197</title>
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      <text bytes="998" sha1="9dy1wgs7tvbd3tmm1595tvywy1pxzey" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|167|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;kind of romantic interest, as one who had been cruelly wronged in his youthful career. After these early risings, he generally fasted until eleven, when he would breakfast ''à la fourchette'' with his suite; he usually ate very fast, but did not admire highly seasoned dishes. He preferred a roasted leg of mutton to any other English joint, and I have often seen him take the knuckle in his hand and pare off all the brown part of it.

Napoleon had some very beautiful seals and rare coins, from which he good-naturedly employed himself in taking off impressions in sealing-wax. Whilst he was thus engaged, I once mischievously jogged his elbow, and caused him to drop the hot wax on his fingers. It was very painful, and raised a large blister; but he was so very good-natured about it, that I told him I was quite sorry for what I had done; whereas, had he been cross, I should have rejoiced.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Mirror of Alchimy (1597, mirrorofalchimy00baco).djvu/42</title>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;CHAP I. Of the foure Masteries, or principall works of the Art, to wit, solution, congelation, albification, and rubification.  NOw begin I to speake of the great worke which they call Alchimy, wherein I will confirme my woordes, without concealing ought, or keeping backe any thing, saue that which is not conuenient to bee vttered or named. We say then that the great work con­taineth in it foure masteries (as the Philosophers before vs haue affirmed) tha...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1438" sha1="377167n80wlfujkf5fnbmyn71yj5k5m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{running header|32|''The Preface''.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;CHAP I. Of the foure Masteries, or principall works of the Art, to wit, solution, congelation, albification, and rubification.

NOw begin I to speake of the great worke which they call Alchimy, wherein I will confirme my woordes, without concealing ought, or keeping backe any thing, saue that which is not conuenient to bee vttered or named. We say then that the great work con­taineth in it foure masteries (as the Philosophers before vs haue affirmed) that is to say, to dissolue, to congeale, to make white and red. And these foure quantities are partakers, whereof two of them are partakers betweene themselues, and so likewise are the other two. And either of these double quātities hath another quantity partaker, which is a greater quantity partaker after these two. I vnderstand by these quantities, the quanti­tie of the natures, and weight of the medicines which are orderly dissolued and congealed, wherin neither addition nor diminution haue a­ny place. But these two, to wit, solution and con­gelation, shalbe in one operation, and shall make but one worke, and that before composition: but after composition, their works shall bee diuers. And this solution and congelation which wee haue spoken of, are the solution of the bodie, and the congelation of the Spirite, and they are two, yet haue but one operation. For the Spirites are not congealed, except the bo-&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|dies}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/52</title>
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      <text bytes="2408" sha1="tvz9z1p5it8x4tom0hvltjazrlc3u68" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|36|{{sc|suetonius.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;had an elegant, splendid, noble, and magnificent vein of eloquence.&quot; And in a letter to Cornelius Nepos, he writes of him in the following terms: &quot;What! Of all the orators, who, during the whole course of their lives, have done nothing else, which can you prefer to him? Which of them is more pointed or terse in his periods, or employs more polished and elegant language?&quot; In his youth, he seems to have chosen Strabo Cæsar for his model; from whose oration in behalf of the Sardinians he has transcribed some passages literally into his Divination. In his delivery he is said to have had a shrill voice, and his action was animated, but not ungraceful. He has left behind him some speeches, among which are ranked a few that are not genuine, such as that on behalf of Quintus Metellus. These Augustus supposes, with reason, to be rather the production of blundering short-hand writers, who were not able to keep pace with him in the delivery, than publications of his own. For I find in some copies that the title is not &quot;For Metellus,&quot; but &quot;What he wrote to Metellus:&quot; whereas the speech is delivered in the name of Cæsar, vindicating Metellus and himself from the aspersions cast upon them by their common defamers. The speech addressed &quot;To his soldiers in Spain,&quot; Augustus considers likewise as spurious. We meet with two under this title; one made, as is pretended, in the first battle, and the other in the last; at which time, Asinius Pollio says, he had not leisure to address the soldiers, on account of the suddenness of the enemy's attack.

LVI. He has likewise left Commentaries of his own actions both in the war in Gaul, and in the civil war with Pompey; for the author of the Alexandrian, African, and Spanish wars is not known with any certainty. Some think they are the production of Oppius, and some of Hirtius; the latter of whom composed the last book, which is imperfect, of the Gallic war. Of Cæsar's Commentaries, Cicero, in his Brutus, speaks thus: &quot;He wrote his Commentaries in a manner deserving of great approbation: they are plain, precise, and elegant, without any affectation of rhetorical ornament. In having thus prepared materials for others who might be inclined to write his history, he may perhaps have encouraged some silly creatures to enter upon such a work, who will needs be dressing up his actions in all the extravagance&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2412" sha1="pm6oklomtg4d16t1arn60h0mg4l54o5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|36|{{sc|suetonius.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;had an elegant, splendid, noble, and magnificent vein of eloquence.&quot; And in a letter to Cornelius Nepos, he writes of him in the following terms: &quot;What! Of all the orators, who, during the whole course of their lives, have done nothing else, which can you prefer to him? Which of them is more pointed or terse in his periods, or employs more polished and elegant language?&quot; In his youth, he seems to have chosen Strabo Cæsar for his model; from whose oration in behalf of the Sardinians he has transcribed some passages literally into his Divination. In his delivery he is said to have had a shrill voice, and his action was animated, but not ungraceful. He has left behind him some speeches, among which are ranked a few that are not genuine, such as that on behalf of Quintus Metellus. These Augustus supposes, with reason, to be rather the production of blundering short-hand writers, who were not able to keep pace with him in the delivery, than publications of his own. For I find in some copies that the title is not &quot;For Metellus,&quot; but &quot;What he wrote to Metellus:&quot; whereas the speech is delivered in the name of Cæsar, vindicating Metellus and himself from the aspersions cast upon them by their common defamers. The speech addressed &quot;To his soldiers in Spain,&quot; Augustus considers likewise as spurious. We meet with two under this title; one made, as is pretended, in the first battle, and the other in the last; at which time, Asinius Pollio says, he had not leisure to address the soldiers, on account of the suddenness of the enemy's attack.

LVI. He has likewise left Commentaries of his own actions both in the war in Gaul, and in the civil war with Pompey; for the author of the Alexandrian, African, and Spanish wars is not known with any certainty. Some think they are the production of Oppius, and some of Hirtius; the latter of whom composed the last book, which is imperfect, of the Gallic war. Of Cæsar's Commentaries, Cicero, in his Brutus, speaks thus: &quot;He wrote his Commentaries in a manner deserving of great approbation: they are plain, precise, and elegant, without any affectation of rhetorical ornament. In having thus prepared materials for others who might be inclined to write his history, he may perhaps have encouraged some silly creatures to enter upon such a work, who will needs be dressing up his actions in all the extravagance and&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Dictionary of the Foochow Dialect.pdf/1828</title>
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    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/168</title>
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{{dropcap|I}}{{uc|f}} she had only answered the letter, then, that very moment!

But she had said to her impulse: &quot;No, I must wait. I can't let him off too easily.&quot; Perhaps, too, there was a little sense of satisfaction at having him again at her knees, suing for her favors, but this was secondary. Joanna was really sick at heart to think that her beautiful dreams of success for both of them might not be realized. She wanted to be great herself, but she did not want that greatness to overshadow Peter.

Somehow the week slipped by, quickly enough, too. There was always plenty to do. Love,—the desire to give it and receive it was tugging persistently at the cords of her being, but she had been too long the slave of Ambition to listen consciously to that. Yet she found herself lying awake nights thinking, thinking, more about Peter than about her singing engagements during the New Year, or about her plan to make her mightiest efforts just now to enter the dancing world. Yet whatever she might ponder by night, she spent all her time and strength by day going to see performances, practicing, inventing new steps and new rhythms.

Through Helena Arnold and indirectly through Vera Sharples she obtained the promise of an interview with one of the season's favorites.

&quot;I'll be able to see you early Thursday evening,&quot; the famous woman wrote. &quot;You may expect either a note or a telephone call from me.&quot; At one time such a promise would have sent&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{fine|162}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/169</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847331</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131582</id>
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      <text bytes="1874" sha1="5l6ci0lqeyqwyhnhrfwp489ebid9p94" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|163|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Joanna into the seventh ecstasy, without impairing her confidence. But recent discouragements, persistent—and for her unusual, phenomena—had rendered her timid. She was nervous. Her assurance wavered. She spent the whole day going through her repertory. Sometimes she danced like a mænad. Then she adopted a slow Greek rhythm, posturing and undulating. She struck attitudes before the mirror, standing in one position for long moments.

&quot;For Heaven's sake,&quot; said Sylvia, putting her head inside the door on one of these occasions, &quot;go out and take a walk, Joanna.&quot; She was as nervous as her sister.

&quot;Not a bad idea, Sylvia, I believe I will. You can answer the phone. Have you seen my brown cape?&quot;

She came back a little after five, refreshed and soothed.

&quot;No phone message,&quot; Sylvia told her, &quot;but here's a note. What's she got to say, Janna?&quot; She came and looked over her sister's arm.

&quot;So sorry not to be able to see you to-night,&quot; the noted ''artiste'' had written. &quot;I'm halfway expecting an old friend of mine and must keep the evening free. I shall try to arrange to have you call, just the same, not this month I'm afraid, but certainly in February.&quot; She ended with a meaningless expression of &quot;good wishes.&quot;

&quot;Mercy,&quot; said Sylvia, &quot;why didn't she say next year?&quot;

Joanna was bitter. &quot;Or next eternity? Sylvia, I wonder if I'm not a darn fool!&quot; She walked upstairs trailing her long brown cape after her.

All her life she had known and seen success. When she was born her father was a successful caterer, almost a wealthy man. It is true that she had seen her own people hindered, checked on account of color, but hardly any of the things she had greatly wanted had been affected for that cause. She had had money enough to have her dancing and music lessons—the very fact that she had had to take separate and special&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/170</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847332</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131583</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:55:26Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1873" sha1="52thf0353ytvlz7cmwm7l6jesgkwh92" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|164|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;lessons from Bertully meant to her that some special and separate way would be arranged whereby she would become a dancer on the stage.

She did not know how to envisage disappointment.

Strangely enough, the defection of the ''artiste'' struck home to her more keenly than the reception which she had had from the stage-managers. She refused Sylvia's invitation to come back downstairs and spend the evening with her and Brian.

&quot;We might go to a movie,&quot; Sylvia had said tentatively. But Joanna had only made an impatient gesture of refusal, and walking into her room had closed the door very carefully after her.

She did not cry or throw herself across the bed. It might have been better for her if she had. Joanna's creed was that one kept a stiff upper lip even to oneself. She had not had many occasions to try out that creed.

There she sat, stiffly, on the spindling chair in front of her small flat-topped writing desk and brooded over the future which suddenly stretched dull, stale, and uninvigorating before her. She would never be able to stand it.

The thought of her marriage flashed across her mind.

&quot;And Peter,&quot; she said to herself aloud, &quot;willing to be ordinary and second-rate! Where is that letter of his? I might just as well answer it now as at any other time.&quot;

In spite of her ugly mood a little wave of tenderness welled up in her heart as she read,—&quot;Just tell me that you do love me still,{{longdash}}&quot;

&quot;Oh, Peter, Peter,&quot; she murmured, &quot;if I tell you that you'll never change, never push on. If only you could be strong and let me bring my troubles to you.&quot;

It would never do to let him know how completely she was discouraged. And equally she could not let him know how dear, weakness and all, he was to her. She would make her love conditional. &quot;If you want me to love you, Peter,{{longdash}}&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/53</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847333</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131585</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:56:45Z</timestamp>
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        <id>3137028</id>
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      <text bytes="2529" sha1="p8cba9gwjdvexi3rg76612txg5zleyu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|julius cæsar.}}|37}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;bombast; but he has discouraged wise men from ever attempting the subject.&quot; Hirtius delivers his opinion of these Commentaries in the following terms: &quot;So great is the approbation with which they are universally perused, that, instead of rousing, he seems to have precluded, the efforts of any future historian. Yet, with respect to this work, we have more reason to admire him than others; for they only know how well and correctly he has written, but we know, likewise, how easily and quickly he did it.&quot; Pollio Asinius thinks that they were not drawn up with much care, or with a due regard to truth; for he insinuates that Cæsar was too hasty of belief in regard to what was performed by others under his orders; and that, he has not given a very faithful account of his own acts, either by design, or through defect of memory; expressing at the same time an opinion that Cæsar intended a new and more correct edition. He has left behind him likewise two books on Analogy, with the same number under the title of Anti-Cato, and a poem entitled The Itinerary. Of these books, he composed the first two in his passage over the Alps, as he was returning to the army after making his circuit in Hither-Gaul; the second work about the time of the battle of Munda; and the last during the four-and-twenty days he employed in his journey from Rome to Farther-Spain. There are extant some letters of his to the senate, written in a manner never practised by any before him; for they are distinguished into pages in the form of a memorandum book; whereas the consuls and commanders till then, used constantly in their letters to continue the line quite across the sheet, without any folding or distinction of pages. There are extant likewise some letters from him to Cicero, and others to his friends, concerning his domestic affairs; in which, if there was occasion for secrecy, he wrote in cyphers; that is, he used the alphabet in such a manner, that not a single word could be made out. The way to decipher those epistles was to substitute the fourth for the first letter as ''d'' for ''a'', and so for the other letters respectively. Some things likewise pass under his name, said to have been written by him when a boy, or a very young man; as the Encomium of Hercules, a tragedy entitled Œdipus, and a collection of Apophthegms; all which Augustus forbad to be published, in a short and plain letter to Pompeius Macer, who was employed by him in the arrangement of his libraries.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;SARAWAK ETHNOGRAPHICAL COLLECTION. {{hws|phragms|diaphragms}} of parchment, secured in the following- manner:—the edge of the parchment is gripped between two strips of split rattan encircling the drum,   these gripping bands are given a halfturn up, a continuous loop of split rattan is laced through holes in the double fold of parchment (formed b}r turning up the gripping bands) and passes to the other end of the drum to be similarly laced through holes...</comment>
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{{hws|phragms|diaphragms}} of parchment, secured in the following- manner:—the edge of the parchment is gripped between two strips of split rattan encircling the drum, 

these gripping bands are given a halfturn up, a continuous loop of split rattan is laced through holes in
the double fold of parchment (formed b}r turning up the gripping
bands) and passes to the other end of the drum to be similarly
laced through holes in the diaphragm there the adjacent limbs
of the loops are braced together by bands of .plaited rattan
(Plate VIII fig. 15).
A small square hole is cut in the side of
the drum to increase the resonance and a string sling passes
through holes above and below this. Height 53 cm.; diam. at one
end 22 cm. diam. at the other 20 cm.
;

;

Catalogue No. 1227.
4.

Malay

[Pd. 29.

Gendang rebana.

1.

031.

(Plate

IV

fig.

II

right hand

specimen.)

Bowl-shaped drum of mirabou wood, the top is closed by
Into the rim
a diaphragm of sheep's skin, the bottom is open.
of the bottom are driven ten square wooden pegs, their free ends
rest on and press against a circle of rattan round which pass
the rattan loops that secure the diaphragm the chief function
of this rattan circle and pegs is to act as an insulator, raising
the drum from the ground and so increasing its resonance. The
diaphragm is secured in the same way as shewn in Plate VII. fig.
1. except that the descending loops of rattan are in ten groups of
four or five loops, any one group being widely separated from
there are ten such groups and
that on either side of it
they correspond with the ten wooden pegs in the bottom rim of
the drum further, the edge of the diaphragm is doubled back to
cover the rattan lacing and this is kept in position by a single
encircling rattan laced through it.
;

;

;

Immediately before use the diaphragm is tightened by
pushing between it and the upper rim of the dram from the
inside a circle of thick unsplit rattan,

the

drum is not

in

use the sidak

Height 18 cm.; diam.
Catalogue No. 124G.

is

known

as the sidak

;

when

kept coiled up inside the drum.

at top, 44*5 cm.; diam. at bottom 24-8 cm.

[Pd. 28. 1. 03].&lt;noinclude&gt;

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these gripping bands are given a halfturn up, a continuous loop of split rattan is laced through holes in
the double fold of parchment (formed b}r turning up the gripping
bands) and passes to the other end of the drum to be similarly
laced through holes in the diaphragm there the adjacent limbs
of the loops are braced together by bands of .plaited rattan
(Plate VIII fig. 15).
A small square hole is cut in the side of
the drum to increase the resonance and a string sling passes
through holes above and below this. Height 53 cm.; diam. at one
end 22 cm. diam. at the other 20 cm.
;

;

Catalogue No. 1227.
4.

Malay

[Pd. 29.

Gendang rebana.

1.

031.

(Plate

IV

fig.

II

right hand

specimen.)

Bowl-shaped drum of mirabou wood, the top is closed by
Into the rim
a diaphragm of sheep's skin, the bottom is open.
of the bottom are driven ten square wooden pegs, their free ends
rest on and press against a circle of rattan round which pass
the rattan loops that secure the diaphragm the chief function
of this rattan circle and pegs is to act as an insulator, raising
the drum from the ground and so increasing its resonance. The
diaphragm is secured in the same way as shewn in Plate VII. fig.
1. except that the descending loops of rattan are in ten groups of
four or five loops, any one group being widely separated from
there are ten such groups and
that on either side of it
they correspond with the ten wooden pegs in the bottom rim of
the drum further, the edge of the diaphragm is doubled back to
cover the rattan lacing and this is kept in position by a single
encircling rattan laced through it.
;

;

;

Immediately before use the diaphragm is tightened by
pushing between it and the upper rim of the dram from the
inside a circle of thick unsplit rattan,

the

drum is not

in

use the sidak

Height 18 cm.; diam.
Catalogue No. 124G.

is

known

as the sidak

;

when

kept coiled up inside the drum.

at top, 44*5 cm.; diam. at bottom 24-8 cm.

[Pd. 28. 1. 03].&lt;noinclude&gt;

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these gripping bands are given a halfturn up, a continuous loop of split rattan is laced through holes in
the double fold of parchment (formed b}r turning up the gripping
bands) and passes to the other end of the drum to be similarly
laced through holes in the diaphragm there the adjacent limbs
of the loops are braced together by bands of .plaited rattan
(Plate VIII fig. 15).
A small square hole is cut in the side of
the drum to increase the resonance and a string sling passes
through holes above and below this. Height 53 cm.; diam. at one
end 22 cm. diam. at the other 20 cm.
;

;

Catalogue No. 1227.
4.

Malay

[Pd. 29.

Gendang rebana.

1.

031.

(Plate

IV

fig.

II

right hand

specimen.)

Bowl-shaped drum of mirabou wood, the top is closed by
Into the rim
a diaphragm of sheep's skin, the bottom is open.
of the bottom are driven ten square wooden pegs, their free ends
rest on and press against a circle of rattan round which pass
the rattan loops that secure the diaphragm the chief function
of this rattan circle and pegs is to act as an insulator, raising
the drum from the ground and so increasing its resonance. The
diaphragm is secured in the same way as shewn in Plate VII. fig.
1. except that the descending loops of rattan are in ten groups of
four or five loops, any one group being widely separated from
there are ten such groups and
that on either side of it
they correspond with the ten wooden pegs in the bottom rim of
the drum further, the edge of the diaphragm is doubled back to
cover the rattan lacing and this is kept in position by a single
encircling rattan laced through it.
;

;

;

Immediately before use the diaphragm is tightened by
pushing between it and the upper rim of the dram from the
inside a circle of thick unsplit rattan,

the

drum is not

in

use the sidak

Height 18 cm.; diam.
Catalogue No. 124G.

is

known

as the sidak

;

when

kept coiled up inside the drum.

at top, 44*5 cm.; diam. at bottom 24-8 cm.

[Pd. 28. 1. 03].&lt;noinclude&gt;

{{right|{{x-smaller|Jour. Straits Branch}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/191</title>
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      <id>15131588</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T13:58:50Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1062" sha1="9ujq0j7gjcigtthsvoz1f8l6u3zp58j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|161|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ears. Dr. O'Meara and Major Blakeney, who was appointed captain of the guard at Longwood, rushed immediately from their rooms, expecting to find the ladies half dead with fear. All the household, some of whom were in bed, ran out in the greatest alarm; some were gazing up at the sky, others looking stupified with wonder and amazement as to what had caused such a commotion. Little Tristram Montholon, who had some time previously retired to rest, came screaming to his mother, declaring that somebody had been trying to throw him out of bed. The cause of our terror proved to be an earthquake, the only one remembered to have occurred at St. Helena for nearly a century. The horror this event occasioned us all, can only be conceived by those who are acquainted with the island; more especially was the alarm felt by those whose friends and relatives were residing in any of the valleys, so narrow and wedge-like in their form, and flanked, as they generally&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/192</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847336</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131593</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:00:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131593</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1054" sha1="lqgrf8sg8su1rc5yqk8p7dxhls8lcjw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|162|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;were, by tremendous overhanging precipices, at the summit of which enormous loose rocks threatened continual destruction to those who were beneath. It was observed at the time, that had the shocks been lateral, instead of perpendicular, those who resided in the valleys must have been destroyed by the vast boulders of stone which would have fallen from the mountains above. Napoleon had retired to bed, and it was not till the next morning that we saw him. He asked us if we had been frightened by the ''tremblement de terre'' on the previous evening, observing that I looked pale and ''quiet''. He mentioned to General Bertrand that he at first thought the &quot;Conqueror,&quot; a 74 lying in the harbour, bad blown up, and that the great powder magazine had exploded, but on feeling the third shock he perceived it to be an earthquake. It lasted from 16 to 18 seconds. Many people fancied the rumbling noise they at first heard to be thunder, but when it was&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/193</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847337</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131597</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:05:34Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1080" sha1="8jaez0tu30k9ysl4q1rh1ijbxc9hulr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|163|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;remembered that such a phenomenon as thunder&lt;ref&gt;It is mentioned in [[Author:Thomas Henry Brooke|Brooks]]'s History of St. Helena, there had been two shocks of earthquakes in the island during the years 1756 and 1782.&lt;/ref&gt; was never heard, nor had lightning ever been seen since the discovery of St. Helena, that idea was abandoned. Thunder and lightning have never been known to disturb the harmony of the climate. To account for this, it is said that the electric fluid is attracted by a high and conical-shaped mountain, called Diana's Peak, and conducted by it into the sea. I was too much alarmed after the occurrence of the earthquake to go to bed for many nights.

Seeing me one day unusually low-spirited, Napoleon inquired what could possibly have happened to drive away the dimples from my usually ''riant'' face. &quot;Has any one run away with a favourite ''proté da bal'', or is the pet black nurse, old Sarah, dead! What can have occurred?&quot; I told him it&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1072" sha1="7xg0innl8hzozzwob4uib9hyigg5lhi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|164|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;was neither one thing nor the other, but simply that our kind lady governess, Mrs. Wilks&lt;ref&gt;Mrs. Wilks, now Mrs. Blamire, the wife of the late M.P. for the county of Cumberland.&lt;/ref&gt;, had left the island, and such demonstrations of grief had never before been seen at St. Helena. She was so beloved, people of all ranks and ages crowded to the castle to say, &quot;God bless you, and a safe and happy voyage home.&quot; Not a dry eye was to be seen amongst the crowd then collected; that leave-taking of our much loved and respected governor and his family resembled more a funeral than a levee; so sad and solemn was every face. I fancy I can see them now, following the party to the beach as they embarked in the barge that conducted them on board the Havannah; and when the noble frigate spread her canvass to the swelling breeze that bore from the little rock those who had contributed so much to the happiness of its gratefully impressed inhabitants, groups of&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/195</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15131599</id>
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        <username>Tcr25</username>
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      <text bytes="1034" sha1="0qkfoy3c3n5iy2fmuddqvuvcov9rbnd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|165|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;sorrow-stricken ladies were seen wandering under the pepul trees of the Sisters' Walk watching the vessel as she lessened from their tearful gaze, bearing on board a family who had rendered themselves so popular by their urbanity and kindness, which is even remembered to this day. I recounted the scene we had witnessed (and suffered with the rest) to the emperor; he was quite interested in the recital, and regretted much not having been acquainted with the lady governess, as she must have been so very amiable.

Napoleon's hour for rising was uncertain; though generally early, it much depended on the rest he took during the day, or the sultry state of the weather; occasionally he would sleep for an hour or two on the bench under our trelliced grape walk at the &quot;Briars,&quot; and when he awoke refreshed, would write or dictate away for hours together. Sometimes he would diversify his occupation by riding round our lawn on his&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/196</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15131600</id>
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        <username>Tcr25</username>
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      <text bytes="1021" sha1="8ud5tu6wsz51fyobsjk6hngwuzvmvnv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|166|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIV.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;beautiful black horse &quot;Hope.&quot; The name pleased him; it was the first he had ridden on the island, and he liked the augury. After his long ''day'' sleeps he would court the drowsy god at night by desiring Marchand to read to him until the &quot;sweet restorer, nature's soft nurse,&quot; came to his aid. Frequently, when the nights were illumined by the splendid tropical moon, would he rise at three o'clock, and saunter down to the garden long before old Toby, the slave, had slept off his first nap, and there he would regale himself with an early breakfast of delicious fruits with which our garden abounded. Our old Malay was so fond of the man Bony, as he designated the emperor, that he always placed the garden key where Napoleon's fingers could reach it under the wicket. No one else was ever favoured in the like manner, but he had completely fascinated and won the old man's heart, and Napoleon looked upon Toby with a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/225</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15131601</id>
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      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="663" sha1="n87daw0b0tjekhfqbzu32scyqdv29jj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|193|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;was quite true, and complimented him upon being as well informed as the traveller himself. The Lama was subject to the Chinese; he never married, neither did his priest; the body into which, according to their belief, the spirit passed, was found out by the priests from certain signs. Napoleon's conference with the traveller lasted some time; he asked a thousand questions respecting the Chinese, their language, customs, &amp;c. When the interview was concluded, he observed it had given him greater pleasure than he had experienced for many long months.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/224</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15131602</id>
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      <text bytes="1029" sha1="ae4mhpyk0or7o82yjzt3yhggdp4zwe0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|192|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;with his interview. He could not think how they, jealous as they were in their religious rites, should have admitted an unbeliever into their sacred temple, and have permitted him to approach the Lama. Mr. Manning said he honoured and respected all religions, as did Napoleon.

The emperor wished to know if he had passed for an Englishman, as the shape of his nose was too good for a Tartar. Mr. Manning replied, that he had been taken for a Hindoo, which, from the regularity of his features and fine eyes, might easily have been the case. Napoleon told him that travellers were privileged to tell marvellous stories, and he hoped he was not doing so in relating the wonders of Thibet. He wanted to know if it were true that the revenues of the Grand Lama were derived from the gifts of the multitudes that daily flocked from all parts to worship at his shrine, as well as from priestly extortion. Manning told the emperor it&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena/Chapter 14</title>
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      <comment>transclude chapter</comment>
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      <text bytes="399" sha1="firop57giwxo9ispv0jbj4pjbqr5cgw" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena
 | author      = Lucia Elizabeth Balcombe Abell
 | section     = Chapter XIV
 | previous    = [[../Chapter 13|Chapter XIII]]
 | next        = [[../Chapter 15|Chapter XV]]
 | year        = 1844
 | notes       = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; from=182 to=197 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
{{smallrefs}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/171</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="1785" sha1="9oc4ti95pcfwzl65gmadduitgjxuw3j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|165|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;She hated that, but some day they would both be glad of it. She actually cried for the two of them as she wrote her stern little fiction:

{{letter|
&quot;{{sc|Dear Peter}}:

&quot;No, I don't love you as you are. The man I marry must be a man worth while like my father or Philip. I couldn't stand the thought of spending my life with some one ordinary.

&quot;But I want to love you, Peter. Write me soon and say you are going to get to work in earnest. Happy New Year.

{{right|&quot;Sincerely,|6em}}

{{right|&quot;{{sc|Joanna.}}&quot;|2em}}
}}

She read it over and over, totally blind to its supreme egotism. Then she sealed it and, sniffling a little—more like a child than like an artist—went to bed.

In the morning she awoke with a sense of impending disaster. The phrase is trite but so, alas, is disaster. At first, as she lay there, her slender brown arms stretched above her tumbled head, she mused to herself about it.

&quot;Let's see why I do feel so rotten? What's the matter?&quot;

She remembered her engagement with the ''artiste''. &quot;But that's not what's making me sick,&quot; she told herself after a momentary probing of her self-consciousness. Then recalling the letter to Peter, she got up and walked bare-footed across the room to the desk, shivering a little as the chilly January morning air struck at her, billowing her thin {{ah|night|dress}}. She thought she would read it again, but the envelope was sealed. It slipped out of her hand and she ran back to bed again, cuddling luxuriously.

&quot;Oh, well!&quot; Afterwards when she rose and closed the windows she promised herself: &quot;If I do send it I'll write him a sweet, sweet letter soon.&quot;

After breakfast she posted it. It fell with a heaviness into the box that made her uneasy. &quot;I'll write him again to{{peh}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/214</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847345</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131607</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:18:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="997" sha1="lkdx2h26vf8fbmlp0hcfrcs9m29928h" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|182|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;borrowed from the heart.&quot; He would frequently rail at the island in no measured language; I always defended it in proportionate terms of praise. Sometimes he laughed at my impertinence, and at others he would pinch my ear, and ask me how I could possibly dare to have an opinion on the subject.

The emperor had that great charm in social life, of being amused and interested in matters of triffing import. It seems to me to be an attribute of his countrymen, from which, no doubt, they derive that vivacity and ''talent de société'' generally possessed by them, but which, from our inherent reserve and national shyness, would sit awkwardly on us, English. It would be something like the statue of Hercules in the National Gallery stepping from his pedestal and taking Cerito's place in the &quot;Pas de l'Ombre.&quot; Napoleon was very fond of extracting from me my little store of knowledge, acquired&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/215</title>
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      <id>15131608</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T14:18:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1004" sha1="j23qxc3fzqkhojmvl84zeyrzfi26iyr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|183|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;from, I fear, rather desultory reading. However, being fond of books, and having a retentive memory, I could apparently chain his interest for some hours. &quot;Now, Mademoiselle Betsee,&quot; he would say, &quot;I hope you have been goot child and learnt all your lesson;&quot; which he said purposely to annoy me, as I was anxious to be thought full grown, and, like most young ladies of my age, scorned the idea of being called a child, deeming myself fully competent to embark upon the troublous sea of life, and to battle with its storms without the rudder of experience. He was much interested in a favourite study of mine, namely, the account of the discovery and colonization of St. Helena by the Portuguese, and he would listen attentively while I repeated it, for I had it almost by heart.

My young brother, Alexander, had a pet goat, of which he was very fond, and the animal used to draw him about in a little&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/216</title>
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      <text bytes="1046" sha1="ie4aeysygn635iij1onig35qyckd1j8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|184|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;carriage. One day Napoleon had given him a little box, made by Piron, full of ''bon-bons'': when my brother had eaten all his sugar-plums, and was grieving over his exhausted store, he unluckily chanced to espy a pill-box, which, with other medicines, had been inadvertently placed on a bench in the garden; he carefully put some of its contents into his ''bonbonnière'', and gravely walking up to the emperor, presented it. Napoleon, always good-natured to the child, and supposing them to be sugar-plums, helped himself to one, and began eating it. I need not say how soon it was ejected, and what coughing and nausea ensued, when my little brother's mischievous trick was divulged, and it was found that pills of a very unpalatable nature had been offered to and swallowed by the emperor. The poor little fellow got soundly whipped by my father, to whom his naughty conduct had been made known by Las Cases, who witnessed the joke and inı-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/217</title>
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      <text bytes="1005" sha1="5lehkopfsav951cgcbwlkpqrno93agc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|185|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;mediately reported it; he knew my father to be too severe a disciplinarian to over-look even a trifling fault.

My father had been suffering from a very violent attack of gout, which prevented his riding to Longwood, as was his daily habit. When he saw Napoleon after his recovery, the emperor began laughing at him, and told him, if he sat a shorter time after dinner, he would have fewer attacks of gout. He asked him what remedies he had resorted to to be cured. My father replied, he had taken &quot;Eau medicinale,&quot; upon which Napoleon laughingly remarked, had he drank more pure water and less wine he might have dispensed with the ''eau medicinale''. He told him he was too young to want physic, as remedies ought only to be resorted to by the old. In speaking of his own abstemious habits, he observed that he drank very little wine; however, the little he did drink was absolutely taken medicinally,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/172</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="1643" sha1="ccop0e0ae48a1o4p35z4p6tcuvf75hn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|166|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;night,&quot; she thought. &quot;Poor Peter! He'll be disappointed, I suppose.&quot;

But the night brought her several offers to sing in Southern schools which she thought she might just as well accept. Apparently nothing was to come of her dancing. She had about a week in which to get ready.

Just before she left, a little surprised that she had not already heard from Peter, she wrote him a long letter, her first long love-letter.

{{letter|
&quot;Dearest Peter [she began]

&quot;You can't think how awfully I want to see you. If you were here to-night I shouldn't quarrel with you one moment.&quot;
}}

She quoted lines from one of Goethe's poems.

{{ppoem|
{{fqm}}Ein blick von deinen Augen in die meinen,
Ein Kuss von deinen Mund auf meinem Munde:
}}

She hesitated a moment, a little aghast at this disclosure of her feelings. &quot;But I might just as well, he deserves it. Dear, dear Peter, if I could just see you!&quot;

She ended, smiling shamefacedly at her own abandon{{longdash}}

{{ppoem|
{{fqm}}Mein einzig Glück auf Erden ist dein Wille&quot;{{longdash}}
}}

She might have stopped in Philadelphia on her way South, but she couldn't after that letter. In Richmond she received a note from Peter which Sylvia had forwarded.

{{letter|
&quot;My dear Joanna [she was surprised at the formality]

&quot;I have both your letters. I cannot tell you how surprised I was at receiving the first or how much I cherished the second. Joanna, I would give ten years of my life if you had written the second one first. I am very busy now but I am going to write you a final letter very soon.

{{right|&quot;Sincerely,|8em}}

{{right|&quot;{{sc|Peter.}}&quot;|2em}}
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Two kings of Uganda.djvu/50</title>
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      <text bytes="1482" sha1="bfg3et1jodt96h0l4f1am1ret8m6vv8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;AKibombo&quot; /&gt;{{rh|26|''&quot;A NATIVE LOOM&quot;''}}
{{rule|59em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;great in nothing. This is the Mutesa of whom, later on, I have more to say. 

The very name of Mirambo inspired so much fear in the breasts of our Moslem porters that they 
had deserted us by dozens. Mirambo had been carrying on a constant war with the Arabs at 
Unyanyembe, their important trading centre, which was in his country, and many Arabs and their black Mahometan slaves and retainers had fallen in the frequent encounters which had taken place. Hence the dislike of their co-religionists in our caravan to put themselves in the power of the chief. Their fear was altogether imaginary, for Mirambo never would have touched one of them, at any rate while with a European. 

Another fortnight's journey through the picturesque district of Musalala brought us to the Nyanza, or at least to one of the swamps in which a small arm of the mighty lake terminates. Passing through the villages of this district, I saw for the first time a native loom at work. The spinning of the cotton is carried on in the spare moments of some of the youths. The apparatus is very simple : a stick with a hook at one end, and just below the hook a round disk through which the stick passes ; to get the twist the cotton is rubbed with the palm of the hand on the naked thigh of the spinner, just as the cobbler at home twists his wax end. The loom is of the roughest construction. The shuttle is slowly passed through the threads by the fingers of the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule|59em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;great in nothing. This is the Mutesa of whom, later on, I have more to say. 

The very name of Mirambo inspired so much fear in the breasts of our Moslem porters that they 
had deserted us by dozens. Mirambo had been carrying on a constant war with the Arabs at 
Unyanyembe, their important trading centre, which was in his country, and many Arabs and their black Mahometan slaves and retainers had fallen in the frequent encounters which had taken place. Hence the dislike of their co-religionists in our caravan to put themselves in the power of the chief. Their fear was altogether imaginary, for Mirambo never would have touched one of them, at any rate while with a European. 

Another fortnight's journey through the picturesque district of Musalala brought us to the Nyanza, or at least to one of the swamps in which a small arm of the mighty lake terminates. Passing through the villages of this district, I saw for the first time a native loom at work. The spinning of the cotton is carried on in the spare moments of some of the youths. The apparatus is very simple : a stick with a hook at one end, and just below the hook a round disk through which the stick passes ; to get the twist the cotton is rubbed with the palm of the hand on the naked thigh of the spinner, just as the cobbler at home twists his wax end. The loom is of the roughest construction. The shuttle is slowly passed through the threads by the fingers of the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/54</title>
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      <text bytes="2466" sha1="j4fmxopm7dg0j1ivcv9219p674maosf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|38|{{sc|suetonius.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;LVII. He was perfect in the use of arms, an accomplished rider, and able to endure fatigue beyond all belief. On a march, he used to go at the head of his troops, sometimes on horseback, but oftener on foot, with his head bare in all kinds of weather. He would travel post in a light carriage&lt;ref&gt;''Meritoria rheda''; a light four-wheeled carriage, apparently hired either for the journey or from town to town. They were tolerably commodious, for Cicero writes to Atticus, (v. 17.) ''Hanc epistolam dictavi sedens in rheda, cum in castra proficiscerer''.&lt;/ref&gt; without baggage, at the rate of a hundred miles a day; and if he was stopped by floods in the rivers, he swam across, or floated on skins inflated with wind, so that he often anticipated intelligence of his movements.&lt;ref&gt;Plutarch informs us that Cæsar travelled with such expedition, that he reached the Rhone on the eighth day after he left Rome.&lt;/ref&gt;

LVIII. In his expeditions, it is difficult to say whether his caution or his daring was most conspicuous. He never marched his army by roads which were exposed to ambuscades, without having previously examined the nature of the ground by his scouts. Nor did he cross over to Britain, before he had carefully examined, in person,&lt;ref&gt;Cæsar tells us himself that he employed C. Volusenus to reconnoitre the coast of Britain, sending him forward in a long ship, with orders to return and make his report before the expedition sailed.&lt;/ref&gt; the navigation, the harbours, and the most convenient point of landing in the island. When intelligence was brought to him of the siege of his camp in Germany, he made his way to his troops, through the enemy's stations, in a Gaulish dress. He crossed the sea from Brundisium and Dyrrachium, in the winter, through the midst of the enemy's fleets; and the troops, under orders to join him, being slow in their movements, notwithstanding repeated messages to hurry them, but to no purpose, he at last went privately, and alone, aboard a small vessel in the night time, with his head muffled up; nor did he make himself known, or suffer the master to put about, although the wind blew strong against them, until they were ready to sink.

LIX. He was never deterred from any enterprise, nor retarded in the prosecution of it, by superstition.&lt;ref&gt;''Religione''; that is, the omens being unfavourable.&lt;/ref&gt; When a victim, which he was about to offer in sacrifice, made its&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/223</title>
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      <text bytes="1063" sha1="13v5d1l67w6nyxodohqz6tni4o28fi0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|191|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;fabulous. I described the impression Mr. Manning had made on me by his imposing appearance; his dress was like that of a Mandarin, and he wore a long black beard which reached to his waist. He had, during the war, been a prisoner in France, and had been treated with great clemency by Napoleon; thus was each party anxious to see the other. Mr. Manning had brought many very curious presents for Napoleon, which he had collected in his travels. He obtained a pass to see the emperor; he said he had been presented to the Lama, who was a very intelligent boy of seven years old; that he had gone through the same forms as the other worshippers who were admitted to the celestial presence. Napoleon asked him if he were not afraid of being seized as a spy. The traveller did not seem pleased that the emperor should have thought that his appearance could have conveyed such an impression; but he laughingly pointed to his beard and dress, and seemed much diverted&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/222</title>
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      <text bytes="1026" sha1="iqdw7tyfsai47j4qjqey3hrckb30hcz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|190|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;aloud. He saw how shocked we were, and tried to make light of it, saying, he was sure the good O'Meara would soon cure him; but my mother observed, when we had left, that death was stamped on every feature. He, however, rallied from this attack, to pass nearly three more years in hopeless misery; for it became more evident to him that the anticipation in which he indulged (on first coming to St. Helena) of quitting the island, became fainter as health declined, and time wore on.

The emperor expressed much curiosity to be introduced to a Mr. Manning who had arrived at St. Helena on his voyage to England from China, which country he had visited after exploring the unknown, and at that time, untravelled, kingdom of Thibet. Napoleon said he had a great curiosity to hear something relating to their mode of worshipping the Grand Lama, as he was induced to believe most of the accounts he had read and heard of it were&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/173</title>
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      <text bytes="1290" sha1="4t38hllhbd007p8cwxhn10vselbl95p" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|167|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{&quot; '}}A final letter,{{' &quot;}} she quoted to herself. &quot;What a funny thing to say! Oh, Peter! And I wanted, I needed a real letter, a love-letter!&quot; Her natural reasonableness helped her. &quot;It's my own fault. I suppose he feels like I feel sometimes, don't-care-y. But 'a final letter.' I wonder what he meant!&quot;

But she did not puzzle long. Richmond was appreciative and gay. Some one wrote her from Hampton and asked her to do an interpretative dance. Partly because of the interest and excitement, partly because she had forced herself to do so often, she resolutely put Peter out of her mind.

&quot;He'll know when I write him again,&quot; she told herself ruefully.

Two weeks, a month passed; she came into her room one day to find a bulky letter from Sylvia. &quot;He doesn't mean it, Joanna, of course, but I had to send it.&quot; Thus her sister's note. Puzzled, she read the inclosure, which turned out to be a letter from Peter to Sylvia.

{{letter|
&quot;{{sc|Dear Sylvia}}:

&quot;I am writing to let you know that I am to be married in June. Joanna told me she didn't love me and so I am going to marry Maggie Neal; she's crazy about me. Tell Joanna not to bother sending back any of the things I've given her.

{{right|&quot;Sincerely,|8em}}

{{right|&quot;{{sc|Peter.}}&quot;|2em}}
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Two kings of Uganda.djvu/51</title>
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{{rule|59em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;weaver ; and I think it takes fully three months to finish a piece of cloth two or three yards in length. When finished it is very strong, and has a dark-coloured border woven in ; the yarn for the border is dyed in a peculiar manner. This cloth is largely worn by the women of Unyamwezi. 

Here too I saw for the first time native Africans at work forging iron. Large quantities of wood are collected and burned into charcoal, but no oven of any kind is used. The smithies are grass huts erected over a convenient boulder or out-cropping rock. This forms the anvil, and for a hammer a large round stone is used; but in Buganda the people manufacture their hammers of iron. The ore is smelted in a charcoal furnace, the blast for which is supplied by bellows 
made out of goat-skin, tied on a piece of hollowed cup-shaped wood ; there is no valve, but a space is left between the clay tube which conducts the blast to the furnace and the aperture in the wooden cup ; the bellows are worked up and down by a vertical stick, round which the skin is gathered in the centre. 

It was with the most eager anxiety that we awaited our first view of the great Nyanza, to reach which we had undergone so many toils and such utter weariness. We had visions of looking out upon a vast expanse of sparkling sapphire, and could already hear in imagination the breaking of the waves upon the beach. When the final march of twenty miles was over and we reached the last village before the lake, we felt sure&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule|59em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;weaver ; and I think it takes fully three months to finish a piece of cloth two or three yards in length. When finished it is very strong, and has a dark-coloured border woven in ; the yarn for the border is dyed in a peculiar manner. This cloth is largely worn by the women of Unyamwezi. 

Here too I saw for the first time native Africans at work forging iron. Large quantities of wood are collected and burned into charcoal, but no oven of any kind is used. The smithies are grass huts erected over a convenient boulder or out-cropping rock. This forms the anvil, and for a hammer a large round stone is used; but in Buganda the people manufacture their hammers of iron. The ore is smelted in a charcoal furnace, the blast for which is supplied by bellows 
made out of goat-skin, tied on a piece of hollowed cup-shaped wood ; there is no valve, but a space is left between the clay tube which conducts the blast to the furnace and the aperture in the wooden cup ; the bellows are worked up and down by a vertical stick, round which the skin is gathered in the centre. 

It was with the most eager anxiety that we awaited our first view of the great Nyanza, to reach which we had undergone so many toils and such utter weariness. We had visions of looking out upon a vast expanse of sparkling sapphire, and could already hear in imagination the breaking of the waves upon the beach. When the final march of twenty miles was over and we reached the last village before the lake, we felt sure&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1060" sha1="n5ppfj9vp2uske1mga7v7z5j98qg20j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|189|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;one of his suite who appeared careless of these restrictions was General Gourgaud; he had been stopped, Napoleon observed, fifty times. Once, when at the Briars, he said, he had been treated rather unceremoniously by a sentry, and complaints being made to the Admiral, that officer was really displeased about it, and took every precaution to prevent a recurrence of such annoyance.

When we saw Napoleon after this illness, the havoc and change it had made in his appearance was sad to look upon. IIis face was literally the colour of yellow wax, and his checks had fallen in pouches on either side his face. His ancles were so swollen that the flesh literally hung over his shoes; he was so weak, that without resting one hand on a table near him, and the other on the shoulder of an attendant, he could not have stood. I was so grieved at seeing him in such a pitiable state, that my eyes overflowed with tears, and I could with difficulty forbear sobbing&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1072" sha1="muwk41uvck1seagsk9e480cr2atd6n1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|188|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;were collected, they would but repeat what ''you'' have already advised me{{mdash}}to take constant exercise on horseback. I am well aware of the truth of what you say, but were I to call in Mr. {{longdash}}, it would be but like sending a physician to a starving man, instead of giving him a loaf of bread. I have no objection to your making known to him my state of health, if it be any satisfaction to you; but I know that he will say{{mdash}}''exercise''. As long as this strict surveillance is enforced I will never stir out.&quot;

It was in vain, Dr. O'Meara again and again urged the subject, his invariable reply was, &quot;Would you have me render myself liable to be stopped and insulted by the sentries surrounding my house, as Madame Bertrand was some days ago?&quot; It would have made a fine caricature in the London print shops,{{mdash}}Napoleon Bonaparte stopped at the gate by a sentinel charging him with fixed bayonet. How the Londoners would have laughed! The only&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="992" sha1="0ylumd86blrdfhaedz1yqg6e05hbj7i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|187|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;a kind of coarse cow-grass, which even horses refuse.

A long interval frequently elapsed between our visits to the emperor. A few months previously to our leaving St. Helena he had been very ill, and from Mr. O'Meara's account we feared he might never rally from the state of prostration of mind and body into which he had sunk. He was obstinate in refusing to take exercise, disliking the strict watch kept over him on the occasion of his walking abroad; and he declared he would rather die at once than use the only means recommended of alleviating his disorder. Mr. O'Meara entreated permission to call in a brother surgeon, that in the event of his complaint continuing obstinate, blame might not be attached to him for trusting solely to his own opinion. I recollect hearing Mr. O'Meara repeat the emperor's reply, which was to this effect; &quot;that if all the physicians in the universe&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule|59em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;that we should get a grand view of the water ; but all we saw was a scrubby bit of forest. Before we rested we set off to seek for the Nyanza; after walking about three miles we came to a piece of rising ground, and following with our eyes the direction indicated by one of the elders of the village who had accompanied us, we saw in the valley below a long strip of vividly green grass and nothing more. &quot; That,&quot; said our imperturbable guide, &quot; is the Nyanza.&quot; It was with much disappointment that we retraced our steps, and it was not for another month that we really did see the never-to-be-forgotten sight of the illimitable expanse of that glorious inland ocean.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule|59em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;that we should get a grand view of the water ; but all we saw was a scrubby bit of forest. Before we rested we set off to seek for the Nyanza; after walking about three miles we came to a piece of rising ground, and following with our eyes the direction indicated by one of the elders of the village who had accompanied us, we saw in the valley below a long strip of vividly green grass and nothing more. &quot; That,&quot; said our imperturbable guide, &quot; is the Nyanza.&quot; It was with much disappointment that we retraced our steps, and it was not for another month that we really did see the never-to-be-forgotten sight of the illimitable expanse of that glorious inland ocean.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule|59em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;that we should get a grand view of the water ; but all we saw was a scrubby bit of forest. Before we rested we set off to seek for the Nyanza; after walking about three miles we came to a piece of rising ground, and following with our eyes the direction indicated by one of the elders of the village who had accompanied us, we saw in the valley below a long strip of vividly green grass and nothing more. &quot; That,&quot; said our imperturbable guide, &quot; is the Nyanza.&quot; It was with much disappointment that we retraced our steps, and it was not for another month that we really did see the never-to-be-forgotten sight of the illimitable expanse of that glorious inland ocean.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule|59em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;that we should get a grand view of the water ; but all we saw was a scrubby bit of forest. Before we rested we set off to seek for the Nyanza; after walking about three miles we came to a piece of rising ground, and following with our eyes the direction indicated by one of the elders of the village who had accompanied us, we saw in the valley below a long strip of vividly green grass and nothing more. &quot; That,&quot; said our imperturbable guide, &quot; is the Nyanza.&quot; It was with much disappointment that we retraced our steps, and it was not for another month that we really did see the never-to-be-forgotten sight of the illimitable expanse of that glorious inland ocean.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1038" sha1="38xu5feaj2j2sdj3llkl0ku0hcrv0n3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|186|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XVI.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and he always found himself better after it, feeling convinced that if he left it off, he should soon become ill. One of his principal specifics was a warm salt water bath. Mr. O'Meara told us that having recommended Napoleon a dose of medicine, soon after he came to St. Helena, he answered him by a slap in the face, and told him if he were not better on the morrow, he should have recourse to his own remedy{{mdash}}abstinence and a bath. He was very fond of asking anatomical questions, and often fancied he had disease of the heart, and made O'Meara count its pulsations. He constantly complained of illness from the exposed situation of Longwood, the wind continually beating in his face, or the sun scorching his brain; he used to observe, when at the Briars, that he never suffered any ailment, for there he had shady and sheltered walks. Certainly Longwood was very bleak, and scarcely any vegetables would grow upon it, except&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena/Chapter 16</title>
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      <text bytes="377" sha1="mimn7gkepkjzoebt3gf8tv2yss9wn8j" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena
 | author      = Lucia Elizabeth Balcombe Abell
 | section     = Chapter XVI
 | previous    = [[../Chapter 15|Chapter XV]]
 | next        = [[../Chapter 17|Chapter XVII]]
 | year        = 1844
 | notes       = 
}}

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    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/55</title>
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      <text bytes="2268" sha1="5ced8aa6bv4lb1etanao13yov0ucj69" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|julius cæsar.}}|39}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;escape, he did not therefore defer his expedition against Scipio and Juba. And happening to fall, upon stepping out of the ship, he gave a lucky turn to the omen, by exclaiming, &quot;I hold thee fast, Africa.&quot; To chide the prophecies which were spread abroad, that the name of the Scipios was, by the decrees of fate, fortunate and invincible in that province, he retained in the camp a profligate wretch, of the family of the Cornelii, who, on account of his scandalous life, was surnamed Salutio.

LX. He not only fought pitched battles, but made sudden attacks when an opportunity offered; often at the end of a march, and sometimes during the most violent storms, when nobody could imagine he would stir. Nor was he ever backward in fighting, until towards the end of his life. He then was of opinion, that the oftener he had been crowned with success, the less he ought to expose himself to new hazards; and that nothing he could gain by a victory would compensate for what he might lose by a miscarriage. He never defeated the enemy without driving them from their camp; and giving them no time to rally their forces. When the issue of a battle was doubtful, he sent away all the horses, and his own first, that having no means of flight, they might be under the greater necessity of standing their ground.

LXI. He rode a very remarkable horse, with feet almost like those of a man, the hoofs being divided in such a manner as to have some resemblance to toes. This horse he had bred himself, and the soothsayers having interpreted these circumstances into an omen that its owner would be master of the world, he brought him up with particular care, and broke him in himself, as the horse would suffer no one else to mount him. A statue of this horse was afterwards created by Cæsar's order before the temple of Venus Genitrix.

LXII. He often rallied his troops, when they were giving way, by his personal efforts; stopping those who fled, keeping others in their ranks, and seizing them by their throat turned them towards the enemy; although numbers were so terrified, that an eagle-bearer,&lt;ref name=&quot;p39&quot;&gt;The standard of the Roman legions was an eagle fixed on the head&lt;/ref&gt; thus stopped, made a thrust at him with&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/174</title>
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{{dropcap|O}}{{uc|ne}} of the mysteries of the ages will be solved with the answer to the question: Why do men consider women incalculable? Peter had been hurt by Joanna's indifference again and again, she had refused a dozen times to marry him, she had scolded him, teased him, slighted him. Yet she had always come back to his eager arms. In spite of this he had been unable to see in her attitude at Christmas and in the unkind letter which she had written the logical outcome of her earlier acts—all of which by enduring he had tacitly indorsed.

He read the letter in a maze of anger and wounded pride. Before he knew it he had caught up his cap and started for Maggie's house. By the time the long, yellow, crawling car had jolted him over the uneven reaches of Lombard Street and set him down at Fifteenth he was in a fever of bitterness, resentment and self-pity. Maggie hardly knew him when he entered her little sitting-room.

&quot;Oh, Peter,&quot; she went up to him swiftly, &quot;something awful has happened.&quot;

He showed her the letter, striding up and down the room as she read it.

She lifted her head to say to him: &quot;She doesn't mean it; you know Joanna, always making a mountain out of a {{ah|mole|hill}}.&quot;

Instead she heard herself saying: &quot;How could she possibly write such things to you—you've always been so kind.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{fine|168}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/175</title>
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      <text bytes="1687" sha1="8x8o9eh6npmhhncdn2u1snqa0a4p7up" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|169|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;Too kind,&quot; he muttered. &quot;I tell you what, Maggie, Joanna's got no heart, she's all head, all ideas and if you don't see and act her way, she's got no use for you.&quot;

&quot;I do think she thinks herself a lot better than any one else,&quot; Maggie said slowly, remembering Joanna's letter to her about Philip.

&quot;Well, she is, you know,&quot; he put in unexpectedly. &quot;Oh, Lord, what am I going to do without her!&quot;

Genuinely touched, she sat down on the little box-couch beside him and slid her arm around his shoulder. &quot;After all, you've still got me, Peter.&quot;

He looked up at her, feeling the surge of a new idea in his heart. If he could only punish Joanna—no not punish exactly, you couldn't punish her, she was always too remote for that—but shock her, let her see, as his boyhood's phrase would have had it, that she was not the only pebble on the beach. Besides, what a revenge to cut loose altogether from the influence of her ideals and ally himself with one whom she would have characterized as having no ideals at all.

Before the thought was even shaped in his brain he was speaking:

&quot;Of course I always have you, Maggie. How—how would you like to spend your future with me?&quot;

&quot;What do you mean, Peter?&quot;

&quot;I mean, Joanna's chucked me. You and I get along famously, you've got your divorce from Neal. Why not marry me?&quot;

It was plain that though surprised she liked the idea. She saw herself suddenly transformed in this inhospitable snobbish city from Maggie Neal, alone and ''déclassée'', into Mrs. Peter Bye, a model of respectability.

That he had no money, no accepted means of making a livelihood she understood would mean nothing. He was a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/56</title>
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      <text bytes="2219" sha1="l3spz54vrs0qtgswdj3mmbxy2ofxnal" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|40|{{sc|suetonius.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;ref follow=&quot;p39&quot;&gt;of a spear. It was silver, small in size, with expanded wings, and clutching a golden thunderbolt in its claw.&lt;/ref&gt;
the spear-head; and another, upon a similar occasion, left the standard in his hand.

LXIII. The following instances of his resolution are equally, and even more remarkable. After the battle of Pharsalia, having sent his troops before him into Asia, as he was passing the straits of the Hellespont in a ferry-boat, he met with Lucius Cassius, one of the opposite party, with ten ships of war; and so far from endeavouring to escape, he went alongside his ship, and calling upon him to surrender, Cassius humbly gave him his submission.

LXIV. At Alexandria, in the attack of a bridge, being forced by a sudden sally of the enemy into a boat, and several others hurrying in with him, he leaped into the sea, and saved himself by swimming to the next ship, which lay at the distance of two hundred paces; holding up his left hand out of the water, for fear of wetting some papers which he held in it; and pulling his general's cloak after him with his teeth, lest it should fall into the hands of the enemy.

LXV. He never valued a soldier for his moral conduct or his means, but for his courage only; and treated his troops with a mixture of severity and indulgence; for he did not always keep a strict hand over them, but only when the enemy was near. Then indeed he was so strict a disciplinarian, that he would give no notice of a march or a battle until the moment of action, in order that the troops might hold themselves in readiness for any sudden movement; and he would frequently draw them out of the camp without any necessity for it, especially in rainy weather, and upon holy-days. Sometimes, giving them orders not to lose sight of him, he would suddenly depart by day or by night, and lengthen the marches in order to tire them out, as they followed him at a distance.

LXVI. When at any time his troops were dispirited by reports of the great force of the enemy, he rallied their courage, not by denying the truth of what was said, or by diminishing the facts, but, on the contrary, by exaggerating every {{hws|parti|particular}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/176</title>
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      <text bytes="1751" sha1="lqlv9cf0b9axke5yt0bvh68xuw11u2i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|170|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Bye and she as his wife could go anywhere. She would show Alice Talbert! And afterwards when he got his degree!

But because she had once loved Philip she could judge what Peter might mean to Joanna. To her credit she hesitated.

&quot;Joanna probably doesn't mean to let you go, Peter, she's just angry and disappointed. She takes things harder than Sylvia or I. You know she really cares about you, and so do you about her.&quot;

But he assured her that he did not. &quot;She's too exacting. Now there's one thing about you, Maggie—maybe it's because you've already been married—you know how to treat a man. Joanna makes you feel as though you were in a strait-jacket all the time. I always feel ordinary when I'm with you.&quot;

Neither of them noticed the doubtfulness of the compliment. In the end she accepted him. After all, she owed nothing to Joanna, who certainly had not considered her. How surprised she would be to think that Peter could so quickly find solace in her—Maggie's—arms! And Joanna should learn, too, that he could become a success without everlastingly being pushed and prodded.

Hard on this thought came another. &quot;Peter, you won't I have to work so hard now to get through school. I'll help you. You know I'm doing very well with the hair-work.&quot;

He dismissed the theme airily, one hand on her shoulder, the other fumbling for a cigarette.

&quot;Oh, I'm going to give medicine up. I'll just keep on with Tom and the music. Heavens, it's so nice to know you won't mind, Maggie. Can't think why I've stuck to the old school as long as I have, when here I am all set with this nice easy job to my hand. Might as well get along with as little trouble as possible. The world owes me a living.&quot;

{{***|5}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1015" sha1="94w18l0jl2s1zh1tzn0ezvax092i434" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|218|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the latter report, which though &quot;an old tale and often told,&quot; may not prove the less interesting on that account, when recorded, as far as my memory serves me, in the emperor's own words.

&quot;Before leaving Jaffa,&quot; said Napoleon, &quot;and when many of the sick had been embarked, I was informed that there were some in hospital wounded beyond recovery, dangerously ill, and unfit to be moved at any risk. I desired my medical men to hold a consultation as to what steps had best be taken with regard to the unfortunate sufferers, and to send in their opinions to me. The result of this consultation was, that seven-eighths of the soldiers were considered past recovery, and that in all probability few would be alive at the expiration of twenty hours. Moreover, some were afflicted with the plague, and to carry those onward would threaten the whole army with infection, and spread death wherever they appeared, without&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1857" sha1="guc70ehbbgsl8fscpbq47ps7v6yx7pm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|171|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Afterwards, back in his room with the green iron bedstead and the Bye Bible, he felt a difference, a sense of let-downness. He threw himself across the bed and {{SIC|groaned|groaned.}}

&quot;Joanna, how could you?&quot;

She could, that was evident. He was stupefied at the turn in his affairs. Five hours ago he had expected some day to be a physician and to marry Joanna Marshall. Now it seemed that he was going to be a musician and marry Maggie Neal.

&quot;It isn't true,&quot; he told himself, fiercely. But it was true. There on the dresser were some cookies wrapped up in a red and white fringed napkin, Maggie's gift when he left her.

&quot;I made them for you, hoping you would come in. Now you'll be in often, often, won't you? Oh, Peter, I'll be good to you. I'll be as unlike Joanna as possible.&quot; He did not want her to be unlike Joanna. In fact, he did not want her at all.

He might as well take her, though, for Joanna did not want him. That was it, no matter how many women he unaccountably married, Joanna might be shocked but she would never really care. Or suppose she did care a little while, she would soon forget it with her singing and dancing. Still, he supposed he must tell her. He would write her a gay, mocking letter. &quot;I hope you'll be as happy with your art as I feel I shall be with Maggie. She suits me perfectly.&quot;

After he had littered his desk and the floor beside it vainly with a veritable snow-storm of torn bits of paper, he let his head drop on his lean brown hands and went to sleep. Perhaps it would not be exact to say he cried himself to sleep, but there were certainly tears that burnt and scalded behind his eyelids.

His landlady complained of the torn paper the next morning. {{&quot; '}}Tisn't as though you didn't have a nice waste-paper basket ready and waitin', Mr. Bye.&quot; As she finished speak-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="422" sha1="hnfh5mnng6cub8kyx5zb5i1254jmxij" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|172|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ing she handed him Joanna's letter containing Goethe's poem. The tenderness, the real love that blazed in the beautiful lines overwhelmed him. He could not tell her the truth after a letter like that. So he wrote her, postponing but hinting, he fondly believed, at the news which he must soon break to her. A month later, finding himself still unequal to the task, he wrote to Sylvia.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;along the eastern slopes of the Oscuros—a black wilderness of jagged iron rocks sentinelled by weird cactus shapes— they circled and quartered like foxhounds questing on a cold trail. They whipped the wild ravines of Chupadero Mesa. They searched among the ruins of the Gran Quivera. Turning south, they passed through the Thre Rivers country, traversed the Jornado del Muerto, explored the cafions and valleys of the Organ Mountains, and came at the end of...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1860" sha1="k3u9gta0c67lxk6csd6q74pc6u1e2ay" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;268 THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;along the eastern slopes of the Oscuros—a black wilderness of jagged iron rocks sentinelled by weird cactus shapes— they circled and quartered like foxhounds questing on a cold trail. They whipped the wild ravines of Chupadero Mesa. They searched among the ruins of the Gran Quivera. Turning south, they passed through the Thre Rivers country, traversed the Jornado del Muerto, explored the cafions and valleys of the Organ Mountains, and came at the end of a bootless hunt into Mesilla. 
Not a clue had they found, not a word had they heard of 
the Kid’s whereabouts. So, weary, discouraged, and 
bedraggled, they trooped back to Lincoln. 
The other posses reported equally unsuccessful results. 
But Garrett was not yet ready to give up. He had one 
more card to play. From the Mescalero reservation he 
summoned two Apache trailers, lithe, half-naked, moc- 
casined fellows, famous among their people for skill in 
tracking game and men through trackless wastes. Given 
the direction of the Kid’s flight, these human sleuth- 
hounds set out from Lincoln on foot. Along the sides of 
the road they worked slowly, patiently, their keen eyes 
scrutinizing every inch of ground, until they came to the 
trail that branched off to Baca Cafion. Here where the 
Kid had turned they turned also. Some sign that no 
white man could have detected—a stone streaked by the 
swift impact of a horseshoe, a weed broken at a certain 
height from the ground and at a certain angle, a hoofprint 
of more than usual depth—guided these savage trackers 
in the right direction. They broke into a dog-trot, crossed 
the Bonito, plunged into Baca Cafion. To Padilla’s 
ranch they came at length, led by what microscopic trail 
marks no man might know except themselves. Padilla, 
good friend of the Kid that he was, kept a silent tongue&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1846" sha1="2pdvtxlqi9hyqhd1ey6lwce78jcipfw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;268 THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;along the eastern slopes of the Oscuros—a black wilderness of jagged iron rocks sentinelled by weird cactus shapes— they circled and quartered like foxhounds questing on a cold trail. They whipped the wild ravines of Chupadero Mesa. They searched among the ruins of the Gran Quivera. Turning south, they passed through the Thre Rivers country, traversed the Jornado del Muerto, explored the cafions and valleys of the Organ Mountains, and came at the end of a bootless hunt into Mesilla. Not a clue had they found, not a word had they heard of the Kid’s whereabouts. So, weary, discouraged, and 
bedraggled, they trooped back to Lincoln. The other posses reported equally unsuccessful results. But Garrett was not yet ready to give up. He had one more card to play. From the Mescalero reservation he summoned two Apache trailers, lithe, half-naked, moccasined fellows, famous among their people for skill in tracking game and men through trackless wastes. Given 
the direction of the Kid’s flight, these human sleuth hounds set out from Lincoln on foot. Along the sides of the road they worked slowly, patiently, their keen eyes scrutinizing every inch of ground, until they came to the 
trail that branched off to Baca Cafion. Here where the 
Kid had turned they turned also. Some sign that no 
white man could have detected—a stone streaked by the 
swift impact of a horseshoe, a weed broken at a certain 
height from the ground and at a certain angle, a hoofprint 
of more than usual depth—guided these savage trackers 
in the right direction. They broke into a dog-trot, crossed 
the Bonito, plunged into Baca Cafion. To Padilla’s 
ranch they came at length, led by what microscopic trail 
marks no man might know except themselves. Padilla, 
good friend of the Kid that he was, kept a silent tongue&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
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      <text bytes="1843" sha1="k9pzlgtuo07ujqxni730y6xpfu4pwma" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;268 THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;along the eastern slopes of the Oscuros—a black wilderness of jagged iron rocks sentinelled by weird cactus shapes— they circled and quartered like foxhounds questing on a cold trail. They whipped the wild ravines of Chupadero Mesa. They searched among the ruins of the Gran Quivera. Turning south, they passed through the Thre Rivers country, traversed the Jornado del Muerto, explored the cafions and valleys of the Organ Mountains, and came at the end of a bootless hunt into Mesilla. Not a clue had they found, not a word had they heard of the Kid’s whereabouts. So, weary, discouraged, and 
bedraggled, they trooped back to Lincoln. The other posses reported equally unsuccessful results. But Garrett was not yet ready to give up. He had one more card to play. From the Mescalero reservation he summoned two Apache trailers, lithe, half-naked, moccasined fellows, famous among their people for skill in tracking game and men through trackless wastes. Given 
the direction of the Kid’s flight, these human sleuth hounds set out from Lincoln on foot. Along the sides of the road they worked slowly, patiently, their keen eyes scrutinizing every inch of ground, until they came to the trail that branched off to Baca Cafion. Here where the Kid had turned they turned also. Some sign that no white man could have detected—a stone streaked by the 
swift impact of a horseshoe, a weed broken at a certain 
height from the ground and at a certain angle, a hoofprint 
of more than usual depth—guided these savage trackers 
in the right direction. They broke into a dog-trot, crossed 
the Bonito, plunged into Baca Cafion. To Padilla’s 
ranch they came at length, led by what microscopic trail 
marks no man might know except themselves. Padilla, 
good friend of the Kid that he was, kept a silent tongue&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1836" sha1="j7zxrzritnik5k2mhmxkcbwl8cxhzsf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;268 THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;along the eastern slopes of the Oscuros—a black wilderness of jagged iron rocks sentinelled by weird cactus shapes— they circled and quartered like foxhounds questing on a cold trail. They whipped the wild ravines of Chupadero Mesa. They searched among the ruins of the Gran Quivera. Turning south, they passed through the Thre Rivers country, traversed the Jornado del Muerto, explored the cafions and valleys of the Organ Mountains, and came at the end of a bootless hunt into Mesilla. Not a clue had they found, not a word had they heard of the Kid’s whereabouts. So, weary, discouraged, and 
bedraggled, they trooped back to Lincoln. The other posses reported equally unsuccessful results. But Garrett was not yet ready to give up. He had one more card to play. From the Mescalero reservation he summoned two Apache trailers, lithe, half-naked, moccasined fellows, famous among their people for skill in tracking game and men through trackless wastes. Given 
the direction of the Kid’s flight, these human sleuth hounds set out from Lincoln on foot. Along the sides of the road they worked slowly, patiently, their keen eyes scrutinizing every inch of ground, until they came to the trail that branched off to Baca Cafion. Here where the Kid had turned they turned also. Some sign that no white man could have detected—a stone streaked by the swift impact of a horseshoe, a weed broken at a certain height from the ground and at a certain angle, a hoofprint of more than usual depth—guided these savage trackers in the right direction. They broke into a dog-trot, crossed the Bonito, plunged into Baca Cafion. To Padilla’s 
ranch they came at length, led by what microscopic trail marks no man might know except themselves. Padilla, good friend of the Kid that he was, kept a silent tongue&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/57</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131656</id>
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      <contributor>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="2342" sha1="fov8akfhvw4wvmikov7x0w17pk12e2m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|julius cæsar.}}|41}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|cular|particular}}. Accordingly, when his troops were in great alarm at the expected arrival of king Juba, he called them together, and said, &quot;I have to inform you that in a very few days the king will be here, with ten legions, thirty thousand horse, a hundred thousand light-armed foot, and three hundred elephants. Let none of you, therefore, presume to make further enquiry, or indulge in conjectures, but take my word for what I tell you, which I have from undoubted intelligence; otherwise I shall put them aboard an old crazy vessel, and leave them exposed to the mercy of the winds, to be transported to some other country.&quot;

LXVII. He neither noticed all their transgressions, nor punished them according to strict rule. But for deserters and mutineers he made the most diligent enquiry, and their punishment was most severe: other delinquencies he would connive at. Sometimes, after a great battle ending in victory, he would grant them a relaxation from all kinds of duty, and leave them to revel at pleasure; being used to boast, &quot;that his soldiers fought nothing the worse for being well oiled.&quot; In his speeches, he never addressed them by the title of &quot;Soldiers,&quot; but by the kinder phrase of &quot;Fellow-soldiers;&quot; and kept them in such splendid order, that their arms were ornamented with silver and gold, not merely for parade, but to render the soldiers more resolute to save them in battle, and fearful of losing them. He loved his troops to such a degree, that when he heard of the defeat of those under Titurius, he neither cut his hair nor shaved his beard, until he had revenged it upon the enemy; by which means he engaged their devoted affection, and raised their valour to the highest pitch.

LXVIII. Upon his entering on the civil war, the centurions of every legion offered, each of them, to maintain a horseman at his own expense, and the whole army agreed to serve gratis, without either corn or pay; those amongst them who were rich, charging themselves with the maintenance of the poor. No one of them, during the whole course of the war, deserted to the enemy; and many of those who were made prisoners, though they were offered their lives, upon condition of bearing arms against him, refused to accept the terms. They endured want, and other hardships, not only&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/283</title>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Lamin Bayo</username>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;in his head. Beyond his jacal, the Indians lost the scent. Turning back to Lincoln, they reported the trail was too old and too cold to follow. So the man-hunt ended and Garrett settled down to watch and wait. Sooner or later news would reach him. A rumour would come on the wind out of the dark. Something somewhere somehow would happen. In some lonely bar over the whisky glasses a tongue would wag. Out in the vagueness of the Southwest, a leaf would rust...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1745" sha1="d76xrxfb5thtb428jm4aidyr2v7fngu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
269&lt;/noinclude&gt;in his head. Beyond his jacal, the Indians lost the scent.
Turning back to Lincoln, they reported the trail was too old and too cold to follow. So the man-hunt ended and Garrett settled down to watch and wait. Sooner or later news would reach him. A rumour would come on the wind out of the dark. Something somewhere somehow would happen. In some lonely
bar over the whisky glasses a tongue would wag. Out in the vagueness of the Southwest, a leaf would rustle, a twig would crack. Abruptly the empty silence would find a voice. The Kid's hiding place would be betrayed. Sooner or later. But for the time being, the outlaw had
disappeared as if the mountains had opened and engulfed
him.
Poe, who had been appointed one of Garrett's deputies,
remained in White Oaks during May and June busy on
the Coughlin case. A remarkable man was Poe with a
record behind him and a future ahead. Standing more
than six feet in height, broad shouldered, and as straight
as a mountain pine, he was a determined, resourceful
man with courage and honesty clearly legible in his frank
face and clear blue eyes. A native of Kentucky, he had
lived in Texas since early manhood. As marshal of
Tascosa, hard-boiled cowboy capital of the Panhandle, he
had established a reputation for fearless performance of
duty. Stories of his exploits still linger along the Cana-
dian. When Jim Oglesby, bad man from the Indian
Nations, was painting the town, Poe, without drawing a
weapon, disarmed him in mid-rampage and led him off
tamely to the calaboose. When infuriated citizens
surrounded him and threatened to lynch a prisoner in
his custody, Poe, standing alone, drew his six-shooter and
told them they would have to kill him first and some of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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269&lt;/noinclude&gt;in his head. Beyond his jacal, the Indians lost the scent.
Turning back to Lincoln, they reported the trail was too old and too cold to follow. So the man-hunt ended and Garrett settled down to watch and wait. Sooner or later news would reach him. A rumour would come on the wind out of the dark. Something somewhere somehow would happen. In some lonely
bar over the whisky glasses a tongue would wag. Out in the vagueness of the Southwest, a leaf would rustle, a twig would crack. Abruptly the empty silence would find a voice. The Kid's hiding place would be betrayed. Sooner or later. But for the time being, the outlaw had disappeared as if the mountains had opened and engulfed him.
Poe, who had been appointed one of Garrett's deputies, remained in White Oaks during May and June busy on the Coughlin case. A remarkable man was Poe with a record behind him and a future ahead. Standing more than six feet in height, broad shouldered, and as straight as a mountain pine, he was a determined, resourceful man with courage and honesty clearly legible in his frank
face and clear blue eyes. A native of Kentucky, he had
lived in Texas since early manhood. As marshal of
Tascosa, hard-boiled cowboy capital of the Panhandle, he
had established a reputation for fearless performance of
duty. Stories of his exploits still linger along the Cana-
dian. When Jim Oglesby, bad man from the Indian
Nations, was painting the town, Poe, without drawing a
weapon, disarmed him in mid-rampage and led him off
tamely to the calaboose. When infuriated citizens
surrounded him and threatened to lynch a prisoner in
his custody, Poe, standing alone, drew his six-shooter and
told them they would have to kill him first and some of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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269&lt;/noinclude&gt;in his head. Beyond his jacal, the Indians lost the scent.
Turning back to Lincoln, they reported the trail was too old and too cold to follow. So the man-hunt ended and Garrett settled down to watch and wait. Sooner or later news would reach him. A rumour would come on the wind out of the dark. Something somewhere somehow would happen. In some lonely
bar over the whisky glasses a tongue would wag. Out in the vagueness of the Southwest, a leaf would rustle, a twig would crack. Abruptly the empty silence would find a voice. The Kid's hiding place would be betrayed. Sooner or later. But for the time being, the outlaw had disappeared as if the mountains had opened and engulfed him.
Poe, who had been appointed one of Garrett's deputies, remained in White Oaks during May and June busy on the Coughlin case. A remarkable man was Poe with a record behind him and a future ahead. Standing more than six feet in height, broad shouldered, and as straight as a mountain pine, he was a determined, resourceful man with courage and honesty clearly legible in his frank face and clear blue eyes. A native of Kentucky, he had lived in Texas since early manhood. As marshal of Tascosa, hard-boiled cowboy capital of the Panhandle, he had established a reputation for fearless performance of duty. Stories of his exploits still linger along the Canadian. When Jim Oglesby, bad man from the Indian
Nations, was painting the town, Poe, without drawing a weapon, disarmed him in mid-rampage and led him off tamely to the calaboose. When infuriated citizens surrounded him and threatened to lynch a prisoner in
his custody, Poe, standing alone, drew his six-shooter and
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269&lt;/noinclude&gt;in his head. Beyond his jacal, the Indians lost the scent.
Turning back to Lincoln, they reported the trail was too old and too cold to follow. So the man-hunt ended and Garrett settled down to watch and wait. Sooner or later news would reach him. A rumour would come on the wind out of the dark. Something somewhere somehow would happen. In some lonely
bar over the whisky glasses a tongue would wag. Out in the vagueness of the Southwest, a leaf would rustle, a twig would crack. Abruptly the empty silence would find a voice. The Kid's hiding place would be betrayed. Sooner or later. But for the time being, the outlaw had disappeared as if the mountains had opened and engulfed him.
Poe, who had been appointed one of Garrett's deputies, remained in White Oaks during May and June busy on the Coughlin case. A remarkable man was Poe with a record behind him and a future ahead. Standing more than six feet in height, broad shouldered, and as straight as a mountain pine, he was a determined, resourceful man with courage and honesty clearly legible in his frank face and clear blue eyes. A native of Kentucky, he had lived in Texas since early manhood. As marshal of Tascosa, hard-boiled cowboy capital of the Panhandle, he had established a reputation for fearless performance of duty. Stories of his exploits still linger along the Canadian. When Jim Oglesby, bad man from the Indian
Nations, was painting the town, Poe, without drawing a weapon, disarmed him in mid-rampage and led him off tamely to the calaboose. When infuriated citizens surrounded him and threatened to lynch a prisoner in his custody, Poe, standing alone, drew his six-shooter and told them they would have to kill him first and some of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1032" sha1="jzl3yh8bgpa58b0fwbc9rm54mxz859n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|219|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ameliorating their own sufferings or increasing their chance of recovery, which, indeed, in such cases, was hopeless. On the other hand, to leave them behind was abandoning them to the cruelty of the Turks, who always made it a rule to murder their prisoners with protracted torture. In this emergency, I submitted to Desgenettes the propriety of ending the misery of these victims by a dose of opium. I would have desired such a relief for myself under the same circumstances. I considered it would be an act of mercy to anticipate their fate by only a few hours, ensuring them an end free from pain, and oblivions of the horrors which surrounded and threatened them, rather than a death of dreadful torture. My physician did not enter into my views of the case, and disapproved of the proposal, saying, that his profession was to cure, not to kill. Accordingly I left a rear-guard to protect these unhappy men from the advancing&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;  ness. He became suddenly aware that he was the possessor of a dangerous secret. The thought troubled him. For Furs he tossed in nervous restlessness. It was not until the small hours of morning that he was able to fall asleep. Standing on the street next dav, Poe was speculating idly on the enigma of the Kid's disappearance. Garrett, it seemed, was right. The Kid by this time was doubtless safe across the border in Mexico. Well, at least he would not c...</comment>
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ness. He became suddenly aware that he was the possessor of a dangerous secret. The thought troubled him. For Furs he tossed in nervous restlessness. It was not until the small hours of morning that he was able to fall asleep. Standing on the street next dav, Poe was speculating idly on the enigma of the Kid's disappearance. Garrett, it seemed, was right. The Kid by this time was doubtless safe across the border in Mexico. Well, at least he would not come back to harry Canadian River herds. and Poe’s employers were as well off as though the Kid had been hanged. A trampish man slouched by. Poe rested a 
casual eye upon him. He had no idea who the fellow was. 
From the looks of him, he didn't care to know. Bur to 
Poe’s surprise, the seedy stranger flashed him a look of 
recognition and, with an almost imperceptible motion 
of the head, tipped him a signal to follow. Here was a 
mystery which at first glance did not seem intriguing. 
But Poe followed-—first to the edge of the town and then 
on a little way into the country. At a point in the road 
screened from observation by pifion trees, the vagabond 
turned and faced him. 
“Do you remember me?” he asked. 
Poe, after a moment’s scrutiny, shook kis head. 
“George Graham.” 
“Qh, yes,” answered Poe. “Back in Tascosa. Of 
course. How are you, George:” 
“Down and out. That's how I am. Which it's no 
use to tell you. You can see it.” 
“What’s the matter?” 
“This is what drink has done to a man who was once a 
fairly prosperous citizen. But I didn’t bring vou out 
here to tell you my trcubles. You were my friend in&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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ness. He became suddenly aware that he was the possessor of a dangerous secret. The thought troubled him. For Furs he tossed in nervous restlessness. It was not until the small hours of morning that he was able to fall asleep. Standing on the street next dav, Poe was speculating idly on the enigma of the Kid's disappearance. Garrett, it seemed, was right. The Kid by this time was doubtless safe across the border in Mexico. Well, at least he would not come back to harry Canadian River herds. and Poe’s employers were as well off as though the Kid had been hanged. A trampish man slouched by. Poe rested a 
casual eye upon him. He had no idea who the fellow was. From the looks of him, he didn't care to know. Bur to Poe’s surprise, the seedy stranger flashed him a look of recognition and, with an almost imperceptible motion of the head, tipped him a signal to follow. Here was a mystery which at first glance did not seem intriguing. But Poe followed-—first to the edge of the town and then on a little way into the country. At a point in the road screened from observation by pifion trees, the vagabond turned and faced him. 
“Do you remember me?” he asked. 
Poe, after a moment’s scrutiny, shook kis head. 
“George Graham.” 
“Qh, yes,” answered Poe. “Back in Tascosa. Of 
course. How are you, George:” 
“Down and out. That's how I am. Which it's no 
use to tell you. You can see it.” 
“What’s the matter?” 
“This is what drink has done to a man who was once a 
fairly prosperous citizen. But I didn’t bring vou out 
here to tell you my trcubles. You were my friend in&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131675</id>
      <parentid>15131672</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:07:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lamin Bayo</username>
        <id>3175909</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1635" sha1="06tydotax1597ybyptku5upp0veefxe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE 271&lt;/noinclude&gt; 
ness. He became suddenly aware that he was the possessor of a dangerous secret. The thought troubled him. For Furs he tossed in nervous restlessness. It was not until the small hours of morning that he was able to fall asleep. Standing on the street next dav, Poe was speculating idly on the enigma of the Kid's disappearance. Garrett, it seemed, was right. The Kid by this time was doubtless safe across the border in Mexico. Well, at least he would not come back to harry Canadian River herds. and Poe’s employers were as well off as though the Kid had been hanged. A trampish man slouched by. Poe rested a 
casual eye upon him. He had no idea who the fellow was. From the looks of him, he didn't care to know. Bur to Poe’s surprise, the seedy stranger flashed him a look of recognition and, with an almost imperceptible motion of the head, tipped him a signal to follow. Here was a mystery which at first glance did not seem intriguing. But Poe followed-—first to the edge of the town and then on a little way into the country. At a point in the road screened from observation by pifion trees, the vagabond turned and faced him. “Do you remember me?” he asked. Poe, after a moment’s scrutiny, shook kis head. 
“George Graham.” “Qh, yes,” answered Poe. “Back in Tascosa. Of 
course. How are you, George:” “Down and out. That's how I am. Which it's no use to tell you. You can see it.” 
“What’s the matter?” “This is what drink has done to a man who was once a fairly prosperous citizen. But I didn’t bring vou out here to tell you my trcubles. You were my friend in&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/49</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847375</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131671</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:06:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="825" sha1="idttcbo8tvw1f7tlqnhliqaz3czuj17" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|31}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Shut up, Mancini. Will you take care of him, Jackson.

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

I can.

{{c|{{sc|Polly}}}}

Do you like music? A Beethoven sonata played on a broom, for instance, or Mozart on a bottle?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Alas! No. But I will be exceedingly grateful if you will teach me. A clown! My childhood’s dream. When all my school friends were thrilled by Plutarch’s heroes, or the light of science—I dreamed of clowns. Beethoven on a broom, Mozart on bottles! Just what I have sought all my life! Friends, I must have a costume!

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

I see you don’t know much! A costume [''putting his finger on his forehead''] is a thing which calls for deep thought. Have you seen my Sun here? [''Strikes his posterior''.] I looked for it two years.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:NBS Circular 553.djvu/121</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847376</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131674</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:06:49Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="5883" sha1="flb6qm1ti508f5vgidi3elron2ituwb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Gold, Amber (see Amber Gold)||P
Gold, Antique (see Antique Gold)||M, T
Gold, Autumn (see Autumn Gold)||P
Bright Gold.||T||v.Y 82, s.Y 84, deep Y 85
Gold, Bronze (see Bronze Gold)||P
Gold, Burmese (see Burmese Gold)||M
Gold, Burnished (see Burnished Gold)||M
Gold, California (see California Gold)||P
Gold, Chinese (see Chinese Gold)||M
Gold, Coral (see Coral Gold)||P
Gold, Cream (see Cream Gold)||P
Dull Gold||T||l.OlBr 94, l.0l 106, m.Ol 107
Gold, Fairy (see Fairy Gold)||P
Gold, Florida (see Florida Gold)||M
Gold, Glint O' (see Glint O'Gold)||M, P
Gold, Harvest (see Harvest Gold)||P
Gold, Honey (see Honey Gold)||T
Gold, Inca (see Inca Gold)||M
Light Gold||T||brill. Y 83, s.Y 84, m.Y 87
Gold, Light Antique (see Light Antique Gold)||T
Gold, Mustard (see Mustard Gold)||T
Gold, Nugget (see Nugget Gold)|T, TC
Gold, Old (see Old Gold)||M, P, R, T, TC
Gold, Powdered (see Powdered Gold)||M
Gold, Spanish (see Spanish Gold)||P
Gold, Titian (see Titian Gold)||M
Gold, Zinnia (see Zinnia Gold)||P
Gold Bronze||M||gy.Br 61, gy.yBr 80
{{ts|pl1}}|Vienna Brown
Gold Brown||M||s.Br 55
|{{ts|pl1}}Golden Brown
Gold Brown||TC||bro 54, s.Br 55
Gold Coast||P||d.Y 88
Gold Earth (same as Yelow Ochre)||M||m.OY 71
Golden (same as Blond)||M (13G6)||l.yBr 76, d.gy.Y 91
Golden (same as Gold)||M (14K7)||l.OlBr 94
Golden Apricot||P||l.O 52, m.O 53
|Golden Brown (same as Gold Brown)||M||s.Br 55
Golden Brown (same as Cinnamon)||P||brO 54
Golden Brown||T||s.yBr 74, deep yBr 75, m.yBr 77
Golden Buff||P||l.Y 86
Golden Chestnut (same as Pecan Brown)||M||m.Br 58
Golden Coral||P||s.yPk 26
Golden Corn||M||m.OY 71
Golden Cream||P||lY 86
Golden Dawn||P||l.Y 86
Golden Feather Yellow (same as Pyrethrum Yellow)||M||brill. Y 83, s.Y 84, l.Y 86, m.Y 87 
Golden Fleece||P||p.OY 73, p.Y 89, gy.Y 90
Golden Gem||P||l.Y 86
Golden Glow||M||m.OY 71, s.Y 84
Golden Glow||P||brill. Y 83
Golden Green (same as Cloudy Amber)||M||gy.Y 90, d.gy.Y 91
Golden Mist||P||gy.gY 105, l.YG 119, p.YG 121
Golden Ochre (same as Doubloon)||M||m.O 53
Golden Olive||T||l.Ol 106, m.Ol 107
Golden Orange (USA)||TC||s.O 50
Golden Peach||P||m.OY 71
Golden Poppy||M||v.rO 34
{{ts|pl1}}|Persian Yellow
Golden Poppy||TC||v.ro 34
Golden Rapture||P||brill. Y 83
Golden Ray||P||brill. Y 83, l.Y 86
Golden Rod||M||s.Y 84
{{ts|pl1}}|Primuline Yellow, Vitelline Yellow, Vitellinous, Yolk Yellow||T
Golden Rod||P||brill. Y 83
Goldenrod||P||v.Y 82
Golden Sheaf||T||p.Y 89
Golden Sulphur||P||l.gY 101
Golden Tan||P||m.O 53
Golden West||P||d.OY 72
Golden Wheat||M||m.OY 71
Golden Yellow||M (10L7)||s.OY 68, m.OY 71
{{ts|pl1}}|Gild, Gilded, Gilt, Gold Yellow, Spanish Yellow
Golden Yellow (same as Antique Gold)||M (12L8)||d.OY 72, s.yBr 74
Golden Yellow||P||l.Y 86
Golden Yellow||T||v.Y 82, s.Y 84
Golden Yellow (USA)||TC||v.Y 82
Gold Fantasy||P||brill.Y 83
Gold Glow||P||lgY 101, p.gY 104
Gold Leaf||M||m.O 53, d.OY 72
Goldmist||TC||gy.Y 90
Gold Ochre (same as Doubloon)||M||m.O 53
Transparent Gold Ochre (same as Yucatan)||M||brO 54, s.yBr 74
Gold Pheasant||M||brO 54
{{ts|pl1}}|Platina Yellow, Prussian Brown
Gold Rush||P||m.OY 71
Gold Yellow (same as Golden Yellow)||M||s.OY 68, m.OY 71
Golf Green||M||d.yG 137
Golf [Red] (same as Blood Red)||M||s.R 12, m.R 15
Good Omen||P (588)||l.V 210
Good Omen||P (733)||l.B 181
Gooseberry||M||d.pR 259
Gooseberry Green||M||m.yG 136
Goose Grey (same as Elk)||M||d.gy.yBr 81
Gorevan (same as Auburn)||M||m.Br 58
Gorge||P||l.gGy 154, l.Gy 264
Goura||M||d.gy.P 229
Government Wall Green (PBS) (same as Spring Green (Eng))||gy.YG 122
Goya||F||s.R 12
{{ts|pl1}}|Cadmium Carmine, Currant [Red], English Vermilion, Kinema Red, Orient Red, Oriental Red
Gracious Green||P||v.p.G 148
Grain||M (11B5)||p.OY 73, l.yBr 76
{{ts|pl1}}|Pâté Shell
Grain||M||(13B5)||l.gy.yBr 79
{ts|pl1}}|Mavis, Pecan
grain, in grain (Kermes dye)||M||v.R 11
{{{ts|pl1}}|Grayn, Greyn
Granada.||M||d.gy.rBr 47, d.gy.Br 62
{{ts|pl1}}|Armada, Morro, Solitare
Granat (same as Ponceau)||M||v.R 11, v.rO 34
Granatflower (same as Ponceau)||M||v.R 11, v.rO 34
Grand Canyon||P||l.rBr 42, l.Br 57
Granite (same as Metallic Grey)||M||pGy 233
Granite Blue (same as Moonbeam)||M||l.Gy 264
Granite Blue||P||gy.B 186
Granite Green||P||p.G 149
Grape||M||d.V 212
{{ts|pl1}}|Cathedral, Plum Purple
Grape||P||d.V 212, d.gy.P 229
Grape Blue||M||d.V 212
{{ts|pl1}}|Flag
Grapefruit||M||m.gY 102
Grapefruit Green||P||brill.gY 98, s.gY 99, l.gY 101, m.gY 102
Grape Green||M||l.Ol 106
Grape Green||R||m.YG 120
Deep Grape Green||R||m.YG 120, gy.YG 122
Light Grape Green||R||m.YG 120
Grapejuice||M||deep P 219
{{ts|pl1}}|Fireweed
Grapenuts (same as Terrapin)||M||m.Br 58
Grape Wine||T||d.gy.P 229, d.rP 242, v.d.rP 243, v.d.pR 260
Graphite||M||d.gy.P 229, Black 267
Graphite||T||gy.B 186, d.gy.B 187
Graphite Blue||TC|| d.gy.B 187, blackish B 188, d.pB 201, gy.pB 204
Grass, Blue (see Blue Grass)||M
Grass, Green (see Green Grass)||P
Grass Green||M||m.YG 120
{{ts|pl1}}|Lawn Green, Tapis vert, Terrasse Green
Grass Green||R||m.YG 120
Grass Green||T||s.yG 131, m.yG 136,d.yG 137
Dark Grass Green||T||d.yG 137
Deep Grass Green||T||deep yG 132, m.yG 136
Light Grass Green||T||s.yG 131
Grasshopper||M||m.YG 120
Gravel||M||l.gy.yBr 79
{{ts|pl1}}|Meerschaum
Gravel||P||brPk 33, l.gy.yBr 79, yGy 93
Gray||A||l.Gy 264, med.Gy 265, d.Gy 266
Gray #7 (PC)||F 1635||l.gy. Ol 109, l.OlGY 112
Gray #12 (PC)||F 1655|||yGy 93
Gray (PBS) (same as Light Gray (USA 124))||F 1640||med.Gy 265
Gray (PBS)||F 1660||gy.Y 90
Gray (PBS)||F 3640||yGy 93
Gray||MUP||med.Gy 265
Gray||S||yGy 93, l.OlGy 112, p.G 149, l.gGy 154, gGy 155, d.gGy 156, bWhite 189, d.bGy 192, l.pGy 232, l.Gy 264, med.Gy 265
Gray||SC||l.brGy 63, l.OlGy 112, med.Gy 265
Gray||T||med.Gy 265, d.Gy 266
Gray, Acacia (see Acacia Gray)||P
Gray, Aircraft (see Aircraft Gray)||F
Gray, Aqua (see Aqua Gray)||P, T
Gray, Battleship (see Battleship Gray)||F
Gray, Bayberry (see Bayberry Gray)||T
Gray, Beaver (see Beaver Gray)||T&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131693</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:18:02Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="6555" sha1="onjb6se7v4flhmq1vmt7s2u7cmfaxzf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;{|&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|-
|Gold, Amber (see Amber Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Antique (see Antique Gold)||M, T
|-
|Gold, Autumn (see Autumn Gold)||P
|-
|Bright Gold.||T||v.Y 82, s.Y 84, deep Y 85
|-
|Gold, Bronze (see Bronze Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Burmese (see Burmese Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, Burnished (see Burnished Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, California (see California Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Chinese (see Chinese Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, Coral (see Coral Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Cream (see Cream Gold)||P
|-
|Dull Gold||T||l.OlBr 94, l.0l 106, m.Ol 107
|-
|Gold, Fairy (see Fairy Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Florida (see Florida Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, Glint O' (see Glint O'Gold)||M, P
|-
|Gold, Harvest (see Harvest Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Honey (see Honey Gold)||T
|-
|Gold, Inca (see Inca Gold)||M
|-
|Light Gold||T||brill. Y 83, s.Y 84, m.Y 87
|-
|Gold, Light Antique (see Light Antique Gold)||T
|-
|Gold, Mustard (see Mustard Gold)||T
|-
|Gold, Nugget (see Nugget Gold)|T, TC
|-
|Gold, Old (see Old Gold)||M, P, R, T, TC
|-
|Gold, Powdered (see Powdered Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, Spanish (see Spanish Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Titian (see Titian Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, Zinnia (see Zinnia Gold)||P
|-
|Gold Bronze||M||gy.Br 61, gy.yBr 80
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Vienna Brown
|-
|Gold Brown||M||s.Br 55
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}Golden Brown
|-
|Gold Brown||TC||bro 54, s.Br 55
|-
|Gold Coast||P||d.Y 88
|-
|Gold Earth (same as Yelow Ochre)||M||m.OY 71
|-
|Golden (same as Blond)||M (13G6)||l.yBr 76, d.gy.Y 91
|-
|Golden (same as Gold)||M (14K7)||l.OlBr 94
|-
|Golden Apricot||P||l.O 52, m.O 53
|-
|Golden Brown (same as Gold Brown)||M||s.Br 55
|-
|Golden Brown (same as Cinnamon)||P||brO 54
|-
|Golden Brown||T||s.yBr 74, deep yBr 75, m.yBr 77
|-
|Golden Buff||P||l.Y 86
|-
|Golden Chestnut (same as Pecan Brown)||M||m.Br 58
|-
|Golden Coral||P||s.yPk 26
|-
|Golden Corn||M||m.OY 71
|-
|Golden Cream||P||lY 86
|-
|Golden Dawn||P||l.Y 86
|-
|Golden Feather Yellow (same as Pyrethrum Yellow)||M||brill. Y 83, s.Y 84, l.Y 86, m.Y 87 
|-
|Golden Fleece||P||p.OY 73, p.Y 89, gy.Y 90
|-
|Golden Gem||P||l.Y 86
|-
|Golden Glow||M||m.OY 71, s.Y 84
|-
|Golden Glow||P||brill. Y 83
|-
|Golden Green (same as Cloudy Amber)||M||gy.Y 90, d.gy.Y 91
|-
|Golden Mist||P||gy.gY 105, l.YG 119, p.YG 121
|-
|Golden Ochre (same as Doubloon)||M||m.O 53
|-
|Golden Olive||T||l.Ol 106, m.Ol 107
|-
|Golden Orange (USA)||TC||s.O 50
|-
|Golden Peach||P||m.OY 71
|-
|Golden Poppy||M||v.rO 34
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Persian Yellow
|-
|Golden Poppy||TC||v.ro 34
|-
|Golden Rapture||P||brill. Y 83
|-
|Golden Ray||P||brill. Y 83, l.Y 86
|-
|Golden Rod||M||s.Y 84
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Primuline Yellow, Vitelline Yellow, Vitellinous, Yolk Yellow||T
|-
|Golden Rod||P||brill. Y 83
|-
|Goldenrod||P||v.Y 82
|-
|Golden Sheaf||T||p.Y 89
|-
|Golden Sulphur||P||l.gY 101
|-
|Golden Tan||P||m.O 53
|-
|Golden West||P||d.OY 72
|-
|Golden Wheat||M||m.OY 71
|-
|Golden Yellow||M (10L7)||s.OY 68, m.OY 71
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Gild, Gilded, Gilt, Gold Yellow, Spanish Yellow
|-
|Golden Yellow (same as Antique Gold)||M (12L8)||d.OY 72, s.yBr 74
|-
|Golden Yellow||P||l.Y 86
|-
|Golden Yellow||T||v.Y 82, s.Y 84
|-
|Golden Yellow (USA)||TC||v.Y 82
|-
|Gold Fantasy||P||brill.Y 83
|-
|Gold Glow||P||lgY 101, p.gY 104
|-
|Gold Leaf||M||m.O 53, d.OY 72
|-
|Goldmist||TC||gy.Y 90
|-
|Gold Ochre (same as Doubloon)||M||m.O 53
|-
|Transparent Gold Ochre (same as Yucatan)||M||brO 54, s.yBr 74
|-
|Gold Pheasant||M||brO 54
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Platina Yellow, Prussian Brown
|-
|Gold Rush||P||m.OY 71
|-
|Gold Yellow (same as Golden Yellow)||M||s.OY 68, m.OY 71
|-
|Golf Green||M||d.yG 137
|-
|Golf [Red] (same as Blood Red)||M||s.R 12, m.R 15
|-
|Good Omen||P (588)||l.V 210
|-
|Good Omen||P (733)||l.B 181
|-
|Gooseberry||M||d.pR 259
|-
|Gooseberry Green||M||m.yG 136
|-
|Goose Grey (same as Elk)||M||d.gy.yBr 81
|-
|Gorevan (same as Auburn)||M||m.Br 58
|-
|Gorge||P||l.gGy 154, l.Gy 264
|-
|Goura||M||d.gy.P 229
|-
|Government Wall Green (PBS) (same as Spring Green (Eng))||gy.YG 122
|-
|Goya||F||s.R 12
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Cadmium Carmine, Currant [Red], English Vermilion, Kinema Red, Orient Red, Oriental Red
|-
|Gracious Green||P||v.p.G 148
|-
|Grain||M (11B5)||p.OY 73, l.yBr 76
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Pâté Shell
|-
|Grain||M (13B5)||l.gy.yBr 79
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Mavis, Pecan
|-
|grain, in grain (Kermes dye)||M||v.R 11
|-
|{{{ts|pl1}}|Grayn, Greyn
|-
|Granada.||M||d.gy.rBr 47, d.gy.Br 62
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Armada, Morro, Solitare
|-
|Granat (same as Ponceau)||M||v.R 11, v.rO 34
|-
|Granatflower (same as Ponceau)||M||v.R 11, v.rO 34
|-
|Grand Canyon||P||l.rBr 42, l.Br 57
|-
|Granite (same as Metallic Grey)||M||pGy 233
|-
|Granite Blue (same as Moonbeam)||M||l.Gy 264
|-
|Granite Blue||P||gy.B 186
|-
|Granite Green||P||p.G 149
|-
|Grape||M||d.V 212
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Cathedral, Plum Purple
|-
|Grape||P||d.V 212, d.gy.P 229
|-
|Grape Blue||M||d.V 212
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Flag
|-
|Grapefruit||M||m.gY 102
|-
|Grapefruit Green||P||brill.gY 98, s.gY 99, l.gY 101, m.gY 102
|-
|Grape Green||M||l.Ol 106
|-
|Grape Green||R||m.YG 120
|-
|Deep Grape Green||R||m.YG 120, gy.YG 122
|-
|Light Grape Green||R||m.YG 120
|-
|Grapejuice||M||deep P 219
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Fireweed
|-
|Grapenuts (same as Terrapin)||M||m.Br 58
|-
|Grape Wine||T||d.gy.P 229, d.rP 242, v.d.rP 243, v.d.pR 260
|-
|Graphite||M||d.gy.P 229, Black 267
|-
|Graphite||T||gy.B 186, d.gy.B 187
|-
|Graphite Blue||TC|| d.gy.B 187, blackish B 188, d.pB 201, gy.pB 204
|-
|Grass, Blue (see Blue Grass)||M
|-
|Grass, Green (see Green Grass)||P
|-
|Grass Green||M||m.YG 120
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Lawn Green, Tapis vert, Terrasse Green
|-
|Grass Green||R||m.YG 120
|-
|Grass Green||T||s.yG 131, m.yG 136,d.yG 137
|-
|Dark Grass Green||T||d.yG 137
|-
|Deep Grass Green||T||deep yG 132, m.yG 136
|-
|Light Grass Green||T||s.yG 131
|-
|Grasshopper||M||m.YG 120
|-
|Gravel||M||l.gy.yBr 79
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Meerschaum
|-
|Gravel||P||brPk 33, l.gy.yBr 79, yGy 93
|-
|Gray||A||l.Gy 264, med.Gy 265, d.Gy 266
|-
|Gray #7 (PC)||F 1635||l.gy. Ol 109, l.OlGY 112
|-
|Gray #12 (PC)||F 1655|||yGy 93
|-
|Gray (PBS) (same as Light Gray (USA 124))||F 1640||med.Gy 265
|-
|Gray (PBS)||F 1660||gy.Y 90
|-
|Gray (PBS)||F 3640||yGy 93
|-
|Gray||MUP||med.Gy 265
|-
|Gray||S||yGy 93, l.OlGy 112, p.G 149, l.gGy 154, gGy 155, d.gGy 156, bWhite 189, d.bGy 192, l.pGy 232, l.Gy 264, med.Gy 265
|-
|Gray||SC||l.brGy 63, l.OlGy 112, med.Gy 265
|-
|Gray||T||med.Gy 265, d.Gy 266
|-
|Gray, Acacia (see Acacia Gray)||P
|-
|Gray, Aircraft (see Aircraft Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Aqua (see Aqua Gray)||P, T
|-
|Gray, Battleship (see Battleship Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Bayberry (see Bayberry Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Beaver (see Beaver Gray)||T&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131694</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:18:39Z</timestamp>
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        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
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      <text bytes="6556" sha1="051yro8c8wdijz6r1o2fej002eyz8xv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;{|&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|-
|Gold, Amber (see Amber Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Antique (see Antique Gold)||M, T
|-
|Gold, Autumn (see Autumn Gold)||P
|-
|Bright Gold.||T||v.Y 82, s.Y 84, deep Y 85
|-
|Gold, Bronze (see Bronze Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Burmese (see Burmese Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, Burnished (see Burnished Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, California (see California Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Chinese (see Chinese Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, Coral (see Coral Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Cream (see Cream Gold)||P
|-
|Dull Gold||T||l.OlBr 94, l.0l 106, m.Ol 107
|-
|Gold, Fairy (see Fairy Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Florida (see Florida Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, Glint O' (see Glint O'Gold)||M, P
|-
|Gold, Harvest (see Harvest Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Honey (see Honey Gold)||T
|-
|Gold, Inca (see Inca Gold)||M
|-
|Light Gold||T||brill. Y 83, s.Y 84, m.Y 87
|-
|Gold, Light Antique (see Light Antique Gold)||T
|-
|Gold, Mustard (see Mustard Gold)||T
|-
|Gold, Nugget (see Nugget Gold)||T, TC
|-
|Gold, Old (see Old Gold)||M, P, R, T, TC
|-
|Gold, Powdered (see Powdered Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, Spanish (see Spanish Gold)||P
|-
|Gold, Titian (see Titian Gold)||M
|-
|Gold, Zinnia (see Zinnia Gold)||P
|-
|Gold Bronze||M||gy.Br 61, gy.yBr 80
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Vienna Brown
|-
|Gold Brown||M||s.Br 55
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}Golden Brown
|-
|Gold Brown||TC||bro 54, s.Br 55
|-
|Gold Coast||P||d.Y 88
|-
|Gold Earth (same as Yelow Ochre)||M||m.OY 71
|-
|Golden (same as Blond)||M (13G6)||l.yBr 76, d.gy.Y 91
|-
|Golden (same as Gold)||M (14K7)||l.OlBr 94
|-
|Golden Apricot||P||l.O 52, m.O 53
|-
|Golden Brown (same as Gold Brown)||M||s.Br 55
|-
|Golden Brown (same as Cinnamon)||P||brO 54
|-
|Golden Brown||T||s.yBr 74, deep yBr 75, m.yBr 77
|-
|Golden Buff||P||l.Y 86
|-
|Golden Chestnut (same as Pecan Brown)||M||m.Br 58
|-
|Golden Coral||P||s.yPk 26
|-
|Golden Corn||M||m.OY 71
|-
|Golden Cream||P||lY 86
|-
|Golden Dawn||P||l.Y 86
|-
|Golden Feather Yellow (same as Pyrethrum Yellow)||M||brill. Y 83, s.Y 84, l.Y 86, m.Y 87 
|-
|Golden Fleece||P||p.OY 73, p.Y 89, gy.Y 90
|-
|Golden Gem||P||l.Y 86
|-
|Golden Glow||M||m.OY 71, s.Y 84
|-
|Golden Glow||P||brill. Y 83
|-
|Golden Green (same as Cloudy Amber)||M||gy.Y 90, d.gy.Y 91
|-
|Golden Mist||P||gy.gY 105, l.YG 119, p.YG 121
|-
|Golden Ochre (same as Doubloon)||M||m.O 53
|-
|Golden Olive||T||l.Ol 106, m.Ol 107
|-
|Golden Orange (USA)||TC||s.O 50
|-
|Golden Peach||P||m.OY 71
|-
|Golden Poppy||M||v.rO 34
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Persian Yellow
|-
|Golden Poppy||TC||v.ro 34
|-
|Golden Rapture||P||brill. Y 83
|-
|Golden Ray||P||brill. Y 83, l.Y 86
|-
|Golden Rod||M||s.Y 84
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Primuline Yellow, Vitelline Yellow, Vitellinous, Yolk Yellow||T
|-
|Golden Rod||P||brill. Y 83
|-
|Goldenrod||P||v.Y 82
|-
|Golden Sheaf||T||p.Y 89
|-
|Golden Sulphur||P||l.gY 101
|-
|Golden Tan||P||m.O 53
|-
|Golden West||P||d.OY 72
|-
|Golden Wheat||M||m.OY 71
|-
|Golden Yellow||M (10L7)||s.OY 68, m.OY 71
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Gild, Gilded, Gilt, Gold Yellow, Spanish Yellow
|-
|Golden Yellow (same as Antique Gold)||M (12L8)||d.OY 72, s.yBr 74
|-
|Golden Yellow||P||l.Y 86
|-
|Golden Yellow||T||v.Y 82, s.Y 84
|-
|Golden Yellow (USA)||TC||v.Y 82
|-
|Gold Fantasy||P||brill.Y 83
|-
|Gold Glow||P||lgY 101, p.gY 104
|-
|Gold Leaf||M||m.O 53, d.OY 72
|-
|Goldmist||TC||gy.Y 90
|-
|Gold Ochre (same as Doubloon)||M||m.O 53
|-
|Transparent Gold Ochre (same as Yucatan)||M||brO 54, s.yBr 74
|-
|Gold Pheasant||M||brO 54
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Platina Yellow, Prussian Brown
|-
|Gold Rush||P||m.OY 71
|-
|Gold Yellow (same as Golden Yellow)||M||s.OY 68, m.OY 71
|-
|Golf Green||M||d.yG 137
|-
|Golf [Red] (same as Blood Red)||M||s.R 12, m.R 15
|-
|Good Omen||P (588)||l.V 210
|-
|Good Omen||P (733)||l.B 181
|-
|Gooseberry||M||d.pR 259
|-
|Gooseberry Green||M||m.yG 136
|-
|Goose Grey (same as Elk)||M||d.gy.yBr 81
|-
|Gorevan (same as Auburn)||M||m.Br 58
|-
|Gorge||P||l.gGy 154, l.Gy 264
|-
|Goura||M||d.gy.P 229
|-
|Government Wall Green (PBS) (same as Spring Green (Eng))||gy.YG 122
|-
|Goya||F||s.R 12
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Cadmium Carmine, Currant [Red], English Vermilion, Kinema Red, Orient Red, Oriental Red
|-
|Gracious Green||P||v.p.G 148
|-
|Grain||M (11B5)||p.OY 73, l.yBr 76
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Pâté Shell
|-
|Grain||M (13B5)||l.gy.yBr 79
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Mavis, Pecan
|-
|grain, in grain (Kermes dye)||M||v.R 11
|-
|{{{ts|pl1}}|Grayn, Greyn
|-
|Granada.||M||d.gy.rBr 47, d.gy.Br 62
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Armada, Morro, Solitare
|-
|Granat (same as Ponceau)||M||v.R 11, v.rO 34
|-
|Granatflower (same as Ponceau)||M||v.R 11, v.rO 34
|-
|Grand Canyon||P||l.rBr 42, l.Br 57
|-
|Granite (same as Metallic Grey)||M||pGy 233
|-
|Granite Blue (same as Moonbeam)||M||l.Gy 264
|-
|Granite Blue||P||gy.B 186
|-
|Granite Green||P||p.G 149
|-
|Grape||M||d.V 212
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Cathedral, Plum Purple
|-
|Grape||P||d.V 212, d.gy.P 229
|-
|Grape Blue||M||d.V 212
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Flag
|-
|Grapefruit||M||m.gY 102
|-
|Grapefruit Green||P||brill.gY 98, s.gY 99, l.gY 101, m.gY 102
|-
|Grape Green||M||l.Ol 106
|-
|Grape Green||R||m.YG 120
|-
|Deep Grape Green||R||m.YG 120, gy.YG 122
|-
|Light Grape Green||R||m.YG 120
|-
|Grapejuice||M||deep P 219
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Fireweed
|-
|Grapenuts (same as Terrapin)||M||m.Br 58
|-
|Grape Wine||T||d.gy.P 229, d.rP 242, v.d.rP 243, v.d.pR 260
|-
|Graphite||M||d.gy.P 229, Black 267
|-
|Graphite||T||gy.B 186, d.gy.B 187
|-
|Graphite Blue||TC|| d.gy.B 187, blackish B 188, d.pB 201, gy.pB 204
|-
|Grass, Blue (see Blue Grass)||M
|-
|Grass, Green (see Green Grass)||P
|-
|Grass Green||M||m.YG 120
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Lawn Green, Tapis vert, Terrasse Green
|-
|Grass Green||R||m.YG 120
|-
|Grass Green||T||s.yG 131, m.yG 136,d.yG 137
|-
|Dark Grass Green||T||d.yG 137
|-
|Deep Grass Green||T||deep yG 132, m.yG 136
|-
|Light Grass Green||T||s.yG 131
|-
|Grasshopper||M||m.YG 120
|-
|Gravel||M||l.gy.yBr 79
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Meerschaum
|-
|Gravel||P||brPk 33, l.gy.yBr 79, yGy 93
|-
|Gray||A||l.Gy 264, med.Gy 265, d.Gy 266
|-
|Gray #7 (PC)||F 1635||l.gy. Ol 109, l.OlGY 112
|-
|Gray #12 (PC)||F 1655|||yGy 93
|-
|Gray (PBS) (same as Light Gray (USA 124))||F 1640||med.Gy 265
|-
|Gray (PBS)||F 1660||gy.Y 90
|-
|Gray (PBS)||F 3640||yGy 93
|-
|Gray||MUP||med.Gy 265
|-
|Gray||S||yGy 93, l.OlGy 112, p.G 149, l.gGy 154, gGy 155, d.gGy 156, bWhite 189, d.bGy 192, l.pGy 232, l.Gy 264, med.Gy 265
|-
|Gray||SC||l.brGy 63, l.OlGy 112, med.Gy 265
|-
|Gray||T||med.Gy 265, d.Gy 266
|-
|Gray, Acacia (see Acacia Gray)||P
|-
|Gray, Aircraft (see Aircraft Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Aqua (see Aqua Gray)||P, T
|-
|Gray, Battleship (see Battleship Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Bayberry (see Bayberry Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Beaver (see Beaver Gray)||T&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/58</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847377</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131676</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:07:22Z</timestamp>
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        <id>3137028</id>
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      <text bytes="2389" sha1="cb0pgiuhsgkjlphs6z92jxstg29djf0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|42|{{sc|suetonius.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;when they were besieged themselves, but when they besieged others, to such a degree, that Pompey, when blocked up in the neighbourhood of Dyrrachium, upon seeing a sort of bread made of an herb, which they lived upon, said, &quot;I have to do with wild beasts,&quot; and ordered it immediately to be taken away; because, if his troops should see it, their spirit might be broken by perceiving the endurance and determined resolution of the enemy. With what bravery they fought, one instance affords sufficient proof; which is, that after an unsuccessful engagement at Dyrrachium, they called for punishment; insomuch that their general found it more necessary to comfort than to punish them. In other battles, in different quarters, they defeated with ease immense armies of the enemy, although they were much inferior to them in number. In short, one cohort of the sixth legion held out a fort against four legions belonging to Pompey, during several hours; being almost every one of them wounded by the vast number of arrows discharged against them, and of which there were found within the ramparts a hundred and thirty thousand. This is no way surprising, when we consider the conduct of some individuals amongst them; such as that of Cassius Scæva, a centurion, or Caius Acilius, a common soldier, not to speak of others. Scæva, after having an eye struck out, being run through the thigh and the shoulder, and having his shield pierced in an hundred and twenty places, maintained obstinately the guard of the gate of a fort, with the command of which he was intrusted. Acilius, in the sea-fight at Marseilles, having seized a ship of the enemy's with his right hand, and that being cut off, in imitation of that memorable instance of resolution in Cynægirus amongst the Greeks, boarded the enemy's ship, bearing down all before him with the boss of his shield.

LXIX. They never once mutinied during all the ten years of the Gallic war, but were sometimes refractory in the course of the civil war. However, they always returned quickly to their duty, and that not through the indulgence, but in submission to the authority, of their general; for he never yielded to them when they were insubordinate, but constantly resisted their demands. He disbanded the whole ninth legion with ignominy at Placentia, although Pompey was still in arms, and would&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/50</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
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      <text bytes="694" sha1="aklofcz8rpcv19hq17vzkxqe48gn4fh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|32|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Enthusiastically'']: I shall think!

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

It is time for me to go. Consuelo, my child, you must get dressed. [''To HE''.] We are lunching with Baron Regnard, a friend of mine, a banker.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

But I don’t want to go, Daddy. Alfred says I must rehearse to-day.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

[''Horrified, holding up his hands]'': Child, think of me, and what a situation you put me in! I promised the Baron, the Baron expects us. Why, it is impossible! Oh, I am in a cold sweat.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Alfred says{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

[''Drily'']: She has to work. Are you rested? Then come on.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/51</title>
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      <text bytes="1021" sha1="g81r6bl0skcgg3ww0zbg0imprb3hgal" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|33}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

But—the devil take me if I know what to make of it. Hey, Bezano, bareback rider! Are you crazy? I gave you permission for Art’s sake, to exercise my daughter’s talent—and you{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Go along, Papa, and don’t be so silly. We’ve got to work, haven’t we? Have lunch along with your Baron. And Daddy, you forgot to take a clean handkerchief again, and I washed two for you yesterday. Where did you put them?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

[''Ashamed, blushing'']: Why, my linen is washed by the laundress, and you, Consuelo, are still playing with toys. It is stupid! You’re a chatter-box. You don’t think. These gentlemen might imagine Heaven knows what. How stupid. I’m off.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Do you want me to write him a little note?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

[''Angrily'']: A little note? Your little notes would make a horse laugh! Good-bye.

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''He goes out toying angrily with his cane. The''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/52</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847380</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131682</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:11:32Z</timestamp>
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        <id>3239</id>
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      <text bytes="751" sha1="ai8qc4ce8c9qhre2ujbluokhqbad7nu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|34|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}

{{dent/m|2em|-2em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''clowns follow him respectfully, playing a funeral march. HE and Jackson laugh. The actors disappear one by one''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Laughing'']: Do I really write so badly? And I love so to write. Did you like my note, Alfred—or did you laugh, too?

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

[''Blushing'']: No, I did not. Come on, Consuelo.

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''They go, and meet'' {{sc|Zinida}}, ''entering. Consuelo passes on''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Are you going back to work, Bezano?

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

[''Politely'']: Yes. To-day is a very bad day. How are your lions, Zinida? I think the weather affects them.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''From the ring'']: Alfred!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/180</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131683</id>
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      <text bytes="1884" sha1="1qfjzj3e08x1fs0sbz7w26tldysbbd9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|174|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;over the page like something bewitched. It could not move fast enough to empty her heart of all she had to tell. If she could only make clear to him that she had &quot;chastened&quot; him because she loved him. How patronizing, how silly she had been. She said aloud, &quot;How he and Maggie must have laughed at me, setting myself up above them and their ideas as though I were some goddess! Oh, God, why did you let me do it? You knew what I really meant.&quot;

Her tears almost blotted out her words.

The post-office was a mile away but she trudged the distance mechanically, seeing nothing, hearing nothing, absorbed. and drowned in the black sorrow which overwhelmed her.

Peter's answer, which came in four days, brought no solace. She had never dwelt on any pages as she did on those of his last letter. The curt, stern phrases both cut her and awakened a new respect for him.

With a sense of responsibility which Joanna had never seen in him before, he insisted on honoring the claim which Maggie's complete and unexacting love made upon him. &quot;Even if I wanted to give her up,&quot; he wrote in a sort of anguished virtuousness, &quot;I would not, she has been too kind to me. But I don't want to give her up, Joanna. Besides, I've got to consider the public. She has told several people that we are engaged.&quot;

Joanna cried aloud: &quot;If you had only been like this before, ever before, only once, I'd have known I couldn't trifle with you. Oh, Peter, you deceived me.&quot; The tears stood, great wells of water about her eyes.

She finished her engagement in the quiet Southern city before an audience which wondered vaguely what had happened to make Joanna Marshall different. Somehow she packed her trunk, thanked the persistent youth who had constituted himself her cavalier, and boarded the Jim Crow car. Her cavalier for all his persistence had been unable to obtain&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131684</id>
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      <text bytes="1883" sha1="tf5m87798fo6h671udemuvbq9vjrvih" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|174|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;over the page like something bewitched. It could not move fast enough to empty her heart of all she had to tell. If she could only make clear to him that she had &quot;chastened&quot; him because she loved him. How patronizing, how silly she had been. She said aloud, &quot;How he and Maggie must have laughed at me, setting myself up above them and their ideas as though I were some goddess! Oh, God, why did you let me do it? You knew what I really meant.&quot;

Her tears almost blotted out her words.

The post-office was a mile away but she trudged the distance mechanically, seeing nothing, hearing nothing, absorbed and drowned in the black sorrow which overwhelmed her.

Peter's answer, which came in four days, brought no solace. She had never dwelt on any pages as she did on those of his last letter. The curt, stern phrases both cut her and awakened a new respect for him.

With a sense of responsibility which Joanna had never seen in him before, he insisted on honoring the claim which Maggie's complete and unexacting love made upon him. &quot;Even if I wanted to give her up,&quot; he wrote in a sort of anguished virtuousness, &quot;I would not, she has been too kind to me. But I don't want to give her up, Joanna. Besides, I've got to consider the public. She has told several people that we are engaged.&quot;

Joanna cried aloud: &quot;If you had only been like this before, ever before, only once, I'd have known I couldn't trifle with you. Oh, Peter, you deceived me.&quot; The tears stood, great wells of water about her eyes.

She finished her engagement in the quiet Southern city before an audience which wondered vaguely what had happened to make Joanna Marshall different. Somehow she packed her trunk, thanked the persistent youth who had constituted himself her cavalier, and boarded the Jim Crow car. Her cavalier for all his persistence had been unable to obtain&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Yes. Some one is calling you. You'd better go. [''Alfred goes out. To'' {{sc|Briquet}}] Are you finished?

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Right away.

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Then good-bye till evening. Think about your costume, {{sc|He}}, and I shall look for some idea, too. Be here at ten to-morrow. Don’t be late, or you'll get another slap. And I’ll work with you.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I shall not be late. [''He looks after'' {{sc|Jackson}} ''who goes out''.] Must be a nice man. All the people about you are so nice, Papa Briquet. I suppose that good-looking bareback rider is in love with Consuelo, isn’t he? [''Laughs''.]

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

It’s none of your business. For a newcomer you go poking your nose too far. How much does he want, Papa?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Yes. Some one is calling you. You’d better go. [''Alfred goes out. To'' {{sc|Briquet}}] Are you finished?

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Right away.

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Then good-bye till evening. Think about your costume, {{sc|He}}, and I shall look for some idea, too. Be here at ten to-morrow. Don’t be late, or you'll get another slap. And I’ll work with you.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I shall not be late. [''He looks after'' {{sc|Jackson}} ''who goes out''.] Must be a nice man. All the people about you are so nice, Papa Briquet. I suppose that good-looking bareback rider is in love with Consuelo, isn’t he? [''Laughs''.]

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

It’s none of your business. For a newcomer you go poking your nose too far. How much does he want, Papa?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Yes. Some one is calling you. You’d better go. [''Alfred goes out. To'' {{sc|Briquet}}] Are you finished?

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Right away.

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Then good-bye till evening. Think about your costume, {{sc|He}}, and I shall look for some idea, too. Be here at ten to-morrow. Don’t be late, or you’ll get another slap. And I’ll work with you.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I shall not be late. [''He looks after'' {{sc|Jackson}} ''who goes out''.] Must be a nice man. All the people about you are so nice, Papa Briquet. I suppose that good-looking bareback rider is in love with Consuelo, isn’t he? [''Laughs''.]

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

It’s none of your business. For a newcomer you go poking your nose too far. How much does he want, Papa?
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    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/181</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="1713" sha1="6e5xyjfu3be161b5jpz2x78d8xfcpne" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|175|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;for her Pullman accommodations. After Washington she fell to wondering what it used to be like in other days, less than a year ago, when she would be coming up this way, through Baltimore, Wilmington, past Chester, secure in the knowledge that Peter would be waiting for her at West Philadelphia. He would never be there again! How could she endure it? It was not possible that anyone could stand this thing. No wonder people &quot;crossed in love&quot;—she dwelt on the phrase distastefully—killed themselves. She toyed with the idea. Of course ''she'' couldn't; that sort of relief was not for her. In the first place it was cowardly. With her usual mental clarity she visualized the colored papers of Harlem. There would be notices telling how the &quot;gifted singer, Joanna Marshall, daughter of Joel Marshall, died by her own hand{{longdash}}&quot;

Her mind lingered over it, painting in new details, consciously withdrawing as far as possible from the real cause of her grief.

As the train slid into the long shed at West Philadelphia she pressed her face against the window-pane and strained out into the dusk. Sometimes miracles did occur. Perhaps he was there, perhaps none of it was true. Her tears crept down the glass, the man behind her watching curiously.

Sylvia met her in New York, got her home and finally to bed. Mr. and Mrs. Marshall knew nothing of the matter and Sylvia had told even Brian very little. The two girls said nothing about Peter directly.

&quot;Help me to get to sleep, Sylvia,&quot; Joanna said suddenly after a rambling account of her trip. Her roving eyes and twitching hands had already betrayed her need. &quot;Help me to get to sleep or I think I shall go mad.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{c|{{asc|AT BAY}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;THE West was in the golden period of its develop-
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{{c|{{asc|AT BAY}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;THE West was in the golden period of its develop-
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Utah, Idaho, California, and the states of the Pacific 
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{{c|{{asc|AT BAY}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{di|T}}HE West was in the golden period of its development in 1880. Days of the covered wagon were 
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{{c|{{asc|AT BAY}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{di|T}}HE West was in the golden period of its development in 1880. Days of the covered wagon were 
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{{c|CHAPTER XV}}
{{c|{{asc|AT BAY}}}}

{{uc|{{di|T}}he}} West was in the golden period of its development in 1880. Days of the covered wagon were 
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But with the human tides sweeping westward, New Mexico was neglected. The vast, vague land beyond the 
Pecos was as little known to the people of the East as Timbuctoo to-day. It was regarded as a region of lawlessness, desperadoes, and sudden death. The Lincoln County war and the subsequent reign of terror Billy the Kid had set up had given the territory an evil reputation.Yet the Santa Fé railroad had crossed the Ratons. Vast areas of rich soil awaited the seller. Oportune fields for&lt;noinclude&gt;
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    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/182</title>
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{{dropcap|J}}{{uc|oanna}} was in agony. Her life, hitherto a thing of light and laughter and pleasant work, became a nightmare of regret and morbid introspection. She could not blame herself enough. Nothing that Sylvia could say would make her speak unkindly of Peter.

&quot;No, Sylvia, it wasn't his fault, really, it was all mine. Of course I think he was a little stupid not to see that my very interest in him, my constant fault-finding grew out of my wish to have him perfect. And I wanted him to be perfect because I loved him. But if I had ever dreamed how much I was hurting him, I'd never have said a word to him. I'd rather have had him exactly as he was, faults and all, than to lose him altogether.&quot;

She suffered intensely, too, from wounded pride. &quot;Just think, Sylvia, he didn't, he couldn't have loved me after all. He just wanted to get married. See how easily he turned from me. Oh, if I had known that was all he wished, I'd have been different. I'd have been just the kind of woman he wanted.&quot;

Her humble sincerity almost made Sylvia cry.

Another girl in Joanna's place might not have suffered so intensely. But Joanna, poor creature, was doomed by her very virtues. That same single-mindedness which had made her so engrossed in her art, now proved her undoing. Her mind, shocked out of its normal complacence, perceived and dwelt on a new aspect of life, an entirely different and undreamed of sense of values. For the first time in her life she&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{fine|176}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/183</title>
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      <text bytes="1856" sha1="eug1w1382ozwai7or942etdhs57bycs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|177|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;saw the importance of human relationships. What did a knowledge of singing, dancing, of any of the arts amount to without people, without parents, brothers, sisters, lovers to share one's failures, one's triumphs?

She remembered how interested, how faithfully interested all her family had been in her small career. Even Brian Spencer, now that her own brothers were away, felt responsible for her, shifted engagements to get her to the station on time, met trains at ghastly, inconvenient hours of the night. And Peter had been her slave, her willing, unquestioning slave, eager to accomplish any task no matter how troublesome, for a word of appreciation from her.

And without a thought she had taken all this as her due.

She had failed to realize happiness when she saw it. The bird had been in her grasp and she had let it go. This was her constant thought. Of course, she still had her own people. And she was considerate of them now, painfully anxious to show her gratitude. She tried to stammer out an apology to Sylvia for her past remissness.

But her sister threw an arm about her and strained her close. &quot;Don't be so thoughtful, so good, Jan. You break my heart. I'd rather have you your old thoughtless, impatient self.&quot;

Of course, this expression of gratitude was really only a gesture to life, to fate. &quot;If Peter could come back to me now, he'd see how truly I cared about him. God, couldn't you let him come back?&quot; Joanna, who had hardly uttered a prayer outside of &quot;Now I lay me,&quot; spent most of her thoughts at this time in communion with God—&quot;You Great Power, you great force, you whatever it is that rules things.&quot; Walking, riding, any action at all mechanical she utilized in concentrating on her &quot;desire to have everything come right.&quot;

In the mornings, weak and spent with the wakefulness of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1893" sha1="ta873b3ayh1l3zy5xyvhmix9qns90ey" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|178|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;her white night, she picked up her little slim Bible and read portions of the Psalms. The beautiful words not only soothed her but brought with them a wonderment at the passion and pain which they revealed. &quot;David, you, too, suffered. Help me, help me now.&quot; So intense was her thought that she would hardly have been surprised if she had looked up and seen the Psalmist bending over her.

She hated the mornings even more than the nights. In spite of her wakefulness, she was sure that there were some moments when she lapsed into unconsciousness. But the morning brought with it the promise of another day of pain, of unprofitable preoccupation. Sometimes after she had read her Psalm, despite the fact that she had been tossing, tossing on her pillow, she yielded to an overwhelming sense of apathy and lay there motionless for hours in the security of her bed.

Her mental agony was so great at times that it seemed almost physical.

Her condition surprised Sylvia greatly. &quot;I never had any idea that Jan cared so much for Peter,&quot; she told Brian. She had had to share her sister's secret with him. Joanna's persistent sleeplessness had led Sylvia in her protecting eagerness to pretend to Harry Portor that she herself was in need of a sedative and Harry had spoken to Brian about it. There had to be explanations.

Brian was not at all surprised at Joanna's suffering. &quot;A girl like Joanna would be bound to feel deeply or not at all. I knew she must have really cared for Peter, else she'd have chucked him long ago. Joanna did nag at him, but Peter is really the one to blame, for standing for it. If he'd given her a piece of his mind now and then she'd have understood whom she had to deal with; Joanna thought she could treat him as she pleased. Then when he got tired of it he threw up the whole thing without any warning, the silly ass.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/185</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131714</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T15:51:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="1931" sha1="4vwz3d2udg229p53dbafqqhefdahzbc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|179|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;Better not let Joanna hear you call him that,&quot; Sylvia interrupted.

He went on unnoticing. &quot;Of course, what Joanna doesn't realize is that she's up against the complex of color in Peter's life. It comes to every colored man and every colored woman, too, who has any ambition. Jan will feel it herself one day. Peter's got it worse than most of us because he's got such a terrible 'mad' on white people to start with. But every colored man feels it sooner or later. It gets in the way of his dreams, of his education, of his marriage, of the rearing of his children. The time comes when he thinks, 'I might just as well fall back; there's no use pushing on. A colored man just can't make any headway in this awful country.' Of course, it's a fallacy. And if a fellow sticks it out he finally gets past it, but not before it has worked considerable confusion in his life. To have the ordinary job of living is bad enough, but to add to it all the thousand and one difficulties which follow simply in the train of being colored—well, all I've got to say, Sylvia, is we're some wonderful people to live through it all and keep our sanity.&quot;

Sylvia agreed soberly that he was right.

&quot;Now, Peter,&quot; said Brian, warming to his subject, &quot;had a lot of natural handicaps, he was poor, he had no sense of responsibility, he was never too fond of work unless he had some one to spur him on to it. In addition to that he falls in love with a girl who has everything in the world which he lacks, especially comparative ease and overwhelming ambition. Jan doesn't see Peter and herself as two ordinary human beings, she thinks they have a high destiny to perform and so she drives Peter into a course of action which left to himself he would never pursue. I'll bet a month's salary Peter had no intention of studying surgery until he found out he had to do something extraordinary to win Joanna. Now, just&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/186</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847390</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131718</id>
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      <text bytes="1783" sha1="1lbtwlucv02f8zekbd9h4xq9zvgt0oq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|180|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;when each needs the most sympathy from the other, when Joanna's plans are, I suspect, going awry, and when Peter is suffering most from his color complex, the two let their frazzled nerves carry them into a jangle and bang, Peter flies to the first woman who promises to let him take life easy! Maggie doesn't see life in the large, she's too much taken up with getting what she wants out of her own life. Perhaps she's right.&quot;

&quot;I don't see how you can say that, Brian.&quot;

&quot;Well, it all depends on one's viewpoint. Personally, I think Peter will get what he deserves if he marries Maggie. She's the one that astonishes me. Of course, if Peter and Jan really are through with each other, he's got a perfect right to marry whom he pleases, but I should think Maggie's old friendship for you two girls would have held her back awhile.&quot; A memory stirred vaguely within him. &quot;Or—no, that would really be too rotten.&quot;

&quot;What would?&quot;

&quot;Maggie, you know. Remember how suddenly she married Neal? I've always thought Joanna had something to do with that. Just the Sunday before, Maggie had given me a look-in on her feelings for Philip and I happened to tell Jan about it. My, how she raved! A few days later Maggie married her gambler.&quot;

This was all news to Sylvia.

&quot;Well, I won't tell Joanna. She's got enough to bear.&quot;

Joanna was indeed bearing more than Sylvia could guess. She was feeling the pull of awakened and unsatisfied passion. It is doubtful if she could thus have analyzed it, for she had rather deliberately withheld her attention from the basic facts of life. &quot;Plenty of time for that,&quot; she had told herself gayly, a little proud perhaps of a virginal fastidiousness which kept her ignorant as well as innocent. Yet bit by bit she had&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/187</title>
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      <text bytes="476" sha1="cooqmtlh0iptaytgkp9o8pqufw9lxk8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|181|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;built up the idea of a shrine into which, not unwillingly, she should enter with Peter some day. She had never even vaguely thought of any one else as a companion. Her whole concept of love and marriage for herself centered about Peter Bye.

And now Peter was gone—and his departure had opened up this sea, this bottomless pit of torment. This, this was life. &quot;This is being grown up,&quot; she told herself through endless midnight watches.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/243</title>
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{{class block/s|chapter}}{{c|CHAPTER XVII}}

{{c|{{asc|A LITTLE GAME OF MONTE}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;DON'T you or Bell ever let the Kid see the colour of 
your back,” said Sheriff Pat Garrett to Bob 
Ollinger. “Keep vour faces to him and vour eyes 
on him every minute. You never can tell what's in that 
boy’s mind. He's got a mighty deceivin’ smile. There's 
murder back of that smile of his.” 
Deputy Sheriff Bob Ollinger and Deputy Sheriff J. W. 
Bell of White Oaks were Billy the Kid's death watch dur- 
ing the days of his imprisonment in Lincoln. 
“You don’t have to worry about me. Pat,” replied 
Ollinger. “I know the Kid and I'm never takin’ no 
chances with him. I watch him like a hawk. I always 
got my six-shooter on and my double-barrelled shotgun 
loaded with buckshot in my hands. The Kid knows 
better than to try any monkey business with me. Just 
let him make one false move and I'll fill him full of lead. 
He knows that.” 
“That’s the idea, Bob,” said the sheriff. 
“But Bell’s different,” went on Ollinger. “I'm more 
afraid of him than I am of the Kid. He's always layin’ 
himself wide open. Plays cards with the Kid. I told 
him that ain’t no way to do. But Bell savs he feels sorry 
for the Kid and wants to cheer him up. The only way 
I'd like to cheer him up is with a load of buckshot. Bell 
gets to studyin’ about the game. But the Kid ain't in-
terested in cards; what he's interested in is in getting his hand&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|229}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{c|{{asc|A LITTLE GAME OF MONTE}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;DON'T you or Bell ever let the Kid see the colour of 
your back,” said Sheriff Pat Garrett to Bob 
Ollinger. “Keep vour faces to him and vour eyes 
on him every minute. You never can tell what's in that 
boy’s mind. He's got a mighty deceivin’ smile. There's 
murder back of that smile of his.” 
Deputy Sheriff Bob Ollinger and Deputy Sheriff J. W. 
Bell of White Oaks were Billy the Kid's death watch dur- 
ing the days of his imprisonment in Lincoln. 
“You don’t have to worry about me. Pat,” replied 
Ollinger. “I know the Kid and I'm never takin’ no 
chances with him. I watch him like a hawk. I always 
got my six-shooter on and my double-barrelled shotgun 
loaded with buckshot in my hands. The Kid knows 
better than to try any monkey business with me. Just 
let him make one false move and I'll fill him full of lead. 
He knows that.” 
“That’s the idea, Bob,” said the sheriff. 
“But Bell’s different,” went on Ollinger. “I'm more 
afraid of him than I am of the Kid. He's always layin’ 
himself wide open. Plays cards with the Kid. I told 
him that ain’t no way to do. But Bell savs he feels sorry 
for the Kid and wants to cheer him up. The only way 
I'd like to cheer him up is with a load of buckshot. Bell 
gets to studyin’ about the game. But the Kid ain't in-
terested in cards; what he's interested in is in getting his hand&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|229}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{c|{{asc|A LITTLE GAME OF MONTE}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;DON'T you or Bell ever let the Kid see the colour of 
your back,” said Sheriff Pat Garrett to Bob 
Ollinger. “Keep vour faces to him and vour eyes 
on him every minute. You never can tell what's in that 
boy’s mind. He's got a mighty deceivin’ smile. There's 
murder back of that smile of his.” 
Deputy Sheriff Bob Ollinger and Deputy Sheriff J. W. 
Bell of White Oaks were Billy the Kid's death watch dur- 
ing the days of his imprisonment in Lincoln. 
“You don’t have to worry about me. Pat,” replied 
Ollinger. “I know the Kid and I'm never takin’ no 
chances with him. I watch him like a hawk. I always 
got my six-shooter on and my double-barrelled shotgun 
loaded with buckshot in my hands. The Kid knows 
better than to try any monkey business with me. Just 
let him make one false move and I'll fill him full of lead. 
He knows that.” 
“That’s the idea, Bob,” said the sheriff. 
“But Bell’s different,” went on Ollinger. “I'm more 
afraid of him than I am of the Kid. He's always layin’ 
himself wide open. Plays cards with the Kid. I told 
him that ain’t no way to do. But Bell savs he feels sorry 
for the Kid and wants to cheer him up. The only way 
I'd like to cheer him up is with a load of buckshot. Bell 
gets to studyin’ about the game. But the Kid ain't in- 
terested in cards; what he's interested in is in getting his hand&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{c|229}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{c|{{asc|A LITTLE GAME OF MONTE}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{di|D}}ON'T you or Bell ever let the Kid see the colour of 
your back,” said Sheriff Pat Garrett to Bob 
Ollinger. “Keep vour faces to him and vour eyes 
on him every minute. You never can tell what's in that 
boy’s mind. He's got a mighty deceivin’ smile. There's 
murder back of that smile of his.” 

Deputy Sheriff Bob Ollinger and Deputy Sheriff J. W. 
Bell of White Oaks were Billy the Kid's death watch during the days of his imprisonment in Lincoln. 

“You don’t have to worry about me. Pat,” replied 
Ollinger. “I know the Kid and I'm never takin’ no 
chances with him. I watch him like a hawk. I always 
got my six-shooter on and my double-barrelled shotgun 
loaded with buckshot in my hands. The Kid knows 
better than to try any monkey business with me. Just 
let him make one false move and I'll fill him full of lead. 
He knows that.” 

“That’s the idea, Bob,” said the sheriff. 

“But Bell’s different,” went on Ollinger. “I'm more 
afraid of him than I am of the Kid. He's always layin’ 
himself wide open. Plays cards with the Kid. I told 
him that ain’t no way to do. But Bell savs he feels sorry 
for the Kid and wants to cheer him up. The only way 
I'd like to cheer him up is with a load of buckshot. Bell 
gets to studyin’ about the game. But the Kid ain't in- 
terested in cards; what he's interested in is in getting his hand&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{c|229}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{c|{{asc|A LITTLE GAME OF MONTE}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{di|D}}ON'T you or Bell ever let the Kid see the colour of 
your back,” said Sheriff Pat Garrett to Bob 
Ollinger. “Keep vour faces to him and vour eyes 
on him every minute. You never can tell what's in that 
boy’s mind. He's got a mighty deceivin’ smile. There's 
murder back of that smile of his.” 

Deputy Sheriff Bob Ollinger and Deputy Sheriff J. W. 
Bell of White Oaks were Billy the Kid's death watch during the days of his imprisonment in Lincoln. 

“You don’t have to worry about me. Pat,” replied 
Ollinger. “I know the Kid and I'm never takin’ no 
chances with him. I watch him like a hawk. I always 
got my six-shooter on and my double-barrelled shotgun 
loaded with buckshot in my hands. The Kid knows 
better than to try any monkey business with me. Just 
let him make one false move and I'll fill him full of lead. 
He knows that.” 

“That’s the idea, Bob,” said the sheriff. 

“But Bell’s different,” went on Ollinger. “I'm more 
afraid of him than I am of the Kid. He's always layin’ 
himself wide open. Plays cards with the Kid. I told 
him that ain’t no way to do. But Bell savs he feels sorry 
for the Kid and wants to cheer him up. The only way 
I'd like to cheer him up is with a load of buckshot. Bell 
gets to studyin’ about the game. But the Kid ain't in- 
terested in cards; what he's interested in is in getting his hand&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{c|229}}
{{class block/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{c|{{asc|A LITTLE GAME OF MONTE}}}}

{{uc|{{di|D}}on't}} you or Bell ever let the Kid see the colour of your back,&quot; said Sheriff Pat Garrett to Bob Ollinger. “Keep your faces to him and your eyes on him every minute. You never can tell what's in that boy's mind. He's got a mighty deceivin' smile. There's murder back of that smile of his.&quot;

Deputy Sheriff Bob Ollinger and Deputy Sheriff J. W. Bell of White Oaks were Billy the Kid's death watch during the days of his imprisonment in Lincoln.

&quot;You don't have to worry about me. Pat,&quot; replied Ollinger. &quot;I know the Kid and I'm never takin' no chances with him. I watch him like a hawk. I always got my six-shooter on and my double-barrelled shotgun loaded with buckshot in my hands. The Kid knows better than to try any monkey business with me. Just let him make one false move and I'll fill him full of lead. He knows that.&quot;

&quot;That's the idea, Bob,&quot; said the sheriff.

&quot;But Bell's different,&quot; went on Ollinger. &quot;I'm more afraid of him than I am of the Kid. He's always layin' himself wide open. Plays cards with the Kid. I told him that ain't no way to do. But Bell says he feels sorry for the Kid and wants to cheer him up. The only way I'd like to cheer him up is with a load of buckshot. Bell gets to studyin' about the game. But the Kid ain't interested in cards; what he's interested in is in getting his hand&lt;noinclude&gt;
{{c|229}}
{{class block/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/263</title>
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      <text bytes="1841" sha1="hhmzyf8hijx2cddjbv0mgp3f21q4v1n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;CinderellaNewYork&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|249|A LITTLE GAME OF MONTE|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Over the shining length of the double barrel gleamed the 
Kid’s hard gray eyes and the Kid’s cold white face. He 
was smiling. 
Ollinger stopped dead in his tracks. It may have been 
the shock of surprise that stopped him. It may have 
been the paralysis of fear. It may have been the helpless 
realization that he was at the end of his journey of life— 
everything. His cocked six-shooter hung useless in his 
hand at his side. He stared up at the Kid with a startled, 
foolish, hopeless look. His eves popped half out of their 
sockets. His mouth fell open. . . . The Kid pulled 
the trigger. All Lincoln heard the roar of th: gun. A 
puff of blue, acrid smoke drifted off into the street. Nine 
buckshot struck Ollinger in the breast. The impact spun 
him half round. He lunged forward and measured his 
length on the ground, his arms outstretched. his cocked, 
six-shooter still grasped in his hand. 
The report of the shotgun brought the townspeople to 
their doors up and down the street. News of some sort 
of tragedy at the courthouse spread quickly. Billy the 
Kid had done something terrible again. “I told you so,” 
ran from mouth to mouth. The desperado was loose; he 
might be planning other atrocities. Panic fell upon the 
town. Best for Lincoln to keep indoors. So the villagers, 
having rushed out, rushed in again, drew the bolts, and 
closed the shutters. Half-a-dozen men eating dinner in 
the Wortley Hotel crowded pell-mell out upon the porch. 
That was as far as their curiosity took them. Enthusi- 
asm for investigation evaporated when they saw Ollinger 
stretched dead across the street. They remained on the 
porch as spectators, awaiting the next act in the play. 
The front door in the second story of the courthouse 
opened. Out upon the porch high above the street&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2370" sha1="9k0czw7pe7rnk23yn3d64cjgbzveoa9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|58|''The Beaux Stratagem''.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;{{ppoem|start=same-line|end=close|Danger shall be all my own{{longdash}}Come, my Life, let me but get my Sword. 
{{rbstagedir|Exeunt.}}}}
{{dhr}}
&lt;section end=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;{{c|SCENE, ''Changes to a Bed-chamber in Lady'' Bountiful''{{'}}s House''.}}

{{ppoem|start=open|end=stanza|&lt;&gt;''Enter Mrs. ''Sull. Dor.'' undress'd, a Table and Lights.''

{{em}}''Dor''.{{em}}'Tis very late, Sister, no News of your Spouse yet?

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}No, I'm condemn'd to be alone till towards four, and then perhaps I may be executed with his Company.

{{em}}''Dor''.{{em}}Well, my Dear, I'll leave you to your rest; you'll go directly to Bed, I suppose.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}I don't know what to do? hey-hoe.

{{em}}''Dor''.{{em}}That's a desiring Sigh, Sister.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}This is a languishing Hour, Sister.

{{em}}''Dor''.{{em}}And might prove a Critical Minute, if the pretty Fellow were here.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Here! what, in my Bed-chamber, at two a Clock o'th' Morning, I undress'd, the Family asleep, my hated Husband abroad, and my lovely Fellow at my Feet—O gad, Sister!

{{em}}''Dor''.{{em}}Thoughts are free, Sister, and them I allow you—So, my Dear, good Night.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}A good Rest to my dear ''Dorinda''—Thoughts free! are they so? why then suppose him here, dress'd like a youthful, gay and burning bridegroom. [''Here'' Archer ''steals out of the Closet''.] with Tongue enchanting, Eyes bewitching, Knees imploring. [''Turns a little o' one side, and sees ''Archer'' in the posture she describes.] Ah! [''Shreeks, and runs to the other Side of the Stage] Have my thoughts rais'd a Spirit?—What are you, Sir, a Man or a Devil?

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}A Man, a Man, Madam. {{rbstagedir|Rising.}}

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}How shall I be sure of it?

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Madam, I'll give you Demonstration this Minute.
{{rbstagedir|Takes her Hand.}}

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}What, Sir! do you intend to be rude?

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Yes, Madam, if you please.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}In the Name of Wonder, Whence came ye?

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}From the Skies, Madam{{longdash}}I'm a ''Jupiter'' in Love, and you shall be my ''Alimena''.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}How came you in?}}&lt;section end=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|''Arch''.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>The Beaux Stratagem/Act 5 Scene 1</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title      = [[../]]  | author     = George Farquhar  | translator =   | section    = Act V, Scene I.  | previous   = [[../Act 4 Scene 1|Act IV, Scene I]]  | next       = [[../Act 5 Scene 2|Act V, Scene II]]  | notes      =  }} &lt;pages index=&quot;The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu&quot; from=67 fromsection=&quot;s2&quot; to=70 tosection=&quot;s1&quot;/&gt;&quot;</comment>
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 | title      = [[../]]
 | author     = George Farquhar
 | translator = 
 | section    = Act V, Scene I.
 | previous   = [[../Act 4 Scene 1|Act IV, Scene I]]
 | next       = [[../Act 5 Scene 2|Act V, Scene II]]
 | notes      = 
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu&quot; from=67 fromsection=&quot;s2&quot; to=70 tosection=&quot;s1&quot;/&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/264</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15131759</id>
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      <text bytes="1843" sha1="p4imutuprz3pge6gtarbjpejlo5mfse" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;CinderellaNewYork&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|250|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;stepped Billy the Kid. He still wore his leg irons, but the 
handcuffs had disappeared from his wrists; he had slipped 
them off without great difficulty over his remarkably small 
hands. The sheer bravado of his appearance was his 
gesture of drama. It made him a fair target for death 
from a dozen places of concealment; but no hidden foe 
ventured a shot to avenge Ollinger and Bell. With the 
porch as his stage, he stood for a moment leaning upon his 
shotgun like an actor awaiting the applause of his audience 
at the close of a big scene. 
He moved a few paces to the east end of the porch. 
Standing at the head of the steps that led down to the 
street, he caught sight of Ollinger’s body sprawled face 
downward beneath him. The Kid’s eyes rested on the 
spot between the shoulder blades. His tormentor’s threat 
flashed back upon him. . . . “Eighteen buckshot be- 
tween your shoulder blades.” The Kid regretted he had 
only nine buckshot left. Beneath the shoulder blades of 
the limp form lying there lay the heart that had hated him, 
that had beat high at the thought of seeing him kick at 
the end of a hangman’s rope, that had exulted in the pros- 
pect of his dancing a death dance on air. Here was his 
opportunity to add the completing detail to his revenge— 
the last, finishing touch of an artist in murders. He raised 
the shotgun to his shoulders and took deliberate aim. 
Again all Lincoln heard the roar. The dead man seemed 
to jump as the nine buckshot drove home between the 
shoulder blades. 
The Kid raised the gun high above his head and with 
all the strength of his lithe arms flung it crashing down 
upon the corpse of the man he hated. 
“Take that to hell with you, you cowardly yellow cur!” 
he snarled and, turning, hobbled back into the building,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/261</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847397</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131763</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:21:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="595" sha1="dqqab9h5vi6jn3okwszg245io3m2lgm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|227|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;leaving France for Elba, I heard he had been ill treated by the other party at the head of affairs, and had escaped. On my return to Paris from Elba, retiring one night to my chamber, the same man somehow or other obtained entrance; by some accident he fell, and the fall caused something in his pocket, which was intended to despatch me, to explode, wounded him so severely instead, that he nearly died. I heard afterwards, that he had thrown himself into the Seine, and was drowned.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/260</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847398</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131764</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:22:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1011" sha1="12yyxxac30uhfemlay1ua53lu26b95g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|226|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;for some days. This saved his life, as it was Caracchi's intention to have poniarded him whilst sitting.

Another time, a letter was sent to inform the emperor that a certain person was to leave at a stated time for Paris, where he would arrive on a day indicated in the letter, his intentions being to murder him. The police took measures, and watched him; he arrived on the day noted, and was seen to enter a chapel whither Napoleon had gone, in celebration of some festival. He was arrested, and expressed his intentions, and said, when the people knelt down on the elevation of the host, he observed the emperor gazing on a beautiful woman. At first, he intended to advance and fire; but, upon reflection, thought it would make it surer to stab him when coming out of chapel. &quot;I forgave the wretch, for I never liked to execute, if I could save life, and merely ordered him to be put in confinement. After&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/259</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847399</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131766</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:23:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1022" sha1="qznsg9m2yv3l11qzvvjmx0ly6zd6jf9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|225|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of assassination, and that he never slept two nights together in the same bed-room. He told us all these things were fabrications; but that he ever adopted one rule{{mdash}}never to make public his intention whither he meant to go, five minutes before he actually took his departure, and he doubted not many conspirators were thus foiled, as they were ignorant where he was at any time to be found.

There was a sculptor named Caracchi, a Corsican, who had once made a statue of him, and who at one time had been strongly attached to Napoleon; but having become a fanatical republican, determined to kill him. For that purpose he went to Paris, and begged to be allowed to model another statue for him, saying, the first was not as well done as he could have desired. Napoleon, little thinking this man meant to assassinate him, only refused his consent because he did not like the trouble of sitting in the same posture&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/258</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847400</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131768</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:24:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1036" sha1="f9cas5f7y7wv26ddl9y6uzwke9sz4cs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|224|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;represent the murder of the Duke d'Enghien. He looked at the print with great interest, and asked me what I knew about it. I told him he was considered the murderer of that illustrious prince. He said, in reply, it was true, he had ordered his execution, for he was a conspirator, and had landed troops in the pay of the Bourbons to assassinate him; and he thought from such a conspiracy, he could not act in a more politic manner than by causing one of their own princes to be put to death, in order the more effectually to deter them from attempting his life again; that the prisoner was tried for having borne arms against the republic, and was executed according to the existing laws; but not, as here represented, in a ditch, and at night. There was nothing secret in the transaction; all was public and open.

I told him I had heard that he wore armour under his dress, to render him invulnerable, as he was continually in dread&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/257</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131769</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:26:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
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      <text bytes="1009" sha1="31jycpr4wdkyiprchy0dcgm0akdvtn7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|223|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;nothing in Bonaparte's history shews the existence of such a vice. It was one of the numerous and sad results of boundless ambition, united to unlimited power. In aiming at gigantic undertakings, he forgot to calculate the waste of human life which the execution of his projects necessarily involved.

There was a lady, the wife of an officer in the 66th regiment, a Mrs. Baird, who sang and played very well; among her favourite songs was a monody upon the Duke d'Enghien. I learned this, and sang it to Napoleon one day at Madame Bertrand's. He was pleased with the air, and asked me what it was. I shewed it to him: there was a vignette on the cover of the music, representing a man standing in a ditch, with a bandage round his eyes and a lantern tied to his waist; in front of him several soldiers, with their muskets levelled in the act of firing. He asked what it meant. I told him it was intended to&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/256</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847402</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131770</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:27:50Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1054" sha1="nq78myi1j44phn91zurextxnhenscxs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|222|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;There are many reasons why the worst features of this report were at first readily believed. It was consistent with Napoleon's character to look at results rather than at the measures that were to produce them, and to consider in many cases the end as an excuse for the means; besides, not three months before, he had given the world a fearful example of how bloody a deed he was capable, when he considered it necessary to the furtherance of his own plans. The execution of the Turkish prisoners at Jaffa was equal in cruelty, though not in extent, to the fusillades of the revolution. Besides which, it was unjustifiable by the usages of war, the Turks having given up their arms and surrendered themselves prisoners of war on condition of safety of life at least. It is true that this dreadful deed will always remain a deep stain upon Napoleon's character, but it would be uncharitable to view it as the indulgence of an innate love of cruelty, for&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/254</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131771</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:28:45Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1031" sha1="ske0nsnvxkamo26s0vp7mub9g7ey863" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|220|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;enemy, and they remained till nature had paid her last debt and released the expiring soldiers from their agony.&quot; Such is the true, and now almost universally acknowledged version of this atrocious story. &quot;Not that I think it would have been a crime,&quot; Napoleon observed, &quot;had opium been administered; on the contrary, I think it would have been a virtue. To leave a few miserables, who could not recover, in order that they might be massacred according to the custom of the Turks, with the most dreadful tortures, would I think have been cruelty; nor would any man under similar circumstances, who had the free use of his senses, have hesitated to prefer dying easily a few hours sooner, rather than expire under the tortures of those barbarians. I ask you, O'Meara, to place yourself in the situation of one of these men, and were it demanded of you which fate you would select, either to be left to suffer the tortures of those&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf/255</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847404</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131772</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:32:09Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1072" sha1="4e9o1lj6p8da2t76l7sdnazjs6olr93" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|221|{{asc|the Emperor Napoleon.}}|{{asc|Recollections of}}|{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}]|[{{asc|Ch. XIX.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;miscreants, or to have opium administered to you, which would you rather choose? If my own son, and I believe I love my son as well as any father does his child, were in a similar situation, I would advise it to be done; and if so situated myself, I would insist upon it, if I had sense enough and strength to demand it. Do you think if I had been capable of secretly poisoning my soldiers, or of such barbarities, (as have been ascribed to me,) of driving my carriage over the mutilated and bleeding bodies of the wounded, that my troops would have fought under me with the enthusiasm and affection they uniformly displayed? No, no; I should have been shot long ago; even my wounded would have tried to pull a trigger to despatch me.&quot;

It is be regretted that the conscience of Napoleon did not prompt him to feel or say with Richard III.,
{{ppoem|{fine}
{{fqm}}E'en all mankind to some lov'd ills incline;
Great men choose greater things, ambition 's mine.&quot;
}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena/Chapter 19</title>
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      <text bytes="378" sha1="keem2rw6q1fs4j26qxfrqwxod9mv0m7" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = Recollections of Napoleon at St. Helena
 | author      = Lucia Elizabeth Balcombe Abell
 | section     = Chapter XIX
 | previous    = [[../Chapter 18|Chapter XVIII]]
 | next        = [[../Chapter 20|Chapter XX]]
 | year        = 1844
 | notes       = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;California Digital Library (IA recollectionsofe00abeliala).pdf&quot; from=251 to=261 /&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2356" sha1="rshbapt08bmv23vff5rn8wbwt4vo59s" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|59|''The Beaux Stratagem''.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|end=same-line|{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}I flew in at the Window, Madam, your Cozen ''Cupid'' lent me his Wings, and your Sister ''Venus'' open'd the Casement.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}I'm struck dumb with Admiration.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}And I with wonder. {{rbstagedir|Looks passionately at her.}}

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}What will become of me?

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}How beautiful she looks—The teeming Jolly Spring Smiles in her blooming Face, and when she was conceiv'd, her Mother smelt to Roses, look'd on Lillies—
{{em|4}}''Lillies unfold their white, their fragrant Charms,''
{{em|4}}''When the warm Sun thus Darts into their Arms.''
{{rbstagedir|Runs to her.}}

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Ah! [''Shreeks.'']

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Oons, Madam, what d'ye mean? you'll raise the House.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Sir, I'll wake the Dead before I bear this—What! approach me with the Freedoms of a keeper; I'm glad on't, your Impudence has cur'd me.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}If this be Impudence—[''Kneels''] I leave to your partial self; no panting Pilgrim after a tedious, painful Voyage, e'er bow'd before his Saint with more Devotion.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Now, now, I'm ruin'd, if he kneels! [''Aside''] rise, thou prostrate Ingineer, not all thy undermining Skill shall reach my Heart{{longdash}}Rise, and know, I am a Woman without my Sex, I can love to all the Tenderness of Wishes, Sighs, and Tears{{longdash}}But go no farther—Still to convince you that I'm more than Woman, I can speak my Frailty, confess my Weakness even for you—But{{longdash}}

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}For me! {{rbstagedir|Going to lay hold on her.}}

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Hold, Sir, build not upon that—For my most mortal hatred follows if you disobey what I command you now—leave me this Minute{{longdash}}If he denies, I'm lost. {{rbstagedir|Aside.}}

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Then you'll promise{{longdash}}

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Any thing another time.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}When shall I come?

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}To Morrow when you will.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Your Lips must seal the Promise.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Pshaw!

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}They must, they must [''Kisses her''] Raptures and Paradice! and why not now, my Angel? the Time, the Place,}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|Silence}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
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!width=50%| progress
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| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
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| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
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| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
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|-
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| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
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!width=50%| progress
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| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
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| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
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| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
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| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
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!width=50%| progress
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| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
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| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
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| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
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==Mormon works==
{| class=wikitable
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| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
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| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
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| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
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| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
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| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
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| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
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| {{Index progress bar|The Old English Physiologus.djvu}}
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| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Ugly-Girl Papers]]
| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
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| {{Index progress bar|The Relations of the Sexes by Eliza Bisbee Duffey.djvu}}
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| [[No Sex in Education]]
| {{Index progress bar|No Sex in Education.djvu}}
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| [[What Women Should Know]]
| {{Index progress bar|What Women Should Know.djvu}}
|-
| [[Boarding Round]]
| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
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==Artic works==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The People of the Polar North]]
| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
| {{Index progress bar|Across Arctic America.djvu}}
|-
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| {{Index progress bar|Archæology of the Central Eskimos.djvu}}{{Index progress bar|The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture.djvu}}
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| [[Five Hundred Eskimo Words]]
| {{Index progress bar|Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu}}
|-
| [[Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Caribou Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
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==Mormon works==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
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| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
| [[Utah and the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Art of Distillation]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
|-
| [[Ten Books on Architecture]]
| {{Index progress bar|Vitruvius the Ten Books on Architecture.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
|}</text>
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! title
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| {{Index progress bar|The Old English Physiologus.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Ugly-Girl Papers]]
| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
|-
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| {{Index progress bar|The Relations of the Sexes by Eliza Bisbee Duffey.djvu}}
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| [[No Sex in Education]]
| {{Index progress bar|No Sex in Education.djvu}}
|-
| [[What Women Should Know]]
| {{Index progress bar|What Women Should Know.djvu}}
|-
| [[Boarding Round]]
| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
|}

==Artic works==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The People of the Polar North]]
| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
| {{Index progress bar|Across Arctic America.djvu}}
|-
| [[Archæology of the Central Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Archæology of the Central Eskimos.djvu}}{{Index progress bar|The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture.djvu}}
|-
| [[Five Hundred Eskimo Words]]
| {{Index progress bar|Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu}}
|-
| [[Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Caribou Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|}

==Mormon works==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[Mormonism Unvailed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
| [[Utah and the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Art of Distillation]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
|-
| [[Ten Books on Architecture]]
| {{Index progress bar|Vitruvius the Ten Books on Architecture.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Aborigines of Victoria]]
| {{Index progress bar|Aboriginesofvictoria01.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Little Karoo]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Little Karoo (1925).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
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      <text bytes="3394" sha1="pfx2grfzx0ic02z7inkx5fqa743gqwq" xml:space="preserve">==solo works==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Old English Physiologus]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Old English Physiologus.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Long Lost Friend]]
| {{Index progress bar|The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Ugly-Girl Papers]]
| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Relations of the Sexes (Duffey)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Relations of the Sexes by Eliza Bisbee Duffey.djvu}}
|-
| [[No Sex in Education]]
| {{Index progress bar|No Sex in Education.djvu}}
|-
| [[What Women Should Know]]
| {{Index progress bar|What Women Should Know.djvu}}
|-
| [[Boarding Round]]
| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
|}

===Artic works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The People of the Polar North]]
| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
| {{Index progress bar|Across Arctic America.djvu}}
|-
| [[Archæology of the Central Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Archæology of the Central Eskimos.djvu}}{{Index progress bar|The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture.djvu}}
|-
| [[Five Hundred Eskimo Words]]
| {{Index progress bar|Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu}}
|-
| [[Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Caribou Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|}

===Mormon works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[Mormonism Unvailed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
| [[Utah and the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Art of Distillation]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
|-
| [[Ten Books on Architecture]]
| {{Index progress bar|Vitruvius the Ten Books on Architecture.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Aborigines of Victoria]]
| {{Index progress bar|Aboriginesofvictoria01.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Little Karoo]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Little Karoo (1925).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
|}</text>
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{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Old English Physiologus]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Old English Physiologus.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Long Lost Friend]]
| {{Index progress bar|The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu}}
|-
| [[Fairy Tales, Now First Collected]]
| {{Index progress bar|Fairy tales, now first collected by Joseph Ritson.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Ugly-Girl Papers]]
| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Relations of the Sexes (Duffey)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Relations of the Sexes by Eliza Bisbee Duffey.djvu}}
|-
| [[No Sex in Education]]
| {{Index progress bar|No Sex in Education.djvu}}
|-
| [[What Women Should Know]]
| {{Index progress bar|What Women Should Know.djvu}}
|-
| [[Boarding Round]]
| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
|}

===Artic works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The People of the Polar North]]
| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
| {{Index progress bar|Across Arctic America.djvu}}
|-
| [[Archæology of the Central Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Archæology of the Central Eskimos.djvu}}{{Index progress bar|The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture.djvu}}
|-
| [[Five Hundred Eskimo Words]]
| {{Index progress bar|Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu}}
|-
| [[Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Caribou Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|}

===Mormon works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[Mormonism Unvailed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
| [[Utah and the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Art of Distillation]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
|-
| [[Ten Books on Architecture]]
| {{Index progress bar|Vitruvius the Ten Books on Architecture.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Aborigines of Victoria]]
| {{Index progress bar|Aboriginesofvictoria01.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Little Karoo]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Little Karoo (1925).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
|}</text>
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{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Old English Physiologus]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Old English Physiologus.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Long Lost Friend]]
| {{Index progress bar|The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu}}
|-
| [[Fairy Tales, Now First Collected]]
| {{Index progress bar|Fairy tales, now first collected by Joseph Ritson.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History and Description of the Isle of Man]]
| {{Index progress bar|The History and Description of the Isle of Man.djvu}}
|-
| [[A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Ugly-Girl Papers]]
| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
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| [[The Relations of the Sexes (Duffey)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Relations of the Sexes by Eliza Bisbee Duffey.djvu}}
|-
| [[No Sex in Education]]
| {{Index progress bar|No Sex in Education.djvu}}
|-
| [[What Women Should Know]]
| {{Index progress bar|What Women Should Know.djvu}}
|-
| [[Boarding Round]]
| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
|}

===Artic works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The People of the Polar North]]
| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
| {{Index progress bar|Across Arctic America.djvu}}
|-
| [[Archæology of the Central Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Archæology of the Central Eskimos.djvu}}{{Index progress bar|The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture.djvu}}
|-
| [[Five Hundred Eskimo Words]]
| {{Index progress bar|Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu}}
|-
| [[Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Caribou Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|}

===Mormon works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[Mormonism Unvailed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
| [[Utah and the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Art of Distillation]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
|-
| [[Ten Books on Architecture]]
| {{Index progress bar|Vitruvius the Ten Books on Architecture.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Aborigines of Victoria]]
| {{Index progress bar|Aboriginesofvictoria01.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Little Karoo]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Little Karoo (1925).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
|}</text>
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      <text bytes="3913" sha1="mtg4ltl5xult8jgma6eek9pn4dayv23" xml:space="preserve">==solo works==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Old English Physiologus]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Old English Physiologus.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Long Lost Friend]]
| {{Index progress bar|The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu}}
|-
| [[Fairy Tales, Now First Collected]]
| {{Index progress bar|Fairy tales, now first collected by Joseph Ritson.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History and Description of the Isle of Man]]
| {{Index progress bar|The History and Description of the Isle of Man.djvu}}
|-
| [[A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly.djvu}}
|-
| [[New Guide to Health]]
| {{Index progress bar|New Guide to Health; or, Botanic Family Physician.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Ugly-Girl Papers]]
| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Relations of the Sexes (Duffey)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Relations of the Sexes by Eliza Bisbee Duffey.djvu}}
|-
| [[No Sex in Education]]
| {{Index progress bar|No Sex in Education.djvu}}
|-
| [[What Women Should Know]]
| {{Index progress bar|What Women Should Know.djvu}}
|-
| [[Boarding Round]]
| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
|}

===Artic works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The People of the Polar North]]
| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
| {{Index progress bar|Across Arctic America.djvu}}
|-
| [[Archæology of the Central Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Archæology of the Central Eskimos.djvu}}{{Index progress bar|The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture.djvu}}
|-
| [[Five Hundred Eskimo Words]]
| {{Index progress bar|Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu}}
|-
| [[Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Caribou Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|}

===Mormon works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[Mormonism Unvailed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
| [[Utah and the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Art of Distillation]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
|-
| [[Ten Books on Architecture]]
| {{Index progress bar|Vitruvius the Ten Books on Architecture.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Aborigines of Victoria]]
| {{Index progress bar|Aboriginesofvictoria01.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Little Karoo]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Little Karoo (1925).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
|}</text>
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      <text bytes="4237" sha1="qw3y3j50pqrb3kyilnpk6hkyk7qnw91" xml:space="preserve">==solo works==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Old English Physiologus]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Old English Physiologus.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Long Lost Friend]]
| {{Index progress bar|The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu}}
|-
| [[Fairy Tales, Now First Collected]]
| {{Index progress bar|Fairy tales, now first collected by Joseph Ritson.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History and Description of the Isle of Man]]
| {{Index progress bar|The History and Description of the Isle of Man.djvu}}
|-
| [[A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly.djvu}}
|-
| [[New Guide to Health]]
| {{Index progress bar|New Guide to Health; or, Botanic Family Physician.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Ugly-Girl Papers]]
| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Relations of the Sexes (Duffey)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Relations of the Sexes by Eliza Bisbee Duffey.djvu}}
|-
| [[No Sex in Education]]
| {{Index progress bar|No Sex in Education.djvu}}
|-
| [[What Women Should Know]]
| {{Index progress bar|What Women Should Know.djvu}}
|-
| [[Boarding Round]]
| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
|}

===Artic works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The People of the Polar North]]
| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
| {{Index progress bar|Across Arctic America.djvu}}
|-
| [[Archæology of the Central Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Archæology of the Central Eskimos.djvu}}{{Index progress bar|The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture.djvu}}
|-
| [[Five Hundred Eskimo Words]]
| {{Index progress bar|Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu}}
|-
| [[Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Caribou Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|}

===Mormon works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[Mormonism Unvailed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
| [[Utah and the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|-
| [[Brigham's Destroying Angel]]
| {{Index progress bar|Brigham's destroying angel - being the life, confession, and startling disclosures of the notorious Bill Hickman, the Danite chief of Utah (IA brighamsdestroyi00hickrich).pdf}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Art of Distillation]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
|-
| [[Ten Books on Architecture]]
| {{Index progress bar|Vitruvius the Ten Books on Architecture.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Aborigines of Victoria]]
| {{Index progress bar|Aboriginesofvictoria01.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Little Karoo]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Little Karoo (1925).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
|-
| [[Kama Sutra (Burton)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu}}
|}</text>
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    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:33:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Mormon works */</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4322" sha1="nxegn3we8gj1fs4rvb1jp4vi902wk45" xml:space="preserve">==solo works==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Old English Physiologus]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Old English Physiologus.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Long Lost Friend]]
| {{Index progress bar|The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu}}
|-
| [[Fairy Tales, Now First Collected]]
| {{Index progress bar|Fairy tales, now first collected by Joseph Ritson.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History and Description of the Isle of Man]]
| {{Index progress bar|The History and Description of the Isle of Man.djvu}}
|-
| [[A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly.djvu}}
|-
| [[New Guide to Health]]
| {{Index progress bar|New Guide to Health; or, Botanic Family Physician.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Ugly-Girl Papers]]
| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Relations of the Sexes (Duffey)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Relations of the Sexes by Eliza Bisbee Duffey.djvu}}
|-
| [[No Sex in Education]]
| {{Index progress bar|No Sex in Education.djvu}}
|-
| [[What Women Should Know]]
| {{Index progress bar|What Women Should Know.djvu}}
|-
| [[Boarding Round]]
| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
|}

===Artic works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The People of the Polar North]]
| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
| {{Index progress bar|Across Arctic America.djvu}}
|-
| [[Archæology of the Central Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Archæology of the Central Eskimos.djvu}}{{Index progress bar|The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture.djvu}}
|-
| [[Five Hundred Eskimo Words]]
| {{Index progress bar|Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu}}
|-
| [[Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Caribou Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|}

===Mormon works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[Mormonism Unvailed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
| [[Utah and the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|-
| [[Brigham's Destroying Angel]]
| {{Index progress bar|Brigham's destroying angel - being the life, confession, and startling disclosures of the notorious Bill Hickman, the Danite chief of Utah (IA brighamsdestroyi00hickrich).pdf}}
|-
| [[A Moses of the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Moses of the Mormons.djvu}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Art of Distillation]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
|-
| [[Ten Books on Architecture]]
| {{Index progress bar|Vitruvius the Ten Books on Architecture.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Aborigines of Victoria]]
| {{Index progress bar|Aboriginesofvictoria01.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Little Karoo]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Little Karoo (1925).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
|-
| [[Kama Sutra (Burton)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu}}
|}</text>
      <sha1>nxegn3we8gj1fs4rvb1jp4vi902wk45</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131860</id>
      <parentid>15131859</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:34:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Mormon works */</comment>
      <origin>15131860</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4476" sha1="ma0rungjkxu2iypjcmjk2vmyccj26v0" xml:space="preserve">==solo works==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Old English Physiologus]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Old English Physiologus.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Long Lost Friend]]
| {{Index progress bar|The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu}}
|-
| [[Fairy Tales, Now First Collected]]
| {{Index progress bar|Fairy tales, now first collected by Joseph Ritson.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History and Description of the Isle of Man]]
| {{Index progress bar|The History and Description of the Isle of Man.djvu}}
|-
| [[A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly.djvu}}
|-
| [[New Guide to Health]]
| {{Index progress bar|New Guide to Health; or, Botanic Family Physician.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Ugly-Girl Papers]]
| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Relations of the Sexes (Duffey)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Relations of the Sexes by Eliza Bisbee Duffey.djvu}}
|-
| [[No Sex in Education]]
| {{Index progress bar|No Sex in Education.djvu}}
|-
| [[What Women Should Know]]
| {{Index progress bar|What Women Should Know.djvu}}
|-
| [[Boarding Round]]
| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
|}

===Artic works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The People of the Polar North]]
| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
| {{Index progress bar|Across Arctic America.djvu}}
|-
| [[Archæology of the Central Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Archæology of the Central Eskimos.djvu}}{{Index progress bar|The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture.djvu}}
|-
| [[Five Hundred Eskimo Words]]
| {{Index progress bar|Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu}}
|-
| [[Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Caribou Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|}

===Early Mormon works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[Mormonism Unvailed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
| [[Utah and the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|-
| [[Brigham's Destroying Angel]]
| {{Index progress bar|Brigham's destroying angel - being the life, confession, and startling disclosures of the notorious Bill Hickman, the Danite chief of Utah (IA brighamsdestroyi00hickrich).pdf}}
|-
| [[A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons on Beaver Island]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[A Moses of the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Moses of the Mormons.djvu}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Art of Distillation]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
|-
| [[Ten Books on Architecture]]
| {{Index progress bar|Vitruvius the Ten Books on Architecture.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Aborigines of Victoria]]
| {{Index progress bar|Aboriginesofvictoria01.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Little Karoo]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Little Karoo (1925).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
|-
| [[Kama Sutra (Burton)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu}}
|}</text>
      <sha1>ma0rungjkxu2iypjcmjk2vmyccj26v0</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131864</id>
      <parentid>15131860</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:36:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* finished/cleaned up */</comment>
      <origin>15131864</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4561" sha1="q0dheuqneqjbj8hw03ms5gh2lkm6nh3" xml:space="preserve">==solo works==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Old English Physiologus]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Old English Physiologus.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Long Lost Friend]]
| {{Index progress bar|The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu}}
|-
| [[Fairy Tales, Now First Collected]]
| {{Index progress bar|Fairy tales, now first collected by Joseph Ritson.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History and Description of the Isle of Man]]
| {{Index progress bar|The History and Description of the Isle of Man.djvu}}
|-
| [[A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly.djvu}}
|-
| [[New Guide to Health]]
| {{Index progress bar|New Guide to Health; or, Botanic Family Physician.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Ugly-Girl Papers]]
| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Relations of the Sexes (Duffey)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Relations of the Sexes by Eliza Bisbee Duffey.djvu}}
|-
| [[No Sex in Education]]
| {{Index progress bar|No Sex in Education.djvu}}
|-
| [[What Women Should Know]]
| {{Index progress bar|What Women Should Know.djvu}}
|-
| [[Boarding Round]]
| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
|}

===Artic works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The People of the Polar North]]
| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
| {{Index progress bar|Across Arctic America.djvu}}
|-
| [[Archæology of the Central Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Archæology of the Central Eskimos.djvu}}{{Index progress bar|The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture.djvu}}
|-
| [[Five Hundred Eskimo Words]]
| {{Index progress bar|Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu}}
|-
| [[Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Caribou Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|}

===Early Mormon works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[Mormonism Unvailed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
| [[Utah and the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|-
| [[Brigham's Destroying Angel]]
| {{Index progress bar|Brigham's destroying angel - being the life, confession, and startling disclosures of the notorious Bill Hickman, the Danite chief of Utah (IA brighamsdestroyi00hickrich).pdf}}
|-
| [[A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons on Beaver Island]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[A Moses of the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Moses of the Mormons.djvu}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Art of Distillation]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
|-
| [[Ten Books on Architecture]]
| {{Index progress bar|Vitruvius the Ten Books on Architecture.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Aborigines of Victoria]]
| {{Index progress bar|Aboriginesofvictoria01.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Little Karoo]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Little Karoo (1925).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
|-
| [[The City of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The City of the Saints.djvu}}
|-
| [[Kama Sutra (Burton)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu}}
|}</text>
      <sha1>q0dheuqneqjbj8hw03ms5gh2lkm6nh3</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131875</id>
      <parentid>15131864</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:44:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <comment>/* finished/cleaned up */</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4666" sha1="qp31lnv40u3hjqoelug4of3s0iihgw9" xml:space="preserve">==solo works==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Old English Physiologus]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Old English Physiologus.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Life and Voyages of Captain James Cook (Young).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Long Lost Friend]]
| {{Index progress bar|The long lost friend, or, Faithful &amp; Christian instructions (0223252.nlm.nih.gov ,John George Hohman, 1850).djvu}}
|-
| [[Fairy Tales, Now First Collected]]
| {{Index progress bar|Fairy tales, now first collected by Joseph Ritson.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History and Description of the Isle of Man]]
| {{Index progress bar|The History and Description of the Isle of Man.djvu}}
|-
| [[A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Natural and Historical Account of the Islands of Scilly.djvu}}
|-
| [[New Guide to Health]]
| {{Index progress bar|New Guide to Health; or, Botanic Family Physician.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Ugly-Girl Papers]]
| {{Index progress bar|Ugly-girl papers.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Relations of the Sexes (Duffey)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Relations of the Sexes by Eliza Bisbee Duffey.djvu}}
|-
| [[No Sex in Education]]
| {{Index progress bar|No Sex in Education.djvu}}
|-
| [[What Women Should Know]]
| {{Index progress bar|What Women Should Know.djvu}}
|-
| [[Boarding Round]]
| {{Index progress bar|Boarding Round by John Otis Barrows.djvu}}
|}

===Artic works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The People of the Polar North]]
| {{Index progress bar|The People of the Polar North (1908).djvu}}
|-
| [[Greenland by the Polar Sea]]
| {{Index progress bar|Greenland by the Polar Sea.djvu}}
|-
| [[Across Arctic America]]
| {{Index progress bar|Across Arctic America.djvu}}
|-
| [[Archæology of the Central Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Archæology of the Central Eskimos.djvu}}{{Index progress bar|The Thule Culture and Its Position Within the Eskimo Culture.djvu}}
|-
| [[Five Hundred Eskimo Words]]
| {{Index progress bar|Five Hundred Eskimo Words.djvu}}
|-
| [[Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Material Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Caribou Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Caribou Eskimos.djvu}}
|-
| [[Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos]]
| {{Index progress bar|Intellectual Culture of the Iglulik Eskimos.djvu}}
|}

===Early Mormon works===
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[Mormonism Unvailed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Unvailed.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism its leaders and designs.djvu}}
|-
| [[Utah and the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|Utah-and-the-Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[Wife No. 19]]
| {{Index progress bar|Wife No 19.djvu}}
|-
| [[The History of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|History-of-the-saints-by-john-c.-bennett.djvu}}
|-
| [[Mormonism Portrayed]]
| {{Index progress bar|Mormonism Portrayed by William Harris.pdf}}
|-
| [[Brigham's Destroying Angel]]
| {{Index progress bar|Brigham's destroying angel - being the life, confession, and startling disclosures of the notorious Bill Hickman, the Danite chief of Utah (IA brighamsdestroyi00hickrich).pdf}}
|-
| [[A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons on Beaver Island]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu}}
|-
| [[A Moses of the Mormons]]
| {{Index progress bar|A Moses of the Mormons.djvu}}
|}

==finished/cleaned up==
{| class=wikitable
! title
!width=50%| progress
|-
| [[The Art of Distillation]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Art of Distillation, 1651.djvu}}
|-
| [[Spectacles and Eyeglasses]]
| {{Index progress bar|Spectacles and eyeglasses- their forms, mounting, and proper adjustment 1895 (2nd edition).pdf}}
|-
| [[Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings]]
| {{Index progress bar|Japanese Homes and their Surroundings 1885 by Edward S. Morse (1889 4th ed).pdf}}
|-
| [[Colorimetry]]
| {{Index progress bar|Colorimetry104nime.djvu}}
|-
| [[Ten Books on Architecture]]
| {{Index progress bar|Vitruvius the Ten Books on Architecture.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Aborigines of Victoria]]
| {{Index progress bar|Aboriginesofvictoria01.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Little Karoo]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Little Karoo (1925).djvu}}
|-
| [[The Rocky Mountain Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Rocky Mountain Saints.djvu}}
|-
| [[The City of the Saints]]
| {{Index progress bar|The City of the Saints.djvu}}
|-
| [[The Revolt of Islam]]
| {{Index progress bar|The revolt of Islam - (IA revoltofislam00shel).pdf}}
|-
| [[Kama Sutra (Burton)]]
| {{Index progress bar|The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana.djvu}}
|}</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu/72</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847408</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131796</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T16:55:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131796</origin>
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      <text bytes="2443" sha1="6ni4cobwydrymxc6nf2f0c7ykzsjmfk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|60|''The Beaux Stratagem''.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=same-line|end=stanza|Silence and Secresy, all conspire{{longdash}}And the now conscious Stars have preordain'd this Moment for my Happiness. {{rbstagedir|Takes her in his Arms.}}

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}You will not, cannot sure.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}If the sun rides fast, and disappoints not Mortals of to Morrow's Dawn, this Night shall crown my Joys.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}My Sex's Pride assist me.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}My Sex's Strength help me.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}You shall kill me first.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}I'll dye with you. {{rbstagedir|Carrying her off.}}

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Thieves, Thieves, Murther{{longdash}}

&lt;&gt;''Enter'' Scrub ''in his Breeches, and one Shoe.''

{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}Thieves, Thieves, Murther, Popery.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Ha! the very timorous Stag will kill in rutting time. {{rbstagedir|Draws, and offers to stab ''Scrub''.}}

{{em}}Scrub. [''Kneeling''.]{{em}}O, Pray, Sir, spare all I have and take my Life.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''. [''Holding'' Archer's ''Hand''.]{{em}}what do's the Fellow mean?

{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}O, Madam, down upon your Knees, your Marrow-bones{{longdash}}He's one of 'um.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Of whom?

{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}One of the Rogues—I beg your Pardon, Sir, one of the honest Gentlemen that just now are broke into the House.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}How!

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}I hope, you did not come to rob me?

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Indeed I did, Madam, but I wou'd have taken nothing but what you might ha' spar'd, but your crying Thieves has wak'd this dreaming Fool, and so he takes 'em for granted.

{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}Granted! 'tis granted, Sir, take all we have.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}The Fellow looks as if he were broke out of ''Bedlam''.

{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}Oons, Madam, they're broke into the House with Fire and Sword, I saw them, heard them, they'll be here this Minute.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}What, Thieves!

{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}Under Favour, Sir, I think so.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}What shall we do, Sir?

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Madam, I wish your Ladyship a good Night.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Will you leave me?

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Leave you! Lord, Madam, did not you command me to be gone just now upon pain of your immortal Hatred.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Nay, but pray, Sir{{longdash}} {{rbstagedir|Takes hold of him.}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|''Arch''.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Little tree</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847409</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131806</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:01:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>RaboKarbakian</username>
        <id>2427564</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>RaboKarbakian moved page [[Little tree]] to [[Seven Poems/little tree]]: Move within/to containing work</comment>
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      <text bytes="37" sha1="7uq6cmtto5x0sjpkco5rdfdz6rgvbpd" xml:space="preserve">#REDIRECT [[Seven Poems/little tree]]</text>
      <sha1>7uq6cmtto5x0sjpkco5rdfdz6rgvbpd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131825</id>
      <parentid>15131806</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:13:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>RaboKarbakian</username>
        <id>2427564</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Removed redirect to [[Seven Poems/little tree]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="187" sha1="3sphpawqkd201bl7wa3qnjz8coeq5ji" xml:space="preserve">{{versions|title=little tree|author=e. e. cummings}}

:[[Seven Poems/little tree|little tree]] in [[Seven Poems]] (1923)
:{{WD author|Q134889491}}


{{PD/US|pubyear=1923|deathyear=1962}}</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131849</id>
      <parentid>15131825</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:27:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>RaboKarbakian</username>
        <id>2427564</id>
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      <text bytes="197" sha1="p6x2h00ykl7rk7bookak5h0o64jm40m" xml:space="preserve">{{versions|title=little tree|author=e. e. cummings|year=1920}}

:[[Seven Poems/little tree|little tree]] in [[Seven Poems]] (1920)
:{{WD author|Q134889491}}


{{PD/US|pubyear=1923|deathyear=1962}}</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/212</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847410</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131807</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:03:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza |It was something I never could fathom, that mysterious prestige which they all seemed to think they'd got, like a halo around them, an invisible wall.  If ''you'' were willing to see it they were only to eager to grant you a similar glory, since you'd risen to their levels, my holy aunt!  But never, no never could I see it, and so I could never feel the proper unction about it, and it worried me a good deal.  For years and years it...</comment>
      <origin>15131807</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="718" sha1="hllaytvcag05ai1mh3glhbaktur9u7p" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|It was something I never could fathom,
that mysterious prestige which they all
seemed to think they'd got, like a halo
around them, an invisible wall.

If ''you'' were willing to see it
they were only to eager to grant
you a similar glory, since you'd risen
to their levels, my holy aunt!

But never, no never could I see it,
and so I could never feel
the proper unction about it,
and it worried me a good deal.

For years and years it bothered me
that I couldn't feel one of them,
till at last I saw the reason:
they were just a bloody sham.

As far as any superiority
or halo or prestige went
they were just a bloody collective fraud,
that was what their ''Ahem''! meant.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|192}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hllaytvcag05ai1mh3glhbaktur9u7p</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/48</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847411</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131808</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:04:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131808</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1160" sha1="cxx1dy7j8la24gcuazgi5wpppqbg6ar" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|Omdurman||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|
&quot;Oh God,&quot; I cried, &quot;what ails the universe?
What hell-born curse
Has stirred these gentle hearts to strike?
What anti-natural taint
Makes devil and saint
In hate and cruelty alike?&quot;

God did not answer; yet He was not dumb.
He only said:
&quot;The worst is still to come.&quot;
And then I seemed to see
With eyes of dread
A sight most monstrous and unwarranted.
For there appeared to me,
Sadder than aught that I beheld before{{mdash}}
Oh, blasphemy! A woman urging men to war
(Ah, that such a thing should be !){{mdash}}
A pure-browed maiden urging men to war!
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Woman and War&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;Omdurman&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''Omdurman'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=follow|
{{di|A}}RMY of ghouls, defilers of the tomb!
:Since king and clergy rent the rotting clay
:Of England's greatest ruler, has the day
Beheld a loathlier crime? Beneath that dome
Lay a brave Nubian Cromwell; one, of whom
:The prophets{{mdash}}David, Solomon{{mdash}}might say,
:&quot;He is our brother who have passed away;
Receive and do him honor in our room.&quot;
}}&lt;section end=&quot;Omdurman&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|44}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cxx1dy7j8la24gcuazgi5wpppqbg6ar</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/211</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847412</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131809</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:04:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza But of course I always heard them, and every time the same. They all of them always kept up their sleeve their class-superior claim.  Some narrow-gutted superiority, and trying to make you agree, which, for myself, I couldn't, it was all my-eye to me.  And so there came the saddest day when I had to tell myself plain: the upper classes are just a fraud, you'd better get down again.}} &lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;  &lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt; {{tp||P...</comment>
      <origin>15131809</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="757" sha1="b2p8iy1hegighw2zh89zbf07leum2dl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
But of course I always heard them,
and every time the same.
They all of them always kept up their sleeve
their class-superior claim.

Some narrow-gutted superiority,
and trying to make you agree,
which, for myself, I couldn't,
it was all my-eye to me.

And so there came the saddest day
when I had to tell myself plain:
the upper classes are just a fraud,
you'd better get down again.}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tp||PRESTIGE
|I Never met a single
middle-class person whose
nerves didn't tighten against me
as if they'd got something to lose.

Though what it was, you can ask me:
some mysterious sort of prestige
that was nothing to me; though they always
seemed to think I was laying it siege.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|191}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>b2p8iy1hegighw2zh89zbf07leum2dl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131810</id>
      <parentid>15131809</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:04:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15131810</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="758" sha1="qkvrgz1zhm8pr4xq7hg4sz1omgj5cya" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|But of course I always heard them,
and every time the same.
They all of them always kept up their sleeve
their class-superior claim.

Some narrow-gutted superiority,
and trying to make you agree,
which, for myself, I couldn't,
it was all my-eye to me.

And so there came the saddest day
when I had to tell myself plain:
the upper classes are just a fraud,
you'd better get down again.}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tp||PRESTIGE
|I Never met a single
middle-class person whose
nerves didn't tighten against me
as if they'd got something to lose.

Though what it was, you can ask me:
some mysterious sort of prestige
that was nothing to me; though they always
seemed to think I was laying it siege.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|191}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qkvrgz1zhm8pr4xq7hg4sz1omgj5cya</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131811</id>
      <parentid>15131810</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:05:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15131811</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="758" sha1="8nbqr3kvaqy7wlv8tzzabbe7bjsbeuw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|But of course I always heard them,
and every time the same.
They all of them always kept up their sleeve
their class-superior claim.

Some narrow-gutted superiority,
and trying to make you agree,
which, for myself, I couldn't,
it was all my-eye to me.

And so there came the saddest day
when I had to tell myself plain:
the upper classes are just a fraud,
you'd better get down again.}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|PRESTIGE
|I Never met a single
middle-class person whose
nerves didn't tighten against me
as if they'd got something to lose.

Though what it was, you can ask me:
some mysterious sort of prestige
that was nothing to me; though they always
seemed to think I was laying it siege.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|191}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8nbqr3kvaqy7wlv8tzzabbe7bjsbeuw</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/210</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847413</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131813</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:06:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza |So up I started climbing to join the folks on high, but when at last I got there I had to sit down and cry.  For it wasn't a bit superior, it was only affected and mean; though the house had a fine interior the people were never in.  I mean, they were never entirely there when you talked to them; away in some private cupboard some small voice went: ''Ahem!''  ''Ahem!'' they went. ''This fellow'' ''is a little too open for me;'' ''wi...</comment>
      <origin>15131813</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="712" sha1="c42c8bhvbx52z6zard7tv67m8ac6lyq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|So up I started climbing
to join the folks on high,
but when at last I got there
I had to sit down and cry.

For it wasn't a bit superior,
it was only affected and mean;
though the house had a fine interior
the people were never in.

I mean, they were never entirely
there when you talked to them;
away in some private cupboard
some small voice went: ''Ahem!''

''Ahem!'' they went. ''This fellow''
''is a little too open for me;''
''with such people one has to be careful''
''though of course, we won't let him see!''—

And they thought you couldn't hear them
privately coughing: ''Ahem!''
And they thought you couldn't see them
cautiously swallowing their phlegm!
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|190}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>c42c8bhvbx52z6zard7tv67m8ac6lyq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/49</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847414</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131814</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:07:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131814</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1146" sha1="7p4jlqvi1gf5ybw18vmye4vfaig6dwq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|||The Boer War}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{poem|start=follow|
Remember, if in days that come apace
:You see the rabble's devastating lust
Snatch from her sepulcher before your face
:Your gray-haired queen and drag her in the dust{{mash}}
Remember, while you blanch at such a doom,
Her lords and gentlemen before Khartoum.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Omdurman&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;The Boer War&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''The Boer War'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=stanza|
{{di|T}}HE Lion roars, who on his sea-girt isle
:Purrs ever gently at the Northern Bear
:Or Transatlantic Eagle when they dare
To beard him in his den. What stirs his bile
And wakes his sleeping courage for the while?
:Is it a squirrel or a reckless hare?
:Such are his favorite foemen everywhere,
Witness the Irrawaddy and the Nile.
{{dhri}}
Bold Dutchmen, in whose veins the blood still flows
:Of William, and whose daring calls to mind
The ancestral fame of your degenerate foes,
:Long may you wave the standard of mankind,
And never be your Fatherland controlled
By bullies maddened with the thirst for gold!
{{dhri}}
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The Boer War&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|45}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7p4jlqvi1gf5ybw18vmye4vfaig6dwq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131815</id>
      <parentid>15131814</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:08:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>ppoem</comment>
      <origin>15131815</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1148" sha1="tvs6gj8dakv7w06ckb4lkrujgz66g7l" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|||The Boer War}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|
Remember, if in days that come apace
:You see the rabble's devastating lust
Snatch from her sepulcher before your face
:Your gray-haired queen and drag her in the dust{{mdash}}
Remember, while you blanch at such a doom,
Her lords and gentlemen before Khartoum.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Omdurman&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;The Boer War&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''The Boer War'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=stanza|
{{di|T}}HE Lion roars, who on his sea-girt isle
:Purrs ever gently at the Northern Bear
:Or Transatlantic Eagle when they dare
To beard him in his den. What stirs his bile
And wakes his sleeping courage for the while?
:Is it a squirrel or a reckless hare?
:Such are his favorite foemen everywhere,
Witness the Irrawaddy and the Nile.
{{dhri}}
Bold Dutchmen, in whose veins the blood still flows
:Of William, and whose daring calls to mind
The ancestral fame of your degenerate foes,
:Long may you wave the standard of mankind,
And never be your Fatherland controlled
By bullies maddened with the thirst for gold!
{{dhri}}
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The Boer War&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|45}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tvs6gj8dakv7w06ckb4lkrujgz66g7l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131817</id>
      <parentid>15131815</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:09:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>end=follow</comment>
      <origin>15131817</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1148" sha1="ka7hcj7lyrj0fqe3qw447xgbeme72bc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|||The Boer War}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|
Remember, if in days that come apace
:You see the rabble's devastating lust
Snatch from her sepulcher before your face
:Your gray-haired queen and drag her in the dust{{mdash}}
Remember, while you blanch at such a doom,
Her lords and gentlemen before Khartoum.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Omdurman&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;The Boer War&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''The Boer War'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=follow|
{{di|T}}HE Lion roars, who on his sea-girt isle
:Purrs ever gently at the Northern Bear
:Or Transatlantic Eagle when they dare
To beard him in his den. What stirs his bile
And wakes his sleeping courage for the while?
:Is it a squirrel or a reckless hare?
:Such are his favorite foemen everywhere,
Witness the Irrawaddy and the Nile.
{{dhri}}
Bold Dutchmen, in whose veins the blood still flows
:Of William, and whose daring calls to mind
The ancestral fame of your degenerate foes,
:Long may you wave the standard of mankind,
And never be your Fatherland controlled
By bullies maddened with the thirst for gold!
{{dhri}}
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The Boer War&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|45}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ka7hcj7lyrj0fqe3qw447xgbeme72bc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131823</id>
      <parentid>15131817</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:13:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>spacing</comment>
      <origin>15131823</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1140" sha1="bw6783sq0lqasqcu79s3d4vje4vdejn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|||The Boer War}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|
Remember, if in days that come apace
:You see the rabble's devastating lust
Snatch from her sepulcher before your face
:Your gray-haired queen and drag her in the dust{{mdash}}
Remember, while you blanch at such a doom,
Her lords and gentlemen before Khartoum.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Omdurman&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;The Boer War&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''The Boer War'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=follow|
{{di|T}}HE Lion roars, who on his sea-girt isle
:Purrs ever gently at the Northern Bear
:Or Transatlantic Eagle when they dare
To beard him in his den. What stirs his bile
And wakes his sleeping courage for the while?
:Is it a squirrel or a reckless hare?
:Such are his favorite foemen everywhere,
Witness the Irrawaddy and the Nile.

Bold Dutchmen, in whose veins the blood still flows
:Of William, and whose daring calls to mind
The ancestral fame of your degenerate foes,
:Long may you wave the standard of mankind,
And never be your Fatherland controlled
By bullies maddened with the thirst for gold!
{{dhri}}
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The Boer War&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|45}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bw6783sq0lqasqcu79s3d4vje4vdejn</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/209</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847415</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131816</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:09:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza |If there's anything got to be done, why get up an' do it yourselves! Though God knows if you're any better, sittin' there in rows on your shelves!  An' if you're not any better, if you've none of you got more spunk than they've got in the upper classes, why, let's all of us do a bunk.  We're not fit for the earth we live on, we're not fit for the air we breathe. We'd better get out, an' make way for the babes just beginning to teeth...</comment>
      <origin>15131816</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="798" sha1="fxm82f8oyeiwrvleqpf2sz8g54xq0cq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|If there's anything got to be done, why
get up an' do it yourselves!
Though God knows if you're any better,
sittin' there in rows on your shelves!

An' if you're not any better,
if you've none of you got more spunk
than they've got in the upper classes,
why, let's all of us do a bunk.

We're not fit for the earth we live on,
we're not fit for the air we breathe.
We'd better get out, an' make way for
the babes just beginning to teethe.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|THE SADDEST DAY
|&quot;We climbed the steep ascent to heaven
::Through peril, toil and pain.
O God to us may strength be given
::To scramble back again.&quot;

O I was born low and inferior
but shining up beyond
I saw the whole superior
world shine like the promised land.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|189}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fxm82f8oyeiwrvleqpf2sz8g54xq0cq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/286</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847416</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131820</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:11:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lamin Bayo</username>
        <id>3175909</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;Tascosa. I have news for you. I know what you're here for.&quot; This mysterious fellow was talking in riddles. Poe wondered if his misfortunes might not have unhinged his mind. you,&quot; &quot;But I'd be killed if it was ever found out I told Graham added. &quot;You must give me your word you'll never mention my name. Poe promised secrecy. دو Graham looked in all directions to make sure no one was in sight. &quot;All right,&quot; he said. &quot;Here it is. Billy the Kid is in Fort Sumne...</comment>
      <origin>15131820</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1504" sha1="28f6cn5aeei8jqt2h7139wlotimm8ei" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;
272
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;Tascosa. I have news for you. I know what you're
here for.&quot; This mysterious fellow was talking in riddles. Poe
wondered if his misfortunes might not have unhinged his
mind. you,&quot; &quot;But I'd be killed if it was ever found out I told
Graham added. &quot;You must give me your word you'll
never mention my name. Poe promised secrecy. دو Graham looked in all directions to make sure no one was in sight.
&quot;All right,&quot; he said. &quot;Here it is. Billy the Kid is in
Fort Sumner!&quot;
The words gave Poe a thrill.
&quot;What makes you think that?&quot; he asked.
&quot;Listen. You know the Dedrick boys? They have
been friends of the Kid for years. The Kid used to hang
out at their ranch over in the Bosque Grande country.
Whenever he came to White Oaks he made their livery
stable his headquarters. Last night, when I had gone to
bed in the haymow, I overheard Sam and Dan Dedrick
speaking about the Kid. They know where he is. They
said he has been in White Oaks since his escape at Lincoln.&quot;
Poe smiled incredulously.
&quot;I'm telling you what they said,&quot; insisted Graham.
&quot;Believe it or not. The Kid, they said, has been right
here in White Oaks. They kept him hid in their livery
barn several days. What do you think of that? And
you walking past the barn a dozen times a day and within
a few feet of him. Ever since he killed his guards and
away, the Kid, the Dedricks said, has been hanging around
Fort Sumner. Expects to skip to Mexico some time soon.
But he hasn't gone yet. He's in Fort Sumner now.&quot;
got&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>28f6cn5aeei8jqt2h7139wlotimm8ei</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131822</id>
      <parentid>15131820</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:13:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lamin Bayo</username>
        <id>3175909</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131822</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1504" sha1="bm7af7ox43fbs0z47g1y4g5kl429m6j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;
272
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;Tascosa. I have news for you. I know what you're
here for.&quot; This mysterious fellow was talking in riddles. Poe
wondered if his misfortunes might not have unhinged his
mind. you,&quot; &quot;But I'd be killed if it was ever found out I told
Graham added. &quot;You must give me your word you'll
never mention my name. Poe promised secrecy. دو Graham looked in all directions to make sure no one was in sight.
&quot;All right,&quot; he said. &quot;Here it is. Billy the Kid is in
Fort Sumner!&quot; The words gave Poe a thrill. &quot;What makes you think that?&quot; he asked. &quot;Listen. You know the Dedrick boys? They have been friends of the Kid for years. The Kid used to hang out at their ranch over in the Bosque Grande country.
Whenever he came to White Oaks he made their livery
stable his headquarters. Last night, when I had gone to
bed in the haymow, I overheard Sam and Dan Dedrick
speaking about the Kid. They know where he is. They
said he has been in White Oaks since his escape at Lincoln.&quot;
Poe smiled incredulously.
&quot;I'm telling you what they said,&quot; insisted Graham.
&quot;Believe it or not. The Kid, they said, has been right
here in White Oaks. They kept him hid in their livery
barn several days. What do you think of that? And
you walking past the barn a dozen times a day and within
a few feet of him. Ever since he killed his guards and
away, the Kid, the Dedricks said, has been hanging around
Fort Sumner. Expects to skip to Mexico some time soon.
But he hasn't gone yet. He's in Fort Sumner now.&quot;
got&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bm7af7ox43fbs0z47g1y4g5kl429m6j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131824</id>
      <parentid>15131822</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:13:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lamin Bayo</username>
        <id>3175909</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131824</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1504" sha1="m95n29rbxxe3612wsembffjj77bcbyo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;
272
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;Tascosa. I have news for you. I know what you're
here for.&quot; This mysterious fellow was talking in riddles. Poe
wondered if his misfortunes might not have unhinged his
mind. you,&quot; &quot;But I'd be killed if it was ever found out I told
Graham added. &quot;You must give me your word you'll
never mention my name. Poe promised secrecy. دو Graham looked in all directions to make sure no one was in sight.
&quot;All right,&quot; he said. &quot;Here it is. Billy the Kid is in
Fort Sumner!&quot; The words gave Poe a thrill. &quot;What makes you think that?&quot; he asked. &quot;Listen. You know the Dedrick boys? They have been friends of the Kid for years. The Kid used to hang out at their ranch over in the Bosque Grande country.
Whenever he came to White Oaks he made their livery stable his headquarters. Last night, when I had gone to bed in the haymow, I overheard Sam and Dan Dedrick speaking about the Kid. They know where he is. They said he has been in White Oaks since his escape at Lincoln.&quot; Poe smiled incredulously.
&quot;I'm telling you what they said,&quot; insisted Graham.
&quot;Believe it or not. The Kid, they said, has been right
here in White Oaks. They kept him hid in their livery
barn several days. What do you think of that? And
you walking past the barn a dozen times a day and within
a few feet of him. Ever since he killed his guards and
away, the Kid, the Dedricks said, has been hanging around
Fort Sumner. Expects to skip to Mexico some time soon.
But he hasn't gone yet. He's in Fort Sumner now.&quot;
got&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>m95n29rbxxe3612wsembffjj77bcbyo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131827</id>
      <parentid>15131824</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:14:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lamin Bayo</username>
        <id>3175909</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131827</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1504" sha1="44ajqym2xi3fpeuqpjhbblyb2pjum63" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;
272
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;Tascosa. I have news for you. I know what you're
here for.&quot; This mysterious fellow was talking in riddles. Poe
wondered if his misfortunes might not have unhinged his
mind. you,&quot; &quot;But I'd be killed if it was ever found out I told
Graham added. &quot;You must give me your word you'll
never mention my name. Poe promised secrecy. دو Graham looked in all directions to make sure no one was in sight.
&quot;All right,&quot; he said. &quot;Here it is. Billy the Kid is in
Fort Sumner!&quot; The words gave Poe a thrill. &quot;What makes you think that?&quot; he asked. &quot;Listen. You know the Dedrick boys? They have been friends of the Kid for years. The Kid used to hang out at their ranch over in the Bosque Grande country.
Whenever he came to White Oaks he made their livery stable his headquarters. Last night, when I had gone to bed in the haymow, I overheard Sam and Dan Dedrick speaking about the Kid. They know where he is. They said he has been in White Oaks since his escape at Lincoln.&quot; Poe smiled incredulously.
&quot;I'm telling you what they said,&quot; insisted Graham. &quot;Believe it or not. The Kid, they said, has been right here in White Oaks. They kept him hid in their livery barn several days. What do you think of that? And you walking past the barn a dozen times a day and within a few feet of him. Ever since he killed his guards and away, the Kid, the Dedricks said, has been hanging around Fort Sumner. Expects to skip to Mexico some time soon.
But he hasn't gone yet. He's in Fort Sumner now.&quot; got&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>44ajqym2xi3fpeuqpjhbblyb2pjum63</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/50</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847417</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131821</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:12:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131821</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1072" sha1="d4nriev8vpfd9e004cb2x2puuuvu5f1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|The Boer War||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=stanza|
&lt;&gt;{{smaller|II}}
{{di|S}}WORD of the Irish, tempered by the sun
:Of torrid Hindustan and by the snows
:Of chill Quebec, who are the various foes,
Or north or south or east or west, undone
By your stern prowess? Do fell tyrants run
:Before your bloody blade, or is it those
:Whom Britain longs to crush that you oppose,
Winning new lands of slaves as yours was won?

O ye, who never yet have fought so well
:For your own freedom as ye do to fix
Your chains on fellow nations, hear your knell
:In the deep-muttered blasphemies that mix
With the last gasp of slaughtered Boers who call
Vengeance from hell on thralls who would enthrall.
{{dhri}}
&lt;&gt;{{smaller|III}}
{{di|W}}HY is Columbia silent, tho the hordes
:Of hungry Britain overrun the veldt{{mdash}}
:Columbia, whose soft heart was wont to melt
At every tale that history records
Of down-trod peoples and oppressive lords,
:Whose sympathy lorn Kosciusko felt;
:While Bolivar and Kossuth, Greek and Kelt,
Found her voice mightier than ten thousand swords?
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|46}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>d4nriev8vpfd9e004cb2x2puuuvu5f1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/51</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847418</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131829</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:16:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131829</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1196" sha1="cwtubeg70imx49skid3xwflab0nc1fh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|Dryfus &quot;Guilty&quot;||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|
Why is she deaf to cries for help to-day,
:Such as had rent her very soul in twain
In happier times? See how she turns away
:From Kruger, pleading for her aid in vain!
Alas, no longer first of freedom's lands,
She turns away to hide her bloody hands!
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The Boer War&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;Dreyfus Guilty&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''Dreyfus &quot;Guilty&quot;'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=follow|
{{di|H|fl=&quot;}}ONOR&quot; the child of forgeries and lies{{mdash}}
&quot;Glory,&quot; a dream of all-devouring hate
And carnage and revenge insatiate{{mdash}}
&quot;Patriotism,&quot; the sum of vanities{{mdash}}
These be the jewels, O France, thy rulers prize;
:These be the principles of which they prate,
:Bewitched by epithets that once were great,
But careless when the substance of them dies.

What do I hear? Is it the rising flood
:Of some new Terror gathering in the night?
The sea breeze bears a sickening smell of blood,
:And foaming redness mingles with the white.
O horror! Yet could less obliterate
The festering pool of Army, Church, and State?
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Dreyfus Guilty&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section end=&quot;Dreyfus Guilty&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|47}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cwtubeg70imx49skid3xwflab0nc1fh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/208</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847419</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131830</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:16:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{{poem|start=follow |it damn well wasn't worth it, goin' up an' bein' refined; it was nowt but a dirty sell, that's all, a ''damn fraud'', underlined.  They're not any better than we are the upper classes—they're worse. Such bloomin' fat-arsed dool-owls they aren't even fit to curse!  There isn't a damn thing in 'em, they're as empty as empty tins; they haven't the spunk of a battle-twig, an' all they can think of is sins.  No, there's nowt in the upper...</comment>
      <origin>15131830</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="708" sha1="dh7yrn91mj903z5jxfalxo2h6z8bzk0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{{poem|start=follow
|it damn well wasn't worth it,
goin' up an' bein' refined;
it was nowt but a dirty sell, that's all,
a ''damn fraud'', underlined.

They're not any better than we are
the upper classes—they're worse.
Such bloomin' fat-arsed dool-owls
they aren't even fit to curse!

There isn't a damn thing in 'em,
they're as empty as empty tins;
they haven't the spunk of a battle-twig,
an' all they can think of is sins.

No, there's nowt in the upper classes
as far as.Vcap find:
a worse lot o' jujubey asses
than the lot I left behind.

They'll never do a thing, boys,
they can't, they're simply fused.
So if any of you's live wires, with wits
to use, they'd better be used.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|188}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dh7yrn91mj903z5jxfalxo2h6z8bzk0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131831</id>
      <parentid>15131830</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:16:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131831</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="708" sha1="71cyionffl0ogne9liuufsfj9xrqh75" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow
|it damn well wasn't worth it,
goin' up an' bein' refined;
it was nowt but a dirty sell, that's all,
a ''damn fraud'', underlined.

They're not any better than we are
the upper classes—they're worse.
Such bloomin' fat-arsed dool-owls
they aren't even fit to curse!

There isn't a damn thing in 'em,
they're as empty as empty tins;
they haven't the spunk of a battle-twig,
an' all they can think of is sins.

No, there's nowt in the upper classes
as far as.Vcap find:
a worse lot o' jujubey asses
than the lot I left behind.

They'll never do a thing, boys,
they can't, they're simply fused.
So if any of you's live wires, with wits
to use, they'd better be used.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|188}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>71cyionffl0ogne9liuufsfj9xrqh75</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Swords and Plowshares/Woman and War</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847420</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131833</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:17:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>transclude poem</comment>
      <origin>15131833</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="447" sha1="t30jj30qfyfuiop0a67oarv7n6ta4yn" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = Woman and War
 | previous    = [[../The Peace Congress/]]
 | next        = [[../The Boer War/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf&quot; from=47 to=48 fromsection=&quot;Woman and War&quot; tosection=&quot;Woman and War&quot; /&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t30jj30qfyfuiop0a67oarv7n6ta4yn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131835</id>
      <parentid>15131833</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:18:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>fix next link</comment>
      <origin>15131835</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="443" sha1="8y23oub27uqyp9h9ktpsc20h5oytj0y" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = Woman and War
 | previous    = [[../The Peace Congress/]]
 | next        = [[../Omdurman/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf&quot; from=47 to=48 fromsection=&quot;Woman and War&quot; tosection=&quot;Woman and War&quot; /&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8y23oub27uqyp9h9ktpsc20h5oytj0y</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/207</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847421</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131834</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:18:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza |God, let me get down to earth again away from the upper ten millions—for there's millions of 'em up there—but not any men. }} &lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;  &lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt; {{tpp|UP HE GOES!— |Up I rose, my lads, an' I heard yer sayin': Up he goes!  Up like a bloomin' little Excelsior in his Sunday clothes!  Up he goes, up the bloomin' ladder about to the giddy top! Who'd ever have thought it of that lad, a pasty little snot!—  Never yo...</comment>
      <origin>15131834</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="616" sha1="2knjj31xmksfhd0g7n7rguk5z4sy3ei" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|God, let me get down to earth again
away from the upper ten
millions—for there's millions of 'em
up there—but not any men.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|UP HE GOES!—
|Up I rose, my lads, an' I heard yer
sayin': Up he goes!

Up like a bloomin' little Excelsior
in his Sunday clothes!

Up he goes, up the bloomin' ladder
about to the giddy top!
Who'd ever have thought it of that lad, a
pasty little snot!—

Never you mind, my lads, I left you
a long long way behind.
You'll none of you rise in the world like I did;
an' if you did, you'd find
|end-follow}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|187}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2knjj31xmksfhd0g7n7rguk5z4sy3ei</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Swords and Plowshares/Omdurman</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847422</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131836</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:19:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>transclude poem</comment>
      <origin>15131836</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="427" sha1="jk1uyvp96wsrvckmrakmpg9ghlh2nau" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = Omdurman
 | previous    = [[../Woman and War/]]
 | next        = [[../The Boer War/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf&quot; from=48 to=49 fromsection=&quot;Omdurman&quot; tosection=&quot;Omdurman&quot; /&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jk1uyvp96wsrvckmrakmpg9ghlh2nau</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Swords and Plowshares/The Boer War</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847423</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131837</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:20:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>transclude poem</comment>
      <origin>15131837</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="438" sha1="mdne2lac7lazq01l9i0qkdkj39jauck" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = The Boer War
 | previous    = [[../Omdurman/]]
 | next        = [[../Dreyfus &quot;Guilty&quot;/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf&quot; from=49 to=51 fromsection=&quot;The Boer War&quot; tosection=&quot;The Boer War&quot; /&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mdne2lac7lazq01l9i0qkdkj39jauck</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Swords and Plowshares/Dreyfus &quot;Guilty&quot;</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847424</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131841</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:21:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>transclude poem</comment>
      <origin>15131841</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="415" sha1="pr7jpmwfxrpgp03z7pknudpqg2wgl23" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = Dreyfus &quot;Guilty&quot;
 | previous    = [[../The Boer War/]]
 | next        = [[../The Epitaph/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf&quot; include=51 onlysection=&quot;Dreyfus Guilty&quot; /&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pr7jpmwfxrpgp03z7pknudpqg2wgl23</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/287</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847425</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131843</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:23:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lamin Bayo</username>
        <id>3175909</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;Poe hardly knew what to think. The information was, at least, impressive. &quot;What you tell me may be true,&quot; he said at length. &quot;But it's hard to believe. However, it may be worth investigating. Here's a dollar for you. Go buy yourself a few drinks.&quot; So Billy the Kid was betrayed for a silver dollar by a rum-soaked bum of the boozing-kens. Four drinks of whisky, according to current quotations in White Oaks bars, was the price paid for the secret upon which...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1539" sha1="84tw606cilknrkdq504ukiy8u1vv88l" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
273&lt;/noinclude&gt;Poe hardly knew what to think. The information was, at least, impressive. &quot;What you tell me may be true,&quot; he said at length.
&quot;But it's hard to believe. However, it may be worth investigating. Here's a dollar for you. Go buy yourself a few drinks.&quot; So Billy the Kid was betrayed for a silver dollar by a rum-soaked bum of the boozing-kens. Four drinks of
whisky, according to current quotations in White Oaks
bars, was the price paid for the secret upon which his life
hung as by a hair. Poe walked in on Garrett in Lincoln next day. &quot;I don't believe it,&quot; said Garrett. &quot;Neither do I,&quot; replied Poe. &quot;But let's take a chance.&quot;
&quot;Humph!&quot; Garrett rubbed his nose reflectively.
&quot;Well, we'll go. But I warn you it'll be just another wild-
goose chase.&quot;
Sheriff Garrett and Poe rode into Roswell next day and
laid the clue before Tip McKinney, one of Garrett's
deputies, a veteran man-hunter hailing from Uvalde in
Texas.
&quot;I don't take any more stock in it than you fellows,&quot;
said McKinney. &quot;There's about as much chance of the
Kid being in Fort Sumner as of me flying to the moon.&quot;
But that evening at sundown the expedition of the three
sceptics started from Roswell. They headed toward
Lincoln to avert suspicion as to their destination. Ten
miles out, they turned sharply to the north. That way
Fort Sumner lay.
They rode till midnight, when they picketed their
horses and slept on their saddle-blankets. Next day they
travelled fifty-five miles and camped for the night in the
sandhills six miles from Fort Sumner.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>84tw606cilknrkdq504ukiy8u1vv88l</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131846</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:25:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lamin Bayo</username>
        <id>3175909</id>
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      <text bytes="1538" sha1="t50zdh6wtq11okaf9uiw5gi18b4rx41" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
273&lt;/noinclude&gt;Poe hardly knew what to think. The information was, at least, impressive. &quot;What you tell me may be true,&quot; he said at length.
&quot;But it's hard to believe. However, it may be worth investigating. Here's a dollar for you. Go buy yourself a few drinks.&quot; So Billy the Kid was betrayed for a silver dollar by a rum-soaked bum of the boozing-kens. Four drinks of
whisky, according to current quotations in White Oaks
bars, was the price paid for the secret upon which his life
hung as by a hair. Poe walked in on Garrett in Lincoln next day. &quot;I don't believe it,&quot; said Garrett. &quot;Neither do I,&quot; replied Poe. &quot;But let's take a chance.&quot; &quot;Humph!&quot; Garrett rubbed his nose reflectively. &quot;Well, we'll go. But I warn you it'll be just another wild goose chase.&quot; Sheriff Garrett and Poe rode into Roswell next day and laid the clue before Tip McKinney, one of Garrett's deputies, a veteran man-hunter hailing from Uvalde in Texas. &quot;I don't take any more stock in it than you fellows,&quot; said McKinney. &quot;There's about as much chance of the Kid being in Fort Sumner as of me flying to the moon.&quot; But that evening at sundown the expedition of the three
sceptics started from Roswell. They headed toward
Lincoln to avert suspicion as to their destination. Ten
miles out, they turned sharply to the north. That way
Fort Sumner lay.
They rode till midnight, when they picketed their
horses and slept on their saddle-blankets. Next day they
travelled fifty-five miles and camped for the night in the
sandhills six miles from Fort Sumner.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t50zdh6wtq11okaf9uiw5gi18b4rx41</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131848</id>
      <parentid>15131846</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:26:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lamin Bayo</username>
        <id>3175909</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131848</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1538" sha1="7v0hoa4h5ldurkg3nme38bpbvqcpu85" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Lamin Bayo&quot; /&gt;THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
273&lt;/noinclude&gt;Poe hardly knew what to think. The information was, at least, impressive. &quot;What you tell me may be true,&quot; he said at length.
&quot;But it's hard to believe. However, it may be worth investigating. Here's a dollar for you. Go buy yourself a few drinks.&quot; So Billy the Kid was betrayed for a silver dollar by a rum-soaked bum of the boozing-kens. Four drinks of
whisky, according to current quotations in White Oaks
bars, was the price paid for the secret upon which his life
hung as by a hair. Poe walked in on Garrett in Lincoln next day. &quot;I don't believe it,&quot; said Garrett. &quot;Neither do I,&quot; replied Poe. &quot;But let's take a chance.&quot; &quot;Humph!&quot; Garrett rubbed his nose reflectively. &quot;Well, we'll go. But I warn you it'll be just another wild goose chase.&quot; Sheriff Garrett and Poe rode into Roswell next day and laid the clue before Tip McKinney, one of Garrett's deputies, a veteran man-hunter hailing from Uvalde in Texas. &quot;I don't take any more stock in it than you fellows,&quot; said McKinney. &quot;There's about as much chance of the Kid being in Fort Sumner as of me flying to the moon.&quot; But that evening at sundown the expedition of the three
sceptics started from Roswell. They headed toward Lincoln to avert suspicion as to their destination. Ten miles out, they turned sharply to the north. That way Fort Sumner lay.
They rode till midnight, when they picketed their horses and slept on their saddle-blankets. Next day they travelled fifty-five miles and camped for the night in the sandhills six miles from Fort Sumner.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7v0hoa4h5ldurkg3nme38bpbvqcpu85</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/206</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847426</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131844</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:24:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza |Tell me what's wrong with words or with you that you don't mind the thing yet the name is taboo.}} &lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;  &lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt; {{tp|A RISE IN THE WORLD— |I rose up in the world, Ooray! rose very high, for me. An earl once asked me down to stay and a duchess once came to tea.  I didn't stay very long with the earl and the duchess has done with me. But still, I rose quite high in the world don't you think?—or don't you...</comment>
      <origin>15131844</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="755" sha1="j5wv064yyztzrjtbvc3dv3j2if7baoi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|Tell me what's wrong
with words or with you
that you don't mind the thing
yet the name is taboo.}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tp|A RISE IN THE WORLD—
|I rose up in the world, Ooray!
rose very high, for me.
An earl once asked me down to stay
and a duchess once came to tea.

I didn't stay very long with the earl
and the duchess has done with me.
But still, I rose quite high in the world
don't you think?—or don't you agree?

But now I am slithering down again
down the trunk of the slippery tree;
I find I'd rather get back to earth,
where I belong, you see.

Up there I didn't like it,
chattering, though not with glee
the whole of the time, and nothing
mattering—at least, not to me.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|186}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>j5wv064yyztzrjtbvc3dv3j2if7baoi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131866</id>
      <parentid>15131844</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:37:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15131866</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="756" sha1="3vh6pn5z70s01ldq02s1gozr6wi4mpi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza
|Tell me what's wrong
with words or with you
that you don't mind the thing
yet the name is taboo.}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot; /&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot; /&gt;
{{tpp|A RISE IN THE WORLD—
|I rose up in the world, Ooray!
rose very high, for me.
An earl once asked me down to stay
and a duchess once came to tea.

I didn't stay very long with the earl
and the duchess has done with me.
But still, I rose quite high in the world
don't you think?—or don't you agree?

But now I am slithering down again
down the trunk of the slippery tree;
I find I'd rather get back to earth,
where I belong, you see.

Up there I didn't like it,
chattering, though not with glee
the whole of the time, and nothing
mattering—at least, not to me.
|end=stanza}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|186}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3vh6pn5z70s01ldq02s1gozr6wi4mpi</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/850</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847428</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131861</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:35:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|{{larger|''He?*''}}}}  {{sc|My}} deal: friend, you cannot understand it by any possible means, you say, and I perfectly believe you. You  think I am going mad? It may be so, but not for the reasons which you suppose.   Yes, I am going to get married, and I will tell you what has led me to take that step.   My ideas and my convictions have  not changed at all. I look upon all  legalized cohabitation as utterly stupid,  for I am certain that nine husba...</comment>
      <origin>15131861</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3148" sha1="0m08py41mjn4v18oengi6y8t49rey2l" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||WORKS OF GUY DE MAUPASSANT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{larger|''He?*''}}}}

{{sc|My}} deal: friend, you cannot understand it by any possible means, you say, and I perfectly believe you. You 
think I am going mad? It may be so, but not for the reasons which you suppose. 

Yes, I am going to get married, and I will tell you what has led me to take that step. 

My ideas and my convictions have 
not changed at all. I look upon all 
legalized cohabitation as utterly stupid, 
for I am certain that nine husbands out 
of ten are cuckolds; and they get no 
more than their deserts for having been 
idiotic enough to fetter their lives and 
renounce their freedom in love, the only 
happy and good thing in the world, and 
for having clipped the wings of fancy 
which continually drives us on toward 
all women. You know what I mean. 
More than ever I feel that I am in- 
capable of loving one woman alone, be- 
cause I shall always adore all the others 
too much. I should like to have a 
thousand arms, a thousand mouths, and 
a thousand — temperaments, to be able to 
strain an army of these charming 
creatures in my embrace at the same 
moment. 

And yet I am going to get married! 

I may add that I know very little of 
the girl who is going to become my 
wife to-morrow; I have only seen her 
four or five times. I know that there 
is nothing unpleasant about her, and 
that is enough for my purpose. She is 
small, fair, and stout; so of course the 
day after to-morrow I shall ardently 
wish for a tall, dark, thin w^oman. 

She is not rich, and belongs to the 
rciddle classes. She is a girl sudb as 

you m.ay find by the gross, well adapted 
for matrimony, without any apparent 
faults, and with no particularly strik- 
ing qualities. People say of her: &quot;Mile. 
Lajolle is a very nice girl,&quot; and to- 
morrow they will say: &quot;What a very 
nice woman Madame Raymon is.&quot; She 
belongs, in a word, to that immense 
number of girls who make very good 
wives for us till the moment comes 
when we discover that we happen to 
prefer all other women to that par- 
ticular woman we married. 

&quot;Well,&quot; you will say to me, &quot;what on 
earth do you get married for?&quot; 

I hardly like to tell vou the strange 
ana seemmgly improbable reason that 
urged me on to this senseless act; the 
fact, however, is that I am frightened 
of being alone! 

I don't know how to tell you or to 
make you understand me, but my state 
of mind is so wretched that you will 
pity and despise me. 

I do not want to be alone any longer 
at night; I want to feel that there is 
some one close to me touching me, a 
being who can speak and say something, 
no matter what it be. 

I wish to be able to avaken somebody 
by my side, so that I may be able to ask 
some sudden question even, if I feel in- 
clined, so that I may hear a human 
voice, and feel that there is some wak- 
ing soul close to me, some one whose 

*It was in this story that the first 
gleams of De Maupassant's approaching 
madness became apparent. Thencefor- 
ward he began to revel in the strange and 
terrible, until his malady nad seized him 
wholly. &quot;The Diary of a Madman,&quot; is 
in a similar veia 
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|816}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0m08py41mjn4v18oengi6y8t49rey2l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131873</id>
      <parentid>15131861</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:43:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131873</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3133" sha1="5uh0zhreo60erb92g9qmujvgi4td19o" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||WORKS OF GUY DE MAUPASSANT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{larger|''He?*''}}}}

{{sc|My}} dear friend, you cannot understand it by any possible means, you say, and I perfectly believe you. You 
think I am going mad? It may be so, but not for the reasons which you suppose. 

Yes, I am going to get married, and I will tell you what has led me to take that step. 

My ideas and my convictions have not changed at all. I look upon all legalized cohabitation as utterly stupid, 
for I am certain that nine husbands out of ten are cuckolds; and they get no more than their deserts for having been 
idiotic enough to fetter their lives and renounce their freedom in love, the only happy and good thing in the world, and 
for having clipped the wings of fancy which continually drives us on toward all women. You know what I mean. 
More than ever I feel that I am incapable of loving one woman alone, because I shall always adore all the others 
too much. I should like to have a thousand arms, a thousand mouths, and a thousand — ''temperaments'', to be able to 
strain an army of these charming creatures in my embrace at the same moment. 

And yet I am going to get married! 

I may add that I know very little of 
the girl who is going to become my 
wife to-morrow; I have only seen her 
four or five times. I know that there 
is nothing unpleasant about her, and 
that is enough for my purpose. She is 
small, fair, and stout; so of course the 
day after to-morrow I shall ardently 
wish for a tall, dark, thin w^oman. 

She is not rich, and belongs to the 
rciddle classes. She is a girl sudb as 

you m.ay find by the gross, well adapted 
for matrimony, without any apparent 
faults, and with no particularly strik- 
ing qualities. People say of her: &quot;Mile. 
Lajolle is a very nice girl,&quot; and to- 
morrow they will say: &quot;What a very 
nice woman Madame Raymon is.&quot; She 
belongs, in a word, to that immense 
number of girls who make very good 
wives for us till the moment comes 
when we discover that we happen to 
prefer all other women to that par- 
ticular woman we married. 

&quot;Well,&quot; you will say to me, &quot;what on 
earth do you get married for?&quot; 

I hardly like to tell vou the strange 
ana seemmgly improbable reason that 
urged me on to this senseless act; the 
fact, however, is that I am frightened 
of being alone! 

I don't know how to tell you or to 
make you understand me, but my state 
of mind is so wretched that you will 
pity and despise me. 

I do not want to be alone any longer 
at night; I want to feel that there is 
some one close to me touching me, a 
being who can speak and say something, 
no matter what it be. 

I wish to be able to avaken somebody 
by my side, so that I may be able to ask 
some sudden question even, if I feel in- 
clined, so that I may hear a human 
voice, and feel that there is some wak- 
ing soul close to me, some one whose 

*It was in this story that the first 
gleams of De Maupassant's approaching 
madness became apparent. Thencefor- 
ward he began to revel in the strange and 
terrible, until his malady nad seized him 
wholly. &quot;The Diary of a Madman,&quot; is 
in a similar veia 
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|816}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5uh0zhreo60erb92g9qmujvgi4td19o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131879</id>
      <parentid>15131873</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:47:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131879</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3088" sha1="cmm2yz2rccsqqvf1xdthiz471ehft13" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||WORKS OF GUY DE MAUPASSANT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{larger|''He?*''}}}}

{{sc|My}} dear friend, you cannot understand it by any possible means, you say, and I perfectly believe you. You 
think I am going mad? It may be so, but not for the reasons which you suppose. 

Yes, I am going to get married, and I will tell you what has led me to take that step. 

My ideas and my convictions have not changed at all. I look upon all legalized cohabitation as utterly stupid, 
for I am certain that nine husbands out of ten are cuckolds; and they get no more than their deserts for having been 
idiotic enough to fetter their lives and renounce their freedom in love, the only happy and good thing in the world, and 
for having clipped the wings of fancy which continually drives us on toward all women. You know what I mean. 
More than ever I feel that I am incapable of loving one woman alone, because I shall always adore all the others 
too much. I should like to have a thousand arms, a thousand mouths, and a thousand — ''temperaments'', to be able to 
strain an army of these charming creatures in my embrace at the same moment. 

And yet I am going to get married! 

I may add that I know very little of the girl who is going to become my wife to-morrow; I have only seen her 
four or five times. I know that there is nothing unpleasant about her, and that is enough for my purpose. She is 
small, fair, and stout; so of course the day after to-morrow I shall ardently wish for a tall, dark, thin woman. 

She is not rich, and belongs to the middle classes. She is a girl such as 
you may find by the gross, well adapted for matrimony, without any apparent 
faults, and with no particularly striking qualities. People say of her: &quot;Mlle. 
Lajolle is a very nice girl,&quot; and tomorrow they will say: &quot;What a very 
nice woman Madame Raymon is.&quot; She belongs, in a word, to that immense 
number of girls who make very good wives for us till the moment comes 
when we discover that we happen to prefer all other women to that particular woman we married. 

&quot;Well,&quot; you will say to me, &quot;what on earth do you get married for?&quot; 

I hardly like to tell you the strange and seemingly improbable reason that 
urged me on to this senseless act; the fact, however, is that I am frightened of being alone! 

I don't know how to tell you or to make you understand me, but my state 
of mind is so wretched that you will pity and despise me. 

I do not want to be alone any longer at night; I want to feel that there is 
some one close to me touching me, a being who can speak and say something, no matter what it be. 

I wish to be able to awaken somebody by my side, so that I may be able to ask 
some sudden question even, if I feel inclined, so that I may hear a human 
voice, and feel that there is some waking soul close to me, some one whose 

*It was in this story that the first gleams of De Maupassant's approaching 
madness became apparent. Thenceforward he began to revel in the strange and 
terrible, until his malady had seized him wholly. &quot;The Diary of a Madman,&quot; is in a similar vein.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|816}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cmm2yz2rccsqqvf1xdthiz471ehft13</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu/73</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847430</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131867</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:37:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza|end=stanza|{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Ha! ha! ha! now comes my turn to be ravished. —You see now, Madam, you must use men one way or other; but take this by the way; good Madam, that none but a fool will give you the benefit of his courage, unless you'll take his Love along with it. —How are they armed, Friend?  {{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}With sword and pistol, Sir.  {{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Hush!—I see a dark lantern coming through the gallery—Mad...</comment>
      <origin>15131867</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2319" sha1="3hqx2xu9ja9kmblti2xbhrnunhcqdwk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|61|''The Beaux Stratagem''.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|end=stanza|{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Ha! ha! ha! now comes my turn to be ravished. —You see now, Madam, you must use men one way or other; but take this by the way; good Madam, that none but a fool will give you the benefit of his courage, unless you'll take his Love along with it. —How are they armed, Friend?

{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}With sword and pistol, Sir.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Hush!—I see a dark lantern coming through the gallery—Madam, be assur'd I will protect you, or lose my life.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Your life! no, Sir, they can rob me of nothing that I value half so much; therefore now, Sir, let me entreat you to be gone.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}No, Madam, I'll consult my own safety for the sake of yours; I 'll work by stratagem. Have you courage enough to stand the appearance of 'em?

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Yes, yes, since I have 'scap'd your Hands, I can face anything.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Come hither, Brother Scrub! don't you know me?

{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}Eh, my dear Brother, let me kiss thee.

[Kisses Archer.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}This way—here—

[Archer and Scrub hide behind the bed.

Enter Gibbet, with a dark lantern in one Hand, and a pistol in the other.

{{em}}''Gib''.{{em}}Ay, ay, this is the chamber, and the Lady alone.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Who are you, Sir? what wou'd you have? d' ye come to rob me?

{{em}}''Gib''.{{em}}Rob you! alack a day, Madam, I 'm only a younger Brother, Madam; and so, Madam, if you make a noise, I'll shoot you through the head; but don't be afraid, Madam.—[Laying his lantern and pistol upon the table.] These rings, Madam; don't be concerned, Madam, I have a profound respect for you, Madam; your keys, Madam; don't be frighted, Madam, I'm the most of a Gentleman. —[Searching her pockets.] This necklace, Madam; I never was rude to any Lady;—I have a veneration —for this necklace— [160]

[Here Archer having come round, and seiz'd the pistol takes Gibbet by the collar, trips up his heels, and claps the pistol to his breast.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Hold, profane villain, and take the reward of thy sacrilege!

{{em}}''Gib''.{{em}}Oh! pray, Sir, don't kill me; I an't prepared.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}How many is there of 'em, Scrub?}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|''Scrub''.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu/74</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15131869</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:38:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ppoem|start=stanza|end=same-line|{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}Five-and-forty, Sir.  {{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Then I must kill the villain, to have him out of the way.  {{em}}''Gib''.{{em}}Hold, hold, Sir, we are but three, upon my honour.  {{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Scrub, will you undertake to secure him?  {{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}Not I, Sir; kill him, kill him!  {{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Run to ''Gipsey''{{'}}s chamber, there you'll find the Doctor; bring him hither presentl...</comment>
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{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Then I must kill the villain, to have him out of the way.

{{em}}''Gib''.{{em}}Hold, hold, Sir, we are but three, upon my honour.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Scrub, will you undertake to secure him?

{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}Not I, Sir; kill him, kill him!

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Run to ''Gipsey''{{'}}s chamber, there you'll find the Doctor; bring him hither presently.—[Exit Scrub, running.] Come, rogue, if you have a short prayer, say it.

{{em}}''Gib''.{{em}}Sir, I have no prayer at all; the government has provid'd a chaplain to say prayers for us on these occasions.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Pray, Sir, don't kill him: you fright me as much as him.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}The dog shall die, Madam, for being the occasion of my disappointment.—Sirrah, this moment is your last.

{{em}}''Gib''.{{em}}Sir, I 'll give you two hundr'd Pound to spare my life.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Have you no more, rascal?

{{em}}''Gib''.{{em}}Yes, Sir, I can command four hundred, but I must reserve two of 'em to save my life at the sessions.

Re-enter Scrub and Foigard.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Here, Doctor, I suppose Scrub and you between you may manage him. Lay hold of him, Doctor.

[Foigard lays hold of Gibbet.

{{em}}''Gib''.{{em}}What! turn'd over to the Priest already!— Look 'ee, Doctor, you come before your time; I an't condemn'd yet, I thank ye.

{{em}}''Foig''.{{em}} Come, my dear joy; I vill secure your body and your shoul too; I vill make you a good catholic, and give you an Absolution.

{{em}}''Gib''.{{em}}Absolution! can you procure me a pardon, Doctor?

{{em}}''Foig''.{{em}} No, joy—

{{em}}''Gib''.{{em}}Then you and your Absolution may to the devil!

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Convey him into the cellar, there bind him:— take the pistol, and if he offers to resist, shoot him through the head—and come back to us with all the spe'd you can.

{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}Ay, ay, come, Doctor, do you hold him fast, and I 'll guard him.

[Exit Foigard with Gibbet, Scrub following.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}But how came the Doctor—

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}In short, Madam—[Shrieking without.] 'Sdeath! the rogues are at work with the other ladies—I'm vex'd I part'd with the pistol; but I must fly to their assistance.—}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|Will}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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        <username>Chrisguise</username>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;&lt;section begin=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;{{ppoem|start=same-line|end=close|Will you stay here, Madam, or venture your self with me?  {{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}[Taking him by the arm.] Oh, with you, dear Sir, with you. {{rbstagedir|Exeunt.}}}} {{dhr}} &lt;section end=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt; &lt;section begin=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;{{c|SCENE, ''Changes to another Apartment in the same House''.  Enter Hounslow and Bagshot, with swords drawn, haling in Lady Bountiful and ''Dorinda''.}}  {{ppoem|start=open|end=stan...</comment>
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{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}[Taking him by the arm.] Oh, with you, dear Sir, with you. {{rbstagedir|Exeunt.}}}}
{{dhr}}
&lt;section end=&quot;s1&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;{{c|SCENE, ''Changes to another Apartment in the same House''.

Enter Hounslow and Bagshot, with swords drawn, haling in Lady Bountiful and ''Dorinda''.}}

{{ppoem|start=open|end=stanza|{{em}}''Houns''.{{em}}Come, come, your jewels, Mistriss.

{{em}}''Bag''.{{em}}Your keys, your keys, old gentleWoman!

Enter ''Aimwell'' and Cherry.

{{em}}''Aim''.{{em}}Turn this way, villains! I durst engage an army in such a cause. [He engages them both.

{{em}}''Dor''.{{em}}O Madam, had I but a sword to help the brave Man!

{{em}}L. ''Boun''.{{em}}There's three or four hanging up in the hall; but they won't draw. I'll go fetch one, however. [Exit.

Enter Archer and Mrs. ''Sullen''.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Hold, hold, my Lord! every Man his bird, pray. [They engage Man to Man; Hounslow and Bagshot are thrown and disarmed.

{{em}}''Cher''.{{em}}[Aside.] What! the rogues taken! then they'll impeach my father: I must give him timely notice.
{{rbstagedir|Runs out.}}

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Shall we kill the rogues?

{{em}}''Aim''.{{em}}No, no, we 'll bind them.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Ay, ay.—[To Mrs. ''Sullen'', who stands by him.] Here, Madam, lend me your garter.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}[Aside.] The devil's in this Fellow! he fights, loves, and banters, all in a breath.—[Aloud.] Here's a cord that the rogues brought with 'em, I suppose.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Right, right, the rogue's destiny, a rope to hang himself.—Come, my Lord—this is but a scandalous sort of an office [Binding the Highwaymen together.] if our adventures shou'd end in this sort of hangman-work; but I hope there is something in prospect, that—

Enter Scrub.

{{em}}''Arch''.{{em}}Well, Scrub, have you secur'd your Tartar?

{{em}}''Scrub''.{{em}}Yes, Sir, I left the Priest and him disputing about religion.

{{em}}''Aim''.{{em}}And pray carry these gentlemen to reap the benefit of the controversy.

[Delivers the prisoners to Scrubs who leads them out.

{{em}}Mrs. ''Sull''.{{em}}Pray, Sister, how came my Lord here?}}

&lt;section end=&quot;s2&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|''Dor''.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>The Beaux Stratagem/Act 5 Scene 2</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title      = [[../]]  | author     = George Farquhar  | translator =   | section    = Act V, Scene II.  | previous   = [[../Act 5 Scene 1|Act V, Scene I]]  | next       = [[../Act 5 Scene 3|Act V, Scene III]]  | notes      =  }} &lt;pages index=&quot;The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu&quot; from=70 fromsection=&quot;s2&quot; to=75 tosection=&quot;s1&quot;/&gt;&quot;</comment>
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 | title      = [[../]]
 | author     = George Farquhar
 | translator = 
 | section    = Act V, Scene II.
 | previous   = [[../Act 5 Scene 1|Act V, Scene I]]
 | next       = [[../Act 5 Scene 3|Act V, Scene III]]
 | notes      = 
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Beaux Stratagem - Farquhar (1707).djvu&quot; from=70 fromsection=&quot;s2&quot; to=75 tosection=&quot;s1&quot;/&gt;</text>
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    <title>Author:Thomas Henry Brooke</title>
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 | lastname     = Brooke
 | last-initial = Br
 | birthyear    = &lt;!--data now imported from wikidata, please consider deleting once matched--&gt;
 | deathyear    = &lt;!--data now imported from wikidata, please consider deleting once matched--&gt;
 | description  = 
}}

==Works==
* ''A History of the Island of St. Helena'' (1808) {{mdash}} first edition to 1806 {{ssl|A history of the island of St. Helena, from its discovery by the Portuguese to the year 1806; to which is added an appendix .. (IA historyofsthelen00brooiala).pdf}}
* ''A History of the Island of St. Helena'' (1824) {{mdash}} second edition to 1823 {{ssl|History of the island of St. Helena (IA historyofislando00brooiala).pdf}}

{{PD/US|1849}}
{{authority control}}</text>
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      <id>15131892</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T17:55:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Navigators</username>
        <id>204175</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ Created page and proofread</comment>
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      <text bytes="1767" sha1="gkm01ccwfjrurwg3yrpoxrglpldnj2c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;The Navigators&quot; /&gt;{{left|{{larger|'''99''' &lt;nowiki&gt;|&lt;/nowiki&gt; '''HEATHROW REPORT'''}}}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;mechanical safety issues were identified and recommendations made to eliminate them. Fire safety issues were also flagged up for further consideration.

{{pline|9|l}}Site visits by HSE inspectors, including a civil engineering specialist, were made to the T4 NATM works and the car park 5 TBM site on 18 August 1994. CTA was not visited due to the time spent on the TBM. The CTA NATM was seen on 6 September 1994. Issues identified during these visits included TBM safety, manriding, operation of tally systems, fire safety and evacuation procedures. A proposed emergency evacuation exercise planned for 4 November 1994 was discussed. HSE was not told about the major repairs that had recently been concluded nor of other quality problems. On 6 October 1994, HSE paid further visits to car park 5 and Shepiston Lane, the two sites where TBMs were in use, to consider fire safety.

{{pline|10|l}}BAA had indicated that they proposed to apply the principles of CDM to the project as they envisaged the Regulations would begin to bite before the project was finished. HSE chose to see how this early initiative worked in practice. Meetings were held between March and October 1994 about the development of the health and safety plan, the assessment of competence and aspects of design risk assessment for one small part of the project.

{{pline|11|l}}HSE’s Railway Inspectorate is required by statute to approve new and altered railway works. There were meetings between the Inspectorate, BAA and their consultants on a range of design issues concerning the completed railway works. The adequacy of the temporary NATM lining, either during construction or upon completion, was not an issue.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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        <username>Eievie</username>
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      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ph|DEATH OF MRS. MCWILLIAMS.}}  One day mother was very sick in bed with neu- ralgia. How gloomy and lonely the house seemed to us children, we missed her so. Grandpa was caring for us children and doing the house work as best he could. Then mother was better and able to sit up trying to sew, saying she could not afford to be idle. Not long after this one day, I know it was Sunday, we were dressed in our Sunday suits, father was reading to us, a knock...</comment>
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One day mother was very sick in bed with neu-
ralgia. How gloomy and lonely the house seemed
to us children, we missed her so. Grandpa was
caring for us children and doing the house work
as best he could. Then mother was better and able
to sit up trying to sew, saying she could not afford
to be idle. Not long after this one day, I know it
was Sunday, we were dressed in our Sunday suits,
father was reading to us, a knock came on the door,
the latch was lifted, the door opened and John Mc-
Williams almost fell into the room, saying, &quot;Come
both of you, my mother is dead.&quot; Then he sank
into a chair and cried as if his heart would break.
Mother arose from her easy chair saying &quot;Come
Walter, we must go.&quot; Father tried to have her not
go, telling her she was not able to go, she ought to
be in bed as her face was still badly swoolen. The
snow being deep and it was very cold. Neither
father, grandpa, nor we crying children could stop
her going. She was dressed in a short time and
tried to have poor John eat. He could not eat, say-
ing he must go right back to his dead mother. He
left us and all was now commotion. Father and
mother were now both going away into the cold,
deep snow and leave us children with grandpa.

{{ph|STARTING ON THEIR PERILOUS TRIP.}}

I remember hearing father tell him over and
over again to be careful, which he promised by
crossing himself; being a Catholic he took that way
to express himself and let father know he meant to&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{xx-larger|{{color|#3a638b|'''APPENDIX 6: Previous HSE involvement in the project'''}}}}

{{pline|1|l}}HSE’s Field Operations Division became aware of the project and contacted BAA’s project managers, Taylor Woodrow, in December 1990.

{{pline|2|l}}Broad schematic design drawings, etc, were obtained and reviewed by HSE’s civil engineering specialists. A meeting was subsequently held with BAA, Mott MacDonald and Taylor Woodrow in February 1991. The proposed works and the general approach to managing the project were considered. Detailed issues were also discussed, including the temporary structural integrity of NATM tunnels.

{{pline|3|l}}HSE again met with Taylor Woodrow in May 1991 to discuss their general approach to health and safety through paperwork systems with particular reference to the NATM trial. A letter subsequently sent dealt with health and safety management, the proposed Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations and made reference to risk assessment. It also touched on the proposed EC Directive for Temporary and Mobile Construction Sites.

{{pline|4|l}}Opportunities provided by the trial tunnel in early 1992 led to a number of visits by HSE’s specialist civil engineering, occupational hygiene and noise inspectors. Read-over from the Channel Tunnel project was covered by involving the same specialist inspectors. HSE wrote to the parties about a number of matters including the safety of open faces. The trial tunnel was completed without incident and some considerable time later the temporary NATM lining was incorporated into the permanent works.

{{pline|5|l}}A final review meeting was held with the joint-venture contractor for the trial and Taylor Woodrow at the end of July 1992. HSE subsequently wrote to Taylor Woodrow dealing, among other things, with the forthcoming MHSWR and risk assessment, avoidance and reduction, and also referring to the proposed CDM Regulations.

{{pline|6|l}}Based upon the lessons learned from the Channel Tunnel, and after discussion with those co-ordinating HSE’s inspection of the Jubilee Line Extension Project, it was decided that TBM mechanical safety, vehicle movements (especially underground transport), fire safety, emergency procedures and tally systems would be pursued as priority issues at the Heathrow Project. A major incident when a large dump truck fell down the fuel depot shaft during its construction was investigated.

{{pline|7|l}}Before Balfour Beatty commenced their contract, the project director and safety manager gave a presentation to HSE and a number of issues were raised in discussion. These did not include the safety of NATM.

{{pline|4|l}}In mid-1994, HSE visited the factories where the TBMs were being manufactured. A number of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;be faithful. Bob was also told to watch over us children, which he understood. At last they were ready to start, all bundled up in heavy, warm cloth- ing. We two smaller children were crying and hanging on to them when mother said, &quot;Now lis- ten children, be good and mind all that grandpa tells you. Don't you know poor John has no one with him, his mother is dead?&quot; We were quiet, but sorrow- ful. Oh, how little we children could realize or understand the...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1565" sha1="9b376gtgaeoaotfyr6o27vytolmcu77" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|30|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;be faithful. Bob was also told to watch over us
children, which he understood. At last they were
ready to start, all bundled up in heavy, warm cloth-
ing. We two smaller children were crying and
hanging on to them when mother said, &quot;Now lis-
ten children, be good and mind all that grandpa tells
you. Don't you know poor John has no one with him,
his mother is dead?&quot; We were quiet, but sorrow-
ful. Oh, how little we children could realize or
understand the awful, dangerous trip our father and
mother were about to undertake! Grandpa realized
it and tried so hard to keep them from going. The
snow was very deep, weather extremely cold, with
bears and wolves to be encountered at every step as
soon as darkness came on.

{{ph|THEIR STORY OF THEIR JOURNEY AS THEY TOLD IT TO ME IN AFTER YEARS.}}

&quot;We traveled along the beach inside the ice
banks, as snow was not quite so deep there and we
felt safer from wolves. It was noon when we left
home. We had about fifteen miles to go, I think, to
reach Birch Point. The wind was keen and cut like
a knife in our faces. I made your mother walk
right behind me, knowing she could never stand
the sharp wind. About two o'clock it began to snow
so hard it was blinding in our faces. We kept on,
and after awhile I saw your mother began to lag
and could not keep up even when I walked slowly.
It was already getting dark, as the days were so
short. At last she said, {{'}}Walter, I am afraid I can't
keep up any longer.{{'}} I said to her, {{'}}Yes, you must&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;keep up, we will sit and rest a little while, then you can walk better.{{'}} While we sat there we heard the bark of a wolf not far off, and well we knew what that sound meant. I knew then that our only hope. was to reach a small shanty about a mile and a half further on. I said, {{'}}Come mother, we must get to the little shanty, there we'll stay till morning.{{'}} This gave her new courage, and we pressed on through the blinding storm, snow being deepe...</comment>
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can walk better.{{'}} While we sat there we heard the
bark of a wolf not far off, and well we knew what
that sound meant. I knew then that our only hope.
was to reach a small shanty about a mile and a half
further on. I said, {{'}}Come mother, we must get to
the little shanty, there we'll stay till morning.{{'}} This
gave her new courage, and we pressed on through
the blinding storm, snow being deeper at every step.
I took her arm and we got on quite fast for a time.
We still had over a half mile to go before we reached
the shanty and I saw it was now a great effort for
her to walk. She now began to worry about the
children. I told her grandpa would be faithful and
take good care of them and that we must hurry and
try to reach the little shanty. I did not tell her of
my fears, there being a possibility that it might be
gone, taken away for its lumber by some fishermen
along the shore in the fall. The snow became so
deep it was hard to travel, and I could see she was
getting weaker all the time. All at once the bark-
ing of wolves began first here then there, in every
direction except on the lake side. We kept very
close to the ice banks. I saw your mother could
keep up no longer. The wolves were gathering from
all sides and I realized our only hope was the little
shanty, which I prayed might be left standing and
that we might reach it in time. I threw down my
little bag of tools, hammer, saw and gun. I took
you mother on my back and staggered along
through the storm. It was almost dark and I feared
we might miss the shanty even if it was still there.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>orjkyi642kgbeyxzdiar3urhda8wc16</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/36</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847449</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131904</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:02:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;The howls and barks of the wolves were very near us now and it was terrible. I knew my own. strength could not hold much longer. I said, {{'}}now keep a sharp lookout for the shanty.{{'}} I heard the growls and snarls of the wolves and could almost feel their hot breath upon us. I thought of you, my children, and that thought kept me up. At last your mother said, {{'}}Oh, thank God, here is the shan- ty!{{'}} I felt her grow heavier and limp and knew tha...</comment>
      <origin>15131904</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1691" sha1="odd6gpxo5hrctk0nn3yvg6o03a8r4d5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|32|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;The howls and barks of the wolves were very near
us now and it was terrible. I knew my own.
strength could not hold much longer. I said, {{'}}now
keep a sharp lookout for the shanty.{{'}} I heard the
growls and snarls of the wolves and could almost
feel their hot breath upon us. I thought of you,
my children, and that thought kept me up. At last
your mother said, {{'}}Oh, thank God, here is the shan-
ty!{{'}} I felt her grow heavier and limp and knew that
she had fainted. I made one last effort and reached
the door none too soon, the wolves were right at
our heels. I pushed the door open and closed it as
soon as possible, letting your mother drop down.
upon the floor until I could get the door safely bar-
red. The snow had drifted in some beside the door.
I took some snow in my hand and rubbed her face
with it. After awhile she said, {{'}}Walter, are we
safe?{{'}} I said, {{'}}yes, mother, thank God we are safe
for awhile.{{'}} I left her and began to look for a
place to make a fire. I found a pretty good cook
stove with a good pile of wood near which the fish-
ermen had left for anyone who might be in need.
and we were the first that had need of it. I used my
flint and soon had a warm fire. I also found a
small tin lamp full of fish oil. I said, {{'}}now mother
we are all right. With the provisions I have we
will soon have some supper and warm tea.{{'}} I took
up some of the clean snow in a basin and put it to
heat on the stove, where it was soon boiling. I
found a bench for your mother to sit on. I took
off most of her wraps and soon we were warm
and comfortable eating our lunch with hot tea. Oh,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>odd6gpxo5hrctk0nn3yvg6o03a8r4d5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/39</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847450</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131907</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:03:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;the howling and tearing of the wolves was terrible to hear. They would scratch on the door and try to climb upon the roof. There was one small window near the door. I was afraid the wolves would break it in their jumping about, and how I did wish for my gun that I had to throw down with the tools as we came. There were two large bunks filled with balsam boughs, and I took some of our wraps and made a bed for your mother. She was soon fast asleep. I kept...</comment>
      <origin>15131907</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1559" sha1="ky6l1nia3oi6od6l45dpu838balrqhb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|33|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the howling and tearing of the wolves was terrible
to hear. They would scratch on the door and
try to climb upon the roof. There was one small
window near the door. I was afraid the wolves
would break it in their jumping about, and how I
did wish for my gun that I had to throw down
with the tools as we came. There were two large
bunks filled with balsam boughs, and I took some
of our wraps and made a bed for your mother. She
was soon fast asleep. I kept a good fire, and about
midnight laid down beside her, and in spite of the
howling and barking of the wolves I was soon.
fast asleep. At break of day all was quiet, the
wolves had gone to the woods. We had some break-
fast and mother felt better. I left her and went to
find my gun and other things I had left in the snow.
The wolves had trampled the snow all down about
the door and we could see the marks of their claws.
on the door. We were soon started on our way
and reached the little deserted settlement, where I
took two boards to carry, as John had also done, as
we needed the lumber to make a coffin. From here.
we found better walking, a straighter beach. We
reached John's about II o'clock. We found him
sitting beside his dead mother.&quot;

{{ph|BROTHER ANTHONY LOST IN THE WOODS.}}

With us children at home we too had our
troubles. I cried all night with earache and poor old
grandpa had his hands full to take care of us all.
He was up all night, and he worried about father
and mother. He was sure they were frozen to death&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ky6l1nia3oi6od6l45dpu838balrqhb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/40</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847451</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131908</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:03:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;or eaten up by the wolves. And to make it still harder for him brother Toney went out alone up the river to find the rabbit traps he had set and lost his way home. When he did not come back at dinner time grandpa was almost crazy, but would not let brother Lewis go to look for him, fearing he too would be lost. He left us two little ones with Lewis. while he ran down to the river and called to the men at work in the mill. At first he could not make them...</comment>
      <origin>15131908</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1645" sha1="2d65xau9sdrz8hdzjlc905ej3wbh749" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|34|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;or eaten up by the wolves. And to make it still
harder for him brother Toney went out alone up the
river to find the rabbit traps he had set and lost his
way home. When he did not come back at dinner
time grandpa was almost crazy, but would not let
brother Lewis go to look for him, fearing he too
would be lost. He left us two little ones with Lewis.
while he ran down to the river and called to the
men at work in the mill. At first he could not make
them hear him. He swung his arms and ran up and
down, and at last they saw him and two men came
over on a raft, our boat, the only one there, being
on our side of the river. They thought something
terrible must have happened grandpa. In his im-
perfect English he could not make them understand.
They came to the house and Lewis made them un-
derstand Toney was lost in the woods and told
them where father and mother had gone. We were
all crying, as we two younger ones only wanted papa
and mamma. I remember seeing the men run to the
boat, cross the river, and soon come back with all
the men, Mr. Frankle, with the rest, all starting to
the woods. Lewis was gathering up limbs of trees.
and brush wood to make a big fire at night to guide
the men home. Grandpa cried and wrung his hands,
praying and crossing himself continually. We two
little ones were frightened, not knowing just what
had happened. We had our playthings and sat in
our corner behind the stove crying to ourselves.
The men had taken the two young dogs with them.
After awhile Mr. Frankle came back and talked
with grandpa, then he took Bob away with him.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2d65xau9sdrz8hdzjlc905ej3wbh749</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/41</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847452</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131909</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:04:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;Then we began to cry so hard, seeing Bob going off. He heard us and ran back to us children, licking our faces and hands. They put a rope on Bob's neck and led him away. Grandpa did all he could to comfort us, made the tops spin and rocked my dolly to sleep in her cradle, and ever so many things. to please us, but we would not be comforted. Our Bob was gone, and we wanted him to come back. At last Lewis came in telling us Bob was coming soon with brother...</comment>
      <origin>15131909</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1530" sha1="r00h6l7ogfvnj71vftieyqt073dtfxq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|35|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Then we began to cry so hard, seeing Bob going off.
He heard us and ran back to us children, licking
our faces and hands. They put a rope on Bob's
neck and led him away. Grandpa did all he could
to comfort us, made the tops spin and rocked my
dolly to sleep in her cradle, and ever so many things.
to please us, but we would not be comforted. Our
Bob was gone, and we wanted him to come back.
At last Lewis came in telling us Bob was coming
soon with brother Toney. Charley understood and
was quiet. I was put into my cradle, where grandpa.
rocked me to sleep, singing to me one of his French
songs I loved so well to hear.

I have a confused memory of hearing dogs
barking and of being carried to the window and
seeing a big fire shining far out over the snow and
river and the men coming in all covered with snow,
and dear old Bob bounding to greet me and kissing
my face; then I remembered no more. But when I
was older mother told me all about the hunting and
finding of brother Anthony.

{{ph|MOTHER'S STORY.}}

&quot;The men hunted and found the tracks, but he
had turned and circled so often in all directions they
became confused. The young dogs were more in-
tent on chasing rabbits and other small game, so
nothing could be done with the young dogs. The
men knew that if the child was not found that night
he would be eaten by wolves. At last one of the
men said to Mr. Frankle, {{'}}I wonder if Bob could
find him,{{'}} Mr. Frankle came at once and took Bob.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>r00h6l7ogfvnj71vftieyqt073dtfxq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons on Beaver Island/Part 1</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847453</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131911</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:04:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title      = A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons on Beaver Island  | author     = Elizabeth Whitney Williams   | year       = 1905  | previous   = [[../|front matter]]  | next       = [[../Part 2/]] }}  &lt;pages index=&quot;A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu&quot; from=15 to=65 /&gt;&quot;</comment>
      <origin>15131911</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="307" sha1="i5j7ekyb9zu17k2x26df6oomte0mq2w" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title      = A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons on Beaver Island
 | author     = Elizabeth Whitney Williams 
 | year       = 1905
 | previous   = [[../|front matter]]
 | next       = [[../Part 2/]]
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu&quot; from=15 to=65 /&gt;</text>
      <sha1>i5j7ekyb9zu17k2x26df6oomte0mq2w</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/42</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847454</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131913</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:05:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;As soon as they could make the dog understand what they wanted him to do he started on the hunt. They let him smell of brother's clothes and shoes. At first Bob began to whine and tremble and lay down at their feet in the snow. They could not speak to him in French, which was the language Bob knew best, his master always speaking to him in French. At last he looked up in their faces after smelling of the shoes and began to bark. He started with his nose...</comment>
      <origin>15131913</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1550" sha1="4zz8p68ss14vmj7hcg2ac9ke7z6fsnb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|36|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;As soon as they could make the dog understand
what they wanted him to do he started on the hunt.
They let him smell of brother's clothes and shoes.
At first Bob began to whine and tremble and lay
down at their feet in the snow. They could not
speak to him in French, which was the language
Bob knew best, his master always speaking to him
in French. At last he looked up in their faces after
smelling of the shoes and began to bark. He started
with his nose to the ground. At first the young
dogs worried him by bounding and jumping over
him. They wanted him to play with them. But
Bob had something more important for him to do—a human life to save. He circled and seemed con-
fused, then threw his head up in the air, gave sev-
eral loud, sharp barks and looked at the men as
much as to say follow me. He left them far be-
hind, though they went as fast as they could go.
It was growing dark, they were uneasy. Soon
Bob's deep voice was heard barking furiously. He
never stopped till the men reached him. He was
standing directly over brother, who was lying in
the snow. Bob had scratched the snow away and
partly dragged him out. At first the men thought
Toney was dead. He was just exhausted from
walking so far and so afraid of the dark and the
wolves. The men carried him home, reaching there
at ten o'clock that night amid the howling of the
wolves that followed them at a distance.&quot; Brother
was sick in bed when father and mother came home.
They were gone four days.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4zz8p68ss14vmj7hcg2ac9ke7z6fsnb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/43</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847455</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131914</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:06:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ph|FATHER AND MOTHER COMING HOME.}}  Father had made the casket and mother made the shroud. They buried the dear old lady beside the husband she loved so well. Two Indian hunters came that way on their return from hunting. They helped to dig the grave and stayed to bring mother home on their sleds. Mother baked and cooked for John, as they could not persuade him to come home with them to remain until spring. Mr. Frankle sent two men to see if father an...</comment>
      <origin>15131914</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1507" sha1="7wavhcyt1z1v5on9a6tukm64vguakda" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|37|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|FATHER AND MOTHER COMING HOME.}}

Father had made the casket and mother made
the shroud. They buried the dear old lady beside
the husband she loved so well. Two Indian hunters
came that way on their return from hunting. They
helped to dig the grave and stayed to bring mother
home on their sleds. Mother baked and cooked
for John, as they could not persuade him to come
home with them to remain until spring. Mr.
Frankle sent two men to see if father and mother
were safe and they met them coming with the In-
dians. What happy children we all were to see
them again. Bob was wild with delight to see father
and mother, and when they learned how Bob had
saved brother's life there was nothing too good for
him. Old grandpa was so glad when they came
home, for his trials were great with us four child-
ren. He said to father one day in broken English,
&quot;Oh, Mr. Whitney, I so scare. I fraid you keel me
when boy lost in wood. Bob one good dog, he fine
heme quick. Bob worth ten thousand dollar. Me
most crazy all time you gone. Baby she cry all
night. Earache. Charley she cut he finger. Lewis
he burn she's hand. Oh, I fraid we all go die
sure!&quot;

My mother was worried about John McWilliams.
being left alone so far from any neighbors. The
Indian Chief Ossawinamakee sent two of his In-
dians with their wives and papooses to live near
John until spring came. They built warm wigwams.
covered with fur pelts of bear skins. John was very&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7wavhcyt1z1v5on9a6tukm64vguakda</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/44</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847456</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131915</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:07:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;sick and they took care of him. When John came to see us in the spring he told us his story how it came they were here so far from their old home. In after years mother told it to me, and I tell it now, as near as possible, as John told it to her.  {{ph|JOHN'S STORY.}}  &quot;My people were well-to-do people with a com- fortable home in Canada near the City of Toronto. My brother, being seven years older than I, had a good education, went to the city, became...</comment>
      <origin>15131915</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1501" sha1="59dmi6y7hg4cr7ag0dit591xhiwmcvh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|38|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;sick and they took care of him. When John came
to see us in the spring he told us his story how it
came they were here so far from their old home.
In after years mother told it to me, and I tell it
now, as near as possible, as John told it to her.

{{ph|JOHN'S STORY.}}

&quot;My people were well-to-do people with a com-
fortable home in Canada near the City of Toronto.
My brother, being seven years older than I, had a
good education, went to the city, became a clerk in
a bank, got into bad company, forged a check on the
bank and was arrested for forgery. Our farm and
the old home went to clear him. He promised father
to do better. We heard about these western islands.
and shores, and thinking this a good place to come.
with my brother where no one knew of our disgrace,
we came, bringing fish nets and a boat. We fished
all summer, doing well, but as fall came my brother
became restless and discontented. He took the fish
nets and boat and sold them all, leaving us nothing,
then went we knew not where. This broke my old
father's heart and mother soon followed him to the
grave. Now I am left alone to battle with the
world, but I shall never forget your kindness to me
and mine.&quot;

After working all summer for some fishermen
John went home to Toronto to live with an uncle
who offered him a home, and John accepted with
a grateful heart.

{{ph|FIRST VISIT TO THE BIG WHITE HOUSE.}}

Since coming to Manistique mother and we two&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>59dmi6y7hg4cr7ag0dit591xhiwmcvh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/45</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847457</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131916</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:07:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;small children had never crossed over the river nor been inside the big white house, as we called Mr. Frankle's home. One morning I woke and found myself in a strange bed and a strange room. I called and mother came to me, telling me we were in the big white house where I had watched the lights so many times in the windows. She took me into another room. A lady was sitting in a low chair with a little wee baby rolled up in white flannel in her lap. A lit...</comment>
      <origin>15131916</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1622" sha1="bohzfljlvera1wkt24m51oiolpyx417" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|39|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;small children had never crossed over the river nor
been inside the big white house, as we called Mr.
Frankle's home. One morning I woke and found
myself in a strange bed and a strange room. I called
and mother came to me, telling me we were in the
big white house where I had watched the lights
so many times in the windows. She took me into
another room. A lady was sitting in a low chair
with a little wee baby rolled up in white flannel in
her lap. A little baby had been born that night in
the rich man's home. I went up to the lady asking
to see the dolly baby. She said, &quot;Oh, no, it is not a
dolly, it's a baby,&quot; but to me it was a dolly. I had.
my own rag doll in my arms hugged tight, and
every little while I would toss and sing to her in
French. The beauty of the room was something
new to me; soft carpets and rugs on the floor that
gave no sound of the patter of my feet as I walked.
about. The walls were covered with soft tinted
paper and beautiful pictures hanging everywhere,
curtains of finest lace and silk at the windows. I
gazed about almost holding my breath. Everything
seemed so still.

Soon a door opened without noise and a little.
child came into the room. She looked to me like a
little angel I had seen the picture of, blue eyes
and golden hair. She seemed such a sweet little
flower almost too frail to be alive. When she saw
me she came to me, holding out her doll for me to
take. I drew back, as her doll was wax and opened
and shut its eyes. It was almost like the one I had
at home put away in its box which had been given&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bohzfljlvera1wkt24m51oiolpyx417</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/104</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847458</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131917</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:07:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Navigators</username>
        <id>204175</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ Created page and proofread</comment>
      <origin>15131917</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2624" sha1="9n23j3ju96v8galuckj6g6mmv1g8j75" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;The Navigators&quot; /&gt;{{right|{{larger|'''HEATHROW REPORT''' &lt;nowiki&gt;|&lt;/nowiki&gt; '''96'''}}}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{xx-larger|{{color|#3a638b|'''APPENDIX 5: HSE’s NATM Report - principal conclusions'''}}}}

{{pline|1|l}}Major NATM collapses have occurred worldwide. This finding and recent scrutiny of proposals for NATM in the UK lead HSE to conclude that some safety-critical aspects of NATM design and construction have been poorly understood, and past experience has not been adequately taken into account.

{{pline|2|l}}NATM tunnel collapses in urban areas can result in major consequences, not just to those working in the tunnel but to members of the public, the infrastructure and the built environment.

{{pline|3|l}}There will be locations where the consequences of collapse are unacceptable. In such cases alternative solutions should be adopted.

{{pline|4|l}}There is always some degree of uncertainty in tunnelling design and construction. This can be significant with NATM. A risk-based approach to design and management is required.

{{pline|5|l}}Safety risks are greatest in tunnel headings. Open faces, a feature of NATM, are hazardous. Linings are more vulnerable to collapse before the ring is closed.

{{pline|6|l}}Ground investigations throughout must ensure that there is no likelihood of meeting unexpected conditions of a critical nature.

{{pline|7|l}}A robust design is essential. Design for each element should be fully developed before construction of that element commences. Design modifications should only be used to enhance a robust design.

{{pline|8|l}}The ‘observational method’ is a process in which a predetermined design is reviewed during construction. It is not a method of design or design modification. (By way of further explanation, the observations may confirm the adequacy of a design or indicate the need for modification.)

{{pline|9|l}}An integrated approach should be taken to the design of permanent and temporary works. Design should consider the whole process of NATM tunnel construction.

{{pline|10|l}}Monitoring is of limited value in the heading and does not ensure face stability. Therefore, every stage in the excavation of the heading and construction of the lining should be designed.

{{pline|11|l}}The safety of completed sprayed concrete linings depends on monitoring and data interpretation. The design should determine the monitoring regime and contingency actions.

{{pline|12|l}}The achievement of quality is essential if a NATM project is to be completed successfully.

{{pline|13|l}}‘Buildability’ (ease of construction) should be considered in design and construction planning.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9n23j3ju96v8galuckj6g6mmv1g8j75</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/46</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847459</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131918</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:08:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;me at St. Helena by Cousin Mitchell. I had not got over being afraid of it yet because it moved its eyes. Mother had to come and explain to them about it. The little girl took me by the hand and led me into a large bedroom where her mamma lay among white pillows. The lady reached out her hand to me, smiling, and drew me up to her. At first I could say nothing. Then as her sister came in with the baby in her arms I said, &quot;Me want to go home and see Charle...</comment>
      <origin>15131918</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1580" sha1="fvbwtw9nrf996ifyf3xw6ur9jl8v4k5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|40|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;me at St. Helena by Cousin Mitchell. I had not
got over being afraid of it yet because it moved its
eyes. Mother had to come and explain to them
about it. The little girl took me by the hand and
led me into a large bedroom where her mamma lay
among white pillows. The lady reached out her
hand to me, smiling, and drew me up to her. At
first I could say nothing. Then as her sister came in
with the baby in her arms I said, &quot;Me want to go
home and see Charley.&quot; Mother came to explain
I wanted to go home to see my little brother. The
lady said, &quot;you shall see them this evening, I shall
send and have them come.&quot; Then I told her I
wanted to see Bob too. She said, &quot;Yes, Bob shall
come.&quot; I was more content, and while mother held
the wee baby in her arms I sat in a little chair and
rocked my doll, singing to it, and when I was given
my bread and milk for supper I fed my doll some,
and when she choked I patted her on the back just
like Aunt Abby did to Baby Margarette.

{{ph|REMINDERS OF HOME FAR AWAY.}}

Soon the lamps were lighted and the men came
in to supper. The young lady, Mr. Frankle's sister,
had gotten the supper with mother's help. I remem-
ber the long table and white table cloth. The men
were all seated at the table when Mr. Frankle came
in the room with the little wee baby in his arms. He
took the baby to the men and some of them took it
in their arms and kissed it, tears rolling down their
faces. Father told me later it made them think of
home and their own little ones, for most of them&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fvbwtw9nrf996ifyf3xw6ur9jl8v4k5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/47</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847460</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131919</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:09:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;had families in their far away homes. Mother took the baby to its mother. I was put into a high chair and sat near the head of the table, heads were bowed and Mr. Frankle asked a blessing. As soon as it was ended I said &quot;Amen&quot; and made the sign of the cross, just as grandpa always did. When I saw them smile I looked serious and got down, tell- ing mother I wanted to go home. I could not eat, but fed my doll, after which mother took me in her arms and roc...</comment>
      <origin>15131919</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1558" sha1="l8v3xuhqbyq7tw24a1jbw1y1ugszq7l" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|41|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;had families in their far away homes. Mother took
the baby to its mother. I was put into a high chair
and sat near the head of the table, heads were
bowed and Mr. Frankle asked a blessing. As soon
as it was ended I said &quot;Amen&quot; and made the sign
of the cross, just as grandpa always did. When I
saw them smile I looked serious and got down, tell-
ing mother I wanted to go home. I could not eat,
but fed my doll, after which mother took me in her
arms and rocked me to sleep, singing one of her
sweet old songs.

{{ph|A LONGING FOR HOME.}}

Next morning I could not eat any breakfast,
but kept calling for brother Charley, Bob and
grandpa. Everything was so still and silent here in
the big house. Oh the longing in a child's heart for
the old familiar faces and home! Child that I was
it seemed to me all that made life sweet had gone
out of my life. I grew sick, I could not eat, and for
several days lay on my little bed. Little Lilly tried to
amuse me with her dolls and music box, but my
heart was longing for grandpa, Charley and Bob.
One morning father came and took me up and car-
ried me into another room. There was Charley and
Bob. It was a happy meeting with us all, but I felt
too weak to play. At night father took Bob home
and left Charley with us, but Charley, too, was not
happy, he could not whittle his sticks or spin his
top like he could at home. Mother, too, missed her
home. Here everything was silent, and still all were
very kind to us. But mother missed our noise and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>l8v3xuhqbyq7tw24a1jbw1y1ugszq7l</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/48</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847461</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131920</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:09:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;singing. Little Charley, too, began to droop. At night he went to look out of the window, and when he saw the lights in our windows at home across the river he began to cry, saying to mother, &quot;I want to go home to grandpa.&quot; Next day we were both sent home, and grandpa and Bob were so happy. Lewis and Toney, too, were anxious for us all to be home again. At night we were taken again to the big house, as mother wanted us with her. We three children played...</comment>
      <origin>15131920</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1510" sha1="gk74lyrce3kmr996qa404c9b1b7dk87" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|42|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;singing. Little Charley, too, began to droop. At
night he went to look out of the window, and when
he saw the lights in our windows at home across
the river he began to cry, saying to mother, &quot;I want
to go home to grandpa.&quot; Next day we were both
sent home, and grandpa and Bob were so happy.
Lewis and Toney, too, were anxious for us all to be
home again. At night we were taken again to the
big house, as mother wanted us with her. We three
children played to amuse ourselves, but all seemed
so quiet to Charley and me. Charley was more at
home now. Miss Harriet let him spin his top and
whittle in the kitchen. After about two weeks mo-
ther was ready to go home and we were a happy
family.

{{ph|HAPPY HOME LIFE.}}

Life went on very happy with us children, our
home was comfortable. After all the years that
have passed so rapidly, methinks I can see us all
as we were then around our pleasant fireside on
many of those winter evenings. Little mittens had
to be made for our hands. Little jackets and caps.
for the boys, in which all took an interest, and
grandpa, too, did his share. He made little fur
suits for the boys, caps and all. Father would read
to us from the big family Bible and explain to us
as he read. Then he would sing the hymns he
loved so well, mother joining in. Then grandpa
would sing with mother their French glee songs,
while us children would join in. Then grandpa
would rock me in the low cradle and the boys grew&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gk74lyrce3kmr996qa404c9b1b7dk87</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/49</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847462</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131921</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:10:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;inpatient because it kept the fur suits from being made so fast. Then old grandpa would tell us stories of his travels, and when he told us about them we forgot all about fur suits, for we loved to listen to his old French and Spanish songs and stories. He would tell us of his travels and hardships.  {{ph|BOB'S SYMPATHY.}}  Bob seemed almost to understand, as he would always come close to us and listen, looking at us with his great, kind eyes. Many times...</comment>
      <origin>15131921</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1561" sha1="fu8pt4udbqrw011w890ny805w8mcw4a" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|43|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;inpatient because it kept the fur suits from being
made so fast. Then old grandpa would tell us stories
of his travels, and when he told us about them we
forgot all about fur suits, for we loved to listen
to his old French and Spanish songs and stories.
He would tell us of his travels and hardships.

{{ph|BOB'S SYMPATHY.}}

Bob seemed almost to understand, as he would
always come close to us and listen, looking at us
with his great, kind eyes. Many times grandpa.
would cry as he related some of his most sorrowful
experiences, of how some of his comrades had per-
ished from cold and hunger, or of being drowned in
crossing the great rivers. Then he would cover
his face with his hands as if to shut out the sight
of some loved one's suffering. Old Bob would
whine and lick his old master's face and hands
as if trying to comfort him, then run to father and
whine. Father would go over to grandpa and say,
&quot;Now don't cry any more, all that is past. You
have not any more such trials to pass through.
Now be happy with us.&quot; It always cheered him and
soon he would be at work again. We children al-
ways sympathized with him, often shedding tears
when he told his sorrowful tales and laughing with
glee at some of his jolly ones. Sometimes mother
would say, &quot;I do wish you would not tell the child-
ren so many sorrowful stories. It makes them sad
to hear them.&quot; Then he would say, &quot;Me can't help
it. Me sad too sometimes.&quot; The fur suits were
finished and taken over to the big house for Mrs.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fu8pt4udbqrw011w890ny805w8mcw4a</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The collapse of NATM tunnels at Heathrow Airport.pdf/105</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847463</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131922</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:11:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Navigators</username>
        <id>204175</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ Created page and proofread</comment>
      <origin>15131922</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1299" sha1="t5zb0zg10mo8ivd98ry6e8pwzv0447f" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;The Navigators&quot; /&gt;{{right|{{larger|'''HEATHROW REPORT''' &lt;nowiki&gt;|&lt;/nowiki&gt; '''97'''}}}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{pline|14|l}}Contingency plans and emergency procedures are required to deal with adverse events.

{{pline|15|l}}NATM is heavily dependent on avoiding human failure.

{{pline|16|l}}NATM tunnels require the deployment of considerable skill and care in investigation, planning, design, construction and monitoring. Clients, designers and constructors should not underestimate the complexity of the task they will face before and during construction.

{{pline|17|l}}Competency of the NATM team is crucial, and should be assessed.

{{pline|18|l}}NATM projects do not require skills not already available to the UK construction industry.

{{pline|19|l}}Provided careful account is taken of all the issues in this review, it has proved possible for NATM work to proceed in safety.

{{pline|20|l}}The existing statutory provisions, and in particular CDM,&lt;sup&gt;8&lt;/sup&gt; provide a comprehensive system for the regulatory control of risk including the assessment of competencies. HSE concludes there is no need for further legislation specifically to address the risks arising from NATM.

{{pline|21|l}}Tunnels built with NATM linings, when finally completed and fully commissioned, are as safe as those constructed by other means.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t5zb0zg10mo8ivd98ry6e8pwzv0447f</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/50</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847464</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131924</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:11:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;Frankle to see them, grandpa being a great fav- orite with her.  {{ph|INDIAN VILLAGE AND CHIEF OSSAWINAMAKEE.}}  The Indian village was about three miles distant back from the shore or river's mouth. There the In- dians had a large settlement of about seven hundred people in all at that time. At one time their village had contained nearly three thousand. Since all tribes had been at peace many of their Braves had gone among other tribes to visit and hunt...</comment>
      <origin>15131924</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1520" sha1="76efg2jvqwh7pyi18dyoabjb8zlrzgp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|44|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Frankle to see them, grandpa being a great fav-
orite with her.

{{ph|INDIAN VILLAGE AND CHIEF OSSAWINAMAKEE.}}

The Indian village was about three miles distant
back from the shore or river's mouth. There the In-
dians had a large settlement of about seven hundred
people in all at that time. At one time their village
had contained nearly three thousand. Since all
tribes had been at peace many of their Braves had
gone among other tribes to visit and hunt. This
tribe was of the Ottawas, mixed with the Ojibewas
or Chippewas. In times of war each had been a
powerful nation. Most of these had lived in the
Lake Superior region. After peace was declared
part of the tribe wandered away to the southward
seeking new hunting grounds. The present Chief's
father had been a great warrior as well as his father
before him. Chief Ossawinamakee (Big Thunder),
was a peaceful man, ruling his people with great
kindness. He was a noble looking man of fine per-
sonal appearance.

{{ph|THE LAKE OF ENCHANTMENT.}}

The beautiful lake where the village was situ-
ated the chief's father had claimed to have found in
his younger days when out on a hunting tour. The
tribe claimed the lake was enchanted. Its fish and
wild fowl, ducks and geese and other game were
not to be disturbed by the hunters, but left for &quot;the
Indian Maiden&quot; who strolled by its shores, and for
her lover that was to come back and take her to
the happy hunting grounds. The village was situ-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>76efg2jvqwh7pyi18dyoabjb8zlrzgp</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/51</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847465</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131925</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:11:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;ated beside this beautiful lake, called by the tribe &quot;The Lake of Enchantment,&quot; or where &quot;The Spirit of Peace Always Lived.&quot; And, truly, when seen. in its quiet and wild beauty it was not hard to be- lieve. The legend runs that on moonlight nights the form of an Indian maiden could be seen wan- dering along its quiet shores waiting for her lover to come from the happy hunting grounds to meet her. In times of war among the different tribes, it was told, a...</comment>
      <origin>15131925</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1572" sha1="44dydcsefwxwmzsth61mhv9qr0ezf49" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|45|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ated beside this beautiful lake, called by the tribe
&quot;The Lake of Enchantment,&quot; or where &quot;The Spirit
of Peace Always Lived.&quot; And, truly, when seen.
in its quiet and wild beauty it was not hard to be-
lieve. The legend runs that on moonlight nights
the form of an Indian maiden could be seen wan-
dering along its quiet shores waiting for her lover
to come from the happy hunting grounds to meet
her. In times of war among the different tribes, it
was told, a beautiful Indian maiden of the Ottawas
had a lover of the Huron tribe. The tribes were at
war. The lover was taken prisoner and condemned
to die, to burn at the stake. When the awful deed.
was taking place the Indian maiden was seen to
take her flight southward. Braves were sent to
bring her back. She forever eluded them and at
last disappeared from their sight. When this lake
was discovered many years afterwards it was be-
lieved the shadowy maiden seen was the same that
had disappeared so long ago, and wandered beside
this beautiful water waiting for her lover to join her.
Wild deer came to drink of its waters, animals and
fowls had no fear of the red man. It was indeed
an enchanted place.

{{ph|THE CHIEF'S DAUGHTER, &quot;STAR OF THE MORNING.&quot;}}

The Chief's daughter was a beautiful Indian
maiden. She was an only child. Her mother died
when she was quite young. Her aunt, her mother's
sister, had taken the place of a mother to her. The
Chief, her father, was very proud of her and greatly
attached to her. She was of medium height, oval&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>44dydcsefwxwmzsth61mhv9qr0ezf49</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/52</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847466</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131926</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:12:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;face and clear olive skin with red cheeks and lips, her eyes were large and dark with nearly always a sad look in them. Her teeth were like two rows of small white pearls, small hands and feet, she was a royal princess dearly loved by the whole tribe. Her Indian name was Wa-bun-an-nung (the Morning Star.) We always called her Mary. She was gentle in her manner and could sew very nicely, being al- ways busy with her bead work and quills, making many prett...</comment>
      <origin>15131926</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1560" sha1="sqsu6l91ypzuxam3s4zncy8gigrvpm6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|46|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;face and clear olive skin with red cheeks and lips,
her eyes were large and dark with nearly always a
sad look in them. Her teeth were like two rows of
small white pearls, small hands and feet, she was a
royal princess dearly loved by the whole tribe. Her
Indian name was Wa-bun-an-nung (the Morning
Star.) We always called her Mary. She was gentle
in her manner and could sew very nicely, being al-
ways busy with her bead work and quills, making
many pretty little boxes from the birch bark and or-
namenting them with bright colored porcupine
quills which the Indian women colored in bright,
gay colors. Her father had always taken her with
him on his long trips to Canada and the Sault, also
to Green Bay on many of his hunting expeditions.
She could paddle her canoe as swift as any of the
braves in her tribe.

{{ph|THE CHIEF AND HIS DAUGHTER VISITING US.}}

To me Mary seemed like some bright being
from another world. Her voice was soft and sweet.
She always came to our home with her father, the
chief. Then she would take me in her arms, calling
me her little white &quot;papoose.&quot; She would put me
in my cradle, rocking and singing me to sleep with
her quiet, soft voice. Many were the strings of
beads and deer skin moccasins she gave me. She
made me some dolls and put pretty dresses on them.
She was always doing something nice for us
children and was very fond of us. One day she
asked little brother if he would give her little sister,
meaning me, for one of her pretty pet fawns. He&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>sqsu6l91ypzuxam3s4zncy8gigrvpm6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/53</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847467</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131927</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:12:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;said, &quot;Yes.&quot; When she started with me in her arms toward the door he screamed and cried so hard be- fore she could make him know she was only in fun. He said, &quot;Don't take my little sister. Go over the river to the big house and take that 'papoose' be- cause it cries so much.&quot; When the older brothers came they said, &quot;Why didn't you trade little sister for the fawn and two cub bears?&quot; Mary told her father. When he came again he brought the fawn and two cub...</comment>
      <origin>15131927</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1605" sha1="43sxmq4mykusf27d4khep9ih03w325f" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|47|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;said, &quot;Yes.&quot; When she started with me in her arms
toward the door he screamed and cried so hard be-
fore she could make him know she was only in fun.
He said, &quot;Don't take my little sister. Go over the
river to the big house and take that 'papoose' be-
cause it cries so much.&quot; When the older brothers
came they said, &quot;Why didn't you trade little sister
for the fawn and two cub bears?&quot; Mary told her
father. When he came again he brought the fawn
and two cubs to see if the boys would trade me away
for them. As soon as the boys saw the fawn and the
cubs they began to cry and beg mother not to let me
go. They did not want to trade little sister off for any
thing. All the time the chief remained they watched.
me, fearing he might take me. He was greatly
amused at the joke. I was delighted to play with
the fawn and the cubs were like kittens to play.
The fawn was inseparable from Mary, it loved
her so.

The days were longer now and the snow all
gone. Grass was beginning to show in many places.
The sun shone warm and bright. Mother said,
&quot;Spring is here, now don't you hear the birds sing?&quot;
Grandpa took us for little walks, but not far, as the
wolves were always neat almost every morning.
Sometimes two or three deer would come tearing
past our door, jumping into the river to save them-
selves from the packs of wolves chasing them, and
the bears would swim across the mouth of the river.
Indian hunters were always coming home from the
hunt loaded with game. Their deer meat was dried
and smoked for future use. The wolves would&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>43sxmq4mykusf27d4khep9ih03w325f</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/54</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847468</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131929</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:13:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;come close to our house and little brother and I would often try to call them to come and get some bread and butter, we thinking them dogs. Grandpa and Bob were always near us or we would have been eaten alive by the wolves.  {{ph|THE CHIEF'S DEPARTURE.}}  I remember one day soon after breakfast Mary and her father came with a number of other In- dians, Mary's aunt with the rest. A large canoe was packed and fitted out with all things necessary for a lon...</comment>
      <origin>15131929</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1531" sha1="emkhqd04vupmdicofqgsqc1579ltu48" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|48|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;come close to our house and little brother and I
would often try to call them to come and get some
bread and butter, we thinking them dogs. Grandpa
and Bob were always near us or we would have
been eaten alive by the wolves.

{{ph|THE CHIEF'S DEPARTURE.}}

I remember one day soon after breakfast Mary
and her father came with a number of other In-
dians, Mary's aunt with the rest. A large canoe
was packed and fitted out with all things necessary
for a long voyage. The chief and Mary's aunt were
going to Canada on a visit and Mary was to stay
with us till her father returned. Her father took
four men and Mary's aunt with him. Soon all was
ready. They shook hands and away sped the bark
canoe over the waves. Mary at first was sad to
have her father go, but soon was cheerful again.
She helped mother with her sewing and worked two
pretty pairs of moccasins and made leggings and
pretty garters. Some of the work was for her
father. Time passed and it began to be time for the
Chief's return. Mary grew restless as many
storms came. She would look out over the waters
for hours. Mother tried hard to comfort her and
tell her all would be well. But Mary must see to
believe. Her faith could not reach out very far into
unseen things. Grandpa tried to comfort her. He
would kneel down and pray for her father's return.

One day a young Indian came to our house to
see and talk to Mary. Mother told me afterward he
was Mary's lover and had promised her father not&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>emkhqd04vupmdicofqgsqc1579ltu48</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/188</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847469</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131930</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:14:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131930</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1487" sha1="kg55zzhts2u3ifm217d78gbfg7pfsr8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|182|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|Chapter XXII}}
{{dropcap|T}}{{uc|en}} months later Tom Mason leaned back against the red plush of the car seat and jingled some coins in his pocket.

&quot;Tell you what, Bye, we really are cleaning up. I hadn't expected anything like this run of engagements. Now suppose you beat it along to Mrs. Lea's and find out what special arrangements she wants made for the musicians to-night and I'll go on to Mrs. Lawlor and see about to-morrow.&quot;

Peter stared moodily at the flying landscape. &quot;I wish you'd come yourself, Mason. I hate to talk to these white people. Their damned patronizing airs make me sick.&quot;

&quot;What do you care about their patronizin'? All I'm interested in is gettin' what I can out of them. When I've made my pile, if I can't spend it here the way I please, Annie and me can pick up and go to South America or France. I hear they treat colored people all right there.&quot;

&quot;Treat colored people all right,{{' &quot;}} Peter mimicked. &quot;What business has any one 'treating' us, anyway? The world's ours as much as it is theirs. And I don't want to leave America. It's mine, my people helped make it. These very orchards we're passing now used to be the famous Bye orchards. My grandfather and great-grandfather helped to cultivate them.&quot;

&quot;Is that so? Honest?&quot; Tom showed a sudden respectful interest. &quot;How'd they come to lose them?&quot;

&quot;Lose them? They never owned them. The black Byes were slaves of the white Byes.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{fine|182}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>kg55zzhts2u3ifm217d78gbfg7pfsr8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15131932</id>
      <parentid>15131930</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:14:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15131932</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1449" sha1="mcik7bqzfrrqh7gq52sm4ra4ywnv6w3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|Chapter XXII}}
{{dropcap|T}}{{uc|en}} months later Tom Mason leaned back against the red plush of the car seat and jingled some coins in his pocket.

&quot;Tell you what, Bye, we really are cleaning up. I hadn't expected anything like this run of engagements. Now suppose you beat it along to Mrs. Lea's and find out what special arrangements she wants made for the musicians to-night and I'll go on to Mrs. Lawlor and see about to-morrow.&quot;

Peter stared moodily at the flying landscape. &quot;I wish you'd come yourself, Mason. I hate to talk to these white people. Their damned patronizing airs make me sick.&quot;

&quot;What do you care about their patronizin'? All I'm interested in is gettin' what I can out of them. When I've made my pile, if I can't spend it here the way I please, Annie and me can pick up and go to South America or France. I hear they treat colored people all right there.&quot;

&quot;Treat colored people all right,{{' &quot;}} Peter mimicked. &quot;What business has any one 'treating' us, anyway? The world's ours as much as it is theirs. And I don't want to leave America. It's mine, my people helped make it. These very orchards we're passing now used to be the famous Bye orchards. My grandfather and great-grandfather helped to cultivate them.&quot;

&quot;Is that so? Honest?&quot; Tom showed a sudden respectful interest. &quot;How'd they come to lose them?&quot;

&quot;Lose them? They never owned them. The black Byes were slaves of the white Byes.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{fine|182}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mcik7bqzfrrqh7gq52sm4ra4ywnv6w3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/55</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847470</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131931</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:14:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;to visit Mary in his absence. Hearing how wor- ried she was he had broken his promise. Mary seemed very sad, talked very little to him, and only when mother was present. She had also promised her father not to meet him while he was gone. The Chief had not given his full consent to their mar- riage. Another Chief's son had asked for Mary to be given him in marriage, which was now Mary's father's business away in Canada. She worried not so much for her fat...</comment>
      <origin>15131931</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1557" sha1="02ck7l6v6ojoxwfwmvjojji6iskqfel" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|49|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;to visit Mary in his absence. Hearing how wor-
ried she was he had broken his promise. Mary
seemed very sad, talked very little to him, and only
when mother was present. She had also promised
her father not to meet him while he was gone. The
Chief had not given his full consent to their mar-
riage. Another Chief's son had asked for Mary to
be given him in marriage, which was now Mary's
father's business away in Canada. She worried not
so much for her father's absence as she feared her
father and the Canadian chief would come to a
satisfactory understanding and that she might be
compelled to marry the Canadian lover whose father
had much land and stock. She felt worried because
her lover had broken his word to her father and she
feared his displeasure. Indians are very strict
about their laws and customs.

{{ph|RETURN OF THE CHIEF OSSAWINAMAKEE.}}

One day soon after this I saw the Chief coming
up the path to the house. He was not alone. Mary
was lying in the swinging hammock. She gave a
bound like a deer and reached the door just as her
father came in. She threw her arms about his neck
and fainted away. Mother put water on her face.
She soon opened her eyes and smiled at her father.
He took her hand and talked long to her. She
looked past him and saw the strange young Indian
standing beside the door. She gave a cry and put
her hands to her face. Her father called him to
come to them, speaking to them both. At last Mary
gave him her hand and spoke the Indian greeting,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>02ck7l6v6ojoxwfwmvjojji6iskqfel</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/57</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847471</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131933</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:15:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;riage of the Chief's daughter to the Canadian Chief's son, who had much land and stock to give his bride. When he talked with mother about it she asked him about the other young man and if he had not promised Mary to him. He answered, &quot;We come of a proud and haughty race. This young man has much land and riches while the other has nothing to give my daughter. No lands, no mon- eys.&quot; Mother said to him, &quot;You will miss Mary from your wigwam.&quot; At this he so...</comment>
      <origin>15131933</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1582" sha1="3n5hf4mfw37u4tgr0gypf0uq1xno09o" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|51|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;riage of the Chief's daughter to the Canadian
Chief's son, who had much land and stock to give
his bride. When he talked with mother about it
she asked him about the other young man and if he
had not promised Mary to him. He answered, &quot;We
come of a proud and haughty race. This young
man has much land and riches while the other has
nothing to give my daughter. No lands, no mon-
eys.&quot; Mother said to him, &quot;You will miss Mary
from your wigwam.&quot; At this he softened, then say-
ing, &quot;I have power to extend the time of Mary's
marriage.&quot;

On the day of the feast the sun shone clear
and bright. Our boys were up early and all seemed
to be in a hurry. Grandpa had made a little cart for
Bob to draw me in, so Bob's harness was all trim-
med with gay colored ribbons. Mother put on my
little red dress and pretty beaded moccasins which
Mary had made for me. Then I was put into the
cart and old Bob trotted off so proudly, thinking
perhaps of his younger days when he had brought
the great loads of furs from the Lake Superior
trapping grounds to the Sault and Mackinac Islands
to be sold to the traders there. Those were proud
days for the voyagers when all the village came
out to meet them from their long trips. After cross-
ing the river we were joined by the people on that
side, who were a happy lot. This was a holiday for
them all. An Indian feast which none had ever
before attended. Something to write about to their
far away homes. All went along singing. Old
grandpa singing his French and Spanish glee songs&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3n5hf4mfw37u4tgr0gypf0uq1xno09o</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/58</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847472</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131935</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:15:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;with the boys joining, which made the woods ring. We soon came to the lake, and the village of many wigwams was close beside the water.  {{ph|THE BEAUTIFUL LAKE AT THE INDIAN VILLAGE.}}  On that morning the lake was like a great mir- ror or a sea of glass, not a ripple stirred its surface and the beautiful trees were reflected on every side, hanging branches everywhere full of song birds, and swimming about near the shore were broods of ducks with their...</comment>
      <origin>15131935</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1593" sha1="9c20xmqq39kc6gw3qezxizznp6gf4kf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|52|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;with the boys joining, which made the woods ring.
We soon came to the lake, and the village of many
wigwams was close beside the water.

{{ph|THE BEAUTIFUL LAKE AT THE INDIAN VILLAGE.}}

On that morning the lake was like a great mir-
ror or a sea of glass, not a ripple stirred its surface
and the beautiful trees were reflected on every side,
hanging branches everywhere full of song birds,
and swimming about near the shore were broods of
ducks with their little ones among them. None
seemed to be afraid of us. There were many
young fawns wandering about and drinking
from the lake. Mossy banks and many flowers.
No one was allowed to harm the birds, fawns or
ducks. The place seemed rightly named &quot;The Lake
of Enchantment.&quot; I remember being carried into a
wigwam and laid on a bed of skins and furs. I
was so sleepy after my ride. When I awoke
I found myself alone and being frightened
began to cry. Very soon Bob came bounding in.
I took him by the collar and when we were out of
doors I saw a lot of Indian children with brother
Lewis and Toney running and jumping with them.
I saw mother and grandpa, with little brother, go-
ing into a large wigwam. I ran over to them.
In the middle of this lodge was a great fire with
many kettles hanging in which the dinner was being
cooked for the feast. The lodge had been made on
purpose for the (chemokamon) white man's cook-
ing to be done. Grandpa and mother had full charge
of this part. Father soon came and took little brother
and me where many young Indians and the white.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9c20xmqq39kc6gw3qezxizznp6gf4kf</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/59</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847473</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131936</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:16:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;men were playing a game of ball. There were many squaws and children all gaily dressed with many colored ribbons. Dogs were running about every- where, and young pet cub bears which the children. seemed to be taking care of. The squaws had been to our house and knew us children. They came to us, giving us little cakes of maple sugar.  {{ph|THE INDIAN MAIDEN IN HER WIGWAM.}}  After a time little brother and I wanted to see Mary, so father took us to her w...</comment>
      <origin>15131936</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1577" sha1="m0w1y5u0kmzmu3s1mj3dcvspqplwxd7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|53|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;men were playing a game of ball. There were many
squaws and children all gaily dressed with many
colored ribbons. Dogs were running about every-
where, and young pet cub bears which the children.
seemed to be taking care of. The squaws had been
to our house and knew us children. They came to us,
giving us little cakes of maple sugar.

{{ph|THE INDIAN MAIDEN IN HER WIGWAM.}}

After a time little brother and I wanted to see
Mary, so father took us to her wigwam, which was
covered with black bear skins. There we found
Mrs. Frankle with her sister and the children. Mary
was sitting on a bear skin rug with her hands folded.
and her eyes almost shut. I wish I could describe.
her as she looked sitting there in her dark beauty.
I could not take my eyes off her. She raised her
eyes and looked at me as if to know what I wanted
or what did I see. Then she smiled and sprang to
her feet, coming towards me. I backed away and
gave a great sob just as I have felt since when look-
ing at some beautiful picture. It seemed to thrill
me through and through. She seemed almost to
know my thoughts. She seemed almost afraid to
move. At last she took me in her arms and, sitting
down near Mrs. Frankle, the great tears rolled.
down her face. Mrs. Frankle put her face near
Mary's and kissed her. Then the great sobs came.
The Indian maiden may sob but never cry aloud
like her white skinned sisters. I wondered why
Mary should sob and the tears fall on my face when
she was so beautiful and had such beautiful clothes.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>m0w1y5u0kmzmu3s1mj3dcvspqplwxd7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/60</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847474</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131937</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:16:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;I felt of her dress and arms, passing my hands over her face, which made her smile. She then gave us some pretty shells to play with. Soon Mary's father came to see if she were ready to appear before the crowd. When his eyes rested on her a pleased look came over his face. He seemed to be satisfied, for he gave a shrug, saying &quot;ugh ni-chi-chin&quot; (good), meaning he was satisfied with her appearance. Little Charley and I had found the pretty leggings and mo...</comment>
      <origin>15131937</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1539" sha1="qbr1rc3dgdl92i4bila5o7480zpkidt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|54|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I felt of her dress and arms, passing my hands over
her face, which made her smile. She then gave us
some pretty shells to play with. Soon Mary's father
came to see if she were ready to appear before the
crowd. When his eyes rested on her a pleased look
came over his face. He seemed to be satisfied, for
he gave a shrug, saying &quot;ugh ni-chi-chin&quot; (good),
meaning he was satisfied with her appearance.
Little Charley and I had found the pretty leggings
and moccasins Mary had made for her father and
lover and ran to the Chief with them, holding them
up for him to see, telling him Mary made them. He
took them in his hand and smiled. He seemed
pleased, but Mary came as if to take them. He kept
them in his hand, talking long and earnestly to
her. She stood with her head bowed and sad. He
showed Miss Harriet and Mrs. Frankle the pretty
work, which they admired, but Mary seemed so
sad they wondered.

{{ph|THE SOUNDING OF THE DRUM.}}

We now heard a big drum and the barking of
dogs. Then all the men with Mr. Frankle came and
the Chief took Mary's hand. Father took me in his
arms and we all went out where there were a great
many Indians standing in a large circle. The Chief
and his daughter went into the circle and all the
white people followed. There were great skins of
bear and other furs spread about for the chemoka-
mon (white man) to sit upon, but all the Indians
must stand while the Chief made his speech and
gave the announcement of his daughter's marriage&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qbr1rc3dgdl92i4bila5o7480zpkidt</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/189</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847475</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131938</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:16:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131938</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1846" sha1="mlo17uavc8g4ij6a649bsnctkornpu7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|183|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;Oh, slaves! Oh, you mean they worked in the fields? Well, I guess that's different. Come on, here we are.&quot;

Peter flung himself out of the car after Tom and followed him up a tree-lined street. The suburban town stretched calm, peaceful and superior about them. Clearly this was the home of the rich and well-born. It is true that a few ordinary mortals lived here, but mainly to do the bidding of the wealthy. A group of young white girls, passing the two men, glanced at them a little curiously.

&quot;Entertainers for the Lea affair,&quot; one of them said, making no effort to keep from being overheard.

Peter stopped short. &quot;That's what I hate,&quot; he said fiercely. &quot;Labeled because we're black.&quot;

&quot;Ain't you got a grouch, though!&quot; Tom spoke almost admiringly. He told his sister afterwards: &quot;Bye's got this here—now—temper'ment. Never can tell how it's goin' to take him. Seems different since he started keeping company with Maggie, don't you think so?&quot;

Annie admitted she did.

At present Tom patted Peter on the shoulder, and starting him up the driveway which led to Mrs. Lea's large low white house, went on himself to Mrs. Lawlor.

Mrs. Lea received Peter in a small morning-room. She was pretty, a genuine blonde, with small delicate features and beautiful fluffy hair. But as Peter did not like fair types, his mind simply registered &quot;washed-out,&quot; and took no further stock of her looks. What he did notice was that she was dressed in a lacey, too transparent floating robe, too low in the neck, and too short in the skirt.

&quot;Something she would wear only before some one for whom she cared very much, or some one whom she didn't think worth considering,&quot; he told himself, lowering.

Mrs. Lea, leading him into the ballroom beyond, barely glanced at him. &quot;See, the musicians are to sit behind those&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mlo17uavc8g4ij6a649bsnctkornpu7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/61</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847476</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131940</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:17:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;with the Canadian Chief's son, who was now his guest.  {{ph|CHIEF OSSAWINAMAKEE'S SPEECH.}}  The chief walked into the circle with a proud and haughty tread, waving his hand for all to be silent. I knew nothing of what he said, but my father told me when I was old enough to under- stand. I remember his form. He was tall and stately, with a fine appearance, and was dressed as became the chief of the proud Ottawa tribe. Many silver ornaments were on his br...</comment>
      <origin>15131940</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1475" sha1="ed9db80sbrt8e8g65iowcaqcr02zj0g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|55|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;with the Canadian Chief's son, who was now his
guest.

{{ph|CHIEF OSSAWINAMAKEE'S SPEECH.}}

The chief walked into the circle with a proud
and haughty tread, waving his hand for all to be
silent. I knew nothing of what he said, but my
father told me when I was old enough to under-
stand. I remember his form. He was tall and
stately, with a fine appearance, and was dressed
as became the chief of the proud Ottawa tribe.
Many silver ornaments were on his breast. He
talked a long time, while all listened in stately
silence.

After a time he was silent and two more forms
appeared within the circle. The first to enter was
the Canadian Indian. His step was firm, his head
high, his look bold; he was dressed in bright red,
with beaded leggings and many feathers around his
head. The other one came in with a soft and silent
step. His form was slight and willowy. He was
dressed in a deer skin suit, with beaded leggings,
silver ornaments on his breast, and a band about
his head filled with eagle feathers. He came close
to the Chief, his eyes were looking down, his face
seemed sad. He was Mary's true lover, the son
of a chief of the Chippewas, whose father had died,
leaving him in the care of Mary's father. His
father had been a great warrior and owned much
land, but had lost it all in long wars with other
nations. The name of this young chief was Sha-
wan-nib-in-asse (southern bird). Mary and he had&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ed9db80sbrt8e8g65iowcaqcr02zj0g</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/62</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847477</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131941</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:17:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;been raised together with the understanding they would be joined in marriage sometime, but in one of the chief's trips to Canada with his young daughter, the chief of a tribe there had asked for Mary for his son. Being rich, Chief Ossawinama- kee thought it best to give his daughter to the rich chief's son. Very soon the chief presented the Can- adian Indian with a pair of leggings and moccasins, saying they were a present from his daughter. The young In...</comment>
      <origin>15131941</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1543" sha1="kfs4igu6927egqa9sfli7aw65v161y1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|56|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;been raised together with the understanding they
would be joined in marriage sometime, but in one
of the chief's trips to Canada with his young
daughter, the chief of a tribe there had asked for
Mary for his son. Being rich, Chief Ossawinama-
kee thought it best to give his daughter to the rich
chief's son. Very soon the chief presented the Can-
adian Indian with a pair of leggings and moccasins,
saying they were a present from his daughter. The
young Indian expressed his thanks with many bows.
casting many looks of triumph at Mary's lover.
When Mary saw these presents given she almost
gave a scream. She stepped forward as if to take
them from his hands.

{{ph|ALL ENJOYMENT.}}

As soon as the speeches were ended all sat in
circles. The Chief's circle was filled with his own
family, his sisters and their families and his Cana-
dian guest. The Chemokamons were by themselves.
The Indians with their squaws and children had
corn soup served with dried venison and fish. The
soup was put in large pans with only one large
wooden spoon or ladle. When one took a spoonful
it was passed to the next and so on around the circle
of about twelve or fifteen persons. The white peo-
ple also had corn soup or maize, as it was called,
corn pounded in a wooden mortar, with dried
smoked venison and broiled white fish, baked pota-
toes and many other things which mother had pre-
pared herself. There was much talking and laugh-
ing among the Indians as well as white people. The&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>kfs4igu6927egqa9sfli7aw65v161y1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/63</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847478</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131942</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:18:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;dogs ran round the outside of the circle and every time the drum was beaten they would yelp and bark while Bob would howl. The fawns and deer came near to us as if enjoying the sport, while the little. cub bears scampered away to a cute little wigwam where they slept at night. All was mirth and gai- ety. When the eating was over the Chief arose, raised his head high, giving thanks to the Great Spirit, and buried a small piece of silver to entreat good cr...</comment>
      <origin>15131942</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1558" sha1="lykjfoiqk7y66ldm3jbv9pj70iw3j7h" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|57|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;dogs ran round the outside of the circle and every
time the drum was beaten they would yelp and bark
while Bob would howl. The fawns and deer came
near to us as if enjoying the sport, while the little.
cub bears scampered away to a cute little wigwam
where they slept at night. All was mirth and gai-
ety. When the eating was over the Chief arose,
raised his head high, giving thanks to the Great
Spirit, and buried a small piece of silver to entreat
good crops and full hunting grounds for that year.
There was jumping and canoe paddling among the
Indians, which ended the day's sport. There had
been a white dog killed, as was the custom at their
feasts. We saw the pelt stretched up to dry. Father
told me many times that all went home at sunset
niuch pleased with their day of pleasure and sport.
The white people were delighted with Indian feasts
and declared that no ''White Dog'' had been served to
them in ''their Corn Soup'', knowing my mother had
charge of their cooking.

{{ph|ENDING OF THE FEAST AND SAD ENDING OF A YOUNG LIFE.}}

Early next morning all was excitement at the
Indian Village, for Mary's lover, Sha-wan-nib-in-
asse, was dead. All suspicion pointed to the Can-
adian Indian poisoning him through jealousy. The
Indian women told my mother at the feast that all
the week they had feared the two young men would
fight, as they hated each other with a deadly hatred.
Now the whole village was ready to kill the Canad-
ian Indian, as none had ever liked him for the rea-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lykjfoiqk7y66ldm3jbv9pj70iw3j7h</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/64</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847479</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131943</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:19:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;son that he was British. The old hatred had not. died out from their hearts, even though peace had been declared so long among the tribes. The Can- adian Indian hurried from the Village and stopped at our house on his way down the shore, where he soon reached a small trading vessel and made his way home to Canada. Mary was very sorrowful with grief at the death of her lover, and her father was sure the Great Spirit was displeased with him. for favoring t...</comment>
      <origin>15131943</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1592" sha1="s0a44en3niu0a5mehjq9i9v9gdtl88m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|58|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;son that he was British. The old hatred had not.
died out from their hearts, even though peace had
been declared so long among the tribes. The Can-
adian Indian hurried from the Village and stopped
at our house on his way down the shore, where he
soon reached a small trading vessel and made his
way home to Canada. Mary was very sorrowful
with grief at the death of her lover, and her father
was sure the Great Spirit was displeased with him.
for favoring the Canadian Indian. We were all
afraid it might cause a war, as all the Indians at the
Village wanted their Chief to go to Canada and get
satisfaction from the father in Canada. The white
people advised the Chief Ossawinamakee not to go
to war, as his whole tribe would be killed, having
no warriors to be a match for the Canadian Indians.
The tribe had lived in peace so long war was only
history to them. The Chief took the advice.

{{ph|BURIAL OF SHA-WAN-NIB-IN-ASSE.}}

They buried the young lover with great honor,
buried him with the sound of the muffled drum.
Father made the casket and mother was there to
help them. They dressed him in the pretty leggings
and moccasins Mary had made for him, putting the
other pair with bows and arrows, silver breastplates.
with a small kettle and wooden ladle and gun, into
the casket as was their custom when burying their
dead. They buried him beside the peaceful little
lake where the branches of the trees were filled with
singing birds. Though a child of the forest he had
loved Mary with a pure and holy love.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>s0a44en3niu0a5mehjq9i9v9gdtl88m</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/190</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847480</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131944</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:19:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131944</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1886" sha1="akbdm2cow38ozv8267fo3hlb3dm8tac" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|184|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;palms and the piano will be completely banked with flowers. I'm expecting the decorators every moment. Your men will have to get here very early so as to get behind all this without being seen. I want the effect of music instead of perfume pouring out of the flowers. Do you get the idea—er—what did you say your name was?&quot;

&quot;Yes, I understand,&quot; said Peter shortly. &quot;My name is Bye.&quot;

&quot;I meant your first name—Bye—why, that's the name of a family in Bryn Mawr, who used to own half of the land about here. There're a Dr. Meriwether Bye and his grandfather, Dr. Meriwether Bye, living in the old Bye house now. Where do you come from?&quot;

&quot;I was born in Philadelphia like my father and grandfather and his father before him.&quot;

She stated the obvious conclusion: &quot;Probably your parents belonged to the Bryn Mawr Byes.&quot;

&quot;So my father told me,&quot; replied Peter, affecting a composure equal to her own. &quot;His name was Meriwether Bye.&quot;

She did not like that. She decided she did not like him either—eyeing his straight, fine figure and meeting his unyielding look. These niggers with their uppish ways! Besides this one looked, looked—indefinably he reminded her of young Meriwether Bye. She spoke to him:

&quot;I don't want you to leave to-night before I get a chance to point you out to young Dr. Bye. He'll be so interested.&quot; She looked at Peter again. Yes, he was intelligent enough to get the full force of what she wanted to say. &quot;It's so in keeping with things that the grandson of the man who was slave to his grandfather should be his entertainer to-night.&quot;

Peter felt his skin tightening. &quot;I'm afraid you'll be disappointed. I'm a medical student, not an entertainer. I came here for Mr. Mason, who is very busy. You may be sure I'll give him your instructions. Good-day, Mrs. Lea.&quot;

He rushed out of the house, down to the station where,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>akbdm2cow38ozv8267fo3hlb3dm8tac</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/65</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847481</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131945</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:19:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ph|ON BOARD THE ELIZA CAROLINE.}}  My father had now finished his contract with Mr. Frankle at the mill. Hearing that there were many people settling on &quot;Beaver Island,&quot; several families that we knew from York State, Ohio and Canada, he made up his mind to go there. Our goods were put on board the staunch little ship &quot;Eliza Caroline,&quot; the vessel my father had built the year before. The Chief and his daughter Mary came to say good-by. Good-bys were said...</comment>
      <origin>15131945</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1200" sha1="fyufqiyebkq2tdutjgmxjekcmdy1fo9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|59|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|ON BOARD THE ELIZA CAROLINE.}}

My father had now finished his contract with Mr.
Frankle at the mill. Hearing that there were many
people settling on &quot;Beaver Island,&quot; several families
that we knew from York State, Ohio and Canada,
he made up his mind to go there. Our goods were
put on board the staunch little ship &quot;Eliza Caroline,&quot;
the vessel my father had built the year before. The
Chief and his daughter Mary came to say good-by.
Good-bys were said to our good neighbors across
the river in the big house. We had all become very
dear friends to each other. There were many kind
wishes and God-speeds for us when the Captain said
&quot;all aboard.&quot; White sails were set and we glided
from the river out onto Lake Michigan just as the
sun was sinking in the west. Darkness soon shut out
the forms of our friends that stood waving to us
from the shore. We knew we were once more out
on the water on God's great rolling cradle of the
sea. We children, with mother and grandpa, said
our prayers in the little cabin and were soon fast
asleep with the sound of the rippling waves singing
to us a sweet lullaby of peace and rest.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fyufqiyebkq2tdutjgmxjekcmdy1fo9</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/191</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847483</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131947</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:21:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131947</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1733" sha1="4oiuponvwbtxljgcrb3rwe6skymny24" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|185|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;without waiting for Tom, he boarded the train. Not far from the West Philadelphia depot he pushed the bell of a certain house, flung open the unlocked door and rushed up a flight of stairs.

In a small room to his left he found the person he was seeking, a short, almost black young fellow who lifted a dejected and then an amazed countenance toward him.

&quot;Am I seeing things? Where'd you blow in from, Pete? Thought you'd chucked us all, the old school and all the rest of it.&quot;

&quot;I haven't, I've been a fool, a damned fool, but I'm back to my senses. I'm going back to my classes and I tell you, Ed Morgan, I'll clean up. See here, you've got to do me a favor.&quot;

&quot;Name it.&quot;

&quot;You know Mason, Tom Mason on Fifteenth Street? I've been playing for him. But I can't stick it any longer. Tom's all right, but I can't stand his customers. Besides, I've got to get back to work. I'm quitting this minute—see. But Tom's got a big dance on, near Bryn Mawr to-night at a Mrs.—Mrs. Lea,&quot; he gulped. &quot;Good pay and all that. You can play as well as I can, Ed. Easy stuff, you can read it. You got to do it.&quot;

&quot;Do it! Man, lead me to that job. I'm broke, see, stony broke, busted.&quot; He turned his pockets inside out. &quot;I was just wondering what I could pawn. And I need instruments—Oh, Lord!&quot;

Peter gave him some money. &quot;Take this, you can pay me any time. Only rush down to Tom's and tell him I can't come. I'm dead—see?—drowned, fallen in the Schuylkill. And see here, old fellow, afterwards we'll have a talk. I want everything, everything, mind you, that you can remember, every note, every bit of paper that bears on the work of these last ten months. And I'll show them—&quot; he seemed to forget&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4oiuponvwbtxljgcrb3rwe6skymny24</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/67</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847484</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131948</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:22:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;hard struggle which he made for the leadership, Brigham Young was chosen as Smith's successor.  {{ph|BEAVER ISLAND CHOSEN AS A KINGDOM.}}  Strang felt his defeat very keenly and withdrew with a few of his followers who had entire belief in his revelations. He now went to Kirtland, Ohio, where a Mormon temple had been built as a place of worship for the Latter Day Saints, as they are now commonly known. Strang soon became restless. Brigham Young had alrea...</comment>
      <origin>15131948</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1592" sha1="qqijseypsl2g8tx1ojwmw08yfdxvz79" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|61|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;hard struggle which he made for the leadership,
Brigham Young was chosen as Smith's successor.

{{ph|BEAVER ISLAND CHOSEN AS A KINGDOM.}}

Strang felt his defeat very keenly and withdrew
with a few of his followers who had entire belief in
his revelations. He now went to Kirtland, Ohio,
where a Mormon temple had been built as a place of
worship for the Latter Day Saints, as they are now
commonly known. Strang soon became restless.
Brigham Young had already gone with a large num-
ber of Smith's followers to Salt Lake City, Utah.
Strang wanted more territory, more privileges, which
he knew he could not have in Kirtland, so he began
to look about for a place where he could establish a
kingdom over which he could rule with undisputed
sway. Being a lawyer and understanding the law so
perfectly he knew he could not carry out his plans.
unless he found some secluded place where the law
of the land could not easily reach him, and where
could he find a place better suited to carry out his
plans than Beaver Island? In 1846, two years prior
to Strang's coming to Beaver Island to establish his
kingdom he was on his way west to Wisconsin.
The steamer he took passage on was driven into
Beaver Harbor to seek shelter from a storm. When
Strang, was telling all this to my father he said.
&quot;When my eyes first rested on Beaver Island I
thought it the most beautiful place on earth.&quot;

At the time Strang was there, a Mr. Alva Cable.
from Fairport, Ohio, had located at the Point
and was establishing a business. He had built a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qqijseypsl2g8tx1ojwmw08yfdxvz79</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/68</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847485</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131949</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:23:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;dock, a store and a fine large dwelling and was al- ready buying fish from the fishermen and shipping them to outside markets.  {{ph|STRANG'S FIRST COMING TO THE ISLAND WITH HIS PEOPLE.}}  Strang had already settled in his mind to locate at Cheboygan, Mich., having looked over the loca- tion. Mackinac Island being just near enough for him to get their supplies. At that time Mackinac Island was the largest fish market in northern Mich- igan, furnishing su...</comment>
      <origin>15131949</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1530" sha1="jdvn05rt1srljn4p70z0e5btnnm3fef" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|62|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;dock, a store and a fine large dwelling and was al-
ready buying fish from the fishermen and shipping
them to outside markets.

{{ph|STRANG'S FIRST COMING TO THE ISLAND WITH HIS PEOPLE.}}

Strang had already settled in his mind to locate
at Cheboygan, Mich., having looked over the loca-
tion. Mackinac Island being just near enough for
him to get their supplies. At that time Mackinac
Island was the largest fish market in northern Mich-
igan, furnishing supplies to the whole north shore
and fishermen among the great number of islands,
its several stores furnishing everything necessary to
the people around and being in close touch with the
outside world, having a postoffice and mails coming
there from Detroit.

But when Strang saw Beaver Island, its beauti-
ful harbor, fine timber and natural beauty of scen-
ery, the thought came to him like an inspiration, and
he said, &quot;This is where I will come to build up my
kingdom.&quot; And when he saw all the improvements
being done he had no doubt but he could soon have.
all the people about the shore as his followers. But
there was much to hinder before he could persuade
many of his followers to come and locate on a
lonely island, as it seemed to them, in the middle of
Lake Michigan. Also Strang's wife was not a be-
liever in the Mormon doctrine, having no faith in
the revelations he claimed to have; but Strang had
a great command of language and possessed a
strong will power. He at last persuaded a few of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jdvn05rt1srljn4p70z0e5btnnm3fef</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/69</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847486</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131950</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:23:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;his followers to come with him to Beaver Island, where they landed from a steamer in the early part of June, 1848, two years after he had first seen the island. About twenty-five people came with him, and before navigation closed over a hundred more had landed, most of them being all unprepared for a long, cold winter on an island where the snows were extremely deep in winter.  {{ph|PAYMENT TIME FOR THE INDIANS.}}  The whole surrounding country at that t...</comment>
      <origin>15131950</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1563" sha1="cwxm68mlh45thq32726pvs93crs8x9j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|63|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;his followers to come with him to Beaver Island,
where they landed from a steamer in the early part
of June, 1848, two years after he had first seen the
island. About twenty-five people came with him,
and before navigation closed over a hundred more
had landed, most of them being all unprepared for a
long, cold winter on an island where the snows were
extremely deep in winter.

{{ph|PAYMENT TIME FOR THE INDIANS.}}

The whole surrounding country at that time was
a wilderness. White settlers were few in number.
There were many different tribes of Indians wan-
dering about from place to place on their hunting
and fishing tours. They were all peaceably inclined,
many remained long enough to plant small gardens
near the shores, but never clearing the land at any
distance back from the shore. The woods were
filled with abundance of game to satisfy all their
wants and needs. The red men of the forest were
best satisfied in their own native wilds. They
were nature's children. The trees, flowers, buds,
leaves and waves on the shore all whispered their
mystery of the great and good Spirit that ruled all
things. In those days the Indians were receiving
payments from the government. An agent was em-
ployed with a clerk to make these annual pay-
ments. Sometimes the money would be paid out
at Sault Ste. Marie, sometimes Green Bay was
the place of gathering, other times Mackinac Island.
Then the tribes would gather from far and near,
bringing their whole families to receive their money.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cwxm68mlh45thq32726pvs93crs8x9j</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/192</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847487</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131952</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:23:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131952</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1823" sha1="bgarap1gqx1xf4q05vfacy3gy6dxbq9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|186|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Morgan— &quot;with their damned talk of entertainers.&quot; Down the stairs he ran, still talking.

&quot;Mad, quite mad,&quot; said little Morgan, staring. &quot;Glad he's coming back to work, though. Now, where'd I put that cap?&quot;

Still at white heat, Peter walked the few short blocks to his boarding house. Once inside his room he shut himself in and paced the floor.

&quot;The grandson—that's me—of the man who was his grandfather's slave should be his—that's Meriwether Bye, young Dr. Meriwether Bye—should be his entertainer, his hired entertainer.

&quot;My grandfather didn't have a chance, but here I am half a century after and I'm still a slave, an entertainer. My grandfather. Let's see, which one of the Byes was that?&quot;

He went to the closet, pushed some books and papers aside and hauled down the old Bye Bible. The leaves, streaked and brown, stuck together. With clumsy, unaccustomed fingers he turned them, until at last between the Old Testament and the Apochrypha he found what he was looking for: &quot;Record of Births and Deaths.&quot;

The old, stiff, faded writing with the long German ''s'', the work of hands long since still, smote him with a sense of worthlessness. These people, according to their lights, must have considered themselves &quot;people of importance,&quot; else why this careful record of dates?

His lean brown finger traced the lines. &quot;Joshua Bye, born about 1780&quot;—heavens, that must have been his great-great-grandfather. No, maybe he was just a &quot;great,&quot; for the black Byes, he remembered hearing his father Meriwether say, lived long and married late.

&quot;Isaiah Bye, born 1830—a child of freedom.&quot; How proud they had been of that! Yes, that was his grandfather, he remembered now. And he had made a great deal of that freedom. Meriwether had often dwelt with pride on Isaiah's&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bgarap1gqx1xf4q05vfacy3gy6dxbq9</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/70</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847488</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131953</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:24:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;That was a happy time for the red man and his fam- ily to know the &quot;Great Father&quot; at Washington was such a friend. Payment time, as it was called, also made trade for the white man.  {{ph|THE INDIANS AND THEIR ISLANDS.}}  There was a large band of Indians living on Garden Island, three miles distant north from Beav- er Island. This island had been deeded to them by the government as their own. Also another island about six miles west of Beaver Island, ca...</comment>
      <origin>15131953</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1559" sha1="2pwuqu9bo8y3msh90oqzltpu39ob6h6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|64|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;That was a happy time for the red man and his fam-
ily to know the &quot;Great Father&quot; at Washington was
such a friend. Payment time, as it was called, also
made trade for the white man.

{{ph|THE INDIANS AND THEIR ISLANDS.}}

There was a large band of Indians living on
Garden Island, three miles distant north from Beav-
er Island. This island had been deeded to them by
the government as their own. Also another island
about six miles west of Beaver Island, called High
Island. Both these Islands were fertile, covered
with heavy timber, and both afforded good fishing
opportunities with good harbors at each island.
Strang's people never having seen Indians before
were naturally very timid, especially when the In-
dians gathered at Beaver Harbor to sell their fish
and being friendly often called at the Chemokamon's
house. The Indian being of an inquisitive nature,
wanted to see how the white brothers lived in their
homes. Strang himself said he felt none too sure
of his own life when he saw so many coming to his
home, but the Indians and their squaws with their
papooses on their backs, that being the fashion of
carrying their young children, were always smiling
and good natured, which very soon reassured
Strang and his people that they were friendly and
meant them no harm. At first the Mormons always
kept their doors locked and barred. Strang soon
preached to them to leave their doors open to their
Indian friends, which they did with the faith that
their King knew best.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2pwuqu9bo8y3msh90oqzltpu39ob6h6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/73</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847489</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131954</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:25:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ph|STRANG CALLING ON US.}}  About the time my people came to Beaver Island. the property at the Point in Beaver Harbor was just changing hands, Mr. Alva Cable having sold his dock and buildings to a Mr. Peter McKinley from Painesville, Ohio, who came with his family and took possession at once, putting in a supply of pro- visions for the fall trade with the fishermen.  Strang soon called on our people, and was anx- ious to have my father build our home...</comment>
      <origin>15131954</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1521" sha1="89r9hy5q2uzv763bxjxenwrtpk1ati0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|65|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|STRANG CALLING ON US.}}

About the time my people came to Beaver Island.
the property at the Point in Beaver Harbor was just
changing hands, Mr. Alva Cable having sold his
dock and buildings to a Mr. Peter McKinley from
Painesville, Ohio, who came with his family and
took possession at once, putting in a supply of pro-
visions for the fall trade with the fishermen.

Strang soon called on our people, and was anx-
ious to have my father build our home near the Mor-
mon settlement at the harbor, promising there would.
be plenty of work, as more of his people were con-
stantly coming. Strang was so friendly and sent
many of his people to call on us. His wife also
called on us. She was a bright, sensible, noble
woman, and we found her friendship was true. My
mother being a nurse, Strang told her he would al-
ways be glad of her assistance when any of his peo-
ple were sick. Our people had never heard about
Mormons before and knew nothing about their be-
lief or doctrine. Mother told me many times after-
ward it seemed very strange to her seeing the Mor-
mon women dressed in short dresses with hair cut
short and keeping Saturday for their Sunday.
When mother spoke to them about it they told her
that King Strang had all these revelations from God
and that, he being their leader, they must obey what
he said.

{{ph|FIRST SETTLERS.}}

Our house was soon finished. Father had built it.
near to a Gentile family, an elderly couple from Tor-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>89r9hy5q2uzv763bxjxenwrtpk1ati0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/74</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847490</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131956</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:25:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;onto, Canada. They had bought a small piece of land from the government, making themselves at home the year previous to the coming of the Mor- mons. They were an Irish family with considerable. means. They first came to Mackinac Island to visit a nephew, Mr. P. Kilty. They took a little trip to Beaver Island with others, and were so pleased with it, thinking it would soon be settled and make a desirable place to live. Their name was Loaney, and the place...</comment>
      <origin>15131956</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1582" sha1="bibthxc2f3qmqixxiq7p5z94jl49nw8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|66|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;onto, Canada. They had bought a small piece of
land from the government, making themselves at
home the year previous to the coming of the Mor-
mons. They were an Irish family with considerable.
means. They first came to Mackinac Island to
visit a nephew, Mr. P. Kilty. They took a little
trip to Beaver Island with others, and were so
pleased with it, thinking it would soon be settled and
make a desirable place to live. Their name was
Loaney, and the place where they located has always
borne the name of Loaney's Point. It was on the
south side of Beaver Harbor, distant about two
miles from the village. On the end of Loaney's
Point rests a large boulder which has always
been a land mark, sometimes looming up looking
like a great black steamer near the shore. Mr.
Loaney's nephew, P. Kilty, also located at the Island
and was driven away with the rest of the Gentiles,
returning again after the Mormons were sent away.
from the Island, residing many years there and
being a successful fisherman and farmer. His son,
Mr. Peter Kilty, is now, and has been for several
years, a captain on one of the large steamboats on
lake Michigan. The old couple, Mr. and Mrs.
Loaney, had some sad experience with their Mor-
mon neighbors, losing their home and all they
had by their persecutions. After the Mormons were
driven off the Island Mr. Loaney returned and was
appointed keeper of the Beaver Island lighthouse.
at the head of the Island, holding the position sev-
eral years, he being the second keeper having charge&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bibthxc2f3qmqixxiq7p5z94jl49nw8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/75</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847491</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131958</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:26:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;of that station, a Mr. Van Allen being the first keeper when the light was first erected.  {{ph|PREPARING FOR WINTER.}}  The winter of 1849 was an extremely cold win- ter, with heavy ice and deep snows. Our summer boarders had all packed and gone to their homes. Father had brought our provisions home and packed it away for winter use. Many of our Mor- mon neighbors with their children came often to see us, and we children played with them. Mr. Loaney had...</comment>
      <origin>15131958</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1471" sha1="cx5s5v14hmq7l104mza6a6zthasu5ue" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|67|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of that station, a Mr. Van Allen being the first
keeper when the light was first erected.

{{ph|PREPARING FOR WINTER.}}

The winter of 1849 was an extremely cold win-
ter, with heavy ice and deep snows. Our summer
boarders had all packed and gone to their homes.
Father had brought our provisions home and
packed it away for winter use. Many of our Mor-
mon neighbors with their children came often to
see us, and we children played with them. Mr.
Loaney had some cows and Auntie Loaney was al-
ways bringing us milk as well as to her Mormont
neighbors. Our boys and father and mother were
very busy making a large fishing seine for a man
in Ohio who was coming the next spring.

{{ph|GOING OVER TO THE POINT TO DINNER WITH THE MCKINLEYS.}}

Before the ice came in the fall father took us all
in our boat across to the Point so mother could do
some shopping. Mr. McKinley was a very kind and
pleasant man and would have us go to his house for
dinner. He wanted us to get acquainted with his fam-
ily. Father took us over to their nice, large and com-
fortable home. Mrs. McKinley was very kind and
seemed pleased to see us. She was a pretty, bright-
faced woman, slender, with dark hair and eyes. She
had three little girls, Sarah the eldest, Effie and
Mary. We children were soon acquainted, playing
with the dolls and having tea with the children's lit-
tle dishes. Mr. McKinley had a sister living with&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cx5s5v14hmq7l104mza6a6zthasu5ue</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/76</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847492</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131960</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:27:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;him whom the children called &quot;Aunt Ann.&quot; She was very kind to us, giving us many slices of bread and butter with cups of milk.  I remember the children had such beautiful hair, which I admired so much. Mother helped to set the table and get the dinner on the table, as they boarded several of their help. Our boys were out exploring the Point with some Mormon boys. When we were ready to go home Mrs. McKinley filled a great basket with large red apples for...</comment>
      <origin>15131960</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1606" sha1="i1bfw2a8wlagr7txat667wrg4z92c55" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|68|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;him whom the children called &quot;Aunt Ann.&quot; She was
very kind to us, giving us many slices of bread and
butter with cups of milk.

I remember the children had such beautiful hair,
which I admired so much. Mother helped to set the
table and get the dinner on the table, as they
boarded several of their help. Our boys were out
exploring the Point with some Mormon boys.
When we were ready to go home Mrs. McKinley
filled a great basket with large red apples for us to
take home. Father thanked her, saying he ought
not to take them, as he had two barrels at the store.
for winter use. She said, &quot;Do take these apples,
they came from home in Ohio and are better than
the apples at the store. Now I want you to have
them.&quot; We children played together until the last
moment. The little girls gave me large packages
of candy. Kissing them I promised to come again
sometime. Mrs. McKinley was very kind, wanting
us all to come again. Father told me afterward.
when I was older how lonely she was, missing her
Ohio home so much. She asked father what he
thought about our Mormon neighbors. He said he
knew very little about them, so far they had been
very kind and pleasant. She told him her fears,
saying, &quot;I have no faith in Strang at all. I fear
he is misleading those people and I am afraid they
will cause us all lots of trouble before long, but my
husband thinks they are a well-meaning people.
We have invested considerable money, which I feel
quite sure we shall regret.&quot; Father tried to en-
courage her to feel more hopeful, but she said she&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>i1bfw2a8wlagr7txat667wrg4z92c55</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu/63</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847493</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131961</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:27:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131961</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1494" sha1="oq8dr5409y0tuk5oxfdmakcecg69cil" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{c|( 49 )}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=follow|Ye Virgin-Daughters of the Sun, who dwell {{pline|275|r}}
In blest Boeötian realms, a long farewel!
From happy realms reluctant now I go,
To raging Elements and scenes of Woe.
{{em}}Now o'er the briny Deep, impetuous bore,
The scudding Vessel stem'd th' Athenian shore, {{pline|280|r}}
The Pilots o'er the quarters, nice inspect
The foll'wing surges, and her course direct;
The Steersmen ev'ry bidden turn apply,
And round the whirling spokes successive fly:
Thus they conduct the flying Ship before {{SIC|{{pline|528|r}}|285}}
Th' impelling Floods that bear her to the shore;
Sparkling they rise, in fiery radiance bright,
The stern o'er-tow'ring with enormous height:
The raging Storms with madd'ning Fury blend,
And from on high, huge Cataracts descend: {{pline|290|r}}
At each mast-head, diffusing livid rays,
Amidst the gloom volatic meteors blaze:
A dreadful contrast Heav'n's expanse invades,
Now all on Fire, now wrapt in tenfold shades;
Vast sheets of Flame still dart intenser Light, {{pline|295|r}}
Redoubling all the Horrors of the Night:
Approaching Thunders, roaring now on high,
In dread concussion rend the vaulted Sky;
While Heav'n convulsing feels the dire discharge,
Loud, and more loud, the crashing peals enlarge; {{pline|300|r}}
The Earth all trembling, groans from Pole to Pole,
And Nature shudders at the horrid roll.
{{em}}The scene replete with Terror seems to rise
In ev'ry striking form before my eyes;}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|But}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>oq8dr5409y0tuk5oxfdmakcecg69cil</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/77</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847494</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131963</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:27:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;could not feel they were true. She liked Mrs. Strang, as everybody did who knew her.  Soon after this the cold snows of winter were upon us, ice made very fast. We heard no more the whistle of the boats, and saw no more the white sails of the vessels and fish boats that sailed in and out of the pretty harbor. I was young, yet I remembered and missed all these things.  {{ph|KIND NEIGHBORS.}}  I was never tired going over to see Uncle and Auntie Loaney, as...</comment>
      <origin>15131963</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1534" sha1="5h1q7lrlowfa1lzuwscumeiyu6iyhxf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|69|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;could not feel they were true. She liked Mrs.
Strang, as everybody did who knew her.

Soon after this the cold snows of winter were
upon us, ice made very fast. We heard no more the
whistle of the boats, and saw no more the white sails
of the vessels and fish boats that sailed in and out of
the pretty harbor. I was young, yet I remembered
and missed all these things.

{{ph|KIND NEIGHBORS.}}

I was never tired going over to see Uncle and
Auntie Loaney, as they taught us children to call
them. They were a dear old couple and loved us
the same as if we were their own. I remember the
pretty large cat with the little white kittens. When
she gave me bread and milk I would sit on her
clean white floor, and it was hard to know which
ate most of that bread and milk, myself or the cats.
I used to take my dolls over and stay days at a
time with Auntie, and when mother came after me
she would say, &quot;Oh don't take her away home.
Sure you have four and I have none at all. at all.
Now you must leave me one.&quot; Then little brother
Charley would go and stay a while with them until
he got lonely for the rest of us. In that way we
took turns being with our kind, good neighbors all
the time we lived near them. Some of us were
always with them. They had a son married and
doing business in Toronto. The next year he came
to visit them for a month. Then how pleased she
was to tell Michael how good we little children were
to her. We children all loved them dearly.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5h1q7lrlowfa1lzuwscumeiyu6iyhxf</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/78</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847495</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131966</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:28:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;Winter was advancing. There was much sick- ness among the Mormon people. Food was scarce. with no means to buy, and clothing thin for a northern winter. Mother was called away from home to care for them, and we children were often. left at home with grandpa and father. Auntie and Uncle Loaney were always coming to see how we were. I staid with them most of the time. getting lonesome often for Charley and Bob. Poor old Bob was more feeble than ever now, t...</comment>
      <origin>15131966</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1438" sha1="94r7uveiiuua8b841udm9cd3qqw6hg3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|70|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Winter was advancing. There was much sick-
ness among the Mormon people. Food was scarce.
with no means to buy, and clothing thin for a
northern winter. Mother was called away from
home to care for them, and we children were often.
left at home with grandpa and father. Auntie and
Uncle Loaney were always coming to see how we
were. I staid with them most of the time. getting
lonesome often for Charley and Bob. Poor old
Bob was more feeble than ever now, the cold win-
ter bringing on rheumatism.

{{ph|BOB'S NEW FRIEND.}}

I remember one day Uncle Loaney coming in
and saying to father, &quot;Sure Mr. Whitney, why
don't you kill that old dog? He is good for nothing
and can't stand up any more.&quot; That was enough,
little brother and I began to cry and then poor old
grandpa, the tears rolled down his cheeks, and when
he could speak he said in his broken English, &quot;Oh
don't keel Bob, you keel Bob me die too. Me and
Bob good friends good many year. Oh no keel
Bob.&quot; Then father explained what a long time.
Bob had lived and been with grandpa and how he
had saved brother Toney's life the winter before.
Then how sorry Uncle Loaney was, saying. &quot;Yes let
poor Bob live as long as he can.&quot; After that many
were the little pails of milk sent to Bob.

{{ph|SUFFERING OF THE PEOPLE.}}

I remember a man came to our house one morn-
ing and two little boys were with him. Father had&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>94r7uveiiuua8b841udm9cd3qqw6hg3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/79</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847496</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131967</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:29:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;gone with Toney and Lewis out to chop wood a short distance from the house. The man came in with the children and asked to see father. Grandpa was so afraid to be alone with the Mormon he said, &quot;Me no want you keel me. Me give you everything in the house you no keel me.&quot; The man said, &quot;No, I don't want to hurt you. My children are hungry.&quot; Charley ran out to tell father to come, then the man explained how hungry his family were, having no bread and no mo...</comment>
      <origin>15131967</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1533" sha1="h3n0r2r9r0y7px1mw0ccco5ydv3xelz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|71|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;gone with Toney and Lewis out to chop wood a
short distance from the house. The man came in
with the children and asked to see father. Grandpa
was so afraid to be alone with the Mormon he said,
&quot;Me no want you keel me. Me give you everything
in the house you no keel me.&quot; The man said, &quot;No,
I don't want to hurt you. My children are hungry.&quot;
Charley ran out to tell father to come, then the man
explained how hungry his family were, having no
bread and no money to buy. Father gave them
something to eat, and soon the children were sit-
ting with Charley and me eating bread and butter.
Father gave flour and other things for the man to
carry home.

{{ph|CARING FOR THE SICK AND DYING.}}

Mother soon came home, telling of the want
and suffering among the people. The King had gone.
from the Island on the last boat, leaving them to
fare as best they could. They had come to the
Island too late to plant anything that season and
none of them knew how to fish or help themselves.
They suffered cold, hunger and death that winter
without complaint of their King. Their whole cry
was &quot;Oh, if our King were only here.&quot; There was
some one every day to our house and Aunt Loaney's.
The Mormons were in a starving condition. Father
gave to them until he feared we should be left with
nothing. Grandpa was afraid we children would
be left hungry, so he buried many things for us.
Mother and Auntie were always busy cooking and
carrying food to the sick and dying. Mrs. McKin-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>h3n0r2r9r0y7px1mw0ccco5ydv3xelz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/80</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847497</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131970</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:29:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;ley was just as busy at the Point helping the suffer- ing people all she could. There were several deaths in the winter and spring. After awhile father, grandpa and the boys put some nets through the ice, catching many fish for the hungry people. Our boys set hooks, showing the Mormon boys how to catch the fish to keep themselves from starving. Father and mother were so much among them they began to learn something about their strange belief, which was p...</comment>
      <origin>15131970</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1534" sha1="1qkjoz1oktogmz1l510tkihwt5n7jtr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|72|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ley was just as busy at the Point helping the suffer-
ing people all she could. There were several deaths
in the winter and spring. After awhile father,
grandpa and the boys put some nets through the ice,
catching many fish for the hungry people. Our
boys set hooks, showing the Mormon boys how to
catch the fish to keep themselves from starving.
Father and mother were so much among them they
began to learn something about their strange belief,
which was peculiar, their faith being all placed on
their leader, &quot;King James,&quot; as they often called.
Strang, always calling upon him to help them in
their trouble. Mother said to them, &quot;Why do you
call upon man to help you? Why don't you call
upon God and pray to him for help?&quot; They would
not listen, saying, &quot;Has not our King the revela-
tions revealed to him?&quot;

{{ph|RETURN OF SPRING AND COMING OF STRANG.}}

Spring had come. Our good old steamboat
&quot;Michigan&quot; had come to our harbor once more.
Strang also came. He was just as calm and serene
as usual, nothing seemed to disturb him. His wife
did not return until later in the season. He soon
came to our house and seemed very grateful to our
people for their kindness to his suffering people
during his absence. When mother told him how
much they had suffered he laughed, saying, &quot;Oh,
they must get used to Island life and expect to
have some hardships.&quot; Soon the boats came and
brought more Mormons. Those that came now
were more comfortable and seemed to have more&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1qkjoz1oktogmz1l510tkihwt5n7jtr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/81</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847498</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131972</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:30:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;means to help themselves with. Very soon they were at work clearing the land and making ready to put in crops of potatoes, corn and other vege- tables. There were several families who came from Texas, bringing their horses with them, with wagons and a few cows. Of course those who had plenty had to share with those who had little and give their every tenth part to the King's treasury, and very often giving more to help out extra ex- penses. Strang seemed...</comment>
      <origin>15131972</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1539" sha1="4x0lx4xhqxa4pnxvjd4k9fwweedgzth" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|73|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;means to help themselves with. Very soon they
were at work clearing the land and making ready
to put in crops of potatoes, corn and other vege-
tables. There were several families who came
from Texas, bringing their horses with them, with
wagons and a few cows. Of course those who had
plenty had to share with those who had little and
give their every tenth part to the King's treasury,
and very often giving more to help out extra ex-
penses. Strang seemed in excellent spirits and
went about from house to house, talking and en-
couraging his people, and father said no one would
think they had passed through such trouble so re-
cently. Soon it was planned to give a feast in
honor of the King's return, and great were the
preparations going on among the Mormons.

{{ph|JAMES CABLE SETTLING AT THE HEAD OF BEAVER ISLAND.}}

With the springtime also came many fishermen
to all of the islands, and many settled along the east
shore of Beaver Island as far up as the light house
at the head of the Island. A Mr. James Cable,
nephew of Mr. Alva Cable, had now come to locate.
at the head of Beaver Island, three miles north of
the light-house point. James Cable came from York
State. He was a bright, smart, enterprising young.
man, recently married to a most estimable young
lady of the same city where he lived. They came
with their little son Claude, a child of about two
years old. Here Mr. Cable invested considerable
money, put out a good dock, built a large dwelling&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4x0lx4xhqxa4pnxvjd4k9fwweedgzth</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/193</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847499</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131975</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:30:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131975</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1913" sha1="0eset7hisc20v553h5q9tryo4gp8ak0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|187|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;learning, his school, his property, his &quot;half-interest,&quot; Meriwether had said grandiloquently, in a bookshop. Peter could hear his father talking now.

&quot;A child of freedom&quot;—Peter was that but what had he made of it? He wondered what Isaiah in turn had written on the occasion of Meriwether's birth. His finger ran down the page, and found it, stopped.

There it was—&quot;Meriwether,&quot; the inscription read, &quot;by ''his'' fruits shall ye know—''me''.&quot;

At first Peter thought it was a mistake. Then gradually it dawned on him—his fine old grandfather, proud of his achievements, seeing his son as a monument to himself, seeing each Bye son doubtless as a monument to each Bye father. Poor Isaiah, perhaps happy Isaiah, for having died before he realized how worthless, how anything but monumental ''his'' son had really been, except as a failure. And now he, Peter, was following in that son's footsteps.

He remembered an old daguerreotype of his grandfather that he had seen at his great-uncle Peter's. The face, perfectly black, looked out from its faded red-plush frame with that immobile look of dignity which only black people can attain. &quot;I have made the most of myself,&quot; the proud old face seemed to say. &quot;My father was a slave, but I am a teacher, a leader of men. My son shall be a great healer and my son's son{{longdash}}&quot;

Peter put the open Bible carefully on the table and took out a cigarette. But he held it a long time unlighted.

So far as he could remember he had never had any desire to rise, &quot;to be somebody,&quot; as Isaiah, he rightly guessed, would have phrased it. He saw himself after his mother's death, a small placid boy, perfectly willing to stay out of school. Until he met Joanna. There was his term of service in the butcher-shop and himself again perfectly willing to be the butcher's assistant. Until Joanna's questioning had made him declare м&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0eset7hisc20v553h5q9tryo4gp8ak0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/82</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847500</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131976</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:30:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;and store, carrying on the wood business for many years, as well as having a fish market, employing several men getting out cord wood to supply the steamboats, as well as buying fish and furnishing provisions and all fishing supplies to fishermen. Mr. C. R. Wright, also another man from New York State, settled at Cable's dock and carried on a large cooper shop to supply the barrels for the fishermen, which became a great industry. Mr. Cable, with all the...</comment>
      <origin>15131976</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1551" sha1="qi0uhpqaw7khbyobwlfzd1infb9hq79" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|74|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and store, carrying on the wood business for many
years, as well as having a fish market, employing
several men getting out cord wood to supply the
steamboats, as well as buying fish and furnishing
provisions and all fishing supplies to fishermen.
Mr. C. R. Wright, also another man from New
York State, settled at Cable's dock and carried on
a large cooper shop to supply the barrels for the
fishermen, which became a great industry. Mr.
Cable, with all the rest of the Gentiles, was com-
pelled to leave Beaver Island in 1852, not feeling
safe to remain longer. After the death of King
Strang he returned, taking possession again of his
property, carrying on the business with success for
several years. Feeling his need of rest he closed
out his business and bought the property at Mack-
inac Island known as the &quot;Astor House.&quot;

Several of the men who had been with us the
year before now returned again and were boarding
with us. There were two brothers that came. Their
names were Thomas and Samuel Bennett. Thomas
was married when he came and they soon took
some land, built a house and put in some crops.
They also were in the fishing business. They never
were very friendly with the Mormons.

{{ph|STRANG'S REVELATIONS.}}

Soon after Strang's coming after that terrible.
winter of cold and suffering among his people, he
claimed to have had several new revelations which
must be told to his people. They all prepared for a
great feast showing their joy at their King's safe re-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qi0uhpqaw7khbyobwlfzd1infb9hq79</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/83</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847501</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131980</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:31:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;turn among them again. It would seem in his talk to them about his new revelations that he told them God was sending many Gentiles to be a help and a support to God's people, meaning themselves, the Latter Day Saints, and that it was right for his people to take whatever was necessary for them to have. That it was their privilege to take from the Gentiles. This was the first ume that the King had openly given any orders of that nature to his people. Whet...</comment>
      <origin>15131980</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1551" sha1="6lrt4xdf60qh2s1f0h0lvcb4n6oghjk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|75|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;turn among them again. It would seem in his talk
to them about his new revelations that he told
them God was sending many Gentiles to be a help
and a support to God's people, meaning themselves,
the Latter Day Saints, and that it was right for his
people to take whatever was necessary for them to
have. That it was their privilege to take from the
Gentiles. This was the first ume that the King
had openly given any orders of that nature to his
people. Whether any Gentile had ever been admit-
ted within the council room was never known, or
whether some of his own people told what had
been said, which many of us thought might be the
case, but the news soon spread, and from that time
no Gentile felt secure about his property. My fa-
ther once asked Strang if he had ever preached to
his people and given such orders. He answered he
had not, but their actions soon told what their in-
structions had been.

{{ph|ROBBING THE GENTILES.}}

His people soon began to take from the Gentiles
whatever they could get. Up to this time the feel-
ing between the Mormons and Gentiles had been
very friendly, the fishermen being glad to have the
Island settled with a good peaceful people as they
had until now seemed to be. Mr. Peter McKinley
at the Point was now suffering considerable losses
by the Mormons taking his cattle and butchering
them, also other goods which they were taking. A
young man, or boy, Wheelock by name, told or gave.
information about the butchering of the cattle. He&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6lrt4xdf60qh2s1f0h0lvcb4n6oghjk</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/84</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847502</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131983</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:32:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;being a Mormon boy employed by Mr. McKinley, had to suffer the penalty by receiving fifty stripes with the &quot;blue beaches,&quot; that being one kind of their punishments. We had never heard before of the Mormons doing anything of this kind to their people. The boy had told the truth and had to suffer the cruel whipping.  {{ph|WHIPPING OF THOMAS BEDFORD.}}  A man by the name of Thomas Bedford was employed by Mr. Peter McKinley. He also gave some information abo...</comment>
      <origin>15131983</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1375" sha1="r156ocvnf2gg0p4ifh6cuqw437pzs17" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|76|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;being a Mormon boy employed by Mr. McKinley,
had to suffer the penalty by receiving fifty stripes
with the &quot;blue beaches,&quot; that being one kind of
their punishments. We had never heard before of
the Mormons doing anything of this kind to their
people. The boy had told the truth and had to
suffer the cruel whipping.

{{ph|WHIPPING OF THOMAS BEDFORD.}}

A man by the name of Thomas Bedford was
employed by Mr. Peter McKinley. He also gave
some information about the stealing of property by
the Mormons, and he also received seventy-five of
the cruel stripes with the &quot;blue beaches.&quot; For this
awful treatment Mr. Bedford swore revenge. The
Mormons never proved that Mr. Bedford had
given any information about their stealing goods
from Mr. McKinley, but just concluded he had and
gave him the awful punishment. So Bedford bided
his time for revenge.

Strang had now a great number around him
who sought his favor and were ever ready to do
his bidding and many times did things he did not.
sanction. There were some good, kind, peaceable
people that knew nothing about the working of the
inner circle that surrounded the king. There was
one apostle that aimed to take the King's place and
be ruler himself. He was a cruel and crafty man.
He took charge of all things among the people in
Strang's absence.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>r156ocvnf2gg0p4ifh6cuqw437pzs17</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/194</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847503</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131984</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:32:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15131984</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1520" sha1="lze4zhisovfz7kgmerrafxngx7s1c0q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|188|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;for surgery. Once in college his whole impulse had been to get away from it all, not because he hadn't liked the work; he adored it, was fascinated by it. But the obstacles, prejudice, his very real dislike for white people, his poverty, all or any of these had seemed to him sufficient cause for dropping his studies and becoming a musician. Not an artist, but an entertainer, a player in what might be termed &quot;a strolling orchestra,&quot; picking up jobs, receiving tips, going down in the servants' dining room for meals. And when Joanna had objected, he thought she was &quot;funny,&quot; &quot;bossy.&quot;

And as soon as he had broken with her, he had given up striving altogether. He had been nothing without Joanna. He wondered humbly if she had seen something in him which he had not recognized in himself.

How different they had been! After all, Joanna, though she had not had to contend with poverty, had had as hard a fight as he. &quot;She'd have been on the stage long ago if she'd been white,&quot; he murmured. &quot;And see how she takes it!&quot;

Well, he would show her and Isaiah, yes, and Mrs. Lea, too, that there was something to him. But chiefly Joanna. Some day he'd go to her and say, &quot;Joanna, what I am, you made me.&quot;

His ladylady called up to him:

&quot;Telephone for you, Mr. Bye.&quot;

He went downstairs, took down the receiver.

&quot;Hello, this is Mr. Bye, yes, this is Peter. Who's this speaking, please?{{nbsp}}{{. . .}}

&quot;Oh—oh, yes, of course. Why—why, Maggie!&quot;

He had forgotten all about her!&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lze4zhisovfz7kgmerrafxngx7s1c0q</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/85</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847504</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131985</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:33:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ph|BUILDING TEMPLE AND PRINTING OFFICE.}}  The Mormons were now building a temple after the pattern of the one at Kirtland, Ohio, and I be- lieve of the same size. They had already built a saw mill so they could manufacture their own lumber. They had built a large building made of logs hewn on both sides. This was fitted up as a printing office and Strang edited a paper called the &quot;Northern Islander.&quot; The printing office still re- mains and was turned...</comment>
      <origin>15131985</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1587" sha1="so4qgnzmrle2w6vv5ya3ipb0x23i61x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|77|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|BUILDING TEMPLE AND PRINTING OFFICE.}}

The Mormons were now building a temple after
the pattern of the one at Kirtland, Ohio, and I be-
lieve of the same size. They had already built a
saw mill so they could manufacture their own
lumber. They had built a large building made of
logs hewn on both sides. This was fitted up as a
printing office and Strang edited a paper called the
&quot;Northern Islander.&quot; The printing office still re-
mains and was turned into a hotel and is known as
the Gibson House of St. James. The Mormons
were a very busy people. Those that were improv-
ing their farms and building their homes had noth-
ing to do, as a rule, with the making of Strang's
laws. He had his council men, his twelve apostles,
besides elders under the apostles, members of the
households of twelve. They did the voting and had
all to do with making the laws, that is the laws that
governed the conduct of their people. Strang had
the revelations and the council of twelve voted it.
a law. And they had the power to enforce the law
and punish any who disobeyed. So far the King
had preached against polygamy and said that it
should not be allowed, although there were a num-
ber of Mormons that had a number of wives.
apiece. Strang allowed it to be so, as he said they
had practiced the law according to Joseph Smith's
doctrine, and having several wives apiece he told
them they might keep them, but that no more should
be taken. So the men who had more than one wife
kept them. Strang had many people now to control,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>so4qgnzmrle2w6vv5ya3ipb0x23i61x</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/86</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847505</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131988</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:33:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;every boat during the summer season brought more. converts, as he had several apostles traveling con- stantly about the country making new converts to their faith. Strang instructed them to make all things to appear at its best, so the people were made. to believe the Island was truly the &quot;promised land.&quot;  {{ph|STRANG'S REVELATION OF POLYGAMY.}}  Now the King had a new revelation that poly- gamy must be practiced. When he made it known to his people it g...</comment>
      <origin>15131988</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1509" sha1="rni99ay37b12rfuszeilop9l2l1rpzo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|78|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;every boat during the summer season brought more.
converts, as he had several apostles traveling con-
stantly about the country making new converts to
their faith. Strang instructed them to make all
things to appear at its best, so the people were made.
to believe the Island was truly the &quot;promised land.&quot;

{{ph|STRANG'S REVELATION OF POLYGAMY.}}

Now the King had a new revelation that poly-
gamy must be practiced. When he made it known
to his people it gave them a great shock, as their
minds had been made up that this was not to be.
Strang very soon obeyed the &quot;Divine Command&quot; by
taking a spiritual wife, or as the Mormons called it,
&quot;being sealed.&quot; Mrs. Strang, his wife, packed her
clothing and taking her three children with her, left
the Island, never coming back to live with him
again. Strang was absent when she left, so she met
with no opposition. She came back to the Island
twice during his absence, gathering the people to-
gether in the temple, talking and pointing out to
them the error of practicing such a doctrine, and
both times she came she burned the robes which the
King wore when preaching in the temple. Mrs.
Mary Strang was greatly loved by all his people
that knew her. Of course the King was not pleased
with the interference of Mrs. Strang.

{{ph|&quot;CHARLES DOUGLAS.&quot;}}

The King now took one of his young wives, had
her dressed in man's apparel and travel about with
him seeking after more converts. The name he&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rni99ay37b12rfuszeilop9l2l1rpzo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/87</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847506</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131990</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:34:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;gave her was &quot;Charles Douglas.&quot; He made a great joke of this, and boasted &quot;Charles&quot; was the best worker he ever had. If Strang was magnetic &quot;Charles Douglas&quot; was irresistible. She was a beautiful woman and extremely fine looking when dressed as &quot;Charles Douglas.&quot; I saw Strang and &quot;Douglas&quot; once together. One of the Mormon apostles was living neighbor to us. Mother had sent me on an errand to their house. Strang and his companion came there to dinner. Bot...</comment>
      <origin>15131990</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1508" sha1="87s4o99ww3wkwc7egsy3yt7fud4u52b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|79|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;gave her was &quot;Charles Douglas.&quot; He made a great
joke of this, and boasted &quot;Charles&quot; was the best
worker he ever had. If Strang was magnetic
&quot;Charles Douglas&quot; was irresistible. She was a
beautiful woman and extremely fine looking when
dressed as &quot;Charles Douglas.&quot; I saw Strang and
&quot;Douglas&quot; once together. One of the Mormon
apostles was living neighbor to us. Mother had
sent me on an errand to their house. Strang and
his companion came there to dinner. Both were
dressed in plain black suits, wearing high silk hats,
which was the fashion. Both were smiling and
talking very pleasantly together. Of course I sup-
posed it was a young man with Strang, but the
apostle's wife told mother about it later.

{{ph|A MAN WITH SEVERAL WIVES.}}

There was one family living at the harbor set-
tlement who kept a boarding house. This man
had four wives. Gentiles as well as Mormons
boarded with him, and many were the jokes the
man had about his wives, saying he had no need
of hired girls, as he had wives enough to do his
work. My father was often there to take his
meals, and once I remember mother was with him
and took me. One of the wives was a French
woman. Mother talked with her in her own lan-
guage and she said she was tired of that life. She
not being a favorite wife had too much work to do.
She had four small children. When the other
women saw her talking to mother in French they
seemed not to like it, thinking perhaps she was talk-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>87s4o99ww3wkwc7egsy3yt7fud4u52b</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/88</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847507</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131994</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:35:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;ing about them. As soon as they came into the room the French woman began to sing as though she was very happy. At another time, when she was sick and my mother was taking care of her, she said, &quot;Only for the love I have for my children I would take poison.&quot; Many women that we met. were very cheerful and pleasant, while there were many more with very sad faces and manner. When our people first lived neighbors to the Mormons they were very friendly and ta...</comment>
      <origin>15131994</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1548" sha1="n7f1gk9f1ns8pfws7i2dtk627jdwa3r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|80|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ing about them. As soon as they came into the
room the French woman began to sing as though
she was very happy. At another time, when she
was sick and my mother was taking care of her, she
said, &quot;Only for the love I have for my children I
would take poison.&quot; Many women that we met.
were very cheerful and pleasant, while there were
many more with very sad faces and manner. When
our people first lived neighbors to the Mormons
they were very friendly and talked about their work.
As soon as they began to take things from us they
became silent and did not appear to care to meet
us any more. There were a few who never changed
toward us and proved friends to the last, although
they had to appear sometimes to be our enemies.

{{ph|BOB'S DEATH.}}

One morning I missed Bob. I always ran to see
him when I first got up. Sometimes it was very
hard for Bob to walk, and when the warm spring
sunshine came our boys and grandpa would put Bob
in a nice place to lay. Now I could not find him, and
when I saw mother I saw that she had been weep-
ing and was now silent when I asked her about Bob.
I ran over to Auntie Loaney's. There was grandpa.
He was sobbing as if his heart would break and our
boys were trying to comfort him by telling him
Bob had not suffered a moment. Then I realized,
Bob, my old friend, was dead, and I sobbed, &quot;Oh,
boys, what made you kill Bob?&quot; Then they tried to
explain. I could not listen. I could not understand
why it should be done. Then Auntie and Uncle&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>n7f1gk9f1ns8pfws7i2dtk627jdwa3r</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/91</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847508</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131997</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:36:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;Loaney said, &quot;Now dear children do not grieve, poor old Bob was too old to live any longer. It is best his sufferings are over.&quot; We were all sad over the faithful dog's death. It was several weeks be- fore grandpa and I could feel it was for the best. We buried him where the birds sang first in the spring.  Father now thought it best to move to the head of the island, his work being there with Mr. Cable. We were beginning to fear the Mormons, as they had...</comment>
      <origin>15131997</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1535" sha1="3bf7pop3jk6jisap331aauxe4ows4qc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|81|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Loaney said, &quot;Now dear children do not grieve,
poor old Bob was too old to live any longer. It is
best his sufferings are over.&quot; We were all sad over
the faithful dog's death. It was several weeks be-
fore grandpa and I could feel it was for the best.
We buried him where the birds sang first in the
spring.

Father now thought it best to move to the head
of the island, his work being there with Mr. Cable.
We were beginning to fear the Mormons, as they
had greatly changed toward us. In their travels
up and down the island they most always stopped
at our house. And sometimes there would be five
or six, and very often they would ask for a meal,
which we never refused to give them. Very often
they remained all night, and then they were always
sure to let us see the big knives they carried hang-
ing to the belt they wore. Towards the last of our
stay they carried a gun with them as well. When
they came to our doors they never rapped, but
simply walked in and helped themselves to a chair.
We were told by some of their own people who
were disgusted with Strang's doctrine that these
men were just obeying the King's commands. He
was trying to make all the Gentile people know the
Mormons were to have their own way on the island.
Just as fast as the Gentiles moved away from the
Mormon settlement the Mormons followed and built
their homes near to them. The Bennett brothers
had already left their home at the harbor and gone.
to the Gentile settlement.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3bf7pop3jk6jisap331aauxe4ows4qc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/92</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847509</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15131999</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:37:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ph|THE COUNTY SEAT OF SAINT JAMES.}}  Strang had now got the county organized, being attached to Mackinac county; later it was changed to Manitou county. The county seat and post office was at the harbor, named in honor of the King &quot;Saint James.&quot; The island was divided into three districts and townships. The town at the harbor. was named in honor of the Indian Chief at Garden Island, town of &quot;Peain.&quot; The district at the head. of the Island was called G...</comment>
      <origin>15131999</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1545" sha1="4u2rkk1vicwwm6uh441vtk6mbne1tjn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|82|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|THE COUNTY SEAT OF SAINT JAMES.}}

Strang had now got the county organized, being
attached to Mackinac county; later it was changed
to Manitou county. The county seat and post office
was at the harbor, named in honor of the King
&quot;Saint James.&quot; The island was divided into three
districts and townships. The town at the harbor.
was named in honor of the Indian Chief at Garden
Island, town of &quot;Peain.&quot; The district at the head.
of the Island was called Gallilee, the center, Troy,
the lower. Enoch. Strang was always very kind to
the Indians, trying hard to have the Chief &quot;Peain&quot;
give him one of his handsome daughters for a wife,
which the Chief refused to do. Strang now estab-
lished a school for the Indians at his own expense,
sent a young Mormon over to Garden Island,
where he taught school for three years. At a later
date the government appointed teachers and gave
many years of schools to the 'Indians, my husband
being one of the teachers appointed. Chief &quot;Peain&quot;
ruled his tribe with great kindness and firmness. He
was a man of noble appearance. Their tribe was the
Ottawas. Myself and husband remained on their
island as teachers two years, from '62 to '64. Chief
&quot;Peain&quot; was always the friend of the Chemokamon
(white man.)

{{ph|MOUNT PISGAH AND INLAND LAKES.}}

On Beaver Island there are six beautiful little
lakes. Lakes Genessarett, Fox Lake, Green Lake.
These lakes are near the head of the Island, while
the other three, Font, Long and Round Lakes, are&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4u2rkk1vicwwm6uh441vtk6mbne1tjn</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/93</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847510</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132001</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:37:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;near the harbor. Font Lake is where the Mormons baptized their people, also held their yearly feasts. It is a pretty spot with a long narrow point reaching out into the Lake. This lovely lake is about half a mile distant from the harbor. Long Lake is just a short distance beyond. That, too, is a beautiful spot. Its high land on one side is covered with heavy hardwood timber and great quantities of fish are in Long Lake. Just a short distance from Long La...</comment>
      <origin>15132001</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1622" sha1="qvqrd9muqbos4x1csuz9oui39oy6hv7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|83|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;near the harbor. Font Lake is where the Mormons
baptized their people, also held their yearly feasts.
It is a pretty spot with a long narrow point reaching
out into the Lake. This lovely lake is about half a
mile distant from the harbor. Long Lake is just a
short distance beyond. That, too, is a beautiful
spot. Its high land on one side is covered with
heavy hardwood timber and great quantities of fish
are in Long Lake. Just a short distance from Long
Lake is &quot;Mount Pisgah,&quot; a high sand mountain.
One can look down into the harbor from its top.
That, too, has beautiful scenery all about it.

The group of islands near Beaver Island can be
seen from &quot;Mount Pisgah.&quot; High Island, Trout
Island, Squaw Island, which now has a fine light-
house erected upon it. Rabbit Island and Garden
Island, with Hog Island off nine miles to the east.
All these Islands show from this mountain, and on
a clear day it is a beautiful sight to look upon. Lake.
Michigan, with its dark blue waters, with so many
pretty islands covered with green trees, and the
white pebbly and sandy beaches, where the white sea
gulls are constantly soaring about or resting upon.
the water. The island was very beautiful when the
Mormons first went there. At that time no timber
had been cut off. One can appreciate its beauty only
by going out into its center and among its pretty
lakes. When my people first came there to live there
were still traces left of the &quot;Beaver dams&quot; where the
busy beavers had made their homes about the little
lakes. This is why the island was named &quot;Beaver&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qvqrd9muqbos4x1csuz9oui39oy6hv7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/94</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847511</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132003</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:38:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;Island,&quot; and sometimes the whole group comes under the one name of the &quot;Beaver Islands.&quot;  {{ph|WILD ANIMALS AND BIRDS.}}  At one time while I lived on the island there were several deer supposed to have come across the ice from the north shore. There was an abun- dance of wild duck, pigeons, partridges and wild. birds of many different kinds. Foxes were plenti- ful, both grey and red, and once and a while a black fox. Lynx and wild cats were seen, and on...</comment>
      <origin>15132003</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1582" sha1="hbfwjxrl5scq902rlwa4th3z2j31ip7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|84|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Island,&quot; and sometimes the whole group comes
under the one name of the &quot;Beaver Islands.&quot;

{{ph|WILD ANIMALS AND BIRDS.}}

At one time while I lived on the island there
were several deer supposed to have come across
the ice from the north shore. There was an abun-
dance of wild duck, pigeons, partridges and wild.
birds of many different kinds. Foxes were plenti-
ful, both grey and red, and once and a while a black
fox. Lynx and wild cats were seen, and one old
hunter declared he heard a &quot;panther.&quot; These wild
animals traveled many times across the ice in win-
ter time from the north shore, and very often the
foxes crossed from one island to another in the
winter. At this date there are no wild animals, un-
less there might be some wild cats. I saw a wild
cat that was shot there in 1882. One great reason.
that made the island so desirable a place to live at
that time was its splendid fishing grounds. No one
need to be without money in those days. Fish al-
ways brought a good price, and at the time of our
Civil war brought a very high price. There were
many large cooper shops run. These furnished bar-
rels to the fishermen to pack and salt their fish in.
The cooper trade was followed by a great many
men. They came to the island from the cities to
work through the summer season, then going home.
again for the winter. The climate being so pure.
many recovered their health that had lost it. At the
present time the barrel trade is a thing of the past.
Fish are packed in ice and shipped to the market&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hbfwjxrl5scq902rlwa4th3z2j31ip7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/95</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847512</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132005</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:38:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;fresh. Changes have come to Beaver Island as well as everywhere else. Still it will always be &quot;Beaver Island.&quot;  {{ph|MRS. BENNETT STARTING TO CROSS THE LAKE.}}  Thomas Bennett was living near to Cable's dock. There were several families at the little settlement. Some came from Canada, others were summer peo- ple going home in the fall. Mrs. Bennett and her three children were going on a visit across the lake. Her people lived at Cross Village. Her father...</comment>
      <origin>15132005</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1572" sha1="awxsj5vp11is74wnpbkg4qoyxejbr7d" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|85|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;fresh. Changes have come to Beaver Island as well
as everywhere else. Still it will always be &quot;Beaver
Island.&quot;

{{ph|MRS. BENNETT STARTING TO CROSS THE LAKE.}}

Thomas Bennett was living near to Cable's dock.
There were several families at the little settlement.
Some came from Canada, others were summer peo-
ple going home in the fall. Mrs. Bennett and her
three children were going on a visit across the lake.
Her people lived at Cross Village. Her father and
mother came with their own boat to take her with
them. I remember so well the morning she left
us. We all felt sorry to see her go. Mr. Bennett
was a fond father and kind husband. His wife and
children were everything to him. There were three
little girls, the eldest five, the next three years, and
the baby six months. Preparations were made the
evening before for an early start. Father, mother
and I went to the beach to see them off. It was
hard for Mr. Bennett to let them go. He kissed his
children many times, then his wife, and he said,
&quot;Isabel, how can I let you go. Come back to the
house, you must not go.&quot; She felt very sad, saying.
&quot;Yes, Thomas, I know you will miss us, and I will
not stay so long as I was going to. I will come back
in a week.&quot; Good-bys were said, little hands waved
and the boat went sailing out over the rippling
waves. Mrs. Bennett held the baby high in her
arms for her papa to see, little white handkerchiefs
were fluttered as far as we could see them. Some-
how we all felt sad. Mr. Bennett walked on the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>awxsj5vp11is74wnpbkg4qoyxejbr7d</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/96</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847513</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132006</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:39:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;shore saying, &quot;Oh, my wife, my children. Why did I let them go? I shall never see them more.&quot; We tried to comfort him, but we could not. As the darkness came on and the wind blew fiercer our hearts grew heavy. Mr. Bennett walked all night on the shore and my father with him. I lay in my bed listening to the sound of the sullen roar of the sea as the breakers dashed high on the beach. At times it seemed the waves would never stop their rolling until they...</comment>
      <origin>15132006</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1631" sha1="q67v20of26rtuqz5jvt6o81zgo5o56w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|86|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;shore saying, &quot;Oh, my wife, my children. Why did
I let them go? I shall never see them more.&quot; We
tried to comfort him, but we could not. As the
darkness came on and the wind blew fiercer our
hearts grew heavy. Mr. Bennett walked all night
on the shore and my father with him. I lay in my
bed listening to the sound of the sullen roar of the
sea as the breakers dashed high on the beach. At
times it seemed the waves would never stop their
rolling until they swept us away. They came so
near our door once or twice I went to the window
to look out, and nothing but a sheet of white foam
could be seen. At times it was like the sound of
distant thunder as the waves broke and washed
about us. All the next day the sky was dark, the
waves had a moaning, sobbing sound that was very
sad to hear. We waited two days, then the
messengers came over from Cross Village. Two
Indians were sent with a letter from the Catholic
priest telling all he could of the sad accident.

Early the next morning after the storm some
Indians at Cross Village went to the beach to see if
their canoes were all secure. The first object they
saw was the boat of their neighbor drifting along
the shore. No one was to be seen in the boat. They
waited until the boat came in reach so they could
pull it out from the breakers that still ran high.
The boat was almost full of water. They took the
water out as soon as possible, and in among the
quilts lay little three-year-old Rebecca. She still
breathed, her body was warm. The Indians in their
excitement delayed taking the child to the house,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>q67v20of26rtuqz5jvt6o81zgo5o56w</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/97</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847514</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132008</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:39:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;thinking there might be more bodies washed upon the shore. They carried the child to the good. priest's house and everything that human power could do was done to save the child, but it was too. late, &quot;Baby Rebecca had gone to join the angels.&quot;  Oh the sadness, it was hard. It seemed some- times Mr. Bennett could not survive the shock. None of the other bodies were ever recovered. Mrs. Bennett was a very beautiful woman with a sweet, loving disposition....</comment>
      <origin>15132008</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1535" sha1="p5l0pyso5030ek6lxcie5y6aywg2mao" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|87|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;thinking there might be more bodies washed upon
the shore. They carried the child to the good.
priest's house and everything that human power
could do was done to save the child, but it was too.
late, &quot;Baby Rebecca had gone to join the angels.&quot;

Oh the sadness, it was hard. It seemed some-
times Mr. Bennett could not survive the shock.
None of the other bodies were ever recovered. Mrs.
Bennett was a very beautiful woman with a sweet,
loving disposition.

{{ph|THE KING'S RESIDENCE.}}

About this time King Strang decided to build.
a residence for himself. He made the plans and
called it the &quot;King's Cottage.&quot; The King came to
our house asking my father to go to the harbor and
help build his house. He wanted him to do the
framing, and father, not being very busy, and not
liking to refuse the King, went. Father was gone
about six weeks, coming home often to see how we
were at home. He boarded at the house where there
were four wives. The King's Cottage was built
very strong. A story and a half high with a porch
across the front. The wide hall went right through
the center, with massive strong doors at front and
back, and with an open stairway. On each side of
the hall was a large room, two bedrooms, hall and
closets upstairs. A white picket fence about the
yard with a nice garden spot on the hillside. It
was a pleasant, cosey home, and the location was
most beautiful, looking out on the harbor and Lake
Michigan. The house was in the midst of a lovely&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>p5l0pyso5030ek6lxcie5y6aywg2mao</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/98</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847515</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132011</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:40:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;grove of forest trees, maple, beach, oak and scatter- ing evergreens. The cottage was built under the small hill or terrace on a level flat and just a short distance from the docks and stores. When we ar- rived after the Mormons had left the island the house was in good repair. My father and mother occupied it two years, being the first ones to live in it after Strang's death. Strang had started a large addition to the cottage before he died, which was m...</comment>
      <origin>15132011</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1596" sha1="c45w7zrzcrf81iacyf67p1gauhl4vut" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|88|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;grove of forest trees, maple, beach, oak and scatter-
ing evergreens. The cottage was built under the
small hill or terrace on a level flat and just a short
distance from the docks and stores. When we ar-
rived after the Mormons had left the island the
house was in good repair. My father and mother
occupied it two years, being the first ones to
live in it after Strang's death. Strang had started
a large addition to the cottage before he died, which
was much larger than the cottage itself. The ad-
dition was put at the back of the main building,
made of logs hewed on both sides, containing
eight rooms. But like the cottage itself, has gone
to decay. Strang remarked, &quot;I am getting so many
wives I have to enlarge my house.&quot;

While father was there Ştrang invited him to
dinner one day in his own home, as he said he
wanted him to see how a man could get along with
several wives. My father went and had a fine din-
ner, and Strang was very gay, entertained with
many jokes and stories. The four wives had very
little to say, but were smiling and pleasant and
seemed very anxious to please the King.

{{ph|THE KING'S JOKES.}}

Strang joked about soon adding some more.
wives and soon starting a school for his own child-
ren, at which they all laughed. He talked continu-
ally, trying to have them all know that he was the
king and having authority to rule his subjects as he
pleased. When dinner was ended they went to the
new cottage, Strang and the favorite wife, the other
three women remained at home. Father said none&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>c45w7zrzcrf81iacyf67p1gauhl4vut</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/99</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847516</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132012</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:41:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;of the other women ever came with Strang to see how the work progressed, only this one that he most always called &quot;Charles.&quot; Father said this young woman was very pleasant and greatly pleased with the house. Strang seemed very affectionate to this wife. Every pleasant day they were walking about together. When father came home he said he was glad to be home again. They were all very kind to him, but it seemed terrible to see people live in that way. He t...</comment>
      <origin>15132012</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1534" sha1="rexzzdxnoq20b224qo9jo5lri4lchr2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|89|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of the other women ever came with Strang to see
how the work progressed, only this one that he
most always called &quot;Charles.&quot; Father said this young
woman was very pleasant and greatly pleased with
the house. Strang seemed very affectionate to this
wife. Every pleasant day they were walking about
together. When father came home he said he was
glad to be home again. They were all very kind
to him, but it seemed terrible to see people live in
that way. He told mother the women had sad faces
when people saw them at their work. When
Strang came again he said to mother, &quot;I am going to
make a Mormon of your husband and what will you
do when he brings home more wives?&quot; Mother said.
&quot;I hope that will never happen, and if it should the
women that come into my home will not have a
happy time.&quot; Strang looked at her saying, &quot;We
could find a way to make everything agreeable in
a very short time.&quot; Then he laughed, saying, &quot;If
you were a Mormon, Mrs. Whitney, you would
think differently about these things. We believe in
this doctrine and that is why we are happy.&quot; Mo-
ther said to him, &quot;Now you can't make me believe
you are as happy as you want us to think you are.&quot;
He said no more and appeared thoughtful. After
he was gone mother said to father, &quot;Do take us
away from this island. I am afraid of that man.
No one knows what he may do yet.&quot;

{{ph|THE KING'S LAWS.}}

The King was very particular about the appear-
ance of his peoples' homes. The houses were built.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rexzzdxnoq20b224qo9jo5lri4lchr2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>NLRB v. Boeing Co./Opinion of the Court</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847517</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132014</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:41:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JoeSolo22</username>
        <id>3028097</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title = [[../]]  | author = William Rehnquist  | section = Opinion of the Court  | previous =   | next =   | year = 1973  | portal = Supreme Court of the United States  | wikipedia =   | notes =  }}  {{USSCcase2     |dissent_author1 = Burger     |dissent_author2 = Douglas     }} &lt;div class='courtopinion'&gt; '''[p68]''' MR. JUSTICE REHNQUIST delivered the opinion of the Court.   The question presented in this case is whether the National Labor Relations Board is...&quot;</comment>
      <origin>15132014</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="23569" sha1="9ef3aka8tyk2uv7u2vbobncoz7hakvj" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title = [[../]]
 | author = William Rehnquist
 | section = Opinion of the Court
 | previous = 
 | next = 
 | year = 1973
 | portal = Supreme Court of the United States
 | wikipedia = 
 | notes = 
}}
 {{USSCcase2
    |dissent_author1 = Burger
    |dissent_author2 = Douglas
    }}
&lt;div class='courtopinion'&gt;
'''[p68]''' MR. JUSTICE REHNQUIST delivered the opinion of the Court.


The question presented in this case is whether the National Labor Relations Board is required by § 8 (b)(1)(A) of the [[United States Code/Title 29/Chapter 7/Subchapter II|National Labor Relations Act]]&lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;/&gt; to inquire into the reasonableness of a disciplinary fine imposed by a union upon a member when the Board exercises its admitted authority under that section to determine whether the fine otherwise constitutes an unfair labor practice. The Board held that the validity of union fines under the Act does not depend on their being reasonable in amount. ''Booster Lodge No. 405'', 185 N.L.R.B. 380, 383 n. 16, 75 L.R.R.M. 1004, 1007 n. 16 (1970). On petition for judicial review of this determination, the Court of Appeals held that an unreasonably large fine is coercive and restraining within the meaning of § 8 (b)(1)(A), and remanded the case to the Board with directions to consider &quot;questions relating to the reasonableness of the fines imposed by the Union.&quot; ''Booster Lodge No. 405, International Association of Machinists v. NLRB'', 148 U.S. App. D.C. 119, 137, 459 F.2d 1143, 1161 (1972). We granted certiorari, 409 U.S. 1074 (1972), and now reverse the judgment below.

From May 16, 1963, through September 15, 1965, Booster Lodge No. 405, International Association of Machinists &amp; Aerospace Workers, AFL-CIO (the Union), and the Boeing Co. (the Company) were parties to a collective-bargaining agreement. Upon expiration of this agreement the Union called a lawful economic strike at the Company's '''[p69]''' Michoud plant in New Orleans and at other locations. As of October 2, 1965, the parties signed a new collective-bargaining agreement and the strikers thereafter returned to work. Both agreements contained maintenance-of-membership clauses that required Union members to retain their membership during the contract term. New employees were required to notify the Union and the Company within 40 days of accepting employment if they elected not to join the Union.

During the 18-day strike some 143 employees out of 1,900 production and maintenance employees in the bargaining unit at the Michoud plant crossed the picket line and returned to work. All of these employees were Union members at the time the strike began, although some of them tendered their resignations either before or after crossing the picket lines.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref2&quot;/&gt; In late October or early November 1965 the Union notified these employees that charges had been preferred against them for violating the International Union's constitution. The constitution provides penalties for the &quot;improper conduct of a member,&quot; which term includes &quot;[a]ccepting employment... in an establishment where a strike... exists.&quot; In accordance with appropriate union procedures, including notice and opportunity for a hearing, all strikebreakers were found guilty, fined $450, and barred from holding Union office for a period of five years.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref3&quot;/&gt; While '''[p70]''' some of the fines were reduced and some partial payments were received by the Union, no member paid the full $450.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref4&quot;/&gt; After warning members to pay their fines or face the consequences, the Union filed suits in state court against nine individual employees to collect the fines. None of the suits has been finally adjudicated.

In February 1966 the Company filed a charge with the Labor Board alleging that the attempted court enforcement of the fines violated § 8 (b)(1)(A) of the National Labor Relations Act. The allegations were basically twofold: first, that the Union committed an unfair labor practice by fining employees who had resigned from the Union, an issue that we consider in the companion case, ''Machinists &amp; Aerospace Workers v. NLRB, post'', [[412 U.S. 84|p. 84]]; and, second, that as to the members who were otherwise validly fined, the fines were unreasonable in amount. Thereafter the Board's General Counsel issued a complaint and the case was heard by a Trial Examiner. With respect to the second issue, the Trial Examiner determined that the fines were impermissible excessive, but the Board refused to adopt his conclusion. It relied on a case decided the same day, ''Machinists, Local Lodge 504 (Arrow Development Co.)'', 185 N.L.R.B. 365, 75 L.R.R.M. 1008 (1970), reversed ''sub nom. O'Reilly v. NLRB'', 472 F.2d 426 (CA9 1972), in which it held that Congress did not intend to give the Board authority to regulate the size of union fines or to establish standards with respect to a fine's reasonableness.

'''[p71]''' Section 8 (b)(1)(A) of the Act provides, in pertinent part, that it shall be an unfair labor practice for a labor organization &quot;to restrain or coerce (A) employees in the exercise of the rights guaranteed in section 7 of this title.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref5&quot;/&gt; Among the § 7 rights guaranteed to employees is the right to refrain from any of the concerted activities described in that section.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref6&quot;/&gt; We have previously held that § 8 (b)(1)(A) was not intended to give the Board power to regulate internal union affairs, including the imposition of disciplinary fines, with their consequent court enforcement, against members who violate the unions' constitutions and bylaws. ''NLRB v. Allis-Chalmers Mfg. Co.'', [[388 U.S. 175]] (1967); ''Scofield v. NLRB'', '''[p72]''' [[394 U.S. 423]] (1969). In ''Allis-Chalmers'' we held that court enforcement of fines ranging from $20 to $100 for crossing picket lines did not &quot;restrain or coerce&quot; employees within the meaning of the Act. And in ''Scofield'' we held that the union did not violate the Act in imposing fines of $50 and $100 on members for violating a union rule relating to production ceilings.

In deciding these cases, the Court several times referred to the unions' imposition of &quot;reasonable&quot; fines. In particular, the ''Scofield'' Court concluded &quot;that the union rule is valid and that its enforcement by ''reasonable'' fines does not constitute the restraint or coercion proscribed by § 8 (b)(1)(A).&quot; 394 U.S., at 436 (emphasis added). The Company contends, not illogically, that the Court's use of the adjective &quot;reasonable&quot; was intended to suggest to the Board that an unreasonable fine would amount to an unfair labor practice.

This interpretation, however, permissible as it may be, is only dicta, since in both ''Allis-Chalmers'' and in ''Scofield'' the reasonableness of the fines was assumed. 388 U.S., at 192-193, n. 30; 394 U.S., at 430.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref7&quot;/&gt; Being squarely presented with the issue in this case, we recede from the implications of the dicta in these earlier cases. While '''[p73]''' &quot;unreasonable&quot; fines may be more coercive than &quot;reasonable&quot; fines, all fines are coercive to a greater or lesser degree. The underlying basis for the holdings of ''Allis-Chalmers'' and ''Scofield'' was not that reasonable fines were noncoercive under the language of § 8 (b)(1)(A) of the Act, but was instead that those provisions were not intended by Congress to apply to the imposition by the union of fines not affecting the employer-employee relationship and not otherwise prohibited by the Act. The reason for this determination, in turn, was that Congress had not intended by enacting this section to regulate the internal affairs of unions to the extent that would be required in order to base unfair labor practice charges on the levying of such fines.

The Court's examination of the legislative history of this provision in ''Allis-Chalmers'' led to the conclusion that:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;What legislative materials there are dealing with § 8 (b)(1)(A) contain not a single word referring to the application of its prohibitions to traditional internal union discipline in general, or disciplinary fines in particular. On the contrary there are a number of assurances by its sponsors that ''the section was not meant to regulate the internal affairs of unions.''&quot; 388 U.S., at 185-186 (emphasis added).&lt;ref name=&quot;ref8&quot;/&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In ''Scofield'' we decided that Congress intended to distinguish between the external and the internal enforcement of union rules, and that therefore the Board would '''[p74]''' have authority to pass on those rules affecting an individual's employment status but not on his union membership status. 394 U.S., at 428-430.

Inquiry by the Board into the multiplicity of factors that the parties and the Court of Appeals correctly thought to have a bearing on the issue of reasonableness would necessarily lead the Board to a substantial involvement in strictly internal union affairs. While the line may not always be clear between those matters that are internal and those that are external, to the extent that the Board was required to examine into such questions as a union's motivation for imposing a fine it would be delving into internal union affairs in a manner which we have previously held Congress did not intend.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref9&quot;/&gt; Given the rationale of ''Allis-Chalmers'' and ''Scofield'', the Board's conclusion that § 8 (b)(1)(A) of the Act has nothing to say about union fines of this nature, whatever their size, is correct. Issues as to the reasonableness or unreasonableness of such fines must be decided upon the basis of the law of contracts, voluntary associations, or other such principles of law as may be applied in a forum competent to adjudicate the issue. Under our holding, state courts will be wholly free to apply state law to such issues at the suit of either the union or the member fined.

Our conclusion is also supported by the Board's long-standing administrative construction to the same effect. At least since 1954, it has been the Board's consistent position that it has &quot;not been empowered by Congress... to pass judgment on the penalties a union may impose on a member so long as the penalty does not '''[p75]''' impair the member's status as an employee.&quot; ''Local 283, UAW'', 145 N.L.R.B. 1097, 1104 (1964). See also ''Minneapolis Star &amp; Tribune Co.'', 109 N.L.R.B. 727, 34 L.R.R.M. 1431 (1954). We have held in analogous situations that such a consistent and contemporaneous construction of a statute by the agency charged with its enforcement is entitled to great deference by the courts. ''Griggs v. Duke Power Co.'', [[401 U.S. 424]], 433-434 (1971); ''Udall v. Tallman'', [[380 U.S. 1]], 16 (1965).&lt;ref name=&quot;ref10&quot;/&gt;

The Court of Appeals and the Company have suggested several policy reasons why the Board should not leave the determinations of reasonableness entirely to the state courts. Their basic reasons are, first, that more uniformity in the determination of what is reasonable will result if the Board suggests standards and, second, that more expertise in labor matters will be brought to bear if the issue is decided by the Board rather than solely by the courts. Even if we were to concede the relevance of policy factors in determining congressional intent, we are not persuaded that the Board is necessarily the better forum for determining the reasonableness of a fine.

As we noted in ''Allis-Chalmers'', court enforcement of union fines is not a recent innovation but has been known at least since 1867. 388 U.S., at 182 n. 9. See also Summers, The Law of Union Discipline: What the Courts Do in Fact, 70 Yale L. J. 175 (1960). The relationship between a member and his union is generally viewed as contractual in nature, ''International Association of Machinists v. Gonzales'', [[356 U.S. 617]], 618 (1958); ''Scofield v. NLRB'', 394 U.S., at 426 n. 3; ''NLRB v. Textile Workers'', [[409 U.S. 213]], 217 (1972), and the '''[p76]''' local law of contracts or voluntary associations usually governs the enforcement of this relationship. ''NLRB v. Allis-Chalmers Mfg. Co.'', 388 U.S., at 183 and 193 n. 32; ''Scofield v. NLRB, supra'', at 426 n. 3.

We alluded to state court enforcement of unusually harsh union discipline in ''Allis-Chalmers'' when we stated that &quot;state courts, in reviewing the imposition of union discipline, find ways to strike down 'discipline [which] involves a severe hardship.'&quot; 388 U.S., at 193 n. 32, quoting Summers, Legal Limitations on Union Discipline, 64 Harv. L. Rev. 1049, 1078 (1951). The Board assumed that in view of this statement, our reference to &quot;reasonable&quot; fines, when reasonableness was not in issue, in ''Allis-Chalmers'' and in ''Scofield'', was merely adverting to the usual standard applied by state courts in deciding whether to enforce union-imposed fines. The Board reads these cases, therefore, as encouraging state courts to use a reasonableness standard, not as a directive to the Board.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref11&quot;/&gt;

Our review of state court cases decided both before and after our decisions in ''Allis-Chalmers'' and ''Scofield'' reveals that state courts applying state law are quite willing to determine whether disciplinary fines are reasonable in amount.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref12&quot;/&gt; Indeed, the expertise required for a determination '''[p77]''' of reasonableness may well be more evident in a judicial forum that is called upon to assess reasonableness in varying factual contexts than it is in a specialized agency. In assessing the reasonableness of disciplinary fines, for example, state courts are often able to draw on their experience in areas of the law apart from labor relations.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref13&quot;/&gt;

Nor is it clear, as contended by the Court of Appeals, that the Board's setting of standards of reasonableness will necessarily result in greater uniformity in this area even if uniformity is thought to be a desirable goal. Since state courts will have jurisdiction to determine reasonableness in the enforcement context in any event, the Board's independent determination of reasonableness in an unfair labor practice context might well yield a '''[p78]''' conflict when the two forums are called upon to review the same fine.

For all of the foregoing reasons, we conclude that the Board was warranted in determining that when the union discipline does not interfere with the employee-employer relationship or otherwise violate a policy of the National Labor Relations Act,&lt;ref name=&quot;ref14&quot;/&gt; the Congress did not authorize it &quot;to evaluate the fairness of union discipline meted out to protect a legitimate union interest.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref15&quot;/&gt; The judgment of the Court of Appeals is, therefore,


{{rh|||''Reversed.''}}


{{Reflist|refs=

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref1&quot;&gt;&quot;(b) It shall be an unfair labor practice for a labor organization or its agents—
{{paragraph break}}
:&quot;(1) to restrain or coerce (A) employees in the exercise of the rights guaranteed in section 7:
{{paragraph break}}
::''Provided'', That this paragraph shall not impair the right of a labor organization to prescribe its own rules with respect to the acquisition or retention of membership therein....&quot; 61 Stat. 141, [[United States Code/Title 29/Chapter 7/Subchapter II#§ 158. Unfair labor practices.|29 U.S.C. § 158 (b)(1)(A)]].
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref2&quot;&gt;Of the 143 employees who crossed the picket lines, 24 made no attempt to resign from the Union, 61 resigned before crossing the picket lines, and 58 resigned after crossing the picket lines and reporting for work. The validity of the fines imposed against those who resigned from the Union is considered in a companion case, ''Machinists &amp; Aerospace Workers v. NLRB, post'', [[412 U.S. 84|p. 84]]. See also ''NLRB v. Textile Workers'', [[409 U.S. 213]] (1972).
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref3&quot;&gt;The Union constitution provides that members found guilty of misconduct after notice and a hearing are subject to &quot;reprimand, fine, suspension, or expulsion from membership or any lesser penalty or combination.&quot; The constitution sets no maximum dollar limitation on fines.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref4&quot;&gt;The base income of the employees fined ranges from $95 to $145 for a 40-hour workweek.
{{paragraph break}}
Fines were reduced to 50% of wages earned during the strike for 35 members who appeared for the Union trial, apologized for their actions, and pledged loyalty to the Union. Eighteen of these reduced fines have been paid in full.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref5&quot;&gt;The proviso to this section states: &quot;That this paragraph shall not impair the right of a labor organization to prescribe its own rules with respect to the acquisition or retention of membership therein.&quot; It has been the Board's position that this proviso authorizes the unions to impose disciplinary fines on union members. ''Minneapolis Star &amp; Tribune Co.'', 109 N.L.R.B. 727, 34 L.R.R.M. 1431 (1954); ''Wisconsin Motor Corp.'', 145 N.L.R.B. 1097, 55 L.R.R.M. 1085 (1964); ''Allis-Chalmers Mfg. Co.'', 149 N.L.R.B. 67, 57 L.R.R.M. 1242 (1964). This Court, however, in holding that court enforcement of union fines was not an unfair labor practice in ''NLRB v. Allis-Chalmers Mfg. Co.'', [[388 U.S. 175]] (1967), relied on congressional intent only with respect to the first part of this section. The parties' principal contentions in this case do not depend on the scope of the proviso and we do not consider its interpretation necessary to our conclusion.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref6&quot;&gt;In its entirety § 7 provides:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection, and shall also have the right to refrain from any or all of such activities except to the extent that such right may be affected by an agreement requiring membership in a labor organization as a condition of employment as authorized in section 8 (a)(3).&quot; 61 Stat. 140, [[United States Code/Title 29/Chapter 7/Subchapter II#§ 157. Right of employees as to organization, collective bargaining, etc.|29 U.S.C. § 157]].
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref7&quot;&gt;Moreover, since the Board has consistently over a long period of time interpreted the Act as not giving it authority to examine the reasonableness of disciplinary fines, ''infra'', at 74-75, it is not likely that the Court specifically intended, by the use of a single adjective, and without mentioning the Labor Board cases to the contrary, to overturn the Board's interpretation of the Act. Nor can it be argued that the Court was unaware of the Board's interpretation, for the ''Scofield'' Court stated that in ''Allis-Chalmers'' it
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;essentially accepted the position, of the National Labor Relations Board dating from ''Minneapolis Star &amp; Tribune Co.'', 109 N.L.R.B. 727 (1954) where the Board also distinguished internal from external enforcement in holding that a union could fine a member for his failure to take part in picketing during a strike....&quot; ''Scofield v. NLRB'', [[394 U.S. 423]], 428 (1969).
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref8&quot;&gt;As we also noted in ''Allis-Chalmers'', this interpretation is supported by the Landrum-Griffin Act, where &quot;Congress expressly recognized that a union member may be 'fined, suspended, expelled, or otherwise disciplined,' and enacted only procedural requirements to be observed. 73 Stat. 523, 29 U.S.C. § 411 (a)(5)&quot; ''NLRB v. Allis-Chalmers Mfg. Co.'', 388 U.S., at 194.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref9&quot;&gt;Cf. ''Motor Coach Employees v. Lockridge'', [[403 U.S. 274]], 296 (1971); ''U.O.P. Norplex v. NLRB'', 445 F.2d 155, 158 (CA7 1971) (&quot;The reasonableness of the fines is a matter for the state court to determine should the Union seek judicial enforcement of the fines&quot;).
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref10&quot;&gt;It is also noteworthy that when Congress has intended the Board to examine a fee for being excessive or unreasonable, it has specifically so stated and has provided statutory standards for the Board to follow in making such a determination. See, ''e.g.'', [[United States Code/Title 29/Chapter 7/Subchapter II#§ 158. Unfair labor practices.|29 U.S.C. § 158 (b)(5)]] (union initiation fees).
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref11&quot;&gt;The Board's interpretation of our decisions is basically the following:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Thus, the Court's findings that the fines in those cases were reasonable seems directed to enforcing courts, encouraging those courts to make an independent determination of the reasonableness of the fine in each case presented, in the same fashion as courts limit other union discipline which imposes a severe hardship. Such considerations are of an equitable nature rather than of the character of restraint and coercion with which the National Labor Relations Act treats.&quot; ''Machinists, Local Lodge 504 (Arrow Development Co.)'', 185 N.L.R.B. 365, 368, 75 L.R.R.M. 1008, 1010 (1970).&lt;/blockquote&gt;
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref12&quot;&gt;''Auto Workers Local 283 v. Scofield'', 76 L.R.R.M. 2433 (Wis. Sup. Ct. 1971) ($100 fine deemed reasonable); ''Farnum v. Kurtz'', 70 L.R.R.M. 2035 (Los Angeles Mun. Ct. 1968) ($592 fine deemed unreasonable and reduced to $100); ''McCauley v. Federation of Musicians'', 26 L.R.R.M. 2304 (Pa. Ct. of Common Pleas 1950) ($300 fine deemed excessive and reduced to $100); ''North Jersey Newspaper Guild Local No. 173 v. Rakos'', 110 N.J. Super. 77, 264 A.2d 453 (1970) ($750 fine reduced to $500, which was deemed reasonable); ''Walsh v. Communications Workers of America, Local 2336'', 259 Md. 608, 271 A.2d 148 (1970) ($500 fine deemed reasonable); ''Local 248, United Auto Workers v. Natzke'', 36 Wis.2d 237, 153 N.W.2d 602 (1967) ($100 fine upheld); ''Jost v. Communications Workers of America'', Local 9408, 13 Cal.App.3d Supp. 7, 91 Cal.Rptr. 722 (1970) ($299 fine upheld, the court stating that &quot;it is the settled law in this country that, such a fine becomes a debt enforceable by the courts in an amount that is not unreasonably large.&quot; ''Id.'', at 12, 91 Cal.Rptr., at 725).
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref13&quot;&gt; See, ''e.g., Farnum v. Kurtz, supra'', at 2041, where a municipal court judge, in reducing a union-imposed fine of $592 to $100, revealed that the kind of expertise required by this type of case is not that of a technical knowledge of labor law:
&lt;blockquote&gt;'Based upon the facts herein and the Court's experiences [in passing judgment in thousands of misdemeanor cases], the &quot;fine assessed is much too large and unreasonable. The Court finds that a fine of $100.00 serves the ends of justice and is more in keeping with the circumstances herein and reasonable.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref14&quot;&gt;''Scofield v. NLRB'', 394 U.S., at 429; ''NLRB v. Marine Workers'', [[391 U.S. 418]] (1968).
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref15&quot;&gt;''Machinists, Local Lodge 504 (Arrow Development Co.)'', 185 N.L.R.B. 365, 638, 75 L.R.R.M. 1008, 1011 (1970). The Board has long held that the Act proscribes certain, unacceptable methods of union coercion, such as physical. violence to force&quot; an employee to join a union or to participate in a strike. ''In re Maritime Union'', 78 N.L.R.B. 971, enforced, 175 F.2d 686 (CA2 1949), cited in ''Scofield v. NLRB, supra'', at 428 n. 4.
{{paragraph break}}
&lt;/ref&gt;
}}
&lt;/div&gt;
__NOTOC__</text>
      <sha1>9ef3aka8tyk2uv7u2vbobncoz7hakvj</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/100</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847518</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132016</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:41:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;of logs hewed on both sides and all were white- washed outside as well as in. Their yards were all laid out with care and taste, with flowers and shrubs, and nice vegetable gardens at the back, which gave all a homelike appearance. No liquor, tea, coffee or tobacco were to be used. There were men sent out every day to see that all refuse of fish was buried. deep in the ground. He exacted a tax from the fish- ermen all along the shore of ten dollars for e...</comment>
      <origin>15132016</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1588" sha1="o5vgz177qxmyhsvara6o68kqcdnloyh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|90|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of logs hewed on both sides and all were white-
washed outside as well as in. Their yards were all
laid out with care and taste, with flowers and shrubs,
and nice vegetable gardens at the back, which gave
all a homelike appearance. No liquor, tea, coffee or
tobacco were to be used. There were men sent out
every day to see that all refuse of fish was buried.
deep in the ground. He exacted a tax from the fish-
ermen all along the shore of ten dollars for each
boat, and as there were always a large number of
boats, this added quite a little income to the King's
treasury. All paid without hard feelings, as money
was plenty and no one cared to have trouble with the
King. The Bennetts would not pay the tax.
Thomas Bennett felt he had been greatly wronged
about his home, having to leave his land as his Mor-
mon neighbors had made it so unpleasant for them,
besides he felt Strang had no right to collect the tax
from the fishermen. At any rate he refused to pay
when Strang sent his men to collect it and the feel-
ings between them were not very friendly.

{{ph|OUR MORMON NEIGHBORS.}}

The winter of 1851 my brother Lewis went to
Ohio to school; my father was very sick that winter.
We had two Mormon neighbors that were very kind
to us. One was a good doctor, and he took care of
father almost constantly with help from others.
The other Mormon friend was an apostle in the
church. He and his wife lived near us. He had.
charge of the people that lived near the Gentile
settlement. They were very nice people. Both&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>o5vgz177qxmyhsvara6o68kqcdnloyh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:NafisSS2</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>4847519</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132017</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:42:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{welcome}}  ==[[From Prejudice to Pride: The Fight for LGBTQ Rights]]== * Wikisource does '''not''' allow self-published texts. I'm thinking this is self-published because your user name looks a lot like the author's name. * If this is not self-published; and it was published in a verifiable, peer-reviewed forum; then you need to add a link to the source. Wikisource aims to build a verifiable library * And also (still if it can be included), you should respect the sourc...&quot;</comment>
      <origin>15132017</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1005" sha1="in1vu4qdi0vpba3tyax2x1bmphyhung" xml:space="preserve">{{welcome}}

==[[From Prejudice to Pride: The Fight for LGBTQ Rights]]==
* Wikisource does '''not''' allow self-published texts. I'm thinking this is self-published because your user name looks a lot like the author's name.
* If this is not self-published; and it was published in a verifiable, peer-reviewed forum; then you need to add a link to the source. Wikisource aims to build a verifiable library
* And also (still if it can be included), you should respect the source's formatting (which has a 99% chance of ''not'' using mediawiki headings ({{code|1===those==}}))
You may want to read [[WS:WWI]] for more general tips on inclusion. I would appreciate if you can confirm that this is indeed self-published (or else, provide a source). Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:42, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>in1vu4qdi0vpba3tyax2x1bmphyhung</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132223</id>
      <parentid>15132017</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:01:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* From Prejudice to Pride: The Fight for LGBTQ Rights */</comment>
      <origin>15132223</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1650" sha1="tvxl2p2yzxb4ew4a83d0rn98vsl49ja" xml:space="preserve">{{welcome}}

==[[From Prejudice to Pride: The Fight for LGBTQ Rights]]==
* Wikisource does '''not''' allow self-published texts. I'm thinking this is self-published because your user name looks a lot like the author's name.
* If this is not self-published; and it was published in a verifiable, peer-reviewed forum; then you need to add a link to the source. Wikisource aims to build a verifiable library
* And also (still if it can be included), you should respect the source's formatting (which has a 99% chance of ''not'' using mediawiki headings ({{code|1===those==}}))
You may want to read [[WS:WWI]] for more general tips on inclusion. I would appreciate if you can confirm that this is indeed self-published (or else, provide a source). Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:42, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

Without knowing where this work was published, Wikisource must favor '''deletion'''.  We must be able to verify that works meet our requirements for hosting, we must be able to verify that a text is reproduced accurately, and we must be able to verify that it was released under a compatible license.  If we cannot verify those three things, then the work may not be suitable for Wikisource.  We err on the side of caution with regard to copyright.  And if an Author has no works eligible to be hosted here, we do not host a page for that Author. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:01, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tvxl2p2yzxb4ew4a83d0rn98vsl49ja</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133512</id>
      <parentid>15132223</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T06:26:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* From Prejudice to Pride: The Fight for LGBTQ Rights */</comment>
      <origin>15133512</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2118" sha1="hlgt1c4d385igpulfb9w41xqv4ucr0m" xml:space="preserve">{{welcome}}

==[[From Prejudice to Pride: The Fight for LGBTQ Rights]]==
* Wikisource does '''not''' allow self-published texts. I'm thinking this is self-published because your user name looks a lot like the author's name.
* If this is not self-published; and it was published in a verifiable, peer-reviewed forum; then you need to add a link to the source. Wikisource aims to build a verifiable library
* And also (still if it can be included), you should respect the source's formatting (which has a 99% chance of ''not'' using mediawiki headings ({{code|1===those==}}))
You may want to read [[WS:WWI]] for more general tips on inclusion. I would appreciate if you can confirm that this is indeed self-published (or else, provide a source). Thanks, — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 18:42, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

Without knowing where this work was published, Wikisource must favor '''deletion'''.  We must be able to verify that works meet our requirements for hosting, we must be able to verify that a text is reproduced accurately, and we must be able to verify that it was released under a compatible license.  If we cannot verify those three things, then the work may not be suitable for Wikisource.  We err on the side of caution with regard to copyright.  And if an Author has no works eligible to be hosted here, we do not host a page for that Author. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:01, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

Well, given you yourself wrote on that page &quot;author-provided&quot; and &quot;no scanned source is currently available&quot;, that page is now clearly self-published; so I have deleted it (along with the author page, of course). — [[User:Alien333|Alien]] [[User talk:Alien333|&lt;b style=&quot;display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent&quot;&gt;&amp;ensp;3&lt;br/&gt;3 3&lt;/b&gt;]] 06:26, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hlgt1c4d385igpulfb9w41xqv4ucr0m</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/101</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847520</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132018</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:42:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;these neighbors were very much worried about the things Strang was preaching. The people were getting restless and divided. Many wanted to leave the island but had no means to go with, and feared to be punished if found trying to get away. A great many were opposed to polygamy. Strang tried to keep his people in harmony together, but the strife was growing every day. In the early spring Strang came to see my father. He was very sympathetic about his bein...</comment>
      <origin>15132018</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1550" sha1="tct7r6i7vjp69q9fzyvtllzj4907m2y" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|91|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;these neighbors were very much worried about the
things Strang was preaching. The people were
getting restless and divided. Many wanted to
leave the island but had no means to go with, and
feared to be punished if found trying to get away.
A great many were opposed to polygamy. Strang
tried to keep his people in harmony together, but
the strife was growing every day. In the early
spring Strang came to see my father. He was very
sympathetic about his being so sick. Mother told him
how kind Mr. Bower and Mr. Sinclair had been
to us. He seemed greatly pleased and asked to
know if he could do anything to help.

{{ph|STRANG AND HIS FAVORITE WIFE.}}

When he was leaving he said to mother, &quot;Come
over to Sinclair's. My wife is there. We have a
nice baby. Come and see our baby boy.&quot; Mother
took me with her to the apostle's home. There we
saw the King and his favorite wife, Charles Doug-
las, and their baby. I, being fond of babies, wanted
to hold him. I sat in a little chair and the mother
put the child in my arms. The King was afraid I
would let the baby fall. He never let go the child's
dress. He seemed very fond of the child, and it
was plain to be seen that this was his favorite wife.
Most of the time he called her &quot;Charles&quot; and some-
times Elvira. She was very sweet and seemed very
fond of her baby, yet her face seemed sad when
not smiling. Her manner was quiet and her
voice low. Before we left Strang took me on his
lap, asking if I did not want to go to school. I&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tct7r6i7vjp69q9fzyvtllzj4907m2y</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/102</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847521</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132020</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:42:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;stammered &quot;Yes,&quot; but mother said she is too young yet to go to school. When we came home mother said to father, &quot;Don't you ever consent to send Elizabeth to the Mormon school.&quot; Strang had re- mained on the island that winter.  Very soon after our visit to the apostle, we were startled one morning to hear several boats and nets had been taken by the Mormons, with many bar- rels of fish from the store houses near the light- house point at the head of the i...</comment>
      <origin>15132020</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1614" sha1="j3u9efdgoswip7y1wg26asgh8t6qcwm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|92|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;stammered &quot;Yes,&quot; but mother said she is too young
yet to go to school. When we came home mother
said to father, &quot;Don't you ever consent to send
Elizabeth to the Mormon school.&quot; Strang had re-
mained on the island that winter.

Very soon after our visit to the apostle, we were
startled one morning to hear several boats and nets
had been taken by the Mormons, with many bar-
rels of fish from the store houses near the light-
house point at the head of the island. Some Ohio.
fishermen had stored their fish and other property
expecting to come back in the spring, leaving a
man to look after the property. The ice was just
breaking up in the lake. The Mormons took every-
thing to the harbor. Our people saw them passing
very early in the morning. All were well armed
and ready to resist any interference from the
Gentiles. We Gentiles were very frightened, fear-
ing they would take our provisions from us, as
there were all sorts of rumors. Mr. Cable had a
store with a stock of all kinds of merchandise for
their spring trade. He feared they would demand
the keys and take possession of his goods. There
was very little sleep for several nights among us.
Our Mormon friends who were true to us advised
us all to keep very quiet and not be seen talking
with them. They kept us posted as much as pos-
sible. The Gentiles made preparations to defend
themselves. The Mormons took the boats and nets
to the north shore, concealing them in the woods,
making it appear the north shore fishermen did the
plundering. The owners of the property recovered&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>j3u9efdgoswip7y1wg26asgh8t6qcwm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/103</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847522</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132023</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:43:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;the boats and part of the nets, but never recovered any of the fish. They were sold by the Mormons.  At the harbor all was gaiety. Their theater was kept going to amuse the people with dancing parties every week. The King made it a point to entertain the sailors when vessels were detained by rough weather, and they began to think Beaver Harbor was not a bad place to be weather-bound. They found King Strang a charming entertainer. With open- ing of naviga...</comment>
      <origin>15132023</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1542" sha1="tdkbvhh7r9y4dg9ss6ep0i2q7xqlftr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|93|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the boats and part of the nets, but never recovered
any of the fish. They were sold by the Mormons.

At the harbor all was gaiety. Their theater was
kept going to amuse the people with dancing parties
every week. The King made it a point to entertain
the sailors when vessels were detained by rough
weather, and they began to think Beaver Harbor was
not a bad place to be weather-bound. They found
King Strang a charming entertainer. With open-
ing of navigation the summer people came, and our
house was again full of boarders. We had built
a comfortable house, which was almost complete.
Our regular boats were calling, business had started
up and we all felt more secure from the Mormons
as so many people were coming. Fishing was good,
money plenty and everybody was busy. Strang
had gone with his wife and child to attend outside
affairs. The head apostle was in charge of every-
thing and there was much dissatisfaction among
many of his people. Several felt fear for their life,
if they disobeyed the King's command. Among
these was the Apostle Sinclair.

{{ph|THE KILLING OF BENNETT.}}

The Bennetts were living not a great distance
from us. Sam, as the younger brother was called,
had married a young lady from Detroit, a Miss
Sullivan. Thomas now boarded at his brother's
home, and was still very sad over the loss of his
wife and children. I had been visiting a week
with Mrs. Bennett and returned home in the morn-
ing. In the afternoon a message came to our house&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tdkbvhh7r9y4dg9ss6ep0i2q7xqlftr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/104</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847523</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132024</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:43:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;saying that Thomas Bennett was dead. The Mor- mons had shot him. It was hard to believe, yet it was true. The Gentiles were very much excited. and sorrowful, too, as Bennett had been a favorite with us all. Could it be possible they had killed our friend and neighbor?  My three brothers were dressed in their Sun- day suits and walked to the harbor, grandpa going with them, fearing something might happen to the boys. Bennett had always been very fond of m...</comment>
      <origin>15132024</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1499" sha1="ola1f3ra8zo7n8b993q936crc9vnh8d" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|94|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;saying that Thomas Bennett was dead. The Mor-
mons had shot him. It was hard to believe, yet it
was true. The Gentiles were very much excited.
and sorrowful, too, as Bennett had been a favorite
with us all. Could it be possible they had killed
our friend and neighbor?

My three brothers were dressed in their Sun-
day suits and walked to the harbor, grandpa going
with them, fearing something might happen to the
boys. Bennett had always been very fond of my
brothers and they loved him. Now, they must see
him buried. It was long after dark before they
reached the harbor. A Mormon family, who had
some boys about their age, kept them all night. The
next morning they went to where the body was. It
had been put in a blacksmith's shop. Dr. McCul-
loch opened the body to see which of the seven bul-
lets had proved fatal. One had pierced the heart.
The body was put in a plain pine coffin and buried
without prayer or ceremony of any kind. The
grave was near the water in a little grove of cedar
trees where the sound of the waves never ceased.
their solemn murmurings. When my brothers vis-
ited the grave soon after it was piled high with
great rocks, meaning that every Gentile would be
served the same unless they obeyed the king's com-
mands.

{{ph|TO BE BROUGHT DEAD OR ALIVE.}}

The killing of Bennett was a great shock to all
our people, as no one believed the Mormons would
carry things so far. The Bennetts had gone carly&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ola1f3ra8zo7n8b993q936crc9vnh8d</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/105</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847524</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132025</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:44:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;on the lake, returning before noon. While attend- ing to their work in their workhouse two Mormon men stepped in, demanding the tax money. Ben- nett answered, &quot;I want to see the king before I pay it.&quot; The men went away. The Bennetts stepped out to go to their dwelling, when seven bullets were fired at once into the body of Thomas Bennett. He dropped dead instantly. The brother ran toward his house with his hand up to his head. Bullets came thick and fast...</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1547" sha1="j0vyq24jkmhkhk1heaxrvx47uvf4luy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|95|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;on the lake, returning before noon. While attend-
ing to their work in their workhouse two Mormon
men stepped in, demanding the tax money. Ben-
nett answered, &quot;I want to see the king before I
pay it.&quot; The men went away. The Bennetts
stepped out to go to their dwelling, when seven
bullets were fired at once into the body of Thomas
Bennett. He dropped dead instantly. The brother
ran toward his house with his hand up to his head.
Bullets came thick and fast around him. He was
shot through the hand, shattering all his fingers on
one hand. There were many shots entered the win-
dows. Mrs. Bennett to save her life had to go into
the cellar.

The body of Bennett was put into his own boat.
with all the fish there was in the fish house, which
amounted to considerable money, and taking the
wounded brother with them to the harbor. There
the doctor dressed his wound. Strang always de-
clared he never gave orders to have Bennett killed
or to be brought &quot;dead or alive.&quot; Until the killing
of Bennett we could not believe the Mormons meant
to do us bodily harm. Now all was changed. There
was no more open friendship between Mormons and
Gentiles as before. They avoided us, passing us
without speaking with their heads bent and eyes
looking to the ground. They seemed a sad and
silent people.

Not long after Bennett's death I saw the king
coming to our house. The very name of Strang
struck a terror to my heart. I felt so afraid of
them all now. He was almost to the door, dressed&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>j0vyq24jkmhkhk1heaxrvx47uvf4luy</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/106</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847525</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132026</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:44:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;in his black suit and high hat, I always recognized him from the rest. I said to mother, &quot;Oh, where shall I go, I am so afraid of Strang?&quot; Mother's bedstead was a high, old-fashioned one with white curtains about it. I ran and had just time to seat myself under it, and tried hard to pull the curtains around me, but my feet were left sticking out from under the curtain.  {{ph|STRANG HAVING DINNER WITH US.}}  Strang walked in, seating himself in a chair. s...</comment>
      <origin>15132026</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1540" sha1="nhqn4mbuha4h017cwobr2u39lwape0t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|96|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;in his black suit and high hat, I always recognized
him from the rest. I said to mother, &quot;Oh, where
shall I go, I am so afraid of Strang?&quot; Mother's
bedstead was a high, old-fashioned one with white
curtains about it. I ran and had just time to seat
myself under it, and tried hard to pull the curtains
around me, but my feet were left sticking out from
under the curtain.

{{ph|STRANG HAVING DINNER WITH US.}}

Strang walked in, seating himself in a chair.
saying: &quot;Good morning, Mrs. Whitney.&quot; Mother
greeted him very coolly, as she had not seen him
since Bennett's death. How my heart did beat when
he asked where my father was. Then I was sure he
wanted to take me away to the harbor to school.
Mother told him father would soon be in to dinner,
which she was then preparing. Strang said: &quot;I
guess I will stay to dinner, Mrs. Whitney, and
have some of your nice baked whitefish, which I
see you have.&quot; He saw her putting it into the oven.
He talked about many things and after a little while
he said, &quot;Where is your little girl?&quot; Then I was
sure he would take me away. I wanted to scream,
but kept quiet. Mother told him, &quot;The child is
afraid of you since you had Bennett killed.&quot; He
came over to the bed, getting down on his knees,
saying, &quot;Come out, child; I will not hurt you.
Come and sit on my lap.&quot; I drew back. He
pulled me out by the hand, taking me in his arms
and sitting in the chair he stroked my hair, saying:
&quot;I will not hurt you, child. Do not be afraid of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nhqn4mbuha4h017cwobr2u39lwape0t</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/195</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847526</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132027</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:49:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132027</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1572" sha1="eojhwwsfzbs6kr651djdhifp19o5kia" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|chapter XXIII}}
{{dropcap|I}}{{uc|t}} had been increasingly easy for him to forget her. When he had first broken with Joanna, when he had written her that virtuous letter, Maggie's rooms, Maggie's arms were a haven. She was always ready to listen, always sympathetic. She met his advances half way; if he asked for a kiss he got it at once. There was none of Joanna's half-real, half-coquettish withdrawal. No one could accuse Maggie of a lack of modesty. Peter would have been the first to fight such an accuser, but he found himself half-wishing that she were not quite so easy to approach.

Somehow life grew less stimulating. Presently they were settling down into the cosy, prosy existence of the long married couple. In the afternoons Peter came in—he was usually playing with Tom at night—they exchanged a word of greeting. Maggie gave him a dutiful kiss; there would be a word or two about the weather, his playing engagements, then silence. Presently Peter would say: &quot;Mind if I look over the paper a moment, Maggie? I got up late this morning.&quot;

And Maggie's bright answer: &quot;Oh, of course not, I've got my accounts to run over.&quot;

Somehow all the easy, &quot;understanding&quot; conversation had vanished. Joanna, Maggie had soon learned, was not a welcome topic. And Peter no longer went to his classes, so there was no possible theme there. Peter to his disgust found himself drawing unwilling contrasts between these seances and similar moments spent with Joanna. Had there ever been any silences? silences? If there were they were filled with&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{fine|189}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>eojhwwsfzbs6kr651djdhifp19o5kia</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132076</id>
      <parentid>15132027</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:06:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132076</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1572" sha1="dobpnnv9n2k3mzvwlgaqor4or79mklb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|Chapter XXIII}}
{{dropcap|I}}{{uc|t}} had been increasingly easy for him to forget her. When he had first broken with Joanna, when he had written her that virtuous letter, Maggie's rooms, Maggie's arms were a haven. She was always ready to listen, always sympathetic. She met his advances half way; if he asked for a kiss he got it at once. There was none of Joanna's half-real, half-coquettish withdrawal. No one could accuse Maggie of a lack of modesty. Peter would have been the first to fight such an accuser, but he found himself half-wishing that she were not quite so easy to approach.

Somehow life grew less stimulating. Presently they were settling down into the cosy, prosy existence of the long married couple. In the afternoons Peter came in—he was usually playing with Tom at night—they exchanged a word of greeting. Maggie gave him a dutiful kiss; there would be a word or two about the weather, his playing engagements, then silence. Presently Peter would say: &quot;Mind if I look over the paper a moment, Maggie? I got up late this morning.&quot;

And Maggie's bright answer: &quot;Oh, of course not, I've got my accounts to run over.&quot;

Somehow all the easy, &quot;understanding&quot; conversation had vanished. Joanna, Maggie had soon learned, was not a welcome topic. And Peter no longer went to his classes, so there was no possible theme there. Peter to his disgust found himself drawing unwilling contrasts between these seances and similar moments spent with Joanna. Had there ever been any silences? silences? If there were they were filled with&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{fine|189}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dobpnnv9n2k3mzvwlgaqor4or79mklb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/233</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847527</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132028</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:50:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;a companion, the first mate of the schooner &quot;Thom- as Howland.&quot; The bodies were never recovered, and only those who have passed through the same know what a sorrow it is to lose your loved one by drowning and not be able to recover the remains. It is a sorrow that never ends through life.  {{ph|MY APPOINTMENT AS LIGHT-KEEPER.}}  Life to me then seemed darker than the mid- night storm that raged for three days upon the deep, dark waters. I was weak from s...</comment>
      <origin>15132028</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1589" sha1="oie6184j7h1z8fkhdqze0n5upxpgt06" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|215|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;a companion, the first mate of the schooner &quot;Thom-
as Howland.&quot; The bodies were never recovered,
and only those who have passed through the same
know what a sorrow it is to lose your loved one by
drowning and not be able to recover the remains.
It is a sorrow that never ends through life.

{{ph|MY APPOINTMENT AS LIGHT-KEEPER.}}

Life to me then seemed darker than the mid-
night storm that raged for three days upon the
deep, dark waters. I was weak from sorrow, but
realized that though the life that was dearest to me
had gone, yet there were others out on the dark and
treacherous waters who needed to catch the rays of
the shining light from my light-house tower. Noth-
ing could rouse me but that thought, then all my
life and energy was given to the work which now
seemed was given me to do. The light-house was
the only home I had and I was glad and willing to
do my best in the service. My appointment came
in a few weeks after, and since that time I have tried.
faithfully to perform my duty as a light keeper. At
first I felt almost afraid to assume so great a re-
sponsibility, knowing it all required watchful care
and strength, with many sleepless nights. I now
felt a deeper interest in our sailors' lives than ever
before, and I longed to do something for humanity's
sake, as well as earn my own living, having an aged
mother dependent upon me for a home. My father
had passed beyond. Sorrows came thick and fast
upon me. Two brothers and three nephews had.
found graves beneath the deep waters, but mine.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>oie6184j7h1z8fkhdqze0n5upxpgt06</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/232</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847528</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132030</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:51:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;waters on a dark stormy night. Many nights when a gale came on we could hear the flapping of sails and the captain shouting orders as the vessels passed our point into the harbor, seeking shelter from the storm. Sometimes we could count fifty and sixty vessels anchored in our harbor, reaching quite a distance outside the point, as there was not room for so many inside. They lay so close they al- most touched at times. At night our harbor looked like a li...</comment>
      <origin>15132030</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1585" sha1="sino373lxfbcmzf0q0ycnejtprich4c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|214|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;waters on a dark stormy night. Many nights when
a gale came on we could hear the flapping of sails
and the captain shouting orders as the vessels
passed our point into the harbor, seeking shelter
from the storm. Sometimes we could count fifty
and sixty vessels anchored in our harbor, reaching
quite a distance outside the point, as there was not
room for so many inside. They lay so close they al-
most touched at times. At night our harbor looked
like a little city with its many lights. It was a pleas-
ant sound to hear all those sailors' voices singing as
they raised the anchors in the early morning. With
weather fair and white sails set the ships went glid-
ing out so gracefully to their far away ports. My
brothers were sometimes on those ships. Many
captains carried their families on board with them.
during the warm weather. Then what a pleasure
to see the children and hear their sweet voices in
song in the twilight hours. Then again when they
came on shore for a race on land, or taking their
little baskets went out to pick the wild strawberries.
All these things made life the more pleasant and
cheerful.

{{ph|DEATH OF MY HUSBAND, THE LIGHT-KEEPER.}}

Life seemed very bright in our light house be-
side the sea. One dark and stormy night we heard
the flapping of sails and saw the lights flashing in
the darkness. The ship was in distress. After a
hard struggle she reached the harbor and was leak-
ing so badly she sank. My husband in his efforts.
to assist them lost his life. He was drowned with&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>sino373lxfbcmzf0q0ycnejtprich4c</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/231</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847529</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132031</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:51:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;business was discontinued and all our time was de- voted to the care of the light. In the spring of 1870. a large force of men came with material to build a new tower and repair the dwelling, adding a new brick kitchen. Mr. Newton with his two sons had charge of the work. A new fourth order lens was placed in the new tower and the color of the light changed from white to red. These improvements. were a great addition to the station from what it had been....</comment>
      <origin>15132031</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1571" sha1="nl74021jx3s9cdwm49s1rzd6j4t7jf1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|213|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;business was discontinued and all our time was de-
voted to the care of the light. In the spring of 1870.
a large force of men came with material to build a
new tower and repair the dwelling, adding a new
brick kitchen. Mr. Newton with his two sons had
charge of the work. A new fourth order lens was
placed in the new tower and the color of the light
changed from white to red. These improvements.
were a great addition to the station from what it
had been. Our tower was built round with a wind-
ing stairs of iron steps. My husband having now
very poor health I took charge of the care of the
lamps, and the beautiful lens in the tower was my
especial care. On stormy nights I watched the light
that no accident might happen. We burned the
lard oil, which needed great care, especially in cold
weather, when the oil would congeal and fail to flow
fast enough to the wicks. In long nights the lamps.
had to be trimmed twice each night, and sometimes.
oftener. At such times the light needed careful
watching. From the first the work had a fascina-
tion for me. I loved the water, having always been
near it, and I loved to stand in the tower and watch
the great rolling waves chasing and tumbling in
upon the shore. It was hard to tell when it was
loveliest. Whether in its quiet moods or in a rag-
ing foam.

{{ph|VESSELS SEEKING SHELTER FROM THE STORMS.}}

My three brothers were then sailing, and how
glad I felt that their eyes might catch the bright
rays of our light shining out over the waste of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nl74021jx3s9cdwm49s1rzd6j4t7jf1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/196</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847530</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132032</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:51:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132032</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1904" sha1="22vw58dasr6vlrbvu6yuwpc3l8twav2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|190|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;all sorts of tingling thoughts and meanings. There was the night when Joanna leaned against him in Morningside Park. They had said nothing. But the very air about them was pulsing. How long ago all that seemed! Had it ever been true? Why had he never felt like that when Maggie, as she frequently did, rested her head on his shoulder?

He would shake himself angrily out of his reverie. &quot;Silly ass,&quot; his lips formed.

Maggie seeing his lips move would ask him interestedly: &quot;What's the matter, Peter?&quot;

&quot;Nothing at all,&quot; he'd tell her contritely. What should be the matter with his dear Maggie so near? Sometimes he put an arm around her shoulder. &quot;Look here, I've got an hour yet. Like to go out?&quot;

That never failed to please her. She loved to be seen with him. She had a very charming, flattering air of deference, of dependence when she was out. It was singularly pleasing and yet puzzling to Peter. Joanna now was just as likely to cross the street as not, without waiting for a guiding hand, a protecting arm. If she had once visited a locality she knew quite as much about getting away from it as her escort. But Maggie was helpless, dependent. Strange when they were all growing up together he would have said she was quite as independent in her way as Joanna, and she was decidedly capable in her hair-dressing work. Madame Harkness' business had increased considerably in Philadelphia and Baltimore.

Peter had often mused over this.

He had known for some time that he did not love Maggie. But he could not tell whether or not she loved him. Certainly she had appeared to at first, and certainly even now she clung to him. Her very submissiveness would seem to indicate some depth of feeling. He remembered Maggie as being anything but yielding in their earlier days, and she had never apparently changed one iota in her resentment toward her husband. She&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>22vw58dasr6vlrbvu6yuwpc3l8twav2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/230</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847531</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132034</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:52:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ph|WENTWORTH'S VISIT TO HIS ISLAND HOME.}}  Soon after I was married Alexander Wentworth, one of the men that shot Strang, boarded with us for several weeks. He came back to the island to visit and see how things were prospering. He was a fine looking and intelligent man, very quiet in his manner. We had several other boarders at the same. time, people who came to see King Strang's Island. Alec, as they always called him, was their guide to show them t...</comment>
      <origin>15132034</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1548" sha1="t4u1ync849lgxy22sesib0zl0taga38" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|212|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|WENTWORTH'S VISIT TO HIS ISLAND HOME.}}

Soon after I was married Alexander Wentworth,
one of the men that shot Strang, boarded with us
for several weeks. He came back to the island to
visit and see how things were prospering. He was
a fine looking and intelligent man, very quiet in his
manner. We had several other boarders at the same.
time, people who came to see King Strang's Island.
Alec, as they always called him, was their guide to
show them the best fishing streams and take them
to hunt ducks and wild pigeons. I often talked with
Wentworth about the shooting of Strang, asking
him if he had any regrets about what he had done.
He said, &quot;I have never yet regretted what I did.
The Mormon life was bad, and there was no good.
in it as I can see and I would not live it over again
for anything.&quot; The place he liked to go best was
to little Font Lake to the &quot;Johnson House,&quot; his
wife's old &quot;Island Home.&quot; This had been the sec-
ond season he came. After that he never came
again and we never heard from him any more.

{{ph|MY HUSBAND APPOINTED LIGHT-KEEPER.}}

The winter of 1865 we spent a very pleasant
winter in Northport, the next winter in Charlevoix,
where we had built us a new home on Bridge
street. We sold and returned again to the island,
engaging in the fishing business quite extensively
for a few years.

In August of 1869 Mr. Peter McKinley resigned.
his position as light-keeper, my husband being ap-
pointed in his place. Then began a new life, other&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>t4u1ync849lgxy22sesib0zl0taga38</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/229</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847532</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132035</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:53:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;cultivate their gardens and farms. They learned rapidly to make their gardens, to plant corn and vegetables. but these little flower seeds, they could not manage them. Chief Peain was a very social, intelligent man. He watched the process of making the flower beds and the putting in of the small seeds. Then he said, &quot;Too much work for Indian.&quot; He then took many of the boys and girls with some of the older ones to help clearing off three or four acres of...</comment>
      <origin>15132035</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1603" sha1="cog6c4cqdznipzbm2t6sl95jau90grr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|211|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;cultivate their gardens and farms. They learned
rapidly to make their gardens, to plant corn and
vegetables. but these little flower seeds, they could
not manage them. Chief Peain was a very social,
intelligent man. He watched the process of making
the flower beds and the putting in of the small seeds.
Then he said, &quot;Too much work for Indian.&quot; He
then took many of the boys and girls with some
of the older ones to help clearing off three or four
acres of land, put a brush fence around it, they then
took the flower seeds of the different kinds, sowing
them like grain and raked them in. Well, such a
flower garden was never seen! There was every
flower in the catalogue growing up together, and
never were flowers enjoyed as those Indians en-
joyed that flower garden. Every day at all hours
could be seen both old and young going out to look
at the bright flowers. Old grandmothers with the
little grand children would sit in the shade near the
flowers and work the pretty beads on the deerskin
moccasins while the children played and amused.
themselves. As soon as school was over then the
race began for the flower garden. And it was a
pleasure to us to see them so happy. It was called
The Chief's Garden.&quot; He was greatly pleased
with the bright flowers, and had us write a letter
of thanks to the Indian agent for him.

We always had several friends visiting us from
Milwaukee and other cities, which made the time
seem all too short. I often look back to that two
years of my life and feel that my time was not
wasted.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cog6c4cqdznipzbm2t6sl95jau90grr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/197</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847533</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132036</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:53:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132036</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1917" sha1="4og87q2e3in8dkyygrgf3deh6x4u3br" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|191|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;was making a remarkably good living from her connection with Madame Harkness, had bought the house in New York and was contributing to her mother. She could not be marrying him to be taken care of.

Of course he knew nothing of her ''flair'', her passion for being connected with &quot;real&quot; people—for &quot;class&quot; as he would have called it. And if he had known this, it would have explained nothing to him, for he never thought of himself in this sense. His most frequent source of worry consisted in wondering if Maggie realized how lukewarm his feeling was for her. Apparently she never suspected it.

Maggie may not have let Peter realize it, but she was completely aware that he did not love her. She understood, had always understood, that Joanna was the one woman in the world for him. Having loved Joanna once there was no possibility of his caring about any one else. She had recognized in Peter's turning to her a manifestation of the state of mind which had led her at the time of her marriage to turn to Henderson Neal.

Her acceptance of Peter had been almost spontaneous, yet it was governed subconsciously by two or three motives. First of all, while she thought it extremely probable that Joanna liked, even loved Peter, she did not believe that Joanna would ever consider marriage with him as important as her art. Therefore she might just as well take him. Then she enjoyed the artistic fitness of showing Joanna that a girl whom the latter did not consider worthy to marry her brother was deemed worthy to marry her lover. And last and most important, Maggie saw through Peter a second means of entrance into the society of &quot;real&quot; people. She had glimpsed this once through the possibility of marriage with Philip. Instead Henderson Neal had closed this entrance to her, she had once believed, forever. She must not fail to take advantage of this new avenue.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4og87q2e3in8dkyygrgf3deh6x4u3br</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/211</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847534</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132037</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:54:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;with rose bushes at the head. We went up stairs and saw the large dancing hall with its waxed floors which were still glossy. She told me how beauti- fully it had been furnished. The parlors and all the rooms were large. Rose bushes grew near the windows, flower gardens with blooming flowers. The setting sun was shining through the windows; the house was clean and it seemed the occupants had just cleaned house and not yet arranged the furni- ture. It had...</comment>
      <origin>15132037</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1555" sha1="cy5ufcee1yq72lohc2mfo40s8nxjovq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|193|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;with rose bushes at the head. We went up stairs
and saw the large dancing hall with its waxed floors
which were still glossy. She told me how beauti-
fully it had been furnished. The parlors and all
the rooms were large. Rose bushes grew near the
windows, flower gardens with blooming flowers.
The setting sun was shining through the windows;
the house was clean and it seemed the occupants had
just cleaned house and not yet arranged the furni-
ture. It had such a bright, cheerful look. Some
city visitors had lived there all summer. Yes, these
people were another disappointed family. They had
a very handsome daughter highly educated and a
fine musician. Strang and &quot;Douglass&quot; used to go
there to the parties given, the family not knowing at
first that &quot;Charles Douglas&quot; was a woman, that be-
ing another one of the king's jokes. Mr. Wentworth
married this daughter and the king's visits became
disagreeable to the young wife. This caused hard
feelings and may have been one of the reasons for
Wentworth's shooting the king. We hurried home
as the sun was sinking in the west, and I wanted to
get away from all these empty houses, for every one
seemed like an open grave. I staid with Mary all
night and her mother told me many things about
their life on the island.

{{ph|MRS. CAMPBELL'S STORY.}}

&quot;We had a comfortable home in New York State.
near to where many more of our neighbors who
came with us lived. Strang himself, with two more
apostles, were traveling through the country&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cy5ufcee1yq72lohc2mfo40s8nxjovq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/212</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847535</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132039</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:54:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;preaching and telling about the rich beautiful coun- try they had found. We went to hear them, and, like many others, were greatly pleased. Strang did most of the talking himself. He was a brilliant. talker. He had such a bright, cheerful manner we were won from the first. We sold our home, the other neighbors doing the same, and in a short time started for the &quot;Promised Land.&quot; When we reached here we found nothing as it had been represented to us. The i...</comment>
      <origin>15132039</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1648" sha1="bl4u73atxrh42wh59icmx56fdagqwee" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|194|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;preaching and telling about the rich beautiful coun-
try they had found. We went to hear them, and,
like many others, were greatly pleased. Strang did
most of the talking himself. He was a brilliant.
talker. He had such a bright, cheerful manner we
were won from the first. We sold our home, the
other neighbors doing the same, and in a short time
started for the &quot;Promised Land.&quot; When we reached
here we found nothing as it had been represented to
us. The island was in its wild natural state. A few
had cleared some land and were struggling along
the best they could. Our first winter was a hard
one, and I cannot bear to think how sadly we were
disapointed. When I asked Strang why we had
not been told the truth he always turned it off in
some way, talking so encouragingly and always
making us see the brightest side. Life became busy,
as we had a large family dependent upon us. We
had some money saved and bought this land and
built this house, which you see is large and com-
fortable. Our children were sent to school and we
were beginning to feel quite contented. I often went
to hear Strang preach, but I did not feel satisfied,
his doctrine did not sound the same as he told it to
us before we left our old home, and he was having
so many &quot;New Revelations&quot; that I soon lost what
little belief I had ever had in the doctrine. Some-
how it was different from what my old family
Bible taught me, but I said very little about it at
first, although a few of us women used to say
Strang had too many revelations to be true. He
never spoke anything to me about them, but often&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bl4u73atxrh42wh59icmx56fdagqwee</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/213</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847536</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132041</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:54:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;spoke to other women he called upon. Very soon he preached in the temple that he had a new revela- tion that all the apostles and officers in the Church of Zion must take more wives, and had already taken more himself. This preaching stirred us women up, as he had preached before against poly- gamy, and about this time I found the king was urging my husband to accept a high office in the church. I called upon the king, asking if this was all true that we...</comment>
      <origin>15132041</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1643" sha1="bwfw9ys7d6o1xfty3jljbczm523rj6c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|195|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;spoke to other women he called upon. Very soon
he preached in the temple that he had a new revela-
tion that all the apostles and officers in the Church
of Zion must take more wives, and had already
taken more himself. This preaching stirred us
women up, as he had preached before against poly-
gamy, and about this time I found the king was
urging my husband to accept a high office in the
church. I called upon the king, asking if this was
all true that we heard. He answered in a very de-
cided tone, &quot;Yes, it is true, and the law will be en-
forced if you do not quietly submit.&quot; I told him I
would never submit or consent to another woman
coming into my house while I lived. He said. &quot;You
are not yet high enough in the faith to understand
the true meaning of being sealed to spiritual wives.&quot;
Well, I tell you I was mad. I went home, and in a
few days I joined with several other women. We
went to the temple, I carrying my family Bible, and
there we faced the King. We women talked faster
than he could. He tried to have us stopped but
could not. You know how it all ended; I was sorry
to see him killed, yet I knew something terrible
would happen to him and I told him so when I
talked that day. I said such things cannot go on
any longer. All these homes would not be empty
had Strang lived according to the doctrine he
preached to us before we sold our old homes and
came here; we would have been a happy, contented
people, but his teachings were all false from begin-
ning to end, and he has suffered the same fate of
Joseph Smith, whose example he followed. I know&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bwfw9ys7d6o1xfty3jljbczm523rj6c</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/849</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847537</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132042</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:55:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;&quot;'&quot;I forbid you to come near me or to see me again unless you find him. Go away!&quot;   &quot;'He did go away.   &quot;'I have never seen one or the other of them since, Monsieur, and thus I have lived for the last twenty years.   &quot;'Can you imagine what all this meant to me? Can you understand this monstrous punishment, this slow,  perpetual laceration of a mother's heart, this abominable, endless waiting? Endless, did I say? No: it is about to  end, for I am dying. I...</comment>
      <origin>15132042</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2725" sha1="rjmya0lw320bdwwprzudmtbzquh0g3c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||MOTHER AND SON!!!|815}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;'&quot;I forbid you to come near me or to see me again unless you find him. Go away!&quot; 

&quot;'He did go away. 

&quot;'I have never seen one or the other of them since, Monsieur, and thus I have lived for the last twenty years. 

&quot;'Can you imagine what all this meant to me? Can you understand this monstrous punishment, this slow, 
perpetual laceration of a mother's heart, this abominable, endless waiting? Endless, did I say? No: it is about to 
end, for I am dying. I am dying without ever again seeing either of them — either one or the other! 

&quot;'He — the man I loved — ^has written 
to me every day for the last twenty 
years; and I — I have never consented to 
see him, even for one second; for I 
had a strange feeling that if he came 
back here, it would be at that very 
moment my son would again make his 
appearance! Ah! my son! my son! Is 
he dead? Is he living? Where is he 
hiding? Over there perhaps, at the? 
other side of the ocean, in some country 
so far av/ay that even its very name is 
unknown to me! Does he ever think 
of me? Ah! if he only knew! How 
cruel children are! Did he understand 
to what frightful suffering he con- 
demned me, into what depths of des- 
pair, into what tortures, he cast me 
while I was still in the prime of life, 
leaving me to suffer like this even to 
this moment when I am going to die — - 
me, his mother, who loved him with all 
the violence of a mother's love! Oh! 
isn't it cruel, cruel? 

&quot;'You will tell him all this. Mon- 
sieur — will you not? You will repeat 
for him my last words: 

&quot; * &quot;My child, my dear, dear child, 
be less harsh toward poor women! Life 
is already brutal and savage enough in 
its dealing with them. My dear son, 
think of what the existence of your 
poor mother has been ever since the 
day when you left her. My dear child, 
forgive her, and love her, now that she 
is dead, for she has had to endure the 
most frightful penance ever inflicted 
on a woman.&quot; 

'&quot;She gasped for breath shuddering, 
as if she had addressed her last words 
to her son and as if he stood by her 
bedsid3. 

&quot;Then she added: 

&quot; 'You will tell him also, Monsieur, 
that I never again saw — the other.' 

&quot;Once more she ceased speaking, 
then, in a broken voice she said: 

&quot; 'Leave me now, I beg of you. I 
want to die all alone, since they are 
not with me.' &quot; 

Maitre Ic Brument added: 

&quot;I left the house, Messieurs, cry- 
ing like a fool, so vehemently, indeed, 
that my coachman turned round to 
stare at me. 

&quot;And to think that every day heaps 
of dramas like this are being enacted 
all around us! 

&quot;I have not found the son — that son 
— well, say what you like about him, 
but I call him that criminal son!&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rjmya0lw320bdwwprzudmtbzquh0g3c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132073</id>
      <parentid>15132042</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:05:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132073</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2689" sha1="3ikkvpyp57x5os37k7k61qob7k4dti5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||MOTHER AND SON!!!|815}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;'&quot;I forbid you to come near me or to see me again unless you find him. Go away!&quot; 

&quot;'He did go away. 

&quot;'I have never seen one or the other of them since, Monsieur, and thus I have lived for the last twenty years. 

&quot;'Can you imagine what all this meant to me? Can you understand this monstrous punishment, this slow, 
perpetual laceration of a mother's heart, this abominable, endless waiting? Endless, did I say? No: it is about to 
end, for I am dying. I am dying without ever again seeing either of them — either one or the other! 

&quot;'He — the man I loved — has written to me every day for the last twenty years; and I — I have never consented to see him, even for one second; for I had a strange feeling that if he came back here, it would be at that very moment my son would again make his appearance! Ah! my son! my son! Is he dead? Is he living? Where is he hiding? Over there perhaps, at the other side of the ocean, in some country so far away that even its very name is unknown to me! Does he ever think of me? Ah! if he only knew! How cruel children are! Did he understand to what frightful suffering he condemned me, into what depths of despair, into what tortures, he cast me while I was still in the prime of life, leaving me to suffer like this even to this moment when I am going to die — me, his mother, who loved him with all the violence of a mother's love! Oh! isn't it cruel, cruel? 

&quot;'You will tell him all this. Monsieur — will you not? You will repeat for him my last words: 

&quot; * &quot;My child, my dear, dear child, 
be less harsh toward poor women! Life 
is already brutal and savage enough in 
its dealing with them. My dear son, 
think of what the existence of your 
poor mother has been ever since the 
day when you left her. My dear child, 
forgive her, and love her, now that she 
is dead, for she has had to endure the 
most frightful penance ever inflicted 
on a woman.&quot; 

'&quot;She gasped for breath shuddering, 
as if she had addressed her last words 
to her son and as if he stood by her 
bedsid3. 

&quot;Then she added: 

&quot; 'You will tell him also, Monsieur, 
that I never again saw — the other.' 

&quot;Once more she ceased speaking, 
then, in a broken voice she said: 

&quot; 'Leave me now, I beg of you. I 
want to die all alone, since they are 
not with me.' &quot; 

Maitre Ic Brument added: 

&quot;I left the house, Messieurs, cry- 
ing like a fool, so vehemently, indeed, 
that my coachman turned round to 
stare at me. 

&quot;And to think that every day heaps 
of dramas like this are being enacted 
all around us! 

&quot;I have not found the son — that son 
— well, say what you like about him, 
but I call him that criminal son!&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3ikkvpyp57x5os37k7k61qob7k4dti5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132083</id>
      <parentid>15132073</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:09:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132083</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2670" sha1="9ir1h3iqvmqtk3btmrkrp0g5a30hr4r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||MOTHER AND SON!!!|815}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;'&quot;I forbid you to come near me or to see me again unless you find him. Go away!&quot; 

&quot;'He did go away. 

&quot;'I have never seen one or the other of them since, Monsieur, and thus I have lived for the last twenty years. 

&quot;'Can you imagine what all this meant to me? Can you understand this monstrous punishment, this slow, 
perpetual laceration of a mother's heart, this abominable, endless waiting? Endless, did I say? No: it is about to 
end, for I am dying. I am dying without ever again seeing either of them — either one or the other! 

&quot;'He — the man I loved — has written to me every day for the last twenty years; and I — I have never consented to see him, even for one second; for I had a strange feeling that if he came back here, it would be at that very moment my son would again make his appearance! Ah! my son! my son! Is he dead? Is he living? Where is he hiding? Over there perhaps, at the other side of the ocean, in some country so far away that even its very name is unknown to me! Does he ever think of me? Ah! if he only knew! How cruel children are! Did he understand to what frightful suffering he condemned me, into what depths of despair, into what tortures, he cast me while I was still in the prime of life, leaving me to suffer like this even to this moment when I am going to die — me, his mother, who loved him with all the violence of a mother's love! Oh! isn't it cruel, cruel? 

&quot;'You will tell him all this. Monsieur — will you not? You will repeat for him my last words: 

&quot;'&quot;My child, my dear, dear child, be less harsh toward poor women! Life is already brutal and savage enough in 
its dealing with them. My dear son, think of what the existence of your poor mother has been ever since the 
day when you left her. My dear child, forgive her, and love her, now that she 
is dead, for she has had to endure the most frightful penance ever inflicted on a woman.&quot; 

&quot;She gasped for breath shuddering, as if she had addressed her last words to her son and as if he stood by her bedside. 

&quot;Then she added: 

&quot;'You will tell him also, Monsieur, that I never again saw — the other.' 

&quot;Once more she ceased speaking, then, in a broken voice she said: 

&quot;'Leave me now, I beg of you. I want to die all alone, since they are not with me.'&quot; 

Maître le Brument added: 

&quot;I left the house, Messieurs, crying like a fool, so vehemently, indeed, 
that my coachman turned round to stare at me. 

&quot;And to think that every day heaps of dramas like this are being enacted all around us! 

&quot;I have not found the son — that son — well, say what you like about him, but I call him that criminal son!&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9ir1h3iqvmqtk3btmrkrp0g5a30hr4r</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/214</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847538</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132043</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:55:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;there were bad men influencing him to do all this. It might have been for the purpose of getting rid of him so they themselves could take his place. It is all ended and I am glad I never knew anything more about Mormonism than I have since I came here.&quot;  {{ph|BURNING OF THE MORMON TEMPLE.}}  At the time the Mormons left the island the temple was left standing. The excitement was so great and the Gentiles feared the Mormons might return with another leade...</comment>
      <origin>15132043</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1449" sha1="4p0h0t101fcv7k4nj1qud6zf3edarug" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|196|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;there were bad men influencing him to do all this.
It might have been for the purpose of getting rid
of him so they themselves could take his place.
It is all ended and I am glad I never knew anything
more about Mormonism than I have since I came
here.&quot;

{{ph|BURNING OF THE MORMON TEMPLE.}}

At the time the Mormons left the island the
temple was left standing. The excitement was so
great and the Gentiles feared the Mormons might
return with another leader in Strang's place, so
they thought best to burn the temple. It was of
the exact pattern as the one at Kirtland, Ohio, as
Strang had built it after the same plans. The
building was all up and inclosed, but not yet fin-
ished. The large room used for preaching was
also used for the council room.

{{ph|ROCKY MOUNTAIN OR INDIAN POINT.}}

In my rides about the island there were
many narrow paths in every direction and the
young growth of trees made it almost impossible to
pass through. We would come upon many little log
cabins in the dense woods with no clearing except a
small yard and I wondered why this was so. I was
told these were some of the places where they used
to secrete stolen goods, it being such an out-of-the-
way place and in the dense woods no one would ex-
pect to find a house. One of the band of &quot;Forty
Thieves&quot; who lived with us a few months after I
was married and keeping house, told us there were&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4p0h0t101fcv7k4nj1qud6zf3edarug</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/215</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847539</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132044</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:56:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;many such places about that locality of Rocky Mountain, or Indian Point as it has always been called late years, where goods could be hid and they could hide themselves so as not to be found by any stranger. The very mention of the band of &quot;Forty Thieves&quot; struck terror to people's hearts in the days of Mormon rule. There were rumors of many dark deeds done by that band of highwaymen, or pirates as they were sometimes called. It was common talk among Gent...</comment>
      <origin>15132044</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1653" sha1="tccwthi5eco3yox97x7agpjga71pzo6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|197|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;many such places about that locality of Rocky
Mountain, or Indian Point as it has always been
called late years, where goods could be hid and
they could hide themselves so as not to be found
by any stranger. The very mention of the band of
&quot;Forty Thieves&quot; struck terror to people's hearts in
the days of Mormon rule. There were rumors of
many dark deeds done by that band of highwaymen,
or pirates as they were sometimes called. It was
common talk among Gentiles, and told us by some
of their own people who were not very loyal to the
king, that vessels were plundered and the crews.
never heard from. Of course this none of us knew
to be true, yet a great many things happened to lead
us to think that it might be a possibility. When my
people came back to the island there was still a great
quantity of goods left stored away in some houses
up in that part called &quot;Enoch,&quot; about one mile dis-
tant from the harbor. There were several boxes of
shoes, some crates of dishes partly full, screen cup-
boards, furniture, chairs and tables. One small
house was almost full of stoves. All these goods
were new and did not seem to have been damaged.
The people who came had helped themselves to all
they wanted and wondered where all the goods came
from. This helped to make the rumors prove more
true that vessels had been plundered and the
crews killed. One of our lake captains told me he
had a brother who was last seen at Beaver harbor.
The vessel and crew were never heard from and no
one knew their fate. Of course when Strang's pen-
ple were getting so bold, doing what they did, tak-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tccwthi5eco3yox97x7agpjga71pzo6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/198</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847540</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132045</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:56:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132045</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1904" sha1="na5zy9lul3qo6ucdgswr98wlryt0bdx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|192|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Already she was beginning to reap its value. Miss Alice Talbert, it is true, became colder than ever when Maggie's engagement to Peter was known. She told Arabelle Morton that she considered &quot;Peter done for, ruined, if he married that gambler's wife. Cousin Joanna did well to get rid of him.&quot; But Arabelle herself had laughed, had said she wanted to meet the girl who had captured &quot;that good-looking Bye boy.&quot; She had come to see Maggie, had invited her to the Morton house. Her good-natured shallowness, her frank determination not to be a &quot;high-brow&quot; and her complete social assurance captivated Maggie. Arabelle was of as unimpeachable standing as Miss Talbert, though her choice of friends was not so exclusive. Maggie was &quot;taken up&quot; by the young women of Arabelle's set and henceforth her lines were comparatively easy. Still she met with an occasional snub from the older women. Mrs. Viny, who turned out to be the terrible old lady who had asked her about Mr. Neal in Atlantic City, refused grimly to recognize her and gave it as her opinion that &quot;Peter's doings would make Isaiah Bye turn over in his grave—yet. You mark my word.&quot;

Her hearers got a vision of the dust and nothingness which, for many years, had been Isaiah Bye, slowly shifting its position in the narrow quarters of his tomb.

Maggie had her own plans. She did not mean to have Peter following forever in Tom Mason's train. But after they had married she would bring about a change. She was sure she could coax him. It would never do to let Joanna think, she would tell him, that he could not achieve distinction without ''her''. And when Peter Bye became Dr. Bye, the famous surgeon, Philadelphia would find that Mrs. Peter Bye had a long memory.

Only Peter, who at first had agreed to marry in June, now some months later seemed in no haste to marry at all—that was the rub.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>na5zy9lul3qo6ucdgswr98wlryt0bdx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/54</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847541</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132046</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:56:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132046</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="862" sha1="ng7thlyf77qgddslpkr4bdgc12h30yv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|36|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Just a minute. See here He. I don’t want to make a contract with you.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Just as you please. Do you know what? Don’t let us talk about money. You are an honest fellow, Briquet; you will see what my work is worth to you, and then{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

[''Pleased'']: Now that’s very nice of you. Zinida, the man really doesn’t know anything.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Well, do as he suggests. Now we must write it down. Where’s the book?

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Here. [''To HE''.] I don’t like to write [''gives book to'' {{sc|Zinida}}), but we have to put down the names of the actors, you know—it’s police regulations. Then if anyone kills himself, or{{longdash}}

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''Again comes the sound of the Tango, and calls from the ring''.]
{{dent/e}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ng7thlyf77qgddslpkr4bdgc12h30yv</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/216</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847542</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132047</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:56:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;ing everything from the fishermen, it could easily be believed they would plunder vessels if a good op- portunity came.  {{ph|THE SECRET SOCIETY.}}  Many have been the hours spent, and days even, by people hunting to find the hull of a schooner which was said to have been sunk off Little Sand Bay, myself among the rest, and several times we were sure we could see the hull of the vessel lying at the bottom of the lake several rods from shore. We often wen...</comment>
      <origin>15132047</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1558" sha1="r5r43o6hcgntgmrflszfvxosvlsru0w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|198|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ing everything from the fishermen, it could easily
be believed they would plunder vessels if a good op-
portunity came.

{{ph|THE SECRET SOCIETY.}}

Many have been the hours spent, and days even,
by people hunting to find the hull of a schooner
which was said to have been sunk off Little Sand
Bay, myself among the rest, and several times we
were sure we could see the hull of the vessel lying
at the bottom of the lake several rods from shore.
We often went rowing and sailing in that direction
and we were sure to say, &quot;Let's look for the wreck.&quot;
I asked the young man that boarded with us about
it, as he had once been a member of the &quot;Secret
Society.&quot; I said, &quot;Is it true? Has there been such
things done?&quot; He said, &quot;If only these stones could
talk they would tell you of some things that would
horrify you, and though I am free from Mormon.
rule, I would not dare to tell you some things which
our band was sworn to do. We were trained for
our work and were known among ourselves as the
&quot;Secret Society.&quot; It meant sure death to any of us
to betray anything pertaining to our business.&quot; He
was only eighteen at the time he joined the &quot;Secret
Society.&quot; He often had spells of great sadness and
many nights walked the floor because he could not
sleep. Once I said to him, &quot;Did the King ever give
you orders what to do?&quot; He said, &quot;At first the
orders were given our captains by the King, but it
was not long before we never waited for orders.
from headquarters. We did what we found to do.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>r5r43o6hcgntgmrflszfvxosvlsru0w</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/217</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847543</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132048</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:57:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;It was the intention that Strang should own and rule the whole territory about these islands and mainland as fast as he could get his people scattered about to possess the whole. Strang got too busy making laws that did not suit many of the women, which was one cause of the ill-feeling among his people.&quot;  {{ph|PAGE TOWN.}}  In one of my rides with Mary we went to the place called &quot;Rocky Mountain Point,&quot; where the forty thieves had their rendezvous. It wa...</comment>
      <origin>15132048</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1492" sha1="tdtfxx2n56w55ambid4ldpwio518kez" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|199|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;It was the intention that Strang should own and
rule the whole territory about these islands and
mainland as fast as he could get his people scattered
about to possess the whole. Strang got too busy
making laws that did not suit many of the women,
which was one cause of the ill-feeling among his
people.&quot;

{{ph|PAGE TOWN.}}

In one of my rides with Mary we went to the
place called &quot;Rocky Mountain Point,&quot; where the
forty thieves had their rendezvous. It was a lonely.
place, with the waves rolling in over the rocky shore
where we went to the beach and the woods were
dense. I had heard so many stories of the Mor-
mons' doings there I felt afraid and told Mary I
wanted to hurry away, which we did as fast as our
horses could travel through the path. When we
came to &quot;Page Town&quot; then the spell was broken.
No one could look upon this beautiful place and
feel fear. The view is grand out over the water to
the neighboring islands and the evergreens are
most beautiful. &quot;Page Town&quot; is just on the Lake
Michigan side of Font Lake. We could see the
Johnson House as we rested on the bank of the
lake. There were about a dozen houses scattered.
about, some right near the bank and others back in
among the evergreens. It was named in honor of
Mr. Page, who first built his house there with sev-
eral of his relatives. The location is most beauti-
ful. At this spot Lake Michigan is not quite a
half mile from Font Lake.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tdtfxx2n56w55ambid4ldpwio518kez</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/218</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847544</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132049</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:57:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;The land is a little rolling going out to Font Lake, which gives it a most beautiful view all about. The road was good to the portage. We rode around by the Station Hill, a station put there for government survey, and is a most beautiful place for a look-out, with its white sandy beach and clear water sparkling in the sunlight. During my stay on the island that was always a favorite place to go for a quiet, restful stroll, and our summer visitors never f...</comment>
      <origin>15132049</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1539" sha1="redd2tncpptsaqmr7hdqgxef1ais9l6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|200|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;The land is a little rolling going out to Font
Lake, which gives it a most beautiful view all
about. The road was good to the portage. We
rode around by the Station Hill, a station put there
for government survey, and is a most beautiful
place for a look-out, with its white sandy beach and
clear water sparkling in the sunlight. During my
stay on the island that was always a favorite place
to go for a quiet, restful stroll, and our summer
visitors never failed to visit Station Hill. There
Garden Island, with its lovely green trees, was a
pleasant view.

{{ph|VISITING THE LIGHT KEEPER AND HIS WIFE.}}

From there Mary and I turned our horses' heads
toward the point to visit the light keeper and his
wife. They were a dear old couple. They would
not let us go before we had tea with them. Their
children were all married but one daughter. She
was visiting with her sister, Mrs. E. Kanter, in De-
troit, and expected to remain there for the winter.
The old couple had a young boy named Anthony
Frazier living with them. Their home was a
marvel of neatness. Their name was Granger.
He had been light-keeper at Bois Blanc, near
Mackinac Island. His son had taken his place and
Mr. Lyman Granger had come to take charge of
Beaver Island harbor light, just erected the year
before. They took us in the tower to see the lamp
It was in beautiful order. Mrs. Granger seeing to
the polishing of the lamp and fixtures herself. A
few years later I was married and lived neighbor&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>redd2tncpptsaqmr7hdqgxef1ais9l6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/219</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847545</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132050</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:58:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;to them until they left the light-house. Then Mr. Peter McKinley was appointed keeper, where he re- mained nine years with his two young daughters, Effie and Mary. He lost his health soon after his appointment, but the girls took charge of the light house and were faithful to their charge during the whole time of their stay, finally resigning to go away.  {{ph|OUR SCHOOL TEACHERS.}}  There were always good schools at the island, having several teachers f...</comment>
      <origin>15132050</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1524" sha1="1nll8bgnihffod2rrpb8jr5b89tkht3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|201|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;to them until they left the light-house. Then Mr.
Peter McKinley was appointed keeper, where he re-
mained nine years with his two young daughters,
Effie and Mary. He lost his health soon after his
appointment, but the girls took charge of the light
house and were faithful to their charge during
the whole time of their stay, finally resigning to
go away.

{{ph|OUR SCHOOL TEACHERS.}}

There were always good schools at the island,
having several teachers from the city at different
times. I will mention a few of our city and island
teachers. The city teachers were Miss Ann E.
Granger, Detroit; Clara Holcomb, Fremont, Ohio;
Miss Belle and Hattie Buckland, Buffalo, N. Y.;
Miss J. Voas and Miss J. V. Wilkes, both of Buf-
falo, N. Y. Our island teachers were C. R. Wright,
Michael F. O'Donnell, Miss Effie McKinley, Miss
Sarah O'Malley, Miss Sarah J. Gibson, Miss Annie
Gibson, and many others. There were two brothers,
Charles and George Gillett, of Detroit, Mich. They
came several summers. Both were fine musicians.
They were sure to be on our first boat in the spring,
remaining until fall. One spring Charles came
alone. The younger brother had died during the
winter. We missed his pleasant face and sweet
music. When the other brother returned home that
fall he took a bride with him, marrying Miss Clara
Holcomb, of Fremont, Ohio. Life on the island.
was never dull. Our summer friends were pleas-
ant, friendly people, making the life happier by&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1nll8bgnihffod2rrpb8jr5b89tkht3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/55</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847546</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132052</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:58:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132052</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="827" sha1="d18zm6ivp5gbcltorln99j59hsdprp6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|37}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

What is your name?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Smiling'']: {{sc|He}}. I chose it, you know. Or don’t you like it?

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

We like it all right—but we have to have your real name. Have you a passport?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Confused'']: A passport? No, I have none. Or, rather, yes. I have something of the kind, but I had no idea the rules were strictly enforced here. What do you need papers for?

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[{{sc|Zinida}} ''and'' {{sc|Briquet}} ''look at each other''. {{sc|Zinida}} ''pushes the book aside''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Then we can’t take you. We cannot quarrel with the police, just on your account.

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

She is my wife. I hadn’t told you. She’s right. You might get hurt by a horse, or hurt yourself—or&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>d18zm6ivp5gbcltorln99j59hsdprp6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/220</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847547</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132053</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:59:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;their coming. Good books were sent us for winter reading, and many little tokens of remembrance were often sent us. We gladly hailed the first boat in the spring because it always brought some friends from the outside world.  {{ph|GOING TO MACKINAC ISLAND.}}  I was again on board the steamer Michigan. The same captain, the same crew; Jane, the cabin maid was there with her pleasant smile. There were several passengers from Green Bay going to Mackinac Isl...</comment>
      <origin>15132053</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1515" sha1="svuqpnygtusa3znzn06jju4zwe1mj93" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|202|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;their coming. Good books were sent us for winter
reading, and many little tokens of remembrance
were often sent us. We gladly hailed the first boat
in the spring because it always brought some friends
from the outside world.

{{ph|GOING TO MACKINAC ISLAND.}}

I was again on board the steamer Michigan.
The same captain, the same crew; Jane, the cabin
maid was there with her pleasant smile. There
were several passengers from Green Bay going to
Mackinac Island, for it was payment time. Among
the passengers was Mr. Scott, of Green Bay, who
once lived at Mackinac Island. Another was Mr.
Michael Dousman, he being another that had lived
many years on Mackinac Island. His home then
being in Milwaukee. When we landed at Mackinac
Island the entire beach from Mission House Point
to the place where the &quot;Grand&quot; now stands was
filled with a row of Indian wigwams.

There were Indians wearing their blankets and
the women dressed in bright gay colors with their
papooses strapped on their backs in their Indian
cradles. The cradles were trimmed with gay col-
ored ribbons. Dogs and children were all mixed
up together. Many squaws were pounding Indian
corn to make soup for their supper. The streets
near the water at Mackinac looked very bright in
their gay colors. Indian women and their children
were strolling and chatting together looking at the
bright colored goods, while the men were most of
the time walking about the streets wrapped in their&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>svuqpnygtusa3znzn06jju4zwe1mj93</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Author:Arthur Diósy</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
    <id>4847548</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132055</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:59:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TE(æ)A,ea.</username>
        <id>2831151</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{author |firstname=Arthur |lastname=Diósy |last-initial=Di |birthyear=1856 |deathyear=1923 |description=French writer on Japan; founder of the Japan Society }} ==Works== *“‘Yamato Damashi-i,’ the Spirit of Old Japan,” in ''Imperial and Asiatic Quarterly Review, [2]6''(2), 179–186 (1893) *“The Empire of the Risen Sun,” in ''The Twentieth Century, 1'', 4–22 (1895) *“Some Difficulties Encountered by Beginners in the Study of the Japanese Spoken Language,...&quot;</comment>
      <origin>15132055</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1521" sha1="l1a5xzx6jrn2y7axpi8icj4djfersxo" xml:space="preserve">{{author
|firstname=Arthur
|lastname=Diósy
|last-initial=Di
|birthyear=1856
|deathyear=1923
|description=French writer on Japan; founder of the Japan Society
}}
==Works==
*“‘Yamato Damashi-i,’ the Spirit of Old Japan,” in ''Imperial and Asiatic Quarterly Review, [2]6''(2), 179–186 (1893)
*“The Empire of the Risen Sun,” in ''The Twentieth Century, 1'', 4–22 (1895)
*“Some Difficulties Encountered by Beginners in the Study of the Japanese Spoken Language,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 3''(4–5), 81–113 (1897)
*''The New Far East'' (1898) {{esl|https://archive.org/details/cu31924023034477}}
*“On Japan,” in ''Great Thoughts, 8'', 152–? (1901)
*“Some Account of My Recent Visit to Japan,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 5''(2), 116–139 (1901)
*“Scenes in Japan,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 5''(3), 176–178 (1901)
*Introduction to [[Author:Tatui Baba|Tatui Baba]], ''An Elementary Grammar of the Japanese Language'' (3d ed., 1904)
*“In Memory of Will Adams, the First Englishman in Japan,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 6''(3), 325–353 (1905)
*“Yoshitsune, the Boy Hero of Japan,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 7''(1), 50–77 (1913)
*“Japan’s Part in the War, 1914–17,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 16'', 2–14 (1918)
{{PD-old}}
{{authority control}}</text>
      <sha1>l1a5xzx6jrn2y7axpi8icj4djfersxo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132545</id>
      <parentid>15132055</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:29:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>now linked to Wikidata</comment>
      <origin>15132545</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1489" sha1="kaxqewuk7xb0gi5cmmmzfjhgbf72hqz" xml:space="preserve">{{author
|firstname=Arthur
|lastname=Diósy
|last-initial=Di
|description=French writer on Japan; founder of the Japan Society
}}
==Works==
*“‘Yamato Damashi-i,’ the Spirit of Old Japan,” in ''Imperial and Asiatic Quarterly Review, [2]6''(2), 179–186 (1893)
*“The Empire of the Risen Sun,” in ''The Twentieth Century, 1'', 4–22 (1895)
*“Some Difficulties Encountered by Beginners in the Study of the Japanese Spoken Language,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 3''(4–5), 81–113 (1897)
*''The New Far East'' (1898) {{esl|https://archive.org/details/cu31924023034477}}
*“On Japan,” in ''Great Thoughts, 8'', 152–? (1901)
*“Some Account of My Recent Visit to Japan,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 5''(2), 116–139 (1901)
*“Scenes in Japan,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 5''(3), 176–178 (1901)
*Introduction to [[Author:Tatui Baba|Tatui Baba]], ''An Elementary Grammar of the Japanese Language'' (3d ed., 1904)
*“In Memory of Will Adams, the First Englishman in Japan,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 6''(3), 325–353 (1905)
*“Yoshitsune, the Boy Hero of Japan,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 7''(1), 50–77 (1913)
*“Japan’s Part in the War, 1914–17,” in ''Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 16'', 2–14 (1918)
{{PD-old}}
{{authority control}}</text>
      <sha1>kaxqewuk7xb0gi5cmmmzfjhgbf72hqz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/221</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847549</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132057</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:59:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;white blankets, they talking together in low tones. Perhaps telling about how their grandfathers had met for councils of war at this same place so many years before.  The island was just as beautiful as ever. It was early spring time when I saw it last with the straits full of floating ice. Now the grass was green and the trees were in autumn dress with the beautiful evergreens mixed in among the pretty colored leaves of maple and birch. The crisp autumn...</comment>
      <origin>15132057</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1486" sha1="8c7o05kjoptmqja6gr595m2086bc6xu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|203|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;white blankets, they talking together in low tones.
Perhaps telling about how their grandfathers had
met for councils of war at this same place so many
years before.

The island was just as beautiful as ever. It was
early spring time when I saw it last with the straits
full of floating ice. Now the grass was green and
the trees were in autumn dress with the beautiful
evergreens mixed in among the pretty colored
leaves of maple and birch. The crisp autumn air
gave new life after a hot summer. It had been a
busy season with summer visitors and a few had
lingered for payment time.

{{ph|MY RETURN TO BEAVER ISLAND.}}

My visit of a month was greatly enjoyed and I
returned to Beaver Island, entering school at once.
Our winter was a cold one, with heavy ice in the
lake, but the next spring we had the steamer Michi-
gan in our harbor on April first. There was still
drifting ice, fishing soon began and the summer
was a busy one, with many summer visitors. Our
island people were very happy not to be disturbed
any more by the Mormons or have their property
stolen.

There were several Irish families that came as
soon as the Mormons left, and more soon followed.
They bought the land and made themselves homes.
Among those that came was our genial friend Capt.
Roddy, so well known all over Northern Michigan.
He was a true sailor, owning several sailing crafts
at different times, also owning a very fine farm on&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8c7o05kjoptmqja6gr595m2086bc6xu</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/199</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847550</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132059</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T18:59:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132059</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1771" sha1="aepj8w3ror7p6slh6m591e3j429fyih" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|193|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;When she telephoned him on the day on which he had had his interview with Mrs. Lea, she made up her mind to hasten the marriage.

He came to see her the next afternoon full of his scheme of returning to his classes. Maggie noticed a difference.

&quot;You look as though you'd inherited a fortune or found a million dollars.&quot;

&quot;I have. My senses have come back to me. What do you think, Maggie? I've chucked all this foolishness with Tom Mason. My, I bet he's cursing mad. I'm getting down to brass tacks; went back to my classes this morning.&quot;

Surprise and something else altered her face.

&quot;What's the matter, you don't like it?&quot;

&quot;Yes—of course—only, but Peter, can't you see how hard all this is for me?&quot;

He got up, fiddled with the things on the mantel, turned about and faced her, the knuckles straining a little in the hand with which he grasped the back of a chair.

&quot;Just what do you mean, Maggie? What's hard?&quot;

She told him then that his going back to school naturally meant a postponement of their marriage. &quot;Oh, Peter, can't you see I want to be safe like other women, with a home and protection? I met Henderson, Henderson Neal, uptown Saturday—I didn't mean to tell you—but he glared at me. He made me shiver, I wished you were with me. I'm afraid of him, Peter, I'll never be safe till we're married.&quot;

His level voice answered her: &quot;I can see to your safety, Maggie; if Neal really frightens you, I can have him bound over to keep the peace. But we can't marry now, dear. I want to be able to take care of my—my wife. And if I go back to my classes, I'll need all the money I can lay hands on. I've lost so much time that I can't afford to do any outside work. I'll just live on what I've made with Mason. But&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>aepj8w3ror7p6slh6m591e3j429fyih</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/222</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847551</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132060</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:00:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;the island. He lived there a number of years. He died leaving his family very comfortable. Many of the people who came to the island bought land and took some of the houses the Mormons had left that were around the harbor and moved them to other locations, so that in a few years the island was changed in its appearance by the buildings being taken away from where they had been. Soon there were enough people to support a church, then a Catholic Priest cam...</comment>
      <origin>15132060</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1531" sha1="l1mz85j6kcga9n3i1l7wk7vxv3unoe4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|204|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the island. He lived there a number of years. He
died leaving his family very comfortable. Many of
the people who came to the island bought land and
took some of the houses the Mormons had left that
were around the harbor and moved them to other
locations, so that in a few years the island was
changed in its appearance by the buildings being
taken away from where they had been. Soon there
were enough people to support a church, then a
Catholic Priest came, and by subscription a church
was built, the Protestants helping. Rev. Father
Murray was the first priest stationed there. He was
a very social and kind hearted man. After him
came Rev. Father Gallagher, a young student just
from college. His former home was Philadelphia.
He made many improvements to the church build-
ing, devoting his whole time to his people. He was
a jolly social man and a great entertainer. He
passed away after a useful life of thirty-two years.
service. His remains were taken to his native city,
Philadelphia, for interment.

{{ph|THE GIBSON HOUSE.}}

Mr. Robert Gibson and wife came to the island
the spring of 1858, buying the property of the old.
Mormon printing office, converting it into a hotel
known ever since as &quot;The Gibson House.&quot; Its
doors have been open to guests up to the present.
Mr. Gibson died some years ago, since which time
his widow, Mrs. Julia Gibson, with her family.
have continued the business with success.

The &quot;King Strang Cottage&quot; has gone to ruin.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>l1mz85j6kcga9n3i1l7wk7vxv3unoe4</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/56</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847552</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132061</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:00:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132061</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1029" sha1="ikikhz1osde0ucyg1nayftcvzc2lja3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|38|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;do something. We don’t know you, you see. I personally don’t care, but out there, it’s different, you see. For me a corpse is just a corpse—and I don’t ask anything about him. It’s up to God or the Devil. But they—they’re too curious. Well, I suppose it’s necessary for order. I don’t know{{longdash}} Got a card?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Rubs his head, thinking'']: What shall I do? I have my card, but [''smiles''] you understand that I don’t want my name to be known.

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Some story, hey?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes, something like that. Why can’t you imagine that I have no name? Can’t I lose it as I might lose my hat? Or let someone else take it by mistake? When a stray dog comes to you, you don’t ask his name—you simply give him another. Let me be that dog. [''Laughing''] {{sc|He}}—the Dog!

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Why don’t you tell us your name, just the two of us. Nobody else need know it. Unless you should break your neck{{longdash}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ikikhz1osde0ucyg1nayftcvzc2lja3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/223</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847553</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132062</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:00:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;What little there was left of it after summer visi- tors had carried away pieces as relics took fire and burned.  Capt. Bundy with his gospel ship &quot;Glad Tid- ings&quot; often came to our harbor and sailing around other parts of the shores and islands in later years holding religious services among the people.  {{ph|THE NURSE'S STORY.}}  Soon after our return to the island after the going away of the Mormons I became acquainted with a lady that had come to the...</comment>
      <origin>15132062</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1520" sha1="kjqlg8r3t2id0imgaj7ueq814ji1fri" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|205|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;What little there was left of it after summer visi-
tors had carried away pieces as relics took fire
and burned.

Capt. Bundy with his gospel ship &quot;Glad Tid-
ings&quot; often came to our harbor and sailing around
other parts of the shores and islands in later years
holding religious services among the people.

{{ph|THE NURSE'S STORY.}}

Soon after our return to the island after the
going away of the Mormons I became acquainted
with a lady that had come to the island just a few
weeks before Strang was shot. She came to visit
her brother. She was a nurse. She told me what
a sad time it was to those people when their king
was shot. Some would not believe until they saw
him. Soon after Strang was carried home the
doctor sent a messenger to this lady to come and
take charge of the sick room, as no one else could
be found capable, all being in such an excited state
of mind. She said, &quot;When I reached Strang's home
I found him resting under an opiate. His wounds.
had been dressed. The doctor was sitting beside
the bed. I knew him well and he motioned me to
a seat. I went across the hall into another room.
hearing the sounds of crying and sobbing. There
I saw the four wives with several neighbor women
all in a sorrowful state of mind. There was one
that sat by herself by an open window looking out
over the water. She was silent and quiet with a
far away look in her eyes. I motioned to the rest
to be quiet, as I feared it would disturb the sick&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>kjqlg8r3t2id0imgaj7ueq814ji1fri</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/224</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847554</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132063</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:01:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;man. I went close and spoke to the quiet woman. She was the one called &quot;Douglas,&quot; the favorite wife. Strang often called her Charley. I told her why I had come, that I had been sent for. She roused herself up, saying, &quot;Oh yes, now I remem- ber some one is needed in the sick room.&quot; She seemed to be almost in a dream. I said to her, &quot;This may not be so bad. He may get well.&quot; She shook her head, her lips quivered, then she spoke in low tones to me, saying,...</comment>
      <origin>15132063</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1623" sha1="0k6m7hd5nvio84g5zbihtyk0bgxaxqa" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|206|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;man. I went close and spoke to the quiet woman.
She was the one called &quot;Douglas,&quot; the favorite
wife. Strang often called her Charley. I told her
why I had come, that I had been sent for. She
roused herself up, saying, &quot;Oh yes, now I remem-
ber some one is needed in the sick room.&quot; She
seemed to be almost in a dream. I said to her, &quot;This
may not be so bad. He may get well.&quot; She
shook her head, her lips quivered, then she spoke
in low tones to me, saying, &quot;No, he says himself he
can't get well and he wants the doctor to take him.
away from the island.&quot; She stopped a moment and
then went on, &quot;He wants to go to his wife in Wis-
consin. He says he must go. The doctor told him
he had better not go, but his mind is made up to
go. And I think it is best, but the rest don't think
so,&quot; meaning the other three women. She told me
where I could find everything I needed. There were
soon large crowds gathering about the house, wo-
men were wringing their hands and sobbing aloud.
The quiet woman went out among them, telling
them they must be quiet and not disturb the sick
man, but they did not seem to know what she said.
They acted as if they were dazed. The doctor.
went out and explained to them that they must be
quiet. Some of them went away, others sat down
on the grass, sobbing quietly, seeming almost heart-
broken. I was in the room when Strang awoke.
The doctor was near him. The first words he spoke
were, &quot;Doctor can I go? Will a boat soon come to
take me home to my wife?&quot; His voice was strong.
The doctor answered, &quot;We will think about this&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0k6m7hd5nvio84g5zbihtyk0bgxaxqa</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/225</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847555</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132064</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:01:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;later.&quot; &quot;No doctor I must go, I cannot die here on the island. I must go to my wife and children. I must see her before I die. I can't get well, I know it, and I know she will forgive me.&quot; His voice was pleading. It was hard for the doctor to know just what to do or say to him. I soon went to him with some drink. He looked straight in my face saying, &quot;Tell the doctor I must go home to my wife and children. I am going to die.&quot; Then after a few moments of...</comment>
      <origin>15132064</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1619" sha1="lggfdflhpxc4kdqdsnd7nhpri1f33pp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|207|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;later.&quot; &quot;No doctor I must go, I cannot die here
on the island. I must go to my wife and children.
I must see her before I die. I can't get well, I
know it, and I know she will forgive me.&quot; His
voice was pleading. It was hard for the doctor to
know just what to do or say to him. I soon went
to him with some drink. He looked straight in
my face saying, &quot;Tell the doctor I must go home to
my wife and children. I am going to die.&quot; Then
after a few moments of quietness he exclaimed, &quot;If
I had only heeded her counsel this would not have
happened.&quot; His pleadings never ceased until the
doctor said. &quot;Yes. I will take you.&quot; Such a look of
joy came over his face and the great tears started
from his eyes. The quiet woman came and took
his hand and wiped away the tears, but he seemed
not to see her. He repeated several times, &quot;I am
going home to Mary.&quot; His eyes had a far away
look and his mind was not dwelling on the daily
cares, and he took no interest in anything about the
house. He never mentioned anything about the
business of the temple, as his only desire was to live
until he reached his wife. This quiet woman that
seemed so much to him before was nothing to him
now. Her sorrow was great but she bore it quietly
and helped in the preparations to make him com-
fortable on his journey, knowing she would never
see him again in this life. Four days after he was
wounded he was carried on board the steamer.
The scene was a sorrowful one; everybody came
to see their King who had taught them no harm
could come to him. Strang was calm and quiet&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lggfdflhpxc4kdqdsnd7nhpri1f33pp</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/200</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847556</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132065</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:01:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132065</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1133" sha1="8z8y2b8fb3n9g3icckg6958sf8r4ds0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|194|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;that will leave me pretty poor. You see, I've got to have five hundred dollars cold for my instruments.&quot;

She looked at him speechless, her gray eyes going black in the pale gold of her face, her hands submissively folded.

He took out his handkerchief and mopped his forehead. &quot;If you don't mind, Maggie, I think we'd better discuss this later. Suppose we think it over for two or three days, and then we'll settle upon something.&quot; His voice, infinitely gentle, infinitely sorry for her, trailed off into silence.

She said listlessly: &quot;I think I'll go to New York for a while. I think I'd like to be with my mother.&quot;

He ignored the pathos of this. &quot;That would be fine. How soon do you want to go?&quot;

&quot;To-morrow,&quot; she told him. &quot;You needn't come to the station with me, Peter, you'd hardly have time to make it. I won't take much, so I can manage.&quot;

He felt himself a cad for agreeing with her. &quot;It's too bad I have to go now, but I've got to read over some notes with Morgan. So this is good-by for the present. Aren't you going to kiss me, Maggie?&quot;

She held up her face for her dutiful kiss.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8z8y2b8fb3n9g3icckg6958sf8r4ds0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/226</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847557</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132066</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:02:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;through it all, for to him they only seemed as passing friends. His thoughts were not of earth and his lips moved often as if in prayer. He stood. the journey well, and the kind and loving wife freely forgave him as he died in her arms. He suffered much, but bore it bravely, seeming per- fectly satisfied to be at home with his true wife.  {{ph|MARRIED AND KEEPING HOUSE.}}  The light-keeper Mr. Granger, had given up his position as a keeper, Mr. Peter McK...</comment>
      <origin>15132066</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1495" sha1="0igwta5qn8tomgb6xjzjjh7iwbf39ux" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|208|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;through it all, for to him they only seemed as
passing friends. His thoughts were not of earth
and his lips moved often as if in prayer. He stood.
the journey well, and the kind and loving wife
freely forgave him as he died in her arms. He
suffered much, but bore it bravely, seeming per-
fectly satisfied to be at home with his true wife.

{{ph|MARRIED AND KEEPING HOUSE.}}

The light-keeper Mr. Granger, had given up
his position as a keeper, Mr. Peter McKinley suc-
ceeding him. I was now married to Mr. Van Riper
and living very near the light-house. My husband.
had come from Detroit for his health. After we
were married he started a large cooper shop at the
Point, employing several men in the summer season.
My father had now moved into the &quot;Strang House,&quot;
as the King's house was always called by the island-
ers. Up to this time no one had ever lived in it
since the King's death. Somehow no one cared to
live in it, but father and mother found it very com-
fortable and pleasant. There were more people.
coming to the island all the time to settle, buying
farms. The &quot;Johnson House&quot; was now taken down.
and moved on some farm. All the houses between
Strang's house and Enoch had been taken down.
We found the light-keeper and his daughters very
kind neighbors. The two girls and myself were like
sisters as time went on.

There was no doctor at that time on the island.
When anything serious happened the people had a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0igwta5qn8tomgb6xjzjjh7iwbf39ux</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/57</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847558</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132067</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:02:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132067</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="919" sha1="e37azi6wxgpypr0tectj1tos89ll37e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|39}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

['Hesitates'']: Honestly? [{{sc|Zinida}} ''shrugs her shoulders''.]

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Where people are honest, their word is good. One sees you come from ''out there''.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

All right. But please, don’t be surprised. [''Gives'' {{sc|Zinida}} ''his card. She looks at it, then hands it to'' {{sc|Briquet}}, ''then both look at HE''.]

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

If it is true, sir, that you are really what is written here{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

For heaven’s sake—for heaven’s sake—this does not exist, but was lost long ago; it is just a check for an old hat. I pray you to forget it, as I have. I am {{sc|He}} Who Gets Slapped—nothing else. [''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

I beg your pardon, sir, but I must ask you again, 1 must humbly ask you—are you not drunk, sir? There is something in your eye—something{{longdash}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>e37azi6wxgpypr0tectj1tos89ll37e</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132068</id>
      <parentid>15132067</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:03:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15132068</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="920" sha1="edppkqca4grf9pln7oulmpdi328a2wx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|39}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Hesitates'']: Honestly? [{{sc|Zinida}} ''shrugs her shoulders''.]

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Where people are honest, their word is good. One sees you come from ''out there''.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

All right. But please, don’t be surprised. [''Gives'' {{sc|Zinida}} ''his card. She looks at it, then hands it to'' {{sc|Briquet}}, ''then both look at HE''.]

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

If it is true, sir, that you are really what is written here{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

For heaven’s sake—for heaven’s sake—this does not exist, but was lost long ago; it is just a check for an old hat. I pray you to forget it, as I have. I am {{sc|He}} Who Gets Slapped—nothing else. [''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

I beg your pardon, sir, but I must ask you again, 1 must humbly ask you—are you not drunk, sir? There is something in your eye—something{{longdash}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>edppkqca4grf9pln7oulmpdi328a2wx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/227</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847559</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132069</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:03:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;doctor come from Mackinac Island and later from Charlevoix.  Our mails came by ice in winter from Mackinac Island, a distance of fifty miles. When our mail carrier came with the pouches full we were like a hungry lot of people, as often we were without mail for a month or six weeks. Work was laid. aside until the letters and papers were read, then for several days news was discussed among us. Good news was enjoyed by everybody and sad news was sadness fo...</comment>
      <origin>15132069</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1447" sha1="hzkb6wm1ayqye74v7w8oxv3u4tv87k5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|209|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;doctor come from Mackinac Island and later from
Charlevoix.

Our mails came by ice in winter from Mackinac
Island, a distance of fifty miles. When our mail
carrier came with the pouches full we were like a
hungry lot of people, as often we were without
mail for a month or six weeks. Work was laid.
aside until the letters and papers were read, then
for several days news was discussed among us.
Good news was enjoyed by everybody and sad news
was sadness for all. In later years our mail route.
was changed in winter to Cross Village, distant
about twenty-five miles. Both Indians and white
men were engaged in carrying it, using dogs with
sleds as the mail grew heavier, with more inhabi-
tants coming. Winter was the time for social
amusements. We usually had fine ice for skating,
which was enjoyed by both old and young, women
as well as men.

The merchants laid in a good stock of everything
necessary in the fall, but many times people ran
short of provisions, then other neighbors divided.
with them.

{{ph|TRAVELLING BY WATER.}}

In the sixties Charlevoix people came to Beaver
Island to do much of their trading, going back and
forth in small boats. All travelling had to be done
by water. People felt no fear. We were going
from island to island in summer time. In those
days at Little Traverse, now Harbor Springs, there
were just a few white settlers, with one or two&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hzkb6wm1ayqye74v7w8oxv3u4tv87k5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/58</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847560</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132071</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:04:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132071</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="900" sha1="gro6d2r0j10ye67bza0e4wx3pfiw3pg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|40|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No, no. I am He, Who Gets Slapped. Since when do you speak to me like this, Papa Briquet? You offend me.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

After all, it’s his business, Briquet. [''She hides the card''.] Truly you are a strange man. [''Smiles''.] And you have already noticed that Bezano is in love with the horse-girl? And that I love my Briquet, did you notice that, too?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Also smiling'']: Oh, yes. You adore him.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

I adore him. Now go with him, Briquet, show him the ring and the stables—I have something to write.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes, yes, please. I am so happy. At last you have taken me, haven’t you? It is true—you’re not joking. The circus, the tan-bark, the ring in which I shall run getting my slaps. Yes, yes, Briquet, let’s go. Until I feel the sawdust under my feet, I shall not believe it.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gro6d2r0j10ye67bza0e4wx3pfiw3pg</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/228</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847561</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132075</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:05:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;stores. In the early fifties Mr. Richard Cooper started a store and another was kept by the &quot;Wen- dells&quot; of Mackinac Island. Many Mackinac Island people took their families every summer for several years to the Gull islands, that being a fine fishing ground. Thousands of dollars worth of fish were caught there. Beaver Harbor was then the center for trade. Near to reach. &quot;The boats were our carriages, the wind our steeds.&quot; Sometimes there were accidents a...</comment>
      <origin>15132075</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1556" sha1="8tqkqigz90utqw7aci15ey6y5ubpie2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|210|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;stores. In the early fifties Mr. Richard Cooper
started a store and another was kept by the &quot;Wen-
dells&quot; of Mackinac Island. Many Mackinac Island
people took their families every summer for several
years to the Gull islands, that being a fine fishing
ground. Thousands of dollars worth of fish were
caught there. Beaver Harbor was then the center
for trade. Near to reach. &quot;The boats were our
carriages, the wind our steeds.&quot; Sometimes there
were accidents and many were drowned, still people
had to live, and their work was on the water most
of the time.

The winter of 1861 my husband and I went to
Milwaukee to spend the winter. Mr. C. R. Wright
was elected to the State Legislature at Lansing that
winter, his family spending the winter in Fairport,
Ohio. We all returned to the island in springtime.
My parents had now gone back to Traverse City
to live. Frank, my adopted brother, had enlisted
as a drummer boy at the beginning of the Civil War.

{{ph|OUR INDIAN SCHOOL AT GARDEN ISLAND.}}

In July of 1862 my husband was appointed as a
Government school teacher to the Indians at Gar-
den Island. The school was a large one as there
was a large band of Indians. Our school continued
for two years, then was discontinued for several
years before another teacher was sent among them.
That two years was a busy life for us both. The
Government furnished seeds of all kinds for their
gardens, flower seeds as well to beautify their homes.
We were expected to teach them how to plant and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8tqkqigz90utqw7aci15ey6y5ubpie2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Author:Eugenio Zanoni Volpicelli</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
    <id>4847562</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132078</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:07:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TE(æ)A,ea.</username>
        <id>2831151</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{author |firstname=Eugenio Zanoni |lastname=Volpicelli |last-initial=Vo |birthyear=1853 |deathyear=1936 |description=Italian diplomat }} ==Works== *''The China-Japan War'' (1896) {{esl|https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/008641628}} {{PD-US|1936}} {{authority control}}&quot;</comment>
      <origin>15132078</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="272" sha1="qug5kg58t0lkifz9992ryjyjy8gf02a" xml:space="preserve">{{author
|firstname=Eugenio Zanoni
|lastname=Volpicelli
|last-initial=Vo
|birthyear=1853
|deathyear=1936
|description=Italian diplomat
}}
==Works==
*''The China-Japan War'' (1896) {{esl|https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/008641628}}
{{PD-US|1936}}
{{authority control}}</text>
      <sha1>qug5kg58t0lkifz9992ryjyjy8gf02a</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132544</id>
      <parentid>15132078</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:28:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>now at Wikidata</comment>
      <origin>15132544</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="240" sha1="cll0ilcsdivzs40ro40mhxcv6lf2k1d" xml:space="preserve">{{author
|firstname=Eugenio Zanoni
|lastname=Volpicelli
|last-initial=Vo
|description=Italian diplomat
}}
==Works==
*''The China-Japan War'' (1896) {{esl|https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/008641628}}
{{PD-US|1936}}
{{authority control}}</text>
      <sha1>cll0ilcsdivzs40ro40mhxcv6lf2k1d</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>NLRB v. Boeing Co./Dissent Burger</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847563</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132079</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:08:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JoeSolo22</username>
        <id>3028097</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title = [[../]]  | author = Warren Burger  | section =   | previous =   | next =   | year = 1973  | portal = Supreme Court of the United States  | wikipedia =   | notes =  }}  {{USSCcase2     |dissent_author1 = Burger     |dissent_author2 = Douglas     }} &lt;div class='courtopinion'&gt; '''[p78]''' MR. CHIEF JUSTICE BURGER, dissenting.   It is odd, to say the least, to find a union urging on us severe limitations on NLRB authority, and telling us that state courts...&quot;</comment>
      <origin>15132079</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2044" sha1="0j0w2asa31jzjynwzbeo56jdizt2qcg" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title = [[../]]
 | author = Warren Burger
 | section = 
 | previous = 
 | next = 
 | year = 1973
 | portal = Supreme Court of the United States
 | wikipedia = 
 | notes = 
}}
 {{USSCcase2
    |dissent_author1 = Burger
    |dissent_author2 = Douglas
    }}
&lt;div class='courtopinion'&gt;
'''[p78]''' MR. CHIEF JUSTICE BURGER, dissenting.


It is odd, to say the least, to find a union urging on us severe limitations on NLRB authority, and telling us that state courts are the proper forum to resolve questions regarding the reasonableness of fines imposed on workers for violation of union rules. For years, there has been unrelenting union opposition to state court &quot;intervention&quot; into industrial disputes and union activities. We have been told countless times that the &quot;expertise&quot; of the Labor Board, based on its overview and intimate familiarity with labor problems, is essential in this area.

A union must, of course, have some disciplinary powers or it would disintegrate. However, the power to discipline can easily turn from a means of enforcing valid '''[p79]''' rules to an oppressive and coercive device of retribution, a weapon which, when used to extremes, may deprive a working man of his very means of sustenance. Whether a particular fine is required in a particular situation involves a weighing of the delicate balance of relations between the employers, employees, and the union involved. Such an intimate knowledge of labor relations has consistently been ascribed to the Board, often by the unions. It is the Board that deals with such matters on a daily basis. It is the Board that has the jurisdiction and experience to devise and employ national standards to govern union conduct; there are valid reasons for essential uniformity and consistency in the matters of fines. To isolate this sensitive subject and thrust it on the state courts is contrary to the entire history of the federal labor statutes and opens the door to a wide disparity of fines for the same conduct in different States.

&lt;/div&gt;
__NOTOC__</text>
      <sha1>0j0w2asa31jzjynwzbeo56jdizt2qcg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132080</id>
      <parentid>15132079</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:08:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JoeSolo22</username>
        <id>3028097</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132080</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2051" sha1="2skbx0t4k630wlwhafca7c4heli8d8k" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title = [[../]]
 | author = Warren Burger
 | section = Dissent
 | previous = 
 | next = 
 | year = 1973
 | portal = Supreme Court of the United States
 | wikipedia = 
 | notes = 
}}
 {{USSCcase2
    |dissent_author1 = Burger
    |dissent_author2 = Douglas
    }}
&lt;div class='courtopinion'&gt;
'''[p78]''' MR. CHIEF JUSTICE BURGER, dissenting.


It is odd, to say the least, to find a union urging on us severe limitations on NLRB authority, and telling us that state courts are the proper forum to resolve questions regarding the reasonableness of fines imposed on workers for violation of union rules. For years, there has been unrelenting union opposition to state court &quot;intervention&quot; into industrial disputes and union activities. We have been told countless times that the &quot;expertise&quot; of the Labor Board, based on its overview and intimate familiarity with labor problems, is essential in this area.

A union must, of course, have some disciplinary powers or it would disintegrate. However, the power to discipline can easily turn from a means of enforcing valid '''[p79]''' rules to an oppressive and coercive device of retribution, a weapon which, when used to extremes, may deprive a working man of his very means of sustenance. Whether a particular fine is required in a particular situation involves a weighing of the delicate balance of relations between the employers, employees, and the union involved. Such an intimate knowledge of labor relations has consistently been ascribed to the Board, often by the unions. It is the Board that deals with such matters on a daily basis. It is the Board that has the jurisdiction and experience to devise and employ national standards to govern union conduct; there are valid reasons for essential uniformity and consistency in the matters of fines. To isolate this sensitive subject and thrust it on the state courts is contrary to the entire history of the federal labor statutes and opens the door to a wide disparity of fines for the same conduct in different States.

&lt;/div&gt;
__NOTOC__</text>
      <sha1>2skbx0t4k630wlwhafca7c4heli8d8k</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/201</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847564</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132085</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:10:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132085</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1658" sha1="4t1ljqjnfi6ppn99hgagrkzc8vpl8io" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|195|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|Chapter XXIV}}
{{dropcap|J}}{{uc|oanna}} stood on the steps of the New York Public Library, gazing at the paralysis of traffic which at the bidding of an autocratic policeman had fallen on the massed ranks of vehicles. Subconsciously she thought of a German story, &quot;Germelshausen,&quot; in which all the life of the village suddenly ceased, leaving the people statues of flesh and blood. Fifth Avenue coming to life again, she fell quite consciously to wondering where she could get a good dinner. All about her flashed the lights of restaurants, but she was not sure of their reception of colored patrons and being in a slightly irritable mood, she wanted consciously to spare herself any contact which would be more annoying. She needed more than the cup of chocolate and sandwich which she might easily have had at one of the two drug stores near by. And of course she could get something expensive, but satisfying, in the station which towered not far away. But of late the restaurant management in that particular station had shown a tendency to place its colored patrons in remote and isolated corners.

Joanna had spent the morning shopping. In one of the more exclusive stores on Forty-fourth Street she had asked to look at coats. The saleswoman had been very pleasant, but she had seated Joanna well in the rear of the store quite away from the lighted front windows and the mirrors which were so adjusted as to give all possible views of the figure.

Joanna had not noticed this at first but when she did she proposed going toward the front of the store &quot;where there was more light.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{fine|195}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4t1ljqjnfi6ppn99hgagrkzc8vpl8io</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132086</id>
      <parentid>15132085</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:10:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132086</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1620" sha1="44dsie2iuwb7xt15hbebfk61adft9o1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|Chapter XXIV}}
{{dropcap|J}}{{uc|oanna}} stood on the steps of the New York Public Library, gazing at the paralysis of traffic which at the bidding of an autocratic policeman had fallen on the massed ranks of vehicles. Subconsciously she thought of a German story, &quot;Germelshausen,&quot; in which all the life of the village suddenly ceased, leaving the people statues of flesh and blood. Fifth Avenue coming to life again, she fell quite consciously to wondering where she could get a good dinner. All about her flashed the lights of restaurants, but she was not sure of their reception of colored patrons and being in a slightly irritable mood, she wanted consciously to spare herself any contact which would be more annoying. She needed more than the cup of chocolate and sandwich which she might easily have had at one of the two drug stores near by. And of course she could get something expensive, but satisfying, in the station which towered not far away. But of late the restaurant management in that particular station had shown a tendency to place its colored patrons in remote and isolated corners.

Joanna had spent the morning shopping. In one of the more exclusive stores on Forty-fourth Street she had asked to look at coats. The saleswoman had been very pleasant, but she had seated Joanna well in the rear of the store quite away from the lighted front windows and the mirrors which were so adjusted as to give all possible views of the figure.

Joanna had not noticed this at first but when she did she proposed going toward the front of the store &quot;where there was more light.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|{{fine|195}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>44dsie2iuwb7xt15hbebfk61adft9o1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/177</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847565</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132087</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:11:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;one time everybody feared they were coming to Traverse City to drive the Gentiles away. Mr. Hannah set watchmen to guard the place by night for a long time, and the fishermen were more un- safe than ever, and were making an appeal to the Government for protection.  {{ph|THE KILLING OF &quot;KING STRANG.&quot;}}  I must now hurry over many things that hap- pened while at Traverse City. In June of 1856 news came that &quot;King Strang&quot; had been shot by his own people. It...</comment>
      <origin>15132087</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1518" sha1="br27702yh7vx71l9050csccujmc0qk9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|161|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;one time everybody feared they were coming to
Traverse City to drive the Gentiles away. Mr.
Hannah set watchmen to guard the place by night
for a long time, and the fishermen were more un-
safe than ever, and were making an appeal to the
Government for protection.

{{ph|THE KILLING OF &quot;KING STRANG.&quot;}}

I must now hurry over many things that hap-
pened while at Traverse City. In June of 1856
news came that &quot;King Strang&quot; had been shot by
his own people. It was a long time before we could
get the particulars.

The fishermen and merchants had now made a
strong appeal to the government asking for pro-
tection, and this time Strang could not make his
plea strong enough to prevent the coming of the
U. S. steamer Michigan with officers to make an
investigation of the matter. The king met the
steamer at Mackinac Island, hoping to gain a little
more time to prevent any arrests of his people. The
U. S. steamer proceeded to Beaver Island, landing
at the village dock in the harbor. King Strang took
passage on her back to the island, and as soon as
landing he immediately went to his home not far
distant from the dock. He was soon sent for by
the officers, as they wished to consult with him about
the affair. He started for the steamer, and when
about half way on the dock two men stepped from
behind a pile of cordwood and both fired their re-
volvers at once, both bullets taking effect. He was
shot through the back twice, but did not die until&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>br27702yh7vx71l9050csccujmc0qk9</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/178</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847566</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132088</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:12:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;eleven days after. He knew his last hours had. come, and he begged to be taken to his wife Mary, his true wife. The women he had with him now were no comfort to him. Dr. McCulloch dressed. the wounds and told him he feared the trip would be too much for him, that he might die on the way. He said, &quot;No, no, take me home to Mary, my true wife. I cannot die here, doctor. I want to die with my wife and children. Take me to Mary, I know she will forgive me.&quot; D...</comment>
      <origin>15132088</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1562" sha1="31u28rfnovimim3np5r48tk81cysbdd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|162|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;eleven days after. He knew his last hours had.
come, and he begged to be taken to his wife Mary,
his true wife. The women he had with him now
were no comfort to him. Dr. McCulloch dressed.
the wounds and told him he feared the trip would
be too much for him, that he might die on the way.
He said, &quot;No, no, take me home to Mary, my true
wife. I cannot die here, doctor. I want to die with
my wife and children. Take me to Mary, I know
she will forgive me.&quot; Dr. McCulloch had him put
on a mattress, carried on board a steamboat and
taken to his wife's home in Wisconsin. The death
of Strang was a terrible blow to most of his people,
but a relief to those that were suffering such per-
secutions from him. One woman at Bower's Har-
bor expressed great joy when she heard it, but I
could not understand why she should be glad of any
one's death. She said, &quot;I will tell you just a little
of what the king made me suffer.&quot;

{{ph|THE STORY MRS. H{{bar|2}} TOLD ME.}}

I was born and raised in a dear little nook in
York state. There were four girls in our family,
my oldest sister being deaf and dumb. After a
time she and sister next to her married, then my-
self and youngest sister were left with father and
mother. A young man came to our village to teach
the village school. We became acquainted and in
time were married. Mr. H{{bar|2}} built us a nice
little home and we settled down to a very happy
life. Our home was just a short distance from my
parents. My deaf sister was married to a deaf&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>31u28rfnovimim3np5r48tk81cysbdd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132089</id>
      <parentid>15132088</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:12:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132089</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1584" sha1="ghedxkt32ixag02zkr2pzj8v0pyipyz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|162|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;eleven days after. He knew his last hours had.
come, and he begged to be taken to his wife Mary,
his true wife. The women he had with him now
were no comfort to him. Dr. McCulloch dressed.
the wounds and told him he feared the trip would
be too much for him, that he might die on the way.
He said, &quot;No, no, take me home to Mary, my true
wife. I cannot die here, doctor. I want to die with
my wife and children. Take me to Mary, I know
she will forgive me.&quot; Dr. McCulloch had him put
on a mattress, carried on board a steamboat and
taken to his wife's home in Wisconsin. The death
of Strang was a terrible blow to most of his people,
but a relief to those that were suffering such per-
secutions from him. One woman at Bower's Har-
bor expressed great joy when she heard it, but I
could not understand why she should be glad of any
one's death. She said, &quot;I will tell you just a little
of what the king made me suffer.&quot;

{{ph|THE STORY MRS. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} TOLD ME.}}

I was born and raised in a dear little nook in
York state. There were four girls in our family,
my oldest sister being deaf and dumb. After a
time she and sister next to her married, then my-
self and youngest sister were left with father and
mother. A young man came to our village to teach
the village school. We became acquainted and in
time were married. Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} built us a nice
little home and we settled down to a very happy
life. Our home was just a short distance from my
parents. My deaf sister was married to a deaf&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ghedxkt32ixag02zkr2pzj8v0pyipyz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/179</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847567</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132091</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:13:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;and dumb man. He had a high temper and did not treat sister Nellie very kindly. After awhile Nellie came home to live with our parents, bringing her little twin babies with her. We all helped to care for them and then John, her husband, seemed more kind. Five years rolled around, when one day three Mormon elders came to our village, going around from house to house talking their doctrine, calling themselves Latter Day Saints. They visited us. My mother b...</comment>
      <origin>15132091</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1647" sha1="fgzc5t5t7ajatfx1qo1hksw7puqyrq4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|163|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and dumb man. He had a high temper and did not
treat sister Nellie very kindly. After awhile Nellie
came home to live with our parents, bringing her
little twin babies with her. We all helped to care
for them and then John, her husband, seemed more
kind. Five years rolled around, when one day three
Mormon elders came to our village, going around
from house to house talking their doctrine, calling
themselves Latter Day Saints. They visited us.
My mother being in, she seemed greatly taken with
their talk. They came again in a few days. Mr.
{{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} was out in the fields, and when I told them
they said they would go out and find him. They
did so and remained with us for supper, staying
the evening; then father came over to hear them
talk. One of the men was a fluent talker. He kept
the attention of all when speaking. I felt a great
dread; I knew not why. Then they held services
in our little church in the evenings, which contin-
ued a week. Many were greatly excited. My par-
ents and younger sister, Sarah, my husband and a
number of our neighbors. The men left us promis-
ing to come again soon, when they hoped many
would join their religion. I could see as the days.
went by Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} and my people, with others,
were ready to follow these men.

I said all I could to discourage them, but it
was of no use, I could do nothing. Preparations
were made to leave. Our home was sold at a sac-
rifice and father's the same. At the time set the
three elders came again, holding more meetings.
Our goods were packed; also father's and mother's,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fgzc5t5t7ajatfx1qo1hksw7puqyrq4</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/180</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847568</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132093</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:14:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;and as Nellie and the babies could not be left, we took them with us. One pleasant day in August we bade farewell to our dear old home and kind. good neighbors I had known my lifetime. And with many tears of sorrow and regret on my part we started for the Promised Land.  After a tedious trip we reached &quot;Beaver Island.&quot; I need not try to tell how disappointed many of us. were, as everything was so different from what it had been represented to us. The isl...</comment>
      <origin>15132093</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1654" sha1="snuj3hpiikz4n0jxsqwt2254m8tr7li" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|164|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and as Nellie and the babies could not be left, we
took them with us. One pleasant day in August
we bade farewell to our dear old home and kind.
good neighbors I had known my lifetime. And with
many tears of sorrow and regret on my part we
started for the Promised Land.

After a tedious trip we reached &quot;Beaver Island.&quot;
I need not try to tell how disappointed many of us.
were, as everything was so different from what it
had been represented to us. The island itself was
very beautiful, just as nature had made it. But to
us that had come from a settled country with farms
all cultivated, it was a great change. I saw Mr.
{{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} was very low-spirited, and knowing we must
make the best of it, I tried to cheer him, saying,
&quot;Now we will soon make us another home, and if
all is well we shall soon be as happy as we were
before. But you know I can never enjoy this new
doctrine.&quot; We also found when reaching the
island that the bright talking elder was &quot;King
Strange&quot; himself, and he well knew I had no sym-
pathy or belief in his teachings. However, Strang
gave us our choice of a building spot and we chose
as pleasant a place as possible, with father and mo-
ther near us, just a short distance from the pretty
little Font Lake. We tried to make our home like.
the one we had left behind. I went to work with
a will helping Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} to build the new home.
That first winter I never like to think about, the
people suffered so much, but were always patient,
never complaining. The next spring I helped to
make our garden, also our flower garden, putting&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>snuj3hpiikz4n0jxsqwt2254m8tr7li</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/181</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847569</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132096</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:15:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;in the seeds I had brought from the old home. That first winter we endured hunger and cold, but I tried to bear it without complaint. I kept the best for my husband to eat and many times went supperless to bed, fearing there would not be enough for his breakfast, as he had to be out chopping wood dur- ing the day. A tenth part of our income must be given to the King, and sometimes there was little. left, as there was always extras to help other ex- pense...</comment>
      <origin>15132096</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1627" sha1="7updkg745zts9voi6o5epbi7i154nic" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|165|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;in the seeds I had brought from the old home. That
first winter we endured hunger and cold, but I tried
to bear it without complaint. I kept the best for my
husband to eat and many times went supperless to
bed, fearing there would not be enough for his
breakfast, as he had to be out chopping wood dur-
ing the day. A tenth part of our income must be
given to the King, and sometimes there was little.
left, as there was always extras to help other ex-
penses. We had plenty of clothing when we came,
but in a few months we had divided most of it with
our suffering neighbors. With hard work and
scanty food, and great anxiety about Nellie's sick
babies, it began to tell on my health. I scarcely
knew a care in the old home, now it all seemed to
fall on me. When spring came I was much run
down in health. When Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} would some-
times blame himself I would cheer him up by tell-
ing him, &quot;Never mind, we have each other, and to-
gether we can endure almost anything.&quot; We dared.
not talk much to others that we felt any disappoint-
ment. We soon found the King exacted perfect
obedience from his people. I knew in my heart
he did not like me because he could not win me over
to his belief.

The third year we began to be a little more com-
fortable, and I found a little more time to rest. I
had been so busy with hard work trying to make our
home bright and cheerful I had not noticed what was
going on at the Tabernacle meetings. I soon began
to hear rumors how the king was preaching poly-
gamy. I felt worried and I could see that other&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7updkg745zts9voi6o5epbi7i154nic</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/182</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847570</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132098</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:15:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;women were the same, though we dared not talk much together about the King's affairs. I spoke with my husband about it and he said, &quot;Have no fears. Strang can never make me bring another wife into our home.&quot; Soon a friend told me she feared our husbands might be forced to obey the law that the King had made. She was an elder's wife. She then told me my husband was soon to be ordained as an elder. Again I spoke to my husband about my fears. He took me in...</comment>
      <origin>15132098</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1639" sha1="eled7kz3f3ysjjqxa1mqtuh38lexovp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|166|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;women were the same, though we dared not talk
much together about the King's affairs. I spoke with
my husband about it and he said, &quot;Have no fears.
Strang can never make me bring another wife
into our home.&quot; Soon a friend told me she feared
our husbands might be forced to obey the law that
the King had made. She was an elder's wife. She
then told me my husband was soon to be ordained as
an elder. Again I spoke to my husband about my
fears. He took me in his arms, saying. &quot;Have no
fears Mary. We have worked and suffered together
and do I not know how you have endured hunger
and cold and gave up our pleasant home to come
here with me? I will never desert you or treat you
so mean as to bring another into our home.&quot; The
King has urged me to do so, but I told him I could.
not obey that command. In a few days several
women came asking me to join them in voting down
Strang's new law. I said to them, &quot;No, I dare not
oppose that man. I feel such a dreadful fear of
him.&quot; In a day or two they came again, saying,
&quot;Mrs. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} you will be sorry if you do not help
us try to vote against this law. We believe if we
women band ourselves together, and now that we
have the right to vote on this subject the king
may think better of it when he sees how we feel
about it, and don't you feel afraid your husband
may bring home another wife?&quot; I said. &quot;Oh, no, I
am sure this cannot be.&quot; Then they left me. I felt
like one in a dream. This seemed such a strange
life to live. I did so long to once more feel free
like I used to in the other days. I tried hard at&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>eled7kz3f3ysjjqxa1mqtuh38lexovp</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/183</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847571</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132099</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:16:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;times to understand about this religion, but could not. I went very seldom to the Tabernacle to hear the preaching so I knew very little about what was said. Father and mother never talked about the old home any more. To them it was as if it never had been. Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}}, too, never talked about it, and sometimes I wondered had I dreamed that we ever lived in our eastern home. It was very seldom I ever went to the harbor. as my husband always...</comment>
      <origin>15132099</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1703" sha1="6kasv82nfytgp8v3u90mktpy3p97oow" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|167|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;times to understand about this religion, but could
not. I went very seldom to the Tabernacle to hear
the preaching so I knew very little about what was
said. Father and mother never talked about the old
home any more. To them it was as if it never
had been. Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}}, too, never talked about
it, and sometimes I wondered had I dreamed that we
ever lived in our eastern home. It was very seldom
I ever went to the harbor. as my husband always
brought me anything I wanted. I often heard about.
the parties given there, but never attended any.

One pleasant day in August, the eighth anni-
versary of our wedding, my husband said to me, &quot;I
shall not be home to dinner as there is some very im-
portant business to be done at the temple among the
elders. Have tea at five o'clock and I shall surely
be home at that hour.&quot; I followed him to the door
saying, &quot;Now remember, Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}}, this is our an-
niversary.&quot; He kissed me saying, &quot;I will remember
it Mary and be home at five.&quot; I sang at my work
as I had not done before for months. I felt so
happy. I looked about the home and it seemed.
more like the old home in York State; my flowers.
on each side the walk to the gate, in front the moun-
tain ash was lovely, and my climbing rose bushes
all about, which gave it all such a home-like look.
I soon started for the woods to gather wild flowers,
mosses and trailing vines to trim the room with so
it would look nice when Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} came home. I
met a neighbor and asked her to go with me. She
said. &quot;No, my heart is too sad. I fear my husband
will soon bring home another wife. Are you not&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6kasv82nfytgp8v3u90mktpy3p97oow</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/184</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847572</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132100</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:17:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;afraid Mrs. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}}?&quot; I answered, &quot;No I am not afraid, for Mr {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} would tell me so if anything like that was to happen.&quot; She gave me such a sad look with her eyes full of tears. Pulling her sun- bonnet over her face she passed on. I gathered my flowers and vines, returned home and trimmed my rooms. I put the vines around my white muslin window curtains with the pretty lace I had knit around the edge and the white bed curta...</comment>
      <origin>15132100</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1712" sha1="9sa058oz6l2ykeifabvfr44uamzduk8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|168|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;afraid Mrs. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}}?&quot; I answered, &quot;No I am not
afraid, for Mr {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} would tell me so if anything
like that was to happen.&quot; She gave me such a sad
look with her eyes full of tears. Pulling her sun-
bonnet over her face she passed on. I gathered my
flowers and vines, returned home and trimmed my
rooms. I put the vines around my white muslin
window curtains with the pretty lace I had knit
around the edge and the white bed curtains to
match. I set my table the prettiest I knew how, with
the lovely wild flowers in the center; I then ran over
to mother, telling her all I had done. I saw her and
sister Sarah exchange looks, both saying they were
glad I had done so. I played with the children a few
minutes, then ran home to prepare the tea. I wore
a pink muslin dress, the only one I had left from
the old home, and a pretty white apron, the last I
had of the kind. Somehow the day had been long,
but I felt no fear, only a sadness for the neighbor I
had met. Her sorrowful face seemed always before.
me. Remembering my husband was fond of warm
biscuit, I made some, and just as the clock struck
five I heard the gate click and our faithful dog
Tiger give a low growl. I thought strangers must
be coming, as he always barked with delight to see
his master. I hurried to the door. Mr {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} was
coming up the path with a woman holding to his
arm. Before I had time to move or speak they
stepped past me into the house. Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} said
to me, &quot;Mary let me introduce you to my wife to
whom I have just been sealed in spirit this day, and
I hope you will welcome her and show her the re-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9sa058oz6l2ykeifabvfr44uamzduk8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/59</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847573</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132101</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:17:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132101</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1037" sha1="5sd2ibbtqrsom8nd5ecbuotdzlofcpx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|41}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

All right then. [''Kisses'' {{sc|Zinida}}.] Come on.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Just a minute—{{sc|He}}! Answer me a question. I have a man who takes care of the cages, a plain fellow whom nobody knows. He just cleans the cages you know; he walks in and out whenever he wants to, without even looking at the lions, as if he were perfectly at home. Why is that so? Nobody knows him, everybody knows me, everyone is afraid for me, while{{longdash}} And he is such a silly man—you will see him. [''Laughs''.] But don’t you think of entering the cage yourself! My red one would give you such a slap!

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

[''Displeased'']: There you are again, Zinida—stop it.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

[''Laughs'']: All right—go. Oh yes, Louis, send me Bezano. I have to settle an account with him.

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''HE and the director go out''. {{sc|Zinida}} ''looks at the card once more, then hides it. She gets up and walks quickly up and down the room. She stops''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5sd2ibbtqrsom8nd5ecbuotdzlofcpx</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/185</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847574</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132102</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:18:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;spect which is her due from you.&quot; I stood still; I could not move; I could not speak; my tongue would not move in my mouth. I tried to say &quot;husband, husband,&quot; but no sound came. Oh the agony I suffered! I could only follow them with my eyes. I could not speak; I was dumb. The woman gave me an insolent look, saying, &quot;I guess I must have been expected. The house seems to be pretty well fixed up, but she doesn't seem to be very glad. She'll get used to it s...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1638" sha1="1a8t3xc9l8hj5cn2psb4eravhs018i8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|169|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;spect which is her due from you.&quot; I stood still; I
could not move; I could not speak; my tongue
would not move in my mouth. I tried to say
&quot;husband, husband,&quot; but no sound came. Oh the
agony I suffered! I could only follow them with
my eyes. I could not speak; I was dumb. The
woman gave me an insolent look, saying, &quot;I guess
I must have been expected. The house seems to
be pretty well fixed up, but she doesn't seem to be
very glad. She'll get used to it soon. We'll make
her know that I am the mistress here now. Won't
we Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}}?&quot; He smiled and nodded, saying,
&quot;Come let's have some supper. Come Mary, pour
the tea.&quot; I rushed from the house, running to my
mother's house. She met me calmly at the door.
&quot;Oh mother, did you know of this?&quot; She answered,
&quot;Yes Mary, we all knew it all along and what is the
use of making any fuss. It's God's commands.&quot; I
ran to my sister. She laughed, saying to me, &quot;Well,
you must be a fool. You ought to be proud to know
your husband is made an apostle of the Church of
Zion and already blessed with a spiritual wife. Now
do have some sense and don't disgrace us all.&quot; It
just began to dawn upon me my sister was just the
rankest little Mormon alive. I then went to my
father, thinking I would receive sympathy from him.
He said, &quot;Now Mary do be quiet. Your husband
has talked this over with us. We all thought best
to say nothing to you about it and when you saw it
could not be helped you would just settle down.
Your mother and I believe in this doctrine, and we
think it is right.&quot; I stayed to hear no more. Wild&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1a8t3xc9l8hj5cn2psb4eravhs018i8</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/186</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847575</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132104</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:19:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;with grief I ran back home. Oh, my home no long- er, to make a last appeal to my husband, to be sure it was not a horrible joke just to try me. I rushed in, throwing myself down at his feet, crying, &quot;Tell me, tell me this is not true! Tell me it is only a joke. to try me.&quot; I very soon learned it was only too true. They both threatened me with a straight jacket, with bread and water diet until I would quietly submit. I got upon my feet and staggered from...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1665" sha1="3v6cxjue59atho6wvqlj4zpp6qhnzug" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|170|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;with grief I ran back home. Oh, my home no long-
er, to make a last appeal to my husband, to be sure
it was not a horrible joke just to try me. I rushed
in, throwing myself down at his feet, crying, &quot;Tell
me, tell me this is not true! Tell me it is only a joke.
to try me.&quot; I very soon learned it was only too true.
They both threatened me with a straight jacket,
with bread and water diet until I would quietly
submit. I got upon my feet and staggered from
the door down the walk to the road. I was blind,
my limbs refused to carry me, and just as I was sink-
ing down my dumb sister caught me in her arms.
She had seen by my face I was in great trouble, and
she saw my mother did not sympathize with me.
She followed me, then looking toward the house saw
the two standing together. She seemed to under-
stand what it meant, and the first sound I ever
heard her make aloud, she gave a hoarse cry and
partly dragged me away to a large log beside the
road a short distance from the house. It was a
large tree that was upturned from the roots and shel-
tered us from the passers-by. She rubbed my hands.
smoothed my hair, pressing kisses upon my face, and
showing me she sympathized with me in my trouble.
Many times she showed anger, stamping on the
ground and shaking her fist toward the house. The
moon had risen, and every time I opened my eyes I
could not bear to look at it. I wanted it all dark.
Dark as midnight. Dark as the world now seemed
to me. After awhile the neighbor woman I had
met in the morning came to me. She took my
hands saying, &quot;Mrs. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} I am truly sorry for&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/187</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847576</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132106</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:20:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;you. I wanted to tell you this morning, but you. seemed so happy I could not do it. I saw you had entire belief in your husband's word. I blame him very much for not telling you his intentions. You might have felt different about it. I, too, have just one week of freedom, then my husband brings in another wife, as he, too, was made an apostle to- day. But in my case I have been told of it and have the privilege of choosing among the young women the one I...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1653" sha1="p5q35aavyp0hcdjyttqi5w6to4pzy61" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|171|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;you. I wanted to tell you this morning, but you.
seemed so happy I could not do it. I saw you had
entire belief in your husband's word. I blame him
very much for not telling you his intentions. You
might have felt different about it. I, too, have just
one week of freedom, then my husband brings in
another wife, as he, too, was made an apostle to-
day. But in my case I have been told of it and have
the privilege of choosing among the young women
the one I think I can best endure. I have chosen a
friend of mine. We have agreed to live as sisterly as
possible. For my four children's sake I can endure
much and I don't see how I can help myself; but I
must not be found talking with you, as such things
are forbidden.&quot; In a still lower tone she said, &quot;I
will help you all I can in your sorrow.&quot; She pressed.
a kiss on my face and was gone. I sat beside my
dumb sister thinking. &quot;Was it for this I had suf-
fered cold and hunger, leaving our comfortable
home in New York State? And of all the days in
the year, the anniversary of our wedding day he had
brought home the most homely old grass widow to
be found on the island, that everybody detested.
The king said afterwards he did this to humble my
pride. After the woman left us Nellie made me un-
derstand she would go to mother's and get me a
shawl. The dew was falling, I had no wrap, my
dress was muslin. She made me understand I was
to wait here until she came back. As soon as she
left me I partly crawled and dragged myself to
little Font Lake, which was about a quarter of a
mile distant. I laid myself down on the moss cov-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf/123</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847577</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132107</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:20:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132107</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3198" sha1="tmjkwxr3nzpz5kbgys12h5wdxep1u85" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|106|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;In addition to its service to NASA’s space science program, Atlas-Centaur became the preferred launch vehicle for the International Telecommunications Satellite Organization (Intelsat). During the 1970s, Atlas-Centaur launched nineteen commercial satellites (with two failures) and the first of seven Fleet Satellite Communications (FLTSATCOM) satellites for the military. These satellites were the spaceborne portion of a global Department of Defense communications system. The decade proved exceptionally busy for the Launch Vehicles Division at Lewis, headed between 1971 and 1974 by Dan Shramo. As the Lewis role in launch vehicles expanded in 1974, Center Director Bruce Lundin created a Launch Vehicles Directorate under Andrew Stofan. Henry Slone became manager of Atlas-Centaur, with Paul Winslow replacing Stofan as project manager of Titan-Centaur.

'''A Growing Expertise'''

A massive downsizing of Lewis Research Center in the early 1970s could not dampen the enthusiasm of the members of the Launch Vehicles Division for their bird. No longer Abe’s baby, Centaur belonged to the new generation of men and women who had experienced the tribulations of developing Centaur. The young engineers whom NASA had recruited in the early 1960s were just reaching their stride. Not part of the laboratory’s research tradition, they had matured with the Centaur program, shaped by the constant pressure of a launch date dictated by the position of Earth in relation to the other planets. From their common focus and physical isolation from the rest of the laboratory evolved a distinctive launch vehicles culture within Lewis. Joe Nieberding, a graduate of local John Carroll University with a major in physics, had spent his entire life in Cleveland before he started work at NASA Lewis in the early 1960s. Within his first month in the Launch Vehicles Division, he had seen both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans for the first time.&lt;ref&gt;Interview with Joe Nieberding by Virginia Dawson and Mark Bowles, 15 April 1999.&lt;/ref&gt; People in the Launch Vehicles Division grew used to shuttling back and forth across the country. They attended meetings, scrutinized the fabrication of Centaur tanks in San Diego, monitored tests at Sycamore Canyon and Point Loma, negotiated with the payload specialists at JPL, set up shake tests at the Lewis Plum Brook facility, and flew down to Cape Canaveral to prepare for launches. Some of the older “research men” at Lewis resented the privileges and high salaries of the new recruits in the Launch Vehicles Division, but they wanted nothing to do with the rough-and-tumble world of Centaur. The Development Engineering Building (DEB) completed in the mid-1960s provided office space for several hundred engineers outside the laboratory’s main gate. The location of the Launch Vehicles Division in the DEB emphasized its separation from the research side of the laboratory. Because of the importance of the interface between the payload and the launch vehicle, Centaur engineers became thoroughly familiar with the science of the missions. Most often, they&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tmjkwxr3nzpz5kbgys12h5wdxep1u85</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132114</id>
      <parentid>15132107</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:21:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132114</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3200" sha1="lj8146ecpqp9dnt0lk6br0x2izj3169" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|106|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;In addition to its service to NASA’s space science program, Atlas-Centaur became the preferred launch vehicle for the International Telecommunications Satellite Organization (Intelsat). During the 1970s, Atlas-Centaur launched nineteen commercial satellites (with two failures) and the first of seven Fleet Satellite Communications (FLTSATCOM) satellites for the military. These satellites were the spaceborne portion of a global Department of Defense communications system. The decade proved exceptionally busy for the Launch Vehicles Division at Lewis, headed between 1971 and 1974 by Dan Shramo. As the Lewis role in launch vehicles expanded in 1974, Center Director Bruce Lundin created a Launch Vehicles Directorate under Andrew Stofan. Henry Slone became manager of Atlas-Centaur, with Paul Winslow replacing Stofan as project manager of Titan-Centaur.

'''A Growing Expertise'''

A massive downsizing of Lewis Research Center in the early 1970s could not dampen the enthusiasm of the members of the Launch Vehicles Division for their bird. No longer Abe’s baby, Centaur belonged to the new generation of men and women who had experienced the tribulations of developing Centaur. The young engineers whom NASA had recruited in the early 1960s were just reaching their stride. Not part of the laboratory’s research tradition, they had matured with the Centaur program, shaped by the constant pressure of a launch date dictated by the position of Earth in relation to the other planets. From their common focus and physical isolation from the rest of the laboratory evolved a distinctive launch vehicles culture within Lewis. Joe Nieberding, a graduate of local John Carroll University with a major in physics, had spent his entire life in Cleveland before he started work at NASA Lewis in the early 1960s. Within his first month in the Launch Vehicles Division, he had seen both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans for the first time.&lt;ref&gt;Interview with Joe Nieberding by Virginia Dawson and Mark Bowles, 15 April 1999.&lt;/ref&gt;

People in the Launch Vehicles Division grew used to shuttling back and forth across the country. They attended meetings, scrutinized the fabrication of Centaur tanks in San Diego, monitored tests at Sycamore Canyon and Point Loma, negotiated with the payload specialists at JPL, set up shake tests at the Lewis Plum Brook facility, and flew down to Cape Canaveral to prepare for launches. Some of the older “research men” at Lewis resented the privileges and high salaries of the new recruits in the Launch Vehicles Division, but they wanted nothing to do with the rough-and-tumble world of Centaur. The Development Engineering Building (DEB) completed in the mid-1960s provided office space for several hundred engineers outside the laboratory’s main gate. The location of the Launch Vehicles Division in the DEB emphasized its separation from the research side of the laboratory.

Because of the importance of the interface between the payload and the launch vehicle, Centaur engineers became thoroughly familiar with the science of the missions. Most often, they&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lj8146ecpqp9dnt0lk6br0x2izj3169</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132351</id>
      <parentid>15132114</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:59:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TeysaKarlov</username>
        <id>3017537</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132351</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3200" sha1="r1452d4ax8ne7ajb3wnc0dqimtkk3g7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|106|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;In addition to its service to NASA’s space science program, Atlas-Centaur became the preferred launch vehicle for the International Telecommunications Satellite Organization (Intelsat). During the 1970s, Atlas-Centaur launched nineteen commercial satellites (with two failures) and the first of seven Fleet Satellite Communications (FLTSATCOM) satellites for the military. These satellites were the spaceborne portion of a global Department of Defense communications system. The decade proved exceptionally busy for the Launch Vehicles Division at Lewis, headed between 1971 and 1974 by Dan Shramo. As the Lewis role in launch vehicles expanded in 1974, Center Director Bruce Lundin created a Launch Vehicles Directorate under Andrew Stofan. Henry Slone became manager of Atlas-Centaur, with Paul Winslow replacing Stofan as project manager of Titan-Centaur.

'''A Growing Expertise'''

A massive downsizing of Lewis Research Center in the early 1970s could not dampen the enthusiasm of the members of the Launch Vehicles Division for their bird. No longer Abe’s baby, Centaur belonged to the new generation of men and women who had experienced the tribulations of developing Centaur. The young engineers whom NASA had recruited in the early 1960s were just reaching their stride. Not part of the laboratory’s research tradition, they had matured with the Centaur program, shaped by the constant pressure of a launch date dictated by the position of Earth in relation to the other planets. From their common focus and physical isolation from the rest of the laboratory evolved a distinctive launch vehicles culture within Lewis. Joe Nieberding, a graduate of local John Carroll University with a major in physics, had spent his entire life in Cleveland before he started work at NASA Lewis in the early 1960s. Within his first month in the Launch Vehicles Division, he had seen both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans for the first time.&lt;ref&gt;Interview with Joe Nieberding by Virginia Dawson and Mark Bowles, 15 April 1999.&lt;/ref&gt;

People in the Launch Vehicles Division grew used to shuttling back and forth across the country. They attended meetings, scrutinized the fabrication of Centaur tanks in San Diego, monitored tests at Sycamore Canyon and Point Loma, negotiated with the payload specialists at JPL, set up shake tests at the Lewis Plum Brook facility, and flew down to Cape Canaveral to prepare for launches. Some of the older “research men” at Lewis resented the privileges and high salaries of the new recruits in the Launch Vehicles Division, but they wanted nothing to do with the rough-and-tumble world of Centaur. The Development Engineering Building (DEB) completed in the mid-1960s provided office space for several hundred engineers outside the laboratory’s main gate. The location of the Launch Vehicles Division in the DEB emphasized its separation from the research side of the laboratory.

Because of the importance of the interface between the payload and the launch vehicle, Centaur engineers became thoroughly familiar with the science of the missions. Most often, they&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>r1452d4ax8ne7ajb3wnc0dqimtkk3g7</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/60</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847578</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132108</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:20:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132108</origin>
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      <text bytes="822" sha1="j5xemxi17jut1jyng6tqwy4z601crkf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|42|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}

{{dent/m|2em|-2em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''to listen to the Tango, which ends abruptly. Then she stands motionless, looking straight at the dark opening of the door through which'' {{sc|Bezano}} ''comes''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

[''Entering'']: You called me, Zinida? What do you want? Tell me quickly, I have no time{{longdash}}

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[{{sc|Zinida}} ''looks at him silently''. {{sc|Bezano}} ''flushes with anger, and knits his eyebrows. He turns to the door to go''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Bezano!

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

[''Stops, without looking up'']: What do you want? I have no time.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Bezano! I keep hearing people say that you are in love with Consuelo. Is it true?

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

[''Shrugging his shoulders'']: We work well together.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/188</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847579</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132110</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:21:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;ered bank, the darkness of despair rolled over me. My husband did not seem the same to me now. He seemed only a great monster beast that I wanted to get away from. I thought how happy our home had been before we knew anything about these strange people, and the dear friends I had left to come to this island. Then I thought of baby's grave far away in the old home. I could endure it no longer. I would end it all by plunging into the little lake where my h...</comment>
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      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1591" sha1="mz7jld3g7553lxvunp9g1l0mnbunjpl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|172|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ered bank, the darkness of despair rolled over me.
My husband did not seem the same to me now. He
seemed only a great monster beast that I wanted to
get away from. I thought how happy our home
had been before we knew anything about these
strange people, and the dear friends I had left to
come to this island. Then I thought of baby's
grave far away in the old home. I could endure it
no longer. I would end it all by plunging into the
little lake where my husband and I had strolled so
many times along its green shores. I gave the leap
that would end my earthly suffering. I was held
back by the dress and dear old Tiger whined, jump-
ing up, licking my face and hands and pulling me
back from the water. This is the last I remember
until I felt the warm sunshine upon my face and
old dog Tiger was lying beside me. When he felt
me move he began to whine and lick my hands. I
had no recollection of time any more as Tiger and I
wandered about through the woods. I ate berries.
and drank from the lake. All the food I had was
what my dog brought me. Bread crusts and meat
bones. At last my dumb sister found me by watch-
ing Tiger and following him. I knew Nellie, al-
though I was in a very weak condition. She tried
her best to get me home with her, but I would not
go.

Just about the time all this happened to me Nel-
lie's deaf and dumb husband had come to the island
on a steamboat. He had not come with the rest of
us, and since we came he had fallen heir to consid-
erable money and had come to claim Nellie and the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mz7jld3g7553lxvunp9g1l0mnbunjpl</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf/124</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847580</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132111</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:21:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132111</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3406" sha1="6oqnrbjqdb8giqs49k608wvxfrol5my" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;worked with mission planners at JPL in Pasadena, California. They also managed missions for Goddard Space Flight Center, Ames Research Center, and Marshall Space Flight Center during this period. Lewis and General Dynamics launch vehicle engineers were invited to the key science meetings so that they could better understand the Centaur payload requirements. Andrew Stofan said, “We attended all of their major reviews, so we were part of each science spacecraft and, of course, that meant we had to have a lot of people in a lot of places, because we were part of every science project being put on the launch vehicle.” Scientists reciprocated by taking a hands-on approach to Centaur’s technology. “They don’t sit back up in the ivory tower,” Tom Shaw of JPL remarked. “They’re out there kicking tires regularly.”&lt;ref&gt;Interview with Tom Shaw by Virginia Dawson, 10 November 1999.&lt;/ref&gt;

Mission planning began two or three years before the actual launch. The Centaur team liked to joke that, almost without exception, the payload always started out heavier than the Centaur could lift. Mission interface, handled by a group working under Edwin Muckley of Lewis, tackled questions such as how much can the spacecraft weigh? How much power does it need from the rocket? What is the target? What is the mission? How fast does the rocket have to go? How much heat can the spacecraft take? How much vibration can it stand when the rocket lifts off?

Another important way in which the Lewis launch vehicle team influenced a mission was through trajectory analysis. The team began its work by defining the key variables. Some of these were constant among all missions. For example, Earth always rotated and revolved around the Sun with nearconstant speeds because of its almost circular orbit. Other variables were mission-specific. Different planets had vastly different trajectories. Once the destination was known, other variables could be defined, such as the weight of Centaur, which changed with the differing fuel requirements, and the weight of the payload, which depended on the type of science instruments to be flown.&lt;ref&gt;Richard T. Mittauer, “Mariner Mars 1971 Launches,” 30 April 1971, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office, NASA GRC Records. 15&lt;/ref&gt;

Because Centaur was launched from a revolving, rotating platform to a revolving, rotating target, trajectory calculations changed depending upon the time of launch. A two-day launch opportunity required a trajectory for each possible minute of liftoff. Members of the Centaur trajectory team at Lewis pioneered many of the advanced trajectory calculation techniques needed to handle planetary mission design.

Lewis Omer (Frank) Spurlock, working under Fred Teren in the Lewis Performance Trajectory Group, became an expert in calculating trajectories. Spurlock had graduated from the University of New Mexico and won a Woodrow Wilson fellowship to Western Reserve University (later renamed Case Western Reserve University) to study physics. Just twenty-one when he started at Lewis in 1961, he traded graduate work for the chance to contribute to the space program at a time when knowledge of how to calculate the trajectory of a spacecraft was in its infancy.&lt;ref&gt;Oran Nicks, ''Far Travelers'', 62.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6oqnrbjqdb8giqs49k608wvxfrol5my</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132356</id>
      <parentid>15132111</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:01:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TeysaKarlov</username>
        <id>3017537</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132356</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3412" sha1="9qxpmk8sc9yoi8koe4waxwjn9u1msi4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;worked with mission planners at JPL in Pasadena, California. They also managed missions for Goddard Space Flight Center, Ames Research Center, and Marshall Space Flight Center during this period. Lewis and General Dynamics launch vehicle engineers were invited to the key science meetings so that they could better understand the Centaur payload requirements. Andrew Stofan said, “We attended all of their major reviews, so we were part of each science spacecraft and, of course, that meant we had to have a lot of people in a lot of places, because we were part of every science project being put on the launch vehicle.” Scientists reciprocated by taking a hands-on approach to Centaur’s technology. “They don’t sit back up in the ivory tower,” Tom Shaw of JPL remarked. “They’re out there kicking tires regularly.”&lt;ref&gt;Interview with Tom Shaw by Virginia Dawson, 10 November 1999.&lt;/ref&gt;

Mission planning began two or three years before the actual launch. The Centaur team liked to joke that, almost without exception, the payload always started out heavier than the Centaur could lift. Mission interface, handled by a group working under Edwin Muckley of Lewis, tackled questions such as how much can the spacecraft weigh? How much power does it need from the rocket? What is the target? What is the mission? How fast does the rocket have to go? How much heat can the spacecraft take? How much vibration can it stand when the rocket lifts off?

Another important way in which the Lewis launch vehicle team influenced a mission was through trajectory analysis. The team began its work by defining the key variables. Some of these were constant among all missions. For example, Earth always rotated and revolved around the Sun with near-constant speeds because of its almost circular orbit. Other variables were mission-specific. Different planets had vastly different trajectories. Once the destination was known, other variables could be defined, such as the weight of Centaur, which changed with the differing fuel requirements, and the weight of the payload, which depended on the type of science instruments to be flown.&lt;ref&gt;Richard T. Mittauer, “Mariner Mars 1971 Launches,” 30 April 1971, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office, NASA GRC Records.&lt;/ref&gt;

Because Centaur was launched from a revolving, rotating platform to a revolving, rotating target, trajectory calculations changed depending upon the time of launch. A two-day launch opportunity required a trajectory for each possible minute of liftoff. Members of the Centaur trajectory team at Lewis pioneered many of the advanced trajectory calculation techniques needed to handle planetary mission design.

Lewis Omer (Frank) Spurlock, working under Fred Teren in the Lewis Performance Trajectory Group, became an expert in calculating trajectories. Spurlock had graduated from the University of New Mexico and won a Woodrow Wilson fellowship to Western Reserve University (later renamed Case Western Reserve University) to study physics. Just twenty-one when he started at Lewis in 1961, he traded graduate work for the chance to contribute to the space program at a time when knowledge of how to calculate the trajectory of a spacecraft was in its infancy.&lt;ref&gt;Oran Nicks, ''Far Travelers'', 62.&lt;/ref&gt;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/189</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847581</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132112</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:21:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;children. They had gone to housekeeping in a little log cabin built in a secluded spot on the edge of the heavy woods. The little home was not yet finished. Nellie by her dumb language made me understand John had come and brought letters from the old home. She made me promise I would wait until she came back with John and the letters. In a short time they came. When he saw me it was terrible to look upon his silent rage. He foamed at the mouth and stuck...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1613" sha1="khe47m63wnfj9unu304osueu2r1gvqm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|173|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;children. They had gone to housekeeping in a
little log cabin built in a secluded spot on the edge
of the heavy woods. The little home was not yet
finished. Nellie by her dumb language made me
understand John had come and brought letters
from the old home. She made me promise I would
wait until she came back with John and the letters.
In a short time they came. When he saw me it was
terrible to look upon his silent rage. He foamed at
the mouth and stuck his knife into the earth, but
he could make no sound. He passed his hand over
my hair. It was white as snow. It was auburn in
color when I left my home. I did rouse up a little
when I watched the tears roll down his cheeks. Nel-
lie put a dress on me and a shawl. My bare feet
were cut and swollen. They both helped me to
walk; I was too weak to walk alone. At the last
John carried me in his arms to his home. Nellie
made me understand that I had been over three
weeks in the woods and by the king's orders no one
had dared openly to hunt for me or give me aid in
any way, claiming that was the way to subdue an
unruly spirit. It was told me that he who once had
been my loved husband never made an effort to find
me, not even my own father and mother. Strang
called all this &quot;Divine Revelation.&quot; Oh he was more
cruel than the grave to me.

From the time I entered John's home my three
dumb friends never left me. It was a hard struggle
for life with me. I saw no one and none ever came
to see us. The dear children kept me alive with
their sweet, childish prattle. At that time Strang's&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/61</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847582</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132113</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:21:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132113</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="744" sha1="ow30dz4ni6utu2hmi1naio5gfojm6fv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|43}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

[''Takes a step forward'']: No{{longdash}} Tell me, Alfred, do you love her?

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

[''Flushes like a boy, but looks straight into'' {{sc|Zinida’s}} ''eyes. Proudly'']: I do not love anybody. No, I love nobody. How can I? Consuelo? She is here to-day, gone to-morrow, if her father should take her away. And I? Who amI? An acrobat, the son of a Milanese shoemaker{{longdash}} She! I cannot even talk about it. Like my horses I have no words. Who am I to love?

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Do you love me? A little?

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

No. I told you before.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Still no? Not even a little?

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

[''After a silence'']: I am afraid of you.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/190</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847583</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132115</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:22:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;rule was absolute. None would have dared to give me aid. Many were living a double life, seemingly good Mormons, but only waiting for an opportun- ity to get away. Strang had enemies that would strike hard when the time came. Not long after I went to Nellie's he that I once called husband, watched and shot my faithful dog Tiger. Then I was roused. All the demons in me came to the sur- face. I could not keep quiet any longer. I got well as fast as possibl...</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1647" sha1="72cl0qyculu6y25u2jgv6qzotzo1sj9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|174|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;rule was absolute. None would have dared to give
me aid. Many were living a double life, seemingly
good Mormons, but only waiting for an opportun-
ity to get away. Strang had enemies that would
strike hard when the time came. Not long after I
went to Nellie's he that I once called husband,
watched and shot my faithful dog Tiger. Then I
was roused. All the demons in me came to the sur-
face. I could not keep quiet any longer. I got well
as fast as possible and caused the King and Mr.
{{nowrap|H.{{bar|2}}}} all the trouble I could.

The people were divided, not all were pleased with
the king and his rule. The Gentiles were leaving as
fast as they could, as there was no safety for them
or their property. Strang was losing much con-
trol of his people. Then he concluded to extend
his territory to the mainland, Charlevoix and Bower's
Harbor in Grand Traverse. Some had gone to Fox
Island. About this time Nellie's husband died very
sudden. We never knew the cause of his death.
Nellie with her children went with me to Charle-
voix, staying there all winter, then went to Bower's
Harbor. That winter in Charlevoix we almost.
starved before spring came. The snow was very
deep and ice heavy in the lake. The latter part of
March teams came over from Beaver Island on the
ice, bringing us provisions. They also went to Fox
Island, as the people there were in a starving con-
dition. This was not done by any of Strang's or-
ders. There were some good people who knew our
provisions could not last us till the opening of navi-
gation and they came without orders and saved our&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>72cl0qyculu6y25u2jgv6qzotzo1sj9</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf/125</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847584</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132116</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:23:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132116</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3437" sha1="dnpr4bsyn2qh3aouwsvprwj43fugsjy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|108|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Designing missions for expendable launch vehicles involves generating a mathematical model that takes into account launch vehicle performance capabilities and trajectory characteristics over a range of mission requirements and launch periods. For this task, Spurlock started out with an IBM computer with only 8 kilobytes of memory. He used an analog computer for the atmospheric portion of the trajectory. He then manually completed the upper stage calculations with the tiny digital computer. Lewis’s acquisition of an IBM 7090 computer with 32 kilobytes of memory greatly increased Spurlock’s computational capability. At first, Spurlock turned the trajectory calculations for each mission over to Harry Dempster at General Dynamics to work up into particular payload specifications. Then Spurlock developed an optimization computer code known as DUKSUP. (Pronounced “duck soup,” it was not an acronym but a reference to the ease with which it could be applied.) DUKSUP provided an alternate, very accurate means of determining a mission trajectory. It allowed mission planners to model various mission scenarios. The analytic techniques used in DUKSUP depended on an accurate vehicle model and the power of the calculus of variations. Early versions of the code were used on Surveyor, Mariners 6 through 10, Pioneers 10 and 11, Viking, Voyager, Helios, Pioneer Venus, the High-Energy Astronomy Observatory (HEAO), FLTSATCOM, INTELSAT, the Orbiting Astronomical Observatory (OAO), and Applications Technology Satellites (ATS). DUKSUP also gave government engineers an analytic tool to evaluate contractor data.&lt;ref&gt;L. R. Balkanyi and O. F. Spurlock, “DUKSUP: A High Thrust Trajectory Optimization Code,” AIAA 93-1127, Irvine, CA, 16–19 February 1993; and an interview with Frank Spurlock by Virginia Dawson, 6 April 1999. Much of the documentation of its early applications has been lost.&lt;/ref&gt;

'''After Surveyor'''

The first assignment for Centaur after Surveyor was to launch two Department of Defense satellites needed for meteorological and space environment tests. Although Atlas-Agena had launched the previous satellites in this series, Centaur was chosen for ATS 4 and 5 because they were too heavy for Agena to lift.&lt;ref&gt;Donald H. Martin, ''Communication Satellites'', 4th edition (California: The Aerospace Press, 2000), 18. For further information on ATS, see R. H. Pickard, “The Applications Technology Satellite,” in ''Proceedings of the 16th International Astronomical Congress'' (1965), vol. 4: Meteorological and Communications Satellites (1966); and Paul J. McCeney, “Applications Technology Satellite Program,” ''Acta Astronautica'' 5 (March–April 1978): 299–325.&lt;/ref&gt; Some key modifications were required to adapt Centaur technology for this new mission. Previous Centaurs were capable of a 25-minute coast period, but the ATS needed a 60-minute coast. For attitude control and propellant settling during the long coast period, engineers increased the supply of hydrogen peroxide. To compensate for the extreme cold Centaur would encounter during the coast period, they developed better thermal control sensors. However, the most significant change was to design a new satellite adapter to replace the one that had attached Surveyor to Centaur. The modifications begun on 8 April were ready&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dnpr4bsyn2qh3aouwsvprwj43fugsjy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132362</id>
      <parentid>15132116</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:05:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TeysaKarlov</username>
        <id>3017537</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132362</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3441" sha1="bt6yxo5gi4lxlo7f8s6seo6a9duqas2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|108|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Designing missions for expendable launch vehicles involves generating a mathematical model that takes into account launch vehicle performance capabilities and trajectory characteristics over a range of mission requirements and launch periods. For this task, Spurlock started out with an IBM computer with only 8 kilobytes of memory. He used an analog computer for the atmospheric portion of the trajectory. He then manually completed the upper stage calculations with the tiny digital computer. Lewis’s acquisition of an IBM 7090 computer with 32 kilobytes of memory greatly increased Spurlock’s computational capability. At first, Spurlock turned the trajectory calculations for each mission over to Harry Dempster at General Dynamics to work up into particular payload specifications. Then Spurlock developed an optimization computer code known as DUKSUP. (Pronounced “duck soup,” it was not an acronym but a reference to the ease with which it could be applied.) DUKSUP provided an alternate, very accurate means of determining a mission trajectory. It allowed mission planners to model various mission scenarios. The analytic techniques used in DUKSUP depended on an accurate vehicle model and the power of the calculus of variations. Early versions of the code were used on Surveyor, Mariners 6 through 10, Pioneers 10 and 11, Viking, Voyager, Helios, Pioneer Venus, the High-Energy Astronomy Observatory (HEAO), FLTSATCOM, INTELSAT, the Orbiting Astronomical Observatory (OAO), and Applications Technology Satellites (ATS). DUKSUP also gave government engineers an analytic tool to evaluate contractor data.&lt;ref&gt;L. R. Balkanyi and O. F. Spurlock, “DUKSUP: A High Thrust Trajectory Optimization Code,” AIAA 93-1127, Irvine, CA, 16–19 February 1993; and an interview with Frank Spurlock by Virginia Dawson, 6 April 1999. Much of the documentation of its early applications has been lost.&lt;/ref&gt;

'''After Surveyor'''

The first assignment for Centaur after Surveyor was to launch two Department of Defense satellites needed for meteorological and space environment tests. Although Atlas-Agena had launched the previous satellites in this series, Centaur was chosen for ATS 4 and 5 because they were too heavy for Agena to lift.&lt;ref&gt;Donald H. Martin, ''Communication Satellites'', 4th edition (California: The Aerospace Press, 2000), 18. For further information on ATS, see R. H. Pickard, “The Applications Technology Satellite,” in ''Proceedings of the 16th International Astronomical Congress'' (1965), vol. 4: ''Meteorological and Communications Satellites'' (1966); and Paul J. McCeney, “Applications Technology Satellite Program,” ''Acta Astronautica'' 5 (March–April 1978): 299–325.&lt;/ref&gt; Some key modifications were required to adapt Centaur technology for this new mission. Previous Centaurs were capable of a 25-minute coast period, but the ATS needed a 60-minute coast. For attitude control and propellant settling during the long coast period, engineers increased the supply of hydrogen peroxide. To compensate for the extreme cold Centaur would encounter during the coast period, they developed better thermal control sensors. However, the most significant change was to design a new satellite adapter to replace the one that had attached Surveyor to Centaur. The modifications begun on 8 April were ready&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bt6yxo5gi4lxlo7f8s6seo6a9duqas2</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/191</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847585</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132117</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:23:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;lives from starvation. &quot;Now do you wonder I am glad of Strang's death?&quot;  The story was a sad one, but true. It had not been all pleasure in Strang's kingdom. The doctrine they believed in and practiced beyond limit stifled all the good there was in their hearts. There was no pity felt or shown to those who went contrary to the &quot;Divine Revelations&quot; which their king was sup- posed to have. Poor, deluded people, how different would all have been for them ha...</comment>
      <origin>15132117</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1543" sha1="ccfuk1ew2fmpeebzbuy7qjvk4uhi8qm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|175|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;lives from starvation. &quot;Now do you wonder I am
glad of Strang's death?&quot;

The story was a sad one, but true. It had not
been all pleasure in Strang's kingdom. The doctrine
they believed in and practiced beyond limit stifled
all the good there was in their hearts. There was no
pity felt or shown to those who went contrary to
the &quot;Divine Revelations&quot; which their king was sup-
posed to have. Poor, deluded people, how different
would all have been for them had their leader used.
his splendid talent for good and taught his people
the way of life and truth.

{{ph|MY BROTHER LEWIS VISITING US AND HIS STORY.}}

Another year had rolled round. The June days.
lingered with us still when my brother Lewis came
from Beaver Island to visit us. We had not seen
him since he left us at Charlevoix after he was
wounded. The four years had changed him from a
boy to a man. He was now twenty-three years of
age. He had many things to tell us, he being one
of the men chosen the year before to help preserve
law and order in the sending away of the Mormons
after the king was shot. He went to the island to
help get the people away on the steamboats that were
sent to carry them from the island.

As soon as Strang was shot a great number of
the people left at once, having means of their own
to help themselves with. There were others who
had small means. Their homes were all they had.
Strang had preached and taught in the temple that
no bullet could pierce his body, and strange as it&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ccfuk1ew2fmpeebzbuy7qjvk4uhi8qm</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/62</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847586</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132118</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:23:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132118</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="801" sha1="9g94xwqbyvinnqkeu46n251wyxy77uc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|44|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

[''Wants to cry out, indignantly, but masters herself and lowers her eyes, as if in an effort to shut out their light; turns pale'']: Am I {{...}} so terrifying a woman{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

You are beautiful, like a queen. You are almost as beautiful as Consuelo. But I don’t like your eyes. Your eyes command me to love you—and I don’t like to be commanded. I am afraid of you.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Do I command, Bezano? No—only implore.

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

Then why not look at me straight? Now I have it. You know yourself that your eyes cannot implore. [''Laughs''.] Your lions have spoiled you.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

My red lion loves me{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

Never! If he loves you, why is he so sad?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9g94xwqbyvinnqkeu46n251wyxy77uc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/192</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847587</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132119</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:23:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;may seem, there were a large part of his people who believed it. And now when they knew their king was killed, and killed by the bullet, they were pros- trate with sorrow: many of them completely in- capable of thinking or doing for themselves. My brother said it was a sad sight to look upon when they came to the harbor to go on board the boats. Their sorrow was great. They seemed like a peo- ple without a hope in the world. Many wrung their hands and we...</comment>
      <origin>15132119</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1600" sha1="pp0stlm9fhjqvp2lb4m0m4beb9t7deb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|176|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;may seem, there were a large part of his people who
believed it. And now when they knew their king
was killed, and killed by the bullet, they were pros-
trate with sorrow: many of them completely in-
capable of thinking or doing for themselves. My
brother said it was a sad sight to look upon when
they came to the harbor to go on board the boats.
Their sorrow was great. They seemed like a peo-
ple without a hope in the world. Many wrung their
hands and wept with sad moanings, saying. &quot;Our
king, our king is dead.&quot; Women fainted and were
carried on board; children were crying. Even men
were sobbing, and two or three attempted to throw
themselves from the dock into the water to end
their misery. All were allowed to take their house-
hold goods, yet many did not do so. Some only
took their clothing and bedding. Poor suffering
people! No doubt they were afraid of the Gentiles,
thinking great harm would be done to them. The
feeling had become so bitter between them that in
a great many cases justice was not done where it
should have been. These people now had no desire
to remain on the island now that their king was
dead, even when going meant leaving their comfort-
able homes and all they had in the wide world.
Those that worked the hardest suffered most. The
building and making of their homes and improving
their farms had occupied all their time and attention.
They loved their king and their hearts were loyal
to him, seeing him only in his best moods, as he was
always kind and pleasant to them in his visits about&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pp0stlm9fhjqvp2lb4m0m4beb9t7deb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/193</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847588</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132121</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:24:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;the island. They knew nothing about the workings of the inner circle or private temple teachings.  {{ph|TEACHINGS OF MORMONISM}}  Strang knew just how to manage these hard- working, faithful people, and the reason so many were beginning to think favorably of polygamy was because they were taught that only those who were faithful could be sealed, and in this way were counted God's elect. But there were a large num- ber of women who came to the island that...</comment>
      <origin>15132121</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1465" sha1="1zf9absbm2watxlhjile0o13corbp70" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|177|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the island. They knew nothing about the workings
of the inner circle or private temple teachings.

{{ph|TEACHINGS OF MORMONISM}}

Strang knew just how to manage these hard-
working, faithful people, and the reason so many
were beginning to think favorably of polygamy was
because they were taught that only those who were
faithful could be sealed, and in this way were
counted God's elect. But there were a large num-
ber of women who came to the island that had been
better taught than to believe in such a doctrine,
which was the reason of Strang's failure to enforce
the law.

The two men who shot Strang had their own.
wrongs to avenge. Bedford had been whipped, he
claimed unjustly. The other man, Wentworth, also
had much bitterness in his heart of treatment he had
suffered from Strang. So the two had planned to
shoot him at their first opportunity. Immediately
after they shot him they ran to the U. S. steamer
Michigan and gave themselves up to the officers
saying, &quot;We have shot Strang and are willing to
suffer the consequences.&quot; They were taken to
Mackinac Island and put in jail, where they re-
mained about one week. One dark night the door
was unlocked and a man said to them, &quot;Ask no ques-
tions, but hurry to the dock and go on board the
steamboat that is there.&quot; They did so. Nothing
was ever done in the way of giving these men a
trial. Public sentiment was so great at the time&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1zf9absbm2watxlhjile0o13corbp70</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132124</id>
      <parentid>15132121</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:24:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132124</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1464" sha1="mtteab1qb8xx3f5cz69nruwn5uz7mw6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|177|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the island. They knew nothing about the workings
of the inner circle or private temple teachings.

{{ph|TEACHINGS OF MORMONISM}}

Strang knew just how to manage these hard-
working, faithful people, and the reason so many
were beginning to think favorably of polygamy was
because they were taught that only those who were
faithful could be sealed, and in this way were
counted God's elect. But there were a large num-
ber of women who came to the island that had been
better taught than to believe in such a doctrine,
which was the reason of Strang's failure to enforce
the law.

The two men who shot Strang had their own
wrongs to avenge. Bedford had been whipped, he
claimed unjustly. The other man, Wentworth, also
had much bitterness in his heart of treatment he had
suffered from Strang. So the two had planned to
shoot him at their first opportunity. Immediately
after they shot him they ran to the U. S. steamer
Michigan and gave themselves up to the officers
saying, &quot;We have shot Strang and are willing to
suffer the consequences.&quot; They were taken to
Mackinac Island and put in jail, where they re-
mained about one week. One dark night the door
was unlocked and a man said to them, &quot;Ask no ques-
tions, but hurry to the dock and go on board the
steamboat that is there.&quot; They did so. Nothing
was ever done in the way of giving these men a
trial. Public sentiment was so great at the time&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mtteab1qb8xx3f5cz69nruwn5uz7mw6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf/126</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847589</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132123</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:24:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>will add table in a bit</comment>
      <origin>15132123</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1940" sha1="hi9kju3c8w4alyk7242jiiwfqmucomq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;by 24 July 1968. In all, there were thirty significant changes. The Centaur Project Office at Lewis Research Center compiled the following summary of technical modifications to Centaur in preparation for post-Surveyor missions.&lt;ref&gt;“Presentation of Launch Vehicle System in Support of the ATS-D Mission,” 16 April 1968, Glenn Research Center, DEB Archives, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office.&lt;/ref&gt;
{{missing table}}
&lt;!--
Centaur Technical Modifications After Surveyor Missions Were Completed
System
Change from Surveyor
Reason for Change
Mechanical Systems,
Airborne, Peroxide
System

Provide a dual-bottle H 2O2
supply system and the
necessary support structure.

Provide an additional H2O2
supply to cover the extended
coast period.

Mechanical Systems,
Airborne, Peroxide
System

Provide for improved thermal
control of the H 2O2 bottles
and the boost pump
overspeed sensors.

Required to compensate for
the possible temperature
extremes resulting from the
extended coast period.

Mechanical Systems,
Airborne, Peroxide
System

Requalify the 3-pound
thrust H 2O2 motors for
65-minute operation.

Required to meet the extended
coast-period requirement.

Mechanical Systems,
Airborne, Pneumatics

Redesign the vent valve friction
devices and controller bellows.

General design
improvement.

Mechanical Systems,
Airborne, Pneumatics

Requalify the pneumatic
regulators to –45°F.

Required as a result of
possible lower temperature
environment during the
extended coast period.

Mechanical Systems,
Airborne, Propellants

Propellant utilization
electronics package to be
built and tested by GD/CC
instead of subcontractor.

Difficulties with subcontractor.

Mechanical Systems,
Airborne, Structural,
Nose Fairings

Add two access ports on the +
and – y axes.

Provide access to the ATS
electrical connectors.
--&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hi9kju3c8w4alyk7242jiiwfqmucomq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132266</id>
      <parentid>15132123</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:19:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132266</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1598" sha1="e239ir0j2k8j390s3yng4pgpzua0o4y" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
|+ Centaur Technical Modifications After Surveyor Missions Were Completed
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Provide a dual-bottle H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; supply system and the necessary support structure.
|Provide an additional H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; supply to cover the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Provide for improved thermal control of the H 2O2 bottles and the boost pump overspeed sensors.
|Required to compensate for the possible temperature extremes resulting from the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Requalify the 3-pound thrust H 2O2 motors for 65-minute operation.
|Required to meet the extended coast-period requirement.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Pneumatics
|Redesign the vent valve friction devices and controller bellows.
|General design improvement.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Pneumatics
|Requalify the pneumatic regulators to –45°F.
|Required as a result of possible lower temperature environment during the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Propellants
|Propellant utilization electronics package to be built and tested by GD/CC instead of subcontractor.
|Difficulties with subcontractor.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add two access ports on the + and – y axes.
|Provide access to the ATS electrical connectors.&lt;noinclude&gt;|}
{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>e239ir0j2k8j390s3yng4pgpzua0o4y</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132272</id>
      <parentid>15132266</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:21:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132272</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1601" sha1="bg2kwrm23loxdlej6hbzomflvbsbji8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
|+ Centaur Technical Modifications After Surveyor Missions Were Completed
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Provide a dual-bottle H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; supply system and the necessary support structure.
|Provide an additional H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; supply to cover the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Provide for improved thermal control of the H 2O2 bottles and the boost pump overspeed sensors.
|Required to compensate for the possible temperature extremes resulting from the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Requalify the 3-pound thrust H 2O2 motors for 65-minute operation.
|Required to meet the extended coast-period requirement.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Pneumatics
|Redesign the vent valve friction devices and controller bellows.
|General design improvement.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Pneumatics
|Requalify the pneumatic regulators to –45°F.
|Required as a result of possible lower temperature environment during the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Propellants
|Propellant utilization electronics package to be built and tested by GD/CC instead of subcontractor.
|Difficulties with subcontractor.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add two access ports on the + and – y axes.
|Provide access to the ATS electrical connectors.
|-&lt;noinclude&gt;|}
{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bg2kwrm23loxdlej6hbzomflvbsbji8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132274</id>
      <parentid>15132272</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:21:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132274</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2027" sha1="92pvgriu0430fc07l30cvih365rkuut" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;by 24 July 1968. In all, there were thirty significant changes. The Centaur Project Office at Lewis Research Center compiled the following summary of technical modifications to Centaur in preparation for post-Surveyor missions.&lt;ref&gt;“Presentation of Launch Vehicle System in Support of the ATS-D Mission,” 16 April 1968, Glenn Research Center, DEB Archives, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office.&lt;/ref&gt;
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
|+ Centaur Technical Modifications After Surveyor Missions Were Completed
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Provide a dual-bottle H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; supply system and the necessary support structure.
|Provide an additional H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; supply to cover the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Provide for improved thermal control of the H 2O2 bottles and the boost pump overspeed sensors.
|Required to compensate for the possible temperature extremes resulting from the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Requalify the 3-pound thrust H 2O2 motors for 65-minute operation.
|Required to meet the extended coast-period requirement.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Pneumatics
|Redesign the vent valve friction devices and controller bellows.
|General design improvement.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Pneumatics
|Requalify the pneumatic regulators to –45°F.
|Required as a result of possible lower temperature environment during the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Propellants
|Propellant utilization electronics package to be built and tested by GD/CC instead of subcontractor.
|Difficulties with subcontractor.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add two access ports on the + and – y axes.
|Provide access to the ATS electrical connectors.
|-&lt;noinclude&gt;|}
{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>92pvgriu0430fc07l30cvih365rkuut</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132287</id>
      <parentid>15132274</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:24:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problematic */ idk why smallrefs is coming at the top?</comment>
      <origin>15132287</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2027" sha1="bqzqssdjq5cx2dd6fgfg9cb0zfjnej2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;by 24 July 1968. In all, there were thirty significant changes. The Centaur Project Office at Lewis Research Center compiled the following summary of technical modifications to Centaur in preparation for post-Surveyor missions.&lt;ref&gt;“Presentation of Launch Vehicle System in Support of the ATS-D Mission,” 16 April 1968, Glenn Research Center, DEB Archives, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office.&lt;/ref&gt;
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
|+ Centaur Technical Modifications After Surveyor Missions Were Completed
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Provide a dual-bottle H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; supply system and the necessary support structure.
|Provide an additional H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; supply to cover the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Provide for improved thermal control of the H 2O2 bottles and the boost pump overspeed sensors.
|Required to compensate for the possible temperature extremes resulting from the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Requalify the 3-pound thrust H 2O2 motors for 65-minute operation.
|Required to meet the extended coast-period requirement.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Pneumatics
|Redesign the vent valve friction devices and controller bellows.
|General design improvement.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Pneumatics
|Requalify the pneumatic regulators to –45°F.
|Required as a result of possible lower temperature environment during the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Propellants
|Propellant utilization electronics package to be built and tested by GD/CC instead of subcontractor.
|Difficulties with subcontractor.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add two access ports on the + and – y axes.
|Provide access to the ATS electrical connectors.
|-&lt;noinclude&gt;|}
{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bqzqssdjq5cx2dd6fgfg9cb0zfjnej2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132371</id>
      <parentid>15132287</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:09:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TeysaKarlov</username>
        <id>3017537</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ Added nopt to fix smallrefs location</comment>
      <origin>15132371</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2076" sha1="pg3yzgdyyhn7hxxpatyuvh72cjzv298" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;by 24 July 1968. In all, there were thirty significant changes. The Centaur Project Office at Lewis Research Center compiled the following summary of technical modifications to Centaur in preparation for post-Surveyor missions.&lt;ref&gt;“Presentation of Launch Vehicle System in Support of the ATS-D Mission,” 16 April 1968, Glenn Research Center, DEB Archives, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office.&lt;/ref&gt;

{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
|+ Centaur Technical Modifications After Surveyor Missions Were Completed
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Provide a dual-bottle H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; supply system and the necessary support structure.
|Provide an additional H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; supply to cover the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Provide for improved thermal control of the H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; bottles and the boost pump overspeed sensors.
|Required to compensate for the possible temperature extremes resulting from the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Peroxide System
|Requalify the 3-pound thrust H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; motors for 65-minute operation.
|Required to meet the extended coast-period requirement.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Pneumatics
|Redesign the vent valve friction devices and controller bellows.
|General design improvement.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Pneumatics
|Requalify the pneumatic regulators to –45°F.
|Required as a result of possible lower temperature environment during the extended coast period.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Propellants
|Propellant utilization electronics package to be built and tested by GD/CC instead of subcontractor.
|Difficulties with subcontractor.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add two access ports on the + and – y axes.
|Provide access to the ATS electrical connectors.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}
{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pg3yzgdyyhn7hxxpatyuvh72cjzv298</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/63</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847590</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132125</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:25:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132125</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="790" sha1="qnduhhoh918mtc8g012s4y1ib5sfz3d" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|45}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Yesterday he was licking my hands like a dog.

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

And this morning he was looking for you to devour you. He thrusts out his muzzle and looks out, as if he sees only you. He is afraid of you, and he hates you. Or do you want me to lick your hands too, like a dog?

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

No, Alfred, but I—I want to kiss your hand. [''With passion'']: Give it to me!

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

[''Severely'']: I am ashamed to listen to you when you speak like that.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

[''Controlling herself'']: One should not torture another as you torture me. Alfred, I love you. No, I do not command. Look into my eyes{{longdash}} ''I love you''.

[''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

[''Turns to go'']: Good-bye.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qnduhhoh918mtc8g012s4y1ib5sfz3d</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/194</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847591</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132126</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:25:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;against the Mormons it would have been impossible. to find a jury to convict them.  {{ph|FATHER AND MOTHER'S VISIT TO BEAVER ISLAND.}}  My brother remained with us three weeks. Fa- ther and mother thought they would like to go back to the island with him to visit many of their old- time friends, who had gone back to the island after the Mormons left. Mr. Bower, at Bower's Harbor, owned a small vessel and was anxious, as he said, &quot;To go and see how the is...</comment>
      <origin>15132126</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1493" sha1="tgv1f5b2t095zjkbct7924t0mywvp47" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|178|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;against the Mormons it would have been impossible.
to find a jury to convict them.

{{ph|FATHER AND MOTHER'S VISIT TO BEAVER ISLAND.}}

My brother remained with us three weeks. Fa-
ther and mother thought they would like to go back
to the island with him to visit many of their old-
time friends, who had gone back to the island after
the Mormons left. Mr. Bower, at Bower's Harbor,
owned a small vessel and was anxious, as he said,
&quot;To go and see how the island looked with the
Mormons gone.&quot; So, with several more friends
from Traverse City and Old Mission, father, mother
and Frank went to Beaver Island. They were gone.
two weeks. I remained with Mrs. Hitchcock, my
former teacher, Miss Helen Goodale. She had gone.
to housekeeping in their cozy new home just built
on First street. I was very contented while they
were gone never thinking of such a thing that father
would move away from Traverse City. When they
came back I could see mother was greatly pleased
with the island. There she had met so many of her
old friends, and there she could talk her own lan-
gauge again.

{{ph|A MOTHER LONGING TO SEE HER CHILDREN.}}

I could see when mother spoke of the island her
heart was drawn to it. I said to her, &quot;Would you
leave Traverse City and go to Beaver Island?&quot; It
was dark and I could not see her face, but I knew
by her voice there were tears in her eyes as she said,
&quot;Well, I don't know Elizabeth, but it seemed to&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tgv1f5b2t095zjkbct7924t0mywvp47</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/195</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847592</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132127</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:26:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;me while I was there I was nearer to my boys, Charley and Anthony, and now as both are sailing they might sometime come into the harbor in a storm.&quot; I spoke with father about it. He said. he knew mother wanted to go back, but he did not. want to take me from school. Frank, too, said mother was anxious to go to the island, telling him there she might see her two boys who were sailing and have her oldest son with her all the time. There was nothing said to...</comment>
      <origin>15132127</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1619" sha1="iikli6nab19f59xmgzhd88w0qgdmmek" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|179|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;me while I was there I was nearer to my boys,
Charley and Anthony, and now as both are sailing
they might sometime come into the harbor in a
storm.&quot; I spoke with father about it. He said.
he knew mother wanted to go back, but he did not.
want to take me from school. Frank, too, said
mother was anxious to go to the island, telling him
there she might see her two boys who were sailing
and have her oldest son with her all the time. There
was nothing said to me again about it. I had forgot-
ten all about my talk with my mother.

One morning the latter part of August Frank
came and said to me, &quot;Elizabeth you must come
home. We are going to move to Beaver Island.&quot;
At first I said. &quot;No, this can't be so. I can't leave
my school which will soon now begin.&quot; But I hur-
ried home to find it was true. Packing was going
on and all preparations were made to move. Mother
was happy. She was going to be near her boys as
she so many times said when her neighbors urged
her not to go. My heart was heavy. How could I
go and leave all my dear companions and my dear
school, which was my greatest sorrow. Mr. Ther-
ian Bostwick had been our teacher the winter before
and would be again the coming winter. He was
a highly educated man and he and his wife wanted
me to remain with them all winter and go to school.
Father said I might if I wanted to and then I could
go to the island the next spring, but I felt I could
not do it. My winter in Ohio, where I had been
homesick, made me timid about being separated
from my parents. Dearly as I loved my young com-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>iikli6nab19f59xmgzhd88w0qgdmmek</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/196</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847593</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132128</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:26:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;panions and Traverse City, I felt I was needed by my parents. Father's health was failing, that I could plainly see, and Frank not old enough to be much help.  {{ph|LEAVING TRAVERSE CITY.}}  With many tears of sorrow to think of leaving companions, friends and Traverse City, the place. where we had been so happy in the four years of our stay, we bade adieu to our kind friends and neighbors and once more were sailing away over the waters to Beaver Island....</comment>
      <origin>15132128</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1499" sha1="s2gepz5yv2jb381vesz32my05b742an" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|180|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;panions and Traverse City, I felt I was needed by
my parents. Father's health was failing, that I
could plainly see, and Frank not old enough to be
much help.

{{ph|LEAVING TRAVERSE CITY.}}

With many tears of sorrow to think of leaving
companions, friends and Traverse City, the place.
where we had been so happy in the four years of
our stay, we bade adieu to our kind friends and
neighbors and once more were sailing away over
the waters to Beaver Island. As we sailed toward
Northport it was not long before all traces of the
little city had passed from our view, and though I
could not see it with my eyes, I could see it with
my heart, as I said to one of the gentlemen on board.
our vessel. There were three summer people that
had been at the island since early June. They came
over to Traverse City to see what the country looked
like and voted their preference for the island as a
summer home.

We called at Northport, stopping to see several
friends and wait for a fresher breeze. There we
met Mr. Dame, his wife and daughter, Mrs. Page,
and son Sebe, as we always called him. Mr. and
Mrs. Smith and many more wished us &quot;God speed&quot;
on the way across the water to our &quot;Island home.&quot;
We left Northport just as the sun was rising over
the treetops. The little town looked bright and
pleasant in the morning sunlight. The wind was
fair and sea smooth. We soon were past the point,
where we could look upon Lake Michigan. North&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>s2gepz5yv2jb381vesz32my05b742an</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/197</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847594</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132130</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:27:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;and South Fox Islands at our left, Charlevoix shore on our right, and soon Cat Head was left far behind, with the &quot;Beavers&quot; growing larger every minute.  {{ph|LANDING AT THE ISLAND.}}  The day was fair; the sky was blue; the sea gulls soared about our little ship, uttering their shrill cries in search of food. Soon the land could be plainly seen along the island, and as we neared its shores my thoughts went back to a few years ago, when I stood on the de...</comment>
      <origin>15132130</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1569" sha1="g74kob1xbbhdwp8ya093cyglhj6regj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|181|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and South Fox Islands at our left, Charlevoix shore
on our right, and soon Cat Head was left far behind,
with the &quot;Beavers&quot; growing larger every minute.

{{ph|LANDING AT THE ISLAND.}}

The day was fair; the sky was blue; the sea gulls
soared about our little ship, uttering their shrill
cries in search of food. Soon the land could be
plainly seen along the island, and as we neared its
shores my thoughts went back to a few years ago,
when I stood on the deck of the steamboat Mich-
igan watching so eagerly to catch the first glimpse
of the dear old island that was my home. And now.
as we passed Cable's dock and saw the houses, and
people walking about, how familiar everything
looked to me. I watched to see our old home, but
father said to me, &quot;It is burned down.&quot; I looked
at the place where it had stood and through my
tears it seemed I could almost see my little brother
Charley and myself strolling along the beach as we
so often did in the old days, chasing the plovers
along the shore. Then again I could see ourselves
hurrying to get on board the little vessel with our
goods left upon the beach and the Mormon men
pointing the guns at us. Father seemed to know
what was passing in my mind as he said, &quot;There
are only friends here now.&quot;

We sailed along Big Sand Bay, and there were
many little buildings left where the fishermen lived.
The Martin's and Sullivans place, with Kilty's and
others, all looked so familiar, then past Loaney's
Point with the big rock, and the homes looked just&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>g74kob1xbbhdwp8ya093cyglhj6regj</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/198</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847595</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132133</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:28:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;the same. In a short time our little ship was sailing into the harbor, where something new greeted my eyes, and that was the light house on the point, which was not there when I was there last. Every- thing was so beautiful and fair to look upon I could not help enjoying the lovely trip across the lake.  {{ph|HOTELS AT THE HARBOR.}}  My brother and other friends met us and took us to the Mormon printing office, which had been turned into a hotel. When re...</comment>
      <origin>15132133</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1533" sha1="oz8j3qemtzdrqkv7cqovu8irrwwyk5c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|182|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the same. In a short time our little ship was sailing
into the harbor, where something new greeted my
eyes, and that was the light house on the point,
which was not there when I was there last. Every-
thing was so beautiful and fair to look upon I could
not help enjoying the lovely trip across the lake.

{{ph|HOTELS AT THE HARBOR.}}

My brother and other friends met us and took us
to the Mormon printing office, which had been
turned into a hotel. When reaching there we were
met by ever so many old friends, nearly all speak-
ing in French, and their manner so hearty we could.
not help but feel their welcome. At supper time
the dining room was filled with a jolly crowd of
fishermen with a number of city people that were
staying for rest and recreation in the summer
months. Several of them had been with the fish-
ermen on the lake that day watching the process.
of setting and lifting the nets, and many were the
jokes that were made at their expense. Next door
was another larger hotel, kept by Mr. David Lob-
dell and his wife. Mrs. Lobdell came from Fre-
mont, Ohio. This hotel had been full of summer
boarders, but many had gone to their city homes.
This house had been used by the Mormons as a
dance hall and theater.

The summer at the island had been a very gay
one. About twenty families had summered there,
living in the deserted homes of the Mormons.
There were also two or three smaller boarding
houses that were all filled and doing a good busi-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>oz8j3qemtzdrqkv7cqovu8irrwwyk5c</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/199</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847596</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132134</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:28:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;ness. Fish were plenty, bringing a good price. Everybody had money and used it freely. The fish- ermen were a good, kind, jolly people as a class, borrowing no troubles for the morrow. In those days there were no tugs used in the fishing busi- ness, neither were there pound-nets used. There were many seines used. The fish caught were usu- ally very large in size, both whitefish and trout. The merchants did a prosperous business. In winter the cord wood w...</comment>
      <origin>15132134</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1578" sha1="dcxm8lkrys2q36ry6m95syf66trdayc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|183|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ness. Fish were plenty, bringing a good price.
Everybody had money and used it freely. The fish-
ermen were a good, kind, jolly people as a class,
borrowing no troubles for the morrow. In those
days there were no tugs used in the fishing busi-
ness, neither were there pound-nets used. There
were many seines used. The fish caught were usu-
ally very large in size, both whitefish and trout. The
merchants did a prosperous business. In winter the
cord wood was chopped and brought to the docks
for the steamers' fuel during the summer season.

{{ph|THE FAREWELL RECEPTION TO FRIENDS.}}

The evening before we reached there a large.
party had been given as a farewell to the many
summer friends that were going to their city homes.
The two young Mormon sisters that Strang had
chosen as Spiritual wives were also going away.
They were to have a great festival, or feast, in July
to celebrate the sealing ceremony of the King's
marriage with the two young sisters, but death
had come and taken the King before the time of the
ceremony. These two sisters were very beautiful
girls who were orphans and had a home with their
uncle, he being a staunch Mormon, but a very good
man. The summer people had been very interested
in these two young sisters. Their parents had both
died while they were very young. Being raised in
the Mormon faith they thought it was right and
considered it a great honor to have been chosen by
the prophet and King. I was told by one who
knew them intimately that they expressed great joy&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dcxm8lkrys2q36ry6m95syf66trdayc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/64</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847597</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132136</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:29:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132136</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="846" sha1="6xw6k156lqg4zwwfb1kaaede4rlgk4x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|46|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Alfred{{longdash}}

[''HE appears in the doorway, and stops''.]

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

Please never tell me any more that you love me. I don’t want it. Otherwise I will quit. You pronounce the word love as if you were cracking me with your whip. You know it is disgusting{{longdash}}

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''He turns brusquely and goes. Both notice HE;'' {{sc|Bezano}}, ''frowning, passes out quickly''. {{sc|Zinida}} ''returns to her place at the desk, with a proudly indifferent expression''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Coming in'']: I beg your pardon, but I{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

There you are again, poking your nose into everything, {{sc|He}}. Do you really want a slap?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Laughing'']: No. I simply forgot my overcoat. I didn’t hear anything.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6xw6k156lqg4zwwfb1kaaede4rlgk4x</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/200</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847598</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132137</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:29:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;that they had escaped such a fate. Since the shooting of Strang they, as well as many others, had lost their faith in his religion.  {{ph|RETURN OF THE MERCHANTS.}}  We were soon settled in a comfortable house left by the Mormons. The houses as a rule were placed close together in groups of three. Their yards were nicely laid out and filled with handsome flowers, which were now in bloom. When we reached there houses were plenty and we could take our choi...</comment>
      <origin>15132137</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1537" sha1="3gox0wmzitrxt8hzjnzwpcc1qi3mfzj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|184|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;that they had escaped such a fate. Since the
shooting of Strang they, as well as many others,
had lost their faith in his religion.

{{ph|RETURN OF THE MERCHANTS.}}

We were soon settled in a comfortable house
left by the Mormons. The houses as a rule were
placed close together in groups of three. Their
yards were nicely laid out and filled with handsome
flowers, which were now in bloom. When we
reached there houses were plenty and we could take
our choice. Mr. C. R. Wright and family had re-
turned to the island, starting a large cooper shop
and employing a number of workmen. Mr. James
Moore and family, T. D. Smith and family, and
many others who had left in 1852, had now returned.
Mr. James Cable had taken possession of his prop-
erty at the head of the island and was again in busi-
ness. Mr. Peter McKinley had returned and was
in business across the harbor on the opposite side.
from the point at what was called the &quot;Gregg prop-
erty.&quot; Mr. McKinley had been elected to the State
Legislature at Lansing, so did not return to the
island until late in the fall. His brother Morrison
taking charge of the business. Peter McKinley
was first cousin to William McKinley, our late
President of the United States.

There was a very comfortable school house, built
by the Mormons. It was a frame building contain-
ing a large library of fine books which belonged to
the King. There were books of Greek and Latin,
with histories and law books. Our school was taught&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3gox0wmzitrxt8hzjnzwpcc1qi3mfzj</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/201</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847599</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132138</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:29:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;that winter by Mr. Isaac Wright from Illinois. The Mormons had always had good schools, as the king wanted to have his subjects educated, but would not allow them to go outside to be educated. The teachers being their own people.  About a mile back from the shore on high, level land was Mr. Campbell's farm. This was a beauti- ful location on the south side of the harbor. This family had remained when the Mormons had left. They were glad to be left in pea...</comment>
      <origin>15132138</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1511" sha1="8plfv5031ilwh59fdihelzkl5kcwqvb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|185|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;that winter by Mr. Isaac Wright from Illinois. The
Mormons had always had good schools, as the king
wanted to have his subjects educated, but would not
allow them to go outside to be educated. The
teachers being their own people.

About a mile back from the shore on high, level
land was Mr. Campbell's farm. This was a beauti-
ful location on the south side of the harbor. This
family had remained when the Mormons had left.
They were glad to be left in peace and had become
tired of Strang's rule. They were my neighbors
for many years and proved themselves kind and
true friends.

Mrs. Campbell had been one of Strang's great-
est enemies in preventing his enforcing the laws of
polygamy. She carried her family Bible to the
temple, and there with many other women read
God's laws from its pages faster than the king
could explain it in his way. She told me all this
herself, and said many times when she started for
the temple it was with fear and trembling, not
knowing sometimes whether she would ever return
to her home.

She knew she was defying the King, and no one
at the time could tell what the outcome might be,
adding, &quot;But we knew we were right and were fight-
ing for our homes. We kept agitating and gained
time. Strang began to find his power was not ab-
solute. We women banded ourselves together and
fought him with words so strong he had to stop to
consider where he stood. Before it was settled the
king was shot.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8plfv5031ilwh59fdihelzkl5kcwqvb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/65</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847600</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132140</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:30:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132140</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="595" sha1="28w61b5xx132444dph6vuumf2451x92" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|47}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

I don’t care whether you did or not.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

May I take my coat?

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Take it if it’s yours. Sit down, {{sc|He}}.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I am sitting down.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

Now tell me {{sc|He}}, could you love me?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Laughing'']: I? I and Love! Look at me, Zinida. Did you ever see a lover with such a face?

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

One can succeed with such a face{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

That’s because I am happy—because I lost my hat—because I am drunk—or perhaps I am not drunk.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>28w61b5xx132444dph6vuumf2451x92</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/202</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847601</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132141</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:30:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{ph|DR. MCCULLOCH'S RESIDENCE.}}  At the harbor side, or St. James, was quite a village. Two docks, two stores, with the two hotels and two or three boarding houses; further around the bay was the old Mormon boarding house build- ing that had been run by the Mormon with four wives. It was built of logs smooth on both sides. Mr. C. R. Wright converted that building into a large cooper shop. There were about twenty houses back along the hill, reaching alo...</comment>
      <origin>15132141</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1529" sha1="jrnwxm1jm8cqll0w5marsqjtr5oxrut" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|186|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ph|DR. MCCULLOCH'S RESIDENCE.}}

At the harbor side, or St. James, was quite a
village. Two docks, two stores, with the two hotels
and two or three boarding houses; further around
the bay was the old Mormon boarding house build-
ing that had been run by the Mormon with four
wives. It was built of logs smooth on both sides.
Mr. C. R. Wright converted that building into a
large cooper shop. There were about twenty houses
back along the hill, reaching along past the temple
and Strang's cottage, with several more in the other
direction around the bay toward the point. Just
back a short distance from the street just opposite
the dock stood what was called &quot;Dr. McCull-
och's residence.&quot; A very pretty gothic story and
a half cottage. It was painted white with a
white picket fence around it. Dr. McCull-
och was the Mormon doctor from Baltimore.
A fine physician. Coming to the island just
to rest, he gained his health and liked the cli-
mate so well he settled there. His wife was a
highly cultured lady. While not wholly Mormons,
they were just enough so as to live peaceably with
the King. Mrs. McCulloch was the leader in much of
their amusements, and she often ridiculed Strang
about his way of living and insisting upon the
women wearing short hair and bloomer costumes.
She always wore her dresses long when going on
her annual trips home to Baltimore. But when on
the island she wore the regulation short dress, as
she said, &quot;Just for fun.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jrnwxm1jm8cqll0w5marsqjtr5oxrut</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/203</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847602</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132143</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:31:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;The year we returned, in 1857, a Mr. Burke, a merchant from Buffalo, N. Y., had been that sum- mer at the island with a stock of goods, leaving in the fall, selling his goods to Mr. George R. Peck- ham, of Toledo, Ohio, who carried on the business a few years alone, after which C. R. Wright went partner with him; then for a number of years the firm of Peckham &amp; Wright was known. Later George Peckham sold his interest to Mr. Wright, and then the firm was...</comment>
      <origin>15132143</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1501" sha1="93btbyq326n309987lxq2x0mfzwqpsv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|187|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;The year we returned, in 1857, a Mr. Burke, a
merchant from Buffalo, N. Y., had been that sum-
mer at the island with a stock of goods, leaving in
the fall, selling his goods to Mr. George R. Peck-
ham, of Toledo, Ohio, who carried on the business
a few years alone, after which C. R. Wright went
partner with him; then for a number of years the
firm of Peckham &amp; Wright was known. Later
George Peckham sold his interest to Mr. Wright,
and then the firm was known as C. R. Wright &amp;
Son. The business grew, as thousands of barrels
of fish were caught and shipped every season. It
soon became equal to the fish market at Mackinac
Island, it being nearer to most of the fishing
grounds. In a few years the property at the point
was bought by the firm of Dormer &amp; Allen, of Buf-
falo, N. Y. A large store and warehouse was
built, with the dock improved, and the business was
carried on at the point with success by that firm for
a number of years.

{{ph|THE KING'S HIGHWAY.}}

At Cable's dock Mr. John Corlette, of Ohio, had
settled, and after a fair success in business.
of several years he moved to Cheboygan, Mich.,
with his son-in-law, Mr. Andrew Trombley.
Captain Appleby, of Buffalo, N. Y., took Mr.
Loaney's place as keeper of the light-house.
at the head of the island, where his nephew,
Frank Blakeslee, assisted. After a few years Mr.
Harrison Miller took Capt. Appleby's place, re-
maining eleven years or more, assisted by his&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>93btbyq326n309987lxq2x0mfzwqpsv</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/204</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847603</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132146</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:31:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;nephew, Edwin Bedford. Mr. William Duclon suc- ceeded Miller, and after about eight years was trans- ferred to Eagle Bluff light-house, where he still continues at this writing. Mr. Harrison Miller, after leaving the light-house, was appointed keeper of the life saving station at Beaver Harbor, and was transferred to Point Betsey life-saving station. Mr. Owen Gallagher succeeded him at the Beaver Island station.  The Mormons laid the roads out very conve...</comment>
      <origin>15132146</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1545" sha1="51rkxr2d5iz2deg88tzbv9zsxt4opi8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|188|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;nephew, Edwin Bedford. Mr. William Duclon suc-
ceeded Miller, and after about eight years was trans-
ferred to Eagle Bluff light-house, where he still
continues at this writing. Mr. Harrison Miller,
after leaving the light-house, was appointed keeper
of the life saving station at Beaver Harbor, and was
transferred to Point Betsey life-saving station. Mr.
Owen Gallagher succeeded him at the Beaver Island
station.

The Mormons laid the roads out very conven-
ient for the settlers that were in the interior of the
island. One road went direct from the harbor
across to Bonnar's landing, a distance of five miles.
This road passed through many fine farms, and
there were roads branching from this one leading
to all parts of the island, with the king's highway
leading direct through from the harbor to the head.
of the island. The king's highway was very beau-
tiful with its wild scenery. Many of the roads were
built with small logs cut the width of the road and
laid down firmly close together. These were called
cause-ways or corduroy. This kind was built where
it was swampy and low land to go through. These
cause-ways were very beautiful in summer time
with their branches arching overhead in many
places, with beautiful evergreens mixed in with
willows, green mosses and flowers.

{{ph|HORSEBACK RIDING ABOUT THE ISLAND.}}

I soon became acquainted with Mr. Campbell's
daughter. She was a bright, jolly girl just two.
years older than I. They had horses, so Mary and I&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>51rkxr2d5iz2deg88tzbv9zsxt4opi8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/205</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847604</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132148</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:32:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;used to ride horseback almost every day until she had taken me almost all over the island. Oh, those delightful rides! There were roads and bridle paths going in every direction. I would soon have been lost, but Mary knew them all, and when she had any doubts about the way out from the deep. woods those two horses never failed to take us right. Mary was a pleasant companion. She knew the names of all the people who had lived on those now deserted farms....</comment>
      <origin>15132148</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1662" sha1="6s0dd2od5oju15gdf1rjyohf6xn5oef" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|189|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;used to ride horseback almost every day until she
had taken me almost all over the island. Oh, those
delightful rides! There were roads and bridle
paths going in every direction. I would soon have
been lost, but Mary knew them all, and when she
had any doubts about the way out from the deep.
woods those two horses never failed to take us
right. Mary was a pleasant companion. She knew
the names of all the people who had lived on those
now deserted farms. Every house we came to was
vacant. The little gates were broken off their
hinges in several places, and in some of the houses
the curtains were still at the windows. Weeds
were growing all about the doors, flowers were still
in bloom, with weeds mixed in among them, barns
were empty with some of their doors open. There
were broods of chickens around many of the barns,
and one yard we rode into some pretty little kittens
ran scampering under the barn. Mary was talking
all the time, saying, &quot;Such a man lived here; they
were very good people. Just see how pretty the
flowers grow and the lovely currant bushes. Ma
and I came and picked the most of them this season,
as Mrs. {{nowrap|M{{bar|2}}}} told us to. Oh we did feel so sorry.
for her to have to leave her home. Now these peo-
ple were awfully queer. They never talked to any-
body and just see the lovely hay in this field all
going to waste.&quot; We rode along where there were
several houses built close together with a large barn,
and the flowers were beautiful. Roses climbing
about the windows. &quot;Yes, this is where one of the
apostles lived. We didn't like him a bit. Ma says.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6s0dd2od5oju15gdf1rjyohf6xn5oef</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/206</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847605</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132152</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:33:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;he made Strang do lots of things he didn't want to and wanted to put father high in office and have him sealed to some more wives, but Ma would not allow it. She went to the temple and did all she could do to stop it, and I believe Strang was afraid the women would mob him. At any rate he let us alone. We liked that apostle's wife. She was a kind little. woman.&quot; I enjoyed the riding, but it made me sad to see all those deserted homes. I could see how muc...</comment>
      <origin>15132152</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1576" sha1="k7apodwn1re85uzrjd53r4k4leo9q49" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|190|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;he made Strang do lots of things he didn't want to
and wanted to put father high in office and have him
sealed to some more wives, but Ma would not allow
it. She went to the temple and did all she could do
to stop it, and I believe Strang was afraid the women
would mob him. At any rate he let us alone. We
liked that apostle's wife. She was a kind little.
woman.&quot; I enjoyed the riding, but it made me sad
to see all those deserted homes. I could see how
much hard work had been done to make everything
so comfortable.

{{ph|THE HOME WHERE THE WIFE HAD BEEN DRIVEN OUT.}}

One day, on our last ride, we rode directly across
to Bonnar's landing. Mr. and Mrs. John Bonnar
had bought and settled on a very fertile piece of
land. At that time there was not much cleared;
later they had a beautiful home. Mr. Ray Peckham
and wife also had bought a good farm near Mr.
Bonnar's. This day Mary and I rode around all the
homes out on that road, then came down and took.
the road leading out to Long Lake, near Font Lake.
Our horses were walking, Mary was pointing out
and telling me about the people that lived on this
road. We soon came to a home that it seemed to
me I had seen before. I said, &quot;Mary, who lived
here?&quot; &quot;Oh. this is where Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} lived; the
man who treated his wife so badly because she did
not like it when he brought home another wife.&quot;
We tied our horses and walked about the yard. Yes,
here was the home. There were the rose bushes
about the windows, the flowers down the walk, a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>k7apodwn1re85uzrjd53r4k4leo9q49</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/207</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847606</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132155</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:34:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;mountain ash with its red berries, the vegetable garden at the back of the house with the currant and gooseberry bushes. I looked a long time, see- ing it all in my mind as the woman had told me her story. I could see the man and woman standing together in the door while the wife was hurrying away to her mother for sympathy. I could not keep. the tears back. Mary saw I felt sad and said, &quot;Why do you cry? Are you lonesome for the friends you have left in...</comment>
      <origin>15132155</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1553" sha1="hjvta8yyi5p6uq79krjqy1kvmt2g43c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|191|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;mountain ash with its red berries, the vegetable
garden at the back of the house with the currant
and gooseberry bushes. I looked a long time, see-
ing it all in my mind as the woman had told me her
story. I could see the man and woman standing
together in the door while the wife was hurrying
away to her mother for sympathy. I could not keep.
the tears back. Mary saw I felt sad and said, &quot;Why
do you cry? Are you lonesome for the friends you
have left in your old home?&quot; I said, &quot;No, I am cry-
ing because I have heard the story about the woman.
She told it to me herself.&quot; &quot;Oh yes, I remember
hearing ma tell me about this woman. She says she
thinks it was the most cruel joke Strang ever plan-
ned.&quot; (Strang always called such things jokes.)
Over there is where her father and mother lived
and way over there (pointing to the woods) is
where that deaf and dumb sister of her's lived. We
walked over to the woods. The little log cabin
stood almost hid by the trees and bushes. It had a
more deserted look than the rest of the houses..
Bushes and weeds were right up to the door. Mary
said no one had ever lived in it since the deaf and
dumb man had died and his wife and children had
gone away. We hurried away. It gave us such a
gloomy feeling. We were glad to come back where
the sun was shining.

{{ph|TIGER'S GRAVE.}}

Mary said, &quot;Come, I will show you old Tiger's
grave, where the woman and her deaf and dumb sis-
ter buried him after Mr. {{nowrap|H{{bar|2}}}} shot him for his&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hjvta8yyi5p6uq79krjqy1kvmt2g43c</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/208</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847607</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132157</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:34:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;faithfulness to his mistress. We stood beside the spot where the wronged wife had buried her faith- ful dog. She had planted a rose bush beside it. There were many beautiful roses on the bush that season. Tiger's grave was near the shore of little Font Lake at the place where he pulled his mistress from a watery grave. We then rode down through Enoch, and there Mary pointed to a grave with a beautiful lilac bush at its head with a white picket fence abou...</comment>
      <origin>15132157</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1550" sha1="nts9ov7yy0wymk45ar4dagipe5t2gyh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|192|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;faithfulness to his mistress. We stood beside the
spot where the wronged wife had buried her faith-
ful dog. She had planted a rose bush beside it.
There were many beautiful roses on the bush that
season. Tiger's grave was near the shore of little
Font Lake at the place where he pulled his mistress
from a watery grave. We then rode down through
Enoch, and there Mary pointed to a grave with a
beautiful lilac bush at its head with a white picket
fence about it. That is where the mother of four
young girls is buried. It almost broke their hearts
to go away and leave their mother's grave. They
had asked Mary to see to it sometimes, which she
had promised to do.

{{ph|THE JOHNSON HOUSE.}}

Mary said, &quot;Now just one more place to go and
see before we go home.&quot; We rode around pretty
Font Lake, soon coming to a large two story and
a half house, built very near the sloping shore of the
lake. We tied our horses, walking down the path
to the water. There were seats in among the small
cedars, which grew thickly about. The house was
still in good repair. &quot;This is the Johnson House.
The people were rich. He was a merchant living
in Buffalo. The King and &quot;Douglas&quot; went to their
home and soon persuaded them to sell and come
here. They built this house, and out there you can
see the large barn. They brought their horses and
carriages. They brought their dead daughter's body
and buried it out there on that little knoll.&quot; I looked
and saw the white railing about the lonely grave&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nts9ov7yy0wymk45ar4dagipe5t2gyh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/109</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847608</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132158</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:35:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;me.&quot; His voice was low and his face looked sad. I looked at him a long time, then said: &quot;I see blood on your head. I am afraid of you.&quot; He put his hand to his head. passing it over his forehead, and looking at his hand, he said: &quot;I see no blood.&quot; He was very pale and his face was serious. Mother ex- plained to him that I had heard the people say that the blood of Bennett was resting on Strang's head. I got down from his lap and took my little chair as fa...</comment>
      <origin>15132158</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1613" sha1="6ntptame8o5knq07rdq2dsu15tavmk0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|97|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;me.&quot; His voice was low and his face looked sad. I
looked at him a long time, then said: &quot;I see blood
on your head. I am afraid of you.&quot; He put his
hand to his head. passing it over his forehead, and
looking at his hand, he said: &quot;I see no blood.&quot; He
was very pale and his face was serious. Mother ex-
plained to him that I had heard the people say that
the blood of Bennett was resting on Strang's head.
I got down from his lap and took my little chair
as far as I could from him, and holding my doll, I
watched the king, fearing him so much. He told
mother he was absent when Bennett was killed.
She asked him why he was always absent when his
people did the most disagreeable things. He said:
&quot;Do not judge me too harshly. I am not respon-
sible for the killing of Bennett.&quot; Father and our
boys soon came in with our friend, John Goeing.
Strang staid to dinner and praised our boys for
being so brave in going on the lake. He said: &quot;My
people will never learn to be good sailors; they are
too timid.&quot; Then he asked about the schooling.
Father told him John Goeing, our boarder, was
teaching us.

Father told me in after years he had a very ser-
ious talk with Strang that day, and the king ad-
mitted it was not right that Bennett was killed, but
said where there were people that were opposite in
their beliefs there was always trouble. Mother told
him some sorrows would come to him if he per-
sisted to live as he was living. He smiled, saying:
&quot;Oh, we aren't such a bad people, after all, Mrs.
Whitney, and when you become one of us you will&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6ntptame8o5knq07rdq2dsu15tavmk0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/110</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847609</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132162</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:36:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;think just as we do.&quot; He shook hands and was gone. Mother said to father: &quot;I do believe we shall have to leave here soon or we shall be forced to become Mormons.&quot; Father assured her that would never be.  {{ph|JOHN GOEING AND HIS DEAR OLD IRISH HOME.}}  John Goeing came to the island and had been with us two years. He was an educated and re- fined gentleman from Ireland. His father was a rich Irish lord. John had been disappointed in love. and left his &quot;d...</comment>
      <origin>15132162</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1541" sha1="byssy1vydzxmre3bjfsdpdo8zh59n9k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|98|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;think just as we do.&quot; He shook hands and was
gone. Mother said to father: &quot;I do believe we
shall have to leave here soon or we shall be forced
to become Mormons.&quot; Father assured her that
would never be.

{{ph|JOHN GOEING AND HIS DEAR OLD IRISH HOME.}}

John Goeing came to the island and had been
with us two years. He was an educated and re-
fined gentleman from Ireland. His father was a
rich Irish lord. John had been disappointed in love.
and left his &quot;dear old Irish home&quot; to come to Amer-
ica. From a visit to friends in Canada he had wan-
dered to Beaver Island, and had been with us ever
since. He was a great reader, having a box full of
books. He did not work, and being very fond of
us children he took it upon himself to teach us. He
received money from home often, with the finest
of broadcloth suits of clothes with silk underwear.
Every evening after the lessons were heard John
would read to us or tell us about his &quot;old home
in Erin.&quot; What brother Charley and I loved most
was to have John tell about the chase with
hounds. I liked it all except where the fox was
killed by the dogs, then I would say, &quot;John, can't
you tell some stories where the fox gets away from
the hounds?&quot; Then he smiled, saying, &quot;I won't.
have the foxes killed any more. It makes Elizabeth
feel too sorry.&quot; Then he would get his books, say-
ing, &quot;Now, children, where shall we go tonight?
England. Ireland or Scotland?&quot; Sometimes we all
wanted different stories. Then he would say, &quot;I&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>byssy1vydzxmre3bjfsdpdo8zh59n9k</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Child of the Sea and Life Among the Mormons.djvu/111</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847611</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132165</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:37:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;will take you to Ireland, my own native home.&quot; To me it was fairyland to listen to John telling of the home he had left, with its lovely green parks, grav- eled walks, shady bowers where his father and mother often strolled about with their children. We could almost see it all as he told it to us, and so often when he finished the tears would be falling through his fingers as his head rested on his hands. And the books, how wonderful were the places he t...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1556" sha1="7tf4wu1xumnusjfzs7xoyh94vasb9oe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|99|''LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS.''|''A CHILD OF THE SEA; AND''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;will take you to Ireland, my own native home.&quot; To
me it was fairyland to listen to John telling of the
home he had left, with its lovely green parks, grav-
eled walks, shady bowers where his father and
mother often strolled about with their children. We
could almost see it all as he told it to us, and so
often when he finished the tears would be falling
through his fingers as his head rested on his hands.
And the books, how wonderful were the places he
took us to in them! He had traveled almost every-
where and we loved best to hear about his travels.
We could understand it all better. John was like
a brother to us younger ones, and like a kind son
to father and mother.

{{ph|MY BROTHER CHARLEY GOING TO OHIO.}}

Summer was fast slipping away. Our summer
boarders were talking of home. One of our board-
ers, Mr. William Hill, was anxious to take my
brother Charley home with him, put him to school
and teach him the engineer's trade. It was all talked
over and settled that Charley was to go. We chil-
dren could not realize much about what it meant.
My eldest brother had been one winter with the
same man. Charley was to remain with Mr. Hill
until he was twenty-one, he being past ten now.
Papers were made out and signed. Mother pre-
pared all the clothes for her boy that was going
away to another home. I remember so well seeing
the tears rolling down her cheeks as she sewed
and stitched far into the night, making the little
jackets that Charley was to wear in his far away&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/202</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847612</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132181</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:42:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132181</origin>
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      <text bytes="1992" sha1="kivyea4awp2tbh9udaapam52gt93kec" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|196|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;Why not come this way?&quot; proposed the still affable saleswoman, pointing to the windows in the rear wall which also let in daylight. Yet when Joanna without answering had walked on to the front, she offered no further comment.

The incident was a slight one, possessing possibly no significance, but Joanna had walked out of the store hot and raging, the more so because she was not completely sure whether the slight was intentional or not. It had not helped her frame of mind to purchase a less becoming coat in a department store where she was known and liked by one of the salesgirls. Gradually she worked herself into a state of contemptuous indifference, but she meant to be careful in selecting a place in which to get her dinner. She had to work too hard these days to bring on her good spirits, she was not going to have them dissipated by galling if petty discriminations.

Well, there was no help for it, she would have to go over to the Pennsylvania station at Thirty-third Street. She was sure of pleasant treatment there. After this solid afternoon of work in the gloomy library, the walk would do her good.

A hand fell on her shoulder, and she turned to find beside her Vera Manning, one of the members of her old dancing-class. This surprised her, for of late hardly any one of Joanna's group had seen Vera. The report in Harlem was that she was passing for white and had no desire to be recognized by her colored acquaintances.

&quot;It's been ages since I've seen you, Joanna,&quot; Vera began confidently. &quot;I was sitting in the library waiting for a 'date'—doesn't that sound awful?—and then all of a sudden I thought, 'pshaw, I don't want to be bothered!' Just then you hove on the scene. Where you going?&quot;

&quot;Some place to get a good dinner,&quot; Joanna told her, wondering why she looked different from the Vera Manning she used to know. Her clothes showed her usual careful, even modish taste, but her face looked hard—&quot;reckless&quot;—Joanna&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>kivyea4awp2tbh9udaapam52gt93kec</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Acadiensis Q2.djvu/271</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847613</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132191</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:45:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132191</origin>
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      <text bytes="2986" sha1="40qa1drc8vhbek3ljm9l2eamz0kgvjs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh||BOOK NOTICES|215}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;In the appendix is given a bibliography of works bearing upon the subject. The plates are well printed on extra heavy paper, and are engraved by the Heliotype Printing Co., of Boston. 
{{dhr}}{{rule|5em}}{{dhr}}
&quot;The Acadian Exile and Sea Shell Essays,&quot; by [[Author:Jeremiah Simpson Clark|Jeremiah S. Clark]], of Bay View, {{nw|P. E. I.}} The booklet contains sixty pages of well written verse, and is to be had of Archibald Irwin, publisher, Charlottetown, {{nw|P. E. I.}}, price 25 cents. Mr. Clark has already been introduced to the readers of {{sc|Acadiensis}}, his poem &quot;[[Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 2/Glooscap|Glooscap]]&quot; having appeared in our last issue. He is a young man of much promise, and it is to be hoped that the present work may soon be followed by others equally valuable. Numerous illustrations are scattered through the work. Preceding the main portion of the work, the writer, in an aside, reveals somewhat his hopes and aspirations, as well as his admiration for the poet [[Author:Henry Wadsworth Longfellow|Longfellow]], and concludes as follows: 

{{fine block/s}}
&quot;A thousand times has the sun set behind the distant hills at the bend of the valley, while the writer inhaled the evening air fresh from the meadows of Cornwallis and Grand Pré; and, often alone, he has hurried over the upland towards the Gaspereau's mouth, or watched the ebb of the receding tide from a suspicious mound in some forgotten hollow, until he knows the country, hill and dale; and here he would simply remark what he has often felt, as his eyes measured the far receding distances: that if the great American poet had ever visited the scene of the exile, certainly he would not have been surprised with the height or nearness of the neighboring mountains, on whose lofty pinnacles 'sea-fogs pitched their tents but ne'er for a moment descended into the happy valley.' Dear spirit of Longfellow if such familiarity of address be not considered sacrilege 

{{ppoem|
{{fqm}}A school boy wandering through the wood
:To pluck the primrose gay,
Starts, thy curious voice to hear,
:And imitates thy lay.&quot;
}}
{{fine block/e}}
{{dhr}}{{rule|5em}}{{dhr}}
&quot;A Monograph of the Evolution of the Boundaries of the Province of New Brunswick,&quot; by [[Author:William Francis Ganong|William F. Ganong, M. A., Ph. D.]], being No. 5 of Contributions to the History of New Brunswick. 450 pp., from the Transactions of the Royal Society of Canada, Second Series, 1901–1902, Volume VII, Section 11. 

The object of the work is to attempt to explain the precise factors which have determined for each New Brunswick boundary line its genesis, its persistence, its position, its direction and its length. The work is copiously illustrated with reproductions of maps any of which might be of value to the student in casting additional light upon the various questions which have arisen regarding New Brunswick boundaries. Concerning this interesting subject, Prof. Ganong remarks that&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132194</id>
      <parentid>15132191</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:45:56Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <comment>nop</comment>
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      <text bytes="2994" sha1="gf364wyr8b2i253nksox0t3854u6iq2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh||BOOK NOTICES|215}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;In the appendix is given a bibliography of works bearing upon the subject. The plates are well printed on extra heavy paper, and are engraved by the Heliotype Printing Co., of Boston. 
{{dhr}}{{rule|5em}}{{dhr}}
&quot;The Acadian Exile and Sea Shell Essays,&quot; by [[Author:Jeremiah Simpson Clark|Jeremiah S. Clark]], of Bay View, {{nw|P. E. I.}} The booklet contains sixty pages of well written verse, and is to be had of Archibald Irwin, publisher, Charlottetown, {{nw|P. E. I.}}, price 25 cents. Mr. Clark has already been introduced to the readers of {{sc|Acadiensis}}, his poem &quot;[[Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 2/Glooscap|Glooscap]]&quot; having appeared in our last issue. He is a young man of much promise, and it is to be hoped that the present work may soon be followed by others equally valuable. Numerous illustrations are scattered through the work. Preceding the main portion of the work, the writer, in an aside, reveals somewhat his hopes and aspirations, as well as his admiration for the poet [[Author:Henry Wadsworth Longfellow|Longfellow]], and concludes as follows: 

{{fine block/s}}
&quot;A thousand times has the sun set behind the distant hills at the bend of the valley, while the writer inhaled the evening air fresh from the meadows of Cornwallis and Grand Pré; and, often alone, he has hurried over the upland towards the Gaspereau's mouth, or watched the ebb of the receding tide from a suspicious mound in some forgotten hollow, until he knows the country, hill and dale; and here he would simply remark what he has often felt, as his eyes measured the far receding distances: that if the great American poet had ever visited the scene of the exile, certainly he would not have been surprised with the height or nearness of the neighboring mountains, on whose lofty pinnacles 'sea-fogs pitched their tents but ne'er for a moment descended into the happy valley.' Dear spirit of Longfellow if such familiarity of address be not considered sacrilege 

{{ppoem|
{{fqm}}A school boy wandering through the wood
:To pluck the primrose gay,
Starts, thy curious voice to hear,
:And imitates thy lay.&quot;
}}
{{fine block/e}}
{{dhr}}{{rule|5em}}{{dhr}}
&quot;A Monograph of the Evolution of the Boundaries of the Province of New Brunswick,&quot; by [[Author:William Francis Ganong|William F. Ganong, M. A., Ph. D.]], being No. 5 of Contributions to the History of New Brunswick. 450 pp., from the Transactions of the Royal Society of Canada, Second Series, 1901–1902, Volume VII, Section 11. 

The object of the work is to attempt to explain the precise factors which have determined for each New Brunswick boundary line its genesis, its persistence, its position, its direction and its length. The work is copiously illustrated with reproductions of maps any of which might be of value to the student in casting additional light upon the various questions which have arisen regarding New Brunswick boundaries. Concerning this interesting subject, Prof. Ganong remarks that
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gf364wyr8b2i253nksox0t3854u6iq2</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu/64</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847614</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132196</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:46:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132196</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1645" sha1="kldfgny8zglinsx594vyolxww4jt94r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{c|( 50 )}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=follow|But ah! th' enervate Song attempts in vain, {{pline|305|r}}
The mighty Theme unequal to sustain.
{{em}}The Morning now extends her azure ray,
Diffusing o'er the East a gloomy day;
When, from the lofty top emerg'd, they see
The rising hills of Greece beneath the lee; {{pline|310|r}}
Th' uneven mountains of St. George appear,
Whose eastern points on the meridian bear.
&quot;Port all ye can!&quot; the Pilots now command,
T' avoid, if possible, the fatal strand.
Across the raging tide the Vessel flies, {{pline|315|r}}
And, more enlarg'd, St. George's hills arise;
High o'er the rest, a conic Cliff is seen,
That over-looks a wild and barren green.
Nearer and nearer now the Danger grows,
And all their Skill relentless Fates oppose; {{pline|320|r}}
For, when the prow more eastward they direct,
Enormous floods burst o'er the quiv'ring deck:
While, flying round, unable to subdue,
At ev'ry curve, they dread to broach her too&lt;ref&gt;The great difficulty of steering the Ship before the sea at this time is occasioned by its striking her on the quarter when the makes the least angle on either side, which often forces her stern round, and brings her broadside to the wind and sea, and is only an effect of the same cause that is explained before. See the last Note of Canto 2d.&lt;/ref&gt;;
Alarming Thought! for now no more a-lee, {{pline|325|r}}
The trembling side could bear th' augmented Sea:
And, if pursuing waves the feud before,
Headlong she runs upon the horrid shore:
A shore where shelves and hidden rocks abound,
And Death appears in various forms around. {{pline|330|r}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
{{continues|Thus,}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/203</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847615</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132199</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:49:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132199</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1816" sha1="nv32wb56totm6gnuv7pvue51ske01rf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|197|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;suddenly decided; that was the word. She went on quickly: &quot;See here, you work somewhere down in this neighborhood, don't you? Where do you suppose I can get something to eat, without walking a thousand miles for it?&quot;

Vera frowned thoughtfully. &quot;You see, I'm 'passing' just now—I know you've heard of it—and so I go into any of these places around here, but I never see any colored people. Of course you could try the Automat.&quot;

But Joanna didn't want that.

&quot;Their food's all right when you feel like eating it, but I want a regular dinner-waiter, service, and all the rest of it. Pick out a good place for me and I'll take you to dinner, too. Nothing could be fairer than that.&quot;

Vera agreed smilingly that it couldn't. &quot;There's a place over on Forty-second Street. I remember now I have seen some colored people in there and they get decent treatment. We could go there—&quot; she checked herself a moment. &quot;Oh, no, I forgot.&quot;

&quot;Forgot what?&quot;

&quot;Look here, Janna, I might as well be frank, we were all of us children together—doesn't it seem ages ago? You know I wouldn't ever try to fool you. But the truth of it is I go to that particular restaurant often with the other girls in my office and of course the restaurant people think I'm—I'm white. See? I don't know just what they'd think if they saw me with you—some one who definitely showed color—or what might come of it. You don't think I'm a pig, Joanna?&quot;

&quot;I think I'd be a pig if I did think so,&quot; Joanna told her heartily. &quot;Come on and take dinner with me over at the Pennsy station. It'll be nice to have a talk.&quot;

The two girls moved down Fortieth Street in the direction of Seventh Avenue.

&quot;You'd understand it better if you worked among them—white people you know,&quot; Vera told her seriously. &quot;Of course&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nv32wb56totm6gnuv7pvue51ske01rf</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/848</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847616</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132202</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:50:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;powerful desire to fly, to go out into the night and to disappear forever. Then, convulsive sobs rose up in my throat, and I wept, shaken with spasms, with my heart torn asunder, all my nerves writhing with the horrible sensation of an irremediable misfortune, and with that dreadful sense of shame which, in such moments as this, falls on a mother's heart.   &quot;'He looked at me in a scared fashion, not venturing to approach me  or to speak to me or to touch...</comment>
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      <text bytes="2862" sha1="pn04f6fewe0f7p5ws0qmvpm6fvx10cr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh|814|WORKS OF GUY DE MAUPASSANT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;powerful desire to fly, to go out into the night and to disappear forever. Then, convulsive sobs rose up in my throat, and I wept, shaken with spasms, with my heart torn asunder, all my nerves writhing with the horrible sensation of an irremediable misfortune, and with that dreadful sense of shame which, in such moments as this, falls on a mother's heart. 

&quot;'He looked at me in a scared fashion, not venturing to approach me 
or to speak to me or to touch me, for fear of the boy's return. At last he said: 

&quot;I am going to follow him — to talk to him — to explain matters to him. In short, I must see him and let him know — &quot; 

&quot;'And he hurried away. 

&quot;'I waited — I waited in a distracted 
frame of mind, trembling at the least 
sound, convulsed with terror, and 
filled with some unutterably strange 
and intolerable emotion by every slight 
crackling of the fire in the grate. 

&quot; 1 waited for an hour, for two hours, 
feeling my heart swell with a dread I 
had never before experienced, with such 
an anguish as I would not wish the 
greatest of criminals to experience. 
Where was my son? What was he do- 
ing? 

&quot;'About midnight, a messenger 
brought me a note from my lover. I 
still know its contents by heart : 

** * &quot;Has your son returned? I did not 
find him. I am down here. I do not 
want to go up at this hour.&quot; 

&quot; 'I wrote in pencil on the same slip 
of paper. 

&quot;'&quot;Jean has not returned. You must 
go and fine* him.&quot; 

&quot;'And I remained all night in the 
armchair, waiting for him. 

&quot; 'I felt as if I were going mad. I 
longed to run wildly about, to roll my* 
self on the floor. And yet I did not. 
even stir, but kept waiting hour after 
hour. What was going to happen? I 
tried to imagine, to guess. But I could 
form no conception, in spite of my 
efforts, in spite of the tortures of my 
soul! 

&quot; 'And now my apprehension was lest 
they might meet. What would they do 
in that case? What would my son do? 
My mind was lacerated by fearful 
doubts, by terrible suppositions. 

&quot; 'You understand what I mean, do 
you not, Monsieur? 

&quot; 'My chambermaid, who knew noth- 
ing, who understood nothing, was com- 
ing in every moment, believing, natu- 
rally that I had lost my reason. I had 
sent her away with a word or a move- 
ment of the hand. She went for the 
doctor, who found me in the throes 
of a nervous fit. 

&quot; 'I was put to bed. Then came an 
attack of brain-fever. When I re- 
gained consciousness, after a long ill- 
ness, I saw beside my bed my — lover 
— alone. I exclaimed: 

&quot;'&quot;My son? Where is my son?'* 
&quot;'He replied: 

&quot; * &quot;I assure you every effort has 
been made by me to find him, but I 
have failed!&quot; 

&quot; 'Then, becoming suddenly exas- 
perated and even indignant, — for 
women are subject to such outbursts 
of unaccountable and unreasoning 
anger, — I said:&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pn04f6fewe0f7p5ws0qmvpm6fvx10cr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132369</id>
      <parentid>15132202</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:07:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132369</origin>
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      <text bytes="2795" sha1="fhriagjaeodrhi9qr8nml1ri0qb6mpp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh|814|WORKS OF GUY DE MAUPASSANT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;powerful desire to fly, to go out into the night and to disappear forever. Then, convulsive sobs rose up in my throat, and I wept, shaken with spasms, with my heart torn asunder, all my nerves writhing with the horrible sensation of an irremediable misfortune, and with that dreadful sense of shame which, in such moments as this, falls on a mother's heart. 

&quot;'He looked at me in a scared fashion, not venturing to approach me 
or to speak to me or to touch me, for fear of the boy's return. At last he said: 

&quot;I am going to follow him — to talk to him — to explain matters to him. In short, I must see him and let him know — &quot; 

&quot;'And he hurried away. 

&quot;'I waited — I waited in a distracted frame of mind, trembling at the least sound, convulsed with terror, and 
filled with some unutterably strange and intolerable emotion by every slight crackling of the fire in the grate. 

&quot;&quot;I waited for an hour, for two hours, feeling my heart swell with a dread I had never before experienced, with such an anguish as I would not wish the greatest of criminals to experience. Where was my son? What was he doing? 

&quot;'About midnight, a messenger brought me a note from my lover. I still know its contents by heart : 

&quot;'&quot;Has your son returned? I did not find him. I am down here. I do not want to go up at this hour.&quot; 

&quot;'I wrote in pencil on the same slip of paper. 

&quot;'&quot;Jean has not returned. You must go and find him.&quot; 

&quot;'And I remained all night in the armchair, waiting for him. 

&quot;'I felt as if I were going mad. I longed to run wildly about, to roll myself on the floor. And yet I did not. 
even stir, but kept waiting hour after hour. What was going to happen? I tried to imagine, to guess. But I could 
form no conception, in spite of my efforts, in spite of the tortures of my soul! 

&quot;'And now my apprehension was lest they might meet. What would they do 
in that case? What would my son do? My mind was lacerated by fearful doubts, by terrible suppositions. 

&quot;'You understand what I mean, do you not, Monsieur? 

&quot;'My chambermaid, who knew nothing, who understood nothing, was coming in every moment, believing, naturally that I had lost my reason. I had sent her away with a word or a movement of the hand. She went for the doctor, who found me in the throes of a nervous fit. 

&quot;'I was put to bed. Then came an attack of brain-fever. When I regained consciousness, after a long illness, I saw beside my bed my — lover — alone. I exclaimed: 

&quot;'&quot;My son? Where is my son?&quot;

&quot;'He replied: 

&quot;'&quot;I assure you every effort has been made by me to find him, but I have failed!&quot; 

&quot;'Then, becoming suddenly exasperated and even indignant, — for 
women are subject to such outbursts of unaccountable and unreasoning anger, — I said:
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fhriagjaeodrhi9qr8nml1ri0qb6mpp</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Author:Frederick B. Richards</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
    <id>4847617</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132203</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:50:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
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==Works==
* The Black Watch at Ticonderoga and Major Duncan Campbell of Inverawe {{ssl|The Black Watch at Ticonderoga and Major Duncan Campbell of Inverawe.djvu}} [[smaller|The work is marked as (191?) on Commons]]


&lt;!-- please add author license here; see [[Help:Copyright tags]] --&gt;
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 | deathyear    = &lt;!--data now imported from wikidata, please consider deleting once matched--&gt;
 | description  = 
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==Works==
* The Black Watch at Ticonderoga and Major Duncan Campbell of Inverawe {{ssl|The Black Watch at Ticonderoga and Major Duncan Campbell of Inverawe.djvu}} {{smaller|The work is marked as (191?) on Commons}}


&lt;!-- please add author license here; see [[Help:Copyright tags]] --&gt;
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  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/204</title>
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      <text bytes="1854" sha1="0k4omsxw8dhgac5hhy85aned9h4v0jz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|198|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I suppose there must be some decent ones, not the high-brow philanthropists and all that crowd, but people who have too much breeding, too much innate—well, niceness, I guess you'd call it, to make light of folks just because they're different. But that crowd in my office, they never think of being courteous to a colored person. If they want the janitor it's 'Where's that darky?' or 'I saw a coon in the subway this morning wearing a red tie, made me think of Jim here,' always something like that. Of course they don't say it to the man's face. There'd be a fight if they did.&quot;

&quot;I don't see how you stand it,&quot; Joanna puzzled. &quot;What put it in your head to work with white people, anyhow?&quot;

&quot;Oh, to get away from everybody and everything I'd ever known.&quot; They were at the table in the dining-room now and Vera was making criss-cross marks with her fork on the white cloth, frowning absorbedly.

&quot;You know, Joanna, I wasn't like you—not one of us girls was. I was more like Sylvia, I wanted a good time, but most of all I wanted, I expected to marry. You remember Harley Alexander?&quot;

Joanna did remember him, indeed, a tall personable youth about her own color, a companion of Harry Portor, Brian Spencer, and to a less degree of her own brother Alec. But what she especially remembered was that he had been the constant shadow of Vera Manning.

&quot;Of course I remember him, Vera. He's a dentist now, isn't he? Didn't he graduate the same year as Harry Portor?&quot;

&quot;Yes, that's the fellow. Joanna, we really loved each other, and we planned even before he went to college to get married as soon as he came out. But as soon as my mother—you know how color-struck she is—realized we were in earnest, up she went in the air. None of her children should marry a dark man. It only meant unhappiness. If Harley and I&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Acadiensis Q2.djvu/272</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847619</id>
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      <id>15132209</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:54:14Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2532" sha1="6ytvsw9wxwdck454ff1dhpeuapl7m3q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|216|ACADIENSIS|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{fine block|&quot;Everyone versed in the history of this Province will readily recall that some of these boundaries have been subjects of serious international contentions, have exhausted the powers of the highest diplomacy, and have brought great nations within sight of war. A few are old, and interwoven with the earlier parts of our history, while others have had experience sufficiently remarkable or curious. Altogether, it is unlikely that any other country of equal size has had its boundaries so often or conspicuously in contention, so fully discussed by many and weighty commissions, so closely interlocked with its general history, or determined by so many distinct considerations as has the Province of New Brunswick.&quot;}}
{{dhr}}{{rule|5em}}{{dhr}}
&quot;Notes on the Natural History and Physiography of New Brunswick,&quot; by [[Author:William Francis Ganong|W. F. Ganong]], reprinted from the Bulletin of the Natural History Society, No. XX, 1901. 48 pages. Paper. Barnes &amp; Co., printers, St. John, {{nw|N. B.}} 

The table of contents, which is as follows, gives a concise idea of the interesting nature of the work: 

{{fine block/s}}
{{numbered list|start=44|On Forestry Literature Important for New Brunswick.|On the Physiographic History of the Tobique River.|Great Forest Fires in New Brunswick.|Measurements of Magnetic Dip in New Brunswick.|The Morphology of New Brunswick Water-falls.|The Origin of the New Brunswick Peneplains.|The Physiographic History of the Miramichi River.|On a Lunar Rainbow seen on Trowsers Lake.|On an Unusual Frost Effect of 1901 on the Tobique.|On a Hypsometric Section across Central New Brunswick|On the Physiographic History of the little Southwest Miramichi River.|On the Physiography of the Tuadook (Little Southwest Miramichi) Lake Region.|On the Physiography of the Milnagek (Island) Lake Basin.}}
{{fine block/e}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Book Notices&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}{{rule|12em}}{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;Query&quot; /&gt;{{c|{{xxl|{{blackletter|Query}}}}}}
{{rule|5em}}
Can any reader of {{sc|Acadiensis}} throw any light upon the origin of the name ''Loch Alva'', applied to. the largest lake on the Musquash river in the Inglewood Manor? The name first appears along with the series of names from [[Author:Walter Scott|Scott]]'s &quot;[[Ivanhoe]],&quot; given by Moses Perley in 1836, but Alva seems not to be in Scott, nor is there any Loch Alva in Scotland or anywhere. {{float right|[[Author:William Francis Ganong|{{sc|W. F. Ganong}}]].{{gap}}}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Query&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section end=&quot;Query&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>The Saga of Billy the Kid/Chapter 7</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title      = [[../]]  | author     = Walter Noble Burns  | translator =   | section    = An Eye for an Eye  | previous   = [[../Chapter 6/]]  | next       = [[../Chapter 8/]]  | notes      =  }}  &lt;pages index=&quot;Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu&quot; include=&quot;98-105&quot; /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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 | title      = [[../]]
 | author     = Walter Noble Burns
 | translator = 
 | section    = An Eye for an Eye
 | previous   = [[../Chapter 6/]]
 | next       = [[../Chapter 8/]]
 | notes      = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu&quot; include=&quot;98-105&quot; /&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Journal of geology (IA journalofgeology11893univ).pdf/187</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
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      <text bytes="5663" sha1="c3ny7d60vifep94a88mgnv77o2u779n" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;DarkShadowTNT&quot; /&gt;{{fine block|{{rvh|171|''THE VOLCANIC ROCKS OF THE ANDES.''|''THE JOURNAL OF GEOLOGY.''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|TABLE {{roman|1}}.}}
{| class=&quot;j-geol-table decorated datatable&quot; {{ts|bracetable|wnw|font-size:100%}}
|+ {{sc|Chemical Analyses of Volcanic Lavas from Colombia.}}
|-
! !! 1. 
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 2.
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 3.
! 4. !! 5. !! 6. !! 7. !! 8. !! 9. !! 10. !! 11. !! 12. !! 13. !! 14. !! 15.
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | SiO{{sub|2}}
| 56.91&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.948}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 57.24&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.954}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 59.13&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.985}}
| 60.05&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.000}}
| 61.04&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.017}}
| 61.09&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.018}}
| 61.26&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.021}}
| 63.36&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.056}}
| 63.50&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.058}}
| 63.56&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.059}}
| 65.39&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.089}}
| 66.03&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.100}}
| 67.30&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.121}}
| 68.41&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.140}}
| 69.56&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.159}}
|-
| TiO{{sub|2}}
|
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
| .85
| .45
| .95
|
|
|
| .95
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | Al{{sub|2}}O{{sub|3}}
| 18.18&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.178}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 18.02&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.176}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 17.00&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.166}}
| 15.59&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.152}}
| 15.72&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.154}}
| 15.96&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.156}}
| 16.15&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.158}}
| 16.35&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.160}}
| 15.34&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.150}}
| 15.43&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.151}}
| 15.49&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.151}}
| 14.57&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.142}}
| 17.55&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.172}}
| 16.08&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.156}}
| 15.65&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.153}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | Fe{{sub|2}}O{{sub|3}}
| 4.65&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.029}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 3.46&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.021}}
| rowspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|brace}} | {{brace3|6.25em|r|width=1em}}
| rowspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|bn|vmi}} | 7.03
| 6.95&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.043}}
| 5.03&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.031}}
| 4.29&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.026}}
| 4.39&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.027}}
| 2.12&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.013}}
| 3.22&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.020}}
| 3.02&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.018}}
| 2.80&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.017}}
| 2.57&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.016}}
| 1.47&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.009}}
| 2.12&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.013}}
| 1.24&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.007}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | FeO
| 3.61&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.050}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 4.13&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.057}}
| .65&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.009}}
| 2.15&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.029}}
| 2.03&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.028}}
| 2.66&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.037}}
| 3.05&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.042}}
| 1.71&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.023}}
| 2.43&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.033}}
| 1.99&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.027}}
| 1.19&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.016}}
| 1.67&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.023}}
| 1.44&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.020}}
| .91&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.011}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | MgO
| 3.49&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.087}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 3.77&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.094}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
| 3.61&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.090}}
| 3.61&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.090}}
| 1.06&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.026}}
| 2.91&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.073}}
| 3.28&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.082}}
| 2.50&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.062}}
| 2.55&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.064}}
| 2.06&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.051}}
| 1.89&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.047}}
| 1.04&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.026}}
| 1.14&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.028}}
| .82&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.020}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | CaO
| 7.11&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.127}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 7.78&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.138}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 6.67&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.119}}
| 6.43&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.114}}
| 5.34&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.095}}
| 6.66&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.115}}
| 5.75&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.102}}
| 4.79&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.085}}
| 4.31&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.077}}
| 4.33&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.077}}
| 4.48&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.080}}
| 3.38&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.060}}
| 3.48&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.062}}
| 3.52&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.063}}
| 2.52&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.045}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | Na{{sub|2}}O
| 4.02&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.064}}
| rowspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|brace}} | {{brace3|6.25em|r|width=1em}}
| rowspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|bn|vmi}} | 5.54
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 4.80&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.077}}
| 3.83&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.061}}
| 4.02&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.064}}
| 2.89&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.046}}
| 4.93&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.079}}
| 3.58&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.057}}
| 4.84&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.078}}
| 4.02&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.064}}
| 4.56&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.073}}
| 3.71&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.059}}
| 3.90&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.063}}
| 4.52&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.073}}
| 4.09&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.066}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | K{{sub|2}}O
| 1.61&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.017}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 1.37&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.014}}
| 1.76&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.018}}
| 2.66&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.028}}
| 2.51&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.026}}
| 2.65&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.028}}
| 2.92&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.031}}
| 2.75&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.029}}
| 2.41&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.025}}
| 1.59&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.016}}
| 2.70&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.029}}
| 2.13&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.022}}
| 2.24&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.023}}
| 2.19&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.023}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | P{{sub|2}}O{{sub|5}}
| .25
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
| .25
|
| .22
|
| .13
|
| .17
| .11
| .09
| .13
|
| .13
|-
| SO{{sub|3}}
|
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| .05
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| H{{sub|2}}O
| .36
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | .06
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | .16
| .47
| .58
| 1.44
| .15
| .99
| 1.99
| 1.09
| .55
| 2.07
| .80
| .33
| 2.92
|-
| {{ts|bt}} |
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.19
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|bt}} | 100.00
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|bt}} |
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.44
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.60
| {{ts|bt}} | 99.10
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.85
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.57
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.16
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.01
| {{ts|bt}} | 99.02
| {{ts|bt}} | 98.20
| {{ts|bt}} | 99.47
| {{ts|bt}} | 99.84
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.03
|}

# Pyroxene-andesite. {{nowrap|N. W.}} foot of the Purgatorio. Pasto.
# Olivine-pyroxene-andesite. Pasto.
# Pyroxene-andesite. Cerro negro de Mayasquer.
# Pyroxene-andesite. Azufral de Túquerres.
# Hornblende-andesite. Peñon de Pitayó.
# Hornblende-andesite. Loma de Ales.
# Pyroxene-andesite. Lava of 1869. Pasto.
# Hornblende-pyroxene-dacite, (with olivine and biotite){{sic}} Cerro negro de Mayasquer.
# Hornblende-pyroxene-dacite. Chiles.
# Hornblende-dacite. (With biotite and pyroxene.) Llanos de las Mesas, Tajumbina.
# Pyroxene-dacite. Cumbal.
# Hornblende-pyroxene-dacite. Hondon, Chiles.
# Hornblende-biotite-dacite. Azufral de Túquerres.
# Hornblende-biotite-dacite. Azufral de Túquerres.
# Hornblende-biotite-dacite. Loma de Ales.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>c3ny7d60vifep94a88mgnv77o2u779n</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 3/Book Notices</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847622</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132212</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:57:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>transclude</comment>
      <origin>15132212</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text bytes="445" sha1="55a0k2yxltdew073jpu9k5dsqqvbgcf" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = [[Acadiensis]], [[Acadiensis/Volume 2|Vol. II]], [[Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 3|No. 3]]
 | editor      = David Russell Jack
 | contributor =  | translator  = 
 | section     = Book Notices
 | previous    = [[../Hon. Sir A. G. Archibald/]]
 | next        = [[../Query/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}
{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Acadiensis Q2.djvu&quot; from=270 to=272 tosection=&quot;Book Notices&quot; /&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 3/Query</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847623</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132214</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:58:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>transclude poem</comment>
      <origin>15132214</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="502" sha1="dy466j4lena5jh44k1ojtsz9l4mviox" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = [[Acadiensis]], [[Acadiensis/Volume 2|Vol. II]], [[Acadiensis/Volume 2/Number 3|No. 3]]
 | editor      = David Russell Jack
 | contributor =  William Francis Ganong |contributor-display= W. F. Ganong
 | translator  = 
 | section     = Query
 | previous    = [[../Book Notices/]]
 | next        = [[../Wireless Station at Cape Breton/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}
{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Acadiensis Q2.djvu&quot; include=272 onlysection=&quot;Query&quot; /&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A voyage round the world, in His Britannic Majesty's sloop, Resolution, commanded by Capt. James Cook, during the years 1772, 3, 4, and 5 (IA b30413849 0001).pdf/433</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847624</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132215</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T19:58:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>McGhiever</username>
        <id>1938594</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1665" sha1="bcc7flz7b57c0skmu88zgg9qvvrs6z2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;McGhiever&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sp|A VOYAGE ROUND THE WORL|D.}}|403}}
{{sidenotes begin|side=right}}
{{right sidenote|{{center inline|{{sm|1773.&lt;br /&gt;{{sc|September}}.}}}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;that he was less successful than usual, as the representation which is inserted in captain Cook's own account of this voyage, is infinitely below the delicacy of the original, notwithstanding the excellence of Mr. Sherwin's engraving. But though it has lost the resemblance to Teinamai, it may serve as a specimen of the generality of features in this and the neighbouring islands, and gives a tolerable idea of a Taheitian boy about ten years old. Towards sun-set, all our noble visitors returned ashore, extremely well pleased with the reception which they had met with; a number of women of the lowest rank, however, remained on our decks, with a complaisance equal to that of the Taheitian girls, (see [[A Voyage Round the World (Forster)/Book 1/Chapter 9#336|pag. 336]].)

It was remarkable that they were not without some degree of vanity, as they never gave themselves any other name than that of ''tedùa'', (lady,) which is the title of their female nobility, and which, by way of eminence, is particularly applied to the princesses of these islands. If the king's sister happened to pass by while we sat in a house at Taheitee, the natives who surrounded us were warned to uncover their shoulders, by some one who spied her at a distance, simply saying ''tedua harremai'', (the lady comes hither!) or else they only said ''aree!'' which on such occasions always denoted one of the royal family. Our sailors, who did not understand the language, took it for granted that&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|their}}
{{sidenotes end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu/65</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847625</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132226</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:01:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1563" sha1="nkqd8r45jbuuuxmob5gppse2hbqvl4r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{c|( 51 )}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=follow|Thus, while as yet an Hope of Safety beams,
They steer the Ship between the dire extremes.
{{em}}Not half so dreadful to {{sc|Aeneas}}' eyes,
The Straits of Sicily were seen to rise;
When {{sc|Palinurus}} from the helm descry'd {{pline|335|r}}
The rocks of Scylla on the eastern side;
While tow'rd the west, with fatal yawn disclos'd,
His onward course, Charybdis' Gulf oppos'd;
The double Dangers he alternate view'd,
And cautiously the arduous path pursu'd. {{pline|340|r}}
{{em}}Thus they attempt the eastern shoals to clear,
Which close before the larboard &lt;ref&gt;Any distance directly abreast of the Ship, or on a line with her beams, is called on the Beam; before the Beam, is any angle measured from that right line towards the stem.&lt;/ref&gt;beam appear.
With terrible irruption bursting o'er
The marble cliffs, tremendous surges roar:
Along the vales the raging Tempest raves, {{pline|345|r}}
And hollow rocks repeat the roar of waves.
Should once her bottom strike that cruel shore,
The parting Ship that instant is no more;
Nor she alone, but with her all the Crew
Beyond Relief, are doom'd to perish too: {{pline|350|r}}
But hap'ly she escapes that dreadful strand,
Tho' scarce a furlong distant from the land:
Swift, as the arrow from the Scythian bow,
The sparkling surge divides beneath her prow;
And, forward hurry'd with impetuous haste, {{pline|355|r}}
Borne on the Tempest's wings, the Isle she past.
In all the racking Agony of Mind,
They Regions of Salvation leave behind.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
{{continues|So}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/205</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132228</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:02:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1824" sha1="74btdnjuwhoyozi7jyoexaahkaxp1as" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|199|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;should have children they'd be brown and would have to be humiliated like all other colored children.&quot;

She fell to drawing more designs.

&quot;We had a terrible time. I was completely alone in my fight. Father always follows mother's lead. Brother Tom refused to commit himself. Alice is just like mother—she really liked, I'm sure of it, John Hamilton, but because he was dark, she let him go for Howard Morris, whom I can't stand. For a long time I managed to keep it from Harley but the Christmas of his last year in college, mother told him she didn't favor his attentions to me, and told him why.&quot;

&quot;Goodness,&quot; Joanna breathed, &quot;that must have been awful.&quot;

&quot;Awful! It was unspeakable. And nothing I could say to Harley could destroy the effect of what she said. She must have put it up to him as to whether he thought he could compensate a wife for the estrangement of her family. You know how Harley was. We had always been a remarkably united family up to that time. He said: 'If your mother objected to my being poor I could tell her that I could change that, but when it comes to my color, I can't do anything with that and, by God, I wouldn't if I could.'

&quot;So that,&quot; Vera ended wryly, &quot;was the end of my young romance.&quot;

Bit by bit she made Joanna see the picture of her life since her break with her lover. Before then she had worked in her father's office, but now she was secretary to one of the heads of a big advertising agency. As she was an unusually swift stenographer and had a level head, she was getting along famously.

&quot;Of course they think I'm white. There are a lot of young men in the office and I flirt with them outrageously. At first I did it only to annoy mother, she hated it so. You know, the funny thing is she doesn't like white people any better than&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/68</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847627</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132232</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:05:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132232</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="679" sha1="ooyp20sl0jc5bko3v8b2cy6k641xj7e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|50|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Oh! Don’t say that—Father is such a dear.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

Did you like the jewels?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Yes, very much. I was very sorry when Father told me I must return them. He said it would not be nice for me to keep them. I even cried a little about it.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

Your father is only a beggar and a charlatan.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Oh, no, don’t scold him—he loves you so much.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

Let me kiss your hand{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Oh, no, it isn’t proper! One may kiss the hand only when one says how do you do or good-bye. But in the meantime you can’t.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/206</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132237</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:06:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1917" sha1="gjn6kmbr1h9qsif3wea8s59w0rfzmlq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|200|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I do—she just didn't want me to marry a dark man because, she says, in this country a white skin is such an asset.&quot;

&quot;Do you enjoy yourself going about?&quot;

&quot;Yes and no. When I began I did immensely. You can't imagine—I couldn't—the almost unlimited opportunities that those people have for work, for pleasure, for anything. As a white girl I've seen sights and places, yes, and eaten food that never even knew about when I used to go out with Harley. And then, too, Jan, you can't imagine the blessedness of no longer being uncertain whether you can enter such and such a hotel, or of getting a decent berth if you're going traveling or of little things like that, the sudden removal of thousands of pin-pricks, not only that, of inconveniences.&quot;

&quot;You must be very happy,&quot; Joanna said wistfully.

&quot;No, I'm not. They aren't, either. That's the funny part. Oh, of course I suppose nobody is actually happy, but I do think that colored people, when they're let alone long enough to have a good time, know how to enjoy themselves better than any other people in the world. It's a gift.&quot;

&quot;I should think you'd drop it all, Vera.&quot;

&quot;I would if it weren't for the sense of freedom. It's wonderful to be able to do as you like. Sometimes I think I will drop it, then I think: 'Oh, pshaw, what difference does it make?' Without Harley I'm bound to be unhappy, anyway, even if I do go back to my own. Since I can't have happiness I might just as well take up my abode where I can have the most fun and comfort even though it's making me—well, no saint, I can tell you.&quot; She laughed recklessly. &quot;I wish I were like you, Joanna.&quot;

&quot;What do you mean?&quot;

&quot;Well, you know—here ever since you were little you've had Peter Bye right at your beck and call—you must have loved him, Jan, he was so everlastingly good-looking, and charming, too, we all thought. I remember he took me to a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The adventures of Captain Bonneville (IA adventurescaptai00irvi).pdf/122</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132238</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:06:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>McGhiever</username>
        <id>1938594</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="2556" sha1="cjp9rul4n8kv1wii6nghmadkj7nbrop" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;McGhiever&quot; /&gt;{{rh|116|''ADVENTURES OF CAPTAIN BONNEVILLE.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;skirt this plain, and, in Captain Bonneville's opinion, were formerly connected, until rent asunder by some convulsion of nature. Far to the east the Three Tetons lift their heads sublimely, and dominate this wide sea of lava—one of the most striking features of a wilderness where everything seems on a scale of stern and simple grandeur.

We look forward with impatience for some able geologist to explore this sublime but almost unknown region.

It was not until the 25th of April that the two parties of trappers broke up their encampments, and undertook to cross over the southwest end of the mountain by a pass explored by their scouts. From various points of the mountain they commanded boundless prospects of the lava plain, stretching away in cold and gloomy barrenness as far as the eye could reach. On the evening of the 26th they reached the plain west of the mountain, watered by the Malade, the Boisée, and other streams, which comprised the contemplated trapping-ground.

The country about the Boisée (or Woody) River is extolled by Captain Bonneville as the most enchanting he had seen in the Far West, presenting the mingled grandeur and beauty of mountain and plain, of bright running streams and vast grassy meadows waving to the breeze.

We shall not follow the captain throughout his trapping campaign, which lasted until the beginning of June, nor detail all the manœuvres of the rival trapping parties and their various schemes to outwit and out-trap each other. Suffice it to say that, after having visited and camped about various streams with various success, Captain Bonneville set forward early in June for the appointed rendezvous at the caches. On the way, he treated his party to a grand buffalo hunt. The scouts had reported numerous herds in a plain beyond an intervening height. There was an immediate halt; the fleetest horses were forthwith mounted and the party advanced to the summit of the hill. Hence they beheld the great plain below absolutely swarming with buffalo. Captain Bonneville now appointed the place where he would encamp; and toward which the hunters were to drive the game. He cautioned the latter to advance slowly, reserving the strength and speed of the horses until within a moderate distance of the herds. Twenty-two horsemen descended cautiously into the plain, comformably to these directions. &quot;It was a beautiful sight,&quot; says the captain, &quot;to see the runners, as they are called, advancing in column, at a slow trot, until within two hundred&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Index:Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf/styles.css</title>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:07:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
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      <comment>use templatestyles</comment>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:10:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:11:08Z</timestamp>
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._table th {
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      <contributor>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Author talk:Vishnampet R. Ramachandra Dikshitar</title>
    <ns>103</ns>
    <id>4847631</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132242</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:07:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* PD works */ new section</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="251" sha1="d4nlr42omah992f806gcwj0i9pz9nf0" xml:space="preserve">== PD works ==

What works were before 1930 ? None are listed.

It looks to me as if the listed works were still in copyright in India in 1996 and so are not PD in the US. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:07, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories/Makar's Dream</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847632</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132243</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:08:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{other translations|Makar's Dream}} {{header  | title    = [[../|The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories]]  | author   = Vladimir Korolenko  | translator = Marian Fell  | year = 1916  | section  = Makar's Dream  | previous = [[../Introduction/]]  | next     = [[../The Murmuring Forest/]]  | notes    =   }} &lt;pages index=&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot; include=25 /&gt; {{ppb}} &lt;pages index=&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot; from=27 to=72 /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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      <text bytes="467" sha1="0qui0rb7iu6kdj8c0f1trv2fqe202gd" xml:space="preserve">{{other translations|Makar's Dream}}
{{header
 | title    = [[../|The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories]]
 | author   = Vladimir Korolenko
 | translator = Marian Fell
 | year = 1916
 | section  = Makar's Dream
 | previous = [[../Introduction/]]
 | next     = [[../The Murmuring Forest/]]
 | notes    =  
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot; include=25 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot; from=27 to=72 /&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132244</id>
      <parentid>15132243</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:08:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>+ smallrefs</comment>
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      <text bytes="483" sha1="jknvir1tjuimt9bk0huzn3an3vls9ks" xml:space="preserve">{{other translations|Makar's Dream}}
{{header
 | title    = [[../|The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories]]
 | author   = Vladimir Korolenko
 | translator = Marian Fell
 | year = 1916
 | section  = Makar's Dream
 | previous = [[../Introduction/]]
 | next     = [[../The Murmuring Forest/]]
 | notes    =  
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot; include=25 /&gt;
{{ppb}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu&quot; from=27 to=72 /&gt;


{{smallrefs}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/207</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847633</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132245</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:09:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prospectprospekt</username>
        <id>2949947</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="1885" sha1="ijo0t3ikahafnv2da8rzhhvl7u1ckhq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|201|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;movie one Christmas. Then you fussed with him or something ―-some of your high-brow stuff I suppose—and you send him off without winking an eyelash. How do you stand it?&quot;

Joanna was cautious. &quot;Of course I have my work. I do miss Peter though—sometimes.&quot;

&quot;Sometimes! Girl, you aren't human. Well, being heartless isn't bad! What do you want to do, go to the 'Dance of The Nations' down at the District Line Theater?&quot;

But Joanna wanted a chance to think, so on the pretext of having to return to the Library, she left Vera. She realized the tragedy of her friend's case, the awful emptiness that had come into her life. Hadn't her own life been affected in the same way?

A bus stopped before her and she mounted it, her thoughts weaving mechanically. She did not blame Vera at all for the change in her mode of living. In those first few months after Peter had left her she had wondered often how she could go on with life. For a long while she had existed simply from day to day, paying an exaggerated attention to small happenings, making engagements with people whom she had scarcely noticed before, doing anything to get away from the weariness of her thoughts. Many a night she had spent meditating on some ''coup'', some reckless expenditure of energy and interest no matter how silly, how scandalous, so long as it took her out of herself.

She had even tried flirting, a field hitherto unthought of. As it was she had been too kind to Harry Portor; of late she had consciously avoided him because she knew only too well what he meant to ask of her the next time they were alone. She hated to hurt him but that seemed inevitable, for her heart held not the slightest fraction of love for him.

Oh, Peter! Peter!

As she rode up Fifth Avenue under the starry reaches of the sky, beneath the tender budding of April trees, her desper-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1883" sha1="4azbxghv97a35hmyh2mxkfmxu3tyt7u" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|201|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;movie one Christmas. Then you fussed with him or something—some of your high-brow stuff I suppose—and you send him off without winking an eyelash. How do you stand it?&quot;

Joanna was cautious. &quot;Of course I have my work. I do miss Peter though—sometimes.&quot;

&quot;Sometimes! Girl, you aren't human. Well, being heartless isn't bad! What do you want to do, go to the 'Dance of The Nations' down at the District Line Theater?&quot;

But Joanna wanted a chance to think, so on the pretext of having to return to the Library, she left Vera. She realized the tragedy of her friend's case, the awful emptiness that had come into her life. Hadn't her own life been affected in the same way?

A bus stopped before her and she mounted it, her thoughts weaving mechanically. She did not blame Vera at all for the change in her mode of living. In those first few months after Peter had left her she had wondered often how she could go on with life. For a long while she had existed simply from day to day, paying an exaggerated attention to small happenings, making engagements with people whom she had scarcely noticed before, doing anything to get away from the weariness of her thoughts. Many a night she had spent meditating on some ''coup'', some reckless expenditure of energy and interest no matter how silly, how scandalous, so long as it took her out of herself.

She had even tried flirting, a field hitherto unthought of. As it was she had been too kind to Harry Portor; of late she had consciously avoided him because she knew only too well what he meant to ask of her the next time they were alone. She hated to hurt him but that seemed inevitable, for her heart held not the slightest fraction of love for him.

Oh, Peter! Peter!

As she rode up Fifth Avenue under the starry reaches of the sky, beneath the tender budding of April trees, her desper-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Role of Federal Military Forces in Domestic Disorders, 1789-1878.pdf/28</title>
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on 30 August, the debate almost echoed that of the seventeenth. John Dickinson of Pennsylvania moved to strike out the clause requiring &quot;the application of its Legislature&quot; as a prerequisite to federal interference in a state to protect it against domestic violence. &quot;He thought it of essential importance to tranquility of the U-S. that they should in all cases suppress domestic violence which may proceed from the State Legislature itself, or from disputes between the two branches where such exist.&quot; But Dickinson's motion was voted down eight states to three. Then a motion to strike &quot;domestic violence&quot; and insert &quot;insurrection&quot; was also voted down six to five. Dickinson finally won approval for inserting the words &quot;or Executive&quot; after the words &quot;application of the Legislature&quot; on the grounds that &quot;the occasion itself might hinder the legislature from meeting.&quot; Luther Martin's move to make this more explicit by permitting the state executive to act only &quot;in the recess of the legislature&quot; was voted down on 30 August only to be revived in substance on 15 September when the clause was put into final form. As Article IV, Section 4, of the finished Constitution submitted to the states for ratification, it read, &quot;The United States shall guarantee to every state in this Union a Republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion, and, on the application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref21&quot;/&gt;

Meanwhile, the military clauses of the Constitution were hammered out in a debate in which the opposition to peacetime standing armies and to federal control over the militia asserted itself strongly. A move by Elbridge Gerry and Luther Martin to limit any peacetime army to a specific number of troops was defeated, in part because George Washington, the chairman, wondered in a stage whisper whether any potential enemy could be expected to act likewise. Eventually, the members drafted a compromise clause that limited Congress' power to &quot;raise and support armies&quot; by providing that no appropriation should be for a longer period than two years, thus assuring that each newly elected House of Representatives should have an opportunity to exercise its own will.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref22&quot;/&gt;

On 18 August the Convention debated the question of national versus state control of the militia. On that day, in the midst of the debate over standing armies, George Mason of Virginia moved that Congress be granted additional power &quot;to make laws for the regulation and discipline of the Militia of the several States reserving to the States the appointment of the officers,&quot; citing as his reason the need for uniformity in the militia throughout the nation. Mason, apparently unwittingly, raised an issue that touched sensitive nerves in the Convention Hall. If Congress were granted exclusive power to raise armies as well as exclusive control over the state militias, then what military power would remain in the hands of state governments? Roger Sherman of Connecticut, Madison recorded, &quot;took notice that the States might want their Militia for defense agst invasions and insurrections, and for enforcing obedience to their laws. They will not give up this point.&quot; Elbridge Gerry went further. He thought &quot;this was the last point remaining to be surrendered. If it be agreed to by the Convention, the plan would have as black a mark as was set on Cain. He had no such confidence in the Genl Govt as some Gentlemen possessed, and believed it would be found the States have not.&quot; Mason, who had never intended to give the national government exclusive control over


{{Reflist|refs=

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref21&quot;&gt;The material on the debates is all based on Madison's notes and the official ''Convention Journal''. Ibid., pp. 466-67, 621.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref22&quot;&gt;&lt;Ibid., pp. 329-30./ref&gt;
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on 30 August, the debate almost echoed that of the seventeenth. John Dickinson of Pennsylvania moved to strike out the clause requiring &quot;the application of its Legislature&quot; as a prerequisite to federal interference in a state to protect it against domestic violence. &quot;He thought it of essential importance to tranquility of the U-S. that they should in all cases suppress domestic violence which may proceed from the State Legislature itself, or from disputes between the two branches where such exist.&quot; But Dickinson's motion was voted down eight states to three. Then a motion to strike &quot;domestic violence&quot; and insert &quot;insurrection&quot; was also voted down six to five. Dickinson finally won approval for inserting the words &quot;or Executive&quot; after the words &quot;application of the Legislature&quot; on the grounds that &quot;the occasion itself might hinder the legislature from meeting.&quot; Luther Martin's move to make this more explicit by permitting the state executive to act only &quot;in the recess of the legislature&quot; was voted down on 30 August only to be revived in substance on 15 September when the clause was put into final form. As Article IV, Section 4, of the finished Constitution submitted to the states for ratification, it read, &quot;The United States shall guarantee to every state in this Union a Republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion, and, on the application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref21&quot;/&gt;

Meanwhile, the military clauses of the Constitution were hammered out in a debate in which the opposition to peacetime standing armies and to federal control over the militia asserted itself strongly. A move by Elbridge Gerry and Luther Martin to limit any peacetime army to a specific number of troops was defeated, in part because George Washington, the chairman, wondered in a stage whisper whether any potential enemy could be expected to act likewise. Eventually, the members drafted a compromise clause that limited Congress' power to &quot;raise and support armies&quot; by providing that no appropriation should be for a longer period than two years, thus assuring that each newly elected House of Representatives should have an opportunity to exercise its own will.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref22&quot;/&gt;

On 18 August the Convention debated the question of national versus state control of the militia. On that day, in the midst of the debate over standing armies, George Mason of Virginia moved that Congress be granted additional power &quot;to make laws for the regulation and discipline of the Militia of the several States reserving to the States the appointment of the officers,&quot; citing as his reason the need for uniformity in the militia throughout the nation. Mason, apparently unwittingly, raised an issue that touched sensitive nerves in the Convention Hall. If Congress were granted exclusive power to raise armies as well as exclusive control over the state militias, then what military power would remain in the hands of state governments? Roger Sherman of Connecticut, Madison recorded, &quot;took notice that the States might want their Militia for defense agst invasions and insurrections, and for enforcing obedience to their laws. They will not give up this point.&quot; Elbridge Gerry went further. He thought &quot;this was the last point remaining to be surrendered. If it be agreed to by the Convention, the plan would have as black a mark as was set on Cain. He had no such confidence in the Genl Govt as some Gentlemen possessed, and believed it would be found the States have not.&quot; Mason, who had never intended to give the national government exclusive control over


{{Reflist|refs=

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref21&quot;&gt;The material on the debates is all based on Madison's notes and the official ''Convention Journal''. Ibid., pp. 466-67, 621.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref22&quot;&gt;&lt;Ibid., pp. 329-30.&lt;/ref&gt;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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on 30 August, the debate almost echoed that of the seventeenth. John Dickinson of Pennsylvania moved to strike out the clause requiring &quot;the application of its Legislature&quot; as a prerequisite to federal interference in a state to protect it against domestic violence. &quot;He thought it of essential importance to tranquility of the U-S. that they should in all cases suppress domestic violence which may proceed from the State Legislature itself, or from disputes between the two branches where such exist.&quot; But Dickinson's motion was voted down eight states to three. Then a motion to strike &quot;domestic violence&quot; and insert &quot;insurrection&quot; was also voted down six to five. Dickinson finally won approval for inserting the words &quot;or Executive&quot; after the words &quot;application of the Legislature&quot; on the grounds that &quot;the occasion itself might hinder the legislature from meeting.&quot; Luther Martin's move to make this more explicit by permitting the state executive to act only &quot;in the recess of the legislature&quot; was voted down on 30 August only to be revived in substance on 15 September when the clause was put into final form. As Article IV, Section 4, of the finished Constitution submitted to the states for ratification, it read, &quot;The United States shall guarantee to every state in this Union a Republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion, and, on the application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref21&quot;/&gt;

Meanwhile, the military clauses of the Constitution were hammered out in a debate in which the opposition to peacetime standing armies and to federal control over the militia asserted itself strongly. A move by Elbridge Gerry and Luther Martin to limit any peacetime army to a specific number of troops was defeated, in part because George Washington, the chairman, wondered in a stage whisper whether any potential enemy could be expected to act likewise. Eventually, the members drafted a compromise clause that limited Congress' power to &quot;raise and support armies&quot; by providing that no appropriation should be for a longer period than two years, thus assuring that each newly elected House of Representatives should have an opportunity to exercise its own will.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref22&quot;/&gt;

On 18 August the Convention debated the question of national versus state control of the militia. On that day, in the midst of the debate over standing armies, George Mason of Virginia moved that Congress be granted additional power &quot;to make laws for the regulation and discipline of the Militia of the several States reserving to the States the appointment of the officers,&quot; citing as his reason the need for uniformity in the militia throughout the nation. Mason, apparently unwittingly, raised an issue that touched sensitive nerves in the Convention Hall. If Congress were granted exclusive power to raise armies as well as exclusive control over the state militias, then what military power would remain in the hands of state governments? Roger Sherman of Connecticut, Madison recorded, &quot;took notice that the States might want their Militia for defense agst invasions and insurrections, and for enforcing obedience to their laws. They will not give up this point.&quot; Elbridge Gerry went further. He thought &quot;this was the last point remaining to be surrendered. If it be agreed to by the Convention, the plan would have as black a mark as was set on Cain. He had no such confidence in the Genl Govt as some Gentlemen possessed, and believed it would be found the States have not.&quot; Mason, who had never intended to give the national government exclusive control over


{{Reflist|refs=

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref21&quot;&gt;The material on the debates is all based on Madison's notes and the official ''Convention Journal''. Ibid., pp. 466-67, 621.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref22&quot;&gt;Ibid., pp. 329-30.&lt;/ref&gt;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:There Is Confusion.djvu/208</title>
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      <text bytes="1536" sha1="2j3cdrhzoqohwaoaavs9v6vj7k4mxr0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Prospectprospekt&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|202|There Is Confusion}}{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ate longing quickened to a sudden resolve. She would write to Maggie—Maggie, who could not possibly love Peter. And even if she did, she could not love him as she—Joanna—loved him. Why, there had been Philip once, and then Henderson Neal!-- Whereas Peter had been the only love of her own life.

She would write to Maggie, very clearly, very frankly and she would beg her to let him go. It all seemed simple enough. And then she and Peter would be happy. She would make him love her again, worship her. And &quot;Peter,&quot; she would tell him, &quot;never another unkind word, I'll be a new Joanna, darling.&quot;

Her father's house, its windows darkened, loomed up before her. Straight up to her own room she sped, not stopping to enter Sylvia's apartments, although the sound of laughing voices penetrated to her.

Alone at the little flat-topped desk, she took out pen and paper and began the letter—&quot;Dear Maggie&quot;— But that was what she had done years ago,—written to Maggie to give up Philip. That was in the unconscious selfishness of youth. Now was she to write her again to give up Peter? Her courage oozed away, left her helpless. She looked at the pen, put it carefully away on the rack, slipped the sheet of paper back in the pigeonhole. She might go down to Philadelphia to visit Alice Talbert. Yes, she would do that very soon. And then maybe she would see Maggie Ellersley—on the street, or even go and call on her. Undoubtedly it was better to discuss such personal matters face to face.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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She would write to Maggie, very clearly, very frankly and she would beg her to let him go. It all seemed simple enough. And then she and Peter would be happy. She would make him love her again, worship her. And &quot;Peter,&quot; she would tell him, &quot;never another unkind word, I'll be a new Joanna, darling.&quot;

Her father's house, its windows darkened, loomed up before her. Straight up to her own room she sped, not stopping to enter Sylvia's apartments, although the sound of laughing voices penetrated to her.

Alone at the little flat-topped desk, she took out pen and paper and began the letter—&quot;Dear Maggie&quot;— But that was what she had done years ago,—written to Maggie to give up Philip. That was in the unconscious selfishness of youth. Now was she to write her again to give up Peter? Her courage oozed away, left her helpless. She looked at the pen, put it carefully away on the rack, slipped the sheet of paper back in the pigeonhole. She might go down to Philadelphia to visit Alice Talbert. Yes, she would do that very soon. And then maybe she would see Maggie Ellersley—on the street, or even go and call on her. Undoubtedly it was better to discuss such personal matters face to face.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{csc|He}}  [''Thinking it over'']: Baron? [''Laughs''.] Then the Baron burst?  {{csc|Jackson}}  Stop it! It's shameless {{...}} A man died and you What's the matter with you, {{csc|Нe}}?  {{csc|He}} [''Stands up, lifted to his feet by the last gleam of consciousness and life, speaks strongly and indignantly'']: You loved her so much, Baron? So much? My Consuelo? And you want to be ahead of me even ''there?'' No! I am coming. We shall prove then whose sh...</comment>
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[''Thinking it over'']: Baron? [''Laughs''.] Then the Baron burst?

{{csc|Jackson}}

Stop it! It's shameless {{...}} A man died and you What's the matter with you, {{csc|Нe}}?

{{csc|He}}
[''Stands up, lifted to his feet by the last gleam of consciousness and life, speaks strongly and indignantly'']: You loved her so much, Baron? So much? My Consuelo? And you want to be ahead of me even ''there?'' No! I am coming. We shall prove then whose she is to be for ever{{...|4}}

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''He catches at his throat, falls on his back. People run to him. General agitation''.]{{dent/e}}

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[''Thinking it over'']: Baron? [''Laughs''.] Then the Baron burst?

{{csc|Jackson}}

Stop it! It's shameless {{...}} A man died and you What's the matter with you, {{sc|Нe}}?

{{csc|He}}
[''Stands up, lifted to his feet by the last gleam of consciousness and life, speaks strongly and indignantly'']: You loved her so much, Baron? So much? My Consuelo? And you want to be ahead of me even ''there?'' No! I am coming. We shall prove then whose she is to be for ever{{...|4}}

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[''Thinking it over'']: Baron? [''Laughs''.] Then the Baron burst?

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Stop it! It’s shameless {{...}} A man died and you What’s the matter with you, {{sc|Нe}}?

{{csc|He}}
[''Stands up, lifted to his feet by the last gleam of consciousness and life, speaks strongly and indignantly'']: You loved her so much, Baron? So much? My Consuelo? And you want to be ahead of me even ''there?'' No! I am coming. We shall prove then whose she is to be for ever{{...|4}}

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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|ACT IV}}  {{italic block/s}} {{dent/s|2em|-2em}} Music in the ring. More disorder in the room than usual. All kinds of actors' costumes hanging on pegs and lying in the corners. On the table a bouquet of fiery-red roses, put there by some careless hand. At the entrance, near the arch, three bareback riders are smoking and chattering; they are all minor actors. All part their hair the same way; two wear small moustaches; the third one is clean-shaven...</comment>
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{{italic block/s}}
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
Music in the ring. More disorder in the room than usual. All kinds of actors' costumes hanging on pegs and lying in the corners. On the table a bouquet of fiery-red roses, put there by some careless hand. At the entrance, near the arch, three bareback riders are smoking and chattering; they are all minor actors. All part their hair the same way; two wear small moustaches; the third one is clean-shaven with a face like a bull-dog.
{{dent/e}}
{{italic block/e}}

{{csc|The Clean-Shaven One}}
Go on, Henry! Ten thousand francs! It's too much even for the Baron.

{{csc|The Second}}
How much are roses now?

{{csc|The Shaven}}
I don't know. In winter they are certainly more expensive, but still Henry talks nonsense. thousand!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|145}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{italic block/s}}
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
Music in the ring. More disorder in the room than usual. All kinds of actors' costumes hanging on pegs and lying in the corners. On the table a bouquet of fiery-red roses, put there by some careless hand. At the entrance, near the arch, three bareback riders are smoking and chattering; they are all minor actors. All part their hair the same way; two wear small moustaches; the third one is clean-shaven with a face like a bull-dog.
{{dent/e}}
{{italic block/e}}

{{csc|The Clean-Shaven One}}
Go on, Henry! Ten thousand francs! It's too much even for the Baron.

{{csc|The Second}}
How much are roses now?

{{csc|The Shaven}}
I don't know. In winter they are certainly more expensive, but still Henry talks nonsense. thousand!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|145}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{italic block/s}}
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
Music in the ring. More disorder in the room than usual. All kinds of actors’ costumes hanging on pegs and lying in the corners. On the table a bouquet of fiery-red roses, put there by some careless hand. At the entrance, near the arch, three bareback riders are smoking and chattering; they are all minor actors. All part their hair the same way; two wear small moustaches; the third one is clean-shaven with a face like a bull-dog.
{{dent/e}}
{{italic block/e}}

{{csc|The Clean-Shaven One}}
Go on, Henry! Ten thousand francs! It’s too much even for the Baron.

{{csc|The Second}}
How much are roses now?

{{csc|The Shaven}}
I don’t know. In winter they are certainly more expensive, but still Henry talks nonsense. thousand!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|145}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Acadiensis Q2.djvu/138</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847639</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132270</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:19:41Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <text bytes="2231" sha1="qu1a2dq78625g484v53inbkmhjnul76" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|108|ACADIENSIS|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;while the others had been digging out the snow. M. Henaut and the Indian cut and gathered wood enough to keep the party warm during the night. After supper was over they were a little disappointed at the loss of their brandy, which had nearly all ran out of a hole in the barrel, although they had taken care to gum it well. The party did not discover their loss until they wanted a glass after their meal. 

The little that was left was, however, at once distributed among them, after which they laid down on the boughs, with their blankets around them, and slept well, the bright moon and stars shining directly on them.

After breakfast next morning, and after having adjusted their packs and put on their snow-shoes, they again continued their journey, following the shores of the Nepisiguit to a rapid then known as ''Seals Rapid''. From this there were two trails to the Forks of the Miramichi, one which lead through the burnt land being shorter than the other, but more difficult to follow. Father LeClerc being very anxious to reach his new mission field as soon as possible, resolved to take the route which lead through the burnt woods, which district we will allow him to describe in his own words: 

{{fine block/s}}
&quot;In order that what is meant by the burnt woods may be understood, I may tell you that one day, at a time of extraordinary drought, the sky seeming all on fire, full of storms and thunderings, which roared and re-echoed from all parts, the lightning seized npon not only all of the woods and forests between the Miramichi and Nepisiguit rivers, but also burned and destroyed more than one hundred and fifty leagues of the country, so that nothing was to be seen but the blackened trunks of very high trees, whose frightful sterilty bore the marks of a general and altogether surprising conflagration. This vast extent of country is, during the winter, always covered by snow, nothing to be seen there but bushes and small shrubs, which seem more like islands two or three leagues distant from each other than the woods or forests of Canada. In a word, this fire was so furious and violent that the flames darted from one bank of the river, seizing upon the other,&lt;noinclude&gt;{{fine block/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Acadiensis Q2.djvu/139</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847640</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132273</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:21:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="2195" sha1="19utzbrjhcwymal1ozlxlkwzkgcjt61" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh||LOST IN THE FORESTS OF ACADIA|109}}
{{fine block/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;whence it happens that the moose and beaver did not make their appearance there until long after this sad accident. The greatest trouble which this gives to voyagers who traverse those burnt woods is that they can neither find a spot to camp in, sheltered from the wind, nor wood suitable to warm one's self with. Yet it was in these sad solitudes, a thousand times more frightful than those of Arabia Petraea, that we were wandering, because we wished to follow the tracks of some Indians who were hunting beaver, and, desiring to examine the turns and detours of these Indians and of these animals, we took a wrong road, and strayed from that which was without doubt the more correct and certain.&quot;
{{fine block/e}}

For three days the party wandered in this desert until they became nearly exhausted from fatigue and suffering. The next day they continued their route under additional difficulties, owing to a great quantity of snow which had fallen during the preceding night, and in which their snowshoes sank deeply; the fatigue and want of food, having but a morsel of bread to eat each day, the Indian and Father LeClerc became exhausted, while the poor squaw and her little child excited the compassion of all.

M. Henaut was the only one who preserved his courage, breaking the road with his snowshoes through the new fallen snow, the Indian following with his wife and child behind him, Father LeClerc being the last of the troop as one most unused to this life. At this point M. Henaut disclosed to the father that they had been lost for three days, and that the party must now go where it pleased God to conduct them. 

It was then snowing, and they had to continue walking until night in order to find a place to camp in. For three days they had eaten only a small morsel of bread in the evening; this failed and they were compelled to have recourse to the flour which the Indian had in his pack, and they were reduced to the necessity of thinning two or three pinches of it in the morning and evening with a kettle full of boiling snow water, which it seemed to whiten rather than to nourish them. M. Henaut consoled Father&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Acadiensis Q2.djvu/140</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847641</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132277</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:23:15Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
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      <text bytes="2012" sha1="bzyl89siff9qsl6xqkemfhjapgemhvx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|110|ACADIENSIS|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;LeClerc by telling him that if the worst came he had two pair of Indian moccasins and a piece of old hide, and that they could boil and eat them together.

That night there was a cold north wind which pierced them to the heart, and as they could find no wood to warm themselves with during the night, they arose and left their camp before day. Here Father LeClerc says: &quot;I came very near being swallowed up in a deep ditch which was covered with snow, from which I was drawn out with great difficulty. I may, indeed, say that I had been done for had I not, by a singular happiness, encountered a large tree which was across the ditch, and on which I remained awaiting the assistance which was given me to get out of this horrible danger in which I saw myself exposed to within a finger's breadth of death.&quot; He had hardly gone a gun shot from this, and was crossing a small river when one of his snowshoes broke and he fell into the water up to his waist, and thus compelling the party to camp in order that he might dry his clothes and prevent his being frozen. Here their flour failing, hunger drove them away at early morning to search for what providence would give them. They walked the whole day making, however, but little progress. Here Father LeClerc was most agreeably startled on hearing a cry of joy and surprise from M. Henaut and the Indian, who had at that moment discovered the fresh track of an Indian's snow-shoe which they followed, and although these Indians seldom return on the snow-shoe track which they make in the morning, this one fortunately did it, and although surprised at seeing the new tracks, but observing that the tracks made were those of very tired people, he concluded to follow them up so as to afford as early relief to the sufferers as possible. Here the Father says, &quot;A kind of muffled sound, caused by the shaking of his snow-shoes and the movement of the branches across which he was obliged to walk, compelled me to turn my head so as to discover&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/69</title>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{csc|Baron}} Everybody is in love with you, that is why you and your father make such a fuss about yourselves. Who is that new clown they call HE? I don't like him, he's too shrewd a beast{{...|4}} Is he in love with you, too? I noticed the way he looked at you{{...|4}}  {{csc|Consuelo}}  [''Laughing'']: Nothing of the kind. He is so funny! He got fifty-two slaps yesterday. We counted them. Think of it, fifty-two slaps! Father said, &quot;if they had only be...</comment>
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      <text bytes="843" sha1="e78nss6y31hv77gmqlxo88a770ad5je" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|51|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|51}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{csc|Baron}}
Everybody is in love with you, that is why you and your father make such a fuss about yourselves. Who is that new clown they call HE? I don't like him, he's too shrewd a beast{{...|4}} Is he in love with you, too? I noticed the way he looked at you{{...|4}}

{{csc|Consuelo}}

[''Laughing'']: Nothing of the kind. He is so funny! He got fifty-two slaps yesterday. We counted them. Think of it, fifty-two slaps! Father said, &quot;if they had only been gold pieces.&quot;

{{csc|Baron}}
And Bezano, Consuelo{{...|4}} Do you like him?

{{csc|Consuelo}}
Yes, very much. He is so good-looking. He says that Bezano and I are the most beautiful couple in the world. He calls him Adam, and me Eve. But that's improper, isn't it? He is so improper.

{{csc|Baron}}
And does {{cs|He}} speak to you very often?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="843" sha1="f7e11nha4haxxhhu1g2wbqe19h31tv7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|51|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|51}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{csc|Baron}}
Everybody is in love with you, that is why you and your father make such a fuss about yourselves. Who is that new clown they call HE? I don't like him, he's too shrewd a beast{{...|4}} Is he in love with you, too? I noticed the way he looked at you{{...|4}}

{{csc|Consuelo}}

[''Laughing'']: Nothing of the kind. He is so funny! He got fifty-two slaps yesterday. We counted them. Think of it, fifty-two slaps! Father said, &quot;if they had only been gold pieces.&quot;

{{csc|Baron}}
And Bezano, Consuelo{{...|4}} Do you like him?

{{csc|Consuelo}}
Yes, very much. He is so good-looking. He says that Bezano and I are the most beautiful couple in the world. He calls him Adam, and me Eve. But that's improper, isn't it? He is so improper.

{{csc|Baron}}
And does {{sc|He}} speak to you very often?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Everybody is in love with you, that is why you and your father make such a fuss about yourselves. Who is that new clown they call HE? I don't like him, he's too shrewd a beast{{...|4}} Is he in love with you, too? I noticed the way he looked at you{{...|4}}

{{csc|Consuelo}}

[''Laughing'']: Nothing of the kind. He is so funny! He got fifty-two slaps yesterday. We counted them. Think of it, fifty-two slaps! Father said, &quot;if they had only been gold pieces.&quot;

{{csc|Baron}}
And Bezano, Consuelo{{...|4}} Do you like him?

{{csc|Consuelo}}
Yes, very much. He is so good-looking. He says that Bezano and I are the most beautiful couple in the world. He calls him Adam, and me Eve. But that's improper, isn't it? He is so improper.

{{csc|Baron}}
And does {{sc|He}} speak to you very often?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="847" sha1="aevy5x9tq7a7gxb5a4zh02ikdfw79yw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|51|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|51}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{csc|Baron}}
Everybody is in love with you, that is why you and your father make such a fuss about yourselves. Who is that new clown they call HE? I don't like him, he's too shrewd a beast{{...|4}} Is he in love with you, too? I noticed the way he looked at you{{...|4}}

{{csc|Consuelo}}

[''Laughing'']: Nothing of the kind. He is so funny! He got fifty-two slaps yesterday. We counted them. Think of it, fifty-two slaps! Father said, &quot;if they had only been gold pieces.&quot;

{{csc|Baron}}
And Bezano, Consuelo{{...|4}} Do you like him?

{{csc|Consuelo}}
Yes, very much. He is so good-looking. He says that Bezano and I are the most beautiful couple in the world. He calls him Adam, and me Eve. But that's improper, isn't it? He is ''so'' improper.

{{csc|Baron}}
And does {{sc|He}} speak to you very often?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="854" sha1="lrcatfhvm70i95ya5z13c03pn7q6pom" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|51|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|51}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{csc|Baron}}
Everybody is in love with you, that is why you and your father make such a fuss about yourselves. Who is that new clown they call {{sc|He}}? I don't like him, he's too shrewd a beast{{...|4}} Is he in love with you, too? I noticed the way he looked at you{{...|4}}

{{csc|Consuelo}}

[''Laughing'']: Nothing of the kind. He is so funny! He got fifty-two slaps yesterday. We counted them. Think of it, fifty-two slaps! Father said, &quot;if they had only been gold pieces.&quot;

{{csc|Baron}}
And Bezano, Consuelo{{...|4}} Do you like him?

{{csc|Consuelo}}
Yes, very much. He is so good-looking. He says that Bezano and I are the most beautiful couple in the world. He calls him Adam, and me Eve. But that's improper, isn't it? He is ''so'' improper.

{{csc|Baron}}
And does {{sc|He}} speak to you very often?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Everybody is in love with you, that is why you and your father make such a fuss about yourselves. Who is that new clown they call {{sc|He}}? I don’t like him, he’s too shrewd a beast. {{...}} Is he in love with you, too? I noticed the way he looked at you{{...|4}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Laughing'']: Nothing of the kind. He is so funny! He got fifty-two slaps yesterday. We counted them. Think of it, fifty-two slaps! Father said, “if they had only been gold pieces.”

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

And Bezano, Consuelo{{...|4}} Do you like him?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Yes, very much. He is so good-looking. He says that Bezano and I are the most beautiful couple in the world. {{sc|He}} calls him Adam, and me Eve. But that’s improper, isn’t it? {{sc|He}} is ''so'' improper.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

And does {{sc|He}} speak to you very often?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
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Everybody is in love with you, that is why you and your father make such a fuss about yourselves. Who is that new clown they call {{sc|He}}? I don’t like him, he’s too shrewd a beast. {{...}} Is he in love with you, too? I noticed the way he looked at you{{...|4}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Laughing'']: Nothing of the kind. He is so funny! He got fifty-two slaps yesterday. We counted them. Think of it, fifty-two slaps! Father said, “if they had only been gold pieces.”

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

And Bezano, Consuelo{{...|4}} Do you like him?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Yes, very much. He is so good-looking. He says that Bezano and I are the most beautiful couple in the world. {{sc|He}} calls him Adam, and me Eve. But that’s improper, isn’t it? {{sc|He}} is ''so'' improper.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

And does {{sc|He}} speak to you very often?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf/127</title>
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        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132281</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2010" sha1="p8k3epxos2cstz4rxdl1fq66q9bv9ea" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|110|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
|+ Centaur Technical Modifications After Surveyor Missions Were Completed
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add two electrical disconnect support arms.
|Support spacecraft safe/arm and power supply cabling and withdraw the disconnect cards from the spacecraft during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add spacecraft T&amp;C antenna ramps and rub surfaces.
|Prevent the spacecraft antennas from 1) being abraded and 2) hanging up on the fairing longerons during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Delete fiberglass air conditioning ducts from the conical fairing and add removable metal ducts.
|Make the ATS duct configuration common with that required for Mariner ’69 and allow removal of the duct for cleaning.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Relief cuts made on thermal bulkhead at nose-fairing split line.
|Provide sufficient clearance between the thermal bulkhead and transition adapter during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar TV lights and add ATS TV target lights.
|Meet ATS requirements to check out spacecraft cameras.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Payload Adapter
|Delete Surveyor forward payload adapter and add an ATS-peculiar transition adapter.
|Required to join the ATS (HAC) adapter with the Centaur field joint.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Payload Adapter
|Modify the electrical interface island.
|Accommodate the ATS destructor leads and the payload separation and instrumentation connectors.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Payload Adapter
|Install new air conditioning ducts in the transition adapter.
|Conform to the design of the new adapter and satisfy the ATS thermal requirements.
|-&lt;noinclude&gt;|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>p8k3epxos2cstz4rxdl1fq66q9bv9ea</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132295</id>
      <parentid>15132281</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:26:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132295</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1936" sha1="s80fhbwn8h0bhduwyqvco7jh1q11d46" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|110|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add two electrical disconnect support arms.
|Support spacecraft safe/arm and power supply cabling and withdraw the disconnect cards from the spacecraft during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add spacecraft T&amp;C antenna ramps and rub surfaces.
|Prevent the spacecraft antennas from 1) being abraded and 2) hanging up on the fairing longerons during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Delete fiberglass air conditioning ducts from the conical fairing and add removable metal ducts.
|Make the ATS duct configuration common with that required for Mariner ’69 and allow removal of the duct for cleaning.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Relief cuts made on thermal bulkhead at nose-fairing split line.
|Provide sufficient clearance between the thermal bulkhead and transition adapter during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar TV lights and add ATS TV target lights.
|Meet ATS requirements to check out spacecraft cameras.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Payload Adapter
|Delete Surveyor forward payload adapter and add an ATS-peculiar transition adapter.
|Required to join the ATS (HAC) adapter with the Centaur field joint.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Payload Adapter
|Modify the electrical interface island.
|Accommodate the ATS destructor leads and the payload separation and instrumentation connectors.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Payload Adapter
|Install new air conditioning ducts in the transition adapter.
|Conform to the design of the new adapter and satisfy the ATS thermal requirements.
|-&lt;noinclude&gt;|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>s80fhbwn8h0bhduwyqvco7jh1q11d46</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132318</id>
      <parentid>15132295</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:35:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132318</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1937" sha1="cw0lzltrrpdcleyhb70q6pndq671r39" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|110|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add two electrical disconnect support arms.
|Support spacecraft safe/arm and power supply cabling and withdraw the disconnect cards from the spacecraft during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add spacecraft T&amp;C antenna ramps and rub surfaces.
|Prevent the spacecraft antennas from 1) being abraded and 2) hanging up on the fairing longerons during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Delete fiberglass air conditioning ducts from the conical fairing and add removable metal ducts.
|Make the ATS duct configuration common with that required for Mariner ’69 and allow removal of the duct for cleaning.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Relief cuts made on thermal bulkhead at nose-fairing split line.
|Provide sufficient clearance between the thermal bulkhead and transition adapter during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar TV lights and add ATS TV target lights.
|Meet ATS requirements to check out spacecraft cameras.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Payload Adapter
|Delete Surveyor forward payload adapter and add an ATS-peculiar transition adapter.
|Required to join the ATS (HAC) adapter with the Centaur field joint.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Payload Adapter
|Modify the electrical interface island.
|Accommodate the ATS destructor leads and the payload separation and instrumentation connectors.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Payload Adapter
|Install new air conditioning ducts in the transition adapter.
|Conform to the design of the new adapter and satisfy the ATS thermal requirements.
|-&lt;noinclude&gt;|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>cw0lzltrrpdcleyhb70q6pndq671r39</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132375</id>
      <parentid>15132318</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:12:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TeysaKarlov</username>
        <id>3017537</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132375</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1955" sha1="5bsei3lnhm2pmiqmw9wn82yao9dvy8s" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|110|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|- 
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add two electrical disconnect support arms.
|Support spacecraft safe/arm and power supply cabling and withdraw the disconnect cards from the spacecraft during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Add spacecraft T&amp;C antenna ramps and rub surfaces.
|Prevent the spacecraft antennas from 1) being abraded and 2) hanging up on the fairing longerons during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Delete fiberglass air conditioning ducts from the conical fairing and add removable metal ducts.
|Make the ATS duct configuration common with that required for Mariner ’69 and allow removal of the duct for cleaning.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Relief cuts made on thermal bulkhead at nose-fairing split line.
|Provide sufficient clearance between the thermal bulkhead and transition adapter during nose-fairing jettison.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Nose Fairings
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar TV lights and add ATS TV target lights.
|Meet ATS requirements to check out spacecraft cameras.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Payload Adapter
|Delete Surveyor forward payload adapter and add an ATS-peculiar transition adapter.
|Required to join the ATS (HAC) adapter with the Centaur field joint.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Airborne, Structural, Payload Adapter
|Modify the electrical interface island.
|Accommodate the ATS destructor leads and the payload separation and instrumentation connectors.
|-
|Mechanical Systems, Payload Adapter
|Install new air conditioning ducts in the transition adapter.
|Conform to the design of the new adapter and satisfy the ATS thermal requirements.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5bsei3lnhm2pmiqmw9wn82yao9dvy8s</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Acadiensis Q2.djvu/142</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847644</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132293</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:26:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problematic */ missing images; not sure of best layout</comment>
      <origin>15132293</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1216" sha1="mog6bylyjkkd3i20qozj5b8xvxea9id" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;2&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|112|LOST IN THE FORESTS OF ACADIA|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|the month they had been camped on the bank of a river {{br}}
where they had fished trout in very small quantity, having {{br}}
not more than four or five for their whole provision. {{br}}
When we arrived where they were these were placed in {{br}}
the pot with our porcupine which we ate together. Early {{br}}
next morning the party started for the residence of M. {{br}}
de Fronsac at the Forks of the Miramichi, but they had {{br}}
hardly gone more than a mile and a half when Father Le {{br}}
Clerc felt so weak and faint that he had to throw himself {{br}}
down on the snow. A slight rest and some of confection {{br}}
of hyacinth, however, enabled him to go on a short dis- {{br}}
tance further, but at length he became so utterly {{br}}
exhausted that they had to cut some wood and {{br}}
make a fire to warm him. This little rest giving {{br}}
him new force, and after walking a mile and {{br}}
and a half further, they arrived during a {{br}}
heavy fall of snow at the fort and {{br}}
house of M. de Fronsac, who did {{br}}
all that he could to restore {{br}}
and comfort them for {{br}}
the fatigue which {{br}}
they had en- {{br}}
dured.}}
{{image}}

{{image}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mog6bylyjkkd3i20qozj5b8xvxea9id</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf/128</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847645</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132296</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:26:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132296</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1655" sha1="c6rplo03raave7zt162vdtbk262kzbm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;|Electrical System, Airborne
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar harnessing.
|Not required to support ATS mission.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Provide a pyro harness from the pyro relay package to the adapter interface island.
|Meet ATS requirement for Centaur to provide spacecraft separation electrical power.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Add harnesses between Centaur umbilical and 1) the spacecraft and 2) TV lights on the nose fairing.
|Meet ATS requirements for 1) spacecraft safe/arm and power supply circuits and 2) nose-fairing TV lights.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Install a larger capacity (150 ampere-hour) battery with a voltage monitor resistor.
|Meet need for additional Centaur electrical power required because of the extended coast and retromaneuver periods.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar instrumentation and add instrumentation for additional Centaur data.
|Primarily provide for retrieval of data associated with the extended coast. Also provide for analysis of the spacecraft adapter interface vibrations during flight.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Add a second telepak.
|Provide for increased number of measurements.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Provide for two ATS acceleration measurements.
|Meet ATS requirement.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Atlas
|Remove pitch program from Atlas programmer and place in Centaur computer.
|Effect system simplification.&lt;noinclude&gt;|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>c6rplo03raave7zt162vdtbk262kzbm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132297</id>
      <parentid>15132296</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:26:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132297</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1658" sha1="lk1puf4g32lf4v3n7lwpiz75ybo5lov" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;|Electrical System, Airborne
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar harnessing.
|Not required to support ATS mission.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Provide a pyro harness from the pyro relay package to the adapter interface island.
|Meet ATS requirement for Centaur to provide spacecraft separation electrical power.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Add harnesses between Centaur umbilical and 1) the spacecraft and 2) TV lights on the nose fairing.
|Meet ATS requirements for 1) spacecraft safe/arm and power supply circuits and 2) nose-fairing TV lights.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Install a larger capacity (150 ampere-hour) battery with a voltage monitor resistor.
|Meet need for additional Centaur electrical power required because of the extended coast and retromaneuver periods.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar instrumentation and add instrumentation for additional Centaur data.
|Primarily provide for retrieval of data associated with the extended coast. Also provide for analysis of the spacecraft adapter interface vibrations during flight.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Add a second telepak.
|Provide for increased number of measurements.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Provide for two ATS acceleration measurements.
|Meet ATS requirement.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Atlas
|Remove pitch program from Atlas programmer and place in Centaur computer.
|Effect system simplification.
|-&lt;noinclude&gt;|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lk1puf4g32lf4v3n7lwpiz75ybo5lov</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132319</id>
      <parentid>15132297</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:35:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132319</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1659" sha1="9lyce23vvbkypnu04sw34pjxw39nidv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar harnessing.
|Not required to support ATS mission.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Provide a pyro harness from the pyro relay package to the adapter interface island.
|Meet ATS requirement for Centaur to provide spacecraft separation electrical power.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Add harnesses between Centaur umbilical and 1) the spacecraft and 2) TV lights on the nose fairing.
|Meet ATS requirements for 1) spacecraft safe/arm and power supply circuits and 2) nose-fairing TV lights.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Install a larger capacity (150 ampere-hour) battery with a voltage monitor resistor.
|Meet need for additional Centaur electrical power required because of the extended coast and retromaneuver periods.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar instrumentation and add instrumentation for additional Centaur data.
|Primarily provide for retrieval of data associated with the extended coast. Also provide for analysis of the spacecraft adapter interface vibrations during flight.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Add a second telepak.
|Provide for increased number of measurements.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Provide for two ATS acceleration measurements.
|Meet ATS requirement.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Atlas
|Remove pitch program from Atlas programmer and place in Centaur computer.
|Effect system simplification.
|-&lt;noinclude&gt;|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9lyce23vvbkypnu04sw34pjxw39nidv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132380</id>
      <parentid>15132319</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:14:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TeysaKarlov</username>
        <id>3017537</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132380</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1676" sha1="dhu0sbwrn66f9q4nr81vi5sys6g496b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|107|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar harnessing.
|Not required to support ATS mission.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Provide a pyro harness from the pyro relay package to the adapter interface island.
|Meet ATS requirement for Centaur to provide spacecraft separation electrical power.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Add harnesses between Centaur umbilical and 1) the spacecraft and 2) TV lights on the nose fairing.
|Meet ATS requirements for 1) spacecraft safe/arm and power supply circuits and 2) nose-fairing TV lights.
|-
|Electrical System, Airborne
|Install a larger capacity (150 ampere-hour) battery with a voltage monitor resistor.
|Meet need for additional Centaur electrical power required because of the extended coast and retromaneuver periods.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar instrumentation and add instrumentation for additional Centaur data.
|Primarily provide for retrieval of data associated with the extended coast. Also provide for analysis of the spacecraft adapter interface vibrations during flight.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Add a second telepak.
|Provide for increased number of measurements.
|-
|Electrical System, Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems
|Provide for two ATS acceleration measurements.
|Meet ATS requirement.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Atlas
|Remove pitch program from Atlas programmer and place in Centaur computer.
|Effect system simplification.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dhu0sbwrn66f9q4nr81vi5sys6g496b</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf/129</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847646</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132302</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:29:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132302</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1641" sha1="fyss9bp019pqoxg33c7n680x0dzcoql" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|112|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;|Guidance and Autopilot, Atlas
|Revise the programmer sequence to delay the nosefairing jettison event.
|Reduce the aerodynamic heating input to the spacecraft and establish commonality with AC-19 and AC-20.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Redesign rate gyro package stability margin.
|Provide increased vehicle to provide additional levels and switching for rate and position gains.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Provide nonlinear position gains during the reorientation interval.
|Enable the accomplishment of a large angle reorientation maneuver in a limited time interval and with a high degree of accuracy.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Relocate the Spin Motor Rotation Detector external to the rate gyro package.
|Provide room for the additional components required in the rate gyro package to effect the above changes.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar functions from the programmer and add the ATS discretes.
|Required primarily to implement the reorientation and retromaneuver sequences.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Revise the timer logic to reference spacecraft separation to the Main Engine Cut Off event.
|Enable more rapid retromaneuver due to elimination of fixed time delays for burn-time dispersions.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Revise programmer switching to effect a longer prestart sequence.
|Compensate for anticipated higher temperatures resulting from long coast.
|-
|}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>fyss9bp019pqoxg33c7n680x0dzcoql</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132321</id>
      <parentid>15132302</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:35:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132321</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1642" sha1="rb7hr4ft37xvbflc8ze0ny7x9d20c5d" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|112|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;
|Guidance and Autopilot, Atlas
|Revise the programmer sequence to delay the nosefairing jettison event.
|Reduce the aerodynamic heating input to the spacecraft and establish commonality with AC-19 and AC-20.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Redesign rate gyro package stability margin.
|Provide increased vehicle to provide additional levels and switching for rate and position gains.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Provide nonlinear position gains during the reorientation interval.
|Enable the accomplishment of a large angle reorientation maneuver in a limited time interval and with a high degree of accuracy.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Relocate the Spin Motor Rotation Detector external to the rate gyro package.
|Provide room for the additional components required in the rate gyro package to effect the above changes.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar functions from the programmer and add the ATS discretes.
|Required primarily to implement the reorientation and retromaneuver sequences.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Revise the timer logic to reference spacecraft separation to the Main Engine Cut Off event.
|Enable more rapid retromaneuver due to elimination of fixed time delays for burn-time dispersions.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Revise programmer switching to effect a longer prestart sequence.
|Compensate for anticipated higher temperatures resulting from long coast.
|-
|}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rb7hr4ft37xvbflc8ze0ny7x9d20c5d</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132387</id>
      <parentid>15132321</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:16:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TeysaKarlov</username>
        <id>3017537</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132387</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1626" sha1="798l9m0hm6g9eh21x59ot56o2tplc4b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|112|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}
{| class=&quot;wikitable sortable _table&quot;
!System
!Change from Surveyor
!Reason for Change
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Atlas
|Revise the programmer sequence to delay the nose-fairing jettison event.
|Reduce the aerodynamic heating input to the spacecraft and establish commonality with AC-19 and AC-20.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Redesign rate gyro package stability margin.
|Provide increased vehicle to provide additional levels and switching for rate and position gains.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Provide nonlinear position gains during the reorientation interval.
|Enable the accomplishment of a large angle reorientation maneuver in a limited time interval and with a high degree of accuracy.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Relocate the Spin Motor Rotation Detector external to the rate gyro package.
|Provide room for the additional components required in the rate gyro package to effect the above changes.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Delete Surveyor-peculiar functions from the programmer and add the ATS discretes.
|Required primarily to implement the reorientation and retromaneuver sequences.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Revise the timer logic to reference spacecraft separation to the Main Engine Cut Off event.
|Enable more rapid retromaneuver due to elimination of fixed time delays for burn-time dispersions.
|-
|Guidance and Autopilot, Centaur
|Revise programmer switching to effect a longer prestart sequence.
|Compensate for anticipated higher temperatures resulting from long coast.
|-
|}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/52</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847647</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132306</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:30:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132306</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1044" sha1="0gmjjtgp5dxwr4vaawyz0qq3sbaxd3k" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|The Epitaph||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;The Epitaph&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''The Epitaph&quot;'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=follow|
{{di|A}}BOVE his grave they raised a stone
:That towered toward the sky,
And on it they carved in shadows deep
:These words that held mine eye:

&quot;Here lies a patriot soldier bold,
:Who at his country's call
With joy laid down his youthful life;
:Sweet is it thus to fall.&quot;

That night by the ghostly moonlit stone
:We saw an angel stand,
And he wiped that labored legend out
:With a sweep of his silver hand.

Then with a finger that seemed to glow
:Like a flame that was pale and blue
He traced a single white-hot word
:That scorched us through and through.

&quot;Angel of Truth,&quot; we cried, aghast
:(How did we know his name?),
&quot;What means upon our hero's tomb
This word of burning shame?

&quot;Was he a traitor who fought so well
:Against his nation's foe{{mdash}}
A 'traitor,' who gave his life's red blood
:When his country bade it flow?&quot;
}}&lt;section end=&quot;The Epitaph&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|48}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0gmjjtgp5dxwr4vaawyz0qq3sbaxd3k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132315</id>
      <parentid>15132306</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:33:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>end=stanza</comment>
      <origin>15132315</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1044" sha1="8tpa20vxm99jfvz8zweo29898k2vnbi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|The Epitaph||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;The Epitaph&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''The Epitaph&quot;'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=stanza|
{{di|A}}BOVE his grave they raised a stone
:That towered toward the sky,
And on it they carved in shadows deep
:These words that held mine eye:

&quot;Here lies a patriot soldier bold,
:Who at his country's call
With joy laid down his youthful life;
:Sweet is it thus to fall.&quot;

That night by the ghostly moonlit stone
:We saw an angel stand,
And he wiped that labored legend out
:With a sweep of his silver hand.

Then with a finger that seemed to glow
:Like a flame that was pale and blue
He traced a single white-hot word
:That scorched us through and through.

&quot;Angel of Truth,&quot; we cried, aghast
:(How did we know his name?),
&quot;What means upon our hero's tomb
This word of burning shame?

&quot;Was he a traitor who fought so well
:Against his nation's foe{{mdash}}
A 'traitor,' who gave his life's red blood
:When his country bade it flow?&quot;
}}&lt;section end=&quot;The Epitaph&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|48}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8tpa20vxm99jfvz8zweo29898k2vnbi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132317</id>
      <parentid>15132315</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:34:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>stray quote</comment>
      <origin>15132317</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1043" sha1="3cfc4l72q21ksmg4cww9jwbrfv9avtb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|The Epitaph||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;The Epitaph&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''The Epitaph'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=stanza|
{{di|A}}BOVE his grave they raised a stone
:That towered toward the sky,
And on it they carved in shadows deep
:These words that held mine eye:

&quot;Here lies a patriot soldier bold,
:Who at his country's call
With joy laid down his youthful life;
:Sweet is it thus to fall.&quot;

That night by the ghostly moonlit stone
:We saw an angel stand,
And he wiped that labored legend out
:With a sweep of his silver hand.

Then with a finger that seemed to glow
:Like a flame that was pale and blue
He traced a single white-hot word
:That scorched us through and through.

&quot;Angel of Truth,&quot; we cried, aghast
:(How did we know his name?),
&quot;What means upon our hero's tomb
This word of burning shame?

&quot;Was he a traitor who fought so well
:Against his nation's foe{{mdash}}
A 'traitor,' who gave his life's red blood
:When his country bade it flow?&quot;
}}&lt;section end=&quot;The Epitaph&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|48}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3cfc4l72q21ksmg4cww9jwbrfv9avtb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Taming Liquid Hydrogen: The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket, 1958-2002/Chapter 4</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847648</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132309</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:32:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title       = [[../|Taming Liquid Hydrogen: The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket]]  | author1     = Virginia P. Dawson  | author2     = Mark D. Bowles  | year        = 2004  | section     = Chapter 4: Heavy Lift  | previous    = [[../Chapter 3]]  | next        = [[../Chapter 5]]  | notes       =  }}{{default layout|Layout 2}}  &lt;pages index=&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot; from=120 to=155/&gt; {{rule|8em|align=left}} {{smallrefs}}&quot;</comment>
      <origin>15132309</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="463" sha1="dpy5v5gw06mf4ybzrhn1dlirwj52lly" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = [[../|Taming Liquid Hydrogen: The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket]]
 | author1     = Virginia P. Dawson
 | author2     = Mark D. Bowles
 | year        = 2004
 | section     = Chapter 4: Heavy Lift
 | previous    = [[../Chapter 3]]
 | next        = [[../Chapter 5]]
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot; from=120 to=155/&gt;
{{rule|8em|align=left}}
{{smallrefs}}</text>
      <sha1>dpy5v5gw06mf4ybzrhn1dlirwj52lly</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132395</id>
      <parentid>15132309</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:21:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TeysaKarlov</username>
        <id>3017537</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132395</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="465" sha1="l5g78dmgrochjtikv1d9adksow8h4bz" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = [[../|Taming Liquid Hydrogen: The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket]]
 | author1     = Virginia P. Dawson
 | author2     = Mark D. Bowles
 | year        = 2004
 | section     = Chapter 4: Heavy Lift
 | previous    = [[../Chapter 3/]]
 | next        = [[../Chapter 5/]]
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf&quot; from=120 to=155/&gt;
{{rule|8em|align=left}}
{{smallrefs}}</text>
      <sha1>l5g78dmgrochjtikv1d9adksow8h4bz</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/70</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847649</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132310</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:32:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{csc|Consuelo}}  Yes, ''often''{{...|4}} But I don't understand him. It seems as if he were drunk.  {{csc|Baron}}  &quot;Consuelo&quot;! {{...}} It means in Spanish {{...}} Consolation. Your father is an ass{{...|4}}  Consuelo, I love you.  {{csc|Consuelo}}  Talk it over with Father.  {{csc|Baron}}  [''Angry'']: Your father is a swindler and a charlatan. He should be turned over to the police. Don't you understand that I ''cannot'' marry you?  {{csc|Consuelo}}  B...</comment>
      <origin>15132310</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="733" sha1="tamcid3p46obcrk7c2ubpjh059ky9la" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|52|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|52}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{csc|Consuelo}}

Yes, ''often''{{...|4}} But I don't understand him. It seems as if he were drunk.

{{csc|Baron}}

&quot;Consuelo&quot;! {{...}} It means in Spanish {{...}} Consolation. Your father is an ass{{...|4}}  Consuelo, I love you.

{{csc|Consuelo}}

Talk it over with Father.

{{csc|Baron}}

[''Angry'']: Your father is a swindler and a charlatan. He should be turned over to the police. Don't you understand that I ''cannot'' marry you?

{{csc|Consuelo}}

But Father says you can{{...|4}}

{{csc|Baron}}

No, I cannot. And what if I shoot myself? Consuelo, silly girl, I love you unbearably {{...}} unbearably, do you understand? I am probably mad {{...}} and must be taken to a doctor, yanked about,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tamcid3p46obcrk7c2ubpjh059ky9la</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132311</id>
      <parentid>15132310</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:32:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132311</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="733" sha1="n1hl21hrho4emrf2qcbu2qbo0s3tq3f" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|52|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|52}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{csc|Consuelo}}

Yes, ''often''{{...|4}} But I don't understand him. It seems as if he were drunk.

{{csc|Baron}}

&quot;Consuelo&quot;! {{...}} It means in Spanish {{...}} Consolation. Your father is an ass{{...|4}}  Consuelo, I love you.

{{csc|Consuelo}}

Talk it over with Father.

{{csc|Baron}}

[''Angry'']: Your father is a swindler and a charlatan. He should be turned over to the police. Don't you understand that I ''cannot'' marry you?

{{csc|Consuelo}}

But Father says you can{{...|4}}

{{csc|Baron}}

No, I cannot. And what if I shoot myself? Consuelo, silly girl, I love you unbearably {{...}} unbearably, do you understand? I am probably mad {{...}} and must be taken to a doctor, yanked about,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>n1hl21hrho4emrf2qcbu2qbo0s3tq3f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132401</id>
      <parentid>15132311</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:28:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132401</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="765" sha1="jj82mrdqqqcgm5rom83ucp6ibszpczu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|52|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Yes, often. {{...}} But I don’t understand him. It seems as if he were drunk.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

“Consuelo”! {{...}} It means in Spanish {{...}} Consolation. Your father is an ass. {{...}}  Consuelo, I love you.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Talk it over with Father.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

[''Angry'']: Your father is a swindler and a charlatan. He should be turned over to the police. Don’t you understand that I ''cannot'' marry you?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

But Father says you can{{...|4}}

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

No, I cannot. And what if I shoot myself? Consuelo, silly girl, I love you unbearably {{...}} unbearably, do you understand? I am probably mad {{...}} and must be taken to a doctor, yanked about,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jj82mrdqqqcgm5rom83ucp6ibszpczu</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/53</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847650</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132312</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:33:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132312</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="855" sha1="18xl8tr9i4b5m0qq8sb3omyb5umbrz2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|||The Epitaph}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|end=stanza|
&quot;He ''was'' a traitor,&quot; like a bell
:Of silver Truth replied:
&quot;Traitor to more than country's call
:Or patriot's loyal pride{{mdash}}

&quot;Traitor to freedom when he sought
:To subjugate the free{{mdash}}
Traitor to love when, steeped in hate,
:He crossed the distant sea{{mdash}}

Traitor to conscience when he stilled
:Its cry of pain within{{mdash}}
Nay, traitor to his country too
:For helping her to sin.&quot;

Back toward the stars the angel rose,
:And when he disappeared
We chiseled out that shameful word,
:Tho deep the stone was seared,

And once again we carved the lines
:Which told our hero's deed
So deep and clear the words appear
:That he who runs may read.

And there they stay until this day
:To publish his renown,
For, tho we feared the angel's wrath,
:He never again came down.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|49}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>18xl8tr9i4b5m0qq8sb3omyb5umbrz2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf/54</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847651</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132323</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:37:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132323</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="946" sha1="tb5q77ikvp72uexvpmxm6b6jvtqessg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|Love's Patriot||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|
Yet, when I read those deep-cut lines,
:Between them and behind
I see aflame another name
:That burns into my mind.
{{* * *|4|·}}
''Traitor to freedom, truth and love,''
:''Traitor to good and right''{{mdash}}
What patriot boast can save his soul
:Who falls in such a fight?
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The Epitaph&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;Love's Patriot&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''Love's Patriot'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=stanza|
{{di|I}} SAW a lad, a beautiful lad,
:With a far-off look in his eye,
Who smiled not on the battle-flag
:When the cavalry troop marched by.

And, sorely vexed, I asked the lad
:Where might his country be
Who cared not for our country's flag
:And the brave from oversea?

&quot;Oh, my country is the Land of Love,&quot;
:Thus did the lad reply;
&quot;My country is the Land of Love,
:And a patriot there am I.&quot;
}}&lt;section end=&quot;Love's Patriot&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|50}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tb5q77ikvp72uexvpmxm6b6jvtqessg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132328</id>
      <parentid>15132323</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:40:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>fix character</comment>
      <origin>15132328</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="951" sha1="8sd1eg29l9j0lvkc8w5bpw7as5qlm95" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Tcr25&quot; /&gt;{{rh|Love's Patriot||}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=stanza|
Yet, when I read those deep-cut lines,
:Between them and behind
I see aflame another name
:That burns into my mind.
{{* * *|4|char=·}}
''Traitor to freedom, truth and love,''
:''Traitor to good and right''{{mdash}}
What patriot boast can save his soul
:Who falls in such a fight?
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;The Epitaph&quot; /&gt;
{{dhr}}
&lt;section begin=&quot;Love's Patriot&quot; /&gt;{{larger|'''Love's Patriot'''{{gap}}[[File:Leaf - Swords and Plowshares (1902).png|30px]]}}

{{ppoem|end=stanza|
{{di|I}} SAW a lad, a beautiful lad,
:With a far-off look in his eye,
Who smiled not on the battle-flag
:When the cavalry troop marched by.

And, sorely vexed, I asked the lad
:Where might his country be
Who cared not for our country's flag
:And the brave from oversea?

&quot;Oh, my country is the Land of Love,&quot;
:Thus did the lad reply;
&quot;My country is the Land of Love,
:And a patriot there am I.&quot;
}}&lt;section end=&quot;Love's Patriot&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|50}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8sd1eg29l9j0lvkc8w5bpw7as5qlm95</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Swords and Plowshares/The Epitaph</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847652</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132327</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:39:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tcr25</username>
        <id>731176</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>transclude poem</comment>
      <origin>15132327</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="441" sha1="hqtwkouc2i6rro5051ao4j663ymeif3" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = ''[[Swords and Plowshares]]''
 | author      = Ernest Howard Crosby |author-display=Ernest Crosby
 | section     = The Epitaph
 | previous    = [[../Dreyfus &quot;Guilty&quot;/]]
 | next        = [[../Love's Patriot/]]
 | year        = 1902
 | notes       = 
}}{{default layout|Layout 2}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Swords and plowshares (IA swordsplowshares00cros).pdf&quot; from=52 to=54 fromsection=&quot;The Epitaph&quot; tosection=&quot;The Epitaph&quot; /&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu/66</title>
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      <text bytes="1542" sha1="dln78nu4ev0qxzvsx979te0bo5x2tv1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{c|( 52 )}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=follow|So gazing from the drear abodes of Hell,
Where Sorrow and eternal Anguish dwell, {{pline|360|r}}
Such cruel pangs torment the damned breast,
That sees remote the mansions of the Blest.
{{em}}But now, Athenian mountains they descry,
And tall Colonne rears its head on high;
In dreadful form, the curving beech appears, {{pline|365|r}}
The final goal of all their Hopes and Fears!
The Elements with tenfold Rage contend,
And Storm, Rain, Fire and Waves tempestuous blend:
The Mariners, aghast with Terror, see
Approaching Ruin stretch'd beneath the lee: {{pline|370|r}}
The refluent blood congeals in all their veins,
In ev'ry look, intense Confusion reigns:
Fear, Hope and Agony their Souls possess,
While this new Danger makes all others less:
The Ship, while now the great event draws nigh, {{pline|375|r}}
Still more accelerated seems to fly:
With horrid yawn, along the surge-lash'd strand,
The never-closing jaws of Death expand:
The fate-fraught moment now approaches fast,
While thronging Seamen climb each shiv'ring mast: {{pline|380|r}}
The Vessel must no longer stem the land,
And, &quot;hard a starboard!&quot; is the last command:
While ev'ry suppliant Voice to {{sc|Heav'n}} applies,
The prow, like lightning, to the westward flies;
The yards to starboard all were sharply brac'd; {{pline|385|r}}
Twelve Sailors up the fore-cat-harpings&lt;ref&gt;Cat-harpings are ropes which draw in the shrouds parallel to the yard, that the yard may the more easily be braced sharp.&lt;/ref&gt; haste;}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|Fatal}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1556" sha1="q8mqdjjm9802gqxa99n34psp0eo41vh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{c|( 52 )}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=follow|So gazing from the drear abodes of Hell,
Where Sorrow and eternal Anguish dwell, {{pline|360|r}}
Such cruel pangs torment the damned breast,
That sees remote the mansions of the Blest.
{{em}}But now, Athenian mountains they descry,
And tall Colonne rears its head on high;
In dreadful form, the curving beech appears, {{pline|365|r}}
The final goal of all their Hopes and Fears!
The Elements with tenfold Rage contend,
And Storm, Rain, Fire and Waves tempestuous blend:
The Mariners, aghast with Terror, see
Approaching Ruin stretch'd beneath the lee: {{pline|370|r}}
The refluent blood congeals in all their veins,
In ev'ry look, intense Confusion reigns:
Fear, Hope and Agony their Souls possess,
While this new Danger makes all others less:
The Ship, while now the great event draws nigh, {{pline|375|r}}
Still more accelerated seems to fly:
With horrid yawn, along the surge-lash'd strand,
The never-closing jaws of Death expand:
The fate-fraught moment now approaches fast,
While thronging Seamen climb each shiv'ring mast: {{pline|380|r}}
The Vessel must no longer stem the land,
And, &quot;hard a starboard!&quot; is the last command:
While ev'ry suppliant Voice to {{sc|Heav'n}} applies,
The prow, like lightning, to the westward flies;
The yards to starboard all were sharply brac'd; {{pline|385|r}}
Twelve Sailors up the fore-cat-harpings&lt;ref&gt;Cat-harpings are ropes which draw in the shrouds parallel to the yard, that the yard may the more easily be braced sharp.&lt;/ref&gt; haste;}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
{{continues|Fatal}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu/138</title>
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* Norwood, Robert W., ancestry, 9; genealogy, 10–11; genius, 11; birthplace of, 12; childish characteristics, 13; influence of the sea, 13; of Mount Pisgah, 14; taught by his mother, 15; influence of sisters, 15; at school in Coaticook, 16; classics, 16; at school in Lennoxville, 16; on genius, 17; on death, 17; entered King’s College, 17; mechanical ability, 17; devotion to father, 18; determination to be a clergyman, 17–19; lack of funds, 19; as lay-reader, 19; encouraged by Charles G. D. Roberts, 19, 20; difficulties at college, 20; public speech, 20; descendant of Theodore Seth Harding, 20; graduated, 21; ordained, 21; first parish at St. Andrew’s Mission, Neil’s Harbour, C.B., 21, 22; marriage of, 22; called to Hubbard’s Cove, 22; children of, 22; called to Bridgewater, N.S., 22; friendships of, 22, 23; post-graduate courses at Columbia, 23; rector at Springhill, 23; studied industrial problem, 23; assistant at Trinity Church, Montreal, 23; success as a preacher, 23, 24; fearlessness of, 24; 110; called to London, Ont., 23; first individual publications, 24; called to Overbrook, Pa., 24; doctorate, 24; lecturer, Philadelphia Forum, 24; belongs to all who speak English, 25; correspondence of, 26; 86; poetic qualities, 85; 90; recognition, 85; philosophy of, 87; 114, 115; 120, 121; dramatic gift, 98–100; grouped with Canadian dramatists, 100; scenario by, 100; on divinity of man, 102; power in dramatic monologue, 103; views on physical conflict, 104; on religion, 108; intense activities, 112; burden of message, 113; artistry, 113; influence of other poets, 116–118; on war, 118; originality, 118; conservative in style, 118; quotation from, 122.
* Norwood, Robert, Junior (Ted), 22.
* Norwood, Mrs. Robert (Ethel McKeen of Baddeck), 22.
* Norwood, Ted, buried at Hubbard’s Cove, 17.
* Nova Scotia, 20.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}
{{c|—130—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* Norwood, Robert W., ancestry, 9; genealogy, 10–11; genius, 11; birthplace of, 12; childish characteristics, 13; influence of the sea, 13; of Mount Pisgah, 14; taught by his mother, 15; influence of sisters, 15; at school in Coaticook, 16; classics, 16; at school in Lennoxville, 16; on genius, 17; on death, 17; entered King’s College, 17; mechanical ability, 17; devotion to father, 18; determination to be a clergyman, 17–19; lack of funds, 19; as lay-reader, 19; encouraged by Charles G. D. Roberts, 19, 20; difficulties at college, 20; public speech, 20; descendant of Theodore Seth Harding, 20; graduated, 21; ordained, 21; first parish at St. Andrew’s Mission, Neil’s Harbour, C.B., 21, 22; marriage of, 22; called to Hubbard’s Cove, 22; children of, 22; called to Bridgewater, N.S., 22; friendships of, 22, 23; post-graduate courses at Columbia, 23; rector at Springhill, 23; studied industrial problem, 23; assistant at Trinity Church, Montreal, 23; success as a preacher, 23, 24; fearlessness of, 24; 110; called to London, Ont., 23; first individual publications, 24; called to Overbrook, Pa., 24; doctorate, 24; lecturer, Philadelphia Forum, 24; belongs to all who speak English, 25; correspondence of, 26; 86; poetic qualities, 85; 90; recognition, 85; philosophy of, 87; 114, 115; 120, 121; dramatic gift, 98–100; grouped with Canadian dramatists, 100; scenario by, 100; on divinity of man, 102; power in dramatic monologue, 103; views on physical conflict, 104; on religion, 108; intense activities, 112; burden of message, 113; artistry, 113; influence of other poets, 116–118; on war, 118; originality, 118; conservative in style, 118; quotation from, 122.
* Norwood, Robert, Junior (Ted), 22.
* Norwood, Mrs. Robert (Ethel McKeen of Baddeck), 22.
* Norwood, Ted, buried at Hubbard’s Cove, 17.
* Nova Scotia, 20.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}
{{c|—130—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu/139</title>
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* Oak Hill, N.Y., residence at, 14.
* Overbrook, Pa., rector of St. Paul’s Memorial Church, 24; 110; environment of, 25.

* Paton, Mr., 23.
* ''Paul'', 104.
* Philadelphia, 105.
* Porcupine Hill, 12.
* ''Postlude'', 77.

* Rand, Theodore Harding, named for Rev. Theodore Seth Harding, 21.
* ''Reincarnation'', quoted in full, 36, 37.
* Roberts, Charles G. D., encouraged Norwood, 19, 20, 25; 102; 116; 119.
* Roberts, Mr., 22.

* Seaforth, N.S., residence at, 13, 14.
* Searle, Captain, of ''The Race Horse'', 11.
* Seton, Ernest Thompson, 25.
* Shakespeare, 117.
* Shelley, 116; 122.
* Shigawake, Que., residence in, 16; 23.
* ''Socrates'', 103.
* Springhill, N.S., rector of All Saints’ Church, 23; studied industrial problem, 23.
* Stringer, Arthur, 25; 99.

* ''The Anointed'', 76.
* ''The King of Glory'', 101.
* ''The Man of Kerioth'', selections from, 75–77; description of, 105–110.
* ''The Modernists'', selections from, 60–66; description of, with quotations, 102–104.
* ''The Optimist'', 101.
* ''The Piper and the Reed'', quotations from, 53–60; description of, 100; compared with ''A Musical Instrument'' by E. B. Browning, 116, 117.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{index list/e}}

{{c|—131—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu/140</title>
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{{index list/s}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;* ''The Ploughman'', quoted in full, 59, 60; appreciation of, 101.
* ''The Power Within'' (scenario), 100.
* ''The Race Horse'', Joseph Norwood second mate of, 11.
* ''The Spinner'', 70; description, of 119.
* ''The Witch of Endor'', 23, 24; selections from 41–52;, description of, 91–98; appreciation of, 98–100.
* Thompson, Mr. C. W., 23.
* Thompson, Francis, ''The Hound of Heaven'', 89.

* Vernon, Chas, co-author of ''Driftwood'', 22, 119.

* Whitman, 116.
* Windsor society, 20.
* Wordsworth, 117.
* Wycliffe, 115.
{{index list/e}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|—132—}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Robert Norwood (1923)/Index</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title    = [[../|Robert Norwood]]  | author   = Albert Durrant Watson  | year = 1923  | section  = Index  | previous = [[../Bibliography/]]  | next     =   | notes    =  }} &lt;pages index=&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot; from=135 to=140 /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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 | title    = [[../|Robert Norwood]]
 | author   = Albert Durrant Watson
 | year = 1923
 | section  = Index
 | previous = [[../Bibliography/]]
 | next     = 
 | notes    = 
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;Robert Norwood (1923) Makers of Canadian Literature.djvu&quot; from=135 to=140 /&gt;</text>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{author |firstname=Stafford |lastname=Ransome |last-initial=Ra |birthyear=1860 |deathyear=1931 |description=British journalist }} ==Works== *''Japan in Transition'' (1899) {{esl|https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/102680402}} **Reviewed: Kinnosuké, Adachi. “A Japanese View of Ransome’s ‘Japan in Transition,’” in ''The Critic, 36'', 454–459 (1900) {{esl|1=https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.32000000676884&amp;seq=470}} *“Modern Industrial Japan,” in...&quot;</comment>
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|deathyear=1931
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==Works==
*''Japan in Transition'' (1899) {{esl|https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/102680402}}
**Reviewed: Kinnosuké, Adachi. “A Japanese View of Ransome’s ‘Japan in Transition,’” in ''The Critic, 36'', 454–459 (1900) {{esl|1=https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.32000000676884&amp;seq=470}}
*“Modern Industrial Japan,” in ''Littell’s Living Age, 222'', 655–657 (1899) (from ''Japan in Transition'')
*“Japan’s Imperial Policy,” in ''Fortnightly Review, 77'', 565–573 (1902)
{{PD-US|1931}}
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**Reviewed: Kinnosuké, Adachi. “A Japanese View of Ransome’s ‘Japan in Transition,’” in ''The Critic, 36'', 454–459 (1900) {{esl|1=https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.32000000676884&amp;seq=470}}
*“Modern Industrial Japan,” in ''Littell’s Living Age, 222'', 655–657 (1899) (from ''Japan in Transition'')
*“Japan’s Imperial Policy,” in ''Fortnightly Review, 77'', 565–573 (1902)
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{{c|{{asc|SECTION IV.—SILK}}—{{xs|Continued.}}

{{sm|[Duty 35 per cent.]}}}}

{{bc/s|width=100%}}
{| class=&quot;chart&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot;
|-
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Articles.
! Valuation.&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{bc/s|width=100%}}
{| class=&quot;chart&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot;
|-
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Articles.
! Valuation.
{{nopt}}
|- class=&quot;top&quot;
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Elastic—
| Dollars.

|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| For shoes, with or without mixture
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 1.15{{ht|0}}

|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Ferret lace— ||

|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| For embroidering, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 9.858

|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Chenille— ||

|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| For embroidering and other uses, wrapper included
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 13.144

|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Blankets— ||

|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Of silk waste, with or without mixture
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 1.314

|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Cloths— ||

|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Brocades, gold and silver cloths and tissues with gold or silver up to 65 centimeters width
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | meter
| 6.507
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same with common gilt or plated metal up to 65 centimeters width
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 2.892
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same with cotton mixture, without luster
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 1.81{{ht|0}}
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Cambric, thin, for sieves and other purposes
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 13.144
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Crêpe, with or without cotton mixture
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 11.50{{ht|0}}
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Damask, lampas, brocatelle, satin, reps, and other like goods, for furniture, curtains, and other uses
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 8.544
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same with mixture of other material
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 5.257
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Thread crêpe, plain
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 9.858
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same embroidered
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 16.43{{ht|0}}
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Plush, black, with mixture of cotton, for hats
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 11.501
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Plush and velvet, with or without cotton mixture, plain or with worked figures for ornaments, dresses or upholstering furniture
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 8.215
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Gauze, veiling, tulle, point, and other transparent textures of a similar kind, plain or worked in weaving
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 13.144
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same with beadwork, beads, pearls of glass, steel, straw, wax, and other like ornaments
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 6.572
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same, worked or embroidered with imitation gold or silver,
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | square meter
| 4.121
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| All kinds, plain, damasked, or worked, double, single, etc., except those specified in this tariff
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 8.544
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Raw (foulard)
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 5.915
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| With stripes, veins, or figures of velvet or plush, for ornaments or dresses
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | pound
| 9.858
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| The same, with mixture of cotton
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 6.572
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Silk and wool, plain, single, for upholstery
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 4.70{{ht|0}}
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Grenadines
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | do
| 11.501
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| Satin, serge, pi
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | 
| 
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| 
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | 
| 
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| 
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | 
| 
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| 
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | 
| 

|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Gloves— ||

|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| 
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | 
| 
|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| 
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | 
| 

|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | Shawls— ||

|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| 
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | 
| 

|-
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | {{dhr|0.5em}} ||

|- class=&quot;entry&quot;
| 
| class=&quot;entry-mid&quot; | 
| 

|-
| width=&quot;80%&quot; |
| width=&quot;10%&quot; |
| width=&quot;10%&quot; |
|}
{{bc/e}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;!-- NECESSARY BLANK LINE (DO NOT DELETE) --&gt;
|-
| width=&quot;80%&quot; |
| width=&quot;10%&quot; |
| width=&quot;10%&quot; |
|}
{{bc/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7z0p8ao7v69gdggdd8wlm3nj9xdcbe1</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu/67</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847661</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132347</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T20:55:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132347</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1527" sha1="arwaykg7fdizzpndpa7s6236no6epeg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{c|( 53 )}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=follow|Fatal Asylum! charg'd with desp'rate woe,
For, while she pitching, dips the plunging prow,
Down-press'd by wat'ry weight the bowsprit bends,
And loos'ning from the stem, deep-crashing rends: {{pline|390|r}}
Beneath the bow the floating Ruins lie;
The fore-mast totters unsustain'd on high,
And, as she rises on th' up-lifting Sea,
Men, masts, yards, rigging tumble o'er the lee;
While, in the common wreck, the twisting stay&lt;ref&gt;The Main-top-mast stay comes to the Fore-mast head, and consequently depends upon the Fore-mast as its support.&lt;/ref&gt; {{pline|395|r}}
Drags the Main-top-mast by the cap away.
They try opposing floods to mount in vain,
And struggling, would the Vessel's side regain:
Bereft of strength, they gasp for parting breath,
Then yield exhausted to the stroke of Death: {{pline|400|r}}
The tumbling waters close around each head,
And sink them helpless to an oozy bed.
{{em}}Those who remain, the weather-shrouds embrace,
Nor longer mourn their lost Companions case:
Self-Pity in their breasts alone has room, {{pline|405|r}}
Transfix'd with Terror at th' approaching Doom:
Alternate Passions in their bosoms rise,
And fierce transitions sparkle from their eyes:
To Heav'n, their only Refuge, they apply;
But, Heav'n relentless! does all Aid deny. {{pline|410|r}}
{{em}}Ye sacred Shades! whose Precepts teach the heart
To rule the Passions by celestial Art;
To dry the tears Affliction bids to flow,
And Virtue and Felicity bestow;}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
{{continues|To}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/71</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847665</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132365</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:06:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;beaten with sticks. Why do I love you so much, Consuelo?  {{csc|Consuelo}}  Then, you'd better marry.  {{csc|Baron}}  I have had a hundred women, beauties, but I didn't see them. You are the first and I don't see any one else. Who strikes man with love, God or the Devil? The Devil struck me. Let me kiss your hand.  {{csc|Consuelo}}  No. [''She thinks a while and sighs''.]  {{csc|Baron}}  Do you think sometimes? What are you thinking about now Consuelo?...</comment>
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      <text bytes="739" sha1="jjrv50k5f9v9u87as4v4gkr90tylp9b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|53|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|53}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;beaten with sticks. Why do I love you so much, Consuelo?

{{csc|Consuelo}}

Then, you'd better marry.

{{csc|Baron}}

I have had a hundred women, beauties, but I didn't see them. You are the first and I don't see any one else. Who strikes man with love, God or the Devil? The Devil struck me. Let me kiss your hand.

{{csc|Consuelo}}

No. [''She thinks a while and sighs''.]

{{csc|Baron}}

Do you think sometimes? What are you thinking about now Consuelo?

{{csc|Consuelo}}

[''With another sigh'']: I don't know why, I just felt sorry for Bezano. [''Sighs again''.] He is so nice to me when he teaches me {{...}} a tiny little room. and he has such

{{csc|Baron}}

[''Indignant'']: You were there?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jjrv50k5f9v9u87as4v4gkr90tylp9b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132366</id>
      <parentid>15132365</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:06:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132366</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="739" sha1="k2d3ve0m2hrw18jz84cff11k5nqpmul" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|53|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|53}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;beaten with sticks. Why do I love you so much, Consuelo?

{{csc|Consuelo}}

Then, you'd better marry.

{{csc|Baron}}

I have had a hundred women, beauties, but I didn't see them. You are the first and I don't see any one else. Who strikes man with love, God or the Devil? The Devil struck me. Let me kiss your hand.

{{csc|Consuelo}}

No. [''She thinks a while and sighs''.]

{{csc|Baron}}

Do you think sometimes? What are you thinking about now Consuelo?

{{csc|Consuelo}}

[''With another sigh'']: I don't know why, I just felt sorry for Bezano. [''Sighs again''.] He is so nice to me when he teaches me {{...}} a tiny little room. and he has such

{{csc|Baron}}

[''Indignant'']: You were there?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>k2d3ve0m2hrw18jz84cff11k5nqpmul</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132403</id>
      <parentid>15132366</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:30:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132403</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="777" sha1="ixeystd0t9jt3tt0hv9o015ff2xpxwe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|53|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|53}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;beaten with sticks. Why do I love you so much, Consuelo?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Then, you’d better marry.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

I have had a hundred women, beauties, but I didn’t see them. You are the first and I don’t see any one else. Who strikes man with love, God or the Devil? The Devil struck me. Let me kiss your hand.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

No. [''She thinks a while and sighs''.]

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

Do you think sometimes? What are you thinking about now Consuelo?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''With another sigh'']: I don’t know why, I just felt sorry for Bezano. [''Sighs again''.] He is so nice to me when he teaches me {{...}} and he has such a tiny little room.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

[''Indignant'']: You were there?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ixeystd0t9jt3tt0hv9o015ff2xpxwe</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132404</id>
      <parentid>15132403</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:30:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15132404</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="775" sha1="dyafndpm6sajnhi9usgfuc6mo9fuy37" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|53}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;beaten with sticks. Why do I love you so much, Consuelo?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Then, you’d better marry.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

I have had a hundred women, beauties, but I didn’t see them. You are the first and I don’t see any one else. Who strikes man with love, God or the Devil? The Devil struck me. Let me kiss your hand.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

No. [''She thinks a while and sighs''.]

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

Do you think sometimes? What are you thinking about now Consuelo?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''With another sigh'']: I don’t know why, I just felt sorry for Bezano. [''Sighs again''.] He is so nice to me when he teaches me {{...}} and he has such a tiny little room.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

[''Indignant'']: You were there?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dyafndpm6sajnhi9usgfuc6mo9fuy37</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/72</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847667</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132376</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:13:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{csc|Consuelo}}  No. He told me about it. [''Smiling''] Do you hear the noise in there? That's He getting slapped. Poor thing although I know it doesn't hurt, it's only make-believe. The intermission is coming soon.  [''The'' {{csc|Baron}} ''throws away his cigar, takes two quick steps forward, and falls on his knees before the girl''.]  {{csc|Baron}}  Consuelo{{longdash}}  {{csc|Consuelo}}  Please, don't. Get up. Please leave my hand alone.  {{csc|Baro...</comment>
      <origin>15132376</origin>
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      <text bytes="823" sha1="1sa76py64gbwketft18upnf2zu45c99" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|54|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|54}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{csc|Consuelo}}

No. He told me about it. [''Smiling''] Do you hear the noise in there? That's He getting slapped. Poor thing although I know it doesn't hurt, it's only make-believe. The intermission is coming soon.

[''The'' {{csc|Baron}} ''throws away his cigar, takes two quick steps forward, and falls on his knees before the girl''.]

{{csc|Baron}}

Consuelo{{longdash}}

{{csc|Consuelo}}

Please, don't. Get up. Please leave my hand alone.

{{csc|Baron}}

Consuelo!

{{csc|Consuelo}}
[''Disgusted'']: Get up please, it's disgusting—you're so fat.
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[The {{csc|Baron}} gets up. Voices are heard near the door and in the ring. It is the intermission. The clowns come first, talking cheerfully and excitedly. {{sc|He}} leads them, in his clown's dress, with&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1sa76py64gbwketft18upnf2zu45c99</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132377</id>
      <parentid>15132376</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:13:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132377</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="823" sha1="a31dx6zm25azcv3wjbqh9g0etvvp1qp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|54|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|54}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{csc|Consuelo}}

No. He told me about it. [''Smiling''] Do you hear the noise in there? That's He getting slapped. Poor thing although I know it doesn't hurt, it's only make-believe. The intermission is coming soon.

[''The'' {{csc|Baron}} ''throws away his cigar, takes two quick steps forward, and falls on his knees before the girl''.]

{{csc|Baron}}

Consuelo{{longdash}}

{{csc|Consuelo}}

Please, don't. Get up. Please leave my hand alone.

{{csc|Baron}}

Consuelo!

{{csc|Consuelo}}
[''Disgusted'']: Get up please, it's disgusting—you're so fat.
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[The {{csc|Baron}} gets up. Voices are heard near the door and in the ring. It is the intermission. The clowns come first, talking cheerfully and excitedly. {{sc|He}} leads them, in his clown's dress, with&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>a31dx6zm25azcv3wjbqh9g0etvvp1qp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132378</id>
      <parentid>15132377</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:14:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132378</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="830" sha1="mkcmmc3966jxpb4apzlb87kmxlp0thi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|54|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|54}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{csc|Consuelo}}

No. He told me about it. [''Smiling''] Do you hear the noise in there? That's He getting slapped. Poor thing {{...}} although I know it doesn't hurt, it's only make-believe. The intermission is coming soon.

[''The'' {{sc|Baron}} ''throws away his cigar, takes two quick steps forward, and falls on his knees before the girl''.]

{{csc|Baron}}

Consuelo{{longdash}}

{{csc|Consuelo}}

Please, don't. Get up. Please leave my hand alone.

{{csc|Baron}}

Consuelo!

{{csc|Consuelo}}
[''Disgusted'']: Get up please, it's disgusting—you're so fat.
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[The {{csc|Baron}} gets up. Voices are heard near the door and in the ring. It is the intermission. The clowns come first, talking cheerfully and excitedly. {{sc|He}} leads them, in his clown's dress, with&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mkcmmc3966jxpb4apzlb87kmxlp0thi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132379</id>
      <parentid>15132378</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:14:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132379</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="829" sha1="n0w94jj3scrnxbn3xkk7q0eqkzbokzy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|54|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|54}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{csc|Consuelo}}

No. He told me about it. [''Smiling''] Do you hear the noise in there? That's He getting slapped. Poor thing {{...}} although I know it doesn't hurt, it's only make-believe. The intermission is coming soon.

[''The'' {{sc|Baron}} ''throws away his cigar, takes two quick steps forward, and falls on his knees before the girl''.]

{{csc|Baron}}

Consuelo{{longdash}}

{{csc|Consuelo}}

Please, don't. Get up. Please leave my hand alone.

{{csc|Baron}}

Consuelo!

{{csc|Consuelo}}
[''Disgusted'']: Get up please, it's disgusting—you're so fat.
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[The {{sc|Baron}} gets up. Voices are heard near the door and in the ring. It is the intermission. The clowns come first, talking cheerfully and excitedly. {{sc|He}} leads them, in his clown's dress, with&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>n0w94jj3scrnxbn3xkk7q0eqkzbokzy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132384</id>
      <parentid>15132379</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:15:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132384</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="867" sha1="1k5rxnj7t6wi0hmihzf36s46a1ybcw6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|54|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|54}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{csc|Consuelo}}

No. He told me about it. [''Smiling''] Do you hear the noise in there? That's He getting slapped. Poor thing {{...}} although I know it doesn't hurt, it's only make-believe. The intermission is coming soon.

[''The'' {{sc|Baron}} ''throws away his cigar, takes two quick steps forward, and falls on his knees before the girl''.]

{{csc|Baron}}

Consuelo{{longdash}}

{{csc|Consuelo}}

Please, don't. Get up. Please leave my hand alone.

{{csc|Baron}}

Consuelo!

{{csc|Consuelo}}
[''Disgusted'']: Get up please, it's disgusting—you're so fat.
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
{{italic block/s}}
[The {{sc|Baron}} gets up. Voices are heard near the door and in the ring. It is the intermission. The clowns come first, talking cheerfully and excitedly. {{sc|He}} leads them, in his clown's dress, with&lt;noinclude&gt;{{italic block/e}}
{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1k5rxnj7t6wi0hmihzf36s46a1ybcw6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132411</id>
      <parentid>15132384</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:33:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15132411</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="907" sha1="qv8o7nr0qxgpoly9bg609q1w2ic1y4h" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|54|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

No. He told me about it. [''Smiling''] Do you hear the noise in there? That’s {{sc|He}} getting slapped. Poor thing {{...}} although I know it doesn’t hurt, it’s only make-believe. The intermission is coming soon.

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''The'' {{sc|Baron}} ''throws away his cigar, takes two quick steps forward, and falls on his knees before the girl''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

Consuelo{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Please, don’t. Get up. Please leave my hand alone.

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

Consuelo!

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Disgusted'']: Get up please, it’s disgusting—you’re so fat.

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''The'' {{sc|Baron}} ''gets up. Voices are heard near the door and in the ring. It is the intermission. The clowns come first, talking cheerfully and excitedly. HE leads them, in his clown’s dress, with''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qv8o7nr0qxgpoly9bg609q1w2ic1y4h</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/847</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847668</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132381</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:14:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;me. I should not have let him come so often, seeing that he was married. But I had not enough will-power to prevent him from corning.  “'How am I to tell you what next happened? He became my lover. How did this come about? Can I explain it? Can anyone explain such things? Do you think it could be otherwise when two human beings are drawn toward each other by the irresistible force of a passion by which each of them is possessed? Do you believe, Monsieur,...</comment>
      <origin>15132381</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3041" sha1="b2l4ud8jka4p81ctwttcahphcinmcsq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||MOTHER AND SON!!!|813}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;me. I should not have let him come so often, seeing that he was married.
But I had not enough will-power to prevent him from corning.

“'How am I to tell you what next happened? He became my lover. How did this come about? Can I explain it?
Can anyone explain such things? Do you think it could be otherwise when two human beings are drawn toward
each other by the irresistible force of a passion by which each of them is possessed? Do you believe, Monsieur,
that it is always in our power to resist, that we can keep up the struggle forever, and refuse to yield to the prayers,
the supplications, the tears, the frenzied words, the appeals on bended knees, the transports of passion, with which we are pursued by the man we adore, whom we want to gratify in his slightest wishes, whom we desire to crowd with every possible happiness, and whom, if we are to be guided by a worldly code of honor, we must drive to despair. What strength would it not require?  What a renunciation of happiness? what self-denial? and even what virtuous selfishness?

“'In short, Monsieur, I was his mistress; and I was happy. For twelve years, I was happy. I became — and
this was my greatest weakness and my greatest piece of cowardice — I became his wife’s friend.

“We brought up my son together; we made a man of him, a thorough man,
intelligent, full of sense and resolution, of large and generous ideas. The boy reached the age of seventeen.

“'He, the young man, was fond of my — my lover, almost as fond of him as I was myself, for he had been
equally cherished and cared for by both of us. He used to call him his
“dear friend’ and respected him immensely, having never received from him anything but wise counsels and a
good example of rectitude, honor, and probity. He looked upon him as an old, loyal, and devoted comrade of his
mother, as a sort of moral father, tutor, protector — how am I to describe it?

“'Perhaps the reason why he never asked any questions was that he had been accustomed from his earliest
years to see this man in the house, by his side, and by my side, always concerned about us both.

“'One evening the three of us were to dine together (these were my principal festive occasions), and I waited
for the two of them, asking myself which of them would be the first to arrive. The door opened; it was my
old friend. I went toward him with outstretched arms; and he drew his lips toward mine in a long, delicious kiss.

“All of a sudden, a sound, a rustling which was barely audible, that mysterious sensation which indicated the presence of another person, made us start and turn round with a quick movement. Jean, my son, stood there, livid, staring at us.

“There was a moment of atro-
cious confusion. I drew back holding
out my hands toward my son as if
in supplication; but I could see him no
longer. He had gone.

“We remained facing each other—
my lover and I—crushed, unable te
utter a word. I sank down on an arm-
chair, and I felt a desire, a vague,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>b2l4ud8jka4p81ctwttcahphcinmcsq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132514</id>
      <parentid>15132381</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:58:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132514</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3041" sha1="9bxbvxoahks14nngpcnuo1frai485am" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||MOTHER AND SON!!!|813}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;me. I should not have let him come so often, seeing that he was married.
But I had not enough will-power to prevent him from corning.

“'How am I to tell you what next happened? He became my lover. How did this come about? Can I explain it?
Can anyone explain such things? Do you think it could be otherwise when two human beings are drawn toward
each other by the irresistible force of a passion by which each of them is possessed? Do you believe, Monsieur,
that it is always in our power to resist, that we can keep up the struggle forever, and refuse to yield to the prayers,
the supplications, the tears, the frenzied words, the appeals on bended knees, the transports of passion, with which we are pursued by the man we adore, whom we want to gratify in his slightest wishes, whom we desire to crowd with every possible happiness, and whom, if we are to be guided by a worldly code of honor, we must drive to despair. What strength would it not require?  What a renunciation of happiness? what self-denial? and even what virtuous selfishness?

“'In short, Monsieur, I was his mistress; and I was happy. For twelve years, I was happy. I became — and
this was my greatest weakness and my greatest piece of cowardice — I became his wife’s friend.

“We brought up my son together; we made a man of him, a thorough man,
intelligent, full of sense and resolution, of large and generous ideas. The boy reached the age of seventeen.

“'He, the young man, was fond of my — my lover, almost as fond of him as I was myself, for he had been
equally cherished and cared for by both of us. He used to call him his
“dear friend’ and respected him immensely, having never received from him anything but wise counsels and a
good example of rectitude, honor, and probity. He looked upon him as an old, loyal, and devoted comrade of his
mother, as a sort of moral father, tutor, protector — how am I to describe it?

“'Perhaps the reason why he never asked any questions was that he had been accustomed from his earliest
years to see this man in the house, by his side, and by my side, always concerned about us both.

“'One evening the three of us were to dine together (these were my principal festive occasions), and I waited
for the two of them, asking myself which of them would be the first to arrive. The door opened; it was my
old friend. I went toward him with outstretched arms; and he drew his lips toward mine in a long, delicious kiss.

“All of a sudden, a sound, a rustling which was barely audible, that mysterious sensation which indicated the presence of another person, made us start and turn round with a quick movement. Jean, my son, stood there, livid, staring at us.

“There was a moment of atrocious confusion. I drew back holding
out my hands toward my son as if
in supplication; but I could see him no
longer. He had gone.

“We remained facing each other — my lover and I — crushed, unable to
utter a word. I sank down on an arm-chair, and I felt a desire, a vague,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9bxbvxoahks14nngpcnuo1frai485am</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu/68</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847669</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132382</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:15:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132382</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1479" sha1="lyfz7abqrpvh5e5tiv0opoh4h2lvpui" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{c|( 54 )}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=follow|To smile undaunted at approaching Death, {{pline|415|r}}
And unconcern'd resign departing breath.
Since your exalted speculations fail,
And those refin'd instructions nought avail;
Ah! say what boots th' elab'rate lectures here?
Where Virtue, Courage, Hope submit to Fear. {{pline|420|r}}
Immortal {{sc|Zeno}}'s self would trembling, see
Inexorable Fate beneath the lee:
And {{sc|Epictetus}} at the sight in vain
Attempt his stöic Virtue to retain:
Had {{sc|Socrates}}, who justly claim'd a place {{pline|425|r}}
Amongst the wisest of the human race,
Spectator of such various Horrors been,
His Soul had stagger'd at the dreadful scene.
{{em}}In vain, alas! the axes were prepar'd,
For ev'ry surge o'er-whelms the quiv'ring yard; {{pline|430|r}}
In dire cascade the rushing torrents roar,
And swelling, bounding, foam redoubled to the shore:
Lifted on gath'ring billows, up she flies,
Her shatter'd top half-buried in the skies;
Borne o'er a latent reef, the hull impends, {{pline|435|r}}
Then thund'ring on the marble craggs descends:
Down, on the vale of Death, with horrid cries,
The fated Wretches trembling, cast their eyes,
Lost to all Hope, when lo! a second shock
Bilges the splitting Vessel on the rock; {{pline|440|r}}
Her groaning bulk the dire concussion feels,
And with up heaving floods she nods and reels
Repeated strokes her crashing ribs divide,
She loosens, parts and spreads in ruin o'er the tide.}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|O!}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lyfz7abqrpvh5e5tiv0opoh4h2lvpui</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Esperanto Teacher.pdf/167</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847670</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132388</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:16:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;'''frock''', vestcto. -'''coat''', surtuto.  '''frog''', rano.  '''frolic''', petoli.  frown, sulk’o, -igi.  frugal, Sparema.  fruit, frukto. -ful, fruktodona.  fry, friti, (spawn) frajo. sing pan, pato, fritilo. ,  fuel, bruiajo, hejtajo.  fulfil, plenumi.  fun, Ssercado.  , function, funkcio.  . funeral, enterigiro.  funnel, funclo.  funny, ridinda.  fur, felo ; (—coat) pelto.  furnace, forncgo.  furnish, mebli, provizi.  furrow, sulko.  further, plic,...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1756" sha1="73eq4t1k4m3n55nakuvzxvc280bpq0y" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|144}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''frock''', vestcto. -'''coat''', surtuto.

'''frog''', rano.

'''frolic''', petoli.

frown, sulk’o, -igi.

frugal, Sparema.

fruit, frukto. -ful, fruktodona.

fry, friti, (spawn) frajo. sing
pan, pato, fritilo. ,

fuel, bruiajo, hejtajo.

fulfil, plenumi.

fun, Ssercado.

, function, funkcio.

. funeral, enterigiro.

funnel, funclo.

funny, ridinda.

fur, felo ; (—coat) pelto.

furnace, forncgo.

furnish, mebli, provizi.

furrow, sulko.

further, plic, plimalproksime.

fury, furivzo, furio,

fuse, fandi.

furniture, mebl’o, -aro,

future, estonteco.

G

gadfly, tabano.

gain, gajni, (clock) trorapidi. .
gall, galo. -nut, gajlo.

callerr, yalerio,

gallop, galopi.

game, ludo, casajo.

gap, breco; manko.

gargle, gargari.

garrison, garnizon’o, -i,

gas, paso.

gate, pordego.

gauze, pazo.

gelatine, gelateno.

gem, gemo.

general, generala; generalo. °

generation, generacio,

generous, malavara.

genius, genio, geniulo.
gentle, doléa, neforta, milda.
gentleman, sinjoro.

genus, gento.

germ, germo.

germinate, germi.

gesture, zesto.

ghost, fantomo,

giant, giganto.

gild, ori, orumi.

gill (of sish), branko,

gin, gino.

ginger, zingibro.
gipsy, cigano.
give, doni, donaci.

{kuko
bread, micl.

. glacier, glaciejo.

glass, vitro. a—, glaso. look.
ing—, spegulo,
glaze, glazuri.
glorify, glori.
glove, ganto.
glow, fai brili.
glue, gluo.
glycerine, glicerino.
gnat, kulo.
gnaw, mordeti,
goat, kapro.
goblet, pokalo.

[iro
-worm, lamp-

- goblin, koboldo.

God, Dio.

gold, oro.

goldfinch, kardelo.
golosh, galoso.
goodbye, adiat.

goose, anscrino.
gooseberry, groso.
gospel, evangelio,

gout, podagro,

govern, regi.

governess, guvernistino
graceful, gracia.
gradual, grada, laigrada.
grail, inokult, grefti.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132523</id>
      <parentid>15132388</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:07:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132523</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2002" sha1="90lov9ol24no4lmrudwco213yegf330" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|144}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''frock''', vestcto. -'''coat''', surtuto.

'''frog''', rano.

'''frolic''', petoli.

'''frown''', sulk’o, -igi.

'''frugal''', ŝparema.

'''fruit''', frukto. '''-ful''', fruktodona.

'''fry''', friti, (''spawn'') frajo. '''-ing pan''', pato, fritilo.

'''fuel''', bruiaĵo, hejtaĵo.

'''fulfil''', plenumi.

'''fun''', ŝercado.

'''function''', funkcio.

'''funeral''', enterigiro.

'''funnel''', funclo.

'''funny''', ridinda.

'''fur''', felo ; (''—coat'') pelto.

'''furnace''', fornego.

'''furnish''', mebli, provizi.

'''furrow''', sulko.

'''further''', plie, plimalproksime.

'''fury''', furivzo, furio,

'''fuse''', fandi.

'''furniture''', mebl’o, -aro,

'''future''', estonteco.

{{c|'''G'''}}

'''gadfly''', tabano.

'''gain''', gajni, (''clock'') trorapidi.

'''gall''', galo. '''-nut''', gajlo.

'''gallery''', galerio,

'''gallop''', galopi.

'''game''', ludo, casajo.

'''gap''', breco; manko.

'''gargle''', gargari.

'''garrison''', garnizon’o, -i,

'''gas''', paso.

'''gate''', pordego.

'''gauze''', gazo.

'''gelatine''', gelateno.

'''gem''', gemo.

'''general''', ĝenerala; generalo.

generation, generacio,

generous, malavara.

genius, genio, geniulo.
gentle, doléa, neforta, milda.
gentleman, sinjoro.

genus, gento.

germ, germo.

germinate, germi.

gesture, zesto.

ghost, fantomo,

giant, giganto.

gild, ori, orumi.

gill (of sish), branko,

gin, gino.

ginger, zingibro.
gipsy, cigano.
give, doni, donaci.

{kuko
bread, micl.

. glacier, glaciejo.

glass, vitro. a—, glaso. look.
ing—, spegulo,
glaze, glazuri.
glorify, glori.
glove, ganto.
glow, fai brili.
glue, gluo.
glycerine, glicerino.
gnat, kulo.
gnaw, mordeti,
goat, kapro.
goblet, pokalo.

[iro
-worm, lamp-

- goblin, koboldo.

God, Dio.

gold, oro.

goldfinch, kardelo.
golosh, galoso.
goodbye, adiat.

goose, anscrino.
gooseberry, groso.
gospel, evangelio,

gout, podagro,

govern, regi.

governess, guvernistino
graceful, gracia.
gradual, grada, laigrada.
grail, inokult, grefti.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>90lov9ol24no4lmrudwco213yegf330</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132533</id>
      <parentid>15132523</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:17:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132533</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2315" sha1="clv1pxytrbq31tj6s3mba3tm80rfkfi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|144}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''frock''', vestcto. -'''coat''', surtuto.

'''frog''', rano.

'''frolic''', petoli.

'''frown''', sulk’o, -igi.

'''frugal''', ŝparema.

'''fruit''', frukto. '''-ful''', fruktodona.

'''fry''', friti, (''spawn'') frajo. '''-ing pan''', pato, fritilo.

'''fuel''', bruiaĵo, hejtaĵo.

'''fulfil''', plenumi.

'''fun''', ŝercado.

'''function''', funkcio.

'''funeral''', enterigiro.

'''funnel''', funclo.

'''funny''', ridinda.

'''fur''', felo ; (''—coat'') pelto.

'''furnace''', fornego.

'''furnish''', mebli, provizi.

'''furrow''', sulko.

'''further''', plie, plimalproksime.

'''fury''', furivzo, furio,

'''fuse''', fandi.

'''furniture''', mebl’o, -aro,

'''future''', estonteco.

{{c|'''G'''}}

'''gadfly''', tabano.

'''gain''', gajni, (''clock'') trorapidi.

'''gall''', galo. '''-nut''', gajlo.

'''gallery''', galerio,

'''gallop''', galopi.

'''game''', ludo, casajo.

'''gap''', breco; manko.

'''gargle''', gargari.

'''garrison''', garnizon’o, -i,

'''gas''', paso.

'''gate''', pordego.

'''gauze''', gazo.

'''gelatine''', gelateno.

'''gem''', gemo.

'''general''', ĝenerala; generalo.

'''generation''', generacio.

'''generous''', malavara.

'''genius''', genio, geniulo.

'''gentle''', dolĉa, neforta, milda.

'''gentleman''', sinjoro.

'''genus''', gento.

'''germ''', ĝermo.

'''germinate''', ĝermi.

'''gesture''', zesto.

'''ghost''', fantomo,

'''giant''', giganto.

'''gild''', ori, orumi.

'''gill''' (''of fish''), branko,

'''gin''', ĝino.

'''ginger''', zingibro. '''-bread''', mielkuko

'''gipsy''', cigano.

'''give''', doni, donaci.

'''glacier''', glaciejo.

'''glass''', vitro. '''a—''', glaso. '''looking—''', spegulo,

'''glaze''', glazuri.

'''glorify''', glori.

'''glove''', ganto.

'''glow''', fai brili. '''-worm''', lampiro

'''glue''', gluo.

'''glycerine''', glicerino.

'''gnat''', kulo.

'''gnaw''', mordeti.

'''goat''', kapro.

'''goblet''', pokalo.

'''goblin''', koboldo.

'''God''', Dio.

'''gold''', oro.

'''goldfinch''', kardelo.

'''golosh''', galoŝo.

'''goodbye''', adiaǔ

'''goose''', anserino.

'''gooseberry''', groso.

'''gospel''', evangelio.

'''gout''', podagro.

'''govern''', regi.

'''governess''', guvernistino

'''graceful''', gracia.

'''gradual''', grada, laǔgrada.

'''graft''', inokuli, grefti.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Author:George Augustus Cobbold</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
    <id>4847671</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132390</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:18:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TE(æ)A,ea.</username>
        <id>2831151</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{author |firstname=George Augustus |lastname=Cobbold |last-initial=Co |birthyear=1857 |deathyear=1916 |description= }} ==Works== *''[[Religion in Japan]]'' (1894) {{esl|https://archive.org/details/religioninjapans00cobbiala}} (2d ed., 1905) {{esl|https://archive.org/details/religioninjapans00cobbuoft}} ===Works about Cobbold=== *{{Oxon link|Cobbold, Rev. George Augustus|1876}} {{PD-old}} {{authority control}}&quot;</comment>
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      <text bytes="413" sha1="a0ugsplauiio8tcn3gqmkf0m35etvsn" xml:space="preserve">{{author
|firstname=George Augustus
|lastname=Cobbold
|last-initial=Co
|birthyear=1857
|deathyear=1916
|description=
}}
==Works==
*''[[Religion in Japan]]'' (1894) {{esl|https://archive.org/details/religioninjapans00cobbiala}} (2d ed., 1905) {{esl|https://archive.org/details/religioninjapans00cobbuoft}}
===Works about Cobbold===
*{{Oxon link|Cobbold, Rev. George Augustus|1876}}
{{PD-old}}
{{authority control}}</text>
      <sha1>a0ugsplauiio8tcn3gqmkf0m35etvsn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132537</id>
      <parentid>15132390</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:21:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>now linked to Wikidata</comment>
      <origin>15132537</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="381" sha1="m2zqcaoeygezjgk6iq63xrr14xh8bfw" xml:space="preserve">{{author
|firstname=George Augustus
|lastname=Cobbold
|last-initial=Co
|description=
}}
==Works==
*''[[Religion in Japan]]'' (1894) {{esl|https://archive.org/details/religioninjapans00cobbiala}} (2d ed., 1905) {{esl|https://archive.org/details/religioninjapans00cobbuoft}}
===Works about Cobbold===
*{{Oxon link|Cobbold, Rev. George Augustus|1876}}
{{PD-old}}
{{authority control}}</text>
      <sha1>m2zqcaoeygezjgk6iq63xrr14xh8bfw</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Shipwreck - Falconer (1762).djvu/69</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847673</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132396</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:24:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132396</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1420" sha1="m1sot2s6qjjxahptlp50s3wqjg3m54j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{c|( 55 )}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=follow|{{em}}O! were it mine, with tuneful [[Author:Virgil|{{sc|Maro}}'s]] Art,
To wake to Sympathy the feeling heart;
Like him, the smooth and mournful Verse to dress,
In all the Pomp of exquisite Distress!
Then, try'd in ev'ry peril I relate,
Then might I sing the Horrors of their Fate,
Who, on the verge of Death, in vain deplore
Impervious Dangers on a leeward shore.
{{em}}As o'er the surf, the bending main-mast hung,
The shrouds still grasping, thirty Seamen clung,
Some on a broken cragg were struggling cast,
And grappled there by oozy tangles fast:
Awhile they bear th' o'erwhelming surges' beat,
And wage unequal combat with their Fate;
Benumb'd and feeble, they at length forego
Their slipp'ry hold, and sink to shades below.
Some from the main-yard-arm reluctant thrown,
Dash'd on the reefs, expire without a groan.
Four Youths depending on their Skill, in vain,
On oars and rafts descend into the Main,
Of whom, by sweeping surges one is drove
Ashore, all maim'd, a ling'ring Death to prove;
The rest a speedier end of Mis'ries knew,
And press'd the stony beech, a lifeless Crew.
Next from the rigging, terrible to tell!
Shook from their hold, nine gasping Sailors fell:
With these the Chief and second in command
Increas'd the numbers on the death-fraught strand.
Five grapple yet secure the floating mast,
Of all the former gallant Crew the last:}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|Till}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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        <id>2855804</id>
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      <text bytes="1516" sha1="49k4t7oq4oz2kug5pbsuko57dz5cmoy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Chrisguise&quot; /&gt;{{c|( 55 )}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|start=follow|end=follow|{{em}}O! were it mine, with tuneful [[Author:Virgil|{{sc|Maro}}'s]] Art, {{pline|445|r}}
To wake to Sympathy the feeling heart;
Like him, the smooth and mournful Verse to dress,
In all the Pomp of exquisite Distress!
Then, try'd in ev'ry peril I relate,
Then might I sing the Horrors of their Fate, {{pline|450|r}}
Who, on the verge of Death, in vain deplore
Impervious Dangers on a leeward shore.
{{em}}As o'er the surf, the bending main-mast hung,
The shrouds still grasping, thirty Seamen clung,
Some on a broken cragg were struggling cast, {{pline|455|r}}
And grappled there by oozy tangles fast:
Awhile they bear th' o'erwhelming surges' beat,
And wage unequal combat with their Fate;
Benumb'd and feeble, they at length forego
Their slipp'ry hold, and sink to shades below. {{pline|460|r}}
Some from the main-yard-arm reluctant thrown,
Dash'd on the reefs, expire without a groan.
Four Youths depending on their Skill, in vain,
On oars and rafts descend into the Main,
Of whom, by sweeping surges one is drove {{pline|465|r}}
Ashore, all maim'd, a ling'ring Death to prove;
The rest a speedier end of Mis'ries knew,
And press'd the stony beech, a lifeless Crew.
Next from the rigging, terrible to tell!
Shook from their hold, nine gasping Sailors fell: {{pline|470|r}}
With these the Chief and second in command
Increas'd the numbers on the death-fraught strand.
Five grapple yet secure the floating mast,
Of all the former gallant Crew the last:}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|Till}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>49k4t7oq4oz2kug5pbsuko57dz5cmoy</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:NBS Circular 553.djvu/122</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847674</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132408</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:32:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132408</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5930" sha1="kzavy02xn5coxdeo5o4bbtjkbtloqqo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;ShakespeareFan00&quot; /&gt;{|
|-
!Color name 
!Source 
!ISCC-NBS color designation with serial number from sec. 14
|-&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|-
|Gray, Beige (see Beige Gray)||P, T
|-
|Gray, Blackish Mouse (see Blackish Mouse Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Blue (see Blue Gray) F, S
|-
|Gray, Cadet (see Cadet Gray) R, T
|-
|Gray, Castor (see Castor Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Celadon (see Celadon Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Charcoal (see Charcoal Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Chicadee (see Chicadee Gray)||M
|-
|Gray, Citron (see Citron Gray)||P, T
|-
|Gray, Clear Green-Blue (see Clear Green-Blue Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Clear Payne's (see Clear Payne's Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Cloud (see Cloud Gray)||P
|-
|Gray, Court (see Court Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Covert (see Covert Gray)||T
|-
|Dark Gray (MA) (same as Engine Gray (AN 513))||F||d.Gy 266
|-
|Dark Gray (USA 122) (same as Engine Gray (AN 513))||F||d.Gy 266
|-
|Dark Gray||RC||d.Gy 266
|-
|Dark Gray||S||d.bGy 192
|-
|Dark Gray||SC||brGy 64, OlGy 113, d.Gy 266
|-
|Gray, Dark Covert (see Dark Covert Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Dark Green-Blue (see Dark Green-Blue Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Dark Gull (see Dark Gull Gray)||F, R
|-
|Gray, Dark Heliotrope (see Dark Heliotrope Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Dark Jade (see Dark Jade Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Dark Mouse (see Dark Mouse Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Dark Neutral (see Dark Neutral Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Dark Payne's (see Dark Payne's Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Dark Plumbago (see Dark Plumbago Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Dark Purplish (see Dark Purplish Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Dark Varley's (see Dark Varley's Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Dawn (see Dawn Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Deep Green-Blue (see Deep Green-Blue Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Deep Gull (see Deep Gull Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Deep Heliotrope (see Deep Heliotrope Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Deep Mouse (see Deep Mouse Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Deep Navy (see Deep Navy Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Deep Neutral (see Deep Neutral Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Deep Payne's (see Deep Payne's Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Deep Plumbago (see Deep Plumbago Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Deep Purplish (see Deep Purplish Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Deep Varley's (see Deep Varley's Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Dove (see Dove Gray)||P
|-
|Gray, Dusky Neutral (see Dusky Neutral Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Dusky Purplish (see Dusky Purplish Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Engine (see Engine Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Fashion (see Fashion Gray)||M
|-
|Gray, Firmament (see Firmament Gray)||P
|-
|Gray, French (see French Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Gull (see Gull Gray)||P, R
|-
|Gray, Hathi (see Hathi Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Heliotrope (see Heliotrope Gray)||P, R
|-
|Gray, Hull (see Hull Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Iron (see Iron Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Jade (see Jade Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Lead (see Lead Gray)||T
|-
|Light Gray (AN 602) (same as Light Gull Gray (AN 620))||F||1.Gy 264
|-
|Light Gray (Eng)||F 2660||p.Y 89
|-
|Light Gray (Eng)||F 3040||gy.Y 90
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Gray Tint (MA)
|-
|Light Gray (MA) (same as Medium Gray (N))||F||med.Gy 265
|-
|Light Gray (N)||F||l.Gy 264
|-
|Light Gray (USA 124)||F 1640||med. Gy 265
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}Battleship Gray (PC), Gray (PBS)
|-
|Light Gray (USA 208)||F 2655||gy.Y 90
|-
|Light Gray||RC||l.Gy 264
|-
|Light Gray||SC||pkGy 10, 1.brGy 63, I.gy.yBr 79, gy.Y 90, yGy 93, l.OlGY 112, l.Gy 264, med. Gy 265
|-
|Light Gray||T||l.Gy 264
|-
|Gray, Light Citron (see Light Citron Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Light Gull (see Light Gull Gray)||F, R
|-
|Gray, Light Heliotrope (see Light Heliotrope Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Light Mineral (see Light Mineral Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Light Mistletoe (see Light Mistletoe Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Light Mouse (see Light Mouse Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Light Navy (see Light Navy Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Light Neutral (see Light Neutral Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Light Payne's (see Light Payne's Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Light Plumbago (see Light Plumbago Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Light Varley's (see Light Varley's Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Lilac (see Lilac Gray)||P. S
|-
|Gray, Lush (see Lush Gray)||P
|-
|Gray, Mauve (see Mauve Gray)||T
|-
|Medium Gray (N)||F||l.gy.Ol 109
|-
|Medium Gray (Eng)||F||med. Gy 265
|-
|{{ts|pl1}}|Light Gray (MA), Light Gray Boottopping (PC)
|-
|Medium Gray (USA 123)||F 1625||med.Gy 265
|-
|Medium Gray (USA)||F 3625||l.OlGY 112
|-
|Medium Gray||RC||med.Gy 265, d.Gy 266
|-
|Medium Light Gray||RC||med.Gy 265
|-
|Gray, Medium Navy (see Medium Navy Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Mineral (see Mineral Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Mistletoe (see Mistletoe Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Moss (see Moss Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Mouse (see Mouse Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Navy (see Navy Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Neutral (see Neutral Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Ocean (see Ocean Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Orchid (see Orchid Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Oxford (see Oxford Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Oyster (see Oyster Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Pale Green-Blue (see Pale Green-Blue Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Pale Gull (see Pale Gull Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Pale Mouse (see Pale Mouse Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Pale Neutral (see Pale Neutral Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Pale Payne's (see Pale Payne's Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Pale Purplish (see Pale Purplish Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Pale Smoke (see Pale Smoke Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Pale Varley's (see Pale Varley's Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Pallid Mouse (see Pallid Mouse Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Pallid Neutral (see Pallid Neutral Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Pallid Purplish (see Pallid Purplish Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Payne's (see Payne's Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Peach (see Peach Gray)||P
|-
|Gray, Pearl (see Pearl Gray)||F, M, R, T
|-
|Gray, Plumbago (see Plumbago Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Puritan (see Puritan Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Pussywillow (see Pussywillow Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Rod and Tire (see Rod and Tire Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Rose (see Rose Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Sage (see Sage Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Sea (see Sea Gray)||F
|-
|Gray, Shadow (see Shadow Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Silver (see Silver Gray)||T, TC
|-
|Gray, Sky (see Sky Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Smoke (see Smoke Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Storm, (see Storm Gray)||R
|-
|Gray, Style (see Style Gray)||P
|-
|Gray, Taupe (see Taupe Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Teal (see Teal Gray)||T
|-
|Gray, Varley's (see Varley's Gray)||R
|-
|Very Dark Gray||SC||brGy 64, OlGY 113, d.Gy 266
|-
|Very Light Gray||RC||1.Gy 264&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pirates of Venus.pdf/303</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847675</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132409</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:32:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Red Sneak</username>
        <id>3178501</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;ing crude arrows from still cruder bows. The savages and the klangan were hurling taunts and insults at one another, as well as missiles; it was these sounds that I had heard from a distance blending with the staccato hum of the klangan’s pistols.  Three of the klangan lay motionless upon the turf behind their barrier, apparently dead. The remaining klangan and Duare crouched with pistols in their hands, defending their position and their lives. The sava...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1231" sha1="bqxwy47qagbu1u55d0xjk5io9rw2juy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Red Sneak&quot; /&gt;{{#ifexpr:297 mod 2|{{rh||{{fine|{{uc|Edgar Rice Burroughs}}}}|297}}|{{rh|297|{{fine|{{uc|Pirates of Venus}}}}}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;ing crude arrows from still cruder bows. The savages and the klangan were hurling taunts and insults at one another, as well as missiles; it was these sounds that I had heard from a distance blending with the staccato hum of the klangan’s pistols.

Three of the klangan lay motionless upon the turf behind their barrier, apparently dead. The remaining klangan and Duare crouched with pistols in their hands, defending their position and their lives. The savages cast their stone missiles directly at the three whenever one of them showed any part of his body above the rocky breastwork, but the arrows they dis­charged into the air so that they fell behind the barrier.

Scattered about among the trees and behind rocks were the bodies of fully a dozen hairy sav­ages who had fallen before the fire of the klan­gan, but, while Duare’s defenders had taken heavy toll of the enemy, the outcome of the un­equal battle could have been only the total de­struction of the klangan and Duare had it lasted much longer.

The details which have taken long in the tell­ing I took in at a single glance, nor did I waste&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pirates of Venus.pdf/304</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847676</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132412</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:34:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Red Sneak</username>
        <id>3178501</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;precious time in pondering the best course of action. At any moment one of those crude arrows might pierce the girl I loved; and so my first thought was to divert the attention of the savages, and perhaps their fire, from their in­tended victims to me.  I was slightly behind their position, which gave me an advantage, as also did the fact that I was above them. Yelling like a Comanche, I leaped down the steep side of the canyon, firing my pistol as I cha...</comment>
      <origin>15132412</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1281" sha1="sr4thdy4lyw2bf0fzot0gmvsbsl2znq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Red Sneak&quot; /&gt;{{#ifexpr:298 mod 2|{{rh||{{fine|{{uc|Edgar Rice Burroughs}}}}|298}}|{{rh|298|{{fine|{{uc|Pirates of Venus}}}}}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;precious time in pondering the best course of action. At any moment one of those crude
arrows might pierce the girl I loved; and so my first thought was to divert the attention of the savages, and perhaps their fire, from their in­tended victims to me.

I was slightly behind their position, which gave me an advantage, as also did the fact that I was above them. Yelling like a Comanche, I leaped down the steep side of the canyon, firing my pistol as I charged. Instantly the scene be­low me changed. The savages, taken partially from the rear and unexpectedly menaced by a new enemy, leaped to their feet in momentary bewilderment; and simultaneously the two re­maining klangan, recognizing me and realizing that succor was at hand, sprang from the shelter of their barrier and ran forward to complete the demoralization of the savages.

Together we shot down six of the enemy be­fore the rest finally turned and fled, but they were not routed before one of the klangan was struck full between the eyes by a jagged bit of rock. I saw him fall, and when we were no longer menaced by a foe I went to him, thinking that he was only stunned; but at that time I had&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pirates of Venus.pdf/305</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847677</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132416</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:35:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Red Sneak</username>
        <id>3178501</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;no conception of the force with which these primitive, apelike men cast the missiles from their slings. The fellow’s skull was crushed, and a portion of the missile had punctured his brain. He was quite dead when I reached him.  Then I hastened to Duare. She was standing with a pistol in her hand, tired and dishevelled, but otherwise apparently little worse for the harrowing experiences through which she had passed. I think that she was glad to see me, f...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1258" sha1="0mc3vucsjzvjj7svrvisweittcxxz3q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Red Sneak&quot; /&gt;{{#ifexpr:299 mod 2|{{rh||{{fine|{{uc|Edgar Rice Burroughs}}}}|299}}|{{rh|299|{{fine|{{uc|Pirates of Venus}}}}}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;no conception of the force with which these primitive, apelike men cast the missiles from their slings. The fellow’s skull was crushed, and a portion of the missile had punctured his brain. He was quite dead when I reached him.

Then I hastened to Duare. She was standing with a pistol in her hand, tired and dishevelled, but otherwise apparently little worse for the harrowing experiences through which she had passed. I think that she was glad to see me, for she certainly must have preferred me to the hairy apemen from which I had been instru­mental in rescuing her; yet a trace of fear was reflected in her eyes, as though she were not
quite sure of the nature of the treatment she might expect from me. To my shame, her fears were justified by my past behavior; but I was determined that she should never again have cause to complain of me. I would win her con­fidence and trust, hoping that love might follow in their wake.

There was no light of welcome in her eyes as I approached her, and that hurt me more than I can express. Her countenance reflected more a pathetic resignation to whatever new trials my presence might portend.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 30.djvu/217</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847678</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132417</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:35:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>transferring Cremastra's work from pdf version</comment>
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      <text bytes="1956" sha1="h8ejn72hgf8mt8y9j7mxt56vhsddgh8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|Farquhar.}}—''On New Zealand Starfishes.''|187}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hi|'''Semo clypeatus''', Buchanan White, Ent. Mo. Mag., vol. 15, p. 217.}}
{{hi|Pale ochreous-brown, marked with darker on the head, scutellum, and abdomen. Length, 4–5 mm.}}
''Hab.'' Otago.


{{hi|'''Agandecca annectens''', Buchanan White, Ent. Mo. Mag., vol. 15, p. 218.}}
{{hi|Reddish. Tegmina yellowish, the veins marked with
whitish; commissure of clavus, from the middle to the apex,
piceous. Length, 5 mm.}}
''Hab.'' Otago.


{{hi|'''Ricania australis''', Walker, Cat. Homop. in B.M., p. 430 (''Pochazia'').}}
{{hi|Ferruginous. Tegmina slightly tawny, the fore border near the base testaceous, margin and two imperfect bands brown; wings margined with brown. Length, 5 mm.}}
''Hab.'' Auckland, probably introduced from Australia.


{{hi|'''Cona cælata''', Buchanan White, Ent. Mo. Mag., vol. 15, p. 218.}}
{{hi|Pale-brown, variegated with darker; keels of the head, pronotum, and scutellum generally red. Tegmina hyaline, more or less clouded with brown. Length, 4-6 mm.}}
''Hab.'' Auckland.
{{hanging indent/e}}

{{cr|sp|20}}
{{c|
{{sc|Art.}} XXII.—''Notes on New Zealand Starfishes.''&lt;br/&gt;
By H. {{sc|Farquhar}}.&lt;br/&gt;
Communicated by E. Lukins.&lt;br/&gt;
{{fine|[''Read before the Nelson Philosophical Society, 30th August, 1897.'']}}
}}

'''Asterias calamaria''', Gray.

This is a very variable species, and reminds one of the
variations of ''A. rubens'', as described by Professor Bell, Ann.
and Mag, Nat. Ilist. (6), vii., p. 469 (1891). There are at least two well-marked forms—a large, coarse variety with stout rays, covered with thick skin, having short, stout, truncated, irregular spines on the abactinal surface, often in groups of three or four closely packed together, each group surrounded by a wreath of pedicellaríae at the base, the rows of spines often interrupted; and a more delicate variety, with long, thín, tapering, flexible rays covered with thin skin, the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>h8ejn72hgf8mt8y9j7mxt56vhsddgh8</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133573</id>
      <parentid>15132417</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:34:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ShakespeareFan00</username>
        <id>8435</id>
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      <text bytes="1936" sha1="1ibfvjecvimnwximetkd21qvhg5g5td" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|Farquhar.}}—''On New Zealand Starfishes.''|187}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hi|'''Semo clypeatus''', Buchanan White, Ent. Mo. Mag., vol. 15, p. 217.}}
{{hi|Pale ochreous-brown, marked with darker on the head, scutellum, and abdomen. Length, 4–5 mm.}}
''Hab.'' Otago.


{{hi|'''Agandecca annectens''', Buchanan White, Ent. Mo. Mag., vol. 15, p. 218.}}
{{hi|Reddish. Tegmina yellowish, the veins marked with
whitish; commissure of clavus, from the middle to the apex,
piceous. Length, 5 mm.}}
''Hab.'' Otago.


{{hi|'''Ricania australis''', Walker, Cat. Homop. in B.M., p. 430 (''Pochazia'').}}
{{hi|Ferruginous. Tegmina slightly tawny, the fore border near the base testaceous, margin and two imperfect bands brown; wings margined with brown. Length, 5 mm.}}
''Hab.'' Auckland, probably introduced from Australia.


{{hi|'''Cona cælata''', Buchanan White, Ent. Mo. Mag., vol. 15, p. 218.}}
{{hi|Pale-brown, variegated with darker; keels of the head, pronotum, and scutellum generally red. Tegmina hyaline, more or less clouded with brown. Length, 4-6 mm.}}
''Hab.'' Auckland.


{{cr|sp|20}}
{{c|
{{sc|Art.}} XXII.—''Notes on New Zealand Starfishes.''&lt;br/&gt;
By H. {{sc|Farquhar}}.&lt;br/&gt;
Communicated by E. Lukins.&lt;br/&gt;
{{fine|[''Read before the Nelson Philosophical Society, 30th August, 1897.'']}}
}}

'''Asterias calamaria''', Gray.

This is a very variable species, and reminds one of the
variations of ''A. rubens'', as described by Professor Bell, Ann.
and Mag, Nat. Ilist. (6), vii., p. 469 (1891). There are at least two well-marked forms—a large, coarse variety with stout rays, covered with thick skin, having short, stout, truncated, irregular spines on the abactinal surface, often in groups of three or four closely packed together, each group surrounded by a wreath of pedicellaríae at the base, the rows of spines often interrupted; and a more delicate variety, with long, thín, tapering, flexible rays covered with thin skin, the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/73</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847679</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132418</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:36:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132418</origin>
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      <text bytes="1051" sha1="tsj8n8ilmj1jghroawvj5w3h40gcbph" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|55}}

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''painted eyebrows and white nose; the others are applauding him. Voices of the actors calling: “Bravo! HE.” Then come the actors and actresses, riding-masters, and the rest, all in costume''. {{sc|Zinida}} ''is not among them''. {{sc|Papa Briquet}} ''comes a little later''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Polly}}}}

A hundred slaps! Bravo, {{sc|He}}!

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Not bad, not bad at all. You’ll make a career.

{{c|{{sc|Tilly}}}}

He was the Professor to-day, and we were the students. Here goes another! [''Gives him a clown’s slap. Laughter. All bid good evening to the'' {{sc|Baron}}. ''He is politely rude to these vagabonds who bore him, and remains silent. They seem quite used to it. Enter'' {{sc|Mancini}}. ''He is the same, and with the same cane''.]

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

[''Shaking hands'']: What a success, Baron—and think of it—how the crowd does love slaps. [''Whispering''] Your knees are dusty, Baron, brush them off. The floor is very dirty in here. [''Aloud''] Con-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{dent/m|2em|-2em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''painted eyebrows and white nose; the others are applauding him. Voices of the actors calling: “Bravo! HE.” Then come the actors and actresses, riding-masters, and the rest, all in costume''. {{sc|Zinida}} ''is not among them''. {{sc|Papa Briquet}} ''comes a little later''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Polly}}}}

A hundred slaps! Bravo, {{sc|He}}!

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Not bad, not bad at all. You’ll make a career.

{{c|{{sc|Tilly}}}}

He was the Professor to-day, and we were the students. Here goes another! [''Gives him a clown’s slap. Laughter. All bid good evening to the'' {{sc|Baron}}. ''He is politely rude to these vagabonds who bore him, and remains silent. They seem quite used to it. Enter'' {{sc|Mancini}}. ''He is the same, and with the same cane''.]

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

[''Shaking hands'']: What a success, Baron—and think of it—how the crowd does love slaps. [''Whispering''] Your knees are dusty, Baron, brush them off. The floor is very dirty in here. [''Aloud''] Con-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>stiay2krni9ikgd5c4ye6hovgklapxo</sha1>
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      <origin>15132438</origin>
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      <text bytes="1051" sha1="cqxwx85by22dsck157fibwmrj2ia4cs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|55}}

{{dent/m|2em|-2em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''painted eyebrows and white nose; the others are applauding him. Voices of the actors calling: “Bravo! HE.” Then come the actors and actresses, riding-masters, and the rest, all in costume''. {{sc|Zinida}} ''is not among them''. {{sc|Papa Briquet}} ''comes a little later''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Polly}}}}

A hundred slaps! Bravo, {{sc|He}}!

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Not bad, not bad at all. You’ll make a career.

{{c|{{sc|Tilly}}}}

He was the Professor to-day, and we were the students. Here goes another! [''Gives him a clown’s slap. Laughter. All bid good evening to the'' {{sc|Baron}}. ''He is politely rude to these vagabonds who bore him, and remains silent. They seem quite used to it. Enter'' {{sc|Mancini}}. ''He is the same, and with the same cane''.]

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

[''Shaking hands'']: What a success, Baron—and think of it—how the crowd does love slaps. [''Whispering''] Your knees are dusty, Baron, brush them off. The floor is very dirty in here. [''Aloud''] Con-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pirates of Venus.pdf/306</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847680</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132420</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:37:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Red Sneak</username>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;“You have not been harmed?” I asked. “You are all right?”  “Quite,” she replied. Her eyes passed beyond me, searching the summit of the canyon wall down which I had charged upon the savages. “Where are the others?” she asked in puzzled and slightly troubled tones.  “What others?” I inquired.  “Those who came with you from the ''Sofal'' to search for me.”  “There were no others; I am quite alone.”  Her countenance assumed an even deeper gloom a...&quot;</comment>
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      <text bytes="1229" sha1="rprhqr78ua1vtsguw42yjnk37gxul13" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Red Sneak&quot; /&gt;{{#ifexpr:300 mod 2|{{rh||{{fine|{{uc|Edgar Rice Burroughs}}}}|300}}|{{rh|300|{{fine|{{uc|Pirates of Venus}}}}}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;“You have not been harmed?” I asked. “You are all right?”

“Quite,” she replied. Her eyes passed beyond me, searching the summit of the canyon wall down which I had charged upon the savages. “Where are the others?” she asked in puzzled and slightly troubled tones.

“What others?” I inquired.

“Those who came with you from the ''Sofal'' to search for me.”

“There were no others; I am quite alone.”

Her countenance assumed an even deeper gloom at this announcement. “Why did you come alone?” she asked fearfully.

“To be honest with you, it was through no fault of my own that I came at all at this time,” I explained. “After we missed you from the ''Sofal'', I gave orders to stand by off the coast until the storm abated and we could land a searching party. Immediately thereafter I was swept overboard, a most fortunate circumstance as it turned out; and naturally when I found my­ self safely ashore my first thought was of you. I was searching for you when I heard the shouts of the savages and the sound of pistol fire.”

“You came in time to save me from them,”&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Author:Percy Thorpe</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
    <id>4847681</id>
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      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{author |firstname=Percy |lastname=Thorpe |last-initial=Th |birthyear= |deathyear= |description= }} ==Works== *''History of Japan'' (1895) {{esl|https://archive.org/details/cu31924007714375}} {{PD-old}} {{authority control}}&quot;</comment>
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|firstname=Percy
|lastname=Thorpe
|last-initial=Th
|birthyear=
|deathyear=
|description=
}}
==Works==
*''History of Japan'' (1895) {{esl|https://archive.org/details/cu31924007714375}}
{{PD-old}}
{{authority control}}</text>
      <sha1>7ru19x51yvum2spgkk89i1zce73j4gp</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132534</id>
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        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
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      <comment>linked to WD</comment>
      <origin>15132534</origin>
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      <text bytes="201" sha1="6cuoany8agorxm12bcu2htqoiggvpnd" xml:space="preserve">{{author
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}}
==Works==
*''History of Japan'' (1895) {{esl|https://archive.org/details/cu31924007714375}}
{{PD-old}}
{{authority control}}</text>
      <sha1>6cuoany8agorxm12bcu2htqoiggvpnd</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 30.djvu/283</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847682</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132422</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:38:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>transferring Cremastra's work from pdf version</comment>
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      <text bytes="2660" sha1="9nzlal2eregf4t5fyihz9d194f7t985" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|Drew}}.—''On'' Regalecus,|253}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|
{{sc|Art.}} XXVII.—''Notes on ''Regalecus'' Sp.''&lt;br/&gt;
By S. H. {{sc|Drew}}, F.L.S., Wanganui Museum.
{{fine|[''Read before the Wellington Philosophical Society, 4th August, 1897.'']}}
}}
{{sc|Easter}} gales seem now to have become established facts, and those of last Easter in our Island were quite up to the record. Many sea-birds were blown far inland. The petrels seem to suffer the most, and still more so if hailstones are driven by the fiercer squalls of the south-east gales. Some of the Prions were found alive thirty-six miles from the sea. I saw several albatros, and secured one in immature plumage of the shy albatros (''Diomedea salvini'', Roths.), which had been blown in at Waitolara.

The only fish that has come to hand here from the effects of the gale is a young ''Regalecus'' sp. This uncommon fish was cast ashore at Waikanae, and kindly forwarded to me by Mr. John Field, It was in fairly good order for a ''Regalecus'', though almost broken in two about 18 in. from the tail, the dorsal fin being also very much destroyed. The total length was 7 ft. 4{{sfrac|1|4}} in. The fish tapered very gradually, but the greatest depth seemed to be about 2 ft. from the gill-openings, and was 8{{sfrac|1|2}}in., the dorsal fin here being 2 in. in addition. The head measured 8{{sfrac|1|2}} in. with the mouth open, which is protractile; the eye 1{{sfrac|5|8}} in. in diameter. The length of ventral or oar fins I found to be 3 ft. 1 in. The one bony ray forming the tin was very much the same in thickness and appearance as the quill of a peacock's tail-feather would be if the feather part had been stripped away. The blade parts of these oar-fins were oval in shape, measuring 12 in. by 1 ín., the colour being bright rosy-crimson shaded by deep-blue markings. There were films or finlets along the spine of this fin of the same colours, but no doubt the colours of these tender parts were much altered by the knocking about they received on the beach. The other fins were of a rosy-red colour. The dorsal tin contained 168 rays; pectoral fin, 14. The body of the fish was like bright frosted silver, reminding me much of the satin silver we see so much of now in electro-plate—not shining like a mackerel, but with the surface grained, and much brighter than a frost-fish. The irregular perpendicular markings of deep blue were much wider than in other two much larger specimens I have seen, these being over in. wide. There was no caudal fin; the fish ended abruptly with thick rounded end, and there were no spines at caudal end, as mentioned by Couch: no filament or membrane. The crest&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15132443</id>
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        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <text bytes="2646" sha1="6hspa193nkssp2qtyp3zaho6c0y9w6j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|Drew}}.—''On'' Regalecus,|253}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Art.}} XXVII.—''Notes on'' Regalecus ''Sp.''

By [[Author:Samuel Henry Drew|S. H. {{sc|Drew}}]], F.L.S., Wanganui Museum.

{{fine|[''Read before the Wellington Philosophical Society, 4th August, 1897.'']}}}}

{{sc|Easter}} gales seem now to have become established facts, and those of last Easter in our Island were quite up to the record. Many sea-birds were blown far inland. The petrels seem to suffer the most, and still more so if hailstones are driven by the fiercer squalls of the south-east gales. Some of the Prions were found alive thirty-six miles from the sea. I saw several albatros, and secured one in immature plumage of the shy albatros (''Diomedea salvini'', Roths.), which had been blown in at Waitotara.

The only fish that has come to hand here from the effects of the gale is a young ''Regalecus'' sp. This uncommon fish was cast ashore at Waikanae, and kindly forwarded to me by Mr. John Field, It was in fairly good order for a ''Regalecus'', though almost broken in two about 18 in. from the tail, the dorsal fin being also very much destroyed. The total length was 7 ft. 4¼ in. The fish tapered very gradually, but the greatest depth seemed to be about 2 ft. from the gill-openings, and was 8½ in., the dorsal fin here being 2 in. in addition. The head measured 8½ in. with the mouth open, which is protractile; the eye 1⅝ in. in diameter. The length of ventral or oar fins I found to be 3 ft. 1 in. The one bony ray forming the fin was very much the same in thickness and appearance as the quill of a peacock's tail-feather would be if the feather part had been stripped away. The blade parts of these oar-fins were oval in shape, measuring 12 in. by 1 ín., the colour being bright rosy-crimson shaded by deep-blue markings. There were films or finlets along the spine of this fin of the same colours, but no doubt the colours of these tender parts were much altered by the knocking about they received on the beach. The other fins were of a rosy-red colour. The dorsal fin contained 168 rays; pectoral fin, 14. The body of the fish was like bright frosted silver, reminding me much of the satin silver we see so much of now in electro-plate—not shining like a mackerel, but with the surface grained, and much brighter than a frost-fish. The irregular perpendicular markings of deep blue were much wider than in other two much larger specimens I have seen, these being over ½ in. wide. There was no caudal fin; the fish ended abruptly with thick rounded end, and there were no spines at caudal end, as mentioned by Couch: no filament or membrane. The crest&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 30.djvu/284</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847683</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132423</id>
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        <id>80078</id>
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      <comment>transferring Cremastra's work from pdf version</comment>
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      <text bytes="2251" sha1="qprgotg0bphhkh25s91l91vmvpf7flm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;plumes consisted of six; four were broken away, but the two
left measured 16 in. and 16 in. The liver was bright scarlet.
The stomach was quite empty, except some coarse sand,
small pieces of shell, and pumice-stone that had been swallowed
in the creature's death agony.

{{cr|sp|20}}

{{c|
{{sc|Art.}} XXVIII.—''Notes on Occurrence of ''Regalecus argenteus''
on the Taranaki Coast.''&lt;br/&gt;
By F. E. {{sc|Clarke}}.&lt;br/&gt;
{{fine block|[''Read before the Wellington Philosophical Society, 18th October, 1897'']&lt;br/&gt;
Plates XXVII-XXX.}}
}}
{{sc|The}} specimen came ashore at Moturoa Bay, at the first reef
to the east of the life-boat shed, on the 28th November, 1895,
and, so far as I can learn, is the first recorded occurrence
of the fish on the coasts of the North Island, all those hitherto
obtained having been incidental to the South Island.
It may not be out of place to state that for a couple of
days previous to the stranding of our visitant, and also on
the morning the event happened, the neighbouring sea had
been frequented by several small whales evidently of the
goose-beak variety, and which were both fighting amongst
themselves and were attacked by one or more threshers. In
their rampaging below they may have disturbed the ribband
fish, and so have been the primary cause of its deviation into
shallow water, and so on to the beach.

The finder, Mr. McKay, stated he was sitting quietly
amongst the rocks near the margin of the sea (it being dead
low-water at the time) when, hearing a gentle splashing, he
proceeded to the spot, and discovered the fish, which was not
quite dead, but giving the little tremor now and then which
led to its detection. He informed me it was perfectly un-damaged, except that the two ventral rays were broken off; but I imagine this was done in hauling the fish out of the
water, and placing it in the cart on a board, in which fashion
it was brought up to town, a distance of about two miles.
However, by the time I saw it but one of the rays was left,
and it was only on my drawing attention to it, under the fish,
that the existence of such appendages appeared to be in his
cognisance.

The fish then was not long dead, as a few slight movements or quivering of the muscles occurred. It presented a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2408" sha1="jcx5dxndtrvxt7g2jr4ayukcd3jwa7l" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;{{rh|254|''Transactions.—Zoology.''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=Art27 /&gt;plumes consisted of six; four were broken away, but the two left measured 16 in. and 16¾ in. The liver was bright scarlet. The stomach was quite empty, except some coarse sand, small pieces of shell, and pumice-stone that had been swallowed in the creature's death agony.&lt;section end=Art27 /&gt;


{{cr|sp|20}}


&lt;section begin=Art28 /&gt;{{c|{{sc|Art.}} XXVIII.—''Notes on Occurrence of'' Regalecus argenteus ''on the Taranaki Coast.''

By [[Author:Frank Edward Clarke|F. E. {{sc|Clarke}}]].

{{fine block|[''Read before the Wellington Philosophical Society, 18th October, 1897'']&lt;br/&gt;
Plates XXVII-XXX.}}}}

{{sc|The}} specimen came ashore at Moturoa Bay, at the first reef to the east of the life-boat shed, on the 28th November, 1895, and, so far as I can learn, is the first recorded occurrence of the fish on the coasts of the North Island, all those hitherto obtained having been incidental to the South Island.

It may not be out of place to state that for a couple of days previous to the stranding of our visitant, and also on the morning the event happened, the neighbouring sea had been frequented by several small whales—evidently of the goose-beak variety, and which were both fighting amongst themselves and were attacked by one or more threshers. In their rampaging below they may have disturbed the ribband fish, and so have been the primary cause of its deviation into shallow water, and so on to the beach.

The finder, Mr. McKay, stated he was sitting quietly amongst the rocks near the margin of the sea (it being dead low-water at the time) when, hearing a gentle splashing, he proceeded to the spot, and discovered the fish, which was not quite dead, but giving the little tremor now and then which led to its detection. He informed me it was perfectly un-damaged, except that the two ventral rays were broken off; but I imagine this was done in hauling the fish out of the water, and placing it in the cart on a board, in which fashion it was brought up to town, a distance of about two miles. However, by the time I saw it but one of the rays was left, and it was only on my drawing attention to it, under the fish, that the existence of such appendages appeared to be in his cognisance.

The fish then was not long dead, as a few slight movements or quivering of the muscles occurred. It presented a&lt;section end=Art28 /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/74</title>
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      <text bytes="759" sha1="hqbka0prmsywhtog7ybktvm2osz7g27" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|56|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;suelo, dear child, how do you feel? [''Goes over to his daughter. Sound of laughing, chattering. The waiters from the buffet in the lobby bring in soda and wine. Consuelo’s voice is heard''.]

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

And where is Bezano?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Bows before the'' {{sc|Baron}}, ''affecting intimacy'']: You do not recognize me, Baron?

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

Yes I do. You are the clown, {{sc|He}}.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes I am {{sc|He}} Who Gets Slapped. May I presume to ask you, Baron, did you get your jewels back?

{{c|{{sc|Baron}}}}

What!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I was asked to return some jewels to you, and I take the liberty of{{longdash}} [''The'' {{sc|Baron}} ''turns his back on him—HE laughs loudly''.]
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Pirates of Venus.pdf/307</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;she said, “but for what? What are you going to do with me now?”  “I am going to take you to the coast as quickly as possible,” I replied, “and there we will signal the ''Sofal''. She will send a boat to take us off,”  Duare appeared slightly relieved at this re­cital of my plans. “You will win the undying gratitude of the jong, my father, if you return me to Vepaja unharmed,” she said.  “To have served his daughter shall be reward enough for me,” I r...&quot;</comment>
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      <text bytes="1212" sha1="llcw12jp13137vilznyqsmyjhc3syl6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Red Sneak&quot; /&gt;{{#ifexpr:301 mod 2|{{rh||{{fine|{{uc|Edgar Rice Burroughs}}}}|301}}|{{rh|301|{{fine|{{uc|Pirates of Venus}}}}}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;she said, “but for what? What are you going to do with me now?”

“I am going to take you to the coast as quickly as possible,” I replied, “and there we will signal the ''Sofal''. She will send a boat to take us off,”

Duare appeared slightly relieved at this re­cital of my plans. “You will win the undying gratitude of the jong, my father, if you return me to Vepaja unharmed,” she said.

“To have served his daughter shall be reward enough for me,” I replied, “even though I suc­ceed in winning not even her gratitude.”

“That you already have for what you have just done at the risk of your life,” she assured me, and there was more graciousness in her voice than before.

“What became of Vilor and Moosko?” I asked.

Her lip curled in scorn. “When the kloonobargan attacked us, they fled.”

“Where did they go?” I asked.

“They swam the river and ran away in that direction.” She pointed toward the east.

“Why did the klangan not desert you also?”

“They were told to protect me. They know little else than to obey their superiors, and, too.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 30.djvu/285</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847686</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132428</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:39:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>transferring Cremastra's work from pdf version</comment>
      <origin>15132428</origin>
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      <text bytes="2953" sha1="kwoka5tvf9anv27kqvilk3s7wq0r57v" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;most beautiful and at the same time fragile appearance, looking as if it were made out of brilliant polished silver, the {{ah|jet|black}} markings on the shoulders being very much enhanced thereby, as were also the varied scarlet and bright-red tints of the elevated anterior portions of the dorsal fin or crest, whilst the oval and rounded markings on the sides seemed to alternately intensify or diminish in tone. The first and second elevated portions of the dorsal were exactly as described by Professor Parker (Trans. N.Z. Inst., vol. xx., p. 25), the formula agreeing, but the rays of the third extended, or lower, portion of the dorsal, as may be seen by my enumeration, are much more numerous. In all other particulars but those hereafter described there was perfect agreement also. The fractured pelvic or ventral ray had the shaft partly split and then broken diagonally, making a perfect joint with the stump left on the fish, verifying that there had been no curtailment in its total length, and I have much delight in fully describing and illustrating its peculiar and so far hitherto undetected development. The bony part of the shaft reminded me very much of such portion of the plume of a peacock, but in consistence was much harder. The total length of the filament when fitted in its position was 3 ft. 1{{sfrac|3|4}} in., and it was supplied, as has been before described, along its rearmost or axillary edge with a membrane. This membrane commenced at the axillae with a width of about {{sfrac|3|10}} in., which width was kept for a little distance, but slightly decreasing, then gradually increasing until, at a point about 2 in. from commencement, it had widened to a rounded shape, with a width about equal to twice the height of the lower central portion of the emargination; thus the membrane continued in emarginations or waves of like spacing and proportions until a point 75 in. from the commencement of the spatulate expansion of the extremity was reached; here the membrane terminated, not abruptly, but with a flowing curve from the previous expansion, leaving the now extremely delicate shaft perfectly bare. The regularity of the distances between the summits of the waved outline of the membrane kept pretty constant at the distance (2 in.) noted, but the heights gradually and slightly declined from those near the origin of the shaft of 0.2 in. for the lower and 0.4 in. for the higher portions to near and at the extreme end of the membrane, where the heights were respectively {{sfrac|3|20}} in. for the lower and {{sfrac|3|10}} in. for the higher emargination. The shaft was quite white at the thicker or basal end, darkening at the thinner or terminal. The colour of the membrane. between the more elevated portions was a transparent ruby tint, and at the more elevated portions a bright and opaque scarlet, capped on each summit with an ellipsoidal patch of opaque milk-white. My drawings (Plates XXVIII.–XXX.)&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/75</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847687</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132429</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:41:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="878" sha1="ij25a6pfchrc1uhm8yzpsuk1p26843w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|57}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Whiskey and soda! Believe me, ladies and gents, He will surely make a career. I am an old clown, and I know the crowd. Why to-day, he even eclipsed me—and clouds have covered my Sun. [''Striking it''.] They do not like puzzles, they want slaps! They are longing for them and dreaming about them in their homes. Your health, {{sc|He}}! Another whiskey and soda! He got so many slaps to-day, there would be enough to go round the whole orchestra!

{{c|{{sc|Tilly}}}}

I bet there wouldn’t! [''To Jackson''] Shake!

{{c|{{sc|Polly}}}}

I bet there wouldn’t—I’ll go and count the old mugs.

{{c|{{sc|A Voice}}}}

The orchestra did not laugh{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Because they were getting it, but the galleries did, because they were looking at the orchestra getting slapped. Your health, {{sc|He}}!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pirates of Venus.pdf/308</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847688</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132431</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:42:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Red Sneak</username>
        <id>3178501</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;they like to fight. Having little intelligence and no imagination, they are splendid fighters.”  “I cannot understand why they did not fly away from danger and take you with them when they saw that defeat was certain. That would have insured the safety of all.”  “By the time they were assured of that, it was too late,” she explained. “They could not have risen from behind our protection without being destroyed by the missiles of the kloonobargan.”  This...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1321" sha1="jpj9y5kuow70beoeusznx1xsrdpfsgg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Red Sneak&quot; /&gt;{{#ifexpr:302 mod 2|{{rh||{{fine|{{uc|Edgar Rice Burroughs}}}}|302}}|{{rh|302|{{fine|{{uc|Pirates of Venus}}}}}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;they like to fight. Having little intelligence and no imagination, they are splendid fighters.”

“I cannot understand why they did not fly away from danger and take you with them when
they saw that defeat was certain. That would have insured the safety of all.”

“By the time they were assured of that, it was too late,” she explained. “They could not have risen from behind our protection without being destroyed by the missiles of the kloonobargan.”

This word, by way of parenthesis, is an inter­esting example of the derivation of an Amtorian substantive. Broadly, it means savages; liter­ally, it means hairy men. In the singular, it is nobargan. ''Gan'' is man; ''bar'' is hair. ''No'' is a contraction of ''not'' (with), and is used as a prefix with the same value that the suffix ''y'' has in Eng­lish; therefore ''nobar'' means hairy, ''nobargan'', hairy man. The prefix ''kloo'' forms the plural, and we have ''kloonobargan'' (hairy men), sav­ages.

After determining that the four klangan were dead, Duare, the remaining angan, and I started down the river toward the ocean. On the way Duare told me what had occurred on board the ''Sofal'' the preceding night, and I discovered&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/76</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847689</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132432</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:43:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="841" sha1="qiwoauzevikcbsfi7ob4hc15qx0c4wc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|58|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Your’s Jim! Tell me, why didn’t you let me finish my speech—I was just getting a good start.

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

[''Seriously'']: My friend, because your speech was a sacrilege. Politics—all right. Manners—as much as you want. But Providence—leave it in peace. And believe me, friend, I shut your mouth in time. Didn’t I, Papa Briquet?

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

[''Coming nearer'']: Yes. It was too much like literature. This is not an academy. You forget yourself, {{sc|He}}.

{{c|{{sc|Tilly}}}}

But to shut one’s mouth—faugh{{...|4}}

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

[''In a didactic tone''{{SIC| :|]:}} Whenever one shuts one’s mouth, it is always high time to shut it, unless one is drinking. Hey, whiskey and soda!

{{c|{{sc|Voices}}}}

Whiskey and soda for the Manager!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132434</id>
      <parentid>15132432</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:45:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>SIC does not render brackets</comment>
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      <text bytes="830" sha1="97plxj2xhbd5c16fhzl7vlrkxxyglzi" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|58|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Your’s Jim! Tell me, why didn’t you let me finish my speech—I was just getting a good start.

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

[''Seriously'']: My friend, because your speech was a sacrilege. Politics—all right. Manners—as much as you want. But Providence—leave it in peace. And believe me, friend, I shut your mouth in time. Didn’t I, Papa Briquet?

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

[''Coming nearer'']: Yes. It was too much like literature. This is not an academy. You forget yourself, {{sc|He}}.

{{c|{{sc|Tilly}}}}

But to shut one’s mouth—faugh{{...|4}}

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

[''In a didactic tone'']: Whenever one shuts one’s mouth, it is always high time to shut it, unless one is drinking. Hey, whiskey and soda!

{{c|{{sc|Voices}}}}

Whiskey and soda for the Manager!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Scott's Last Expedition, Volume 2.djvu/574</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847690</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132435</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:46:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.26.238.226</ip>
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      <comment>Created blank page (needs to be marked as not needing to be proofread)</comment>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/77</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847691</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132436</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:47:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="912" sha1="4dtne1u3escepdjgpab6l6gaqxkccwk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh||HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|59}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

But this is obscurantism. Philosophizing again, Briquet?

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

I am not satisfied with you to-day, {{sc|He}}. Why do you tease them? They don’t like it. Your health! A good slap must be clean like a crystal—fft-fft! right side, left side, and done with it. They will like it; they will laugh, and love you. But in your slaps there is a certain bite, you understand, a certain smell{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

But they laughed, nevertheless!

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

But without pleasure, without pleasure, {{sc|He}}. You pay, and immediately draw a draft on their bank; it’s not the right game—they won’t like you.

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

That’s what ''I'' tell him. He had already begun to make them angry.

{{c|{{sc|Bezano}}}}

[''Entering'']: Consuelo, where are you? I have been looking for you—come on. [''Both go out. The''&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/78</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847692</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132440</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:49:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>EncycloPetey</username>
        <id>3239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132440</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="1131" sha1="hhacfm3szoj7y67vutchgk2w68uhkyw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;EncycloPetey&quot; /&gt;{{rh|60|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{sc|Baron}}, ''after hesitating a while, follows them''. {{sc|Mancini}} ''accompanies him respectfully to the door''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Sighs'']: You don’t understand, my dear friends; you are simply old, and have forgotten the smell of the stage.

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Aha! Who is old, my young man?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Don’t be angry, Jim. It’s a play, don’t you understand? I become happy when I enter the ring and hear the music. I wear a mask and I feel humorous. There is a mask on my face, and I play. I may say ''anything'' like a drunkard. Do you understand? Yesterday when I, with this stupid face, was playing the great man, the philosopher [''he assumes a proud monumental pose, and repeats the gesture of the play—general laughter''] I was walking this way, and was telling how great, how wise, how incomparable I was—how God lived in me, how high I stood above the earth—how glory shone above my head [''his voice changes and he is speaking faster''] then you, Jim, you hit me for the first time. And I asked you, “What is it, they’re applauding me?” Then, at the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Scott's Last Expedition, Volume 2.djvu/577</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847693</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132448</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:55:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.26.238.226</ip>
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      <comment>Created page</comment>
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      <text bytes="1711" sha1="ifomipqps0q81cpgxtjf9otkzj83mr7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;24.26.238.226&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{smaller|1912]}}|SECOND ATTEMPT TO RELIEVE CAMPBELL|385}}
{{sidenotes begin|side=left}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and extending fifteen to twenty miles eastward from the extremity of the Drygalski Barrier. On the outskirts thin pancake and small, but very heavy, bay ice floes; the heavy floes becoming more numerous and the new ice heavier the farther the pack is entered, till heavy pack with interspaces all filled with snow slush forms an impenetrable barrier; in places this year's pancake, consolidated and up to one foot thick, in thick slush, forms equally impenetrable barrier owing to its viscous nature.'

In the forenoon of the 3rd the ship was again headed for Cape Evans. From several miles north of Beaufort {{left sidenote|{{smaller|''March'' 3, 1912, 76° 2′ ''S''., 167° 26′ ''E''.}}}} Island to nearly Cape Royds the ship was passing through pancake ice, refrozen into large solid sheets of very varying heaviness but often sufficient to reduce her speed fifty per cent. The wait at Cape Evans was very short; she was only delayed an hour embarking those members going home who had not been able to get on board before, together with Keohane, and then proceeded to Hut Point, where the ice had now broken away to within a quarter of a mile of the hut.

Atkinson and Keohane were landed and a few stores {{left sidenote|{{smaller|''March'' 4, 1912. ''Off Hut Point''.}}}} taken to the hut. The ship then ran for the Glacier Tongue to complete with water, and shortly after 10 {{sc|p.m.}} (the 4th) proceeded again for Terra Nova Bay.

Although only twenty hours had elapsed between the time she passed Cape Royds going south, and repassed it going north, the ice had materially thickened, and&lt;noinclude&gt;{{sidenotes end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/112</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847694</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132450</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:56:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|{{sc|He}}}}  [''In a rage'']: My name here is Hr. I have no other name, do you hear? He Who Gets Slapped. And if you want to stay here, don’t forget it.  {{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}  You are so familiar. As far as I can remember{{longdash}}  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  We are all familiar, here. [''Contemptuously''] Besides, that’s all you deserve, anywhere.  {{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}  [''Humbly'']: You have not forgiven me, {{sc|He}}? [''Silence''.]  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  Ar...</comment>
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      <text bytes="675" sha1="1fl1zhyaf2wrrt0z88v3evtn4whe63t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|94|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|94}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''In a rage'']: My name here is Hr. I have no other name, do you hear? He Who Gets Slapped. And if you want to stay here, don’t forget it.

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}

You are so familiar. As far as I can remember{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

We are all familiar, here. [''Contemptuously''] Besides, that’s all you deserve, anywhere.

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

[''Humbly'']: You have not forgiven me, {{sc|He}}? [''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Are you here with my wife? Is she, too, in the circus?

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

[''Quickly'']: Oh, no! I am alone. She stayed there!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

You've left her already?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132451</id>
      <parentid>15132450</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:56:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <text bytes="677" sha1="a5oow7eiihpv1uh7mj6qpjwchdvr7uq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|94|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|94}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''In a rage'']: My name here is Hr. I have no other name, do you hear? He Who Gets Slapped. And if you want to stay here, don’t forget it.

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

You are so familiar. As far as I can remember{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

We are all familiar, here. [''Contemptuously''] Besides, that’s all you deserve, anywhere.

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

[''Humbly'']: You have not forgiven me, {{sc|He}}? [''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Are you here with my wife? Is she, too, in the circus?

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

[''Quickly'']: Oh, no! I am alone. She stayed there!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

You've left her already?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>a5oow7eiihpv1uh7mj6qpjwchdvr7uq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132452</id>
      <parentid>15132451</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T21:57:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132452</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="677" sha1="0qg1std54fu02sn3kjk1pc3gu67dow6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|94|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|94}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''In a rage'']: My name here is Hr. I have no other name, do you hear? He Who Gets Slapped. And if you want to stay here, don’t forget it.

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

You are so familiar. As far as I can remember{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

We are all familiar, here. [''Contemptuously''] Besides, that’s all you deserve, anywhere.

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

[''Humbly'']: You have not forgiven me, {{sc|He}}? [''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Are you here with my wife? Is she, too, in the circus?

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

[''Quickly'']: Oh, no! I am alone. She stayed there!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

You've left her already?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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[''In a rage'']: My name here is {{sc|He}}. I have no other name, do you hear? He Who Gets Slapped. And if you want to stay here, don’t forget it.

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

You are so familiar. As far as I can remember{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

We are all familiar, here. [''Contemptuously''] Besides, that’s all you deserve, anywhere.

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

[''Humbly'']: You have not forgiven me, {{sc|He}}? [''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Are you here with my wife? Is she, too, in the circus?

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

[''Quickly'']: Oh, no! I am alone. She stayed there!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

You’ve left her already?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute/Volume 30/Article 27</title>
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 | title      = [[../../]]
 | author     = Samuel Henry Drew
 | translator = 
 | section    = Article 27: ''Notes on'' Regalacus ''Sp.''
 | previous   = [[../Article 26/]]
 | next       = [[../Article 28/]]
 | notes      = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Transactions NZ Institute Volume 30.djvu&quot; from=283 to=284 tosection=&quot;Art27&quot; /&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Acadiensis Q2.djvu/137</title>
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{{c|{{xxl|{{blackletter|Lost in the Forests of Acadia in 1677.}}}}}}
{{rule|5em}}
{{c|{{sc|By the late [[Author:Edward Jack|Edward Jack]].}}}}
{{rule|5em}}
{{dhr}}
{{di|O|image=|imgsize=100px}}N A WINTER morning in the year 1677 a party comprising Father Christian LeClerc, M. Henaut de Barbaucannes, a French gentleman who at that date carried on farming at Nepisiguit, on the Bay of Chaleur, and an Indian with his squaw, who carried a baby in her arms, left the mission at the mouth of that river, the clergyman having been called upon by a deputation of Micmacs from the Miramichi some time previously to visit and instruct them. The provisions which they had prepared for the journey consisted of twenty-four small loaves, five to six pounds of flour, three pounds of butter, and a small barrel made of bark, which contained a little brandy. The father had been provided by the religious ladies, &quot;Hospitalières&quot; of Quebec, with a box of confection of hyacinth, a medicine then much in vogue.

Each of the party took his blanket and loaded himself with his pack, in which was part of the food needed for the journey, the squaw taking only her &quot;papoose,&quot; which was indeed load enough, as the sequel will show. This infant Father LeClerc had baptized before leaving, giving him the name of Pierre. Having put on their snow-shoes, they began their journey, continuing it for a distance of twelve or fifteen miles, until the approach of night warned them to prepare a camp, which they did by making a hole in the snow four or five feet deep by means of their snow-shoes. As soon as the earth was reached, the squaw covered it with fir boughs, which she had been gathering&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nop}}
{{gap}}107&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Scott's Last Expedition, Volume 2.djvu/578</title>
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{{sidenotes begin|side=left}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;between Cape Bird and Beaufort Island she forced through with considerable difficulty. The condition off Terra Nova Bay had, if anything, grown worse, and this time the ship was held up when 20 miles E.N.E. of the Barrier.

Finally, on March 7, taking into consideration the {{left sidenote|{{smaller|''March'' 7, 1912, 75° 5′ ''S''., 168° 43′ ''E''.}}}} nature and extent of the pack and the time of the year, the conclusion was reluctantly come to that the ship could not reach Arrival Bay that season, and so she turned north.

The next day a sooty albatross was around the ship—a {{left sidenote|{{smaller|''March'' 8, 73° 32′ ''S''., 174° 12′ ''E''.}}}} most welcome sight, proving the absence of pack to north of her; and from now on large numbers of deep sea birds were always round the ship.

On the 15th and 16th the ''Terra Nova'' passed up the north-east side of the Balleny Islands, closer than any {{left sidenote|{{smaller|''March'' 16, 1912, 66° 44′ ''S''., 164° 48′ ''E''.}}}} other ship had been able to get, except Balleny himself; but either it was foggy or else it snowed so persistently, that nothing was seen of them except on the 16th, when the fog suddenly rolled away for two hours and, through a rift in the clouds, a glimpse of Buckle Island was obtained—part of the side of a snow-capped mountain with the sun on it, a rarely beautiful sight, appearing to be quite detached from anything to do with the earth herself. Before this one of the beautiful little snowy petrels had appeared, telling of ice in the vicinity, so the course was altered more to the northward and, when the fog lifted, icebergs and smaller bits of ice were seen on the port hand. It&lt;noinclude&gt;{{sidenotes end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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[{{sc|HE}} stops, suddenly. Consuelo, loughing, jumps up and runs away, after a quick glance at the gentleman.]
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{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You cheered me up, {{sc|He}}. Good-bye. [''At the door''] You shall get a note to-morrow.

{{c|{{sc|The Bareback Rider}}}}

[''Laughing'']: A jolly fellow, sir. You wanted to see him? There he is. {{sc|He}}, the gentleman wants to see you.

{{c|{{sc|HE}}}}
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{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Is this you?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes! It is I. And you? [''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Must I believe my eyes? Is this ''you'', Mr.{{longdash}}
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{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You cheered me up, {{sc|He}}. Good-bye. [''At the door''] You shall get a note to-morrow.

{{c|{{sc|The Bareback Rider}}}}

[''Laughing'']: A jolly fellow, sir. You wanted to see him? There he is. {{sc|He}}, the gentleman wants to see you.

{{c|{{sc|HE}}}}
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[''The actor bows, and goes away, smiling. Both men take a step toward each other''.]{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Is this you?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes! It is I. And you? [''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Must I believe my eyes? Is this ''you'', Mr.{{longdash}}
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[{{sc|HE}} stops, suddenly. Consuelo, loughing, jumps up and runs away, after a quick glance at the gentleman.]
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{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You cheered me up, {{sc|He}}. Good-bye. [''At the door''] You shall get a note to-morrow.

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[''Laughing'']: A jolly fellow, sir. You wanted to see him? There he is. {{sc|He}}, the gentleman wants to see you.

{{c|{{sc|HE}}}}
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{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Is this you?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes! It is I. And you? [''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Must I believe my eyes? Is this ''you'', Mr.{{longdash}}
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{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You cheered me up, {{sc|He}}. Good-bye. [''At the door''] You shall get a note to-morrow.

{{c|{{sc|The Bareback Rider}}}}

[''Laughing'']: A jolly fellow, sir. You wanted to see him? There he is. {{sc|He}}, the gentleman wants to see you.

{{c|{{sc|HE}}}}
[''In a depressed voice'']: What can I do for you? 
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[''The actor bows, and goes away, smiling. Both men take a step toward each other''.]{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Is this you?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes! It is I. And you? [''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Must I believe my eyes? Is this ''you'', Mr.{{longdash}}
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{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You cheered me up, {{sc|He}}. Good-bye. [''At the door''] You shall get a note to-morrow.

{{c|{{sc|The Bareback Rider}}}}

[''Laughing'']: A jolly fellow, sir. You wanted to see him? There he is. {{sc|He}}, the gentleman wants to see you.

{{c|{{sc|HE}}}}
[''In a depressed voice'']: What can I do for you?
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''The actor bows, and goes away, smiling. Both men take a step toward each other''.]{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Is this you?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes! It is I. And you? [''Silence''.]

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Must I believe my eyes? Is this ''you'', Mr.{{longdash}}
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    <title>Page:Scott's Last Expedition, Volume 2.djvu/579</title>
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{{sidenotes begin|side=left}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;is seldom these little birds are found away from the close vicinity of ice.

Fires were put out on the 18th, a good offing having been made, the position being 64° S., 160° 12′ E.

Between the 21st and the 25th it blew hard, the climax being reached on Sunday night (the 24th), when {{left sidenote|{{smaller|''March'' 24, 1912, 55° 51′ ''S''., 165° 49′ ''E''.}}}} a severe storm was raging, the most severe encountered by the ship during her whole commission. It is a wonderful sight to see a comparatively small ship in a storm, particularly at night; the marvellous way she rides over waves that look as if they must break on board, together with the dense darkness in the heavy squalls, relieved only by the white crests of the waves as they break, is a sight that makes up for a considerable amount of discomfort.

The gale was followed by two days' calm, when Ponting was able to cinematograph the birds feeding {{left sidenote|{{smaller|''March'' 26 ''and'' 27, 52° 20′ ''S''., 167° 33′ ''E''.}}}} close under the ship's stern.

When off the coast of New Zealand a school of sperm whales was seen and followed for some time with the hopes of getting a photograph. The animals, however, were too shy for the ship to approach within reasonable photographic range.

At daybreak on April 1 the ship entered Akaroa harbour to despatch the telegrams with the season's {{left sidenote|{{smaller|''April'' 1. ''Akaroa''.}}}} news. Here we learned of Amundsen's success in his undertaking.

On the 3rd she was berthed alongside the wharf in Lyttelton again, and, needless to say, received with true New Zealand hospitality.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{sidenotes end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Role of Federal Military Forces in Domestic Disorders, 1789-1878.pdf/29</title>
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the militia, had second thoughts. He first proposed to amend his motion to provide that the federal power should extend to &quot;not exceeding one tenth part in any one year&quot; and then to exclude &quot;such part of the Militia as might be required by the States for their own use.&quot; But Thomas Pinkney insisted on the original motion, and there were others who clearly envisaged a well-nigh exclusive federal power over the militia. The convention finally decided to refer the question to a grand committee of one member from each of the eleven states then represented—a committee already constituted to consider the problem of assuming state debts.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref23&quot;/&gt;

On 21 August the Grand Committee reported a clause that was accepted by the convention with minor changes of wording but again only after bitter debate. It was made part of Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution. Congress was to have power

{{smaller|&lt;blockquote&gt;to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref24&quot;/&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;}}

On 23 August the convention approved the &quot;calling forth&quot; clause drafted by the Committee on Detail with only minor revisions (insertion of &quot;to provide for&quot; and deletion of any reference to enforcing treaties since they would be embraced in the general category of laws). With these changes the clause incorporated in Article I, Section 8, read,

{{smaller|&lt;blockquote&gt;Congress shall have power... to provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref25&quot;/&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;}}

Luther Martin, the Maryland delegate who afterward became an ardent opponent of ratification of the Constitution, wrote that there had been &quot;no objection&quot; to this provision, but &quot;it was thought by some that this power ought to be given with certain restrictions.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref26&quot;/&gt;

This militia clause was ambiguous enough, when combined with the power of Congress to call forth the militia to enforce the laws, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions, to raise strong fears that the states were surrendering their control over the militia entirely. The argument to this effect was to reverberate in the state ratifying conventions. The same fear resulted in an addition to the committee's proposal that the president should be &quot;Commander in Chief of the militia of the several states&quot; with the words &quot;when called into the actual service of the United States.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref27&quot;/&gt;

In any case, the Constitution as finally engrossed and referred to the Continental Congress for submission to the states on 17 September 1787 clearly contained provisions authorizing the use of military force in the enforcement of federal law, in the suppression of insurrections against the federal government, and in control of uprisings and domestic violence within the states themselves when their properly constituted authorities should ask for it. It clearly did not go so far as the more ardent centralists desired, for it did not authorize 


{{Reflist|refs=

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref23&quot;&gt;Ibid., pp. 330-32.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref24&quot;&gt;Ibid., pp. 384-89.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref25&quot;&gt;Ibid., p. 390.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref26&quot;&gt;Ibid., 3:307.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=&quot;ref27&quot;&gt;Article II, Section 2. For a discussion of the shaping of the military clauses of the ''Constitution of the United States'' see Richard M. Kohn, ''Eagle and Sword: The Federalists and the Creation of the Military Establishment in America, 1783-1802'' (New York: Free Press, 1975), pp. 75-81.&lt;/ref&gt;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1414" sha1="f2tktg31sseye4zsrjd11w5vlmpc143" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;24.26.238.226&quot; /&gt;{{rh|388|SCOTT'S LAST EXPEDITION|{{smaller|{{sc|[April}}}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;The season had in many ways been a hard one for the engine-room department, but they never failed the ship in any of the difficulties in which she found herself, and, although conditions were often disheartening, the hands kept as willing and cheerful as if everything was going well.

Lieutenant Evans and Drake went home on Expedition business, the members of the shore party who had returned dispersed to their respective duties in civil life, and the men who had joined in New Zealand signed off temporarily for the winter.

Refitting and laying up the ship was hurried on as rapidly as possible and, by the help of the New Zealand Government, arrangements were made for the ship's party to survey Admiralty Bay in the Sounds.

The party were boarded at an accommodation house near French Pass and worked from motor launches, these latter being fitted with the ship's Lucas sounding machines.

The party consisted of thirteen, including officers, and three hands remained in the ship at Lyttelton as ship-keepers.

This work lasted from June 10 to October 15, when it was necessary to return to Lyttelton to prepare for the coming relief voyage.

On the whole for that part of New Zealand the weather this winter was unfavourable, but, in spite of this, a satisfactory amount of work was carried out.

On August 17 we had the great misfortune to lose&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Scott's Last Expedition, Volume 2.djvu/581</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:25:01Z</timestamp>
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      <comment>Created page</comment>
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      <text bytes="1569" sha1="djwusxlr1wl4rmcjele71gi1okn21ah" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;24.26.238.226&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{smaller|1912]}}|DEATH OF BRISSENDEN|389}}
{{sidenotes begin|side=left}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Brissenden by drowning. He was buried on the hillside overlooking the bay, and a marble cross erected to his memory. Robert Brissenden was a first-class man, careful and reliable, besides being a very good messmate, and his loss was very much felt by all.

{{dhr|0.7em}}
{{centre|{{sc|The Third Voyage}}}}

The ship left Lyttelton at 5 {{sc|a.m.}} on December 14, {{left sidenote|{{smaller|''Dec''. 14, 1912. ''Lyttelton''.}}}} 1912. A crowd of friends had collected to bid us farewell and send last messages to our companions in Victoria Land.

At 7 {{sc|p.m.}} that evening we discovered a wretched man stowed away in the lifeboat. On being questioned the stowaway said he was a rabbiter and anxious to make a voyage in the ''Terra Nova'': he appeared to be about thirty-five years of age and not very intelligent. As there was no object in taking this man south we shaped course for the nearest port, Akaroa, in order to land him. Fortunately, the Norwegian barque ''Triton'' was sighted at midnight, and her courteous captain relieved us of our stowaway, promising to land him in Dunedin.

The programme for the third southward voyage included the running of a line of soundings from Banks Peninsula to a point in Lat. 60° S., Long. 170° W. Thence the ship was to proceed due south until the pack was reached, sounding twice daily. After entering the pack she was to continue to force her way southward, keeping approximately on the meridian of 165° W., to sound over&lt;noinclude&gt;{{sidenotes end}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/110</title>
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    <revision>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}  No. I didn't know.  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  Yes, every queen. Beauty has her fool. Wisdom, too. Oh, how many fools she has! Her court is over-crowded with enamoured fools, and the sound of slaps does not cease, even through the night. But I never received such a sweet slap as the one given by my little queen. [''Someone appears at the door. {{sc|Нe}} notices it, and continues to play, making many faces''.] Clown He can have no rival! Who...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1056" sha1="igrqb0orjss92bx0s7mk5jdvdbjknaa" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|92|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|92}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

No. I didn't know.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes, every queen. Beauty has her fool. Wisdom, too. Oh, how many fools she has! Her court is over-crowded with enamoured fools, and the sound of slaps does not cease, even through the night. But I never received such a sweet slap as the one given by my little queen. [''Someone appears at the door. {{sc|Нe}} notices it, and continues to play, making many faces''.] Clown He can have no rival! Who is there who could stand such a deluge of slaps, such a hail-storm of slaps, and not get soaked? [''Feigns to cry aloud.''] &quot;Have pity on me. I am but a poor fool!&quot; 
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''Enter two men: an actor, dressed as a bareback rider, and a gentleman from the audience. He is spare, dressed in black, very respectable. He carries his hat in his hand''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Laughing, embarrassed'']: {{sc|He}}, there is someone here. Stop!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Gets up'']: Who is it? Who dares to intrude in the castle of my queen?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>igrqb0orjss92bx0s7mk5jdvdbjknaa</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132489</id>
      <parentid>15132487</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:28:18Z</timestamp>
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        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132489</origin>
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      <text bytes="1056" sha1="5zm2pikx6fo8crtlm30n92as8ducunf" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|92|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|92}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

No. I didn't know.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes, every queen. Beauty has her fool. Wisdom, too. Oh, how many fools she has! Her court is over-crowded with enamoured fools, and the sound of slaps does not cease, even through the night. But I never received such a sweet slap as the one given by my little queen. [''Someone appears at the door. {{sc|Нe}} notices it, and continues to play, making many faces''.] Clown He can have no rival! Who is there who could stand such a deluge of slaps, such a hail-storm of slaps, and not get soaked? [''Feigns to cry aloud.''] &quot;Have pity on me. I am but a poor fool!&quot; 
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''Enter two men: an actor, dressed as a bareback rider, and a gentleman from the audience. He is spare, dressed in black, very respectable. He carries his hat in his hand''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Laughing, embarrassed'']: {{sc|He}}, there is someone here. Stop!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Gets up'']: Who is it? Who dares to intrude in the castle of my queen?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5zm2pikx6fo8crtlm30n92as8ducunf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133399</id>
      <parentid>15132489</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:45:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133399</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1058" sha1="ioa26en21f2eirt266vj177o474cvok" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|92|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|92}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

No. I didn’t know.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes, every queen. Beauty has her fool. Wisdom, too. Oh, how many fools she has! Her court is over-crowded with enamoured fools, and the sound of slaps does not cease, even through the night. But I never received such a sweet slap as the one given by my little queen. [''Someone appears at the door. {{sc|Нe}} notices it, and continues to play, making many faces''.] Clown He can have no rival! Who is there who could stand such a deluge of slaps, such a hail-storm of slaps, and not get soaked? [''Feigns to cry aloud.''] &quot;Have pity on me. I am but a poor fool!&quot; 
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''Enter two men: an actor, dressed as a bareback rider, and a gentleman from the audience. He is spare, dressed in black, very respectable. He carries his hat in his hand''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Laughing, embarrassed'']: {{sc|He}}, there is someone here. Stop!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Gets up'']: Who is it? Who dares to intrude in the castle of my queen?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ioa26en21f2eirt266vj177o474cvok</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133477</id>
      <parentid>15133399</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T05:58:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <origin>15133477</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1061" sha1="9k8vtbgiffde97l5ivm8it720mgusj5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|92|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|92}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

No. I didn’t know.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes, every queen. Beauty has her fool. Wisdom, too. Oh, how many fools she has! Her court is over-crowded with enamoured fools, and the sound of slaps does not cease, even through the night. But I never received such a sweet slap as the one given by my little queen. [''Someone appears at the door. {{sc|Нe}} notices it, and continues to play, making many faces''.] Clown He can have no rival! Who is there who could stand such a deluge of slaps, such a hail-storm of slaps, and not get soaked? [''Feigns to cry aloud.''] “Have pity on me. I am but a poor fool!”
{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''Enter two men: an actor, dressed as a bareback rider, and a gentleman from the audience. He is spare, dressed in black, very respectable. He carries his hat in his hand''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Laughing, embarrassed'']: {{sc|He}}, there is someone here. Stop!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Gets up'']: Who is it? Who dares to intrude in the castle of my queen?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/109</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847704</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132492</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:34:40Z</timestamp>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}  You are not angry because I struck you? I did not want to really, but you were so—disgusting. And now you are so funny again. You have great talent, {{sc|He}}—or are you drunk?  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  Strike me again.  {{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}  No.  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  I need it for my play. Strike!  {{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}  [''Laughs, and touches his cheek with her fingertips'']: Here, then!  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  Didn't you understand that you are...</comment>
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      <text bytes="700" sha1="5u2q1ogdgc83z9m3mbl6d0kq1erwgxe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|91|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|91}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You are not angry because I struck you? I did not want to really, but you were so—disgusting. And now you are so funny again. You have great talent, {{sc|He}}—or are you drunk?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Strike me again.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

No.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I need it for my play. Strike!

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Laughs, and touches his cheek with her fingertips'']: Here, then!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Didn't you understand that you are a queen, and I a fool who is in love with his queen? Don't you know, Consuelo, that every queen has a fool, and he is always in love with her, and they always beat him for it. НЕ Who Gets Slapped.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132493</id>
      <parentid>15132492</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:34:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132493</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="700" sha1="5y4ixsjnj06rznafpcrly05enlzzdk4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|91|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|91}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You are not angry because I struck you? I did not want to really, but you were so—disgusting. And now you are so funny again. You have great talent, {{sc|He}}—or are you drunk?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Strike me again.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

No.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I need it for my play. Strike!

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Laughs, and touches his cheek with her fingertips'']: Here, then!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Didn't you understand that you are a queen, and I a fool who is in love with his queen? Don't you know, Consuelo, that every queen has a fool, and he is always in love with her, and they always beat him for it. НЕ Who Gets Slapped.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133392</id>
      <parentid>15132493</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:45:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133392</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="704" sha1="kag7e0drheon6unjh1iwi9omxrgp3ih" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|91|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|91}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You are not angry because I struck you? I did not want to really, but you were so—disgusting. And now you are so funny again. You have great talent, {{sc|He}}—or are you drunk?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Strike me again.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

No.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I need it for my play. Strike!

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Laughs, and touches his cheek with her fingertips'']: Here, then!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Didn’t you understand that you are a queen, and I a fool who is in love with his queen? Don’t you know, Consuelo, that every queen has a fool, and he is always in love with her, and they always beat him for it. НЕ Who Gets Slapped.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>kag7e0drheon6unjh1iwi9omxrgp3ih</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/108</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847705</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132495</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:39:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;love you, Consuelo. [''Looks at her in ecstasy and tears—and gets a slap; starting back''.] What's this?  {{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}  A slap! You forget who you are. [''Stands up, with anger in her eyes''.] You are {{sc|He}} Who Gets Slapped! Did you forget it? Some god! With such a face—slapped face! Was it with slaps they threw you down from heaven, god?  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  Wait! Don't stand up! I—did not finish the play!  {{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}  [''Sits'']: T...</comment>
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      <text bytes="686" sha1="hzbz7ldc55ixxx9nihxhr7dns0rdikh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|90|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|90}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;love you, Consuelo. [''Looks at her in ecstasy and tears—and gets a slap; starting back''.] What's this?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

A slap! You forget who you are. [''Stands up, with anger in her eyes''.] You are {{sc|He}} Who Gets Slapped! Did you forget it? Some god! With such a face—slapped face! Was it with slaps they threw you down from heaven, god?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Wait! Don't stand up! I—did not finish the play!

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Sits'']: Then you were playing?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Wait! One minute.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You lied to me. Why did you play so that I believed you?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I am He Who Gets Slapped!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hzbz7ldc55ixxx9nihxhr7dns0rdikh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132497</id>
      <parentid>15132495</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:39:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132497</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="693" sha1="nufwfc7s6ojao3kiqc9bew5ewtc6m9w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|90|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|90}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;love you, Consuelo. [''Looks at her in ecstasy and tears—and gets a slap; starting back''.] What's this?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

A slap! You forget who you are. [''Stands up, with anger in her eyes''.] You are {{sc|He}} Who Gets Slapped! Did you forget it? Some god! With such a face—slapped face! Was it with slaps they threw you down from heaven, god?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Wait! Don't stand up! I—did not finish the play!

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Sits'']: Then you were playing?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Wait! One minute.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You lied to me. Why did you play so that I believed you?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I am {{sc|He}} Who Gets Slapped!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nufwfc7s6ojao3kiqc9bew5ewtc6m9w</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132498</id>
      <parentid>15132497</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:39:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132498</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="693" sha1="on7ru99vm8a10mkri6ghkggqoy7no9e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|90|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|90}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;love you, Consuelo. [''Looks at her in ecstasy and tears—and gets a slap; starting back''.] What's this?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

A slap! You forget who you are. [''Stands up, with anger in her eyes''.] You are {{sc|He}} Who Gets Slapped! Did you forget it? Some god! With such a face—slapped face! Was it with slaps they threw you down from heaven, god?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Wait! Don't stand up! I—did not finish the play!

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Sits'']: Then you were playing?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Wait! One minute.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You lied to me. Why did you play so that I believed you?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I am {{sc|He}} Who Gets Slapped!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>on7ru99vm8a10mkri6ghkggqoy7no9e</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133383</id>
      <parentid>15132498</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:45:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <origin>15133383</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="697" sha1="a7rb8yakyf6s6ux0jrp6aa6i49cof1x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|90|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|90}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;love you, Consuelo. [''Looks at her in ecstasy and tears—and gets a slap; starting back''.] What’s this?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

A slap! You forget who you are. [''Stands up, with anger in her eyes''.] You are {{sc|He}} Who Gets Slapped! Did you forget it? Some god! With such a face—slapped face! Was it with slaps they threw you down from heaven, god?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Wait! Don’t stand up! I—did not finish the play!

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

[''Sits'']: Then you were playing?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Wait! One minute.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

You lied to me. Why did you play so that I believed you?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

I am {{sc|He}} Who Gets Slapped!
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>a7rb8yakyf6s6ux0jrp6aa6i49cof1x</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Strand Magazine (Volume 42).djvu/499</title>
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      <comment>Awaiting image</comment>
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      <text bytes="2551" sha1="kppsuskwudriyqcu6kpu8b5g73m1eoe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;McGhiever&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''MATCHED.''|491}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;They seemed to be so much amused by what they were talking about that I could not help watching them, and I saw one of them tell this story. He struck me as a man who had been in this world about sixty years, and who had lived them every one.

&quot;Have I told you about Alexander King?&quot;

He asked the question, and with one accord his listeners said that he had not; so he told them then.

&quot;Last fall Alexander went on a pleasure cruise to the coast of Florida. On board there was a lady—I don't mean that there {{image missing}} weren't other ladies on the ship, but she was the only one for Alexander. Alexander had had three wives already, and he told me himself that he thought enough was as good as a feast; but the sight of her made him think he'd try again. All the way there and back he made hay of that young female's heart to such an extent that, when he got back to New York, nothing would suit him but that he should rush off to the first handy place, and make her the fourth Mrs. King. But she was not taking any; she was a modest creature, and wanted time to prepare her mind. So he gave her time, as little as she would let him give her, and he spent most of it in buying such articles as New York had to sell ; so that when they had the wedding he had quite a nice collection to pour into the lap of his bride. They were going to Tennessee for the honeymoon, and they went down to the depôt, and they boarded the train. And just before the train was going to start she remembered that she had forgotten something somewhere, and she caught up a bag which contained all he had worth having, as well as some trifles of her own, and she started off to get it. And she left Alexander alone in the train—and he's been alone ever since. Yes, boys, he has. That train started with Alexander alone in it, without even his bag. She had recommended him, like a good and thoughtful wife, careful of her husband's interests, to put all his cash into that bag, and everything he had worth taking ; and he had acted on her advice, and now the bag was gone, and she with it. That's the last he's ever seen of either. Yes, boys, that's a fact. What honeymoon he had he spent all alone, which didn't amount to much; and, from what I have heard, it would seem that he has been spending most of the money he had left on telegraphing descriptions of the bag and the lady to every part of the world. He has met with no success so far, and I take it that his money will give out before he does. So he's a widower once more.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Journal of geology (IA journalofgeology11893univ).pdf/188</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847707</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132507</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:47:03Z</timestamp>
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        <id>2861536</id>
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      <text bytes="5361" sha1="mwc2fwcuifbkworthbs84xv9d79n21a" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;DarkShadowTNT&quot; /&gt;{{fine block|{{rvh|172|''THE VOLCANIC ROCKS OF THE ANDES.''|''THE JOURNAL OF GEOLOGY.''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|TABLE {{roman|2}}.}}
{| class=&quot;j-geol-table decorated datatable&quot; {{ts|bracetable|wnw|font-size:100%}}
|+ {{sc|Chemical Analyses of Volcanic Rocks of the Andes.}}
|-
! !! 1
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 2
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 3
! 4 !! 5 !! 6 !! 7 !! 8 !! 9 !! 10 !! 11 !! 12 !! 13 !! 14 !! 15
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | SiO{{sub|2}}
| 52.02&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.867}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 56.50&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.941}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 57.10&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.951}}
| 58.00&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.966}}
| 58.35&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.972}}
| 59.28&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.988}}
| 60.32&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.005}}
| 62.35&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.039}}
| 63.00&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.050}}
| 63.19&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.050}}
| 63.49&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.058}}
| 63.69&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.061}}
| 66.06&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.101}}
| 72.46&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.207}}
| 73.61&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|1.227}}
|-
| TiO{{sub|2}}
|
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
|
|
| class=&quot;textcell&quot; | tr
|
|
|
| .18
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | Al{{sub|2}}O{{sub|3}}
| 17.14&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.168}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 15.06&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.147}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 17.25&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.169}}
| 18.00&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.176}}
| 16.74&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.164}}
| 18.14&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.177}}
| 16.92&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.165}}
| 17.32&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.169}}
| 18.40&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.180}}
| 18.65&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.183}}
| 12.42&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.121}}
| 15.03&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.147}}
| 15.64&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.153}}
| 12.80&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.125}}
| 12.01&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.117}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | Fe{{sub|2}}O{{sub|3}}
| 7.94&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.049}}
| rowspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|brace|vtp|padding-top:0.25em}} | {{brace3|4.25em|r|width=1em}}
| rowspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|vtp|bn|pt1.5}} | 13.52
| rowspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|brace|vtp|padding-top:0.25em}} | {{brace3|4.25em|r|width=1em}}
| rowspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|vtp|bn|pt1.5}} | 10.75
| 3.72&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.023}}
|
|
| 5.88&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.036}}
| 4.51&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.028}}
| 3.96&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.024}}
| 4.01&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.025}}
| 6.41&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.040}}
| 2.51&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.015}}
|
| 2.32&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.014}}
| 2.27&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.014}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | FeO
| 3.52&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.048}}
| 2.73&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.037}}
| 6.71&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.093}}
| 8.79&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.122}}
| 1.40&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.019}}
|
|
| 1.89&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.026}}
| 1.34&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.018}}
| 2.41&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.033}}
| 3.90&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.054}}
|
|
|-
| MnO
| .85
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
|
| .54
| class=&quot;textcell&quot; | tr
|
| .04
| .10
| .13
| .85
| .55
| .71
|
|
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | MgO
| 3.13&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.078}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 2.72&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.068}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 2.50&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.062}}
| 3.56&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.089}}
| 4.84&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.121}}
| 3.43&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.086}}
| 3.52&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.088}}
| 3.60&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.090}}
| 3.71&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.093}}
| 1.20&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.030}}
| 1.32&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.033}}
| .80&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.020}}
| 2.57&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.064}}
| class=&quot;textcell&quot; {{ts|vtp}} | tr
| .20&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.005}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | CaO
| 11.57&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.206}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 6.23&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.111}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 5.00&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.089}}
| 6.96&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.122}}
| 6.81&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.121}}
| 4.49&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.080}}
| 5.64&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.100}}
| 5.43&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.097}}
| 5.36&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.095}}
| 4.86&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.086}}
| 4.17&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.074}}
| 3.30&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.059}}
| 4.53&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.080}}
| 1.35&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.024}}
| .89&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.015}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | Na{{sub|2}}O
| 2.38&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.038}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 4.55&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.073}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 5.12&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.082}}
| 4.36&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.070}}
| 4.69&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.075}}
| 4.26&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.068}}
| 3.83&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.061}}
| 4.29&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.069}}
| 4.22&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.068}}
| 3.69&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.059}}
| 4.90&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.079}}
| 6.54&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.105}}
| 4.00&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.064}}
| 4.48&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.072}}
| 4.34&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.070}}
|-
| {{ts|vtp}} | K{{sub|2}}O
| .60&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.006}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 1.35&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.014}}
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | 2.10&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.022}}
| 2.12&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.022}}
| 1.18&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.012}}
| 1.85&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.019}}
| 2.42&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.025}}
| 3.13&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.033}}
| 2.36&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.025}}
| 1.95&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.020}}
| 1.78&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.019}}
| 2.46&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.026}}
| 2.36&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.025}}
| 4.11&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.043}}
| 3.82&lt;br&gt;{{smaller|.040}}
|-
| P{{sub|2}}O{{sub|5}}
| class=&quot;textcell&quot; | tr
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| .15
| class=&quot;textcell&quot; | tr
| class=&quot;textcell&quot; | tr
|
|
|
|-
| H{{sub|2}}O
| .28
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | .30
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; | .25
| .32
| .31
|
| .44
| .13
| .36
| .07
| 2.88
| 2.23
| .30
| 2.92
| 3.35
|-
| {{ts|bt}} |
| {{ts|bt}} | 99.45
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|bt}} | 100.23
| colspan=&quot;2&quot; {{ts|bt}} | 100.07
| {{ts|bt}} | 99.77
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.17
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.24
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.37
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.80
| {{ts|bt}} | 101.47
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.07
| {{ts|bt}} | 99.56
| {{ts|bt}} | 99.52
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.09
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.44
| {{ts|bt}} | 100.53
|}

# Portañuela, Volcano Yate, Southern Chili.
# Tunguragua, Ecuador.
# Chimborazo, {{ditto|Ecuador|&quot;}}
# Chimborazo, {{ditto|Ecuador|&quot;}}
# Tunguragua, {{ditto|Ecuador|&quot;}}
# Carahuirazo, {{ditto|Ecuador|&quot;}}
# Chimborazo, {{ditto|Ecuador|&quot;}}
# Pichincha, {{ditto|Ecuador|&quot;}}
# Cachutafruto, Ecuador.
# Tajumbina, Colombia.
# Volcano Yate, Southern Chili.
# Volcano Yate, {{ditto|Southern Chili|&quot;}}
# Tunguragua, Ecuador.
# Guamani, Tablon de Itulgache, Ecuador.
# Oyacachi.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Strand Magazine (Volume 25).djvu/297</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847708</id>
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      <id>15132512</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T22:54:50Z</timestamp>
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        <username>McGhiever</username>
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      <text bytes="3365" sha1="160fieeo6i9espsk5en9v3g9g7x4plk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;McGhiever&quot; /&gt;{{rh||''THE SORCERESS OF THE STRAND.''|287}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;minutely, feeling the walls, and stamping his feet on the ground in order to detect any hollow spot. At last he turned to me and said, slowly:—

&quot;Whoever cried that time yesterday has been removed. There is no use in our staying any longer.&quot;

We retraced our steps and soon found ourselves in the open air. Mrs. Bensasan's eyes were shining with intense excitement. There was a small, angry red spot on the centre of each cheek.

&quot;Well, gentlemen,&quot; she said, &quot;I hope you are satisfied?&quot;

&quot;Absolutely,&quot; replied Vandeleur.

She opened the gate for us and we passed through.

A minute later the excited cry of the released pack broke on our ears.

&quot;Will you walk with me to the railway-station?&quot; asked Vandeleur.

&quot;What!&quot; I cried, in some amazement, &quot;are you going to town?&quot;

&quot;Yes, for a few hours. I have got an idea in my mind. I am haunted by a memory; it goes back a good way, too. I want to have it confirmed; it may bear on this case. If it does I may be able to release Miss Laura, for that she is detained in most undesirable captivity I have not the slightest doubt.&quot;

&quot;What about the robberies?&quot; I asked. &quot;Is there anything of the sort going on?&quot;

&quot;As far as I can tell, nothing. We must hurry, Druce, if I am to catch my train.&quot;

I saw him off and returned slowly to the house. On my way back I met Gerald Hiliers. He was waiting to see me, and began to talk at once on the subject nearest his heart.

&quot;Taganrog will be in control by to-morrow night,&quot; he said. &quot;The exhibition is to take place by electric light, and Mrs. Bensasan is having a small platform raised for us to stand on while she exhibits. She is anxious to accustom the wolves to the flare and light which must be present when she holds her public exhibitions. By the way,&quot; he added, suddenly, &quot;I saw Madame Sara this morning, and she told me that she has given you her confidence. She promised to help me, but on an impossible condition. My father will never part with Orion except for a fabulous price. The diamond is watched day and night by two men, and the safe in which it is secured is practically impregnable. There is no help whatever in that direction.&quot;

&quot;Have you told Madame Sara yet about your father's view of the matter?&quot; I asked.

&quot;Yes.&quot;

&quot;And what did she say?&quot;

&quot;She smiled.&quot;

&quot;Then, Hiliers, I counsel you to beware. I like Madame least of all when she smiles.&quot;

Vandeleur returned rather late that evening. {{Img float
 | file     = Strand mag vol25--p 287--Sorceress of the Strand.jpg
 | width    = 400px
 | align    = right
 | alt      = Illustration of Hiliers gesturing as he speaks to an attentive Druce beside a fence
 | cap      = {{smaller|{{asc|&quot;There is no help whatever in that direction.&quot;}}}}
}} He informed me briefly that he was satisfied with his investigations, and that it was his intention to force Mrs. Bensasan's hand, by means known only to himself, if she did not soon reveal her daughter's whereabouts.

The next day was Wednesday; that night we were to see Mrs. Bensasan in the hour of her triumph. I awoke with an overpowering sense of restlessness and depression. Vandeleur was seen talking earnestly with Mrs. Bensasan soon after breakfast. Their conversation was evidently of an amicable kind, for when it was over she nodded to him, smiled, and hurried off in the direction of the kennels.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Who's Who in the Far East/CONDER, Prof. Josiali</title>
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      <comment>TE(æ)A,ea. moved page [[Who's Who in the Far East/CONDER, Prof. Josiali]] to [[Who's Who in the Far East/Conder, Prof. Josiah]]: Misspelled title</comment>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/846</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847710</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132519</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:03:06Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2937" sha1="a5el5tbfvool970ra4m24vfng2ln8mm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh|812|WORKS OF GUY DE MAUPASSANT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{larger|''Mother and Son!!!''}}}}

{{sc|We}} were chatting in the smoking-room after a dinner at which only men 
were present. We talked about unexpected legacies, strange inheritances. 
Then M. le Brument, who was sometimes called &quot;the illustrious master&quot; 
and at other times the &quot;illustrious advocate,&quot; came and stood with his back to the fire. 

&quot;I have,&quot; he said, &quot;just now to search for an heir who disappeared under peculiarly terrible circumstances. It is 
one of those simple and ferocious dramas of ordinary life, a thing which possibly happens every day, and which 
is nevertheless one of the most dreadful things I know. Here are the facts: 

&quot;Nearly six months ago I got a message to come to the side of a dying woman. She said to me: 

&quot;'Monsieur, I want to intrust to you the most delicate, the most difficult, and the most wearisome mission that 
can be conceived. Be good enough to take cognizance of my will, which is there on the table. A sum of five 
thousand francs is left to you as a fee if you do not succeed and of a hundred thousand francs if you do succeed. I 
want to have my son found after my death.' 

&quot;She asked me to assist her to sit up in the bed, in order that she might be 
able to speak with greater ease, for her voice, broken and gasping, was gurgling in her throat. 

&quot;I saw that I was in the house of a very rich person. The luxurious apartment with a certain simplicity in its 
luxury, was upholstered with materials solid as the walls, and their soft surfaces imparted a caressing sensation, so 
that every word uttered seemed to penetrate their silent depths and to disappear and die there. 

&quot;The dying woman went on: 

&quot;'You are the first to hear my horrible story. I will try to have strength 
enough to go on to the end of it. You must know everything so that you, 
whom I know to be a kind-hearted man as well as a man of the world should 
have a sincere desire to aid me with all your power. 

&quot;'Listen to me. 

&quot;'Before my marriage, I loved a young man, whose suit was rejected by my family because he was not rich 
enough. Not long afterward, I married a man of great wealth. I married him 
through ignorance, through obedience, through indifference, as young girls do marry. 

&quot;'I had a child, a boy. My husband died in the course of a few years. 

&quot;'He whom I had loved had got married, in his turn. When he saw that I 
was a widow, he was crushed by horrible grief at knowing that he was not 
free. He came to see me; he wept and sobbed so bitterly before my eyes that 
it was enough to break my heart. He at first came to see me as a friend. 
Perhaps I ought not to have seen him. What could I do? I was alone, so 
sad, so solitary, so hopeless! And I loved him still. What sufferings we women have sometimes to endure! 

&quot;'I had only him in the world, my parents also being dead. He came frequently; he spent whole evenings with&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|812}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Six Voyages of John Baptista Tavernier.djvu/151</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:16:34Z</timestamp>
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        <id>1938594</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Starting</comment>
      <origin>15132532</origin>
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      <text bytes="2480" sha1="70jhvar2facoxarq6t3yiu5xywh9nu6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;McGhiever&quot; /&gt;{{rule}}
{{rh|{{x-larger|Chap. VII.}}|{{x-larger|''of'' Monsieur {{sc|{{lsp|.2em|Tavernie|r.}}}}}}|{{x-larger|117}}}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;From Mouron to Casin, sha. IOO 

From Casin to Moscow, sha. 250 

So that from Astracan to Moscow they count it sha. 2.950 
which makes 590 Italian miles. 

At Sarataf 'you may go ashore, and so by Land to Moscow. When the Snow is gone you travel, in Wagons, but when the Snow lies, in Sledges. If a man be alone, and that his Goods weigh not above two hundred pounds Taxis weight, they put them into two Bales; and laying them upon the Horses back set the man in the middle, paying for Carriage as much as from Astracan to Moscow.

From Sarataf by Land to Inser at, days 10 

From Jnserat to Tynmekj, days 6 

From Tymnet^ to Cancjuerma, days 8 

From Canquerma to Volodimer, days 6 

Volodimer is a City bigger than Constantinople, where (lands a fair Church upon a Mountain in the City, having been formerly the residence of the Emperours themselves.

From Volodimer to Moscow, days 5

In all, days 35 

Observe by the way that they never go ashore at Scrataf but in case of necessity, when the River begins to be Frozen. For from Scrataf to Infer at is a Journey of ten days, in all which time there is nothing to be had, either for Horse or Man. The Custom is the same at Moscow as at Astracan, that is Five per Cent. All the Asiaticks, Turks, Persians, Armenians, and others, lodge in a sort of Inns : but the Europeans lie in a place by themselves altogether.
{{dhr}}
{{c|''The Names of some Cities and places belonging to the Empire of the Grand'' Signor, ''as they are vulgarly call'd, and in'' Turkish.}}
{{dhr}}
C{{uc|o}}nstantinople after it was taken by Mahomet the second, the twenty-seventh of May, 1453. was call'd by the Turks Istam-Bol; Istam signifying Security, and Boly Spacious, large, or great, as much as to say, Great Security.

Vulgar. Turkish. 

Adrianople, Edrene. 

Burfe, Broufa. 

Belgrade, Beligrade. 

Buda, Boudira. 

Grand Caire, Mefr. 

Alexandretta in Egypt, Iskendrie. 

Mecca, Meqquie. 

'Balfara, Bafra. 

Babylon, Bagdat. 

Nineveh, MoufToul. 

Nifibis, Nisbin. 

Edeffa, Ourfa. 

Tiqueranger, Diarbequir. 

Eva-togea, Tokat. 

T eve T oHpolif, Erzerom. 

Shamiramager, Van. 

Jerufalem, KoutfherifF. 

Tfamas, Cam. 

Tripoli in Syria, Cam Taraboulous. 

Aleppo, Haleb. 

Tripoli in Barbary, Taraboulous. 

Tunis, Tunis. 

Algier, Gezaiir. 

Candy, Guirir. 

Rhodes, Rodes. 

Cyprus 

Kebrcs. 

Chio&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132541</id>
      <parentid>15132532</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-13T23:25:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>McGhiever</username>
        <id>1938594</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Working</comment>
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      <text bytes="2764" sha1="rd5m6l2r5ziatfgnqn4n8098khuw75p" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;McGhiever&quot; /&gt;{{rule}}
{{rh|{{x-larger|Chap. VII.}}|{{x-larger|''of'' Monsieur {{sc|{{lsp|.2em|Tavernie|r.}}}}}}|{{x-larger|117}}}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;From ''Mouron'' to ''Casin'', ''sha.'' {{float right|100}}

From ''Casin'' to ''Moscow'', ''sha.'' {{float right|250}}

So that from ''Astracan'' to ''Moscow'' they count it ''sha.'' {{float right|2950}}&lt;br /&gt;which makes 590 ''Italian'' miles. 

At ''Sarataf'' you may go ashore, and so by Land to ''Moscow''. When the Snow is gone you travel in Wagons, but when the Snow lies, in Sledges. If a man be alone, and that his Goods weigh not above two hundred pounds ''Paris'' weight, they put them into two Bales; and laying them upon the Horses back set the man in the middle, paying for Carriage as much as from ''Astracan'' to ''Moscow''.

From ''Sarataf'' by Land to ''Inserat'', days {{float right|10}}

From ''Inserat'' to ''Tymnek'', days {{float right|6}}

From ''Tymnek'' to ''Canquerma'', days {{float right|8}}

From ''Canquerma'' to ''Volodimer'', days {{float right|6}}

''Volodimer'' is a City bigger than ''Constantinople'', where stands a fair Church upon a Mountain in the City, having been formerly the residence of the Emperours themselves.

From ''Volodimer'' to ''Moscow'', days {{float right|5}}

In all, days {{float right|35}}

Observe by the way that they never go ashore at ''Serataf'' but in case of necessity, when the River begins to be Frozen. For from ''Serataf'' to ''Inserat'' is a Journey of ten days, in all which time there is nothing to be had, either for Horse or Man. The Custom is the same at ''Moscow'' as at ''Astracan'', that is Five ''per Cent''. All the ''Asiaticks'', ''Turks'', ''Persians'', ''Armenians'', and others, lodge in a sort of Inns: but the ''Europeans'' lie in a place by themselves altogether.
{{dhr}}
{{c|''The Names of some Cities and places belonging to the Empire of the Grand'' Signor, ''as they are vulgarly call'd, and in'' Turkish.}}
{{dhr}}
C{{uc|o}}nstantinople after it was taken by Mahomet the second, the twenty-seventh of May, 1453. was call'd by the Turks Istam-Bol; Istam signifying Security, and Boly Spacious, large, or great, as much as to say, Great Security.

Vulgar. Turkish. 

Adrianople, Edrene. 

Burfe, Broufa. 

Belgrade, Beligrade. 

Buda, Boudira. 

Grand Caire, Mefr. 

Alexandretta in Egypt, Iskendrie. 

Mecca, Meqquie. 

'Balfara, Bafra. 

Babylon, Bagdat. 

Nineveh, MoufToul. 

Nifibis, Nisbin. 

Edeffa, Ourfa. 

Tiqueranger, Diarbequir. 

Eva-togea, Tokat. 

T eve T oHpolif, Erzerom. 

Shamiramager, Van. 

Jerufalem, KoutfherifF. 

Tfamas, Cam. 

Tripoli in Syria, Cam Taraboulous. 

Aleppo, Haleb. 

Tripoli in Barbary, Taraboulous. 

Tunis, Tunis. 

Algier, Gezaiir. 

Candy, Guirir. 

Rhodes, Rodes. 

Cyprus 

Kebrcs. 

Chio&lt;noinclude&gt;{{continues|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>United States Code/Title 13/Chapter 1</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title      = [[../../|United States Code]]  | author     = | override_author = the United States government  | translator =   | section    = [[../|Title 13]], Chapter 1. Administration  | previous   = [[../|Title 13. Census]]  | next       = [[../Chapter 13|Chapter 3. Collection and Publication of Statistics]]  | notes      = From the [http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ Cornell Law School U.S. Code Collection] }}  United States Code/Title 13/Chapter 1/Subch...&quot;</comment>
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 | title      = [[../../|United States Code]]
 | author     = | override_author = the United States government
 | translator = 
 | section    = [[../|Title 13]], Chapter 1. Administration
 | previous   = [[../|Title 13. Census]]
 | next       = [[../Chapter 13|Chapter 3. Collection and Publication of Statistics]]
 | notes      = From the [http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ Cornell Law School U.S. Code Collection]
}}

[[United States Code/Title 13/Chapter 1/Subchapter I|Subchapter I—General Provisions]]{{br}}
[[United States Code/Title 13/Chapter 1/Subchapter II|Subchapter II—Officers and Employees]]</text>
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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|[[File:Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom (Scotland) B&amp;W.png|150px]]}}

{{Center|{{xx-larger|School Education (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002}}}} 
{{Center|{{larger|'''2002 asp 2'''}}}}

'''The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 20th December 2001 and received Royal Assent on 22 January 2002'''

An Act of the Scottish Parliament to amend the law about the provision of education for children under school age for whom placing requests have been made; and to make provision relating to the abolition of the post of assistant headteacher.

{{Anchor|1.0}}'''1{{gap}}Placing requests: children under school age'''
:{{Anchor|1.1}}(1) In section 28A of the [[Education (Scotland) Act 1980]] (c.44) (duty of education authority to comply with placing requests)— 
::{{Anchor|1.1.a}}(a) in subsection (1)— 
:::{{Anchor|1.1.a.i}}(i) for “child of school age” there shall be substituted “qualifying child”; and
:::{{Anchor|1.1.a.ii}}(ii) for “and (3A)” there shall be substituted “, (3A) and (3F)”; 
::{{Anchor|1.1.b}}(b) after subsection (3D) there shall be inserted— 
:::“(3F) Where an education authority are carrying out the duty imposed on them by subsection (1) above in respect of a child such as is mentioned in subsection (6)(c) below, they shall place the child in the specified school— 
::::(a) on the date (being the date fixed for that school under section 32(1) and (2) of this Act) next following the making of the placing request; or 
::::(b) where that date has passed, as soon after that date as is reasonably practicable.”; and 
::{{Anchor|1.1.c}}(c) after subsection (5) there shall be added— 
:::“(6) In this section— 
::::“primary school” does not include a nursery school or a nursery class; and 
::::“qualifying child” means— 
:::::(a) a child of school age;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|{{sc|HE}}}}  I did{{...|4}} Give Consuelo to the Jockey—  {{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}  To Bezano? [''Laughs''.] What nonsense you do talk! Oh, I know. It's your joke about Adam and Eve. But please stop it. It's clever, but it compromises the child. She told me about it.  {{sc|He}}  Or give her to me.  {{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}  Have you a billion? [''Laughs''.] Ah, {{sc|He}}, I'm not in the proper mood to listen to your clownish jokes—They say there are terrible...</comment>
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I did{{...|4}} Give Consuelo to the Jockey—

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

To Bezano? [''Laughs''.] What nonsense you do talk! Oh, I know. It's your joke about Adam and Eve. But please stop it. It's clever, but it compromises the child. She told me about it.

{{sc|He}}

Or give her to me.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Have you a billion? [''Laughs''.] Ah, {{sc|He}}, I'm not in the proper mood to listen to your clownish jokes—They say there are terrible jails in this country, and no discriminations are being made between people of my kind, and plain scoundrels. Why do you look at me like that? You're making fun of me?

{{sc|He}}

No.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

I'll never get accustomed to those faces. You're so disgustingly made up.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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I did{{...|4}} Give Consuelo to the Jockey—

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

To Bezano? [''Laughs''.] What nonsense you do talk! Oh, I know. It's your joke about Adam and Eve. But please stop it. It's clever, but it compromises the child. She told me about it.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Or give her to me.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Have you a billion? [''Laughs''.] Ah, {{sc|He}}, I'm not in the proper mood to listen to your clownish jokes—They say there are terrible jails in this country, and no discriminations are being made between people of my kind, and plain scoundrels. Why do you look at me like that? You're making fun of me?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

I'll never get accustomed to those faces. You're so disgustingly made up.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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I did{{...|4}} Give Consuelo to the Jockey—

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

To Bezano? [''Laughs''.] What nonsense you do talk! Oh, I know. It's your joke about Adam and Eve. But please stop it. It's clever, but it compromises the child. She told me about it.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Or give her to me.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Have you a billion? [''Laughs''.] Ah, {{sc|He}}, I'm not in the proper mood to listen to your clownish jokes—They say there are terrible jails in this country, and no discriminations are being made between people of my kind, and plain scoundrels. Why do you look at me like that? You're making fun of me?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

I'll never get accustomed to those faces. You're so disgustingly made up.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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I did{{...|4}} Give Consuelo to the Jockey—

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

To Bezano? [''Laughs''.] What nonsense you do talk! Oh, I know. It’s your joke about Adam and Eve. But please stop it. It’s clever, but it compromises the child. She told me about it.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Or give her to me.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Have you a billion? [''Laughs''.] Ah, {{sc|He}}, I’m not in the proper mood to listen to your clownish jokes—They say there are terrible jails in this country, and no discriminations are being made between people of my kind, and plain scoundrels. Why do you look at me like that? You’re making fun of me?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

I’ll never get accustomed to those faces. You’re so disgustingly made up.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;:::::(b) a child who has commenced attendance at a primary school but is not of school age; or 
:::::(c) a child who is not of school age and who, on the date (being the date fixed under subsections (1) and (2) of section 32 of this Act for the purposes of subsection (6) of that section) next following the making of the request under subsection (1) above, will be eligible under this Act to commence attendance at a primary school.”. 
:{{Anchor|1.2}}(2) Subsection (1) above does not apply in relation to section 28A of that Act as substituted, in relation to a recorded child, by paragraph 3 of Schedule A2 to that Act.
:{{Anchor|1.3}}(3) In section 28G of that Act (placing requests by young persons), after— 
::{{Anchor|1.3.a}}(a) “a”, where it third occurs; and 
::{{Anchor|1.3.b}}(b) “the”, where it second occurs, 
::there shall be inserted “qualifying”.

{{Anchor|2.0}}'''2{{gap}}Provisions relating to the abolition of the post of assistant headteacher'''
:{{Anchor|2.1}}(1) The requirements, under paragraph 1 of Schedule 2 to the [[School Boards (Scotland) Act 1988]] (c.47) (education authority intending to fill a post of headteacher or deputy headteacher must advertise the post and set up an appointment committee for the purposes set out in sub-paragraph (b) of that paragraph), do not apply in the circumstances set out in subsection (2) below.
:{{Anchor|2.2}}(2) Those circumstances are where a person who is an assistant headteacher is to be made a deputy headteacher immediately upon that person’s post as assistant headteacher ceasing to exist.
:{{Anchor|2.3}}(3) In section 11 (appointments) of the 1988 Act, the words “and assistant” are repealed.
:{{Anchor|2.4}}(4) In section 15 (delegation of functions to school boards) of that Act, in sub-paragraph (b) of subsection (2), the words “or assistant” are repealed.
:{{Anchor|2.5}}(5) In Schedule 2 to that Act (appointment of headteachers, deputies and assistants)— 
::{{Anchor|2.5.a}}(a) in paragraph 1, for the words “headteacher, deputy headteacher or assistant” there shall be substituted “headteacher or deputy”; 
::{{Anchor|2.5.b}}(b) in paragraph 10, the words “or assistant headteacher” are repealed; and 
::{{Anchor|2.5.c}}(c) in paragraph 19, the words “or assistant” are repealed.

{{Anchor|3.0}}'''3{{gap}}Short title and commencement'''
:{{Anchor|3.1}}(1) This Act may be cited as the School Education (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002.
:{{Anchor|3.2}}(2) This Act (except this section) comes into force on such day as the Scottish Ministers may by order made by statutory instrument appoint; and different days may be so appointed for different purposes.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|32.5em|height=3px|align=right}}
{{float right|{{smaller|© Crown copyright 2002&lt;br&gt;Printed in the UK by The Stationery Office Limited&lt;br&gt;under the authority and superintendence of Carol Tullo, the Queen’s Printer for Scotland}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="619" sha1="l5cq9y5q2a9uc5qap04fref8uk7b8ux" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = School Education (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002
 | author      = Scottish Parliament | author-nolink = true
 | translator  = 
 | section     = 
 | previous    = 
 | next        = 
 | year        = 2002 | noyear = yes
 | notes       = '''Date of Commencement:''' See [[The School Education (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002 (Commencement) Order 2002|S.S.I 2002/74]]&lt;br&gt;{{UK Legislation link}}
 | portal      = Acts of the Scottish Parliament
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;School Education (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002 (ASP 2002-2 qp).pdf&quot; from=&quot;1&quot;/&gt;

{{OGL3}}
[[Category:Acts of the Scottish Parliament]]</text>
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    <title>The New International Encyclopædia/Japan</title>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;exquisitely refined to trouble ourselves with such things—matters in which a peasant is more competent than ourselves. [''Enter an usher''.] What do you want? The manager is on the stage.  {{c|{{sc|The Usher}}}}  Yes, sir. Baron Regnard wished me to give you this letter.  {{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}  The Baron? Is he there?  {{c|{{sc|the Usher}}}}  Baron Regnard has left. There is no answer.  {{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}  [''Opening the envelope, his hand shaking'']: T...</comment>
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      <text bytes="791" sha1="tkblwvvvd7gnoymp76rrxdtqg2ahm4z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|70|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|70}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;exquisitely refined to trouble ourselves with such things—matters in which a peasant is more competent than ourselves. [''Enter an usher''.] What do you want? The manager is on the stage.

{{c|{{sc|The Usher}}}}

Yes, sir. Baron Regnard wished me to give you this letter.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

The Baron? Is he there?

{{c|{{sc|the Usher}}}}

Baron Regnard has left. There is no answer.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

[''Opening the envelope, his hand shaking'']: The devil—the devil! [''The usher is going''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Just a minute. Why is there no music? This silence {{...}}

{{c|{{sc|The Usher}}}}

It is the act with Madame Zinida and her lions. [''He goes''. {{sc|Mancini}} ''is reading the'' B{{sc|aron}}'s ''note for the second time''.]
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      <text bytes="791" sha1="1tub9jeb5fhxx7o79q3glzqhc9mlwex" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|70|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|70}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;exquisitely refined to trouble ourselves with such things—matters in which a peasant is more competent than ourselves. [''Enter an usher''.] What do you want? The manager is on the stage.

{{c|{{sc|The Usher}}}}

Yes, sir. Baron Regnard wished me to give you this letter.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

The Baron? Is he there?

{{c|{{sc|the Usher}}}}

Baron Regnard has left. There is no answer.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

[''Opening the envelope, his hand shaking'']: The devil—the devil! [''The usher is going''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Just a minute. Why is there no music? This silence {{...}}

{{c|{{sc|The Usher}}}}

It is the act with Madame Zinida and her lions. [''He goes''. {{sc|Mancini}} ''is reading the'' B{{sc|aron}}'s ''note for the second time''.]
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      <text bytes="791" sha1="ngl51ur26izh7rx96f46b79a930uhmr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|70|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|70}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;exquisitely refined to trouble ourselves with such things—matters in which a peasant is more competent than ourselves. [''Enter an usher''.] What do you want? The manager is on the stage.

{{c|{{sc|The Usher}}}}

Yes, sir. Baron Regnard wished me to give you this letter.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

The Baron? Is he there?

{{c|{{sc|The Usher}}}}

Baron Regnard has left. There is no answer.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

[''Opening the envelope, his hand shaking'']: The devil—the devil! [''The usher is going''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Just a minute. Why is there no music? This silence {{...}}

{{c|{{sc|The Usher}}}}

It is the act with Madame Zinida and her lions. [''He goes''. {{sc|Mancini}} ''is reading the'' B{{sc|aron}}'s ''note for the second time''.]
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="793" sha1="azt0luerrw9bwc4m5tvpyoi73c4rkow" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|70|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|70}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;exquisitely refined to trouble ourselves with such things—matters in which a peasant is more competent than ourselves. [''Enter an usher''.] What do you want? The manager is on the stage.

{{c|{{sc|The Usher}}}}

Yes, sir. Baron Regnard wished me to give you this letter.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

The Baron? Is he there?

{{c|{{sc|The Usher}}}}

Baron Regnard has left. There is no answer.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

[''Opening the envelope, his hand shaking'']: The devil—the devil! [''The usher is going''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Just a minute. Why is there no music? This silence {{...}}

{{c|{{sc|The Usher}}}}

It is the act with Madame Zinida and her lions. [''He goes''. {{sc|Mancini}} ''is reading the'' B{{sc|aron}}’s ''note for the second time''.]
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/46</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847719</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132577</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:02:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <origin>15132577</origin>
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      <text bytes="1909" sha1="ii7kq26oibbc3dtx0q7s57efrns31l7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|150|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I learn from many sources that in childhood I exhibited extraordinary mental imbecility. Indeed, if I may credit what is told me on the subject, all who knew me, except my parents, thought me scarcely more than idiotic. Several facts remain in my recollection which support this opinion. I well recollect that school teachers not unfrequently turned me off with little or no attention, as though I was too stupid to learn and too dull to feel neglect, and my school fellows did not forget to add their slight.

I doubt not my appearance at least justified this opinion. I remember myself as little disposed to play, seldom cheerful, and scarcely ever taking the slightest interest in the plays of others. Long weary days I sat upon the floor, thinking, thinking. thinking! occasionally asking a strange, uninfantile question and never getting an answer. My mind wandered over fields that old men shrink from, seeking rest and finding none till darkness gathered thick around and I burst into tears and cried aloud, and with a voice scarcely able to articulate told my mother that my head ached.

During the first and part of the second year of my life my father's residence was in that part of Scipio now included in Ledyard. He left for Manlius in August, 1815, when I was about seventeen months old, and with a singular tenacity of memory I kept that place so perfectly in memory that after twenty years' absence I was able to recognize the location in riding through.

To the present time the recollections of my mother carrying me in her arms, nursing me, and conversing with her sister about me, and of the road along which they walked, and the work going on by the roadside, is as distinct as the events of yesterday. It is the brightest of the few bright spots of my childhood, the only recollection of long years not accompanied with a sensation of pain.
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/47</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847720</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132579</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:04:14Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2018" sha1="k0atntx08959fal7hpn6i7gefe79113" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|151|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Until 1816 my parents remained in Manlius, my father carrying on the farm of Mr. Fleming, an extensive farmer from Maryland, who also kept a very popular tavern on the Great Western turnpike. I have very few recollections of that period beyond an ill-defined but strong attachment to several members of his family and several of the colored people he brought there, though I have seen very few of them in forty years, and none of them in thirty-two. Such are the affections of childhood; at least, they are such with me.

In February, 1816, my father removed with his family to Hanover, Chautauqua County, New York, where he remained twenty years. His first location was two miles northeast of Forestville, and three-fourths of a mile from Walnut Creek, on the east side of the road, at the four corners, but a few years of the latter portion of that period we lived on Walnut Creek flats, in the same neighborhood.

There I grew up, and around that place cluster nearly all the recollections, pleasant and painful, of my childhood and youth.

On our journey I remember Buffalo as a small, straggling village of thirty or forty houses, occupied as taverns and drinking shops; so crowded that it was a matter of favor to get entertainment; where the same low, open, filthy room was used for barroom, dining room and kitchen, and a few hours the latter part of the night accommodated as many drowsy, drunken and tired sleepers as could lie down upon the floor.

From Buffalo we went to the mouth of Cattaraugus Creek on the ice. Father was heavy loaded and obliged to travel slow. There had been a day or two of mild weather; the snow. was melted on the ice and had already thawed many a treacherous opening, and covered with water as the ice was, it was difficult for a stranger to keep the way over the thirty miles of dreary waste of ice without a landmark.

To secure a passage by daylight father got a man who was going with a two-horse sleigh and no load but his wife to take&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/48</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847721</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132581</id>
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      <text bytes="1914" sha1="kg0pcpnzekoa4i121uin9bhn2bfi7qm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|152|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;my mother and her two children as far as Cattaraugus. I only remember that the water sometimes came into the sleigh box, that the driver frequently jumped the horses across wide chasms in the ice, and sometimes found them so wide that he dare not cross them and went great distances around, and that my mother was terribly frightened, and hugged my brother and I to her with an almost suffocating grasp.

I have since I was grown up frequently heard her speak of that passage as having terrified her almost to distraction, a terror much heightened by the continual quarrels and mutual profanity of the couple with whom we rode.

We lost sight of father immediately after starting, and next saw him at Mack's tavern, Cattaraugus. The wind got into the northwest the afternoon of the day we started, and towards night one of the worst snowstorms of that latitude came on, obliterating in a few minutes every vestige of track on the ice, filling the air so that a man could not see the length of sled and team, and rendering it utterly impossible to keep a course even for a few rods.

This storm overtook father midway in the lake, about twenty miles above Buffalo. What he suffered and how he survived none can know, only those who have experienced a similar catastrophe.

I only remember that my mother cried incessantly, and ever and anon clasped my brother and myself convulsively in her arms, till three days passed, when he came to us as one from the dead. Several reports of his death had reached us, some by persons who had seen his frozen body. Whether some persons had really perished and been mistaken for him, or the reports. were wholly false, I do not know, but the former is probable.

From Cattaraugus to my father's place in the same town was then two day's travel, though on an air line not six miles. The route was by Sheridan Center and Forestville.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/49</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847722</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132586</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:08:19Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Eievie</username>
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      <text bytes="1837" sha1="ma141cs3ky33bsi376l0ke8s0ovtoho" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|153|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;I attended school the following summer where the most moderate qualifications for teaching were satisfactory. There were but two scholars who knew the alphabet, and none who spelled &quot;easy words of two syllables.&quot;

From this time till I was twelve years old I attended district school more or less every year, but the terms were usually short, the teachers inexperienced and ill qualified to teach, and my health such as to preclude attentive study or steady attendance. I estimate my attendance during the whole period as equal to six months' steady attendance with health for study.

My parents had good government. Their family were raised without beating. I can remember being very slightly whipped by my father twice and my mother once. My sister was raised without ever suffering chastisement either at home or in school, and my brother's fortune—

{{blockquote|[Here the writing ends as if the writer had been disturbed, and never afterward had opportunity to resume the work.]}}

Copied January 27, 1897.

{{right|{{sc|Chas. J. Strang}},&lt;br&gt;{{gap}}Lansing, Mich.}}

{{heading|II.|center}}

{{ph|NARRATIVE OF LUDLOW P. HILL.}}

In his book on &quot;Ancient and Modern Michilimackinac,&quot; Strang refers to &quot;a disaffected family by the name of Hill.&quot; The writer became acquainted with a member of this family, Ludlow P. Hill, during the summer of 1896, while sojourning in the picturesque region along the east shore of Green Bay. Mr. Hill was induced, after much persuasion, to give his recollections of the Beaver Island community. Though sixty-six years of age, his memory was remarkably clear, and his narrative was told in a straightforward manner. Mr. Hill is at present a resident of Wonewoc, Wis. Following narrative was transcribed from the notes taken at the time of the interview:
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/50</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847723</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132591</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:12:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <text bytes="2004" sha1="24l0qvoorvu3bkd8ceh5t089f49nou3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|154|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;When I went to Beaver Island I was a young man, who had just reached my majority. My family lived in Illinois (Elgin), and it was there that my father became acquainted with Strang and was deeply impressed with his remarkable. powers. Strang induced him to join his Beaver Island colony and to invest his entire possessions there (about $10,000). That is how I came to go there, and all the rest of the family, too. I was the only member of the family who remained outside the Mormon fold, and was the last Gentile on the island. who resisted the authority of King Strang. In fact, I was the last Gentile on the island, but I had to leave, too, for my life was threatened and my stay was made uncomfortable in many ways. It was not merely a secretly conveyed intimation that my departure would add to my personal comfort; I was denounced openly and by name in the tabernacle.

My father found out the charlatanism of Strang soon after reaching the island. Near the southern end of the island (the head) was a splendid property known to the Gentiles as the Cable property, but rechristened Galilee by the Saints owing to the resemblance, fancied or otherwise, of a small lake on the property to the body of water known to biblical readers. This geographical naming in adaptation of Bible places was a favorite one with the Mormons. Enoch was a small cluster of houses near the bay, and west of St. James was a ridge of sand dignified into Mount Pisgah. Lake Galilee was one-fourth mile from the beach and was remarkably deep for an inland lake.

When my father joined the Beaver Islanders, Strang had been carefully nursing his colony for some time, and felt strong enough to assume the airs, if not the title of dictator, as he later did of King. When my father had located, he was informed. that the place he had bought would be managed by another Mormon, who would conduct it for the benefit of the community. He was coolly informed that this other man, who stood&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002 (ASP 2002-4 qp).pdf/1</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="2220" sha1="elcp3ouxkt33038velmgi4w2dokipkn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Penguin1737&quot; /&gt;{{rh|''Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002 (asp 4)''||1}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|[[File:Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom (Scotland) B&amp;W.png|150px]]}}

{{Center|{{xx-larger|Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002}}}}  
{{Center|{{larger|'''2002 asp 4'''}}}}

'''The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 27th February 2002 and received Royal Assent on 8th March 2002'''

An Act of the Scottish Parliament to provide, retrospectively, as to the effect on trial diets in summary proceedings of arrest warrants granted at intermediate diets.

{{Anchor|1.0}}'''1{{gap}}Effect of grant of arrest warrant at intermediate diet'''
:{{Anchor|1.1}}(1) In section 150 of the 1995 Act (which, among other things, gives the court power to order the arrest of an accused who fails to appear at certain diets in summary proceedings), after subsection (3) there are inserted the following subsections— 
::“(3A) The grant, under subsection (3) above, at an intermediate diet of a warrant to apprehend the accused has the effect of discharging the trial diet as respects that accused. 
::(3B) Subsection (3A) above is subject to any order to different effect made by the court when granting the warrant.”.
:{{Anchor|1.2}}(2) The amendment made by subsection (1) above shall be regarded as always having had effect.
:{{Anchor|1.3}}(3) Section 338(1) of the 1975 Act (which was re-enacted by section 150 of the 1995 Act) shall be read as having had effect since the coming into force of section 15 of the 1980 Act with the insertion after paragraph (c) of the following paragraphs— 
::“(ca) the grant, under paragraph (c) above, at an intermediate diet of a warrant to apprehend the accused has the effect of discharging the trial diet as respects that accused; 
::(cb) paragraph (ca) of this subsection is subject to any order to different effect made by the court when granting the warrant.”.
:{{Anchor|1.4}}(4) This section does not operate so as to make incompetent the proceedings at any trial diet which has— 
::{{Anchor|1.4.a}}(a) been completed; or 
::{{Anchor|1.4.b}}(b) been called, but not completed, 
::before this section comes into force.
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/51</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847725</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132593</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:13:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <text bytes="1984" sha1="ak5m05fpmqcnhdzwqzb2ijlc2jwovb6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|155|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;close to Strang, had more business ability. To resist the mandate seemed sheer folly to my father, for it meant ruin. Nobody would have bought him out, because no Gentiles would venture into a nest of pirates, as they regarded the Mormons, and the Mormons, of course, would not buy him. out—they preferred to freeze him out. Without their consent nobody could carry on any business. It was the boycott refined to a point of absolute perfection and success. In those days I was hot-blooded and stubborn, and I wasn't going to give up so easily. So I determined to bid defiance to Strang and his crowd. I had secured the appointment of lighthouse keeper and decided to stick to my post at all hazards. The place paid very poorly—I think not to exceed $500 per annum—but even this was coveted by the Mormons, who were determined upon complete control of the island and everything on it. And they made it hot enough for me, I assure you. Had I consented to be baptized and to join the fold, it would have been pleasant enough, but as I have said, there was a grain of stubbornness about me that made me hot-headed and defiant. I need not give in detail the devices that were employed to make my lot far from hum-drum. I will only narrate one instance. Orders came to me from the King's men that under no circumstances must I harbor any Gentiles, or there would be trouble. Early one raw morning there came to the beach in a leaky boat a couple of half-frozen and half-starved fishermen, who had been wave-tossed in a heavy sea for several days, and asked food and shelter.

&quot;It's as much as your life is worth,&quot; said I, &quot;to be caught. here, and maybe I would fare as bad if I helped you. I'll give you a bite to eat, though, but you had better not stop any longer than necessary, for the Mormons may be here any minute.&quot;

When they heard this I didn't need to hurry them a bit; they didn't even want to stop for something to eat, until I urged&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002 (ASP 2002-4 qp).pdf/2</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847726</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132594</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:14:48Z</timestamp>
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        <id>3062038</id>
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      <text bytes="835" sha1="tfj533nw1oaujq0676t2zczblr3yumz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Penguin1737&quot; /&gt;{{rh|2||''Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002 (asp 4)''}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;:{{Anchor|1.5}}(5) In this section— 
::the “1995 Act” is the [[Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995]] (c.46); 
::the “1975 Act” is the [[Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1975]] (c.21); 
::the “1980 Act” is the [[Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1980]] (c.62).

{{Anchor|2.0}}'''2{{gap}}Short title and commencement'''
:{{Anchor|2.1}}(1) This Act may be cited as the Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002.
:{{Anchor|2.2}}(2) Section 1 above comes into force on the day after Royal Assent.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|32.5em|height=3px|align=right}}
{{float right|{{smaller|© Crown copyright 2002&lt;br&gt;Printed in the UK by The Stationery Office Limited&lt;br&gt;under the authority and superintendence of Carol Tullo, the Queen’s Printer for Scotland}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tfj533nw1oaujq0676t2zczblr3yumz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847727</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132595</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:16:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Penguin1737</username>
        <id>3062038</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Added ASP 2002-4</comment>
      <origin>15132595</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="535" sha1="dctdmmfl1rvhhtt64sdpcf2px4n7j4m" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002
 | author      = Scottish Parliament | author-nolink = true
 | translator  = 
 | section     = 
 | previous    = 
 | next        = 
 | year        = 2002 | noyear = yes
 | notes       = '''Date of Commencement:''' 9 March 2002&lt;br&gt;{{UK Legislation link}}
 | portal      = Acts of the Scottish Parliament
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2002 (ASP 2002-4 qp).pdf&quot; from=&quot;1&quot;/&gt;

{{OGL3}}
[[Category:Acts of the Scottish Parliament]]</text>
      <sha1>dctdmmfl1rvhhtt64sdpcf2px4n7j4m</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/73</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847728</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132596</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:17:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="2008" sha1="qkgy8x2wpncjkzcec05rffl3m1vj4v9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|177|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{blockquote|{{center|
The&lt;br&gt;
BOOK OF THE LAW OF THE LORD&lt;br&gt;
Consisting of&lt;br&gt;
An Inspired Translation of Some of the Most Important Parts of the Law Given to Moses, and a Very Few Additional Commandments, with Brief Notes and References.&lt;br&gt;
{{smaller|PRINTED BY COMMAND OF THE KING}}&lt;br&gt;
AT THE ROYAL PRESS, ST. JAMES,&lt;br&gt;
A. R. I.
}}}}

From the preface:

&quot;Several books are also mentioned in the Bible, but of equal authority with it, which have been lost; as for instance, another epistle of Paul to the Corinthian and the Ephesian churches, and the books of Iddo, Nathan and others, prophets of high rank in Israel.

&quot;But of all the lost books, the most important was the Book of the Law of the Lord. This was kept in the ark of the covenant, and was held too sacred to go into the hands of strangers. When the Septuagint translation was made, the Book of the Law was kept back, and the Book lost to the Jewish nation in the time that they were subject to foreign powers. The various books in the Pentateuch, containing abstracts of some of the laws, have been read instead of it, until even the existence of the book has come to be a matter of doubt.

&quot;It is from an authorized copy of that book, written on metallic plates, long previous to the Babylonish captivity, that this translation is made.&quot;

2. &quot;Collection of Sacred Hymns adapted to the faith and views of the Church of Jesus Christ, of Latter-Day Saints.&quot; Voree: Gospel Press, 1850. Includes:

{{blockquote|{{plainlist|
* &quot;Glorious things of Thee are spoken.&quot; (Zion)
* &quot;Lord, dismiss us with Thy blessing.&quot; (Dismission)
* &quot;Blest be the tie that binds.&quot; (Fraternity)
* &quot;Come, ye sinners, poor and needy.&quot; (Invitation)
* &quot;Come, let us anew, our journey pursue.&quot; (New Year's Resolve)
* &quot;Blow ye the trumpet, blow.&quot; (Gospel Trumpet)
* &quot;How form a foundation, ye saints of the Lord.&quot; (Assurance)
* &quot;Gulde us, O thou great Jehovah.&quot; (Prayer)
* &quot;Lord in the morning thou shalt hear.&quot; (Morning)
}}}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qkgy8x2wpncjkzcec05rffl3m1vj4v9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132597</id>
      <parentid>15132596</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:17:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132597</origin>
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      <text bytes="2004" sha1="gnqp9izrrzgyrnwxz8aj3b8zoo0kik8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|177|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{blockquote|{{center|
The&lt;br&gt;
BOOK OF THE LAW OF THE LORD&lt;br&gt;
Consisting of&lt;br&gt;
An Inspired Translation of Some of the Most Important Parts of the Law Given to Moses, and a Very Few Additional Commandments, with Brief Notes and References.&lt;br&gt;
{{asc|PRINTED BY COMMAND OF THE KING}}&lt;br&gt;
AT THE ROYAL PRESS, ST. JAMES,&lt;br&gt;
A. R. I.
}}}}

From the preface:

&quot;Several books are also mentioned in the Bible, but of equal authority with it, which have been lost; as for instance, another epistle of Paul to the Corinthian and the Ephesian churches, and the books of Iddo, Nathan and others, prophets of high rank in Israel.

&quot;But of all the lost books, the most important was the Book of the Law of the Lord. This was kept in the ark of the covenant, and was held too sacred to go into the hands of strangers. When the Septuagint translation was made, the Book of the Law was kept back, and the Book lost to the Jewish nation in the time that they were subject to foreign powers. The various books in the Pentateuch, containing abstracts of some of the laws, have been read instead of it, until even the existence of the book has come to be a matter of doubt.

&quot;It is from an authorized copy of that book, written on metallic plates, long previous to the Babylonish captivity, that this translation is made.&quot;

2. &quot;Collection of Sacred Hymns adapted to the faith and views of the Church of Jesus Christ, of Latter-Day Saints.&quot; Voree: Gospel Press, 1850. Includes:

{{blockquote|{{plainlist|
* &quot;Glorious things of Thee are spoken.&quot; (Zion)
* &quot;Lord, dismiss us with Thy blessing.&quot; (Dismission)
* &quot;Blest be the tie that binds.&quot; (Fraternity)
* &quot;Come, ye sinners, poor and needy.&quot; (Invitation)
* &quot;Come, let us anew, our journey pursue.&quot; (New Year's Resolve)
* &quot;Blow ye the trumpet, blow.&quot; (Gospel Trumpet)
* &quot;How form a foundation, ye saints of the Lord.&quot; (Assurance)
* &quot;Gulde us, O thou great Jehovah.&quot; (Prayer)
* &quot;Lord in the morning thou shalt hear.&quot; (Morning)
}}}}
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gnqp9izrrzgyrnwxz8aj3b8zoo0kik8</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Marriage (Scotland) Act 2002 (ASP 2002-8 qp).pdf/1</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847729</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132603</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:25:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Penguin1737</username>
        <id>3062038</id>
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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|[[File:Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom (Scotland) B&amp;W.png|150px]]}}

{{Center|{{xx-larger|Marriage (Scotland) Act 2002}}}}  
{{Center|{{larger|'''2002 asp 8'''}}}}

'''The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 27th February 2002 and received Royal Assent on 4th April 2002'''

An Act of the Scottish Parliament to amend the [[Marriage (Scotland) Act 1977]] to enable civil marriages to be solemnised in certain places approved by local authorities; and for connected purposes.

{{Anchor|1.0}}'''1{{gap}}Solemnisation of civil marriages at places approved by local authorities'''
:{{Anchor|1.1}}(1) The [[Marriage (Scotland) Act 1977]] (c.15) shall be amended in accordance with subsections (2) to (4) below.
:{{Anchor|1.2}}(2) In section 18 (places at which civil marriages may be solemnised)— 
::{{Anchor|1.2.a}}(a) in subsection (1), after the word— 
:::{{Anchor|1.2.a.i}}(i) “marriage” there shall be inserted “(a)”; and
:::{{Anchor|1.2.a.ii}}(ii) “office” there shall be added “; or 
::::{{Anchor|1.2.a.ii.b}}(b) at an approved place in his registration district”; 
::{{Anchor|1.2.b}}(b) in subsection (2), after the word— 
:::{{Anchor|1.2.b.i}}(i) “marriage” there shall be inserted “(a)”; and
:::{{Anchor|1.2.b.ii}}(ii) “registrar”, where it second occurs, there shall be added “; or 
::::{{Anchor|1.2.b.ii.b}}(b) at an approved place in the district of another authorised registrar”; and 
::{{Anchor|1.2.c}}(c) after subsection (5), there shall be inserted— 
:::“(6) For the purposes of this section “approved place” means any place approved by virtue of regulations made under section 18A of this Act.”.
:{{Anchor|1.3}}(3) After section 18 there shall be inserted— 
::“'''18A{{gap}}Approved places'''
:::(1) The Scottish Ministers may by regulations make provision for or in connection with the approval by local authorities of places in their areas in which civil marriages may be solemnised.
:::(2) Regulations under subsection (1) above may in particular include provision as to—&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pis2qcdq2phvuzxvghja897fbi64lfi</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/845</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847730</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132605</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:27:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132605</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2623" sha1="sctlrvipdu99plj24ma3a8un26esm2j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||THE QUESTION OF LATIN|811}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;I have saved five thousand francs.&quot; 

She exclaimed triumphantly: 

'Then we can set up in business?&quot; 

He became restless: &quot;In what business?&quot; 

&quot;What do I know about that? We shall see. With five thousand francs, 
we could do many things. You don't want me to go and live in your boarding school, do you?&quot; 

He had not looked forward so far as this, and he stammered in great perplexity: 

&quot;What business could we set up in? It is not convenient, for all I know is Latin!&quot; 

She reflected in her turn, passing in review all the professions which she had longed for. 

&quot;You could not be a doctor?&quot; 

&quot;No, I have not the diploma.&quot; 

&quot;Or a chemist?&quot; 

&quot;No more than the other.&quot; 

She uttered a cry, a cry of joy. She had discovered it. 

&quot;Then we'll buy a grocer's shop! Oh! what luck! we'll buy a grocer's 
shop! Not on a big scale, all the some; with five thousand francs one cannot go far.&quot; 

He was shocked at the suggestion: 

&quot;No, I can't be a grocer. I am — I am — too well known. I only know Latin — that's all I know.&quot; 

But she poured a glass of champagne down his throat. He drank it and was silent. 

We got back into the boat. The night was dark, very dark. I saw clearly, however, that he had caught 
her by the waist, and that they were hugging each other again and again. 

It was a frightful catastrophe. Our escapade was discovered with the result that Pere Piquedent was dismissed. 
And my father, in a fit of anger, sent me to finish my course of philosophy at Ribaudet's School. 

Six months later I passed for my degree of Bachelor of Arts. Then I 
went to study law in Paris, and I did not return to my native town till ten years after. 

At the corner of the Rue de Serpent, a shop caught my eye. Over the door 
were the words: &quot;Colonial products — Piquedent&quot;; then underneath so as to enlighten the most ignorant: &quot;Grocery.&quot; 

I exclaimed: &quot;''Quantum mutatus ab illo!''&quot; 

He raised his head, left his female customer, and rushed toward me with outstretched hands. 

&quot;Ah! my young friend, my young friend, here you are! What luck! What luck!&quot; 

A beautiful woman, very plump, abruptly left the counter and flung 
herself on my breast. I hod some difficulty in recognizing her, so fat had she grown. 

I asked: &quot;So then you're going on well?&quot; 

Piquedent had gone back to weigh the groceries: 

&quot;Oh! very well, very well, very well. I have made three thousand francs clear this year!&quot; 

&quot;And what about the Latin, Monsieur Piquedent?&quot; 

&quot;Oh! goodness gracious! the Latin — the Latin — the Latin. Well, you see, it does not keep the pot boiling!&quot; 
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>sctlrvipdu99plj24ma3a8un26esm2j</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Marriage (Scotland) Act 2002 (ASP 2002-8 qp).pdf/2</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847731</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132607</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:28:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Penguin1737</username>
        <id>3062038</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="2669" sha1="dda51n02r0icrt8gogbtudu1rjmvfr7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Penguin1737&quot; /&gt;{{rh|2||''Marriage (Scotland) Act 2002 (asp 8)''}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;::::(a) the kinds of place in respect of which approvals may be granted; 
::::(b) the procedure to be followed in relation to applications for approval; 
::::(c) the considerations to be taken into account by a local authority in determining whether to approve any places; 
::::(d) the duration and renewal of approvals; 
::::(e) the conditions that shall or may be imposed by a local authority on granting or renewing an approval; 
::::(f) the determination and charging by local authorities of fees in respect of— 
:::::(i) applications for the approval of places;
:::::(ii) the renewal of approvals; and 
:::::(iii) the attendance by authorised registrars at places approved under the regulations; 
::::(g) the circumstances in which a local authority shall or may revoke or suspend an approval or vary any of the conditions imposed in relation to an approval; 
::::(h) the notification to the Registrar General of all approvals granted, renewed, revoked, suspended or varied; 
::::(i) the notification to the district registrar for the district in which a place approved under the regulations is situated of all approvals relating to such a place which are granted, renewed, revoked, suspended or varied; 
::::(j) the keeping by the Registrar General, district registrars and local authorities of registers of places approved under the regulations; and 
::::(k) the issue by the Registrar General of guidance supplementing the provision made by the regulations. 
:::(3) A person who has made an application under regulations made under subsection (1) above may appeal, by summary application, to the sheriff against any decision made by a local authority in relation to the application (including any decision to revoke or suspend, or to vary any of the conditions imposed in relation to, an approval granted in pursuance of that application).
:::(4) An appeal under subsection (3) above may be made only on one or more of the following grounds— 
::::(a) that the local authority’s decision was based on an error of law; 
::::(b) that the local authority’s decision was based on an incorrect material fact; 
::::(c) that the local authority has acted contrary to natural justice; or 
::::(d) that the local authority has acted unreasonably in the exercise of its discretion.
:::(5) An appeal under subsection (3) above shall not, unless on good cause shown, be considered by the sheriff unless lodged with the sheriff clerk within 28 days of the date on which the local authority made the decision being appealed against.
:::(6) In upholding an appeal under subsection (3) above, the sheriff may—&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dda51n02r0icrt8gogbtudu1rjmvfr7</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/72</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847732</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132608</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:29:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132608</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1662" sha1="iqrd0gz9tslkisfi6lvfw72gh7n0pv1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|176|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;column folio, the page form being but a trifle larger than that of the &quot;Voree Herald.&quot;

The &quot;Herald&quot; was devoted almost wholly to the defense of Strang's claims as leader of the Mormons. The &quot;Islander&quot; was conducted on the plan of a general newspaper, but devoted much space to the correspondence of traveling missionaries. A letter from George Miller mentions &quot;settling those saints in the south that were making lumber in Wisconsin for building the temple and Nauvoo House.&quot;

The conference minutes published in the papers show that following followers of Strang, many of whom had been high dignitaries at Nauvoo, were active at Voree and St. James:

Voree—Geo. J. Adams, Wm. Marks, Gilbert Watson, Daniel Carpenter, Ebenezer Page, D. F. Botsford, Ira J. Patten, Benjamin G. Wright, Alden Hale, Roswell Packard, S. P. Bacon, Anson W. Prindle, Dennis Chidester, Jehiel Savage, Jason W. Briggs, John E. Page, Moses Smith, Lester Brooks, Samuel Bennett, Samuel Graham, Wm. Savage, Samuel E. Hull, Phineas Wright, Isaac Pierce, Nathan Wagener, John Porter, E. Whitcomb, James Blakeslee, Lorenzo Dow Hickey, Royal Tucker, P. W. Stilwell.

St. James (In addition to those prominent at Voree—John Ursbroek, Hiram G. Hall, Geo. Brownson, Edw. Preston, Walter Ostrander, John S. Comstock, C. W. Appleton, James M. Greig, E. J. More.

Besides the newspapers, the principal publications from Strang's press were these:

1. &quot;Book of the Law of the Lord,&quot; claiming to be an inspired translation of plates discovered by Strang. First edition, 80 pages; second edition, 320 pages. Following is the wording on the title page:
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Esperanto Teacher.pdf/168</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847733</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132609</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:30:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;'''grain''', grajno, greno.  '''grammar''', gramatiko.  '''grape''', vinbero.  '''grass''', herbo.  '''grasshopper''', akrido.  '''grate''', fajrujo; raspi, skrapi.  '''grating''', krado.  '''gravity''', pezo.  '''gravy''', suko.  '''grease''', graso; ŝmiri.  '''great''', granda. '''-coat''', palto.  '''greedy''', avida, manĝegema.  '''green''', verda. '''-house''', varmejo.  '''greengage''', renklodo.  igrey, griza. hound, lepor- hundo. grill, kradrosti...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1959" sha1="id4dlv0uoq8000p6z396ygedkwm5rcy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|145}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''grain''', grajno, greno.

'''grammar''', gramatiko.

'''grape''', vinbero.

'''grass''', herbo.

'''grasshopper''', akrido.

'''grate''', fajrujo; raspi, skrapi.

'''grating''', krado.

'''gravity''', pezo.

'''gravy''', suko.

'''grease''', graso; ŝmiri.

'''great''', granda. '''-coat''', palto.

'''greedy''', avida, manĝegema.

'''green''', verda. '''-house''', varmejo.

'''greengage''', renklodo.

igrey, griza. hound, lepor-
hundo.
grill, kradrosti.
‘grin, grimaci, rikani.
lgrind, mueli ; pisti; grinci.
igristle, kartilago.
groan, gemi.
‘srocer, spicisto.
‘vrotesque, groteska.
¥rotto, groto.
lyround, tero. floor, teretago.
‘vroundsel, senecio.
‘roup, grup’o, -igi.
‘“wouse, tetro.
zrub, larvo.
guarantee, garantii.
Luard, gardi, (mili.) gvardio.
gudgeon, gobio.
zuess, diveni. konjekti.
yuide, gvidi.
‘suillotine, gilotino.
ae golfo.
ull, mevo. .
ullet, ezofago, gorgo, faiko,
um, gumo, dentokarno.
un, pafilo, kanono. powder,
pulvo,
ush, Spruci.
uttapercha, gutaperko.
utter, defluilo.

H.

habit, kutimo.

haddock, eglefino,

hair, haro, haroj ;
«dresser, frizisto.

hall, vestiblo, halo, salono,

halt, halti, lami. |

halter, kolbrido.

ham, Sinko,

hammer, martelo.

hand, mano. -ful, plenmano,
-shake, manpremo,

handkerchief, naztuko.

handle, tenilo, manpreni.

hang, pend‘i,-igi.

hanson, kabrioleto, fiakro.

happen, okazi.

harbour, haveno, {hardi.

harden, malmoligi, (health)

hare, Ie-poro.

harm, diiekti, malutili,

harness, jungi, jungaio.

harpoon, harpuno.

harrow, erpi, erpilo.

harvest, rikolto.

hasten, rapid’i, -igi.

hatch, kovi.

hatchet, hakilo.

haunch, kokso.

hawk, akcipitro ; kolporti.

hawthorn, kratago.

hay, fojno,

hazelnut, avelo.

heal, resanigi, cikatrigi.

health, sano. propose a—,
toasti.

heap, amas’o, -igi.

heart, koro, (cards) kero,
parkere,

hearth, kameno, fajrujo, hejmo.

heath, criko, erikejo, stepo.

heathen, idvlano.

heaven, Ciclo.

hararo.

by—,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>id4dlv0uoq8000p6z396ygedkwm5rcy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132619</id>
      <parentid>15132609</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:39:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132619</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2179" sha1="hkioiimiby8cje8ynmrvj02fahyn3f6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|145}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''grain''', grajno, greno.

'''grammar''', gramatiko.

'''grape''', vinbero.

'''grass''', herbo.

'''grasshopper''', akrido.

'''grate''', fajrujo; raspi, skrapi.

'''grating''', krado.

'''gravity''', pezo.

'''gravy''', suko.

'''grease''', graso; ŝmiri.

'''great''', granda. '''-coat''', palto.

'''greedy''', avida, manĝegema.

'''green''', verda. '''-house''', varmejo.

'''greengage''', renklodo.

'''grey''', griza. '''-hound''', leporhundo.

'''grill''', kradrosti.

'''grin''', grimaci, rikani.

'''grind''', mueli; pisti; grinci.

'''gristle''', kartilago.

'''groan''', ĝemi.

'''grocer''', spicisto.

'''grotesque''', groteska.

'''grotto''', groto.

'''ground''', tero. '''-floor''', teretaĝo.

'''groundsel''', senecio.

'''group''', grup’o, -igi.

'''grouse''', tetro.

'''grub''', larvo.

'''guarantee''', garantii.

'''guard''', gardi, (''mili''.) gvardio.

'''gudgeon''', gobio.

'''guess''', diveni. konjekti.

'''guide''', gvidi.

'''guillotine''', gilotino.

'''gulf''', golfo.

'''gull''', mevo.

'''gullet''', ezofago, gorĝo, faǔko,

'''gum''', gumo, dentokarno.

'''gun''', pafilo, kanono. '''-powder''', pulvo.

'''gush''', ŝpruci.

'''guttapercha''', gutaperko.

'''gutter''', defluilo.

{{c|'''H'''}}

'''habit''', kutimo.

haddock, eglefino,

hair, haro, haroj ;
«dresser, frizisto.

hall, vestiblo, halo, salono,

halt, halti, lami. |

halter, kolbrido.

ham, Sinko,

hammer, martelo.

hand, mano. -ful, plenmano,
-shake, manpremo,

handkerchief, naztuko.

handle, tenilo, manpreni.

hang, pend‘i,-igi.

hanson, kabrioleto, fiakro.

happen, okazi.

harbour, haveno, {hardi.

harden, malmoligi, (health)

hare, Ie-poro.

harm, diiekti, malutili,

harness, jungi, jungaio.

harpoon, harpuno.

harrow, erpi, erpilo.

harvest, rikolto.

hasten, rapid’i, -igi.

hatch, kovi.

hatchet, hakilo.

haunch, kokso.

hawk, akcipitro ; kolporti.

hawthorn, kratago.

hay, fojno,

hazelnut, avelo.

heal, resanigi, cikatrigi.

health, sano. propose a—,
toasti.

heap, amas’o, -igi.

heart, koro, (cards) kero,
parkere,

hearth, kameno, fajrujo, hejmo.

heath, criko, erikejo, stepo.

heathen, idvlano.

heaven, Ciclo.

hararo.

by—,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hkioiimiby8cje8ynmrvj02fahyn3f6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132625</id>
      <parentid>15132619</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:45:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132625</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2241" sha1="ptlacxgfj7jhl7foi5sgu7jsy4rt8xo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|145}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''grain''', grajno, greno.

'''grammar''', gramatiko.

'''grape''', vinbero.

'''grass''', herbo.

'''grasshopper''', akrido.

'''grate''', fajrujo; raspi, skrapi.

'''grating''', krado.

'''gravity''', pezo.

'''gravy''', suko.

'''grease''', graso; ŝmiri.

'''great''', granda. '''-coat''', palto.

'''greedy''', avida, manĝegema.

'''green''', verda. '''-house''', varmejo.

'''greengage''', renklodo.

'''grey''', griza. '''-hound''', leporhundo.

'''grill''', kradrosti.

'''grin''', grimaci, rikani.

'''grind''', mueli; pisti; grinci.

'''gristle''', kartilago.

'''groan''', ĝemi.

'''grocer''', spicisto.

'''grotesque''', groteska.

'''grotto''', groto.

'''ground''', tero. '''-floor''', teretaĝo.

'''groundsel''', senecio.

'''group''', grup’o, -igi.

'''grouse''', tetro.

'''grub''', larvo.

'''guarantee''', garantii.

'''guard''', gardi, (''mili''.) gvardio.

'''gudgeon''', gobio.

'''guess''', diveni. konjekti.

'''guide''', gvidi.

'''guillotine''', gilotino.

'''gulf''', golfo.

'''gull''', mevo.

'''gullet''', ezofago, gorĝo, faǔko,

'''gum''', gumo, dentokarno.

'''gun''', pafilo, kanono. '''-powder''', pulvo.

'''gush''', ŝpruci.

'''guttapercha''', gutaperko.

'''gutter''', defluilo.

{{c|'''H'''}}

'''habit''', kutimo.

'''haddock''', eglefino.

'''hair''', haro, haroj; hararo. '''-dresser''', frizisto.

'''hall''', vestiblo, halo, salono,

'''halt''', halti, lami.

'''halter''', kolbrido.

'''ham''', ŝinko,

'''hammer''', martelo.

'''hand''', mano. '''-ful''', plenmano, '''-shake''', manpremo.

handkerchief, naztuko.

handle, tenilo, manpreni.

hang, pend‘i,-igi.

hanson, kabrioleto, fiakro.

happen, okazi.

harbour, haveno, {hardi.

harden, malmoligi, (health)

hare, Ie-poro.

harm, diiekti, malutili,

harness, jungi, jungaio.

harpoon, harpuno.

harrow, erpi, erpilo.

harvest, rikolto.

hasten, rapid’i, -igi.

hatch, kovi.

hatchet, hakilo.

haunch, kokso.

hawk, akcipitro ; kolporti.

hawthorn, kratago.

hay, fojno,

hazelnut, avelo.

heal, resanigi, cikatrigi.

health, sano. propose a—,
toasti.

heap, amas’o, -igi.

heart, koro, (cards) kero,
parkere,

hearth, kameno, fajrujo, hejmo.

heath, criko, erikejo, stepo.

heathen, idvlano.

heaven, Ciclo.

by—,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ptlacxgfj7jhl7foi5sgu7jsy4rt8xo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132686</id>
      <parentid>15132625</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:22:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132686</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2297" sha1="p5htqhufg1iibveda3e6h9x5u8jw7wv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|145}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''grain''', grajno, greno.

'''grammar''', gramatiko.

'''grape''', vinbero.

'''grass''', herbo.

'''grasshopper''', akrido.

'''grate''', fajrujo; raspi, skrapi.

'''grating''', krado.

'''gravity''', pezo.

'''gravy''', suko.

'''grease''', graso; ŝmiri.

'''great''', granda. '''-coat''', palto.

'''greedy''', avida, manĝegema.

'''green''', verda. '''-house''', varmejo.

'''greengage''', renklodo.

'''grey''', griza. '''-hound''', leporhundo.

'''grill''', kradrosti.

'''grin''', grimaci, rikani.

'''grind''', mueli; pisti; grinci.

'''gristle''', kartilago.

'''groan''', ĝemi.

'''grocer''', spicisto.

'''grotesque''', groteska.

'''grotto''', groto.

'''ground''', tero. '''-floor''', teretaĝo.

'''groundsel''', senecio.

'''group''', grup’o, -igi.

'''grouse''', tetro.

'''grub''', larvo.

'''guarantee''', garantii.

'''guard''', gardi, (''mili''.) gvardio.

'''gudgeon''', gobio.

'''guess''', diveni. konjekti.

'''guide''', gvidi.

'''guillotine''', gilotino.

'''gulf''', golfo.

'''gull''', mevo.

'''gullet''', ezofago, gorĝo, faǔko,

'''gum''', gumo, dentokarno.

'''gun''', pafilo, kanono. '''-powder''', pulvo.

'''gush''', ŝpruci.

'''guttapercha''', gutaperko.

'''gutter''', defluilo.

{{c|'''H'''}}

'''habit''', kutimo.

'''haddock''', eglefino.

'''hair''', haro, haroj; hararo. '''-dresser''', frizisto.

'''hall''', vestiblo, halo, salono,

'''halt''', halti, lami.

'''halter''', kolbrido.

'''ham''', ŝinko,

'''hammer''', martelo.

'''hand''', mano. '''-ful''', plenmano, '''-shake''', manpremo.

'''handkerchief''', naztuko.

'''handle''', tenilo, manpreni.

'''hang''', pend‘i,-igi.

'''hansom''', kabrioleto, fiakro.

'''happen''', okazi.

'''harbour''', haveno.

'''harden''', malmoligi, (''health'') hardi.

'''hare''', leporo.

'''harm''', difekti, malutili,

harness, jungi, jungaio.

harpoon, harpuno.

harrow, erpi, erpilo.

harvest, rikolto.

hasten, rapid’i, -igi.

hatch, kovi.

hatchet, hakilo.

haunch, kokso.

hawk, akcipitro ; kolporti.

hawthorn, kratago.

hay, fojno,

hazelnut, avelo.

heal, resanigi, cikatrigi.

health, sano. propose a—,
toasti.

heap, amas’o, -igi.

heart, koro, (cards) kero,
parkere,

hearth, kameno, fajrujo, hejmo.

heath, criko, erikejo, stepo.

heathen, idvlano.

heaven, Ciclo.

by—,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>p5htqhufg1iibveda3e6h9x5u8jw7wv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132696</id>
      <parentid>15132686</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:28:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15132696</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2410" sha1="2t967cjqislodccv5dz28z7ny00e40v" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|145}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''grain''', grajno, greno.

'''grammar''', gramatiko.

'''grape''', vinbero.

'''grass''', herbo.

'''grasshopper''', akrido.

'''grate''', fajrujo; raspi, skrapi.

'''grating''', krado.

'''gravity''', pezo.

'''gravy''', suko.

'''grease''', graso; ŝmiri.

'''great''', granda. '''-coat''', palto.

'''greedy''', avida, manĝegema.

'''green''', verda. '''-house''', varmejo.

'''greengage''', renklodo.

'''grey''', griza. '''-hound''', leporhundo.

'''grill''', kradrosti.

'''grin''', grimaci, rikani.

'''grind''', mueli; pisti; grinci.

'''gristle''', kartilago.

'''groan''', ĝemi.

'''grocer''', spicisto.

'''grotesque''', groteska.

'''grotto''', groto.

'''ground''', tero. '''-floor''', teretaĝo.

'''groundsel''', senecio.

'''group''', grup’o, -igi.

'''grouse''', tetro.

'''grub''', larvo.

'''guarantee''', garantii.

'''guard''', gardi, (''mili''.) gvardio.

'''gudgeon''', gobio.

'''guess''', diveni. konjekti.

'''guide''', gvidi.

'''guillotine''', gilotino.

'''gulf''', golfo.

'''gull''', mevo.

'''gullet''', ezofago, gorĝo, faǔko,

'''gum''', gumo, dentokarno.

'''gun''', pafilo, kanono. '''-powder''', pulvo.

'''gush''', ŝpruci.

'''guttapercha''', gutaperko.

'''gutter''', defluilo.

{{c|'''H'''}}

'''habit''', kutimo.

'''haddock''', eglefino.

'''hair''', haro, haroj; hararo. '''-dresser''', frizisto.

'''hall''', vestiblo, halo, salono,

'''halt''', halti, lami.

'''halter''', kolbrido.

'''ham''', ŝinko,

'''hammer''', martelo.

'''hand''', mano. '''-ful''', plenmano, '''-shake''', manpremo.

'''handkerchief''', naztuko.

'''handle''', tenilo, manpreni.

'''hang''', pend‘i,-igi.

'''hansom''', kabrioleto, fiakro.

'''happen''', okazi.

'''harbour''', haveno.

'''harden''', malmoligi, (''health'') hardi.

'''hare''', leporo.

'''harm''', difekti, malutili,

'''harness''', jungi, jungaĵo.

'''harpoon''', harpuno.

'''harrow''', erpi, erpilo.

'''harvest''', rikolto.

'''hasten''', rapid’i, -igi.

'''hatch''', kovi.

'''hatchet''', hakilo.

'''haunch''', kokso.

'''hawk''', akcipitro ; kolporti.

'''hawthorn''', kratago.

'''hay''', fojno,

'''hazelnut''', avelo.

'''heal''', resanigi, cikatriĝi.

'''health''', sano. '''propose a—''', toasti.

'''heap''', amas’o, -igi.

'''heart''', koro, (''cards'') kero, '''by—''', parkere,

hearth, kameno, fajrujo, hejmo.

heath, criko, erikejo, stepo.

heathen, idvlano.

heaven, Ciclo.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>2t967cjqislodccv5dz28z7ny00e40v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132706</id>
      <parentid>15132696</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:32:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132706</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2443" sha1="tt6z8su5uxu7bfw2wqg577n9lk2v43d" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|145}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''grain''', grajno, greno.

'''grammar''', gramatiko.

'''grape''', vinbero.

'''grass''', herbo.

'''grasshopper''', akrido.

'''grate''', fajrujo; raspi, skrapi.

'''grating''', krado.

'''gravity''', pezo.

'''gravy''', suko.

'''grease''', graso; ŝmiri.

'''great''', granda. '''-coat''', palto.

'''greedy''', avida, manĝegema.

'''green''', verda. '''-house''', varmejo.

'''greengage''', renklodo.

'''grey''', griza. '''-hound''', leporhundo.

'''grill''', kradrosti.

'''grin''', grimaci, rikani.

'''grind''', mueli; pisti; grinci.

'''gristle''', kartilago.

'''groan''', ĝemi.

'''grocer''', spicisto.

'''grotesque''', groteska.

'''grotto''', groto.

'''ground''', tero. '''-floor''', teretaĝo.

'''groundsel''', senecio.

'''group''', grup’o, -igi.

'''grouse''', tetro.

'''grub''', larvo.

'''guarantee''', garantii.

'''guard''', gardi, (''mili''.) gvardio.

'''gudgeon''', gobio.

'''guess''', diveni. konjekti.

'''guide''', gvidi.

'''guillotine''', gilotino.

'''gulf''', golfo.

'''gull''', mevo.

'''gullet''', ezofago, gorĝo, faǔko,

'''gum''', gumo, dentokarno.

'''gun''', pafilo, kanono. '''-powder''', pulvo.

'''gush''', ŝpruci.

'''guttapercha''', gutaperko.

'''gutter''', defluilo.

{{c|'''H'''}}

'''habit''', kutimo.

'''haddock''', eglefino.

'''hair''', haro, haroj; hararo. '''-dresser''', frizisto.

'''hall''', vestiblo, halo, salono,

'''halt''', halti, lami.

'''halter''', kolbrido.

'''ham''', ŝinko,

'''hammer''', martelo.

'''hand''', mano. '''-ful''', plenmano, '''-shake''', manpremo.

'''handkerchief''', naztuko.

'''handle''', tenilo, manpreni.

'''hang''', pend‘i,-igi.

'''hansom''', kabrioleto, fiakro.

'''happen''', okazi.

'''harbour''', haveno.

'''harden''', malmoligi, (''health'') hardi.

'''hare''', leporo.

'''harm''', difekti, malutili,

'''harness''', jungi, jungaĵo.

'''harpoon''', harpuno.

'''harrow''', erpi, erpilo.

'''harvest''', rikolto.

'''hasten''', rapid’i, -igi.

'''hatch''', kovi.

'''hatchet''', hakilo.

'''haunch''', kokso.

'''hawk''', akcipitro ; kolporti.

'''hawthorn''', kratago.

'''hay''', fojno,

'''hazelnut''', avelo.

'''heal''', resanigi, cikatriĝi.

'''health''', sano. '''propose a—''', toasti.

'''heap''', amas’o, -igi.

'''heart''', koro, (''cards'') kero, '''by—''', parkore.

'''hearth''', kameno, fajrujo, hejmo.

'''heath''', eriko, erikejo, stepo.

'''heathen''', idolano.

'''heaven''', ĉielo.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tt6z8su5uxu7bfw2wqg577n9lk2v43d</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Marriage (Scotland) Act 2002 (ASP 2002-8 qp).pdf/3</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847734</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132611</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:31:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Penguin1737</username>
        <id>3062038</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132611</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1989" sha1="lnkxuo6vi3rqoqyi7scwjos9qr1m2ch" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Penguin1737&quot; /&gt;{{rh|''Marriage (Scotland) Act 2002 (asp 8)''||3}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;::::(a) remit the case with the reasons for the sheriff’s decision to the local authority for reconsideration by the local authority of its decision; or 
::::(b) reverse or modify the local authority’s decision. 
:::(7) A party to an appeal under subsection (3) above may appeal, on a point of law only, against the decision of the sheriff to the Court of Session within 28 days of the date of that decision.
:::(8) Regulations under subsection (1) above may make different provision for different cases or circumstances.
:::(9) The power to make regulations under subsection (1) above shall be exercisable by statutory instrument; and, subject to subsection (10) below, any such statutory instrument shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of the Scottish Parliament.
:::(10) A statutory instrument containing the first regulations under subsection (1) above shall not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, the Scottish Parliament.”. 
:{{Anchor|1.4}}(4) In section 24 (offences), in subsection (1)— 
::{{Anchor|1.4.a}}(a) the word “or”, where it occurs immediately after paragraph (d), is repealed; and 
::{{Anchor|1.4.b}}(b) after paragraph (e), there shall be inserted “; or 
:::(f) being an authorised registrar, solemnises a marriage in a place otherwise than in accordance with section 18(1) of this Act”.

{{Anchor|2.0}}'''2{{gap}}Short title and commencement'''
:{{Anchor|2.1}}(1) This Act may be cited as the Marriage (Scotland) Act 2002.
:{{Anchor|2.2}}(2) Section 1 of this Act shall come into force on such day as the Scottish Ministers may by order made by statutory instrument appoint.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|32.5em|height=3px|align=right}}
{{float right|{{smaller|© Crown copyright 2002&lt;br&gt;Printed in the UK by The Stationery Office Limited&lt;br&gt;under the authority and superintendence of Carol Tullo, the Queen’s Printer for Scotland}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lnkxuo6vi3rqoqyi7scwjos9qr1m2ch</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/71</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847735</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132612</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:31:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132612</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1966" sha1="4z9qshn7uv0q4t2ve17zfaqmnv0vxax" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|175|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;mons, copies of the books, pamphlets and newspapers published by King Strang are excessively scarce. Of the &quot;Book of the Law of the Lord,&quot; Strang's most important book, there are probably not to exceed a dozen copies in existence. Chas. J. Strang, of Lansing; L. D. Hickey, of Coldwater, Mich.; Wingfield Watson, of Spring Prairie, Wis., and the writer each possess one. A copy is to be found in each of following libraries: Congressional, Washington, D. C.; State Library of Michigan, Lansing; Wisconsin Historical Society's Library, Madison.

Not one complete file of the &quot;Northern Islander&quot; or &quot;Voree Herold&quot; is known to be in existence. The latter comprised five volumes, issued the first year as a monthly and afterwards weekly. Its name was changed subsequently to &quot;Gospel Herald&quot; and &quot;Zion's Reveille.&quot; A partial set is owned by the Wisconsin Historical Society, and a few scattering copies are owned respectively by Chas. J. Strang and the writer. The paper was published at Voree, Wis., from 1846 to 1850. It was about the size of an ordinary sheet of letter paper.

&quot;The Northern Islander&quot; was published at irregular intervals, especially after the close of navigation, when Beaver Island was cut off from the rest of the world. From May, 1856, until the assassination of the King two months later, the royal organ was. printed as a small daily—a marvel of journalistic enterprise that surprised passengers on the boats that entered the harbor of St. James. Of the papers published at Beaver Island, Chas. J. Strang possesses but three copies, one of the weekly issues and two of the daily. Wingfield Watson, of Spring Prairie, Wis., has seventy-two of the ninety numbers of the &quot;Islander:&quot; his collection is believed to be the nearest to a complete file in existence. He declines to sell at any price.

The &quot;Weekly Islander&quot; was a newspaper of four pages, five columns to the page. The &quot;Daily Islander&quot; was a four-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/844</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847736</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132614</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:34:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
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      <text bytes="2822" sha1="ac32xt67iskcziqx7akhck7yg8iycj3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh|810|WORKS OF GUY DE MAUPASSANT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;that I should get them to come into my boat, for at this time I was fond of 
boating. I would then bring them to the Île des Fleurs, where the three of us would dine. I had made it my business 
to be present, in order the better to enjoy my triumph, and the usher, consenting to my arrangement, proved clearly, 
in fact, that he had lost his head by thus risking his post. 

When we arrived at the ferry where my boat had been moored since morning, I saw in the grass, or rather above 
the tall weeds of the bank, an enormous red parasol, resembling a monstrous wild 
poppy. Under the parasol waited the little laundress in her Sunday clothes. I 
was surprised. She was really nice-looking, though pale, and graceful, though with a suburban gracefulness. 

Père Piquedent raised his hat and bowed. She put out her hand toward him and they stared at one another 
without uttering a word. Then they stepped into my boat and I took the oars. 

They were seated side by side on the seat near the stern. The usher was the first to speak: 

&quot;This is nice weather for a row in a boat.&quot; 

She murmured: &quot;Oh! yes.&quot; 

She drew her hand through the current, skimming the water with her 
fingers, which raised up a thin transparent little stream like a sheet of glass. 
It made a light sound, a gentle ripple, as the boat moved along. 

When they were in the restaurant, she took it on herself to speak and 
order dinner — fried fish, a chicken, and salad; then, she led us on toward the isle which she knew perfectly 

After this, she was gay, romping, and even rather mocking. 

Up to the dessert, no question of love arose. I had treated them, to 
champagne and Père Piquedent was tipsy. Herself slightly elevated, she called out to him: 

&quot;Moiisieur Piquenez.&quot; 

He said all of a sudden: 

&quot;Mademoiselle, Monsieur Raoul has communicated my sentiments to you.&quot; 

She became as serious as a judge: 

&quot;Yes, Monsieur.&quot; 

&quot;Are you going to give any answer?&quot; 

&quot;We never reply to these questions!&quot; 

He panted with emotion, and went on: 

&quot;After all, a day will come when I may make you like me.&quot; 

She smiled: &quot;You big fool! You are very nice.&quot; 

&quot;In short, Mademoiselle, do you think that, later on, we might — &quot; 

She hesitated a second; then in a trembling voice she said: 

&quot;Is it in order to marry me you say that? For never otherwise, you know.&quot; 

&quot;Yes, Mademoiselle!&quot; 

&quot;Well, that's all right. Monsieur Piquedent!&quot; 

It is thus that these two silly creatures promised marriage to each other 
through the wiles of a reckless school-boy. But I did not believe that it was 
serious, nor indeed did they themselves, perhaps. 

On her part there was a certain feeling of hesitation: 

&quot;You know, I have nothing — not four sous.&quot; 

He stammered, for he was as drunk as Silenus: 
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/52</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847737</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132616</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:36:48Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Eievie</username>
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      <text bytes="2029" sha1="jejkse7r7m3e0sbvgu26630itqqsuqa" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|156|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;them to do so. They had put out into the lake but a short time. when there came in hot haste to the door six or seven of the guard, armed with guns and demanding if I had seen any Gentiles, or if I had given them any comfort or aid. I deemed it prudent to buy safety at the expense of veracity, and they left vowing that if they caught the men, whose boat they had descried from a distance as it was coming to shore, they would make short work of the intruders.

I married a Mormon young woman, and I may say I have never regretted the step. All of her family were Mormons, and they and my father's family (all Mormons except myself) were among those who did not fall into polygamous ways on the island. Yes, we were married under rather unusual circumstances, and I got the best of the King, the deputy King (vice King), the King's council, and all the elders, too. (Mr. Hill chuckled as the narration called up slumbering recollections.) Yes, I'll tell you how it was, and it's the truth, too. The Mormons were always willing to marry a Gentile woman to a Mormon man, figuring that they could bring enough influence to bear on the woman to attach her and her children to the church. But when it came to uniting a Gentile man with a Mormon girl, they were inexorable in their refusal. We knew that, of course, and Cecelia (that's my wife's name) urged me to be baptized and thus overcome the difficulty.

&quot;Cecelia,&quot; said I, &quot;I think the world of you, but a Mormon I'll never consent to become, and that doesn't mean, either, that we won't be married. I'll find some other way.&quot;

Now, although I was a Gentile, and one whom the ruling powers were only biding their time to get out of the way, I had a good many friends among the Mormons. So I bided my time. I may mention here that Strang, with his usual shrewdness, had, in order to carry out his schemes under forms of law, brought about the organization of the County of Emmet, to include Beaver Island, and thus had control of the whole&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Marriage (Scotland) Act 2002</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847738</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132617</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:37:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Penguin1737</username>
        <id>3062038</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Added ASP 2002-8</comment>
      <origin>15132617</origin>
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      <text bytes="572" sha1="qvka9sbt5kjupxluqq342djo1z1pr0g" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = Marriage (Scotland) Act 2002
 | author      = Scottish Parliament | author-nolink = true
 | translator  = 
 | section     = 
 | previous    = 
 | next        = 
 | year        = 2002 | noyear = yes
 | notes       = '''Date of Commencement:''' 25 April 2002 ([[The Marriage (Scotland) Act 2002 (Commencement) Order 2002|S.S.I 2002/184]])&lt;br&gt;{{UK Legislation link}}
 | portal      = Acts of the Scottish Parliament
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Marriage (Scotland) Act 2002 (ASP 2002-8 qp).pdf&quot; from=&quot;1&quot;/&gt;

{{OGL3}}
[[Category:Acts of the Scottish Parliament]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/53</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847739</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132618</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:39:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
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      <text bytes="1915" sha1="r9dov7tuteqkqrqacnqd9b555eok81w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|157|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;machinery of county government. Thus he could elect a Mormon sheriff, and arrest people as he chose; could try his prisoners before a Mormon jury, and a Mormon judge would sentence them according to Mormon law. So every one whom he didn't like became an outlaw, of course, for he had no difficulty in trumping up charges. Strang also got himself elected as a member of the legislature, where he could get local laws passed for Beaver Island. When he went to Lansing as a member of the legislature, he left his kingdom in charge of the president of his council. I waited till Strang had gone to Lansing for the winter, and then I proceeded to put my plans into execution. It had been suspected, despite our precautions, that Cecelia and myself were attached to each other, so I went to one of the preachers whom I regarded as friendly—a man. named Aldrich—and asked him to marry us. He looked startled and said he wouldn't think of such a thing. Finally he said he would if I would consent to be baptized. I flatly declined this proposition. Then he said:

&quot;I'll go and see Bacon,&quot; (he was the president of the council and his word was law when Strang was away). &quot;I think I can induce him to give his consent.&quot;

Aldrich jumped into his sleigh and drove to the King's house. He was gone some time, and when he came back I saw at once that his mission had been fruitless. Bacon had positively refused to consent to the marriage.

It was evident that I must get at it in another way. There was another Mormon elder and preacher—one Savage—whose friendship I had won, and I went to him. I told him the circumstances and asked him whether he would tie the knot for us.

&quot;It would be ruin to me,&quot; said he.

Now, I knew that for some time Savage had been disaffected, so I took the cue from that and worked at him till I persuaded him to perform the ceremony secretly. You may&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/54</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847740</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132620</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:41:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
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      <text bytes="2052" sha1="fjbufluqos6msfptmc5u9wv4wx235bt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|158|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;be sure that this was no easy matter, either, and I swore by all that was holy that under no circumstances would I betray him as long as there was danger to him in so doing. So after he had given his word, we planned how we would do it.

The young people of the colony had arranged for a party to be given at my father's house on a certain evening, and we arranged that this circumstance should be taken advantage of to consummate our plans. You see we had to plan, for we were watched. It was a cold, clear starlight night. I remember it well, although it was more than fifty years ago. Within the house all was gaiety and noise—the sound of the fiddle, the patter of the dancers' shoes and the laughter of the merry young people. By a prearrangement, Cecelia and two of our friends who were in the secret repaired to a room up-stairs, while I went outdoors. In the shadow of a woodpile near by Elder Savage was awaiting my signal. He cautiously made his way to the house, went up by a rear stairway, and I followed. In that up-stairs room, while below there was playing and dancing and laughter, Cecelia and I were united in marriage. Not a member of my family or of my wife's family was present or knew anything about it. The reason for keeping them ignorant I'll tell you later. Only my wife and I, the preacher and our two witnesses—friends whom we trusted implicitly, and who, besides, would keep still to save themselves from the vengeance of the Church, if for no other reason, were present. The ceremony over, we went down one at a time without exciting comment, the elder making his exit unobserved, and entering the house an hour later as if he had just arrived to take part in the festival of the young people.

That is how we were secretly married. To the neighbors we behaved just as before. Cecelia received the attentions of other young men, and I was devoted to two or three other women. But there was one present whom we couldn't hoodwink. She was afterwards one of Strang's wives. She was a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/55</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847741</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132622</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:42:49Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Eievie</username>
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      <text bytes="1900" sha1="m9qpwkikxp2xxys1vpyed4tw1338qjk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|159|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;remarkably clever young woman, if she did play me a mean trick. This young woman was well educated. On one occasion when Strang went east on a proselyting tour, this young woman accompanied him as his secretary, dressed as a young man. They visited Philadelphia, New York and other large cities, and the deception of her sex was never discovered. Well, this young woman acted as a spy on us, and by eavesdropping learned the facts about our marriage. She revealed it all to the King's men, and Savage was summoned to appear. He came to me in great alarm.

&quot;We are lost. They know everything,&quot; said he. &quot;I am a ruined man.&quot;

Now, I had sworn when he promised to perform the secret ceremony that I would protect him at all hazards. So I set my brains to work and I unfolded a plan to him for getting out of the scrape. I had heard that King Strang had on one occasion secretly baptized a Gentile, so I said to Savage: &quot;Tell them that you secretly baptized me before you performed the marriage ceremony, and if they won't accept that sort of a ceremony as valid, plead as justification that you followed the high example set by Strang.&quot;

The trial was a long drawn out affair. My parents were summoned. They truthfully said that they were as much surprised as anybody to hear that we were a married couple, not having been present or even apprised as to the ceremony. My brother gave the same testimony, which let them out from punishment. Until Elder Savage's turn came, the prosecution rested on the eavesdropping information obtained by Strang's future wife.

When it came to Savage's turn, he readily admitted having performed the marriage rites, and the drawn brows and black looks of the councillors were not cheerful premonitions of his fate. When he went on to tell, however, that he had not done so until he had baptized me a Mormon, there was a murmur of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/843</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847742</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132623</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:43:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="2760" sha1="b5w4n7hgm2swvllqjrvm1lyytmi38be" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||THE QUESTION OF LATIN|809}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;end he believed me, and sent her ardent and earnest kisses. 

Now, it happened that, one morning, on my way to the boarding-school, I 
really came across her. I accosted her without hesitation, as if I had known her for the last ten years. 

&quot;Good day, Mademoiselle. Are you quite well?&quot; 

&quot;Very well, Monsieur, thank you.&quot; 

&quot;Will you have a cigarette?&quot; 

&quot;Oh! not in the street.&quot; 

&quot;You can smoke it at home.&quot; 

&quot;In that case, I will.&quot; 

&quot;Let me tell you, Mademoiselle, there's something you don't know.&quot; 

&quot;What is that, Monsieur?&quot; 

&quot;The old gentleman — my old professor, I mean — &quot; 

&quot;Père Piquedent.&quot; 

&quot;Yes, Père Piquedent. So you know his name?' 

&quot;Faith, I do! What of that?&quot; 

&quot;Well, he is in love with you!&quot; 

She burst out laughing like a crazy woman and exclaimed: 

&quot;This is only humbug!&quot; 

&quot;Oh! no, 'tis no humbug! He keeps talking of you all the time he is giving lessons. I bet that he'll marry you!&quot; 

She ceased laughing. The idea of marriage makes every girl serious. Then, she repeated, with an incredulous air: 

&quot;This is humbug!&quot; 

&quot;I swear to you 'tis true.&quot; 

She picked up her basket which she had laid down at her feet. 

&quot;Well, we'll see,&quot; she said. And she went away. 

Presently, when I had reached the boarding-school, I took Père Piquedent aside, and said: 

&quot;You must write to her: she is mad about you.&quot; 

And he wrote a long letter of a soft and affectionate character full of phrases and circumlocutions, metaphors and similes, philosophy and academic gallantry; and I took on myself the responsibility of delivering it to the young woman. 

She read it with gravity, with emotion; then, she murmured: 

&quot;How well he writes! It is easy to see he has got education! Does he really mean to marry me?&quot; 

I replied intrepidly: &quot;Faith, he has lost his head about you!&quot; 

&quot;Then he must invite me to dinner on Sunday at the Île des Fleurs.&quot; 

I promised that she would be invited. 

Père Piquedent was much touched by everything I told him about her. 

I added: 

&quot;She loves you, Monsieur Piquedent, and I believe her to be a decent girl. 
It is not right to seduce her and then abandon her.&quot; 

He replied in a firm tone: 

&quot;I hope I, too, am a decent man, my friend.&quot; 

I confess I had at the time no plan. I was playing a practical joke, a school-boy's practical joke, nothing more. I had been aware of the simplicity of the old usher, his innocence, and his weakness. I amused myself without asking myself how it would turn out. I was eighteen, and had been for a long time looked upon at the lycée as a knowing practical joker. 

So, it was agreed that Père Piquedent and I should set out in a hackney-coach 
for the ferry of Queue de Vache, thai we should there pick up Angèle, and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/56</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847743</id>
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      <id>15132624</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:43:41Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1923" sha1="7lzpv5ppwbwgze82a59ngoyj0thhcrd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|160|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;astonishment. Savage added that in doing so he had not erred, for he had but followed the example of the head of the community, who, of course, could do no wrong.

This was a poser for those who wanted to condemn Savage to the rigors of the Mormon canon. Though unconvinced, they could hardly convict Savage for doing what their own high priest had done; so Savage escaped punishment. He hadn't strictly told the truth, nor had I, but when men's lives. and property are the issue, one doesn't view moral questions from the same standpoint as ordinarily.

But Savage did not feel safe. He secretly prepared for early departure, and early in the spring, with a few followers. who were as discontented as himself with Mormon rule as expounded on Beaver Island, stole away in Mackinac boats. The refugees went to the main shore, building cabins on the site of the town of Charlevoix. Strang was not disposed to permit his prey to escape so easily. His Mormon sheriff summoned a Mormon posse and went after the seceders on pretext of summoning them as jurors. Thus, under cover of law, he could get his subject back to the island, where he could do whatever his vindictive spirit might suggest. Savage, of course, saw through the artifice. When the sheriff's posse appeared at his log hut with the warrant, Savage tore the paper into shreds, threw them under his feet and stamped on the fragments. The Mormon officers then tried to arrest him for resisting their lawful authority. Savage seized his gun, his companions hurried to his rescue with their weapons, and the Mormon officers turned tail and ran. A pursuing volley wounded one of them in the wrist and another in the groin. They managed to put out in their boat, pursued by their now thoroughly aroused assailants, but the opportune appearance of a vessel enabled them to escape by appealing to her captain for protection.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/57</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15132626</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:45:19Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1986" sha1="hf6uzqygatzslisxxpw0zo62kzwgndd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|161|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;It was evident to Savage that to remain on the mainland opposite the island whence he had fled was to invite annihilation, for he knew Strang would never rest till he had hunted him down. The refugees placed their belonging and families aboard the steamer &quot;Little Columbia,&quot; from Buffalo to Green Bay, and arranged to meet the boat beyond Beaver Island, after her departure from St. James. As usual, the steamer put into the harbor at St. James, and the Mormons crowded aboard. The families of the refugees kept close to their cabins and remained unobserved. All went well till one of the Mormons noticed the names on some of the boxes. At once there was great commotion, and the seizure of the vessel was ordered. The captain's promptness in getting out of the harbor prevented this.

In the meantime the male contingent had sailed around to the southern end of the island, and made a stop at my place. They were overjoyed to see me, and we told each other what had happened since last we had met. I proposed to the men a plan for the overthrow of the kingdom. If they hadn't lacked the nerve, the career of the prophet-king and his reign would have been cut short a few years sooner than it was. Near by in the woods were some seven or eight Mormons of the worst stripe engaged in cutting timber. I proposed that we sally forth, pick our men, surprise them and then shoot them down. As fast as others came we could serve them the same way, and if a large force should arrive, we could barricade ourselves in the house and pick off the men at leisure. I knew there were disaffected men in the community who would lead an uprising if they could get a good chance. I believed it practicable to thus overthrow the kingdom. But they wouldn't take the risk. They departed to join their families, and succeeded in doing so. On Washington Island, at the mouth of Green Bay, they made their homes, and some of their descendants live there to-day.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:University of St. Andrews (Postgraduate Medical Degrees) Act 2002 (ASP 2002-15 qp).pdf/1</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847745</id>
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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|[[File:Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom (Scotland) B&amp;W.png|150px]]}}

{{Center|{{xx-larger|University of St. Andrews (Postgraduate Medical Degrees) Act 2002}}}}  
{{Center|{{larger|'''2002 asp 15'''}}}}

'''The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 26th June 2002 and received Royal Assent on 30th July 2002'''

An Act of the Scottish Parliament to permit the University of St. Andrews to grant postgraduate research degrees in medicine to qualified medical practitioners. 

{{Anchor|1.0}}'''1{{gap}}Power to grant postgraduate research degrees in medicine'''
:{{Anchor|1.1}}(1) The University of St. Andrews may hold examinations and award degrees for research in medicine by persons to whom this section applies, notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 17 of Schedule 6 to the [[Universities (Scotland) Act 1966]] (c.13) (abolition of qualifying examinations and degrees in medicine etc. in the University of St. Andrews).
:{{Anchor|1.2}}(2) This section applies to persons who— 
::{{Anchor|1.2.a}}(a) are registered, or are entitled to be registered, under section 3 of the [[Medical Act 1983]] (c.54) as fully registered medical practitioners; 
::{{Anchor|1.2.b}}(b) are registered, or in the opinion of the University of St. Andrews, the General Medical Council would direct that they be registered, under section 19 of that Act as fully registered medical practitioners; or 
::{{Anchor|1.2.c}}(c) are registered under section 22 of that Act as medical practitioners with limited registration.

{{Anchor|2.0}}'''2{{gap}}Short title'''
:This Act may be cited as the University of St. Andrews (Postgraduate Medical Degrees) Act 2002.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|32.5em|height=3px|align=right}}
{{float right|{{smaller|© Crown copyright 2002&lt;br&gt;Printed in the UK by The Stationery Office Limited&lt;br&gt;under the authority and superintendence of Carol Tullo, the Queen’s Printer for Scotland}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/58</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847746</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132628</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:46:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="2025" sha1="arp8l5xdrzggqakok017233lrdf0hkc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|162|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;It was not long after this that I left Beaver Island. Events there were becoming rather too warm even for me. To entrap me into his net, Strang had me summoned as a grand juror immediately after Savage and his companions shot his officers. It was the first grand jury that ever met on Beaver Island. There I was placed in the position of voting to indict my best friends for doing something that grew directly out of circumstances brought about by myself. Of course, I didn't hesitate to do so. I knew the birds would be flown, and I didn't propose to fall into the pit dug for me. I saw, however, that it was dangerous to remain where I was, and I received numerous warnings of the fate that lay in store for me. Men had disappeared before, and no one was the wiser. Houses had gone up in smoke and there was no explanation of the origin of the flames. I quietly made my arrangements and silently hied me away.

Strang was in many respects a remarkable man. He was small and spare, but as a speaker he towered like a giant. He was one of the most fascinating orators imaginable, He wore a very heavy beard of reddish tinge, and his hair was red, too. He had dark eyes, that looked at one on occasion as though they could bore right through. They were set close together, under wide projecting brows, from which rose a massive forehead. Add to this a thin hatchet face, and you have a grouping of features that would attract attention anywhere. His oratory was of the fervid, impassioned sort that would carry his audience with him every time. His words came out in a torrent; he could work himself into emotional spells at will, the sincerity of his words being attested by tears when necessary to produce that effect, or by infectious laughter when his mood was merry. He had what is known as magnetism, too, and could be one of the most companionable of men. His influence over his followers was unbounded. He was certainly a man of unusual talents in many respects. Had he chosen to&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>University of St. Andrews (Postgraduate Medical Degrees) Act 2002</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847747</id>
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      <comment>Added ASP 2002-15</comment>
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      <text bytes="566" sha1="24j1vkikmaddehjtn7wt8ijjnhergrg" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = University of St. Andrews (Postgraduate Medical Degrees) Act 2002
 | author      = Scottish Parliament | author-nolink = true
 | translator  = 
 | section     = 
 | previous    = 
 | next        = 
 | year        = 2002 | noyear = yes
 | notes       = '''Date of Commencement:''' 30 July 2002&lt;br&gt;{{UK Legislation link}}
 | portal      = Acts of the Scottish Parliament
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;University of St. Andrews (Postgraduate Medical Degrees) Act 2002 (ASP 2002-15 qp).pdf&quot; from=&quot;1&quot;/&gt;

{{OGL3}}
[[Category:Acts of the Scottish Parliament]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/59</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847748</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132635</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:47:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
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      <text bytes="1791" sha1="kda9ta879loapqfbfvevbkge5pdz14w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|163|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;use them for good, he would have left a great impress upon his country. When I was a young lad I heard him in a debate with a Catholic speaker in Elgin, Ill. It was to have been a three-days' debate. The priest brought up a number of newspaper stories to confound his adversary. In reply Strang confined himself entirely to the Scriptures. He so thoroughly discomfited his adversary in the debate that the next evening the priest failed to appear, and the judges awarded the verdict to Strang.

{{heading|III.}}

{{ph|MRS. CECELIA HILL'S RECOLLECTIONS.}}

Personal recollections of Mrs. Cecelia Hill, wife of Ludlow P. Hill, in an interview during the summer of 1896:

My parents were Mormons who were captured by the oratory of Strang and followed him to Beaver Island. I was fifteen years old at the time. I was present when Strang was crowned King. The ceremony took place in the tabernacle, a building about eighty feet long, constructed of hewn logs and but partly completed at the time of the coronation. Like any young woman under similar circumstances, I was anxious to be present and managed to get into the tabernacle. At one end was a platform, and towards it marched the procession of elders and other quorums, escorting the King. First came the King, dressed in a robe of bright red, and accompanied by his council. Then followed the twelve elders, the seventy and the minor orders of the ministry, or quorums, as they were called. The people were permitted to occupy what space remained in the tabernacle.

The chief ceremonials were performed by Geo. J. Adams, president of the council of elders. Adams was a man of imposing presence. He was over six feet tall and he towered over the short-statured King, who, however, made up in intel-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15132637</id>
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      <text bytes="1799" sha1="svv51rhv9xt9yokiab23q49hjnalm69" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|163|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;use them for good, he would have left a great impress upon his country. When I was a young lad I heard him in a debate with a Catholic speaker in Elgin, Ill. It was to have been a three-days' debate. The priest brought up a number of newspaper stories to confound his adversary. In reply Strang confined himself entirely to the Scriptures. He so thoroughly discomfited his adversary in the debate that the next evening the priest failed to appear, and the judges awarded the verdict to Strang.

{{heading|III.|center|}}

{{ph|MRS. CECELIA HILL'S RECOLLECTIONS.}}

Personal recollections of Mrs. Cecelia Hill, wife of Ludlow P. Hill, in an interview during the summer of 1896:

My parents were Mormons who were captured by the oratory of Strang and followed him to Beaver Island. I was fifteen years old at the time. I was present when Strang was crowned King. The ceremony took place in the tabernacle, a building about eighty feet long, constructed of hewn logs and but partly completed at the time of the coronation. Like any young woman under similar circumstances, I was anxious to be present and managed to get into the tabernacle. At one end was a platform, and towards it marched the procession of elders and other quorums, escorting the King. First came the King, dressed in a robe of bright red, and accompanied by his council. Then followed the twelve elders, the seventy and the minor orders of the ministry, or quorums, as they were called. The people were permitted to occupy what space remained in the tabernacle.

The chief ceremonials were performed by Geo. J. Adams, president of the council of elders. Adams was a man of imposing presence. He was over six feet tall and he towered over the short-statured King, who, however, made up in intel-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/842</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847749</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132636</id>
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        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;was a laundry. Four women in white bodices were passing over the linen  spread out before them the heavy and hot irons, letting a damp fume escape from them.   Suddenly, another, a fifth carrying on. her arm a large basket which made her back stoop, came out to bring the customers their shirts and chemises, their handkerchiefs and their sheets. She stepped on the threshold as if she were already fatigued; then, she raised her eyes, smiled when she saw us...</comment>
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      <text bytes="2976" sha1="ok3108y4zhuygng3d2sbnx2drb3xpgv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh|808|WORKS OF GUY DE MAUPASSANT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;was a laundry. Four women in white bodices were passing over the linen 
spread out before them the heavy and hot irons, letting a damp fume escape from them. 

Suddenly, another, a fifth carrying on. her arm a large basket which made her back stoop, came out to bring the customers their shirts and chemises, their handkerchiefs and their sheets. She stepped on the threshold as if she were already fatigued; then, she raised her eyes, smiled when she saw us smoking, flung at us, with her left hand, which was free, the sly kiss characteristic of a free-and-easy workingwoman; and she went away at a slow pace dragging her shoes after her. 

She was a damsel of about twenty, small, rather thin, pale, rather pretty, 
with the manners of a street-wench, and eyes laughing under her-illcombed fair hair. 

Père Piquedent, affected, began murmuring : 

&quot;What an occupation for a woman. Really a trade only fit for a horse.&quot; 

And he spoke with emotion about the misery of the people. He had a heart which swelled with lofty democratic 
sentiment, and he referred to the fatiguing pursuits of the working class with 
phrases borrowed from Jean-Jacques Rousseau and with sobs in his throat. 

Next day, as we wer cresting our el- 
bows at the same wind -w, the same 
workwoman perceived us, and cried out 
to us : 

&quot;Good day, my scholars!&quot; in a com- 
ical sort of tone, while she made a con- 
temptuous gesture with her hands. 

I flung her a cigarette, which she im- 
mediately began to smoke. And the four 

other ironers rushed out to the door with 
outstretched hands to get cigarettes 
also. 

And, each day, a friendly relationship 
was being formed between the working- 
women of the pavement and the idlers 
of the boarding-school. 

Pere Piquedent was really a comic 
sight to look at. He trembled at being 
noticed, for he might have lost his place; 
and he made timid and ridiculous ges- 
tures, quite a theatrical display of 
amorousness, to which the women re- 
sponded with a regular fusillade of 
hisses. 

A perfidious idea sprang up in my 
head. One day, en entering our room, I 
said to the old usher in a low tone: 

&quot;You would not believe it, Monsieur 
Piquedent, I met the little washer- 
v;oman! You know the one — the wo- 
man who had the basket — and I spoke 
to her!&quot; 

He asked, rather excited by the tone 
I had taken: 

''What did she say to you?&quot; 

&quot;She said to me — goodness gracious! 
— she said she thought you were very 
nice. The fact of the matter is, I be- 
lieve — that she is a little in love with 
you.&quot; I saw that he was growing pale. 
He exclaim^ed: 

&quot;She is laughing at me, of course. 
These things don't happen at my age.&quot; 

I said gravely: 

&quot;How is that? You are very nice.&quot; 

As I felt that my trick had produced 
its effect on him, I did not press the 
matter. 

But every day I pretended that I had 
met the little laundress and that I had 
spoken to her about him, so that in tbf&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ok3108y4zhuygng3d2sbnx2drb3xpgv</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132682</id>
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      <contributor>
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        <id>3088622</id>
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      <text bytes="2925" sha1="7xmiq79n1lgpspn4o5ycab67uj1uz8w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh|808|WORKS OF GUY DE MAUPASSANT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;was a laundry. Four women in white bodices were passing over the linen 
spread out before them the heavy and hot irons, letting a damp fume escape from them. 

Suddenly, another, a fifth carrying on. her arm a large basket which made her back stoop, came out to bring the customers their shirts and chemises, their handkerchiefs and their sheets. She stepped on the threshold as if she were already fatigued; then, she raised her eyes, smiled when she saw us smoking, flung at us, with her left hand, which was free, the sly kiss characteristic of a free-and-easy workingwoman; and she went away at a slow pace dragging her shoes after her. 

She was a damsel of about twenty, small, rather thin, pale, rather pretty, 
with the manners of a street-wench, and eyes laughing under her-illcombed fair hair. 

Père Piquedent, affected, began murmuring : 

&quot;What an occupation for a woman. Really a trade only fit for a horse.&quot; 

And he spoke with emotion about the misery of the people. He had a heart which swelled with lofty democratic 
sentiment, and he referred to the fatiguing pursuits of the working class with 
phrases borrowed from Jean-Jacques Rousseau and with sobs in his throat. 

Next day, as we wer eresting our elbows at the same window, the same 
workwoman perceived us, and cried out to us: 

&quot;Good day, my scholars!&quot; in a comical sort of tone, while she made a contemptuous gesture with her hands. 

I flung her a cigarette, which she immediately began to smoke. And the four 
other ironers rushed out to the door with outstretched hands to get cigarettes also. 

And, each day, a friendly relationship 
was being formed between the working-women of the pavement and the idlers of the boarding-school. 

Père Piquedent was really a comic sight to look at. He trembled at being noticed, for he might have lost his place; 
and he made timid and ridiculous gestures, quite a theatrical display of 
amorousness, to which the women responded with a regular fusillade of hisses. 

A perfidious idea sprang up in my head. One day, on entering our room, I said to the old usher in a low tone: 

&quot;You would not believe it, Monsieur 
Piquedent, I met the little washer-woman! You know the one — the woman who had the basket — and I spoke to her!&quot; 

He asked, rather excited by the tone I had taken: 

&quot;What did she say to you?&quot; 

&quot;She said to me — goodness gracious! — she said she thought you were very 
nice. The fact of the matter is, I believe — that she is a little in love with 
you.&quot; I saw that he was growing pale. He exclaimed: 

&quot;She is laughing at me, of course. These things don't happen at my age.&quot; 

I said gravely: 

&quot;How is that? You are very nice.&quot; 

As I felt that my trick had produced its effect on him, I did not press the matter. 

But every day I pretended that I had met the little laundress and that I had spoken to her about him, so that in the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/60</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847750</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132639</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:49:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
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      <text bytes="2049" sha1="oj429v568mwor57wva7vfqmtls5hsum" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|164|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;lect what he lacked in frame. Adams had been an actor, and he succeeded in making the crowning of the King a very imposing ceremony. It ended by placing upon the auburn head of Strang a crown of metal. The crown was a plain circlet, with a cluster of stars projecting in front.

It was July 8th that this ceremony occurred, and every recurring 8th of July was known as the King's Day and wis celebrated as a holiday with many festivities. The entire population of the island would gather at a place in the woods to go through prescribed ceremonials—the hewers of wood and the drawers of water to make proper obeisance to the King. There were burnt offerings to begin with. The head of each family brought a fowl and a heifer was thereupon killed. Its body was dissected without breaking a bone. After these ceremonials there was feasting and rejoicing and the people danced on the greensward. King's Day was the same with the islanders as the Fourth of July is with us.

The Mormons under Strang strove to follow strictly the old Mosaic law. Every man who went with Strang was given &quot;an inheritance.&quot; The tithing system was in full effect. The firstling of every flock and the first fruits of the orchard and the field were due to the King's court. Every one who went into the church was compelled to give as his first contribution one-tenth of all his possessions. The people believed in the Mosaic law implicitly, even to the stoning of a rebellious child. There was a fisherman named Bennett, who resisted and wounded at Mormon officer and was shot to death. In following out the injunction to throw a stone upon the grave of any man guilty of shedding the blood of the Saints, a pile of stones was heaped upon his grave big enough for a monument. When the fishermen raided the island after Strang's death, they compelled the Mormons to pick every one of these stones off the grave of Bennett and cast them into the lake. Most of the subjects of Strang were Americans, and many of them were sincere, earn-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>oj429v568mwor57wva7vfqmtls5hsum</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/61</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847751</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132642</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T00:51:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eievie</username>
        <id>2999977</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132642</origin>
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      <text bytes="1992" sha1="swnx3edqlivwgr1fk26wpik4wtp4x60" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|165|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;est and intelligent. The head men were, I believe, imposters who sought to live off the labor of others. I have already mentioned Adams, the actor. He was chief in authority when Strang was away. Afterwards he became disgruntled and went into the prophet business on his own account. He led a band of Mormons to Africa and abandoned them there. After Adams left one Bacon was the King pro tem. Gen. Miller was the chief in military authority. He had been a bishop of the church at Nauvoo, and came with two wives. He married another one on the island—a young woman, although he was an old gray-haired man. I think Strang had five wives, and his death prevented his adding two more to the list—two sisters. His first wife's maiden name was Perse, his second Alvina Fields. His third we knew as Aunt Betsy,&lt;ref&gt;September 22, 1897.—While this paper is in press, the telegraphic news in the daily papers announces {{SIC|ths|the}} death of &quot;Aunt Betsy,&quot; the polygamous third wife of James Strang.&lt;/ref&gt; and is, I believe, still living. When Chicago was destroyed by fire she said that &quot;James prophesied it,&quot; and took it as a judgment for the persecution of her husband. She never lost faith in her husband.

{{heading|IV.|center}}

{{ph|THE BATTLE ON THE LAKE.}}

E. S. Stone was the captain of the bark aboard which Mormon fugitives sought refuge when pursued by the Gentile fishermen of Pine River. I am indebted to Col. George P.. Mathes, of Milwaukee, for permission to use following narrative, dictated by Capt. Stone for the manuscript collection of Col. Mathes:

In the year 1852, while on my trip up from Buffalo to Chicago on the bark Morgan, in passing through the Straits of Mackinaw one very calm summer afternoon, when about halfway between Beaver Island and Pine River on the main land. (south shore), and while at dinner in the cabin, we heard great firing of guns; and on rushing on deck, saw a small fleet of row-&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Council of the Law Society of Scotland Act 2003 (ASP 2003-14 qp).pdf/1</title>
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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|[[File:Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom (Scotland) B&amp;W.png|150px]]}}

{{Center|{{xx-larger|Council of the Law Society of Scotland Act 2003}}}}  
{{Center|{{larger|'''2003 asp 14'''}}}}

'''The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 26th March 2003 and received Royal Assent on 1st May 2003'''

An Act of the Scottish Parliament to make provision about the discharge of functions of the Council of the Law Society of Scotland and the appointment and constitution of committees and sub-committees of that Council. 

{{Anchor|1.0}}'''1{{gap}}Discharge of functions of the Council of the Law Society of Scotland'''
:After section 3 (establishment and functions of Council of the Law Society of Scotland) of the [[Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980]] (c.46) (“the 1980 Act”), insert— 
::“'''3A{{gap}}Discharge of functions of Council of the Law Society'''
:::(1) The Council may arrange for any of their functions (other than excepted functions) to be discharged on their behalf by— 
::::(a) a committee of the Council; 
::::(b) a sub-committee of such a committee; or 
::::(c) an individual (whether or not a member of the Society’s staff).
:::(2) Where, under subsection (1)(a), the Council have arranged for any of their functions to be discharged by a committee, the committee may, with the approval of the Council, arrange for that function to be discharged on behalf of the Council by— 
::::(a) a sub-committee of the committee; or 
::::(b) an individual (whether or not a member of the Society’s staff).
:::(3) Where, under subsection (1) or (2), the Council or a committee have arranged for any of the Council’s functions to be discharged by a sub-committee, the sub-committee may, with the approval of the Council, arrange for that function to be discharged on behalf of the Council by a member of the Society’s staff.
:::(4) A power given by subsection (1), (2) or (3) may be exercised so as to impose restrictions or conditions on the body or person by whom the function concerned is to be discharged.
:::(5) Any arrangement made under this section shall not arrange for any of the following functions of the Council to be discharged by an individual—&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/62</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847753</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132646</id>
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      <text bytes="2027" sha1="f00q5pg7s9obsrh037jz0ob8wt7rm0s" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|166|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;boats on the surface of the calm water coming toward our vessel from the south shore. They were evidently in a fierce battle, and viewing them through my spyglass, I saw that there were three Mackinaw boats filled with men fleeing from some larger barges, double banked with oars, that were rapidly gaining on the smaller boats, and firing on them as fast as they could load and fire. When the smaller boats got near enough to hail us, they asked us for God's sake to take them on board and save them from being murdered, as they were completely exhausted and could pull no longer and were being shot to pieces. Of course, common humanity compelled me to grant their request, and as they pulled alongside to be taken on board, the bullets flying thick about them, and some striking the bows of the vessel as they pulled behind it, the boats in chase hailed me, demanding that I should drive them off, as they were Mormons, robbers and thieves, and they wanted to kill every one of them; and if I did not do so they would fire into my vessel, which threat I knew they dared not carry out. In taking the Mormons on board, I found all of them armed with rifles, and the first one as he stepped on board turned and said: &quot;Now, we will give it to them.&quot; I caught and disarmed him and all the rest as they came over the rail. When they were all on board I asked the fishermen from Pine River to come. nearer and talk with me, which they did, but not near enough to be recognized, as there were some on both sides that knew me and called me by name. The fishermen claimed that the Mormons were the aggressors, which the Mormons denied, saying they had not fired a shot, and showed me their guns were all loaded. I found that out of the fifteen Mormons that were in the Mackinaw boats, eight were severely wounded, their boats were riddled with bullets and bespattered with blood, and the water in the bottom of the boats very bloody; and it seemed almost a miracle that none of them were killed.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/63</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="2013" sha1="k17vwepgek7189wlp9keybksy2bs04x" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|167|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;An oar pulled by one of them was struck by three bullets, yet the man was unhurt.

The fishermen laid by on their oars for some time watching us, and finally, when they got tired of waiting for the Mormons to leave the vessel, pulled back to their home at Pine River. We dressed the wounds of the Mormons the best we could and fed them, and at night, under cover of the darkness, they got into their boats and pulled for their homes on Beaver Island.

When I arrived in Chicago I gave to a reporter rather a burlesque account of a sea fight between the &quot;Latter Day Saints&quot; and the &quot;Gentiles,&quot; which was not much relished by King Strang. However, the Mormons as a body were very grateful for their rescue, and later in the fall, when I was obliged to run into Beaver Harbor for safety in a storm, they gave a ball and banquet in my honor, and I led the first dance with King Strang's favorite wife. The women were all dressed in calico bloomers, and the costumes of the men were equally odd and conspicuous.

There had long been bad blood between the Mormons and the Gentiles, and this particular battle was caused by the setting off of a new county in what was then called Northern Michigan, including Beaver Island, many other islands, Mackinaw, and nearly a hundred miles of the south shore. In organizing the county and electing its officers the Mormons had held an election on Beaver Island and elected their officers, claiming that as the county seat, while the Gentiles had held an election at Mackinaw and elected their officers, and claimed a legal election and the county seat. At this time the Mormon county judge had issued a mandamus, or something of the kind, for a grand jury, and claimed the jurors were drawn from different parts of the county and had been summoned to appear at Beaver Island, which they had failed to do, and the Mormon sheriff had been ordered to go over to the main land with this posse and arrest the jurors and bring them over to Beaver&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;::::(a) under section 42A(1) or (2), or under section 33(1) of the 1990 Act, the functions of determining—
:::::(i) whether to uphold or dismiss a conduct complaint (within the meaning of the said section 33(1)); and
:::::(ii) what action to take in the matter; and 
::::(b) under section 20(1) or (2) of the 1990 Act, the functions of determining— 
:::::(i) whether any of paragraphs (a) to (d) of the said section 20(1) apply to the practitioner; and
:::::(ii) what action to take in the matter. 
:::(6) An arrangement made under this section may identify an individual by name or by reference to an office or post which the individual holds.
:::(7) An arrangement under this section for the discharge of any of the functions of the Council may extend to any of the functions of the Society which is exercisable by the Council.
:::(8) Where any arrangement is made under this section for the discharge of any of the functions of the Council by a body or person, the function shall be exercised by that body or person in the name of the Council, except that, where the function in question is a function of the Society which is exercisable by the Council, it shall be exercised in the name of the Society.
:::(9) Any arrangement under this section for the discharge of any of the functions of the Council— 
::::(a) does not affect the responsibility of the Council for the exercise of the function or any liability arising therefrom; 
::::(b) does not prevent the Council from exercising the function; and 
::::(c) may be revoked at any time by the Council and also, in the case of any arrangement made under subsection (2) or (3), by the committee or subcommittee which made that arrangement.
:::(10) In this section, “excepted functions” means— 
::::(a) any function of the Council to make rules or regulations under this Act or any other enactment; and 
::::(b) any function of the Council under paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 to prepare a scheme (scheme for the constitution of the Council etc.). 
:::(11) This section is without prejudice to any other power which the Council may have to arrange for the discharge of their functions. 
:::(12) During any period before— 
::::(a) paragraph 14(6)(a) of schedule 4 to the [[Public Appointments and Public Bodies etc. (Scotland) Act 2003]] (asp 4) comes into force, subsection (5) applies as if paragraph (b) and the word “and” that precedes it were omitted; 
::::(b) section 12(c) of that Act comes into force, subsection (5)(a) applies as if for the words “the 1990 Act” there were substituted “the [[Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Scotland) Act 1990]] (c.40) (“the 1990 Act”).”.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/64</title>
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      <text bytes="1840" sha1="02ybok06f98vsmry35p9vqwa9u25ln8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|168|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Island. When they reached Pine River and began to make the arrests, they resisted and the fight commenced. The Gentiles claimed that the &quot;Latter Day Saints,&quot; finding them too much for them, fired and ran, and took to their boats, and got such a start before they got organized and in their boats that they were first able to reach the Morgan and save their lives. But the war still continued after this encounter, until the Mormons, getting the worst of it, appealed to the United States government for protection, and the frigate Michigan was sent to remove all the Mormons from Beaver Island to Wisconsin. When they got there some renounced the faith and some imigrated to Salt Lake, and King Strang had not enough of a following to organize a new community, and I do not remember what finally became of him.

{{right block|offset=2em|
{{sc|E. S. Stone}},&lt;br&gt;
By {{sc|Mrs. Stone}}.
}}

{{blockquote|
P. S.—Mr. Stone has been very ill, but being much better, yet not quite equal to writing, has dictated this to me and I have written it in haste.

{{right|{{sc|Mrs. E. L. Stone.}}}}
}}

{{heading|V.|center}}

{{ph|INTERVIEW WITH JUDGE LYON.}}

Interview with Judge William Penn Lyon, of the Wisconsin Supreme Court:

I lived at Burlington and knew Strang well. He was an eccentric man, but a shrewd and able one in many respects. How he drew so many men of intelligence under his influence is one of the strange circumstances which we know to be, but can not explain. I have no doubt most of his converts were sincere they would hardly have given up all they possessed otherwise. My partner Barnes always believed Strang to be sincere, too, and he was a man of intelligence and penetration. Strang converted some of the best people of Burlington to Mormonism. Among them I may mention Wm. Aldrich,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1850" sha1="eahiz7fi8wv7uozpj4xhlx1alcz5idn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|168|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Island. When they reached Pine River and began to make the arrests, they resisted and the fight commenced. The Gentiles claimed that the &quot;Latter Day Saints,&quot; finding them too much for them, fired and ran, and took to their boats, and got such a start before they got organized and in their boats that they were first able to reach the Morgan and save their lives. But the war still continued after this encounter, until the Mormons, getting the worst of it, appealed to the United States government for protection, and the frigate Michigan was sent to remove all the Mormons from Beaver Island to Wisconsin. When they got there some renounced the faith and some imigrated to Salt Lake, and King Strang had not enough of a following to organize a new community, and I do not remember what finally became of him.

{{right block|offset=2em|
{{sc|E. S. Stone}},&lt;br&gt;
By {{sc|Mrs. Stone}}.
}}
{{clear}}

{{blockquote|
P. S.—Mr. Stone has been very ill, but being much better, yet not quite equal to writing, has dictated this to me and I have written it in haste.

{{right|{{sc|Mrs. E. L. Stone.}}}}
}}

{{heading|V.|center}}

{{ph|INTERVIEW WITH JUDGE LYON.}}

Interview with Judge William Penn Lyon, of the Wisconsin Supreme Court:

I lived at Burlington and knew Strang well. He was an eccentric man, but a shrewd and able one in many respects. How he drew so many men of intelligence under his influence is one of the strange circumstances which we know to be, but can not explain. I have no doubt most of his converts were sincere they would hardly have given up all they possessed otherwise. My partner Barnes always believed Strang to be sincere, too, and he was a man of intelligence and penetration. Strang converted some of the best people of Burlington to Mormonism. Among them I may mention Wm. Aldrich,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Anchor|2.0}}'''2{{gap}} Committees and sub-committees of the Council of the Law Society of Scotland'''
:{{Anchor|2.1}}(1) Schedule 1 to the 1980 Act is amended as follows.
:{{Anchor|2.2}}(2) In paragraph 2(d), after “committees” insert “and sub-committees”.
:{{Anchor|2.3}}(3) In paragraph 3, after sub-paragraph (b), insert— 
::“(ba) may make provision for persons other than solicitors to be members of a committee or sub-committee of the Council (including provision for such persons to constitute a majority of the members of the committee or subcommittee);”.

{{Anchor|3.0}}'''3{{gap}} Short title and commencement'''
:{{Anchor|3.1}}(1) This Act may be cited as the Council of the Law Society of Scotland Act 2003.
:{{Anchor|3.2}}(2) This Act comes into force at the end of the period of one month beginning with the date of Royal Assent.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|32.5em|height=3px|align=right}}
{{float right|{{smaller|© Crown copyright 2002&lt;br&gt;Printed in the UK by The Stationery Office Limited&lt;br&gt;under the authority and superintendence of Carol Tullo, the Queen’s Printer for Scotland}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Anchor|2.0}}'''2{{gap}} Committees and sub-committees of the Council of the Law Society of Scotland'''
:{{Anchor|2.1}}(1) Schedule 1 to the 1980 Act is amended as follows.
:{{Anchor|2.2}}(2) In paragraph 2(d), after “committees” insert “and sub-committees”.
:{{Anchor|2.3}}(3) In paragraph 3, after sub-paragraph (b), insert— 
::“(ba) may make provision for persons other than solicitors to be members of a committee or sub-committee of the Council (including provision for such persons to constitute a majority of the members of the committee or subcommittee);”.

{{Anchor|3.0}}'''3{{gap}} Short title and commencement'''
:{{Anchor|3.1}}(1) This Act may be cited as the Council of the Law Society of Scotland Act 2003.
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{{float right|{{smaller|© Crown copyright 2003&lt;br&gt;Printed in the UK by The Stationery Office Limited&lt;br&gt;under the authority and superintendence of Carol Tullo, the Queen’s Printer for Scotland}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/65</title>
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      <text bytes="1816" sha1="e3w5wowpyshbbjo4qtqzd2ib0r6r8wy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|169|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;whose son has since served a term or two in the legislature; Hale, whose son became eminent as a geologist, and Titus G. Fish.

{{heading|VI.|center}}

{{ph|THE BURIED PLATES OF LABAN.}}

From the &quot;Revelations of James J. Strang,&quot; as compiled by Wingfield Watson, of Spring Prairie:

{{center|{{smaller|(Revelation given to James J. Strang, September 1, 1845.)}}}}

1. The angel of the Lord came unto me, James, on the first day of September, in the year eighteen hundred and fortyfive, and the light shined about him above the brightness of the sun, and he showed unto me the plates of the sealed record, and he gave into my hands the Urim and Thummin, and out of the light came the voice of the Lord saying: &quot;My servant James, in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thee, because I have tried thee and found thee faithful. Behold my servant James, I am about to bless thee with a great blessing, which shall be to those that love me an immutable testimony, to those who know me not a stumbling block; but to those who have known me and have turned their hearts from me a rock of offense. Yea, let them beware, for shame and destruction walk in their tracks, and their time abideth but not long.

2. A work shall come forth, and the secrets of the past shalt thou reveal. Yea, by little and little shalt thou reveal it, according to the ability and faithfulness of my church and of my servants whom I have placed above them. Behold the record which was sealed from my servant Joseph, unto thee it is reserved. Take heed that thou count it not a light thing, nor exalt thyself, lest thou be stricken; for by myself I swear that as thou servest my faithfully and comest not short, thou shalt unlock the mysteries thereof which I have kept hid from the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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 | year        = 2002 | noyear = yes
 | notes       = '''Date of Commencement:''' 1 June 2003&lt;br&gt;{{UK Legislation link}}
 | portal      = Acts of the Scottish Parliament
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      <text bytes="2002" sha1="5l8yyysuvc398h3ikqhkn7zfh29rhw8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|170|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;world. Yea, as my servants serve me so shalt thou translate unto them.

3. But in their weakness I have not forgotten them. Go to the place which the angel of the presence shall show 'thee, and there shalt thou dig for the record of my people in whose possessions thou dwellest. Take with thee faithful witnesses, for in evil will the unfaithful speak of thee; but the faithful and true shall know that they are liars and shall not stumble for their words.

4. Speak thou unto the elders of my church and say unto them: Hear my voice, and harken unto my words, for they are true and faithful. Testify, testify unto all the saints. Testify, testify in all the world. He that rejecteth you, him will I reject in the day that I come in my kingdom. Testify, testify unto him who has received my word and turned away. Let him now return unto me, and obey and serve his God, lest he be smitten with a curse, and his children curse him, and his name be blotted out of the book of life.

5. Yea, those to whom I have revealed myself, let them hearken unto me now, lest they be cast off in the day of my indignation, lest the consuming fire of the day of trial burn them up. Yea, lest the second death make them his prey, and they be cast into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone.

6. Rejoice, ye holy, for the day of your deliverance is near, and the time of your exaltation is at hand. Faithful and true. are my words, dividing the marrow from the bones and truth from rottenness. He that rejecteth them, will I reject when I come in my kingdom. And while I was yet in the spirit, the angel of the Lord took me away to the hill in the east of Walworth, against White River in Voree, and there he showed unto me the record, buried under an oak tree as large as the body of a large man. It was enclosed in an earthen casement, and buried in the ground as deep as to a man's waist; and I beheld it as a man can see a light stone in clear water; for I saw it by Urim&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/67</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847762</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132656</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:01:45Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Eievie</username>
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      <text bytes="1858" sha1="2tqhw38bxiyqxve9vy93sq9vydt7cu6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|171|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and Thummim, and I returned the Urim and Thummim to the angel of the Lord and he departed out of my sight.

{{blockquote|(Translation of the Voree Record by the Prophet James, by Urim and Thummim, September 18, 1845, as revealed in the foregoing revelation.)}}

1. My people are no more. The mighty are fallen and the young slain in battle. Their bones bleached on the plain by the noonday shadow. The houses are leveled to the dust, and in the moat are the walls. They shall be inhabited. I have in the burial served them, and their bones in the death shade toward the sun's rising are covered. They sleep with the mighty dead, and they rest with their fathers. They have fallen in transgression and are not, but the elect and faithful there shall dwell.

2. The word hath revealed it. God hath sworn to give an inheritance to his people where transgressors perished. The word of God came to me while I mourned in the deathshade, saying, I will avenge me on the destroyer. He shall be driven out. Other strangers shall inhabit the land. I an ensign there will set up. The escaped of my people there shall dwell, when the flock disown the shepherd and build not on the rock.

3. The forerunner men shall kill, but a mighty prophet there shall dwell. I will be his strength, and he shall bring forth thy record. Record my words and bury it in the hill of promise.

4. The record of Rajah Manchore of Vorito.

{{ph|VOREE PLATES.}}

{{center|{{smaller|(Description of one side of one of the Voree Plates.)}}}}

1st. An eye. The symbol of God, who is all-seeing: consequently it is called the all-seeing eye, and has been used as symbolical of the Deity in all countries, and in all ages of the world.

2d. The figure of a man down to the waist having a crown resembling a cap, and composed of radiating lines, on his head;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/69</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847764</id>
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      <id>15132659</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:03:20Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2030" sha1="132oodp9rtxij6l8k1eqdsttq185omk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|173|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;and a scepter in his hand. These are symbols of authority, and shew him a ruler. As he has the sun, moon and stars (all the natural lights) below him, and only the all-seeing eye above him, he is prophet, seer, revelator, translator, and first president of the church—governing not by natural light, or mere human wisdom, but by revelation or the word of God, and derives his authority solely from God, and not in any sense from the actions of men.

3d. The sun on the right and the moon on the left. These represent the two vice-presidents, or counsellors in the first presidency; the two largest natural lights being used as symbols, because they are to assist the first president in wisdom, or natural light merely, and not by revelation.

4th. A cross pillar above and resting upon the center large star, and under the human figure, two pillars above and resting upon the two upper large stars, and below and between the sun and the moon. These represent coadjutors, assistants or helps, of whom there have been several since the beginning of the church, appointed by revelation.

5th. Twelve stars, six around the sun and six around the moon. These represent the High Council of the church. The division into classes of six each agrees with established usages in the church, one-half to stand up for the accuser, and the other for the accused. This is not the high council of the state.

6th. Twelve large stars. Ten of these in two rows at the bottom of the plate, and the other two over them, nearly between the sun and moon. They represent the twelve. apostles. These stars are larger than those which represent the High Council of the Church, because the apostles have a more important ministry; but are placed below them because they are subject to their discipline, and below the symbols of the first presidency because they are subject to its directions.

7th. Seventy small stars immediately within the points of the twelve large ones, being six to each except the center one,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:A Moses of the Mormons.djvu/70</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>15132660</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:04:29Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Eievie</username>
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      <text bytes="1726" sha1="kwi5z81k686qhqh3b72ve2a93hqr24b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Eievie&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|174|''A MOSES OF THE MORMONS.''}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;which has only four. They represent the seventies, who are subject to the direction of the twelve apostles.

8th. A straight line dropping down before the scepter. &quot;Therefore thus saith the Lord God, behold I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line and righteousness to the plummet; and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.&quot;

&quot;Thus he shewed me; and behold the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumb-line, with a plumb-line in his hand. And the Lord said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, a plumb-line. Then said the Lord, Behold I will set a plumb-&quot; line in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more.&quot;

These symbols were all prophetic of the order that will exist in the fullness of times. Thus God in His goodness to those who lived in days past has shown them not only the rest which He had in reservation for them, but the perfectness of the means by which He will accomplish it. Probably now we understand it in part, but in times to come we shall &quot;know as we are known.&quot;

{{rule|30%}}

The Voree plates have disappeared. Chas. J. Strang writes concerning them: &quot;I do not know where the plates are. I never saw them.&quot; Wingfield Watson writes: &quot;The three Voree plates are in the hands of some one of Mr. Strang's family, whose address I do not now know.&quot;

{{heading|VII.|center}}

{{ph|STRANG'S BOOKS AND PAMPHLETS.}}

Owing to the destruction of the royal press at Beaver Island, by the torch, when the fishermen expelled the Mor-&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs|rule=yes}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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8th. A straight line dropping down before the scepter. &quot;Therefore thus saith the Lord God, behold I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line and righteousness to the plummet; and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.&quot;

&quot;Thus he shewed me; and behold the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumb-line, with a plumb-line in his hand. And the Lord said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, a plumb-line. Then said the Lord, Behold I will set a plumb-&quot; line in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more.&quot;

These symbols were all prophetic of the order that will exist in the fullness of times. Thus God in His goodness to those who lived in days past has shown them not only the rest which He had in reservation for them, but the perfectness of the means by which He will accomplish it. Probably now we understand it in part, but in times to come we shall &quot;know as we are known.&quot;

{{rule|30%|margin_tb=2em}}

The Voree plates have disappeared. Chas. J. Strang writes concerning them: &quot;I do not know where the plates are. I never saw them.&quot; Wingfield Watson writes: &quot;The three Voree plates are in the hands of some one of Mr. Strang's family, whose address I do not now know.&quot;

{{heading|VII.|center}}

{{ph|STRANG'S BOOKS AND PAMPHLETS.}}

Owing to the destruction of the royal press at Beaver Island, by the torch, when the fishermen expelled the Mor-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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8th. A straight line dropping down before the scepter. &quot;Therefore thus saith the Lord God, behold I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line and righteousness to the plummet; and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.&quot;

&quot;Thus he shewed me; and behold the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumb-line, with a plumb-line in his hand. And the Lord said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, a plumb-line. Then said the Lord, Behold I will set a plumb-&quot; line in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more.&quot;

These symbols were all prophetic of the order that will exist in the fullness of times. Thus God in His goodness to those who lived in days past has shown them not only the rest which He had in reservation for them, but the perfectness of the means by which He will accomplish it. Probably now we understand it in part, but in times to come we shall &quot;know as we are known.&quot;

{{rule|30%|margin_tb=1.5em}}

The Voree plates have disappeared. Chas. J. Strang writes concerning them: &quot;I do not know where the plates are. I never saw them.&quot; Wingfield Watson writes: &quot;The three Voree plates are in the hands of some one of Mr. Strang's family, whose address I do not now know.&quot;

{{heading|VII.|center}}

{{ph|STRANG'S BOOKS AND PAMPHLETS.}}

Owing to the destruction of the royal press at Beaver Island, by the torch, when the fishermen expelled the Mor-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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'''The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 26th March 2003 and received Royal Assent on 1st May 2003''' 

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{{Anchor|3.0}}'''3{{gap}}Short title and commencement'''
:{{Anchor|3.1}}(1) This Act may be cited as the National Galleries of Scotland Act 2003.
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{{Center|{{larger|'''2003 asp 16'''}}}}

'''The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 26th March 2003 and received Royal Assent on 1st May 2003''' 

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::{{Anchor|1.1.a}}(a) the relevant land shall cease to form part of Princes Street Gardens; and 
::{{Anchor|1.1.b}}(b) the restrictions on constructing buildings contained in section 22 (restrictions on buildings in certain parks) of the Schedule to the [[City of Edinburgh District Council Order Confirmation Act 1991]] (c.xix) shall cease to apply to the relevant land.

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{{Anchor|3.0}}'''3{{gap}}Short title and commencement'''
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 | title       = National Galleries of Scotland Act 2003
 | author      = Scottish Parliament | author-nolink = true
 | translator  = 
 | section     = 
 | previous    = 
 | next        = 
 | year        = 2003 | noyear = yes
 | notes       = '''Date of Commencement:''' 8 May 2003&lt;br&gt;{{UK Legislation link}}
 | portal      = Acts of the Scottish Parliament
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&lt;pages index=&quot;National Galleries of Scotland Act 2003 (ASP 2003-16 qp).pdf&quot; from=&quot;1&quot;/&gt;

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      <id>15132675</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:17:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Penguin1737</username>
        <id>3062038</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132675</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2117" sha1="87496prj7lt8osm82hu0ik6rjgccd2i" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Penguin1737&quot; /&gt;{{rh|''Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010 (asp 7)''||1}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|[[File:Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom (Scotland) B&amp;W.png|150px]]}}

{{Center|{{xx-larger|Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010}}}}   
{{Center|{{larger|'''2010 asp 7'''}}}}

'''The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 3rd March 2010 and received Royal Assent on 9th April 2010'''

An Act of the Scottish Parliament to transfer the property, rights, interests and liabilities of the Ure Elder Fund for Indigent Widow Ladies to a successor charitable trust; and for connected purposes.

{{Anchor|1.0}}'''1{{gap}}Transfer of property etc.'''
:{{Anchor|1.1}}(1) All property, rights, interests and liabilities of the transferor are transferred to and vest in the transferee.
:{{Anchor|1.2}}(2) Any legal proceedings, applications to any authority or other proceedings for the resolution of a dispute by or against the transferor which are pending or current immediately before this Act comes into force may be continued by or against the transferee.

{{Anchor|2.0}}'''2{{gap}}Dissolution and repeal'''
:{{Anchor|2.1}}(1) The transferor is dissolved.
:{{Anchor|2.2}}(2) The [[Ure Elder Fund Order Confirmation Act 1906]] is repealed.

{{Anchor|3.0}}'''3{{gap}}Interpretation''' 
:In this Act— 
::“transferee” means the Ure Elder Trust established by Deed of Trust dated 26 August 2009 and subsequently registered in the Books of Council and Session; 
::“transferor” means the Ure Elder Fund for Indigent Widow Ladies incorporated by Act of Parliament under and by virtue of the [[Ure Elder Fund Order Confirmation Act 1906]].

{{Anchor|4.0}}'''4{{gap}}Short title and commencement'''
:{{Anchor|4.1}}(1) This Act may be cited as the Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010.
:{{Anchor|4.2}}(2) This Act comes into force two months after it has received Royal Assent.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule}}
{{smaller|© Crown copyright 2010&lt;br&gt;Printed in the UK by The Stationery Office Limited under the authority and superintendence of Carol Tullo, the Queen’s Printer for Scotland.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>87496prj7lt8osm82hu0ik6rjgccd2i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132679</id>
      <parentid>15132675</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:19:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Penguin1737</username>
        <id>3062038</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Case</comment>
      <origin>15132679</origin>
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      <text bytes="2117" sha1="dcoyfop6ec0b9c8sdctyqm7ham9b78m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Penguin1737&quot; /&gt;{{rh|''Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010 (asp 7)''||1}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|[[File:Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom (Scotland) B&amp;W.png|150px]]}}

{{Center|{{xx-larger|Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010}}}}   
{{Center|{{larger|'''2010 asp 7'''}}}}

'''The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 3rd March 2010 and received Royal Assent on 9th April 2010'''

An Act of the Scottish Parliament to transfer the property, rights, interests and liabilities of the Ure Elder Fund for Indigent Widow Ladies to a successor charitable trust; and for connected purposes.

{{Anchor|1.0}}'''1{{gap}}Transfer of property etc.'''
:{{Anchor|1.1}}(1) All property, rights, interests and liabilities of the transferor are transferred to and vest in the transferee.
:{{Anchor|1.2}}(2) Any legal proceedings, applications to any authority or other proceedings for the resolution of a dispute by or against the transferor which are pending or current immediately before this Act comes into force may be continued by or against the transferee.

{{Anchor|2.0}}'''2{{gap}}Dissolution and repeal'''
:{{Anchor|2.1}}(1) The transferor is dissolved.
:{{Anchor|2.2}}(2) The [[Ure Elder Fund Order Confirmation Act 1906]] is repealed.

{{Anchor|3.0}}'''3{{gap}}Interpretation''' 
:In this Act— 
::“transferee” means the Ure Elder Trust established by Deed of Trust dated 26 August 2009 and subsequently registered in the Books of Council and Session; 
::“transferor” means the Ure Elder Fund for Indigent Widow Ladies incorporated by Act of Parliament under and by virtue of the [[Ure Elder Fund Order Confirmation Act 1906]].

{{Anchor|4.0}}'''4{{gap}}Short title and commencement'''
:{{Anchor|4.1}}(1) This Act may be cited as the Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010.
:{{Anchor|4.2}}(2) This Act comes into force two months after it has received Royal Assent.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule}}
{{smaller|© Crown Copyright 2010&lt;br&gt;Printed in the UK by The Stationery Office Limited under the authority and superintendence of Carol Tullo, the Queen’s Printer for Scotland.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dcoyfop6ec0b9c8sdctyqm7ham9b78m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133464</id>
      <parentid>15132679</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T05:46:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ToxicPea</username>
        <id>3146019</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* Validated */</comment>
      <origin>15133464</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2117" sha1="n2rq1rjxxvm4buj4dswsfeh0q4urwwd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;ToxicPea&quot; /&gt;{{rh|''Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010 (asp 7)''||1}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|[[File:Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom (Scotland) B&amp;W.png|150px]]}}

{{Center|{{xx-larger|Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010}}}}   
{{Center|{{larger|'''2010 asp 7'''}}}}

'''The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 3rd March 2010 and received Royal Assent on 9th April 2010'''

An Act of the Scottish Parliament to transfer the property, rights, interests and liabilities of the Ure Elder Fund for Indigent Widow Ladies to a successor charitable trust; and for connected purposes.

{{Anchor|1.0}}'''1{{gap}}Transfer of property etc.'''
:{{Anchor|1.1}}(1) All property, rights, interests and liabilities of the transferor are transferred to and vest in the transferee.
:{{Anchor|1.2}}(2) Any legal proceedings, applications to any authority or other proceedings for the resolution of a dispute by or against the transferor which are pending or current immediately before this Act comes into force may be continued by or against the transferee.

{{Anchor|2.0}}'''2{{gap}}Dissolution and repeal'''
:{{Anchor|2.1}}(1) The transferor is dissolved.
:{{Anchor|2.2}}(2) The [[Ure Elder Fund Order Confirmation Act 1906]] is repealed.

{{Anchor|3.0}}'''3{{gap}}Interpretation''' 
:In this Act— 
::“transferee” means the Ure Elder Trust established by Deed of Trust dated 26 August 2009 and subsequently registered in the Books of Council and Session; 
::“transferor” means the Ure Elder Fund for Indigent Widow Ladies incorporated by Act of Parliament under and by virtue of the [[Ure Elder Fund Order Confirmation Act 1906]].

{{Anchor|4.0}}'''4{{gap}}Short title and commencement'''
:{{Anchor|4.1}}(1) This Act may be cited as the Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010.
:{{Anchor|4.2}}(2) This Act comes into force two months after it has received Royal Assent.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule}}
{{smaller|© Crown Copyright 2010&lt;br&gt;Printed in the UK by The Stationery Office Limited under the authority and superintendence of Carol Tullo, the Queen’s Printer for Scotland.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>n2rq1rjxxvm4buj4dswsfeh0q4urwwd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133465</id>
      <parentid>15133464</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T05:47:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ToxicPea</username>
        <id>3146019</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133465</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2125" sha1="16w04rxla5t28c8gf10e9rmqt1zb3rw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;4&quot; user=&quot;ToxicPea&quot; /&gt;{{rh|''Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010 (asp 7)''||1}}
{{rule}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|[[File:Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom (Scotland) B&amp;W.png|150px]]}}

{{Center|{{xx-larger|Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010}}}}   
{{Center|{{larger|'''2010 asp 7'''}}}}

'''The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 3rd March 2010 and received Royal Assent on 9th April 2010'''

An Act of the Scottish Parliament to transfer the property, rights, interests and liabilities of the Ure Elder Fund for Indigent Widow Ladies to a successor charitable trust; and for connected purposes.

{{Anchor|1.0}}'''1{{gap}}Transfer of property etc.'''
:{{Anchor|1.1}}(1) All property, rights, interests and liabilities of the transferor are transferred to and vest in the transferee.
:{{Anchor|1.2}}(2) Any legal proceedings, applications to any authority or other proceedings for the resolution of a dispute by or against the transferor which are pending or current immediately before this Act comes into force may be continued by or against the transferee.

{{Anchor|2.0}}'''2{{gap}}Dissolution and repeal'''
:{{Anchor|2.1}}(1) The transferor is dissolved.
:{{Anchor|2.2}}(2) The [[Ure Elder Fund Order Confirmation Act 1906]] is repealed.

{{Anchor|3.0}}'''3{{gap}}Interpretation''' 
:In this Act— 
::“transferee” means the Ure Elder Trust established by Deed of Trust dated 26 August 2009 and subsequently registered in the Books of Council and Session; 
::“transferor” means the Ure Elder Fund for Indigent Widow Ladies incorporated by Act of Parliament under and by virtue of the [[Ure Elder Fund Order Confirmation Act 1906]].

{{Anchor|4.0}}'''4{{gap}}Short title and commencement'''
:{{Anchor|4.1}}(1) This Act may be cited as the Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010.
:{{Anchor|4.2}}(2) This Act comes into force two months after it has received Royal Assent.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule}}
{{smaller|© Crown Copyright 2010&lt;br&gt;Printed in the UK by The Stationery Office Limited under the authority and superintendence of Carol Tullo, the Queen’s Printer for Scotland.}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>16w04rxla5t28c8gf10e9rmqt1zb3rw</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847769</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132684</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:21:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Penguin1737</username>
        <id>3062038</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Added ASP 2010-7</comment>
      <origin>15132684</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="532" sha1="5w7s0qp3xmk0i3lhsb60p41ih729kw6" xml:space="preserve">{{header
 | title       = Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010
 | author      = Scottish Parliament | author-nolink = true
 | translator  = 
 | section     = 
 | previous    = 
 | next        = 
 | year        = 2010 | noyear = yes
 | notes       = '''Date of Commencement:''' 23 April 2010&lt;br&gt;{{UK Legislation link}}
 | portal      = Acts of the Scottish Parliament
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Act 2010 (ASP 2010-7 qp).pdf&quot; from=&quot;1&quot;/&gt;

{{OGL3}}
[[Category:Acts of the Scottish Parliament]]</text>
      <sha1>5w7s0qp3xmk0i3lhsb60p41ih729kw6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/841</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847770</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132715</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:37:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;It so happened that Père Piquedent, instead of talking Latin to me, as he did  when teaching publicly in the Institution, kept telling about his troubles in French. Without relations, without  friends, the poor man conceived an attachment for me, and poured out into my heart his own misery.   He had never for the last ten or fifteen years chatted confidentially with anyone.   &quot;I am like an oak in a desert,&quot; he said — &quot;''sicut quercus in solitudine.''&quot;...</comment>
      <origin>15132715</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3081" sha1="3gsk0gezi74mxgapwrw8etqf2de0ko4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||THE QUESTION OF LATIN|807}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;It so happened that Père Piquedent, instead of talking Latin to me, as he did 
when teaching publicly in the Institution, kept telling about his troubles in French. Without relations, without 
friends, the poor man conceived an attachment for me, and poured out into my heart his own misery. 

He had never for the last ten or fifteen years chatted confidentially with anyone. 

&quot;I am like an oak in a desert,&quot; he said — &quot;''sicut quercus in solitudine.''&quot; 

The other ushers disgusted him. He knew nobody in the town since he had 
no liberty for the purpose of making acquaintances. 

&quot;Not even the nights, my friend, and that is the hardest thing on me. The dream of my life is to have a room of 
my own with furniture, my own books, little things that belonged to myself and which others could not touch. And 
I have nothing of my own, nothing except my shirt and my frock-coat, nothing, not even my mattress and my pillow! 
I have not four walls to shut myself up in, except when I come to give a lesson in this room. Do you see what 
this means — a man forced to spend his life without ever having the right, without ever finding the time to shut himself up all alone, no matter where, to think, to reflect, to work, to dream? Ah! my dear boy, a key, the key of a door which one can open — this is happiness, mark you, the only happiness! 

&quot;Here, all day long, the study with all those dirty brats jumping about in it, and during the night the dormitory with the same dirty brats snoring. And I have to sleep in the public bed at the end of two rows of beds occupied by these brats whom I must look after. I can never be alone, never! If I go out, I find the street full of people, and, when I am tired of walking, I go into some ''café'' crowded with smokers and billiard players. I tell you that it is a regular prison.&quot; 

I asked him: 

&quot;Why did you not take up some other line, Monsieur Piquedent?&quot; 

He exclaimed: 

&quot;What, my little friend? I am not a bootmaker or a joiner or a hatter or a baker or a hairdresser I only know 
Latin, and I have not the diploma which would enable me to sell my knowledge at a high price. If I were a doctor, I 
would sell for a hundred francs, what I now sell for a hundred sous; and I would supply it probably of an inferior 
quality, for my academic rank would be enough to sustain my reputation.&quot; 

Sometimes, he would say to me: 

&quot;I have no rest in life except in the hours spent with you. Don't be afraid! 
you'll lose nothing by that. I'll make it up to you in the study by teaching 
you to speak twice as much Latin as the others.&quot; 

One day, I grew bolder and offered him a cigarette. He stared at me with 
astonishment at first, then he gave a glance toward the door: 

&quot;If anyone were to come in, my dear boy!&quot; 

&quot;Well, let us smoke at the window,&quot; said I. 

And we went and leaned with our elbows on the window-sill facing the street, keeping our hands over the little 
rolls of tobacco wrapped up in tissue-paper so that they concealed them from view like a shell. Just opposite to us&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3gsk0gezi74mxgapwrw8etqf2de0ko4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15132735</id>
      <parentid>15132715</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:45:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15132735</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3079" sha1="gpl2n7xbney5h1qlp1qi2saovgbmivo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh||THE QUESTION OF LATIN|807}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;It so happened that Père Piquedent, instead of talking Latin to me, as he did 
when teaching publicly in the Institution, kept telling about his troubles in French. Without relations, without 
friends, the poor man conceived an attachment for me, and poured out into my heart his own misery. 

He had never for the last ten or fifteen years chatted confidentially with anyone. 

&quot;I am like an oak in a desert,&quot; he said — &quot;''sicut quercus in solitudine.''&quot; 

The other ushers disgusted him. He knew nobody in the town since he had 
no liberty for the purpose of making acquaintances. 

&quot;Not even the nights, my friend, and that is the hardest thing on me. The dream of my life is to have a room of 
my own with furniture, my own books, little things that belonged to myself and which others could not touch. And 
I have nothing of my own, nothing except my shirt and my frock-coat, nothing, not even my mattress and my pillow! 
I have not four walls to shut myself up in, except when I come to give a lesson in this room. Do you see what 
this means — a man forced to spend his life without ever having the right, without ever finding the time to shut himself up all alone, no matter where, to think, to reflect, to work, to dream? Ah! my dear boy, a key, the key of a door which one can open — this is happiness, mark you, the only happiness! 

&quot;Here, all day long, the study with all those dirty brats jumping about in it, and during the night the dormitory with the same dirty brats snoring. And I have to sleep in the public bed at the end of two rows of beds occupied by these brats whom I must look after. I can never be alone, never! If I go out, I find the street full of people, and, when I am tired of walking, I go into some ''café'' crowded with smokers and billiard players. I tell you that it is a regular prison.&quot; 

I asked him: 

&quot;Why did you not take up some other line, Monsieur Piquedent?&quot; 

He exclaimed: 

&quot;What, my little friend? I am not a bootmaker or a joiner or a hatter or a baker or a hairdresser I only know 
Latin, and I have not the diploma which would enable me to sell my knowledge at a high price. If I were a doctor, I 
would sell for a hundred francs, what I now sell for a hundred sous; and I would supply it probably of an inferior 
quality, for my academic rank would be enough to sustain my reputation.&quot; 

Sometimes, he would say to me: 

&quot;I have no rest in life except in the hours spent with you. Don't be afraid! you'll lose nothing by that. I'll make it up to you in the study by teaching you to speak twice as much Latin as the others.&quot; 

One day, I grew bolder and offered him a cigarette. He stared at me with 
astonishment at first, then he gave a glance toward the door: 

&quot;If anyone were to come in, my dear boy!&quot; 

&quot;Well, let us smoke at the window,&quot; said I. 

And we went and leaned with our elbows on the window-sill facing the street, keeping our hands over the little 
rolls of tobacco wrapped up in tissue-paper so that they concealed them from view like a shell. Just opposite to us&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gpl2n7xbney5h1qlp1qi2saovgbmivo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Arnbeeby</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>4847771</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132744</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:48:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>welcome</comment>
      <origin>15132744</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="109" sha1="tjp7tnyw6588imxp8571852gapxcact" xml:space="preserve">{{welcome}} [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 01:48, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tjp7tnyw6588imxp8571852gapxcact</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Esperanto Teacher.pdf/169</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847772</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132746</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:48:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;'''heavy''', peza.  '''hedge''', plektobarilo, '''-hog,''' erinaco,  '''heir''', heredanto.  '''hell''', infero.  '''helm''', direktilo.  '''helmet''', kasko.  '''hem''', borderi.  '''hemp''', kanabo.  '''herald''', heroldo.  '''heresy''', herezo.  '''hermit''', ermito.  '''hero''', heroo.  '''heron''', ardeo.  '''herring''', haringo.  '''hesitate''', ŝanceliĝi, heziti.  '''hiccough''', singulti.  '''hide''', kaŝi; felo.  '''hinge''', ĉarniro.  '''hip'''...</comment>
      <origin>15132746</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1752" sha1="8pxxnll5qd9m89iwbx34fdf9smh72bq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{c|146}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''heavy''', peza.

'''hedge''', plektobarilo, '''-hog,''' erinaco,

'''heir''', heredanto.

'''hell''', infero.

'''helm''', direktilo.

'''helmet''', kasko.

'''hem''', borderi.

'''hemp''', kanabo.

'''herald''', heroldo.

'''heresy''', herezo.

'''hermit''', ermito.

'''hero''', heroo.

'''heron''', ardeo.

'''herring''', haringo.

'''hesitate''', ŝanceliĝi, heziti.

'''hiccough''', singulti.

'''hide''', kaŝi; felo.

'''hinge''', ĉarniro.

'''hip''', kokso.

'''hire''', dungi; lui; pago.


hiss, sibli
hit, frapi.
hoard, amaso.
hoar frost, prujno
hoax, mistifik’o, -i.
hole, truo, kavo
holiday, testo, libertempo.
hollow, kav’a, -o.
holly, ilekso. .
honey, miclo, -comb, miel-
tavolo, suckle, lunicero.
hood, kapuco, kuto.
‘hook, hoko, agrafo; alkroéi.
hope, espero.
hops, lnpolo,
horizon, horizonto.
horn, korno,
hospitable, gastama.
hospital, hospitalo.
host, mustro ;
hostio,
hostage, garantiulo.
hotel, hutelo.


gastiganto ;

hover, flirti.

hub, radcentro, akso.

hue, nuanco, koloro.

hum, zumi.

human, homa. -being, homo.
humane, humana.

- humble, humila.

humbug, blago.

humming-bird, kolibro.

humorous, humoraja,
serca.

hump, gibo.

sprita

. hunger, malsato.

hunt, éasi.

hurrah, hura.
hurricane, uragano.
hurt, vundi, malutili.
husk, Selo.

hut, kabano.

hymn, himno.

hyphen, streketo.
hypocritical, hipokrita.

ideal, ideala.

identical, identa.

idiom, idiomo, idiotismo.
idiotic, idiota.

idle, senokupa.

idol, idolo.

illegitimate, nelatlega, bastarda
illuminate, slumini.

illusion, iluzio.

illustrate, ilustri.

image, figuro, bildo.
imagine, imagi, revi.
imbibe, ensorbi.

imbue, penetri, inspiri.
imitate, imiti.

immediately, tuj.

imminent, surpenda, minaca.
impassive, stuika, kvietega.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8pxxnll5qd9m89iwbx34fdf9smh72bq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Complete Short Stories of Guy de Maupassant.djvu/840</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847773</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132771</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T01:52:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alautar98</username>
        <id>3088622</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|{{larger|''The Question of Latin''}}}}  {{sc|This}} question of Latin, with which we were so much bothered some time  since, recalls to my mind a story — a story of my youth.   I was finishing my studies with a teacher, in a big central town, at the Institution Robineau, celebrated through  the entire province owing to the special attention paid there to Latin studies.   For the past ten years, the Institution Robineau beat at every competitive exami...</comment>
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      <text bytes="3197" sha1="9yy4flqacdyqqjn15smsfi7p0np5330" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Alautar98&quot; /&gt;{{rh|806|WORKS OF GUY DE MAUPASSANT|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{larger|''The Question of Latin''}}}}

{{sc|This}} question of Latin, with which we were so much bothered some time 
since, recalls to my mind a story — a story of my youth. 

I was finishing my studies with a teacher, in a big central town, at the Institution Robineau, celebrated through 
the entire province owing to the special attention paid there to Latin studies. 

For the past ten years, the Institution Robineau beat at every competitive examination the Imperial &quot;lycée&quot; of 
the town, and all the colleges of the Subprefecture; and these constant successes were due, they said, to an usher, 
a simple usher, M. Piquedent, or rather Père Piquedent. 

He was one of those middle-aged men, quite gray, whose real age it is impossible to know, and whose history we 
can guess at first glance. Having entered as an usher at twenty into the first institution that presented itself so 
that he could proceed to take out his degree of Doctor of Laws, he found 
himself so much enmeshed in this sinister life that he remained as usher all his life. But his love for Latin did 
not leave him, but harassed him like an unhealthy passion. He continued to read the poets, the prose-writers, the 
historians, to interpret them, to study their meaning, to comment on them with a perseverance bordering on madness. 

One day, the idea came into his head to force all the students of his class to answer him in Latin only; and he 
persisted in this resolution until at last they were capable of sustaining an entire conversation with him just as they would in their mother-tongue. He listened to them, as a leader of an orchestra listens to his musicians rehearsing, and, striking his desk every moment with his ruler, he exclaimed: 

&quot;Monsieur Lefrère, Monsieur Lefrère, you are committing a solecism! You are not recalling the rule to mind. 

&quot;Monsieur Plantel, your turn of phrase is altogether French and in no 
way Latin. You must understand the genius of a language. Look here, listen to me.&quot; 

Now it came to pass that the pupils 
of the Institution Robineau carried off, 
at the end of the year, all the prizes for 
composition, translation, and Latin con- 
versation. 

Next year, the principal, a little man, 
as cunning as an ape, and with the same 
grinning and grotesque physique, got 
printed on his programmes, on his ad- 
vertisements, and painted on the door 
of his institution: 

&quot;Latin Studies a Specialty. Five first 
prizes carried off in the five classes of 
the lycee. 

&quot;Two prizes of honor at the genera' 
Competitive Examinations with all the 
lycees and colleges of France.&quot; 

For ten years the Institution Robin- 
eau triumphed in the same fashion. 
Now, my father, allured by these suc- 
cesses, sent my as a day-pupil to 
Robineau's — or, as we called it, Robin- . 
etto or Robinettino — and made me take 
special private lessons from Pere 
Piquedent at the rate of five francs per 
hour, out of which the usher got two 
francs and the principal three trancs. 
I was at the time in my eighteenth year, 
and was in the philosophy class. 

These private lessons were given in 
a little room looking out on the street 

306&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{sc|This}} question of Latin, with which we were so much bothered some time 
since, recalls to my mind a story — a story of my youth. 

I was finishing my studies with a teacher, in a big central town, at the Institution Robineau, celebrated through 
the entire province owing to the special attention paid there to Latin studies. 

For the past ten years, the Institution Robineau beat at every competitive examination the Imperial &quot;lycée&quot; of 
the town, and all the colleges of the Subprefecture; and these constant successes were due, they said, to an usher, 
a simple usher, M. Piquedent, or rather Père Piquedent. 

He was one of those middle-aged men, quite gray, whose real age it is impossible to know, and whose history we 
can guess at first glance. Having entered as an usher at twenty into the first institution that presented itself so 
that he could proceed to take out his degree of Doctor of Laws, he found 
himself so much enmeshed in this sinister life that he remained as usher all his life. But his love for Latin did 
not leave him, but harassed him like an unhealthy passion. He continued to read the poets, the prose-writers, the 
historians, to interpret them, to study their meaning, to comment on them with a perseverance bordering on madness. 

One day, the idea came into his head to force all the students of his class to answer him in Latin only; and he 
persisted in this resolution until at last they were capable of sustaining an entire conversation with him just as they would in their mother-tongue. He listened to them, as a leader of an orchestra listens to his musicians rehearsing, and, striking his desk every moment with his ruler, he exclaimed: 

&quot;Monsieur Lefrère, Monsieur Lefrère, you are committing a solecism! You are not recalling the rule to mind. 

&quot;Monsieur Plantel, your turn of phrase is altogether French and in no 
way Latin. You must understand the genius of a language. Look here, listen to me.&quot; 

Now it came to pass that the pupils of the Institution Robineau carried off, 
at the end of the year, all the prizes for composition, translation, and Latin conversation. 

Next year, the principal, a little man, as cunning as an ape, and with the same grinning and grotesque physique, got 
printed on his programmes, on his advertisements, and painted on the door of his institution: 

&quot;Latin Studies a Specialty. Five first prizes carried off in the five classes of the lycée. 

&quot;Two prizes of honor at the general Competitive Examinations with all the lycées and colleges of France.&quot; 

For ten years the Institution Robin- 
eau triumphed in the same fashion. 
Now, my father, allured by these suc- 
cesses, sent my as a day-pupil to 
Robineau's — or, as we called it, Robin- . 
etto or Robinettino — and made me take 
special private lessons from Pere 
Piquedent at the rate of five francs per 
hour, out of which the usher got two 
francs and the principal three trancs. 
I was at the time in my eighteenth year, 
and was in the philosophy class. 

These private lessons were given in a little room looking out on the street&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|806}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/29</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="2258" sha1="s65y0yzgmti2668rt76yo9033w6gw9t" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{x-larger|TRANSACTIONS}}

{{smaller|OF THE}}

{{x-larger|NEW ZEALAND INSTITUTE}}

{{sp|1882.}}


{{rule|5em}}

{{larger|I.—ZOOLOGY.}}}}

{{rule|5em}}


&lt;section begin=Art1 /&gt;{{c|{{sc|Art.}} I.—''Descriptions of New Zealand'' Micro-Lepidoptera.

By [[Author:Edward Meyrick|{{sc|E. Meyrick}}]], B.A.

{{fine block|[''Read before the Philosophical Institute of Canterbury'', 4''th May'', 1882.]}}}}

{{sc|The}} present paper is the first of a series, which I hope to publish from time to time, describing the whole of the ''Micro-Lepidoptera'' of New Zealand; including under that term the ''Pyralidina, Pterophorina, Tortricina'' and ''Tineina''. My intention is to take a family at a time, and monograph it as completely as is at present possible, prefacing each with some general remarks on its classsification and affinities, and the inferences which may be drawn from its distribution with relation to New Zealand. For the sake of convenience and expedition, I shall not take the families in their natural order, but according as for various reasons they are easiest treated.

The most essential character for classification is the neuration, and it is absolutely necessary that this should be investigated for the accurate determination of genera. It is not, however, by any means always necessary that a specimen should be denuded of scales for the purpose; with the aid of a lens the veins can generally be made out by inspection of the undersurface of the wing, where they are more prominent, especially if one has previously examined types of the principal groups and learnt what to look for. The terminology employed hereafter is that generally in use on the Continent of Europe, and from its simplicity and adaptability is far superior to the awkward and confusing nomenclature sometimes adopted. The veins are all numbered, starting from the one nearest the inner margin, and ending with the one nearest the costa. Typically, there are in the forewings twelve veins, 1 and 12 being free, and the other ten springing from the margins of a central cell, consisting of an upper, lower and hind-margin, often called the sub-costal, median (or upper and lower median), and transverse veins; sometimes there is a partition-vein in the upper part&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/30</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847775</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132811</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:09:07Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <text bytes="3156" sha1="rmi4fzzjcqyh0dj6fwb5jptrntsue8y" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;{{running header|left=4|center=''Transactions.—Zoology.''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;of the cell, forming a secondary cell; there are, also, two free false veins, often obsolete, one on each side of vein 1, known as 1''a'' and ''1''b. The structure of the hindwings is the same, except that there are only six veins rising from the cell, or eight altogether. Any two veins may coincide partially, when they appear to rise from a common stalk; or wholly, when their number appears diminished. In the lowest groups of the ''Tineina'' the venation is commonly very incomplete, without any distinct cell. The other points of structure to be especially noted are the form of the labial palpi, the absence or development of the maxillary palpi, the antennæ, the scaling of the head (in the ''Tineina''), and some minor details. The legs and abdomen very rarely afford any characters worthy of notice. It must, also, be especially borne in mind that the form of the wings is in general almost valueless for generic distinction and should never be relied on; but exception may be made in the hindwings of some of the ''Tineina'', which from their great diversity often furnish serviceable points of distinction. The measurements in the following descriptions are given in millimetres (for practical purposes, 25 = 1 inch), which have the advantage of being comprehensible without confusion in all countries, and are now -very commonly adopted.

Little need be said of what has been hitherto done in the investigation of the ''Micro-Lepidoptera'' of New Zealand. [[Author:Edward Doubleday|Doubleday]] and [[Author:Philipp Christoph Zeller|Zeller]] have incidentally described a very few, only about a dozen altogether; their descriptions are excellent and all easily recognizable. I am indebted to Prof. Zeller for sending me his original figures of the New Zealand species of ''Crambus'' described by him, to ensure their accurate determination. [[Author:Rudolf Felder|Felder]] has figured a small number of species, but as his figures are commonly poor and hard to identify, and his classification wholly conjectural, it would have been better if he had left them alone. [[Author:Francis Walker|Walker]], in his British Museum Catalogue, has described a good many; but his work, as I have elsewhere sufficiently pointed out, is useless for scientific purposes. His descriptions are strictly, almost always quite, unidentifiable; but I have adopted his specific names from a comparison of the types, when it appeared that the specimens standing as types are really those intended by the description, and when the types are, also, themselves recognizable, which is by no means always the case. But as genera are not realities but abstractions, I have conceived it to be impossible to adopt his generic titles, unless the characters given really indicate the distinctive points of the genus, which hardly ever happens. Latterly Mr. [[Author:Arthur Gardiner Butler|A. G. Butler]], of the British Museum, has turned his attention to these groups, but, I grieve to say, with most unsatisfactory results. For example, as I have pointed out hereafter, he has described three typical species of&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;&lt;includeonly&gt;&lt;!--  --&gt;&lt;templatestyles src=&quot;TOC templates/styles.css&quot; /&gt;&lt;!--  --&gt; |- class=&quot;__toc_row_1-1-m-1 wst-toc-row-1-l-1-1 {{{class|}}}&quot; |{{{1|}}} |style=&quot;text-align:left;&quot;|{{{2|}}} |{{{3|}}} |{{{4|}}}&lt;/includeonly&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt; {{documentation|Template:TOC templates/doc}} &lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;</comment>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/31</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847777</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132828</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:16:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="3179" sha1="618g38u6mc47sg5uiyvvzw0gld0nihr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|Meyrick.}}–''On New Zealand'' Micro-Lepidoptera.|right=5}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''Crambus'' and referred them separately to the ''Galleridæ, Phycidæ'', and ''Chilonidæ'', three groups which do not even, so far as is known, occur in New Zealand at all. In the same paper he has described the sexes of one of the ''Tortricina'' as two distinct species, and placed them in two distinct genera in different families, when in fact the species was not in the least allied to either of those genera, and the sexes, though slightly differing in appearance, are precisely identical in structure. I could multiply instances, but they will be referred to in their proper place, and I desire now only to point out clearly that Mr. Butler's authority on these groups is as unreliable as that of Walker.

The ''Crambidæ'', which form the subject of the present paper, are represented in New Zealand, so far as is at present known, by 29 species, of which 16 are here described for the first time. The character of this fauna is very interesting. Seventeen species, or more than half, belong to the genus ''Crambus;'' this cosmopolitan genus is nearly equally plentiful throughout the world, but it is very remarkable that it is almost entirely absent from Australia, whence are known only two species, of which certainly one, and perhaps both, do not belong to the indigenous fauna, and neither is related to the New Zealand species. These latter form a single connected group, diverging from a common centre, which appears to be ''C. vittellus'', the commonest and most variable species of the group, and very similar to some European forms. From the unity of the group, and its connection with the rest of the genus at one point only, it is natural to infer its common origin; but it seems hardly probable that this origin should have been by way of Australia, or representatives would have been found there, as they are universally elsewhere. Nine species belong to the peculiar and very distinct genus ''Diptychophora;'' besides these there are as yet only four other species of the genus known, three being from South America, and the fourth from Australia. The South American species are nearly allied to most of those inhabiting New Zealand, so that we have here another very clear illustration of the affinity between the fauna of South America and that of New Zealand, which is indicated in several other groups of animals and plants. Not much stress can be laid on the single Australian species, though it is of a rather peculiar type, differing markedly from any other. The remaining three species of the family are referable to three different genera, one of these being ''Thinasotia'', very largely represented in Australia; the New Zealand species is very distinct, yet perceptibly allied to a Tasmanian species. The other two genera are endemic, and apparently form transitional links between ''Thinasotia'' and ''Diptychophora'', so that they may perhaps be regarded as approaching in character the common progenitors of these two very distinct genera. In connection with the above may be noticed the entire absence of the large nearly-allied family of the ''Phycidæ'', which occur&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/32</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847778</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132853</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:28:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <text bytes="2876" sha1="jm57k7y289vje29ww34u1wa6ac1khjj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;{{rh|6|''Transactions.—Zoology.''|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;in tolerable plenty throughout the whole world, the Australian species being numerous and in the main very similar to those found elsewhere. The ''Galleridæ'', a small family of world-wide distribution, are also not found, and the cosmopolitan genera ''Schœnobius, Scirpophaga, Chilo'', and ''Prionopteryx'', are similarly remarkable by their absence.

The above remarks are not intended to express final conclusions, but only to call attention to inferences which seem fairly deducible from the facts known, as a means to the rational classification of the group.

I desire to acknowledge my great indebtedness in the preparation of these papers to Mr. [[Author:Richard William Fereday|Fereday]], whose very valuable and extensive collection has been freely placed at my disposal in the interests of science; without his assistance it would have been impossible for me to have treated the subject with any degree of completeness.


{{c|{{larger|CRAMBIDÆ.}}}}

Labial palpi porrected, generally long. Maxillary palpi triangular, porrected, conspicuous. Forewings with 12 veins (rarely fewer, but not in New Zealand genera), vein 1 simple, 8 and 9 stalked, 7 sometimes from same stalk. Hindwings with 8 veins (rarely 7, but not in New Zealand genera), 4 and 5 often stalked, 7 and 8 stalked, lower median vein pectinated at base.

In the absence of the ''Phycidæ'', this family is not likely to be confused with any other in New Zealand, except with the group of ''Scoparia'' and its allies; some of these latter approach nearly to ''Crambus'' in superficial appearance, but may be invariably recognised by the absence of the basal pecten, or fringe of hairs, on the upper surface of the lower median vein of the hindwings. Care must be taken to note the right vein, as the other veins often bear basal pectinations which are not of the same importance.

Five genera are represented in New Zealand, which may be thus distinguished:

{| {{ts|ma}}
|A. vein 7 of forewings separate.
|-
|{{gap}}{{fsp}}I. vein 11 of forewings coalescing with 12 before costa||4. ''Diptychophora.''
|-
|{{gap}}II.{{ditto|vein}} {{ditto|11 of}} {{ditto|forewings}} separate.
|-
|{{gap|3em}}''a.'' forewings with raised tufts of scales on surface||2. ''Cryptomima.''
|-
|{{gap|3em}}''b.'' {{ditto|forewings}} smooth.
|-
|{{gap|4em}}1. female with abbreviated wings||3. ''Scenoploca.''
|-
|{{gap|4em}}2. {{ditto|female}} fully developed||1. ''Thinasotia.''
|-
|B. {{ditto|vein}} {{ditto|7 of}} {{ditto|forewings}} rising out of stalk of 8 and 9||5. ''Crambus.''
|}


{{c|1. {{sc|Thinasotia}}, [[Author:Jacob Hübner|Hb.]]}}

Antennæ of male finely ciliated. Labial palpi long, attenuated. Forewings with 12 veins, 8 and 9 stalked. Hindwings with 8 veins, 4 and 5 stalked or from a point, 6 widely remote at origin from 7, 7 and 8 stalked, cell closed.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/33</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847779</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132864</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:32:47Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2857" sha1="0bepbclvqtuynyuj8k0kh2demurkhs4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;This genus is largely represented in Australia, but very little elsewhere; I have only one New Zealand species. None of the larvæ are known, but from the habits of the imago there can be no doubt that they feed on grasses, probably amongst the roots. The imagos are commonly large and handsomely marked, but the New Zealand species is one of the dullest in colouring.


{{c|1. ''Thin. leucophthalma'', n. sp.}}

''Male, female.''—19–23 mm. Head light greyish-ochreous, sometimes fuscous-tinged. Palpi light greyish-ochreous, strongly mixed with blackish-fuscous, labial palpi very long. Antennæ greyish-fuscous. Thorax light greyish-ochreous, more or less strongly mixed with blackish-fuscous. Abdomen whitish-ochreous, suffusedly irrorated with dark fuscous. Legs whitish-ochreous, irrorated with dark fuscous; anterior and middle tibiæ and tarsi suffused with blackish except at apex of joints, posterior tarsi dark fuscous towards base of joints. Forewings moderately broad, triangular, costa very slightly arched, somewhat bent before apex, apex obtusely pointed, hindmargin moderately oblique, rather strongly sinuate below apex; ochreous-whitish, when fresh slightly pinkish or purplish-tinged, thickly and coarsely irrorated with dark fuscous, towards inner margin slightly more ochreous-tinged, and towards disc more or less strongly suffused with light ochreous-fuscous; a small irregular black spot on inner margin almost at base, and a similar one below costa almost at base; an irregular sinuate longitudinal black streak, attenuated at extremities, extending almost from base along submedian fold to ⅓ from base; an elongate-ovate black spot in disc rather above and beyond posterior extremity of the sinuate streak, anterior end rather acute; a rather ill-defined dark fuscous transverse line, preceded by a pale line, from costa at ⅗ to middle of inner margin, most distinct on costal half, twice dentate beneath costa, bent round posterior extremity of the black spot, and again twice dentate above inner margin; a short suffused inwardly oblique dark fuscous mark on costa beyond middle; a sharply-defined obliquely transverse elongate white black-margined spot in disc at ⅗, upper part slightly greyish-tinged; a double indistinctly dentate dark fuscous transverse line, enclosing a pale line, from about ⅘ of costa to inner margin a little before anal angle, upper third rather inwardly oblique, lower two-thirds strongly outwards-curved, forming indistinct spots on costa and in middle: cilia ochreous-whitish, with two ill-defined dark grey lines. Hindwings whitish-fuscous-grey, with an indistinct darker band along hindmargin, not extending to anal angle, closely preceded by an indistinct suffused dark line; cilia ochreous-whitish, with a broad fuscous-grey line near base, and a much fainter one posteriorly.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2808" sha1="szgzintwva4s95td0ennlwf41ujtq5b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Nearest to ''T. impletella'', Walk., and ''T. longipalpella'', Meyr., and somewhat intermediate between these two species, but not capable of confusion with them or any other; the black markings towards base are a sufficient distinction.

I have only met with this species in one place on the grassy volcanic hills near Christchurch, where it was sufficiently common in March.


{{c|2. {{sc|Cryptomima}}, n. g.}}

Antennæ of male shortly ciliated. Labial palpi long, attenuated. Forewings broad, surface with tufts of raised scales; with 12 veins, 8 and 9 stalked. Hindwings with 8 veins, 4 and 5 stalked, 6 widely remote at origin from 7, 7 and 8 stalked, cell closed.

Nearly allied to ''Thinasotia'', from which it can only be distinguished by the tufts of scales on the forewings, though in superficial appearance and habit very dissimilar; in these respects it approaches ''Diptychophora'', but differs considerably in venation. The larva probably feeds on moss or lichens. The genus is probably confined to New Zealand; I have only one species.


{{c|1. ''Crypt. acerella'', [[Author:Francis Walker|Walk.]]

{{fine block|(''Gadira acerella'', Walk., Brit. Mus. Cat. Suppl., 1742; ''Botys mahanga'', Feld., Reise der Novara, PI. CXXXVIL, 27.)}}}}

''Male, female.''—17–18½ mm. Head light greyish-ochreous, mixed with white on crown, with a white stripe along anterior margin of eyes. Maxillary palpi pale greyish-ochreous, with a dark fuscous band, apex white. Labial palpi pale greyish-ochreous, mixed on side with dark fuscous, and above and internally with white. Antennæ pale greyish-ochreous. Thorax pale ochreous mixed with dark fuscous, and on back with white. Abdomen ochreous-whitish, suffused with ochreous-fuscous except at apex of segments. Legs dark ochreous-fuscous, middle and posterior tibiæ banded with ochreous-whitish, all tarsi with ochreous-whitish rings at apex of joints. Forewings broad, triangular, costa at first straight, slightly sinuate in middle, strongly arched towards apex, apex obtuse, hindmargin sinuate above and again below middle, moderately oblique; dull ochreous-fuscous, with scattered black scales; veins on basal half of wing marked by white lines; some whitish scales towards basal third of costa; a short suffused white streak along costa beyond middle; a very inwardly oblique white line from costa at ⅜ to submedian fold near base, obliterated on veins, only distinct at extremities; a straight double white line from middle of costa to before middle of inner margin; a blackish 8-shaped mark in disc beyond middle, upper half containing a spot of ground-colour, lower half a clear white spot; a ridge-like tuft of raised scales below middle of disc; a strongly outwards-curved double white line from ¾ of costa to ¾ of inner margin, inner edge&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/35</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847781</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132907</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:54:51Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2729" sha1="2khfubmnlwwa8l2fhi5lycz1a879b3q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;preceded by an obscure whitish suffusion; an irregular dentate suffused white mark at apex; an irregular white line along hindmargin, tending to form a spot in middle, and two confluent spots below middle; hind-marginal edge blackish: cilia greyish-ochreous, more whitish at anal angle, with two suffused darker fuscous lines, and with a white spot above apex. Hindwings whitish-fuscous-grey, with a dark grey spot before middle, a narrow irregular well-defined grey band close before hindmargin, and a sinuate grey line closely preceding band; an interrupted blackish-grey hind-marginal line; cilia grey-whitish, with a grey line near base.

Peculiar in facies, readily known by the two double white transverse lines.

Tolerably common at Christchurch on fences and old walls in January, and I have also taken it at light; occurs also at Dunedin. Mr. R. W. Fereday informs me that the imago has the same habits as ''Dipt. elaina'', whence it is probable that the larva feeds in the same way.


{{c|3. {{sc|Scenoploca}}, n. g.}}

Antennæ of male crenulate, ciliated. Labial palpi moderately long, terminal joint slender, exposed, hairs of second joint produced beneath into an obliquely projecting tuft. Wings in female much abbreviated, incapable of flight. Forewings with 12 veins, 8 and 9 stalked. Hindwings with 8 veins, 4 and 5 from a point, 6 widely remote at origin from 7, 7 and 8 stalked, cell closed.

This genus is nearly allied in venation and other respects to the two preceding, but is distinguished from all by the abbreviated wings of the female; the palpi also afford a noticeable character, for the long projecting hairs of the second joint, instead of being appressed to the terminal joint, are sufficiently depressed to form a very distinct oblique tuft, but some species of ''Thinasotia'' show traces, though less marked, of a similar structure. The larva is of the normal type, and feeds on lichens. Only one species is as yet known to me.


{{c|1. ''Scen. petraula'', n. sp.}}

''Male.''—16½–20 mm. Head grey-whitish, forehead blackish. Palpi blackish, apex of maxillary palpi, and of second and terminal joints of labial palpi, grey-whitish. Antennæ dark fuscous. Thorax grey-whitish, shoulders mixed with blackish, back wholly suffused with blackish. Abdomen ochreous-grey-whitish. Anterior and middle legs black, tarsi with a white ring at base of first three joints, middle tibiæ with a suffused whitish median band; posterior tibiæ grey towards base and at apex whitish, tarsi ochreous-white with a dark grey band on each joint. Forewings triangular, moderate or rather narrow, costa very slightly arched, somewhat more before apex, apex rounded, hindmargin regularly rounded, oblique; white,&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/36</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847782</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132915</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T02:59:07Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2879" sha1="r5udeu2vq5kyu0gcaa4kze4p1cus3dz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;more or less slightly greyish-tinged, closely but irregularly irrorated with blackish; a suffused curved blackish spot extending from inner margin near base to base of costa; an irregular oblique blackish patch in disc at ⅓ from base, extending suffusedly to costa, and suffusedly connected beneath with a small blackish spot on inner margin at ¼, its posterior edge bordered by a pale oblique outwardly curved line from ⅓ of costa to before middle of inner margin, shortly dentate at ⅓ from costa, posteriorily margined by a blackish line, forming a small spot on costa and a rather larger one on inner margin; a small oblique transverse clear white spot in disc beyond middle, surrounded by a blackish suffusion, forming a black spot below middle, and a black spot on costa at ⅗; an indistinct obscurely-dentate pale line, margined on each side indistinctly with blackish, from costa at ⅘ to inner margin before anal angle, somewhat angulated inwards below costa, thence gently curved, anterior black line forming two small confluent black spots towards inner margin, posterior line forming a blackish wedge-shaped spot on costa: cilia ochreous-white, with a regularly-interrupted blackish-grey line towards base, and another towards extremities, costal cilia white, with a blackish-grey spot above last transverse line. Hindwings grey, rather darker posteriorily, with a faintly indicated pale line a little before hindmargin; cilia ochreous-grey-whitish, with two light grey lines.

''Female.''—9½–11½ mm. Forewings very narrow, oblong; hindwings proportionately shorter, rounded; markings as in male, but cramped and obscured.

Superficially the male of this species rather suggests a small dark ''Thin. leucophthalma'', especially by the similarity of the white discal spot, but the black basal markings of the latter species afford a ready distinction.

I found this species plentifully, sitting on the face of the bare volcanic rock which projects in many places from the soil of the hills near Christchurch; it was reluctant to take wing, perhaps owing to the prevalence of high winds. The female, when disturbed, ran with considerable activity, but was quite incapable of flying.

Larva moderately stout, cylindrical, wrinkled, very sluggish; rather dark greyish-fuscous on back, much lighter on sides; spots minute, blackish, obscure; head fuscous. Feeds beneath a light shelter of silk on lichen-dust on rocks, living in a crevice, and issuing forth beneath its shelter to feed. I found the imago in fresh condition in March, and at the same time I discovered the larva in all stages, so that there is probably a succession of broods.


{{c|4. {{sc|Diptychophora}}, [[Author:Philipp Christoph Zeller|Z.]]}}

Antennæ of male very finely ciliated. Labial palpi rather short, somewhat triangular. Forewings with hindmargin twice indented on upper half;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/37</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847783</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132938</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:09:25Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2873" sha1="4ks2nhby1abhkuz5vm1aq66tjsy3w1h" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;with 12 veins, 8 and 9 stalked, 11 coalescing with 12, before costa. Hindwings with 8 veins, 5 from above angle of cell, 6 moderately approximated to 7, 7 and 8 stalked, cell closed.

A very distinctly characterized genus, of the general type of ''Thinasotia'', but with vein 11 of the forewings running into 12 before reaching costa, vein 5 of the hindwings rising from the transverse vein above the angle of cell, and the hindmargin of forewings twice indented above middle. The venation of all the New Zealand species is perfectly constant. Three species have been described from South America, and one from Australia; nine are here given, so that the genus apparently reaches its maximum of development in New Zealand. The species are all rather small insects, with broadly triangular forewings, generally rather elegantly marked, the markings consisting typically of two slender transverse lines, a white or metallic discal spot, and generally three black spots on lower part of hind margin. The larva feeds in moss. The imagos are often overlooked, and probably many more will be discovered.

The species here described may be thus distinguished:—

{| {{ts|ma}}
|A. Discal spot obsolete||1. ''pyrsophanes.''
|-
|B. {{ditto|Discal}} {{ditto|spot}} distinct
|-
|{{gap}}1. Discal spot black||9. ''elaina.''
|-
|{{gap}}2. {{ditto|Discal}} {{ditto|spot}} wholly white
|-
|{{gap|3em}}''a.'' Hindwings dark fuscous||8. ''helioctypa.''
|-
|{{gap|3em}}''b.'' {{ditto|Hindwings}} grey or white
|-
|{{gap|4em}}{{fsp}}i. Discal spot with three projecting teeth||3. ''astrosema.''
|-
|{{gap|4em}}ii. {{ditto|Discal}} {{ditto|spot}} {{ditto|with}} one projecting tooth
|-
|{{gap|5em}}{{fsp}}{{*}} Hindwings grey||4. ''lepidella.''
|-
|{{gap|5em}}{{*}}* {{ditto|Hindwings}} clear white||5. ''leucoxantha.''
|-
|{{gap}}3. Discal spot more or less leaden-metallic
|-
|{{gap|3em}}''a.'' Hindwings white||6. ''metallifera.''
|-
|{{gap|3em}}''b.'' {{ditto|Hindwings}} grey
|-
|{{gap|4em}}{{fsp}}i. First transverse line strongly dentate above inner margin{{em}}||2. ''chrysochyta.''
|-
|{{gap|4em}}ii. {{ditto|First}} {{ditto|transverse}} {{ditto|line}} regularly curved||7. ''auriscriptella.''
|}


{{c|1. ''Dipt. pyrsophanes'', n. sp.}}

''Male, female.''—13½–16 mm. Head ochreous or brownish-ochreous. Palpi light yellowish-ochreous, externally more brownish. Antennæ dark fuscous. Thorax rather dark purplish-fuscous. Abdomen dark purplish-fuscous, with a light yellowish ring near base. Legs clear whitish-ochreous. Forewings triangular, very broad posteriorly, costa very gently arched, apex rounded, hindmargin oblique, indentations moderately deep; ochreous-brown, almost wholly suffused with dark purplish-fuscous except narrowly along hindmargin and more broadly at apex and anal angle, and finely irrorated with grey, especially towards costa and disc beyond middle; a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>The New International Encyclopædia/Bandage</title>
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        <id>2831151</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{NIE  |previous = Band  |next = Bandai-san  |wikipedia = Bandage  |edition = 1905 }} &lt;pages index=&quot;The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 02.djvu&quot; include=530 onlysection=s2 /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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      <text bytes="185" sha1="ttla3hxnvorw0ji3rdp0xhih0fbtqws" xml:space="preserve">{{NIE
 |previous = Band
 |next = Bandai-san
 |wikipedia = Bandage
 |edition = 1905
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 02.djvu&quot; include=530 onlysection=s2 /&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>The New International Encyclopædia/Bandai-san</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847785</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132950</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:14:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TE(æ)A,ea.</username>
        <id>2831151</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{NIE  |previous = Bandage  |next = Banda Islands  |wikipedia = Mount Bandai  |edition = 1905 }} &lt;pages index=&quot;The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 02.djvu&quot; include=530 onlysection=s3 /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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      <text bytes="196" sha1="37wjm565kknp2ixbp1bbjae7z8qg8rz" xml:space="preserve">{{NIE
 |previous = Bandage
 |next = Banda Islands
 |wikipedia = Mount Bandai
 |edition = 1905
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 02.djvu&quot; include=530 onlysection=s3 /&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/38</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847786</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132952</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:14:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <text bytes="2849" sha1="lr5e52jdnev08rhuvuwe38tsypbxsw2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;very small triangular yellow spot on inner margin at ¼; an equally small rather subquadrate yellow spot on inner margin at ¾, with a pale yellow dot rather above and beyond its apex; a very faintly perceptible darker transverse line from costa at ¼ to first dorsal spot, sharply angulated outwards beneath costa; a suffused darker spot in disc above and beyond middle; a small outwardly oblique triangular pale yellow spot on costa at ¾, sometimes closely preceded by a faint oblique yellowish costal mark; a very small suffused pale yellowish spot on costa before apex; a dark fuscous dot in apex, preceded by a clear white dot; sometimes a white dot on hindmargin in upper indentation; a slender dark fuscous hindmarginal line: cilia whitish ochreous, with a dark grey line near base, on indentations wholly clear white, a dark grey spot at apex, another between indentations, a third above anal angle, a fourth on anal angle. Hindwings fuscous-grey, with a very indistinct darker line posteriorly; a dark fuscous hindmarginal line; cilia grey-whitish, with a grey line near base.

Very distinct through the dark purplish-fuscous suffusion of the forewings, causing the discal spot to be obsolete, and throwing the yellow marginal spots into sharp relief; the spotted cilia also afford a good character.

Common at Wellington in January amongst scrub, and also at Lake Wakatipu; probably widely distributed.

{{c|2. ''Dipt. chrysochyta'', n. sp.}}

''Male.''—11½–12 mm. Head and thorax pale ochreous. Palpi ochreous-yellow, with a dark fuscous spot at base and apical half dark fuscous, internally whitish-ochreous. Antennæ whitish-ochreous. Abdomen whitish-ochreous-grey. Legs pale whitish-ochreous. Forewings triangular, very broad posteriorily, costa very gently arched, apex rounded, hindmargin oblique, sinuations moderately deep; light yellowish-ochreous, apex and hindmargin narrowly suffused with brownish, in one specimen basal half wholly suffused irregularly with brownish; a well-defined double dark fuscous transverse line from costa near base to inner margin before middle, very strongly curved outwards, dentate inwardly a little above inner margin, enclosing a pale line becoming almost clear white on inner margin; an oblique dark fuscous mark on costa beyond middle, giving rise to an indistinctly dentate suffused brown transverse line to middle of inner margin, which it hardly reaches; this line bounds the brown suffusion in the darker specimen; on it, rather above middle, is a small transverse 8-shaped spot, upper half leaden-metallic, lower half clear white; a slender rather irregular dark fuscous transverse line from costa at ⅔ to inner margin at ¾, upper two-thirds very strongly curved outwards, lower half nearly followed by a similar line, diverging a little on inner margin; this line is preceded and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/39</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847787</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132957</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:17:34Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2786" sha1="8h7c0il8n89sqpdalrxv75zbv03gkrs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;followed on costa by a pale yellowish spot, and the space between it and the suffused median line is more distinctly yellow, especially below discal spot; an oblique pale yellowish mark on costa before apex, terminating in a rather metallic white dot; three slender longitudinal leaden-metallic streaks extending from discal spot to hindmargin, lowest one not reaching discal spot; a leaden metallic line within the second double tranverse line from below middle almost to inner margin; three small quadrate black spots on hindmargin near together below middle: cilia violet-metallic-grey, with a deeper basal line. Hindwings grey, with a dark fuscous hindmarginal line: cilia grey-whitish, with an indistinct darker line.

The smaller species of the genus; it is a rather brightly-marked insect, with considerable affinity to ''D. auriscriptella'', but darker, and with the first line strongly dentate beneath.

Two specimens taken at Auckland amongst scrub in January.

{{c|3. ''Dipt. astrosema'', n. sp.}}

Male.—''15–16'' mm. Head white, ochreous-tinged behind. Palpi dark fuscous, internally and beneath white; apex of maxillary palpi white. Antennæ whitish-ochreous. Thorax light ochreous, with a few white scales. Abdomen and legs whitish. Forewings triangular, broad, costa almost straight, somewhat arched towards apex, apex rounded, hindmargin oblique, sinuations moderate; light rather bright ochreous-brown, mixed with darker in disc and towards apex; a small very suffused white spot beneath base of costa; a triangular snow-white blotch in disc towards base, its apex touching base of wing, its sides parallel to costa and inner margin, its base resting on first transverse line; first transverse line slender, dark fuscous, from costa at ⅓ obliquely outwards to upper angle of white blotch, thence sharply bent inwards and continued to inner margin at ⅓; a moderately large oblong snow-white dark-margined spot in disc beyond middle, parallel to hindmargin, its upper extremity sending a rather long sharp tooth towards costa and another towards hindmargin, its lower extremity sending a third towards anal angle; second transverse line from ⅘ of costa to ⅘ of inner margin, slender, almost obsolete, followed on costa by a suffused white triangular spot, beneath which is a small white suffusion on anterior side of line; a small white spot in apex, and a whitish suffusion in anal angle; four rather indistinct leaden-metallic longitudinal lines between discal spot and hindmargin; three small subquadrate black spots near together on hindmargin below middle: cilia shining white, with a blackish-grey line. Hindwings dull whitish, slightly greyish-tinged, with a dark grey hind-marginal line; cilia whitish, with an indistinct grey line near base.
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/40</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847788</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132960</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:20:41Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="2712" sha1="2olc9cg2dfx7r637q1qbkms8jqcgiv7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Very distinct through the peculiar three-toothed discal spot and the white blotch towards base; allied to ''D. lepidella'' and ''D. leucoxantha'', and in respect of the hindwings intermediate.

Three specimens taken by Mr. R. W. Fereday at Christchurch, Nelson, and Akaroa respectively, in January.

{{c|4. ''Dipt. lepidella'', [[Author:Francis Walker|Walk.]]

{{fine block|(''Eromene lepidella'', Walk., Brit. Mus. Cat. Suppl.; ''Crambus gracilis'', Feld., Reise der Novara, Pl. CXXXVII., 26.)}}}}

''Male, female.''—19½–20½ mm. Head, antennæ and thorax pale ochreous. Palpi dark fuscous, at base white beneath. Abdomen whitish-grey-ochreous. Legs whitish-ochreous. Forewings triangular, broad, costa slightly arched, apex rounded, hindmargin oblique, sinuations moderate; pale yellowish-ochreous; costa somewhat suffused with brownish towards base; a very slender sometimes indistinct dark fuscous transverse line from costa at ⅓ to inner margin before middle, costal third straight, outwardly oblique, thence irregular, rather strongly bent inwards a little above inner margin; a small longitudinally-placed semicircular silvery-white spot in disc beyond middle, its anterior angle shortly and narrowly produced upwards; a short linear dark fuscous mark along middle of costa; a very slender sometimes indistinct dark fuscous transverse line from costa at ⅘ to inner margin at ⅘, suddenly bent outwards beneath costa, thence moderately outwards-curved, lower third sinuate; sometimes a triangular brown patch on costa immediately beyond first transverse line, extending suffusedly to beneath discal spot; a small suffused brown spot on costa a little beyond second transverse line, sometimes giving rise to a brown suffusion extending to beneath discal spot where it meets the first suffusion, but both these are sometimes wholly obsolete; three short linear longitudinal leaden-metallic streaks crossing second transverse line above middle, and three very short similar streaks below middle; a dark fuscous hindmarginal line; three small roundish black spots close together on hindmargin below middle: cilia shining grey, with a dark metallic-grey basal line. Hindwings fuscous-grey, with an indistinct darker posterior line, and a dark fuscous hindmarginal line; cilia grey with a faint darker line.

Most allied to ''D. leucoxantha'', which it resembles in the character of the discal spot, but is immediately known by the duller ground-colour and grey hindwings; in superficial colouring it is very similar to ''D. auriscriptella'', but is considerably larger, and the discal spot is wholly different. The brownish suffusion in this species is very variable, as in ''D. chrysochyta''.
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    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/41</title>
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    <id>4847789</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132968</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:24:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
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      <text bytes="2673" sha1="7gg48l3p6901mbsh4bbyh65ix5qt23c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;I took four specimens at Dunedin at light in January; Mr. R. W. Fereday has met with it at Christchurch and Lake Wakatipu in the same month.

{{c|5. ''Dipt. leucoxantha'', n. sp.}}

''Female.''—19 mm. Head and thorax light orange-ochreous. Palpi ochreous-orange, base, apex and upper surface mixed with dark fuscous. Antennæ whitish-ochreous. Abdomen ochreous-whitish, posteriorly suffused with grey. Legs whitish-ochreous. Forewings triangular, very broad posteriorly, costa very gently arched, apex rounded, hindmargin oblique, sinuations moderate; light ochreous-orange, becoming deeper orange posteriorly, especially towards apex; transverse lines obsolete, second faintly perceptible, slightly darker, sinuate and outwards-curved, from about ¾ of costa to ⅘ of inner margin; a comparatively rather large oval snow-white spot in disc beyond middle, suffusedly margined with dark fuscous, anterior extremity produced upwards into a blunt tooth; a transverse series of eight very short slender longitudinal leaden-metallic streaks on second line, second and third from costa considerably longer than the rest: cilia ochreous-white, with a dark grey spot at apex and another at anal angle, and a deep grey brassy-metallic basal line. Hindwings white, towards hindmargin faintly yellowish-tinged; cilia white.

A very beautiful and distinct species, resembling ''D. lepidella'' in the character of the discal spot, but differing from all in the orange forewings; the clear white hindwings, and absence of the black hindmarginal spots are also reliable points; the obsolescence of the transverse lines is perhaps not constant.

One perfect specimen taken by Mr. R. W. Fereday near Lake Wakatipu in January.

{{c|6. ''Dipt. metallifera'', [[Author:Arthur Gardiner Butler|Butl.]]

{{fine block|(''Eromene metallifera'', Butl., Proc. Zool. Soc., Lond., 1877, 401, P1. XLIII., 11.)}}}}

“19 mm. Allied to ''D. auriscriptella'', but forewings rather brighter in colour, the transverse lines only half as wide apart, the silver discal spot less curved and edged with brown; a series of longitudinal discal silver lines between the veins; hindwings white.”

I saw Butler's type in the British Museum and noted it as a distinct species, but have been unable to obtain a specimen for description. The above is the only description that Butler gives, (I have taken the liberty of altering his terminology), and I consider it hardly accurate. The transverse lines are represented in the figure as in their usual position, and it may be conjectured that Butler has mistaken a central suffused line, which is also represented on dorsal half, for one of the usual two transverse&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/42</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847790</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132979</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:28:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <text bytes="2827" sha1="36nzmclav0a3g09ykvg3yxu8cpeki85" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;lines; the discal spot is edged with brown in ''D. auriscriptella'' also, and is not curved at all in that species, though the posterior edge is concave, and the anterior as well; the series of longitudinal metallic lines is also present in ''D. auriscriptella;'' and I believe the size given is too large. However, the white hindwings and the almost wholly leaden-metallic discal spot constitute in themselves a sufficient distinction.

The specimen is stated to be from Dr. Hector's collection; which I understand to have been mainly taken by Mr. J. D. Enys in the neighbourhood of Mount Hutt.

{{c|7. ''Dipt. auriscriptella'', [[Author:Francis Walker|Walk.]]

{{fine block|(''Eromene auriscriptella'', Walk., Brit. Mus. Cat., 976.)}}}}

''Male, female.''—14–15 mm. Head and thorax light yellowish-ochreous. Palpi rather long, ochreous-orange, base and apical third dark fuscous. Antennæ whitish-ochreous. Abdomen pale ochreous-grey. Legs ochreous-grey-whitish. Forewings triangular, very broad posteriorly, costa gently arched, apex rounded, hindmargin oblique, second sinuation slight; pale yellowish-ochreous, deeper ochreous on disc, and towards apex and hind margin; costa dark fuscous towards base; a slender double dark fuscous transverse line from costa at ⅓ to middle of inner margin, strongly and regularly curved outwards, inner line obsolete on upper half, diverging somewhat on inner margin, enclosing on lower two-thirds a leaden-metallic line, becoming shining whitish on inner margin; a very small dark fuscous spot on middle of costa; a small elongate transverse spot in disc beyond middle, narrowed in middle, upper half leaden-metallic, lower half white; a slender double dark fuscous transverse line from costa at ¾ to inner margin a little before anal angle, rather obsolete on disc, upper two-thirds strongly outward-curved, lower third sinuate, included space indistinctly shining whitish; two longitudinal leaden-metallic streaks between discal spot and hindmargin, nearly reaching both, a much shorter streak below them, and rest of second transverse line spotted with leaden-metallic on intersection of veins; a leaden-metallic dot in apex; three small subquadrate black spots near together on hindmargin below middle: cilia rather dark grey, with a deep grey brassy-metallic basal line. Hindwings grey, with a dark grey hind-marginal line; cilia grey.

Distinguishable from all but ''D. chrysochyta'' by the discal spot, which has the upper half leaden-metallic and the lower white; it is a duller and paler insect than ''D. chrysochyta'', without indentation on the first transverse line. ''Crambus gracilis'', Feld., is not a synonym of this species, as stated by Butler, but of ''D. lepidella''.

Several specimens taken at Wellington and Port Lyttelton in January amongst scrub.
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/43</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847791</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132984</id>
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      <text bytes="2778" sha1="3qta8m07ge1earecrxyu7r0fkk1r58j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|8. ''Dipt. helioctypa'', n. sp.}}

Male, female.—14–15 mm. Head, palpi, and thorax rather dark greyishfuscous mixed with whitish-ochreous, palpi white at base beneath. Antennæ dark fuscous. Abdomen fuscous-grey, irrorated with ochreous towards base, apex whitish-ochreous. Legs grey, posterior pair whitish-grey. Forewings triangular, moderate, not very strongly dilated, costa nearly straight, slightly sinuate in middle, apex rounded, hindmargin oblique, both sinuations slight; very pale whitish-ochreous, almost wholly irregularly suffused with ochreous-fuscous, except an ill-defined patch in disc before first line, another on costa beyoud middle, and a third extending along lower two-thirds of hindmargin; a well-defined slender dark fuscous transverse line from costa at ⅖ to inner margin before middle, hardly curved outwards, thrice rather strongly and irregularly dentate; a second dark fuscous transverse line from costa at ¾ to inner margin a little before anal angle, followed by a pale line of the ground-colour, margined posteriorly by the ochreous-fuscous suffusion, upper half irregularly curved outwards, lower half curved inwards, slightly sinuate above inner margin; a small irregularly oval clear white spot in disc beyond middle, suffusedly connected above with the pale costal patch; three small dark ochreous-fuscous spots near together on hindmargin below middle: cilia ochreous-grey-whitish, with a fuscous line near base, and an ill-defined white spot in each sinuation. Hindwings dark fuscous-grey; cilia grey-whitish, with a dark grey line near base.

A very distinct species, not particularly allied to any other, differing from all in the dark fuscous-grey hindwings, and the slightness of both hindmarginal sinuations; there are no metallic markings.

Taken commonly by Mr. R. W. Fereday, near Lake Wakatipu, in January.

{{c|9. ''Dipt. elaina'', n. sp.}}

Male, female.—12–14 mm. Head, palpi, and thorax ochreous-grey-whitish, irregularly mixed with dark fuscous. Antennæ whitish-grey. Abdomen whitish-grey, apex more whitish. Legs grey-whitish. Forewings triangular, broad, costa very slightly arched, apex rounded, hindmargin rather strongly oblique, second sinuation slight; ochreous-grey-whitish, rather closely irrorated with dark fuscous, and with a slight irregular pale yellowish suffusion, causing a faint greenish tinge; the fuscous irroration is closest and darkest near base, along hindmargin, and on an indistinct median band; a dark fuscous transverse line from ⅓ of costa to ⅖ of inner margin, very slightly outwards-curved, thrice irregularly dentate, preceded by an indistinct pale line; a small black linear transverse spot in disc above and slightly beyond middle, above which is a suffused dark fuscous&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/44</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847792</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15132990</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:35:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
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      <text bytes="2736" sha1="dksi08yvbwkjd84x78npjf5c1fraxtg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;spot on costa; an irregularly dentate dark fuscous transverse line from costa at ⅔ to inner margin at ⅘, followed by a pale line, suddenly bent outwards beneath costa, upper two-thirds rather strongly outwards-curved; a pale oblique mark on costa before apex, and a pale mark on anal angle: cilia grey-whitish, with two dark fuscous lines. Hindwings grey, with a dark grey hindmarginal line; cilia grey-whitish, with a dark grey line towards base.

Very distinct by its small size, grey colouring, and black linear discal spot.

I met with this species at Dunedin, Wellington, and Cambridge, amongst scrub in January. Mr. R. W. Fereday has taken it commonly at Christchurch at rest on old walls, and has furnished me with the following notes on the larva, which he finds in the same position. They are specially interesting, as this is the first larva of the genus which has been discovered.

&quot;The full-grown larva about 9 lines in length, slender, rather flattened, wrinkled, of nearly uniform width, much contracted at the segmental divisions; the ground-colour varying from pale stone to ash-colour; down the middle of the back, on the fifth to the ninth segment inclusive, a series of dark purplish-brown or maroon marks, wedge-shaped, with the point of each wedge cleft, and somewhat resembling a W with the internal space filled up, and having the base of the wedge abutting on the anterior and the cleft end on the posterior extremity of the segment; a cream-coloured tubercular dot at the point of the cleft, and on the base of each dark mark a pair of similar but rather smaller dots; head dark, with a pale longitudinal stripe.

&quot;Feeds on moss on damp walls; when at rest lies stretched out flat on the moss, and entirely exposed; forms in the moss a cocoon covered with dust and moss, hardly distinguishable.&quot;


{{c|{{sc|Crambus}}, [[Author:Johann Christian Fabricius|F.]]}}

Antennæ of male finely ciliated, rarely pectinated (not in New Zealand species). Labial palpi very long, attenuated. Forewings with 12 veins (rarely 11 through obsolescence of vein 9), 8 and 9 stalked, rising out of 7 (rarely 6 also rising out of 7). Hindwings with 8 veins, 4 and 5 usually stalked or from a point, 6 approximated at base to 7, 7 and 8 stalked, cell open.

Distinguished from all the other New Zealand genera of the family by the origin of the stalk of 8 and 9 out of 7, the close basal approximation of 6 and 7 in the hindwings, and the open cell. The genus is a very large one, being plentifully represented all over the world except in Australia, where it is almost absent. The larvæ feed amongst the roots of grass, and the perfect insects frequent dry grassy situations, and when met with are often very abundant.
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/93</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847793</id>
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      <id>15132999</id>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}  I? No. Did you see? Did you see? Well? [''She stands smiling, with the expression of a mad Victory''.]  {{c|{{sc|Tilly}}}}  [''Plaintively'']: Cut it out, Zinida. Go to the devil!  {{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}  You saw, too! And! {{...}} what—  {{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}  Come home—come home. [''To the others''] You can do what you like here. Zinida, come home.  {{c|{{sc|Polly}}}}  You can't go, Papa. There's still your number.  {{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}...</comment>
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I? No. Did you see? Did you see? Well? [''She stands smiling, with the expression of a mad Victory''.]

{{c|{{sc|Tilly}}}}

[''Plaintively'']: Cut it out, Zinida. Go to the devil!

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

You saw, too! And! {{...}} what—

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Come home—come home. [''To the others''] You can do what you like here. Zinida, come home.

{{c|{{sc|Polly}}}}

You can't go, Papa. There's still your number.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

[''Her eyes meet those of Bezano'']: Ah! Bezano. [''Laughs long and happily''.] Bezano! Alfred! Did you see? My lions do love me! [''Bezano, without answering, leaves the stage. Zinida seems to wither and grow dim, as a light being extinguished. Her smile fades, her eyes and face grow pale. Briquet anxiously bends over her''.]
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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I? No. Did you see? Did you see? Well? [''She stands smiling, with the expression of a mad Victory''.]

{{c|{{sc|Tilly}}}}

[''Plaintively'']: Cut it out, Zinida. Go to the devil!

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

You saw, too! And! {{...}} what—

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

Come home—come home. [''To the others''] You can do what you like here. Zinida, come home.

{{c|{{sc|Polly}}}}

You can't go, Papa. There's still your number.

{{c|{{sc|Zinida}}}}

[''Her eyes meet those of Bezano'']: Ah! Bezano. [''Laughs long and happily''.] Bezano! Alfred! Did you see? My lions do love me! [''Bezano, without answering, leaves the stage. Zinida seems to wither and grow dim, as a light being extinguished. Her smile fades, her eyes and face grow pale. Briquet anxiously bends over her''.]
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/98</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847794</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133056</id>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}  I don't know, {{sc|He}}. [''She sighs and sits on the sofa, keeping in her pose the same artificiality and beauty''.] It's all so sad here, to-day. HE, are you sorry for {{sc|Zinida}}?  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  What did she do?  {{c|{{sc|CONSUELO}}}}  I didn't see. I had closed my eyes, and didn't open them. Alfred says she is a wicked woman, but that isn't true. She has such nice eyes, and what tiny cold hands—as if she were dead. What do...</comment>
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      <text bytes="828" sha1="3lr743h6qwrfgzfk4aoe8tt358m8x1p" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|80|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|80}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

I don't know, {{sc|He}}. [''She sighs and sits on the sofa, keeping in her pose the same artificiality and beauty''.] It's all so sad here, to-day. HE, are you sorry for {{sc|Zinida}}?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

What did she do?

{{c|{{sc|CONSUELO}}}}

I didn't see. I had closed my eyes, and didn't open them. Alfred says she is a wicked woman, but that isn't true. She has such nice eyes, and what tiny cold hands—as if she were dead. What does she do it for? Alfred says she should be audacious, beautiful, but quiet, otherwise what she does is only disgusting. It isn't true, is it, {{sc|He}}?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

She loves Alfred.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Alfred? My Bezano? [''Shrugging her shoulders, and surprised''] How does she love him? The same as everyone loves?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <origin>15133057</origin>
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      <text bytes="828" sha1="4p9grk8o3qfi65piqntxqwl9y5fq0z6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|80|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|80}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

I don't know, {{sc|He}}. [''She sighs and sits on the sofa, keeping in her pose the same artificiality and beauty''.] It's all so sad here, to-day. HE, are you sorry for {{sc|Zinida}}?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

What did she do?

{{c|{{sc|CONSUELO}}}}

I didn't see. I had closed my eyes, and didn't open them. Alfred says she is a wicked woman, but that isn't true. She has such nice eyes, and what tiny cold hands—as if she were dead. What does she do it for? Alfred says she should be audacious, beautiful, but quiet, otherwise what she does is only disgusting. It isn't true, is it, {{sc|He}}?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

She loves Alfred.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Alfred? My Bezano? [''Shrugging her shoulders, and surprised''] How does she love him? The same as everyone loves?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4p9grk8o3qfi65piqntxqwl9y5fq0z6</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133058</id>
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        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <origin>15133058</origin>
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      <text bytes="828" sha1="ktpn0wlnv1111dfrkzggp7funnhvbmk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|80|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|80}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

I don't know, {{sc|He}}. [''She sighs and sits on the sofa, keeping in her pose the same artificiality and beauty''.] It's all so sad here, to-day. HE, are you sorry for {{sc|Zinida}}?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

What did she do?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

I didn't see. I had closed my eyes, and didn't open them. Alfred says she is a wicked woman, but that isn't true. She has such nice eyes, and what tiny cold hands—as if she were dead. What does she do it for? Alfred says she should be audacious, beautiful, but quiet, otherwise what she does is only disgusting. It isn't true, is it, {{sc|He}}?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

She loves Alfred.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Alfred? My Bezano? [''Shrugging her shoulders, and surprised''] How does she love him? The same as everyone loves?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133375</id>
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      <origin>15133375</origin>
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      <text bytes="840" sha1="japmbcvxmvrv69j231xcg6vg190cbg1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|80|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|80}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

I don’t know, {{sc|He}}. [''She sighs and sits on the sofa, keeping in her pose the same artificiality and beauty''.] It’s all so sad here, to-day. HE, are you sorry for {{sc|Zinida}}?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

What did she do?

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

I didn’t see. I had closed my eyes, and didn’t open them. Alfred says she is a wicked woman, but that isn’t true. She has such nice eyes, and what tiny cold hands—as if she were dead. What does she do it for? Alfred says she should be audacious, beautiful, but quiet, otherwise what she does is only disgusting. It isn’t true, is it, {{sc|He}}?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

She loves Alfred.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Alfred? My Bezano? [''Shrugging her shoulders, and surprised''] How does she love him? The same as everyone loves?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/103</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847795</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133060</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:54:59Z</timestamp>
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        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}  Will he eat me?  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  No. But you will die before he has time to eat you.  {{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}  And what will become of Father? Is there nothing about him here? [''Laughing, she softly sings the melody of the waltz, which is playing in the distance''.]  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  Don't laugh, Consuelo, at the voice of the stars. They are far away, their rays are light and pale, and we can barely see their sleeping shadows, but...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1037" sha1="lit1w51w1a2gt2j3i99z5ukppxae2es" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|85|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|85}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Will he eat me?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No. But you will die before he has time to eat you.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

And what will become of Father? Is there nothing about him here? [''Laughing, she softly sings the melody of the waltz, which is playing in the distance''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Don't laugh, Consuelo, at the voice of the stars. They are far away, their rays are light and pale, and we can barely see their sleeping shadows, but their sorcery is stern and dark. You stand at the gates of eternity. Your die is cast; you are ''doomed''—and your Alfred, whom you love in your heart, even though your mind is not aware of it, your Alfred cannot save you. He, too, is a stranger on this earth. He is submerged in a deep sleep. He, too, is a little god who has lost himself, and Consuelo, never, never will he find his way to Heaven again. Forget Bezano{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

I don't understand a word. Do the gods really exist? My teacher told me about them. But I&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <origin>15133061</origin>
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      <text bytes="1037" sha1="bo9migk6sa2p83gd49hrnav6qpubyza" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|85|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|85}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Will he eat me?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No. But you will die before he has time to eat you.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

And what will become of Father? Is there nothing about him here? [''Laughing, she softly sings the melody of the waltz, which is playing in the distance''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Don't laugh, Consuelo, at the voice of the stars. They are far away, their rays are light and pale, and we can barely see their sleeping shadows, but their sorcery is stern and dark. You stand at the gates of eternity. Your die is cast; you are ''doomed''—and your Alfred, whom you love in your heart, even though your mind is not aware of it, your Alfred cannot save you. He, too, is a stranger on this earth. He is submerged in a deep sleep. He, too, is a little god who has lost himself, and Consuelo, never, never will he find his way to Heaven again. Forget Bezano{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

I don't understand a word. Do the gods really exist? My teacher told me about them. But I&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133381</id>
      <parentid>15133061</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:44:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <text bytes="1041" sha1="05vfzmza9wpa0y6bm7gz57ka4jiu8sg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|85|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|85}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

Will he eat me?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No. But you will die before he has time to eat you.

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

And what will become of Father? Is there nothing about him here? [''Laughing, she softly sings the melody of the waltz, which is playing in the distance''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Don’t laugh, Consuelo, at the voice of the stars. They are far away, their rays are light and pale, and we can barely see their sleeping shadows, but their sorcery is stern and dark. You stand at the gates of eternity. Your die is cast; you are ''doomed''—and your Alfred, whom you love in your heart, even though your mind is not aware of it, your Alfred cannot save you. He, too, is a stranger on this earth. He is submerged in a deep sleep. He, too, is a little god who has lost himself, and Consuelo, never, never will he find his way to Heaven again. Forget Bezano{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|Consuelo}}}}

I don’t understand a word. Do the gods really exist? My teacher told me about them. But I&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/45</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847796</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133062</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T03:56:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133062</origin>
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      <text bytes="2918" sha1="1uxpy940gthelrs3detig5uonek8i4p" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;I am acquainted with seventeen New Zealand species, which may be thus separated:—

{| {{ts|ma}}
|I. Forewings with a sharply-defined white longitudinal streak from base to hindmargin.
|-
|{{em}}A. Streak above middle; costal area dark fuscous||12. ''flexuosellus.''
|-
|{{em}}B. {{ditto|Streak}} central; costal not darker than ground-colour
|-
|{{gap}}1. Forewings blotched with dark fuscous||2. ''corruptus.''
|-
|{{gap}}2. {{ditto|Forewings}} not blotched
|-
|{{gap|3em}}a. Hindwings dark fuscous||1. ''æthonellus.''
|-
|{{gap|3em}}b. {{ditto|Hindwings}} light grey or whitish
|-
|{{gap|4em}}{{fsp}}{{*}} Head light ochreous
|-
|{{gap|5em}}{{fsp}}† Hindmargin dotted with black||6. ''haplotomus.''
|-
|{{gap|5em}}†† {{ditto|Hindmargin}} not dotted||8. ''simplex.''
|-
|{{gap|4em}}{{*}}* Head white
|-
|{{gap|5em}}{{fsp}}† Cilia grey barred with white||11. ''vittellus.''
|-
|{{gap|5em}}†† {{ditto|Cilia}} wholly white or whitish
|-
|{{gap|6em}}i. Costa with a rather broad white streak throughout||9. ''siriellus.''
|-
|{{gap|6em}}ii. {{ditto|Costa}} {{ditto|with}} a slender white streak throughout||7. ''callirrhoäs.''
|-
|{{gap|6em}}iii. {{ditto|Costa}} {{ditto|with}} a slender white streak from near base, posteriorly dilated||5. ''dicrenellus.''
|-
|{{gap|6em}}iv. {{ditto|Costa}} {{ditto|with}} a curved white streak from before middle to before apex{{em}}||10. ''apicellus.''
|-
|II. Forewings with no well-defined white longitudinal streak reaching hindmargin.
|-
|{{em}}A. With two slender longitudinal ferruginous streaks||17. ''xanthogrammus.''
|-
|{{em}}B. Without ferruginous streaks
|-
|{{gap}}1. With a blackish or dark fuscous streak from base
|-
|{{gap|3em}}a. Forewings pale ochreous or whitish||3. ''ramosellus.''
|-
|{{gap|3em}}b. {{ditto|Forewings}} grey
|-
|{{gap|4em}}{{fsp}}{{*}} White basal streak hooked downwards in middle of disc||15. ''harpophorus.''
|-
|{{gap|4em}}{{*}}* White basal streak straight beneath||16. ''strigosus.''
|-
|{{gap}}2. Without blackish basal streak
|-
|{{gap|3em}}a. Forewings whitish with a pale ochreous submedian streak||4. ''angustipennis.''
|-
|{{gap|3em}}b. {{ditto|Forewings}} greyish||14. ''cyclopicus.''
|-
|{{gap|3em}}c. {{ditto|Forewings}} brownish, with white and dark fuscous markings||13. ''tuhualis.''
|}


{{c|1. ''Cr. æthonellus'', n. sp.}}

''Male.''—18–19 mm. Head, palpi, and thorax deep ochreous-brown, shoulders with a small yellowish-white spot; palpi rather short, beneath ochreous-white towards base. Antennæ dark fuscous. Abdomen dark fuscous, gradually suffused with pale ochreous posteriorly. Anterior and middle legs dark fuscous; posterior legs whitish-ochreous, apex of tarsi infuscated. Forewings short, moderately broad, costa almost straight, apex almost acute, hindrnargin very slightly sinuate, nearly straight, moderately oblique; rather bright deep ochreous-brown; costal edge narrowly ochreous{{peh}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/46</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847797</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133090</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:02:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133090</origin>
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      <text bytes="2950" sha1="hf3o2qphq741mw609hpffpoqqbgjqco" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;whitish, becoming gradually more ochreous towards base; inner marginal edge sometimes very narrowly ochreous-whitish; a straight moderately broad central longitudinal ochreous-white streak from base to hindmargin, attenuated on basal third and before hindmargin, more or less distinctly margined with dark fuscous: cilia pale whitish-ochreous, on basal third light grey, with a distinct ochreous-white spot on central streak. Hindwings dark fuscous; cilia ochreous-white or whitish-ochreous, with a grey basal line.

Easily distinguished from all the other New Zealand species by the nearly uniform dark fuscous hindwings with whitish-ochreous cilia. In form and general characteristics it is closely allied to ''C. corruptus'', but differs widely in the deep ochreous-brown colouring, and the absence of the dark fuscous blotches. These two species are shorter-winged, more stoutly built, and more densely scaled than usual, but the venation is typical.

A mountain species; taken commonly by Mr. R. W. Fereday about Porter's Pass and Mount Hutt in January.

{{c|2. ''Cr. corruptus'', [[Author:Arthur Gardiner Butler|Butl.]]

{{fine block|(''Hypochalcia corrupta'', Butl., Proc. Zool. Soc. Lond., 1877, 399, Pl. XLIII., 9.)}}}}

''Male.''—18–19 mm. Head dark fuscous, face and back of crown ochreous-whitish. Palpi moderate, dark fuscous mixed with greyish-ochreous, beneath whitish towards base. Antennæ dark fuscous. Thorax dark fuscous, sides more ochreous-fuscous, shoulders with a few ochreous-whitish scales. Abdomen dark fuscous, suffused with pale greyish-ochreous posteriorly. Legs whitish-ochreous, anterior and middle pair suffused with greyish-fuscous. Forewing short, moderately broad, costa almost straight, slightly sinuate in middle, apex almost acute, hindmargin very slightly rounded, rather strongly oblique; ochreous-brown; extreme costal edge suffusedly ochreous-whitish, towards base and apex dark fuscous; a slender very ill-defined white streak beneath costa from middle to apex; inner margin rather narrowly suffused with dull ochreous-grey-whitish, towards base very narrowly and margined above by a short dark fuscous streak; a straight rather narrow central longitudinal white streak from base to hindmargin, considerably attenuated towards both ends, lower edge indented beyond middle; a broad dark fuscous streak along each margin of central streak from near base to middle, attenuated anteriorly; a dark fuscous blotch on each margin of central streak about ⅔, extending above to the subcostal white streak, and beneath to the dorsal whitish suffusion; a rather narrow dark fuscous band along hindmargin, interrupted by central streak, dilated towards costa: cilia grey, tips paler, with a rather darker grey basal line, on upper half of hindmargin more or less scaled with ochreous-white. Hindwings fuscous-grey, with a narrow dark fuscous hindmarginal band; cilia grey-whitish, with a grey basal line.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/47</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847798</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133109</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:04:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133109</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2839" sha1="4p2ud94t3fbxsh22wgvzog800x08se0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;Very distinct through, the combination of the dark fuscous blotches and white median streak. It has not the slightest affinity to ''Hypochalcia'', which belongs to another family.

Taken commonly by Mr. R. W. Fereday on Mount Hutt in January. Butler's note would give the erroneous idea that the species was generally common. His figure is not good.

{{c|3. ''Cr. ramosellus'', [[Author:Edward Doubleday|Dbld.]]

{{fine block|(''Crambus ramosellus'', Dbld., Dieff. New Zeal., Vol. II., 288; ''Crambus rangona'', Feld., Reise der Novara, Pl. CXXXVII., 25.)}}}}

''Male, female.''—28–27 mm. Head white, with an ochreous-brown spot behind eye. Maxillary palpi white, at base ochreous-brown. Labial palpi long, white, externally and towards apex beneath ochreous-brown. Antennæ dark fuscous. Thorax brownish-ochreous, with a broad central longitudinal white stripe. Abdomen whitish-ochreous. Legs whitish-ochreous, anterior and middle pair brownish-tinged. Forewings elongate, moderately broad, in female rather narrower, costa moderately arched, apex acute, hind margin strongly sinuate, rather strongly oblique; pale brownish-ochreous, more ochreous brown towards base; a very slender white line mmediately beneath costa from base to middle, sometimes obsolete; an ill-defined white central longitudinal streak from base to hindmargin, attenuated towards base, lower margin indented beyond middle, basal two-thirds margined beneath by a suffused dark fuscous streak, upper margin often suffused into ground-colour; between this streak and costa on posterior half of wing the veins are suffusedly marked with white, and sometimes whole costal half of wing suffused with white except margins; a broad ill-defined white or whitish suffusion along inner margin; in female sometimes whole wing suffused with whitish, except the dark fuscous submedian streak; two transverse series of dark fuscous dots, acutely angulated outwards above middle, intersecting median streak, often obsolete, first from middle of costa to below middle of median streak, not reaching inner margin, second from costa at ¾ to before anal angle, rather sinuate beneath; a hindmarginal row of dark fuscous dots: cilia whitish-grey, slightly shining, with a darker ochreous-grey line near base. Hindwings grey-whitish or whitish-grey, towards hindmargin and especially apex darker grey; cilia whitish or whitish-ochreous, with a very faint darker line near base.

The dark fuscous submedian streak, together with the ochreous or whitish ground-colour, sufficiently distinguishes this species from all others; it, however, varies considerably in depth of colouring, in the extent of the whitish suffusion, and the distinctness of the transverse series of dots. In general northern specimens seem to be smaller, darker, and more distinctly marked than southern.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page talk:Dashiell Hammett - The Dain Curse.pdf/103</title>
    <ns>105</ns>
    <id>4847799</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133136</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:08:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beardo</username>
        <id>950405</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Tad's blind man */ new section</comment>
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      <text bytes="211" sha1="1qdowtltxek5brwxso5ec3i4fcio1mf" xml:space="preserve">== Tad's blind man ==

For discussion of what &quot;Tad's blind man&quot; might refer, see https://donherron.com/hammett-more-tads-blind-man/ -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 04:08, 14 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Transactions NZ Institute Volume 15.djvu/48</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847800</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133137</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:09:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133137</origin>
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      <text bytes="2801" sha1="d4rjx7bb19cemq2cxi1et0zrjeg3awv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;A very common and generally distributed species; taken at Hamilton, Wellington, Nelson, Mount Hutt, Akaroa, Christchurch, and Dunedin; probably universally common; in December, January, February, and April.

Doubleday's description is very clear and unmistakeable. Zeller, not being aware of this description, later described a totally different species of the genus from Europe under the same name, which cannot stand.

{{c|4. ''Cr. angustipennis'', [[Author:Philipp Christoph Zeller|Z.]]

{{fine block|(''Chilo angustipennis'', Z., Hor. Ross, 1877, 15, Pl. I., 3; ''Chilo leucanialis'', Butt., Proc. Zool. Soc. Lond., 1877, 401.)}}

''Male, female.''—29–44 mm. Head white, sides of crown pale brownish-ochreous. Maxillary palpi white, towards base light brownish-ochreous. Labial palpi very long, white, externally light brownish-ochreous. Antennæ whitish-fuscous. Thorax pale brownish-ochreous, with a broad white central longitudinal stripe, and margins of shoulders very narrowly white. Abdomen and legs ochreous-whitish. Forewings elongate, narrow, in female very narrow, not dilated posteriorily, costa in male moderately, in female slightly arched, apex in male very strongly, in female moderately produced, acute, hindmargin sinuate, very oblique; very pale dull ochreous; all veins on upper half of wing broadly suffused with white, nearly confluent, so that the whole costal half appears whitish; a rather broad white streak along inner margin from base to anal angle, suffusedly margined above at base with dark fuscous, and bordered on inner marginal edge by a slender fuscous streak from ⅓ to anal angle, strongest in middle: cilia white. Hindwings white, sometimes slightly ochreous-tinged; cilia white.

Very distinct by its large size, narrow forewings, produced apex, and the white suffusion of the forewings leaving only a narrow longitudinal submedian band of the ochreous ground-colour. Zeller is certainly wrong in referring this species to ''Chilo'' on superficial grounds, since in venation it is a true Crambus, and its peculiarities of appearance are only exaggerations of essentially similar points in ''C. ramosellus'', which is its nearest ally.

Not uncommon in the neighbourhood of Christchurch in December, January, and March, frequenting undoubtedly the toi-grass (''Arundo conspicua'').

Zeller's name has the priority, having been published 1st April, 1877, whilst Butler's does not appear to have been read until 1st May in the same year.

{{c|5. ''Cr. dicrenellus'', n. sp.}}

''Male, female.''—28–32 mm. Head white, sides of crown and anterior margin of eyes brownish-ochreous. Maxillary palpi white, towards base ochreous-fuscous. Labial palpi moderately long, rather dark ochreous-fuscous, white internally and beneath at base. Antennæ dark fuscous.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133764</id>
      <parentid>15133137</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:39:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Beeswaxcandle</username>
        <id>80078</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>fix template</comment>
      <origin>15133764</origin>
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      <text bytes="2803" sha1="r4k1uuk8a42evu0oomhite7tunefom5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Beeswaxcandle&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;A very common and generally distributed species; taken at Hamilton, Wellington, Nelson, Mount Hutt, Akaroa, Christchurch, and Dunedin; probably universally common; in December, January, February, and April.

Doubleday's description is very clear and unmistakeable. Zeller, not being aware of this description, later described a totally different species of the genus from Europe under the same name, which cannot stand.

{{c|4. ''Cr. angustipennis'', [[Author:Philipp Christoph Zeller|Z.]]

{{fine block|(''Chilo angustipennis'', Z., Hor. Ross, 1877, 15, Pl. I., 3; ''Chilo leucanialis'', Butt., Proc. Zool. Soc. Lond., 1877, 401.)}}}}

''Male, female.''—29–44 mm. Head white, sides of crown pale brownish-ochreous. Maxillary palpi white, towards base light brownish-ochreous. Labial palpi very long, white, externally light brownish-ochreous. Antennæ whitish-fuscous. Thorax pale brownish-ochreous, with a broad white central longitudinal stripe, and margins of shoulders very narrowly white. Abdomen and legs ochreous-whitish. Forewings elongate, narrow, in female very narrow, not dilated posteriorily, costa in male moderately, in female slightly arched, apex in male very strongly, in female moderately produced, acute, hindmargin sinuate, very oblique; very pale dull ochreous; all veins on upper half of wing broadly suffused with white, nearly confluent, so that the whole costal half appears whitish; a rather broad white streak along inner margin from base to anal angle, suffusedly margined above at base with dark fuscous, and bordered on inner marginal edge by a slender fuscous streak from ⅓ to anal angle, strongest in middle: cilia white. Hindwings white, sometimes slightly ochreous-tinged; cilia white.

Very distinct by its large size, narrow forewings, produced apex, and the white suffusion of the forewings leaving only a narrow longitudinal submedian band of the ochreous ground-colour. Zeller is certainly wrong in referring this species to ''Chilo'' on superficial grounds, since in venation it is a true Crambus, and its peculiarities of appearance are only exaggerations of essentially similar points in ''C. ramosellus'', which is its nearest ally.

Not uncommon in the neighbourhood of Christchurch in December, January, and March, frequenting undoubtedly the toi-grass (''Arundo conspicua'').

Zeller's name has the priority, having been published 1st April, 1877, whilst Butler's does not appear to have been read until 1st May in the same year.

{{c|5. ''Cr. dicrenellus'', n. sp.}}

''Male, female.''—28–32 mm. Head white, sides of crown and anterior margin of eyes brownish-ochreous. Maxillary palpi white, towards base ochreous-fuscous. Labial palpi moderately long, rather dark ochreous-fuscous, white internally and beneath at base. Antennæ dark fuscous.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/59</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847801</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133240</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:22:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TheTimeBombII</username>
        <id>3137028</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="2241" sha1="jp3qztp152wbq98qy1632aouyd5myzq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|julius cæsar.}}|43}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;not receive them again into his service, until they had not only made repeated and humble entreaties, but until the ringleaders in the mutiny were punished.

LXX. When the soldiers of the tenth legion at Rome demanded their discharge and rewards for their service, with violent threats and no small danger to the city, although the war was then raging in Africa, he did not hesitate, contrary to the advice of his friends, to meet the legion, and disband it. But addressing them by the title of &quot;Quirites,&quot; instead of &quot;Soldiers,&quot; he by this single word so thoroughly brought them round and changed their determination, that they immediately cried out, they were his &quot;soldiers,&quot; and followed him to 
Africa, although he had refused their service. He nevertheless punished the most mutinous among them, with the loss of a third of their share in the plunder, and the land destined for them.

LXXI. In the service of his clients, while yet a young man, he evinced great zeal and fidelity. He defended the cause of a noble youth, Masintha, against king Hiempsal, so strenuously, that in a scuffle which took place upon the occasion, he seized by the beard the son of king Juba; and upon Masintha's being 
declared tributary to Hiempsal, while the friends of the adverse party were violently carrying him off, he immediately rescued him by force, kept him concealed in his house a long 
time, and when, at the expiration of his prætorship, he went to Spain, he took him away in his litter, in the midst of his lictors bearing the fasces, and others who had come to attend and take leave of him.

LXXII. He always treated his friends with such kindness and good-nature, that when Caius Oppius, in travelling with him through a forest, was suddenly taken ill, he resigned to him the only place there was to shelter them at night, and lay upon the ground in the open air. When he had placed himself at the head of affairs, he advanced some of his faithful adherents, though of mean extraction, to the highest offices; and when he was censured for this partiality, he openly said, &quot;Had 
I been assisted by robbers and cut-throats in the defence of my honour, I should have made them the same recompense.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/118</title>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|{{sc|He}}}}  [''Laughing'']: What a restless, touchy faker you are! Please sit still; be quiet. It is the custom here to speak this way. Why were you trying to find me?  {{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}  My conscience {{...}}  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  You have no conscience. Or were you afraid that you hadn't robbed me of ''everything'' I possessed, and you came for the rest? But what more could you take from me now? My fool's cap with its bells? You wouldn't take it....</comment>
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[''Laughing'']: What a restless, touchy faker you are! Please sit still; be quiet. It is the custom here to speak this way. Why were you trying to find me?

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

My conscience {{...}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

You have no conscience. Or were you afraid that you hadn't robbed me of ''everything'' I possessed, and you came for the rest? But what more could you take from me now? My fool's cap with its bells? You wouldn't take it. It's too big for your bald head! Crawl back, you book-worm!

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

You cannot forgive the fact that your wife {{...}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

To the devil with my wife! [''The gentleman is startled and raises his eyebrows. {{sc|He}} laughs''.]

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}
I don't know{{...|4}} But such language! I confess I find difficulty in expressing my thoughts in&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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[''Laughing'']: What a restless, touchy faker you are! Please sit still; be quiet. It is the custom here to speak this way. Why were you trying to find me?

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

My conscience {{...}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

You have no conscience. Or were you afraid that you hadn't robbed me of ''everything'' I possessed, and you came for the rest? But what more could you take from me now? My fool's cap with its bells? You wouldn't take it. It's too big for your bald head! Crawl back, you book-worm!

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

You cannot forgive the fact that your wife {{...}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

To the devil with my wife! [''The gentleman is startled and raises his eyebrows. {{sc|He}} laughs''.]

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}
I don't know{{...|4}} But such language! I confess I find difficulty in expressing my thoughts in&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/60</title>
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      <id>15133288</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:33:42Z</timestamp>
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        <username>TheTimeBombII</username>
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      <text bytes="2356" sha1="0ttsgu7yfjzlpgldu8fapa8ec7fpocb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|44|{{sc|suetonius.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;LXXIII. The resentment he entertained against any one was never so implacable that he did not very willingly renounce it when opportunity offered. Although Caius Memmius had published some extremely virulent speeches against him, and he had answered him with equal acrimony, yet he afterwards assisted him with his vote and interest, when he stood candidate for the consulship. When C. Calvus, after publishing 
some scandalous epigrams upon him, endeavoured to effect a reconciliation by the intercession of friends, he wrote to him, of his own accord, the first letter. And when Valerius Catullus, who had, as he himself observed, fixed such a stain upon his character in his verses upon Mamurra as never could be obliterated, he begged his pardon, invited him to supper the same day; and continued to take up his lodging with his father occasionally, as he had been accustomed to do.

LXXIV. His temper was also naturally averse to severity in retaliation. After he had captured the pirates, by whom he had been taken, having sworn that he would crucify them, he did so indeed; but he first ordered their throats to be cut.&lt;ref&gt;To save them from the torture of a lingering death.&lt;/ref&gt; He could never bear the thought of doing any harm to Cornelius Phagitas, who had dogged him in the night when he was sick and a fugitive, with the design of carrying him to Sylla, and from whose hands he had escaped with some difficulty by 
giving him a bribe. Philemon, his amanuensis, who had promised his enemies to poison him, he put to death without torture. When he was summoned as a witness against Publicus Clodius, his wife Pompeia's gallant, who was prosecuted for the profanation of religious ceremonies, he declared he knew nothing of the affair, although his mother Aurelia, and his sister Julia, gave the court an exact and full account of the circumstances. And being asked why then he had divorced his wife? &quot;Because,&quot; he said, &quot;my family should not only be free from guilt, but even from the suspicion of it.&quot;

LXXV. Both in his administration and his conduct towards the vanquished party in the civil war, he showed a wonderful moderation and clemency. For while Pompey declared that he would consider those as enemies who did not take arms in defence of the republic, he desired it to be understood, that he&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/123</title>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;even then I find your image in my head, in my unfortunate brain, your damned and hateful image! [''Silence. The gentleman's eyes twitch''.]  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  [''Speaking slowly'']: What a comedy. How marvellously everything is turned about in this world: the robbed proves to be a robber, and the robber is complaining of theft, and cursing! [''Laughs''.] Listen, I was mistaken. You are not my shadow. You are the crowd. If you live by my creations, you hat...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1016" sha1="d9mw2shn5hl06dprjl2t988aourxg2q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|105|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|105}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;even then I find your image in my head, in my unfortunate brain, your damned and hateful image! [''Silence. The gentleman's eyes twitch''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Speaking slowly'']: What a comedy. How marvellously everything is turned about in this world: the robbed proves to be a robber, and the robber is complaining of theft, and cursing! [''Laughs''.] Listen, I was mistaken. You are not my shadow. You are the crowd. If you live by my creations, you hate me; if you breathe my breath, you are choking with anger. And choking with anger, hating me, you still walk slowly on the trail of my ideas. But you are advancing backward, advancing backward, comrade! Oh, what a marvellous comedy! [''Walking and smiling''.] Tell me, would you be relieved if I really had died?

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Yes! I think so. Death augments distance and dulls the memory. Death reconciles. But you do not look like a man who{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes, yes! Death, ''certainly!''
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15133343</id>
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      <origin>15133343</origin>
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      <text bytes="1016" sha1="mrku828esgqacc6hyqie3fi2ndpm5j7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|105|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|105}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;even then I find your image in my head, in my unfortunate brain, your damned and hateful image! [''Silence. The gentleman's eyes twitch''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Speaking slowly'']: What a comedy. How marvellously everything is turned about in this world: the robbed proves to be a robber, and the robber is complaining of theft, and cursing! [''Laughs''.] Listen, I was mistaken. You are not my shadow. You are the crowd. If you live by my creations, you hate me; if you breathe my breath, you are choking with anger. And choking with anger, hating me, you still walk slowly on the trail of my ideas. But you are advancing backward, advancing backward, comrade! Oh, what a marvellous comedy! [''Walking and smiling''.] Tell me, would you be relieved if I really had died?

{{c|{{sc|Gentleman}}}}

Yes! I think so. Death augments distance and dulls the memory. Death reconciles. But you do not look like a man who{{longdash}}

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Yes, yes! Death, ''certainly!''
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Orange Fairy Book.djvu/343</title>
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      <text bytes="1424" sha1="ccj2ltzp1lwvifiixjz93dal5bone4c" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|''THE MINK AND THE WOLF''}}

{{sc|In}} the big forest in the north of America lived a quantity of wild animals of all sorts. They were always very polite when they met; but, in spite of that, they kept a close watch one upon the other, as each was afraid of being killed and eaten by somebody else. But their manners were so good that no one would ever have guessed that.

One day a smart young wolf went out to hunt, promising his grandfather and grandmother that he would be sure to be back before bedtime. He trotted along quite happily through the forest till he came to a favourite place of his, just where the river runs into the sea. There, just as he had hoped, he saw the chief mink fishing in a canoe.

‘I want to fish too,’ cried the wolf. But the mink said nothing, and pretended not to hear.

‘I wish you would take me into your boat!’ shouted the wolf, louder than before, and he continued to beseech the mink so long that at last he grew tired of it, and paddled to the shore close enough for the wolf to jump in.

‘Sit down quietly at that end or we shall be upset,’ said the mink; ‘and if you care about sea-urchins’ eggs, you will find plenty in that basket. But be sure you eat only the white ones, for the red ones would kill you.’

So the wolf, who was always hungry, began to eat the eggs greedily; and when he had finished he told the mink he thought he would have a nap.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/61</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15133394</id>
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      <text bytes="2424" sha1="d6afn4u0qejr6gxqe0wfmslqx77mty4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|julius cæsar.}}|45}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;should regard those who remained neuter as his friends. With regard to all those to whom he had, on Pompey's recommendation, given any command in the army, he left them at perfect 
liberty to go over to him, if they pleased. When some proposals were made at Ilerda&lt;ref&gt;Now Lerida, in Catalonia.&lt;/ref&gt; for a surrender, which gave rise to a free communication between the two camps, and Afranius and Petreius, upon a sudden change of resolution, had put to the sword all Cæsar's men who were found in the camp, he scorned to imitate the base treachery which they had practised against himself. On the field of Pharsalia, he called out to the soldiers &quot;to spare their fellow-citizens,&quot; and afterwards gave permission to every man in his army to save an enemy. None of them, so far as appears, lost their lives but in battle, excepting only Afranius, Faustus, and young Lucius Cæsar; and it is thought that even they were put to death without his consent. Afranius and Faustus had borne arms against him, after obtaining their pardon; and Lucius Cæsar had not only in the most cruel manner destroyed with fire and sword his freed-men and slaves, but cut to pieces the wild beasts which he had 
prepared for the entertainment of the people. And finally, a little before his death, he permitted all whom he had not before pardoned, to return into Italy, and to bear offices both civil and military. He even replaced the statues of Sylla and Pompey, which had been thrown down by the populace. And after this, whatever was devised or uttered, he chose rather to check than to punish it. Accordingly, having detected certain conspiracies and nocturnal assemblies, he went no farther than to intimate by a proclamation that he knew of them; and as to those who indulged themselves in the liberty of reflecting severely upon him, he only warned them in a public speech not to persist in their offence. He bore with great moderation a virulent libel written against him by Aulus Cæcinna, and the abusive lampoons of Pitholaüs, most highly reflecting on his reputation.

LXXVI. His other words and actions, however, so far outweigh all his good qualities, that it is thought he abused his power, and was justly cut off. For he not only obtained excessive honours, such as the consulship every year, the dictatorship for life, and the censorship, but also the title of {{hws|em|emperor}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Orange Fairy Book.djvu/344</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15133398</id>
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      <contributor>
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      <text bytes="1921" sha1="hbx0t7rwcmy68x48sy29582jx35kovj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rh|308|THE MINK AND THE WOLF|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;‘Well, then, stretch yourself out, and rest your head on that piece of wood,’ said the mink. And the wolf did as he was bid, and was soon fast asleep. Then the mink crept up to him and stabbed him to the heart with his knife, and he died without moving. After that he landed on the beach, skinned the wolf, and taking the skin to his cottage, he hung it up before the fire to dry.

Not many days later the wolf’s grandmother who, with the help of her relations, had been searching for him everywhere, entered the cottage to buy some sea-urchins’ eggs, and saw the skin, which she at once guessed to be that of her grandson.

‘I knew he was dead—I knew it! I knew it!’ she cried, weeping bitterly, till the mink told her rudely that if she wanted to make so much noise she had better do it outside as he liked to be quiet. So, half-blinded by her tears, the old woman went home the way she had come, and running in at the door, she flung herself down in front of the fire.

‘What are you crying for?’ asked the old wolf and some friends who had been spending the afternoon with him.

‘I shall never see my grandson any more!’ answered she. ‘Mink has killed him, oh! oh!’ And putting her head down, she began to weep as loudly as ever.

‘There! there!’ said her husband, laying his paw on her shoulder. ‘Be comforted; if he ''is'' dead, we will avenge him.’ And calling to the others they proceeded to talk over the best plan. It took them a long time to make up their minds, as one wolf proposed one thing and one another; but at last it was agreed that the old wolf should give a great feast in his house, and that the mink should be invited to the party. And in order that no time should be lost it was further agreed that each wolf should bear the invitations to the guests that lived nearest to him.

Now the wolves thought they were very cunning, but&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Orange Fairy Book.djvu/346</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133403</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T04:48:08Z</timestamp>
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      <text bytes="1981" sha1="ndjsj0vpyobytc03sui0bqzu6n0y0i3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rh|310|THE MINK AND THE WOLF|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;‘Oh, something quite easy,’ replied the mink. ‘I only want you—between to-day and the next full moon—to gnaw through the bows and paddles of the wolf people, so that directly they use them they will break. But of course you must manage it so that they notice nothing.’

‘Of course,’ answered the mouse, ‘nothing is easier; but as the full moon is to-morrow night, and there is not much time, I had better begin at once.’ Then the mink thanked her, and went his way; but before he had gone far he came back again.

‘Perhaps, while you are about the wolf’s house seeing after the bows, it would do no harm if you were to make that knot-hole in the wall a little bigger,’ said he. ‘Not large enough to draw attention, of course; but it ''might'' come in handy.’ And with another nod he left her.

The next evening the mink washed and brushed himself carefully and set out for the feast. He smiled to himself as he looked at the dusty track, and perceived that though the marks of wolves’ feet were many, not a single guest was to be seen anywhere. He knew very well what ''that'' meant; but he had taken his precautions and was not afraid.

The house door stood open, but through a crack the mink could see the wolves crowding in the corner behind it. However, he entered boldly, and as soon as he was fairly inside the door was shut with a bang, and the whole herd sprang at him, with their red tongues hanging out of their mouths. Quick as they were they were too late, for the mink was already through the knot-hole and racing for his canoe.

The knot-hole was too small for the wolves, and there were so many of them in the hut that it was some time before they could get the door open. Then they seized the bows and arrows which were hanging on the walls and, once outside, aimed at the flying mink; but as they pulled the bows broke in their paws, so they threw them away, and bounded to the shore, with all their&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Orange Fairy Book.djvu/347</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="1878" sha1="t6z8o3ylxuar38twkq1j16xbpcygl75" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rh||THE MINK AND THE WOLF|311}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;speed, to the place where their canoes were drawn up on the beach.

Now, although the mink could not run as fast as the wolves, he had had a good start, and was already afloat when the swiftest among them threw themselves into the nearest canoe. They pushed off, but as they dipped the paddles into the water, they snapped as the bows had done, and were quite useless.

‘I know where there are some new ones,’ cried a young fellow, leaping on shore and rushing to a little cave at the back of the beach. And the mink’s heart smote him when he heard, for he had not known of this secret store.

After a long chase the wolves managed to surround their prey, and the mink, seeing it was no good resisting any more, gave himself up. Some of the older wolves brought out some cedar bands, which they always carried wound round their bodies, but the mink laughed scornfully at the sight of them.

‘Why I could snap those in a moment,’ said he; ‘if you want to make sure that I cannot escape, better take a line of kelp and bind me with that.’

‘You are right,’ answered the grandfather; ‘your wisdom is greater than ours.’ And he bade his servants gather enough kelp from the rocks to make a line, as they had brought none with them.

‘While the line is being made you might as well let me have one last dance,’ remarked the mink. And the wolves replied: ‘Very good, you may have your dance; perhaps it may amuse us as well as you.’ So they brought two canoes and placed them one beside the other. The mink stood up on his hind legs and began to dance, first in one canoe and then in the other; and so graceful was he, that the wolves forgot they were going to put him to death, and howled with pleasure.

‘Pull the canoes a little apart; they are too close for this new dance,’ he said, pausing for a moment. And the&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Orange Fairy Book.djvu/348</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="655" sha1="ici7jgxxeph5mmdv4unnhl77ap6uwuu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rh|312|THE MINK AND THE WOLF|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;wolves separated them while he gave a series of little springs, sometimes pirouetting while he stood with one foot on the prow of both. ‘Now nearer, now further apart,’ he would cry as the dance went on. ‘No! further still.’ And springing into the air, amidst howls of Applause, he came down head foremost, and dived to the bottom. And though the wolves, whose howls had now changed into those of rage, sought him everywhere, they never found him, for he hid behind a rock till they were out of sight, and then made his home in another forest.

{{c|{{sm|(From the ''Journal of the Anthropological Institute.'')}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/79</title>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;tenth slap, I said: &quot;It seems to me that they sent for me from the Academy?&quot; [''Acts, looking around him with an air of unconquerable pride and splendour. Laughter. Jackson gives him a real slap''.]  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  [''Holding his face'']: Why?  {{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}  Because you're a fool, and play for nothing. Waiter, the check. (''Laughter. The bell calls them to the ring. The actors go out in haste, some running. The waiters collect their money''.)...</comment>
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      <text bytes="862" sha1="r9q6a84fgkigft34kia0bx5qj1ehuam" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|61|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|61}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tenth slap, I said: &quot;It seems to me that they sent for me from the Academy?&quot; [''Acts, looking around him with an air of unconquerable pride and splendour. Laughter. Jackson gives him a real slap''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Holding his face'']: Why?

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Because you're a fool, and play for nothing. Waiter, the check. (''Laughter. The bell calls them to the ring. The actors go out in haste, some running. The waiters collect their money''.)

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

[In a sing-song]: To the ring-to the ring-

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

I want to tell you something, HE. You are not going yet?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No. I'll take a rest.

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

To the ring—to the ring—

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''The clowns as they go sing in shrill, squeaky voices, Little by little they all disappear, and loud''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="862" sha1="p8ctlhp3rz4cwvy5sufhh6yh522xckj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|61|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|61}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tenth slap, I said: &quot;It seems to me that they sent for me from the Academy?&quot; [''Acts, looking around him with an air of unconquerable pride and splendour. Laughter. Jackson gives him a real slap''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Holding his face'']: Why?

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Because you're a fool, and play for nothing. Waiter, the check. (''Laughter. The bell calls them to the ring. The actors go out in haste, some running. The waiters collect their money''.)

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

[In a sing-song]: To the ring-to the ring-

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

I want to tell you something, HE. You are not going yet?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No. I'll take a rest.

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

To the ring—to the ring—

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''The clowns as they go sing in shrill, squeaky voices, Little by little they all disappear, and loud''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="885" sha1="khcc7d48tp82yv8c31wpqe0u0h767ak" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|61|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|61}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''tenth slap, I said: “It seems to me that they sent for me from the Academy?” [''Acts, looking around him with an air of unconquerable pride and splendour. Laughter. Jackson gives him a real slap''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Holding his face'']: Why?

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Because you’re a fool, and play for nothing. Waiter, the check. (''Laughter. The bell calls them to the ring. The actors go out in haste, some running. The waiters collect their money''.)

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

[''In a sing-song'']: To the ring-to the ring—

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

I want to tell you something, {{sc|He}}. You are not going yet?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No. I’ll take a rest.

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

To the ring—to the ring—

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''The clowns as they go sing in shrill, squeaky voices, Little by little they all disappear, and loud''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="883" sha1="9a0068rrerjg2h0th1n5663m1bpcq3e" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|61|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|61}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tenth slap, I said: “It seems to me that they sent for me from the Academy?” [''Acts, looking around him with an air of unconquerable pride and splendour. Laughter. Jackson gives him a real slap''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Holding his face'']: Why?

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Because you’re a fool, and play for nothing. Waiter, the check. (''Laughter. The bell calls them to the ring. The actors go out in haste, some running. The waiters collect their money''.)

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

[''In a sing-song'']: To the ring-to the ring—

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

I want to tell you something, {{sc|He}}. You are not going yet?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No. I’ll take a rest.

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

To the ring—to the ring—

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''The clowns as they go sing in shrill, squeaky voices, Little by little they all disappear, and loud''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="885" sha1="hhpkk5wjb9fthvui4j96rxfayn5rfej" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|61|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|61}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;tenth slap, I said: “It seems to me that they sent for me from the Academy?” [''Acts, looking around him with an air of unconquerable pride and splendour. Laughter. Jackson gives him a real slap''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

[''Holding his face'']: Why?

{{c|{{sc|Jackson}}}}

Because you’re a fool, and play for nothing. Waiter, the check. (''Laughter. The bell calls them to the ring. The actors go out in haste, some running. The waiters collect their money''.)

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

[''In a sing-song'']: To the ring—to the ring—

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

I want to tell you something, {{sc|He}}. You are not going yet?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

No. I’ll take a rest.

{{c|{{sc|Briquet}}}}

To the ring—to the ring—

{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}
[''The clowns as they go sing in shrill, squeaky voices, Little by little they all disappear, and loud''&lt;noinclude&gt;{{dent/e}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>The Orange Fairy Book/The Mink and the Wolf</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header |title = [[../]] |editor=Andrew Lang |illustrator=|override_illustrator=[[Author:Henry Justice Ford|H. J. Ford]] |section=The Mink and the Wolf |previous=[[../The Bird of Truth/]] |next=[[../Adventures of an Indian Brave/]] }}  &lt;pages index=&quot;The Orange Fairy Book.djvu&quot; from=343 to=348 /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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|title = [[../]]
|editor=Andrew Lang
|illustrator=|override_illustrator=[[Author:Henry Justice Ford|H. J. Ford]]
|section=The Mink and the Wolf
|previous=[[../The Bird of Truth/]]
|next=[[../Adventures of an Indian Brave/]]
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;The Orange Fairy Book.djvu&quot; from=343 to=348 /&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Murmuring Forest, and Other Stories.djvu/64</title>
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      <text bytes="1289" sha1="383kkuq7js9j8bja9btwbwi1z3el4lc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Sauce4561&quot; /&gt;{{rh|40|MAKAR'S DREAM}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;wooden bowl rose out of reach, high, high into the air. So the young servants of God flew up to it on their pinions and hundreds of them pulled it to the floor with ropes.

Heavy is the labour of a native of Chalgan!

Then Father Ivan began adding up the number of frauds that Makar had committed, and there proved to be twenty-one thousand, three hundred and three. Then he added up the number of bottles of vodka he had drunk, and there proved to be four hundred. And the priest read on and Makar saw that the wooden bowl was pulling on the gold one; it sank into the hole, and, as the priest read, it descended ever deeper and deeper.

Makar realised then that things were going badly for him; he stepped up to the scales and furtively tried to block them with his foot.

But one of the servants saw it, and a clamour arose amongst them.

&quot;What is the matter there?&quot; asked the old Toyon.

&quot;Why, he was trying to block the scales with his foot!&quot; cried the servant.

At that the Toyon turned wrathfully to Makar, exclaiming:

&quot;I see that you are a cheat, a sluggard, and a drunkard. You have left your arrears unpaid behind you, you owe tithes to the priest, and the policeman is steadily sinning on your account by swearing every time he speaks your name.&quot;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/62</title>
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      <text bytes="2747" sha1="190idpbgcbbwax57i6my10kc4x9ozpz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|46|{{sc|suetonius.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|peror|emperor}},&lt;ref&gt;The title of emperor was not new in Roman history; 1. It was sometimes given by the acclamations of the soldiers to those who commanded them. 2. It was synonymous with conqueror, and the troops hailed him by that title after a victory. In both these cases it was merely titular, and not permanent, and was generally written after the proper name, as ''Cicero imperator'', ''Lentulo imperatore''. 3. It assumed a permanent and royal character first in the person of Julius Cæsar, and was then generally prefixed to the emperor's name in inscriptions, as {{sc|imp. cæsar. divi}}. &amp;c.&lt;/ref&gt; and the surname of {{sc|Father of his country}},&lt;ref&gt;Cicero was the first who received the honour of being called &quot;Paterpatriæ&quot;.&lt;/ref&gt; besides having his statue amongst the kings,&lt;ref&gt;Statues were placed in the Capitol of each of the seven kings of Rome, to which an eighth was added in honour of Brutus, who expelled the last. The statue of Julius Cæsar was afterwards raised near them.&lt;/ref&gt; and a lofty couch in the theatre. He even suffered some honours to be decreed to him, which were unbefitting the most exalted of mankind; such as a gilded chair of state in the senate-house and on his tribunal, a consecrated chariot, and banners in the Circensian procession, temples, altars, statues among the gods, a bed of state in the temples, a priest, and a college of priests dedicated to himself, like those of Pan; and that one of the months should be called by his name. There were, indeed, no honours which he did not either assume himself, or grant to others, at his will and pleasure. In his third and fourth consulship, he used only the title of the office, being content with the power of dictator, which was conferred upon him with the consulship; and in both years he substituted other consuls in his room, during the three last months; so that in the intervals he held no assemblies of the people, for the election of magistrates, excepting only tribunes and ediles of the people; and appointed officers, 
under the name of præfects, instead of the prætors, to administer the affairs of the city during his absence. The office of consul having become vacant, by the sudden death of one of the consuls the day before the calends of January [the 1st Jan.], he conferred it on a person who requested it of him, for a few hours. Assuming the same licence, and regardless of the customs of his country, he appointed magistrates to hold their offices for terms of years. He granted the insignia 
of the consular dignity to ten persons of prætorian rank. He admitted into the senate some men who had been made free of the city, and even natives of Gaul, who were semi-barbarians.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Orange Fairy Book.djvu/349</title>
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      <text bytes="1483" sha1="ghoubix4g38pxixlbhdqocrke248jfl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|''ADVENTURES OF AN INDIAN BRAVE''}}

{{sc|A long}}, long way off, right away in the west of America, there once lived an old man who had one son. The country round was covered with forests, in which dwelt all kinds of wild beasts, and the young man and his companions used to spend whole days in hunting them, and he was the finest hunter of all the tribe.

One morning, when winter was coming on, the youth and his companions set off as usual to bring back some of the mountain goats and deer to be salted down, as he was afraid of a snow-storm; and if the wind blew and the snow drifted the forest might be impassable for some weeks. The old man and the wife, however, would not go out, but remained in the wigwam making bows and arrows.

It soon grew so cold in the forest that at last one of the men declared they could walk no more, unless they could manage to warm themselves.

‘That is easily done,’ said the leader, giving a kick to a large tree. Flames broke out in the trunk, and before it had burnt up they were as hot as if it had been summer. Then they started off to the place where the goats and deer were to be found in the greatest numbers, and soon had killed as many as they wanted. But the leader killed most, as he was the best shot.

‘Now we must cut up the game and divide it,’ said he; and so they did, each one taking his own share; and, walking one behind the other, set out for the village. But when they reached a great river the young man did&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Orange Fairy Book.djvu/350</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15133428</id>
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      <text bytes="1863" sha1="meeq2c8gfbwtdz4d0ckl003bwp1bc4q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rh|314|ADVENTURES OF AN INDIAN BRAVE|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;not want the trouble of carrying his pack any further, and left it on the bank.

‘I am going home another way,’ he told his companions. And taking another road he reached the village long before they did.

‘Have you returned with empty hands?’ asked the old man, as his son opened the door.

‘Have I ever done that, that you put me such a question?’ asked the youth. ‘No; I have slain enough to feast us for many moons, but it was heavy, and I left the pack on the bank of the great river. Give me the arrows, I will finish making them, and you can go to the river and bring home the pack!’

So the old man rose and went, and strapped the meat on his shoulder; but as he was crossing the ford the strap broke and the pack fell into the river. He stooped to catch it, but it swirled past him. He clutched again; but in doing so he over-balanced himself and was hurried into some rapids, where he was knocked against some rocks, and he sank and was drowned, and his body was carried down the stream into smoother water when it rose to the surface again. But by this time it had lost all likeness to a man, and was changed into a piece of wood.

The wood floated on, and the river got bigger and bigger and entered a new country. There it was borne by the current close to the shore, and a woman who was down there washing her clothes caught it as it passed, and drew it out, saying to herself: ‘What a nice smooth plank! I will use it as a table to put my food upon.’ And gathering up her clothes she took the plank with her into her hut.

When her supper time came she stretched the board across two strings which hung from the roof, and set upon it the pot containing a stew that smelt very good. The woman had been working hard all day and was very hungry, so she took her biggest spoon and plunged it&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Orange Fairy Book.djvu/351</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847817</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133429</id>
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      <text bytes="1812" sha1="39kq5foirucpp2qfyodjqtb6nbln0h2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rh||ADVENTURES OF AN INDIAN BRAVE|315}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;into the pot. But what was her astonishment and disgust when both pot and food vanished instantly before her.

‘Oh, you horrid plank, you have brought me ill-luck!’ she cried. And taking it up she flung it away from her.


The woman had been surprised before at the disappearance of her food, but she was more astonished still when, instead of the plank, she beheld a baby. However, she was fond of children and had none of her own, so she made up her mind that she would keep it and take care of it. The baby grew and throve as no baby in that country had ever done, and in four days he was a man, and as tall and strong as any brave of the tribe.

‘You have treated me well,’ he said, ‘and meat shall never fail in your house.’ But now I must go, for I have much work to do.’

Then he set out for his home. 

It took him many days to get there, and when he saw his son sitting in his place his anger was kindled, and his heart was stirred to take vengeance upon him. So he went out quickly into the forest and shed tears, and each tear became a bird. ‘Stay there till I want you,’ said he; and he returned to the hut.

‘I saw some pretty new birds, high up in a tree yonder,’ he remarked. ‘And the son answered: ‘Show me the way and I will get them for dinner.’

The two went out together, and after walking for about half an hour the old man stopped. ‘That is the tree,’ he said. And the son began to climb it.

Now a strange thing happened. The higher the young man climbed the higher the birds seemed to be, and when he looked down the earth below appeared no bigger than a star. Still he tried to go back, but he could not, and though he could not see the birds any longer he felt as if something were dragging him up and up.
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      <text bytes="1950" sha1="mqew27e79p68drstodjaf492c30dcli" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rh|316|ADVENTURES OF AN INDIAN BRAVE|}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;He thought that he had been climbing that tree for days, and perhaps he had, for suddenly a beautiful country, yellow with fields of maize, stretched before him, and he gladly left the top of the tree and entered it. He walked through the maize without knowing where he was going, when he heard a sound of knocking, and saw two old blind women crushing their food between two stones. He crept up to them on tiptoe, and when one old woman passed her dinner to the other he held out his hand and took it and ate it for himself.

‘How slow you are kneading that cake,’ cried the other old woman at last.

‘Why, I have given you your dinner, and what more do you want?’ replied the second.

‘You didn’t; at least I never got it,’ said the other.

‘I certainly thought you took it from me; but here is some more.’ And again the young man stretched out his hand; and the two old women fell to quarrelling afresh. But when it happened for the third time the old women suspected some trick, and one of them exclaimed:

‘I am sure there is a man here; tell me, are you not my grandson?’

‘Yes,’ answered the young man, who wished to please her, ‘and in return for your good dinner I will see if I cannot restore your sight; for I was taught the art of healing by the best medicine men in the tribe.’ And with that he left them, and wandered about till he found the herb which he wanted. Then he hastened back to the old women, and begging them to boil him some water, he threw the herb in. As soon as the pot began to sing he took off the lid, and sprinkled the eyes of the women the sight came back to them once more. 

There was no night in that country, so, instead of going to bed very early, as he would have done in his own hut, the young man took another walk. A splashing noise near by drew him down to a valley through which ran a large river, and up a waterfall some salmon were&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/63</title>
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      <id>15133434</id>
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      <text bytes="2218" sha1="kmm9dox0wml4ydhzeo3p0ygwqs829cn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|julius cæsar.}}|47}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;He likewise appointed to the management of the mint, and the public revenue of the state, some servants of his own household; and entrusted the command of three legions, which he left at Alexandria, to an old catamite of his, the son of his freed-man Rufinus.
 
LXXVII. He was guilty of the same extravagance in the language he publicly used, as Titus Ampius informs us; according to whom he said, &quot;The republic is nothing but a name, without substance or reality. Sylla was an ignorant 
fellow to abdicate the dictatorship. Men ought to consider what is becoming when they talk with me, and look upon what I say as a law.&quot; To such a pitch of arrogance did he proceed, that when a soothsayer announced to him the unfavourable omen, that the entrails of a victim offered for sacrifice were without a heart, he said, &quot;The entrails will be more favourable when I please; and it ought not to be regarded as a prodigy that a beast should be found wanting a heart.&quot;

LXXVIII. But what brought upon him the greatest odium, and was thought an unpardonable insult, was his receiving the whole body of the conscript fathers sitting, before the temple of Venus Genitrix, when they waited upon him with a number of decrees, conferring on him the highest dignities. Some say that, on his attempting to rise, he was held down by Cornelius Balbus; others, that he did not attempt to rise at all, but frowned on Caius Trebatius, who suggested to him that he should stand up to receive the senate. This behaviour appeared the more intolerable in him, because, when one of the tribunes of the people, Pontius Aquila, would not rise up to him, as he passed by the tribunes' seat during his triumph, he was so much offended, that he cried out, &quot;Well then, you tribune, Aquila, oust me from the government.&quot; And for some days afterwards, he never promised a favour to any person, without this proviso, &quot;if Pontus Aquila will give me 
leave.&quot;

LXXIX. To this extraordinary mark of contempt for the senate, he added another affront still more outrageous. For when, after the sacred rites of the Latin festival, he was returning home, amidst the immoderate and unusual {{hws|acclama|acclamations}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:The Orange Fairy Book.djvu/353</title>
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      <text bytes="1943" sha1="tco7yt882p0jexqdtbohueisorksh8r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TeysaKarlov&quot; /&gt;{{rh||ADVENTURES OF AN INDIAN BRAVE|317}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;leaping. How their silver sides glistened in the light, and how he longed to catch some of the great fellows! But how could he do it? He had beheld no one except the old women, and it was not very likely that they would be able to help him. So with a sigh he turned away and went back to them, but, as he walked, a thought struck him. He pulled out one of his hairs which hung nearly to his waist, and it instantly became a strong line, nearly a mile in length.

‘Weave me a net that I may catch some salmon,’ said he. And they wove him the net he asked for, and for many weeks he watched by the river, only going back to the old women when he wanted a fish cooked.

At last, one day, when he was eating his dinner, the old woman who always spoke first, said to him:

‘We have been very glad to see you, grandson, but now it is time that you went home.’ And pushing aside a rock, he saw a deep hole, ''so'' deep that he could not see to the bottom. Then they dragged a basket out of the house, and tied a rope to it. ‘Get in, and wrap this blanket round your head,’ said they; ‘and, whatever happens, don’t uncover it till you get to the bottom.’ Then they bade him farewell, and he curled himself up in the basket.

Down, down, down he went; would he ''ever'' stop going? But when the basket ''did'' stop, the young man forgot what he had been told, and put his head out to see what was the matter. In an instant the basket moved, but, to his horror, instead of going down, he felt himself being drawn upwards, and shortly after he beheld the faces of the old women.

‘You will never see your wife and son if you will not do as you are bid,’ said they. ‘Now get in, and do not stir till you hear a crow calling.’

This time the young man was wiser, and though the basket often stopped, and strange creatures seemed to rest on him and to pluck at his blanket, he held it tight&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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He walked on quickly down the track that led to the hut, when, before him, he saw his wife with his little son on her back.

‘Oh! there is father at last,’ cried the boy; but the mother bade him cease from idle talking.

‘But, mother, it is true; father is coming!’ repeated the child. And, to satisfy him, the woman turned round and perceived her husband.

Oh, how glad they all were to be together again! And when the wind whistled through the forest, and the snow stood in great banks round the door, the father used to take the little boy on his knee and tell him how he caught salmon in the Land of the Sun.

{{c|{{sm|(From the ''Journal of the Anthropological Institute.'')}}}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2597" sha1="26q261bdnovfzg3r5qfiult2188w27u" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|48|{{sc|suetonius.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|tions|acclamations}} of the people, a man in the crowd put a laurel crown, encircled with a white fillet,&lt;ref&gt;The white fillet was one of the insignia of royalty. Plutarch, on this occasion, uses the expression, διαδήματι βασιλικῷ, a royal diadem.&lt;/ref&gt; on one of his statues; upon which, the tribunes of the people, Epidius Marullus, and Cæsetius Flavus, ordered the fillet to be removed from the crown, and the man to be taken to prison. Cæsar, being much concerned either that the idea of royalty had been suggested to so little purpose, or, as was said, that he was thus deprived of the merit of refusing it, reprimanded the tribunes very severely, and dismissed them from their office. From that day forward, he was never able to wipe off the scandal of affecting the name of king, although he replied to the populace, when they saluted him by that title, &quot;I am Cæsar, and no king.&quot; And at the feast of the Lupercalia,&lt;ref&gt;The ''Lupercalia'' was a festival, celebrated in a place called the ''Lupercal'', in the month of February, in honour of Pan. During the solemnity, the ''Luperci'', or priests of that god, ran up and down the city naked, with only a girdle of goat's skin round their waist, and thongs of the same in their hands; with which they struck those they met, particularly married women, who were thence supposed to be rendered prolific.&lt;/ref&gt; when the consul Antony placed a crown upon his head in the rostra several times, he as often put it away, and sent it to the Capitol for Jupiter, the Best and the Greatest. A report was very current, that he had a design of withdrawing to Alexandria or Ilium, whither he proposed to transfer the imperial power, to drain Italy by new levies, and to leave the government of 
the city to be administered by his friends. To this report it was added, that in the next meeting of the senate, Lucius Cotta, one of the fifteen,&lt;ref&gt;Persons appointed to inspect and expound the Sibylline books.&lt;/ref&gt; would make a motion, that as there was in the Sibylline books a prophecy, that the Parthians would never be subdued but by a king, Cæsar should have that title conferred upon him.

LXXX. For this reason the conspirators precipitated the execution of their design,&lt;ref&gt;{{sc|a.u.c.}} 709.&lt;/ref&gt; that they might not be obliged to give their assent to the proposal. Instead, therefore, of caballing any longer separately, in small parties, they now united their counsels; the people themselves being dissatisfied with the present state of affairs, both privately and publicly&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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The Gauls he dragged in triumph through the town, 
Cæsar has brought into the senate-house, 
And changed their ''plaids''&lt;ref&gt;See before, c. xxii.&lt;/ref&gt; for the patrician gown. 
Gallos Cæsar in triumphum ducit: iidem in curiam
Galli braccas deposuerunt, latum clavum sumpserunt.
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When Quintus Maximus, who had been his deputy in the consulship for the last three months, entered the theatre, and the lictor, according to custom, bid the people take notice who was coming, they all cried out, &quot;He is no consul.&quot; After the removal of Cæsetius and Marullus from their office, they were found to have a great many votes at the next election of consuls. Some one wrote under the statue of Lucius Brutus, &quot;Would you were now alive!&quot; and under the statue of Cæsar himself these lines:&lt;blockquote&gt;
{{ppoem| 
Because he drove from Rome the royal race,
Brutus was first made consul in their place. 
This man, because he put the consuls down, 
Has been rewarded with a royal crown. 
Brutus, quia reges ejecit, consul primus factus est: 
Hie, quia consules ejecit, rex postremo factus est.}}&lt;/blockquote&gt;
About sixty persons were engaged in the conspiracy against him, of whom Caius Cassius, and Marcus and Decimus Brutus were the chief. It was at first debated amongst them, whether they should attack him in the Campus Martius when he was taking the votes of the tribes, and some of them should throw him off the bridge, whilst others should be ready to stab him upon his fall; or else in the Via Sacra, or at the entrance of the theatre. But after public notice had been given by proclamation for the senate to assemble upon the ides of March [15th March], in the senate-house built by Pompey, they approved both of the time and place, as most fitting for their purpose.

LXXXI. Cæsar had warning given him of his fate by {{hws|indu|indubitable}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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old sepulchres, in building country-houses, and were the more eager at the work, because they discovered certain vessels of antique workmanship, a tablet of brass was found in a tomb, in which Capys, the founder of Capua, was said to have been buried, with an inscription in the Greek language to this effect: &quot;Whenever the bones of Capys come to be discovered, a descendant of Iulus will be slain by the hands of his kinsmen, and his death revenged by fearful disasters throughout Italy.&quot; Lest any person should regard this anecdote as a fabulous or silly invention, it was circulated upon the authority of Caius Balbus, an intimate friend of Cæsar's. A few days likewise before his death, he was informed that the horses, which, upon his crossing the Rubicon, he had consecrated, and turned loose to graze without a keeper, abstained entirely from eating, and shed floods of tears. The soothsayer Spurinna, observing certain ominous appearances in a sacrifice which he was offering, advised him to beware of some danger, which threatened to befall him before the ides of March were past. The day before the ides, birds of various kinds from a neighbouring grove, pursuing a wren which flew into Pompey's senate-house,&lt;ref&gt;This senate-house stood in that part of the Campus Martius which is now the Campo di Fiore, and was attached by Pompey, &quot;spoliis Orientis Onustus,&quot; to the magnificent theatre, which he built {{sc|a.u.c.}} 698, in his second consulship. His statue, at the foot of which Cæsar fell, as Plutarch tells us, was placed in it. We shall find that Augustus caused it to be removed.&lt;/ref&gt; with a sprig of laurel in its beak, tore it in pieces. Also, in the night on which the day of his murder dawned, he dreamt at one time that he was soaring above the clouds, and, at another, that he had joined hands with Jupiter. His wife Calpurnia fancied in her sleep that the pediment of the house was falling down, and her husband stabbed on her bosom; immediately upon which the chamber doors flew open. On account of these omens, as well as his infirm health, he was in some doubt whether he should not remain at home, and defer to some other opportunity the business which he intended to propose to the senate; but Decimus Brutus advising him not to disappoint the senators, who were numerously assembled, and waited his coming, he was prevailed upon to go, and {{hws|ac|accordingly}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="4792" sha1="5tmrkk7awg4oclcdfdr02o2wn44dm6b" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;The Girl who Played Greta Garbo&quot; /&gt;{{c|{{xxx-larger|The Girl who Played Greta Garbo}}

{{xx-larger|Hired to double, she literally became the Swedish star}}

{{larger|By Lois Shirley}}
}}


[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 29 - Greta Garbo.png|center|250px]]
{{c|'''Greta Garbo herself—The white flame of Sweden. Note the uncanny resemblance of the extra girl opposite to the popular star'''}}

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 29 - Geraldine de Vorak.png|center|250px]]
{{c|'''Geraldine De Vorak—Greta's double. The resemblance is remarkable. Physically she is the same to the half-inch in measurement'''}}


{{di|G|fl=&quot;}}OTT! She looks like me!&quot;

Greta Greta Garbo, seated in the dark projection room, saw her exact likeness flashed across the screen. The gowns made for her newest picture were being modeled by her double.

&quot;You like this frock, Miss Garbo?&quot; the costume designer asked.

&quot;Oh, yes, O.K.&quot; she said absently. Her interest was not in the way the dresses hung, nor how the colors photographed. She was held by the amazing likeness she saw before her. &quot;Dot girl! Gott, don't she look like me?&quot;

There are two Garbos in Hollywood. 

One is the white flame from Sweden. 

The other is Geraldine De Vorak, her double. 

Geraldine's duties consist in having gowns fitted on her, in making wardrobe tests and in standing in front of the camera until the lights are ready. Occasionally she is used for a long shot to save the star's energy. 

She has assumed more specific duties than these. Having become a figment of her own imagination, she has taken it upon herself to play the role of Garbo. She is what Garbo should be and isn't. 

She is Greta Garbo's private life. 

Her physical requirements are exact. Greta and Geraldine measure the same to the half inch, weigh the same to the half pound. Their faces are shaped alike. 

Geraldine has everything that Garbo has except ''whatever it is that Garbo has''. To the latter has been given a great, vital talent. To the other an imagination only. An imagination so demanding that she has been able to re-create herself in the likeness of the Garbo. 

Psychologically, the thing is sound. 

Garbo's own private life does not suit the silver sheet lady of passion. The off-screen Garbo is hopelessly young, as gauche as a farmer boy and as timid as a younger sister. Her tweed coats are the despair of the modistes. She wears her little sports hats pulled tight down over her ears. 

Her dislike of grandeur amounts to a passion. It is her delight to pass up limousines in her shiny little Ford. She has attended but one ''premiere''. She has never crossed the sacred portal of Eddie Brandstatter's Montmartre Cafe. A publicity man's camera is a red signal for flight. 

These outward manifestations she leaves, ironically enough, to an extra girl on a forty dollar a week salary. Greta takes the cash and Geraldine the credit. 

The paraphernalia of stardom is anathema to Garbo. At heart she is a simple Swedish girl, and the sudden success that now surrounds her is not worth a single white-capped wave on a Scandinavian sea. 

She is, I'm afraid, a bitter disappointment to the executives at the studio. Not from a box office standpoint, mind you. The shekels she has brought in are of bright, true gold. But she has failed as a private life star. 

Such a dazzling personality on the screen! She might see her picture in every paper in every city every day. But she refuses to do anything to put it there. She leaves the studio at night and goes straight home. She pulls her little sports hat over her eyes and travels the world incognito. 


{{di|S}}TARDOM bores her, so she leaves her glittering, dazzling, successful garments at the studio. And there Geraldine De Vorak finds them and puts them on. 

Strange—that to the one should be given the divine gift and to the other only the desire. 

Garbo is the actress. De Vorak, the star. 

Geraldine is everything that a star should be. 

Tweed coats and little sports hats? There's not a one in her wardrobe. She wears what Garbo should wear. Small, interesting toques. Clinging velvet gowns. Furs. 

Her hair is combed back off her face like Garbo's. She walks majestically into the studio commissary and sits alone at a table. She has grace, where Garbo is awkward. She cups her chin in her hands and imagines that she is Garbo. 

Strange—that two women should be made in the same mould. They are alike, completely alike, physically. But one has, in some inexplicable manner, clasped a feather of the bird of beauty. 

Geraldine, living in a world of her own making, ignores the difference in their stations. To Garbo the acclaim is nothing. She doesn't care a Swedish herring 
&lt;section end=&quot;The Girl who Played Greta Garbo&quot; /&gt;
{{c|[PLEASE TURN TO PAGE 108]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;''music begins. HE seats himself on the sofa with his legs crossed, and yawns''.] {{dent/e}}  {{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}} He, you have something none of my ancestors ever had—money. Let’s have a nice bottle on you. Waiter, please—[''The waiter who was taking up dishes, brings a bottle of wine and glasses and goes out''.]  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  You’re blue, Mancini. [''Stretches''.] Well, at my age, a hundred slaps—it seems pretty hard. So you’re blue. How are things...</comment>
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{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''music begins. HE seats himself on the sofa with his legs crossed, and yawns''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}
He, you have something none of my ancestors ever had—money. Let’s have a nice bottle on you. Waiter, please—[''The waiter who was taking up dishes, brings a bottle of wine and glasses and goes out''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

You’re blue, Mancini. [''Stretches''.] Well, at my age, a hundred slaps—it seems pretty hard. So you’re blue. How are things getting on with your girl?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Tss! Bad! Complications—parents—[''shudders''] Agh—

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Prison!

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}
[''Laughing'']: Prison! Mustn’t I uphold the glory of my name now, eh? {{sc|He}}, I’m joking—but there is Hell in my heart. You’re the only one who under-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{dent/s|2em|-2em}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;''music begins. HE seats himself on the sofa with his legs crossed, and yawns''.]
{{dent/e}}

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}
He, you have something none of my ancestors ever had—money. Let’s have a nice bottle on you. Waiter, please—[''The waiter who was taking up dishes, brings a bottle of wine and glasses and goes out''.]

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

You’re blue, Mancini. [''Stretches''.] Well, at my age, a hundred slaps—it seems pretty hard. So you’re blue. How are things getting on with your girl?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Tss! Bad! Complications—parents—[''shudders''] Agh—

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Prison!

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}
[''Laughing'']: Prison! Mustn’t I uphold the glory of my name now, eh? {{sc|He}}, I’m joking—but there is Hell in my heart. You’re the only one who under-&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/67</title>
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      <text bytes="2689" sha1="n5mmqcp2k5njr7chmfxymio0sjknwaz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|julius cæsar.}}|51}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|cordingly|accordingly}} set forward about the fifth hour. In his way, some person having thrust into his hand a paper, warning him against the plot, he mixed it with some other documents which he held in his left hand, intending to read it at leisure. Victim after victim was slain, without any favourable appearances in the entrails; but still, disregarding all omens, he entered the senate-house, laughing at Spurinna as a false prophet, because the ides of March were come, without any mischief having befallen him. To which the soothsayer replied, &quot;They are come, indeed, but not past.&quot;

LXXXII. When he had taken his seat, the conspirators stood round him, under colour of paying their compliments; and immediately Tullius Cimber, who had engaged to commence the assault, advancing nearer than the rest, as if he had some favour to request, Cæsar made signs that he should defer his petition to some other time. Tullius immediately seized him by the toga, on both shoulders; at which Cæsar crying out, &quot;Violence is meant!&quot; one of the Cassii wounded him a little below the throat. Cæsar seized him by the arm, and ran it through with his style;&lt;ref&gt;The ''stylus'', or ''graphium'', was an iron pen, broad at one end, with a sharp point at the other, used for writing upon waxen tables, the leaves or bark of trees, plates of brass, or lead, &amp;c. For writing upon paper or parchment, the Romans employed a reed, sharpened and split in the point like our pens, called ''calamus'', ''arundo'', or ''canna''. This they dipped in the black liquor emitted by the cuttle fish, which served for ink.&lt;/ref&gt; and endeavouring to rush forward was stopped by another wound. Finding himself now attacked on all hands with naked poniards, he wrapped the toga&lt;ref&gt;It was customary among the ancients, in great extremities to shroud the face, in order to conceal any symptoms of horror or alarm which the countenance might express. The skirt of the ''toga'' was drawn round the lower extremities, that there might be no exposure in falling, as the Romans, at this period, wore no covering for the thighs and legs.&lt;/ref&gt; about his head, and at the same moment drew the skirt round his legs with his left hand, that he might fall more decently with the lower part of his body covered. He was stabbed with three 
and twenty wounds, uttering a groan only, but no cry, at the first wound; although some authors relate, that when Marcus Brutus fell upon him, he exclaimed, &quot;What! art thou, too, 
one of them? Thou, my son!&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;p51&quot;&gt;Cæsar's dying apostrophe to Brutus is represented in all the editions&lt;/ref&gt; The whole assembly {{hws|in|instantly}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Photoplay (1929-08).pdf/108</title>
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[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 108 - No-Bak Brassiere.png|center|200px|No-Bak Brassiere]]

&lt;section end=&quot;Advertisement&quot; /&gt;
{{rule}}{{c|{{larger|The Girl Who Played Greta Garbo}}}}{{rule}}
{{c|[CONTINUED FROM PAGE 29]}}

&lt;section begin=&quot;The Girl who Played Greta Garbo&quot; /&gt;that assistant directors stand up when she passes by. And Geraldine has so reconstructed her mind that she fancies they stand up when she walks on the set. In reality they do not even find her a comfortable chair. 


{{di|G}}ERALDINE sits close by the star all day long on the set. She watches her every move. When interviewers arrive and Garbo refuses to see them, Geraldine fancies that they have sought her and she imagines what she would have said to them. What magnificent interviews she could give. Would that she were Garbo! 

In her simple room with its meagre furnishings at the Studio Club, her life is really lived. The little, plain bed becomes a canopied couch, with solid gold cupids to hold hack the silken drapes. Her ordinary white bathtub becomes a sunken pool of black marble and gold. The ivory comb and brush set is genuine Lalique studded in diamonds. She wears the figurative crown of the queen, while Garbo, herself, chooses the staid, quiet atmosphere of the Beverly Hills Hotel. 

It is Geraldine's delight to be mistaken for the star and it is a common enough mistake for Garbo's awkward slouch and dowdy clothes to allow her to pass unnoticed in the crowd. Geraldine has the grace and is to the manner of stardom born. An out-of-town visitor told a friend of his great news. 

&quot;Where does anyone get the idea that Garbo never goes out?&quot; he said. &quot;Why, I saw her at Plantation the other night with a bunch of people. She was the gayest of the gay. She was dressed in a gorgeous gown and was the center of an admiring group. And she was sweet enough to smile graciously at everybody.&quot;

Upon that particular evening Greta Garbo, the actress, was in her room at the hotel reading a script. 

Her private life had been at Plantation. 

The rumor spread in Hollywood that Garbo had come back from Europe several weeks before scheduled time. One of the newspaper reporters had a friend who said that Garbo was seen in a smart shop buying a pair of grey suede gloves. Her double had needed gloves. 

In order to supplement her meagre income Geraldine is one of the regular models at Montmartre on Wednesday. As she arrives and leaves the sight-seers mistake her for Garbo. 

Geraldine De Vorak was born to Hollywood stardom, as Garbo was not. Garbo acts for the camera. Geraldine pleases the public. 

The other extra girls complain that the double is haughty. What woman who wears the royal raiment would not be? It is her right to live up to what she has made herself. 

There is little in common between star and double. Garbo sits in wide-eyed wonder at the striking likeness between herself and her stand-in girl. Geraldine dismisses Garbo with a gesture. ''She'' is Garbo. 


{{di|B}}UT the Frankenstein that she has built within herself has become her undoing. She copied the master too closely. She made herself too nearly in the image of Garbo. 

Garbo arrives on the set at her own leisure. 

Geraldine arrives on the set at her own leisure. 

Garbo, the great actress, may conduct herself thus. 

Geraldine, an extra girl acting as double to a star, may not. 

Geraldine's slight contract was broken. She returned to the extra ranks. 

Garbo's new double does not look so much like her, but her hair is more nearly the same color. It is better for the lights. 

Will the new double play the Garbo role? 

Or has Geraldine floated so long upon the Lethean waters of stardom that her life will always be colored by the amazing interlude when she played at being Garbo? Has she so definitely become a star that the long discouraging hours of extra work will be only a cross that every star must bear? Surely her imagination will override time and place and discomfort! 

&lt;section end=&quot;The Girl who Played Greta Garbo&quot; /&gt;
{{rule}}{{c|{{larger|Excess Baggage}}}}{{rule}}
{{c|[CONTINUED FROM PAGE 41]}}

&lt;section begin=&quot;Excess Baggage&quot; /&gt;the happy, ordinary couple from Portland. Harry hopes for a reconciliation. But it won't work. It doesn't ever. Only the play had a happy ending. 

Helen and Clarke Twelvetrees were reconciled when there was talk of a divorce. But how long will that last? How long can it last? 


{{di|I}}N New York, Clarke, as an actor, was better known than his actress wife. Even that name, that splendid, unforgettable, box office name belongs to him. He had played leads on Broadway. &quot;An American Tragedy.&quot; &quot;Elmer Gantry&quot; and others. Perhaps he had contributed a meed of beauty to the pattern of existence, while she had done only secondary roles. But during the beginning of the hectic talkie era one of the Fox officials saw Helen on the stage, noted her amazing resemblance to Lillian Gish and sent her to Hollywood with a nice, fat contract bulging from her hand bag.

Clarke came along, too. They always do. It's the last gesture of husbandry.

Helen achieved immediate notice. She was made a Wampas baby star and given good parts. Clarke was left in the background, unable to cope with his wife's fame. IIe was a good actor, but he didn't have a photographic face. So he is trying to write and while Helen is at the studio, growing more and more famous and more and more popular, he stays at home and struggles with dialogue and manuscript. 

Clarke Twelvetrees thinks he can write. 

So did Jaimie del Rio when he found that Dolores was leaving him behind. 

Shrouded in mystery is the marriage and annulment which occurred a few days after Christmas of Jean Arthur and Julian Ancker. The papers carried the story that their honeymoon was cut short by Jean's discovery of a clause in her Paramount contract that prohibited her marrying. She immediately packed up her trousseau and went back to the studio. According to Ancker efforts on his part to persuade her to recognize her marriage contract failed. He received the annulment. 


{{di|W}}AS this another case of excess baggage? I wondered. But when Jean was questioned she fell into a violent case of weeping, left the studio before I got there, with instructions to one of the office boys to hand me the following note, &quot;My career had nothing to do with the annulment. It was an extremely unhappy event which I wish to forget as quickly as possible.&quot;

But it was another case of excess baggage
&lt;section end=&quot;Excess Baggage&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 108 - No-Bak Brassiere.png|center|200px|No-Bak Brassiere]]

&lt;section end=&quot;Advertisement&quot; /&gt;
{{rule}}{{c|{{larger|The Girl Who Played Greta Garbo}}}}{{rule}}
{{c|[CONTINUED FROM PAGE 29]}}

&lt;section begin=&quot;The Girl who Played Greta Garbo&quot; /&gt;that assistant directors stand up when she passes by. And Geraldine has so reconstructed her mind that she fancies they stand up when she walks on the set. In reality they do not even find her a comfortable chair. 


{{di|G}}ERALDINE sits close by the star all day long on the set. She watches her every move. When interviewers arrive and Garbo refuses to see them, Geraldine fancies that they have sought her and she imagines what she would have said to them. What magnificent interviews she could give. Would that she were Garbo! 

In her simple room with its meagre furnishings at the Studio Club, her life is really lived. The little, plain bed becomes a canopied couch, with solid gold cupids to hold hack the silken drapes. Her ordinary white bathtub becomes a sunken pool of black marble and gold. The ivory comb and brush set is genuine Lalique studded in diamonds. She wears the figurative crown of the queen, while Garbo, herself, chooses the staid, quiet atmosphere of the Beverly Hills Hotel. 

It is Geraldine's delight to be mistaken for the star and it is a common enough mistake for Garbo's awkward slouch and dowdy clothes to allow her to pass unnoticed in the crowd. Geraldine has the grace and is to the manner of stardom born. An out-of-town visitor told a friend of his great news. 

&quot;Where does anyone get the idea that Garbo never goes out?&quot; he said. &quot;Why, I saw her at Plantation the other night with a bunch of people. She was the gayest of the gay. She was dressed in a gorgeous gown and was the center of an admiring group. And she was sweet enough to smile graciously at everybody.&quot;

Upon that particular evening Greta Garbo, the actress, was in her room at the hotel reading a script. 

Her private life had been at Plantation. 

The rumor spread in Hollywood that Garbo had come back from Europe several weeks before scheduled time. One of the newspaper reporters had a friend who said that Garbo was seen in a smart shop buying a pair of grey suede gloves. Her double had needed gloves. 

In order to supplement her meagre income Geraldine is one of the regular models at Montmartre on Wednesday. As she arrives and leaves the sight-seers mistake her for Garbo. 

Geraldine De Vorak was born to Hollywood stardom, as Garbo was not. Garbo acts for the camera. Geraldine pleases the public. 

The other extra girls complain that the double is haughty. What woman who wears the royal raiment would not be? It is her right to live up to what she has made herself. 

There is little in common between star and double. Garbo sits in wide-eyed wonder at the striking likeness between herself and her stand-in girl. Geraldine dismisses Garbo with a gesture. ''She'' is Garbo. 


{{di|B}}UT the Frankenstein that she has built within herself has become her undoing. She copied the master too closely. She made herself too nearly in the image of Garbo. 

Garbo arrives on the set at her own leisure. 

Geraldine arrives on the set at her own leisure. 

Garbo, the great actress, may conduct herself thus. 

Geraldine, an extra girl acting as double to a star, may not. 

Geraldine's slight contract was broken. She returned to the extra ranks. 

Garbo's new double does not look so much like her, but her hair is more nearly the same color. It is better for the lights. 

Will the new double play the Garbo role? 

Or has Geraldine floated so long upon the Lethean waters of stardom that her life will always be colored by the amazing interlude when she played at being Garbo? Has she so definitely become a star that the long discouraging hours of extra work will be only a cross that every star must bear? Surely her imagination will override time and place and discomfort! 

&lt;section end=&quot;The Girl who Played Greta Garbo&quot; /&gt;
{{rule}}{{c|{{larger|Excess Baggage}}}}{{rule}}
{{c|[CONTINUED FROM PAGE 41]}}

&lt;section begin=&quot;Excess Baggage&quot; /&gt;the happy, ordinary couple from Portland. Harry hopes for a reconciliation. But it won't work. It doesn't ever. Only the play had a happy ending. 

Helen and Clarke Twelvetrees were reconciled when there was talk of a divorce. But how long will that last? How long can it last? 


{{di|I}}N New York, Clarke, as an actor, was better known than his actress wife. Even that name, that splendid, unforgettable, box office name belongs to him. He had played leads on Broadway. &quot;An American Tragedy.&quot; &quot;Elmer Gantry&quot; and others. Perhaps he had contributed a meed of beauty to the pattern of existence, while she had done only secondary roles. But during the beginning of the hectic talkie era one of the Fox officials saw Helen on the stage, noted her amazing resemblance to Lillian Gish and sent her to Hollywood with a nice, fat contract bulging from her hand bag.

Clarke came along, too. They always do. It's the last gesture of husbandry.

Helen achieved immediate notice. She was made a Wampas baby star and given good parts. Clarke was left in the background, unable to cope with his wife's fame. He was a good actor, but he didn't have a photographic face. So he is trying to write and while Helen is at the studio, growing more and more famous and more and more popular, he stays at home and struggles with dialogue and manuscript. 

Clarke Twelvetrees thinks he can write. 

So did Jaimie del Rio when he found that Dolores was leaving him behind. 

Shrouded in mystery is the marriage and annulment which occurred a few days after Christmas of Jean Arthur and Julian Ancker. The papers carried the story that their honeymoon was cut short by Jean's discovery of a clause in her Paramount contract that prohibited her marrying. She immediately packed up her trousseau and went back to the studio. According to Ancker efforts on his part to persuade her to recognize her marriage contract failed. He received the annulment. 


{{di|W}}AS this another case of excess baggage? I wondered. But when Jean was questioned she fell into a violent case of weeping, left the studio before I got there, with instructions to one of the office boys to hand me the following note, &quot;My career had nothing to do with the annulment. It was an extremely unhappy event which I wish to forget as quickly as possible.&quot;

But it was another case of excess baggage
&lt;section end=&quot;Excess Baggage&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Lady Susan</title>
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      <comment>recreate as dab per PD discussion</comment>
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* &quot;[[A Memoir of Jane Austen/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[A Memoir of Jane Austen]]'' (1879)
* &quot;[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen/Volume 11|The Novels and Letters of Jane Austen, Volume 11]]'' (1906)
* &quot;[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea/Lady Susan|Lady Susan]]&quot; from ''[[Sanditon And Other Miscellanea]]'' (1934) {{small scan link|Austen Sanditon and other miscellanea.djvu}}</text>
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      <text bytes="3929" sha1="cyvx818ntx6b010bjpjl8hi7rd9ty3l" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Excess Baggage&quot; /&gt;when Evelyn Lederer Keefer (Sue Carol) left her husband and came to California. She found a spot in pictures and didn't go back to Chicago. Allan was forgotten and she became engaged, after her divorce, to Nick Stuart, an actor. This gives them an even chance for happiness. 

They are in the same business, with the same hopes and ideals, the same knowledge of the requirements of the motion picture profession. Hundreds of professional marriages have succeeded. The mixed ones fail. And the wise gals are those who, when they fall in love and prepare to marry a man outside the business, give up their own screen work. 


{{di|M}}AY ALLISON gave it up when she married the editor of {{sc|Photoplay}} and has become a regular contributor to Cosmopolitan Magazine. Marguerite Clark did it and is happy. Phyllis Haver has left the screen forever to become Mrs. William Seaman. The other day, when she refused to talk about her husband or her plans, she made a pertinent remark: &quot;William doesn't understand the business. He doesn't know that we tell everything for publication. He would never understand why I should be discussing him and our affairs publicly. And I know that he would never be able to realize what our lives on the screen require. I have found a man I love. I have found someone who satisfies me completely and I'm not taking any chances on readjustments. I'm not going to try to teach him what the necessary gestures of a film star are. I'm just leaving the screen so that I can be happy with a non-professional husband.&quot;

Marian Nixon fell in love with a prize fighter, Joe Benjamin. Unlike Jack Dempsey, he had no patience with the film folk or their ways. Divorce was inevitable. 

Á lengthy blurb in the newspapers recently told that Jacqueline Logan's love for Larry Winston, from whom she has been separated for over a year, is to undergo a super-test. He is to spend the summer in Europe, while she is to stay here. If they still love each other upon his return they are to be re-married. They may be married; they won't be happy. For Winston is the scion of the historic Bradbury family. 

John Regan was also a scion of a wealthy family, but Helene Costello found him excess baggage and they were divorced after a few months together. Regan had been a childhood chum of Helene. There is nothing that brings on incompatibility more quickly. Helene finally grew tired of watching him sitting around the house all day, while she worked from eight to eighteen hours out the twenty-four. But it was not possible for him to take a position that might lower her professional prestige. 


{{di|C}}ONSTANCE BENNETT divorced her multi-millionaire husband, Phil Plant, not long ago. She is coming back to go into pictures. 

Constance Talmadge recently married Townsend Netcher and will give up the screen. Netcher is a wealthy Chicago boy. 

Janet Gaynor has been reported engaged to Lydell Peck, a lawyer. Shouldn't she pause to consider the example of Renee Adoree, who found that nothing but trouble followed after her marriage to William Gill, a business man? 

Madge Bellamy's marriage to Logan Metcalf, a broker, was a failure. Ethlyne Clair soon got a divorce from Dale Hanshaw, a non-professional. And Josephine Dunn who, by the way, played the leading role in the screen version of &quot;Excess Baggage,&quot; learned, to her sorrow, what it meant to have a non-professional husband and a career. 

Those in the profession, writers, actors, directors, executives, editors, publicity men, understand. 

The rest, the brokers, the shoe men, the salesmen, the millionaires, can only bring unhappiness to their wives. 

They will always be excess baggage. 

&lt;section end=&quot;Excess Baggage&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Advertisement&quot; /&gt;{{rule}}

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 109 - The Battle Creek Health Builder.png|center|400px|The Battle Creek Health Builder]]
&lt;section end=&quot;Advertisement&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2859" sha1="guvzchv3k9trshay2vudglqr066xy0q" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|52|{{sc|suetonius.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;ref follow=&quot;p51&quot;&gt;of Suetonius as uttered in Greek, but with some variations. The words, as here translated, are καὶ σὺ εἶ ἐκείνων; καὶ σὺ. The Salmasian manuscript omits the latter clause. Some commentators suppose that the words, &quot;my son,&quot; were not merely expressive of the difference of age, or former familiarity between them, but an avowal that Brutus was the fruit of the connection between Julius and Servilia, mentioned before [see p. 33]. But it appears very improbable that Cæsar, who had never before acknowledged Brutus to be his son, should make so unnecessary an avowal, at the moment of his death. Exclusively of this objection, the apostrophe seems too verbose, both for the suddenness and urgency of the occasion. But this is not all. Can we suppose that Cæsar, though a perfect master of Greek, would at such a time have expressed himself in that language, rather than in Latin, his familiar tongue, and in which he spoke with peculiar elegance? Upon the whole, the probability is, that the words uttered by Cæsar were, ''Et tu Brute!'' which, while equally expressive of astonishment with the other version, and even of tenderness, are both more natural, and more emphatic.&lt;/ref&gt;
{{hwe|stantly|instantly}} dispersing, he lay for some time after he expired, until three of his slaves laid the body on a litter, and carried it home, with one arm hanging down over the side. Among so many wounds, there was none that was mortal, in the opinion of the surgeon Antistius, except the second, which he received in the breast. The conspirators meant to drag his body into the Tiber as soon as they had killed him; to confiscate his estate, and rescind all his enactments; but they were deterred by fear of Mark Antony, and Lepidus, Cæsar's master of the horse, and abandoned their intentions.

LXXXIII. At the instance of Lucius Piso, his father-in-law, his will was opened and read in Mark Antony’s house. He had made it on the ides [13th] of the preceding September, at his Lavican villa, and committed it to the custody of the chief of the Vestal Virgins. Quintus Tubero informs us, that in all the wills he had signed, from the time of his first consulship to the breaking out of the civil war, Cneius Pompey was appointed his heir, and that this had been publicly notified to the army. But in his last will, he named three heirs, the grandsons of his sisters; namely, Caius Octavius for three fourths of his estate, and Lucius Pinarius and Quintus Pedius for the remaining fourth. Other heirs [in remainder] were named at the close of the will, in which he also adopted Caius Octavius, who was to assume his name, into his family; and nominated most of those who were concerned in his death among the guardians of his son, if he should have any; as well as Decimus Brutus&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Reminiscences of St. Andrews.
A Paper found amongst the Effects of the Late John Campbell, Esq.,
Dated June, 1878.
HE recent publica-
tion of the names
of the several
streets in St. An-
drews, reminds
one of the old
time boys of the
Shire Town, of its
appearance as far back as his recollection dates say,
nearly seventy years ago. **Water Street at that time
was pretty well dotted with buildings, while the other
parallel streets had but few houses, and the streets at
right angles were but little improved beyond Queen
Street. Taking the easterly side of Water Street at the
corner of Harriet, was the residence of Peter Stubs,
Esq., who at the time carried on mercantile business
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Water Street on the West Side. The next buildings in
the street were between Mary and Adolphus Streets,
viz.: Springate's, Goldsmith's, White and Shaw; cross-
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of the block on the corner, Mr. Campbell a residence in
the centre of the block, approached by a carriage way.
and Miss McKenzie resided on the corner of Elizabeth
Street; diagonally opposite was the residence of John.
Wilson, Esq., passing down Water Street were the
several buildings occupied by McGrath, Patterson the
watchmaker, Muir, Parkinson, with Mrs. Strang's
house on the corner, in which C. Scott had his office
*Son of Colin Campbell, who married a daughter of Lieut. James
Campbell of the 54th Regiment.
211
About 1810.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{xx-larger|''Our film girls check their non-professional spouses with the Judge''}}

{{x-larger|By Katherine Albert}}
}}

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 40 - Lowell Sherman and Pauline Garon.png|center|350px|Lowell Sherman and Pauline Garon]]
{{c|'''A picture of Lowell Sherman and Pauline Garon taken in the joyous days when the love-birds still twittered. Both were players there might have been happiness. But soon Polly packed up and departed'''}}

{{di|T}}HE play, &quot;Excess Baggage,&quot; ended happily. 

It doesn't work out so nicely in real life. 

And this poignant little drama, set down by the thousands who saw it as fiction merely, is, with the exception of the final fadeout, gospel truth. Its three acts are played out almost daily behind the motion picture cameras in Hollywood. 

Every time you cross a studio lot you find yourself knee deep in excess baggage. You see the non-professional husbands of the younger players. Their eyes are bewildered as they, baffled at the state they have found themselves in, realize the fame and glory of their wives. 

On these pages you see four smiling brides and four grinning grooms. Renee Adoree and Bill Gill, Helene Costello and Jack Regan, Pauline Garon and Lowell Sherman, Dorothy Mackaill and Lothar Mendes—all happy enough until the grins turned to glowers and the husbands became {{SIC|ecxess|excess}} baggage—checked at the station. 

John Regan, Allan Keefer, Harry Rosebloom, Julian Ancker, Logan Metcalf—unfamiliar names, aren't they? Yet they are the excess baggage of Hollywood. They were, at one time, the husbands of Helene Costello, Sue Carol, Jeanette Loff, Jean Arthur and Madge Bellamy, respectively. 

You remember the stage and film story of &quot;Excess Baggage&quot;? It concerned a tight rope walker whose wife—and also his inspiration—was singled out for a film career. She had been excess baggage to him, her sole ''raison d'etre'' being to hand him parasols. But when Hollywood bore down upon them, he found himself the second rate member of the family. 

These non-professional husbands who do not speak the easy, unconventional language of the screen or, as in the case of Marian Nixon and Joe Benjamin, speak it too fluently, hamper the professional growth of their wives. There is a strange barrier between them. It concerns money. The men can't hope to compete with their wives' salaries, yet can they, without losing prestige, dig ditches? And even if the husbands have money of their own the fame and attractiveness of their wives give them a second-hand position. 

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 40 - Renee Adoree and William Gill.png|center|350px|Renee Adoree and William Gill]]
{{c|'''Actress Renee Adoree and Businessman William Gill caught in the act of worshipping each other at the time of their marriage. But soon the royal road to the studio and the dusty path of trade diverged, and Mr. Gill was marked excess baggage in the world of screen art'''}}

{{di|J}}EANETTE LOFF'S case is fairly typical. Three years or so ago she married Harry Rosebloom in Portland. He was a salesman, she was an organist at one of the theaters. They were young and contented. They were ordinary. Their lives took on the color of every other young married couple in America. His men friends. Her girl friends. Bridge parties. Sunday night suppers. Laughter. Hopes. Ambition. The savings account at the bank going nicely enough, thank you, for Jeanette to have a fur coat next year. Or maybe the first payment on the house.
{{nop}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Excess Baggage&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;320  ACADIENSIS.  {{blackletter|Old magazines of Canada Wanted}}. {{ppoem| Amaranth, St. John, N. B., 2 Vols. Acadian Magazine, Halifax, N. S., 2 Vols., 1826-28. Anglo-American Magazine, Toronto, 7 Vols., 1852-57. Barker’s Canadian Magazine, Kingston, 1 Vol., 1846-47. British Canadian Review, Quebec, 1 Vol., 1862-63. British Colonial Magazine, Toronto, 1 Vol., 1853. Bystander, Toronto, 4 Vols., 1880-90. Canadian Home Journal, Toronto, 8 Vols., 1893-1900....</comment>
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ACADIENSIS.

{{blackletter|Old magazines of Canada Wanted}}.
{{ppoem|
Amaranth, St. John, N. B., 2 Vols.
Acadian Magazine, Halifax, N. S., 2 Vols., 1826-28.
Anglo-American Magazine, Toronto, 7 Vols., 1852-57.
Barker’s Canadian Magazine, Kingston, 1 Vol., 1846-47.
British Canadian Review, Quebec, 1 Vol., 1862-63.
British Colonial Magazine, Toronto, 1 Vol., 1853.
Bystander, Toronto, 4 Vols., 1880-90.
Canadian Home Journal, Toronto, 8 Vols., 1893-1900.
Canadian Literary Magazine, York, 1 Vol., 1833.
Canadian Magazine, Montreal, 4 Vols., 1823-25.
Canadian Magazine, Toronto, 1 Vol., 1833.
Canadian Magazine, Toronto. 2 Vols., 1871.
Canadian Merchants’ Magazine, Toronto, 5 Vols., 1857- 59.
Canadian Patriot, Montreal, 1 Vol., 1866.
Canadian Quarterly Review, Toronto, 1 Vol., 1863-64.
Canadian Review and Magazine, Montreal, 3 Vols., 1824-26.
Cape Breton and Nova Scotia Magazine, Sydney.
Dominion Illustrated Monthly, Montreal, 3 Vols., 1892-93.
Dominion Review, Toronto, 4 Vols., 1896-99.
Great West, The, Winnipeg, 14 Vols., 1891-8.
Halifax Monthly Magazine, Halifax, 3 Vols., 1830-33.
Lake Magazine, Toronto, I Vol., 1892-93.
Literary Garland, Montreal, 14 Vols., 1833-51.
Manitoban, The, Winnipeg, 2 Vols., 1892-93.
P. E. I. Magazine, 1st Vol., Charlottetown, P. E. I.
Also, any books, pamphlets, photographs, maps, engravings,
old newspapers, or other data relating to the Maritime
Provinces of Canada.
D. R. JACK,
St. John, N. B.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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A spoiled dessert. A shopping tour with one of the girls. Christmas presents much too expensive and therefore much more precious. Little sacrifices. Little hopes. Little ambitions. 

An ordinary life, if you will. But there is something so secure about being ordinary. There is something that touches glory in being young and contented. 

And then the little hopes and the little ambitions grew into large ones. All day long as Jeanette played the organ at the theater she watched girls no prettier than she (hadn't Harry told her how beautiful she was?) go through their screen tricks. So she came to Holly wood to go into the movies. 

Being young and contented had meant something in Portland. But in Hollywood it was being young and unattached that counted. Suddenly her life was changed. She found herself achieving fame and a fair amount of fortune. A fame and fortune with which Harry, her husband, had nothing to do. It was not being a wife, but being an actress that counted. Harry had no place in her new life. 

He came on from Portland, of course. He found it hard to get any sort of job in the new city, but much more difficult to find a position that was worthy of the name he bore, the name of Jeanette Loff's husband. 

Jeanette Loff's husband. And, like the heroine in &quot;Excess Baggage,&quot; she told no one that she was married. It was not that she was ashamed of him. Gracious, no! But there is something psychological about being unattached. It concerns not so much the fans, as you might imagine, but the directors and producers. Not that any of them wanted to marry her, but they, subconsciously, wanted the knowledge that they could if they chose. A subtle intangible thing that assumed important proportions. Important to a film career. 

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 41 - Helene Costello and John Regan.png|center|300px|Helene Costello and John Regan]]
{{c|'''A handsome pair if ever one stood up—Helene Costello and young John Regan. But Jack was a non-professional, and didn't understand things, and a divorce separated two kid sweethearts forever'''}}

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 41 - Dorothy Mackaill and Lothar Mendes.png|center|400px|Dorothy Mackaill and Lothar Mendes]]
{{c|'''Dorothy Mackaill smiles happily as the judge hands her the fateful paper that makes her one with Lothar Mendes, the director. It wasn't long, however, until she grinned when another one handed her a note that made them two again'''}}

{{di|H}}ARRY went to a couple of parties with Jeanette and they both realized that it was all quite impossible. It was a mixed marriage and by that I mean a marriage between a professional and a non-professional, and it simply wouldn't work. 

They talked it over quite calmly. They were both unreasonable, of course. They were both right. Jeanette, by this time, knew the demands of a film career. Harry couldn't (or wouldn't) understand. He was immensely proud of her, but not willing to accede to the dictates of this strange business. Not willing to be tolerant when her job (he couldn't realize how a mere job could be so all enveloping) made it necessary for her to be nice to and smile upon people who bored her. He couldn't understand why it was good business to be seen at various parties, to give her time to people who meant nothing to her. 

And Jeanette knew that this was part of her job, as vital a part as putting on grease paint in the morning. It was nobody's fault. It was the situation itself. 

So they separated, 
&lt;section end=&quot;Excess Baggage&quot; /&gt;
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      <text bytes="2325" sha1="5ol6fukd7qd6jm7a4ibjypmmhl60qd8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|julius cæsar.}}|53}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;amongst his heirs of the second order. He bequeathed to the Roman people his gardens near the Tiber, and three hundred sesterces each man.
 
LXXXIV. Notice of his funeral having been solemnly proclaimed, a pile was erected in the Campus Martius, near the tomb of his daughter Julia; and before the Rostra was placed a gilded tabernacle, on the model of the temple of Venus Genitrix; within which was an ivory bed, covered with purple and cloth of gold. At the head was a trophy, with the [bloodstained] robe in which he was slain. It being considered that the whole day would not suffice for carrying the funeral oblations in solemn procession before the corpse, directions were given for every one, without regard to order, to carry them from the city into the Campus Martius, by what way they pleased. To raise pity and indignation for his murder, in the plays acted at the funeral, a passage was sung from Pacuvius's tragedy, entitled, &quot;The Trial for Arms:&quot;&lt;blockquote&gt;
{{ppoem| 
That ever I, unhappy man, should save
Wretches, who thus have brought me to the grave!&lt;ref&gt;Men' me servasse, ut essent qui me perderent?&lt;/ref&gt;
}}&lt;/blockquote&gt;
And some lines also from Attilius's tragedy of &quot;Electra,&quot; to the same effect. Instead of a funeral panegyric, the consul Antony ordered a herald to proclaim to the people the decree of the senate, in which they had bestowed upon him all honours, divine and human; with the oath by which they had engaged themselves for the defence of his person; and to these he added only a few words of his own. The magistrates and others who had formerly filled the highest offices, carried the bier from the Rostra into the Forum. While some proposed that the body should be burnt in the sanctuary of the temple of Jupiter Capitolinus, and others in Pompey's senate-house; on a sudden, two men, with swords by their sides, and spears in their hands, set fire to the bier with lighted torches. The throng around immediately heaped upon it dry faggots, the tribunals and benches of the adjoining courts, and whatever else came to hand. Then the musicians and players stripped off the dresses they wore on the present occasion, taken from the wardrobe of his triumph at spectacles, rent them, and threw them into the flames. The legionaries, also, of his&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2445" sha1="8pm01c6co8b4rxv03bjkj5oj70zvvrs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|54|{{sc|suetonius.}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;veteran bands, cast in their armour, which they had put on in honour of his funeral. Most of the ladies did the same by their ornaments, with the bullæ,&lt;ref&gt;The ''Bulla'', generally made of gold, was a hollow globe, which boys wore upon their breast, pendant from a string or ribbon put round the neck. The sons of freedmen and poor citizens used globes of leather.&lt;/ref&gt; and mantles of their children. In this public mourning there joined a multitude of foreigners, expressing their sorrow according to the fashion of their respective countries; but especially the Jews,&lt;ref&gt;Josephus frequently mentions the benefits conferred on his countrymen by Julius Cæsar. ''Antiq. Jud.'' xiv. 14, 15, 16.&lt;/ref&gt; who for several nights together frequented the spot where the body was burnt.

LXXXV. The populace ran from the funeral, with torches in their hands, to the houses of Brutus and Cassius, and were repelled with difficulty. Going in quest of Cornelius Cinna, who had in a speech, the day before, reflected severely upon Cæsar, and mistaking for him Helvius Cinna, who happened to fall into their hands, they murdered the latter, and carried his head about the city on the point of a spear. They afterwards erected in the Forum a column of Numidian marble, formed of one stone nearly twenty feet high, and inscribed upon it these words, {{sc|To the Father of his Country}}. At this column they continued for a long time to offer sacrifices, make vows, and decide controversies, in which they swore by Cæsar.

LXXXVI. Some of Cæsar's friends entertained a suspicion, that he neither desired nor cared to live any longer, on account of his declining health; and for that reason slighted all the omens of religion, and the warnings of his friends. Others are of opinion, that thinking himself secure in the late decree of the senate, and their oaths, he dismissed his Spanish guards who attended him with drawn swords. Others again suppose, that he chose rather to face at once the dangers which threatened him on all sides, than to be forever on the watch against them. Some tell us that he used to say, the commonwealth was more interested in the safety of his person than himself: for that he had for some time been satiated with power and glory; but that the commonwealth, if any thing should befall him, would have no rest, and, involved in another civil war, would be in a worse state than before.&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Author:Gaspar de San Agustín</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{author  | firstname    = Gaspar   | lastname     = de San Agustín  | last_initial = Sa  | description  = Spanish Augustinian friar and writer who ministered in the Philippines from 1677 to 1711 in various provinces and posts.  }}  ==Works==  * ''Conquistas de las islas Philipinas'' (1698) ** ''Conquistas de las islas Philipinas: la temporal, por las armas del Señor Don Phelipe Segundo el Prudente; y la espiritual, por los religiosos del Orden de Nuestro Padre San Aug...&quot;</comment>
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 | lastname     = de San Agustín
 | last_initial = Sa
 | description  = Spanish Augustinian friar and writer who ministered in the Philippines from 1677 to 1711 in various provinces and posts.
 }}

==Works==

* ''Conquistas de las islas Philipinas'' (1698)
** ''Conquistas de las islas Philipinas: la temporal, por las armas del Señor Don Phelipe Segundo el Prudente; y la espiritual, por los religiosos del Orden de Nuestro Padre San Augustin … Parte primera. …'' [Conquest of the Philippine islands: temporally by the weapons of Don Phelipe II the Prudent, and spiritually by the religious of the Order of our Father San Augustin … First part.] (1698). {{ext scan link|1=https://bdh-rd.bne.es/viewer.vm?id=0000014663}}
** ''Conquistas de las Islas Filipinas … Parte Segunda que a beneficio de los materiales que dejó recopilados el M. R. P. Fr. Gaspar de San Agustín, autor de la primera parte, compuso el Padre Fr. Casimiro Diaz'' [Conquest of the Philippine islands … Second part, composed by Father Fray Casimiro Diaz, thanks to the materials left collected by the Most Reverend Father Fray Gaspar de San Agustín (1890). {{ext scan link|1=https://bvpb.mcu.es/es/consulta/registro.do?id=576418}}

* ''Hieromelissa rythmica'' (1702)
** ''Hieromelissa rythmica'' (1702)
** ''Pars. II.'' (1710).

* ''Adiciones al Arte panayano del P. Méntrida, con varios poemas místicos'' [Additions to the Panayan Grammar of Father Méntrida, with various mystic poems]. Manila (1703)

* ''Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala'' [Compendium of the grammar of the Tagalog language] (1703)
** ''Compendio de la arte de la Lengua Tagala'' (first edition, 1703) {{ext scan link|1=https://web.archive.org/web/20250410061823/https://digital.soas.ac.uk/content/LO/AA/00/60/72/00001/LOAA006072.pdf}}
** ''Compendio de la arte de la Lengua Tagala'' (second edition, 1787) {{small scan link|1=Compendio de la arte de la lengua tagala.djvu}}
** ''Compendio del arte de la Lengua Tagala'' (third edition, 1879) {{Commons link|1=Compendio del arte de la lengua Tagala (IA abw8658.0001.001.umich.edu).pdf}}

* ''Descripcion chronologica, y topographica'' (1712)
** ''Descripcion chronologica, y topographica de el sumptuoso templo de Nuestra Señora la Virgen Santissima de Guia, nombrada la Hermita, extra muros de la Ciudad de Manila … compuesto por un Religioso Sacerdote de la Observancia de N. P. S. Augustin'' [Chronological and topographical description of the grand temple of Our Lady the Most Holy Virgin of Guia, called the Hermita, outside the walls of the city of Manila … composed by a religious priest of the Order of our Father San Augustin] (1712) {{ext scan link|1=https://bdh-rd.bne.es/viewer.vm?id=0000081525}}

* ''Confessionario copioso en lengua española, y tagala'' (1713).
** ''Confessionario copioso en lengua española, y tagala. Para direccion de los confessores, y instruccion de los Penitentes.'' [Copious confessionary in the Spanish and Tagalog languages. For the guidance of confessors, and the instruction of penitents.] (second edition, 1787) {{ext scan link|1=https://mdz-nbn-resolving.de/details:bsb10572689}} {{ext scan link|1=http://bdh-rd.bne.es/viewer.vm?id=0000112271}}

* ''Método para oír las confesiones en idioma bisaya'' [Manual for hearing confessions in the Bisaya language]. Manila (1713)

* ''Sumario de las indulgencias de Nuestra Senora de la Correa en idioma tagalo y español'' [Summary of the indulgences of Our Lady of Correa in the Tagalog and Spanish languages]. Manila (1713)

* Letter from Gaspar de San Agustín to his friend in Spain (1720)
**''Carta que escribe un Religioso antiguo de Philipinas à un amigo suyo en España, que le pregunta el Natural, y Genio de los Indios Naturales de estas Islas'' [Letter written by an old religious of the Philippines to his friend in Spain, who asked him about the nature and character of the native Indians of these islands] (1720) {{ext scan link|1=http://bdh-rd.bne.es/viewer.vm?id=0000285633}}
**''Carta que escribe el muy reverendo padre fray Gaspar de san Agustín á un amigo suyo, dándole cuenta del natural y genio de los indios de estas islas Filipinas'' [Letter written by the Most Reverend Father Fray Gaspar de San Agustín to his friend, giving an account of the nature and character of the Indians of these Philippine islands] in ''Biblioteca Histórica Filipina'', vol. 1 (pp. 273-296), by Juan José Delgado (1892) {{IAsl|aqp5054.0001.001.umich.edu/page/273}}

===Undated works===
* ''In B. C. Claram de Monte Falco'', Latin poetry, published in ''Revista Agustininiana'', vol. 6.
* ''La Torre de Babel elucidada'' [The Tower of Babel, explained]
* ''Manipulus sacerdotum''
* ''Nomenclatura de los Religiosos difuntos que pertenecen á esta Provincia de el Smo. nombre de Jesús …'' [Nomenclature of the deceased Religious who belong to this province of the Most Holy Name of Jesus]
* ''Poesías varias en castellano, compuestas con motivo de la jura y exaltación al trono del Principe D. Luis Fernando de Borbón'' [Various poems in Spanish, composed for the purpose of pledging and exaltation to the throne of the Prince, Don Luis Fernando of Bourbon]
* Tagalog translation of a letter by Señor Camacho
* ''Viridarium Parnasi'', a collection of Latin poetry kept in San Agustín de Manila


==Works about de San Agustín==
*&quot;AGUSTÍN (Fray Gaspar de S.)&quot;, in ''Catálogo bio-bibliográfico de los religiosos Agustinos … '' (pp. 133-136), by Elviro J. Pérez (1902) {{ext scan link|1=https://bdh-rd.bne.es/viewer.vm?id=0000059903&amp;page=155}}

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      <text bytes="2059" sha1="3sa30o200nrceq0ac5dy8c8hh3rhbic" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|julius cæsar.}}|55}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;LXXXVII. This, however, was generally admitted, that his death was in many respects such as he would have chosen. For, upon reading the account delivered by Xenophon, how Cyrus in his last illness gave instructions respecting his funeral, Cæsar deprecated a lingering death, and wished that his own might be sudden and speedy. And the day before he died, the conversation at supper, in the house of Marcus Lepidus, turning upon what was the most eligible way of dying, he gave his opinion in favour of a death that is sudden and unexpected.

LXXXVIII. He died in the fifty-sixth year of his age, and was ranked amongst the Gods, not only by a formal decree, but in the belief of the vulgar. For during the first games which Augustus, his heir, consecrated to his memory, a comet blazed for seven days together, rising always about eleven o'clock; and it was supposed to be the soul of Cæsar, now received into heaven: for which reason, likewise, he is represented on his statue with a star on his brow. The senate-house in which he was slain, was ordered to be shut up,&lt;ref&gt;Appian informs us that it was burnt by the people in their fury, B. c. xi. p. 521.&lt;/ref&gt; and a decree made that the ides of March should be called parricidal, and the senate should never more assemble on that day.

LXXXIX. Scarcely any of those who were accessary to his murder, survived him more than three years, or died a natural death.&lt;ref&gt;Suetonius particularly refers to the conspirators, who perished at the battle of Philippi, or in the three years which intervened. The survivors were included in the reconciliation of Augustus, Antony, and Pompey, {{sc|a.u.c.}} 715.&lt;/ref&gt; They were all condemned by the senate: some were taken off by one accident, some by another. Part of them perished at sea, others fell in battle; and some slew themselves with the same poniard with which they had stabbed Cæsar.&lt;ref&gt;Suetonius alludes to Brutus and Cassius, of whom this is related by Plutarch and Dio.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}
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      <text bytes="3912" sha1="14285owara2nvihrr24oi9e5q3xyoev" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;How to Make a Talking Picture&quot; /&gt;{{c|{{xxx-larger|How to Make a Talking Picture}}

{{x-larger|Aged scientist reports on the love life of the domesticated microphone}}

{{larger|By Prof. Dr. Leonard Hall&lt;br&gt;(''Western Electric Co.'')}}
}}

{{di|I}} WILL try to explain to you, with the aid of a quart of commas and a few semi-colons, how talking pictures are made. 

Of the history of talking pictures I will only remark that they were invented by I and Dr. Herb Howe, the young Armenian numismatist, in the early fall of '93, which you remember as Centennial Year, but I remember for an attack of shingles. Our first talking picture was that of a snail crawling across the head of cabbage. Then, you may recall, came the war, and an unpleasant incident it was. 

My researches in the modern talking picture were carried on on Stage 13 of the great Paramount Studio in Hollywood, to which I gained entrance by lisping, as an actor. I was assisted in my experiments and observations by the famous Case D, the young lady who slept through the burning of Rome and &quot;The Trial of Mary Dugan.&quot;

My chief subject was Dr. Adolphe Menjou, that distinguished Siamese model who was sewed into a claw-hammer coat in 1919 and has not since emerged. Our experiments were carried on during the filming of &quot;The Concert,&quot; a sophisticated Viennese comedy in which Dr. Menjou appears as a jaded lover, a jealous husband, a Knabe baby grand piano and a flourish of trumpets heard off. He was in process of being directed by Dr. Victor Schertzinger, the eminent composer-director who is still under sentence of death for having composed the song &quot;Marcheta.&quot;

After looking at a test tube, eating a piece of litmus paper and drawing pictures on a desk calendar for 1922, I find that the following properties are needed for the making of a modern talking picture. I list them in the order of least importance. 

1. Dr Menjou and the actors. 

2. Dr. Director Schertzinger. 

3. {{SIC|Tweve|Twelve}} colored maids to hold things. 

4. Eighty electricians, blonde or brunette. 

5. Twenty experts, cameramen, technicians, bat-boys, rubbers and chief seconds. 

6. Ten dirty gentlemen to say &quot;Shhhhhh!&quot;

7. A young doctor, fresh from a mail order school for electrical engineers, who sits at a desk, pushes buzzers, yells &quot;Sink it!&quot; and thus sinks the talking picture—in short, makes the shadows yodel, chortle and play dead. 

Let us now proceed to the actual making of a talking picture scene. In words of one syllable let us see what actually happens on a great sound stage, among microphones both wild and domestic. 

The big felt-lined stage is buzzing with talk. Electricians are knocking over lights, character women are doing the black bottom, blondes are fighting in corners, Dr. Director Schertzinger is pulling out handfuls of his own hair and stuffing a sofa pillow with it. Seated in a chair marked &quot;Miss Compton,&quot; Dr. Menjou is trying to keep from falling through his eight inch collar. In a chair marked &quot;Mr. Entwhistle,&quot; Miss Compton, an English actress, is trying to say &quot;America&quot; so that it will sound less like &quot;Hemuddicah!&quot;

At last Dr. Schertzinger, having pulled out the last hair, says, &quot;Are we all set?&quot;

The young electrical doctor puts down his diploma, swallows his toothpick and says &quot;oh kay!&quot;

&quot;Lock the doors!&quot; booms the assistant director. 

{| {{ts|mc}}
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| [[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 53 - 1.png|center|400px]]
|}

{{c|'''My chief subject was Dr. Adolphe Menjou, who was sewed into a claw-hammer in 1919 and has not since emerged. The big felt-lined stage was in action.'''

'''The cameras and the medullae oblongatae were beating as one.'''

'''&quot;Darling,&quot; said Dr. Menjou, &quot;our two hearts are beating togedder like one.&quot;'''

'''&quot;Cut!&quot; yelled Director Schertzinger.'''
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;How to Make a Talking Picture&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{x-larger|Aged scientist reports on the love life of the domesticated microphone}}

{{larger|By Prof. Dr. Leonard Hall&lt;br&gt;(''Western Electric Co.'')}}

Illustrated by Ken Chamberlain
}}

{{di|I}} WILL try to explain to you, with the aid of a quart of commas and a few semi-colons, how talking pictures are made. 

Of the history of talking pictures I will only remark that they were invented by I and Dr. Herb Howe, the young Armenian numismatist, in the early fall of '93, which you remember as Centennial Year, but I remember for an attack of shingles. Our first talking picture was that of a snail crawling across the head of cabbage. Then, you may recall, came the war, and an unpleasant incident it was. 

My researches in the modern talking picture were carried on on Stage 13 of the great Paramount Studio in Hollywood, to which I gained entrance by lisping, as an actor. I was assisted in my experiments and observations by the famous Case D, the young lady who slept through the burning of Rome and &quot;The Trial of Mary Dugan.&quot;

My chief subject was Dr. Adolphe Menjou, that distinguished Siamese model who was sewed into a claw-hammer coat in 1919 and has not since emerged. Our experiments were carried on during the filming of &quot;The Concert,&quot; a sophisticated Viennese comedy in which Dr. Menjou appears as a jaded lover, a jealous husband, a Knabe baby grand piano and a flourish of trumpets heard off. He was in process of being directed by Dr. Victor Schertzinger, the eminent composer-director who is still under sentence of death for having composed the song &quot;Marcheta.&quot;

After looking at a test tube, eating a piece of litmus paper and drawing pictures on a desk calendar for 1922, I find that the following properties are needed for the making of a modern talking picture. I list them in the order of least importance. 

1. Dr Menjou and the actors. 

2. Dr. Director Schertzinger. 

3. {{SIC|Tweve|Twelve}} colored maids to hold things. 

4. Eighty electricians, blonde or brunette. 

5. Twenty experts, cameramen, technicians, bat-boys, rubbers and chief seconds. 

6. Ten dirty gentlemen to say &quot;Shhhhhh!&quot;

7. A young doctor, fresh from a mail order school for electrical engineers, who sits at a desk, pushes buzzers, yells &quot;Sink it!&quot; and thus sinks the talking picture—in short, makes the shadows yodel, chortle and play dead. 

Let us now proceed to the actual making of a talking picture scene. In words of one syllable let us see what actually happens on a great sound stage, among microphones both wild and domestic. 

The big felt-lined stage is buzzing with talk. Electricians are knocking over lights, character women are doing the black bottom, blondes are fighting in corners, Dr. Director Schertzinger is pulling out handfuls of his own hair and stuffing a sofa pillow with it. Seated in a chair marked &quot;Miss Compton,&quot; Dr. Menjou is trying to keep from falling through his eight inch collar. In a chair marked &quot;Mr. Entwhistle,&quot; Miss Compton, an English actress, is trying to say &quot;America&quot; so that it will sound less like &quot;Hemuddicah!&quot;

At last Dr. Schertzinger, having pulled out the last hair, says, &quot;Are we all set?&quot;

The young electrical doctor puts down his diploma, swallows his toothpick and says &quot;oh kay!&quot;

&quot;Lock the doors!&quot; booms the assistant director. 

{| {{ts|mc}}
| {{dhr|160px}}[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 52 - 1.png|center|300px]]
| [[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 53 - 1.png|center|400px]]
|}

{{c|'''My chief subject was Dr. Adolphe Menjou, who was sewed into a claw-hammer in 1919 and has not since emerged. The big felt-lined stage was in action.'''

'''The cameras and the medullae oblongatae were beating as one.'''

'''&quot;Darling,&quot; said Dr. Menjou, &quot;our two hearts are beating togedder like one.&quot;'''

'''&quot;Cut!&quot; yelled Director Schertzinger.'''
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;How to Make a Talking Picture&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="2743" sha1="ni51zdp0t7dkbn9iw7vs4laapft4xqr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|56|{{sc|remarks on the life and times of}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;ref&gt;For observations on Dr. Thomson's Essays appended to Suetonius's History of Julius Cæsar, and the succeeding Emperors, see the Preface to this volume.&lt;/ref&gt;{{sc|The}} termination of the civil war between Cæsar and Pompey forms a new epoch in the Roman History, at which a Republic, which had subsisted with unrivalled glory during a period of about four hundred and sixty years, relapsed into a state of despotism, whence it never more could emerge. So sudden a transition from prosperity to the ruin of public freedom, without the intervention of any foreign enemy, excites a reasonable conjecture, that the constitution in which it could take place, however vigorous in appearance, must have lost that soundness of political health which had enabled it to endure through so many ages. A short view of its preceding state, and of that in which it was at the time of the revolution now mentioned, will best ascertain the foundation of such a conjecture.

Though the Romans, upon the expulsion of Tarquin, made an essential change in the political form of the state, they did not carry their detestation of regal authority so far as to abolish the religious institutions of Numa Pompilius, the second of their kings, according to which, the priesthood, with all the influence annexed to that order, was placed in the hands of the aristocracy. By this wise policy a restraint was put upon the fickleness and violence of the people in matters of government, and a decided superiority given to the Senate both in the deliberative and executive parts of administration. This advantage was afterwards indeed diminished by the creation of Tribunes of the people; a set of men whose ambition often embroiled the Republic in civil dissensions, and who at last abused their authority to such a degree, that they became instruments of aggrandizement to any leading men in the state who could purchase their friendship. In general, however, the majority of the Tribunes being actuated by views which comprehended the interests of the multitude, rather than those of individuals, they did not so much endanger the liberty, as they interrupted the tranquillity, of the public; and when the occasional commotions subsided, there remained no permanent ground for the establishment of personal usurpation.

In every government, an object of the last importance to the peace and welfare of society is the morals of the people; and in proportion as a community is enlarged by propagation, or the accession of a multitude of new members, a more strict attention is requisite to guard against that dissolution of manners to which 
a crowded and extensive capital has a natural tendency. Of this&lt;noinclude&gt;{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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&lt;section begin=&quot;How to Make a Talking Picture&quot; /&gt;The mighty portals shut out the world. 

The professional shushers all begin shushing.

Four cameramen, with dirks in their teeth, are shut into airproof, sound-proof cells with their cameras and a dozen tarantulas. Electricians maladjust the lights for the last time. Dr. Menjou and a bon-bon blonde take their places on the &quot;set.&quot; The blonde looks as though she wishes a cloudburst would descend and melt her. Dr. Menjou has the gay and debonair appearance of a gentleman about to be hanged.

&quot;How are yah fixed, kid?&quot; asks Dr. Menjou, in his best Parisian. 

&quot;Oke,&quot; says Dr. Schertzinger. 

A field piece booms from the roof of the studio. Signal flags are run up at the masthead. Rockets break in the afternoon sky. A bell is rung—once, twice, thrice. A whistle blows sharply. 

&quot;Sink it!&quot; says the young electrical doctor into a telephone. 

Silence falls. The cameras and the medullae oblongatae, or sound dinguses, are beating as one. Eye and ear are in &quot;synchronization,&quot; or &quot;are sunk,&quot; as we scientists say. In the mixer they are being mixed, or mux. 

Here comes Dr. Menjou, gnawing first at
&lt;section end=&quot;How to Make a Talking Picture&quot; /&gt;
{{c|[PLEASE TURN TO PACE 100]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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&lt;section begin=&quot;How to Make a Talking Picture&quot; /&gt;The mighty portals shut out the world. 

The professional shushers all begin shushing.

Four cameramen, with dirks in their teeth, are shut into airproof, sound-proof cells with their cameras and a dozen tarantulas. Electricians maladjust the lights for the last time. Dr. Menjou and a bon-bon blonde take their places on the &quot;set.&quot; The blonde looks as though she wishes a cloudburst would descend and melt her. Dr. Menjou has the gay and debonair appearance of a gentleman about to be hanged.

&quot;How are yah fixed, kid?&quot; asks Dr. Menjou, in his best Parisian. 

&quot;Oke,&quot; says Dr. Schertzinger. 

A field piece booms from the roof of the studio. Signal flags are run up at the masthead. Rockets break in the afternoon sky. A bell is rung—once, twice, thrice. A whistle blows sharply. 

&quot;Sink it!&quot; says the young electrical doctor into a telephone. 

Silence falls. The cameras and the medullae oblongatae, or sound dinguses, are beating as one. Eye and ear are in &quot;synchronization,&quot; or &quot;are sunk,&quot; as we scientists say. In the mixer they are being mixed, or mux. 

Here comes Dr. Menjou, gnawing first at
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      <text bytes="2767" sha1="36eppki7n87i07dat0z7nm7v7gi6821" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|julius cæsar.}}|57}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;the Romans became sensible in the growing state of the Republic. In the year of the City 312, two magistrates were first created for taking an account of the number of the people, and the value of their estates; and soon after, they were invested with the authority not only of inspecting the morals of individuals, but of inflicting public censure for any licentiousness of conduct, or violation of decency. Thus both the civil and religious institutions concurred to restrain the people within the bounds of good order and obedience to the laws; at the same time that the frugal life of the ancient Romans proved a strong security against those vices which operate most effectually towards sapping the foundations of a state.

But in the time of Julius Cæsar the barriers of public liberty were become too weak to restrain the audacious efforts of ambitious and desperate men. The veneration for the constitution, usually a powerful check to treasonable designs, had been lately violated by the usurpations of Marius and Sylla. The salutary terrors of religion no longer predominated over the consciences of men. The shame of public censure was extinguished in general depravity. An eminent historian, who lived at that time, informs us, that venality universally prevailed amongst the Romans; and a writer who flourished soon after, observes, that luxury and dissipation had encumbered almost all so much with debt, that they beheld with a degree of complacency the prospect of civil war and confusion.

The extreme degree of profligacy at which the Romans were now arrived is in nothing more evident, than that this age gave birth to the most horrible conspiracy which occurs in the annals of human kind, viz. that of Catiline. This was not the project of a few desperate and abandoned individuals, but of a number of men of the most illustrious rank in the state; and it appears beyond doubt, that Julius Cæsar was accessary to the design, which was no less than to extirpate the Senate, divide amongst 
themselves both the public and private treasures, and set Rome on fire. The causes which prompted to this tremendous project, it is generally admitted, were luxury, prodigality, irreligion, a total corruption of manners, and above all, as the immediate cause, the pressing necessity in which the conspirators were involved by their extreme dissipation.

The enormous debt in which Cæsar himself was early involved, countenances an opinion that his a anxiety to procure the province of Gaul proceeded chiefly from this cause. But during nine years in which he held that province, he acquired such riches as must have rendered him, without competition, the most opulent person in the state. If nothing more, therefore, than a&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/81</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847856</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133556</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:16:21Z</timestamp>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;stands me. But tell me how to explain this passion? It will turn my hair grey, it’ll bring me to prison, to the grave. I am a tragic man. {{sc|HE}}—[''Wipes his eyes with a dirty handkerchief''.] Why don’t I like things which are not forbidden? Why, at all moments, even at the very moment of ecstasy, must I be reminded of some law—it is stupid. {{sc|He}}, I am becoming an anarchist. Good God!—Count Mancini, an anarchist. That’s the only thing I’ve missed...</comment>
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      <text bytes="894" sha1="4qje7wffrq0wyq7enmpt1a65d33q42s" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|63|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|63}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;stands me. But tell me how to explain this passion? It will turn my hair grey, it’ll bring me to prison, to the grave. I am a tragic man. {{sc|HE}}—[''Wipes his eyes with a dirty handkerchief''.] Why don’t I like things which are not forbidden? Why, at all moments, even at the very moment of ecstasy, must I be reminded of some law—it is stupid. {{sc|He}}, I am becoming an anarchist. Good God!—Count Mancini, an anarchist. That’s the only thing I’ve missed.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Isn’t there a way of settling it somehow?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Is there a way of getting money, somehow?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

And the Baron?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Oh, yes! He’s just waiting for it, the blood-sucker! He’ll get what he’s after. Some day, you’ll see me give him Consuelo for ten thousand francs, perhaps for five!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Cheap.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133557</id>
      <parentid>15133556</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:16:35Z</timestamp>
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        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133557</origin>
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      <text bytes="894" sha1="14e9ah1ocg200fct8jz8x7bz1z84wn0" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|63|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|63}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;stands me. But tell me how to explain this passion? It will turn my hair grey, it’ll bring me to prison, to the grave. I am a tragic man. {{sc|HE}}—[''Wipes his eyes with a dirty handkerchief''.] Why don’t I like things which are not forbidden? Why, at all moments, even at the very moment of ecstasy, must I be reminded of some law—it is stupid. {{sc|He}}, I am becoming an anarchist. Good God!—Count Mancini, an anarchist. That’s the only thing I’ve missed.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Isn’t there a way of settling it somehow?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Is there a way of getting money, somehow?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

And the Baron?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Oh, yes! He’s just waiting for it, the blood-sucker! He’ll get what he’s after. Some day, you’ll see me give him Consuelo for ten thousand francs, perhaps for five!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Cheap.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>14e9ah1ocg200fct8jz8x7bz1z84wn0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133558</id>
      <parentid>15133557</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:17:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133558</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="894" sha1="9fm8zdzryclm5ygq2c0zt2vkak6l0v7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|63|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|63}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;stands me. But tell me how to explain this passion? It will turn my hair grey, it’ll bring me to prison, to the grave. I am a tragic man. {{sc|He}}—[''Wipes his eyes with a dirty handkerchief''.] Why don’t I like things which are not forbidden? Why, at all moments, even at the very moment of ecstasy, must I be reminded of some law—it is stupid. {{sc|He}}, I am becoming an anarchist. Good God!—Count Mancini, an anarchist. That’s the only thing I’ve missed.

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Isn’t there a way of settling it somehow?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Is there a way of getting money, somehow?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

And the Baron?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Oh, yes! He’s just waiting for it, the blood-sucker! He’ll get what he’s after. Some day, you’ll see me give him Consuelo for ten thousand francs, perhaps for five!

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Cheap.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/74</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847857</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133559</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:17:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TheTimeBombII</username>
        <id>3137028</id>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133559</origin>
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      <text bytes="2891" sha1="q697jjgfeceiv1kf4ng65xlas6i4hb9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|58|{{sc|remarks on the life and times of}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;splendid establishment had been the object of his pursuit, he had attained to the summit of his wishes. But when we find him persevering in a plan of aggrandizement beyond this period of his fortunes, we can ascribe his conduct to no other motive than that of outrageous ambition. He projected the building of a new Forum at Rome, for the ground only of which he was to pay 800,000 pounds; he raised legions in Gaul at his own charges: he promised such entertainments to the people as had never been known at Rome from the foundation of the city. All these circumstances evince some latent design of procuring such a popularity as might give him an uncontrolled influence in the management of public affairs. Pompey, we are told, was wont to say, that Cæsar not being able, with all his riches, to fulfil the promises which he had made, wished to throw everything into confusion. There may have been some foundation for this remark: but the opinion of Cicero is more probable, that Cæsar's mind was seduced with the temptations of chimerical glory. It is observable that neither Cicero nor Pompey intimates any suspicion that Cæsar was apprehensive of being impeached for his conduct, had he returned to Rome in a private station. Yet, that there was reason for such an apprehension, the positive declaration of L. Domitius leaves little room to doubt: especially when we consider the number of enemies that Cæsar had in the Senate, and the coolness of his former friend Pompey ever after the death of Julia. The proposed impeachment was founded upon a notorious charge of prosecuting measures destructive of the interests of the commonwealth, and tending ultimately to an object incompatible with public freedom. Indeed, considering the extreme corruption which prevailed amongst the Romans at this time, it is more than probable that Cæsar would have been acquitted of the charge, but at such an expense as must have stripped him of all his riches, and placed him again in a situation ready to attempt a disturbance of the public tranquillity. For it is said, that he purchased the friendship of Curio, at the commencement of the civil war, with a bribe little short of half a million sterling.

Whatever Cæsar's private motive may have been for taking arms against his country, he embarked in an enterprise of a nature the most dangerous: and had Pompey conducted himself in any degree suitable to the reputation which he had formerly acquired, the contest would in all probability have terminated in favour of public freedom. But by dilatory measures in the beginning, by imprudently withdrawing his army from Italy into a distant province, and by not pursuing the advantage he had gained by the vigorous repulse of Cæsar's troops in their attack upon his camp, this commander lost every opportunity of {{hws|extin|extinguishing}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/26</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847858</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133560</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:19:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133560</origin>
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      <text bytes="500" sha1="21l5l7vgiz5vpf8k5yhv0mymrnowbr5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|CUPS|
Cups, let them be dark
like globules of night about to go plash.
I want to drink out of dark cups that drip down on their feet.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|BROWLS|
Take away all this crystal and silver
and give me soft-skinned wood
that lives erect through long nights, physically
to put to my lips.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;c&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|YOU|
You, you don't know me.
When have your knees ever nipped me
like fire-tongs a live coal
for a minute?
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|6}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:He who gets Slapped (1949).djvu/82</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847859</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133561</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:21:11Z</timestamp>
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        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}  Did I say it was anything else? Do I want to do it? But these bourgeois are strangling me, they’ve got me by the throat. {{sc|He}}, one can easily see that you’re a gentleman, and of good society, you understand me—I showed you the jewels which I sent back to him—damn honesty—I didn’t even dare change the stones, put false ones—  {{c|{{sc|He}}}}  Why?  {{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}  It would have queered the game. Do you think he didn’t weig...</comment>
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      <text bytes="881" sha1="bg80rt4qlcdev04ajewe6d1u9bgqamk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|64|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|64}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Did I say it was anything else? Do I want to do it? But these bourgeois are strangling me, they’ve got me by the throat. {{sc|He}}, one can easily see that you’re a gentleman, and of good society, you understand me—I showed you the jewels which I sent back to him—damn honesty—I didn’t even dare change the stones, put false ones—

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Why?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

It would have queered the game. Do you think he didn’t weigh the diamonds when he got them back?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

He will not marry her.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Yes he will. You don’t understand. [''Laughs''.] The first half of his life, this man had only appetites—now love’s got him. If he does not get Consuelo, he is lost, he is—like a withered narcissus. Plague take him with his automobiles. Did you see his car?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133562</id>
      <parentid>15133561</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:21:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.167.147.5</ip>
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      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133562</origin>
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      <text bytes="881" sha1="5a932n33vmbnhd8bolulq2er5oysu8z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;82.167.147.5&quot; /&gt;{{rh|64|HE WHO GETS SLAPPED|64}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Did I say it was anything else? Do I want to do it? But these bourgeois are strangling me, they’ve got me by the throat. {{sc|He}}, one can easily see that you’re a gentleman, and of good society, you understand me—I showed you the jewels which I sent back to him—damn honesty—I didn’t even dare change the stones, put false ones—

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

Why?

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

It would have queered the game. Do you think he didn’t weigh the diamonds when he got them back?

{{c|{{sc|He}}}}

He will not marry her.

{{c|{{sc|Mancini}}}}

Yes he will. You don’t understand. [''Laughs''.] The first half of his life, this man had only appetites—now love’s got him. If he does not get Consuelo, he is lost, he is—like a withered narcissus. Plague take him with his automobiles. Did you see his car?
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/75</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847860</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133563</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:26:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TheTimeBombII</username>
        <id>3137028</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133563</origin>
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      <text bytes="2787" sha1="73vyw9imcf994q9bx07eew2pr8agnqo" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rh||{{sc|julius cæsar.}}|59}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|guishing|extinguishing}} a war which was to determine the fate, and even the existence, of the Republic. It was accordingly determined on the plains of Pharsalia, where Cæsar obtained a victory which was not more decisive than unexpected. He was now no longer amenable either to the tribunal of the Senate or the power of the laws, but triumphed at once over his enemies and the constitution of his country.

It is to the honour of Cæsar, that when he had obtained the supreme power, he exercised it with a degree of moderation beyond what was generally expected by those who had fought on the side of the Republic. Of his private life either before or after this period, little is transmitted in history. Henceforth, however, he seems to have lived chiefly at Rome, near which he had a small villa, upon an eminence, commanding a beautiful prospect. His time was almost entirely occupied with public affairs, in the management of which, though he employed many agents, he appears to have had none in the character of actual minister. He was in general easy of access: but Cicero, in a letter to a friend, complains of having been treated with the indignity of waiting a considerable time amongst a crowd in an antechamber, before he could have an audience. The elevation of Cæsar placed him not above discharging reciprocally the social duties in the intercourse of life. He returned the visits of those who waited upon him, and would sup at their houses. At table, and in the use of wine, he was habitually temperate. Upon the whole, he added nothing to his own happiness by all the dangers, the fatigues, and the perpetual anxiety which he had incurred in the pursuit of unlimited power. His health was greatly impaired: his former cheerfulness of temper, though not his magnanimity, appears to have forsaken him; and we behold in his fate a memorable example of illustrious talents rendered, by inordinate ambition, destructive to himself, and irretrievably pernicious to his country.

From beholding the ruin of the Roman Republic, after intestine divisions, and the distractions of civil war, it will afford some relief to take a view of the progress of literature, which flourished even during those calamities.

The commencement of literature in Rome is to be dated from the reduction of the Grecian States, when the conquerors imported into their own country the valuable productions of the Greek language, and the first essay of Roman genius was in dramatic composition. Livius Andronicus, who flourished about 240 years before the Christian æra, formed the Fescennine verses into a kind of regular drama, upon the model of the Greeks. He was followed some time after by Ennius, who, besides dramatic and other {{hws|com|compositions}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Photoplay (1929-08).pdf/100</title>
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      <text bytes="6213" sha1="hp5q68ipf8b62wpgewwbci62uljva70" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Advertisement&quot; /&gt;{{rule}}

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 100 - Ace Combs.png|center|200px]]

&lt;section end=&quot;Advertisement&quot; /&gt;
{{rule}}{{c|{{larger|How to Make a Talking Picture}}}}{{rule}}
{{c|[CONTINUED FROM PAGE 53]}}

&lt;section begin=&quot;How to Make a Talking Picture&quot; /&gt;a cigarette and then at the blonde. His moustache bristles through its wax.

&quot;Darling,&quot; he says, &quot;our two hearrrts are beating togedder like one.&quot;

&quot;Cut,&quot; says Dr. Director Schertzinger.

&quot;Unsink,&quot; mutters the electrical doctor.


{{di|A}}ND so another masterpiece of sight and sound has been immortalized in celluloid.

&quot;Very good,&quot; murmurs the herr direktor.

&quot;Oh, get the Big H out of here, Hall,&quot; scream the shhh-men.

We go into the play-back room and hear the voices played back.

&quot;Ah, that's fine!&quot; said Dr. Schertzinger, as Dr. Menjou's voice came squeaking out of the thingamajig.

&quot;You know, we have great trouble with the playback. Only yesterday I did a scene with Dr. Menjou and when we played it back we were astonished to hear Miss Joan Crawford's voice come out.

We did the scene again and this time, in the play-back, we found we had recorded Mr. Carl Laemmle. It is very confusing.

&quot;I think the trouble is in the mixing room. As you can see from the name, occasionally it mixes things all up.

&quot;In short, it is not a good mixer. Am I right or wrong, boys?&quot;

&quot;Yes, Dr. Schertzinger!&quot; shouted the eighty electricians with a will.

&quot;Well,&quot; said the director, taking a kick at me, &quot;you have seen a talking picture made. Now will you kindly get out of here, and stay out?&quot;


{{di|A}}ND with that cheery goodbye ringing in my ears, I picked myself up from the concrete.

This is a brief exposition of how talking pictures are made. Any {{sc|Photoplay}} reader wishing to ask questions concerning the care and feeding of the talking pictures may send me a stamped and self addressed envelope. I can always use stamps.

&lt;section end=&quot;How to Make a Talking Picture&quot; /&gt;
{{rule}}{{c|Revolution in Hollywood}}{{rule}}
{{c|[CONTINUED FRMO PAGE 39]}}

&lt;section begin=&quot;Revolution in Hollywood&quot; /&gt;people through their paces like photoplay veterans. 

And the invasion continued, and for a time it was bloody war, with throats cut and artistic bodies left in alleys. 

The wise picture folk hurried to the stage for speaking experience, and the tremendous success of Bessie Love, Warner Baxter, Conrad Nagel and others shows that the real troupers had nothing to fear. 

The stupid photoplayers, afraid and hysterical, fell back on The Great Mystery they had made of the art-business of movie-making—they kept on trying to clothe the industry in garments that didn't fit. The bones of those foolish ones are bleaching on the hills over Hollywood today. 

The attack from the East pressed on. 

Fear and distrust on the side of the old guard, cockiness on the part of the Broadway shock troops—a panic of experiment seizing all hearts and changing a mighty entertainment force, built in twenty years, almost over night. Hollywood will never forget the first ghastly months after speech came to the quiet screen. 

Both sides dug in. There was no fraternization—only hate and genuine terror between the silent and the sound. Out of the confusion came nothing good—only enmity and mistrust. 

A wise writer from the East stood up before the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, in solemn conclave assembled.


{{di|L|fl=&quot;}}ADIES and gentlemen,&quot; he said, &quot;I and dozens of my friends left our happy homes in the East and came three thousand miles, across plains filled with bisons and Red Indians, because we thought we had something to give the pictures.

&quot;If we have, let us give it. If we haven't, we'll go back home without one squawk. Dozens of us have already left because we have had nothing to contribute.

&quot;You have persisted in making pictures a great, impenetrable mystery. Now we are solving that mystery you have made. We are here to work as you are. You can't frighten us away. If we can offer something of value to motion pictures, we'll offer it. If we can't, we'll go back home, disappointed, but not heart-broken.&quot;

As the great war entered its second year, Hollywood began to understand. The revolution went on, but it was no longer bloody. Benny of Broadway and Harold of Hollywood began speaking when they met on the street, Hollywood grew calmer, less panicky. Those who had gifts found their reward, those who hadn't quietly faded from the scene. 

The old line movie people came down off their high hobby horses and shook hands. The Easterners found fine friends and real people in the film colony, and they ceased to carry chips on their shoulders. 

Fine actor families from the legitimate stage trekked West, staked out Hollywood claims and became citizens of that weird, wonderful world of make-believe. 

People like James Gleason and his wife and son set up tepees—the Gleasons, for many years in and of the theater. 

&quot;How does it feel to be an exile from Broadway?&quot; I asked him. 

&quot;Exile? I'm no exile. This is home now!&quot; said Jim. 

And the old guard of Hollywood? 


{{di|H}}APPIER, too, but still a little dazed by the speed of the revolution.

&quot;I used to know everyone on the boulevard,&quot; said one, a little wistfully. &quot;Now I sec mostly strangers.&quot;

But for the most part there is happiness in both armed camps—Broadway and Hollywood have joined hands and tomahawks and together are revolutionizing the business of the films. 

Few realize—least of all the old Hollywoodians—the extent of that great change. 

Our favorite film stars study lines, when they used to lie in the sun. The other day Renee Adoree went to Arrowhead Springs—not to loaf, but to bone up on the dialogue of her next picture! 

The once quiet studios now hear our English tongue—not to mention the tooting of tenor saxophones, the bleat of barber shop tenors and the rattle of machine guns. 

The great invasion from the East goes on. 

A check of the studios shows at least 250 of the theater's best and finest laboring in the studios sacred to the feared photoplay. 

A hundred of these are players, and a half a hundred are playwrights. Song writers,
&lt;section end=&quot;Revolution in Hollywood&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 100 - Ace Combs.png|center|200px]]

&lt;section end=&quot;Advertisement&quot; /&gt;
{{rule}}{{c|{{larger|How to Make a Talking Picture}}}}{{rule}}
{{c|[CONTINUED FROM PAGE 53]}}

&lt;section begin=&quot;How to Make a Talking Picture&quot; /&gt;a cigarette and then at the blonde. His moustache bristles through its wax.

&quot;Darling,&quot; he says, &quot;our two hearrrts are beating togedder like one.&quot;

&quot;Cut,&quot; says Dr. Director Schertzinger.

&quot;Unsink,&quot; mutters the electrical doctor.


{{di|A}}ND so another masterpiece of sight and sound has been immortalized in celluloid.

&quot;Very good,&quot; murmurs the herr direktor.

&quot;Oh, get the Big H out of here, Hall,&quot; scream the shhh-men.

We go into the play-back room and hear the voices played back.

&quot;Ah, that's fine!&quot; said Dr. Schertzinger, as Dr. Menjou's voice came squeaking out of the thingamajig.

&quot;You know, we have great trouble with the playback. Only yesterday I did a scene with Dr. Menjou and when we played it back we were astonished to hear Miss Joan Crawford's voice come out.

We did the scene again and this time, in the play-back, we found we had recorded Mr. Carl Laemmle. It is very confusing.

&quot;I think the trouble is in the mixing room. As you can see from the name, occasionally it mixes things all up.

&quot;In short, it is not a good mixer. Am I right or wrong, boys?&quot;

&quot;Yes, Dr. Schertzinger!&quot; shouted the eighty electricians with a will.

&quot;Well,&quot; said the director, taking a kick at me, &quot;you have seen a talking picture made. Now will you kindly get out of here, and stay out?&quot;


{{di|A}}ND with that cheery goodbye ringing in my ears, I picked myself up from the concrete.

This is a brief exposition of how talking pictures are made. Any {{sc|Photoplay}} reader wishing to ask questions concerning the care and feeding of the talking pictures may send me a stamped and self addressed envelope. I can always use stamps.

&lt;section end=&quot;How to Make a Talking Picture&quot; /&gt;
{{rule}}{{c|{{larger|Revolution in Hollywood}}}}{{rule}}
{{c|[CONTINUED FROM PAGE 39]}}

&lt;section begin=&quot;Revolution in Hollywood&quot; /&gt;people through their paces like photoplay veterans. 

And the invasion continued, and for a time it was bloody war, with throats cut and artistic bodies left in alleys. 

The wise picture folk hurried to the stage for speaking experience, and the tremendous success of Bessie Love, Warner Baxter, Conrad Nagel and others shows that the real troupers had nothing to fear. 

The stupid photoplayers, afraid and hysterical, fell back on The Great Mystery they had made of the art-business of movie-making—they kept on trying to clothe the industry in garments that didn't fit. The bones of those foolish ones are bleaching on the hills over Hollywood today. 

The attack from the East pressed on. 

Fear and distrust on the side of the old guard, cockiness on the part of the Broadway shock troops—a panic of experiment seizing all hearts and changing a mighty entertainment force, built in twenty years, almost over night. Hollywood will never forget the first ghastly months after speech came to the quiet screen. 

Both sides dug in. There was no fraternization—only hate and genuine terror between the silent and the sound. Out of the confusion came nothing good—only enmity and mistrust. 

A wise writer from the East stood up before the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, in solemn conclave assembled.


{{di|L|fl=&quot;}}ADIES and gentlemen,&quot; he said, &quot;I and dozens of my friends left our happy homes in the East and came three thousand miles, across plains filled with bisons and Red Indians, because we thought we had something to give the pictures.

&quot;If we have, let us give it. If we haven't, we'll go back home without one squawk. Dozens of us have already left because we have had nothing to contribute.

&quot;You have persisted in making pictures a great, impenetrable mystery. Now we are solving that mystery you have made. We are here to work as you are. You can't frighten us away. If we can offer something of value to motion pictures, we'll offer it. If we can't, we'll go back home, disappointed, but not heart-broken.&quot;

As the great war entered its second year, Hollywood began to understand. The revolution went on, but it was no longer bloody. Benny of Broadway and Harold of Hollywood began speaking when they met on the street, Hollywood grew calmer, less panicky. Those who had gifts found their reward, those who hadn't quietly faded from the scene. 

The old line movie people came down off their high hobby horses and shook hands. The Easterners found fine friends and real people in the film colony, and they ceased to carry chips on their shoulders. 

Fine actor families from the legitimate stage trekked West, staked out Hollywood claims and became citizens of that weird, wonderful world of make-believe. 

People like James Gleason and his wife and son set up tepees—the Gleasons, for many years in and of the theater. 

&quot;How does it feel to be an exile from Broadway?&quot; I asked him. 

&quot;Exile? I'm no exile. This is home now!&quot; said Jim. 

And the old guard of Hollywood? 


{{di|H}}APPIER, too, but still a little dazed by the speed of the revolution.

&quot;I used to know everyone on the boulevard,&quot; said one, a little wistfully. &quot;Now I sec mostly strangers.&quot;

But for the most part there is happiness in both armed camps—Broadway and Hollywood have joined hands and tomahawks and together are revolutionizing the business of the films. 

Few realize—least of all the old Hollywoodians—the extent of that great change. 

Our favorite film stars study lines, when they used to lie in the sun. The other day Renee Adoree went to Arrowhead Springs—not to loaf, but to bone up on the dialogue of her next picture! 

The once quiet studios now hear our English tongue—not to mention the tooting of tenor saxophones, the bleat of barber shop tenors and the rattle of machine guns. 

The great invasion from the East goes on. 

A check of the studios shows at least 250 of the theater's best and finest laboring in the studios sacred to the feared photoplay. 

A hundred of these are players, and a half a hundred are playwrights. Song writers,
&lt;section end=&quot;Revolution in Hollywood&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/27</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847862</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133571</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:34:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133571</origin>
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      <text bytes="794" sha1="cr77ykjrqy3p46lefjw3ctx83rnb4fb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|AFTER DARK|
Can you, after dark, become a darkie?
Could one, at night, run up against the standing flesh of you
with a shock, as against the blackness of a negro,
and catch flesh like the night in one's arms,
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|TO LET GO OR TO HOLD ON{{ld}}?|
Shall we let go,
and allow the soul to find its level
downwards, ebbing downwards, ebbing downwards to the flood?
till the head floats tilted like a bottle forward tilted
on the sea, with no message in it; and the body is submerged
heavy and swaying like a whale recovering
from wounds, below the deep black wave?
like a whale recovering its velocity and strength
+under the cold black wave.

Or else,
or else
shall a man brace himself up
and lift his face and set his breast
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|7}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>15133572</id>
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        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
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Can you, after dark, become a darkie?
Could one, at night, run up against the standing flesh of you
with a shock, as against the blackness of a negro,
and catch flesh like the night in one's arms,
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|TO LET GO OR TO HOLD ON{{ld}}?|
Shall we let go,
and allow the soul to find its level
downwards, ebbing downwards, ebbing downwards to the flood?
till the head floats tilted like a bottle forward tilted
on the sea, with no message in it; and the body is submerged
heavy and swaying like a whale recovering
from wounds, below the deep black wave?
like a whale recovering its velocity and strength
under the cold black wave.

Or else,
or else
shall a man brace himself up
and lift his face and set his breast
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|7}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Photoplay (1929-08).pdf/38</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="266" sha1="gq9urrbs2r5cz3zczw2u4bzbo0b06t8" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Misc&quot; /&gt;{{rule}}
[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 38 - Rudolph Valentino.png|center|600px]]

{{c|{{larger|Lest We Forget: Rudolph Valentino}}

Born in Castellaneta, Italy, on May 6, 1895&lt;br/&gt;
Died in New York, on August 23, 1926
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Misc&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/28</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847864</id>
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      <id>15133575</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:35:17Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
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      <text bytes="937" sha1="lbhaoqb25vo3kyzei0wi1enxikyogk4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
and go forth to change the world?
gather his will and his energy together
and fling himself in effort after effort
upon the world, to bring a change to pass?

Tell me first, O tell me,
will the dark flood of our day's annihilation
swim deeper, deeper, till it leaves no peak emerging?
Shall we be lost, all of us
and gone like weed, like weed, like eggs of fishes,
like sperm of whales, like germs of the great dead past
into which the creative future shall blow strange, unknown forms?

Are we nothing, already, but the lapsing of a great dead past?
Is the best that we are but sperm, loose sperm, like the sperm of fishes
that drifts upon time and chaos, till some unknown future takes it up
and is fecund with a new Day of new creatures? different from us.

Or is our shattered Argosy, our leaking ark
at this moment scraping tardy Ararat?
Have we got to get down and clear away the debris
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|8}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/29</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847865</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133578</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:36:42Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Alien333</username>
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      <text bytes="708" sha1="qlma70f4vjr0om94sq9pidhgvxisvlh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
Of a swamped civilisation, and start a new world of man
that will blossom forth the whole of human nature?

Must we hold on, hold on
and go ahead with what is human nature
and make a new job of the human world?

Or can we let it go?
O, can we let it go,
and leave it to some nature that is more than human
to use the sperm of what's worth while in us
and thus eliminate us?
Is the time come for humans
now to begin to disappear,
leaving it to the vast revolutions of creative chaos
to bring forth creatures that are an improvement on humans,
as the horse was an improvement on the ichthyosaurus?
Must we hold on?
Or can we now let go?

Dr is it even possible we must do both?
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|9}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/30</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847866</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133579</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:37:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="706" sha1="mu6pmwej27p81kym6gpnp8q3utzxxue" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|DESTINY|
O Destiny, destiny
do you exist, and can a man touch your hand?
O destiny
if I could see your hand, and it were thumbs down,
I would be willing to give way, like the pterodactyl,
and accept obliteration.
I would not even ask to leave a fossil claw extant,
nor a thumb-mark like a clue,
I would be willing to vanish completely, completely.

But if it is thumbs up, and mankind must go on being mankind,
then I am willing to fight, I will roll my sleeves up and start in.

Only, O destiny
I wish you'd show your hand.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|HOW BEASTLY THE BOURGEOIS IS{{ld}}|
How beastly the bourgeois is
especially the male of the species—
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|10}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/31</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847867</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133583</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T07:38:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
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start=stanza|
Presentable, eminently presentable—
shall I make you a present of him?

Isn't he handsome? isn't he healthy? Isn't he a fine specimen?
doesn't he look the fresh clean englishman, outside?
Isn't it god's own image? tramping his thirty miles a day
after partridges, or a little rubber bail?
wouldn't you like to be like that, well off, and quite the thing?

Oh, but wait!
Let him meet a new emotion, let him be faced with another man's need,
let him come home to a bit of moral difficulty, let life face him with a new demand on his understanding
and then watch him go soggy, like a wet meringue.
Watch him turn into a mess, either a fool or a bully.
Just watch the display of him, confronted with a new demand on his intelligence,
a new life-demand.

How beastly the bourgeois is
specially the male of the species—
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|11}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{xx-larger|Broadway's hordes have swept over the hills of filmland!}}

{{larger|By Leonard Hall}}

Illustrated by Ken Chamberlain
}}

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 39 - 1.png|center|600px]]
{{'''Artist's drawing of the Hollywood Front, showing the Second Shock Battellion of Mammy Song Writers, with other troops, detraining for their attack'''}}

{{di|A}}CROSS the sun-baked hills of Hollywood is sweeping the greatest revolution in the history of public entertainment. 

It is a quiet war, as wars go. There are no barricades in the streets, no clatter of machine guns, no bombs bursting in air. Slowly, but as surely as death and taxes, the well-entrenched hosts of the silent drama are giving way before army that bears the banners of a new kind of fun—the talking pictures. 

The braver and wiser souls of the old movie horde are going out to meet the talkies, open-minded and ambitious to succeed in the new medium. The die-hards, sticking their heads into ostrich holes, are going down to artistic and business death, to be heard no more. 

The war has swept quietly across these sunny hills where the movies of the world are made. So quickly, so softly has come the great offensive that Hollywood itself, whose people live so close to the business of entertaining us, doesn't realize quite what has happened. But to a war correspondent from outside there is a realization of a new world. 

For twenty years our friends of the films had lived and worked in this sunny land above the Pacific shore. They fought and played and loved and labored, grinding out their millions of feet of tears and giggles for our daily pleasure. 

Hollywood was a close corporation, and picture making was a delicate and certain art, known only to those who had practiced it for years. Amused, the movie makers saw stage stars sweep into the flickers and flop before the demands of the silent drama. 

Gradually the photoplay became a Great Art in their minds—a Great Mystery known only to them, and handed down to their children. Salaries ran into the thousands, and egos ran with them. The makers of films, secure in their hills, looked down upon the world and found it pretty good, though not quite up to their own tight little lives. 

Then crashed the shot heard round the world! 

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 39 - 2.png|center|200px]]

{{di|S}}OME boys named Warner turned loose a picture called &quot;The Jazz Singer,&quot; wherein the colossal Al Jolson actually sang songs and talked to his old gray mammy. 

Hollywood tottered. 

For months there was panic. Producers ran in circles, chasing their tails. Actors stormed at the talkies, wept, oiled revolvers, took vocal lessons, ran the scales. 

And all the time, from the East, writers, actors and directors from the speaking stage began filtering through the trenches of the photoplay, eager to attack the problems of the talking picture. 

The revolution was on! 

The armies of the silent pictures rallied to repel the invading host. 

The hills of southern California saw the encampments of two armies—the brigades of Broadway and the embattled Hollywoodians. The newcomers from the East were shy and a little bit brash and cocky—the picture people were frightened, and covered their fear with brag and bluster. 

&quot;What do these stage people know about picture technique?&quot; screamed the Hollywoodians. &quot;They can't make films.&quot;

But stage actors, with spotlight dust still on their dinner coats, stepped before the camera and the microphone and gave movie performances to the manner born. Directors from the theater put picture 
&lt;section end=&quot;Revolution in Hollywood&quot; /&gt;
{{c|[PLEASE TURN TO PAGE 100]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{xx-larger|Broadway's hordes have swept over the hills of filmland!}}

{{larger|By Leonard Hall}}

Illustrated by Ken Chamberlain
}}

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 39 - 1.png|center|600px]]
{{c|'''Artist's drawing of the Hollywood Front, showing the Second Shock Battellion of Mammy Song Writers, with other troops, detraining for their attack'''}}

{{di|A}}CROSS the sun-baked hills of Hollywood is sweeping the greatest revolution in the history of public entertainment. 

It is a quiet war, as wars go. There are no barricades in the streets, no clatter of machine guns, no bombs bursting in air. Slowly, but as surely as death and taxes, the well-entrenched hosts of the silent drama are giving way before army that bears the banners of a new kind of fun—the talking pictures. 

The braver and wiser souls of the old movie horde are going out to meet the talkies, open-minded and ambitious to succeed in the new medium. The die-hards, sticking their heads into ostrich holes, are going down to artistic and business death, to be heard no more. 

The war has swept quietly across these sunny hills where the movies of the world are made. So quickly, so softly has come the great offensive that Hollywood itself, whose people live so close to the business of entertaining us, doesn't realize quite what has happened. But to a war correspondent from outside there is a realization of a new world. 

For twenty years our friends of the films had lived and worked in this sunny land above the Pacific shore. They fought and played and loved and labored, grinding out their millions of feet of tears and giggles for our daily pleasure. 

Hollywood was a close corporation, and picture making was a delicate and certain art, known only to those who had practiced it for years. Amused, the movie makers saw stage stars sweep into the flickers and flop before the demands of the silent drama. 

Gradually the photoplay became a Great Art in their minds—a Great Mystery known only to them, and handed down to their children. Salaries ran into the thousands, and egos ran with them. The makers of films, secure in their hills, looked down upon the world and found it pretty good, though not quite up to their own tight little lives. 

Then crashed the shot heard round the world! 

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 39 - 2.png|center|200px]]

{{di|S}}OME boys named Warner turned loose a picture called &quot;The Jazz Singer,&quot; wherein the colossal Al Jolson actually sang songs and talked to his old gray mammy. 

Hollywood tottered. 

For months there was panic. Producers ran in circles, chasing their tails. Actors stormed at the talkies, wept, oiled revolvers, took vocal lessons, ran the scales. 

And all the time, from the East, writers, actors and directors from the speaking stage began filtering through the trenches of the photoplay, eager to attack the problems of the talking picture. 

The revolution was on! 

The armies of the silent pictures rallied to repel the invading host. 

The hills of southern California saw the encampments of two armies—the brigades of Broadway and the embattled Hollywoodians. The newcomers from the East were shy and a little bit brash and cocky—the picture people were frightened, and covered their fear with brag and bluster. 

&quot;What do these stage people know about picture technique?&quot; screamed the Hollywoodians. &quot;They can't make films.&quot;

But stage actors, with spotlight dust still on their dinner coats, stepped before the camera and the microphone and gave movie performances to the manner born. Directors from the theater put picture 
&lt;section end=&quot;Revolution in Hollywood&quot; /&gt;
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start=stanza|
Nicely groomed, like a mushroom
standing there so sleek and erect and eyeable—
and like a fungus, living on the remains of bygone life
sucking his life out of the dead leaves of greater life than his own.

And even so, he's stale, he's been there too long.
Touch him, and you'll find he's all gone inside
just like an old mushroom, all wormy inside, and hollow
under a smooth skin and an upright appearance.

Full of seething, wormy, hollow feelings
rather nasty—
How beastly the bourgeois is!

Standing in their thousands, these appearances, in damp England
what a pity they can't all be kicked over
like sickening toadstools, and left to melt back, swiftly
into the soil of England.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|12}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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Ir you live along with all the other people
and are just like them, and conform, and are nice
you're just a worm—

and if you live with all the other people
and you don't like them and won't be like them and won't conform
then you're just the worm that has turned,
in either case, a worm.

The conforming worm stays just inside the skin
respectably unseen, and cheerfully gnaws away at the heart of life,
making it all rotten inside.

The unconforming worm—that is, the worm that has turned—
gnaws just the same, gnawing the substance out of life,
but he insists on gnawing a little hole in the social epidermis
and poking his head out and waving himself
and saying: Look at me, I am ''not'' respectable,
I do all the things the bourgeois daren't do,
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|13}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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If you live along with all the other people
and are just like them, and conform, and are nice
you're just a worm—

and if you live with all the other people
and you don't like them and won't be like them and won't conform
then you're just the worm that has turned,
in either case, a worm.

The conforming worm stays just inside the skin
respectably unseen, and cheerfully gnaws away at the heart of life,
making it all rotten inside.

The unconforming worm—that is, the worm that has turned—
gnaws just the same, gnawing the substance out of life,
but he insists on gnawing a little hole in the social epidermis
and poking his head out and waving himself
and saying: Look at me, I am ''not'' respectable,
I do all the things the bourgeois daren't do,
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|13}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="3618" sha1="etzaewep8fa6t5ail6ajmx8metktgmp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Revolution in Hollywood&quot; /&gt;stage directors, stagers of dances swell the total. Directors of stage and screen work together on pictures without once biting each other. Players of the theater and players of the sunlit stages not only work together in the same cast, but eat, laugh and live together in perfect concord. 


{{di|A}}ND so the first phase of Hollywood's great change rolls on. The first great advance has been made. The hosts of the stage and screen are gradually living down and fighting off fear and distrust, and are laboring hand in hand to the greater glory of the photoplay. 

The truest and finest of the theater and the studio survive, as they always have and will, whatever their medium. The incompetents and drones are perishing, as was inevitable. The great war has done more to shake out the wastrels and two-for-a-nickel reputations of the film world than anything in the history of Hollywood. 

Broadway and Hollywood Boulevard meet and shake hands, grinning. They have joined forces, and fight under the same flag. 

For when bigger and finer talkies are made, Broadway and Hollywood, allies, and not enemies, will make them! 

&lt;section end=&quot;Revolution in Hollywood&quot; /&gt;
{{rule}}{{c|{{larger|How They Manage Their Homes}}}}{{rule}}
{{c|[CONTINUED FROM PAGE 84]}}

&lt;section begin=&quot;How They Manage Their Homes&quot; /&gt;famous Joan: A glass of fresh cold water and a cup of coffee at 6:30 A. M. A cold shower. Then the long business of professional make-up—and another cup of coffee. Arrives at the studio at 8 A.M. Lays out all her changes required in scenes for the day—dresses, coats, hats, shoes, bags, jewelry, handkerchiefs, gloves, so that she can jump into them without aid. Fixes her hair. Arrives on the set at 8:45 promptly—and works till 12:30 or 1:00 P.M. 

Then that very light lunch—and a telephone visit with Doug Fairbanks, Jr. 


{{di|P}}OSSIBLY a new make-up for the afternoon scenes. Work till 7 P.M. Sees the &quot;rushes&quot; of the day's work. Enjoys a slow, quiet drive home and tries to relax. Eats a leisurely dinner at about 8:15 P. M. &quot;And I never over-eat,&quot; says Joan. 

After dinner she removes the studio make-up and gets into comfortable clothes. 

Joan never fails to make the day's entries in her diary. Joan has kept this diary since long before she was in pictures. &quot;And I try to be really frank with myself,&quot; she says, &quot;since it isn't for publication.&quot;

Sometimes young Doug may have to work late—and Joan joins him for dinner, wherever he is. 

As a general rule she tries to go to bed at 10 P.M., taking a warm bath first. No wonder she made so many towels! 

On Sunday her schedule is different. She rises a little later, and young Doug takes her to Pickfair. During the autumn and winter they spend nearly every Sunday with Doug and Mary at Pickfair. At twilight they all go down to the United Artists Studio and take steam baths in the private equipment on the lot, Joan with Mary in her bungalow, and young Doug with his dad. They return to Pickfair for dinner, see a picture run off in the evening, and Joan goes home and to bed at 10 P.M. 

In the summer, however, they go to the beach, but fifteen minutes away, and lie in the sun on the sand in their bathing suits. 

Incidentally, Joan calls Doug, Sr., her &quot;Uncle Douglas&quot;—but Mary is not &quot;Aunt Mary.&quot;

Joan confided how she came to buy her very first house two years ago. &quot;You see, I support
&lt;section end=&quot;How They Manage Their Homes&quot; /&gt;
&lt;section begin=&quot;Advertisement&quot; /&gt;{{rule}}

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 101 - Vivaudou.png|center|400px|Vivaudou]]
&lt;section end=&quot;Advertisement&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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 | deathyear    = &lt;!--data now imported from wikidata, please consider deleting once matched--&gt;
 | description  = American cartoonist and illustrator.
}}

==Works (as illustrator)==

* {{article link
 | article = Revolution in Hollywood
 | periodical = Photoplay | volume = 36 | issue = 3
 | year = 1929 | month = 08
}}

{{PD-US|1984}}</text>
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 | next       = [[../The Shadow Stage/]]
 | notes      = 
}}

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|image=[[File:Pansies Lawrence p9.jpg|center|400px]]
|width=400
|item1={{c|{{xxxl|{{lsp|.5em|PANSIE}}S}}

{{lsp|1em|POEM}}S

{{dhr|3em}}

{{l|{{lsp|.4em|D. H. LAWRENC}}E}}
}}
|width1=400
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{{dhr}}
{{c|''Privately Printed at the''

PRESS OF THEO GAUS' SONS, INC.,

Brooklyn, New York}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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start=follow|
I booze and fornicate and use foul language and despise your honest man.—
But why should the worm that has turned protest so much?
The bonnie bonnie bourgeois goes a-whoring up back streets
just the same
The busy busy bourgeois imbibes his little share
just the same
if not more.
The pretty pretty bourgeois pinks his language just as pink
if not pinker,
and in private boasts his exploits even louder, if you ask me,
than the other.
While as to honesty, Oh look where the money lies!

So I can't see where the worm that has turned puts anything over
the worm that is too cunning to turn.
On the contrary, he merely gives himself away.
The turned worm shouts: I bravely booze!
the other says: Have one with me!
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|14}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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start=follow|
I booze and fornicate and use foul language and despise your honest man.—

But why should the worm that has turned protest so much?
The bonnie bonnie bourgeois goes a-whoring up back streets
just the same
The busy busy bourgeois imbibes his little share
just the same
if not more.
The pretty pretty bourgeois pinks his language just as pink
if not pinker,
and in private boasts his exploits even louder, if you ask me,
than the other.
While as to honesty, Oh look where the money lies!

So I can't see where the worm that has turned puts anything over
the worm that is too cunning to turn.
On the contrary, he merely gives himself away.
The turned worm shouts: I bravely booze!
the other says: Have one with me!
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|14}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Imperial Dictionary of Universal Biography/Falconer, William</title>
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title      = [[../]]  | author     =   | contributor = John Francis Waller  | translator =   | section    = Falconer, William  | previous   = Falconer, Thomas  | next       = Falconet, Camille  | year       = 1876  | portal     =   | notes      =  }}  &lt;pages index=&quot;Imperialdictiona02eadi Brandeis.pdf&quot; from=348 fromsection=&quot;348Zcontin&quot; to=349 tosection=&quot;348Zcontin&quot; /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/35</title>
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start=follow|
The turned worm boasts: I copulate!
the unturned says: You look it.
You're a d{{ld}} b{{ld}} b{{ld}} p{{ld}} bb{{ld}}, says the worm that's turned.
Quite! says the other. Cuckoo!
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|NATURAL COMPLEXION|
Bur you see, said the handsome young man with the chamois gloves
to the woman rather older than himself,
if you don't use rouge and a lip-stick, in Paris
they'll take you for a woman of the people.

So spoke the british gentleman
pulling on his chamois gloves
and using his most melodious would-be-oxford voice.

And the woman said: Dear me!
how rough that would be on you, darling!
Only, if you insist on pulling on those chamois gloves
I swear I'll pull off my knickers, right in the Rue de la Paix.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|15}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/36</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847880</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133657</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:14:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133657</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="613" sha1="hoimansefk714sjj90nbxehphhlvic1" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|THE OXFORD VOICE|
When you hear it languishing
and booing and cooing and sidling through the front teeth,
:::::the oxford voice
::::::or worse still
::::the would-be oxford voice
you don't even laugh any more, you can't.

For every blooming bird is an oxford cuckoo nowadays,
you can't sit on a bus nor in the tube
but it breathes gently and languishingly in the back of your neck.

And oh, so seductively superior, so seductively
:::::self-effacingly
:::::deprecatingly
::::::superior.—
We wouldn't insist on it for a moment
:::::but we are
::::::we are
::::you admit we are
::::::superior.—
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|16}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/37</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847881</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133661</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:15:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133661</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="756" sha1="kb7jl9h2lx4d8vbv4excm9ulmpjlkt3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|TRUE DEMOCRACY
I wish I was a gentleman
as full of wet as a watering-can
to whizz in the eye of a police-man—

But my dear fellow, my dear fellow
can it be that you still don't know
that every man, whether high or low
is a gentleman if he thinks himself so?—

He is an' all, you bet 'e is!
I bet I am.—You can 'old yer phiz
abaht it.—Yes, I'm a gent, an' Liz
ere, she's a lidy, aren't yer, old quizz?—

Of course I'm a lidy, what d'yer think?
You mind who yer sayin' isn't lidies!
''All'' the hinglish is gentlemen an' lidies,
like the King an' Queen, though they're up just a wink.—

—Of course you are, but let me say
I'm American, from New Orleans,
and in my country, just over the way,
we are ''all'' kings and queens!—
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|17}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>kb7jl9h2lx4d8vbv4excm9ulmpjlkt3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133662</id>
      <parentid>15133661</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:15:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133662</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="757" sha1="7mmxap71h9qpk4sxvzqmqu7whm3ebaj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|TRUE DEMOCRACY|
I wish I was a gentleman
as full of wet as a watering-can
to whizz in the eye of a police-man—

But my dear fellow, my dear fellow
can it be that you still don't know
that every man, whether high or low
is a gentleman if he thinks himself so?—

He is an' all, you bet 'e is!
I bet I am.—You can 'old yer phiz
abaht it.—Yes, I'm a gent, an' Liz
ere, she's a lidy, aren't yer, old quizz?—

Of course I'm a lidy, what d'yer think?
You mind who yer sayin' isn't lidies!
''All'' the hinglish is gentlemen an' lidies,
like the King an' Queen, though they're up just a wink.—

—Of course you are, but let me say
I'm American, from New Orleans,
and in my country, just over the way,
we are ''all'' kings and queens!—
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|17}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7mmxap71h9qpk4sxvzqmqu7whm3ebaj</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Lives of the Twelve Caesars (Thomson and Forester).djvu/76</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847882</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133665</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:19:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TheTimeBombII</username>
        <id>3137028</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133665</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2877" sha1="c0uom7j7bsg3h8k5p6evz9i9gep17oe" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;TheTimeBombII&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|60|{{sc|remarks on the life and times of}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{hwe|positions|compositions}}, wrote the annals of the Roman Republic in heroic verse. His style, like that of Andronicus, was rough and unpolished, in conformity to the language of those times; but for grandeur of sentiment and energy of expression, he was admired by the greatest poets in the subsequent ages. Other writers of distinguished reputation in the dramatic department were Nævius, Pacuvius, Plautus, Afranius, Cæcilius, Terence, Accius, &amp;c. Accius and Pacuvius are mentioned by Quintilian as writers of extraordinary merit. Of twenty-five comedies written by Plautus, the number transmitted to posterity is nineteen; and of a hundred and eight which Terence is said to have translated from Menander, there now remain only six. Excepting a few inconsiderable fragments, the writings of all the other authors have perished. The early period of Roman literature was distinguished for the introduction of satire by Lucilius, an author celebrated for writing with remarkable ease, but whose compositions, in the opinion of Horace, though Quintilian thinks otherwise, were debased with a mixture of feculency. Whatever may have been their merit, they also have perished, with the works of a number of orators, who adorned the advancing state of letters in the Roman Republic. It is observable, that during this whole period, of near two centuries and a half, there appeared not one historian of eminence sufficient to preserve his name from oblivion.

Julius Cæsar himself is one of the most eminent writers of the age in which he lived. His commentaries on the Gallic and Civil Wars are written with a purity, precision, and perspicuity, which command approbation. They are elegant without affectation, and beautiful without ornament. Of the two books which he composed on Analogy, and those under the title of Anti-Cato, scarcely any fragment is preserved; but we may be assured of the justness of the observations on language, which were made by an author so much distinguished by the excellence of his own compositions. His poem entitled The Journey, which was probably an entertaining narrative, is likewise totally lost.

The most illustrious prose writer of this or any other age is M. Tullius Cicero; and as his life is copiously related in biographical works, it will be sufficient to mention his writings. From his earliest years, he applied himself with unremitting assiduity to the cultivation of literature, and, whilst he was yet a boy, wrote a poem, called Glaucus Pontius, which was extant in Plutarch's time. Amongst his juvenile productions was a translation into Latin verse, of Aratus on the Phænomena of the Heavens; of which many fragments are still extant. He also published a poem of the heroic kind, in honour of his countryman C. Marius, who was born at Arpinum, the birth-place of Cicero.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>c0uom7j7bsg3h8k5p6evz9i9gep17oe</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/38</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847883</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133681</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:34:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133681</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="599" sha1="e6psaco4k3oyc0bwp7d9jl3j9tfdwvc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|TO BE SUPERIOR|
How nice it is to be superior!
Because really, it's no use pretending, one ''is'' superior, isn't one?
I mean people like you and me.—

Quite! I quite agree.
The trouble is, everybody thinks they're just as superior
as we are; just as superior.—

That's what's so boring! people are so boring.
But they can't really think it, do you think?
At the bottom, they must ''know'' we are really superior
don't you think?
don't you think, ''really,'' they ''know'' we're their superiors?—

I couldn't say.
I've never got to the bottom of superiority.
I should like to.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|18}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>e6psaco4k3oyc0bwp7d9jl3j9tfdwvc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/39</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847884</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133682</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:35:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133682</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="569" sha1="npkij9anuv2vjf05h2m2jlcu8e4wzsw" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|SWAN|
Far-off
at the core of space
at the quick
of time
beats
and goes still
the great swan upon the waters of all endings
the swan within vast chaos, within the electron.

For us
no longer he swims calmly
nor clacks across the forces furrowing a great gay trail
of happy energy,
nor is he nesting passive upon the atoms,
nor flying north desolative icewards
to the sleep of ice,
nor feeding in the marshes,
nor honking horn-like into the twilight.—

But he stoops, now
in the dark
upon us;
he is treading our women
and we men are put out
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|19}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>npkij9anuv2vjf05h2m2jlcu8e4wzsw</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/40</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847885</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133684</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:36:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133684</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="684" sha1="1u1wvhpejp9nk76uddawwfwkrq4mn6j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
as the vast white bird
furrows our feartherless women
with unknown shocks
and stamps his black marsh-feet on their white and marshy flesh.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|LEDA
Come not with kisses
not with caresses
of hands and lips and murmurings;
come with a hiss of wings
and sea-touch tip of a beak
and treading of wet, webbed, wave-working feet
into the marsh-soft belly.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;c&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|GIVE US GODS|
Give us gods, Oh give them us!
Give us gods.
We are so tired of men
and motor-power.—

But not god grey-bearded and dictatorial,
nor yet that pale young man afraid of fatherhood
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|20}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1u1wvhpejp9nk76uddawwfwkrq4mn6j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133685</id>
      <parentid>15133684</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:36:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133685</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="685" sha1="s5z0344txcjowsrdm1i3lhhsrqfl59j" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
as the vast white bird
furrows our feartherless women
with unknown shocks
and stamps his black marsh-feet on their white and marshy flesh.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|LEDA|
Come not with kisses
not with caresses
of hands and lips and murmurings;
come with a hiss of wings
and sea-touch tip of a beak
and treading of wet, webbed, wave-working feet
into the marsh-soft belly.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;c&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|GIVE US GODS|
Give us gods, Oh give them us!
Give us gods.
We are so tired of men
and motor-power.—

But not god grey-bearded and dictatorial,
nor yet that pale young man afraid of fatherhood
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|20}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>s5z0344txcjowsrdm1i3lhhsrqfl59j</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/41</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847886</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133686</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:37:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133686</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="763" sha1="8giazufij5m95filgio1wdjn76ej1yx" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
shelving substance on to the woman, Madonna mia! shabby virgin!
nor gusty Jove, with his eye on immortal tarts,
nor even the musical, suave young fellow
wooing boys and beauty.

Give us gods
give us something else—

Beyond the great bull that bellowed through space, and got his throat cut.
Beyond even that eagle, that phœnix, hanging over the gold egg of all things,
further still, before the curled horns of the ram stepped forth
or the stout swart beetle rolled the globe of dung in which man should hatch,
or even the sly gold serpent fatherly lifted his head off the earth to think—

Give us gods before these—
Thou shalt have other gods before these.

Where the waters end in marshes
swims the wild swan
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|21}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8giazufij5m95filgio1wdjn76ej1yx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/42</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847887</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133687</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:38:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133687</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="784" sha1="d94hsbhvdel6z1emakh1llwn9wmo0wp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
sweeps the high goose above the mists
honking in the gloom the honk of procreation from such throats.

Mists
where the electron behaves and misbehaves as it will,
where the forces tie themselves up into knots of atoms
and come untied;
mists
of mistiness complicated into knots and clots that barge about
and bump on one another and explode into more mist, or don't,
mist of energy most scientific—
But give us gods!

Look then
where the father of all things swims in a mist of atoms
electrons and energies, quantums and relativities
mists, wreathing mists,
like a wild swan, or a goose, whose honk goes through my bladder.

And in the dark unscientific I feel the drum-winds of his wings
and the drip of his cold, webbed feet, mud-black
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|22}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>d94hsbhvdel6z1emakh1llwn9wmo0wp</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/43</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847888</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133688</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:39:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133688</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="782" sha1="09c12277550k8ulc930ha9ew6ro6410" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
brush over my face as he goes
to seek the women in the dark, our women, our weird women whom he treads
with dreams and thrusts that make them cry in their sleep.

Gods, do you ask for gods?
Where there is woman there is swan.

Do you think, scientific man, you'll be father of your own babies?
Don't imagine it.
There'll be babies born that are cygnets, O my soul!
young wild swans!
And babies of women will come out young wild geese, O my heart!
the geese that saved Rome, and will lose London.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|WON'T IT BE STRANGE{{ld}}?|
Won't it be strange, when the nurse brings the new-born infant
to the proud father, and shows its little, webbed greenish feet
made to smite the waters behind it?
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|23}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>09c12277550k8ulc930ha9ew6ro6410</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/44</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847889</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133690</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:39:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133690</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="870" sha1="539gg8xolvt6gw1v5ab98jgibxmc3kn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
or the round, wild vivid eye of a wild-goose staring
out of fathomless skies and seas?
or when it utters that undaunted little bird-cry
of one who will settle on ice-bergs, and honk across the Nile?—

And when the father says: This is none of mine!
Woman, where got you this little beast?—
will there be a whistle of wings in the air, and an icy draught?
will the singing of swans, high up, high up, invisible
break the drums of his ears
and leave him forever listening for the answer?
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|SPIRAL FLAME|
There have been so many gods
that now there are none.
When the One God made a monopoly of it
he wore us out, so now we are godless and unbelieving.

Yet, O my young men, there is a vivifier.
There is that which makes us eager.
While we are eager, we think nothing of it.
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|24}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>539gg8xolvt6gw1v5ab98jgibxmc3kn</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/45</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847890</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133691</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:40:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133691</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="871" sha1="s54cruyvo1tt0jeakcv6xbx7ajhka87" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=stanza|
Sum ergo non cogito.
But when our eagerness leaves us, we are godless and full of thought.

We have worn out the gods, and they us.
That pale one, filled with renunciation and pain and white love
has worn us weary of renunciation and love and even pain.
That strong one, ruling the universe with a rod of iron
has sickened us thoroughly with rods of iron and rulers and strong men.
The All-wise has tired us of wisdom.
The weeping mother of god, inconsolable over her son
makes us prefer to be womanless, rather than be wept over.
And that poor late makeshift, Aphrodite emerging in a bathing-suit from our modern sea-side foam
has successfully killed all desire in us whatsoever.

Yet, O my young men, there is a vivifier.
There is a swan-like flame that curls round the centre of space
and flutters at the core of the atom,
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|25}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>s54cruyvo1tt0jeakcv6xbx7ajhka87</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/46</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847891</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133692</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:41:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133692</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="903" sha1="6crktr1wy1fvd1d9lmddn59609m2rry" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
there is a spiral flame-tip that can lick our little atoms into fusion.
so we roar up like bonfires of vitality
and fuse in a broad hard flame of many men in a oneness.

O pillars of flame by night, O my young men
spinning and dancing like flamey fire-spouts in the dark ahead of the multitude!
O ruddy god in our veins, O fiery god in our genitals!
O rippling hard fire of courage, O fusing of hot trust
when the fire reaches us, O my young men!

And the same flame that fills us with life, it will dance and burn the house down,
all the fittings and elaborate furnishings
and all the people that go with the fittings and the furnishings,
the upholstered dead that sit in deep arm-chairs.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR DEAD{{ld}}|
Let the dead go bury their dead
don't help them.
Let the dead look after the dead
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|26}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6crktr1wy1fvd1d9lmddn59609m2rry</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/47</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847892</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133694</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:46:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133694</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="818" sha1="lu3o8kuko6afqo4ronmw5422d99dao7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
leave them to one another,
don't serve them.

The dead in their nasty dead hands
have heaps of money,
don't take it.

The dead in their seething minds
have phosphorescent teeming white words
of putrescent wisdom and sapience that subtly stinks;
don't ever believe them.

The dead are in myriads, they seem mighty.
They make trains chuff, motor-cars titter, ships lurch,
mills grind on and on,
and keep you in millions at the mills, sightless pale slaves,
pretending these are the mills of God.

It is the great lie of the dead.
The mills of industry are not the mills of God.
And the mills of God grind otherwise, with the winds of life for the mill-stones.
Trust the mills of God, though they grind exceeding small.
But as for the mills of men
don't be harnessed to them.
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|27}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf/55</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847893</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133696</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:47:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SciWhiz12</username>
        <id>2871478</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133696</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2210" sha1="aox8mqwn2v4b72nvtut46itzeh62u2r" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;SciWhiz12&quot; /&gt;{{blue|{{rh|Case 1:25-cv-00716-BAH|Document 185|Filed 05/02/25|Page 55 of 102}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;presidential election; (2) the Firm’s involvement in litigation against “election laws, including those requiring voter identification”; and (3) the Firm’s alleged discrimination in “hiring and promotion” and efforts to “purposefully hide the nature of” this alleged discrimination “through deceiving language.” EO 14230 § 1, 90 Fed. Reg. at 11781. The associated fact sheet adds a fourth: “Perkins Coie LLP has filed lawsuits against the Trump Administration,” which are also described as “partisan lawsuits against the United States.” ''EO 14230 Fact Sheet.'' These four reasons are the sole rationales provided for the issuance of EO 14230, ''see generally'' EO 14230, 90 Fed. Reg. at 11781-83; ''EO 14230 Fact Sheet'', and each, on their face, implicate First Amendment protected activities.

'''i. Plaintiff’s Representation of Clients'''

The first, second, and fourth reasons reference the Firm’s representation of clients, namely: President Trump’s opponent in the 2016 presidential election, parties in election litigation, and parties challenging Trump Administration actions. Well-settled law establishes that “advocacy by {{. . .}} attorney[s] to the courts” falls within the category of “private {{. . .}} speech” protected by the First Amendment, ''Legal Servs. Corp.'', 531 U.S. at 542-43; ''see also [[NAACP v. Button]]'', 371 U.S. 415, 429 (1963) (“[T]he First Amendment {{. . .}} protects vigorous advocacy, certainly of lawful ends, against governmental intrusion,” including litigation, which “is thus a form of political expression.”), meaning that plaintiff’s representation of a political opponent of the current President and involvement in election litigation and lawsuits against the Trump Administration explicitly qualifies as core First Amendment speech.&lt;ref&gt;Plaintiff’s involvement in litigation is also protected under the First Amendment right to petition the government and thus retaliation on this basis also runs afoul of First Amendment protections, as discussed ''infra'' Part III.B.5.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|30%}}
{{smallrefs}}
{{c|55}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>aox8mqwn2v4b72nvtut46itzeh62u2r</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133700</id>
      <parentid>15133696</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:49:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SciWhiz12</username>
        <id>2871478</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Add missing nop</comment>
      <origin>15133700</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2218" sha1="echc42gvc0oj226khlzeypn0y2yn0rg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;SciWhiz12&quot; /&gt;{{blue|{{rh|Case 1:25-cv-00716-BAH|Document 185|Filed 05/02/25|Page 55 of 102}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;presidential election; (2) the Firm’s involvement in litigation against “election laws, including those requiring voter identification”; and (3) the Firm’s alleged discrimination in “hiring and promotion” and efforts to “purposefully hide the nature of” this alleged discrimination “through deceiving language.” EO 14230 § 1, 90 Fed. Reg. at 11781. The associated fact sheet adds a fourth: “Perkins Coie LLP has filed lawsuits against the Trump Administration,” which are also described as “partisan lawsuits against the United States.” ''EO 14230 Fact Sheet.'' These four reasons are the sole rationales provided for the issuance of EO 14230, ''see generally'' EO 14230, 90 Fed. Reg. at 11781-83; ''EO 14230 Fact Sheet'', and each, on their face, implicate First Amendment protected activities.

'''i. Plaintiff’s Representation of Clients'''

The first, second, and fourth reasons reference the Firm’s representation of clients, namely: President Trump’s opponent in the 2016 presidential election, parties in election litigation, and parties challenging Trump Administration actions. Well-settled law establishes that “advocacy by {{. . .}} attorney[s] to the courts” falls within the category of “private {{. . .}} speech” protected by the First Amendment, ''Legal Servs. Corp.'', 531 U.S. at 542-43; ''see also [[NAACP v. Button]]'', 371 U.S. 415, 429 (1963) (“[T]he First Amendment {{. . .}} protects vigorous advocacy, certainly of lawful ends, against governmental intrusion,” including litigation, which “is thus a form of political expression.”), meaning that plaintiff’s representation of a political opponent of the current President and involvement in election litigation and lawsuits against the Trump Administration explicitly qualifies as core First Amendment speech.&lt;ref&gt;Plaintiff’s involvement in litigation is also protected under the First Amendment right to petition the government and thus retaliation on this basis also runs afoul of First Amendment protections, as discussed ''infra'' Part III.B.5.&lt;/ref&gt;
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|30%}}
{{smallrefs}}
{{c|55}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>echc42gvc0oj226khlzeypn0y2yn0rg</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/48</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847894</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133697</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:47:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133697</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="833" sha1="o5xqzpy98qf92u55qt4q6al97jh9xr2" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=stanza|
The dead give ships and engines, cinema, radio and gramophone,
they send aeroplanes across the sky,
and they say: Now, behold, you are living the great life!
While you listen in, while you watch the film, while you drive the car,
while you read about the air-ship crossing the wild Atlantic
behold, you are living the great life, the stupendous life!l—

As you know, it is a complete lie.
You are all going dead and corpse-pale
listening in to the lie.
Spit it out.

O cease to listen to the living dead.
They are only greedy for your life!
O cease to labour for the gold-toothed dead,
they are so greedy, yet so helpless if not worked for.
Don't ever be kind to the smiling, tooth-mouthed dead
don't ever be kind to the dead
it is pandering to corpses,
the repulsive, living fat dead.
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|28}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>o5xqzpy98qf92u55qt4q6al97jh9xr2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/49</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847895</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133699</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:49:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133699</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="830" sha1="gbgc1oqrxy96yf6vmwd0yatynledyn3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=stanza|
Bury a man gently if he has lain down and died.
But with the walking and talking and conventionally persuasive dead
with bank accounts and insurance policies
don't sympathise, or you taint the unborn babes.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|WHEN WILT THOU TEACH THE PEOPLE{{ld}}?|
When wilt thou teach the people
God of justice, to save themselves—?
They have been saved so often
and sold.

O God of justice, send no more saviours
of the people!

When a saviour has saved a people
they find he has sold them to his father.
They say: We are saved, but we are starving.
He says: The sooner will you eat imaginary cake in the mansions of my father.
They say: Can't we have a loaf of common bread?
He says: No, you must go to heaven, and eat the most marvellous cake.—
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|29}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gbgc1oqrxy96yf6vmwd0yatynledyn3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf/56</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847896</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133701</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:49:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SciWhiz12</username>
        <id>2871478</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133701</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2383" sha1="218tch1rljt52m6o12iwcktd8j31bor" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;SciWhiz12&quot; /&gt;{{blue|{{rh|Case 1:25-cv-00716-BAH|Document 185|Filed 05/02/25|Page 56 of 102}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Moreover, as part of plaintiff’s involvement in election litigation, EO 14230 further states that plaintiff “worked with” what is described as “activist donors,” specifically naming “George Soros,” in bringing these cases. EO 14230 § 1, 90 Fed. Reg. at 11781. This relationship explicitly invokes core First Amendment associational rights. ''See, e.g., Button'', 371 U.S. at 430 (affirming “the right ‘to engage in association for the advancement of beliefs and ideas’” (quoting ''Patterson'', 357 at 460)). So, too, does plaintiff’s representation of and association with President Trump’s former presidential opponent. ''See generally, e.g., Rutan'', 497 U.S. at 64-65, 68-71 (explaining a long line of Supreme Court cases protecting political association); ''id.'' at 69 (“Political belief and association constitute the core of those activities protected by the First Amendment.” (alteration accepted) (quoting ''[[Elrod v. Burns]]'', 427 U.S. 347, 356 (1976) (plurality opinion))).

Both EO 14230 and the accompanying fact sheet additionally make clear that President Trump and his administration disfavor the specific messages conveyed by plaintiff through involvement in these activities. For instance, the Order expresses disapproval of the electionrelated lawsuits litigated by plaintiff challenging actions supported by President Trump or his campaign, EO 14230 § 1, 90 Fed. Reg. at 11781 (describing the challenged laws as “necessary”), and with other lawsuits filed by plaintiff on behalf of its clients “''against'' the Trump Administration” and “''against'' the United States,” ''EO 14230 Fact Sheet'' (emphasis supplied). The Order also takes issue with plaintiff’s representation in the 2016 presidential election of President Trump’s political opponent and, as part of that representation, some of plaintiff’s former employees associated with an opposition research firm, Fusion GPS. ''See'' EO 14230 § 1, 90 Fed. Reg. at 11781; ''see also'' Pl.’s SMF ¶ 125 (quoting President Trump, immediately before signing EO 14230, criticizing plaintiff’s work “against a political opponent” (him) and stating that “it should never be allowed to happen again”). Finally, the fact sheet disparages plaintiff as “partisan”&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|56}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>218tch1rljt52m6o12iwcktd8j31bor</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/50</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847897</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133702</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:51:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133702</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="837" sha1="3csk9ad7kxutxuryftvf7drbivcgp0z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=stanza|
Or Napoleon says: Since I have saved you from the ci-devants,
you are my property, be prepared to die for me, and to work for me.—
Or later republicans say: You are saved,
therefore you are our savings, our capital
with which we shall do big business.—
Or Lenin says: You are saved, but you are saved wholesale.
You are no longer men, that is bourgeois;
you are items in the soviet state,
and each item will get its ration,
but it is the soviet state alone which counts
the items are of small importance,
the state having saved them all.—

And so it goes on, with the saving of the people.
God of justice, when wilt thou teach them to save themselves?
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|A LIVING|
A man should never earn his living,
if he earns his life he'll be lovely.
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|30}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3csk9ad7kxutxuryftvf7drbivcgp0z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133703</id>
      <parentid>15133702</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:52:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133703</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="839" sha1="qkqh9oat9u1o6omrm9zg15agbc3c3la" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=stanza|
Or Napoleon says: Since I have saved you from the ci-devants,
you are my property, be prepared to die for me, and to work for me.—

Or later republicans say: You are saved,
therefore you are our savings, our capital
with which we shall do big business.—

Or Lenin says: You are saved, but you are saved wholesale.
You are no longer men, that is bourgeois;
you are items in the soviet state,
and each item will get its ration,
but it is the soviet state alone which counts
the items are of small importance,
the state having saved them all.—

And so it goes on, with the saving of the people.
God of justice, when wilt thou teach them to save themselves?
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|A LIVING|
A man should never earn his living,
if he earns his life he'll be lovely.
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|30}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qkqh9oat9u1o6omrm9zg15agbc3c3la</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Perkins Coie v. DOJ, Memorandum Opinion.pdf/57</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847898</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133705</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:52:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SciWhiz12</username>
        <id>2871478</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133705</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2100" sha1="9vjtad7fir2ay1xg7k3yiqgfamek0km" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;SciWhiz12&quot; /&gt;{{blue|{{rh|Case 1:25-cv-00716-BAH|Document 185|Filed 05/02/25|Page 57 of 102}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;three separate times, ''EO 14230 Fact Sheet'' (referring to “partisan lawsuits,” unsubstantiated concerns about “partisan misuse” of information, and associating with “partisan actors who exploit their influence”), making explicit that those in power disagree with the political and litigation positions taken by clients of plaintiff.

'''ii. Plaintiff’s Statements about Diversity'''

As to the third reason—that plaintiff supposedly engages in unlawful discrimination—the record also demonstrates that this claim refers to plaintiff’s First Amendment protected speech in favor of diversity.

The government predicates the claim of discrimination on two items. First, the government cites a 2023 lawsuit challenging plaintiff’s summer fellowship program for first-year law students. Gov’t’s Mem. at 8 (citing Am. ''All. for Equal Rights v. Perkins Coie LLP'', No. 3:23-cv-1877 (N.D. Tex.)). Plaintiff has explained that, after explicitly affirming the inclusive nature of the fellowship and confirming with the plaintiff in that lawsuit that the law student fellowships were open to all, the lawsuit was voluntarily dismissed, in October 2023. Pl.’s SMF ¶¶ 22-23. Indeed, the government concedes that plaintiff’s description of its fellowship program does “not contain discriminatory requirements.” Gov’t’s Mem. at 8 (citing Lawson Decl., Ex. 12, Stip. of Dismissal ¶¶ 3-4, ''Am. All. for Equal Rights'', ECF No. 31 (filed Oct. 11, 2023), ECF No. 142-2 at 230); ''see also'' Gov’t’s Resp. to Pl.’s SMF at 2 (noting, in response to ¶¶ 22-23, that the government does not dispute that plaintiff’s current fellowship program is open to all first-year law students). Regardless of the merits of any claims asserted in the 2023 lawsuit or any alleged or even actual illegality in the former version of the fellowship program, this referenced lawsuit provides no support for the claim that plaintiff currently discriminates against any staff or applicants.
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|57}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>The New International Encyclopædia/Falconer, Hugh</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847899</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133706</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:53:37Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{NIE  |previous = Falconer, Edmund  |next = Falconer, William  |wikipedia = Hugh Falconer  |edition = 1905 }} &lt;pages index=&quot;The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 07.djvu&quot; include=487 onlysection=&quot;Falconer, Hugh&quot; /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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      <text bytes="224" sha1="4gm69oxr4a65j7qttwlo5oqngeuzyin" xml:space="preserve">{{NIE
 |previous = Falconer, Edmund
 |next = Falconer, William
 |wikipedia = Hugh Falconer
 |edition = 1905
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 07.djvu&quot; include=487 onlysection=&quot;Falconer, Hugh&quot; /&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/51</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847900</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133707</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:54:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133707</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="868" sha1="7obd1ifkdav2k5wajckbxvtjwqffbg7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=stanza|
A bird
picks up its seeds or little snails
between heedless earth and heaven
in heedlessness.

But, the plucky little sport, it gives to life
song, and chirruping, gay feathers, fluff-shadowed warmth
and all the unspeakable charm of birds hopping and fluttering and being birds.
—And we, we get it all from them for nothing.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|WHEN I WENT TO THE FILM{{ld}}|
When I went to the film, and saw all the black-and- white feelings that nobody felt,
and heard the audience sighing and sobbing with all the emotions they none of them felt,
and saw them cuddling with rising passions they none of them for a moment felt,
and caught them moaning from close-up kisses, black-and-white kisses that could not be felt,
it was like being in heaven, which I am sure has a white atmosphere
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|31}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7obd1ifkdav2k5wajckbxvtjwqffbg7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133709</id>
      <parentid>15133707</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T08:55:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133709</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="867" sha1="rhkhv78dnyler9h598uxjq440mtbd1m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=stanza|
A bird
picks up its seeds or little snails
between heedless earth and heaven
in heedlessness.

But, the plucky little sport, it gives to life
song, and chirruping, gay feathers, fluff-shadowed warmth
and all the unspeakable charm of birds hopping and fluttering and being birds.
—And we, we get it all from them for nothing.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|WHEN I WENT TO THE FILM{{ld}}|
When I went to the film, and saw all the black-and-white feelings that nobody felt,
and heard the audience sighing and sobbing with all the emotions they none of them felt,
and saw them cuddling with rising passions they none of them for a moment felt,
and caught them moaning from close-up kisses, black-and-white kisses that could not be felt,
it was like being in heaven, which I am sure has a white atmosphere
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|31}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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 |previous = Falconer, Hugh
 |next = Falconet, Etienne Maurice
 |wikipedia = William Falconer (poet)
 |edition = 1905
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The New International Encyclopædia 1st ed. v. 07.djvu&quot; include=487 onlysection=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/52</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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start=follow|
upon which shadows of people, pure personalities
are cast in black and white, and move
in flat ecstasy, supremely unfelt,
and heavenly.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|WHEN I WENT TO THE CIRCUS—|
When I went to the circus that had pitched on the waste lot
it was full of uneasy people
frightened of the bare earth and the temporary canvas
and the smell of horses and other beasts
instead of merely the smell of man.

Monkeys rode rather grey and wizened
on curly plump piebald ponies
and the children uttered a little cry—
and dogs jumped through hoops and turned somersaults
and then the geese scuttled in in a little flock
and round the ring they went to the sound of the whip
then doubled, and back, with a funny up-flutter of wings—
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|32}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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start=follow|
upon which shadows of people, pure personalities
are cast in black and white, and move
in flat ecstasy, supremely unfelt,
and heavenly.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|WHEN I WENT TO THE CIRCUS{{ld}}|
When I went to the circus that had pitched on the waste lot
it was full of uneasy people
frightened of the bare earth and the temporary canvas
and the smell of horses and other beasts
instead of merely the smell of man.

Monkeys rode rather grey and wizened
on curly plump piebald ponies
and the children uttered a little cry—
and dogs jumped through hoops and turned somersaults
and then the geese scuttled in in a little flock
and round the ring they went to the sound of the whip
then doubled, and back, with a funny up-flutter of wings—
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|32}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/53</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847903</id>
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      <id>15133714</id>
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start=follow|
and the children suddenly shouted out.
Then came the hush again, like a hush of fear.

The tight-rope lady, pink and blonde and nude-looking, with a few gold spangles
footed cautiously out on the rope, turned prettily, spun round
bowed, and lifted her foot in her hand, smiled, swung her parasol
to another balance, tripped round, poised, and slowly sank
her handsome thighs down, down, till she slept her splendid body on the rope.
When she rose, tilting her parasol, and smiled at the cautious people
they cheered, but nervously.

The trapeze man, slim and beautiful and like a fish in the air
swung great curves through the upper space, and came down like a star
—And the people applauded, with hollow, frightened applause.

The elephants, huge and grey, loomed their curved bulk through the dusk
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|33}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{Center|{{xx-larger|'''LAWS OF MALAYSIA'''}}
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
{{x-larger|'''Act 792'''}}
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
'''SEXUAL OFFENCES AGAINST CHILDREN ACT 2017'''}}
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/54</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847905</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133716</id>
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start=follow|
and sat up, taking strange postures, showing the pink soles of their feet
and curling their precious live trunks like ammonites
and moving always with soft slow precision
as when a great ship moves to anchor.
The people watched and wondered, and seemed to resent the mystery that lies in beasts.

Horse, gay horses, swirling round and plaiting
in a long line, their heads laid over each other's necks;
they were happy, they enjoyed it;
all the creatures seemed to enjoy the game
in the circus, with their circus people.

But the audience, compelled to wonder
compelled to admire the bright rhythms of moving bodies
compelled to see the delicate skill of flickering human bodies
flesh flamey and a little heroic, even in a tumbling clown,
they were not really happy.
There was no gushing response, as there is at the film.

When modern people see the carnal body dauntless and flickering gay
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|34}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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|-
| Date of Royal Assent ... ... || 3 July 2017
|-
| Date of publication in the&lt;br&gt;''Gazette''{{Gap|5em}}... ... ... || {{ts|vbm}}|7 June 20123 July 2017
|}
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Smaller|Publisher’s Copyright ©}}

{{Smaller|'''PERCETAKAN NASIONAL MALAYSIA BERHAD'''}}

{{Smaller|All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording and/or otherwise without the prior permission of '''Percetakan Nasional Malaysia Berhad'''}}

{{Smaller|(Appointed Printer to the Government of Malaysia).}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="1167" sha1="6hba4nv6hsdhgf549tr1rjl43yocpoj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|'''LAWS OF MALAYSIA&lt;br&gt;Act 792&lt;br&gt;SEXUAL OFFENCES AGAINST CHILDREN ACT 2017'''}}
{{Rule|10em}}
{{Center|ARRANGEMENT OF SECTIONS}}
{{Rule|10em}}
{|style=&quot;margin: auto;&quot;
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|{{Sc|Part I&lt;br&gt;preliminary}}
|-
| {{Smaller|Section}} || 
|-
| 1. || Short title and commencement
|-
| 2. || Application
|-
| 3. || Extra-territorial application
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|{{Sc|Part II&lt;br&gt;offences relating to child pornography}}
|-
| 4. || Child pornography
|-
| 5. || Making, producing, directing the making or production of, etc., child pornography
|-
| 6. || Making preparation to make, produce or direct the making or production of child pornography
|-
| 7. || Using a child in making, producing, directing the making or production of, etc., child pornography
|-
| 8. || Exchanging, publishing, etc., child pornography
|-
| 9. || Selling, etc., child pornography to a child
|-
| 10. || Accessing, etc., child pornography
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|{{Sc|Part III&lt;br&gt;offences relating to child grooming}}
|-
| 11. || Sexually communicating with a child
|-
| 12. || Child grooming
|-
| 13. || Meeting following child grooming&lt;noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Acadiensis Q3.pdf/200</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <text bytes="1319" sha1="a5hhc00c2kcgkw1vztwe3bzk1m93txh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Fundy Isles Historian - J&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{blackletter|The Penobscot Loyalists}}
{{di|T}}O the people of New Brunswick, and most of all to those of the western parishes of Charlotte, the story of the Penobscot Associated Loyalists will always be of interest. The six tracts of shore and river lots granted. to them in 1784 extended over nearly half the length of the county. Interrupted only by the town plot of St. Andrews, the Old Settlers' Reserve at Schoodic Falls, now the town. plot of St. Stephen, the Indian Reserve, now the town of Milltown, and here and there a lot reserved for fortification or other public use, they reach from Bocabec, on the inner bay of Passamaquoddy, to Sprague's Falls, on the St. Croix; forming the greater part of the water front of the present parishes of St. Patrick, St. Andrews, St. Croix, St. David, Dufferin and St. Stephen. The Indian Lands, (now Milltown), and a tract of good farming land on the Digdeguash, though not included in the Penobscot Association grants, were granted later to officers and men of the 74th Regiment, who had been in garrison at Penobscot. Most of the people to whom these lots were granted, soldiers and civilians, had also town lots, either in St. Andrews, or in St. George's Town, which stood for a few years at the mouth of what was then called St. George's River, now known as L'Etang.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/55</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847912</id>
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      <id>15133725</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:11:22Z</timestamp>
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start=follow|
playing among the elements neatly, beyond competition
and displaying no personality,
modern people are depressed.

Modern people feel themselves at a disadvantage.
They know they have no bodies that could play among the elements.
They have only their personalities, that are best seen flat, on the film,
flat personalities in two dimensions, imponderable and touchless.

And they grudge the circus people the swooping gay weight of limbs
that flower in mere movement,
and they grudge them the immediate, physical understanding they have with their circus beasts,
and they grudge them their circus-life altogether.

Yet the strange, almost frightened shout of delight that comes now and then from the children
shows that the children vaguely know how cheated they are of their birthright
in the bright wild circus flesh.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|35}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/56</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847913</id>
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      <id>15133726</id>
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Things men have made with wakened hands, and put soft life into
are awake through years with transferred touch, and go on glowing
for long years.
And for this reason, some old things are lovely
warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|THINGS MADE BY IRON{{ld}}|
Things made by iron and handled by steel
are born dead, they are shrouds, they soak life out of us.
Till after a long time, when they are old and have steeped in our life
they begin to be soothed and soothing: then we throw them away.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|36}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>The American Cyclopædia (1879)/Falconer, Hugh</title>
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 |previous = 
 |next = Falconer, William
 |wikipedia = Hugh Falconer
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The American Cyclopædia (1879) Volume VII.djvu&quot; include=78 onlysection=&quot;Falconer, Hugh&quot; /&gt;</text>
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{|style=&quot;margin: auto;&quot;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{nopt}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|{{Sc|Part IV&lt;br&gt;offences relating to sexual assault}}
&lt;noinclude&gt;
|-
| {{Smaller|Section}} ||
&lt;/noinclude&gt;
|-
| 14. || Physical sexual assault on a child
|-
| 15. || Non-physical sexual assault on a child
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|{{Sc|Part V&lt;br&gt;person in a relationship of trust}}
|-
| 16. || Person in a relationship of trust
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|{{Sc|Part VI&lt;br&gt;capacity and evidence of child witness}}
|-
| 17. || Presumption as to capacity of a child witness
|-
| 18. || Evidence of child witness
|-
| colspan=2 align=&quot;center&quot;|{{Sc|Part VII&lt;br&gt;miscellaneous}}
|-
| 19. || Failure to give information
|-
| 20. || Presumption of age of a child
|-
| 21. || Abetment
|-
| 22. || Evidence of ''agent provocateur'' admissible
|-
| 23. || Offence by body corporate
|-
| 24. || Non-application of sections 173{{Sc|a}}, 293 and 294 of the Criminal Procedure Code
|-
| 25. || Provision regarding whipping
|-
| 26. || Rehabilitative counselling
|-
| 27. || Police supervision
|-
| 28. || Schedule
|-
| || {{Sc|Schedule}}
|}
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>The American Cyclopædia (1879)/Falconer, William</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:12:50Z</timestamp>
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        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{AmCyc  |previous = Falconer, Hugh  |next =   |wikipedia = William Falconer (poet) }} &lt;pages index=&quot;The American Cyclopædia (1879) Volume VII.djvu&quot; include=78 onlysection=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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 |previous = Falconer, Hugh
 |next = 
 |wikipedia = William Falconer (poet)
}}
&lt;pages index=&quot;The American Cyclopædia (1879) Volume VII.djvu&quot; include=78 onlysection=&quot;Falconer, William&quot; /&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/5</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847917</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133731</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:14:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ 5</comment>
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      <text bytes="997" sha1="68c5tnhly452uu3rkhyo7npk62e1thl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|'''LAWS OF MALAYSIA&lt;br&gt;Act 792&lt;br&gt;SEXUAL OFFENCES AGAINST CHILDREN ACT 2017'''}}
An Act to provide for certain sexual offences against children and their punishment in addition to other sexual offences against children and their punishment in other written laws, and in relation to it to provide for the administration of justice for children and connected matters.
{{Right|[{{Gap|12em}}]}}
'''ENACTED''' by the Parliament of Malaysia as follows:
{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part I&lt;br&gt;preliminary}}}}}}
'''Short title and commencement'''

{{Anchor|1.1}}'''1.''' (1) This Act may be cited as the Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.

{{Anchor|1.2}}(2) This Act comes into operation on a date to be appointed by the Minister by notification in the Gazette.

'''Application'''

{{Anchor|2.1}}'''2.''' (1) This Act shall apply to a child who is under the age of eighteen years and where this Act relates to any other written law, to a child of such age as specified in such written law.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/57</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847918</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133732</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:14:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133732</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="853" sha1="bm1lcc8i02wzncwab7eqv67lxwedny4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|NEW HOUSES, NEW CLOTHES{{ld}}|
New houses, new furniture, new streets, new clothes, new sheets
everything new and machine-made sucks life out of us
and makes us cold, makes us lifeless
the more we have.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|WHATEVER MAN MAKES{{ld}}|
Whatever man makes and makes it live
lives because of the life put into it.
A yard of India muslin is alive with Hindu life.
And a Navajo woman, weaving her rug in the pattern of her dream
must run the pattern out in a little break at the end
so that her soul can come out, back to her.

But in the odd pattern, like snake-marks on the sand
it leaves its trail.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;c&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|WE ARE TRANSMITTERS{{ld}}|
As we live, we are transmitters of life.
And when we fail to transmit life, life fails to flow through us.
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|37}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/58</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847919</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133735</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:16:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133735</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="814" sha1="s39onnnwzq65hgvu4fyv6ly0oan3c96" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
That is part of the mystery of sex, it is a flow onwards.
Sexless people transmit nothing.

And if, as we work, we can transmit life into our work,
life, still more life, rushes into us to compensate, to be ready
and we ripple with life through the days.

Even if it is a woman making an apple dumpling, or a man a stool,
if life goes into the pudding, good is the pudding good is the stool,
content is the woman, with fresh life rippling in to her,
content is the man.

Give, and it shall be given unto you
is still the truth about life.
But giving life is not so easy.
It doesn't mean handing it out to some mean fool, or letting the living dead eat you up.
It means kindling the life-quality where it was not,
even if it's only in the whiteness of a washed pocket-handkerchief.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|38}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/6</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847920</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133736</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:17:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ 6</comment>
      <origin>15133736</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1581" sha1="685jnxm765zqciyek51fc0sfvbhdt5s" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|6|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 747'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Anchor|2.2}}(2) Any reference to a child in respect of any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child shall include a person whom an accused believes is a person of or under the age as specified in the respective provisions of such offences.

'''Extra-territorial application'''

{{Anchor|3.0}}'''3.''' If any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child is committed by a Malaysian citizen against any child in any place outside Malaysia, he may be dealt with in respect of such offence as if the offence was committed at any place within Malaysia.
{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part II&lt;br&gt;offences relating to child pornography}}}}}}
'''Child pornography'''

{{Anchor|4.0}}'''4.''' In this Act—
:{{Anchor|4.a}}(''a'') “child pornography” means any representation in whole or in part, whether visual, audio or written or the combination of visual, audio or written, by any means including but not limited to electronic, mechanical, digital, optical or magnetic means, or manually crafted, or the combination of any means—
::{{Anchor|4.a.i}}(i) of a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct;
::{{Anchor|4.a.ii}}(ii) of a person appearing to be a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct;
::{{Anchor|4.a.iii}}(iii) of realistic or graphic images of a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct; or
::{{Anchor|4.a.iv}}(iv) of realistic or graphic images of a person appearing to be a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct; and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133755</id>
      <parentid>15133736</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:28:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
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      <text bytes="1581" sha1="4j5ngbzyd0gwpz1ulyu4hvx23g068xu" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|6|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 792'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Anchor|2.2}}(2) Any reference to a child in respect of any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child shall include a person whom an accused believes is a person of or under the age as specified in the respective provisions of such offences.

'''Extra-territorial application'''

{{Anchor|3.0}}'''3.''' If any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child is committed by a Malaysian citizen against any child in any place outside Malaysia, he may be dealt with in respect of such offence as if the offence was committed at any place within Malaysia.
{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part II&lt;br&gt;offences relating to child pornography}}}}}}
'''Child pornography'''

{{Anchor|4.0}}'''4.''' In this Act—
:{{Anchor|4.a}}(''a'') “child pornography” means any representation in whole or in part, whether visual, audio or written or the combination of visual, audio or written, by any means including but not limited to electronic, mechanical, digital, optical or magnetic means, or manually crafted, or the combination of any means—
::{{Anchor|4.a.i}}(i) of a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct;
::{{Anchor|4.a.ii}}(ii) of a person appearing to be a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct;
::{{Anchor|4.a.iii}}(iii) of realistic or graphic images of a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct; or
::{{Anchor|4.a.iv}}(iv) of realistic or graphic images of a person appearing to be a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct; and&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/59</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847921</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133737</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:18:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="781" sha1="ftzlcgk27r7v5dlg1x1m60vjczfbljn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|ALL THAT WE HAVE IS LIFE{{ld}}|
All that we have, while we live, is life;
and if you don't live during your life, you are a piece of dung.

And work is life, and life is lived in work
unless you're a wage-slave.
While a wage-slave works, he leaves life aside
and stands there a piece of dung.

Men should refuse to be lifelessly at work.
Men should refuse to be heaps of wage-earning dung.
Men should refuse to work at all, as wage-slaves.
Men should demand to work for themselves, of themselves, and put their life in it.
For if a man has no life in his work, he is mostly a heap of dung.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|LET US BE MEN{{ld}}|
For God's sake, let us be men
not monkeys minding machines
or sitting with our tails curled
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|39}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/7</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847922</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133738</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:19:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
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      <text bytes="1922" sha1="k0zve81cmxbmhvejw8dzlt1gne1eqw7" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh||''Sexual Offences against Children''|7}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;:{{Anchor|4.b}}(''b'') “sexually explicit conduct” includes actual or simulated of the following:
::{{Anchor|4.b.i}}(i) sexual intercourse, or lewd acts including physical contact involving genital to genital, oral to genital, anal to genital, or oral to anal, between persons of the same or opposite sex;
::{{Anchor|4.b.ii}}(ii) bestiality;
::{{Anchor|4.b.iii}}(iii) masturbation;
::{{Anchor|4.b.iv}}(iv) sadistic or masochistic abuse in a sexual context;
::{{Anchor|4.b.v}}(v) exhibition for sexual purpose of the genital, buttock, breast, pubic area or anus; and
::{{Anchor|4.b.vi}}(vi) use of any object or instrument for lewd acts.

'''Making, producing, directing the making or production of, etc., child pornography'''

{{Anchor|5.0}}'''5.''' Any person who makes, produces, directs the making or production of, or participates, engages or is involved, in any way, in the making, production or the directing of the making or production of, any child pornography commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding thirty years and shall also be punished with whipping of not less than six strokes.
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(''a'') ''A'', an actor approaches ''Z'', a film producer so that ''A'' can act in one of ''Z''’s film. ''Z'' offers ''A'' to act in child pornography and ''A'' agrees to do so. ''A'' acts in that child pornography. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by participating in the production of child pornography.}}
:{{Smaller|(''b'') ''A'' is a director of child pornography. ''A'' hires ''Z'', an art director to oversee the artistic aspects of ''A''’s direction of child pornography. ''Z'' does as required of him by ''A''. ''Z'' is guilty of an offence under this section by participating in the directing of the making of child pornography.}}
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/8</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847923</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133740</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:21:29Z</timestamp>
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        <username>廣九直通車</username>
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      <text bytes="2202" sha1="okehj2nt7gwi9m7u1dazpmtxvsainvv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|6|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 747'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''Making preparation to make, produce or direct the making or production of child pornography'''

{{Anchor|6.0}}'''6.''' Any person who makes any preparation to make, produce or direct the making or production of any child pornography commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years and shall also be liable to whipping.

'''Using a child in making, producing, directing the making or production of, etc., child pornography'''

{{Anchor|7.0}}'''7.''' Any person who uses or causes to be used a child in the preparation to make or produce, or in the preparation to direct the making or production of, or in the making or production of, or in the directing of the making or production of, any child pornography commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding twenty years and shall also be punished with whipping of not less than five strokes.

{{Smaller|''Explanation''—This section does not apply where the preparation to make or produce or the preparation to direct the making or production of child pornography or where the making or production or the directing of the making or production of child pornography uses or causes to be used a person appearing to be a child.}}
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(''a'') ''A'' entices ''Z'', a child through a fake singing competition advertisement and uses ''Z'' in making child pornography. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by using a child in the making of child pornography. ''A'' is also guilty of an offence under section 5 by making child pornography.}}
:{{Smaller|(''b'') ''A'' offers his six-year-old daughter ''Z'', to ''B'' for ''Z'' to act in child pornography for a certain amount of money. ''Z'' acts in child pornography that ''B'' produces. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by causing ''Z'', a child to be used in the production of child pornography. ''B'' is guilty of an offence under this section by using ''Z'', a child, in the production of child pornography and under section 5 by producing child pornography.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133747</id>
      <parentid>15133740</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:25:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133747</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2204" sha1="hy6laouchnk38g1h5ljnxcffdf9q9ei" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|7=8|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 747'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''Making preparation to make, produce or direct the making or production of child pornography'''

{{Anchor|6.0}}'''6.''' Any person who makes any preparation to make, produce or direct the making or production of any child pornography commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years and shall also be liable to whipping.

'''Using a child in making, producing, directing the making or production of, etc., child pornography'''

{{Anchor|7.0}}'''7.''' Any person who uses or causes to be used a child in the preparation to make or produce, or in the preparation to direct the making or production of, or in the making or production of, or in the directing of the making or production of, any child pornography commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding twenty years and shall also be punished with whipping of not less than five strokes.

{{Smaller|''Explanation''—This section does not apply where the preparation to make or produce or the preparation to direct the making or production of child pornography or where the making or production or the directing of the making or production of child pornography uses or causes to be used a person appearing to be a child.}}
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(''a'') ''A'' entices ''Z'', a child through a fake singing competition advertisement and uses ''Z'' in making child pornography. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by using a child in the making of child pornography. ''A'' is also guilty of an offence under section 5 by making child pornography.}}
:{{Smaller|(''b'') ''A'' offers his six-year-old daughter ''Z'', to ''B'' for ''Z'' to act in child pornography for a certain amount of money. ''Z'' acts in child pornography that ''B'' produces. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by causing ''Z'', a child to be used in the production of child pornography. ''B'' is guilty of an offence under this section by using ''Z'', a child, in the production of child pornography and under section 5 by producing child pornography.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hy6laouchnk38g1h5ljnxcffdf9q9ei</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133751</id>
      <parentid>15133747</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:27:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133751</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2206" sha1="ievyso5fwf0m2vib2dsmnpjpdmoysrk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|7=8|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 747'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''Making preparation to make, produce or direct the making or production of child pornography'''

{{Anchor|6.0}}'''6.''' Any person who makes any preparation to make, produce or direct the making or production of any child pornography commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years and shall also be liable to whipping.

'''Using a child in making, producing, directing the making or production of, etc., child pornography'''

{{Anchor|7.0}}'''7.''' Any person who uses or causes to be used a child in the preparation to make or produce, or in the preparation to direct the making or production of, or in the making or production of, or in the directing of the making or production of, any child pornography commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding twenty years and shall also be punished with whipping of not less than five strokes.

{{Smaller|''Explanation''—This section does not apply where the preparation to make or produce or the preparation to direct the making or production of child pornography or where the making or production or the directing of the making or production of child pornography uses or causes to be used a person appearing to be a child.}}
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(''a'') ''A'' entices ''Z'', a child through a fake singing competition advertisement and uses ''Z'' in making child pornography. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by using a child in the making of child pornography. ''A'' is also guilty of an offence under section 5 by making child pornography.}}
:{{Smaller|(''b'') ''A'' offers his six-year-old daughter ''Z'', to ''B'' for ''Z'' to act in child pornography for a certain amount of money. ''Z'' acts in child pornography that ''B'' produces. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by causing ''Z'', a child to be used in the production of child pornography. ''B'' is guilty of an offence under this section by using ''Z'', a child, in the production of child pornography and under section 5 by producing child pornography.}}
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:27:55Z</timestamp>
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        <id>2256060</id>
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      <text bytes="2204" sha1="rzdr82kbkt3b1znpfgdsrcq2hx40qoy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|8|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 792'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''Making preparation to make, produce or direct the making or production of child pornography'''

{{Anchor|6.0}}'''6.''' Any person who makes any preparation to make, produce or direct the making or production of any child pornography commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years and shall also be liable to whipping.

'''Using a child in making, producing, directing the making or production of, etc., child pornography'''

{{Anchor|7.0}}'''7.''' Any person who uses or causes to be used a child in the preparation to make or produce, or in the preparation to direct the making or production of, or in the making or production of, or in the directing of the making or production of, any child pornography commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding twenty years and shall also be punished with whipping of not less than five strokes.

{{Smaller|''Explanation''—This section does not apply where the preparation to make or produce or the preparation to direct the making or production of child pornography or where the making or production or the directing of the making or production of child pornography uses or causes to be used a person appearing to be a child.}}
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(''a'') ''A'' entices ''Z'', a child through a fake singing competition advertisement and uses ''Z'' in making child pornography. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by using a child in the making of child pornography. ''A'' is also guilty of an offence under section 5 by making child pornography.}}
:{{Smaller|(''b'') ''A'' offers his six-year-old daughter ''Z'', to ''B'' for ''Z'' to act in child pornography for a certain amount of money. ''Z'' acts in child pornography that ''B'' produces. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by causing ''Z'', a child to be used in the production of child pornography. ''B'' is guilty of an offence under this section by using ''Z'', a child, in the production of child pornography and under section 5 by producing child pornography.}}
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/9</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847924</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133743</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:23:02Z</timestamp>
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        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ 9</comment>
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      <text bytes="2075" sha1="8622w3zc0hrur5y9jv37hpzbso7kezc" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh||''Sexual Offences against Children''|7}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''Exchanging, publishing, etc., child pornography'''

{{Anchor|8.0}}'''8.''' Any person who—
:{{Anchor|8.a}}(''a'') exchanges, publishes, prints, reproduces, sells, lets for hire, distributes, exhibits, advertises, transmits, promotes, imports, exports, conveys, offers or makes available, in any manner, any child pornography;
:{{Anchor|8.b}}(''b'') obtains, collects or seeks any child pornography; or
:{{Anchor|8.c}}(''c'') participates in or receives profits from any business that he knows or has reason to believe is related to any child pornography,
commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding fifteen years and shall also be punished with whipping of not less than three strokes.
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(a) ''A'' is an administrator of a website showing child pornography. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by making available child pornography online.}}
:{{Smaller|(b) ''A'' carries on a logistic services business and manages the transportation and storage of publication material owned by ''Z''’s company. ''Z''’s publication material includes child pornography. ''Z'' reveals such information to ''A'' and makes profit sharing plan with ''A'' in relation to the sale of the child pornography with a condition that ''A'' continues to perform the logistic services for ''Z''. ''A'' accepts ''Z''’s offer. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by receiving profits from a business that he knows or has reason to believe is related to child pornography.}}

'''Selling, etc., child pornography to a child'''

{{Anchor|9.0}}'''9.''' Any person who sells, lets for hire, distributes, exhibits, advertises, transmits, promotes, conveys, offers or makes available, in any manner, any child pornography to a child commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding fifteen years and shall also be punished with whipping of not less than five strokes.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133748</id>
      <parentid>15133743</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:25:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133748</origin>
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      <text bytes="2075" sha1="5pzjl5lz1bq9szcxzidgixrnscqteti" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh||''Sexual Offences against Children''|9}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''Exchanging, publishing, etc., child pornography'''

{{Anchor|8.0}}'''8.''' Any person who—
:{{Anchor|8.a}}(''a'') exchanges, publishes, prints, reproduces, sells, lets for hire, distributes, exhibits, advertises, transmits, promotes, imports, exports, conveys, offers or makes available, in any manner, any child pornography;
:{{Anchor|8.b}}(''b'') obtains, collects or seeks any child pornography; or
:{{Anchor|8.c}}(''c'') participates in or receives profits from any business that he knows or has reason to believe is related to any child pornography,
commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding fifteen years and shall also be punished with whipping of not less than three strokes.
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(a) ''A'' is an administrator of a website showing child pornography. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by making available child pornography online.}}
:{{Smaller|(b) ''A'' carries on a logistic services business and manages the transportation and storage of publication material owned by ''Z''’s company. ''Z''’s publication material includes child pornography. ''Z'' reveals such information to ''A'' and makes profit sharing plan with ''A'' in relation to the sale of the child pornography with a condition that ''A'' continues to perform the logistic services for ''Z''. ''A'' accepts ''Z''’s offer. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section by receiving profits from a business that he knows or has reason to believe is related to child pornography.}}

'''Selling, etc., child pornography to a child'''

{{Anchor|9.0}}'''9.''' Any person who sells, lets for hire, distributes, exhibits, advertises, transmits, promotes, conveys, offers or makes available, in any manner, any child pornography to a child commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding fifteen years and shall also be punished with whipping of not less than five strokes.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/60</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847925</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133744</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:23:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133744</origin>
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      <text bytes="699" sha1="mkqis7tps3emgo8boyo88ae8negnm1d" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
while the machine amuses us, the radio or film or gramophone.

Monkeys with a bland grin on our faces.—
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|WORK|
There is no point in work
unless it absorbs you
like an absorbing game.

If it doesn't absorb you
if it's never any fun,
don't do it.

When a man goes out into his work
he is alive like a tree in spring
he is living, not merely working.

When the Hindus weave thin wool into long, long lengths of stuff
with their thin dark hands and their wide dark eyes and their still souls absorbed
they are like slender trees putting forth leaves, a long white web of living leaf,
the tissue they weave,
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|40}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/61</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847926</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133746</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:24:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133746</origin>
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start=follow|
and they clothe themselves in white as a tree clothes itself in its own foliage.

As with cloth, so with houses, ships, shoes, wagons or cups or loaves
men might put them forth as a snail its shell, as a bird that leans
its breast against its nest, to make it round,
as the turnip models his round root, as the bush makes flowers and gooseberries,
putting them forth, not manufacturing them,
and cities might be as once they were, bowers grown out from the busy bodies of people.
And so it will be again, men will smash the machines.

At last, for the sake of clothing himself in his own leaf-like cloth
tissued from his life,
and dwelling in his own bowery house, like a beaver's nibbled mansion
and drinking from cups that came off his fingers like flowers off their five-fold stem,
he will cancel the machines we have got.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|41}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Imperial Dictionary of Universal Biography/Falconer, Hugh</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4847927</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133749</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:27:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
        <id>2855804</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{header  | title      = [[../]]  | author     =   | contributor = Edwin Lankester  | translator =   | section    = Falconer, Hugh  | previous   = Falcone, Benedetto di  | next       = Falconer, Thomas  | year       = 1876  | portal     =   | notes      =  }}  &lt;pages index=&quot;Imperialdictiona02eadi Brandeis.pdf&quot; from=348 fromsection=&quot;348I&quot; to=349 tosection=&quot;348I&quot; /&gt;&quot;</comment>
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 | title      = [[../]]
 | author     = 
 | contributor = Edwin Lankester
 | translator = 
 | section    = Falconer, Hugh
 | previous   = Falcone, Benedetto di
 | next       = Falconer, Thomas
 | year       = 1876
 | portal     = 
 | notes      = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Imperialdictiona02eadi Brandeis.pdf&quot; from=348 fromsection=&quot;348I&quot; to=349 tosection=&quot;348I&quot; /&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133756</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:28:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Chrisguise</username>
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 | title      = [[../]]
 | author     = 
 | contributor = Edwin Lankester
 | translator = 
 | section    = Falconer, Hugh
 | previous   = Falcone, Benedetto di
 | next       = Falconer, Thomas
 | year       = 1876
 | portal     = 
 | notes      = 
}}

&lt;pages index=&quot;Imperialdictiona02eadi Brandeis.pdf&quot; from=348 fromsection=&quot;348I&quot; to=348 tosection=&quot;348I&quot; /&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/10</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847928</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133750</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:27:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="2067" sha1="fkxvd1y43kiiixwyf6n9gcmz2ss2e2v" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|10|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 747'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''Accessing, etc., child pornography'''

{{Anchor|10.0}}'''10.''' Any person who accesses, or has in his possession or control, any child pornography commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to a fine not exceeding ten thousand ringgit or to both.

{{Smaller|'''Explanation'''—A person is said to access child pornography if he knowingly causes child pornography to be viewed by, or transmitted to, himself.}}
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(''a'') ''A'' receives an e-mail from an unknown sender with an untitled attachment. ''A'' opens the attachment without knowing that the attachment contains child pornography. Upon viewing the content of the attachment, ''A'' immediately deletes the e-mail from his e-mail account. ''A'' is not guilty of an offence under this section.}}
:{{Smaller|(''b'') ''A'' receives an e-mail from an unknown sender with an untitled attachment. ''A'' opens the attachment without knowing that the attachment contains child pornography. Upon viewing the content of the attachment and despite knowing that the attachment contains child pornography, ''A'' continuously views the child pornography. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section.}}
:{{Smaller|(''c'') ''A'' uses ''B''’s computer and discovers a document containing child pornography stored in the computer’s hard disk. ''A'' transmits the said documents into his pen drive and keeps the pen drive in his office. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section.}}
{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part III&lt;br&gt;offences relating to child grooming}}}}}}
'''Sexually communicating with a child'''

{{Anchor|11.1}}'''11.''' (1) Subject to subsection (3), any person who—
:{{Anchor|11.1.a}}(''a'') sexually communicates with a child; or
:{{Anchor|11.1.b}}(''b'') encourages a child to sexually communicate,
by any means, commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>15133753</id>
      <parentid>15133750</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:27:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
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      <minor />
      <origin>15133753</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2067" sha1="gg899nhb8xtu4hok04yvusmoyihln73" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|10|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 792'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''Accessing, etc., child pornography'''

{{Anchor|10.0}}'''10.''' Any person who accesses, or has in his possession or control, any child pornography commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to a fine not exceeding ten thousand ringgit or to both.

{{Smaller|'''Explanation'''—A person is said to access child pornography if he knowingly causes child pornography to be viewed by, or transmitted to, himself.}}
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(''a'') ''A'' receives an e-mail from an unknown sender with an untitled attachment. ''A'' opens the attachment without knowing that the attachment contains child pornography. Upon viewing the content of the attachment, ''A'' immediately deletes the e-mail from his e-mail account. ''A'' is not guilty of an offence under this section.}}
:{{Smaller|(''b'') ''A'' receives an e-mail from an unknown sender with an untitled attachment. ''A'' opens the attachment without knowing that the attachment contains child pornography. Upon viewing the content of the attachment and despite knowing that the attachment contains child pornography, ''A'' continuously views the child pornography. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section.}}
:{{Smaller|(''c'') ''A'' uses ''B''’s computer and discovers a document containing child pornography stored in the computer’s hard disk. ''A'' transmits the said documents into his pen drive and keeps the pen drive in his office. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section.}}
{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part III&lt;br&gt;offences relating to child grooming}}}}}}
'''Sexually communicating with a child'''

{{Anchor|11.1}}'''11.''' (1) Subject to subsection (3), any person who—
:{{Anchor|11.1.a}}(''a'') sexually communicates with a child; or
:{{Anchor|11.1.b}}(''b'') encourages a child to sexually communicate,
by any means, commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/62</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847929</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133752</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:27:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133752</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="732" sha1="bvy3nh633hptqkbogykooi46gvbk9fb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|WHY{{ld}}|
Way have money?
why have a financial system to strangle us all in its octopus arms?
why have industry?
why have the industrial system?
why have machines, that we only have to serve?
why have a soviet, that only wants to screw us all in as parts of the machine?
why have working classes at all, as if men were only embodied jobs?
why not have men as men, and the work as merely part of the game of life?

True, we've got all these things
industrial and financial systems, machines and soviets, working classes.
But why go on having them, if they belittle us?
Why should we be belittled any longer?
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|WHAT IS HE?|
What is he?
—A man, of course.
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|42}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/63</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847930</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133757</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:28:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133757</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="761" sha1="8fmpytadfo6w6b968qg2qfshkv0sglp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
Yes, but what does he do?
—He lives and is a man.
Oh quite! But he must work. He must have a job of some sort.
—Why?
Because obviously he's not one of the leisured classes.
—I don't know. He has lots of leisure. And he makes quite beautiful chairs.—
There you are then! He's a cabinet maker.
—No no!
Anyhow a carpenter and joiner.
—Not at all.
But you said so.
—What did I say?
That he made chairs, and was a joiner and carpenter.
—I said he made chairs, but I did not say he was a carpenter.
All right then, he's just an amateur.
—Perhaps! Would you say a thrush was a professional flautist, or just an amateur?—
I'd say it was just a bird.
—And I say he is just a man.
All right! You always did quibble.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|43}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/11</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847931</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133758</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:29:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ 11</comment>
      <origin>15133758</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2266" sha1="0p9v1gpgyqc2lpi62uufhxcfplv028w" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh||''Sexual Offences against Children''|9}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Anchor|11.2}}(2) For the purposes of this section, a person is said to sexually communicate if—
:{{Anchor|11.2.a}}(''a'') the communication or any part of the communication relates to an activity that is sexual in nature; or
:{{Anchor|11.2.b}}(''b'') any reasonable person would consider any part of the communication to be sexual.

{{Anchor|11.3}}(3) No person shall be convicted of an offence under this section if the communication is for education, scientific or medical purposes.

'''Child grooming'''

{{Anchor|12.1}}'''12.''' (1) Any person who communicates by any means with a child with the intention to commit or to facilitate the commission of any offence under section 5, 6, 7, 8, 14 or 15 or any offence specified in the Schedule against the child commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years and shall also be liable to whipping.

{{Anchor|12.3}}(2) In any proceedings under this section, the fact that any offence under section 5, 6, 7, 8, 14 or 15 or any offence specified in the Schedule has been committed need not be specified or proven.
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(''a'') ''A'' communicates with ''Z'', a child via social media by pretending to be a teenager and develops a love relationship with ''Z'' with the intention of using ''Z'' in the making of child pornography. ''A'' never meets ''Z''. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section.}}
:{{Smaller|(''b'') ''A'' communicates with ''Z'', a child via e-mail and befriends ''Z'' with the intention that ''A''’s friends ''C'' and ''B'' could rape ''Z''. ''A'' never meets ''Z''. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section.}}

'''Meeting following child grooming'''

{{Anchor|13.1}}'''13.''' (1) Any person who, having communicated by any means with a child, travels to meet with the child or meets with the child with the intention to commit or to facilitate the commission of any offence under section 5, 6, 7, 8, 14 or 15 or any offence specified in the Schedule against the child commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years and shall also be liable to whipping.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133760</id>
      <parentid>15133758</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:30:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133760</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2267" sha1="7evgumo74g10abtuo9t1sb4nmhzccxy" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh||''Sexual Offences against Children''|11}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Anchor|11.2}}(2) For the purposes of this section, a person is said to sexually communicate if—
:{{Anchor|11.2.a}}(''a'') the communication or any part of the communication relates to an activity that is sexual in nature; or
:{{Anchor|11.2.b}}(''b'') any reasonable person would consider any part of the communication to be sexual.

{{Anchor|11.3}}(3) No person shall be convicted of an offence under this section if the communication is for education, scientific or medical purposes.

'''Child grooming'''

{{Anchor|12.1}}'''12.''' (1) Any person who communicates by any means with a child with the intention to commit or to facilitate the commission of any offence under section 5, 6, 7, 8, 14 or 15 or any offence specified in the Schedule against the child commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years and shall also be liable to whipping.

{{Anchor|12.3}}(2) In any proceedings under this section, the fact that any offence under section 5, 6, 7, 8, 14 or 15 or any offence specified in the Schedule has been committed need not be specified or proven.
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(''a'') ''A'' communicates with ''Z'', a child via social media by pretending to be a teenager and develops a love relationship with ''Z'' with the intention of using ''Z'' in the making of child pornography. ''A'' never meets ''Z''. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section.}}
:{{Smaller|(''b'') ''A'' communicates with ''Z'', a child via e-mail and befriends ''Z'' with the intention that ''A''’s friends ''C'' and ''B'' could rape ''Z''. ''A'' never meets ''Z''. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section.}}

'''Meeting following child grooming'''

{{Anchor|13.1}}'''13.''' (1) Any person who, having communicated by any means with a child, travels to meet with the child or meets with the child with the intention to commit or to facilitate the commission of any offence under section 5, 6, 7, 8, 14 or 15 or any offence specified in the Schedule against the child commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years and shall also be liable to whipping.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/12</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847932</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133761</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:32:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ 112</comment>
      <origin>15133761</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2114" sha1="lqgys9zcyjiee03nm19ofk39mjde3cr" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|12|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 792'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Anchor|13.2}}(2) In any proceedings under this section, the fact that any offence under section 5, 6, 7, 8, 14 or 15 or any offence specified in the Schedule has been committed need not be specified or proven.
{{Center|{{Smaller|''ILLUSTRATIONS''}}}}
:{{Smaller|(''a'') ''A'' communicates with ''Z'', a child via social media by pretending to be a teenager and develops a love relationship with ''Z''. ''A'' takes a step further and meets ''Z'' with the intention of using ''Z'' in the making of child pornography. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section.}}
:{{Smaller|(''b'') ''A'' communicates with ''Z'', a child via e-mail and befriends ''Z''. ''A'' takes a step further and meets ''Z'' with the intention that ''A''’s friends ''C'' and ''B'' could rape ''Z''. ''A'' is guilty of an offence under this section.}}
{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part IV&lt;br&gt;offences relating to sexual assault}}}}}}
'''Physical sexual assault on a child'''

{{Anchor|14.0}}'''14.''' Any person who, for sexual purposes—
:{{Anchor|14.a}}(''a'') touches any part of the body of a child;
:{{Anchor|14.b}}(''b'') makes a child touch any part of the body of such person or of any other person;
:{{Anchor|14.c}}(''c'') makes a child touch any part of the child’s own body; or
:{{Anchor|14.d}}(''d'') does any other acts that involve physical contact with a child without sexual intercourse,
commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding twenty years and shall also be liable to whipping.

{{Smaller|''Explanation 1''—The act of touching may involve the act of touching with any part of the body or with an object and may be done through anything including anything worn by the person touching or by the child touched.}}

{{Smaller|''Explanation 2''—In determining what constitutes sexual purposes, the court may take into consideration, among others, the part of the body that is touched, the nature and extent of the act of touching or the physical contact and all other circumstances surrounding the conduct.}}
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lqgys9zcyjiee03nm19ofk39mjde3cr</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/13</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847933</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133766</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:41:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ 13</comment>
      <origin>15133766</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1901" sha1="67khryh98dic6f81at3uy540zgap7ly" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh||''Sexual Offences against Children''|13}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''Non-physical sexual assault on a child'''

{{Anchor|15.0}}'''15.''' Any person who—
:{{Anchor|15.a}}(''a'') for sexual purposes—
::{{Anchor|15.a.i}}(i) utters any word or makes any sound, or makes any gesture or exhibits any object or his body or any part of his body with the intention that such word or sound shall be heard, or such gesture or object or body or part of his body shall be seen by a child;
::{{Anchor|15.a.ii}}(ii) makes a child exhibit the child’s body or any part of the child’s body so as it is seen by such person or any other person; or
::{{Anchor|15.a.iii}}(iii) repeatedly or constantly follows or watches or contacts a child by any means;
:{{Anchor|15.b}}(''b'') threatens to use any representation in whole or in part, whether visual, audio or written or the combination of visual, audio or written, by any means including but not limited to electronic, mechanical, digital, optical or magnetic means, or manually crafted, or the combination of any means, of a body of a child or any part of a body of a child or of a child engaged in an activity that is sexual in nature;
:{{Anchor|15.c}}(''c'') engages in an activity that is sexual in nature in the presence of a child;
:{{Anchor|15.d}}(''d'') causes a child to watch such person or any other person engaging in an activity that is sexual in nature;
:{{Anchor|15.e}}(''e'') causes a child to watch or hear any representation in whole or in part, whether visual, audio or written or the combination of visual, audio or written, by any means including but not limited to electronic, mechanical, digital, optical or magnetic means, or manually crafted, or the combination of any means, of such person or any other person engaged in an activity which is sexual in nature; or
:{{Anchor|15.f}}(''f'') makes a child engage in an activity that is sexual in nature,
{{nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>67khryh98dic6f81at3uy540zgap7ly</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/14</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847934</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133767</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:42:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ 14</comment>
      <origin>15133767</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2043" sha1="p358o5c1br64yx5gfvz4ya3d9uxed43" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|12|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 792'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years or to a fine not exceeding twenty thousand ringgit or to both.

{{Smaller|''Explanation''—In determining what constitutes sexual purposes, the court may take into consideration, among others, the words uttered, the nature and extent of the gestures and all other circumstances surrounding the conduct.}}
{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part V&lt;br&gt;person in a relationship of trust}}}}}}
'''Person in a relationship of trust'''

{{Anchor|16.1}}'''16.''' (1) If a person who commits any offence under this Act or any offence specified in the Schedule against a child, is in a relationship of trust with the child, such person shall, in addition to the punishment to which he is liable for such offence, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years and shall also be punished with whipping of not less than two strokes.

{{Anchor|16.2}}(2) In this section, a person is said to be in a relationship of trust with a child if the child is under his care, supervision or authority, including but not limited to—
:{{Anchor|16.2.a}}(''a'') a parent, guardian or person who is related through full- blood or half-blood, or through marriage or adoption, including ''de facto'' adoption;
:{{Anchor|16.2.b}}(''b'') a person who looks after one or more children for valuable consideration for any period of time;
:{{Anchor|16.2.c}}(''c'') a teacher, lecturer or warden of a kindergarten, school, public institution of higher learning or private institution of higher learning;
:{{Anchor|16.2.d}}(''d'') any person providing healthcare services in a Government healthcare facility or private healthcare facility as defined in section 2 of the Private Healthcare Facilities and Services Act 1998 [''Act 586''];
:{{Anchor|16.2.e}}(''e'') a coach; and
:{{Anchor|16.2.f}}(''f'') a public servant of whatever rank in the course of his duty under any written law in respect of the child.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>p358o5c1br64yx5gfvz4ya3d9uxed43</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133769</id>
      <parentid>15133767</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:44:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133769</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2043" sha1="s9bvdpi36dur9bvf6dd0sej15i7bc6u" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|14|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 792'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years or to a fine not exceeding twenty thousand ringgit or to both.

{{Smaller|''Explanation''—In determining what constitutes sexual purposes, the court may take into consideration, among others, the words uttered, the nature and extent of the gestures and all other circumstances surrounding the conduct.}}
{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part V&lt;br&gt;person in a relationship of trust}}}}}}
'''Person in a relationship of trust'''

{{Anchor|16.1}}'''16.''' (1) If a person who commits any offence under this Act or any offence specified in the Schedule against a child, is in a relationship of trust with the child, such person shall, in addition to the punishment to which he is liable for such offence, be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years and shall also be punished with whipping of not less than two strokes.

{{Anchor|16.2}}(2) In this section, a person is said to be in a relationship of trust with a child if the child is under his care, supervision or authority, including but not limited to—
:{{Anchor|16.2.a}}(''a'') a parent, guardian or person who is related through full- blood or half-blood, or through marriage or adoption, including ''de facto'' adoption;
:{{Anchor|16.2.b}}(''b'') a person who looks after one or more children for valuable consideration for any period of time;
:{{Anchor|16.2.c}}(''c'') a teacher, lecturer or warden of a kindergarten, school, public institution of higher learning or private institution of higher learning;
:{{Anchor|16.2.d}}(''d'') any person providing healthcare services in a Government healthcare facility or private healthcare facility as defined in section 2 of the Private Healthcare Facilities and Services Act 1998 [''Act 586''];
:{{Anchor|16.2.e}}(''e'') a coach; and
:{{Anchor|16.2.f}}(''f'') a public servant of whatever rank in the course of his duty under any written law in respect of the child.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>s9bvdpi36dur9bvf6dd0sej15i7bc6u</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/15</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847935</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133768</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:44:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ 15</comment>
      <origin>15133768</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1919" sha1="3fu1sy4rqxbbzo7lwitmb0nz6xqm6et" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh||''Sexual Offences against Children''|15}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part VI&lt;br&gt;capacity and evidence of child witness}}}}}}
'''Presumption as to capacity of a child witness'''

{{Anchor|17.0}}'''17.''' Notwithstanding anything contrary in any other written law, in any proceedings against any person relating to any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child, a child is presumed to be competent to give evidence unless the court thinks otherwise.

'''Evidence of child witness'''

{{Anchor|18.0}}'''18.''' Notwithstanding anything contrary in any other written law, in any proceedings against any person relating to any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child, the court may convict such person of such offence on the basis of the uncorroborated evidence of a child, given upon oath or otherwise.
{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part VII&lt;br&gt;miscellaneous}}}}}}
'''Failure to give information'''

{{Anchor|19.0}}'''19.''' Notwithstanding section 13 of the Criminal Procedure Code [Act 593], any person who fails to give information of the commission of or the intention of any other person to commit any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child, to the officer in charge of the nearest police station, commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be liable to a fine not exceeding five thousand ringgit.

'''Presumption of age of a child'''

{{Anchor|20.0}}'''20.''' It is not a defence to a charge for any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child, that an accused believed that the age of the child is or more than that as specified in the respective provisions of such offences at the time the offence is alleged to have been committed unless the accused took all reasonable steps to ascertain the age of the child.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3fu1sy4rqxbbzo7lwitmb0nz6xqm6et</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133770</id>
      <parentid>15133768</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:44:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <origin>15133770</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1923" sha1="akphmd21q3infwl4sgncza44ch8ayux" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh||''Sexual Offences against Children''|15}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part VI&lt;br&gt;capacity and evidence of child witness}}}}}}
'''Presumption as to capacity of a child witness'''

{{Anchor|17.0}}'''17.''' Notwithstanding anything contrary in any other written law, in any proceedings against any person relating to any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child, a child is presumed to be competent to give evidence unless the court thinks otherwise.

'''Evidence of child witness'''

{{Anchor|18.0}}'''18.''' Notwithstanding anything contrary in any other written law, in any proceedings against any person relating to any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child, the court may convict such person of such offence on the basis of the uncorroborated evidence of a child, given upon oath or otherwise.
{{Center|{{Big|{{Sc|Part VII&lt;br&gt;miscellaneous}}}}}}
'''Failure to give information'''

{{Anchor|19.0}}'''19.''' Notwithstanding section 13 of the Criminal Procedure Code [''Act 593''], any person who fails to give information of the commission of or the intention of any other person to commit any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child, to the officer in charge of the nearest police station, commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be liable to a fine not exceeding five thousand ringgit.

'''Presumption of age of a child'''

{{Anchor|20.0}}'''20.''' It is not a defence to a charge for any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child, that an accused believed that the age of the child is or more than that as specified in the respective provisions of such offences at the time the offence is alleged to have been committed unless the accused took all reasonable steps to ascertain the age of the child.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>akphmd21q3infwl4sgncza44ch8ayux</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Sexual Offences against Children Act 2017.pdf/16</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847936</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133771</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:46:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>廣九直通車</username>
        <id>2256060</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */ 16</comment>
      <origin>15133771</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2275" sha1="dgjzbhpqk0wm65iylbox0v4r60b7x69" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;廣九直通車&quot; /&gt;{{Rh|16|''Laws of Malaysia''|{{Sc|'''Act 792'''}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;'''Abetment'''

{{Anchor|21.0}}'''21.''' Any person who abets the commission of any offence punishable under this Act shall, if the act abetted is committed in consequence of the abetment, be punished with the punishment provided for the offence.

'''Evidence of ''agent provocateur'' admissible'''

{{Anchor|22.1}}'''22.''' (1) Notwithstanding any law or rule of law to the contrary, in any proceedings against any person relating to any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child, no ''agent provocateur'' shall be presumed to be unworthy of credit by reason only of his having attempted to commit or to abet, or having abetted or having been engaged in a criminal conspiracy to commit, such offence if the main purpose of such attempt, abetment or engagement was to secure evidence against such person.

{{Anchor|22.2}}(2) Notwithstanding any law or rule of law to the contrary, a conviction of any offence under this Act, or of any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child, solely on the uncorroborated evidence of any ''agent provocateur'' shall not be illegal and no such conviction shall be set aside merely because the court which tried the case has failed to refer in the grounds of its judgment to the need to warn itself against the danger of convicting on such evidence.

'''Offence by body corporate'''

{{Anchor|23.1}}'''23.''' If any offence under this Act, or any offence specified in the Schedule where the victim is a child has been committed by a body corporate, any person who at the time of the commission of the offence was a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or was purporting to act in any such capacity, or was in any manner responsible for the management of any of the affairs of such body corporate, or was assisting in such management, shall also be guilty of that offence unless he proves that the offence was committed without his knowledge, consent or connivance, and that he had exercised all due diligence to prevent the commission of the offence as he ought to have exercised, having regard to the nature of his functions in that capacity and to all the circumstances.
{{Nop}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>dgjzbhpqk0wm65iylbox0v4r60b7x69</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/64</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847937</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133772</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:48:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133772</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="750" sha1="e5iy0rvdl3m3y7zmq03umxejgp33dtg" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|O START A REVOLUTION—|
O! start a revolution, somebody!
not to get the money
but to lose it all for ever.
O! start a revolution, somebody!
not to instal the working classes
but to abolish the working classes for ever
and have a world of men.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|MOON MEMORY|
When the moon falls on a man's blood
white and slippery, as on the black water in a port
shaking asunder, and flicking at his ribs—

then the noisy, dirty day-world
exists no more, nor ever truly existed;
but instead
this wet white gleam
twitches, and ebbs hitting, washing inwardly, silverily against his ribs
on his soul that is dark ocean within him.

And under the flicking of the white whip-lash of the moon
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|44}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/65</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847938</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133773</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:49:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133773</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="831" sha1="tb0goydrvsasrfataitm989ezy520ec" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
sea-beasts immersed lean sideways and flash bright
in pure brilliance of anger, sea-immersed anger
at the trashy, motor-driven transit of dirty day
that has left scum on the sea, even in the night.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|THERE IS RAIN IN ME{{ld}}|
There is rain in me
running down, running down, trickling
away from memory.

There is ocean in me
swaying, swaying, O so deep
so fathomlessly black
and spurting suddenly up, snow-white, like snow-leopards rearing
high and clawing with rage at the cliffs of the soul
then disappearing back with a hiss
of eternal salt rage; angry is old ocean within a man.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;c&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|DESIRE GOES DOWN INTO THE SEA{{ld}}|
I have no desire any more
towards woman or man, bird, beast or creature or thing.
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|45}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/66</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847939</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133774</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:50:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133774</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="622" sha1="7ks3wpsaivo5kh8oijm8x7wv5u4y5zv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=follow|
All day long I feel the tide rocking, rocking
though it strikes no shore
in me.

Only mid-ocean.—
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|THE SEA, THE SEA{{ld}}|
The sea dissolves so much
and the moon makes away with so much more than we know—

Once the moon comes down
and the sea gets hold of us
cities dissolve like rock-salt
and the sugar melts out of life
iron washes away like an old blood-stain
gold goes out into a green shadow
money makes even no sediment
and only the heart
glitters in salty triumph
over all it has known, that has gone now into salty nothingness.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|46}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/67</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847940</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133775</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:50:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133775</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="695" sha1="6dskkq43sx7q3r7a4x2st2780ucjk3s" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|NOVEMBER BY THE SEA{{ld}}|
Now in November nearer comes the sun
down the abandoned heaven.

As the dark closes round him, he draws nearer
as if for our company.

At the base of the lower brain
the sun in me declines to his winter solstice
and darts a few gold rays
back to the old year's sun across the sea.

A few gold rays thickening down to red
as the sun of my soul is setting
setting fierce and undaunted, wintry
but setting, setting behind the sounding sea between my ribs.

The wide sea wins, and the dark,
winter, and the great day-sun, and the sun in my soul
sinks, sinks to setting and the winter solstice
downward, they race in decline
my sun, and the great gold sun.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|47}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/68</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847941</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133776</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:51:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133776</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="666" sha1="i5yq7jkr5qj7s0giw9u3xt75tkzijnd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{tpp|OLD SONG|
THE day is ending, the night descending
the heart is frozen, the spirit dead;
but the moon is wending her way, attending
to other things that are left unsaid.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|GOOD HUSBANDS MAKE UNHAPPY WIVES{{ld}}|
Good husbands make unhappy wives
so do bad husbands, just as often;
but the unhappiness of a wife with a good husband
is much more devastating
than the unhappiness of a wife with a bad husband.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;c&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|FIGHT! O MY YOUNG MEN{{ld}}|
Fight! don't you feel you're fading
into slow death?
Fight then, poor duffers degrading
your very breath.
|end=follow
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|48}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/69</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847942</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133783</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:57:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133783</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="717" sha1="oddehb2lpwb28mt3hquxdyajixpxwg4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=stanza|
Open your half-dead eyes
you half-alive young,
look round and realise
the muck from which you've sprung.

The money-muck, you simple flowers
of your forefathers' muck-heap;
and the money-muck-worms, the extant powers
that have got you in keep.

Old money-worms, young money-worms
money-worm professors
spinning a glamour round money, and clergymen
lifting a bank-book to bless us!

In the odour of lucrative sanctity
stand they—and god, how they stink!
Rise then, my young men, rise at them!
Or if you can't rise, just think—

Think of the world that you're stifling in,
think what a world it might be!
Think of the rubbish you're trifling in
with enfeebled vitality!
|end=stanza
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|49}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Pansies (Lawrence).djvu/70</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847943</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133784</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:58:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133784</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="653" sha1="oz7hviy4iudqwpm7ohvj6vwrw9axznv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=stanza|
And then, if you amount to a hill o' beans
start in and bust it all;
money, hypocrisy, greed, machines
that have ground you so small.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|IT'S EITHER YOU FIGHT OR
YOU DIE{{ld}}||
It's either you fight or you die
young gents, you've got no option.
No good asking the reason why
it's either you fight or you die
die, die, lily-liveredly die
or fight and make the splinters fly
bust up the holy apple-pie
you've got no option.

Don't say you can't, start in and try;
give great hypocrisy the lie
and tackle the blowsy big blow-fly
of money; do it or die!
You've got no option.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|50}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>oz7hviy4iudqwpm7ohvj6vwrw9axznv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133785</id>
      <parentid>15133784</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T09:58:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Alien333</username>
        <id>3086116</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133785</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="652" sha1="i75u4o69hv1fz6fd18anxjirt8asuvv" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Alien333&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;{{ppoem|
start=stanza|
And then, if you amount to a hill o' beans
start in and bust it all;
money, hypocrisy, greed, machines
that have ground you so small.
}}
&lt;section end=&quot;a&quot;/&gt;

&lt;section begin=&quot;b&quot;/&gt;
{{tpp|IT'S EITHER YOU FIGHT OR
YOU DIE{{ld}}|
It's either you fight or you die
young gents, you've got no option.
No good asking the reason why
it's either you fight or you die
die, die, lily-liveredly die
or fight and make the splinters fly
bust up the holy apple-pie
you've got no option.

Don't say you can't, start in and try;
give great hypocrisy the lie
and tackle the blowsy big blow-fly
of money; do it or die!
You've got no option.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{c|50}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Statutes of the Realm (Alphabetical Index).pdf/9</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847944</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133788</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Technolalia</username>
        <id>179271</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Create page.</comment>
      <origin>15133788</origin>
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      <text bytes="4348" sha1="9jqej349s42j4cl05060cmp7bt8p1yh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Technolalia&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;ALPHABETICAL

INDEX

TO THE

STATUTES OF THE REALM,

FROM

MAGNA CARTA to the End of the Reign of QUEEN ANNE.

A.

abatement.

A d d it io n W
Appeal

a n t op,

abatem ent.
E x e c u t io n

Abatement for, i H en .V . c .5 .

F r a n c h is e s , W rits o f Assise, Abatement for Collusion, 9 H en .IV . c .5 .—

c .i . §3.

8 Hen. V I. c. 26.

A ssise , Abatement of. See S h e r i f f .
A t t a i n t , Abatement of, 11 Hen. V II. c. 21. § 6 .

See D e a t h

B ankrupt.
C ircuit

J ustices

of

in

of

H e i r , W rit of Error not abated to,by Death of Ancestor, 27 Eliz. c .9 . §4.
See D i s s e is o r .

B ankrupt.

E y r e , W rits abated during, Stat. West. 2.13 Edw.I.

P e a c e , Suits in Name of, Abatement by Death of, 27 Eliz.

of the

c. 13. § 2 .
C ognizan ce

of

V i l l e n a g e , Exception of, not to abate W rit, 37 Edw. III.

D eath

of

(■ De f e n d a n t ! Abatement in Attaint, n H e n .V II. c .2 1. §6.—
^ p LA!NT|FF j
Before final Judgment, 8 &amp; 9 W .III. c . i i .§ 7 -

D eath

of

J u dges ,

E dw .V I. c. 7. § 2.
K in g , Plea to Information, Abatement of, 4 W . &amp; M .

P e t t y J u r y , any of, 11 Hen. V II. c .2 1 . § 6.

eclaration

D

ilatory

iss eis or ,

V

ol.

X.

K ing.

of a

T

own ,

Abatement of Assise, Stat. W est. 2. 13 Edw .I.

M is t a k e s

of

C l e r k s , no Abatement by, 14 Edw.IIT. st. 1. c .6 .

N ew C o m m is s io n , Abatement of W rit, 11 H en.V I. c .6 .— 1 Edw .VI.

c. 7. § 2— 6.
N ew N a m e

of

D i g n i t y , Commissioners taking, 1 E d w .V I . c . 7 . § 2 — 6.

See D is s e is o r .

c.4 8 .
See W

r i t of

P a r t i t i o n , Suit for, Plea of Abatement in, 8 &amp; 9 W . I I I . c . 3 1 . § 3 .
P arty

dying.

See D e a t h

Party.

of

See D e a t h of P e t t y J u r y .
P l a i n t i f f , new Name of Dignity, taking, Abatement, 1 E dw .V I. c .7 .
P e t t y J u r y , any of, dying.

§2— 6.

C rown , how far Abatement by, 1 Ann. c. 2.

P l e a without Affidavit, Stat. W est. 2. 13 Edw. I. c. 48.—

4 &amp; 5 Ann. c .3 . § 11.
D e i r o f , Nonage of, Abatement, Stat. West. 1. 3 Edw. I. c.4 7.
D o w e r . See W r i t o f D ower .
E r r o r i n t h e E x c h e q u e r C h a m b e r , Abatement of, not caused by
Absence of Treasurer, &amp;c. 16 C ar.II. c. 2. § 1 .
E x c e pt io n o f N o n - t e n u r e of P a r c e l , Abatement of W rit, 25 Edw. III.
st. 5. c. 16.
E x ec u t io n o f P ossession to U s e , Abatement o f Action, 27 Hen. VIII.
c. 10. § 12.
D

he

c. 16.
Town, misnaming of, Abatement o f Assise, Stat. W est. 2. 13 Edw.I.

alleging Contract in wrong County, W rit abating, 6 R ic .lL

of th e

T

of

c.48.

N onage.

st. 1. c. 2.
D em ise

See D e a t h

N on -t e n u r e , Parcel of, not to abate the whole W rit, 25 Edw. III. st. 5.

R avish m ent.
D

ing.

Plaintiff taking, ib.

c. 18. § 6.

eath o f

K

he

i

Process, Abatement of, 1 Ann. st. 1. c. 2. § 5.
Suits, Abatement of, 1 Edw. V I. c. 7.
D e a t h o f P a r t y , 27 Eliz. c.9. § 4 .
Between Verdict and Judgment, 17 Car.II. c. 8.
Interlocutory Judgment, after, 8 &amp; 9 W .III. c. 11. § 6.
D

See D e a t h o f T h e K i n g .
Abatement o f W rit for, 34 Edw .I. st. 1.

J udges S ^ EATH
 0f, x Edw. V I. c. 7. § 2— 4.
P referment J
# *

M isn am ing

B a n k r u p t , no Abatement o f Execution, 1 Jac. I. c. 15. § 12.

of th e

enancy,

K n i g h t h o o d , 4 Hen. V I. c. 4.

of

D eath

J oint T

T

c. 17.
C o l l u s i o n . See F ra n ch is es .
C rown . See D e a t h of t h e K in g .
D eath

I n d ic tm e n ts , Abatement of, for W ant of Addition, 1 H en.V . c. 5.
I nform ation.

c. 10.
C lerk

S t a t u t e M e r c h a n t , Abatement by Discontinuance of

Process, 5 H en.IV. c. 12.

M u r d e r , Abatement in, Slat. Glo. 6 Edw. I. c.9 .— 3 Hen.VII.

of

under

Sec P a r t i t i o n .
See D e a t h o f T h e K in g .
P l e a of J o in t T e n a n c y , Stat. De Conj. Feoff. 34 Edw. I.
R a v is h m e n t o f W a r d . Sec W r i t of R a v i s h m e n t o f W a r d .
R o c h e s t e r B r i d g e , Death of Wardens of, Abatement of W rit, 9 Hen.V.
P lea

of

A batement.

P lea

to

I nform ation.

st. 1. c. 12.
S h eriff

n a m ed

D i s s e is o r

in

A ssise ,

by

C o llus io n , Abatement,

11 H en.VI. c.2.
Stiles

of the

U s u r p a t io n , Abatement of W rit for using, 12 Car. II.

c- 3 - § 3 *
A&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Statutes of the Realm (Alphabetical Index).pdf/380</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847945</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133789</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:19:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Technolalia</username>
        <id>179271</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Create page.</comment>
      <origin>15133789</origin>
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      <text bytes="1082" sha1="2p2xy9phh4qj47dwcbnchrl21518fyj" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Technolalia&quot; /&gt;( 372 )&lt;/noinclude&gt;York (province of).

(continued•)

Pard o n t o t h e K i n g ’ s S p i r i t u a l S u b j e c t s , in Consideration of a
Will,

Subsidy, 23 Hen.VIII. c. 19.
Perso n a lty d ispo sed of
4 W . &amp; M . c. 2. § 2.

by,

notwithstanding

gorfe 'Buildings {[Oater Com pany,
P r o pr ie t o r s in c o r p o r a t e d , 2 W . &amp; M . Sess. II. Vol. V I. p.250,

Custom,

jaorfe ipousc.

See pork («Titp of).

T he C r o w n , vested in, 21 Jac. I. c. 30.

giorfe (ftoton of).
J?ule flaeance.

R e - e d i f i e d , 32 Hen.VIII. c. 18.
T own C l e r k , 8 Eliz. V ol. IV . Parti. p . 4 «4 -

See

Scotland.

z.
Z ealan d .
F is h , buying in Zealand, to sell here, 33 Hen.VIII. c. 2. § 1 .
W o o lle n C l o t h s of E n g l a n d , being prohibited in Zealand, then no
Merchandize of the Dominions of the Duke of Burgundy to

LONDON:

come into England, on Pain of Forfeiture, 27 Hen.VI. c. i . continued,
28 Hen.VI. c. 1. See 4 Edw. IV . c. 5.

Printed by G E O R G E E YR E and A N D R E W ST R A H A N , Printers to the King’s most Excellent Majesty.

M D C C C X X IV .&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Harveian oration delivered at the Royal College of Physicians June 26, 1872 - being an analysis of Harvey's Exercises on Generation (IA b2231295x).pdf/20</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847946</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133792</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:29:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rajasekhar1961</username>
        <id>172574</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;series of observation, conducted by many fellow-labourers, or rather by many labourers working in the same direction, the knowledge which we now possess has been gradually and slowly acquired, and contrast this with the comparative ignorance —it might almost be said the absolute darkness— which prevailed in Harvey’s day, we may well contemplate with admiration the courage and energy of the man who, in the face of such difficulties, could assign to himsel...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1154" sha1="iqatn4po40hkxv9ppwusvmy79wbqehq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Rajasekhar1961&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;series of observation, conducted by many fellow-labourers, or rather by many labourers working in
the same direction, the knowledge which we now
possess has been gradually and slowly acquired,
and contrast this with the comparative ignorance
—it might almost be said the absolute darkness—
which prevailed in Harvey’s day, we may well
contemplate with admiration the courage and
energy of the man who, in the face of such
difficulties, could assign to himself the task of
composing a systematic work on the subject of
generation.

Nor must we forget that the microscope, infinitely the most important instrument of research
now possessed by physiologists, was at this period
practically unknown. We do, indeed, find indications of some simple inventions with which
Magnifying power must have been associated,
though they may not, perhaps, have been used
for optical purposes, at a very early date indeed ;

and possibly of this nature were those burning

glasses to which Aristophanes, in his comedy of

The Clouds, makes reference (h). Moreover, lenses,

Such as are now used by engravers, are said to
hhaye been found in the ruins of Herculaneum.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:30:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rajasekhar1961</username>
        <id>172574</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133793</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1150" sha1="93v729iy6nuql2zw1z7ao1q8arclv0p" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Rajasekhar1961&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;series of observation, conducted by many fellow-labourers, or rather by many labourers working in
the same direction, the knowledge which we now
possess has been gradually and slowly acquired,
and contrast this with the comparative ignorance
—it might almost be said the absolute darkness—
which prevailed in Harvey’s day, we may well
contemplate with admiration the courage and
energy of the man who, in the face of such
difficulties, could assign to himself the task of
composing a systematic work on the subject of
generation.

Nor must we forget that the microscope, infinitely the most important instrument of research
now possessed by physiologists, was at this period
practically unknown. We do, indeed, find indications of some simple inventions with which
Magnifying power must have been associated,
though they may not, perhaps, have been used
for optical purposes, at a very early date indeed ;
and possibly of this nature were those burning
glasses to which Aristophanes, in his comedy of
The Clouds, makes reference (h). Moreover, lenses,
Such as are now used by engravers, are said to
hhaye been found in the ruins of Herculaneum.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Harveian oration delivered at the Royal College of Physicians June 26, 1872 - being an analysis of Harvey's Exercises on Generation (IA b2231295x).pdf/21</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847947</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133794</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:31:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rajasekhar1961</username>
        <id>172574</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;And even Harvey himself had some knowledge of magnifying or burning glasses; for, in speaking of different modes of producing fire, he says, ‘ Nor even is a spark necessary, since by the solar rays transmitted through a small piece of glass, and concentrated to a focus, fire may be immediately produced, and the largest things be set on flames.’ But down to a period ten years later than Harvey’s death, when the discovery of the sper- matozoa was first ann...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1159" sha1="rncslj4bqn95cco6dghrkh49nhzdz8s" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Rajasekhar1961&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;And even Harvey himself had some knowledge of
magnifying or burning glasses; for, in speaking
of different modes of producing fire, he says, ‘ Nor
even is a spark necessary, since by the solar rays
transmitted through a small piece of glass, and
concentrated to a focus, fire may be immediately
produced, and the largest things be set on flames.’
But down to a period ten years later than
Harvey’s death, when the discovery of the sper-
matozoa was first announced by Leeuwenloek,
the microscope was so little mown, and, even
when known at all, existed in such an imperfect
form, that Leeuwenhoek found it necessary to
construct with his own hands not only the lenses,
but even the framework of the very primitive in-
struments with which he conducted his observa-
tious (2).

One other point may also be noticed with reference to Harvey’s original design. H's observatons were not limited to the vertebrate series,
from which he had selected the two typical examples just named, but they were also extended
io the invertebrates. This we may gather from
several passages occurring in his work, but more
particularly from the statement which he made to&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf/130</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847948</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133795</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:32:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133795</origin>
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      <text bytes="3656" sha1="gi7ls1f8c8ax8zym3k00tvhn35t0onp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|113|&lt;!--placeholder--&gt;|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Since satellite technology was still in the experimental stage, the main goal for ATS 4 and 5 (AC-17 and -18) was to investigate how to maintain satellite stability while in orbit.&lt;ref&gt;Daniel R. Glover, “NASA Experimental Communications Satellites, 1958–1995,” in ''Beyond the Ionosphere: Fifty Years of Satellite Communication'' (Washington, DC: NASA, 1997), 56–60.&lt;/ref&gt; Both launches were disappointing. In August 1968, Centaur separated from the Atlas and coasted successfully for just over an hour, but its engines failed to restart. A year later, Centaur successfully placed the satellite into transfer orbit after a 25-minute coast, then developed an unplanned-for spin that compromised its communications experiments.&lt;ref&gt;Roy K. Hackbarth, “Atlas-Centaur AC-18 Performance Evaluation,” NASA TM X-2383, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office, NASA GRC Records.&lt;/ref&gt; Because of its poor performance, Centaur was abandoned for the final ATS launch in 1974 in favor of the Titan IIIC vehicle.

After this inauspicious beginning, the Centaur launch of a revolutionary, very heavy Orbiting Astronomical Observatory (OAO), managed by Goddard Space Flight Center, was more successful.&lt;ref&gt;“AC-16 Centaur Flight Evaluation Report,” Glenn Research Center, DEB Archives, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office. See also Mike Reynolds, “The Orbiting Astronomical Observatories,” in ''USA in Space'', eds. Frank N. Magill and Russell R. Tobias (Pasadena, CA: Salem Press, Inc., 1996), 471; and Homer Newell, Beyond the Atmosphere, 145.&lt;/ref&gt; The great weight of OAO was an unavoidable attribute because it required extremely sophisticated optical instrumentation. Considerable weight was also taken up by basic equipment such as power supplies, temperature control, and tracking and telemetering equipment. The first OAO, launched by Atlas-Agena D in 1966, had failed.&lt;ref&gt;“The Orbiting Astronomical Observatory,” ''Sky and Telescope'' (December 1962): 339–340.&lt;/ref&gt;

OAO-2, launched in December 1968, weighed 4,450 pounds.&lt;ref&gt;“Atlas/Centuar-16 Orbiting Astronomical Observatory-2 Final Field Report,” 17 October 1969, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office, NASA GRC Records.&lt;/ref&gt; Its main objective was to make unprecedented, precise telescopic observations 480 miles above Earth, where the atmosphere produced fewer optical distortions. Because the payload was too large for the Atlas-Centaur nose fairing, engineers used the Atlas-Agena fairing and connected the OAO to the front of Centaur with the Agena adapter.&lt;ref&gt;“AC-16 Centaur Flight Evaluation Report,” Glenn Research Center, DEB Archives, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office. See also G. R. Richards and Joel W. Powell, “The Centaur Vehicle,” ''British Interplanetary Society'' 42 (1 March 1989): 108.&lt;/ref&gt; Four days after a flawless Atlas-Centaur launch, the OAO onboard experiments immediately began showing the presence of star fields, returning thousands of unique images and mapping the northern skies.&lt;ref&gt;Arthur Code quotation found in “OAO-B Launch,” General Release, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office, NASA GRC Records. Arthur D. Code, ed., ''The Scientific Results from the Orbiting Astronomical Observatory'' (Washington, DC: NASA SP-310, 1972).&lt;/ref&gt;

An even heavier and more complex scientific satellite, OAO-3, was launched in November 1970 but never reached orbit. When the Centaur computer attempted to jettison the nose fairing around&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gi7ls1f8c8ax8zym3k00tvhn35t0onp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133798</id>
      <parentid>15133795</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:35:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="3655" sha1="egncsanumtcyjgai6o8rhbi4hchx8hs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Matrix&quot; /&gt;{{rvh|113|{{sc|Heavy Lift}}|{{sc|Taming Liquid Hydrogen}}}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;Since satellite technology was still in the experimental stage, the main goal for ATS 4 and 5 (AC-17 and -18) was to investigate how to maintain satellite stability while in orbit.&lt;ref&gt;Daniel R. Glover, “NASA Experimental Communications Satellites, 1958–1995,” in ''Beyond the Ionosphere: Fifty Years of Satellite Communication'' (Washington, DC: NASA, 1997), 56–60.&lt;/ref&gt; Both launches were disappointing. In August 1968, Centaur separated from the Atlas and coasted successfully for just over an hour, but its engines failed to restart. A year later, Centaur successfully placed the satellite into transfer orbit after a 25-minute coast, then developed an unplanned-for spin that compromised its communications experiments.&lt;ref&gt;Roy K. Hackbarth, “Atlas-Centaur AC-18 Performance Evaluation,” NASA TM X-2383, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office, NASA GRC Records.&lt;/ref&gt; Because of its poor performance, Centaur was abandoned for the final ATS launch in 1974 in favor of the Titan IIIC vehicle.

After this inauspicious beginning, the Centaur launch of a revolutionary, very heavy Orbiting Astronomical Observatory (OAO), managed by Goddard Space Flight Center, was more successful.&lt;ref&gt;“AC-16 Centaur Flight Evaluation Report,” Glenn Research Center, DEB Archives, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office. See also Mike Reynolds, “The Orbiting Astronomical Observatories,” in ''USA in Space'', eds. Frank N. Magill and Russell R. Tobias (Pasadena, CA: Salem Press, Inc., 1996), 471; and Homer Newell, Beyond the Atmosphere, 145.&lt;/ref&gt; The great weight of OAO was an unavoidable attribute because it required extremely sophisticated optical instrumentation. Considerable weight was also taken up by basic equipment such as power supplies, temperature control, and tracking and telemetering equipment. The first OAO, launched by Atlas-Agena D in 1966, had failed.&lt;ref&gt;“The Orbiting Astronomical Observatory,” ''Sky and Telescope'' (December 1962): 339–340.&lt;/ref&gt;

OAO-2, launched in December 1968, weighed 4,450 pounds.&lt;ref&gt;“Atlas/Centuar-16 Orbiting Astronomical Observatory-2 Final Field Report,” 17 October 1969, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office, NASA GRC Records.&lt;/ref&gt; Its main objective was to make unprecedented, precise telescopic observations 480 miles above Earth, where the atmosphere produced fewer optical distortions. Because the payload was too large for the Atlas-Centaur nose fairing, engineers used the Atlas-Agena fairing and connected the OAO to the front of Centaur with the Agena adapter.&lt;ref&gt;“AC-16 Centaur Flight Evaluation Report,” Glenn Research Center, DEB Archives, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office. See also G. R. Richards and Joel W. Powell, “The Centaur Vehicle,” ''British Interplanetary Society'' 42 (1 March 1989): 108.&lt;/ref&gt; Four days after a flawless Atlas-Centaur launch, the OAO onboard experiments immediately began showing the presence of star fields, returning thousands of unique images and mapping the northern skies.&lt;ref&gt;Arthur Code quotation found in “OAO-B Launch,” General Release, Box AC-15 to AC-24, Division Atlas/Centaur Project Office, NASA GRC Records. Arthur D. Code, ed., ''The Scientific Results from the Orbiting Astronomical Observatory'' (Washington, DC: NASA SP-310, 1972).&lt;/ref&gt;

An even heavier and more complex scientific satellite, OAO-3, was launched in November 1970 but never reached orbit. When the Centaur computer attempted to jettison the nose fairing around&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Harveian oration delivered at the Royal College of Physicians June 26, 1872 - being an analysis of Harvey's Exercises on Generation (IA b2231295x).pdf/22</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847949</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133796</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:33:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rajasekhar1961</username>
        <id>172574</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;13  Ent as one ground of objection against parting with his papers—namely, that they must be held to be imperfect, as not containing his investigatious on the gencration of Insects—a class which is second to none in the whole range of the animal Iingdom for the information which it affords in the study of this process. Harvey appears to have bestowed much care upon these, and his distress at the loss of them was correspondingly great. As Aubrey describes...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1211" sha1="8xw1ho8vu1hvyinukvhwptfzm9svg3o" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Rajasekhar1961&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;13

Ent as one ground of objection against parting
with his papers—namely, that they must be held
to be imperfect, as not containing his investigatious on the gencration of Insects—a class which
is second to none in the whole range of the animal
Iingdom for the information which it affords in
the study of this process. Harvey appears to
have bestowed much care upon these, and his distress at the loss of them was correspondingly great.
As Aubrey describes it, ‘they contained many
curious observations; but these, together with his
goods at his lodgings at Whitehall, were plundered
at the beginning of the Rebellion; and he often
said that, of all the losses he sustained, no griefe
was so crucifying to him as the losse of these
papers, which for love or money he could never
retrieve or obtain’ (/).

From this brief reference to the general scope -
and purpose of Harvey’s work on generation, I
pass on to notice more particularly some of its
leading features, and to compare them with the
established facts and doctrines of the present
time; and, if any apology he needed for the tracing
out of these in a certain historical order, I trust it
will be found in the fact that many of our present&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Harveian oration delivered at the Royal College of Physicians June 26, 1872 - being an analysis of Harvey's Exercises on Generation (IA b2231295x).pdf/23</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847950</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133797</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:34:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rajasekhar1961</username>
        <id>172574</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;views can be shown to have thetr representatives in the doctrines of a past age; and that what we occasionally regard as discoveries have been anticipated, in thought at least, by many of our pre- decessors.  And, by way of introduction, I will proceed to consider what were Harvey’s views in regard to the commencement of animal life. The dictum, ‘Omne animal ex ovo,’ or, as often quoted, ‘Omne yivum eX ovo,’ is commonly ascribed to Harvey ; but, if any o...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1188" sha1="6vx4dj569zu8vqrcawz6dxw3okjddha" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Rajasekhar1961&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;views can be shown to have thetr representatives
in the doctrines of a past age; and that what we
occasionally regard as discoveries have been anticipated, in thought at least, by many of our pre-
decessors.

And, by way of introduction, I will proceed to
consider what were Harvey’s views in regard to
the commencement of animal life. The dictum,
‘Omne animal ex ovo,’ or, as often quoted, ‘Omne
yivum eX ovo,’ is commonly ascribed to Harvey ;
but, if any one desire to find in the Exercises this
phrase, in the aphoristic shape here quoted, he
will, L think, be disappointed (). There can be no
question that the expression ‘Ommne vivum ex ovo’
serves to represent in general terms the particular
doctrine which it was a main purpose of Harvey
to teach. It cannot, however, be said to be his
exclusive doctrine, since he frequently uses certain
qualifying phrases. Nor is it quite clear that he
is averse from admitting the possibility of so-called
spontaneous generation; as, for example, in the
twenty-eighth exercise, where he says that “some
animals arise spontaneously, or, as is commonly
said, by putrefaction.’

But, not to dwell here upon this last subject, to&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Taming Liquid Hydrogen The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket.pdf/131</title>
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        <username>Matrix</username>
        <id>3055649</id>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;{{missing image}}&lt;!-- likely copyrighted, need to check --&gt; {{sm|''Atlas-Centaur parking orbit mission delivering a spacecraft to synchronous apogee transfer. (Courtesy of Lockheed Martin. See Centaur: Mission Planners Guide, File 010216, NASA Historical Reference Collection.)''}}&quot;</comment>
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{{sm|''Atlas-Centaur parking orbit mission delivering a spacecraft to synchronous apogee transfer. (Courtesy of Lockheed Martin. See Centaur: Mission Planners Guide, File 010216, NASA Historical Reference Collection.)''}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{rule|align=left|8em}}{{smallrefs}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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{{sm|''Atlas-Centaur parking orbit mission delivering a spacecraft to synchronous apogee transfer. (Courtesy of Lockheed Martin. See Centaur: Mission Planners Guide, File 010216, NASA Historical Reference Collection.)''}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Photoplay (1929-08).pdf/48</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
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      <id>15133803</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:54:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Qq1122qq</username>
        <id>1889140</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
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      <text bytes="2748" sha1="ifw352ai820nxu26nyap8x4m07q24r9" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Gossip of All the Studios&quot; /&gt;{{c|{{xxx-larger|Gossip of All the Studios}}

{{x-larger|By Cal York}}
}}

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 48 - June Collyer and Mary Astor.png|center|400px]]
{{c|'''Not a trick photo of one girl, but an unusual camera study of two of the prettiest actresses at the Fox Studios. At the left is June Collyer, at the right Mary Astor. Both girls are five feet, five inches, and the same weight, 115 pounds. Mary is one year older than June'''}}

{{ppoem|
&lt;&gt;THE INFANT TALKIE 

My mamma is a camera, 
:My papa's name is mike—
No wonder no one ever knows 
:Just quite what I'll be like! 
}}


{{di|W}}HY did Ina Claire marry Jack Gilbert? 

Adela Rogers St. Johns is at great pains to tell, elsewhere in this issue, why John married the lady. And, as she is the leading comedienne of the American stage, admired and even adored by thousands, old Cal was interested to know why Miss Claire yessed the demon lover. 

I found out over a luncheon table in the Claire dressing room on the Pathe lot. 

Ina Claire married John Gilbert because she liked his laughter! 


{{di|A}}T any rate, it was the boyish spirit in him that made her give him a second look. Their second meeting was at a Hollywood party, and the uproarious good time Gilbert had over some silly little parlor game fascinated Ina. She, too, loves to ha-ha—her real name being Fagan and her real nature all the Gaelic gayety that goes with it. 

The more she saw of him the more she was attracted by his enormous vitality and good spirits. Astonished, in a week or two she was saying to herself, &quot;Where has this been all my life! I want this!&quot;

And, in a sun-baked little Nevada town, she got it! 

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 48 - Greta Garbo.png|center|200px]]
{{c|'''The girls go into long trousers. For the sea scenes of &quot;The Single Standard,&quot; Greta Garbo wore flannel trousers with a plain, tuck-in sweater and sea-going canvas shoes'''}}


{{di|W}}HATEVER happens to the mating of Gilbert and Claire, they understand each other thoroughly. 

Ina is a brilliant girl, with a keenkutter mind. She has the jump on this delightful playboy she married, and when they are together there is the flash of continual verbal sword-play. It is better than a show. 

At present Jack is the fascinated and adoring boy. He makes dental appointments for her, he pops in and out of her dressing room when he can get away from his own lot—he pointed out a cowlick on the back of her blonde bobbed head as though he were showing off the eighth wonder of the world. 

In self-centered, movie-minded Hollywood, Gilbert is the great I-Am, while Claire is just another stage star out to try pictures, and this galls &lt;section end=&quot;Gossip of All the Studios&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Photoplay (1929-08).pdf/49</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847953</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133805</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T10:58:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Qq1122qq</username>
        <id>1889140</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proofread */</comment>
      <origin>15133805</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2762" sha1="1s709nzlapes1i1vj3yw4q922p1cfzs" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Gossip of All the Studios&quot; /&gt;Ina no little, though she laughs it off. The queen of New York is not one to be a mere lady-in-waiting in Hollywood.

&quot;Tell Jack that I'm somebody in the theater!&quot; she commanded, and old Cal did.

&quot;Jack,&quot; said Cal, &quot;when you two get off at the Grand Central Station, you'll be just an actor carrying Ina Claire's bags!&quot;

And the infatuated Jack, Playboy of the Western World, even took that, and liked it! 


[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 49 - Camilla Horn.png|center|350px]]
{{c|'''The newest pupil at Public School No. 17 in New York. Not to be talked out of American pictures by the talkies, Camilla Horn goes with her school books every evening to the English classes at the little red school house on West 48th Street. Her teacher is Mrs. M. J. Petersen'''}}


{{di|G}}ENE MARKEY was signed to write dialogue for Columbia Pictures and arrived in Hollywood just after the Jack Gilbert-Ina Claire wedding. It was understood that Markey had been engaged to Miss Claire, and the sob sisters took typewriter in hand to say in headlines that a broken-hearted writer had come on to air his grief before the film colony.

&quot;What do you think about all this publicity?&quot; asked Harry Cohn, head of Columbia, when he showed Markey the papers.

&quot;I think it's disgusting,&quot; said the writer.

&quot;Don't you care, don't you care,&quot; said Cohn. &quot;Don't every story mention Columbia Pictures?&quot;

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 49 - Leila Hyams.png|center|200px]]
{{c|'''Leila Hyams' pajama outfit is more elaborate. The suit is apple green and the sleeveless, tuck-in jumper has a printed yoke. The trousers, too, have a yoked top'''}}


{{di|A}}FTER a year's trial, Robert Bow, father of Clara, has closed his &quot;IT&quot; restaurant on Beverly Boulevard. For a while things were up and coming, with Clara dropping in frequently to dunk her doughnuts and tear a herring. When Clara stopped coming so did the rest of the trade. 

Bow ''père's'' café fell in hard lines right at the beginning of its career when the Paramount studio refused to permit the use of Clara Bow's name for advertising purposes. The loss reported to the flaming &quot;IT&quot; girl is reported as better than $10,000. 

Before entering the restaurant business, Father Bow operated a cleaning and dyeing business which his daughter purchased for him. 


{{di|B}}ETTY COMPSON and not Pauline Starke, as previously announced, will play the leading feminine rôle opposite Eric Von Stroheim in James Cruze's picture, &quot;The Great Gabbo.&quot;

News of the fact that Miss Compson was to appear in Cruze's production was received with marked interest in the film colony, due to the recent separation of the two, with a reconciliation following.
{{nop}}
&lt;section end=&quot;Gossip of All the Studios&quot; /&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Index:Executive Order 14304.pdf</title>
    <ns>106</ns>
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    <title>Index:Executive Order 14305.pdf</title>
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      <text bytes="5467" sha1="qw7vjw1anvyzl2da2z4tc54uovgzd4m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Gossip of All the Studios&quot; /&gt;It was explained in the daily newspapers that Miss Starke was unable to take the role on account of a slight injury sustained from a fall while riding horseback. A well-authenticated rumor, however, has it that she had difficulty in remembering her lines in the production, and that Von Stroheim's shirt front was plastered with her cues. Miss Starke has not made a screen appearance in several months. &quot;The Great Gabbo&quot; was to have marked her come-back. 


{{di|S}}OMEONE asked Al Jolson how many times he had sung &quot;Mammy.&quot; It didn't take Al, now on his third picture for Warner Brothers, long to figure an answer.

&quot;If all the Mammies I have sung about were stood in single file, beginning at the far end of California, the old South would be practically depopulated,&quot; he explained. 


[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 50 - Clara Bow.png|center|300px]]
{{c|'''Picture of one little clown who is not suffering from a broken heart. Under the grease-paint is Clara Bow, the Brooklyn bonfire, in circus makeup for her second talkie aptly―in fact inspiredly―titled &quot;Dangerous Curves&quot;'''}}


{{di|T}}HEY tell a story of rare self sacrifice in Hollywood. Ricardo Cortez was offered the name rôle in &quot;Trader Horn&quot; but refused it. It would have meant glory and money and a vivid come back for him. 

But it also meant being in Africa for eight months away from Alma Rubens when she needed him most. 


{{di|P}}RINCE FERDINAND of Prussia asked Anita Page to go with him to the opening of &quot;Show Boat.&quot; It threw the family into a state of hysteria. Mamma and Papa Pomares (Anita's parents) have never let their daughter appear in public without them. But a prince is a prince even in Hollywood. 

Anita was at last allowed to go, however, but the Pomares couldn't bear to sit at home, so they jumped into their car, dashed to the theater and were on hand to see that daughter was properly chaperoned on the way back. 


{{di|L}}EW CODY, who is, by the way, able to call on his friends and attend the Orpheum after his serious illness, says that now that so many Broadwayites are in Hollywood, even if you wanted to write a letter there's nobody to write to. 


{{di|T}}HE fortieth milestone does strange things to men and women. Charlie Chaplin has crossed that fateful line, and according to his friends all is not so well with the little clown. 

Nothing critical—simply that Chaplin, facing the downward slope, has become age-conscious. As you know, he has taken to touching up his gray hair with a more youthful hue, but that is a trifling symptom of the spiritual change. 

His friends say that he thinks and speaks a great deal, these days, of the chances and changes of old age, in a gently melancholy way. The old-time mad buffoon is on the way to extinction, leaving a much more serious little person touched by time. 

In short, our maddest wag has come to that time-conscious period through which all men and women must pass. And right now, with Chaplin, it is another case of leff, clown, leff. 


{{di|T}}E most radiant girl in Hollywood today is Lila Lee. 

Gone the slender, pale creature of the last few years. The new Lila is sturdy, tanned by the beach sun, vivid with health and the will to succeed. She is by all odds the most glittering young thing of the moment. 

To match this spiritual and physical health, Lila is happy. After a dull stretch, she is busy in the studios on various talking pictures. Moreover, she has an elegant boy friend in the handsome and brilliant person of John Farrow, one of the ace writers at Paramount. 

It would do your heart good to see Lila Lee glisten. For we all have a soft spot in our hearts for her, as one of the youngest of the real veterans who have literally grown up with the screen. 

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 50 - Florence Vidor.png|center|400px]]
{{c|'''A lovely lady retires from the screen. Florence Vidor sails for Europe with her husband, Jascha Heifetz, who will make his annual summer concert tour of the Continent. Miss Vidor tried one talkie and didn't like it. She asked for a release from her contract, so that she might be free to accompany her husband'''}}


{{di|F}}OR the first time in exactly seventeen years, Lon Chaney has been sick! 

By that token, for the first time Chaney has begged off posing for studio portraits and other things that take time and strength. Always the first star on the lot, he has struggled through his latest picture on his nerve, and now needs a rest. 

Chaney, in health, turns up at nine in the morning, ready for work, in a dingy suit and a knockabout golf cap. He is Lon to the lowliest call boy on the Metro-Goldwyn lot. At heart he is still the old vaudevillian—regular as they come, and everybody's pal and adviser. 

At Christmas time every gal on the lot, whatever her rank, gets a glove order from Chaney, delivered by his own hand. 

The other day I saw him on the lot. A mother and a little girl were waiting near the offices. Chaney, in dowdy suit and old cap, picked up the child and fondled her. That was Chaney, the $4,000 a week movie star whose public is everlasting. 


{{di|W}}E have been advised that Mrs. William Powell, wife of the Paramount star, is returning to the screen. At present she is appearing on the stage in &quot;Burlesque,&quot; under her maiden name, Eileen Wilson. For future picture work she will appear under her married name.
{{nop}}
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      <text bytes="4712" sha1="eoans4t0p8a2ff9ig01fnlhqv76txpm" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Gossip of All the Studios&quot; /&gt;{{di|W}}HEN Greta was in Catalina on location the citizens of Avalon were thrown into a state of constant panic. Local physicians report eight necks broken when sightseers tried to get a look at her. But Garbo appeared in the little village only once.

Dressed in her usual careless manner and with her hat pulled over her eyes, she walked into a curio store, bought a sea shell and, finding she had no money, had it sent to the hotel C.O.D., giving her maid's name. 

And the same curio dealer was among the crowd who tried to catch a glimpse of her when she hurried from her hotel to the location yacht. 


[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 51 - Bessie Love.png|center|400px]]
{{c|''' ''Little Eva'', all set to join in the angels' chorus. The girl in wings is Bessie Love, who plays a trouper in an &quot;Uncle Tom's Cabin&quot; company in &quot;Eva the Fifth.&quot; Don't write in to tell us that wrist watches weren't worn before the Civil War. The timepiece is used so that ''Little Eva'' can be sure of an 11:15 curtain'''}}

{{di|T}}HE naive curiosity of Ralph Forbes, who is playing an important role in &quot;The Green Goddess,&quot; with George Arliss, for Warner Brothers, led to this. Forbes was testing the rather extensive botanical knowledge of his friend and co-player in the picture, H. B. Warner, by bringing him small pieces of flora from about the company's location set near Chatsworth, Calif.

&quot;What's this?&quot; he asked Warner one morning, displaying a single, green leaf. 

&quot;That,&quot; said the obliging Mr. Warner, &quot;is poison ivy.&quot;


{{di|I}}T may be for solace or it may be for spite, but the fact remains that since Jack Gilbert and Ina Claire were married Greta Garbo and Nils Asther have been chummier than ever before.


{{ppoem|
Rockabye, Baby Star, 
:Up at the top; 
While the blurbs rave 
:You never can flop! 
When the blurbs stop 
:Your contract will fall, 
And down will come Baby Star, 
:Options and all!
}}


{{di|T}}HIS is the Recipe of the Month, so far as Cal is concerned. 

It is the Louise Fazenda cocktail—as smooth and persuasive a concoction as ever soothed a parched gullet. 

To serve six people—

One pint of pineapple ice, the juice of one-half grapefruit and two lemons. 

I hear, also, that it would be improved if that obsolete fluid known as &quot;gin&quot; were added, to taste. But this, of course, is quite impossible in a prohibition country. 

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 51 - Jean Arthur.png|center|300px]]
{{c|'''Looking ahead on the new Fall hats, Jean Arthur wears a small, helmet-shaped hat made of velvet. It is perfectly plain and worn slightly off the forehead. With it is worn a circular piece of tulle for a nose veil'''}}

{{di|H}}OW time does fly! Can you believe that little Bill Ince, son of the late Thomas Ince, is old enough to get married? Well, he is twenty now and very shortly will be married to Miss Ada Williams, a Kentucky girl who won a beauty contest in Florida and came West to win further fame in pictures. 

Miss Williams has appeared on the screen intermittently, but the best thing she has done for herself is to win the affections of &quot;Nell&quot; Ince's son. 

Mrs. Ince is one of the most beloved women of the film colony and Bill numbers his friends by the score. Besides, the young people will have no financial worries. 


{{di|D}}R. STEPIN FETCHIT, the eminent sepia comedian, is now the undisputed king of the colored colony of Los Angeles. 

Dr. Fetchit took Dr. Herb Howe, whose brilliant interview on the comic appeared in {{sc|Photoplay}}, to see the colored aristocracy, not long ago. Their gathering place is a big, noisy and joyous cafe named The Apex. 

At a table near Drs. Howe and Fetchit sat a particularly handsome girl of a yellow tint, and dressed to kill. 

Fetchit called her over, and Dr. Howe was presented to the belle of the high-toned set.

&quot;Very pretty girl,&quot; commented Herb. &quot;Who is she?&quot;

&quot;Mrs. Smith?&quot; drawled Stepin. &quot;Why, she's the wife of dat big p'liceman you saw outside the doah!&quot;


{{di|T}}IME was when Joan Crawford and Doug Fairbanks, Jr., were the most audibly devoted couple in Hollywood. They could be seen any noon at the M.-G.-M. commissary languishing over the soup and crooning sticky phrases. 

A daily witness of the procedure penned the following epitaph which Dorothy Herzog ran in her column: 

{{poem|
Here lie the bodies of Doug and Joan. 
They died as they lived—making sweet moan. 
}}


{{di|T}}HEN, alas, came the day when the vivacious Lupe brought her Gar-r-ee to the commissary. They occupied the table next to Doug and Joan and completely out-mooned the former billing and cooing champs. 
&lt;section end=&quot;Gossip of All the Studios&quot; /&gt;
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4713" sha1="k3yh3ij4hq1tp8c2waog23rjbaqxrfz" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;3&quot; user=&quot;Qq1122qq&quot; /&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;section begin=&quot;Gossip of All the Studios&quot; /&gt;{{di|W}}HEN Greta was in Catalina on location the citizens of Avalon were thrown into a state of constant panic. Local physicians report eight necks broken when sightseers tried to get a look at her. But Garbo appeared in the little village only once.

Dressed in her usual careless manner and with her hat pulled over her eyes, she walked into a curio store, bought a sea shell and, finding she had no money, had it sent to the hotel C.O.D., giving her maid's name. 

And the same curio dealer was among the crowd who tried to catch a glimpse of her when she hurried from her hotel to the location yacht. 


[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 51 - Bessie Love.png|center|400px]]
{{c|''' ''Little Eva'', all set to join in the angels' chorus. The girl in wings is Bessie Love, who plays a trouper in an &quot;Uncle Tom's Cabin&quot; company in &quot;Eva the Fifth.&quot; Don't write in to tell us that wrist watches weren't worn before the Civil War. The timepiece is used so that ''Little Eva'' can be sure of an 11:15 curtain'''}}

{{di|T}}HE naive curiosity of Ralph Forbes, who is playing an important role in &quot;The Green Goddess,&quot; with George Arliss, for Warner Brothers, led to this. Forbes was testing the rather extensive botanical knowledge of his friend and co-player in the picture, H. B. Warner, by bringing him small pieces of flora from about the company's location set near Chatsworth, Calif.

&quot;What's this?&quot; he asked Warner one morning, displaying a single, green leaf. 

&quot;That,&quot; said the obliging Mr. Warner, &quot;is poison ivy.&quot;


{{di|I}}T may be for solace or it may be for spite, but the fact remains that since Jack Gilbert and Ina Claire were married Greta Garbo and Nils Asther have been chummier than ever before.


{{ppoem|
Rockabye, Baby Star, 
:Up at the top; 
While the blurbs rave 
:You never can flop! 
When the blurbs stop 
:Your contract will fall, 
And down will come Baby Star, 
:Options and all!
}}


{{di|T}}HIS is the Recipe of the Month, so far as Cal is concerned. 

It is the Louise Fazenda cocktail—as smooth and persuasive a concoction as ever soothed a parched gullet. 

To serve six people—

One pint of pineapple ice, the juice of one-half grapefruit and two lemons. 

I hear, also, that it would be improved if that obsolete fluid known as &quot;gin&quot; were added, to taste. But this, of course, is quite impossible in a prohibition country. 

[[File:Photoplay - 1929.08 - 51 - Jean Arthur.png|center|300px]]
{{c|'''Looking ahead on the new Fall hats, Jean Arthur wears a small, helmet-shaped hat made of velvet. It is perfectly plain and worn slightly off the forehead. With it is worn a circular piece of tulle for a nose veil'''}}

{{di|H}}OW time does fly! Can you believe that little Bill Ince, son of the late Thomas Ince, is old enough to get married? Well, he is twenty now and very shortly will be married to Miss Ada Williams, a Kentucky girl who won a beauty contest in Florida and came West to win further fame in pictures. 

Miss Williams has appeared on the screen intermittently, but the best thing she has done for herself is to win the affections of &quot;Nell&quot; Ince's son. 

Mrs. Ince is one of the most beloved women of the film colony and Bill numbers his friends by the score. Besides, the young people will have no financial worries. 


{{di|D}}R. STEPIN FETCHIT, the eminent sepia comedian, is now the undisputed king of the colored colony of Los Angeles. 

Dr. Fetchit took Dr. Herb Howe, whose brilliant interview on the comic appeared in {{sc|Photoplay}}, to see the colored aristocracy, not long ago. Their gathering place is a big, noisy and joyous cafe named The Apex. 

At a table near Drs. Howe and Fetchit sat a particularly handsome girl of a yellow tint, and dressed to kill. 

Fetchit called her over, and Dr. Howe was presented to the belle of the high-toned set.

&quot;Very pretty girl,&quot; commented Herb. &quot;Who is she?&quot;

&quot;Mrs. Smith?&quot; drawled Stepin. &quot;Why, she's the wife of dat big p'liceman you saw outside the doah!&quot;


{{di|T}}IME was when Joan Crawford and Doug Fairbanks, Jr., were the most audibly devoted couple in Hollywood. They could be seen any noon at the M.-G.-M. commissary languishing over the soup and crooning sticky phrases. 

A daily witness of the procedure penned the following epitaph which Dorothy Herzog ran in her column: 

{{ppoem|
Here lie the bodies of Doug and Joan. 
They died as they lived—making sweet moan. 
}}


{{di|T}}HEN, alas, came the day when the vivacious Lupe brought her Gar-r-ee to the commissary. They occupied the table next to Doug and Joan and completely out-mooned the former billing and cooing champs. 
&lt;section end=&quot;Gossip of All the Studios&quot; /&gt;
{{c|[PLEASE TURN TO PAGE 88]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 9 (1708-13).pdf/5</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847961</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133823</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:19:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Technolalia</username>
        <id>179271</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Create page.</comment>
      <origin>15133823</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="420" sha1="iu1gc8z3o6jdam63v12dcexeh8xrl2v" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Technolalia&quot; /&gt;{{rh|{{larger|left}}|{{larger|{{sc|Statute.}}}}|{{larger|right}}}} {{rule|height = 2px}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;CONTENTS

of

THE NINTH VOLUME.

PREFACE.

CHRONOLOGICAL TABLE OF THE TITLES OF THE ACTS

PASSED IN THE RecN oF QuEEN ANNE, FROM THE SEVENTH TO THE THIRTEENTH YEARS,
BOTH INCLUSIVE.

Tue STATUTES OF THE SEVENTH TO THE THIRTEENTH YEARS OF THE
REIGN oF QUEEN ANNE.

InpEX OF PRINCIPAL MATTERS

in Tue Srarures conTarnepD 1x Volume IX.&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>iu1gc8z3o6jdam63v12dcexeh8xrl2v</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 9 (1708-13).pdf/13</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847962</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133825</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:21:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Technolalia</username>
        <id>179271</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Create page.</comment>
      <origin>15133825</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2714" sha1="7zygoeihprnzsvmd8mr93d6rjkse697" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Technolalia&quot; /&gt;( IX )&lt;/noinclude&gt;TITLE on DESCRIPTION or tue ACT.

An Act for vesting the Estate of Gideon Haydon Esquire deceased lying in the
County of Devon in Trustees to be for Payment of the where- xxj

for the better Peformance of the Will of Stephen Hervey Esquire
Geeiad end waking Proven fe hie Cider, }} ai | — | @ | -

rte a nt a eet xxiij. ak 4 =

An Act to enable William Howe of Somerton Early in the County of Somerset
Esquire to sell the Manor and Farm of Gunvile-Eastbury alias Tarrant-
Gunvile in the County of Dorset and several M es Lands Tenements ’
and Hereditaments in Gunvile Eastbury alias Tarrant Gunvile aforesaid and xxiv. - 57 147
other Lands and Hereditaments of greater Value to the sames Uses
the said Manor and Premisses in Gunvile Eastbury alias Tarrant-
now stand limited in lieu thereof.

An Act to enable John Ely Esquire to raise Monies out of his Estate to pay his
Debts and for settli the Residue thereof together with the Esato xxv. — 65 -
beth his Wife to the Uses intended by his Marriage Settlement.

wig Wetting (oivialy Rive datleand Tor riding of Fercoos ter Ws Grand. _ M

ing Graveney Esquire deceased i Portions for his Grand- - $s _-

chidren tecording t» bis’ Will a

An Act to make the Ships the Barclay Castle and James of Montross Free ‘ = sS
Ships. } xxvij, Jo

An Act for the Payment of the Debts of Sir John Bolles Baronet a Lunatick.

An Act to enable Thomas Bulkeley Gentleman to sell Part of the Estate com-
prized in his Settlement to pay off Debts which were precedent to xxix, | — 63 —
and do affect the said Settlement.

An Act for the Relief of the Non-Commission Officers and Soldiers of the

“phere of the Three Regiments of Colonel Thomas Handasyde

Colonel John ivesay and Lieutenant Erle and of the Four Inde-
pendent Companies at New York in America.

An Act for annexing the Rectory or Parsonage of Hasely in the County of
Cliek' 5 tha Diatoney of the Kings Free Chopal of Saint George within His

An Act to enable James Stopford Esquire to sell Lands in the County of Notting-
Lo teateseionat odomoattonece : }} xxx. =e

An Act for ing a Term for Five hundred Years created by Richard
Minshull his Trustees for securing the Payment of Eight thousand &gt;| xxxiij. | — 61 _
Pounds and Interest.

An Act to explain an Act made in the First Year of Her Majesties R
tf cige Edvard Whinkr Yo scoun or sch Same ot}

An Act to enable Anthony Stafford Gentleman to sell or some Part of
oe Nap arenes ee pt 2 ec ey wt ~ for the aes, = 67 2
Fathers Debts own better settling i
tha rest forthe Benefit of his Wife and Fanily oO
’ An Act for vesting the Equity of Redemption of the Manor of Backwell in the
Sete ms ised comvues so oe WOM of Carcions | — 69 -&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/288</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847963</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133829</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:25:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;&quot;One of us ought to ride into Fort Sumner now and reconnoitre,&quot; said Garrett. &quot;Nose around. Take a drink or two at old Beaver Smith's bar and talk with the fellows. Might learn something if there's anything to learn. But I can't go. Everybody knows me. I lived there two years.&quot; &quot;I can't either,&quot; spoke up McKinney. &quot;I've been here half-a-dozen times, and quite a few know me.&quot; &quot;Nobody knows me,&quot; said Poe. &quot;I'll go.&quot; &quot;If you don't pick up any information in...</comment>
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274
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;One of us ought to ride into Fort Sumner now and reconnoitre,&quot; said Garrett. &quot;Nose around. Take a drink or two at old Beaver Smith's bar and talk with the
fellows. Might learn something if there's anything to learn. But I can't go. Everybody knows me. I lived there two years.&quot;
&quot;I can't either,&quot; spoke up McKinney. &quot;I've been
here half-a-dozen times, and quite a few know me.&quot;
&quot;Nobody knows me,&quot; said Poe. &quot;I'll go.&quot;
&quot;If you don't pick up any information in Fort Sumner,&quot;
said Garrett, &quot;ride on to Charlie Rudolph's ranch seven
miles out on the Las Vegas road. Charlie's an old-timer
and a friend of mine and you can lay your cards on the
table with him. If the Kid's in the country, he'll tell
you. I'll give you a note to him.&quot;
you
Garrett tore a page out of his pocket notebook, scratched
off a few lines to Rudolph and gave the paper to Poe.
&quot;McKinney and I will wait here in the sandhills for
until dark,&quot; he added. &quot;If you don't come back, we'll
ride to the end of the double row of cottonwoods four miles
north of Fort Sumner near the little Mexican village of
Punta de la Glorietta and meet you there at nine o'clock.&quot;
It was ten o'clock in the morning of July 14th when
Poe rode into Fort Sumner and hitched his horse in front
of Beaver Smith's saloon. The grizzled old proprietor
stood in the door.
&quot;Warm day,&quot; observed Poe ingratiatingly.
&quot;Where you from?&quot; asked old Beaver, waiving formali-
ties.
&quot;White Oaks.&quot;
&quot;Live there?&quot;
&quot;Been doing a little mining. Not much luck. On the
way back to my home in Mobeetie.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>k5iqgfeigmvclk8kx1hg7b958t082mh</sha1>
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    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:26:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
      </contributor>
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      <text bytes="1615" sha1="4kxnwdw76wcdg4jqtl76ss1cwz5mhre" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|274|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|274}}
274
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;One of us ought to ride into Fort Sumner now and reconnoitre,&quot; said Garrett. &quot;Nose around. Take a drink or two at old Beaver Smith's bar and talk with the
fellows. Might learn something if there's anything to learn. But I can't go. Everybody knows me. I lived there two years.&quot;
&quot;I can't either,&quot; spoke up McKinney. &quot;I've been here half-a-dozen times, and quite a few know me.&quot; &quot;Nobody knows me,&quot; said Poe. &quot;I'll go.&quot;
&quot;If you don't pick up any information in Fort Sumner,&quot; said Garrett, &quot;ride on to Charlie Rudolph's ranch seven miles out on the Las Vegas road. Charlie's an old-timer and a friend of mine and you can lay your cards on the
table with him. If the Kid's in the country, he'll tell
you. I'll give you a note to him.&quot;
you
Garrett tore a page out of his pocket notebook, scratched
off a few lines to Rudolph and gave the paper to Poe.
&quot;McKinney and I will wait here in the sandhills for
until dark,&quot; he added. &quot;If you don't come back, we'll
ride to the end of the double row of cottonwoods four miles
north of Fort Sumner near the little Mexican village of
Punta de la Glorietta and meet you there at nine o'clock.&quot;
It was ten o'clock in the morning of July 14th when
Poe rode into Fort Sumner and hitched his horse in front
of Beaver Smith's saloon. The grizzled old proprietor
stood in the door.
&quot;Warm day,&quot; observed Poe ingratiatingly.
&quot;Where you from?&quot; asked old Beaver, waiving formali-
ties.
&quot;White Oaks.&quot;
&quot;Live there?&quot;
&quot;Been doing a little mining. Not much luck. On the
way back to my home in Mobeetie.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4kxnwdw76wcdg4jqtl76ss1cwz5mhre</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133831</id>
      <parentid>15133830</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:27:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133831</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="1615" sha1="bm3fdftohhumyltkh71ygl6eeu2jt40" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|274|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|274}}
274
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;One of us ought to ride into Fort Sumner now and reconnoitre,&quot; said Garrett. &quot;Nose around. Take a drink or two at old Beaver Smith's bar and talk with the
fellows. Might learn something if there's anything to learn. But I can't go. Everybody knows me. I lived there two years.&quot;
&quot;I can't either,&quot; spoke up McKinney. &quot;I've been here half-a-dozen times, and quite a few know me.&quot; &quot;Nobody knows me,&quot; said Poe. &quot;I'll go.&quot;
&quot;If you don't pick up any information in Fort Sumner,&quot; said Garrett, &quot;ride on to Charlie Rudolph's ranch seven miles out on the Las Vegas road. Charlie's an old-timer and a friend of mine and you can lay your cards on the table with him. If the Kid's in the country, he'll tell you. I'll give you a note to him.&quot; you
Garrett tore a page out of his pocket notebook, scratched off a few lines to Rudolph and gave the paper to Poe. &quot;McKinney and I will wait here in the sandhills for until dark,&quot; he added. &quot;If you don't come back, we'll ride to the end of the double row of cottonwoods four miles
north of Fort Sumner near the little Mexican village of
Punta de la Glorietta and meet you there at nine o'clock.&quot;
It was ten o'clock in the morning of July 14th when
Poe rode into Fort Sumner and hitched his horse in front
of Beaver Smith's saloon. The grizzled old proprietor
stood in the door.
&quot;Warm day,&quot; observed Poe ingratiatingly.
&quot;Where you from?&quot; asked old Beaver, waiving formali-
ties.
&quot;White Oaks.&quot;
&quot;Live there?&quot;
&quot;Been doing a little mining. Not much luck. On the
way back to my home in Mobeetie.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bm3fdftohhumyltkh71ygl6eeu2jt40</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133833</id>
      <parentid>15133831</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:28:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133833</origin>
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274
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;&quot;One of us ought to ride into Fort Sumner now and reconnoitre,&quot; said Garrett. &quot;Nose around. Take a drink or two at old Beaver Smith's bar and talk with the
fellows. Might learn something if there's anything to learn. But I can't go. Everybody knows me. I lived there two years.&quot;
&quot;I can't either,&quot; spoke up McKinney. &quot;I've been here half-a-dozen times, and quite a few know me.&quot; &quot;Nobody knows me,&quot; said Poe. &quot;I'll go.&quot;
&quot;If you don't pick up any information in Fort Sumner,&quot; said Garrett, &quot;ride on to Charlie Rudolph's ranch seven miles out on the Las Vegas road. Charlie's an old-timer and a friend of mine and you can lay your cards on the table with him. If the Kid's in the country, he'll tell you. I'll give you a note to him.&quot; you
Garrett tore a page out of his pocket notebook, scratched off a few lines to Rudolph and gave the paper to Poe. &quot;McKinney and I will wait here in the sandhills for until dark,&quot; he added. &quot;If you don't come back, we'll ride to the end of the double row of cottonwoods four miles north of Fort Sumner near the little Mexican village of Punta de la Glorietta and meet you there at nine o'clock.&quot;  It was ten o'clock in the morning of July 14th when Poe rode into Fort Sumner and hitched his horse in front of Beaver Smith's saloon. The grizzled old proprietor stood in the door.
&quot;Warm day,&quot; observed Poe ingratiatingly. &quot;Where you from?&quot; asked old Beaver, waiving formalities.
&quot;White Oaks.&quot;
&quot;Live there?&quot;
&quot;Been doing a little mining. Not much luck. On the way back to my home in Mobeetie.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>hua8g998kfbq3pmdrbnrwgtrws41tsa</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/290</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847964</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133835</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:30:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;friends of the Kid. Whatever they knew they were keeping to themselves. To save his visit from being a total loss, Poe went to a restaurant and ate a good meal. He had had no food except a pocket sandwich since leaving Roswell. Poe left Fort Sumner in the middle of the afternoon, starting eastward. A few miles out, he cut across country westward to the Las Vegas road on which Rudolph's ranch was located. He arrived at Rudolph's at sundown, presented Garr...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1750" sha1="thmoa5hgk0fjcjfscjod4snva0kguza" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|276|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|276}}
276
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;friends of the Kid. Whatever they knew they were keeping to themselves. To save his visit from being a total loss, Poe went to a restaurant and ate a good meal. He had had no food except a pocket sandwich since leaving
Roswell.
Poe left Fort Sumner in the middle of the afternoon,
starting eastward. A few miles out, he cut across country
westward to the Las Vegas road on which Rudolph's
ranch was located. He arrived at Rudolph's at sundown,
presented Garrett's note, and was cordially received.
After supper the two men sat on the porch in casual
conversation. Poe's first mention of Billy the Kid had a
marked effect upon his host. Rudolph fidgeted in his
chair and tried to change the subject.
&quot;I've heard,&quot; remarked Poe relentlessly, &quot;the Kid's
been in hiding in Fort Sumner ever since his escape.&quot;
&quot;No truth to that,&quot; snapped Rudolph with notable
perturbation. &quot;Such a report is silly. The Kid's too
shrewd to be caught lingering around here with a price
on his head and posses hunting him everywhere.&quot;
Poe played cautiously a little longer and then, following
Garrett's advice, laid his cards on the table.
&quot;Sheriff Garrett,&quot; he said, &quot;is waiting for me now near
Fort Sumner. We have reason to believe the Kid is there.
Garrett has sent me to you for definite information as to
the Kid's hiding place. I'd like the straight truth from
you.&quot;
&quot;I know nothing about the Kid,&quot; Rudolph protested,
his excitement changing to downright alarm. &quot;I can't
tell you a thing. If the Kid was around here and I told
you where he could be found, my life wouldn't be worth a
penny. But I don't believe he's around Fort Sumner.
You can set that report down as a lie.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>thmoa5hgk0fjcjfscjod4snva0kguza</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133836</id>
      <parentid>15133835</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:31:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>15133836</origin>
      <model>proofread-page</model>
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      <text bytes="1750" sha1="a4q2s840giibou7qgs497x5y1s1cr3g" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|276|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|276}}
276
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;friends of the Kid. Whatever they knew they were keeping to themselves. To save his visit from being a total loss, Poe went to a restaurant and ate a good meal. He had had no food except a pocket sandwich since leaving Roswell. Poe left Fort Sumner in the middle of the afternoon, starting eastward. A few miles out, he cut across country westward to the Las Vegas Road on which Rudolph's ranch was located. He arrived at Rudolph's at sundown, presented Garrett's note, and was cordially received.
After supper the two men sat on the porch in casual
conversation. Poe's first mention of Billy the Kid had a
marked effect upon his host. Rudolph fidgeted in his
chair and tried to change the subject.
&quot;I've heard,&quot; remarked Poe relentlessly, &quot;the Kid's
been in hiding in Fort Sumner ever since his escape.&quot;
&quot;No truth to that,&quot; snapped Rudolph with notable
perturbation. &quot;Such a report is silly. The Kid's too
shrewd to be caught lingering around here with a price
on his head and posses hunting him everywhere.&quot;
Poe played cautiously a little longer and then, following
Garrett's advice, laid his cards on the table.
&quot;Sheriff Garrett,&quot; he said, &quot;is waiting for me now near
Fort Sumner. We have reason to believe the Kid is there.
Garrett has sent me to you for definite information as to
the Kid's hiding place. I'd like the straight truth from
you.&quot;
&quot;I know nothing about the Kid,&quot; Rudolph protested,
his excitement changing to downright alarm. &quot;I can't
tell you a thing. If the Kid was around here and I told
you where he could be found, my life wouldn't be worth a
penny. But I don't believe he's around Fort Sumner.
You can set that report down as a lie.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>a4q2s840giibou7qgs497x5y1s1cr3g</sha1>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:32:20Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
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276
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;friends of the Kid. Whatever they knew they were keeping to themselves. To save his visit from being a total loss, Poe went to a restaurant and ate a good meal. He had had no food except a pocket sandwich since leaving Roswell. Poe left Fort Sumner in the middle of the afternoon, starting eastward. A few miles out, he cut across country westward to the Las Vegas Road on which Rudolph's ranch was located. He arrived at Rudolph's at sundown, presented Garrett's note, and was cordially received. After supper the two men sat on the porch in casual conversation. Poe's first mention of Billy the Kid had a marked effect upon his host. Rudolph fidgeted in his chair and tried to change the subject. &quot;I've heard,&quot; remarked Poe relentlessly, &quot;the Kid's been in hiding in Fort Sumner ever since his escape.&quot;
&quot;No truth to that,&quot; snapped Rudolph with notable perturbation. &quot;Such a report is silly. The Kid's too
shrewd to be caught lingering around here with a price
on his head and posses hunting him everywhere.&quot;
Poe played cautiously a little longer and then, following
Garrett's advice, laid his cards on the table.
&quot;Sheriff Garrett,&quot; he said, &quot;is waiting for me now near
Fort Sumner. We have reason to believe the Kid is there.
Garrett has sent me to you for definite information as to
the Kid's hiding place. I'd like the straight truth from
you.&quot;
&quot;I know nothing about the Kid,&quot; Rudolph protested,
his excitement changing to downright alarm. &quot;I can't
tell you a thing. If the Kid was around here and I told
you where he could be found, my life wouldn't be worth a
penny. But I don't believe he's around Fort Sumner.
You can set that report down as a lie.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6aaaw7yfqasmkj17bpcy82ugdlyu4yo</sha1>
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      <id>15133839</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:33:23Z</timestamp>
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276
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;friends of the Kid. Whatever they knew they were keeping to themselves. To save his visit from being a total loss, Poe went to a restaurant and ate a good meal. He had had no food except a pocket sandwich since leaving Roswell. Poe left Fort Sumner in the middle of the afternoon, starting eastward. A few miles out, he cut across country westward to the Las Vegas Road on which Rudolph's ranch was located. He arrived at Rudolph's at sundown, presented Garrett's note, and was cordially received. After supper the two men sat on the porch in casual conversation. Poe's first mention of Billy the Kid had a marked effect upon his host. Rudolph fidgeted in his chair and tried to change the subject. &quot;I've heard,&quot; remarked Poe relentlessly, &quot;the Kid's been in hiding in Fort Sumner ever since his escape.&quot;
&quot;No truth to that,&quot; snapped Rudolph with notable perturbation. &quot;Such a report is silly. The Kid's too shrewd to be caught lingering around here with a price on his head and posses hunting him everywhere.&quot; Poe played cautiously a little longer and then, following Garrett's advice, laid his cards on the table. &quot;Sheriff Garrett,&quot; he said, &quot;is waiting for me now near Fort Sumner. We have reason to believe the Kid is there.
Garrett has sent me to you for definite information as to
the Kid's hiding place. I'd like the straight truth from
you.&quot;
&quot;I know nothing about the Kid,&quot; Rudolph protested,
his excitement changing to downright alarm. &quot;I can't
tell you a thing. If the Kid was around here and I told
you where he could be found, my life wouldn't be worth a
penny. But I don't believe he's around Fort Sumner.
You can set that report down as a lie.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>haz8c4x53rcb90jztsk7fktkv1wn8oy</sha1>
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        <id>3176481</id>
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276
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;friends of the Kid. Whatever they knew they were keeping to themselves. To save his visit from being a total loss, Poe went to a restaurant and ate a good meal. He had had no food except a pocket sandwich since leaving Roswell. Poe left Fort Sumner in the middle of the afternoon, starting eastward. A few miles out, he cut across country westward to the Las Vegas Road on which Rudolph's ranch was located. He arrived at Rudolph's at sundown, presented Garrett's note, and was cordially received. After supper the two men sat on the porch in casual conversation. Poe's first mention of Billy the Kid had a marked effect upon his host. Rudolph fidgeted in his chair and tried to change the subject. &quot;I've heard,&quot; remarked Poe relentlessly, &quot;the Kid's been in hiding in Fort Sumner ever since his escape.&quot;
&quot;No truth to that,&quot; snapped Rudolph with notable perturbation. &quot;Such a report is silly. The Kid's too shrewd to be caught lingering around here with a price on his head and posses hunting him everywhere.&quot; Poe played cautiously a little longer and then, following Garrett's advice, laid his cards on the table. &quot;Sheriff Garrett,&quot; he said, &quot;is waiting for me now near Fort Sumner. We have reason to believe the Kid is there. Garrett has sent me to you for definite information as to the Kid's hiding place. I'd like the straight truth from you.&quot;
&quot;I know nothing about the Kid,&quot; Rudolph protested, his excitement changing to downright alarm. &quot;I can't tell you a thing. If the Kid was around here and I told
you where he could be found, my life wouldn't be worth a
penny. But I don't believe he's around Fort Sumner.
You can set that report down as a lie.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lu506b5j94ro20s2x2pq14zmmz1fxts</sha1>
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        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
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276
THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;friends of the Kid. Whatever they knew they were keeping to themselves. To save his visit from being a total loss, Poe went to a restaurant and ate a good meal. He had had no food except a pocket sandwich since leaving Roswell. Poe left Fort Sumner in the middle of the afternoon, starting eastward. A few miles out, he cut across country westward to the Las Vegas Road on which Rudolph's ranch was located. He arrived at Rudolph's at sundown, presented Garrett's note, and was cordially received. After supper the two men sat on the porch in casual conversation. Poe's first mention of Billy the Kid had a marked effect upon his host. Rudolph fidgeted in his chair and tried to change the subject. &quot;I've heard,&quot; remarked Poe relentlessly, &quot;the Kid's been in hiding in Fort Sumner ever since his escape.&quot;
&quot;No truth to that,&quot; snapped Rudolph with notable perturbation. &quot;Such a report is silly. The Kid's too shrewd to be caught lingering around here with a price on his head and posses hunting him everywhere.&quot; Poe played cautiously a little longer and then, following Garrett's advice, laid his cards on the table. &quot;Sheriff Garrett,&quot; he said, &quot;is waiting for me now near Fort Sumner. We have reason to believe the Kid is there. Garrett has sent me to you for definite information as to the Kid's hiding place. I'd like the straight truth from you.&quot;
&quot;I know nothing about the Kid,&quot; Rudolph protested, his excitement changing to downright alarm. &quot;I can't tell you a thing. If the Kid was around here and I told
you where he could be found, my life wouldn't be worth a penny. But I don't believe he's around Fort Sumner. You can set that report down as a lie.&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>igw1br3lpyh61tl108ydrnuoitbtzit</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/291</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847965</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133842</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:35:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;Poe joined Garrett and McKinney at nine o'clock that night at the appointed meeting place at the north end of the double row of cottonwoods and recounted his day's experiences. The suspicion he encountered in Fort Sumner and Rudolph's agitation convinced him, he said, that the Kid was somewhere in the Fort Sumner vicinage. Garrett was not so sanguine. &quot;But as long as we are here,&quot; Garrett said, &quot;we might as well try watching Charlie Bowdre's old home in...</comment>
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      <text bytes="1785" sha1="lqvm0jgl4mzwn939rrnyhn7206pynrp" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|277|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|277}}
THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
277&lt;/noinclude&gt;Poe joined Garrett and McKinney at nine o'clock that night at the appointed meeting place at the north end of the double row of cottonwoods and recounted his day's
experiences. The suspicion he encountered in Fort
Sumner and Rudolph's agitation convinced him, he said,
that the Kid was somewhere in the Fort Sumner vicinage.
Garrett was not so sanguine.
&quot;But as long as we are here,&quot; Garrett said, &quot;we might as
well try watching Charlie Bowdre's old home in Fort
Sumner. Manuela Bowdre, Charlie Bowdre's widow,
still lives there with her mother, and if the Kid's in these
parts, he's probably hiding there.&quot;
They set off from Fort Sumner through the four-mile
avenue of cottonwoods. A quarter of a mile from town,
they hid their horses in a grove of trees on the Pecos and
took a position in the old peach orchard at the north edge
of the village. Just across the road from their place of
concealment stood the old military hospital in which
Manuela Bowdre had her home. A full moon was in the
sky, making the landscape as bright as day, but the peach
trees were in full leaf, and in the deep shadows they were
safe from chance discovery. For two hours they remained
there silently watching the Bowdre door like three cats
at a mouse hole. But no sign of the Kid rewarded their
patience. It was hard on midnight when they decided
to abandon their vigil.
&quot;I had no faith in this trip in the first place,&quot; growled
Garrett. &quot;I'm willing to bet the Kid ain't in Fort Sumner
and never has been here since his escape.
We'll go back
to our horses now and start for Roswell. Best to put a
little distance between us and Fort Sumner before day-
break.&quot;
&quot;Let's go see Pete Maxwell before we give it up,&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lqvm0jgl4mzwn939rrnyhn7206pynrp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133844</id>
      <parentid>15133842</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:36:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
      </contributor>
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THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
277&lt;/noinclude&gt;Poe joined Garrett and McKinney at nine o'clock that night at the appointed meeting place at the north end of the double row of cottonwoods and recounted his day's experiences. The suspicion he encountered in Fort Sumner and Rudolph's agitation convinced him, he said, that the Kid was somewhere in the Fort Sumner vicinage. Garrett was not so sanguine. &quot;But as long as we are here,&quot; Garrett said, &quot;we might as well try watching Charlie Bowdre's old home in Fort
Sumner. Manuela Bowdre, Charlie Bowdre's widow,
still lives there with her mother, and if the Kid's in these
parts, he's probably hiding there.&quot;
They set off from Fort Sumner through the four-mile
avenue of cottonwoods. A quarter of a mile from town,
they hid their horses in a grove of trees on the Pecos and
took a position in the old peach orchard at the north edge
of the village. Just across the road from their place of
concealment stood the old military hospital in which
Manuela Bowdre had her home. A full moon was in the
sky, making the landscape as bright as day, but the peach
trees were in full leaf, and in the deep shadows they were
safe from chance discovery. For two hours they remained
there silently watching the Bowdre door like three cats
at a mouse hole. But no sign of the Kid rewarded their
patience. It was hard on midnight when they decided
to abandon their vigil.
&quot;I had no faith in this trip in the first place,&quot; growled
Garrett. &quot;I'm willing to bet the Kid ain't in Fort Sumner
and never has been here since his escape.
We'll go back
to our horses now and start for Roswell. Best to put a
little distance between us and Fort Sumner before day-
break.&quot;
&quot;Let's go see Pete Maxwell before we give it up,&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jwla3hcvuss9s4s33hlajyhxwyezw7s</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133846</id>
      <parentid>15133844</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:37:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
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THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
277&lt;/noinclude&gt;Poe joined Garrett and McKinney at nine o'clock that night at the appointed meeting place at the north end of the double row of cottonwoods and recounted his day's experiences. The suspicion he encountered in Fort Sumner and Rudolph's agitation convinced him, he said, that the Kid was somewhere in the Fort Sumner vicinage. Garrett was not so sanguine. &quot;But as long as we are here,&quot; Garrett said, &quot;we might as well try watching Charlie Bowdre's old home in Fort
Sumner. Manuela Bowdre, Charlie Bowdre's widow, still lives there with her mother, and if the Kid's in these parts, he's probably hiding there.&quot;
They set off from Fort Sumner through the four-mile avenue of cottonwoods. A quarter of a mile from town, they hid their horses in a grove of trees on the Pecos and
took a position in the old peach orchard at the north edge
of the village. Just across the road from their place of
concealment stood the old military hospital in which
Manuela Bowdre had her home. A full moon was in the
sky, making the landscape as bright as day, but the peach
trees were in full leaf, and in the deep shadows they were
safe from chance discovery. For two hours they remained
there silently watching the Bowdre door like three cats
at a mouse hole. But no sign of the Kid rewarded their
patience. It was hard on midnight when they decided
to abandon their vigil.
&quot;I had no faith in this trip in the first place,&quot; growled
Garrett. &quot;I'm willing to bet the Kid ain't in Fort Sumner
and never has been here since his escape.
We'll go back
to our horses now and start for Roswell. Best to put a
little distance between us and Fort Sumner before day-
break.&quot;
&quot;Let's go see Pete Maxwell before we give it up,&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qiiokqz4qcohv5hnk7pobng02ia6onm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>15133847</id>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:38:15Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
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THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
277&lt;/noinclude&gt;Poe joined Garrett and McKinney at nine o'clock that night at the appointed meeting place at the north end of the double row of cottonwoods and recounted his day's experiences. The suspicion he encountered in Fort Sumner and Rudolph's agitation convinced him, he said, that the Kid was somewhere in the Fort Sumner vicinage. Garrett was not so sanguine. &quot;But as long as we are here,&quot; Garrett said, &quot;we might as well try watching Charlie Bowdre's old home in Fort
Sumner. Manuela Bowdre, Charlie Bowdre's widow, still lives there with her mother, and if the Kid's in these parts, he's probably hiding there.&quot;
They set off from Fort Sumner through the four-mile avenue of cottonwoods. A quarter of a mile from town, they hid their horses in a grove of trees on the Pecos and took a position in the old peach orchard at the north edge of the village. Just across the road from their place of concealment stood the old military hospital in which Manuela Bowdre had her home. A full moon was in the sky, making the landscape as bright as day, but the peach trees were in full leaf, and in the deep shadows they were
safe from chance discovery. For two hours they remained
there silently watching the Bowdre door like three cats
at a mouse hole. But no sign of the Kid rewarded their
patience. It was hard on midnight when they decided
to abandon their vigil.
&quot;I had no faith in this trip in the first place,&quot; growled
Garrett. &quot;I'm willing to bet the Kid ain't in Fort Sumner
and never has been here since his escape.
We'll go back
to our horses now and start for Roswell. Best to put a
little distance between us and Fort Sumner before day-
break.&quot;
&quot;Let's go see Pete Maxwell before we give it up,&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8a4jfyc8q71n917l8iubugc5du3tl15</sha1>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:40:08Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
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THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
277&lt;/noinclude&gt;Poe joined Garrett and McKinney at nine o'clock that night at the appointed meeting place at the north end of the double row of cottonwoods and recounted his day's experiences. The suspicion he encountered in Fort Sumner and Rudolph's agitation convinced him, he said, that the Kid was somewhere in the Fort Sumner vicinage. Garrett was not so sanguine. &quot;But as long as we are here,&quot; Garrett said, &quot;we might as well try watching Charlie Bowdre's old home in Fort
Sumner. Manuela Bowdre, Charlie Bowdre's widow, still lives there with her mother, and if the Kid's in these parts, he's probably hiding there.&quot;
They set off from Fort Sumner through the four-mile avenue of cottonwoods. A quarter of a mile from town, they hid their horses in a grove of trees on the Pecos and took a position in the old peach orchard at the north edge of the village. Just across the road from their place of concealment stood the old military hospital in which Manuela Bowdre had her home. A full moon was in the sky, making the landscape as bright as day, but the peach trees were in full leaf, and in the deep shadows they were safe from chance discovery. For two hours they remained there silently watching the Bowdre door like three cats at a mouse hole. But no sign of the Kid rewarded their patience. It was hard on midnight when they decided to abandon their vigil. &quot;I had no faith in this trip in the first place,&quot; growled Garrett. &quot;I'm willing to bet the Kid ain't in Fort Sumner and never has been here since his escape. We'll go back to our horses now and start for Roswell. Best to put a
little distance between us and Fort Sumner before day-
break.&quot;
&quot;Let's go see Pete Maxwell before we give it up,&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6txs9sdu0ltt86fyw7hptuf36ktoh1n</sha1>
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        <id>3176481</id>
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THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
277&lt;/noinclude&gt;Poe joined Garrett and McKinney at nine o'clock that night at the appointed meeting place at the north end of the double row of cottonwoods and recounted his day's experiences. The suspicion he encountered in Fort Sumner and Rudolph's agitation convinced him, he said, that the Kid was somewhere in the Fort Sumner vicinage. Garrett was not so sanguine. &quot;But as long as we are here,&quot; Garrett said, &quot;we might as well try watching Charlie Bowdre's old home in Fort
Sumner. Manuela Bowdre, Charlie Bowdre's widow, still lives there with her mother, and if the Kid's in these parts, he's probably hiding there.&quot; They set off from Fort Sumner through the four-mile avenue of cottonwoods. A quarter of a mile from town, they hid their horses in a grove of trees on the Pecos and took a position in the old peach orchard at the north edge of the village. Just across the road from their place of concealment stood the old military hospital in which Manuela Bowdre had her home. A full moon was in the sky, making the landscape as bright as day, but the peach trees were in full leaf, and in the deep shadows they were safe from chance discovery. For two hours they remained there silently watching the Bowdre door like three cats at a mouse hole. But no sign of the Kid rewarded their patience. It was hard on midnight when they decided to abandon their vigil. &quot;I had no faith in this trip in the first place,&quot; growled Garrett. &quot;I'm willing to bet the Kid ain't in Fort Sumner and never has been here since his escape. We'll go back to our horses now and start for Roswell. Best to put a little distance between us and Fort Sumner before daybreak.&quot;
&quot;Let's go see Pete Maxwell before we give it up,&quot;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/292</title>
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      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;insisted Poe doggedly. &quot;If the Kid's in Fort Sumner or has been here, he'll know beyond a doubt. Maybe he'll tell us.&quot; &quot;Maybe,&quot; replied Garrett dubiously, &quot;and maybe he won't. If the Kid happened to hear Maxwell had be- trayed him, Pete would be due to start on a long journey. But just to satisfy you, Poe, we'll see him.&quot; They crossed the road, white with moonlight, slipped into the sleeping town, stole noiselessly through the streets in the shadows of t...</comment>
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278 THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;insisted Poe doggedly. &quot;If the Kid's in Fort Sumner or has been here, he'll know beyond a doubt. Maybe he'll tell us.&quot; &quot;Maybe,&quot; replied Garrett dubiously, &quot;and maybe he won't. If the Kid happened to hear Maxwell had be-
trayed him, Pete would be due to start on a long journey.
But just to satisfy you, Poe, we'll see him.&quot;
They crossed the road, white with moonlight, slipped
into the sleeping town, stole noiselessly through the streets
in the shadows of the houses, and came out into the broad
open space that had once been the parade ground of the
army post. Before them stood the Maxwell home.
Once used as officers' quarters, it was a large two-story
building containing twenty rooms, its lower walls of adobe
bricks sustaining a frame superstructure with a row of
dormer windows along its gable roof opening from the
upper rooms. A wide sheltered veranda ran across its
front and along the north and south sides. It faced east
on the old parade ground, from which it was separated by
a low picket fence that extended fifty feet to the south to
a row of adobe houses along the side yard. A cannon,
relic of old soldier days, stood outside the fence near the
northeast corner. At the southeast corner beside the
front gate grew a tall cottonwood tree.
&quot;Pete Maxwell's sleeping room is right there in the
southeast corner of the house,&quot; said Garrett when they
reached the gate. &quot;You fellows wait here outside and
I'll go in and have a talk with him.”
Garrett stepped across the porch and entered the door
of Maxwell's room which, on this warm summer night,
had been left open. Poe sat down on the edge of the porch
at the gateway. McKinney squatted down on his heels,
cowboy fashion, just outside the picket fence and rolled&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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278 THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;insisted Poe doggedly. &quot;If the Kid's in Fort Sumner or has been here, he'll know beyond a doubt. Maybe he'll tell us.&quot; &quot;Maybe,&quot; replied Garrett dubiously, &quot;and maybe he won't. If the Kid happened to hear Maxwell had betrayed him, Pete would be due to start on a long journey. But just to satisfy you, Poe, we'll see him.&quot;
They crossed the road, white with moonlight, slipped into the sleeping town, stole noiselessly through the streets in the shadows of the houses, and came out into the broad
open space that had once been the parade ground of the
army post. Before them stood the Maxwell home.
Once used as officers' quarters, it was a large two-story
building containing twenty rooms, its lower walls of adobe
bricks sustaining a frame superstructure with a row of
dormer windows along its gable roof opening from the
upper rooms. A wide sheltered veranda ran across its
front and along the north and south sides. It faced east
on the old parade ground, from which it was separated by
a low picket fence that extended fifty feet to the south to
a row of adobe houses along the side yard. A cannon,
relic of old soldier days, stood outside the fence near the
northeast corner. At the southeast corner beside the
front gate grew a tall cottonwood tree.
&quot;Pete Maxwell's sleeping room is right there in the
southeast corner of the house,&quot; said Garrett when they
reached the gate. &quot;You fellows wait here outside and
I'll go in and have a talk with him.”
Garrett stepped across the porch and entered the door
of Maxwell's room which, on this warm summer night,
had been left open. Poe sat down on the edge of the porch
at the gateway. McKinney squatted down on his heels,
cowboy fashion, just outside the picket fence and rolled&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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278 THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;insisted Poe doggedly. &quot;If the Kid's in Fort Sumner or has been here, he'll know beyond a doubt. Maybe he'll tell us.&quot; &quot;Maybe,&quot; replied Garrett dubiously, &quot;and maybe he won't. If the Kid happened to hear Maxwell had betrayed him, Pete would be due to start on a long journey. But just to satisfy you, Poe, we'll see him.&quot;
They crossed the road, white with moonlight, slipped into the sleeping town, stole noiselessly through the streets in the shadows of the houses, and came out into the broad open space that had once been the parade ground of the army post. Before them stood the Maxwell home. Once used as officers' quarters, it was a large two-story
building containing twenty rooms, its lower walls of adobe
bricks sustaining a frame superstructure with a row of
dormer windows along its gable roof opening from the
upper rooms. A wide sheltered veranda ran across its
front and along the north and south sides. It faced east
on the old parade ground, from which it was separated by
a low picket fence that extended fifty feet to the south to
a row of adobe houses along the side yard. A cannon,
relic of old soldier days, stood outside the fence near the
northeast corner. At the southeast corner beside the
front gate grew a tall cottonwood tree.
&quot;Pete Maxwell's sleeping room is right there in the
southeast corner of the house,&quot; said Garrett when they
reached the gate. &quot;You fellows wait here outside and
I'll go in and have a talk with him.”
Garrett stepped across the porch and entered the door
of Maxwell's room which, on this warm summer night,
had been left open. Poe sat down on the edge of the porch
at the gateway. McKinney squatted down on his heels,
cowboy fashion, just outside the picket fence and rolled&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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278 THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;insisted Poe doggedly. &quot;If the Kid's in Fort Sumner or has been here, he'll know beyond a doubt. Maybe he'll tell us.&quot; &quot;Maybe,&quot; replied Garrett dubiously, &quot;and maybe he won't. If the Kid happened to hear Maxwell had betrayed him, Pete would be due to start on a long journey. But just to satisfy you, Poe, we'll see him.&quot;
They crossed the road, white with moonlight, slipped into the sleeping town, stole noiselessly through the streets in the shadows of the houses, and came out into the broad open space that had once been the parade ground of the army post. Before them stood the Maxwell home. Once used as officers' quarters, it was a large two-story
building containing twenty rooms, its lower walls of adobe bricks sustaining a frame superstructure with a row of dormer windows along its gable roof opening from the upper rooms. A wide sheltered veranda ran across its front and along the north and south sides. It faced east on the old parade ground, from which it was separated by a low picket fence that extended fifty feet to the south to
a row of adobe houses along the side yard. A cannon,
relic of old soldier days, stood outside the fence near the
northeast corner. At the southeast corner beside the
front gate grew a tall cottonwood tree.
&quot;Pete Maxwell's sleeping room is right there in the
southeast corner of the house,&quot; said Garrett when they
reached the gate. &quot;You fellows wait here outside and
I'll go in and have a talk with him.”
Garrett stepped across the porch and entered the door
of Maxwell's room which, on this warm summer night,
had been left open. Poe sat down on the edge of the porch
at the gateway. McKinney squatted down on his heels,
cowboy fashion, just outside the picket fence and rolled&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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278 THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;insisted Poe doggedly. &quot;If the Kid's in Fort Sumner or has been here, he'll know beyond a doubt. Maybe he'll tell us.&quot; &quot;Maybe,&quot; replied Garrett dubiously, &quot;and maybe he won't. If the Kid happened to hear Maxwell had betrayed him, Pete would be due to start on a long journey. But just to satisfy you, Poe, we'll see him.&quot;
They crossed the road, white with moonlight, slipped into the sleeping town, stole noiselessly through the streets in the shadows of the houses, and came out into the broad open space that had once been the parade ground of the army post. Before them stood the Maxwell home. Once used as officers' quarters, it was a large two-story
building containing twenty rooms, its lower walls of adobe bricks sustaining a frame superstructure with a row of dormer windows along its gable roof opening from the upper rooms. A wide sheltered veranda ran across its front and along the north and south sides. It faced east on the old parade ground, from which it was separated by a low picket fence that extended fifty feet to the south to a row of adobe houses along the side yard. A cannon, relic of old soldier days, stood outside the fence near the northeast corner. At the southeast corner beside the
front gate grew a tall cottonwood tree. &quot;Pete Maxwell's sleeping room is right there in the
southeast corner of the house,&quot; said Garrett when they
reached the gate. &quot;You fellows wait here outside and
I'll go in and have a talk with him.”
Garrett stepped across the porch and entered the door
of Maxwell's room which, on this warm summer night,
had been left open. Poe sat down on the edge of the porch
at the gateway. McKinney squatted down on his heels,
cowboy fashion, just outside the picket fence and rolled&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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278 THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID&lt;/noinclude&gt;insisted Poe doggedly. &quot;If the Kid's in Fort Sumner or has been here, he'll know beyond a doubt. Maybe he'll tell us.&quot; &quot;Maybe,&quot; replied Garrett dubiously, &quot;and maybe he won't. If the Kid happened to hear Maxwell had betrayed him, Pete would be due to start on a long journey. But just to satisfy you, Poe, we'll see him.&quot;
They crossed the road, white with moonlight, slipped into the sleeping town, stole noiselessly through the streets in the shadows of the houses, and came out into the broad open space that had once been the parade ground of the army post. Before them stood the Maxwell home. Once used as officers' quarters, it was a large two-story
building containing twenty rooms, its lower walls of adobe bricks sustaining a frame superstructure with a row of dormer windows along its gable roof opening from the upper rooms. A wide sheltered veranda ran across its front and along the north and south sides. It faced east on the old parade ground, from which it was separated by a low picket fence that extended fifty feet to the south to a row of adobe houses along the side yard. A cannon, relic of old soldier days, stood outside the fence near the northeast corner. At the southeast corner beside the
front gate grew a tall cottonwood tree. &quot;Pete Maxwell's sleeping room is right there in the southeast corner of the house,&quot; said Garrett when they reached the gate. &quot;You fellows wait here outside and I'll go in and have a talk with him.”
Garrett stepped across the porch and entered the door of Maxwell's room which, on this warm summer night, had been left open. Poe sat down on the edge of the porch
at the gateway. McKinney squatted down on his heels, cowboy fashion, just outside the picket fence and rolled&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:Saga of Billy the Kid.djvu/293</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847968</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Not proofread */ Created page with &quot;himself a cigarette. The moon was riding westward from the zenith and the two men, sitting in silence, merged into the dark, heavy shadows falling eastward from the building. Maxwell's room was in deep darkness. Garrett paused just inside the door for a moment until his eyes grew accustomed to the obscurity. Then, groping his way to a chair at the head of the bed, he sat down and gently roused Maxwell. The room was twenty feet square. There were three wi...</comment>
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THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
279&lt;/noinclude&gt;himself a cigarette. The moon was riding westward from the zenith and the two men, sitting in silence, merged into the dark, heavy shadows falling eastward from the building. Maxwell's room was in deep darkness. Garrett paused just inside the door for a moment until his eyes grew
accustomed to the obscurity. Then, groping his way to
a chair at the head of the bed, he sat down and gently
roused Maxwell.
The room was twenty feet square. There were three
windows, two in the front and one in the south wall near
the door, but the roof of the porch prevented even a faint
reflection of moonlight from entering. Maxwell's bed
stood against the south wall, its foot near the door, its
head against the front wall. There was a bureau in the
northwest corner, a fireplace in the west wall, and a wash-
stand between the fireplace and the door. The floor was
carpeted.
Maxwell was surprised when he awoke from a deep
sleep and saw Garrett sitting at his bedside. He rubbed
his eyes.
&quot;Oh, hello, Pat,&quot; he mumbled. &quot;Qué hace Usted aquí?&quot;
&quot;About the Kid, Pete,&quot; said Garrett in Spanish.
&quot;I've had word-
&quot;
A voice sounded outside-a voice that Garrett knew.
He cut short his words. He sat in tense, sudden silence,
listening.
When Garrett and his deputies stole into Fort Sumner
from the peach orchard, Billy the Kid was in the house
of Saval Gutierrez, Pat Garrett's brother-in-law, which
stood at the south edge of the Maxwell side yard not more
than fifty feet from the Maxwell home. He had come in
only a few minutes before from a sheep ranch several&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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        <id>3176481</id>
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      <text bytes="1638" sha1="pgmyed8rdcwyjyl4yb9aq30e1l4wqxh" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|279|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|279}}
THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
279&lt;/noinclude&gt;himself a cigarette. The moon was riding westward from the zenith and the two men, sitting in silence, merged into the dark, heavy shadows falling eastward from the building. Maxwell's room was in deep darkness. Garrett paused just inside the door for a moment until his eyes grew accustomed to the obscurity. Then, groping his way to a chair at the head of the bed, he sat down and gently
roused Maxwell. The room was twenty feet square. There were three
windows, two in the front and one in the south wall near
the door, but the roof of the porch prevented even a faint
reflection of moonlight from entering. Maxwell's bed
stood against the south wall, its foot near the door, its
head against the front wall. There was a bureau in the
northwest corner, a fireplace in the west wall, and a wash-
stand between the fireplace and the door. The floor was
carpeted.
Maxwell was surprised when he awoke from a deep
sleep and saw Garrett sitting at his bedside. He rubbed
his eyes.
&quot;Oh, hello, Pat,&quot; he mumbled. &quot;Qué hace Usted aquí?&quot;
&quot;About the Kid, Pete,&quot; said Garrett in Spanish.
&quot;I've had word-
&quot;
A voice sounded outside-a voice that Garrett knew.
He cut short his words. He sat in tense, sudden silence,
listening.
When Garrett and his deputies stole into Fort Sumner
from the peach orchard, Billy the Kid was in the house
of Saval Gutierrez, Pat Garrett's brother-in-law, which
stood at the south edge of the Maxwell side yard not more
than fifty feet from the Maxwell home. He had come in
only a few minutes before from a sheep ranch several&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pgmyed8rdcwyjyl4yb9aq30e1l4wqxh</sha1>
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      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:47:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fatoustrawally</username>
        <id>3176481</id>
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      <text bytes="1638" sha1="qb0waekr4f4p7uaub7g6330imzkfaj3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|279|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|279}}
THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
279&lt;/noinclude&gt;himself a cigarette. The moon was riding westward from the zenith and the two men, sitting in silence, merged into the dark, heavy shadows falling eastward from the building. Maxwell's room was in deep darkness. Garrett paused just inside the door for a moment until his eyes grew accustomed to the obscurity. Then, groping his way to a chair at the head of the bed, he sat down and gently
roused Maxwell. The room was twenty feet square. There were three windows, two in the front and one in the south wall near the door, but the roof of the porch prevented even a faint reflection of moonlight from entering. Maxwell's bed
stood against the south wall, its foot near the door, its
head against the front wall. There was a bureau in the
northwest corner, a fireplace in the west wall, and a wash-
stand between the fireplace and the door. The floor was
carpeted.
Maxwell was surprised when he awoke from a deep
sleep and saw Garrett sitting at his bedside. He rubbed
his eyes.
&quot;Oh, hello, Pat,&quot; he mumbled. &quot;Qué hace Usted aquí?&quot;
&quot;About the Kid, Pete,&quot; said Garrett in Spanish.
&quot;I've had word-
&quot;
A voice sounded outside-a voice that Garrett knew.
He cut short his words. He sat in tense, sudden silence,
listening.
When Garrett and his deputies stole into Fort Sumner
from the peach orchard, Billy the Kid was in the house
of Saval Gutierrez, Pat Garrett's brother-in-law, which
stood at the south edge of the Maxwell side yard not more
than fifty feet from the Maxwell home. He had come in
only a few minutes before from a sheep ranch several&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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        <id>3176481</id>
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      <text bytes="1636" sha1="a4i02oqlkkzxnqdo3zxm2uz90e8hpkk" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|279|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|279}}
THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
279&lt;/noinclude&gt;himself a cigarette. The moon was riding westward from the zenith and the two men, sitting in silence, merged into the dark, heavy shadows falling eastward from the building. Maxwell's room was in deep darkness. Garrett paused just inside the door for a moment until his eyes grew accustomed to the obscurity. Then, groping his way to a chair at the head of the bed, he sat down and gently roused Maxwell. The room was twenty feet square. There were three windows, two in the front and one in the south wall near the door, but the roof of the porch prevented even a faint reflection of moonlight from entering. Maxwell's bed stood against the south wall, its foot near the door, its head against the front wall. There was a bureau in the
northwest corner, a fireplace in the west wall, and a washstand between the fireplace and the door. The floor was carpeted. Maxwell was surprised when he awoke from a deep
sleep and saw Garrett sitting at his bedside. He rubbed
his eyes.
&quot;Oh, hello, Pat,&quot; he mumbled. &quot;Qué hace Usted aquí?&quot;
&quot;About the Kid, Pete,&quot; said Garrett in Spanish.
&quot;I've had word-
&quot;
A voice sounded outside-a voice that Garrett knew.
He cut short his words. He sat in tense, sudden silence,
listening.
When Garrett and his deputies stole into Fort Sumner
from the peach orchard, Billy the Kid was in the house
of Saval Gutierrez, Pat Garrett's brother-in-law, which
stood at the south edge of the Maxwell side yard not more
than fifty feet from the Maxwell home. He had come in
only a few minutes before from a sheep ranch several&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
279&lt;/noinclude&gt;himself a cigarette. The moon was riding westward from the zenith and the two men, sitting in silence, merged into the dark, heavy shadows falling eastward from the building. Maxwell's room was in deep darkness. Garrett paused just inside the door for a moment until his eyes grew accustomed to the obscurity. Then, groping his way to a chair at the head of the bed, he sat down and gently roused Maxwell. The room was twenty feet square. There were three windows, two in the front and one in the south wall near the door, but the roof of the porch prevented even a faint reflection of moonlight from entering. Maxwell's bed stood against the south wall, its foot near the door, its head against the front wall. There was a bureau in the
northwest corner, a fireplace in the west wall, and a washstand between the fireplace and the door. The floor was carpeted. Maxwell was surprised when he awoke from a deep sleep and saw Garrett sitting at his bedside. He rubbed his eyes. &quot;Oh, hello, Pat,&quot; he mumbled. &quot;Qué hace Usted aquí?&quot; &quot;About the Kid, Pete,&quot; said Garrett in Spanish. &quot;I've had word-&quot;
A voice sounded outside-a voice that Garrett knew. He cut short his words. He sat in tense, sudden silence,
listening.
When Garrett and his deputies stole into Fort Sumner
from the peach orchard, Billy the Kid was in the house
of Saval Gutierrez, Pat Garrett's brother-in-law, which
stood at the south edge of the Maxwell side yard not more
than fifty feet from the Maxwell home. He had come in
only a few minutes before from a sheep ranch several&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <text bytes="1635" sha1="rci0stej2lg73ijywd91hfnxvunt1hl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Fatoustrawally&quot; /&gt;{{rvh2|279|&lt;--!chapter title--&gt;|THE SAGA OF BILLY THE KID|279}}
THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
279&lt;/noinclude&gt;himself a cigarette. The moon was riding westward from the zenith and the two men, sitting in silence, merged into the dark, heavy shadows falling eastward from the building. Maxwell's room was in deep darkness. Garrett paused just inside the door for a moment until his eyes grew accustomed to the obscurity. Then, groping his way to a chair at the head of the bed, he sat down and gently roused Maxwell. The room was twenty feet square. There were three windows, two in the front and one in the south wall near the door, but the roof of the porch prevented even a faint reflection of moonlight from entering. Maxwell's bed stood against the south wall, its foot near the door, its head against the front wall. There was a bureau in the
northwest corner, a fireplace in the west wall, and a washstand between the fireplace and the door. The floor was carpeted. Maxwell was surprised when he awoke from a deep sleep and saw Garrett sitting at his bedside. He rubbed his eyes. &quot;Oh, hello, Pat,&quot; he mumbled. &quot;Qué hace Usted aquí?&quot; &quot;About the Kid, Pete,&quot; said Garrett in Spanish. &quot;I've had word-&quot;
A voice sounded outside-a voice that Garrett knew. He cut short his words. He sat in tense, sudden silence, listening. When Garrett and his deputies stole into Fort Sumner from the peach orchard, Billy the Kid was in the house of Saval Gutierrez, Pat Garrett's brother-in-law, which stood at the south edge of the Maxwell side yard not more than fifty feet from the Maxwell home. He had come in
only a few minutes before from a sheep ranch several&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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THE RENDEZVOUS WITH FATE
279&lt;/noinclude&gt;himself a cigarette. The moon was riding westward from the zenith and the two men, sitting in silence, merged into the dark, heavy shadows falling eastward from the building. Maxwell's room was in deep darkness. Garrett paused just inside the door for a moment until his eyes grew accustomed to the obscurity. Then, groping his way to a chair at the head of the bed, he sat down and gently roused Maxwell. The room was twenty feet square. There were three windows, two in the front and one in the south wall near the door, but the roof of the porch prevented even a faint reflection of moonlight from entering. Maxwell's bed stood against the south wall, its foot near the door, its head against the front wall. There was a bureau in the
northwest corner, a fireplace in the west wall, and a washstand between the fireplace and the door. The floor was carpeted. Maxwell was surprised when he awoke from a deep sleep and saw Garrett sitting at his bedside. He rubbed his eyes. &quot;Oh, hello, Pat,&quot; he mumbled. &quot;Qué hace Usted aquí?&quot; &quot;About the Kid, Pete,&quot; said Garrett in Spanish. &quot;I've had word-&quot;
A voice sounded outside-a voice that Garrett knew. He cut short his words. He sat in tense, sudden silence, listening. When Garrett and his deputies stole into Fort Sumner from the peach orchard, Billy the Kid was in the house of Saval Gutierrez, Pat Garrett's brother-in-law, which stood at the south edge of the Maxwell side yard not more than fifty feet from the Maxwell home. He had come in only a few minutes before from a sheep ranch several&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Page:The Statutes of the Realm Vol 9 (1708-13).pdf/14</title>
    <ns>104</ns>
    <id>4847969</id>
    <revision>
      <id>15133866</id>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:52:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Technolalia</username>
        <id>179271</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Create page.</comment>
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      <text bytes="2432" sha1="i6g8hpldyhxrapcremg5g7qfp3g576m" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Technolalia&quot; /&gt;( X )&lt;/noinclude&gt;Curonoiocscar TaBie of Acts passed in the Reign of Queen Anne.

DATE. TITLE or DESCRIPTION or tas ACT.

NUMBER

Of the On the Of the

A.D.

1709.

An. 8.

Diaiticed iby OK gle

IN CHANCERY.

z

&quot;) An A preserving and maintaining the
i it near Pl in the County of Devon and for cleansing

brie. the commonly called Sutton-Pool lying in Plymouth
’ This is Chapter VIII. in the Common printed Editions.
(&quot;) An Act for laying certain Duties upon Candles and certain Rates upon

Monies to be with Clerks and Apprentices towards raising Her Majesties
He somal 4 Spat = Spon gua ee pa dig

' This is Chapter EX, in the Common printed Editions.

(‘) An Act to continue the Act for punishing Mutiny and Desertion and for
the better Payment of the Army and Quarters.

' This is Chapter X. in the Common printed Editions.

*) An Act to explain so much of the Act for prohibiting the of

“) Seal Vises Rowed locskt sna.Blecch vant Lom ines Spiri

Worts and Wash drawn from malted Corn by which Act the said Com-
modities are admitted to be carried from fale

the Uses of the British
* This is Chapter XI. in the Common printed Editions.

cy
SS ee ad ee eee Sn

* from 0.

*) An Act for making a convenient Dock or Bason at Leverpoole for the
Cede of ok bes tale otal be dks tld Bert of Lemos

' This is Chapter XII. in the Common printed Editions.

An Act for ing the Ways between the House commonly called The
les Home nthe Bi f Ske Galngen te Cty of Backs
and the Town of Northampton

(‘) An Act for continuing Part of the Duties wy
and granting new Duties upon Houses Windows or more to
raise the Sum of Fifteen hundred thousand Way of a Lottery for
the Service of the Year One thousand seven hundred and ten.

&quot; This is Chapter IV’. in the Common printed Editions.

*) An Act for employing the Manufacturers by encouraging the Consumpti
C1 Ain sit cad Mone: Yar : a

' This is Chupter VI. in the Common printed Editions.
*) An Act for granting to Her Majesty new Duties of Excise and several
om Commodi ‘and for a youby Sond? theby ond: by
Ways and Means to raise Nine hi thousand Pounds by Sale of
re ee et ee ae et

Coals Culm and Cynders

* This is Chapter VI. in the Common printed Editions.

to continue the Act for Her Maj Land-Forces and
en eee
ten,

* This is Chapter V. in the Common printed Editions.

Original fron
PENN STAT

I,

Il.

Iv.

mx.

p+ 21

19

20

23

180

186

197

197

198

202

205

217

218

233&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
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      <parentid>15133866</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-06-14T11:52:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Technolalia</username>
        <id>179271</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>A few corrections</comment>
      <origin>15133867</origin>
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      <text bytes="2409" sha1="qjny2xosgf2ery7uv98b1t5yi1es5gq" xml:space="preserve">&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;pagequality level=&quot;1&quot; user=&quot;Technolalia&quot; /&gt;( X )&lt;/noinclude&gt;Chronological Table of Acts passed in the Reign of Queen Anne.

DATE. TITLE or DESCRIPTION or tas ACT. NUMBER

Of the On the Of the

A.D.

1709.

An. 8.

IN CHANCERY.

z

&quot;) An A preserving and maintaining the
i it near Pl in the County of Devon and for cleansing

brie. the commonly called Sutton-Pool lying in Plymouth
’ This is Chapter VIII. in the Common printed Editions.
(&quot;) An Act for laying certain Duties upon Candles and certain Rates upon

Monies to be with Clerks and Apprentices towards raising Her Majesties
He somal 4 Spat = Spon gua ee pa dig

' This is Chapter EX, in the Common printed Editions.

(‘) An Act to continue the Act for punishing Mutiny and Desertion and for
the better Payment of the Army and Quarters.

' This is Chapter X. in the Common printed Editions.

*) An Act to explain so much of the Act for prohibiting the of

“) Seal Vises Rowed locskt sna.Blecch vant Lom ines Spiri

Worts and Wash drawn from malted Corn by which Act the said Com-
modities are admitted to be carried from fale

the Uses of the British
* This is Chapter XI. in the Common printed Editions.

cy
SS ee ad ee eee Sn

* from 0.

*) An Act for making a convenient Dock or Bason at Leverpoole for the
Cede of ok bes tale otal be dks tld Bert of Lemos

' This is Chapter XII. in the Common printed Editions.

An Act for ing the Ways between the House commonly called The
les Home nthe Bi f Ske Galngen te Cty of Backs
and the Town of Northampton

(‘) An Act for continuing Part of the Duties wy
and granting new Duties upon Houses Windows or more to
raise the Sum of Fifteen hundred thousand Way of a Lottery for
the Service of the Year One thousand seven hundred and ten.

&quot; This is Chapter IV’. in the Common printed Editions.

*) An Act for employing the Manufacturers by encouraging the Consumpti
C1 Ain sit cad Mone: Yar : a

' This is Chupter VI. in the Common printed Editions.
*) An Act for granting to Her Majesty new Duties of Excise and several
om Commodi ‘and for a youby Sond? theby ond: by
Ways and Means to raise Nine hi thousand Pounds by Sale of
re ee et ee ae et

Coals Culm and Cynders

* This is Chapter VI. in the Common printed Editions.

to continue the Act for Her Maj Land-Forces and
en eee
ten,

* This is Chapter V. in the Common printed Editions.

Original fron
PENN STAT

I,

Il.

Iv.

mx.

p+ 21

19

20

23

180

186

197

197

198

202

205

217

218

233&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qjny2xosgf2ery7uv98b1t5yi1es5gq</sha1>
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  </page>
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